1 2011-04-16 00:03:59 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2 2011-04-16 00:04:32 <cosurgi> sipa: can you share the gnuplot data that you are using for plotting difficulty?
3 2011-04-16 00:05:15 <cosurgi> sipa: I'd like to try plotting it myself, if you don't mind :)
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27 2011-04-16 00:37:13 <EvanR> is there a spreadsheet of historical difficulty adjustments
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29 2011-04-16 00:37:16 <gjs278> what's the min power supply wattage for two 5870's
30 2011-04-16 00:41:31 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, they'll pull 188W each
31 2011-04-16 00:44:47 dreamer_ has joined
32 2011-04-16 00:45:50 <gjs278> ty kind sir
33 2011-04-16 00:53:36 <dreamer_> MagicalTux : I still haven't had my issue resolved.. how do I even contact Morpheus, he leaves no public email address
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37 2011-04-16 01:02:55 <EvanR> whats the best motherboard for two 5970s?
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45 2011-04-16 01:20:43 <eternal1> do you think someone, someday will create specialized hardware, to mine bitcoins ?
46 2011-04-16 01:21:26 <tcatm> that day was somewhere in december IIRC
47 2011-04-16 01:21:54 <EvanR> eternal1: ArtForz already did
48 2011-04-16 01:22:12 <eternal1> wow
49 2011-04-16 01:23:58 SykeP has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
50 2011-04-16 01:24:32 <eternal1> but, no GPU. only hardware ... like the ones use in cryptography to discover a key
51 2011-04-16 01:24:58 <krytzz> he used fpgas i think
52 2011-04-16 01:25:31 <krytzz> not an asic but quite
53 2011-04-16 01:27:42 <tcatm> he used something between FPGA and ASICs. i.e. only custom routing layer.
54 2011-04-16 01:28:24 <krytzz> really? oh cool
55 2011-04-16 01:32:36 <noagendamarket> http://twitter.com/#!/SecAndSecTech/status/57626593480282112 whats this guy going on about scanning bitcoin ports ?
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58 2011-04-16 01:37:28 <krytzz> noagendamarket: well bugs in the bitcoin software are totally possible
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60 2011-04-16 01:37:47 <gjs278> he's noob
61 2011-04-16 01:37:53 <tcatm> no portscan needed, just parse addr.dat
62 2011-04-16 01:38:27 <krytzz> the twitter guy? he is a "cyber security expert"
63 2011-04-16 01:38:50 <krytzz> :p
64 2011-04-16 01:39:25 <purplezky> are transactions required to have multiple out streams ?
65 2011-04-16 01:39:39 taco_the_paco has joined
66 2011-04-16 01:40:36 <purplezky> just wondering if i implement a transaction with a single out stream if i break specifications
67 2011-04-16 01:40:43 <noagendamarket> lawl
68 2011-04-16 01:41:02 <noagendamarket> maybe he works with the cyber police and is backtracing everyone
69 2011-04-16 01:41:11 <tcatm> purplezky: one output is okay
70 2011-04-16 01:41:19 <noagendamarket> :)-
71 2011-04-16 01:43:45 <purplezky> noagendamarket: don't think so, he says in his tweet that he is waiting for a 0day exploit... like somebody is going to hand that to him instead of patching lol
72 2011-04-16 01:44:25 <krytzz> right
73 2011-04-16 01:44:57 <krytzz> just be sure to backup your wallet file
74 2011-04-16 01:45:14 <noagendamarket> purplezky ah ok
75 2011-04-16 01:45:27 <krytzz> if something bad happens
76 2011-04-16 01:46:32 <krytzz> there is only one worst-case scenario i think: if somebody really finds a 0-day and is able to transfer all coins to some account
77 2011-04-16 01:47:25 <krytzz> or not all coins but all under the control of current connected nodes of course
78 2011-04-16 01:48:10 <purplezky> well he will have to send them somewhere
79 2011-04-16 01:48:13 <noagendamarket> just hack your machine and take the wallet.dat
80 2011-04-16 01:48:38 <krytzz> purplezky: yeah but this isnt a problem, isnt it?
81 2011-04-16 01:51:04 <purplezky> sure there might be bugs that creep into a release accidently, but chances are small that they would be exploitable
82 2011-04-16 01:51:57 <krytzz> noagendamarket: thats always possbile but a 0-day would be a threat to all nodes at once
83 2011-04-16 01:52:27 <purplezky> it would be safer though if the wallet repository and net node would run as 2 seperate processes under different credentials
84 2011-04-16 01:52:57 <krytzz> or you use several accounts
85 2011-04-16 01:53:01 <krytzz> one saving account
86 2011-04-16 01:53:22 <krytzz> like you dont carry all your money with you
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88 2011-04-16 01:54:10 <purplezky> or have spending limits which require an extra password when reached
89 2011-04-16 01:54:39 <krytzz> could help, but for a 0-day you perhaps could go around that
90 2011-04-16 01:54:50 <krytzz> if the password isnt tied to encryption
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98 2011-04-16 02:22:26 <sacarlson> are the accounts numbers just created by the client with a random number and then just verified it doesn't exsist yet? if so why don't they make the first 4 leters the code for the version of the bitcoin and also codes for new types that people can read with there eye's when they see them
99 2011-04-16 02:25:01 <kiba> sacarlson: no, they don't verify if it exists yet
100 2011-04-16 02:25:36 <sacarlson> kiba ok but it's still created by the client is it not?
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103 2011-04-16 02:26:14 <kiba> dunno how key generation works except that it have something to do with cryptography and very large prime number
104 2011-04-16 02:27:13 <sacarlson> kiba well if the number must be the same then just add a text leader to the original number that is pulled off before the number is sent to or checked
105 2011-04-16 02:28:14 <kiba> the likelyhood of generating the same number that somebody have is damn small
106 2011-04-16 02:28:15 <kiba> plus
107 2011-04-16 02:28:33 <sacarlson> kiba as I had the problem with testnet were my version was wrong and it wouldn't work since I ran version 2.19 and the other sent me 2.20.X tbtc there should be a way to see with my eye's that it won't work
108 2011-04-16 02:28:34 <kiba> there's no way to prove which one of you have ownership of bitcoin
109 2011-04-16 02:29:01 <kiba> that probably have nothing to do with the cryptography used in bitcoin
110 2011-04-16 02:30:32 <sacarlson> kiba it has to do with the reset on that version, and since I plan to make new coin with other base code I will make mine distribute with an added code
111 2011-04-16 02:31:39 <sacarlson> I will add a 4 leter leader to the code to identify that it uses a different key to check it
112 2011-04-16 02:33:03 eao has joined
113 2011-04-16 02:37:35 <sacarlson> I have a new version now compiled that can change the hashGenesisBlock and ntime and nnounce so you can change to new coin in the future
114 2011-04-16 02:37:44 Lachesis has joined
115 2011-04-16 02:38:18 <[Noodles]> why would you want to change to new coin in the future?
116 2011-04-16 02:38:25 <krytzz> for the testnet?
117 2011-04-16 02:38:52 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: to trade different things not just money as we do in the NYSE
118 2011-04-16 02:38:53 <[Noodles]> well, testnet is for testing, difficulty got that hard that testing was almost impossible
119 2011-04-16 02:39:06 <[Noodles]> that's why it has been reset
120 2011-04-16 02:39:36 <[Noodles]> then create different blockchains, dont switch from old to new
121 2011-04-16 02:40:03 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: if difficulty on this system then you would just go to an exchange station to get a 2/1 split
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123 2011-04-16 02:40:23 <[Noodles]> huh?
124 2011-04-16 02:40:43 <krytzz> what are you talking about? probably nobody will accept a new coin or do you mean for testing purposes?
125 2011-04-16 02:41:21 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: there could be places where you exchange other bitcoin with an exchange as we do now at mtgox
126 2011-04-16 02:41:40 <[Noodles]> yeah, got that
127 2011-04-16 02:42:07 <krytzz> good luck, but you need a damn good reason for a new coin
128 2011-04-16 02:42:24 <[Noodles]> but why do you ant to create NYSEcoins and then later switch to newNYSEcoins?
129 2011-04-16 02:42:37 <[Noodles]> that's whaat makes no sense to me
130 2011-04-16 02:42:37 <sacarlson> krytzz: at this time it's just an extension of test and a way to test my new exchange but later hope to point each coin group to an thing like a comodity or corporation shares
131 2011-04-16 02:42:53 <krytzz> sacarlson: ah ok
132 2011-04-16 02:43:06 <kiba> that's a waste of time
133 2011-04-16 02:43:17 <kiba> just go with standard cryptography tool
134 2011-04-16 02:43:21 jb55 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
135 2011-04-16 02:43:56 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: well you tell me why did you reset the testnet code. I guess it might be for the same resoon
136 2011-04-16 02:44:17 <[Noodles]> krytzz: there are alternative blockchains already, those marsian-coins for example (a game-currency)
137 2011-04-16 02:44:53 <[Noodles]> well, as said, testnet is called TESTnet for a reason, it's to test clients and miners, which can be very very hard if the difficulty is highh
138 2011-04-16 02:44:58 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: yes I spoke with one of the game coiners yestarday and he liked the idea
139 2011-04-16 02:45:11 <[Noodles]> in a running blockchain though it's a GOOD thing to have a HIGH difficulty
140 2011-04-16 02:45:24 <[Noodles]> and the longest possible chain#
141 2011-04-16 02:45:42 <[Noodles]> so it makes no sense to *reset* from time to time, it hurts badly
142 2011-04-16 02:46:06 <krytzz> [Noodles]: ah ok, cant think of a reason for an alternative blockchain though
143 2011-04-16 02:46:23 <krytzz> instead of testing
144 2011-04-16 02:46:28 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: well at least with this method if you do reset your client will still be able to tell why it can't send it
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146 2011-04-16 02:48:51 <[Noodles]> well, you'll delete everyones holdings, why should people allow you to? how to force people to switch?
147 2011-04-16 02:49:05 jb55 has joined
148 2011-04-16 02:50:42 <[Noodles]> think about what happens if we reset the main-chain, guess some people (including me) might not like that and just won't update to your version
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150 2011-04-16 02:52:52 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: how do corporations go bankrupt? the same way you liquidate all assets or someone buys them all out
151 2011-04-16 02:53:27 <[Noodles]> well, you just can't do that once your network grows
152 2011-04-16 02:53:59 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, that would fail, the main miners would continue and the chain wouldn't die
153 2011-04-16 02:54:13 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: well if it stays healthy that's fine then it lives on
154 2011-04-16 02:54:27 <[Noodles]> you've seen yourself that even the old testnet-blockchain isnt dead yet
155 2011-04-16 02:54:35 <[Noodles]> it's still there
156 2011-04-16 02:54:42 <[Noodles]> and still in use
157 2011-04-16 02:55:31 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: yes and I also see that general motors stock shares still trade even when they are worthless but that's up to the people that trade them
158 2011-04-16 02:56:44 <[Noodles]> well, you're starting creating a worthless new chain, why should i want to switch? because it's easier for you to generate on lower difficulty?
159 2011-04-16 02:58:48 <[Noodles]> the longer chain is the stronger one, you can of course create an alternate chain, to offer another currency, but resetting makes no sense, everyone will lose
160 2011-04-16 02:59:12 <krytzz> no, late adopters will win :p
161 2011-04-16 02:59:29 <[Noodles]> no, they will just lose less
162 2011-04-16 02:59:39 <krytzz> which is a win
163 2011-04-16 02:59:57 <krytzz> if they mine afterwards
164 2011-04-16 03:00:20 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: I havn't ironed out all that much yet but I can still posibly make it more dificult to produce after some number of coins are produced so the first set of coins start from the organization that starts it then later the coins jump to a very much more difficult number
165 2011-04-16 03:01:33 robotarmy has joined
166 2011-04-16 03:01:36 <[Noodles]> huh? and make it harder for those now-early-birds?
167 2011-04-16 03:02:03 <[Noodles]> however, why do you want to reset in the first place, that's what i dont get
168 2011-04-16 03:02:24 <[Noodles]> why could someone possibly want that to happen?
169 2011-04-16 03:02:30 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: at the start the creation of coin is kept private just as most companies are, then later you sell off your holdings to want to be share holders
170 2011-04-16 03:03:14 <[Noodles]> sure, generate trhem all, sell them, reset, repeat
171 2011-04-16 03:03:18 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: why do people buy IBM or CISCO? same reson they like the idea of what the group does or what it holds
172 2011-04-16 03:03:40 <Blitzboom> pleaso do build your own currency
173 2011-04-16 03:03:53 <Blitzboom> but then stop leeching from the bitcoin infrastructure
174 2011-04-16 03:04:22 <[Noodles]> and your group does exactly that, generate->sell->reset->repeat, to make invinite profit, nice idea, but i doubt it'll work
175 2011-04-16 03:04:30 <sacarlson> Blitzboom: that was already in the plan to use my own IRC and to keep it all private
176 2011-04-16 03:04:45 <[Noodles]> why should people buy your self-generated coins, if you are able to reset them to zero?
177 2011-04-16 03:04:49 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
178 2011-04-16 03:05:12 <[Noodles]> not to mention that's exactly what they are worth when you create them all
179 2011-04-16 03:05:22 <[Noodles]> at least to me
180 2011-04-16 03:05:33 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: you already told me you can't delete a coin just produce new ones, why do we have more than one company why doesn't the goverment just do everything
181 2011-04-16 03:06:09 <[Noodles]> yeah, you're right, every company could create a blcokchain and sell it's coins as shares of that company
182 2011-04-16 03:06:33 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: now you got the picture
183 2011-04-16 03:06:44 <[Noodles]> but that's already possible
184 2011-04-16 03:07:15 jb55 has joined
185 2011-04-16 03:08:32 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: yes posible but it just needs a bit of improvment to identify what account or base chain it links to so the one that gets the number can see with his eyes if he can use it that's all
186 2011-04-16 03:08:39 <[Noodles]> but what if that company decides to reset it's chain?
187 2011-04-16 03:09:03 <[Noodles]> it could sell new coins as expensive as the old ones
188 2011-04-16 03:09:11 <[Noodles]> and make twice as much money
189 2011-04-16 03:09:49 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: companies do that all the time if they need to raise more money they sell more shares in the company and with that money they grow but the original holders take a hit
190 2011-04-16 03:09:54 <[Noodles]> any ability to *reset* the blockchain isnt an improvement if you ask me, it's a main-stopper
191 2011-04-16 03:10:45 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: in this case you will never reset only add more different coins that can all be read and sent with a single client
192 2011-04-16 03:10:48 <[Noodles]> and they are free todo so with or without bitcoin-like shares, question is, if people are silly enough to pay for it
193 2011-04-16 03:11:29 <Blitzboom> add coins freely?
194 2011-04-16 03:11:35 <Blitzboom> so inflation at will
195 2011-04-16 03:11:37 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
196 2011-04-16 03:11:38 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.09,"low":0.911,"vol":53981,"buy":1.034,"sell":1.0359,"last":1.033}}
197 2011-04-16 03:11:52 <Blitzboom> or am i mistaken
198 2011-04-16 03:11:54 <[Noodles]> does it matter if he generates them all anyway?
199 2011-04-16 03:11:54 <sacarlson> [Noodles]: well I don't like to pay $10 to trade 100 shares of IBM, if I could just buy $10 of IBM with no fee's I think I would choose that
200 2011-04-16 03:12:17 <Blitzboom> interesting
201 2011-04-16 03:12:28 <Blitzboom> maybe it works because the company is bound to law and is not anonym
202 2011-04-16 03:13:13 <krytzz> yeah it only works with reputation
203 2011-04-16 03:13:48 <krytzz> stocks are just another form of fiat money
204 2011-04-16 03:14:15 <sacarlson> krytzz: what is fiat money?
205 2011-04-16 03:14:37 <krytzz> sacarlson: money with no intrinsic value
206 2011-04-16 03:15:20 <Blitzboom> bitcoin is no fiat money
207 2011-04-16 03:15:23 <sacarlson> krytzz: well you are partly correct normaly stock sell for way more than the company is worth on faith that they will be worth more in the future
208 2011-04-16 03:15:30 <Blitzboom> fiat money = legal tender
209 2011-04-16 03:15:36 <Blitzboom> enforced by the state
210 2011-04-16 03:15:43 <krytzz> Blitzboom: i meant stocks, not bitcoin
211 2011-04-16 03:15:49 <gasteve> sacarlson: that's not the correct definition of fiat money
212 2011-04-16 03:16:03 <Blitzboom> but stocks canât be fiat money either in that sense
213 2011-04-16 03:16:15 <Blitzboom> they are just a private currency
214 2011-04-16 03:17:16 <sacarlson> ok then bitcoin is not fiat it just works on trust and faith as should be all money and stocks and bonds
215 2011-04-16 03:17:41 <Blitzboom> yeah
216 2011-04-16 03:17:56 <Blitzboom> just a form of agreement
217 2011-04-16 03:18:13 <gasteve> sacarlson: gold also just works on trust and faith
218 2011-04-16 03:18:54 <gjs278> I am going freaking insane
219 2011-04-16 03:19:00 <gjs278> bitcoind will not start from monit
220 2011-04-16 03:19:01 <sacarlson> gasteve: that's another one I want a goldbcoin it's one of my first candidates with just a single $1000 worth of gold to back it
221 2011-04-16 03:19:04 <gjs278> it just refuses
222 2011-04-16 03:19:07 <gjs278> any command I give
223 2011-04-16 03:19:08 <gjs278> nothing
224 2011-04-16 03:19:25 <purplezky> gjs278: what's in ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
225 2011-04-16 03:19:32 <gjs278> it doesn't even get that far
226 2011-04-16 03:19:34 <gjs278> the problem is monit
227 2011-04-16 03:19:37 <gjs278> is a piece of junk
228 2011-04-16 03:19:38 <Blitzboom> how do you want to back a distributed currency?
229 2011-04-16 03:19:41 <gasteve> sacarlson: not sure what you mean by goldbcoin
230 2011-04-16 03:19:43 <Blitzboom> you canât without centralization
231 2011-04-16 03:19:50 <gjs278> I do /usr/bin/bitcoind > /tmp/WHYOHGODWHY.txt and nothing
232 2011-04-16 03:19:57 <gjs278> then I run it myself
233 2011-04-16 03:19:58 <Blitzboom> and bitcoin with centralization is the same shit as fiat money
234 2011-04-16 03:19:58 <gjs278> works fine
235 2011-04-16 03:20:27 <tcatm> gjs278: ?
236 2011-04-16 03:20:38 <gjs278> monit is a program for monitoring daemon processes
237 2011-04-16 03:20:42 <gjs278> monit refuses to start bitcoind
238 2011-04-16 03:20:45 <purplezky> chown :monit /usr/bin/bitcoind; cmhod g+x /usr/bin/bitcoind
239 2011-04-16 03:20:48 <gjs278> I use it for my vpn and everything else
240 2011-04-16 03:20:55 <purplezky> need to make sure it has teh rights to do so
241 2011-04-16 03:21:02 <gjs278> I made bitcoind 777 at one point
242 2011-04-16 03:21:04 <gjs278> just to see
243 2011-04-16 03:21:19 <gjs278> I'll go for the chown but I do use it on files that have only root perms
244 2011-04-16 03:21:20 <gjs278> cant hurt
245 2011-04-16 03:21:23 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
246 2011-04-16 03:21:47 <tcatm> gjs278: bitcoind will always fork
247 2011-04-16 03:21:58 dirtyfilthy has joined
248 2011-04-16 03:22:00 <gjs278> yes, except bitcoind won't even start
249 2011-04-16 03:22:02 rlifchitz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
250 2011-04-16 03:22:04 <gjs278> because if it did, I would see something
251 2011-04-16 03:22:09 <tcatm> gjs278: recent git?
252 2011-04-16 03:22:17 <gjs278> like two days ago
253 2011-04-16 03:22:23 <tcatm> strange
254 2011-04-16 03:22:24 <gjs278> it has to be monit
255 2011-04-16 03:22:30 <gjs278> because bitcoind even if failing
256 2011-04-16 03:22:33 <purplezky> gjs278: bitcoin looks for ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf but if you start as user monit it's another home directory
257 2011-04-16 03:22:34 <gjs278> would give me some kind of feedback
258 2011-04-16 03:22:39 <gjs278> that's true
259 2011-04-16 03:22:51 <gjs278> I'll have to tell it to do it as the ~ uid
260 2011-04-16 03:22:54 rlifchitz has joined
261 2011-04-16 03:23:05 <tcatm> does monit allocate a controlling terminal to bitcoind?
262 2011-04-16 03:24:03 <gjs278> I do it for so many programs that give feedback endlessly
263 2011-04-16 03:24:07 <gjs278> and programs that fork
264 2011-04-16 03:24:18 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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266 2011-04-16 03:24:26 <tcatm> bitcoind has a rather unclean forking mechanism
267 2011-04-16 03:24:31 <sacarlson> gjs278: maybe try add to config printtoconsole=1
268 2011-04-16 03:25:28 <gjs278> I've turned off every program
269 2011-04-16 03:25:33 <gjs278> bitcoin is the only one it's trying now
270 2011-04-16 03:25:50 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
271 2011-04-16 03:25:56 <gjs278> [CDT Apr 15 22:22:04] info : 'bitcoind' start: /usr/bin/bitcoind
272 2011-04-16 03:25:57 <gjs278> [CDT Apr 15 22:22:34] error : 'bitcoind' failed to start
273 2011-04-16 03:26:17 <purplezky> hmm is there a bitcoin faucet for testnet ?
274 2011-04-16 03:26:31 <sacarlson> purplezky: yes there is
275 2011-04-16 03:26:38 <tcatm> purplezky: address and how many?
276 2011-04-16 03:27:15 <sacarlson> purplezky: but seems to be broken https://freebitcoins.appspot.com/test/
277 2011-04-16 03:27:40 <purplezky> tcatm: mjYumsS1edsNHbBt3cbXQMekStzfMUuhED just some coins so i can test
278 2011-04-16 03:27:52 <purplezky> i'm prototyping some ideas for bitdns
279 2011-04-16 03:27:53 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
280 2011-04-16 03:28:02 <witten> is it possible to influence which "fork" of a double spend gets included in the block chain by attaching a large transaction fee to one transaction?
281 2011-04-16 03:28:04 <tcatm> sent
282 2011-04-16 03:28:05 dirtyfilthy has joined
283 2011-04-16 03:28:09 <purplezky> thx
284 2011-04-16 03:28:30 <MBS> so anyone know a way to get my 5770 to run at full clock speed all the time? have it set to 900, but pretty much stays at 600, i mean 900 might kill it but i at least want to see if i can get higher performance than an average of 100Mh
285 2011-04-16 03:28:44 taco_the_paco has joined
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288 2011-04-16 03:33:44 <gjs278> I'm restarting
289 2011-04-16 03:33:46 <gjs278> this is retarded
290 2011-04-16 03:34:03 <gjs278> fuck you monit
291 2011-04-16 03:34:11 <sacarlson> gjs278: windows? or linux
292 2011-04-16 03:34:16 <gjs278> lolnix
293 2011-04-16 03:34:23 <gjs278> if I manually start
294 2011-04-16 03:34:26 <gjs278> it picks up the process
295 2011-04-16 03:34:30 <gjs278> if I tell monit to start
296 2011-04-16 03:34:36 <gjs278> execution "fails"
297 2011-04-16 03:35:04 Cusipzzz has joined
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300 2011-04-16 03:37:44 <purplezky> maybe use sudo to make sure it's running under the correct user
301 2011-04-16 03:38:19 <purplezky> i bet that is the problem, it can't find ~/.bitcoin/*
302 2011-04-16 03:38:30 <gjs278> shouldnt bitcoin > /tmp/why.txt give me something
303 2011-04-16 03:38:31 <gjs278> I mean
304 2011-04-16 03:38:34 <gjs278> why.txt doesn't even get made
305 2011-04-16 03:38:39 <gjs278> it should at least showup blank
306 2011-04-16 03:39:07 <tcatm> how do I configure monit to start bitcoind?
307 2011-04-16 03:39:23 <gjs278> http://www.garyshood.com/bitcoin/monitrc
308 2011-04-16 03:39:36 <purplezky> then use a bash script instead that does echo "test">/tmp/test to test if it fails starting a process or just fails starting bitcoind
309 2011-04-16 03:39:38 <gjs278> you need the latest bitcoin
310 2011-04-16 03:39:45 <gjs278> yeah I'm going to try the bash scrpt next
311 2011-04-16 03:39:52 <gjs278> right now I set a crontab to try and start bitcoind
312 2011-04-16 03:39:59 <gjs278> so let's see if that goes
313 2011-04-16 03:40:08 <gjs278> it did
314 2011-04-16 03:40:18 <gjs278> pid matches
315 2011-04-16 03:41:52 <gjs278> 'echo test > /tmp/test.txt' timeout 30 second(s)
316 2011-04-16 03:44:16 redengin_ has joined
317 2011-04-16 03:44:33 <gjs278> cat /tmp/test.txt
318 2011-04-16 03:44:36 <gjs278> test
319 2011-04-16 03:44:41 <sacarlson> purplezky: I'm going to send you two coin on testnet for some of my testing if your still running
320 2011-04-16 03:44:50 <gjs278> restarting and then throwing computer out of window if that fails
321 2011-04-16 03:44:54 <kiba> dunno
322 2011-04-16 03:44:55 <kiba> why
323 2011-04-16 03:45:03 <kiba> my magazine's title is aligned to the right
324 2011-04-16 03:45:05 <kiba> http://bitcoinweekly.com/
325 2011-04-16 03:46:52 <gjs278> change it to left
326 2011-04-16 03:46:55 <gjs278> and it will be centered
327 2011-04-16 03:47:18 <gjs278> because
328 2011-04-16 03:47:20 <gjs278> you didn't clear
329 2011-04-16 03:47:21 <gjs278> your float
330 2011-04-16 03:47:23 <gjs278> on the li's
331 2011-04-16 03:47:25 <gjs278> boom roasted
332 2011-04-16 03:47:38 <purplezky> sacarlson: sure
333 2011-04-16 03:47:51 <gjs278> after div id nav just do <div style="clear:both;"></div>
334 2011-04-16 03:47:55 <gjs278> and then you'll be fine
335 2011-04-16 03:47:57 bitcoiner has joined
336 2011-04-16 03:48:05 <gjs278> right now it's lining itself against the edge of your float though
337 2011-04-16 03:48:13 <sacarlson> purplezky: ok now sent
338 2011-04-16 03:48:31 <gjs278> highlighting kiba so he can read this
339 2011-04-16 03:49:08 <kiba> fixed
340 2011-04-16 03:49:23 <kiba> and independently discover it too
341 2011-04-16 03:49:31 <gjs278> did you update it?
342 2011-04-16 03:49:31 <purplezky> i can see the transaction
343 2011-04-16 03:49:36 <gjs278> I still get righty
344 2011-04-16 03:49:51 <kiba> about to update it
345 2011-04-16 03:51:09 <gjs278> http://bitcoinweekly.com/articles pad these
346 2011-04-16 03:51:21 <gjs278> text touching border is aids for my eyes
347 2011-04-16 03:52:07 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
348 2011-04-16 03:52:12 Stellar has joined
349 2011-04-16 03:56:08 gjs278 has joined
350 2011-04-16 03:56:13 <kiba> gjs278: gottach...
351 2011-04-16 03:56:14 <kiba> hmm
352 2011-04-16 03:57:37 redengin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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359 2011-04-16 04:07:03 <gjs278> I give up
360 2011-04-16 04:07:08 <gjs278> if anyone else can get it to run in monit
361 2011-04-16 04:07:09 <gjs278> let me know
362 2011-04-16 04:08:04 tenach_ has joined
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364 2011-04-16 04:08:16 joepie91 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
365 2011-04-16 04:08:20 <kiba> I got a promotional success!
366 2011-04-16 04:08:23 tenach_ is now known as tenach
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369 2011-04-16 04:08:29 <kiba> gjs278: give up what?
370 2011-04-16 04:08:38 <gjs278> on making bitcoind start with monit
371 2011-04-16 04:08:53 <gjs278> execution fails everytime
372 2011-04-16 04:09:01 <gjs278> I've made the binary completely owned by monit
373 2011-04-16 04:09:04 <gjs278> I've started it as root
374 2011-04-16 04:09:10 <gjs278> I've made the binary 777
375 2011-04-16 04:09:13 <gjs278> I put it somewhere else
376 2011-04-16 04:09:14 <gjs278> renamed it
377 2011-04-16 04:09:18 <gjs278> bash script started it
378 2011-04-16 04:09:18 joepie91 has joined
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380 2011-04-16 04:09:48 skeledrew has joined
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384 2011-04-16 04:18:35 <purplezky> join #bitcoin
385 2011-04-16 04:22:25 <gjs278> done
386 2011-04-16 04:25:45 LightRider has joined
387 2011-04-16 04:27:00 <jgarzik> MoneyLaundering.com's article on bitcoin: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5907.0
388 2011-04-16 04:27:16 skeledrew1 has joined
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393 2011-04-16 04:40:24 <noagendamarket> thanks jgarzik
394 2011-04-16 04:40:33 <noagendamarket> interesting read there
395 2011-04-16 04:41:11 Jkessler has joined
396 2011-04-16 04:41:11 <noagendamarket> I like how they say bitcoin "could" do this aND IT "COULD" DO THAT
397 2011-04-16 04:45:04 <Jkessler> i'm running windows 7 home premium 64 sp1, radeon hd 5770, 4 gb ram. I run the mystify screensaver every 2 mins my machine is idle for my tv and since in installed the latest bitcoin client it crashes when it goes to screensaver. is this known?
