1 2011-04-25 00:00:15 <sipa> hmm, ldconfig
2 2011-04-25 00:00:16 <sipa> ?
3 2011-04-25 00:00:52 knotwork has joined
4 2011-04-25 00:01:34 <Guest71697> it says
5 2011-04-25 00:01:34 <Guest71697> what do you want? you want me to run ldconfig?
6 2011-04-25 00:01:35 <Guest71697> ./i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: cannot find -lboost_system
7 2011-04-25 00:02:16 <JFK911> owned
8 2011-04-25 00:02:27 <Guest71697> ?
9 2011-04-25 00:02:40 <sipa> yes, try running ldconfig
10 2011-04-25 00:02:48 <Guest71697> i already ran ldconfig
11 2011-04-25 00:02:51 <sipa> ok
12 2011-04-25 00:02:51 <Guest71697> it just hangs out there
13 2011-04-25 00:02:54 <Guest71697> what do i need to do?
14 2011-04-25 00:03:11 <sipa> do you have a file libboost_system.so?
15 2011-04-25 00:03:43 <Guest71697> yes
16 2011-04-25 00:03:43 <Guest71697> dhcppc2:~/bitcoin # locate libboost_system.so
17 2011-04-25 00:04:13 <JFK911> if you just installed boost, locate won't find him.
18 2011-04-25 00:04:19 <JFK911> oh you got him.
19 2011-04-25 00:04:24 <Guest71697> it found it
20 2011-04-25 00:04:30 <JFK911> strange ^P in your pastes
21 2011-04-25 00:04:31 <Guest71697> i installed boost one day ago
22 2011-04-25 00:04:37 <jav_> ArtForz: did some clever way of fixing that db deadlock occure to you? .. for now I just tried to move the part where the key pool is topped up out of the atomic db operation.. a commit is linked on the bug tracker
23 2011-04-25 00:05:15 <Guest71697> sipa: any ideas?
24 2011-04-25 00:05:28 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
25 2011-04-25 00:05:50 <JFK911> Guest71697: ldconfig -v | grep boost
26 2011-04-25 00:05:53 <sipa> Guest71697: ldconfig completed successfully?
27 2011-04-25 00:05:55 <JFK911> he's shown?
28 2011-04-25 00:06:38 <Guest71697> ldconfig -v | grep boost
29 2011-04-25 00:06:40 <Guest71697> it gave..
30 2011-04-25 00:06:43 <JFK911> are there different boost versions (.so.1 etc) ?
31 2011-04-25 00:06:43 <Guest71697> lots of files..
32 2011-04-25 00:06:52 <Guest71697> libboost_system.so.1.39.0 -> libboost_system.so.1.39.0
33 2011-04-25 00:06:52 <daveparrish> Hello, I was wondering if someone could help me figure this out. I've compiled namecoin but others cannot run the binary because of the error: "program can't start because libgcc_s_dw2-1.dll is missing from your computer"
34 2011-04-25 00:07:02 <JFK911> aha so it is versioned
35 2011-04-25 00:07:06 <JFK911> i wonder if you got the wrong version?
36 2011-04-25 00:07:20 <JFK911> i personally dont know about boost or which one is correct
37 2011-04-25 00:07:24 <Guest71697> i dont know ? how i can fix it?
38 2011-04-25 00:07:51 <gjs278> I just try different versions until it compiles
39 2011-04-25 00:07:51 theorbtwo has joined
40 2011-04-25 00:07:52 <Guest71697> ill just try unisntalling all the boost packages i have
41 2011-04-25 00:07:53 <JFK911> not sure, i just ran the binary on linux i think
42 2011-04-25 00:07:54 <Guest71697> and install
43 2011-04-25 00:08:05 <Guest71697> the boost from the tarball
44 2011-04-25 00:08:06 <JFK911> im not sure what prerequisites it carried
45 2011-04-25 00:08:14 H4U has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
46 2011-04-25 00:09:08 <daveparrish> What is the build process for a release version of Bitcoin on Windows? My binary .exe ends up very large.
47 2011-04-25 00:09:33 <gjs278> my binary for linux ends up huge, I strip it afterwards
48 2011-04-25 00:09:37 <gjs278> not sure what you can do on windows
49 2011-04-25 00:09:49 <daveparrish> Who does the builds?
50 2011-04-25 00:09:56 jav_ is now known as jav_away
51 2011-04-25 00:09:59 jav_away has quit (Quit: leaving)
52 2011-04-25 00:12:19 <JFK911> you can strip on windoze
53 2011-04-25 00:12:41 <daveparrish> I don't know how, but that's probably what I need to do.
54 2011-04-25 00:13:45 <AAA_awright> ... Why can't we just use a DHT to store the block chain? Because of chance of catastrophic failure?
55 2011-04-25 00:14:22 <AAA_awright> That should probably be the default for non-miners, maybe
56 2011-04-25 00:14:29 <AAA_awright> wait hmm
57 2011-04-25 00:14:40 <AAA_awright> There's probably some way to secure it, I can imagine
58 2011-04-25 00:18:14 <phantomcircuit_> AAA_awright, because a DHT is not tolerant against attackers
59 2011-04-25 00:18:37 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
60 2011-04-25 00:22:00 <AAA_awright> And Bitcoin isn't?
61 2011-04-25 00:22:25 <AAA_awright> How much do we depend on the full chain for reading
62 2011-04-25 00:22:35 <edcba> phantomcircuit_: how not tolerant ?
63 2011-04-25 00:23:06 <edcba> you can choose level of redundancy/trust
64 2011-04-25 00:23:24 <phantomcircuit_> edcba, one person can create lots of nodes, indeed enough that they have 100% of the copies of a piece of the chain
65 2011-04-25 00:23:41 <edcba> so ?
66 2011-04-25 00:23:51 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
67 2011-04-25 00:24:10 <edcba> i don't see where is the problem
68 2011-04-25 00:24:56 <phantomcircuit_> uh seriously?
69 2011-04-25 00:25:27 <edcba> yes
70 2011-04-25 00:26:19 <edcba> ok maybe i start seeing it
71 2011-04-25 00:26:47 sethsethseth has joined
72 2011-04-25 00:26:54 <edcba> i wouldn't express it like that but i see how it could be a problem
73 2011-04-25 00:27:16 dust-1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
74 2011-04-25 00:27:27 <Guest71697> satoshi connects to this IRC?
75 2011-04-25 00:27:32 <edcba> no
76 2011-04-25 00:27:41 <Guest71697> where can satoshi be found?
77 2011-04-25 00:28:04 dust- has joined
78 2011-04-25 00:28:14 <edcba> if you want to communicate with him i think forum is the best way
79 2011-04-25 00:28:19 <edcba> never tried it though
80 2011-04-25 00:28:23 <Guest71697> edcba: ok
81 2011-04-25 00:28:53 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
82 2011-04-25 00:29:35 sethsethseth____ has joined
83 2011-04-25 00:30:23 <edcba> ok maybe there is a pb with dht
84 2011-04-25 00:31:12 * edcba needs some sleep
85 2011-04-25 00:32:03 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
86 2011-04-25 00:36:51 TheKid has joined
87 2011-04-25 00:36:51 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
88 2011-04-25 00:36:51 TheKid has joined
89 2011-04-25 00:37:59 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
90 2011-04-25 00:39:51 phantomcircuit_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
91 2011-04-25 00:40:13 NickelBot8 has joined
92 2011-04-25 00:40:35 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
93 2011-04-25 00:40:58 NickelBot8 is now known as NickelBot
94 2011-04-25 00:41:22 <Guest71697> it would be the same than install libboost-all-dev to install the .tar.gz that can be found on boost.org ?
95 2011-04-25 00:41:26 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
96 2011-04-25 00:41:46 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
97 2011-04-25 00:41:56 joepie91 has quit (laptop!~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl|Remote host closed the connection)
98 2011-04-25 00:42:07 <BurtyB> bitcoin mining is a great excuse for getting aircon in :)
99 2011-04-25 00:43:55 phantomcircuit_ has joined
100 2011-04-25 00:44:15 Xer has joined
101 2011-04-25 00:44:59 <Xer> so, has anyone found a workaround for poclbm eating cpu cycles when mining with 2+ ati cards?
102 2011-04-25 00:45:06 <Xer> in windows that is
103 2011-04-25 00:46:10 <gjs278> I just tried a bunch of different versions and eventually it faded away for me
104 2011-04-25 00:46:21 <Guest71697> what about perform mining from browsers using javascript¿?
105 2011-04-25 00:46:22 <gjs278> versions of my drivers that is
106 2011-04-25 00:47:04 <RenaKunisaki> lol Javascript mining
107 2011-04-25 00:47:33 taco_the_paco has joined
108 2011-04-25 00:48:18 <Guest71697> im having this problem
109 2011-04-25 00:48:24 <Guest71697> when compiling bitcoin
110 2011-04-25 00:48:24 <Guest71697> i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: cannot find -lboost_system
111 2011-04-25 00:48:27 <Guest71697> anyone can help?
112 2011-04-25 00:49:27 <Guest71697> ArtForz ?
113 2011-04-25 00:54:41 <daveparrish> Guest71697: I'm guessing you have downloaded the boost libraries?
114 2011-04-25 00:55:06 knotwork has joined
115 2011-04-25 00:56:11 <Guest71697> daveparrish: yes i also installed them
116 2011-04-25 00:57:46 dust- has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
117 2011-04-25 00:57:47 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
118 2011-04-25 00:58:29 dust- has joined
119 2011-04-25 00:59:05 taco_the_paco has joined
120 2011-04-25 01:00:21 Teslah has joined
121 2011-04-25 01:02:44 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
122 2011-04-25 01:02:45 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.89,"low":1.6,"vol":17872,"buy":1.6101,"sell":1.639,"last":1.6011}}
123 2011-04-25 01:04:18 knotwork_ has joined
124 2011-04-25 01:04:27 <Guest71697> can someone help me please
125 2011-04-25 01:05:14 skyewm has joined
126 2011-04-25 01:05:28 NickelBot8 has joined
127 2011-04-25 01:05:43 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
128 2011-04-25 01:06:01 NickelBot8 is now known as NickelBot
129 2011-04-25 01:06:15 DukeOfURL has joined
130 2011-04-25 01:06:31 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
131 2011-04-25 01:06:53 DukeOfURL has quit (Client Quit)
132 2011-04-25 01:08:07 citiz3n has quit ()
133 2011-04-25 01:11:21 dust- has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
134 2011-04-25 01:11:38 amiller has joined
135 2011-04-25 01:12:49 Guest71697 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
136 2011-04-25 01:14:47 Anon__ has joined
137 2011-04-25 01:14:52 <Anon__> Sup chate
138 2011-04-25 01:15:32 <Anon__> How do you get started with CoinMining?
139 2011-04-25 01:15:45 <Anon__> I got a super computer that i don't really use it except browsing the internet
140 2011-04-25 01:15:57 <Anon__> Radeon HD 5000+
141 2011-04-25 01:18:06 <gjs278> download poclbm gui
142 2011-04-25 01:18:21 <gjs278> find a pool and join it. your choices are either deepbit.net or mining.bitcoin.cz
143 2011-04-25 01:18:28 <gjs278> then you put in the pool information
144 2011-04-25 01:18:30 xxxxxxx is now known as xxxxxxx`brb
145 2011-04-25 01:18:38 <gjs278> you complete shares, they give you coins on your account
146 2011-04-25 01:18:53 <gjs278> you give your bitcoin address to the pools, they send you your coins when you hit your limit
147 2011-04-25 01:19:22 <Anon__> is being apart of a pool optional?
148 2011-04-25 01:19:45 <daveparrish> Anon__: Also #bitcoin-mining might be a more helpful channel.
149 2011-04-25 01:19:50 <gjs278> yes but very very very recommend
150 2011-04-25 01:19:51 <gjs278> ed
151 2011-04-25 01:19:59 <Anon__> thats what i hear
152 2011-04-25 01:20:07 <Anon__> how do i change to the mining chat?
153 2011-04-25 01:20:15 <gjs278> /join #bitcoin-mining
154 2011-04-25 01:20:30 <johnlockwood> tcatm: I just asked him about it
155 2011-04-25 01:21:38 ForceMajeure_ has joined
156 2011-04-25 01:22:38 <johnlockwood> he had the tid on another feed and fixed getTrades to have it too
157 2011-04-25 01:23:54 ForceMajeure has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
158 2011-04-25 01:24:12 ForceMajeure has joined
159 2011-04-25 01:25:13 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
160 2011-04-25 01:25:51 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
161 2011-04-25 01:26:18 ForceMajeure_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
162 2011-04-25 01:27:36 prograle has joined
163 2011-04-25 01:27:54 <prograle> when i try to compile bitcoin it says
164 2011-04-25 01:27:54 <prograle> i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: cannot find -lboost_system
165 2011-04-25 01:27:56 <prograle> sorry
166 2011-04-25 01:27:57 <prograle> it says
167 2011-04-25 01:28:04 <prograle> i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: cannot find -ldb_cxx
168 2011-04-25 01:28:07 <prograle> how can i fix it?
169 2011-04-25 01:29:56 <sipa> install bdb with c++ libraries
170 2011-04-25 01:30:28 <gjs278> if it's still not found after that, you have to set the prefix for your db version
171 2011-04-25 01:30:34 <gjs278> worry about that later if installing it doesn't work
172 2011-04-25 01:31:17 xxxxxxx`brb is now known as xxxxxxx
173 2011-04-25 01:32:27 <prograle> i installed db-4.7.25
174 2011-04-25 01:32:27 <prograle> i already did it
175 2011-04-25 01:33:26 <prograle> its located in /usr/local/BerkeleyDB.4.7/lib/libdb_cxx.so
176 2011-04-25 01:33:36 <prograle> so basically what i need to do is to find some way to
177 2011-04-25 01:33:53 <prograle> change this line -l db_cxx \
178 2011-04-25 01:34:01 <prograle> so that it includes the lib from that path
179 2011-04-25 01:34:09 <prograle> and not from /usr/lib
180 2011-04-25 01:36:22 <sipa> -L/usr/local/BerkeleyDB.4.7/lib
181 2011-04-25 01:36:27 <sipa> on g++ the command line
182 2011-04-25 01:36:27 <prograle> CXXFLAGS="-L/usr/local/BerkeleyDB.4.7/lib/" should work?
183 2011-04-25 01:37:20 <phantomcircuit_> prograle, env LIBRARY_PATH="/usr/local/BerkeleyDB.4.7/lib" make -f makefile.unix
184 2011-04-25 01:38:38 citiz3n has joined
185 2011-04-25 01:38:58 <prograle> can i place LIBRARY_PATH="/usr/local/BerkeleyDB.4.7/lib" inside makefile.unix directly ?
186 2011-04-25 01:39:45 <prograle> nevermind
187 2011-04-25 01:39:45 <prograle> i compiled bitcoin!
188 2011-04-25 01:39:45 <prograle> thanks
189 2011-04-25 01:39:45 <prograle> it worked!
190 2011-04-25 01:39:46 <prograle> yea!
191 2011-04-25 01:39:46 <prograle> hehe
192 2011-04-25 01:39:55 <prograle> it taked me 8 hrs!
193 2011-04-25 01:40:06 <prograle> to fix all the compiling problems
194 2011-04-25 01:40:07 <prograle> :P
195 2011-04-25 01:40:41 Anon__ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
196 2011-04-25 01:44:36 <phantomcircuit_> prograle, 8 hours? what distro?
197 2011-04-25 01:45:32 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
198 2011-04-25 01:46:33 phantomcircuit_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
199 2011-04-25 01:46:42 phantomcircuit_ has joined
200 2011-04-25 01:48:48 <gjs278> the distro isn't as important as how broken these makefiles are
201 2011-04-25 01:49:09 xlogik_ has joined
202 2011-04-25 01:49:17 <gjs278> and how competent the user is of course
203 2011-04-25 01:51:28 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
204 2011-04-25 01:52:33 <phantomcircuit_> gjs278, the modifications necessary on gentoo and ubuntu are minimal consisting of a single line
205 2011-04-25 01:52:45 <gjs278> that's where point 2 comes into place
206 2011-04-25 01:52:48 jaromil has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
207 2011-04-25 01:53:00 <gjs278> also you should never have to modify a makefile
208 2011-04-25 01:53:21 WakiMiko has joined
209 2011-04-25 01:53:45 <phantomcircuit_> gjs278, the main problem is that there is no way to automatically detect the location of the bdb headers/libraries
210 2011-04-25 01:53:59 <phantomcircuit_> autotools has a list of likely locations ffs
211 2011-04-25 01:54:37 <gjs278> at the very least something should be tacked into build-unix.txt
212 2011-04-25 01:54:44 <gjs278> telling the user any changes they may have to make
213 2011-04-25 01:58:30 <prograle> open suse 11.1
214 2011-04-25 01:58:50 <prograle> [21:31] <phantomcircuit_> prograle, 8 hours? what distro? <--- open suse 11.1
215 2011-04-25 01:58:56 <prograle> on centos 5.5 i wasnt able to even compile it
216 2011-04-25 01:59:08 <prograle> because it was asking me to upgrade the whole glibc from 2.3 to 2.9
217 2011-04-25 01:59:11 <prograle> too much
218 2011-04-25 01:59:12 <prograle> :P
219 2011-04-25 01:59:21 DukeOfURL has joined
220 2011-04-25 01:59:34 <prograle> i have a virtual machine wirh the developement environment working
221 2011-04-25 01:59:50 robblesz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
222 2011-04-25 01:59:50 <prograle> maybe i should upload it somewhere so people can start developing whitout have to worry about setup the environment
223 2011-04-25 02:02:47 <B0g4r7> Sounds like a win.
224 2011-04-25 02:03:14 <B0g4r7> Even better would be a script that can be executed on top of a vanilla Ubuntu install to set it up.
225 2011-04-25 02:03:21 <B0g4r7> (or similar)
226 2011-04-25 02:07:28 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
227 2011-04-25 02:13:11 sec^nd has joined
228 2011-04-25 02:14:41 <sec^nd> hello
229 2011-04-25 02:14:52 <sec^nd> is there a fix for the lost bitcoins yet ?
230 2011-04-25 02:14:56 * sec^nd thinks not
231 2011-04-25 02:15:13 <sec^nd> that blackhole is a problem imo
232 2011-04-25 02:15:42 <sec^nd> if the ammount of bitcoins is fixed and some are lost then eventually there wont be anymore bitcoins
233 2011-04-25 02:16:00 <sec^nd> also you won't know how many bitcoins are still in the network because you lost some
234 2011-04-25 02:16:04 * sec^nd is just saying ...
235 2011-04-25 02:16:27 <midnightmagic> what blackhole?
236 2011-04-25 02:16:40 <midnightmagic> ah the fake one.
237 2011-04-25 02:16:47 <sec^nd> its not fake
238 2011-04-25 02:17:07 <midnightmagic> you did know that btc can be divided down to 8 decimal places right?
239 2011-04-25 02:17:22 prograle has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
240 2011-04-25 02:17:34 <sec^nd> if you mistype a bitcoin address (copy pasta fail off by 1 char) then you will lose the bitcoins you sent to said address
241 2011-04-25 02:17:35 <midnightmagic> each bitcoin can represent 100,000,000 units of something.
242 2011-04-25 02:17:47 <sec^nd> midnightmagic: understand me now ?
243 2011-04-25 02:17:55 <midnightmagic> lol
244 2011-04-25 02:18:03 <midnightmagic> try validateaddress
245 2011-04-25 02:18:08 <sec^nd> thats the blackhole
246 2011-04-25 02:18:12 <sec^nd> do they have that yet ?
247 2011-04-25 02:18:14 <midnightmagic> not much of a blackhole.
248 2011-04-25 02:18:19 <sec^nd> heh
249 2011-04-25 02:18:22 <sec^nd> mistakes happen
250 2011-04-25 02:18:23 <tcatm> sec^nd: bitcoin will detect mistyped addresses
251 2011-04-25 02:18:41 <sacarlson> sec^nd: I see in the code that the last 4 bytes are a hash to verify the address is valid so not likly that would hapen
252 2011-04-25 02:18:51 <sec^nd> well I accidentally sent coins to a server that was wiped, anyway to get them back ?
253 2011-04-25 02:18:58 <midnightmagic> what, did you delete your wallet by accident?
254 2011-04-25 02:19:11 <sec^nd> empty wallet on another system
255 2011-04-25 02:19:20 <tcatm> sec^nd: nope. they're gone. that's a feature of bitcoin, not a bug.
256 2011-04-25 02:19:28 <sec^nd> while playing with bitcoin (lost little) but notice it as a bug
257 2011-04-25 02:19:31 <sec^nd> how is that a feature ?
