1 2011-04-23 00:00:26 <luke-jr> theymos: I'll take them for fairly low fees ;)
2 2011-04-23 00:00:35 <dfc> i wish the debug.log was not turned on in the debian package
3 2011-04-23 00:00:35 <mizerydearia> Anyone for contributions and improvements to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Firsts ?
4 2011-04-23 00:00:55 <jgarzik> non-standard transactions will still clog the currency block chain, forcing currency users to incur edge costs
5 2011-04-23 00:01:09 <jgarzik> better to use another block chain, and piggyback on PoW as described by satoshi
6 2011-04-23 00:01:30 <jgarzik> dfc: debug.log is default for all installs. yes, it is very verbose...
7 2011-04-23 00:01:43 <lulzplzkthx> dishwara is really starting to bug me on the forum. always pretending it's our fault with the "apparently telling the truth makes you bad person" etc.
8 2011-04-23 00:01:54 <theymos> Satoshi's scheme doesn't provide incentive to miners to solve "edge" blocks. Those systems will need to provide extra incentives, which doesn't always work.
9 2011-04-23 00:01:59 <Kiba> the value of bitcoin rose 16.53% in a single day!
10 2011-04-23 00:02:03 <mizerydearia> lulzplzkthx, if that's the truth that he bugs you, then you are bad person
11 2011-04-23 00:02:11 <BlueMatt> Kiba: god that needs to stop
12 2011-04-23 00:02:45 <jgarzik> theymos: you get namecoins etc.
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14 2011-04-23 00:02:56 <jgarzik> theymos: miners receive <stuff> from alternate chains
15 2011-04-23 00:03:02 <jgarzik> just like on mainnet
16 2011-04-23 00:03:06 <Zarutian> theymos: long time no see.
17 2011-04-23 00:03:16 <theymos> Hi.
18 2011-04-23 00:03:45 <Zarutian> I hope you remember this thing: http://zarutian.internet.is/bitcoin/x-btc-uri-scheme.txt
19 2011-04-23 00:04:11 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: it might be a bit late for an alternate scheme
20 2011-04-23 00:04:13 <theymos> jgarzik: Namecoin is broken because domains are limited. DNS maybe should not provide an incentive. Alternative chains couldn't support, for example, general file timestamping.
21 2011-04-23 00:04:40 <theymos> Zarutian: Yes. I put it on the wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/X-btc
22 2011-04-23 00:04:44 <Kiba> I am of the impression that it is only limited in the shortrun
23 2011-04-23 00:04:52 <lulzplzkthx> holy shit, 1.409?
24 2011-04-23 00:04:54 <LtBrenton> ugh...
25 2011-04-23 00:05:09 <lulzplzkthx> this is making it harder and harder for me to earn BTC. i still only have 0.23 lolol
26 2011-04-23 00:05:09 <LtBrenton> direct xfer from mtgox to BCM without bouncing via my wallet...
27 2011-04-23 00:05:18 <LtBrenton> it's disconcerting watching your BTC disappear into nowhere for hours on end
28 2011-04-23 00:05:19 <LtBrenton> @_@
29 2011-04-23 00:05:23 <Kiba> lulzplzkthx: just lower your offer
30 2011-04-23 00:05:31 <Zarutian> BlueMatt: alternate or complimentary? so long as the scheme names dont clash I am satisfied
31 2011-04-23 00:05:34 <Kiba> or start a website and convert your time to bitcoin via operationfabulous system
32 2011-04-23 00:05:40 <lulzplzkthx> Kiba: lol, i have no offer yet. i posted about coding for btc, that's not what i mean. :P
33 2011-04-23 00:05:50 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
34 2011-04-23 00:06:02 <Kiba> lulzplzkthx: I am willing to pay 5 BTC for an article...
35 2011-04-23 00:06:05 <Kiba> get it while it's hot
36 2011-04-23 00:06:27 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: why would we need 2? bitcoin: is already on its way to merge and there is no point adding a second one. Don't get me wrong it looks great, it just has no real advantage over bitcoin: and bitcoin: is already implemented
37 2011-04-23 00:06:31 <Zarutian> theymos: well, I deliberatly left the ip sending option out as I thought it was rather unsecure but if you want it in so be it.
38 2011-04-23 00:06:36 <BlueMatt> there is no point adding a second
39 2011-04-23 00:06:55 <Kiba> BlueMatt: wtf?
40 2011-04-23 00:06:59 <Kiba> what ya talking about?
41 2011-04-23 00:07:11 <BlueMatt> Kiba: which part specifically?
42 2011-04-23 00:07:27 <Kiba> the whole bitcoin is already on its way to merge and there's no point adding a second one
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46 2011-04-23 00:08:02 <BlueMatt> Kiba: 1) there is a pull, I havent seen anyone disagree that it should be merged, just the specifics 2) why do we need 2?
47 2011-04-23 00:08:21 <Kiba> don't know
48 2011-04-23 00:08:25 <Zarutian> theymos: a suggestion for blockexplorer if I may: a option to see the scripts decoded to memnomics (those used in the script runner in bitcoin node software)
49 2011-04-23 00:08:30 <LtBrenton> oh thank god, made it into a block XD
50 2011-04-23 00:08:30 <Kiba> what are you talking about
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52 2011-04-23 00:08:50 <BlueMatt> Kiba: again which part specifically and what are your objections to them?
53 2011-04-23 00:09:17 <Zarutian> Kiba: I think BlueMatt is talking about uri schemes for bitcoins.
54 2011-04-23 00:09:33 <ArtForz> Zarutian: errr... it already does
55 2011-04-23 00:09:35 <dfc> is there a way to make debug.log a little less chatty?
56 2011-04-23 00:09:49 <theymos> Zarutian: The OP_... stuff is already shown on tx pages like this: http://blockexplorer.com/t/5hs3MvPgTb
57 2011-04-23 00:10:00 <ArtForz> yep
58 2011-04-23 00:10:07 <Zarutian> damn, I hadnt noticed. How unatentive of me ;)
59 2011-04-23 00:10:07 <BlueMatt> Kiba: I was responding to Zarutian's discussion of x-btc:
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63 2011-04-23 00:12:03 <phantomcircuit> ok so now i understand why the OP_CHECKSIG is so complicated
64 2011-04-23 00:12:04 <phantomcircuit> and yet
65 2011-04-23 00:12:10 <phantomcircuit> it still seems intelligent
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69 2011-04-23 00:14:07 <Zarutian> BlueMatt: hmm.. how does https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/URI_Scheme support stuff like sealed bitcoin notes? (one A5 page folded like telegram with privkey QR coded on the inside while pubkey and value QR coded on the outside?
70 2011-04-23 00:14:43 <Zarutian> (feel free to substitute QR for datamatrix if you want)
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72 2011-04-23 00:15:15 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: That should be added to bitcoin: not created in a new uri (unless you already have x-btc: implemented in which case there should be a discussion on which is better)
73 2011-04-23 00:15:23 <BlueMatt> but otherwise its duplicating work
74 2011-04-23 00:16:54 <Zarutian> BlueMatt: well, seemed that bitcoin: was a duplication of work as x-btc was invented first but I have noone but myself to blame for not watching the forums more closely and point that out sooner.
75 2011-04-23 00:17:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: x-btc doesn't comply with the larger URI standards
76 2011-04-23 00:17:19 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: tell that to Zarutian
77 2011-04-23 00:17:32 toffoo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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79 2011-04-23 00:17:55 <luke-jr> Zarutian: the address alone can be on the outside QR-Code
80 2011-04-23 00:18:00 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: well in that case luke-jr duplicated your work and wasted his time, but in any case, its already done and a pull request pushed so at this point...no point
81 2011-04-23 00:18:12 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: your pull request isn't compliant
82 2011-04-23 00:18:30 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: that has been discussed at length, and I really dont want to get into it
83 2011-04-23 00:18:37 <Zarutian> luke-jr: which standard is that rfc-3986?
84 2011-04-23 00:18:44 <luke-jr> Zarutian: shrug
85 2011-04-23 00:18:47 toffoo has quit (Client Quit)
86 2011-04-23 00:19:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: the standard is what the community decides and that is (currently) what is in the pull request
87 2011-04-23 00:19:17 <BlueMatt> anyway I'm off now, gn
88 2011-04-23 00:19:24 endian7000 has joined
89 2011-04-23 00:19:32 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the community has already accepted the current standard basically
90 2011-04-23 00:19:35 <theymos> x-btc might be implemented later, if bitcoin: turns out to be unsuitible. Both can exist at the same time.
91 2011-04-23 00:19:46 <luke-jr> one hostile client is just a nusance
92 2011-04-23 00:20:06 <luke-jr> bitcoin: is admittedly unsuitable to complex (eg, non-address-based) things
93 2011-04-23 00:20:27 iera has joined
94 2011-04-23 00:20:31 <BlueMatt> theymos: I dont know how bitcoin: would be unsuitable where x-btc will be, but IMHO its much better to just wait until that day comes to put more work into it.
95 2011-04-23 00:20:57 <BlueMatt> ok, well when we get wallet import stuff working, then put more effort into x-btc
96 2011-04-23 00:21:06 <BlueMatt> until then, IMHO, stick with bitcoin:
97 2011-04-23 00:21:09 <Zarutian> all, I ask is that it to be considered when bitcoin: is extended.
98 2011-04-23 00:21:30 <luke-jr> Zarutian: IMO it would need to be more standard-compatible
99 2011-04-23 00:21:34 <BlueMatt> Zarutian: at that point it might be a bit too late (backward compat and such)
100 2011-04-23 00:21:44 <BlueMatt> anyway gn all
101 2011-04-23 00:22:09 <Zarutian> luke-jr: so please point me to the docu on these standards then ;)
102 2011-04-23 00:22:17 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
103 2011-04-23 00:22:43 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
104 2011-04-23 00:24:23 <ArtForz> lol
105 2011-04-23 00:36:42 endian7000 has quit (Quit: endian7000)
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111 2011-04-23 00:51:17 <B0g4r7> Do y'all know how many confirmations mtgox requires for BTC sent to them?
112 2011-04-23 00:53:28 DukeOfURL has joined
113 2011-04-23 00:53:29 <Cusipzzz> 6
114 2011-04-23 00:53:59 <B0g4r7> thx
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122 2011-04-23 01:18:55 <B0g4r7> ;;bc,stats
123 2011-04-23 01:18:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 119674 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 1285 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 7 hours, 10 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 99455.85772508
124 2011-04-23 01:19:36 <lulzplzkthx> I just saw the stupid "Don't buy bitcoins" video... now I have a couple things to say: That guy is stupid because you can't just "sell" or "buy" bitcoins, there's a lot more you can do.
125 2011-04-23 01:19:52 <lulzplzkthx> But then I realized most of the things I see here are about buying or selling them... so... I have a question for you: what have you bought or sold?
126 2011-04-23 01:19:56 <grbgout> lulzplzkthx: what video is that?
127 2011-04-23 01:20:09 <grbgout> lulzplzkthx: you should check out -otc
128 2011-04-23 01:20:31 <grbgout> lulzplzkthx: #bitcoin-otc specifically
129 2011-04-23 01:20:40 <grbgout> OTC stands for over the counter.
130 2011-04-23 01:21:36 <lulzplzkthx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoK8HXMSsNg
131 2011-04-23 01:21:40 <lulzplzkthx> That video.
132 2011-04-23 01:21:48 <grbgout> k
133 2011-04-23 01:21:56 <lulzplzkthx> I know OTC is over the counter, and been there. The wiki seems to portray it as a selling usd for btc or vie versa though.
134 2011-04-23 01:22:12 <grbgout> lulzplzkthx: you should hang out there, then, and watch the log book.
135 2011-04-23 01:22:18 <grbgout> lulzplzkthx: lots of goods, services, etc.
136 2011-04-23 01:22:26 <grbgout> someone is sell an xbox 360 right now
137 2011-04-23 01:22:34 <grbgout> someone sells pizzas though it
138 2011-04-23 01:22:39 <grbgout> *Selling
139 2011-04-23 01:22:41 <grbgout> *selling
140 2011-04-23 01:23:37 <grbgout> lulzplzkthx: you can also buy prepaid CCs with bitcoins (not necessarily through -otc), which you can then use for anything you would normally use a prepaid cc for (although you probably have to limit yourself to online pruchases).
141 2011-04-23 01:25:16 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
142 2011-04-23 01:31:23 <grbgout> lulzplzkthx: that guy glosses over a lot, and his arguments are quite misleading.
143 2011-04-23 01:34:56 danlucraft has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
144 2011-04-23 01:35:39 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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146 2011-04-23 01:37:26 <grbgout> It seems like he was lifting a lot of his arguments from sources found in the bitcoin community who presented them with the sole purpose of refuting them, except he simply left out the explanations that discounted the arguments.
147 2011-04-23 01:37:41 <grbgout> His comparison to electricity is the clearest example.
148 2011-04-23 01:38:13 <grbgout> Clearest perhaps because it was his closing argument, and therefore the freshest in my mind ;)
149 2011-04-23 01:39:01 <grbgout> Does anyone recall the place where the comparison of value is made to hiring hundreds of workers to dig a large hole? I can't recall if that was in a video, or in a forum post.
150 2011-04-23 01:39:42 <theymos> I didn't watch the video, but I've seen that mentioned on the forum a couple of times recently.
151 2011-04-23 01:42:13 xxxxxxx is now known as xxxxxxx`brb
152 2011-04-23 01:43:28 <grbgout> Kiba: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6353/the_crowdfunding_revolution_.php
153 2011-04-23 01:45:18 <theymos> Apprently the guy in that video is an anarchist. I'm surprised how forcefully some anarchists oppose Bitcoin.
154 2011-04-23 01:45:54 <grbgout> They probably don't understand how it works.
155 2011-04-23 01:46:18 <grbgout> Most of the arguments of that guy can be refuted through an understanding of how bitcoin functions.
156 2011-04-23 01:46:42 <grbgout> His premise, as lulzplzkthx pointed out, is that the only thing you can do with bitcoins is sell and buy them.
157 2011-04-23 01:47:11 <theymos> It's obviously useful as a medium of exchange.
158 2011-04-23 01:50:10 dbitcoin has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
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161 2011-04-23 01:55:26 <grbgout> Sorry, I should have been more explicit.
162 2011-04-23 01:55:47 <grbgout> His premise, as lulzplzkthx pointed out, is that the only thing you can do with bitcoins is sell and buy them, and therefore you shouldn't invest ("Don't buy bitcoins") in them.
163 2011-04-23 01:56:06 <grbgout> The title of the youtube video is "Don't buy bitcoins".
164 2011-04-23 01:56:38 <MBS> buy gold instead
165 2011-04-23 01:56:42 <MBS> you can make bullets with them
166 2011-04-23 01:59:32 brybot has quit (Quit: Page closed)
167 2011-04-23 02:01:05 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
168 2011-04-23 02:02:09 xxxxxxx`brb is now known as xxxxxxx
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170 2011-04-23 02:15:43 <sacarlson> I got past the svn today with spesmilo but still get this error now http://paste.ubuntu.com/597680/
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175 2011-04-23 02:23:00 <midnightmagic> i buy all sorts of things with bitcoins.
176 2011-04-23 02:23:34 stamit has joined
177 2011-04-23 02:24:12 <midnightmagic> the best things to buy with them are memberships, information, effort, and primary-manufactured goods. the rest rely on a medium of exchange like mtgox to establish value more concretely..
178 2011-04-23 02:26:31 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
179 2011-04-23 02:26:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 119679 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 1280 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 7 hours, 6 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 99118.45468602
180 2011-04-23 02:26:33 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,mtgox
181 2011-04-23 02:26:34 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.41,"low":1.19,"vol":40087,"buy":1.3705,"sell":1.3999,"last":1.3712}}
182 2011-04-23 02:26:35 <luke-jr> sacarlson: 'make local' handles that one too
183 2011-04-23 02:26:43 <midnightmagic> $1.41?!
184 2011-04-23 02:26:45 <midnightmagic> wtf?
185 2011-04-23 02:27:14 <midnightmagic> i guess the recent publicity is generating another bubble.
186 2011-04-23 02:27:15 <JFK911> yeah you missed the peak time to sell aren't you mad?!
187 2011-04-23 02:27:27 <JFK911> what publicity?
188 2011-04-23 02:27:34 <JFK911> bubble? Heh. you'll never buy cheap btc again
189 2011-04-23 02:27:41 <midnightmagic> i didn't miss anything; even back when it was $0.25 I was making a 25x profit.
190 2011-04-23 02:27:41 Diablo-D3 has joined
191 2011-04-23 02:27:42 <midnightmagic> lol
192 2011-04-23 02:27:58 <JFK911> you lost $1 for every btc you sold for $0.25
193 2011-04-23 02:28:07 <JFK911> :(
194 2011-04-23 02:28:39 <luke-jr> I never sold that low :P
195 2011-04-23 02:29:36 <midnightmagic> lol, i didn't "lose" anything. and you can stop projecting any time now.
196 2011-04-23 02:30:23 <luke-jr> I wish I bought more at .4
197 2011-04-23 02:31:34 <midnightmagic> the econtalk show, the interviews, the blog postings about ฿ (tim), etc. the last bubble happened when stephen gibson went all breathless on twit.tv
198 2011-04-23 02:31:37 <JFK911> i wish i bought at .4
199 2011-04-23 02:31:48 <theymos> I sold 15,000 BTC for 0.003 USD. I'm going to regret that forever...
200 2011-04-23 02:31:56 <JFK911> what
201 2011-04-23 02:31:59 mine has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
202 2011-04-23 02:32:16 kalk has joined
203 2011-04-23 02:32:21 <midnightmagic> or, everyone could think that, hold the currency forever, the markets don't move, and the currency goes anæmic
204 2011-04-23 02:32:57 <kalk> Hi guys
205 2011-04-23 02:34:34 <sacarlson> luke-jr I did make local should I run it twice?
206 2011-04-23 02:34:50 <luke-jr> sacarlson: did you 'make'?
207 2011-04-23 02:35:02 <sacarlson> luke-jr no just make local
208 2011-04-23 02:35:07 <luke-jr> â¦
209 2011-04-23 02:35:18 <midnightmagic> art gave me a great idea a long time ago; make ฿. sell/use/circulate 80%. save 20% long-term.
210 2011-04-23 02:35:49 <luke-jr> sacarlson: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Spesmilo#Quick_start_(from_source)
211 2011-04-23 02:36:21 <sacarlson> luke-jr ok reading thanks
212 2011-04-23 02:36:35 <dfc> is there any easy fix to the compile problems with itcoin on debian due to the sslv2 deprecation?
213 2011-04-23 02:36:39 honest-geek has joined
214 2011-04-23 02:36:48 <kalk> Wow the priced went to the sky
215 2011-04-23 02:37:06 <midnightmagic> it works, and it corrects the psychological feeling of potential earnings lost. the reality is there's no way to see the future. that last precipitous drop could have signalled a downwards spiral to $0.20 or less. in the end, who really knows what's going to happen?
216 2011-04-23 02:37:44 <honest-geek> .20 * 20 >20 xx00xx?
217 2011-04-23 02:37:48 <jgarzik> dfc: can you pastebin the output you're seeing?
218 2011-04-23 02:37:53 <dfc> yeah
219 2011-04-23 02:37:55 <dfc> im sorry
220 2011-04-23 02:37:55 <jgarzik> dfc: I wasn't aware of build problems
221 2011-04-23 02:38:18 <kalk> Can i ask you guys which pool you are mining at?
222 2011-04-23 02:38:25 <midnightmagic> i mine solo.
223 2011-04-23 02:38:28 <dfc> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=622027
224 2011-04-23 02:38:34 <dfc> thats the debian bug for it
225 2011-04-23 02:38:40 <kalk> How do you mine solo?
226 2011-04-23 02:38:42 <dfc> all of the info should be in there
227 2011-04-23 02:38:51 <midnightmagic> i have lots of gpu.
228 2011-04-23 02:38:52 <dfc> i am more than happy to help out
229 2011-04-23 02:39:20 <sacarlson> luke-jr that did it thanks, I guess I should have read the instructions
230 2011-04-23 02:39:25 <kalk> Cool, making good money then?
231 2011-04-23 02:40:06 <jgarzik> dfc: looks like a boost build problem
232 2011-04-23 02:40:14 <jgarzik> dfc: it's dying inside a boost header file
233 2011-04-23 02:41:23 eao has joined
234 2011-04-23 02:41:49 <dfc> jgarzik: its due to the migration to openssl 1.0 and the dropping of sslv2
235 2011-04-23 02:42:00 <dfc> the major debbug for the whole mess is : http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=622134
236 2011-04-23 02:42:26 <dfc> does bitcoin actually use sslv2?
237 2011-04-23 02:42:32 <jgarzik> dfc: bitcoin itself actually disables SSLv2: context.set_options(ssl::context::no_sslv2);
238 2011-04-23 02:42:39 <midnightmagic> kalk: not what i'd consider to be good money. :-)
239 2011-04-23 02:42:44 <jgarzik> dfc: but anyway
240 2011-04-23 02:42:48 <jgarzik> dfc: boost problem, not bitcoin
241 2011-04-23 02:43:10 <dfc> argh
242 2011-04-23 02:43:44 <dfc> thats going to take forever to get fixed:(
243 2011-04-23 02:44:04 ahmedinejad has quit (Quit: Leaving)
244 2011-04-23 02:44:34 <honest-geek> hark at the wind
245 2011-04-23 02:44:48 <honest-geek> my fair geek
246 2011-04-23 02:44:51 <sacarlson> luke-jr how is it posible that it can send both btc and tbc ? is that if you have two bitcoind running?
247 2011-04-23 02:45:08 <luke-jr> sacarlson: no, they use the same network
248 2011-04-23 02:45:37 <honest-geek> the pope HATES bitcoin
249 2011-04-23 02:45:43 <sacarlson> luke-jr I thought they used a different port when you run testnet
250 2011-04-23 02:45:57 <luke-jr> honest-geek: lies
251 2011-04-23 02:46:03 <honest-geek> so does the queen
252 2011-04-23 02:46:04 <luke-jr> sacarlson: yes, but neither BTC nor TBC are testnet
253 2011-04-23 02:46:21 <honest-geek> luke-jr: attest?
254 2011-04-23 02:46:29 <luke-jr> ⦠unless you connect Spesmilo to a testnet bitcoind anyhow
255 2011-04-23 02:46:34 <sacarlson> luke-jr oh I thought tbc was tetnet so what is tbc then?
256 2011-04-23 02:46:46 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_BitCoin
257 2011-04-23 02:47:10 <honest-geek> the pope has KILLED many... ruled ALL and will HATE w/ satan himself.
258 2011-04-23 02:47:27 <honest-geek> luke-jr: confess
259 2011-04-23 02:47:36 <luke-jr> honest-geek: stop the slander, please
260 2011-04-23 02:47:41 <honest-geek> now not later
261 2011-04-23 02:47:42 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
262 2011-04-23 02:47:57 <honest-geek> slander is no way to surrender
263 2011-04-23 02:48:35 <honest-geek> luke-jr: in the eyes of the divine.
264 2011-04-23 02:48:51 <honest-geek> you are....going down
265 2011-04-23 02:49:13 <honest-geek> IF YOU ARE PART OF THAT.
266 2011-04-23 02:49:21 <honest-geek> confess
267 2011-04-23 02:49:39 <honest-geek> one chance
268 2011-04-23 02:49:51 <honest-geek> ?
269 2011-04-23 02:50:03 <honest-geek> CARE TO ANSWER?
270 2011-04-23 02:51:08 <honest-geek> silence is acquence
271 2011-04-23 02:51:14 <honest-geek> judged
272 2011-04-23 02:51:54 <AAA_awright> honest-geek: It's just a different number of satoshis/atomic units, no other difference
273 2011-04-23 02:53:00 <honest-geek> ask luke-jr...didn't _he_ have your answers before?
274 2011-04-23 02:53:05 xlogik has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
275 2011-04-23 02:53:58 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
276 2011-04-23 02:54:17 <dfc> there is no way to short bitcoin?
277 2011-04-23 02:54:20 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
278 2011-04-23 02:54:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 119681 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 1278 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 7 hours, 9 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 98837.89202374
279 2011-04-23 02:54:31 <honest-geek> What is your religious affiliation?
280 2011-04-23 02:55:53 <honest-geek> One thing conspiracy theorists are right about is that it is based on money that doesn Ìt exist, never existed, never will.
281 2011-04-23 02:56:09 <honest-geek> The ones who own the banks also own the media and politics, so it can be portrayed the way they want you to believe it.
282 2011-04-23 02:56:11 <sacarlson> luke-jr I just noticed spesmilo is missing the number of connections and present block size, is that a planed future adition?
283 2011-04-23 02:57:17 <honest-geek> I know 100% sure there is no end time, at least not like it is being portrayed everywhere, be it religion, media, etc.
284 2011-04-23 02:57:31 <honest-geek> This place was never meant to end the way it is being described. There will be a time when everyone will be released but that is not a mass event, but rather 1 by 1....work on yourself.This place was never meant to end the way it is being described. There will be a time when everyone will be released but that is not a mass event, but rather 1 by 1....work on yourself.
285 2011-04-23 02:58:22 <luke-jr> sacarlson: possibly. Do people use that info? XD
286 2011-04-23 02:58:40 <luke-jr> also, what do you mean by "present block size"?
287 2011-04-23 02:58:41 <honest-geek> forward to: luke-jr
288 2011-04-23 02:59:00 <sacarlson> luke-jr well I need it since I only have a single connection if that fails my system stops working
289 2011-04-23 02:59:09 <luke-jr> i c
290 2011-04-23 02:59:28 <honest-geek> There is no end of time. A long time ago, the people did ALMOST manage to take over, and then bad things happened on earth to those people....what are you seeing now?
291 2011-04-23 02:59:39 <honest-geek> ?
292 2011-04-23 02:59:48 <honest-geek> luke?
293 2011-04-23 02:59:51 <luke-jr> sacarlson: any interest in cooking up a patch/branch? âº
294 2011-04-23 03:00:08 <honest-geek> luke: Are you really living on the planet you think you are?
295 2011-04-23 03:00:41 <honest-geek> For the ones who are a bit smarter than that, ask away, I will answer the way I choose to. Before you ask the question, force yourself to think outside the box that was created for you by others...ask a real question that you thought about, formulate it in detail.
296 2011-04-23 03:01:03 <sacarlson> luke-jr I'm not much of a python programer but I might consider it. at some point I might add to it to be able to access different networks also
297 2011-04-23 03:01:41 DuoSRX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
298 2011-04-23 03:02:02 DuoSRX has joined
299 2011-04-23 03:02:11 <honest-geek> luke-jr: are u a python prog?
300 2011-04-23 03:02:50 <sacarlson> luke-jr I've done a little python programing just small mods or links to it
301 2011-04-23 03:03:21 <sacarlson> luke-jr I used python to connect to skype api
302 2011-04-23 03:03:35 <honest-geek> It does not work for everybody, you have to reach a certain stage in your development. This means living by strict rules, applying them to everything you do in life, in detail. Most humans do not have the discipline nor temparence to achieve that stage. Some here talk like they can, but I know even without knowing anything about their lives that they are further away from it than they think.
303 2011-04-23 03:04:00 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
304 2011-04-23 03:04:26 <honest-geek> for lukeJR personally: "Visualisation" works because it is an essential way of the creational process in this material universe. The Universe is a living entity who uses it Ìs Mind to create and the beings created from that may have that same power to within their boundaries
305 2011-04-23 03:07:56 f3n is now known as f3ndot
306 2011-04-23 03:08:05 <dfc> is mainline bitcoind the only bitcoin client i can play with to see how the nonstandard transactions work? AKA am I SOL until libboost gets fixed?
307 2011-04-23 03:08:08 <honest-geek> Luke Jr: friends with the Pope?
308 2011-04-23 03:08:21 <honest-geek> y/n
309 2011-04-23 03:08:31 <honest-geek> one answer is correct
310 2011-04-23 03:08:53 <honest-geek> ?
311 2011-04-23 03:09:02 lulzplzkthx has joined
312 2011-04-23 03:09:13 kalk has left ()
313 2011-04-23 03:10:54 <sacarlson> dfc: there is also the java version bitcoinj I think
314 2011-04-23 03:11:17 <honest-geek> LUKE-JR: silence is acquiescence
315 2011-04-23 03:12:13 <honest-geek> ?
316 2011-04-23 03:12:16 <honest-geek> ...
317 2011-04-23 03:18:50 <yrral1_> ;;bc,mtgox
318 2011-04-23 03:18:51 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.448,"low":1.191,"vol":42441,"buy":1.425,"sell":1.4489,"last":1.448}}
319 2011-04-23 03:18:56 <luke-jr> sacarlson: maybe make a mockup then?
320 2011-04-23 03:19:21 <luke-jr> dfc: libboost isn't brokenâ¦
321 2011-04-23 03:19:25 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
322 2011-04-23 03:19:47 <honest-geek> luke-jr: Watch it.... you're in faith default.
323 2011-04-23 03:20:00 <midnightmagic> aaargh one half of a 5970 may have just kicked the bucket.
324 2011-04-23 03:20:04 * midnightmagic blames honest-geek
325 2011-04-23 03:20:15 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: definitely your own fault for OCing it
326 2011-04-23 03:20:47 <honest-geek> See, if the "master" is not really a master yet he acts like one it will mean he will make errors. He will have flawed thoughts and act accordingly.
327 2011-04-23 03:21:06 <midnightmagic> right, overclocking it from 725 to 750. the card never went above 85C, fans run at 35% tops, and I have direct filtered air from the outside with <25% humidity at all times blowing directly on it.
328 2011-04-23 03:21:16 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: definitely your own fault for OCing it
329 2011-04-23 03:21:49 <midnightmagic> to 750? after running perfectly stably since mid-january?
330 2011-04-23 03:21:57 <honest-geek> luke-jr... no point in trying to find me. I already found you.
331 2011-04-23 03:22:20 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
332 2011-04-23 03:22:31 <honest-geek> People will start listening to him and adopt the flawed opinions and way of living.....eventually he will do more harm than 1 bloodline actually has the power to do personally.
333 2011-04-23 03:23:44 xlogik has joined
334 2011-04-23 03:24:50 <honest-geek> to luke-jr: He was initiated in certain levels but it is not as in depth as one would think (including himself), he is clever though.
335 2011-04-23 03:24:59 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: yes
336 2011-04-23 03:25:30 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: it's not designed for that clock speed.
337 2011-04-23 03:25:35 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
338 2011-04-23 03:25:50 Netsniper has joined
339 2011-04-23 03:26:38 <honest-geek> Luke.... Some of us have the task to do it within certain boundaries. How do you suppose certain knowledge in past times was suddenly there? Luck, chance, coincidence?
340 2011-04-23 03:27:11 <honest-geek> you will.... BURN IN HELL.
341 2011-04-23 03:27:14 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: what did you do to hg?
342 2011-04-23 03:27:30 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: ignored him.
343 2011-04-23 03:27:41 honest-geek has quit (Quit: Page closed)
344 2011-04-23 03:28:00 stamit has quit (Quit: stamit)
345 2011-04-23 03:28:53 <midnightmagic> seems to have had a bit of a hard-on for you there.. you sure it was just ignoring him? you weren't pushing tonal on him maybe?
346 2011-04-23 03:29:16 <midnightmagic> it was that farzong in disguise?
347 2011-04-23 03:29:18 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: nope, he'd be a waste of time
348 2011-04-23 03:29:25 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: he clearly can't think at all
349 2011-04-23 03:30:47 <sacarlson> luke-jr I just read the tonal article it seems just another form of hex notation
350 2011-04-23 03:31:34 <luke-jr> sacarlson: what article?
351 2011-04-23 03:31:47 <sacarlson> luke-jr the tonal wiki link you sent me
352 2011-04-23 03:32:32 <luke-jr> well, that's just the application to Bitcoin. :p
353 2011-04-23 03:32:42 <luke-jr> it doesn't talk about the Tonal system itself
354 2011-04-23 03:33:14 <sacarlson> luke-jr well I'll stick with hex
355 2011-04-23 03:33:27 <luke-jr> sacarlson: hex is newer, and not as complete
356 2011-04-23 03:33:34 <sacarlson> but I guess hex doen't have decimal places?
357 2011-04-23 03:34:15 <luke-jr> well, it *can*⦠but it doesn't have a system of time, or measures, weights, etc
358 2011-04-23 03:34:36 <phantomcircuit> wat
359 2011-04-23 03:34:42 <luke-jr> if you want to understand more about Tonal, I'd have to suggest readign the book http://www.lulu.com/product/file-download/tonal-system/10991091
360 2011-04-23 03:34:46 <luke-jr> it's not very long
361 2011-04-23 03:34:47 <phantomcircuit> oh i see luke-jr being himself
362 2011-04-23 03:34:48 <phantomcircuit> xD
363 2011-04-23 03:36:19 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: is your node/wallet done yet? :P
364 2011-04-23 03:38:35 _________ has joined
365 2011-04-23 03:41:31 <_________> MESSAGE FOR LUKE-JR: UNREPENTANT: Canada's Genocide - Kevin Annett http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc8FwI-Dxos&feature=related
366 2011-04-23 03:42:34 <luke-jr> _________: just so you don't waste too much time, please understand I don't need software to ignore you. it's called will power, and no IP shifting or name changing games can trick it into not ignoring you.
367 2011-04-23 03:42:45 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, nah i got to implementing OP_CHECKSIG and was like WAT
368 2011-04-23 03:42:53 <phantomcircuit> i now understand why
369 2011-04-23 03:43:02 <phantomcircuit> but it still seems horribly inelegant
370 2011-04-23 03:43:38 <_________> LUKE-JR- where does your power come from?
371 2011-04-23 03:43:53 <_________> what authority?
372 2011-04-23 03:44:13 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
373 2011-04-23 03:44:14 <_________> ...what... what... you say
374 2011-04-23 03:45:43 <_________> again: FOR LUKE-JR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc8FwI-Dxos&feature=related
375 2011-04-23 03:45:51 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
376 2011-04-23 03:47:13 <midnightmagic> huh. that's weird. it's back alive again..
377 2011-04-23 03:47:20 * midnightmagic credits luke-jr.
378 2011-04-23 03:47:28 <midnightmagic> thanks luke!
379 2011-04-23 03:47:34 <luke-jr> np
380 2011-04-23 03:47:37 <luke-jr> hope you learned your lesson
381 2011-04-23 03:47:46 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
382 2011-04-23 03:47:47 <luke-jr> and clock it reasonably now
383 2011-04-23 03:47:51 <da2ce7> _________, wtf?
384 2011-04-23 03:48:00 <midnightmagic> 775/1000 ! DIE cards, DIE!!
385 2011-04-23 03:48:17 toffoo has joined
386 2011-04-23 03:48:20 <_________> FOR LUKE-JR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc8FwI-Dxos&feature=related
387 2011-04-23 03:48:49 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: I think I found a little piece of cardboard that was blocking the fan..
388 2011-04-23 03:49:15 <da2ce7> _________, you don't ened to say it over and over.
389 2011-04-23 03:49:38 alystair has joined
390 2011-04-23 03:49:50 <_________> da2ce7 if you only knew the sin.
391 2011-04-23 03:50:07 <_________> are u part of it?
392 2011-04-23 03:50:09 <da2ce7> _________ stop trolling
393 2011-04-23 03:50:21 <_________> da2ce7
394 2011-04-23 03:50:46 <da2ce7> nanotube, can you please kick _________
395 2011-04-23 03:51:44 <midnightmagic> one more reason to set up ฿ credit with gribble for anonymous kickban..
396 2011-04-23 03:51:52 <midnightmagic> =]
397 2011-04-23 03:52:09 <_________> no need... i';; take da2ced7 and luke-jr with me
398 2011-04-23 03:52:21 Netsniper has joined
399 2011-04-23 03:52:21 <_________> see you
400 2011-04-23 03:52:25 _________ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
401 2011-04-23 03:52:42 <RenaKunisaki> heh, pay in bitcoins to be unbanned
402 2011-04-23 03:53:55 henchan has left ()
403 2011-04-23 03:54:35 henchan has joined
404 2011-04-23 03:57:44 bitcoin has joined
405 2011-04-23 03:58:48 bitcoin has quit (Client Quit)
406 2011-04-23 03:59:28 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, would you like to implement OP_CHECKSIG for me?!
407 2011-04-23 03:59:45 <phantomcircuit> all i need is someone to handle the script re-writting no biggie...
408 2011-04-23 04:01:11 <grbgout> You don't need to kickban people. Behold the power of /ignore
409 2011-04-23 04:01:25 <grbgout> midnightmagic: is that B| a UTF character?
410 2011-04-23 04:03:38 dbitcoin has joined
411 2011-04-23 04:06:34 phantomcircuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
412 2011-04-23 04:12:52 B0g4r7 has joined
413 2011-04-23 04:13:40 <B0g4r7> http://mtgox.com/code/ticker.php
414 2011-04-23 04:13:55 <B0g4r7> There where it shows volume, what time period is that over?
415 2011-04-23 04:14:17 <B0g4r7> It showed over 40k earlier today, and now it shows 39k.
416 2011-04-23 04:14:46 phantomcircuit has joined
417 2011-04-23 04:26:22 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
418 2011-04-23 04:27:11 yrral1_ has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds)
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424 2011-04-23 04:47:51 <netxshare> I need to locate a arrow much like this one
425 2011-04-23 04:47:52 <netxshare> http://www.bitcoincharts.com/static/arrow-up.png
426 2011-04-23 04:47:55 <netxshare> and a downone
427 2011-04-23 04:48:00 <netxshare> in red
428 2011-04-23 04:48:05 <netxshare> that is public domain
429 2011-04-23 04:48:39 <netxshare> nice
430 2011-04-23 04:48:42 <netxshare> found some
431 2011-04-23 04:50:27 <phantomcircuit> how about just drawing them
432 2011-04-23 04:50:31 <phantomcircuit> it's nto exactly hard
433 2011-04-23 04:52:18 <forrestv> just reuse that arrow
434 2011-04-23 04:52:59 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
435 2011-04-23 04:55:25 <netxshare> I dunno if bitcoincharts.com would like it if I reused their images
436 2011-04-23 04:56:10 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, so im thinking that instead of rolling our own we should be using zeromq
437 2011-04-23 04:58:32 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ?
438 2011-04-23 04:58:35 <Kiba> so
439 2011-04-23 04:58:50 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, for push miners
440 2011-04-23 04:58:56 <Kiba> nobody thinks The Bitcoin Weekly is important enough to create an article for in the Bitcoin wiki
441 2011-04-23 04:59:00 dbitcoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
442 2011-04-23 04:59:01 <phantomcircuit> this is a well thought through library
443 2011-04-23 04:59:05 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I have little interest in miners.
444 2011-04-23 04:59:13 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, it's a wiki you can do so yourself
445 2011-04-23 04:59:23 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, same for wallet protocol
446 2011-04-23 04:59:28 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it's been suggested
447 2011-04-23 05:00:00 * Kiba yawn
448 2011-04-23 05:00:01 <luke-jr> but 0MQ is not a recognized standard, is not licensed as freely as a standard really should be, and leaves a lot of work to be done still
449 2011-04-23 05:00:40 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yeah it just passes messages
450 2011-04-23 05:00:48 <phantomcircuit> and i suspect it's got some m$ shti in it
451 2011-04-23 05:00:55 <phantomcircuit> it's used heavily my ipython
452 2011-04-23 05:02:59 dfc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
453 2011-04-23 05:04:38 <luke-jr> hmm
454 2011-04-23 05:04:41 <luke-jr> I wonder if XMPP would fit well
455 2011-04-23 05:06:02 <jercos> XMPP fits well everywhere.
456 2011-04-23 05:07:53 <luke-jr> lol XD
457 2011-04-23 05:07:53 <grbgout> Kiba: did you see the gamasutra link I pointed your way?
458 2011-04-23 05:08:07 <luke-jr> jercos: XMPP has no guarantees your message got anywhere tho
459 2011-04-23 05:08:43 <Kiba> grbgout: oh...
460 2011-04-23 05:08:45 <jercos> luke-jr: neither does anything.
461 2011-04-23 05:08:49 <Kiba> need to look back
462 2011-04-23 05:09:29 <luke-jr> jercos: well, some protocols have ACKs
463 2011-04-23 05:09:37 <luke-jr> like TCP (at a higher level)
464 2011-04-23 05:09:42 LightRider has quit ()
465 2011-04-23 05:10:06 has joined
466 2011-04-23 05:10:09 <jercos> luke-jr: Yes, but they don't *guarantee arrival* :p
467 2011-04-23 05:10:12 <jercos> They just confirm it.
468 2011-04-23 05:10:15 <luke-jr> sure
469 2011-04-23 05:11:12 <jercos> Funny you should mention TCP, too...
470 2011-04-23 05:11:33 <jercos> Given XMPP already runs over it.
471 2011-04-23 05:12:11 <luke-jr> but TCP is at a higher layer
472 2011-04-23 05:12:30 <luke-jr> just because the OS receives the TCP packet, does not mean the application has understood it
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485 2011-04-23 05:58:11 <JFK911> ;;bt,mtgox
486 2011-04-23 05:58:11 <gribble> Error: "bt,mtgox" is not a valid command.
487 2011-04-23 05:58:16 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
488 2011-04-23 05:58:17 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.45,"low":1.2011,"vol":49236,"buy":1.3311,"sell":1.367,"last":1.3483}}
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491 2011-04-23 06:18:51 RenaKunisaki is now known as hater
492 2011-04-23 06:18:57 hater is now known as RenaKunisaki
493 2011-04-23 06:36:54 <sacarlson> has anyone ever tried to manipulate MAX_MONEY before?
494 2011-04-23 06:37:13 <lfm_> sacarlson: how you mean?
495 2011-04-23 06:37:47 <sacarlson> lfm_: in my proto coin I am testing changes in max_money and geting error ERROR: CTransaction::CheckTransaction() : txout total out of range
496 2011-04-23 06:38:30 <sacarlson> lfm_ I must not have found all the places that the value is used someplace
497 2011-04-23 06:38:44 <lfm_> well if you try to make it bigger you might easily got overflows
498 2011-04-23 06:39:31 <sacarlson> lfm_: well I tried to make it very small 1000 blocks and that failed and so I tried to set it the same value with my call but that also fails
499 2011-04-23 06:40:37 <lfm_> max_money is the 21e6 btc value - no?