398 2011-04-16 04:51:46 Dark_Ghost has joined
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400 2011-04-16 04:55:44 <gjs278> try just having the monitor turn off
401 2011-04-16 04:57:02 <Jkessler> lol
402 2011-04-16 04:57:06 <Jkessler> i will
403 2011-04-16 04:57:18 <Jkessler> it just looks better when customers come in
404 2011-04-16 04:57:35 <B0g4r7> "it crashes" -- what crashes? bitcoind?
405 2011-04-16 04:57:43 <Jkessler> no the mystify screensaver
406 2011-04-16 04:57:54 <Jkessler> "the application mystify has stopped responding"
407 2011-04-16 04:58:34 <B0g4r7> Why do you think bitcoin causes that?
408 2011-04-16 04:58:42 <Jkessler> not sure
409 2011-04-16 04:58:44 <Jkessler> err
410 2011-04-16 04:59:13 <B0g4r7> To rephrase, what logic do you use to conclude that bitcoin is the cause of the screensaver not working?
411 2011-04-16 04:59:38 <Jkessler> doesn't bitcoin use gpu to generate coins? and it's the most recent thing i installed
412 2011-04-16 04:59:52 <B0g4r7> No.
413 2011-04-16 04:59:54 <Jkessler> just wondering if there was an issue
414 2011-04-16 04:59:57 <B0g4r7> Not bitcoin.exe.
415 2011-04-16 05:00:30 <B0g4r7> The generator in bitcoin.exe uses the cpu(s) only.
416 2011-04-16 05:01:05 <Jkessler> oh ok
417 2011-04-16 05:02:44 redengin_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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421 2011-04-16 05:10:50 <noagendamarket> http://www.griffinteam.net/cms/?page_id=37 LAWL Mt Box!!!
422 2011-04-16 05:13:39 <kiba> noagendamarket: I propose we rename mtgox.com to mtgrok.com
423 2011-04-16 05:13:47 <kiba> get it? Mount Grok?
424 2011-04-16 05:13:53 <noagendamarket> :)-
425 2011-04-16 05:13:56 <kiba> the mountain of understanding!
426 2011-04-16 05:14:01 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: doesn't support USB 3
427 2011-04-16 05:15:56 eao has joined
428 2011-04-16 05:21:26 da2ceZzzz is now known as da2ce7
429 2011-04-16 05:24:37 DavidSJ has joined
430 2011-04-16 05:24:40 <DavidSJ> join #bitcoin-discussion
431 2011-04-16 05:24:43 <DavidSJ> oops
432 2011-04-16 05:26:03 <gjs278> ohhh
433 2011-04-16 05:26:04 <gjs278> now I get it
434 2011-04-16 05:26:09 <gjs278> he wasnt telling us to join #bitcoin
435 2011-04-16 05:26:11 <gjs278> he was trying to do it
436 2011-04-16 05:26:27 <gjs278> purplezky you owe me 5 seconds of my life back
437 2011-04-16 05:26:34 <gjs278> I thought something was actually happening in #bitcoin
438 2011-04-16 05:27:05 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
439 2011-04-16 05:27:10 skeledrew has joined
440 2011-04-16 05:27:43 <gjs278> I got the monit to work
441 2011-04-16 05:27:47 <gjs278> you have to manually set datadir
442 2011-04-16 05:27:55 <gjs278> it does not care what user you run it as
443 2011-04-16 05:28:01 <gjs278> it tries
444 2011-04-16 05:28:01 lorhko has joined
445 2011-04-16 05:28:05 <gjs278> /.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
446 2011-04-16 05:28:06 <gjs278> every time
447 2011-04-16 05:28:08 <gjs278> no ~ or anything
448 2011-04-16 05:28:21 <gjs278> I guess because $HOME isn't set for monit or someting dumb
449 2011-04-16 05:28:33 <gjs278> either way, set datadir, monit works
450 2011-04-16 05:29:55 <SykeP> can monit tell when bitcoind goes non-responsive?
451 2011-04-16 05:31:23 <gjs278> yes
452 2011-04-16 05:31:30 <gjs278> because he it can check the port that the json is on
453 2011-04-16 05:31:32 <gjs278> 8332
454 2011-04-16 05:31:38 <gjs278> and if it doesn't respond, stop bitcoind, restart
455 2011-04-16 05:31:38 jb55 has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
456 2011-04-16 05:31:50 <gjs278> that's why it's perfect for this
457 2011-04-16 05:32:10 <SykeP> nice
458 2011-04-16 05:33:16 <gjs278> I just killed bitcoind, checking to see if it picks that up. then I have to set the port to 8333 and see if it can detect that 8332 is down
459 2011-04-16 05:36:09 <gjs278> caught the kill, time to port change
460 2011-04-16 05:36:43 devon_hillard has joined
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462 2011-04-16 05:39:01 <gjs278> caught the port change
463 2011-04-16 05:44:33 <gjs278> http://www.garyshood.com/bitcoin/monitrc is the valid config if any pool owners want to prevent bitcoind from going down
464 2011-04-16 05:44:38 <gjs278> well
465 2011-04-16 05:44:39 <gjs278> not prevent
466 2011-04-16 05:44:44 <gjs278> but catch it and auto restart at least
467 2011-04-16 05:44:52 <gjs278> only have to update datadir to match what you want
468 2011-04-16 05:48:30 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
469 2011-04-16 05:48:31 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.09,"low":0.9503,"vol":25127,"buy":1.05,"sell":1.057,"last":1.0383}}
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485 2011-04-16 06:15:48 <gjs278> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5911.msg87113 guide here for monit
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487 2011-04-16 06:30:39 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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503 2011-04-16 06:58:39 <phantomcircuit> so i had a thought
504 2011-04-16 06:58:42 <gjs278> let's hear it
505 2011-04-16 06:59:41 <phantomcircuit> instead of signing the transactions like that
506 2011-04-16 07:00:16 <phantomcircuit> why not just sign the transaction hash and the transaction index
507 2011-04-16 07:01:13 <phantomcircuit> you have no idea what im talking about do you
508 2011-04-16 07:02:52 <gjs278> patches are welcome!!!!
509 2011-04-16 07:03:58 <phantomcircuit> is that a no?
510 2011-04-16 07:04:42 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
511 2011-04-16 07:05:08 Teslah has joined
512 2011-04-16 07:05:15 <gjs278> I don't want to lie to you
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526 2011-04-16 07:45:57 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stats
527 2011-04-16 07:45:59 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118614 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 329 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 25 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 92052.67719741
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534 2011-04-16 08:22:22 antivigilante has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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548 2011-04-16 08:47:44 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r4368aa0da9bb intersango/deposit.php: corrected typo in bank name. http://tinyurl.com/3v6j62f
549 2011-04-16 08:50:01 Cooo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
550 2011-04-16 09:02:39 <BlueMatt> witten: pign
551 2011-04-16 09:03:29 Dark_Ghost has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
552 2011-04-16 09:06:20 TheAncientGoat has joined
553 2011-04-16 09:06:56 <BlueMatt> can anyone else get bitcoin to segfault when you block all incoming packets via iptables and run bitcoin with upnp enabled?
554 2011-04-16 09:08:03 <lfm> équit brb
555 2011-04-16 09:08:12 lfm has quit (Quit: brb)
556 2011-04-16 09:08:56 lfm has joined
557 2011-04-16 09:09:13 <lfm> block incoming packets? or incoming connections?
558 2011-04-16 09:11:34 <BlueMatt> packets
559 2011-04-16 09:11:40 <BlueMatt> iptables -A INPUT -j DROP
560 2011-04-16 09:12:33 <lfm> if you drop all incomming packets then you are totally cut off from the net
561 2011-04-16 09:12:47 <BlueMatt> yea and apparently that makes bitcoin segfault
562 2011-04-16 09:12:51 <BlueMatt> (with upnp enabled)
563 2011-04-16 09:13:50 <lfm> well I spoze it shouldnt really segfault but I am not gonna take any of my machines offa the net
564 2011-04-16 09:14:18 <BlueMatt> not for 10 secs to test?
565 2011-04-16 09:14:57 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
566 2011-04-16 09:15:01 <lfm> I dont have that version of bitcoin yet anyway
567 2011-04-16 09:15:08 <gjs278> can't wait until someone tries that on their ssh hosting
568 2011-04-16 09:16:19 <lfm> i think that iptables command is for incoming connections anyway isnt it? no all packets?
569 2011-04-16 09:16:28 <sipa> where do i download miniupnp?
570 2011-04-16 09:16:33 <sipa> or what version do i need?
571 2011-04-16 09:16:56 <gjs278> if you do iptables -A INPUT -j DROP you will definitely drop
572 2011-04-16 09:16:56 <lfm> does it tell you in build-unix.txt?
573 2011-04-16 09:17:12 <gjs278> http://miniupnp.tuxfamily.org/files/
574 2011-04-16 09:17:13 <sipa> oh, nice
575 2011-04-16 09:17:18 <gjs278> go with whatever version
576 2011-04-16 09:17:28 <gjs278> 1.5 is mine
577 2011-04-16 09:18:16 <BlueMatt> 1.5 to build unix/osx nightly binary to build win32
578 2011-04-16 09:18:34 <BlueMatt> nightly binary has a different mapport command so it wont work on the unix/osx bitcoin
579 2011-04-16 09:18:56 <BlueMatt> lfm: iptables -A INPUT is for incoming packets, iptables -A OUTPUT would be outgoing connections
580 2011-04-16 09:19:14 <BlueMatt> anyway if you need a upnp build to test with try http://bitcoin.bluematt.me/bitcoin-nightly/
581 2011-04-16 09:19:29 <sipa> i'll build it myself
582 2011-04-16 09:19:41 <BlueMatt> as I still cant reproduce witten's bug and its bugging me (no pun intended)
583 2011-04-16 09:21:36 <gjs278> didnt you just get 100 coins for explaining the windows build process
584 2011-04-16 09:21:40 <gjs278> you should be on vacation
585 2011-04-16 09:21:45 <sipa> In file included from net.cpp:10:
586 2011-04-16 09:21:45 <sipa> /usr/include/miniupnpc/upnpcommands.h:11: fatal error: portlistingparse.h: No such file or directory
587 2011-04-16 09:22:30 <BlueMatt> gjs278: yep :)
588 2011-04-16 09:22:46 <gjs278> such a ridiculous process
589 2011-04-16 09:23:03 TheAncientGoat has quit (Read error: No route to host)
590 2011-04-16 09:23:05 <BlueMatt> yea it is, but hell linking a bunch of download links for 100BTC is kinda nice :)
591 2011-04-16 09:23:18 <gjs278> yeah
592 2011-04-16 09:23:24 <BlueMatt> sipa: not sure...but miniupnp built fine?
593 2011-04-16 09:23:28 <sipa> yes
594 2011-04-16 09:23:38 TheAncientGoat has joined
595 2011-04-16 09:23:39 <sipa> and /usr/include/miniupnpc exists with some files in it
596 2011-04-16 09:23:53 <BlueMatt> Im assuming it has portlistingparse.h in it?
597 2011-04-16 09:24:07 <BlueMatt> no, nvm shouldnt
598 2011-04-16 09:24:09 <sipa> no, otherwise i wouldn't get that error
599 2011-04-16 09:24:26 <BlueMatt> mine doesnt either and I dont get an error...
600 2011-04-16 09:24:53 LobsterMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
601 2011-04-16 09:24:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: are you using 1.5 stable?
602 2011-04-16 09:25:18 <sipa> miniupnpc-1.5.20110314.tar.gz
603 2011-04-16 09:25:25 <BlueMatt> try 1.5 stable
604 2011-04-16 09:25:40 <sipa> oh right, there is another 1.5 download
605 2011-04-16 09:25:40 <BlueMatt> bitcoin will only build with the nightles on win32 as the command changed after 1.5 stable
606 2011-04-16 09:26:06 <BlueMatt> and I only did that because I couldnt get miniupnpc to build 1.5 stable on win32
607 2011-04-16 09:26:36 <sipa> ok, seems to build fine now
608 2011-04-16 09:27:12 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
609 2011-04-16 09:28:27 Zarutian has joined
610 2011-04-16 09:30:01 <sipa> BlueMatt: so, what do i do to test?
611 2011-04-16 09:30:11 <sipa> BlueMatt: enable upnp and then drop all packets?
612 2011-04-16 09:30:28 <BlueMatt> yea
613 2011-04-16 09:30:40 <BlueMatt> or drop all packets before you enable upnp
614 2011-04-16 09:33:53 <sipa> seems to work fine
615 2011-04-16 09:33:54 LobsterMan has joined
616 2011-04-16 09:34:15 <sipa> i do get this error:
617 2011-04-16 09:34:17 <sipa> sendto: Operation not permitted
618 2011-04-16 09:35:54 <BlueMatt> in debug.log?
619 2011-04-16 09:38:27 <sipa> no, on the command line
620 2011-04-16 09:38:34 <sipa> *terminal
621 2011-04-16 09:39:15 <BlueMatt> did you add an outgoing block as well?
622 2011-04-16 09:39:57 <sipa> i only added outgoing block
623 2011-04-16 09:41:07 <BlueMatt> well that makes no sense
624 2011-04-16 09:41:24 <BlueMatt> you have som odd permissions error there...do you get that without iptables messing with your packets?
625 2011-04-16 09:41:35 <sipa> no
626 2011-04-16 09:42:05 <sipa> second
627 2011-04-16 09:42:50 <sipa> using -j DROP does the same
628 2011-04-16 09:43:21 <BlueMatt> that makes absolutely no sense
629 2011-04-16 09:43:38 <BlueMatt> screw it try running bitcoin as root?
630 2011-04-16 09:45:44 <sipa> same error...
631 2011-04-16 09:46:07 <sipa> i'll try to find the code that causes that error
632 2011-04-16 09:47:26 <BlueMatt> sipa: wait so you get no errors normally but just running iptables -A INPUT -j DROP and all of a sudden you get "sendto: Operation not permitted"?
633 2011-04-16 09:47:50 taco_the_paco has joined
634 2011-04-16 09:47:51 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
635 2011-04-16 09:48:03 <sipa> BlueMatt: exactly
636 2011-04-16 09:48:11 <BlueMatt> wtf
637 2011-04-16 09:49:50 <sipa> i can't find it with gdb :S
638 2011-04-16 09:50:33 <BlueMatt> iptables should give you a sendto error though, especially not if you are just blocking incoming packets and not outgoing
639 2011-04-16 09:50:42 <BlueMatt> s/should/shouldnt/
640 2011-04-16 09:52:41 <sipa> indeed
641 2011-04-16 09:57:03 Gluskab has quit ()
642 2011-04-16 10:01:22 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
643 2011-04-16 10:02:03 taco_the_paco has joined
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647 2011-04-16 10:08:11 <sacarlson> I know my C++ skills suck but why does this work; strlen(mapArgs["-genesisblock"].c_str()) and this not; mapArgs.count["-genesisblock"] ;
648 2011-04-16 10:09:13 <sacarlson> won't this mapArgs.count["-genesisblock"] just tell me how many arguments exist in like interger or something?
649 2011-04-16 10:13:08 <sipa> count is a function, not an array
650 2011-04-16 10:13:18 <sipa> so it's mapArgs.count("-genesisblock")
651 2011-04-16 10:13:58 <ArtForz> and they're not equivalent
652 2011-04-16 10:14:29 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
653 2011-04-16 10:15:07 <sacarlson> sipa: oh cool I can't beleave I missed that
654 2011-04-16 10:15:10 <ArtForz> second one accepts a -genesisblock without value
655 2011-04-16 10:15:41 <sacarlson> sipa: that's what I get for having bad eye site
656 2011-04-16 10:16:04 taco_the_paco has joined
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660 2011-04-16 10:22:49 <necrodearia> I can't reproduce this, but this happened: http://pastebin.com/umcicDDJ
661 2011-04-16 10:23:34 <necrodearia> It may be from two events happening simultaneously.
662 2011-04-16 10:23:44 <necrodearia> One of which I have no idea
663 2011-04-16 10:24:11 blablaa has joined
664 2011-04-16 10:24:37 <necrodearia> Although perhaps it's not an issue with bitcoind?
665 2011-04-16 10:25:09 <sipa> that's definitely a bug
666 2011-04-16 10:25:17 <sipa> oh
667 2011-04-16 10:25:19 <sipa> bash
668 2011-04-16 10:25:36 <sipa> ... bug in bash? :s
669 2011-04-16 10:25:46 <necrodearia> heh
670 2011-04-16 10:28:21 <necrodearia> <geirha> necrodearia: Obviously a bug in bitcoin. It's free()ing somehting twice
671 2011-04-16 10:28:21 <necrodearia> <geirha> necrodearia: Though, that's a linux question, not bash.
672 2011-04-16 10:29:09 <sipa> that is incorrect
673 2011-04-16 10:29:15 <necrodearia> I have no idea
674 2011-04-16 10:29:23 <necrodearia> You can argue in #bash ^_^
675 2011-04-16 10:29:25 <sipa> from that bug report, it is bash that is doing a double free()
676 2011-04-16 10:30:22 <necrodearia> <geirha> Oh, crap, the stack trace is from bash
677 2011-04-16 10:32:12 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
678 2011-04-16 10:39:59 kumi has joined
679 2011-04-16 10:47:41 kumi has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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681 2011-04-16 10:48:31 dbitcoin has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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685 2011-04-16 11:16:07 <sacarlson> ok new problem with this block.nTime = ToUInt32(mapArgs["-block_nTime"]); error: âToUInt32â was not declared in this scope
686 2011-04-16 11:16:26 <sacarlson> is there a function that I can use to convert the string to a uint32?
687 2011-04-16 11:17:40 <sipa> atoi
688 2011-04-16 11:23:32 <sacarlson> sipa: I was looking at that as a posibility and also this int myInt = atoi(my_cpp_string.c_str()); I'll try atoi first
689 2011-04-16 11:24:20 <sipa> ...?
690 2011-04-16 11:26:53 <blablaa> sacarlson, u're programming in c++? there is a c++-style way to do atoi().
691 2011-04-16 11:27:25 <sacarlson> blablaa: well the atoi seemed to work ok
692 2011-04-16 11:27:58 <sacarlson> blablaa: but I'm open if it might have some advantage
693 2011-04-16 11:28:14 <mtrlt> the "proper" way to do that in c++ is to use stringstreams
694 2011-04-16 11:28:36 <sacarlson> mtrlt: and an example might be?
695 2011-04-16 11:28:37 <blablaa> sacarlson, the advantage is you can go around saying you know c++
696 2011-04-16 11:28:48 <sipa> http://cplusplus.com/forum/articles/9645/
697 2011-04-16 11:29:24 <sacarlson> well as you might have noticed I don't know c++ any farther than I can throw it
698 2011-04-16 11:29:32 <mtrlt> sabalaba: look at sipa's link :)
699 2011-04-16 11:30:17 <sabalaba> mtrlt, why is that?
700 2011-04-16 11:30:35 <sabalaba> oh, you must have meant sacarl-- :)
701 2011-04-16 11:30:45 <sabalaba> sacarlson, look at sipa's link!
702 2011-04-16 11:30:50 <mtrlt> whopa
703 2011-04-16 11:30:52 <mtrlt> whops :D
704 2011-04-16 11:31:09 <sacarlson> sabalaba: yes I am reading it now thanks sipa
705 2011-04-16 11:31:09 <mtrlt> i just wrote sa and <tab>
706 2011-04-16 11:31:50 <sabalaba> yea, np :)
707 2011-04-16 11:37:25 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
708 2011-04-16 11:38:55 dbitcoin has joined
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710 2011-04-16 11:45:21 <sacarlson> sipa: ok I used your c++ method that also seems to work but took like 3 lines of code in the place of atoi but must have it's advantages
711 2011-04-16 11:46:28 blablaa has left ()
712 2011-04-16 11:52:06 noagendamarket has joined
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714 2011-04-16 11:56:06 <necrodearia> Make monies here --> http://free.witcoin.com/p/1124/No-cost-to-post-reply-or-edit-in-this-category
715 2011-04-16 12:13:20 Fullbring has joined
716 2011-04-16 12:13:47 <Fullbring> hy, is genjix there ?
717 2011-04-16 12:14:24 <Fullbring> or anyone in charge ?
718 2011-04-16 12:14:59 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: ask a question, as there really isnt anyone "in charge" though maybe you want gavinandresen or jgarzik?
719 2011-04-16 12:15:11 <ducki2p> the bitcoin board of directors is out for drinks, please leave a message
720 2011-04-16 12:15:24 <Fullbring> :D
721 2011-04-16 12:16:20 <Fullbring> i thought about speaking with satoshi, we were hanging on the same forum, lp.net and i wanted to offer my help for the french part of this project
722 2011-04-16 12:17:25 <BlueMatt> satoshi doesnt post on the forum anymore, dont think he ever got on the irc
723 2011-04-16 12:17:31 <Diablo-D3> heh, like they'red be a bitcoin board of directors =P
724 2011-04-16 12:17:42 <BlueMatt> just by email to the project leads now
725 2011-04-16 12:18:14 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: have you listened to gavin on econtalk?
726 2011-04-16 12:18:15 theorbtwo has joined
727 2011-04-16 12:18:28 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: in any case, to translation patches are always welcome
728 2011-04-16 12:18:51 <BlueMatt> though there already is a french port...have you tried it?
729 2011-04-16 12:19:21 <BlueMatt> look in locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po
730 2011-04-16 12:20:29 m00p has joined
731 2011-04-16 12:20:30 <Fullbring> yes i was thinking about the translation patches coz there is some mistakes
732 2011-04-16 12:21:29 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: ok, make the necessary changes in bitcoin.po and post a diff
733 2011-04-16 12:21:33 <Fullbring> im at work atm so i cannot really start working on it, but ill be back on irc later
734 2011-04-16 12:21:59 <BlueMatt> work on saturday, sucks, oh well we'll be here when you are ready :)
735 2011-04-16 12:22:36 <Fullbring> yeah ^^ university during the week and working on we yey !
736 2011-04-16 12:22:48 <BlueMatt> oh, sucks either way...have fun
737 2011-04-16 12:24:15 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: no, why?
738 2011-04-16 12:25:18 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: he talks about bitcoin backing and how business non-tech folks want some kind of backing + if the project grows what might be necessary from the perspective of a bitcoin org
739 2011-04-16 12:27:04 <Fullbring> i still dont really compute, if the number of bc is limited to 21M the whole system is limited isnt it ?
740 2011-04-16 12:27:39 <Fullbring> and the fundamental principe of a currency is that it has to be available for everybody
741 2011-04-16 12:27:44 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: the total amount of bitcoin in existence will approach 21 M
742 2011-04-16 12:27:46 <Fullbring> so i must be wrong lol
743 2011-04-16 12:27:49 <BlueMatt> never actaully reaching
744 2011-04-16 12:28:05 <BlueMatt> nope thats the way it works
745 2011-04-16 12:28:33 <BlueMatt> bitcoin is still available for people, even if the total is limited
746 2011-04-16 12:28:43 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: well, what would be REALLY interesting is a gold fund
747 2011-04-16 12:28:43 <krytzz> Fullbring: you can divide bitcoins so the amount is no problem
748 2011-04-16 12:28:50 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: where shares are bought and sold using btc
749 2011-04-16 12:29:16 <Fullbring> oh ok
750 2011-04-16 12:29:30 <Fullbring> Sorry french faq isnt really complete
751 2011-04-16 12:29:40 <krytzz> help translation :)
752 2011-04-16 12:29:49 <BlueMatt> its not like current currencies are given out to everyone
753 2011-04-16 12:29:49 <Fullbring> thats what i offer to do
754 2011-04-16 12:29:57 <BlueMatt> krytzz: scroll up
755 2011-04-16 12:30:27 <krytzz> ah, just started reading
756 2011-04-16 12:30:36 <Fullbring> in theory yes they are ^^
757 2011-04-16 12:30:52 <Fullbring> but this whole project is really interesting
758 2011-04-16 12:31:02 <sacarlson> can I change this to a name or must it be an ip address in irc.cpp line 275: CAddress addrConnect("92.243.23.21:6667"); // irc.lfnet.org
759 2011-04-16 12:31:03 <Fullbring> Lp wasnt this much enthusiast at all
760 2011-04-16 12:31:08 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: in reality, not so much
761 2011-04-16 12:31:11 <Fullbring> allways pessimist withs those kind of stuff
762 2011-04-16 12:31:58 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: you could change it to a dns lookup to get the ip then pass it...
763 2011-04-16 12:32:02 <Fullbring> @BlueMatt yep definitly
764 2011-04-16 12:32:29 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: pass it?
765 2011-04-16 12:32:58 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: convert it to a string, add the ":6667" and then put it in the place of the constant ip
766 2011-04-16 12:33:18 <BlueMatt> ie pass it to whatever function it is currently passing
767 2011-04-16 12:33:20 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: ok cool thanks
768 2011-04-16 12:35:19 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: oh wait you mean this function won't do the dns for me I have to do it before this point?
769 2011-04-16 12:35:46 <BlueMatt> afaik CAddress does no dns-related stuff
770 2011-04-16 12:36:04 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: ok good enuf
771 2011-04-16 12:36:40 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: since my irc network uses a dynamic address I can't put an ip in here
772 2011-04-16 12:37:06 <BlueMatt> getaddrinfo
773 2011-04-16 12:37:27 <BlueMatt> or gethostbyname
774 2011-04-16 12:37:35 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
775 2011-04-16 12:40:10 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: seems that's what it does bellow that with struct hostent* phostent = gethostbyname("irc.lfnet.org");
776 2011-04-16 12:40:48 <Fullbring> lol at putting a subcategorie psychoactive drugs !!
777 2011-04-16 12:40:49 <Fullbring> xD
778 2011-04-16 12:40:52 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: so I guess those lines bellow will override the ip address anyway
779 2011-04-16 12:42:26 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: seems like it...odd that the ip is still there and that it doesnt use dns if you are using tor...
780 2011-04-16 12:43:10 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I"m not sure what tor is somekind of a proxy I think?
781 2011-04-16 12:43:25 <BlueMatt> yea it is
782 2011-04-16 12:43:33 <BlueMatt> its an anonymous network
783 2011-04-16 12:43:38 <BlueMatt> the onion router
784 2011-04-16 12:43:47 <BlueMatt> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOR
785 2011-04-16 12:43:49 KuT-Sickness is now known as S-Work
786 2011-04-16 12:43:53 S-Work has quit (Changing host)
787 2011-04-16 12:43:53 S-Work has joined
788 2011-04-16 12:44:02 S-Work is now known as KuT-Sickness
789 2011-04-16 12:44:07 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: oh ya I read a bit on it before no I don't use that so maybe I'll just add the same dns they have bellow for not using tor
790 2011-04-16 12:47:20 <BlueMatt> I suppose its a anonymity problem if you use dns while you are trying to connect through tor
791 2011-04-16 12:53:50 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: well from looking at it a bit at this point it might just be easier for me to use tor than to try to fix this and just make the address changeable in tor with the config file change
792 2011-04-16 12:54:20 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: what are you even trying to do?
793 2011-04-16 12:55:23 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I'm just making it so you can create custom coins with just changes in the bitcoin.conf file
794 2011-04-16 12:55:39 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: you mean seperate networks?
795 2011-04-16 12:55:46 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: yes
796 2011-04-16 12:56:20 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I basicly made another testnet on another network
797 2011-04-16 12:56:39 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: then all you need to do is change the irc address/name, default port (to make sure no nodes get confused, though I suppose not strictly necessary), and the static nodes + static dns nodes
798 2011-04-16 12:56:42 <BlueMatt> (fallback nodes)
799 2011-04-16 12:57:53 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I also create a new genesisblock
800 2011-04-16 12:58:00 <BlueMatt> oh yea that too
801 2011-04-16 12:59:43 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: block_nTime and block_nNonce are also added to the bitcoin config and I will also add the working directory but I think that's already done
802 2011-04-16 13:00:44 <Fullbring> But i dont get it, the price are gonna constantly fluctuate as long as the bc are gonna be divided in smaller parts for having more and more users no ?
803 2011-04-16 13:01:07 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: ya that a good idea I'll add the port address if that's not already a part of the options
804 2011-04-16 13:02:04 <sacarlson> Fullbring: is that question for me?
805 2011-04-16 13:02:28 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: see my/gavin's portoption branch
806 2011-04-16 13:02:29 <BlueMatt> es
807 2011-04-16 13:02:56 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: what's the date I assume it's in the git
808 2011-04-16 13:03:27 <Fullbring> its a question for anyones who has the answer
809 2011-04-16 13:03:42 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/tree/portoption
810 2011-04-16 13:03:53 <BlueMatt> just the last 2 commits there
811 2011-04-16 13:04:14 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: if it catches on, yea
812 2011-04-16 13:04:26 <jaromil> genjix: FYI https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/162
813 2011-04-16 13:06:54 <Fullbring> i think this will be the pb of this currency a manuel adjustement of all the prices from each retailer will be quite exhausting imo
814 2011-04-16 13:07:35 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: the value will stabilize as the market grows
815 2011-04-16 13:08:01 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: or the price will be auto-adjusted for exchange rate
816 2011-04-16 13:08:16 <Fullbring> yes this is already in place ?