258 2011-04-25 02:19:34 <midnightmagic> yeah, if you aren't just trolling, i suspect a large percentage of people whining about the "blackhole" were being careless with their money
259 2011-04-25 02:20:03 <tcatm> all transactions are final and non-reversible
260 2011-04-25 02:20:07 <tcatm> that's the feature
261 2011-04-25 02:21:41 <sacarlson> tcatm: but soon hopfully to add escrow we will also have limited reversible
262 2011-04-25 02:23:14 <tcatm> an escrow added to bitcoin itself will likely only allow to a) give to payee or b) destroy bitcoins
263 2011-04-25 02:24:10 <midnightmagic> would it be possible to pay to two addresses?
264 2011-04-25 02:24:15 <midnightmagic> i forget now..
265 2011-04-25 02:24:32 <tcatm> sendmany?
266 2011-04-25 02:25:34 <midnightmagic> so two other addresses have the authority to subsequently spend, but only for that next hop.
267 2011-04-25 02:25:40 <sacarlson> tcatm: that would likly be the first but I would also like a group pools money and with the vote of the majority to send it all to one in the group or if less than 50% return to all parties
268 2011-04-25 02:26:17 <midnightmagic> in that fashion, you can spend to a local and a remote, and once verified at the remote, you spend to another local there. you eliminate the possibility of moving bitcoins (as sec) losing them.
269 2011-04-25 02:26:21 <tcatm> sacarlson: that might be possible, too
270 2011-04-25 02:26:23 <midnightmagic> (assuming they use it)
271 2011-04-25 02:26:36 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
272 2011-04-25 02:27:33 <tcatm> midnightmagic: how would that help? either receiver or sender could send the coins to a new address as soon as the tx is valid
273 2011-04-25 02:28:26 xlogik_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
274 2011-04-25 02:28:36 <midnightmagic> right, and if all the addresses all belong to the same person, then it stays in two wallets until he decides to put it into the local wallet at the remote end.
275 2011-04-25 02:29:02 xlogik_ has joined
276 2011-04-25 02:29:05 <midnightmagic> (so, two transactions)
277 2011-04-25 02:29:41 <midnightmagic> and eventually it becomes a "pay extra to be extra-safe" moving around within a trusted network of wallets.
278 2011-04-25 02:30:31 <devrandom> midnightmagic - I started a thread on that
279 2011-04-25 02:30:58 <devrandom> sec
280 2011-04-25 02:31:20 <devrandom> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4723.msg68804#msg68804
281 2011-04-25 02:31:21 xlogik has quit (Disconnected by services)
282 2011-04-25 02:31:28 <midnightmagic> oh..
283 2011-04-25 02:31:35 <midnightmagic> maybe that's where i got the idea.
284 2011-04-25 02:31:58 xlogik has joined
285 2011-04-25 02:31:58 <devrandom> cool
286 2011-04-25 02:32:06 Roncevaux has joined
287 2011-04-25 02:32:38 <Roncevaux> Hi, I'd like some help with the original bitcoin client.
288 2011-04-25 02:33:29 Guest10739 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
289 2011-04-25 02:33:40 <Roncevaux> How can I change the language of the client interface?
290 2011-04-25 02:35:12 Xer has left ()
291 2011-04-25 02:35:55 kermit has joined
292 2011-04-25 02:36:07 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
293 2011-04-25 02:36:09 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.794,"low":1.6,"vol":15785,"buy":1.63,"sell":1.6889,"last":1.6299}}
294 2011-04-25 02:36:23 <sacarlson> devrandom: that link look perfect I would like to implement that on my proto coin and weeds
295 2011-04-25 02:37:00 <Roncevaux> Hello?
296 2011-04-25 02:37:08 <sacarlson> devrandom: is that just a theory or has it been tested on testnet?
297 2011-04-25 02:37:14 tabsa has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
298 2011-04-25 02:37:38 <Roncevaux> Who could possibly answer my question?
299 2011-04-25 02:38:04 <sacarlson> Roncevaux: spesmilo has several languages in setup
300 2011-04-25 02:38:46 <Roncevaux> And what is spesmilo?
301 2011-04-25 02:38:58 <sacarlson> Roncevaux: it's another user interface to bitcoind
302 2011-04-25 02:39:07 <devrandom> sacarlson - gavin seemed to agree it works
303 2011-04-25 02:39:24 <Roncevaux> Well, I've already installed the original client and would like to use it
304 2011-04-25 02:40:01 <sacarlson> devrandom: I would like more details on how to set that up, I didn't read the entire article yet
305 2011-04-25 02:40:27 <sacarlson> devrandom: I run the git version in my present coins but I can patch them if needed
306 2011-04-25 02:40:31 <devrandom> sacarlson - it's a pretty straightforward application of the scripting engine, and I did look at the relevant code details
307 2011-04-25 02:41:22 <devrandom> you'd have to disable the IsStandard check or extend it, so that you can mine these transactions
308 2011-04-25 02:41:38 <devrandom> right now miners reject the tx for mining of !IsStandard
309 2011-04-25 02:41:48 <luke-jr> not all
310 2011-04-25 02:41:52 <devrandom> and you'd have to generate the relevant script
311 2011-04-25 02:41:57 <devrandom> oh, right
312 2011-04-25 02:41:58 malfy has joined
313 2011-04-25 02:42:08 manu1 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.1.18/20110324092924])
314 2011-04-25 02:42:08 <midnightmagic> devrandom: ++ your post!
315 2011-04-25 02:42:19 <devrandom> thanks :)
316 2011-04-25 02:42:25 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,mtgox
317 2011-04-25 02:42:26 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.794,"low":1.6,"vol":15712,"buy":1.6301,"sell":1.6778,"last":1.6299}}
318 2011-04-25 02:42:26 <sacarlson> devrandom: no problem on my private net I only have a single minner or at most 2 so not a problem
319 2011-04-25 02:42:43 <devrandom> btw, what are you working on?
320 2011-04-25 02:43:16 <midnightmagic> these are the sorts of things that will increase the worth and versatility of the currency, massively..
321 2011-04-25 02:43:17 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
322 2011-04-25 02:43:33 <midnightmagic> sorry are you asking me that, devrandom?
323 2011-04-25 02:43:43 denkins has joined
324 2011-04-25 02:43:51 <devrandom> the script would have to do multiple OP_CHECKSIGs, count the successes, and have some kind of check, e.g. count > n
325 2011-04-25 02:44:04 <devrandom> I was asking sacarlson...
326 2011-04-25 02:44:22 <Roncevaux> Well, i give up.
327 2011-04-25 02:44:41 <devrandom> but if you are working on something interesting, tell me too :)
328 2011-04-25 02:44:54 <midnightmagic> ah good then
329 2011-04-25 02:44:55 Teslah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
330 2011-04-25 02:45:00 <midnightmagic> :-) no, i
331 2011-04-25 02:46:15 <midnightmagic> i'm just a miner with opinions who wouldn't have any problems at all mining on production with fully-enabled scripting. :)
332 2011-04-25 02:46:18 <midnightmagic> just sayin' :)
333 2011-04-25 02:46:30 <sacarlson> devrandom: oh well i'm just in study mode now but hope to have pokerth interfaced to bitcoin or a dirivitive and also looking at micro comodites and equity trading with it
334 2011-04-25 02:46:52 Roncevaux has quit (Quit: Page closed)
335 2011-04-25 02:47:40 <sacarlson> devrandom: my work is all public opensource
336 2011-04-25 02:47:56 <devrandom> midnightmagic - cool... you could probably charge extra fees
337 2011-04-25 02:48:17 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: so do it ;p
338 2011-04-25 02:48:34 <devrandom> oh, so you want to implement a gambling interface on top of the blockchain?
339 2011-04-25 02:48:35 <midnightmagic> not interested in maintaining a fork (yet)
340 2011-04-25 02:48:43 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: you could just merge mine :p
341 2011-04-25 02:48:45 <midnightmagic> gambling. yeh hehe
342 2011-04-25 02:49:12 <sacarlson> devrandom: yes a block chain could be setup as a p2p open casino
343 2011-04-25 02:49:14 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: git pull git://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin.git policy
344 2011-04-25 02:49:41 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: then -addnode=173.242.112.53 and add yourself to the table on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Free_transaction_relay_policy
345 2011-04-25 02:50:05 <midnightmagic> is that production net? or your own testnet?
346 2011-04-25 02:50:11 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: production net
347 2011-04-25 02:50:12 <devrandom> sacarlson - would you implement the random number generator cryptographically in the blockchain?
348 2011-04-25 02:50:50 <midnightmagic> what's the point of addnode'ing yours?
349 2011-04-25 02:50:57 <sacarlson> devrandom: yes it uses the same code in the crypto just different rules in inflation
350 2011-04-25 02:51:00 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: that's just the free tx relay node
351 2011-04-25 02:51:09 <midnightmagic> oh
352 2011-04-25 02:51:10 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: if you don't peer with it, you can't send/receive non-standard txns
353 2011-04-25 02:51:19 <luke-jr> (slightly oversimplified)
354 2011-04-25 02:52:43 <phantomcircuit_> lol
355 2011-04-25 02:52:45 <phantomcircuit_> <3 python
356 2011-04-25 02:52:53 <phantomcircuit_> i just replaced 500 loc in php with reduce(lambda x,y: x+len(y),tree.xpath('//text()'),0)
357 2011-04-25 02:53:06 <phantomcircuit_> the guy was like FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
358 2011-04-25 02:53:28 <sacarlson> devrandom: the new chains that run now have the ability to create 99% of all it's value in the first 1000 blocks then inflation drops to block creation minning value drop to .01weed per minned block
359 2011-04-25 02:53:45 <midnightmagic> peering with it is not a requirement for non-standard txn, but it helps to join it and link up with other similar-minded miners.
360 2011-04-25 02:54:11 skeledrew has joined
361 2011-04-25 02:54:59 <midnightmagic> all i'd really need to do is ensure i can mine my own non-standard txn into the blockchain reliably.
362 2011-04-25 02:55:05 <devrandom> sacarlson - oh, you are just changing the currency rules, you are not doing any random number generation in the chain itself...
363 2011-04-25 02:55:57 <sacarlson> devrandom: it's the same code it still uses new random numbers to create new chains
364 2011-04-25 02:56:10 <devrandom> ok
365 2011-04-25 02:56:20 <[Tycho]> "Free transaction relay policy" looks a bit strange, considering that the fee is mandatory :)
366 2011-04-25 02:57:10 <sacarlson> devrandom: in these envirnments you can create faster changes and inovation
367 2011-04-25 02:57:17 <devrandom> sacarlson - are you using the block hashes as seeds when generating the poker deck shuffle?
368 2011-04-25 02:57:34 dust1 has joined
369 2011-04-25 02:58:22 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: the fee is not mandatory for relaying
370 2011-04-25 02:58:26 <sacarlson> devrandom: in the pokerth I use there original code just have the players make a deposit into the escrow to start the game and the winner in the group get the pot
371 2011-04-25 02:58:29 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: that's the point of the page: free relaying
372 2011-04-25 02:58:39 <devrandom> sacarlson - ok
373 2011-04-25 02:59:55 <sacarlson> devrandom: so with this method you could play a game with entry of .05btc or 1000weeds and that could buy you 10000 chips to start your pokerth game
374 2011-04-25 02:59:57 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: also, my miner does require fees to get into a block, BUT those fees are much less than the default (except when default gives them away)
375 2011-04-25 03:00:27 <devrandom> sacarlson - is weeds yet another chain?
376 2011-04-25 03:00:52 <sacarlson> devrandom: yes weeds is just another chain with different rules
377 2011-04-25 03:00:56 <devrandom> or is that the chain you are talking about earlier, and the chips are not a chain
378 2011-04-25 03:01:39 <sacarlson> devrandom: I have many chains with different rules and different names some have died some may live on
379 2011-04-25 03:01:50 <devrandom> cool
380 2011-04-25 03:02:45 <sacarlson> devrandom: I'm also working on a multi net client that enable transactions on many networks, I have a working version but with no user interface
381 2011-04-25 03:02:55 xlogik_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
382 2011-04-25 03:03:32 <devrandom> I looked through the current code and it seemed pretty difficult to do something like that, since there are alot of globals
383 2011-04-25 03:03:43 <devrandom> did you start from scratch?
384 2011-04-25 03:04:08 noagendamarket has joined
385 2011-04-25 03:04:12 <sacarlson> with my new multi network chain I hope to add a 4 byte header to the address to identify what network is needed to transact it that can be human readable as well
386 2011-04-25 03:04:58 <sacarlson> devrandom: no I just modify the existing code just worked on it so far for about 15 days
387 2011-04-25 03:05:13 skyewm has joined
388 2011-04-25 03:05:55 <sacarlson> devrandom: I'm just pulling out alot of the hard coded number into the config file
389 2011-04-25 03:06:18 <devrandom> seems like hard work...
390 2011-04-25 03:06:42 <devrandom> maybe it makes sense to write a separate program that interacts with multiple bitcoind instances using RPC?
391 2011-04-25 03:06:52 <sacarlson> devrandom: not when you have the help here from the developers when you can't figure it out they point the way
392 2011-04-25 03:08:30 <sacarlson> devrandom: that's what the spesmilo already does and it's writen in python
393 2011-04-25 03:08:42 <devrandom> ok
394 2011-04-25 03:09:15 <sacarlson> devrandom: I can control all my running bitcoind over rpc
395 2011-04-25 03:09:31 <devrandom> right
396 2011-04-25 03:10:07 <B0g4r7> all your bitcoind are belong to us.
397 2011-04-25 03:16:37 <sacarlson> devrandom: I just did a grep IsStandard * and see it 5 times in 3 files
398 2011-04-25 03:16:46 phantomcircuit_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
399 2011-04-25 03:17:05 <sacarlson> devrandom: so I'll make sure it's turned on in my minners
400 2011-04-25 03:19:29 xlogik_ has joined
401 2011-04-25 03:19:32 <noagendamarket> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1817857 it pisses me off when people in the US think their laws apply anywhere else
402 2011-04-25 03:19:56 OneOne has joined
403 2011-04-25 03:21:41 phantomcircuit_ has joined
404 2011-04-25 03:22:15 xlogik_ has quit (Client Quit)
405 2011-04-25 03:25:43 djoot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
406 2011-04-25 03:28:36 <luke-jr> noagendamarket: me too. but same goes for a lot of countries
407 2011-04-25 03:28:44 <luke-jr> they talk about "international law" as if such a thing exists
408 2011-04-25 03:29:06 sethsethseth has joined
409 2011-04-25 03:30:49 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
410 2011-04-25 03:32:26 <luke-jr> wtf, this paper claims Bitcoin is a fiat currency
411 2011-04-25 03:33:03 <luke-jr> it's supposed to be on legalities, yet the author is ignorant what fiat means?
412 2011-04-25 03:34:27 <eternal1> anyone know what is the estimated time to generate a block using the standard client .. on the namecoin chain ?
413 2011-04-25 03:34:32 djoot has joined
414 2011-04-25 03:34:32 <phantomcircuit_> luke-jr, link?
415 2011-04-25 03:34:35 <midnightmagic> namecoin?
416 2011-04-25 03:34:38 <luke-jr> [23:15:33] <noagendamarket> http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1817857 it pisses me off when people in the US think their laws apply anywhere else
417 2011-04-25 03:35:19 <eternal1> namecoin is a new blockchain
418 2011-04-25 03:35:38 <noagendamarket> what do you expect from a law student
419 2011-04-25 03:35:40 <midnightmagic> they didn't take satoshi's own advice and merge the mining work with mainline bitcoin?
420 2011-04-25 03:35:41 <midnightmagic> lol
421 2011-04-25 03:35:52 <midnightmagic> meh
422 2011-04-25 03:35:54 <Compgenius> hey guys
423 2011-04-25 03:35:56 <Compgenius> how long should it normally take to confirm 0.05btc?
424 2011-04-25 03:36:10 <noagendamarket> midnightmagic apparently its possible to use it that way
425 2011-04-25 03:36:10 <Compgenius> been waiting 15 minutes so far, still at 0/unconfirmed
426 2011-04-25 03:36:19 <midnightmagic> 10 minutes perhaps? or more if your txn didn't make it into a recent block
427 2011-04-25 03:37:12 <[Tycho]> Compgenius, look if your tx is in the queue: http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin
428 2011-04-25 03:37:18 <eternal1> is somene using namecoin ?
429 2011-04-25 03:38:46 <davex__> luke-jr: he says he's going to reword (fiat) that in some future revision
430 2011-04-25 03:42:49 <netxshare> what are the recommend settings for a 5970
431 2011-04-25 03:42:52 <netxshare> got one today
432 2011-04-25 03:47:47 <midnightmagic> netxshare, luke-jr will mock you and laugh at you if you overclock it even a little and it fails.. so if you are interested in making luke-jr happy, leave it run stock. else, if you can keep it below 85C (or 80C) then you should be able to overclock it marginally to get a few more hash. but people are leery of coaching you on it because nobody wants to be responsible for killing your 5970
433 2011-04-25 03:48:30 <luke-jr> netxshare: overclocking equals damaging. if it's worth significantly shortening your card's life, do it.
434 2011-04-25 03:48:48 taco_the_paco has joined
435 2011-04-25 03:48:48 taco_the_paco has quit (Changing host)
436 2011-04-25 03:48:48 taco_the_paco has joined
437 2011-04-25 03:49:11 <midnightmagic> and upon what do you base this opinion?
438 2011-04-25 03:50:02 <[Tycho]> netxshare, i'm using 5970 slightly overclocked - at 800 MHz GPU and underclocked VRAM.
439 2011-04-25 03:50:14 dfc has joined
440 2011-04-25 03:50:23 <B0g4r7> I run mine at the stock clock speed.
441 2011-04-25 03:50:39 <B0g4r7> Once I get liquid cooling going I may fool around with moar cl0ck.
442 2011-04-25 03:51:00 <[Tycho]> 5870 is fine at 930, but some people use it at 950 MHz
443 2011-04-25 03:51:17 <B0g4r7> I figure the coolers are already working working damned hard doing 24/7 duty.
444 2011-04-25 03:51:29 <B0g4r7> Which they surely were not designed for.
445 2011-04-25 03:51:38 <B0g4r7> 100% load, 100% duty cycle.
446 2011-04-25 03:51:47 <[Tycho]> Watercooling is way too expensive, but sometimes allow 3 cards in one MB :)
447 2011-04-25 03:52:13 <[Tycho]> No, fan shouldn't run at 100%, usually 50-75% is enough.
448 2011-04-25 03:52:29 <B0g4r7> Mine run 70%.
449 2011-04-25 03:52:30 <luke-jr> cooling can make it give you valid results overclocked, but won't stop it from damaging the card
450 2011-04-25 03:52:42 <TheKid> quick question - what's the command to let miners connect from other ips
451 2011-04-25 03:53:10 <davex__> it wouldn't necessarily damage it, i don't think. only if it runs too hot for too long.
452 2011-04-25 03:53:20 <luke-jr> davex__: it does.
453 2011-04-25 03:53:29 <luke-jr> TheKid: -rpcallowip=*.*.*.*
454 2011-04-25 03:53:34 <luke-jr> or something like that
455 2011-04-25 03:53:42 <davex__> artforz was talking about this once
456 2011-04-25 03:54:00 <B0g4r7> Yeah, how does it gt damaged exactly?
457 2011-04-25 03:54:00 <TheKid> thanks luke-jr
458 2011-04-25 03:54:08 <luke-jr> B0g4r7: nobody knows afaik
459 2011-04-25 03:54:36 <B0g4r7> And damaged how. Like inoperable?
460 2011-04-25 03:54:39 <luke-jr> B0g4r7: could vary from card to card, possibly
461 2011-04-25 03:54:43 <luke-jr> B0g4r7: shorter lifetime
462 2011-04-25 03:54:51 <TheKid> technically it's just a risk
463 2011-04-25 03:54:52 <[Tycho]> Looks like luke-jr doesn't knows enough about hardware...
464 2011-04-25 03:55:02 <TheKid> because the card is engineered to run at a certain frequency
465 2011-04-25 03:55:29 <TheKid> you can run it faster but then the manufacturer makes no guarantee about the mtbf
466 2011-04-25 03:55:41 <luke-jr> TheKid: sometimes they give estimates
467 2011-04-25 03:55:51 <[Tycho]> If you run it faster, but temps are not to high, then lifetime is not affected.
