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   9 2011-04-08 00:21:57 <gasteve> anyone know why the OSX build specifically uses llvm-g++ (instead of g++)?
  10 2011-04-08 00:22:36 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  11 2011-04-08 00:26:56 <nathan7> gasteve: LLVM is awesome?
  12 2011-04-08 00:27:06 taco_the_paco has joined
  13 2011-04-08 00:28:05 <gjs278> if you explain why -march=amdfam10 is in the unix makefile, I'll tell you why it uses llvm-g++ in the osx build
  14 2011-04-08 00:28:34 * nathan7 blinks
  15 2011-04-08 00:32:32 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, my guess would be that llvm is better supported on os x because it's from apple
  16 2011-04-08 00:32:41 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, also it's a significantly better compiler...
  17 2011-04-08 00:33:04 <gjs278> phantomcircuit now you have to answer my question
  18 2011-04-08 00:33:51 <phantomcircuit> what question
  19 2011-04-08 00:33:56 <phantomcircuit> oh
  20 2011-04-08 00:34:25 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, it's the exact right mix of instructions used by the 4way sse iirc, it's also a bad idea but whatever
  21 2011-04-08 00:34:34 <gasteve> so, I take it that llvm-g++ generates llvm code and llvm then generates the x86_64 code?
  22 2011-04-08 00:34:43 <gjs278> alright sounds good
  23 2011-04-08 00:34:47 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, yeah
  24 2011-04-08 00:35:09 <gasteve> and the reason it's better is just because the llvm->x86_64 is that good?
  25 2011-04-08 00:35:18 <phantomcircuit> pretty much
  26 2011-04-08 00:35:29 <phantomcircuit> gcc does something similar internally
  27 2011-04-08 00:35:48 <gasteve> of course
  28 2011-04-08 00:35:52 <phantomcircuit> but with llvm-g++ for example you could actually leave it as llvm
  29 2011-04-08 00:36:01 <phantomcircuit> and then do JIT from llvm on the actual machine
  30 2011-04-08 00:36:07 <gasteve> right
  31 2011-04-08 00:36:18 <phantomcircuit> although i dont think that's whats happening here
  32 2011-04-08 00:36:24 <gasteve> (but bitcoin is generating an x86_64 binary)
  33 2011-04-08 00:36:43 <gasteve> (and i386)
  34 2011-04-08 00:36:46 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, to put it in perspective llvm was designed so that apple could present a unified graphics api and fillin in the missing hardware support with software
  35 2011-04-08 00:36:48 <phantomcircuit> so
  36 2011-04-08 00:36:51 <phantomcircuit> it's ridiculously fast
  37 2011-04-08 00:36:59 <phantomcircuit> ill bbl
  38 2011-04-08 00:37:09 <bd_> in practice you can't do LLVM JIT with C, as structure sizes/layouts get baked into the binary
  39 2011-04-08 00:37:18 <gasteve> has anyone actually benchmarked bitcoin with g++ vs llvm-g++?
  40 2011-04-08 00:37:25 <bd_> you could do it if you standardized sizes/byte orders across all targets
  41 2011-04-08 00:37:44 <bd_> I believe google's NaCl is planning on doing something like that with x86/x86-64/ARM
  42 2011-04-08 00:38:13 <nathan7> That's a.. funny name
  43 2011-04-08 00:38:27 Zenith77 has joined
  44 2011-04-08 00:40:09 <gasteve> bd_: so you'll generate to some abstract machine code and NaCL does dynamic translation?
  45 2011-04-08 00:40:33 <gasteve> or is NaCL using llvm specifically?
  46 2011-04-08 00:47:52 kermit has joined
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  48 2011-04-08 00:50:07 <Speeder> what open source exchanges exist?
  49 2011-04-08 00:50:56 <theymos> Britcoin and Bitcoin-Exchange.
  50 2011-04-08 00:51:38 devrandom has joined
  51 2011-04-08 00:52:09 <bd_> gasteve: NaCL isn't using llvm yet, but the idea will be to compile to a portable representation, then convert it at the client to machine code
  52 2011-04-08 00:52:16 <bd_> Not a JIT per se, just a portable representation
  53 2011-04-08 00:52:35 kermit has joined
  54 2011-04-08 00:53:30 <gasteve> well, a JIT translates a portable representation to a language hardware understands (typically)
  55 2011-04-08 00:55:11 <gasteve> but, I'm guessing you mean NaCL might do that translation all at once rather than just before execution?
  56 2011-04-08 00:55:16 <bd_> Exactly
  57 2011-04-08 00:55:41 <bd_> It's not quite deployed yet though; AIUI LLVM hasn't quite settled down on a long-term portable representation
  58 2011-04-08 00:55:48 <bd_> or, well, stable format
  59 2011-04-08 00:57:18 <gasteve> I don't actually like LLVM as a portable representation...it's too "low level"   :P
  60 2011-04-08 00:58:00 <bd_> It's fine for NaCL, as they can define everything to use 32-bit pointers and little-endian
  61 2011-04-08 00:58:15 <gasteve> yeah, not saying it doesn't work
  62 2011-04-08 00:58:19 <bd_> They're only targetting x86, x86-64 (with limited address space), and ARM
  63 2011-04-08 00:58:29 <bd_> and anything higher level and compiling C gets tricky :)
  64 2011-04-08 00:58:56 <gasteve> and, I guess they're trying to make something that plugs into the back end of a lot of tools and works for a lot of legacy languages
  65 2011-04-08 01:00:34 <bd_> yep
  66 2011-04-08 01:00:39 <gasteve> I've been working off and on over the years on my own OS and language...so this topic interests me
  67 2011-04-08 01:00:48 <bd_> if you have a HLL... compile to javascript ;)
  68 2011-04-08 01:00:56 <gasteve> ick
  69 2011-04-08 01:01:06 <bd_> hey, it can be done
  70 2011-04-08 01:01:11 <bd_> look at GWT
  71 2011-04-08 01:01:21 <gasteve> no question it can be done
  72 2011-04-08 01:01:30 [oHwHo] has joined
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  74 2011-04-08 01:02:40 <gasteve> check this out: http://nicolaspetton.github.com/jtalk/
  75 2011-04-08 01:03:25 <gasteve> (it's a pretty complete Smalltalk IDE that runs right in your browser and compiles the Smalltalk down to Javascript)
  76 2011-04-08 01:07:26 <gasteve> OMeta is also worth studying if you're into languages and compilation: http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2007003_ometa.pdf
  77 2011-04-08 01:07:50 <gasteve> (or more specifically, translation)
  78 2011-04-08 01:09:35 <Kiba> hmm
  79 2011-04-08 01:09:39 <Kiba> bd_: yo
  80 2011-04-08 01:09:48 <Kiba> bd_: did ya check out my crowdfunded thread?
  81 2011-04-08 01:09:58 <gjs278> slush: is payout history total available in the json api
  82 2011-04-08 01:13:00 <bd_> Kiba: nope
  83 2011-04-08 01:13:05 <bd_> what crowdfunded thread?
  84 2011-04-08 01:13:53 stamit has quit (Quit: stamit)
  85 2011-04-08 01:16:28 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5465.0
  86 2011-04-08 01:16:30 <Kiba> this thread
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  89 2011-04-08 01:17:39 <Kiba> hmm
  90 2011-04-08 01:17:59 <Kiba> there's a wave of post about google engineer releasing an open source impelemntation of bitcoin
  91 2011-04-08 01:18:04 <gjs278> we pay you to make the game?
  92 2011-04-08 01:18:21 JStoker has joined
  93 2011-04-08 01:18:32 <Kiba> gjs278: yes. There's also reward levels too
  94 2011-04-08 01:19:34 <gjs278> how long do you think it will take you... $1200 at the most couldn't last you too long if you really did do it full time
  95 2011-04-08 01:20:15 <Kiba> gjs278: well, I am "unproven"
  96 2011-04-08 01:20:20 <Kiba> ya know what I mean?
  97 2011-04-08 01:20:29 <Kiba> can be chooser
  98 2011-04-08 01:20:34 <Kiba> can't be chooser*
  99 2011-04-08 01:20:45 <gjs278> yeah
 100 2011-04-08 01:21:03 <Kiba> I envision working epically hard at this
 101 2011-04-08 01:21:39 <Kiba> plus, I'll make money from people playing my game anyway
 102 2011-04-08 01:23:07 * Kiba got rid of the graphic budget and anything that might make work too hard too
 103 2011-04-08 01:24:03 <gjs278> you could be the next dwarf fortress
 104 2011-04-08 01:25:15 <Kiba> maybe, but I can't wait forever for this project to get funded
 105 2011-04-08 01:26:42 <theymos> Your to-do adventure thing failed because it was too simple. You should create some reasonably-good graphics and content before releasing it.
 106 2011-04-08 01:27:26 bitcoiner has joined
 107 2011-04-08 01:28:24 <gjs278> http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8813/screenshotllz.png ignore the ridiculously oversized buttons, but do you guys think anyone would want to use this for wallet.dat encrypting that can't figure out how to gpg with passwords on cmd
 108 2011-04-08 01:28:46 <gjs278> it does crosscompile all over the place, it's gtk+c
 109 2011-04-08 01:29:52 <gjs278> it uses cast5 by default, but I would allow for a cipher selector on the main encryption page
 110 2011-04-08 01:30:22 <gjs278> the purpose just for backing up a wallet.dat password protected to be on a dropbox or whatever
 111 2011-04-08 01:31:44 <Kiba> theymos: graphics and contnets?
 112 2011-04-08 01:33:00 * Kiba intentionally design the game as to not required godly amount of content
 113 2011-04-08 01:33:27 kumi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 114 2011-04-08 01:33:47 <Kiba> anyway, I believe that in order to market this, I must have a working game I can show to people
 115 2011-04-08 01:34:15 tabsa has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 116 2011-04-08 01:35:58 <theymos> Releasing with just the bare minimum doesn't make a good game. Your to-do list thing was totally useless. I seem to remember other projects of yours also being non-useful because they are too simple, though I can't think of any examples.
 117 2011-04-08 01:37:03 <Kiba> theymos: to-do list thing?
 118 2011-04-08 01:37:14 <theymos> That RPG to-do list game that you made.
 119 2011-04-08 01:37:18 <Kiba> oh
 120 2011-04-08 01:37:21 <Kiba> that was a failure
 121 2011-04-08 01:37:48 <Kiba> no, it was more like I stopped working on it
 122 2011-04-08 01:38:27 <Kiba> it was because I can't understand how to secure mybitcoin thingy and didn't work hard at figuring it out
 123 2011-04-08 01:42:03 <gasteve> what kind of business ideas do people have that don't involve writing any more code (i.e. that could be implemented with bitcoin as it exists right this minute)?
 124 2011-04-08 01:42:15 <Kiba> theymos: I have no idea what that's to do with my next game project
 125 2011-04-08 01:42:27 <Kiba> and I am on the verge of completing my jstet multiplayer clone
 126 2011-04-08 01:42:53 <Kiba> gasteve: writing code is useful stuff
 127 2011-04-08 01:43:00 <gasteve> sure
 128 2011-04-08 01:43:16 <Kiba> you have to think of situations where humans are just that good at things
 129 2011-04-08 01:43:19 <gasteve> I'm just trying to figure out how people that are non coders might be able to use bitcoins right now
 130 2011-04-08 01:43:39 <Kiba> handmade goods
 131 2011-04-08 01:43:44 <MagicalTux> Kiba, (your transfer has completed btw)
 132 2011-04-08 01:43:49 <Kiba> yes!
 133 2011-04-08 01:43:58 <Kiba> now I have a place to put up my game
 134 2011-04-08 01:44:00 <theymos> gasteve: You could set up the guaranteed mix service I described at the bottom of https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity .
 135 2011-04-08 01:44:32 <theymos> Actually, that would probably require some simple web development stuff.
 136 2011-04-08 01:44:37 <gasteve> yeah, but handmade goods could just as easily be sold for dollars or any other currency
 137 2011-04-08 01:45:07 <MagicalTux> for those who care about mixing, they may appreciate the fact that funds on mtgox are constantly mixed :p
 138 2011-04-08 01:45:11 <Kiba> gasteve: writing for my magazine
 139 2011-04-08 01:45:40 <Kiba> hmm
 140 2011-04-08 01:45:44 <theymos> MagicalTux: That's probably the best solution so far, but a mixer where you are guaranteed to not get back the same coins you sent in would be better.
 141 2011-04-08 01:45:50 <Kiba> programming is pretty damn indispensible
 142 2011-04-08 01:45:56 <gjs278> http://garyshood.com/bitcoin/slush.phps for anyone who wants to have a conky display for slush's stats on their desktop, here's a script that will grab your Total Reward and your Payout history and save it to a text fiel
 143 2011-04-08 01:46:10 <gjs278> and then you can tail it on your conky for however long you want
 144 2011-04-08 01:46:17 <MagicalTux> theymos, for me, the mixing reduces the chances of having transaction fees when sending transactions
 145 2011-04-08 01:46:24 <gjs278> both of those things arent provided by the json api so don't blame the preg_matches
 146 2011-04-08 01:46:58 <gjs278> well actually
 147 2011-04-08 01:47:02 <theymos> MagicalTux: Do you create randomly-sized coins, or do you use some formula?
 148 2011-04-08 01:47:08 <gjs278> no I stand by that, they arent provided
 149 2011-04-08 01:47:11 <gasteve> I have friends that have money and are willing to take a chance on something new...they get bitcoins...but they aren't programmings and won't be interested in big development projects...so, I'm trying to think of ideas where they could create businesses around bitcoins that could take advantage of the unique properties of bitcoin as it exists right now
 150 2011-04-08 01:47:27 <gasteve> s/programmings/programmers/
 151 2011-04-08 01:47:38 <theymos> The best property of Bitcoin is cheap international money transfer.
 152 2011-04-08 01:47:47 <gasteve> theymos: i agree
 153 2011-04-08 01:48:07 <MagicalTux> [10:44:36] <theymos> MagicalTux: Do you create randomly-sized coins, or do you use some formula? <- I use randomly-sized coins in a range that allows me to issue withdraws to people without too many inputs :)
 154 2011-04-08 01:48:21 <gasteve> that's the best idea I've come up with so far...(people working abroad trying to send money back to family members)
 155 2011-04-08 01:48:38 <gjs278> I would never do that with bitcoins seeing as how unstable they are pricewise
 156 2011-04-08 01:48:54 <Kiba> it will be unstable for a long time
 157 2011-04-08 01:49:11 <gjs278> I'd paypal it and take the fee at least knowing it won't be worth a dime a dollar less in 3 days
 158 2011-04-08 01:49:13 <gasteve> it's not that unstable
 159 2011-04-08 01:49:17 <gjs278> well
 160 2011-04-08 01:49:23 <gjs278> considering it was $1 like 2 months ago
 161 2011-04-08 01:49:26 <gjs278> and 75 cents now
 162 2011-04-08 01:49:29 <gjs278> that's pretty unstable
 163 2011-04-08 01:49:51 <gjs278> especially if they have to cash out when some guy is flooding them all back to mtogx
 164 2011-04-08 01:49:54 <gasteve> so, you take someone's cash in one country...send bitcoins to someone in another country...give them cash in that country
 165 2011-04-08 01:50:28 <gasteve> that transaction can take place in a matter of minutes
 166 2011-04-08 01:50:41 <Kiba> couple with the emergance of cheap smartphone, even the poor in third world countries can benefit from access to the bitcoin market
 167 2011-04-08 01:50:46 <Kiba> err
 168 2011-04-08 01:50:48 <Kiba> economy
 169 2011-04-08 01:50:50 <gasteve> and bitcoins are stable enough to support that
 170 2011-04-08 01:50:57 <theymos> MagicalTux: Bitcoin should really do something like that itself. Another problem is that if your wallet is composed of just one large coin, then you'll be stuck with low-priority transactions forever.
 171 2011-04-08 01:51:18 <gjs278> can you even convert bitcoins to money without going through mtogx and having to then go through liberty reserve
 172 2011-04-08 01:51:42 <MagicalTux> theymos, my client was supposed to include this, didn't have time to finish that (basically the idea here is to split large transactions in advance, and join smaller transactions)
 173 2011-04-08 01:51:46 <gjs278> I've been looking for a good "cash out" plae and havent really seen it
 174 2011-04-08 01:52:25 <davex__> gjs278, Don't need LR, he'll do direct deposit.
 175 2011-04-08 01:52:40 <theymos> MagicalTux: Here's a possible attack on MtGox I thought of: attacker creates many accounts, deposits BTC, withdraws the max. Eventually all MtGox coins are less than 6 confirmations, due to Bitcoin's prioritization. This allows the attacker to see how much BTC is in MtGox, and it also reduces all of MtGox's priority. Do you defend against this attack?
 176 2011-04-08 01:52:44 <gjs278> that's fine, what's the fee for that when you convert it to money though
 177 2011-04-08 01:52:46 <gasteve> gjs278: what is the issue with getting monty out of mtgox?
 178 2011-04-08 01:53:00 <gasteve> (money)
 179 2011-04-08 01:53:09 DrQ has joined
 180 2011-04-08 01:53:13 <gasteve> I've only traded with individuals on OTC
 181 2011-04-08 01:53:15 <gjs278> I was under the impression they convert it over to liberty reserve first
 182 2011-04-08 01:53:19 <MagicalTux> theymos, deposit on mtgox are only visible after 6 confirmations
 183 2011-04-08 01:53:35 <davex__> gjs278, That's one way to do it.  If you have over $800 worth or something he'll do direct deposit
 184 2011-04-08 01:53:42 <gjs278> gotcha
 185 2011-04-08 01:54:06 <Kiba> anyway
 186 2011-04-08 01:54:07 <gasteve> (and my experience has been that there is a pretty good market there...if I really want to buy or sell BTC, I only need to go a penny or two above or below the mtgox price and I can make a trade within a matter of minutes)
 187 2011-04-08 01:54:08 <gjs278> I really hate the idea of having to use liberty reserve though, I really wish paypal didnt have so many restrictions on what you can use their service for
 188 2011-04-08 01:54:11 <theymos> MagicalTux: I guess you do, then. :) MyBitcoin would probably be really vulnerable to that, since it accepts deposits after 1 confirmation.
 189 2011-04-08 01:54:11 <Kiba> need to make progress on my game
 190 2011-04-08 01:54:58 <gjs278> I just want it to be as simple as sending money to an address, paypal money gets sent to where I tell it to go and that's it
 191 2011-04-08 01:55:15 <gjs278> sending coins to an address* that is
 192 2011-04-08 01:55:22 puddinpop has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 193 2011-04-08 01:55:24 <davex__> gjs278, think that's what #bitcoin-otc is
 194 2011-04-08 01:55:29 <gjs278> gotcha
 195 2011-04-08 01:56:05 <gjs278> I kind of like the idea of a reputable service so some guy on irc doesn't chargeback me though... but I'm sure there's a rep system in that channel
 196 2011-04-08 01:57:09 <davex__> gjs278, don't know, i haven't actually used it.
 197 2011-04-08 01:57:10 <gasteve> I think long term, the solution to this issue is cash...once you reach a critical mass, there will be people you can exchange with locally for cash...that will make the whole paypal/fees issue virtually disappear (people willing to make cash exchanges will then make available online services to those that are relatively new and still want to use paypal...and they'll make a nice profit doing it)
 198 2011-04-08 01:57:25 <gjs278> paypal fees arent that bad
 199 2011-04-08 01:57:59 <luke-jr> gjs278: the rep system is a pain
 200 2011-04-08 01:58:02 <MagicalTux> gjs278, only 3.9%+2.5%+$0.3
 201 2011-04-08 01:58:02 <gasteve> it's not the fees that are a problem...it's the costs/risks associated with chargebacks
 202 2011-04-08 01:58:17 <gjs278> MagicalTux for paypal?
 203 2011-04-08 01:58:21 <luke-jr> gasteve: PayPal doesn't charge fees for same-country xfers
 204 2011-04-08 01:58:30 <MagicalTux> gjs278, yes
 205 2011-04-08 01:58:32 <gjs278> ok
 206 2011-04-08 01:58:33 <gjs278> well
 207 2011-04-08 01:58:36 <gjs278> I don't send money to europeans
 208 2011-04-08 01:58:41 <gjs278> and I've never paid a paypal fee for personal
 209 2011-04-08 01:58:42 <gasteve> luke-jr: I know...but its the chargebacks
 210 2011-04-08 01:58:43 <gjs278> so idc
 211 2011-04-08 01:59:02 <MagicalTux> gjs278, (I'm in Japan)
 212 2011-04-08 01:59:05 <gjs278> I've only seen one person send a fee to me ever and that's because they used their credit card
 213 2011-04-08 01:59:09 <gjs278> hmm
 214 2011-04-08 01:59:15 <gjs278> that would not be good then I imagine for paypal
 215 2011-04-08 01:59:27 <gjs278> but then again you have sexbots
 216 2011-04-08 01:59:32 <MagicalTux> =)
 217 2011-04-08 02:00:40 <gjs278> I have no money irl, it's all in the bank. I wish I could use these coins now, otherwise I have to bite the bullet and go activate my debit card thats been sitting there for months
 218 2011-04-08 02:00:46 <Kiba> any possiblity of Japanese adopting bitcoin, MagicalTux?
 219 2011-04-08 02:01:03 * Kiba have a reloadable debit card from morpheus too
 220 2011-04-08 02:01:05 <gjs278> who would adopt bitcoins when you have yen
 221 2011-04-08 02:01:20 <gjs278> do you know how much yen is in a dollar
 222 2011-04-08 02:01:24 <gasteve> I've been fortunate that a lot of people on OTC have been willing to accept my paypal from me in exchange for BTC ...but, the seller of BTC is taking a big risk in accepting paypal ...with paypal someone could take btc and then later reverse the paypal charges
 223 2011-04-08 02:01:24 <MagicalTux> Kiba, I'll have mtgox available in japanese with JPY transfers soon (I hope)
 224 2011-04-08 02:01:31 <gjs278> you could be a millionaire in yen for basically nothing it would be awesome
 225 2011-04-08 02:01:41 <Kiba> we don't have a Japanese bitcoin page, MagicalTux
 226 2011-04-08 02:02:24 <Kiba> Bitcoin is basically a westerner currency
 227 2011-04-08 02:02:35 eao has joined
 228 2011-04-08 02:02:42 <gasteve> Kiba: what makes you say that?
 229 2011-04-08 02:02:53 <MagicalTux> I'm pretty sure it could work quite well here in Japan
 230 2011-04-08 02:02:58 <gjs278> it's only usable by people with computers
 231 2011-04-08 02:03:11 <Kiba> gjs278: and mostly people who understand English
 232 2011-04-08 02:03:12 <gjs278> nobody in japan has computers they only have gigabit phones and sexbots
 233 2011-04-08 02:03:40 <bd_> I've been to Japan, they're not leading the pack in cellphone R&D anymore :|
 234 2011-04-08 02:03:43 <luke-jr> gjs278: that was before the quakes :P
 235 2011-04-08 02:03:52 <Kiba> bd_: so..what do you think of my project?
 236 2011-04-08 02:04:03 <bd_> Once felica comes to android, they'll have basically no edge on american phone OSes.
 237 2011-04-08 02:04:10 <Kiba> it seems that the telephone network in Japan have a tendency to get overwhelmed in an emergency
 238 2011-04-08 02:04:22 <gasteve> part of the value proposition of bitcoin is that it has a worldwide market...without that, bitcoin is a lot less valuable IMO...gold is similarly valuable in that there is a worldwide market (spanning many governmental jurisdictions) for it
 239 2011-04-08 02:04:24 <bd_> Kiba: cell networks ANYWHERE do that
 240 2011-04-08 02:04:25 <luke-jr> bd_: phones suck anyway
 241 2011-04-08 02:04:39 <Kiba> BUT they're gigabit!
 242 2011-04-08 02:04:44 <bd_> Kiba: and, cell internet worked great during the earthquake in Japan :)
 243 2011-04-08 02:04:49 <gjs278> imagine how fast they could grab the block chain
 244 2011-04-08 02:04:51 <bd_> provided your local base station wasn't destroyed
 245 2011-04-08 02:05:03 <bd_> gjs278: block chain acquisition is CPU-boud
 246 2011-04-08 02:05:05 <bd_> bound
 247 2011-04-08 02:05:09 <gjs278> not in japan
 248 2011-04-08 02:05:22 <luke-jr> …
 249 2011-04-08 02:05:29 <gjs278> in japan the entire block chain is represented in 3 japanese characters
 250 2011-04-08 02:05:31 <bd_> I was in Japan when the earthquake happened. Don't tell me what is or is not in Japan :|
 251 2011-04-08 02:05:32 <luke-jr> with gigabit, it's ESPECIALLY CPU-bound
 252 2011-04-08 02:05:52 <luke-jr> bd_: which one?
 253 2011-04-08 02:06:14 <bd_> luke-jr: The one on the 11th. I was in Ibaraki-ken, Tsukuba-shi - magnitude 6 locally
 254 2011-04-08 02:06:19 <gasteve> the "spannig many governmental jurisdictions" point is key  ...for instance, when the US made gold ownership illegal, it didn't collapse the value of gold (because it wasn't illegal in many other countries) ...so many people just held onto their gold regardless of the US law
 255 2011-04-08 02:06:47 <bd_> Lost water, highways were destroyed, trains shut down for a few days. Fortunately the buildings weren't overly damaged, and power mostly stayed up in my area
 256 2011-04-08 02:07:15 <bd_> luke-jr: and, wimax in Japan works great, but it's 40-50mbit at most. Definitely not gigabit.
 257 2011-04-08 02:07:25 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 258 2011-04-08 02:07:27 <luke-jr> bd_: WiMax lost to LTE i thought
 259 2011-04-08 02:07:37 <bd_> I dunno, I had a wimax terminal, not a LTE
 260 2011-04-08 02:07:57 <gjs278> sha256 doesn't work in japan, you have to use sha?