817 2011-04-16 13:08:34 <Fullbring> i mean there already is a system wich auto adjust them ?
818 2011-04-16 13:08:36 <BlueMatt> most btc-accepting sites already do that
819 2011-04-16 13:08:49 <Fullbring> hum ok
820 2011-04-16 13:08:50 <BlueMatt> based on mtg ex rate
821 2011-04-16 13:09:02 <Fullbring> mtg ?
822 2011-04-16 13:09:06 <BlueMatt> mtgox
823 2011-04-16 13:10:10 <Fullbring> so bitcoin will always need an etalon such as gold or dollar
824 2011-04-16 13:10:48 <Blitzboom> no
825 2011-04-16 13:11:14 <Fullbring> ...
826 2011-04-16 13:11:28 <Blitzboom> why measure in dollar or gold if you can buy what you need with bitcoin?
827 2011-04-16 13:11:35 <BlueMatt> depends on how you see bitcoin, IMHO it will...others say bitcoin will become THE currency
828 2011-04-16 13:11:51 <Fullbring> lol its not that easy blitzboom
829 2011-04-16 13:12:05 <Blitzboom> you said "it will always need" as a matter of fact
830 2011-04-16 13:12:14 <Blitzboom> which is not true, as it is just a currency
831 2011-04-16 13:12:17 <Fullbring> no no i wasnt stated
832 2011-04-16 13:12:17 warpi has joined
833 2011-04-16 13:12:26 <Fullbring> im thinking outloud
834 2011-04-16 13:12:38 <Fullbring> all this sytem is quiet new for me
835 2011-04-16 13:13:18 <Fullbring> you'll need a parallel
836 2011-04-16 13:13:28 <Fullbring> with your money
837 2011-04-16 13:13:35 <Fullbring> for evaluate his value
838 2011-04-16 13:13:44 <Fullbring> in comparaison to real goods itself
839 2011-04-16 13:14:10 <Fullbring> im mean in a longterm
840 2011-04-16 13:14:28 <Fullbring> maybe you'll be able to get rid off this way of thinking
841 2011-04-16 13:14:36 <BlueMatt> yea, but usd doesnt have constant vale either so...
842 2011-04-16 13:14:37 <Fullbring> but as long as there will be othere important
843 2011-04-16 13:14:38 <Blitzboom> basket of goods?
844 2011-04-16 13:14:38 <Fullbring> curerncy
845 2011-04-16 13:14:41 <Fullbring> you will ahve to do this
846 2011-04-16 13:15:04 <Fullbring> no and thats the main problem of actual currency
847 2011-04-16 13:15:08 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: it varies in the short term and decreases in the long term, yeah
848 2011-04-16 13:15:12 <Fullbring> and thats why this project is really interesting
849 2011-04-16 13:15:14 <Blitzboom> bitcoin should be the opposite
850 2011-04-16 13:15:27 <Blitzboom> and is so far
851 2011-04-16 13:15:41 <Blitzboom> although thatâs mostly due to speculation atm
852 2011-04-16 13:16:05 <Fullbring> but as long as you will have a shitload of people making tons of moneys with forex, i dont really see how this will be possible to get rid of other currencys ^^
853 2011-04-16 13:16:11 <Fullbring> yes it is
854 2011-04-16 13:17:20 <Blitzboom> weâll only get rid of them if you can practically pay everything with bitcoin
855 2011-04-16 13:17:28 <gasteve> jaromil: I did a similar thing (using autotools, but that was only out of necessity...I was reorging the source code to make it easier to work with): http://github.com/gasteve/bitcoin (autotools is building both bicoin and bitcoind ...but I only worked on the OSX build)
856 2011-04-16 13:17:41 <Blitzboom> which would be really great, because it would make everything much easier and without transaction costs
857 2011-04-16 13:17:48 <Fullbring> oh i wich this could be such easy
858 2011-04-16 13:17:54 <gasteve> build, I didn't both asking for a pull ;)
859 2011-04-16 13:17:58 <gasteve> *bother
860 2011-04-16 13:21:27 <jaromil> gasteve: ACK. i am not testing on OSX since i don't have an apple machine ATM but will ask friends and will have a look at your branch
861 2011-04-16 13:21:49 <jaromil> this is just a start for me, i intend to separate all code: UI from daemon from CLI
862 2011-04-16 13:22:12 <jaromil> then make sure cli and daemon are cross compilable, then make a shared library
863 2011-04-16 13:22:30 <jaromil> i guess it won't take long since the code is not much and easy to find a way through
864 2011-04-16 13:23:05 <gasteve> I have similar aims...I'm looking at options to add a few unit test at the moment
865 2011-04-16 13:23:26 <Fullbring> it will at best be a great alternative but never be the only currency imo
866 2011-04-16 13:26:10 <jrabbit> if you don't bastardize it too much it should cross compile anywhere....
867 2011-04-16 13:27:06 warpi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
868 2011-04-16 13:29:22 <BlueMatt> btw has anyone tried to compile bitcoin win32 under linux with mingw?
869 2011-04-16 13:31:32 <gasteve> BlueMatt: what would you want to torture yourself like that?
870 2011-04-16 13:31:35 <gasteve> *why
871 2011-04-16 13:31:51 <BlueMatt> because one doesnt want to boot up a vm just to compile bitcoin for win32?
872 2011-04-16 13:32:06 <BlueMatt> virtually all of the devs use linux anyway
873 2011-04-16 13:32:30 <gasteve> ah...so you don't have to torture yourself by running windows ...I get it ;)
874 2011-04-16 13:33:14 <gasteve> even if you did that, I think you'd want to run Windows to test it anyway
875 2011-04-16 13:33:33 <gasteve> (especially when there are unit tests available to run)
876 2011-04-16 13:36:10 <jaromil> gasteve: if you like to work on the same branch i'm very much in favour of test units
877 2011-04-16 13:36:46 <jaromil> else i'll cherry pick from your branches, but due to the directory reorg i doubt it can work smoothly to merge
878 2011-04-16 13:37:02 <gasteve> well, the question there would be whether you want to adopt the source re-org that I did...or whether I would want to abandon that
879 2011-04-16 13:37:15 <jaromil> in general i'm following a violent approach for changes now rather than regret it later...
880 2011-04-16 13:37:27 <gasteve> :))
881 2011-04-16 13:37:30 <jaromil> the source doesn't needs much reorg
882 2011-04-16 13:37:40 <jaromil> in fact i did not change it almost at all
883 2011-04-16 13:37:53 <jaromil> just had to rename cryptopp/config.h into settings.h
884 2011-04-16 13:38:24 <gasteve> yes, I know... jgarzik's comments surprised me given how little actual reorg you did on the sources
885 2011-04-16 13:38:36 <jaromil> its an autotool *default* setup now with no touching of sources
886 2011-04-16 13:39:44 <jaromil> the only change to sources is the last commit, for the rest i just moved all in src/ as it is, no need for anything else. now looking at the flags it will be quite easy to satisfy most of them
887 2011-04-16 13:40:05 <jaromil> i plan to touch the sources but i guess that should be another pull req
888 2011-04-16 13:40:21 <gasteve> the main reason I separated out the classes like I did is that I want to have the ability to reuse classes individually to create different compilation artifacts (like a libwallet, libpeer, libminer, etc)
889 2011-04-16 13:40:47 <jaromil> gasteve: i'm all for that, that's why i've put libtool already
890 2011-04-16 13:40:56 <BlueMatt> yay supreme court is hearing a tech-related patent case :) and microsofts lawyering money is fighting against patents :)
891 2011-04-16 13:40:56 <jaromil> yet i think that should be a different pull req
892 2011-04-16 13:41:42 <gasteve> I'm brand new to autotools (so I didn't do anything with libtool...though I read a bit about it)...for me, autotools was all about getting the auto dependency capabilities
893 2011-04-16 13:41:59 <jaromil> as of req 162 i'm now done, asking friends for testing, will leave it as it is and hear other devs opinion
894 2011-04-16 13:42:00 <gasteve> (with a lot more files, dependencies are important)
895 2011-04-16 13:42:14 <jaromil> i'm using autotools since >10 years... at a time it was MUCH worst than now
896 2011-04-16 13:42:27 <jaromil> but then i'm also using normal Makefiles or even cmake for win32 cross
897 2011-04-16 13:42:37 <topi`_> jrabbit: the bitcoind cannot be compiled on big endian platforms because of bad endianness assumptions in the code :)
898 2011-04-16 13:42:45 <gasteve> ok...so, maybe I'll pull some of your autotools related work into my branch
899 2011-04-16 13:42:55 <jrabbit> topi`_: oh my.
900 2011-04-16 13:43:33 <jaromil> its not perfect but its a minimal approach so far and you can already break up in static libs
901 2011-04-16 13:43:38 <topi`_> gasteve: I assume you're interested in bitcoin for OSX? Have you looked at jgarzik's miner, did you get the sse2_x64 code to compile on OSX?
902 2011-04-16 13:43:53 <jaromil> see cryptopp is a static lib, gets linked inside bitcoind yet is static in the tree, i guess you'll like that for unit tests
903 2011-04-16 13:43:56 <topi`_> I compiled yasm, but there's an illegal absolute relocation that mach-o 64bit won't allow.
904 2011-04-16 13:44:15 <gasteve> I'm mining on ubuntu...so I haven't looked into mining on OSX
905 2011-04-16 13:44:35 <BlueMatt> topi`_: have you tried it in darwine?
906 2011-04-16 13:44:37 <topi`_> jaromil: we're having some lunch with the woman now, but if we invite you to eat at our place, do you have time?
907 2011-04-16 13:44:55 <topi`_> gasteve: do you know x86_64 assembler?
908 2011-04-16 13:45:03 <topi`_> that would be helpful, because I can't fix the yasm code myself
909 2011-04-16 13:46:29 <gasteve> topi`_: not really...I have studied the x86 instruction set before, but I was more interested in directly generating the machine code from sources than going through an assembler
910 2011-04-16 13:48:38 <jrabbit> BlueMatt: wtf does that have to do with illegal ASM
911 2011-04-16 13:49:02 <jrabbit> http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2010/12/24/drunkest-driver-in-sa-arrested
912 2011-04-16 13:49:08 <BlueMatt> jrabbit: its not illegal its just yasm not letting it in the osx binaries (it compiles fine on linux/win32)
913 2011-04-16 13:49:28 <BlueMatt> some different binary restrictions on osx for some reason
914 2011-04-16 13:49:28 <jrabbit> oh
915 2011-04-16 13:49:38 <jrabbit> "Five boys as well as a woman who were also in the vehicle with 15 sheep, allegedly stolen from nearby farms, were also arrested."
916 2011-04-16 13:54:09 <Fullbring> gne?
917 2011-04-16 13:54:36 <gasteve> BlueMatt: speaking of patents...did you see this: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/patents-and-innovation.html
918 2011-04-16 13:55:32 <BlueMatt> gasteve: yea, really sad how messed up the system is
919 2011-04-16 13:57:43 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Laurent Bachelier * rd5538b219ca2 gentoo/net-p2p/ (7 files in 2 dirs): bitcoin ebuilds: distutils is not needed http://tinyurl.com/5trxc9x
920 2011-04-16 13:57:46 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Laurent Bachelier * refdc52be6ef6 gentoo/net-p2p/ (7 files in 2 dirs): bitcoin ebuilds: use EAPI 3 http://tinyurl.com/6aoqxnp
921 2011-04-16 13:57:49 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Laurent Bachelier * rcdc7af0ced1e gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/ (Manifest bitcoin-0.3.20.2.ebuild): Fix indentation http://tinyurl.com/6jq6lkg
922 2011-04-16 13:58:58 <jaromil> topi`_: i'm enslaved by gf for passover preps from now until monday :|
923 2011-04-16 13:59:15 <jaromil> thinking of which, need to go shop stuff. damn. bbl.
924 2011-04-16 13:59:50 <genjix> hey
925 2011-04-16 14:02:04 knotwork_ has joined
926 2011-04-16 14:02:14 Incitatus has joined
927 2011-04-16 14:02:40 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
928 2011-04-16 14:02:45 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * rcfaedf4c0656 intersango/deposit.php: removed pokerstars deposit option. http://tinyurl.com/5upau95
929 2011-04-16 14:03:32 <topi`_> morning genjix
930 2011-04-16 14:03:53 <genjix> hey
931 2011-04-16 14:03:53 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
932 2011-04-16 14:04:32 NickelBot has joined
933 2011-04-16 14:05:21 MartianW has joined
934 2011-04-16 14:05:51 <genjix> http://www.liquidpoker.net/news/968460/U._S._Department_of_Justice_Seizes_Poker_Rooms_
935 2011-04-16 14:06:00 <genjix> big things happened today :(
936 2011-04-16 14:06:06 <Fullbring> yep
937 2011-04-16 14:06:09 <Fullbring> started yesterday
938 2011-04-16 14:06:32 <Fullbring> only dangerous for us player funds
939 2011-04-16 14:06:43 <Fullbring> they're not gonna be seized
940 2011-04-16 14:06:53 <Fullbring> only frozen during the time of the trial
941 2011-04-16 14:07:01 <genjix> 1/3 of all my money is spread over poker sites, 1/3 lent to people and 1/3 in sister's bank... :(
942 2011-04-16 14:07:04 <Fullbring> if you havent alerady cashout
943 2011-04-16 14:07:16 <genjix> i tried to cash out
944 2011-04-16 14:07:22 <Fullbring> be patient
945 2011-04-16 14:07:32 <Fullbring> you've moved up in stakes ?
946 2011-04-16 14:07:34 <BlueMatt> why your sister's bank, why not your own?
947 2011-04-16 14:07:54 <genjix> complicated
948 2011-04-16 14:08:06 <lfm> your sister has a bank!? cool
949 2011-04-16 14:08:06 <Fullbring> when you left lp you were playing nl10
950 2011-04-16 14:08:12 <jrabbit> genjix: Do you think the US can be sued for seizure of foreign citizen's funds?
951 2011-04-16 14:08:22 <BlueMatt> jrabbit: yea right
952 2011-04-16 14:08:26 <genjix> no idea... world police.
953 2011-04-16 14:08:33 <jrabbit> its a legitimate question lol
954 2011-04-16 14:08:52 <BlueMatt> no, afaik, us law only cares about us citizens
955 2011-04-16 14:08:53 <jrabbit> just because they were the custodians of the funds doesn't mean they own them
956 2011-04-16 14:09:05 <lfm> of course you can always sue, winning might be slightly harder
957 2011-04-16 14:09:05 <BlueMatt> IIRC the constitution only says us citizens can sue the us govt
958 2011-04-16 14:09:09 <jrabbit> BlueMatt: I didn't say if the US would processute it self....
959 2011-04-16 14:09:11 <genjix> around ~3k capital that I had for starting a bitcoin foundation.
960 2011-04-16 14:09:21 <genjix> seriously fuck them.
961 2011-04-16 14:09:22 <jrabbit> BlueMatt: no foreign agents can sue in SCOTUS
962 2011-04-16 14:09:30 <BlueMatt> jrabbit: I dont think the world court would take that case
963 2011-04-16 14:09:47 <jrabbit> We're not party to any global justice system
964 2011-04-16 14:09:50 <genjix> http://pokerstars.com
965 2011-04-16 14:09:50 <Fullbring> The world court ?
966 2011-04-16 14:10:09 <jrabbit> and the non-criminal international court requires both sides to agree to its juristiction
967 2011-04-16 14:10:22 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: there are several in The Hague
968 2011-04-16 14:10:24 <jrabbit> (which the US would refuse)
969 2011-04-16 14:10:37 maikmerten has joined
970 2011-04-16 14:10:41 <Fullbring> yep but uits international court lol
971 2011-04-16 14:10:46 <Fullbring> pretty much the same
972 2011-04-16 14:10:48 stonetz has joined
973 2011-04-16 14:11:00 <Fullbring> but some few differences exist lol
974 2011-04-16 14:11:27 MartianW has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
975 2011-04-16 14:11:32 <Fullbring> its in the hay
976 2011-04-16 14:11:41 <jrabbit> ...
977 2011-04-16 14:11:44 <Fullbring> but whatever
978 2011-04-16 14:12:02 <jrabbit> stop hitting enter. seriously.
979 2011-04-16 14:12:21 RazielZ has joined
980 2011-04-16 14:12:47 <Blitzboom> i hope this will motivate people to use bitcoin
981 2011-04-16 14:12:57 <luke-jr> genjix: my brother has funds frozen too
982 2011-04-16 14:13:20 MartianW has joined
983 2011-04-16 14:13:22 <BlueMatt> can non-us citizens still take their money out?
984 2011-04-16 14:13:35 <Blitzboom> apparently not
985 2011-04-16 14:14:02 <luke-jr> btw, BTCex is down. anyone know how they handle EUR?
986 2011-04-16 14:14:05 <BlueMatt> are they us companies?
987 2011-04-16 14:14:36 <genjix> nope
988 2011-04-16 14:14:41 <genjix> my funds are locked (UK)
989 2011-04-16 14:14:41 <Blitzboom> http://techland.time.com/2011/04/16/online-cash-bitcoin-could-challenge-governments/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+timeblogs%2Fnerd_world+%28TIME%3A+Techland%29
990 2011-04-16 14:14:47 <Blitzboom> itâs here!
991 2011-04-16 14:14:55 <Blitzboom> http://techland.time.com/2011/04/16/online-cash-bitcoin-could-challenge-governments/
992 2011-04-16 14:14:57 <luke-jr> oh wow
993 2011-04-16 14:14:59 <[Tycho]> BTCex is not down already.
994 2011-04-16 14:14:59 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: NICE
995 2011-04-16 14:15:03 <Blitzboom> YES
996 2011-04-16 14:15:28 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: it's been down since last night
997 2011-04-16 14:15:34 <Blitzboom> letâs see what happens now.
998 2011-04-16 14:15:38 <luke-jr> it had DB errors then, now it just doesn't respond at all
999 2011-04-16 14:15:48 <BlueMatt> nice its entirely about bitcoin and looks very positive :)
1000 2011-04-16 14:16:10 <BlueMatt> lets get it the most popular on the site, link it everywhere and comment out the woz
1001 2011-04-16 14:16:39 <Blitzboom> reddit it
1002 2011-04-16 14:16:41 <Blitzboom> digg it
1003 2011-04-16 14:16:43 <Blitzboom> everything
1004 2011-04-16 14:17:25 <[Tycho]> Yes, they fixed the DB error.
1005 2011-04-16 14:18:07 <[Tycho]> Now it works fine.
1006 2011-04-16 14:19:39 MartianW has left ("Bye all.")
1007 2011-04-16 14:19:40 <BlueMatt> digg it: http://digg.com/news/technology/online_cash_bitcoin_could_challenge_governments_banks_techland_time_com
1008 2011-04-16 14:20:19 <Diablo-D3> no one uses digg.
1009 2011-04-16 14:20:55 <BlueMatt> so? its a couple more links right?
1010 2011-04-16 14:21:09 <Diablo-D3> not really
1011 2011-04-16 14:21:29 <jrabbit> BlueMatt: no one uses digg.
1012 2011-04-16 14:21:35 <noagendamarket> never heard of techland till just then
1013 2011-04-16 14:21:36 <Blitzboom> put it on reddit
1014 2011-04-16 14:21:38 <BlueMatt> jrabbit: scroll up
1015 2011-04-16 14:22:02 <jrabbit> it's called echoing
1016 2011-04-16 14:22:17 <jrabbit> ooh time article
1017 2011-04-16 14:22:21 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3 jrabbit fine one more click, does it matter? each extra person who reads that is better
1018 2011-04-16 14:22:44 <jrabbit> BlueMatt: Digg soldout its (few) users not to long ago
1019 2011-04-16 14:22:54 <jrabbit> its just a corporate news dump
1020 2011-04-16 14:22:58 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: but there arent any extra peoples
1021 2011-04-16 14:23:05 <Diablo-D3> digg has zero readers.
1022 2011-04-16 14:23:11 <luke-jr> Connection to Server Refused
1023 2011-04-16 14:23:22 <Diablo-D3> digg stopped being relevant about 3 years ago
1024 2011-04-16 14:23:23 <BlueMatt> fine screw it, forget it ever happened
1025 2011-04-16 14:23:31 <Diablo-D3> and reddit stopped being relevant about 2
1026 2011-04-16 14:23:42 <Diablo-D3> slashdot about 5, kuro5hin never was, etc
1027 2011-04-16 14:23:58 <Blitzboom> wtf is relevant, Diablo-D3?
1028 2011-04-16 14:23:59 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: so what is relevant?
1029 2011-04-16 14:23:59 <jrabbit> Slashdot still is sortof
1030 2011-04-16 14:24:09 <jrabbit> it didn't suicide in the same way digg did
1031 2011-04-16 14:24:24 <BlueMatt> /. still has a ton of traffic even if its not quite relevant
1032 2011-04-16 14:24:26 <Diablo-D3> dude, when slashdot started linking to my blog, it jumped the shark
1033 2011-04-16 14:24:42 <jrabbit> Diablo-D3: hahaha
1034 2011-04-16 14:24:57 <BlueMatt> I would have to agree that digg isnt relevant, it died then committed suicide...
1035 2011-04-16 14:25:05 <jrabbit> BlueMatt: good :P
1036 2011-04-16 14:25:09 <jrabbit> now you get it
1037 2011-04-16 14:25:32 <noagendamarket> kevin rose fled from digg
1038 2011-04-16 14:25:35 <noagendamarket> lol
1039 2011-04-16 14:25:38 <BlueMatt> jrabbit: I got it to begin with, but hell if it gets one more click its still worth it and digg still gets a couple million views/day so...
1040 2011-04-16 14:25:58 <jrabbit> noagendamarket: i know right I mean
1041 2011-04-16 14:26:11 <noagendamarket> he is joining witcoin jk
1042 2011-04-16 14:26:11 <jrabbit> it went from fame to shame in like a month
1043 2011-04-16 14:26:28 <jrabbit> oh I forgot about witcoin
1044 2011-04-16 14:26:38 * jrabbit could restructure the voting there maybe
1045 2011-04-16 14:26:49 <noagendamarket> weve gt a free section now
1046 2011-04-16 14:26:52 <BlueMatt> jrabbit: no it was on the way out before digg4 when they really died
1047 2011-04-16 14:27:19 <luke-jr> Digg died for me when it stopped working in my browser
1048 2011-04-16 14:27:34 <jrabbit> whats the point of it again noagendamarket ?
1049 2011-04-16 14:27:38 <noagendamarket> the digg bar was an asshole move
1050 2011-04-16 14:27:45 <jrabbit> a bitcoin social thing?
1051 2011-04-16 14:27:49 <noagendamarket> yes
1052 2011-04-16 14:28:02 <jrabbit> noagendamarket: is the code public? :P
1053 2011-04-16 14:28:11 <noagendamarket> not yet
1054 2011-04-16 14:28:21 <noagendamarket> we have a private git setup
1055 2011-04-16 14:28:26 <jrabbit> "yet" ?
1056 2011-04-16 14:28:28 <luke-jr> "not yet" means "no" to me
1057 2011-04-16 14:28:31 <jrabbit> ^
1058 2011-04-16 14:28:41 <jrabbit> if you're going to do it do it :P
1059 2011-04-16 14:28:42 <luke-jr> hmm.
1060 2011-04-16 14:28:44 <noagendamarket> ep
1061 2011-04-16 14:28:44 <noagendamarket> *yep
1062 2011-04-16 14:28:56 <luke-jr> I should have been less anonymous when I told the credit union guy about Bitcoin
1063 2011-04-16 14:29:04 <luke-jr> I'd probably be looking ahead of the curve right about now
1064 2011-04-16 14:29:05 <luke-jr> :p
1065 2011-04-16 14:29:30 <noagendamarket> jrabbit how do you spell raep ?
1066 2011-04-16 14:29:32 <jrabbit> but anywho I have an intresting plan for a new point system
1067 2011-04-16 14:29:32 <luke-jr> also, people who develop clients should probably try to finish up a new releaseâ¦
1068 2011-04-16 14:29:44 <luke-jr> ideally able to use other ports
1069 2011-04-16 14:29:49 <luke-jr> including bootstrap
1070 2011-04-16 14:29:56 <jrabbit> noagendamarket: rÅp
1071 2011-04-16 14:30:06 <noagendamarket> ^_^
1072 2011-04-16 14:30:12 <luke-jr> with this much attention, it's probably only time until some government tries to block bitcoin
1073 2011-04-16 14:30:27 <noagendamarket> we need to get a few more features done yet
1074 2011-04-16 14:30:35 <jrabbit> noagendamarket: what language?
1075 2011-04-16 14:31:08 <jrabbit> https://github.com/livid/v2ex I've been thinking I'd use this and make a reddit superstructure but I could just as easily do it for witcoin
1076 2011-04-16 14:31:27 <jrabbit> basically you choose which people's votes count for you
1077 2011-04-16 14:32:04 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: such as?
1078 2011-04-16 14:32:24 <noagendamarket> well...votes cost bitcoins on the site
1079 2011-04-16 14:33:08 <jrabbit> that sounds possible if it was original content...
1080 2011-04-16 14:33:16 <noagendamarket> luke-jr search for one ^_^
1081 2011-04-16 14:34:12 <necrodearia> <jrabbit> if you're going to do it do it :P
1082 2011-04-16 14:34:22 <necrodearia> reddit wasn't open source for ~3 years
1083 2011-04-16 14:34:32 <necrodearia> e.g. build community first
1084 2011-04-16 14:34:53 <necrodearia> If yuo're going to do it, do it.... even with little or no community...
1085 2011-04-16 14:35:39 * necrodearia falls asleep due to exhaustion
1086 2011-04-16 14:38:21 <genjix> jaromil: i started using irssi through vps :)
1087 2011-04-16 14:38:25 <genjix> super kewl idea
1088 2011-04-16 14:39:43 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1089 2011-04-16 14:40:05 <luke-jr> genjix: you want to get anything into Spesmilo before an initial release? :P
1090 2011-04-16 14:40:34 <luke-jr> otherwise, imma try to find someone to help get it working on Windows
1091 2011-04-16 14:40:35 <luke-jr> <.<
1092 2011-04-16 14:41:22 <Fullbring> whats the answer from bitcoins against the risk of money laundering ?
1093 2011-04-16 14:41:34 <luke-jr> Fullbring: it's not a risk, it's a given
1094 2011-04-16 14:41:35 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: have fun
1095 2011-04-16 14:41:39 cypherdoc has joined
1096 2011-04-16 14:41:50 <Blitzboom> whatâs the answer from the government against the risk of money laundering with dollars?
1097 2011-04-16 14:41:55 <Blitzboom> etc. etc.
1098 2011-04-16 14:42:00 <lfm> you're on your own
1099 2011-04-16 14:42:17 <Fullbring> yeah but its even easier with bitcoins
1100 2011-04-16 14:42:30 <lfm> you figgure?
1101 2011-04-16 14:42:32 <luke-jr> Fullbring: first define money laundering
1102 2011-04-16 14:42:42 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: and the answer is do it, and have fun doing it
1103 2011-04-16 14:42:42 <luke-jr> then explain why it's a problem
1104 2011-04-16 14:43:42 <lfm> explain why its owr problem
1105 2011-04-16 14:43:49 <Fullbring> its not your pbm
1106 2011-04-16 14:43:55 <Fullbring> in person
1107 2011-04-16 14:44:10 <Fullbring> its the pb of the success of bitcoins amongs other currency
1108 2011-04-16 14:44:32 <Blitzboom> ok, so how do you want to prevent money laundering without a central entity controlling the currency?
1109 2011-04-16 14:44:36 <Blitzboom> or intermediaries
1110 2011-04-16 14:44:39 <lfm> so its the problem with other currencies
1111 2011-04-16 14:46:01 <Fullbring> i'm not saying that i have the answer i was asking for the answer from responsable of bitcoins
1112 2011-04-16 14:46:03 <BlueMatt> Fullbring: you bring up a legitimate point, but there is no answer. Simply, bitcoin allows money laundering as much as any other currency
1113 2011-04-16 14:46:23 <Fullbring> yep thats all what i wanted to know
1114 2011-04-16 14:46:30 <Fullbring> whats was the current answer
1115 2011-04-16 14:47:05 <Fullbring> and maybe this is what this whole project hasnt already been made
1116 2011-04-16 14:47:12 <BlueMatt> current answer: none, launder to your heart's content
1117 2011-04-16 14:47:29 <Fullbring> so the success of this system would be in a free control organism
1118 2011-04-16 14:47:48 <Blitzboom> thatâs the point, yes
1119 2011-04-16 14:47:49 <BlueMatt> though remember that each tx is public and an investigative body could do some real work and figure out who has what
1120 2011-04-16 14:48:18 <luke-jr> yep
1121 2011-04-16 14:48:24 <luke-jr> in some ways, it's HARDER to launder bitcoins
1122 2011-04-16 14:48:26 <lfm> and if do buy things they can follow those things to you
1123 2011-04-16 14:48:27 <luke-jr> than cash
1124 2011-04-16 14:48:41 <Fullbring> or in a "community" control organism in the same spirit of the peer to peer initial idea
1125 2011-04-16 14:48:51 <luke-jr> never before could an investigative team trace the history of cash
1126 2011-04-16 14:49:24 <lfm> actually you can trace cash serial numbers
1127 2011-04-16 14:49:33 <BlueMatt> lfm: not really
1128 2011-04-16 14:49:35 <luke-jr> lfm: only if you know everywhere they went
1129 2011-04-16 14:49:38 <luke-jr> already
1130 2011-04-16 14:49:40 <sacarlson> ok I'm almost ready to try my new coin network but I need to know how to create the block_nNonce value and the block_nTime value and I guess the new genesisblock number
1131 2011-04-16 14:50:02 <luke-jr> sacarlson: â¦why?
