1 2011-04-10 00:01:17 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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3 2011-04-10 00:02:09 <Kiba> hmm
4 2011-04-10 00:03:00 purpleposeidon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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7 2011-04-10 00:06:34 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
8 2011-04-10 00:11:45 <Speeder> what is the command to check btc per second?
9 2011-04-10 00:12:13 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,gen 3000
10 2011-04-10 00:12:14 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 3000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 0.0366434353675 BTC per day and 0.00152680980698 BTC per hour.
11 2011-04-10 00:12:28 <Blitzboom> if you meant that
12 2011-04-10 00:29:06 jefvel_ has left ()
13 2011-04-10 00:38:24 <bitcoiner> keefe: yes
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17 2011-04-10 00:52:28 <xelister> got 100 coins :D
18 2011-04-10 00:52:39 <xelister> "testnet" : true,
19 2011-04-10 00:52:46 <xelister> testnet:true
20 2011-04-10 00:52:59 <xelister> T E S T N E T : T R U E { problem? ;D }
21 2011-04-10 00:53:02 <xelister> gets me everytime lol
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27 2011-04-10 01:11:28 <Drew> Hi.
28 2011-04-10 01:11:45 <Drew> I have a question guys, care to answer it?
29 2011-04-10 01:11:50 Drew is now known as Guest940
30 2011-04-10 01:12:26 <Guest940> Anyone here?
31 2011-04-10 01:13:39 <Guest940> How does one use a miner?
32 2011-04-10 01:16:46 <jgarzik> Guest75122: #bitcoin-mining
33 2011-04-10 01:17:52 Necr0s has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
34 2011-04-10 01:18:10 <Guest940> Thanks, if that was directed at me. :D
35 2011-04-10 01:18:32 <jgarzik> damn auto-complete
36 2011-04-10 01:21:04 Bert_ has joined
37 2011-04-10 01:21:51 <Bert_> on the 'Mining hardware comparison', can anyone please explain to me what 'SP' means on the table?
38 2011-04-10 01:22:52 <idnar> "stream processors", I think
39 2011-04-10 01:23:03 <ArtForz> shader processors
40 2011-04-10 01:23:32 <ArtForz> a team I made up as every gpu manufacturer calls one 32 bit ALU something different
41 2011-04-10 01:23:37 <ArtForz> *term
42 2011-04-10 01:23:54 <Bert_> basically i have two 6990s and im trying to get as much out of them as possible
43 2011-04-10 01:24:14 <Bert_> so what the -w -v -f values should be for example
44 2011-04-10 01:24:29 <Bert_> im using DiabloMiner
45 2011-04-10 01:24:43 <ArtForz> no clue, havent played with CL miners on 69xx recently
46 2011-04-10 01:24:50 <Bert_> on Ubuntu 10.10... if that makes any difference
47 2011-04-10 01:24:56 <Bert_> alright, thanks
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51 2011-04-10 01:31:34 <Diablo-D3> heh
52 2011-04-10 01:31:35 <Diablo-D3> bert left
53 2011-04-10 01:31:39 <Diablo-D3> why do people think -v is valid
54 2011-04-10 01:32:28 <luke-jr> because -v is always valid, duh
55 2011-04-10 01:32:51 <idnar> heh
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60 2011-04-10 01:58:34 <BERRI> h
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65 2011-04-10 02:10:05 <sacarlson> is there any examples or opensource links that use php to interface to bitcoin? like on sourceforge.com?
66 2011-04-10 02:11:34 <sacarlson> like basicly a bank interface to add subract from a mysql database account
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74 2011-04-10 02:23:32 <Mango-chan> S>100btc
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96 2011-04-10 03:28:03 <sgornick> sacarlson: ,,(bc,wiki php developer)
97 2011-04-10 03:28:03 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/PHP_developer_intro | Apr 1, 2011 ... Linux Apache MySQL PHP + Bitcoin tutorial. For the sake of this tutorial we assume an Ubuntu server running with PHP. ...
98 2011-04-10 03:28:08 <knotwork> sacarlson can't you just use php's exec or system type call to directly run bitcoind to send commands to the daemon bitcoind ?
99 2011-04-10 03:33:35 <sacarlson> knotwork: well I have found some libs for php to bitcoin now but I had hoped to look at an already created project that I could just modify
100 2011-04-10 03:34:27 <knotwork> a couple of exchanges released their source code, at least one is in php
101 2011-04-10 03:34:48 <sacarlson> knotwork: that sounds perfect
102 2011-04-10 03:37:03 <sacarlson> knotwork: or just some other method that a group of people add to an account and at the end some activity the group majority picks the address to send the total of the funds
103 2011-04-10 03:39:09 <sacarlson> I guess what it would end up being is some kind of a trust fund that is owned by the group and later distributed to a single enity with all or a majority of the groups consent
104 2011-04-10 03:40:44 LtBrenton has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
105 2011-04-10 03:47:12 <knotwork> I wonder if it would be possible to construct a collisionproof hash routine that, given up to the total max number of whole bitcoins could associate each with a specific eight digits one could use in decimals of a spend to designate which address of the st one is voting for
106 2011-04-10 03:48:11 <luke-jr> st?
107 2011-04-10 03:48:22 <knotwork> so you could take all addresses issued dividends, assuming they need a whole coin to qualify for dividends, and assign to each a label people can use to refer to them using decimals of a spend to a voting address
108 2011-04-10 03:48:49 <luke-jr> â¦
109 2011-04-10 03:48:51 <luke-jr> decimal sucsk
110 2011-04-10 03:48:59 taco_the_paco has joined
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112 2011-04-10 03:49:31 <knotwork> well some of the digits, totalling to releatively trivial cost akin to 900 number phone voting type thing or less
113 2011-04-10 03:50:15 <knotwork> unfortunate side effect though is addresses that hash to higher cost would cost more to vote for
114 2011-04-10 03:52:13 <knotwork> I am trying to figure out some kind of voting to go with the Galactic (aka General) Retirement Fund shares blockchain and the Galactic (aka General) Mining Corp shares and by extension other tradeable shares based on blockchains
115 2011-04-10 03:54:08 <knotwork> maybe have some officers or something assign multile choice to vote on then allow each sending address to only send an amount up to 1/1E8 of its balance as it's vote
116 2011-04-10 03:54:41 <luke-jr> no idea what you're ranting about
117 2011-04-10 03:55:23 <knotwork> some method a group of people can share control of assets, such as the shares of the assets
118 2011-04-10 03:56:10 <knotwork> like sacarlson seemed to be talking about: shared control
119 2011-04-10 03:56:20 <knotwork> thus the term shares
120 2011-04-10 03:57:21 redengin has joined
121 2011-04-10 03:58:13 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
122 2011-04-10 04:00:17 <sacarlson> knotwork: that sounds more like corporate share ownership
123 2011-04-10 04:01:21 DrQ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
124 2011-04-10 04:01:37 <luke-jr> long live monarchy!
125 2011-04-10 04:02:47 <sacarlson> knotwork: I just need a group of poker players to deposit there money in a fund and when the group agree's who's the winner they all or most pass the pot to the winner
126 2011-04-10 04:03:50 tower has joined
127 2011-04-10 04:04:12 <knotwork> there is oodles of poker code out there surely along with lots of other card games, why not simply compute who won?
128 2011-04-10 04:04:37 <sacarlson> knotwork: but there should be an out that if something goes wrong they can all agree that all the money is put back into the pokets from where they came
129 2011-04-10 04:05:22 <knotwork> so any time only one player wins all others vote to not count that hand?
130 2011-04-10 04:05:52 <knotwork> so somehow you have to play carefully to ensure a majority of players win off a minority of losers?
131 2011-04-10 04:06:13 <knotwork> Communist Poker! re-distribute the wealth!
132 2011-04-10 04:07:03 <sacarlson> knotwork: the game I play is pokerth, you start with a group of people all starting with the same funds it will always end with only one winner that gets the pot
133 2011-04-10 04:07:13 <knotwork> introduce new but virtual "cards", so that ace high plus poverty beats one pair middle class player?
134 2011-04-10 04:07:50 <knotwork> if always only one winner, why wont others all vote that "something went wrong" ?
135 2011-04-10 04:08:17 <sacarlson> knotwork: not sure, good point
136 2011-04-10 04:09:04 <sacarlson> knotwork: it should also be able to have someone that hasn't lost all there chips yet to exit without loosing everything, like if they get disconected
137 2011-04-10 04:09:20 <knotwork> their multi hand balance would mitigate it, allow small winners to collect to soften them up so they will let you keep pot when you win big one
138 2011-04-10 04:10:14 <knotwork> keep their chip balance in their account, as soon as the lose connection they automatically just do let whats already in pot ride
139 2011-04-10 04:10:44 <knotwork> or maybe even like in brag when run out of money, put aside pot so far, rest of players keep going, if you would have
140 2011-04-10 04:11:01 NeonLightning has left ()
141 2011-04-10 04:11:04 <knotwork> won you keep the so far, winner among others gets what was put in since you fell out
142 2011-04-10 04:12:34 <sacarlson> knotwork: the pokerth already has some fallback in the event of a player not making a move within a time frame they will check or fold with no action taken if failed to move
143 2011-04-10 04:13:01 Dark_Ghost has joined
144 2011-04-10 04:14:05 <sacarlson> knotwork: I had hoped that maybe no modification would be needed to us pokerth as a game for real money with some side trust interface
145 2011-04-10 04:15:11 <sacarlson> I have already played one game for real money but only on the trust of one person and when I won he paid me
146 2011-04-10 04:15:18 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
147 2011-04-10 04:15:19 <knotwork> maybe just figure that forcing all other players to lose connection is one way of winning
148 2011-04-10 04:15:32 <Dark_Ghost> hello all
149 2011-04-10 04:15:55 <knotwork> so dont play for such large stakes it'd be worth while to pay osmeone to sabotage a certain city's electricity to force a player off the net
150 2011-04-10 04:16:03 <Dark_Ghost> i think i finally lost my wallet due to a format.
151 2011-04-10 04:16:26 <sacarlson> knotwork: well pokerth has auto fallback in the event that the one player that is acting as the server diconects it auto selects the next in the cue to continue to be the server
152 2011-04-10 04:16:33 <knotwork> also maybe run correlations to check who was opponents of anyone who ever mysteriously lost connection
153 2011-04-10 04:16:56 <knotwork> to hope to try to detect who is using botnet to DDOS opponents
154 2011-04-10 04:17:14 <sacarlson> Dark_Ghost: didn't they teach you to backup your wallet?
155 2011-04-10 04:17:46 <Dark_Ghost> sacarlson, well, thats why i am here, whats the extention of the wallet file?
156 2011-04-10 04:17:51 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
157 2011-04-10 04:17:52 <Dark_Ghost> i might have
158 2011-04-10 04:18:03 <sacarlson> Dark_Ghost: I think it's *.dat
159 2011-04-10 04:18:10 <Dark_Ghost> but i don't remember te name
160 2011-04-10 04:18:33 <Dark_Ghost> well then. time ti hit the /s
161 2011-04-10 04:18:39 <jgarzik> wallet.dat
162 2011-04-10 04:19:02 * Kiba thinks debate between socialist anarchists and libertarians are a waste of time
163 2011-04-10 04:19:11 <sacarlson> Dark_Ghost: this is what I see my wallet as /home/sacarlson/.bitcoin/wallet.dat
164 2011-04-10 04:20:40 <Dark_Ghost> well, poo.. tomorrow i check my deskop, if it's not there, 260 btc into the ether
165 2011-04-10 04:21:37 <sacarlson> Dark_Ghost: just think those can never be recovered, over time all the coins will be lost and the last coin will be worth?
166 2011-04-10 04:22:49 <sacarlson> Dark_Ghost: since the max created coins is 20 mil, and they all get lost over time there will end up with none or just one
167 2011-04-10 04:23:04 <ArtForz> yep, thanks for increasing the value of the remaining coins by about 0.00124%
168 2011-04-10 04:23:09 <lfm> haha
169 2011-04-10 04:26:57 Warlord has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
170 2011-04-10 04:30:39 <Dark_Ghost> heh, atleast i did that much good.
171 2011-04-10 04:31:01 <sacarlson> Dark_Ghost: you found it?
172 2011-04-10 04:31:55 <sacarlson> Dark_Ghost: format won't erase the contents of the disk, on linux there are tools to recover files from events like that
173 2011-04-10 04:34:42 <sacarlson> I did find this code for the exchange http://gitorious.org/intersango/master/trees/master I downloaded it and will take a quick look
174 2011-04-10 04:34:52 toffoo has joined
175 2011-04-10 04:35:23 <sacarlson> maybe the trust idea can be used for more than just poker?
176 2011-04-10 04:35:49 testing_ has joined
177 2011-04-10 04:36:40 <testing_> ping [Tycho]
178 2011-04-10 04:38:32 <testing_> Q: Do I just have to fill out the "Your PayPal address for receiving rewards" field with my e-mail to get make your system payout with paypal?
179 2011-04-10 04:38:50 <testing_> Do I have to leave my bitcoin wallet address empty?
180 2011-04-10 04:40:52 <Guest75122> The paypal thing was a April 1st joke. :) fill your wallet address.
181 2011-04-10 04:42:17 <nanotube> Guest75122: i'm pretty sure it wasn't
182 2011-04-10 04:42:36 <nanotube> testing_: seems tycho isn't on, send an email
183 2011-04-10 04:44:58 <Guest75122> is he really paying with paypal then?
184 2011-04-10 04:45:03 <testing_> if it was an april fools joke, then someone should tell him it's not april 1st anymore.
185 2011-04-10 04:45:05 <testing_> :)
186 2011-04-10 04:45:51 <Guest75122> it appeared on the 1st, I thought it was a joke
187 2011-04-10 04:46:12 <testing_> Poor choice of day to announce your new feature.
188 2011-04-10 04:46:43 <Guest75122> HA. he never said different in his thread
189 2011-04-10 04:46:51 <nanotube> Guest75122: he just sells the btc at market, then pays.
190 2011-04-10 04:48:04 <Guest75122> no additional fee?
191 2011-04-10 04:48:14 <testing_> also, he says to use the "--currency=PPUSD" with my miner, but how does he know what miner I have. and he doesnt say which miner it's specific to, so I guess this could be a poor april fools joke.
192 2011-04-10 04:48:46 <Guest75122> I don't know any miner that uses that switch.
193 2011-04-10 04:48:59 <testing_> exactly
194 2011-04-10 04:49:17 <testing_> maybe he just forgot to take his joke offline after the 1st?
195 2011-04-10 04:50:00 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
196 2011-04-10 04:52:23 <testing_> "Now I'm planning to add direct mining of USD, EUR and Zimbabwean Dollars in a next week." - I think he's joking.
197 2011-04-10 04:52:58 <testing_> The USD and EUR are about to become like Zimbabwean's currency if they don't stop printing more of it.
198 2011-04-10 04:53:06 gjs278 has joined
199 2011-04-10 04:53:33 <Guest75122> anyway, Put in your BTC address. He does pay in BTC.
200 2011-04-10 04:55:40 Warlord has joined
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204 2011-04-10 05:04:05 Dongdong is now known as Mango-chan
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207 2011-04-10 05:05:00 <hozer> It's a race to the bottom, who can issue new currency faster, Bitcoin miners, the US, or the EU?
208 2011-04-10 05:05:48 <LightRider> Someone needs to trick all the Boinc people into computing bitcoins for my account
209 2011-04-10 05:06:07 <hozer> hah
210 2011-04-10 05:06:08 <LightRider> Someone get on that
211 2011-04-10 05:06:19 `Jaka has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
212 2011-04-10 05:06:37 <hozer> I'm getting on going to bed. I've been obsessing over automated trading for too long
213 2011-04-10 05:12:36 <nanotube> hozer: speaking of automated trading, see your comments on http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5564.msg83075#msg83075 would be appreciated.
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218 2011-04-10 05:40:46 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 400000
219 2011-04-10 05:40:47 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 4.88579138234 BTC per day and 0.203574640931 BTC per hour.
220 2011-04-10 05:41:32 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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225 2011-04-10 06:22:18 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r48f04c883f8d supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCOrderBook/plugin.py: OTCOrderBook: show link to filtered list of orders when book output > max irc order count. http://tinyurl.com/433cpro
226 2011-04-10 06:32:27 Guest75122 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
227 2011-04-10 06:35:18 sss has joined
228 2011-04-10 06:35:27 <sss> hi
229 2011-04-10 06:35:43 dermoth has quit (home!~thomas@dsl-140-62.aei.ca|Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
230 2011-04-10 06:36:47 <testing_> ;;bc,gen 420000
231 2011-04-10 06:36:48 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 420000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 5.13008095145 BTC per day and 0.213753372977 BTC per hour.
232 2011-04-10 06:37:01 <sss> wo
233 2011-04-10 06:37:03 <sss> wow
234 2011-04-10 06:37:24 <testing_> wow, that BTC per day blows
235 2011-04-10 06:37:32 <testing_> fucking blows
236 2011-04-10 06:37:40 <lfm> thats pretty good actually
237 2011-04-10 06:38:03 <testing_> not to those who've been mining back when it was 1 for the DIFF. :)
238 2011-04-10 06:38:11 <LightRider> ;;bc,gen 25000
239 2011-04-10 06:38:12 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 25000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 0.305361961396 BTC per day and 0.0127234150582 BTC per hour.
240 2011-04-10 06:38:15 purpleposeidon has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
241 2011-04-10 06:38:16 <sss> considering I barely understand any of this
242 2011-04-10 06:38:19 <sss> seems good
243 2011-04-10 06:38:19 <testing_> I made 5000 BTC/month in late '09
244 2011-04-10 06:38:21 purpleposeidon has joined
245 2011-04-10 06:38:38 <lfm> testing_: ya when a btc was worth 2 cents
246 2011-04-10 06:38:45 <testing_> yup
247 2011-04-10 06:39:29 <LightRider> ;;stats
248 2011-04-10 06:39:29 <gribble> I have 17 registered users with 21 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
249 2011-04-10 06:39:38 <sss> how do you protect your BTC wallet?
250 2011-04-10 06:39:42 <sss> only thing i want to know
251 2011-04-10 06:39:44 <lfm> ;;bc,mtgox
252 2011-04-10 06:39:45 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.7676,"low":0.7205,"vol":11764,"buy":0.73,"sell":0.743,"last":0.744}}
253 2011-04-10 06:39:53 <LightRider> dropbox for me
254 2011-04-10 06:40:07 <lfm> sss just dont give it away
255 2011-04-10 06:40:30 <sss> genius concept ;p
256 2011-04-10 06:40:46 <lfm> sss protect it like you protect other valuable files
257 2011-04-10 06:40:49 <retinal> +1 for dropbox, with versioning
258 2011-04-10 06:41:22 <sss> i dont protect any of my files
259 2011-04-10 06:41:25 <sss> none are valuable
260 2011-04-10 06:42:01 <lfm> sss well now you can figure it out, keep it in an accounts private files, dont share passwords etc
261 2011-04-10 06:42:30 <LightRider> truecrpyt if you're paranoid
262 2011-04-10 06:42:40 <sss> im not too paranoid
263 2011-04-10 06:42:42 <lfm> sss or just spend em bofore anyone has a chance to steal em
264 2011-04-10 06:42:46 <LightRider> for a happy medium, zip it and password protect and then dropbox
265 2011-04-10 06:42:59 <sss> im more worried about computer blowing up
266 2011-04-10 06:43:07 <sss> and not being able to access it
267 2011-04-10 06:43:10 <lfm> sss if youd rather just let anyone have your bitcoins then forget I said anything
268 2011-04-10 06:43:37 <lfm> sss oh! you mean like doing backups
269 2011-04-10 06:43:46 <sss> yes backups
270 2011-04-10 06:43:47 purpleposeidon has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
271 2011-04-10 06:43:51 <retinal> I think it'd be more likely that someone would break into your house/car than go through the trouble of stealing bitcoins
272 2011-04-10 06:43:52 <sss> this is what I meant to say sorry
273 2011-04-10 06:43:53 purpleposeidon has joined
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275 2011-04-10 06:44:05 <lfm> well copy the wallet.dat file to a backup device then
276 2011-04-10 06:44:21 <sss> mmm
277 2011-04-10 06:44:23 <sss> okay
278 2011-04-10 06:44:31 <lfm> sss only do the backup when you have stopped and exited the bitcoin app
279 2011-04-10 06:44:33 <LightRider> I'm sure they're working on using some type of password system in the client-proper though
280 2011-04-10 06:44:46 <LightRider> so protection in that case would be automatic
281 2011-04-10 06:44:52 <sss> which would be perfect
282 2011-04-10 06:44:53 <sss> :)
283 2011-04-10 06:45:15 <lfm> LightRider: still need to do backups
284 2011-04-10 06:45:18 <LightRider> why do you have to wait to copy after closing program?