 261 2011-04-08 02:08:02 <bd_> even LTR has a theoretical max of 324mbit
 262 2011-04-08 02:08:33 <gjs278> ????
 263 2011-04-08 02:08:37 <bd_> LTE rather
 264 2011-04-08 02:09:06 <MagicalTux> :p
 265 2011-04-08 02:09:18 <MagicalTux> Japan is a country of contradictions
 266 2011-04-08 02:09:51 <gjs278> (~_~;)
 267 2011-04-08 02:09:56 <MagicalTux> banks got atm that close at night
 268 2011-04-08 02:10:12 <bd_> anyway, point is, Japan has great cell bandwidth in the cities, at least. But the cell phones themselves are falling behind in innovation. The felica chip in some of the newer ones is nice - it can do contactless payments for the trains etc - but google's put NFE transceivers into recent android phones after all...
 269 2011-04-08 02:10:41 <bd_> MagicalTux: The ones in 7-11 work all night.... if you use a foreign card :)
 270 2011-04-08 02:10:42 <MagicalTux> mh
 271 2011-04-08 02:10:54 <MagicalTux> we got felica chips in japanese phones for more than 5 years
 272 2011-04-08 02:10:55 <gjs278> (^o_o^) - this is a pig
 273 2011-04-08 02:11:39 <bd_> only reason they're not in phones elsewhere is because the POSes haven't really adopted contactless payments much yet
 274 2011-04-08 02:11:45 <MagicalTux> bd_, my personnal bank account allows me to withdraw 24/24 from 7-11 atms (costs money at night), my company account costs money at atm all the time, and doesn't work night/weekends
 275 2011-04-08 02:11:46 <bd_> no mass transit to drive adoption in america either
 276 2011-04-08 02:11:58 <gjs278> 24/24 is amazing
 277 2011-04-08 02:12:24 <bd_> MagicalTux: yeah, when I was there I had yuucho and joyo accounts, can't speak for other banks
 278 2011-04-08 02:12:31 <MagicalTux> in france you can use any card to withdraw from any bank's atm at any time of day or night, and you withdraw for free
 279 2011-04-08 02:12:54 <gjs278> (?_? ) ( ?_?)??????
 280 2011-04-08 02:13:04 <bd_> yeah, back in the US ATMs are 24/7 - fees depend on the issuing institution and ATM owner, not time of day, usually
 281 2011-04-08 02:13:31 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: Speaking of France...  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12983734    Are hashed passwords really outlawed in France, as slashdot and Google are claiming?
 282 2011-04-08 02:13:38 <MagicalTux> but what I like more on japanese ATM is the big "VISA" logo, and written in very small right below it "Japanese only"
 283 2011-04-08 02:14:03 * jgarzik has a server or two in France w/ hashes passwords :)
 284 2011-04-08 02:14:07 <jgarzik> hashed
 285 2011-04-08 02:14:14 <gjs278> go2jail
 286 2011-04-08 02:14:14 <grbgout> you rebel
 287 2011-04-08 02:14:17 * MagicalTux always hashed passwords too, even while in France
 288 2011-04-08 02:14:30 <bd_> MagicalTux: 7-11 ftw :)
 289 2011-04-08 02:14:35 <gjs278> pretty sure you just have to let them login to the account
 290 2011-04-08 02:14:39 <gjs278> which you can do without the hash
 291 2011-04-08 02:15:19 <jgarzik> "The law obliges a range of e-commerce sites, video and music services and webmail providers to keep a host of data on customers. This includes users' full names, postal addresses, telephone numbers and passwords. The data must be handed over to the authorities if demanded."
 292 2011-04-08 02:15:42 <gjs278> yeah but you're not really going to get in trouble if you send over a password hash if you still give them a way to login to the account
 293 2011-04-08 02:15:46 <jgarzik> it's data retention not "let the authorities log in"
 294 2011-04-08 02:15:51 <gasteve> there is a simple way around that law...hash the users' password on the client (web browser) it's better practice anyway
 295 2011-04-08 02:16:00 <gjs278> lol no
 296 2011-04-08 02:16:06 <bd_> jgarzik: So, a summary of a translation. I also saw retranslations on reddit which indicated you only have to preserve "information to verify passwords" or something like that, which would seem to allow hashing
 297 2011-04-08 02:16:12 <gjs278> if your db gets hacked then you're screwed
 298 2011-04-08 02:16:15 <MagicalTux> ASIC also thinks that passwords should not be collected and warned that retaining them could have security implications. <- in French law you can say "I am not retaining the password, it is technically impossible for me to hand out the password"
 299 2011-04-08 02:16:55 <Kiba> terrestial nations trying to impose laws on cyberspace
 300 2011-04-08 02:17:03 <gjs278> I'm sure they can undo the hash anyways
 301 2011-04-08 02:17:07 <jgarzik> yeah it's quite true to say "I don't have the password" when you have the hash
 302 2011-04-08 02:17:09 <gjs278> they have supercomputers doing nothing
 303 2011-04-08 02:17:48 <gasteve> really, you should hash the password on the client, then hash it again before storing it in your DB
 304 2011-04-08 02:18:06 <gjs278> well
 305 2011-04-08 02:18:15 <gjs278> you should use https for anytime the password is being sent
 306 2011-04-08 02:18:25 <gasteve> of course
 307 2011-04-08 02:18:29 <gjs278> and then you just take their raw password, give them a specific salt, and then just hash the raw
 308 2011-04-08 02:18:37 <gjs278> no point in letting the client try and hash it
 309 2011-04-08 02:18:46 <gasteve> yes, there is a point
 310 2011-04-08 02:18:55 <gjs278> what is it
 311 2011-04-08 02:19:00 <gasteve> the point is, their password is never transmitted to your server
 312 2011-04-08 02:19:15 <gjs278> if it's over https then it doesn't matter, no one can read it
 313 2011-04-08 02:19:29 <gasteve> I'm talking about this French law
 314 2011-04-08 02:19:32 <gjs278> oh ok
 315 2011-04-08 02:19:40 <gjs278> you're saying it's a workaround
 316 2011-04-08 02:20:25 <gjs278> I hate making accounts on ecommerce sites anyways
 317 2011-04-08 02:20:30 <gjs278> let me checkout with paypal and thats the end of it
 318 2011-04-08 02:20:31 <bd_> And I'm saying all this hubaloo is based on a single summary of a translated version of the law, and nobody seems to be actually verifying it, because if you _do_ actually check the original law, it's perfectly fine to hash passwords as long as you're prepared to hand _the hash_ over when requested.
 319 2011-04-08 02:20:39 <MagicalTux> [11:16:34] <gasteve> the point is, their password is never transmitted to your server <- who cares?
 320 2011-04-08 02:20:39 <gjs278> yeah
 321 2011-04-08 02:20:58 <gjs278> no MagicalTux he's saying it's a workaround for the law if they really did outlaw hashing (which they didnt)
 322 2011-04-08 02:21:06 <MagicalTux> gasteve, if it's the case, you can just hack the page to send the hash you stole from (somewhere), the hash itself has the same value as the password in that case
 323 2011-04-08 02:21:08 <gjs278> but it is a pretty clever idea
 324 2011-04-08 02:21:10 <gasteve> if you never receive the user's real password, then the only thing you can possibly store (and consequently reveal to authorities) is a hash of their real password...so, you'd not be revealing anything to authorities that would be useful in accessing any other websites the user might utilize
 325 2011-04-08 02:21:12 <MagicalTux> yep
 326 2011-04-08 02:21:19 <gjs278> nah dude, he's not talking about a security aspect
 327 2011-04-08 02:21:25 <gjs278> just a haha govt take that aspect
 328 2011-04-08 02:21:36 <MagicalTux> the law aspect is not as strong as that
 329 2011-04-08 02:21:44 <MagicalTux> you just say "technically impossible" and anything is possible
 330 2011-04-08 02:21:55 <gjs278> not the best excuse to try and give really
 331 2011-04-08 02:22:09 <MagicalTux> gjs278, it already worked quite a few times in my case
 332 2011-04-08 02:22:11 <gjs278> they'll just fine you for not keeping up with the LAW
 333 2011-04-08 02:22:19 <gjs278> how could it have worked if the law was just done today
 334 2011-04-08 02:22:20 <MagicalTux> gjs278, they don't
 335 2011-04-08 02:22:30 <gjs278> lies give me access to your time machine
 336 2011-04-08 02:23:05 <MagicalTux> that law isn't especially law
 337 2011-04-08 02:23:07 <MagicalTux> the one year part is
 338 2011-04-08 02:23:11 <gasteve> btw, the only passwords I ever use on any website are hashes of my real password that is only ever stored in my head...but, I'm not a typical user
 339 2011-04-08 02:23:21 <gjs278> lol
 340 2011-04-08 02:23:25 <gjs278> that must be fun at a friends house
 341 2011-04-08 02:23:34 <gasteve> no problem
 342 2011-04-08 02:23:35 <gjs278> hold on bro, I can check my email, give me a sec to find an md5 hasing service
 343 2011-04-08 02:23:38 <grbgout> no friends ;)
 344 2011-04-08 02:23:42 <gjs278> perfect
 345 2011-04-08 02:23:43 <gasteve> hhah
 346 2011-04-08 02:23:50 <grbgout> <3
 347 2011-04-08 02:23:58 <MagicalTux> anyway
 348 2011-04-08 02:24:02 <MagicalTux> this doesn't hold water
 349 2011-04-08 02:24:22 <Kiba> soo...today, I am ending with 150 BTC pledged for my game project
 350 2011-04-08 02:24:27 <MagicalTux> "my system has no password, we use certificate login"
 351 2011-04-08 02:24:28 <gjs278> good enough
 352 2011-04-08 02:24:35 <gjs278> lies
 353 2011-04-08 02:24:41 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 354 2011-04-08 02:26:02 <gasteve> so, here's what I do...I keep a website where I have profiles for ever website I use (things like the domain name, user id, another key that I use in cases where I need to change a password, etc)...I encrypt those profiles with AES 256 and can access this hashing page anywhere (even a friends house)...I enter the AES key and decrypt the profiles...then I type in a master password that is hashes together with those other inputs and gives me the
 355 2011-04-08 02:26:02 <gasteve> password for the desired website
 356 2011-04-08 02:26:42 <gjs278> thats dumb
 357 2011-04-08 02:26:49 <gjs278> I remember my password
 358 2011-04-08 02:26:53 <gjs278> and type it when needed
 359 2011-04-08 02:27:05 <gasteve> so, yes, it works even at a friends house...I'm just careful not to let their browser remember the password
 360 2011-04-08 02:27:40 <gjs278> the site hosting your passwords has a bit of downtime
 361 2011-04-08 02:27:45 <gasteve> gjs278: so, I probably have around 200 different websites I access...are you telling me you'd just remember 200 unique 24 byte passwords?
 362 2011-04-08 02:27:54 <gjs278> the french govt has a gun to your head demanding the password to your amazon account
 363 2011-04-08 02:28:02 <gjs278> you say you dont remember
 364 2011-04-08 02:28:04 <gjs278> now you're dead
 365 2011-04-08 02:28:12 <gjs278> who makes 24 byte passwords
 366 2011-04-08 02:28:13 <gasteve> gjs278: I actually host it on two different sites (and, no, I'm not making this up)
 367 2011-04-08 02:28:58 <gasteve> haha, yes, I guess I am dead under that circumstance...but they won't get my password to amazon!
 368 2011-04-08 02:29:16 <gjs278> yeah most accounts I don't care about either
 369 2011-04-08 02:29:18 <gjs278> I'd care about
 370 2011-04-08 02:29:19 <gjs278> my paypal
 371 2011-04-08 02:29:21 <gjs278> bank account
 372 2011-04-08 02:29:23 <gjs278> umm
 373 2011-04-08 02:29:24 <gjs278> email
 374 2011-04-08 02:29:26 <gjs278> that's a big one
 375 2011-04-08 02:29:39 <gjs278> anything else oh no not my digg account
 376 2011-04-08 02:29:52 <gasteve> yes, those are the ones I really care about, but this is easy enough to use that I use it for everything
 377 2011-04-08 02:29:52 <gjs278> shit like that I might as well just make the password password
 378 2011-04-08 02:29:56 * Kiba ponders
 379 2011-04-08 02:30:08 * Kiba thinks...
 380 2011-04-08 02:30:13 <Kiba> ah
 381 2011-04-08 02:30:25 <gjs278> kiba you better have something good to add after all that
 382 2011-04-08 02:30:37 <gasteve> (what really ticks me off though is that some websites have stupid restrictions...like limiting passwords to 8 characters...and these are banks!!!)
 383 2011-04-08 02:31:01 <gjs278> you know if any site uses crypt for their passwords they only take the first 8 characters anyways
 384 2011-04-08 02:31:07 <gjs278> so your extra 16 chars go to waste
 385 2011-04-08 02:31:41 manu1 has joined
 386 2011-04-08 02:32:48 <Kiba> gjs278: something good to add?
 387 2011-04-08 02:33:05 <gjs278> you can't /me twice and then say ah and have nothing else to say
 388 2011-04-08 02:33:23 <Kiba> I am working on getting jstet online in its incomplete form
 389 2011-04-08 02:35:04 WakiMiko has joined
 390 2011-04-08 02:35:07 <gasteve> gjs278: why do you say that sites using crypt for passwords would only use the first 8 characters?
 391 2011-04-08 02:35:48 <gjs278> let me find the article
 392 2011-04-08 02:36:14 <gjs278> http://www.certpal.com/blogs/2010/05/crypt-des-and-8-character-truncated-passwords/
 393 2011-04-08 02:36:17 <gasteve> (and, I think most sites would probably hash your password and utilitize the entire thing)
 394 2011-04-08 02:36:17 <gjs278> crypt + des
 395 2011-04-08 02:36:25 <gjs278> The problem with crypt() + Traditional DES is that it truncates the password length to 8 characters.
 396 2011-04-08 02:36:45 <gasteve> bah...any decent site would be using a sha256 hash of your password for auth
 397 2011-04-08 02:36:54 <gjs278> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2007/05/aols_password_puzzler.html
 398 2011-04-08 02:36:58 <gjs278> like aol right
 399 2011-04-08 02:37:05 <gjs278> oh wait, they were using the 8 truncated method lol
 400 2011-04-08 02:37:28 <gasteve> well..part of the reason I go through these hoops is that I don't trust the practices of most websites
 401 2011-04-08 02:37:38 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 402 2011-04-08 02:37:42 <gasteve> actually, that's the whole reason ;)
 403 2011-04-08 02:38:00 <gjs278> any decent site would actually just do bcrypt because it's slow to crack
 404 2011-04-08 02:38:19 <gasteve> so, if one site does something stupid like store passwords in the clear...well, if a hacker hacks their site, they get access to my account on that site, but nowhere else
 405 2011-04-08 02:38:39 <gjs278> yeah
 406 2011-04-08 02:39:44 <gasteve> btw, I customized the code for passwordmaker.org (and found a JS AES library for storing profiles online) to put this together
 407 2011-04-08 02:40:26 ApertureScience has joined
 408 2011-04-08 02:41:09 <gasteve> it's not as onerous as it might seem...browsers on my secure computers will cache passwords for me...and on untrusted computers, I can go to the online website to access the password generator
 409 2011-04-08 02:42:09 <JFK911> how do you know the website isnt logging your input
 410 2011-04-08 02:43:25 <gjs278> well of course they're logging the input
 411 2011-04-08 02:43:26 ApertureScience has quit (Client Quit)
 412 2011-04-08 02:43:40 ApertureScience has joined
 413 2011-04-08 02:44:52 <gasteve> JFK911: how would the website log my input? a virus on the computer might...but the website is my website...and the password generator works entirely in the browser (nothing transmitted to the server)
 414 2011-04-08 02:45:54 <gjs278> are you on shared hosting
 415 2011-04-08 02:46:10 <gasteve> but, it's conceivable that a key logger could get my password...and figure out the URL to my password generator...and they could then use that to find my passwords
 416 2011-04-08 02:46:36 <gjs278> consider this: I get access to your shell account, I lookup the db of all your passes
 417 2011-04-08 02:46:41 <gasteve> gjs278: no, not shared hosting
 418 2011-04-08 02:46:43 wd1t has joined
 419 2011-04-08 02:46:44 <gjs278> unless you store them in a file in which case I just check there
 420 2011-04-08 02:47:04 <gjs278> surely you don't have a 24byte character as your password for your shell account
 421 2011-04-08 02:47:08 <gasteve> gjs278: there is no such DB that contains my passwords
 422 2011-04-08 02:47:24 <gjs278> how are they stored then(don't answer this, I could be an ATTACXER)
 423 2011-04-08 02:47:36 <gasteve> I don't use a shell account (and if I did, I'd use key based auth, not a password)
 424 2011-04-08 02:47:47 <gjs278> so they go on your ftp
 425 2011-04-08 02:47:50 Spenvo has joined
 426 2011-04-08 02:47:57 <gasteve> my passwords are not stored at all ...anywhere....that's the point
 427 2011-04-08 02:48:05 <gjs278> how could they not be
 428 2011-04-08 02:48:08 ApertureScience has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 429 2011-04-08 02:48:12 <gjs278> if you use that website as a lookup service
 430 2011-04-08 02:48:14 <gjs278> they have it somehow
 431 2011-04-08 02:48:16 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 432 2011-04-08 02:48:29 <JFK911> gasteve: oh its yours
 433 2011-04-08 02:48:37 <JFK911> i thought you had a public website
 434 2011-04-08 02:48:38 ApertureScience has joined
 435 2011-04-08 02:48:41 <JFK911> er
 436 2011-04-08 02:48:45 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, i store half of my passwords on a card in my wallet
 437 2011-04-08 02:48:46 <JFK911> were using one
 438 2011-04-08 02:49:11 <gasteve> I have a master password...and I hash that with a domain name, user id, another secret, a password length to yield a password used to log into a website
 439 2011-04-08 02:49:37 <gjs278> ok
 440 2011-04-08 02:49:40 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, i use that on a bunch of sites also, it's simply sha1(domain+password)
 441 2011-04-08 02:49:41 <gasteve> read passwordmaker.org it'll describe the concept to you
 442 2011-04-08 02:49:43 <gjs278> so do you store the end hashes somewhere
 443 2011-04-08 02:49:49 <phantomcircuit> unfortunately a lot of sites reject passwords like that
 444 2011-04-08 02:50:16 <gasteve> phantomcircuit: I've not encountered any website where this is a problem
 445 2011-04-08 02:50:34 <gjs278> just make your password sql injections
 446 2011-04-08 02:50:57 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, twitter comes to mind
 447 2011-04-08 02:51:21 <phantomcircuit> anyways i store half of important passwords on a card in my wallet
 448 2011-04-08 02:51:24 <phantomcircuit> and the other half in my head
 449 2011-04-08 02:51:31 <gasteve> I don't use twitter...but what's the issue?  are you telling me it won't allow a password with upper/lowercase letters and numbers?
 450 2011-04-08 02:51:35 <gjs278> phantomcircuit go accept my pull request
 451 2011-04-08 02:51:35 <phantomcircuit> what you know and what you have
 452 2011-04-08 02:51:36 <phantomcircuit> :P
 453 2011-04-08 02:51:52 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, busy with pseudo paying work
 454 2011-04-08 02:51:55 <phantomcircuit> but sure why not
 455 2011-04-08 02:51:59 <phantomcircuit> im pretending to work anyways
 456 2011-04-08 02:52:00 <phantomcircuit> lol
 457 2011-04-08 02:52:02 <gjs278> ok
 458 2011-04-08 02:52:03 <gjs278> so am I
 459 2011-04-08 02:52:09 <gjs278> I've been on a skype call with work for like 2 hours now
 460 2011-04-08 02:52:12 <gjs278> haven't said a word
 461 2011-04-08 02:52:16 <phantomcircuit> <3
 462 2011-04-08 02:52:26 <gasteve> gjs278: best kind of work if you can get it ;)
 463 2011-04-08 02:52:34 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, http://covertinferno.org/~phantomcircuit/password.html
 464 2011-04-08 02:53:35 <gjs278> every week all I do is newsletters and encoding old crappy avis into x264 outputs
 465 2011-04-08 02:55:19 EvanR has joined
 466 2011-04-08 02:56:22 <gasteve> phantomcircuit: yes, same idea...except I also have an input that is an arbitrary string (used for cases when a website forces me to change a password), and a password length (used for stupid sites that limit the password length the ridiculous small sizes) ...and I keep a profiles file encrypted on the server so that I don't have to remember all of those inputs for every website
 467 2011-04-08 02:57:17 <gasteve> and some websites have quirky restrictions on the characters (so I can also specify the domain of characters to use for the generated password)
 468 2011-04-08 02:58:06 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, i've been tempted to include a database of password constraints for websites
 469 2011-04-08 02:58:24 <phantomcircuit> but then i realize that for 99% of sites im ok using pazzword
 470 2011-04-08 02:58:25 <phantomcircuit> lol
 471 2011-04-08 02:59:45 <gasteve> in any case...it was out of growing frustration in remembering passwors...and growing anxiety that websites wheren't adequately protecting password (and data) that I decided this was the best course of action
 472 2011-04-08 03:01:25 <gasteve> (and, if you think that's a little over the top, I should tell you my scheme for enabling my parents, inlaws, and spouse access my online assets in case of some emergency)
 473 2011-04-08 03:01:31 <phantomcircuit> lol so i just installed redmine
 474 2011-04-08 03:01:34 <phantomcircuit> without git support
 475 2011-04-08 03:01:36 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
 476 2011-04-08 03:02:11 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, the only acceptable solution for that is passwords printed out and in a safe deposit box
 477 2011-04-08 03:02:27 <gasteve> ok ;)
 478 2011-04-08 03:02:28 <luke-jr> jgarzik: fwiw, cpuminer fails solo mining on testnet for me :/
 479 2011-04-08 03:02:54 <gasteve> so, my parents and inlaws are only somewhat technically inclined ...so keep that in mind
 480 2011-04-08 03:03:37 <gjs278> cpuminer failed a lot for me on certain machines trying to compile it
 481 2011-04-08 03:03:41 <gjs278> I forget what was wrong with it
 482 2011-04-08 03:03:56 <gjs278> but eventually I got working binaries for it so I use those for every machine I put it on now
 483 2011-04-08 03:04:12 <gjs278> it would just segfault on startup
 484 2011-04-08 03:04:15 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, i think they can figure out url:username:password
 485 2011-04-08 03:05:00 <gasteve> I have a 24 byte code that's divided into 4 parts...my parents, my inlaws and my wife each have 2 of the 4 parts...any 2 of the 3 of them can get together and learn 3 of the 4 parts...and those 3 parts are sufficent to decode instructions on where to get the 4 part that enables them to decode complete instructions on how to access websites, wallets, gpg identities, etc
 486 2011-04-08 03:05:08 Toadie has joined
 487 2011-04-08 03:05:11 <gjs278> that's retarded
 488 2011-04-08 03:05:41 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, sounds like an excellent way to guarantee probate lasts forever
 489 2011-04-08 03:05:44 <gasteve> and yes, they keep printed instructions in safe deposit boxes
 490 2011-04-08 03:05:47 ApertureScience has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 491 2011-04-08 03:06:23 <gjs278> imagine your parents trying to convert your bitcoins to cash that would be hilarious
 492 2011-04-08 03:06:41 <gasteve> part of the instructions include people the can contact that can help them with the technical aspects
 493 2011-04-08 03:07:24 <gasteve> well, actually, my parents are quite technically inclined...as is my wife and her parents...so it's not as much of an issue as it would be for many people
 494 2011-04-08 03:07:34 <gjs278> all of my money is in a bank... so not the biggest ordeal to get what I have
 495 2011-04-08 03:07:54 <gjs278> I can't think of any websites that would matter
 496 2011-04-08 03:09:52 <gasteve> I don't keep all of my wealth in the banking system
 497 2011-04-08 03:09:54 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, haha that's what you think
 498 2011-04-08 03:10:12 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, i was effectively responsible for closing probate for my grandma's estate
 499 2011-04-08 03:10:20 taaz has joined
 500 2011-04-08 03:10:22 <phantomcircuit> getting money from the banks was basically impossible
 501 2011-04-08 03:10:26 <gjs278> my dad is linked to the account, he could go there right now
 502 2011-04-08 03:10:29 <gjs278> and they'd give it all to him
 503 2011-04-08 03:10:36 <gjs278> he could do this while I'm alive as well (lol)
 504 2011-04-08 03:10:48 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, yeah but when you die he cant
 505 2011-04-08 03:10:51 <phantomcircuit> it's dumb
 506 2011-04-08 03:11:07 <gjs278> actually
 507 2011-04-08 03:11:08 <phantomcircuit> once the bank is made aware that he's died they're required to lock the account from all account holders
 508 2011-04-08 03:11:17 <phantomcircuit> note that this includes your account if he dies
 509 2011-04-08 03:11:22 <phantomcircuit> it's a massive pita
 510 2011-04-08 03:11:31 <gjs278> he just won't say anything
 511 2011-04-08 03:11:35 <gjs278> I'll go tell him now
 512 2011-04-08 03:11:36 <phantomcircuit> yeah
 513 2011-04-08 03:11:46 <gjs278> banks are pretty retarded about that though
 514 2011-04-08 03:11:52 <phantomcircuit> that was our plan too unfortunately suntrust checks obituaries
 515 2011-04-08 03:11:58 <gjs278> lol
 516 2011-04-08 03:12:17 <gjs278> I'll tell them to not write one of those... then nobody will know. if a family member gets in trouble they can just steal my identity
 517 2011-04-08 03:12:26 <gasteve> phantomcircuit: there is a financial incentive for them to check obituaries
 518 2011-04-08 03:13:08 <gjs278> yeah so they can keep the money as long as possible and loan it out
 519 2011-04-08 03:13:13 <gjs278> and put it in money markets
 520 2011-04-08 03:13:27 <gjs278> under the guise of "protecting" the money
 521 2011-04-08 03:13:36 <gasteve> well, not only that, but I imagine a significant percentage goes unclaimed
 522 2011-04-08 03:13:44 <gjs278> yep
 523 2011-04-08 03:13:54 <gjs278> like fry's on futurama
 524 2011-04-08 03:13:57 <gjs278> he cashed in though
 525 2011-04-08 03:14:05 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, at some point they have to turn it over to the state
 526 2011-04-08 03:14:09 <phantomcircuit> in florida it's 1 year
 527 2011-04-08 03:14:15 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 528 2011-04-08 03:14:15 <gasteve> hahaha
 529 2011-04-08 03:14:20 <phantomcircuit> it took about that long to get most of my grandmas money
 530 2011-04-08 03:14:29 <phantomcircuit> it's easier to get from the state than from the banks
 531 2011-04-08 03:14:29 <gasteve> even more financial incentive  ...lol
 532 2011-04-08 03:14:40 <gasteve> the conspiracy is fully revealed ;)
 533 2011-04-08 03:14:41 <gjs278> don't try and ruin that episode of futurama on me, if I ever get frozen I'm heading to my bank first thing
 534 2011-04-08 03:16:07 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, lol
 535 2011-04-08 03:16:19 <gasteve> regulations of the state force banks to monitor obituaries constantly and shut down account access immediately so the state can confiscate any unclaimed funds
 536 2011-04-08 03:16:28 <gasteve> nice gigg
 537 2011-04-08 03:16:36 <gjs278> ok
 538 2011-04-08 03:16:38 <gjs278> in that case
 539 2011-04-08 03:16:45 <gjs278> I'm writing a fake obituary
 540 2011-04-08 03:16:48 <gjs278> for the next person I hate
 541 2011-04-08 03:16:52 <phantomcircuit> lol
 542 2011-04-08 03:16:54 <gasteve> lol
 543 2011-04-08 03:16:56 <gasteve> nice
 544 2011-04-08 03:17:09 <phantomcircuit> something tells me showing up to the bank and yelling would get that fixed asap
 545 2011-04-08 03:17:16 <gjs278> IM ALIVE
 546 2011-04-08 03:17:25 <gjs278> they'd call ghostbusters
 547 2011-04-08 03:18:06 <gasteve> my bank is virtual...so where would I show up?
