1 2011-04-02 00:00:12 <phantomcircuit> idnar, although yes a local dns server would be the ultimate solution
2 2011-04-02 00:00:41 <lfm> I thot osome hosts files supported an alias feature
3 2011-04-02 00:01:34 <phantomcircuit> none that i know of
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8 2011-04-02 00:11:00 <lianj> idnar: you can launch the client directly and skip mc's login
9 2011-04-02 00:11:21 <idnar> lianj: tell gjs278, not me; I'm a legitimate minecraft owner :P
10 2011-04-02 00:12:03 <lianj> how boring
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30 2011-04-02 00:51:18 <jgarzik> So, difficulty-1 target is ((1 << 224) - 1), as presented by pool servers. If target changes to ((1 << 216) - 1), how many hash/sec is each share worth?
31 2011-04-02 00:51:49 <jgarzik> I am math-stupid when it comes to difficulty. Is that... 2**(32+8) hashes?
32 2011-04-02 00:52:01 <ArtForz> yea
33 2011-04-02 00:52:23 <jgarzik> tnx
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39 2011-04-02 01:09:11 <xenon481> Receiving 502 Bad Gateway on slush's website.
40 2011-04-02 01:09:15 <xenon481> mining works fine.
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45 2011-04-02 01:13:55 <luke-jr> http://tauday.com/testimonial
46 2011-04-02 01:20:14 gasteve_ has joined
47 2011-04-02 01:20:15 <jgarzik> naughty, naughty gateway.
48 2011-04-02 01:21:04 <gasteve_> What's going on w slush's pool?
49 2011-04-02 01:21:59 <[Tycho]> Well, at least HTTP 502 is not 418
50 2011-04-02 01:23:22 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: given any thought to increasing difficult?
51 2011-04-02 01:23:25 <jgarzik> difficulty?
52 2011-04-02 01:23:29 <[Tycho]> For miners ?
53 2011-04-02 01:23:32 <jgarzik> yeah
54 2011-04-02 01:23:35 <[Tycho]> No.
55 2011-04-02 01:23:53 <[Tycho]> There is already support for time rolling in poclbm, BTW
56 2011-04-02 01:24:15 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
57 2011-04-02 01:25:36 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: some GPU miners find H==0 so easily, at diff-1, that it chews some CPU
58 2011-04-02 01:25:37 toffoo has quit ()
59 2011-04-02 01:26:30 <[Tycho]> Do you think so ? The fastest one can find just a few shares in 1 minute.
60 2011-04-02 01:28:19 <ArtForz> huh?
61 2011-04-02 01:28:24 toffoo has joined
62 2011-04-02 01:28:41 <jgarzik> that is the report I have, from a provider
63 2011-04-02 01:29:04 <ArtForz> even a single 5970 finds a share every ~10 sec
64 2011-04-02 01:29:21 DrQ has joined
65 2011-04-02 01:29:21 <[Tycho]> Usually i got 4-8 per minute.
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71 2011-04-02 01:35:40 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calcd 600000 1
72 2011-04-02 01:35:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 600000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 7 seconds
73 2011-04-02 01:35:43 <phantomcircuit> yeah
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75 2011-04-02 01:38:15 <gasteve> so, has anyone heard from slush? I had some friends over, having a few drinks ...wanted to show them some graphs from slush's pool and the mining hardward ...no dice
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82 2011-04-02 01:52:36 <AAA_awright> phantomcircuit: Is it really that hard to look up the associated IP for the domain to be redirecteD?
83 2011-04-02 01:53:06 <luke-jr> jgarzik: hey, my best buddy super-intelligent SATA hackerâ¦
84 2011-04-02 01:53:20 <luke-jr> jgarzik: if a hard drive overheats, how likely is it that replacing the PCB will fix it? <.<
85 2011-04-02 01:53:47 <phantomcircuit> AAA_awright, yes and no, it's trivial to do it, it's hard to do it and avoid recursion and shit
86 2011-04-02 01:54:07 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, pretty much 0
87 2011-04-02 01:54:19 <jgarzik> luke-jr: heh, the platters inside are doing nutty things that make physicists shiver...
88 2011-04-02 01:54:25 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, iirc modern drivers use flash on the pcb to store info about the drive
89 2011-04-02 01:54:26 <luke-jr> :|
90 2011-04-02 01:54:44 <phantomcircuit> not to mention you'd need to be 1000% sure it was the right pcb
91 2011-04-02 01:54:46 <luke-jr> jgarzik: even if it's "just" a click of death?
92 2011-04-02 01:54:57 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: someone's selling one from the exact same model for $40
93 2011-04-02 01:55:06 <luke-jr> same chip and everything
94 2011-04-02 01:55:19 <jgarzik> luke-jr: well, heat can fry any component on a drive. might be the motor, the arm, the platter, the PCB, ...
95 2011-04-02 01:55:42 <luke-jr> click means it isn't the motor, I think?
96 2011-04-02 01:55:51 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, you can't just replace the PCB of modern HDD.
97 2011-04-02 01:56:03 <luke-jr> it's from 2005 at the newest
98 2011-04-02 01:56:05 <jgarzik> well, the factory can
99 2011-04-02 01:56:17 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, there are some very important setings in controller's memory.
100 2011-04-02 01:56:18 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, if you have a clean room, you might be able to do it
101 2011-04-02 01:56:23 <phantomcircuit> maybe
102 2011-04-02 01:56:30 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I can replace the PCB w/o a clean room
103 2011-04-02 01:56:40 <luke-jr> it's just screwed on
104 2011-04-02 01:56:41 <phantomcircuit> sure but it wont work
105 2011-04-02 01:56:42 <phantomcircuit> :P
106 2011-04-02 01:56:44 <[Tycho]> It won't just work.
107 2011-04-02 01:56:52 <luke-jr> what difference would a clean room make to PCB swapping?
108 2011-04-02 01:57:06 <[Tycho]> This has nothing to do with a clean room.
109 2011-04-02 01:57:19 subpar has joined
110 2011-04-02 01:57:23 <[Tycho]> It was only possible with old drives, may be around 1 Gb or so on.
111 2011-04-02 01:57:25 aoeuueoa has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
112 2011-04-02 01:57:49 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], it's still possible
113 2011-04-02 01:58:01 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: the guy at DTI Data which is asking $600 for data recovery said it *might* workâ¦
114 2011-04-02 01:58:03 <phantomcircuit> you just have to copy the data on the pcb
115 2011-04-02 01:58:37 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, $600 is pretty much :)
116 2011-04-02 01:58:48 <phantomcircuit> that's cheap for hdd data recovery actually
117 2011-04-02 01:58:57 <phantomcircuit> last i checked it was like 4 grand
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119 2011-04-02 01:59:42 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: where is this data stored? I typed up all the info on the 4 big chips
120 2011-04-02 02:00:05 <luke-jr> WDC, SAMSUNG, ST, and M
121 2011-04-02 02:00:14 <luke-jr> SAMSUNG seems to be SDRAM
122 2011-04-02 02:01:04 <lfm> samsung comes with viruses preinstalled :-)
123 2011-04-02 02:01:10 <luke-jr> lfm: lies
124 2011-04-02 02:01:27 <luke-jr> WDC, I presume is just a controller
125 2011-04-02 02:01:34 <luke-jr> M seems to be an "IC"
126 2011-04-02 02:01:53 <luke-jr> can't find any info on the ST
127 2011-04-02 02:05:00 Minert has joined
128 2011-04-02 02:08:06 <[Tycho]> It may me something small like i2c flash memory.
129 2011-04-02 02:09:22 <luke-jr> x.x
130 2011-04-02 02:09:27 <luke-jr> so when do I panic?
131 2011-04-02 02:09:54 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, do you 100% need what's on the disk?
132 2011-04-02 02:10:15 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: that's half the problem⦠NFC
133 2011-04-02 02:10:35 <luke-jr> I only put it online to make a backup ;)
134 2011-04-02 02:10:40 <phantomcircuit> lol
135 2011-04-02 02:10:44 <luke-jr> oh, and look at family photos
136 2011-04-02 02:11:50 <luke-jr> however, I'm 90% sure I found those same photos on my old server, which they had been backed up from
137 2011-04-02 02:11:52 <luke-jr> <><
138 2011-04-02 02:11:54 <luke-jr> <.<*
139 2011-04-02 02:12:10 <luke-jr> never could get rid of the old PowerEdge 6400, thank GOd
140 2011-04-02 02:19:06 Minert has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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143 2011-04-02 02:24:56 <lfm> youd use a clean room to swap platters or clen the surface but that would not seem to be feasable on modern drives
144 2011-04-02 02:25:46 <JFK911> uh
145 2011-04-02 02:25:52 <JFK911> if you think so, go ahead
146 2011-04-02 02:25:55 <JFK911> i'll tell you why you'll fail
147 2011-04-02 02:26:03 <JFK911> 1. inter-platter alignment
148 2011-04-02 02:26:21 <JFK911> 2. how the FK are you gonna remove the head stack without damaging the heads (they will touch each other and stick together)
149 2011-04-02 02:26:59 <JFK911> 3. the pivot arm on some are fixed by a top lid screw - open the drive and you'll spend weeks aligning it if you ever get it to work
150 2011-04-02 02:27:20 <MagicalTux> don't forget fucking powerful magnets
151 2011-04-02 02:27:32 <MagicalTux> if you stick them by accident, you're finished :D
152 2011-04-02 02:28:01 <JFK911> also were people talking about firmware
153 2011-04-02 02:28:09 <JFK911> that's bootstrapped off the platters
154 2011-04-02 02:28:27 <JFK911> there's a flash and an eeprom on the control board, but it's more like a bootloader with some calibration values
155 2011-04-02 02:28:46 <lfm> ya I think platter swaps are outa the dark ages, I dont know if you could ever do it since the start of "winchester tech"
156 2011-04-02 02:29:22 <JFK911> when the density was not so high it was probably easier
157 2011-04-02 02:29:31 <JFK911> guys who do this made their own clamping tools
158 2011-04-02 02:29:53 <JFK911> same with the WD top screw alignment
159 2011-04-02 02:30:02 <JFK911> and pulling heads away from platters
160 2011-04-02 02:30:02 <lfm> the "data recovery" outfits are not beyond spreading fairy tales to make themselves look good
161 2011-04-02 02:30:33 <JFK911> you can talk to some pros on hddguru.com forum
162 2011-04-02 02:30:58 <JFK911> lots of technical details leak from here
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164 2011-04-02 02:31:25 <phantomcircuit> omfg i love western medicine
165 2011-04-02 02:31:29 <phantomcircuit> allergies up the ass
166 2011-04-02 02:31:38 <phantomcircuit> one pill
167 2011-04-02 02:31:41 <phantomcircuit> all gone
168 2011-04-02 02:32:19 <JFK911> if you dont get that 'blindness' side effect that's a win
169 2011-04-02 02:32:47 <lfm> I thot the allergies were a side effect of other drugs
170 2011-04-02 02:33:03 <JFK911> or gluten
171 2011-04-02 02:35:08 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, that's not a listed side effect!!
172 2011-04-02 02:35:31 <JFK911> it must be old medication then :)
173 2011-04-02 02:35:54 <phantomcircuit> claritin 24 hour
174 2011-04-02 02:35:57 <phantomcircuit> also
175 2011-04-02 02:35:58 <phantomcircuit> psh
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202 2011-04-02 03:51:10 isilion has joined
203 2011-04-02 03:51:56 <isilion> hello
204 2011-04-02 03:52:01 <isilion> i have a question
205 2011-04-02 03:52:23 <isilion> some days ago i came asking about making bitcoin run in a cluster
206 2011-04-02 03:53:04 <isilion> and tell too that Pirate Party -ES- accepts bitcoin donatives (someone said you could add it to some trade list)
207 2011-04-02 03:53:40 <isilion> the problem is that in our country, political parties cannot receive anonimous donatives, by law
208 2011-04-02 03:54:14 <isilion> is there any way, to make the donative non anonymous, without transferring to paypal?
209 2011-04-02 03:54:15 <isilion> or
210 2011-04-02 03:54:53 <isilion> is there any way that Pirate Party-es community could generate coins, i.e. in his own pool, without being anonymous?
211 2011-04-02 03:54:58 <tcatm> Sure, just ask them to send them an email before they donate and reply with a Bitcoin address.
212 2011-04-02 03:55:06 <isilion> is there any way that Pirate Party-es community could generate and donate coins, i.e. in his own pool, without being anonymous?
213 2011-04-02 03:55:38 <isilion> wich email address?
214 2011-04-02 03:56:19 <tcatm> to the party they want to donate to
215 2011-04-02 03:56:26 <isilion> yes
216 2011-04-02 03:56:32 <isilion> a 100% fee
217 2011-04-02 03:56:38 <isilion> for pool participants?
218 2011-04-02 03:57:13 <isilion> oh, you say..
219 2011-04-02 03:57:15 <theymos> I think you can do non-paying pools with stock Bitcoin using getwork.
220 2011-04-02 03:58:14 <isilion> you said that ppl tell the party about every donation that it was made for a concrete address, right?
221 2011-04-02 03:58:18 <isilion> much burocracy
222 2011-04-02 03:58:22 <isilion> :(
223 2011-04-02 03:58:49 <isilion> and that wouldn avoid ppl to send coins without sending the email
224 2011-04-02 03:58:54 <isilion> we would be unlegal
225 2011-04-02 03:59:06 <theymos> You can't stop people from sending you money.
226 2011-04-02 03:59:10 gjs278 has joined
227 2011-04-02 03:59:29 <isilion> the problem is *sending* as anonymous
228 2011-04-02 03:59:33 <da2ce7> what do you do if you get 100 EURO in a letter arrive?
229 2011-04-02 04:00:01 <da2ce7> but no address? do you put the Euro's in the bin?
230 2011-04-02 04:00:17 <isilion> if the letter goes personally to a political party, in our country, a identifiable remitent should be write
231 2011-04-02 04:00:40 <isilion> if not its unlegal
232 2011-04-02 04:01:30 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
233 2011-04-02 04:01:38 <isilion> if the letter goes for my name, the law says nothing
234 2011-04-02 04:01:39 <da2ce7> so if there is no remitent what do you do with the money sent to you?
235 2011-04-02 04:01:51 <da2ce7> ie to PP
236 2011-04-02 04:02:03 <isilion> it cannot be spend
237 2011-04-02 04:02:19 <noagendamarket> what is spent canot be unspent ?
238 2011-04-02 04:02:37 <da2ce7> *money goes into leagal limbo*
239 2011-04-02 04:02:42 <isilion> right
240 2011-04-02 04:02:54 <theymos> Why not just have a web form that takes people's names before sending them to MyBitcoin. MyBitcoin won't ever forward more or less than the exact amount requested, and the addresses are only usable once.
241 2011-04-02 04:03:26 <noagendamarket> 185FathxWiDeXWLFUmQp6e6mv2kzbjD7nN if someone sends you bitcoin anonymously you can send them there
242 2011-04-02 04:03:38 <noagendamarket> I promise to look after them lol
243 2011-04-02 04:03:46 <da2ce7> or even better, become a bitcoin trader... you accept donations for 'I look good' you convert it into euro then make a personal donation to the party
244 2011-04-02 04:03:50 <isilion> im just asking, so i could inform other affiliates about what to do to solve this issue
245 2011-04-02 04:03:58 <isilion> PP is very interested in bitcoin
246 2011-04-02 04:04:15 <isilion> yeah
247 2011-04-02 04:04:28 <isilion> i.e. donations forwarded to the president
248 2011-04-02 04:04:38 <da2ce7> don't don'ate to PP donate to the "isilion is sexy fund"
249 2011-04-02 04:04:38 <isilion> right?
250 2011-04-02 04:04:43 <isilion> i dunno if still legal
251 2011-04-02 04:05:05 <isilion> the other thing
252 2011-04-02 04:05:24 <isilion> we have (some of us, Pirates) interesting hardware
253 2011-04-02 04:05:37 <da2ce7> sha256 chips?
254 2011-04-02 04:05:39 <isilion> myself got a 4 nodes p4 cluster
255 2011-04-02 04:05:48 <theymos> Maybe BTC donations wouldn't even be considered money transfer. After all, the sender is just signing some particular data.
256 2011-04-02 04:05:51 <isilion> others have last generation graphics
257 2011-04-02 04:05:59 <isilion> so we would be interested in mine together
258 2011-04-02 04:06:28 <da2ce7> isilion, unless you generate professionaly. you will not make a proffit
259 2011-04-02 04:06:35 <noagendamarket> I dont think anyone runs a charity pool
260 2011-04-02 04:06:38 <isilion> theymos, ill tell that too.
261 2011-04-02 04:07:05 <isilion> what you mean 'professionally'? a video design lab with 40 computers?
262 2011-04-02 04:07:28 <noagendamarket> depends what gpu they have
263 2011-04-02 04:07:29 <da2ce7> um at least 5970's on 24x7
264 2011-04-02 04:07:36 <isilion> well
265 2011-04-02 04:07:48 <isilion> i reach 2000khashes
266 2011-04-02 04:07:58 <isilion> and some 40mhases
267 2011-04-02 04:07:58 <noagendamarket> hmm
268 2011-04-02 04:08:04 <da2ce7> OMG... I readh 1.1GHash/s
269 2011-04-02 04:08:05 <isilion> with a graphic
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271 2011-04-02 04:08:43 <isilion> (my cluster is made of servers without graphic)
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273 2011-04-02 04:09:03 <isilion> the 40mhash one has a nvidia 9600 or so
274 2011-04-02 04:09:19 <da2ce7> isilion, that is really slow, the power usesage is going to MUCH higher than the value of the bitcoins you make
275 2011-04-02 04:09:21 <[Tycho]> CPU and nVidia mining is not cake anymore
276 2011-04-02 04:09:37 <noagendamarket> ;;bc,calc 2000
277 2011-04-02 04:09:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 4 years, 36 weeks, 2 days, 11 hours, 30 minutes, and 43 seconds
278 2011-04-02 04:09:42 <noagendamarket> lol
279 2011-04-02 04:09:50 <da2ce7> you will support the bitcoin economy more by buying coins with the money you would have spent on electricity
280 2011-04-02 04:09:54 <isilion> ;;bc,calc 40000
281 2011-04-02 04:09:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 40000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 12 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 22 minutes, and 32 seconds
282 2011-04-02 04:10:21 <isilion> 12 weeks for the one with the nvidia
283 2011-04-02 04:10:32 <noagendamarket> how many in total ?
284 2011-04-02 04:10:33 <isilion> what about 10 simmilar people?
285 2011-04-02 04:11:00 <noagendamarket> ;;bc,calc 400000
286 2011-04-02 04:11:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 1 week, 1 day, 13 hours, 44 minutes, and 15 seconds
287 2011-04-02 04:11:07 <noagendamarket> so that
288 2011-04-02 04:11:14 <isilion> 1 week for the chance of 50btc?
289 2011-04-02 04:11:19 <da2ce7> yep
290 2011-04-02 04:11:21 <isilion> or halves
291 2011-04-02 04:11:24 <noagendamarket> yes
292 2011-04-02 04:11:25 <[Tycho]> Compare with ~7-10 BTC per day on a 5970
293 2011-04-02 04:11:25 <isilion> seems right
294 2011-04-02 04:11:36 <da2ce7> if you get your 10 friends, you may be able to buy a couple AMD 5970's
295 2011-04-02 04:11:45 <isilion> 5970 is..? a graphic's?
296 2011-04-02 04:11:50 <da2ce7> ya
297 2011-04-02 04:11:53 <noagendamarket> yes
298 2011-04-02 04:11:54 <theymos> You could all join an existing pool to get less BTC continuously. ,,(bc,gen 400000)
299 2011-04-02 04:11:55 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 5.83267341497 BTC per day and 0.243028058957 BTC per hour.