285 2011-04-10 06:45:23 <LightRider> yes
286 2011-04-10 06:45:56 <lfm> LightRider: cuz while bitcoin is running it is getting updates from the net all the time, you dont want to backup in the middle of an update
287 2011-04-10 06:46:05 <sss> iReading thorugh the BTC forums was hilarious
288 2011-04-10 06:46:20 <LightRider> do those updates affect your wallet? I thought they affected the chain database
289 2011-04-10 06:46:35 <Kiba> ?
290 2011-04-10 06:46:44 <Kiba> harilious?
291 2011-04-10 06:46:51 <sss> yeah
292 2011-04-10 06:46:54 <Kiba> how?
293 2011-04-10 06:46:55 <sss> Some people are insane
294 2011-04-10 06:46:55 <lfm> LightRider: well the wallet isnt updated as often as the main block chain files but it still can be
295 2011-04-10 06:47:00 <sss> with their theories
296 2011-04-10 06:47:19 <Kiba> sss: ok.
297 2011-04-10 06:47:20 <LightRider> ok, i'll keep that in mind in the future, have been copying while program was live
298 2011-04-10 06:47:54 <sss> more importantly the BTC idea is genius
299 2011-04-10 06:47:58 <lfm> LightRider: there is a command line command to make a live backup but its often easier to just stop it for a few seconds
300 2011-04-10 06:48:01 <Kiba> sss: so you think BTC is a stupid idea?
301 2011-04-10 06:48:07 <sss> no
302 2011-04-10 06:48:10 <sss> I think it's a genius idea
303 2011-04-10 06:48:17 <Kiba> you say it's harilious, their theories?
304 2011-04-10 06:48:27 <LightRider> what theories specifically
305 2011-04-10 06:48:31 <lfm> Kiba: just some of the forum ideas are stupid
306 2011-04-10 06:48:36 <sss> this
307 2011-04-10 06:48:42 <sss> some of the forum ideas are stupid
308 2011-04-10 06:48:45 <Kiba> lfm: I know. Like LightRider's idea is stupid.
309 2011-04-10 06:48:56 <LightRider> har har
310 2011-04-10 06:49:00 <sss> I think BTC as a whole is genius though
311 2011-04-10 06:49:01 <Kiba> for real
312 2011-04-10 06:49:08 <lfm> kiba you mean a password on the wallet?
313 2011-04-10 06:49:10 <Kiba> sss: well, if you don't give me specific, I can't know
314 2011-04-10 06:49:11 <LightRider> btc is a cool idea
315 2011-04-10 06:49:19 dermoth has joined
316 2011-04-10 06:49:21 <Kiba> lfm: no, I think LightRider's ideas are stupid
317 2011-04-10 06:49:43 <lfm> oh what other ideas has he got?
318 2011-04-10 06:49:58 <Kiba> The Venus Project
319 2011-04-10 06:50:17 <LightRider> people fear and ridicule what they don't understand
320 2011-04-10 06:50:50 <Kiba> LightRider: yeah, whatever.
321 2011-04-10 06:50:52 <lfm> you want to get a rocket to venus?
322 2011-04-10 06:50:59 <LightRider> but i think that's a topic better suited for #bitcoin-politics
323 2011-04-10 06:51:17 <LightRider> www.thevenusproject.com
324 2011-04-10 06:51:18 <Kiba> LightRider: that's rationalizing. All weird ideas are "ridiculious"
325 2011-04-10 06:51:20 purpleposeidon has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
326 2011-04-10 06:51:21 <LightRider> not about space travel
327 2011-04-10 06:51:21 <sss> can i link forum threads in here?
328 2011-04-10 06:51:31 <LightRider> or stupid
329 2011-04-10 06:51:35 <Kiba> the only difference is which ideas are ridicilious and which is genuis
330 2011-04-10 06:52:06 <Kiba> sss: link
331 2011-04-10 06:52:10 agorist has quit ()
332 2011-04-10 06:52:19 <lfm> people also ridicule stupid ideas
333 2011-04-10 06:52:29 <sss> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4817.0 I think that's hilarious
334 2011-04-10 06:52:37 <Kiba> lfm: yes. that's correct. The only question is if the ridicule is justified or not.
335 2011-04-10 06:53:03 <Kiba> sss: it's called not thinking the economic of mining through
336 2011-04-10 06:53:41 <sss> kiba i think you take this too seriously then :p
337 2011-04-10 06:53:49 <sss> if you can't find hilarity of some sort in that
338 2011-04-10 06:53:56 <sss> or maybe i just dont understand
339 2011-04-10 06:53:58 <lfm> sss: ya people see bitcoin and they think "free money!" and then they get mad when its not as easy as they want it to be
340 2011-04-10 06:54:00 <sss> could always b e that
341 2011-04-10 06:54:00 <Kiba> it's very difficult to make me laugh
342 2011-04-10 06:54:13 <sss> why?
343 2011-04-10 06:54:24 <Kiba> because...I laugh less than others
344 2011-04-10 06:54:28 <Kiba> doesn't mean I don't laugh
345 2011-04-10 06:54:33 <JFK911> someone spent a bunch of 0.05 btc in one transaction
346 2011-04-10 06:54:36 <JFK911> faucet cheater?
347 2011-04-10 06:54:43 <lfm> ss cuz kiba is a sad and bitter person
348 2011-04-10 06:54:50 <Kiba> lfm: not at all
349 2011-04-10 06:54:54 <Kiba> I can laugh
350 2011-04-10 06:55:00 <Kiba> I just don't think 90% of jokes are funny
351 2011-04-10 06:55:10 <sss> 90%?
352 2011-04-10 06:55:22 <sss> i was thinking sad and bitter :P
353 2011-04-10 06:55:23 <Kiba> make that 99% of typical funny jokes
354 2011-04-10 06:55:32 <lfm> yes well most humour is about the misfortunes of others, the main exception is puns
355 2011-04-10 06:55:48 <Kiba> lfm: I duck from misfortune
356 2011-04-10 06:55:50 <lfm> and of course puns are the lowest form of humour
357 2011-04-10 06:55:57 <sss> kiba where are you from pal?
358 2011-04-10 06:55:59 <Kiba> I don't laugh at misfortune, I close my eyes
359 2011-04-10 06:56:09 <Kiba> sss: where was I born or where do I live?
360 2011-04-10 06:56:20 <sss> wherever
361 2011-04-10 06:56:26 <Kiba> USA
362 2011-04-10 06:56:32 <sss> Sounds exciting
363 2011-04-10 06:56:33 <Kiba> nowhere, USA
364 2011-04-10 06:56:35 <sss> Im from the USA too
365 2011-04-10 06:56:36 <lfm> I came from my mother's belly, didn't you?
366 2011-04-10 06:56:42 <sss> ;/
367 2011-04-10 06:56:48 <sss> I knew you'd answer like that
368 2011-04-10 06:57:23 <sss> Fits into your profile of some sort :P4
369 2011-04-10 06:57:25 <sss> sort*
370 2011-04-10 06:57:25 <lfm> you didn't! you are an AI?
371 2011-04-10 06:57:30 <Kiba> there's an anime that make laugh a lot
372 2011-04-10 06:57:40 <sss> what anime?
373 2011-04-10 06:57:45 <Kiba> I forgot the name
374 2011-04-10 06:57:49 <Kiba> but it involves time travel
375 2011-04-10 06:57:56 <sss> >.<
376 2011-04-10 06:58:00 <sss> you dont even remember the name
377 2011-04-10 06:58:09 <Kiba> but it made me laugh
378 2011-04-10 06:58:12 <sss> lol
379 2011-04-10 06:58:22 <sss> what about movies?
380 2011-04-10 06:58:24 <LightRider> Kiba and lfm are siblings!
381 2011-04-10 06:58:27 <lfm> I like Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Best movie of all time I think
382 2011-04-10 06:58:28 <sss> any mainstreams movies you found funny?
383 2011-04-10 06:58:35 <Kiba> sss: I dislike most movies
384 2011-04-10 06:58:39 <sss> >.<
385 2011-04-10 06:58:51 <Kiba> people laugh at embrassing situtation
386 2011-04-10 06:58:55 <Kiba> I duck
387 2011-04-10 06:58:58 <sss> wow
388 2011-04-10 06:58:59 <Kiba> so they're not funny to me
389 2011-04-10 06:59:00 <sss> uhhh
390 2011-04-10 06:59:08 <sss> whats the last good movie youve seen?
391 2011-04-10 06:59:13 <LightRider> Head buried in sand, can't laugh
392 2011-04-10 06:59:14 <Kiba> hmm
393 2011-04-10 06:59:23 <lfm> sss: like I said Kiba is a sad and bitter person
394 2011-04-10 06:59:30 <Kiba> sss: hmm
395 2011-04-10 06:59:36 <Kiba> well
396 2011-04-10 06:59:45 <Kiba> Dark Knight
397 2011-04-10 06:59:51 <sss> hmm
398 2011-04-10 07:00:02 <sss> whats the last good comedy movie youve seen
399 2011-04-10 07:00:02 <lfm> you thot Drak Knight was funny?
400 2011-04-10 07:00:07 <lfm> Dark
401 2011-04-10 07:00:15 <Kiba> sss: none that I remember of
402 2011-04-10 07:00:18 <Kiba> lfm: no.
403 2011-04-10 07:00:21 <Kiba> but it's a good movie
404 2011-04-10 07:00:25 <sss> impressive
405 2011-04-10 07:00:48 <Kiba> there's a comedy that lovely but it never made me laugh
406 2011-04-10 07:00:50 <LightRider> Zeitgeist Moving Forward is a great movie, I recommend it highly
407 2011-04-10 07:00:58 <lfm> Kiba ya sad and bitter but good, not as good as the Grail movie tho
408 2011-04-10 07:01:05 <sss> Kiba
409 2011-04-10 07:01:09 <Kiba> lfm: I like Star Trek
410 2011-04-10 07:01:12 <Kiba> but I never laugh once
411 2011-04-10 07:01:17 <sss> Did you read the meditations of marcus aurelius?
412 2011-04-10 07:01:32 <lfm> Kiba: you didnt laugh at the trouble with tribbles?
413 2011-04-10 07:01:41 <Kiba> no
414 2011-04-10 07:01:52 <sss> kiba was that a yes to me or lfm
415 2011-04-10 07:02:01 <lfm> sad and bitter, gotta be, no other possible explanation
416 2011-04-10 07:02:13 <sss> i mean no
417 2011-04-10 07:02:15 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * re2494ef6f85a supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/ (otcstyle.css vieworderbook.php): OTCWebsite: show marker when results are filtered. preserve filter option selections until cleared. http://tinyurl.com/3hjlo2c
418 2011-04-10 07:02:21 <sss> was that a no to me or him
419 2011-04-10 07:02:48 <Kiba> I am not sad and bitter
420 2011-04-10 07:02:55 <Kiba> I just have asperger syndrome
421 2011-04-10 07:02:59 <Kiba> high functioning
422 2011-04-10 07:03:09 <sss> well now
423 2011-04-10 07:03:16 <sss> that explains why you dont like comedy
424 2011-04-10 07:03:21 <LightRider> aka license to be a dick
425 2011-04-10 07:03:22 <Kiba> how?
426 2011-04-10 07:03:32 <Kiba> license to be what dick?
427 2011-04-10 07:03:47 <sss> due to your lack of experience w/ comedical social situations
428 2011-04-10 07:03:56 <Kiba> no, I did laugh
429 2011-04-10 07:03:56 <lfm> hmm, sounds pretty sad to me
430 2011-04-10 07:03:58 <Kiba> at that one anime
431 2011-04-10 07:03:58 <sss> you dont find humor in situations most people find humorous
432 2011-04-10 07:04:02 <Kiba> because it's harilious
433 2011-04-10 07:04:21 <LightRider> asperger's is on the autism spectrum
434 2011-04-10 07:04:27 <Kiba> LightRider: so?
435 2011-04-10 07:04:53 <Kiba> you just don't like me thinking your idea is a bunch of hogwash or mumbo jumbo
436 2011-04-10 07:04:55 <sss> kiba is aspergers the reason why you're in ths chatroom @ 3:00 am on sunday
437 2011-04-10 07:04:56 <sss> ?
438 2011-04-10 07:05:00 <Kiba> sss: no
439 2011-04-10 07:05:12 <Kiba> it was just an excuse as to why I did not find most situation funny
440 2011-04-10 07:05:18 <Kiba> but truly, I have no idea
441 2011-04-10 07:05:23 <LightRider> i don't like that you can't better articulate your argument other than saying "it's stupid"
442 2011-04-10 07:05:23 <lfm> its only 3 am in a tiny part of the world
443 2011-04-10 07:05:36 <Kiba> LightRider: than you will have to accept that
444 2011-04-10 07:05:38 <sss> im sure kiba's part of that tiny part of the world
445 2011-04-10 07:05:39 <LightRider> that kind of statement doesn't advance discussion or argument of any kind
446 2011-04-10 07:05:42 <sss> unless hes from Cali
447 2011-04-10 07:05:54 <sss> Because everyone in the world lives in NJ, NY or California
448 2011-04-10 07:05:57 <sss> or maybe montreal
449 2011-04-10 07:06:01 <sss> with the occasional london
450 2011-04-10 07:06:05 <Kiba> LightRider: I advanced arguments but you don't accept them. So I decided to call your ideas stupid.
451 2011-04-10 07:06:06 <lfm> sss actually most people are not from there
452 2011-04-10 07:06:15 <LightRider> so i am forced to believe that you have little to no comprehension of what the idea is, so are therefor incapable of rendering any type of informed opinion
453 2011-04-10 07:06:17 fimp has joined
454 2011-04-10 07:06:22 <sss> all people in the world are from those 5 locations
455 2011-04-10 07:06:31 <sss> if theyre from somewhere else
456 2011-04-10 07:06:36 <sss> theyre confused
457 2011-04-10 07:06:52 <Kiba> LightRider: I don't need to take serious an idea that's only in the movies and not being executed. When you have a little town with all the new fanged tech, I believe it
458 2011-04-10 07:06:54 <LightRider> but I gave reasons why I didn't accept them, didn't I?
459 2011-04-10 07:07:21 <lfm> sss ra eyou one of those americans that couldnt point at china on a globe?
460 2011-04-10 07:07:22 <LightRider> Well then that's a wholly different opinion than "it's stupid"
461 2011-04-10 07:07:38 <LightRider> so be consistent
462 2011-04-10 07:07:39 <Kiba> LightRider: and that's why your ideas is stupid
463 2011-04-10 07:07:48 <Kiba> it's stupid, mkay?
464 2011-04-10 07:07:49 <sss> China? that's below russia right?
465 2011-04-10 07:07:55 <sss> i'm 60% sure i could ID it
466 2011-04-10 07:08:07 <sss> but you have to realize 1 in 4 americans dont have maps
467 2011-04-10 07:08:27 <lfm> ya between japan and russia with mongolia in there for fun
468 2011-04-10 07:08:27 <Kiba> I don't have time to debate every kooky ideas on the map.
469 2011-04-10 07:08:38 <LightRider> i'm not angry about your opinioni, I just don't want you to act like an ignorant person who can't articulate an argument
470 2011-04-10 07:08:54 <Kiba> LightRider: you called me ignorant? YOu called my knowledge of economic irrevlant
471 2011-04-10 07:09:02 <sss> Kiba
472 2011-04-10 07:09:06 <sss> whats your knowledge of economic
473 2011-04-10 07:09:16 <Kiba> sss: he just say technology will take care of everything
474 2011-04-10 07:09:21 <sss> that proves that the zeitegeist movement can nver work
475 2011-04-10 07:09:28 <sss> However rediculous said movement is
476 2011-04-10 07:09:35 <sss> which is extremely
477 2011-04-10 07:09:41 <Kiba> sss: no, I don't take an ideas that just talk and talk.
478 2011-04-10 07:09:51 <Kiba> wanna do crazy ideas? execute. Don't just talk, execute.
479 2011-04-10 07:10:21 <sss> It could work?
480 2011-04-10 07:10:24 <lfm> bah easier and more fun to just talk, safer too
481 2011-04-10 07:10:29 <sss> maybe theyre just too lazy to execute?
482 2011-04-10 07:10:31 <LightRider> what does your knowledge of economics tell you about how to solve technical problems?
483 2011-04-10 07:10:32 <Kiba> sss: when there is a town, I will investigate.
484 2011-04-10 07:10:36 <sss> :)
485 2011-04-10 07:10:39 <sss> Well
486 2011-04-10 07:10:48 <sss> Everyone I've known who've promoted that movement
487 2011-04-10 07:10:50 <Kiba> LightRider: because economics tell us what technical solutions will succeed, love
488 2011-04-10 07:10:53 <sss> have been major potheads
489 2011-04-10 07:10:58 <sss> so I must assume theyre too lazy
490 2011-04-10 07:11:02 <sss> to "execute"
491 2011-04-10 07:11:34 <sss> however when I go to the venus project website
492 2011-04-10 07:11:36 <Kiba> knowledge isn't something you compartmenize and said "oh, they're not irrevelant"
493 2011-04-10 07:11:43 <lfm> well 90% of the people on irc like to just talk, the other 10% just listen
494 2011-04-10 07:11:44 <sss> I do like the fany structures they've got on there
495 2011-04-10 07:11:45 <sss> :)
496 2011-04-10 07:11:56 <LightRider> really? so everything that is commercially successful and viable today are the best technical solutions we have?
497 2011-04-10 07:11:57 <sss> i love listening to myself talk
498 2011-04-10 07:11:58 <Kiba> sss: I believe it when they have fancy structures I can see in reality
499 2011-04-10 07:12:11 <Kiba> LightRider: no, that's not what I mean
500 2011-04-10 07:12:18 <Kiba> there's no such thing as a free lunch.
501 2011-04-10 07:12:26 <sss> Kiba
502 2011-04-10 07:12:34 <sss> you do need to take into consideration
503 2011-04-10 07:12:39 <sss> the wealthiest individuals lose
504 2011-04-10 07:12:41 <lfm> I had a free lunch once
505 2011-04-10 07:12:42 <sss> in that movement
506 2011-04-10 07:12:54 <Kiba> sss: I don't care about what the wealthiest or the poorest have to gain or lose.
507 2011-04-10 07:13:01 <sss> wealthiest individuals control the world
508 2011-04-10 07:13:10 <sss> they would never allow a project like that to take off
509 2011-04-10 07:13:14 <Kiba> satoshi is the wealthiest individual in the bitcoin economy
510 2011-04-10 07:13:15 <sss> nobody wants to give up their wealth
511 2011-04-10 07:13:18 <LightRider> no, there's no profit on a free lunch, which is what you really mean when give that cliched response
512 2011-04-10 07:13:28 <Kiba> sss: you mean relative wealth
513 2011-04-10 07:13:35 <sss> sure
514 2011-04-10 07:13:38 <Kiba> LightRider: wrong. Everything cost.
