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15 2011-04-11 00:30:31 <thermal> does bitcoin still use IRC for bootstrapping?
16 2011-04-11 00:30:38 <Kiba> I think so
17 2011-04-11 00:30:47 <thermal> because no offence, but that's a really stupid idea
18 2011-04-11 00:30:48 <ArtForz> yes
19 2011-04-11 00:30:53 <ArtForz> why?
20 2011-04-11 00:31:01 <ArtForz> do you have any better idea?
21 2011-04-11 00:31:02 <thermal> especially considering how brilliant the rest of it is
22 2011-04-11 00:31:09 <Kiba> you're welcome to improve it
23 2011-04-11 00:31:28 <thermal> how about, something specifically designed for bitcoin bootstrapping?
24 2011-04-11 00:31:33 <ArtForz> boostrap problem is bootstrap problem, stays bootstrap problem
25 2011-04-11 00:32:00 <ArtForz> and... what would that improve?
26 2011-04-11 00:32:03 <Kiba> there's like a thousand solution for fixing the bootstrap problem
27 2011-04-11 00:32:05 <Kiba> go read them
28 2011-04-11 00:32:05 <bd_> IRC has the advantage of being historically hard to shut down, but if you wanted some alternate bootstrap method it wouldn't be hard to make one
29 2011-04-11 00:32:18 <thermal> how about DHT?
30 2011-04-11 00:32:23 <bd_> ArtForz: bandwidth usage, load on the IRC network, etc
31 2011-04-11 00:32:41 <bd_> thermal: What data will you be looking up, with what keys, exactly?
32 2011-04-11 00:32:45 <ArtForz> thermal: and how do you find the first dht peer... oh, right
33 2011-04-11 00:32:59 <ArtForz> so you replaced a bootzstrap problem with... another bootstrap problem, yay!
34 2011-04-11 00:33:13 <thermal> ok how about a bittorrent tracker-like approach?
35 2011-04-11 00:33:23 <bd_> But really, bootstrapping is trivial. Build a HTTP server somewhere that lets you register your IP/port for a certain amount of time, and hands back a bunch of random registered hosts.
36 2011-04-11 00:33:31 alystair has joined
37 2011-04-11 00:33:33 <ArtForz> so... we hardcode a loiust of bootstrap nodes... wait... we already do that
38 2011-04-11 00:33:35 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,stat
39 2011-04-11 00:33:35 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
40 2011-04-11 00:33:40 <Mango-chan> ;;bc,stats
41 2011-04-11 00:33:40 <thermal> very simple design and simply returns a pool of clients that have registered
42 2011-04-11 00:33:42 <gribble> Current Blocks: 117736 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 1207 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 17 hours, 44 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 89322.66622298
43 2011-04-11 00:34:01 sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
44 2011-04-11 00:34:08 <ArtForz> thermal: and who chooses which http servers are the blessed bootstrap servers?
45 2011-04-11 00:34:12 <bd_> Or just remove the IRC component we have now, and have new clients get peers off a hardcoded bootstrap peer (downside: network tends to cluster too much around bootstrap node)
46 2011-04-11 00:34:34 <ArtForz> actually that would work
47 2011-04-11 00:34:34 <bd_> ArtForz: Well, you can have more than one, but really, any bootstrap system will ALWAYS have the problem of who you connect to first
48 2011-04-11 00:34:34 <thermal> using IRC the way it's being used by bitcoin is so very similar to how botnets make use of IRC
49 2011-04-11 00:34:39 <luke-jr> thermal: next version uses DNS round-robins
50 2011-04-11 00:34:45 <bd_> So don't attack that aspect, because every implementation will have it
51 2011-04-11 00:34:46 <ArtForz> just create a bitcoin not-quite-a-node that just keeps track of addr()s and hands a bunch to everyone that asks
52 2011-04-11 00:34:59 <bd_> But yes, IRC usage can set off ISP red flags
53 2011-04-11 00:35:05 <thermal> the same way you're choosing the IRC server at present
54 2011-04-11 00:35:06 <ArtForz> would be pretty lightweigth, and adding a bunch of those to the hardcoded peer list or the DNs round-robins wouldnt hurt either
55 2011-04-11 00:35:19 <bd_> it's also wasteful of bandwidth. You don't need PINGs every 5 minutes, you don't need to know when every node connects or disconnects
56 2011-04-11 00:35:20 <thermal> or yeah, round robin :)
57 2011-04-11 00:35:43 <luke-jr> there's a couple of hard-coded DNS names that get queried for peers
58 2011-04-11 00:35:47 <ArtForz> I have to check how a node reacts to it, but I think it should work
59 2011-04-11 00:35:58 <thermal> ok how about...
60 2011-04-11 00:36:02 <ArtForz> basically throw a few dozen addr()s at every connecting node and kick it
61 2011-04-11 00:36:19 <ArtForz> iirc it should then try those first
62 2011-04-11 00:36:22 <thermal> a customised DNS daemon that adds a client's address to the pool when the domain is queried
63 2011-04-11 00:36:37 <thermal> and returns TXT records with other clients
64 2011-04-11 00:36:38 <ArtForz> having a bunch of these wouldnt have all peers cluster on bootstrap nodes even though they use the p2p proto
65 2011-04-11 00:36:43 <bd_> thermal: You're planning on adding the user's ISP's DNS server to the pool? :)
66 2011-04-11 00:36:50 <luke-jr> thermal: ⦠A and AAAA work fine
67 2011-04-11 00:37:02 <bd_> luke-jr: A and AAAA do not include port numbers.
68 2011-04-11 00:37:05 <ArtForz> thermal: yes,l that sounds like... totally simple
69 2011-04-11 00:37:17 <bd_> But that's beside the point, DNS is a bad idea because of the layers of caching involved.
70 2011-04-11 00:37:17 <ArtForz> feel free to write it and submit a patch
71 2011-04-11 00:37:23 <luke-jr> bd_: true, but Bitcoin doesn't allow port numbers other than 8333 right now
72 2011-04-11 00:37:27 <thermal> bd_: it could always be something like <my_address>.blahblah.bootstrap.bitcoin.org
73 2011-04-11 00:37:30 <bd_> If you look at the request's source address, you'll get the ISP's server.
74 2011-04-11 00:37:35 <bd_> thermal: Then why use DNS?
75 2011-04-11 00:37:40 <thermal> very efficient
76 2011-04-11 00:37:50 <thermal> and very well supported
77 2011-04-11 00:37:52 <bd_> Just write your own UDP protocol if you're going to do that
78 2011-04-11 00:37:59 <bd_> it's far, far easier than writing a DNS server
79 2011-04-11 00:38:16 <thermal> wouldn't DNS get through proxies more easily?
80 2011-04-11 00:38:18 <luke-jr> just have riots if your ISP doesn't enable multicast
81 2011-04-11 00:38:31 <bd_> thermal: If you're worried about proxy traversal just use TCP then
82 2011-04-11 00:38:34 <ArtForz> again, we already have a way for handing a node addresses of other nodes via the p2p proto, why invent *another* proto?
83 2011-04-11 00:38:46 <luke-jr> bd_: actually, DNS gets through more
84 2011-04-11 00:39:00 <bd_> luke-jr: If you can't get TCP through, you can't connect to the node addresses you just got
85 2011-04-11 00:39:06 <ArtForz> dude, what point is a bitcoin node behind a firewall if it *cant connect outgoing to 8333*
86 2011-04-11 00:39:08 <luke-jr> ArtForz: still need DNS in case that central server moves
87 2011-04-11 00:39:12 <thermal> i don't really mind too much, but IRC just leaves a bad taste in my mouth
88 2011-04-11 00:39:15 <luke-jr> bd_: true
89 2011-04-11 00:39:21 gjs278 has joined
90 2011-04-11 00:39:23 <luke-jr> bd_: TCP over DNS :D
91 2011-04-11 00:39:49 <bd_> luke-jr: Further, DNS is not a simple protocol. And there are a lot of servers out there that are not quite compliant.
92 2011-04-11 00:40:03 <bd_> ISP servers may choose to ignore TTL and cache longer
93 2011-04-11 00:40:06 <luke-jr> bd_: iodine handles it ok
94 2011-04-11 00:40:16 <bd_> which is a bad thing for those peers being cached longer than they should
95 2011-04-11 00:40:27 <thermal> bd_: that's true unfortunately
96 2011-04-11 00:40:30 <bd_> many DNS servers don't actually round-robin requests, always returning them in the same order
97 2011-04-11 00:40:36 <luke-jr> bd_: if you used the source-IP in the request, obviously that wouldn't cache much
98 2011-04-11 00:40:50 <luke-jr> http://code.kryo.se/iodine/
99 2011-04-11 00:40:58 <thermal> but a unique domain could be used for each request
100 2011-04-11 00:41:00 <luke-jr> embed that? :P
101 2011-04-11 00:41:04 <bd_> luke-jr: Perhaps. But I'm still not seeing why you'd shoehorn it onto DNS when a simple HTTP request to a cgi script would work fine
102 2011-04-11 00:41:36 <bd_> It would also lower the barrier of entry to setting up a bootstrap server - any random shared host can do HTTP. You'd be hard pressed to find one that can do non-static DNS though
103 2011-04-11 00:42:07 <thermal> bd_: HTTP request headers can be kind of bulky, although i suppose only the essentials could be used
104 2011-04-11 00:42:09 <bd_> Basically, using DNS smells like overengineering because it sounds cool :)
105 2011-04-11 00:42:28 <bd_> thermal: You're firing off one of these requests maybe once per hour. Or less. I don't think it'll be a problem.
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107 2011-04-11 00:43:01 <thermal> yeah i agree, a simple HTTP request would suffice
108 2011-04-11 00:43:03 <bd_> And the only mandatory header is Host:
109 2011-04-11 00:43:20 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
110 2011-04-11 00:43:23 <thermal> with a simple request convention and response format
111 2011-04-11 00:43:25 <bd_> GET /b\r\nHost: bootstrap.bitcoin.org\r\n\r\n
112 2011-04-11 00:43:32 <bd_> err, plus a HTTP/1.1 there
113 2011-04-11 00:44:20 <thermal> extensibility should be provided for, too
114 2011-04-11 00:45:03 <thermal> part of the GET perhaps. e.g.: GET /1/<other stuff> HTTP/1.0
115 2011-04-11 00:45:26 <thermal> then GET /2/<other stuff> HTTP/1.0 for the next version (if there ever is one)
116 2011-04-11 00:45:34 <bd_> thermal: that's what HTTP headers are for ;)
117 2011-04-11 00:46:06 <thermal> yeah i suppose worrying about ~10 bytes in todays age won't really make a difference
118 2011-04-11 00:46:28 <bd_> GET /b\r\nHost: bootstrap.bitcoin.org\r\nX-Bitcoin-Petaflops: 9001\r\nX-Bitcoin-Wallet-Size: 40cm\r\nX-Bitcoin-FBI-File-Size: 9 kLOC\r\n\r\n
119 2011-04-11 00:46:36 <thermal> unless it becomes the global standard in 15 years and amounts to 10 extra terabytes each day :P
120 2011-04-11 00:46:51 <thermal> global standard for currency exchange *
121 2011-04-11 00:46:52 <thermal> :p
122 2011-04-11 00:47:04 <bd_> bootstrap protocols are relatively easy to change if need be
123 2011-04-11 00:47:17 <bd_> set up new protocol, have it exchange peers with the old server
124 2011-04-11 00:47:19 <thermal> haha what with the version identifier?
125 2011-04-11 00:47:35 <thermal> either way will work
126 2011-04-11 00:47:45 joepie92 is now known as joepie91
127 2011-04-11 00:47:49 <bd_> /b there wasn't the version identifier, it was the URL of the server :)
128 2011-04-11 00:47:51 <bd_> however
129 2011-04-11 00:48:03 <bd_> version choice should be negotiated by HTTP Accept: headers if it becomes necessary
130 2011-04-11 00:48:07 <thermal> i need to go :/ will be back to discuss this exciting protocol more later :D
131 2011-04-11 00:48:15 <bd_> extra client->server info in the headers, extra server->client negotiated with Accept:
132 2011-04-11 00:49:05 <bd_> Accept: application/x-bitcoin-boot-v2, application/x-bitcoin-boot
133 2011-04-11 00:49:26 <bd_> Or even
134 2011-04-11 00:49:37 <bd_> Accept: application/x-bitcoin-boot;level=1, application/x-bitcoin-boot;level=2
135 2011-04-11 00:50:57 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
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138 2011-04-11 01:01:46 <thermal> each client entry should be extensible so that as well as IPv4/6 address there can also be stuff like 'can accept incoming connections' flag
139 2011-04-11 01:02:10 <thermal> they could then be prioritized or something
140 2011-04-11 01:02:23 <thermal> bbl
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147 2011-04-11 01:15:58 <luke-jr> thermal: it's not sending that will be annoying
148 2011-04-11 01:16:13 <luke-jr> you'll need a whole HTTP client lib to handle the valid responses
149 2011-04-11 01:16:42 <phantomcircuit> thermal, the current protocol has a "services" bitfield
150 2011-04-11 01:17:24 <luke-jr> especially chunked encoding, which is required
151 2011-04-11 01:17:52 <luke-jr> but really, ArtForz's idea seems ideal
152 2011-04-11 01:18:55 <phantomcircuit> what was his idea
153 2011-04-11 01:19:05 <ArtForz> just use the existing p2p proto
154 2011-04-11 01:19:10 <phantomcircuit> yeah
155 2011-04-11 01:19:11 <phantomcircuit> well
156 2011-04-11 01:19:13 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: just have a "peer directory server" be a stripped down node
157 2011-04-11 01:19:45 <phantomcircuit> oh
158 2011-04-11 01:19:46 <ArtForz> create simple dedicated bootstrap nodes in python, php or whatever that just hand out a bunch of addr()s and kick anyone who connects to them
159 2011-04-11 01:19:50 <phantomcircuit> yeah that would be trivial
160 2011-04-11 01:19:53 <luke-jr> actually
161 2011-04-11 01:20:03 <luke-jr> there might be good reason to use UDP, except that we only need to do this once
162 2011-04-11 01:20:07 <luke-jr> UDP supports anycast ;)
163 2011-04-11 01:20:09 <phantomcircuit> was someone thinking that was necessary ?
164 2011-04-11 01:20:31 <phantomcircuit> because ill create a stripped down version of my python client that could do that pretty easily
165 2011-04-11 01:20:40 <ArtForz> well, it would make creating long-lived lightweight bootstrap nodes a lot easier
166 2011-04-11 01:20:42 <phantomcircuit> on connect it would send addr
167 2011-04-11 01:20:48 <ArtForz> basically could run on any cheap VPS
168 2011-04-11 01:20:52 <phantomcircuit> then forcibly disconnect
169 2011-04-11 01:20:55 purpleposeidon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
170 2011-04-11 01:21:34 <ArtForz> a normal node needs a lot more disk/memory/bandwidth
171 2011-04-11 01:22:21 <ArtForz> actually you might also want to check that those addrs you hand out actually accept incoming connections
172 2011-04-11 01:22:22 <lfm> is normal bitcoin mode too much disk? memory? or bandwidth? for cheap vps?
173 2011-04-11 01:22:42 <ArtForz> memory and bandwidth mostly
174 2011-04-11 01:22:59 <ArtForz> especially as normally you grab the block chain from the first node you connect to
175 2011-04-11 01:24:09 <luke-jr> an uninitialized client should use BitTorrent to download the existing blocks
176 2011-04-11 01:24:10 <luke-jr> <.<
177 2011-04-11 01:24:20 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, you should be able to run a client without very much memory of bandwidth
178 2011-04-11 01:24:41 <ArtForz> well, a "simple" improved block chain downloader that spreads it over all peers would already help a lot
179 2011-04-11 01:24:44 <phantomcircuit> so accessing arbitrary blocks/transactions becomes very expensive
180 2011-04-11 01:27:02 <lfm> i have 120 connections and using 450MB virt and 120MB resident
181 2011-04-11 01:27:13 <lfm> memory
182 2011-04-11 01:27:21 <phantomcircuit> lfm, that's because all of the transactions/blocks are cached in memory
183 2011-04-11 01:27:45 <lfm> but would that run on a cheap vps?
184 2011-04-11 01:27:52 <[Tycho]> ArtForz, are single-rail PSUs better for mining or worse ?
185 2011-04-11 01:28:14 <phantomcircuit> lfm, depends on how you define cheap
186 2011-04-11 01:28:22 <phantomcircuit> that would not run on luke-jr's cheapest option
187 2011-04-11 01:28:34 <lfm> [Tycho]: huh? if the psu doesnt fail it works
188 2011-04-11 01:28:37 <phantomcircuit> although the swapping wouldn't likely be very expensive
189 2011-04-11 01:29:28 <lfm> phantomcircuit: the cheapest?
190 2011-04-11 01:30:27 <phantomcircuit> http://lightfoot.dashjr.org/?page=vps¤cy=BTC
191 2011-04-11 01:30:33 <phantomcircuit> 32MB of ram :|
192 2011-04-11 01:30:35 <phantomcircuit> ;)
193 2011-04-11 01:30:37 <robblesz> sheesh, bitcoin is really hard to compile. I finally got it working
194 2011-04-11 01:31:01 Lycurgus has joined
195 2011-04-11 01:31:02 <phantomcircuit> robblesz, you *think* you finally got it working
196 2011-04-11 01:31:02 <lfm> robblesz: ya we know, sorry and wtg
197 2011-04-11 01:31:11 <robblesz> phantomcircuit: heh exactly
198 2011-04-11 01:32:45 sshc has joined
199 2011-04-11 01:33:27 <lfm> phantomcircuit: ok, lloks like you might want to go up to the 19btc/month level or so
200 2011-04-11 01:33:30 <ArtForz> [Tycho]: doesnt matter really
201 2011-04-11 01:33:40 <ArtForz> single/multirail is mainly marketing BS
202 2011-04-11 01:34:10 <ArtForz> any decent modern PSU has current limit on each rail high enough that it shouldnt ever matter
203 2011-04-11 01:34:24 <phantomcircuit> lfm, me? no i'd just run my python client with is ~ 32MB resident
204 2011-04-11 01:34:47 <[Tycho]> I was wondering if those single-rail PSUs have some special purpose :)
205 2011-04-11 01:34:53 <phantomcircuit> spikes to about 50MB when staging 500 block chunks for the db
206 2011-04-11 01:35:11 Shfork has joined
207 2011-04-11 01:35:28 * [Tycho] is going to build some dual-5970 rigs
208 2011-04-11 01:36:45 <lfm> [Tycho]: about all is the single rail might be easier to work with cuz you dont have to fiddle with different cables on different rails and spreading the load
209 2011-04-11 01:37:58 <ArtForz> true, at the same time you dont risk welding stuff if something shorts out ;)
210 2011-04-11 01:38:19 <lfm> [Tycho]: not really anything to do with bitcoin, just the same as any build
211 2011-04-11 01:39:42 <[Tycho]> I just never play high-end games so using power-hungry GPUs is a bit new to me. I already have some, but not much.
212 2011-04-11 01:39:45 <robblesz> How stable would you guys consider the git tip? Enough to connect to the network?
213 2011-04-11 01:40:04 <phantomcircuit> robblesz, yes
214 2011-04-11 01:40:31 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
215 2011-04-11 01:40:41 <[Tycho]> ArtForz, how it's related to risk ? There should be overcurrent protection anyway ?
216 2011-04-11 01:40:54 <robblesz> Ah good, thanks phantom
217 2011-04-11 01:42:13 <ArtForz> well, OCP on each rail of a multirail is usually 30-40A
218 2011-04-11 01:42:25 <ArtForz> with a decent single rail, OCP is somewhere north of 100A
219 2011-04-11 01:43:54 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
220 2011-04-11 01:43:56 <gribble> Current Blocks: 117742 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 1201 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 17 hours, 9 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 89165.04235176
221 2011-04-11 01:44:33 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
222 2011-04-11 01:45:16 <[Tycho]> ArtForz, what power rating would you recommend for 2x5970 ?
223 2011-04-11 01:45:38 <ArtForz> 800-850W to be on the safe side
224 2011-04-11 01:45:47 <[Tycho]> Thanks.
225 2011-04-11 01:46:49 <[Tycho]> Last time i got 750W because didn't knew that bitcoins will be still alive and i'll want to mine more :)
226 2011-04-11 01:50:03 <lfm> thats pretty close, did it fail?
227 2011-04-11 01:51:29 tower has joined
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229 2011-04-11 01:54:20 <[Tycho]> No, but there is only 5870+5970 in that PC.
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240 2011-04-11 02:01:20 purpleposeidon has joined
241 2011-04-11 02:02:58 <Guest1234> Any DSLR users here wish to assist this users request to accept bitcoin? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25722480-Will-DSLR-accept-BTC-for-tool-points
242 2011-04-11 02:04:53 phantomcircuit has joined
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250 2011-04-11 02:38:14 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stats
251 2011-04-11 02:38:16 <gribble> Current Blocks: 117750 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 1193 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 89626.49749582
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262 2011-04-11 03:13:16 bikcmp has joined
263 2011-04-11 03:21:18 <bikcmp> out of curiousity
264 2011-04-11 03:21:25 <bikcmp> i looked at the source for bitcoin.