 548 2011-04-08 03:18:31 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, you'd be screwed
 549 2011-04-08 03:18:32 <phantomcircuit> lolol
 550 2011-04-08 03:18:35 * gasteve imagines having to fly to the banks corporate HQ
 551 2011-04-08 03:18:46 <gasteve> (just to prove I'm still alive)
 552 2011-04-08 03:19:12 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 553 2011-04-08 03:19:17 <gjs278> wow
 554 2011-04-08 03:19:22 <gjs278> no way I would use a pure virtual bank
 555 2011-04-08 03:20:22 <gasteve> I can't stand brick and mortar...I haven't set foot in a bank in 15 years...such a waste building all those buildings on every corner
 556 2011-04-08 03:20:59 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, nah physical banks are necessary for cash deposits
 557 2011-04-08 03:21:00 <gjs278> if I had a pure virtual bank my only goal would be to take the money and run after about 10 years of building up rep
 558 2011-04-08 03:21:26 <phantomcircuit> the local bofa branch spends about 4 hours everyday just processing nightly deposits
 559 2011-04-08 03:21:35 <phantomcircuit> you can see them in there doing it before they open up
 560 2011-04-08 03:22:21 kumi has joined
 561 2011-04-08 03:23:13 <gasteve> I deposit almost no cash (but use ATM when I do)...so it's not that much of an issue for me.
 562 2011-04-08 03:24:13 <gasteve> usually, I'm taking cash out of the banking system...not putting it in ;)
 563 2011-04-08 03:24:16 <phantomcircuit> yeah
 564 2011-04-08 03:24:33 Speeder has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 565 2011-04-08 03:25:07 <gasteve> I just wish ATMs would distribute 100s instead of 20s and didn't have $1000/day limit
 566 2011-04-08 03:25:17 <phantomcircuit> 1k/day?
 567 2011-04-08 03:25:20 <phantomcircuit> usually it's 300
 568 2011-04-08 03:25:31 <Validus> you can get it upped at the bank
 569 2011-04-08 03:25:42 <Validus> my boss did that so he could over $1k a day
 570 2011-04-08 03:25:50 <gasteve> my bank has $1000/day limit and I found a local ATM that will dispense up to that amount
 571 2011-04-08 03:26:17 <phantomcircuit> hmm
 572 2011-04-08 03:26:28 <phantomcircuit> lol
 573 2011-04-08 03:26:31 <gasteve> (with gold trading close to $1500...this is actually an issue for me believe it or not)
 574 2011-04-08 03:26:42 <phantomcircuit> i tried to withdraw 10k from a bofa once from a business account
 575 2011-04-08 03:26:53 <Validus> ya you have to go in and talk to someone higher up usually at the bank and explain
 576 2011-04-08 03:26:56 <phantomcircuit> the teller just gave me a funny look and was like "we dont have that much here"
 577 2011-04-08 03:26:58 <Validus> they'll usually take care of investors
 578 2011-04-08 03:27:23 <Validus> especially since their recent bailouts and crapt thats been going on. they would be retarded not to
 579 2011-04-08 03:27:33 osmosis has left ("Ex-Chat")
 580 2011-04-08 03:27:35 <gasteve> yeah, but they're all happy when you deposit such amounts ;)
 581 2011-04-08 03:27:51 <Validus> get past the hot chick working the counter and get a manager or someone higher than him :P
 582 2011-04-08 03:28:43 <Validus> anyone have any experience running 1080p tv's instead of a monitor? im thinking of getting a 42" 1080p lcd
 583 2011-04-08 03:28:52 <Validus> you can pm me since its off topic
 584 2011-04-08 03:30:21 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
 585 2011-04-08 03:30:38 <phantomcircuit> Validus, lol the bank literally didn't have 10k in cash on premises
 586 2011-04-08 03:30:52 <Validus> smh. change banks or move to a city
 587 2011-04-08 03:30:55 <phantomcircuit> i had to come back the next day
 588 2011-04-08 03:31:04 <Validus> banks are required to have so much on hand and most do. i've never heard of that happening
 589 2011-04-08 03:31:05 <gasteve> these things are actually kind of disturbing when you think about it...I mean, $10k is not a lot of money (think about how long you could survive on $10k)...yet, the fact that banks look at you funny when dealing in those amounts leads me to believe there aren't that many people keeping wealth outside the banking system...when things collapse...that's not going to be good
 590 2011-04-08 03:31:13 <phantomcircuit> Validus, 1080p isn't very high def
 591 2011-04-08 03:31:27 <Validus> ok well a monitor that can do 2560 x #### is $1k+
 592 2011-04-08 03:31:31 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: well, it's decent for maybe 21" monitor
 593 2011-04-08 03:31:41 <Validus> 27 inch monitor does 1920 x 1280. 1080p is 1920 x 1080
 594 2011-04-08 03:31:45 <Validus> its 350
 595 2011-04-08 03:31:59 <Validus> so im worried how itll show text cuz id rather get a 42 inch display lol
 596 2011-04-08 03:32:04 <gasteve> I try to tell friends not to place so much trust in the little numbers they see in their web browsers
 597 2011-04-08 03:32:14 <luke-jr> Validus: text is the same size regardless of resolution or monitor size
 598 2011-04-08 03:32:17 <luke-jr> Validus: the problem is *quality*
 599 2011-04-08 03:32:23 <Validus> tv to monitor is not the same though
 600 2011-04-08 03:32:30 <luke-jr> I bet small things will be blocky
 601 2011-04-08 03:32:34 <Validus> this is 50,000:1 contrast ratio (acm) i think
 602 2011-04-08 03:32:44 <Validus> it does 1920 x 1080 max resolution. same as a 27 inch monitor
 603 2011-04-08 03:32:45 <luke-jr> contrast ratio can't make up for poor DPI
 604 2011-04-08 03:32:52 <Validus> ya i know thats what im wondering about
 605 2011-04-08 03:33:09 <Validus> i know someone that uses a 56" for web browsing and games and it works fine. t hey use 2 23" screens for irc and other things
 606 2011-04-08 03:33:50 <Validus> theres no mediocre in monitors at all. its 27 inch at 350+ and then to $1k+ for 30"+
 607 2011-04-08 03:34:05 <Validus> i did see one 30" monitor t hat was absolute shit for specs around 400
 608 2011-04-08 03:34:21 <luke-jr> Validus: 1920x1080 on 27 inch is like 82 DPI
 609 2011-04-08 03:34:22 <Validus> i got 700 to spend on my display, keyboard, mouse, speakers
 610 2011-04-08 03:34:38 <Validus> but im ordering a das keyboard on student special for $98 shipped
 611 2011-04-08 03:34:44 <Validus> cant beat that for a mechanical keyboard
 612 2011-04-08 03:35:06 <luke-jr> …
 613 2011-04-08 03:35:12 <luke-jr> it's just a keyboard
 614 2011-04-08 03:35:12 <Validus> normal is 130
 615 2011-04-08 03:35:17 <Validus> no its not just a keyboard
 616 2011-04-08 03:35:23 <Validus> if so you've never used a mechanical keyboard
 617 2011-04-08 03:35:28 <luke-jr> sure I have
 618 2011-04-08 03:35:31 <luke-jr> just not recently
 619 2011-04-08 03:35:35 <Validus> its not some pos logitech with a screen on it hehe
 620 2011-04-08 03:35:53 <Validus> i should get the blanked out one. no letters on any keys but no thatll cause problems with other people
 621 2011-04-08 03:35:55 <phantomcircuit> Validus, lol
 622 2011-04-08 03:36:07 <luke-jr> Validus: at that price, it had better be Dvorak
 623 2011-04-08 03:36:09 <phantomcircuit> who the fuck nees letters on their keyboard
 624 2011-04-08 03:36:10 <phantomcircuit> n00bs
 625 2011-04-08 03:36:13 <phantomcircuit> needs
 626 2011-04-08 03:36:13 <Validus> http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/
 627 2011-04-08 03:36:15 <Validus> i dont
 628 2011-04-08 03:36:22 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: you can get a $1000 kb with OLED on keys
 629 2011-04-08 03:36:23 <phantomcircuit> also
 630 2011-04-08 03:36:26 <phantomcircuit> <3 distcc
 631 2011-04-08 03:36:30 <Validus> most of mine rub off. i like to spell out msgs like go fuck yourself in my keyboard
 632 2011-04-08 03:36:46 <luke-jr> mine are not easily rearranged :/
 633 2011-04-08 03:36:49 <luke-jr> so I use stickers
 634 2011-04-08 03:36:53 <luke-jr> they come off in days
 635 2011-04-08 03:36:54 <Validus> oh the otpimus maximus, 113 oleds that display custom icons and such?
 636 2011-04-08 03:36:58 <luke-jr> yeah
 637 2011-04-08 03:36:59 <Validus> thats 1500, out of stock to
 638 2011-04-08 03:37:02 <Validus> thinkgeek has it
 639 2011-04-08 03:37:04 <luke-jr> XD
 640 2011-04-08 03:37:11 <phantomcircuit> lol i've got so many machines up now with distcc that the shell scripts are the bottleneck
 641 2011-04-08 03:37:11 <phantomcircuit> baller
 642 2011-04-08 03:37:12 <Validus> i didnt realize it had 113 oled's on it lol
 643 2011-04-08 03:37:24 <Validus> but i wouldnt ever pay that
 644 2011-04-08 03:37:27 <Validus> 100 is pushing it
 645 2011-04-08 03:37:27 <luke-jr> me either
 646 2011-04-08 03:37:34 <Validus> but 98 from 139 ill do
 647 2011-04-08 03:37:47 <luke-jr> what would be nice is a handheld PC with eInk keys
 648 2011-04-08 03:37:57 <Validus> im still torn on the display :/
 649 2011-04-08 03:38:05 <luke-jr> Validus: I just bought a new one
 650 2011-04-08 03:38:08 <phantomcircuit> Validus, is this for a desk?
 651 2011-04-08 03:38:09 <luke-jr> $170 IIRC
 652 2011-04-08 03:38:12 <Validus> i coudl go cheap as shit and do 3 21.5"'s but thats gonna cause problems with the edges
 653 2011-04-08 03:38:14 <luke-jr> 21" 1080p
 654 2011-04-08 03:38:15 <Validus> yes
 655 2011-04-08 03:38:22 <phantomcircuit> lol
 656 2011-04-08 03:38:27 <Validus> i want big. i have a 20" now .. its tiny
 657 2011-04-08 03:38:29 <luke-jr> why do you need such big crap?
 658 2011-04-08 03:38:34 <phantomcircuit> be a man, buy 3 displays and cut the bevel off
 659 2011-04-08 03:38:36 <phantomcircuit> bezel
 660 2011-04-08 03:38:39 <luke-jr> pfft
 661 2011-04-08 03:38:40 <Validus> im not doing that
 662 2011-04-08 03:38:47 <Validus> i want at least 27+ lol
 663 2011-04-08 03:38:49 <luke-jr> my eyes are lazy. 21" is enough
 664 2011-04-08 03:38:57 <Validus> or id go with multi screens at lower maybe depending on price
 665 2011-04-08 03:39:14 <Validus> i gotta get an aftermarket cooler for it to and make sure itll fit in the case with the fan
 666 2011-04-08 03:39:23 <phantomcircuit> lol this fftw library is huge
 667 2011-04-08 03:39:28 <Validus> itll be the weekend before i order it. im just waiting on my phone to go off letting me know my deposit is there
 668 2011-04-08 03:39:37 <phantomcircuit> i've got a P4 a celeron and an i3 compiling this
 669 2011-04-08 03:39:41 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: so use ftgl?
 670 2011-04-08 03:39:48 <Validus> my p4 just died a few months ago :/
 671 2011-04-08 03:39:53 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, no choice it's a package dependency
 672 2011-04-08 03:39:55 <Validus> blew a capacitor i think in the mobo. i could never figure otu why
 673 2011-04-08 03:39:56 <Validus> out*
 674 2011-04-08 03:40:22 <luke-jr> Validus: my Athlon64 was working fine when I replaced it this Jan
 675 2011-04-08 03:40:34 <luke-jr> actually, my mom is using it now
 676 2011-04-08 03:40:38 <Validus> u know whats funny i went to cyberpowerpc and with a shitter case they were within 100 of newegg lol
 677 2011-04-08 03:40:47 <Validus> just for shits and gigles to compare
 678 2011-04-08 03:40:49 <phantomcircuit> i've got a dell from 2001 that's been on pretty much for the past 4 years
 679 2011-04-08 03:40:53 <Validus> i like to see how much companies mark up their prices
 680 2011-04-08 03:41:00 <Validus> ive got a dell now. i hate it
 681 2011-04-08 03:41:05 <luke-jr> …
 682 2011-04-08 03:41:07 <Validus> oversized generic keyboard bottom row bullshit
 683 2011-04-08 03:41:12 <luke-jr> I've never bought a pre-made desktop
 684 2011-04-08 03:41:16 <Validus> this was a gift
 685 2011-04-08 03:41:18 <Validus> i never gought it
 686 2011-04-08 03:41:19 <Validus> bought*
 687 2011-04-08 03:41:47 <Validus> one of my buds sent it to me so i could goto school. but its just not for me and i need more power than this. dual core and 4 gig of ram and ive already crashed it a few times :/
 688 2011-04-08 03:41:53 <luke-jr> lol
 689 2011-04-08 03:42:01 <luke-jr> stop using windoze, n00b
 690 2011-04-08 03:42:06 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, you can get pre built desktops under the price of components
 691 2011-04-08 03:42:11 <Validus> windows or linux i can bring systems to their knees
 692 2011-04-08 03:42:17 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I doubt it.
 693 2011-04-08 03:42:25 <Validus> actually depending on what custom built place you goto
 694 2011-04-08 03:42:25 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I built my current system for under $500
 695 2011-04-08 03:42:39 <gjs278> well like 3 years ago
 696 2011-04-08 03:42:40 <Validus> cyberpowerpc has sometimes decent deals. but if its not on a deal of the week it probably wont be
 697 2011-04-08 03:42:45 <gjs278> I definitely got a prebuilt for less than the cost
 698 2011-04-08 03:42:47 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, mine was $400
 699 2011-04-08 03:42:50 <gjs278> because it came with a monitor too
 700 2011-04-08 03:42:53 <luke-jr> gjs278: not with the same specs
 701 2011-04-08 03:43:07 <Validus> i just built out an i5 2500k 3.4 ghz, 8 gig of ram, dual gtx 560's , 1 tb hdd for 1300
 702 2011-04-08 03:43:11 <gjs278> yes it was
 703 2011-04-08 03:43:14 <Validus> with a coolermaster $200 case
 704 2011-04-08 03:43:16 <Validus> full tower
 705 2011-04-08 03:43:17 <luke-jr> this is an i5-2400, 2 PCI-e x16, 2 TB HD, 8 GB RAM
 706 2011-04-08 03:43:20 <Validus> ati cant get their shti together
 707 2011-04-08 03:43:26 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 708 2011-04-08 03:43:32 <gjs278> pentium d when it was new baby
 709 2011-04-08 03:43:33 <luke-jr> Validus: K = ftl
 710 2011-04-08 03:43:37 <Validus> i game. im just going to have to suffer
 711 2011-04-08 03:43:51 <gjs278> k is not ftl, unlocked multipliers owns
 712 2011-04-08 03:43:52 <Validus> actually with sandy bridge recall over and the boards working proper the K is just unlocked
 713 2011-04-08 03:43:57 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i3-550, 1 PCIx16, 1TB hdd, 8GB ram
 714 2011-04-08 03:44:00 <luke-jr> gjs278: no, it doesn't.
 715 2011-04-08 03:44:07 <phantomcircuit> lovely onboard gpu
 716 2011-04-08 03:44:11 <Validus> thet i5-2500 and i7-2600 are not unlocked
 717 2011-04-08 03:44:12 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: in other words, maybe half of mine
 718 2011-04-08 03:44:14 <gjs278> how could it not own
 719 2011-04-08 03:44:28 <Validus> the K's are. and they have intel hd 3000 in the K series, int the chip but im not using that
 720 2011-04-08 03:44:37 <luke-jr> Validus: the K also have features disabled
 721 2011-04-08 03:44:41 <Validus> the had problems with the sata 3gb/s ports on mobo's and something with the cpu itself
 722 2011-04-08 03:44:41 <gjs278> like what
 723 2011-04-08 03:44:52 <Validus> K is not disabled. its an unlocked chip. thats what the K is there for
 724 2011-04-08 03:44:53 <luke-jr> Validus: you can't use the GPU with an overclock-enabled motherboard
 725 2011-04-08 03:45:01 <Validus> ive been searching for 2 weeks on forums on sandy bridges
 726 2011-04-08 03:45:04 <luke-jr> Validus: K also has VT-d disabled
 727 2011-04-08 03:45:17 <Validus> and ive seen oc's to 5ghz with no problems
 728 2011-04-08 03:45:24 <luke-jr> gjs278: unlocked multiplier is only useful for damaging your chip
 729 2011-04-08 03:45:33 <luke-jr> Validus: nonsense.
 730 2011-04-08 03:45:34 <Validus> its unlocked if its a K , the K means unlocked and intel hd 3000 instead of 2000 integrated graphics
 731 2011-04-08 03:45:35 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, mine took 0 hours of my time to build and was available the day my laptop died
 732 2011-04-08 03:45:38 <Validus> look it up man
 733 2011-04-08 03:45:41 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, id pay $200 for that
 734 2011-04-08 03:45:42 <Validus> they just got over the recall earlier
 735 2011-04-08 03:45:43 <luke-jr> Validus: just because you don't see problems, doesn't mean there aren't problems
 736 2011-04-08 03:45:54 <Validus> they pulled every cpu and board from every major retailer
 737 2011-04-08 03:46:00 <Validus> and replaced anyone who had a faulty one
 738 2011-04-08 03:46:01 <luke-jr> Validus: they didn't pull any CPUs
 739 2011-04-08 03:46:04 <Validus> yes they did
 740 2011-04-08 03:46:07 <luke-jr> nope
 741 2011-04-08 03:46:09 <Validus> whatever
 742 2011-04-08 03:46:11 <phantomcircuit> i fucking hate software that insists on building object files in order
 743 2011-04-08 03:46:13 <Validus> im not arguing this. look it up
 744 2011-04-08 03:46:25 <luke-jr> Validus: I know what I'm talking about.
 745 2011-04-08 03:46:32 <Validus> twit.tv just had a thing on them before the dual core's sandy bridges came out
 746 2011-04-08 03:46:35 taco_the_paco has joined
 747 2011-04-08 03:46:41 <Validus> and then they dropped 1366 and went to 1155 for the revised ones
 748 2011-04-08 03:46:42 taco_the_paco has quit (Changing host)
 749 2011-04-08 03:46:42 taco_the_paco has joined
 750 2011-04-08 03:46:50 <Validus> if you knew what you were talking about you would know that then
 751 2011-04-08 03:46:56 <Validus> that was just a few months
 752 2011-04-08 03:46:59 <luke-jr> Validus: I've been using it since a week after Intel released them.
 753 2011-04-08 03:47:04 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 754 2011-04-08 03:47:20 <phantomcircuit> Validus, they pulled the mobo' but only the ones actualyl using the specific sata ports that had trouble, which most boards dont use
 755 2011-04-08 03:47:23 <Validus> well when i get it unlocked and oc' the shit outa of it to i guess you'll accuse me of just making it up
 756 2011-04-08 03:47:23 <luke-jr> I intentionally didn't get K because they are disabled.
 757 2011-04-08 03:47:37 <luke-jr> Validus: no, I'm going to accuse you of being a fool
 758 2011-04-08 03:47:41 <Validus> right.
 759 2011-04-08 03:47:42 <Validus> thast it
 760 2011-04-08 03:47:44 <Validus> smh
 761 2011-04-08 03:47:45 <luke-jr> overclocking = damaging
 762 2011-04-08 03:47:55 gjs278 has joined
 763 2011-04-08 03:47:56 <Validus> well you obviously have no idea what your talking about on them. sorry
 764 2011-04-08 03:47:58 <gjs278> I crashed
 765 2011-04-08 03:48:00 <gjs278> ok
 766 2011-04-08 03:48:00 <Validus> post me some links. lets see it
 767 2011-04-08 03:48:00 <luke-jr> you'll be lucky if the CPU lasts 2 years
 768 2011-04-08 03:48:02 <gjs278> what was wrong with k's
 769 2011-04-08 03:48:07 <luke-jr> Validus: VT-d
 770 2011-04-08 03:48:13 <Validus> the K's are unlocked . and luke jr swears its bad
 771 2011-04-08 03:48:18 <Validus> and faulty
 772 2011-04-08 03:48:19 <gjs278> Validus are you overvolting
 773 2011-04-08 03:48:24 <Validus> i havent even got it yet
 774 2011-04-08 03:48:27 <gjs278> oh
 775 2011-04-08 03:48:29 <gjs278> ok
 776 2011-04-08 03:48:30 <gjs278> well
 777 2011-04-08 03:48:32 <Validus> thats what im ordering
 778 2011-04-08 03:48:32 <gjs278> don't be crazy
 779 2011-04-08 03:48:34 <gjs278> that's my only advice
 780 2011-04-08 03:48:34 <luke-jr> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2133898
 781 2011-04-08 03:48:39 <gjs278> like don't overvolt too high
 782 2011-04-08 03:48:41 <Validus> adn this better be from this month also
 783 2011-04-08 03:48:53 <Validus> as the recall just ended end of march and 1st week of april on replacing ppls mobos
 784 2011-04-08 03:49:09 <Validus> and the major retailers just got the other ones in. as the dual core sandy bridges were not out at the time of the recall and they were on 1366, and now their on 1155
 785 2011-04-08 03:49:17 <luke-jr> this is about CPUs, not mobos
 786 2011-04-08 03:49:17 <Validus> lga 1155* and the d ual cores are finally out also
 787 2011-04-08 03:49:23 <Validus> im talking about the damn cpu fool
 788 2011-04-08 03:49:25 <gjs278> I think you get vt-x
 789 2011-04-08 03:49:30 <Validus> your cpu has a fucking array of what the fuck its going to fit into
 790 2011-04-08 03:49:43 <Validus> ffs
 791 2011-04-08 03:50:03 <luke-jr> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i5_microprocessors#.22Sandy_Bridge.22_.2832_nm.29_2
 792 2011-04-08 03:50:06 <Validus> that would be like saying no lga matters at all
 793 2011-04-08 03:50:06 <luke-jr> gjs278: not VT-d
 794 2011-04-08 03:50:12 <gjs278> is vt-d better
 795 2011-04-08 03:50:15 <luke-jr> gjs278: yes
 796 2011-04-08 03:50:18 <Validus> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html
 797 2011-04-08 03:50:19 <gjs278> at what
 798 2011-04-08 03:50:29 <luke-jr> gjs278: VT-d allows you to put real hardware in a VM
 799 2011-04-08 03:50:34 <gjs278> lol
 800 2011-04-08 03:50:43 <gjs278> Validus are you going to put real hardware in a vm
 801 2011-04-08 03:50:48 <Validus> nope
 802 2011-04-08 03:50:51 <Validus> i run real os's not vm's
 803 2011-04-08 03:50:53 <luke-jr> for example, connecting a couple of Radeons to a VM so they don't interfere with your real OS
 804 2011-04-08 03:50:55 <Validus> id dual boot
 805 2011-04-08 03:51:00 <gjs278> I see
 806 2011-04-08 03:51:03 <Validus> and evne so , so what
 807 2011-04-08 03:51:07 <Validus> his other points are non valid
 808 2011-04-08 03:51:14 <gjs278> I always go the non vt-d route then I guess with that
 809 2011-04-08 03:51:14 <luke-jr> or for another example, putting your video card in a Windows VM while you run Linux
 810 2011-04-08 03:51:20 <Validus> if you check any recent intel forum or tech. you'd be looking foolish right now
 811 2011-04-08 03:51:24 <luke-jr> and playing your stupid Windows games at normal speed
 812 2011-04-08 03:51:35 <gjs278> you mean playing windows games in a vm?