300 2011-04-02 04:12:00 <[Tycho]> ATI Radeon HD 5970
301 2011-04-02 04:12:13 <noagendamarket> what theymos says
302 2011-04-02 04:12:14 <isilion> theymos,
303 2011-04-02 04:12:19 <[Tycho]> Is like two 5870 on single board, but slower.
304 2011-04-02 04:12:25 <isilion> theymos, and what if we create our own pool?
305 2011-04-02 04:12:34 <isilion> or it need to be much larger?
306 2011-04-02 04:12:39 <[Tycho]> Creating pools is fun.
307 2011-04-02 04:12:40 <noagendamarket> no different
308 2011-04-02 04:12:43 <[Tycho]> I tried it :)
309 2011-04-02 04:12:54 <[Tycho]> HUGE SUCCESS
310 2011-04-02 04:13:06 <isilion> so
311 2011-04-02 04:13:09 <theymos> isilion: Same expected output, less frequent payouts.
312 2011-04-02 04:13:14 <da2ce7> Tycho, how many btc have you made? you take 3% rite?
313 2011-04-02 04:13:15 <isilion> you know your bots better than i
314 2011-04-02 04:13:30 <[Tycho]> da2ce7, yes, 3%
315 2011-04-02 04:13:30 <isilion> ok
316 2011-04-02 04:13:40 <isilion> so the best is everybody to join a pool
317 2011-04-02 04:13:56 <noagendamarket> yep
318 2011-04-02 04:13:56 <isilion> the same pool
319 2011-04-02 04:13:57 <isilion> ?
320 2011-04-02 04:13:59 <noagendamarket> or start a new one and invite people
321 2011-04-02 04:14:11 <isilion> ok
322 2011-04-02 04:14:12 <da2ce7> no, it is best if the pro miners mine, and everyone else support them by buying bitcoins.
323 2011-04-02 04:14:26 <isilion> yeah thats the idea
324 2011-04-02 04:14:26 <noagendamarket> why you woulkd want to give yourself an ulcer
325 2011-04-02 04:14:28 <theymos> A charity pool isn't a bad idea. Does any no-payout getwork proxy software exist yet?
326 2011-04-02 04:14:30 <noagendamarket> lol
327 2011-04-02 04:14:44 <noagendamarket> theymos I dont know
328 2011-04-02 04:14:53 <noagendamarket> mine for the eff lol
329 2011-04-02 04:15:04 <da2ce7> economicaly it is best people don't do charity, but put the money they would have spent on charity into buying btc.
330 2011-04-02 04:15:05 <noagendamarket> it would be like seti in a sense
331 2011-04-02 04:15:08 <isilion> ok thx guys i got the info i needed
332 2011-04-02 04:15:14 <isilion> im going to tell the others
333 2011-04-02 04:15:16 <[Tycho]> I can manually switch off payouts for you in my pool if you want to :)
334 2011-04-02 04:15:23 <da2ce7> :O
335 2011-04-02 04:15:26 <noagendamarket> lol
336 2011-04-02 04:15:29 <isilion> only one more thing
337 2011-04-02 04:15:31 docl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
338 2011-04-02 04:15:44 <isilion> you said you have a list of sites which accept BTC
339 2011-04-02 04:15:50 <isilion> what you need to add PP?
340 2011-04-02 04:15:53 <isilion> to the list?
341 2011-04-02 04:15:54 <da2ce7> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Helping_Bitcoin
342 2011-04-02 04:16:00 adlsaks has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
343 2011-04-02 04:16:08 <noagendamarket> they need a public bitcoin address
344 2011-04-02 04:16:12 <da2ce7> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
345 2011-04-02 04:16:20 <theymos> It's a wiki, so you can add yourself.
346 2011-04-02 04:16:29 <da2ce7> at the bottom of the trade site there are sites that you can donate to.
347 2011-04-02 04:16:54 <da2ce7> *note, above the sexyfur.com link(
348 2011-04-02 04:17:20 <kiba> hmm
349 2011-04-02 04:17:28 <isilion> they have
350 2011-04-02 04:17:32 <isilion> do you need it?
351 2011-04-02 04:17:36 docl has joined
352 2011-04-02 04:17:37 <kiba> creating a whole thread about Nefario's bad communnication thread seems to me to be a bad idea
353 2011-04-02 04:17:39 <isilion> im looking for..
354 2011-04-02 04:18:10 sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
355 2011-04-02 04:18:12 <noagendamarket> kiba you should have thought about it for a bit before doing that
356 2011-04-02 04:18:22 <da2ce7> kiba, putting you dirty laundry out for everyone to see is normaly the last resort.
357 2011-04-02 04:18:48 sshc has joined
358 2011-04-02 04:19:20 Bosma_ has joined
359 2011-04-02 04:19:20 <isilion> this is ---> 1CzPwErPTTKiBnMkvzGx68pAakFnoo93Tv (PIrate Party -ES)
360 2011-04-02 04:19:38 <da2ce7> :O
361 2011-04-02 04:20:01 <kiba> da2ce7: yes, it was pretty damaging to my reputation
362 2011-04-02 04:20:19 <noagendamarket> isilion it needs to be on their website
363 2011-04-02 04:20:33 <noagendamarket> n one will believe it otherwise
364 2011-04-02 04:20:33 <isilion> ooook.... looking for...
365 2011-04-02 04:20:37 <[Tycho]> What thread ?
366 2011-04-02 04:20:39 <da2ce7> you need a pgp singed address
367 2011-04-02 04:20:48 <da2ce7> so we know it is from the PP
368 2011-04-02 04:20:56 <kiba> [Tycho]: I wrote a complaint against my employer Nefario for his lack of communication
369 2011-04-02 04:21:08 <kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5282.0
370 2011-04-02 04:21:13 <isilion> http://www.partidopirata.es/ayudanos
371 2011-04-02 04:21:38 <da2ce7> ooh...
372 2011-04-02 04:21:48 <da2ce7> ok. I'll donate 5BTC :)
373 2011-04-02 04:21:53 <isilion> NO
374 2011-04-02 04:21:55 <isilion> WAIT
375 2011-04-02 04:21:57 <isilion> :)
376 2011-04-02 04:22:03 Bosma has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
377 2011-04-02 04:22:03 Bosma_ is now known as Bosma
378 2011-04-02 04:22:04 <isilion> it must be non-anonymous
379 2011-04-02 04:22:12 skreuzer has joined
380 2011-04-02 04:22:23 <isilion> if you want to support us, wait please that we fix this issue
381 2011-04-02 04:22:25 <da2ce7> do you want me to sign that "I have donated 5 btc, in a email?"
382 2011-04-02 04:22:34 <isilion> as some1 said, a simply form should do
383 2011-04-02 04:23:06 <isilion> better save that 5BTC and lets make it right :)
384 2011-04-02 04:23:12 <isilion> hurryes are bad
385 2011-04-02 04:23:13 <da2ce7> *we have our fist 5 legal limbo BTC*
386 2011-04-02 04:23:17 * da2ce7 was a first!
387 2011-04-02 04:23:17 <isilion> xDDD
388 2011-04-02 04:24:03 * kiba ponders if he still will get additional work
389 2011-04-02 04:24:25 <[Tycho]> I don't even know what Nefario is :)
390 2011-04-02 04:24:57 <noagendamarket> lol
391 2011-04-02 04:25:11 <da2ce7> nefario is a carrot that grown too deep, connected with some optical fibers in china and became self aware.
392 2011-04-02 04:25:11 miner_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
393 2011-04-02 04:25:11 xenon481 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
394 2011-04-02 04:25:12 <isilion> then please send an email with a valid email address to anvazher@gmail.com telling your name and bc address :)
395 2011-04-02 04:25:36 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
396 2011-04-02 04:25:38 <grbgout> [Tycho]: would it be uncouth to ask you what equation you use for the proportional payout? I saw on slush's site that he displays his, and I was wondering how yours compares. Is it basically the same, but (50 BTC - 3%) - (personal shares/total shares), or something different?
397 2011-04-02 04:25:44 <da2ce7> isilion, bitcoin dosn't work like that
398 2011-04-02 04:25:56 <noagendamarket> da2ce7 lol
399 2011-04-02 04:26:01 <isilion> its said before...
400 2011-04-02 04:26:09 osmosis has joined
401 2011-04-02 04:26:23 <noagendamarket> people dont have just 1 bitcoin address....
402 2011-04-02 04:26:26 <isilion> our law should let this kind of donations but no..
403 2011-04-02 04:26:38 <noagendamarket> they have a legion!
404 2011-04-02 04:26:46 <isilion> yeah, but WE as a party in Spain
405 2011-04-02 04:26:55 <noagendamarket> they do not forget
406 2011-04-02 04:26:57 <da2ce7> people have many many bitcoin addresses.
407 2011-04-02 04:26:58 <noagendamarket> lol
408 2011-04-02 04:27:04 <isilion> must have constance that the address that sent the coins is yours
409 2011-04-02 04:27:17 <isilion> and not from an obscure anoncorp
410 2011-04-02 04:27:43 <noagendamarket> yay for limbbtc
411 2011-04-02 04:27:51 <isilion> or at least
412 2011-04-02 04:27:52 <kiba> [Tycho]: seems like you have not been on the forum for a while
413 2011-04-02 04:27:54 <isilion> WAS yours
414 2011-04-02 04:27:55 <[Tycho]> grbgout, yes, it's the same.
415 2011-04-02 04:27:55 <isilion> xD
416 2011-04-02 04:27:55 <da2ce7> :O well then the only way to prove that is if I use the same bitcoin address to clear sign a statement that I own that address.
417 2011-04-02 04:27:56 <kiba> he's the guy responsible for that China
418 2011-04-02 04:27:59 <kiba> students
419 2011-04-02 04:28:00 <da2ce7> and that is lots of bother.
420 2011-04-02 04:28:08 <[Tycho]> grbgout, just your share -3%
421 2011-04-02 04:28:38 <isilion> da2ce7, pardon?
422 2011-04-02 04:28:49 <grbgout> [Tycho]: er, that sounds different than the equation I wrote above. Let me illustrate what "your share less 3%" might mean, bear with me :) and thanks for the dialog.
423 2011-04-02 04:29:04 <da2ce7> well I can 'claim' that I am the owner of any bitcoin address, there is no way to prove me wrong.
424 2011-04-02 04:29:22 toffoo has joined
425 2011-04-02 04:29:29 <[Tycho]> grbgout, there is no difference between those equations.
426 2011-04-02 04:29:30 <da2ce7> other than asking me to sign a statement with the private key to that bitcoin address.
427 2011-04-02 04:29:38 <isilion> then a form should not work
428 2011-04-02 04:29:40 <isilion> :7
429 2011-04-02 04:29:45 * [Tycho] just remembered optical carrots from "Lexx" TV show.
430 2011-04-02 04:29:48 <grbgout> [Tycho]: er, simpler way of asking: is it less 3% of my share, or my share of 3% less the 50 BTC?
431 2011-04-02 04:29:50 <isilion> we must identificate who donate to us
432 2011-04-02 04:30:01 <isilion> we must make that info public
433 2011-04-02 04:30:04 <da2ce7> but the bitcoin software dosn't have a easy way to do that.
434 2011-04-02 04:30:18 <isilion> thats the issue
435 2011-04-02 04:30:29 <isilion> why i came :)
436 2011-04-02 04:30:32 <noagendamarket> bitcoin - defeating political parties since 2011
437 2011-04-02 04:30:39 <[Tycho]> grbgout, 48.5 is divided between participants.
438 2011-04-02 04:30:50 * grbgout tips his hat at [Tycho]
439 2011-04-02 04:30:55 <noagendamarket> its easier just to take anonymous bribes
440 2011-04-02 04:31:02 <noagendamarket> :)
441 2011-04-02 04:31:08 <isilion> that's because i though in making our own pool
442 2011-04-02 04:31:08 <grbgout> thanks, that clarifies it completely. Just a note, the way its worded on your site is a little less clear.
443 2011-04-02 04:31:11 <da2ce7> as I said before... get (weathy) a friend of PP to accept bitcoins and change them into euro and donate the euro
444 2011-04-02 04:31:18 <isilion> volunteerism isnt illegal
445 2011-04-02 04:31:24 <[Tycho]> grbgout, it's the same as taking 3% from your payout. Isn't it ?
446 2011-04-02 04:31:35 <grbgout> [Tycho]: I don't think so. one sec
447 2011-04-02 04:31:36 <isilion> we can 'let the ppl find golden bits in our river'
448 2011-04-02 04:32:15 <grbgout> It could mean: (50 * (my shares/total shares)) - ((50 * (my shares/total shares)) * (3/100.0))
449 2011-04-02 04:32:45 <noagendamarket> when they declare bitcoin illegal I dont want to be on a list :)
450 2011-04-02 04:32:59 <noagendamarket> oh lets blame that guy
451 2011-04-02 04:33:04 <noagendamarket> lol
452 2011-04-02 04:33:05 * grbgout taps his nose at noagendamarket
453 2011-04-02 04:33:22 <isilion> you, devs, are soooo funy :)
454 2011-04-02 04:33:25 <isilion> funny
455 2011-04-02 04:33:27 * da2ce7 announces that he is donating all his bitcoins to SexyFur.com
456 2011-04-02 04:33:42 <noagendamarket> Im sure they would love to tattoo a bitcoin address on my arm...oh wait
457 2011-04-02 04:33:42 <[Tycho]> grbgout, if we assume that your share is 50%, then (50*0.97)/2 is the same as (50/2)*0.97
458 2011-04-02 04:34:02 <noagendamarket> thats been done before...
459 2011-04-02 04:34:03 <isilion> correct me if im wrong
460 2011-04-02 04:34:07 * da2ce7 has no more bitcoins so cannot be held account for them
461 2011-04-02 04:34:23 <isilion> but bicoin can use ips instead of bt addresses, right?
462 2011-04-02 04:34:35 <noagendamarket> yes
463 2011-04-02 04:35:29 <noagendamarket> that reminds me some company just offered anonymous vpn for bitcoins...
464 2011-04-02 04:35:31 <grbgout> [Tycho]: I'm not sure where that explanation came form, =D but I don't dispute the order of operations :)
465 2011-04-02 04:35:40 <isilion> is there any way to link that ip with a google account or email, and prove that way, thay "I send this, because this is my ip and my email' ?
466 2011-04-02 04:35:49 <isilion> that*
467 2011-04-02 04:35:51 <[Tycho]> grbgout, i mean that 3% is 3% in any case :) Ok.
468 2011-04-02 04:36:28 <[Tycho]> grbgout, do you know that my fee is almost lower than in other pools ? :)
469 2011-04-02 04:36:34 <noagendamarket> isilion I take it you wont be accepting cash as donations then ?
470 2011-04-02 04:36:36 <grbgout> [Tycho]: anyway, if you say the equation is a person's share of 48.5, then that's good enough for me. I was just curious because it's not clear based on the way its written on the site.
471 2011-04-02 04:36:52 <isilion> the problem isnt the coin
472 2011-04-02 04:36:57 <isilion> is the way it is donated
473 2011-04-02 04:37:04 <grbgout> and I was just trying to explain how the way its written could be misinterpretted.
474 2011-04-02 04:37:13 <isilion> in Spain, political parties cannot accept anonymous donatives
475 2011-04-02 04:37:23 <noagendamarket> wrong - the problem is the government :)
476 2011-04-02 04:37:23 <isilion> in order to avoid corporativism
477 2011-04-02 04:37:24 <noagendamarket> or the law
478 2011-04-02 04:37:28 <noagendamarket> whatever that is
479 2011-04-02 04:37:29 <isilion> nope
480 2011-04-02 04:37:42 <isilion> we dont want the corps financiating the parties
481 2011-04-02 04:37:48 <isilion> just the votes
482 2011-04-02 04:37:50 <noagendamarket> well.
483 2011-04-02 04:37:52 <isilion> and the affiliates
484 2011-04-02 04:37:56 <isilion> pay to the partyes
485 2011-04-02 04:38:08 <isilion> and PP has an affiliation cuote on 0Â
486 2011-04-02 04:38:11 <isilion> so ...
487 2011-04-02 04:38:20 <isilion> (no elections yet)
488 2011-04-02 04:38:21 <noagendamarket> the corps finance things now one way or the other
489 2011-04-02 04:38:51 <noagendamarket> or they pay off judges
490 2011-04-02 04:39:20 <isilion> the prob in spain is a large influence traffic
491 2011-04-02 04:39:24 <isilion> this law has sense
492 2011-04-02 04:39:47 <noagendamarket> the world is rooted
493 2011-04-02 04:39:55 <noagendamarket> hang on for the ride
494 2011-04-02 04:39:57 <noagendamarket> lol
495 2011-04-02 04:40:10 <isilion> if it were like USA, we would have a Fascist party gorberning...
496 2011-04-02 04:40:37 JackRabiit has joined
497 2011-04-02 04:40:41 <noagendamarket> isnt spain in the EU ?
498 2011-04-02 04:40:42 <isilion> as corporative interest are, in fact, fascists
499 2011-04-02 04:40:45 <JackRabiit> lolwut? unicorn?
500 2011-04-02 04:40:46 <isilion> right
501 2011-04-02 04:40:59 <isilion> i laughed too
502 2011-04-02 04:41:04 <isilion> why a unicorn.txt?
503 2011-04-02 04:41:10 <manveru> JackRabiit: the server?
504 2011-04-02 04:41:17 <isilion> i thoug at first it was a little pony from /b
505 2011-04-02 04:41:27 <JackRabiit> Lawl i dont know, i logged into chat and saw teh unicorn
506 2011-04-02 04:41:46 <noagendamarket> the eu controls europe now so it doesnt matter what in=dividiual countries want
507 2011-04-02 04:41:59 <JackRabiit> Anyone wanna play Hold'em on Betco.in?
508 2011-04-02 04:42:14 <isilion> hope that JackRabiit
509 2011-04-02 04:42:16 * manveru doesn't see unicorns anywhere
510 2011-04-02 04:42:22 <isilion> PP has representation in UE
511 2011-04-02 04:42:28 <noagendamarket> haiku herman is your unelected leader
512 2011-04-02 04:42:31 <noagendamarket> lol
513 2011-04-02 04:42:39 <isilion> the youngest chairman is a girl of PP with 23yo
514 2011-04-02 04:43:04 JackRabiit has quit (Client Quit)
515 2011-04-02 04:43:21 * noagendamarket bends over and kisses his ass goodbye
516 2011-04-02 04:43:22 <isilion> its really a generational gap
517 2011-04-02 04:43:39 <isilion> the old continet.. is more like the aged continent
518 2011-04-02 04:43:47 <noagendamarket> the hippies are running things....
519 2011-04-02 04:43:57 <noagendamarket> or their generation is
520 2011-04-02 04:44:02 <noagendamarket> fail...
521 2011-04-02 04:44:05 <isilion> lol
522 2011-04-02 04:44:06 <isilion> xD
523 2011-04-02 04:44:20 <manveru> what's PP?
524 2011-04-02 04:44:22 <isilion> die hippies, die!!
525 2011-04-02 04:44:27 <isilion> PiratePartiet-ES
526 2011-04-02 04:44:31 <manveru> and UE?
527 2011-04-02 04:44:32 <isilion> :P
528 2011-04-02 04:44:41 <noagendamarket> Im in the bitcoin party
529 2011-04-02 04:44:43 <isilion> European Union in wrong order
530 2011-04-02 04:44:47 <isilion> spanish order
531 2011-04-02 04:44:49 <manveru> heh
532 2011-04-02 04:44:58 <noagendamarket> new world order....
533 2011-04-02 04:45:08 <isilion> the nwo will be spanish
534 2011-04-02 04:45:10 <isilion> no doubt
535 2011-04-02 04:45:14 <isilion> xD
536 2011-04-02 04:45:16 <lfm> if europe is the world
537 2011-04-02 04:45:35 <[Tycho]> Oh, so PP isn't PayPal...
