1 2011-04-13 00:00:21 <BurtyB> [Tycho] yup :)
2 2011-04-13 00:02:12 Diablo-D3 has joined
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7 2011-04-13 00:07:09 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
8 2011-04-13 00:07:27 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r36c55b92dafa intersango/view_request.php: query uses ANSI form instead. http://tinyurl.com/3f5xs9m
9 2011-04-13 00:13:40 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
10 2011-04-13 00:16:24 <jgarzik> luke-jr: correct
11 2011-04-13 00:16:54 darkskiez has joined
12 2011-04-13 00:20:33 Guest3223 has joined
13 2011-04-13 00:20:39 Dark_Ghost has joined
14 2011-04-13 00:21:59 redengin has joined
15 2011-04-13 00:25:46 Lachesis has joined
16 2011-04-13 00:27:51 Donald_ has joined
17 2011-04-13 00:29:31 <genjix> Donald_: ddsdsf
18 2011-04-13 00:33:00 <gjs278> I've found 2 blocks for deepbit
19 2011-04-13 00:33:07 <gjs278> but I've only made 70 coins on them :(
20 2011-04-13 00:34:01 <lfm> that sort of thing should be true for half the members of the pools
21 2011-04-13 00:35:02 <gjs278> whenever I find the block, my poclbm should load up a giant CONGRADULATIONS.wav and start playing party music for a few seconds
22 2011-04-13 00:35:33 <lfm> you sure it didn't while you wernt looking?
23 2011-04-13 00:35:48 <gjs278> I probably missed it
24 2011-04-13 00:35:56 <gjs278> need to turn my volume up while sleeping
25 2011-04-13 00:36:26 <gjs278> what the hell is this upnp crap in bitcion
26 2011-04-13 00:36:52 <gjs278> net.cpp:10:36: error: miniupnpc/upnpcommands.h: No such file or directory
27 2011-04-13 00:37:00 <lfm> thats so it can automagiclly receive connections behind NAT routers
28 2011-04-13 00:37:27 <gjs278> lol
29 2011-04-13 00:37:38 <gjs278> I'm already forwarded, it will have no effect right
30 2011-04-13 00:37:40 <lfm> you need to install miniupnpc i spoze
31 2011-04-13 00:37:56 <lfm> ya shouldnt bother you at runtime
32 2011-04-13 00:38:20 <gjs278> mini is installed... let's see now
33 2011-04-13 00:38:36 <lfm> you need to install miniupnpc-dev i spoze
34 2011-04-13 00:38:41 <gjs278> ok cool, at least it wasn't that bad of a dep
35 2011-04-13 00:39:55 <gjs278> cannot find -lminiupnpc dahhh
36 2011-04-13 00:40:46 <gjs278> the dir wasn't added
37 2011-04-13 00:40:55 <gjs278> in the makefile
38 2011-04-13 00:41:09 <gjs278> and it decided to put it in /usr/include/miniupnpc
39 2011-04-13 00:41:18 <lfm> huh, not in /usr/lib?
40 2011-04-13 00:41:28 <lfm> or /usr/local/lib
41 2011-04-13 00:41:51 <gjs278> I see the .so in /usr/lib
42 2011-04-13 00:42:02 <lfm> run ldconfig then
43 2011-04-13 00:43:03 curiositysquared has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
44 2011-04-13 00:43:42 <gjs278> no help.. I can see my .h and I included the dir its in in the line
45 2011-04-13 00:43:51 AAA_awright_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
46 2011-04-13 00:44:08 <lfm> its not the .h file, its the lib
47 2011-04-13 00:44:09 AAA_awright has joined
48 2011-04-13 00:44:22 <gjs278> well I can see the .so too
49 2011-04-13 00:44:28 <gjs278> thats in /usr/lib like it should
50 2011-04-13 00:45:02 andrew12 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
51 2011-04-13 00:45:17 <gjs278> libminiupnpc.so
52 2011-04-13 00:45:23 <gjs278> and .5 symlinked to that
53 2011-04-13 00:48:31 andrew12 has joined
54 2011-04-13 00:49:25 <Guest3223> Anyone know if coincard is going to add funds soon? Any insiders here?
55 2011-04-13 00:49:36 <phantomcircuit_> fucking windows
56 2011-04-13 00:49:45 <phantomcircuit_> HURRR NOT GENUINE
57 2011-04-13 00:49:59 <phantomcircuit_> facepalm
58 2011-04-13 00:50:24 <lfm> whats HURRR?
59 2011-04-13 00:51:53 <gjs278> a noise a retarded person makes
60 2011-04-13 00:51:59 ForceMajeure has quit ()
61 2011-04-13 00:52:15 <gjs278> windows genuine is the funniest thing to break
62 2011-04-13 00:52:33 <OlaRune> http://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/6958641/hurr-durr-e-mc2.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=Hurr-Durr-Horse
63 2011-04-13 00:52:36 <OlaRune> that's hurr
64 2011-04-13 00:52:43 <lfm> a retarded person trying to install invlid copy of windows?
65 2011-04-13 00:53:45 <phantomcircuit_> lfm, please say HURRR outloud
66 2011-04-13 00:54:54 <lfm> phantomcircuit_: sorta sounds like "her"?
67 2011-04-13 00:56:04 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
68 2011-04-13 00:57:46 <phantomcircuit_> lfm, imagine someone with down syndrome saying it
69 2011-04-13 00:57:49 <phantomcircuit_> there you go
70 2011-04-13 00:59:14 <lfm> phantomcircuit_: so windows gives you down syndrome now?
71 2011-04-13 00:59:16 <Lycurgus> making fun of the retarded is not nice but it is stupid and making fun of the stupid is better
72 2011-04-13 01:00:14 <lfm> but making fun of windows is our official sport here
73 2011-04-13 01:00:30 <Lycurgus> i c
74 2011-04-13 01:00:35 <phantomcircuit_> lfm, no windows has down syndrome
75 2011-04-13 01:01:57 <lfm> ya, we appologize to any people here who really have real down syndrome, we dont mean you're as stupid as windows
76 2011-04-13 01:02:59 <Lycurgus> nobody here would have it but they might have a loved one that did
77 2011-04-13 01:03:18 <lfm> ok sorry to those people too
78 2011-04-13 01:03:21 ForceMajeure has joined
79 2011-04-13 01:03:56 <Lycurgus> better apologize to Bo, the presidential dog too.
80 2011-04-13 01:05:57 Dark_Ghost has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
81 2011-04-13 01:06:29 <luke-jr> if bitcoind shows an address as 'receive' in listtransactions, is it certain that I can spend anything that address has?
82 2011-04-13 01:06:36 <luke-jr> eg, that I have the private key for it
83 2011-04-13 01:07:40 Dark_Ghost has joined
84 2011-04-13 01:13:00 <luke-jr> or, is AddKey(k) enough to store it properly
85 2011-04-13 01:14:02 Dark_Ghost has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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88 2011-04-13 01:17:42 <necrodearia> It would be interesting to get poll of ages of bitcoin users.
89 2011-04-13 01:19:09 <luke-jr> 26
90 2011-04-13 01:19:54 <Guest3223> 38
91 2011-04-13 01:20:01 <tcatm> luke-jr: tonal or dec?
92 2011-04-13 01:20:16 <luke-jr> tcatm: dec
93 2011-04-13 01:20:27 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
94 2011-04-13 01:20:32 <luke-jr> 19 tonal
95 2011-04-13 01:20:45 <Lycurgus> what is 'dec', gregorian?
96 2011-04-13 01:20:51 <tcatm> decimal
97 2011-04-13 01:21:25 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: the Tonal calendar uses the same length year
98 2011-04-13 01:21:59 <luke-jr> tcatm: want a vanity bitcoin address by any chance? ;)
99 2011-04-13 01:21:59 <Lycurgus> it's a 12 tone calendar?
100 2011-04-13 01:22:11 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: tonal is (mostly) unrelated to tones
101 2011-04-13 01:22:19 <tcatm> luke-jr: what's a vanity bitcoin address?
102 2011-04-13 01:22:26 <luke-jr> tcatm: a bitcoin address ending in a word âº
103 2011-04-13 01:23:41 <tcatm> no need...
104 2011-04-13 01:23:56 <tcatm> or would I generate it on my own hardware?
105 2011-04-13 01:24:05 <phantomcircuit_> http://www.google.com/finance?q=TYO:9501
106 2011-04-13 01:24:06 <phantomcircuit_> neat
107 2011-04-13 01:24:09 <luke-jr> well, I'm offering the code modifications to do it :p
108 2011-04-13 01:24:18 <tcatm> with GPU speedup?
109 2011-04-13 01:24:22 <luke-jr> no
110 2011-04-13 01:24:31 <luke-jr> I don't know how to code for GPU
111 2011-04-13 01:24:34 <phantomcircuit_> pretty obvious their liability was leaked
112 2011-04-13 01:24:40 <tcatm> I think gavin made such a patch once
113 2011-04-13 01:25:03 <Lycurgus> it's just POP luke-jr
114 2011-04-13 01:25:08 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: ?
115 2011-04-13 01:25:17 <luke-jr> tcatm: ah, so I reinvented the wheel XD
116 2011-04-13 01:25:21 <Lycurgus> plain ole programmin
117 2011-04-13 01:28:38 <Lycurgus> you wanna look at opencl
118 2011-04-13 01:29:04 <luke-jr> no, I don't :P
119 2011-04-13 01:29:17 <luke-jr> there is no Free OpenCL
120 2011-04-13 01:29:37 Orbixx has joined
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123 2011-04-13 01:30:04 <Lycurgus> wikipedia says the one on Apple's site is
124 2011-04-13 01:30:16 <luke-jr> it isn't, I'm sure.
125 2011-04-13 01:30:41 <Lycurgus> ah, it's just a FFT pkg
126 2011-04-13 01:30:48 <tcatm> use the subset of opencl that can be compiled as plain c
127 2011-04-13 01:32:22 gat3way has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
128 2011-04-13 01:33:30 <Lachesis> how do i deal with this?
129 2011-04-13 01:33:31 <Lachesis> Bitcoin: Cannot obtain a lock on data directory /home/eswanson/.bitcoin. Bitcoin is probably already running.
130 2011-04-13 01:33:44 <phantomcircuit_> Lachesis, uh bitcoin is already running?
131 2011-04-13 01:33:44 <luke-jr> Lachesis: bitcoind stop
132 2011-04-13 01:34:06 <Lycurgus> yeah, I guess the CUDA SDK is what I meant
133 2011-04-13 01:34:19 <luke-jr> CUDA is even more worthless
134 2011-04-13 01:34:44 <phantomcircuit_> the TEPCO stock graph is pretty neat
135 2011-04-13 01:34:59 <phantomcircuit_> you can see where people had buy orders significantly above market rate
136 2011-04-13 01:35:12 <Lycurgus> why is that luke-jr, because it is Nividia centric?
137 2011-04-13 01:35:18 <luke-jr> yep
138 2011-04-13 01:35:32 <Lycurgus> yeah, well that's a dominant GPU
139 2011-04-13 01:35:54 <Lycurgus> and it apparently generalizes all their shit
140 2011-04-13 01:36:09 <Lycurgus> generalizes/unifies
141 2011-04-13 01:36:18 Orbixx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
142 2011-04-13 01:36:56 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: a dominant non-free GPU that performs poorly at computing
143 2011-04-13 01:38:20 da2ce7 has joined
144 2011-04-13 01:38:48 <Lycurgus> aren't all GPUs non-free?
145 2011-04-13 01:39:00 <luke-jr> no
146 2011-04-13 01:39:05 <Lachesis> bitcoind is _not_ running
147 2011-04-13 01:39:08 <Lachesis> that's why i mentioned it
148 2011-04-13 01:39:13 <Lachesis> also, yes, GPUs cost money :)
149 2011-04-13 01:39:28 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: Radeons run with free software
150 2011-04-13 01:39:38 <luke-jr> Intel GPUs run with free software and free firmware
151 2011-04-13 01:39:42 <Lycurgus> and CUDA isn't free?
152 2011-04-13 01:39:48 Orbixx has joined
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155 2011-04-13 01:39:48 <luke-jr> not remotely
156 2011-04-13 01:39:59 <luke-jr> nvidia only recently started doing *something* with free software
157 2011-04-13 01:41:24 <Lycurgus> the toolkit is apparently free, what else do you need?
158 2011-04-13 01:41:32 <luke-jr> â¦
159 2011-04-13 01:41:36 <luke-jr> I highly doubt it
160 2011-04-13 01:41:43 <luke-jr> are you sure you aren't confusing free with gratis?
161 2011-04-13 01:42:01 <luke-jr> as for what else: the drivers
162 2011-04-13 01:42:01 <Lycurgus> http://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-toolkit-32-downloads
163 2011-04-13 01:42:36 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: I don't see any links to source code there
164 2011-04-13 01:42:54 <luke-jr> http://developer.download.nvidia.com/compute/cuda/3_2_prod/toolkit/docs/EULA.txt is very much non-free
165 2011-04-13 01:43:33 <luke-jr> "No Reverse Engineering. Licensee may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the SOFTWARE, nor attempt in any other manner to obtain the source code."
166 2011-04-13 01:43:37 <luke-jr> how is that remotely free?
167 2011-04-13 01:43:50 <Lycurgus> so it's only free for you if you can access every element of their source code and redistribute it?
168 2011-04-13 01:43:57 <luke-jr> yes
169 2011-04-13 01:44:01 <luke-jr> that's what free means
170 2011-04-13 01:44:15 <Lycurgus> lol-meh
171 2011-04-13 01:44:38 Cusipzzz has joined
172 2011-04-13 01:45:47 <luke-jr> who wants to be the first to donate to #bitcoin-watch with its new vanity address? 1Lg7peCQCBRBsmZJ5MoXikuQ25oZ4voBit
173 2011-04-13 01:45:48 <luke-jr> :P
174 2011-04-13 01:47:47 <Lachesis> ;;rate sgornick 1
175 2011-04-13 01:47:47 <gribble> Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user sgornick has been recorded.
176 2011-04-13 01:47:57 <Lachesis> ;;rated sgornick
177 2011-04-13 01:47:57 <gribble> You rated user sgornick on Tue Apr 12 18:44:53 2011, giving him a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: None.
178 2011-04-13 01:48:05 <luke-jr> Lachesis: wrong channel? :P
179 2011-04-13 01:48:11 <Lachesis> whoops
180 2011-04-13 01:48:12 <Lachesis> yep sry
181 2011-04-13 01:55:04 <Lycurgus> so there's no way from the bc system itself to tell how many distinct users there are?
182 2011-04-13 01:55:37 <luke-jr> maybe online users
183 2011-04-13 01:56:49 Omni is now known as AFK!~hopper@pdpc/supporter/professional/omnifarious|Omnifarious
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188 2011-04-13 02:03:11 <sgornick> Lycurgus: Pretty safe to say more than 7,609 K, based on this: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=https://smsz.net/btcStats/bitcoin.kml and https://smsz.net/btcStats/accepting
189 2011-04-13 02:03:46 phantomcircuit has joined
190 2011-04-13 02:04:06 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPgBooaydtI
191 2011-04-13 02:04:07 Orbixx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
192 2011-04-13 02:06:36 <luke-jr> tcatm: I wonder how practical it would be to constantly build a "rainbow table" of addresses 24/7, and use it to find vanity addresses quickly (for sale)
193 2011-04-13 02:07:12 <tcatm> luke-jr: mhm lots of trust involved
194 2011-04-13 02:07:25 <luke-jr> tcatm: true
195 2011-04-13 02:08:24 <Lycurgus> sgornick, seems like the distinct criteria would be failing there a lot
196 2011-04-13 02:08:24 <phantomcircuit_> luke-jr, what?
197 2011-04-13 02:08:32 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit_: ?
198 2011-04-13 02:08:41 <phantomcircuit_> luke-jr, couldn't you do that simply by keeping track of which addresses see more than 1 transaction?
199 2011-04-13 02:08:55 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit_: huh?
200 2011-04-13 02:09:08 <phantomcircuit_> oh nvm
201 2011-04-13 02:09:12 <phantomcircuit_> i see what you're saying
202 2011-04-13 02:09:13 <phantomcircuit_> hmm
203 2011-04-13 02:09:16 <phantomcircuit_> an interesting though
204 2011-04-13 02:09:20 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit_: I'm talking about saving up lots of ECDSA keys indexed by a searchable address, so you can sell "an address with your name in it"
205 2011-04-13 02:09:30 <phantomcircuit_> yeah
206 2011-04-13 02:10:05 <luke-jr> I suppose I could finish my quantum computer emulator to just find a matching address fast⦠<.<
207 2011-04-13 02:10:16 <phantomcircuit_> lol
208 2011-04-13 02:10:16 Orbixx has joined
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210 2011-04-13 02:10:16 Orbixx has joined
211 2011-04-13 02:10:33 <luke-jr> (srsly, that was getting too complex and I have no practical use for it, so I quit :P)
212 2011-04-13 02:12:36 <sgornick> Lycurgus: Those ip's are not unique? or do you mean a single user might be running more than one node?
213 2011-04-13 02:12:59 <Lycurgus> the latter
214 2011-04-13 02:13:17 <Lycurgus> or both even
215 2011-04-13 02:13:51 <sgornick> i'ld bet the number who use an ewallet and aren't in the list outnumber by an order of magnitude those who have multiple nodes.
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219 2011-04-13 02:16:35 <Lycurgus> but the map didn't have 7K points
220 2011-04-13 02:17:00 <Lachesis> ;;lastblock
221 2011-04-13 02:17:00 <gribble> Error: "lastblock" is not a valid command.
222 2011-04-13 02:19:17 <sgornick> Lycurgus: It doesn't? The kml has about 1300+ using the style that displays green, and 4300+ using the style that displays red.
223 2011-04-13 02:22:25 <phantomcircuit_> sgornick, there's like 4k nodes, of which about 1k are connectable
224 2011-04-13 02:22:32 <Kiba> I think the map of bitcoin nodes
225 2011-04-13 02:22:42 <Kiba> is highly correlated to places of high connectivity
226 2011-04-13 02:23:07 <Lycurgus> kml
227 2011-04-13 02:23:10 <Kiba> bitcoin is pretty much everywhere the internet is
228 2011-04-13 02:23:48 <Kiba> but our weakness is that we don't have a decentralized system for transfering money across nation states
229 2011-04-13 02:24:19 <Lycurgus> i'm more or less brand new
230 2011-04-13 02:24:34 <Lycurgus> but the weakness seems to me to be at the value binding point
231 2011-04-13 02:24:54 <Lycurgus> about which I'm still less than clear
232 2011-04-13 02:25:01 <sgornick> phantomcircuit: https://smsz.net/btcStats/accepting {"up":"1624","down":"5894","unknown":"1","total_known":7518,"total":7519," so you are saying those are not accurate?
233 2011-04-13 02:25:12 Strom- has joined
234 2011-04-13 02:26:14 <Lycurgus> Kiba, I thought bc was that system
235 2011-04-13 02:26:18 <Kiba> the exchanges are pretty much centralized
236 2011-04-13 02:26:18 <Kiba> with the exception of bitcoin-otc
237 2011-04-13 02:26:33 <Kiba> bitcoin itself is distributed
238 2011-04-13 02:26:40 <Kiba> very difficult to take down
239 2011-04-13 02:27:15 DoomDumas has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
240 2011-04-13 02:27:44 <Lycurgus> national currencies obtain their real value in the economies where they are accepted as the money commodity
241 2011-04-13 02:28:35 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
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243 2011-04-13 02:29:09 <Kiba> if the bitcoin economy is concentracted in one location, you could have a real local economy
244 2011-04-13 02:29:13 Strom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
245 2011-04-13 02:31:34 <Lycurgus> in the world system the value binding occurs in the referred to market transactions and in the fractional reserve lending at the heart of capitalist money creation
246 2011-04-13 02:32:03 <Lycurgus> but primarily and fundamentally the former
247 2011-04-13 02:33:06 <Lycurgus> which can only lag the latter by so much
248 2011-04-13 02:33:40 <jrabbit> Lycurgus: that went over my head was it econ speak
249 2011-04-13 02:34:36 antivigilante has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
250 2011-04-13 02:35:21 antivigilante has joined
251 2011-04-13 02:36:11 <Lycurgus> well this (bitcoin) is about economics
252 2011-04-13 02:36:38 tenach has quit (Quit: headin' home.)
253 2011-04-13 02:36:45 <jrabbit> "economics" and jargon used to keep economicists paid are two differing things.
254 2011-04-13 02:36:48 DoomDumas has joined
255 2011-04-13 02:38:44 <Lycurgus> whatever
256 2011-04-13 02:39:24 sethsethseth_ has joined
257 2011-04-13 02:39:52 <Kiba> I don't think fractional reserve lending lies at the heart of capitalist money creation
258 2011-04-13 02:39:57 <Kiba> that sound like gibberish
259 2011-04-13 02:40:13 <Lycurgus> it isn't
260 2011-04-13 02:40:29 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
261 2011-04-13 02:40:44 <Kiba> sounds like capitalists rely on fractional reserve banking
262 2011-04-13 02:41:00 <phantomcircuit_> Lycurgus, fractional reserve banking is nothing more than a confidence game
263 2011-04-13 02:41:20 <Lycurgus> well it's lending, usury, whatever you want to call it
264 2011-04-13 02:41:31 <Kiba> lending itself is not bad
265 2011-04-13 02:41:37 <Lycurgus> no it isn't
266 2011-04-13 02:41:49 <Lycurgus> it's just a service
267 2011-04-13 02:41:59 <Lycurgus> in principle it's neutral
268 2011-04-13 02:42:21 <Kiba> anyway
269 2011-04-13 02:43:20 <phantomcircuit_> Lycurgus, it's neither lending nor usury
270 2011-04-13 02:43:24 <Lycurgus> but the fundamental source of value is that people accept the money commodity as a generalization of value in exchange for things of real value
271 2011-04-13 02:43:48 <Lycurgus> such as their labor power
272 2011-04-13 02:44:20 <phantomcircuit_> and they do so because....?
273 2011-04-13 02:44:21 <Lycurgus> phantomcircuit, lending is not lending?
274 2011-04-13 02:44:42 <phantomcircuit_> Lycurgus, it's not lending if you have nothing to lend
275 2011-04-13 02:45:16 phantomcircuit_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
276 2011-04-13 02:45:21 <Lycurgus> the money commodity is not nothing. It has no intrinsic use val ...
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278 2011-04-13 02:45:45 <Kiba> fractional reserve lending c an lead to instabilities
279 2011-04-13 02:45:50 <Lycurgus> the money commodity is not nothing. It has no intrinsic use value, but that's irrelevant as it comes to command every actual real value
280 2011-04-13 02:46:25 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
281 2011-04-13 02:46:31 <Kiba> but subsidizing fractional reserve lending can lead to worse bubbles
282 2011-04-13 02:47:09 <JFK911> how do i fractional reserve lend bitcoins
283 2011-04-13 02:48:50 <Lycurgus> just apply a contract structure for such a transaction to the existing mechanism
284 2011-04-13 02:49:10 <Kiba> the risk is that rumors will go around that your bank is insovlent
285 2011-04-13 02:49:15 <Kiba> which can lead to a bank run
286 2011-04-13 02:50:42 <Kiba> and there's no central bank you can run to
287 2011-04-13 02:50:48 phantomcircuit_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
288 2011-04-13 02:50:48 <Lycurgus> the essence of how the value in labor power, produced goods, etc. is bound to the money commodity in national economies is in the double entry accounting of that commodity performed in the real economies
289 2011-04-13 02:50:56 phantomcircuit has joined
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291 2011-04-13 02:52:20 <Lycurgus> bc or something like it could replace the fiat currencies of the nation states if there were a path for it to become the reference currency in such ledgers
292 2011-04-13 02:52:36 <nanotube> JFK911: see the ,,(bc,wiki myths) page on that. it's no different than fractional reserve of anything else.
293 2011-04-13 02:52:36 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths | Mar 25, 2011 ... Myths. From Bitcoin. Jump to: navigation, search ... See myth https://en.bitcoin .it/wiki/Myths#Bitcoin_is_backed_by_CPU_cycles ...
294 2011-04-13 02:52:53 <Kiba> had no idea what you talk about, Lycurgus
295 2011-04-13 02:54:09 purpleposeidon has joined
296 2011-04-13 02:54:38 <Lycurgus> and simply providing a zero or neglible transaction cost for exchange between said currencies is an excellent path to that result
297 2011-04-13 02:54:55 <Lycurgus> which apparently is the established strategy
298 2011-04-13 02:57:02 wolfspraul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
299 2011-04-13 02:57:08 wolfspra1l has joined
300 2011-04-13 02:57:40 <Kiba> it's not easy to exchange nation-state currences into dollars
301 2011-04-13 02:58:08 <Lycurgus> particular nation states aren't important
302 2011-04-13 02:58:38 <Kiba> if it were, than the difficulty of exchanging no longer become the chokepoint for adoption
303 2011-04-13 02:58:43 <jgarzik> There is nothing fundamentally wrong with fractional reserve. Almost every mutual fund out there could be considered fractional reserve (with the reserve being the 1% or so they keep on hand for redemptions). Fractional reserve just means you handed your money to someone, who is investing it.
304 2011-04-13 02:58:55 <jgarzik> Banks just need to come with a disclaimer "risky investment"
305 2011-04-13 02:59:13 <Lycurgus> what's important is that participants accept the money commodity as a store and measure of value
306 2011-04-13 03:01:36 <Lycurgus> once there are large numbers of users in different currency jurisdictions the transition can be precipitous
307 2011-04-13 03:02:36 <Lycurgus> i would expect that extant finance capital is already looking at this though with a view to coopting it
308 2011-04-13 03:04:26 sethsethseth_ has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
309 2011-04-13 03:06:03 <noagendamarket> why? they can just start a new chain
310 2011-04-13 03:06:09 <noagendamarket> and have bakcoins
311 2011-04-13 03:06:17 <noagendamarket> *bankcoins
312 2011-04-13 03:07:38 amiller has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
313 2011-04-13 03:08:12 Sonihr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
314 2011-04-13 03:08:16 amiller has joined
315 2011-04-13 03:09:11 <Lycurgus> noagendamarket, the whole bc system is a single chain?
316 2011-04-13 03:10:00 <luke-jr> yes
317 2011-04-13 03:11:52 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
318 2011-04-13 03:12:14 <noagendamarket> yes
319 2011-04-13 03:12:35 <noagendamarket> everyone in the network has a copy
320 2011-04-13 03:12:40 <noagendamarket> its a giant ledger
321 2011-04-13 03:12:54 <Lycurgus> so it's of the essence that there be a single system that no one owns
322 2011-04-13 03:13:04 <noagendamarket> yep
323 2011-04-13 03:13:23 <Lycurgus> hence no "bankcoins"
324 2011-04-13 03:13:26 <noagendamarket> well
325 2011-04-13 03:13:48 <noagendamarket> if they created a new genesis block and all the banks used it
326 2011-04-13 03:13:49 <Kiba> everyone owns their own copies
327 2011-04-13 03:13:52 <midnightmagic> it is almost certain that coopting it would either be denied, or would destroy the currency.
328 2011-04-13 03:14:07 <midnightmagic> banks won't use a deflationary currency.
329 2011-04-13 03:14:19 <noagendamarket> just saying
330 2011-04-13 03:14:33 <Kiba> maybe not traditional banks who are afraid to rock the boart
331 2011-04-13 03:14:36 <Kiba> s/boart/boat
332 2011-04-13 03:14:45 * underscor wants to rock a boart
333 2011-04-13 03:14:48 <Kiba> like I said, if I were goldman sach, I would invest a million dollars into bitcoin right now
334 2011-04-13 03:14:49 <midnightmagic> nothing to do with boats.
335 2011-04-13 03:14:57 <Lycurgus> the general phenom is cryptocurrency, there could be a proliferation of networks with objective flat exchange between them
336 2011-04-13 03:14:58 <midnightmagic> that would be a huge mistake.
337 2011-04-13 03:15:17 <Kiba> huge mistake?
338 2011-04-13 03:15:23 <midnightmagic> Lycurgus: that also wouldn't make much sense, because we all conceptually are quite aware of how hard it is to mine each one.
339 2011-04-13 03:15:30 <Kiba> as a profit-oriented CEO, I would
340 2011-04-13 03:15:36 <midnightmagic> Kiba: yeah, investing $1mil in it.
341 2011-04-13 03:16:09 <Kiba> well, it could reap me a trillion dollars in profit someday
342 2011-04-13 03:16:16 <midnightmagic> perhaps over time, but all at once? you'll crash it.
343 2011-04-13 03:16:34 <Lycurgus> i'm ignoring the details of the particular crypto setup and it's ancillary concepts such as "mining"
344 2011-04-13 03:16:47 <Lycurgus> *its
345 2011-04-13 03:17:20 <Kiba> I mean...I don't give a damn about controlling the people
346 2011-04-13 03:17:20 <midnightmagic> then what do you mean by "flat exchange"?
347 2011-04-13 03:17:23 <Kiba> I just want money!
348 2011-04-13 03:17:29 <Lycurgus> that's irrelevant, the real value comes from the real world just as in existing money
349 2011-04-13 03:17:41 <Lycurgus> s/existing/conventional general/
350 2011-04-13 03:18:10 <midnightmagic> Kiba: those are public companies. you can't just spend $1mil in a public company without divulging what you're doing. and if you are a private investor, then you bubble the currency rather than grow it (as happened recently) and your value is recoupable for years.
351 2011-04-13 03:18:32 <midnightmagic> is => isn't
352 2011-04-13 03:18:52 <Kiba> whatever how I can invest 1 million dollars
353 2011-04-13 03:19:03 <Kiba> without destroying the economy
354 2011-04-13 03:19:03 <sacarlson> I was hoping to try a test bitcoin that had a fixed number of coins from start to finish with no growth that would be shares of an entity, how would that be done?