265 2011-04-11 03:21:31 <bikcmp> i connected to the irc net it was using
266 2011-04-11 03:21:32 <bikcmp> and, like
267 2011-04-11 03:21:38 <bikcmp> all the bots are dying of sendq errors
268 2011-04-11 03:21:38 <bikcmp> lol
269 2011-04-11 03:22:48 <nanotube> bikcmp: mmm thanks for pointing it out. :)
270 2011-04-11 03:22:56 <nanotube> someone should... patch that.
271 2011-04-11 03:23:03 <bikcmp> looks like it's.. nvm
272 2011-04-11 03:23:04 <nanotube> good thing irc is only one of the possible bootstrapping methods. :)
273 2011-04-11 03:23:06 purpleposeidon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
274 2011-04-11 03:24:08 Warlord has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
275 2011-04-11 03:26:35 <lfm> bikcmp: you wouldn't happen to have some idea why this was suddenly happening now would you?
276 2011-04-11 03:28:04 <AAA_awright> I thought IRC was taken out
277 2011-04-11 03:28:12 <AAA_awright> What is this about
278 2011-04-11 03:28:39 <lfm> AAA_awright: only if you use -noirq or -connect command line options
279 2011-04-11 03:28:55 <AAA_awright> No, like, taken out
280 2011-04-11 03:29:16 <AAA_awright> Unless -noirq does some magic to your executable to remove it
281 2011-04-11 03:29:22 <AAA_awright> irq?
282 2011-04-11 03:29:42 <bikcmp> lfm: no idea.
283 2011-04-11 03:29:50 <bikcmp> lfm: i'm assuming you run lfnet or w/e?
284 2011-04-11 03:29:51 <lfm> why would it be taken out?
285 2011-04-11 03:30:07 <bikcmp> interesting, i'm trying to compile my own version of it and having issues
286 2011-04-11 03:30:20 <bikcmp> headers.h:43: fatal error: db_cxx.h: no such file/directory
287 2011-04-11 03:30:42 <lfm> bikcmp: check the readme
288 2011-04-11 03:31:10 <bikcmp> checked...
289 2011-04-11 03:31:14 <bikcmp> i'm using git.
290 2011-04-11 03:31:15 <lfm> bikcmp: I'm not the real lfm
291 2011-04-11 03:31:32 <bikcmp> what?
292 2011-04-11 03:32:16 <luke-jr> bikcmp: Gentoo?
293 2011-04-11 03:32:21 <bikcmp> nope
294 2011-04-11 03:32:22 <bikcmp> ubuntu.
295 2011-04-11 03:32:48 <luke-jr> bikcmp: make -f makefile.unix bitcoind DEBUGFLAGS="-I/usr/include/db4.8"
296 2011-04-11 03:32:57 <luke-jr> if db4.8 doesn't exist, try another ver
297 2011-04-11 03:33:18 <lfm> ya, all covered in the readme
298 2011-04-11 03:33:33 <bikcmp> no, it wasn't :)
299 2011-04-11 03:34:29 Warlord has joined
300 2011-04-11 03:34:42 <lfm> well seems pretty obvious you dont have the right libs installed as per the readme
301 2011-04-11 03:34:56 <bikcmp> the readme covered none of this.
302 2011-04-11 03:35:09 <bikcmp> either way, fixed now, thanks
303 2011-04-11 03:35:14 <bikcmp> should be anyway
304 2011-04-11 03:35:17 <lfm> your welcome
305 2011-04-11 03:38:23 <lfm> AAA_awright: oh, typo, not irq, -noirc
306 2011-04-11 03:39:24 <bikcmp> uh
307 2011-04-11 03:39:33 <bikcmp> http://pastebin.com/vJ4zHtGK
308 2011-04-11 03:39:34 <bikcmp> lol
309 2011-04-11 03:40:57 <lfm> yup, lol
310 2011-04-11 03:41:06 <bikcmp> god i have bad luck
311 2011-04-11 03:41:32 <lfm> bikcmp: ok the name of the readme file I ment is build-unix.txt
312 2011-04-11 03:41:41 <bikcmp> oh, okay.
313 2011-04-11 03:52:20 <CIA-89> bitcoin: phantomcircuit * r82d3a1d5575c bitcoin-alt/bitcoin/peer.py: fixed quick loop of ping's if only a single block is sent without anything immediately after it http://tinyurl.com/65vcu4q
314 2011-04-11 03:53:16 fimp has joined
315 2011-04-11 03:53:32 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, db4.7 was deprecated about a week ago
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321 2011-04-11 04:11:45 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: so?
322 2011-04-11 04:12:03 <phantomcircuit> so nobody should have anything but 4.8
323 2011-04-11 04:12:06 <luke-jr> lfm: makefile.unix doesn't work on Gentoo or Ubuntu without hacking
324 2011-04-11 04:12:12 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: 5.x
325 2011-04-11 04:12:38 <luke-jr> also, deprecated takes time to propagate
326 2011-04-11 04:13:02 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, gentoo only deprecates things once they're not used by any stable packages
327 2011-04-11 04:13:23 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: Debian never deprecates things except on its own schedule, also
328 2011-04-11 04:13:29 <luke-jr> same for any stable OS
329 2011-04-11 04:13:50 <phantomcircuit> gentoo deprecates stuff all the time based on when things are marked stable
330 2011-04-11 04:14:04 <gjs278> yes and I hate that
331 2011-04-11 04:14:16 <gjs278> especially when they remove old software I still use and then I have to mask it forever
332 2011-04-11 04:14:29 <phantomcircuit> deprecate on gentoo basically means that there is no package for which the latest stable depends on that package
333 2011-04-11 04:14:30 <gjs278> or go through the process of grabbing the ebuild from an archive and adding it to an overlay
334 2011-04-11 04:14:54 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, the old mysql query browser comes to mind
335 2011-04-11 04:15:02 <gjs278> skype comes in mind
336 2011-04-11 04:15:13 <gjs278> why they got rid of 2.0.0.72 is a mystery
337 2011-04-11 04:15:24 <gjs278> new version is total trash and doesn't even load up for half the people
338 2011-04-11 04:15:27 <phantomcircuit> uh
339 2011-04-11 04:15:38 <phantomcircuit> iirc there was a serious security issue
340 2011-04-11 04:15:42 <gjs278> lol
341 2011-04-11 04:15:48 <phantomcircuit> shocker
342 2011-04-11 04:16:47 <phantomcircuit> http://web.nvd.nist.gov/view/vuln/detail?vulnId=CVE-2010-3136
343 2011-04-11 04:16:48 <phantomcircuit> rofl
344 2011-04-11 04:17:20 <phantomcircuit> yeah
345 2011-04-11 04:18:33 LiquidMiner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
346 2011-04-11 04:21:13 <gjs278> well that one is definitely a dll problem one, but I'm trying to look for the security announcement about skype 2.0.0.72 on linux
347 2011-04-11 04:22:14 <gjs278> the only feature I'm missing out on is the record your desktop as a webcam feature but I have got that working with a bit of work and v4l
348 2011-04-11 04:32:01 <phantomcircuit> oh
349 2011-04-11 04:32:16 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, skype works better with qt-static btw
350 2011-04-11 04:32:22 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * rc359312e1ef3 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/otcstyle.css: OTCWebsite: improve appearance and alignment of filter notice http://tinyurl.com/43vexhd
351 2011-04-11 04:41:51 purpleposeidon has joined
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353 2011-04-11 04:48:59 <gjs278> phantomcircuit oh I know, but then it ignores my precious theme
354 2011-04-11 04:49:15 <phantomcircuit> http://pstratem.name/
355 2011-04-11 04:49:17 <gjs278> worst trade off ever really
356 2011-04-11 04:49:17 <phantomcircuit> rofl
357 2011-04-11 04:49:23 <phantomcircuit> LOOK AT MY LOVERYLY WEBSITE
358 2011-04-11 04:49:41 <gjs278> my favorite part is the lacking of scrolling
359 2011-04-11 04:49:52 <phantomcircuit> yeah im actually not sure why that is
360 2011-04-11 04:49:54 <phantomcircuit> OH WELL
361 2011-04-11 04:50:19 <phantomcircuit> oh yes i am
362 2011-04-11 04:52:36 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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367 2011-04-11 05:02:46 Dongdong has joined
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369 2011-04-11 05:04:15 <jgarzik> come on miners, mint a new block already, darn it
370 2011-04-11 05:06:23 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
371 2011-04-11 05:07:29 Dongdong has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
372 2011-04-11 05:07:45 <Kiba> jgarzik: yo. how your pastecoin going?
373 2011-04-11 05:12:05 `Jaka has quit ()
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375 2011-04-11 05:14:21 <mizerydearia> WOOT!!! Randall of XKCD maded http://xkcd.com/bitcoin/
376 2011-04-11 05:14:39 <mizerydearia> <Randall> here's how far I'll go: if anyone types this URL, they can see a black hole into which they can deposit bitcoins: http://xkcd.com/bitcoin/
377 2011-04-11 05:16:38 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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382 2011-04-11 05:20:41 <gjs278> mizerydearia what channel is that in
383 2011-04-11 05:21:07 <mizerydearia> gjs278, irc.foonetic.net #xkcd-bitcoin
384 2011-04-11 05:21:28 <Blitzboom> blog post or front page would be nice
385 2011-04-11 05:21:41 <Blitzboom> but i guess improbable
386 2011-04-11 05:22:41 <gjs278> meh, blog post wouldnt be asking too much, but he's probably waiting a bit on that one I guess
387 2011-04-11 05:22:50 CyanDynamo has joined
388 2011-04-11 05:27:27 <mizerydearia> Blitzboom, He won't mention it anymore than that
389 2011-04-11 05:28:03 <mizerydearia> <Randall> We don't have donations of any kind, actually. I mean, there are prints you can buy, and you can pay more if you want.
390 2011-04-11 05:28:31 <mizerydearia> <Randall> I only learned about bitcoins a month or so ago.
391 2011-04-11 05:29:05 <mizerydearia> even though I sent an email on 8.24.2010, but Matthew Smoot had replied to me and didn't mention anything to Randall.
392 2011-04-11 05:29:24 <jgarzik> mizerydearia: nice!
393 2011-04-11 05:29:33 <mizerydearia> <Randall> I just set up a bitcoin account, and if you want to send me money there, you're more than welcome to!
394 2011-04-11 05:29:48 <mizerydearia> <Randall> I don't solicit donations on my website, and I have avoided soliciting donations through various systems where I hadn't decided to actively promote those systems (i.e. flattr and bitcoin).
395 2011-04-11 05:30:08 <mizerydearia> <Randall> Like, a lot of people contact me and are like "can you sign up for $PROJECT and we'll get a button on your page and people can donate to you!" and I feel like the main effect of my doing that would be promoting $PROJECT.
396 2011-04-11 05:30:08 <mizerydearia> <Randall> Which isn't really something I do on solicitation, if only because the moment I did, I'd be flooded with more solicitations.
397 2011-04-11 05:30:08 <mizerydearia> <Randall> And email is hard :(
398 2011-04-11 05:30:08 <mizerydearia> <Randall> :P
399 2011-04-11 05:30:12 jnd has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
400 2011-04-11 05:30:19 * jgarzik sends 9.33 bitcoins
401 2011-04-11 05:32:00 CyanDynamo1 has joined
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411 2011-04-11 05:46:51 <Kiba> so the godfather of bitcoin had an account...at the bitcoin forum
412 2011-04-11 05:47:03 <Kiba> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4945.msg83657#msg83657
413 2011-04-11 05:52:11 bitcoiner has joined
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417 2011-04-11 05:59:07 <jgarzik> mizerydearia: people are generous: http://blockexplorer.com/address/1Lg2rvxbBPC8jp2YJoV5xL7sdyTjueMUot
418 2011-04-11 05:59:20 <mizerydearia> yep
419 2011-04-11 05:59:22 <mizerydearia> I've been watching
420 2011-04-11 05:59:39 <mizerydearia> Still discussing a bit in #xkcd-bitcoin on foonetic
421 2011-04-11 05:59:51 <mizerydearia> Randall will be buying lots of gin ^_^
422 2011-04-11 06:00:12 <mizerydearia> <Randall> I am probably legally obligated to let you know that I am not a charity and will probably be spending the money on extremely unwise things (i.e. gin)
423 2011-04-11 06:00:12 <mizerydearia> <Randall> but thank you!
424 2011-04-11 06:00:12 <mizerydearia> <Randall> Hooray! I have some bitcoins now.
425 2011-04-11 06:00:12 <mizerydearia> <ThomasV_> if you can convince some gin seller to accept bitcoins without converting them to usd, you'll be a hero
426 2011-04-11 06:00:38 <mizerydearia> <Randall> and then the bitcoin community will collapse into drunken brawls
427 2011-04-11 06:01:31 <mizerydearia> btw, what is the largest bitcoin transfer in a block viewable at blockexplorer.com ?
428 2011-04-11 06:02:39 <jgarzik> either 200k or 400k
429 2011-04-11 06:02:48 WakiMiko has joined
430 2011-04-11 06:02:59 <mizerydearia> jgarzik, Do you know the block number or address or if it is published anywhere?
431 2011-04-11 06:03:10 Kicchiri has joined
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433 2011-04-11 06:03:12 <jgarzik> mizerydearia: it's mentioned on the forums
434 2011-04-11 06:03:17 <mizerydearia> mm, I'm looking for it
435 2011-04-11 06:04:10 lfm has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
436 2011-04-11 06:05:00 <mizerydearia> Maybe http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5202.10
437 2011-04-11 06:05:55 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
438 2011-04-11 06:06:31 <jgarzik> mizerydearia: yep
439 2011-04-11 06:07:53 <mizerydearia> <Randall> so there's this exchange rate, but how much liquidity is there?
440 2011-04-11 06:08:00 <mizerydearia> I'm not familiar with liquidity
441 2011-04-11 06:08:11 <mizerydearia> Anyone wanna come to irc.foonetic.net #xkcd-bitcoin and answer? ^_^
442 2011-04-11 06:08:33 <gjs278> lol
443 2011-04-11 06:08:35 <Blitzboom> let him just see bitcoincharts or mtgox depth data
444 2011-04-11 06:08:36 <mizerydearia> I'm sure the more accurate information he learns, the better he will to understand and accept bitcoin
445 2011-04-11 06:08:44 <mizerydearia> mm, good idea
446 2011-04-11 06:08:59 <gjs278> converting your bitcoins to real money without ridiculous fees is like finding a unicorn
447 2011-04-11 06:09:13 <Blitzboom> uhm ⦠no
448 2011-04-11 06:09:14 <gjs278> best bet is just finding someone directly to buy them over paypal
449 2011-04-11 06:10:20 <gjs278> Blitzboom what website can I visit right now and get the exact exchange rate for my bitcoins and get paid as soon as the confirmation is done to a paypal account
450 2011-04-11 06:10:32 <doublec> coincard
451 2011-04-11 06:10:38 <Blitzboom> ^
452 2011-04-11 06:10:43 <thermal> just had a thought
453 2011-04-11 06:10:44 <gjs278> isn't coincard prepaid visa cards?
454 2011-04-11 06:10:50 <thermal> several thoughts actually
455 2011-04-11 06:10:52 <Blitzboom> no
456 2011-04-11 06:10:56 <gjs278> oh nevermind
457 2011-04-11 06:10:59 <gjs278> that's something different
458 2011-04-11 06:11:02 <doublec> it's prepaid gift caqrds and also has transfer to paypal instead
459 2011-04-11 06:11:02 <jgarzik> gjs278: no. payment payment or pizza gift card.
460 2011-04-11 06:11:09 <gjs278> perfect
461 2011-04-11 06:11:10 <jgarzik> gjs278: bitcoin2cc is prepaid visa
462 2011-04-11 06:11:13 <gjs278> yep
463 2011-04-11 06:11:14 <gjs278> that was the one
464 2011-04-11 06:11:18 <doublec> s/prepaid/pizza/
465 2011-04-11 06:11:28 <gjs278> hmm... pizza or paypal
466 2011-04-11 06:11:40 <jgarzik> coincard has a nifty btc->ppusd automated api
467 2011-04-11 06:11:43 <thermal> only a matter of time before the first extortion/hostage situation occurs with bitcoin
468 2011-04-11 06:12:02 <thermal> and that would be irrevocable
469 2011-04-11 06:12:11 <jgarzik> only a matter of time before <insert situation that occurs with cash> occurs with bitcoin
470 2011-04-11 06:12:12 <Blitzboom> explanation?
471 2011-04-11 06:12:15 <phantomcircuit> thermal, sounds like a bad plan
472 2011-04-11 06:12:27 <thermal> i'm not thinking of doing it
473 2011-04-11 06:12:32 <jgarzik> only a matter of time until banana porn is funded with bitcoins
474 2011-04-11 06:12:34 <gjs278> actually that would be awesome
475 2011-04-11 06:12:38 <gjs278> they really could not take the money back
476 2011-04-11 06:12:38 <phantomcircuit> the transaction would likely get blacklisted by most of the community
477 2011-04-11 06:12:43 <gjs278> no way
478 2011-04-11 06:12:45 <gjs278> I'd process it
479 2011-04-11 06:12:51 <thermal> haha
480 2011-04-11 06:12:55 <phantomcircuit> lol
481 2011-04-11 06:12:57 <thermal> how would they blacklist it?
482 2011-04-11 06:13:03 <gjs278> well
483 2011-04-11 06:13:04 <thermal> announce the transaction id on the news?
484 2011-04-11 06:13:07 <gjs278> mtgox for example
485 2011-04-11 06:13:11 <gjs278> could refuse to accept money from it
486 2011-04-11 06:13:14 <Blitzboom> only a matter of time until you can buy furry porn, LSD and sextoys with bitc-oh wait
487 2011-04-11 06:13:37 <gjs278> so basically everyone would just be on the lookout for a transfer from kidnapping100004
488 2011-04-11 06:13:48 <thermal> so what's stopping mtgox from accepting payments from mormans?
489 2011-04-11 06:14:03 <thermal> (as an example)
490 2011-04-11 06:14:04 <gjs278> what kind of mormon uses bitcoins
491 2011-04-11 06:14:21 <gjs278> they use joseph smith dollars
492 2011-04-11 06:14:29 <thermal> heh
493 2011-04-11 06:14:49 <thermal> but seriously, wouldn't that allow regulation?
494 2011-04-11 06:15:37 <thermal> and wouldn't there be people that would accept it, with lesser (differing) morals than you until eventually the kidnapper transaction is no longer in the chain?
495 2011-04-11 06:16:15 <gjs278> well
496 2011-04-11 06:16:19 <gjs278> you can trace everything back
497 2011-04-11 06:16:22 <thermal> and if that's the case, would the currency eventually diverge into different groups of people that will accept payment type A but not type B?
498 2011-04-11 06:16:32 <jgarzik> eventually, some nodes will decide to blacklist a coin. it is inevitable. the question is, will the network follow, will the network ignore, or does bitcoin fork into a "free chain" and a chain with the blacklist.
499 2011-04-11 06:16:36 <gjs278> I wouldn't care, I'd just take the bitcoins and thats it
500 2011-04-11 06:16:42 <phantomcircuit> thermal, exactly announce the transaction id on the news and you're going to have a very hard time spending that btc
501 2011-04-11 06:16:48 <jgarzik> yep
502 2011-04-11 06:17:16 <phantomcircuit> unless of course you've setup a laundering operaton
503 2011-04-11 06:17:48 * jgarzik wants a python with static type checking
504 2011-04-11 06:17:53 <jgarzik> and static compilation
505 2011-04-11 06:18:11 <thermal> the question then, is, which news networks will broadcast it and which societies/economies will blacklist it?
506 2011-04-11 06:18:34 <phantomcircuit> thermal, it doesn't even have to be 100% black listed
507 2011-04-11 06:18:34 <jgarzik> why do I have to wait for an obscure error, to find out that 'OSError' should be 'os.OSError'?
508 2011-04-11 06:18:45 lfm has joined
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510 2011-04-11 06:18:59 <phantomcircuit> thermal, you just have to trace it backwards
511 2011-04-11 06:19:19 <phantomcircuit> eventually someone will use some of the btc to purchase something linked to themselve
512 2011-04-11 06:19:28 <phantomcircuit> and you'll be able to walk the transactions backwards
513 2011-04-11 06:19:30 <jgarzik> if the "stronger", longer chain is the one that excludes the "evil" transaction, then it is effectively blacklist
514 2011-04-11 06:19:36 <thermal> what happens if there are a whole bunch of important transactions in egypt that originated from a "bad source" that filter down all the way to a consumer level and 1000's of people are affected?
515 2011-04-11 06:19:40 Stellar has joined
516 2011-04-11 06:20:05 <phantomcircuit> thermal, sounds unlikely
517 2011-04-11 06:20:39 <doublec> jgarzik: PyPy's RPython dialect would be close
518 2011-04-11 06:20:58 <thermal> why? the ransom period could purposely span a long duration for that exact reason
519 2011-04-11 06:21:19 <thermal> and then blacklisting the transaction would effectively be the same as not paying it at all
520 2011-04-11 06:21:34 <phantomcircuit> thermal, what/
521 2011-04-11 06:21:35 <phantomcircuit> ?