500 2011-04-23 06:41:23 <sacarlson> lfm_: the value I see if I get the original value printf with %u I get the original value of 1510424576
501 2011-04-23 06:42:18 <sacarlson> original max_money value comes from static const int64 MAX_MONEY = 21000000 * COIN;
502 2011-04-23 06:42:52 <sacarlson> static const int64 COIN = 100000000;
503 2011-04-23 06:43:46 <RenaKunisaki> %u doesn't work with int64
504 2011-04-23 06:44:01 <sacarlson> RenaKunisaki: oh cool I didn't know that
505 2011-04-23 06:44:27 <lfm_> sacarlson: use %lu
506 2011-04-23 06:44:35 <sacarlson> RenaKunisaki: so what print format and what about what I convert the value from in atoi
507 2011-04-23 06:44:36 Lartza has joined
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510 2011-04-23 06:44:48 <sacarlson> lfm_: ok I'll try that thanks
511 2011-04-23 06:44:55 <RenaKunisaki> the proper standard method is rather ugly; you include a header file (can't remember it) and do something like printf("%" PRIu64, foo)
512 2011-04-23 06:44:59 <lfm_> cant convert to 32 bit its too small
513 2011-04-23 06:45:17 <RenaKunisaki> but %lu or %llu probably works in most cases if you're just testing
514 2011-04-23 06:45:36 <luke-jr> sacarlson: atoi is C, not C++
515 2011-04-23 06:45:58 <sacarlson> luke-jr yes but atoi still works fine for all my other values
516 2011-04-23 06:46:14 <luke-jr> :P
517 2011-04-23 06:46:36 <lfm_> atoi still works in c++
518 2011-04-23 06:46:38 <sacarlson> luke-jr sorry I'm a C programer not a C++ dude
519 2011-04-23 06:46:43 <luke-jr> lfm_: none of the core bitcoind code uses BTC values
520 2011-04-23 06:46:56 <luke-jr> lfm_: it works due to C++ being (mostly) backward compatible
521 2011-04-23 06:47:08 <lfm_> yup
522 2011-04-23 06:47:36 <lfm_> like printf isnt c++ but bitcoin uses it anyway
523 2011-04-23 06:47:48 <sacarlson> lfm_: but will atoi still work with int64?
524 2011-04-23 06:48:00 <sacarlson> I didn't get any errors so I guess it does
525 2011-04-23 06:48:07 <lfm_> should use atol
526 2011-04-23 06:48:22 <sacarlson> lfm_: ok good to know
527 2011-04-23 06:48:52 <luke-jr> could use atoll too :P
528 2011-04-23 06:49:06 <luke-jr> in case you want to compile a 16-bit version XD
529 2011-04-23 06:49:16 <luke-jr> ;;bc,mtgox
530 2011-04-23 06:49:17 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.45,"low":1.2011,"vol":48494,"buy":1.3682,"sell":1.396,"last":1.3682}}
531 2011-04-23 06:49:25 <lfm_> atoll is for "long long" you use if you are on 32 bit system
532 2011-04-23 06:49:30 <sacarlson> luke-jr ok I'll write the function atoheell just for you
533 2011-04-23 06:49:35 <luke-jr> why oh why did I have to find my block today when mtgox was at high
534 2011-04-23 06:49:56 <luke-jr> lfm_: isn't "long" 64-bit on a 32-bit system?
535 2011-04-23 06:50:04 <lfm_> nope
536 2011-04-23 06:50:15 <luke-jr> then how does atol work? :P
537 2011-04-23 06:50:17 <lfm_> long is 32 on 32 bit sys
538 2011-04-23 06:50:20 <luke-jr> Bitcoin runs fine on 32-bit
539 2011-04-23 06:50:36 <lfm_> atoi and atol are the same on 32 bit sys
540 2011-04-23 06:50:51 <luke-jr> point being he should use atoll then
541 2011-04-23 06:51:01 <luke-jr> (or C++)
542 2011-04-23 06:51:01 <lfm_> ya uint64 is "long long" tho right
543 2011-04-23 06:51:17 <lfm_> ok true
544 2011-04-23 06:51:38 <luke-jr> URI support patch has a C++ string-to-integer parser :P
545 2011-04-23 06:52:52 <sacarlson> luke-jr URI? is that already in the code I now play with?
546 2011-04-23 06:53:29 <luke-jr> sacarlson: it is if you merged git://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin.git bitcoinuri
547 2011-04-23 06:55:00 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
548 2011-04-23 06:56:40 <sacarlson> ok the print with printf(" %lu ", uvalue); still returns the same value 1510424576 as before
549 2011-04-23 06:57:30 <lfm_> sacarlson: well what did you calculate for uvalue? i bet you overflowed somewhere
550 2011-04-23 06:58:24 <lfm_> note 1510424576 is close to 32 bit limit
551 2011-04-23 07:00:19 <lfm_> 1510424576 = 0X5A074000
552 2011-04-23 07:00:43 <sacarlson> lfm_: well this is the value I get also from my atoi when I get the value from my config file but returns same error
553 2011-04-23 07:01:00 <sacarlson> i didn't try to change the atol yet
554 2011-04-23 07:01:11 <lfm_> ya atoi only returns 32 bit values
555 2011-04-23 07:01:21 <lfm_> atoll
556 2011-04-23 07:01:28 <sacarlson> lfm_: ok atoll
557 2011-04-23 07:01:48 <sacarlson> lfm_: I'll try change that now and see if that makes any diff
558 2011-04-23 07:02:11 <lfm_> have fun
559 2011-04-23 07:04:32 <sacarlson> init.cpp:233: error: cannot convert âstd::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >â to âconst char*â for argument â1â to âlong long int atoll(const char*)â
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565 2011-04-23 07:09:52 <sacarlson> would stringstream work better?
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570 2011-04-23 07:35:33 TD has joined
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572 2011-04-23 07:38:12 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
573 2011-04-23 07:38:18 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.45,"low":1.217,"vol":47959,"buy":1.331,"sell":1.408,"last":1.341}}
574 2011-04-23 07:44:00 tenach has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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579 2011-04-23 07:56:44 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
580 2011-04-23 07:56:45 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.45,"low":1.2201,"vol":47964,"buy":1.3401,"sell":1.44,"last":1.412}}
581 2011-04-23 07:58:28 <JFK911> we need to get some bitcoin stats on google finance
582 2011-04-23 07:58:58 <DavidSJ> What stats would you like?
583 2011-04-23 07:59:07 <JFK911> all of them
584 2011-04-23 07:59:14 <DavidSJ> lol
585 2011-04-23 07:59:21 <DavidSJ> How about if you had to prioritize?
586 2011-04-23 07:59:34 <JFK911> but if they started with enough to google "convert 50 btc to usd" that would rule
587 2011-04-23 08:00:33 <DavidSJ> what else?
588 2011-04-23 08:00:54 <JFK911> i don't know. google could think of the rest. they are google.
589 2011-04-23 08:04:13 <DavidSJ> Suppose a Google engineer were hanging out on #bitcoin-dev and wanted suggestions for possible 20% work. What would you say to him?
590 2011-04-23 08:04:49 <doublec> I'd say, contribute to the other google engineer working on bitcoinj
591 2011-04-23 08:09:13 xxxxxxx is now known as xxxxxxx`brb
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612 2011-04-23 09:05:49 <jaromil> i'd say java sux ... :D
613 2011-04-23 09:07:31 <jaromil> agree with BTC on google finance. if anyone interested in thinkering on comparative values: its one of the outcomes of the research at DYNDY.net
614 2011-04-23 09:08:20 <jaromil> i'd say a new currency is like unexplored land: you need some serious ethnography first of all
615 2011-04-23 09:08:35 <Diablo-D3> heh
616 2011-04-23 09:09:12 <jaromil> well, understanding who are your neighbours and what is your relationship to them isn't that simple in bitcoin :)
617 2011-04-23 09:09:30 <sacarlson> well I jaromil what's ethnography? I got to look that up
618 2011-04-23 09:09:47 <jaromil> sacarlson: is something similar to anthropology but then more on the field
619 2011-04-23 09:10:07 <jaromil> commonly referred to explorations in virgin lands you know pigmees and stuff
620 2011-04-23 09:10:43 <jaromil> however not just that
621 2011-04-23 09:11:03 <jaromil> i guess there are anthopologists lurking here so i use ethnography just to piss them off
622 2011-04-23 09:11:35 <jaromil> since anthropologists are nasty bastards that end up not living into the field just commenting about it from distance
623 2011-04-23 09:11:50 <jaromil> to make *very simple* now. i call them anthropofagists :D
624 2011-04-23 09:13:43 <sipa> right, and what does that mean in the context of a currency?
625 2011-04-23 09:14:10 <sacarlson> jaromil: well I'm looking at exploring technical posibilities of smaller network crypto coins, I got my value of max_money now changeable
626 2011-04-23 09:14:27 jimb0 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
627 2011-04-23 09:14:37 <jaromil> sacarlson: good exploration, i think is very interesting
628 2011-04-23 09:15:11 <jaromil> sipa: i'll try to write it after having understood the code better
629 2011-04-23 09:15:30 BlueMatt has joined
630 2011-04-23 09:16:05 <sacarlson> and like to thank lfm_ and luke-jr for pointing some of my many mistakes, I found one big mistake was that I was making the value too small
631 2011-04-23 09:16:30 <jaromil> however the point i'm making is that evaluating a value has to do with social dynamics and not just with an exchange node. still the exchange node will "mechanically aproximate" values. ultimately the failure of the financial system is relying solely on such approximations
632 2011-04-23 09:17:07 <jaromil> s/is relying/has been caused by relying/
633 2011-04-23 09:19:33 <jaromil> since social dynamics are categorically excluded from the system, the system itself is only confronted with the natural desasters that it has been causing. that is not the case of bitcoin since it does opens engineering possibilities that link more appropriately value systems with social systems - a strong characteristic of P2P is linking people not institutions
634 2011-04-23 09:20:12 jimb0 has joined
635 2011-04-23 09:20:28 <jaromil> just morning ramblings sipping coffee, but what i'm rly looking forward is understand the code better and for today wrap up pull req 177 into a new one following jgarzik's recommendations
636 2011-04-23 09:21:40 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
637 2011-04-23 09:27:40 henchan has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
638 2011-04-23 09:32:01 * Diablo-D3 smacks jaromil
639 2011-04-23 09:32:12 <Diablo-D3> no rambling with giant words
640 2011-04-23 09:37:40 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
641 2011-04-23 09:42:04 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
642 2011-04-23 09:42:05 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.45,"low":1.2504,"vol":43193,"buy":1.3505,"sell":1.4299,"last":1.3524}}
643 2011-04-23 09:44:47 da2ce7 has joined
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645 2011-04-23 09:53:10 <jaromil> Diablo-D3: ouch :)
646 2011-04-23 09:53:14 <jaromil> i guess i deserved it
647 2011-04-23 10:00:01 gjs278 has joined
648 2011-04-23 10:12:07 Marcel has joined
649 2011-04-23 10:14:24 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
650 2011-04-23 10:15:06 dbitcoin has joined
651 2011-04-23 10:19:07 AmpEater has joined
652 2011-04-23 10:21:58 <Diablo-D3> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2476605
653 2011-04-23 10:22:05 <Diablo-D3> this is where everyone upvotes like crazy
654 2011-04-23 10:22:07 <Diablo-D3> do it now
655 2011-04-23 10:22:47 <gjs278> I've been on fp of hacker news once. one of the comments was "this is the saddest story to have ever been on the front page"
656 2011-04-23 10:24:06 * Diablo-D3 sends shit regularly to the top
657 2011-04-23 10:24:20 <anarchyx> anyone selling large amounts?
658 2011-04-23 10:24:23 <jaromil> gjs278: lol what was the story
659 2011-04-23 10:24:29 <Diablo-D3> I think if my karma gets high enough, anything I post will just instapear
660 2011-04-23 10:24:30 <anarchyx> 100k ;)
661 2011-04-23 10:24:36 <gjs278> a joke article about how you should always run as root on linux
662 2011-04-23 10:24:53 <BlueMatt> anarchyx: ask on #bitcoin-otc
663 2011-04-23 10:24:59 <anarchyx> will do
664 2011-04-23 10:25:25 <jaromil> gjs278: joke? why joke? :D
665 2011-04-23 10:25:33 larsivi has joined
666 2011-04-23 10:25:43 <gjs278> I agree
667 2011-04-23 10:26:17 <jaromil> well, licking my sudoers nowadays i've came to a good compromise
668 2011-04-23 10:27:04 <jaromil> wow was just noticing this on ycom http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTM2NQ
669 2011-04-23 10:27:15 <jaromil> and in fact yea. its happening!
670 2011-04-23 10:27:27 * jaromil slashes liquorix away
671 2011-04-23 10:32:23 <topi`> blocks per hour has gone up from 6.9 to 7.38 now, which seems to be some kind of reaction from miners to the peak in BTC/USD rate
672 2011-04-23 10:32:41 <mtrlt> ;;bc,stats
673 2011-04-23 10:32:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 119747 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 1212 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 16 hours, 49 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 100892.70971833
674 2011-04-23 10:32:51 <mtrlt> gonna break 100k :>
675 2011-04-23 10:33:28 <sipa> it may, yes
676 2011-04-23 10:33:39 <ArtForz> it most likely will
677 2011-04-23 10:34:04 * jaromil marks 9 may on the calendar
678 2011-04-23 10:34:26 <ArtForz> my guess is ~105k or so
679 2011-04-23 10:34:53 * sipa puts todo "buy btc on may 8th"
680 2011-04-23 10:35:28 <anarchyx> is there a difficulty history graph online?
681 2011-04-23 10:35:51 <ArtForz> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-ever.png
682 2011-04-23 10:36:04 <ArtForz> log scale ftw
683 2011-04-23 10:36:13 <mtrlt> yep
684 2011-04-23 10:36:40 <anarchyx> tnx :)
685 2011-04-23 10:36:47 <ArtForz> linear scale looks just weird: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-ever.png
686 2011-04-23 10:37:02 <jaromil> what is that down ramp on apr 11 ?
687 2011-04-23 10:37:10 <jaromil> i mean, can difficulty go down?
688 2011-04-23 10:37:13 <ArtForz> yup
689 2011-04-23 10:37:19 <sipa> it did
690 2011-04-23 10:37:20 <sipa> twice
691 2011-04-23 10:37:21 <ArtForz> it did, twice
692 2011-04-23 10:37:27 <ArtForz> and that one was MM leaving
693 2011-04-23 10:37:31 <jaromil> how comes?!
694 2011-04-23 10:37:33 <jaromil> ah
695 2011-04-23 10:37:37 <jaromil> yea genjix told me the story
696 2011-04-23 10:38:01 <jaromil> ahah, twice in 2 years and always in april
697 2011-04-23 10:38:28 <anarchyx> Does this riser card work with 6990? or should I get another one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150594231828&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
698 2011-04-23 10:38:35 * jaromil giggles about linking the event to 6 april revolts
699 2011-04-23 10:38:39 <anarchyx> riser cable*
700 2011-04-23 10:38:55 <ArtForz> "maybe"
701 2011-04-23 10:38:59 robblesz has joined
702 2011-04-23 10:39:14 <anarchyx> doesnt sound too convincing :)
703 2011-04-23 10:39:47 <ArtForz> http://www.shopsintech.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_32&products_id=463
704 2011-04-23 10:40:05 <anarchyx> thats guaranteed?
705 2011-04-23 10:40:11 <ArtForz> nope
706 2011-04-23 10:40:12 <anarchyx> better quality?
707 2011-04-23 10:40:14 <ArtForz> thats the same cable
708 2011-04-23 10:40:18 <ArtForz> sintech is the mfg
709 2011-04-23 10:40:18 <anarchyx> lol
710 2011-04-23 10:40:21 <anarchyx> ok :)
711 2011-04-23 10:40:26 <anarchyx> tnx much cheaper
712 2011-04-23 10:40:35 <ArtForz> better one is http://www.shopsintech.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_32&products_id=459
713 2011-04-23 10:40:47 <ArtForz> thats a 1:1 clone of adex pe-flex16
714 2011-04-23 10:40:53 Warlord has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
715 2011-04-23 10:41:03 <anarchyx> 15 cm.. not bad
716 2011-04-23 10:41:03 <ArtForz> running a dozen of those at gen2 speed without problems
717 2011-04-23 10:41:17 <ArtForz> thats kidna misleading
718 2011-04-23 10:41:29 <ArtForz> it's ~6" including PCBs
719 2011-04-23 10:41:39 <ArtForz> the cable is 4.1"
720 2011-04-23 10:41:44 sethsethseth has joined
721 2011-04-23 10:41:52 <ArtForz> at least mine are
722 2011-04-23 10:42:17 <ArtForz> well, except one thats 4.3", guess someone at the plant felt generous
723 2011-04-23 10:43:13 sethsethseth___ has joined
724 2011-04-23 10:43:33 <ArtForz> direct order from china, had one bad cable out of a dozen
725 2011-04-23 10:43:36 <genjix> hey sethsethseth___
726 2011-04-23 10:43:50 sethsethseth__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
727 2011-04-23 10:45:04 <jaromil> Diablo-D3: speaking of tv check this mod out for more chinese channels lol http://wdtvforum.com/main/index.php?topic=8630.0
728 2011-04-23 10:45:11 <jaromil> someone just posted it on wdlxtv
729 2011-04-23 10:45:11 <anarchyx> lol@generous
730 2011-04-23 10:45:31 TheAncientGoat has joined
731 2011-04-23 10:45:57 <anarchyx> i wonna try like 5 6990's on an asus p6t7 but i dont know if its gonna work
732 2011-04-23 10:46:13 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
733 2011-04-23 10:46:24 <ArtForz> iirc mrb tried 5 5970s w/ linux - no go
734 2011-04-23 10:46:31 <Diablo-D3> fffffchina
735 2011-04-23 10:46:44 <anarchyx> 4 seems like a limit
736 2011-04-23 10:46:52 <ArtForz> http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=46
737 2011-04-23 10:47:12 <Diablo-D3> jaromil: you sure you have the right url?
738 2011-04-23 10:47:19 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
739 2011-04-23 10:47:28 <Diablo-D3> btw, yes, 8 gpus does seem to be the absolute maximum
740 2011-04-23 10:47:52 <genjix> sethsethseth___: yo
741 2011-04-23 10:47:56 <jaromil> Diablo-D3: yep that's the url, it looks a pretty standard sw proj. but then look at screenshots :D
742 2011-04-23 10:48:02 <anarchyx> did you see this one: http://fastra2.ua.ac.be/?page_id=214
743 2011-04-23 10:48:37 <Diablo-D3> anarchyx: huh
744 2011-04-23 10:48:44 <Diablo-D3> that sounds exactly like the ia32 kernel 4-5 gpus max bug
745 2011-04-23 10:48:52 <ArtForz> so... nvidia driver can handle more gpus
746 2011-04-23 10:49:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no
747 2011-04-23 10:49:07 <Diablo-D3> it means they're hitting address space limits
748 2011-04-23 10:49:13 <ArtForz> and yeah, that bios limit is a 32 bit addr space problem
749 2011-04-23 10:49:22 <Diablo-D3> its not like you can actually use that many
750 2011-04-23 10:49:26 <Diablo-D3> if you try to SLI all of them
751 2011-04-23 10:49:29 <ArtForz> because their stupid bios tried to map *all* VGA adapters
752 2011-04-23 10:49:30 <Diablo-D3> you'll get about 0.75x performance
753 2011-04-23 10:50:16 <ArtForz> btw, mechanical design of fastra2 = fail
754 2011-04-23 10:50:31 <anarchyx> yeah lol
755 2011-04-23 10:51:31 <ArtForz> too tighly spaced cards, "airflow? what airflow" sheetmetal holder, 3 aux PSUs model "chinese firecracker"
756 2011-04-23 10:51:51 <Diablo-D3> bwhahaha
757 2011-04-23 10:52:14 <Diablo-D3> we donn need no stinkin airflow
758 2011-04-23 10:53:00 <ArtForz> in the video they have a desk fan pointed at their protoype to keep it from overheating ...
759 2011-04-23 10:53:24 <anarchyx> it seems like they gave up on it too
760 2011-04-23 10:53:30 <anarchyx> no more updates
761 2011-04-23 10:54:31 <anarchyx> when i see those gpu's sitting on top of eachohter without spacing i get a heart attack
762 2011-04-23 10:54:32 <ArtForz> and winner for gpu stuffing is dell
763 2011-04-23 10:54:41 <ArtForz> http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/poweredge-c410x/pd
764 2011-04-23 10:54:53 <Diablo-D3> OVER NINE THOUSAND... hash/sec.
765 2011-04-23 10:54:56 <ArtForz> 16 tesla 2050s in 3u
766 2011-04-23 10:55:06 noagendamarket has joined
767 2011-04-23 10:55:06 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah but
768 2011-04-23 10:55:17 <Diablo-D3> its air forced
769 2011-04-23 10:55:25 <genjix> jaromil: btw did you deliver the message? how did it go?
770 2011-04-23 10:55:31 <ArtForz> ?
771 2011-04-23 10:55:32 <Diablo-D3> high speed fans and the heatsinks they use are rather dense finned
772 2011-04-23 10:55:34 <jaromil> genjix: not yet, will do tomorrow
773 2011-04-23 10:55:52 <genjix> kthx :)
774 2011-04-23 10:55:56 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
775 2011-04-23 10:56:00 <ArtForz> actually their passive heatsinks are rather widely spaced for forced convection heatisnk
776 2011-04-23 10:56:20 peck has joined
777 2011-04-23 10:56:22 <jaromil> genjix: today i need go bike ride with gf and picnic as promised
778 2011-04-23 10:56:23 <Diablo-D3> depends how you define dense finned
779 2011-04-23 10:56:26 <anarchyx> wouldnt you save more $$ spacing them over 6U's and spending less on cooling/overheating?
780 2011-04-23 10:56:39 <ArtForz> generally... no
781 2011-04-23 10:56:43 <jaromil> as soon as i stop drooling on teraflops and finish the next pull request
782 2011-04-23 10:56:53 <anarchyx> power is a premium nowadays, you can be glad you can still fill a rack without hitting over 64 amps
783 2011-04-23 10:56:55 <Diablo-D3> anarchyx: no... you'd save money by getting the box used on ebay, throwing out the nvidia cards, and throwing in radeons
784 2011-04-23 10:56:56 * Diablo-D3 runs
785 2011-04-23 10:57:08 <anarchyx> :P
786 2011-04-23 10:57:16 <genjix> jaromil: np, you're doing me the favour :p
787 2011-04-23 10:57:29 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: actually theres a very similar box with firestreams
788 2011-04-23 10:57:41 <ArtForz> which effectively are 5870s
789 2011-04-23 10:57:41 <Diablo-D3> dont see the point really
790 2011-04-23 10:57:54 <anarchyx> which box is it?
791 2011-04-23 10:58:43 <ArtForz> can't find the link right now
792 2011-04-23 10:59:47 <anarchyx> Qualified for NVIDIA® M1060 and M2050 cards, the PowerEdge C410x can accommodate any comparable PCIe card, including AMD ATIâ¢, so you can program using Cuda⢠or OpenCLâ¢.
793 2011-04-23 11:00:01 <anarchyx> you order it empty and stuff it with 6990s?
794 2011-04-23 11:00:14 <ArtForz> wont work, power/length limit
795 2011-04-23 11:00:34 <Diablo-D3> http://pastebin.com/j1iZ5tgk
796 2011-04-23 11:00:41 <Diablo-D3> another fine time to bring up my math
797 2011-04-23 11:01:08 <ArtForz> yep
798 2011-04-23 11:01:10 <gjs278> you're looking to buy a 6970?
799 2011-04-23 11:01:12 RazielZ has joined
800 2011-04-23 11:01:22 <ArtForz> for raw compute power, ati consumer stuff is cheapest
801 2011-04-23 11:01:40 <ArtForz> as usual, "enterprise" = 1000% markup
802 2011-04-23 11:02:07 <anarchyx> true
803 2011-04-23 11:02:07 <jaromil> k
804 2011-04-23 11:02:36 <gjs278> where do 5970's fit in that chart? better or worse off for performance to power than the 6970
805 2011-04-23 11:02:47 <Diablo-D3> better
806 2011-04-23 11:02:51 <topi`> jaromil: have a good bike trip, yesterday we went to katwijk an zee
807 2011-04-23 11:02:57 <ArtForz> 5970s pwn
808 2011-04-23 11:03:01 <gjs278> ok
809 2011-04-23 11:03:06 <Diablo-D3> 5970s are the most efficient
810 2011-04-23 11:03:10 <gjs278> because people on [h]ardforum are all selling theirs
811 2011-04-23 11:03:12 <Diablo-D3> almost tying with 5870s and 5850s
812 2011-04-23 11:03:14 <gjs278> for like 380
813 2011-04-23 11:03:18 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: they just game though
814 2011-04-23 11:03:21 <gjs278> yeah
815 2011-04-23 11:03:34 <gjs278> they don't understand how many stream processors they are selling for their fps
816 2011-04-23 11:03:44 <topi`> i wonder why the 5870's are faster than the 6970's? obviously the 6970 has only 1120 units, but ...
817 2011-04-23 11:03:49 <gjs278> I've been checking their trade forum everyday
818 2011-04-23 11:04:03 <gjs278> I missed some guy selling a reference for 375
819 2011-04-23 11:04:07 <gjs278> by like two hours
820 2011-04-23 11:04:10 <ArtForz> because 6970 has less shaders and more fixed hardware
821 2011-04-23 11:04:21 <topi`> darn
822 2011-04-23 11:04:27 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: no
823 2011-04-23 11:04:35 <ArtForz> yes
824 2011-04-23 11:04:41 <Diablo-D3> it has a similar number of shaders, its just vliw4
825 2011-04-23 11:04:52 <Diablo-D3> I still blame the sdk for fucking up speeds
826 2011-04-23 11:05:03 <Diablo-D3> sdk 2.4 6970 and 5870 should perform rather similar to each other
827 2011-04-23 11:05:15 <anarchyx> 5970 vs 6990 whats the best?
828 2011-04-23 11:05:20 <topi`> Diablo-D3: so you have to use the newest sdk with the 6970?
829 2011-04-23 11:05:21 <anarchyx> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6081.0
830 2011-04-23 11:05:23 <Diablo-D3> anarchyx: thats the same question
831 2011-04-23 11:05:34 <Diablo-D3> anarchyx: 5970 is two 5870s, 6990 is two 6970s
832 2011-04-23 11:05:50 <anarchyx> right :)
833 2011-04-23 11:06:41 <ArtForz> 6990 is less power efficient, but OCs better
834 2011-04-23 11:07:03 <ArtForz> and will probably keep more resale value
835 2011-04-23 11:07:25 <ArtForz> 6990s pretty much run circles around 5970s for gaming
836 2011-04-23 11:07:44 <ArtForz> especially in quadfire
837 2011-04-23 11:08:02 <Diablo-D3> 6990s will fucking rape everything
838 2011-04-23 11:08:03 <Diablo-D3> and hey
839 2011-04-23 11:08:09 <Diablo-D3> its not like 69xx mining performance is poor
840 2011-04-23 11:08:12 <Diablo-D3> its actually rather good
841 2011-04-23 11:08:17 <Diablo-D3> its just no 58xx
842 2011-04-23 11:08:42 <ArtForz> well, about the same as 5970, just using more power
843 2011-04-23 11:08:49 <Diablo-D3> yeah
844 2011-04-23 11:08:53 <Diablo-D3> which is really a non-issue
845 2011-04-23 11:09:10 <Diablo-D3> 58xx using sdk 2.4 suffer just as bad imo
846 2011-04-23 11:09:18 <anarchyx> i guess scoring an old batch of 5970s very cheaply is still best $$-wise
847 2011-04-23 11:09:33 <Diablo-D3> anarchyx: if you can get them, yes
848 2011-04-23 11:09:38 <ArtForz> I still curse the beancounter at AMd that decided to unly put 3-phase VRMs on 5970s
849 2011-04-23 11:09:52 <gjs278> how old and how cheap would be good
850 2011-04-23 11:10:09 <gjs278> I hate how many revisions these damn cards all have
851 2011-04-23 11:10:15 <gjs278> can never tell what is what
852 2011-04-23 11:10:49 <ArtForz> reference 5970s only had one PCB layout
853 2011-04-23 11:11:15 <ArtForz> and 2 kinds of inductors in the VRM section (that onbe tripped up quite a few waterblock mfgs)
854 2011-04-23 11:12:24 <ArtForz> with the stock cooler and fully populated VRMs, 5970s could OC to > 950MHz core
855 2011-04-23 11:15:56 <ArtForz> no big surprise, as that woudl pretty much make em 5870x2s with slower memory
856 2011-04-23 11:16:58 <jaromil> jgarzik: i'm almost ready with another pull and good news: i've found a way to avoid the last modification to sourcecode necessary: VERSION in serialize.h can stay as it is
857 2011-04-23 11:28:04 xxxxxxx`brb is now known as xxxxxxx
858 2011-04-23 11:28:48 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
859 2011-04-23 11:33:48 gx9 has joined
860 2011-04-23 11:35:00 <noagendamarket> http://alfredpang.com/2011/04/magic-cards-bitcoins-and-john-law/ does he realise mt gox stands for magic the gathering ?
861 2011-04-23 11:35:03 <noagendamarket> lawl
862 2011-04-23 11:35:27 <genjix> noagendamarket: is that true?
863 2011-04-23 11:35:56 <noagendamarket> so Ive heard
864 2011-04-23 11:36:12 <noagendamarket> magic the gathering open xchange
865 2011-04-23 11:36:12 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
866 2011-04-23 11:36:20 <noagendamarket> or something
867 2011-04-23 11:38:41 <jaromil> wow!!
868 2011-04-23 11:38:49 <jaromil> that *is* kewl
869 2011-04-23 11:39:27 <jaromil> genjix: u play? i have a couple of unopened theme packs bought last year, plus 3 custom decks i use :D
870 2011-04-23 11:39:43 <genjix> never played. might try it
871 2011-04-23 11:41:18 <jaromil> i have latest rise of eldrazi
872 2011-04-23 11:41:22 <jaromil> didn't updated after that
873 2011-04-23 11:41:29 <genjix> ic
874 2011-04-23 11:42:19 <jaromil> this is the scene in a'dam http://magicminds.nl/
875 2011-04-23 11:42:36 <jaromil> they are phun to play with, i've been in a couple of tournaments and free games
876 2011-04-23 11:44:26 <jaromil> *idea* propose them to play with btc
877 2011-04-23 11:44:50 <genjix> losing proposition for me :p
878 2011-04-23 11:45:04 <Diablo-D3> man
879 2011-04-23 11:45:10 <Diablo-D3> I havent played mtg for like a decade
880 2011-04-23 11:45:20 <jaromil> Diablo-D3: me too i was out for a decade
881 2011-04-23 11:45:32 <jaromil> have a look at the last decks, froma gameplay they got much better
882 2011-04-23 11:45:40 <genjix> you sound like war veterans
883 2011-04-23 11:45:42 <jaromil> i was dragged back in by another coder friend
884 2011-04-23 11:45:51 <Diablo-D3> meh not really my thing anymore
885 2011-04-23 11:46:11 <jaromil> now i stopped but if someone that plays passes by is phun
886 2011-04-23 11:46:11 <genjix> bitcoin mtg tournament
887 2011-04-23 11:46:22 <jaromil> but ok i'm usually settling on chess
888 2011-04-23 11:48:09 <jaromil> Diablo-D3: u play RTS?
889 2011-04-23 11:50:25 <Diablo-D3> yes
890 2011-04-23 11:50:56 <jaromil> taspring? :)
891 2011-04-23 11:51:13 <Diablo-D3> its just called spring now
892 2011-04-23 11:51:30 * jaromil XXX clan (all upcase)
893 2011-04-23 11:51:38 <Diablo-D3> never seen any of you.
894 2011-04-23 11:51:55 MartianW has joined
895 2011-04-23 11:52:06 MartianW has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
896 2011-04-23 11:52:14 pirrr has joined
897 2011-04-23 11:52:31 <jaromil> i've been out in the past months, i need more cpu power
898 2011-04-23 11:52:49 <Diablo-D3> which mod do you play?
899 2011-04-23 11:52:52 <jaromil> BA
900 2011-04-23 11:53:00 <Diablo-D3> huh, I wonder why Ive never seen you on
901 2011-04-23 11:53:07 <jaromil> ack, which yours?
902 2011-04-23 11:53:21 <Diablo-D3> I go by the same nick on spring
903 2011-04-23 11:53:23 <jaromil> i tried others but i'm sticking to BA DSD
904 2011-04-23 11:53:28 <Diablo-D3> lol fucking DSD
905 2011-04-23 11:53:32 <jaromil> AHAHAH
906 2011-04-23 11:53:36 <jaromil> i LOVE DSD
907 2011-04-23 11:53:40 <Diablo-D3> techtechtechtechtechtech LOLCANNON
908 2011-04-23 11:53:46 <jaromil> NUKE
909 2011-04-23 11:54:09 <Diablo-D3> 5 advfus? NOT ENOUGH
910 2011-04-23 11:54:34 <jaromil> man. i have some save games. EPIC
911 2011-04-23 11:54:53 <pirrr> Hi guys, are you also in the #bitcoin -channel? I just asked a question there :)
912 2011-04-23 11:55:04 <Diablo-D3> no one uses the #bitcoin channel
913 2011-04-23 11:55:27 <pirrr> Let's ask here then :)
914 2011-04-23 11:55:29 <pirrr> <pirrr> Hello. I have a question: what if the LFnet IRC goes down? Will peer-finding get impossible?
915 2011-04-23 11:55:35 <topi`> genjix: it seems britcoin has already risen to second place in volume right after mt.gox... congrats :)
916 2011-04-23 11:55:46 <Diablo-D3> pirrr: there are talks about removing the IRC code altogether
917 2011-04-23 11:55:47 * jaromil bored waiting compilation. haz to get more cpu
918 2011-04-23 11:55:57 <topi`> pirrr: then peers will be found by a list of well-known nodes
919 2011-04-23 11:56:01 <topi`> (their ip addresse)
920 2011-04-23 11:56:11 <Diablo-D3> pirrr: the client ships with a list of like 200 permi-nodes
921 2011-04-23 11:56:36 <topi`> jaromil: my dualcore ARM is even slower at compiling ;)
922 2011-04-23 11:56:38 <pirrr> Is that the way it will work in the future? Without the IRC, and with the list?
923 2011-04-23 11:56:45 danlucraft has joined
924 2011-04-23 11:56:48 <Diablo-D3> pirrr: yeah most likely
925 2011-04-23 11:57:12 <pirrr> Interesting :). The IRC seemed like a weak link to me...
926 2011-04-23 11:57:40 <jaromil> once upon a time, the IRC is where it all started
927 2011-04-23 11:58:00 <pirrr> As more things on the internet jaromil ;)
928 2011-04-23 11:58:02 FellowTraveler has joined
929 2011-04-23 11:58:07 <pirrr> How is development going anyway? I have no idea how much people are working on the project :)
930 2011-04-23 11:59:06 <sipa> pirrr: of the default client? on github
931 2011-04-23 12:02:56 <pirrr> I see :). I can't seem to find a changelog...
932 2011-04-23 12:03:52 <pirrr> And I'd like to know what the best way is to get bitcoins from my Dutch bank account, but that might not be a #*-dev-question ;)
933 2011-04-23 12:03:53 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/master :D
934 2011-04-23 12:04:22 <sipa> pirrr: either transfer euro's via sepa transfer to mtgox, and buy them there, or in otc
935 2011-04-23 12:05:15 berkes has joined
936 2011-04-23 12:05:29 <pirrr> I'll look into that, thanks
937 2011-04-23 12:05:48 <jaromil> i still think the best way to have bitcoin is to accept btc payments for whatever you do
938 2011-04-23 12:06:04 <topi`> true that :) so far, I've just received a few donations
939 2011-04-23 12:06:19 <pirrr> I do :).
940 2011-04-23 12:06:44 <jaromil> make
941 2011-04-23 12:06:45 <jaromil> ops
942 2011-04-23 12:07:19 <pirrr> Some questions about the wallet: (how) do you backup the file? Encryption? And if I have an old version of my wallet and put it back in my bitcoin installation, what will happen?
943 2011-04-23 12:07:58 <jaromil> pirrr: prepare for some headache there. its where most urgent dev is needed imho
944 2011-04-23 12:09:02 <jaromil> read: berkeley db sucks
945 2011-04-23 12:09:20 <pirrr> Where can I find background information on that topic? :)
946 2011-04-23 12:09:44 stagas has joined
947 2011-04-23 12:10:12 <stagas> hello
948 2011-04-23 12:10:17 <jaromil> documentation lacks. best bet come into a chan and throw some cash on the table for someone to introduce you... :D
949 2011-04-23 12:10:38 <jaromil> we also organized a presentation workshop in amsterdam 2 weeks ago... might find more around
950 2011-04-23 12:11:28 <pirrr> Sounds good, that might also be a perfect way to get bitcoins 'over the counter'
951 2011-04-23 12:11:38 <sipa> actually, it should just work (as of 0.3.21)
952 2011-04-23 12:11:40 <stagas> I have a silly question maybe, but since there can only be 21m coins max, doesn't that only 21m people can own 1 coin at a time?
953 2011-04-23 12:11:56 <sipa> stagas: they can be divided up to 8 places after the decimal point
954 2011-04-23 12:11:56 <FellowTraveler> announcement: https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Moneychanger
955 2011-04-23 12:12:22 <jaromil> lol nice pic
956 2011-04-23 12:12:27 <stagas> sipa: oh :)
957 2011-04-23 12:12:39 <sipa> pirrr: you can just backup wallet.dat, plug it into another installation, and it should work
958 2011-04-23 12:12:56 <sacarlson> stagas: well the real number of coins is a 64bit number so each coin is like 1million units in todays market
959 2011-04-23 12:13:04 <pirrr> stagas, I just heard a good pod/netcast on bitcoin: http://goo.gl/djyGQ . It was about many things that seem a problem, like the ones you just mentioned.
960 2011-04-23 12:13:51 <stagas> yeah every article seems to point out that there are going to be 21m coins, noone mentions that bit
961 2011-04-23 12:14:10 <jaromil> sipa: won't you tell him about libdb incompat between 4.6 and 4.8? ]:>
962 2011-04-23 12:14:12 <stagas> then I guess they're enough for everyone :P
963 2011-04-23 12:14:14 <pirrr> sipa, I already backup wallet.dat indeed. Should I do this after every transaction? Do you have any experience in that happens if I miss the last 2 or 3 transactions? :)
964 2011-04-23 12:14:29 <sacarlson> but I was just running some tests were I manipulated the number of max_money and seems I can make the number biger after I create the chain
965 2011-04-23 12:14:34 <sipa> pirrr: no, it has 100 future keys already
966 2011-04-23 12:14:53 <sipa> pirrr: so if you restore a wallet backup that is hundred transactions old, it should work too
967 2011-04-23 12:15:06 <sipa> (assuming one new key is used for each transaction, which is not necessarily true)
968 2011-04-23 12:15:37 <sipa> jaromil: all official builds use db 4.7, afaik
969 2011-04-23 12:15:57 <sipa> if you compare the USD M2 supply of pennies with bitcoin microcents, they're approximately equal
970 2011-04-23 12:16:37 <jaromil> sipa: so until 4.10 comes out we are safe.... :)
971 2011-04-23 12:16:46 <sipa> ?
972 2011-04-23 12:16:48 <jaromil> anyway i've seen the backup api call
973 2011-04-23 12:17:56 <jaromil> sipa: just teasing
974 2011-04-23 12:18:12 <jaromil> anyway i'm looking fwd to sqlite
975 2011-04-23 12:19:02 ezl has joined
976 2011-04-23 12:19:50 <pirrr> Meh, I should have bought a lot of bitcoins a month ago... :P
977 2011-04-23 12:20:27 <ezl> ;;bc,mtgox
978 2011-04-23 12:20:29 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.45,"low":1.2504,"vol":42865,"buy":1.38,"sell":1.3956,"last":1.38}}
979 2011-04-23 12:20:34 <ezl> pirrr not too late!
980 2011-04-23 12:26:10 <sacarlson> wow at that price my mtgox transaction must have sold
981 2011-04-23 12:27:43 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
982 2011-04-23 12:33:47 aksoo has joined
983 2011-04-23 12:35:06 <jaromil> k, done https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/180
984 2011-04-23 12:36:13 xxxxxxx is now known as xxxxxxx`brb
985 2011-04-23 12:37:01 * jaromil off to a bike ride/bbq - bbl
986 2011-04-23 12:40:24 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
987 2011-04-23 12:40:26 <gribble> Current Blocks: 119760 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 1199 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 15 hours, 10 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 100835.85941351
988 2011-04-23 12:41:09 <pirrr> Thanks for all info! Bye
989 2011-04-23 12:41:12 pirrr has quit (Quit: Leaving)
990 2011-04-23 12:43:02 hachiya has joined
991 2011-04-23 12:44:25 joepie91 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
992 2011-04-23 12:45:06 TD has joined
993 2011-04-23 12:45:20 joepie91 has joined
994 2011-04-23 12:51:56 <anarchyx> whats a good 1500W or more power supply?
995 2011-04-23 12:52:08 <anarchyx> with support for 4x6990 ?
996 2011-04-23 12:53:33 <anarchyx> SilverStone Strider ST1500?
997 2011-04-23 12:53:51 <[Noodles]> guess it'll need more, doesnt it? isn't the 6990 ~375W?
998 2011-04-23 12:54:15 <Diablo-D3> 300
999 2011-04-23 12:54:32 <anarchyx> according to this:
1000 2011-04-23 12:54:33 <[Noodles]> but what about that overclock-switch?