355 2011-04-13 03:19:06 <midnightmagic> meanwhile, you could've put smaller investments into it over time and grown the currency as a currency, thus encouraging much more rapid growth, and made more.
356 2011-04-13 03:20:04 <midnightmagic> sacarlson: let us know when you build the code, i'll help you test it, unless testing it requires I pay you money, in which case I won't.
357 2011-04-13 03:20:12 <sacarlson> then the currency won't grow just the number of currency in this case would grow
358 2011-04-13 03:20:54 <sacarlson> midnightmagic: I have now compiled the code or just the bitcoind part of it, and I'm looking at it now
359 2011-04-13 03:21:17 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, that's basically how bitcoin works after 2015 or is it 2016?
360 2011-04-13 03:22:18 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: yes but I want this to be fixed from start to finish, why would you need to grow the currency in this case?
361 2011-04-13 03:22:55 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, what?
362 2011-04-13 03:22:59 <phantomcircuit> there isn't a finish
363 2011-04-13 03:23:06 <Lycurgus> Kiba, are you saying that placing a buy order for 1million$ at current BTC exchange rates would destroy bc?
364 2011-04-13 03:23:16 <midnightmagic> Kiba: you make a 25% mining farm which adds enough mining infrastructure over time to ensure you always stay at 25%; you build infrastructure capable of handling bitcoins, and you get it in the hands of merchants. you supply direct currency exchange markets so merchants aren't frightened away. you use your mined coins as secret backing and you don't tell anyone you're mining. this necessitates being a private company.
365 2011-04-13 03:24:24 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: well in this case there could be a finish, when someone or a group buys all or a mojority of all the coins then they can decide to desoulve or liquidate the entity
366 2011-04-13 03:24:27 <midnightmagic> Lycurgus: I'm saying it would hurt the BTC economy to disappear those coins and sit on $1mil. the biggest market (mtgox) doesn't do anywhere near those volumes, as far as I can tell.
367 2011-04-13 03:24:51 <[Noodles]> sacarlson: how would you distribute the fixed number from the start? who owns them at start?
368 2011-04-13 03:24:51 <Kiba> 40 K dollars on a good day..
369 2011-04-13 03:25:10 <midnightmagic> well we don't know what the dark pool stuff does.
370 2011-04-13 03:25:13 <[Noodles]> you own them all and everyopne that comes after you has to buy from you?
371 2011-04-13 03:25:17 <midnightmagic> who knows the limits there..
372 2011-04-13 03:25:40 <midnightmagic> [Noodles]: that doesn't make any sense, because miners still mine.
373 2011-04-13 03:25:56 <[Noodles]> huh?
374 2011-04-13 03:25:57 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: you would sell them for other coins or currency from the start
375 2011-04-13 03:26:11 <[Noodles]> miners will still have to mine when all 21m are in circulation
376 2011-04-13 03:26:21 <[Noodles]> so its not a matter of mining at all
377 2011-04-13 03:26:24 <luke-jr> buy buy buy
378 2011-04-13 03:26:30 <midnightmagic> ah, you're talking about distant future then.
379 2011-04-13 03:26:44 <[Noodles]> sacarlson: i got that, but who is "you"?
380 2011-04-13 03:26:52 <Lycurgus> yeah, you shouldn't have to "mine" to attach value from the real world to the currency
381 2011-04-13 03:26:54 <midnightmagic> [Noodles]: ah, you're not even talking to me are you. :)
382 2011-04-13 03:27:10 <midnightmagic> Lycurgus: that's not the purpose of mining.
383 2011-04-13 03:27:29 <midnightmagic> Mining is the backbone of the security of the currency.
384 2011-04-13 03:27:30 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: remind you it starts from something not nothing, someone invest in buying a thing say 1 once of gold and says that now sell parts of this 1 onunce of gold as parts in the form of gbitcoins
385 2011-04-13 03:27:46 <Lycurgus> but it's also necessary to attach value?
386 2011-04-13 03:27:53 <luke-jr> â¦
387 2011-04-13 03:28:00 <luke-jr> without mining, nobody can transfer coins
388 2011-04-13 03:28:13 <luke-jr> without significantly high mining, anyone can take over the network
389 2011-04-13 03:28:31 <Lycurgus> understood
390 2011-04-13 03:28:43 <sacarlson> midnightmagic: see that's what I didn't understand mining is the backbone of the security of the currency
391 2011-04-13 03:28:52 <Lycurgus> but that shouild be distinct from the function of general money
392 2011-04-13 03:29:04 <midnightmagic> how so?
393 2011-04-13 03:29:33 <midnightmagic> it's how the cryptography allows for the currency to begin with. it's intrinsically linked. one doesn't exist without the other.
394 2011-04-13 03:29:48 <luke-jr> if you can't spend it, it can't function as money
395 2011-04-13 03:29:53 <Lycurgus> with general money, it's of the essence that if I have of thing of arbitrary value, I can give a money price for it
396 2011-04-13 03:29:59 <luke-jr> if someone can spend it twice, it functions poorly
397 2011-04-13 03:30:02 <Lycurgus> that's why it's called the price system
398 2011-04-13 03:30:14 <Kiba> mining enable that "price system"
399 2011-04-13 03:30:17 <luke-jr> Lycurgus: only if you can transfer it to someone else
400 2011-04-13 03:30:25 <luke-jr> if you can't transfer ownership, you can't sell it
401 2011-04-13 03:30:30 <luke-jr> thus, no value
402 2011-04-13 03:30:31 <midnightmagic> Lycurgus: right, go on.
403 2011-04-13 03:30:53 <sacarlson> luke-jr I didn't relise that part, so my Idea is somewhat trashed then I think, otherwise how could you desolve a currency that is being mined?
404 2011-04-13 03:30:57 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
405 2011-04-13 03:30:59 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118090 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 853 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 5 hours, 49 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 91099.83582564
406 2011-04-13 03:31:13 <midnightmagic> geh, 91k.
407 2011-04-13 03:31:18 <Kiba> wowzer difficulty!
408 2011-04-13 03:31:43 <hozer> yeesh
409 2011-04-13 03:31:48 <hozer> when did that change?
410 2011-04-13 03:32:36 <midnightmagic> that's approaching mystery-miner rates..
411 2011-04-13 03:32:51 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,mtgox
412 2011-04-13 03:32:52 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":0.8999,"low":0.771,"vol":46732,"buy":0.8626,"sell":0.88,"last":0.88}}
413 2011-04-13 03:33:34 <Kiba> kissing 0.90..
414 2011-04-13 03:34:02 purpleposeidon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
415 2011-04-13 03:34:06 <Kiba> the market don wanna touch .90
416 2011-04-13 03:34:09 <Kiba> it's taboo
417 2011-04-13 03:34:46 <midnightmagic> it's the stopper people putting the chunky buy/sells in the open where people can see them.
418 2011-04-13 03:34:54 <Kiba> so we're at 700 GH/s
419 2011-04-13 03:36:27 <midnightmagic> 652 @ 91099.83582564
420 2011-04-13 03:36:47 <midnightmagic> that's not really that much computing power.
421 2011-04-13 03:38:02 <Kiba> well, it's a kinda a supercomputer I guess
422 2011-04-13 03:38:57 wolfspra1l has quit (Quit: leaving)
423 2011-04-13 03:39:07 <midnightmagic> kiba: it's about the equivalent of 1086x5970s..
424 2011-04-13 03:39:19 wolfspraul has joined
425 2011-04-13 03:39:57 <Kiba> that's a lot of 5970s though
426 2011-04-13 03:40:04 <midnightmagic> if 1100 people were all mining with one 5970, that's not very many people. say on average there are 4 per person. that's only 271. or, 8: 135. That's a small handful. :(
427 2011-04-13 03:40:58 <Kiba> we're a really small community
428 2011-04-13 03:41:07 <midnightmagic> that to me is fragility.
429 2011-04-13 03:41:07 <sacarlson> midnightmagic: well there are a total of 2900 people on the total network that I can see so what percent of those are mining?
430 2011-04-13 03:41:50 <midnightmagic> if there are on average 4 cards per miner, then that's 270 miners. total number of people in the network is almost irrelevant. but, 270/2900 = 9.3%
431 2011-04-13 03:41:51 toffoo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
432 2011-04-13 03:41:51 <Kiba> the bitcoin creature is compelling us to buy 5970s
433 2011-04-13 03:42:06 <Kiba> and compelling us to spread its memes
434 2011-04-13 03:42:09 toffoo has joined
435 2011-04-13 03:42:18 toffoo has quit (Client Quit)
436 2011-04-13 03:42:45 <midnightmagic> so, maybe 1 in 10 "nodes" is mining at 5970 rates, but that's not even accurate because not everyone mines with 5970s.
437 2011-04-13 03:43:06 <midnightmagic> there's not a lot of point in speculating about that.
438 2011-04-13 03:43:55 <Kiba> so
439 2011-04-13 03:43:58 <Kiba> the economy is small
440 2011-04-13 03:44:00 <Kiba> what else is new?
441 2011-04-13 03:44:08 toffoo has joined
442 2011-04-13 03:44:39 <sacarlson> seems the weakness I see in bitcoins is there is that it depends on a single irc chanel, it that server failed would bitcoins still function?
443 2011-04-13 03:44:47 <noagendamarket> yes
444 2011-04-13 03:45:18 <noagendamarket> the irc just lets it find nodes quicker
445 2011-04-13 03:45:18 <midnightmagic> it's pretty fragile. mtgox pricing isn't high enough to grow it fast enough. prices won't increase until more people use it. people won't use it until we convince them to. work harder at convincing people to use bitcoins in legal, reputable endeavours. try to convince people not to use it for shady idiotic gambling/money laundering schemes by scaring them about the damage it does to the currency as a whole.
446 2011-04-13 03:45:27 <midnightmagic> sacarlson: sure.
447 2011-04-13 03:45:59 <jgarzik> sacarlson: no, that's not a weakness
448 2011-04-13 03:46:09 <jgarzik> sacarlson: bitcoin has plenty of weaknesses, but IRC is not one of them
449 2011-04-13 03:46:23 <Kiba> I thought one gal was scared by heroin dealing
450 2011-04-13 03:46:29 <Kiba> turns out she thought it was very novel
451 2011-04-13 03:46:36 <Kiba> and I misintrepret what she said in the tweet
452 2011-04-13 03:46:44 <midnightmagic> or, better, create a better market than mtgox..
453 2011-04-13 03:47:06 <nanotube> noagendamarket: haha fwiw, i find the client actually gets connections faster when i run it with -noirc
454 2011-04-13 03:47:10 <midnightmagic> i mean right now, the graphing and markets in EVE:Online are better, and that's just some lame game.
455 2011-04-13 03:47:21 <nanotube> so s/find nodes quicker/find more nodes/ maybe :)
456 2011-04-13 03:47:37 aksoo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
457 2011-04-13 03:48:16 <Kiba> midnightmagic: well...at least we're growing
458 2011-04-13 03:48:19 <midnightmagic> not that i have a problem with mtgox, of course.. :)
459 2011-04-13 03:48:32 <Kiba> keep the momentum growing and we will get where we want to go
460 2011-04-13 03:48:34 <midnightmagic> just that i think it could be done better.
461 2011-04-13 03:48:48 <nanotube> midnightmagic: there's bitcoincharts.com too. and of course you should feel free to create your own :)
462 2011-04-13 03:48:49 <Kiba> how?
463 2011-04-13 03:49:07 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
464 2011-04-13 03:49:18 <Kiba> someone should start a EVE Online currency exchange for bitcoin :)
465 2011-04-13 03:49:35 <midnightmagic> Kiba: against CCP's tos
466 2011-04-13 03:49:38 <nanotube> and add other game currencies too. L$, WoW, etc.
467 2011-04-13 03:49:51 <nanotube> midnightmagic: hasn't stopped wow gold trading. :)
468 2011-04-13 03:50:23 <Kiba> they could ban accounts all they want...
469 2011-04-13 03:50:41 <midnightmagic> nanotube: CCP is actively disincentivizing it with mechanisms that have stripped most of the value away from the gold farmers' old heydays.
470 2011-04-13 03:51:01 <nanotube> midnightmagic: mmm, it's almost like they /want/ to kill their game
471 2011-04-13 03:51:04 <nanotube> heh
472 2011-04-13 03:51:30 <Kiba> all the MMOs have inflationary policies..
473 2011-04-13 03:51:37 <midnightmagic> nanotube: no, they just know that time-in-game is worth more to the game's inherent value than money-to-3rd-parties. :)
474 2011-04-13 03:51:55 Donald_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
475 2011-04-13 03:52:02 <Kiba> what would it take for bitcoin to be the unofficial currency of MMOs?
476 2011-04-13 03:52:03 <midnightmagic> Kiba: as far as I know, CCP is the only one with an actual, full-time economist who can effect change.
477 2011-04-13 03:52:23 * nanotube has never played it, so really is just making snarky comments.
478 2011-04-13 03:52:26 <midnightmagic> Kiba: government tax evasion?
479 2011-04-13 03:52:31 <midnightmagic> oh. :)
480 2011-04-13 03:53:01 <Kiba> it would be lulz if everyone use bitcoin rather than the game's currency
481 2011-04-13 03:53:53 <midnightmagic> nanotube: it's a fun game, and it's incredible to see them paying attention to their economist.. very awesome stuff. and they stripped isk of their 3rd-party worth by making it incredibly risky to buy isk from a farmer (they nab people months after the fact just for owning it) and by selling plex themselves for a reasonable price.
482 2011-04-13 03:54:40 <nanotube> aha! now the motive comes out. *selling plex themselves*
483 2011-04-13 03:54:41 <nanotube> :)
484 2011-04-13 03:54:43 <Kiba> so, do people still use ISK?
485 2011-04-13 03:54:43 <midnightmagic> they refuse to outright kill accounts for it, and are preferring to use economic and technical means to put gold farmers out of business.
486 2011-04-13 03:54:58 <jgarzik> I think bitcoin's value will be too variable for mainstream MMOs to want to use it
487 2011-04-13 03:55:08 <midnightmagic> nanotube: well it's pretty irritating to find someone else monetizing the game you slaved over for a decade. :)
488 2011-04-13 03:55:15 EPiSKiNG has joined
489 2011-04-13 03:55:28 sabalaba has joined
490 2011-04-13 03:55:34 * Kiba thinks of way to monentize his tetris game somehow
491 2011-04-13 03:55:36 <nanotube> midnightmagic: well presumably, the gold farmers pay for game access?
492 2011-04-13 03:55:36 <midnightmagic> i'd be irritated.
493 2011-04-13 03:55:49 <witten> MMOs have no incentive to use a distributed currency like bitcoin when they can use their own fiat currency that they can mint at will
494 2011-04-13 03:56:46 <Blitzboom> they do, if the creator is a bitcoin fan
495 2011-04-13 03:56:47 <midnightmagic> nanotube: yeah, but as they've shown, in a game where the prices are set by the players themselves, gold farming puts isk into a massive inflationary bubble that kills off large numbers of new subscribers.
496 2011-04-13 03:58:14 <midnightmagic> isk stability is dependent on a functioning market. by selling isk for less than a real player could make it for (say missioning) then nobody missions, nobody mines, isk is worthless, and people quit who can't afford to buy, but can afford to spend time.
497 2011-04-13 03:58:44 <nanotube> midnightmagic: well, they just need to make it hard enough to make that it's not economical for gold farmers to sell it for cheap.
498 2011-04-13 03:59:20 <Kiba> I think an MMO don't use their own fiat currency
499 2011-04-13 03:59:24 <midnightmagic> nanotube: or just plain uneconomical. and that's what they're doing.
500 2011-04-13 03:59:29 <Kiba> instead letting the free market works to select a currency
501 2011-04-13 03:59:47 <nanotube> midnightmagic: anyway, i'm sure it's an interesting system :)
502 2011-04-13 04:00:06 <midnightmagic> "Withdraw via Liberty Reserve is currently offline. Please try again tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience." <-- this happens too often at MtGox.
503 2011-04-13 04:00:21 <Kiba> Liberty Reserve sucks?
504 2011-04-13 04:00:22 <midnightmagic> nanotube: they have very pretty graphs. :)
505 2011-04-13 04:00:56 <nanotube> midnightmagic: heh maybe you should consider cloning them for bitcoin :)
506 2011-04-13 04:01:09 <Kiba> a massive game like EVE:Online?
507 2011-04-13 04:01:12 <Kiba> that's crazy
508 2011-04-13 04:01:15 <jgarzik> Kiba: charge people 1 BTC to mess with another person's Tetris game. Say 1 BTC for jgarzik to rotate a block on Kiba's game. 2 BTC to deduct points from Kiba's game. 3 BTC for Kiba to retaliate against jgarzik, and deduct points from his Tetris high score.
509 2011-04-13 04:01:20 <jgarzik> call it Tetris Wars
510 2011-04-13 04:01:22 <midnightmagic> Kiba: that's MtGox. LR is working just fine.
511 2011-04-13 04:01:47 <midnightmagic> nanotube: I often think about exactly that. :)
512 2011-04-13 04:02:17 <Kiba> well, it would be great if somebody pledge some bitcoin for my game
513 2011-04-13 04:02:35 sacarlson has joined
514 2011-04-13 04:02:40 <midnightmagic> so many examples of good, high-quality, information-rich interfaces.. and then I realise I've spent the last two weeks tweaking a stupid PID controller so it does everything I want it to do and laugh and stop thinking I can spend that much time competing with MtGox. :)
515 2011-04-13 04:03:05 <nanotube> jgarzik: haha nice idea
516 2011-04-13 04:03:21 CyanDynamo has joined
517 2011-04-13 04:03:27 <nanotube> midnightmagic: guess most of the deposits coming in are now bank wire/ach/sepa, not lr.
518 2011-04-13 04:03:46 <nanotube> midnightmagic: haha
519 2011-04-13 04:04:03 <Kiba> jgarzik: I was thinking of mining system
520 2011-04-13 04:04:06 <Kiba> err
521 2011-04-13 04:04:10 <Kiba> items system
522 2011-04-13 04:04:15 <witten> midnightmagic: that thought has occurred to multiple people :)
523 2011-04-13 04:04:20 <midnightmagic> nanotube: withdrawal is still primarily LR isn't it?
524 2011-04-13 04:04:26 <Kiba> you mine tehm during your tetris session
525 2011-04-13 04:04:32 <midnightmagic> i see he does euro bank wires too..
526 2011-04-13 04:04:48 <Kiba> and you get to customize your item belt with items that you like
527 2011-04-13 04:05:00 <Kiba> but sometime you get items you don't like
528 2011-04-13 04:05:07 <Kiba> so you trade these items with other tetris players
529 2011-04-13 04:05:09 <midnightmagic> witten: :)
530 2011-04-13 04:05:15 <nanotube> yep, he does wd via other methods too, now. though i guess clearly, if it often happens that he's out of LR, more LR is going out than coming in.
531 2011-04-13 04:06:11 * MagicalTux confirm, LR sucks
532 2011-04-13 04:06:26 <nanotube> MagicalTux: \o/
533 2011-04-13 04:06:35 <Kiba> we need moar method for transfer!
534 2011-04-13 04:06:44 <nanotube> once you get the bank stuff working, you could always just dump lr.
535 2011-04-13 04:06:46 <Kiba> maybe you could sell mtgox gift cards
536 2011-04-13 04:07:00 redengin has quit (Quit: AndroIRC)
537 2011-04-13 04:07:08 <midnightmagic> nanotube++
538 2011-04-13 04:07:24 <Kiba> will mtgox add other currencies?
539 2011-04-13 04:07:29 <MagicalTux> Kiba, I have plans to allow mtgox users to transform parts of their balance into special codes which could be then exchanged (could even be redeemed via api for merchants)
540 2011-04-13 04:07:30 <Kiba> it seem like you're only dealing with USD
541 2011-04-13 04:07:37 <MagicalTux> Kiba, yes, it's planned too, alongside margin trading
542 2011-04-13 04:07:57 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: cool. Jed talked about that a long time ago.
543 2011-04-13 04:08:12 <jgarzik> (margin trading)
544 2011-04-13 04:08:16 <MagicalTux> I'm working on the new mtgox version almost fulltime now (should have done that earlier but got caught up between a earthquake, a tsunami and a nuclear power plant)
545 2011-04-13 04:08:26 <midnightmagic> ah crap, you're in Japan?
546 2011-04-13 04:08:29 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: that's no excuse, slacker!
547 2011-04-13 04:08:33 * jgarzik runs
548 2011-04-13 04:08:39 <MagicalTux> midnightmagic, yes, I am
549 2011-04-13 04:08:47 <Kiba> jgarzik: when will pastecoin come back online?
550 2011-04-13 04:08:49 <midnightmagic> my brother's in Tokyo, he's irritated the event was upgraded to level 7..
551 2011-04-13 04:08:55 <jgarzik> Kiba: "soon"
552 2011-04-13 04:09:00 <Kiba> soon?
553 2011-04-13 04:09:12 <jgarzik> he's irradiated?
554 2011-04-13 04:09:22 <MagicalTux> midnightmagic, I don't really care about the number they put on the event, what's important is what really happens
555 2011-04-13 04:09:35 <tcatm> I need someone to test a feature (or rather comment on it): http://bitcoincharts.com:800/markets/ "Currencies (Weighted Prices)"
556 2011-04-13 04:09:48 <Kiba> preventing a full blown nuclear power plant metldown is a marathon
557 2011-04-13 04:10:02 <Kiba> hmm
558 2011-04-13 04:10:07 <Kiba> there will be movie in the future
559 2011-04-13 04:10:37 <MagicalTux> lots of movies
560 2011-04-13 04:10:52 <midnightmagic> MagicalTux: neither does my brother, who doesn't seem to have any issues continuing his iaido instruction in Shinjuku
561 2011-04-13 04:10:53 <Kiba> about the nuclear incident in Japan
562 2011-04-13 04:11:16 <nanotube> tcatm: how to test? i see weighted prices... they look halfway reasonable...
563 2011-04-13 04:11:43 <Kiba> MagicalTux: do ya offer an API for ordering domain name and changing DNS information?
564 2011-04-13 04:11:51 <MagicalTux> midnightmagic, lots of foreigners left their work without leaving an address, and many of my customers required extra care to be able to fill the holes
565 2011-04-13 04:11:55 <MagicalTux> Kiba, soap api
566 2011-04-13 04:12:02 <Kiba> kool
567 2011-04-13 04:12:05 <MagicalTux> Kiba, https://ws.uid.st/Domains.html
568 2011-04-13 04:12:08 <Kiba> will learn to take advantage of it
569 2011-04-13 04:12:09 <tcatm> nanotube: would they be useful e.g. for websites (as they might return None)?
570 2011-04-13 04:12:11 <MagicalTux> (wsdl at https://ws.uid.st/Domains.wsdl)
571 2011-04-13 04:12:25 <MagicalTux> Kiba, you can privmsg me for access details
572 2011-04-13 04:12:31 * Kiba is working on his operational capacity for building and launching websites
573 2011-04-13 04:12:32 <LightRider> Is there a way to maintain two different bitcoin wallets on one machine?
574 2011-04-13 04:12:38 gjs278 has joined
575 2011-04-13 04:13:07 <midnightmagic> MagicalTux: it's incredible the fear involved.. the tsunami wave was heading here (BC, Canada) and you should've seen the people racing up and down the highway..
576 2011-04-13 04:13:08 <LightRider> For example, if I wanted to maintain my personal wallet for everyday affairs, but also have access to an organization's account when necessary?
577 2011-04-13 04:13:22 <witten> LightRider: you could use -datadir
578 2011-04-13 04:13:33 <witten> LightRider: but that's for the whole data directory and not just the wallet
579 2011-04-13 04:13:36 <midnightmagic> LightRider: you would have to start/restart bitcoind to switch wallets, as witten implies.
580 2011-04-13 04:14:01 <LightRider> Could I have two instances, each using their own directory?
581 2011-04-13 04:14:41 <LightRider> simultaneously I mean
582 2011-04-13 04:14:48 <midnightmagic> LightRider: I think there's something with the port you'd need to tweak.
583 2011-04-13 04:15:01 <midnightmagic> LightRider: if you have two machines, then yes, definitely. I do that.
584 2011-04-13 04:15:03 <LightRider> ah yes, of course
585 2011-04-13 04:15:21 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: That is interesting... I was thinking about going through OpenSRS. Does your domain API permit purchases via bitcoins?
586 2011-04-13 04:15:32 <MagicalTux> jgarzik, actually, it does
587 2011-04-13 04:15:36 <LightRider> I want to start accepting bitcoin donations for my organization, but I am wary of the accounting
588 2011-04-13 04:15:44 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: yum :)
589 2011-04-13 04:16:03 <MagicalTux> bitcoin pricings might not be stable, however~
590 2011-04-13 04:16:05 <Kiba> your...Venus organization where all you do is make video about tech instead of doing it, LightRider?
591 2011-04-13 04:16:05 <nanotube> tcatm: possibly maybe? guess if some site wants more stability in the indexed bitcoin prices.
592 2011-04-13 04:16:14 <MagicalTux> (ie. depends on current rates)
593 2011-04-13 04:16:14 <witten> LightRider: Quickbook doesn't suport bitcoins? :)
594 2011-04-13 04:16:23 <nanotube> they could use the weighted avg prices over the past $period
595 2011-04-13 04:16:33 <sacarlson> tcatm: looks good to me I bookmarked it
596 2011-04-13 04:16:44 <LightRider> more specifically, I don't want donations to the organization spill over into my personal account
597 2011-04-13 04:17:19 <midnightmagic> LightRider: bitcoind listaccounts <-- will let you handle multiple named accounts. it's not hard to keep things separate.
598 2011-04-13 04:17:29 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: how are purchases accomplished? through domainCreate ?
599 2011-04-13 04:17:32 <midnightmagic> bitcoind getnewaddress [accountname] and so on.
600 2011-04-13 04:17:39 <MagicalTux> jgarzik, yep
601 2011-04-13 04:17:53 <tcatm> sacarlson: don't! it's my internal testing server and will serve old data most of the time
602 2011-04-13 04:17:54 <LightRider> Interesting, thanks midnightmagic!
603 2011-04-13 04:18:02 <midnightmagic> welcome
604 2011-04-13 04:18:11 <tcatm> sacarlson: bookmark http://bitcoincharts.com instead
605 2011-04-13 04:18:14 <sacarlson> tcatm: ok understood
606 2011-04-13 04:18:15 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: how does billing work? do you charge bitcoins from user's mtgox account?
607 2011-04-13 04:18:15 <MagicalTux> tcatm, change the port :D
608 2011-04-13 04:18:25 <noagendamarket> Kiba you could sell ads on the tetris blocks :)
609 2011-04-13 04:18:32 <MagicalTux> jgarzik, I will be able to, later in time (for now you need to preload a specific wallet)
610 2011-04-13 04:18:41 prax_ has joined
611 2011-04-13 04:18:41 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: ok
612 2011-04-13 04:18:47 <tcatm> MagicalTux: it's already a different port
613 2011-04-13 04:19:36 <Kiba> noagendamarket: intruging idea but I don't think it will be large enough
614 2011-04-13 04:20:13 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: https://ws.uid.st/SMS.html works the same way? preload a wallet?
615 2011-04-13 04:20:31 <noagendamarket> Kiba text ads :)
616 2011-04-13 04:20:38 <MagicalTux> jgarzik, yep
617 2011-04-13 04:20:43 <MagicalTux> (same wallet)
618 2011-04-13 04:20:43 qwebirc25190 has joined
619 2011-04-13 04:21:17 <Kiba> the blocks are 20 by 20 pixels, noagendamarket
620 2011-04-13 04:21:28 <Kiba> I think micropayment will works better though
621 2011-04-13 04:21:39 <midnightmagic> Anyway, MagicalTux, please ignore my belly-aching re: LR withdrawal. It's just me being impatient.
622 2011-04-13 04:21:51 prax has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
623 2011-04-13 04:22:01 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
624 2011-04-13 04:22:03 * midnightmagic goes back to sleep.
625 2011-04-13 04:22:17 <Kiba> if nothing else, I plan to monentize jstet with operation fabulous ads
626 2011-04-13 04:22:24 <Kiba> and earn a steady 0.01 BTC a day with that
627 2011-04-13 04:22:39 <noagendamarket> make the blocks clickable links
628 2011-04-13 04:22:47 <noagendamarket> to websites
629 2011-04-13 04:22:48 <noagendamarket> lol
630 2011-04-13 04:23:01 <noagendamarket> a tetrectory
631 2011-04-13 04:24:40 <noagendamarket> the block would have a keyword
632 2011-04-13 04:24:50 <noagendamarket> people buy the keyword
633 2011-04-13 04:25:09 <tcatm> should I use weighted prices for Market Cap on bitcoinwatch?
634 2011-04-13 04:25:10 qwebirc25190 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
635 2011-04-13 04:25:33 <noagendamarket> kinda like selling pixels but not
636 2011-04-13 04:26:07 <nanotube> tcatm: mmm up to you. i think 'traditionally' market cap is just based on 'last trade'
637 2011-04-13 04:26:26 <nanotube> (or closing price for previous day, etc, depending on frequency of update)
638 2011-04-13 04:26:50 <jgarzik> nanotube: yep
639 2011-04-13 04:27:08 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,stats
640 2011-04-13 04:27:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118101 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 842 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 3 hours, 57 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 91454.83071419
641 2011-04-13 04:27:10 NickelBot has joined
642 2011-04-13 04:27:12 <jgarzik> market cap is a dumb, simple calculation: last trade * total shares
643 2011-04-13 04:27:20 Donald_ has joined
644 2011-04-13 04:27:24 <EPiSKiNG> EWWWW @ the next difficulty
645 2011-04-13 04:27:37 <Blitzboom> eww, still way too low :P
646 2011-04-13 04:27:39 <LightRider> How do you create a new account?