538 2011-04-02 04:45:38 <noagendamarket> europe will have a civil war soon enough
539 2011-04-02 04:45:49 <isilion> you think? why?¿
540 2011-04-02 04:46:07 <lfm> more likely china will buy everything
541 2011-04-02 04:46:10 <isilion> whe had two world wars
542 2011-04-02 04:46:11 <manveru> somebody killing our crownprince again?
543 2011-04-02 04:46:12 <noagendamarket> lawl
544 2011-04-02 04:46:26 <isilion> and spain has its own civil 75 years ago
545 2011-04-02 04:46:45 <isilion> wounds are very deep
546 2011-04-02 04:46:50 <isilion> and still present
547 2011-04-02 04:47:00 <isilion> veterans still alive
548 2011-04-02 04:47:17 robotarmy has joined
549 2011-04-02 04:48:11 Bosma has quit (Quit: Bosma)
550 2011-04-02 04:48:21 <isilion> damn, my own grandpa wanted to kill my other... i would never have born
551 2011-04-02 04:48:45 <manveru> i love this diagram: http://bigthink.com/ideas/31556
552 2011-04-02 04:49:22 <manveru> just shows how crazy things are still in europe :P
553 2011-04-02 04:50:41 miner_ has joined
554 2011-04-02 04:51:14 * manveru plans on moving to germany
555 2011-04-02 04:51:38 <isilion> i read about policemen that were send to dissolve a socialist manifestation in Wisconsin or Idaho , that finally joined the manifestants
556 2011-04-02 04:51:52 <isilion> the entire world is cracy
557 2011-04-02 04:51:57 <jrabbit> French I assume?
558 2011-04-02 04:52:06 <jrabbit> you're translating poorly.
559 2011-04-02 04:52:22 <isilion> sorry just uncopetent
560 2011-04-02 04:52:27 <isilion> but Spanish
561 2011-04-02 04:52:31 <isilion> :)
562 2011-04-02 04:52:35 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
563 2011-04-02 04:52:40 <manveru> hey, at least he's not breaking up
564 2011-04-02 04:53:20 <isilion> (better uncompetent rather than French lol :P)
565 2011-04-02 04:53:26 <jrabbit> lol
566 2011-04-02 04:54:02 <manveru> isilion: my parents are in gran canaria right now... but speak almost no spanish
567 2011-04-02 04:54:16 <isilion> lovely
568 2011-04-02 04:54:27 <manveru> they say it's like 50% german there
569 2011-04-02 04:54:49 <isilion> a lot of tourist buy here their summerhouse
570 2011-04-02 04:54:56 <isilion> Valencia it's the same
571 2011-04-02 04:55:10 <manveru> nice places :)
572 2011-04-02 04:55:24 <isilion> Yeah, nice corrupted places :)
573 2011-04-02 04:55:28 <manveru> lol
574 2011-04-02 04:55:30 <isilion> a lot od speculation
575 2011-04-02 04:55:34 <manveru> it's spain, after all
576 2011-04-02 04:55:42 <isilion> politicians build 10m from the sea
577 2011-04-02 04:55:50 <manveru> oO
578 2011-04-02 04:55:50 <isilion> into the same sand itself
579 2011-04-02 04:56:28 echelon has left ("Leaving")
580 2011-04-02 04:56:37 <isilion> the last year they came out with a law to demolish every construction on the beaches
581 2011-04-02 04:57:00 <isilion> they raped 'chiringuitos' (beach bar's) and left the hotels...
582 2011-04-02 04:57:02 <isilion> fuck
583 2011-04-02 04:57:19 <isilion> that really nonsense
584 2011-04-02 04:57:30 * da2ce7 wants to go to spain.
585 2011-04-02 04:57:31 <da2ce7> :)
586 2011-04-02 04:57:48 <da2ce7> will bring all the bitcoin's he has donated to sexyfur with him.
587 2011-04-02 04:58:14 <isilion> better bring yourself a sexy fur if youre female
588 2011-04-02 04:58:16 <isilion> :P
589 2011-04-02 04:58:27 <da2ce7> LO
590 2011-04-02 04:58:29 <da2ce7> :O
591 2011-04-02 04:59:09 <isilion> well men
592 2011-04-02 04:59:12 <isilion> nice chatting
593 2011-04-02 04:59:16 <isilion> gotta go to sleep
594 2011-04-02 04:59:19 <isilion> cya
595 2011-04-02 04:59:19 <da2ce7> keep safe!
596 2011-04-02 04:59:36 <isilion> please add PP to that trading list page
597 2011-04-02 04:59:38 <isilion> :)
598 2011-04-02 04:59:41 <isilion> good bye!
599 2011-04-02 05:03:37 skreuzer has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
600 2011-04-02 05:04:06 <gjs278> idnar:
601 2011-04-02 05:04:11 <gjs278> for the minecraft thing
602 2011-04-02 05:04:17 <gjs278> the dns entry is minecraft.net for the logins
603 2011-04-02 05:04:21 <gjs278> so you set minecraft.net to my ip
604 2011-04-02 05:04:27 <gjs278> and when you go to login, I always accept the login
605 2011-04-02 05:22:33 da2ce7 is now known as lucky_guy_who_is
606 2011-04-02 05:23:07 lucky_guy_who_is is now known as CRISSY_CRISS_ton
607 2011-04-02 05:23:19 <CRISSY_CRISS_ton> OK. fail
608 2011-04-02 05:23:27 CRISSY_CRISS_ton is now known as da2ce7
609 2011-04-02 05:24:32 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
610 2011-04-02 05:24:43 * da2ce7 is seeing CRISSY CRISS tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!1
611 2011-04-02 05:26:26 miner_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
612 2011-04-02 05:27:09 gjs278 has joined
613 2011-04-02 05:27:54 bk128 has joined
614 2011-04-02 05:31:45 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
615 2011-04-02 05:37:35 n0thingg has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
616 2011-04-02 05:37:58 devrandom has joined
617 2011-04-02 05:40:42 <bitcoiner> whats up with slush pool ?
618 2011-04-02 05:41:58 <[Tycho]> Something.
619 2011-04-02 05:43:48 grbgout has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
620 2011-04-02 05:47:38 <manveru> da2ce7: chrissy who?
621 2011-04-02 05:49:27 <da2ce7> http://www.myspace.com/djcrissycriss
622 2011-04-02 05:51:34 <da2ce7> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUTXvOiT-qo
623 2011-04-02 05:54:36 <bk128> yeah, slush pool site is down here too
624 2011-04-02 05:54:56 <da2ce7> the site seems to be down, but my miners are still mining.
625 2011-04-02 05:55:30 <bk128> good. my miners are remote, harder for me to check them
626 2011-04-02 05:59:01 TD has joined
627 2011-04-02 05:59:09 TD has quit (Client Quit)
628 2011-04-02 06:02:19 ForceDestroyer has joined
629 2011-04-02 06:03:00 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
630 2011-04-02 06:06:35 FD has quit (away!asdf@p4FE568EA.dip.t-dialin.net|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
631 2011-04-02 06:07:27 joepie92 has joined
632 2011-04-02 06:11:00 Asphodelia has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
633 2011-04-02 06:15:58 larsivi has joined
634 2011-04-02 06:16:03 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
635 2011-04-02 06:18:56 osmosis has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
636 2011-04-02 06:23:08 <theymos> I just enabled the "report to moderator" link on the forum. Is it showing up correctly for everyone, with no "logged" text and image?
637 2011-04-02 06:23:47 <tcatm> yep
638 2011-04-02 06:25:35 alystair has joined
639 2011-04-02 06:27:27 <jgarzik> tcatm: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5314.0
640 2011-04-02 06:27:36 <jgarzik> tcatm: improved ServiceProxy, replacing python-jsonrpc
641 2011-04-02 06:27:38 <[Tycho]> theymos, so you are forum admin ? :)
642 2011-04-02 06:28:13 <theymos> Sirius runs the site. I am one of the admins.
643 2011-04-02 06:33:05 <tcatm> jgarzik: great :)
644 2011-04-02 06:36:11 n0thin303 has joined
645 2011-04-02 06:43:55 toffoo has quit ()
646 2011-04-02 06:45:00 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
647 2011-04-02 06:45:20 toffoo has joined
648 2011-04-02 06:45:49 gjs278 has joined
649 2011-04-02 06:48:06 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
650 2011-04-02 06:48:36 gjs278 has joined
651 2011-04-02 06:52:46 <joepie92> mm, if anyone is interested
652 2011-04-02 06:52:53 <joepie92> .so TLD launched yesterday
653 2011-04-02 06:53:01 <joepie92> still a lot of wordlist words that are free
654 2011-04-02 06:53:11 <joepie92> also, if you plan on running a TOR node, get exitno.de, should also still be free
655 2011-04-02 06:53:25 n0thin303 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
656 2011-04-02 06:54:19 <gjs278> dude... on a personal connection, I'd never run a tor node ever again
657 2011-04-02 06:54:49 <gjs278> you will basically be banned from everywhere
658 2011-04-02 06:54:57 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
659 2011-04-02 06:55:12 <gjs278> you get like a week before wikipedia blocks you from ever editing articles under that ip
660 2011-04-02 06:55:23 <theymos> You can run a bridge node without risk.
661 2011-04-02 06:55:45 <gjs278> that's true, but I'd never touch exit node again
662 2011-04-02 06:56:39 <joepie92> meh, getting a domain for it is more for actual servers anyway
663 2011-04-02 06:56:39 <theymos> It does give some nice plausible deniability. No one can ever prove that you did something when anyone can use your IP address.
664 2011-04-02 06:56:51 <joepie92> yeah, for the price of half the internet banning you :P
665 2011-04-02 06:57:10 FabianB has joined
666 2011-04-02 06:57:15 <joepie92> another tip
667 2011-04-02 06:57:18 <joepie92> lib*.so
668 2011-04-02 06:57:30 <joepie92> the moment browsers like chrome recognize .so as a valid TLD...
669 2011-04-02 06:57:47 <joepie92> anyone searching for the name of a specific lib, will not end up on a google page (from the omnibar)
670 2011-04-02 06:57:50 <gjs278> that's going to screw with a bunch of google searches lol
671 2011-04-02 06:57:50 <joepie92> but on your domain instead
672 2011-04-02 06:57:54 <joepie92> exactly
673 2011-04-02 06:58:01 <joepie92> those who are in marketing might find that interesting :)
674 2011-04-02 06:58:51 <joepie92> also, just got http://volume.so
675 2011-04-02 06:58:51 <joepie92> :3
676 2011-04-02 06:59:49 <gjs278> hmm
677 2011-04-02 06:59:53 <gjs278> what's cool and ends in .so
678 2011-04-02 07:00:20 <gjs278> so.so of course
679 2011-04-02 07:01:45 <joepie92> min 3 chars
680 2011-04-02 07:01:48 <joepie92> 2 chars is reserved I believe
681 2011-04-02 07:01:51 <joepie92> for premium stuff
682 2011-04-02 07:01:56 <joepie92> espres.so is taken
683 2011-04-02 07:02:00 <joepie92> virtuo.so is also taken
684 2011-04-02 07:02:49 <gjs278> rever.so
685 2011-04-02 07:03:00 <gjs278> Picas.so
686 2011-04-02 07:03:10 <gjs278> Alfon.so
687 2011-04-02 07:03:46 <gjs278> not that many words
688 2011-04-02 07:04:18 <mizerydearia> Congratulations to wonko; winner of five witcoins of support! http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5271.msg77648#msg77648 I'm surprised barely anyone else participated and mostly everyone here ignored me.
689 2011-04-02 07:04:59 <mizerydearia> Perhaps the offer was premature or unworthy of attention
690 2011-04-02 07:05:42 <gjs278> my timezone still has april 1st... I'm submitting now
691 2011-04-02 07:06:13 <gjs278> if you ask, I think I live in the pacific ocean
692 2011-04-02 07:06:31 <joepie92> lol
693 2011-04-02 07:07:12 <mizerydearia> ^_^ "according to the server's time"
694 2011-04-02 07:07:27 <[Tycho]> Which server ? :))
695 2011-04-02 07:07:49 <mizerydearia> The only server that would make sense
696 2011-04-02 07:08:11 <mizerydearia> The one accessible at 199.6.1.164 / kernel.org obviously
697 2011-04-02 07:08:44 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
698 2011-04-02 07:09:03 <[Tycho]> Does anyone use slush's JSON API with token ?
699 2011-04-02 07:16:44 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: token?
700 2011-04-02 07:16:54 <[Tycho]> Yes.
701 2011-04-02 07:17:02 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: token what?
702 2011-04-02 07:17:30 <[Tycho]> API token
703 2011-04-02 07:17:57 <[Tycho]> I'm talking about his API for retrieving account stats.
704 2011-04-02 07:18:40 <joepie92> does anyone here know of any places to find creative commons content, besides jamendo and flickr?
705 2011-04-02 07:18:59 <joepie92> preferably with an API of some sorts
706 2011-04-02 07:19:01 <joepie92> or database dumps
707 2011-04-02 07:19:08 <joepie92> anything that can be processed automatically
708 2011-04-02 07:19:47 devrandom has joined
709 2011-04-02 07:26:58 <gjs278> go process a db dump of wikipedia
710 2011-04-02 07:27:03 <gjs278> that should keep you busy
711 2011-04-02 07:31:32 <joepie92> lol
712 2011-04-02 07:32:38 <nathan7> That's the thingy GPL, no?
713 2011-04-02 07:32:42 <nathan7> the GPL for documents thing
714 2011-04-02 07:32:53 <nathan7> It has a name..
715 2011-04-02 07:33:15 <nathan7> Oh, it's CC now.
716 2011-04-02 07:33:16 <joepie92> wikipedia is CC now
717 2011-04-02 07:33:18 <joepie92> they changed
718 2011-04-02 07:33:24 <nathan7> Mhm
719 2011-04-02 07:33:26 <joepie92> after a lot of internal fighting and butthurt, afaik
720 2011-04-02 07:33:30 <nathan7> I think I once got an email on that.
721 2011-04-02 07:33:46 * nathan7 randomly wonders where joepie92 is located
722 2011-04-02 07:33:54 <nathan7> Hmm, .nl
723 2011-04-02 07:33:55 <joepie92> netherlands, howso? :P
724 2011-04-02 07:34:01 <theymos> They actually got GNU to temporarily chance the terms of the GFDL so that it could be converted.
725 2011-04-02 07:34:07 <joepie92> lol.
726 2011-04-02 07:34:11 <nathan7> Heh.
727 2011-04-02 07:34:21 <joepie92> not sure if that's a good or a bad thing
728 2011-04-02 07:34:53 <joepie92> my god.
729 2011-04-02 07:34:54 <joepie92> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/No-Letters-Allowed!.aspx
730 2011-04-02 07:35:50 <nathan7> I /so/ want to stab someone in the face over that
731 2011-04-02 07:40:46 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
732 2011-04-02 07:43:24 <joepie92> hahaha
733 2011-04-02 07:48:56 <[Tycho]> Nice if he is paid by number of code lines :)
734 2011-04-02 07:51:32 larsivi has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
735 2011-04-02 07:56:34 <nathan7> q=
736 2011-04-02 07:58:43 <nathan7> TROLOLO
737 2011-04-02 07:59:49 <mizerydearia> nathan7, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbYtqAWDF2U
738 2011-04-02 08:00:24 * nathan7 runs that through a title check first
739 2011-04-02 08:00:49 <nathan7> "Gunther-ding ding dong"
740 2011-04-02 08:01:28 <nathan7> wtf is that
741 2011-04-02 08:05:04 <joepie92> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/A-Spoonful-of-Sugar.aspx
742 2011-04-02 08:05:05 TheKid has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
743 2011-04-02 08:05:06 * joepie92 sighs
744 2011-04-02 08:05:47 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
745 2011-04-02 08:06:43 <[Tycho]> https://www.google.com/trends?q=bitcoin&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=0
746 2011-04-02 08:06:53 adlsaks has joined
747 2011-04-02 08:07:11 <Diablo-D3> joepie92: but
748 2011-04-02 08:07:12 <Diablo-D3> why didnt he
749 2011-04-02 08:07:13 <Diablo-D3> just
750 2011-04-02 08:07:21 <Diablo-D3> "" EQ Trim(shit)/
751 2011-04-02 08:07:40 * joepie92 must... not... comment...
752 2011-04-02 08:08:17 <joepie92> oh, god
753 2011-04-02 08:08:18 <joepie92> http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/Logging-the-Logger.aspx
754 2011-04-02 08:08:24 dissipate has joined
755 2011-04-02 08:08:24 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
756 2011-04-02 08:08:24 dissipate has joined
757 2011-04-02 08:08:44 <Diablo-D3> joepie92: there are languages where thats actually correct
758 2011-04-02 08:08:53 <Diablo-D3> since "".equals(null) == false
759 2011-04-02 08:09:02 <joepie92> it's not about being correct, lol
760 2011-04-02 08:09:10 <joepie92> it's more about style of coding
761 2011-04-02 08:10:10 <joepie92> also, regarding the logging
762 2011-04-02 08:10:24 <joepie92> I wonder if they also have a try catch on the printstacktrace
763 2011-04-02 08:10:27 <joepie92> and if that also logs...
764 2011-04-02 08:10:36 <joepie92> would make a fun infinite loop
765 2011-04-02 08:10:39 <joepie92> if something went wrong
766 2011-04-02 08:12:21 <Diablo-D3> also
767 2011-04-02 08:12:27 <Diablo-D3> ....
768 2011-04-02 08:12:35 <Diablo-D3> what happens if their javaee container logs stdout?
769 2011-04-02 08:12:41 Myckel has joined
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771 2011-04-02 08:12:41 Myckel has joined
772 2011-04-02 08:15:28 larsivi has joined
773 2011-04-02 08:25:56 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
774 2011-04-02 08:31:29 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
775 2011-04-02 08:34:45 taco_the_paco has joined
776 2011-04-02 08:37:33 mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
777 2011-04-02 08:37:41 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
778 2011-04-02 08:41:51 gjs278 has joined
779 2011-04-02 08:43:47 Xunie has joined
780 2011-04-02 08:48:37 grbgout has joined
781 2011-04-02 08:54:23 <joepie92> <Diablo-D3>what happens if their javaee container logs stdout?
782 2011-04-02 08:54:26 <joepie92> very good question
783 2011-04-02 08:54:26 <joepie92> :P
784 2011-04-02 08:55:08 <joepie92> actually a friend of mine once did something like that
785 2011-04-02 08:55:15 <joepie92> make a custom function writeLog
786 2011-04-02 08:55:35 <joepie92> that essentially wrote the given data into a file
787 2011-04-02 08:55:38 <joepie92> and then output it on console
788 2011-04-02 08:55:52 <joepie92> and just output an error message on the console if something went wrong (aka file not writable)
789 2011-04-02 08:56:09 <joepie92> then he did a search and replace to change all console.writeLines to writeLog()....
790 2011-04-02 08:56:13 <joepie92> you can imagine what happened, I think
791 2011-04-02 08:57:26 ducki2p has quit (Quit: noo)
792 2011-04-02 08:57:58 <mizerydearia> For an open source software platform running on a website in which the site generates profits, what seems like a fair method of distributing site profits to all developmental participants and contributors to make the site as it is?
793 2011-04-02 09:01:35 <gjs278> umm, not splitting it with ANYONE, keeping the leftover money to make sure the site stays afloat, or upgrading tech on it
794 2011-04-02 09:05:13 <slush> hm, bitcoind on webserver crashed again
795 2011-04-02 09:05:35 <[Tycho]> Oh, you noticed it :)
796 2011-04-02 09:06:08 <slush> stop the irony, I have to sleep sometimes
797 2011-04-02 09:06:09 <tcatm> slush: anything in debug.log?
798 2011-04-02 09:06:22 <joepie92> real developers do not sleep.
799 2011-04-02 09:06:23 <joepie92> they powernap.