515 2011-04-10 07:13:41 <sss> those people would destroy the project
516 2011-04-10 07:13:47 <LightRider> and if there's no profit, there's no reason to promote it
517 2011-04-10 07:13:49 <sss> Just like the reason why cancer hasnt been cured
518 2011-04-10 07:13:51 <Kiba> sss: nice project. I believe it when I see it.
519 2011-04-10 07:14:03 <sss> There are pattens preventing necessary research
520 2011-04-10 07:14:05 <Kiba> profit is just when you get ahead, LightRider
521 2011-04-10 07:14:07 <sss> if they cured it
522 2011-04-10 07:14:13 <sss> too many people would lose money
523 2011-04-10 07:14:15 <lfm> well I think I got a profit of a lunch out of the free lunch I had that time
524 2011-04-10 07:14:30 <Kiba> lfm: well, somebody gottach pay for that free lunch.
525 2011-04-10 07:14:39 <LightRider> there is no getting ahead
526 2011-04-10 07:14:44 <Kiba> sss: I don't give a damn about money and who's the wealthiest
527 2011-04-10 07:14:45 <LightRider> that's the lie
528 2011-04-10 07:14:49 <Kiba> Satoshi Nakmoto is the wealthiest
529 2011-04-10 07:14:50 <Kiba> so?
530 2011-04-10 07:15:02 <lfm> kiba ya, its not as if food grows on trees, oh wait it does
531 2011-04-10 07:15:06 <sss> I'm telling you why that project
532 2011-04-10 07:15:08 <sss> would never work out
533 2011-04-10 07:15:11 <sss> or get anywhere
534 2011-04-10 07:15:18 <LightRider> yes, everyone would lose all their money, but gain everything they would need to live...
535 2011-04-10 07:15:21 <sss> they'd be stopped by a powerful group of individuals
536 2011-04-10 07:15:22 <sss> :)
537 2011-04-10 07:15:24 <Kiba> sss: when somebody reject the study of economics, they're potheads.
538 2011-04-10 07:15:24 <LightRider> i suppose that IS a tough choice
539 2011-04-10 07:15:39 <Kiba> LightRider: no. I want more things. more goods. more services.
540 2011-04-10 07:15:41 <sss> lightrider
541 2011-04-10 07:15:45 <Kiba> I don't care about relative wealth
542 2011-04-10 07:15:48 <sss> heres the problem
543 2011-04-10 07:15:50 <Kiba> I care about absolute wealth
544 2011-04-10 07:15:50 <LightRider> are you asserting that I am under the influence of psychotropic drugs?
545 2011-04-10 07:15:55 <sss> I like being wealthier then overs
546 2011-04-10 07:16:03 <sss> I wouldn't want to give it up
547 2011-04-10 07:16:09 <lfm> LightRider: and if not, why not?
548 2011-04-10 07:16:14 <LightRider> you've been socially engineered into wanting more things
549 2011-04-10 07:16:17 <LightRider> but you don't need more things
550 2011-04-10 07:16:23 <sss> but i want more things
551 2011-04-10 07:16:26 <sss> more more and more
552 2011-04-10 07:16:27 <Kiba> LightRider: when you make assertion like this, you're really a nutcase
553 2011-04-10 07:16:37 <lfm> you dont need more things, you just need more drugs
554 2011-04-10 07:16:48 <sss> lol
555 2011-04-10 07:16:57 <LightRider> i don't use drugs
556 2011-04-10 07:16:57 <sss> kiba
557 2011-04-10 07:17:00 <Kiba> my economic knowledge is a bunch of hogwash?
558 2011-04-10 07:17:02 <sss> you dont find lightrider to be funny?
559 2011-04-10 07:17:04 taco_the_paco has joined
560 2011-04-10 07:17:04 taco_the_paco has quit (Changing host)
561 2011-04-10 07:17:04 taco_the_paco has joined
562 2011-04-10 07:17:17 <Kiba> sss: time for me to ignore his rants
563 2011-04-10 07:17:34 <lfm> LightRider: see
564 2011-04-10 07:17:52 <sss> but you dont find his rants funny?
565 2011-04-10 07:17:55 <LightRider> well, if it is a bunch of self referential nonsense that ultimately argues for a small group of people holding wealth and therefor authority over the majority, then it is hogwash at best
566 2011-04-10 07:18:02 <Kiba> sss: anyway, I guess socially engineered is plausible. It's documented, anyway.
567 2011-04-10 07:18:32 <sss> but you find what he's saying to be insane right? you dont find humor in that?
568 2011-04-10 07:18:37 <lfm> LightRider: well I think people like me should have all the wealth
569 2011-04-10 07:18:42 <LightRider> if you didn't want more, you wouldn't buy more, and you wouldn't feed the unlimited growth paradigm that will ultimately self destruct
570 2011-04-10 07:18:55 <Kiba> sss: irrational people are irrational.
571 2011-04-10 07:19:04 <sss> "unlimited growth paradigm that will ultimately self destruct"
572 2011-04-10 07:19:12 <Kiba> sss: what the fuck?
573 2011-04-10 07:19:14 <sss> do you need a college degree to make a statement like that?
574 2011-04-10 07:19:23 <lfm> well strictly speaking irrational people are purple flamingos
575 2011-04-10 07:19:23 <sss> Kiba I'm quoting lightrider
576 2011-04-10 07:19:42 <Kiba> sss: what's wrong with unlimited growth?
577 2011-04-10 07:19:46 <Kiba> we should have unlimited growth!
578 2011-04-10 07:19:48 <Kiba> paradise!
579 2011-04-10 07:19:59 <Kiba> assuming it's possible
580 2011-04-10 07:20:08 <sss> "which will ultimately self destruct"
581 2011-04-10 07:20:14 <Kiba> I am more for wealth, more things
582 2011-04-10 07:20:16 <Kiba> more goodies
583 2011-04-10 07:20:18 <Kiba> more human love
584 2011-04-10 07:20:23 <Kiba> immortality
585 2011-04-10 07:20:24 <Kiba> and so on
586 2011-04-10 07:20:41 <sss> Im big on immortality
587 2011-04-10 07:20:44 <sss> I love the idea
588 2011-04-10 07:20:49 <sss> I wish I could be immortal
589 2011-04-10 07:20:50 <sss> :)
590 2011-04-10 07:20:53 <LightRider> so you believe in breaking the laws of physics...and I'm the guy with stupid ideas...
591 2011-04-10 07:20:58 <Kiba> we should live to the heat death of the universe
592 2011-04-10 07:21:01 <Kiba> and then escape!
593 2011-04-10 07:21:19 <sss> LightRider: Are you A. a pothead or B. a high school dropout or C. a college failure?
594 2011-04-10 07:21:30 <Kiba> I am a college failure
595 2011-04-10 07:21:31 <Kiba> kinda
596 2011-04-10 07:21:36 <lfm> sss no need for name calling
597 2011-04-10 07:21:42 <sss> I'm not name calling
598 2011-04-10 07:21:53 <sss> Im asking which group
599 2011-04-10 07:21:58 <sss> he bests fits under
600 2011-04-10 07:22:00 <Kiba> a grown man told me that working for next to nothing is evil
601 2011-04-10 07:22:02 <LightRider> never taken drugs, did awesome in highschool, college wasn't right for me
602 2011-04-10 07:22:03 <Kiba> he's employed
603 2011-04-10 07:22:05 <Kiba> have children
604 2011-04-10 07:22:06 <Kiba> and all
605 2011-04-10 07:22:09 <lfm> he might be a politician
606 2011-04-10 07:22:15 <sss> ;/
607 2011-04-10 07:22:19 <sss> a politician?
608 2011-04-10 07:22:26 <Kiba> I tell him "Well, my employer gave me food and water and shelter. What did YOU provide?"
609 2011-04-10 07:22:48 <Kiba> and that's surround a theoritical argument
610 2011-04-10 07:22:53 <lfm> my employer just gives me money
611 2011-04-10 07:22:53 <sss> lfm what type of politician
612 2011-04-10 07:22:55 <sss> :)
613 2011-04-10 07:22:55 <Kiba> totally different attitude toward life
614 2011-04-10 07:23:19 <Kiba> I am like a crockroach, even if I am a failure
615 2011-04-10 07:23:21 <lfm> sss I dont know, I dont understand polititcians
616 2011-04-10 07:23:26 <LightRider> by the time I was in college, I recognized the illegitamcy of the system and realized it's not a system to help promote
617 2011-04-10 07:23:37 <sss> LightRider
618 2011-04-10 07:23:43 <sss> thats the difference
619 2011-04-10 07:23:55 <sss> some people realize its not ment to promote
620 2011-04-10 07:23:58 <sss> but they go through it
621 2011-04-10 07:24:07 <sss> and drive 2009 bmw 528 xi's
622 2011-04-10 07:24:09 <LightRider> such is their choice
623 2011-04-10 07:24:11 <sss> others go through it
624 2011-04-10 07:24:13 <LightRider> I promote a better way
625 2011-04-10 07:24:15 <sss> or dont*
626 2011-04-10 07:24:20 <sss> then fail
627 2011-04-10 07:24:20 <LightRider> for all people, not just me
628 2011-04-10 07:24:23 <Kiba> great ideas are that...just great ideas
629 2011-04-10 07:24:26 <sss> and then get some menial job
630 2011-04-10 07:24:28 <Kiba> I believe it when I see it
631 2011-04-10 07:24:33 <sss> and then drive 1997 honda civic's
632 2011-04-10 07:24:39 <sss> am i right or am i right
633 2011-04-10 07:24:39 <Kiba> sss: gimme menial jobs!
634 2011-04-10 07:24:43 <LightRider> science doesn't ask for belief
635 2011-04-10 07:24:46 <lfm> hey civics are cool
636 2011-04-10 07:24:56 <sss> kiba
637 2011-04-10 07:24:56 <LightRider> just effort
638 2011-04-10 07:24:58 <Kiba> but I am too lazy to search for jobs
639 2011-04-10 07:25:00 <sss> i can give you a menial job
640 2011-04-10 07:25:01 <sss> if you want
641 2011-04-10 07:25:01 <Kiba> rather have bitcoin
642 2011-04-10 07:25:11 <Kiba> jobs
643 2011-04-10 07:25:17 <sss> kiba
644 2011-04-10 07:25:22 <sss> I'll employ you
645 2011-04-10 07:25:24 <sss> to do stuff
646 2011-04-10 07:25:25 <sss> for me
647 2011-04-10 07:25:27 <Kiba> like what?
648 2011-04-10 07:25:31 <sss> hmmm
649 2011-04-10 07:25:34 <sss> personal shopper?
650 2011-04-10 07:25:38 <sss> but m groceries?
651 2011-04-10 07:25:41 <lfm> most bmws are pretty ugly actually I think
652 2011-04-10 07:25:42 <sss> deliver them to me?
653 2011-04-10 07:25:54 <sss> buy my
654 2011-04-10 07:25:54 <Kiba> you gimme bitcoin to buy gorcery for you?
655 2011-04-10 07:25:59 <Kiba> I think you have to gimme bitcoin first
656 2011-04-10 07:26:00 <LightRider> economics asks for belief
657 2011-04-10 07:26:02 <sss> I'd pay you in cash
658 2011-04-10 07:26:05 <sss> ;o
659 2011-04-10 07:26:13 <Kiba> I don't trust ya
660 2011-04-10 07:26:20 <sss> i trust me
661 2011-04-10 07:26:27 <Kiba> but I don't know you
662 2011-04-10 07:26:37 <sss> sounds good :O
663 2011-04-10 07:26:41 <lfm> never trust someone who drives a bmw
664 2011-04-10 07:26:57 <sss> lfm i have my eye on you -.^
665 2011-04-10 07:26:59 <sss> like such
666 2011-04-10 07:27:05 <sss> -.^ -.^ -.^
667 2011-04-10 07:27:10 <LightRider> that's why economics is indistinguishable from religion
668 2011-04-10 07:27:18 <sss> lightrider
669 2011-04-10 07:27:18 * Kiba would drive a car until its engine off
670 2011-04-10 07:27:24 <sss> we're on a new subject
671 2011-04-10 07:27:30 <LightRider> they all have their holy writers, their patron saints, their multiple sects
672 2011-04-10 07:27:35 <Kiba> ugly cars? who fricking car
673 2011-04-10 07:27:38 <Kiba> it's just a damn car
674 2011-04-10 07:27:45 <sss> kiba
675 2011-04-10 07:27:48 <LightRider> and their disasterous results
676 2011-04-10 07:27:52 <lfm> kiba, naw, some cars are great
677 2011-04-10 07:27:54 <Kiba> fuel efficency, safety...and air conditioning
678 2011-04-10 07:27:55 <sss> can i assume you either ride a bike or use a skateboard?
679 2011-04-10 07:28:01 <Kiba> sss: no
680 2011-04-10 07:28:13 <sss> then you drive a toyota /argument
681 2011-04-10 07:28:17 <Kiba> I would drive a car I have until its engine drop off..or until I can ride bikes
682 2011-04-10 07:28:34 <sss> dont worry pal i cant ride a bike either
683 2011-04-10 07:28:34 <Kiba> sss: drive a fancy car or good looking car. More power to you.
684 2011-04-10 07:28:35 <LightRider> but luckily, like religion, economics will also fade away with time
685 2011-04-10 07:28:40 <Kiba> don't care
686 2011-04-10 07:28:44 <Kiba> people have different hobby
687 2011-04-10 07:28:51 <Kiba> I have bitcoin
688 2011-04-10 07:28:59 <Kiba> and game
689 2011-04-10 07:29:05 <sss> game?
690 2011-04-10 07:29:18 <lfm> farmville?
691 2011-04-10 07:29:39 <sss> ;p
692 2011-04-10 07:30:23 <Kiba> game development
693 2011-04-10 07:30:32 <Kiba> I am trying to crowdfund a game
694 2011-04-10 07:30:38 <lfm> oh like angry birds then
695 2011-04-10 07:30:41 <LightRider> I have a friend doing doctoral work in trying to get people with Autism and the like into the workforce
696 2011-04-10 07:30:55 <sss> LOL
697 2011-04-10 07:31:05 <lfm> LightRider: ya theres a lot of money in that
698 2011-04-10 07:31:10 <sss> i saw that thread on the forum
699 2011-04-10 07:31:18 <sss> I didnt understand the crowfund concept
700 2011-04-10 07:31:32 <Kiba> sss: well, you wanna a game?
701 2011-04-10 07:31:48 <lfm> sss: you get everyone to donate 10 cents and pretty soon you have a billion dollars
702 2011-04-10 07:31:49 <LightRider> The general issue is the general social interaction problems that they face
703 2011-04-10 07:32:13 <Kiba> build it and they will come is not how it works
704 2011-04-10 07:32:14 <LightRider> but they are very capable in doing certain tasks, and having a great wealth of knowledge in certain subjects
705 2011-04-10 07:32:18 <sss> well you wanted to raise 1200 bitcoins?
706 2011-04-10 07:32:23 <sss> what would they go towards?
707 2011-04-10 07:32:24 <Kiba> it took them angry birds 9 year to be succesful
708 2011-04-10 07:32:33 <Kiba> sss: rainy day fund. So I can live a month
709 2011-04-10 07:32:45 <Kiba> plus additional VPS if needed be
710 2011-04-10 07:32:50 <Kiba> but it's jsut a rainy day fund.
711 2011-04-10 07:33:08 <Kiba> but when ya have only a month to live on a rainy fund, you tend to work hard too
712 2011-04-10 07:33:11 <LightRider> If you are successful in your game development, he might be interested in you as a case stud
713 2011-04-10 07:33:13 <LightRider> study
714 2011-04-10 07:33:14 <sss> angry birds didnt take 9 years??
715 2011-04-10 07:33:28 <sss> you can live off of 1200 bitcoins
716 2011-04-10 07:33:30 <Kiba> it takes them 9 years to become an "overnight" success
717 2011-04-10 07:33:30 <sss> for a month?
718 2011-04-10 07:33:33 <lfm> sss 12 years?
719 2011-04-10 07:33:46 <sss> the wikipedia page says 2009?
720 2011-04-10 07:33:52 <Kiba> sss: 400 dollars for rent. 50 dollars for internet. 120 dollars for gas..
721 2011-04-10 07:34:01 <Kiba> some amount for electricty
722 2011-04-10 07:34:04 <Kiba> it all adds up
723 2011-04-10 07:34:13 <Kiba> I think my estimate are too low
724 2011-04-10 07:34:22 <Kiba> and I will have to resist fast foods
725 2011-04-10 07:34:26 <Kiba> fast foods are expensive
726 2011-04-10 07:34:27 <sss> ive spent 1200 on ritz crackers in the past year
727 2011-04-10 07:34:28 <sss> ;(
728 2011-04-10 07:34:31 <Kiba> better to cook food homemade
729 2011-04-10 07:34:40 <sss> now i feel bad
730 2011-04-10 07:34:48 <sss> but how do the people who donate to the game
731 2011-04-10 07:34:49 <sss> benefit
732 2011-04-10 07:34:52 <sss> monetarilly
733 2011-04-10 07:34:54 <sss> or they dont
734 2011-04-10 07:34:59 <Kiba> they get goodies
735 2011-04-10 07:35:02 <Kiba> that nobody else will get
736 2011-04-10 07:35:05 <sss> goodies in the game
737 2011-04-10 07:35:06 <sss> right?
738 2011-04-10 07:35:14 <sss> what if the game is horrible
739 2011-04-10 07:35:15 <Kiba> not exactly
740 2011-04-10 07:35:16 <sss> ?
741 2011-04-10 07:35:24 <Kiba> everyone can buy them. it's just an reward for pledging
742 2011-04-10 07:35:35 <Kiba> sss: they don't have to pay
743 2011-04-10 07:35:44 <Kiba> but if my game is good, their reputation is ruined
744 2011-04-10 07:35:44 <sss> what do you mean?
745 2011-04-10 07:35:49 <Kiba> they pledge
746 2011-04-10 07:35:52 <sss> oh
747 2011-04-10 07:35:54 <Kiba> it's a promise
748 2011-04-10 07:36:01 <sss> i see its only pledges
749 2011-04-10 07:36:06 <sss> upon when the game is finished
750 2011-04-10 07:36:17 <Kiba> they're welcome to pay at any time.
751 2011-04-10 07:36:25 <sss> I see
752 2011-04-10 07:36:34 <sss> but they dont stand to profit @ all
753 2011-04-10 07:36:43 <sss> so its people doing this out of the goodness of their heart
754 2011-04-10 07:37:21 <Kiba> they get the game
755 2011-04-10 07:37:30 <Kiba> they're paying for the product + exclusive access
756 2011-04-10 07:37:32 <Kiba> it works
757 2011-04-10 07:37:42 <Kiba> plus it's public domain anyway
758 2011-04-10 07:37:59 <Kiba> if they want to get a "return" on their investment, they are welcome to try
759 2011-04-10 07:38:02 <Kiba> I don't give a damn.
760 2011-04-10 07:38:13 <Kiba> I get paid to do cool shit
761 2011-04-10 07:38:21 <sss> well
762 2011-04-10 07:38:28 <sss> what other games have you made
763 2011-04-10 07:38:28 <Kiba> any more profit is smooth icing
764 2011-04-10 07:38:34 <Kiba> which gimme money to do even more cool shit
765 2011-04-10 07:38:35 <Kiba> jstet
766 2011-04-10 07:38:40 <Kiba> it's almost complete
767 2011-04-10 07:38:47 <sss> do you have a game
768 2011-04-10 07:38:50 <sss> that i could play now
769 2011-04-10 07:38:52 <sss> on my mac
770 2011-04-10 07:38:54 <Kiba> it's more of a technology learning project than a game development project
771 2011-04-10 07:39:01 <Kiba> sss: just need your chromium
772 2011-04-10 07:39:12 <Kiba> or google chrome
773 2011-04-10 07:39:25 <sss> nevermind then
774 2011-04-10 07:39:28 <sss> i want games
775 2011-04-10 07:39:29 <sss> ~!