647 2011-04-13 04:27:52 <EPiSKiNG> LightRider: carefully
648 2011-04-13 04:28:33 <lfm> LightRider: you mean bitcoin?
649 2011-04-13 04:28:37 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,calc 2280000
650 2011-04-13 04:28:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2280000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 1 day, 19 hours, 5 minutes, and 22 seconds
651 2011-04-13 04:28:47 <LightRider> yes, nevermind, I figured it out
652 2011-04-13 04:28:53 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,calcd 2280000 91454.83071419
653 2011-04-13 04:28:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2280000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 91454.83071419, is 1 day, 23 hours, 51 minutes, and 18 seconds
654 2011-04-13 04:29:01 <EPiSKiNG> ohh, not bad at all
655 2011-04-13 04:29:09 <EPiSKiNG> 6 hr difference
656 2011-04-13 04:30:29 <jgarzik> tcatm: I think you should spell out "Gigahash" and "TeraFLOP" ... because it looks more awesome
657 2011-04-13 04:30:31 <jgarzik> :)
658 2011-04-13 04:31:11 <EPiSKiNG> yeah, plus they're reeeeeaalllly large numbers, soooo why shouldn't the name be long?
659 2011-04-13 04:31:41 <LightRider> Alright, it appears that these multiple accounts are really just addresses in the same wallet. I was looking for a more distinct seperation.
660 2011-04-13 04:32:10 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
661 2011-04-13 04:32:46 <sacarlson> LightRider: you want to point to a different wallet? I think you can set the bitcoind to use a different config file dir
662 2011-04-13 04:33:03 <witten> yup, with -datadir
663 2011-04-13 04:33:34 <witten> there's also this: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/68
664 2011-04-13 04:34:32 <tcatm> jgarzik: [master 8d60b88] make bcw look more awesome 1 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) :)
665 2011-04-13 04:34:43 <jgarzik> har
666 2011-04-13 04:35:43 <nanotube> hehe
667 2011-04-13 04:37:10 <jgarzik> IMO the market cap list will eventually need trimming, or at least stop growing. Much love to my ancestral homeland of Poland, but I'm not sure PLN is hugely important in the world...
668 2011-04-13 04:38:10 * nanotube sics xelister on jgarzik :)
669 2011-04-13 04:38:58 <jgarzik> tcatm: do you have weekly or monthly charts of number-of-transactions or number-of-bitcoins-sent ?
670 2011-04-13 04:39:47 <tcatm> nope
671 2011-04-13 04:40:05 <tcatm> but I have ntx and send_btc fields for each block
672 2011-04-13 04:40:57 <jgarzik> tcatm: 100 BTC of motivation and thanks sent your way
673 2011-04-13 04:42:31 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
674 2011-04-13 04:43:29 <tcatm> hm. I'll add it to bcharts somewhere to the bitcoin page
675 2011-04-13 04:48:39 BitterTea has joined
676 2011-04-13 04:48:39 BitterTea has quit (Changing host)
677 2011-04-13 04:48:39 BitterTea has joined
678 2011-04-13 04:49:13 <Kiba> new article! http://bitcoinweekly.com/articles/legal-tender-illegal-tender-will-bitcoin-be-banned
679 2011-04-13 04:50:56 justmoon has joined
680 2011-04-13 04:53:20 <nanotube> Kiba: nice article. you wrote it yourself?
681 2011-04-13 04:54:06 <Kiba> no
682 2011-04-13 04:54:26 <Kiba> I got a writer sending me articles in exchange for bitcoin
683 2011-04-13 04:54:32 <Kiba> the only question: will I make my money back?
684 2011-04-13 04:54:44 <Kiba> bitcoinweekly is currently a losing proposition and I can't afford much articles
685 2011-04-13 04:55:35 <Kiba> well
686 2011-04-13 04:55:43 <Kiba> somebody send me 10 BTC 4 days ago
687 2011-04-13 04:55:45 <Kiba> that's good
688 2011-04-13 04:56:35 robotarmy has joined
689 2011-04-13 04:56:39 NickelBot has joined
690 2011-04-13 04:57:00 <Kiba> that's good for two articles
691 2011-04-13 05:04:32 <genjix> 05:58 <@ljrbot> TX 801a9a2728b48d58a8ad0e53b0f2b3db68f422443a10d403c26695116183d11a: 195oNwn7ubregwNJgsggkdD9a622MD6JZ5 0.40 BTC
692 2011-04-13 05:04:42 <genjix> i thought transactions always had 2 outputs?
693 2011-04-13 05:05:00 <genjix> even if the second output was 0
694 2011-04-13 05:05:04 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
695 2011-04-13 05:05:29 <genjix> i guess not
696 2011-04-13 05:05:40 <genjix> http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000000a762cb1a7bef575739a653cbb0cefe4e94627c59408af1f33b92
697 2011-04-13 05:05:47 <genjix> ;;bc,difficulty
698 2011-04-13 05:05:48 <gribble> Error: "bc,difficulty" is not a valid command.
699 2011-04-13 05:05:52 <genjix> ;;bc,help
700 2011-04-13 05:05:52 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
701 2011-04-13 05:05:56 <genjix> ;;bc,diff
702 2011-04-13 05:05:57 <gribble> 82347.22294654
703 2011-04-13 05:06:33 xenon481 has joined
704 2011-04-13 05:10:19 stamit has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
705 2011-04-13 05:11:43 stamit has joined
706 2011-04-13 05:14:13 pogden has joined
707 2011-04-13 05:17:50 <jgarzik> MagicalTux: can said wallet be loaded programmatically?
708 2011-04-13 05:18:20 <MagicalTux> jgarzik, I could add this easily (ie add a /Wallet webservice with methods to get the bitcoin charge address on top of balance/etc)
709 2011-04-13 05:19:33 <nanotube> genjix: nope, tx can have 1 output, if there's no change.
710 2011-04-13 05:19:44 <nanotube> and they can have more than 2 outputs as well.
711 2011-04-13 05:22:02 <sacarlson> Is there a way to send a signed document that proves you are now holding a certain number of bitcoin? If not what could posibly be created that could?
712 2011-04-13 05:22:48 <nanotube> sacarlson: well, you could extract the private key associated with the address holding the coins, and use it to create arbitrary signed messages.
713 2011-04-13 05:22:56 <nanotube> it's not built into the default client though.
714 2011-04-13 05:23:04 <nanotube> but iirc there was some code posted on the forums to extract keys, etc.
715 2011-04-13 05:23:20 Stellar has joined
716 2011-04-13 05:24:43 <MagicalTux> [14:19:08] <sacarlson> Is there a way to send a signed document that proves you are now holding a certain number of bitcoin? If not what could posibly be created that could? <- you can sign with your public key holding the funds such a document
717 2011-04-13 05:24:53 <MagicalTux> well, currently no client allow you to, but it wouldn't be too hard
718 2011-04-13 05:25:12 <nanotube> MagicalTux: well, you'd be signing with the private key
719 2011-04-13 05:25:20 <nanotube> the public key would be used to verify :)
720 2011-04-13 05:25:44 <sacarlson> nanotube: would that not also give them access to the key so they could us it?
721 2011-04-13 05:25:57 <nanotube> sacarlson: nope
722 2011-04-13 05:26:03 <nanotube> the magic of public key crypto :)
723 2011-04-13 05:26:13 <sacarlson> nanotube: cool
724 2011-04-13 05:26:16 <nanotube> you keep private key private, and only hand out public key
725 2011-04-13 05:26:19 <genjix> ;;bc,diff
726 2011-04-13 05:26:20 <gribble> 82347.22294654
727 2011-04-13 05:26:38 <genjix> how does that number relate to the leading 0's of the block header hash?
728 2011-04-13 05:26:49 <nanotube> hehe mtgox price is .000001 below .9 usd heh
729 2011-04-13 05:26:55 <genjix> it's INT64 right
730 2011-04-13 05:27:05 <nanotube> genjix: it's a ratio of current target, to the maximum target.
731 2011-04-13 05:27:13 <sacarlson> nanotube: ok I already have the public private thing created for the #bitcoin-otc site can you give me an example of how that could be done?
732 2011-04-13 05:27:13 <nanotube> current target is ,,bc,hextarget
733 2011-04-13 05:27:13 <gribble> 000000000000CBBD000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
734 2011-04-13 05:27:28 <nanotube> max target is... about 82347.22294654 times larger :)
735 2011-04-13 05:27:34 <genjix> ahh ok
736 2011-04-13 05:27:43 Zenith77 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
737 2011-04-13 05:27:57 <nanotube> sacarlson: well, pgp keys are different than the ecdsa keys used in bitcoin - though 'in broad scheme of things' they act similar
738 2011-04-13 05:28:21 <nanotube> sacarlson: with gpg - you can sign a document - and others can verify that you signed it using your public key. exactly what gets done when you use gpg auth to authenticate with the bot.
739 2011-04-13 05:28:35 <nevezen> /clear/
740 2011-04-13 05:29:46 skyewm has joined
741 2011-04-13 05:29:51 <sacarlson> nanotube: ok then with this ecdsa keys method what steps would be required to send to a party ?
742 2011-04-13 05:30:48 <sacarlson> nanotube: are the tools already available to do such a thing?
743 2011-04-13 05:30:49 <nanotube> sacarlson: well, you'd need to extract the key, then use openssl libs to create a signature, and send it along with the public key to your receiver.
744 2011-04-13 05:31:05 an20 has joined
745 2011-04-13 05:31:06 <nanotube> sacarlson: not sure, ask... genjix or grondilu (don't recall which one of them was working on something similar)
746 2011-04-13 05:31:30 <sacarlson> nanotube: ok thanks
747 2011-04-13 05:31:44 <an20> for poclbm.py, what should your askrate be if you are solo mining?
748 2011-04-13 05:32:42 <sacarlson> nanotube: I've used openssl but I don't recall having to extract keys but I will look into that
749 2011-04-13 05:32:50 xenon481 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
750 2011-04-13 05:33:30 <nanotube> sacarlson: yea i dunno exactly either. i just know that the ecdsa key type (used for bitcoin addrs) is not pgp compatible
751 2011-04-13 05:33:44 <nanotube> so you have to use the openssl libs to play with those
752 2011-04-13 05:34:01 <sacarlson> nanotube: ok
753 2011-04-13 05:37:33 Guest3223 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
754 2011-04-13 05:38:10 <genjix> sacarlson: https://github.com/grondilu/bitcoin-bash-tools
755 2011-04-13 05:39:16 <witten> does bitcoin have a new miniupnp dependency?
756 2011-04-13 05:39:32 <sacarlson> genjix : thanks I'll take a look after I eat my breakfast
757 2011-04-13 05:39:39 <genjix> ECDSA is for signing transactions
758 2011-04-13 05:40:09 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|witten, soft-dep if they used my code
759 2011-04-13 05:40:22 <witten> looks like hard dep :)
760 2011-04-13 05:40:42 <genjix> an address is a hash of an EDCSA public key
761 2011-04-13 05:40:46 <witten> net.cpp:8:32: error: miniupnpc/miniwget.h: No such file or directory
762 2011-04-13 05:41:02 <witten> oh looks like I need to re-run configure maybe
763 2011-04-13 05:41:23 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|:)
764 2011-04-13 05:41:38 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|what branch are you using?
765 2011-04-13 05:41:51 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|mainline has no configure yet
766 2011-04-13 05:41:54 <witten> uh.. the main one?
767 2011-04-13 05:42:00 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|unless it was merged
768 2011-04-13 05:42:05 <witten> nope, no configure
769 2011-04-13 05:42:31 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
770 2011-04-13 05:42:41 <witten> not sure why it thinks USE_UPNP is true
771 2011-04-13 05:42:58 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|witten, make USE_UPNP=
772 2011-04-13 05:43:49 <witten> thanks.. is that a bug?
773 2011-04-13 05:44:46 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|no
774 2011-04-13 05:47:47 <witten> I mean, should the makefiles be changed to do USE_UPNP:= instead of USE_UPNP:=0 in mainline?
775 2011-04-13 05:47:54 <witten> because :=0 doesn't build
776 2011-04-13 05:48:27 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|it does w miniupnp
777 2011-04-13 05:48:46 <witten> right, but it's broken if you don't have miniupnp
778 2011-04-13 05:48:58 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|0 means off by default at runtime, but still compiled
779 2011-04-13 05:49:04 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
780 2011-04-13 05:49:12 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|null means no support at all
781 2011-04-13 05:49:43 <witten> oh ok
782 2011-04-13 05:50:26 * MagicalTux updated the SSL certificate on mtgox.com
783 2011-04-13 05:50:47 <genjix> how does moving work?
784 2011-04-13 05:50:56 <genjix> is it signing the coin
785 2011-04-13 05:51:00 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|genjix, no
786 2011-04-13 05:51:06 an20 has quit ()
787 2011-04-13 05:51:08 sacarlson has joined
788 2011-04-13 05:51:10 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|moving doesn't touch coins
789 2011-04-13 05:51:21 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|it is purely accounting
790 2011-04-13 05:51:42 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|you can even make one account balance negative
791 2011-04-13 05:52:17 Omnifarious is now known as Omni|AFK
792 2011-04-13 05:52:50 <genjix> but the coins are associated with your bitcoin addresses
793 2011-04-13 05:52:56 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|nope
794 2011-04-13 05:53:24 <genjix> but you sign money to people by adding their public key to a transaction.
795 2011-04-13 05:53:43 <genjix> and since your address comes from the hash of your public key
796 2011-04-13 05:54:12 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|sending money from accountA can use coins sent to accountB
797 2011-04-13 05:54:36 <genjix> how does that work?
798 2011-04-13 05:54:45 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|the address->account mapping is oneway
799 2011-04-13 05:55:11 amiller has joined
800 2011-04-13 05:55:13 FellowTraveler has joined
801 2011-04-13 05:55:18 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|the first time bitcoind sees a tx, it adds it to an acct balance
802 2011-04-13 05:55:28 <FellowTraveler> hi all
803 2011-04-13 05:55:36 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|that's the extent of the acct-addr associations
804 2011-04-13 05:56:04 <genjix> wait
805 2011-04-13 05:56:31 <genjix> so I give my bitcoin address (ECDSA hash of public key) to my friend
806 2011-04-13 05:57:13 EPiSKiNG has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
807 2011-04-13 05:57:29 <genjix> my friend then creates a transaction saying OP_CHECKSIG <bitcoin address>
808 2011-04-13 05:57:36 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|bitcoind remembers 'Joe gave me $5', but not which $5 bill it was
809 2011-04-13 05:58:53 gat3way has joined
810 2011-04-13 05:59:06 <genjix> luke-jr|otg: but how does that look in code?
811 2011-04-13 05:59:31 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|nfc
812 2011-04-13 05:59:40 <genjix> if an address is an ECDSA hash of the public key, then how can OP_CHECKSIG work?
813 2011-04-13 06:00:22 <luke-jr> otg!~luke-jr@ishibashi.dashjr.org|...
814 2011-04-13 06:01:51 <nanotube> genjix: a tx includes the public key of the signing ecdsa privkey
815 2011-04-13 06:02:30 <genjix> right, so the from address of that tx is computed by computing the address from the signing pubkey
816 2011-04-13 06:02:55 WakiMiko_ has joined
817 2011-04-13 06:03:13 <LobsterMan> ;;bc,stats
818 2011-04-13 06:03:15 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118118 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 825 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 22 hours, 56 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 91936.41921397
819 2011-04-13 06:03:17 ForceDestroyer has joined
820 2011-04-13 06:05:10 <nanotube> genjix: right, that's part of the verification.
821 2011-04-13 06:05:23 <genjix> cool
822 2011-04-13 06:05:29 jeremias has joined
823 2011-04-13 06:05:35 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
824 2011-04-13 06:07:15 Kicchiri has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
825 2011-04-13 06:09:19 <genjix> does OP_CODESEPARATOR come after scriptSig?
826 2011-04-13 06:14:01 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
827 2011-04-13 06:14:05 <genjix> how does this script work?
828 2011-04-13 06:14:16 <genjix> OP_OVER OP_ADD OP_HASH160 <hash160> OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG
829 2011-04-13 06:15:36 <genjix> scriptSig: <scriptsig> <public_key> <randomNumber>
830 2011-04-13 06:15:41 <genjix> copies the 2nd to top stack item to the top (public key)
831 2011-04-13 06:16:21 <genjix> OP_ADD: add the public key + hash160
832 2011-04-13 06:16:24 wolfspraul has joined
833 2011-04-13 06:16:47 Silverpike has quit ()
834 2011-04-13 06:17:21 <genjix> sorry, hash the pubkey + randomNumber
835 2011-04-13 06:18:25 <genjix> ok nevermind, i understand now
836 2011-04-13 06:22:20 Stellar has quit (Quit: Signed)
837 2011-04-13 06:23:42 skyewm has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
838 2011-04-13 06:28:01 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
839 2011-04-13 06:28:25 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
840 2011-04-13 06:29:35 danbri has joined
841 2011-04-13 06:31:27 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 400000
842 2011-04-13 06:31:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 1 week, 3 days, 5 hours, 36 minutes, and 36 seconds
843 2011-04-13 06:35:33 EPiSKiNG has joined
844 2011-04-13 06:35:51 Stellar has joined
845 2011-04-13 06:38:59 fimp has joined
846 2011-04-13 06:41:00 <jgarzik> "This means the maximum number of OUTBOUND connections (from you to someone else) is 8. If you want your bitcoind to connect to more than 8 nodes in the network (which isn't that much), then change this number to something higher than 8. I use 1000."
847 2011-04-13 06:41:02 <jgarzik> oh dog
848 2011-04-13 06:41:06 <jgarzik> oh god, even.
849 2011-04-13 06:41:20 <jgarzik> bitcoinpool uses 1,000 connections. lovely.
850 2011-04-13 06:41:51 cdecker has joined
851 2011-04-13 06:42:03 <maxlo1> i posted that patch for the systray icon in the forum
852 2011-04-13 06:42:14 <justmoon> jgarzik: I think he's saying that's what he set as his limit
853 2011-04-13 06:42:30 <justmoon> my node also has 1000 as it's limit, but only 200 or so actual connections
854 2011-04-13 06:43:14 <jgarzik> justmoon: yes -- and this is _not_ recommended behavior for most clients. the network can tolerate a few people hacking their clients, but we should not go around recommending this change for all.
855 2011-04-13 06:43:37 <genjix> why not?
856 2011-04-13 06:44:06 <justmoon> aren't highly connected nodes good for the network (assuming they're running on high-bandwidth, low latency machines with the latest bitcoin version)?
857 2011-04-13 06:44:29 <justmoon> obviously I agree you shouldn't recommend that setting to normal users
858 2011-04-13 06:44:34 <lfm> yes, you presumptions are the problem
859 2011-04-13 06:44:51 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
860 2011-04-13 06:45:14 <justmoon> well, I haven't read the thread, so I'm probably missing the context of that statement
861 2011-04-13 06:45:41 <justmoon> oh wait, you're talking about OUTGOING connections
862 2011-04-13 06:45:55 <justmoon> I have 8 outgoing connections, the 200 is all incoming connections
863 2011-04-13 06:46:13 <lfm> people running ddos attacks on themselves? they ask for 500 connects and then wonder why their youtube is slow
864 2011-04-13 06:46:21 <justmoon> yeah I can see how too many people with too many outgoing conns would be bad :D
865 2011-04-13 06:46:54 <justmoon> sorry guys, I've just pulled an all-nighter - reading comprehension levels critically low
866 2011-04-13 06:47:22 <lfm> doesnt matter what direction really
867 2011-04-13 06:47:45 <justmoon> lfm: I think lots of outgoing are bad because clients will accept a limited number of incoming conns
868 2011-04-13 06:47:59 <justmoon> so you could theoretically block them all - that's an attack vector I believe
869 2011-04-13 06:48:11 <theorbtwo> Surely, your number of maximum total connections should be set such that you won't be flooded.
870 2011-04-13 06:49:11 <justmoon> theorbtwo: ah, you're right, that's a danger with accepting too many connections
871 2011-04-13 06:49:29 <ArtForz> hrrrm.... they're just asking to be used in a multiplier attack to DoS themselves
872 2011-04-13 06:49:57 <justmoon> ArtForz: if the official client can be used in a multiplier attack wouldn't we be screwed anyways?
873 2011-04-13 06:50:08 <ArtForz> well, officiel client with 1000 connections, yes
874 2011-04-13 06:50:28 <ArtForz> send one 4kB tx, node relays it to 1000 peers
875 2011-04-13 06:50:31 <ArtForz> "whoops"
876 2011-04-13 06:51:00 <justmoon> well, if it relays it that means it's valid right? so it would spread exponentially in a p2p network anyway
877 2011-04-13 06:51:16 <ArtForz> yes
878 2011-04-13 06:51:34 <ArtForz> but by a single node with shitloads of connections seeing that TX first will pretty much DoS itself
879 2011-04-13 06:51:40 <lfm> not exponentiallt.
880 2011-04-13 06:51:44 TheAncientGoat has joined
881 2011-04-13 06:51:53 <justmoon> lfm: limited exponential growth, no?
882 2011-04-13 06:51:54 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
883 2011-04-13 06:51:56 <genjix> is there a way to get POSIX time in script?
884 2011-04-13 06:52:18 <ArtForz> with 1k connections, send it 12kB/sec of tx and it fills a 100Mbit pipe...
885 2011-04-13 06:52:43 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
886 2011-04-13 06:53:13 <lfm> only for 1 sec
887 2011-04-13 06:53:24 <ArtForz> so send one per second
888 2011-04-13 06:53:37 <lfm> youd have to be continuously creating new tx
889 2011-04-13 06:53:45 <ArtForz> 1 tx/sec is no problem
890 2011-04-13 06:54:09 taco_the_paco has joined
891 2011-04-13 06:54:27 <lfm> and they dont send to nodes that have em alreay I thot
892 2011-04-13 06:54:32 <ArtForz> yes
893 2011-04-13 06:54:43 <ArtForz> thats why you send that tx to *that one* node
894 2011-04-13 06:54:58 <ArtForz> no peers have it = it relays to everyone
895 2011-04-13 06:55:25 <lfm> ok i see, ya
896 2011-04-13 06:56:47 <ArtForz> oh, and iirc limitfreerelay only counts incoming tx
897 2011-04-13 06:57:29 <ArtForz> so even simple 0.01-chained spam would work
898 2011-04-13 06:58:51 <lfm> it doesnt matter if the connection was started as outgoing or incoming tho, it will send new tx out on all of them
899 2011-04-13 06:58:52 knotwork has joined
900 2011-04-13 06:59:20 <ArtForz> yes
901 2011-04-13 06:59:35 <ArtForz> thats why running with crazy high maxconnections might not be a too good idea
902 2011-04-13 06:59:36 <justmoon> my takeaway from all this is that the overall connection limit should be chosen based on the bandwidth you have available
903 2011-04-13 06:59:46 NickelBot has joined
904 2011-04-13 06:59:50 <lfm> ya
905 2011-04-13 07:01:01 <lfm> justmoon and remember most bandwidth these days is much larger incoming than outgoing
906 2011-04-13 07:01:16 <justmoon> well, at home, yeah
907 2011-04-13 07:01:35 <justmoon> my node is running in magicaltux's datacenter
908 2011-04-13 07:02:03 <justmoon> or rather on a server I rented from him, he probably doesn't have a whole datacenter ;)
909 2011-04-13 07:05:23 maxlo1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
910 2011-04-13 07:07:13 toffoo has quit ()
911 2011-04-13 07:07:45 maxlo has joined
912 2011-04-13 07:08:55 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
913 2011-04-13 07:11:47 martok604 has joined
914 2011-04-13 07:12:46 <martok604> Hey, has anyone successfully built latest git against Debian testing? I am getting: /usr/include/boost/asio/ssl/detail/openssl_context_service.hpp:73:28: error: '::SSLv2_method' has not been declared
915 2011-04-13 07:14:10 purpleposeidon has joined
916 2011-04-13 07:14:46 <LightRider> Is there a commandline option to keep the client from generating new accounts whenever I send coins?
917 2011-04-13 07:15:49 purpleposeidon has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
918 2011-04-13 07:17:44 <lfm> LightRider: why would you care?
919 2011-04-13 07:18:20 toffoo has joined
920 2011-04-13 07:20:30 zenfoo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
921 2011-04-13 07:28:29 <cosurgi> guys, do we have wallet encryption now, or not?
922 2011-04-13 07:28:31 <gjs278> answer the question
923 2011-04-13 07:28:35 <gjs278> no, we don't
924 2011-04-13 07:28:44 * cosurgi is worried, because he started recommending bitcoin to non-tech savvy friends.
925 2011-04-13 07:28:44 <gjs278> nobody can decide what method to use
926 2011-04-13 07:29:00 <gjs278> think of it this way
927 2011-04-13 07:29:08 <gjs278> their firefox profile has all of their saved passwords in it
928 2011-04-13 07:29:09 <cosurgi> if they lose their money due to virus, they will blame me.
929 2011-04-13 07:29:11 <gjs278> for their bank
930 2011-04-13 07:29:12 <gjs278> email
931 2011-04-13 07:29:14 <gjs278> everything
932 2011-04-13 07:29:18 <gjs278> and it's not encrypted
933 2011-04-13 07:29:41 <lfm> and if they lose their password they will blame us too
934 2011-04-13 07:29:49 <gjs278> it's true
935 2011-04-13 07:30:16 <gjs278> I wouldn't worry about it though, hardly anyone uses bitcoins and I don't think it's really that big of a target right now
936 2011-04-13 07:30:34 <gjs278> compared to just trying to bilk actual money out of people with that scammy adware crap
937 2011-04-13 07:30:45 <cosurgi> "hardly anyone" is not an argument. It is for everyone
938 2011-04-13 07:30:47 <purplezky> that's why you should recommend something like mybitcoin.com, because they don't backup their local wallet anyhow
939 2011-04-13 07:31:04 <cosurgi> hm, maybe that's a solution.
940 2011-04-13 07:31:17 <gjs278> cosurgi nobody uses bitcoins
941 2011-04-13 07:31:22 <cosurgi> who owns mybitcoin.com ?
942 2011-04-13 07:31:31 <gjs278> walk down the street and ask everyone their bitcoin address
943 2011-04-13 07:32:00 <purplezky> gjs278 eventelly i foresee a sort of dns service for bitcoin addresses
944 2011-04-13 07:32:06 <purplezky> eventually
945 2011-04-13 07:32:10 <gjs278> yeah
946 2011-04-13 07:32:36 <purplezky> i already added token to bitcoinaddress mappings in my smsbitcoins.com
947 2011-04-13 07:32:54 <purplezky> but maybe i need to make a bitcointoken service
948 2011-04-13 07:33:47 <purplezky> but i guess it would be of no use unless support for it would be embedded in bitcoind
949 2011-04-13 07:33:55 <lfm> gjs278: walk down the street and ask random people if they have their own tv show, that means there is no TV
950 2011-04-13 07:34:02 <gjs278> lol
951 2011-04-13 07:34:09 <gjs278> if they don't have a bitcoin address they don't use bitcoins
952 2011-04-13 07:34:23 <lfm> doesnt mean no one does
953 2011-04-13 07:34:31 <gjs278> a better analogy would be walking down the street and asking them if they have a tv
954 2011-04-13 07:34:49 <cosurgi> I don''t
955 2011-04-13 07:34:55 <gjs278> have you heard of a tv
956 2011-04-13 07:35:00 <cosurgi> people without TV use bitcoins.
957 2011-04-13 07:35:04 <gjs278> that's it
958 2011-04-13 07:35:06 <lfm> if only one person in the whole universe used btc thats more than none
959 2011-04-13 07:35:11 <gjs278> if you own a tv you're not allowed to use it
960 2011-04-13 07:35:12 <gjs278> yeah
961 2011-04-13 07:35:23 <gjs278> you know what I meant
962 2011-04-13 07:35:25 <gjs278> don't be a retard
963 2011-04-13 07:35:52 <lfm> and you knwo you're wrong so you dont be retarded
964 2011-04-13 07:35:58 <gjs278> hardly anyone
965 2011-04-13 07:36:00 <gjs278> uses them
966 2011-04-13 07:36:01 <gjs278> is that better
967 2011-04-13 07:36:03 <cosurgi> go and buy a book with BTC, you have 100 000 titles to pick from.
968 2011-04-13 07:36:03 <gjs278> you stupid prick
969 2011-04-13 07:36:56 <lfm> ok so hardly anyone uses bitcoin, so that means those that do use it should be exposed to theft?
970 2011-04-13 07:37:02 <gjs278> they're not
971 2011-04-13 07:37:05 Spenvo has joined
972 2011-04-13 07:37:05 <purplezky> on a more serious note, has any of the bitcoin forks added support for bitcoinaddress "dns names"
973 2011-04-13 07:37:22 <purplezky> or would this be an add-on i can make
974 2011-04-13 07:37:28 <gjs278> who here has had their wallet stolen by a virus
975 2011-04-13 07:37:49 <cosurgi> Blue* guy.
976 2011-04-13 07:37:58 <lfm> that was a trojan
977 2011-04-13 07:38:00 <cosurgi> he isn't here now
978 2011-04-13 07:38:02 <Blitzboom> PARITY
979 2011-04-13 07:38:10 <cosurgi> oh, that was Blitzboom ?