468 2011-04-25 03:55:58 <luke-jr> for example, OMAP3 is supposed to last 2-3 years or something at its standard 500 MHz
469 2011-04-25 03:56:09 <luke-jr> but if you run it at 600 MHz, TI says it will last 1 year
470 2011-04-25 03:56:27 <[Tycho]> 2-3 years is almost nothing, what a bad chip is your OMAP...
471 2011-04-25 03:56:48 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: maybe it was longer, I really just remember the 600 MHz speed cuz that's what Nokia set default :P
472 2011-04-25 03:57:17 <luke-jr> catch being, they expect it to be idle most of the time anyway
473 2011-04-25 03:57:38 <luke-jr> cuz if you actually keep it at the 600 MHz constantly, the battery won't last long :P
474 2011-04-25 03:57:47 <[Tycho]> Pentium processors are working tens of years just fine :)
475 2011-04-25 03:57:55 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: overclocked?
476 2011-04-25 03:58:24 <[Tycho]> No. I have one without fan, running 24/7 for more than 10 y.
477 2011-04-25 03:58:28 <B0g4r7> I'm using 10 year old Athlon chips.
478 2011-04-25 03:58:38 <luke-jr> Pentiums ran without fans?
479 2011-04-25 03:58:43 <[Tycho]> yes.
480 2011-04-25 03:58:54 <[Tycho]> It's not AMD :)
481 2011-04-25 03:59:03 <dfc> luke-jr is a young-in
482 2011-04-25 03:59:06 <luke-jr> I just recently found I couldn't boot an i386
483 2011-04-25 03:59:20 <luke-jr> dfc: no, I just thought my Pentium had fans :P
484 2011-04-25 03:59:34 <[Tycho]> I don't know english terms, but the lifetime shortening is caused by thermal emission. So if your cooling is fine then GPU will work long enough.
485 2011-04-25 03:59:48 <[Tycho]> Anyway you'll sell or replace your card in a few years.
486 2011-04-25 04:00:05 <luke-jr> it's fraud to sell an overclocked card unless you say it outright.
487 2011-04-25 04:00:31 <netxshare> luke-jr: I had seening underclocking helps
488 2011-04-25 04:00:44 <netxshare> right now the 5970 runs at like 83-84C
489 2011-04-25 04:01:21 max__ has joined
490 2011-04-25 04:02:00 <netxshare> using -v -w 128 I think on m0m's
491 2011-04-25 04:02:11 <netxshare> I am getting about 525-530
492 2011-04-25 04:02:30 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, what is your experience, if measured in quantity of fried 5870/5970 cards ?
493 2011-04-25 04:02:59 <[Tycho]> netxshare, you'll get 580 at 800 MHz.
494 2011-04-25 04:03:26 <netxshare> the shader clock?
495 2011-04-25 04:03:34 <netxshare> er core clock
496 2011-04-25 04:03:42 <[Tycho]> Yes.
497 2011-04-25 04:03:51 <[Tycho]> Memory can be set at 500 or 300 MHz.
498 2011-04-25 04:04:03 <netxshare> okay
499 2011-04-25 04:04:28 <[Tycho]> Underclocking memory will make the card more power-efficient.
500 2011-04-25 04:04:39 <[Tycho]> 40W less or something like it.
501 2011-04-25 04:05:40 <netxshare> ill go test this, thanks for the info
502 2011-04-25 04:09:26 <[Tycho]> Use MSI Afterburner to control the fan speed.
503 2011-04-25 04:09:31 <Compgenius> i see bitcoin is lagging a bit...
504 2011-04-25 04:09:41 <Compgenius> http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
505 2011-04-25 04:10:00 <[Tycho]> Or set it to a higher value because it's better to be less than +80C
506 2011-04-25 04:10:12 <Compgenius> it was only at 6 unconfirmed half an hour ago, and now it's up to 29 and it doesn't seem like anything has moved >_>
507 2011-04-25 04:10:40 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
508 2011-04-25 04:10:46 <[Tycho]> Compgenius, it's mostly cleaned with each block.
509 2011-04-25 04:15:49 inductor_ has joined
510 2011-04-25 04:18:05 inductor has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
511 2011-04-25 04:19:18 <netxshare> yeah
512 2011-04-25 04:19:24 <netxshare> I turned on msi afterburner
513 2011-04-25 04:19:30 <netxshare> set it to those settings
514 2011-04-25 04:19:36 <netxshare> doing around 72-74c
515 2011-04-25 04:19:48 <netxshare> and doing 575-595
516 2011-04-25 04:20:07 <netxshare> it will do even better once I change the miner
517 2011-04-25 04:23:18 <[Tycho]> 72-74 is fine :)
518 2011-04-25 04:23:22 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
519 2011-04-25 04:23:27 <[Tycho]> What miner do you use ?
520 2011-04-25 04:28:01 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
521 2011-04-25 04:28:48 <Compgenius> 48 unconfirmed...i wonder how long until someone finds a block and clears this up...
522 2011-04-25 04:28:56 <netxshare> right now I am using poclbm
523 2011-04-25 04:29:27 <[Tycho]> Poclbm is the best one, why would you want to change it ?
524 2011-04-25 04:29:51 <netxshare> writing my own
525 2011-04-25 04:29:56 <netxshare> I don't want to use opencl
526 2011-04-25 04:30:21 <[Tycho]> Going low level ?
527 2011-04-25 04:30:25 <netxshare> yeah
528 2011-04-25 04:31:00 <[Tycho]> This would give you 1-3% more, does it worth it ? :)
529 2011-04-25 04:31:12 RazielZ has joined
530 2011-04-25 04:31:20 <netxshare> I have seen better results then that
531 2011-04-25 04:31:30 <[Tycho]> mrb's one ?
532 2011-04-25 04:31:36 <netxshare> that's one example
533 2011-04-25 04:31:36 <max__> bitcoind shouldnt listen on port 8333 when its in server mode?
534 2011-04-25 04:32:11 <max__> 8332 is the rpc port righht? and 8333 ?
535 2011-04-25 04:32:16 <netxshare> I also don't want to run 1 process per gpu
536 2011-04-25 04:32:39 <Compgenius> max__, no 8332 is for a json server, 8333 is the main port for bitcoin
537 2011-04-25 04:33:21 <max__> okay i have bitcoind running as a json rpc server, right?
538 2011-04-25 04:33:30 <max__> and now, how do i open port 8333 ?
539 2011-04-25 04:33:54 <max__> i need to run bitcoin in client mode to open port 8333 ?
540 2011-04-25 04:34:36 <max__> isnt there a way to run bitcoind that will open both? 8332 and 8333 ?
541 2011-04-25 04:34:49 <Compgenius> max__, i'm unsure about the whole bitcoind server, but yeah generally it should listen on 8333 for node connections
542 2011-04-25 04:35:06 <max__> maybe if i run bitcoin in daemon mode it will open both?
543 2011-04-25 04:36:04 taco_the_paco has joined
544 2011-04-25 04:39:23 <doublec> max__: it listens on 8333 by default doesn't it?
545 2011-04-25 04:39:44 <doublec> max__: 8332 only if you pass '-server' or run bitcoind
546 2011-04-25 04:39:51 <max__> doublec: i think the bitcoin client runs on 8333 by default
547 2011-04-25 04:39:57 <doublec> yes
548 2011-04-25 04:40:00 <max__> doublec: if i run bitcoind it runs on 8332
549 2011-04-25 04:40:02 <max__> however
550 2011-04-25 04:40:05 <max__> i need both ports open
551 2011-04-25 04:40:09 <max__> what do you suggest me to do?
552 2011-04-25 04:40:13 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
553 2011-04-25 04:40:22 <max__> maybe bitcoin -server will open both ?
554 2011-04-25 04:40:27 <doublec> max__: bitcoind runs the RPC server on 8332
555 2011-04-25 04:40:33 <doublec> bitcoin -server does do both
556 2011-04-25 04:40:34 <max__> yes
557 2011-04-25 04:40:37 <max__> okay
558 2011-04-25 04:40:46 <max__> ill try bitcoin -server and let you know
559 2011-04-25 04:40:48 ybit has quit (Quit: leaving)
560 2011-04-25 04:40:48 <doublec> '-server' says "run the RPC server on -rpcport"
561 2011-04-25 04:41:01 <doublec> with 8332 being the default
562 2011-04-25 04:42:35 <max__> i want
563 2011-04-25 04:42:40 <max__> to kill bitcoin -dameon but i cant
564 2011-04-25 04:42:47 <max__> weird
565 2011-04-25 04:42:58 <Compgenius> max__, are you on linux or windows?
566 2011-04-25 04:43:04 <max__> root 12980 0.0 0.6 33252 5012 ? Ss 00:23 0:00 ./bitcoin -daemon root 12981 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? Zs 00:23 0:00 [bitcoin] <defunct> root 12998 0.0 0.6 33252 5012 ? Ss 00:23 0:00 ./bitcoin -daemon root 12999 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? Zs 00:23 0:00 [bitcoin] <defunct>
567 2011-04-25 04:43:05 <max__> linux
568 2011-04-25 04:43:12 <max__> kill isnt working
569 2011-04-25 04:43:13 <Compgenius> ah, kill -9 12980
570 2011-04-25 04:43:15 <Compgenius> as root
571 2011-04-25 04:43:34 <max__> i know but 12980: no process found
572 2011-04-25 04:43:46 <netxshare> sleepy time
573 2011-04-25 04:43:52 <Compgenius> thats strange
574 2011-04-25 04:43:57 <dfc> whats the most efficient way to connect 10 miners to a pool? individual connections tothe pool?
575 2011-04-25 04:44:06 <[Tycho]> Yes.
576 2011-04-25 04:44:19 <max__> Comgenius: yes its very weird
577 2011-04-25 04:44:21 <Compgenius> it's even more strange, theres 2 zombie bitcoin processes
578 2011-04-25 04:44:22 <dfc> [Tycho]: i thought the getwork connections were a problem
579 2011-04-25 04:44:27 <Compgenius> sounds like something's going wrogn there
580 2011-04-25 04:44:41 <dfc> killall -9 bitcoin
581 2011-04-25 04:44:43 <max__> Compgenius: yes i want to kill them without need to restart
582 2011-04-25 04:44:51 <dfc> killall -9 bitcoin
583 2011-04-25 04:44:53 <Compgenius> do what dfc said ^
584 2011-04-25 04:45:02 <max__> killall -9 bitcoin worked
585 2011-04-25 04:45:04 <max__> thxs
586 2011-04-25 04:45:39 <dfc> was [Tycho]'s yes an answer to my question about multiple connections to a pool server?
587 2011-04-25 04:45:50 <dfc> for what its worth all the miners are on the same subnet
588 2011-04-25 04:46:19 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
589 2011-04-25 04:47:33 <[Tycho]> dfc, why would getwork connections be a problem ?
590 2011-04-25 04:47:57 <dfc> i thought the pool servers where having issues with the numer of getwork requests
591 2011-04-25 04:48:00 <max__> doublec: bitcoin -server isnt openning both ports 8333 and 8332
592 2011-04-25 04:48:00 <max__> it just opens 8332
593 2011-04-25 04:48:00 <max__> weird
594 2011-04-25 04:48:05 <max__> maybe i need to wait a bit for 8333 to connect?
595 2011-04-25 04:48:12 <dfc> hence the push for push-pooling
596 2011-04-25 04:48:16 <doublec> max__: how are you checking they are open?
597 2011-04-25 04:48:24 <dfc> listening or connecting
598 2011-04-25 04:48:25 <max__> telnet localhost 8332
599 2011-04-25 04:48:28 <max__> telnet localhost 8333
600 2011-04-25 04:48:31 bitcoiner has joined
601 2011-04-25 04:48:33 <dfc> netstat -rn |grep 833
602 2011-04-25 04:48:36 <[Tycho]> dfc, my server doesn't :) Some others had problems, but not sure if they still do.
603 2011-04-25 04:48:48 <dfc> [Tycho]: which is yours
604 2011-04-25 04:48:52 <doublec> 8333 is a shy server. It won't send anything unless you send a version btw
605 2011-04-25 04:49:05 <doublec> (although it will connect)
606 2011-04-25 04:49:19 <max__> i need to open port 8333 and port 8332
607 2011-04-25 04:49:19 <max__> because im running pushpool and it needs both
608 2011-04-25 04:49:26 <[Tycho]> dfc, deepbit.net
609 2011-04-25 04:49:48 <doublec> check the debug log and see if there are any errors
610 2011-04-25 04:50:00 <dfc> max__: please listten to me for a second
611 2011-04-25 04:50:10 <dfc> netstat -rn |grep 833
612 2011-04-25 04:50:11 <max__> where is it?
613 2011-04-25 04:50:18 <[Tycho]> dfc, you have to do all the getwork requests anyway, even with a proxy :)
614 2011-04-25 04:50:48 <dfc> so how about the push-pool daemon from garzik
615 2011-04-25 04:50:51 <max__> dfc: done it does nothing
616 2011-04-25 04:51:00 <max__> dfc im using it
617 2011-04-25 04:51:09 <max__> but to use it
618 2011-04-25 04:51:24 <dfc> imajerk
619 2011-04-25 04:51:29 <dfc> scrap the r
620 2011-04-25 04:51:29 <max__> i first need to open bitcoind with port 8333 and port 8332 open
621 2011-04-25 04:51:32 <dfc> netstat -n
622 2011-04-25 04:51:52 <dfc> so you arent really using it yet:)
623 2011-04-25 04:52:01 <max__> done
624 2011-04-25 04:52:04 <dfc> max__: first unix account?
625 2011-04-25 04:52:11 <max__> i compiled it
626 2011-04-25 04:52:12 <max__> and i configured the config files
627 2011-04-25 04:52:34 <max__> ?
628 2011-04-25 04:52:34 <max__> dfc what do you mean
629 2011-04-25 04:52:38 <dfc> why would one run a push-pool server?
630 2011-04-25 04:52:48 <dfc> on a small scale?
631 2011-04-25 04:52:58 <max__> i want to run a push pool server
632 2011-04-25 04:53:04 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
633 2011-04-25 04:53:25 <doublec> what is a 'push pool server'?
634 2011-04-25 04:53:30 <max__> i have many machines
635 2011-04-25 04:53:30 <max__> i need to connect them all
636 2011-04-25 04:53:30 <max__> togheter
637 2011-04-25 04:53:36 <max__> i have 3000 machines
638 2011-04-25 04:53:43 <max__> running 6990 gpus
639 2011-04-25 04:53:44 <dfc> how many is many
640 2011-04-25 04:53:53 <dfc> 3k?
641 2011-04-25 04:53:56 <max__> yes
642 2011-04-25 04:54:03 <dfc> you are th uk guy?
643 2011-04-25 04:54:08 <max__> no
644 2011-04-25 04:54:25 <doublec> you a janitor at pixar or something?
645 2011-04-25 04:54:32 <doublec> :)
646 2011-04-25 04:54:37 <dfc> where does one come up with the loot for 3k machines?
647 2011-04-25 04:54:40 <max__> lol no
648 2011-04-25 04:54:40 <max__> can you please help me to get the push pool up and running?
649 2011-04-25 04:54:47 <dfc> max i can
650 2011-04-25 04:54:49 <doublec> I'll help for a cut of the profits
651 2011-04-25 04:55:01 aksoo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
652 2011-04-25 04:55:07 <dfc> max__: netstat -n |grep 833
653 2011-04-25 04:55:12 <max__> im just joking i dont have 3000 machines lol
654 2011-04-25 04:55:12 <max__> i just want to test this out
655 2011-04-25 04:55:21 <dfc> max__: netstat -n |grep 833
656 2011-04-25 04:55:22 <doublec> I'm dissapointed
657 2011-04-25 04:55:23 <max__> dfc i already did it
658 2011-04-25 04:55:26 <dfc> and
659 2011-04-25 04:55:27 <max__> it doesnt return anything
660 2011-04-25 04:55:37 <dfc> did you do -n or -rn
661 2011-04-25 04:55:45 <max__> -n
662 2011-04-25 04:55:48 <doublec> paste your bitcoin.conf somewhere (without user/pasword)
663 2011-04-25 04:55:58 <dfc> netstat -n |grep bitcoin
664 2011-04-25 04:56:02 <doublec> are you sure you're not using '-nolisten' or something?
665 2011-04-25 04:56:18 <max__> i have all the bitcoin stuff killed btw
666 2011-04-25 04:56:18 <max__> nothing bitcoin related is running
667 2011-04-25 04:56:43 <max__> what do you want me to run? bitcoind ? bitcoin ?
668 2011-04-25 04:56:52 <dfc> max what are you running the standard bitcoin client?
669 2011-04-25 04:57:12 <dfc> or garziks pushpool?
670 2011-04-25 04:57:14 <max__> i just closed all the bitcoins related stuff
671 2011-04-25 04:57:14 <max__> dfc im not running anything yet
672 2011-04-25 04:57:22 <max__> i have both
673 2011-04-25 04:57:23 <dfc> dude we know
674 2011-04-25 04:57:29 <dfc> what are you trying to run
675 2011-04-25 04:57:29 <max__> i have the pushpool stuff
676 2011-04-25 04:57:36 <doublec> max__: what about netstat -an |grep 8333
677 2011-04-25 04:57:37 <max__> i have the blkmonitor
678 2011-04-25 04:57:40 <dfc> pushpool is running?
679 2011-04-25 04:57:40 <max__> that comes with pushpoold
680 2011-04-25 04:57:44 <max__> nopes
681 2011-04-25 04:58:02 <dfc> what OS?
682 2011-04-25 04:58:04 <doublec> umm, those netstat commands are useless if you're not running bitcoin btw
683 2011-04-25 04:58:09 <doublec> we're assumming you're running it
684 2011-04-25 04:58:20 <max__> i just need to run bitcoin and open port 8332 and port 8333 in some way
685 2011-04-25 04:58:20 <max__> its linux
686 2011-04-25 04:58:27 <max__> okay, what do you want me to run?
687 2011-04-25 04:58:28 <doublec> so run bitcoind
688 2011-04-25 04:58:29 <max__> bitcoind ?
689 2011-04-25 04:58:31 <max__> okay
690 2011-04-25 04:58:31 <doublec> no arguments
691 2011-04-25 04:58:32 <max__> let me try
692 2011-04-25 04:58:34 <max__> ok
693 2011-04-25 04:58:35 amiller has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
694 2011-04-25 04:58:41 <doublec> then do: netstat -an |grep 8333
695 2011-04-25 04:58:45 <doublec> after 10 seconds or so
696 2011-04-25 04:59:19 <dfc> max this is the dev channel try #bitcoin
697 2011-04-25 04:59:25 amiller has joined
698 2011-04-25 04:59:46 <max__> dfc: yes it have me a few 8333 connections open
699 2011-04-25 04:59:46 <max__> now?
700 2011-04-25 05:00:05 <Compgenius> dfc, he'll have no luck in there, it's a bit dead in there atm
701 2011-04-25 05:00:20 <max__> im just running all this stuff to learn how bitcoin works to be able to become dev np
702 2011-04-25 05:00:43 <dfc> why do you want to run pushpool?
703 2011-04-25 05:00:52 <max__> so port 8333 is open yes, netstat gives me a few connections
704 2011-04-25 05:00:52 <max__> now?
705 2011-04-25 05:00:57 <max__> i want to become pushpool developer too
706 2011-04-25 05:01:03 <max__> i want to understand how everything works
707 2011-04-25 05:01:12 xxxxxxx is now known as xxxxxxx`brb
708 2011-04-25 05:01:15 <max__> but first i need to have this working
709 2011-04-25 05:01:21 <max__> to be able to perform the testing
710 2011-04-25 05:01:26 <max__> after i code
711 2011-04-25 05:01:32 <max__> and modify the programs
712 2011-04-25 05:01:50 <dfc> if you dont know how to run netstat dont you think the coding is going to be a problem?
713 2011-04-25 05:02:11 <doublec> max__: there we go - you have successfully run it with port 8333 available
714 2011-04-25 05:02:19 <max__> i ran the netstat
715 2011-04-25 05:02:19 <max__> i already told you
716 2011-04-25 05:02:20 <max__> in netsta both ports seems to be open
717 2011-04-25 05:02:22 <max__> 8333 and 8332
718 2011-04-25 05:02:45 <doublec> max__: so what's your issue? You asked how to run bitcoins with 8333 and 8332 open
719 2011-04-25 05:02:47 lumos has joined
720 2011-04-25 05:02:49 <doublec> max__: you have. problem solved.
721 2011-04-25 05:02:55 <doublec> max__: and you're welcome
722 2011-04-25 05:02:58 <dfc> what does netstat -an |grep 833 |grep LISTEN say
723 2011-04-25 05:03:16 <max__> yes however when i telnet localhost 8333 and localhost 8332
724 2011-04-25 05:03:16 <max__> it just works for 8332
725 2011-04-25 05:03:26 <max__> it says..