 813 2011-04-08 03:51:38 <luke-jr> yes
 814 2011-04-08 03:51:40 <luke-jr> at full speed
 815 2011-04-08 03:51:40 <Validus> wtf would i do that
 816 2011-04-08 03:51:44 <gjs278> that just barely works in virtualbox
 817 2011-04-08 03:51:45 <gjs278> well
 818 2011-04-08 03:51:49 <gjs278> virtualbox it wouldnt work
 819 2011-04-08 03:51:53 <Validus> so i shouldnt buy an unlocked chip and get lower integrated graphics for vt-d?
 820 2011-04-08 03:51:53 <gjs278> because they dont have full 3d support
 821 2011-04-08 03:51:54 <Validus> lol
 822 2011-04-08 03:51:55 <luke-jr> gjs278: it would work 100% normal speed with VT-d and a video card
 823 2011-04-08 03:52:06 <Validus> your funny
 824 2011-04-08 03:52:11 <luke-jr> gjs278: the VM would have direct access to the hardware
 825 2011-04-08 03:52:18 <Validus> actually the p67's are for oc'n and the h67's are for your graphics
 826 2011-04-08 03:52:21 <gjs278> maybe vmware
 827 2011-04-08 03:52:22 <Validus> depends on the mobo you buy to
 828 2011-04-08 03:52:27 <luke-jr> gjs278: Xen
 829 2011-04-08 03:52:34 <gjs278> they don't actually have vt-d support inside of virtualbox yet
 830 2011-04-08 03:52:38 <gjs278> I think
 831 2011-04-08 03:52:39 <Validus> ive been researching this for a while
 832 2011-04-08 03:52:46 <Validus> virtualbox uses opengl anyways
 833 2011-04-08 03:52:48 <luke-jr> gjs278: VirtualBox is lame
 834 2011-04-08 03:52:52 <Validus> vmware says directx support but its shitty
 835 2011-04-08 03:52:53 <gjs278> virtualbox is great
 836 2011-04-08 03:52:58 <luke-jr> Validus: that's emulation fool
 837 2011-04-08 03:53:04 <luke-jr> with VT-d you don't NEED emulation
 838 2011-04-08 03:53:11 <Validus> whatever luke man. you are odd
 839 2011-04-08 03:53:12 <luke-jr> you have DIRECT access to the REAL video card from the VM
 840 2011-04-08 03:53:25 <Validus> and if your going with vt-d you s houdl be buying a h67 mobo on top of it
 841 2011-04-08 03:53:31 <luke-jr> I have a H67
 842 2011-04-08 03:53:32 <Validus> thats what its for is dealing with certain thigns with the graphics etc
 843 2011-04-08 03:53:34 <Validus> ya im not
 844 2011-04-08 03:53:37 <Validus> im getting a p67
 845 2011-04-08 03:53:39 <luke-jr> also, Intel screwed up
 846 2011-04-08 03:53:44 <luke-jr> VT-d is broken in P67 and H67 both
 847 2011-04-08 03:53:50 <Validus> i dont care about vt-d
 848 2011-04-08 03:53:53 <Validus> at all
 849 2011-04-08 03:53:54 <Validus> none
 850 2011-04-08 03:53:54 <Validus> 0
 851 2011-04-08 03:53:55 <gjs278> so... it doesn't matter then I guess
 852 2011-04-08 03:53:58 <luke-jr> Validus: good for you, I do
 853 2011-04-08 03:54:02 <gjs278> even if he did have it it wouldn't work lol
 854 2011-04-08 03:54:07 EvanR has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 855 2011-04-08 03:54:08 <luke-jr> gjs278: I'm replacing the H67 with a Q67 which has it fixed
 856 2011-04-08 03:54:11 <Validus> im glad they fixed tehir recalls and the faulty sata 3gb/s ports
 857 2011-04-08 03:54:18 <gjs278> what are you using it for, gaming in xen?
 858 2011-04-08 03:54:21 <luke-jr> Validus: they onyl fixed the SATA, not the VT-d
 859 2011-04-08 03:54:23 <Validus> adn yes they did pull chips of the market , off of newegg, tiger direct
 860 2011-04-08 03:54:24 <luke-jr> gjs278: mining
 861 2011-04-08 03:54:25 EvanR has joined
 862 2011-04-08 03:54:25 <Validus> everywhere
 863 2011-04-08 03:54:29 <gjs278> why though
 864 2011-04-08 03:54:29 <Validus> and then mobos to you coudlnt buy any of them
 865 2011-04-08 03:54:30 <luke-jr> Validus: nope
 866 2011-04-08 03:54:32 <gjs278> you can do it in linux
 867 2011-04-08 03:54:35 <luke-jr> Validus: NewEgg just de-listed them
 868 2011-04-08 03:54:40 <Validus> ya im sure they just got hacked and it wasnt listing them
 869 2011-04-08 03:54:45 <Validus> thats it
 870 2011-04-08 03:54:46 <luke-jr> gjs278: no, you can't.
 871 2011-04-08 03:54:52 <gjs278> multiple cards?
 872 2011-04-08 03:54:54 <luke-jr> gjs278: you need to install binary blob mods to Linux
 873 2011-04-08 03:54:55 <Validus> i just looked recently
 874 2011-04-08 03:54:59 <gjs278> hahaha
 875 2011-04-08 03:55:00 <Validus> and they were not htere. now they are
 876 2011-04-08 03:55:03 <gjs278> hahahahahahaha
 877 2011-04-08 03:55:09 <Validus> it was my gay windows firefox playing tricks on me
 878 2011-04-08 03:55:10 <gjs278> wpw
 879 2011-04-08 03:55:12 <gjs278> wow
 880 2011-04-08 03:55:14 <luke-jr> Validus: NewEgg de-listed them because they didn't have motherboards
 881 2011-04-08 03:55:15 <gjs278> that's your opposition to it
 882 2011-04-08 03:55:20 <luke-jr> Validus: but NewEgg always had their stock
 883 2011-04-08 03:55:21 <Validus> adn it was on 1366 t hen also
 884 2011-04-08 03:55:25 <gjs278> you won't mine in linux because you have to use fglrx instead of radeon?
 885 2011-04-08 03:55:27 <Validus> and the lga 1155 chips were not out yet
 886 2011-04-08 03:55:32 <Validus> or the dual cores.
 887 2011-04-08 03:55:38 <Validus> read some news or something man
 888 2011-04-08 03:55:41 <gjs278> or attach firmwares to the kernel
 889 2011-04-08 03:55:41 <luke-jr> gjs278: I'm mining. But I accept that it isn't Linux I'm using anymore.
 890 2011-04-08 03:55:46 <gjs278> for kms
 891 2011-04-08 03:55:58 <Validus> the lga 1155 happend after the recall of the mobos
 892 2011-04-08 03:56:04 <gjs278> I hope you don't use skype
 893 2011-04-08 03:56:05 <gjs278> or flash
 894 2011-04-08 03:56:10 <luke-jr> gjs278: VT-d will let me restore Linux, and restrict fglrx to a VM
 895 2011-04-08 03:56:13 <luke-jr> gjs278: nope
 896 2011-04-08 03:56:16 <gjs278> cool
 897 2011-04-08 03:56:16 <Validus> thats when they came out and they dropped the 1366 mostly and wanted to go mostly 1155
 898 2011-04-08 03:56:31 <gjs278> I don't even think opera is open actually
 899 2011-04-08 03:56:35 <luke-jr> nope
 900 2011-04-08 03:56:39 <luke-jr> I use Konqueror
 901 2011-04-08 03:56:44 <Validus> bleh
 902 2011-04-08 03:56:46 <Validus> kde is shit
 903 2011-04-08 03:56:54 <luke-jr> Validus: everything else is worse
 904 2011-04-08 03:56:57 <gjs278> no
 905 2011-04-08 03:57:00 <gjs278> fluxbox owns
 906 2011-04-08 03:57:00 <luke-jr> yes
 907 2011-04-08 03:57:03 <luke-jr> oh
 908 2011-04-08 03:57:04 <Validus> i tweak the living shit outa gnome and xfce
 909 2011-04-08 03:57:09 <luke-jr> Fluxbox. not sure about that, it's just a WM
 910 2011-04-08 03:57:10 <gjs278> gnome is garbage
 911 2011-04-08 03:57:10 <luke-jr> no apps
 912 2011-04-08 03:57:13 <Validus> and you can make them look great
 913 2011-04-08 03:57:18 <gjs278> you mean Kapps right
 914 2011-04-08 03:57:37 <Validus> i never keep defaults of anything i cant stand it
 915 2011-04-08 03:57:46 <luke-jr> Validus: me either, that's why I hate GNOME
 916 2011-04-08 03:57:48 <gjs278> gnome is unsavable
 917 2011-04-08 03:57:50 <luke-jr> well, one reason why
 918 2011-04-08 03:57:54 <Validus> what do you mean unsavable?
 919 2011-04-08 03:58:02 <luke-jr> GNOME 3 *could have been* decent, if they used Qt
 920 2011-04-08 03:58:09 <gjs278> I mean for me, there is no amount of tweaking that could happen
 921 2011-04-08 03:58:09 <luke-jr> idiots decided to reinvent GTK though
 922 2011-04-08 03:58:10 <gjs278> omg
 923 2011-04-08 03:58:10 <Validus> i had top bar, bottom bar, turn on transparency, put no icons on the desktop. change the menu icon, get rid of the text
 924 2011-04-08 03:58:12 <gjs278> no you are trolling
 925 2011-04-08 03:58:14 <gjs278> omg
 926 2011-04-08 03:58:20 <gjs278> ok
 927 2011-04-08 03:58:30 <Validus> better than crapbuntu's fix of oh were going to make our own instead of fix our bugs
 928 2011-04-08 03:58:36 <gjs278> does qt even have c bindings
 929 2011-04-08 03:58:39 <gjs278> or is it c++
 930 2011-04-08 03:58:45 <Validus> i literally change everything in gnome to where it looks nothing default at all
 931 2011-04-08 03:58:59 <Validus> thats one reason i like it, cuz you can practically do anything you want to it
 932 2011-04-08 03:59:05 <gjs278> Validus what distro do you install
 933 2011-04-08 03:59:08 <Validus> and i hate icons on my desktop also
 934 2011-04-08 03:59:08 <gjs278> this is your major test
 935 2011-04-08 03:59:15 <Validus> mint or slackware
 936 2011-04-08 03:59:19 <gjs278> ok
 937 2011-04-08 03:59:21 <gjs278> cool
 938 2011-04-08 03:59:24 <luke-jr> gjs278: Qt is its own language basically
 939 2011-04-08 03:59:25 <Validus> i learned on slackware 7.0
 940 2011-04-08 03:59:27 <Validus> i cant get away from it
 941 2011-04-08 03:59:33 <gjs278> yes, but can you use it in c
 942 2011-04-08 03:59:36 <luke-jr> GUI doesn't make sense in C
 943 2011-04-08 03:59:42 <Validus> all debian based os's change the default locations of most things , and inittab doesnt work on any debain based os either
 944 2011-04-08 03:59:45 <gjs278> that's a pretty long way of saying "no"
 945 2011-04-08 03:59:47 <Validus> mint handles better than crapbuntu does
 946 2011-04-08 04:00:02 <gjs278> I use gtk+c all of the time
 947 2011-04-08 04:00:03 <Validus> i really dont like that distro hehe
 948 2011-04-08 04:00:07 <gjs278> because I like pain
 949 2011-04-08 04:00:14 <luke-jr> I won't use GTK apps.
 950 2011-04-08 04:00:18 <luke-jr> except when I have to.
 951 2011-04-08 04:00:21 <luke-jr> stupid Wireshark
 952 2011-04-08 04:00:22 <Validus> but not worst than centos. thats pain
 953 2011-04-08 04:00:29 <Validus> thats like needles into the eyeballs
 954 2011-04-08 04:00:41 <luke-jr> Validus: Debian *defines* the default locations
 955 2011-04-08 04:00:56 <gjs278> I use gimp, gaim, firefox, gparted, gtkpod, leafpad, rox
 956 2011-04-08 04:00:59 <gjs278> all gtk
 957 2011-04-08 04:01:02 <Validus> they change the default locations of where major things are in every linux distro
 958 2011-04-08 04:01:05 <Validus> like /etc
 959 2011-04-08 04:01:08 <Validus> and the runtime devels
 960 2011-04-08 04:01:17 <Validus> they switch it to their own names of things
 961 2011-04-08 04:01:32 <Validus> inittab has no bearing in debian based anything either, you have to unload the gdm instead
 962 2011-04-08 04:01:33 <luke-jr> gjs278: GIMP sucks compared to Krita
 963 2011-04-08 04:01:38 <Validus> i hate gui logins
 964 2011-04-08 04:01:44 <luke-jr> Pidgin ("Gaim") sucks compared to Psi
 965 2011-04-08 04:01:47 <gjs278> gimp owns all I do is use it for moving stuff and cropping
 966 2011-04-08 04:01:49 <gjs278> no
 967 2011-04-08 04:01:50 <gjs278> gaim is the best
 968 2011-04-08 04:01:53 <Validus> gimp is great
 969 2011-04-08 04:01:55 <gjs278> gaim 1.5
 970 2011-04-08 04:01:58 <Validus> i even use gimp in windows
 971 2011-04-08 04:02:01 <gjs278> is god tier among im programs
 972 2011-04-08 04:02:02 <luke-jr> Firefox sucks compared to Konqueror
 973 2011-04-08 04:02:05 <gjs278> gimp 2.2 is the best
 974 2011-04-08 04:02:11 wd1t has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 975 2011-04-08 04:02:15 <gjs278> anything above 2.2 has the problem of just selecting and moving
 976 2011-04-08 04:02:17 <luke-jr> gjs278: if all you do is moving stuff and cropping, KolourPaint is the tool for the job
 977 2011-04-08 04:02:32 <gjs278> can it read psds
 978 2011-04-08 04:02:34 <Validus> i like to make my own weird trippy personas for firefox
 979 2011-04-08 04:02:34 <Validus> hehe
 980 2011-04-08 04:02:39 <gjs278> thats the only other part I have to do
 981 2011-04-08 04:02:41 <luke-jr> gjs278: probably, but who uses PSD garbage?
 982 2011-04-08 04:02:44 <gjs278> my work
 983 2011-04-08 04:02:46 <gjs278> for everything
 984 2011-04-08 04:02:49 <gjs278> because of the layers
 985 2011-04-08 04:02:54 <gjs278> upon layers
 986 2011-04-08 04:02:57 <gjs278> of unnamed layers
 987 2011-04-08 04:02:58 <luke-jr> it doesn't support layers, so it will flatten it
 988 2011-04-08 04:03:02 <luke-jr> if you need that, use Krita
 989 2011-04-08 04:03:07 <Validus> most major companies will write off the price of the software. thast why photoshop costs so much
 990 2011-04-08 04:03:25 <luke-jr> I think Krita might even supprot Photoshop plugins
 991 2011-04-08 04:03:30 <luke-jr> not sure if they kept that around tho
 992 2011-04-08 04:03:40 <gjs278> I don't ever use art plugins that's a little beyond my cope
 993 2011-04-08 04:03:42 <gjs278> scope
 994 2011-04-08 04:03:42 <Validus> i love the adobe workaround though. just block 1 addy in hosts and serial
 995 2011-04-08 04:03:44 <Validus> no problems
 996 2011-04-08 04:04:05 <gjs278> I only have two domains blocked for piracy reasons. adobe and id software
 997 2011-04-08 04:04:15 <Validus> adobe is simplest ive ever seen
 998 2011-04-08 04:04:18 <luke-jr> …
 999 2011-04-08 04:04:21 <Validus> but i only have acrobat pro installed atm
1000 2011-04-08 04:04:24 <luke-jr> all my software is legit.
1001 2011-04-08 04:04:25 <luke-jr> :D
1002 2011-04-08 04:04:32 <Validus> im not paying 1500 for adobe
1003 2011-04-08 04:04:35 <Validus> to play around with at home
1004 2011-04-08 04:04:37 <gjs278> no games then I guess
1005 2011-04-08 04:04:42 <gjs278> unless you play tux-racer all day
1006 2011-04-08 04:04:43 <Validus> if you do business, you do not use pirated stuff
1007 2011-04-08 04:04:44 <luke-jr> gjs278: plenty of games
1008 2011-04-08 04:04:51 <gjs278> and that crappy oil rig game
1009 2011-04-08 04:04:56 <Validus> end of story. no ifs ands or buts
1010 2011-04-08 04:05:06 <luke-jr> Armagetron, Globulation2, Freeciv
1011 2011-04-08 04:05:10 <Validus> why should i pay $600 to play around with an app though?
1012 2011-04-08 04:05:19 <Validus> thats like buying 3d studio max for 4K to try it out
1013 2011-04-08 04:05:21 <gjs278> Validus one of the sound files in windows xp was made with a pirated copy of some sony thing
1014 2011-04-08 04:05:24 <gjs278> and got distributed that way
1015 2011-04-08 04:06:17 <Validus> im still stuck on this damn display... i need to find someone with a laptop and take it to a tv store
1016 2011-04-08 04:06:19 <Validus> thatll let me know
1017 2011-04-08 04:11:18 <Kiba> luke-jr: ya like games?
1018 2011-04-08 04:11:35 <Kiba> luke-jr: me working on a game that combine aspect of core-wars with globulation 2
1019 2011-04-08 04:11:56 <Kiba> luke-jr: and me needs all the pledges he can get
1020 2011-04-08 04:12:22 <luke-jr> Kiba: sorry, I have my own game to develop :P
1021 2011-04-08 04:12:23 <Kiba> luke-jr: here's the thread: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5465.0
1022 2011-04-08 04:13:07 <Kiba> :*(
1023 2011-04-08 04:14:03 <Kiba> I have 8 rejections in one day! And one promise!
1024 2011-04-08 04:14:21 <Kiba> must keep going!
1025 2011-04-08 04:14:30 <Kiba> can't have the automata RTS project die
1026 2011-04-08 04:15:05 <gjs278> just make it in your free time thats what I do for everything
1027 2011-04-08 04:17:50 <Kiba> gjs278: I am funding it so that I will be able to make a living out of my love and to provide accelerated development for the project
1028 2011-04-08 04:18:44 <gjs278> come on kdelibs don't fail the compile now
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1030 2011-04-08 04:21:34 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, they always fail
1031 2011-04-08 04:21:41 <phantomcircuit> kdelibs are like a bajillion loc
1032 2011-04-08 04:21:47 <gjs278> yeah
1033 2011-04-08 04:22:00 <gjs278> I hate the kdedeps
1034 2011-04-08 04:22:11 <gjs278> so many deps... so little kde programs on this computer that I can't live without
1035 2011-04-08 04:22:12 <phantomcircuit> lol
1036 2011-04-08 04:22:52 <phantomcircuit> also i forgot suexec in pache
1037 2011-04-08 04:22:53 <gjs278> wow it just tried to emerge nvidia-drivers
1038 2011-04-08 04:22:54 <phantomcircuit> damn it
1039 2011-04-08 04:22:57 <gjs278> fastest ctrl+c ever
1040 2011-04-08 04:23:20 <jgarzik> luke-jr: (re cpuminer)  define "fails"
1041 2011-04-08 04:23:24 <jgarzik> luke-jr: works here
1042 2011-04-08 04:24:00 * Kiba 's desktop environment is barebone
1043 2011-04-08 04:24:27 <luke-jr> jgarzik: nothing but this for hours http://paste.pocoo.org/show/367634/
1044 2011-04-08 04:25:30 <jgarzik> luke-jr: did you read the output you just pasted?  looks correct to me.
1045 2011-04-08 04:25:54 <luke-jr> "false" does?
1046 2011-04-08 04:26:05 <jgarzik> luke-jr: it found H==0, but the internal test shows that it did not meet the 'target'.  It submitted upstream, and indeed, bitcoin returned "false" because the solution did not meet the target.
1047 2011-04-08 04:26:32 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 14000 373
1048 2011-04-08 04:26:33 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 14000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 373, is 1 day, 7 hours, 47 minutes, and 10 seconds
1049 2011-04-08 04:26:41 <luke-jr> jgarzik: why would it submit it at all then?
1050 2011-04-08 04:26:49 <luke-jr> oh wow, testnet is really that difficult⁇?
1051 2011-04-08 04:27:39 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I've found it useful to submit solutions, and view them using the patch found at github/jgarzik/bitcoin#pow-fail
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1053 2011-04-08 04:27:46 <jgarzik> luke-jr: that verifies miner operation independently
1054 2011-04-08 04:27:58 <luke-jr> i c
1055 2011-04-08 04:28:24 <jgarzik> luke-jr: and yes, that really is needed.  on the pool, I see high volume miners submit wholly bogus H != 0 solutions all the time.
1056 2011-04-08 04:28:37 <jgarzik> 1 out of every 100,000 or so
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1079 2011-04-08 05:28:35 <Kiba> EvanR: yo
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1088 2011-04-08 05:40:54 <EvanR> Kiba: yo
1089 2011-04-08 05:41:46 <Kiba> EvanR: did ya see my crowdfunded project?
1090 2011-04-08 05:41:53 <EvanR> no i didnt
1091 2011-04-08 05:41:54 <EvanR> link
1092 2011-04-08 05:43:30 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5465.0
1093 2011-04-08 05:45:10 <EvanR> kiba. i just read the first paragraph of that post. also. im shitfaced. my opinion based on experience: 'when my current game project is finished' is an alpha conversion away from 'never'
1094 2011-04-08 05:45:15 <EvanR> without further evidence
1095 2011-04-08 05:45:34 <EvanR> so the actual project never comes up
1096 2011-04-08 05:45:34 <Kiba> EvanR: I am working on JStet deployment right now
1097 2011-04-08 05:45:47 <EvanR> JStet, is that the tetris or the next project
1098 2011-04-08 05:45:56 <Kiba> JStet is my current project
1099 2011-04-08 05:46:26 <EvanR> oh
1100 2011-04-08 05:47:01 <EvanR> i know what core wars is. and i heard of globulation, but i don tknow what globulation is
1101 2011-04-08 05:49:04 <Kiba> need to keep working and working
1102 2011-04-08 05:49:11 <Kiba> EvanR: if you're wondering how the game work, you can ask
1103 2011-04-08 05:49:16 <Kiba> but I need to work work work work
1104 2011-04-08 05:49:32 <EvanR> yes. my tips on game projects, dont get carried away with 'possible features'
1105 2011-04-08 05:49:44 <EvanR> accomplish the damn todo list on time
1106 2011-04-08 05:49:47 <EvanR> the end
1107 2011-04-08 05:49:57 <Kiba> yes, I should publish a TODO list
1108 2011-04-08 05:50:40 <Kiba> anyway, I am getting distracted
1109 2011-04-08 05:50:59 <EvanR> im a renewably resource, your time is not
1110 2011-04-08 05:51:04 <EvanR> go forth and code
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1119 2011-04-08 06:34:49 <EPiSKiNG> [Tycho] what's up with connection problems?  just wonderin...
1120 2011-04-08 06:35:39 <Stellar> it's already get back....
1121 2011-04-08 06:38:55 <EPiSKiNG> yeah, i know... just wondering how often things like that happen
1122 2011-04-08 06:39:29 * jgarzik needs to add multi-pool support to cpuminer
1123 2011-04-08 06:39:40 <jgarzik> miners should fall back to another server, in case of error
1124 2011-04-08 06:39:44 <jgarzik> no reason to sit idle
1125 2011-04-08 06:39:44 * Kiba is close to finishing his deployment process
1126 2011-04-08 06:41:13 <EPiSKiNG> deepbit wasn't idle, it was having random connection problems
1127 2011-04-08 06:41:24 <EPiSKiNG> it was like having packet loss
1128 2011-04-08 06:41:29 <EPiSKiNG> of like 20% or so
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1130 2011-04-08 06:42:16 <gjs278> yje miners should accept options while they are runnung
1131 2011-04-08 06:42:23 <gjs278> the miners
1132 2011-04-08 06:42:42 <gjs278> like updating frames on the gpu miner
1133 2011-04-08 06:42:54 <gjs278> when my screensaver kicks in, it should immediately -f 1 the program
1134 2011-04-08 06:43:00 <gjs278> and when I come back, go back to whatever I set
1135 2011-04-08 06:43:19 <gjs278> I should be able to script that and just feed it a call to do what I want
1136 2011-04-08 06:43:24 <gjs278> without having to stop start
1137 2011-04-08 06:47:04 <MagicalTux> [15:37:02] * jgarzik needs to add multi-pool support to cpuminer <- are pools protected from someone running a miner and sending his hashes to all the pools ?
1138 2011-04-08 06:47:43 <Kiba> MagicalTux: ya heard about my crowdfunded project?
1139 2011-04-08 06:47:59 <MagicalTux> Kiba, from your signature
1140 2011-04-08 06:48:10 <Kiba> MagicalTux: what do ya think?
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1143 2011-04-08 06:50:00 <MagicalTux> Kiba, nothing at this point, since I know nothing of globulation or core wars
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1146 2011-04-08 06:51:36 <MagicalTux> (and haven't got time yet to look into this, been way more busy than I initially expected)
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1151 2011-04-08 07:09:18 * idnar ponders writing an RPC -> Atom adapter
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1153 2011-04-08 07:17:26 <[Tycho]> MagicalTux, those hashes will be compatible with only one pool.