980 2011-04-13 07:38:14 <cosurgi> I never remember
981 2011-04-13 07:38:24 <purplezky> whoa 1 BTC=1 bitcoin
982 2011-04-13 07:38:38 <cosurgi> who let those guys in here?
983 2011-04-13 07:39:02 <lfm> purplezky: revelation?
984 2011-04-13 07:39:07 <cosurgi> too many people are using bitcoins, and our channels is flooded with noobs.
985 2011-04-13 07:39:42 <lfm> and retards like me
986 2011-04-13 07:39:46 <gjs278> it jumped a lot in the last half hour
987 2011-04-13 07:39:51 <cosurgi> anyway, we still need a wallet encryption. Even the stupidest encryption
988 2011-04-13 07:39:55 <gjs278> price now is 96
989 2011-04-13 07:40:17 <gjs278> ok
990 2011-04-13 07:40:20 <gjs278> install gpg
991 2011-04-13 07:40:26 <gjs278> encrypt the wallet
992 2011-04-13 07:40:37 <purplezky> lfm: revelation about parity or implementing bitcoin named addresses ?
993 2011-04-13 07:40:43 <gjs278> when you open the program, unencrypt it for a few minutes, and then encrypt it back when you're done
994 2011-04-13 07:41:07 <gjs278> that's essentially all stupid encryption would do
995 2011-04-13 07:41:12 <cosurgi> I'm doing this. But they have windows. That stupid os.
996 2011-04-13 07:41:13 <lfm> <purplezky> whoa 1 BTC=1 bitcoin
997 2011-04-13 07:41:15 <sacarlson> cosurgi: there are many encryption packages to use to encrypt and decrypt files like pgp gpg that can be used to keep your walet.dat file safe
998 2011-04-13 07:41:19 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
999 2011-04-13 07:41:32 <gjs278> there are gpg guis for windows that let you do just simple password
1000 2011-04-13 07:41:38 <gjs278> no keys or anything complicated like that
1001 2011-04-13 07:41:38 <cosurgi> I'm using encrypted loopback device. They can't
1002 2011-04-13 07:42:16 <lfm> and thumb drives let you keep stuff on them passworded
1003 2011-04-13 07:42:18 <purplezky> gjs278: use truecrypt, create an encrypted partition, store your wallet in it
1004 2011-04-13 07:42:18 <cosurgi> besides I didn't use windows for 14 years, so I have no idea if there is anything fs-level that gives encryption. And that would be too complex for them anyway.
1005 2011-04-13 07:42:22 <gjs278> that's true
1006 2011-04-13 07:42:28 <gjs278> but installing truecrypt just for your wallet.dat
1007 2011-04-13 07:42:30 <gjs278> is a little overkill
1008 2011-04-13 07:42:49 <sacarlson> cosurgi: I setup a gpg encyption mechinism that works without user having to know the password that get's a password from the net that can be turned on and off, if your device is stolen if you don't want to remember the password
1009 2011-04-13 07:42:56 <gjs278> cosurgi if there was a program that would just encrypt the wallet.dat with a password, would they use it
1010 2011-04-13 07:43:16 <gjs278> it's not part of bitcoin itself though
1011 2011-04-13 07:43:34 <gjs278> it's just a dialog with a file select and a encrypt/decrypt option
1012 2011-04-13 07:43:39 <lfm> like the thumb drive
1013 2011-04-13 07:43:44 <sacarlson> cosurgi: I don't use windows I us ubuntu
1014 2011-04-13 07:43:46 <gjs278> yep
1015 2011-04-13 07:44:18 <lfm> theres lots of linux utilities and stuff for encrypting files too
1016 2011-04-13 07:45:45 <sacarlson> lfm: yes free good ones including gpg
1017 2011-04-13 07:46:02 <purplezky> they don't do backups, so i don't see them doing encryption. All banks use encryption devices external to a banking application, maybe we need a service like the yubikey, where a usb device generates a OneTimePass to access a wallet
1018 2011-04-13 07:47:05 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1019 2011-04-13 07:47:27 <sacarlson> purplezky: you can setup on ubuntu to have a partition ecrypted using the key from a usb so you could only access your wallet when the usb keys is pluged in
1020 2011-04-13 07:48:18 <gjs278> you should always setup a backup password on that though
1021 2011-04-13 07:48:26 <gjs278> otherwise if you use the flash drive you're screwed
1022 2011-04-13 07:48:30 <gjs278> lose*
1023 2011-04-13 07:48:31 <sacarlson> purplezky: the backup could still be done even when the partition was encrypted
1024 2011-04-13 07:49:06 necrodearia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1025 2011-04-13 07:49:10 slush1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1026 2011-04-13 07:49:16 <sacarlson> gjs278: I agree you keep a backup of the key offline to create a new key if the usb key fails
1027 2011-04-13 07:49:32 <purplezky> i was thinking more along the way of cloud based wallets with automated backup, encrypted with a two factor usb encryption devicce in possession of the wallet owner only
1028 2011-04-13 07:50:23 <sacarlson> purplezky: on ubuntu we have ubuntuone that is cloud based that you could use to store an encrypted walet
1029 2011-04-13 07:50:25 <gjs278> mtgox is selling coins at 96 cents right now
1030 2011-04-13 07:50:59 <sacarlson> gjs278: I have my sell on mtgox set to 1.23 hope it hits
1031 2011-04-13 07:51:10 limpingBobby_ has joined
1032 2011-04-13 07:51:22 <limpingBobby_> boo
1033 2011-04-13 07:51:56 <limpingBobby_> what is the purpose of pnseed?
1034 2011-04-13 07:53:49 <lfm> whats that from?
1035 2011-04-13 07:54:19 <limpingBobby_> net.cpp
1036 2011-04-13 07:57:58 Donald_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1043 2011-04-13 08:12:24 <maxlo> tcatm: i posted a patch for the systray. let me know :)
1044 2011-04-13 08:14:43 <fimp> what's the best way to get updated on new media coverage of bitcoin?
1045 2011-04-13 08:17:30 <sirius-m> http://twitter.com/search?q=bitcoin
1046 2011-04-13 08:18:12 <sirius-m> if you're ok with all the other crap from the feed :)
1047 2011-04-13 08:18:42 <fimp> thx, but yeah, not very filtered
1048 2011-04-13 08:20:03 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1049 2011-04-13 08:21:28 <topi`> damn, somebody has deleted the "cryptocurrency" article from wikipedia.
1050 2011-04-13 08:21:31 <topi`> nazis.
1051 2011-04-13 08:21:33 <gjs278> ll
1052 2011-04-13 08:21:41 <gjs278> wikipedia deletes all of the good articles
1053 2011-04-13 08:22:08 <gjs278> the worst part about wiki deletes is that you can't ever see the damn article
1054 2011-04-13 08:22:14 <gjs278> even a history on it or anything
1055 2011-04-13 08:22:23 stitekili has joined
1056 2011-04-13 08:22:32 <topi`> that's straight from Orwell's 1984
1057 2011-04-13 08:22:37 <gjs278> like when I wanted to see List Of Saw Traps one time for reference and a bunch of wiki editors decided it didn't have merit anymore
1058 2011-04-13 08:22:50 <gjs278> but they keep the lists that they love
1059 2011-04-13 08:22:51 <Blitzboom> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Cryptocurrency
1060 2011-04-13 08:23:01 <Blitzboom> "Neologism notable only for its association with a single project Chris Cunningham"
1061 2011-04-13 08:23:11 <limpingBobby_> anyone know the purpose of pnseed?
1062 2011-04-13 08:23:34 Donald_ has joined
1063 2011-04-13 08:25:35 <lfm> you mean pnSeed? thats a list of seed ip addresses for the net
1064 2011-04-13 08:25:36 necrodearia has joined
1065 2011-04-13 08:26:41 <lfm> limpingBobby_: its only used if the irc fails and you dont specifiy -connect on the command line
1066 2011-04-13 08:26:45 <limpingBobby_> k, so they are hex form of ip addrs?
1067 2011-04-13 08:27:05 <lfm> just 32 bit numbers ya
1068 2011-04-13 08:27:23 <limpingBobby_> and they represent peers currently connected?
1069 2011-04-13 08:27:32 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1070 2011-04-13 08:27:36 <lfm> so ipv4 addresses, ipv6 isnt supported
1071 2011-04-13 08:27:51 <limpingBobby_> ok
1072 2011-04-13 08:28:14 <lfm> limp they are nodes which al least at one time were known good and to accept incomming connects
1073 2011-04-13 08:29:01 <limpingBobby_> so they are hardcoded ip addrs of peers that were working at the time of "coding"
1074 2011-04-13 08:29:14 <limpingBobby_> ?
1075 2011-04-13 08:29:15 <lfm> thats the idea ya
1076 2011-04-13 08:29:26 <limpingBobby_> kk thanks
1077 2011-04-13 08:29:32 maxlo has left ()
1078 2011-04-13 08:29:42 <limpingBobby_> so i could run through that list now and there would be atleast one connected?
1079 2011-04-13 08:30:06 <lfm> I hope there should be a lot of em yes
1080 2011-04-13 08:30:28 <limpingBobby_> cheers thanks :)
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1092 2011-04-13 08:51:44 <topi`> krytzz: was it you who had a OMAP4 board? I just noticed that according to my calculations, my dual core Cortex-A9 is more efficient than ANY nvidia GPU, and is comparable to many Radeons at 1.14 Mhash/s/watt
1093 2011-04-13 08:52:28 <topi`> now I just need more arm cores! :D
1094 2011-04-13 08:53:02 <Diablo-D3> erm
1095 2011-04-13 08:53:11 <Diablo-D3> except radeon 5xxx are around 2 mhash/s/watt
1096 2011-04-13 08:53:21 <Diablo-D3> and art's magic chips are bove 4
1097 2011-04-13 08:53:22 <krytzz> topi`: yes
1098 2011-04-13 08:53:23 <Diablo-D3> *above
1099 2011-04-13 08:53:40 <topi`> indeed, but ARM core is publically licenseable, so it is "better" technology than Radeon cores ;)
1100 2011-04-13 08:54:07 <topi`> so I can build (if I am good enough) a chip with 64 ARM cores, and pay licenses to ARM inc :)
1101 2011-04-13 08:54:25 <lfm> topi not the sort of "better" you can bank on tho
1102 2011-04-13 08:54:35 <Diablo-D3> 64 arm cores?
1103 2011-04-13 08:54:37 <Diablo-D3> problem is
1104 2011-04-13 08:54:38 <topi`> lfm: "better" is fairly subjective a word :)
1105 2011-04-13 08:54:41 <Diablo-D3> its still a fraction of the speed of a 5970
1106 2011-04-13 08:54:54 <Diablo-D3> at a much larger fab size since you cant afford 45nm manuf
1107 2011-04-13 08:54:55 <Diablo-D3> NOW
1108 2011-04-13 08:54:55 <topi`> Diablo-D3: might be, but won't consume as much power :)
1109 2011-04-13 08:54:59 <Diablo-D3> if I was building a video card
1110 2011-04-13 08:55:09 <Diablo-D3> having a chip with like 256 arm cores on it
1111 2011-04-13 08:55:10 <Diablo-D3> would be lol
1112 2011-04-13 08:55:19 <topi`> I don't want a video card, I want a SMP system.
1113 2011-04-13 08:55:21 <krytzz> topi`: including NEON or not?
1114 2011-04-13 08:55:22 <Diablo-D3> since, essentially, it'd be forever compatible with all future specs
1115 2011-04-13 08:55:26 <Diablo-D3> since it'd all be driver driven
1116 2011-04-13 08:55:27 <topi`> ARM is a non-specialized CPU core.
1117 2011-04-13 08:55:34 <topi`> so you build servers, desktops etc with it.
1118 2011-04-13 08:55:40 <Diablo-D3> topi`: not true.
1119 2011-04-13 08:55:52 <Diablo-D3> the specialization is just more subtle.
1120 2011-04-13 08:55:56 <topi`> krytzz: I am betting to get 4x the speed of the 'C' algo with a properly optimized NEON code.
1121 2011-04-13 08:56:32 <topi`> Diablo-D3: it seems you are a big fan of GPGPU.
1122 2011-04-13 08:56:53 <topi`> they do have the massive memory bandwidth that is required for massive ops, but fall short on I/O
1123 2011-04-13 08:57:06 <Diablo-D3> seeing as I wrote a gpu miner?
1124 2011-04-13 08:57:08 <Diablo-D3> sure
1125 2011-04-13 08:57:36 <topi`> I had exactly this same discussion with my friend 15 years back, at that time I was pointing out that the TMOS Transputer would be a good option for a sidekick card on an Amiga computer.
1126 2011-04-13 08:57:40 <topi`> he laughed at me :)
1127 2011-04-13 08:57:58 <lfm> topi they do tend to have some massive i/o in the form of video output
1128 2011-04-13 08:58:13 <topi`> lfm: the bottleneck is the interaction between the host system and the GPU
1129 2011-04-13 08:58:52 <lfm> pcie is not much of a bottleneck at 16x it seems
1130 2011-04-13 08:59:43 <krytzz> topi`: so you only bet its efficient :)
1131 2011-04-13 08:59:50 <topi`> well, there are latencies as well. and then you need to actually program the GPU from the host side.
1132 2011-04-13 08:59:57 <krytzz> topi`: a shame i have no time to try a neon miner
1133 2011-04-13 09:00:04 <topi`> krytzz: indeed, maybe I need to show the code as a proof.
1134 2011-04-13 09:00:08 <genjix> yoyo topi`
1135 2011-04-13 09:00:13 <topi`> morning genjix :)
1136 2011-04-13 09:00:36 <krytzz> topi`: also there is a dsp on board which can be used
1137 2011-04-13 09:00:38 <topi`> genjix: I spent yesterday translating the wikipedia article on Bitcoin to Finnish :)
1138 2011-04-13 09:01:13 <ArtForz> massive cluster of arm cores = meh
1139 2011-04-13 09:01:13 <topi`> krytzz: I don't remember if the TI dsps are efficient at bit rotates
1140 2011-04-13 09:01:42 <krytzz> topi`: no idea, and there is the powervr sgx 540
1141 2011-04-13 09:01:43 <topi`> ArtForz: I would just want to do a ./configure && make -j64
1142 2011-04-13 09:01:44 <topi`> :)
1143 2011-04-13 09:01:48 <topi`> simple ideas, simple desires!
1144 2011-04-13 09:01:50 <genjix> nice.
1145 2011-04-13 09:02:12 <ArtForz> and it'd still be slow as fuck
1146 2011-04-13 09:02:28 <topi`> ArtForz: probably, since it's hard to do coherent SMP with high amounts of cores
1147 2011-04-13 09:02:41 <ArtForz> and you also need massive ram bandwidth
1148 2011-04-13 09:02:58 <genjix> but arm is efficient so it could work.
1149 2011-04-13 09:03:03 <ArtForz> unless you have several MB of on-chip caches
1150 2011-04-13 09:03:14 <topi`> well, I've profiled typical gcc runs and it seems that even meager 1MB local cache is enough to keep most of the mem footprint inside
1151 2011-04-13 09:03:43 <topi`> now, for me it's more important to do make -j64 than to run Bitcoin mining.
1152 2011-04-13 09:03:52 <topi`> and no video card can compile the linux kernel for me. end of discussion :D
1153 2011-04-13 09:03:57 <ArtForz> a 1MB cache isn't exactly tiny, especially if has dozens of ports
1154 2011-04-13 09:04:11 <lfm> topi`: thats 1MB PER CORE
1155 2011-04-13 09:04:20 <ArtForz> imo for such large clusters, NUMA makes more sense
1156 2011-04-13 09:04:34 <Diablo-D3> PER COOORREEEEWAAARRTGH
1157 2011-04-13 09:04:34 <ArtForz> implement cache coherency on top
1158 2011-04-13 09:04:37 <topi`> lfm: indeed. well, the trend nowadays is to throw a lot of transistors around :)
1159 2011-04-13 09:05:03 <slush> hi, how block exchange in bitcoin works? It is single threaded?
1160 2011-04-13 09:05:06 <ArtForz> well, one can afford to throw a lot of transistors around, on 45nm or smaller
1161 2011-04-13 09:05:16 <topi`> ArtForz: there are many ways to implement cache coherency, the simplest is to do a bus snoop and invalidate. won't eat many transistors :)
1162 2011-04-13 09:05:34 <ArtForz> you want a *shared bus* between 64 cores?
1163 2011-04-13 09:05:40 <topi`> yes.
1164 2011-04-13 09:05:42 <slush> When I have 100 peers and one has very bad line, does it affect distribution speed?
1165 2011-04-13 09:05:53 Donald_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1166 2011-04-13 09:05:54 <ArtForz> are you actively trying to make that thing slow as fuck?
1167 2011-04-13 09:06:23 <topi`> ArtForz: I'm just toying around in my mind, but maybe I would make a bad electrical engineer (that's why I never managed to graduate:)
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1171 2011-04-13 09:09:17 <ArtForz> what I'd like to see is wider on-cpu vector units
1172 2011-04-13 09:09:44 <gjs278> make -j64 wouldn't be that good for projects with less files too
1173 2011-04-13 09:10:15 <topi`> gjs278: there are many other ways to explore parallelism :) have you tried using OpenMP pragmas in your codes?
1174 2011-04-13 09:10:17 <ArtForz> 256 bits vector width for avx is neat, but still tiny compared to GPUs
1175 2011-04-13 09:10:23 <gjs278> nope
1176 2011-04-13 09:10:32 <krytzz> right, in automake projects most of the time configure runs :)
1177 2011-04-13 09:10:46 <gjs278> topi` if you're interested in parallelsm go make gpg threaded
1178 2011-04-13 09:10:49 <gjs278> that would be cool
1179 2011-04-13 09:10:57 <topi`> OpenMP makes trivial to extract parallelism from simple problems, even from mandelbrot generation ;)
1180 2011-04-13 09:10:59 <gjs278> it's such a bottleneck right now for when I encrypt my backups
1181 2011-04-13 09:11:12 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
1182 2011-04-13 09:11:36 <topi`> gjs278: I have this image in my mind that many cryptos actually depend on the previous output of the crypto so they cannot be parallelized (easily)
1183 2011-04-13 09:11:39 <gjs278> dm-crypt just got multithreaded but only in the sense that it will use separate cores to process separate files, it won't go super crazy with one file
1184 2011-04-13 09:11:50 <gjs278> truecrypt can get absurd aes speeds
1185 2011-04-13 09:12:16 da2ce7 has joined
1186 2011-04-13 09:12:18 <gjs278> especially if your processor has the aes extensions
1187 2011-04-13 09:12:32 <krytzz> gjs278: are you sure? i think dm-crypt uses all cpus here
1188 2011-04-13 09:12:37 <ArtForz> well, with hardware accel you could always get insane speed
1189 2011-04-13 09:12:49 <gjs278> when I rate it on one file I only saw 8% max
1190 2011-04-13 09:12:50 <krytzz> gjs278: IF you trust the intel aes implementation lol
1191 2011-04-13 09:12:55 <gjs278> well
1192 2011-04-13 09:13:15 <ArtForz> my old 1GHz epia could push > 1GB/sec AES128
1193 2011-04-13 09:13:24 <gjs278> if intel aes had a backdoor, they wouldnt waste it on me
1194 2011-04-13 09:14:08 cdecker has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1195 2011-04-13 09:14:26 <gjs278> for dm-crypt I only see 8% usage max when I try it on one file, but when I start doing multiple files I can see it using more cpu. whereas before multiple files never went past 8% period
1196 2011-04-13 09:14:39 <gjs278> on the old versions that weren't threaded
1197 2011-04-13 09:14:40 <krytzz> gjs278: i just tried dd if=/dev/zero of=testfile, i get 0% idle here
1198 2011-04-13 09:14:45 <gjs278> hmm
1199 2011-04-13 09:14:47 <gjs278> ok
1200 2011-04-13 09:14:49 <ArtForz> huh?
1201 2011-04-13 09:15:00 <gjs278> maybe I just don't have it setup right
1202 2011-04-13 09:15:18 <ArtForz> dm-crypt has been using one core per mapping for years here
1203 2011-04-13 09:15:25 <krytzz> hm
1204 2011-04-13 09:15:26 <gjs278> they recently added it
1205 2011-04-13 09:16:09 <gjs278> I'll try the dd test on a partition I have
1206 2011-04-13 09:16:29 <topi`> ArtForz: does the Epia have some hw acceleration for aes128? I tested my Core2duo with openssl speed benchmark, and aes128-cbc is mere 130M/sec
1207 2011-04-13 09:16:56 <ArtForz> yea
1208 2011-04-13 09:17:19 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
1209 2011-04-13 09:17:20 <gribble> 118148
1210 2011-04-13 09:17:32 <krytzz> jgarzik: do kill -USR1 on the dd process, so you can also see the throughput
1211 2011-04-13 09:17:36 <krytzz> jgarzik: sorry
1212 2011-04-13 09:17:40 <ArtForz> via >= c3 nehemiah onwards has hw aes accel
1213 2011-04-13 09:17:40 <krytzz> gjs278: ment you
1214 2011-04-13 09:17:43 rli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1215 2011-04-13 09:17:55 <gjs278> I'll check iotop
1216 2011-04-13 09:18:47 rli has joined
1217 2011-04-13 09:20:01 <gjs278> 2689821184 bytes (2.7 GB) copied, 13.6794 s, 197 MB/s
1218 2011-04-13 09:20:06 <gjs278> didn't see it go past 8%
1219 2011-04-13 09:20:17 <gjs278> but that may just be the hd I tested it on bottlenecking it really hard
1220 2011-04-13 09:20:47 <krytzz> well 197mb/s is good
1221 2011-04-13 09:21:29 <lfm> faster than I can do it by hand
1222 2011-04-13 09:23:21 <gjs278> I turned on some better xfs options for the partiton
1223 2011-04-13 09:23:31 <gjs278> got 474mb/s for a 2gb file
1224 2011-04-13 09:23:41 <krytzz> what are your harddrives?
1225 2011-04-13 09:23:59 <gjs278> the xfs always screws with any transfer reading
1226 2011-04-13 09:24:03 <krytzz> 474mb/s is probably hdd cache or something... cant be that fast
1227 2011-04-13 09:24:13 <gjs278> yeah
1228 2011-04-13 09:24:19 <gjs278> I'll do a 20gb file and see for real
1229 2011-04-13 09:24:31 <krytzz> well at least your cpu is faster than your harddrive
1230 2011-04-13 09:24:37 <krytzz> so nothing to worry
1231 2011-04-13 09:25:05 <gjs278> gpg defintely bottlenecks me hard though
1232 2011-04-13 09:25:14 <gjs278> I can't get anything past 40mb/s with gpg working on it with just aes
1233 2011-04-13 09:25:25 <krytzz> then use dm-crypt :p
1234 2011-04-13 09:26:28 <gjs278> as long as gparted can use it sure
1235 2011-04-13 09:26:35 <gjs278> that's what I use for system rescue/backup restore
1236 2011-04-13 09:28:07 <krytzz> no idea i use cli tools but dm-crypt is old so it should be there in gparted
1237 2011-04-13 09:28:21 cenuij has joined
1238 2011-04-13 09:29:04 <ArtForz> btw, with a decent md-raid setup thats not *too* crazy
1239 2011-04-13 09:29:36 <krytzz> but you would need 4 drives striped
1240 2011-04-13 09:29:38 <gjs278> 13415382016 bytes (13 GB) copied, 150.365 s, 89.2 MB/s
1241 2011-04-13 09:29:44 <gjs278> definitely the hd bottleing at that point
1242 2011-04-13 09:29:56 <krytzz> yeah that looks like a hd throughput :)
1243 2011-04-13 09:30:13 <ArtForz> 6-disk raid6 300MB/s linear read
1244 2011-04-13 09:30:26 <krytzz> well ok
1245 2011-04-13 09:30:36 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
1246 2011-04-13 09:30:36 <gjs278> 2 f40's in raid0 I hit 500mb/s read when doing a multithreaded gzip dump
1247 2011-04-13 09:30:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118148 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 795 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 18 hours, 23 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 92560.54309174
1248 2011-04-13 09:31:04 <ArtForz> dm-crypt aes256 on top, 237MB/s
1249 2011-04-13 09:32:01 <ArtForz> ext4 on lvm2 on top of that, 189MB/s read
1250 2011-04-13 09:32:16 <gjs278> doing a truecrypt bench atm
1251 2011-04-13 09:32:34 <gjs278> lol 72C
1252 2011-04-13 09:32:46 <gjs278> http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6164/screenshotov.png
1253 2011-04-13 09:32:50 <krytzz> yeah i also have dm-crypt - lvm - ext4
1254 2011-04-13 09:33:05 <gjs278> I go xfs on everything
1255 2011-04-13 09:33:16 <gjs278> the price I pay is that sometimes a file gets zeroed out
1256 2011-04-13 09:33:28 <gjs278> if I crash and cant REISUB it
1257 2011-04-13 09:35:07 <ArtForz> I didnt bother to try to optimize anything, bottleneck is GigE anyways
1258 2011-04-13 09:35:23 danbri has joined
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1260 2011-04-13 09:36:00 robblesz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1261 2011-04-13 09:36:21 <gjs278> my life is nothing but a series of benchmarks
1262 2011-04-13 09:36:51 <ArtForz> 167MB/s or so with 2 ganged ports
1263 2011-04-13 09:38:00 <gjs278> newegg just gave me a 20% off case fans promo code and both gentle typhoons are out of stock
1264 2011-04-13 09:38:10 <ArtForz> lol
1265 2011-04-13 09:38:33 <gjs278> I told it to autonotify but I don't think they're coming back anytime soon
1266 2011-04-13 09:39:36 <gjs278> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=11-998-121 this is the highest rated 120 fan... I am disappoint
1267 2011-04-13 09:39:47 <gjs278> well highest reviewed at least
1268 2011-04-13 09:39:57 <ArtForz> lol
1269 2011-04-13 09:40:17 <gjs278> I cant see why anyone wants an led fan
1270 2011-04-13 09:40:31 <Blitzboom> blue leds make your computer faster
1271 2011-04-13 09:40:57 <krytzz> its like the people who put spoilers on their cars and stuff :p
1272 2011-04-13 09:41:13 <gjs278> I'm going to end up with those tan brown noctua fans I think
1273 2011-04-13 09:41:20 <gjs278> at least they won't blind me
1274 2011-04-13 09:42:41 limpingBobby_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1275 2011-04-13 09:45:28 <UukGoblin> the fact that we're burning so much energy to keep bitcoin up worries me
1276 2011-04-13 09:45:51 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1277 2011-04-13 09:46:28 <sipa> the amount of (economically viable) energe spent on bitcoin mining daily is 7200 BTC * USD_per_BTC / UDF_per_kWh
1278 2011-04-13 09:46:31 <sipa> *USD
1279 2011-04-13 09:46:47 <ArtForz> sipa: yup
1280 2011-04-13 09:47:34 <gjs278> nobody is really forcing us to blow all of this
1281 2011-04-13 09:47:50 <gjs278> we could stop block mining right now and just run clients to handle transactions
1282 2011-04-13 09:48:03 <ArtForz> no you couldnt
1283 2011-04-13 09:48:13 <sipa> so the result is something of unit kWh/day, so multiply with 24000 and you get W
1284 2011-04-13 09:48:15 <gjs278> does block mining handle the transactions
1285 2011-04-13 09:48:36 <sipa> it's necessary for ordering them
1286 2011-04-13 09:48:39 <ArtForz> yep
1287 2011-04-13 09:48:40 <gjs278> well I mean
1288 2011-04-13 09:48:44 <gjs278> do we really need
1289 2011-04-13 09:48:50 <gjs278> 200ghash going
1290 2011-04-13 09:48:53 <sipa> yes
1291 2011-04-13 09:49:00 <sipa> and a lot more
1292 2011-04-13 09:49:01 <ArtForz> it decides which of multiple tx try to spend the same input "wins"
1293 2011-04-13 09:49:11 <ArtForz> more = better
1294 2011-04-13 09:49:20 <sipa> more hashing power = safer network
1295 2011-04-13 09:49:48 <BlueMatt> ie protection from double-spend and other similar network attacks
1296 2011-04-13 09:49:49 <gjs278> only to keep someone from getting 50%
1297 2011-04-13 09:49:54 <ArtForz> yes
1298 2011-04-13 09:50:13 <BlueMatt> currently, it is easy for someone with large resources to get 50% (see: MM)
1299 2011-04-13 09:50:15 <gjs278> I guess that's true then, don't want some guy taking over the network
1300 2011-04-13 09:50:20 <ArtForz> yep
1301 2011-04-13 09:50:22 <gjs278> mm?
1302 2011-04-13 09:50:27 <ArtForz> MM had 350~400Gh/s
1303 2011-04-13 09:50:34 <gjs278> what was he using
1304 2011-04-13 09:50:39 <sipa> probably a botnet
1305 2011-04-13 09:50:52 <ArtForz> no one knows, thats why we called it the mystery miner
1306 2011-04-13 09:51:08 <UukGoblin> is he back?
1307 2011-04-13 09:51:15 <ArtForz> doesnt look like it
1308 2011-04-13 09:51:15 <da2ce7> (well some people know, it just isn't us)
1309 2011-04-13 09:51:20 <gjs278> is that why the difficulty got screwed up before
1310 2011-04-13 09:51:23 <sipa> yes
1311 2011-04-13 09:51:26 <gjs278> lol
1312 2011-04-13 09:51:26 <ArtForz> yea
1313 2011-04-13 09:51:34 <sipa> the big peak here: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png
1314 2011-04-13 09:51:39 <gjs278> well... cool at least he stopped
1315 2011-04-13 09:51:41 <sipa> around march 7th
1316 2011-04-13 09:51:53 <da2ce7> shittttt.