726 2011-04-25 05:03:26 <doublec> define 'works'
727 2011-04-25 05:03:26 <dfc> just works?
728 2011-04-25 05:03:32 <doublec> what does telnet to 8333 do
729 2011-04-25 05:03:41 <dfc> dude telnet to google.com 443
730 2011-04-25 05:03:47 <dfc> does that work?
731 2011-04-25 05:03:51 <max__> dhcppc2:~/.bitcoin # netstat -an |grep 833 | grep LISTEN tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:8332 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN
732 2011-04-25 05:04:02 <dfc> okay
733 2011-04-25 05:04:15 <dfc> so you are only listening on 8332
734 2011-04-25 05:04:19 redengin has joined
735 2011-04-25 05:04:26 <dfc> anything you saw for 8333 was outbound
736 2011-04-25 05:05:02 <max__> 8333 has the IP 192.168.0.2
737 2011-04-25 05:05:02 <max__> however
738 2011-04-25 05:05:02 <max__> 8332 has 127.0.0.1
739 2011-04-25 05:05:09 <max__> i think that might be the problem
740 2011-04-25 05:05:15 <dfc> so why was it not in the past above?
741 2011-04-25 05:05:21 <max__> i was expecting 8333 to be listening on 127.0.0.1
742 2011-04-25 05:05:36 <Kiba> hmm
743 2011-04-25 05:05:45 <max__> thats why telnet doesnt work
744 2011-04-25 05:05:48 <dfc> you are on your own i have stuff to do
745 2011-04-25 05:05:56 <max__> ok
746 2011-04-25 05:05:59 <max__> hxs
747 2011-04-25 05:06:01 <max__> thxs
748 2011-04-25 05:06:45 <max__> weird connection refused to 8333
749 2011-04-25 05:07:01 gjs278 has joined
750 2011-04-25 05:08:21 <max__> dfc you were right those are just outbound
751 2011-04-25 05:08:21 <max__> dfc its not liseting on 8333
752 2011-04-25 05:08:21 <max__> i dont know why
753 2011-04-25 05:10:00 <max__> does anyone know how i can open port 8333
754 2011-04-25 05:10:08 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
755 2011-04-25 05:10:11 <gjs278> your router
756 2011-04-25 05:10:13 <gjs278> or upnp
757 2011-04-25 05:10:17 <max__> no i mean
758 2011-04-25 05:10:25 <max__> when i open bitcoin
759 2011-04-25 05:10:34 <max__> i want it to start listesting on port 8333
760 2011-04-25 05:10:38 <gjs278> oh
761 2011-04-25 05:10:39 <max__> but im not able to do it yet
762 2011-04-25 05:10:40 <gjs278> instead of 8332
763 2011-04-25 05:10:46 <max__> no, i want both
764 2011-04-25 05:10:50 <gjs278> well
765 2011-04-25 05:10:52 <max__> i need 8332 for json
766 2011-04-25 05:11:12 <max__> and 8333 for bitcoin port network
767 2011-04-25 05:11:15 <gjs278> I don't think you can do both ports with one bitcoin app
768 2011-04-25 05:11:40 <max__> so how can i do both ports?
769 2011-04-25 05:11:40 <max__> i dont mind to open two apps
770 2011-04-25 05:12:06 <gjs278> I really don't see any setting for this 8333 that you want to open
771 2011-04-25 05:12:17 <gjs278> what does it use by default for you
772 2011-04-25 05:12:29 <max__> i know that ports 8332 is open when i open bitcoind
773 2011-04-25 05:12:29 <max__> however im not able to open 8333
774 2011-04-25 05:12:34 <max__> i know how to open 8333 on my win machine
775 2011-04-25 05:12:39 <max__> i just open the standard bitcoin client
776 2011-04-25 05:12:42 <max__> and thats all
777 2011-04-25 05:12:45 <max__> but on linux
778 2011-04-25 05:12:46 <max__> it doesnt
779 2011-04-25 05:13:03 xxxxxxx`brb is now known as xxxxxxx
780 2011-04-25 05:13:18 <gjs278> yeah I have no idea
781 2011-04-25 05:16:23 <doublec> max__: do you have multiple network adapters on your linux machine?
782 2011-04-25 05:16:50 <max__> nopes
783 2011-04-25 05:16:59 <max__> its a vmware virtual machine btw
784 2011-04-25 05:17:25 <max__> on windows
785 2011-04-25 05:17:25 <max__> if i open
786 2011-04-25 05:17:25 <max__> it opens port 8333
787 2011-04-25 05:17:25 <max__> the regular bitcoin client
788 2011-04-25 05:17:27 <max__> and i can telnet to it
789 2011-04-25 05:17:33 <max__> however in linux
790 2011-04-25 05:17:36 <max__> i dont know how to do that
791 2011-04-25 05:18:02 <doublec> in linux for me it runs on port 8333 too
792 2011-04-25 05:18:04 <max__> when i telnet to port 8333 in win it tells me something like "version"
793 2011-04-25 05:18:11 <doublec> just by opening the regular client
794 2011-04-25 05:18:22 <doublec> so you'll have to debug the issue of why it's not working for you yourself I'm afraid
795 2011-04-25 05:18:44 <doublec> or, give me an account on your machine to ssh into and I'll take a look
796 2011-04-25 05:19:06 <max__> do you ahve rpcusername and rpcpassword on bitcoind.conf?
797 2011-04-25 05:19:06 <max__> im sorry i cant give access
798 2011-04-25 05:20:14 <dotblank> why don't you netstat it?
799 2011-04-25 05:20:29 <dotblank> you can use that or lsof
800 2011-04-25 05:20:51 <max__> ok
801 2011-04-25 05:21:02 <dotblank> you could then attach strace to the process running lsof and dump the output to get an idea of what really going on
802 2011-04-25 05:22:20 <dotblank> oh wow.. looking at the scroolback it seems youve done that
803 2011-04-25 05:27:18 max__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
804 2011-04-25 05:30:37 Androgynous has joined
805 2011-04-25 05:32:58 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
806 2011-04-25 05:33:45 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
807 2011-04-25 05:35:00 Androgynous has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
808 2011-04-25 05:38:54 lumos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
809 2011-04-25 05:40:36 phantomcircuit_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
810 2011-04-25 05:45:28 Netsniper has quit (Excess Flood)
811 2011-04-25 05:45:54 Netsniper has joined
812 2011-04-25 05:46:13 B0g4r7 has joined
813 2011-04-25 05:55:22 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
814 2011-04-25 05:55:28 dotblank has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
815 2011-04-25 05:58:11 has joined
816 2011-04-25 06:00:04 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
817 2011-04-25 06:03:00 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-251-237-187.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
818 2011-04-25 06:04:28 ForceDestroyer has joined
819 2011-04-25 06:08:11 Kicchiri has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
820 2011-04-25 06:16:15 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
821 2011-04-25 06:23:42 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
822 2011-04-25 06:26:37 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
823 2011-04-25 06:34:17 bitcoinbulletin has joined
824 2011-04-25 06:37:00 dbitcoin has joined
825 2011-04-25 06:46:07 dfc has quit (Quit: leaving)
826 2011-04-25 06:49:21 wolfspraul has joined
827 2011-04-25 06:59:24 zyb has joined
828 2011-04-25 07:00:45 has joined
829 2011-04-25 07:03:41 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
830 2011-04-25 07:05:11 dfc has joined
831 2011-04-25 07:07:16 _Netsniper_ has joined
832 2011-04-25 07:07:18 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
833 2011-04-25 07:09:55 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
834 2011-04-25 07:10:11 has quit (Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-251-239-218.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
835 2011-04-25 07:14:09 dbitcoin has joined
836 2011-04-25 07:17:13 _Netsniper_ is now known as Netsniper
837 2011-04-25 07:26:25 Incitatus has joined
838 2011-04-25 07:26:43 RazielZ has quit ()
839 2011-04-25 07:31:02 Compgenius has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
840 2011-04-25 07:31:22 BERRI has quit (Excess Flood)
841 2011-04-25 07:32:25 Compgenius has joined
842 2011-04-25 07:33:43 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
843 2011-04-25 07:34:01 BERRI has joined
844 2011-04-25 07:36:02 dfc has quit (Quit: leaving)
845 2011-04-25 07:36:31 mbarkhau has quit (Quit: Page closed)
846 2011-04-25 07:36:36 sethsethseth____ has joined
847 2011-04-25 07:37:48 f3ndot has quit ()
848 2011-04-25 07:39:13 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
849 2011-04-25 07:40:21 sethsethseth has joined
850 2011-04-25 07:40:48 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
851 2011-04-25 07:42:05 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
852 2011-04-25 07:43:57 Marcel has joined
853 2011-04-25 07:44:53 dfc has joined
854 2011-04-25 07:46:27 echelon has joined
855 2011-04-25 07:47:31 BERRI has quit (Excess Flood)
856 2011-04-25 07:48:16 <BurtyB> mornin
857 2011-04-25 07:50:31 BERRI has joined
858 2011-04-25 07:52:35 joepie92 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
859 2011-04-25 07:57:48 wereHamster has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
860 2011-04-25 08:01:19 Greek_o_nikos has joined
861 2011-04-25 08:03:12 gjs278 has joined
862 2011-04-25 08:05:01 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
863 2011-04-25 08:08:35 dissipate has joined
864 2011-04-25 08:08:40 <sacarlson> I would like to add this checkpoint on my proto chain block chain // Check that the block chain matches the known block chain up to a checkpoint , how are these numbers calculated or how can it be seen?
865 2011-04-25 08:09:32 <topi`> somebody's written a working paper called "Bitcoin - an innovative alternate digital currency"
866 2011-04-25 08:09:48 <ArtForz> look at how the main client does it
867 2011-04-25 08:10:00 <topi`> it's a very interesting read. the author is actually attempting to profile a few groups of users who find Bitcoin interesting
868 2011-04-25 08:10:15 <topi`> like the ones who right now prefer gold as a medium of sacings
869 2011-04-25 08:10:16 <topi`> savings
870 2011-04-25 08:10:20 <ArtForz> basically just take the block hash at height n and hardcode a comparison to it
871 2011-04-25 08:12:29 <sacarlson> ArtForz: I see the lines of how it does the check but not sure where the numbers they compare with how they are calculated
872 2011-04-25 08:12:44 <ArtForz> notice the numbers start with a bunch of zeros?
873 2011-04-25 08:12:53 <sacarlson> ArtForz: yes
874 2011-04-25 08:12:55 <ArtForz> it's sha256(sha256(block header))
875 2011-04-25 08:13:08 <ArtForz> yep, the same thing thats compared against target
876 2011-04-25 08:13:18 <ArtForz> aka the block header hash
877 2011-04-25 08:13:43 <ArtForz> and height is ... well... height
878 2011-04-25 08:14:29 <ArtForz> iirc genesis is height 0
879 2011-04-25 08:15:19 henchan has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
880 2011-04-25 08:16:18 <sacarlson> ArtForz: ok I have data from one of my last mined numbers it has a new proof-of-work found
881 2011-04-25 08:16:19 <sacarlson> hash: 00000001e61dc07215962284a784faefa0f422171240a5a66dee439d5997d757 for block 14 so I can just sha256(00...1e61...) and put that number as seen in main
882 2011-04-25 08:16:31 <ArtForz> no
883 2011-04-25 08:16:41 <ArtForz> err... yes
884 2011-04-25 08:17:00 <sacarlson> ArtForz: ok can't hurt to try that thanks
885 2011-04-25 08:17:00 <ArtForz> wait
886 2011-04-25 08:17:04 <sacarlson> ?
887 2011-04-25 08:17:09 <ArtForz> thats already the block hash, isn't it ?
888 2011-04-25 08:17:23 <sacarlson> ArtForz: I guess
889 2011-04-25 08:17:25 <ArtForz> so just plug that in with a 0x in front
890 2011-04-25 08:18:05 <ArtForz> so if (nHeight == 14 && hash != uint256("0x00000001e61dc...")
891 2011-04-25 08:18:37 <sacarlson> oh ya so just copy that number with the compare if ((nHeight == 14 && hash != uint256("0x0000000069e244f73d78e8fd29ba2fd2ed618bd6fa2ee92559f542fdb26e7c1d") of that number found in that minned block
892 2011-04-25 08:18:57 autotron has joined
893 2011-04-25 08:19:02 <sacarlson> ya ok
894 2011-04-25 08:19:09 <sacarlson> ArtForz: ok time to try it
895 2011-04-25 08:29:02 <genjix> phantomcircuit: yo
896 2011-04-25 08:36:34 <topi`> "However, either the developers or a 'convincing coalition' could probably exercise discretionary authority to change the inflation rate." writes Reuben Grinberg
897 2011-04-25 08:36:40 AmpEater has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
898 2011-04-25 08:36:53 <topi`> who are the developers? it's an open source project so ANYONE can be "the developer".
899 2011-04-25 08:37:12 AmpEater has joined
900 2011-04-25 08:38:22 TheAncientGoat has joined
901 2011-04-25 08:39:06 <roconnor> topi`: in this case I think the developers are whoever has access to the code for the bitcoin client that appears on the bitcoin webpage that everyone uses.
902 2011-04-25 08:39:46 autotron has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
903 2011-04-25 08:40:31 autotron has joined
904 2011-04-25 08:45:20 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
905 2011-04-25 08:45:20 joepie92 has joined
906 2011-04-25 08:47:54 <topi`> in that case we need to decentralize the bitcoin webpage :)
907 2011-04-25 08:48:04 <topi`> create plenty of competing clients, and offer all of them at random :)
908 2011-04-25 08:52:10 <genjix> topi`: or maybe the main page should link to several clients (spesmilo, bitcoinj, ...)
909 2011-04-25 08:54:21 <theorbtwo> roconnor: Really, the most reasonable "convincing coalition" would be the two biggest pool operators.
910 2011-04-25 08:54:41 pirrr has joined
911 2011-04-25 08:54:51 <topi`> so, we need more pools
912 2011-04-25 08:55:06 <roconnor> theorbtwo: in this case I think you need to get the peers on board, not just the miners.
913 2011-04-25 08:55:45 <topi`> the miners can spew whatever 100btc rewards for their blocks, but it won't work as long as the peers (non-miners) do not accept those blocks...
914 2011-04-25 08:56:35 <theorbtwo> Ah, but the other miners who are in on it will accept those blocks, so they will become part of the longest chain.
915 2011-04-25 08:56:56 <theorbtwo> Also, lowering the inflation seems to be easier then raising it, possibly.
916 2011-04-25 08:59:23 <roconnor> theorbtwo: they will have the largest nonsenical chain, and no one will care about it
917 2011-04-25 08:59:52 <roconnor> the rest of the network will accept the blocks generated by the other miners instead, even if the chain is shorter
918 2011-04-25 09:00:18 <theorbtwo> Ah, I see what you mean.
919 2011-04-25 09:00:37 <theorbtwo> Lowering inflation seems easier then raising it.
920 2011-04-25 09:01:13 <theorbtwo> As controller of most of the mining power, do not build chains on top of blocks you don't like.
921 2011-04-25 09:01:15 <roconnor> Yes. I was told that current clients will accept blocks that produce too little bitcoins.
922 2011-04-25 09:01:42 <theorbtwo> Oh. That's even worse.
923 2011-04-25 09:02:18 <roconnor> I don't think miners have much incentive to procude fewer bitcoins than they are allowed
924 2011-04-25 09:03:18 <sacarlson> ArtForz: thanks that check seems to have worked on my first try thanks for your help
925 2011-04-25 09:04:52 <roconnor> theorbtwo: still, lowering the bitcoin rate would be hard. As soon as one person submits a coin at the old rate all the old clients will accept it, but the new ones won't. The you will have a "net split"
926 2011-04-25 09:06:03 <ArtForz> yep, miners can produce blocks with less generation than allowed
927 2011-04-25 09:06:26 <ArtForz> CBlock::ConnectBlock
928 2011-04-25 09:06:27 <ArtForz> if (vtx[0].GetValueOut() > GetBlockValue(pindex->nHeight, nFees))
929 2011-04-25 09:06:27 <ArtForz> return false;
930 2011-04-25 09:06:55 <ArtForz> notice that's a >, not a !=
931 2011-04-25 09:07:52 <ArtForz> but why on earth would they do that?
932 2011-04-25 09:08:37 <ArtForz> theres no economic incentive for a miner to "throw away" generation or fees
933 2011-04-25 09:09:03 <genjix> that's like your grandma giving you free money and you throw it back in her face
934 2011-04-25 09:09:42 <genjix> ;;bc,mtgox
935 2011-04-25 09:09:43 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.747,"low":1.596,"vol":14224,"buy":1.596,"sell":1.609,"last":1.596}}
936 2011-04-25 09:11:12 <sacarlson> I guess what I see now is when I have setup fee's on the only minner on my net that my client only pays if he sends more than one transaction in on minned block time
937 2011-04-25 09:11:37 <sacarlson> on = one
938 2011-04-25 09:11:42 <sipa> roconnor: how many solutions exists at most when recovering pubkeys?
939 2011-04-25 09:12:28 <genjix> c++0x is pretty sweet
940 2011-04-25 09:12:34 <sacarlson> so I can send a free transaction every 10 minits?
941 2011-04-25 09:12:35 <roconnor> sipa: I'm well convinced it can be upto 4 in rare cases (around 1 in 10^39).
942 2011-04-25 09:12:37 <topi`> mtgox seems to be stabilizing a bit after the 2-day rally
943 2011-04-25 09:12:47 <genjix> topi`: not at all
944 2011-04-25 09:12:55 <roconnor> sipa: I have some examples where 4 public keys verify the same signature
945 2011-04-25 09:13:02 <genjix> someone bought a ton hence the low volume now and massive spread
946 2011-04-25 09:13:16 <roconnor> sipa: most of the time it is 2 or 0 keys.
947 2011-04-25 09:14:09 <sacarlson> genjix: cool I sold at my 1.23usd per btc and now have a buy back in at 0.98usd for 1 btc
948 2011-04-25 09:15:02 <sipa> roconnor: imagine we'd add a key-recovery-identifier, a number between 0 and 3, that tells you which one it
949 2011-04-25 09:15:18 <sipa> roconnor: would it be easy to calculate that number when generating the key?
950 2011-04-25 09:15:30 patapper has left ()
951 2011-04-25 09:17:38 <roconnor> sipa: I don't think so. The number might change depending on the signature I think.
952 2011-04-25 09:17:55 <sipa> oh right, and when signing?
953 2011-04-25 09:18:27 <roconnor> sipa: after you sign a key you can run key recovery on it and see which key is yours
954 2011-04-25 09:18:34 <sipa> of course
955 2011-04-25 09:18:43 <sipa> but i want to know whether it is easier than that :)
956 2011-04-25 09:19:03 <sipa> my idea is this: add an OP_GETPUBKEY script opcode that takes a 2-bit number as input, and puts on the stack the generated pubkey
957 2011-04-25 09:19:20 <sipa> this key could then be hashes and verified against an address
958 2011-04-25 09:19:24 <roconnor> sipa: Though I think I still perfer the idea of a super operation that checks all 4 keys to see which one matches the public Key hash.
959 2011-04-25 09:19:24 <sipa> *hashed
960 2011-04-25 09:19:42 <sipa> using the existing mechanism
961 2011-04-25 09:19:46 <roconnor> oh
962 2011-04-25 09:19:57 * roconnor reads sipa's idea
963 2011-04-25 09:20:14 <sipa> an OP_CHECKALL that takes an address would be nice too, but is computationally harder and less flexible
964 2011-04-25 09:21:26 <roconnor> sipa: so a sigScript would have the signature plus another byte (2-bits) pushed onto the stack?
965 2011-04-25 09:21:49 <sipa> yes
966 2011-04-25 09:21:52 <roconnor> sipa: then a new op to take that signature, and byte and transform it into a signature and pubkey
967 2011-04-25 09:22:05 <roconnor> sipa: then the rest of the verification script proceeds as usual
968 2011-04-25 09:22:10 <sipa> yup
969 2011-04-25 09:22:33 autotron has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
970 2011-04-25 09:22:56 <roconnor> sipa: signatures will be a byte longer than having just plain signatures :D
971 2011-04-25 09:25:26 <roconnor> If you really want to squeeze it, there might be some room in the hashtype footer in the signature. ... not that I'd really recommend that route.