1001 2011-04-23 12:54:33 <anarchyx> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5444.msg83507#msg83507
1002 2011-04-23 12:54:41 <anarchyx> HD 6990 (@sw2, 830MHz, default): 683 Mhash/s, 346 W, 1.97 Mhash/s/W
1003 2011-04-23 12:55:24 <[Noodles]> well, 4*350 is still 1400, a 1500W PSU might be a bit stressed
1004 2011-04-23 12:55:39 <[Noodles]> why not just use 2 smaler PSUs? might even be cheaper
1005 2011-04-23 12:55:41 <Diablo-D3> I suspect those numbers are wrong
1006 2011-04-23 12:55:57 <ArtForz> those look right
1007 2011-04-23 12:56:38 <anarchyx> ArtForz: you think that PSU will suffice?
1008 2011-04-23 12:56:41 <anarchyx> or do you know anything better
1009 2011-04-23 12:56:52 <ArtForz> I personally wouldnt risk it
1010 2011-04-23 12:57:03 <anarchyx> which one do you recommend?
1011 2011-04-23 12:57:35 <ArtForz> for quad 6990... probably 2 antec or corsair 1kWs
1012 2011-04-23 12:57:47 occam has joined
1013 2011-04-23 12:58:13 <ArtForz> unless you want cheap, then superflower or one of its dozen relabels
1014 2011-04-23 12:58:55 <anarchyx> how do you power the simultaneously? just time it right and turn them on at the same time?
1015 2011-04-23 12:59:08 <ArtForz> master-slave atx adapter
1016 2011-04-23 12:59:35 <anarchyx> tnx ill check it :)
1017 2011-04-23 13:00:02 <ArtForz> or just bridge the 2nd PSUs PS_ON, PCIe spec requires cards to allow that
1018 2011-04-23 13:00:39 <ArtForz> they have to allow power sequencing in any order, so having the aux connectors powered while slot +12 is off is perfectly fine
1019 2011-04-23 13:01:58 <anarchyx> so you can basically turn on the power of the second PSU that only powers the aux connectors of the cards, and then turn on the main one?
1020 2011-04-23 13:02:02 <ArtForz> yep
1021 2011-04-23 13:02:05 <anarchyx> cool..
1022 2011-04-23 13:02:44 <ArtForz> on my later quad boxes I just used a piece of AWG26 to connect PS_ON to PS_ON
1023 2011-04-23 13:03:04 <ArtForz> pretty easy if you have a mini-fit pin extractor
1024 2011-04-23 13:03:43 <anarchyx> if you turn on the main PSU first and then PSU2 would it damage the card?
1025 2011-04-23 13:03:48 <ArtForz> nope
1026 2011-04-23 13:04:01 <ArtForz> box simply won't boot and the card will beep at you as it has no aux power
1027 2011-04-23 13:04:11 <ArtForz> same thing as if you didnt connect the aux connectors
1028 2011-04-23 13:04:29 <anarchyx> makes sense
1029 2011-04-23 13:04:49 <ArtForz> oh, and watch out the for the draw from mobo
1030 2011-04-23 13:05:04 <ArtForz> lots of boards supply the PCIe slots +12 from the 24pin alone
1031 2011-04-23 13:05:10 <ArtForz> which only has 2 12V pins
1032 2011-04-23 13:06:01 <ArtForz> with 4 slots and 75W allowed each thats a possible 12.5A over each of them...
1033 2011-04-23 13:06:17 <ArtForz> iirc they're rated for 7A or so
1034 2011-04-23 13:07:01 <occam> hi. does anyone have a headless .deb for ARM somewhere?
1035 2011-04-23 13:07:02 <ArtForz> thats why a lot of boards have additional 5.25" molexes or PCIe aux connectors on the board for the PCIe slot 12V
1036 2011-04-23 13:07:37 <ArtForz> luckly no card draws the full allowed 75W from slot
1037 2011-04-23 13:07:47 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: well
1038 2011-04-23 13:07:51 <ArtForz> but with quad 5970s or 6990s things can get quite toasty
1039 2011-04-23 13:07:53 <Diablo-D3> some of them use 8 pin CPU headers too
1040 2011-04-23 13:08:04 <ArtForz> yep
1041 2011-04-23 13:08:09 <Diablo-D3> instead of just the 4 pin P4
1042 2011-04-23 13:08:32 <ArtForz> ?
1043 2011-04-23 13:09:41 <ArtForz> iirc only board that has another P4/P8 for PCIe is one of the crazy 7 or 8 x16 slot boards
1044 2011-04-23 13:10:12 <Diablo-D3> lol
1045 2011-04-23 13:10:27 <Diablo-D3> well, plugging in a PCI-E plug is the same shit
1046 2011-04-23 13:10:44 <ArtForz> yup
1047 2011-04-23 13:10:48 <Diablo-D3> they're all the same kind of plug with varying keyings
1048 2011-04-23 13:10:58 <ArtForz> not quite
1049 2011-04-23 13:11:25 <ArtForz> ATX, P4 and PCIe 6pin only have 7A rated contacts
1050 2011-04-23 13:11:33 <ArtForz> PCIe 8pin has 13A rated contacts
1051 2011-04-23 13:11:37 <stagas> I have another newb question: if I buy like 100 bitcoins now, and keep them for 15 years I'm going to be rich when the scarcity kicks in?
1052 2011-04-23 13:11:42 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: assuming its minspec
1053 2011-04-23 13:11:46 <ArtForz> EPS... 7A too
1054 2011-04-23 13:11:48 <Diablo-D3> its cheaper to just make it all the same
1055 2011-04-23 13:11:51 <ArtForz> they generally are
1056 2011-04-23 13:12:03 <Diablo-D3> stagas: theoretically yes
1057 2011-04-23 13:12:15 <Diablo-D3> stagas: but scarcity kicked in from the first moment
1058 2011-04-23 13:12:15 <ArtForz> if you have a pin extractor it's pretty easy to check
1059 2011-04-23 13:12:20 <Diablo-D3> thats the entire point of it
1060 2011-04-23 13:12:31 <ArtForz> 7A females only have 2 contact springs, 13As have 4
1061 2011-04-23 13:12:52 <Diablo-D3> stagas: bitcoin could also become worthless tommorow
1062 2011-04-23 13:12:58 <lfm_> stagas: no one can really know that
1063 2011-04-23 13:13:24 <Diablo-D3> stagas: but, generally, barring any stupid shit between now and then, btc should be worth about $1000
1064 2011-04-23 13:13:37 <Diablo-D3> and, given a 15 year time frame, infinite stupid shit can happen
1065 2011-04-23 13:14:18 <stagas> what prevents another network to run bitcoin and call it foocoin and generate everything from 0 again?
1066 2011-04-23 13:14:22 <ArtForz> also on that silverstone... 7 25A +12 rails
1067 2011-04-23 13:14:38 <Diablo-D3> stagas: nothing
1068 2011-04-23 13:14:41 <ArtForz> = lots of fun trying to properly distribute shit over rails
1069 2011-04-23 13:14:42 <Diablo-D3> infact that probably should be done
1070 2011-04-23 13:14:51 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1071 2011-04-23 13:14:54 <Diablo-D3> silverstone == shit
1072 2011-04-23 13:15:00 <Diablo-D3> 1 12v rail > *
1073 2011-04-23 13:15:08 <lfm_> stagas: it is already happening, people are making other currencies based on bitcoin with other rules
1074 2011-04-23 13:15:20 <ArtForz> well, multirail done right would work, but no one does that
1075 2011-04-23 13:15:47 <sipa> stagas: actually, there is even one such network supported by the default client, the testnet
1076 2011-04-23 13:15:53 <ArtForz> and most modular multi-rail PSUs arent multi-rail. at all.
1077 2011-04-23 13:16:30 <ArtForz> with everything bussed together on the modular connector PCB
1078 2011-04-23 13:16:53 <stagas> sipa: and you buy testcoins? :D
1079 2011-04-23 13:17:03 gx9 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1080 2011-04-23 13:18:15 <B0g4r7> wasn't testnet reset a while back?
1081 2011-04-23 13:18:33 <sipa> stagas: in the past they have actually been traded, yes
1082 2011-04-23 13:18:46 <sipa> since the reset in 0.3.20, i believe they haven't
1083 2011-04-23 13:18:49 <lfm_> B0g4r7: ya
1084 2011-04-23 13:19:35 occam has left ()
1085 2011-04-23 13:19:42 <lfm_> B0g4r7: you can still run bitcoin v0.3.19 if you want to play with the old testnet coins
1086 2011-04-23 13:20:02 stamit has joined
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1088 2011-04-23 13:21:07 <jaromil> what people think about inclusion of more documentation into the source distribution?
1089 2011-04-23 13:22:04 <jaromil> as in: FAQ and technical whitepaper (pdf by nakamoto)?
1090 2011-04-23 13:23:00 <stamit> good
1091 2011-04-23 13:23:25 <lfm_> thats kinda borderline for me. the whitepaper could become dated and even misleading with real world developments
1092 2011-04-23 13:24:13 <mrb_> 06:10 < stagas> what prevents another network to run bitcoin and call it foocoin and generate everything from 0 again?
1093 2011-04-23 13:24:18 <lfm_> theyre pretty easy to find now, not sure they need to be bundled
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1095 2011-04-23 13:24:59 <mrb_> stagas: personally I think this is Bitcoin's biggest risk. It is so well-designed, that it is likely to be copied, and that copy may become more popular due to minor differences
1096 2011-04-23 13:25:21 <mrb_> (eg. what if Google came with their own version, and added support for it in Google Checkout?)
1097 2011-04-23 13:25:38 <lfm_> the original has a big advantage tho it seems, the test of time
1098 2011-04-23 13:26:14 <noagendamarket> because that is evil :)
1099 2011-04-23 13:27:02 <noagendamarket> much better karma for them to accept bitcvoins themselves
1100 2011-04-23 13:27:09 <noagendamarket> *bitcoins
1101 2011-04-23 13:27:39 Zarutian has joined
1102 2011-04-23 13:28:22 <sipa> lfm_: the whitepaper doesn't say that much about the actual implementation, actually
1103 2011-04-23 13:28:22 <stamit> it would be interesting to see what the exchange rate between the two bitcoins would be
1104 2011-04-23 13:29:24 <noagendamarket> I wonder what google would pay to hire all the top bitcoin developers ?
1105 2011-04-23 13:29:39 <stamit> not money:)
1106 2011-04-23 13:29:56 <noagendamarket> heh
1107 2011-04-23 13:30:00 <sipa> 10000 republican credits per hour
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1113 2011-04-23 13:45:33 <sacarlson> ok after the creation of a new chain with max_money = 1000 * COIN , after creation I am able to change the size down to max_money = 50 * COIN before I get an error
1114 2011-04-23 13:45:56 <sacarlson> I'm not sure what the min 50 comes from
1115 2011-04-23 13:48:16 <programmes> whats the best pooled mining server i can use ? pundipoop one?
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1122 2011-04-23 14:00:57 <devon_hillard> every time the media talks about bitcoin, BTCs rise a little
1123 2011-04-23 14:01:01 danlucraft1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1124 2011-04-23 14:01:02 <devon_hillard> or a lot
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1127 2011-04-23 14:08:12 <mrb_> 06:10 < stagas> what prevents another network to run bitcoin and call it foocoin and generate everything from 0 again?
1128 2011-04-23 14:08:26 <mrb_> oops
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1133 2011-04-23 14:20:19 <programe> the source code for the cooperative pool mining server is out there?
1134 2011-04-23 14:20:21 Pander has joined
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1138 2011-04-23 14:21:43 <[Noodles]> programe: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3493.0
1139 2011-04-23 14:22:02 <Pander> hi all, anyone online with thourough knowledge of the structure in the merkle database?
1140 2011-04-23 14:22:03 redMBA has joined
1141 2011-04-23 14:22:11 <sipa> Pander: maybe
1142 2011-04-23 14:22:46 <programe> so the cooperative pool mining server is closed source?
1143 2011-04-23 14:22:58 <[Noodles]> which one?
1144 2011-04-23 14:23:18 <Pander> inside transactions there is txIn and txOut, correct?
1145 2011-04-23 14:23:22 <[Noodles]> there is no 'one pool-code'
1146 2011-04-23 14:23:30 sosborn has joined
1147 2011-04-23 14:23:42 <sipa> Pander: yes, transactions have inputs and outputs
1148 2011-04-23 14:23:51 <programe> noodless, what do you mean?
1149 2011-04-23 14:24:00 <ArtForz> one pool to rule them all?
1150 2011-04-23 14:24:12 <[Noodles]> i'm asking which server you are talking about
1151 2011-04-23 14:24:20 <Pander> inside txOut one can have multiple objects, what are those?
1152 2011-04-23 14:24:35 <programe> i want to setup a pool like http://mining.bitcoin.cz
1153 2011-04-23 14:24:38 <ArtForz> most popular pools are closed source
1154 2011-04-23 14:24:40 <Pander> each has a scriptPubKey and value, are those the actual transactions?
1155 2011-04-23 14:24:45 <programe> what server software does it uses? puddipop miner?
1156 2011-04-23 14:24:46 <[Noodles]> aha, a pool *like* that
1157 2011-04-23 14:24:52 <ArtForz> there is open source pool software, juts look in the mining forum
1158 2011-04-23 14:24:58 <[Noodles]> no, that code isn't open source, nor public
1159 2011-04-23 14:25:00 <sipa> Pander: those are the transaction outputs
1160 2011-04-23 14:25:08 <programe> yes i just found puddipop miner
1161 2011-04-23 14:25:09 anarchyx has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1162 2011-04-23 14:25:17 <ArtForz> iitc theres another one
1163 2011-04-23 14:25:18 <[Noodles]> but i gave you a link to some open pool-code, check that out
1164 2011-04-23 14:25:23 <sipa> Pander: the coins created by the transaction, so to speak
1165 2011-04-23 14:25:43 sethsethseth___ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1166 2011-04-23 14:25:45 <Pander> hmmm, not the sender -> receiver kind of transactions?
1167 2011-04-23 14:25:49 <programe> ArtForz: so only iitc and puddipop pool servers are open source?
1168 2011-04-23 14:26:08 <[Noodles]> what's iitc?
1169 2011-04-23 14:26:11 <sipa> Pander: a transaction in bitcoin 1) consumes coins 2) merges them together 3) splits it up again in new coins
1170 2011-04-23 14:26:30 <programe> i dont know, ArtForz said "iitc"
1171 2011-04-23 14:26:30 <sipa> each coin is marked with the address of who is allowed to spend it
1172 2011-04-23 14:26:33 <ArtForz> if i temember correctly :P
1173 2011-04-23 14:26:39 sethsethseth has joined
1174 2011-04-23 14:26:41 <ArtForz> plain old rypo
1175 2011-04-23 14:26:41 <[Noodles]> i see
1176 2011-04-23 14:26:58 <sipa> Pander: and each input contains data to prove one is the owner of the address listed in the previous output consumed
1177 2011-04-23 14:27:07 <Pander> and that is the scriptPubKey (the one allowed to spend?)
1178 2011-04-23 14:27:26 <sipa> scriptPubKey is the proof one owns a certain private key
1179 2011-04-23 14:27:30 <programe> ArtForz: so whats the best mining server software you recommend me to run?
1180 2011-04-23 14:27:32 anarchyx has joined
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1182 2011-04-23 14:27:44 <ArtForz> with enough hashrate... none
1183 2011-04-23 14:27:46 <programe> ArtForz: i want to run a pool server
1184 2011-04-23 14:28:04 sethsethseth____ has joined
1185 2011-04-23 14:28:05 <sipa> why?
1186 2011-04-23 14:28:16 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Peter Davies * r19bdea6f8372 pycoin/network.py: Correct mistake from previous commit http://tinyurl.com/3b6wuae
1187 2011-04-23 14:28:18 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Peter Davies * r8f8e580693c7 pycoin/ (msgs.py network.py protocol.py requestq.py): Useful develoment snapshot http://tinyurl.com/43zefh3
1188 2011-04-23 14:28:20 <[Noodles]> programe: jgarzik opened his pool code to the world (http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3493.0), you just have to check it out and build your server around it
1189 2011-04-23 14:28:20 <programe> ArtForz: or almost i want to get the best one to improve it myself, i have 14 years programming experience, i can improve it
1190 2011-04-23 14:28:39 <ArtForz> yep, jgarziks, that was the one
1191 2011-04-23 14:28:48 <ArtForz> pretty nice, just needs some polishing
1192 2011-04-23 14:28:51 <programe> i see
1193 2011-04-23 14:28:52 <Pander> sipa: can I get information such as: 'a transferred x to b'?
1194 2011-04-23 14:28:57 <programe> so ill take the jgarziks one
1195 2011-04-23 14:28:59 <programe> and improve it
1196 2011-04-23 14:29:09 <sipa> Pander: in general, no
1197 2011-04-23 14:29:13 <sipa> Pander: in practice, yes
1198 2011-04-23 14:29:16 <Pander> haha
1199 2011-04-23 14:29:18 <programe> do you guys know if it needs to be compiled in windows or linux the jgarziks one?
1200 2011-04-23 14:29:39 <LtBrenton> BITCOIN BOOMDEYADA! :D http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6173.0 <-- I recorded it, check the last two posts
1201 2011-04-23 14:29:40 <sipa> Pander: but it will be "money was transferred from addresses a b and c, to addresses d and e"
1202 2011-04-23 14:29:51 <Pander> your personal transactions are stored in your wallet, correct? info on transactions of others are distributed throughout the db, right?
1203 2011-04-23 14:30:05 <sipa> the block chain contains all transactions
1204 2011-04-23 14:30:12 <ArtForz> the block chain contains every transaction ever.
1205 2011-04-23 14:30:24 <sipa> you personal transactions as well as the keys to those are indeed stored in your wallet
1206 2011-04-23 14:30:59 <ArtForz> whats providing the [ano|pseudo]nymity is that no one knows who owns which address
1207 2011-04-23 14:31:18 <Pander> txOut is simple to digest, txIn is a bit harder
1208 2011-04-23 14:31:24 <ArtForz> yep
1209 2011-04-23 14:31:34 <programe> seems like jgarzik pool server software doesnt have any clients that work with it?
1210 2011-04-23 14:31:35 <LtBrenton> people noticed my boomdeyada link right? :P
1211 2011-04-23 14:31:45 <ArtForz> and txin being executed *before* txout is also a bit of a mindfuck
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1213 2011-04-23 14:32:25 <Pander> so the 'from'/sending party is the owner in the previous transactions txout?
1214 2011-04-23 14:32:35 <sipa> yes
1215 2011-04-23 14:32:36 <ArtForz> yep
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1217 2011-04-23 14:34:47 <Pander> transaction 29 has 2 objects in txout: value 1000000 and value 2332000000, transaction 30 has 2 objects in txout: value 15000000 and 2317000000
1218 2011-04-23 14:35:24 <Pander> but that doesn't add up
1219 2011-04-23 14:35:57 <programe> pushpool jgarzik server software works with diablo miner client?
1220 2011-04-23 14:37:12 <Pander> the sum of transaction 30 is only one of the values of transaciont 29
1221 2011-04-23 14:38:14 MingusDew has quit (Quit: http://folding.stanford.edu/)
1222 2011-04-23 14:38:18 <sipa> Pander: link?
1223 2011-04-23 14:39:07 <Pander> eeeuh, the first block when running statistics.py from bitcointools
1224 2011-04-23 14:40:19 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1225 2011-04-23 14:40:36 <Pander> but this happens a lot in consecutive transactions, perhaps I'm comparing them in a wrong way (probably)
1226 2011-04-23 14:41:14 <Pander> off topic: live broadcat http://beastieboys.com/
1227 2011-04-23 14:41:20 NickelBot has joined
1228 2011-04-23 14:41:56 ForceDestroyer has joined
1229 2011-04-23 14:42:27 <sipa> Pander: use blockexplorer.com
1230 2011-04-23 14:43:51 <ForceDestroyer> Vandroiy here, on a different computer. Is anyone following the slightly derailed forum thread about difficulty equilibrium after coin generation becomes small?
1231 2011-04-23 14:43:56 <ForceDestroyer> This one: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6284
1232 2011-04-23 14:44:26 lianj has joined
1233 2011-04-23 14:44:52 <Pander> sipa: thanks, I will reverse engeneerr from there
1234 2011-04-23 14:45:42 Pander has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110323143040])
1235 2011-04-23 14:45:59 <ForceDestroyer> I might have to re-create the thread for readability. Either way, I'm kind of shocked to get three answers from prominent members which I, quite frankly, believe to be false.
1236 2011-04-23 14:46:32 <ForceDestroyer> The only response that calms me down on this is the transaction limit, which a majority plans to remove in the future
1237 2011-04-23 14:46:44 <programe> ArtForz: the jgarzik pool server software seems to onli support a CPU miner
1238 2011-04-23 14:47:12 Cusipzzz has joined
1239 2011-04-23 14:47:26 sabalaba has joined
1240 2011-04-23 14:47:53 <ForceDestroyer> (Okay, I admit I don't have exact stats on who wants to remove the transaction limit. But many don't see it as a problem.)
1241 2011-04-23 14:48:01 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1242 2011-04-23 14:48:59 <sipa> ForceDestroyer: you're vandroiy?
1243 2011-04-23 14:49:33 sabalaba has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1245 2011-04-23 14:49:47 <Vandroiy_> sipa: Yes, using different PC
1246 2011-04-23 14:49:50 <Vandroiy_> Ah, damn
1247 2011-04-23 14:49:53 Vandroiy_ is now known as Vandroiy
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1249 2011-04-23 14:50:34 <programe> which procotol sofware does diablo miner supports?
1250 2011-04-23 14:50:41 <programe> for pooled mining
1251 2011-04-23 14:50:53 <sipa> rpc
1252 2011-04-23 14:50:57 <sipa> getwork
1253 2011-04-23 14:51:19 <programe> so it will work with the puddipop pool server i guess
1254 2011-04-23 14:51:21 knotwork_ has joined
1255 2011-04-23 14:51:56 <programe> since puddipop pool servre uses rpc and getwork, right?
1256 2011-04-23 14:52:17 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: I wonder if my super small max_money proto coin chain will be able to test this transaction fee prediction in you linked article above
1257 2011-04-23 14:52:50 <sipa> ForceDestroyer: i'm interested in doing some simulations later on
1258 2011-04-23 14:53:08 <programe> so basically if i setup a puddipop server, ill be able to connect to it using diablo miner
1259 2011-04-23 14:53:12 <Diablo-D3> programe: getwork is the bitcoin json rpc command that miners use
1260 2011-04-23 14:53:13 <Diablo-D3> all of them
1261 2011-04-23 14:53:44 <Diablo-D3> btw, I thought puddinpop's server was for his old miner
1262 2011-04-23 14:53:47 <Diablo-D3> I could be wrong, though
1263 2011-04-23 14:53:49 <programe> DIablo-D3: i want to basically setup a server pool that supoorts Diablo Miner, which one do you recommend?
1264 2011-04-23 14:53:57 <ForceDestroyer> sacarlson, sipa: great, I appreciate it! Please keep me posted on your results and setup.
1265 2011-04-23 14:54:14 <Diablo-D3> programe: honestly, I recommend my own... which isnt done yet
1266 2011-04-23 14:54:21 <Diablo-D3> there are no public pool softwares
1267 2011-04-23 14:54:33 <programe> Diablo-D3: i can help you to finish your own
1268 2011-04-23 14:54:51 <programe> Diablo-D3: puddipop server pool software is public
1269 2011-04-23 14:54:51 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: my present test is creating a max_money of only 50 coins so I should have some results in about 3 days
1270 2011-04-23 14:55:03 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: sorry 50 blocks
1271 2011-04-23 14:55:25 * ForceDestroyer just wants to make sure people are aware of the dissent and will tread carefully with things concerning the transaction limits.
1272 2011-04-23 14:55:32 <programe> Diablo-D3: why you say there is no public pool software? what about puddipop one?
1273 2011-04-23 14:55:41 <ForceDestroyer> sacarlson: what's using the system?
1274 2011-04-23 14:55:47 <Diablo-D3> programe: well, like I said, I thought he wrote his before there was a standard api for miners
1275 2011-04-23 14:56:16 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: just two systems to test at present with temp 3rd system in virtualbox
1276 2011-04-23 14:56:28 <programe> so the standard api today is the getwork and rcp ?
1277 2011-04-23 14:56:36 <programe> Diablo-D3
1278 2011-04-23 14:57:00 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: it just a test setup nothing really using it yet
1279 2011-04-23 14:57:07 <Diablo-D3> like I said, getwork is a command that is available through the bitcoin json rpc api
1280 2011-04-23 14:57:13 <Diablo-D3> its how it works
1281 2011-04-23 14:57:35 <programe> Diablo-D3: i see
1282 2011-04-23 14:57:43 <ForceDestroyer> I don't know whether we're on the same page, my post is about a problem that appears on macroscopic systems due to competition... you will need either a good model for a lot of users or enough people competing for the coins on the test setup
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1284 2011-04-23 14:59:02 <programe> seems like the standard bitcoin client/server uses puddipop pool server software?
1285 2011-04-23 14:59:13 <programe> what happens if i connect multiple miners to my standard bitcoin server
1286 2011-04-23 14:59:13 redMBA has joined
1287 2011-04-23 14:59:17 <ForceDestroyer> Things like the currently discussed huge miner splitting the block chain to remove competing transactions, or the microscopic case of miners being too clustered to form a cartel on tx fees is integral to the problem
1288 2011-04-23 14:59:28 <BlueMatt> programe: they all mine
1289 2011-04-23 14:59:42 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: to start I need to see what happens when all the coins are already created and see if a micro network will be stable and secure
1290 2011-04-23 14:59:53 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: thats a nonissue
1291 2011-04-23 14:59:57 <programe> BlueMatt: and the reward goes to the address that the standard bitcoin server has configured, right?
1292 2011-04-23 15:00:07 <programe> BlueMatt: the miners wont get any coins
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1296 2011-04-23 15:00:19 <sipa> miners don't even have a notion of "address"
1297 2011-04-23 15:00:23 <sipa> they just calculate hashes
1298 2011-04-23 15:00:27 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: not only that, I plan on setting up my pool to start not carrying transactions that dont pay fees
1299 2011-04-23 15:00:43 <Diablo-D3> sipa: miners, as people, do
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1301 2011-04-23 15:00:56 <Diablo-D3> you can alter bitcoind to only put tx into the block that pay well
1302 2011-04-23 15:01:11 <sipa> Diablo-D3: i was referring to the software
1303 2011-04-23 15:01:13 <BlueMatt> programe: what sipa said...so, yes
1304 2011-04-23 15:01:23 <ForceDestroyer> Diablo-D3: can you write down your model? If it corresponds to one of those discussed in the thread, please point out the error I made.
1305 2011-04-23 15:01:36 <BlueMatt> miners are just given data to hash they dont set anything like address etc
1306 2011-04-23 15:01:46 <ForceDestroyer> If you assume the transaction limit, of course, you are right
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1309 2011-04-23 15:01:57 <ForceDestroyer> But that's what the discussion is about ;)
1310 2011-04-23 15:01:59 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: step 1) reject tx that dont pay fees, step 2) ????, step 3) profit!
1311 2011-04-23 15:02:06 <Diablo-D3> its not harmful to the network
1312 2011-04-23 15:02:12 <Diablo-D3> if anything, it improves growth of btc
1313 2011-04-23 15:02:37 <ForceDestroyer> I never talked about no fees, but arbitrarily small fees. Please read the thread.
1314 2011-04-23 15:02:46 <Diablo-D3> thread url
1315 2011-04-23 15:02:49 <programe> BlueMatt: so if i open my regular bitcoin client on server mode... and i tell everyone else to connect to it using rpc miners... and i have a bitcoin address configured on the bitcoin server on server mode, all the generated coins goes to the address i have configured?
1316 2011-04-23 15:03:00 <programe> BlueMatt: or each miner gets their own coins?
1317 2011-04-23 15:03:04 <BlueMatt> programe: the first
1318 2011-04-23 15:03:08 <Diablo-D3> programe: uh dude
1319 2011-04-23 15:03:17 <BlueMatt> miners know nothing about addresses/coins, just data to hash
1320 2011-04-23 15:03:24 <ForceDestroyer> Diablo-D3: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6284 sorry about the misconception in the beginnnig
1321 2011-04-23 15:03:26 <Diablo-D3> programe: if you connect rpc to the internet, we can all tell your bitcoind to send money to ourselves
1322 2011-04-23 15:03:40 <Diablo-D3> programe: the json rpc allows you to do ALL functions of bitcoin
1323 2011-04-23 15:03:49 <BlueMatt> programe: provided, as Diablo-D3 points out, that you block access to the sendcoins functions
1324 2011-04-23 15:04:06 <Diablo-D3> yeah, its easy to proxy that
1325 2011-04-23 15:04:19 <Diablo-D3> infact, thats what my pool software did first
1326 2011-04-23 15:04:21 <Diablo-D3> it just proxied it
1327 2011-04-23 15:05:04 <programe> so basically if i open my bitcoin client on server mode to a public IP address
1328 2011-04-23 15:05:19 <programe> all the people will be able to get my money
1329 2011-04-23 15:05:20 <programe> ?
1330 2011-04-23 15:05:21 <Diablo-D3> yes
1331 2011-04-23 15:05:31 [N00dles] is now known as [Noodles]
1332 2011-04-23 15:05:35 <programe> weird
1333 2011-04-23 15:05:38 <Diablo-D3> programe: the json rpc api allows you do ALL functions of the client
1334 2011-04-23 15:05:40 <Diablo-D3> its not weird at all
1335 2011-04-23 15:05:44 <Diablo-D3> thats it's entire purpose
1336 2011-04-23 15:05:57 <programe> Diablo-D3: and if i open the bitcoin client on server mode on Server1 on my LAN
1337 2011-04-23 15:06:07 <Diablo-D3> then only people on your network can access it
1338 2011-04-23 15:06:28 <programe> Diablo-D3: and then i have other 10 computers on the LAN, and i make those 10 computers to connect via RPC to mine to my bitcoin server on Server1
1339 2011-04-23 15:06:34 <sacarlson> programe: I think they will also need the username and password for your rpc but it's sent in clear text
1340 2011-04-23 15:06:44 <Diablo-D3> this is why bitcoin listens to localhost only by default, and this is also why it requires you to set a username and password for the rpc
1341 2011-04-23 15:06:50 <programe> Diablo-D3: all the miners on my network will just do work but wont generate any coins
1342 2011-04-23 15:07:01 <Diablo-D3> programe: no, they'll generate you coins
1343 2011-04-23 15:07:03 <programe> Diablo-D3: right? all the coints will go to my bitcoin server
1344 2011-04-23 15:07:06 Vandroiy has left ()
1345 2011-04-23 15:07:13 <Diablo-D3> yes, they'll all go to the bitcoind
1346 2011-04-23 15:07:15 <programe> Diablo-D3: all the coins goes to Server1, right?
1347 2011-04-23 15:07:17 <Diablo-D3> yes
1348 2011-04-23 15:07:24 <Diablo-D3> the miners themselves have no concept of bitcoin
1349 2011-04-23 15:07:37 <programe> Diablo-D3: but anyone on the LAN will be able to use Server1 to send coins to themselves
1350 2011-04-23 15:07:47 <Diablo-D3> programe: only if they have your username and password for the rpc.
1351 2011-04-23 15:07:48 <programe> Diablo-D3: and take off all the coins from Server1 to themselves, right?
1352 2011-04-23 15:08:00 <Diablo-D3> all miners, obviously, require the username and password
1353 2011-04-23 15:08:31 <programe> Diablo-D3: yes, so they will be able to do it for sure, since ill need to provide my username and password for them to be able to generate me coins, right?
1354 2011-04-23 15:08:40 <Diablo-D3> yes.
1355 2011-04-23 15:08:40 <BlueMatt> programe: rpc allows people to mine, send coins, list addresses, list accounts, list txes, etc. Unless you do some manual work, people with your rpc u/p can do either all or nothing
1356 2011-04-23 15:08:49 <Diablo-D3> yeah what BlueMatt said
1357 2011-04-23 15:08:57 <Diablo-D3> its strictly an rpc, its not a public api
1358 2011-04-23 15:09:11 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: btw
1359 2011-04-23 15:09:19 <programe> BlueMatt: so basically if i want to make all the clients on my LAN
1360 2011-04-23 15:09:21 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: why do you think there should be rules?
1361 2011-04-23 15:09:21 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1362 2011-04-23 15:09:27 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: market forces drive btc for the most part
1363 2011-04-23 15:09:37 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: if people dont like what one provider is doing, they switch to another
1364 2011-04-23 15:09:51 <programe> BlueMatt: to be able to connect to server1 and mine, and get a % depending on how much hashes they contributed
1365 2011-04-23 15:09:52 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: for examole, this is why we have more than 2 pools.
1366 2011-04-23 15:09:54 <ForceDestroyer> If the rules do not guarantee system stability, the system dies as a whole. Easter Island culture, heard of it?
1367 2011-04-23 15:09:56 joepie91 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1368 2011-04-23 15:09:57 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1369 2011-04-23 15:10:16 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: stability in what respect, though?
1370 2011-04-23 15:10:20 <programe> BlueMatt: ill need to setup a pool software on Server1 right?
1371 2011-04-23 15:10:27 <BlueMatt> programe: yes
1372 2011-04-23 15:10:45 <programe> BlueMatt: puddippop pool software will be good for this?
1373 2011-04-23 15:10:54 <BlueMatt> sure
1374 2011-04-23 15:11:01 <ForceDestroyer> A very low difficulty equilibrium would make the current approach of taking the longest chain as the real one.
1375 2011-04-23 15:11:06 <programe> BlueMatt: and the miners will be able to use Diablo Miner to mine it?
1376 2011-04-23 15:11:09 <ForceDestroyer> *useless
1377 2011-04-23 15:11:17 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: you do realize no single person can fork the chain, right?
1378 2011-04-23 15:11:24 <BlueMatt> programe: dont know, Diablo-D3 ?
1379 2011-04-23 15:11:29 <ForceDestroyer> At a very low difficulty, a single person could
1380 2011-04-23 15:11:39 <programe> BlueMatt: i dont know if puddipop pool software supports Diablo miner
1381 2011-04-23 15:11:43 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: even when bitcoin had less than a thousand users, it was very difficult to absolutely hijack it
1382 2011-04-23 15:12:15 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt, programe: I could be wrong, but I thought puddipop's server was for his old miner before getwork was added to json rpc
1383 2011-04-23 15:12:31 joepie91 has joined
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1385 2011-04-23 15:12:35 <ForceDestroyer> You're evading the discussion. Bitcoin currently has the strong mining power because of coin generation, not fees. It is to be assumed that people mine for profit.
1386 2011-04-23 15:12:48 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: go read satoshi's original white paper
1387 2011-04-23 15:12:51 <BlueMatt> programe: there are other mining servers out there
1388 2011-04-23 15:12:58 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: the driving force of mining is the fees, not the generation
1389 2011-04-23 15:13:01 <ForceDestroyer> If fee equilibrium is not stable/functional, the situation might change in the future
1390 2011-04-23 15:13:03 <programe> BlueMatt: like which ones?
1391 2011-04-23 15:13:16 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: fee equilibrium will happen when generation stops
1392 2011-04-23 15:13:23 manu1 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.1.18/20110324092924])
1393 2011-04-23 15:13:27 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: it will be slightly higher than the cost of running a miner
1394 2011-04-23 15:13:31 <programe> Bluematt: i only saw the puddipop one and the jgarzik one
1395 2011-04-23 15:13:44 <ForceDestroyer> But we have a second free parameter, the hashrate of the network
1396 2011-04-23 15:13:46 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: unless tx blocks end up being 100% full 24/7, then people will up fees to get into the slot earlier
1397 2011-04-23 15:13:57 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: hashrate doesnt effect anything
1398 2011-04-23 15:14:05 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: we have 10 minutes per block, period
1399 2011-04-23 15:14:22 <ForceDestroyer> Again, I am talking about people who want to remove the transaction limit
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1401 2011-04-23 15:14:39 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: you mean the max tx per block limit?
1402 2011-04-23 15:14:42 <ForceDestroyer> I am aware that the whole thing behaves very differently with the current tx limit
1403 2011-04-23 15:14:43 <ForceDestroyer> Yes
1404 2011-04-23 15:14:49 <Diablo-D3> it should be removed in the future imo
1405 2011-04-23 15:14:55 <Diablo-D3> or at least upped
1406 2011-04-23 15:14:55 <BlueMatt> programe: I guess those are the only ones...if you want to do your own custom rpc stuff shouldnt be too hard though
1407 2011-04-23 15:14:59 <ForceDestroyer> Then the blocks will not be "full".
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1409 2011-04-23 15:15:10 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: full will cause problems that transactions wont get into the chain
1410 2011-04-23 15:15:16 <Diablo-D3> because fees will be too high
1411 2011-04-23 15:15:19 <ArtForz> how do they want to prevent block stuffing?
1412 2011-04-23 15:15:27 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: fee regulation
1413 2011-04-23 15:15:30 <ArtForz> ?
1414 2011-04-23 15:15:35 <Diablo-D3> basically it'll be too expensive for spammers to spam
1415 2011-04-23 15:15:48 <programe> BlueMatt: what i want to do basically is to setup a pool server where every miner that connects to it to mine, get a % depending on how many hashes they contributed to create the current block
1416 2011-04-23 15:15:56 <ArtForz> so you want to enfoce min fees on tx in blocks?
1417 2011-04-23 15:16:13 <programe> BlueMatt: and i want miners to be able to use Diablo miner and as many client miners as possible
1418 2011-04-23 15:16:17 <BlueMatt> programe: yes, so youll have to do a custom one
1419 2011-04-23 15:16:29 <ForceDestroyer> I don't know where this is going, I provided a complete argument on this. Remove transaction fees, and nobody has provided a stable model on how big hashrate or transaction fees would be. People can couple the two, but are then left with a free parameter that should be determined by the wish to pay low prices.
1420 2011-04-23 15:16:30 <Diablo-D3> well, programe can wait for my pool software to be done
1421 2011-04-23 15:16:42 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: woah woah woah
1422 2011-04-23 15:16:44 <Diablo-D3> hold on here
1423 2011-04-23 15:16:51 <Diablo-D3> removing the max tx limit doesnt remove fees
1424 2011-04-23 15:16:52 <programe> Diablo-D3: can you share the source code with me so i can finish that pool software=
1425 2011-04-23 15:16:54 <ForceDestroyer> If you wish to remove the limit, please tell me where I am wrong
1426 2011-04-23 15:16:55 <programe> Diablo-D3: can you share the source code with me so i can finish that pool software?
1427 2011-04-23 15:17:02 <Diablo-D3> it just stops fees from skyrocketing for retarded reasons
1428 2011-04-23 15:17:14 <Diablo-D3> programe: not yet.
1429 2011-04-23 15:17:22 <Diablo-D3> programe: its not ready for primetime yet.
1430 2011-04-23 15:17:22 <programe> Diblo-D3: why not yet?
1431 2011-04-23 15:17:32 <ArtForz> if you remove the max block size limit and don't *enforce* fees in blocks, what stops a spammer with a few gh/s from creating valid 4GB blocks?
1432 2011-04-23 15:17:35 <Diablo-D3> maybe in another month or so
1433 2011-04-23 15:17:41 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: is it just rpc or does it allow other methods?
1434 2011-04-23 15:17:44 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: nothing
1435 2011-04-23 15:17:50 <Diablo-D3> but you should have like a hard limit of 4mb
1436 2011-04-23 15:17:56 <Diablo-D3> thats like a million tx
1437 2011-04-23 15:18:08 <ArtForz> so you want to remove the block size limit, but keep the block size limit.... mmmkay....
1438 2011-04-23 15:18:14 <programe> so to create a pool server software thats supported by all the clients, i need to make the server to support getwork rcp calls, right?
1439 2011-04-23 15:18:17 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: it'll do rpc and my new miner protocol
1440 2011-04-23 15:18:24 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: right now, obviously, just rpc
1441 2011-04-23 15:18:27 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: do we need a 3rd?
1442 2011-04-23 15:18:27 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1443 2011-04-23 15:18:33 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: "second"
1444 2011-04-23 15:18:38 <BlueMatt> jgarzik?
1445 2011-04-23 15:18:40 <Diablo-D3> I detailed the protocol before anyone else wrote one
1446 2011-04-23 15:18:52 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik wrote his in response to him thinking mine sucked
1447 2011-04-23 15:19:01 <programe> Diablo-D3: right now its only the binary protocol and the json rcp protocol ?
1448 2011-04-23 15:19:02 <BlueMatt> ok and his is already implemented
1449 2011-04-23 15:19:06 <BlueMatt> so why make a new one?
1450 2011-04-23 15:19:11 <BlueMatt> or use
1451 2011-04-23 15:19:26 <Diablo-D3> programe: thats it
1452 2011-04-23 15:19:34 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: because there is no place in the world for new protocols
1453 2011-04-23 15:19:39 <Diablo-D3> plus, his is a long poll protocol
1454 2011-04-23 15:19:42 <Diablo-D3> its not a good idea
1455 2011-04-23 15:19:45 <ArtForz> I'm pretty sure my binary miner protocol is the oldest
1456 2011-04-23 15:19:57 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: at this point, his is implemented hence yours would be the new protocol
1457 2011-04-23 15:20:07 NickelBot has joined
1458 2011-04-23 15:20:10 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: /me shrugs
1459 2011-04-23 15:20:18 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: Im not interested in implementing a broken protocl
1460 2011-04-23 15:20:26 <Diablo-D3> mine will be very easy to implement for existing miners
1461 2011-04-23 15:21:03 <BlueMatt> god this community is terrible at coming to an agreement, before long we are gonna have 100 rpc-style protocols for 100 different things, 100 different uri schemes, and 1000 different clients
1462 2011-04-23 15:21:12 <ArtForz> not really
1463 2011-04-23 15:21:18 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: mine will be a standardized websockets protocol
1464 2011-04-23 15:21:39 <ArtForz> eww, websockets.
1465 2011-04-23 15:21:58 <Diablo-D3> websockets are fine goddamnit
1466 2011-04-23 15:22:09 <Diablo-D3> its bidirectional eventful http.
1467 2011-04-23 15:22:16 <Diablo-D3> its easy to implement and it works
1468 2011-04-23 15:22:35 FellowTraveler has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1469 2011-04-23 15:22:37 <ArtForz> yes, slapping fake http headers on a tcp connection between a miner thats not a browser and a bitcoin node thats not a webserver totally makes sense ...