522 2011-04-11 06:21:39 <thermal> since it's all open, the moment it is blacklisted by anyone it would be detected
523 2011-04-11 06:21:57 <thermal> just a hypothetical
524 2011-04-11 06:22:11 <phantomcircuit> oh
525 2011-04-11 06:22:18 <phantomcircuit> yeah no i meant after you made the transfer
526 2011-04-11 06:22:26 <phantomcircuit> it would still cost you whatever the ransom was
527 2011-04-11 06:22:35 <phantomcircuit> but they would have a much harder time paying with it
528 2011-04-11 06:22:54 <phantomcircuit> kind of like if everybody checked the serial numbers on their cash against a national db of money used to pay ransoms
529 2011-04-11 06:23:38 <thermal> ok so, i'll give an example
530 2011-04-11 06:23:46 <thermal> let's say i demand that you transfer 1000 BTC to me or i break your favourite bruce springsteen CD
531 2011-04-11 06:23:52 <thermal> what do?
532 2011-04-11 06:24:08 <thermal> play along please :D
533 2011-04-11 06:24:28 <phantomcircuit> depends
534 2011-04-11 06:24:32 <genjix> phantomcircuit: where are you from?
535 2011-04-11 06:24:34 <thermal> on what?
536 2011-04-11 06:24:36 <genjix> usa?
537 2011-04-11 06:24:43 <phantomcircuit> thermal, are you offering to return my cd?
538 2011-04-11 06:24:48 <phantomcircuit> genjix, yes
539 2011-04-11 06:24:52 <genjix> kk
540 2011-04-11 06:25:15 <thermal> yes, at some point after you pay me the ransom BTCs
541 2011-04-11 06:25:32 <mizerydearia> Okay, so. http://xkcd.com/bitcoin - 1Lg2rvxbBPC8jp2YJoV5xL7sdyTjueMUot - Anyone want to help me to send bitcoins 0.01, 0.02, 0.03, ..., 0.98, 0.99, 1.00? Or maybe only up to 0.50? ^_^
542 2011-04-11 06:25:37 <phantomcircuit> thermal, well i guess i pay 1000 BTC (assuming it's worth that much to me) and then after you return the cd i tell everybody i can that your btc are bad
543 2011-04-11 06:25:58 <thermal> you jumped like 3 steps
544 2011-04-11 06:26:03 <phantomcircuit> thermal, now if in the meantime you have moved that to other accounts i wait
545 2011-04-11 06:26:03 <thermal> let's take it one step at a time
546 2011-04-11 06:26:16 <phantomcircuit> thermal, uh
547 2011-04-11 06:26:17 <phantomcircuit> sure
548 2011-04-11 06:26:21 <phantomcircuit> i send you 1000 btc
549 2011-04-11 06:26:24 <thermal> so you pay me the 1000 BTC
550 2011-04-11 06:26:53 <thermal> i spend it all and buy myself several bouncey castles
551 2011-04-11 06:26:58 <phantomcircuit> assuming the cd is worth that much to me
552 2011-04-11 06:27:07 <thermal> let's assume that
553 2011-04-11 06:27:13 <phantomcircuit> thermal, do you return the cd?
554 2011-04-11 06:27:17 <thermal> not yet
555 2011-04-11 06:27:29 <phantomcircuit> then i wait
556 2011-04-11 06:27:33 <phantomcircuit> actually
557 2011-04-11 06:27:34 <thermal> now, i track the transactions and know how diluted (right usage?) the original chain has become
558 2011-04-11 06:27:41 <phantomcircuit> you spend it ALL on bouncy castles?
559 2011-04-11 06:27:53 <thermal> they are REALLY bouncey.
560 2011-04-11 06:28:07 <thermal> yes
561 2011-04-11 06:28:18 <phantomcircuit> then i go to whomever you purchased said bouncy castles from and attempt to get information about you
562 2011-04-11 06:28:25 <phantomcircuit> delivery slips etc etc
563 2011-04-11 06:28:27 <mizerydearia> A movie making use of Bitcoin would be awesome! I wonder if anyone has connections to make that possible. e.g. in one scene, showing computer screen running bitcoin client
564 2011-04-11 06:28:28 <thermal> i also keep an eye out for any signs that the 1000 BTC has been blacklisted
565 2011-04-11 06:28:30 <phantomcircuit> security cameras
566 2011-04-11 06:28:31 <phantomcircuit> whatever
567 2011-04-11 06:28:44 <thermal> nice
568 2011-04-11 06:28:58 <Kiba> you could make a movie about bitcoin
569 2011-04-11 06:29:00 <Kiba> like
570 2011-04-11 06:29:05 <Kiba> how bitcoin got invented
571 2011-04-11 06:29:18 <thermal> heh
572 2011-04-11 06:29:29 Dark_Ghost has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
573 2011-04-11 06:29:34 <phantomcircuit> thermal, if that fails then i just sit on my hands and hope that you give me my cd back
574 2011-04-11 06:29:38 <thermal> so we're effectively making history, right now
575 2011-04-11 06:30:03 <Kiba> Once upon a time, there was this genuis crypto-girl in Silicon Valley who invented something earth-shattering called a cryptocurrency
576 2011-04-11 06:30:06 <thermal> well
577 2011-04-11 06:30:19 <thermal> just had an idea about a service that will probably exist in the future for this purpose
578 2011-04-11 06:30:38 <thermal> "VeriPay" "Be secure that your transaction has been registered with the right people"
579 2011-04-11 06:31:22 <thermal> government basically holds the hand of the bouncey castle salesmen during the transaction so that it knows about it the moment it occurs
580 2011-04-11 06:31:31 Stellar has quit (Quit: Signed)
581 2011-04-11 06:31:46 <thermal> i could always choose bouncey salesmen that didn't require VeriPay though
582 2011-04-11 06:31:51 <phantomcircuit> thermal, you couldn't do that
583 2011-04-11 06:32:05 <thermal> do what?
584 2011-04-11 06:32:13 <phantomcircuit> you'd either have to submit every single transaction for verification
585 2011-04-11 06:32:15 jnd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
586 2011-04-11 06:32:16 <phantomcircuit> or public a list
587 2011-04-11 06:32:39 <thermal> sounds pretty feasible to me. isn't that how visa works right now?
588 2011-04-11 06:32:40 <phantomcircuit> either way a single corrupt merchant could be bribed to check the blacklist on behalf of the bad guys
589 2011-04-11 06:32:56 <phantomcircuit> thermal, yeah and it doesn't work
590 2011-04-11 06:33:00 jnd has joined
591 2011-04-11 06:33:22 <thermal> it's not a blacklist, otherwise the CD gets smashed. it's simply a way to notify the government that a particular transaction is taking place so they can react faster
592 2011-04-11 06:33:37 <thermal> rather than waiting to discover it publicly which might take a whi;e
593 2011-04-11 06:33:38 <thermal> while
594 2011-04-11 06:34:23 <thermal> just something i foresee occuring in the future to protect the people from "terrorism"
595 2011-04-11 06:34:38 <thermal> i mean
596 2011-04-11 06:34:46 <thermal> "to protect the people from terrorism"
597 2011-04-11 06:34:48 <phantomcircuit> thermal, what?
598 2011-04-11 06:34:50 <phantomcircuit> uh
599 2011-04-11 06:35:00 <phantomcircuit> the transaction would be immediately evident to everybody
600 2011-04-11 06:35:10 <phantomcircuit> that's kind of how bitcoin works
601 2011-04-11 06:35:48 <thermal> if this becomes a global system, do you think that every single peer will become instantaneously aware of every transaction that occurs the very moment it occurs?
602 2011-04-11 06:36:07 <thermal> or would it gradually propogate?
603 2011-04-11 06:36:19 <phantomcircuit> within seconds
604 2011-04-11 06:36:27 <phantomcircuit> at the worst
605 2011-04-11 06:36:45 <thermal> ok well then there's no need for a government to implement a system like that
606 2011-04-11 06:37:16 <gjs278> ,,bc,block
607 2011-04-11 06:37:17 <gribble> Error: "bc,block" is not a valid command.
608 2011-04-11 06:37:21 <gjs278> ,,bc,blocks
609 2011-04-11 06:37:22 <gribble> 117770
610 2011-04-11 06:37:43 <thermal> ok so, instead of a bouncey castle i decide to get a rocket car
611 2011-04-11 06:38:09 <phantomcircuit> thermal, the real problem comes from anonymous ways to purchase anonymous perfectly liquid commodities, ie gold
612 2011-04-11 06:38:11 <thermal> once i make the transaction i speed off in my rocket car and eventually find safety
613 2011-04-11 06:38:13 <phantomcircuit> walk into a store
614 2011-04-11 06:38:17 <phantomcircuit> pay them some btc
615 2011-04-11 06:38:20 <phantomcircuit> walk out with gold
616 2011-04-11 06:38:24 <phantomcircuit> good luck tracing that
617 2011-04-11 06:38:29 <thermal> or a rocket car
618 2011-04-11 06:38:53 <thermal> MADE out of gold.
619 2011-04-11 06:39:00 Stellar has joined
620 2011-04-11 06:39:08 <thermal> a golden rocket car
621 2011-04-11 06:39:18 <phantomcircuit> lol
622 2011-04-11 06:40:08 <thermal> ok so now that i have my golden rocket car in a safe place and have waited for the BTC chain to diverge 1000 times
623 2011-04-11 06:40:45 <thermal> i email you half of track #3 as an mp3
624 2011-04-11 06:41:00 danbri has joined
625 2011-04-11 06:41:18 <thermal> but then eventually return the CD safely
626 2011-04-11 06:41:22 <thermal> what do?
627 2011-04-11 06:42:28 <phantomcircuit> im screwed
628 2011-04-11 06:42:46 <thermal> the other idea i had (might have already been done though)
629 2011-04-11 06:42:46 <phantomcircuit> just like id be screwed if you demanded a wire transfer to a country where you bribed the cops
630 2011-04-11 06:43:16 <thermal> is to demand a wire transfer to a country where i bribed the cops
631 2011-04-11 06:43:31 <thermal> no
632 2011-04-11 06:44:08 <thermal> is there a backend system for coordinating the selling and buying of BTCs to connect up currency exchange websites?
633 2011-04-11 06:44:36 <thermal> and if not, would there be any value to the project if i created one?
634 2011-04-11 06:48:00 jnd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
635 2011-04-11 06:48:42 <thermal> also i don't think ~20 million BTCs is a high enough natural number for global usage
636 2011-04-11 06:49:04 <genjix> where can i see the definition for a transaction?
637 2011-04-11 06:49:21 <thermal> most transaction amounts will end up being 0.0XXX
638 2011-04-11 06:51:41 <thermal> and perhaps to regulate the lawful usage of the currency, each country could have their own key set that had the authority to revoke/blacklist transaction chains
639 2011-04-11 06:51:56 <thermal> or something.
640 2011-04-11 06:52:45 <phantomcircuit> thermal, each bitcoin is actually 50 million bitcoins (or something like that)
641 2011-04-11 06:53:06 <phantomcircuit> thermal, they can be subdivided into pieces more than small enough to be a global currency
642 2011-04-11 06:53:21 <thermal> you mean using a decimal place?
643 2011-04-11 06:53:51 <AAA_awright> It's a uint64
644 2011-04-11 06:54:16 <thermal> the range isn't the issue i have
645 2011-04-11 06:54:30 <thermal> it's the position of the decimal place
646 2011-04-11 06:54:39 <AAA_awright> It's arbritary, why does it matter
647 2011-04-11 06:54:42 <phantomcircuit> 50 BTC == 5000000000
648 2011-04-11 06:54:48 <AAA_awright> The number on the money is meaningless
649 2011-04-11 06:54:56 <AAA_awright> It's relative, actually
650 2011-04-11 06:55:01 <thermal> would you prefer that i transfer 100.50 or 10050.00?
651 2011-04-11 06:55:03 <phantomcircuit> so
652 2011-04-11 06:55:05 <phantomcircuit> 50 million
653 2011-04-11 06:55:07 <thermal> to your account?
654 2011-04-11 06:55:26 <thermal> the issue i have is readability
655 2011-04-11 06:55:29 <phantomcircuit> thermal, id prefer 10050000000
656 2011-04-11 06:55:46 <gjs278> lol I'd rather do 100.50
657 2011-04-11 06:55:47 purpleposeidon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
658 2011-04-11 06:56:05 <gjs278> remembering that many zeroes is dumb
659 2011-04-11 06:56:10 <thermal> there can never be that many bitcoins phantom
660 2011-04-11 06:56:41 <gjs278> he's saying 50 coins could equal 50 million coins I think
661 2011-04-11 06:57:34 <thermal> the decimal place determines the value of the amount
662 2011-04-11 06:58:04 <thermal> or so i thought anyway
663 2011-04-11 06:58:12 <thermal> but what do i know
664 2011-04-11 06:58:13 <thermal> bbl
665 2011-04-11 06:59:54 <phantomcircuit> thermal, it doesn't much matter
666 2011-04-11 07:00:05 <phantomcircuit> people are adaptable with things they expect to change
667 2011-04-11 07:03:16 taco_the_paco has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
668 2011-04-11 07:04:12 <genjix> where can i see the definition for a transaction?
669 2011-04-11 07:06:31 <genjix> i mean how is it stored in a block? (CTransaction)
670 2011-04-11 07:07:53 <mahadri> genjix: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#tx
671 2011-04-11 07:09:24 <AAA_awright> gjs278: That's why we have scientific notation
672 2011-04-11 07:09:38 <AAA_awright> 1.005e10
673 2011-04-11 07:09:42 <gjs278> fuck that
674 2011-04-11 07:09:50 <gjs278> I'm not remembering any e's
675 2011-04-11 07:09:52 <AAA_awright> Well what will it be
676 2011-04-11 07:09:56 <gjs278> 100.50
677 2011-04-11 07:10:03 <AAA_awright> In what unit
678 2011-04-11 07:10:09 <gjs278> same as we have now
679 2011-04-11 07:10:17 <genjix> thanks mahadri
680 2011-04-11 07:10:22 <AAA_awright> gjs278: How are you expected to remember 0.00000001 then
681 2011-04-11 07:10:47 <gjs278> whatever is close enough to $1 will be what everyone considers a coin
682 2011-04-11 07:11:10 <AAA_awright> Except that's changed by two orders of magnitude in the last year
683 2011-04-11 07:11:56 <gjs278> I don't think it will get drastic enough that it needs to change for awhile
684 2011-04-11 07:12:32 <thermal> one important thing that needs to exist for this to be successful
685 2011-04-11 07:13:03 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
686 2011-04-11 07:14:43 <thermal> is for the existance of a reliable and easily usable way to covert BTC into other monetary instruments
687 2011-04-11 07:14:47 <thermal> mainly, cash
688 2011-04-11 07:14:53 MUILTFN has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
689 2011-04-11 07:15:10 <thermal> which would require a reserve of some kind
690 2011-04-11 07:15:40 <thermal> so maybe i should put a few million in and set something like that up?
691 2011-04-11 07:16:00 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
692 2011-04-11 07:17:09 <gjs278> what do you guys think will happen when the block splits into 25 coins each find
693 2011-04-11 07:25:24 <mahadri> gjs278: if 25 BTCs trade for less than the cost to mine them, mining will slow until it becomes cost-effective again.
694 2011-04-11 07:27:13 Stellar has joined
695 2011-04-11 07:29:13 <da2ce7> genjix, are you insane... what is up with the flood.
696 2011-04-11 07:29:20 <da2ce7> (the private chat is going insane)
697 2011-04-11 07:34:26 <genjix> da2ce7: it was a mispaste
698 2011-04-11 07:34:31 <genjix> i meant to paste 2 lines
699 2011-04-11 07:34:41 Mixxit has joined
700 2011-04-11 07:34:49 <da2ce7> :) ok, no hard feelings.
701 2011-04-11 07:35:14 <genjix> sry about that
702 2011-04-11 07:36:15 ForceDestroyer has joined
703 2011-04-11 07:36:38 <Mixxit> is btc on apt yet
704 2011-04-11 07:37:44 <da2ce7> yes, debian unstalbe
705 2011-04-11 07:39:15 <Mixxit> tyvm
706 2011-04-11 07:39:31 Kicchiri has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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715 2011-04-11 07:54:55 TD has joined
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717 2011-04-11 07:58:23 Stellar has joined
718 2011-04-11 08:01:16 <Keefe> thermal: bitcoin2cash.com already offers cash withdrawal, but the trade volume there is still low
719 2011-04-11 08:01:42 <Keefe> just need to get more people to buy there
720 2011-04-11 08:02:00 <gjs278> lol $5 for a check
721 2011-04-11 08:02:10 <gjs278> oh
722 2011-04-11 08:02:12 <Keefe> cash, not check
723 2011-04-11 08:02:13 <gjs278> it's actual cash
724 2011-04-11 08:02:15 <gjs278> eh
725 2011-04-11 08:02:26 <Keefe> but ya $5 is a little high for a small amount
726 2011-04-11 08:02:35 <Keefe> probably fair enough for like $1000
727 2011-04-11 08:02:42 <gjs278> yeah
728 2011-04-11 08:02:51 <gjs278> paypal is $1.50 to send you a check in the mail
729 2011-04-11 08:03:12 <gjs278> I've never heard of any place actually sending direct cash though
730 2011-04-11 08:04:03 rli has joined
731 2011-04-11 08:07:06 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
732 2011-04-11 08:13:13 <mizerydearia> Can we reach at least 100 bitcoins of support for xkcd? http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5686
733 2011-04-11 08:13:25 danbri has joined
734 2011-04-11 08:13:29 <mizerydearia> How about 200?
735 2011-04-11 08:18:31 OneFixt_ has joined
736 2011-04-11 08:18:45 OneFixt_ has quit (Client Quit)
737 2011-04-11 08:27:39 jnd has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
738 2011-04-11 08:28:13 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
739 2011-04-11 08:28:38 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
740 2011-04-11 08:30:14 <AAA_awright> mizerydearia: Blackhole doesn't ring too well does it
741 2011-04-11 08:30:21 <mizerydearia> hmm
742 2011-04-11 08:30:23 <AAA_awright> And in any event aren't they socalists?
743 2011-04-11 08:30:32 <mizerydearia> It was Randall's words.
744 2011-04-11 08:30:40 <AAA_awright> I don't think they've retracted their support for Obama yet
745 2011-04-11 08:30:45 <mizerydearia> they?
746 2011-04-11 08:30:50 <mizerydearia> Randall?
747 2011-04-11 08:31:22 <BurtyB> [Tycho] are there any probems with payments from your pool? it has been over 24hr since I last had a payment but when I click "Instant payout" i'm told "Please_wait_for_autopayment"?
748 2011-04-11 08:31:56 <AAA_awright> What other they am I talking about
749 2011-04-11 08:32:38 <mizerydearia> AAA_awright, I am not sure. I am not familiar with politics so much.
750 2011-04-11 08:33:45 <topi`> morning
751 2011-04-11 08:34:33 <justmoon> mizerydearia: sent 15
752 2011-04-11 08:34:51 <mizerydearia> ^_^
753 2011-04-11 08:35:03 <mizerydearia> When he awakens he shall be surprised.
754 2011-04-11 08:35:11 Spenvo has joined
755 2011-04-11 08:35:11 <justmoon> 1. Donate to xkcd
756 2011-04-11 08:35:13 <justmoon> 2. ...
757 2011-04-11 08:35:14 <justmoon> 3. Profit
758 2011-04-11 08:35:20 <mizerydearia> hehe
759 2011-04-11 08:35:40 <justmoon> I've been up 30-some hours, makes perfect sense to me
760 2011-04-11 08:35:47 <mizerydearia> for sure
761 2011-04-11 08:35:52 <mizerydearia> also
762 2011-04-11 08:36:01 <mizerydearia> 1. Visit witcoin
763 2011-04-11 08:36:03 <mizerydearia> 2. ...
764 2011-04-11 08:36:05 <mizerydearia> 3. Profit
765 2011-04-11 08:36:27 <justmoon> witcoin's design gives me a headache
766 2011-04-11 08:36:31 <mizerydearia> oh?
767 2011-04-11 08:36:32 <mizerydearia> how so?
768 2011-04-11 08:36:53 <mizerydearia> colors?
769 2011-04-11 08:37:01 <mizerydearia> if so, ...
770 2011-04-11 08:37:04 * mizerydearia blames tcatm
771 2011-04-11 08:37:07 <justmoon> hard to put in words, lots of little things
772 2011-04-11 08:37:19 <mizerydearia> mm, may I pay you to put them into words?
773 2011-04-11 08:37:43 <justmoon> lol, I'm not a professional designer, I can recommend one though if you like
774 2011-04-11 08:38:07 <justmoon> a cheap one who I can convince to accept bitcoins :)
775 2011-04-11 08:38:07 <mizerydearia> mm, you don't need to design the words, just explain in words how the site gives you a headache.
776 2011-04-11 08:38:29 <mizerydearia> Does it do it voluntarily?
777 2011-04-11 08:38:47 <mizerydearia> If so, I didn't program the site in such way and it may be a bug
778 2011-04-11 08:39:10 <justmoon> I think a big part is the tiny font sizes in many places
779 2011-04-11 08:39:16 <mizerydearia> mm
780 2011-04-11 08:39:31 <mizerydearia> that's interesting, because to me the font isn't tiny.
781 2011-04-11 08:39:32 <justmoon> also the layout doesn't have much of a "macro" structure to it
782 2011-04-11 08:39:41 <justmoon> like things lining up when you look at it from afar
783 2011-04-11 08:39:43 <mizerydearia> more mm
784 2011-04-11 08:40:27 <mizerydearia> I shall prepare my monitor to look through a window and go outside and using a binoculars or telescope examine the layout a bit further.