972 2011-04-25 09:27:44 MartianW has joined
973 2011-04-25 09:28:54 FabianB has joined
974 2011-04-25 09:29:36 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
975 2011-04-25 09:34:50 <roconnor> sipa: but as I think TD noted, if you are going to add new scripting operations, it might be better to go all the way and implement a completely new OP_CHECKSIG2 that works on more compressed representations of everything, or at least operations that transforms a more compressed representation of signatures into the current representation.
976 2011-04-25 09:35:07 <roconnor> ie. it is better to add all the missing functionaly we want in one go rather than slowly over time.
977 2011-04-25 09:40:36 TD has joined
978 2011-04-25 09:43:55 wereHamster has joined
979 2011-04-25 09:47:00 <roconnor> Have any alerts every been sent?
980 2011-04-25 09:47:08 <roconnor> can I replay alerts whenever I want to?
981 2011-04-25 09:48:13 <Greek_o_nikos> "who are the developers? it's an open source project so ANYONE can be "the developer"." << and if a developer signs their contribution with digital signature, then the "who" goes to their public key.
982 2011-04-25 09:49:03 <TD> i don't think an alert was ever sent
983 2011-04-25 09:49:26 <TD> i believe a "replay" is almost by definition possible as alerts are broadcast
984 2011-04-25 09:49:36 <TD> i don't remember if they have a time limit on them
985 2011-04-25 09:49:53 <roconnor> the wiki doesn't give any indication that the alerts have a timestamp
986 2011-04-25 09:50:09 <TD> ah yes they do
987 2011-04-25 09:50:15 <TD> look at CUnsignedAlert
988 2011-04-25 09:50:23 <TD> int64 nRelayUntil;
989 2011-04-25 09:50:30 <TD> int64 nExpiration;
990 2011-04-25 09:51:25 Diablo-D3 has joined
991 2011-04-25 09:51:52 <roconnor> I don't look at source code. I'm in an isolated development environment. Any notes have to go via the wiki :D
992 2011-04-25 09:52:00 <roconnor> ... actually I cheat a lot
993 2011-04-25 09:55:19 <TD> heh
994 2011-04-25 09:55:27 <TD> i'd not worry about the alerts for now
995 2011-04-25 09:55:37 danlucraft has joined
996 2011-04-25 09:56:09 <sipa> roconnor, TD: which other changes would you propose if you're going to add a new opcode anyway?
997 2011-04-25 09:56:29 <TD> i would suggest trying to condense the whole of the scriptPubKey down into one opcode to save a few more bytes
998 2011-04-25 09:56:32 <roconnor> sipa: get rid of the DER cruft in signatures
999 2011-04-25 09:56:52 <sipa> in a signature, the DER overhead is 1 byte only
1000 2011-04-25 09:57:02 <roconnor> sipa: the overhead in DER is 6-8 bytes
1001 2011-04-25 09:57:09 <sipa> oh sorry
1002 2011-04-25 09:57:15 <sipa> in pubkeys it's one byte
1003 2011-04-25 09:57:18 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,blocks
1004 2011-04-25 09:57:19 <gribble> 120073
1005 2011-04-25 09:57:19 <TD> i don't know. as it'd be quite a long time before it could be safely switched on, i guess creating a list of backwards incompatible wishlist changes would be a good idea
1006 2011-04-25 09:57:20 <sipa> in signatures it's more indeed
1007 2011-04-25 09:57:29 <roconnor> sipa: the pubkey stuff isn't DER
1008 2011-04-25 09:57:47 <roconnor> sipa: it is the standard encoding for public keys given by sec 1
1009 2011-04-25 09:57:56 <sipa> ah, that explains
1010 2011-04-25 09:58:06 <sipa> but indeed, i would get rid of the DER encoding
1011 2011-04-25 09:58:15 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1012 2011-04-25 09:59:18 <roconnor> how were the tests on using compressed public keys on unpatched clienents?
1013 2011-04-25 09:59:52 <sipa> unsuccesfull so far, and i fear it may be hard
1014 2011-04-25 10:00:05 <roconnor> oh really :(
1015 2011-04-25 10:00:10 <roconnor> I was so optimistic
1016 2011-04-25 10:00:14 <sipa> since the signature uses a hash of the tx with the signature itself being erased
1017 2011-04-25 10:00:53 <sipa> this changes when we're using different pubkeys
1018 2011-04-25 10:01:02 <roconnor> I don't see why
1019 2011-04-25 10:01:25 <TD> oh, i see
1020 2011-04-25 10:01:31 <TD> it reserializes the signature into uncompressed form
1021 2011-04-25 10:01:32 <sipa> actually... i don't see it anymore
1022 2011-04-25 10:01:53 <sipa> since that pubkey is not part of the tx itself, it's part of the tx that will consume it
1023 2011-04-25 10:01:59 <roconnor> it is the public keys that are compressed/uncompressed not the signatures
1024 2011-04-25 10:02:31 <sipa> maybe still worth a shot
1025 2011-04-25 10:02:34 <TD> right, sorry
1026 2011-04-25 10:03:53 jaromil has joined
1027 2011-04-25 10:06:30 <roconnor> TD: in a coinbase output, must the index be -1 or is the index just ignored?
1028 2011-04-25 10:06:32 henchan has joined
1029 2011-04-25 10:06:36 <roconnor> s/output/outpoint/
1030 2011-04-25 10:07:21 <sipa> it must be -1
1031 2011-04-25 10:07:28 BlueMatt has joined
1032 2011-04-25 10:07:29 <sipa> oh wait
1033 2011-04-25 10:07:47 <BlueMatt> jaromil: ping
1034 2011-04-25 10:07:54 <sipa> when consuming a generated coin, you must refer to it using hash=0 n=-1
1035 2011-04-25 10:08:05 <sipa> eh nvm
1036 2011-04-25 10:08:24 <TD> hmm?
1037 2011-04-25 10:08:41 <TD> i don't know. i don't recall seeing any special rules for consuming coinbase transactions
1038 2011-04-25 10:08:48 <sipa> i'm wrong
1039 2011-04-25 10:08:56 <TD> other than their invalid input and being in position zero, i think they are treated like normal txns
1040 2011-04-25 10:09:22 <roconnor> I guess my question is more like, what is the defintion of a coinbase? one in which the hash is 0, or one in which the hash is 0 and the index is -1?
1041 2011-04-25 10:09:57 <roconnor> or is the first item of a tx list the coinbase no matter what the hash is.
1042 2011-04-25 10:09:58 <sipa> a coinbase tx, is a transaction with 1 input, whose prevout is hash=0 and n=-1
1043 2011-04-25 10:10:17 <roconnor> sipa: see, I don't think that is what the client code does...
1044 2011-04-25 10:10:26 <sipa> see CTransaction::IsCoinBase() in main.h
1045 2011-04-25 10:10:41 <roconnor> I find C code difficult to read
1046 2011-04-25 10:10:55 jedi95 has joined
1047 2011-04-25 10:10:56 <roconnor> without a good understanding of the context
1048 2011-04-25 10:11:01 <jaromil> hi BlueMatt
1049 2011-04-25 10:11:01 <sipa> and COutPoint::IsNull() as well
1050 2011-04-25 10:11:03 <TD> the hash of a coinbase tx is not zero
1051 2011-04-25 10:11:15 <jaromil> just passing on the fly, my batt almost died and my irc shell too
1052 2011-04-25 10:11:17 <jaromil> http://bitcoin.dyne.org/coverage/
1053 2011-04-25 10:11:17 <roconnor> TD: the hash in the output position is zero
1054 2011-04-25 10:11:17 <TD> the hash of the input connection is zero
1055 2011-04-25 10:11:22 <jaromil> something i've done yesterday
1056 2011-04-25 10:11:24 <TD> right
1057 2011-04-25 10:11:27 <roconnor> s/output/outpoint/
1058 2011-04-25 10:11:30 <jaromil> is a gcov / lcov survey of bitcoin code
1059 2011-04-25 10:11:33 <roconnor> TD: and the index?
1060 2011-04-25 10:11:38 <roconnor> of the outpoint
1061 2011-04-25 10:11:38 <BlueMatt> jaromil: ok, just checking out the autotools stuff...
1062 2011-04-25 10:11:41 <sipa> roconnor: the index must be -1
1063 2011-04-25 10:11:41 <jaromil> running on my account, includes initial startup
1064 2011-04-25 10:11:47 <roconnor> sipa: must?
1065 2011-04-25 10:11:55 <jaromil> interesting for code overview
1066 2011-04-25 10:11:58 <sipa> otherwise COutPoint::IsNull() will fail, and CTransaction::IsCoinBase() as well
1067 2011-04-25 10:12:09 <BlueMatt> jaromil: shouldnt output be not in src but in some other dir after make?
1068 2011-04-25 10:12:10 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i shouldn't have mentioned distcheck , now i see there is a problem
1069 2011-04-25 10:12:18 <jaromil> BlueMatt: it can, but usually isn't
1070 2011-04-25 10:12:25 <jaromil> however all these things are configurable
1071 2011-04-25 10:12:32 <roconnor> sipa TD: I don't recall seeing such a -1 check in bitcoinJ
1072 2011-04-25 10:12:40 * jaromil 5% batt capacity
1073 2011-04-25 10:12:41 <BlueMatt> really? every program Ive ever seen builds a directory tree as if it were installed after make
1074 2011-04-25 10:12:44 <jaromil> enjoy lcov! :D
1075 2011-04-25 10:12:53 <BlueMatt> ie bin/ include/ etc
1076 2011-04-25 10:13:08 <BlueMatt> jaromil: also, have you tried it on win32?
1077 2011-04-25 10:13:38 <sipa> currently, a typical spend-to-address scriptPubKey is OP_DUP OP_HASH160 <address> OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG... using my proposal that would become OP_GENPUBKEY OP_HASH160 <address>> OP_EQUALVERIFY
1078 2011-04-25 10:13:45 <TD> roconnor: well, bitcoinj is incomplete. its isCoinBase check just verifies the input hash is null
1079 2011-04-25 10:13:48 <jaromil> phew found connector
1080 2011-04-25 10:13:58 <TD> i don't know if it matters about the index
1081 2011-04-25 10:14:01 <jaromil> BlueMatt: only with cygwin. needs testing on win32 definitely
1082 2011-04-25 10:14:13 <BlueMatt> ah
1083 2011-04-25 10:14:14 <jaromil> however the old build system is still in place
1084 2011-04-25 10:14:19 <BlueMatt> ok
1085 2011-04-25 10:14:23 <TD> sipa: but there will be several pubkeys right? why not just have a single opcode that does everything. <sig> <address> OP_VERIFYSPEND
1086 2011-04-25 10:14:33 <jaromil> and it should work, at least autotools is usually very portable, that's why its used
1087 2011-04-25 10:14:34 <BlueMatt> well, Ill probably go test it on mingw sometime then
1088 2011-04-25 10:14:43 <sipa> TD: the sig is not part of the pubkey script
1089 2011-04-25 10:14:48 <BlueMatt> jaromil: also, could you look at xcompiling support
1090 2011-04-25 10:14:49 <jaromil> however knowing some other codebases and experiences i know cmake is better for win
1091 2011-04-25 10:14:51 <sipa> so just <address> OP_VERIFYSPEND
1092 2011-04-25 10:14:53 <jaromil> because m4 is sloooow
1093 2011-04-25 10:15:07 <roconnor> TD: I think that if someone makes a bitcoin with an non-negative1 index for the coinbase, bitcoinj will accept it but bitcoin will not.
1094 2011-04-25 10:15:07 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/tree/crosscompile
1095 2011-04-25 10:15:20 <jaromil> BlueMatt: in autotools xcompiling is done with --host=
1096 2011-04-25 10:15:21 <roconnor> sipa: thanks for the pointer
1097 2011-04-25 10:15:22 <BlueMatt> it compiles via mingw on linux, and Id like to be able to specify that for configure
1098 2011-04-25 10:15:27 <jaromil> oh wow
1099 2011-04-25 10:15:31 <jaromil> ok see --host=
1100 2011-04-25 10:15:32 <TD> bitcoinj implements SPV. that means it accepts blocks that verify as part of the block chain
1101 2011-04-25 10:15:34 <jaromil> maybe it works!
1102 2011-04-25 10:15:40 <TD> it doesn't check the contents of the blocks beyond a few simple sanity checks
1103 2011-04-25 10:15:45 <BlueMatt> jaromil: ok, thanks, Ill go do some testing and see what happens
1104 2011-04-25 10:15:47 <jaromil> i use autotools for xcompiling mipsel stuff usually
1105 2011-04-25 10:15:53 <TD> it can't verify the tx inputs anyway because it doesn't store all transactions in the block chain
1106 2011-04-25 10:15:54 <roconnor> TD: oh, what is SPV?
1107 2011-04-25 10:15:58 <jaromil> for that i do ./configure --host=mipsel-linux-gnu
1108 2011-04-25 10:15:59 <roconnor> something in the whitepaper?
1109 2011-04-25 10:16:03 <TD> see satoshis paper
1110 2011-04-25 10:16:06 * BlueMatt doesnt know much about autotools
1111 2011-04-25 10:16:11 <TD> simplified payment verification
1112 2011-04-25 10:16:15 <jaromil> and it just ends up using gcc-mipse-linux-gnu compilers in path
1113 2011-04-25 10:16:58 <roconnor> TD: if it doesn't verify transactions fully, then it can be spoofed?
1114 2011-04-25 10:17:28 <TD> as stated in the pape, it will believe anything for as long as an attacker dominates the network (controls >50% of hash power), in ways a full implemenation cannot be fooled
1115 2011-04-25 10:17:35 <TD> the benefit is much lower resource usage and simpler code
1116 2011-04-25 10:19:05 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1117 2011-04-25 10:19:13 devon_hillard has joined
1118 2011-04-25 10:19:13 devon_hillard has quit (Changing host)
1119 2011-04-25 10:19:13 devon_hillard has joined
1120 2011-04-25 10:19:24 <roconnor> Oh I see. You rely on confirmations from the network
1121 2011-04-25 10:19:49 <TD> yes
1122 2011-04-25 10:20:08 <TD> once the attacker stops hashing, the correct/valid chain will catch up and become the longest chain again
1123 2011-04-25 10:20:22 <TD> at that point SPV impls will switch to that chain and everything will sort itself out
1124 2011-04-25 10:20:26 <TD> that's the code i'm writing at the moment, actually
1125 2011-04-25 10:21:02 shawn-p has joined
1126 2011-04-25 10:21:37 <roconnor> given a transaction how do you find which block it has been incorporated into?
1127 2011-04-25 10:22:26 <TD> you can't do that in SPV mode because you don't store all transactions. but you don't have to.
1128 2011-04-25 10:22:34 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1129 2011-04-25 10:22:58 <TD> currently to discover new transactions you have to download full blocks, if that's what you're asking
1130 2011-04-25 10:23:05 <roconnor> the SPV section says "... and obtain the Merkle branch linking the transaction to the block it's timestamped in."
1131 2011-04-25 10:23:46 <TD> yes, it anticipated protocol features that were never implemented
1132 2011-04-25 10:24:08 <TD> in the long term if bitcoin continues to scale up, a getmerklebranch command can be added
1133 2011-04-25 10:24:12 <roconnor> TD: this seems like it would make writing your SPV code more difficult :D
1134 2011-04-25 10:24:16 <TD> or rather, a getmatchingtxns
1135 2011-04-25 10:24:22 <TD> no, not really.
1136 2011-04-25 10:24:30 <TD> you don't need to link arbitrary transactions to a place in the chain
1137 2011-04-25 10:24:31 <roconnor> your adding new protocol commands?
1138 2011-04-25 10:24:33 <BlueMatt> anyone know what jgarzik's freenode.verf file is about?
1139 2011-04-25 10:24:39 <roconnor> *you're
1140 2011-04-25 10:24:48 <TD> not today. it's not necessary. you download the full block chain and just extract the transactions that interest you, then throw the rest away
1141 2011-04-25 10:24:54 <TD> it's not very efficient bandwidth wise but it works
1142 2011-04-25 10:25:03 <roconnor> oh
1143 2011-04-25 10:25:07 <TD> in the longer term, you'd send a remote full node a template to match against
1144 2011-04-25 10:25:14 <TD> it would then send you merkle branches for the matching transactions
1145 2011-04-25 10:25:20 agricocb has joined
1146 2011-04-25 10:25:28 <TD> (or alternatively hashes of the transactions which you then query the branches for separately, but that requires more round trips)
1147 2011-04-25 10:26:13 <BlueMatt> oh nvm
1148 2011-04-25 10:27:06 <genjix> is there a way to auto-construct in a return value for a tuple in c++0x?
1149 2011-04-25 10:27:09 <genjix> std::tuple<int, int, std::string> Multi() { return auto(10, 1, "hello"); }
1150 2011-04-25 10:28:02 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1151 2011-04-25 10:31:19 devrandom has joined
1152 2011-04-25 10:32:05 <jaromil> genjix: just a start at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Code_analysis :D
1153 2011-04-25 10:32:19 <jaromil> genjix: caedes is in with us, you can proceed planning a meeting next week
1154 2011-04-25 10:32:54 <genjix> sweet
1155 2011-04-25 10:33:54 RazielZ has joined
1156 2011-04-25 10:34:51 maikmerten has joined
1157 2011-04-25 10:35:34 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1158 2011-04-25 10:37:52 sgornick has joined
1159 2011-04-25 10:38:01 Myckel has joined
1160 2011-04-25 10:38:01 Myckel has quit (Changing host)
1161 2011-04-25 10:38:01 Myckel has joined
1162 2011-04-25 10:38:21 <sipa> TD: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6430.msg94738#msg94738
1163 2011-04-25 10:38:25 sgornick has quit (Client Quit)
1164 2011-04-25 10:38:57 sgornick has joined
1165 2011-04-25 10:39:19 <TD> sipa: yes, or add both. that way we can have both flexibility and efficiency
1166 2011-04-25 10:39:30 <TD> i like the idea of encoding which possibility is the right one
1167 2011-04-25 10:40:52 <jaromil> hey ppl is anyone working to open a -dev mailinglist plz? web forums... meh.
1168 2011-04-25 10:44:22 <BlueMatt> jaromil: I think most people gave up on the idea
1169 2011-04-25 10:44:27 <BlueMatt> it just wasnt really worth doing
1170 2011-04-25 10:44:50 <BlueMatt> if you want to put it together, Im sure people would use it though
1171 2011-04-25 10:45:11 <ersi> I'm not so sure
1172 2011-04-25 10:47:53 denkins has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1173 2011-04-25 10:50:40 <roconnor> sipa: with regards to CPU usage, a superOp would be able to use keyrecovery in place of signature verification.
1174 2011-04-25 10:51:12 <roconnor> key Recovory is about the same cost as signature verification I think (per key tested)
1175 2011-04-25 10:51:14 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1176 2011-04-25 10:51:16 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120083 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 876 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 8 hours, 43 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 102810.33536804
1177 2011-04-25 10:51:18 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
1178 2011-04-25 10:51:20 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.747,"low":1.5901,"vol":13800,"buy":1.59,"sell":1.599,"last":1.5903}}
1179 2011-04-25 10:52:44 <sipa> roconnor: sure about that?
1180 2011-04-25 10:52:58 <sipa> roconnor: actually, could you benchmark that? :)
1181 2011-04-25 10:53:16 <roconnor> No I'm not sure, and I cannot benchmark it
1182 2011-04-25 10:53:31 <roconnor> I'm just estimating based on the operations
1183 2011-04-25 10:54:05 <roconnor> actually I should take that back
1184 2011-04-25 10:54:33 <roconnor> key recovery has to both decompress a compressed public key and do something similar to a signature verification
1185 2011-04-25 10:55:19 <sipa> yes, idneed
1186 2011-04-25 10:55:21 <sipa> *indeed
1187 2011-04-25 10:55:29 <sipa> but i'd like to know how much that overhead is
1188 2011-04-25 10:55:38 <sipa> i'll try to implement it using openssl
1189 2011-04-25 10:56:02 <roconnor> ignoring the decompression part, both a signature verification and a key recoveory do two group exponentions, one group operation, and one inverse mod n operation.
1190 2011-04-25 10:56:54 <roconnor> oh wait I'm wrong
1191 2011-04-25 10:56:55 <roconnor> sorry
1192 2011-04-25 10:57:29 <roconnor> signature verification does two group exponetials, one group operation, one inverse mod n and two multiplications mod n
1193 2011-04-25 10:57:54 <roconnor> key recovery does *three* group exponentials, one group operations, one inverse mond n and 0 multiplications mod n.
1194 2011-04-25 10:58:10 <roconnor> so ya, I guess key recovery will be a little bit slower.