776 2011-04-10 07:39:33 <Kiba> you need a modern browser
777 2011-04-10 07:39:39 <sss> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5266.0
778 2011-04-10 07:39:42 <sss> i just read this thread
779 2011-04-10 07:39:43 <Kiba> firefox 4 doesn't support a technology
780 2011-04-10 07:39:49 <Kiba> so I have to fix that
781 2011-04-10 07:39:57 <Kiba> so firefox 4 users can play too!
782 2011-04-10 07:40:00 <sss> Future Implications Google is the Player to Watch Google acquires Social Gold, a virtual currency platform (August 2010) Google acquires Zetawire to look after NFC payments (December 2010) Google releases BitcoinJ, a bitcoin client for Java (March 2011) Google now has 750 staff in payments division!
783 2011-04-10 07:40:00 <Kiba> it's almost complete
784 2011-04-10 07:40:03 <Kiba> so there's bugs
785 2011-04-10 07:40:04 <Kiba> and so on
786 2011-04-10 07:40:06 <sss> ok ;o
787 2011-04-10 07:40:10 <sss> so wait
788 2011-04-10 07:40:19 <sss> does google have some type of connection to btc
789 2011-04-10 07:40:28 <sss> in terms of
790 2011-04-10 07:40:32 <Kiba> no. it's just a google engineer's project
791 2011-04-10 07:40:33 <sss> i dont even know what
792 2011-04-10 07:40:37 <sss> oh
793 2011-04-10 07:40:45 <Kiba> conspricy theory?
794 2011-04-10 07:40:54 <sss> i remember reading google employees could do their own stuff :P
795 2011-04-10 07:40:56 <sss> no
796 2011-04-10 07:41:01 <Kiba> Satoshi Nakamoto is ripe for spectulation
797 2011-04-10 07:41:05 <Kiba> 20% project and ya
798 2011-04-10 07:41:08 <sss> not a conspiracy ;P
799 2011-04-10 07:41:24 <sss> I was wondering if they were putting something together
800 2011-04-10 07:41:29 <sss> to make BTC more mainstream
801 2011-04-10 07:41:39 <Kiba> they may
802 2011-04-10 07:41:43 <Kiba> remember, the google engineer
803 2011-04-10 07:41:49 <Kiba> have 20%
804 2011-04-10 07:41:54 <Kiba> to work on this prjoect
805 2011-04-10 07:41:58 <sss> yeah
806 2011-04-10 07:42:04 <sss> 20% time
807 2011-04-10 07:42:06 <sss> or something
808 2011-04-10 07:42:14 <sss> but google needs to approve it or something
809 2011-04-10 07:42:19 <Kiba> they did
810 2011-04-10 07:42:19 <sss> I came across btc
811 2011-04-10 07:42:26 <Kiba> they did all the officially thing
812 2011-04-10 07:42:31 <sss> through advertising for a game called dragon tales
813 2011-04-10 07:42:32 joepie92 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
814 2011-04-10 07:42:44 <sss> everything i find out about btc is more and more fascinating
815 2011-04-10 07:42:45 <sss> i guess
816 2011-04-10 07:42:48 <Kiba> sss: never played it, my comptuer not made to play it
817 2011-04-10 07:43:00 <Kiba> bitcoin sells itself! with a little push
818 2011-04-10 07:43:07 <sss> :)
819 2011-04-10 07:43:23 <sss> kiba
820 2011-04-10 07:43:29 <Kiba> my game doesn't excactly have the viral factor
821 2011-04-10 07:43:32 <sss> how can you live off of 1200 a month
822 2011-04-10 07:43:36 <sss> I dont understand it
823 2011-04-10 07:43:45 <Kiba> you can convert them to dollars, ya?
824 2011-04-10 07:43:50 <sss> do you live in nebraska?
825 2011-04-10 07:43:53 <Kiba> sss: no
826 2011-04-10 07:44:01 <Kiba> I have 450 BTC
827 2011-04-10 07:44:09 <Kiba> add 1200 BTC
828 2011-04-10 07:44:19 <Kiba> but 1200 BTC is probably barely enough to get by
829 2011-04-10 07:44:29 <sss> for a month
830 2011-04-10 07:44:30 <sss> >.>
831 2011-04-10 07:44:40 <sss> thats nothing
832 2011-04-10 07:44:44 <sss> no idea how you get by
833 2011-04-10 07:44:45 <sss> tbh
834 2011-04-10 07:46:45 trievalot has joined
835 2011-04-10 07:46:55 <Kiba> I lived in my parents' basement
836 2011-04-10 07:47:01 <trievalot> Hey
837 2011-04-10 07:47:12 <Kiba> that's my serect ;)
838 2011-04-10 07:47:13 <trievalot> anywhere i can get the miner for OSX?
839 2011-04-10 07:47:14 <trievalot> 10.6.6
840 2011-04-10 07:47:34 <jrabbit> poclbm works
841 2011-04-10 07:47:37 <sss> oh
842 2011-04-10 07:47:45 <sss> that explains everything
843 2011-04-10 07:47:55 <sss> your parents charge you rent?
844 2011-04-10 07:48:02 <sss> i guess they dont believe in btc?
845 2011-04-10 07:48:06 <JFK911> Do you need to install an OpenCL layer on OSX? Anyone know?
846 2011-04-10 07:48:18 <JFK911> Or does it come with the OS/Video drivers?
847 2011-04-10 07:48:23 <jrabbit> JFK911: lol....
848 2011-04-10 07:48:28 <jrabbit> 10.6 has opencl.
849 2011-04-10 07:48:30 <Kiba> sss: no. I freeload.
850 2011-04-10 07:48:39 <Kiba> like I said
851 2011-04-10 07:48:40 <JFK911> jrabbit: thanks (I personally don't know.)
852 2011-04-10 07:48:45 <Kiba> 1200 BTC is for rainy day fund
853 2011-04-10 07:48:50 <jrabbit> its advertised :P
854 2011-04-10 07:48:55 <sss> so
855 2011-04-10 07:48:58 <LightRider> I get it, anyone who disagrees with your pet philosophy HAS to be on drugs because you couldn't POSSIBLY be wrong about something you believe in.
856 2011-04-10 07:49:05 <sss> lightrider
857 2011-04-10 07:49:06 <sss> Wtf
858 2011-04-10 07:49:07 <Kiba> yes, I am trying to save
859 2011-04-10 07:49:15 <sss> you havent said anything for 40 mins
860 2011-04-10 07:49:18 <sss> then you come back w/ that?
861 2011-04-10 07:49:26 <LightRider> I was just thinking about why someone would say that I was on pot...
862 2011-04-10 07:49:48 <Kiba> here's how to get bogged down with a nutcase's argument
863 2011-04-10 07:49:50 <sss> because the only 3 people who've ever mentioned the venus project to me
864 2011-04-10 07:49:53 <sss> were on pot
865 2011-04-10 07:49:57 <sss> so i generalized
866 2011-04-10 07:49:58 <Kiba> 1) say lot of plausible things at once. AND LOT AND LOT.
867 2011-04-10 07:50:10 <Kiba> 2) argue with even more points
868 2011-04-10 07:50:17 <Kiba> 3) repeat number one
869 2011-04-10 07:50:42 <sss> genius
870 2011-04-10 07:50:44 <Kiba> or that how you attack
871 2011-04-10 07:50:48 <sss> kiba
872 2011-04-10 07:50:53 <Kiba> and be a general irrational person
873 2011-04-10 07:51:13 <Kiba> you argue one point
874 2011-04-10 07:51:17 <Kiba> not twenty things
875 2011-04-10 07:51:19 <sss> you have no "asperations" to move out of your parents basement?
876 2011-04-10 07:51:29 <Kiba> sss: that's what my rainy funds is for
877 2011-04-10 07:51:40 <jrabbit> rents free.
878 2011-04-10 07:51:48 <LightRider> does the fact that a person may or may not be influenced by some substance imply that the veracity or plausability of their statements are automatically affected? If a person makes a factual statement, are you incapable of checking the statement out because they were under the influence of something?
879 2011-04-10 07:52:03 <Kiba> I don't like my parents' way of doing thing
880 2011-04-10 07:52:03 <sss> yes
881 2011-04-10 07:52:12 <jrabbit> LightRider: he is mad physically incapable when others have thc
882 2011-04-10 07:52:12 <Kiba> building up rainy fund allows me independence
883 2011-04-10 07:52:14 <sss> kiba ask them to change
884 2011-04-10 07:52:27 <Kiba> sss: pfft. I need to change myself.
885 2011-04-10 07:52:29 <sss> ask for more voting power
886 2011-04-10 07:52:50 <sss> tell them you want more Edy's less Welshs Farm!
887 2011-04-10 07:53:06 <Kiba> jrabbit: mad what?
888 2011-04-10 07:53:20 <jrabbit> made*
889 2011-04-10 07:53:38 <Kiba> did ya check out my crowdfunded project?
890 2011-04-10 07:53:42 <LightRider> or are you given such a negative association with anything the state says is illegal that anyone who is associated with it makes everything about them unacceptable as well
891 2011-04-10 07:54:15 <Kiba> my ideal life:
892 2011-04-10 07:54:16 <sss> lightrider
893 2011-04-10 07:54:21 <Kiba> 1. Located near a hackerspace
894 2011-04-10 07:54:23 <sss> so you just admitted to being a pothead
895 2011-04-10 07:54:26 <Kiba> 2. Bare mininum
896 2011-04-10 07:54:27 <sss> amiright?
897 2011-04-10 07:54:36 <sss> a hackerspace
898 2011-04-10 07:54:36 <LightRider> or did you do your own due dilligence and look into the idea and realize independently that there was no merit to the idea
899 2011-04-10 07:54:37 <sss> what?
900 2011-04-10 07:54:38 <jrabbit> sss: statist
901 2011-04-10 07:54:48 <Kiba> there ain't anythign wrong with being a pothead
902 2011-04-10 07:55:00 <LightRider> No, i do not use drugs
903 2011-04-10 07:55:02 <Kiba> rather, you should say nutcase
904 2011-04-10 07:55:14 <LightRider> but I don't automatically assume people who do use them are wrong about everything either
905 2011-04-10 07:55:20 <sss> there aint anythinf wrong with being a nutcase?
906 2011-04-10 07:55:33 <Kiba> a hackerspace is a communal gathering of hackers where they to learn stuff
907 2011-04-10 07:55:35 <jrabbit> lol@ pot calling the kettle black
908 2011-04-10 07:55:39 <Kiba> sss: a nutcase is irrational
909 2011-04-10 07:55:57 <sss> kiba
910 2011-04-10 07:56:03 <Kiba> a pothead might be someone like me who use it for medical reasons
911 2011-04-10 07:56:03 <sss> what do you learn at these hackerspaces
912 2011-04-10 07:56:08 <Kiba> hacking
913 2011-04-10 07:56:10 <Kiba> welding
914 2011-04-10 07:56:12 <Kiba> engineering
915 2011-04-10 07:56:15 <Kiba> making things
916 2011-04-10 07:56:30 toffoo has quit ()
917 2011-04-10 07:56:39 <Kiba> electrical engineering
918 2011-04-10 07:56:40 <Kiba> the good stuff
919 2011-04-10 07:56:41 <sss> i dont see how they'd work out too well
920 2011-04-10 07:56:48 <Kiba> they're everywhere now
921 2011-04-10 07:56:57 <sss> I assume a lot of people in the hacking world world have ome sort of social problems
922 2011-04-10 07:56:59 <Kiba> you just need to read Hacker News
923 2011-04-10 07:57:07 <Kiba> sss: that's a sterotype
924 2011-04-10 07:57:12 <sss> i dont see how social gatherings work
925 2011-04-10 07:57:14 <LightRider> but I am asking you sss how you determined that the venus project or zeitgeist movement are not sound ideas
926 2011-04-10 07:57:14 <sss> ;P
927 2011-04-10 07:57:19 toffoo has joined
928 2011-04-10 07:57:19 <Kiba> they come together
929 2011-04-10 07:57:20 <Kiba> and learn stuff
930 2011-04-10 07:57:26 <Kiba> and build stuff
931 2011-04-10 07:57:34 <sss> lightrider
932 2011-04-10 07:57:38 <Kiba> where else would your reprap and makerbot comes from?
933 2011-04-10 07:57:42 <sss> they're not sound
934 2011-04-10 07:57:44 <sss> because i want more
935 2011-04-10 07:57:49 <sss> i like being richer than other people
936 2011-04-10 07:58:01 <sss> if i'm an even of other people
937 2011-04-10 07:58:02 <LightRider> so you were socialized and made to be greedy
938 2011-04-10 07:58:03 <sss> im not happy
939 2011-04-10 07:58:07 <sss> yes
940 2011-04-10 07:58:15 <sss> and i like life being greedy
941 2011-04-10 07:58:23 <sss> and other people like being greedy
942 2011-04-10 07:58:26 <LightRider> fortunately that can change!
943 2011-04-10 07:58:33 <sss> it could
944 2011-04-10 07:58:34 <sss> but lets not change it
945 2011-04-10 07:58:38 <sss> because i dont want to change
946 2011-04-10 07:58:39 <sss> :)
947 2011-04-10 07:58:54 <LightRider> well, some people are more resistant to change than others
948 2011-04-10 07:59:01 <Kiba> jrabbit: so, you saw my project?
949 2011-04-10 07:59:07 <jrabbit> No.
950 2011-04-10 07:59:23 <LightRider> especially if they believe that their behavior or lifestyle is better
951 2011-04-10 07:59:28 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5465.0
952 2011-04-10 07:59:36 <Kiba> it's this project
953 2011-04-10 07:59:38 <sss> hey
954 2011-04-10 07:59:51 <sss> lightaider
955 2011-04-10 07:59:53 <sss> i dont want to change
956 2011-04-10 07:59:54 <sss> simple
957 2011-04-10 08:00:02 <sss> in my bitcoin wallet
958 2011-04-10 08:00:09 <sss> what does "8 connections" means
959 2011-04-10 08:00:10 <sss> mean
960 2011-04-10 08:00:14 <sss> in bottom rght corner
961 2011-04-10 08:00:14 <Kiba> it's floating on the forum for days and you don't see my project?
962 2011-04-10 08:00:18 <LightRider> alright then, but that doesn't mean the ideas are not sound, just that you are unreceptive to them
963 2011-04-10 08:00:32 <sss> because im not receptive
964 2011-04-10 08:00:34 <Kiba> it's mean you're connected to 8 peers
965 2011-04-10 08:00:35 <sss> they're not sound
966 2011-04-10 08:00:45 <sss> connected to 8 peers meaning?
967 2011-04-10 08:00:59 <LightRider> no, because you don't want to change
968 2011-04-10 08:01:02 <Kiba> it means you're communicating with other bitcoin nodes
969 2011-04-10 08:01:11 <LightRider> that does not imply anything about the idea, just you
970 2011-04-10 08:01:33 <Kiba> that's how the bitcoin network knows that you send a transaction and stuff
971 2011-04-10 08:01:38 <jrabbit> Kiba: use CC-0
972 2011-04-10 08:01:43 <sss> kiba
973 2011-04-10 08:01:48 <sss> can you explain that to a tech moron
974 2011-04-10 08:01:49 <sss> ;P
975 2011-04-10 08:01:55 <jrabbit> Kiba: some countries don't have public domain, CC-0 takes care of them
976 2011-04-10 08:01:56 <LightRider> but i am satisfied with that answer, thank you for indulging me
977 2011-04-10 08:02:13 <Kiba> jrabbit: I give them the middle figure. but CC-0 is good for that.
978 2011-04-10 08:02:13 <sss> lightrider
979 2011-04-10 08:02:24 <sss> have you watched zeitegeist exposed
980 2011-04-10 08:02:29 <sss> or zeitegeist debunked
981 2011-04-10 08:02:30 <sss> etc etc
982 2011-04-10 08:02:36 <jrabbit> lol zietgiest.
983 2011-04-10 08:02:49 <Kiba> jrabbit: don't focus on the non-promising idea!
984 2011-04-10 08:02:50 <LightRider> yes, they don't make any significant arguments
985 2011-04-10 08:02:59 <Kiba> so, are you going to pledge or not?
986 2011-04-10 08:03:03 <sss> lol
987 2011-04-10 08:03:06 <jrabbit> hmmm?
988 2011-04-10 08:03:09 <Kiba> or you're just not a gamer or you have questions/objection?
989 2011-04-10 08:03:18 <jrabbit> not really intested atm
990 2011-04-10 08:03:19 <sss> kiba
991 2011-04-10 08:03:23 <Kiba> jrabbit: :(
992 2011-04-10 08:03:26 <jrabbit> but I like the kickstarter model.
993 2011-04-10 08:03:27 <Kiba> you rejected me.
994 2011-04-10 08:03:29 <sss> how do you know you could finish the game
995 2011-04-10 08:03:30 <LightRider> but again, this discussion is better on -politics
996 2011-04-10 08:03:31 <sss> in a month
997 2011-04-10 08:03:35 <Kiba> sss: I don't know.
998 2011-04-10 08:03:47 <jrabbit> bitcoin-poltiics?
999 2011-04-10 08:03:52 <LightRider> yes
1000 2011-04-10 08:03:53 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1001 2011-04-10 08:03:56 <jrabbit> sounds nasty considerign the politics in here
1002 2011-04-10 08:04:07 <jrabbit> I wouldn't want a condensed version.
1003 2011-04-10 08:04:10 <Kiba> jrabbit: politics is a waste of time
1004 2011-04-10 08:04:20 <Kiba> who care about defending capitalism?
1005 2011-04-10 08:04:30 <sss> ;o
1006 2011-04-10 08:04:34 <LightRider> well, this room is logged and specifically for development, it isn't polite to muck up the logs with our argument
1007 2011-04-10 08:04:34 <jrabbit> too many :P\
1008 2011-04-10 08:04:38 <Kiba> don't say profit is evil in my face because I debated too much and didn't learn anything
1009 2011-04-10 08:04:46 <jrabbit> LightRider: too little too late lol.
1010 2011-04-10 08:05:01 <Kiba> politics is a bore
1011 2011-04-10 08:05:05 <Kiba> nothing come out of it
1012 2011-04-10 08:05:09 <LightRider> i agree
1013 2011-04-10 08:05:18 <jrabbit> s/politics/ bourgois politics/
1014 2011-04-10 08:05:20 <Kiba> even though I am a capitalist
1015 2011-04-10 08:05:24 <jrabbit> ftfy
1016 2011-04-10 08:05:34 <sss> kiba
1017 2011-04-10 08:05:37 <Kiba> who care about defending capitalism?
1018 2011-04-10 08:05:48 <sss> who are these "peers" im connected to
1019 2011-04-10 08:05:51 <sss> are they rel
1020 2011-04-10 08:05:52 <sss> real
1021 2011-04-10 08:05:53 <Kiba> yes
1022 2011-04-10 08:06:01 <sss> or some open source robots :O
1023 2011-04-10 08:06:05 <Kiba> who care?