785 2011-04-11 08:40:31 <mizerydearia> or more advancedly
786 2011-04-11 08:40:42 <Spenvo> some important links are hidden as well
787 2011-04-11 08:40:51 <mizerydearia> oh? which ones?
788 2011-04-11 08:41:03 <justmoon> oh oh and just call the login "login" please
789 2011-04-11 08:41:11 <mizerydearia> =/
790 2011-04-11 08:41:13 <justmoon> "get wit it" is cute, but confusing
791 2011-04-11 08:41:18 <mizerydearia> aww
792 2011-04-11 08:41:26 <justmoon> you can write "get wit it" on the login page if you want
793 2011-04-11 08:41:41 <topi`> http://artsyspot.com/img/fun/weird-and-hilarious-stuff/weird-and-hilarious-stuff08.jpg
794 2011-04-11 08:41:44 <justmoon> but for menu items clarity trumps cleverness
795 2011-04-11 08:41:47 <Spenvo> get wit it is good (but noobies need to understand)
796 2011-04-11 08:42:07 <topi`> motivation: i'm still trying to compile jgarzik's miner on OSX :)
797 2011-04-11 08:42:17 <Spenvo> notably (this got me) the charity link that leads to the page to add charities for a user is different from the big pot of money at the top
798 2011-04-11 08:43:03 <Spenvo> the real link is a few clicks away, and the one that gets most of the clicks doesn't let the user customize his charities
799 2011-04-11 08:43:42 jnd has joined
800 2011-04-11 08:44:08 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
801 2011-04-11 08:44:32 <Spenvo> also, seeing every sub-category on the right column makes my eyes gloss over everything
802 2011-04-11 08:45:27 <Spenvo> if you condensed each section and made them expandable, i think it would be something I'd actually look at
803 2011-04-11 08:46:17 <Spenvo> -- end rant -- :)
804 2011-04-11 08:46:48 <mizerydearia> mm, thanks for the feedbac
805 2011-04-11 08:46:59 <mizerydearia> You're welcome to rant anytime.
806 2011-04-11 08:47:00 <justmoon> +1 on the monster category list on the right
807 2011-04-11 08:47:21 <Spenvo> it means i care :)
808 2011-04-11 08:47:24 <mizerydearia> I've noted each of them and will work on them at some point.
809 2011-04-11 08:47:55 <mizerydearia> I put them at top of list instead of bottom (I can cheat)
810 2011-04-11 08:48:02 wolfspraul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
811 2011-04-11 08:48:30 * Spenvo watches blog comments embed drop 5 places
812 2011-04-11 08:48:32 wolfspraul has joined
813 2011-04-11 08:48:36 <Spenvo> hehe
814 2011-04-11 08:48:50 asdfcdd has joined
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816 2011-04-11 08:53:44 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
817 2011-04-11 08:56:22 tabsa has joined
818 2011-04-11 09:05:27 <topi`> damn, i've forgotten my bitcoin wiki passwd even though I just registered 2 days ago
819 2011-04-11 09:05:48 <topi`> my mind is a swiss cheese nowadays
820 2011-04-11 09:06:07 <topi`> I can't choose a new one, because "change password" wants to have the OLD passwd :)
821 2011-04-11 09:06:20 tabsa has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
822 2011-04-11 09:08:28 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
823 2011-04-11 09:08:29 <gribble> 117784
824 2011-04-11 09:12:13 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
825 2011-04-11 09:14:44 <topi`> damn genjix, he must still be asleep
826 2011-04-11 09:18:50 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
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834 2011-04-11 09:47:04 <krytzz> topi`: get a keychain
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850 2011-04-11 10:35:00 <maxlo> hi
851 2011-04-11 10:35:11 <maxlo> any devs here? i've got a suggestion :)
852 2011-04-11 10:35:32 <maxlo> (and the --trivial-- implementation)
853 2011-04-11 10:36:35 <sipa> maxlo: maybe people who don't call themselves "dev" are interested as well :)
854 2011-04-11 10:37:26 <maxlo> ok, just wanted to make sure that dev read this... or maybe i should send an email :)
855 2011-04-11 10:37:36 <maxlo> so, here is the thing: it is about the systray
856 2011-04-11 10:37:42 <maxlo> and the click behavior
857 2011-04-11 10:37:44 <maxlo> under linux
858 2011-04-11 10:38:26 <maxlo> i have check a bunch of programs (skype, choqok, clementine, pidgin, kopete) and the click action hides/shows the main window
859 2011-04-11 10:38:34 <sipa> best way to make sure people see it, is make a forum post
860 2011-04-11 10:38:36 <maxlo> depending on the current state
861 2011-04-11 10:38:43 <sipa> of a github issue
862 2011-04-11 10:38:45 <sipa> *or
863 2011-04-11 10:39:08 <maxlo> sipa: ok. anyways, just write this, to see what people think, as you suggested
864 2011-04-11 10:39:26 <maxlo> under bitcoin, the click always shows the main window
865 2011-04-11 10:39:53 <maxlo> i think that the behavior should match the "standard", the behavior that a lot of other programs have
866 2011-04-11 10:40:34 <maxlo> this is easily achived by modifying the function CMyTaskBarIcon::OnLeftButtonDClick() in ui.cpp
867 2011-04-11 10:41:03 MUILTFN has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
868 2011-04-11 10:41:07 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
869 2011-04-11 10:41:07 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
870 2011-04-11 10:41:17 <maxlo> i put "pframeMain->Show(!pframeMain->IsShown());", but any more complex logic could be used (such as using Restore() if it is already Shown(), but hidden)
871 2011-04-11 10:41:19 <maxlo> just an idea
872 2011-04-11 10:41:23 RazielZ has joined
873 2011-04-11 10:41:45 <maxlo> i would like to see bitcoin having the same behavior as all the other programs that i use and have systray icon :)
874 2011-04-11 10:42:10 <maxlo> sipa: btw, bitcoin is under github? I just checked out a svn copy
875 2011-04-11 10:42:50 <sipa> yes, developement moved to github now, svn is still updated with the actual releases, i think
876 2011-04-11 10:43:15 x6763 has joined
877 2011-04-11 10:43:24 <gjs278> maxlo if you try to suggest anything for this project, people will just tell you to do it yourself, make a pull request on github, and it may or may not get looked at in a week
878 2011-04-11 10:43:40 <gjs278> so going the github route is probably the best route
879 2011-04-11 10:44:01 <sipa> especially since you apparently see how to fix it, you're the best one to implement it :)
880 2011-04-11 10:44:39 <maxlo> i would be glad to :)
881 2011-04-11 10:45:10 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
882 2011-04-11 10:46:46 <maxlo> so, before actually make the change, it should be agreed. The way to see if this is a good change is to create a new issue, correct?
883 2011-04-11 10:47:07 <gjs278> the system tray icon is so pointless on linux bitcoin
884 2011-04-11 10:47:13 <gjs278> it might as well not even be there in its current state
885 2011-04-11 10:47:35 <gjs278> whenever I hit x for the program, the system tray icon disappears and the program closes for real
886 2011-04-11 10:47:44 <gjs278> and when I rightclick the system tray, there are no options
887 2011-04-11 10:47:47 <gjs278> wtf is the point
888 2011-04-11 10:48:01 <sipa> i didn't know it has a systray icon - my window manager doesn't have that
889 2011-04-11 10:48:05 <gjs278> lol
890 2011-04-11 10:48:10 <maxlo> well, it is not pointless. It is bad implemented :)
891 2011-04-11 10:48:21 <gjs278> the icon doesnt even display for me, it just puts a blank square there
892 2011-04-11 10:48:22 <maxlo> we could easily fix the "x" proble
893 2011-04-11 10:48:30 <maxlo> yep, I saw that
894 2011-04-11 10:48:36 <maxlo> also changed this in the source code
895 2011-04-11 10:48:48 <gjs278> what did you change to make the icon appear
896 2011-04-11 10:48:51 <maxlo> it has a big comment now, something like "this is broken in linux"
897 2011-04-11 10:48:53 <maxlo> let me check
898 2011-04-11 10:49:03 <gjs278> the rc/ folder had freaking bmps in it...
899 2011-04-11 10:49:14 <sipa> maxlo: if you're unsure about what the best behaviour is, make a forum post where you do the suggestion and say you're willing to implement it yourself
900 2011-04-11 10:49:22 <sipa> i'm sure you'll get some positive remarks
901 2011-04-11 10:49:38 <maxlo> search for a line "ptaskbaricon->Show(fMinimizeToTray || fClosedToTray);", change this to "ptaskbaricon->Show(true);"
902 2011-04-11 10:49:52 <maxlo> of course, this is a QUICK HACK, just to see if this works
903 2011-04-11 10:50:14 <maxlo> i should check how fMinimizeToTray and hClosedToTray are being used :_
904 2011-04-11 10:50:15 <maxlo> :)
905 2011-04-11 10:51:02 <maxlo> if you are compiling from source, try what i say, and you will get icon, menu when right clicking also :)
906 2011-04-11 10:51:10 <gjs278> alright
907 2011-04-11 10:51:13 <gjs278> so just change that one line?
908 2011-04-11 10:51:30 <maxlo> when you say "a forum post", you mean in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues ?
909 2011-04-11 10:51:40 <gjs278> there's an actual bitcoin forum
910 2011-04-11 10:51:47 <sipa> no, http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?board=6.0
911 2011-04-11 10:52:14 <sipa> i don't like the fact that both exist - there are people who only read one of them
912 2011-04-11 10:52:15 <maxlo> gjs278: yes, that line is enough. The thing is that fMinimizeToTray == fClosedToTray == false.
913 2011-04-11 10:52:17 <sipa> but the forums are used more
914 2011-04-11 10:52:23 <maxlo> ok
915 2011-04-11 10:52:32 <gjs278> that line shows up in ui.cpp 3 times
916 2011-04-11 10:52:36 <gjs278> which one do I go for
917 2011-04-11 10:52:46 <maxlo> let me check
918 2011-04-11 10:53:59 <maxlo> i changed 2, but i guess that the on in CreateMainWindow() should be enough
919 2011-04-11 10:54:08 <gjs278> ok
920 2011-04-11 10:54:29 <maxlo> i saw another in CMainFrame::OnIconize()
921 2011-04-11 10:54:51 <maxlo> and the on in COptionsDialog::OnButtonApply(). (I changed the first 2)
922 2011-04-11 10:55:17 <maxlo> but, hey, remember: i am just playin with this :). For the real thing, i will have to poke a little more
923 2011-04-11 10:55:22 <maxlo> leet me know if it woked for you
924 2011-04-11 10:55:23 <UukGoblin> I've asked that several times already - but is there a way (in the protocol) to add arbitrary data to a transaction?
925 2011-04-11 10:55:34 <sipa> UukGoblin: yes and o
926 2011-04-11 10:55:35 <sipa> no
927 2011-04-11 10:55:58 <sipa> you can use arbitrary scripts in a transaction
928 2011-04-11 10:56:00 <UukGoblin> sipa, hrm. that's why I didn't remember the answer ;-]
929 2011-04-11 10:56:08 <sipa> but almost all miners will ignore it
930 2011-04-11 10:56:25 <UukGoblin> ignore the transaction?
931 2011-04-11 10:56:25 <gjs278> lol segfaulted
932 2011-04-11 10:56:34 <UukGoblin> even if there's a fee in it for them?
933 2011-04-11 10:56:36 <sipa> UukGoblin: yes, not put it in a block
934 2011-04-11 10:56:39 <sipa> yes
935 2011-04-11 10:56:48 <UukGoblin> w..eird
936 2011-04-11 10:56:58 <sipa> they're called non-standard transactions
937 2011-04-11 10:57:15 <sipa> and the default client doesn't accept them, unless they are already in a block
938 2011-04-11 10:57:29 <UukGoblin> right
939 2011-04-11 10:57:33 <maxlo> gjs278: this is my svn diff: http://pastebin.com/w0L50s3B
940 2011-04-11 10:58:01 <maxlo> note that there are changes in the makefile, and also a change to compile using boost 1.46
941 2011-04-11 10:58:22 Maxiboy has joined
942 2011-04-11 10:58:26 <gjs278> yeah
943 2011-04-11 10:58:42 <Maxiboy> How do I allow remote connections to bitcoind for testing ?
944 2011-04-11 10:58:48 <Maxiboy> likte rpcallow=* ?
945 2011-04-11 10:59:07 <maxlo> btw, if i have a bitcoind running, can i connect to it using a client? could not find it
946 2011-04-11 10:59:40 <gjs278> they use the same datadir
947 2011-04-11 10:59:42 <gjs278> so no
948 2011-04-11 10:59:49 <UukGoblin> sipa, well I assume transactions with outputs/inputs less than 0.01 are also rejected?
949 2011-04-11 10:59:57 <maxlo> that wuld be a nice-to-have :)
950 2011-04-11 11:00:21 <maxlo> i mean, that the client was *just* a gui
951 2011-04-11 11:00:27 <UukGoblin> cause one way I see this is to use steganography-like stuff in the addresses... i.e. send very low amounts to non-existing outputs which will encode some information...
952 2011-04-11 11:00:32 <maxlo> but maybe this includes some refactoring.
953 2011-04-11 11:01:10 <sipa> UukGoblin: no
954 2011-04-11 11:01:16 <sipa> UukGoblin: but only when a fee is present
955 2011-04-11 11:01:34 <Maxiboy> Anybody knows if bitcoind takes rpcallow=* (for testing) ?
956 2011-04-11 11:01:37 <sipa> (outputs, by the way, there is no required fee for using small inputs - in fact, that should be encourages)
957 2011-04-11 11:03:18 <UukGoblin> sipa, so in short, there is a way available to be implemented in future clients
958 2011-04-11 11:03:33 <maxlo> bbl
959 2011-04-11 11:03:43 <UukGoblin> and I could mod my own clients and as long as I generate blocks I will be able to sneak these transactions into the chain
960 2011-04-11 11:04:04 <ersi> Maxiboy: Have you tried setting it like that?
961 2011-04-11 11:04:56 <Maxiboy> Yes but I still get connection refused
962 2011-04-11 11:05:11 <ersi> then it doesn't take that :)
963 2011-04-11 11:07:29 maximus has joined
964 2011-04-11 11:07:34 <[Tycho]> Hello.
965 2011-04-11 11:07:35 maximus is now known as Guest49254
966 2011-04-11 11:08:06 <[Tycho]> Which miner uses this useragent ? "bitcoin-miner/0.6 CPU/Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU"
967 2011-04-11 11:08:18 Guest49254 has quit (Client Quit)
968 2011-04-11 11:09:58 Guest27240 has joined
969 2011-04-11 11:11:03 <Maxiboy> How should I set rpcallow to allow my local network like rpcallow=192.168.*.*?
970 2011-04-11 11:15:46 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
971 2011-04-11 11:18:34 <Guest27240> How do I get money on testnet?
972 2011-04-11 11:18:50 <Guest27240> Tried https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/TEST/
973 2011-04-11 11:18:57 <Guest27240> But they will never arrive?
974 2011-04-11 11:19:08 Guest27240 is now known as scoots
975 2011-04-11 11:19:31 <scoots> Can I generate coins on testnet?
976 2011-04-11 11:19:41 <sipa> you can
977 2011-04-11 11:29:10 Stellar has joined
978 2011-04-11 11:32:34 <ersi> [Tycho]: "Ufasoft's SSE2 miner"
979 2011-04-11 11:33:08 <ersi> A CPU-miner. It's binary is called bitcoin-miner.exe
980 2011-04-11 11:33:17 <scoots> How long can it take for transactions on det testnet to be confirmed?
981 2011-04-11 11:34:32 Maxiboy has quit (Quit: Page closed)
982 2011-04-11 11:34:53 tabsa has joined
983 2011-04-11 11:36:33 <sipa> scoots: if no one is mining there, forever :)
984 2011-04-11 11:37:56 <scoots> Hehe that's along time (:
985 2011-04-11 11:39:50 scoots has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
986 2011-04-11 11:40:07 scoots has joined
987 2011-04-11 11:40:23 <scoots> But if I mine myself can I then confirm my own transaction?
988 2011-04-11 11:40:37 <scoots> Would like to have some start money to test with only
989 2011-04-11 11:42:51 <ersi> Why don't you do it on the regular network and use the BitCoin Faucet?
990 2011-04-11 11:43:12 <ersi> But yes, you can confirm your own transaction if you crunch for the testnet
991 2011-04-11 11:43:15 danbri has joined
992 2011-04-11 11:44:14 jroot has joined
993 2011-04-11 11:51:05 <scoots> ersi I'm testing and developing so a little more than 0.05 btc is required
994 2011-04-11 11:54:18 dbitcoin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
995 2011-04-11 11:55:01 <ersi> scoots: Ah, I see. Sorry :)
996 2011-04-11 11:55:07 <Keefe> scoots: how much do you need?
997 2011-04-11 11:55:53 <scoots> Just some for passing around between accounts maybe like 50-100
998 2011-04-11 11:56:22 <Keefe> ok, np. give me an address and i'll send you some. i accumulated a ton the other day when testing something
999 2011-04-11 11:59:16 <scoots> n1hvG5XrYp1WTzK9N8dSjUvtM4QEExvw3w
1000 2011-04-11 11:59:32 <scoots> Thank you very much!
1001 2011-04-11 11:59:59 <scoots> How did you accumulate that, my mining?
1002 2011-04-11 12:00:28 <Keefe> 1.9 ghash/s at diff 8 or whatever it is... wheee
1003 2011-04-11 12:00:54 <scoots> Nice! (:
1004 2011-04-11 12:01:24 <scoots> What rig do you have to that rate?
1005 2011-04-11 12:02:12 <Keefe> that was 3 of my 8 radeon 5970's
1006 2011-04-11 12:03:08 rli has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1007 2011-04-11 12:03:11 <scoots> Using both gpus on one card?
1008 2011-04-11 12:03:31 <sipa> must be
1009 2011-04-11 12:09:04 dbitcoin has joined
1010 2011-04-11 12:09:31 <Keefe> scoots: just sent 200
1011 2011-04-11 12:09:40 <Keefe> i have 4000 left
1012 2011-04-11 12:10:01 <Keefe> so, anyone else need some? they're mostly worthless to me
1013 2011-04-11 12:10:28 <scoots> Thanks! Very much appreciated!
1014 2011-04-11 12:10:36 <Keefe> now we just need some testnet mining to confirm that txn
1015 2011-04-11 12:11:54 <topi`> keefe: do you mine to the 'real' network with your 8 ati's? at difficulty 82000 it is already slowing down.
1016 2011-04-11 12:12:05 <Keefe> i do
1017 2011-04-11 12:12:20 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 103000 17
1018 2011-04-11 12:12:20 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 103000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 17, is 11 minutes and 48 seconds
1019 2011-04-11 12:12:30 <topi`> i'm just mining with my 500mhz ARM ;) but that consumes only 0.3 watts or so
1020 2011-04-11 12:12:30 <Keefe> ;;bc,gend 1000 8.55
1021 2011-04-11 12:12:30 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 8.55, is 117.640746267 BTC per day and 4.90169776113 BTC per hour.
1022 2011-04-11 12:12:35 <sipa> i can get you a testnet block in +- 11 minutes :)
1023 2011-04-11 12:13:00 <Keefe> why 17?
1024 2011-04-11 12:13:08 <sipa> testnet difficulty
1025 2011-04-11 12:13:25 <Keefe> blockexplorer says testnet diff is 8.548 * mainnet diff1
1026 2011-04-11 12:13:44 <sipa> oh, right, it's divided by 2
1027 2011-04-11 12:15:55 <Keefe> i guess 4k testnet btc could be worth about 0.40 mainnet btc, if you equate the cost to produce
1028 2011-04-11 12:16:24 <sipa> it doesn't work that way :)
1029 2011-04-11 12:16:59 <Keefe> only in the sense that mining 4k tbtc has an opportunity cost of 0.40 btc
1030 2011-04-11 12:18:09 <Keefe> but since testnet gets reset occasionally, i wouldn't expect anyone to actually buy any tbtc
1031 2011-04-11 12:18:43 funkenstein has joined
1032 2011-04-11 12:19:14 <Keefe> scoots: someone just published a new testnet block, so the txn is now confirmed
1033 2011-04-11 12:21:08 jeremias_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1034 2011-04-11 12:22:09 <funkenstein> how you think bitcoin would withstand a buyout attack
1035 2011-04-11 12:22:13 jeremias has joined
1036 2011-04-11 12:22:21 <krytzz> what is that
1037 2011-04-11 12:23:00 <xelister> lol buyout attack
1038 2011-04-11 12:23:06 <funkenstein> ie just try to buy as many as you can, corner the market
1039 2011-04-11 12:23:13 <xelister> OH NOES they bought all my money and now Im rich.... ;-(
1040 2011-04-11 12:23:19 <xelister> *all my btc
1041 2011-04-11 12:23:23 <sacarlson> Keefe: what code is needed to change in code or config to work with tbtc or testnet?
1042 2011-04-11 12:23:50 <sipa> use -testnet on command line
1043 2011-04-11 12:24:10 <sipa> or testnet=1 in config file
1044 2011-04-11 12:24:26 <funkenstein> yeah right xel so everybody sells and then bitcoin is effectively shut down like the early electric cars?