800 2011-04-02 09:06:24 <joepie92> :3
801 2011-04-02 09:06:36 <Myckel> looks like Bitcoin Central isn't the only one with crashing clients on servers
802 2011-04-02 09:06:41 <[Tycho]> Because of that i had to check poclbm-gui source for your json api format instead of just trying.
803 2011-04-02 09:07:15 <tcatm> slush: and are you running the deadlock fix path?
804 2011-04-02 09:07:20 <gjs278> slush you should consider installing monit on the server
805 2011-04-02 09:07:38 <gjs278> it can track pids or services and take appropriate steps based on any conditions like the service not being online
806 2011-04-02 09:07:58 <[Tycho]> slush, sorry.
807 2011-04-02 09:08:00 <gjs278> I use it to restart my vpn connection whenever it dies for me
808 2011-04-02 09:08:14 <tcatm> while true; do bitcoind -daemon=0; sleep 5;done should work, too ;)
809 2011-04-02 09:08:17 <slush> tcatm: I think it is similar problem like mndrix reported, it freezed during payouts
810 2011-04-02 09:08:30 <slush> tcatm: but I don't know that there is some patch already
811 2011-04-02 09:08:50 <slush> tcatm: bitcoind didn't crashed, it freezed
812 2011-04-02 09:09:12 <tcatm> try https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/136.patch
813 2011-04-02 09:09:13 <gjs278> does bitcoind open a specific port
814 2011-04-02 09:09:43 <tcatm> gjs278: yep, 8332 und 8333
815 2011-04-02 09:09:50 <tcatm> you could monitor 8332 using getinfo
816 2011-04-02 09:09:54 <gjs278> yep
817 2011-04-02 09:10:03 <gjs278> try and hit 8332, it hangs, bitcoind is dead
818 2011-04-02 09:13:03 <slush> tcatm: last lines before freeze:
819 2011-04-02 09:13:05 <slush> accepted connection
820 2011-04-02 09:13:05 <slush> socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0
821 2011-04-02 09:13:05 <slush> disconnecting node
822 2011-04-02 09:13:05 <slush> accepted connection
823 2011-04-02 09:13:05 <slush> IRC got join
824 2011-04-02 09:13:05 <slush> IRC got join
825 2011-04-02 09:13:05 <slush> IRC got join
826 2011-04-02 09:13:06 <slush> IRC got join
827 2011-04-02 09:13:06 <slush> IRC got join
828 2011-04-02 09:13:07 <slush> IRC got join
829 2011-04-02 09:13:07 <slush> IRC got join
830 2011-04-02 09:13:08 <slush> IRC got join
831 2011-04-02 09:13:08 <slush> IRC got join
832 2011-04-02 09:13:09 <slush> IRC got join
833 2011-04-02 09:13:40 <tcatm> anything with ThreadRPC in it?
834 2011-04-02 09:14:00 <tcatm> or does that server only serve getwork?
835 2011-04-02 09:15:06 <gjs278> the bitcoind crashing only effected payouts and the website, right? none of the block shares were hurt by it being down?
836 2011-04-02 09:15:27 <slush> tcatm: no, it's only accounting node, no getworks
837 2011-04-02 09:15:44 <slush> gjs278: exactly
838 2011-04-02 09:16:03 <slush> I have those problems only on accounting node, getwork nodes never crashed like this
839 2011-04-02 09:17:26 <gjs278> bitcoind needs some pid file support if it doesn't have it already
840 2011-04-02 09:17:38 <nathan7> Indeedles
841 2011-04-02 09:17:42 <tcatm> gjs278: write a patch :)
842 2011-04-02 09:18:00 <gjs278> I've done this in perl once lol
843 2011-04-02 09:18:05 <gjs278> and that was using their module
844 2011-04-02 09:18:17 <tcatm> slush: that really sounds like the deadlock problem
845 2011-04-02 09:19:15 <nathan7> Tdzhtzfbtdz.
846 2011-04-02 09:22:47 Lartza has joined
847 2011-04-02 09:22:47 Lartza has quit (Changing host)
848 2011-04-02 09:22:47 Lartza has joined
849 2011-04-02 09:25:28 maikmerten has joined
850 2011-04-02 09:26:37 BlueMatt has joined
851 2011-04-02 09:26:39 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
852 2011-04-02 09:26:39 BlueMatt has joined
853 2011-04-02 09:28:03 <gjs278> what package is db_cxx.h
854 2011-04-02 09:28:26 <Diablo-D3> libdb4.7++
855 2011-04-02 09:28:32 <Diablo-D3> it should be obvious
856 2011-04-02 09:28:33 TheAncientGoat has joined
857 2011-04-02 09:30:58 <Sami345> My bitcoin has problems with connecting to the network
858 2011-04-02 09:31:29 <Sami345> it hardly finds 1 connection for a few minutes and then again 0 connections
859 2011-04-02 09:32:10 <gjs278> lies http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7456/screenshotzp.png
860 2011-04-02 09:32:41 adlsaks has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
861 2011-04-02 09:35:00 FellowTraveler has joined
862 2011-04-02 09:35:05 <FellowTraveler> hi all
863 2011-04-02 09:37:47 <Myckel> Hi FellowTraveler
864 2011-04-02 09:38:59 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: why the fuck are you using... gentoo?
865 2011-04-02 09:39:01 <Diablo-D3> whatever that is
866 2011-04-02 09:39:30 <[Tycho]> JSON API is implemented in my pool, if someone is interested in that.
867 2011-04-02 09:39:47 <xelister> "<Diablo-D3> gjs278: why the fuck are you using... gentoo?" mphphphhhhhhhh.
868 2011-04-02 09:39:50 <Diablo-D3> json api is implemented in my pool
869 2011-04-02 09:39:55 <xelister> someone should bash it (without the context) ;)
870 2011-04-02 09:41:41 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
871 2011-04-02 09:42:06 gjs278 has joined
872 2011-04-02 09:42:14 <gjs278> my god man, you've never heard of gentoo
873 2011-04-02 09:47:03 <Myckel> gjs278, there is an ebuild for bitcoin.
874 2011-04-02 09:47:06 <Diablo-D3> uh, are you retarded?
875 2011-04-02 09:47:12 <xelister> trololololol
876 2011-04-02 09:47:46 <gjs278> the ebuild for db-4.7 just didn't put db_cxx in the right spot
877 2011-04-02 09:47:55 <gjs278> it put it up a dir since you can have multiple db versions
878 2011-04-02 09:48:15 <Myckel> gjs278, db is slotted on gentoo
879 2011-04-02 09:48:22 <gjs278> yes it is
880 2011-04-02 09:48:45 <gjs278> I symlinked 4.7 to the spot bitcoin checks
881 2011-04-02 09:49:24 <Myckel> also make sure the ncxx use flag isn't set
882 2011-04-02 09:49:29 <Myckel> *nocxx
883 2011-04-02 09:49:33 <Myckel> ;)
884 2011-04-02 09:49:37 <gjs278> yeah that would be fun
885 2011-04-02 09:50:14 <Myckel> ugh... the weekly horror is going through the street.
886 2011-04-02 09:51:12 <Myckel> horror == barrel organ
887 2011-04-02 09:54:13 <gjs278> everyone's run dir for pidfiles is /var/run right
888 2011-04-02 09:54:44 <Myckel> yes
889 2011-04-02 09:55:09 <Myckel> well, system services
890 2011-04-02 09:56:02 <grbgout> gjs278: there's a #bitcoin-gentoo channel, fyi.
891 2011-04-02 09:56:46 <Myckel> grbgout, thanks for the tip ;)
892 2011-04-02 09:56:51 <grbgout> ;)
893 2011-04-02 09:56:58 <grbgout> thank mizerydearia
894 2011-04-02 09:57:11 <mizerydearia> oh?
895 2011-04-02 09:57:24 <grbgout> for bitcoin-gentoo
896 2011-04-02 09:57:27 <mizerydearia> ah
897 2011-04-02 09:57:55 <mizerydearia> <grbgout> Hello matt, g'bye matt ^_^
898 2011-04-02 09:57:58 <lfm> you mean blame him
899 2011-04-02 09:58:04 <mizerydearia> yar, sorrry, that's what I meant
900 2011-04-02 09:58:05 <grbgout> lfm: that too ;)
901 2011-04-02 10:11:48 EvanR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
902 2011-04-02 10:12:04 EvanR has joined
903 2011-04-02 10:17:47 <Myckel> We need another euro exchange... Davout is being to slow with handeling funds at Bitcoin Central (>2 weeks now).
904 2011-04-02 10:18:47 <theorbtwo> Ouch.
905 2011-04-02 10:18:55 <theorbtwo> bitcoin-otc no good for you?
906 2011-04-02 10:21:08 prax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
907 2011-04-02 10:21:47 prax has joined
908 2011-04-02 10:21:59 jercos has joined
909 2011-04-02 10:25:22 Zarutian has joined
910 2011-04-02 10:27:33 Myckel has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
911 2011-04-02 10:28:26 Myckel has joined
912 2011-04-02 10:30:03 <Myckel> theorbtwo, no, for multiple reasons.
913 2011-04-02 10:35:36 m00p has joined
914 2011-04-02 10:37:41 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: wallet protocol: does a "miner" need auth to do anything more than just what a miner does? ie request next block headers? IMHO if you have a miner auth, people should be able to just expose that and not have to worry about any kind of leakage of info
915 2011-04-02 10:40:12 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: IMHO, the ability to propose a tx is needless fluff. IMHO, the protocol should be very simple which yours somewhat is, but complicating it for such things adds very little advantage for a ton of work
916 2011-04-02 10:41:25 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: IMHO, the "merchant" auth doesnt add anything that couldnt and shouldnt be done via a wrapper to the protocol
917 2011-04-02 10:41:47 <BlueMatt> which is another reason why Im not a big fan of making clients which try to use SPDY
918 2011-04-02 10:42:38 <BlueMatt> IMHO http is adventageous as I can write a php wrapper which checks auth against my own db and returns the proper stuff after calling via the wallet protocol. SPDY just complicates that
919 2011-04-02 10:49:19 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
920 2011-04-02 10:52:07 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
921 2011-04-02 10:52:25 <gjs278> tcatm I finished pidfile support
922 2011-04-02 10:52:54 <gjs278> I had to modify init.cpp, util.h, util.cpp
923 2011-04-02 10:53:09 <gjs278> I can't tell if I'm crossplatform enough though
924 2011-04-02 10:53:18 <gjs278> int pid = (int) getpid(); will that work on windows
925 2011-04-02 10:54:16 adlsaks has joined
926 2011-04-02 10:55:03 <gjs278> restarting X, brb
927 2011-04-02 10:56:50 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
928 2011-04-02 10:57:24 gjs278 has joined
929 2011-04-02 11:02:34 adlsaks has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
930 2011-04-02 11:03:44 <gjs278> actually scratch that, I'll use the pid_t it already has
931 2011-04-02 11:06:44 <gjs278> can someone who deals with the actual bitcoind development take a look at http://www.garyshood.com/bitcoin/pid.patch and tell me if it looks okay
932 2011-04-02 11:08:29 <tcatm> Why do you add an empty line in init.cpp?
933 2011-04-02 11:09:32 <gjs278> hmm
934 2011-04-02 11:09:36 <gjs278> not sure
935 2011-04-02 11:09:40 <gjs278> that part can be ignored
936 2011-04-02 11:10:32 <tcatm> Also your variable names aren't following the guidelines.
937 2011-04-02 11:10:45 <sipa> i suppose it should be "nPid"
938 2011-04-02 11:11:15 <gjs278> ok
939 2011-04-02 11:11:19 <gjs278> so just nPid then?
940 2011-04-02 11:11:38 <sipa> pathConfig isn't following the convention either
941 2011-04-02 11:11:55 <sipa> and the braces around the CreatePidFile() call aren't indented correctly
942 2011-04-02 11:11:58 <gjs278> I copied a function that has it
943 2011-04-02 11:12:02 <gjs278> pathConfig that is
944 2011-04-02 11:12:24 <sipa> oh wait, path is the prefix there
945 2011-04-02 11:12:26 <gjs278> GetConfigFile has pathConfig
946 2011-04-02 11:12:37 <sipa> yes, i'm mistaken
947 2011-04-02 11:13:05 * sipa is no big fan of that convention
948 2011-04-02 11:13:13 <gjs278> how should the braces be on CreatePidFile
949 2011-04-02 11:13:52 <gjs278> also I'm only using pid because the original was pid_t pid = fork();
950 2011-04-02 11:14:08 <tcatm> 4 spaces per indent level
951 2011-04-02 11:14:37 <sipa> anyway, semantically it looks good to me
952 2011-04-02 11:14:44 <gjs278> did I have 3 on a line or something
953 2011-04-02 11:15:06 <gjs278> I don't see where the messup is... unless git put it there on me when I diffed
954 2011-04-02 11:15:38 <tcatm> using pid is okay.
955 2011-04-02 11:15:45 <gjs278> what var is messed up then
956 2011-04-02 11:15:46 <tcatm> you are using tabs, not spaces to indent
957 2011-04-02 11:16:12 <xelister> like a man
958 2011-04-02 11:16:13 <gjs278> oh ok
959 2011-04-02 11:16:15 <gjs278> yeah
960 2011-04-02 11:16:17 tippenein has joined
961 2011-04-02 11:16:25 <tcatm> same as sipa, I also thought that patchConfig was "wrong". sorry
962 2011-04-02 11:17:01 <gjs278> okay repatching it...
963 2011-04-02 11:17:25 <sipa> tcatm: can you explain why "pid" is right?
964 2011-04-02 11:18:24 joepie92 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
965 2011-04-02 11:18:28 <gjs278> I'm just going by what this thing already had in it lol
966 2011-04-02 11:19:03 <gjs278> http://www.garyshood.com/bitcoin/pid.patch took out the empty space I don't know if my editor put any other bs in there that it shouldnt have
967 2011-04-02 11:19:05 <tcatm> sipa: I checked previous versions. They used pid, too. Well, yes, it should be renamed but not in this patch.
968 2011-04-02 11:19:16 joepie92 has joined
969 2011-04-02 11:19:58 Teslah has joined
970 2011-04-02 11:20:22 <tcatm> gjs278: there are still tabs before the braces around CreatePidFile(GEt..
971 2011-04-02 11:20:41 <gjs278> lol
972 2011-04-02 11:20:43 <gjs278> damn
973 2011-04-02 11:20:44 <gjs278> ok
974 2011-04-02 11:21:08 <tcatm> :%s/<TAB>/ /g if you use vim
975 2011-04-02 11:21:24 <gjs278> 3rd time charm
976 2011-04-02 11:21:33 <gjs278> yeah I just search replaced to catch them all, it was only those two
977 2011-04-02 11:22:38 <tcatm> so, when your patch is ready make a pull request: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4571.0
978 2011-04-02 11:22:57 <gjs278> I believe it is
979 2011-04-02 11:23:04 <gjs278> dahhh
980 2011-04-02 11:23:07 <gjs278> github account
981 2011-04-02 11:35:14 ApertureScience has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
982 2011-04-02 11:35:18 <gjs278> okay I think I did the pull tcatm
983 2011-04-02 11:40:15 ApertureScience has joined
984 2011-04-02 11:47:23 <tcatm> what's the fastest way to calculate the number of coins from height?
985 2011-04-02 11:47:45 <tcatm> sum(50/(2**int(h/21e4)) for h in xrange(height)) is a little slow
986 2011-04-02 11:51:45 <sipa> you can probably group them by int(h/21e4), count those, and multiply that by 50/(2**int(h/21e4))
987 2011-04-02 11:51:57 <sipa> oh wait
988 2011-04-02 11:52:42 <tcatm> could work
989 2011-04-02 11:53:47 <sipa> if you use a temporary table, you can do it even a lot faster
990 2011-04-02 11:53:57 <sipa> s/temporary//
991 2011-04-02 11:54:00 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
992 2011-04-02 11:55:20 EvanR has joined
993 2011-04-02 11:55:21 <sipa> cache the counts at block height 0, 210000, 420000, 630000, ...
994 2011-04-02 12:02:59 <tcatm> mhm
995 2011-04-02 12:03:09 <tcatm> how many coins will exist at block 1000000?
996 2011-04-02 12:03:32 <tcatm> bbe says 20187550.00000000, my sum() returns 20010000
997 2011-04-02 12:06:40 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
998 2011-04-02 12:08:02 KBme has quit (Excess Flood)
999 2011-04-02 12:09:10 KBme has joined
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1003 2011-04-02 12:13:42 <sipa> bbe is correct :)
1004 2011-04-02 12:14:04 <sipa> tcatm: you should count in base units, not bitcoins
1005 2011-04-02 12:14:15 <sipa> and round those down to integer values in your calculation
1006 2011-04-02 12:14:23 <sipa> and divide by 1e8 afterwards
1007 2011-04-02 12:14:48 <tcatm> 20187500.0
1008 2011-04-02 12:14:54 <tcatm> that's 50 less than bbe
1009 2011-04-02 12:15:26 <tcatm> oh I'm missing the genesis block
1010 2011-04-02 12:15:28 <sipa> don't forget the genesis block
1011 2011-04-02 12:15:47 <sipa> which has height 0
1012 2011-04-02 12:16:26 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1013 2011-04-02 12:16:48 <lfm> what is the first block with 25 reward?
1014 2011-04-02 12:17:45 <lfm> 210000 or 210001?
1015 2011-04-02 12:17:53 <sipa> 210000 i believe
1016 2011-04-02 12:18:09 skeledrew has joined
1017 2011-04-02 12:18:42 <tcatm> yep, 210000 / 210000 = 1
1018 2011-04-02 12:18:48 <sipa> yes, 210000 (checked the source)
1019 2011-04-02 12:19:01 <lfm> k good
1020 2011-04-02 12:19:23 <sipa> otherwise there would be 210001 blocks with 50 subsidy, and only 210000 for each other distinct subsidy
1021 2011-04-02 12:24:16 <lfm> so if you include block 1000000 I get a total of 20187503.12
1022 2011-04-02 12:25:13 <sipa> you're right
1023 2011-04-02 12:25:19 <sipa> .125 even
1024 2011-04-02 12:25:25 <lfm> actually 20187503.125
1025 2011-04-02 12:25:28 <lfm> ya
1026 2011-04-02 12:25:57 <sipa> guess BBE is wrong, then
1027 2011-04-02 12:26:41 <lfm> well after 1000000 blocks you get that other answer, after block 1000000 you get the other
1028 2011-04-02 12:27:00 <lfm> other other
1029 2011-04-02 12:27:33 <tcatm> lfm: how did you calculate that value?
1030 2011-04-02 12:27:42 <sipa> i get the exact same number
1031 2011-04-02 12:27:49 <lfm> spread sheet
1032 2011-04-02 12:28:24 <tcatm> I now have 50*sum([min(21e4,h-21e4*k)/2**k for k in xrange(int(h/21e4)+1)])+50 which returns 20187550.0 for h=1000000
1033 2011-04-02 12:28:55 <lfm> for block 1000000 you need h = 1000001
1034 2011-04-02 12:29:09 <joepie92> doingitwrong.jpg -> http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/201007/err/numbercalculatingqueuepositionsmall.jpg
1035 2011-04-02 12:29:18 <sipa> for block 1000000 you need the sum of blocks of values 0 up to and including 1000000
1036 2011-04-02 12:29:27 <sipa> s/values/heights/
1037 2011-04-02 12:31:09 <tcatm> lfm: thanks!
1038 2011-04-02 12:31:59 <tcatm> so we have 50*sum(min(21e4,(h+1)-21e4*k)/2**k,k,0,floor((h+1)/21e4)+1)) now
1039 2011-04-02 12:32:02 <sipa> what do you get for total btc at height 210000 ?
1040 2011-04-02 12:32:16 <tcatm> 10500025.0
1041 2011-04-02 12:32:21 <lfm> 10500000.000
1042 2011-04-02 12:32:32 <lfm> oh ya
1043 2011-04-02 12:32:39 <sipa> and 420001 ?