1024 2011-04-10 08:06:10 <LightRider> you are limited to 8 because you probably haven't set your port forwarding
1025 2011-04-10 08:06:19 <Kiba> they started up bitcoin just like you
1026 2011-04-10 08:06:21 <Kiba> they're nodes
1027 2011-04-10 08:06:37 <sss> qare nodes real
1028 2011-04-10 08:06:39 <sss> are*
1029 2011-04-10 08:06:51 <Kiba> wehn you wanna send information about spending bitcoin, they relay that information throughout the network
1030 2011-04-10 08:06:51 <LightRider> only if you believe in them
1031 2011-04-10 08:07:02 <sss> oh
1032 2011-04-10 08:07:26 <Kiba> and when soembody wanna send, you help relay the message
1033 2011-04-10 08:07:32 <sss> oh
1034 2011-04-10 08:07:34 <sss> I see
1035 2011-04-10 08:07:39 <sss> its part of the networkings
1036 2011-04-10 08:07:44 <sss> on it communicates
1037 2011-04-10 08:07:45 <sss> sort of
1038 2011-04-10 08:07:57 <Kiba> it communication, alright
1039 2011-04-10 08:08:03 <sss> makes sense
1040 2011-04-10 08:08:12 <sss> what does the
1041 2011-04-10 08:08:16 <sss> "blocks" thing mean
1042 2011-04-10 08:08:24 <sss> says 117616
1043 2011-04-10 08:08:34 <sss> is that my network id
1044 2011-04-10 08:08:36 <sss> ?
1045 2011-04-10 08:08:39 <sss> or something similar
1046 2011-04-10 08:08:49 <Kiba> no
1047 2011-04-10 08:08:54 * Kiba sigh
1048 2011-04-10 08:08:55 <mtrlt> no it's the amount of blocks
1049 2011-04-10 08:08:59 <mtrlt> found.
1050 2011-04-10 08:09:07 <Kiba> go read the bitcoin FAQ
1051 2011-04-10 08:09:19 <sss> k brb
1052 2011-04-10 08:09:20 <Kiba> common noob questions
1053 2011-04-10 08:09:37 <Kiba> not that's there anything wrong with asking questions
1054 2011-04-10 08:09:46 <Kiba> it gets repetitive
1055 2011-04-10 08:10:24 <Kiba> blocks are information about transaction
1056 2011-04-10 08:10:29 <sss> A block is a unit which contains the information of the transactions made after the previous block, plus a transaction which assigns a new coin to the creator of the block. Blocks form a chain from the first block to the latest block. To create a new block you need to spend CPU time, which acts as an unbribable timestamp for the previous transactions. The average rate of block creation in the whole system is 6 / hour
1057 2011-04-10 08:10:45 <Kiba> nightie night
1058 2011-04-10 08:10:51 <sss> Dont they have a bitcoin FAQ for dummies?
1059 2011-04-10 08:11:21 <mtrlt> nope, this is an open source project ;)
1060 2011-04-10 08:11:57 <genjix> sss: yeah see wiki
1061 2011-04-10 08:12:07 <sss> what do i do w/ my blocks then
1062 2011-04-10 08:12:24 <sss> can they kill people
1063 2011-04-10 08:12:27 <sss> cuz im down w/ that
1064 2011-04-10 08:12:30 <mtrlt> if you find a block, you get 50 BTC
1065 2011-04-10 08:12:58 <sss> i def dont understand what block are then
1066 2011-04-10 08:13:24 <sss> what's the indictator on the bottom right of my screen that says 117616 blocks?
1067 2011-04-10 08:13:49 <mtrlt> the total amount of blocks in the whole network
1068 2011-04-10 08:13:57 <mtrlt> not the amount of blocks you've found
1069 2011-04-10 08:14:20 <sss> oh
1070 2011-04-10 08:14:26 <sss> thats cool
1071 2011-04-10 08:19:46 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
1072 2011-04-10 08:19:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 117616 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 1327 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 15 hours, 53 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 87799.77840014
1073 2011-04-10 08:19:54 <midnightmagic> lame
1074 2011-04-10 08:20:44 <sss> what does that mean difficulty?
1075 2011-04-10 08:20:55 <midnightmagic> hrm?
1076 2011-04-10 08:21:06 <sss> I dnt get
1077 2011-04-10 08:21:08 <sss> what that means
1078 2011-04-10 08:21:13 <midnightmagic> what what means?
1079 2011-04-10 08:21:16 <sss> "current difficulty"
1080 2011-04-10 08:21:20 <sss> "next difficulty"
1081 2011-04-10 08:21:21 <sss> etc etc
1082 2011-04-10 08:21:40 <stamit> difficulty is proportional to the average time it takes to generate a block
1083 2011-04-10 08:21:52 <stamit> (if i got it right)
1084 2011-04-10 08:21:53 <witten> the difficulty changes every n blocks
1085 2011-04-10 08:22:13 <sss> so if i got this right
1086 2011-04-10 08:22:14 <midnightmagic> yes. Take your current hashes. Then run them through this equation: (D*(2^32))/(3600*H) where "D" is the "Current Difficulty" and "H" is your current hashrate in hashes per second. The result will give you how many hours you can expect to wait at that hashrate, on average, before you find a block.
1087 2011-04-10 08:22:18 <witten> so it's the same difficulty to find blocks for a while, and then it gets more difficult
1088 2011-04-10 08:22:23 <sss> bitcoins are generated once a new block is added
1089 2011-04-10 08:22:31 <sss> and there's 50 bitcoins per block?
1090 2011-04-10 08:22:42 <midnightmagic> sss: for a while, yea. soon there will be just 25.
1091 2011-04-10 08:23:05 dissipate has joined
1092 2011-04-10 08:23:05 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
1093 2011-04-10 08:23:05 dissipate has joined
1094 2011-04-10 08:23:29 <sss> so only a few people
1095 2011-04-10 08:23:32 trievalot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1096 2011-04-10 08:23:35 <sss> actually acquire bitcoins
1097 2011-04-10 08:23:37 <sss> and they sell them
1098 2011-04-10 08:23:42 <sss> and propel the market
1099 2011-04-10 08:23:53 <stamit> who gets bitcoins is random
1100 2011-04-10 08:24:14 <witten> well, I wouldn't say random
1101 2011-04-10 08:24:16 <stamit> anyone who mines gets (or might get) them
1102 2011-04-10 08:24:34 <witten> more like, bitcoins are randomly distributed amonst ATI customers :)
1103 2011-04-10 08:24:39 <stamit> chances are proportional to the CPU power they have
1104 2011-04-10 08:24:41 <sss> ATI?
1105 2011-04-10 08:24:47 <stamit> now AMD
1106 2011-04-10 08:24:53 <witten> ATI video cards are often used for mining
1107 2011-04-10 08:25:05 <stamit> ATI GPUs mine faster than anything else
1108 2011-04-10 08:25:34 <stamit> they are good for calculating hashes like that
1109 2011-04-10 08:25:51 <stamit> like bitcoin requires.
1110 2011-04-10 08:26:09 <sss> so only people with ATI/AMD cards get bitcoins
1111 2011-04-10 08:26:22 <sss> which in turns gets sold on bitcoin exhcanges
1112 2011-04-10 08:26:25 <sss> ,akes sense
1113 2011-04-10 08:26:27 <midnightmagic> every 2016 blocks we change difficulty, and we rollover to 25 bitcoins around.. mm.. when we rollover to block number 210000
1114 2011-04-10 08:26:38 <stamit> ATI owners just get more
1115 2011-04-10 08:26:59 <sss> does everyone get bitcoins eventually?
1116 2011-04-10 08:27:07 <midnightmagic> they would if they mined forever.
1117 2011-04-10 08:27:09 <stamit> according to CPU power
1118 2011-04-10 08:27:21 <stamit> more power, more bitcoins
1119 2011-04-10 08:27:35 <midnightmagic> but some CPU miners, for example, could still be mining when difficulty reached a point where they likely would never get coins ever again..
1120 2011-04-10 08:27:53 <stamit> "power"="speed of hash calculation"
1121 2011-04-10 08:27:54 <midnightmagic> some CPUs would take years to get any coins..
1122 2011-04-10 08:28:08 maikmerten has joined
1123 2011-04-10 08:28:16 <sss> so how long would my type of pc take
1124 2011-04-10 08:28:16 <midnightmagic> unless they joined a pool and were happy with tiny slivers of coins whenever the pool found a block.
1125 2011-04-10 08:28:18 <sss> i have a macbook
1126 2011-04-10 08:28:28 <midnightmagic> sss: does it have a fast video card?
1127 2011-04-10 08:28:46 <sss> its the standard video card
1128 2011-04-10 08:28:47 <sss> I guess?
1129 2011-04-10 08:28:52 <midnightmagic> actually, it's a mac. macs don't do OpenCL so well.
1130 2011-04-10 08:28:52 trievalot has joined
1131 2011-04-10 08:29:06 <midnightmagic> so. don't waste your mac.
1132 2011-04-10 08:29:15 <LightRider> Dallas has a radio station that played a 4 hour block of love songs. They called it midnightmagic
1133 2011-04-10 08:29:34 <midnightmagic> what would be better would be for you to make something interesting and sell it for bitcoins.
1134 2011-04-10 08:29:53 <midnightmagic> you would probably get way more bitcoins that way, at a much greater profit than mining.
1135 2011-04-10 08:30:07 <sss> well for my usage of bitcoins idk
1136 2011-04-10 08:30:16 <sss> they're the currency for a game
1137 2011-04-10 08:30:18 <sss> which I never played
1138 2011-04-10 08:30:22 <sss> but saw advertised
1139 2011-04-10 08:30:45 <midnightmagic> well, you don't even have to use your bitcoins. you could just sell them back to the market.
1140 2011-04-10 08:31:33 <stamit> i don't know how nice it is if people first hear about bitcoins from gambling websites
1141 2011-04-10 08:32:00 <midnightmagic> it's not really nice at all.
1142 2011-04-10 08:32:16 <sss> i find the idea interesting
1143 2011-04-10 08:32:26 <sss> have no use for the game itself
1144 2011-04-10 08:32:39 <sss> :O
1145 2011-04-10 08:32:50 <gjs278> considering the fees of converting coins to money and back right now, that's all it's good for
1146 2011-04-10 08:33:04 <midnightmagic> so do a lot of people..people who are willing to invest tens of thousands of dollars in mining equipment for it.
1147 2011-04-10 08:33:42 <midnightmagic> hardly
1148 2011-04-10 08:34:13 <sss> do people really invest so much
1149 2011-04-10 08:34:16 <sss> just to mine it?
1150 2011-04-10 08:34:21 <midnightmagic> yes.
1151 2011-04-10 08:34:30 <sss> can single individuals mine 10k btc?
1152 2011-04-10 08:34:49 <midnightmagic> >$50k or $70k or so, yeah absolutely.
1153 2011-04-10 08:35:03 <stamit> if a thing can make its money in 2 months then 10 things all together can make their money in 2 months as well
1154 2011-04-10 08:35:19 <midnightmagic> oh.. ฿10k.. sure.
1155 2011-04-10 08:35:26 <sss> what do they buy exactly
1156 2011-04-10 08:35:30 <sss> tons of pcs?
1157 2011-04-10 08:35:53 <midnightmagic> radeon hd 5970, originally. but now those are quickly becoming losers..
1158 2011-04-10 08:35:55 <stamit> those newer video cards are PCI-express cards
1159 2011-04-10 08:36:12 <sss> how expensive are top notch video cards?
1160 2011-04-10 08:36:17 <stamit> PCs usually don't have many PCI-express slots
1161 2011-04-10 08:36:21 <midnightmagic> sss: at the moment, the winner seems to be custom chips, custom-built, by the miner themselves.
1162 2011-04-10 08:36:45 <midnightmagic> sss: 5970 were $400-$600 CAD for me back in December when they were blowing them out for Christmas.
1163 2011-04-10 08:37:02 <sss> how many pcs do miners have mining
1164 2011-04-10 08:37:13 <stamit> custom chips, i hear
1165 2011-04-10 08:37:29 <midnightmagic> sss: either one per four video cards, one per two video cards, or for the insane people, one per 16 video cards.
1166 2011-04-10 08:37:55 <sss> what do you mean one per four video cards
1167 2011-04-10 08:38:00 <sss> i thought pcs only had 1 video card
1168 2011-04-10 08:38:09 <midnightmagic> sss: one PC, and then they buy four video cards and plug them all into that one PC.
1169 2011-04-10 08:38:24 <midnightmagic> sss: no, they can fit as many as there are slots and power for.
1170 2011-04-10 08:38:53 <sss> oh
1171 2011-04-10 08:39:12 <sss> so how often is a block created?
1172 2011-04-10 08:39:13 <stamit> must be the right kind of slot too, of course
1173 2011-04-10 08:39:16 <midnightmagic> i should snap a photo of one of my miners for you.
1174 2011-04-10 08:39:24 BERRI has quit (Excess Flood)
1175 2011-04-10 08:39:27 <sss> its fine
1176 2011-04-10 08:39:29 <midnightmagic> sss: network-wide, the network aims to average one block every 600 seconds, and scales itself accordingly.
1177 2011-04-10 08:39:30 <sss> no need :P
1178 2011-04-10 08:39:54 <sss> so in those 600 seconds
1179 2011-04-10 08:39:59 <sss> how many people get bitcoins
1180 2011-04-10 08:40:02 <sss> only 1?
1181 2011-04-10 08:40:08 <midnightmagic> stamit: it'll apparently fit in anything from x16 to x1 pcie slots. so you just need "a pcie slot"
1182 2011-04-10 08:40:13 <midnightmagic> sss: 1.
1183 2011-04-10 08:40:19 <midnightmagic> sss: or many, if they are pool mining.
1184 2011-04-10 08:40:34 <midnightmagic> sss: but effectively, the pool manager techncially gets the block then, so.. still 1. on average.
1185 2011-04-10 08:40:50 <midnightmagic> sss: unless the network is growing, or shrinking, or lucky or unlucky.
1186 2011-04-10 08:41:06 <sss> i see
1187 2011-04-10 08:41:10 <sss> so i can mine forever
1188 2011-04-10 08:41:16 <sss> and never get any btc?
1189 2011-04-10 08:41:27 <midnightmagic> mining is like playing a lottery thousands or millions of times per second.
1190 2011-04-10 08:41:42 <midnightmagic> sss: yes, you could technically be a terrible, terrible loser forever, but it's unlikely.
1191 2011-04-10 08:41:45 BERRI has joined
1192 2011-04-10 08:42:43 <sss> guess im never going to mine then :O
1193 2011-04-10 08:42:57 <midnightmagic> no, sell stuff for bitcoins, you'll do much, much better than any miner could.
1194 2011-04-10 08:43:24 <stamit> if you have a video card already that you use for playing games, mining is a good use for its spare time
1195 2011-04-10 08:43:31 <midnightmagic> sell pickles, knit sweaters, build machines, lasers, cut circuits.. whatever.
1196 2011-04-10 08:44:06 <sss> think i could sell kiba volcano insurance for his rainy day fund?
1197 2011-04-10 08:44:07 <midnightmagic> do whatever your real-world profession is, but do it in exchange for bitcoins..
1198 2011-04-10 08:44:18 <midnightmagic> =] if he's willing to buy it, sure.
1199 2011-04-10 08:44:47 <stamit> now there's another problem
1200 2011-04-10 08:44:49 <sss> i guess you dont get the family guy reference :(
1201 2011-04-10 08:45:01 <midnightmagic> i watch family guy rabidly, but no.
1202 2011-04-10 08:45:24 <sss> when you wish upon a weinstein
1203 2011-04-10 08:45:26 <stamit> how do you "convert" people that are used to taking/giving dollars like they are used to drinking water?
1204 2011-04-10 08:45:33 <sss> peter buys volcano insurance
1205 2011-04-10 08:45:42 <sss> in exchange for their rainy day fund
1206 2011-04-10 08:45:53 <midnightmagic> ah that sounds familiar..
1207 2011-04-10 08:46:04 <sss> oh and stamits Q is good too
1208 2011-04-10 08:46:12 <stamit> Q?
1209 2011-04-10 08:46:19 <sss> question
1210 2011-04-10 08:46:22 <stamit> question
1211 2011-04-10 08:46:28 <midnightmagic> how do you convert new people? tell them to sell stuff for bitcoins that costs them basically nothing, and show them that other people are spending real money to get bitcoins far in excess of what they are making for the stuff they're selling.
1212 2011-04-10 08:46:33 <stamit> a newbie question, but of a different kind
1213 2011-04-10 08:47:03 <sss> but what if youre in a business
1214 2011-04-10 08:47:06 <sss> with lots of clients
1215 2011-04-10 08:47:14 <sss> no way you could convince them to use bitcoins
1216 2011-04-10 08:47:17 <stamit> not very easy to do many things when there is time pressure
1217 2011-04-10 08:47:17 <sss> over cash
1218 2011-04-10 08:47:47 <midnightmagic> you could give them a discount if they pay you in bitcoins.
1219 2011-04-10 08:48:01 <stamit> there was some project to allow people to make payments almost as easily as by using cash
1220 2011-04-10 08:48:22 <sss> genius
1221 2011-04-10 08:48:32 <sss> how do you convince the average person that bitcoin is legit
1222 2011-04-10 08:48:33 <midnightmagic> make their wallet happy and they'll even buy bitcoins at a "premium" since overall they "make" money. and you win also because you're charging them a significant overage (or else you'd be out of business eventually) and then you get your hands on bitcoins.
1223 2011-04-10 08:48:40 <stamit> convincing people to pay you in bitcoins may be easier than convincing people to accept payments in bitcoins
1224 2011-04-10 08:48:54 <midnightmagic> you flash a giant wad of bills at them and tell them you made that money with bitcoins.
1225 2011-04-10 08:49:15 <sss> but youre saying its just a payment processor
1226 2011-04-10 08:49:17 <midnightmagic> or you buy a new car and tell people the monthly payment is made with bitcoins.
1227 2011-04-10 08:49:21 <sss> doesnt explain how you profitted
1228 2011-04-10 08:49:44 <midnightmagic> money convinces them. tangible evidence of the utility of bitcoins convinces them.
1229 2011-04-10 08:50:02 <midnightmagic> and then if they're smart enough, you explain it.
1230 2011-04-10 08:50:08 <Warlord> how much is 50btc to usd worth ?
1231 2011-04-10 08:50:20 <midnightmagic> if they're not, then they're probably not ready to join the embryonic currency markets anyway, and you move on.
1232 2011-04-10 08:50:44 <stamit> i hope it stops being "embryonic"
1233 2011-04-10 08:50:51 <midnightmagic> ;;calc 50 * 0.75
1234 2011-04-10 08:50:51 <gribble> 50 * 0.75 = 37.5
1235 2011-04-10 08:50:56 <sss> hmmm
1236 2011-04-10 08:50:57 <sss> well
1237 2011-04-10 08:51:16 <sss> if i didnt have a history in virtual economies and games
1238 2011-04-10 08:51:25 <sss> I'd think bitcoin is insane
1239 2011-04-10 08:51:43 <midnightmagic> at that point, you counter with, "Lots of people are insane. Haven't you noticed?"
1240 2011-04-10 08:51:45 <sss> have you ever converted someone into a bitcoin user?
1241 2011-04-10 08:51:51 <midnightmagic> lots of people, sure.
1242 2011-04-10 08:52:05 <sss> what type of product
1243 2011-04-10 08:52:08 <sss> do you sell?
1244 2011-04-10 08:52:13 <sss> accepting bitcoins
1245 2011-04-10 08:52:19 <midnightmagic> i am a miner.
1246 2011-04-10 08:52:31 <sss> so you sell mining supplies
1247 2011-04-10 08:52:32 <sss> hard hats
1248 2011-04-10 08:52:33 <midnightmagic> a little one by comparison, but still.
1249 2011-04-10 08:52:35 <sss> picks
1250 2011-04-10 08:52:37 <sss> axes
1251 2011-04-10 08:52:38 <sss> etc?
1252 2011-04-10 08:52:40 <midnightmagic> no, bitcoin miner.