1470 2011-04-23 15:22:40 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: and yet it got pulled from all non-webkit browsers due to security and compatibility concerns
1471 2011-04-23 15:22:52 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: thats because they're retarded.
1472 2011-04-23 15:23:11 <Diablo-D3> idiot developers fucked up early websocket development
1473 2011-04-23 15:23:15 * BlueMatt wonders why Diablo-D3 isnt running the world if hes soo much more brilliant than the rest of the world
1474 2011-04-23 15:23:24 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: because I dont run for office.
1475 2011-04-23 15:23:34 <Diablo-D3> I dont particularly have the time to do it anyhow
1476 2011-04-23 15:23:35 <ArtForz> because no one recognizes his true potential!!1one
1477 2011-04-23 15:23:40 <ArtForz> ;)
1478 2011-04-23 15:23:40 <programe> why pepple dont create a javascript miner?
1479 2011-04-23 15:23:47 jb55 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1480 2011-04-23 15:23:48 <Diablo-D3> programe: because it'd be about 50 times slower?
1481 2011-04-23 15:23:53 <ArtForz> programe: they did. it sucked.
1482 2011-04-23 15:23:55 <BlueMatt> programe: people have, it gets not performance
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1484 2011-04-23 15:24:03 joepie92 has joined
1485 2011-04-23 15:24:04 <Diablo-D3> also, webgl does not cover opencl yet ;)
1486 2011-04-23 15:24:08 <ForceDestroyer> I'll just wait for answers on the forum. Please warn me if there are plans on changes of the block size limit, especially if it is removed. I'll probably donate a few BTC as thanks.
1487 2011-04-23 15:24:17 <programe> Diablo-D3: but almost it will be easier for on-tech saavy users to contribute
1488 2011-04-23 15:24:22 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: well, like I said, they'll probably just be a new limit
1489 2011-04-23 15:24:26 <programe> they would just open their browser
1490 2011-04-23 15:24:26 <Diablo-D3> btw, whats the current limit? 64kb?
1491 2011-04-23 15:24:29 <programe> and thats all
1492 2011-04-23 15:24:37 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: 1MB
1493 2011-04-23 15:24:38 <Diablo-D3> programe: yeah, which requires webgl to be extended to support opencl
1494 2011-04-23 15:24:42 <Diablo-D3> 1mb? jesus dude
1495 2011-04-23 15:24:46 <Diablo-D3> thats not a limit at all
1496 2011-04-23 15:24:58 <programe> Diablo-D3: nono i mean to perform the calculations on Javascript directly, CPU sttuff
1497 2011-04-23 15:25:12 <Diablo-D3> programe: okay, lets take your average cpu: 4 mhash/sec. lets make it 50 times slower.
1498 2011-04-23 15:25:15 <ArtForz> programe: yes, they did. it sucked.
1499 2011-04-23 15:25:16 <BlueMatt> programe: again, people ahve it gets NOTHIGN
1500 2011-04-23 15:25:30 <ArtForz> got ~30khash/s iirc
1501 2011-04-23 15:25:30 <BlueMatt> more than 50x slower
1502 2011-04-23 15:25:30 <Diablo-D3> programe: then, lets take your average gpu: 150 mhash/sec and up.
1503 2011-04-23 15:25:51 <Diablo-D3> programe: so, seriously, screw cpu mining
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1505 2011-04-23 15:26:11 <programe> ArtForz: well but almost all the users that are afraid to install miners will be able to contribute cpu power
1506 2011-04-23 15:26:15 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: hm, I thought it was less, but it doesnt really matter, it sucks either way
1507 2011-04-23 15:26:21 <programe> that number of users can be 1.000.000.000
1508 2011-04-23 15:26:33 <programe> 1.000.000.000+30kash=
1509 2011-04-23 15:26:34 <ArtForz> no it can't
1510 2011-04-23 15:26:44 <BlueMatt> programe: if you have that many users on your website, you dont want to run a mining server for all of them
1511 2011-04-23 15:26:45 <programe> 1.000.000.000*30kash
1512 2011-04-23 15:26:48 <ArtForz> all those miners have to *connect somewhere*
1513 2011-04-23 15:26:48 <Diablo-D3> btw, 1mb max size is, what, 100k tx?
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1515 2011-04-23 15:27:11 <programe> ArtForz: those miners can connect somewhere using javascript
1516 2011-04-23 15:27:13 <BlueMatt> even if you could, with that many users, someone would notice and bitch
1517 2011-04-23 15:27:16 <ArtForz> a tx is iirc ~250B avg
1518 2011-04-23 15:27:17 <ForceDestroyer> 1MB appears a lot now, but from what I see the problem won't appear for another 5 years or maybe even 13 years. If bitcoin succeeds and micro-transactions are going on, I think 1 MB is rather small.
1519 2011-04-23 15:27:24 <ArtForz> programe: and that somewhere... grows on trees?
1520 2011-04-23 15:27:32 <BlueMatt> programe: the point is the bitcoin node and mining software
1521 2011-04-23 15:27:40 <Diablo-D3> okay so 4k transactions
1522 2011-04-23 15:27:42 <BlueMatt> the load on that server would be amazing
1523 2011-04-23 15:27:42 <Diablo-D3> thats...
1524 2011-04-23 15:27:44 <Diablo-D3> yeah, thats a little low
1525 2011-04-23 15:27:52 <Diablo-D3> I'd rather see a 64mb limit
1526 2011-04-23 15:28:02 <Diablo-D3> weellll
1527 2011-04-23 15:28:02 <ArtForz> thats ~6.5tx *per second*
1528 2011-04-23 15:28:06 <programe> im talking some javascript code so that for example facebook can include it on their webpages
1529 2011-04-23 15:28:07 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah
1530 2011-04-23 15:28:11 <Diablo-D3> 4mb would be enough
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1532 2011-04-23 15:28:19 <BlueMatt> programe: people would complain like crazyt
1533 2011-04-23 15:28:21 <programe> that might contribute lots of cpu power from all the facebook users
1534 2011-04-23 15:28:22 <ForceDestroyer> Miners planning their own downfall... you people. lol
1535 2011-04-23 15:28:23 <ArtForz> we average way less than that per minute
1536 2011-04-23 15:28:23 <Diablo-D3> thats in the ballpark of the entire US transactional system
1537 2011-04-23 15:28:33 <BlueMatt> and at that many users, you should just be buying gpus than bitcoin pool servers
1538 2011-04-23 15:28:36 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: btw, you do realize block size doesnt change mining speed
1539 2011-04-23 15:28:39 <programe> javascript processing wont make a difference for them, they wont even notice it
1540 2011-04-23 15:28:49 <BlueMatt> programe: yes they will, big time
1541 2011-04-23 15:28:54 <ArtForz> *headdesk*
1542 2011-04-23 15:28:58 <ForceDestroyer> Yes, I don't mean mining speed, I mean size of the mining network
1543 2011-04-23 15:29:06 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: I dont understand then
1544 2011-04-23 15:29:37 <ForceDestroyer> Did you read the thread? It's a bit convoluted if you want the counter- and counter-counter-arguments further down, but the first post has the rough idea
1545 2011-04-23 15:29:58 <ArtForz> ForceDestroyer: increasing the block size limit *when it's needed* won't be really controversial, so it's only a matter of changing a #define and getting everyone to update
1546 2011-04-23 15:30:00 <Diablo-D3> Im trying to read the thread, but the amount of dumb shit in it is amazing
1547 2011-04-23 15:30:06 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: WELLL
1548 2011-04-23 15:30:08 <Diablo-D3> we should do it early
1549 2011-04-23 15:30:18 <Diablo-D3> just so we arent stuck with assholes who wont upgrade
1550 2011-04-23 15:30:38 <ForceDestroyer> Diablo-D3: by me or others? If by me, can you point out an error?
1551 2011-04-23 15:30:42 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: no, because that just invites griefers with a few gh/s to create massive blocks
1552 2011-04-23 15:30:52 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: the whole thread is just fff.
1553 2011-04-23 15:30:59 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: but that does absolutely nothing to me.
1554 2011-04-23 15:31:16 <Diablo-D3> throwing 4mb blocks at me or even 64mb blocks at me does jack shit
1555 2011-04-23 15:31:33 jwalck has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1556 2011-04-23 15:31:45 <ForceDestroyer> Do you know the basic concept of logic? the thread has assumptions, and then applies it. If it is dumb, it must be easy to point out an error.
1557 2011-04-23 15:31:49 <ArtForz> well, let's say 64MB, and maybe 5% of blocks
1558 2011-04-23 15:32:07 jwalck has joined
1559 2011-04-23 15:32:08 <ArtForz> 168GB/year/node
1560 2011-04-23 15:32:21 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah, thats nothing.
1561 2011-04-23 15:32:23 <ArtForz> sorry, wrong
1562 2011-04-23 15:32:37 <ArtForz> no, right
1563 2011-04-23 15:32:41 <ArtForz> 168GB/year/node
1564 2011-04-23 15:35:43 jb55 has joined
1565 2011-04-23 15:35:51 <ArtForz> at $30/TB... $5
1566 2011-04-23 15:35:54 ktrade has joined
1567 2011-04-23 15:35:58 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah like
1568 2011-04-23 15:36:03 <ktrade> What's the status of raising the 1mb size?
1569 2011-04-23 15:36:08 <ArtForz> *per year*
1570 2011-04-23 15:36:08 <Diablo-D3> I can buy fucking 1TB hds now for like $50
1571 2011-04-23 15:36:19 <ArtForz> so really not too bad
1572 2011-04-23 15:36:21 <Diablo-D3> $50 buys me several years of growth
1573 2011-04-23 15:36:44 <ArtForz> only problem would be if everyone did max out blocks, then it'd be like $50-100/yr for storage
1574 2011-04-23 15:36:47 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1575 2011-04-23 15:37:54 <ArtForz> problem is, convincing people to store that amount with 0 immediate benefit is going to be *hard*
1576 2011-04-23 15:38:25 <ArtForz> see whole ipv6 disaster "why change now, there's still some time left until we hit the wall"
1577 2011-04-23 15:39:32 <BlueMatt> just because space is cheap, doesnt mean people want to spend that much space on bitcoin, especially people who dont want to upgrade their 5-year-old pc
1578 2011-04-23 15:39:38 <ArtForz> yep
1579 2011-04-23 15:39:44 <ArtForz> might be a good idea to wait for a working lightweight client impl before raising block size
1580 2011-04-23 15:40:23 <ArtForz> that way if you don't mine, you don't need to store blocks (they'll still take up bandwidth though)
1581 2011-04-23 15:41:57 <programe> im trying to understand what getwork does
1582 2011-04-23 15:41:58 <programe> hehe
1583 2011-04-23 15:42:01 <BlueMatt> though IMHO we need some kind of differentiation on the network level for thin clients. I dont think the majority of the network will continue to be full clients and if you start getting a ton of thin clients connected to each other, you open the door for ddos
1584 2011-04-23 15:42:30 <ArtForz> yep
1585 2011-04-23 15:42:42 <ArtForz> well, simple solution - don't have thin clients act as hubs
1586 2011-04-23 15:43:05 <ArtForz> = only full client announce themselves with addr() broadcasts
1587 2011-04-23 15:43:06 <BlueMatt> yea IMHO just a simple flag at connect time and thin clients dont connect to other thin clients
1588 2011-04-23 15:43:20 <BlueMatt> and some kind of irc differentiation and such
1589 2011-04-23 15:43:27 <ArtForz> that way you should end up with a network pof supernodes with thin client leaves
1590 2011-04-23 15:43:59 <ArtForz> yeah, we already have that flag in version, don't we?
1591 2011-04-23 15:44:08 <BlueMatt> dont know
1592 2011-04-23 15:44:11 <programe> what does getwork does? how it works?
1593 2011-04-23 15:44:19 <ArtForz> it gets work
1594 2011-04-23 15:44:27 <BlueMatt> anyway solution is simple, just need to keep that in mind when doing thin client stuff
1595 2011-04-23 15:44:44 <BlueMatt> maybe already get support ready in the main client...or is it theoretically already there?
1596 2011-04-23 15:44:45 <programe> uhmm
1597 2011-04-23 15:44:47 <programe> "midstate" : precomputed hash state after hashing the first half of the data
1598 2011-04-23 15:44:52 <programe> whats it?
1599 2011-04-23 15:45:20 <programe> "hash1" : formatted hash buffer for second hash
1600 2011-04-23 15:45:21 <programe> o_O
1601 2011-04-23 15:46:35 <programe> nvm im researching getwork indepth
1602 2011-04-23 15:46:49 <ArtForz> it's pretty simple once you realize what the miner is really doing
1603 2011-04-23 15:46:55 <ArtForz> sha256(sha256(blockheader))
1604 2011-04-23 15:47:03 <ArtForz> block header is 80 bytes, sha block size is 64 bytes
1605 2011-04-23 15:47:09 <ArtForz> so the inner hash is 2 sha blocks
1606 2011-04-23 15:47:42 <ArtForz> now, the first 64B of the block header are constant as long as you don't change tx list = merkle tree
1607 2011-04-23 15:47:55 <ArtForz> so it makes sense to only do that part once, and store the result
1608 2011-04-23 15:47:59 <ArtForz> = midstate
1609 2011-04-23 15:48:52 <programe> i see
1610 2011-04-23 15:50:40 <lianj> how can i read the bitcoin address out of a raw transaction?
1611 2011-04-23 15:51:04 skeledrew has joined
1612 2011-04-23 15:52:28 prax has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1613 2011-04-23 15:52:51 <taco_the_paco> luke-jr around?
1614 2011-04-23 15:52:57 prax has joined
1615 2011-04-23 15:52:57 prax has quit (Changing host)
1616 2011-04-23 15:52:57 prax has joined
1617 2011-04-23 15:55:20 <luke-jr> taco_the_paco: ?
1618 2011-04-23 16:02:28 <ForceDestroyer> This may sound stupid, but do we need more than a handful of miners if there is no attack taking place?
1619 2011-04-23 16:02:40 <edcba> ?
1620 2011-04-23 16:02:44 <ArtForz> yes
1621 2011-04-23 16:02:55 <ArtForz> because you can't tell if someone isn't secretly building a longer chain
1622 2011-04-23 16:02:56 <ForceDestroyer> It just came to me that maybe, in the future, miners will be an insurance, only enabled if someone tries to alter the block chain
1623 2011-04-23 16:03:53 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1624 2011-04-23 16:04:09 <ForceDestroyer> Isn't it exponentially difficult to alter the chain at an earlier point? Someone claimed that
1625 2011-04-23 16:04:10 FabianB_ has joined
1626 2011-04-23 16:04:22 <Diablo-D3> "secretly"
1627 2011-04-23 16:04:25 <ArtForz> yes
1628 2011-04-23 16:04:27 <Diablo-D3> thats going to be pretty motherfucking hard
1629 2011-04-23 16:04:33 <ArtForz> not really
1630 2011-04-23 16:04:40 <Diablo-D3> it'll have to be a chain thats higher difficulty every step of the way
1631 2011-04-23 16:04:46 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 263 seconds)
1632 2011-04-23 16:04:46 <ArtForz> nope
1633 2011-04-23 16:04:56 <ArtForz> higher sum of difficulty wins
1634 2011-04-23 16:05:04 <Diablo-D3> rly? wtf.
1635 2011-04-23 16:05:10 <ArtForz> doesnt matter if it's 10000 diff 1 blocks or 1 diff 10000
1636 2011-04-23 16:05:13 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1637 2011-04-23 16:05:21 <Diablo-D3> still
1638 2011-04-23 16:05:26 <Diablo-D3> thats going to take some extra hard shit
1639 2011-04-23 16:05:30 <ArtForz> not really
1640 2011-04-23 16:05:36 <ArtForz> I did it on old testnet a few times
1641 2011-04-23 16:05:43 <Diablo-D3> thats testnet
1642 2011-04-23 16:05:50 <ArtForz> grab chain up to block X, disconnect, -connect 2 nodes, mine
1643 2011-04-23 16:06:23 <lianj> any hints how to calc the bitcoin address from a raw transaction?
1644 2011-04-23 16:06:26 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yeah but
1645 2011-04-23 16:06:38 <Diablo-D3> sigh.
1646 2011-04-23 16:06:55 <Diablo-D3> what stops me from just making 9000 btc?
1647 2011-04-23 16:06:59 <ArtForz> ?
1648 2011-04-23 16:07:14 <Diablo-D3> generate about 50000 1 diff blocks
1649 2011-04-23 16:07:20 <Diablo-D3> beat the chain
1650 2011-04-23 16:07:41 <ArtForz> errr... difficulty calculation
1651 2011-04-23 16:07:46 <Diablo-D3> make 50000 * 50 btc
1652 2011-04-23 16:08:17 <ArtForz> rmemeber the "block timestamps have to be later than median of prev 11 blocks and can't be in the fututre" rules
1653 2011-04-23 16:08:30 <Diablo-D3> so you cant beat the chain.
1654 2011-04-23 16:08:43 <ArtForz> well, not easily
1655 2011-04-23 16:08:55 <Diablo-D3> [12:00:36] <Diablo-D3> thats going to be pretty motherfucking hard
1656 2011-04-23 16:08:59 <Diablo-D3> I was right to begin with.
1657 2011-04-23 16:09:01 <ArtForz> no
1658 2011-04-23 16:09:05 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1659 2011-04-23 16:09:08 <ArtForz> just creating a double-spend is easy
1660 2011-04-23 16:09:15 <ForceDestroyer> We have manual checkpoints, right? So an attacker would have to finish his secret chain between two of them.
1661 2011-04-23 16:09:16 <ArtForz> you don't even need a modified client for it
1662 2011-04-23 16:09:18 s082192 has joined
1663 2011-04-23 16:09:29 <ArtForz> creating more blocks than should be possible is *also* possible
1664 2011-04-23 16:09:32 <jgarzik> programe: https://github.com/jgarzik/pushpool
1665 2011-04-23 16:09:38 <jgarzik> programe: pool software already exists
1666 2011-04-23 16:09:48 <programe> jgarzik: yes i tried that
1667 2011-04-23 16:09:50 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: but its not as awesome as mine
1668 2011-04-23 16:09:51 <programe> jgarzik: but...
1669 2011-04-23 16:10:06 <programe> jgarzik: that software works with all the miners? diablo miner, etc?
1670 2011-04-23 16:10:10 <ArtForz> by exploiting the x4 /4 difficulty adjustment limits
1671 2011-04-23 16:10:13 DuoSRX has quit ()
1672 2011-04-23 16:10:14 <jgarzik> programe: yes
1673 2011-04-23 16:10:23 <jgarzik> programe: it has been tested in production with all miners
1674 2011-04-23 16:10:31 <programe> jgarzik: okay ill run a pool server then using your software
1675 2011-04-23 16:10:44 <programe> jgarzik: does that sound good?
1676 2011-04-23 16:10:50 <ForceDestroyer> An "insurance" miner could jump in the moment the chain is split into two valid blocks, supporting the block that appeared first. In that case, it's insurance miner + basic network mining power vs attacker, both sides' processing power being of equal worth, correct?
1677 2011-04-23 16:10:55 <programe> jgarzik: where i can compile pushpool? windows? linux ?
1678 2011-04-23 16:11:03 <programe> jargzik: pushpool is linux only ?
1679 2011-04-23 16:11:06 <jgarzik> programe: linux only
1680 2011-04-23 16:11:16 lulzplzkthx has joined
1681 2011-04-23 16:11:21 <programe> jgarzik: okay ill download it and run on linux
1682 2011-04-23 16:11:23 <ArtForz> ForceDestroyer: again, the attacker doesn't have to broadcast his block
1683 2011-04-23 16:11:37 <jgarzik> programe: it's part of my stuff at https://xf2.org/services/
1684 2011-04-23 16:11:42 <programe> jgarzik: pushpool distributes the coins to the miners proportionally ?
1685 2011-04-23 16:11:56 <ArtForz> so attacker can silently build a alternate chain with 10s - 100s of blocks while the rest of the network sits around twiddling it's thumbs
1686 2011-04-23 16:12:07 <jaromil> sipa: thanks for the comment, somehow that missing MSG slipped in again
1687 2011-04-23 16:12:24 <jaromil> but i have a question re: binary name
1688 2011-04-23 16:12:32 <jgarzik> programe: it adds entries in a database, you need to distribute the payouts yourself
1689 2011-04-23 16:12:38 * jgarzik must reboot, bbias
1690 2011-04-23 16:12:42 jgarzik has quit (Quit: rebooting)
1691 2011-04-23 16:12:42 <ForceDestroyer> ArtForz: true. But the checkpoints are made manually, so would probably be laid off until the battle is over?
1692 2011-04-23 16:12:51 chmod755 has joined
1693 2011-04-23 16:12:58 <jaromil> i've followed pretty much the idea of changing as less as possible
1694 2011-04-23 16:13:16 <jaromil> so isn't it bitcoind anyway the name for the wx binary, also in the old wx system?
1695 2011-04-23 16:13:20 <ForceDestroyer> That means if insurance miner + basic network power can fend of an attacker in, say 50% of the time between checkpoints... the attacker is doomed
1696 2011-04-23 16:13:27 <jaromil> if yes, then i'd say that should be in another pull req, no?
1697 2011-04-23 16:13:33 <Diablo-D3> jaromil: er
1698 2011-04-23 16:13:36 <Diablo-D3> bitcoind is guiless
1699 2011-04-23 16:13:37 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt use wx
1700 2011-04-23 16:13:42 <chmod755> ;;bc,mtgox
1701 2011-04-23 16:13:42 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.497,"low":1.258,"vol":40713,"buy":1.4204,"sell":1.4207,"last":1.4207}}
1702 2011-04-23 16:13:54 <chmod755> ;;calc 1 USD in EUR
1703 2011-04-23 16:13:54 <gribble> 1 US dollar = 0.6874 euros
1704 2011-04-23 16:13:57 <jaromil> Diablo-D3: so when one builds with wx the output is bitcoin
1705 2011-04-23 16:13:57 <programe> jgarzik: so in linux there is some INSTALL or something that says me how to compile pushpool?
1706 2011-04-23 16:14:06 <chmod755> ;;calc 1 EUR in USD
1707 2011-04-23 16:14:06 <jaromil> this is already so?
1708 2011-04-23 16:14:06 <gribble> 1 euro = 1.4548 US dollars
1709 2011-04-23 16:14:23 <ArtForz> ForceDestroyer: not quite, and unless you better describe your proposed system, it's pretty moot to argue
1710 2011-04-23 16:14:34 <Diablo-D3> jaromil: I can make -f makefile.unix bitcoind
1711 2011-04-23 16:14:38 <Diablo-D3> jaromil: and it only builds bitcoind
1712 2011-04-23 16:14:45 <Diablo-D3> no wx required
1713 2011-04-23 16:14:59 <jaromil> sry i could look by myself but i'm just from a terminal not my comp
1714 2011-04-23 16:15:01 <ForceDestroyer> Just pay into a fund that pays off people who successfully fended off an attack. Make the reward large compared to typical cost of the block chain between checkpoints.
1715 2011-04-23 16:15:15 <ArtForz> again, you can't "fend off" an attack
1716 2011-04-23 16:15:15 <programe> jgarzik: so in linux there is some INSTALL or something that says me how to compile pushpool?
1717 2011-04-23 16:15:19 <jaromil> ok, so the 'bitcoin target is the wx one'
1718 2011-04-23 16:15:22 <Diablo-D3> jaromil: debian doesnt package wx 2.9, which is required for bitcoin
1719 2011-04-23 16:15:29 <jaromil> yes this i know
1720 2011-04-23 16:15:35 <jaromil> that's why we have all kinds of flags
1721 2011-04-23 16:15:36 <Diablo-D3> trust me, you can build bitcoind without it ;)
1722 2011-04-23 16:15:44 <ArtForz> the attack scenario is "a few dozen blocks forking the chain (and longer than current main chain) suddenly popping up"
1723 2011-04-23 16:15:44 <jaromil> --with-wx-prefix and such
1724 2011-04-23 16:15:45 <Diablo-D3> only bitcoin requires wx
1725 2011-04-23 16:15:53 <ArtForz> once that happens, everyone already switched
1726 2011-04-23 16:16:00 <jaromil> ok so 2 different targets
1727 2011-04-23 16:16:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: yes but
1728 2011-04-23 16:16:07 <Diablo-D3> jaromil: yes, it builds two
1729 2011-04-23 16:16:11 <Diablo-D3> jaromil: one with, one without
1730 2011-04-23 16:16:15 <jaromil> that can be fixed easily
1731 2011-04-23 16:16:24 <Diablo-D3> jaromil: even if you build the one with, the one without still builds without
1732 2011-04-23 16:16:41 <Diablo-D3> make -f makefile.unix with no additional args builds both
1733 2011-04-23 16:16:44 WakiMiko has joined
1734 2011-04-23 16:16:45 <jaromil> ack
1735 2011-04-23 16:16:55 <ForceDestroyer> ArtForz: true, the clients would have to issue a warning while a battle is taking place. But such an insurance system would fire everything it has in such a moment, probably buy CPU power from all networks available
1736 2011-04-23 16:17:01 <ForceDestroyer> *GPU power, whatever
1737 2011-04-23 16:17:03 <jaromil> ok i'll leave the pull req out for more comments
1738 2011-04-23 16:17:24 jgarzik has joined
1739 2011-04-23 16:17:29 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: except dead chain forks happen all the time
1740 2011-04-23 16:17:36 <jaromil> and tomorrow file a new one with that fix included and rebased inside the commits
1741 2011-04-23 16:17:53 <ForceDestroyer> Diablo-D3: Well, not with substancial length
1742 2011-04-23 16:18:07 <Diablo-D3> ForceDestroyer: I dunno, I think I remember someone saying they found one with 5
1743 2011-04-23 16:18:09 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: no make -f makefile.unix only builds bitcoin by default
1744 2011-04-23 16:18:12 <programe> jgarzik: nvm, ill try to compile pushpool on linux hehe
1745 2011-04-23 16:18:15 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: you sure?
1746 2011-04-23 16:18:19 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: thats a broken makefile then
1747 2011-04-23 16:18:21 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: yes
1748 2011-04-23 16:18:23 <ArtForz> ForceDestroyer: everyone else has no clue which one is legit, so effectivcely you'll have the "insurance" miner working against the rest of the network + the attacker
1749 2011-04-23 16:18:29 <jaromil> i'm just back from gardening, now bbq :D
1750 2011-04-23 16:18:36 <ArtForz> as the attackers chain is now longer, the rest of the network thinks *his* chain is legit
1751 2011-04-23 16:18:43 <ForceDestroyer> Well, it's not that bad if such a system fires every once in a while. Ultimately, attackers won't even try, where's the point in trying if they know what stands ready?
1752 2011-04-23 16:18:43 <Diablo-D3> properly written makefiles need to hit all normal targets
1753 2011-04-23 16:18:44 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: line all: bitcoin could be changed to all: bitcoin bitcoind, fairly easy fix
1754 2011-04-23 16:19:02 <ArtForz> ForceDestroyer: if you know what stands ready, it's easy to calculate what you need to beat it
1755 2011-04-23 16:19:02 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: yes, I already thought it said that
1756 2011-04-23 16:19:07 <BlueMatt> but the build process is being redone anyway
1757 2011-04-23 16:19:10 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
1758 2011-04-23 16:19:10 jgarzik has joined
1759 2011-04-23 16:19:38 <ForceDestroyer> So all we need is a funding that can beat any existing system within some factor * the time between blocks. That's not impossible.
1760 2011-04-23 16:19:54 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1761 2011-04-23 16:19:55 <jgarzik> @ $1.50!
1762 2011-04-23 16:19:57 <jgarzik> whee
1763 2011-04-23 16:20:01 <ForceDestroyer> Also, I would expect future miners to be upgraded to not jump to secret chains popping up from nowhere
1764 2011-04-23 16:20:10 <Diablo-D3> shit whats the bot command for mgtox shit
1765 2011-04-23 16:20:15 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: OMFG
1766 2011-04-23 16:20:24 <chmod755> ;;bc,mtgox
1767 2011-04-23 16:20:24 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.5,"low":1.26,"vol":41998,"buy":1.4209,"sell":1.499,"last":1.4895}}
1768 2011-04-23 16:20:31 <Diablo-D3> my dick is erect.
1769 2011-04-23 16:21:02 * BlueMatt punches the big buyer in the face
1770 2011-04-23 16:22:04 <ForceDestroyer> Okay, I'm no longer afraid of hashrate falling if tx limit should disappear. Building and funding an emergency system, that's something humans can do.
1771 2011-04-23 16:22:21 <ForceDestroyer> In fact, that's an awesome conclusion. tx fees might remain very low :o
1772 2011-04-23 16:23:04 <ArtForz> I dont think it'll work, but whatever
1773 2011-04-23 16:23:11 <ForceDestroyer> Why not?
1774 2011-04-23 16:23:17 s082192 is now known as fimp
1775 2011-04-23 16:23:18 <Diablo-D3> THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR ALWAYS WINS
1776 2011-04-23 16:23:20 <Diablo-D3> MWHAHAHAHAHAH
1777 2011-04-23 16:23:35 <ForceDestroyer> I see you wouldn't *like* it to work, you're a big miner, right? ^^
1778 2011-04-23 16:23:43 <jaromil> only because chuck norris uses dollars
1779 2011-04-23 16:23:47 <ArtForz> well, you only vaguely describe how it could work, write a spec and implement it, just don't come whining when someone breaks your not-quite-bitcoin
1780 2011-04-23 16:23:49 <jaromil> if chuck stops using dollars
1781 2011-04-23 16:23:58 <Diablo-D3> chuck norris doesnt use money
1782 2011-04-23 16:24:16 <Diablo-D3> he just stares at vending machines until they spit candy at him
1783 2011-04-23 16:24:27 <ArtForz> if there is a better way to implement distributed timestamping without throwing huge amounts of cpu power at it, great!
1784 2011-04-23 16:25:13 <Diablo-D3> ntp
1785 2011-04-23 16:25:15 * Diablo-D3 runs
1786 2011-04-23 16:25:32 <jaromil> chuck norris can mine a bitcoin block with an abacus
1787 2011-04-23 16:25:33 <ForceDestroyer> ArtForz: very simple. Miners, just like now, that remain inactive. Should a valid fork appear with a substantial delay, activate and mine for the older chain.
1788 2011-04-23 16:25:50 <ArtForz> and why would miners do that?
1789 2011-04-23 16:25:54 <Diablo-D3> jaromil: yeah, but the abacus usually bursts into flames after the first few khash
1790 2011-04-23 16:26:06 <ArtForz> leaving massive piles of hardware sitting around unused isn't exactly free
1791 2011-04-23 16:26:07 <ForceDestroyer> 'cause big BTC investors will pay for it
1792 2011-04-23 16:26:08 <lianj> yikes, this cpp is so ugly
1793 2011-04-23 16:26:57 <ForceDestroyer> Uhm, I don't say they leave them sitting unused otherwise. Might be supercomputers that work priority-based, or even people manually jumping in 'cause they don't like fraud
1794 2011-04-23 16:27:18 <ForceDestroyer> Also, it would make sense for all normal miners to have the code. No reason to throw away the older, valid chain
1795 2011-04-23 16:27:49 <ForceDestroyer> Especially not if there's someone who will hammer it through anyways when things get real ;)
1796 2011-04-23 16:28:36 <ArtForz> except using general purpose hardwarer for mining is near pointless
1797 2011-04-23 16:29:08 <ForceDestroyer> True. But GPU farms should become more feasible in the future, or hashing problems altogether
1798 2011-04-23 16:29:09 lulzplzkthx has quit (Quit: leaving)
1799 2011-04-23 16:29:14 lulzplzkthx has joined
1800 2011-04-23 16:29:15 <jaromil> lianj: its barely 3 years old. stop complaining and clean the poop :)
1801 2011-04-23 16:29:26 <ArtForz> GPU farms lose to dedicated hadrware. badly.
1802 2011-04-23 16:29:31 <ForceDestroyer> I'm not trying to think about hardware in over a decade... we still have lots of fresh BTC to be mined.
1803 2011-04-23 16:29:39 <ArtForz> currently no one does it because the scale is too small to make it worthwile
1804 2011-04-23 16:29:52 <ForceDestroyer> Okay, dedicated, then. Whatever, it's in the far future int erms of hardware
1805 2011-04-23 16:29:55 <ArtForz> once we have a few Th/s, it *will* happen
1806 2011-04-23 16:29:59 <topi`> ArtForz: but you can play games with GPUs, that's not the case with dedicated hashing HW :)
1807 2011-04-23 16:30:12 <ArtForz> true
1808 2011-04-23 16:30:36 <ArtForz> thing is, once you are willing to invest $10M or so, you can have obscene amounts of hashrate
1809 2011-04-23 16:30:46 <lianj> jaromil: hehe true. but when one does there should be a reusable bitcoin.so
1810 2011-04-23 16:30:50 <ForceDestroyer> This is only a problem if the attacker has dedicated hardware, but the insurance company can't get a hold of it. "unlikely" is an understatement.
1811 2011-04-23 16:31:02 programe has quit (Ping timeout: 251 seconds)
1812 2011-04-23 16:31:52 <ForceDestroyer> Hm. 10M USD, that's not much. This might become a problem right now, no? ... wait, on second thought, such a person would rather mine right now than break Bitcoin altogether
1813 2011-04-23 16:32:26 <ArtForz> except with your changed rules you can't do anything with that much hardware *except attack the network*
1814 2011-04-23 16:32:46 <ArtForz> thats essentially the same thing as your insurance company is doing
1815 2011-04-23 16:33:03 <ArtForz> and the real fun starts if theres more than 1 of em
1816 2011-04-23 16:33:19 <jaromil> lianj: we are all looking forward to that. autotool and libtool build sys is the first step
1817 2011-04-23 16:33:48 <jaromil> IMHO something to start get busy is doxyfy it
1818 2011-04-23 16:33:58 <jaromil> i'll do it myself if noone those first
1819 2011-04-23 16:33:58 <ForceDestroyer> Why, isn't that even better? As long as they all jump in the moment someone tries to revert something, multiple insurance clusters reduce the chance of a single one going nuts
1820 2011-04-23 16:34:58 <ForceDestroyer> I don't see a problem anymore. â(ï¿£ã¼ï¿£)â
1821 2011-04-23 16:35:22 <ArtForz> send double-spend to merchants being on competing insurance companies, watch the fireworks?
1822 2011-04-23 16:35:25 ahbritto has joined
1823 2011-04-23 16:35:37 xlogik has joined
1824 2011-04-23 16:36:11 <ForceDestroyer> The insurance companies need not care about *who* is involved
1825 2011-04-23 16:36:30 <ForceDestroyer> Might be good in terms of the market, but a single fund to block all attacks is better for everybody
1826 2011-04-23 16:36:39 <ArtForz> so.. back to central authority it is
1827 2011-04-23 16:36:47 <jgarzik> heh
1828 2011-04-23 16:36:54 <ForceDestroyer> No, it can be many. they just all vow to block all attacks
1829 2011-04-23 16:37:01 FabianB has joined
1830 2011-04-23 16:37:06 <devrandom_> ForceDestroyer ArtForz - I think there a way to handle compute attacks without extra compute power
1831 2011-04-23 16:37:22 <ForceDestroyer> Ha, it gets even better? :)
1832 2011-04-23 16:37:30 <ArtForz> and how do they agree which of two transactions was a double spend? oh... right...
1833 2011-04-23 16:37:34 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1834 2011-04-23 16:38:01 <ForceDestroyer> Always take the one that arrived first on a set of well-connected nodes of the company?
1835 2011-04-23 16:38:02 <devrandom_> instead of extra compute power, have a way to give established miners a difficulty divider in an emergency
1836 2011-04-23 16:38:19 <ForceDestroyer> THAT IS AWESOME
1837 2011-04-23 16:38:29 <devrandom_> the way to identify established miners is them having access to old coinbase keys
1838 2011-04-23 16:38:33 <ForceDestroyer> THAT IS SO AWESOME MY HEAD IS BIRNIN'
1839 2011-04-23 16:38:35 <ArtForz> ForceDestroyer: again, if that worked, why is no one doing it?
1840 2011-04-23 16:38:39 <ForceDestroyer> *burnin
1841 2011-04-23 16:39:19 <ForceDestroyer> ArtForz: I'm thinking in the context of a hashrate crash after tx limit was removed and BTC generateion died down
1842 2011-04-23 16:39:22 <devrandom_> I don't think a central authority is a good idea
1843 2011-04-23 16:39:43 <ArtForz> so you need a set of central insurance companies, with lots of connections, that all collaborate somehow... sounds like a central authority alright
1844 2011-04-23 16:40:14 <ForceDestroyer> For the love of everything, devrandom_, can you provide specs for that / proove it can't be exploited?
1845 2011-04-23 16:40:19 CodePHP is now known as php_doctor_who
1846 2011-04-23 16:40:53 <ArtForz> sounds like a WoT system with some p2p sprinkled on top
1847 2011-04-23 16:40:59 <jgarzik> yep
1848 2011-04-23 16:41:07 <devrandom_> yeah
1849 2011-04-23 16:41:18 <ArtForz> yep, that could work
1850 2011-04-23 16:42:14 <devrandom_> have to have a way to declare the emergency without a model hazard for the miners
1851 2011-04-23 16:42:25 DavidSJ has joined
1852 2011-04-23 16:42:29 <devrandom_> maybe the developers can declare it with their pubkeys
1853 2011-04-23 16:42:43 <BlueMatt> satoshi already can
1854 2011-04-23 16:42:46 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1855 2011-04-23 16:42:54 <jgarzik> devrandom_: alert system exists
1856 2011-04-23 16:43:08 <ForceDestroyer> Wait, wait wait wait stop I think there's a problem
1857 2011-04-23 16:43:22 <ForceDestroyer> I was talking about a time in which BTC is funded by transaction fees
1858 2011-04-23 16:43:24 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: is satoshi still the only one with the key?
1859 2011-04-23 16:43:46 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: AFAIK, yes
1860 2011-04-23 16:43:48 <ForceDestroyer> dropping defficulty will not increase rewards, you will need to use something that demands tx fees
1861 2011-04-23 16:43:52 pirrr has joined
1862 2011-04-23 16:43:58 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I think it's reasonable to put a gavin key in there, though, IMO
1863 2011-04-23 16:44:01 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: shouldnt gavin/you be given that key?
1864 2011-04-23 16:44:19 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: gavin should generate a second key, and keep it to himself
1865 2011-04-23 16:44:29 <BlueMatt> I agree
1866 2011-04-23 16:44:40 <devrandom_> ForceDestroyer - having a difficulty divider (or work multipler) gives more weight to the legitimate chain
1867 2011-04-23 16:44:42 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1868 2011-04-23 16:44:47 <ArtForz> yep, I agree, as keeper of the git(tm), gavin should have a alert key
1869 2011-04-23 16:44:55 <ForceDestroyer> Ah, I see
1870 2011-04-23 16:45:03 <pirrr> Hello, I am back :). I have a new question: are lost bitcoins lost forever and has there been thought about this? For example, if I die and had 100 bitcoins, these would be lost...
1871 2011-04-23 16:45:17 <ArtForz> yep, lost bitcoins are lost
1872 2011-04-23 16:45:24 <BlueMatt> pirrr: if you lose your wallet.dat, they are gone...period
1873 2011-04-23 16:45:38 <ArtForz> would be "somewhat" simple to fix, but thats pretty controversial
1874 2011-04-23 16:45:39 <ForceDestroyer> But then, we replace the computational power approach by a web of trust. We,, actually, I'm fine with that -- that's the way I'd have done a p2p currency before I heard of Bitcoin :3
1875 2011-04-23 16:46:13 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: CAlert::CheckSignature in main.h
1876 2011-04-23 16:46:18 <DavidSJ> You could just give 10% of your private key to 10 different people you trust.
1877 2011-04-23 16:46:29 <devrandom_> it will just be a temporary multiplier in emergencies... it wouldn't be a permanent modification
1878 2011-04-23 16:46:32 <DavidSJ> With instructions to combine if you die.
1879 2011-04-23 16:46:38 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: a. what about you? b. has gavin ever made any comment on this?
1880 2011-04-23 16:46:44 <pirrr> A real puzzle if I die :D.
1881 2011-04-23 16:46:49 <pirrr> Work for you money bitches :D
1882 2011-04-23 16:46:56 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I don't want a key, or that power :)
1883 2011-04-23 16:47:03 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: dunno about Gavin comments
1884 2011-04-23 16:47:29 <DavidSJ> ForceDestroyer: it might be really hard to change the trust model once it's well-established, so I think it's worth thinking a lot about it now.
1885 2011-04-23 16:47:30 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: you dont want it, but that is the best kind of person to give it too...plus Id bet gavin would be of similar opinion for himself
1886 2011-04-23 16:47:43 <ArtForz> and it's not much power anyways
1887 2011-04-23 16:47:44 <ForceDestroyer> DavidSJ: strong agree.
1888 2011-04-23 16:47:57 skeledrew has joined
1889 2011-04-23 16:48:17 <jgarzik> ForceDestroyer: WoT systems bootstrap terribly, and don't scale
1890 2011-04-23 16:48:21 <ArtForz> it "only" allows remotely disabling rpc sends
1891 2011-04-23 16:48:31 <ForceDestroyer> We shouldn't forget that after coin generation, the only purpose of miners is to check transactions and fend off attacks, with the latter being the expensive part
1892 2011-04-23 16:48:35 <ArtForz> and is disabled with a single cmdline switch
1893 2011-04-23 16:48:38 <jgarzik> it's actually easier to bootstrap WoT on top of bitcoin or another untrusted system
1894 2011-04-23 16:48:49 lulzplzkthx has joined
1895 2011-04-23 16:49:05 <ArtForz> ForceDestroyer: yep
1896 2011-04-23 16:49:10 <ArtForz> jgarzik: agreed
1897 2011-04-23 16:49:47 <ForceDestroyer> That, in turn, means it doesn't sound reasonable to use all computing power at all times. A network powering up during an attack is the natural choice
1898 2011-04-23 16:50:21 <jgarzik> ForceDestroyer: it's reasonable to maximize your return, by using all computing power at all times?