1045 2011-04-11 12:24:28 <sacarlson> sipa: so is there testnet=666 will that be different?
1046 2011-04-11 12:24:43 <sipa> no
1047 2011-04-11 12:24:44 <krytzz> funkenstein: if everybody sells bitcoin is dead
1048 2011-04-11 12:24:57 <sipa> there is realnet and testnet, that's all
1049 2011-04-11 12:25:26 <sipa> wow, i found 3 testnet block in 2 minutes!
1050 2011-04-11 12:25:36 <sipa> why don't i have that kind of luck on realnet :(
1051 2011-04-11 12:25:47 <sacarlson> sipa: how would you create another one? and how many nodes would you need to work minimum? 6?
1052 2011-04-11 12:26:20 <Keefe> probably 2 minimum
1053 2011-04-11 12:26:24 <sipa> 2 is enough
1054 2011-04-11 12:26:35 <sipa> that's what testnet-in-a-box does
1055 2011-04-11 12:26:36 <sacarlson> sipa: oh 2 nodes
1056 2011-04-11 12:26:56 <topi`> krytzz: if everybody sells, then there's plenty of more opportunity to mine more btc!
1057 2011-04-11 12:27:11 <sipa> but a completely separate network... needs separate version numbers, ports, genesis block, ...
1058 2011-04-11 12:27:35 <sipa> testnet-in-a-box cheats by using the normal version/ports/genesis, but not connect to any other nodes but your own
1059 2011-04-11 12:29:21 <sacarlson> sipa: so if you created an exchange with different coins at this point each would require a different port with another version interface to drive each
1060 2011-04-11 12:31:02 <scoots> Why do I have to restart bitcoind to get new blocks even if I have more than 10 connections
1061 2011-04-11 12:33:41 Xunie has quit (Quit: Can God microwave a taco so hot that not even *HE* can eat it without burns?)
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1065 2011-04-11 12:35:51 Teppy has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1066 2011-04-11 12:36:39 <Keefe> scoots: shouldn't have to. no problem here
1067 2011-04-11 12:36:51 <scoots> Strangio
1068 2011-04-11 12:36:54 skeledrew has joined
1069 2011-04-11 12:36:59 Poopsie has quit (Quit: bad news is only bad news if i give a fuck!)
1070 2011-04-11 12:37:03 <Keefe> latest version?
1071 2011-04-11 12:37:05 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1072 2011-04-11 12:37:17 <scoots> 32002
1073 2011-04-11 12:37:25 <Keefe> i have 3.19 on windows
1074 2011-04-11 12:37:28 Poopsie has joined
1075 2011-04-11 12:37:36 <scoots> Using ubuntu
1076 2011-04-11 12:37:57 <sacarlson> scoots: I use ubuntu 10.04 I just installed the ppa
1077 2011-04-11 12:38:02 <Keefe> my linux miners are running the latest git src as of a few days ago
1078 2011-04-11 12:39:09 <sacarlson> scoots: but I don't even runt the bitcoind yet or haven't tried it yet I should say
1079 2011-04-11 12:41:14 AAA_awright_ has joined
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1081 2011-04-11 12:50:42 <scoots> Tried to figure it out but what is the minconf parameter in api calls?
1082 2011-04-11 12:51:18 <WakiMiko> at least X confirmations
1083 2011-04-11 12:51:40 <scoots> Ahh, right (:
1084 2011-04-11 12:55:18 <krytzz> topi`: but the current efforts are basically wasted and that would discourage many people for the idea itself
1085 2011-04-11 12:56:53 forrestv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1092 2011-04-11 13:12:38 <knotwork> $2 sacarlson
1093 2011-04-11 13:12:57 <knotwork> $0.02 sacarlson
1094 2011-04-11 13:12:58 <NickelBot> You must AUTH before using !exec commands.
1095 2011-04-11 13:13:17 <sacarlson> knotwork: $2 for what?
1096 2011-04-11 13:13:31 <knotwork> hmm . anyway, point is there are several alternate blockchains already, accessible via nickelbot and its friends
1097 2011-04-11 13:14:06 <knotwork> its a give two cents routine, telling nickelbot to give you 0.4 bitnickels (which would be two cents if bitnickels were five cents)
1098 2011-04-11 13:14:44 <knotwork> nickelbot supports several alternate blockchain currencies, support as in assigning you an address in each one you use,
1099 2011-04-11 13:15:01 <knotwork> and letting you exchange between the various currencies
1100 2011-04-11 13:15:43 <knotwork> I didnt mean $2 I meant $0.02 it has no $2 command yet as two cents is traditional worth of someone's input
1101 2011-04-11 13:16:08 dermoth has quit (home!~thomas@dsl-129-40.aei.ca|Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1102 2011-04-11 13:18:22 Xunie has quit (Quit: Can God microwave a taco so hot that not even *HE* can eat it without burns?)
1103 2011-04-11 13:23:30 Xunie has joined
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1105 2011-04-11 13:23:44 Xunie has joined
1106 2011-04-11 13:25:54 <sacarlson> knotwork: not finding anything on google with search of "nickelbot bitcoin"
1107 2011-04-11 13:27:25 <knotwork> try /msk NickelBot help
1108 2011-04-11 13:27:32 <knotwork> s/msk/msg/
1109 2011-04-11 13:27:32 Xunie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1110 2011-04-11 13:28:16 Xunie has joined
1111 2011-04-11 13:28:40 <sacarlson> knotwork: but I guess what I was dreaming about was that you could run another blockchain that started from a preset number of coins from start to end, no growth that are basicly just shares in something like a trust of gold or ??
1112 2011-04-11 13:29:18 <knotwork> say doubtless someone savvy enough to hack it thusly could. these are very minimal hacks, changing only the
1113 2011-04-11 13:29:26 tabsa has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
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1115 2011-04-11 13:29:47 <knotwork> genesis block, the port number, and the irc channel, and implemented by hacking the -testnet parts of the code
1116 2011-04-11 13:29:54 funkenstein has joined
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1118 2011-04-11 13:30:20 <knotwork> so each such currency has its own compiled bitcoin that does real bitcoin by default and hacked coin when -testnet is set
1119 2011-04-11 13:30:54 <knotwork> since real testnet is useless for gaming purposes due to they vanish the coins from time to time, these are a more
1120 2011-04-11 13:31:25 <knotwork> useful use of the -testnet switch for people inteested in an alternate that wont vanish under them
1121 2011-04-11 13:33:10 <knotwork> the way that nickelbot and its friends do exchanges acts as a backing bank for each currency, backing each with the
1122 2011-04-11 13:33:18 <sacarlson> knotwork: so you need some base this irc? what is the irc used in bitcoin now?
1123 2011-04-11 13:33:44 <knotwork> others, so that for example any BTC used to buy NKL is only available for the bot to buy back NKL, not for it to
1124 2011-04-11 13:34:09 <knotwork> use to buy CDN or CZB or anthing else, each of which would only be able to use any BTC that was spent on it with which
1125 2011-04-11 13:34:12 <knotwork> to buy itself back
1126 2011-04-11 13:34:32 <knotwork> IRC is used in bitcoin as one way of finding peers to network with
1127 2011-04-11 13:35:16 <knotwork> these currencies so far are using private links so have the -noirc flag set as they dont need to find random peers
1128 2011-04-11 13:35:33 <knotwork> they know who the various fellow banker/miners are
1129 2011-04-11 13:36:08 <sacarlson> knotwork: I have an irc already running on my system so I guess I could use that in another chain
1130 2011-04-11 13:36:14 <knotwork> also that way the have no worries yet that someone with GPUs will come along and blow their CPU mining out of the water
1131 2011-04-11 13:37:13 <knotwork> wow this many alternate chains isn't enough ha thats hilarious since some folk even one is too many hahaha
1132 2011-04-11 13:37:30 <sacarlson> knotwork: well I didn't plan on using mining just create a block of 1mil coins to start to end
1133 2011-04-11 13:38:05 <knotwork> why only one million? also, how fast will you sell that many? these guys' plan is that they only need issue as many as
1134 2011-04-11 13:38:33 <knotwork> actually are needed in circulation, any not yet circulated are effectively non-existent since all that money is is an IOU
1135 2011-04-11 13:38:52 <sacarlson> knotwork: well since you can break them into .000001 shares 1 million should be plenty of shares as in how many shares are in IBM
1136 2011-04-11 13:39:00 <knotwork> from the issuer of the money admitting they owe the bearder of the money the value represented by that money
1137 2011-04-11 13:39:38 <knotwork> well then why not buy one bitnickel, and use millionths of a nickel as shares? ;)
1138 2011-04-11 13:40:09 <sacarlson> knotwork: in this case you could sell only 1/2 or just a percent of them and have the trust hold the rest until a time that was needed
1139 2011-04-11 13:40:39 citiz3n has joined
1140 2011-04-11 13:40:51 <sacarlson> knotwork: yes that's probly all you would really need just one coin to start
1141 2011-04-11 13:40:58 <knotwork> the GRF (General Returement Fund) and GMC (General Mining Corp) shares figure those not issued are the wealth
1142 2011-04-11 13:41:10 <knotwork> controlled by the votes of those who hold issued ones
1143 2011-04-11 13:41:41 <knotwork> so basically if only five people are issued one share each, then each time 50 shares are mined that is 10 more value each of
1144 2011-04-11 13:42:02 <knotwork> the issued 5 effectively have
1145 2011-04-11 13:42:17 <citiz3n> are you talking about the new pool?
1146 2011-04-11 13:42:47 <knotwork> basically the corp owns eventually 21 million or so coins, and that wealth is the capitol of which those who own shares
1147 2011-04-11 13:42:53 <knotwork> themselves have a share
1148 2011-04-11 13:43:26 <knotwork> pool? no they have not solved the pools matter yet, this is just the shares currencies themselves
1149 2011-04-11 13:43:36 <sacarlson> knotwork: you couldn't mine in a trust, the trust doesn't create anymore stuf only what it started with, don't think you want any mining in this case
1150 2011-04-11 13:44:00 Dark_Ghost has joined
1151 2011-04-11 13:44:26 <knotwork> well a trust maybe isnt the same as shares of a corporation
1152 2011-04-11 13:44:32 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1153 2011-04-11 13:45:00 <knotwork> General Retirement Funds isnt a trust its a corp like General Mining Corp that invests in investments instead of in mining
1154 2011-04-11 13:45:19 <sacarlson> knotwork: well a trust could own shares in a corporation or many corporations but to keep it simple lets just say it has 100 onces of gold
1155 2011-04-11 13:46:26 <knotwork> they have no gold YET, but plan to each have many of all the others' coins
1156 2011-04-11 13:47:09 <sacarlson> knotwork: oh so this is already planed?
1157 2011-04-11 13:47:16 <knotwork> so eventually once each has issued 100,000 coins times number of them, they will ech own 100,000 of each other one's coins
1158 2011-04-11 13:47:56 <knotwork> they have a pact to internally between themselves only not necessarily to joe sixpack exchange at par
1159 2011-04-11 13:48:20 <knotwork> for up until some possible future when that might be up for re-negotiation
1160 2011-04-11 13:48:33 <sacarlson> knotwork: I thought we could just make 1 coin for the 100 onces and just break it into .0000001 to distibute to whoever whats to buy shares in the coin
1161 2011-04-11 13:48:39 <knotwork> I think its at least until they all own a million of eacher's coins something like that
1162 2011-04-11 13:49:29 <knotwork> yeah but this way if more people come along who also want shares in the corporate/trust assets, more shares can be issued
1163 2011-04-11 13:50:07 <knotwork> normal corps on earth tend to issue shares any time they allow more people to buy in, the assets the buyers
1164 2011-04-11 13:50:31 <knotwork> use to buy in increase the corp's assets thus adding shares need not dilute value of existing shares
1165 2011-04-11 13:50:37 parus has joined
1166 2011-04-11 13:50:50 <knotwork> maybe could even increase their value if the new ones are bought at premium price
1167 2011-04-11 13:51:07 <sacarlson> knotwork: so now 1 millionth of 100 ounces of gold is to big? we would just create another trust with another 100 ounces and sell more coins
1168 2011-04-11 13:51:19 <knotwork> presmably if shares are voting shares the already issuing ones had to vote anyway to decide whether to issue more
1169 2011-04-11 13:51:28 parus has quit (Quit: leaving)
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1171 2011-04-11 13:52:18 <knotwork> I am interested in how this would work sacarlson, the people doing specifically shares ones, the GMC and GRT ones,
1172 2011-04-11 13:52:19 <sacarlson> knotwork: oh you could do a split so you turn in your old coins for the new coins to make more coins
1173 2011-04-11 13:52:34 <knotwork> might be interested in your method too as they are still arguing how theirs should be done
1174 2011-04-11 13:53:03 <sacarlson> knotwork: oh so those weren't imaginary those were exampls
1175 2011-04-11 13:53:05 <knotwork> a split is interesting, however dividends is what they have been thinking
1176 2011-04-11 13:53:29 <knotwork> periodically all the new coins mined are shared out among all accounts that have at least a full coin balance
1177 2011-04-11 13:53:42 <knotwork> shared in proportion to how many coins the account has
1178 2011-04-11 13:54:03 <knotwork> GRF and GMC are both in NickelBot
1179 2011-04-11 13:54:06 <sacarlson> knotwork: well in a trust of gold there is no dividend in fact there are fee's that need to be paid to keep the trust going so over time some of the sub coins will be burned to stay in existance
1180 2011-04-11 13:54:19 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1181 2011-04-11 13:54:55 <sacarlson> knotwork: well I looked for nickelbot already and failed
1182 2011-04-11 13:55:24 <knotwork> limiting oneself to gold is kind of limited though, nicer to just hae assets, which might happen to be mostly gold
1183 2011-04-11 13:55:30 <knotwork> but could have other things too
1184 2011-04-11 13:55:38 <knotwork> diversified portfolio maybe
1185 2011-04-11 13:56:03 <knotwork> if you want shares of gold, use pecunix, let them do all the clerical work overhead etc
1186 2011-04-11 13:57:04 <knotwork> there is argument currently about whether GRF or GMC should do the virtual real estate stuff or a whole new corp
1187 2011-04-11 13:57:08 <sacarlson> knotwork: well in reality you should be able to trade any comodity, corporation, or aset. but the method of moving who hold the ownership seems would be about the same
1188 2011-04-11 13:57:29 <knotwork> should be formed, General Housing Corp or General Real Estate or some such, to handle "virtual estate"
1189 2011-04-11 13:58:36 <knotwork> both GRF and GMC can easily hold gold, in pecunix form, it is entirely up to those who buy into GRF and or GMC whether
1190 2011-04-11 13:58:55 <sacarlson> knotwork: pecunix form?
1191 2011-04-11 13:59:02 <knotwork> gold is an asset they'd like to see the things hold in order to feel comfortable that the shares have value
1192 2011-04-11 13:59:32 <knotwork> pecunia? pecunics? pecunix? some e-gold type thing I happen to have almost a gram of gold in
1193 2011-04-11 14:00:29 <knotwork> so for example if you would like GRF or GMC to hold gold, you could offer to buy some of their shares using gold
1194 2011-04-11 14:00:48 <knotwork> the gold you paid becomes part of the assets "backing" the shares
1195 2011-04-11 14:00:51 <sacarlson> knotwork: oh I know nothing of such a thing. I just buy and sell GLD on new york exchange, but I have to pay for transacting it each time
1196 2011-04-11 14:01:51 <knotwork> e-gold had monthly fee that slowly eroded one's holdings, dunno if pecinux does or if its their lack of such fee
1197 2011-04-11 14:02:09 <knotwork> that caused me to actualyl still have some left after all these years since I ever used it
1198 2011-04-11 14:02:41 <sacarlson> knotwork: yes as I said the trust would cost money so the scale if too small or badly managed could burn it up in no time
1199 2011-04-11 14:03:28 <knotwork> well these ones should not cost much. lets say you were first person ever to buy a share of either of them
1200 2011-04-11 14:03:57 <sacarlson> knotwork: well real estate would have a similar problem since you normaly have to pay tax on it so I'm not sure there is any aset other than a corporation that would be at least free to hold
1201 2011-04-11 14:03:58 <knotwork> if you bought it using 100 ounces of gold, you now own the only issued share of an asset pool that contains not only
1202 2011-04-11 14:04:33 <knotwork> 100 ounces of gold but also 50 un-issued read to sell at shareholder decisionmking process's liesure share-coins
1203 2011-04-11 14:04:44 <knotwork> per block that is solved
1204 2011-04-11 14:05:18 <EvanR-work> knotwork can you say more than 1/4 of a sentence before pressin return
1205 2011-04-11 14:05:24 <knotwork> so maybe your 100 ounces went up in value by letting "your" corp hold them
1206 2011-04-11 14:05:40 <knotwork> I say "your" corp since we are assuming only you have yet bought any of its shares
1207 2011-04-11 14:06:51 <sacarlson> knotwork: well the corporation has to file tax each year and pay state registrations, and someone has to get paid to handle all that stuf
1208 2011-04-11 14:07:39 <knotwork> these are not govt registered corps, they are virtual/game concept corps, mere software fantasies using bits to represent data
1209 2011-04-11 14:07:58 <sacarlson> knotwork: oh now you tell me
1210 2011-04-11 14:08:08 <knotwork> if you are only shareholder you can choose to pay yourself what you want
1211 2011-04-11 14:08:40 <knotwork> you can choose to be the only miner, or to have some friends also mine for you, or to release data allowing anyone to
1212 2011-04-11 14:08:43 <knotwork> mine
1213 2011-04-11 14:09:21 <sacarlson> knotwork: I don't know why you would need mining in this case
1214 2011-04-11 14:09:30 TheKid has joined
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1217 2011-04-11 14:09:40 <knotwork> dont all it mining then. call it blockchain building
1218 2011-04-11 14:10:20 <knotwork> internally the "corp" issued 50 coins per block so it can potentially use them to pay for blockchain building
1219 2011-04-11 14:11:28 <knotwork> but unless someone other than the corp itself ever does it's blockchain-building, all those 50 coin units are all just
1220 2011-04-11 14:11:52 <sacarlson> knotwork: why don't you continue your sentence?
1221 2011-04-11 14:11:57 <knotwork> more assets owned by the corp, thus by you if you are only person it has ever issued any to
1222 2011-04-11 14:12:25 <knotwork> most IRC channels I see attempts at wrap so try to emulate but sometimes do run beyond width
1223 2011-04-11 14:13:01 <knotwork> now sure what input size limit is for the protocol either for that matter
1224 2011-04-11 14:13:06 <knotwork> s/now/not/
1225 2011-04-11 14:13:20 <sacarlson> oh wow it's my beer time
1226 2011-04-11 14:14:35 <sacarlson> knotwork: nice chat hope we didn't get too far off topic, but I have interest in this concept of how the bitcoin works
1227 2011-04-11 14:14:49 <scoots> Is there any reason why you can not delete accounts/addresses from the api
1228 2011-04-11 14:15:41 <knotwork> me too. didnt know enough to hack it to start with X coins and not reward miners, so figured if only want limited number can turn off mining in clients at some block later once have enough coins, meanwhile make the initial coins by mining them
1229 2011-04-11 14:15:52 citiz3n has quit ()
1230 2011-04-11 14:15:58 <sipa> scoots: 1) it's dangerous 2) nobody implemented it :)
1231 2011-04-11 14:16:32 bamccaig has joined
1232 2011-04-11 14:19:54 <bamccaig> I'm trying to build from source in Fedora.
1233 2011-04-11 14:19:58 <luke-jr> fwiw, uploaded a screenshot of how https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin-Watch should look with a standards-compliant IRC client :p
1234 2011-04-11 14:20:25 <bamccaig> Apparently there are no packages that provide /usr/include/openssl/ecdsa.h.
1235 2011-04-11 14:20:30 <bamccaig> Anybody know where that file comes from?
1236 2011-04-11 14:20:43 <krytzz> nice luke-jr
1237 2011-04-11 14:21:43 <krytzz> bamccaig: my openssl has it, perhaps its disabled in compiletime in the fedora package
1238 2011-04-11 14:24:15 Luke-Jr[Q] has joined
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1255 2011-04-11 14:48:36 <funkenstein> is there version where i can send less then .01 BTC yet?
1256 2011-04-11 14:48:52 <maxlo> ok, so here i posted: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5700.0
1257 2011-04-11 14:49:01 <luke-jr> funkenstein: sure
1258 2011-04-11 14:49:04 <maxlo> let's see what people think
1259 2011-04-11 14:49:37 xelister has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1260 2011-04-11 14:49:49 * Kiba ponders a profit making scheme with jstet
1261 2011-04-11 14:49:52 danbri has joined
1262 2011-04-11 14:50:05 Teslah has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1263 2011-04-11 14:50:32 <luke-jr> maxlo: Spesmilo already works :D
1264 2011-04-11 14:51:00 <Kiba> mahuahahahahhahaha
1265 2011-04-11 14:51:00 Zarutian has joined
1266 2011-04-11 14:51:11 <Kiba> I am about to triple the size of my content empire
1267 2011-04-11 14:51:13 <Kiba> MUHAHHAHAAHAHHAHA
1268 2011-04-11 14:51:20 <Kiba> ahem..
1269 2011-04-11 14:51:47 <maxlo> what is spesmilo? (i am new, very new, to bitcoin)
1270 2011-04-11 14:51:52 <maxlo> another client?
1271 2011-04-11 14:52:01 <Kiba> what's spesmilo, luke-jr?