1044 2011-04-02 12:32:51 <tcatm> 15750025.0
1045 2011-04-02 12:32:57 <sipa> wrong
1046 2011-04-02 12:33:05 <lfm> 420001??
1047 2011-04-02 12:33:13 <sipa> oh sorry
1048 2011-04-02 12:33:24 <sipa> 420000, so h=420001
1049 2011-04-02 12:33:33 <sipa> yes you're right
1050 2011-04-02 12:34:00 <sipa> at 420000 it should be 15750012.5
1051 2011-04-02 12:34:11 <tcatm> yep
1052 2011-04-02 12:35:20 <tcatm> is it possible to write min(21e4,(h+1)-21e4*k) without the min()?
1053 2011-04-02 12:36:04 <lfm> tcatm except it will be wrong when it starts getting smaller than microcents
1054 2011-04-02 12:36:57 <tcatm> well that's easy. min(21e6, 50*sum(min(21e4,(h+1)-21e4*k)/2**k,k,0,floor((h+1)/21e4)+1)))
1055 2011-04-02 12:37:23 <sipa> how many at block 10000000 ?
1056 2011-04-02 12:37:47 <sipa> should be 20999999.9769
1057 2011-04-02 12:37:49 xenon481 has joined
1058 2011-04-02 12:37:53 <tcatm> 20999999.999999899
1059 2011-04-02 12:37:58 <sipa> hmm
1060 2011-04-02 12:38:12 <tcatm> mhm mkay so I need to round the values while summing
1061 2011-04-02 12:38:19 <sipa> yes
1062 2011-04-02 12:38:44 <sipa> work with base units, round those down, multipla and sum them, and then divide by 1e8
1063 2011-04-02 12:38:52 comboy has joined
1064 2011-04-02 12:39:38 <tcatm> If it works with floats it'll be a good proof that floats in JSON are okay for bitcoins :)
1065 2011-04-02 12:39:55 <lfm> tcatm well doubles
1066 2011-04-02 12:40:26 <lfm> and yes doubles should be ok
1067 2011-04-02 12:40:30 <sipa> i'm not sure
1068 2011-04-02 12:40:37 <sipa> they should be, but you should be careful
1069 2011-04-02 12:42:46 <tcatm> mhm when using baseunits and int() I get 20999999.999992501 for 10000000
1070 2011-04-02 12:45:19 <tcatm> [5000000000, 2500000000, 1250000000, 625000000, 312500000, 156250000, 78125000, 39062500, 19531250, 9765625, 4882812, 2441406, 1220703, 610351, 305175, 152587, 76293, 38146, 19073, 9536, 4768, 2384, 1192, 596, 298, 149, 74, 37, 18, 9, 4, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0]
1071 2011-04-02 12:45:29 <tcatm> rewards per 210000 interval
1072 2011-04-02 12:45:41 <tcatm> per block :)
1073 2011-04-02 12:46:36 <sipa> .999992501... 9 decimals?
1074 2011-04-02 12:46:49 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rccaa3a619601 intersango/withdraw.php: BUGFIX: withdraw truncate is too excessive. http://tinyurl.com/3ncl7j7
1075 2011-04-02 12:46:50 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r6b3c8db2b62e intersango/cron/verify_withdrawals_bitcoin.php: BUGFIX: verif with truncate is too excessive. http://tinyurl.com/3uxudoo
1076 2011-04-02 12:46:53 <tcatm> probably caused by the /1e8
1077 2011-04-02 12:47:05 <tcatm> 2099999999999250 baseunits
1078 2011-04-02 12:48:16 <tcatm> hmm
1079 2011-04-02 12:49:45 <sipa> he last block that will generate coins will be block #6,929,999. This should be generated around year 2140. Then the total number of coins in circulation will remain static at 20,999,999.9769 BTC.
1080 2011-04-02 12:49:49 <sipa> from the wiki
1081 2011-04-02 12:50:14 <tcatm> 2099999874000000.0 for h = 10000000
1082 2011-04-02 12:56:05 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1083 2011-04-02 12:56:50 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * r0c9f84ecef2e intersango/withdraw.php: withdraw truncates before doing checks. http://tinyurl.com/4x2vfqe
1084 2011-04-02 13:00:23 gasteve_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1088 2011-04-02 13:13:34 <tcatm> sipa: f(h) = sum(min(21e4,(h+1)-21e4*k)*int(50e8/2**k),k,0,(int((h+1)/21e4)+1))/1e8 should be correct
1089 2011-04-02 13:16:54 RedCPU has joined
1090 2011-04-02 13:17:26 <sipa> what do you get at 10 million now?
1091 2011-04-02 13:17:53 <RedCPU> Hi
1092 2011-04-02 13:18:00 <RedCPU> is this for forex market?
1093 2011-04-02 13:18:36 <sipa> how do you mean?
1094 2011-04-02 13:18:46 <nathan7> HALT, IT IS THE TIME OF THE HAMMER
1095 2011-04-02 13:19:02 <tcatm> 20999999.9769
1096 2011-04-02 13:19:10 <RedCPU> dev. so it is a software channel
1097 2011-04-02 13:19:19 <tcatm> using doubles
1098 2011-04-02 13:19:32 <RedCPU> i came from economics room
1099 2011-04-02 13:19:50 <sipa> RedCPU: there's #bitcoin-otc, that's a bit less software-related
1100 2011-04-02 13:19:57 <sipa> or #bitcoin-discussion
1101 2011-04-02 13:20:33 <RedCPU> thanks, but before i go this software is it for share ?
1102 2011-04-02 13:20:47 <sipa> bitcoin is entirely free
1103 2011-04-02 13:20:57 <sipa> the software is open source
1104 2011-04-02 13:21:02 <nathan7> it is FREEEE
1105 2011-04-02 13:21:11 <nathan7> like in freedom
1106 2011-04-02 13:21:12 <nathan7> not beer
1107 2011-04-02 13:21:16 <nathan7> beer is untasty.
1108 2011-04-02 13:21:19 <sipa> actually, like in both
1109 2011-04-02 13:21:28 <nathan7> sipa: I don't know what freedom tastes like
1110 2011-04-02 13:21:43 <sipa> :D
1111 2011-04-02 13:21:53 * sipa liberates nathan7
1112 2011-04-02 13:22:05 <nathan7> whoa, WHOA
1113 2011-04-02 13:22:07 <nathan7> what is this place
1114 2011-04-02 13:22:17 <nathan7> is it is it outer space
1115 2011-04-02 13:23:58 <RedCPU> Thanks is it like egold
1116 2011-04-02 13:24:10 <nathan7> no, it's magical
1117 2011-04-02 13:24:16 <nathan7> No central authority
1118 2011-04-02 13:24:26 <nathan7> Only /you/ are in control of your money.
1119 2011-04-02 13:24:31 <nathan7> and if you lose it it's your own damn problem
1120 2011-04-02 13:24:37 <sipa> its value is determined by supply and demand
1121 2011-04-02 13:25:23 <RedCPU> so to use this software i open an account then send money to it! but from were i can buy i mean what websotre or website ?
1122 2011-04-02 13:25:42 <sipa> you don't open an account
1123 2011-04-02 13:25:43 <RedCPU> np i will ask in the discussion room
1124 2011-04-02 13:28:56 FellowTraveler has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1125 2011-04-02 13:30:33 Xunie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1126 2011-04-02 13:40:04 <luke-jr> ;;later tell BlueMatt security is completely left to the Wallet for the most part; there is nothing special/complicated about the suggested merchant account, which is only really for portable devices that the user is going to be using at retail stores in person
1127 2011-04-02 13:40:05 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1128 2011-04-02 13:41:27 <luke-jr> ;;later tell BlueMatt SPDY has nothing to do with merchants, and is useful primarily for user interfaces, which need multiple parallel requests. everything else can use HTTP.
1129 2011-04-02 13:41:27 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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1136 2011-04-02 13:56:06 <RedCPU> anyone have patent an invantion?
1137 2011-04-02 13:57:02 <RedCPU> or do you think i can find a chat room for invantors (people how invante new products)?
1138 2011-04-02 13:58:25 <nathan7> ##electronics invents shit all the time (=
1139 2011-04-02 13:59:42 <RedCPU> THanks nathan7 i forogot about electrnics people ! yes, it may help out
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1156 2011-04-02 14:44:14 <lfm> tcatm: sum k=0..1e6 floor(5e9/2^floor(k/21e4))*1e8
1157 2011-04-02 14:44:32 <ray7> is there someone i could talk to you in private about how e-currency works etc.
1158 2011-04-02 14:44:46 <lfm> ray why private?
1159 2011-04-02 14:44:57 <ray7> im shy
1160 2011-04-02 14:45:08 <lfm> no one is listening
1161 2011-04-02 14:47:07 <sipa> please, ask all you want :)
1162 2011-04-02 14:50:11 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1163 2011-04-02 14:54:57 Zenith77 has joined
1164 2011-04-02 14:55:05 <luke-jr> github is so annoyingly unreliable
1165 2011-04-02 14:55:24 <luke-jr> BitGit emails me like 100 times every day because repositories are unreachable
1166 2011-04-02 14:57:51 m00p has joined
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1169 2011-04-02 15:02:59 <lfm> I know it can be a problem in some places if you are cashing out too much money like that. I dont know what volume you are looking at
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1181 2011-04-02 15:42:57 <lfm> well the anonymity of bitcoin is somewhat limited. the actuall transactions are public knowledge, just who owns what bitcoin address is anonymous unless you reveal it. and you do have to reveal some addresses to make deals with your customers and with the moeny exchanges.
1182 2011-04-02 15:42:59 puddinpop has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1183 2011-04-02 15:44:06 <nathan7> lfm: you can have a new address for each transaction
1184 2011-04-02 15:45:00 <genjix> ray7: ask me if need be.
1185 2011-04-02 15:45:43 Strom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1186 2011-04-02 15:47:36 <mizerydearia> Would anyone be more intereted and/or more inclined to use the site, participate in the community if witcoin were open source?
1187 2011-04-02 15:47:44 * mizerydearia thinks genjix will agree immediately
1188 2011-04-02 15:47:47 <mizerydearia> Anyone else?
1189 2011-04-02 15:49:54 forrestv has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
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1192 2011-04-02 15:52:52 <genjix> mizerydearia: i dont know. dont want to pressure you into doing it (really :p mostly im half joking when i saw that)
1193 2011-04-02 15:53:18 <genjix> but it wont do harm, and it's good for everyone to share
1194 2011-04-02 15:53:32 <mizerydearia> Well
1195 2011-04-02 15:54:07 <mizerydearia> I have been contemplating that if it is established as open source, would it then possibly be more successful than it is now?
1196 2011-04-02 15:54:26 <mizerydearia> And not just for myself, but for everyone participating.
1197 2011-04-02 15:55:06 ray7 has left ()
1198 2011-04-02 15:55:11 <mizerydearia> Or does open sourcing not directly affect or offer more or less success?
1199 2011-04-02 15:55:43 <genjix> open sourcing is not magic pixel dust
1200 2011-04-02 15:55:49 <genjix> it's a different mindset
1201 2011-04-02 15:56:28 * mizerydearia agrees
1202 2011-04-02 15:56:31 puddinpop has joined
1203 2011-04-02 15:57:27 <mizerydearia> One thing I have been contemplating, is how to implement a fair distribution of profits for all open source contributors, each having their own level or amount of contributions, as well as each contribution requiring varying amounts of skill and time to accomplish.
1204 2011-04-02 15:57:50 <mizerydearia> It seems a bit complicated to think about
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1208 2011-04-02 16:09:56 <BurtyB> genjix problems with britcoin?
1209 2011-04-02 16:16:02 <genjix> BurtyB: is it not loading for you?
1210 2011-04-02 16:16:09 <genjix> seems fine here.
1211 2011-04-02 16:19:59 <genjix> it seems bitcoin has crashed... wtf
1212 2011-04-02 16:20:31 <BurtyB> genjix yeah sorry it wasn't loading and spitting out errors
1213 2011-04-02 16:20:46 KBme has joined
1214 2011-04-02 16:21:00 <genjix> thanks BurtyB. was it errors to do with timeouts or bitcoin?
1215 2011-04-02 16:21:43 <BurtyB> Warning: fopen(http://...@127.0.0.1:8332/): failed to open stream: HTTP request failed!...
1216 2011-04-02 16:22:57 <genjix> yep
1217 2011-04-02 16:23:22 <genjix> ok it is fixed. thanks for that.
1218 2011-04-02 16:24:17 * andrew12 waves
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1224 2011-04-02 16:35:36 <genjix> how comes the cost / btc on britcoin is 0.58, but the comparitive cost on mtgox (denominated USD -> GBP) is 0.48?
1225 2011-04-02 16:36:50 <genjix> high demand? then why is the volume low... doesn't make sense.
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1227 2011-04-02 16:37:55 <comboy> genjix: maybe it is less effiecient to mine in britain
1228 2011-04-02 16:38:12 <comboy> electronics price or electricity or smthg
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1242 2011-04-02 16:48:24 <Stellar> ;;bc,estimate
1243 2011-04-02 16:48:24 <gribble> 80187.10927727
1244 2011-04-02 16:48:32 <Stellar> o_0;
1245 2011-04-02 16:48:39 <Stellar> wtf..
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1248 2011-04-02 16:49:25 n0thin303 is now known as n0thing
1249 2011-04-02 16:49:39 <Stellar> ;;bc,stats
1250 2011-04-02 16:49:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116348 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 579 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 7 hours, 27 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 80187.10927727
1251 2011-04-02 16:51:20 <jasonphd> to test a proof of work, you double hash256 the submitted data and make sure that the result is less than the target difficulty..... but what exactly do you double hash? it doesn't appear to be a double hash of the entire submitted data, but only the first 160 characters or so, and it appears you need to reverse/flip it first, but i can't find any documentation detailing the exact process.
1252 2011-04-02 16:55:07 Pander has joined
1253 2011-04-02 16:55:10 <andrew12> ;;bc,mtgox
1254 2011-04-02 16:55:11 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.797,"low":0.7741,"vol":2260,"buy":0.7803,"sell":0.7944,"last":0.7802}}
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1262 2011-04-02 17:15:47 <luke-jr> _flow_: can I assist getting spesmilo into your overlay?
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1266 2011-04-02 17:26:21 <mjsbuddha> lively group today. i figured it would be more active after slush's pool went down last night
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1275 2011-04-02 17:41:55 <grbgout> What would you guys do with a 229Mhz laptop?
1276 2011-04-02 17:42:17 <grbgout> Depending on the power draw, I'll probably turn it into my primary bitcoind.
1277 2011-04-02 17:43:35 <grbgout> Perhaps this is a question better asked in -discussion.
1278 2011-04-02 17:44:02 <mjsbuddha> i can imagine a 230mhz laptop from the stone age coming close to even breaking even as far as cost of electic used to bitcoins made
1279 2011-04-02 17:44:18 <grbgout> mjsbuddha: I didn't say bitcoin miner.
1280 2011-04-02 17:44:38 <grbgout> Just running bitcoind. Acting as the local RPC.
1281 2011-04-02 17:44:46 <mjsbuddha> r
1282 2011-04-02 17:44:54 <mjsbuddha> my bad :P
1283 2011-04-02 17:45:28 ntosme2 has left ()
1284 2011-04-02 17:45:30 <grbgout> I haven't really read up on having a centrailized bitcoind for an entire LAN, though. So I thought I'd pose the idea here.
1285 2011-04-02 17:45:43 <grbgout> So, please, comments welcome.
1286 2011-04-02 17:46:03 <mjsbuddha> what would be the advantage of doing so?
1287 2011-04-02 17:46:16 <grbgout> I don't know. Not having it wasting cycles on my miner?
1288 2011-04-02 17:46:22 <grbgout> tying multiple miners together?
1289 2011-04-02 17:46:34 <grbgout> I don't really know, I haven't gotten that 'advanced' with bitcoining yet.
1290 2011-04-02 17:47:08 <mjsbuddha> well if its a relyable old laptop that doesnt look like it will kick the bucket i say go for it. i would backup the wallet though
1291 2011-04-02 17:47:36 <grbgout> I was planning on let it have its own wallet. Keep the existing wallet as is, and just letting it do its thing.
1292 2011-04-02 17:47:44 <grbgout> s/let/letting/
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1297 2011-04-02 17:51:28 <_flow_> luke-jr: sure, just join #bitcoin-gentoo
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1303 2011-04-02 17:57:44 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ping
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1320 2011-04-02 18:40:09 <jgarzik> this is why I hate boost:
1321 2011-04-02 18:40:11 <jgarzik> + fs::path pathConfig(GetArg("-pid", "bitcoind.pid"));
1322 2011-04-02 18:40:11 <jgarzik> 754
1323 2011-04-02 18:40:11 <jgarzik> + if (!pathConfig.is_complete())
1324 2011-04-02 18:40:11 <jgarzik> 755
1325 2011-04-02 18:40:11 <jgarzik> + pathConfig = fs::path(GetDataDir()) / pathConfig;
1326 2011-04-02 18:41:12 <jgarzik> 1 BTC to the first person who guesses what that last line of code is doing...
1327 2011-04-02 18:43:41 <grbgout> wtf. I have no clue, but that is some convoluted lookin' code. It has been ages since I did any C++, though: I mostly use C and Python these days.
1328 2011-04-02 18:43:44 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|wtf
1329 2011-04-02 18:43:55 <ArtForz> weird-ass syntax... something like pythons path.join() ?
1330 2011-04-02 18:44:15 <grbgout> But a division? wtf?
1331 2011-04-02 18:44:16 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|remove file-component and add pathConfig?
1332 2011-04-02 18:44:57 <grbgout> Is the division operator overloaded to do something obscure in that context?
1333 2011-04-02 18:45:30 <ArtForz> my guess is path a / path b *joins* paths
1334 2011-04-02 18:45:31 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|obviously
1335 2011-04-02 18:45:36 <grbgout> like remove part of the string? sometext-plus-more/sometext- = plus-more ?
1336 2011-04-02 18:46:03 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|my guess is A minus any file-component plus B
1337 2011-04-02 18:47:17 <grbgout> extract the PID maybe?
1338 2011-04-02 18:47:25 <ArtForz> looking at it long enough, it *has* to join paths
1339 2011-04-02 18:47:55 <ArtForz> pathConfig = specified by "-pid=", defalut "bitcoind.pid"
1340 2011-04-02 18:48:08 <grbgout> Man, if that's a path join, then I think I need to start brushin' up on my C++ again....
1341 2011-04-02 18:48:08 <ArtForz> is_complete ... no clue... checks if its a absolute path?
1342 2011-04-02 18:48:28 * mizerydearia glances at http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_31_0/libs/filesystem/doc/index.htm
1343 2011-04-02 18:48:38 <ArtForz> so if -pid= isnt a absolute path, it gets "smartly" appended to data dir path
1344 2011-04-02 18:49:12 <grbgout> ah, I see what you mean.
1345 2011-04-02 18:49:15 <ArtForz> so if you have datadir=/path/to/datadir and -pid=../whatever.pid you end up with /path/to/whatever.pid
1346 2011-04-02 18:49:32 <grbgout> I think it's time for me to go to bed. It didn't even register that the GetArg was looking for command line arguments >_<
1347 2011-04-02 18:49:39 <mizerydearia> The expressions arg_path / "foo/bar" and arg_path / "foo" / "bar" yield identical results.
1348 2011-04-02 18:50:04 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1349 2011-04-02 18:50:29 <ArtForz> whoever overloaded the division operator for that should be shot
1350 2011-04-02 18:51:07 <jgarzik> sorry, sigbaby.
1351 2011-04-02 18:51:14 <jgarzik> ArtForz gets the prize (btc addr?)
1352 2011-04-02 18:51:38 <grbgout> gj ArtForz
1353 2011-04-02 18:52:18 <grbgout> I never would have connected the division symbol to joining paths.