1899 2011-04-23 16:50:25 <jgarzik> who knew? :)
1900 2011-04-23 16:50:57 <ForceDestroyer> You assume Bitcoin is the only useful thing hardware can du. that's, sorry, kind of absurd
1901 2011-04-23 16:50:59 <ArtForz> I think with a "proper" WoT system, you don't *need* compute power
1902 2011-04-23 16:51:03 <ForceDestroyer> *do
1903 2011-04-23 16:52:01 <lianj> from addresses, "Version = 1 byte of 0 (zero); on the test network, this is 1 byte of 111" is a bit misleading. sources say its 1 unsigned byte with a value of 111.
1904 2011-04-23 16:52:18 <ForceDestroyer> Well, I'm off now... I hope this'll end in a resonable solution, but as mad as it sounds, the insurance system plus a warning system in the client sounds like a fallback that won't fail, so I have nothing to warn investors about. Thanks for the chat.
1905 2011-04-23 16:52:56 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1908 2011-04-23 16:55:53 <jrbaldwin> if i were to start a seperate bitcoin service on a seperate network (not connected to internet) and then set up an exchange rate between regular bitcoin and this other system, is that possible or logical?
1909 2011-04-23 16:56:29 <ArtForz> well, thats just a bank
1910 2011-04-23 16:56:39 <pirrr> Your new network would be less safe I'd guess... to begin with.
1911 2011-04-23 16:56:43 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
1912 2011-04-23 16:57:15 f3n is now known as f3ndot
1913 2011-04-23 16:57:59 <jrbaldwin> it would be for a mesh network that calculates coins based on amount packets users forward in network
1914 2011-04-23 16:58:11 <jrbaldwin> i am not sure if that is logical
1915 2011-04-23 16:58:29 <jrbaldwin> or based on number of neighbors in mesh
1916 2011-04-23 16:58:30 <ArtForz> no, sounds logical
1917 2011-04-23 16:58:51 <jrbaldwin> it's theoretical at the moment
1918 2011-04-23 16:58:59 <jrbaldwin> part of a larger mesh incentive
1919 2011-04-23 16:59:08 <ArtForz> well, the tricky part will be accounting I guess
1920 2011-04-23 16:59:28 <ArtForz> can't do cycles-secured like bitcoin as theres not much incentive
1921 2011-04-23 16:59:41 toffoo has joined
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1923 2011-04-23 16:59:47 <ArtForz> so you'd need either a trusted central "keeper of the balances" or some kind of WoT
1924 2011-04-23 16:59:48 <jrbaldwin> hmm
1925 2011-04-23 16:59:55 <jrbaldwin> WoT?
1926 2011-04-23 16:59:59 <ArtForz> Web of Trust
1927 2011-04-23 17:00:06 <jrbaldwin> ah yes that would be ideal
1928 2011-04-23 17:00:14 <jrbaldwin> how would that be implemented conceptually
1929 2011-04-23 17:00:21 <ArtForz> hrrrm... maybe something kinda like ripple?
1930 2011-04-23 17:00:52 <jrbaldwin> like, constantly checking numbers against each node?
1931 2011-04-23 17:01:14 <jrbaldwin> in the way that mesh networks handshake each node for identification?
1932 2011-04-23 17:02:00 <ArtForz> yeah
1933 2011-04-23 17:02:05 <ArtForz> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_monetary_system
1934 2011-04-23 17:02:37 <jrbaldwin> yes, this sounds great
1935 2011-04-23 17:02:37 sethsethseth____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1936 2011-04-23 17:02:39 sethsethseth has joined
1937 2011-04-23 17:03:13 <jrbaldwin> so what if there are fragmented mesh networks that aren't accountable to each other but use the same consistent coin calculations
1938 2011-04-23 17:03:37 manifold has joined
1939 2011-04-23 17:03:40 <jrbaldwin> do you think they would remain sound against each other's value?
1940 2011-04-23 17:03:51 <ArtForz> dunno, I'd *guess* so
1941 2011-04-23 17:04:05 <jrbaldwin> yeah that would require some real world testing
1942 2011-04-23 17:04:10 <jrbaldwin> alright, thank you!
1943 2011-04-23 17:04:12 <ArtForz> np
1944 2011-04-23 17:04:19 <ktrade> How serious is the originator about declaring a push to larger block sizes?
1945 2011-04-23 17:04:44 <ArtForz> mesh network just sounded like a ideal application for something like ripple, as you already have a physical "proximity graph"
1946 2011-04-23 17:05:16 <jrbaldwin> yeah, i think that might be the only way to create a WoT for something so decentralized...
1947 2011-04-23 17:05:54 Tarlusk has left ()
1948 2011-04-23 17:05:56 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1949 2011-04-23 17:06:23 <ArtForz> and I'd guess it's easier to trust your real-world neighbors to settle their debt to you than "some random dude on the internet"
1950 2011-04-23 17:06:43 <jrbaldwin> hah yes
1951 2011-04-23 17:07:14 <ArtForz> threat of physical violence keeps people honest, news at 11 ;)
1952 2011-04-23 17:07:27 <jrbaldwin> lol
1953 2011-04-23 17:08:43 <ArtForz> kinda interesting really
1954 2011-04-23 17:09:05 <jrbaldwin> its part of a larger thesis
1955 2011-04-23 17:09:14 manifold has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1956 2011-04-23 17:09:15 <jrbaldwin> we'll see how it turns out :0
1957 2011-04-23 17:10:12 Teslah has joined
1958 2011-04-23 17:11:02 Teslah has quit (Client Quit)
1959 2011-04-23 17:12:23 <ArtForz> argh, a watched block never boils or something
1960 2011-04-23 17:13:12 <BlueMatt> tcatm: bitcoincharts down?
1961 2011-04-23 17:14:09 <grbgout> http://isitup.org/bitcoincharts.com
1962 2011-04-23 17:14:44 <BlueMatt> yes, its down, hence the asking of tcatm
1963 2011-04-23 17:15:05 <grbgout> If you were sure, then why did you ask?
1964 2011-04-23 17:15:39 <BlueMatt> maybe its only down for everyone outside of tcatm's network due to network troubles?
1965 2011-04-23 17:16:10 <devrandom_> hi BlueMatt
1966 2011-04-23 17:16:11 <grbgout> hence the provided link. If it's specific to you, or me, that link provides yet another 'set of eyes'.
1967 2011-04-23 17:16:18 jrbaldwin has left ()
1968 2011-04-23 17:16:29 <BlueMatt> ok, fine shouldnt have added the ?
1969 2011-04-23 17:16:33 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: hi
1970 2011-04-23 17:16:45 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: saw you added me to the github...
1971 2011-04-23 17:17:02 <BlueMatt> Ive been meaning to getting around to adding my gpg key...I suppose I can go do that now
1972 2011-04-23 17:17:03 <devrandom_> I did?
1973 2011-04-23 17:17:23 <devrandom_> oh yeah, I did, a while ago
1974 2011-04-23 17:17:39 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: yea the -release one
1975 2011-04-23 17:17:58 <devrandom_> do you think gavin will be on later today?
1976 2011-04-23 17:18:09 <BlueMatt> no way to know
1977 2011-04-23 17:18:12 <devrandom_> seems difficult to have all three of us on at the same time
1978 2011-04-23 17:18:32 <BlueMatt> the time difference does make it hard
1979 2011-04-23 17:18:32 <devrandom_> there's was a fourth person that you wanted to discuss build process with?
1980 2011-04-23 17:18:42 <grbgout> devrandom_: maybe start a PM on the forum that includes all three?
1981 2011-04-23 17:18:48 programele has joined
1982 2011-04-23 17:18:53 <BlueMatt> or a public thread
1983 2011-04-23 17:19:05 <BlueMatt> I just find it easier to handle it on here, but the forum works just fine as well
1984 2011-04-23 17:19:15 <grbgout> BlueMatt: indeed, but be sure to point him to the public thread so it doesn't go unseen.
1985 2011-04-23 17:19:27 zooko has joined
1986 2011-04-23 17:19:29 <devrandom_> so what are the main questions? or we are still in brainstorming mode?
1987 2011-04-23 17:20:26 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: mostly just if we should start doing bitcoin builds in gitian (or signing the official releases that is)
1988 2011-04-23 17:21:05 <devrandom_> how about "yes"? ;)
1989 2011-04-23 17:21:08 <BlueMatt> also, have you given any thought to win deterministic building...its no where near the same, but some kind of build archive like what I posted a while ago might do
1990 2011-04-23 17:21:30 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1991 2011-04-23 17:21:42 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: I guess its more of a "please do" not a should we
1992 2011-04-23 17:21:48 DukeOfURL has joined
1993 2011-04-23 17:22:11 <devrandom_> ok
1994 2011-04-23 17:22:44 <devrandom_> regarding windows, I think cross-compiling would be ideal
1995 2011-04-23 17:23:12 <BlueMatt> that would work pretty well too...has anyone here ever successfully built bitcoin in a cross compile?
1996 2011-04-23 17:29:15 <dotblank> does it build on mingw?
1997 2011-04-23 17:30:02 <BlueMatt> yea, done know about building all of wx + boost on mingw on linux...sounds like a pita
1998 2011-04-23 17:30:03 tcatm has joined
1999 2011-04-23 17:31:05 citiz3n has joined
2000 2011-04-23 17:33:01 <dotblank> ugh boost..
2001 2011-04-23 17:33:05 <dotblank> pita
2002 2011-04-23 17:33:15 <BlueMatt> thats what I was thinking
2003 2011-04-23 17:33:57 <BlueMatt> does bjam run on mingw on linux?
2004 2011-04-23 17:34:32 xlogik has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2005 2011-04-23 17:34:45 <dotblank> I do.. never tried x compiling boost
2006 2011-04-23 17:36:08 <BlueMatt> ok boost looks doable: http://www.boost.org/boost-build2/doc/html/bbv2/tasks/crosscompile.html
2007 2011-04-23 17:36:20 B0g4r7 has joined
2008 2011-04-23 17:36:33 <dotblank> lol
2009 2011-04-23 17:36:37 <dotblank> that looks easy
2010 2011-04-23 17:36:43 <johnlockwood> boost is fun
2011 2011-04-23 17:36:43 <BlueMatt> http://wiki.wxwidgets.org/Cross-Compiling_Under_Linux
2012 2011-04-23 17:36:47 <BlueMatt> I guess its all doable
2013 2011-04-23 17:36:56 <BlueMatt> in theory, in practice still probably a pita
2014 2011-04-23 17:37:15 <dotblank> I tried cross compiling qt
2015 2011-04-23 17:37:31 <dotblank> You can easily do it for embedded Qt but.. for windows
2016 2011-04-23 17:37:45 <dotblank> it is a nightmare
2017 2011-04-23 17:37:53 <B0g4r7> I can't say I've ever cross-compiled anything...
2018 2011-04-23 17:38:15 <dotblank> I cross compile about everything
2019 2011-04-23 17:38:15 <B0g4r7> Ppl did it all the time to make binaries that ran on their PPC-based TiVos.
2020 2011-04-23 17:38:21 <BlueMatt> thats what Im imaging it will be with boost + wx, plus in this case it has to be done deterministically so...
2021 2011-04-23 17:38:54 <dotblank> I would do an easy cross compile though.. going for x86 to arm on linux isnt that bad
2022 2011-04-23 17:39:52 <dotblank> I don't touch windows with a 10 foot theoretical programming pole.
2023 2011-04-23 17:40:04 <dotblank> I cannot do development in windows.. its too much of a pita
2024 2011-04-23 17:40:20 <BlueMatt> I tend to agree
2025 2011-04-23 17:40:27 <B0g4r7> heh...I used to do it.
2026 2011-04-23 17:40:37 <B0g4r7> Yes, it sucked.
2027 2011-04-23 17:40:58 <BlueMatt> Although I love quite a bit of the gui stuff they did on win7 for usability, but still would never use it as primary os
2028 2011-04-23 17:41:18 <B0g4r7> Too many hazards on Win.
2029 2011-04-23 17:41:48 <B0g4r7> And too much stuff missing that should be built-in?
2030 2011-04-23 17:41:50 <gjs278> I crosscompile gtk all of the time
2031 2011-04-23 17:41:52 <gjs278> really easy
2032 2011-04-23 17:42:22 <B0g4r7> s/\?/\./
2033 2011-04-23 17:42:50 <dotblank> I get through compiling something and I run into a sang and its because I am running windows 7 instead of xp.
2034 2011-04-23 17:42:56 <dotblank> snag*
2035 2011-04-23 17:43:51 <BlueMatt> ms moved onto win7 and yet so much still just never got working past xp
2036 2011-04-23 17:44:05 <BlueMatt> much rather move to linux after that anyway
2037 2011-04-23 17:44:33 <B0g4r7> Windows would be better if it came with cygwin out of the box.
2038 2011-04-23 17:44:48 <dotblank> Multiple architectures are a HUGE problem for windows
2039 2011-04-23 17:44:51 <BlueMatt> or just ms put in some time to make it more unix-like
2040 2011-04-23 17:44:56 <dotblank> windows isnt even half 64 bit
2041 2011-04-23 17:45:06 programele has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2042 2011-04-23 17:45:13 <BlueMatt> yea this whole win8 on arm thing is gonna cause so many problems
2043 2011-04-23 17:45:31 <BlueMatt> I cant imagine it going smoothly
2044 2011-04-23 17:45:45 <dotblank> its no big deal recompiling stuff on linux for 64 bit
2045 2011-04-23 17:46:03 <dotblank> in fact its nearly automatic
2046 2011-04-23 17:46:05 <ForceDestroyer> So it is decided it will ne win 8, not win.next midori-based?
2047 2011-04-23 17:46:08 <ForceDestroyer> *be
2048 2011-04-23 17:46:29 <BlueMatt> what?
2049 2011-04-23 17:46:40 <BlueMatt> win.next?
2050 2011-04-23 17:47:03 <ForceDestroyer> There are ongoing speculations that the next operating system by Microsoft stems from Singularity, with Windows being the lecacy-area
2051 2011-04-23 17:47:20 <ForceDestroyer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_%28operating_system%29
2052 2011-04-23 17:47:24 <BlueMatt> ForceDestroyer: no, win8 builds have already been leaking out
2053 2011-04-23 17:47:38 <dotblank> I thought I saw leaked screenshots of win8. looked like windows7 to me
2054 2011-04-23 17:47:44 <BlueMatt> no its still nt-based iirc
2055 2011-04-23 17:47:54 <dotblank> is vista+ nt based?
2056 2011-04-23 17:47:57 <Diablo-D3> 8 is just 7 with theme changes to make it match windows phone 7
2057 2011-04-23 17:47:58 <ForceDestroyer> Curse them, how much longer are they taking with this -_____- argh
2058 2011-04-23 17:48:04 <Diablo-D3> dotblank: yes, vista/7 are nt 5.x
2059 2011-04-23 17:48:08 <BlueMatt> everything after nt is nt kernel based
2060 2011-04-23 17:48:36 <Diablo-D3> singularity/midori will never come to pass
2061 2011-04-23 17:48:40 <BlueMatt> dotblank: the first leaked build was just win7 with changes under the hood. The 2nd one looked a ton like win phone 7
2062 2011-04-23 17:48:47 <BlueMatt> at least the login
2063 2011-04-23 17:48:47 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: what?
2064 2011-04-23 17:49:03 <ArtForz> if you mean that NT is NT, yes
2065 2011-04-23 17:49:07 <ForceDestroyer> Every OS is based on something ages old. I'm very annoyed by that. Singularity plus modern APIs and driver approaches... superior to every OS in existance, but they just can't do it.
2066 2011-04-23 17:49:26 <dotblank> Well I think windows set themselves up for a huge fall.. They dug themselves into the x86 hole
2067 2011-04-23 17:49:42 <BlueMatt> ms could never do anything to break backward compat. thats why vista failed so hard
2068 2011-04-23 17:49:44 <ForceDestroyer> I was hoping the ARM compatibility was a by-product of the new OS. I'm very disappointed now :(
2069 2011-04-23 17:50:12 <ArtForz> they do break backward compat, they just try really hard to avoid it
2070 2011-04-23 17:50:14 <dotblank> I don't know much about singularity
2071 2011-04-23 17:50:31 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: I meant the kernel in every windows release after nt (including nt) has been some form of the nt kernel
2072 2011-04-23 17:50:35 <ForceDestroyer> And what was that stupid Ballmer quote on "riskiest new project: the next version of Windows"? Blah. *FD is angry*
2073 2011-04-23 17:50:37 <ArtForz> Me ?
2074 2011-04-23 17:50:46 <ArtForz> that certainly was *after* nt
2075 2011-04-23 17:50:55 toffoo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2076 2011-04-23 17:50:56 <ArtForz> and it still was 9x line
2077 2011-04-23 17:51:02 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: what did you mean by that comment?
2078 2011-04-23 17:51:04 <ArtForz> hell, it was after 4.0
2079 2011-04-23 17:51:10 progre has joined
2080 2011-04-23 17:51:14 <ArtForz> "kernel in every windows release after nt"
2081 2011-04-23 17:51:18 <ArtForz> which nt? 3.5?
2082 2011-04-23 17:51:30 <ForceDestroyer> BlueMatt: Windows Me and 98 were released after NT but older kernel-wise
2083 2011-04-23 17:51:31 <ArtForz> then there were 98 and Me after it, both certainly not NT kernels
2084 2011-04-23 17:51:44 <ArtForz> and various CEs
2085 2011-04-23 17:51:53 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: Sorry, I meant xp and after
2086 2011-04-23 17:52:02 <ArtForz> well, you can actually say 2k and after
2087 2011-04-23 17:52:12 <dotblank> vista isn't driver compatable with xp or 2000
2088 2011-04-23 17:52:38 <BlueMatt> dotblank: some drivers worked just fine...the majority didnt
2089 2011-04-23 17:52:44 <ArtForz> XP was basically 2000 SE with bubblegum ui and wifi support
2090 2011-04-23 17:53:00 <BlueMatt> and it has stuck around ever since
2091 2011-04-23 17:53:03 koolfy has joined
2092 2011-04-23 17:53:11 <koolfy> heya
2093 2011-04-23 17:53:21 <koolfy> trying out spesmilo
2094 2011-04-23 17:53:26 <BlueMatt> xp has turned into ms's original vision that they would release xp and just keep updating it without ever coming out with a new version
2095 2011-04-23 17:53:31 <koolfy> the "use internal core" checkbox is greyed out
2096 2011-04-23 17:53:41 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ^
2097 2011-04-23 17:53:46 <ArtForz> well, not quite
2098 2011-04-23 17:53:50 <koolfy> how can I use the internal core, or the bitcoind I run on the same machine?
2099 2011-04-23 17:54:01 manveru has joined
2100 2011-04-23 17:54:03 alkor has joined
2101 2011-04-23 17:54:04 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: aside from the whole updating thing
2102 2011-04-23 17:54:13 <ArtForz> there were various big changes in the kernel and driver subsystems, pretty much like 2.4 to 2.6
2103 2011-04-23 17:54:31 <koolfy> w
2104 2011-04-23 17:54:31 <ArtForz> which is fine, who expects anyone to completely rewrite a OS for every major release?
2105 2011-04-23 17:54:51 <dotblank> yea.. good point but driver compatability/usability went up in 2.6
2106 2011-04-23 17:55:24 <dotblank> 2.4 is still maintained for some embedded systems and old computer compatability
2107 2011-04-23 17:55:45 <BlueMatt> oh well, this is all before my time anyway...all I know is ms is not happy that xp is sticking around and no one wants to upgrade
2108 2011-04-23 17:55:57 <ArtForz> same way 5.x based kernels are still around for embedded ;)
2109 2011-04-23 17:56:01 <dotblank> eh MS camp can do what they want
2110 2011-04-23 17:56:09 <gjs278> I hate vista/7
2111 2011-04-23 17:56:26 <gjs278> the rounding and transparency makes me angry
2112 2011-04-23 17:56:30 <ArtForz> they're not THAT bad
2113 2011-04-23 17:56:33 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2114 2011-04-23 17:56:34 <BlueMatt> I like the ui (for the most part) on 7, but the actual os just doesnt work right
2115 2011-04-23 17:56:35 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.5,"low":1.291,"vol":45070,"buy":1.4704,"sell":1.4989,"last":1.4703}}
2116 2011-04-23 17:56:36 <dotblank> I don't really care.. I only care when the stomp out stuff like Qt and meego
2117 2011-04-23 17:56:42 <ArtForz> then... switch it off
2118 2011-04-23 17:56:42 <ForceDestroyer> Don't underestimate the Singularity project. Yes, Windows fails hard against Linux, but that thing is just beautiful.
2119 2011-04-23 17:56:50 <dotblank> when they*
2120 2011-04-23 17:56:51 <ArtForz> my win7 here looks like win2k
2121 2011-04-23 17:56:52 <BlueMatt> I dont really care for the transparency, but the usability is quite nice
2122 2011-04-23 17:57:01 <gjs278> I want it to look like windows xp
2123 2011-04-23 17:57:04 <gjs278> I couldn't get it
2124 2011-04-23 17:57:08 <BlueMatt> like the whole drag window to the side and such
2125 2011-04-23 17:57:09 <gjs278> I could get classic for sure
2126 2011-04-23 17:57:12 <ForceDestroyer> I hoped something of the kind would come, I don't even care whether it's open source or not as much
2127 2011-04-23 17:57:30 <gjs278> the other main issue is I couldn't get a good version of skype working
2128 2011-04-23 17:57:33 <koolfy> so.. nobody using spesmilo here, yet ? :/
2129 2011-04-23 17:57:34 <gjs278> that's skype's fault
2130 2011-04-23 17:57:38 <dotblank> I think open source is a big deal.. makes things much more portable
2131 2011-04-23 17:57:38 <ArtForz> the snap-to-half-fullscreen-on-side can be turned off
2132 2011-04-23 17:57:47 <BlueMatt> koolfy: most people dont, ask luke-jr the dev
2133 2011-04-23 17:57:53 <ArtForz> you can even enable old-style outlines instead of transarency for window dragging
2134 2011-04-23 17:57:54 <koolfy> ok
2135 2011-04-23 17:58:13 <ArtForz> pretty useful over VNC
2136 2011-04-23 17:58:16 <gjs278> also ctrl+alt+delete not bringing up task manager
2137 2011-04-23 17:58:17 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: the snap-to-half,etc stuff is really nice, who wouldnt want that?
2138 2011-04-23 17:58:27 <ArtForz> who uses ctrl-alt-del for that? ctrl-shift-esc
2139 2011-04-23 17:58:31 <gjs278> umm
2140 2011-04-23 17:58:33 <gjs278> anyone
2141 2011-04-23 17:58:33 <ArtForz> me
2142 2011-04-23 17:58:39 <gjs278> why should I have to change
2143 2011-04-23 17:58:40 <ArtForz> I hate it
2144 2011-04-23 17:58:46 <gjs278> why change the task manager hotkey
2145 2011-04-23 17:58:47 <ForceDestroyer> No usermode, brilliant security, trivial to change CPU architecture, superb interop, more control over drivers, Singularity >> everything else in my eyes. Just spamming this so people might share my grief on it not being used in the end.
2146 2011-04-23 17:58:58 <gjs278> and then not let it go back
2147 2011-04-23 17:58:59 <ArtForz> taskmgr has been ctrl-shift-esc since NT 4.0 ...
2148 2011-04-23 17:59:07 <gjs278> I've been pressing ctrl+alt+delete
2149 2011-04-23 17:59:14 <ArtForz> that only worked on XP
2150 2011-04-23 17:59:23 <gjs278> pretty sure that worked on lesser than nt even
2151 2011-04-23 17:59:24 <gjs278> like 98
2152 2011-04-23 17:59:26 <dotblank> I actually havn't tried pressing ctl+alt+delte for a really long time.. just did it now
2153 2011-04-23 17:59:33 <ArtForz> on 2k that brought up the "switch user/lock/task manager" window
2154 2011-04-23 17:59:35 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: the snap... is really useful, though it would be nice to do it with key shortcuts instead of dragging which can get anoying
2155 2011-04-23 17:59:37 <B0g4r7> One thing I dislike about Windows...is it's "resistance" to being virtualized.
2156 2011-04-23 17:59:40 <dotblank> it pops up with a shutdown menu on my linux box
2157 2011-04-23 17:59:43 alkor has quit (Quit: alkor)
2158 2011-04-23 17:59:59 <BlueMatt> B0g4r7: try virtualizing osx
2159 2011-04-23 18:00:00 <dotblank> B0g4r7, thats because its a micro kernel
2160 2011-04-23 18:00:11 <dotblank> it doesn't contain all the neededsdrivers
2161 2011-04-23 18:00:16 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: dunno, maybe it's more usful if you actually have screen borders at your screen borders
2162 2011-04-23 18:00:18 molecular has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2163 2011-04-23 18:00:25 <ArtForz> I mostly VNC into my win7 box
2164 2011-04-23 18:00:34 <B0g4r7> heh...yeah, OS X is more difficult.
2165 2011-04-23 18:00:49 <dotblank> you can have linux loaded on a harddrive and swap between machines ok but not windows
2166 2011-04-23 18:00:51 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: oh, well that would be anoying, I just vm it
2167 2011-04-23 18:00:56 <BlueMatt> unless Im gaming obviously
2168 2011-04-23 18:00:59 <B0g4r7> I keep OS X as the host OS and run Win and Lin in VMs.
2169 2011-04-23 18:01:04 <ArtForz> can't really do that
2170 2011-04-23 18:01:29 <ArtForz> I only run 7 because I have a peice of usb hardware that only has vista/7 drivers
2171 2011-04-23 18:01:30 <BlueMatt> B0g4r7: you can vm osx somewhat easily in vmware but its still way harder than win
2172 2011-04-23 18:01:47 <BlueMatt> wtf hardware is that?
2173 2011-04-23 18:01:51 <ArtForz> and it needs low latency, so usb virtualization is prety much unbearable
2174 2011-04-23 18:01:57 <dotblank> I bet it runs on linux :)
2175 2011-04-23 18:01:57 Lartza has joined
2176 2011-04-23 18:01:57 <B0g4r7> I thought VMs could "drive" USB devices directly now...
2177 2011-04-23 18:02:07 <B0g4r7> with vmware anyway
2178 2011-04-23 18:02:13 <ArtForz> yes
2179 2011-04-23 18:02:16 <ArtForz> but the latency sucks
2180 2011-04-23 18:02:36 <ArtForz> usb 500Mhz/2Gs/s digiscope
2181 2011-04-23 18:02:43 <B0g4r7> heh
2182 2011-04-23 18:02:44 <BlueMatt> thats very true, try wifi attacking in backtrack in a vm on a network of a couple hundred clients
2183 2011-04-23 18:02:59 <B0g4r7> Maybe that's why it took a week to run badblocks that way on a 2tb disk.
2184 2011-04-23 18:03:01 <BlueMatt> pita
2185 2011-04-23 18:03:03 <ArtForz> with the UI in a VM it's nearly unusable
2186 2011-04-23 18:03:08 skeledrew has joined
2187 2011-04-23 18:03:52 <BlueMatt> B0g4r7: wait you ran badblocks in a vm on a usb drive? wtf is wrong with you?
2188 2011-04-23 18:03:57 <ArtForz> well, it mroe or less works, but it lags like ass at higher update rates and infinite persistence mode is slow as fuck
2189 2011-04-23 18:04:03 <BlueMatt> though the vm shouldnt case that much problems
2190 2011-04-23 18:04:42 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: well not all of us use crazy hardware like that so...
2191 2011-04-23 18:04:46 <ArtForz> true
2192 2011-04-23 18:05:05 <ArtForz> try using a USB soundcard from a VM without huge buffers causing massive latency
2193 2011-04-23 18:05:28 <ArtForz> crackle-pop-pause
2194 2011-04-23 18:05:47 <ArtForz> same problem basically
2195 2011-04-23 18:06:00 <ArtForz> latency for virtualized USB... sucks
2196 2011-04-23 18:06:02 <BlueMatt> if you think usb audio in a regular vm is bad, try it in osx vm on vmware
2197 2011-04-23 18:06:12 <BlueMatt> so much worse
2198 2011-04-23 18:06:15 <ArtForz> I dont tnik I'm that masochistic ;)
2199 2011-04-23 18:06:51 <BlueMatt> damn iphone syncing when it wasnt in linux and wasnt working in win in virtualbox
2200 2011-04-23 18:06:58 Teslah has joined
2201 2011-04-23 18:07:03 <ArtForz> yep, that, too
2202 2011-04-23 18:07:04 <BlueMatt> had to keep itunes synced between osx vm and desktop
2203 2011-04-23 18:07:16 <BlueMatt> cause the audio didnt work in osx vm
2204 2011-04-23 18:07:21 <ArtForz> though iphone syncing is fidgety native, too
2205 2011-04-23 18:07:37 <BlueMatt> I have less problems with it on linux than I ever did on osx on win
2206 2011-04-23 18:07:50 <ArtForz> I have one box that flat out refuses to work with iphones
2207 2011-04-23 18:08:04 <ArtForz> any other usb or usb2 device is fine, but not iphones
2208 2011-04-23 18:08:26 <BlueMatt> apple interprets standards liberally
2209 2011-04-23 18:08:35 <ArtForz> the whole usb subsystem dies, my guess is the onboard controller (VIA...) is buggy
2210 2011-04-23 18:08:50 <ArtForz> hell, it's VIA, it'd be a fucking miracle if it weren't buggy
2211 2011-04-23 18:08:50 <BlueMatt> Id bet apple followed the standard...differently
2212 2011-04-23 18:09:19 <ArtForz> good chance
2213 2011-04-23 18:09:31 <ArtForz> maybe something with the re-enumeration it does
2214 2011-04-23 18:09:35 <BlueMatt> "think different"
2215 2011-04-23 18:09:39 <BlueMatt> oh wait its not thursday
2216 2011-04-23 18:10:02 <ArtForz> lol @ mtgox trades
2217 2011-04-23 18:10:17 <BlueMatt> ha nice
2218 2011-04-23 18:10:24 <BlueMatt> who is doing that?
2219 2011-04-23 18:10:36 <ArtForz> either a bot or someone is *really* bored
2220 2011-04-23 18:10:59 <ForceDestroyer> lol
2221 2011-04-23 18:11:00 <pirrr> What's up @ mtgox?
2222 2011-04-23 18:11:04 <BlueMatt> could be a bitcoincharts problem...IIRC nanotube pulls gribbles stuff from there now
2223 2011-04-23 18:11:11 <ForceDestroyer> I've seen that before, it's a strange bot I guess
2224 2011-04-23 18:11:13 <BlueMatt> and they did go down so...
2225 2011-04-23 18:11:30 <ForceDestroyer> I suppose the bot runs on a dark trade and doesn't want to accidentally buy something behind the dark ask
2226 2011-04-23 18:11:39 <BlueMatt> but I tend to think someone just has way too much time
2227 2011-04-23 18:11:42 <ForceDestroyer> Therefore, quantized to mini-buys
2228 2011-04-23 18:11:57 <ForceDestroyer> Oh, maybe not? now bought 1000
2229 2011-04-23 18:12:03 <ForceDestroyer> But I'm sure I've seen that before
2230 2011-04-23 18:12:04 <ArtForz> a bit too inconsistent for a bot
2231 2011-04-23 18:12:14 <ArtForz> probably someone clicking buy 100 times
2232 2011-04-23 18:12:44 <BlueMatt> yep someone was just bored
2233 2011-04-23 18:15:42 CrazyThinker has joined
2234 2011-04-23 18:15:55 sethsethseth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2235 2011-04-23 18:17:26 <CrazyThinker> Is bitcoin written in C++?
2236 2011-04-23 18:17:30 <ArtForz> yes
2237 2011-04-23 18:18:03 <CrazyThinker> Is there a detailed specifications for bitcoin?
2238 2011-04-23 18:18:11 <ArtForz> not really
2239 2011-04-23 18:18:17 <BlueMatt> bitcoin wiki is ok
2240 2011-04-23 18:18:32 <CrazyThinker> BlueMatt, I still don't understand many things after reading wiki
2241 2011-04-23 18:18:42 <BlueMatt> CrazyThinker: then your best bet is the source
2242 2011-04-23 18:18:42 <ArtForz> the whitepaper covers the fundamentals, most of the actual implementation is defined by "do it like the refence client"
2243 2011-04-23 18:18:54 <BlueMatt> any maybe writing said doc while reading ;)
2244 2011-04-23 18:18:57 <ArtForz> *regerence
2245 2011-04-23 18:18:57 <Diablo-D3> yeah but
2246 2011-04-23 18:19:01 <Diablo-D3> even when you have a spec
2247 2011-04-23 18:19:04 <ArtForz> **reference
2248 2011-04-23 18:19:08 <Diablo-D3> a perfectly worded absolutely perfect spec
2249 2011-04-23 18:19:17 <Diablo-D3> you STILL follow the damned reference implementation
2250 2011-04-23 18:19:50 chmod755 has joined
2251 2011-04-23 18:19:58 <grbgout> The reference implementation being the github master, or 0.3.20.02 tar.gz?
2252 2011-04-23 18:20:10 <ArtForz> "yes"
2253 2011-04-23 18:20:15 <grbgout> :P
2254 2011-04-23 18:20:19 <ArtForz> it's a moving target ;)
2255 2011-04-23 18:20:28 <ArtForz> "coding by spec is like walking on water, pretty easy when they're frozen"
2256 2011-04-23 18:20:31 justmoon has joined
2257 2011-04-23 18:20:36 * grbgout chuckles
2258 2011-04-23 18:20:39 <grbgout> I like that one.
2259 2011-04-23 18:21:04 <ArtForz> might be worded different originally
2260 2011-04-23 18:21:14 <grbgout> still funny
2261 2011-04-23 18:21:24 <Diablo-D3> bandwidth, station wagon, full of tapes, etc
2262 2011-04-23 18:21:35 <ArtForz> yeah, I think it's from a unix fortune
2263 2011-04-23 18:22:03 * BlueMatt really needs to set up his motd from fortune + cowsay
2264 2011-04-23 18:22:08 jackSmith has joined
2265 2011-04-23 18:22:30 LA9KSA has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2266 2011-04-23 18:23:10 <ArtForz> hmmm... did gribble break?
2267 2011-04-23 18:23:14 <ArtForz> ;;bc,mtgox
2268 2011-04-23 18:23:15 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.6,"low":1.3004,"vol":50334,"buy":1.461,"sell":1.6,"last":1.6}}
2269 2011-04-23 18:23:54 <ArtForz> last trade it announced on -market was for 1.50
2270 2011-04-23 18:24:02 <grbgout> yeah
2271 2011-04-23 18:24:03 <Diablo-D3> >1.6
2272 2011-04-23 18:24:10 <grbgout> it's done this a few times now
2273 2011-04-23 18:24:14 <grbgout> stalled on -market update
2274 2011-04-23 18:24:15 <BlueMatt> yep those 10@1.5 mustve been a bug
2275 2011-04-23 18:24:26 <grbgout> where are you guys looking at the market value?
2276 2011-04-23 18:24:26 LA9KSA has joined
2277 2011-04-23 18:24:34 <ArtForz> nope
2278 2011-04-23 18:24:38 eao has joined
2279 2011-04-23 18:24:39 <ArtForz> those were real trades
2280 2011-04-23 18:24:46 <BlueMatt> probably a problem with bitcoincharts
2281 2011-04-23 18:25:32 <AmpEater> I was seeing alot of weird 10btc trades last night
2282 2011-04-23 18:25:33 <ArtForz> wow, nice spread
2283 2011-04-23 18:25:45 <AmpEater> not this many though
2284 2011-04-23 18:26:43 <ArtForz> I have about 60 in my account history
2285 2011-04-23 18:26:53 <ArtForz> so... yeha, probably this many
2286 2011-04-23 18:26:55 tumbsup has joined
2287 2011-04-23 18:27:00 <ArtForz> more likely more
2288 2011-04-23 18:27:01 tumbsup has quit (Client Quit)
2289 2011-04-23 18:27:04 <pirrr> do you use this chart: http://mtgox.com/trade/megaChart ? Or other data?
2290 2011-04-23 18:27:24 ThumbsUp has joined
2291 2011-04-23 18:27:34 <ThumbsUp> hi. anyone here
2292 2011-04-23 18:27:38 <ArtForz> no
2293 2011-04-23 18:27:46 <ThumbsUp> yah lol
2294 2011-04-23 18:28:31 <AmpEater> were at $1.6....you think anyone is talking bout coins?
2295 2011-04-23 18:28:54 has quit (Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-69-208-128-206.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2296 2011-04-23 18:29:27 ThumbsUp has quit (Client Quit)
2297 2011-04-23 18:29:29 <AmpEater> :)
2298 2011-04-23 18:29:39 <BlueMatt> AmpEater: no, no one cares about bitcoins...no demand there either
2299 2011-04-23 18:29:57 <AmpEater> obviously
2300 2011-04-23 18:30:19 Netsniper has joined
2301 2011-04-23 18:30:31 <ArtForz> ahh, there it goes
2302 2011-04-23 18:30:52 <topi`> is there a list of the JSON commands that the official client takes? anything else other than "getwork" ?
2303 2011-04-23 18:31:05 <BlueMatt> topi`: call the rpc command help
2304 2011-04-23 18:31:15 <topi`> ok :)
2305 2011-04-23 18:31:28 <grbgout> topi`: there's also a wiki page.
2306 2011-04-23 18:32:12 <topi`> but not the same as Protocol_specification wiki page
2307 2011-04-23 18:32:13 <topi`> ?
2308 2011-04-23 18:33:42 <grbgout> different than that, let me see if I hvae it in my bookmarks
2309 2011-04-23 18:34:13 <grbgout> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC)
2310 2011-04-23 18:34:49 <topi`> ok:)
2311 2011-04-23 18:34:53 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2316 2011-04-23 18:42:00 php_doctor_who is now known as AFK_PHPAdam
2317 2011-04-23 18:44:32 AFK_PHPAdam is now known as php_doctor_who
2318 2011-04-23 18:46:23 ktrade is now known as register
2319 2011-04-23 18:46:26 skyewm has joined
2320 2011-04-23 18:46:53 register is now known as Guest54954
2321 2011-04-23 18:48:48 jrabbit has joined
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2323 2011-04-23 18:53:08 Junio has joined
2324 2011-04-23 18:56:02 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: bitcoin â 300% speculation
2325 2011-04-23 18:56:13 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: yep
2326 2011-04-23 18:56:29 <Diablo-D3> OVER NINE THOUSAND PERCENT
2327 2011-04-23 18:56:46 <Blitzboom> 1.6$ ⦠oh man
2328 2011-04-23 18:56:48 <ArtForz> 42%
2329 2011-04-23 18:56:59 <Blitzboom> how much volume today?
2330 2011-04-23 18:57:03 <Blitzboom> 70k$?
2331 2011-04-23 18:57:18 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2332 2011-04-23 18:57:47 <BlueMatt> insane
2333 2011-04-23 18:57:58 <ArtForz> yep, another rally
2334 2011-04-23 18:58:09 <Blitzboom> iâm afraid of the free market :D
2335 2011-04-23 18:58:13 <BlueMatt> understatement
2336 2011-04-23 18:58:23 <ArtForz> I still expect about $1.35 next week
2337 2011-04-23 18:58:26 <Blitzboom> ok, "only" 60k volume yet
2338 2011-04-23 18:58:49 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: as long as your big buyer stops, I agree
2339 2011-04-23 18:58:54 <Blitzboom> ArtForz: donât forget to anounce before you sell
2340 2011-04-23 18:59:21 <ArtForz> already sold 5k today
2341 2011-04-23 18:59:25 <Blitzboom> for how much of the volume does big buyer account for?
2342 2011-04-23 18:59:37 <ArtForz> dunno, might be multiple big buyers
2343 2011-04-23 19:00:00 <ArtForz> thing is, not much volume in market order bids above 1.40 or so
2344 2011-04-23 19:00:18 <Blitzboom> thatâs the situation *now*
2345 2011-04-23 19:00:37 <ArtForz> that was the situation most of the day
2346 2011-04-23 19:00:38 Guest54954 is now known as ktrade
2347 2011-04-23 19:00:53 <Blitzboom> i expect lots of funds to enter next week
2348 2011-04-23 19:01:03 <ArtForz> not much volume, large bursts of bids taking out standing asks
2349 2011-04-23 19:02:14 <Cusipzzz> ArtForz: impatient buyers. but i agree probably out of steam until more fresh deposits hit mond/tues..holiday weekend
2350 2011-04-23 19:02:43 <ArtForz> yeah, buying like that drives up price
2351 2011-04-23 19:03:16 <ArtForz> yeah, probably just a bunch of new investors wanting a few kbtc *now*
2352 2011-04-23 19:03:29 <AmpEater> yup
2353 2011-04-23 19:03:46 <ArtForz> though I wonder how the fuck you get large amounts of usd into mtgox on a holiday?