1317 2011-04-13 09:52:00 <ArtForz> see http://bitcoin.atspace.com/mysteryminer.html
1318 2011-04-13 09:52:05 <sipa> but difficulty is now higher than it was after MM's intervention
1319 2011-04-13 09:52:11 <UukGoblin> sipa, looks like we're peaking to around as much just now
1320 2011-04-13 09:52:12 <ArtForz> yea
1321 2011-04-13 09:52:18 <gjs278> did he transfer all of the coins to one address
1322 2011-04-13 09:52:26 <gjs278> or what did he even do with them
1323 2011-04-13 09:52:28 <ArtForz> yea
1324 2011-04-13 09:52:45 <sipa> UukGoblin: don't think so (yet)
1325 2011-04-13 09:52:50 <ArtForz> http://blockexplorer.com/a/eE8FVTkbx
1326 2011-04-13 09:52:52 <sipa> there is a lot of random variation
1327 2011-04-13 09:53:00 <gjs278> wow
1328 2011-04-13 09:53:20 <UukGoblin> there is indeed
1329 2011-04-13 09:53:32 <UukGoblin> but we're going up clearly ;-]
1330 2011-04-13 09:54:05 <gjs278> people on forums are constantly discouraging new people from joining in on the mining
1331 2011-04-13 09:54:23 <gjs278> whenever someone asks about buying like a 5870, the response is always don't bother, too late, etc
1332 2011-04-13 09:54:32 <BlueMatt> I hate that
1333 2011-04-13 09:54:33 <gjs278> just trying to keep all of the blocks for themselves
1334 2011-04-13 09:54:43 <ArtForz> well, because if difficulty keeps growing like that, it'll never pay off
1335 2011-04-13 09:54:47 <BlueMatt> see: my thread on "donating" miners
1336 2011-04-13 09:54:48 knotwork has joined
1337 2011-04-13 09:54:51 <ArtForz> just do the math yourself
1338 2011-04-13 09:55:02 <gjs278> in about 3 weeks I made up 1/3rd of the card value
1339 2011-04-13 09:55:06 <sipa> when i started mining in januari, i did the calculation
1340 2011-04-13 09:55:16 <sipa> i never expected difficulty to rise so quickly
1341 2011-04-13 09:55:20 <BlueMatt> yea, but some people donate to the mining power to help support the network
1342 2011-04-13 09:55:31 <sipa> but neither did i expect the price to rise so quickly
1343 2011-04-13 09:55:32 <BlueMatt> plus some people already have the gpus
1344 2011-04-13 09:55:41 <gjs278> yeah what about the price rising
1345 2011-04-13 09:55:46 <gjs278> right now it's back to $1
1346 2011-04-13 09:56:11 <sipa> people have found correlation between price and hash power, with a few weeks delay
1347 2011-04-13 09:56:31 <lfm> loose corelation
1348 2011-04-13 09:56:38 <gjs278> I have enough faith in the project and market that I won't be cashing out anytime soon
1349 2011-04-13 09:56:45 <TD> didn't somebody announce they wanted to buy 200k coins at $2 a piece?
1350 2011-04-13 09:56:49 <BlueMatt> sipa: for obvious reasons
1351 2011-04-13 09:56:49 <TD> perhaps they are pushing up the prices
1352 2011-04-13 09:56:56 <gjs278> I doubt that guy was legit
1353 2011-04-13 09:56:57 <BlueMatt> TD: it was fake
1354 2011-04-13 09:57:08 <BlueMatt> there have been several fake "Ill buy x coins for y" recently
1355 2011-04-13 09:57:13 <gjs278> if he wanted coins at $2 a piece, he could have easily done it without saying anything
1356 2011-04-13 09:57:33 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1357 2011-04-13 09:57:39 taco_the_paco has joined
1358 2011-04-13 09:57:47 <TD> ok
1359 2011-04-13 09:57:54 <TD> how do you know it was fake?
1360 2011-04-13 09:57:54 <gjs278> at $2 people would be dumping them left and right
1361 2011-04-13 09:58:11 <BlueMatt> afaik, no one has ever mentioned it went through
1362 2011-04-13 09:58:46 <gjs278> I'm just assuming it's fake because anyone with 200k would be smart enough to realize he could get the coins two days ago for like 75 cents each
1363 2011-04-13 09:58:47 <BlueMatt> thought it could have been done without publicity
1364 2011-04-13 09:59:03 <gjs278> and just buying them a couple thousand at a time
1365 2011-04-13 09:59:07 <gjs278> would obviously be better
1366 2011-04-13 09:59:16 <gjs278> than putting a $2 buy it now on mtgox
1367 2011-04-13 10:00:18 <gjs278> in the short term the guy would lose ridiculous amounts of money on that investment
1368 2011-04-13 10:00:48 <da2ce7> depends on what he was intending to do.
1369 2011-04-13 10:00:54 <gjs278> I'm assuming he wanted the coins just to hold onto them in case they ever became really valuable
1370 2011-04-13 10:01:01 <da2ce7> He said that he was wanting to use VC
1371 2011-04-13 10:01:12 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1372 2011-04-13 10:01:35 <da2ce7> but 200k is very small for VC
1373 2011-04-13 10:01:37 <gjs278> it's not even a good form of vc really...
1374 2011-04-13 10:02:09 <gjs278> anyone using it for vc would obviously have to cash it out right away
1375 2011-04-13 10:02:10 <da2ce7> but if he was planning to open an extange or something like that...
1376 2011-04-13 10:03:09 <da2ce7> and already has say 200K BTC, maybe sending the market positive price signals would be in your intrest.
1377 2011-04-13 10:03:27 genjix has joined
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1379 2011-04-13 10:03:28 genjix has joined
1380 2011-04-13 10:05:34 mbarkhau has joined
1381 2011-04-13 10:06:13 <mbarkhau> hello
1382 2011-04-13 10:06:23 <lfm> hi
1383 2011-04-13 10:06:27 <BurtyB> ho
1384 2011-04-13 10:06:44 <sipa> vc?
1385 2011-04-13 10:06:47 <mbarkhau> is it true that the bitcoin client only accepts requests with correct username and password http://user:password@127.0.0.1:8332
1386 2011-04-13 10:06:52 <mbarkhau> ?
1387 2011-04-13 10:07:00 <mrb_> woot, looks like we are currently peaking at just about 1 Thash/s
1388 2011-04-13 10:07:19 <lfm> mbarkhau: ya it should
1389 2011-04-13 10:07:38 <mbarkhau> but then it has complete access to the client
1390 2011-04-13 10:07:48 <sipa> to all rpc calls, yes
1391 2011-04-13 10:07:50 <lfm> pretty much
1392 2011-04-13 10:08:14 <mbarkhau> wouldn't it be better to allow anonymous requests that can be acknowledged in the client?
1393 2011-04-13 10:08:32 <sipa> damn, i'll need to adjust my graphs if we go over 1GH/s :(
1394 2011-04-13 10:08:34 <mbarkhau> another app makes a request to send x btc to addr
1395 2011-04-13 10:08:56 <mbarkhau> and the user can accept that transaction in the client
1396 2011-04-13 10:09:07 <lfm> mbarkhau: um thats exactly the sort of request youd want a password for
1397 2011-04-13 10:09:31 <lfm> mbarkhau: oh you dont need to acces the client to RECEIVE money
1398 2011-04-13 10:09:57 <mbarkhau> no but I may not want to give another app total access to my wallet
1399 2011-04-13 10:10:04 <gjs278> you don't even accept tranfers, they're just yours
1400 2011-04-13 10:10:16 <gjs278> you can always give it back though
1401 2011-04-13 10:10:42 <lfm> mbarkhau: well spending money is exactly the sort of thing you want a password for
1402 2011-04-13 10:11:21 <mbarkhau> maybe i'm not being clear
1403 2011-04-13 10:12:06 <mbarkhau> i would like to write an app that can ask for a transaction to be made, but it is not actually made until the user accepts it in the bitcoin client
1404 2011-04-13 10:12:18 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1405 2011-04-13 10:12:28 <mbarkhau> why would i need a password for that?
1406 2011-04-13 10:12:52 <lfm> mbarkhau: thats not supported. youd need a new intermediary to do that
1407 2011-04-13 10:12:58 <gjs278> how are you going to make the request
1408 2011-04-13 10:13:21 <gjs278> bitcoin client doesn't have such a feature as of yet... so not sure how you'd send it in
1409 2011-04-13 10:14:00 Kay_ has joined
1410 2011-04-13 10:14:02 <mbarkhau> gjs278: then i guess this is a feature request...
1411 2011-04-13 10:14:08 <gjs278> eh
1412 2011-04-13 10:14:16 <gjs278> it's a little complicated for a feature request
1413 2011-04-13 10:14:36 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1414 2011-04-13 10:14:40 <gjs278> are you basically using it like a way to send people bills
1415 2011-04-13 10:14:53 <da2ce7> sipa, venture capital
1416 2011-04-13 10:14:53 <gjs278> like you request the 50 coins from them, and they can just hit okay in their client and pay up
1417 2011-04-13 10:15:09 <lfm> better to do it as a separate program that accepts requests and then asks for ok then subits the txn to bitcoin with the password.
1418 2011-04-13 10:15:16 <Kay_> hi guys, i am trying to run Bitcoin on my mac and keep getting an error: "locale 'en_ZA' could not be set". any chance i could get help? searched but havent found anything.
1419 2011-04-13 10:15:42 <mbarkhau> gjs278: that would be one usage
1420 2011-04-13 10:16:17 <mbarkhau> i am thinking about writing an app and don't want the user to have give access to their entire wallet
1421 2011-04-13 10:16:21 <gjs278> do you have local access to the machine that will be getting the requests
1422 2011-04-13 10:16:24 <gjs278> like
1423 2011-04-13 10:16:27 <gjs278> the wallet.dat is on the computer
1424 2011-04-13 10:16:35 <lfm> isolate the password knowing to the special intermeiadat program
1425 2011-04-13 10:16:42 <gjs278> you could just avoid the protocol altogether
1426 2011-04-13 10:16:47 <gjs278> and write like a request.txt file to the datadir
1427 2011-04-13 10:16:48 NickelBot has joined
1428 2011-04-13 10:16:49 <mbarkhau> gjs278: ha, ok thats true
1429 2011-04-13 10:16:52 <gjs278> and code in support for that in bitcoin
1430 2011-04-13 10:17:14 <gjs278> like poll for request.txt, and if it pops up, do the queued transaction
1431 2011-04-13 10:17:42 <gjs278> no need to really mess with anonymous support in the protocol if you're local, over a network different issue I guess
1432 2011-04-13 10:17:42 <lfm> you want to tell the requester program if it was accepted tho dont you?
1433 2011-04-13 10:18:22 <mbarkhau> gjs278: on the other hand then it would be specific to the bitcoin client
1434 2011-04-13 10:18:23 <gjs278> mark the request.txt in a way that indicates it is complete
1435 2011-04-13 10:18:34 <sipa> why would you do so? just send the request through json?
1436 2011-04-13 10:18:44 <gjs278> he wants to avoid using his password
1437 2011-04-13 10:18:46 <sipa> *rpc
1438 2011-04-13 10:18:48 <lfm> sipa read back
1439 2011-04-13 10:18:50 <gjs278> so the json request would fail
1440 2011-04-13 10:19:24 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1441 2011-04-13 10:19:34 knotwork has joined
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1443 2011-04-13 10:19:55 <lfm> I still think its better to do it as a separate program that accepts requests and then asks for ok then submits the txn to bitcoin with the password.
1444 2011-04-13 10:20:06 <gjs278> oh yeah
1445 2011-04-13 10:20:16 <gjs278> that does make more sense
1446 2011-04-13 10:20:25 <gjs278> no need to touch bitcoin then
1447 2011-04-13 10:20:31 <lfm> right
1448 2011-04-13 10:21:18 <mbarkhau> lfm: i guess that would work
1449 2011-04-13 10:21:55 <gjs278> what do you plan on making with it
1450 2011-04-13 10:22:11 <mbarkhau> gjs278: top secret ;)
1451 2011-04-13 10:22:40 <gjs278> lol
1452 2011-04-13 10:22:46 <gjs278> are you going to opensource it
1453 2011-04-13 10:24:10 <mbarkhau> gjs278: i would say so yes
1454 2011-04-13 10:24:30 <lfm> also anyone in the same user account can read the username/password from ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.config
1455 2011-04-13 10:24:56 <gjs278> that's why the plan is only slightly flawed
1456 2011-04-13 10:25:53 <mbarkhau> lfm: yes I just realized that pretty much makes my whole concern muted by another concern
1457 2011-04-13 10:26:02 <lfm> hehe
1458 2011-04-13 10:30:42 <sacarlson> that json method of transaction if done over wan isn't the username:password visable though your ISP?
1459 2011-04-13 10:31:09 <gjs278> yeah
1460 2011-04-13 10:31:26 <gjs278> your isp also has your irc password at the moment, expect to be ghosted in 5 minutes
1461 2011-04-13 10:31:29 <sacarlson> gjs278: so I guess only ment to be used to localhost?
1462 2011-04-13 10:31:47 <sipa> there's rpc-ssl
1463 2011-04-13 10:32:34 <sacarlson> gjs278: why are you running the irc server box?
1464 2011-04-13 10:32:51 <gjs278> of course not
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1468 2011-04-13 10:33:50 <sacarlson> gjs278: well I would think to see the user:pass would require access from the ISP or at the end of the transaction of the server box
1469 2011-04-13 10:35:33 <sacarlson> I run a very small ISP and I sometimes monitor trafic with wireshark, I wonder how many other ISP techs do the same
1470 2011-04-13 10:36:09 <gjs278> not cool
1471 2011-04-13 10:36:12 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: you are a douche
1472 2011-04-13 10:36:57 <da2ce7> traffice is clear anyway, if your isp isn't looking at you, then sombody else it.
1473 2011-04-13 10:37:09 <sacarlson> gjs278: I have to test the network to verify what's broken, I get complaints from users and I need to find the problem and I just use the tools that are available
1474 2011-04-13 10:37:20 <gjs278> well
1475 2011-04-13 10:37:24 <gjs278> that's a little different
1476 2011-04-13 10:37:38 <gjs278> I can imagine every isp tech would do the same if they were debugging something
1477 2011-04-13 10:37:45 <sacarlson> gjs278: but in doing so I also see what is visable to the eye
1478 2011-04-13 10:38:13 <gjs278> I'm sure a glance at it is nothing more than youtube and facebook traffic
1479 2011-04-13 10:38:25 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: ever heard of the wireshark search bar (the big one at the top)
1480 2011-04-13 10:38:52 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: you mean the filters? I use those at times
1481 2011-04-13 10:39:04 <BlueMatt> so then why do you see what people are doing
1482 2011-04-13 10:39:08 <gjs278> wireshark revealed how easy it is to fake a minecraft auth server
1483 2011-04-13 10:39:10 <BlueMatt> aside from the person with the problem of course
1484 2011-04-13 10:39:13 <gjs278> filter out 80
1485 2011-04-13 10:39:14 <gjs278> or
1486 2011-04-13 10:39:19 <gjs278> filter only the ip you want
1487 2011-04-13 10:39:23 <gjs278> and then your spying problems go away
1488 2011-04-13 10:39:38 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I can monitor just dns lookup so I can see where they attempted to go
1489 2011-04-13 10:39:48 <BlueMatt> gjs278: there is a difference between reverse engineering your stuff and watching what people are doing
1490 2011-04-13 10:39:54 <da2ce7> or just run tor and only conenct to your web-proxy throogh your own private hidden service.
1491 2011-04-13 10:39:57 <gjs278> yeah I know
1492 2011-04-13 10:40:04 <gjs278> but that's the only time I ever used wireshark really
1493 2011-04-13 10:40:18 <BlueMatt> I use it to diagnose problems all the time
1494 2011-04-13 10:40:29 * da2ce7 uses wireshark to fucking debug stupid network printers.
1495 2011-04-13 10:40:33 <gjs278> "reverse engineering" in minecrafts case was just an md5 sum that you can return and it will be accepted everytime
1496 2011-04-13 10:40:47 <BlueMatt> lol what a fail
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1498 2011-04-13 10:41:48 <sacarlson> and I've also seen that wireshark works well at monitoring wifi networks in the same maner
1499 2011-04-13 10:43:38 <BlueMatt> speaking of debugging, anyone ever heard of bind returning crap after looking up dns from servers that it should never bu using to resolve? even dig +trace works fine as does dnstrace
1500 2011-04-13 10:43:40 <sacarlson> the point is that this json method should not be used on the wan or wifi am I correct?
1501 2011-04-13 10:43:44 Sonihr has joined
1502 2011-04-13 10:43:50 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: yep
1503 2011-04-13 10:44:13 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: really, it should just be listening on localhost
1504 2011-04-13 10:45:02 <BlueMatt> Though, I run mine through a lighttpd proxy which handles auth and https and then only that server is allowed to connect to rpc
1505 2011-04-13 10:45:23 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: that's what I was thinking, I guess it could work ok on a switched lan network but it could still be mestup if someone tried to spoof an ip address
1506 2011-04-13 10:46:31 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: yea, but mine are one one central server (vm host) and only it is allowed on my dmz network, then the router handles permissions before passing it on to a separate network for bitcoin
1507 2011-04-13 10:46:45 <BlueMatt> which is just the router and bitcoind host
1508 2011-04-13 10:47:31 <BlueMatt> yea could be exploited but I also have a separate savings wallet so
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1512 2011-04-13 11:00:17 <topi`> how do you query the current difficulty using json?
1513 2011-04-13 11:00:42 <topi`> supposedly somebody runs a server somewhere:)
1514 2011-04-13 11:00:52 <sipa> getinfo
1515 2011-04-13 11:00:59 <sipa> ;;bc,diff
1516 2011-04-13 11:00:59 <gribble> 82347.22294654
1517 2011-04-13 11:01:59 <topi`> ok, but the bot has to know it from somewhere.
1518 2011-04-13 11:02:52 <lfm> topi`: ya, the bot gets it from bitcoin
1519 2011-04-13 11:03:01 <sipa> hmm, or from blockexplorer
1520 2011-04-13 11:03:17 <topi`> i just want to create a quick python script that just says import json and then creates a relevant json query
1521 2011-04-13 11:04:20 <lfm> and blockexplorer gets it from bitcoin too
1522 2011-04-13 11:05:54 <sipa> yes
1523 2011-04-13 11:06:17 <topi`> i'm not a javascript guru, is it possible to assign the output of a http request to a variable?
1524 2011-04-13 11:06:28 <topi`> in this case, the value from blockexplorer.com/q/getdifficulty
1525 2011-04-13 11:06:40 <sipa> definitely - though i don't know how
1526 2011-04-13 11:06:51 <gjs278> topi` I know how to do it with jquery
1527 2011-04-13 11:06:53 <gjs278> and .load
1528 2011-04-13 11:07:11 <topi`> gjs278: yep, but then I need to find an address to send the relevant jquery to.
1529 2011-04-13 11:07:25 <topi`> I just want to get the difficulty for my poor btc calculator :D
1530 2011-04-13 11:07:48 <gjs278> well
1531 2011-04-13 11:08:08 <gjs278> you could always get the current difficulty on your end
1532 2011-04-13 11:08:26 <gjs278> like you fetch the value with php/python and hardcode it into the script as a var
1533 2011-04-13 11:08:55 <gjs278> if you want to stick with pure javascript though, you run into crossdomain issues
1534 2011-04-13 11:09:08 <gjs278> as in, you can't fetch the contents of a website outside of your domain using javascript
1535 2011-04-13 11:09:45 Poopsie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1536 2011-04-13 11:10:04 <gjs278> so doing something like jquery.get('blockexplorer.com') is impossible unless you are currently hosting that code on blockexplorer.com itself
1537 2011-04-13 11:10:55 <topi`> yeah
1538 2011-04-13 11:10:58 Poopsie has joined
1539 2011-04-13 11:11:11 <topi`> i'll just do it in python json ...but then I need a source for that json data
1540 2011-04-13 11:11:46 <gjs278> well if you have bitcoind running you can get it from there, but using http://blockexplorer.com/q/getdifficulty is fine
1541 2011-04-13 11:11:56 <gjs278> just grab the contents and store it as a variable in python
1542 2011-04-13 11:12:08 <gjs278> no json required
1543 2011-04-13 11:12:21 <topi`> yeah, i'll just do a urllib.urlopen
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1547 2011-04-13 11:26:41 <topi`> ok, it works in a way now.
1548 2011-04-13 11:26:42 <topi`> http://lorelei.kaverit.org/cgi/calc.py
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1550 2011-04-13 11:31:40 Sonihr has joined
1551 2011-04-13 11:33:18 <topi`> I hope there would be a way for new users to find out whether or not they want to mine because it might not be very profitable, unless you don't pay your own electricity :)
1552 2011-04-13 11:33:52 <topi`> I would like to create a drop-down list of different countries so that an estimate of cost of elec could be made quickly
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1564 2011-04-13 12:34:03 angry has joined
1565 2011-04-13 12:35:23 <angry> been minning for 3 days now, no stop with 2 6990.... hit nothing. is anyone finding it hard too?
1566 2011-04-13 12:35:26 tabsa has joined
1567 2011-04-13 12:36:19 <angry> is it a scam?
1568 2011-04-13 12:36:47 <mtrlt> how many Mhps do you get
1569 2011-04-13 12:36:47 <angry> soo much for chat
1570 2011-04-13 12:36:54 <angry> 1.3
1571 2011-04-13 12:36:56 <BlueMatt> angry: RTFM, it is not and never has been designed for making money
1572 2011-04-13 12:37:05 <mtrlt> 1.3 megahashes per second?
1573 2011-04-13 12:37:19 <angry> errr yeah
1574 2011-04-13 12:37:29 <angry> hold on....
1575 2011-04-13 12:37:31 <mtrlt> should be 1300 if you really are using two 6990s
1576 2011-04-13 12:37:49 <angry> well i get like, 304,000 khs
1577 2011-04-13 12:37:53 <angry> on each core
1578 2011-04-13 12:37:59 <mtrlt> ;;bc,gen 1200000
1579 2011-04-13 12:38:00 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 14.657374147 BTC per day and 0.610723922792 BTC per hour.
1580 2011-04-13 12:38:26 jackmcbarn has joined
1581 2011-04-13 12:38:31 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 1200000
1582 2011-04-13 12:38:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 3 days, 9 hours, 52 minutes, and 12 seconds
1583 2011-04-13 12:38:39 <mtrlt> yeah, that one.
1584 2011-04-13 12:38:40 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 1200000 3d
1585 2011-04-13 12:38:40 <gribble> 0.584985761135
1586 2011-04-13 12:38:46 <BlueMatt> angry: please RTFM
1587 2011-04-13 12:38:47 <sipa> angry: nothing unlikely yet
1588 2011-04-13 12:38:58 <angry> i also hooked up another rig just now, with a 6890(i think)
1589 2011-04-13 12:39:08 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 1200000 7d
1590 2011-04-13 12:39:09 <gribble> 0.871526469036
1591 2011-04-13 12:39:12 <mtrlt> good look with that then :P
1592 2011-04-13 12:39:13 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 1200000 14d
1593 2011-04-13 12:39:13 <angry> rtfm?
1594 2011-04-13 12:39:14 <gribble> 0.983494551842
1595 2011-04-13 12:39:37 <sipa> angry: when you reach 2 weeks, you have 98% chance of having found at least one block
1596 2011-04-13 12:39:43 <sipa> angry: but 3 days... very possible
1597 2011-04-13 12:40:23 <angry> hhmmm lets hope so(its hard sleeping at night with all that noise
1598 2011-04-13 12:41:04 <angry> i would join a pool but i wanna try by myself
1599 2011-04-13 12:41:05 <mtrlt> earplugs?
1600 2011-04-13 12:41:14 <mtrlt> or whatever they're called.
1601 2011-04-13 12:41:25 <angry> hhmm ear plugs
1602 2011-04-13 12:41:56 <angry> its a very low frequancy hummy sound
1603 2011-04-13 12:42:35 <BlueMatt> angry: sorry, I thought you were one of the douches who comes on and says "why am I not making my free money yet?"
1604 2011-04-13 12:43:00 <angry> and unix sucks, i cant even reduce memory clock
1605 2011-04-13 12:43:01 <angry> np
1606 2011-04-13 12:43:04 <BlueMatt> they do get quite anoying
1607 2011-04-13 12:43:20 <sipa> angry: anyway, i'm mining at 1.3GH/s, and haven't found something in a week
1608 2011-04-13 12:43:40 <sipa> the week before that, i had 5 blocks
1609 2011-04-13 12:43:53 <angry> wow rich man
1610 2011-04-13 12:44:03 <angry> or woman, im not judging
1611 2011-04-13 12:44:07 <sipa> man :)
1612 2011-04-13 12:44:26 <angry> i dont like that smile, but whateva
1613 2011-04-13 12:44:26 <angry> lol
1614 2011-04-13 12:44:29 FellowTraveler1 has joined
1615 2011-04-13 12:44:39 <sipa> started mining in januari
1616 2011-04-13 12:44:50 <sipa> haven't earned enough to repay the hardware yet :)
1617 2011-04-13 12:44:50 <mtrlt> i've found 3 blocks in a bit over a week @ 275Mhps but i'm in a pool so i've gotten like 29 BTC :S
1618 2011-04-13 12:45:04 <angry> alright... i only stumbled onto this last week
1619 2011-04-13 12:45:57 <angry> im looking to (hoping to) make my investment back in 3 months
1620 2011-04-13 12:46:08 <angry> but might soon go on a pool
1621 2011-04-13 12:46:43 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1622 2011-04-13 12:47:05 <angry> plus my voltage reading doesnt look good, something like 910
1623 2011-04-13 12:48:07 FellowTraveler has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1624 2011-04-13 12:48:52 <BlueMatt> yea the video card mfgs really need to step up the linux support, though I guess they have no reason to as long as there arent that many games for it
1625 2011-04-13 12:49:03 <angry> i think im just going to start begging for coins from people online, or make youtube vids and ask for donations
1626 2011-04-13 12:49:12 FellowTraveler1 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1627 2011-04-13 12:49:19 <BlueMatt> or just buy them
1628 2011-04-13 12:49:21 FellowTraveler has joined
1629 2011-04-13 12:49:34 <mtrlt> but buying costs money :P
1630 2011-04-13 12:49:36 <angry> apparenly its a bios problem, i had tried to flash but **cked things up
1631 2011-04-13 12:50:12 <angry> yeah, i bet u lot who started 3 years ago would love the idea of me buying coins lol
1632 2011-04-13 12:52:25 <angry> overdrive is simple nuth to use in cmd line, but it wont let me go below 1250 mhz on memory
1633 2011-04-13 12:52:31 <BlueMatt> angry: or just love the idea of someone support thing the growth of the currency by providing support for the price
1634 2011-04-13 12:52:56 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a2pre)
1635 2011-04-13 12:53:24 skeledrew has joined
1636 2011-04-13 12:53:48 <angry> i've already invested $2000 plus, i think thats enough
1637 2011-04-13 12:53:59 <angry> not enev played any games yet
1638 2011-04-13 12:55:45 <Kiba> I see that the price of bitcoin have gone up
1639 2011-04-13 12:55:53 <Kiba> and even reach 1.00 at some point
1640 2011-04-13 12:56:35 <angry> bye all
1641 2011-04-13 12:56:40 angry has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1642 2011-04-13 12:57:51 skeledrew has quit (Client Quit)
1643 2011-04-13 12:57:52 <BurtyB> oh dear.. maybe they should have invested more time looking into it first :/
1644 2011-04-13 12:58:14 skeledrew has joined
1645 2011-04-13 13:02:18 maxlo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1646 2011-04-13 13:04:43 maxlo has joined
1647 2011-04-13 13:07:33 dbitcoin has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1648 2011-04-13 13:18:27 dbitcoin has joined
1649 2011-04-13 13:19:15 Senji has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1650 2011-04-13 13:20:09 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stats
1651 2011-04-13 13:20:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118171 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 772 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 16 hours, 9 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 92315.83182873
1652 2011-04-13 13:20:32 redengin has joined
1653 2011-04-13 13:24:23 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1654 2011-04-13 13:24:50 BlueMatt has joined
1655 2011-04-13 13:26:51 dbitcoin has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1656 2011-04-13 13:30:11 tabsa has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
1657 2011-04-13 13:31:24 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1658 2011-04-13 13:33:45 RazielZ has joined
1659 2011-04-13 13:40:30 <Kiba> tcatm: yo. got an article from the bitcoinweekly.
1660 2011-04-13 13:40:40 <Kiba> tcatm: wanna review it if it's good for bitcoinwatch?
1661 2011-04-13 13:41:25 <scoots> ;;bc,stats
1662 2011-04-13 13:41:28 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118172 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 771 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 16 hours, 13 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 92187.03470776
1663 2011-04-13 13:44:50 tabsa has joined
1664 2011-04-13 13:45:41 * jaromil watching Open Transactions GUI snapshot ... shows support for bitcoin loom trueledger ...
1665 2011-04-13 13:50:10 <da2ce7> MagicalTux, have you changed your tls cert on purpose?
1666 2011-04-13 13:50:33 <MagicalTux> da2ce7: the old one was godaddy DV, and expired in ~3 months
1667 2011-04-13 13:50:33 <da2ce7> new one is 5D:57:02:AF:2D:4D:54:32:73:AD:C1:EE:21:07:98:9A:9C:B4:5F:D7
1668 2011-04-13 13:51:06 <da2ce7> not it didn't, it expited on the 2011-07-17 17:46:07
1669 2011-04-13 13:51:07 <MagicalTux> yeah, if you hash it with sha&
1670 2011-04-13 13:51:22 <MagicalTux> da2ce7: 2011-07 is in 3 months
1671 2011-04-13 13:51:32 <da2ce7> :P
1672 2011-04-13 13:51:37 <da2ce7> ok cool.