1154 2011-04-08 07:17:38 <gjs278> I just tried :p
1155 2011-04-08 07:17:42 <MagicalTux> ah
1156 2011-04-08 07:17:43 <gjs278> it doesn't work
1157 2011-04-08 07:17:47 <MagicalTux> yep, forgot about that :p
1158 2011-04-08 07:17:56 <gjs278> I thought you were onto something magical though
1159 2011-04-08 07:18:11 <MagicalTux> been too busy doing other stuff
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1161 2011-04-08 07:25:37 <da2ce7> genjix, just watched your presentation :) good work!
1162 2011-04-08 07:26:16 gjs278 has joined
1163 2011-04-08 07:27:25 <da2ce7> http://vimeo.com/22072121
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1170 2011-04-08 07:35:11 * MagicalTux downloads da2ce7's link
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1184 2011-04-08 08:09:28 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: a hash is unique to a single pool
1185 2011-04-08 08:09:42 <gjs278> on poclbm, how can I reset the frame value while the program is running
1186 2011-04-08 08:09:47 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: a different pool would not have the same coinbase or merkle tree
1187 2011-04-08 08:09:53 <gjs278> I've tried to set frame = 1 on certain conditions everywhere and cant see it change anything
1188 2011-04-08 08:10:25 <MagicalTux> jgarzik, yep, I'm tired
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1190 2011-04-08 08:12:06 <Kiba> haha
1191 2011-04-08 08:12:16 <Kiba> I enjoy people playing with my game
1192 2011-04-08 08:12:30 <Kiba> and seeing network messages flowing
1193 2011-04-08 08:12:36 * Kiba does a little dance
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1197 2011-04-08 08:23:00 <d__> ;;bc,calc 260000
1198 2011-04-08 08:23:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 260000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 2 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 51 minutes, and 42 seconds
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1212 2011-04-08 09:11:58 <genjix> thanks da2ce7
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1214 2011-04-08 09:13:20 <Kiba> genjix: did ya take a look at my crowdfunded project?
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1218 2011-04-08 09:27:12 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * rbe77533491aa intersango/scr/ (match_statements.sql unit.sh): unit test shows bank statements output. http://tinyurl.com/3h94gc5
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1226 2011-04-08 10:03:22 <slush> gjs278: Payout history is not in json api  yet, I'll add payout history and worker stats in next release
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1261 2011-04-08 12:47:14 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Thomas Grainger * r18fa3adccc2a intersango/deposit.php: changed wording of Deposit message http://tinyurl.com/3tx9aye
1262 2011-04-08 12:47:17 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r2cf32ed5b393 intersango/deposit.php: Merge commit 'refs/merge-requests/1' of git://gitorious.org/intersango/master into merge-requests/1 http://tinyurl.com/3boszgu
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1267 2011-04-08 13:08:33 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1268 2011-04-08 13:08:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 117328 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 1615 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 21 hours, 5 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 85133.53604630
1269 2011-04-08 13:13:49 <stitekili> q: what isn't the mining code in the standard client improved to take advantage of GPU's, SSE extentions etc?
1270 2011-04-08 13:14:49 <sipa> the standard client only supports CPU mining, GPU mining is mess, very hard, and very different on separate platforms
1271 2011-04-08 13:15:14 <sipa> it does have SSE optimizations, but there are better implementations in existance than those in the default client
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1277 2011-04-08 13:49:29 <luke-jr> sipa: SSE extensions are being removed
1278 2011-04-08 13:49:45 <sipa> there's a pull for that, yes
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1281 2011-04-08 14:01:07 <Speeder> someone know where I get a cheap server to host a exchange?
1282 2011-04-08 14:01:46 <Speeder> and what sort of stuff I need
1283 2011-04-08 14:05:40 dermoth has quit (home!~thomas@169-79.162.dsl.aei.ca|Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1284 2011-04-08 14:05:43 <luke-jr> why on earth would you want exchange?
1285 2011-04-08 14:08:23 <JFK911> tired of webmail\
1286 2011-04-08 14:09:56 <grbgout> Is it just me, or is slush's logout button not doing anything?
1287 2011-04-08 14:11:03 cheeseman has joined
1288 2011-04-08 14:11:10 <slush> grbgout: it's just you
1289 2011-04-08 14:11:10 <slush> :)
1290 2011-04-08 14:11:15 <grbgout> slush: hi :)
1291 2011-04-08 14:11:30 <grbgout> slush: may I describe my experience?
1292 2011-04-08 14:11:39 <slush> it should redirect you to homepage & my account should want new login
1293 2011-04-08 14:12:26 <grbgout> slush: I agree, but it's not ^_^.  It redirects me to homepage, but my account shows all my data --- I noticed this when I first signed up, but figured it was just a refresh issue, which in the past it was.  Now, however, even hitting refresh doesn't change the account page to a login request.
1294 2011-04-08 14:13:20 <Speeder> I am talking about money exchange O.O
1295 2011-04-08 14:13:20 <slush> weird. which browser?
1296 2011-04-08 14:13:23 <Speeder> not MS exchange
1297 2011-04-08 14:13:24 <grbgout> opera
1298 2011-04-08 14:13:44 * slush installing opera
1299 2011-04-08 14:14:23 <grbgout> slush: it used to behave as it should, pending a refresh when going back to the "my account", but now it's actually updating the page data.  I.e. I left my account page open all night, sat down today, clicked logout, went back to my account (old info), refreshed, and the data updated with new info.
1300 2011-04-08 14:14:26 <[Tycho]> Speeder, try buying VPS with bitcoins :)
1301 2011-04-08 14:15:01 <grbgout> slush: Opera version 11.01, build 1190, platform Linux, system x86_64, 2.6.34-gentoo-r12
1302 2011-04-08 14:15:37 <Speeder> What is a VVPS?
1303 2011-04-08 14:15:38 <Speeder> VPS?
1304 2011-04-08 14:15:47 * Speeder is feeling dumb today.
1305 2011-04-08 14:15:49 <[Tycho]> virtual server
1306 2011-04-08 14:15:54 <Speeder> Oh
1307 2011-04-08 14:15:55 <Speeder> those.
1308 2011-04-08 14:15:59 <Speeder> I wonder if any of them are cheap
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1310 2011-04-08 14:16:05 <[Tycho]> Yes, they are.
1311 2011-04-08 14:16:13 <slush> grbgout: any extension which can do automatic login or whatever?
1312 2011-04-08 14:16:24 <grbgout> slush: nope, don't use auto login.
1313 2011-04-08 14:16:29 <grbgout> Disable it entirely, actually.
1314 2011-04-08 14:16:56 cheeseman has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1315 2011-04-08 14:17:00 <Speeder> also I wonder what kind of software I will need... hummm..
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1317 2011-04-08 14:20:02 <slush> grbgout: hmm, opera 11.01, ubuntu, logout works for me
1318 2011-04-08 14:20:10 <grbgout> slush: strange.
1319 2011-04-08 14:20:15 <grbgout> do you have to refresh?
1320 2011-04-08 14:20:23 <slush> grbgout: actually the logout should be absolutely browser-independent
1321 2011-04-08 14:20:55 <grbgout> indeed
1322 2011-04-08 14:21:01 <slush> grbgout: you can repeat the bug every time?
1323 2011-04-08 14:21:03 <grbgout> You don't have ot refresh, or anything, do you?
1324 2011-04-08 14:21:15 <slush> no refresh needed, everything works as expected for me
1325 2011-04-08 14:21:18 <grbgout> slush: yup, so far.  I haven't cleared my cache, though, which is probably the issue, albeit a strange one.
1326 2011-04-08 14:21:30 <grbgout> I'll try deleting the cookies, and see what opera does.
1327 2011-04-08 14:21:49 <grbgout> Opera has been crashing when I clear my browser cache/history lately, so I've been avoiding it =D
1328 2011-04-08 14:21:55 <slush> :-D
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1330 2011-04-08 14:23:51 <slush> grbgout: don't know how to help, everything works for me :(
1331 2011-04-08 14:24:18 <grbgout> slush: no problem, I'll poke around and see what I can figure out.  It's really not too big a deal, I barely ever have anyone at my machine other than myself.
1332 2011-04-08 14:24:53 <grbgout> slush: I deleted the site cookies, and refresh on the my account page brought me back to the login.
1333 2011-04-08 14:25:08 <grbgout> fyi, right click on a site page, edit site preferences, cookies tab.
1334 2011-04-08 14:25:43 <grbgout> This is the behavior I experienced in the past, I'll see if it reverts to the odd no-logout.
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1338 2011-04-08 14:27:08 <luke-jr> Speeder: I have VPS for bitcoins
1339 2011-04-08 14:27:19 <luke-jr> Speeder: http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/?page=vps&currency=BTC
1340 2011-04-08 14:27:20 <grbgout> yup, reverted to odd behavior now that I've logged back in.  Oh well.
1341 2011-04-08 14:27:43 <slush> grbgout: what did you do?
1342 2011-04-08 14:28:09 <luke-jr> Speeder: just 14 BTC/mo (plus 2 BTC/mo if you need IPv4 access)
1343 2011-04-08 14:28:22 <Speeder> Oo
1344 2011-04-08 14:28:29 <grbgout> slush: in which instance?
1345 2011-04-08 14:28:29 <Speeder> why you charge for IPv4 ?
1346 2011-04-08 14:29:02 <slush> luke-jr will I get better price for VPS when everything will be calculated in tonal inside? ;)
1347 2011-04-08 14:29:10 <grbgout> slush: I filled in my account details, logged in, refreshed, clicked logout, clicked my account, refreshed, and it still showed my data.
1348 2011-04-08 14:29:29 <luke-jr> slush: probably depends on the exact VPS. for every currency, I round.
1349 2011-04-08 14:29:38 <luke-jr> Speeder: because IPv4 is obsolete and expensive?
1350 2011-04-08 14:29:54 <luke-jr> Speeder: so I can give cheaper prices to people who don't need it
1351 2011-04-08 14:29:56 <grbgout> slush: hmm, should I be seeing ?next=/accounts/profile/ in the address?
1352 2011-04-08 14:30:28 <Speeder> what is armagetron control panel?
1353 2011-04-08 14:30:28 <slush> grbgout: on which link?
1354 2011-04-08 14:30:47 <luke-jr> Speeder: https://lightfoot-ct.dashjr.org/aa-admin/
1355 2011-04-08 14:30:53 <grbgout> slush: my accounts, this is after I cleare the site cookies, which brings me back to the login page.
1356 2011-04-08 14:30:55 <luke-jr> u/p: demo/demo
1357 2011-04-08 14:30:57 <grbgout> *clear >_>
1358 2011-04-08 14:31:36 <slush> grbgout: yes, thats correct
1359 2011-04-08 14:31:47 <Speeder> hehehe
1360 2011-04-08 14:31:47 <slush> grbgout: it means 'perform login and then go to profile page'
1361 2011-04-08 14:31:48 <Speeder> wesome
1362 2011-04-08 14:31:55 <grbgout> slush: on an unrelated matter, does your pool's forum thread have any discussion about tweaking poclbm for optimal performance with your pool?
1363 2011-04-08 14:31:56 <Speeder> but who pays to host armagetron???
1364 2011-04-08 14:32:01 <grbgout> slush: yes, obviously ;)
1365 2011-04-08 14:32:04 <Speeder> it does not sound like something profitable
1366 2011-04-08 14:32:09 <luke-jr> Speeder: people who want quality servers
1367 2011-04-08 14:32:11 <grbgout> slush: this is -dev ;)
1368 2011-04-08 14:32:17 <Speeder> interesting
1369 2011-04-08 14:32:19 <luke-jr> Speeder: ping is VERY important in Armagetron
1370 2011-04-08 14:32:24 <Speeder> I play armagetron, but at home
1371 2011-04-08 14:32:26 <slush> grbgout: I don't need any special poclbm settings. Default settings (mainly askrate) is quite fine
1372 2011-04-08 14:32:31 <Speeder> with my cousins
1373 2011-04-08 14:32:38 <luke-jr> well, can't beat LAN, haha
1374 2011-04-08 14:32:42 <slush> grbgout: not every user on -dev channel is a developer ;)
1375 2011-04-08 14:32:45 <Speeder> (there are no armagetron servers in my country)
1376 2011-04-08 14:32:48 <grbgout> slush: fair enough ;P
1377 2011-04-08 14:32:51 <luke-jr> Speeder: where is that?
1378 2011-04-08 14:32:57 <Speeder> Brazil
1379 2011-04-08 14:33:01 <luke-jr> i c
1380 2011-04-08 14:33:07 <grbgout> although, even a laymen should be able to tell what that URL means....
1381 2011-04-08 14:33:11 <Speeder> kinda ridicously far from US, EUR and JP
1382 2011-04-08 14:33:19 <Speeder> The only game that is playable here online is some valve games
1383 2011-04-08 14:33:22 <luke-jr> Speeder: maybe if there's interest there I should offer it
1384 2011-04-08 14:33:25 <Speeder> or ones where ping is not important
1385 2011-04-08 14:33:42 <Speeder> Team Fortress 2 is particularly popular.
1386 2011-04-08 14:33:51 <slush> grbgout: can you try another browser, for example firefox?
1387 2011-04-08 14:34:05 <slush> grbgout: do you have direct connection or do you use some proxy?
1388 2011-04-08 14:34:16 <Speeder> luke-jr: how you would offer hosting here?
1389 2011-04-08 14:34:23 <Speeder> here hosting is fucking expensive...
1390 2011-04-08 14:34:24 <jaromil> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/1-billion-computing-core-hours-for.html
1391 2011-04-08 14:34:27 <jaromil> lol
1392 2011-04-08 14:34:32 <Speeder> (mostly, upload band is expensive)
1393 2011-04-08 14:34:34 <slush> grbgout: what's the link of 'logout' ?
1394 2011-04-08 14:34:42 <jaromil> that's how a silicon valley researcher pwned bitcoin....
1395 2011-04-08 14:34:44 <luke-jr> Speeder: how much expensive?
1396 2011-04-08 14:35:12 <Speeder> when I tried to make a game server, they wanted 200 USD for 256kbps of guaranteed upload.
1397 2011-04-08 14:35:28 <grbgout> slush: direct connection, no proxies.  Let me check logout button, I don't recall.  Firefox... not atm, but maybe this weekend. 1 sec
1398 2011-04-08 14:36:04 <grbgout> slush: I'm pretty sure it's an issue with Opera not clearing its cookies properly due to special circumstances (of which I'm not aware).
1399 2011-04-08 14:36:05 <slush> grbgout: well, after pressing logout and clicking 'back' button, I can go back to profile page. But it is just browser cache, every next action on profile leads to login page
1400 2011-04-08 14:36:18 <[Tycho]> Oh, additional charge for IPv4 ? LOL :))))
1401 2011-04-08 14:36:31 <grbgout> slush: right, that's how it used to behave for me as well.  I'm not exactly sure when this behavior began.
1402 2011-04-08 14:36:31 <slush> grbgout: opera does not need to delete cookies; I delete session on server side
1403 2011-04-08 14:37:17 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: consider it more that you aren't forced to pay for it
1404 2011-04-08 14:37:19 <grbgout> slush: well, I see in opera's Cookies tab a "sessionid"... maybe something funky is going on when opera isn't clearing it.  oh well, one sec logout button says:
1405 2011-04-08 14:37:31 <grbgout> minin.bitcoin.cz/accounts/logout/
1406 2011-04-08 14:37:37 <grbgout> *mining
1407 2011-04-08 14:37:38 <slush> that's OK
1408 2011-04-08 14:38:05 <slush> I'm pretty sure it is caching issue
1409 2011-04-08 14:38:24 <grbgout> Yes, most likely.
1410 2011-04-08 14:38:40 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, but it will be useless for hosting without IPv4.
1411 2011-04-08 14:38:45 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: nonsense
1412 2011-04-08 14:39:03 <luke-jr> maybe if you want to hit the American public market
1413 2011-04-08 14:39:05 <grbgout> If I delete the sessionid entry in the site preferences cookie tab (after clicking logout), the site behaves as expected: my account no longer functions after hitting refresh.
1414 2011-04-08 14:39:19 <luke-jr> because the US is so backward
1415 2011-04-08 14:39:50 <[Tycho]> I'm not in the US, so i don't know about this.
1416 2011-04-08 14:39:50 <slush> grbgout: do you see actual profile information after refresh on logged out profile?
1417 2011-04-08 14:40:35 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: so you're from another backward country that still uses IPv4?
1418 2011-04-08 14:40:37 <slush> grbgout: if you're mining, 'last share at' and 'estimated reward' should be chaning every time (well, reward calculation is cached for 30 seconds)
1419 2011-04-08 14:40:46 <[Tycho]> Everyone uses IPv4.
1420 2011-04-08 14:41:23 <slush> grbgout: if you don't see new data, it is just caching and without security impact. If you see changes, then there is something weird
1421 2011-04-08 14:41:33 <slush> ..on my side
1422 2011-04-08 14:42:17 <Speeder> here everyone use IPv4 too
1423 2011-04-08 14:42:22 <Speeder> where are you from luke-jr ?
1424 2011-04-08 14:42:39 <sipa> luke-jr: you should formulate it as "16 BTC per month, with a reduction of 2 BTC/month if IPv6-only is enough"
1425 2011-04-08 14:43:04 <slush> Speeder: I think luke-jr is from some parallel dimension where people use tonal and ipv6 every day :)
1426 2011-04-08 14:43:22 <ArtForz> I use ipv6 nearly every day
1427 2011-04-08 14:43:25 <sipa> i wonder how they write ipv6 addresses there :p
1428 2011-04-08 14:43:55 <ArtForz> xsnews free ipv6 news server = win
1429 2011-04-08 14:44:04 <sipa> i've also had an ipv6 address for some years now
1430 2011-04-08 14:44:16 <slush> ArtForz: well, I'd like to be in that parallel dimension too (except tonal), but major providers in czech still don't support ipv6 :(
1431 2011-04-08 14:44:29 <sipa> tunnel!
1432 2011-04-08 14:44:31 <grbgout> slush: like I said earlier, when refreshing on a logged out and refreshed my account, the data updates with new info.
1433 2011-04-08 14:44:43 <slush> grbgout: hmm
1434 2011-04-08 14:44:59 <grbgout> slush: as I said before, I left the my account page open when I went to sleep.  Woke up, clicked logout, clicked my account, hit refresh, and the data updated.
1435 2011-04-08 14:45:01 <slush> grbgout: ok, I'll double-check server code later...
1436 2011-04-08 14:45:05 <ArtForz> free, > 300 day retention on binaries, easily maxing out a 16Mbit line, did I mention it's free?
1437 2011-04-08 14:45:12 * sipa has even done a succesfull ping to his home computer using IPv6-over-facebook
1438 2011-04-08 14:45:20 <grbgout> slush: no rush, the work around works --- besides, I just completely broke my miner, so....
1439 2011-04-08 14:45:48 <luke-jr> slush: what's your ping time to 192.88.99.1?
1440 2011-04-08 14:46:02 <luke-jr> sipa: wtf? IPv6-over-facebook?
1441 2011-04-08 14:46:18 <slush> luke-jr from what place? pool server or my home?
1442 2011-04-08 14:46:29 <sipa> luke-jr: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5514
1443 2011-04-08 14:46:37 d__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1444 2011-04-08 14:46:46 <edcba> ipv6 over facebook ?
1445 2011-04-08 14:46:47 <luke-jr> slush: either
1446 2011-04-08 14:46:49 <luke-jr> slush: or both
1447 2011-04-08 14:46:49 <sipa> with actual implementation on http://apps.facebook.com/ipoverfb/
1448 2011-04-08 14:46:56 <slush> luke-jr between 566ms and 1ms :)
1449 2011-04-08 14:46:59 <edcba> or facebook over ipv6 ?
1450 2011-04-08 14:47:12 <luke-jr> slush: wtf? 1ms to 192.88.99.1?
1451 2011-04-08 14:47:12 <sipa> edcba: ipv6 over facebook over ipv4
1452 2011-04-08 14:47:12 <edcba> oh i didn't know that rfc
1453 2011-04-08 14:47:18 <slush> luke-jr yes
1454 2011-04-08 14:47:19 * edcba reads :)
1455 2011-04-08 14:47:27 <sipa> edcba: you simulate a router with connections to your facebook-friends who also have that application
1456 2011-04-08 14:47:34 <sipa> and some nodes have an uplink
1457 2011-04-08 14:47:54 <luke-jr> slush: I highly doubt that 1ms node lacks IPv6 connectivity
1458 2011-04-08 14:48:01 <sipa> when it was popular you could do a traceroute to someone in a day or something :)
1459 2011-04-08 14:48:16 <luke-jr> slush: direct native IPv6 even
1460 2011-04-08 14:48:22 <slush> luke-jr http://pastebin.com/QR1BEJjn
1461 2011-04-08 14:48:29 * edcba wants more female connectivity
1462 2011-04-08 14:48:43 <luke-jr> slush: traceroute
1463 2011-04-08 14:49:16 <slush> luke-jr oh, looks like it goes only on local network :))
1464 2011-04-08 14:49:29 <luke-jr> slush: so why do you say it has no IPv6?
1465 2011-04-08 14:49:47 <slush> because it has no ipv6
1466 2011-04-08 14:49:50 <luke-jr> …
1467 2011-04-08 14:49:56 <luke-jr> modprobe ipv6?
1468 2011-04-08 14:50:20 <slush> I _know_ that I have no ipv6 support here
1469 2011-04-08 14:50:36 <luke-jr> slush: if there's an IPv6 router on your local network, how can you NOT?
1470 2011-04-08 14:50:46 <slush> wait a moment
1471 2011-04-08 14:51:52 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1472 2011-04-08 14:52:11 <sipa> it's always possible that the ipv4 connection you see is encapsulated over ipv6 further on, without you knowing
1473 2011-04-08 14:52:14 <sipa> no?
1474 2011-04-08 14:52:28 <luke-jr> sipa: ?
1475 2011-04-08 14:52:50 <edcba> my isp do the reverse
1476 2011-04-08 14:52:56 <edcba> ipv6 over ipv4...
1477 2011-04-08 14:53:06 <sipa> that's tunneling
1478 2011-04-08 14:53:07 <grbgout> edcba: lol, way to defeat the purpose.
1479 2011-04-08 14:53:12 <slush> luke-jr http://pastebin.com/QjJSv2pG
1480 2011-04-08 14:53:16 <edcba> only internally
1481 2011-04-08 14:53:22 <luke-jr> grbgout: actually, it doesn't
1482 2011-04-08 14:53:22 <edcba> so i still have ipv6
1483 2011-04-08 14:53:26 <grbgout> luke-jr: no?
1484 2011-04-08 14:53:34 <luke-jr> grbgout: no
1485 2011-04-08 14:53:35 JunK-Y has quit (Changing host)
1486 2011-04-08 14:53:35 JunK-Y has joined
1487 2011-04-08 14:53:36 <slush> first is traceroute from my current connection, second is from pool server; pool server ping is even under 1ms
1488 2011-04-08 14:53:39 <grbgout> luke-jr: not going to elaborate?
1489 2011-04-08 14:53:46 <luke-jr> grbgout: what harm is an extra header on the ISP's own network?
1490 2011-04-08 14:53:59 <slush> luke-jr well, I don't have an idea how it is possible :)
1491 2011-04-08 14:54:05 * grbgout shrugs
1492 2011-04-08 14:54:33 <luke-jr> slush: curious
1493 2011-04-08 14:54:44 <slush> luke-jr btw, what's that IP? :)
1494 2011-04-08 14:54:58 <luke-jr> slush: IPv4 anycast for nearest IPv6 router
1495 2011-04-08 14:55:51 <luke-jr> slush: you could actually wrap IPv6 traffic in IPv4 headers and send to it, and it will unwrap and send it on
1496 2011-04-08 14:56:10 <luke-jr> bypassing the old IPv4-only routers in between
1497 2011-04-08 14:56:15 <slush> luke-jr oh, that explain a lot. I'm sitting on optical line here
1498 2011-04-08 14:56:51 <slush> and the destination is physically few kilometers far from me
1499 2011-04-08 14:56:57 <luke-jr> lol
1500 2011-04-08 14:57:21 <luke-jr> slush: so coin1 has 1ms?
1501 2011-04-08 14:57:30 <slush> luke-jr around 0.8ms
1502 2011-04-08 14:57:43 <slush> that's similar, linode is very well connected
1503 2011-04-08 14:58:04 <slush> I though before that it is some specific server
1504 2011-04-08 14:58:04 <sipa> i can also ping 192.188.99.1 from my vps around 0.8ms most of the time (though up to 7ms occasionaly)
1505 2011-04-08 14:58:28 <luke-jr> oh, these are VPS?
1506 2011-04-08 14:58:42 <slush> luke-jr coin1 is vps, my local computer isn't vps :)
1507 2011-04-08 14:58:46 <luke-jr> so no control of network stack
1508 2011-04-08 14:58:54 <luke-jr> or is it Xen?
1509 2011-04-08 14:59:01 <sipa> yes, xen
1510 2011-04-08 14:59:08 <slush> luke-jr xen, too
1511 2011-04-08 14:59:10 <luke-jr> i c
1512 2011-04-08 14:59:15 <luke-jr> 212.111.33.229 is your VPS IP?
1513 2011-04-08 14:59:35 <sipa> hmm, form my laptop here i can't ping you at all
1514 2011-04-08 14:59:49 <sipa> right, they block ping here
1515 2011-04-08 15:00:40 <luke-jr> sipa: what's your IP?
1516 2011-04-08 15:01:07 <sipa> my vps is at 178.18.90.41
1517 2011-04-08 15:01:51 <luke-jr> sipa: tcpdump icmp6
1518 2011-04-08 15:05:26 <luke-jr> …
1519 2011-04-08 15:05:36 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1520 2011-04-08 15:06:18 devrandom has joined
1521 2011-04-08 15:06:33 <sipa> ... i can't ping you anymore
1522 2011-04-08 15:07:11 <luke-jr> ping me?