1272 2011-04-11 14:52:03 eddienull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1273 2011-04-11 14:52:11 <Kiba> even I don't know, and I am into bitcoin longer than you
1274 2011-04-11 14:52:28 <sipa> a separate bitcoin gui, that connects using rpc?
1275 2011-04-11 14:52:47 <maxlo> it seems another client. but anyways, i guess that it would be a good idea to fix the "original" client
1276 2011-04-11 14:53:05 <sipa> the original client can
1277 2011-04-11 14:53:21 <sipa> only the gui doesn't allow it, but if you use rpc calls, it works fine
1278 2011-04-11 14:53:30 <sipa> and that will be fixed in the next release
1279 2011-04-11 14:55:49 gasteve has joined
1280 2011-04-11 14:56:25 Kiba has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1281 2011-04-11 14:57:08 <luke-jr> maxlo: PySide/Qt client
1282 2011-04-11 14:57:43 <luke-jr> sipa: maxlo is talking about systray behaviour, not subcent
1283 2011-04-11 15:05:56 maxlo is now known as maxlo|away
1284 2011-04-11 15:10:59 Teslah has joined
1285 2011-04-11 15:20:54 dermoth has joined
1286 2011-04-11 15:22:43 <bamccaig> Whoo, red two-door coupe, $1050/year for insurance (knowing about my latest speeding ticket)! \o/
1287 2011-04-11 15:22:55 <bamccaig> Err, wrong channel. ;D
1288 2011-04-11 15:23:30 <bamccaig> krytzz: Thanks... I guess I'll have to install deps by hand. :(
1289 2011-04-11 15:24:29 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1292 2011-04-11 15:27:39 <camel2> who knows PHP and wants 30 bitcoins?
1293 2011-04-11 15:27:46 <EvanR-work> camel2: i do
1294 2011-04-11 15:27:52 <EvanR-work> but i dont think thats the right question
1295 2011-04-11 15:28:04 <sipa> depends, do i have to do anything in addition to knowing PHP?
1296 2011-04-11 15:28:06 <[Tycho]> What's your question ?
1297 2011-04-11 15:28:07 <camel2> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2004.20
1298 2011-04-11 15:28:21 <camel2> i need to repair that module
1299 2011-04-11 15:28:21 <camel2> the prestashop one
1300 2011-04-11 15:28:47 <camel2> on PS 1.3 it worked ok, but now it won't save the orders in the database
1301 2011-04-11 15:29:07 <camel2> it processes ok, payments are made but... no evidence of the order
1302 2011-04-11 15:29:58 <EvanR-work> sipa: no it doesnt depend, whether you not you have to do anything doent change whether you want bitcoins or knew php ;)
1303 2011-04-11 15:31:00 <camel2> also the module won't appear in "currencies restriction" page
1304 2011-04-11 15:31:11 <camel2> but that's not an issue
1305 2011-04-11 15:31:32 <luke-jr> camel2: I think you want someone who knows what PS is
1306 2011-04-11 15:31:44 <camel2> i think it's just a compatibility problem.
1307 2011-04-11 15:31:47 <camel2> Prestashop
1308 2011-04-11 15:31:55 <camel2> e-commerce platform
1309 2011-04-11 15:32:15 <luke-jr> point being, looks like something that would take me over an hour, since I don't know anything about it, so not worth 30 BTC
1310 2011-04-11 15:32:37 <camel2> ok...
1311 2011-04-11 15:35:18 echelon is now known as ashkelon
1312 2011-04-11 15:36:52 <KuT-Sickness> btw camel2, be carefull who you let working on your webshop ;)
1313 2011-04-11 15:38:56 <camel2> i won't let anyone. who wants the bounty can download ps1.4 and the module. theyre free
1314 2011-04-11 15:39:03 <bamccaig> $monies->give($you, 1); $monies->give($me, 2);
1315 2011-04-11 15:39:27 <camel2> ?
1316 2011-04-11 15:40:09 <bamccaig> i.e., what happens when you ask just anybody to maintain your webshop codez. ;D
1317 2011-04-11 15:43:55 <camel2> i don't know php but I ain't dumb. i test everything first
1318 2011-04-11 15:45:18 funkenstein has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1319 2011-04-11 15:45:36 camel2 has quit (Quit: exit error code 434)
1320 2011-04-11 15:46:08 scoots has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
1321 2011-04-11 15:50:38 <bamccaig> :\
1322 2011-04-11 15:50:40 <tabsa> what if switch off my bitcoin client, and i have some unconfirmed recieved BTC, will the network confirms them automatically, or do i have to participate?
1323 2011-04-11 15:50:58 <MacRohard> the network confirms them
1324 2011-04-11 15:51:15 <MacRohard> you'll have to wait for your client to catch up with the blocks when you turn it back on before you can see it though
1325 2011-04-11 15:51:36 <tabsa> k, got it :)
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1328 2011-04-11 15:53:36 <luke-jr> tabsa: the reality is, bitcoins aren't in your wallet
1329 2011-04-11 15:53:42 <luke-jr> they're in a distributed safe deposit box
1330 2011-04-11 15:53:48 <luke-jr> your wallet just holds the key to it
1331 2011-04-11 15:55:25 <tabsa> yeah. now i remember reading about, it just didn't click
1332 2011-04-11 15:55:32 jeremias has joined
1333 2011-04-11 15:56:15 <tabsa> i remember reading about it, but it didn't quite click until you put it this way <- thats what i wanted to say
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1339 2011-04-11 16:10:07 ashkelon is now known as echelon
1340 2011-04-11 16:10:39 da2ce7 is now known as da2ceZzzz
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1344 2011-04-11 16:17:22 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stats
1345 2011-04-11 16:17:25 <gribble> Current Blocks: 117835 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 1108 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 3 hours, 7 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 88991.37540922
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1359 2011-04-11 16:51:17 <kiba> hey guys
1360 2011-04-11 16:51:59 <luke-jr> kiba: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
1361 2011-04-11 16:54:19 <kiba> what's the video about?
1362 2011-04-11 16:54:39 <luke-jr> Bitcoin promo
1363 2011-04-11 16:54:48 <kiba> is it that animation video?
1364 2011-04-11 16:57:26 larsivi has joined
1365 2011-04-11 16:58:13 <luke-jr> kiba: new one
1366 2011-04-11 16:59:02 mstevens has joined
1367 2011-04-11 16:59:09 * sipa was rickrolled :(
1368 2011-04-11 16:59:13 * mstevens attempts to grok bitcoins
1369 2011-04-11 16:59:32 <luke-jr> XD
1370 2011-04-11 16:59:44 * kiba wasn't rickrolled
1371 2011-04-11 17:04:28 <kiba> luke-jr: you have to a lot better at rickrolling me
1372 2011-04-11 17:04:43 <luke-jr> kiba: Spesmilo.
1373 2011-04-11 17:05:42 <cosurgi> the fan died
1374 2011-04-11 17:06:03 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
1375 2011-04-11 17:06:47 <cosurgi> ArtForz - I travelled 15km this moorning, and it turns out that the left fan died. It's an 5850 from gigabyte, two-fanned version.
1376 2011-04-11 17:07:16 <luke-jr> cosurgi: what happened?
1377 2011-04-11 17:07:22 <cosurgi> I RMA-ed it in local shop. Will take two weeks, and I'll lose about 55 BTC due to that.
1378 2011-04-11 17:07:41 <luke-jr> cosurgi: I mean, what were the practical effects when the fan died?
1379 2011-04-11 17:08:06 <cosurgi> luke-jr: the fan. it died. No more rotating. The GPU temp kept steady at 95 C for 12 hours straight.
1380 2011-04-11 17:08:34 <luke-jr> does it meltdown or catch fire?
1381 2011-04-11 17:08:35 <cosurgi> when trying to bring it up - hard hang.
1382 2011-04-11 17:08:37 <midnightmagic> cosurgi: that's supposed to be something the cards can take.
1383 2011-04-11 17:09:21 dukeleto has joined
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1385 2011-04-11 17:09:23 <cosurgi> I took it off from PCc, and looked quite OK, no smell, no burns, nothing. Only I couldn't rotate the fan with my fingers.
1386 2011-04-11 17:10:14 <jgarzik> where is lfm, when you need 'em?
1387 2011-04-11 17:10:17 <cosurgi> and was very clean.
1388 2011-04-11 17:10:48 <cosurgi> The guy in the shop was thinking that I used vacuum cleaner before RMA. I told that I didn't -- I just keep it in an air conditioned server rooom.
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1447 2011-04-11 17:35:50 <graingert> ArtForz, heya
1448 2011-04-11 17:36:16 <graingert> ArtForz, apparently you are working on FPGA's for mining?
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1466 2011-04-11 17:40:46 <[Tycho]> graingert, are you talking about ASICs ?
1467 2011-04-11 17:42:53 <graingert> [Tycho], ASIC's or FPGA's
1468 2011-04-11 17:43:05 bitcoiner has joined
1469 2011-04-11 17:43:38 <graingert> [Tycho], like what kind of MHash/w are we talking about with one?
1470 2011-04-11 17:45:51 <[Tycho]> 5 times more effective than GPU
1471 2011-04-11 17:46:13 <[Tycho]> Should be more with ceramic packaging.
1472 2011-04-11 17:47:03 <topi`> an ASIC you would need to order in thousands, a FPGA is readily available for programming
1473 2011-04-11 17:47:30 <[Tycho]> You'll need some expensive FPGAs for that.
1474 2011-04-11 17:47:46 phantomcircuit has joined
1475 2011-04-11 17:48:35 <mtrlt> i was playing around with poclbm's code and i think it has a bug.
1476 2011-04-11 17:49:12 <graingert> [Tycho], well presumably a big enough bitcoin mining group could order a thousand and sell them on
1477 2011-04-11 17:49:13 <mtrlt> namely, the opencl program seems to calculate part of the hash wrong
1478 2011-04-11 17:49:23 <graingert> once they had enough interest
1479 2011-04-11 17:49:43 <mtrlt> so it could theoretically miss a valid block
1480 2011-04-11 17:50:05 <phantomcircuit> mtrlt, what's the bug
1481 2011-04-11 17:50:11 xelister has joined
1482 2011-04-11 17:50:29 <xelister> high levels of faggotry detected on Sony blog. Fanbois much? http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/11/settlement-in-george-hotz-case/
1483 2011-04-11 17:50:33 scoots has joined
1484 2011-04-11 17:51:12 <mtrlt> the opencl program is given the difficulty of H=0 and G=0xFFFF0000 as arguments. the opencl program generates a hash and checks that the higher part of the hash is indeed less than the difficulty. But the value for G is not calculated right
1485 2011-04-11 17:51:14 <phantomcircuit> xelister, obvious astro turfing is obvious
1486 2011-04-11 17:51:34 <xelister> phantomcircuit: i wonder thou, where did this amount of faggot supporters
1487 2011-04-11 17:51:40 <xelister> are they payable or what
1488 2011-04-11 17:51:52 <phantomcircuit> im guessing sony paid people to comment
1489 2011-04-11 17:51:59 <phantomcircuit> or they just paid someone to delete any bad comments
1490 2011-04-11 17:52:05 <phantomcircuit> taking a page out of apples handbook
1491 2011-04-11 17:52:20 <mtrlt> but in practice the value is rarely above 0xFFFF0000 so it doesn't affect anything that much.
1492 2011-04-11 17:52:23 <mtrlt> it's still a bug :P
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1494 2011-04-11 17:52:44 <[Tycho]> graingert, you'll also need PCB design and assembly.
1495 2011-04-11 17:53:00 <[Tycho]> AND FPGAs for interfacing.
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1497 2011-04-11 17:53:22 <mtrlt> plus the opencl program has three lines commented that modify G
1498 2011-04-11 17:53:27 <mtrlt> and no explanation
1499 2011-04-11 17:53:39 <mtrlt> tried uncommenting them but it didn't fix it
1500 2011-04-11 17:53:44 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1502 2011-04-11 17:55:37 <[Tycho]> mtrlt, why do you want to "fix" it ?
1503 2011-04-11 17:55:56 <mtrlt> because it could miss a valid block
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1505 2011-04-11 17:56:43 <mtrlt> there could be a valid block but the opencl program calculates the hash wrong, and doesn't report the valid nonce.
1506 2011-04-11 17:57:46 <mtrlt> but when the wrong calculation happens the other way, namely that an invalid block is reported as valid by the opencl program, it is just ignored by the main python program
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1508 2011-04-11 18:03:32 <mtrlt> proposed fix: as the target given to opencl is hardcoded anyway, i'd drop the target altogether from opencl and just report nonces that lead to hashes for which the first 4 bytes are zero
1509 2011-04-11 18:03:56 <mtrlt> as it seems that the first 4 bytes are calculated correctly, it's just the next 4 bytes that are not
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1511 2011-04-11 18:09:36 <nanotube> mtrlt: mmm, post on the forums about it and see what floats up. :)
1512 2011-04-11 18:13:23 <grbgout> Are sub-cent amounts still lost? (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Pooled_mining#Comparison )
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1514 2011-04-11 18:17:04 <grbgout> Are the comments about losing sub-cents even legitimate? I was under the impression sub-cents were fine.
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1517 2011-04-11 18:22:04 <phantomcircuit> grbgout, what now?
1518 2011-04-11 18:22:25 <grbgout> phantomcircuit: take a look at that wiki page, please.
1519 2011-04-11 18:22:36 <grbgout> It claims sub-cent amounts may be lost from wallets.
1520 2011-04-11 18:24:56 <phantomcircuit> oh
1521 2011-04-11 18:25:01 <phantomcircuit> yeah that might be a problem
1522 2011-04-11 18:25:45 <grbgout> That's disconcerting.
1523 2011-04-11 18:25:48 <nanotube> grbgout: lost due to tx fees.
1524 2011-04-11 18:26:06 <nanotube> grbgout: but it's not really an issue for pools specifically anymore, because puddinpop-style pools are no longer in operation.
1525 2011-04-11 18:26:27 <phantomcircuit> grbgout, basically it's lost because sending subcent amounts requires a transaction fee equal to or greater than the subcent amount
1526 2011-04-11 18:26:44 <grbgout> Someone with an understanding of what's going on may want to update that page to explain they aren't being lost, they're being spent to cover transaction fees.
1527 2011-04-11 18:26:44 lyspooner has joined
1528 2011-04-11 18:26:44 <phantomcircuit> although if you did the consolidation of multiple subcent amounts in a single transaction it wouldn't be an issue
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1530 2011-04-11 18:27:15 <jgarzik> [2011-03-11 13:22:00] LONGPOLL detected new block
1531 2011-04-11 18:27:15 <jgarzik> [2011-03-11 13:23:34] LONGPOLL detected new block
1532 2011-04-11 18:27:15 <jgarzik> [2011-03-11 13:35:00] LONGPOLL detected new block
1533 2011-04-11 18:27:15 <jgarzik> [2011-03-11 13:40:58] LONGPOLL detected new block
1534 2011-04-11 18:27:15 <jgarzik> [2011-03-11 13:49:19] LONGPOLL detected new block
1535 2011-04-11 18:27:15 <jgarzik> [2011-03-11 13:56:57] LONGPOLL detected new block
1536 2011-04-11 18:27:24 <luke-jr> jgarzik: wtf?
1537 2011-04-11 18:27:25 <jgarzik> boy, that was a bunch of blocks in a row
1538 2011-04-11 18:27:41 <jgarzik> six blocks minted in under a minute
1539 2011-04-11 18:30:50 <phantomcircuit> lol
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1544 2011-04-11 18:33:25 <luke-jr> jgarzik: um, except those weren't real blocks? :/
1545 2011-04-11 18:33:43 <Lycurgus> the colors ljrbot uses in bitcoin watch are hard to read
1546 2011-04-11 18:33:45 <jgarzik> luke-jr: what makes you think that?
1547 2011-04-11 18:34:01 <luke-jr> or rather, those weren't all under a minute
1548 2011-04-11 18:34:11 <luke-jr> 13:22 to 13:56 is 34 minutes
1549 2011-04-11 18:34:21 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: sure your IRC client is compliant?
1550 2011-04-11 18:34:26 <grbgout> does anyone have the freenode log link handy?
1551 2011-04-11 18:34:46 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin-Watch has a screenshot of what it should look like in a compliant client
1552 2011-04-11 18:34:53 <Lycurgus> lol, compliant with ljrbot?
1553 2011-04-11 18:35:04 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: compliant with the IRC color specification
1554 2011-04-11 18:35:15 <Lycurgus> it's xchat 2.8.6
1555 2011-04-11 18:35:21 <luke-jr> so no
1556 2011-04-11 18:35:26 <luke-jr> but you can configure it
1557 2011-04-11 18:35:29 <Lycurgus> sorry 2.8.8
1558 2011-04-11 18:35:55 <luke-jr> 2.8.8 is what I just tested earlier, and is not compliant out of the box
1559 2011-04-11 18:36:05 <luke-jr> it uses dark colours for bright codes
1560 2011-04-11 18:36:06 <Lycurgus> mIRC colors?
1561 2011-04-11 18:36:08 <luke-jr> yes
1562 2011-04-11 18:36:46 <luke-jr> IIRC, X-Chat would probably look right if I dropped the background colour codes, but then it wouldn't work right in compliant clients
1563 2011-04-11 18:38:08 <luke-jr> (well, not right, but readable at least)
1564 2011-04-11 18:38:26 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: X-Chat config lets you change the colours though-- so if you set them to the standard colours it should be fine
1565 2011-04-11 18:38:47 <Lycurgus> yeah, it doesn't have anything like a color profile though
1566 2011-04-11 18:39:13 <gjs278> I have a white background on my irc
1567 2011-04-11 18:39:17 <gjs278> so the colors are blinding but whatever
1568 2011-04-11 18:39:23 <Lycurgus> just changing the background to black didn't help much, doesn't look like that screen shot
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1570 2011-04-11 18:41:36 <Lycurgus> guess that's a call to start using irssi again
1571 2011-04-11 18:42:19 <grbgout> Someone provided a link a few days (weeks?) ago that explained how the quote here: http://www.bitcoin.org/faq#How_divisible_are_Bitcoins , about "... the [bitcoin] program currently accepts only 2 decimal places" being a purely cosmetic limitation, and full precision was possible. Does anyone happen to remember that link?
1572 2011-04-11 18:42:33 <grbgout> maybe it wasn't a link, maybe they just mentioned it here in IRC....
1573 2011-04-11 18:42:44 <grbgout> is there such a link/page that explains that?
1574 2011-04-11 18:43:15 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: it's the color codes mainly, that are bugged
1575 2011-04-11 18:43:31 <luke-jr> grbgout: 0.3.21 has full precision enabled IIRC
1576 2011-04-11 18:44:49 <grbgout> luke-jr: transactions or display?
1577 2011-04-11 18:45:02 <phantomcircuit> grbgout, display
1578 2011-04-11 18:45:21 <grbgout> As I recall, the desciption in that FAQ applied specifically to their display, and I was wondering if there was a link or page that explained that. It is not clear from the FAQ.
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1580 2011-04-11 18:45:57 <luke-jr> grbgout: both I thought
1581 2011-04-11 18:45:57 <jgarzik> luke-jr: correct, I misread the output. Those blocks were separated by minutes, not seconds.
1582 2011-04-11 18:46:22 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, there's no point in sending subcent transactions
1583 2011-04-11 18:46:24 <grbgout> I'm not personally worried about it, I just want to provide the information to others who think that sub-cent ammounts can't be transferred, or the sub-cent portions of transactions will be lost.
1584 2011-04-11 18:46:36 <grbgout> luke-jr: ah, interesting. I thought it was only aesthetic
1585 2011-04-11 18:46:41 <mtrlt> nanotube: ok, did that :)
1586 2011-04-11 18:46:43 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: depends on which 'subcent transactions' you're referring to
1587 2011-04-11 18:47:15 <grbgout> phantomcircuit: there is a point if you're sending, say, 5.01343098
1588 2011-04-11 18:47:17 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I agree there is little point to transactions sending under 0.01 BTC; however, there are also transactions of, for example 1.00000001 BTC
1589 2011-04-11 18:47:33 <phantomcircuit> true
1590 2011-04-11 18:47:50 <luke-jr> that subcent part is 16 bits of data :D
1591 2011-04-11 18:48:08 <phantomcircuit> which are sent anyways
1592 2011-04-11 18:48:09 <grbgout> That wiki page I linked to earlier has some people thinking they'll be losing the sub-cent portion of their transactions: not /solely/ sub-cent transactions.
1593 2011-04-11 18:48:13 <phantomcircuit> the value field is a uint64
1594 2011-04-11 18:49:42 <grbgout> Hmm, seems bitcoin-0.3.20.2 is still the linked Linux client on bitcoin.org --- I certainly hope the 2 decimal acceptance is cosmetic only =D
1595 2011-04-11 18:50:12 <luke-jr> grbgout: that is correct
1596 2011-04-11 18:50:30 <luke-jr> pre-0.3.21 will silently discard sub-cent portions of coins
1597 2011-04-11 18:50:53 <grbgout> luke-jr: well, 0.3.20.2 certainly seems pre-0.3.21 to me...
1598 2011-04-11 18:50:56 <luke-jr> yep
1599 2011-04-11 18:51:15 <grbgout> then what I just wrote wasn't correct.... They aren't merely cosmetic.