1253 2011-04-10 08:52:45 <midnightmagic> turkey
1254 2011-04-10 08:52:47 <sss> im joking :)
1255 2011-04-10 08:52:51 <midnightmagic> i know.
1256 2011-04-10 08:53:00 <sss> ok good
1257 2011-04-10 08:53:22 <midnightmagic> so i use bitcoins and spread them around liberally to people.
1258 2011-04-10 08:53:42 <midnightmagic> and tell people I accept bitcoins at a discount whenever they would otherwise pay me money.
1259 2011-04-10 08:53:54 <sss> so have you ever convinced someone to accept bitcoins
1260 2011-04-10 08:53:56 <sss> as a payment
1261 2011-04-10 08:54:03 <sss> someone who's never used bitcoins before
1262 2011-04-10 08:54:09 <stamit> i tried
1263 2011-04-10 08:54:22 <gjs278> I would never accept a currency I never heard of as payment for something
1264 2011-04-10 08:54:23 <midnightmagic> and I convince lots of people to accept it instead of money, who otherwise wouldn't, because they're often geeks and think bitcoins are awesome.
1265 2011-04-10 08:54:24 <gjs278> ever
1266 2011-04-10 08:54:25 <stamit> but there was time pressure
1267 2011-04-10 08:54:26 <stamit> he could have used it
1268 2011-04-10 08:54:31 <midnightmagic> yes of course. all the time.
1269 2011-04-10 08:54:39 <sss> on what type of products
1270 2011-04-10 08:54:43 <gjs278> it's not worth the drama if the coins drop in value when they tried to cash out
1271 2011-04-10 08:54:44 <sss> thats the more interesting part
1272 2011-04-10 08:54:55 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1273 2011-04-10 08:56:20 <stamit> i wonder what kinds of people those are
1274 2011-04-10 08:56:32 <sss> like he said geeks
1275 2011-04-10 08:56:36 <sss> who think btc is awesome
1276 2011-04-10 08:56:42 <stamit> "geeks" ok
1277 2011-04-10 08:56:53 <midnightmagic> mostly intangibles: membership fees, club participation fees (I am part of the Awesome Shit Club, which I pay for in bitcoins), but also ccomputer hardware, radio equipment, ducting, fans, that sort of thing. i also sell bitcoins directly to people for a discount who are nice to me.
1278 2011-04-10 08:56:56 <stamit> "geeks" is a pretty broad term
1279 2011-04-10 08:57:16 <midnightmagic> they all made out like bandits because i made sure they did.
1280 2011-04-10 08:57:33 <sss> thats the interesting part
1281 2011-04-10 08:57:38 <sss> membership fees for what
1282 2011-04-10 08:57:51 sgornick has joined
1283 2011-04-10 08:57:56 <stamit> where i live, i doubt people will give it a "second thought" (or even a first thought)
1284 2011-04-10 08:58:00 <gjs278> yeah
1285 2011-04-10 08:58:09 <sss> you convinced a store owner you didnt know
1286 2011-04-10 08:58:11 <sss> to accept btc
1287 2011-04-10 08:58:15 <sss> where are you from
1288 2011-04-10 08:58:16 <midnightmagic> but my BTC only cost me.. perhaps $0.07CAD or so, per, so it's not like I'm not profiting either.
1289 2011-04-10 08:58:23 <stamit> for "Awesome Shit" i guess
1290 2011-04-10 08:59:09 <stamit> but maybe it's just me, as i am a horrible salesman
1291 2011-04-10 08:59:12 <sss> oh
1292 2011-04-10 08:59:20 <sss> maybe in canadia it works
1293 2011-04-10 08:59:20 <sss> well
1294 2011-04-10 08:59:21 <midnightmagic> no, it's a competition club for cash giveaway to worthy projects. so, philanthropy, really.
1295 2011-04-10 08:59:23 <gjs278> until there is a way someone can just trade bitcoins and have money sent to a paypal account from a reliable service, I'm not telling anyone to use it
1296 2011-04-10 08:59:55 <midnightmagic> gjs278: but you can have it wired directly into you bank account..?
1297 2011-04-10 09:00:32 <gjs278> don't you have to give your routing number for that
1298 2011-04-10 09:00:33 <stamit> people are used to paypal. maybe they feel it gives them privacy
1299 2011-04-10 09:00:43 <midnightmagic> yeah, but since when is that dangerous?
1300 2011-04-10 09:01:00 <gjs278> lol
1301 2011-04-10 09:01:27 <gjs278> you do know it would work both ways from that
1302 2011-04-10 09:01:33 <fimp> how come noone offers withdrawal to paypal?
1303 2011-04-10 09:01:36 <midnightmagic> you don't know what you're talking about.
1304 2011-04-10 09:01:40 <gjs278> yes I do
1305 2011-04-10 09:01:46 <midnightmagic> no you don't.
1306 2011-04-10 09:01:48 <sss> lol
1307 2011-04-10 09:01:52 <gjs278> how else did I authorize the govt to take money from my bank account
1308 2011-04-10 09:01:59 <gjs278> with just the the account number
1309 2011-04-10 09:02:00 <gjs278> and the routing
1310 2011-04-10 09:02:04 <midnightmagic> what, you think just anyone can do that?
1311 2011-04-10 09:02:14 <gjs278> uhh if you give them that info, you're practically askign for it
1312 2011-04-10 09:02:46 <stamit> um, banks aren't supposed to let anyone withdraw from any account
1313 2011-04-10 09:02:49 <midnightmagic> you have no idea what you're talking about.
1314 2011-04-10 09:02:51 <gjs278> you can easily
1315 2011-04-10 09:02:56 <gjs278> how else can paypal withdraw from my account
1316 2011-04-10 09:03:05 <gjs278> or I pay for something on amazon with my account
1317 2011-04-10 09:03:16 * midnightmagic facepalms.
1318 2011-04-10 09:03:35 <stamit> isn't it supposed to be your money?
1319 2011-04-10 09:03:43 <gjs278> midnightmagic enlighten me then instead of burying your greasy hand into your face again, it'll help with the acne
1320 2011-04-10 09:03:44 <stamit> you have to give consent of some sort
1321 2011-04-10 09:04:04 <sss> ;/
1322 2011-04-10 09:04:14 <gjs278> how did amazon get consent when I gave them that information
1323 2011-04-10 09:04:22 <gjs278> I mean, it is the same information
1324 2011-04-10 09:04:22 <stamit> if anyone could steal your money, just by knowing a few numbers, then the system sucks.
1325 2011-04-10 09:04:30 <midnightmagic> THEY CAN'T.
1326 2011-04-10 09:04:45 <gjs278> midnightmagic how did amazon withdraw $50 from my account to pay for my last purchase
1327 2011-04-10 09:05:13 <gjs278> when all I gave them was my routing and account number
1328 2011-04-10 09:05:29 <sss> amazon has magical powers
1329 2011-04-10 09:05:36 <stamit> i think there is a period of a few days (or untill a little after the next bank statement you receive) when you can deny that you wanted to make a transaction
1330 2011-04-10 09:06:13 <stamit> so if someone steals from you, you can complain to get your money back
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1332 2011-04-10 09:06:29 <stamit> at least that's how i hear things are here
1333 2011-04-10 09:06:56 <midnightmagic> your bank will happily reverse anything that doesn't have a signed transfer form.
1334 2011-04-10 09:07:19 <midnightmagic> and then Amazon will fuck you.
1335 2011-04-10 09:07:23 <sss> midnightmagic
1336 2011-04-10 09:07:28 <sss> his pt is
1337 2011-04-10 09:07:28 <stamit> but still, people may be averse to giving their bank account info
1338 2011-04-10 09:07:34 <sss> that he doesnt want the hassle
1339 2011-04-10 09:07:34 <gjs278> yes, but they were still able to withdraw the money
1340 2011-04-10 09:07:38 <midnightmagic> stamit: that is true.
1341 2011-04-10 09:07:47 <midnightmagic> gjs278: No, they're BANK was.
1342 2011-04-10 09:07:56 <gjs278> that's fine
1343 2011-04-10 09:07:58 <sss> midnight
1344 2011-04-10 09:08:00 <gjs278> but I'd still rather use paypal
1345 2011-04-10 09:08:01 <midnightmagic> If you reverse that, their bank loses.
1346 2011-04-10 09:08:01 <sss> when someone accs btc
1347 2011-04-10 09:08:01 <stamit> to receive a payment with paypal, what you do is give you email
1348 2011-04-10 09:08:06 <sss> was way do you advise them
1349 2011-04-10 09:08:10 <sss> of withdrawing their btcs
1350 2011-04-10 09:09:16 <stamit> that may give the illusion of privacy
1351 2011-04-10 09:09:34 <stamit> but to withdraw money from paypal or to send money to someone else, you *have* to identify yourself
1352 2011-04-10 09:09:52 <gjs278> yeah, you have to add the card or account attached to it
1353 2011-04-10 09:10:39 <stamit> and if they catch any kind of weird website activity associated with you, they freeze your account immediately, and you have to contact them to further identify yourself
1354 2011-04-10 09:11:13 <stamit> they can ask you to send (fax/upload) them copies of utility bills
1355 2011-04-10 09:11:19 <gjs278> yeah I hate when that happens
1356 2011-04-10 09:11:27 <gjs278> I just called and they cleared it
1357 2011-04-10 09:12:06 sss has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1358 2011-04-10 09:13:39 <stamit> of course, paypal is used for ordering tangible things, which are sent by mail, so that makes it difficult *not* to identify yourself
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1372 2011-04-10 09:41:30 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 506
1373 2011-04-10 09:41:31 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1374 2011-04-10 09:41:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 506 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 22 years, 8 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 13 minutes, and 43 seconds
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1379 2011-04-10 10:09:58 <testing_> ;;bc,gen 430000
1380 2011-04-10 10:09:59 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 430000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 5.25222573601 BTC per day and 0.218842739001 BTC per hour.
1381 2011-04-10 10:10:25 <testing_> ;;bc,calc 430000
1382 2011-04-10 10:10:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 430000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 1 week, 2 days, 12 hours, 28 minutes, and 28 seconds
1383 2011-04-10 10:18:36 <testing_> ;;bc,calc 165000000
1384 2011-04-10 10:18:36 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 165000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 35 minutes and 43 seconds
1385 2011-04-10 10:18:45 <testing_> ;;bc,calc 85000000
1386 2011-04-10 10:18:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 85000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 1 hour, 9 minutes, and 20 seconds
1387 2011-04-10 10:20:02 <testing_> ;;bc,gen 165000000
1388 2011-04-10 10:20:03 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 165000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 2015.38894521 BTC per day and 83.9745393839 BTC per hour.
1389 2011-04-10 10:20:11 <testing_> ;;bc,gen 85000000
1390 2011-04-10 10:20:13 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 85000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 1038.23066875 BTC per day and 43.2596111978 BTC per hour.
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1433 2011-04-10 12:35:34 <genjix> ducki2p: see PM
1434 2011-04-10 12:42:48 <xelister> Kiba: better poke the admin
1435 2011-04-10 12:43:01 <xelister> was /var/www/bitcoin/wiki/doku.php fixed (no space on device)?
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1442 2011-04-10 13:05:32 <warpi> hello! i want to manufacture electronic pcbs for bitcoins, but ive got stuck creating the webshop for this. is it required to setup your own bitcoind server for this?
1443 2011-04-10 13:06:21 <tcatm> you could use a service like mybitcoin.com
1444 2011-04-10 13:07:16 <warpi> oki
1445 2011-04-10 13:07:43 <sipa> you're going to produce custom bitcoin hardware, and sell it?
1446 2011-04-10 13:08:08 <warpi> no. i will create custom pcb for whoever wants it, and take bitcoin as payment
1447 2011-04-10 13:08:24 <sipa> oh ic, nice
1448 2011-04-10 13:09:30 <warpi> yepp, this will be fun :)
1449 2011-04-10 13:09:37 <warpi> because i havent seen anyone else doing that
1450 2011-04-10 13:14:09 Lartza has quit (Quit: Lähdössä)
1451 2011-04-10 13:17:37 <[Tycho]> warpi, where your shop is located ?
1452 2011-04-10 13:17:44 <warpi> sweden
1453 2011-04-10 13:21:38 <warpi> tcatm, where can i find the server details of mybitcoin which i shall input in the wordpress store settings...?
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1456 2011-04-10 13:32:33 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,gen 300000
1457 2011-04-10 13:32:34 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 3.66434353675 BTC per day and 0.152680980698 BTC per hour.
1458 2011-04-10 13:35:36 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 1260000 4d
1459 2011-04-10 13:35:37 <gribble> 0.708063634943
1460 2011-04-10 13:35:42 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 1260000 5d
1461 2011-04-10 13:35:42 <gribble> 0.78540962173
1462 2011-04-10 13:36:50 <fimp> Question: Is there a particular reason as to why noone has set up a wallet that allows for time deposits and loans? I.e. a full reserve bank?
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1465 2011-04-10 13:39:59 <sipa> since there isn't much investment done in bitcoin yet, i doubt many people have need for loans in it
1466 2011-04-10 13:41:43 <tcatm> warpi: I don't think mybitcoin is compatible with wordpress
1467 2011-04-10 13:41:53 <warpi> ok
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1469 2011-04-10 13:42:11 <warpi> so, it seems i have to make sure i can run my own server then
1470 2011-04-10 13:42:39 <sipa> i'd still try to use some shopping cart interface
1471 2011-04-10 13:42:54 <sipa> otherwise you'll need to reimplement a lot yourself
1472 2011-04-10 13:43:39 <JFK911> ;;bc,prob 400000 4d
1473 2011-04-10 13:43:40 <gribble> 0.323527383635
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1483 2011-04-10 14:17:33 danbri has joined
1484 2011-04-10 14:17:58 * danbri files himself under lurk'n'learn; waves
1485 2011-04-10 14:21:41 * Kiba prepare himself
1486 2011-04-10 14:22:23 devon_hillard has joined
1487 2011-04-10 14:26:17 <xelister> remember how my card overheated to 100 C for few minutes?
1488 2011-04-10 14:26:17 sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1489 2011-04-10 14:26:30 <xelister> it seems ever since then.. my card is now more stable. LOL?!
1490 2011-04-10 14:27:20 <xelister> now it appears to less often hang when playing video while card is running o.c'd
1491 2011-04-10 14:27:29 <lfm> I wouldnt want to rely on that technique
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1494 2011-04-10 14:27:50 <xelister> lfm: yeap me too =) but it's a funny fact/coincidence
1495 2011-04-10 14:28:02 <Kiba> so folks
1496 2011-04-10 14:28:15 <Kiba> xelister: have you considered pledging some bitcoin to my project?
1497 2011-04-10 14:28:31 <xelister> Kiba: url with description/spec/something?
1498 2011-04-10 14:28:46 DrQ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1499 2011-04-10 14:29:17 <Kiba> xelister: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5465.0
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1508 2011-04-10 14:53:06 <zooko> What's your estimate of the total U.S. dollar value of computers currently dedicated to BitCoin mining/transacting?
1509 2011-04-10 14:53:13 dinox is now known as LiquidMiner
1510 2011-04-10 14:53:35 <zooko> Is it true that if you control > 1/2 of the BitCoin CPU power then you can mine BTC faster than the publicly agreed rate of increase of the BTC money supply?
1511 2011-04-10 14:53:54 <lfm> zooko: kinda hard to do since the cost of the computer doesnt always translate to the efficientcy for bitcoin
1512 2011-04-10 14:54:02 moop has joined
1513 2011-04-10 14:54:03 <LiquidMiner> no
1514 2011-04-10 14:54:16 <LiquidMiner> but you can multi-send your payments
1515 2011-04-10 14:54:38 <zooko> LiquidMiner: double-spending I understand.
1516 2011-04-10 14:54:39 <lfm> zooko: or you can stop everyone else from mining
1517 2011-04-10 14:54:56 <zooko> But what prevents you from mining twice as many BTC as was *supposed* to be mined during that period?
1518 2011-04-10 14:55:24 <LiquidMiner> no other node will accept them?
1519 2011-04-10 14:55:55 <lfm> zooko: the minority would still be verify the basic rules and wont accept any transaction that violates the rules.
1520 2011-04-10 14:56:01 <zooko> How can they tell that they were ... Oh, they check the entire stack of hashes.
1521 2011-04-10 14:56:12 <LiquidMiner> yep
1522 2011-04-10 14:56:17 <zooko> Although you *could* generate separate (branched) stacks and spend them to different nodes.
1523 2011-04-10 14:56:23 <zooko> Which is just a variation on double-spending.
1524 2011-04-10 14:56:33 <zooko> Thanks! :-)
1525 2011-04-10 14:56:46 <zooko> I'm posting a comment at http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2011/04/andresen_on_bit.html
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1527 2011-04-10 14:57:03 <zooko> Anybody want to give me an estimate of the USD value of CPUs currently BTC mining?
1528 2011-04-10 14:57:08 <lfm> or you could prevent certain transactions from going thru. you could stop the whole net from doing anything
1529 2011-04-10 14:57:10 <zooko> I know it is hard to estimate that sort of thing.
1530 2011-04-10 14:57:21 <zooko> It is a Fermi problem.
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1532 2011-04-10 14:57:37 <lfm> zooko: the cpus are almost negligible for mining now
1533 2011-04-10 14:57:49 <lfm> zooko: gpus are the main miners
1534 2011-04-10 14:58:21 <zooko> Sure, I meant to include GPUs when I said "CPUs".
1535 2011-04-10 14:58:30 <zooko> How about "whjat'
1536 2011-04-10 14:58:41 <zooko> "what's the opportunity cost of BTC mining in 2011 USD?". :-)
1537 2011-04-10 14:58:54 <lfm> we can tell you an estimate of the total number of hashes being tried on the bitcoin net
1538 2011-04-10 14:59:01 * zooko nods
1539 2011-04-10 14:59:33 <zooko> Oh, it is *easier* to say, how many USD would you need to launch a project to control > 1/2 of all hashing currently.
1540 2011-04-10 14:59:37 <lfm> http://www3.telus.net/millerlf/hashes.png
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1542 2011-04-10 14:59:42 <zooko> Then you can assume the most cost-effective computer for you.
1543 2011-04-10 14:59:56 <lfm> zooko: ya, you can estimate that pretty easy
1544 2011-04-10 15:00:02 <zooko> Thanks!
1545 2011-04-10 15:00:17 <zooko> about 10^12 hashes/sec currently? Awesome.
1546 2011-04-10 15:00:36 <lfm> 600-700 times 10^11 ya
1547 2011-04-10 15:01:04 LiquidMiner_ has joined
1548 2011-04-10 15:01:07 <lfm> ya so if you can put together your own 10^12 hashes/s you could control bitcoin
1549 2011-04-10 15:01:20 <zooko> Okay, so how much USD would you need to set up a system that could do 10^12 hashes/sec?
1550 2011-04-10 15:01:33 <zooko> Bonus points for including power costs. :-)
1551 2011-04-10 15:02:12 <LiquidMiner_> aboult half a milloin USD + power i guess
1552 2011-04-10 15:02:13 <lfm> well I think the ati 5790 is most efficient still it can do about 500,000,000 hashes/s
1553 2011-04-10 15:02:26 <Kiba> so
1554 2011-04-10 15:02:53 <LiquidMiner_> lfm: you mean 5970?
1555 2011-04-10 15:02:56 <Kiba> the total TH divided by 500 GH?
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1557 2011-04-10 15:03:03 LiquidMiner_ is now known as LiquidMiner
1558 2011-04-10 15:03:16 <LiquidMiner> half the total is enough
1559 2011-04-10 15:03:16 <lfm> LiquidMiner: ya 5970
1560 2011-04-10 15:03:45 <lfm> LiquidMiner: ya you need to double the current amount to have half the total
1561 2011-04-10 15:04:07 <Kiba> 691 / .500?