1132 2011-04-16 14:50:12 <lfm> sacarlson: have fun
1133 2011-04-16 14:50:33 <sacarlson> for my experimental multi coin client
1134 2011-04-16 14:50:38 <Fullbring> i only see one way to do that
1135 2011-04-16 14:50:58 <Fullbring> make everyones expanses fully public
1136 2011-04-16 14:51:33 DavidSJ has joined
1137 2011-04-16 14:51:38 <sacarlson> I have it pointing to my IRC net I see myself come up there but I get the error now of bool LoadBlockIndex(bool): Assertion `block.GetHash() == hashGenesisBlock' failed.
1138 2011-04-16 14:51:49 <Fullbring> *expenses
1139 2011-04-16 14:52:41 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: you have to delete the old block index if you change the genisis block
1140 2011-04-16 14:53:11 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I deleted or renamed the .bitcoin directory to do that I think
1141 2011-04-16 14:53:41 <lfm> sacarlson: ya, you gotta start with a genesis block first
1142 2011-04-16 14:54:17 <sacarlson> lfm: is that a option on the command line to start that?
1143 2011-04-16 14:54:20 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: not according to that error
1144 2011-04-16 14:54:44 <luke-jr> holy crap
1145 2011-04-16 14:54:53 <luke-jr> Bitcoin is on time.com's front page :o
1146 2011-04-16 14:55:15 <sacarlson> luke-jr I hope it's good news
1147 2011-04-16 14:55:16 <Blitzboom> itâs not
1148 2011-04-16 14:55:20 <genjix> britcoin is getting some heavy volume
1149 2011-04-16 14:55:22 <Blitzboom> i donât see it on http://www.time.com/time/
1150 2011-04-16 14:55:25 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: BULLSHIT
1151 2011-04-16 14:55:29 <BlueMatt> only on the tech site's front page
1152 2011-04-16 14:55:32 <Diablo-D3> SCREENSHOT IT OR GTFO
1153 2011-04-16 14:55:34 <luke-jr> ah
1154 2011-04-16 14:55:37 <Diablo-D3> infact, please screenshot itr
1155 2011-04-16 14:55:38 <genjix> http://bitcoinwatch.com/
1156 2011-04-16 14:55:39 <Diablo-D3> I want to link to that
1157 2011-04-16 14:55:52 <Diablo-D3> infact, I want to buy it on a poster
1158 2011-04-16 14:55:57 <Diablo-D3> WITH BITCOINS
1159 2011-04-16 14:55:58 <Diablo-D3> MWHAHAHAHAH
1160 2011-04-16 14:56:13 <luke-jr> http://techland.time.com/
1161 2011-04-16 14:56:51 <Diablo-D3> whats a good pastebin for images?
1162 2011-04-16 14:57:41 <Fullbring> png
1163 2011-04-16 14:58:12 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: they are all irrelevant
1164 2011-04-16 14:58:15 <Diablo-D3> Fullbring: wtf is wrong with you
1165 2011-04-16 14:58:50 <Fullbring> excuse me ?
1166 2011-04-16 14:59:04 <luke-jr> genjix: poke
1167 2011-04-16 14:59:16 <Diablo-D3> Fullbring: you do know what a pastebin is, right?
1168 2011-04-16 14:59:31 <luke-jr> genjix: congrats on beating all the other exchanges :P
1169 2011-04-16 14:59:43 <Fullbring> oh you mean like imagehack ?
1170 2011-04-16 14:59:51 <genjix> thanks luke-jr
1171 2011-04-16 14:59:51 <Fullbring> im french sry ^^
1172 2011-04-16 14:59:55 <genjix> i run it as a charity
1173 2011-04-16 15:00:12 <luke-jr> genjix: is it ok if I try to do a formal Spesmilo release, or do you want me to wait for your branches?
1174 2011-04-16 15:00:51 <Diablo-D3> http://beta.thumbalizr.com/app/thumbs/?src=/thumbs/onl/source/94/94cb642ee3243776b4030b96694b3182.png&w=800&q=0&enc=
1175 2011-04-16 15:00:52 <Diablo-D3> bam.
1176 2011-04-16 15:00:56 <genjix> no go ahead
1177 2011-04-16 15:01:30 <Fullbring> Diablo-D3: dont be so agressive ! i thought you would knew imagehack if you are such a leet !
1178 2011-04-16 15:01:43 <luke-jr> Fullbring: Diablo-D3 is a troll, don't mind him
1179 2011-04-16 15:01:53 <Fullbring> kk
1180 2011-04-16 15:01:56 <Diablo-D3> Fullbring: well no, I said a _good_ one.
1181 2011-04-16 15:02:01 <Diablo-D3> that precludes imageshack
1182 2011-04-16 15:02:13 <Blitzboom> i use imgur
1183 2011-04-16 15:02:21 <Diablo-D3> but screw it, I just used a site that screenshots pages for me
1184 2011-04-16 15:02:23 <Diablo-D3> lazyness++
1185 2011-04-16 15:02:26 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1186 2011-04-16 15:02:39 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: except it doesn't work at all
1187 2011-04-16 15:02:54 <Diablo-D3> why doesnt it?
1188 2011-04-16 15:03:00 <luke-jr> nfc
1189 2011-04-16 15:03:02 <luke-jr> just a blank page
1190 2011-04-16 15:03:06 <Diablo-D3> hrm
1191 2011-04-16 15:03:08 <Fullbring> works for me
1192 2011-04-16 15:03:16 <genjix> i fully intend to jump back into spesmilo at some point
1193 2011-04-16 15:03:24 <genjix> just very preoccupied with other bitcoin stuff atm
1194 2011-04-16 15:03:53 <luke-jr> nm, just really really slow
1195 2011-04-16 15:04:17 <Fullbring> yep for me too but its a good one ;)
1196 2011-04-16 15:04:27 <Diablo-D3> http://imgur.com/YCE1A
1197 2011-04-16 15:04:40 <luke-jr> genjix: fwiw, I got rid of the local jsonrpc copy. you can either 'make local' to get it, or install jgarzik's bitcoinrpc (recommended)
1198 2011-04-16 15:05:55 * Diablo-D3 uses his superpowers, and dents
1199 2011-04-16 15:06:05 skeledrew has joined
1200 2011-04-16 15:06:33 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1201 2011-04-16 15:13:37 <Fullbring> "the system is secure as long as honest nodes collcetively control more CPU power than any cooperating group of attackers nodes"
1202 2011-04-16 15:13:42 <Fullbring> Interesting !
1203 2011-04-16 15:14:35 <lfm> Fullbring: yes, we never said we were invulnerable
1204 2011-04-16 15:14:50 <Fullbring> of course like every system
1205 2011-04-16 15:15:00 <Fullbring> based on internet
1206 2011-04-16 15:15:24 <Fullbring> but i quote it as a Fkn good point !
1207 2011-04-16 15:15:39 <lfm> you only need something like 2000 5970 GPU cards to take over bitcoin
1208 2011-04-16 15:15:47 <Fullbring> The more popular it goes the better it will be !
1209 2011-04-16 15:16:06 <Fullbring> :D
1210 2011-04-16 15:16:08 skeledrew1 has joined
1211 2011-04-16 15:16:22 <Fullbring> i wasnt pointed this out as a weaknesses
1212 2011-04-16 15:16:26 <Fullbring> au contraire ! :)
1213 2011-04-16 15:16:52 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1214 2011-04-16 15:17:32 <lfm> well you found it
1215 2011-04-16 15:18:03 <Fullbring> founded what ?
1216 2011-04-16 15:18:14 <Fullbring> the weaknes ?
1217 2011-04-16 15:18:34 <Blitzboom> both weakness and strength of bitcoin
1218 2011-04-16 15:19:02 <Fullbring> wich is ? money laundering :) ?
1219 2011-04-16 15:20:07 <Blitzboom> "the system is secure as long as honest nodes collcetively control more CPU power than any cooperating group of attackers nodes"
1220 2011-04-16 15:20:31 <Fullbring> i know i was joking
1221 2011-04-16 15:20:50 <Fullbring> without success apparently
1222 2011-04-16 15:21:13 <Blitzboom> bitcoin is serious business :D
1223 2011-04-16 15:22:15 <Fullbring> financial nerds like me are allowed to make bad jokes too :) !!
1224 2011-04-16 15:22:32 sacarlson has joined
1225 2011-04-16 15:22:57 <Blitzboom> no worries, i hate being serious
1226 2011-04-16 15:25:14 <Diablo-D3> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2454059
1227 2011-04-16 15:25:15 <Diablo-D3> NOW
1228 2011-04-16 15:25:17 <Diablo-D3> you upvote.
1229 2011-04-16 15:25:31 moop has joined
1230 2011-04-16 15:26:56 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1231 2011-04-16 15:29:05 <Fullbring> you are a developper diablo ?
1232 2011-04-16 15:29:05 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1233 2011-04-16 15:29:37 <Strom-> Diablo-D3, isn't it a dupe of this http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2453988 ?
1234 2011-04-16 15:29:52 <Diablo-D3> nope because I posted it first.
1235 2011-04-16 15:30:30 <Strom-> not according to the post timestamp o_O
1236 2011-04-16 15:30:36 <Fullbring> lol
1237 2011-04-16 15:30:47 <Fullbring> attention'whore :)
1238 2011-04-16 15:30:59 Strom- is now known as Strom
1239 2011-04-16 15:31:17 <Fullbring> lmd
1240 2011-04-16 15:37:04 <lfm> so I wonder if the recent hike in bitcoin prices was due to times.com insiders
1241 2011-04-16 15:37:29 <Blitzboom> iâm sure it is
1242 2011-04-16 15:38:22 <Fullbring> so we can actually speculate on bitcoins ?
1243 2011-04-16 15:38:47 <lfm> see my
1244 2011-04-16 15:38:48 Beremat has joined
1245 2011-04-16 15:38:58 <lfm> see mtgox.com
1246 2011-04-16 15:40:03 <Fullbring> ok so its not a complete socialist monetary system :)
1247 2011-04-16 15:41:16 <lfm> vary capitalist really
1248 2011-04-16 15:43:06 <Blitzboom> wtf is socialist about bitcoin?
1249 2011-04-16 15:43:09 <Blitzboom> nothing
1250 2011-04-16 15:43:14 <Blitzboom> itâs a currency
1251 2011-04-16 15:43:23 <Fullbring> a rake free financial system
1252 2011-04-16 15:43:31 <Blitzboom> right
1253 2011-04-16 15:43:42 <Fullbring> dont creat more and more financial guy
1254 2011-04-16 15:43:50 <Fullbring> richer
1255 2011-04-16 15:44:10 <Fullbring> and a more equalitarist system
1256 2011-04-16 15:44:17 <Fullbring> thats a little bit socialist to me
1257 2011-04-16 15:44:17 <lfm> well its kinda a "workers control the means of production" thing
1258 2011-04-16 15:44:32 <Blitzboom> no, itâs kind of "people control their currency"
1259 2011-04-16 15:44:43 <lfm> ya, thats what im saying
1260 2011-04-16 15:44:46 <Blitzboom> instead of governments and corporations
1261 2011-04-16 15:44:48 <noagendamarket> bitcoin doesnt pay your health care
1262 2011-04-16 15:45:03 <Fullbring> its completly socialist
1263 2011-04-16 15:45:06 <noagendamarket> its the anti obama
1264 2011-04-16 15:45:09 <Fullbring> in fact
1265 2011-04-16 15:45:21 <genjix> not socialist, not capitalist
1266 2011-04-16 15:45:26 <genjix> anarchist :p
1267 2011-04-16 15:45:28 <Fullbring> lol
1268 2011-04-16 15:45:32 <noagendamarket> its totally north korean
1269 2011-04-16 15:45:36 <Fullbring> :F
1270 2011-04-16 15:45:36 <Fullbring> :D
1271 2011-04-16 15:45:37 <lfm> ya back to the basics of socialism, not what todays politicians and news sound bytes claim is socialism
1272 2011-04-16 15:45:44 <noagendamarket> dear leader satoshi
1273 2011-04-16 15:45:50 <Fullbring> ahahha
1274 2011-04-16 15:46:03 <genjix> lfm: right.
1275 2011-04-16 15:46:10 <lfm> noagendamarket: and not communism either, learn the difference
1276 2011-04-16 15:46:26 <Fullbring> are you allowed to trade bitcoins ?
1277 2011-04-16 15:46:29 <noagendamarket> no u
1278 2011-04-16 15:46:34 <Fullbring> stop saying bullshit plz noagen lol
1279 2011-04-16 15:46:49 <Fullbring> My question was for genjix
1280 2011-04-16 15:46:51 <lfm> Fullbring: no one is "allowed" to stop anyone from trading bitcoins
1281 2011-04-16 15:46:52 <noagendamarket> bitcoin isnt fascist so thats a good thing
1282 2011-04-16 15:47:22 <noagendamarket> I cant stop bullshitting ^_^
1283 2011-04-16 15:47:49 <luke-jr> I love how Bitcoin Market lets you configure your time zone and then goes and displays all times in UTC anyway :D
1284 2011-04-16 15:47:51 <noagendamarket> wtf has this got to do with bitcoin dev anyway ?
1285 2011-04-16 15:48:13 <lfm> noagendamarket: I'll agree with that I cant think of any way that bitcoin would be fascist
1286 2011-04-16 15:48:25 <luke-jr> if anything, bitcoin is too capitalist
1287 2011-04-16 15:48:34 <Fullbring> lol
1288 2011-04-16 15:48:36 <luke-jr> but in practice, government can still regulate business, so it's ok
1289 2011-04-16 15:48:37 <noagendamarket> bitcoin isnt anything
1290 2011-04-16 15:48:42 Dark_Ghost has joined
1291 2011-04-16 15:48:42 <Blitzboom> luke-jr: no, youâre too fascist
1292 2011-04-16 15:48:47 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: no
1293 2011-04-16 15:48:50 <Blitzboom> yes you are
1294 2011-04-16 15:48:58 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: no
1295 2011-04-16 15:49:03 <noagendamarket> its how people act in a state of nature without regulation
1296 2011-04-16 15:49:10 <Blitzboom> you want to punish people smoking weed
1297 2011-04-16 15:49:13 <Blitzboom> i call that a fascist
1298 2011-04-16 15:49:24 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: that's capitalist
1299 2011-04-16 15:49:31 <noagendamarket> you lot just like to argue
1300 2011-04-16 15:49:34 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: it's also evil
1301 2011-04-16 15:49:38 <lfm> Blitzboom: thats Luke-jr's strongest argument for anything --- "NO"
1302 2011-04-16 15:49:38 <Fullbring> lol you can bought weed with beetcoins :)
1303 2011-04-16 15:49:50 <noagendamarket> Fullbring yes
1304 2011-04-16 15:49:55 <luke-jr> lfm: I don't make arguments when people are clearly not listening
1305 2011-04-16 15:50:05 <Blitzboom> not listening to god?
1306 2011-04-16 15:50:08 <lfm> luke-jrIm not listening
1307 2011-04-16 15:50:13 <luke-jr> lfm: exactly
1308 2011-04-16 15:50:16 * noagendamarket performs an exorcism
1309 2011-04-16 15:50:41 <noagendamarket> does the pope have a bitcoin address ?
1310 2011-04-16 15:50:48 <topi`_> bitcoin allows ordinary people to pay each other without needing to pay exorbitant prices
1311 2011-04-16 15:50:51 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: maybe the next pope will
1312 2011-04-16 15:50:55 <lfm> bitcoins is aitheist
1313 2011-04-16 15:50:57 <topi`_> like when sending money back to your family in Africa.
1314 2011-04-16 15:50:58 <noagendamarket> 1 bitcoin to the first religious leader to get one ^_^
1315 2011-04-16 15:51:10 <Blitzboom> 1 bitcoin for the pope
1316 2011-04-16 15:51:10 * manveru founds a religion
1317 2011-04-16 15:51:22 * luke-jr wonders if he can tithe in bitcoins
1318 2011-04-16 15:51:23 <noagendamarket> popecoin
1319 2011-04-16 15:51:54 <lfm> who is bitcoin's ceasar? I dont think there is one
1320 2011-04-16 15:52:06 <Blitzboom> satoshi
1321 2011-04-16 15:52:12 * manveru wonders what would happen if bitcoin got popular, but every country started getting its own blockchain
1322 2011-04-16 15:52:14 <Blitzboom> but heâs gone, so we have none
1323 2011-04-16 15:52:17 <lfm> so we can't render onto Ceasar
1324 2011-04-16 15:52:38 <Blitzboom> itâs actually damn cool that satoshi just disappeared
1325 2011-04-16 15:52:43 <Fullbring> whats belong to cease
1326 2011-04-16 15:52:51 <Blitzboom> anonymous founder of a decentralized currency
1327 2011-04-16 15:52:55 <luke-jr> lfm: taxes are still owed even if that specific wording no longer works
1328 2011-04-16 15:53:07 <Blitzboom> or rather inventor
1329 2011-04-16 15:53:20 <luke-jr> Blitzboom: implementor
1330 2011-04-16 15:53:20 <lfm> luke-jr but itll be hard to collect sales tax on bitcoin
1331 2011-04-16 15:53:28 <manveru> rendering your stash of bitcoins, now there's a project :)
1332 2011-04-16 15:53:29 <luke-jr> didn't some other guy come up with the concept?
1333 2011-04-16 15:53:38 <Blitzboom> wei dai?
1334 2011-04-16 15:53:49 <luke-jr> lfm: not really
1335 2011-04-16 15:54:06 <luke-jr> lfm: just listtransactions and add them up
1336 2011-04-16 15:54:31 <lfm> if you dont know when or where or who is transacting, its hard to claim a slice of it
1337 2011-04-16 15:54:38 <luke-jr> lfm: no, it isn't.
1338 2011-04-16 15:55:01 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1339 2011-04-16 15:55:14 <luke-jr> it would work the same way as cash does today
1340 2011-04-16 15:55:16 <lfm> luke-jr if you use a new address for each txn?
1341 2011-04-16 15:55:24 <luke-jr> the businesses collect the tax with payment
1342 2011-04-16 15:55:38 <luke-jr> they add it up and send it to the government
1343 2011-04-16 15:56:03 <lfm> and if the business decides to quit cooperating?
1344 2011-04-16 15:56:13 <luke-jr> then they get shutdown
1345 2011-04-16 15:57:00 <lfm> they lie about what txn they make, what prices they charge and so on, hows the government prove otherwise
1346 2011-04-16 15:57:06 <luke-jr> audit
1347 2011-04-16 15:58:12 <luke-jr> lfm: bitcoin doesn't change anything in this respect. all your arguments apply equally to cash
1348 2011-04-16 15:58:54 skyewm has joined
1349 2011-04-16 15:59:03 <lfm> I spoze, but I think it could be harder to hide and move cash around than bitcoin
1350 2011-04-16 15:59:29 <lfm> thats what the money laundering question is about
1351 2011-04-16 15:59:37 Lachesis has joined
1352 2011-04-16 15:59:51 <luke-jr> lfm: in the end, someone who disobeys the law is a bad person
1353 2011-04-16 16:00:11 <lfm> well true if the law is a good law
1354 2011-04-16 16:00:39 <luke-jr> true, regardless of how good the law is, so long as the entity making the law has authority to do so.
1355 2011-04-16 16:00:49 <lfm> or do you deny the existance of bad laws?
1356 2011-04-16 16:01:12 <luke-jr> bad laws are still laws, if the State has the authority to make them
1357 2011-04-16 16:01:49 <Lachesis> luke-jr, i wholeheartedly disagree -- you are not only permitted but indeed obliged to break unethical laws.
1358 2011-04-16 16:01:53 <luke-jr> IIRC there's some State that requires wearing a shirt when you have sex at a hotel
1359 2011-04-16 16:01:56 <lfm> yup, they can always build more prisons, usa knows that. fill em up with pot smokers
1360 2011-04-16 16:01:59 <luke-jr> it's a stupid law, but it still must be obeyed
1361 2011-04-16 16:02:11 <Lachesis> stupid != unethical
1362 2011-04-16 16:02:18 <luke-jr> Lachesis: a law which contradicts a higher law is no law at all
1363 2011-04-16 16:02:37 <Lachesis> ah i see
1364 2011-04-16 16:02:38 <lfm> you mean like unconstitutional
1365 2011-04-16 16:02:43 Fullbring has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1366 2011-04-16 16:03:02 <luke-jr> lfm: maybe. I'm not certain how constitutions factor into the State's authority
1367 2011-04-16 16:03:03 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1368 2011-04-16 16:03:20 <Lachesis> i mean unethical, but the US constitution is a decent approximation
1369 2011-04-16 16:03:32 <lfm> constitutuiins are higher laws about how to make laws
1370 2011-04-16 16:03:43 <luke-jr> the US constitution contradicts higher laws, in some respects
1371 2011-04-16 16:03:58 <lfm> please excuse the fumble fingers
1372 2011-04-16 16:04:11 <Lachesis> lfm, i believe luke-jr is referring to religious or natural laws
1373 2011-04-16 16:04:31 <Lachesis> i.e. ten commandments
1374 2011-04-16 16:04:34 <luke-jr> yes
1375 2011-04-16 16:04:34 <lfm> luke-jrfor those who regognize biblical authority (or the authority of the Koran or whatever)
1376 2011-04-16 16:04:51 <luke-jr> lfm: books are books
1377 2011-04-16 16:05:14 <lfm> oh? the bible is just another book to you?
1378 2011-04-16 16:05:39 <luke-jr> not just another book, but it is just a book
1379 2011-04-16 16:05:48 <luke-jr> perfectly inerrant, but still a book
1380 2011-04-16 16:05:56 <luke-jr> and not a law book
1381 2011-04-16 16:06:14 <Blitzboom> perfectly inerrant
1382 2011-04-16 16:06:15 <lfm> ah! well if its perfect its not like any other book
1383 2011-04-16 16:06:16 <Blitzboom> alright
1384 2011-04-16 16:06:36 <luke-jr> lfm: like I said, it's not "just another" book, but it is inevitably still just a book
1385 2011-04-16 16:06:41 <luke-jr> or rather, a collection of books
1386 2011-04-16 16:06:56 <Lachesis> how can it be perfectly inerrant after dozens of translations?
1387 2011-04-16 16:07:11 <lfm> yes, I think some people say sopmething similar about the Koran
1388 2011-04-16 16:07:12 <luke-jr> Lachesis: I was referring to the originals âº
1389 2011-04-16 16:07:39 mmoya has joined
1390 2011-04-16 16:07:41 <luke-jr> Lachesis: the approved translations are also, properly interpreted, inerrant in matters of Faith and morals, however
1391 2011-04-16 16:07:57 <lfm> The Koran doesnt recognize translations as I understand it, so it maybe is more perfect than the bible
1392 2011-04-16 16:08:02 <Lachesis> approved by whom?
1393 2011-04-16 16:08:30 <lfm> the perfect pope
1394 2011-04-16 16:08:41 <lfm> inerrant pope
1395 2011-04-16 16:08:53 <luke-jr> lfm: the Quran is demonic in nature, so infinitely less
1396 2011-04-16 16:08:55 <luke-jr> Lachesis: the Church
1397 2011-04-16 16:09:01 <Blitzboom> hahahaha oh wow
1398 2011-04-16 16:09:02 <lfm> hehehehe lol
1399 2011-04-16 16:09:09 <Blitzboom> demonic quran, holy bible
1400 2011-04-16 16:09:16 <Blitzboom> youâre cool
1401 2011-04-16 16:09:27 <lfm> so the Satanic verses would be angelic I guess
1402 2011-04-16 16:09:37 <Blitzboom> ahahaha
1403 2011-04-16 16:09:49 <Blitzboom> yeah, theists only know two extremes
1404 2011-04-16 16:10:32 <lfm> (dont tell him the Karon copies some of the books of the bible almost word for word)
1405 2011-04-16 16:10:42 <luke-jr> anyhow, religious law would be the Code of Canon Law, not the Bible
1406 2011-04-16 16:11:12 <lfm> ah tes canon law, decreed by that perfect pope again
1407 2011-04-16 16:13:22 tabsa has joined
1408 2011-04-16 16:14:18 <lfm> anyone I guess bitcoin is non-denominational at least, the cristians and jews and islam and budist and hindu and athiest can all use it equally
1409 2011-04-16 16:14:35 <luke-jr> Christianity is non-denominational
1410 2011-04-16 16:14:43 <lfm> hehah lol
1411 2011-04-16 16:17:17 <lfm> luke-jr you must be one of those americans who think that all americans should be free to choose whatever christian protestand church they want to subscrivbe to and that is freedom of religion
1412 2011-04-16 16:17:28 <luke-jr> no
1413 2011-04-16 16:17:32 <luke-jr> protestantism is heresy
1414 2011-04-16 16:17:35 <luke-jr> it should be suppressed
1415 2011-04-16 16:17:52 <luke-jr> freedom of religion is heresy too
1416 2011-04-16 16:17:52 <lfm> oh my, you're a papist?
1417 2011-04-16 16:18:12 <luke-jr> I am a Christian/Catholic.
1418 2011-04-16 16:18:27 <lfm> ah, yes, the one true church
1419 2011-04-16 16:20:41 blablaa has joined
1420 2011-04-16 16:21:52 cypherdoc has left ()
1421 2011-04-16 16:23:45 stamit has joined
1422 2011-04-16 16:25:47 <Lachesis> how can such ignorant people survive in the modern world?
1423 2011-04-16 16:26:12 <cosurgi> how many confirmations are needed on mtgox, to add more btc to my funds?
1424 2011-04-16 16:27:01 <lfm> not sure, I think they use the standard 6 dont they?
1425 2011-04-16 16:27:13 redengin has joined
1426 2011-04-16 16:29:14 DavidSJ is now known as DavidSJ-AFK
1427 2011-04-16 16:29:18 <lfm> Lachesis: one of the ways they survive is isolation (ie home schools)
1428 2011-04-16 16:30:12 <lfm> of course it brings problems in the long run
1429 2011-04-16 16:32:45 <blablaa> Lachesis: which ignorant people u're referring to?
1430 2011-04-16 16:34:46 m00p has joined
1431 2011-04-16 16:35:15 <lfm> blablaa: you just missed most of it. its not really relevant to bitcoin tho so ...
1432 2011-04-16 16:35:27 <mtrlt> go to #bitcoin-religion or soemthing :P
1433 2011-04-16 16:35:45 <blablaa> lfm: i had guessed it :)
1434 2011-04-16 16:36:28 <blablaa> lfm: i'm a bitcoin sceptic too, so i wanted to know how to survive.. :p
1435 2011-04-16 16:36:32 <blablaa> heh
1436 2011-04-16 16:37:02 <lfm> mtrlt: sorry if I offended or repelled or bored you
1437 2011-04-16 16:37:17 <mtrlt> it's the third one and np :P
1438 2011-04-16 16:37:31 moop has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1439 2011-04-16 16:37:47 <mtrlt> i just think that arguing on religion isnt' that productive
1440 2011-04-16 16:37:53 <mtrlt> isn't
1441 2011-04-16 16:38:38 <lfm> you are of course right, faith based beleifs are not subject to logical arguments
1442 2011-04-16 16:38:56 <mtrlt> yep
1443 2011-04-16 16:40:26 <luke-jr> Lachesis: no u
1444 2011-04-16 16:41:26 <mtrlt> to get slightly more on topic, i tried to understand how poclbm works but i hate python more than java+php combined so i decided to start writing my own miner.
1445 2011-04-16 16:41:43 <mtrlt> in c++ :)
1446 2011-04-16 16:42:02 <tcatm> there's oclminer, written in C
1447 2011-04-16 16:42:37 <lfm> mtrlt theres other miners you could try
1448 2011-04-16 16:43:49 <mtrlt> yeah, but i like reinventing the wheel.. who knows if my wheel turns out to be better :-)
1449 2011-04-16 16:44:05 <lfm> ok then have fun, good luck
1450 2011-04-16 16:44:50 <mtrlt> i'll take a look at oclminer, though
1451 2011-04-16 16:44:59 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1452 2011-04-16 16:49:48 Xylch has joined
1453 2011-04-16 16:50:34 <cosurgi> hmm.. 6 confirmations and my bitcoins still aren't on mtgox
1454 2011-04-16 16:51:27 krytzz has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1455 2011-04-16 16:51:42 krytzz has joined
1456 2011-04-16 16:52:40 <jaromil> FYI a new series of articles GENERAL SENTIMENT live now on DYNDY, mostly about VALUE http://www.dyndy.net/general-sentiment/
1457 2011-04-16 16:53:46 <luke-jr> C++ doesn't make sense for a miner IMO
1458 2011-04-16 16:53:49 <lfm> jaromil: is that anything to do with bitcoin?