1354 2011-04-02 18:52:51 <grbgout> I mean.... I guess in some world it /could/ make sense, given the propensity for the forward slash to appear in paths, but...
1355 2011-04-02 18:53:13 <jgarzik> C++ abuse. Officially endorsed by boost, which is on its way to becoming the [expanded] standard C++ library.
1356 2011-04-02 18:53:21 <grbgout> yikes
1357 2011-04-02 18:53:22 <ArtForz> yeah
1358 2011-04-02 18:53:36 * grbgout thinks maybe he should stick with C and Python instead.
1359 2011-04-02 18:53:49 <ArtForz> even python which likes to opverload operators for standard library stuff uses path.join() for that
1360 2011-04-02 18:53:58 <jgarzik> C++ people are targetting boost as C++'s version of Perl's CPAN or python's standard library
1361 2011-04-02 18:54:02 <jgarzik> bleh
1362 2011-04-02 18:54:10 <grbgout> wow
1363 2011-04-02 18:54:35 <jgarzik> well, more like Perl's core set of popular CPAN modules
1364 2011-04-02 18:54:40 <jgarzik> CPAN was a poor analogy.
1365 2011-04-02 18:54:47 <grbgout> I thought boost was supposed to be the C++ super fast library thing.... Haven't looked at it in years, though. I guess that's changed --- or it never was that, and I just presumed as such due to its name.
1366 2011-04-02 18:55:00 <jgarzik> boost can be fast.
1367 2011-04-02 18:55:06 <ArtForz> I think boost is C++s kitchen sink
1368 2011-04-02 18:55:14 <jgarzik> it also tries to use every feature available in C++, which is the problem ;-)
1369 2011-04-02 18:55:18 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|consider how C++ always abused <<
1370 2011-04-02 18:55:19 <jgarzik> yep
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1374 2011-04-02 18:55:58 <ArtForz> yep, I also hate the overloaded ops for streams
1375 2011-04-02 18:55:59 <grbgout> luke-jr|otg: what does otg stand for?
1376 2011-04-02 18:56:05 <jgarzik> yep
1377 2011-04-02 18:56:26 <idnar> "on the go" maybe?
1378 2011-04-02 18:56:33 <grbgout> ah, that makes sense.
1379 2011-04-02 18:56:53 <jgarzik> On The Green, if he's golfing.
1380 2011-04-02 18:57:23 <grbgout> or on the ground, if he's drunk
1381 2011-04-02 18:57:52 jrabbit has joined
1382 2011-04-02 18:59:26 <jgarzik> Overloaded operators should be used -very- sparingly. The best-justified use is to -preserve- expected behavior, when creating (for example) a singleton numeric value class, which must support arith operators.
1383 2011-04-02 19:00:47 <jgarzik> But, inventing convenient shortcuts like using "<<" to build a CScript or "/" to build a file path is overboard. What saves the programmer two seconds of typing initially will, down the road, confuse 100 people.
1384 2011-04-02 19:01:02 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1387 2011-04-02 19:02:05 <Bogart> ;;bc,calc 992000
1388 2011-04-02 19:02:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 992000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 3 days, 10 hours, 57 minutes, and 31 seconds
1389 2011-04-02 19:03:19 ThrobbingPython has joined
1390 2011-04-02 19:03:31 <grbgout> -_-
1391 2011-04-02 19:03:58 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|grbgout, On The Go
1392 2011-04-02 19:04:05 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|grbgout, I am at the zoo
1393 2011-04-02 19:04:12 * grbgout taps his nose at idnar.
1394 2011-04-02 19:04:26 <grbgout> with the kids, or jsut for fun?
1395 2011-04-02 19:04:46 <Kiba> damn
1396 2011-04-02 19:04:57 <taco_the_paco> how many bitcoins would i generate in a week (if any) @ 2000 khash/sec (a friend wants to know)
1397 2011-04-02 19:04:58 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|jgarzik, standard C++ uses << for streams
1398 2011-04-02 19:05:09 <jgarzik> luke-jr|otg: yes, and it's bloody awful
1399 2011-04-02 19:05:15 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|grbgout, w family
1400 2011-04-02 19:05:19 <ArtForz> ;;bc,gen 2000
1401 2011-04-02 19:05:20 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.0291633670749 BTC per day and 0.00121514029479 BTC per hour.
1402 2011-04-02 19:05:31 <jgarzik> "<<" is left shift, darn it
1403 2011-04-02 19:05:40 <grbgout> jgarzik: hear, hear!
1404 2011-04-02 19:05:44 <ArtForz> about... 0.0291633670749 * 7 less pool fees
1405 2011-04-02 19:05:47 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|jgarzik, sure, but its precedance to justify boost
1406 2011-04-02 19:06:05 <jgarzik> abuse never justifies further abuse
1407 2011-04-02 19:06:26 <idnar> :D
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1416 2011-04-02 19:44:02 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|but part of the std makes it non abuse
1417 2011-04-02 19:44:36 <idnar> it's still abuse, even if it's official abuse :P
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1427 2011-04-02 20:03:57 <Penguin> ;;bc;gen;300000000
1428 2011-04-02 20:03:58 <gribble> Error: "bc;gen;300000000" is not a valid command.
1429 2011-04-02 20:04:17 <Penguin> ;;bc,ge,300000000
1430 2011-04-02 20:04:17 <gribble> Error: "bc,ge,300000000" is not a valid command.
1431 2011-04-02 20:04:28 <grbgout> ;;bc;gen 300000000
1432 2011-04-02 20:04:30 <gribble> Error: "bc;gen" is not a valid command.
1433 2011-04-02 20:04:36 <grbgout> ;;bc,gen 300000000
1434 2011-04-02 20:04:37 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 4374.50506123 BTC per day and 182.271044218 BTC per hour.
1435 2011-04-02 20:04:53 <grbgout> ;;bc,calc 300000000
1436 2011-04-02 20:04:54 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 16 minutes and 27 seconds
1437 2011-04-02 20:05:54 <Penguin> thanks
1438 2011-04-02 20:05:58 <grbgout> mhmm
1439 2011-04-02 20:06:08 <grbgout> Is that a pool's rate?
1440 2011-04-02 20:06:51 <Penguin> no, error on my part
1441 2011-04-02 20:07:14 <Penguin> ;;bc,gen 350000
1442 2011-04-02 20:07:15 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 350000 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 5.1035892381 BTC per day and 0.212649551587 BTC per hour.
1443 2011-04-02 20:07:57 <grbgout> ;;bc,gen 21572
1444 2011-04-02 20:07:58 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 21572 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.314556077269 BTC per day and 0.0131065032196 BTC per hour.
1445 2011-04-02 20:08:11 <grbgout> aw yeah, big money.
1446 2011-04-02 20:08:12 <phantomcircuit> /usr/lib64/libgdkmm-2.4.so.1.1.0 has incorrect md5sum
1447 2011-04-02 20:08:12 <phantomcircuit> rofl
1448 2011-04-02 20:08:14 <grbgout> ;P
1449 2011-04-02 20:08:26 <grbgout> phantomcircuit: ?
1450 2011-04-02 20:08:31 <phantomcircuit> dat black out
1451 2011-04-02 20:08:44 <phantomcircuit> i really should have a ups for at least a minute
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1456 2011-04-02 20:14:13 <BlueMatt> anyone sell upses for bitcoin?
1457 2011-04-02 20:14:31 <idnar> heh
1458 2011-04-02 20:14:52 <grbgout> I might have a spare one kicking around ... I'd have to check the battery, though --- I vaguely recall an issue with it.
1459 2011-04-02 20:15:30 <BlueMatt> I was joking, but I would buy one if you ship to .de
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1461 2011-04-02 20:16:53 <idnar> ;;bc,gen 16988
1462 2011-04-02 20:16:55 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 16988 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 0.247713639934 BTC per day and 0.0103214016639 BTC per hour.
1463 2011-04-02 20:17:04 <idnar> ;;bc,calc 16988
1464 2011-04-02 20:17:05 <grbgout> I'll check it out tomorrow --- either the battery is problematic or non-existant: I can't recall if I ditched the one I found (that had no battery), or if the one I have left is just some misc ups. Anyway, I'll check the weight and get back to you.
1465 2011-04-02 20:17:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 16988 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 28 weeks, 5 days, 20 hours, 18 minutes, and 11 seconds
1466 2011-04-02 20:18:41 <grbgout> ;;bc,calc 21572
1467 2011-04-02 20:18:42 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 21572 Khps, given current difficulty of 68978.89245792 , is 22 weeks, 4 days, 22 hours, 54 minutes, and 0 seconds
1468 2011-04-02 20:19:04 <genjix> best buy has a bitcoin page for april fools
1469 2011-04-02 20:19:08 <genjix> *had
1470 2011-04-02 20:19:16 <jrabbit> lol.
1471 2011-04-02 20:19:17 <grbgout> genjix: seriously?
1472 2011-04-02 20:19:35 <jrabbit> publically or internal only?
1473 2011-04-02 20:19:41 <BlueMatt> For some reason I seem to think that is a delayed april fools joke...
1474 2011-04-02 20:19:52 <genjix> yes
1475 2011-04-02 20:20:02 <genjix> it was up yesterday
1476 2011-04-02 20:20:04 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1477 2011-04-02 20:20:05 <genjix> on geeksquad
1478 2011-04-02 20:20:14 <genjix> > > > http://www.geeksquad.com/services/Brain-Chip.aspx
1479 2011-04-02 20:20:39 <genjix> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YSRuIEoBh6YJ:www.geeksquad.com/services/Brain-Chip.aspx+geeksquad+brain+chip&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&lr=lang_eo|lang_en&source=www.google.co.uk
1480 2011-04-02 20:20:43 <genjix> google cache
1481 2011-04-02 20:20:51 <phantomcircuit> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?sclient=psy&hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.geeksquad.com%2Fservices%2FBrain-Chip.aspx&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1
1482 2011-04-02 20:20:51 <BlueMatt> ha, that is amazing
1483 2011-04-02 20:21:26 <BlueMatt> how much you want to bet the person who wrote that doesnt even know there is actually something called bitcoin
1484 2011-04-02 20:21:45 <phantomcircuit> im sure they do know
1485 2011-04-02 20:21:59 <phantomcircuit> things like that get super ridiculously over analyzed by legal
1486 2011-04-02 20:22:01 <BlueMatt> really? some random advertising firm has heard of bitcoin?
1487 2011-04-02 20:22:02 <BlueMatt> I doubt it
1488 2011-04-02 20:22:09 <BlueMatt> well legal found it
1489 2011-04-02 20:22:18 <BlueMatt> but Id bet the person who wrote it had never heard of it
1490 2011-04-02 20:22:19 <genjix> so they just lucked out on the term 'bitcoins'?
1491 2011-04-02 20:22:32 <genjix> obviously it's a joke... geddit? GEEKsquad
1492 2011-04-02 20:23:06 <BlueMatt> yes genjix that is why I say I doubt they know what bitcoin is
1493 2011-04-02 20:23:25 <BlueMatt> and just lucked out on bitcoins
1494 2011-04-02 20:23:33 <BlueMatt> but then again I have no idea and it doesnt really matter either way...
1495 2011-04-02 20:24:28 <BlueMatt> In any case I prefer the "Hoverboard Levitron Calibration"
1496 2011-04-02 20:29:10 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1502 2011-04-02 20:34:13 <jrabbit> Cote d'ivoire bonds shot up 29% on news of the civil war... I wonder who made that money.
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1520 2011-04-02 21:04:31 <idnar> what is the difference between comment and comment-to in the sendfrom/sendtoaddress commands?
1521 2011-04-02 21:04:42 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1522 2011-04-02 21:05:04 <BlueMatt> they are just two different text fields
1523 2011-04-02 21:05:11 <BlueMatt> which are never sent outside of your client
1524 2011-04-02 21:05:31 <BlueMatt> they are typically used as comment and "to whom" respectively
1525 2011-04-02 21:05:59 <idnar> so as far as how the software handles them, there's no difference?
1526 2011-04-02 21:06:17 <idnar> (ugh, that sentence was awkward)
1527 2011-04-02 21:06:32 <BlueMatt> afaik yes
1528 2011-04-02 21:07:14 <idnar> okay, thanks
1529 2011-04-02 21:07:34 knotwork has joined
1530 2011-04-02 21:08:27 <lfm> the comments are sent if you send to an ip address instead of a bitcoin address
1531 2011-04-02 21:08:44 <BlueMatt> ah, good point, but you should never do ip sends so...
1532 2011-04-02 21:09:16 <lfm> well dont do it is there is any concern for security
1533 2011-04-02 21:09:28 <BlueMatt> its sending money, when is there not?
1534 2011-04-02 21:09:50 <lfm> if you are transferring between your own machines on your lan
1535 2011-04-02 21:10:46 <BlueMatt> meh, still better to use addresses just because you never know
1536 2011-04-02 21:10:47 <lfm> or if you are sending such small amounts that no one would go to the effort of stealing it
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1539 2011-04-02 21:11:54 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * rb1cbe40428f6 intersango/scr/unit.sh: display bitcoin balance in unit test http://tinyurl.com/3f25y8q
1540 2011-04-02 21:11:54 <CIA-96> bitcoin: genjix * ra83bb8b9906d intersango/scr/unit.sh: help text saying 'bitcoin balance' in unit test http://tinyurl.com/43ule3h
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1544 2011-04-02 21:35:48 <Keefe> anyone know off-hand whether it is technically possible to edit bitcoin's miner code to have the newly generated coins go to an address for which i don't hold the priv key?
1545 2011-04-02 21:36:10 <Diablo-D3> I wanna say no
1546 2011-04-02 21:36:12 <Keefe> iow, does the coinbase txn need to be signed in any way?
1547 2011-04-02 21:36:22 <sipa> no
1548 2011-04-02 21:36:36 <Keefe> no to which question?
1549 2011-04-02 21:36:36 <sipa> you just need to public key of the address to which it goes
1550 2011-04-02 21:36:41 <Keefe> ah
1551 2011-04-02 21:36:43 <sipa> but it's not the miner that does this
1552 2011-04-02 21:36:44 <jgarzik> yeah
1553 2011-04-02 21:36:48 <sipa> bit the getwork() call
1554 2011-04-02 21:36:50 <Keefe> hmm?
1555 2011-04-02 21:36:51 <sipa> but
1556 2011-04-02 21:36:56 <Keefe> i'm talking about solo mining
1557 2011-04-02 21:36:59 <sipa> yes
1558 2011-04-02 21:37:09 <tcatm> CreateNewBlock() Line 3319
1559 2011-04-02 21:37:10 <sipa> your miner does a getwork() call to bitcoind
1560 2011-04-02 21:37:15 <Keefe> right
1561 2011-04-02 21:37:29 <jgarzik> puddinpop's pool code modified bitcoind to send payouts to bitcoin addresses, rather than the standard coinbase generation transaction
1562 2011-04-02 21:37:30 <Keefe> thanks guys :)
1563 2011-04-02 21:37:34 <sipa> so if you ask whether it's easy to modify the miner to change this: no; because the miner doesn't even know that address
1564 2011-04-02 21:37:37 <Keefe> ah, right
1565 2011-04-02 21:37:42 <jgarzik> Keefe: maybe that's something you might want to look at
1566 2011-04-02 21:37:50 <sipa> but it is very easy to modify bitcoind to do that
1567 2011-04-02 21:38:07 <tcatm> Looks like you can even call CreateNewBlock() with the key as an argument
1568 2011-04-02 21:38:22 <Keefe> ya, i was just asking if it's technically possible. i knew i'd have to hack it
1569 2011-04-02 21:38:35 <Keefe> puddingpop's code would prove it's possible
1570 2011-04-02 21:39:28 <Keefe> i bring this up because i believe there's an interest in virgin coins
1571 2011-04-02 21:39:36 <tcatm> You don't need any code to proof it. Just look at how transactions work: Inputs are not signed with the outputs's key ;)
1572 2011-04-02 21:39:45 <jgarzik> tcatm: yep. CReserveKey is a public key. It's easy to pass a single public key to CreateNewBlock()
1573 2011-04-02 21:39:50 <sipa> Keefe: i wrote a separate library that calculates merkle roots for use in block headers, and it also just takes a pubkey as imput
1574 2011-04-02 21:39:55 <jgarzik> Keefe: ^^
1575 2011-04-02 21:39:58 <Keefe> i might be able to sell never-spent coins by having my miner target the buyer's addr
1576 2011-04-02 21:40:15 <sipa> why bother?
1577 2011-04-02 21:40:29 <sipa> just give them the private key to the block afterwards ;)
1578 2011-04-02 21:40:36 <jgarzik> yep
1579 2011-04-02 21:40:42 <Keefe> cause then they have to trust i won't spend it
1580 2011-04-02 21:40:48 <Keefe> if they plan to keep it for a while
1581 2011-04-02 21:41:46 <Keefe> tcatm: true, but i wasn't sure if the "coinbase" txn was special in a way that required a sig
1582 2011-04-02 21:41:47 <jgarzik> Keefe: that's inherent in any scheme where you are providing bitcoins / generated transactions
1583 2011-04-02 21:42:03 <jgarzik> Keefe: coinbase sends to an address you own
1584 2011-04-02 21:42:48 <Keefe> if the buyer gives me only the pub key to his addr, i can have my miner create blocks rewarding that addr and i will have no control of the coins in any way after that
1585 2011-04-02 21:43:14 <jgarzik> txNew.vout[0].scriptPubKey << reservekey.GetReservedKey() << OP_CHECKSIG;
1586 2011-04-02 21:43:44 <jgarzik> Keefe: true...
1587 2011-04-02 21:44:45 <Keefe> it's as solid as a normal bitcoin txn, but has the benefit of absolutely no blockchain history
1588 2011-04-02 21:45:07 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|how is that a benefit
1589 2011-04-02 21:45:18 <Keefe> i personally don't value that, but i know some do
1590 2011-04-02 21:46:39 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1591 2011-04-02 21:46:46 <Keefe> i only value that to the extent i can sell it for a premium :)
1592 2011-04-02 21:46:59 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|hah
1593 2011-04-02 21:47:01 <Keefe> of course the timing of such a trade is tricky
1594 2011-04-02 21:47:25 <Keefe> fortunately i make about 10 blocks a week, so it's not too bad
1595 2011-04-02 21:47:40 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|;.;
1596 2011-04-02 21:47:51 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|I make 1 every 2wk
1597 2011-04-02 21:48:04 <genjix> can someone tell me why it's customary for C programmers to always declare their variables at the beginning of a block?
1598 2011-04-02 21:48:13 <Keefe> someone can give me dirty 50 BTC, and i can tell them to expect a clean 50 to show up at their addr within a day or two, maybe 3
1599 2011-04-02 21:48:17 <genjix> (is there a reason or is it just style?)
1600 2011-04-02 21:48:33 tabsa has joined
1601 2011-04-02 21:48:52 <idnar> genjix: I think originally, variable declarations had to come before any other statement in a block
1602 2011-04-02 21:48:54 <Keefe> genjix: scope maybe?
1603 2011-04-02 21:49:00 <tcatm> genjix: it makes the code easier to read
1604 2011-04-02 21:49:02 <idnar> not sure at which point that changed
1605 2011-04-02 21:49:16 <genjix> ic. thanks
1606 2011-04-02 21:49:25 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|genjix, it used to be required
1607 2011-04-02 21:49:30 <genjix> gonna go with idnar's answer :p
1608 2011-04-02 21:49:34 <Keefe> oh, nvm, i thought you meant block vs module
1609 2011-04-02 21:49:35 <genjix> ok thanks luke-jr|otg
1610 2011-04-02 21:49:40 <idnar> ah, it looks like C99 lifted the restriction
1611 2011-04-02 21:49:53 <sipa> in C89 you can't have statements before the declarations, i think
1612 2011-04-02 21:50:12 <genjix> tcatm: not really. no modern language has that tradition except C
1613 2011-04-02 21:50:16 <Keefe> variable declarations? or function declarations?