1600 2011-04-11 18:51:28 <Lycurgus> yeah, looks like that in irssi
1601 2011-04-11 18:51:32 <luke-jr> nobody bothered to merge my bugfix until after 0.3.20, since the amount 'lost' is considered trivial
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1603 2011-04-11 18:52:50 <Lycurgus> or close anyway
1604 2011-04-11 18:53:30 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: yeah, it probably won't be exactly the same
1605 2011-04-11 18:53:42 <luke-jr> they're just defined as light/dark specific-colours, not RGBs
1606 2011-04-11 18:53:46 <gjs278> on this transaction it claims I sent 1.16 but I only sent 1 http://blockexplorer.com/tx/4bb169a2e4fd3b86bcf0857a1ad0ca56340bd1f39fd872ac3a91a941c9b437b5#i558137
1607 2011-04-11 18:53:52 <gjs278> my wallet only reflects 1
1608 2011-04-11 18:54:05 <luke-jr> gjs278: you have a 1.16 BTC coin
1609 2011-04-11 18:54:06 <gjs278> so is blockexplorer going to just be consistently off for this address by 16 cents
1610 2011-04-11 18:54:34 <gjs278> what's that mean
1611 2011-04-11 18:54:35 <luke-jr> gjs278: so you melted it down, and made 2 new coins: 1 BTC to 1NkVzâ¦, and the other 0.16 coin to your own "change" address
1612 2011-04-11 18:54:40 <gjs278> hmm
1613 2011-04-11 18:54:45 <luke-jr> the wallet did this internally, and doesn't show it
1614 2011-04-11 18:55:09 <gjs278> oh okay
1615 2011-04-11 18:55:11 <midnightmagic> what does that mean, silently discard? so the sub-cent portions are technically still belonging to the user?
1616 2011-04-11 18:55:12 <Lycurgus> only diff with irssi otb for lenny is the orange is yellow
1617 2011-04-11 18:55:24 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: no, the sub-cent portions are written off as a fee
1618 2011-04-11 18:55:41 <midnightmagic> the fee going to the miner then?
1619 2011-04-11 18:55:48 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: yeah
1620 2011-04-11 18:56:03 <midnightmagic> ah well that's okay. geez, you made it sound like they disappear into the void.
1621 2011-04-11 18:56:06 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: ANSI colour doesn't have an orange ;)
1622 2011-04-11 18:56:07 <grbgout> luke-jr: is this explained somehwere? I would like to link to it.
1623 2011-04-11 18:56:17 <luke-jr> grbgout: probably.
1624 2011-04-11 18:56:22 <grbgout> luke-jr: sweet ;)
1625 2011-04-11 18:56:22 <gjs278> so you can send 1.000001 bitcoins and it will use .000001 as the fee
1626 2011-04-11 18:56:32 <luke-jr> gjs278: no
1627 2011-04-11 18:56:35 <gjs278> dang
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1629 2011-04-11 18:56:46 <gjs278> I was getting tired of paying a cent
1630 2011-04-11 18:56:57 <luke-jr> gjs278: if you have exactly 1.000001 BTC, then it will just send that as-is
1631 2011-04-11 18:57:34 <grbgout> luke-jr: but pre-0.3.21 wont?
1632 2011-04-11 18:57:52 <luke-jr> if you have only a 1.01 BTC coin, and you send 1.000001 BTC, then you will send 1.000001 BTC and it will discard 0.00999999 BTC as the fee
1633 2011-04-11 18:58:06 <luke-jr> grbgout: pre-0.3.21 will, but it won't let you do it
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1635 2011-04-11 18:58:29 <grbgout> luke-jr: lol, huh? It will, but it won't let you? =D
1636 2011-04-11 18:58:47 <luke-jr> grbgout: the internals will handle it correctly, but the GUI and RPC interfaces won't allow you to do it :P
1637 2011-04-11 18:58:58 <grbgout> but CLI will?
1638 2011-04-11 18:59:02 <grbgout> or no, because that relies on RPC
1639 2011-04-11 18:59:03 <luke-jr> there is no CLI
1640 2011-04-11 18:59:17 <luke-jr> that's just a wrapper to the RPC interface
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1642 2011-04-11 18:59:49 <luke-jr> grbgout: the problem is when someone else sends you 1.000001 BTC ;)
1643 2011-04-11 19:00:01 <luke-jr> you cannot spend that without "losing" the 0.000001 BTC silently
1644 2011-04-11 19:00:21 <luke-jr> unless you merge my bugfix :P
1645 2011-04-11 19:00:22 <grbgout> pre-0.3.21, that is.
1646 2011-04-11 19:00:26 <luke-jr> right
1647 2011-04-11 19:00:34 <luke-jr> also post-0.3.21 if that's all you have
1648 2011-04-11 19:00:45 <luke-jr> if you ONLY have a single 1.000001 BTC coin, there is no way to send 1 BTC without losing it
1649 2011-04-11 19:00:49 <grbgout> so your bugfix isn't even in the main branch?
1650 2011-04-11 19:01:13 <luke-jr> it is finally, for 0.3.21
1651 2011-04-11 19:02:00 <grbgout> uhm, then how would post 0.3.21 "also" silently lose the sub-cent?
1652 2011-04-11 19:02:25 <luke-jr> that's if it's the only coin you have
1653 2011-04-11 19:02:33 <luke-jr> it is technically impossible to NOT lose it in that scenario
1654 2011-04-11 19:02:48 <grbgout> Interesting.
1655 2011-04-11 19:03:02 <luke-jr> (unless you know a miner who will accept the change without a bigger fee)
1656 2011-04-11 19:03:11 <grbgout> so if the faucet gave out 0.0500001, then someone transfering 0.05 to someone would have no way of losing that sub-cent, right?
1657 2011-04-11 19:03:25 <luke-jr> no way of keeping
1658 2011-04-11 19:03:32 <grbgout> yeah, that's what I meant
1659 2011-04-11 19:03:43 <luke-jr> you can send the full 0.0500001 ;)
1660 2011-04-11 19:04:05 <grbgout> I thought fees were off in the client by default, so should every miner (who hasn't adjusted their config) be a miner who would accept the change without a larger fee?
1661 2011-04-11 19:04:08 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
1662 2011-04-11 19:04:14 <grbgout> *shouldn't
1663 2011-04-11 19:04:15 <luke-jr> grbgout: no
1664 2011-04-11 19:04:23 gasteve has joined
1665 2011-04-11 19:04:31 <luke-jr> the default policy requires fees to send an amount under 0.01 BTC
1666 2011-04-11 19:04:45 <luke-jr> or over a certain size (for example, combining lots of pennies into a large coin)
1667 2011-04-11 19:04:46 gasteve has quit (Client Quit)
1668 2011-04-11 19:04:57 gasteve has joined
1669 2011-04-11 19:05:56 ybit has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1670 2011-04-11 19:06:01 ybit has joined
1671 2011-04-11 19:07:31 <grbgout> luke-jr: fees required even if that amount under 0.01 BTC is part of a larger transaction? That 0.0500001 example isn't under 0.01 BTC, only a portion of it is.
1672 2011-04-11 19:07:31 pierre` has joined
1673 2011-04-11 19:08:28 <luke-jr> grbgout: if any output is under 0.01 BTC
1674 2011-04-11 19:08:48 <grbgout> luke-jr: 0.0500001 isn't under 0.01...
1675 2011-04-11 19:09:00 <luke-jr> so, to send 0.05 BTC when you only have a 0.0500001 BTC coin, you have 2 outputs: 0.05 BTC to your destination, and 0.0000001 BTC to yourself
1676 2011-04-11 19:09:02 <grbgout> Or do you mean any sub-cent
1677 2011-04-11 19:09:18 <grbgout> ah
1678 2011-04-11 19:09:24 <grbgout> and there's a fee on the second output
1679 2011-04-11 19:09:42 <grbgout> This behavior is consistent with your patch, correct?
1680 2011-04-11 19:09:46 <luke-jr> grbgout: if you don't mind waiting, I accept fees as low as 0.00004096 though ;)
1681 2011-04-11 19:10:22 <grbgout> What would I have to wait for?
1682 2011-04-11 19:10:24 vman has joined
1683 2011-04-11 19:10:29 <luke-jr> what my patch does, is if you have two coins, 0.0500001 BTC and 0.01 BTC, it will use BOTH to make a total of 0.0600001 BTC, and melt that into 0.05 and 0.0100001
1684 2011-04-11 19:10:40 <luke-jr> therefore, there is no output under 0.01
1685 2011-04-11 19:10:46 <grbgout> ah
1686 2011-04-11 19:10:50 <luke-jr> you would have to wait for me to find a block ;)
1687 2011-04-11 19:11:08 <luke-jr> I only find a block about every 2 weeks
1688 2011-04-11 19:11:16 <grbgout> wouldn't /you/ have to wait to find the block to receive the fee?
1689 2011-04-11 19:11:16 slush has joined
1690 2011-04-11 19:11:35 <topi`> i find a block about every 2 years :D
1691 2011-04-11 19:11:43 <slush> jgarzik: hi, I just found that settxfee throws an error when I try to disable fees
1692 2011-04-11 19:11:48 <luke-jr> grbgout: nobody else will include it, if you don't meet their fee requirements
1693 2011-04-11 19:11:57 <luke-jr> as far as I know, I am the only one who will accept 0.00004096 BTC fee
1694 2011-04-11 19:12:04 <slush> jgarzik: because AmountFromValue check '0' as invalid value...
1695 2011-04-11 19:12:13 <luke-jr> slush: I told him that when he first made it :P
1696 2011-04-11 19:12:38 vman has quit (Client Quit)
1697 2011-04-11 19:13:45 <grbgout> ;;bc,wiki
1698 2011-04-11 19:13:45 <gribble> https://bitcoin.it/ | Apr 8, 2011 ... Sourced from Wikipedia. Bitcoin is a digital currency created in 2009 by Satoshi Nakamoto. It is also the name of the open source software ...
1699 2011-04-11 19:13:52 <slush> luke-jr makes the patch quite unusable ;)
1700 2011-04-11 19:14:12 <slush> I hacked it for self, but I expect that jgarzik should fix that in upstream, too
1701 2011-04-11 19:14:25 legion050 has joined
1702 2011-04-11 19:14:25 <luke-jr> slush: it's still more functional than before ;)
1703 2011-04-11 19:14:45 <slush> of course
1704 2011-04-11 19:15:32 <grbgout> hmm, where's the wiki page on transaction fees?
1705 2011-04-11 19:15:41 <grbgout> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees
1706 2011-04-11 19:15:44 <grbgout> who'da thunk it
1707 2011-04-11 19:16:33 gasteve has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1708 2011-04-11 19:16:48 gasteve has joined
1709 2011-04-11 19:16:59 dermoth has joined
1710 2011-04-11 19:16:59 <grbgout> luke-jr: would you update that page with information about your update, with examples explaining the old way contrasted against your new method? It would be especially helpful if it were explained how/why a bitcoin can have different values. I'm pretty sure I saw that explained somewhere, but I don't recall where (may very well be that tx page).
1711 2011-04-11 19:17:11 <grbgout> s/your update/your patch/
1712 2011-04-11 19:20:16 <luke-jr> grbgout: I don't think my patch changes anything on that page
1713 2011-04-11 19:21:00 Poopsie has quit (Quit: bad news is only bad news if i give a fuck!)
1714 2011-04-11 19:21:17 ducki2p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1715 2011-04-11 19:22:08 ducki2p has joined
1716 2011-04-11 19:22:15 <jgarzik> slush: bug fixed, pushed out to jgarzik/bitcoin#settxfee
1717 2011-04-11 19:22:30 <CIA-89> bitcoin: various settxfee * ra51281..a2b6c1 bitcoind-personal/ (init.cpp main.cpp main.h rpc.cpp net.cpp ui.cpp db.cpp): (9 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3bowuvf
1718 2011-04-11 19:22:33 <jgarzik> ("settxfee" is not in mainline client)
1719 2011-04-11 19:23:05 <slush> jgarzik: thanks
1720 2011-04-11 19:24:04 <grbgout> luke-jr: well the transaction fees page might be a good place (or at least /one/ place) to mention how sub-cents can be 'lost' to transaction fees.
1721 2011-04-11 19:28:09 <grbgout> luke-jr: is there a repository for your patched bitcoin? I don't see any post-0.3.20.2 tags in bitcoin's github repository.
1722 2011-04-11 19:29:00 <grbgout> luke-jr: or, failing that, which commit was it?
1723 2011-04-11 19:30:28 jroot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1724 2011-04-11 19:33:23 jackmcbarn_ is now known as jackmcbarn
1725 2011-04-11 19:34:15 <luke-jr> grbgout: my repository is mirrored at http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git
1726 2011-04-11 19:34:28 <luke-jr> but I seem to have deleted that branch since it was merged
1727 2011-04-11 19:34:48 <grbgout> luke-jr: oh, so it was merged into git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git ?
1728 2011-04-11 19:34:59 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind.git/commitdiff/a14bf1946dfade7c615cd41924c7cd41abdbc119
1729 2011-04-11 19:35:01 <luke-jr> yes
1730 2011-04-11 19:35:36 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1731 2011-04-11 19:40:57 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
1732 2011-04-11 19:43:06 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1733 2011-04-11 19:46:34 bitcoiner has joined
1734 2011-04-11 19:51:37 <topi`> anyone seen genjix today?
1735 2011-04-11 19:52:26 Xunie has joined
1736 2011-04-11 19:52:33 <lyspooner> ;;seen genjix
1737 2011-04-11 19:52:33 <gribble> genjix was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 12 hours, 17 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <genjix> sry about that
1738 2011-04-11 19:52:42 <lyspooner> sry about that topi
1739 2011-04-11 19:56:55 dinox has quit (Quit: Changing server)
1740 2011-04-11 19:58:44 dinox has joined
1741 2011-04-11 19:59:29 MartianW has joined
1742 2011-04-11 20:04:15 <phantomcircuit> Exception: Un-recognized opcode 213
1743 2011-04-11 20:04:19 <phantomcircuit> sigh
1744 2011-04-11 20:04:24 <phantomcircuit> CODE EXPLORER TIMEZ
1745 2011-04-11 20:06:20 <phantomcircuit> oh wow
1746 2011-04-11 20:06:25 <phantomcircuit> i like ht eimplicit enum guys
1747 2011-04-11 20:06:27 <phantomcircuit> classy
1748 2011-04-11 20:08:16 sabalaba has joined
1749 2011-04-11 20:08:47 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1750 2011-04-11 20:10:47 MartianW has quit (Quit: Bye all.)
1751 2011-04-11 20:11:39 <dinox> anyone using irssi?
1752 2011-04-11 20:12:02 Diablo-D3 has joined
1753 2011-04-11 20:12:16 <topi`> almost everyone here I think :)
1754 2011-04-11 20:12:27 <dinox> hehe
1755 2011-04-11 20:12:55 <dinox> do you know if there is a way to add server tag to statusbar without making a script?
1756 2011-04-11 20:14:54 OlaRune has joined
1757 2011-04-11 20:15:17 <OlaRune> i'm going to do a ctcp version request from everyone just to get cool stats to show dinox something
1758 2011-04-11 20:15:22 <OlaRune> nothing to worry about
1759 2011-04-11 20:16:42 <OlaRune> 72 irssi users
1760 2011-04-11 20:16:45 <OlaRune> 25 xchat users
1761 2011-04-11 20:17:04 <WakiMiko> WHAT DID U DO TO MY COMPUTAH
1762 2011-04-11 20:17:07 peck has joined
1763 2011-04-11 20:17:19 <OlaRune> and 21 mirc
1764 2011-04-11 20:17:42 <WakiMiko> ;;ctcp version
1765 2011-04-11 20:17:45 <gribble> Error: "ctcp" is not a valid command.
1766 2011-04-11 20:17:45 <OlaRune> i ran a script that gave me statistics of what clients people in a channel use
1767 2011-04-11 20:18:05 <OlaRune> gribble: /ctcp [nick] VERSION
1768 2011-04-11 20:18:07 <OlaRune> i think
1769 2011-04-11 20:18:08 <[Tycho]> Does anyone knows who is the author of "Bitcoin RPC Proxy 0.1.0" ?
1770 2011-04-11 20:18:14 <dinox> ;;bc, gen 745000
1771 2011-04-11 20:18:14 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
1772 2011-04-11 20:18:36 <WakiMiko> nah there is a ctcp plugin for supybot which does what you just did, but gribble doesnt have it loaded
1773 2011-04-11 20:18:47 <OlaRune> peck: from where do i recognize you? :D
1774 2011-04-11 20:19:00 <OlaRune> sweRAT
1775 2011-04-11 20:19:03 <OlaRune> ?
1776 2011-04-11 20:19:56 <OlaRune> oh, gribble is a bot
1777 2011-04-11 20:19:59 * OlaRune fails
1778 2011-04-11 20:20:21 <dinox> ;;bc,gen 745000
1779 2011-04-11 20:20:22 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 745000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 9.0997864496 BTC per day and 0.379157768733 BTC per hour.
1780 2011-04-11 20:22:41 <nanotube> mtrlt: link? :)
1781 2011-04-11 20:26:40 SoobNauce has joined
1782 2011-04-11 20:26:47 <SoobNauce> "This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way. Please contact the application's support team for additional information."
1783 2011-04-11 20:28:22 <phantomcircuit> so im trying to figure out how the scripts actually work
1784 2011-04-11 20:28:25 <phantomcircuit> and so far my conclusion is
1785 2011-04-11 20:28:26 <phantomcircuit> wtf
1786 2011-04-11 20:28:36 <SoobNauce> "EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException" "DbEnv::txn_checkpoint: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery" "C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\bitcoin.exe in ThreadIRCSeed()"
1787 2011-04-11 20:29:27 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 745000
1788 2011-04-11 20:29:28 <SoobNauce> My question is, what do?
1789 2011-04-11 20:29:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 745000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 5 days, 11 hours, 52 minutes, and 16 seconds
1790 2011-04-11 20:29:31 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1791 2011-04-11 20:29:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 117860 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 1083 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 23 hours, 33 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 88809.20080229
1792 2011-04-11 20:29:49 <phantomcircuit> SoobNauce, repeatable ?
1793 2011-04-11 20:29:54 <SoobNauce> phantomcircuit: Very
1794 2011-04-11 20:30:08 <SoobNauce> I have a laptop and a desktop, both capable of running bitcoin.
1795 2011-04-11 20:30:20 <SoobNauce> Desktop is happily running, laptop is miserable
1796 2011-04-11 20:30:41 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1797 2011-04-11 20:31:01 eao has joined
1798 2011-04-11 20:31:34 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
1799 2011-04-11 20:32:40 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1800 2011-04-11 20:33:24 <phantomcircuit> wtf
1801 2011-04-11 20:33:36 <SoobNauce> Any help?
1802 2011-04-11 20:35:00 <phantomcircuit> SoobNauce, going to need more info than that
1803 2011-04-11 20:35:22 <SoobNauce> phantomcircuit: I posted an error message awhile back, did you get that?
1804 2011-04-11 20:35:34 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1805 2011-04-11 20:35:56 <SoobNauce> What more is there?
1806 2011-04-11 20:36:16 <phantomcircuit> well lets see
1807 2011-04-11 20:36:19 <phantomcircuit> you're on windows
1808 2011-04-11 20:36:24 <phantomcircuit> so you might not be able to fix that
1809 2011-04-11 20:36:36 <SoobNauce> My desktop is running bitcoin on windows just fine.
1810 2011-04-11 20:36:37 <phantomcircuit> looks like you had the power die during an fs sync and it died
1811 2011-04-11 20:36:50 <phantomcircuit> sure
1812 2011-04-11 20:36:53 <SoobNauce> "an fs sync" = delete bitcoin chain and my computer will be shiny again?
1813 2011-04-11 20:36:53 <phantomcircuit> right up until it wont
1814 2011-04-11 20:37:15 <phantomcircuit> SoobNauce, yeah it'll take a couple hours to rebuild though
1815 2011-04-11 20:37:17 <SoobNauce> It's probably the fact that I sleep my computer with all programs running
1816 2011-04-11 20:37:33 x6763 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1817 2011-04-11 20:37:37 <topi`> I'm translating the Bitcoin wikipedia page into Finnish. Anyone else doing such an undertaking?
1818 2011-04-11 20:37:42 <SoobNauce> Which file contains the chain?
1819 2011-04-11 20:37:42 <phantomcircuit> it's probably that you slept the computer and then killed the power
1820 2011-04-11 20:37:53 <phantomcircuit> SoobNauce, on windows? i have no clue
1821 2011-04-11 20:37:56 x6763 has joined
1822 2011-04-11 20:38:12 <SoobNauce> :/ I got a different error on ubuntu with the netbook, related to unclean shutdown
1823 2011-04-11 20:38:14 <SoobNauce> that one was worse
1824 2011-04-11 20:38:18 <SoobNauce> bitcoin wouldn't even start up
1825 2011-04-11 20:38:34 lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1826 2011-04-11 20:39:43 <SoobNauce> New question, in which file or collection of files is the bitcoin chain stored?