1673 2011-04-13 13:51:48 <da2ce7> i'll accept.
1674 2011-04-13 13:51:51 <da2ce7> :)
1675 2011-04-13 13:52:02 <MagicalTux> anything can't be as bad as godaddy
1676 2011-04-13 13:52:10 <da2ce7> lol yep
1677 2011-04-13 13:54:24 <eps2> nvidia really suck don't they
1678 2011-04-13 13:55:45 <eps2> upgraded the nvidia drivers because diablo miner was b0rking with the existing ones
1679 2011-04-13 13:56:25 <eps2> now the -f 1000 switch doesn't make my desktop usable
1680 2011-04-13 13:56:45 <eps2> and both diablo and poclbm use 100% of one of the CPU cores
1681 2011-04-13 13:57:40 <Diablo-D3> eps2: thats because nvidia sucks.
1682 2011-04-13 13:57:53 <Diablo-D3> both my miner and m0 will wham some people, and no one can figure out why
1683 2011-04-13 13:57:57 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt effect all nvidia users
1684 2011-04-13 13:58:04 <Diablo-D3> and seemingly almost identical machines wont do it
1685 2011-04-13 13:58:16 <Diablo-D3> so its not specific cards doing it
1686 2011-04-13 13:58:32 <eps2> i'm on ubuntu lucid
1687 2011-04-13 13:59:11 <Diablo-D3> as much as I hate ubuntu, its not limited to distro
1688 2011-04-13 13:59:16 <Diablo-D3> infact, its not even limited to OS
1689 2011-04-13 13:59:20 <Diablo-D3> some windows users have the issue
1690 2011-04-13 13:59:24 <eps2> just the drivers?
1691 2011-04-13 13:59:31 <Diablo-D3> its just nvidia cant fucking code
1692 2011-04-13 13:59:40 <Diablo-D3> its the only possible explanation
1693 2011-04-13 13:59:45 <eps2> heh ok
1694 2011-04-13 13:59:52 <UukGoblin> as if ati could...
1695 2011-04-13 14:00:08 <BlueMatt> no gpu drivers are actually good
1696 2011-04-13 14:00:21 <UukGoblin> the ones from sdk 2.1 /work/
1697 2011-04-13 14:00:25 <UukGoblin> I wouldn't call them good though
1698 2011-04-13 14:00:27 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: no, 2.4 works.
1699 2011-04-13 14:00:31 <UukGoblin> oh, there's 2.4?
1700 2011-04-13 14:00:34 <Diablo-D3> yes
1701 2011-04-13 14:00:38 * UukGoblin hasn't checked in for a while
1702 2011-04-13 14:00:40 <Diablo-D3> 2.4 is the new glorious perfect sdk
1703 2011-04-13 14:00:52 <BlueMatt> until you start having problems with it...
1704 2011-04-13 14:00:52 <eps2> and it gives you an extra 100 MHash
1705 2011-04-13 14:01:04 <Diablo-D3> heh
1706 2011-04-13 14:01:07 <Diablo-D3> well, for me
1707 2011-04-13 14:01:11 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, cool. eps2, bullshit ;-P
1708 2011-04-13 14:01:14 <Diablo-D3> 2.1 did high 75 mhash/sec
1709 2011-04-13 14:01:18 <Diablo-D3> 2.4 is doing low 76
1710 2011-04-13 14:01:26 <Diablo-D3> and 2.4 fixes the 2.2/2.3 cpu whoring bug
1711 2011-04-13 14:01:33 <UukGoblin> cool
1712 2011-04-13 14:01:39 <UukGoblin> it probably still requires running X
1713 2011-04-13 14:01:47 <Diablo-D3> think so
1714 2011-04-13 14:01:58 <Diablo-D3> but thats not like nvidia not needing it is a feature
1715 2011-04-13 14:02:01 <UukGoblin> but that's cool
1716 2011-04-13 14:02:21 <Diablo-D3> its not like in mesa you can have legitimate opengl usage outside of X
1717 2011-04-13 14:02:22 <UukGoblin> do you know if 2.4 can handle more than 8 GPU cores?
1718 2011-04-13 14:02:29 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: thats not an SDK issue
1719 2011-04-13 14:02:32 <Diablo-D3> thats a driver issue
1720 2011-04-13 14:02:38 <UukGoblin> ah yes that's the catalyst stuff
1721 2011-04-13 14:03:07 <Diablo-D3> you need to be on a 64 bit OS to get over 5
1722 2011-04-13 14:03:12 <Diablo-D3> Im not sure what the current limit is
1723 2011-04-13 14:03:28 <Diablo-D3> but hey, its not like you're going to have more than 8
1724 2011-04-13 14:03:34 <Diablo-D3> 5970/6990 x 4 = 8
1725 2011-04-13 14:03:42 <UukGoblin> 5970 x5 = 10
1726 2011-04-13 14:03:45 <Diablo-D3> and you wont find mobos that have more than 4 double wide x16
1727 2011-04-13 14:03:56 <Diablo-D3> all the 5 boards I see, the 5th is inaccessable
1728 2011-04-13 14:04:00 <UukGoblin> you don't need double wide and you don't need x16...
1729 2011-04-13 14:04:09 <eps2> risers
1730 2011-04-13 14:04:17 <Diablo-D3> eps2: not everybody is ArtForz.
1731 2011-04-13 14:05:06 <UukGoblin> Bart isn't ArtForz, but he's trying ;-]
1732 2011-04-13 14:05:27 <UukGoblin> how many of 'em asics does artforz have running these days? ;-]
1733 2011-04-13 14:05:29 Moonies has joined
1734 2011-04-13 14:05:44 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: who cares, Art is like a fucking millionare now
1735 2011-04-13 14:05:57 <UukGoblin> I doubt it
1736 2011-04-13 14:06:23 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: he was before he even got the asics (he spent a ton on them to begin with)
1737 2011-04-13 14:06:53 <UukGoblin> millionaire? I thought he said he had something about 40k btc...
1738 2011-04-13 14:07:04 <UukGoblin> that's a ten-thousandaire, but not millionaire
1739 2011-04-13 14:07:10 <BlueMatt> iirc he said something at one point about getting six figs/month for like 6-10 months from a mmo gold-farming program he wrote
1740 2011-04-13 14:07:14 <UukGoblin> satoshi, however...
1741 2011-04-13 14:07:25 <ersi> I doubt he bought the circuits for BTCs though
1742 2011-04-13 14:07:26 <UukGoblin> mmo?
1743 2011-04-13 14:07:33 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: dont know which one
1744 2011-04-13 14:07:59 <eps2> i am not certain you could actually cash out that volume of BTC at the moment
1745 2011-04-13 14:08:11 <UukGoblin> what's mmo?
1746 2011-04-13 14:08:35 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: a type of game (eg world of warcraft, phantasy star, etc)
1747 2011-04-13 14:08:39 <eps2> like world of warcraft
1748 2011-04-13 14:08:41 <UukGoblin> eps2, of course you can, there was 60k traded on mtgox today
1749 2011-04-13 14:08:45 <BlueMatt> massviely multiplayer online
1750 2011-04-13 14:08:46 <UukGoblin> oh, like mmorpg
1751 2011-04-13 14:08:46 aksoo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1752 2011-04-13 14:09:07 <eps2> UukGoblin: all in one go?
1753 2011-04-13 14:09:10 <BlueMatt> I dont know if it was an rpg or some other type of mmo (though its not like there really are any other mmos these days)
1754 2011-04-13 14:09:16 <UukGoblin> eps2, no
1755 2011-04-13 14:09:22 <UukGoblin> eps2, total in the last 24h
1756 2011-04-13 14:09:53 <eps2> well until someone actually tries to sell a million dollars worth of bitcoins we won't know will we...
1757 2011-04-13 14:09:59 wolfspra1l has quit (Quit: leaving)
1758 2011-04-13 14:10:30 <UukGoblin> oh, you're talking million
1759 2011-04-13 14:10:37 <UukGoblin> I was talking tens-of-thousands
1760 2011-04-13 14:10:47 <eps2> if you don't do it all one transaction then your trades will affect the value
1761 2011-04-13 14:11:16 <UukGoblin> million btc is a ton
1762 2011-04-13 14:11:20 <eps2> and if you do do it all in one transaction then you need a buyer of btc willing to hand over a million dollars for them
1763 2011-04-13 14:11:25 <UukGoblin> maybe satoshi has that many
1764 2011-04-13 14:11:30 <BlueMatt> maybe
1765 2011-04-13 14:14:37 <vrs> 60k volume today at mtgox = 400btc for the mtgox operator today?
1766 2011-04-13 14:16:29 <vrs> sounds like you should totally open an exchange
1767 2011-04-13 14:19:33 <Speeder> mtgox is the biggest exchange
1768 2011-04-13 14:19:42 <Speeder> and today and yesterday were exceptions
1769 2011-04-13 14:19:59 <Speeder> mtgox probably is not profitable at all
1770 2011-04-13 14:20:03 <Speeder> (at least, it was not)
1771 2011-04-13 14:20:26 <UukGoblin> vrs, 780. 0.65% is taken at both ends (buyer and seller) I think.
1772 2011-04-13 14:20:42 * Kiba is wenty years old now O_o
1773 2011-04-13 14:20:57 <Speeder> I wonder if someone would sell a ferrari for BTC
1774 2011-04-13 14:21:04 <Speeder> that would create a incredible demand for BTC
1775 2011-04-13 14:21:09 <Speeder> and make its value skyrocket
1776 2011-04-13 14:21:29 <UukGoblin> if there is enough btc for that ferrari
1777 2011-04-13 14:21:31 <vrs> Speeder: i think it is now, if it even makes 1kbtc each month it already should
1778 2011-04-13 14:21:49 <Speeder> vrs you think what is now?
1779 2011-04-13 14:21:59 <UukGoblin> vrs, and people /are/ opening exchanges. I've seen quite a few new ones recently
1780 2011-04-13 14:22:18 <Speeder> I opened a exchange too XD sorta
1781 2011-04-13 14:22:23 <Speeder> for now only on OTC
1782 2011-04-13 14:22:28 <vrs> Speeder: profitable
1783 2011-04-13 14:22:31 <Speeder> (I trade brazillian reais if omeone is interested)
1784 2011-04-13 14:22:59 <Speeder> of course, trading BRL is probably totally pointless for most people outside Brazl
1785 2011-04-13 14:23:02 <Speeder> Brazil
1786 2011-04-13 14:23:09 <Speeder> and probably I am the only brazillian here
1787 2011-04-13 14:23:12 <vrs> UukGoblin: good, because centralization is evil :)
1788 2011-04-13 14:23:33 <EvanR-work> Speeder: until you spread the word
1789 2011-04-13 14:23:44 <UukGoblin> vrs, what would you say about wikipedia then
1790 2011-04-13 14:23:57 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1791 2011-04-13 14:24:14 glassresistor has joined
1792 2011-04-13 14:24:15 <vrs> UukGoblin: same
1793 2011-04-13 14:24:22 <Speeder> Yep
1794 2011-04-13 14:24:27 <vrs> sadly wikipedia is nigh unforkable
1795 2011-04-13 14:24:47 <Speeder> my main issue with wikipedia is that it is biased toward a side that I dislike the bias
1796 2011-04-13 14:24:52 <vrs> even if their license allows it, their databases are just too big
1797 2011-04-13 14:24:59 <Speeder> but non-political articles, wikipedia is usually good
1798 2011-04-13 14:25:10 <UukGoblin> it's pretty good most of the time
1799 2011-04-13 14:25:17 <UukGoblin> but I /would/ like to see it decentralized
1800 2011-04-13 14:25:28 <UukGoblin> vrs, the text is downloadable as xml dumps
1801 2011-04-13 14:25:36 <UukGoblin> I'm currently working on getting all the files
1802 2011-04-13 14:25:44 <vrs> UukGoblin: yeah, and nobody has the machines to import such a dump
1803 2011-04-13 14:25:45 <UukGoblin> which is much more difficult
1804 2011-04-13 14:25:57 <vrs> afaik >300GB xml for enwp
1805 2011-04-13 14:26:06 <vrs> or did they clean it up yet?
1806 2011-04-13 14:26:10 <Speeder> several political articles are US-centered
1807 2011-04-13 14:26:24 <Speeder> (some claim they are illuminate centered... I think that is bizarre, but I see their point)
1808 2011-04-13 14:26:26 <vrs> Speeder: reas other languages' wikipedias then
1809 2011-04-13 14:26:29 <Speeder> illuminati)
1810 2011-04-13 14:26:35 <Speeder> vrs even in other languages
1811 2011-04-13 14:26:35 <vrs> read*
1812 2011-04-13 14:26:37 <UukGoblin> vrs, 9GB 7zip compressed
1813 2011-04-13 14:26:45 <vrs> UukGoblin: compressed, yes
1814 2011-04-13 14:26:54 <Speeder> vrs for example, across all languages, discussing 9/11 theories is not allowed
1815 2011-04-13 14:27:09 <UukGoblin> 61GB uncompressed
1816 2011-04-13 14:27:12 <Speeder> as soon as you suggest any disagreement with official 9/11 stance, other editors destroy you
1817 2011-04-13 14:27:21 <vrs> UukGoblin: ah, my numbers must be outdated then
1818 2011-04-13 14:27:28 <UukGoblin> with 2TB disks, it's totally decompressible
1819 2011-04-13 14:27:34 <vrs> Speeder: that's because 9/11 theorists are mostly a bunch of whackos
1820 2011-04-13 14:27:47 <UukGoblin> vrs, at least that's what 7za seems to be showing: 2011-03-16 21:08:49 ..... 66307793999 9583238256 enwiki-20110115-pages-meta-current.xml
1821 2011-04-13 14:27:57 <Kiba> 9/11 is a distraction...
1822 2011-04-13 14:27:59 Dark_Ghost has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1823 2011-04-13 14:28:03 <Speeder> vrs not really... several know what they are talking about (Even if you disagree with them)
1824 2011-04-13 14:28:07 js0000 has joined
1825 2011-04-13 14:28:21 <Speeder> you cannot even write that disagreement exists on 9/11
1826 2011-04-13 14:28:26 <vrs> Speeder: sure you can
1827 2011-04-13 14:28:31 * UukGoblin would donate to an opensource distributed wikipedia project
1828 2011-04-13 14:28:54 <Speeder> look at the edit history of 9/11
1829 2011-04-13 14:29:00 <da2ce7> UukGoblin? freenet?
1830 2011-04-13 14:29:01 <Speeder> you will see LOOOOOONG edit wars
1831 2011-04-13 14:29:09 <vrs> the last time i was in an editwar about 9/11 theories there was a lot of disagreement documented in the article
1832 2011-04-13 14:29:12 <UukGoblin> da2ce7, something like that, yes
1833 2011-04-13 14:29:15 <UukGoblin> da2ce7, but more usable
1834 2011-04-13 14:29:27 <vrs> i know, i edited wikipedia (de) for two years
1835 2011-04-13 14:29:37 <UukGoblin> including open proxies that allow it to be browsed by people without specialized software, just a browser
1836 2011-04-13 14:29:45 <Speeder> but 9/11 was just one example
1837 2011-04-13 14:29:45 <da2ce7> UukGoblin, donate to a freetalk wiki fund.
1838 2011-04-13 14:30:01 <Speeder> many things are biased toward a US-capitalistic view.
1839 2011-04-13 14:30:10 <UukGoblin> da2ce7, where's that?
1840 2011-04-13 14:30:24 * da2ce7 is making one now!
1841 2011-04-13 14:30:39 <Kiba> the internet gave us lot of great information outside the mainstream
1842 2011-04-13 14:30:44 <UukGoblin> da2ce7, oh lol.
1843 2011-04-13 14:30:54 <Kiba> but it also gave us lot of wacko information
1844 2011-04-13 14:30:58 <Kiba> it's the nature of the beast
1845 2011-04-13 14:31:08 <da2ce7> UukGoblin? have you tried out freetalk yet?
1846 2011-04-13 14:31:27 <UukGoblin> what's freetalk? I tried frost and FMS IIRC... or one of the two
1847 2011-04-13 14:32:16 <UukGoblin> a console based jabber client?
1848 2011-04-13 14:32:47 <da2ce7> no, it is super new
1849 2011-04-13 14:32:58 <da2ce7> its a an offical plugin for freenet
1850 2011-04-13 14:32:58 <UukGoblin> link?
1851 2011-04-13 14:33:02 <da2ce7> um...
1852 2011-04-13 14:33:35 <da2ce7> http://new-wiki.freenetproject.org/Freetalk
1853 2011-04-13 14:34:41 <UukGoblin> da2ce7, right
1854 2011-04-13 14:34:46 <UukGoblin> that's cool
1855 2011-04-13 14:35:07 <UukGoblin> but there's a long way from that to a usable, browsable, forkable, clonable, distributed wikipedia
1856 2011-04-13 14:35:35 <UukGoblin> oh, and syncable with the wikimedia foundation one ;-]
1857 2011-04-13 14:35:50 <luke-jr> Speeder: also a very atheistic/secular view
1858 2011-04-13 14:35:52 <UukGoblin> it'd need branches, and WoT for anti-spam
1859 2011-04-13 14:36:26 <Speeder> luke-jr: yep.
1860 2011-04-13 14:38:38 <UukGoblin> da2ce7, also, I'm not sure if it's possible to solve the popularity issue in freenet (i.e. content that is not popular vanishes in the network)
1861 2011-04-13 14:40:10 <UukGoblin> you wouldn't want a page about a XV-century invention to disappear just because no-one visited it in a year
1862 2011-04-13 14:42:38 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r5a187811c4ef spesmilo/ (core_interface.py main.py settings.py): more strings to localize http://tinyurl.com/5v7ogcj
1863 2011-04-13 14:42:39 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r4458275ee0d0 spesmilo/i18n/ (en_GB.ts eo_EO.ts fr_CA.ts nl_NL.ts): pylupdate4 http://tinyurl.com/5vpeyw6
1864 2011-04-13 14:42:43 <CIA-89> bitcoin: bitcoiner * r92091acf9836 spesmilo/i18n/fr_CA.ts: fr_CA translation for missing error messages http://tinyurl.com/67pguzc
1865 2011-04-13 14:44:25 ForceMajeure has quit ()
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1871 2011-04-13 14:54:37 Stellar has joined
1872 2011-04-13 14:58:20 <sirius-m> spotify links: <a href="spotify:track:5dSblwD6aDH9n1TFlH09ai"> </a>
1873 2011-04-13 14:58:40 <sirius-m> I wonder if you could make bitcoin links like that
1874 2011-04-13 14:59:04 <luke-jr> sirius-m: erm, we already have them
1875 2011-04-13 14:59:12 <sirius-m> do we?
1876 2011-04-13 14:59:30 <luke-jr> <a href="bitcoin:1Hfzxcd4P9o3sHvzgHHLsnras9pBDadUn8">Donate to me</a>
1877 2011-04-13 14:59:46 <luke-jr> sirius-m: well, the wx client doesn't support them, but basically every other one does now
1878 2011-04-13 14:59:46 <sirius-m> never seen
1879 2011-04-13 14:59:55 <[Tycho]> We have them. Sadly there is no software to support it.
1880 2011-04-13 15:00:08 <luke-jr> although js-remote's implementation is non-compliant I hear
1881 2011-04-13 15:00:22 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: erm, at least 3 clients do
1882 2011-04-13 15:00:31 <BlueMatt> there is a chrome plugin that works really well for those
1883 2011-04-13 15:00:34 <[Tycho]> Oh, there are 4 bitcoin clients ?
1884 2011-04-13 15:00:38 <luke-jr> Spesmilo even installs the KDE protocol handler for you
1885 2011-04-13 15:01:10 <luke-jr> so I can literally click such a link in my browser and get a dialog to send
1886 2011-04-13 15:01:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea
1887 2011-04-13 15:01:30 <BlueMatt> oh...sorry
1888 2011-04-13 15:01:47 <luke-jr> (patches to support GNOME, Firefox, Chrome, etc welcome)
1889 2011-04-13 15:02:02 <sirius-m> do you know if it's doable in wx?
1890 2011-04-13 15:02:17 <UukGoblin> there are 4 bitcoin clients now?
1891 2011-04-13 15:02:19 <BlueMatt> sirius-m: should be
1892 2011-04-13 15:02:24 <BlueMatt> what are the clients?
1893 2011-04-13 15:02:26 * UukGoblin heard about bitcoinj, but others?
1894 2011-04-13 15:02:28 <luke-jr> sirius-m: dunno, wx is tightly tied to the wallet
1895 2011-04-13 15:02:32 <BlueMatt> wx, spesmilo, js?
1896 2011-04-13 15:02:42 <luke-jr> there's some .NET client too
1897 2011-04-13 15:02:49 <BlueMatt> really?
1898 2011-04-13 15:03:01 <luke-jr> afaik. I don't use .NET
1899 2011-04-13 15:03:17 BitterTea has quit (Quit: leaving)
1900 2011-04-13 15:03:23 <BlueMatt> you can sort of count the chrome extensions. It shows your balance and you can send from it
1901 2011-04-13 15:03:30 <BlueMatt> but thats all
1902 2011-04-13 15:03:51 <[Tycho]> But it needs official server running ?
1903 2011-04-13 15:03:55 <luke-jr> sirius-m: to get bitcoin: URI support in wx, I think you'd need to either implement it using JSON-RPC, or use some other IPC to talk to the main window
1904 2011-04-13 15:04:24 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: yea, but so does js-remote
1905 2011-04-13 15:04:27 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: Spesmilo at least uses JSON-RPC to talk to its wallet. It can optionally run/manage bitcoind itself.
1906 2011-04-13 15:04:54 Zarutian has joined
1907 2011-04-13 15:05:01 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: hopefully when we have a workable Wallet protocol, it will become more practical to mix and match Wallet and UI/clients
1908 2011-04-13 15:05:52 <gasteve> I expect to be able to publish the reworked source files tonight...everything compiles and seems to work well
1909 2011-04-13 15:06:02 <luke-jr> gasteve: ?
1910 2011-04-13 15:06:26 <gasteve> luke-jr: yes?
1911 2011-04-13 15:06:33 <luke-jr> gasteve: what source? :P
1912 2011-04-13 15:06:39 <BlueMatt> gasteve: reworked as in...?
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1916 2011-04-13 15:07:16 <gasteve> I reorganized the sources in to separate class files, etc
1917 2011-04-13 15:07:54 <BlueMatt> ah, nice
1918 2011-04-13 15:08:01 <gasteve> it's compiling with autotools (both UI and daemon, though it's not yet configured to work without modification across platforms)
1919 2011-04-13 15:08:10 <luke-jr> gasteve: awesome
1920 2011-04-13 15:08:17 <gasteve> also, headers and non-class sources are still a bit of a mess
1921 2011-04-13 15:08:35 <gasteve> but, I want to go ahead and publish to give people a change to critique it
1922 2011-04-13 15:08:41 <gasteve> *chance
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1924 2011-04-13 15:15:38 <luke-jr> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/371022/ if anyone else wants to contribute a translation of Spesmilo⦠:D
1925 2011-04-13 15:18:28 skyewm has joined
1926 2011-04-13 15:22:40 <gasteve> next steps would be: 1) cleanup/prune headers and non-class sources, 2) see if I can eliminate the use of -DGUI in the builds, 3) move sources i nto subdirs oriented around peer, gui, rpc, wallet, miner, and common, 4) look at jgarzik's autotools work and make it all work across platforms
1927 2011-04-13 15:24:32 <tcatm> gasteve: it's best if you make it all very small patches and split the "sources into seperate class files" into a seperate patch
1928 2011-04-13 15:24:55 <gasteve> why is that?
1929 2011-04-13 15:25:11 <sipa> the split-sources-patch will conflict with everything
1930 2011-04-13 15:25:27 <gasteve> yes, of course...sort of the nature of the beast
1931 2011-04-13 15:25:29 <tcatm> and confuse a lot of developers
1932 2011-04-13 15:25:55 <sipa> so to have a chance of merging, it should be done very quickly, and people should be able to verify that it absolutely does not do anything but move code around
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1936 2011-04-13 15:27:48 Lartza has joined
1937 2011-04-13 15:27:57 <gasteve> I plan on syncing it with the tip of the master branch...so there wouldn't be anything to sync...how would I otherwise make it easy to verify code hasn't changed (other than being moved)?
1938 2011-04-13 15:28:45 <gasteve> (I also plan on keeping it in sync with the master branch as new commits are made)
1939 2011-04-13 15:28:57 <luke-jr> gasteve: honestly, why not just strip the miner out?
1940 2011-04-13 15:29:18 <gasteve> luke-jr: well, I don't want to make any functional changes yet
1941 2011-04-13 15:29:20 <tcatm> luke-jr: see forum. there's a thread and I even made a pull request that removes the miner completely
1942 2011-04-13 15:29:59 <gasteve> (but otherwise, I agree with removing the miner)
1943 2011-04-13 15:30:01 <sipa> i'm in favor of removing the miner, but not everyone is, and i don't think gasteve's reorganization should bother with things that are controversial
1944 2011-04-13 15:30:11 <luke-jr> sipa: why isn't everyone?
1945 2011-04-13 15:30:17 <sipa> read the forum
1946 2011-04-13 15:30:49 <luke-jr> don't see it
1947 2011-04-13 15:30:51 <eps2> luke-jr wants to protect the bitcoin artistocracy, he doesn't want the little people mining
1948 2011-04-13 15:31:04 <luke-jr> eps2: the builtin miner is worthless
1949 2011-04-13 15:31:23 <gasteve> yeah, you can't even make it mine as part of a pool can you?
1950 2011-04-13 15:31:29 <luke-jr> nope
1951 2011-04-13 15:31:38 <eps2> it's worth is related to the difficulty
1952 2011-04-13 15:31:40 <gasteve> completely worthless
1953 2011-04-13 15:31:43 <eps2> which can change
1954 2011-04-13 15:31:44 * luke-jr watches bugfix https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5606.0 fall off the topic list
1955 2011-04-13 15:31:45 <tcatm> luke-jr: we simplified the miner, removed GUI options and disabled it by default
1956 2011-04-13 15:31:50 <sipa> eps2: there are better cpu miners out there
1957 2011-04-13 15:31:56 <eps2> then replace it
1958 2011-04-13 15:32:01 <eps2> don't remove it
1959 2011-04-13 15:32:08 <luke-jr> eps2: if difficulty ever goes low enough that it works again, then anyone with a GPU can take over the network.
1960 2011-04-13 15:32:15 <gasteve> maybe instead there should be a link in the GUI to websites where bitcoins can be bought
1961 2011-04-13 15:32:19 <luke-jr> tcatm: sure, but that doesn't remove it entirely
1962 2011-04-13 15:32:58 <tcatm> it's still there so one can easily start a small testnet with two or more bitcoinds
1963 2011-04-13 15:33:06 <luke-jr> gasteve: even better would be a standard market API to allow clients to provide a simple buy dialog
1964 2011-04-13 15:33:12 <gasteve> yes
1965 2011-04-13 15:33:24 <luke-jr> tcatm: fair enough
1966 2011-04-13 15:33:53 <gasteve> it would be nice to have one CPU miner and one GPU miner made semi official and downloadable from the main bitcoin website
1967 2011-04-13 15:34:01 <gasteve> (both should support pool mining)
1968 2011-04-13 15:34:48 <luke-jr> gasteve: there is no official, but I agree bitcoin.org should be reorganized somewhat
1969 2011-04-13 15:35:08 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1970 2011-04-13 15:35:18 <sipa> gasteve: anyway, i don't know how appreciative the people with commit rights are of reorganizing the source code, but maybe you can ask for a temporary freeze so you have time to sync with the github master?
1971 2011-04-13 15:35:20 <luke-jr> eg, an inclusive software list with maybe one "recommended" from each category based on its marketshare
1972 2011-04-13 15:35:24 <gasteve> yeah, don't want to start a debate about which miner...but having one endorsed by the main website would be a good thing
1973 2011-04-13 15:36:13 <luke-jr> although, basing it on marketshare means it's harder for a technically superior client to GAIN marketshare, but I can't think of a better way ;)
1974 2011-04-13 15:36:20 <tcatm> IIRC there was a discussion about reorganizing source before
1975 2011-04-13 15:36:22 <gasteve> sipa: I don't mind maintain and keeping it in sync for a while...I don't want to try and force anyone to adopt the reorganized sources
1976 2011-04-13 15:36:41 <gasteve> *maintaining
1977 2011-04-13 15:36:46 <tcatm> there's even a reorganized source repo somewhere
1978 2011-04-13 15:36:54 <sipa> i haven't seen your work either of course, but in general i think there is a lot of room for improvement currently :)
1979 2011-04-13 15:36:58 aksoo has joined
1980 2011-04-13 15:37:08 <gasteve> sipa: somewhat of an understatement ;)
1981 2011-04-13 15:37:42 * gasteve wanders off to find food
1982 2011-04-13 15:38:46 <luke-jr> :P
1983 2011-04-13 15:38:57 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1986 2011-04-13 15:42:37 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr findnewaddress * r74861e72e083 bitcoind-personal/ (makefile.unix rpc.cpp): Hacky implementation of a "findnewaddress" JSON-RPC call, which generates addresses until it finds one to match a regex http://tinyurl.com/3spmbfa
1987 2011-04-13 15:43:54 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1989 2011-04-13 15:45:04 <nathan7> ;help
1990 2011-04-13 15:45:14 <nathan7> ;mtgox
1991 2011-04-13 15:45:19 <nathan7> :|
1992 2011-04-13 15:45:21 <sipa> ;;help
1993 2011-04-13 15:45:22 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
1994 2011-04-13 15:45:28 <nathan7> !mtgox
1995 2011-04-13 15:45:31 <nathan7> ;;help
1996 2011-04-13 15:45:32 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
1997 2011-04-13 15:45:36 <nathan7> whoops
1998 2011-04-13 15:46:21 <nathan7> How do I get bitcoin prices?