1195 2011-04-25 10:58:12 <roconnor> hmm
1196 2011-04-25 10:58:19 noagendamarket has joined
1197 2011-04-25 10:58:39 <roconnor> Acutally I my implementation is just sucky
1198 2011-04-25 10:58:58 <roconnor> I can rewrite it to use the same number of operations as signature verification
1199 2011-04-25 10:59:00 * roconnor does that
1200 2011-04-25 11:00:01 <sipa> hmm, if you've done that, could you show your implementation?
1201 2011-04-25 11:00:08 <roconnor> ys
1202 2011-04-25 11:00:17 <sipa> reading Haskell won't be a problem :p
1203 2011-04-25 11:02:01 <roconnor> sipa: http://hpaste.org/46022/ecdsa_key_recovery
1204 2011-04-25 11:02:08 <roconnor> let me know if you want me to walk you through it
1205 2011-04-25 11:03:08 <sacarlson> is there any examples on how to use the scripts in bitcoin?
1206 2011-04-25 11:03:30 <sacarlson> I was looking for posibly making a simple escrow
1207 2011-04-25 11:03:53 <roconnor> sacarlson: have you seen https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Scripts ?
1208 2011-04-25 11:04:16 <sacarlson> roconnor: no but I'll be reading it now thanks
1209 2011-04-25 11:04:56 paul_andrew has left ()
1210 2011-04-25 11:05:03 <roconnor> I should rewrite sqrtFp to return a list of all square roots instead of Maybe
1211 2011-04-25 11:08:49 stamit has joined
1212 2011-04-25 11:13:26 Speeder has joined
1213 2011-04-25 11:20:53 <roconnor> there, that's much more elegent
1214 2011-04-25 11:21:36 sethsethseth____ has joined
1215 2011-04-25 11:23:06 <sipa> newtype Fn = Fn Integer?
1216 2011-04-25 11:23:29 <roconnor> yes
1217 2011-04-25 11:23:38 <roconnor> though the arithmetics are all mod n
1218 2011-04-25 11:23:41 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1219 2011-04-25 11:24:28 <roconnor> sipa: the types of x and y are Fp where again newtype Fp = Fp Integer
1220 2011-04-25 11:24:55 autotron has joined
1221 2011-04-25 11:24:57 lumos has joined
1222 2011-04-25 11:25:17 <roconnor> r, invr, s, and (fromInteger (-hash)) are all of type Fn
1223 2011-04-25 11:25:26 <roconnor> scale :: Fn -> Point -> Point
1224 2011-04-25 11:25:44 OneOne has quit ()
1225 2011-04-25 11:25:58 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1226 2011-04-25 11:26:12 Pen16 has joined
1227 2011-04-25 11:26:47 sethsethseth____ has joined
1228 2011-04-25 11:26:54 <roconnor> sipa: maybe I should paste the entire module as well
1229 2011-04-25 11:27:29 <genjix> phantomcircuit: you around?
1230 2011-04-25 11:28:33 <roconnor> sipa: here is my entire module: http://hpaste.org/paste/46022/ecdsa_key_recovery_annotation#p46024
1231 2011-04-25 11:30:17 <sipa> roconnor: the hard part will be finding all the relevant functions in openssl, not the algorithmic part :D
1232 2011-04-25 11:30:51 <roconnor> presumablye OpenSSL doesn't have functions for key recovery
1233 2011-04-25 11:31:00 <roconnor> and you would need to patch OpenSSL
1234 2011-04-25 11:31:26 <sipa> no, just include the low-level headers to expose the internals of EC_KEY and EC_SIG
1235 2011-04-25 11:31:40 <sipa> and call the ec math functions yourself
1236 2011-04-25 11:31:44 <roconnor> :O
1237 2011-04-25 11:31:58 <roconnor> wouldn't patchin openssl be better for everyone?
1238 2011-04-25 11:32:03 <sipa> openssl is not really an api, just a bunch of functions
1239 2011-04-25 11:32:21 <sipa> yeah, maybe i can contribute it back to openssl if it works
1240 2011-04-25 11:32:57 <sipa> i already wrote a function to create an openssl key based on domain parameters + secret key parameter
1241 2011-04-25 11:33:10 <roconnor> domain parameters?
1242 2011-04-25 11:33:53 <sipa> the things defined by secp256k1
1243 2011-04-25 11:34:04 <roconnor> ok
1244 2011-04-25 11:34:10 <sipa> size of field, curve equation, generator point, ...
1245 2011-04-25 11:35:43 <sacarlson> ok I read the wiki for scripts now I still need an example to make it clear to me how they are used on say the command line with bitcoind
1246 2011-04-25 11:36:02 <sipa> they aren't
1247 2011-04-25 11:36:12 <sipa> bitcoin only creates two types of scripts
1248 2011-04-25 11:36:21 <sipa> either send to address, or send to pubkey
1249 2011-04-25 11:36:32 <sipa> the first is used for normal transactions, the second for generations
1250 2011-04-25 11:36:48 autotron has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1251 2011-04-25 11:37:49 <sacarlson> sipa: what is sent to the pubkey to do anything like a coin of some value to make changes in the script?
1252 2011-04-25 11:38:04 <sipa> ?
1253 2011-04-25 11:38:28 <sacarlson> sipa: I'm clueless on the steps on the command line to perform any script operation
1254 2011-04-25 11:38:44 <sipa> you can't
1255 2011-04-25 11:38:53 <sipa> it is not exposed to the user
1256 2011-04-25 11:38:59 <sipa> bitcoin just uses it internally
1257 2011-04-25 11:39:23 <lfm> sacarlson: you dont really use "scripts" at that level, the scripts are just internal. ie when you send
1258 2011-04-25 11:40:41 <sacarlson> lfm: ok give me any example of an existing or none exiting scripts operation in the case of a escrow what is needed to move the script to the next step?
1259 2011-04-25 11:40:51 <jaromil> autotool pull req. rebased and looking good: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/180
1260 2011-04-25 11:40:58 <jaromil> smack it up a bit more! :D
1261 2011-04-25 11:41:43 <lfm> sacarlson: I dont know how youd do that really. it would be a whole new set of operations
1262 2011-04-25 11:42:20 joepie92 is now known as joepie91
1263 2011-04-25 11:42:22 <sipa> i don't think so
1264 2011-04-25 11:42:26 robblesz has joined
1265 2011-04-25 11:42:38 <sipa> escrows was the one thing satoshi had in mind when he designed the script language
1266 2011-04-25 11:43:00 <lfm> new command line operations that use new combinations of script operations
1267 2011-04-25 11:43:26 <sacarlson> sipa: yes I read the article but again I don't have a firm understanding of how the values get into the scripts to change there path
1268 2011-04-25 11:43:56 <lfm> the scripts are actually kinda hard coded in the software
1269 2011-04-25 11:44:19 <sipa> change their path?
1270 2011-04-25 11:44:37 <sipa> those scripts are just sequences of bytes embedded in transactions
1271 2011-04-25 11:45:14 <sacarlson> sipa: then how are the if then statment used if the values don't change
1272 2011-04-25 11:45:38 <sipa> which values?
1273 2011-04-25 11:46:32 <topi`> ~.
1274 2011-04-25 11:46:34 <lfm> theyre hard coded in the routine that create the transactions then interpretted by the other nodes to do waht is wanted theoreticlly. in practise most of the script abilities are disabled in the current software
1275 2011-04-25 11:46:36 <sipa> a script is just a little program executed to verify whether someone is allowed to spend that output
1276 2011-04-25 11:46:38 <sacarlson> sipa: I don't know the one that the creator of the script creates I think lfm is correct we need to add some command line input extensions to enable them
1277 2011-04-25 11:46:49 <sipa> no we don't
1278 2011-04-25 11:47:04 <sacarlson> sipa: yes so what input do I use to say ok it's ok to spend it now?
1279 2011-04-25 11:47:15 <sipa> the transaction spending it is the input
1280 2011-04-25 11:47:25 <sipa> and its scriptSig
1281 2011-04-25 11:47:51 <sacarlson> sipa: ok so on the sender side how do I change this scriptSig?
1282 2011-04-25 11:48:06 <sipa> your client creates it for you
1283 2011-04-25 11:48:12 <sipa> when signing a transaction
1284 2011-04-25 11:48:16 <sipa> to be able to spend
1285 2011-04-25 11:48:37 <lfm> sacarlson: franky Iv never really understood it. I dont see why you can just kae a script that says ok spend this other guy's money, no signature need for this script haha
1286 2011-04-25 11:49:22 <BlueMatt> hey, they finally replaced the bsod with a somewhat better-looking black sod
1287 2011-04-25 11:50:03 TheAncientGoat has joined
1288 2011-04-25 11:50:05 <lfm> BlueMatt: you miss the point, its still called a blue screen of death, no matter what color it is
1289 2011-04-25 11:50:18 <BlueMatt> lfm: its still bsod either way
1290 2011-04-25 11:50:47 <lfm> yup
1291 2011-04-25 11:50:49 <sacarlson> well until I see one simple example of this scipting language used where the sender can later release the funds that the reciever knows he has locked in I'm stuck
1292 2011-04-25 11:51:12 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: its not implemented yet
1293 2011-04-25 11:51:30 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: yes that's what I had hoped to do
1294 2011-04-25 11:51:49 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: no, you need nLockTime
1295 2011-04-25 11:51:55 <BlueMatt> which iirc isnt implemented yet
1296 2011-04-25 11:51:58 <sacarlson> but I can see at this point it's presently beyond my present knowledge
1297 2011-04-25 11:52:15 <lfm> meanwhile you can still use regular escrow people
1298 2011-04-25 11:52:22 <sipa> sacarlson: ah now i understand your question
1299 2011-04-25 11:52:36 <sipa> sacarlson: you want a concrete example on how the script system can be used for an escrow?
1300 2011-04-25 11:53:01 <sacarlson> sipa: even if it didn't exist yet yes
1301 2011-04-25 11:53:04 autotron has joined
1302 2011-04-25 11:53:05 <sipa> sacarlson: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4723.0
1303 2011-04-25 11:53:48 <sipa> transactions cannot be changed, nor can the input of a script, a script just says whether a tx is a valid or invalid way of spending the output
1304 2011-04-25 11:57:10 tabsa has joined
1305 2011-04-25 11:58:05 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1306 2011-04-25 11:58:07 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1307 2011-04-25 11:58:38 wolfspraul has joined
1308 2011-04-25 11:58:41 jaromil has left ()
1309 2011-04-25 11:58:56 <sacarlson> sipa: I already read that article and already enabled IsStandard() or added a way to enable it in bitcoin.conf but I'm still stuck
1310 2011-04-25 11:59:20 <sipa> what do you want to do, precisely?
1311 2011-04-25 11:59:34 <sacarlson> simple escrow to start
1312 2011-04-25 11:59:50 <sipa> you'll need to modify createtransaction in that case
1313 2011-04-25 11:59:55 <sipa> to create another script
1314 2011-04-25 12:00:09 <sipa> with two addresses instead of one
1315 2011-04-25 12:00:24 eternal1 has joined
1316 2011-04-25 12:01:00 <sacarlson> sipa: ok so scripts are already used in createtransaction?
1317 2011-04-25 12:02:13 <sipa> yes of course
1318 2011-04-25 12:02:21 <sipa> they are the mechanism for verifying transactions
1319 2011-04-25 12:02:35 <sipa> only currently there are only two types of scripts used
1320 2011-04-25 12:03:47 <sacarlson> sipa: well at least I'll take a look in that area to see if there is any hope, but it looks dim
1321 2011-04-25 12:04:06 <sacarlson> but thanks for your input all the same
1322 2011-04-25 12:08:54 henchan has left ()
1323 2011-04-25 12:14:24 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1324 2011-04-25 12:29:11 chmod755 has joined
1325 2011-04-25 12:29:42 ezl has joined
1326 2011-04-25 12:29:49 <genjix> how the hell does CTxOut call ::IsMine(...) on line 349 of main.h when it's a base class and doesn't inherit anything, nor define IsMine?
1327 2011-04-25 12:31:30 jedi95 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1328 2011-04-25 12:31:30 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1329 2011-04-25 12:32:21 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1330 2011-04-25 12:32:45 sethsethseth____ has joined
1331 2011-04-25 12:33:19 <sipa> genjix: it refers to script'h IsMine() function
1332 2011-04-25 12:33:25 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1333 2011-04-25 12:33:27 [Tycho] has joined
1334 2011-04-25 12:33:30 <sipa> the :: is to explicitly not refer to the class method
1335 2011-04-25 12:34:02 agricocb has joined
1336 2011-04-25 12:35:15 <genjix> oh ok in script.h
1337 2011-04-25 12:41:47 kermit has joined
1338 2011-04-25 12:43:26 taco_the_paco has joined
1339 2011-04-25 12:54:26 <genjix> "The result has been a language with greatly improved abstraction mechanisms. The range of abstractions that C++ can express elegantly, flexibly, and at zero costs compared to hand-crafted specialized code has greatly increased." ... "The pieces just fit together better than they used to and I find a higher-level style of programming more natural than before and as efficient as ever. ... The abstractions are simply more flexible and affordable tha
1340 2011-04-25 12:54:34 <genjix> someone talking about C++0x
1341 2011-04-25 12:54:52 <genjix> there are people that actually think C++ is modern.
1342 2011-04-25 12:56:44 skyewm has joined
1343 2011-04-25 13:00:52 has joined
1344 2011-04-25 13:03:34 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1345 2011-04-25 13:03:42 manu1 has joined
1346 2011-04-25 13:04:50 js0000 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1347 2011-04-25 13:06:02 satamusic has joined
1348 2011-04-25 13:08:28 xxxxxxx is now known as xxxxxxx`brb
1349 2011-04-25 13:12:47 DukeOfURL has joined
1350 2011-04-25 13:13:44 <Diablo-D3> hey
1351 2011-04-25 13:13:46 <Diablo-D3> who owns mtgox?
1352 2011-04-25 13:13:49 autotron has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1353 2011-04-25 13:14:01 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1354 2011-04-25 13:14:11 <noagendamarket> magical tux ?
1355 2011-04-25 13:14:45 <Diablo-D3> he does now?
1356 2011-04-25 13:14:50 <Diablo-D3> MagicalTux: check your email dude
1357 2011-04-25 13:17:07 <noagendamarket> yes
1358 2011-04-25 13:17:27 <Diablo-D3> he needs to do something about that 100btc missing tx
1359 2011-04-25 13:18:08 <noagendamarket> ?
1360 2011-04-25 13:18:17 <noagendamarket> yours ?
1361 2011-04-25 13:18:18 <Diablo-D3> I sent 100btc to my mtgox account, it never showed up
1362 2011-04-25 13:18:26 <noagendamarket> hmm when was that ?
1363 2011-04-25 13:18:30 <Diablo-D3> yesterday
1364 2011-04-25 13:18:41 has quit (Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-251-239-227.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Quit: Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. -Emma Goldman)
1365 2011-04-25 13:19:06 Netsniper has joined
1366 2011-04-25 13:19:26 <MagicalTux> Diablo-D3: you may have wanted to read the part when you add funds about not using the same address twice
1367 2011-04-25 13:19:34 <Kiba> Diablo-D3: hmm...seems to be a recurrent issue
1368 2011-04-25 13:19:36 <Diablo-D3> MagicalTux: I wasnt aware I did.
1369 2011-04-25 13:19:56 <MagicalTux> Diablo-D3: blockexplorer seems to show something like it
1370 2011-04-25 13:19:57 <Diablo-D3> MagicalTux: I copypasted the address it gave me when I told it I wanted to send 100btc
1371 2011-04-25 13:20:04 <Diablo-D3> maybe the software hiccuped?
1372 2011-04-25 13:20:10 <MagicalTux> each address is supposed to be new
1373 2011-04-25 13:20:41 <Diablo-D3> MagicalTux: it seems to have given me the same address for an immediately previous thing, I assumed this was normal
1374 2011-04-25 13:20:48 * Diablo-D3 has never used mtgox before
1375 2011-04-25 13:20:57 <MagicalTux> mmh
1376 2011-04-25 13:20:58 <MagicalTux> weird
1377 2011-04-25 13:21:03 <MagicalTux> anyway I'll credit your BTC manually
1378 2011-04-25 13:21:06 <BlueMatt> cache issue?
1379 2011-04-25 13:21:24 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: I doubt it
1380 2011-04-25 13:21:35 <Diablo-D3> no proxies, and ff doesnt suffer some such issues
1381 2011-04-25 13:21:39 <MagicalTux> here
1382 2011-04-25 13:21:41 <BlueMatt> captcha-style back button fail
1383 2011-04-25 13:21:43 <doublec> that seems an easy mistake to make. It'd be nice if addresses can be reused
1384 2011-04-25 13:21:48 <Diablo-D3> mtgox might not be setting http no cache stuff right
1385 2011-04-25 13:21:50 gasteve has joined
1386 2011-04-25 13:21:52 <MagicalTux> doublec: it's planned
1387 2011-04-25 13:21:57 <Diablo-D3> doublec: well, due to anonymous issues that could be a problem
1388 2011-04-25 13:22:11 <Diablo-D3> at least, it should keep generating new ones
1389 2011-04-25 13:22:28 <Diablo-D3> but it could do it every 24 hours, and remember the last one before the current one or something
1390 2011-04-25 13:23:20 <MagicalTux> Diablo-D3: I've started importing the blockchain into the database so I can easily detect new transactions without polling the bitcoin client once in a while
1391 2011-04-25 13:23:38 <MagicalTux> instead I have trigger for new blocks that will download the block (lastblock-6)
1392 2011-04-25 13:23:48 <Diablo-D3> ahh.
1393 2011-04-25 13:24:00 <Diablo-D3> MagicalTux: so my account has been credited?
1394 2011-04-25 13:24:12 <MagicalTux> yes
1395 2011-04-25 13:24:15 <MagicalTux> check "history" page
1396 2011-04-25 13:25:30 <Diablo-D3> yay
1397 2011-04-25 13:25:35 * Diablo-D3 sends more money then
1398 2011-04-25 13:25:46 <Diablo-D3> MagicalTux: Im trying to debug an issue with my client, btw
1399 2011-04-25 13:26:09 <MagicalTux> here I have made a derivative of qbitcoin for mtgox :D
1400 2011-04-25 13:26:21 <Diablo-D3> I think xel's 1000 tx of 0.01 (10 btc total) are going to cause insane tx fees
1401 2011-04-25 13:26:26 <Diablo-D3> when I finally send them to someone else
1402 2011-04-25 13:26:45 <Diablo-D3> because I tried to send 380 (when I had 388) and it spit out a useless error
1403 2011-04-25 13:27:27 pirrr has joined
1404 2011-04-25 13:28:07 Greek_o_nikos has left ("Leaving")
1405 2011-04-25 13:30:21 <Diablo-D3> so, for 211 sent thus far... 10 bitcents fees
1406 2011-04-25 13:31:07 MartianW has left ("Bye all.")
1407 2011-04-25 13:31:12 * TD curses satoshis code
1408 2011-04-25 13:32:50 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1409 2011-04-25 13:32:54 <doublec> MagicalTux: you could run a half-node and have that ping your app when a block or transaction is received
1410 2011-04-25 13:32:59 <doublec> (or is that what you're doing?)
1411 2011-04-25 13:34:05 <Diablo-D3> so
1412 2011-04-25 13:34:06 <Diablo-D3> I think
1413 2011-04-25 13:34:26 <MagicalTux> doublec: that's what I'm doing
1414 2011-04-25 13:34:35 <Diablo-D3> Im going to require machine names but not passwords for miners on the old protocol
1415 2011-04-25 13:35:57 <MagicalTux> (well, trying to)
1416 2011-04-25 13:36:13 <MagicalTux> I think I'll also allow people to "monitor" bitcoin addresses and receive http push when a transaction comes in
1417 2011-04-25 13:36:18 <MagicalTux> (as a free service)
1418 2011-04-25 13:42:31 <topi`> grr, my Beagle Board cannot compile the bitcoin C++ client, because it runs out of RAM! hah. I guess I'll just do a -O0 instead of -O3
1419 2011-04-25 13:43:00 <luke-jr> topi`: -O3 is generally a bad idea anyway
1420 2011-04-25 13:43:08 <doublec> topi`: how much ram do you have?
1421 2011-04-25 13:44:43 taco_the_paco has joined
1422 2011-04-25 13:44:54 <topi`> doublec: 256 megabytes :) (it's a beagle board!)
1423 2011-04-25 13:44:58 <lianj> topi`: swap it
1424 2011-04-25 13:45:08 <topi`> there is additional 256 MB of swap, but it got full.