2354 2011-04-23 19:03:49 <Cusipzzz> and i expect more next week
2355 2011-04-23 19:03:53 <ArtForz> yeah
2356 2011-04-23 19:04:06 <Blitzboom> agree. no end in sight yet
2357 2011-04-23 19:04:14 <ArtForz> yep
2358 2011-04-23 19:04:19 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2359 2011-04-23 19:04:29 <Blitzboom> but 2$ will never hold imo
2360 2011-04-23 19:04:32 <ArtForz> though if whoever is buying stops, that might change real quick
2361 2011-04-23 19:04:48 <BlueMatt> yea 1$ or less isnt unreasonable
2362 2011-04-23 19:05:02 <Blitzboom> <1$? you wonât see that again
2363 2011-04-23 19:05:23 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: depends on how long we go before another huge run like this
2364 2011-04-23 19:05:30 <ArtForz> 0.9-1 is pretty much long term lower support now
2365 2011-04-23 19:05:42 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: yep
2366 2011-04-23 19:06:25 <AmpEater> has there been a blockchain fork? how can there be 2 new blocks since my transaction but its still showing 0/unconfirmed and I'm connected no probs
2367 2011-04-23 19:06:54 <BlueMatt> AmpEater: blockchain fork wouldnt necessarily cause that
2368 2011-04-23 19:06:56 <ArtForz> ampeater: it didn't make it into a block, your client will auto-resend it after 5 min to half an hour or so
2369 2011-04-23 19:07:06 <netxshare> Doctor.Who.2005.2005.6x01.The.Impossible.Astronaut.Part1.HDTV.XviD-FoV sweet
2370 2011-04-23 19:07:10 <netxshare> err wrong channel
2371 2011-04-23 19:07:16 <AmpEater> ah....weird, I saw it show up on the btc-watch channel
2372 2011-04-23 19:07:21 <BlueMatt> lol pirating are we netxshare
2373 2011-04-23 19:07:37 <ArtForz> nahhrrrr
2374 2011-04-23 19:07:46 <Blitzboom> hehe
2375 2011-04-23 19:08:04 zooko has left ("#tahoe-lafs")
2376 2011-04-23 19:09:02 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2377 2011-04-23 19:09:03 <netxshare> I have cabletv, so I don't think it's pirating
2378 2011-04-23 19:09:14 <Cusipzzz> lol
2379 2011-04-23 19:09:14 <netxshare> I just rather download then watch cabletv
2380 2011-04-23 19:09:17 <ArtForz> sure it's pirating
2381 2011-04-23 19:09:17 <BlueMatt> no I'm pretty sure that is sitll pirating
2382 2011-04-23 19:09:23 <ArtForz> but who gives a fuck
2383 2011-04-23 19:09:24 <BlueMatt> still*
2384 2011-04-23 19:09:34 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: yea I tend to agree
2385 2011-04-23 19:09:48 <BlueMatt> if they dont want to let me watch my shows in .de, fuck you Ill pirate
2386 2011-04-23 19:09:48 fimp has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2387 2011-04-23 19:09:58 <BlueMatt> I would even pay for it (reasonably) but I can't
2388 2011-04-23 19:10:06 <netxshare> well if it was over the air network tv then no
2389 2011-04-23 19:10:10 <ArtForz> actually iirc in DE it's still semi-legal as long as you don't upload
2390 2011-04-23 19:10:37 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: AFAIK its legal as long as it doesnt touch your drive (ie streaming, in theory)
2391 2011-04-23 19:10:46 <ArtForz> errr... no
2392 2011-04-23 19:10:46 <netxshare> but imo, it's close enough to having a dvr
2393 2011-04-23 19:10:48 <ArtForz> music/movies/tv *distribution* is illegal, not posession or use, and so far courts always decided that the uploader is doing the distributn'
2394 2011-04-23 19:10:59 <netxshare> oh yes
2395 2011-04-23 19:11:00 <AmpEater> I think statistically that somebody willing to "break the law" and pirate can be shown to receive superior content and control vs someone who pays
2396 2011-04-23 19:11:03 <netxshare> uploading it is illegal
2397 2011-04-23 19:11:12 <netxshare> but it's not illegal for me to download a copy
2398 2011-04-23 19:11:19 <ArtForz> yep
2399 2011-04-23 19:11:42 <Blitzboom> governments reward leechers!
2400 2011-04-23 19:11:44 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: not sure about that, know someone who got fd up by downloading music
2401 2011-04-23 19:11:48 <ArtForz> p2p
2402 2011-04-23 19:11:51 <netxshare> there were a few people here that got busted for running sport streaming websites
2403 2011-04-23 19:11:59 <netxshare> around the superbowl time
2404 2011-04-23 19:12:02 <netxshare> people were raided
2405 2011-04-23 19:12:09 <BlueMatt> anyway, its not very likely so Ill take my chances to watch my shows
2406 2011-04-23 19:12:14 <ArtForz> if you're using p2p, the media mass-suers just assume you're uploading
2407 2011-04-23 19:12:16 <netxshare> by the FBI
2408 2011-04-23 19:12:37 <AmpEater> your just as likely to get F'D trusting your CC/bank info to a big company
2409 2011-04-23 19:12:40 <ArtForz> de != usa
2410 2011-04-23 19:12:54 <netxshare> I have used usenet for many years
2411 2011-04-23 19:12:58 <netxshare> and had no issues giving out a CC
2412 2011-04-23 19:12:59 <AmpEater> yeah, many americans forget that our rules dont apply everywhere
2413 2011-04-23 19:13:07 <ArtForz> iirc in the us the act of copying itself is illegal
2414 2011-04-23 19:13:14 <AmpEater> the pirate bay letters are awesome
2415 2011-04-23 19:13:17 <BlueMatt> shame netflix got rid of its ipv6 support (they used to be streaming/website over ipv6)...never got around to trying it wile it was up, but Id bet they dont have great geoipv6
2416 2011-04-23 19:13:50 tcatm has joined
2417 2011-04-23 19:13:54 <Diablo-D3> probably doesnt work with silverlie
2418 2011-04-23 19:13:58 gjs278 has joined
2419 2011-04-23 19:14:01 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: yea pretty much, just making a backup of something where you have to get around copy protection is illegal
2420 2011-04-23 19:14:06 <ArtForz> yep
2421 2011-04-23 19:14:11 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: google around, it used to work...just not any more
2422 2011-04-23 19:14:35 <ArtForz> which is why downloading a movie from usenet is legally safer than ripping it from DVD yourself...
2423 2011-04-23 19:14:56 <BlueMatt> the us govt just doesnt even somewhat get it
2424 2011-04-23 19:15:38 <Diablo-D3> [03:10:09] <BlueMatt> ArtForz: yea pretty much, just making a backup of something where you have to get around copy protection is illegal
2425 2011-04-23 19:15:44 <ArtForz> yep
2426 2011-04-23 19:15:44 <Diablo-D3> erm, thats allowed under the DMCA
2427 2011-04-23 19:15:56 <ArtForz> we have a DMCA-style anti-circumvention law
2428 2011-04-23 19:16:06 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: no its illegal under DMCA unless the library of congress makes an exception
2429 2011-04-23 19:16:12 <BlueMatt> they review it every couple years
2430 2011-04-23 19:16:44 <ArtForz> though I think CSS doesn't fall under it anymore
2431 2011-04-23 19:16:55 <BlueMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention#United_States
2432 2011-04-23 19:17:06 <netxshare> yeah you are allowed a 1:1 back up
2433 2011-04-23 19:17:20 <ArtForz> I think the courts got hung up on the "effective technical measure" part
2434 2011-04-23 19:17:28 <BlueMatt> netxshare: you arent allowed to get around copy protection, period.
2435 2011-04-23 19:17:31 <BlueMatt> (in the us)
2436 2011-04-23 19:17:37 <ArtForz> yeah
2437 2011-04-23 19:17:45 <ArtForz> laws different between countries, news at 11 ;)
2438 2011-04-23 19:17:54 <netxshare> so, all the dvd copying software they sell is illegal?
2439 2011-04-23 19:17:57 <BlueMatt> riaa/mpaa still doesnt get that part
2440 2011-04-23 19:18:01 <BlueMatt> netxshare: yes
2441 2011-04-23 19:18:12 <ArtForz> but iirc in 2 or 3 cases in .de defense argued CSS has been broken for so long, it can't be considered effective anymore, and actually got through with that
2442 2011-04-23 19:18:15 <BlueMatt> netxshare: that is why that software always gets shut down
2443 2011-04-23 19:18:15 <ArtForz> yes
2444 2011-04-23 19:18:26 <ArtForz> well, technically
2445 2011-04-23 19:18:31 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: at least the german courts are sane
2446 2011-04-23 19:18:39 <netxshare> how do they get away with selling it at retail stores?
2447 2011-04-23 19:18:47 <BlueMatt> netxshare: they dont?
2448 2011-04-23 19:18:55 <BlueMatt> I've never seen it
2449 2011-04-23 19:19:01 <ArtForz> they do
2450 2011-04-23 19:19:04 <ArtForz> the retail copy doesnt contain the actual decryption part
2451 2011-04-23 19:19:07 <netxshare> I have seen it at best buy
2452 2011-04-23 19:19:09 <netxshare> ah
2453 2011-04-23 19:19:11 CrazyThinker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2454 2011-04-23 19:19:20 maikmerten has joined
2455 2011-04-23 19:19:35 <netxshare> there was one not long ago that did it for blueray, but that was taken out of retail stores
2456 2011-04-23 19:19:39 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2457 2011-04-23 19:19:44 <BlueMatt> who was it who got sued big time about a year ago?
2458 2011-04-23 19:19:49 <netxshare> I think nero supports it?
2459 2011-04-23 19:19:50 <BlueMatt> some somewhat large company
2460 2011-04-23 19:20:02 <BlueMatt> I dont think nero is us-based
2461 2011-04-23 19:20:04 <BlueMatt> or us-sold
2462 2011-04-23 19:20:17 <ArtForz> Ahead SW = nero is .de
2463 2011-04-23 19:20:26 <netxshare> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_dynSessConf=-2551536781355050932&id=pcat17071&type=page&st=nero&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960
2464 2011-04-23 19:20:27 <BlueMatt> Nero AG, German software company (formerly known as Ahead Software), and its products:
2465 2011-04-23 19:20:30 <BlueMatt> from wikipedia
2466 2011-04-23 19:21:02 <ArtForz> wasnt it clonedvd that got shut down?
2467 2011-04-23 19:21:18 <netxshare> could be
2468 2011-04-23 19:21:23 <netxshare> that was easy to use software
2469 2011-04-23 19:21:30 <BlueMatt> netxshare: like ArtForz said, it cant have the actual copy-protection-blocks in it
2470 2011-04-23 19:21:34 <netxshare> was big too
2471 2011-04-23 19:21:52 <BlueMatt> no it still exists
2472 2011-04-23 19:22:01 <ArtForz> yepsome
2473 2011-04-23 19:22:08 <BlueMatt> SlySoft Inc. is a software company located in St. John's, Antigua and Barbuda
2474 2011-04-23 19:22:12 <BlueMatt> again, not us
2475 2011-04-23 19:22:16 <ArtForz> except now it can only copy unprotected stuff out of the box
2476 2011-04-23 19:22:16 <BlueMatt> http://www.slysoft.com/en/clonedvd.html
2477 2011-04-23 19:22:29 <BlueMatt> really?
2478 2011-04-23 19:22:36 <ArtForz> yeah
2479 2011-04-23 19:22:39 <netxshare> do you need like a plugin?
2480 2011-04-23 19:22:47 <BlueMatt> Im pretty sure they still get rid of copy protection (or sell software to do it) at slysoft
2481 2011-04-23 19:22:48 <ArtForz> yep, via online update
2482 2011-04-23 19:22:56 <netxshare> haha
2483 2011-04-23 19:22:57 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
2484 2011-04-23 19:23:09 <ArtForz> and those servers (and the company that runs them) are in assfuckistan which doesn't have DMCA-style laws
2485 2011-04-23 19:23:15 <BlueMatt> god the laws are so ridiculous
2486 2011-04-23 19:23:35 <netxshare> soon there wont be many places with out DMCA
2487 2011-04-23 19:23:55 <BlueMatt> yea...damn coica
2488 2011-04-23 19:24:11 <ArtForz> with some ridiculous disclaimer ala "this update is only for users in free countries, using them in the western world is strictly verboten"
2489 2011-04-23 19:24:26 <netxshare> lol
2490 2011-04-23 19:24:51 <BlueMatt> what is the new treaty that is written by mpaa/etc that is gonna be signed by the eu?
2491 2011-04-23 19:24:52 <BlueMatt> and us
2492 2011-04-23 19:25:10 <netxshare> oh with the wiretapping?
2493 2011-04-23 19:25:22 kermit has joined
2494 2011-04-23 19:25:23 <BlueMatt> no just the general pirating crap
2495 2011-04-23 19:25:34 <ArtForz> anyways, this whole thing leads to the crazy situation that in .de, grabbing the latest movies and mp3s off usenet is legally safer than ripping them yourself from media you fucking own...
2496 2011-04-23 19:25:39 <BlueMatt> acta, that was it
2497 2011-04-23 19:25:47 <ArtForz> and thats just fucking ass backwards
2498 2011-04-23 19:25:48 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: yep
2499 2011-04-23 19:25:52 <BlueMatt> yep
2500 2011-04-23 19:25:55 <netxshare> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/03/ccia-copyright-wiretaps-are-hollywoods-patriot-act.ars
2501 2011-04-23 19:25:59 <BlueMatt> its pretty much worse in the us though
2502 2011-04-23 19:26:09 <BlueMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement
2503 2011-04-23 19:26:26 <BlueMatt> that one was written by the mpaa and in hidden and not really announced until they were ready to sign it
2504 2011-04-23 19:26:33 <ArtForz> yep
2505 2011-04-23 19:26:44 <BlueMatt> then people were like wtf? and they backed off (a bit)
2506 2011-04-23 19:27:08 <netxshare> that's what happens when you own obama
2507 2011-04-23 19:27:19 <netxshare> look how many RIAA lawyers are at the DOJ now
2508 2011-04-23 19:27:21 <netxshare> 6?
2509 2011-04-23 19:27:53 <netxshare> there is even a judge that was a RIAA lobbyist
2510 2011-04-23 19:27:56 <ArtForz> yeah, is it me or was corporatism a lot less blatant a few decades ago?
2511 2011-04-23 19:27:57 <BlueMatt> yea...its insane, though its not just obama. both sides of the aisle do that
2512 2011-04-23 19:28:05 <netxshare> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/03/riaa-lobbyist-becomes-federal-judge-rules-on-file-sharing-cases.ars
2513 2011-04-23 19:28:22 <netxshare> yeah, but obama is a huge player in it
2514 2011-04-23 19:28:27 <BlueMatt> IIRC the judge on tpb case in sweden just got off of being a lobyist for mpaa or something
2515 2011-04-23 19:28:36 <netxshare> look up how much they donated to him
2516 2011-04-23 19:28:38 <ArtForz> yeah
2517 2011-04-23 19:29:01 <BlueMatt> netxshare: yea obama completely went against his whole "Im for net neutrality" crap in the campaign
2518 2011-04-23 19:29:18 <netxshare> he is all about monies and power
2519 2011-04-23 19:29:33 <netxshare> he only does what he thinks he should not what people want
2520 2011-04-23 19:29:40 <BlueMatt> perceived value in the american economy
2521 2011-04-23 19:30:01 <netxshare> he also talks weird.
2522 2011-04-23 19:30:06 <ArtForz> fun thing is, big media is actually a rather small part of the economy, just very vocal
2523 2011-04-23 19:30:16 <netxshare> I always wonder if he talks to his family the same way he talks in public
2524 2011-04-23 19:30:17 <BlueMatt> hollywood has done an amazing job convincing washington that if they dont get help, half of america will be unemployed
2525 2011-04-23 19:30:35 <BlueMatt> its amazing how small they really are
2526 2011-04-23 19:30:37 <netxshare> yet they report record profits each year?
2527 2011-04-23 19:30:47 <BlueMatt> thing is...they control the media so...
2528 2011-04-23 19:31:06 <ArtForz> yeah, that part is always "wtf?!?"
2529 2011-04-23 19:31:56 <BlueMatt> we need to start encoding movies and tv shows in the blockchain ;)
2530 2011-04-23 19:32:09 <netxshare> hell the movies that come out are not worth the money
2531 2011-04-23 19:32:18 <ArtForz> true
2532 2011-04-23 19:32:20 <BlueMatt> true that
2533 2011-04-23 19:32:23 <netxshare> I still have giftcards to the theater
2534 2011-04-23 19:32:25 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2535 2011-04-23 19:32:26 <netxshare> that I have not used
2536 2011-04-23 19:32:29 <netxshare> nothing worth watching
2537 2011-04-23 19:32:36 <netxshare> at this point, TV shows are much better.
2538 2011-04-23 19:33:01 <ArtForz> yep, pretty much the same here
2539 2011-04-23 19:33:22 <netxshare> I don't like spending $10 and feeling like I was ripped off
2540 2011-04-23 19:33:25 <BlueMatt> I prefer my movies/tvshows in english too (my german is ok, not that great) so that makes it even harder
2541 2011-04-23 19:33:30 <ArtForz> I pretty much avoid blockbuster movies completely nowadays
2542 2011-04-23 19:33:43 <netxshare> sure you can leave and ask for money back, but then you never know if it gets any better =/
2543 2011-04-23 19:33:51 <BlueMatt> the only english movie theater in frankfurt is worse than my home theater
2544 2011-04-23 19:33:59 <ArtForz> wow, that sucks
2545 2011-04-23 19:34:09 <netxshare> o.O
2546 2011-04-23 19:34:09 <BlueMatt> its kinda terrible
2547 2011-04-23 19:34:13 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2548 2011-04-23 19:34:21 <netxshare> that or you have a crazy nice home theater
2549 2011-04-23 19:34:24 <ArtForz> we have a pretty good movie theater here showing mostly older films in english
2550 2011-04-23 19:34:28 <BlueMatt> and theres a us army base in weisbaden so youd think it would be great
2551 2011-04-23 19:34:44 <ArtForz> oh, I do have a crazy HT setup, still prefer the movie experience
2552 2011-04-23 19:34:44 kermit has joined
2553 2011-04-23 19:34:51 <netxshare> I used to live in a rather small town, 1 movie threader two screens
2554 2011-04-23 19:34:55 <netxshare> and wow uber crap
2555 2011-04-23 19:34:56 <BlueMatt> netxshare: no its that bad. Last time I was there they were testing the alarm in the middle and wouldnt stop
2556 2011-04-23 19:35:17 <netxshare> there is a cheap theater here for like $2.50 a ticket
2557 2011-04-23 19:35:23 <netxshare> for movies that are almost out on dvd
2558 2011-04-23 19:35:32 <Junio> wow, very technical bitcoin related development here... My C++ skill aren't good enough to follow everything
2559 2011-04-23 19:35:33 <ArtForz> 10' DLP front projection, 6.2 actually capable of full (old) THX standard
2560 2011-04-23 19:35:34 <Junio> :D
2561 2011-04-23 19:35:51 <BlueMatt> Junio: welcome to bitcoin-dev, on topic around 10 % of the time :)
2562 2011-04-23 19:36:12 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: nice, were stuck on a 5X inch sony
2563 2011-04-23 19:36:13 <netxshare> I like DLP
2564 2011-04-23 19:36:16 <BlueMatt> nice but not great
2565 2011-04-23 19:36:17 <Blitzboom> I love the freedom, I love the namelessness, I love to trade things, I love to speculate. I love the whole net, and all its userspace!
2566 2011-04-23 19:36:18 <Cusipzzz> lol
2567 2011-04-23 19:36:22 tcatm has joined
2568 2011-04-23 19:36:25 <ArtForz> really my sound system is the impressive part ;)
2569 2011-04-23 19:36:31 <ArtForz> 90dB continous 20-20kHz at listening position at < 1% distortion, with 20dB headroom
2570 2011-04-23 19:36:39 <BlueMatt> nice
2571 2011-04-23 19:36:55 <BlueMatt> the best audio in my house is my shure se530s
2572 2011-04-23 19:37:00 <netxshare> I wish my receiver supported HDMI
2573 2011-04-23 19:37:05 <Cusipzzz> <BlueMatt> Junio: welcome to bitcoin-dev, on topic around 10 % of the time :) - when did we get up to 10% ?? :)
2574 2011-04-23 19:37:12 <BlueMatt> Cusipzzz: good point
2575 2011-04-23 19:37:14 <Blitzboom> :D
2576 2011-04-23 19:37:20 <ArtForz> yeah, 10%?
2577 2011-04-23 19:37:32 <Junio> lol
2578 2011-04-23 19:37:46 curiositysquared has joined
2579 2011-04-23 19:37:47 <BlueMatt> I wouldnt know, Im not here for the us crowd
2580 2011-04-23 19:37:54 <netxshare> why did this weekend have to be easter weekend
2581 2011-04-23 19:37:57 <curiositysquared> Diablo-D3: around?
2582 2011-04-23 19:37:58 <ArtForz> I pretty much built my whole sound system myself
2583 2011-04-23 19:37:58 <BlueMatt> ie when gavin's on
2584 2011-04-23 19:38:10 <ArtForz> from cabinets to digital active crossovers with room EQ
2585 2011-04-23 19:38:12 <netxshare> banks closed friday, could not get money
2586 2011-04-23 19:38:15 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: just barely
2587 2011-04-23 19:38:16 kermit has quit (Client Quit)
2588 2011-04-23 19:38:28 <curiositysquared> I'm still at 100%cpu
2589 2011-04-23 19:38:30 <netxshare> sounds like something you would do art
2590 2011-04-23 19:38:33 <BlueMatt> netxshare: Id rather dampen the rapid run on btc personally
2591 2011-04-23 19:38:38 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: what hardware?
2592 2011-04-23 19:38:58 <netxshare> I wanted to get my video card
2593 2011-04-23 19:39:00 <BlueMatt> them damn ees they just do it all themselves
2594 2011-04-23 19:39:07 <ArtForz> and it still was cheaper than a "decent" HT system
2595 2011-04-23 19:39:25 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: wanna build me a system?
2596 2011-04-23 19:39:27 <ArtForz> but then I have really weird ideas about what a good sound system should be like
2597 2011-04-23 19:39:46 larsivi has joined
2598 2011-04-23 19:39:53 <ArtForz> e.g. my tweeters are 1" dome in constant directivity horns
2599 2011-04-23 19:40:05 <curiositysquared> Diablo-D3: 2 x 5870 @ 900mhz, amd 2.3 ghz phenom quad core and windows 7.
2600 2011-04-23 19:40:09 <ArtForz> you don't normally do that in a home setting
2601 2011-04-23 19:40:18 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: which driver, which sdk
2602 2011-04-23 19:40:25 <ArtForz> you do see them in mastering monitors
2603 2011-04-23 19:40:40 <curiositysquared> Diablo-D3: installed 10-11_vista64_win7_64_dd_ccc_ocl
2604 2011-04-23 19:40:50 <curiositysquared> and then ati-stream-sdk-v2.1-vista-win7-64
2605 2011-04-23 19:40:56 jackSmith has joined
2606 2011-04-23 19:41:04 warpi has joined
2607 2011-04-23 19:41:05 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: I wouldnt know what the real-world difference is there
2608 2011-04-23 19:41:08 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: and you told the 10.11 installer not to install the compute runtime?
2609 2011-04-23 19:41:09 fimp has joined
2610 2011-04-23 19:41:14 <ArtForz> high freq directivity reduces "room sound", and most people don't like that somewhat sterile atmosphere
2611 2011-04-23 19:41:26 <warpi> what has happend to bitcoincharts.com ?
2612 2011-04-23 19:41:27 <curiositysquared> but in my catalyist control center it says my catalyst version is 11.4
2613 2011-04-23 19:41:28 <BlueMatt> oh, no I disagree
2614 2011-04-23 19:41:29 <ArtForz> and it sounds like ass if you're not in a ~15° cone
2615 2011-04-23 19:41:32 <curiositysquared> I didn't
2616 2011-04-23 19:41:40 <BlueMatt> I love being cut off when Im listening to something
2617 2011-04-23 19:41:40 <curiositysquared> I installed the 2.1 runtime over
2618 2011-04-23 19:41:42 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: because 10-11_vista64_win7_64_dd_ccc_ocl is the one WITH the runtime
2619 2011-04-23 19:41:46 <netxshare> so it was not my connection bitcoincharts.com is down?
2620 2011-04-23 19:41:48 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: you cant install over.
2621 2011-04-23 19:41:48 <curiositysquared> The install did say it was downgrading it.
2622 2011-04-23 19:41:56 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: it doesnt work right
2623 2011-04-23 19:42:04 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: sdk 2.2 and 2.3 have the 100% cpu bug.
2624 2011-04-23 19:42:09 <curiositysquared> ok
2625 2011-04-23 19:42:19 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: amd fixed it in 2.4
2626 2011-04-23 19:42:34 <curiositysquared> do I need to uninstall the driver then? Or just reinstall it and uncheck the sdk?
2627 2011-04-23 19:42:45 <curiositysquared> Diablo-D3: do we know what the 100% cpu is doing?
2628 2011-04-23 19:42:53 <Diablo-D3> yes we do
2629 2011-04-23 19:43:00 <Diablo-D3> its idling wrong
2630 2011-04-23 19:43:02 <curiositysquared> I downcored my cpu to 1 core and I couldn't get over 400khash
2631 2011-04-23 19:43:08 <curiositysquared> hmm
2632 2011-04-23 19:43:21 <Diablo-D3> its just a really really stupid bug that should have never happened
2633 2011-04-23 19:43:22 DavidSJ has quit (Quit: DavidSJ)
2634 2011-04-23 19:43:24 <Diablo-D3> it effects all opencl apps
2635 2011-04-23 19:43:27 <curiositysquared> that's what I thought, but a slower cpu shouldn't reduce hash rate should it?
2636 2011-04-23 19:43:34 <Diablo-D3> yup, it would.
2637 2011-04-23 19:43:49 <Diablo-D3> although it would effect it far less using -f 1
2638 2011-04-23 19:43:58 <curiositysquared> ok. I don't fully understand then. But I'll change my driver and see if it fixes it.
2639 2011-04-23 19:44:01 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: uninstall the sdk using add/remove programs
2640 2011-04-23 19:44:09 <Diablo-D3> and then just upgrade to 11.4 and tell to install the runtime
2641 2011-04-23 19:44:14 <Diablo-D3> dont install the sdk
2642 2011-04-23 19:44:16 <curiositysquared> I still had 100% cpu with 11.4 and the new beta sdk
2643 2011-04-23 19:44:36 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: well, its either that
2644 2011-04-23 19:44:41 <Diablo-D3> or reinstall windows 7
2645 2011-04-23 19:44:43 <curiositysquared> hmm
2646 2011-04-23 19:44:55 <Diablo-D3> and then use the 10.11 installer WITHOUT the opencl runtime
2647 2011-04-23 19:44:59 <Diablo-D3> and install sdk 2.1 on top of that
2648 2011-04-23 19:45:05 <curiositysquared> a few days ago when I told you I was running 11.4 you said I shoudl downgrade to 10.11
2649 2011-04-23 19:45:20 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: for optimum speed, 10.9 through 10.11 + sdk 2.1 is the best bet
2650 2011-04-23 19:45:26 <Diablo-D3> but you installed the version with the runtime
2651 2011-04-23 19:45:33 <Diablo-D3> you cant install the sdk on top of those
2652 2011-04-23 19:45:34 RazielZ has quit ()
2653 2011-04-23 19:46:08 <curiositysquared> can't I uninstall the runtime?
2654 2011-04-23 19:46:14 <Diablo-D3> no
2655 2011-04-23 19:46:23 <Diablo-D3> you have to uninstall the sdk and the driver, and then reinstall the driver
2656 2011-04-23 19:46:42 <Diablo-D3> and then hope it actually removes everything
2657 2011-04-23 19:46:43 <curiositysquared> You said this and it's confusing me: 12:40 < Diablo-D3> and then just upgrade to 11.4 and tell to install the runtime
2658 2011-04-23 19:47:09 <curiositysquared> was that a typeo? or do I really need to upgrade to 11.4 before downgrading?
2659 2011-04-23 19:47:11 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: its because downgrading is hard
2660 2011-04-23 19:47:17 <curiositysquared> ahh.
2661 2011-04-23 19:47:18 <Diablo-D3> windows usually just fucks it up
2662 2011-04-23 19:47:19 <curiositysquared> check
2663 2011-04-23 19:47:31 <Diablo-D3> its so much easier on linux
2664 2011-04-23 19:48:00 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2665 2011-04-23 19:48:22 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: people have just reformatted their windows partitions and reinstalled just to fix shit
2666 2011-04-23 19:49:08 <Diablo-D3> but removing the sdk and driver using add/remove programs often works
2667 2011-04-23 19:49:13 <Diablo-D3> it usually grabs everything
2668 2011-04-23 19:49:27 <Diablo-D3> and then you just use the 10.11 installer WITHOUT opencl, and then install the sdk
2669 2011-04-23 19:49:28 <Diablo-D3> OR
2670 2011-04-23 19:49:35 <Diablo-D3> install 11.4 and DONT install any sdk
2671 2011-04-23 19:50:52 <Diablo-D3> curiositysquared: anyhow, Im going to bed
2672 2011-04-23 19:50:56 <Diablo-D3> let me know how it goes
2673 2011-04-23 19:50:56 <curiositysquared> Thanks.
2674 2011-04-23 19:51:02 <Diablo-D3> night all
2675 2011-04-23 19:51:08 <curiositysquared> I feel like copying this thread and putting it on the wiki.
2676 2011-04-23 19:51:12 lianj has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2677 2011-04-23 19:51:48 kelp has joined
2678 2011-04-23 19:53:01 lianj has joined
2679 2011-04-23 19:53:50 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2680 2011-04-23 19:55:52 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2681 2011-04-23 19:56:40 Xunie has joined
2682 2011-04-23 19:56:44 <ArtForz> fuck, there goes a nice and quiet evening
2683 2011-04-23 19:56:54 CyanDynamo1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2684 2011-04-23 19:57:36 <netxshare> o.o
2685 2011-04-23 19:57:46 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2686 2011-04-23 19:58:01 <ArtForz> my oldest ran into a tempered glass door
2687 2011-04-23 19:58:07 newb007 has joined
2688 2011-04-23 19:58:21 <BlueMatt> well that sucks
2689 2011-04-23 19:59:01 <ArtForz> wife just went to hospital with her, probably needs a few stitches
2690 2011-04-23 19:59:16 <BlueMatt> ouch, that sucks...how old?
2691 2011-04-23 19:59:22 <kelp> I've done that before :( fortunately not hard enough to need stitches
2692 2011-04-23 19:59:36 <ArtForz> 11
2693 2011-04-23 19:59:57 <kelp> break the glass too? :(
2694 2011-04-23 20:00:00 <ArtForz> yep
2695 2011-04-23 20:00:02 <ArtForz> I ran into my share of doors, never managed to fucking shatter one
2696 2011-04-23 20:00:03 <kelp> uggh!
2697 2011-04-23 20:00:03 <BlueMatt> dam
2698 2011-04-23 20:00:21 <ArtForz> just finished cleaning up
2699 2011-04-23 20:00:42 <BlueMatt> at least its not winter anymore
2700 2011-04-23 20:01:16 <netxshare> ouch
2701 2011-04-23 20:02:20 <ArtForz> well, it's just a interior door
2702 2011-04-23 20:02:33 <BlueMatt> oh ok still sucks either way
2703 2011-04-23 20:02:39 <ArtForz> yep
2704 2011-04-23 20:02:51 phantomcircuit has joined
2705 2011-04-23 20:03:47 <netxshare> bleh I need a robot to mow my lawn
2706 2011-04-23 20:03:51 <netxshare> I hate cutting grass
2707 2011-04-23 20:04:00 <BlueMatt> netxshare: they make those
2708 2011-04-23 20:04:07 <netxshare> yeah I know
2709 2011-04-23 20:04:22 <netxshare> you have to install a wire in your yard tho
2710 2011-04-23 20:04:27 <netxshare> along the edges
2711 2011-04-23 20:04:37 <netxshare> so it knows where to cut
2712 2011-04-23 20:04:37 <BlueMatt> or have an enclosed yard
2713 2011-04-23 20:04:52 <netxshare> or rather when to stop and turn around
2714 2011-04-23 20:04:53 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2715 2011-04-23 20:05:08 <kelp> how does that avoid running over small children or small animals?
2716 2011-04-23 20:05:18 <netxshare> it does not
2717 2011-04-23 20:05:30 <netxshare> it helps keep them out
2718 2011-04-23 20:05:34 <kelp> hahah
2719 2011-04-23 20:05:52 <netxshare> I am sure it has some sensors
2720 2011-04-23 20:06:07 <netxshare> for movement and pressure
2721 2011-04-23 20:06:29 <netxshare> so if it bumbs into something it will mow around it
2722 2011-04-23 20:06:35 <ArtForz> how boring
2723 2011-04-23 20:06:38 <netxshare> it's rather low the the ground
2724 2011-04-23 20:06:43 <netxshare> and slow as shit
2725 2011-04-23 20:06:48 <BlueMatt> they look like roombas
2726 2011-04-23 20:06:49 <netxshare> it takes like a day to cut a yard
2727 2011-04-23 20:06:51 <netxshare> yep
2728 2011-04-23 20:06:52 <BlueMatt> but on grass
2729 2011-04-23 20:06:56 <ArtForz> yeah, I've seen em
2730 2011-04-23 20:07:17 <netxshare> I never bought one before because it was better to just pay someone to do it
2731 2011-04-23 20:07:18 amiller has joined
2732 2011-04-23 20:07:44 <netxshare> then I did not have to dick around with installing a wire in my yard
2733 2011-04-23 20:07:45 <kelp> I avoid these problems by living some place where a yard is prohibitively expensive to have
2734 2011-04-23 20:07:57 <netxshare> so do you have rocks?
2735 2011-04-23 20:08:10 Junio has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2736 2011-04-23 20:08:13 <kelp> I live in downtown SF
2737 2011-04-23 20:08:20 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2738 2011-04-23 20:08:45 <kelp> we have concrete
2739 2011-04-23 20:08:49 <netxshare> I would be fine with dirt
2740 2011-04-23 20:09:14 <netxshare> a yard is a waste of time
2741 2011-04-23 20:09:14 <kelp> actually my building has a courtyard, there seems to be some dirt there
2742 2011-04-23 20:09:43 <kelp> yeah, it would be just another thing I have to pay someone to take care of
2743 2011-04-23 20:09:50 <netxshare> I will never understand why some people enjoy cutting the grass
2744 2011-04-23 20:10:08 <kelp> I did that for a few summer jobs in high school, it was terrible
2745 2011-04-23 20:10:12 <curiositysquared> it's a religious experience for some.
2746 2011-04-23 20:10:20 <netxshare> it is
2747 2011-04-23 20:10:21 <curiositysquared> forced to do it for so many years as a child
2748 2011-04-23 20:10:31 <BlueMatt> kelp: dont nock my 10eur/week ;)
2749 2011-04-23 20:10:31 <netxshare> there was this show on tv about yards
2750 2011-04-23 20:10:36 <netxshare> this guy was crazy
2751 2011-04-23 20:10:43 <netxshare> he would cut like 5 houses on his block
2752 2011-04-23 20:10:44 <ArtForz> I got about a 120 sqy front lawn (small gas mower) and about 2.5k sqyd backyard (old tractor w/ side mower)
2753 2011-04-23 20:10:51 <netxshare> to make it look right
2754 2011-04-23 20:10:59 <netxshare> hell he cut it even when there was snow
2755 2011-04-23 20:11:07 <kelp> BlueMatt: I don't get it?
2756 2011-04-23 20:11:11 <netxshare> he would remove the snow from his yard
2757 2011-04-23 20:11:16 <ArtForz> but then we pretty much live at the ass-end of town
2758 2011-04-23 20:11:39 <BlueMatt> kelp: I still make my 10eur/week mowing the lawn
2759 2011-04-23 20:11:46 <kelp> BlueMatt: oh!
2760 2011-04-23 20:11:49 <netxshare> if I just had to ride on something it would not be a issue
2761 2011-04-23 20:11:57 <netxshare> I have a bad back
2762 2011-04-23 20:12:13 <netxshare> pushing that mower up and down hills does not make for a great day
2763 2011-04-23 20:12:14 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2764 2011-04-23 20:12:34 <netxshare> which I have to go do
2765 2011-04-23 20:12:37 <netxshare> -_-
2766 2011-04-23 20:12:38 <kelp> BlueMatt: not the kind of work for me. :)
2767 2011-04-23 20:12:44 eros has joined
2768 2011-04-23 20:12:45 <ArtForz> though I really like living in the boonies, especially with the only neighbors far enough away and pretty relaxed about shit
2769 2011-04-23 20:12:50 <BlueMatt> kelp: I'm still 18 so...
2770 2011-04-23 20:13:16 <curiositysquared> My XFX 5870's wont clock over 900mhz in the controll center but my gigabyte 5870's can be clocked to 2khz (they don't work at anything over 950 though).
2771 2011-04-23 20:13:20 <kelp> I grew up in the boonies, I think as a result of that, I want to live in the opposite
2772 2011-04-23 20:13:25 <netxshare> time to find my lidocaine patches
2773 2011-04-23 20:13:27 <curiositysquared> Is there a way to make the XFX cards go over 900?
2774 2011-04-23 20:13:38 <curiositysquared> or is it something xfx did in firmware that I can't get around?
2775 2011-04-23 20:13:40 <netxshare> get a waterblock
2776 2011-04-23 20:13:53 warpi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2777 2011-04-23 20:13:56 tcatm has joined
2778 2011-04-23 20:13:57 tcatm has quit (Changing host)
2779 2011-04-23 20:13:57 tcatm has joined
2780 2011-04-23 20:14:01 <netxshare> what software are you using to overclock?
2781 2011-04-23 20:14:16 <curiositysquared> ? waterblock = watercooling? Then I could clock the gigabytes even faster?
2782 2011-04-23 20:14:31 <netxshare> if you can overclock it with the software
2783 2011-04-23 20:14:35 <curiositysquared> The xfx cards won't let me overclock them past 900. it's not a cooling problem.
2784 2011-04-23 20:14:37 <netxshare> and just are having problems with it running
2785 2011-04-23 20:14:43 <netxshare> ah
2786 2011-04-23 20:14:51 <netxshare> have you tried any other software?
2787 2011-04-23 20:14:57 <ArtForz> try msi afterburner w/ unofficial overclocking enabled
2788 2011-04-23 20:14:59 <netxshare> other then what comes with the xfx
2789 2011-04-23 20:15:19 <curiositysquared> thanks. that's what I was asking for. msi afterburner.
2790 2011-04-23 20:15:27 <ArtForz> yeah, the xfx soft is probably crippled like CCC
2791 2011-04-23 20:15:50 <curiositysquared> Also, I think I read someone in the forum talking about tweaking their voltages
2792 2011-04-23 20:15:59 <ArtForz> yep
2793 2011-04-23 20:16:06 <curiositysquared> msi afterburner as well?
2794 2011-04-23 20:16:14 <ArtForz> yep
2795 2011-04-23 20:16:17 <ArtForz> you really have to watch temps though if you raise core V
2796 2011-04-23 20:16:31 <curiositysquared> (I was going to try lowering)
2797 2011-04-23 20:16:43 <ArtForz> oh, and ofc lowering mem clock and V ;)
2798 2011-04-23 20:17:02 <curiositysquared> some of my cards will probably be a bit happier running a little slower
2799 2011-04-23 20:17:14 <ArtForz> mem down to 300MHz clock and mem V down from 1.15 to 1.05 nets 3-4°C
2800 2011-04-23 20:17:16 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, cant you just have the card change it's clock based on heat?
2801 2011-04-23 20:17:20 <curiositysquared> pci express slots too close together.
2802 2011-04-23 20:17:26 <phantomcircuit> seems kind of stupid that they dont do so automagically
2803 2011-04-23 20:17:32 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: they do
2804 2011-04-23 20:17:49 <phantomcircuit> oh
2805 2011-04-23 20:17:51 <phantomcircuit> ok then
2806 2011-04-23 20:18:06 <phantomcircuit> so why would you need to watch temps if you're basically just increasing the maximum clock?
2807 2011-04-23 20:18:07 <ArtForz> on 5870s iirc 100°C core or 120°C VRM and they clock down to 600 core
2808 2011-04-23 20:18:32 <ArtForz> because running shit that hot 24/7 probably isn't a good idea
2809 2011-04-23 20:18:42 <phantomcircuit> hmm true
2810 2011-04-23 20:18:57 <phantomcircuit> my 140M was replaced about 4 times under warranty because of overheating
2811 2011-04-23 20:19:12 <ArtForz> guess I'd get kinda nervous at about 85°C core and 110°C VRM
2812 2011-04-23 20:19:13 <phantomcircuit> poor lenovo
2813 2011-04-23 20:19:20 <netxshare> my gtx 570 is at 72°C
2814 2011-04-23 20:19:22 d4de has joined
2815 2011-04-23 20:19:25 <ArtForz> well, nvidia mobiles just suck
2816 2011-04-23 20:19:47 <netxshare> the fermi run hot
2817 2011-04-23 20:19:54 <ArtForz> not only them
2818 2011-04-23 20:19:59 <netxshare> yeah
2819 2011-04-23 20:20:05 <ArtForz> we had about two dozen dead 8600Ms in our company, out of... about two dozen
2820 2011-04-23 20:20:09 <netxshare> 72°C is good
2821 2011-04-23 20:20:14 toffoo has joined
2822 2011-04-23 20:20:30 <netxshare> the 480 runs in the 90s
2823 2011-04-23 20:20:43 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, yeah the 140M doesn't start to down clock until about 90C
2824 2011-04-23 20:20:49 <netxshare> 500s change the cooling to "fix" the heat issue
2825 2011-04-23 20:20:51 <phantomcircuit> which is apparently too hot for it to sustain
2826 2011-04-23 20:21:02 <ArtForz> yeah
2827 2011-04-23 20:21:22 <ArtForz> IIRC the chip underfill starts to weakens beyond ~80°C
2828 2011-04-23 20:21:44 <phantomcircuit> well either way i had an extended warranty
2829 2011-04-23 20:21:48 <phantomcircuit> i tend to drop things
2830 2011-04-23 20:21:54 <ArtForz> enough temp cycling above that temp and the die-package balls crack
2831 2011-04-23 20:21:55 <netxshare> my laptop went out because of an overheated video card
2832 2011-04-23 20:22:02 <curiositysquared> I'm definitely running 10.11 and 2.1skd and still getting 100% cpu usage.