1459 2011-04-16 16:55:28 DukeOfURL has joined
1460 2011-04-16 16:55:38 <DukeOfURL> hello
1461 2011-04-16 16:55:41 <jaromil> lfm: if you read theory: yes
1462 2011-04-16 16:56:16 <jaromil> esp. considering the conclusion of the article.. ff to that and you'll see the whole talking leads to state that people inventing new currencies is a natural and ethical thing
1463 2011-04-16 16:56:31 <DukeOfURL> in the docs it says to open port 8333 on the firewall. Is this for an incoming connection?
1464 2011-04-16 16:56:42 <jaromil> at DYNDY we are trying to build academic literature around phenomenons like bitcoin: complementary and alternative currencies
1465 2011-04-16 16:56:43 <jgarzik> DukeOfURL: yes
1466 2011-04-16 16:56:49 <luke-jr> DukeOfURL: both
1467 2011-04-16 16:56:57 <luke-jr> DukeOfURL: outgoing is more important
1468 2011-04-16 16:57:41 <luke-jr> jgarzik: is Gavin going to release soon? with the TIME article, it seems the sooner the better
1469 2011-04-16 16:57:55 <DukeOfURL> can a bitcoin client run on a smartphone (no incoming connections)?
1470 2011-04-16 16:58:04 <jaromil> however sry for posting here, i'll keep it on #bitcoin-politics
1471 2011-04-16 16:58:09 <luke-jr> DukeOfURL: yes
1472 2011-04-16 16:58:19 <jaromil> BTW there is a #bitcoin-politics channel :D more ppl need to know i guess
1473 2011-04-16 16:58:28 <luke-jr> DukeOfURL: you don't want the wallet itself there, but you can run a GUI to control one remotely
1474 2011-04-16 16:58:39 <DukeOfURL> ?
1475 2011-04-16 16:58:46 <DukeOfURL> backup?
1476 2011-04-16 16:59:09 <luke-jr> DukeOfURL: the keys and such should all be kept on a server/desktop, not on the phone itself
1477 2011-04-16 16:59:20 <luke-jr> that way if someone steals your phone, they don't get your funds with it
1478 2011-04-16 17:00:05 <lfm> DukeOfURL: theoreticlly it could but its rather impractical. you can still do bitcoin on a smartphone tho via sites such as mybitcoin.com
1479 2011-04-16 17:00:06 <sacarlson> I create a new value for pszTimestamp for my new coin so what do I generate from that I would assume the block.nNonce value?
1480 2011-04-16 17:00:34 <lfm> sacarlson: huh?
1481 2011-04-16 17:01:26 <sacarlson> lfm: generating a proto type genesisblock on another net
1482 2011-04-16 17:02:01 <lfm> oh
1483 2011-04-16 17:03:21 mmoya is now known as maykelmoya
1484 2011-04-16 17:03:45 soconfusedmp has joined
1485 2011-04-16 17:04:03 <soconfusedmp> So im kind of confused where bitcoins come from..what is a miner?
1486 2011-04-16 17:04:57 <sacarlson> soconfusedmp: a miner searches for rare number kind of like the loto you can get lucky if you find one
1487 2011-04-16 17:04:58 <Blitzboom> miner is anyone who processes transactions
1488 2011-04-16 17:05:12 <lfm> miner look for valid timestamp blocks specially formed such that they are hard to compute, bitcoin rewards them with 50 btc for each one they find
1489 2011-04-16 17:05:13 <soconfusedmp> Hmm, so how does one buy bitcoins?
1490 2011-04-16 17:05:24 <soconfusedmp> Like if I want to purchase a t-shirt, where do I get the bitcoins to do so
1491 2011-04-16 17:05:25 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp: you buy them from people who have them or from exchanges
1492 2011-04-16 17:05:26 <Myckel> http://www.mtgox.com
1493 2011-04-16 17:05:27 ersi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1494 2011-04-16 17:05:36 <Zarutian> ;;bc,blocks
1495 2011-04-16 17:05:37 <gribble> 118673
1496 2011-04-16 17:05:37 maykelmoya is now known as mmoya
1497 2011-04-16 17:05:38 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1498 2011-04-16 17:05:42 <Blitzboom> thereâs #bitcoin-otc
1499 2011-04-16 17:05:49 <lfm> soconfusedmp: you can buy btc at mtgox.com for instance
1500 2011-04-16 17:05:56 ersi has joined
1501 2011-04-16 17:06:05 <soconfusedmp> So miners discover bitcoins for free
1502 2011-04-16 17:06:08 <soconfusedmp> And then sell them?
1503 2011-04-16 17:06:11 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp: no
1504 2011-04-16 17:06:12 <mmoya> ;;gpg register maykelmoya 141991CF37903488
1505 2011-04-16 17:06:13 <gribble> Request successful for user maykelmoya. Your challenge string is: 24bc6d34d92173b9709e55cb3bfe44c288adf253999345d1477ff404d7ed4c9b
1506 2011-04-16 17:06:16 <Blitzboom> not for free
1507 2011-04-16 17:06:24 <Blitzboom> hardware is expensive, so is electricity
1508 2011-04-16 17:06:28 <lfm> its not really free, it takes time and electricity
1509 2011-04-16 17:06:42 <soconfusedmp> I see
1510 2011-04-16 17:06:45 <Blitzboom> and mining gets harder the more people participate
1511 2011-04-16 17:06:49 <Blitzboom> because inflation is a fixed rate
1512 2011-04-16 17:06:50 <lfm> ya
1513 2011-04-16 17:06:53 <soconfusedmp> Ah
1514 2011-04-16 17:06:56 <soconfusedmp> That makes sense
1515 2011-04-16 17:07:05 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,wiki controlled inflation
1516 2011-04-16 17:07:05 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_inflation | Mar 9, 2011 ... It would be possible to create a variant of Bitcoin with a controlled inflation rate. Instead of geometrically decreasing the amount of ...
1517 2011-04-16 17:07:06 <soconfusedmp> Interesting stuff
1518 2011-04-16 17:07:10 <soconfusedmp> I hope it catches on
1519 2011-04-16 17:07:16 <Blitzboom> you can help ;)
1520 2011-04-16 17:07:19 <cosurgi> ok. 7 confirmations and my btc are on mtgox.
1521 2011-04-16 17:07:19 <lfm> well not really inflation
1522 2011-04-16 17:07:29 <Blitzboom> lfm: sure, monetary inflation
1523 2011-04-16 17:07:33 <soconfusedmp> How can I help
1524 2011-04-16 17:07:41 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp: spreading awareness of bitcoin
1525 2011-04-16 17:07:46 <Blitzboom> and explaining the benefits
1526 2011-04-16 17:07:48 <Blitzboom> and why it works
1527 2011-04-16 17:07:50 <Xylch> So, how does one mine? Is that was happens when you are Generating Coins?
1528 2011-04-16 17:07:57 <lfm> cosurgi: ok good
1529 2011-04-16 17:07:57 <soconfusedmp> Question
1530 2011-04-16 17:08:03 <mmoya> ;;gpg verify http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/372886/
1531 2011-04-16 17:08:03 <gribble> Registration successful. You are now authenticated for user 'maykelmoya' with key 141991CF37903488
1532 2011-04-16 17:08:10 <soconfusedmp> Whats stopping someone from buying a crap ton of BTC while the price is low?
1533 2011-04-16 17:08:18 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp: nothing
1534 2011-04-16 17:08:20 <soconfusedmp> Then selling it when popularity increases
1535 2011-04-16 17:08:26 <Blitzboom> itâs calld speculation
1536 2011-04-16 17:08:29 <Blitzboom> called*
1537 2011-04-16 17:08:45 <soconfusedmp> Whats the market size right now?
1538 2011-04-16 17:08:48 <lfm> soconfusedmp: depends how much they want to spend
1539 2011-04-16 17:08:50 <soconfusedmp> $$ amount of bitcoins
1540 2011-04-16 17:08:57 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
1541 2011-04-16 17:08:58 <soconfusedmp> in circulation
1542 2011-04-16 17:09:03 <Blitzboom> 5.9 million
1543 2011-04-16 17:09:05 <lfm> ;;bc,totalbtc
1544 2011-04-16 17:09:05 <gribble> Error: "bc,totalbtc" is not a valid command.
1545 2011-04-16 17:09:08 <Blitzboom> out of 21 million
1546 2011-04-16 17:09:11 <lfm> ;;bc,totalbitcoins
1547 2011-04-16 17:09:12 <gribble> Error: "bc,totalbitcoins" is not a valid command.
1548 2011-04-16 17:09:33 <lfm> ;;bc,totalbt
1549 2011-04-16 17:09:34 <gribble> Error: "bc,totalbt" is not a valid command.
1550 2011-04-16 17:09:46 <lfm> ;;bc,totalbc
1551 2011-04-16 17:09:46 <gribble> 5933700.00000000
1552 2011-04-16 17:09:52 <soconfusedmp> This is very interesting stuff lol
1553 2011-04-16 17:09:53 <lfm> there!
1554 2011-04-16 17:10:06 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp: and no, we donât need more of them, because they are very divisible :P
1555 2011-04-16 17:10:12 <Blitzboom> to 0.00000001 BTC
1556 2011-04-16 17:10:16 <Blitzboom> currently
1557 2011-04-16 17:10:30 niekie has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1558 2011-04-16 17:10:32 darkskiez has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1559 2011-04-16 17:10:33 <soconfusedmp> no to what?
1560 2011-04-16 17:10:38 <soconfusedmp> I didnt say you needed more lol
1561 2011-04-16 17:10:39 <lfm> and we are not in any danger of running out
1562 2011-04-16 17:10:42 <Blitzboom> just saying
1563 2011-04-16 17:10:52 <Blitzboom> many people get caught up on that
1564 2011-04-16 17:10:52 <soconfusedmp> Ah yeah
1565 2011-04-16 17:10:57 idnar has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1566 2011-04-16 17:11:16 <Blitzboom> you are coming from TIME i believe? :D
1567 2011-04-16 17:11:34 <soconfusedmp> So what if Im goldman sachs and I put down 5mill to deflate the entire bitcoin market
1568 2011-04-16 17:11:39 <soconfusedmp> and buy it all up at a discount
1569 2011-04-16 17:11:42 <soconfusedmp> then what>
1570 2011-04-16 17:11:51 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp: google "cornering th emarket"
1571 2011-04-16 17:11:59 <lfm> so if everyone who has btc was willing to sell to you at current price (about $1/btc) you could have em all for 6 million dollars
1572 2011-04-16 17:12:00 <soconfusedmp> Its illegal I know
1573 2011-04-16 17:12:02 bitcoiner_ has joined
1574 2011-04-16 17:12:04 <Blitzboom> short: youâll lose a shitton of money
1575 2011-04-16 17:12:08 <Blitzboom> and probably fail
1576 2011-04-16 17:12:11 <soconfusedmp> Not really
1577 2011-04-16 17:12:16 <soconfusedmp> They cornered the market back in the 90's
1578 2011-04-16 17:12:23 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1579 2011-04-16 17:12:30 <soconfusedmp> Theyre probably doing it now with oil :)
1580 2011-04-16 17:12:44 <Blitzboom> ah wait, i guess i didnât understand you correctly
1581 2011-04-16 17:12:53 <Blitzboom> youâre saying if goldman sachs had 5 mil?
1582 2011-04-16 17:13:08 Sthebig has quit (Quit: /quit)
1583 2011-04-16 17:13:10 <Blitzboom> 1st: they donât, 2nd: they wouldnât get them, as it would tage a fortune to buy them
1584 2011-04-16 17:13:22 <Blitzboom> take*
1585 2011-04-16 17:13:27 <soconfusedmp> Well at current market rates it would take $5.9 mill
1586 2011-04-16 17:13:31 <Blitzboom> and not all bitcoins are for sale
1587 2011-04-16 17:13:37 <Blitzboom> wrong
1588 2011-04-16 17:13:38 <ArtForz> no it wouldnt
1589 2011-04-16 17:13:42 <Blitzboom> look at the market depth
1590 2011-04-16 17:13:47 <Blitzboom> itâs very shallow
1591 2011-04-16 17:13:48 <lfm> and I want $2 each for mine!
1592 2011-04-16 17:13:55 <soconfusedmp> Yeah
1593 2011-04-16 17:14:12 <Blitzboom> i HOPE goldman sachs trys that
1594 2011-04-16 17:14:12 <soconfusedmp> Whats the volatility like for these? Good trading opps?
1595 2011-04-16 17:14:23 <Blitzboom> see yourself on http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
1596 2011-04-16 17:14:25 idnar has joined
1597 2011-04-16 17:14:39 <soconfusedmp> 10% in a day not bad
1598 2011-04-16 17:14:46 <lfm> http://digg.com/news/technology/online_cash_bitcoin_could_challenge_
1599 2011-04-16 17:14:49 <Blitzboom> (klick market for charts)
1600 2011-04-16 17:14:57 <lfm> sorry wrong click
1601 2011-04-16 17:15:16 <lfm> http://www.mtgox.com/trade/history graph of prices since the beginning
1602 2011-04-16 17:15:18 <Blitzboom> i donât think you could make much money because of low volume
1603 2011-04-16 17:15:22 <Blitzboom> but for playing around itâs cool
1604 2011-04-16 17:15:57 <soconfusedmp> Well it wouldnt be substantial
1605 2011-04-16 17:16:33 <soconfusedmp> This is pretty cooolll
1606 2011-04-16 17:16:34 <soconfusedmp> lol
1607 2011-04-16 17:16:46 <lfm> probably bring in $100,000. and youd blow up the market
1608 2011-04-16 17:16:48 <Blitzboom> you could do nice insider trading though
1609 2011-04-16 17:17:05 <Blitzboom> i believe that this rally was ignited by insiders of the time article
1610 2011-04-16 17:17:41 <soconfusedmp> Yeah..theres no oversight
1611 2011-04-16 17:17:44 <soconfusedmp> No jurisdiction
1612 2011-04-16 17:17:47 <soconfusedmp> Perffecctt lol
1613 2011-04-16 17:18:04 <soconfusedmp> Just kidding
1614 2011-04-16 17:18:05 <soconfusedmp> of course
1615 2011-04-16 17:18:22 <lfm> thats ok, insiders at the sec will bring the price of btc back down next month
1616 2011-04-16 17:18:44 <soconfusedmp> Why do you say that
1617 2011-04-16 17:18:56 <lfm> just trying to start a rumor
1618 2011-04-16 17:19:01 <mtrlt> :D
1619 2011-04-16 17:19:03 <Blitzboom> lfm wants to buy ;)
1620 2011-04-16 17:19:24 <soconfusedmp> So basically we have this huge active unregulated market
1621 2011-04-16 17:19:34 <Blitzboom> right
1622 2011-04-16 17:19:41 <Blitzboom> although itâs not huge, itâs tiny
1623 2011-04-16 17:19:50 <soconfusedmp> Well
1624 2011-04-16 17:19:56 <soconfusedmp> Compared to larger markets lol
1625 2011-04-16 17:19:59 <soconfusedmp> Its pretty big though
1626 2011-04-16 17:20:07 <soconfusedmp> It has decent volume for such a complicated idea
1627 2011-04-16 17:20:11 <soconfusedmp> its not even mainstream yet
1628 2011-04-16 17:20:15 <DukeOfURL> Does a miner's success depend on CPU speed?
1629 2011-04-16 17:20:26 <Blitzboom> yes, for an obscure cryptocurrency it is big i guess
1630 2011-04-16 17:20:33 <soconfusedmp> brb switching computers
1631 2011-04-16 17:20:35 soconfusedmp has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1632 2011-04-16 17:20:41 <jgarzik> DukeOfURL: yes
1633 2011-04-16 17:21:11 ArtForz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1634 2011-04-16 17:22:12 <lfm> DukeOfURL: cpus are pretty much too slow, almost all blocks are found by GPUs these days
1635 2011-04-16 17:22:38 <lfm> DukeOfURL: but yes it depends on the speed of the hardware
1636 2011-04-16 17:23:30 soconfusedmp1 has joined
1637 2011-04-16 17:23:32 <soconfusedmp1> so back
1638 2011-04-16 17:23:38 <DukeOfURL> so it's a horserace between the different miners?
1639 2011-04-16 17:23:45 <jgarzik> DukeOfURL: yes
1640 2011-04-16 17:24:04 <lfm> more of a lottery where faster machines can check more tickets
1641 2011-04-16 17:24:18 <DukeOfURL> so the guy with the fastest hardware will find all the new blocks?
1642 2011-04-16 17:24:24 <lfm> no
1643 2011-04-16 17:24:25 <Blitzboom> no
1644 2011-04-16 17:24:48 <lfm> the slowest machine still has a proportional chance to find tickets
1645 2011-04-16 17:24:55 <Blitzboom> "mining" is actually finding hashes
1646 2011-04-16 17:25:00 <lfm> ya
1647 2011-04-16 17:25:06 <Blitzboom> and with better hardware, you have more lottery tickets
1648 2011-04-16 17:25:29 <soconfusedmp1> How does one bitcoin mine
1649 2011-04-16 17:25:37 <DukeOfURL> my MacBook Pro is reporting 1400 hashes/s.
1650 2011-04-16 17:25:50 <lfm> ;bc,calc 1400
1651 2011-04-16 17:25:53 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp1: run the software
1652 2011-04-16 17:25:56 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 1400
1653 2011-04-16 17:25:57 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1400 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 8 years, 0 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 19 minutes, and 52 seconds
1654 2011-04-16 17:26:01 <jgarzik> DukeOfURL: unless your electricity is free, you will find a block in about 10 years
1655 2011-04-16 17:26:04 <jgarzik> ok, 8 years
1656 2011-04-16 17:26:17 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,gen 2000
1657 2011-04-16 17:26:17 <DukeOfURL> yikes!
1658 2011-04-16 17:26:17 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 0.0244289569117 BTC per day and 0.00101787320465 BTC per hour.
1659 2011-04-16 17:26:18 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1660 2011-04-16 17:26:20 <jgarzik> DukeOfURL: CPU mining is not worth it
1661 2011-04-16 17:26:25 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,calc 2000
1662 2011-04-16 17:26:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 5 years, 31 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 1 minute, and 54 seconds
1663 2011-04-16 17:27:00 <lfm> DukeOfURL: but its still a chance. that is the average, you can still maybe find one today
1664 2011-04-16 17:27:13 <soconfusedmp1> Wait
1665 2011-04-16 17:27:18 <soconfusedmp1> Theres no account registration?
1666 2011-04-16 17:27:28 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp1: no, itâs based on public key cryptography
1667 2011-04-16 17:27:32 <lfm> soconfusedmp1: just download and run
1668 2011-04-16 17:27:34 <DukeOfURL> ok, I'm switching "generate coins" off. do I still receive new blocks?
1669 2011-04-16 17:27:35 darkskiez has joined
1670 2011-04-16 17:27:40 <soconfusedmp1> So how do I switch between computers
1671 2011-04-16 17:27:42 <Blitzboom> DukeOfURL: yes
1672 2011-04-16 17:27:54 <lulzplzkthx> DukeOfURL: yes, as long as you have connections.
1673 2011-04-16 17:27:55 <Blitzboom> you donât need it on for anything else than mining
1674 2011-04-16 17:27:59 <lfm> soconfusedmp1: um, carefully
1675 2011-04-16 17:28:05 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp1: you have a wallet.dat file
1676 2011-04-16 17:28:10 <Blitzboom> your private keys are stored there
1677 2011-04-16 17:28:14 <soconfusedmp1> ah k
1678 2011-04-16 17:28:23 <Blitzboom> backup and encrypt etc.
1679 2011-04-16 17:28:51 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1680 2011-04-16 17:28:56 FabianB has joined
1681 2011-04-16 17:28:56 <soconfusedmp1> So by clicking generate coins
1682 2011-04-16 17:28:57 <lfm> Blitzboom: you need to be on the net to send a txn too
1683 2011-04-16 17:28:57 <lulzplzkthx> so
1684 2011-04-16 17:28:59 <soconfusedmp1> Thats it?
1685 2011-04-16 17:29:04 <DukeOfURL> and these connections are outgoing from my bitcoin client?
1686 2011-04-16 17:29:07 <Blitzboom> thatâs it
1687 2011-04-16 17:29:18 <lulzplzkthx> what is .lock, addr.dat blk0001.dat, _db.00*, db.log, blkindex.dat, and database?
1688 2011-04-16 17:29:23 <soconfusedmp1> I dont see how many I've generated, tried nothing?
1689 2011-04-16 17:29:39 <Blitzboom> you only generate when you find a block
1690 2011-04-16 17:29:47 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: thats your copy of the "block chain" and some indexes and stuff
1691 2011-04-16 17:29:51 <lulzplzkthx> Ah.
1692 2011-04-16 17:29:52 <Blitzboom> finding a block with an average computer is incredibly hard
1693 2011-04-16 17:29:57 <soconfusedmp1> Ok whats (not connected) 0 connections 0 blocks 0 transactions
1694 2011-04-16 17:30:16 <lulzplzkthx> When CPU mining is seriously no longe rworth it (you know, when it's like 1 BTC or something,) how will new blocks be generated?
1695 2011-04-16 17:30:19 <lulzplzkthx> Or even when it's 0 BTC?
1696 2011-04-16 17:30:24 <lfm> soconfusedmp1: first you need some connections, that should start soon
1697 2011-04-16 17:30:35 <Blitzboom> lulzplzkthx: cpu mining isnât worth it already
1698 2011-04-16 17:30:41 <Blitzboom> people do gpu mining nowadays
1699 2011-04-16 17:30:43 <lulzplzkthx> I know Blitzboom
1700 2011-04-16 17:30:50 <lfm> soconfusedmp1: then you need to download the block chain, its automatic but it can take an hour or more
1701 2011-04-16 17:30:51 <lulzplzkthx> When mining is no longer worth it at all, I mean.
1702 2011-04-16 17:30:51 Kiba has joined
1703 2011-04-16 17:30:52 <Blitzboom> you mean the block reward?
1704 2011-04-16 17:30:57 <Blitzboom> there are transaction fees, then
1705 2011-04-16 17:30:59 <lulzplzkthx> Ah.
1706 2011-04-16 17:31:09 <soconfusedmp1> still not connected
1707 2011-04-16 17:31:09 <Blitzboom> which will be competed on
1708 2011-04-16 17:31:19 <[Noodles]> if noones mining, ALL coins are worthless
1709 2011-04-16 17:31:36 <[Noodles]> so mining will always be *worth it*
1710 2011-04-16 17:31:43 <[Noodles]> at least for those that have coins
1711 2011-04-16 17:31:43 <soconfusedmp1> Wheres my wallet file?
1712 2011-04-16 17:31:45 <lulzplzkthx> True...
1713 2011-04-16 17:31:53 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp1: do you have windows?
1714 2011-04-16 17:31:54 <lfm> soconfusedmp1: if you have trouble connecting it may take 30 minutes
1715 2011-04-16 17:32:01 <soconfusedmp1> Yes windows
1716 2011-04-16 17:32:02 <DukeOfURL> a coin is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.
1717 2011-04-16 17:32:05 <gasteve> I want to put up a bitcoin oriented web app ...I'm curious what web app platforms bitcoiners are using (I've done web development, but with more esoteric stuff and would like to use something more mainstream on this project)
1718 2011-04-16 17:32:08 <Blitzboom> %appdata% and there bitcoin
1719 2011-04-16 17:32:10 <lulzplzkthx> DukeOfURL: not if you can't transfer it.
1720 2011-04-16 17:32:28 <lfm> DukeOfURL: ya, current btc are going for about $1/btc
1721 2011-04-16 17:32:39 <cosurgi> how's BitcoinJ going? Anybody is using it?
1722 2011-04-16 17:32:39 <lulzplzkthx> gasteve: depends on the goal of it?
1723 2011-04-16 17:32:42 <lfm> ;;bc,mtgox
1724 2011-04-16 17:32:45 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.095,"low":0.9503,"vol":26889,"buy":1.018,"sell":1.0849,"last":1.011}}
1725 2011-04-16 17:32:55 <soconfusedmp1> blitzboom im in the bitcoin folder
1726 2011-04-16 17:32:59 <DukeOfURL> can mtgox serve as my wallet?
1727 2011-04-16 17:33:05 <lfm> $1.011/btc
1728 2011-04-16 17:33:11 <DukeOfURL> instead of storing the wallet on the phone?
1729 2011-04-16 17:33:16 <gasteve> well, it would be a web application...would probably want to use openid to manage accounts
1730 2011-04-16 17:33:20 <lfm> DukeOfURL: ya it could
1731 2011-04-16 17:33:23 <gasteve> (not just a simple website)
1732 2011-04-16 17:33:25 <lulzplzkthx> Eventually there will be trillions and trillions of blocks, yeah?
1733 2011-04-16 17:33:40 <lulzplzkthx> And then what if it takes forever to get the client for a new user, or even your HDD can't hold it all
1734 2011-04-16 17:33:43 <Blitzboom> soconfusedmp1: in appdata? then there should be your wallet.dat file
1735 2011-04-16 17:33:54 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: not really, the rate of accumulation is 6 blocks / hour
1736 2011-04-16 17:34:05 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,wiki scalability
1737 2011-04-16 17:34:05 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability | Mar 5, 2011 ... [edit] Scalability targets. VISA handles on average around 2000 transactions/sec , so call it a daily peak rate of 4000/sec. ...
1738 2011-04-16 17:34:08 <DukeOfURL> does the bitcoin client need to see all blocks?
1739 2011-04-16 17:34:09 <Blitzboom> lulzplzkthx
1740 2011-04-16 17:34:14 <DukeOfURL> mintain them?
1741 2011-04-16 17:34:22 <lfm> DukeOfURL: ya kinda
1742 2011-04-16 17:34:30 <lulzplzkthx> 2,628,000 more blocks in 50 years.
1743 2011-04-16 17:34:39 <lulzplzkthx> How large is each block?
1744 2011-04-16 17:34:42 <DukeOfURL> hurmmph
1745 2011-04-16 17:34:48 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: ya, less than trillions
1746 2011-04-16 17:34:53 <lulzplzkthx> True.
1747 2011-04-16 17:35:01 <lulzplzkthx> But how large is each block?
1748 2011-04-16 17:35:05 <Blitzboom> you donât have to load all blocks, lulzplzkthx
1749 2011-04-16 17:35:08 <Blitzboom> see the wiki article
1750 2011-04-16 17:35:10 <lulzplzkthx> ANd I know that 118k blocks already can take about 4 hours to download them all.
1751 2011-04-16 17:35:20 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: as small as 215 bytes
1752 2011-04-16 17:35:22 <lulzplzkthx> Blitzboom: The Introduction / Getting Started one tells you to wait for the all to download.
1753 2011-04-16 17:35:25 <Blitzboom> in the future, there can be optimizations
1754 2011-04-16 17:35:26 <lulzplzkthx> lfm: and as large as?
1755 2011-04-16 17:35:34 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: 1mb
1756 2011-04-16 17:35:38 <Blitzboom> yeah, currently it takes an hour or so
1757 2011-04-16 17:35:41 <lulzplzkthx> kk
1758 2011-04-16 17:35:48 <gasteve> what is languages/frameworks/platforms is tcatm using for bitcoincharts for example?
1759 2011-04-16 17:36:12 <witten> jQuery, for one
1760 2011-04-16 17:36:17 <tcatm> gasteve: python-django and a lot of custom code
1761 2011-04-16 17:36:17 <lulzplzkthx> Blitzboom: depends on your conn.
1762 2011-04-16 17:36:27 <lulzplzkthx> plus i and two others i introduced to bitcoin had to restart the client twice when it got stuck.
1763 2011-04-16 17:36:30 <gasteve> tcatm: custom python code?
1764 2011-04-16 17:36:36 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: download speed is dependant on a lot of factors
1765 2011-04-16 17:36:44 <lulzplzkthx> but i got it down in 1 / 1.5 hours on a slow conn.
1766 2011-04-16 17:36:45 <tcatm> gasteve: yep, and a bunch of scripts and some daemons to collect data
1767 2011-04-16 17:36:46 <gasteve> (I used python maybe ten years ago...I liked it for what it did)
1768 2011-04-16 17:36:48 ArtForz has joined
1769 2011-04-16 17:36:54 <lulzplzkthx> they took 3-4 hours on faster conns.
1770 2011-04-16 17:36:57 <lulzplzkthx> so it seems pretty variable.
1771 2011-04-16 17:37:06 <soconfusedmp1> So I have like 7 connections running and 22500 blocks in the past like 5 minutes
1772 2011-04-16 17:37:08 <soconfusedmp1> Good? Lol
1773 2011-04-16 17:37:22 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: ya, like the speed of the none you are connected to
1774 2011-04-16 17:37:28 <lfm> node
1775 2011-04-16 17:37:34 <lulzplzkthx> yeah i know
1776 2011-04-16 17:37:42 <lulzplzkthx> but consider 4 hours * 250
1777 2011-04-16 17:38:05 <gasteve> are there there plenty of frameworks for python web apps (like openid, account management, etc)?
1778 2011-04-16 17:38:08 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: consider how fast things will be in 50 years
1779 2011-04-16 17:38:14 <lulzplzkthx> lfm: heh.