1425 2011-04-25 13:45:21 <doublec> I suspect the json spirit parser consumes most of it
1426 2011-04-25 13:45:27 <topi`> anyway, g++ spends enormous amounts of RAM in the optimization phase of c++
1427 2011-04-25 13:45:28 <doublec> all those yummy templates for the compiler
1428 2011-04-25 13:45:45 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1429 2011-04-25 13:45:45 <topi`> I had even bigger problems compiling ghc (Haskell) :)
1430 2011-04-25 13:46:27 <doublec> I can imagine :)
1431 2011-04-25 13:46:29 <MagicalTux> when compiling tomsfastmath with gcc (and not g++), starting gcc 4.1.2 it needs ~6GB of ram
1432 2011-04-25 13:47:53 eao has joined
1433 2011-04-25 13:49:02 xlogik_ has joined
1434 2011-04-25 13:50:26 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1435 2011-04-25 13:50:52 agricocb1 has joined
1436 2011-04-25 13:51:02 <Diablo-D3> MagicalTux: wtf
1437 2011-04-25 13:51:08 <Diablo-D3> Im not blaming gcc here
1438 2011-04-25 13:51:11 <Diablo-D3> Im blaming the code
1439 2011-04-25 13:51:25 <Diablo-D3> btw -00 doesnt do what you think it does
1440 2011-04-25 13:51:35 <Diablo-D3> it disables free optimizations for debugging reasons
1441 2011-04-25 13:51:40 <Diablo-D3> it should be renamed -0d
1442 2011-04-25 13:51:51 <Diablo-D3> go try -Os or -O1 instead
1443 2011-04-25 13:51:56 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
1444 2011-04-25 13:52:16 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1445 2011-04-25 13:52:20 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1446 2011-04-25 13:54:04 agricocb has joined
1447 2011-04-25 13:55:00 <luke-jr> topi`: more important is GC
1448 2011-04-25 13:55:50 Zarutian has joined
1449 2011-04-25 13:56:49 <luke-jr> topi`: --param ggc-min-expand=0 --param ggc-min-heapsize=204800
1450 2011-04-25 13:56:59 <luke-jr> topi`: I also recommend a cross-distcc setup
1451 2011-04-25 13:57:32 agricocb1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1452 2011-04-25 13:57:34 <luke-jr> topi`: if you run out of memory linking (or to avoid it), set -Wl,--no-keep-memory -Wl,--reduce-memory-overheads -Wl,-S
1453 2011-04-25 13:59:07 <x6763> MagicalTux: any plans in the near future to stop broadcasting dark orders and orders with insufficient funds on the websocket's depth channel?
1454 2011-04-25 14:00:18 satamusic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1455 2011-04-25 14:00:32 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1456 2011-04-25 14:01:18 satamusic has joined
1457 2011-04-25 14:03:34 taco_the_paco has joined
1458 2011-04-25 14:03:43 TD has joined
1459 2011-04-25 14:05:59 agricocb1 has joined
1460 2011-04-25 14:07:04 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1461 2011-04-25 14:16:21 jaromil has joined
1462 2011-04-25 14:20:30 glassresistor has joined
1463 2011-04-25 14:20:30 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
1464 2011-04-25 14:20:30 glassresistor has joined
1465 2011-04-25 14:23:58 <topi`> jaromil: did you find a way to link against db4.7?
1466 2011-04-25 14:23:58 <topi`> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ldb_cxx-4.8
1467 2011-04-25 14:24:51 <topi`> Diablo-D3: at least -O0 uses less memory than -O2 :)
1468 2011-04-25 14:26:03 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1469 2011-04-25 14:26:09 sethsethseth has joined
1470 2011-04-25 14:26:55 <Diablo-D3> topi`: no, it uses the same as -O1
1471 2011-04-25 14:27:04 <Diablo-D3> which is what Im saying
1472 2011-04-25 14:27:07 <topi`> ok
1473 2011-04-25 14:27:26 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1474 2011-04-25 14:28:35 <genjix> hey phantomcircuit
1475 2011-04-25 14:29:00 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1476 2011-04-25 14:31:02 <jaromil> topi`: pull req 180
1477 2011-04-25 14:31:18 <jaromil> topi`: links default libdb which appears to be latest in debian
1478 2011-04-25 14:32:35 <BlueMatt> jaromil: might not be the best way to do that
1479 2011-04-25 14:33:14 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i see berkeley db itself as a problem, but then any solution is too specific to the time and platform
1480 2011-04-25 14:33:30 <BlueMatt> whats wrong with bdb?
1481 2011-04-25 14:33:31 <jaromil> of course autotools lets one customize flags and stuff if needed
1482 2011-04-25 14:33:34 <BlueMatt> what would you rather use?
1483 2011-04-25 14:33:38 <jaromil> sqlite
1484 2011-04-25 14:33:45 <BlueMatt> O:
1485 2011-04-25 14:33:49 <BlueMatt> yea...
1486 2011-04-25 14:34:05 <jaromil> its production grade stuff
1487 2011-04-25 14:34:05 <genjix> jaromil: i just send you the email
1488 2011-04-25 14:34:15 <BlueMatt> and bdb isnt?
1489 2011-04-25 14:34:21 <genjix> bbtw see line 498 in rpc.cpp
1490 2011-04-25 14:34:21 <jaromil> sry but i don't consider bdb production grade, but a student project good for learning
1491 2011-04-25 14:34:54 <genjix> problems with bdb = it corrupts if your program crashes
1492 2011-04-25 14:35:16 <BlueMatt> In any case, IMHO, bitcoin should always try to link to bdb 4.7 as it maintains support for moving wallet files and such
1493 2011-04-25 14:35:19 <Myckel> stuff from Oracle isn't production grade?
1494 2011-04-25 14:35:21 <BlueMatt> genjix: not normally
1495 2011-04-25 14:35:37 <jaromil> Myckel: who said that?
1496 2011-04-25 14:35:37 <genjix> you mean not in theory but only in practice
1497 2011-04-25 14:35:39 <BlueMatt> Myckel: no one uses the bdb after oracle bought sun
1498 2011-04-25 14:35:48 <jaromil> sqlite = file based , mysql = daemon based
1499 2011-04-25 14:35:56 <jaromil> again IMHO, i consider mysql production grade
1500 2011-04-25 14:36:02 <genjix> yep
1501 2011-04-25 14:36:04 <BlueMatt> jaromil: bdb is owned by oracle
1502 2011-04-25 14:36:11 <genjix> mysql is pretty standard in industry
1503 2011-04-25 14:36:12 <Myckel> never had issues with dbd... but it is different then sqlite
1504 2011-04-25 14:36:18 <jaromil> k gimme a break :) oracle owns mysql to
1505 2011-04-25 14:36:19 <genjix> and fast because of innodb
1506 2011-04-25 14:36:20 <jaromil> o
1507 2011-04-25 14:36:35 <genjix> bdb sucks
1508 2011-04-25 14:36:40 <BlueMatt> mysql is a very different class of db than bdb or sqlite
1509 2011-04-25 14:36:45 <BlueMatt> library vs daemon
1510 2011-04-25 14:36:49 <BlueMatt> very different use-case
1511 2011-04-25 14:37:24 <BlueMatt> anyway, I prefer bdb over sqlite
1512 2011-04-25 14:37:51 <BlueMatt> more stable in my experience
1513 2011-04-25 14:37:53 Pen16 has quit ()
1514 2011-04-25 14:39:13 alystair has joined
1515 2011-04-25 14:39:14 <Myckel> does mysql do transactions and parameterized input these days?
1516 2011-04-25 14:41:13 <BlueMatt> transactions: pretty much
1517 2011-04-25 14:41:18 <ersi> InnoDB does transactions
1518 2011-04-25 14:41:45 <BlueMatt> innodb is default now isnt it, or is that version still not out yet
1519 2011-04-25 14:42:12 <topi`> configure: error: Could not find a version of the library!
1520 2011-04-25 14:42:20 <topi`> jaromil: have you seen this? it's somehow related to boost
1521 2011-04-25 14:42:38 <topi`> anyway, the woman wants to go to a park, so I need to follow.
1522 2011-04-25 14:43:11 <jaromil> topi`: no idea what you refer too, i need more context. what?
1523 2011-04-25 14:43:52 larsivi has joined
1524 2011-04-25 14:44:58 sethsethseth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1525 2011-04-25 14:45:33 <topi`> BOOST_SYSTEM_LIB="-l$ax_lib";
1526 2011-04-25 14:45:40 <topi`> it tries to link to this -l$ax_lib and fails
1527 2011-04-25 14:45:46 sethsethseth has joined
1528 2011-04-25 14:46:55 <jaromil> compiling bitcoin? which branch?
1529 2011-04-25 14:49:18 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1530 2011-04-25 14:50:31 erdbeer has joined
1531 2011-04-25 14:51:53 <erdbeer> hi. when i try to run the precompiled bitcoin binary, i get "./bitcoin: error while loading shared libraries: libpng12.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
1532 2011-04-25 14:51:57 <erdbeer> what's wrong?
1533 2011-04-25 14:54:41 <BlueMatt> erdbeer: have you tried installing libpng from your package manager
1534 2011-04-25 14:55:04 <Myckel> erdbeer, the statically compiled client expects that you have libpng1.2, but most distro's have already upgraded to libpng1.4.
1535 2011-04-25 14:55:08 <BlueMatt> in other news, the single line, unused png line which creates a dep on libpng needs removed
1536 2011-04-25 14:55:10 <erdbeer> yes, i've got libpng 1.4.5 installed
1537 2011-04-25 14:55:34 <Myckel> libpng1.4 is not backwards compatible with libpng1.2
1538 2011-04-25 14:55:36 <BlueMatt> the distributed client is really only working on ubuntu
1539 2011-04-25 14:55:48 <BlueMatt> beyond that its not really supported
1540 2011-04-25 14:56:19 <erdbeer> it's working on debian sid, but that shouldn't be much different
1541 2011-04-25 14:56:25 <luke-jr> Myckel: I think it is at the source level
1542 2011-04-25 14:56:54 glassresistor has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1543 2011-04-25 14:56:58 <BlueMatt> erdbeer: youll have to compile it yourself
1544 2011-04-25 14:57:01 <luke-jr> eg, API compatible, just not ABI
1545 2011-04-25 14:57:05 <BlueMatt> with your own wx compilation
1546 2011-04-25 14:57:46 <erdbeer> don't want to bloat my system with gcc ;)
1547 2011-04-25 14:57:47 <Myckel> luke-jr, gentoo had problems when the libpng dev pushed 1.4 without warning... a lot of stuff broke.
1548 2011-04-25 14:57:59 Incitatus has joined
1549 2011-04-25 14:58:04 <BlueMatt> erdbeer: I might compile the nightlies w/o png crap
1550 2011-04-25 14:58:31 <BlueMatt> all you actually need is https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/22467b618019338480463f188b2f01520d1d986c
1551 2011-04-25 14:58:33 <luke-jr> Myckel: only if you're using old portage
1552 2011-04-25 14:58:37 <BlueMatt> and then wx without png
1553 2011-04-25 14:58:56 <luke-jr> Myckel: Portage 2.2+ doesn't delete libraries until nothing links to them
1554 2011-04-25 14:59:31 <BlueMatt> kinda annoying that bitcoin requires png just for that line which doesnt do anything
1555 2011-04-25 14:59:57 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1556 2011-04-25 15:00:02 <Myckel> luke-jr, portage 2.2 isn't stable yet on x86
1557 2011-04-25 15:00:26 <jaromil> lol @ libpng
1558 2011-04-25 15:00:36 <Diablo-D3> man
1559 2011-04-25 15:00:43 <Diablo-D3> I bet xel is going to cost me more than 10btc in fees
1560 2011-04-25 15:00:47 <jaromil> its been 10 years and more that every time they update it EVERYTHING breaks
1561 2011-04-25 15:00:48 <jaromil> ahahahahahahaha
1562 2011-04-25 15:00:53 <jaromil> it's THE TERROR lib
1563 2011-04-25 15:01:18 <luke-jr> Myckel: works fine for years now
1564 2011-04-25 15:01:42 <Myckel> jaromil, poppler is also such library...
1565 2011-04-25 15:01:52 <jaromil> Myckel: poppler is out of my world
1566 2011-04-25 15:01:58 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: send yourself lots of 0.1 coins, then repeat for 1 BTC, then 10 BTC, etc
1567 2011-04-25 15:02:11 <jaromil> i think i'll never code using anything that comes from the gnome project
1568 2011-04-25 15:02:19 skeledrew has joined
1569 2011-04-25 15:02:19 <jaromil> libpng is enough to get pissed about
1570 2011-04-25 15:02:24 <luke-jr> jaromil: good luck
1571 2011-04-25 15:02:36 <luke-jr> jaromil: BlueZ is firmly entrenched in the GNOME world :/
1572 2011-04-25 15:02:47 <jaromil> its a swamp
1573 2011-04-25 15:02:52 glassresistor has joined
1574 2011-04-25 15:02:57 <jaromil> it entangles software into nonsense deps
1575 2011-04-25 15:03:00 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: its hitting hard max tx size
1576 2011-04-25 15:03:04 <Diablo-D3> but yeah like
1577 2011-04-25 15:03:05 <jaromil> i hate gnome
1578 2011-04-25 15:03:12 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: not if you only do small sizes
1579 2011-04-25 15:03:15 <jaromil> its so NON-UNIX
1580 2011-04-25 15:03:19 <Diablo-D3> Ive sent mtgox 301btc thus far
1581 2011-04-25 15:03:30 <luke-jr> jaromil: it's 1 dep
1582 2011-04-25 15:03:44 <Diablo-D3> its cost me 0.30 in fees
1583 2011-04-25 15:03:46 <jaromil> shit i have bluez in one of my sw
1584 2011-04-25 15:04:43 underscor has joined
1585 2011-04-25 15:04:52 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1586 2011-04-25 15:05:21 <Diablo-D3> 326 -> 0.36
1587 2011-04-25 15:05:39 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/186
1588 2011-04-25 15:05:45 <jaromil> luke-jr: ok bluez only depends from libglib
1589 2011-04-25 15:05:50 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: if you did it in steps of 0.1, you'd be ok :P
1590 2011-04-25 15:05:55 <Diablo-D3> lawlz
1591 2011-04-25 15:05:56 <luke-jr> jaromil: "only"
1592 2011-04-25 15:06:00 <jaromil> yea.... i've given up on glib already long time ago
1593 2011-04-25 15:06:02 <Diablo-D3> AHH HERE WE GO
1594 2011-04-25 15:06:03 <Diablo-D3> THE BIG ONE
1595 2011-04-25 15:06:33 <Diablo-D3> 351 -> 1.27
1596 2011-04-25 15:06:43 TheAncientGoat has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1597 2011-04-25 15:07:19 TheAncientGoat has joined
1598 2011-04-25 15:07:30 <jaromil> oh BTW nice article re: desktop security http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/2011/04/linux-security-circus-on-gui-isolation.html
1599 2011-04-25 15:07:35 mmoya has joined
1600 2011-04-25 15:08:16 <Diablo-D3> 361 -> 1.37
1601 2011-04-25 15:10:44 citiz3n has quit ()
1602 2011-04-25 15:10:45 <Diablo-D3> 371 -> 2.13
1603 2011-04-25 15:11:40 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1604 2011-04-25 15:11:47 <Diablo-D3> now lets see if I can send the last 15
1605 2011-04-25 15:12:54 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1606 2011-04-25 15:13:33 <Diablo-D3> 381 -> 2.81
1607 2011-04-25 15:15:47 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1608 2011-04-25 15:16:03 <Diablo-D3> 385 -> 3.26
1609 2011-04-25 15:16:23 <Diablo-D3> I have .67 left
1610 2011-04-25 15:21:44 <necrodearia> Can someone help to suggest name ideas for an open source bitcoin merchandising operation? #bitcoin-merch (or bitcoinmerch.com) doesn't seem so nice.
1611 2011-04-25 15:22:35 <ersi> merch-a-lot.us
1612 2011-04-25 15:24:24 <jaromil> oh gosh no, more junk with logos nooo
1613 2011-04-25 15:24:30 <jaromil> :)
1614 2011-04-25 15:24:47 <necrodearia> ah right, good point...I'll scrap the idea
1615 2011-04-25 15:26:49 <jaromil> anyone into ubuntu here? plz have a look at https://launchpad.net/bitcoin/
1616 2011-04-25 15:27:06 <jaromil> at least is a good testbuild platform and can boost translations
1617 2011-04-25 15:27:12 skyewm has joined
1618 2011-04-25 15:27:24 <BlueMatt> jaromil: interesting...know if anythings changed in wayland
1619 2011-04-25 15:27:47 <jaromil> just found it, it's open...
1620 2011-04-25 15:27:53 <jaromil> i use launchpad myself for testing
1621 2011-04-25 15:29:04 <sacarlson> jaromil: this is a ppa for bitcoin but it's the older version
1622 2011-04-25 15:29:11 <sacarlson> there is not this is
1623 2011-04-25 15:29:20 <jaromil> right, should update it no?
1624 2011-04-25 15:29:38 <sacarlson> jaromil: well can't with the wx libs yes
1625 2011-04-25 15:29:39 <sacarlson> yet
1626 2011-04-25 15:29:57 <jaromil> true, but still can build bitcoind
1627 2011-04-25 15:30:20 <sacarlson> jaromil: the older version still works in main net just not in testnet
1628 2011-04-25 15:30:21 <jaromil> sacarlson: once this is inside i'll snap in some builds https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/180
1629 2011-04-25 15:31:08 <Sami345> I haven't got a block in two months :/
1630 2011-04-25 15:31:29 <jaromil> Sami345: so now you come complain to the development channel? LOL
1631 2011-04-25 15:31:44 <Sami345> I'm not complaining..
1632 2011-04-25 15:31:56 <Sami345> Just sad
1633 2011-04-25 15:32:10 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1634 2011-04-25 15:32:48 <sacarlson> jaromil: this is the first bitcoin I ran that does work on main net https://launchpad.net/~stretch/+archive/bitcoin
1635 2011-04-25 15:33:29 <jaromil> sacarlson: thanks! interesting
1636 2011-04-25 15:33:52 <jaromil> you did the wxwidgets package
1637 2011-04-25 15:34:11 <jaromil> i mean, david
1638 2011-04-25 15:34:48 <sacarlson> jaromil: I guess it used the older wx lib package on that release
1639 2011-04-25 15:35:52 <jaromil> anyway i'm quite uninterested to the wx package myself
1640 2011-04-25 15:36:01 <sacarlson> I presently use the git release with the spesmilo graphic interface on ubuntu 10.04
1641 2011-04-25 15:36:08 <jaromil> its not a toolkit i like
1642 2011-04-25 15:36:20 <jaromil> spesmilo or the js one are good
1643 2011-04-25 15:36:35 <jaromil> can't wait to rip the WX GUI off the main core
1644 2011-04-25 15:36:38 AmpEater has joined
1645 2011-04-25 15:37:13 <jaromil> BTW yesterday night i've farted out some stats http://bitcoin.dyne.org/coverage/
1646 2011-04-25 15:37:24 <jaromil> its a simple run, no transactions done
1647 2011-04-25 15:37:28 <sacarlson> jaromil: I'm quite happy with spesmilo just would like to add the number of connections and block count to the display
1648 2011-04-25 15:38:21 <erdbeer> jaromil, are you the guy who wrote that 13 byte fork bomb?
1649 2011-04-25 15:38:36 <jaromil> erdbeer: yea. that's why i like bitcoin now :D
1650 2011-04-25 15:39:23 <erdbeer> good job :) but i don't understand.. you like bitcoin because of the fork bomb?
1651 2011-04-25 15:39:31 <jaromil> nah :) just a joke
1652 2011-04-25 15:40:08 <jaromil> when i wrote that forkbomb i had in mind the unix systems used in banks, more than desktop computers
1653 2011-04-25 15:41:10 <erdbeer> lol that's why you wrote it in 13 bytes?
1654 2011-04-25 15:41:48 <sacarlson> 13 the unlucky number
1655 2011-04-25 15:42:50 <jaromil> just to tell'em to stop bragging about security, a t-shirt is enough... well its useful to understand that i used to work into one of those. and lotus notes makes one bored enough to become an artist in the spare time... :D
1656 2011-04-25 15:44:52 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,gen 736
1657 2011-04-25 15:44:54 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 736 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 0.00801634000929 BTC per day and 0.000334014167054 BTC per hour.
1658 2011-04-25 15:44:58 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,gen 736000
1659 2011-04-25 15:44:59 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 736000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 8.01634000929 BTC per day and 0.334014167054 BTC per hour.