2833 2011-04-23 20:22:05 <ArtForz> aka bumpgate
2834 2011-04-23 20:22:18 <phantomcircuit> for $300 i had the mainboard replaced 3 times the hdd replaced once and pretty much all of the fascade replaced twice
2835 2011-04-23 20:22:26 <ArtForz> on 8xxx and 9xxx nvidia used a low-Tg underfill that actually starts to weaken at ~70°C
2836 2011-04-23 20:22:34 <phantomcircuit> i bet their actuaries dont factor that into the price of extended warranty prices
2837 2011-04-23 20:22:35 <phantomcircuit> hehe
2838 2011-04-23 20:22:52 <ArtForz> so they pretty much drop like flies after a few years
2839 2011-04-23 20:23:02 <netxshare> extended warranty is worth the money
2840 2011-04-23 20:23:29 <gjs278> the accelero dropped my vrm to 60c
2841 2011-04-23 20:23:31 eros has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2842 2011-04-23 20:23:33 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2843 2011-04-23 20:23:36 <ArtForz> on 2xx, 4xx and 5xx they switched to a similar underfill ATI uses, Tg ~80°C
2844 2011-04-23 20:23:40 <gjs278> but holy crap was it a pain
2845 2011-04-23 20:23:54 <ArtForz> oh wait, accelero 5870
2846 2011-04-23 20:24:00 <ArtForz> yeah, those are pretty good
2847 2011-04-23 20:24:07 <ArtForz> just the 5970 acceleros suck balls
2848 2011-04-23 20:24:20 <gjs278> my card wasn't reference... that was fun
2849 2011-04-23 20:24:27 <ArtForz> ouch
2850 2011-04-23 20:24:30 <gjs278> had to buy a shitload of little copper heatsinks
2851 2011-04-23 20:24:50 <ArtForz> core temp w/ accelero is fucking awesome
2852 2011-04-23 20:24:53 <curiositysquared> Does anyone have any idea what is going on with all the activity the last week?
2853 2011-04-23 20:25:16 <ArtForz> my 5970s ran at like 60°C core
2854 2011-04-23 20:25:28 <netxshare> with stock cooling?
2855 2011-04-23 20:25:28 <ArtForz> just the 5970s VRM cooler is so bad it's not even funny
2856 2011-04-23 20:25:34 <ArtForz> no, accelero 5970
2857 2011-04-23 20:25:37 <netxshare> ah
2858 2011-04-23 20:25:37 <curiositysquared> There hasn't been any big press so it seems like it's probably just a very small number of people buying 30-50k btc / day.
2859 2011-04-23 20:25:42 <kelp> curiositysquared pricing? it's now much easier to get euros into mtgox, also free
2860 2011-04-23 20:25:45 <gjs278> is there anything besides accelero for 5970
2861 2011-04-23 20:25:49 <gjs278> not water
2862 2011-04-23 20:25:51 <netxshare> you recommend replacing the cooling on a 24x7 mining rig?
2863 2011-04-23 20:25:56 <netxshare> 24/7
2864 2011-04-23 20:25:58 <ArtForz> not on 5970s
2865 2011-04-23 20:26:00 <gjs278> if it's blowing your ears out sure
2866 2011-04-23 20:26:03 <ArtForz> for 5970 it's either stock or water
2867 2011-04-23 20:26:07 <gjs278> gotcha
2868 2011-04-23 20:26:15 <netxshare> okay
2869 2011-04-23 20:26:16 <ArtForz> only "tiny" problem with 5970 acceleros, GPU1 VRMs > 100°C at stock V/clock
2870 2011-04-23 20:26:28 <gjs278> sounds safe
2871 2011-04-23 20:26:38 <ArtForz> >110°C VRM with clock @ 800 at stock V
2872 2011-04-23 20:26:41 <curiositysquared> kelp: so suddnely there has developed demand for 300k btc that didn't exist before that?
2873 2011-04-23 20:26:53 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2874 2011-04-23 20:26:55 <ArtForz> two cards dead after running like that for 4 months
2875 2011-04-23 20:26:59 <curiositysquared> The demand just seems unwarnted.
2876 2011-04-23 20:27:04 manu1 has joined
2877 2011-04-23 20:27:06 <ArtForz> GPU1 VRMs dead on both
2878 2011-04-23 20:27:14 <netxshare> eww
2879 2011-04-23 20:27:26 <ArtForz> ... yeah
2880 2011-04-23 20:27:28 <kelp> curiositysquared: I'm wondering if the demand was there, but the barrier to entry was a little too high
2881 2011-04-23 20:27:32 <ducki2p> does the guarantee cover that?
2882 2011-04-23 20:27:36 <ArtForz> nope
2883 2011-04-23 20:27:39 <netxshare> ill have to watch what I do
2884 2011-04-23 20:27:41 lulzplzkthx has joined
2885 2011-04-23 20:27:46 <ArtForz> AC is pretty much "sucks to be you, eh"
2886 2011-04-23 20:27:54 <gjs278> yeah
2887 2011-04-23 20:27:59 <gjs278> try asking ac for anything
2888 2011-04-23 20:28:03 <ArtForz> rev1 of the 5970 accelero actually killed the DVI outputs if you mounted it according to the manual
2889 2011-04-23 20:28:04 <netxshare> I am trying to stick with xfx
2890 2011-04-23 20:28:04 <gjs278> you get an answer 3 days later
2891 2011-04-23 20:28:23 <kelp> but also there has been some significant press, mentions on techdirt, forbes
2892 2011-04-23 20:28:43 <ArtForz> AC: "huh, sucks to be you", later relased a manaual that instrusts you to tighten 3 screws "about half"
2893 2011-04-23 20:28:45 <netxshare> someone could be starting up their own site for selling btc
2894 2011-04-23 20:28:52 <netxshare> and are buying a lot
2895 2011-04-23 20:29:03 <curiositysquared> That's true. It just seems like this is pure speculation. Are there really services that people want to buy with bitcoins at these quantities?
2896 2011-04-23 20:29:14 <curiositysquared> Or is ist just buy and hold speculation like gold?
2897 2011-04-23 20:29:16 <ArtForz> cause: the standoffs from AC 5970 base plate to PCB are too short by about 1.5mm
2898 2011-04-23 20:29:23 <gjs278> lol
2899 2011-04-23 20:29:30 <ArtForz> so if you tighten those screws fully, you badly bend the PCB
2900 2011-04-23 20:29:42 <netxshare> what about break?
2901 2011-04-23 20:29:45 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2902 2011-04-23 20:29:53 <netxshare> I saw a 5970 with part of the pcb broken off
2903 2011-04-23 20:30:03 <kelp> curiositysquared: I'd suspect it's more speculation right now
2904 2011-04-23 20:30:12 <ArtForz> which makes a few caps short out to the backplate, killing the DVI outputs
2905 2011-04-23 20:30:27 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2906 2011-04-23 20:30:38 <netxshare> someone could also be buying as much btc as they can via paypal
2907 2011-04-23 20:30:42 <netxshare> and then chargeback
2908 2011-04-23 20:30:42 <ArtForz> well, the digital part of em
2909 2011-04-23 20:30:47 <ArtForz> VGA and DP still works
2910 2011-04-23 20:31:11 <ArtForz> netxshare: who the fuck is still dumb enough to sell BTC for PP$ ?
2911 2011-04-23 20:31:27 <netxshare> is there not a paypal exchange?
2912 2011-04-23 20:31:51 <ArtForz> yeah, but iirc they only do tiny amounts
2913 2011-04-23 20:32:00 <netxshare> ah
2914 2011-04-23 20:32:15 <netxshare> what's the best way to get rid of large sums of BTC?
2915 2011-04-23 20:32:19 <ArtForz> like $20 max for first timers or something like that
2916 2011-04-23 20:32:44 <ArtForz> probably -otc
2917 2011-04-23 20:32:53 <kelp> or buy my car :)
2918 2011-04-23 20:33:00 <ArtForz> or mtgox and ach wire
2919 2011-04-23 20:33:08 <netxshare> alright
2920 2011-04-23 20:33:46 <netxshare> art, do you use anything to monitor your systems power usage?
2921 2011-04-23 20:34:01 <netxshare> I was thinking about using kill-a-watt
2922 2011-04-23 20:34:13 <midnightmagic> large sums of ฿ are good for dark pool orders on mtgox..
2923 2011-04-23 20:34:35 <midnightmagic> large sums defined >5-10k
2924 2011-04-23 20:34:52 <netxshare> yeah
2925 2011-04-23 20:35:16 <jrabbit> can you open new mtgox accounts now?
2926 2011-04-23 20:35:29 <midnightmagic> he closed new accounts down?
2927 2011-04-23 20:35:32 <midnightmagic> doh.
2928 2011-04-23 20:35:37 <netxshare> that sucks
2929 2011-04-23 20:35:38 <jrabbit> at one point.
2930 2011-04-23 20:35:40 <netxshare> I need one
2931 2011-04-23 20:36:00 <netxshare> it's open
2932 2011-04-23 20:36:28 <jrabbit> wow the price is waaaaay high
2933 2011-04-23 20:36:42 * jrabbit was going to ee how far he could leverage $5
2934 2011-04-23 20:36:43 <BlueMatt> high of 1.6
2935 2011-04-23 20:37:41 <tcatm> has there been any tx spamming today (around 17:00 UTC)?
2936 2011-04-23 20:38:15 freezbie has joined
2937 2011-04-23 20:38:31 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2938 2011-04-23 20:38:35 <netxshare> anyone use deepbit.net's paypal pay?
2939 2011-04-23 20:38:49 <comboy> anybody else have currently problem with bitcoin client connection to the network?
2940 2011-04-23 20:42:25 TD has joined
2941 2011-04-23 20:43:24 newb007 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2942 2011-04-23 20:43:29 <jrabbit> mtgox doesn't accept creditcards yet? :\
2943 2011-04-23 20:44:10 <rlifchitz> $1.70 !
2944 2011-04-23 20:44:33 <kelp> credit cards + bitcoin exchange would make for a very easy way to convert stolen credit cards to cash... the incentive for fraud is huge, so one would have to implement some pretty serious anti-fraud measures
2945 2011-04-23 20:44:52 danlucraft has joined
2946 2011-04-23 20:45:17 <netxshare> good reason to use another service
2947 2011-04-23 20:45:51 sacarlson has joined
2948 2011-04-23 20:46:21 <kelp> it's hard to think of a better way to convert stolen credit cards to cash while minimizing your chances of getting caught. it's no wonder people don't like to combine bitcoins with credit cards
2949 2011-04-23 20:46:50 jackSmith has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2950 2011-04-23 20:47:08 henchan has joined
2951 2011-04-23 20:47:10 <jrabbit> ah.
2952 2011-04-23 20:47:25 <jrabbit> I didn't realize the onus was on the accepter to prevent fraud lol
2953 2011-04-23 20:47:30 <kelp> yeah it is
2954 2011-04-23 20:47:34 <netxshare> oh yeah
2955 2011-04-23 20:47:37 henchan has left ()
2956 2011-04-23 20:47:39 <netxshare> same with paypal really
2957 2011-04-23 20:47:54 <netxshare> at least with virtual goods
2958 2011-04-23 20:48:05 <netxshare> now if you mailed them a wallet on a sdcard
2959 2011-04-23 20:48:07 <jrabbit> guess I'll sell some of my btc for the funds to play with then
2960 2011-04-23 20:48:07 <netxshare> that would work
2961 2011-04-23 20:48:18 <netxshare> you could have proof of shipping
2962 2011-04-23 20:48:25 <sipa> or a scratch-off card with a QR code
2963 2011-04-23 20:48:32 <kelp> virtual goods are particularly problematic because the cops can't just wait around at your PO box for your to check your mail
2964 2011-04-23 20:48:33 <netxshare> yeah
2965 2011-04-23 20:48:41 <cosurgi> wtf is going on the market??
2966 2011-04-23 20:49:08 <BlueMatt> holy shit
2967 2011-04-23 20:49:09 <netxshare> otc USD 4 1
2968 2011-04-23 20:49:09 <BlueMatt> 2,007.0000 @ 1.70
2969 2011-04-23 20:49:17 <jrabbit> hahahaa
2970 2011-04-23 20:49:52 <jrabbit> probs should have paid a fee ... :)
2971 2011-04-23 20:50:29 ArtForz has joined
2972 2011-04-23 20:50:40 patapper has joined
2973 2011-04-23 20:51:08 <jrabbit> ;;blocks
2974 2011-04-23 20:51:08 <gribble> Error: "blocks" is not a valid command.
2975 2011-04-23 20:51:13 <jrabbit> ;;block
2976 2011-04-23 20:51:14 <gribble> Error: "block" is not a valid command.
2977 2011-04-23 20:51:14 <netxshare> ;;bc,blocks
2978 2011-04-23 20:51:15 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
2979 2011-04-23 20:51:17 <jrabbit> :(
2980 2011-04-23 20:51:20 <gribble> 119825
2981 2011-04-23 20:51:22 <gribble> 119825
2982 2011-04-23 20:51:24 <netxshare> lol
2983 2011-04-23 20:51:28 <BlueMatt> mine was first ;)
2984 2011-04-23 20:51:34 <netxshare> nope
2985 2011-04-23 20:51:40 <netxshare> <netxshare> ;;bc,blocks
2986 2011-04-23 20:51:44 <BlueMatt> well it was in my log
2987 2011-04-23 20:52:02 <jrabbit> netxshare was first by 1 second or smaller...
2988 2011-04-23 20:52:08 <BlueMatt> damn
2989 2011-04-23 20:52:17 <luke-jr> koolfy: I've used Spesmilo only for at least a month
2990 2011-04-23 20:52:31 <luke-jr> [13:49:40] <koolfy> the "use internal core" checkbox is greyed out
2991 2011-04-23 20:52:46 <jrabbit> is there a way to run bitcoind to grab the blockchain every few hours?
2992 2011-04-23 20:52:53 <jrabbit> as a cron job
2993 2011-04-23 20:52:54 <BlueMatt> another 1k+ trade on mtg for 1.7
2994 2011-04-23 20:53:07 <jrabbit> wow
2995 2011-04-23 20:53:22 <luke-jr> koolfy: that means you don't have bitcoind installed in PATH (on Windows, it means you unchecked it in the installer)
2996 2011-04-23 20:53:31 <koolfy> oh, I see
2997 2011-04-23 20:53:37 <koolfy> (gentoo linux here)
2998 2011-04-23 20:53:51 <koolfy> ho can I feed it the path of my install ?
2999 2011-04-23 20:53:52 <luke-jr> koolfy: in any circumstances, you can run bitcoind local or remote and just enter the URI into Spesmilo
3000 2011-04-23 20:53:54 <koolfy> how*
3001 2011-04-23 20:53:58 <netxshare> <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
3002 2011-04-23 20:53:58 <netxshare> oh no
3003 2011-04-23 20:53:58 <netxshare> okay at least he did not parse that
3004 2011-04-23 20:53:58 <netxshare> time to go cut the grass
3005 2011-04-23 20:53:58 <netxshare> cya
3006 2011-04-23 20:54:03 <koolfy> what uri ?
3007 2011-04-23 20:54:09 <koolfy> how do I find what uri to chose ?
3008 2011-04-23 20:54:12 <luke-jr> koolfy: PATH=/path/to/dir/:$PATH spesmilo
3009 2011-04-23 20:54:23 <koolfy> ok, thank you ;)
3010 2011-04-23 20:54:30 <luke-jr> koolfy: URI is usually http://user:pass@localhost:8332
3011 2011-04-23 20:54:36 <koolfy> okay
3012 2011-04-23 20:54:44 <koolfy> thank yo uvery much for your help :)
3013 2011-04-23 20:55:01 <luke-jr> if you run it yourself
3014 2011-04-23 20:55:14 <luke-jr> np
3015 2011-04-23 20:55:16 <luke-jr> enjoy
3016 2011-04-23 20:55:44 gjs278 has joined
3017 2011-04-23 20:55:48 <lianj> PATH=$PATH:/path/to/dir/
3018 2011-04-23 20:56:46 sethsethseth has joined
3019 2011-04-23 20:57:22 Lartza has quit (Quit: Lähdössä)
3020 2011-04-23 20:59:26 <tcatm> good python/sql coders around?
3021 2011-04-23 20:59:51 <johnlockwood> sure
3022 2011-04-23 21:00:56 <jrabbit> lotsa python coders here actually
3023 2011-04-23 21:00:59 <tcatm> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ujb2tFJ1 how could I make this faster (i.e. avoiding all those SELECT queries)?
3024 2011-04-23 21:01:06 <johnlockwood> been drinking the nosql juice for a while though
3025 2011-04-23 21:01:18 xlogik has joined
3026 2011-04-23 21:01:24 * jrabbit doesnt even use dbs
3027 2011-04-23 21:01:31 <jrabbit> berkley db ftw
3028 2011-04-23 21:01:49 <jrabbit> redis im looking at because its similar
3029 2011-04-23 21:03:38 <kelp> berkeley db is kind of hard to scale across multiple systems :)
3030 2011-04-23 21:05:00 <jrabbit> yeah but its small and everywhere.
3031 2011-04-23 21:05:14 <kelp> indeed
3032 2011-04-23 21:05:40 <jrabbit> redis looks nice, the main python one lets it act as a dict
3033 2011-04-23 21:05:49 warpi has joined
3034 2011-04-23 21:05:51 <kelp> I've just had to admin and try to scale some nightmare systems that made lots of use of berkely db, not good for scaling web apps
3035 2011-04-23 21:05:58 <jrabbit> so i might use it for my task sync app
3036 2011-04-23 21:07:49 dissipate has joined
3037 2011-04-23 21:07:54 <johnlockwood> tcatm: self.trade_set.get... is the select in loop you are trying to avoid?
3038 2011-04-23 21:09:01 <tcatm> johnlockwood: yep
3039 2011-04-23 21:09:40 <tcatm> the problem is: some markets add older trades to the history so I can just add all newer than the last trade in db
3040 2011-04-23 21:12:37 fimp has joined
3041 2011-04-23 21:13:06 borneq has joined
3042 2011-04-23 21:13:27 <johnlockwood> so when the method gets trades, are they all new, unsaved? except some might be duplicates of existing trades?
3043 2011-04-23 21:13:31 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3044 2011-04-23 21:13:41 alkor has joined
3045 2011-04-23 21:13:58 <tcatm> johnlockwood: lots of duplicated trades, a few new ones.
3046 2011-04-23 21:15:20 <johnlockwood> is there a limit to how far back the duplicate trades go?
3047 2011-04-23 21:15:51 <tcatm> I don't know... most will be within the last few days.
3048 2011-04-23 21:16:15 <johnlockwood> so a large percent would be recent trades
3049 2011-04-23 21:16:18 <tcatm> ...if any
3050 2011-04-23 21:16:29 <tcatm> yep, most likely 99% old trades, 1% new
3051 2011-04-23 21:16:34 <dbitcoin> ;;bc,stats
3052 2011-04-23 21:16:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 119825 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 1134 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 3 hours, 2 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 102244.95929152
3053 2011-04-23 21:18:46 tenach has joined
3054 2011-04-23 21:20:24 <johnlockwood> tcatm: you could cache added trades and look up older trades there, if not found in cache, then query for it, and if it exists, then cache it too
3055 2011-04-23 21:20:30 <johnlockwood> memecache
3056 2011-04-23 21:20:44 <tcatm> hrm
3057 2011-04-23 21:21:44 <tcatm> what if I deleted all trades newer than first trade in trades and re-added everything?
3058 2011-04-23 21:22:29 xlogik has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3059 2011-04-23 21:23:03 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3060 2011-04-23 21:23:25 antivigilante_ has joined
3061 2011-04-23 21:23:49 <johnlockwood> ok, here: make them idpotent by encoding the 3 values into a key
3062 2011-04-23 21:24:07 <johnlockwood> ooh, can you do that in sql
3063 2011-04-23 21:24:18 antivigilante has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3064 2011-04-23 21:24:26 <johnlockwood> I've been thinking keyvalue store
3065 2011-04-23 21:24:42 <johnlockwood> there you could just overwrite the trade with the same key
3066 2011-04-23 21:24:53 <tcatm> there's another problem with that: trades can have identical timestamp, price and volume
3067 2011-04-23 21:25:23 <johnlockwood> right, so your current solution won't work
3068 2011-04-23 21:25:23 <luke-jr> koolfy: so, whatcha think?
3069 2011-04-23 21:25:59 <johnlockwood> tcatm: what is the unique id of a trade?
3070 2011-04-23 21:26:07 <koolfy> luke-jr: pretty cool !
3071 2011-04-23 21:26:16 <tcatm> johnlockwood: it doesn't have anything that makes it unique
3072 2011-04-23 21:26:23 <koolfy> luke-jr: I can translate it to french if you tell me how to do it
3073 2011-04-23 21:26:31 <koolfy> and spanish too,
3074 2011-04-23 21:26:42 <johnlockwood> tcatm: the traders?
3075 2011-04-23 21:26:56 <tcatm> traders?
3076 2011-04-23 21:27:11 <johnlockwood> tcatm: who is making the trade
3077 2011-04-23 21:27:13 <tcatm> http://mtgox.com/code/data/getTrades.php this is the raw data
3078 2011-04-23 21:27:42 <tcatm> I map that to t[0] .. t[2] and pass it to addTrades
3079 2011-04-23 21:29:02 <luke-jr> koolfy: it already has French O.o?
3080 2011-04-23 21:29:17 <luke-jr> koolfy: open/copy the .ts in i18n dir
3081 2011-04-23 21:29:27 <koolfy> I onlt see "american" as langage
3082 2011-04-23 21:29:35 <koolfy> only*
3083 2011-04-23 21:29:39 <luke-jr> koolfy: did you run 'make'? ;)
3084 2011-04-23 21:29:44 <johnlockwood> tcatm: is this for charting, does it matter if the odd two trades are identical?
3085 2011-04-23 21:29:45 <luke-jr> or do you mean, using ebuild?
3086 2011-04-23 21:29:47 <koolfy> I used the gentoo ebuild
3087 2011-04-23 21:29:51 <luke-jr> check your LINGUAS
3088 2011-04-23 21:30:03 <luke-jr> oh, hmm
3089 2011-04-23 21:30:04 <johnlockwood> tcatm: i mean if we think they are the same and combined
3090 2011-04-23 21:30:09 <luke-jr> I might need to do some work on ebuild
3091 2011-04-23 21:30:34 <tcatm> johnlockwood: sure, we could in theory combine them by adding the volumes
3092 2011-04-23 21:31:07 <johnlockwood> tcatm: i mean if we think they are the same trades and throw out one
3093 2011-04-23 21:31:34 <johnlockwood> tcatm: will it mess with anyones account?
3094 2011-04-23 21:31:42 <tcatm> nope
3095 2011-04-23 21:32:17 <johnlockwood> if that is all the data you have on the trades, then isn't that the best you can do
3096 2011-04-23 21:32:26 <rlifchitz> no block found since 1h
3097 2011-04-23 21:32:31 <rlifchitz> ...
3098 2011-04-23 21:34:51 xxxxxxx`brb is now known as xxxxxxx
3099 2011-04-23 21:34:55 Guest10739 has joined
3100 2011-04-23 21:35:57 <Guest10739> I am about to start building a simple store (one product for now) to accept bitcoin. I am wondering if there is any existing code out there for reuse to do things 'properly'
3101 2011-04-23 21:36:10 Guest10739 is now known as gdoteof-home
3102 2011-04-23 21:36:17 gwelymernan has joined
3103 2011-04-23 21:36:27 sethsethseth____ has joined
3104 2011-04-23 21:36:27 <gdoteof-home> sorry Guest10739 = me
3105 2011-04-23 21:36:41 gdoteof-home is now known as gdoteof_home
3106 2011-04-23 21:37:22 toffoo has quit ()
3107 2011-04-23 21:37:22 <AmpEater> I just scored some awesome bitcoin .coms
3108 2011-04-23 21:37:27 xlogik has joined
3109 2011-04-23 21:37:28 coinuser has joined
3110 2011-04-23 21:37:36 <coinuser> hi
3111 2011-04-23 21:37:40 <AmpEater> bitcoinbikes.com moterlovers!
3112 2011-04-23 21:37:45 <coinuser> on winblows 'system'
3113 2011-04-23 21:37:49 <coinuser> without installing git
3114 2011-04-23 21:37:56 <coinuser> how to download current bitcoin source?
3115 2011-04-23 21:38:05 <coinuser> is there some package like .zip of recent?
3116 2011-04-23 21:38:26 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3117 2011-04-23 21:38:47 <gdoteof_home> coinuser: you can just get it straight from github
3118 2011-04-23 21:38:49 <gdoteof_home> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
3119 2011-04-23 21:38:56 <gdoteof_home> you don't need to clone w/ git
3120 2011-04-23 21:39:01 <gdoteof_home> click the download link
3121 2011-04-23 21:39:10 gruez has joined
3122 2011-04-23 21:39:17 <coinuser> ah ok
3123 2011-04-23 21:39:27 <dotblank> AmpEater, What .coms?
3124 2011-04-23 21:39:28 skyewm has joined
3125 2011-04-23 21:39:29 <gdoteof_home> choose tarball or zip
3126 2011-04-23 21:39:38 <dotblank> do you have anything like mobilbitcoin
3127 2011-04-23 21:39:54 <gdoteof_home> i got bitcoinspot
3128 2011-04-23 21:39:57 <gdoteof_home> .com
3129 2011-04-23 21:40:31 <AmpEater> bitcointoday.com, bitcoinonline.com, bitcoinmotors.com, bitcoinbikes.com, bitcoinebikes.com, bitcointrikes.com, bitcoinvehicles.com
3130 2011-04-23 21:40:49 <AmpEater> I plan on selling electric bikes, trikes, motorcycles, etc....
3131 2011-04-23 21:40:53 <johnlockwood> tcatm: are you polling that url to get trades and just re-adding the whole feed?
3132 2011-04-23 21:41:04 <tcatm> johnlockwood: yep
3133 2011-04-23 21:41:16 <AmpEater> I'm going to be the #1 electric vehicle bitcoin destination :)
3134 2011-04-23 21:41:25 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3135 2011-04-23 21:41:30 sethsethseth____ has joined
3136 2011-04-23 21:41:31 <dotblank> awesome
3137 2011-04-23 21:41:49 <borneq> Block 119,825 was very long time, it is correct?
3138 2011-04-23 21:41:59 <johnlockwood> tcatm: that trade list is pretty small right now, but isn't it going keep growing?
3139 2011-04-23 21:42:03 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3140 2011-04-23 21:42:17 <johnlockwood> is it going to always have the whole history?
3141 2011-04-23 21:42:19 <AmpEater> I hate mastercard, visa, paypal, the fed.....so I'm not comprimising my ethics to start a biz
3142 2011-04-23 21:42:37 <tcatm> johnlockwood: nope, only last few days
3143 2011-04-23 21:42:48 <tcatm> though some markets like bcm actually have the whole history
3144 2011-04-23 21:42:58 toffoo has joined
3145 2011-04-23 21:43:15 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r0b2bd6b0114b spesmilo/Makefile: install i18n files, and allow controlling via LINGUAS make var http://tinyurl.com/3mcjott
3146 2011-04-23 21:43:32 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r6789f27ad261 spesmilo/ (7 files in 2 dirs): make non-English languages region-independent http://tinyurl.com/3dytopb
3147 2011-04-23 21:43:46 <dotblank> It would be cool to have an open source farm that runs with bitcoins
3148 2011-04-23 21:43:47 <dotblank> http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Main_Page
3149 2011-04-23 21:44:15 <johnlockwood> tcatm: so that list it self isn't going to have duplicate trades in it, it's just the problem of re-downloading the same list over and over again and only wanting to add the ones you haven't got yet
3150 2011-04-23 21:46:11 BCBot has joined
3151 2011-04-23 21:47:23 <coinuser> what is the format of getwork?
3152 2011-04-23 21:47:34 <tcatm> johnlockwood: mhm. I need to think more about it. Meanwhile, I switched db engine to InnoDB (has transactions). Lowered load a little (from 3.48 to 0.23)
3153 2011-04-23 21:48:06 roconnor has joined
3154 2011-04-23 21:48:10 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, lol that's more than a little
3155 2011-04-23 21:48:12 <jgarzik> coinuser: 'data' is block header, 'target' is target, 'midstate' is sha256 midstate
3156 2011-04-23 21:48:26 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: still too much
3157 2011-04-23 21:48:29 <coinuser> thank you mister copypaste from source
3158 2011-04-23 21:48:31 <coinuser> ;)
3159 2011-04-23 21:48:44 <roconnor> what is the type of data on the stack in scripting? Is each stack item an 8-bit byte?
3160 2011-04-23 21:48:58 <ArtForz> no
3161 2011-04-23 21:48:59 <jgarzik> coinuser: eh? that's memory
3162 2011-04-23 21:49:09 <coinuser> source says also there is
3163 2011-04-23 21:49:10 <johnlockwood> tcatm: I'm thinking maybe you could use difflib to compare the previous and current request of that feed
3164 2011-04-23 21:49:20 <ArtForz> roconnor: each item is a bigint
3165 2011-04-23 21:49:22 <coinuser> \"midstate\" : precomputed hash state after hashing the first half of the data\n"
3166 2011-04-23 21:49:28 d4de has joined
3167 2011-04-23 21:49:32 <jgarzik> yes
3168 2011-04-23 21:49:45 <tcatm> johnlockwood: maybe I should try to fetch all trades and keep them in a list
3169 2011-04-23 21:49:47 <jgarzik> first 64 bytes
3170 2011-04-23 21:49:48 <coinuser> \"hash1\" : formatted hash buffer for second hash\n"
3171 2011-04-23 21:50:05 <coinuser> how this two things differ midstate <-> hash1
3172 2011-04-23 21:50:20 <roconnor> ArtForz: so OP_PUSHDATA4 00 00 00 00 and OP_PUSHDATA2 00 00 and OP_0 are all equivalent commands then?
3173 2011-04-23 21:50:20 <tcatm> then walk through both lists, find any differences and add those trades
3174 2011-04-23 21:50:39 <ArtForz> yes
3175 2011-04-23 21:50:45 <roconnor> ArtForz: Thanks
3176 2011-04-23 21:50:50 <phantomcircuit> roconnor, yes and no, they have the same effect but cannot be silently substituted due to how OP_CHECKSIG works
3177 2011-04-23 21:50:56 <phantomcircuit> which i learned the annoying way
3178 2011-04-23 21:51:09 <ArtForz> well, err... duh. ;)
3179 2011-04-23 21:51:13 <coinuser> ion each nonce iteration a miner is incrementing nonce, it calculates double sha256 ?
3180 2011-04-23 21:51:19 <roconnor> phantomcircuit: because OP_CHECKSIG cares about exactly the bytecodes used?
3181 2011-04-23 21:51:23 <ArtForz> yep
3182 2011-04-23 21:51:48 <roconnor> good thing to be aware of
3183 2011-04-23 21:51:51 <coinuser> ArtForz: you need to use tab completion eventually with this yeps ;)
3184 2011-04-23 21:51:58 <ArtForz> yep
3185 2011-04-23 21:52:38 <coinuser> thank... wait... fuuuuuuu
3186 2011-04-23 21:52:42 <ArtForz> well, yep to both, so.. yep
3187 2011-04-23 21:52:43 <johnlockwood> tcatm: yes, module level in memory caching should work for now
3188 2011-04-23 21:53:01 <roconnor> OP_CHECKSIG is a little bit complicated :D I'm working it out now.
3189 2011-04-23 21:53:03 <coinuser> is midstate anyway needed for miner?
3190 2011-04-23 21:53:12 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r7eb054d23595 gentoo/net-p2p/spesmilo/ (Manifest spesmilo-0.0.1_beta1.ebuild): net-p2p/spesmilo-0.0.1_beta1: release http://tinyurl.com/3jzls7a
3191 2011-04-23 21:53:20 <tcatm> johnlockwood: I wish all markets had unique order IDs. that would make it so much easier.
3192 2011-04-23 21:53:30 <coinuser> or is only ['data'] part of getwork important (and target) to mine?
3193 2011-04-23 21:53:45 <johnlockwood> tcatm: with that feed it self have any duplicates?
3194 2011-04-23 21:53:48 <luke-jr> koolfy: try updating from git (-9999)
3195 2011-04-23 21:53:54 <koolfy> ok
3196 2011-04-23 21:53:57 <ArtForz> you can calc midstate yourself from data
3197 2011-04-23 21:54:05 <tcatm> johnlockwood: yes, sometimes there are duplicates
3198 2011-04-23 21:54:17 chuck251 has joined
3199 2011-04-23 21:54:29 <ArtForz> it's really just to save every miner from having to calculate the first half hash once, imo premature optimization
3200 2011-04-23 21:54:33 <coinuser> ArtForz: miner looks for N so that sha256( sha256( midstate + N ) ) < target ?
3201 2011-04-23 21:54:50 <ArtForz> not quite
3202 2011-04-23 21:55:05 <ArtForz> miner iterates nNonce
3203 2011-04-23 21:55:06 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3204 2011-04-23 21:55:23 <ArtForz> = last dword in block header
3205 2011-04-23 21:55:28 <coinuser> care to correct my formula?
3206 2011-04-23 21:55:50 <ArtForz> sha256 operates on 512 bit blocks, header is 80 bytes = 64 + 16 + padding
3207 2011-04-23 21:56:05 <coinuser> block header is what part of bytes of [data] part of getwork
3208 2011-04-23 21:56:15 <johnlockwood> tcatm: you could keep two sets, one where you only keep one of seemingly duplicate trades and one set where you keep all
3209 2011-04-23 21:56:29 <ArtForz> first 80 (well, it also contains the correct padding trailer to make it 1024 bits)
3210 2011-04-23 21:56:47 <ArtForz> the padding is constant though
3211 2011-04-23 21:57:08 <ArtForz> whoever came up with it never heard of bandwidth efficiency I guess
3212 2011-04-23 21:57:10 <coinuser> trying to understand the mining process
3213 2011-04-23 21:57:21 <jgarzik> coinuser: first 80 bytes
3214 2011-04-23 21:57:26 <coinuser> we gat getwork data
3215 2011-04-23 21:57:31 <jgarzik> coinuser: last 4 bytes are 32-bit nonce that you increment
3216 2011-04-23 21:57:37 <coinuser> then we basically read the [data] portion of RPC and the [target]
3217 2011-04-23 21:57:55 <johnlockwood> tcatm: comparing lists are going to be a O(n^2) problem, better to come up with a hash table
3218 2011-04-23 21:58:01 <jgarzik> coinuser: increment nonce, hash 80 bytes. increment nonce, hash 80 bytes. repeat. That is the core [unoptimized] algorithm.
3219 2011-04-23 21:58:19 <jgarzik> well, technically, hash(hash(80 bytes))
3220 2011-04-23 21:58:45 <ArtForz> as the first 64 bytes are constant while we count up nonce, we can just caluclate the hash state after doing those
3221 2011-04-23 21:59:07 <koolfy> luke-jr: still nothinb but american and default
3222 2011-04-23 21:59:11 <ArtForz> and only hash the last 16 bytes of header and do the outer hash
3223 2011-04-23 21:59:19 <coinuser> so [data] part of RPC getwork result is 1024 bytes, but just first 80 (#0..#79) are important, and of this we increase last 4 bytes untill sha256(sha256(data_80_with_modified_nonce)) < target
3224 2011-04-23 21:59:20 <ArtForz> so instead of 3 we only have to do 2 sha256 blocks per try
3225 2011-04-23 21:59:24 <ArtForz> no
3226 2011-04-23 21:59:25 <ArtForz> 1024 bits
3227 2011-04-23 21:59:31 <luke-jr> koolfy: did you update the overlay?
3228 2011-04-23 21:59:35 <phantomcircuit> so the nonce overflows roughly every 10 seconds on a gpu
3229 2011-04-23 21:59:35 <ArtForz> aka 128 bytes
3230 2011-04-23 21:59:36 <phantomcircuit> lol
3231 2011-04-23 21:59:43 <coinuser> s/bytes/bits . now all ok? :)
3232 2011-04-23 21:59:45 <koolfy> luke-jr: yes I did
3233 2011-04-23 21:59:51 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: ...unless you also increment ntime
3234 2011-04-23 22:00:07 <koolfy> commit:6789f27ad2616345c791dbae08c4ffac8cac506b
3235 2011-04-23 22:00:12 <ArtForz> but only the first 80 bytes are ever changing, the last 48 are 100% constant (just padding and length)
3236 2011-04-23 22:00:28 <coinuser> jgarzik: what is position/length of ntime and of extra_nonce in the data[] ?
3237 2011-04-23 22:00:45 <ArtForz> extra nocne is inside first tx which arent in header directly
3238 2011-04-23 22:00:51 <jgarzik> coinuser: extranonce is in the coinbase, outside the 80byte header. see main.h for CBlock layout
3239 2011-04-23 22:00:54 <ArtForz> they get hashed to the 32 byte hmerkleroot in header
3240 2011-04-23 22:01:08 <coinuser> what is 'coinbase'? markelroot ?
3241 2011-04-23 22:01:09 <ArtForz> ntime is 2nd dword of 2nd half of header
3242 2011-04-23 22:01:16 <ArtForz> read the fine wiki?
3243 2011-04-23 22:01:27 <johnlockwood> tcatm: you want to protect the previously loaded list of trades by saving them to a blob or file, because you could loose the instance at any time
3244 2011-04-23 22:01:43 <ArtForz> so... bytes 68-71 (inclusive)
3245 2011-04-23 22:02:39 <luke-jr> koolfy: your LINGUAS includes fr?
3246 2011-04-23 22:02:50 <ArtForz> complete block header is (4 byte version) (32 byte prevblockhash) (32 byte merkleroot) (4 byte ntime) (4 byte nbits) (4 byte nnonce)
3247 2011-04-23 22:03:02 <koolfy> yes luke-jr
3248 2011-04-23 22:03:07 <coinuser> so the miner has no choice but to ask bitcoind for another getwork if it is on GPU each like 20 seconds because it can not itself increment extra_nonce ... or, can it simply by itself increment ntime
3249 2011-04-23 22:03:12 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r6d857614af0e spesmilo/ (5 files in 2 dirs): move Windows stuff off into a directory so it doesn't interfere with *nix install http://tinyurl.com/3b2qcwk
3250 2011-04-23 22:03:18 <luke-jr> koolfy: what is your overlay's rev?
3251 2011-04-23 22:03:26 <ArtForz> in theory it can just increment ntime once a second
3252 2011-04-23 22:03:35 Anonymous_777 has joined
3253 2011-04-23 22:03:38 <koolfy> luke-jr: how can I see that ?
3254 2011-04-23 22:03:38 <ArtForz> in practice that iirc causes collisions
3255 2011-04-23 22:03:45 <coinuser> how?
3256 2011-04-23 22:04:02 <coinuser> and between who
3257 2011-04-23 22:04:10 <ArtForz> getwork can hand the same extranonce to two different miners with different ntimes
3258 2011-04-23 22:04:49 <luke-jr> koolfy: GIT_DIR=/var/lib/layman/bitcoin/.git/ git log
3259 2011-04-23 22:04:53 <luke-jr> koolfy: but I forgot to push ^^
3260 2011-04-23 22:04:54 <ArtForz> so if you have multiple miners on one node, one gets a lower ntime, increments it, now trys the exact same hashes as another miner did
3261 2011-04-23 22:05:04 <luke-jr> koolfy: update the overlay again
3262 2011-04-23 22:05:04 <coinuser> oh
3263 2011-04-23 22:05:30 <tcatm> johnlockwood: I keep daily db backups.
3264 2011-04-23 22:05:34 <coinuser> ArtForz: why not patch bitcoind to fix it?
3265 2011-04-23 22:05:41 <koolfy> How does address generation work ? you get around 100 when you create the wallet and when you reach that number you have to create another wallet ? in this case, you can't lose anything if you restofre from an old backup of the same wallet, even after transactions and address generations ?
3266 2011-04-23 22:05:43 <koolfy> luke-jr: ok
3267 2011-04-23 22:05:47 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3268 2011-04-23 22:05:50 <ArtForz> coinuser: because it's not easy to fix
3269 2011-04-23 22:06:07 <luke-jr> koolfy: every time you use one of those 100, it makes another one
3270 2011-04-23 22:06:15 <koolfy> oh, ok.
3271 2011-04-23 22:06:22 <luke-jr> koolfy: so your wallet always has 100 free addresses
3272 2011-04-23 22:06:23 <ArtForz> and I don't fuck with getwork anyways, as I have implemented my own binary miner protocol
3273 2011-04-23 22:06:23 AmpEater has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3274 2011-04-23 22:06:33 <koolfy> luke-jr: I see.
3275 2011-04-23 22:06:46 <luke-jr> koolfy: the reason it stays 100 ahead, is so your backups are not immediately stale
3276 2011-04-23 22:06:48 <coinuser> ArtForz: is it a problem in IncrementExtraNonce(pblock, pindexPrev, nExtraNonce, nPrevTime); ?
3277 2011-04-23 22:06:52 <ArtForz> yea
3278 2011-04-23 22:06:59 <koolfy> luke-jr: ty :)
3279 2011-04-23 22:07:01 <luke-jr> you just need to backup every 100 txns
3280 2011-04-23 22:07:02 <koolfy> is that so with any client ?
3281 2011-04-23 22:07:03 <ArtForz> notice it resets nExtraNonce if nTime changes
3282 2011-04-23 22:07:12 <luke-jr> koolfy: that's wallet-dependent
3283 2011-04-23 22:07:15 <ArtForz> so two miners can get the same extranonce with different nTimes
3284 2011-04-23 22:07:18 <luke-jr> koolfy: bitcoind/wxbitcoin do 100
3285 2011-04-23 22:07:22 <johnlockwood> tcatm: I propose storing recent requests of the feed in the db, so you can reload back into memory if something goes wrong
3286 2011-04-23 22:07:31 <luke-jr> koolfy: hopefully a future wallet will allow you to configure it
3287 2011-04-23 22:07:32 <koolfy> luke-jr: ok, what does the default one do ?
3288 2011-04-23 22:07:35 <koolfy> ok
3289 2011-04-23 22:07:36 <coinuser> ArtForz: so solution could be to never reset nExtraNonce to 0, just wrap it on overflow?
3290 2011-04-23 22:07:38 <warpi> have anyone managed to get GPU mining to work on ubuntu?