1999 2011-04-13 15:46:32 <topi`> ;;bc,mtgox
2000 2011-04-13 15:46:33 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1,"low":0.8425,"vol":55344,"buy":0.91,"sell":0.94,"last":0.91}}
2001 2011-04-13 15:46:38 <nathan7> Ah
2002 2011-04-13 15:49:54 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,gen 6200000
2003 2011-04-13 15:49:55 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 6200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 75.7297664262 BTC per day and 3.15540693443 BTC per hour.
2004 2011-04-13 15:55:40 robotarmy has joined
2005 2011-04-13 15:56:01 nj8668 has joined
2006 2011-04-13 15:57:35 <eps2> ;;bc,stats
2007 2011-04-13 15:57:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118196 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 747 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 11 hours, 4 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 92824.60740452
2008 2011-04-13 16:00:35 <cosurgi> anybody tried BitcoinJ ?
2009 2011-04-13 16:00:48 <cosurgi> where's the .jar to download or something? :)
2010 2011-04-13 16:00:58 <cosurgi> does it implement wallet exncryption? :)
2011 2011-04-13 16:01:06 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2012 2011-04-13 16:01:11 <cosurgi> Maybe that will be the frontend that I'll recommend to firends......
2013 2011-04-13 16:01:18 <luke-jr> cosurgi: isn't it just a node+wallet?
2014 2011-04-13 16:01:31 <luke-jr> not a 'frontend'/UI
2015 2011-04-13 16:01:43 <cosurgi> I have no idea
2016 2011-04-13 16:03:27 toffoo has quit ()
2017 2011-04-13 16:16:29 <midnightmagic> cripes. yet again caught out in the cold without any liquid ฿ re: mtgox hitting $1
2018 2011-04-13 16:16:32 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2019 2011-04-13 16:16:48 * midnightmagic kicks his stupid underperforming miners.
2020 2011-04-13 16:17:17 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021 2011-04-13 16:17:45 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 265000
2022 2011-04-13 16:17:45 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 2 weeks, 1 day, 10 hours, 43 minutes, and 56 seconds
2023 2011-04-13 16:18:31 <midnightmagic> aaand, still can't withdraw to LR.
2024 2011-04-13 16:19:31 <midnightmagic> i hereby pronounce this day: starting off sucky!
2025 2011-04-13 16:20:45 <midnightmagic> hey, xelister! you're a rude person!
2026 2011-04-13 16:20:47 * midnightmagic feels better.
2027 2011-04-13 16:22:32 jav___ has joined
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2029 2011-04-13 16:27:02 <jav___> When money is moved out off an address, it is alaways everything or nothing, correct? So if an address is one of the inputs of a transaction, all the money located there will be moved, right? Question: what happens, if right after I create and broadcast a transaction, some new money arrives at one of the input addresses? will that affect my transaction if it hasn't made it into a block yet?
2030 2011-04-13 16:28:05 <EvanR-work> +1 -1 is the same as -1 +1 isnt it ? :)
2031 2011-04-13 16:28:08 <sipa> no, you always spend entire transaction outputs
2032 2011-04-13 16:28:26 <BlueMatt> jav___: it is all or nothing of a tx, not an address
2033 2011-04-13 16:28:30 <sipa> if there are mutliple transactions to the same address, you will reuse one or both of them when creating a new tx
2034 2011-04-13 16:30:35 <jav___> aww.. ok, that's what I got mixed up.. it's entire transaction outputs, not an entire address balance.. of course, that makes more sense, thx for clearing that up sipa
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2042 2011-04-13 16:50:18 <iocor> what do people think about building a system of msp430's to build a bitcoin miner
2043 2011-04-13 16:50:28 <iocor> my guess is that per whatt you'd get pretty good hashes per second
2044 2011-04-13 16:51:36 <ersi> Yeah, enjoy doing that
2045 2011-04-13 16:51:57 <iocor> ?
2046 2011-04-13 16:52:19 <[Tycho]> What is msp430 ?
2047 2011-04-13 16:53:19 taco_the_paco has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2048 2011-04-13 16:53:38 <iocor> [Tycho]: it's a small very low whattage processor made by texas instruments
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2051 2011-04-13 16:54:18 taco_the_paco has joined
2052 2011-04-13 16:55:06 <iocor> http://focus.ti.com/mcu/docs/mcumspoverview.tsp?sectionId=95&tabId=140&familyId=342&DCMP=MCU_other&HQS=Other+IL+msp430
2053 2011-04-13 16:55:08 <[Tycho]> What is it's perfomance ?
2054 2011-04-13 16:55:56 <[Tycho]> I don't think that it's a good idea. You better try ASICs :)
2055 2011-04-13 17:01:49 skyewm has joined
2056 2011-04-13 17:02:23 <jgarzik> iocor, [Tycho]: it's a 16-bit microprocessor. good luck building sha256.
2057 2011-04-13 17:03:20 <[Tycho]> jgarzik, it's not my idea.
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2070 2011-04-13 17:25:54 <luke-jr> wtf
2071 2011-04-13 17:26:04 <luke-jr> why is main.h setting an unsigned int to -1?
2072 2011-04-13 17:26:19 <scoots> What would you say is the best minig pool ?
2073 2011-04-13 17:26:30 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2074 2011-04-13 17:26:32 <luke-jr> scoots: mine
2075 2011-04-13 17:26:51 <luke-jr> (it doesn't exist)
2076 2011-04-13 17:27:51 scoots has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
2077 2011-04-13 17:28:18 <[Tycho]> scoots, http://deepbit.net
2078 2011-04-13 17:28:26 <[Tycho]> :(
2079 2011-04-13 17:29:18 <mtrlt> slush's :)
2080 2011-04-13 17:29:31 <mtrlt> that is, http://mining.bitcoin.cz
2081 2011-04-13 17:32:31 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r7c4364c3af41 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/RatingSystem/ (plugin.py test.py): RatingSystem: refactor gettrust code to be easily usable from other plugins. http://tinyurl.com/6htx6wo
2082 2011-04-13 17:34:25 <gjs278> the pro on deepbit is definitely being able to tell how much you made in the last 24 hours
2083 2011-04-13 17:34:58 <gjs278> the con is that I found 2 blocks and I'm at 80 bitcoins... the rest of this pool needs to start pulling some weight here
2084 2011-04-13 17:35:31 <[Tycho]> I knew that people won't like found blocks counter :)
2085 2011-04-13 17:35:34 <mtrlt> you just got bad luck :P
2086 2011-04-13 17:35:48 <mtrlt> i've found 3 blocks and got 27 BTC or something
2087 2011-04-13 17:35:57 <gjs278> wow
2088 2011-04-13 17:37:33 jav___ has quit (Quit: leaving)
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2094 2011-04-13 17:46:58 <luke-jr> Keefe: I think it was you who asked for coinbase outputs on blocks. -watch now has that
2095 2011-04-13 17:47:05 <luke-jr> in theory :p
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2106 2011-04-13 17:58:10 MightyMole has joined
2107 2011-04-13 17:58:30 <MightyMole> Hello?
2108 2011-04-13 17:58:44 Guest84136 has joined
2109 2011-04-13 17:58:51 <ersi> Hi.
2110 2011-04-13 17:59:10 <[Tycho]> Hello.
2111 2011-04-13 17:59:17 <MightyMole> I just found out about bitcoin, and was wondering how to mine...? >.<
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2114 2011-04-13 18:02:00 <ersi> You can mine with the official software, but only with your CPU. These days, a lot of people have some madness-in-a-box crunching gear in form of high performance graphic cards (and others who have specialised hardware). If you got a decently new graphics card, I'd recommend looking into using one of the "GPU Miner" softwares
2115 2011-04-13 18:02:42 <ersi> If you're getting less than 200-300MHash/s with any of them, you should probably join a 'mining pool' - which shares the load of work and reward between the members
2116 2011-04-13 18:02:47 <luke-jr> MightyMole: by "madness-in-a-box", ersi means you'll never find a block with your CPU
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2118 2011-04-13 18:03:46 <MightyMole> So I just download the client, and it starts mining after it's done downloading all the blocks?
2119 2011-04-13 18:04:01 <luke-jr> MightyMole: no, it's off by default. don't turn it on.
2120 2011-04-13 18:05:30 <MightyMole> Luke-jr: I'm confused, what do you mean?
2121 2011-04-13 18:05:45 jrabbit has joined
2122 2011-04-13 18:05:51 <luke-jr> MightyMole: it will just put wear on your CPU, and eat electricity
2123 2011-04-13 18:06:12 <ersi> Means you should probably not mine with the official client/software
2124 2011-04-13 18:06:47 <Keefe> luke-jr: thanks for the new info in -watch. looks great!
2125 2011-04-13 18:06:51 <[Tycho]> MightyMole, what GPU do you have ?
2126 2011-04-13 18:07:14 <luke-jr> Keefe: any ideas regarding making block/TX/trade the same length? :P
2127 2011-04-13 18:07:50 <MightyMole> nvidia GeForce 9800 GX2
2128 2011-04-13 18:08:56 <luke-jr> MightyMole: worthless
2129 2011-04-13 18:09:06 Dark_Ghost has joined
2130 2011-04-13 18:09:24 <MightyMole> luke-jr: Ok, so where should I mine?
2131 2011-04-13 18:09:26 <Keefe> ;;bc,gen 58000
2132 2011-04-13 18:09:28 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 58000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 0.708439750439 BTC per day and 0.029518322935 BTC per hour.
2133 2011-04-13 18:09:29 <luke-jr> Keefe: basically, I think a 5-character "transaction" would be nice
2134 2011-04-13 18:09:35 <luke-jr> MightyMole: Radeon or not at all
2135 2011-04-13 18:09:48 <Keefe> luke-jr: or just add whitespace
2136 2011-04-13 18:10:23 <Keefe> or BK for block?
2137 2011-04-13 18:10:25 <BlueMatt> MightyMole: if you want to be profitable only high end atis are, if you just want to mine for the hell of it (or dont pay for electricity) any high-end graphics card will get you some small amount of btc, but atis have some instructions which make them much faster for mining
2138 2011-04-13 18:10:32 <luke-jr> Keefe: how about trades, then?
2139 2011-04-13 18:10:37 <Keefe> or remove 3 0's? eww
2140 2011-04-13 18:10:55 <luke-jr> (also, I get crap for "TX" being other than "transmit" :P)
2141 2011-04-13 18:11:00 <Keefe> i like trades to be visibly separate, so it's good as is
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2143 2011-04-13 18:12:20 <luke-jr> Keefe: that's what the colours are for :P
2144 2011-04-13 18:12:29 <MightyMole> Profit doesn't matter to me, I just want to mine for mining's sake.
2145 2011-04-13 18:12:41 <luke-jr> MightyMole: no such thing
2146 2011-04-13 18:12:57 <BlueMatt> MightyMole: then use your 9800 gx2 and mine with poclbm or diablo's miner
2147 2011-04-13 18:12:58 <luke-jr> mining is worthless to EVERYONE on a CPU
2148 2011-04-13 18:13:10 <BlueMatt> MightyMole: though you might want to join a pool
2149 2011-04-13 18:13:18 Dark_Ghost has joined
2150 2011-04-13 18:13:29 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: please read the thread on "donating" miners on the forum...
2151 2011-04-13 18:13:46 <MightyMole> Thanks everyone!
2152 2011-04-13 18:13:51 <BlueMatt> and if you have an army of cpu miners they will eventually find a block (kinda the original intent of pools)
2153 2011-04-13 18:16:37 <gjs278> link this donating thread
2154 2011-04-13 18:18:13 <BlueMatt> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5320.0
2155 2011-04-13 18:18:37 <BlueMatt> though it was really the result of an hour long debate and isnt summed up well, but if you read the whole thing you get the just
2156 2011-04-13 18:19:10 <gjs278> only one page, good enough
2157 2011-04-13 18:20:34 <gat3way> hey one question
2158 2011-04-13 18:20:50 <gat3way> it seems that blocks returned by getwork
2159 2011-04-13 18:21:03 <gat3way> are already byteorder-reversed
2160 2011-04-13 18:21:07 <gat3way> is that correct?
2161 2011-04-13 18:21:08 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2162 2011-04-13 18:21:44 <gat3way> I guess the more appropriate question would be...could I expect that to be always like that?
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2174 2011-04-13 18:33:52 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rb37f09a / main.cpp : New checkpoint at block 118,000 - http://bit.ly/gpLOLj
2175 2011-04-13 18:35:13 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: are we getting ready for a release then?
2176 2011-04-13 18:35:37 <gavinandresen> I think we should-- what do you think?
2177 2011-04-13 18:35:51 Moonies has joined
2178 2011-04-13 18:35:57 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I agree
2179 2011-04-13 18:36:00 Stonetz has joined
2180 2011-04-13 18:36:29 <gavinandresen> Great-- I might ask your help with minupnpc stuff if I run into problems with it on the linux/windows build machiens
2181 2011-04-13 18:36:49 <BlueMatt> sure
2182 2011-04-13 18:37:44 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: was any conclusion reached on how it will be distributed (ie x86 vs x64 archives, etc)
2183 2011-04-13 18:37:55 <gasteve> btw, what tools are used/supported for Windows builds? is VC++ supported? or just g++ (personally, I'd prefer to just support g++ and freely available tools)
2184 2011-04-13 18:38:04 <gavinandresen> how what will be distributed?
2185 2011-04-13 18:38:16 <gavinandresen> gasteve: releases are built with g++ (mingw)
2186 2011-04-13 18:38:29 <gasteve> :)
2187 2011-04-13 18:38:41 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: if you're talking about Windows, we've never done Win64 releases, AFAIK
2188 2011-04-13 18:38:52 Donald_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2189 2011-04-13 18:38:56 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I mean the linux builds specifically. Include blockchains/etc separate archives for x86, x64
2190 2011-04-13 18:39:13 davex__ has joined
2191 2011-04-13 18:40:24 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: patches welcome... for this release I plan on writing some scripts (or maybe makefile rules) to automate the builds more.
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2194 2011-04-13 18:40:52 <gavinandresen> ... but I don't have plans beyond that
2195 2011-04-13 18:40:53 <BlueMatt> will there be separate downloads for x86 and x64?
2196 2011-04-13 18:41:00 <BlueMatt> oh
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2203 2011-04-13 18:46:51 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: IMO, the locale fix should go in
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2207 2011-04-13 18:48:32 <luke-jr> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5606.0
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2210 2011-04-13 18:49:09 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: agreed
2211 2011-04-13 18:49:39 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: there's another one also, I think, but the guy experiencing it hasn't got back to me with a pcap :/
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2214 2011-04-13 18:51:35 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: do you recall, off the top of your head, which symbol provides a string representation of bitcoin program version number? "0.3.21" etc.
2215 2011-04-13 18:51:51 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: nope
2216 2011-04-13 18:53:02 <jgarzik> ah hah. FormatVersion()
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2222 2011-04-13 18:56:52 roconnor_ has joined
2223 2011-04-13 18:57:49 <roconnor_> does the hash for a block need to be less-than or less-than-or-equal to the target difficulty thing?
2224 2011-04-13 18:58:35 <roconnor_> the Protocol_rules, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_rules, isn't clear on this.
2225 2011-04-13 18:59:01 jackSmith has joined
2226 2011-04-13 18:59:04 <tcatm> less-than-or-equal
2227 2011-04-13 18:59:17 <roconnor_> thanks
2228 2011-04-13 19:02:15 <roconnor_> ``13. Reject if timestamp is before prev block (for a complicated definition of "before") ''
2229 2011-04-13 19:02:27 <roconnor_> dare I ask what the complicated definition of before is?
2230 2011-04-13 19:06:09 maikmerten has joined
2231 2011-04-13 19:07:15 <mahadri> roconnor_: before the median time of the last 11 blocks
2232 2011-04-13 19:07:25 <roconnor_> ugh
2233 2011-04-13 19:09:22 xelister has joined
2234 2011-04-13 19:12:59 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/153 I rewrote it a bit to make it simpler
2235 2011-04-13 19:14:20 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: aha, I think in C too much :D
2236 2011-04-13 19:14:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I believe the buffer size can be reduced, too
2237 2011-04-13 19:14:53 <gavinandresen> Yup, could be. No harm in having it bigger, though
2238 2011-04-13 19:15:09 <roconnor_> this timestamp checking is kinda annoying
2239 2011-04-13 19:18:07 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2240 2011-04-13 19:18:08 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1,"low":0.86,"vol":49050,"buy":0.9201,"sell":0.9384,"last":0.9384}}
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2246 2011-04-13 19:22:34 <CIA-89> bitcoin: various http-version * r8975d6..8bb5ed bitcoind-personal/ (33 files in 8 dirs): (12 commits) http://tinyurl.com/6hyuw2q
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2248 2011-04-13 19:22:44 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: Any chance you can build-test this on a GUI platform? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/154
2249 2011-04-13 19:23:09 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: if you mean win, not really my mobo died and Im on my laptop atm
2250 2011-04-13 19:23:19 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: Linux + GUI is fine
2251 2011-04-13 19:23:29 <BlueMatt> that I can do
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2256 2011-04-13 19:26:06 <Necr0s> I keep wondering if something is wrong with my mining system...
2257 2011-04-13 19:26:37 <Necr0s> I've had a very low generation rate for the past 30 days (since I reconfigured it), despite an apparently normal hashrate.
2258 2011-04-13 19:27:04 <[Tycho]> Are you mining solo ?
2259 2011-04-13 19:27:07 <Necr0s> And of the 5 blocks that were generated, all of them happened on one single miner instance, out of 4 running on the system.
2260 2011-04-13 19:27:08 <Necr0s> yes.
2261 2011-04-13 19:27:41 <Necr0s> However today I lwft the miners running but restarted bitcoind with -testnet, and I got generation on all 4 miner instances.
2262 2011-04-13 19:28:15 <Necr0s> So yeah, 5 blocks generated in 30 days at 992000khps.
2263 2011-04-13 19:28:22 <Necr0s> ;;bc,calc 992000
2264 2011-04-13 19:28:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 992000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 4 days, 3 hours, 2 minutes, and 10 seconds
2265 2011-04-13 19:31:17 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: it builds, what do you want me to test?
2266 2011-04-13 19:31:37 scoots has joined
2267 2011-04-13 19:32:03 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: nah, just building is fine. if you are a highly motivated individual, run it and see what the 'About' dialog box reports, for version
2268 2011-04-13 19:32:30 edcba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2269 2011-04-13 19:32:37 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: nope, About dialog causes "Illigal Exception"
2270 2011-04-13 19:32:49 <jgarzik> hrm
2271 2011-04-13 19:32:57 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: and I suppose unpatched works?
2272 2011-04-13 19:34:48 <JFK911> alert. i am asserting copyright protection on the bitcoin transactions that i have written. stop copying my proprietary data which I own or you'll be sued!
2273 2011-04-13 19:35:21 <JFK911> i have all your IP's!!
2274 2011-04-13 19:35:54 <BlueMatt> JFK911: have fun filing that suit
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2278 2011-04-13 19:36:15 <JFK911> john does 1-8,000
2279 2011-04-13 19:36:33 <JFK911> the riaa is having luck, why can't i
2280 2011-04-13 19:36:41 <BlueMatt> the media companies with judges in their pockets have problems with those suits
2281 2011-04-13 19:36:49 <BlueMatt> only some luck
2282 2011-04-13 19:36:54 <luke-jr> JFK911: prove it's copyrightable.
2283 2011-04-13 19:36:59 <BlueMatt> and they are literally using judges who just got off their payroll
2284 2011-04-13 19:37:19 <luke-jr> I'm pretty sure Satoshi licensed the Genesis block virally. And everything else is a derived work. :D
2285 2011-04-13 19:37:19 <krytzz> luke-jr: youtube thinks pi is copyrightable :p
2286 2011-04-13 19:37:22 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: no upstream/master works fine
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2294 2011-04-13 19:47:40 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: OK, thanks
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2296 2011-04-13 19:48:37 <Necr0s> ...so presently, whenever a miner generates 50 BTC, a new block is generated and added to the chain, with a bunch of transaction records in it, correct?
2297 2011-04-13 19:48:39 <BlueMatt> np
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2301 2011-04-13 19:49:17 <Necr0s> Once mining gets really difficult or impossible, what ensures that new transactions get recorded in a timely manner?
2302 2011-04-13 19:49:25 <BlueMatt> Necr0s: yep pretty much
2303 2011-04-13 19:49:28 jackSmith has joined
2304 2011-04-13 19:49:40 <BlueMatt> Necr0s: the difficulty is set so that blocks are generated at ~10 blocks/hour
2305 2011-04-13 19:49:46 <BlueMatt> that is the definition of difficulty
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2307 2011-04-13 19:50:04 <Necr0s> But at some point there will be no more btc to be mined...
2308 2011-04-13 19:50:11 <jgarzik> Necr0s: transaction fees
2309 2011-04-13 19:51:05 <Necr0s> So hashing still occurs, difficulty is adjusted based on network strength, and new blocks are still generated much like they are now, but each one will not have 50 BTC for the generator built-in?
2310 2011-04-13 19:51:34 <xelister> 3 BTC to find current maintainer of https://launchpad.net/vmbuilder on IRC and call him a stupid nigger
2311 2011-04-13 19:51:35 <Necr0s> The reward instead being any transaction fees included in the transactions being recorded.
2312 2011-04-13 19:52:18 <xelister> seriously they ignore $TMPDIR and break forward compatibilty by REMOVING EXISTING OPTIONS LIKE -tmp= AND BREAKING ANY WORK-AROUND BY IGNORING $TMPDIR . WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
2313 2011-04-13 19:52:24 <Necr0s> That makes sense.
2314 2011-04-13 19:52:35 <ersi> xelister: It's probably 'smoser'. He's online on this net. Do I get a reward? :)
2315 2011-04-13 19:52:57 <ersi> (He's got most points in the LP project)
2316 2011-04-13 19:53:45 <jgarzik> Necr0s: right now reward is 50 BTC + TX fees. eventually that declines to 0.00 BTC + TX fees. At that point (40 years in the future?) bitcoin will have succeeded to the point where TX fees can sustain the system, or it will have died long before the block reward reaches zero.
2317 2011-04-13 19:53:47 <phantomcircuit> xelister, it's hallyn
2318 2011-04-13 19:53:49 <xelister> ersi: you have to call him names for creating such shitty software. Or beat him up alternativly
2319 2011-04-13 19:53:59 <xelister> well who ever does it on some channel I can be on lol =)
2320 2011-04-13 19:54:07 <ersi> Bah :)
2321 2011-04-13 19:54:22 <xelister> <smoser> hallyn is the actual maintainer, but maybe i can help
2322 2011-04-13 19:54:27 <xelister> "but maybe i CAN HELP" lol?
2323 2011-04-13 19:54:31 jackSmith has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2324 2011-04-13 19:54:37 hallyn has joined
2325 2011-04-13 19:54:53 <ersi> lol, I bet there was a :trollface: afterwards
2326 2011-04-13 19:54:53 jackSmith has joined
2327 2011-04-13 19:54:56 <roconnor_> tcatm: when there are no more bitcoins left to allocate, then we no longer check for a bitcoin block at the beginning of the transaction list of a block?
2328 2011-04-13 19:54:58 <xelister> ersi: lol
2329 2011-04-13 19:55:09 <phantomcircuit> roconnor_, yes
2330 2011-04-13 19:55:18 <phantomcircuit> roconnor_, wait no
2331 2011-04-13 19:55:28 <phantomcircuit> roconnor_, simply the amount in the generation block is 0
2332 2011-04-13 19:55:32 <jgarzik> roconnor_: huh?
2333 2011-04-13 19:55:45 <hallyn> heh
2334 2011-04-13 19:55:49 <xelister> ersi: phantomcircuit well ok, alternativly, just get him, or someone, to get vmbuilder to support mother fucking fucking -tmp or $TMPDIR the fuck
2335 2011-04-13 19:55:50 <tcatm> not 0. it'll include the transaction fee
2336 2011-04-13 19:56:01 <xelister> *on my ubuntu 10
2337 2011-04-13 19:56:16 <krytzz> roconnor_: we have to continue to create blocks so the TXs are confirmed
2338 2011-04-13 19:56:36 <xelister> ersi: we do not support -tmp no more.... nor $TMPDIR. problem ? :D
2339 2011-04-13 19:56:37 <hallyn> live-build is the recommended way forward, fwiw. Runs great in a full tmpfs.
2340 2011-04-13 19:56:38 hallyn has left ("Leaving")
2341 2011-04-13 19:56:44 <roconnor_> krytzz: sure, I'm wondering about the check for a bitcoin block
2342 2011-04-13 19:56:50 <xelister> lol what
2343 2011-04-13 19:57:09 <roconnor_> ah sorry
2344 2011-04-13 19:57:10 <genjix> MagicalTux: hey around?
2345 2011-04-13 19:57:11 <xelister> HE WAS HERE :-E
2346 2011-04-13 19:57:12 <phantomcircuit> xelister, for what files?
2347 2011-04-13 19:57:12 <roconnor_> I mean coinbase
2348 2011-04-13 19:57:15 <genjix> ;;bc,seen MagicalTux
2349 2011-04-13 19:57:15 <gribble> Error: "bc,seen" is not a valid command.
2350 2011-04-13 19:57:20 <roconnor_> 6. First transaction must be coinbase (i.e. only 1 input, with hash=0, n=-1), the rest must not be
2351 2011-04-13 19:57:20 <genjix> ;;bc,lastseen MagicalTux
2352 2011-04-13 19:57:20 <gribble> Error: "bc,lastseen" is not a valid command.
2353 2011-04-13 19:57:25 <genjix> ;;bc,help
2354 2011-04-13 19:57:26 <gribble> Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,markets, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias bc,wiki
2355 2011-04-13 19:57:28 <ersi> xelister: I guess you get your own reward :D
2356 2011-04-13 19:57:29 <xelister> phantomcircuit: I need vmbuilder to use some other dir then /tmp for mother fucking temp files, because my /tmp is small
2357 2011-04-13 19:57:40 <roconnor_> so if there are no more coins to generated, does there need to be a coinbase transaction anymore?
2358 2011-04-13 19:57:42 <roconnor_> presumably not
2359 2011-04-13 19:57:53 <roconnor_> but the wiki technically says you do
2360 2011-04-13 19:57:59 <phantomcircuit> xelister, why is your /tmp small
2361 2011-04-13 19:58:32 rly has joined
2362 2011-04-13 19:58:34 <roconnor_> tcatm: oh right, the transaction fee still need to go to the person listed in the coinbase
2363 2011-04-13 19:58:36 <roconnor_> got it
2364 2011-04-13 19:58:55 <genjix> whatr does a coinbase transaction look like?
2365 2011-04-13 19:59:02 <genjix> it's just a plain address, right?
2366 2011-04-13 19:59:16 <xelister> phantomcircuit: it's on tmpfs
2367 2011-04-13 19:59:48 <phantomcircuit> xelister, just increase swap space...
2368 2011-04-13 19:59:59 <rly> What is the computational complexity for deciding whether a coin has already been spent by user Alice?
2369 2011-04-13 20:00:04 <xelister> phantomcircuit: tmpfs doesnt go to swap
2370 2011-04-13 20:00:26 jackSmith has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2371 2011-04-13 20:01:12 <phantomcircuit> xelister, im like 99% certain that it will
2372 2011-04-13 20:01:36 <genjix> scriptPubKey: 1MgdBSAVppjxjnpRUDeHuqzLRtWVmikCMY OP_CHECKSIG
2373 2011-04-13 20:01:57 <phantomcircuit> xelister, which iirc is the entire point of tmpfs instead of a ram block device
2374 2011-04-13 20:02:11 <xelister> phantomcircuit: it filsl it to 100% and then refuses to make more files in /tmp
2375 2011-04-13 20:02:28 <xelister> anyway. what if my /tmp would be just small on some speciall embbed dev.
2376 2011-04-13 20:02:29 <genjix> scriptSig: <sha256 hash of scriptPubKey>
2377 2011-04-13 20:02:41 <phantomcircuit> xelister, you can just change the size of the tmpfs
2378 2011-04-13 20:02:59 <rly> Everything stored in tmpfs is temporary in the sense that no files will be created on the hard drive; however, swap space is used as backing store in case of low memory situations.
2379 2011-04-13 20:02:59 <EPiSKiNG> [Tycho] you around?
2380 2011-04-13 20:03:22 <phantomcircuit> xelister, sudo mount -o remount,size=1G /tmp
2381 2011-04-13 20:03:44 <rly> Is there anyone with a complete understand of Bitcoin who can answer my above question?
2382 2011-04-13 20:03:58 <rly> It should be easy to answer if you wrote the code.
2383 2011-04-13 20:04:29 <phantomcircuit> rly, low
2384 2011-04-13 20:04:42 <gavinandresen> rly: what do you know about Alice?
2385 2011-04-13 20:04:51 jostmey has joined
2386 2011-04-13 20:04:53 <rly> gavinandresen: just the public key.
2387 2011-04-13 20:05:03 <phantomcircuit> rly, im not sure what it is in the current implementation, but it could be trivially implemented as a B tree lookup
2388 2011-04-13 20:05:58 <rly> phantomcircuit: if the current implementation stinks, it could destroy Bitcoin.
2389 2011-04-13 20:06:02 <phantomcircuit> or i guess 2 look ups
2390 2011-04-13 20:06:04 <gavinandresen> rly: yeah, what phantomcircuit said: depends on how you store the block chain transactions. Current bitcoin, if you aren't Alice then it is linear.