1562 2011-04-10 15:04:11 <LiquidMiner> ah right
1563 2011-04-10 15:04:12 genjix_ has joined
1564 2011-04-10 15:04:22 <Kiba> 1382 5970s
1565 2011-04-10 15:04:24 genjix_ is now known as genjix_alternate
1566 2011-04-10 15:04:36 <zooko> Any idea how much power they draw?
1567 2011-04-10 15:04:40 <lfm> kiba that sounds about right
1568 2011-04-10 15:04:43 <LiquidMiner> my be hard to find 1300 5970s ;)
1569 2011-04-10 15:04:53 <zooko> Ah, limited supply, eh? :-)
1570 2011-04-10 15:04:53 <gasteve> hehe
1571 2011-04-10 15:05:01 <Kiba> each of them cost 400 dollars?
1572 2011-04-10 15:05:04 <Kiba> so
1573 2011-04-10 15:05:08 <LiquidMiner> more like 500-600
1574 2011-04-10 15:05:10 <Kiba> 552800 USD
1575 2011-04-10 15:05:13 <lfm> zooko: I think the 5970 draws about 350 watts
1576 2011-04-10 15:05:13 <gasteve> I think if you tried to buy 1382 5970s, the cost of 5970 would rise rapidly
1577 2011-04-10 15:05:18 <genjix> da2ce7: are you around? do you have GPG?
1578 2011-04-10 15:05:31 <zooko> We normally assume that hardware has a 3-year lifespan, so we could figure you have to spend 1/3 of that capital cost every year.
1579 2011-04-10 15:05:43 <Kiba> AMD have the bitcoin mining market sewed up and they don't even know it!
1580 2011-04-10 15:05:45 <zooko> And I think it is common to multiply by 1.1 for operational costs.
1581 2011-04-10 15:05:54 <LiquidMiner> zooko: If t
1582 2011-04-10 15:06:19 <LiquidMiner> zooko: If you would own 1/2 the net capacity, you wouldnt need to do it for long
1583 2011-04-10 15:06:42 <lfm> gasteve: 1400 gpus is like a single massive supercomputing center these days. I dont think it would change the price, just ask AMD to build em for ya, you might even get a volume discount
1584 2011-04-10 15:07:32 the_mad_hatter has joined
1585 2011-04-10 15:07:36 <lfm> LiquidMiner: kinda depends exactly what you want to do, how long it will take
1586 2011-04-10 15:07:38 <Kiba> in essence, you got a supercomputer that is devoted to one problem: hashing
1587 2011-04-10 15:08:59 <gasteve> lfm: prices of 5970s are rising as it is...for whatever reason, it seems AMD isn't able to keep production up with demand
1588 2011-04-10 15:09:20 <gasteve> so, throwing another special production run into the mix is unlikely to lower the price
1589 2011-04-10 15:10:13 <zooko> Thanks, folks.
1590 2011-04-10 15:10:20 <lfm> gasteve: its cuz they are basiclly discontinued. the 6990 is replacing them, the 6990 is faster but not quite as efficient for bitcoin as I understand it. I suspect amd might still make em for ya if you wanted to order 1400 of em tho
1591 2011-04-10 15:10:34 <LiquidMiner> lfm: If I would stop all bitcoin transactions in a month or two, I dont think there would be much users left
1592 2011-04-10 15:11:02 <lfm> LiquidMiner: ya, if thats what you want to do
1593 2011-04-10 15:12:33 <gasteve> what makes you think the 5970 is discontinued?
1594 2011-04-10 15:12:42 <LiquidMiner> btw, I wonder how many you have to order for amd to make bitcoin mining-asic's for you
1595 2011-04-10 15:13:14 <lfm> LiquidMiner: Id expect a lot more than 1400
1596 2011-04-10 15:13:21 <LiquidMiner> yep probably
1597 2011-04-10 15:13:25 <LiquidMiner> more like 100 000
1598 2011-04-10 15:13:46 <LiquidMiner> but then you certainly will own the net
1599 2011-04-10 15:13:55 <lfm> gasteve: just cuz they are getting harder to find
1600 2011-04-10 15:14:16 <LiquidMiner> and because the 6990 is better in games at the same price
1601 2011-04-10 15:14:31 <LiquidMiner> why then make 5970?
1602 2011-04-10 15:14:59 <gasteve> 5970 is $599 at my local Fry's...6990 is like $750
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1605 2011-04-10 15:15:42 <LiquidMiner> oh, thats not the situation here
1606 2011-04-10 15:15:43 <lfm> gasteve: really? is that current?
1607 2011-04-10 15:15:57 <zooko> Is sha256 the gating factor?
1608 2011-04-10 15:16:06 <zooko> There are already sha256 ASICs for sale.
1609 2011-04-10 15:16:06 <lfm> zooko: ya
1610 2011-04-10 15:16:07 <gasteve> yes, but I cleaned them out of their 5970s a week or so ago ;)
1611 2011-04-10 15:16:17 <LiquidMiner> hehe
1612 2011-04-10 15:16:21 <zooko> There's the Sun Ultrasparc T2, and there are a lot of add-on cards
1613 2011-04-10 15:16:24 <gasteve> maybe they'll raise the price when they get more in
1614 2011-04-10 15:16:29 <gasteve> they are also out of 6990
1615 2011-04-10 15:16:32 <LiquidMiner> what performance f those, zooko?
1616 2011-04-10 15:16:38 <zooko> http://www.cast-inc.com/ip-cores/encryption/sha-256/index.html
1617 2011-04-10 15:16:54 <gasteve> but, they still carry lot's of cheaper 5xxx and 6xxxx AMD cards
1618 2011-04-10 15:17:02 <zooko> http://www.arkhamtechnology.com/web/ASICandFPGA.html
1619 2011-04-10 15:17:10 <gasteve> so, I can't see why they'd discontinue the 5970 at this stage
1620 2011-04-10 15:17:11 <lfm> the stock sha256 chips are usually not optimized for use on bitcoin
1621 2011-04-10 15:17:31 <gasteve> (unless they discontinue the entire 5xxx line)
1622 2011-04-10 15:17:50 <zooko> Not optimized in what way?
1623 2011-04-10 15:17:58 <lfm> gasteve: ya they will when they have replacements for the other models too
1624 2011-04-10 15:18:48 <lfm> zooko: the standard chips are optimized for runing one sha256 calc on a long string. bitcoicn runs many hashes on very short strings
1625 2011-04-10 15:19:34 <zooko> Hm.
1626 2011-04-10 15:20:06 <lfm> thats why ArtForz designed his own asic instead of useing standard ones
1627 2011-04-10 15:20:13 <zooko> lfm: surely there is the core SHA-256 compression function in there. Whether there is also padding and length-computation and so on shouldn't make that big a diff.
1628 2011-04-10 15:20:28 <zooko> ArtForz: do you have any documentation about your ASIC design?
1629 2011-04-10 15:20:44 <lfm> zooko: its proprietory for now
1630 2011-04-10 15:20:47 * zooko reads Bai-2009-VLSI_Implementation_of_High-speed_SHA-256.pdf
1631 2011-04-10 15:20:54 <zooko> http://alpha.zooko.com:3458/uri/URI%3ADIR2-RO%3Avnovnwpkecmncyjachu6d46nbe%3A3fz3pn6sx7ckidfzk4sn5gyfbhhglcbs7djgmiexk7klnrtlujya/papers/Latest/crypto/Bai-2009-VLSI_Implementation_of_High-speed_SHA-256.pdf
1632 2011-04-10 15:22:04 <zooko> So Bai 2009 here reports in MB/s
1633 2011-04-10 15:22:07 <zooko> 819 of them
1634 2011-04-10 15:22:17 <lfm> zooko: ok now check its speed against a GPU? remember a bitcoin hash is like doing a hash of 128 bytes sorta
1635 2011-04-10 15:22:30 <zooko> Which if I understand correctly is produced by hashing a 64-input-block message.
1636 2011-04-10 15:23:00 <lfm> ya bitcoin needs at lest 2 blocks for each hash
1637 2011-04-10 15:23:34 <zooko> Which suggests that it ought to be able to do about 25 million one-block hashes per second, ignoring the padding and other issues that I don't understand.
1638 2011-04-10 15:23:44 <zooko> Oh, if BC needs 2 blocks, then that's 12.5 million BTCs per sec.
1639 2011-04-10 15:24:01 <zooko> Oh, I was saying that blocks are of size 32 bytes == 256 bits when I did that arithmetic.
1640 2011-04-10 15:24:06 <lfm> zooko: ok, and my $100 5770 does 160 million btc hashes/s
1641 2011-04-10 15:24:26 <zooko> lfm: fascinating! Why is that I wonder? It has multiple cores, right? Or fancy SIMD?
1642 2011-04-10 15:24:37 <lfm> zooko: ya, the input is 128 bytes, the output is 32 bytes
1643 2011-04-10 15:25:05 <lfm> zooko: ya, the 5770 has 800 cores
1644 2011-04-10 15:25:43 <zooko> So if someone would implement that ASIC design and then put $100 worth of them on one card it would do 12.5 millions hashes per sec times the number of cores.
1645 2011-04-10 15:26:27 <lfm> zooko: ya, not sure how many of those cores you could egt tho
1646 2011-04-10 15:26:56 <lfm> zooko: and there may be extra overhead for it doing short blocks
1647 2011-04-10 15:27:01 * zooko nods.
1648 2011-04-10 15:27:15 <lfm> probably is
1649 2011-04-10 15:28:13 <zooko> Well, I certainly haven't designed my own sha-256 ASIC like ArtForz here, but...
1650 2011-04-10 15:28:23 * zooko looks at http://alpha.zooko.com:3458/uri/URI%3ADIR2-RO%3Avnovnwpkecmncyjachu6d46nbe%3A3fz3pn6sx7ckidfzk4sn5gyfbhhglcbs7djgmiexk7klnrtlujya/papers/Latest/crypto/Baldwin_2010-A_Hardware_Wrapper_for_the_SHA-3_Hash_Algorithms.pdf
1651 2011-04-10 15:28:52 <lfm> I dont think you want sha3, sha256 is a member of the sha2 family
1652 2011-04-10 15:28:56 <zooko> Hm, I'm not sure, but my intuition is
1653 2011-04-10 15:29:05 <zooko> Yeah I know, but that was just a paper about the padding schemes in ASIC.
1654 2011-04-10 15:29:46 <zooko> My intuition is that padding and so on makes a difference only for latency -- how many nanoseconds to do one hash -- but for bandwidth -- how many hashes per second -- you can pipeline it so that it hardly matters.
1655 2011-04-10 15:30:03 <zooko> Okay, time for me to concentrate on Tahoe-LAFS and Family. :-)
1656 2011-04-10 15:30:04 <zooko> Thanks for the chat.
1657 2011-04-10 15:31:05 <lfm> zooko: if you're doing a custom sha256 then the latency doesnt matter. if you're using a standard chip, you may need to do a full reset and reload the vectors for each hash
1658 2011-04-10 15:31:23 <zooko> I see.
1659 2011-04-10 15:31:32 <lfm> so it could be 100s of times slower
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1661 2011-04-10 15:34:19 <zooko> hm
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1668 2011-04-10 15:54:32 <genjix> touching story: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78514#c19
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1679 2011-04-10 16:02:27 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Ehud Ben-Reuven * rdf2dd2..61aa13 iOSApp/ (19 files in 3 dirs): (14 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3mbwnhm
1680 2011-04-10 16:03:26 <Kiba> dun dun dun duua dun
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1685 2011-04-10 16:09:02 <lfm> kiba whats that? Jaws theme?
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1691 2011-04-10 16:14:13 <RBecker> ;;gpg auth
1692 2011-04-10 16:14:13 <gribble> (gpg auth <nick>) -- Initiate authentication for user <nick>. You must have registered a GPG key with the bot for this to work. You will be given a random passphrase to clearsign with your key, and submit to the bot with the 'verify' command. Your passphrase will expire within 5 minutes.
1693 2011-04-10 16:14:18 <RBecker> ;;gpg ident
1694 2011-04-10 16:14:18 <gribble> You are not identified.
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1741 2011-04-10 16:59:06 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stats
1742 2011-04-10 16:59:08 <gribble> Current Blocks: 117688 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 1255 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 0 hours, 26 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 89557.34845799
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1789 2011-04-10 17:45:33 <joepie92> say there would be a site with a very large directory of epub-format ebooks, all categorized and checked etc...
1790 2011-04-10 17:45:41 <joepie92> would you guys be willing to donate to it to maintain upkeep?
1791 2011-04-10 17:45:48 <joepie92> (measuring interest here)
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1800 2011-04-10 18:03:44 <midnightmagic> donate? no, but i might buy otherwise unpublished material in return for bitcoins.
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1802 2011-04-10 18:08:17 <joepie92> mm, idea is to have everything be free
1803 2011-04-10 18:08:35 <joepie92> and just leave some donation info there to support the server costs
1804 2011-04-10 18:08:39 <joepie92> not-for-profit ;)
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1808 2011-04-10 18:10:11 <midnightmagic> are you talking about "copyright-infringing" material?
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1812 2011-04-10 18:14:04 <topi`> what would be the best cpu miner for OSX?
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1815 2011-04-10 18:14:31 <topi`> I tried to compile jgarzik's miner, but I can't get it to build on snow leopard due to some issue in the yasm code
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1817 2011-04-10 18:20:49 <lfm> topi hmm does mac use elf format obj files?
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1820 2011-04-10 18:21:22 <genjix> hey topi`
1821 2011-04-10 18:21:38 <topi`> genjix, how was the day?
1822 2011-04-10 18:21:47 <genjix> :)
1823 2011-04-10 18:21:51 <topi`> lfm: no, mach-o objects (which is the cause of the problem)
1824 2011-04-10 18:21:56 <genjix> should i leave now?
1825 2011-04-10 18:21:57 <lfm> also does mac use the same parameter passing conventions as linux?
1826 2011-04-10 18:22:03 <genjix> and how do i get in?
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1828 2011-04-10 18:22:15 <topi`> I changed yasm's command line to output macho-64 instead, but there was an error about some 32 bit absolute offset.
1829 2011-04-10 18:22:21 <genjix> lyspooner_: hey
1830 2011-04-10 18:22:33 <topi`> genjix: you should come with me :) since I know the password, and you don't :)
1831 2011-04-10 18:22:43 <lyspooner_> hi genjix
1832 2011-04-10 18:22:44 <genjix> topi`: can i PM you an address then?
1833 2011-04-10 18:23:01 <topi`> i'm leaving in 15 minutes, wife is making soup for me
1834 2011-04-10 18:23:04 <topi`> so need to eat first
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1836 2011-04-10 18:23:11 <genjix> kk
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1845 2011-04-10 18:26:54 <lfm> topi so you probably shouldnt try to use the sse2.asm on mac anyway due to different parameter passing
1846 2011-04-10 18:28:23 <lfm> topi the 4way might work if your lucky but otherwise youll have to stick to the c or cryptopp algos
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1848 2011-04-10 18:29:33 <topi`> the 4way was slower
1849 2011-04-10 18:29:53 <topi`> so the sse2.asm ought to be a welcome addition.
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1860 2011-04-10 18:53:58 <[Tycho]> http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/4473693564/bitcoin-usa-failure-to-launch
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1866 2011-04-10 19:11:17 <npouillard> [Tycho]: I was mentioning HTTPS for deepbit.net a few days ago, but couldn't read your answer
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1868 2011-04-10 19:11:39 <npouillard> Great work for this pool BTW
1869 2011-04-10 19:12:10 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: yep! I sad for davidonpda, but very happy that USA's Dept. of Treasury has made a ruling on bitcoin. That helps legitimize bitcoin, in the USA at least.
1870 2011-04-10 19:12:20 skeledrew has joined
1871 2011-04-10 19:13:32 <edcba> what ruling ?
1872 2011-04-10 19:15:24 <justmoon> edcba: It's under Tycho's link: "The exchange stated that it had requested a ruling from the U.S. Department of the Treasury and that the information received in response leads them to believe that bitcoin is classified as a Âstored value instrument."
1873 2011-04-10 19:16:36 <justmoon> jgarzik: I wouldn't call that an official ruling unless davidonpda releases the actual quote and it really says that
1874 2011-04-10 19:16:49 <justmoon> kind of sounds like "stored value" is just what he read into it
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1878 2011-04-10 19:17:37 <jgarzik> justmoon: davidonpda's post indicates they asked for, and received, a ruling.
1879 2011-04-10 19:18:00 <genjix> jgarzik: do you know his contact details?
1880 2011-04-10 19:18:15 <genjix> im trying to setup about 6 exchanges atm, and would appreciate any advice,
1881 2011-04-10 19:18:50 <jgarzik> genjix: dunno other than forum PM
1882 2011-04-10 19:19:01 <justmoon> jgarzik: you're right, in the post he's more straightforward, still would like to read the actual quote from treasury though
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1925 2011-04-10 21:21:54 <insighter> very cool!
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1938 2011-04-10 22:15:57 <hozer> has anyone looked at these: http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/firestream/Pages/firestream.aspx
1939 2011-04-10 22:16:15 <hozer> I'm quite curious how many Ghash/sec they get
1940 2011-04-10 22:17:38 <tcatm> approx. 330 MHash/s for 9370
1941 2011-04-10 22:17:39 <joepie92> lol, nice
1942 2011-04-10 22:17:39 <joepie92> http://twitter.com/Anony_Ops/status/56978162264981504
1943 2011-04-10 22:17:48 <joepie92> bitcoin got some attention (and retweets)
1944 2011-04-10 22:23:15 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1945 2011-04-10 22:24:31 <hozer> tcatm: how about the 9350.. would you guess 220 Mhash or so?
1946 2011-04-10 22:27:04 <Diablo-D3> uh
1947 2011-04-10 22:27:09 <Diablo-D3> you do realize they're not new products right?
1948 2011-04-10 22:27:10 <tcatm> hozer: more like 250
1949 2011-04-10 22:27:20 <Diablo-D3> they're just rebranded normal radeons with extra ram
1950 2011-04-10 22:27:31 <Diablo-D3> they do not increase hashing speed
1951 2011-04-10 22:27:37 <tcatm> hint: 9350 => 5850, 9370 => 5870
1952 2011-04-10 22:28:23 <hozer> Diablo-D3: yes. But will the 5870 do double precision?
1953 2011-04-10 22:28:32 <Diablo-D3> yes
1954 2011-04-10 22:28:35 <Diablo-D3> all 58xx do
1955 2011-04-10 22:28:46 <Diablo-D3> 69xx do dp faster
1956 2011-04-10 22:29:21 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
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1958 2011-04-10 22:29:46 <hozer> anyone got thoughts on the best price/performance 58xx/69xx card at the momemnt?
1959 2011-04-10 22:30:29 <Diablo-D3> 5850, 5870, 6950, 6970
1960 2011-04-10 22:30:40 <midnightmagic> oh hey d-s. beware of some the denizens here, some are.. acerbic.
1961 2011-04-10 22:30:49 <Diablo-D3> and the speed of them is that list reversed
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1963 2011-04-10 22:32:07 <hozer> and 5850 & 5870 do double precision?
1964 2011-04-10 22:32:09 toffoo has joined
1965 2011-04-10 22:32:42 <tcatm> hozer: yep
1966 2011-04-10 22:37:25 <Diablo-D3> oh and
1967 2011-04-10 22:37:31 <Diablo-D3> for the official fuck you to nvidia
1968 2011-04-10 22:37:44 <Diablo-D3> http://pastebin.com/j1iZ5tgk
1969 2011-04-10 22:37:48 <Diablo-D3> nvidia can suck it.