1827 2011-04-11 20:40:01 <phantomcircuit> SoobNauce, on windows? i have no clue
1828 2011-04-11 20:40:10 <SoobNauce> Then give me an answer that refers to linux
1829 2011-04-11 20:40:26 <SoobNauce> and assume for the sake of simplicity that we're already in /bitcoin/
1830 2011-04-11 20:40:31 <SoobNauce> or /.bitcoin/ if you really want
1831 2011-04-11 20:42:12 <SoobNauce> If you don't know I can delete my entire %APPDATA%/bitcoin/ folder and see if that fixes it
1832 2011-04-11 20:43:24 <luke-jr> back up wallet.dat!
1833 2011-04-11 20:43:29 <SoobNauce> I did
1834 2011-04-11 20:43:59 <SoobNauce> But... if I delete /bitcoin/ will I get a new wallet.dat with a new keypair?
1835 2011-04-11 20:44:04 <SoobNauce> I don't want keys to go to waste
1836 2011-04-11 20:44:32 eao has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1837 2011-04-11 20:45:20 <SoobNauce> What a highly active channel. My question was answered quickly and without incident, and I left feeling satisfied with the quality of service of this wonderful software project.
1838 2011-04-11 20:45:43 <SoobNauce> These people clearly have expertise I do not, and understand the ins and outs of the program particularly well.
1839 2011-04-11 20:45:44 <phantomcircuit> haha was that sarcasm?
1840 2011-04-11 20:45:47 SoobNauce has quit (Quit: Said the liar.)
1841 2011-04-11 20:45:51 <jgarzik> slush: for which bitcoind patch do you await review?
1842 2011-04-11 20:46:03 <phantomcircuit> SoobNauce, find wallet.dat, back it up, delete the bitcoin application data folder
1843 2011-04-11 20:46:13 <phantomcircuit> or rather delete everything in it except wallet.dat
1844 2011-04-11 20:46:21 <phantomcircuit> then start bitcoin
1845 2011-04-11 20:47:10 drk_ghost has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1846 2011-04-11 20:47:20 <jgarzik> libmemcached: useful. libmemcached documentation: hopeless.
1847 2011-04-11 20:47:58 drk_ghost has joined
1848 2011-04-11 20:48:13 <slush> jgarzik: https://github.com/jgarzik/bitcoin/commit/4feff786546448e2c436956ad77b9081167e3124
1849 2011-04-11 20:48:14 <slush> :)
1850 2011-04-11 20:49:19 <jgarzik> slush: you should watch official bitcoin.git more often -- a better version of that patch is officially upstream
1851 2011-04-11 20:49:23 <jgarzik> :)
1852 2011-04-11 20:49:39 <slush> oh, great
1853 2011-04-11 20:50:41 <krytzz> do you still update the sourceforge svn repo?
1854 2011-04-11 20:51:28 <slush> jgarzik: this one? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/f5f1878ba104a5d6a32eeb20b341326dca6086a5
1855 2011-04-11 20:52:30 <jgarzik> slush: there are two commits with fixes, see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/master
1856 2011-04-11 20:52:49 fimp has joined
1857 2011-04-11 20:52:52 <jgarzik> slush: one from 4/4, one from 4/5
1858 2011-04-11 20:53:08 <slush> jgarzik: I'm looking into that, unfortunatelly I'm not so skilled with git(hub) yet
1859 2011-04-11 20:54:00 <jgarzik> slush: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/6f074b71bb4c21e0a3ce059a64be1e9383538413 and https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/f5f1878ba104a5d6a32eeb20b341326dca6086a5
1860 2011-04-11 20:54:16 <phantomcircuit> hey look at that i can parse scritps
1861 2011-04-11 20:54:18 <phantomcircuit> loverly
1862 2011-04-11 20:54:24 <phantomcircuit> that was easy actually
1863 2011-04-11 20:54:29 <phantomcircuit> just took some c++ hackery
1864 2011-04-11 20:54:41 <slush> oh, this one, great
1865 2011-04-11 20:55:23 <xelister> OlaRune: why you probed my version =)
1866 2011-04-11 20:56:36 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: separate that into a separate python module, and the community will shower love upon you
1867 2011-04-11 20:56:56 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, the parser is like 30 lines
1868 2011-04-11 20:57:45 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin-alt/blob/master/bitcoin/script.py
1869 2011-04-11 20:57:51 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: oh, I thought you were validating too
1870 2011-04-11 20:58:01 <phantomcircuit> not yet ;)
1871 2011-04-11 20:58:10 <peck> OlaRune: sr ;)
1872 2011-04-11 20:58:14 <phantomcircuit> im not sure how to handle the stack yet
1873 2011-04-11 20:58:53 <OlaRune> peck: :D
1874 2011-04-11 20:59:11 <OlaRune> xelister: we discussed irc clients
1875 2011-04-11 20:59:19 <OlaRune> and i have a script that gives channel statistics
1876 2011-04-11 20:59:22 <OlaRune> sorry :)
1877 2011-04-11 20:59:33 * xelister probes OlaRune's boobs
1878 2011-04-11 20:59:50 * xelister discusses mating habitats of humans with fellow antropologist
1879 2011-04-11 21:00:05 <OlaRune> \o/
1880 2011-04-11 21:00:11 <xelister> >_>
1881 2011-04-11 21:00:34 <CIA-89> bitcoin: phantomcircuit * r5a8169e4f7e0 bitcoin-alt/ (bitcoin.py bitcoin/script.py): nice ourself, also script parser http://tinyurl.com/4y8a36z
1882 2011-04-11 21:00:41 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rd83de64a8e6e spesmilo/settings.py: Add French (fr_CA) to settings http://tinyurl.com/3uwebss
1883 2011-04-11 21:00:41 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rf7df58a3d872 spesmilo/ (5 files in 2 dirs): add fr_CA to kalam and pylupdate4 http://tinyurl.com/3ktwc3f
1884 2011-04-11 21:00:45 <CIA-89> bitcoin: bitcoiner * ra0e95ca6fd47 spesmilo/i18n/fr_CA.ts: fr_CA translation, draft 1 http://tinyurl.com/443xwep
1885 2011-04-11 21:00:48 <CIA-89> bitcoin: bitcoiner * r31dd2d6b4566 spesmilo/i18n/fr_CA.ts: fr_CA translation adjustments http://tinyurl.com/44o88zg
1886 2011-04-11 21:06:58 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1887 2011-04-11 21:11:02 <robblesz> jgarzik: can you describe what blkmond is useful for?
1888 2011-04-11 21:12:19 * luke-jr wonders how difficult it would be to built a NSIS installed for Spesmilo that automatically can download/install Python and PySide if not found
1889 2011-04-11 21:13:11 <jgarzik> robblesz: monitoring the network for new blocks
1890 2011-04-11 21:14:56 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1891 2011-04-11 21:15:27 <robblesz> I see, does it offer anything for an instance of pushpoold with all HTTP-JSON clients?
1892 2011-04-11 21:16:00 <nanotube> luke-jr: dunno about automatically download bit... but certainly you can bundle it, and install it only if not already present.
1893 2011-04-11 21:16:24 <luke-jr> nanotube: I imagine Python and PySide are large downloads
1894 2011-04-11 21:18:24 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, amidoinitrite
1895 2011-04-11 21:18:32 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin-alt/blob/master/bitcoin/script.py
1896 2011-04-11 21:18:33 <phantomcircuit> ;)
1897 2011-04-11 21:19:25 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: IMO, script decompiling should be a separate module ;)
1898 2011-04-11 21:19:41 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, meh changing that is trivial
1899 2011-04-11 21:19:54 <luke-jr> âº
1900 2011-04-11 21:20:16 * jgarzik -> too busy fighting with memcached in C
1901 2011-04-11 21:20:27 <phantomcircuit> why are you fighting with memcached in c
1902 2011-04-11 21:24:13 <nanotube> luke-jr: probably. but as i'm not aware that nsis has 'download from web' facilities, i think you could just have two installers, one with python/pyside, one without.
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1906 2011-04-11 21:27:25 <CIA-89> bitcoin: phantomcircuit * ra7edcb631f69 bitcoin-alt/bitcoin/script.py: partially execute scripts (missing OP_CHECKSIG) http://tinyurl.com/6jfbbg4
1907 2011-04-11 21:29:20 Poopsie has joined
1908 2011-04-11 21:31:04 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: I suppose yur doin it rite
1909 2011-04-11 21:31:11 <jgarzik> robblesz: pushpoold long polling
1910 2011-04-11 21:31:21 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, actually i was doinitwrong
1911 2011-04-11 21:31:27 <phantomcircuit> equalverify only was equal
1912 2011-04-11 21:31:41 <phantomcircuit> and hash160 was actually hash256
1913 2011-04-11 21:31:55 <phantomcircuit> glad to know i have good code review :P
1914 2011-04-11 21:32:27 <CIA-89> bitcoin: phantomcircuit * r9ba6de7a1ea1 bitcoin-alt/bitcoin/script.py: fixed equalverify and hash160 http://tinyurl.com/5sbpccl
1915 2011-04-11 21:33:03 <luke-jr> nanotube: it doesâ¦
1916 2011-04-11 21:33:36 <robblesz> jgarzik: awesome thanks
1917 2011-04-11 21:33:52 <nanotube> luke-jr: oh ok. well then... in that case it should be possible :)
1918 2011-04-11 21:34:12 <luke-jr> I'm sure it's possible. I was wondering how *easy* ;)
1919 2011-04-11 21:34:16 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: heh
1920 2011-04-11 21:36:09 <phantomcircuit> i can honestly say i dont have a fucking clue what checksig is doing
1921 2011-04-11 21:36:12 <phantomcircuit> someone care to explain?
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1925 2011-04-11 21:38:31 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: IIRC the wiki explains well
1926 2011-04-11 21:38:42 bitcoiner is now known as sonihr
1927 2011-04-11 21:39:04 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, im reading the codez
1928 2011-04-11 21:39:08 <phantomcircuit> it scares me
1929 2011-04-11 21:39:16 <phantomcircuit> this is *not* well designed
1930 2011-04-11 21:39:19 <luke-jr> lol
1931 2011-04-11 21:39:51 <phantomcircuit> honestly
1932 2011-04-11 21:39:59 <phantomcircuit> proof of private key is a well solved problem
1933 2011-04-11 21:40:02 <phantomcircuit> it's easy as hell
1934 2011-04-11 21:40:09 sonihr is now known as Sonihr
1935 2011-04-11 21:42:26 lumos has joined
1936 2011-04-11 21:44:24 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2957.0 might shed light on OP_CHECKSIG
1937 2011-04-11 21:44:35 <lumos> genjix_alternate, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74cO9X4NMb4 <watch this
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1943 2011-04-11 21:50:35 Dongdong has joined
1944 2011-04-11 21:51:05 <EPiSKiNG> so I've got two 5970s in a box, with two monitors connected.. SDK 2.1 and 11.3 drivers installed, and when I try to start poclbm gui in windows 7 x64, the icon appears, but the gui doesn't start....
1945 2011-04-11 21:51:16 <EPiSKiNG> I tried with and without the Crossfire cable
1946 2011-04-11 21:51:32 <EPiSKiNG> but haven't touched the catalyst control center...
1947 2011-04-11 21:51:35 <EPiSKiNG> any ideas?\
1948 2011-04-11 21:51:35 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, what's the point of hashing the subscript like that?
1949 2011-04-11 21:51:44 KnuttyD has joined
1950 2011-04-11 21:51:57 <KnuttyD> Hey guys, quick question
1951 2011-04-11 21:52:21 Stellar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1952 2011-04-11 21:52:23 Mango-chan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1953 2011-04-11 21:52:28 <KnuttyD> Just wondering why the HD 6870 is slower than the 5870? I thought it was a generation later
1954 2011-04-11 21:53:26 <Diablo-D3> KnuttyD: its "not"
1955 2011-04-11 21:53:32 <xelister> KnuttyD: modern truck is still slower then year 2000 race car
1956 2011-04-11 21:53:32 <Diablo-D3> 6870 is not a replacement for a 5870
1957 2011-04-11 21:53:47 <grbgout> KnuttyD: the 6870 has fewer stream processors.
1958 2011-04-11 21:53:50 <grbgout> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison#AMD
1959 2011-04-11 21:54:08 <Diablo-D3> 6870 costs less than a 5870, it a smaller die size, it uses less watts, it outputs less heat, and its almost identical on 3D performance
1960 2011-04-11 21:54:36 <Diablo-D3> its not an upgrade, its only a replacement
1961 2011-04-11 21:54:42 <Diablo-D3> KnuttyD: see, AMD bumped their model numbers up
1962 2011-04-11 21:54:52 <Diablo-D3> 68xx is the new 57xx/47xx.
1963 2011-04-11 21:55:04 <phantomcircuit> so
1964 2011-04-11 21:55:14 <phantomcircuit> why the hell is the script used for checksig
1965 2011-04-11 21:55:44 <Diablo-D3> EPiSKiNG: hey, the crossfire cable doesnt control crossfire.
1966 2011-04-11 21:56:23 <Diablo-D3> EPiSKiNG: the only way to mine on >1 gpu and use all gpus fully is to disable crossfire, and thats not recommended on windows.
1967 2011-04-11 21:57:10 <gjs278> EPiSKiNG you should probably try turning off cross fire in ccc, it may have turned it on
1968 2011-04-11 21:57:51 <Diablo-D3> EPiSKiNG: also, 5970s have an internal crossfire bridge between the chips, obviously you cant remove that.
1969 2011-04-11 21:58:00 <Diablo-D3> EPiSKiNG: AMD has never needed the crossfire bridge.
1970 2011-04-11 21:58:05 <Diablo-D3> even on single gpu cards
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1975 2011-04-11 22:00:11 <phantomcircuit> i would just like to say that the operation of checksig is fucking retarded
1976 2011-04-11 22:00:13 <phantomcircuit> thank you
1977 2011-04-11 22:01:59 <xelister> phantomcircuit: whats checksig
1978 2011-04-11 22:02:02 <KnuttyD> Huh.
1979 2011-04-11 22:02:24 <CIA-89> bitcoin: phantomcircuit * r5b02f61e5b19 bitcoin-alt/bitcoin/script.py: pop pubkey http://tinyurl.com/3dkzhbx
1980 2011-04-11 22:02:32 ToxicOverride_ has joined
1981 2011-04-11 22:02:39 <phantomcircuit> xelister, transaction scripting stuff
1982 2011-04-11 22:03:31 <ToxicOverride_> How do i figure out where i sent my bitcoins? I have an address. 12AyWhRBDXewPpd1Q2YvEs8VJeRNfn46qp
1983 2011-04-11 22:03:47 <ToxicOverride_> I sent them to a "Bitcoin Bank" awhile back
1984 2011-04-11 22:03:57 <ToxicOverride_> november of last year
1985 2011-04-11 22:03:57 <phantomcircuit> http://blockexplorer.com
1986 2011-04-11 22:04:06 ToxicOverride has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1987 2011-04-11 22:04:26 <ToxicOverride_> that dosent tell me the site i sent them to though. Im trying to figure out the name
1988 2011-04-11 22:04:44 <gavinandresen> mybitcoin? mtgox? vekja?
1989 2011-04-11 22:04:51 Strom has joined
1990 2011-04-11 22:05:16 <ToxicOverride_> The Bitcoin wiki used to have to but no longer
1991 2011-04-11 22:05:35 <KnuttyD> Great thing about Bitcoin is its nice an anonomoose.
1992 2011-04-11 22:05:47 <KnuttyD> So good luck tracking down a bitcoin address.
1993 2011-04-11 22:06:26 <phantomcircuit> ToxicOverride_, looking at the transactions it's pretty clear your btc is gone unless you remember where you sent it
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1996 2011-04-11 22:10:09 <xelister> phantomcircuit: ah, indeed
1997 2011-04-11 22:10:53 <phantomcircuit> well
1998 2011-04-11 22:11:12 <phantomcircuit> im bored with this for now
1999 2011-04-11 22:11:28 <phantomcircuit> unless someone send me some btc *cough* im not going to be finishing the scripting this week
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2002 2011-04-11 22:14:25 <KnuttyD> phantom: what was that?
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2024 2011-04-11 23:01:57 <EPiSKiNG> guiminer won't start unless i set Crossfire on in CCC
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2031 2011-04-11 23:28:53 <KnuttyD> This is cool, 50$ off HD 5830
2032 2011-04-11 23:28:53 <KnuttyD> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102878&nm_mc=EMC-GD04112011&cm_mmc=EMC-GD04112011-_-index-_-Item-_-14-102-878
2033 2011-04-11 23:29:05 <KnuttyD> What do you think?
2034 2011-04-11 23:30:48 <luke-jr> still too much
2035 2011-04-11 23:31:26 <KnuttyD> cost wise?
2036 2011-04-11 23:34:25 <phantomcircuit> was that an actual question
2037 2011-04-11 23:37:18 <KnuttyD> I thought luke was saying the card itself still cost too much. 50$ seems pretty good
2038 2011-04-11 23:37:36 glassresistor has joined
2039 2011-04-11 23:38:14 <luke-jr> KnuttyD: I got my 5850 for $161
2040 2011-04-11 23:38:24 <luke-jr> so it's not really $50 off
2041 2011-04-11 23:38:55 <KnuttyD> used?
2042 2011-04-11 23:39:22 <KnuttyD> I'll just need to browse ebay and whatnot
2043 2011-04-11 23:39:43 <JFK911> used 5870 $140 here
2044 2011-04-11 23:39:58 <JFK911> pre noob flood
2045 2011-04-11 23:40:04 * JFK911 last of the old noobs
2046 2011-04-11 23:40:34 <KnuttyD> haha need to lurk moar
2047 2011-04-11 23:42:54 <forrestv> is there any builtin way to convert from a base-256 string to an int?
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2050 2011-04-11 23:43:38 <KnuttyD> forrestv: c, c++, python, what?
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2056 2011-04-11 23:45:32 <forrestv> KnuttyD, oh ... wrong channel! but python! :p
2057 2011-04-11 23:45:51 <KnuttyD> Not sure bout python, maybe a function in numpy
2058 2011-04-11 23:46:08 <KnuttyD> Its not built in, but its an awesome lib
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2064 2011-04-11 23:51:51 <phantomcircuit> forrestv, base-256?
2065 2011-04-11 23:51:52 <phantomcircuit> wat
2066 2011-04-11 23:52:53 <forrestv> phantomcircuit, just a string holding the raw binaryish representation
2067 2011-04-11 23:53:02 <forrestv> '\x00' -> 0,
2068 2011-04-11 23:53:09 <forrestv> '\x01' -> 1
2069 2011-04-11 23:53:59 <phantomcircuit> yes but big or little endian
2070 2011-04-11 23:54:05 <phantomcircuit> base256 is meaningless
2071 2011-04-11 23:54:58 <JFK911> cant you just fill an int with the "base256"
2072 2011-04-11 23:55:24 <forrestv> normal ordering
2073 2011-04-11 23:55:49 <forrestv> more significant on the left, like any string numerical representation
2074 2011-04-11 23:56:01 <forrestv> q:
2075 2011-04-11 23:56:05 <JFK911> well
2076 2011-04-11 23:56:09 <phantomcircuit> forrestv, so bigendian
2077 2011-04-11 23:56:11 <JFK911> more significant is always on the "left"
2078 2011-04-11 23:56:15 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, no
2079 2011-04-11 23:56:23 <forrestv> yes
2080 2011-04-11 23:56:27 <JFK911> but if you are using the other endian you will usually think of your memory as being backwards
2081 2011-04-11 23:57:07 <phantomcircuit> little endian is faster
2082 2011-04-11 23:57:10 <phantomcircuit> i forget why
2083 2011-04-11 23:57:22 <JFK911> instead of dumping address 00 01 02 03 you read them as a word 03 02 01 00
2084 2011-04-11 23:57:50 <phantomcircuit> no i meant little endian at a hardware level is faster
2085 2011-04-11 23:57:50 <luke-jr> forrestv: sum(ord(a[c]) << 8*c for c in xrange(32))
2086 2011-04-11 23:57:54 <phantomcircuit> not just the conversion
2087 2011-04-11 23:58:00 <JFK911> it depends on the hardware i think
2088 2011-04-11 23:58:10 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, no it doesn't that's what im saying
2089 2011-04-11 23:58:20 <phantomcircuit> there's a real fundamental reason to choose little endian for hardware
2090 2011-04-11 23:58:25 <phantomcircuit> i forget what it is though
2091 2011-04-11 23:58:38 <JFK911> well
2092 2011-04-11 23:58:40 <luke-jr> or: sum(ord(a[c]) << 8*c for c in xrange(31, -1, -1))
2093 2011-04-11 23:58:43 <JFK911> intel's the only one who chose this
2094 2011-04-11 23:58:44 <luke-jr> err
2095 2011-04-11 23:58:49 <luke-jr> that won't work differently
2096 2011-04-11 23:58:53 <KnuttyD> Is there any reason why the ATI/AMD graphics cards are faster in general than the nVidia cards?
2097 2011-04-11 23:59:07 <luke-jr> or: sum(ord(a[c]) << 8*(31 - c) for c in xrange(32))
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2099 2011-04-11 23:59:34 <JFK911> if your alu and memory controllers are set to work in motorola endian there is going to be latency dealing with intel endian data
2100 2011-04-11 23:59:34 <forrestv> phantomcircuit, maybe because addition can be done as the number is read, instead of having to buffer it?
2101 2011-04-11 23:59:46 <forrestv> (carry propagation order)
2102 2011-04-11 23:59:57 <forrestv> i'm sure that applies to other operations too
2103 2011-04-11 23:59:57 <phantomcircuit> forrestv, something like that