1614 2011-04-02 21:50:21 <idnar> so if you're writing C89 code, you *have* to put them there, and even if you're writing C99 code, you might still like the old style for various reasons (habit, "I find it easier to read", etc.)
1615 2011-04-02 21:50:27 <genjix> variable declarations Keefe
1616 2011-04-02 21:50:31 <sipa> personally, i don't use that custom anymore
1617 2011-04-02 21:50:55 <genjix> k thanks all
1618 2011-04-02 21:51:01 <Keefe> idnar: and C99 lets you declare a variable *after its use? that's just weird
1619 2011-04-02 21:51:14 <idnar> Keefe: no, but it lets you declare it after other statements
1620 2011-04-02 21:51:35 <idnar> Keefe: eg. { printf("hi mom"); int c; c = 5; printf("%d", c); }
1621 2011-04-02 21:51:43 <idnar> that's legal C99, but illegal C89
1622 2011-04-02 21:51:56 <tcatm> genjix: when reading code it helps to have an overview about all used variables
1623 2011-04-02 21:51:58 <Keefe> ah, i didn't even know that was illegal in C89
1624 2011-04-02 21:52:13 <genjix> Keefe: void foo() { int i; ... for (i = 0; .. } vs void foo() { ... for (int i = 0; ... }
1625 2011-04-02 21:52:53 <Keefe> guess that would be ok in C89 because i's scope is only the for loop?
1626 2011-04-02 21:53:09 <idnar> the scope is the enclosing block, that's why it's a problem
1627 2011-04-02 21:53:24 <idnar> or... wait
1628 2011-04-02 21:53:30 <idnar> bleh, my C/C++ is really rusty
1629 2011-04-02 21:53:33 <Keefe> guess my weak C skills are showing :)
1630 2011-04-02 21:53:43 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|also C99 lets you use variables in arrays
1631 2011-04-02 21:53:44 <Keefe> my "native" language is vb.net
1632 2011-04-02 21:53:52 <genjix> scope is only between { ... }
1633 2011-04-02 21:54:00 <genjix> in C/C++
1634 2011-04-02 21:54:18 <idnar> my language of choice was C++ for like a million years; then somebody finally hit me over the head hard enough to make me explore other higher-level languages, and I haven't written much C/C++ since
1635 2011-04-02 21:54:35 <Keefe> what's your fav now?
1636 2011-04-02 21:54:39 <Diablo-D3> heh
1637 2011-04-02 21:54:42 <Diablo-D3> c++ was always a pile of shit
1638 2011-04-02 21:54:44 subpar_ has joined
1639 2011-04-02 21:54:44 <genjix> C++ is still good for many things
1640 2011-04-02 21:54:45 <Diablo-D3> who are you kidding
1641 2011-04-02 21:54:49 <genjix> python for everything else
1642 2011-04-02 21:54:52 <genjix> php for web dev
1643 2011-04-02 21:55:04 <Diablo-D3> php is shit, genjix
1644 2011-04-02 21:55:08 <Keefe> i'm a .Net fan, but python is cool
1645 2011-04-02 21:55:10 <Diablo-D3> who the fuck seriously considers php for anything
1646 2011-04-02 21:55:10 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|size_t Len = strlen(foo); char new[++Len];
1647 2011-04-02 21:55:19 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr
1648 2011-04-02 21:55:23 <genjix> MagicalTux loves php :)
1649 2011-04-02 21:55:26 <Diablo-D3> dont capitalize your fucking variables
1650 2011-04-02 21:55:52 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Diablo-D3, I did it just for you
1651 2011-04-02 21:55:52 <genjix> luke-jr|otg: seriously, that's unthinkable not being able to use variables to index arrays...
1652 2011-04-02 21:55:54 <Diablo-D3> and order dependant initialization is not calid in C
1653 2011-04-02 21:55:56 <Diablo-D3> er, valid
1654 2011-04-02 21:56:26 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|genjix, you used to have to use malloc
1655 2011-04-02 21:56:28 <JFK911> oh no code style fight
1656 2011-04-02 21:56:28 <Diablo-D3> that char new[] is initalized on the stack before entering the scope
1657 2011-04-02 21:56:31 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Diablo-D3, was*
1658 2011-04-02 21:56:37 <genjix> new is a c++ construct
1659 2011-04-02 21:56:42 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Diablo-D3, impossible
1660 2011-04-02 21:56:44 <genjix> he wasnt using new though
1661 2011-04-02 21:56:46 <Diablo-D3> genjix: no, he named the variable new
1662 2011-04-02 21:56:55 <genjix> char new[blaa];
1663 2011-04-02 21:56:57 <JFK911> don't cap any vars! and each var must start with a letter showing his type. And vowels take up too much space so leave vowels out of var names.
1664 2011-04-02 21:56:58 <genjix> right.
1665 2011-04-02 21:57:07 <idnar> Keefe: hmm
1666 2011-04-02 21:57:14 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|JFK911, no
1667 2011-04-02 21:57:16 <genjix> JFK911: hahah go fuck your hungarian buddies
1668 2011-04-02 21:57:18 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: var? no
1669 2011-04-02 21:57:18 <idnar> Keefe: my *favourite* is Haskell, but I mostly write Python code
1670 2011-04-02 21:57:22 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1671 2011-04-02 21:57:23 <Diablo-D3> thats really ugly code
1672 2011-04-02 21:57:35 <Diablo-D3> and you already know the type of the variable, its been declared.
1673 2011-04-02 21:57:47 <genjix> m_iCounter >>> UGLY!
1674 2011-04-02 21:58:14 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|comboboxNmbrSstm
1675 2011-04-02 21:58:29 <genjix> i = interface, integer or index?
1676 2011-04-02 21:58:30 <idnar> Keefe: the py3k disaster might just give me the opportunity I need to start switching all of my code over to Haskell, though
1677 2011-04-02 21:58:35 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|cmbbxNmbrSstm
1678 2011-04-02 21:58:46 <genjix> lol
1679 2011-04-02 21:58:47 <JFK911> genjix: tru, was reading folklore last night :)
1680 2011-04-02 21:58:47 <Diablo-D3> python is dead
1681 2011-04-02 21:58:59 <genjix> hahahah gfy
1682 2011-04-02 21:59:02 <genjix> as if
1683 2011-04-02 21:59:06 <genjix> java is dead
1684 2011-04-02 21:59:11 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|I hate Python
1685 2011-04-02 21:59:14 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: er, a lot of people are reading folklore lately, why?
1686 2011-04-02 21:59:15 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|and Java
1687 2011-04-02 21:59:29 <genjix> smells language war in here
1688 2011-04-02 21:59:32 <Diablo-D3> I mean, its really worth reading
1689 2011-04-02 21:59:39 <Diablo-D3> but I read that before the book was even out
1690 2011-04-02 21:59:54 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|all hail Perl!!!!!
1691 2011-04-02 22:00:07 <genjix> Diablo-D3: +Java -Python -PHP, luke-jr|otg: -Java -Python +Perl, Me: -Java +Python +PHP -Perl
1692 2011-04-02 22:00:20 <genjix> that's our battle statistics
1693 2011-04-02 22:00:33 <Diablo-D3> genjix: no, add +Perl to me
1694 2011-04-02 22:00:33 <JFK911> Diablo-D3: Not sure, I simply stumbled across it when I was reading about electronics or something
1695 2011-04-02 22:00:36 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|but mine weigh more
1696 2011-04-02 22:01:01 <genjix> Diablo-D3: +Java -Python -PHP +Perl, luke-jr|otg: -Java -Python +Perl, Me: -Java +Python +PHP -Perl
1697 2011-04-02 22:01:17 <genjix> someone make a venn diagram
1698 2011-04-02 22:01:17 <Keefe> +.Net -Perl +Python -Java
1699 2011-04-02 22:01:25 <Diablo-D3> add -.Net to me
1700 2011-04-02 22:01:29 * luke-jr otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|smacks Keefe
1701 2011-04-02 22:01:29 <genjix> -.Net
1702 2011-04-02 22:01:34 <genjix> u lose
1703 2011-04-02 22:01:34 subpar has joined
1704 2011-04-02 22:01:34 subpar has quit (Changing host)
1705 2011-04-02 22:01:34 subpar has joined
1706 2011-04-02 22:01:34 <Diablo-D3> and generally, add -.Net to any that is +Java
1707 2011-04-02 22:01:34 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|-.Net
1708 2011-04-02 22:01:38 <JFK911> +Thumb +Pascal +BASIC +RPN
1709 2011-04-02 22:01:40 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|lol
1710 2011-04-02 22:01:50 <JFK911> oh +LOGO
1711 2011-04-02 22:01:51 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|+RPN
1712 2011-04-02 22:01:51 <genjix> +QBASIC
1713 2011-04-02 22:01:59 <genjix> i can attest to that
1714 2011-04-02 22:02:03 <Diablo-D3> C# exists so Java coders can code Java while hating FOSS
1715 2011-04-02 22:02:06 <genjix> got me into programming as a child
1716 2011-04-02 22:02:18 <BlueMatt> arg why the fuck is named getting servfails from servers it shouldnt be querying in the first place
1717 2011-04-02 22:02:19 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Java != FOSS
1718 2011-04-02 22:02:20 <Keefe> hey, you forget mono
1719 2011-04-02 22:02:22 <JFK911> i was mad when they took away line numbers
1720 2011-04-02 22:02:24 <Diablo-D3> Java == FOSS
1721 2011-04-02 22:02:29 <idnar> *groan* how did this turn into a language flamewar?
1722 2011-04-02 22:02:31 <Diablo-D3> btw, QBASIC isnt BASIC
1723 2011-04-02 22:02:45 <BlueMatt> idnar: it always does, welcome to the wonderful world of #bitcoin-dev
1724 2011-04-02 22:02:49 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|MBASIC anyone?
1725 2011-04-02 22:02:55 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1726 2011-04-02 22:03:02 <Keefe> PowerBASIC
1727 2011-04-02 22:03:12 <JFK911> REXX?
1728 2011-04-02 22:03:14 <idnar> BASICA!
1729 2011-04-02 22:03:18 <Diablo-D3> QBasic is a stripped down version of QuickBasic, which is a structured variant of Basic thats borderline OO
1730 2011-04-02 22:03:23 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Diablo-D3, QBASIC is the de facto BASIC standard
1731 2011-04-02 22:03:26 <JFK911> yeah, qbasic had no compiler
1732 2011-04-02 22:03:35 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr|otg: no its not
1733 2011-04-02 22:03:38 <Keefe> i learned programming in PBASIC
1734 2011-04-02 22:03:40 <genjix> QBASIC -> Assembler -> BlitzBasic -> C++ -> Perl -> PHP -> Python -> Lisp -> Ruby
1735 2011-04-02 22:03:42 <Diablo-D3> structured Basics are barely Basic at all
1736 2011-04-02 22:03:49 <JFK911> i pirated quickbasic by buying it from a game store, copying hte disks, and returning it saying it wouldnt run on my c64
1737 2011-04-02 22:03:51 <genjix> languages i learnt in chronological order
1738 2011-04-02 22:03:52 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|QBASIC is short for QuickBasic
1739 2011-04-02 22:03:59 <JFK911> wellll
1740 2011-04-02 22:03:59 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr|otg: no its not
1741 2011-04-02 22:04:04 <JFK911> the qbasic that came with dos had no compiler
1742 2011-04-02 22:04:07 subpar_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1743 2011-04-02 22:04:10 <genjix> QBASIC is not OO at all
1744 2011-04-02 22:04:11 <JFK911> quickbasic was separate shrinkwrap + book
1745 2011-04-02 22:04:15 <idnar> luke-jr|otg: qbasic is a subset of quickbasic
1746 2011-04-02 22:04:15 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Quick was just a newer ver
1747 2011-04-02 22:04:19 <genjix> i used to code using PRINT and GOTO
1748 2011-04-02 22:04:21 <genjix> nothing else
1749 2011-04-02 22:04:29 <idnar> luke-jr|otg: they basically stripped quickbasic down to include as a free version with MS-DOS
1750 2011-04-02 22:04:36 <Diablo-D3> yeah what idnar said
1751 2011-04-02 22:04:38 <genjix> made fighting games that way
1752 2011-04-02 22:04:39 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|genjix, the last ver was semiOO
1753 2011-04-02 22:04:43 <JFK911> genjix: wrote 350,000 lines of print and goto, then he discovered loops!
1754 2011-04-02 22:04:55 <Diablo-D3> the last version of the quickbasic family was semiOO
1755 2011-04-02 22:04:58 <genjix> nope not until BlitzBasic
1756 2011-04-02 22:05:06 <sipa> GWBASIC -> QBASIC -> VB -> C -> Perl -> Java -> PHP -> Haskell
1757 2011-04-02 22:05:10 <idnar> heh, the first programming environment I ever used was QuickBASIC for Mac (running on a Macintosh Plus)
1758 2011-04-02 22:05:16 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|QB has classes
1759 2011-04-02 22:05:18 <Diablo-D3> they backported the shit from Visual Basic
1760 2011-04-02 22:05:24 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1761 2011-04-02 22:05:25 <idnar> or... maybe running on a Macintosh II? first computer I ever used was a Mac Plus, though
1762 2011-04-02 22:05:37 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|I have VB for DOS somewhere
1763 2011-04-02 22:05:38 <Diablo-D3> idnar: that was a non-native port though
1764 2011-04-02 22:05:47 <genjix> if QB is such a great teaching tool, maybe it should be bundled with every linux OS for beginners?
1765 2011-04-02 22:05:49 <Diablo-D3> VB for DOS was insane
1766 2011-04-02 22:05:54 <Diablo-D3> genjix: its not
1767 2011-04-02 22:06:03 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|genjix, ok but not MS ver
1768 2011-04-02 22:06:04 <idnar> Diablo-D3: how do you mean non-native?
1769 2011-04-02 22:06:06 <genjix> why not, it should be.
1770 2011-04-02 22:06:14 <Diablo-D3> idnar: as in, it was a pile of shit ported badly
1771 2011-04-02 22:06:19 <genjix> im asking if it should be.
1772 2011-04-02 22:06:23 <genjix> sounds like a great plan.
1773 2011-04-02 22:06:26 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|genjix, no
1774 2011-04-02 22:06:29 <Diablo-D3> genjix: it teaches bad programming
1775 2011-04-02 22:06:30 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1776 2011-04-02 22:06:32 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|teach Perl
1777 2011-04-02 22:06:33 <genjix> doesnt matter
1778 2011-04-02 22:06:36 <idnar> Diablo-D3: that's a bit of an odd definition of "native" :P
1779 2011-04-02 22:06:47 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1780 2011-04-02 22:06:50 <genjix> everyone starts out being bad
1781 2011-04-02 22:07:03 <genjix> it depends how quickly they can make useful stuff without being frustrated.
1782 2011-04-02 22:07:08 <Diablo-D3> idnar: mac had native stuff, that wasnt one of them
1783 2011-04-02 22:07:30 <Diablo-D3> genjix: except basic teaches you to program in ways that just arent useful
1784 2011-04-02 22:07:38 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|lol
1785 2011-04-02 22:07:42 <Diablo-D3> programming isnt about learning a language, its about how to think.
1786 2011-04-02 22:07:44 <genjix> QBASIC was VERY easy. that got me into disassembling using windows TEST.exe which turned me into coding.
1787 2011-04-02 22:07:48 <Diablo-D3> if you dont think right, you cant program right either
1788 2011-04-02 22:07:51 <Diablo-D3> its not language specific.
1789 2011-04-02 22:07:55 <idnar> Diablo-D3: the usual usage of "non-native" is to refer to something running in some kind of emulated or compatibility environment
1790 2011-04-02 22:08:01 <idnar> I don't see how that applies here
1791 2011-04-02 22:08:03 <Diablo-D3> basic, fundamentally, teaches you to think wrong.
1792 2011-04-02 22:08:05 <genjix> so let me get this right.
1793 2011-04-02 22:08:12 <Diablo-D3> idnar: giant runtime libs.
1794 2011-04-02 22:08:13 <genjix> you're the coder ubermensch?
1795 2011-04-02 22:08:27 <Diablo-D3> genjix: Ive been coding long enough to make informed statements on the subject, yes
1796 2011-04-02 22:08:27 <genjix> and only the master race is allowed to code.
1797 2011-04-02 22:08:40 <genjix> those plebians should stay away.
1798 2011-04-02 22:08:50 <idnar> Diablo-D3: QuickBASIC had giant runtime libs everywhere
1799 2011-04-02 22:08:51 <Diablo-D3> genjix: woah, go take your leather nazi fetish elsewhere
1800 2011-04-02 22:08:59 <Diablo-D3> idnar: yeah, but that IS normal for dos/windows ;)
1801 2011-04-02 22:09:16 <idnar> Diablo-D3: libc is pretty big too :P
1802 2011-04-02 22:09:19 <genjix> cmon, give a 12 year old kid a way to make cool stuff and he'll want more.
1803 2011-04-02 22:09:21 <JFK911> i think people shouldnt learn basic, they should learn assembly instead
1804 2011-04-02 22:09:27 <Diablo-D3> idnar: depends which libc
1805 2011-04-02 22:09:40 <Diablo-D3> idnar: glibc is a bloated mess, but no one uses that on platforms where it matters
1806 2011-04-02 22:09:45 <genjix> you don't say you need to learn X Y Z first. they'll just give up and play basketball instead
1807 2011-04-02 22:09:53 <idnar> anyhow whatever, I'm not trying to say anything *good* about QuickBASIC for Mac
1808 2011-04-02 22:09:55 <Diablo-D3> idnar: and some desktop distros have dropped it, like Alpine
1809 2011-04-02 22:10:03 paco_the_taco has joined
1810 2011-04-02 22:10:08 <idnar> I just found your choice of wording curious
1811 2011-04-02 22:10:15 <Diablo-D3> and bsds still use descendants of libc5, which is much skinnier
1812 2011-04-02 22:10:27 <Diablo-D3> idnar: microsoft brought quickbasic to macs to try to destroy macs
1813 2011-04-02 22:10:38 <JFK911> destroy mac?
1814 2011-04-02 22:10:46 <JFK911> must have been after windows 3
1815 2011-04-02 22:10:46 <Diablo-D3> its no different than a non-native species of animal wiping out native ones.
1816 2011-04-02 22:11:00 <idnar> I didn't actually do all that much with QuickBASIC for Mac
1817 2011-04-02 22:11:04 tower has joined
1818 2011-04-02 22:11:11 <JFK911> i think until the mid 90s and windows 3, ms needed mac to sell Word and stuff
1819 2011-04-02 22:11:18 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: microsoft has always been trying to hone in on the apple market, alternating between flat out destruction and just selling worse shit at higher prices
1820 2011-04-02 22:11:28 <idnar> I wrote a lot of (very amateurish) code in QBASIC / DOS, and a lot of (very amateurish) code in Borland Object C on the Mac
1821 2011-04-02 22:11:38 <JFK911> i dont know how selling 'worse' for 'more' is going to break apple market
1822 2011-04-02 22:11:49 <JFK911> actually i think you described apple
1823 2011-04-02 22:11:52 <Diablo-D3> idnar: yet you learned far more with Borland C than you did with Basic
1824 2011-04-02 22:11:56 <JFK911> because they selling shit x86 boxes for mainframe prices
1825 2011-04-02 22:12:07 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|JFK911++
1826 2011-04-02 22:12:13 <genjix> idnar: Borland <3
1827 2011-04-02 22:12:33 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|PPC ftw
1828 2011-04-02 22:12:36 <JFK911> true
1829 2011-04-02 22:12:44 <genjix> my first c++ & delphi compiler
1830 2011-04-02 22:12:52 <genjix> shit, what happened to delphi?
1831 2011-04-02 22:12:56 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: you imply Microsoft and Alpha are different
1832 2011-04-02 22:13:00 <genjix> used to be popular during my time...