1970 2011-04-10 22:38:15 <Validus> with mining. ati is good. anythign else its shit
1971 2011-04-10 22:38:23 <Validus> or else they would have fixed their beta video driver by now
1972 2011-04-10 22:38:31 <Validus> and actually make their $700 pos work
1973 2011-04-10 22:38:46 <Validus> cuz i was going to buy one till i spent 3 days on amd forums. and nope. no way in hell
1974 2011-04-10 22:38:54 <Diablo-D3> oh, and for those running on bitcoin performance?
1975 2011-04-10 22:39:03 <Diablo-D3> take the sp numbers, and multiply it for 5 for the radeon.
1976 2011-04-10 22:39:08 <Diablo-D3> raaaaaappppeeeeee
1977 2011-04-10 22:39:17 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: thank you for posting that, that's incredible helpful for a small argument i'm having.
1978 2011-04-10 22:39:34 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: well, I did the math to disprove amazon knows... well... anything. at all.
1979 2011-04-10 22:39:48 <Diablo-D3> I mean, you'd think with all the books they sell, they'd read some of them
1980 2011-04-10 22:40:03 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: it's extremely helpful not to have to do all the irritating careful searching to dig those numbers up myself.
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1985 2011-04-10 22:41:55 <hozer> okay, 6950 vs 6970 .... any difference on performance / watt?
1986 2011-04-10 22:42:03 Culinia_ has joined
1987 2011-04-10 22:42:11 <Diablo-D3> none, they're nearly identical
1988 2011-04-10 22:42:13 <Diablo-D3> HOWEVER
1989 2011-04-10 22:42:22 <Diablo-D3> a lot of 6950s can be unlocked to be 6970
1990 2011-04-10 22:42:39 <Diablo-D3> because they werent locked at the manufacturing step, they were locked after manufacturing using a special firmware
1991 2011-04-10 22:42:49 <Diablo-D3> so it really is absolutely identical
1992 2011-04-10 22:42:51 <hozer> oh, they've just downclocked/etc
1993 2011-04-10 22:42:59 <Diablo-D3> nope, not just down clocked
1994 2011-04-10 22:43:05 <hozer> and with cores turned off
1995 2011-04-10 22:43:16 <Diablo-D3> _only_ 6950s (it doesnt apply to anything else) are fabbed almost immaculately
1996 2011-04-10 22:43:34 <Diablo-D3> AMD yield quality was so high they had to, after manufacturing, lock them to be 6950s
1997 2011-04-10 22:43:41 <Diablo-D3> they're really 6970s under the hood
1998 2011-04-10 22:44:05 <ArtForz> except for the memory
1999 2011-04-10 22:44:07 <phantomcircuit> you'd think they'd have an efuse or something
2000 2011-04-10 22:44:25 <Diablo-D3> *50s are always *70s that have been physically locked out during manufacturing
2001 2011-04-10 22:44:26 <hozer> heh, so I'm thinking I might invest in 2 6950's and an MSI motherboard now
2002 2011-04-10 22:44:33 <Diablo-D3> hozer: for what? mining?
2003 2011-04-10 22:44:37 <Diablo-D3> I dont recommend 6xxx for mining
2004 2011-04-10 22:44:52 <hozer> for starters, mining, but having DP is nice
2005 2011-04-10 22:45:08 <Diablo-D3> 69xx is slower per watt than 58xx on mining
2006 2011-04-10 22:45:11 <Diablo-D3> due to software differences
2007 2011-04-10 22:45:15 <Diablo-D3> you cant use SDK 2.1 on 69xx
2008 2011-04-10 22:45:57 <Culinia_> Can you mine on a GTX295?
2009 2011-04-10 22:46:04 <Diablo-D3> Culinia_: yeah, but why bother
2010 2011-04-10 22:46:14 <ArtForz> yes, slowly
2011 2011-04-10 22:46:14 <hozer> well, I can't find 5870/90's on newegg ;)
2012 2011-04-10 22:46:23 <Culinia_> Don't know LOL I am new to this ^^
2013 2011-04-10 22:46:24 <ArtForz> < 90Mh/s
2014 2011-04-10 22:46:38 <Diablo-D3> hozer: they dont have 5890s.
2015 2011-04-10 22:46:55 <Diablo-D3> and I imagine they're all out of stock anyhow
2016 2011-04-10 22:48:10 <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=100007709&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A49753&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A49754
2017 2011-04-10 22:48:13 <Diablo-D3> you were saying?
2018 2011-04-10 22:48:33 <midnightmagic> how much is a 6990 these days anyway.. hrm.. blah $685 CAD. brutal.
2019 2011-04-10 22:48:43 <Diablo-D3> they're less than two 6970s
2020 2011-04-10 22:49:04 <hozer> ack
2021 2011-04-10 22:49:15 <hozer> I apparently can't operate newegg
2022 2011-04-10 22:50:07 <Diablo-D3> and 6950s start at like $220
2023 2011-04-10 22:50:53 <Culinia_> So is ati faster at mining them or something
2024 2011-04-10 22:51:18 <midnightmagic> yah but i'd need more motherboards then..
2025 2011-04-10 22:51:21 <phantomcircuit> lol
2026 2011-04-10 22:51:27 <xelister> Culinia_: yes
2027 2011-04-10 22:52:13 <hozer> okay, MSI R5870 looks like a damn good deal
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2029 2011-04-10 22:53:13 <hozer> what is DP Gigaflops on a 5870
2030 2011-04-10 22:53:17 gribble has joined
2031 2011-04-10 22:53:30 <Diablo-D3> 1/5th of SP? I think
2032 2011-04-10 22:53:54 <ArtForz> yea
2033 2011-04-10 22:54:00 <ArtForz> well, partially
2034 2011-04-10 22:54:08 <hozer> err, what is SP ;)
2035 2011-04-10 22:54:09 <Diablo-D3> and its 2720 mad gflops
2036 2011-04-10 22:54:24 <midnightmagic> http://j.mp/hBAxbJ $200 or so for 5870 here.
2037 2011-04-10 22:54:24 <ArtForz> iirc you can do 2 DP adds at once
2038 2011-04-10 22:55:03 <ArtForz> or one mul, muladd or... pretty much anything
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2040 2011-04-10 22:55:12 <hozer> I'm going for http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127509
2041 2011-04-10 22:55:27 <hozer> I have a 5770 with that heatsink which I quite like
2042 2011-04-10 22:55:40 <phantomcircuit> lol
2043 2011-04-10 22:55:42 <phantomcircuit> newegg.ca
2044 2011-04-10 22:55:52 <phantomcircuit> that's still gonna ship from a warehouse near la
2045 2011-04-10 22:56:12 <Diablo-D3> yeah but at least you dont get fucked on jew taxes
2046 2011-04-10 22:56:14 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: how do I figure out the depth of a caught exception?
2047 2011-04-10 22:56:23 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, in python?
2048 2011-04-10 22:56:26 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: ⦠jew taxes?
2049 2011-04-10 22:56:28 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: yes
2050 2011-04-10 22:56:30 <Diablo-D3> ITS OVER NINE THOOUUSSAAANNND
2051 2011-04-10 22:56:36 <midnightmagic> http://j.mp/fEsJor oh here we go. $162 CAD for 6950. you say they can be firmware's into 6870s? lol
2052 2011-04-10 22:56:38 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: dude, dont be racist, they have jews in canada too
2053 2011-04-10 22:56:47 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, there's no taxes on newegg for anything shipped out of california
2054 2011-04-10 22:56:56 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: sounds like Canuck taxes then
2055 2011-04-10 22:57:01 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: it is
2056 2011-04-10 22:57:04 <luke-jr> â¦
2057 2011-04-10 22:57:09 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: before newegg.ca, there were.
2058 2011-04-10 22:57:11 <midnightmagic> hrm?
2059 2011-04-10 22:57:16 <Diablo-D3> you had to pay insane import taxes
2060 2011-04-10 22:57:20 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, that's like 1000% illegal
2061 2011-04-10 22:57:24 <phantomcircuit> OH
2062 2011-04-10 22:57:29 <phantomcircuit> they registered as a canadian company
2063 2011-04-10 22:57:34 <phantomcircuit> that ships from la
2064 2011-04-10 22:57:37 <phantomcircuit> to avoid taxes
2065 2011-04-10 22:57:39 <phantomcircuit> that's dumb
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2067 2011-04-10 22:57:49 <phantomcircuit> bureaucracy hoe!
2068 2011-04-10 22:57:57 <midnightmagic> and.. how do you know it ships out of LA?
2069 2011-04-10 22:58:04 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, im not 100% sure you can, lets see
2070 2011-04-10 22:58:04 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: yup.
2071 2011-04-10 22:58:09 <Diablo-D3> btw, its not "LA"
2072 2011-04-10 22:58:13 <Diablo-D3> its really the city of industry
2073 2011-04-10 22:58:17 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, yeah i know but it's close enough
2074 2011-04-10 22:58:24 <Diablo-D3> and they have a place in nj as well
2075 2011-04-10 22:58:31 <phantomcircuit> oh they do?
2076 2011-04-10 22:58:46 <Diablo-D3> yeah, Ive gotten a shippment from all three of their original werehouses
2077 2011-04-10 22:58:52 <Diablo-D3> the two in industry, and the one thats in nj
2078 2011-04-10 22:58:56 <Diablo-D3> they have more now
2079 2011-04-10 22:59:44 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i dont think you can, why?
2080 2011-04-10 23:00:20 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I want to pass a limit= to traceback.print_exc() that doesn't show the catching stack
2081 2011-04-10 23:00:37 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, there's a whole thing about some town near la that was incorporated by corporations for the sole purpose of avoiding local taxes
2082 2011-04-10 23:00:48 <phantomcircuit> the state legislature is trying to unincorporate them
2083 2011-04-10 23:01:05 <Diablo-D3> lolnice
2084 2011-04-10 23:01:08 <Diablo-D3> but heres the thing
2085 2011-04-10 23:01:09 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, eh why?
2086 2011-04-10 23:01:12 <Diablo-D3> I cant blame the companies
2087 2011-04-10 23:01:30 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: "because"?
2088 2011-04-10 23:01:33 <Diablo-D3> they're required by congressional law to make as much profit as possible
2089 2011-04-10 23:01:39 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, the irony is that the same people trying to do this are also supporting the reduction of taxes for twitter in san francisco
2090 2011-04-10 23:01:43 <Diablo-D3> its like all the people who form LLCs out of arizona or some shit
2091 2011-04-10 23:02:08 <phantomcircuit> all the animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others
2092 2011-04-10 23:03:11 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, so basically you want to print everything but the final catching stack?
2093 2011-04-10 23:03:42 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, traceback.extract_tb()
2094 2011-04-10 23:03:57 <phantomcircuit> then format_list
2095 2011-04-10 23:04:05 <phantomcircuit> i think
2096 2011-04-10 23:04:18 <phantomcircuit> honestly i mostly just let exceptions bubble up
2097 2011-04-10 23:04:28 <phantomcircuit> i only catch exceptions i can actually handle
2098 2011-04-10 23:05:33 <midnightmagic> what's the name of that town incorporated by corps?
2099 2011-04-10 23:06:23 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: well, this is just going to display an error message :P
2100 2011-04-10 23:07:09 * midnightmagic rpods Diablo-D3.
2101 2011-04-10 23:08:38 <hozer> what sort of mhash is a 5870 going to get.. 300?
2102 2011-04-10 23:08:58 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, city of industry...
2103 2011-04-10 23:09:11 <phantomcircuit> It was incorporated on June 18, 1957 to prevent surrounding cities from annexing industrial land for tax revenue.
2104 2011-04-10 23:09:21 <Diablo-D3> hozer: 330 or so
2105 2011-04-10 23:09:26 <midnightmagic> oh, the actual name is "city of industry" hilarious.
2106 2011-04-10 23:09:26 amiller has joined
2107 2011-04-10 23:09:34 <Diablo-D3> yes the actual name is city of indistry
2108 2011-04-10 23:09:39 <phantomcircuit> well
2109 2011-04-10 23:09:43 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: in case you're interested, I wrote a simple KRunner plugin for Python expressions
2110 2011-04-10 23:09:46 <phantomcircuit> technically it's just Industry,CA
2111 2011-04-10 23:09:47 <midnightmagic> so awesome.
2112 2011-04-10 23:09:56 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: well no, technically, its City of Industry
2113 2011-04-10 23:10:00 <Diablo-D3> read your UPS labels
2114 2011-04-10 23:10:02 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: so Alt-F2 opens the usual Run dialog, and I can just type py=<expression> to get an immediate eval
2115 2011-04-10 23:10:05 <Diablo-D3> I was always like
2116 2011-04-10 23:10:10 <Diablo-D3> "so, its the City of City of Industry?"
2117 2011-04-10 23:10:29 danbri has joined
2118 2011-04-10 23:10:30 purpleposeidon has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2119 2011-04-10 23:11:03 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, no it's technically Industry,CA, but everybody calls it city of industry
2120 2011-04-10 23:11:09 <lfm> ya sounds like a motto or something
2121 2011-04-10 23:11:15 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, it's actually incorporated as just Industry
2122 2011-04-10 23:11:25 <Diablo-D3> well, even ups calls it that
2123 2011-04-10 23:11:34 <Diablo-D3> they dont print City of Shit, NJ or whatever
2124 2011-04-10 23:11:46 <phantomcircuit> yeah
2125 2011-04-10 23:11:48 <phantomcircuit> well
2126 2011-04-10 23:11:52 <phantomcircuit> it's technically industry
2127 2011-04-10 23:11:58 devrandom has joined
2128 2011-04-10 23:12:03 <phantomcircuit> but nobody calls it that
2129 2011-04-10 23:13:16 <midnightmagic> well! how about that..!
2130 2011-04-10 23:13:25 <midnightmagic> i wonder if they could get away with that in canada. :)
2131 2011-04-10 23:14:00 <lfm> lots of people call nj shit
2132 2011-04-10 23:15:54 <phantomcircuit> nj is pretty nice in the south actually
2133 2011-04-10 23:16:10 <midnightmagic> a friend of mine lives there, and i'm pretty sure he wouldn't if he didn't like it.
2134 2011-04-10 23:16:33 <phantomcircuit> nj has pockets of heavy industry that is dirty as fuck
2135 2011-04-10 23:16:46 <Diablo-D3> THE EMPIRE OF SHIT, NEW JERSEY
2136 2011-04-10 23:16:55 <phantomcircuit> like places where the air is literally yellow
2137 2011-04-10 23:17:41 <lfm> if you address stuff to City of Toronto it will still go to Toronto. its not a different place
2138 2011-04-10 23:17:51 davidsarah has left ()
2139 2011-04-10 23:19:02 <Diablo-D3> http://whotookspaz.org/randomflash/Rise-round-baby.swf
2140 2011-04-10 23:19:03 <Diablo-D3> and now
2141 2011-04-10 23:19:04 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2142 2011-04-10 23:19:06 <Diablo-D3> a spinning maid
2143 2011-04-10 23:19:08 subpar has joined
2144 2011-04-10 23:19:20 <tcatm> yay, I sent bitcoins to mtgox and got 5 blocks in 4 minutes just after the tx
2145 2011-04-10 23:20:10 skeledrew has joined
2146 2011-04-10 23:20:11 * Kiba wonders how many HN stories for bitcoin there is
2147 2011-04-10 23:20:46 <lfm> jackpot
2148 2011-04-10 23:23:27 <lfm> hn?
2149 2011-04-10 23:23:43 <Kiba> we got 224 guests and 45 users
2150 2011-04-10 23:23:48 <Kiba> hacker news
2151 2011-04-10 23:23:59 <Kiba> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2430652
2152 2011-04-10 23:24:08 <phantomcircuit> im just now realizing that my "server" is too slow for much more than 10 users simultaneously
2153 2011-04-10 23:24:11 <phantomcircuit> oh P4
2154 2011-04-10 23:24:16 <phantomcircuit> you shall soon be retired
2155 2011-04-10 23:24:17 <Kiba> Bitcoin regularly appears at Hacker News, Reddit, and Slashdot
2156 2011-04-10 23:24:30 <phantomcircuit> i've only seen 3 /. articles for bitcoin actually
2157 2011-04-10 23:24:34 <phantomcircuit> and im pretty much addicted
2158 2011-04-10 23:24:57 <lfm> ya twice a year is regular
2159 2011-04-10 23:25:21 <Kiba> there's 27 submissions on HN for bitcoin
2160 2011-04-10 23:25:37 <phantomcircuit> lol
2161 2011-04-10 23:26:02 <jrabbit> tbh it's hacker news' economic bias.
2162 2011-04-10 23:26:49 <Kiba> well, we get more traffic and more traffic!
2163 2011-04-10 23:26:58 <lfm> puff pieces
2164 2011-04-10 23:27:31 <Blitzboom> 307 online in the forums?
2165 2011-04-10 23:27:38 <Blitzboom> how come?
2166 2011-04-10 23:27:52 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2167 2011-04-10 23:27:54 <lfm> the counter is stuck
2168 2011-04-10 23:28:43 <phantomcircuit> lol
2169 2011-04-10 23:29:59 zooko has joined
2170 2011-04-10 23:30:24 <Kiba> Blitzboom: Hacker News
2171 2011-04-10 23:31:07 <Blitzboom> well, weâve been on top of hacker news before lately
2172 2011-04-10 23:31:23 <Blitzboom> 340 now
2173 2011-04-10 23:31:38 <Blitzboom> strange
2174 2011-04-10 23:31:52 <Kiba> Blitzboom: it's directed at a forum record instead of the front page
2175 2011-04-10 23:31:59 <Kiba> err
2176 2011-04-10 23:32:00 <Kiba> forum post
2177 2011-04-10 23:32:01 <Blitzboom> ah, i see
2178 2011-04-10 23:33:32 <Kiba> I think the Google story
2179 2011-04-10 23:33:38 <Kiba> went around at least 3-4 times
2180 2011-04-10 23:34:00 <Kiba> Bitcoin is very viral
2181 2011-04-10 23:35:57 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2182 2011-04-10 23:37:43 <Blitzboom> 398, lol
2183 2011-04-10 23:37:48 <Blitzboom> impressive
2184 2011-04-10 23:37:49 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2185 2011-04-10 23:41:26 [oHwHo] has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2186 2011-04-10 23:42:23 [oHwHo] has joined
2187 2011-04-10 23:42:29 <phantomcircuit> the forum user count should just always be a random number between 200 and 500
2188 2011-04-10 23:42:36 <phantomcircuit> make it look like there's lots of users
2189 2011-04-10 23:42:37 <phantomcircuit> xD
2190 2011-04-10 23:42:52 [oHwHo] has quit (Client Quit)
2191 2011-04-10 23:44:28 <phantomcircuit> i just realized i can hear the hdd from my "server" about 20 ft away from it
2192 2011-04-10 23:44:31 <phantomcircuit> bad sign is bad
2193 2011-04-10 23:46:10 BitterTea has quit (Quit: leaving)
2194 2011-04-10 23:48:28 <Kiba> phantomcircuit: that's now the case anyway
2195 2011-04-10 23:48:34 Strom- has joined
2196 2011-04-10 23:48:40 <Kiba> lol
2197 2011-04-10 23:48:43 <Kiba> 468
2198 2011-04-10 23:49:13 <phantomcircuit> nah bro it's an i686
2199 2011-04-10 23:49:19 <phantomcircuit> even has mmx/sse/sse2
2200 2011-04-10 23:49:21 <Kiba> nine posts to 1248 views
2201 2011-04-10 23:49:22 <Kiba> lol
2202 2011-04-10 23:49:25 <phantomcircuit> although sse doesnt actually work
2203 2011-04-10 23:49:58 <phantomcircuit> i built openssl with mmx/sse/sse2 support and it just randomly crashed
2204 2011-04-10 23:50:00 <phantomcircuit> i was like
2205 2011-04-10 23:50:04 <phantomcircuit> >:|
2206 2011-04-10 23:50:35 Strom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)