1780 2011-04-16 17:38:21 <witten> gasteve: sure
1781 2011-04-16 17:38:32 <lulzplzkthx> wel i'm on a 1.5 Mbps conn
1782 2011-04-16 17:38:35 <lulzplzkthx> my aunt has 20 Mbps conn
1783 2011-04-16 17:38:41 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: faster computers and faster connections and new faster software
1784 2011-04-16 17:38:42 <lulzplzkthx> and until we all get fiber, idt it'll be too much faster
1785 2011-04-16 17:38:44 <lulzplzkthx> fiber's expensive.
1786 2011-04-16 17:38:46 <soconfusedmp1> Question: can I run multiple generators on different computers using the same wallet.dat?
1787 2011-04-16 17:38:54 <lulzplzkthx> faster software is hardly an issue. faster computers -> processors are just about at their cap.
1788 2011-04-16 17:39:02 <lulzplzkthx> connections is the main place for improvment.
1789 2011-04-16 17:39:04 <tcatm> gasteve: django handles account management for you
1790 2011-04-16 17:39:41 <gasteve> ah...excellent, thx
1791 2011-04-16 17:39:43 <lfm> soconfusedmp1: much better to use separate wallets on separate computers but you can point multiple miners at one client
1792 2011-04-16 17:39:59 <soconfusedmp1> Thanks
1793 2011-04-16 17:40:09 <soconfusedmp1> And I just need to keep my wallet.dat in a secure place right?
1794 2011-04-16 17:40:11 <lulzplzkthx> lfm: I dual-boot arch + windows, two wallets is better?
1795 2011-04-16 17:40:57 <lulzplzkthx> Considering the wallet is just in %AppData% wouldnt that be very easy to steal via a RAT or something?
1796 2011-04-16 17:41:11 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: they say you can use the same configdir (including wallet and blks and all ) for both OSs on one machine. I never done it myself but they say you can
1797 2011-04-16 17:41:18 Warlord has quit (Changing host)
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1800 2011-04-16 17:41:34 <lulzplzkthx> makes sense.
1801 2011-04-16 17:41:43 <Zarutian> ;;bc,blocks
1802 2011-04-16 17:41:44 <gribble> 118676
1803 2011-04-16 17:41:53 <lulzplzkthx> though tbh, i couldn't get bitcoin to start on arch. no errors, but it didn't start. there was a blank space in the tray where the bitcoin icon shoudla been
1804 2011-04-16 17:41:57 <Blitzboom> lulzplzkthx: thatâs why i use a second wallet for savings which is not online
1805 2011-04-16 17:42:01 <soconfusedmp1> So miners are looking for blocks right? And one block is 1 bitcoin?
1806 2011-04-16 17:42:18 <lulzplzkthx> Blitzboom: i don't understand?
1807 2011-04-16 17:42:20 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: how long did you wait?
1808 2011-04-16 17:42:30 <lulzplzkthx> soconfusedmp1: right now the reward for finding a block is 25 bitcoins.
1809 2011-04-16 17:42:32 <witten> lulzplzkthx: I've seen it take a while to start the GUI sometimes
1810 2011-04-16 17:42:37 <Blitzboom> lulzplzkthx: transfer savings to a second wallet which you keep offline
1811 2011-04-16 17:42:43 <lulzplzkthx> lfm witten not super long... maybe i should try again.
1812 2011-04-16 17:42:49 <witten> lulzplzkthx: try again
1813 2011-04-16 17:42:51 <lulzplzkthx> okay Blitzboom
1814 2011-04-16 17:42:55 <lulzplzkthx> brb, rebooting to arch.
1815 2011-04-16 17:43:06 <lfm> be patient
1816 2011-04-16 17:43:26 Sthebig has joined
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1820 2011-04-16 17:48:10 <sacarlson> ok I found one of my stupid errors I had erased my bitcoin.conf file so it wasn't using my values so now I get this error main.cpp:2041: bool LoadBlockIndex(bool): Assertion `block.hashMerkleRoot == uint256("0x4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b")' failed.
1821 2011-04-16 17:49:49 mtgox has joined
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1823 2011-04-16 17:50:45 <DukeOfURL> is the block chain maintained in memory?
1824 2011-04-16 17:50:59 <tcatm> DukeOfURL: on disk
1825 2011-04-16 17:51:16 amiller has joined
1826 2011-04-16 17:51:25 <tcatm> IIRC the client tries very hard to make sure everything is written to disk so it does not lose data
1827 2011-04-16 17:51:27 <DukeOfURL> so if the process is restarted then it won't have to wait for the download?
1828 2011-04-16 17:51:34 <tcatm> yep
1829 2011-04-16 17:53:08 <DukeOfURL> so, other than the loss of the phone, what is the problem with running a bitcoin client on a smartphone? BTW, if I lose my wallet from my pants pocket then I also lose my cash.
1830 2011-04-16 17:53:24 <DukeOfURL> it's about acceptable risk
1831 2011-04-16 17:53:44 <witten> DukeOfURL: currently requires a ton of storage for the block chain (although I understand BitcoinJ works around that)
1832 2011-04-16 17:53:55 <sacarlson> how do I calculate this hashMerkleRoot value for a new blockchain?
1833 2011-04-16 17:54:00 <tcatm> there's a lightweight mode that doesn't store full blocks
1834 2011-04-16 17:54:09 <tcatm> that would work great on modern smartphones
1835 2011-04-16 17:54:34 <JFK911> i'm offering bitcoin wallet insurance
1836 2011-04-16 17:54:43 <tcatm> add a cloud service that synces all private keys from the phone (encrypted) and you can even lose your phone
1837 2011-04-16 17:54:51 <sacarlson> oh maybe I should just print it before it compares it?
1838 2011-04-16 17:54:54 <witten> JFK911: URL?
1839 2011-04-16 17:55:01 <lulzplzkthx> yeah no it's not opening.
1840 2011-04-16 17:55:14 <JFK911> witten: its still in the planning phases
1841 2011-04-16 17:55:28 <witten> JFK911: how do you ensure that someone who claims they've lost their wallet really has?
1842 2011-04-16 17:55:32 <JFK911> witten: i figure it should work great for me because i plan to require a recent backup as proof.
1843 2011-04-16 17:57:18 <JFK911> if the coins in the backup wallet havent been spent i will replace them
1844 2011-04-16 17:58:47 niekie has joined
1845 2011-04-16 17:58:52 <DukeOfURL> my client shows 12 connections, 118678 blocks, 1 transaction. The transaction show 79 confirmations. So who are these 12 connections with that they can provide 79 confirms?
1846 2011-04-16 17:58:54 <lulzplzkthx> JFK911: prices of insurance?
1847 2011-04-16 17:59:26 <JFK911> good question. 10%?
1848 2011-04-16 17:59:32 <JFK911> thats a good starting point
1849 2011-04-16 17:59:49 <lulzplzkthx> How can you prove they're paying 10%?
1850 2011-04-16 17:59:51 <ArtForz> DukeOfURL: read the wiki, #confirms is simply the number of blocks in the chain after the block that includes your transaction
1851 2011-04-16 18:00:04 <DukeOfURL> ok, sorry
1852 2011-04-16 18:00:20 <JFK911> lulzplzkthx: they wont be able to file a claim for more than the amount of insurance they bought
1853 2011-04-16 18:00:20 <DukeOfURL> but who am i connection to?
1854 2011-04-16 18:00:36 <DukeOfURL> other clients?
1855 2011-04-16 18:00:40 <ArtForz> yep
1856 2011-04-16 18:00:43 <lulzplzkthx> JFK911: neat.
1857 2011-04-16 18:01:04 <lulzplzkthx> How many Bitcoins do you have to start this insurance business with?
1858 2011-04-16 18:01:17 <JFK911> why would i need any?
1859 2011-04-16 18:01:24 <JFK911> people pay premiums
1860 2011-04-16 18:01:42 blablaaa has joined
1861 2011-04-16 18:01:43 <JFK911> if they lose wallet, they present backup wallet as proof they had coins
1862 2011-04-16 18:02:01 <JFK911> easiest way to prove coins in backup wallet aren't spent is to send them to myself
1863 2011-04-16 18:02:23 <JFK911> so, sure, user will get new coins
1864 2011-04-16 18:03:06 <lulzplzkthx> So say they're insured for 500 BTC, paying 50 BTC/month, they lose their money after the first month and their wallet has 400 BTC.
1865 2011-04-16 18:03:10 <lulzplzkthx> Where does the other 50 BTC come from?
1866 2011-04-16 18:04:21 <JFK911> lose money how?
1867 2011-04-16 18:04:28 <JFK911> i'm only offering against loss of wallet.dat
1868 2011-04-16 18:04:40 <JFK911> but you must have backup of wallet for replacement claim
1869 2011-04-16 18:04:51 blablaa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1870 2011-04-16 18:04:55 <JFK911> you can't get 500 btc from insurance if you only had 400 btc
1871 2011-04-16 18:05:00 <witten> what would be interesting is offering insurance to merchants against double spending
1872 2011-04-16 18:05:11 <lulzplzkthx> If they have a backup awllet, why do they need you?
1873 2011-04-16 18:05:25 <JFK911> lulzplzkthx: ok now you are just trying to ruin it
1874 2011-04-16 18:05:31 <lulzplzkthx> No?
1875 2011-04-16 18:05:48 <lulzplzkthx> I don't understand. You're going to send them the cions in their backup wallet.
1876 2011-04-16 18:05:52 <lulzplzkthx> They can do that themselves, quicker and easier.
1877 2011-04-16 18:05:56 <JFK911> no i'm going to send them new coins.
1878 2011-04-16 18:05:58 <lulzplzkthx> And of course, cheaper.
1879 2011-04-16 18:06:13 <lulzplzkthx> Where do the new coins come from? And why?
1880 2011-04-16 18:06:20 blablaaa is now known as blablaa
1881 2011-04-16 18:07:04 <JFK911> witten: sure you could insure transactions after some number of confirmations
1882 2011-04-16 18:07:32 <luke-jr> there's a lot of insurance business to be made in bitcoin :p
1883 2011-04-16 18:07:46 <CIA-89> bitcoin: genjix * r1ad7a1cd7e4d intersango/deposit.php: Removed authorisation warning since it's redundant now. http://tinyurl.com/3pjtbj8
1884 2011-04-16 18:07:49 <witten> JFK911: *after* some number of confirmations? wouldn't it only be useful to the merchant if they are insured before there are any confirmations?
1885 2011-04-16 18:08:09 <JFK911> why are you going to tell the merchant that?
1886 2011-04-16 18:08:27 <witten> JFK911: huh?
1887 2011-04-16 18:08:30 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1888 2011-04-16 18:08:31 <lulzplzkthx> lol JFK911 is being a troll.
1889 2011-04-16 18:08:35 <mtrlt> so they aren't going to figure that out themselves?: D
1890 2011-04-16 18:08:55 <JFK911> well sure if they decide they don't need it they can always not buy it anymore
1891 2011-04-16 18:09:14 <lulzplzkthx> lol JFK911 is just trying to scam nubs out of money
1892 2011-04-16 18:09:19 <mtrlt> well, our current system _is_ about selling people things they don't need..
1893 2011-04-16 18:09:36 <mtrlt> with all them gigantic shopping malls
1894 2011-04-16 18:09:40 <JFK911> yeah, how much crap do you see for sale that nobody needs or is overpriced or is absolutely useless yet people still buy it
1895 2011-04-16 18:09:41 <echelon> how does ripple differ from bitcoins?
1896 2011-04-16 18:09:42 <lulzplzkthx> not really things that have no use though
1897 2011-04-16 18:09:56 <mtrlt> the same thing
1898 2011-04-16 18:09:59 <witten> echelon: completely different model
1899 2011-04-16 18:10:10 redengin has joined
1900 2011-04-16 18:10:10 <mtrlt> if they don't need it, it's no use. if it's of no use, they don't need it. therefore, same thing :)
1901 2011-04-16 18:10:13 <echelon> yeah
1902 2011-04-16 18:10:32 EvanR has joined
1903 2011-04-16 18:10:37 <echelon> i'm not exactly what ripple is based on
1904 2011-04-16 18:10:42 <JFK911> if someone doesn't think or read and my contract makes them feel better, it's probably worth it for them
1905 2011-04-16 18:10:44 <echelon> exactly sure*
1906 2011-04-16 18:11:01 <JFK911> it's not like i am planning to promise things i won't do
1907 2011-04-16 18:11:03 <mtrlt> JFK911: of course :)
1908 2011-04-16 18:11:19 <lulzplzkthx> Oh hey, bitcoin finally opened.
1909 2011-04-16 18:11:23 <mtrlt> insurance business in general is awesome though
1910 2011-04-16 18:11:28 <mtrlt> you get to play with other people's money
1911 2011-04-16 18:11:41 <lulzplzkthx> mtrlt: Does your computer have no use?
1912 2011-04-16 18:11:44 <lulzplzkthx> You don't need it.
1913 2011-04-16 18:11:52 <mtrlt> it has a use. it mines bitcoins for me :)
1914 2011-04-16 18:11:59 <JFK911> its all liability and i am not sure i'm up for that
1915 2011-04-16 18:12:02 <lulzplzkthx> But you don't need it mtrlt
1916 2011-04-16 18:12:17 <mtrlt> i need bitcoins so i can get euros so i can get food so i don't die as fast
1917 2011-04-16 18:12:36 <EvanR> you dont need the euros
1918 2011-04-16 18:12:37 <lfm> you could work
1919 2011-04-16 18:12:44 <luke-jr> btw, insurance WTF:
1920 2011-04-16 18:12:44 * EvanR eats a bitcoin-paid pizza
1921 2011-04-16 18:12:47 <mtrlt> if i don't need to be alive for the next week, then i accept your logic :)
1922 2011-04-16 18:12:55 <lulzplzkthx> Ah, well I need insurance so I can make sure I don't lose my bitcoins so I can get USD so I can get food so I don't die fast.
1923 2011-04-16 18:13:02 <luke-jr> apparently if you qualify for Medicaid, it's illegal for doctors to charge you
1924 2011-04-16 18:13:12 <luke-jr> so basically, it's illegal to self-pay
1925 2011-04-16 18:13:13 <ArtForz> lfm: stop giving them ideas
1926 2011-04-16 18:13:29 <mtrlt> work, bah
1927 2011-04-16 18:13:40 <EvanR> ArtForz: what was that mobo model you told me which is good for 2 5970s?
1928 2011-04-16 18:13:57 <mtrlt> lulzplzkthx: but when you think about it, it might be more worth your while to just keep your wallet secure yourself :)
1929 2011-04-16 18:14:06 <ArtForz> 870-G45 ?
1930 2011-04-16 18:14:24 <EvanR> thats it
1931 2011-04-16 18:14:28 * EvanR writes down
1932 2011-04-16 18:14:40 <lulzplzkthx> mtrlt: I agree.
1933 2011-04-16 18:15:00 <lulzplzkthx> Why is Bitcoin warning me to check my date and time. :S
1934 2011-04-16 18:15:15 <ArtForz> probably ebcause your date/time/timezone is wrong
1935 2011-04-16 18:15:18 <lulzplzkthx> It's not.
1936 2011-04-16 18:15:32 <lulzplzkthx> It may be one second behind.
1937 2011-04-16 18:15:41 Lachesis has joined
1938 2011-04-16 18:15:49 <ArtForz> it only says that when your clock is more than 2h off from the majority of your peers
1939 2011-04-16 18:15:54 <EvanR> and a good 850 PS will power them both? any particular brand i want?
1940 2011-04-16 18:16:05 <lulzplzkthx> Well, it's currently 2:12 EDT.
1941 2011-04-16 18:16:32 <ArtForz> corsair is supposed to be decent, I personally like NZXT (aka SuperFlower) 80+ golds
1942 2011-04-16 18:16:52 <lfm> Sat Apr 16 18:11:52 UTC 2011
1943 2011-04-16 18:16:52 <EvanR> k
1944 2011-04-16 18:17:47 <lfm> should be dst not standard
1945 2011-04-16 18:18:05 <ArtForz> antec is also good
1946 2011-04-16 18:18:09 <sacarlson> wow I think I got my new coin working, at least it won't crash to start
1947 2011-04-16 18:18:24 <lfm> wtg
1948 2011-04-16 18:18:40 phantomcircuit has joined
1949 2011-04-16 18:18:51 <witten> mine still crashes on start :(
1950 2011-04-16 18:19:06 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1951 2011-04-16 18:19:15 <sacarlson> time to selebrate with a beer
1952 2011-04-16 18:19:32 <EvanR> im trying to reduce my costs while having a decent level of reliability
1953 2011-04-16 18:19:39 <EvanR> does newegg do bulk
1954 2011-04-16 18:19:42 <EvanR> or is there a better place
1955 2011-04-16 18:21:28 soconfusedmp1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1956 2011-04-16 18:21:29 <ArtForz> coolermaster - pure crap, cougar - SF rebrand, enermax - mixed bag, their 80+ golds are supposed to be decent, ocz - meh. scythe - crap, thortech - relabeled highpower crap
1957 2011-04-16 18:22:03 <ArtForz> actually highpower rebrands are decent high-efficiency PSUs, *IF* they arent DOA
1958 2011-04-16 18:22:47 <ArtForz> their QC seems to consist of "ship it"
1959 2011-04-16 18:23:14 <EvanR> 80 plus certified matters?
1960 2011-04-16 18:23:29 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, have a suggestion for a PSU for a single 5870 + i3
1961 2011-04-16 18:23:35 * Zarutian been reading http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/gr29p/eleven_people_just_went_to_jail_for_bank_fraud_in/ and is speculating if btc would help the people who got money tied up in accounts at these sites. Your opinion?
1962 2011-04-16 18:23:45 <ArtForz> well, kinda
1963 2011-04-16 18:24:00 <ArtForz> problem is, most non-80+ PSUs are only mid-70s
1964 2011-04-16 18:24:22 <ArtForz> a decent 80+ gold is >= 90% at mid-load
1965 2011-04-16 18:25:20 <[Tycho]> I never saw 80+ gold :)
1966 2011-04-16 18:25:45 <ArtForz> at about 540W output, thats ~620 vs. ~750W at the plug
1967 2011-04-16 18:26:45 <phantomcircuit> hmm
1968 2011-04-16 18:26:59 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: check your timezone setting then
1969 2011-04-16 18:27:16 <ArtForz> thats about $55 over 6 months at $0.1/kWh
1970 2011-04-16 18:28:02 toad_ has joined
1971 2011-04-16 18:28:29 <toad_> how long should it take for my bitcoins to show up on my mtgox account?
1972 2011-04-16 18:29:04 <ArtForz> usually 6 confirmations + a few minutes
1973 2011-04-16 18:29:22 <toad_> hmmm, looks like it did arrive in fact
1974 2011-04-16 18:29:26 <toad_> i had a sell order still up
1975 2011-04-16 18:29:33 <phantomcircuit> so im gonna want like a 600W PSU for a system with a single 5870?
1976 2011-04-16 18:29:58 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: 600W is imo overkill
1977 2011-04-16 18:30:02 <toad_> still, i got a reasonable rate ...
1978 2011-04-16 18:30:32 <ArtForz> problem is, cheap PSUs are generally horribly overrated
1979 2011-04-16 18:30:39 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, i've got 2x3.5",2x2.5" hdds
1980 2011-04-16 18:30:54 <ArtForz> thats about 25W
1981 2011-04-16 18:30:56 <phantomcircuit> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182238
1982 2011-04-16 18:30:57 <phantomcircuit> rofl
1983 2011-04-16 18:31:04 <phantomcircuit> LET THERE BE LIGHT
1984 2011-04-16 18:31:34 <ArtForz> besides the gaudy design, not really a bad PSU
1985 2011-04-16 18:31:38 toad_ has left ("Konversation terminated!")
1986 2011-04-16 18:32:00 <ArtForz> another superflower rebrand ;)
1987 2011-04-16 18:32:38 <phantomcircuit> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153131
1988 2011-04-16 18:33:15 <phantomcircuit> 10$ more
1989 2011-04-16 18:33:17 <phantomcircuit> worth it?
1990 2011-04-16 18:33:37 <ArtForz> looks pretty nice
1991 2011-04-16 18:35:26 <EvanR> NZXT out of stock
1992 2011-04-16 18:35:33 * EvanR goes to tiger direct
1993 2011-04-16 18:36:12 <ArtForz> XION 90+ Gold = also superflower ;)
1994 2011-04-16 18:38:16 <ArtForz> they seem to OEM like 70% of no-brand 80+ gold PSUs
1995 2011-04-16 18:39:48 netxshare has joined
1996 2011-04-16 18:40:35 <EvanR> im looking at corsair CMPSU-850TXV2 at tiger direct
1997 2011-04-16 18:40:40 <EvanR> 80+ bronze
1998 2011-04-16 18:41:50 <ArtForz> another one, kingwin lazer gold
1999 2011-04-16 18:42:01 <ArtForz> yep, again superflower
2000 2011-04-16 18:42:36 <EvanR> searching for superflower i get nothing
2001 2011-04-16 18:42:51 <ArtForz> I think they sell under their own name in eurpe and asia only
2002 2011-04-16 18:43:08 molecular has joined
2003 2011-04-16 18:46:26 glass has joined
2004 2011-04-16 18:56:10 <lulzplzkthx> Okay, I'm trying out pooled mining with deepbit.net. I'm confused though. Ubasoft is say ~5.46 MHash/s. How many Khash/s is that?
2005 2011-04-16 18:56:40 <JFK911> 5460
2006 2011-04-16 18:56:44 <ArtForz> 5460
2007 2011-04-16 18:56:53 <ArtForz> ;;bc,gen 5460
2008 2011-04-16 18:56:53 <soultcer> You are kidding, right?
2009 2011-04-16 18:56:53 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 5460 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 0.0666910523689 BTC per day and 0.0027787938487 BTC per hour.
2010 2011-04-16 18:57:00 <lulzplzkthx> Well, I'm not kidding BECAUSE
2011 2011-04-16 18:57:04 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 5460
2012 2011-04-16 18:57:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5460 Khps, given current difficulty of 82347.22294654 , is 2 years, 2 weeks, 5 days, 17 hours, 25 minutes, and 5 seconds
2013 2011-04-16 18:57:08 <lulzplzkthx> With the normal Bitcoinc lient I get ~1,600.
2014 2011-04-16 18:57:17 <lulzplzkthx> So I'm curious as to how I'm now doing 4-5 times that much.
2015 2011-04-16 18:57:25 <lulzplzkthx> 3-4*
2016 2011-04-16 18:57:25 <JFK911> it's called unroll-loops
2017 2011-04-16 18:57:37 <lulzplzkthx> ?
2018 2011-04-16 18:57:49 <JFK911> explained in gcc manual
2019 2011-04-16 18:59:29 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2020 2011-04-16 19:00:38 <lulzplzkthx> kk, thanks.
2021 2011-04-16 19:00:46 <lulzplzkthx> Why wouldn't the normal Bitcoin client use it?
2022 2011-04-16 19:01:34 Micks has joined
2023 2011-04-16 19:02:04 <Micks> hey guys, just wondering whats the bitcoin generation rate for a dualcore cpu
2024 2011-04-16 19:02:55 <ArtForz> ... not much
2025 2011-04-16 19:03:20 <mtrlt> GPUs are a lot faster
2026 2011-04-16 19:03:38 <Micks> how would i tap into my gpu then?
2027 2011-04-16 19:03:43 <mtrlt> what GPU do you havE?
2028 2011-04-16 19:03:52 <Micks> 9600 gt
2029 2011-04-16 19:03:53 <ArtForz> yeah, about an order of magnitude faster or two
2030 2011-04-16 19:04:19 <mtrlt> i have no idea about nvidia, which models support what
2031 2011-04-16 19:04:51 <Micks> is there any article explaining gpu usage on the wiki>?
2032 2011-04-16 19:04:57 <[Noodles]> 9600gt should work fine, but isn't much faster than your CPU, maybe 5-7Mhash/s
2033 2011-04-16 19:04:57 <mtrlt> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
2034 2011-04-16 19:04:59 <mtrlt> there.
2035 2011-04-16 19:05:00 <netxshare> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA
2036 2011-04-16 19:05:33 <mtrlt> nvidias are a lot slower than atis though :c
2037 2011-04-16 19:05:39 <Diablo-D3> dude
2038 2011-04-16 19:05:42 <Diablo-D3> the next person in here
2039 2011-04-16 19:05:48 <Diablo-D3> that brings up nvidia
2040 2011-04-16 19:05:52 <Diablo-D3> is going to get killed
2041 2011-04-16 19:05:56 prax_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2042 2011-04-16 19:05:57 <Micks> hmm so how do i tap into my gpu?
2043 2011-04-16 19:06:07 <cosurgi> hmm. what is this transaction? Txn 35da077d838d211551df4674b1f64d6cdef986423403f80dff99f86aa0c1c6ef: 172viDtpemKaamsrYSTiQfxFyDJjdh3znC 107.1ä TBC
2044 2011-04-16 19:06:08 <Diablo-D3> Micks: you download a gpu miner.
2045 2011-04-16 19:06:10 <netxshare> I bought a nvidia over ati, because I have always had a bad time with their cards
2046 2011-04-16 19:06:11 <ArtForz> nvidia!
2047 2011-04-16 19:06:11 <mtrlt> download a gpu miner like https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Poclbm
2048 2011-04-16 19:06:16 <Micks> thanks!
2049 2011-04-16 19:06:18 <luke-jr> netxshare: FAIL
2050 2011-04-16 19:06:23 <mtrlt> Micks: i dunno there mgiht be nvidia-specific miners
2051 2011-04-16 19:06:23 <EvanR> anyone selling 5970? is so how much
2052 2011-04-16 19:06:24 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: you wasted your money
2053 2011-04-16 19:06:33 <netxshare> I dunno my 570 is fine for games
2054 2011-04-16 19:06:43 <cosurgi> netxshare: I use nvidia for desktop, and ati for mining. Give it back.
2055 2011-04-16 19:06:45 <Diablo-D3> no, download a gpu miner like http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1721.0;all
2056 2011-04-16 19:06:46 <netxshare> was the best option at the time for 2560x1600 gaming
2057 2011-04-16 19:06:47 <mtrlt> i've had 3 atis and no problems. and the nvidia before that was a geforce mx 2 :)
2058 2011-04-16 19:06:47 <cosurgi> ... if you can
2059 2011-04-16 19:06:52 <mtrlt> 2 mx
2060 2011-04-16 19:07:03 JStoker has quit (Excess Flood)
2061 2011-04-16 19:07:05 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: nope, your 570 pretty much sucks at games
2062 2011-04-16 19:07:08 <luke-jr> I used ATi up until the day I got my Intel
2063 2011-04-16 19:07:23 <netxshare> oh
2064 2011-04-16 19:07:24 <Micks> haha
2065 2011-04-16 19:07:27 <mtrlt> i've also used AMD for.... ten years?
2066 2011-04-16 19:07:30 <Micks> i smell a fanboy skirmish
2067 2011-04-16 19:07:31 <Micks> :P
2068 2011-04-16 19:07:39 <netxshare> I don't really care
2069 2011-04-16 19:07:42 <mtrlt> and the intel before that was an 90mhz pentium!
2070 2011-04-16 19:07:44 <netxshare> it runs my games
2071 2011-04-16 19:07:49 <Diablo-D3> nope, Im just looking at about two dozen independent benchmarks
2072 2011-04-16 19:07:53 <netxshare> and now, ill get a 6990
2073 2011-04-16 19:07:53 <ArtForz> dunno, ATIs drivers *still* are shit
2074 2011-04-16 19:07:56 <luke-jr> netxshare: most of us use Linux
2075 2011-04-16 19:08:00 genjix has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2076 2011-04-16 19:08:07 <netxshare> the only reason I went nvidia was I did not want to deal with ati drivers
2077 2011-04-16 19:08:08 <luke-jr> nvidia is total crap in Linux
2078 2011-04-16 19:08:15 <Diablo-D3> nvidia 5xx vs radeon 69xx, nvidia falls behind in both performance/dollar and performance/watt
2079 2011-04-16 19:08:23 <Diablo-D3> and the fastest card ever currently belongs to the 6990
2080 2011-04-16 19:08:35 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: even with the newer SDKs?
2081 2011-04-16 19:08:37 <Diablo-D3> nvidia is working on some sort of insane tri-gpu card
2082 2011-04-16 19:08:37 <netxshare> the 6990 was not out when I bought my 570
2083 2011-04-16 19:08:42 <netxshare> and I did not have that kind of money
2084 2011-04-16 19:08:42 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: we're talking games here
2085 2011-04-16 19:08:54 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: then Intel wins
2086 2011-04-16 19:08:55 <Diablo-D3> mining, nivida never had a chance
2087 2011-04-16 19:09:15 <Diablo-D3> nvidia has been about 5x slower for mining over the past two years
2088 2011-04-16 19:09:17 <netxshare> my 570 does 120mh/s wooo!
2089 2011-04-16 19:09:23 <ArtForz> over here upgrade from 11.1 to to 11.3 completely broke my wifes box
2090 2011-04-16 19:09:39 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: a 5870 does over 320.