3291 2011-04-23 22:07:40 <luke-jr> maybe even alert you when it makes new addresses
3292 2011-04-23 22:07:46 Anonymous_777 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3293 2011-04-23 22:08:09 <ArtForz> coinuser: still same shit, we limit nExtraNonce to 0-127 for some reason (probably to save 1-3 bytes block)
3294 2011-04-23 22:08:14 <luke-jr> IMO, it would be very nice, if the wallet software never 'invalidated' backups without permission
3295 2011-04-23 22:08:27 <koolfy> luke-jr: obviously :/
3296 2011-04-23 22:08:32 <coinuser> warpi: Raiser, but the configuration process made him insane and he killed his wife
3297 2011-04-23 22:08:49 <warpi> coinuser, lol :)
3298 2011-04-23 22:08:58 <warpi> just found this.. i will try it
3299 2011-04-23 22:08:59 <warpi> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2636
3300 2011-04-23 22:09:01 <johnlockwood> tcatm: on reload you'd want to check the list to see if you were in the middle of adding the trades when you had a crash
3301 2011-04-23 22:09:11 <ArtForz> luke-jr: thas be pretty easy to implement really
3302 2011-04-23 22:09:17 <coinuser> ArtForz: that is nice that we save this 3 bytes, they must fell speciall compared to thoes 944 padding bytes
3303 2011-04-23 22:09:17 <coinuser> bits
3304 2011-04-23 22:09:55 <tcatm> johnlockwood: addTrades() is wrapped in a transaction so it either completes withour errors or does not change anything at all
3305 2011-04-23 22:10:07 <luke-jr> ArtForz: except for the wallet protocol part :P
3306 2011-04-23 22:10:11 <ArtForz> ?
3307 2011-04-23 22:10:31 <luke-jr> ArtForz: need a way to communicate "out of addresses" to the user, and for them to authorize creating more
3308 2011-04-23 22:10:40 <luke-jr> JSON-RPC could probably be hacked to do it I guess
3309 2011-04-23 22:10:42 <ArtForz> it changes gen_key so it's a crypto prng seeded by secret+nonce counter in wallet
3310 2011-04-23 22:10:54 <koolfy> you let the user configure a backup command done every 99 transactions
3311 2011-04-23 22:10:55 <luke-jr> â¦
3312 2011-04-23 22:10:59 <koolfy> 99 generations*
3313 2011-04-23 22:11:00 <ArtForz> = back it up once, you can recreate any key it'll create ever
3314 2011-04-23 22:11:18 <luke-jr> ArtForz: and if someone steals it, they have all your keys ever :P
3315 2011-04-23 22:11:45 <luke-jr> anyhow, I would hope it adds entropy to the PRNG regularly
3316 2011-04-23 22:11:49 <ArtForz> which is a *lot* worse than "all keys you used + 100"
3317 2011-04-23 22:11:52 <ArtForz> right?
3318 2011-04-23 22:11:57 <coinuser> ArtForz: so btw one node is limited to 2^(3*8) miners?
3319 2011-04-23 22:12:13 <luke-jr> in fact, I might hack mine to use real random instead â¦
3320 2011-04-23 22:12:15 <koolfy> whatever happens, when the keys are stolen, it's game over
3321 2011-04-23 22:12:21 <luke-jr> not sure I like the idea of PRNG for crypto
3322 2011-04-23 22:12:39 <ArtForz> luke-jr: you do realize we use openssls "p"rng by default
3323 2011-04-23 22:12:46 <luke-jr> ArtForz: nope
3324 2011-04-23 22:12:49 <coinuser> wait, we limit nExtraNonce to VALUES between 0-127 ?
3325 2011-04-23 22:12:55 <ArtForz> if that one is broken, the internet at large is fucked
3326 2011-04-23 22:12:55 <coinuser> so max 127 miners on 1 bitcoind?
3327 2011-04-23 22:13:09 <iera> it isnt? :p
3328 2011-04-23 22:13:13 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r74fe13dbf130 gentoo/net-p2p/spesmilo/ (Manifest spesmilo-9999.ebuild): net-p2p/spesmilo-9999: install i18n based on LINGUAS http://tinyurl.com/3tjxect
3329 2011-04-23 22:13:23 <luke-jr> ArtForz: doesn't the internet at large use real RNG for crypto?
3330 2011-04-23 22:13:35 <ArtForz> unless you're a debian ossl maintainer
3331 2011-04-23 22:13:41 <ArtForz> then the internet at large *is* fucked
3332 2011-04-23 22:13:44 <luke-jr> maybe not real-time communications like SSL/SSH, but for PGP and such
3333 2011-04-23 22:14:11 <ArtForz> iirc ossl uses /dev/random if it's available
3334 2011-04-23 22:14:14 <gdoteof_home> do bitcoin transactions have an optional message built in? i am trying to make the simplest ordering software possible. ideally, i would like to just say 'send your coins and a message to what you want to [insert newly generated address]' and then just poll the new addresses for payments
3335 2011-04-23 22:14:24 <ArtForz> so add a hadrware RNg to your sytsem, and it'll happily use entropy from it
3336 2011-04-23 22:14:43 <tcatm> gdoteof_home: nope
3337 2011-04-23 22:14:45 <ArtForz> gdoteof_home: nope
3338 2011-04-23 22:14:57 <ArtForz> awww, 2slow
3339 2011-04-23 22:14:59 <tcatm> gdoteof_home: use the address to match the payment to a message
3340 2011-04-23 22:15:32 <tcatm> gdoteof_home: i.e. let user enter message, show address, wait for bitcoins received at that address
3341 2011-04-23 22:15:44 <gdoteof_home> tcatm: so i am going to have to store the addresses attached to the orders for the in a seperate database
3342 2011-04-23 22:15:58 warpi has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
3343 2011-04-23 22:16:06 <ArtForz> gdoteof_home: yeah
3344 2011-04-23 22:17:00 <gdoteof_home> ArtForz: ok. before i reinvent the wheel is there anything implemented and open sourced that does some of this work?
3345 2011-04-23 22:17:12 <gdoteof_home> that you or anyone knows of, that is
3346 2011-04-23 22:17:14 <ArtForz> I think so
3347 2011-04-23 22:17:36 <ArtForz> can't remember, probably in the dev forum... anyone?
3348 2011-04-23 22:17:49 <gdoteof_home> ArtForz: i'll check the dev forum
3349 2011-04-23 22:18:07 <luke-jr> ArtForz: all Linux has /dev/random
3350 2011-04-23 22:19:05 <ArtForz> luke-jr: what?
3351 2011-04-23 22:19:41 <borneq> quit
3352 2011-04-23 22:20:12 borneq has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3353 2011-04-23 22:20:19 <johnlockwood> tcatm: Is there any documentation on the mtgox data api?
3354 2011-04-23 22:20:59 <tcatm> johnlockwood: nothing useful http://mtgox.com/support/tradeAPI
3355 2011-04-23 22:21:23 xxxxxxx is now known as xxxxxxx`brb
3356 2011-04-23 22:22:30 <grbgout> what about that bitcoin mail thing, for messages associated with addresses?
3357 2011-04-23 22:22:34 amiller has joined
3358 2011-04-23 22:22:36 <grbgout> bitmail, is it?
3359 2011-04-23 22:23:08 <mizerydearia> ;;seen falsifian
3360 2011-04-23 22:23:08 <gribble> I have not seen falsifian.
3361 2011-04-23 22:23:12 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r83e17d45807d spesmilo/ (5 files in 3 dirs): make non-English languages region-independent (missing bits) http://tinyurl.com/3kwkjue
3362 2011-04-23 22:26:11 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3363 2011-04-23 22:27:59 <gdoteof_home> oh drupal has a bitcoin payment already
3364 2011-04-23 22:28:05 <lulzplzkthx> I'm kind of scared by the BTC deflation...
3365 2011-04-23 22:28:11 <gdoteof_home> too EZ.
3366 2011-04-23 22:28:13 <lulzplzkthx> Is it all going to crash in a week or two?
3367 2011-04-23 22:28:18 <lulzplzkthx> Or a couple days?
3368 2011-04-23 22:28:36 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: I sure hope so
3369 2011-04-23 22:28:46 <gdoteof_home> lulzplzkthx: right.. idk what is going on. i mean long term i think we are still way way low, but it's a crazy bubble right now
3370 2011-04-23 22:29:15 <lulzplzkthx> Also, ffs, can I cancel a transaction that has 0/confirmations? I had no transaction fee, so it's been sitting there for ~10 blocks. I want to cancel and start over with a fee. >_>
3371 2011-04-23 22:29:20 <amiller> what's the explanation? isn't there a story
3372 2011-04-23 22:29:45 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: can't :P
3373 2011-04-23 22:29:54 <amiller> there was that time with the NY Times magazine story
3374 2011-04-23 22:30:02 <lulzplzkthx> ffs >_>
3375 2011-04-23 22:30:22 <luke-jr> amiller: there was just articles in TIME and Forbes
3376 2011-04-23 22:30:37 <lulzplzkthx> Oh, one more question: When all 21mil Bitcoins are distributed, why not just drop the difficulty super low?
3377 2011-04-23 22:30:54 <lulzplzkthx> If you dropped it super low, transactions would be zippy.
3378 2011-04-23 22:30:55 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: because there's no gain
3379 2011-04-23 22:30:58 <luke-jr> nope
3380 2011-04-23 22:30:59 <lulzplzkthx> Risk of double spending?
3381 2011-04-23 22:31:13 <lulzplzkthx> (elevated)
3382 2011-04-23 22:31:27 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: if you made it every 1 minute, it would take 60 confirmations instead of 6
3383 2011-04-23 22:31:37 <lulzplzkthx> Ah.
3384 2011-04-23 22:31:48 mmoya has joined
3385 2011-04-23 22:31:49 <lulzplzkthx> Why is 6 the magic number, anyway
3386 2011-04-23 22:32:09 <luke-jr> read the paper
3387 2011-04-23 22:32:17 <lulzplzkthx> Fuu, okay.
3388 2011-04-23 22:32:28 <lulzplzkthx> I mean teh way I always saw it was at that point it was just so hard that it probably wouldn't happen...
3389 2011-04-23 22:32:42 <lulzplzkthx> Because they would haeve theoretically distributed to the whole chain by hat time.
3390 2011-04-23 22:33:57 <amiller> oh wow the forbes article has psilocybin in the title
3391 2011-04-23 22:34:25 <ArtForz> whoa
3392 2011-04-23 22:34:26 <amiller> but they didn't elaborate on it - it will be really exciting to see how bitcoin's reputation develops
3393 2011-04-23 22:36:28 <netxshare> bleh
3394 2011-04-23 22:36:50 <netxshare> I got half of the yard done
3395 2011-04-23 22:36:54 <netxshare> my back is shot
3396 2011-04-23 22:36:59 coinuser has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3397 2011-04-23 22:37:01 <ArtForz> like press, any rep is better than no rep
3398 2011-04-23 22:37:11 <netxshare> indeed
3399 2011-04-23 22:37:16 <netxshare> look at wikileaks :P
3400 2011-04-23 22:37:41 <netxshare> people are told to stay away from it, they end up wanting to see it more
3401 2011-04-23 22:38:38 <netxshare> I took pain meds, lets see how my back is in 30min
3402 2011-04-23 22:40:10 <netxshare> hrm
3403 2011-04-23 22:41:13 TomCollins has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3404 2011-04-23 22:42:45 <lulzplzkthx> ffs
3405 2011-04-23 22:42:52 <lulzplzkthx> i sent a transaction at 4:41, it's now 6:38 local time.
3406 2011-04-23 22:43:00 <lulzplzkthx> still /unconfirmed
3407 2011-04-23 22:43:05 <lulzplzkthx> 0/unconfirmed.
3408 2011-04-23 22:43:06 <netxshare> damn
3409 2011-04-23 22:43:13 <lulzplzkthx> as well as the two incoming at 4:08 and 4:07
3410 2011-04-23 22:43:13 <netxshare> how much for?
3411 2011-04-23 22:43:20 <lulzplzkthx> small. .10, .10, and .05
3412 2011-04-23 22:43:27 <lulzplzkthx> two were referall bonuses, one was a bet xD
3413 2011-04-23 22:43:46 * lulzplzkthx bets with pennies when he's bored.
3414 2011-04-23 22:43:58 <ArtForz> do they show up on bitcoincharts?
3415 2011-04-23 22:44:09 <lulzplzkthx> the betting service hasn't recognized them.
3416 2011-04-23 22:44:11 <lulzplzkthx> let me check charts
3417 2011-04-23 22:44:17 <lulzplzkthx> hasn't recognized it*
3418 2011-04-23 22:44:27 <lulzplzkthx> i'm not really sure how to check the charts, what about monitor?
3419 2011-04-23 22:44:29 <netxshare> there is a bitting service that does not checking for confirmed
3420 2011-04-23 22:44:30 <roconnor> in OP_CHECKSIG is the subScript is generated from the concatination of the outputScript and the intputScript?
3421 2011-04-23 22:44:33 <netxshare> checking/check
3422 2011-04-23 22:44:37 <lulzplzkthx> netxshare: i know.
3423 2011-04-23 22:44:42 <lulzplzkthx> i'm not using that one :P
3424 2011-04-23 22:44:45 <lulzplzkthx> i was testing a new one.
3425 2011-04-23 22:44:50 <netxshare> is that not a risk on their part?
3426 2011-04-23 22:44:51 <ArtForz> http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/, just ctrl-f for their hashes
3427 2011-04-23 22:44:57 <lulzplzkthx> it is netxshare
3428 2011-04-23 22:45:03 <[Tycho]> 1.8 ! What they are doing with bitcoin... :(
3429 2011-04-23 22:45:17 <netxshare> making money is my guess
3430 2011-04-23 22:45:17 <lulzplzkthx> ArtForz:can I ctrl+f my address?
3431 2011-04-23 22:45:23 <netxshare> you need the hash
3432 2011-04-23 22:45:29 <netxshare> for the trasaction
3433 2011-04-23 22:45:30 <lulzplzkthx> how do i get the hash :S
3434 2011-04-23 22:45:36 <lulzplzkthx> from the gui.
3435 2011-04-23 22:45:44 <lulzplzkthx> or bitcoind, idc
3436 2011-04-23 22:46:07 <netxshare> what is your address
3437 2011-04-23 22:46:31 <ArtForz> if you run with -debug, dblclick tx in gui, otherwise... debug.log
3438 2011-04-23 22:46:35 <lulzplzkthx> i should've received two to 14aVjkLnKwjrZ8cGZwKsu3aXGg7EVBMXhr
3439 2011-04-23 22:46:45 <lulzplzkthx> and i see them both on the thing
3440 2011-04-23 22:46:58 <lulzplzkthx> .10 btc to 14aVjkLnKwjrZ8cGZwKsu3aXGg7EVBMXhr, twice.
3441 2011-04-23 22:47:07 <ArtForz> I c it
3442 2011-04-23 22:47:15 <ArtForz> chain of unconfirmed tx
3443 2011-04-23 22:47:19 <lulzplzkthx> So what does that mean, since it's on the chart?
3444 2011-04-23 22:47:44 <ArtForz> it means it's waiting to get into a block ,but looks rather spammish so it'll take a bit
3445 2011-04-23 22:47:44 <lulzplzkthx> Wait, so it was sent with unconfirmed money, thus mine is unconfirmed?
3446 2011-04-23 22:48:05 <lulzplzkthx> How about the one I'm sending, should i check debug.log for the tx id?
3447 2011-04-23 22:48:07 <lulzplzkthx> hash*
3448 2011-04-23 22:48:09 <netxshare> if it was in your balance
3449 2011-04-23 22:48:12 <netxshare> it was comfirmed
3450 2011-04-23 22:48:15 <lulzplzkthx> it isn't netxshare
3451 2011-04-23 22:48:56 <netxshare> http://blockexplorer.com/address/14aVjkLnKwjrZ8cGZwKsu3aXGg7EVBMXhr
3452 2011-04-23 22:48:59 <netxshare> err
3453 2011-04-23 22:49:30 <ArtForz> both tx to 14aVjkLnKwjrZ8cGZwKsu3aXGg7EVBMXhr depend on tx 163bd25aee9385a2fce42f352e3685a7024563341df28066643bf8e2e8c1e5db depends on tx 54db1f6d0af534edd957a469565a041f9a81fe4d2cc62cf54be9c2fc17ea71b4
3454 2011-04-23 22:49:43 <ArtForz> so those 2 have to get into blocks first
3455 2011-04-23 22:50:01 <lulzplzkthx> hmm, okay.
3456 2011-04-23 22:50:08 <ArtForz> and the input to that one just made it into the last block
3457 2011-04-23 22:50:18 <ArtForz> so they should get in in 4-5 blocks
3458 2011-04-23 22:51:21 <netxshare> still has taken quite some time
3459 2011-04-23 22:51:41 <netxshare> what service were you using?
3460 2011-04-23 22:52:03 <ArtForz> bitcoincharts tx list + ctrl-f ;)
3461 2011-04-23 22:52:31 <lulzplzkthx> kk, thanks.
3462 2011-04-23 22:52:48 <lulzplzkthx> I think the whole issue with transaction times might be the bigest issue Bitcoin faces.
3463 2011-04-23 22:52:56 <lulzplzkthx> It's what scared my dad from it.
3464 2011-04-23 22:53:21 <ArtForz> well, in tis case it's mostly the fault of whoever sent those
3465 2011-04-23 22:53:25 <netxshare> I am trying to remember how long a bank wire transfer takes
3466 2011-04-23 22:53:28 bubuqu has joined
3467 2011-04-23 22:53:37 <netxshare> it leaves your account right away
3468 2011-04-23 22:53:48 <netxshare> but I dunno if the person gets it right away
3469 2011-04-23 22:53:53 <ArtForz> chain of 0/unconf tx depending on each other with no fees = very slow to get into blocks, because it looks exactly like tx spam
3470 2011-04-23 22:53:57 <lulzplzkthx> Still, a credit card is right away.
3471 2011-04-23 22:54:01 <netxshare> yeah
3472 2011-04-23 22:54:05 <ArtForz> no it isn't
3473 2011-04-23 22:54:07 Warz has joined
3474 2011-04-23 22:54:11 <bubuqu> I just started running bitcoin and turned on generate coins but it just says "not connected"
3475 2011-04-23 22:54:21 dust1 has joined
3476 2011-04-23 22:54:23 <netxshare> depending on the bank you use
3477 2011-04-23 22:54:24 <lulzplzkthx> ArtForz: the actual transaction might not be right away, but the person is promised it by the provider right away
3478 2011-04-23 22:54:28 <netxshare> it will show up right away
3479 2011-04-23 22:54:39 <ArtForz> and might be reversed up to 90 days
3480 2011-04-23 22:54:42 <lulzplzkthx> as in, mastercard.
3481 2011-04-23 22:54:42 <netxshare> yeah
3482 2011-04-23 22:54:43 <netxshare> lol
3483 2011-04-23 22:54:54 <lulzplzkthx> lol, k
3484 2011-04-23 22:55:19 <ArtForz> oi
3485 2011-04-23 22:55:20 <lulzplzkthx> idrk, i'm 15, so i don't honestly know how credit cards work and whatnot. i just tried to explain bitcoin to him, and that was his main annoyance.
3486 2011-04-23 22:55:22 <netxshare> I can see a lot of people using bitcoins
3487 2011-04-23 22:55:26 <ArtForz> $2 in sight
3488 2011-04-23 22:55:27 AmpEater has joined
3489 2011-04-23 22:55:28 <netxshare> just because of no chargebacks
3490 2011-04-23 22:55:34 <lulzplzkthx> eh ArtForz ?
3491 2011-04-23 22:55:42 <lulzplzkthx> true netxshare
3492 2011-04-23 22:55:43 <ArtForz> ;;bc,mtgox
3493 2011-04-23 22:55:43 <retinal> 1.9 already
3494 2011-04-23 22:55:44 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.9499,"low":1.3202,"vol":61045,"buy":1.9005,"sell":1.9499,"last":1.9}}
3495 2011-04-23 22:55:46 <retinal> oh dear
3496 2011-04-23 22:55:55 <lulzplzkthx> wtf.
3497 2011-04-23 22:55:59 <netxshare> and I said it would hit $2 in at least a month
3498 2011-04-23 22:56:00 <AmpEater> holy cow turds
3499 2011-04-23 22:56:03 <tcoppi> very close
3500 2011-04-23 22:56:13 <AmpEater> I was predicting 6 hours about....6 hours ago bitches
3501 2011-04-23 22:56:16 <AmpEater> LOLOL
3502 2011-04-23 22:56:29 bubuqu has quit (Client Quit)
3503 2011-04-23 22:56:34 <netxshare> is there someone buying at high rates?
3504 2011-04-23 22:56:36 <ArtForz> and a market bid for 5k @ 1.90
3505 2011-04-23 22:56:43 <netxshare> or just people buying
3506 2011-04-23 22:56:52 <ArtForz> my guess is newcomers buying
3507 2011-04-23 22:57:06 <netxshare> what are they using them for I wonder
3508 2011-04-23 22:57:08 <retinal> all the better for us
3509 2011-04-23 22:57:09 <Cusipzzz> wow, didn't expect this much newcomer action til monday/tues...long weekend and all
3510 2011-04-23 22:57:11 <netxshare> I mean 5k btc
3511 2011-04-23 22:57:13 <freezbie> or scripts....
3512 2011-04-23 22:57:30 <ArtForz> my random guess, high risk investment
3513 2011-04-23 22:57:41 <netxshare> that's all I can see
3514 2011-04-23 22:57:49 <netxshare> there is not to much you can use them for yet
3515 2011-04-23 22:58:04 <johnlockwood> is Wire the best way to add funds to Mt Gox?
3516 2011-04-23 22:58:08 kermit has joined
3517 2011-04-23 22:58:13 <dirtyfilthy> and i thought 1.4 was too good to be true
3518 2011-04-23 22:58:16 <ArtForz> for larger amounts - yes
3519 2011-04-23 22:58:29 <johnlockwood> what is larget amounts?
3520 2011-04-23 22:58:41 <johnlockwood> larger
3521 2011-04-23 22:58:54 <ArtForz> dunno, when the $20 in ach fees is less than the 2% or so LR takes?
3522 2011-04-23 22:59:02 <ArtForz> so... about a grand?
3523 2011-04-23 23:00:20 <netxshare> http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworder.php?id=1283
3524 2011-04-23 23:02:59 <chmod755> ArtForz: LR takes between $0.01 and $2.99
3525 2011-04-23 23:03:05 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3526 2011-04-23 23:03:17 <ArtForz> yep
3527 2011-04-23 23:04:21 <ArtForz> for sending LR$ to mtgox, you only lose LRs $2.99 max
3528 2011-04-23 23:04:39 gruez_ has joined
3529 2011-04-23 23:04:41 <johnlockwood> LR?
3530 2011-04-23 23:04:46 <ArtForz> Liberty Reserve
3531 2011-04-23 23:04:49 <AmpEater> ;;bc,statsa
3532 2011-04-23 23:04:49 <gribble> Error: "bc,statsa" is not a valid command.
3533 2011-04-23 23:04:52 <AmpEater> ;;bc,stats
3534 2011-04-23 23:04:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 119831 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 1128 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 3 hours, 23 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 101421.62986752
3535 2011-04-23 23:07:03 gruez has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3536 2011-04-23 23:07:23 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
3537 2011-04-23 23:08:24 llama has joined
3538 2011-04-23 23:09:02 prax has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3539 2011-04-23 23:09:06 prax_ has joined
3540 2011-04-23 23:09:31 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3541 2011-04-23 23:09:52 <gjs278> wtf 1.9
3542 2011-04-23 23:10:29 <BlueMatt> gjs278: ...yea
3543 2011-04-23 23:10:43 <netxshare> has anyone used https://bitcoinmarket.com/
3544 2011-04-23 23:10:48 <gjs278> this rollercoaster is getting a little too high
3545 2011-04-23 23:11:14 <gjs278> but hey
3546 2011-04-23 23:11:14 <netxshare> crap
3547 2011-04-23 23:11:19 <gjs278> I guess that guy who wanted to buy 200k at $2
3548 2011-04-23 23:11:23 <gjs278> is about to get his wish
3549 2011-04-23 23:11:40 <netxshare> my keyboard is going to die for sure
3550 2011-04-23 23:11:45 <netxshare> stupid wireless
3551 2011-04-23 23:12:13 <netxshare> I need to move my charger so this does not happen again
3552 2011-04-23 23:12:41 <AmpEater> anybody who is being realistic about a big investment knows the price is going to go up
3553 2011-04-23 23:12:42 <freezbie> he is trading with himself... it is most likely a script...
3554 2011-04-23 23:12:44 <luke-jr> netxshare: yes
3555 2011-04-23 23:13:00 <freezbie> look at the volume
3556 2011-04-23 23:13:26 <netxshare> good point freezbie
3557 2011-04-23 23:13:28 <freezbie> 1 trade... with 5 cent diff? 2 btc with 10 cent diff? wtf
3558 2011-04-23 23:13:41 <netxshare> a script that trades with multi wallets
3559 2011-04-23 23:13:43 <ArtForz> thats just the bots
3560 2011-04-23 23:13:44 <freezbie> this wont last
3561 2011-04-23 23:13:47 <netxshare> to drive the market value up
3562 2011-04-23 23:13:52 <AmpEater> one dude with a small amount of cash would have been cleaned out by sellers way before $2
3563 2011-04-23 23:14:00 <netxshare> the dump as much as you can when it's a price you like
3564 2011-04-23 23:14:07 <freezbie> my guess is drop to 1.33 tomorrow
3565 2011-04-23 23:14:21 <freezbie> that is where support is
3566 2011-04-23 23:14:33 <freezbie> (real support)
3567 2011-04-23 23:14:41 <ArtForz> well, my guess is still 1.35 in 6 days
3568 2011-04-23 23:15:12 <freezbie> but this system would be easy for a pro control... and now that wall street is aware.... the flood gates are open.
3569 2011-04-23 23:15:22 Kiba has joined
3570 2011-04-23 23:15:42 <freezbie> not real... seen this many times on stock market before.
3571 2011-04-23 23:16:23 <ArtForz> well, somewhat real
3572 2011-04-23 23:16:30 <freezbie> i wish i could see who was actually making the trades...
3573 2011-04-23 23:16:40 <freezbie> probably all the same system.
3574 2011-04-23 23:16:53 <ArtForz> well, I sold 5k at 1.50, not complaining
3575 2011-04-23 23:17:14 <freezbie> with this approach, it could bring the price to $10
3576 2011-04-23 23:17:22 <freezbie> very quickly
3577 2011-04-23 23:17:26 <ArtForz> an no one else would be buying
3578 2011-04-23 23:17:32 <freezbie> and drop it just as fast.
3579 2011-04-23 23:17:35 <ArtForz> yep
3580 2011-04-23 23:17:45 <gjs278> 125 coins just got dumped at 1.90 for me
3581 2011-04-23 23:18:04 <gjs278> that pays for my card, that was the goal all along
3582 2011-04-23 23:18:35 <tcoppi> nice :)
3583 2011-04-23 23:18:40 DuoSRX has joined
3584 2011-04-23 23:19:08 <ArtForz> cmon, 2 more blocks
3585 2011-04-23 23:19:28 * Kiba is stuned
3586 2011-04-23 23:19:30 noagendamarket has joined
3587 2011-04-23 23:19:32 <[Tycho]> cmon, 2 more blocks
3588 2011-04-23 23:19:50 <ArtForz> stuned? is that like half stoned, half stunned?
3589 2011-04-23 23:19:53 <gjs278> I'm also waiting for 2 more blocks
3590 2011-04-23 23:19:55 <AmpEater> lol
3591 2011-04-23 23:20:05 <AmpEater> what, pool payout or something?
3592 2011-04-23 23:20:17 <ArtForz> nah, transfers to mtgox, duh ;)
3593 2011-04-23 23:20:18 <[Tycho]> confirmation
3594 2011-04-23 23:20:31 <[Tycho]> transfers to btcex
3595 2011-04-23 23:20:37 <gjs278> coincard for me
3596 2011-04-23 23:21:10 <[Tycho]> btcex is still lagging behind, at 1.2-1.3
3597 2011-04-23 23:21:24 <Kiba> well
3598 2011-04-23 23:21:26 <ArtForz> makes sense
3599 2011-04-23 23:21:30 <freezbie> The pattern is desperately random...look at the market depth.
3600 2011-04-23 23:21:32 <Kiba> bitcoin mining capacity is going to expand like crazy
3601 2011-04-23 23:21:41 <ArtForz> yep
3602 2011-04-23 23:21:49 <ArtForz> well, not by that much
3603 2011-04-23 23:21:53 <Kiba> well
3604 2011-04-23 23:22:01 skyewm has joined
3605 2011-04-23 23:22:06 <AmpEater> depends on how long the spike lasts
3606 2011-04-23 23:22:14 <ArtForz> I doubt this spike will hold for more than a day
3607 2011-04-23 23:22:15 <Kiba> there's going to be ton of excess capacity for a GPU distributed computing market
3608 2011-04-23 23:22:17 <[Tycho]> ...and BTC will become a currency for trading games :)
3609 2011-04-23 23:22:21 <mrb_> ArtForz: plz leave some of the 5k bid at 1.9 for me
3610 2011-04-23 23:22:22 <gjs278> do your part and tell everyone that "you won't make up the price of your card" just like everyone else was doing in feb and march
3611 2011-04-23 23:22:27 <mrb_> :)
3612 2011-04-23 23:22:28 <gjs278> it got me a lot more coins in the end
3613 2011-04-23 23:22:36 Marcel has left ()
3614 2011-04-23 23:22:49 <jrabbit> who keeps buying
3615 2011-04-23 23:22:54 <gjs278> a hero
3616 2011-04-23 23:22:56 <gjs278> that's who
3617 2011-04-23 23:23:23 <ArtForz> yeah, miners should build that guy a beer or something ;)
3618 2011-04-23 23:23:53 <mrb_> and sell the beer $99/pint to him :)
3619 2011-04-23 23:23:58 <gjs278> it's Satoshi, he's getting all of his coins back
3620 2011-04-23 23:24:05 <ArtForz> hahaha
3621 2011-04-23 23:24:09 <Kiba> lol
3622 2011-04-23 23:24:46 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
3623 2011-04-23 23:24:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 119833 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 1126 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 3 hours, 24 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 101156.47840218
3624 2011-04-23 23:24:55 <gjs278> on more block
3625 2011-04-23 23:25:45 freezbie has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3626 2011-04-23 23:25:57 amazing123 has joined
3627 2011-04-23 23:25:58 <Kiba> imagine having to pay bitcoin loan on that kind of rise in price
3628 2011-04-23 23:26:09 <[Tycho]> How many confirmations do mtgox requires ?
3629 2011-04-23 23:26:14 <ArtForz> 6
3630 2011-04-23 23:26:15 <amazing123> WTF ?
3631 2011-04-23 23:26:21 <amazing123> wtf.....
3632 2011-04-23 23:26:25 <gjs278> amazing join the dumping party
3633 2011-04-23 23:26:26 <amazing123> wtf people?
3634 2011-04-23 23:26:35 <Kiba> wtf what?
3635 2011-04-23 23:26:43 <amazing123> are they selling crack and duke nukem forever only-for-btc?
3636 2011-04-23 23:26:53 <amazing123> 2.00 usd/btc ftw
3637 2011-04-23 23:27:02 <ArtForz> wtf ftw
3638 2011-04-23 23:27:13 <BlueMatt> 5k bids @ 1.9
3639 2011-04-23 23:27:17 <BlueMatt> dam
3640 2011-04-23 23:27:23 <ArtForz> one bid really
3641 2011-04-23 23:27:24 <gjs278> bluematt join the dumping party
3642 2011-04-23 23:27:50 slueth has joined
3643 2011-04-23 23:28:00 <slueth> wow bitcoin prices are almost 2 dollars..
3644 2011-04-23 23:28:29 <amazing123> Dollar
3645 2011-04-23 23:28:32 <amazing123> dollar dollar
3646 2011-04-23 23:28:37 <amazing123> dollar is all I neeed
3647 2011-04-23 23:28:38 <netxshare> bill
3648 2011-04-23 23:28:39 <netxshare> yall
3649 2011-04-23 23:28:43 * amazing123 hey hey
3650 2011-04-23 23:28:49 <amazing123> a dollar dollar
3651 2011-04-23 23:28:52 <amazing123> dollar is all I need
3652 2011-04-23 23:29:00 <slueth> Is that a song?
3653 2011-04-23 23:29:06 <slueth> I think I heard it on the bus
3654 2011-04-23 23:29:10 * amazing123 hey hey
3655 2011-04-23 23:29:46 <BlueMatt> slueth: very sluethy there
3656 2011-04-23 23:29:56 <amazing123> I had a job but I dont have a job no more
3657 2011-04-23 23:29:57 gruez_ is now known as gruez
3658 2011-04-23 23:30:32 <netxshare> bleh
3659 2011-04-23 23:30:36 * netxshare installs photshop
3660 2011-04-23 23:31:10 vorbs has joined
3661 2011-04-23 23:32:43 eternal1 has joined
3662 2011-04-23 23:32:51 <mrb_> ArtForz: do you mind telling whether you will gobble up this whole 1.9 bid or not? I want to know if I should hang here monitoring my sell, or if I can go grocery shopping :)
3663 2011-04-23 23:33:02 <amazing123> slueth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-V8EzyNtk0
3664 2011-04-23 23:33:26 <ArtForz> nah, only selling the 250 I got left in my "mined btc to sell" pile
3665 2011-04-23 23:33:43 <amazing123> Dollar
3666 2011-04-23 23:33:48 <amazing123> dollar dollar
3667 2011-04-23 23:33:51 <amazing123> dollar is all I need
3668 2011-04-23 23:33:54 * amazing123 hey hey
3669 2011-04-23 23:34:04 <amazing123> I had a job but the boss man let me go,
3670 2011-04-23 23:34:08 * amazing123 he said
3671 2011-04-23 23:34:20 <amazing123> I'm sorry but I won't be needing your help no more
3672 2011-04-23 23:34:22 <slueth> thanks amazing123
3673 2011-04-23 23:34:23 <netxshare> you save some btc then
3674 2011-04-23 23:34:26 <mrb_> somehow I think this is misinformation. very smart ArtForz....
3675 2011-04-23 23:34:28 <amazing123> I said
3676 2011-04-23 23:34:29 <mrb_> hehe
3677 2011-04-23 23:34:47 <amazing123> please da2ce7 I need this bitcoins more then you can thinl
3678 2011-04-23 23:34:52 * mrb_ is gone grocery shopping
3679 2011-04-23 23:34:56 <amazing123> But he gave me my last paycheck and he sent me on out the door
3680 2011-04-23 23:35:22 <jrabbit> lol watch this be the mystery miner speculating his own earnings
3681 2011-04-23 23:35:39 <amazing123> I had some good old buddy his names is his name is radeon and ati
3682 2011-04-23 23:35:41 <ArtForz> kinda hard, as his 50kbtc are still sitting in the same address ;)
3683 2011-04-23 23:35:43 * amazing123 hey hey
3684 2011-04-23 23:35:49 <amazing123> And for my good old buddy i spent my last dime
3685 2011-04-23 23:35:51 * amazing123 hey hey
3686 2011-04-23 23:36:28 <amazing123> And if I share with you my story would you share your dollar with me
3687 2011-04-23 23:36:34 <amazing123> ArtForz: come on share your dollar with me
3688 2011-04-23 23:36:40 wolfspraul has joined
3689 2011-04-23 23:37:45 Tritonio has joined
3690 2011-04-23 23:38:22 <netxshare> is it normal for people to ask for money?
3691 2011-04-23 23:39:07 <netxshare> my god
3692 2011-04-23 23:39:10 <slueth> ?
3693 2011-04-23 23:39:17 <netxshare> pandora wants so many scripts to run
3694 2011-04-23 23:39:19 <ArtForz> it's full of stars
3695 2011-04-23 23:39:37 <netxshare> I thought I would give it another shot
3696 2011-04-23 23:39:40 <netxshare> shoot
3697 2011-04-23 23:39:45 <netxshare> it's a pile of crap
3698 2011-04-23 23:39:51 <netxshare> I dislike like pandora
3699 2011-04-23 23:40:03 <slueth> wtf does that mean
3700 2011-04-23 23:40:21 <slueth> I like pandora :)
3701 2011-04-23 23:40:31 <grbgout> I like pandora through pianobar.
3702 2011-04-23 23:40:35 <netxshare> I like to listen to music I want to hear
3703 2011-04-23 23:40:40 <slueth> Never heard of pianobar.
3704 2011-04-23 23:40:40 <netxshare> like
3705 2011-04-23 23:40:47 <Tritonio> Try jango
3706 2011-04-23 23:40:47 <grbgout> slueth: cli interface to pandora.
3707 2011-04-23 23:40:48 <netxshare> the songs I want to listen to
3708 2011-04-23 23:40:52 <netxshare> hell
3709 2011-04-23 23:40:59 <netxshare> they don't even have inflames on pandora
3710 2011-04-23 23:41:02 Xial has joined
3711 2011-04-23 23:41:17 <slueth> grbgout: that is awesome lol!
3712 2011-04-23 23:41:49 <grbgout> slueth: yup, no commercials, nothin' but good tunes.
3713 2011-04-23 23:42:04 <johnlockwood> tcatm: it's funny all but one the duplicate trades involve the amount 10
3714 2011-04-23 23:42:06 <slueth> No ascii ads? lol
3715 2011-04-23 23:42:40 <netxshare> ill have to check pianobar out
3716 2011-04-23 23:42:53 <netxshare> do you need access to their paid service?
3717 2011-04-23 23:43:16 <slueth> No. cus he said no ads
3718 2011-04-23 23:43:21 <slueth> implying he was using free
3719 2011-04-23 23:43:34 <slueth> Right?
3720 2011-04-23 23:44:29 <netxshare> oh, did not see that part
3721 2011-04-23 23:44:34 <netxshare> just saw cli interface
3722 2011-04-23 23:44:41 <grbgout> There's a paid service? :)
3723 2011-04-23 23:44:44 <netxshare> yeah
3724 2011-04-23 23:44:47 <netxshare> no ads
3725 2011-04-23 23:44:50 * grbgout shrugs
3726 2011-04-23 23:44:50 <netxshare> and more play time
3727 2011-04-23 23:44:56 <johnlockwood> can a paxum account be funded with a credit/debit card?
3728 2011-04-23 23:44:58 <netxshare> and more thumbs down
3729 2011-04-23 23:45:10 <grbgout> Oh, there's a limit on thumbs down?
3730 2011-04-23 23:45:13 <netxshare> yeah
3731 2011-04-23 23:45:17 * grbgout shrugs
3732 2011-04-23 23:45:23 <netxshare> you can only do so many an hour or day
3733 2011-04-23 23:45:25 <netxshare> something like that
3734 2011-04-23 23:45:26 <grbgout> sounds like your client sucks ^_^
3735 2011-04-23 23:45:34 <netxshare> sounds like pandora.com
3736 2011-04-23 23:45:40 <netxshare> just using their flash app
3737 2011-04-23 23:45:56 <grbgout> I think the thumbs down aspect is also found in pianobar, actually. I just barely have to thumbs thing down.
3738 2011-04-23 23:46:10 <netxshare> you must like a lot of music
3739 2011-04-23 23:46:28 <netxshare> I always get crappy bands that sound like the band I want to listen to
3740 2011-04-23 23:47:45 sethsethseth has joined
3741 2011-04-23 23:47:50 slueth has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3742 2011-04-23 23:47:59 slueth has joined
3743 2011-04-23 23:49:05 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3744 2011-04-23 23:49:25 kermit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3745 2011-04-23 23:50:13 <Xial> I've a question about the Spesmilo client: How would I go about configuring it to connect to one of the many pools available, since mining locally on my machine is very unproductive?
3746 2011-04-23 23:50:18 <grbgout> well, if I start hearing something I don't want to listen to, I just ask for the next song.
3747 2011-04-23 23:51:02 <netxshare> that's what tumbs down does
3748 2011-04-23 23:52:00 <ArtForz> ... and there goes the 1.90 bid
3749 2011-04-23 23:52:07 <Tritonio> Xial connecting to many pools won't make you more efficient. But I don't know what this client is so I might be talking nonsense.
3750 2011-04-23 23:52:48 <netxshare> it could come back
3751 2011-04-23 23:53:05 <Tritonio> @xial actually even one pool won't make you more productive.
3752 2011-04-23 23:53:10 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3753 2011-04-23 23:53:21 <vorbs> want to see it drop to 1.5 in an hour?
3754 2011-04-23 23:53:35 <Xial> Tritonio: I've not a very powerful machine. If I were to solo mine, it'd take way too long to complete a block (read: 4-5 months average).
3755 2011-04-23 23:53:41 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3756 2011-04-23 23:53:56 <netxshare> howa
3757 2011-04-23 23:53:59 <netxshare> whoa
3758 2011-04-23 23:54:04 <netxshare> what are you mining with?
3759 2011-04-23 23:54:08 <netxshare> what gpu do you have?
3760 2011-04-23 23:54:22 <luke-jr> Xial: CPU mining is worthless no matter how you do it
3761 2011-04-23 23:54:30 <luke-jr> Xial: Spesmilo is a client, not a miner
3762 2011-04-23 23:55:31 <amazing123> luke-jr: CPU mining can be worthwhile on certain ships
3763 2011-04-23 23:55:33 Guest22070 is now known as ForceMajeure
3764 2011-04-23 23:56:53 <vorbs> next stop 1.62
3765 2011-04-23 23:57:05 <Xial> Ok, so I'll scrub working on that box to get it to do anything. So, back to my other machine, where I get a happy 27000khash per hour:
3766 2011-04-23 23:57:32 <B0g4r7> Khph huh...
3767 2011-04-23 23:57:39 <B0g4r7> Is it a 486?
3768 2011-04-23 23:57:57 chmod755 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3769 2011-04-23 23:58:21 <Xial> Actually, mmh, forget it. Question's not even important.
3770 2011-04-23 23:58:23 <amazing123> why gavinandersen's git avatar looks like Lennin?
3771 2011-04-23 23:58:32 has joined
3772 2011-04-23 23:58:53 <amazing123> https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/66f4207463fc19e65675b67f75d494ee?s=140&d=https://d3nwyuy0nl342s.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fgravatars%2Fgravatar-140.png
3773 2011-04-23 23:58:56 <vorbs> congrats to all that sold 1.95... going to drop like a rock now!
3774 2011-04-23 23:59:26 Xial has left ()
3775 2011-04-23 23:59:43 <amazing123> vorbs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-V8EzyNtk0