1523 2011-04-08 15:07:48 <sipa> i can't ping 192.188.99.1 anymore
1524 2011-04-08 15:07:57 <luke-jr> O.o
1525 2011-04-08 15:08:07 <luke-jr> didn't you just say your VPS thing blocks pings?
1526 2011-04-08 15:08:30 <sipa> no, the university where my laptop is blocks pings
1527 2011-04-08 15:09:13 <luke-jr> sipa: tcpdump host 192.88.99.1 ?
1528 2011-04-08 15:10:05 <sipa> nothing
1529 2011-04-08 15:10:39 <luke-jr> then you're not pinging it <.<
1530 2011-04-08 15:11:34 <sipa> must be
1531 2011-04-08 15:12:03 Zenith77 has joined
1532 2011-04-08 15:13:07 <luke-jr> sipa: tcpdump proto 41
1533 2011-04-08 15:14:34 mccheese has joined
1534 2011-04-08 15:15:11 mccheese has left ("Leaving")
1535 2011-04-08 15:17:25 PLATO is now known as GlennBeck
1536 2011-04-08 15:19:41 GlennBeck is now known as Spartacus
1537 2011-04-08 15:25:29 <Diablo-D3> http://www.cracked.com/article_19142_5-soviet-space-programs-that-prove-russia-was-insane.html
1538 2011-04-08 15:26:25 <genjix> da2ce7: was it you who paid for the bitcoin.cz.cc VPS?
1539 2011-04-08 15:31:05 adlsaks has joined
1540 2011-04-08 15:33:59 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1541 2011-04-08 15:34:35 <Kiba> hmm
1542 2011-04-08 15:34:43 <Kiba> crowdfunding effort doesn't goes as I like
1543 2011-04-08 15:34:45 stitekili has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1544 2011-04-08 15:34:52 <Kiba> only 150 BTC of my 1200 BTC goal
1545 2011-04-08 15:35:26 <luke-jr> that's about what I saw when I tried it
1546 2011-04-08 15:35:54 <nanotube> Kiba: give it somee time. also, once you have your earlier effort live and showcase-able, might get more interest.
1547 2011-04-08 15:36:31 taco_the_paco has joined
1548 2011-04-08 15:36:32 taco_the_paco has quit (Changing host)
1549 2011-04-08 15:36:32 taco_the_paco has joined
1550 2011-04-08 15:36:56 <luke-jr> I got $315 of pledges toward $3000
1551 2011-04-08 15:39:12 <UukGoblin> what's "YAD"?
1552 2011-04-08 15:39:17 <UukGoblin> google thinks it's a canadian dollar
1553 2011-04-08 15:39:39 <Kiba> nanotube: well, I got a game that's showcasable now
1554 2011-04-08 15:40:33 m00p has joined
1555 2011-04-08 15:40:50 <UukGoblin> Kiba, what 'crowd'? ;-] bitcoin users are still not that big of a crowd yet
1556 2011-04-08 15:40:54 zooko has joined
1557 2011-04-08 15:42:23 khal has joined
1558 2011-04-08 15:42:39 <Kiba> UukGoblin: will you pledge some bitcoin?
1559 2011-04-08 15:42:42 <luke-jr> "Yandex subsidiary Yandex.Money is an e-commerce payment system, the second most popular in Russia."
1560 2011-04-08 15:43:50 <UukGoblin> Kiba, nope
1561 2011-04-08 15:44:13 <Kiba> why?
1562 2011-04-08 15:44:27 <UukGoblin> cause I don't need yet another game like that
1563 2011-04-08 15:44:38 <UukGoblin> a p2p mmorpg, that'd be something...
1564 2011-04-08 15:44:45 <Kiba> can you spare 5 BTC?
1565 2011-04-08 15:45:15 ducki2p has joined
1566 2011-04-08 15:45:18 <UukGoblin> not anymore
1567 2011-04-08 15:45:27 <UukGoblin> already donated to faucet and bitcoincharts yesterday
1568 2011-04-08 15:45:34 * Kiba 's first rejection of the data is UukGoblin 
1569 2011-04-08 15:45:49 <UukGoblin> which is exceedingly much considering how greedy I am
1570 2011-04-08 15:46:02 * luke-jr ponders if anyone would use it, if he extended BitGit to support push-repositories (instead of just mirrors) and a Bugzilla or similar
1571 2011-04-08 15:47:03 <krytzz> didnt even know about till now
1572 2011-04-08 15:48:01 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1573 2011-04-08 15:49:33 Lachesis has joined
1574 2011-04-08 15:51:39 phantomcircuit has joined
1575 2011-04-08 15:54:53 <phantomcircuit> nick Dr_Nick
1576 2011-04-08 15:54:55 phantomcircuit is now known as Dr_Nick
1577 2011-04-08 15:55:01 <Dr_Nick> HELLO EVERYBADY
1578 2011-04-08 15:55:24 <Kiba> hello Dr Nick
1579 2011-04-08 15:55:35 <Dr_Nick> HOW ARE WE TODAY EVERYBADY
1580 2011-04-08 15:55:57 <knotwork> UukGoblin, re MORPG, how p2p? you mean like every chance to hit is recorded in blockchain or what?
1581 2011-04-08 15:55:59 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1582 2011-04-08 15:56:32 <krytzz> oh there are some android clients already
1583 2011-04-08 15:56:36 Dr_Nick is now known as phantomcircuit
1584 2011-04-08 15:57:01 <knotwork> UukGoblin I am starting by merely trying to get economics down so you'd know, via blockchains, how much loot any given instance / server has
1585 2011-04-08 15:57:04 <UukGoblin> knotwork, nah, more like aggregated events of hits, trades, and stuff would get released to something like freenet or tahoe-lafs, and sha of them /might/ be put in the blockchain
1586 2011-04-08 15:57:38 <knotwork> then maybe can also do hitpoints same way, each IP address you know can have max of this hit points of monsters etc
1587 2011-04-08 15:57:48 <UukGoblin> knotwork, I'd basically like to create a virtual world (like second life? eve online? wow?) that would not be centralized, and used bitcoins as in-game currency
1588 2011-04-08 15:58:08 sabalaba has joined
1589 2011-04-08 15:58:12 <UukGoblin> some clients would be more server-like and connect to more peers and serve the gameworld
1590 2011-04-08 15:58:16 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: I wouldn't mind doing that… :p
1591 2011-04-08 15:58:23 <knotwork> I consider the 3d virtuality/movie-like-rendering a client-side problem
1592 2011-04-08 15:58:51 <knotwork> so I am using Freeciv for strategic scale economy of worlds, and crossfire 2d RPG for walrking around,
1593 2011-04-08 15:59:12 * Kiba would like to make progress on his game today
1594 2011-04-08 15:59:17 <knotwork> and leave it to new clients to make movies of the action in their GPU if they want, not my problem, as server
1595 2011-04-08 15:59:23 <Kiba> err...crowdfunding
1596 2011-04-08 15:59:36 <knotwork> I just need to know what does what to what, not what each species eyes would choose to render that as
1597 2011-04-08 16:00:02 <UukGoblin> I don't have the details spec'ed out in my head unfortunately, I'm not even sure if it's possible
1598 2011-04-08 16:00:07 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: I actually have some experience in that stuff
1599 2011-04-08 16:00:17 <knotwork> however, there are a couple of free open source 3d virtual world systems that actually work, main problem with them
1600 2011-04-08 16:00:19 <luke-jr> minus the 3D rendering stuff
1601 2011-04-08 16:00:42 <knotwork> tends to be they dont release their actual models/graphics as open, they hold them back as proprietary
1602 2011-04-08 16:01:19 prax has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1603 2011-04-08 16:01:20 <knotwork> crystal space I think it is, or phase space based on crystal engine or something, has nicer rendering than second life
1604 2011-04-08 16:01:29 <UukGoblin> there was opensim...
1605 2011-04-08 16:01:30 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: but I might "hold back" such a concept, because I would insist on it being full user-extensible
1606 2011-04-08 16:01:36 modules has left ()
1607 2011-04-08 16:01:44 <UukGoblin> well there are some problems, e.g. random number generation
1608 2011-04-08 16:01:44 <knotwork> but they dont give you that, just the engine. so you'd have to make models of everything yourself.
1609 2011-04-08 16:01:49 <zooko> I'm listening to the bitcoin episode on econtalk.
1610 2011-04-08 16:01:56 <UukGoblin> implementing p2p poker is not trivial and at least pretty computationally-heavy
1611 2011-04-08 16:02:02 <zooko> Amazing that so many people requested for econtalk to cover bitcoin.
1612 2011-04-08 16:02:31 <knotwork> opensim is cool idea but in practice if you arent in control of all the servers how do you stop someone making up billions
1613 2011-04-08 16:02:38 <Kiba> bitcoin is a project that sell itself
1614 2011-04-08 16:02:46 <knotwork> of monsters out of thin air to invade all the other servers with?
1615 2011-04-08 16:02:47 <Kiba> but apperantly Automata RTS doesn't sell itself automatically
1616 2011-04-08 16:03:11 <knotwork> that is why I am looking at things like Freeciv to give a common economics of what a planet can produce in a period of time
1617 2011-04-08 16:03:20 <knotwork> given a certain technology level
1618 2011-04-08 16:04:00 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: I would do a priv/pub key system for it
1619 2011-04-08 16:04:25 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, how exactly?
1620 2011-04-08 16:04:31 <knotwork> maybe we can total up effective power of monsters and have servers do mining, earning 50 hitpoints of monster instead of 50 bitcoins
1621 2011-04-08 16:04:55 adlsaks has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1622 2011-04-08 16:04:58 <UukGoblin> the only thing I can think of working would be some trust-based kind of thing
1623 2011-04-08 16:05:30 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: objects can only be modified by the owner, who signs all change requests
1624 2011-04-08 16:05:34 <UukGoblin> knotwork, pointless, in that case you could just make a monster cost 1 BTC ;-P
1625 2011-04-08 16:05:38 <knotwork> well Battle for Wesnoth can totally replay all its battles blow by blow, so maybe hashing that or something
1626 2011-04-08 16:05:46 <knotwork> you could establish a history chain
1627 2011-04-08 16:06:33 <knotwork> like someone has archive of the battle, here is itrs signed hash, pay to download it all if you really want to check the hash of it
1628 2011-04-08 16:06:40 <zooko> Yeah, it isn't too hard to make everything deterministically pseudo-random, and then afterward everyone can check that it played out correctly.
1629 2011-04-08 16:07:08 <knotwork> freeciv you can set seed and run whole of history if all that is playing is AIs
1630 2011-04-08 16:07:18 <Kiba> people love their pipe dreams
1631 2011-04-08 16:07:39 <knotwork> you need more seeds and it gets complex though if human can go back to savegame and try something different
1632 2011-04-08 16:08:07 * Kiba is trying to get his humble game project off the ground
1633 2011-04-08 16:08:23 <UukGoblin> knotwork, there are two options really, a fighting game, or a non-fighting one (like SL)
1634 2011-04-08 16:08:41 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: or a creation one
1635 2011-04-08 16:08:55 <UukGoblin> yeah, like minecraft or something
1636 2011-04-08 16:08:58 <luke-jr> …
1637 2011-04-08 16:08:59 <knotwork> basically I am not trying yet to make game itself be p2p. just to use p2p currencies in it so if players want to
1638 2011-04-08 16:08:59 <luke-jr> like MOO
1639 2011-04-08 16:09:06 <knotwork> trade them outside the game they can
1640 2011-04-08 16:09:15 <UukGoblin> majster of orion? thought it was a turn-based strategy
1641 2011-04-08 16:09:18 <luke-jr> or a combination of MOO and ZZT/MegaZeux
1642 2011-04-08 16:09:23 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: erm, no. MOO.
1643 2011-04-08 16:09:52 <Kiba> my game use bitcoin :)
1644 2011-04-08 16:09:52 <luke-jr> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOO
1645 2011-04-08 16:10:24 <luke-jr> "One of the most distinguishing features of a MOO is that its users can perform object oriented programming within the server, ultimately expanding and changing how the server behaves to everyone."
1646 2011-04-08 16:11:11 <knotwork> the main reason I have avoided the fully graphical 3d virtual reality type approach is cost plus I myself never used to
1647 2011-04-08 16:11:16 <luke-jr> so, any random person can create a series of rooms for their RPG
1648 2011-04-08 16:11:20 <luke-jr> and create monsters in them
1649 2011-04-08 16:11:23 <knotwork> have enough graphic card power to even view such things
1650 2011-04-08 16:11:42 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1651 2011-04-08 16:11:42 <knotwork> second life would take 15 minutes to try to draw what might be the line of a horizon or something, and by then
1652 2011-04-08 16:11:50 <luke-jr> and any other random person could write their own AI to play it ;)
1653 2011-04-08 16:12:02 <knotwork> anyone present had moved etc. it could not even draw room let alone clothe my character
1654 2011-04-08 16:12:07 TheAncientGoat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1655 2011-04-08 16:12:56 <knotwork> MOO/MUD is nice because it can detail if it wants but mostly it gets to use the most powerful graphic processor
1656 2011-04-08 16:13:04 <knotwork> in the known universe - your own imagination
1657 2011-04-08 16:13:42 <luke-jr> knotwork: any new system needs 3D rendering
1658 2011-04-08 16:13:50 <knotwork> a graphicall realism client should simply read MUD/MOO output, or even a normal novel, and make its images from what it is told
1659 2011-04-08 16:13:51 <luke-jr> for better or worse
1660 2011-04-08 16:14:41 <knotwork> ideally it should let user end handle imagery detail, so author can say "it is th most beautiful creature you ever saw"
1661 2011-04-08 16:14:58 <knotwork> and player's computer looks up what THAT player thinks is the most beautiful...
1662 2011-04-08 16:15:15 Lachesis has joined
1663 2011-04-08 16:15:54 <knotwork> I find 3d rendered stuff horrible for most purposes of actually doing stuff
1664 2011-04-08 16:16:17 <knotwork> its pretty eye-candy but just gets in the way of giving orders of what you want to have happen
1665 2011-04-08 16:16:32 zooko has left ("#tahoe-lafs")
1666 2011-04-08 16:17:38 <knotwork> also it tends to make it hard to support blind folk deaf folk etc doesn't it? how to show it in braille?
1667 2011-04-08 16:18:00 moop__ has joined
1668 2011-04-08 16:18:29 jackSmith has joined
1669 2011-04-08 16:18:37 <knotwork> certainly it at least should have a scripting / textmode interface
1670 2011-04-08 16:18:47 <krytzz> nobody thinks about that in games
1671 2011-04-08 16:19:17 <knotwork> I dont want to hold my computer's hand while it plays, I want to show it how I want it to play for me then go do
1672 2011-04-08 16:19:30 <knotwork> something else while it plays out my strategy / tactics
1673 2011-04-08 16:20:08 <knotwork> its my computer, not a tv top game console!
1674 2011-04-08 16:20:30 <knotwork> I want to use it to compute best way to achieve what I want achieved
1675 2011-04-08 16:21:02 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1676 2011-04-08 16:21:20 <knotwork> the 3d graphics might be nice movie to sit back later and watch highlights of how it did what I told it to
1677 2011-04-08 16:21:53 <knotwork> but movies are slow, take a lot of time to see what could be summarised in few words
1678 2011-04-08 16:23:17 prax has joined
1679 2011-04-08 16:24:14 <luke-jr> knotwork: 3D and text-mode are basically exclusive.
1680 2011-04-08 16:24:34 <luke-jr> inevitably, those who upload 3D models won't bother to provide a text description, and vice-versa
1681 2011-04-08 16:26:26 <knotwork> vice versa is the norm: author writes plot, screenwriter decides it might look nice to edits it with rendering in mind,
1682 2011-04-08 16:26:56 <knotwork> director/producer picks one of the screenplays as maybe worth rendering
1683 2011-04-08 16:27:16 <knotwork> so you hopefully only end up having to sit through renderings of the bits that look good
1684 2011-04-08 16:27:41 <knotwork> the reset you can read the executive summary or coles notes or readers digest or entire novel if you want
1685 2011-04-08 16:27:46 <knotwork> s/rset/rest/
1686 2011-04-08 16:27:53 <knotwork> s/reset/rest/
1687 2011-04-08 16:28:51 <knotwork> i would be lovely to be able to render a movie in fully bloew by blow detail of any given freeciv unit's battle
1688 2011-04-08 16:29:03 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1689 2011-04-08 16:29:07 <luke-jr> hmm
1690 2011-04-08 16:29:20 <luke-jr> maybe I'll just do a MOO
1691 2011-04-08 16:29:24 <luke-jr> and not let my kids play 3D games
1692 2011-04-08 16:29:24 <knotwork> with any other unit, but mostly you dont care about details, just which unit won or even did I win the city and how many
1693 2011-04-08 16:29:25 <luke-jr> <.<
1694 2011-04-08 16:29:27 <knotwork> units survived
1695 2011-04-08 16:30:12 <knotwork> maybe ideal would be to harness all those people who play 15 second shootouts without context,
1696 2011-04-08 16:30:25 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1697 2011-04-08 16:30:39 <knotwork> being able to place each shootout as part of some larger game, so ultimately each was part of some huge unit's fight
1698 2011-04-08 16:30:58 <knotwork> in some other game the 15 second shootout player cares not a bit about he just wants a quick shootout
1699 2011-04-08 16:32:16 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1700 2011-04-08 16:33:04 <knotwork> I have actualy gone to a top-down, timeline based system now. save each turn of freeciv scale, getting a mainline history,
1701 2011-04-08 16:33:31 <knotwork> then look for nexus points where maybe some lone hero could sway a key battle to branch a different history
1702 2011-04-08 16:33:54 <knotwork> then see if anyone wants to bother going in on hero scale and trying to do that, like a Wesnoth scenario or campaign
1703 2011-04-08 16:34:26 <knotwork> the 15 second shootout guys or the Wesnoth players might like to zoom in on such a nexus,
1704 2011-04-08 16:34:55 <knotwork> the galactic emperors might prefer to shrug and figure that galaxy is maybe a bit iffy but there are billojs more
1705 2011-04-08 16:35:25 <knotwork> so keep on trucking taking entire galaxies despie small error factor that here and there one of the still has a hero fighting in it
1706 2011-04-08 16:35:49 jackSmith has joined
1707 2011-04-08 16:35:50 * xelister joins
1708 2011-04-08 16:35:52 <xelister> huh?
1709 2011-04-08 16:35:55 <xelister> is this #spaceinvasion
1710 2011-04-08 16:40:15 <luke-jr> so anyhow
1711 2011-04-08 16:40:39 <luke-jr> PayPal patented financial transactions using a phone app and/or browser
1712 2011-04-08 16:40:45 <luke-jr> so all thsoe Android and iPhone clients are doomed
1713 2011-04-08 16:41:08 <ArtForz> who gives a shit?
1714 2011-04-08 16:41:11 <luke-jr> :P
1715 2011-04-08 16:41:16 <luke-jr> jk btw
1716 2011-04-08 16:42:38 <ArtForz> btw, didn't IBM patent patent trolling? :P
1717 2011-04-08 16:43:18 agricocb has joined
1718 2011-04-08 16:47:11 <luke-jr> nice
1719 2011-04-08 16:49:50 maikmerten has joined
1720 2011-04-08 16:54:51 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, yes they did
1721 2011-04-08 16:55:09 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, paypal can suck a massive cock
1722 2011-04-08 16:57:16 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Pablo Martin * r1f084bab74dc intersango/www/config.php: find out parent directory automatically instead of hardcoding. http://tinyurl.com/3bfo3vb
1723 2011-04-08 16:57:17 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Pablo Martin * r740552d8b763 intersango/www/ (config.php index.php): move stupid code from config.php to index.php. http://tinyurl.com/3osr6qg
1724 2011-04-08 16:57:20 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Pablo Martin * r07e52b461da3 intersango/INSTALL: one less step in install instructions. http://tinyurl.com/3jb7u4o
1725 2011-04-08 16:57:22 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Pablo Martin * r43823f626d01 intersango/ (INSTALL config.php db.php): refactored config settings into a simple php config file, and also made it possible to specify the config file per-virtual host. http://tinyurl.com/3on2z2q
1726 2011-04-08 17:00:36 <Kiba> xelister: did ya know about my crowdfunded project?
1727 2011-04-08 17:00:43 blablaa has joined
1728 2011-04-08 17:00:59 blablaa has left ()
1729 2011-04-08 17:01:18 <luke-jr> who is Pablo?
1730 2011-04-08 17:02:06 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1731 2011-04-08 17:07:14 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r734c9da52365 intersango/INSTALL: removed reundant line. http://tinyurl.com/4y5yt5l
1732 2011-04-08 17:08:27 jackSmith has joined
1733 2011-04-08 17:09:32 jackSmith has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1734 2011-04-08 17:10:31 jackSmith has joined
1735 2011-04-08 17:12:04 <xelister> Kiba: details?
1736 2011-04-08 17:12:55 <Kiba> xelister: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5465.0
1737 2011-04-08 17:12:56 mtrlt has joined
1738 2011-04-08 17:13:09 <Kiba> I am attempting to raise enough money for a video game project that will be online
1739 2011-04-08 17:20:08 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1740 2011-04-08 17:22:50 jackSmith has joined
1741 2011-04-08 17:25:02 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1742 2011-04-08 17:27:14 FabianB has joined
1743 2011-04-08 17:27:57 bitcoiner has joined
1744 2011-04-08 17:33:09 PacoP has joined
1745 2011-04-08 17:33:23 <manveru> Kiba: heya :)
1746 2011-04-08 17:34:30 kumi has joined
1747 2011-04-08 17:34:35 <bitcoiner> why sometimes you pay fee when sending money and sometimes you dont ?
1748 2011-04-08 17:35:46 PacoP has quit (Client Quit)
1749 2011-04-08 17:36:42 <[Tycho]> You have to pay if your TX has outputs less than 0.01 BTC or if your TX size is too big
1750 2011-04-08 17:37:35 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1751 2011-04-08 17:38:43 <ducki2p> Kiba: I'll plendge 50 BTC shortly
1752 2011-04-08 17:39:10 <ducki2p> (if it was an investment with potential of financial payback I'd pledge more)
1753 2011-04-08 17:45:59 <phantomcircuit> ill pay someone 5BTC if they can tell me why http://covertinferno.org:3000/ has the categories pushed down
1754 2011-04-08 17:46:07 <phantomcircuit> (ipv6 wont work fyi)
1755 2011-04-08 17:47:16 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * rd8b2f68a8de4 intersango/db.php: fixed indentation of connect_btc http://tinyurl.com/5ulnpz8
1756 2011-04-08 17:47:18 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * rea97c52ca804 intersango/db.php: BUGFIX: use global config value. http://tinyurl.com/6gvbyv2
1757 2011-04-08 17:47:20 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r907b76667da5 intersango/INSTALL: Merge branch 'master' of gitorious.org:intersango/master http://tinyurl.com/69hdn8m
1758 2011-04-08 17:49:22 <gjs278> phantomcircuit it's because of your clear
1759 2011-04-08 17:49:23 <Kiba> ducki2p: thanks
1760 2011-04-08 17:49:25 <gjs278> the clearboth
1761 2011-04-08 17:50:04 <gjs278> you need the float the categories left or use position relative/absolute
1762 2011-04-08 17:51:09 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, the clear: both; on which element?
1763 2011-04-08 17:51:17 <gjs278> on categories ol I think
1764 2011-04-08 17:51:23 <phantomcircuit> because i have the facebook thing setup identically as the two blocks above it
1765 2011-04-08 17:52:09 sacarlson has joined
1766 2011-04-08 17:52:13 <gjs278> phantomcircuit set #categories to position absolute
1767 2011-04-08 17:52:18 <gjs278> and it will work
1768 2011-04-08 17:52:34 <gjs278> but then the page won't extend far enough
1769 2011-04-08 17:52:50 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1770 2011-04-08 17:53:10 <gjs278> its so annoying working in firebug
1771 2011-04-08 17:53:20 <gjs278> I had a css extension before I need to go get that
1772 2011-04-08 17:56:36 m00p has joined
1773 2011-04-08 17:57:13 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r4f8e69d05c16 intersango/ (login.php switcher.php www/index.php): fixed header.php being included when login can send header data. http://tinyurl.com/3ghx7nx
1774 2011-04-08 17:59:23 moop__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1775 2011-04-08 18:00:04 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, bah i dont get it, why does the clear work across the div
1776 2011-04-08 18:00:23 <gjs278> when you clear:both it decides to go completely under the last float
1777 2011-04-08 18:00:48 <gjs278> you need to float the entire left side against this box
1778 2011-04-08 18:00:59 <gjs278> basically #container would have to be floating too
1779 2011-04-08 18:01:20 <gjs278> which still doesn't help with your height issue really
1780 2011-04-08 18:01:29 <gjs278> because it will still slip right past
1781 2011-04-08 18:03:43 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
1782 2011-04-08 18:03:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 117363 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 1580 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 13 hours, 14 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 85798.50892964
1783 2011-04-08 18:03:48 <manveru> seems like bitcoin-central has a design issue... it doesn't check for duplicate account ids, so with a fair bit of luck someone might end up sharing their assets with another user...