1833 2011-04-02 22:13:03 <Diablo-D3> delphi hasnt "died"
1834 2011-04-02 22:13:07 jackSmith has joined
1835 2011-04-02 22:13:08 <JFK911> genjix: they still use it
1836 2011-04-02 22:13:13 <genjix> nostalgia overload
1837 2011-04-02 22:13:26 <JFK911> i was a turbo c user
1838 2011-04-02 22:13:28 <Diablo-D3> borland sold it to someone
1839 2011-04-02 22:13:31 <Diablo-D3> and they sold it to someone else
1840 2011-04-02 22:13:46 <jgarzik> go, turbo pascal!
1841 2011-04-02 22:13:48 <Diablo-D3> the pascal community as a whole still exists, though
1842 2011-04-02 22:13:53 <JFK911> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embarcadero_Delphi
1843 2011-04-02 22:13:53 <jgarzik> WWIV BBS's
1844 2011-04-02 22:14:00 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: ding
1845 2011-04-02 22:14:03 <JFK911> wasnt wwiv written in c
1846 2011-04-02 22:14:09 <JFK911> i think it maybe was
1847 2011-04-02 22:14:21 <Diablo-D3> Delphi was kind of strange though, it was focused too much on the wrong things
1848 2011-04-02 22:14:34 <JFK911> borland still exists, wow
1849 2011-04-02 22:14:48 <Diablo-D3> in the beginning, they wanted something to, basically, make client programs to deal with databases
1850 2011-04-02 22:15:00 <idnar> JFK911: you mean borland^Winprise^Wborland
1851 2011-04-02 22:15:10 <Diablo-D3> while retaining a normal programming language for generic tasks (ie, visual pascal)
1852 2011-04-02 22:15:15 <Diablo-D3> but blergh
1853 2011-04-02 22:15:22 <JFK911> i kinda stopped paying attention to this crap when i started working in SCO UNIX
1854 2011-04-02 22:15:23 <Diablo-D3> java sort of blew that out of the water
1855 2011-04-02 22:15:29 <Diablo-D3> HA HA SCO UNIX
1856 2011-04-02 22:15:30 <JFK911> nobody ever wrote in pascal for unix
1857 2011-04-02 22:15:34 <JFK911> sco unix was/is rocksolid
1858 2011-04-02 22:15:36 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: not true.
1859 2011-04-02 22:15:37 <JFK911> makes lots of cash
1860 2011-04-02 22:15:37 <genjix> why don't they make a C++ pre-parser that has python style syntax?
1861 2011-04-02 22:15:41 <idnar> Diablo-D3: the problem with Delphi was that they couldn't decide whether they wanted it to be FoxPro or VB
1862 2011-04-02 22:15:44 <Diablo-D3> and no, sco unix I would like to say never existed
1863 2011-04-02 22:15:48 <Diablo-D3> idnar: yeah, so it became both.
1864 2011-04-02 22:15:56 <genjix> i.e indenting for increasing scope .etc
1865 2011-04-02 22:16:01 <Diablo-D3> idnar: which is quite horrifying if you think about it
1866 2011-04-02 22:16:11 <idnar> (also I get to make disparaging comments about FoxPro because I maintained a codebase written in Clipper for ~3 years)
1867 2011-04-02 22:16:16 <JFK911> Diablo-D3: sco unix is everywhere bub, it may never die
1868 2011-04-02 22:16:28 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: that isnt it, its just a broken distribution of BSD
1869 2011-04-02 22:16:29 <JFK911> funny that SVR3 crap is still doing so much
1870 2011-04-02 22:16:31 <JFK911> uh
1871 2011-04-02 22:16:32 <JFK911> no
1872 2011-04-02 22:16:35 <JFK911> sco is nothing like bsd!
1873 2011-04-02 22:16:37 <JFK911> bsd garbage
1874 2011-04-02 22:16:39 <JFK911> sco real AY&Y
1875 2011-04-02 22:16:41 <JFK911> AT&T
1876 2011-04-02 22:16:47 <Diablo-D3> aah, but the courts say otherwise.
1877 2011-04-02 22:16:48 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|genjix, because using indenting for codeflow is IDIOTIC
1878 2011-04-02 22:17:07 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr|otg: wait, have we gone back to python hating?
1879 2011-04-02 22:17:11 <Diablo-D3> I can totally get on that bandwaggon
1880 2011-04-02 22:17:15 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|always
1881 2011-04-02 22:17:39 <ArtForz> so... you don't indent code blocks?
1882 2011-04-02 22:17:51 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|ArtForz, not always
1883 2011-04-02 22:18:06 <ArtForz> eww.
1884 2011-04-02 22:18:23 <idnar> Haskell kinda plays both sides of the fence
1885 2011-04-02 22:18:33 <Diablo-D3> I sometimes have codeblocks that dont span multiple lines
1886 2011-04-02 22:18:34 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|I wish someone would fix diff
1887 2011-04-02 22:18:40 <Diablo-D3> python would shit itself if I tried that
1888 2011-04-02 22:18:49 <ArtForz> what?
1889 2011-04-02 22:18:50 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Diablo-D3, not true
1890 2011-04-02 22:18:57 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|Diablo-D3, if a: b
1891 2011-04-02 22:19:04 <idnar> Diablo-D3: python doesn't care, but python programmers will shoot you
1892 2011-04-02 22:19:05 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|no newline required
1893 2011-04-02 22:19:17 <Diablo-D3> class fuckyou { dongs() { return yourmother; }}
1894 2011-04-02 22:19:23 <idnar> anyhow, in Haskell, you can delimit with {}; but if you put the right spacing in, you can leave them out
1895 2011-04-02 22:20:03 <ArtForz> yes, thats very readable and like totally good practice.
1896 2011-04-02 22:20:12 <idnar> ah, you can't nest more than one Python suite inline like that
1897 2011-04-02 22:20:30 <idnar> "class foo: pass" is fine, but "class foo: def dongs(): pass" is a syntax error
1898 2011-04-02 22:20:31 <genjix> yes you can. use ;
1899 2011-04-02 22:20:48 <idnar> there isn't anywhere you can insert a semicolon there to make it work, either
1900 2011-04-02 22:20:54 <genjix> oh noes, i have to waste 2 lines extra
1901 2011-04-02 22:21:03 <Diablo-D3> and Ive written some really insane shit in perl
1902 2011-04-02 22:21:13 <genjix> i like that python forces coders to write readable code
1903 2011-04-02 22:21:22 <idnar> genjix: hey, well, I didn't say *I* thought it was a bad thing, I was just confirming that it wasn't possible
1904 2011-04-02 22:21:23 <Diablo-D3> I never really believed the whole perl line noise joke until I just sort of started doing it
1905 2011-04-02 22:21:28 <Diablo-D3> and you dont really notice you're doing it
1906 2011-04-02 22:21:38 <idnar> Diablo-D3: have you tried Etc?
1907 2011-04-02 22:21:48 <Diablo-D3> you just turn into some sort of human perl compiler of some sorts
1908 2011-04-02 22:21:53 <idnar> Diablo-D3: I find it a lot more concise than Perl
1909 2011-04-02 22:22:00 <Diablo-D3> never heard of it
1910 2011-04-02 22:22:03 * idnar grins
1911 2011-04-02 22:22:09 <idnar> Diablo-D3: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?EtcLanguage
1912 2011-04-02 22:22:28 <Diablo-D3> holy shit, c2 is still around?
1913 2011-04-02 22:22:43 <idnar> yup
1914 2011-04-02 22:22:49 <BlueMatt> sipa: sorry have been really busy lately, in any case finally merged spentpertxout into patched and am building now
1915 2011-04-02 22:23:10 <Diablo-D3> "In the next release of etc, currently under development and expected in early 2003"
1916 2011-04-02 22:23:11 <Diablo-D3> dohohoho
1917 2011-04-02 22:23:32 <sipa> BlueMatt: ok nice :)
1918 2011-04-02 22:23:47 <Diablo-D3> idnar: so I assume this is an old april fools joke?
1919 2011-04-02 22:23:50 <BlueMatt> sipa: how is the wallet import coming?
1920 2011-04-02 22:24:03 <sipa> hmm, i plan to do some serieus changes to that still
1921 2011-04-02 22:24:07 <sipa> serious
1922 2011-04-02 22:24:16 <idnar> Diablo-D3: just a joke, not even an april fools joke
1923 2011-04-02 22:24:25 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, looking forward to it in any case
1924 2011-04-02 22:24:49 <idnar> but I still crack up laughing every time somebody mentions "transclusive domain theory"
1925 2011-04-02 22:25:09 <idnar> (I'm probably more easily amused by stupid things than I should be)
1926 2011-04-02 22:25:19 <sipa> idea: one format that can be used for both backups and money transfer, with different modus of importing (import wallet, restore backup, transfer available to own address)
1927 2011-04-02 22:26:16 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|sipa, done
1928 2011-04-02 22:26:32 <sipa> what done?
1929 2011-04-02 22:26:50 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|sipa, what you described
1930 2011-04-02 22:26:52 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|:P
1931 2011-04-02 22:26:53 <Diablo-D3> idnar: its a funny joke, honestly
1932 2011-04-02 22:27:17 <mizerydearia> Does anyone know the name for the movement of people finding buildings not lived in for a year and then living there? I forgot the name for it.
1933 2011-04-02 22:27:45 <sipa> squatters
1934 2011-04-02 22:27:49 <genjix> mizerydearia: urban explorers
1935 2011-04-02 22:28:02 <genjix> oh oops, squatters
1936 2011-04-02 22:28:06 <genjix> kraak in dutch
1937 2011-04-02 22:28:21 <BlueMatt> homless people looking for free housing?
1938 2011-04-02 22:28:27 <genjix> no, it's a movement
1939 2011-04-02 22:28:32 <sipa> genjix: i wikipedia'd "krakers", and clicked english to find the word :)
1940 2011-04-02 22:28:43 <genjix> they turn them into nice livable houses
1941 2011-04-02 22:29:01 <sipa> luke-jr|otg: sure, many ideas, but none fully implemented
1942 2011-04-02 22:29:10 <genjix> cool sipa. what do you think of the ban?
1943 2011-04-02 22:29:49 <genjix> also if you're dutch, why not come to NiMK on Monday in a*dam? http://nimk.nl/nl/pixxxel-on-bitcoin-digital-cash
1944 2011-04-02 22:30:04 <sipa> i'm dutch-speaking, but not dutch :)
1945 2011-04-02 22:30:09 <genjix> kk
1946 2011-04-02 22:30:13 <sipa> and i have to work :)
1947 2011-04-02 22:41:02 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1948 2011-04-02 22:42:40 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1949 2011-04-02 22:49:35 * nathan7 pats sipa
1950 2011-04-02 22:49:47 <nathan7> genjix: interesting
1951 2011-04-02 22:50:15 * sipa unpats sipa
1952 2011-04-02 22:50:23 <nathan7> genjix: Amsterdam is half an hour from here though :/
1953 2011-04-02 22:51:04 echelon has joined
1954 2011-04-02 22:51:16 <sipa> 2h20m from here, according to gm
1955 2011-04-02 22:53:34 <idnar> 10h9m from here :)
1956 2011-04-02 22:55:22 <sipa> gm being google maps, not gmail or general motors
1957 2011-04-02 22:55:28 <sipa> </obvious/
1958 2011-04-02 22:55:29 <sipa> >
1959 2011-04-02 22:55:52 Bogart has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1960 2011-04-02 22:56:42 <ArtForz> oh, and I thought you asked the game master ;)
1961 2011-04-02 23:01:08 <[Tycho]> :)
1962 2011-04-02 23:02:21 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1963 2011-04-02 23:05:21 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1964 2011-04-02 23:05:27 <idnar> haha
1965 2011-04-02 23:06:27 knotwork has joined
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1968 2011-04-02 23:12:00 <midnightmagic> i would be incredibly irritated if i owned property and after two years across the country, returned to find some dirty hippies hanging out in my old master bedroom and setting my furniture on fire to keep warm.
1969 2011-04-02 23:12:34 <midnightmagic> it reduced my potential motility
1970 2011-04-02 23:12:40 <midnightmagic> reduced => reduces
1971 2011-04-02 23:13:13 x6763 has joined
1972 2011-04-02 23:14:01 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
1973 2011-04-02 23:14:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 116386 | Current Difficulty: 68978.89245792 | Next Difficulty At Block: 116927 | Next Difficulty In: 541 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 2 hours, 23 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 79832.37160542
1974 2011-04-02 23:14:26 <genjix> you do know that a lot of those 'dirty hippies' are kernel contributors and other types of free software devs?
1975 2011-04-02 23:15:22 NickelBot has joined
1976 2011-04-02 23:16:17 <nathan7> Hi midnightmagic
1977 2011-04-02 23:16:34 <midnightmagic> hey n7. :)
1978 2011-04-02 23:17:44 * nathan7 goes to sleep
1979 2011-04-02 23:17:49 <midnightmagic> genjix: i can respect the work, but honestly, anyone who does this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ is a person I would specifically attempt to personally avoid.
1980 2011-04-02 23:18:30 <BlueMatt> god thats creepy
1981 2011-04-02 23:18:46 <genjix> maybe watch a documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvXB8-AGCwE
1982 2011-04-02 23:18:52 <genjix> before leaping to conclusions?
1983 2011-04-02 23:18:58 <midnightmagic> did you see how long he was chewing on it? and it was.. hard.. you can see his entire face deforming with the effort.
1984 2011-04-02 23:19:19 <BlueMatt> yea
1985 2011-04-02 23:19:30 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|?
1986 2011-04-02 23:20:12 <BlueMatt> genjix: I would but "This video contains content from Duche bad media company who doesnt understand how the internet works. It is not available in your country."
1987 2011-04-02 23:20:29 <BlueMatt> douche bag*
1988 2011-04-02 23:20:35 <Blitzboom> lol germany
1989 2011-04-02 23:20:38 <midnightmagic> it's not a question of conclusions. that specific behaviour is one which disqualifies someone from being my in-person friend. i would never invite someone like that into my home. now, of course, if he knocked on my door i'd offer him coffee and hospitality, but.. i would never invite him to my home.
1990 2011-04-02 23:20:56 james has joined
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1992 2011-04-02 23:21:36 <genjix> you sound very intolerant of people different to you.
1993 2011-04-02 23:21:41 Guest70752 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1994 2011-04-02 23:21:47 <genjix> hammer the nails that stick out.
1995 2011-04-02 23:22:24 <midnightmagic> no, i'm intolerant of people who have personal habits which make them a risk to be around.
1996 2011-04-02 23:23:11 <ArtForz> what risk?
1997 2011-04-02 23:23:21 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|genjix, FUD
1998 2011-04-02 23:23:22 sgornick has joined
1999 2011-04-02 23:24:08 <midnightmagic> eating stuff from your feet completes the life cycle of a large number of parasites.
2000 2011-04-02 23:25:39 <lfm> name 5
2001 2011-04-02 23:26:06 <ArtForz> hehehe
2002 2011-04-02 23:40:43 <midnightmagic> sure. hookworm, pinworm, whipworm, toxoplasmids, guinea worm, liver flukes, roundworm, .. additionally, eating bits of yourself that may have come in contact with any prion-infected soil could, remotely, cause cjd.
2003 2011-04-02 23:41:02 <midnightmagic> it's just stupid, period.
2004 2011-04-02 23:41:51 <midnightmagic> not to mention all the diseases that might be living under his toenails. gross.
2005 2011-04-02 23:42:33 <JFK911> foot cheese eating?
2006 2011-04-02 23:42:37 <JFK911> is that stallman?
2007 2011-04-02 23:42:39 <midnightmagic> stallman.
2008 2011-04-02 23:42:42 <JFK911> yeah.
2009 2011-04-02 23:42:48 <JFK911> does he even have a home?
2010 2011-04-02 23:42:54 <JFK911> i think he sleeps in his office.
2011 2011-04-02 23:42:58 <midnightmagic> home is where the foot fungus is.
2012 2011-04-02 23:43:20 <midnightmagic> don't get me wrong. i have a tremendous respect for what he's been able to do.
2013 2011-04-02 23:43:29 <JFK911> he did something?
2014 2011-04-02 23:43:41 <JFK911> i guess emacs is neat
2015 2011-04-02 23:43:46 <midnightmagic> i don't have much respect for how he invaded the OpenBSD-misc ml.
2016 2011-04-02 23:43:48 <JFK911> i use it all the time.
2017 2011-04-02 23:44:02 <JFK911> well, theo is an adept ruiner. he didn't need any help!
2018 2011-04-02 23:44:34 <midnightmagic> it's kind of like how I would be happy to shun someone I knew licked other peoples' asses. that person is just begging to be a disease vector.
2019 2011-04-02 23:45:00 <JFK911> but its polite to do that before you shove a dong in
2020 2011-04-02 23:45:20 <midnightmagic> yuck
2021 2011-04-02 23:45:41 jrabbit has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2022 2011-04-02 23:45:43 <midnightmagic> anyway, apologies for wandering offtopic. i'm sure genjix was just trolling.
2023 2011-04-02 23:46:15 <JFK911> well. i dont think i'd shake rms' hand.
2024 2011-04-02 23:46:27 <JFK911> unless i specifically saw him washing them.
2025 2011-04-02 23:46:55 <sipa> so you wouldn't ask for a signature?
2026 2011-04-02 23:46:55 <midnightmagic> i would do it if i knew i was going to shake his hand well in advance, then i could bring the purell
2027 2011-04-02 23:47:00 <sipa> except a digital one maybe?
2028 2011-04-02 23:47:04 <ArtForz> midnightmagic: your parasite argument is flawed
2029 2011-04-02 23:47:38 <JFK911> ^ german
2030 2011-04-02 23:47:45 <JFK911> has inspection shelf
2031 2011-04-02 23:47:45 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: it's a stretch, maybe, but it is possible.
2032 2011-04-02 23:47:47 <ArtForz> unless you also avoid all people chewing nails
2033 2011-04-02 23:48:07 <ArtForz> because thats a few orders of magnitude more likely to cause parasite infection in this case
2034 2011-04-02 23:48:13 <JFK911> i used one of those german toilets
2035 2011-04-02 23:48:16 <JFK911> i was like wow this stinks
2036 2011-04-02 23:48:21 <JFK911> and reached back to flush
2037 2011-04-02 23:48:35 <JFK911> if youve never seen one, its a shallow shelf with the drain hole in the front
2038 2011-04-02 23:48:38 <JFK911> so what happened was
2039 2011-04-02 23:48:52 <JFK911> the "material" floated into my other hanging "material"
2040 2011-04-02 23:48:52 BlueMatt has left ("Ex-Chat")
2041 2011-04-02 23:48:55 <JFK911> on the way to the drain
2042 2011-04-02 23:49:03 <JFK911> yuk
2043 2011-04-02 23:49:08 <sipa> no further questions, your honor
2044 2011-04-02 23:49:49 <Blitzboom> thank you for sharing
2045 2011-04-02 23:50:33 <midnightmagic> ArtForz: no, feet are the specific vector for infection, esp. for world travellers.. stallman barefoots.
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2049 2011-04-02 23:53:28 <lfm> midnightmagic: perhaps feet ya but you specified eating from the feet, Most of those enter thru the skin on the feet I think
2050 2011-04-02 23:53:35 <ArtForz> yep
2051 2011-04-02 23:53:48 <ArtForz> hookworms certainly do
2052 2011-04-02 23:53:51 <midnightmagic> right, but it's not like they all just sink in the moment they touch the foot.
2053 2011-04-02 23:54:37 <lfm> midnightmagic: well its not as if they were sent directly into a pool of strong acid either -- oh wait they were
2054 2011-04-02 23:55:39 jrabbit has joined
2055 2011-04-02 23:56:56 <midnightmagic> lfm: that doesn't kill them. if it did, pinworm wouldn't exist.