2091 2011-04-16 19:09:51 genjix has joined
2092 2011-04-16 19:09:51 <Diablo-D3> I think someone got a stock one up to 335 recently
2093 2011-04-16 19:09:51 genjix has quit (Changing host)
2094 2011-04-16 19:09:51 genjix has joined
2095 2011-04-16 19:10:06 <netxshare> had I looked into bitcoin before I built this computer I would have gone ati
2096 2011-04-16 19:10:17 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: also, wtf.
2097 2011-04-16 19:10:21 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: define broke
2098 2011-04-16 19:10:39 <luke-jr> netxshare: definitely go Intel + ATi :P
2099 2011-04-16 19:10:47 <luke-jr> Intel for games/monitor/etc
2100 2011-04-16 19:10:49 <luke-jr> ATi for mining
2101 2011-04-16 19:10:49 <netxshare> I have a i7 960
2102 2011-04-16 19:10:50 <Diablo-D3> you mean AMD + AMD.
2103 2011-04-16 19:10:54 <ArtForz> BSOD when trying to start anything using D3D
2104 2011-04-16 19:11:00 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: no, I don't.
2105 2011-04-16 19:11:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wtf. did 11.2 do it as well?
2106 2011-04-16 19:11:09 <ArtForz> nope
2107 2011-04-16 19:11:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and which card?
2108 2011-04-16 19:11:12 <luke-jr> netxshare: i7-960 has crappy GPU, if it has one at all
2109 2011-04-16 19:11:22 <ArtForz> xfired 5770s
2110 2011-04-16 19:11:27 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: huh, weird.
2111 2011-04-16 19:11:29 JStoker has joined
2112 2011-04-16 19:11:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: does the 11.4 beta do it?
2113 2011-04-16 19:11:34 <netxshare> it does not have a gpu on the cpu die
2114 2011-04-16 19:11:43 <ArtForz> dunno, havent tried it yet
2115 2011-04-16 19:11:43 <netxshare> it's a first gen i7
2116 2011-04-16 19:11:48 <netxshare> the new ones do tho
2117 2011-04-16 19:11:49 <luke-jr> netxshare: i5-2400 has the 2nd best GPU for Linux
2118 2011-04-16 19:11:52 <JFK911> amd is crap, it's 2011 why do we have single thread cores? do people want to remember the 80's or what?
2119 2011-04-16 19:11:59 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: dude, quit trolling
2120 2011-04-16 19:12:02 <ArtForz> wtf?
2121 2011-04-16 19:12:02 <luke-jr> netxshare: only beat by the new i7s
2122 2011-04-16 19:12:17 <netxshare> I would like a i5 2nd gen for a xbmc box
2123 2011-04-16 19:12:23 <JFK911> sandy bridge would beat all amd cores if intel turned up the clock that high
2124 2011-04-16 19:12:30 <Diablo-D3> intel support under linux is still iffy on the newer chips unless you're willing to grab X/intel driver/dri/drm/mesa/gallium/etc from git
2125 2011-04-16 19:12:43 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: FUD
2126 2011-04-16 19:12:44 <ArtForz> btw, if you need lots of ram and dont have a few $k sitting around, AMD is pretty much the only way to go
2127 2011-04-16 19:13:02 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: it's been working 100% for me on released versions of everything since I got mine a week after they were released.
2128 2011-04-16 19:13:13 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: how so? have you actually been following mesa dev lately?
2129 2011-04-16 19:13:25 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: i don't have to. I know it works fine with released versions.
2130 2011-04-16 19:13:28 <ArtForz> even old i7 maxes out at 24GB
2131 2011-04-16 19:13:31 eao has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2132 2011-04-16 19:13:48 <JFK911> ya those guys can get intel zion
2133 2011-04-16 19:13:56 <JFK911> that much memory without ECC is dumb anyway
2134 2011-04-16 19:14:04 <ArtForz> actually with ecc
2135 2011-04-16 19:14:10 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: dude, you still dont even have shaders yet. or opencl.
2136 2011-04-16 19:14:15 <JFK911> i7 wont do ecc it's crippled
2137 2011-04-16 19:14:20 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: I agree btw
2138 2011-04-16 19:14:27 <ArtForz> 6100 series opterons even support unregistered ecc ram ;)
2139 2011-04-16 19:14:29 <Diablo-D3> ECC on generic AMD boxes == win
2140 2011-04-16 19:14:31 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: WORKS FOR ME
2141 2011-04-16 19:14:38 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: and no, Linux has no OpenCL *period*
2142 2011-04-16 19:14:40 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: its not even opterons
2143 2011-04-16 19:14:43 <Diablo-D3> normal phenoms do it
2144 2011-04-16 19:14:46 <netxshare> with deepbit.net can I run the same worker on different computers with out having any issues?
2145 2011-04-16 19:14:51 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: actually, it does
2146 2011-04-16 19:14:55 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: nope
2147 2011-04-16 19:14:59 <netxshare> yeah
2148 2011-04-16 19:15:00 <JFK911> the ecc part is win, the single thread core that does 60% of the work an intel does in one clock is not
2149 2011-04-16 19:15:02 <Diablo-D3> they've gotten the equivilent of hello world working on mesa now
2150 2011-04-16 19:15:04 <Diablo-D3> but only on radeons
2151 2011-04-16 19:15:09 redengin has quit (Quit: AndroIRC)
2152 2011-04-16 19:15:19 <netxshare> I compiled it on my box early today
2153 2011-04-16 19:15:21 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: clock myth.
2154 2011-04-16 19:15:22 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: oh boy. that's *so* OpenCL support
2155 2011-04-16 19:15:26 <netxshare> pyopencl
2156 2011-04-16 19:15:32 <cosurgi> luke-jr: I use opencl on debian, whats the problem?
2157 2011-04-16 19:15:35 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: cry more.
2158 2011-04-16 19:15:41 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: we're talking in mesa here
2159 2011-04-16 19:15:42 <luke-jr> netxshare: we're talking about real Linux, not your nvidia fork
2160 2011-04-16 19:15:57 <cosurgi> oh, ok.
2161 2011-04-16 19:16:03 <Diablo-D3> they'll be able to run my miner sometime next year
2162 2011-04-16 19:16:05 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: Intel has working OpenCL on Windows in beta. Only a matter of time until they port it to Linux
2163 2011-04-16 19:16:14 <ArtForz> yeah, K10 arch is getting kinda long in the tooth
2164 2011-04-16 19:16:16 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: uh, no one wants their shit.
2165 2011-04-16 19:16:16 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: i wouldn't *want* to run your miner
2166 2011-04-16 19:16:26 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: yes, you dont want to run superior miner
2167 2011-04-16 19:16:32 <netxshare> o.O
2168 2011-04-16 19:16:33 <ArtForz> considering the core is still basically a K8... no surprise
2169 2011-04-16 19:16:34 <luke-jr> Java is crap. I refuse to install it.
2170 2011-04-16 19:16:45 <netxshare> so you don't play minecraft then?
2171 2011-04-16 19:16:46 <Diablo-D3> your mom is crap... I still fuck her though
2172 2011-04-16 19:16:49 <luke-jr> netxshare: nope.
2173 2011-04-16 19:16:52 <JFK911> what is intel's opencl implementation like? has anyone tried mining with it?
2174 2011-04-16 19:17:06 <JFK911> does sandy bridge really make you give 128mbytes to the video?
2175 2011-04-16 19:17:11 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: intel sells cpus that mine faster than their fastest gma hd3000
2176 2011-04-16 19:17:22 RazielZ has quit ()
2177 2011-04-16 19:17:32 <JFK911> why are they even bothering with opencl then
2178 2011-04-16 19:17:38 <luke-jr> JFK911: ATI's Stream SDK claimed to mine on it, but it might have just been the CPU
2179 2011-04-16 19:17:39 <Diablo-D3> because mining just whores hardware
2180 2011-04-16 19:17:43 <Micks> hey guys, so i installed bitcoin on partition x but it still bitches about c drive disk space, where do i respecify the output generation for the program?
2181 2011-04-16 19:17:59 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: its not nearly as bad on normal sp fp math shit
2182 2011-04-16 19:17:59 <JFK911> luke-jr: probably was
2183 2011-04-16 19:18:09 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: mining just rapes harder on intel than it does nvidia
2184 2011-04-16 19:18:15 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stats
2185 2011-04-16 19:18:16 <ArtForz> still pretty bad
2186 2011-04-16 19:18:17 <luke-jr> JFK911: the thing is, I *thought* my CPU was idle for that time
2187 2011-04-16 19:18:17 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118686 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 257 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 13 hours, 41 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 91822.41758241
2188 2011-04-16 19:18:19 <luke-jr> JFK911: but not sure
2189 2011-04-16 19:18:25 blablaa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2190 2011-04-16 19:18:25 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: the kind of integer performance mining needs just gmas cant do it
2191 2011-04-16 19:18:31 <Micks> because bitcoin keeps shutting down every once in a while
2192 2011-04-16 19:18:32 <JFK911> okay
2193 2011-04-16 19:18:44 <luke-jr> JFK911: on the other hand, cpuminer achieves 14 MH/s on the CPU cores
2194 2011-04-16 19:18:46 <ArtForz> even for SP FP intel is lose**2
2195 2011-04-16 19:18:47 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: however, they have high bitrate high profile 1080p h264 decoding now
2196 2011-04-16 19:18:52 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: so its not all that bad
2197 2011-04-16 19:19:02 <luke-jr> JFK911: in theory, optimization for AVX and such *should* yield 3x improvement
2198 2011-04-16 19:19:10 <Diablo-D3> in theory
2199 2011-04-16 19:19:14 <ArtForz> nope
2200 2011-04-16 19:19:19 <ArtForz> we're bandwidth limited
2201 2011-04-16 19:19:20 <Diablo-D3> but most likely it'll be around 0x improvement.
2202 2011-04-16 19:19:27 <ArtForz> the internal data buses didnt get wider
2203 2011-04-16 19:19:28 <Diablo-D3> since they're just optimizing the instruction usage
2204 2011-04-16 19:19:32 <Diablo-D3> yeah what Art said
2205 2011-04-16 19:19:33 <sacarlson> with only one in my proto network in -gen mode will it create any coins? how do I list progress in -gen from the bitcoind cli?
2206 2011-04-16 19:19:48 <Diablo-D3> cpu mining is already optimized for multiple threads
2207 2011-04-16 19:20:04 <ArtForz> so the only benefit of AVX - it ties up 2 SSE units in 1 instruction
2208 2011-04-16 19:20:06 prax has joined
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2210 2011-04-16 19:20:06 prax has joined
2211 2011-04-16 19:20:10 <Diablo-D3> yeah
2212 2011-04-16 19:20:23 <Diablo-D3> so single threaded shit? 2x speed on the SSE instructions
2213 2011-04-16 19:20:24 <luke-jr> benchmarks show 3x improvement
2214 2011-04-16 19:20:25 <JFK911> avx is some vector extension?
2215 2011-04-16 19:20:33 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: its 256 bit SSE
2216 2011-04-16 19:20:41 <ArtForz> luke-jr: benchmarks for what?
2217 2011-04-16 19:20:42 <JFK911> oh, i tried to guess from letters
2218 2011-04-16 19:20:47 <luke-jr> ArtForz: SHA256
2219 2011-04-16 19:21:02 <JFK911> should i yum update hmmm
2220 2011-04-16 19:21:03 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: basically, they have 32 bit ops that are 8 wide instead of normally 4 wide
2221 2011-04-16 19:21:11 <JFK911> oh ok
2222 2011-04-16 19:21:22 <ArtForz> compared against what? gcc-compiled sse intrinsics?
2223 2011-04-16 19:21:27 <Diablo-D3> which is great and all.... but it ties up 2 math units across 2 cores to do it
2224 2011-04-16 19:21:37 <ArtForz> errr... no
2225 2011-04-16 19:21:48 <ArtForz> it uses both of the SSE units of 1 core
2226 2011-04-16 19:21:50 <JFK911> did anyone compile a cpuminer with intel's compiler
2227 2011-04-16 19:21:55 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: er?
2228 2011-04-16 19:21:55 <eps2> bitcoins on hacker news again, i am starting to wonder if this might be too much exposure...
2229 2011-04-16 19:22:05 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: but intel cpus dont have multiple sse units per core
2230 2011-04-16 19:22:09 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2231 2011-04-16 19:22:10 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.095,"low":0.9503,"vol":25607,"buy":1.0251,"sell":1.06,"last":1.03}}
2232 2011-04-16 19:22:13 <ArtForz> sse has been superscalar for ages
2233 2011-04-16 19:22:15 <sacarlson> how can I make the first creation of the new genesisblock already have an account ballance?
2234 2011-04-16 19:22:16 <ArtForz> err, yes, they do
2235 2011-04-16 19:22:24 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: ye gods, no wonder Intel sucks.
2236 2011-04-16 19:22:40 <luke-jr> sacarlson: you can't.
2237 2011-04-16 19:22:45 <Diablo-D3> either way, you dont get 2x performance. You can just use performance better _if_ you actually have a program that uses it.
2238 2011-04-16 19:22:48 retinal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2239 2011-04-16 19:22:55 <JFK911> i still like the 2 thread core
2240 2011-04-16 19:22:55 <ArtForz> old i7 has 3 sse ALUs per core
2241 2011-04-16 19:23:03 <Diablo-D3> mining "can use it"
2242 2011-04-16 19:23:04 <sacarlson> luke-jr: no such thing as can't but just more difficult
2243 2011-04-16 19:23:09 jgarzik has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2244 2011-04-16 19:23:10 <Diablo-D3> but you're not going to see magic increase here
2245 2011-04-16 19:23:13 <Diablo-D3> its as optimized as it gets
2246 2011-04-16 19:23:19 <ArtForz> new i7 has 2, but they reduced clocks/op for quite a few expensive ops
2247 2011-04-16 19:23:28 <Diablo-D3> sacarlson: why would you create a new genesis block?
2248 2011-04-16 19:23:31 <JFK911> new i7 is bitchin fast
2249 2011-04-16 19:23:41 <ArtForz> and they increased the internal bus widths
2250 2011-04-16 19:23:41 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: yeah, but per dollar and per watt? fuck it.
2251 2011-04-16 19:23:47 <ArtForz> well, somewhat
2252 2011-04-16 19:23:49 <Diablo-D3> and phenom III on am3+ is around the corner
2253 2011-04-16 19:24:04 <JFK911> well, the non zion chips are *cheap* $250 for 2600k
2254 2011-04-16 19:24:10 <Diablo-D3> xeon
2255 2011-04-16 19:24:12 <JFK911> probably less now
2256 2011-04-16 19:24:13 <JFK911> zion
2257 2011-04-16 19:24:19 <Diablo-D3> this isnt the matrix, neo.
2258 2011-04-16 19:24:22 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: why did you create the first one? to learn about it to find out if it can be used as a trading mechinism
2259 2011-04-16 19:24:34 <Diablo-D3> sacarlson: uh, I didnt create it.
2260 2011-04-16 19:24:40 <JFK911> wish there was a hack to enable ecc in the i7
2261 2011-04-16 19:24:40 <netxshare> did via padlock help at all?
2262 2011-04-16 19:24:52 <netxshare> just wondering how it compared to a cpu
2263 2011-04-16 19:25:00 <Diablo-D3> netxshare: no, you get like 5 mhash/sec or some shit.... which actually isnt bad when you realize how low wattage it is
2264 2011-04-16 19:25:11 <ArtForz> cheap?
2265 2011-04-16 19:25:21 <ArtForz> thats not much less than a 8-copre opteron ...
2266 2011-04-16 19:25:53 <Diablo-D3> yeah, "extreme" series cpus from Intel have no competitor... because AMD just tells you that if you need that much performance, just buy a workstation board and a server chip.
2267 2011-04-16 19:26:09 <JFK911> extremely gay is more like it
2268 2011-04-16 19:26:14 <ArtForz> no, $260
2269 2011-04-16 19:26:15 <JFK911> idk why anyone would pay that
2270 2011-04-16 19:26:23 <Diablo-D3> why pay $1000 for a cpu when you can just buy an Opteron.
2271 2011-04-16 19:26:27 <ArtForz> thats about normal price for a 6128
2272 2011-04-16 19:26:32 <Diablo-D3> the thing is
2273 2011-04-16 19:26:42 <Diablo-D3> people like us dont really have a use for CPUs anymore
2274 2011-04-16 19:27:08 prax has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2275 2011-04-16 19:27:15 <netxshare> they are only there for benchmarking and people who have to have the best
2276 2011-04-16 19:27:40 <Diablo-D3> yeah, its dicksize shit
2277 2011-04-16 19:27:52 <netxshare> an i5 would run everything just fine
2278 2011-04-16 19:28:00 <Diablo-D3> no conventional cpu is going to be beating a gpu. period.
2279 2011-04-16 19:28:16 <ArtForz> yeah, even a "low-end" cpu is fine nowadays, unless you *really* need it
2280 2011-04-16 19:28:19 <JFK911> i5 should have hyperthreading
2281 2011-04-16 19:28:20 <netxshare> nothing needs anymore cpu power currently
2282 2011-04-16 19:28:30 <Diablo-D3> even gaming pretty much is light on cpu usage
2283 2011-04-16 19:28:33 <ArtForz> sure does
2284 2011-04-16 19:28:35 <netxshare> yep
2285 2011-04-16 19:28:50 <ArtForz> ever ran a large spice sim?
2286 2011-04-16 19:29:02 glass has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2287 2011-04-16 19:29:06 <Diablo-D3> my next cpu is probably going to be whatever AMD's slowest quad core is
2288 2011-04-16 19:29:07 <phantomcircuit> so
2289 2011-04-16 19:29:09 <phantomcircuit> i was thinking
2290 2011-04-16 19:29:14 <genjix> phantomcircuit: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5938
2291 2011-04-16 19:29:19 <netxshare> this was my frist intel system
2292 2011-04-16 19:29:24 <netxshare> I have had AMD always
2293 2011-04-16 19:29:28 <Diablo-D3> maybe next one up if they start shipping dual memory controller in consumer socket
2294 2011-04-16 19:29:28 <phantomcircuit> instead of doing all that crazy shit with signing the transaction like that
2295 2011-04-16 19:29:36 <Diablo-D3> although I doubt they will
2296 2011-04-16 19:29:41 <JFK911> another thing that bugs me about amd is: via sucks and cant make anything work right
2297 2011-04-16 19:29:45 <phantomcircuit> why not just sign the outputhash+index
2298 2011-04-16 19:29:46 <netxshare> I could not beat i7 960 for $85 bucks tho
2299 2011-04-16 19:29:49 <JFK911> when i was buying amd, there weren't any good chipsets
2300 2011-04-16 19:29:53 <JFK911> netxshare: good score
2301 2011-04-16 19:29:58 <phantomcircuit> that would significantly simplify the CHECKSIG code
2302 2011-04-16 19:30:05 <JFK911> 960 is a pretty bitchin 8 thread chip
2303 2011-04-16 19:30:08 <Diablo-D3> although I heard rumors amd is going to ship quad channel ddr4 controllers <3
2304 2011-04-16 19:30:13 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: I think the 4-channel opterons were kind of an an accident
2305 2011-04-16 19:30:20 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no
2306 2011-04-16 19:30:23 <Diablo-D3> they did it intentionally
2307 2011-04-16 19:30:31 <phantomcircuit> anybody?
2308 2011-04-16 19:30:34 <ArtForz> thats what you get when you put 2 4-core or 6-core dies on one chip
2309 2011-04-16 19:30:37 <Diablo-D3> two 6 core native modules in a package
2310 2011-04-16 19:30:41 <Diablo-D3> yeah exactly
2311 2011-04-16 19:30:53 <netxshare> I can't wait to see when AMD put's their gpu in the cpu die
2312 2011-04-16 19:30:57 <Diablo-D3> they've done multi module packages before and not do that
2313 2011-04-16 19:30:59 <ArtForz> iirc each has a 2-channel mem controller, and a massive HTX link between
2314 2011-04-16 19:30:59 <Diablo-D3> but they realized
2315 2011-04-16 19:31:02 <Diablo-D3> its 12 cores
2316 2011-04-16 19:31:06 <Diablo-D3> you need the bandwidth
2317 2011-04-16 19:31:07 <JFK911> netxshare: the heatsink will cost more than the chip
2318 2011-04-16 19:31:18 prax has joined
2319 2011-04-16 19:31:28 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, the chips are designed like how you'd design two seperate sockets
2320 2011-04-16 19:31:32 <netxshare> lol I saw that 8 pcie mobo on the forums
2321 2011-04-16 19:31:34 <ArtForz> yeah, it's also a lot cheaper if you can use the same dies for PhenomII, C32 and G34 opterons ;)
2322 2011-04-16 19:31:39 <Diablo-D3> yup
2323 2011-04-16 19:31:48 <Diablo-D3> all the 6 core chips are using the same modules
2324 2011-04-16 19:31:58 <ArtForz> yep
2325 2011-04-16 19:32:18 <Diablo-D3> dual memory controllers is going to be a standard feature on giant chips from now on
2326 2011-04-16 19:32:22 <Diablo-D3> it just works so damned well
2327 2011-04-16 19:32:36 <ArtForz> iirc one diff is the HTX link on the dual-die opterons is clocked a lot higher than a normal off-chip link
2328 2011-04-16 19:33:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well, only because _they can_
2329 2011-04-16 19:33:10 <netxshare> I am shocked I don't see more sites like hardocp and other overclocking sites use bitcoin
2330 2011-04-16 19:33:10 <ArtForz> yeah
2331 2011-04-16 19:33:13 <Diablo-D3> since it's length is measured in multiples of luke-jr's penis
2332 2011-04-16 19:33:15 <Diablo-D3> its not hard
2333 2011-04-16 19:33:19 <netxshare> they do folding
2334 2011-04-16 19:33:38 <ArtForz> a lot easier to push a link when you can do decent physical chraceterization (and it's a few mm on substrate...)
2335 2011-04-16 19:34:37 <ArtForz> now if they only werent that dog-slow single threaded
2336 2011-04-16 19:34:55 <Diablo-D3> they really arent.
2337 2011-04-16 19:35:24 <netxshare> I wonder if anyone would buy an oki 900 still
2338 2011-04-16 19:35:30 <ArtForz> I have one here, they are
2339 2011-04-16 19:36:20 <genjix> new pull request: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?board=6.0
2340 2011-04-16 19:36:22 <phantomcircuit> lol
2341 2011-04-16 19:36:24 <ArtForz> unless you need the massive mem size and BW
2342 2011-04-16 19:36:25 <phantomcircuit> stupid dell
2343 2011-04-16 19:36:25 <genjix> would appreciate comments.
2344 2011-04-16 19:36:36 <phantomcircuit> i have a system that will run DDR@266 but not @ 333
2345 2011-04-16 19:36:39 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
2346 2011-04-16 19:36:41 <genjix> i added a way to send amounts to names like:
2347 2011-04-16 19:36:44 <genjix> genjix@foo.org
2348 2011-04-16 19:36:53 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no I mean, its not like intel gets like 9000x faster single thread apps per watt
2349 2011-04-16 19:37:17 <ArtForz> nope
2350 2011-04-16 19:37:34 <Diablo-D3> even if its 15%, who gives a shit
2351 2011-04-16 19:37:38 <sacarlson> genjix: is that secure? so you just need a dns to send it?
2352 2011-04-16 19:37:43 <ArtForz> errr... I do
2353 2011-04-16 19:37:46 <Diablo-D3> you're paying out the dong for that extra 15%
2354 2011-04-16 19:37:54 <ArtForz> yep
2355 2011-04-16 19:37:59 <Diablo-D3> I can just go buy _a bigger AMD chip_ and recoup that 15%.
2356 2011-04-16 19:38:11 <ArtForz> except you kinda... can't
2357 2011-04-16 19:38:13 <sacarlson> genjix: or is it already in a database that has a known address I guess
2358 2011-04-16 19:38:18 <Diablo-D3> and when I cant? I can _just buy more cores_
2359 2011-04-16 19:38:33 <ArtForz> yeah, that *really* helps for a single-threaded spice sim
2360 2011-04-16 19:38:48 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well at that point you just have to shrug your shoulders and accept the fail.
2361 2011-04-16 19:38:58 <ArtForz> yep
2362 2011-04-16 19:39:01 <Diablo-D3> single threaded apps have no place in the world anymore
2363 2011-04-16 19:39:14 <ArtForz> yeah
2364 2011-04-16 19:39:21 <Diablo-D3> like my delicious 128000 thread miner
2365 2011-04-16 19:39:24 <Diablo-D3> mwhahahaha
2366 2011-04-16 19:39:37 <ArtForz> but so far theres no decent multithreaded spice solver
2367 2011-04-16 19:40:38 <phantomcircuit> spice solver?
2368 2011-04-16 19:40:45 <ArtForz> yeah
2369 2011-04-16 19:40:58 <Diablo-D3> yeah, he needs to figure out where it flows.
2370 2011-04-16 19:41:09 * Diablo-D3 is not the first to make that joke, nor will he be the last.
2371 2011-04-16 19:41:15 <Diablo-D3> (and in context, its mildly funny)
2372 2011-04-16 19:41:39 <ArtForz> yep
2373 2011-04-16 19:41:42 <Diablo-D3> but hey, it could be worse
2374 2011-04-16 19:41:47 <Diablo-D3> he could be learning fortran
2375 2011-04-16 19:42:36 B0g4r7 has joined
2376 2011-04-16 19:42:48 <ArtForz> well, spice sure beats building a prototype to notice you fucked up your loop stability calc
2377 2011-04-16 19:43:30 <Diablo-D3> yes, and fortran sure beats haskell. and yes, they make a massively parallel variant of fortran.
2378 2011-04-16 19:43:45 <midnightmagic> fortran beats haskell?
2379 2011-04-16 19:43:56 <midnightmagic> have you ever even written anything in either?
2380 2011-04-16 19:43:57 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: in being punchlines of jokes? yes.
2381 2011-04-16 19:44:03 <midnightmagic> oh
2382 2011-04-16 19:44:08 * midnightmagic should read more than one line.
2383 2011-04-16 19:44:25 <Diablo-D3> and for the record, I have, and I cant stand either
2384 2011-04-16 19:44:37 <midnightmagic> you've written something in haskell outside the classroom?
2385 2011-04-16 19:45:15 <Diablo-D3> fortran makes me wonder why anyone would design syntax that bad, haskell makes me wonder why anyone would design syntax that bad and not be able to summon dark gods while they're at it
2386 2011-04-16 19:45:24 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: er, haskell? in classrooms?
2387 2011-04-16 19:45:28 <Diablo-D3> you surely jest
2388 2011-04-16 19:47:17 <midnightmagic> haskell is used in a pile of classrooms as a way to teach another style. it's excellent in that within its confines you can theoretically build a perfect program.
2389 2011-04-16 19:47:26 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2390 2011-04-16 19:47:34 phantomcircuit has joined
2391 2011-04-16 19:48:02 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: bullshit, haskell is just trying to reinvent perl with shittier syntax
2392 2011-04-16 19:48:06 <Diablo-D3> er
2393 2011-04-16 19:48:08 <Diablo-D3> lisp.
2394 2011-04-16 19:48:16 <Diablo-D3> clearly Im running low on coffee
2395 2011-04-16 19:48:33 <midnightmagic> haskell syntax is shittier than lisp?
2396 2011-04-16 19:48:40 <Diablo-D3> yes.
2397 2011-04-16 19:49:06 <midnightmagic> just because your woman has something that looks like two parentheses put together doesn't mean lisp is awesome.
2398 2011-04-16 19:49:09 <Diablo-D3> I can look at a lisp program and generally deduce what it does without having to spend a few hours in a lisp book
2399 2011-04-16 19:49:26 <Diablo-D3> haskell? eh, not so much
2400 2011-04-16 19:49:26 <midnightmagic> you're putting your inability to understand haskell on haskell's design?
2401 2011-04-16 19:49:42 <Diablo-D3> seeing as I know many languages, and have been programming for over a decade? yes
2402 2011-04-16 19:49:48 * midnightmagic prods Diablo-D3.
2403 2011-04-16 19:49:52 <Diablo-D3> I can honestly say Im qualified to say haskell has shitty syntax
2404 2011-04-16 19:50:06 <midnightmagic> how does that magically equate to the expectation that you should be able to comprehend haskell?
2405 2011-04-16 19:50:27 <Diablo-D3> because once you learn how to program, you can do it in any language with little effort.
2406 2011-04-16 19:50:33 <Diablo-D3> haskell shouldnt endevour to buck that trend
2407 2011-04-16 19:51:06 <midnightmagic> you don't know haskell well enough to comprehend it, haven't been programming in it for your "decade" of experience, and therefore haskell is shitty?
2408 2011-04-16 19:51:20 <midnightmagic> the other possibility isn't something you care to admit?
2409 2011-04-16 19:51:24 <Diablo-D3> the same applies to lisp, yet I can reasonably read it.
2410 2011-04-16 19:51:37 <Diablo-D3> the same also applies to python, yet I can reasonably read it.
2411 2011-04-16 19:52:45 <midnightmagic> i grok haskell more easily and quickly than i've grokked a new language in a long time. perhaps that just means we're wired differently?
2412 2011-04-16 19:53:21 <Diablo-D3> possibly.