1784 2011-04-08 18:04:43 Asphodelia has joined
1785 2011-04-08 18:04:45 <gjs278> phantomcircuit set #container height to 1400px; #categories to position: absolute for now
1786 2011-04-08 18:05:23 <phantomcircuit> but
1787 2011-04-08 18:05:28 <phantomcircuit> ew
1788 2011-04-08 18:05:32 <gjs278> ew is right
1789 2011-04-08 18:05:38 <gjs278> but you should make two divs
1790 2011-04-08 18:05:41 <gjs278> col_left and col_right
1791 2011-04-08 18:05:44 <gjs278> and float them against each other
1792 2011-04-08 18:06:12 <gjs278> col_left should contain mini-profile, nav-left, facebook-left
1793 2011-04-08 18:06:22 <gjs278> col_right should just have content
1794 2011-04-08 18:06:31 <gjs278> and possibly footer depending on where you want footer to be
1795 2011-04-08 18:07:14 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Pablo Martin * r3c5403..26da49 intersango/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (7 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3ctjqqf
1796 2011-04-08 18:09:02 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, well this is *slightly* better
1797 2011-04-08 18:09:18 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1798 2011-04-08 18:09:37 <gjs278> checking
1799 2011-04-08 18:09:56 <gjs278> ok
1800 2011-04-08 18:10:09 <gjs278> #content float that left
1801 2011-04-08 18:12:14 <phantomcircuit> ops
1802 2011-04-08 18:17:20 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, excellent work
1803 2011-04-08 18:18:27 <gjs278> days of my life has been dedicated to the sole purpose of figuring out why some float isn't working
1804 2011-04-08 18:18:42 <gjs278> and then I learned the container trick
1805 2011-04-08 18:20:50 Spartacus is now known as PLATO
1806 2011-04-08 18:24:36 jackSmith has joined
1807 2011-04-08 18:25:58 PLATO has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1808 2011-04-08 18:26:40 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1809 2011-04-08 18:27:13 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r0e7d4e8bcd3a intersango/ (login.php switcher.php www/index.php): Revert "fixed header.php being included when login can send header data." http://tinyurl.com/6zdrz3d
1810 2011-04-08 18:27:16 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r79f482a2153c intersango/ (login.php www/index.php): supress output of header for login page http://tinyurl.com/5v8uzzk
1811 2011-04-08 18:27:17 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r43c891f6b36a intersango/ (db.php errors.php login.php switcher.php util.php): Merge branch 'master' of gitorious.org:intersango/master http://tinyurl.com/6kuv9q8
1812 2011-04-08 18:29:42 <grbgout> phantomcircuit: you may want to check out htmldog.com; if I remember correctly, they have decent positioning tutorials and examples.
1813 2011-04-08 18:29:56 <phantomcircuit> hmm
1814 2011-04-08 18:30:11 <phantomcircuit> clicking on the categories is now broken
1815 2011-04-08 18:30:13 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
1816 2011-04-08 18:31:20 theorb has joined
1817 2011-04-08 18:32:04 <gjs278> checking
1818 2011-04-08 18:32:21 <gjs278> oh
1819 2011-04-08 18:32:40 <gjs278> looks like another clear float issue
1820 2011-04-08 18:32:56 <gjs278> see how they all line up under facebook
1821 2011-04-08 18:33:02 <gjs278> but the ones lower in the categories load fine
1822 2011-04-08 18:33:16 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1823 2011-04-08 18:34:04 <gjs278> is #container-right floated left
1824 2011-04-08 18:34:10 <gjs278> that may or may not help
1825 2011-04-08 18:34:30 <phantomcircuit> it breaks worse
1826 2011-04-08 18:34:31 <phantomcircuit> one sec
1827 2011-04-08 18:34:59 <phantomcircuit> actually
1828 2011-04-08 18:35:15 <phantomcircuit> that looks better except #container doesn't extend all the way down
1829 2011-04-08 18:35:16 <gjs278> that fixes it but probably breaks the height
1830 2011-04-08 18:35:18 <gjs278> yeah
1831 2011-04-08 18:35:33 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1832 2011-04-08 18:35:33 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
1833 2011-04-08 18:35:36 <gjs278> okay so now here's your last thing to do I think
1834 2011-04-08 18:35:47 <phantomcircuit> there we go
1835 2011-04-08 18:35:48 <gjs278> let me try and clear the footer and see if that extends it
1836 2011-04-08 18:36:11 <gjs278> oh okay you have it
1837 2011-04-08 18:36:30 <phantomcircuit> threw some <div class="clear"></div> in there
1838 2011-04-08 18:36:33 <phantomcircuit> h4x
1839 2011-04-08 18:36:50 <gjs278> yeah
1840 2011-04-08 18:36:54 <gjs278> also #categories .spinner
1841 2011-04-08 18:36:57 <gjs278> you should adjust the width
1842 2011-04-08 18:37:06 <gjs278> at 100%, it covers the right side border a bit
1843 2011-04-08 18:37:19 <gjs278> http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1356/screenshotzdz.png like that
1844 2011-04-08 18:37:25 <phantomcircuit> didnt even notice that
1845 2011-04-08 18:37:55 <phantomcircuit> i wish i could do like
1846 2011-04-08 18:37:55 <gjs278> it goes away as soon as it finishes loading
1847 2011-04-08 18:38:00 <phantomcircuit> width: 90%-10px;
1848 2011-04-08 18:38:02 <phantomcircuit> :|
1849 2011-04-08 18:38:19 <gjs278> margin-right maybe or just set 95%
1850 2011-04-08 18:38:48 amiller has joined
1851 2011-04-08 18:39:06 <gjs278> 95% is probably the way to go actually
1852 2011-04-08 18:39:11 <phantomcircuit> ha neat
1853 2011-04-08 18:39:12 <phantomcircuit> <3
1854 2011-04-08 18:39:25 <phantomcircuit> if you cant tell i suck at design
1855 2011-04-08 18:39:52 <topi`> the bitcoin wiki has an entry of "ideal properties of dig. commodities". where it says something about scalability, and Bitcoin's scalability is "only" C. What are the biggest limits to Bitcoin's scalability towards a really large network?
1856 2011-04-08 18:39:54 <gjs278> one minor error, but your </a> on <h3 class="accordion"><a href="/categories/655" data-remote="true">attractions</a></a></h3> is doubled up
1857 2011-04-08 18:39:59 <topi`> say, 1 million bitcoin clients connected
1858 2011-04-08 18:41:00 <phantomcircuit> <%= link_to c.category_name.downcase, c, :remote => true %></a>
1859 2011-04-08 18:41:01 <phantomcircuit> heh
1860 2011-04-08 18:41:24 <phantomcircuit> topi`, transaction propagation afaict
1861 2011-04-08 18:45:12 <luke-jr> OMG
1862 2011-04-08 18:45:31 moop has joined
1863 2011-04-08 18:45:33 <luke-jr> does the order of items in listtransactions change when a txn goes from 0 to 1 confirmation⁇?
1864 2011-04-08 18:45:47 <Kiba> ducki2p: so..when you're going to pledge?
1865 2011-04-08 18:46:31 <grbgout> phantomcircuit: so gjs278 won the 5BTC?
1866 2011-04-08 18:46:43 <phantomcircuit> if he wants it
1867 2011-04-08 18:46:50 <luke-jr> I think it does ☹
1868 2011-04-08 18:46:53 <phantomcircuit> xD
1869 2011-04-08 18:47:01 <phantomcircuit> i need an address if he does
1870 2011-04-08 18:47:05 <luke-jr> and not only that, but the TIME changes too?
1871 2011-04-08 18:47:11 <grbgout> luke-jr: that's interesting, I'll keep an eye out for that behavior if no one confirms it for you.
1872 2011-04-08 18:47:13 <gjs278> 1DVWMsezfs8Gw3we6nRJ4RKbU3g8gD9UrB
1873 2011-04-08 18:47:36 * grbgout grumbles
1874 2011-04-08 18:47:42 <gjs278> lol
1875 2011-04-08 18:47:47 <grbgout> Does anyone in here have an ebay account that starts with a g and ends with a g?
1876 2011-04-08 18:47:52 <grbgout> gjs278: not grumbling about that.
1877 2011-04-08 18:48:02 <gjs278> mine starts with a g
1878 2011-04-08 18:48:05 <gjs278> but does not end with one
1879 2011-04-08 18:48:08 <grbgout> k
1880 2011-04-08 18:48:22 <grbgout> someone has nabbed two gpus out from under me, I only wanted one, though >_<
1881 2011-04-08 18:48:32 <gjs278> damn
1882 2011-04-08 18:48:34 <gjs278> hate sniping
1883 2011-04-08 18:48:35 * grbgout shakes his fist at g***g
1884 2011-04-08 18:48:41 <luke-jr> g⁂g
1885 2011-04-08 18:48:45 <gjs278> hahah
1886 2011-04-08 18:49:02 <gjs278> they should let you see the names
1887 2011-04-08 18:49:03 <grbgout> oh, I don't think he's 'sniped' it.  The auction won't end for another 2 days, I was just hoping to get one of the cards.
1888 2011-04-08 18:49:10 <gjs278> oh ok
1889 2011-04-08 18:49:18 <gjs278> I thought he wanted until 2 seconds left and bit $2 more
1890 2011-04-08 18:49:22 <gjs278> those are the worst
1891 2011-04-08 18:49:23 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1892 2011-04-08 18:49:41 <grbgout> nope, his max bid is just higher than mine
1893 2011-04-08 18:49:54 <ArtForz> actually sniping is how I always bid for shit on ebay
1894 2011-04-08 18:50:06 <grbgout> ArtForz: how do you deduce their max bid?
1895 2011-04-08 18:50:09 <ArtForz> I dont
1896 2011-04-08 18:50:11 <grbgout> or do you just trial-and-error?
1897 2011-04-08 18:50:13 <gjs278> I just do "buy it now" if I really need to get anything on ebay
1898 2011-04-08 18:50:22 <ArtForz> I just place my max bid ~1 sec before end
1899 2011-04-08 18:50:37 <grbgout> doesn't the auto bidding take care of that?
1900 2011-04-08 18:50:42 <gjs278> they should have antisnipe
1901 2011-04-08 18:50:43 <ArtForz> nope
1902 2011-04-08 18:50:47 <gjs278> where the auction gets extended 5 minutes
1903 2011-04-08 18:50:47 <grbgout> didn't know that
1904 2011-04-08 18:50:51 <gjs278> for every bid in the last minute
1905 2011-04-08 18:50:52 <grbgout> should have kept my bids to myself >_<
1906 2011-04-08 18:50:55 <ArtForz> because then you get asshats second-guessing their max bid
1907 2011-04-08 18:51:18 <grbgout> I've only bought something off of ebay once, so I don't really know the ropes.
1908 2011-04-08 18:51:49 <ArtForz> btw, good luck finding decent used industrial machines with non-crazy buy-it-now prices
1909 2011-04-08 18:53:22 <phantomcircuit> wow fail
1910 2011-04-08 18:54:35 lumos has joined
1911 2011-04-08 18:54:38 <lumos> genjix, http://www.youtube.com/user/Hak5Darren?feature=lb#p/l/hFrdQwIY5Wo
1912 2011-04-08 18:55:30 RazielZ has quit ()
1913 2011-04-08 18:56:07 <lumos> genjix, tell him you want to put your cpu in his motherboard he gets all flustered
1914 2011-04-08 18:58:39 lumos_ has joined
1915 2011-04-08 18:59:02 Necr0s has joined
1916 2011-04-08 18:59:24 <ducki2p> Kiba: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5465.msg82186#msg82186
1917 2011-04-08 18:59:47 <phantomcircuit> http://www.idle-hacking.com/2009/12/follow-up-on-caches_action-and-content_for-blocks/
1918 2011-04-08 18:59:49 <phantomcircuit> god
1919 2011-04-08 18:59:51 <phantomcircuit> fucking rails
1920 2011-04-08 18:59:57 <phantomcircuit> ITS MAGIC DONT WORRY ABOUT IT
1921 2011-04-08 19:00:02 <phantomcircuit> oh btw this doesnt work
1922 2011-04-08 19:00:04 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
1923 2011-04-08 19:01:08 <Kiba> ducki2p: thanks for pledging
1924 2011-04-08 19:01:19 lumos has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1925 2011-04-08 19:05:21 Asphodelia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1926 2011-04-08 19:05:41 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1927 2011-04-08 19:05:49 tabsa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1928 2011-04-08 19:05:50 taco_the_paco has joined
1929 2011-04-08 19:05:50 taco_the_paco has quit (Changing host)
1930 2011-04-08 19:05:50 taco_the_paco has joined
1931 2011-04-08 19:06:33 tabsa has joined
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1933 2011-04-08 19:06:45 brunner has quit (Changing host)
1934 2011-04-08 19:06:45 brunner has joined
1935 2011-04-08 19:07:48 <Necr0s> .seen MagicalTux
1936 2011-04-08 19:08:16 <grbgout> I saw him yesterday... unless that was earlier this morning >_>
1937 2011-04-08 19:08:42 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1938 2011-04-08 19:09:17 <xelister> ;;seen MagicalTux
1939 2011-04-08 19:09:18 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 10 hours, 58 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> jgarzik, yep, I'm tired
1940 2011-04-08 19:09:34 <Necr0s> thx
1941 2011-04-08 19:09:39 <xelister> mystery solved, he's tierd
1942 2011-04-08 19:09:40 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1943 2011-04-08 19:09:49 <xelister> ;;seen boobs
1944 2011-04-08 19:09:49 <gribble> I have not seen boobs.
1945 2011-04-08 19:09:50 * grbgout chuckles.
1946 2011-04-08 19:09:54 <grbgout> aw, poor gribble
1947 2011-04-08 19:10:43 jackSmith has joined
1948 2011-04-08 19:10:59 <Necr0s> Did y'all read about Flash "molehill" with CUDA support?
1949 2011-04-08 19:11:15 <grbgout> nope, but I saw something about WebCL a few weeks ago.
1950 2011-04-08 19:11:17 <Necr0s> Maybe that parasite GPU miner thing could become a reality.
1951 2011-04-08 19:11:35 xelister is now known as dicks
1952 2011-04-08 19:11:41 <dicks>    "*Squirt!*" (on Freenode).  btw. i seen the dicks when I joined Ati devel team in sucking them LOL :D
1953 2011-04-08 19:11:43 dicks is now known as xelister
1954 2011-04-08 19:11:44 <grbgout> and a parasitic GPU miner was the first thing I thought of
1955 2011-04-08 19:11:46 <xelister> ;seen dicks
1956 2011-04-08 19:11:52 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1957 2011-04-08 19:11:53 <Necr0s> heh
1958 2011-04-08 19:12:10 <Necr0s> The Flash one specifically mentions providing a means to use the shaders.
1959 2011-04-08 19:12:23 xelister has joined
1960 2011-04-08 19:12:34 <grbgout> I was thinking of something along the lines of d0z.me, but for mining --- before that I was thinking of doz.me style app/script for bittorrenting a site's content, to combat slash-dot type effects, but it seems bittorrent already provides such a service called DNA Torrent, or something.
1961 2011-04-08 19:12:35 <xelister> ;;seen dicks
1962 2011-04-08 19:12:36 <gribble> dicks was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 54 seconds ago: <dicks>    "*Squirt!*" (on Freenode).  btw. i seen the dicks when I joined Ati devel team in sucking them LOL :D
1963 2011-04-08 19:12:40 Asphodelia has joined
1964 2011-04-08 19:18:19 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1965 2011-04-08 19:18:40 <Kiba> xelister: so...what do you think of my crowdfunded project?
1966 2011-04-08 19:21:08 alkor has joined
1967 2011-04-08 19:21:40 <ArtForz> flash cuda ... webcl ... great, turn xss into xsm (cross-site mining)
1968 2011-04-08 19:22:06 agorist has joined
1969 2011-04-08 19:22:26 <grbgout> ArtForz: yup, lol.
1970 2011-04-08 19:22:45 <grbgout> Or as a replacement for commercials on video sites....
1971 2011-04-08 19:22:51 <ArtForz> yeah, flash ads that literally pay for themselves
1972 2011-04-08 19:22:57 <grbgout> yup
1973 2011-04-08 19:23:01 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1974 2011-04-08 19:23:22 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1975 2011-04-08 19:23:32 <grbgout> I wouldn't mind if something like Hulu gave me the option to mine for them while watching videos instead of watching commercials.
1976 2011-04-08 19:24:10 <grbgout> It wouldn't even eliminate commercials entirely, since not every PC is capable of GPU mining....
1977 2011-04-08 19:26:01 <grbgout> anyway, I've been waiting for my browser to support WebGL and WebCL before experimenting, but I suppose I should bite the bullet and look for a compatible browser instead.
1978 2011-04-08 19:28:11 <grbgout> Ah, seems the name of the d0z.me style bittorrent concept is called BitTorrent DNA --- I was close, just a little lexdysic. ;)
1979 2011-04-08 19:28:49 <grbgout> still not quite the same as what I was thinking of, though...
1980 2011-04-08 19:29:01 <grbgout> anyway... How about that local sports, team, hmm?
1981 2011-04-08 19:31:15 LtBrenton__ has joined
1982 2011-04-08 19:32:15 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r67471040177a intersango/util.php: new status for requests. used mainly for withdrawals- sets them as validated. http://tinyurl.com/3smexal
1983 2011-04-08 19:32:17 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r1759cc0d05c6 intersango/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of gitorious.org:intersango/master http://tinyurl.com/3qmwr7d
1984 2011-04-08 19:32:21 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r1648fbb19053 spesmilo/cashier.py:
1985 2011-04-08 19:32:21 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Bugfix: When a transaction is goes from 0 to 1 confirmation, bitcoind seems to
1986 2011-04-08 19:32:21 <CIA-89> bitcoin: reset its time and position in the listtransactions list; detect this and move
1987 2011-04-08 19:32:21 <CIA-89> bitcoin: its cashier row (rather than adding a dupe) http://tinyurl.com/3evnpu4
1988 2011-04-08 19:34:00 LtBrenton_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1989 2011-04-08 19:34:06 <phantomcircuit> http://www.japanprobe.com/2007/05/02/disneyland-in-china/
1990 2011-04-08 19:34:08 <phantomcircuit> rofl
1991 2011-04-08 19:34:14 <phantomcircuit> china is like a bad joke
1992 2011-04-08 19:35:22 <JFK911> china's lots of fun
1993 2011-04-08 19:35:30 <JFK911> gotta have respect
1994 2011-04-08 19:35:50 <genjix> lumos_: it says it's stopped
1995 2011-04-08 19:36:35 <luke-jr> hrm, CIA wraps long commit msgs?
1996 2011-04-08 19:37:41 theymos has joined
1997 2011-04-08 19:39:28 <lumos_> genjix, yes it has now, he stopped it because my comments were making him nervous and he said 'youtube comments are being youtube'
1998 2011-04-08 19:39:43 stamit has quit (K-Lined)
1999 2011-04-08 19:42:17 <CIA-89> bitcoin: various * rf7d967..6f68e9 intersango/ (DATABASE util.php interpreter.php): (5 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3ctjqqf
2000 2011-04-08 19:42:21 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr watch * r074d562f8d0d supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor-personal/MarketMonitor/plugin.py: Bugfix: show integer TBC values without a ".", and show a flat "-" instead of 0 (which somehow happened...? :/) http://tinyurl.com/5tnt8nd
2001 2011-04-08 19:47:05 <luke-jr> tcatm: ^ that's your bug, I think
2002 2011-04-08 19:47:27 <luke-jr> that is, how a volume 0 trade occurs
2003 2011-04-08 19:47:55 <genjix> lumos_: supercontinent
2004 2011-04-08 19:48:46 lumos_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2005 2011-04-08 19:49:08 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
2006 2011-04-08 19:52:16 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r7331003885c9 spesmilo/cashier.py: Bugfix: ugh, update the Date/time which also apparently changes too :/ http://tinyurl.com/69794r4
2007 2011-04-08 19:52:17 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r5b4c2e8dc254 intersango/DATABASE: auto increment for curr_basket. http://tinyurl.com/6zeeeez
2008 2011-04-08 19:54:21 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2009 2011-04-08 19:56:04 JP_Morgan has joined
2010 2011-04-08 19:59:06 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
2011 2011-04-08 19:59:19 amiller has joined
2012 2011-04-08 20:00:18 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2013 2011-04-08 20:01:59 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014 2011-04-08 20:03:43 lumos has joined
2015 2011-04-08 20:05:14 alkor has quit (Quit: alkor)
2016 2011-04-08 20:13:17 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2017 2011-04-08 20:15:40 <genjix> jgarzik: is http://yyz.us/bitcoin/authproxy.py old?
2018 2011-04-08 20:16:13 <jgarzik> genjix: yes.  you want https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinrpc or http://yyz.us/bitcoin/python-bitcoinrpc-0.3-g61334635.tar.gz
2019 2011-04-08 20:16:18 * jgarzik goes to delete...
2020 2011-04-08 20:16:33 <genjix> jgarzik: ok ill update it
2021 2011-04-08 20:16:45 <genjix> i've locked the page because luke-jr is being unco-operative
2022 2011-04-08 20:17:00 <genjix> i want a discussion, and told him to make a forum post if he disagrees
2023 2011-04-08 20:17:18 <jgarzik> genjix: best to point people to github, as the release tarball URL changes with each version
2024 2011-04-08 20:17:22 <luke-jr> genjix: you keep vandalizing it
2025 2011-04-08 20:17:28 <genjix> ok jgarzik. done.
2026 2011-04-08 20:17:38 <genjix> 21:14 <luke-jr> now you're just abusing power
2027 2011-04-08 20:17:49 <genjix> i dont think im being unfair.
2028 2011-04-08 20:18:07 ArtForz has joined
2029 2011-04-08 20:18:08 <genjix> air your complaints in public, so others can weigh in with their views. i dont need to hide anything.
2030 2011-04-08 20:18:22 <luke-jr> genjix: you're the one reverting it from how it was just fine
2031 2011-04-08 20:18:30 <luke-jr> and hiding one option
2032 2011-04-08 20:18:33 <genjix> no i made a change + you reverted it.
2033 2011-04-08 20:18:41 <luke-jr> no, your "change" was a revert
2034 2011-04-08 20:18:50 <luke-jr> it doesn't matter if you edited the message
2035 2011-04-08 20:19:03 <genjix> so make a forum post and open a discussion if it bothers you. getting into an edit war is not the way.
2036 2011-04-08 20:19:06 <luke-jr> your change also made it wrong, and was unfair competition
2037 2011-04-08 20:19:12 <luke-jr> the edit war is you
2038 2011-04-08 20:19:16 <genjix> JSON-RPC SUCKS
2039 2011-04-08 20:19:28 <luke-jr> genjix: yes it does, but that's the protocol and unrelated to anything here
2040 2011-04-08 20:19:37 <genjix> the python library
2041 2011-04-08 20:19:44 <luke-jr> python-jsonrpc also sucks, but it still is a valid competing option
2042 2011-04-08 20:19:54 <genjix> it imports numbers as floats and doesn't support persistent connections
2043 2011-04-08 20:20:00 <luke-jr> the wx client sucks too, maybe we should remove it from the site
2044 2011-04-08 20:20:05 <genjix> therefore in my mind it doesn't deserve a mention.
2045 2011-04-08 20:20:13 <luke-jr> floats are better, for this particular purpose
2046 2011-04-08 20:20:19 <luke-jr> genjix: that's your opinion
2047 2011-04-08 20:20:38 <genjix> im not discussing it further. either open a forum topic
2048 2011-04-08 20:20:58 <genjix> i will respond in the forum rather than being sucked into this.
2049 2011-04-08 20:21:18 <genjix> if anybody agrees that im abusing my power i will unlock it.
2050 2011-04-08 20:21:33 <genjix> but you have to agree to agree with the consensus here.
2051 2011-04-08 20:21:57 <luke-jr> there is no consensus when 2 people, one the original competitor, and the other the one vandalizing it, agree
2052 2011-04-08 20:23:26 <genjix> make
2053 2011-04-08 20:23:26 <genjix> a
2054 2011-04-08 20:23:27 <genjix> forum
2055 2011-04-08 20:23:28 <genjix> post
2056 2011-04-08 20:23:43 KBme has quit (Excess Flood)
2057 2011-04-08 20:24:58 KBme has joined
2058 2011-04-08 20:27:12 <Diablo-D3> interesting
2059 2011-04-08 20:27:15 <Diablo-D3> hey ArtForz
2060 2011-04-08 20:27:32 <Diablo-D3> cat 11.4b (a fucking hotfix for linux, wow) supports 6790
2061 2011-04-08 20:28:22 <ArtForz> 6990 you mean
2062 2011-04-08 20:28:56 <Diablo-D3> nope
2063 2011-04-08 20:29:06 <ArtForz> 6970 ?
2064 2011-04-08 20:29:08 <Diablo-D3> I didnt even know that card existed
2065 2011-04-08 20:29:11 <Diablo-D3> nope
2066 2011-04-08 20:29:17 <Diablo-D3> six seven nine zero
2067 2011-04-08 20:29:23 <grbgout> Can an ATI GPU have its bios flashed to improve performance?
2068 2011-04-08 20:29:31 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: only one.
2069 2011-04-08 20:29:36 <ArtForz> that sounds... interesting
2070 2011-04-08 20:29:37 <grbgout> Diablo-D3: oh?
2071 2011-04-08 20:29:53 <ArtForz> especially as 6750/70 are relabeled 5750/70
2072 2011-04-08 20:30:05 phantomcircuit has joined
2073 2011-04-08 20:30:07 <grbgout> Diablo-D3: care to elaborate?
2074 2011-04-08 20:30:09 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: 6950 -> 6970, due to the fact 69xx yield is so high that there are hardly any actual 6950s in the wild
2075 2011-04-08 20:30:21 <grbgout> hmm
2076 2011-04-08 20:30:52 <ArtForz> so etiher it's a really boring OCed 5770, or the first 28nm part ;)
2077 2011-04-08 20:31:03 <grbgout> I asked because I read a post about someone doing so with a 5850: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4884.msg76242#msg76242
2078 2011-04-08 20:31:04 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: *50 parts are partly defective *70 parts for any given family
2079 2011-04-08 20:31:24 <ArtForz> I heavily doubt it for 58xx
2080 2011-04-08 20:31:33 <ArtForz> iirc those are hard locked
2081 2011-04-08 20:31:38 <grbgout> Diablo-D3: ah, so generally speaking it may be possible to bring any *50 up to a *70, but with doubtful benefit?