2391 2011-04-13 20:06:55 <xelister> ok we are working with hallyn for workaround
2392 2011-04-13 20:07:19 <rly> gavinandresen: linear in the number of times a particular coin has been spent or in total transactions?
2393 2011-04-13 20:07:22 <xelister> TMPDIR works. just need to get the wrapper program 'vmbuilder' to convert -tmp=foo into env-var. and workaround works.
2394 2011-04-13 20:07:46 <gavinandresen> rly: total transactions. Current bitcoin doesn't bother indexing transactions by public key that don't belong to you.
2395 2011-04-13 20:08:23 <gavinandresen> rly: ... and that's not a problem, because when the transaction is spent you get it's transaction hash (and transactions are indexed by hash)
2396 2011-04-13 20:09:06 <xelister> if after that vmbuilder still doesnt work, I'm going to blow up an atomic power plant in my country.
2397 2011-04-13 20:09:09 <xelister> 100% seriously.
2398 2011-04-13 20:09:43 <rly> gavinandresen: that last part is not clear to me.
2399 2011-04-13 20:10:32 <roconnor_> what should I do if I've sent out a transaction but no one is willing to validate it because the transaction fee is too low?
2400 2011-04-13 20:10:33 <gavinandresen> rly: current bitcoin never performs operations like "Here is a random public key. Are there any transactions involving it?"
2401 2011-04-13 20:11:24 <gavinandresen> rly: current bitcoin knows all of YOUR public keys, and looks for transactions that involve them... it doesn't really care about other people's.
2402 2011-04-13 20:11:54 <rly> gavinandresen: but to check for double spending, you need to check a random public key, no?
2403 2011-04-13 20:12:11 roconnor_ is now known as roconnor
2404 2011-04-13 20:12:18 <gavinandresen> rly: no-- transactions refer to previous transactions by transaction id (== hash), not by public keys.
2405 2011-04-13 20:12:50 <gavinandresen> ... and all you care about with a double-spend is where the bitcoins come from (previous transactions == previous hashes)
2406 2011-04-13 20:12:52 <rly> gavinandresen: ok, but you still have to traverse all those transactions then.
2407 2011-04-13 20:13:20 EPiSKiNG has quit ()
2408 2011-04-13 20:13:34 <gavinandresen> If you're asking what's the comp. complexity for checking if a transaction is valid, that's a different question...
2409 2011-04-13 20:15:16 <xelister> ersi: hey I was wrong it does support TMPDIR, working iwht hallyn on full solution though
2410 2011-04-13 20:15:39 <sipa> a b-tree lookup should be log(n) in complexity
2411 2011-04-13 20:15:53 <sipa> and you know the full hash of the transaction you're looking for
2412 2011-04-13 20:16:02 <ersi> xelister: Neat :) Did you take back the 'fucking nigger' part first? :P
2413 2011-04-13 20:16:15 <ersi> xelister: Oh, I know. Offer him the BTC reward ;)
2414 2011-04-13 20:16:25 <sipa> i wonder why github shows jgarzik's commits as "Jeff Garzic" instead of his user name
2415 2011-04-13 20:17:02 <gavinandresen> yeah, txn validation should be M log(n) where M is number of inputs and n is total number of transactions. Unless you can fit it all in memory and do it in M * constant time.
2416 2011-04-13 20:17:30 <xelister> ersi: >_>
2417 2011-04-13 20:17:42 brunner has joined
2418 2011-04-13 20:17:52 <xelister> ersi: still removing an previously existing cmd line argument and totally breaing fwd comopaitlibyt is a crime =)
2419 2011-04-13 20:18:00 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: you still here?
2420 2011-04-13 20:18:13 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yep
2421 2011-04-13 20:18:26 Donald_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2422 2011-04-13 20:19:18 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: can you tell what I'm doing wrong: https://gist.github.com/918310
2423 2011-04-13 20:20:29 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: hm, never had any problems like that, are you using the 1.5 version or a nightly?
2424 2011-04-13 20:20:44 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: miniupnpc-1.5.20110314
2425 2011-04-13 20:20:57 <gavinandresen> ... from the .tar.gz
2426 2011-04-13 20:21:09 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: on unix and osx, it works with miniupnpc-1.5
2427 2011-04-13 20:21:15 <BlueMatt> only the windows one needed nightly
2428 2011-04-13 20:21:25 <BlueMatt> because the 1.5 one wouldnt build for me
2429 2011-04-13 20:21:53 <gavinandresen> Ah-- I grabbed the wrong one
2430 2011-04-13 20:23:30 EPiSKiNG has joined
2431 2011-04-13 20:24:44 <gavinandresen> lol-- Bram Cohen doesn't like bitcoin
2432 2011-04-13 20:25:10 <gavinandresen> From his twitter feed: "Bitcoin is, at core, a form of digital goldbuggism, which is even more ridiculous than regular goldbuggism. Now stop asking me about it."
2433 2011-04-13 20:26:07 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2435 2011-04-13 20:27:03 <BlueMatt> as much as I respect the guy's intellect, I dont really agree with alot of his ideals
2436 2011-04-13 20:27:05 AnonX has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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2439 2011-04-13 20:28:02 <jgarzik> well, I define gold bugs as people who think buying gold is always a good idea, because, just look at how awfully managed governments are, surely they will collapse any day now
2440 2011-04-13 20:28:20 <jgarzik> /some/ people might buy bitcoins for the same reason, but I doubt it.
2441 2011-04-13 20:28:37 <BlueMatt> odd, AFAIK most people buy bitcoin for that reason
2442 2011-04-13 20:28:40 <jgarzik> bitcoins are more likely to collapse than the US gov't, at this point :)
2443 2011-04-13 20:29:15 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: IMO there's a vast difference between not liking a system, and thinking said system will collapse any day now, therefore you must put all your savings into bitcoins.
2444 2011-04-13 20:29:19 <luke-jr> jgarzik: when the government falls, so will internet access
2445 2011-04-13 20:29:43 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I keep a pigeon coop in the backyard, to maintain my network
2446 2011-04-13 20:29:49 <luke-jr> hah
2447 2011-04-13 20:29:58 <BlueMatt> haha nice
2448 2011-04-13 20:30:52 <luke-jr> jgarzik: who do you peer with?
2449 2011-04-13 20:31:04 <sipa> RFC 1149 to the rescue
2450 2011-04-13 20:31:38 <gasteve> wait, let me buy some more bitcoins before you all rush in to protect against the dollar collapse
2451 2011-04-13 20:31:41 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh wow, I had no idea that existed
2452 2011-04-13 20:31:52 <BlueMatt> amazing
2453 2011-04-13 20:31:59 <luke-jr> LOL
2454 2011-04-13 20:32:13 <slush> lol
2455 2011-04-13 20:32:19 <ersi> xelister: Yeah, I agree. It's not hard keeping around, especially not if you are leaving the functionality in
2456 2011-04-13 20:32:23 <gasteve> if you could all just hold off on any more purchases for a few days, that would be great
2457 2011-04-13 20:32:32 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: check the publication date
2458 2011-04-13 20:32:37 <jgarzik> Youngsters. All of you.
2459 2011-04-13 20:32:48 <jgarzik> :)
2460 2011-04-13 20:33:06 <BlueMatt> yea 1149 is a fairly low number
2461 2011-04-13 20:33:07 <luke-jr> jgarzik: pfft, I know the RFC, even if I don't have the number memorized
2462 2011-04-13 20:33:10 * sipa was 14 years old then, but heard about it much later :)
2463 2011-04-13 20:33:12 <jgarzik> RFC 1149 has been successfully implemented in the field, even.
2464 2011-04-13 20:33:14 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, idiot, the actual date
2465 2011-04-13 20:33:25 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yes I looked at that too
2466 2011-04-13 20:33:27 <luke-jr> sipa: I was 5 then :p
2467 2011-04-13 20:33:28 <sipa> wait, i misread
2468 2011-04-13 20:33:29 <BlueMatt> april 1
2469 2011-04-13 20:33:35 <sipa> 1990 instead of 1999
2470 2011-04-13 20:33:42 <BlueMatt> I was -3 at the time
2471 2011-04-13 20:33:42 * sipa was 5 as well
2472 2011-04-13 20:33:53 <genjix> <pubKeyHash> = 89 AB CD EF AB BA AB BA AB BA AB BA AB BA AB BA AB BA AB BA
2473 2011-04-13 20:34:04 <luke-jr> actually, I was 4 on Apr 1
2474 2011-04-13 20:34:10 <ersi> genjix: yeah, about that.. I'll need you to come in saturday
2475 2011-04-13 20:34:11 <genjix> that doesn't look like a bitcoin address?
2476 2011-04-13 20:34:18 <ersi> damn autocomplete
2477 2011-04-13 20:34:19 <sipa> genjix: abba!
2478 2011-04-13 20:34:22 <ersi> I meant gasteve
2479 2011-04-13 20:34:23 <BlueMatt> I love that there is actually an rfc which supersedes it
2480 2011-04-13 20:34:29 <gasteve> oh my...I feel old
2481 2011-04-13 20:34:30 <genjix> ok
2482 2011-04-13 20:35:18 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6214 ?
2483 2011-04-13 20:35:27 <ersi> RFC 2324 is my favorite. (HTCPCP/1.0)
2484 2011-04-13 20:35:55 <BlueMatt> how did I never know rfc did april fools jokes
2485 2011-04-13 20:36:26 <ersi> Well, they're only requests for comments
2486 2011-04-13 20:36:27 Zenith77 has joined
2487 2011-04-13 20:36:40 <ersi> nothing says they'll ever be on the Internet standards track
2488 2011-04-13 20:38:48 <jgarzik> "Security Considerations: Anyone who gets between me and my morning coffee should be insecure." -2324
2489 2011-04-13 20:39:26 <genjix> <pubKeyHash> = 89 AB CD EF AB BA AB BA AB BA AB BA AB BA AB BA AB BA AB BA
2490 2011-04-13 20:39:44 <genjix> what is that hash?
2491 2011-04-13 20:40:02 <genjix> and why is it not following the format for bitcoin addresses
2492 2011-04-13 20:40:06 <jgarzik> Does anybody recall a search string (or link) describing how to use ClearCoin for options? gavinandresen?
2493 2011-04-13 20:40:14 <jgarzik> it was somewhere on the forums
2494 2011-04-13 20:40:18 <peck> looks like someone that really likes ABBA...
2495 2011-04-13 20:40:27 <peck> that/who
2496 2011-04-13 20:40:31 <BlueMatt> god they even did a fb app for IP over Social Networks
2497 2011-04-13 20:40:33 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I didn't save the link
2498 2011-04-13 20:40:59 <sipa> genjix: where do you see that?
2499 2011-04-13 20:41:20 <sipa> it is 160 bits
2500 2011-04-13 20:41:25 gjs278 has joined
2501 2011-04-13 20:41:39 <sipa> BlueMatt: and it actually works, by the way
2502 2011-04-13 20:41:39 jercos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2503 2011-04-13 20:41:57 <genjix> sipa: on the wiki
2504 2011-04-13 20:41:58 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2505 2011-04-13 20:41:58 <sipa> i succesfully pinged my home computer's tunneled ipv6 address using it
2506 2011-04-13 20:42:08 <BlueMatt> god thats amazing
2507 2011-04-13 20:42:09 <genjix> sipa: From https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Standard_Transaction_to_Bitcoin_address
2508 2011-04-13 20:42:17 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: nanotube has it. 'option orders' and 'secured loans' links on front page of http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/
2509 2011-04-13 20:42:20 gjs278 has joined
2510 2011-04-13 20:42:33 <genjix> i want to know how one can get that hash from your wallet's keypair
2511 2011-04-13 20:42:54 parus has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2512 2011-04-13 20:43:00 <genjix> gavinandresen: did you make some tools for disassembling wallets?
2513 2011-04-13 20:43:20 <sipa> genjix: take the address, decode the base58, remove the '1' byte from the start, drop the 4 checksum bytes at the end, and output in hex
2514 2011-04-13 20:43:36 <genjix> ahh ok
2515 2011-04-13 20:43:46 <jgarzik> genjix: Hash160(pubkey)
2516 2011-04-13 20:44:03 <genjix> ok cool
2517 2011-04-13 20:44:04 <sipa> which is ripemd160(sha256(pubkey))
2518 2011-04-13 20:44:07 <jgarzik> genjix: see script.h SetBitcoinAddress()
2519 2011-04-13 20:44:11 <genjix> great
2520 2011-04-13 20:44:28 <genjix> ok makes sense.
2521 2011-04-13 20:44:43 <genjix> is there a tool for disassembling wallets?
2522 2011-04-13 20:44:59 <jgarzik> genjix: bitcointools?
2523 2011-04-13 20:45:03 <genjix> ok
2524 2011-04-13 20:45:05 <genjix> yes
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2529 2011-04-13 20:54:14 <EPiSKiNG> ;;stats
2530 2011-04-13 20:54:14 <gribble> I have 17 registered users with 21 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
2531 2011-04-13 20:54:19 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,stats
2532 2011-04-13 20:54:20 <genjix> so when mining, we do sha256(sha256(header)). when doing script, we do ripemd160(sha256(pubkey)); the hex output of that is converted to ascii and stored as pubKeyHash
2533 2011-04-13 20:54:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118233 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 710 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 3 hours, 59 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 93126.51531906
2534 2011-04-13 20:54:31 <sipa> genjix: exactly
2535 2011-04-13 20:54:51 <genjix> when signing transactions, we use EDCSA
2536 2011-04-13 20:54:53 <genjix> great.
2537 2011-04-13 20:55:20 <sipa> and ripemd160(sha256(pubkey)) is the relevant part of an address
2538 2011-04-13 20:55:29 parus has joined
2539 2011-04-13 20:55:35 <genjix> i mean for signing a script
2540 2011-04-13 20:55:57 <krytzz> sipa: is it only +1 at the beginning or also anything else?
2541 2011-04-13 20:55:59 <sipa> i don't think there is any ascii representation internally
2542 2011-04-13 20:56:02 <genjix> and the pubkey of the signer is appended after
2543 2011-04-13 20:56:24 <Necr0s> I'm interested in writing a miner in perl for the lulz.
2544 2011-04-13 20:56:28 <sipa> krytzz: also the first 32 bit of the sha256 of version+ripemd160(sha256(pubkey))
2545 2011-04-13 20:56:36 <sipa> is appended to it, as checksum
2546 2011-04-13 20:56:49 <Necr0s> Is there pseudocode or similar around that describes mining?
2547 2011-04-13 20:56:56 <krytzz> ok thanks
2548 2011-04-13 20:57:07 <sipa> so bits 0-7 of an address are version, bits 8-167 are the pubkeyhash, bits 168-199 are the checksum
2549 2011-04-13 20:58:09 <krytzz> ok
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2554 2011-04-13 21:08:22 <BlueMatt> Ive spent literally the last half-hour laughing at the rfc april fools
2555 2011-04-13 21:10:27 TD_ has joined
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2557 2011-04-13 21:14:21 <luke-jr> â¦
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2574 2011-04-13 21:32:09 <lfm> Necr0s: there is a bash miner I wrote that should be pretty easy to follow (it cheats and uses some very small C programs to assist
2575 2011-04-13 21:33:16 bitcoinbulletin has joined
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2582 2011-04-13 21:45:13 <grbgout> lfm: oh yeah? Url?
2583 2011-04-13 21:45:33 <grbgout> I like bash, I like C, and I like easy to follow. :)
2584 2011-04-13 21:47:27 <lfm> grbgout: Im not sure it works right yet actually but it should be close : http://www3.telus.net/millerlf/bashhashminer.tar.gz
2585 2011-04-13 21:47:48 <grbgout> sounds good, thanks
2586 2011-04-13 21:48:14 <jgarzik> grbgout: pyminer and cpuminer are small and pretty easy to follow
2587 2011-04-13 21:48:24 <grbgout> jgarzik: have those downloaded as well.
2588 2011-04-13 21:48:59 <sipa> what is typical on github? that you remove your own branches with finished and merged things in them?
2589 2011-04-13 21:49:13 <grbgout> I've resolved myself to not looking at any code until I've read the white paper, which I /still/ haven't done --- too many distractions :)
2590 2011-04-13 21:49:51 <BlueMatt> sipa: been wondering the same myself
2591 2011-04-13 21:50:02 <lfm> grbgout: its not that long a paper
2592 2011-04-13 21:50:07 drazak_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2593 2011-04-13 21:50:09 <sipa> coming from SVN, i fee really unconfortable with removing things :)
2594 2011-04-13 21:50:11 <sipa> +l
2595 2011-04-13 21:50:11 <grbgout> lfm: I know, I've skimmed it.
2596 2011-04-13 21:50:22 <grbgout> Only 9 pages.
2597 2011-04-13 21:50:28 <gjs278> you could restore things even easier in svn
2598 2011-04-13 21:50:33 <gjs278> because you had actual revision numbers
2599 2011-04-13 21:50:35 agricocb has joined
2600 2011-04-13 21:50:43 <gjs278> you could just take a rough guess and find your file like magic
2601 2011-04-13 21:50:46 <grbgout> But the first thing I did was hit google for SHA256, and collected as many PDFs as I could muster in an evening.
2602 2011-04-13 21:50:57 <luke-jr> sipa: I personally rename them locally, and delete from publication
2603 2011-04-13 21:51:18 <sipa> locally, as in, on your own computer?
2604 2011-04-13 21:51:23 <luke-jr> yes
2605 2011-04-13 21:51:45 drazak has joined
2606 2011-04-13 21:51:51 <luke-jr> sipa: the difference is, that while Subversion just merged the branches as a big diff, git actually preserves the entire branch history in the merged tree
2607 2011-04-13 21:52:08 <jgarzik> sipa: yeah, I delete branches after they're merged. Otherwise it becomes clutter.
2608 2011-04-13 21:52:30 * luke-jr has no trouble ignoring branches that start with MERGED_*
2609 2011-04-13 21:52:50 <gjs278> why keep them though... the entire point was to just write one feature
2610 2011-04-13 21:52:55 <gjs278> and get it into the main client
2611 2011-04-13 21:53:09 <sipa> you're probably right
2612 2011-04-13 21:53:17 <luke-jr> gjs278: shrug, why not?
2613 2011-04-13 21:53:18 <lfm> why keep any history
2614 2011-04-13 21:53:21 <luke-jr> plenty of disk space
2615 2011-04-13 21:53:24 <gjs278> more inodes
2616 2011-04-13 21:53:28 <luke-jr> gjs278: git gc
2617 2011-04-13 21:53:33 <sipa> the relevant part (the commits) are retained of course
2618 2011-04-13 21:53:38 <luke-jr> also, I've never run out of inodes
2619 2011-04-13 21:53:41 <gjs278> I have
2620 2011-04-13 21:53:43 <gjs278> on a netbsd install
2621 2011-04-13 21:53:45 <gjs278> with a 2gb hd
2622 2011-04-13 21:53:49 <luke-jr> and I intentionally cut the inode ratio on my HDs
2623 2011-04-13 21:53:56 <luke-jr> to like 1/16 of the default
2624 2011-04-13 21:54:09 <gjs278> give me your extra inodes if you're not using them
2625 2011-04-13 21:54:30 <sipa> use another filesystem :)
2626 2011-04-13 21:54:47 <luke-jr> wow: git gc just took 45 GB down to 3.7 GB
2627 2011-04-13 21:55:11 <grbgout> gc being garbage collection?
2628 2011-04-13 21:55:30 <gjs278> how did 45gb accumulate in the first place, what projects did it include
2629 2011-04-13 21:57:38 AAA_awright_ has joined
2630 2011-04-13 21:59:08 <luke-jr> gjs278: my maildir
2631 2011-04-13 21:59:20 <gjs278> lol
2632 2011-04-13 21:59:28 <luke-jr> which is 8.9 GB
2633 2011-04-13 22:00:02 <lfm> what are you editing movies in your email?
2634 2011-04-13 22:00:33 <gjs278> the scary part is it compressed down to 3.7gb... if it was only text it would have done way better compression
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2637 2011-04-13 22:01:01 <luke-jr> lfm: my *unread* messages (inbox) go back to 2005
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2644 2011-04-13 22:01:21 tectonic_ is now known as tectonic
2645 2011-04-13 22:01:21 <luke-jr> gjs278: that's 3.7 GB for the entire *history* since about 2009
2646 2011-04-13 22:01:41 <gjs278> 3.7gb for now until 2009 is still ridiculous
2647 2011-04-13 22:01:42 <lfm> you save all your spam?
2648 2011-04-13 22:01:43 <luke-jr> I also can't really help it when clients send me 40 MB PDFs >.>
2649 2011-04-13 22:01:43 <sipa> you keep your mail history in git?
2650 2011-04-13 22:01:51 <luke-jr> lfm: I don't go through it
2651 2011-04-13 22:01:53 drazak has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2652 2011-04-13 22:01:54 <luke-jr> sipa: yeah
2653 2011-04-13 22:02:14 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why?
2654 2011-04-13 22:02:25 <luke-jr> Spam folders make up 1.7 GB of the maildir
2655 2011-04-13 22:02:28 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: backup
2656 2011-04-13 22:02:30 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r5137e768f41d supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCOrderBook/ (config.py plugin.py test.py): OTCOrderBook: allow longer order duration for sufficiently trusted users. http://tinyurl.com/63b8nla
2657 2011-04-13 22:02:34 <gjs278> well
2658 2011-04-13 22:02:39 <gjs278> if the git repo is on your computer
2659 2011-04-13 22:02:46 <gjs278> not much of a backup
2660 2011-04-13 22:02:51 <luke-jr> gjs278: it's on my mail server
2661 2011-04-13 22:02:54 <gjs278> oh ok
2662 2011-04-13 22:02:56 <luke-jr> which regularly pushes to my desktop
2663 2011-04-13 22:03:06 <lfm> obviously disk space is way too cheap
2664 2011-04-13 22:03:46 <gjs278> well even then... doesn't explain why it's git instead of just an rsync without --delete
2665 2011-04-13 22:03:48 amiller has joined
2666 2011-04-13 22:04:01 <gjs278> unless you really do delete emails and then go fetch them back
2667 2011-04-13 22:04:02 <luke-jr> gjs278: rsync would take forever, wouldn't handle renames without --delete, etc
2668 2011-04-13 22:04:22 <luke-jr> gjs278: 750,000 files is a lot to index and compare
2669 2011-04-13 22:04:40 <gjs278> 750,000 text files is nothing
2670 2011-04-13 22:04:52 <luke-jr> gjs278: â¦
2671 2011-04-13 22:05:16 <lfm> its a lot for a pentium II
2672 2011-04-13 22:05:23 Lachesis has joined
2673 2011-04-13 22:05:57 <luke-jr> gjs278: it's a lot of transfer, to do every minute
2674 2011-04-13 22:06:19 <luke-jr> rather than git just pushing a few bytes when it KNOWS exactly what changed
2675 2011-04-13 22:07:11 <gjs278> okay so you get a new email on your mail server
2676 2011-04-13 22:07:22 <gjs278> does it then add it to the git repo, and your computer fetches from them?
2677 2011-04-13 22:07:53 agricocb has joined
2678 2011-04-13 22:08:33 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2679 2011-04-13 22:09:58 <ersi> luke-jr: why would you cut down on inodes?
2680 2011-04-13 22:13:09 Stonetz has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2681 2011-04-13 22:13:45 <luke-jr> ersi: more room for blocks
2682 2011-04-13 22:13:51 Kiba has joined
2683 2011-04-13 22:14:09 <luke-jr> gjs278: the mail server adds it, waits a few seconds before committing, waits a few more before pushign
2684 2011-04-13 22:14:37 <gjs278> has it ever had a conflict when trying to do the add/commit
2685 2011-04-13 22:14:40 <gjs278> do you have error monitoring on it
2686 2011-04-13 22:14:57 <luke-jr> a conflict?
2687 2011-04-13 22:15:05 <gjs278> you've never had a commit fail because of a problem?
2688 2011-04-13 22:15:28 <luke-jr> there's no branching/merging going on..
2689 2011-04-13 22:15:38 <luke-jr> https://gitorious.org/gitbackup/gitbackup/blobs/master/gitbackup.c
2690 2011-04-13 22:16:51 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
2691 2011-04-13 22:17:01 <luke-jr> gjs278: since going live in 2009, it's restarted 44 times, and I haven't noticed any inconsistencies
2692 2011-04-13 22:17:04 zenfoo has joined
2693 2011-04-13 22:17:51 <gjs278> line 503 and line 504 need another tab, restart it 45 times after that crucial change
2694 2011-04-13 22:18:27 <luke-jr> gjs278: I don't indent lines unless I modify them :P
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2699 2011-04-13 22:25:46 <genjix> so the wallet database is a bunch of key, val encoded pairs of data
2700 2011-04-13 22:27:32 <sipa> basically, yes
2701 2011-04-13 22:27:53 <genjix> each key starts with a single byte that says the datatype (as an enum) for the rest of the key
2702 2011-04-13 22:28:57 <genjix> 253-255 for little endian unsigned short/unsigned int/unsigned long long
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2732 2011-04-13 23:34:18 <xelister> ;; tell later diablo3d some problems with your miner... which git versions are stable actually? some of git versions work horribly wrong (e.g -40% performance on 5970
2733 2011-04-13 23:34:18 <gribble> Error: I haven't seen later, I'll let you do the telling.
2734 2011-04-13 23:34:24 <xelister> ;; tell diablo3d some problems with your miner... which git versions are stable actually? some of git versions work horribly wrong (e.g -40% performance on 5970)
2735 2011-04-13 23:34:24 <gribble> Error: I haven't seen diablo3d, I'll let you do the telling.
2736 2011-04-13 23:34:31 <xelister> ;; later diablo3d some problems with your miner... which git versions are stable actually? some of git versions work horribly wrong (e.g -40% performance on 5970)
2737 2011-04-13 23:34:31 <gribble> Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "diablo3d" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
2738 2011-04-13 23:34:35 <xelister> what is his damn nick
2739 2011-04-13 23:34:36 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2740 2011-04-13 23:34:37 <xelister> ;; seen diablo
2741 2011-04-13 23:34:37 <gribble> I have not seen diablo.
2742 2011-04-13 23:34:39 <xelister> ;; seen diablo3d
2743 2011-04-13 23:34:40 <gribble> I have not seen diablo3d.
2744 2011-04-13 23:35:00 <xelister> ;; seen diablo-d3
2745 2011-04-13 23:35:00 <gribble> diablo-d3 was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 9 hours, 29 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: who cares, Art is like a fucking millionare now
2746 2011-04-13 23:35:14 <xelister> ;; later diablo-d3 some problems with your miner... which git versions are stable actually? some of git versions work horribly wrong (e.g -40% performance on 5970)
2747 2011-04-13 23:35:14 <gribble> Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "diablo-d3" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
2748 2011-04-13 23:35:17 <xelister> ;; tell diablo-d3 some problems with your miner... which git versions are stable actually? some of git versions work horribly wrong (e.g -40% performance on 5970)
2749 2011-04-13 23:35:17 <gribble> Error: I haven't seen diablo-d3, I'll let you do the telling.
2750 2011-04-13 23:35:26 <xelister> blargh.
2751 2011-04-13 23:35:29 <xelister> ;; tell later diablo-d3 some problems with your miner... which git versions are stable actually? some of git versions work horribly wrong (e.g -40% performance on 5970)
2752 2011-04-13 23:35:30 <gribble> Error: I haven't seen later, I'll let you do the telling.
2753 2011-04-13 23:35:59 <xelister> ;; seen dicks
2754 2011-04-13 23:35:59 <gribble> dicks was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 5 days, 4 hours, 23 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <dicks> "*Squirt!*" (on Freenode). btw. i seen the dicks when I joined Ati devel team in sucking them LOL :D
2755 2011-04-13 23:36:11 toffoo_ has quit (Client Quit)
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2757 2011-04-13 23:39:11 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2758 2011-04-13 23:39:53 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2759 2011-04-13 23:43:42 <nanotube> xelister: it is 'later tell'
2760 2011-04-13 23:44:09 skyewm has joined
2761 2011-04-13 23:44:34 <sipa> ;;tell nanotube later about santa claus
2762 2011-04-13 23:45:12 <nanotube> er... thanks sipa? :) heh
2763 2011-04-13 23:45:29 <sipa> ;;tell sipa a story
2764 2011-04-13 23:45:41 <sipa> 01:42:32 <gribble> sipa wants me to tell you: a story
2765 2011-04-13 23:46:15 <xelister> ;; later tell diablo-d3 some problems with your miner... which git versions are stable actually? some of git versions work horribly wrong (e.g -40% performance on 5970)
2766 2011-04-13 23:46:15 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2767 2011-04-13 23:46:18 <sipa> so there's "tell" and "later tell", are there any other "later" commands?
2768 2011-04-13 23:46:24 <xelister> ;; later tell nanotube this bot's command piss me off
2769 2011-04-13 23:46:25 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2770 2011-04-13 23:46:27 dbitcoin has joined
2771 2011-04-13 23:46:47 tenach has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2772 2011-04-13 23:46:48 <xelister> ;; help later
2773 2011-04-13 23:46:48 <gribble> Error: There is no command "later".
2774 2011-04-13 23:46:51 <nanotube> sipa: use the 'list' command to your advantage. :)
2775 2011-04-13 23:46:52 <xelister> ;; help later tell
2776 2011-04-13 23:46:52 <gribble> (later tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is in seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
2777 2011-04-13 23:46:57 <nanotube> ;;list later
2778 2011-04-13 23:46:57 <gribble> notes, remove, and tell
2779 2011-04-13 23:47:18 <nanotube> xelister: don't like it don't use it :)
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