2413 2011-04-16 19:53:30 <Diablo-D3> I can read C and even some pretty horrific perl
2414 2011-04-16 19:53:47 <mtrlt> for me, python is a pain in the ass but c++ comes naturally :o
2415 2011-04-16 19:54:48 <midnightmagic> c++ is the necessarily evil, the full scope of which i'm beginning to think no one human can fully fathom. :(
2416 2011-04-16 19:54:58 <midnightmagic> not even bjarne
2417 2011-04-16 19:55:15 <Diablo-D3> c++ is the most horrible thing ever
2418 2011-04-16 19:55:25 <mtrlt> midnightmagic: yes, especially with c++11 or whatever it's called
2419 2011-04-16 19:55:27 <Diablo-D3> and yeah, it takes you a little while to realize exactly how bad it is
2420 2011-04-16 19:55:44 <mtrlt> well, so far 6 or 7 years and i've not yet realized it ;-)
2421 2011-04-16 19:55:47 <Diablo-D3> btw, c++ 1x isnt so bad
2422 2011-04-16 19:56:01 <mtrlt> i agree that it's a marked improvement
2423 2011-04-16 19:56:03 <Diablo-D3> in one way, its basically single handedly destroying boost
2424 2011-04-16 19:56:08 taco_the_paco has joined
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2427 2011-04-16 19:56:12 <Diablo-D3> which makes them some sort of dark hero
2428 2011-04-16 19:56:17 <topi`_> Diablo-D3: I could make a fair guess that a person who is proficient with Erlang, is able to understand Haskell code.
2429 2011-04-16 19:56:32 <topi`_> so your claim that Haskell's syntax is the key to its unusability is not correct.
2430 2011-04-16 19:56:37 <Diablo-D3> topi`_: this is true, but if you're proficient with Erlang, you should also be proficient in Lisp
2431 2011-04-16 19:57:11 <topi`_> hehe :)
2432 2011-04-16 19:57:21 <topi`_> those two languages are not really related.
2433 2011-04-16 19:57:22 taco_the_paco has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2434 2011-04-16 19:57:35 <Diablo-D3> topi`_: its the functional programming thought model
2435 2011-04-16 19:57:54 <Diablo-D3> some people get it, some dont
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2439 2011-04-16 19:58:04 <topi`_> lisp is not really a functional language. but yes, they do share features, like operator precedence etc
2440 2011-04-16 19:58:34 <Diablo-D3> I need to seriously look at Erlang at some point
2441 2011-04-16 19:58:36 <topi`_> I think haskell's biggest advantage is the type system
2442 2011-04-16 19:58:40 <Diablo-D3> I suspect Im going to hate it as much as haskell.
2443 2011-04-16 19:58:52 <topi`_> well, Erlang has different limitations than Haskell.
2444 2011-04-16 19:59:18 <topi`_> and Erlang is used a lot in many practical problems.
2445 2011-04-16 19:59:57 <topi`_> $ wc sha1.erl 99 477 3171 sha1.erl
2446 2011-04-16 20:00:09 <topi`_> even sha1 is easy to implement in erlang, 99 lines of code:)
2447 2011-04-16 20:00:18 <topi`_> with comments, etc.
2448 2011-04-16 20:00:36 <Diablo-D3> thats... not really helping.
2449 2011-04-16 20:02:10 <gasteve> I want a language that fully supports actor based concurrency, capability based security, full closures, that deals with the version skew problem in a sane manner, allows for zero installation, where code distribution is as simple as publishing a hash on a peer to peer network
2450 2011-04-16 20:02:48 <midnightmagic> i would love ocaml more, but it's too bad it was crippled so early (even if temporarily) with a terrible licence model. i'm glad they fixed that.
2451 2011-04-16 20:03:04 <topi`_> gasteve: that's a good list, erlang works well for most of those items, except perhaps zero installation :D
2452 2011-04-16 20:03:29 <topi`_> although I think you can compile completely standalone binaries with the erlang compiler
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2458 2011-04-16 20:09:53 <gasteve> I actually think all of these things are imminently doable...it's a whole new OS though (not just a language)
2459 2011-04-16 20:10:16 <gasteve> (doable, but a lot of work)
2460 2011-04-16 20:10:56 <gasteve> Newspeak (http://bracha.org/Site/Newspeak.html) is pretty close
2461 2011-04-16 20:11:09 <gasteve> but not even remotely practical at this stage
2462 2011-04-16 20:11:55 <gasteve> actually, this is a proper link: http://newspeaklanguage.org/
2463 2011-04-16 20:15:21 Karzy has joined
2464 2011-04-16 20:15:29 <gasteve> (I like erlang too btw...but mostly for its concurrency model rather than the functional programming stuff...you can accomplish what people accomplish in functional language (which mostly amounts the use if idempotent functions) in almost any language that supports closures)
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2466 2011-04-16 20:17:59 <Karzy> Hey guys, I have an amazing idea that I truly believe could really get bitcoin off the ground, if you have time to code in the next couple of weeks and are willing to take a chance message me here or e-mail me at chuck@chucklane.net
2467 2011-04-16 20:18:19 <[Tycho]> What's your idea ?
2468 2011-04-16 20:19:12 <Karzy> I'm happy to tell people about it one on one
2469 2011-04-16 20:19:16 <Karzy> no NDA or anything
2470 2011-04-16 20:19:22 <Karzy> I just want credit for it
2471 2011-04-16 20:19:40 <B0g4r7> I have an idea for mtgox, but I can't ever seem to catch mt when he's online and not afk.
2472 2011-04-16 20:20:10 <Karzy> I mean I guess whatever I'll just spit it out
2473 2011-04-16 20:20:12 <Karzy> because it NEEDS to happen
2474 2011-04-16 20:20:19 <Karzy> has everyone been watching the news?
2475 2011-04-16 20:20:26 <B0g4r7> no, heh.
2476 2011-04-16 20:20:45 <Karzy> let it be known that I came up with this idea Chuck Lane
2477 2011-04-16 20:21:32 <sacarlson> Karzy: well this site is recorded so if the idea didn't exist before then there will be evidence with the time stamp
2478 2011-04-16 20:22:32 <Karzy> Okay so yesterday the 3 largest poker sites in America were raided, Pokerstars, Full tilt poker, and Absolute and many others are close behind. This put 55,000 people out of work instantly.. 55,000 DESPARATE people who are willing to take a chance on some other way they can play poker.. so we modify the bitcoin interface to also have a poker engine on top of it that will allow people to gamble with bitcoins.. There are no servers to shut down because it's
2479 2011-04-16 20:23:08 <Karzy> players because there is no rake, its attracted to the develoeprs because bitcoin is cheap right now and there is finite supply so as more and more people go to play poker the price goes up.. it's great because it can't be seized by ANY goverment for being illegal
2480 2011-04-16 20:23:18 <B0g4r7> Wouldn't the existing bitcoin API acommodate that sort of use without modification?
2481 2011-04-16 20:23:25 <sacarlson> Karzy: I'm working on a pokerth interface for bitcoin
2482 2011-04-16 20:23:29 <Karzy> if we can get even a fraction of the 55,000 people to play
2483 2011-04-16 20:23:32 <Karzy> I saw one already
2484 2011-04-16 20:23:46 <Karzy> so it's just about promoting it and getting people ready to wager and if you own bitcoin now you'll make a fortune
2485 2011-04-16 20:24:02 <B0g4r7> What kind of poker-specific protocol extensions do you see being needed?
2486 2011-04-16 20:24:10 <Karzy> you'd have to make some kind of conversion from bitcoin to chips.. but the fact that theres no centralized server and no rake means it's almost impossible to bust
2487 2011-04-16 20:24:33 <Karzy> I was thinking you could take the p2p code out of the mining interface and put a poker engine on top of it
2488 2011-04-16 20:24:43 <Karzy> something like https://github.com/hippich/Bitcoin-Poker-Room
2489 2011-04-16 20:24:56 <Karzy> obviously there is a lot of work to be done.. but the potential implications to bitcoin are massive
2490 2011-04-16 20:25:10 <Blitzboom> massively massive
2491 2011-04-16 20:25:15 <sacarlson> Karzy: I've been talking about that a long time and there is already a poker site online for texas holdem
2492 2011-04-16 20:25:16 <Karzy> 55,000 people at first throwing a few hundred and soon thousands into bitconi
2493 2011-04-16 20:25:23 <Karzy> online poker is a $3 billion dollar industry
2494 2011-04-16 20:25:31 <BurtyB> err yeah.. or they could open up again in another country where it's not illegal and just take the money again as pokerstars have...
2495 2011-04-16 20:25:36 <Karzy> sacarlson: if it already exists all the better.. but we have to market it
2496 2011-04-16 20:25:43 <Karzy> BurtyB: how do you "take" bitcoin
2497 2011-04-16 20:25:50 <Karzy> and who do you target
2498 2011-04-16 20:26:02 <BurtyB> existing poker sites want money :)
2499 2011-04-16 20:26:07 <sacarlson> Karzy: I tried it and wasn't as happy with it as much as pokerth that's what I'm pushing
2500 2011-04-16 20:26:09 <Karzy> if there's 70,000 people playing they're going to just take over bitcoin completely? the whole point is that it can't be taken over
2501 2011-04-16 20:26:20 <Karzy> pokerth?
2502 2011-04-16 20:26:48 <sacarlson> Karzy: pokerth is opensource network poker game that runs on many platform that I want to modify to interface to bitcoin
2503 2011-04-16 20:27:08 <Karzy> sacarlson: are you interested in teaming up
2504 2011-04-16 20:27:24 <Karzy> I think this development of shutting down full tilt and pokerstars could really bring people to something like that
2505 2011-04-16 20:27:33 <sacarlson> Karzy: sure I'm already working on it so if you want to help dive right in
2506 2011-04-16 20:27:39 <Blitzboom> do_it!
2507 2011-04-16 20:27:50 <Karzy> which is good for EVERYONE working on the project because the more people who use bitcoin the quicker the exchange rate increases
2508 2011-04-16 20:28:35 <sacarlson> Karzy: my focus to start was the smalist poker site in the world with .02 btc buys you 3000 chips, I've already played with someone on the otc
2509 2011-04-16 20:29:08 <Karzy> sacarlson: awesome.. would you mind have a discussion about this via skype or some other form of IM
2510 2011-04-16 20:29:41 <Karzy> Sami345: I've got some ties to the poker community as I imagine you do too, people on twoplustwo are DYING for a place to play right now
2511 2011-04-16 20:29:41 <sacarlson> Karzy: I already have some code to setup a currency exchange and that was going to also be the bank for the poker if needed
2512 2011-04-16 20:29:53 <Karzy> the idea that they could go to the faucet and get a minimum buy-in for free will get people started
2513 2011-04-16 20:29:57 <Karzy> and it should baloon from there
2514 2011-04-16 20:30:15 <Karzy> yeah although you'd want to be careful about that because then you do risk getting in trouble
2515 2011-04-16 20:30:21 <Karzy> I wouldn't want to take any cash in
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2518 2011-04-16 20:32:30 <Karzy> okay so it seems like the project already exists all that's needed is a lot of publicity to promote it
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2522 2011-04-16 20:37:51 <luke-jr> Karzy: like the TIME article today?
2523 2011-04-16 20:38:00 soultcer_ has joined
2524 2011-04-16 20:38:14 <Karzy> you can see my qualifications on my website and I'll send you my CV if you want
2525 2011-04-16 20:40:10 <luke-jr> Karzy: my brother is one of the big poker players whose money is frozen, fwiw
2526 2011-04-16 20:40:32 <luke-jr> I think he had some tutorials or something on one of the sites even
2527 2011-04-16 20:40:47 <Karzy> Sami345: my flood filter kicked in
2528 2011-04-16 20:40:53 <Karzy> sacarlson: my flood filter kicked in
2529 2011-04-16 20:40:54 <Sami345> ...
2530 2011-04-16 20:40:59 <Sami345> stop highlight me!
2531 2011-04-16 20:41:12 <Karzy> Sami345: calm down, my bad
2532 2011-04-16 20:42:16 <luke-jr> Sami345: hey
2533 2011-04-16 20:42:27 <topi`_> is there a URL for the TIME article?
2534 2011-04-16 20:42:30 <Sami345> luke-jr, hi
2535 2011-04-16 20:42:38 <luke-jr> topi`_: there is!
2536 2011-04-16 20:42:46 Karzy has quit (Quit: Karzy has no reason)
2537 2011-04-16 20:42:49 <luke-jr> topi`_: I bet Google will even tell you if you ask it!
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2541 2011-04-16 20:43:46 <topi`_> Karzy: one point, if 70000 poker players join the bitcoin network, they still can't overtake it UNLESS everyone of them has a high end radeon and starts to mine :)
2542 2011-04-16 20:44:31 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2544 2011-04-16 20:45:35 <lulzplzkthx> are the price of bitcoins continuing to rise?
2545 2011-04-16 20:46:08 <luke-jr> duh
2546 2011-04-16 20:46:15 <luke-jr> it's at 1.06 now
2547 2011-04-16 20:46:23 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: #bitcoin-watch
2548 2011-04-16 20:46:27 <lulzplzkthx> damn. so i should probalby invest usd, haha
2549 2011-04-16 20:48:56 <topi`_> luke-jr: google didn't find any. maybe it doesn't care about the capital letters in TIME.
2550 2011-04-16 20:49:46 <BlueMatt> http://techland.time.com/2011/04/16/online-cash-bitcoin-could-challenge-governments/
2551 2011-04-16 20:52:56 <krytzz> wow
2552 2011-04-16 20:54:15 <BurtyB> search finds it for me
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2554 2011-04-16 20:54:56 <BlueMatt> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Atime.com+bitcoin
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2568 2011-04-16 21:44:54 <Clark> ;;bc,stat
2569 2011-04-16 21:44:55 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
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2571 2011-04-16 21:45:05 <Clark> ;;bc, stat
2572 2011-04-16 21:45:05 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
2573 2011-04-16 21:45:55 <Clark> ;;bc,stats
2574 2011-04-16 21:45:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 118702 | Current Difficulty: 82347.22294654 | Next Difficulty At Block: 118943 | Next Difficulty In: 241 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 11 hours, 8 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 91745.92015038
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2579 2011-04-16 21:54:25 <eps2> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/04/major-online-poker-sites-seized-charged-with-money-laundering.ars
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2582 2011-04-16 21:59:51 <cosurgi> tcatm: still no sorting by columns? :)
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2587 2011-04-16 22:07:45 <cosurgi> hmm... again a botned joind us?
2588 2011-04-16 22:07:49 <cosurgi> *botnet
2589 2011-04-16 22:08:23 <BlueMatt> no way to know, maybe just added publicity?
2590 2011-04-16 22:08:31 <BlueMatt> we have been getting a lot of that recently
2591 2011-04-16 22:08:59 <cosurgi> 12 blocks in past 30 minutes
2592 2011-04-16 22:09:35 <BlueMatt> doesnt really mean anything alone
2593 2011-04-16 22:09:51 <Blitzboom> ?
2594 2011-04-16 22:10:02 <BlueMatt> its probability crap like that happens
2595 2011-04-16 22:10:16 <BlueMatt> if it keeps going, then we know we have a significant increase in hashing power
2596 2011-04-16 22:10:50 <cosurgi> yep. time to sleep, will check in the monrinig
2597 2011-04-16 22:10:52 <BlueMatt> genjix: reason blackmarket.py register fails with a large server error?
2598 2011-04-16 22:12:39 <lulzplzkthx> i was thinking about botnets + bitcoin earlier
2599 2011-04-16 22:12:42 hi has joined
2600 2011-04-16 22:12:47 <lulzplzkthx> seems like a pretty good use for a botnet...
2601 2011-04-16 22:12:52 <lulzplzkthx> and might lead to bitcoin getting bad publicity
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2607 2011-04-16 22:15:38 <BlueMatt> only if you have a botnet with a ton of ati gpus on it
2608 2011-04-16 22:16:08 <BlueMatt> plus who wants to max out their entire botnet's cpu usage, people would notice and get some virus-removal tool and youd lose half your botnet
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2610 2011-04-16 22:17:57 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: but thats the thing
2611 2011-04-16 22:18:02 <Diablo-D3> its hard to beat near zero cpu usage
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2613 2011-04-16 22:19:28 <BlueMatt> well I mean gpu clients, but in that case people might notice when their fps hits 1 from the normal 60
2614 2011-04-16 22:19:35 <BlueMatt> s/gpu/cpu/
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2631 2011-04-16 23:01:15 <Blitzboom> someone check this: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-benefits-of-using-Bitcoin
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2634 2011-04-16 23:08:41 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2635 2011-04-16 23:09:16 <gasteve> who's asking?
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2646 2011-04-16 23:22:51 <witten> does anyone know what ports/protocols I have to allow through my client's firewall to make UPnP work?
2647 2011-04-16 23:24:12 <tcatm> tcp 8333
2648 2011-04-16 23:24:27 <witten> thanks
2649 2011-04-16 23:25:41 <witten> wait, 8333 is bitcoin, not upnp?
2650 2011-04-16 23:28:28 <grbgout> I thought the whole point of UPnP was to avoid having to open ports?
2651 2011-04-16 23:28:32 <grbgout> +on routers
2652 2011-04-16 23:28:59 <witten> I'm talking about a firewall on the client itself
2653 2011-04-16 23:29:19 <witten> if the firewall is up, miniupnpc can't reach the router.. if I take down the firewall, it can
2654 2011-04-16 23:29:33 <witten> so I'd like to add rules to the local client firewall to allow upnp to work
2655 2011-04-16 23:29:50 <luke-jr> why such a strict firewall? XD
2656 2011-04-16 23:30:15 <witten> for security :)
2657 2011-04-16 23:30:36 CodePHP has joined
2658 2011-04-16 23:30:41 <witten> it's actually not so strict.. it only filters incoming packets
2659 2011-04-16 23:31:12 <gasteve> Blitzboom...that website seems to want an account to post...this was my answer if you want to use it: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Mw1eQiZC
2660 2011-04-16 23:31:25 <Blitzboom> i donât have an account :(
2661 2011-04-16 23:31:49 <Blitzboom> but thanks, someone else might use that
2662 2011-04-16 23:32:17 <tcatm> witten: try tcp 5000 and 445
2663 2011-04-16 23:32:26 <witten> tcatm: thanks
2664 2011-04-16 23:33:14 <krytzz> a firewall on the local machine is pretty worthless
2665 2011-04-16 23:33:33 <tcatm> witten: does it work?
2666 2011-04-16 23:33:54 <witten> checking..
2667 2011-04-16 23:34:19 <witten> nope
2668 2011-04-16 23:34:21 <gasteve> Blitzboom: I created some bogus, anon account and posted it
2669 2011-04-16 23:34:45 <CodePHP> Im new to bitcoin-dev, any chance at someone pointing me to info about how to create a Bitcoin Address on the fly? (I code php if that helps)
2670 2011-04-16 23:34:48 <witten> tcatm: tcp or udp?
2671 2011-04-16 23:34:49 eao has joined
2672 2011-04-16 23:35:25 <witten> hm, maybe it's port 1900 and 2869
2673 2011-04-16 23:35:36 <witten> udp 1900 and tcp 2869
2674 2011-04-16 23:35:42 <luke-jr> krytzz: um, no
2675 2011-04-16 23:35:42 <krytzz> witten: just turn off your local firewall
2676 2011-04-16 23:35:48 <witten> krytzz: :(
2677 2011-04-16 23:36:02 <krytzz> luke-jr: then for what do you use it?
2678 2011-04-16 23:36:17 <luke-jr> krytzz: to micromanage connections
2679 2011-04-16 23:36:22 <luke-jr> or lock down users
2680 2011-04-16 23:36:54 <luke-jr> for example, I allow LAN IPs to use my printer
2681 2011-04-16 23:37:02 <luke-jr> while I drop any such traffic from outside
2682 2011-04-16 23:37:15 eternal1 has joined
2683 2011-04-16 23:37:24 <tcatm> CodePHP: use the RPC interface
2684 2011-04-16 23:37:38 <krytzz> wouldnt it be better to set that up in the printer?
2685 2011-04-16 23:37:46 <tcatm> CodePHP: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC)#PHP
2686 2011-04-16 23:37:52 <krytzz> to only allow a certain ip range
2687 2011-04-16 23:38:21 <luke-jr> krytzz: ⦠it's USB
2688 2011-04-16 23:38:43 <krytzz> luke-jr: well then the local cups
2689 2011-04-16 23:38:44 <CodePHP> tcatm: thanks, just what i was looking for
2690 2011-04-16 23:38:59 <luke-jr> krytzz: I don't think CUPS has that kind of micro-management
2691 2011-04-16 23:39:07 FAMULUS has quit (Quit: FAMULUS)
2692 2011-04-16 23:39:54 <krytzz> luke-jr: well if you mean ala "Allow from 192.168.0.*" thats possible
2693 2011-04-16 23:40:13 <luke-jr> true
2694 2011-04-16 23:40:28 <luke-jr> but this was back when I had two interfaces, one for LAN and the other for WAN
2695 2011-04-16 23:40:37 <luke-jr> and IIRC CUPS either broadcast on both, or neither
2696 2011-04-16 23:41:04 <krytzz> hm i think i never had cups with two interfaces
2697 2011-04-16 23:41:05 <luke-jr> and it's silly to expect every server to implement IP filters
2698 2011-04-16 23:41:53 <krytzz> hm depends
2699 2011-04-16 23:43:52 <Diablo-D3> you know
2700 2011-04-16 23:44:20 <Diablo-D3> how many people in here would spend bitcoins on, say, a tor'ed gold investing service?
2701 2011-04-16 23:44:29 u238 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
2702 2011-04-16 23:44:48 <tcatm> why invest in gold when you already have bitcoins?
2703 2011-04-16 23:44:50 <luke-jr> wtf does that mean?
2704 2011-04-16 23:45:00 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: shrug, it might be funny.
2705 2011-04-16 23:45:08 <luke-jr> the only reason to have a digital gold is defeated by bitcoin
2706 2011-04-16 23:45:19 <luke-jr> only point to gold is if you have it physically now
2707 2011-04-16 23:45:20 <JFK911> Buy JFK's wallet.dat insurance and double-spending insurance now
2708 2011-04-16 23:45:27 <krytzz> at least witten you cant expect to have a firewall securing your system in a magical way, get educated about the processes
2709 2011-04-16 23:45:32 blablaa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2710 2011-04-16 23:45:40 <tcatm> Diablo-D3: I'd invest in that investing service ;)
2711 2011-04-16 23:45:45 <krytzz> what does tor have to do with that?
2712 2011-04-16 23:45:45 <witten> krytzz: I know plenty about firewalls
2713 2011-04-16 23:46:02 <krytzz> witten: ok
2714 2011-04-16 23:46:02 <Diablo-D3> it'd have to be ran behind tor, and by someone none of us knows or has met
2715 2011-04-16 23:46:05 <witten> krytzz: but not knowing what port/protocol upnp uses means I can't set up the firewall rules to let it through
2716 2011-04-16 23:46:05 <luke-jr> buy luke-jr's Bitcoin economy collapse insurance. if the economy collapses, you get 1000 BTC
2717 2011-04-16 23:46:06 <luke-jr> <.<
2718 2011-04-16 23:46:25 <Diablo-D3> you could buy shares in a giant pool of money
2719 2011-04-16 23:46:35 <Diablo-D3> and it'd be priced by the people buying and selling into it
2720 2011-04-16 23:46:37 <tcatm> just set it up and tell no one you're running it
2721 2011-04-16 23:46:51 <krytzz> Diablo-D3: that implies that the person and service is anonymous and i wont invest BTC into some anonymous service probably
2722 2011-04-16 23:46:51 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: well, Im hoping someone steals my idea
2723 2011-04-16 23:47:10 <Diablo-D3> krytzz: well, not only would it be anonymous, other fellow users would be as well
2724 2011-04-16 23:47:20 <Diablo-D3> and the service would only know you by your bitcoin address
2725 2011-04-16 23:47:31 <krytzz> Diablo-D3: but the service could totally trick me
2726 2011-04-16 23:47:50 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2727 2011-04-16 23:47:51 <Diablo-D3> it could, sure
2728 2011-04-16 23:47:57 <Diablo-D3> but it also means you couldnt attack the service either
2729 2011-04-16 23:48:03 <Blitzboom> one idea: bitcoin could be extremely valuable to countries like china etc. and mafia organisations
2730 2011-04-16 23:48:12 <Blitzboom> they would build legitimate businesses that accept it
2731 2011-04-16 23:48:22 <Blitzboom> and therefor establish the currency for their own advantage
2732 2011-04-16 23:49:11 blablaa has joined
2733 2011-04-16 23:49:21 <Blitzboom> and they would choose bitcoin because it already has a community with known and trusted figures
2734 2011-04-16 23:49:32 <luke-jr> it does?
2735 2011-04-16 23:49:38 <Blitzboom> yes, gavin etc.
2736 2011-04-16 23:49:42 <krytzz> Diablo-D3: doesnt sound attractive tbh, good for the service it cant be attacked but bad for me if it tricks me
2737 2011-04-16 23:49:42 <luke-jr> I mean, jgarzik sure, but who else?
2738 2011-04-16 23:49:51 <luke-jr> What is Gavin famous for?
2739 2011-04-16 23:50:03 <Blitzboom> ⦠being bitcoin lead dev?
2740 2011-04-16 23:50:09 <luke-jr> besides that obv
2741 2011-04-16 23:50:30 <Blitzboom> dunno. but fact is that people think that we mean no bad
2742 2011-04-16 23:50:38 <luke-jr> what people?
2743 2011-04-16 23:50:42 <Blitzboom> the devs at least
2744 2011-04-16 23:50:44 <Blitzboom> lfm: press
2745 2011-04-16 23:50:49 <Blitzboom> err, luke-jr
2746 2011-04-16 23:51:04 <luke-jr> hmm
2747 2011-04-16 23:51:17 <luke-jr> I wonder who would sign on a petition that people not use Bitcoin for illegal activity?
2748 2011-04-16 23:51:40 <Blitzboom> just a thought i had for a possible implication if high rank people with real economic interest in it began to understood bitcoin
2749 2011-04-16 23:51:42 <krytzz> a petition would be worthless
2750 2011-04-16 23:51:54 <luke-jr> krytzz: no, it would be unenforcable
2751 2011-04-16 23:51:56 <luke-jr> but not worthless
2752 2011-04-16 23:51:57 <witten> "UPnP Port Mapping successful."
2753 2011-04-16 23:52:05 <krytzz> i mean money is used for bad things everyday
2754 2011-04-16 23:52:09 <witten> it was udp --sport 1900, in case anyone is curious
2755 2011-04-16 23:52:22 <[Noodles]> who's to decide what's illegal activity?
2756 2011-04-16 23:52:23 <Blitzboom> krytzz: yes, but better money is worse!
2757 2011-04-16 23:52:26 <krytzz> and bitcoin will also be if its used by more people, we can do nothing against it
2758 2011-04-16 23:52:29 <Blitzboom> (according to the government)
2759 2011-04-16 23:52:30 <luke-jr> [Noodles]: the governments duh
2760 2011-04-16 23:52:40 <luke-jr> that's what illegal means
2761 2011-04-16 23:52:57 <luke-jr> krytzz: the idea would be to make it clear that we don't want to support illegal activity
2762 2011-04-16 23:53:06 <luke-jr> even though we can't stop it
2763 2011-04-16 23:53:29 <krytzz> hm... i mean we all sign the petition and the bad guys will probably also sign it but do bad stuff nevertheless.. where is the point :p
2764 2011-04-16 23:54:03 <luke-jr> krytzz: well, if anyone ever gets sued for accompliceâ¦
2765 2011-04-16 23:54:18 <luke-jr> pretty strong evidence to have your lawyer present the petition with your sig, iMO
2766 2011-04-16 23:54:39 <luke-jr> obviously the criminal's sig on there is irrelevant since he *did* the crime
2767 2011-04-16 23:54:53 <krytzz> ah i get it
2768 2011-04-16 23:55:01 <krytzz> no idea, im a noob in law
2769 2011-04-16 23:55:15 <[Noodles]> maybe i want to support some activity that is called illegal by your government, why should i care?
2770 2011-04-16 23:55:16 <luke-jr> it could possibly also dissuade any accusations of Bitcoin being for illegal stuff
2771 2011-04-16 23:55:17 Dark_Ghost has joined
2772 2011-04-16 23:55:28 <luke-jr> [Noodles]: jurisdiction
2773 2011-04-16 23:55:51 <krytzz> that will totally happen
2774 2011-04-16 23:56:17 kisom_dev has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2775 2011-04-16 23:56:19 <luke-jr> eg, "Illegal activity is defined as something prohibited by the laws in the local jurisdiction, not necessarily the jurisdiction of the signer."
2776 2011-04-16 23:56:59 <luke-jr> krytzz: IMO, it'd be harder for people to accuse Bitcoin of being inherently "drug money" if all the main community members sign such a petition
2777 2011-04-16 23:57:17 <krytzz> atm in germany the conservative party wants to introduce internet censorship by referring to gambling law lol
2778 2011-04-16 23:57:31 <luke-jr> censorship is fine
2779 2011-04-16 23:58:01 <krytzz> i mean they will use gambling law against bitcoin also
2780 2011-04-16 23:58:31 <luke-jr> and we can argue against that claim (that Bitcoin is for illegal gambling) by openly OPPOSING such use
2781 2011-04-16 23:59:39 fil has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2782 2011-04-16 23:59:52 <krytzz> hm maybe