2082 2011-04-08 20:31:41 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: the firmwares can change default clocks, which it seems what that post is talking about
2083 2011-04-08 20:31:57 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: nope, they're locked in the manufacturing process
2084 2011-04-08 20:32:08 <ArtForz> except for 6950s
2085 2011-04-08 20:32:09 <Diablo-D3> AMD turned around and software locked tons of 6970s because the yield quality was too high
2086 2011-04-08 20:32:11 <grbgout> are the clocks the only difference between the 5850 and 5870?  I thought SP counts were also different.
2087 2011-04-08 20:32:16 <ArtForz> yes
2088 2011-04-08 20:32:16 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r2967da2f83a1 intersango/scr/ (match_statements.sql unit.sh): Revert "unit test shows bank statements output." http://tinyurl.com/3dy7c7n
2089 2011-04-08 20:32:32 <ArtForz> and you can't unlock shaders on anything recent except for 6950
2090 2011-04-08 20:32:32 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: 5850 is a defective 5870, the pipes dont all work
2091 2011-04-08 20:32:47 <grbgout> Interesting
2092 2011-04-08 20:32:53 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: nobody knows, as those pipes are disabled for good
2093 2011-04-08 20:32:55 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: that specific forum post talks about just upping the default clocks, which is retarded
2094 2011-04-08 20:33:06 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: AMD estimation of yield quality is usually spot on
2095 2011-04-08 20:33:18 <grbgout> ArtForz: was your "yes" to my question about clocks being the only 585/70 difference? I wasn't sure.
2096 2011-04-08 20:33:24 <ArtForz> no
2097 2011-04-08 20:33:28 <grbgout> k
2098 2011-04-08 20:33:28 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: you can just change the clocks on system load yoursel fwithout firmware hacking
2099 2011-04-08 20:33:33 <ArtForz> 5850 has 1440 shaders, 5870 has 1600
2100 2011-04-08 20:33:43 <grbgout> ArtForz: right, that's what I thought (as per my question).
2101 2011-04-08 20:33:44 <Diablo-D3> 5850 has "1600", just x are disabled due to defects.
2102 2011-04-08 20:33:53 <grbgout> ArtForz: is that due to the defec.... yarh
2103 2011-04-08 20:34:08 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: yes, but unlike 69xx, we never know if they're disabled due to defects or just because
2104 2011-04-08 20:34:13 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: 69xx just has insanely high yield quality... virtually all of them produced 6970s
2105 2011-04-08 20:34:21 <ArtForz> as there's no known way to unlock em
2106 2011-04-08 20:34:31 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, AMD doesnt lie
2107 2011-04-08 20:34:37 <grbgout> O.o
2108 2011-04-08 20:34:39 <Diablo-D3> like all those idiots that unlocked their tricores?
2109 2011-04-08 20:34:46 <Diablo-D3> most of them failed to work.
2110 2011-04-08 20:34:48 <ArtForz> I suspect a lot of the late 5850s are 5870s that would have 100% working shaders, but didnt hit target clock
2111 2011-04-08 20:35:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes
2112 2011-04-08 20:35:08 <Diablo-D3> which is still along the same problem
2113 2011-04-08 20:35:30 <Diablo-D3> if it isnt stable at full power, and disabling pipes works, why bother shipping, say, a product that has lower than normal clocks but full pipes?
2114 2011-04-08 20:35:33 <Diablo-D3> you're still fucking yourself
2115 2011-04-08 20:35:35 <ArtForz> might alos be a reason for cheap 5970s
2116 2011-04-08 20:35:42 * luke-jr pokes xelister
2117 2011-04-08 20:36:05 <ArtForz> 5970 = all shaders, but at 5850 clock/voltages
2118 2011-04-08 20:36:08 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: but yes, the firmware upgrade trick ONLY works for 6950->70, and only for the ones that it works on
2119 2011-04-08 20:36:33 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: everything else, the firmware can only change default clocks/voltages, it cant unlock cores
2120 2011-04-08 20:36:41 <ArtForz> yep
2121 2011-04-08 20:36:44 <phantomcircuit> wait
2122 2011-04-08 20:36:45 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: and you can change those in software anyhow, without firmware hacks
2123 2011-04-08 20:36:51 <ArtForz> and you can do the same thing from afterburner, so... why bother
2124 2011-04-08 20:37:00 <grbgout> good to know.
2125 2011-04-08 20:37:06 <phantomcircuit> the cards that have failing shaders, do they just stop working or do they produce garbage?
2126 2011-04-08 20:37:16 <Diablo-D3> I can almost see firmware hacks for voltage to basically force mining specific memory speed
2127 2011-04-08 20:37:20 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: garbage.
2128 2011-04-08 20:37:21 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: there's reports of both
2129 2011-04-08 20:37:28 <grbgout> what type of improvement might one expect from a clock increase over 1440 SPs?
2130 2011-04-08 20:37:31 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: they only cease to fully work when the chip has really fried
2131 2011-04-08 20:37:33 <grbgout> in terms of hashing, I mean
2132 2011-04-08 20:37:36 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: its linear.
2133 2011-04-08 20:37:37 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: nope
2134 2011-04-08 20:37:49 moop__ has joined
2135 2011-04-08 20:38:18 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: so 10% increase in core speed is a 10% increase in hashing, and something like a 15% increase in combined power usage/heat output
2136 2011-04-08 20:38:21 <grbgout> Diablo-D3: ah.  I guess what I'm wondering is which would be a more cost effective buy: 5850, and upping the clocks, or the 5870 with more SPs.
2137 2011-04-08 20:38:22 <ArtForz> people have a had non-6970 just-6950-with-all-shaders-unlocked cards produce garbage and lock up randomly and continue to work fine after re-disabling the shaders
2138 2011-04-08 20:38:30 <grbgout> Diablo-D3: ah
2139 2011-04-08 20:38:43 jackSmith has joined
2140 2011-04-08 20:38:52 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: those were 6950s that the firmware shouldnt have unlocked
2141 2011-04-08 20:38:58 <Diablo-D3> I think AMD intentionally had a defective lock
2142 2011-04-08 20:39:02 <Diablo-D3> just to allow this to work
2143 2011-04-08 20:39:27 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: 5850s are better for mhash per dollar and per watt
2144 2011-04-08 20:39:37 <Diablo-D3> er, combined dollar/watt I mean
2145 2011-04-08 20:39:48 <Diablo-D3> they're almost identical to 5870 per watt alone
2146 2011-04-08 20:40:05 <ArtForz> which is kinda bad considering 5850 runs at 1.05V and 5870 at 1.1625V
2147 2011-04-08 20:40:18 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, but you lose out on cores
2148 2011-04-08 20:40:26 <Diablo-D3> and 5870s have a dick size premium which drives the cost up
2149 2011-04-08 20:40:30 <ArtForz> yep
2150 2011-04-08 20:40:57 moop has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2151 2011-04-08 20:41:02 <Diablo-D3> btw http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTI5OQ
2152 2011-04-08 20:41:03 <retinal> Diablo-D3!
2153 2011-04-08 20:41:04 <Diablo-D3> I know its moronix
2154 2011-04-08 20:41:11 <Diablo-D3> but they couldnt have possibly typoed it twice
2155 2011-04-08 20:41:20 <grbgout> Diablo-D3: hmm, really?  I plugged the wattage, mhash average (taking the five listed on the wiki page), my cost of electricity, into a simple equation and it seemed like the 5870 did better.  But you're right, the improvement was only like $0.06 per day.
2156 2011-04-08 20:41:38 <Diablo-D3> grbgout: the wiki has watt efficiency numbers already, and they're almost identical
2157 2011-04-08 20:41:42 aaaaaa has joined
2158 2011-04-08 20:42:01 <grbgout> Diablo-D3: right, I just wanted to see the dollar amounts.
2159 2011-04-08 20:42:06 <ArtForz> eww @ 6790
2160 2011-04-08 20:42:10 <ArtForz> barts with 800 SPs
2161 2011-04-08 20:42:26 <ArtForz> that sounds like the 5830 of 6xxx cards
2162 2011-04-08 20:42:29 <Diablo-D3> Ive seen around 1.9 mhash/watt for both 5850 and 5870
2163 2011-04-08 20:42:52 <Diablo-D3> give or take on the accuracy of the measurements, etc
2164 2011-04-08 20:42:57 <ArtForz> thats a chip with >29% disabled shaders
2165 2011-04-08 20:43:03 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: eww
2166 2011-04-08 20:43:17 <Diablo-D3> well 5830 borked because disabling shaders didnt reduce power usage beyond a point
2167 2011-04-08 20:43:21 <Diablo-D3> they couldnt drop voltage low enough
2168 2011-04-08 20:43:26 <Diablo-D3> 69xx may not suffer from the same flaw
2169 2011-04-08 20:44:29 aaaaaa has left ()
2170 2011-04-08 20:44:31 <ArtForz> 68xx isn't 69xx
2171 2011-04-08 20:45:12 <ArtForz> but anyways, clock wise it also looks like 5830 reincarnate
2172 2011-04-08 20:45:39 <ArtForz> 6790 840Mhz core, 6850 775, 6870 900
2173 2011-04-08 20:46:05 * xelister looks @ luke-jr
2174 2011-04-08 20:46:25 <ArtForz> we'll see,  it runs at the same vcore as 6870 and uses more power than 6850
2175 2011-04-08 20:46:57 <grbgout> It seems a 5870 would net me $0.47 per day more than the 5850.
2176 2011-04-08 20:47:00 <ArtForz> TDP: 6790 150W, 6850 127W, 6870 151W
2177 2011-04-08 20:47:18 <ArtForz> yep, a 5830 level disaster v2
2178 2011-04-08 20:47:44 <retinal> Diablo-D3: I've heard that you have strong opinions regarding AMD chipsets; what do you think about the 890FX?
2179 2011-04-08 20:47:56 <retinal> specifically the MSI 890FXA-GD70 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130274
2180 2011-04-08 20:48:07 <ArtForz> oh, and for shits and giggles they halfed pixel fillrate
2181 2011-04-08 20:48:24 <retinal> 135USD, supposed compatibility for AM3+, yay or nay?
2182 2011-04-08 20:48:53 <ArtForz> really nice board for that price
2183 2011-04-08 20:49:21 <retinal> yeah, but with the next generation of CPUs around the corner, I'm on the edge
2184 2011-04-08 20:51:37 <retinal> http://event.msi.com/mb/am3+/ for those who are curious about where I pulled Bulldozer compatibility from
2185 2011-04-08 20:52:33 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2188 2011-04-08 21:01:12 <grbgout> ArtForz, Diablo-D3: it would be kind of you to chime in on gjs278's overvolting-question thread: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5073.0
2189 2011-04-08 21:01:21 <grbgout> I'm sure he would appreciate your expertise
2190 2011-04-08 21:07:38 <ArtForz> RBE 1.25 worked fine for ref 5870s here
2191 2011-04-08 21:07:55 <grbgout> what do you mean by "ref" 5870s?
2192 2011-04-08 21:08:04 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2193 2011-04-08 21:08:05 <ArtForz> reference cards
2194 2011-04-08 21:08:23 <grbgout> I'm not familiar with what that's supposed to mean.... something of the manufacturer's?
2195 2011-04-08 21:08:33 <ArtForz> yes
2196 2011-04-08 21:08:38 <grbgout> ah, okay.
2197 2011-04-08 21:08:54 <Necr0s> Most 5x70s I've seen use the reference design.
2198 2011-04-08 21:08:55 <ArtForz> his card is using differentz voltagre regs and bios than a "normnal" card
2199 2011-04-08 21:09:00 monkeykoder has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2200 2011-04-08 21:09:00 shofetim has joined
2201 2011-04-08 21:09:08 <ArtForz> so RBE has no clue how to handle it
2202 2011-04-08 21:09:10 <Necr0s> So far as the cooler anyway.
2203 2011-04-08 21:10:30 <ArtForz> and of course all that mucking with the voltage reg i2c buses is completely püroeprtiary and undocumented
2204 2011-04-08 21:10:43 <topi`> I wonder why the old ATI/AMD core
2205 2011-04-08 21:10:49 <ArtForz> fucking fuckers
2206 2011-04-08 21:10:54 <topi`> 'Cypress' is actually faster in SHA than the new Barts core
2207 2011-04-08 21:11:00 <topi`> if one looks at Mhash/sec
2208 2011-04-08 21:11:16 <ArtForz> errr... because it is a different arch?
2209 2011-04-08 21:11:24 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2210 2011-04-08 21:11:39 <topi`> anandtech article said that Barts is just a revamped Cypress
2211 2011-04-08 21:11:42 <ArtForz> barts is essentially a heavily improved 5770
2212 2011-04-08 21:12:06 <ArtForz> juniper shaders, 69xx frontend, redwood memory controllers
2213 2011-04-08 21:12:25 <xelister> Cypress is best in the world - Cypress it is so cool, they even named a rap group after it.
2214 2011-04-08 21:13:49 <ArtForz> btw, also fun, AMDs latest FireStream GPGPU processors are ... 5870s
2215 2011-04-08 21:14:17 <ArtForz> slightly downclocked and with more memory
2216 2011-04-08 21:14:34 <phantomcircuit> why would they do that
2217 2011-04-08 21:14:35 larsivi has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2218 2011-04-08 21:14:49 <xelister> kind of like they made some Harder Better Stronger as a cartoon to honor Kayne West's song
2219 2011-04-08 21:14:58 <ArtForz> why not?
2220 2011-04-08 21:15:46 <ArtForz> FireStream 9370, 1600SP, 825MHz, 4GB GDDR5 @ 1150
2221 2011-04-08 21:16:04 <ArtForz> aka "hey, thats a downclocked 5870 with twice the memory for 2 grand"
2222 2011-04-08 21:16:06 <Necr0s> It's ovar 9000!
2223 2011-04-08 21:16:29 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, is doubling the memory helpful for most gpgpu ops?
2224 2011-04-08 21:16:39 <ArtForz> well, for some
2225 2011-04-08 21:16:44 JP_Morgan has left ("Verlassend")
2226 2011-04-08 21:16:47 <Necr0s> Helpful for storing bigassed "textures".
2227 2011-04-08 21:16:50 <ArtForz> problem is, when you run out of local memory, you're pretty much SOL
2228 2011-04-08 21:17:05 <xelister> for games with milions ultrares textures at once.  imo not real
2229 2011-04-08 21:17:06 <ArtForz> as having to go over PCIe to fetch data really kills throughput
2230 2011-04-08 21:17:40 <xelister> how many games really >2000 MB textures compressed
2231 2011-04-08 21:17:58 <ArtForz> http://techreport.com/discussions.x/19141
2232 2011-04-08 21:18:24 <Necr0s> I guess you could load an entire divx movie onto the card, and have it decode straight from it's own memory.
2233 2011-04-08 21:18:31 <Necr0s> In theory.
2234 2011-04-08 21:18:33 <ArtForz> "hey amd, how much for 100 of these coolers?"
2235 2011-04-08 21:18:54 <xelister> yea Necr0s
2236 2011-04-08 21:19:27 <xelister> although im just newb in opegl etc
2237 2011-04-08 21:19:51 <xelister> *open
2238 2011-04-08 21:27:51 Lachesis has joined
2239 2011-04-08 21:29:16 <Diablo-D3> [04:45:13] <retinal> Diablo-D3: I've heard that you have strong opinions regarding AMD chipsets; what do you think about the 890FX?
2240 2011-04-08 21:29:28 <Diablo-D3> 790FX/890FX isnt related to the 700/800 family
2241 2011-04-08 21:29:53 <Diablo-D3> its on a different fabsize, and has some features the rest dont, and some different impl of the same features
2242 2011-04-08 21:30:03 <Diablo-D3> it almost seems like a consumer version of one of their server chips
2243 2011-04-08 21:30:14 <Diablo-D3> for one, it has iommu, something the rest dont
2244 2011-04-08 21:30:21 <tcatm> luke-jr: what's my bug?
2245 2011-04-08 21:30:22 <Diablo-D3> theres nothing wrong with the chipset, and it has the most pcie lanes
2246 2011-04-08 21:30:41 <luke-jr> tcatm: volume 0?
2247 2011-04-08 21:30:49 <Diablo-D3> all the >2 pci-e x16 boards generally are 7/890FX
2248 2011-04-08 21:31:11 <Diablo-D3> I usually recommend 785G/880G boards
2249 2011-04-08 21:31:38 <Diablo-D3> and btw, 7xx/8xx are the same chips, the only difference is alink (which is a set of pci-e lanes between north and southbridges) is pci-e 2.0 on 8xx
2250 2011-04-08 21:32:17 <Diablo-D3> and you can only get SB800 series on 8xx boards
2251 2011-04-08 21:32:32 <Diablo-D3> (you can get SB700 on 8xx, but I'd avoid it)
2252 2011-04-08 21:32:39 <tcatm> luke-jr: where?
2253 2011-04-08 21:33:05 <tcatm> btcex?
2254 2011-04-08 21:33:15 <Diablo-D3> retinal: that should answer your question
2255 2011-04-08 21:33:21 <luke-jr> tcatm: yes
2256 2011-04-08 21:33:44 <Diablo-D3> oh and
2257 2011-04-08 21:33:47 <Diablo-D3> [04:45:53] <retinal> 135USD, supposed compatibility for AM3+, yay or nay?
2258 2011-04-08 21:33:48 <tcatm> no idea what happens. even their website shows them as volume=0.
2259 2011-04-08 21:33:52 <Diablo-D3> I'd wait for 900 series.
2260 2011-04-08 21:35:07 <Diablo-D3> retinal: socket compatibility is useless, you need bios compat for the cpu ids
2261 2011-04-08 21:35:14 <Diablo-D3> retinal: and manufacturers tend to not upgrade the bios
2262 2011-04-08 21:35:30 <Diablo-D3> retinal: so theres a lot of boards that certain AM3 processors wont work on AM2 boards
2263 2011-04-08 21:35:58 <Diablo-D3> retinal: ie, any ones that dont have a direct translation (AM3 processors on AM2 boards give ids that AM2 boards already know)
2264 2011-04-08 21:36:35 <Diablo-D3> so like, no phenom II x6 on AM2, even though it should technically work
2265 2011-04-08 21:36:58 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2266 2011-04-08 21:44:24 <mizerydearia> bitcoin bling http://images.witcoin.com/p/1007/quotThanks-to-ye-we-have-the-final-piece-quot
2267 2011-04-08 21:45:29 <retinal> Diablo-D3: ahh, thanks; just finished reading
2268 2011-04-08 21:45:44 <retinal> Diablo-D3: however, MSI appears to have BIOS compatibility for the board I linked to
2269 2011-04-08 21:46:15 <retinal> Diablo-D3: I'll just take your word for it and wait for the 900 series, though; I'm not exactly in a rush to get a new motherboard just yet
2270 2011-04-08 21:48:26 DrQ has joined
2271 2011-04-08 21:51:19 <grbgout> I've been on the same mobo+cpu for the past 6 years >_>
2272 2011-04-08 21:51:34 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2273 2011-04-08 21:51:56 <grbgout> ArtForz: how successful are you, generally, with your ebay-'sniping'?
2274 2011-04-08 21:51:59 Blitzboom has joined
2275 2011-04-08 21:52:16 <CIA-89> bitcoin: various * r99e319..2e6e72 spesmilo/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (6 commits) http://tinyurl.com/6jsk3ly
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2279 2011-04-08 22:05:59 <ArtForz> grbgout: pretty decent
2280 2011-04-08 22:07:47 <xelister> ;;seen dicks
2281 2011-04-08 22:07:47 <ArtForz> kinda hard to tell, as most of the items I buy are really hard to fix a price on
2282 2011-04-08 22:07:47 <gribble> dicks was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 hours, 56 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <dicks>    "*Squirt!*" (on Freenode).  btw. i seen the dicks when I joined Ati devel team in sucking them LOL :D
2283 2011-04-08 22:08:22 <ArtForz> most extreme one was my hardwired UPS
2284 2011-04-08 22:09:06 <ArtForz> 51EUR for a 10kVA/7.5kW UPS
2285 2011-04-08 22:09:14 moop__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2286 2011-04-08 22:09:37 <ArtForz> list price $13.5k
2287 2011-04-08 22:10:57 <xelister> China 500 GB USB HDD at ~20 USD.. that turns out to just store files smaller then 64 MiB... -> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2OAOnW3Ad2E/TZ2AAKiuoBI/AAAAAAAAAPg/cC3PP09wPjg/s1600/00f63d6s.jpg :>
2288 2011-04-08 22:11:11 <topi`> ;;gen 2100
2289 2011-04-08 22:11:11 <gribble> Error: "gen" is not a valid command.
2290 2011-04-08 22:11:18 <topi`> ;;bc,gen 2100
2291 2011-04-08 22:11:19 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2100 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 0.0256504047573 BTC per day and 0.00106876686489 BTC per hour.
2292 2011-04-08 22:11:21 <ArtForz> why that cheap? well... the thing weighs 900 pounds and was sitting in a basement
2293 2011-04-08 22:11:48 <topi`> sadly, I'm getting less than 0.025 BTC per day from slush's pool :/
2294 2011-04-08 22:12:58 <topi`> the bot needs a command to calculate the amount of kilowatt-hours taken for the block
2295 2011-04-08 22:13:40 <topi`> in my case, 2100khps and 6 watts would give 0.006 btc/hour*W
2296 2011-04-08 22:13:48 <ArtForz> bot lacks crystal ball, so how should it guess hashes/joule?
2297 2011-04-08 22:14:10 <topi`> there's a wiki page full of watt estimates
2298 2011-04-08 22:16:20 <ArtForz> no batteries, but I got 2 pallets of nice 3yo 6V 210Ah SLAs from a chicken farm for scrap value
2299 2011-04-08 22:16:37 <JFK911> why is a chicken farm using batteries
2300 2011-04-08 22:16:53 <ArtForz> if the ventilation fails, you have a shitload of dead chickens
2301 2011-04-08 22:16:57 <JFK911> aha
2302 2011-04-08 22:17:13 <topi`> hmm, at 6 BTC/kWh and electricity at 0.17eur/kWh, this is at or around 1 eur spent per bitcoin
2303 2011-04-08 22:17:16 <ArtForz> so they have battery backups for a few hours in case the generator doesnt kick in
2304 2011-04-08 22:17:43 <ArtForz> and they replace em every 3 years
2305 2011-04-08 22:18:10 <ArtForz> these batteries here have a rated life of 10 years to 70% capacity in standby use
2306 2011-04-08 22:19:00 <ArtForz> = they throw away perfectly working batteries
2307 2011-04-08 22:19:14 <topi`> what kind of batteries are they? lead-acid or otherwise?
2308 2011-04-08 22:19:21 <ArtForz> fully sealed lead-acid
2309 2011-04-08 22:19:46 <ArtForz> so nope, not cheap VRLAs ;)
2310 2011-04-08 22:20:33 rocode has joined
2311 2011-04-08 22:20:45 <ArtForz> only drawback is... I need 20S as my DC rail is 120/135V
2312 2011-04-08 22:21:33 sethsethseth has joined
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2314 2011-04-08 22:22:57 <ArtForz> thats... 1.36 metric tons of batteries ;)
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2318 2011-04-08 22:26:05 <ArtForz> in theory I should have ~2h holdup at full load, never tested for more than 30 mins though
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2322 2011-04-08 22:33:27 <Kiba> genjix: the poker twitter thing is spamming my bitcoin feed
2323 2011-04-08 22:33:30 <Kiba> err
2324 2011-04-08 22:33:32 <Kiba> twitter feed
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2326 2011-04-08 22:35:07 <Blitzboom> can we all report it?
2327 2011-04-08 22:35:08 <xelister> facebook life - http://wulffmorgenthaler.com/img/strip/-WM_strip_DK_20110407.jpg
2328 2011-04-08 22:35:13 <Blitzboom> it’s annoying
2329 2011-04-08 22:38:20 <Kiba> Blitzboom: have you taken a look at my crowdfunded project?
2330 2011-04-08 22:38:50 <Blitzboom> advertise somewhere else
2331 2011-04-08 22:39:24 <Kiba> first time somebody told me that today
2332 2011-04-08 22:40:10 <luke-jr> lol
2333 2011-04-08 22:42:04 * Kiba listed Blitzboom as a brutual rejection
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2351 2011-04-08 23:17:24 <topi`> everyone is saying that mining is no longer profitable for the cost of kWh, but for many Radeon cards, it still is, at or around 10 eur per block (50 btc)
2352 2011-04-08 23:18:12 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2353 2011-04-08 23:18:14 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2354 2011-04-08 23:18:39 <topi`> for my 9400m, it is not, 275 kWh for 50 coins, which costs 47 eur
2355 2011-04-08 23:18:53 <topi`> not to mention the fact that average block takes 1900 days :D
2356 2011-04-08 23:20:13 Xunie has joined
2357 2011-04-08 23:20:57 <xelister> topi`: your gpu card sucks cocks
2358 2011-04-08 23:21:15 <xelister> go play Monkey Island on it
2359 2011-04-08 23:21:15 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
2360 2011-04-08 23:21:16 <gribble> 117398
2361 2011-04-08 23:22:09 <xelister> topi`: overall radeons are for the win :)
2362 2011-04-08 23:23:29 toffoo has quit ()
2363 2011-04-08 23:24:28 <luke-jr> topi`: high-end Radeons are profitable *if you already have one*
2364 2011-04-08 23:27:26 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2365 2011-04-08 23:28:13 <topi`> :)
2366 2011-04-08 23:30:38 <topi`> but definitely the time has gone past cpu mining
2367 2011-04-08 23:30:54 <topi`> that will just mean burning a lot of money for very little reward
2368 2011-04-08 23:32:19 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Ehud Ben-Reuven * r5538aa9c1065 iOSApp/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add Entitlements http://tinyurl.com/66tk3zg
2369 2011-04-08 23:32:33 AnAdorableNick has joined
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2373 2011-04-08 23:57:00 <Diablo-D3> hey ArtForz
2374 2011-04-08 23:57:08 <Diablo-D3> it seems you cant buy hale 90s aymore
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