1660 2011-04-25 15:45:22 Marcel has left ()
1661 2011-04-25 15:46:11 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,gen 1100000
1662 2011-04-25 15:46:12 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 11.9809429487 BTC per day and 0.499205956195 BTC per hour.
1663 2011-04-25 15:47:16 <Sami345> ;;bc,gen 1620370
1664 2011-04-25 15:47:16 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1620370 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 17.648691387 BTC per day and 0.735362141126 BTC per hour.
1665 2011-04-25 15:47:45 <Sami345> ;;bc,gen 160000
1666 2011-04-25 15:47:45 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 160000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1.74268261072 BTC per day and 0.0726117754465 BTC per hour.
1667 2011-04-25 15:50:41 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
1668 2011-04-25 15:50:48 <LtBrenton> ;;bc,gen 530000
1669 2011-04-25 15:50:49 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 530000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 5.772636148 BTC per day and 0.240526506167 BTC per hour.
1670 2011-04-25 15:50:54 phantomcircuit has joined
1671 2011-04-25 15:51:05 <LtBrenton> ;;bc,calc 530000
1672 2011-04-25 15:51:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 530000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1 week, 1 day, 15 hours, 52 minutes, and 38 seconds
1673 2011-04-25 15:51:22 <Sami345> ;;bc,calc 160000
1674 2011-04-25 15:51:22 <phantomcircuit> genjix, hey
1675 2011-04-25 15:51:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 160000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 4 weeks, 0 days, 16 hours, 35 minutes, and 36 seconds
1676 2011-04-25 15:52:19 <AmpEater> ;;bc,gen 5000000
1677 2011-04-25 15:52:20 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 5000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 54.4588315849 BTC per day and 2.2691179827 BTC per hour.
1678 2011-04-25 15:52:49 BlueMatt has joined
1679 2011-04-25 15:52:49 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
1680 2011-04-25 15:52:49 BlueMatt has joined
1681 2011-04-25 15:55:03 DukeOfURL has joined
1682 2011-04-25 15:56:02 <Diablo-D3> uh
1683 2011-04-25 15:56:06 <Diablo-D3> shit tux left
1684 2011-04-25 15:57:35 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: hes in japan...kinda late there
1685 2011-04-25 15:57:58 <Diablo-D3> well I was going to tell him
1686 2011-04-25 15:58:07 <Diablo-D3> why not just randomly generate addresses like now
1687 2011-04-25 15:58:10 <Diablo-D3> but not tie them to an amount
1688 2011-04-25 15:58:48 <BlueMatt> he bought it that way
1689 2011-04-25 15:58:57 <BlueMatt> he didnt code it
1690 2011-04-25 15:58:59 <Diablo-D3> I know, but Im trying to give him ideas
1691 2011-04-25 15:59:08 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1692 2011-04-25 15:59:16 <Diablo-D3> I killed bluematt! hurray!
1693 2011-04-25 15:59:48 <jaromil> luke-jr: spesmilo gives me an error on this machine
1694 2011-04-25 15:59:49 <jaromil> ImportError: No module named PySide.QtCore
1695 2011-04-25 16:00:06 <jaromil> genjix, luke-jr: can you point me which module is missing? certainly not python-qt-dev
1696 2011-04-25 16:00:07 <Sami345> Rikkihappo sulfaatti-ioni
1697 2011-04-25 16:00:13 <luke-jr> jaromil: PySide
1698 2011-04-25 16:00:17 <jaromil> ack, 10x
1699 2011-04-25 16:00:31 <luke-jr> jaromil: also, did you read the instructions?
1700 2011-04-25 16:00:32 <Diablo-D3> okay guys
1701 2011-04-25 16:00:42 eternal11 has joined
1702 2011-04-25 16:00:54 <sacarlson> jaromil: I think it was a ppa thing
1703 2011-04-25 16:00:58 <jaromil> luke-jr: just notices the readme
1704 2011-04-25 16:01:04 <jaromil> :X :)
1705 2011-04-25 16:01:16 <Diablo-D3> should I bother with per machine statistics on my pool software?
1706 2011-04-25 16:01:24 <jaromil> loved make local, made me so excited to not have to README
1707 2011-04-25 16:01:32 <luke-jr> jaromil: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Spesmilo#Quick_start_(from_source)
1708 2011-04-25 16:02:02 <Diablo-D3> does anyone actually use that feature on slush's pool?
1709 2011-04-25 16:04:13 eternal1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1710 2011-04-25 16:06:20 Construct has joined
1711 2011-04-25 16:07:29 <Diablo-D3> anyone know?
1712 2011-04-25 16:08:46 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1713 2011-04-25 16:09:29 JackRabiit has joined
1714 2011-04-25 16:12:12 <JackRabiit> ArtForz: Hey may i ask how many Ghashes your at with your Rig's?, I have photos from you of your setup but i dont recall nowing how fast it was. Could you say?
1715 2011-04-25 16:12:21 <Diablo-D3> guys
1716 2011-04-25 16:12:23 <Diablo-D3> does ANYONE
1717 2011-04-25 16:12:34 <Diablo-D3> use the multiple miner shit on slush's pool at all?
1718 2011-04-25 16:12:39 <Diablo-D3> or do they just ignore it
1719 2011-04-25 16:12:50 ezl has joined
1720 2011-04-25 16:13:28 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: I used to
1721 2011-04-25 16:13:32 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r8944a7cda9c3 spesmilo/ (README doc/INSTALL.Gentoo doc/INSTALL.Ubuntu): update install instructions http://tinyurl.com/3nl7b36
1722 2011-04-25 16:13:49 <Diablo-D3> well, Im thinking about not adding it
1723 2011-04-25 16:16:34 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 263 seconds)
1724 2011-04-25 16:18:15 BlueMatt has joined
1725 2011-04-25 16:18:15 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
1726 2011-04-25 16:18:15 BlueMatt has joined
1727 2011-04-25 16:18:24 sshc has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1728 2011-04-25 16:19:05 JackRabiit has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1729 2011-04-25 16:22:39 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1730 2011-04-25 16:23:46 topace has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1731 2011-04-25 16:25:07 james359 has joined
1732 2011-04-25 16:26:10 <lulzplzkthx> So I know Satoshi disappeared and all, but the last message from him is completely normal... (on SMF). Did he post anything after his December 12th post on SMF?
1733 2011-04-25 16:26:34 topace has joined
1734 2011-04-25 16:27:03 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1735 2011-04-25 16:28:16 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: not on smf, though he still responds to emails
1736 2011-04-25 16:28:31 <BlueMatt> (from TD and/or gavin, probably others)
1737 2011-04-25 16:28:47 <TD> satoshi has left the project permanently
1738 2011-04-25 16:28:50 <netxshare> Diablo, are you having problems with slush's pool?
1739 2011-04-25 16:28:59 * Diablo-D3 looks
1740 2011-04-25 16:29:00 <Diablo-D3> no
1741 2011-04-25 16:29:20 <BlueMatt> TD: he said this in an email?
1742 2011-04-25 16:29:29 <netxshare> oh okay
1743 2011-04-25 16:29:32 <TD> yes
1744 2011-04-25 16:29:37 <BlueMatt> interesting
1745 2011-04-25 16:29:43 <TD> he said he's "moved on to other things" and that the project "is in good hands"
1746 2011-04-25 16:30:07 <luke-jr> TD: I disagree with the latter.
1747 2011-04-25 16:30:12 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: stfu
1748 2011-04-25 16:30:17 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no u
1749 2011-04-25 16:30:21 <TD> i think he's still willing to answer questions as long as they don't imply any work for him. i asked if he'd be willing to review something i'd written and he ignored that part of my mail :-)
1750 2011-04-25 16:30:55 <BlueMatt> TD: ha, though I assume we'll see him again when he sells a couple hundred thousand
1751 2011-04-25 16:31:28 <BlueMatt> Though, one question, why is he still the only one who has the keys to alerts?
1752 2011-04-25 16:31:43 <WakiMiko> alerts?
1753 2011-04-25 16:31:55 <BlueMatt> WakiMiko: he can send out alerts to all clients on the network
1754 2011-04-25 16:31:58 <TD> i think gavin might have the keys too
1755 2011-04-25 16:32:04 <BlueMatt> TD: currently he doesnt
1756 2011-04-25 16:32:09 <BlueMatt> should though IMHO
1757 2011-04-25 16:32:18 <TD> then I'm sure the keys will be handed off in due course, if gavin asks for them
1758 2011-04-25 16:32:25 <TD> the alerts mechanism is kind of questionable anyway imo
1759 2011-04-25 16:32:30 <BlueMatt> I agree
1760 2011-04-25 16:32:47 <WakiMiko> couldnt gavin just change the code?
1761 2011-04-25 16:32:51 <roconnor> TD: when did satoshi quit?
1762 2011-04-25 16:32:53 <BlueMatt> WakiMiko: yes
1763 2011-04-25 16:33:15 <jaromil> tcatm: any more coding planned on bitcoin-js-remote?
1764 2011-04-25 16:33:18 <BlueMatt> though IMHO the alerts arent that necessary now as miners are so centralized
1765 2011-04-25 16:33:32 <luke-jr> TD: IMO, the alerts mechanism should allow any key to relay, just don't display unless trusted
1766 2011-04-25 16:33:38 <TD> WakiMiko: that too
1767 2011-04-25 16:33:45 <TD> WakiMiko: but that wouldn't help for older clients, which was the intention
1768 2011-04-25 16:34:16 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: and you prevent ddos by...?
1769 2011-04-25 16:34:33 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's no different from tx spam
1770 2011-04-25 16:34:46 Greek_o_nikos has joined
1771 2011-04-25 16:34:57 <TD> yeah
1772 2011-04-25 16:35:11 <BlueMatt> yes, but tx spam can be worked on as it is a chain/requires coins whereas alerts wont
1773 2011-04-25 16:35:18 <BlueMatt> (unless you want people to pay to alert)
1774 2011-04-25 16:35:41 <TD> a reasonable compromise would be to allow additional alert keys to be specified in the config file
1775 2011-04-25 16:35:57 <BlueMatt> well I dont think they are necessary anyway so...
1776 2011-04-25 16:35:58 <necrodearia> To create a fork of Bitcoin and a new blockchain, which parts of code need to be modified to establish a separate network/blockchain?
1777 2011-04-25 16:36:08 <TD> you need to change
1778 2011-04-25 16:36:09 <necrodearia> e.g. namecoin
1779 2011-04-25 16:36:16 <BlueMatt> necrodearia: yea pretty much
1780 2011-04-25 16:36:19 <TD> 1) the peer discovery (seed nodes/irc channel)
1781 2011-04-25 16:36:26 <TD> 2) address version number
1782 2011-04-25 16:36:29 <TD> 3) genesis block contents
1783 2011-04-25 16:36:33 <BlueMatt> theoretically it would work with just a different genisis block
1784 2011-04-25 16:36:41 <BlueMatt> but that would cause many problems for both networks
1785 2011-04-25 16:36:50 <TD> not sure what else
1786 2011-04-25 16:36:53 <necrodearia> TD thanks
1787 2011-04-25 16:37:15 <BlueMatt> port would also probably be smart
1788 2011-04-25 16:37:30 <BlueMatt> that way even if nodes join the wrong irc/etc they still pretty much wont get any connections
1789 2011-04-25 16:37:36 <TD> yeah
1790 2011-04-25 16:38:19 * TD wipes his brow
1791 2011-04-25 16:38:25 robblesz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1792 2011-04-25 16:38:27 <TD> phew. i think i'm finally seeing light at the end of the block chain re-org tunnel
1793 2011-04-25 16:38:58 <BlueMatt> block chain re-org for what...? bitcoinj?
1794 2011-04-25 16:39:06 <TD> yeah
1795 2011-04-25 16:39:20 <TD> it has to work quite differently to satoshis code
1796 2011-04-25 16:39:22 <OneFixt> has anybody seen/talked to the owner of BCM2 lately?
1797 2011-04-25 16:39:32 <OneFixt> dwdollar
1798 2011-04-25 16:40:09 <netxshare> anyone know if http://bitcoinpool.com has a link to json output for the pool stats
1799 2011-04-25 16:40:35 <witten> netxshare: they do for your stats, not sure what it contains
1800 2011-04-25 16:41:25 <netxshare> I am looking for global ones right now
1801 2011-04-25 16:41:30 <netxshare> same with http://btcmine.com/
1802 2011-04-25 16:43:01 <genjix> phantomcircuit: hey
1803 2011-04-25 16:43:19 <phantomcircuit> genjix, you tried to contact me yesterday?
1804 2011-04-25 16:43:59 <luke-jr> OneFixt: no, but I need to
1805 2011-04-25 16:44:11 <luke-jr> OneFixt: one of my purchases hasn't been confirmed
1806 2011-04-25 16:44:26 <OneFixt> luke-jr: ouch, i wish you luck
1807 2011-04-25 16:44:56 <OneFixt> thankfully it's in escrow, so you'll get it eventually
1808 2011-04-25 16:46:25 Tritonio_Droid has joined
1809 2011-04-25 16:46:40 <luke-jr> yeah
1810 2011-04-25 16:46:48 <luke-jr> I just sent dwdollar an email ;)
1811 2011-04-25 16:46:53 <luke-jr> it's been 11 days now
1812 2011-04-25 16:46:58 <luke-jr> 99.5 BTC
1813 2011-04-25 16:49:05 lyspooner has joined
1814 2011-04-25 16:50:21 <TD> would somebody with a gpu mind knocking out a testnet block?
1815 2011-04-25 16:50:40 * TD is generating but it can still take a while with diff=5
1816 2011-04-25 16:52:29 fabianhjr has joined
1817 2011-04-25 16:54:38 <grbgout> TD: have you seen testnet-in-a-box?
1818 2011-04-25 16:54:43 <TD> i made it!
1819 2011-04-25 16:54:45 <TD> but you still have to mine
1820 2011-04-25 16:54:58 <TD> even diff=1 can take a while. it's not 10 minutes with 1 cpu
1821 2011-04-25 16:55:13 <grbgout> well, why can't you point your miner to your testnet in a box? Oh, cpu mining
1822 2011-04-25 16:55:39 <grbgout> what's the difficulty on testnet at the moment?
1823 2011-04-25 16:55:40 <TD> the gpu in my laptop would achieve 6 megahashes/sec
1824 2011-04-25 16:55:45 <TD> diff=!5
1825 2011-04-25 16:55:46 <TD> ~5
1826 2011-04-25 16:56:02 <TD> i can mine with cpu on testnet in a box. just means i get a toasty lap :)
1827 2011-04-25 16:57:08 satamusic has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1828 2011-04-25 16:57:41 <fabianhjr> Was there a pledge for a FOSS MyBitcoin alternative?
1829 2011-04-25 16:57:43 <grbgout> what are you testing?
1830 2011-04-25 16:58:03 <necrodearia> I do not mean to cause any flame war or heated discussions at all, but in regards to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_BitCoin what does the following mean: "improves usability drastically by allowing for infinite binary division" ?
1831 2011-04-25 16:58:23 * necrodearia sets self on fire
1832 2011-04-25 16:59:13 <luke-jr> what ever happened ot marioxcc?
1833 2011-04-25 16:59:32 <TD> grbgout: just trying to make sure the PingService example app still works after my huge set of changes.
1834 2011-04-25 16:59:36 <luke-jr> necrodearia: it means you can easily halve things
1835 2011-04-25 16:59:42 <TD> unit tests are great but not a replacement for seeing things work as normal for yourself
1836 2011-04-25 16:59:50 <TD> after testnet checks out i'll try on the production network too
1837 2011-04-25 16:59:58 <TD> or i can just go straight to prod and skip testnet
1838 2011-04-25 17:00:34 <fabianhjr> necrodearia: http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8540000/8540271/2/print/Lulu_interior_Tonal_System_0.2.pdf
1839 2011-04-25 17:00:42 <necrodearia> Yeah, I'm reading it.
1840 2011-04-25 17:00:45 <grbgout> TD: gotchya. I would point a GPU at testnet for ya, but I'm too poor to turn them away from the pools T_T I just checked my CPU hashrate against gribble, and it doesn't seem like it would help you at all: 2 hours.
1841 2011-04-25 17:00:56 <grbgout> TD: URL for your PingService?
1842 2011-04-25 17:00:57 <necrodearia> I'm curious to determine what kinds of disadvantages tonal has in which it is unaccepted
1843 2011-04-25 17:01:09 <TD> http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/source/browse/trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/examples/PingService.java
1844 2011-04-25 17:01:17 <TD> it's no big deal
1845 2011-04-25 17:01:21 <TD> i'll just send some of my real coins that way
1846 2011-04-25 17:01:40 <grbgout> Oh, are you the original developer of bitcoinj?
1847 2011-04-25 17:02:46 <TD> yes
1848 2011-04-25 17:03:08 <grbgout> Ah, neat. Your work being slashdotted introduced me to bitcoins (through the comments).
1849 2011-04-25 17:03:18 <grbgout> If only I had invested back then T_T
1850 2011-04-25 17:03:27 <TD> cool :-)
1851 2011-04-25 17:03:32 <luke-jr> grbgout: then difficulty would have been higher earlier
1852 2011-04-25 17:03:34 <grbgout> You wrote testnet-in-a-box too?
1853 2011-04-25 17:03:42 <grbgout> luke-jr: /invested/ not mined.
1854 2011-04-25 17:03:49 <grbgout> luke-jr: I did start mining back then.
1855 2011-04-25 17:03:53 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1856 2011-04-25 17:04:09 ezl has joined
1857 2011-04-25 17:04:38 <TD> i'd say made rather than wrote
1858 2011-04-25 17:04:44 <TD> as it's just a bunch of data files, configs and a README
1859 2011-04-25 17:04:56 <TD> though having made it, it's not as useful as i'd hoped
1860 2011-04-25 17:05:03 <TD> at least not yet
1861 2011-04-25 17:05:14 <TD> i think i might set up an internal testnet at google some time this summer.
1862 2011-04-25 17:05:25 <BlueMatt> why do we forward txes based on unconfirmed ones? shouldnt we just forward maybe just txes that require at max 1 unconfirmed tx?
1863 2011-04-25 17:05:30 <BlueMatt> It would cut way down on spam
1864 2011-04-25 17:05:39 echelon has joined
1865 2011-04-25 17:05:43 <grbgout> I haven't started using it yet, but I was quite giddy when gavin posted it in -dev. I was hoping for something like it, and it appeared before I had to set myself to figuring it out on my own. So thanks for that!
1866 2011-04-25 17:06:41 <grbgout> TD: what is it lacking to have not met your expectations?
1867 2011-04-25 17:06:43 <TD> BlueMatt: satoshis code is rather confusing on the topic of recursively unconfirmed transactions. parts of the code seem to support them and other parts try to block them
1868 2011-04-25 17:07:04 <BlueMatt> TD: so why dont we block them now since it would kill most of the current tx spam?
1869 2011-04-25 17:07:16 <TD> grbgout: well mostly just that mining is still way too hard even at diff=1. bitcoinj has a concept of a "unit test network" in which half of all block hashes are considered valid
1870 2011-04-25 17:07:21 <TD> so you can mint a new block instantly
1871 2011-04-25 17:07:39 <TD> BlueMatt: i don't know. recursively unconfirmed transactions seem useful though. we shouldn't rule them out.
1872 2011-04-25 17:07:52 <TD> generally when there's spam we should try to scale up rather than suppress potentially useful features, imho
1873 2011-04-25 17:07:54 <BlueMatt> TD: I dont really see much use case
1874 2011-04-25 17:08:08 <grbgout> TD: gotchya
1875 2011-04-25 17:08:14 <BlueMatt> obviously not block the first unconfirm-based tx
1876 2011-04-25 17:08:20 <BlueMatt> maybe not the second or third
1877 2011-04-25 17:08:27 <BlueMatt> but there is a point where I see no use and its just spam
1878 2011-04-25 17:08:42 <grbgout> blocks take time to be confirmed as well....
1879 2011-04-25 17:08:43 <TD> let's say we trust each other completely. i want to send you some coins and you know i won't play any funny games. but for whatever reason (eg input ages) i'd have to pay a fee
1880 2011-04-25 17:08:53 <TD> so i just email you a transaction directly to bypass the network and its relaying requirements
1881 2011-04-25 17:09:03 <TD> later on you want to spend it so you broadcast both my tx and your own
1882 2011-04-25 17:09:07 dust1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1883 2011-04-25 17:09:23 <BlueMatt> No, I agree there is a small use case for short chains of unconfirmed txes
1884 2011-04-25 17:09:31 <BlueMatt> but there is a point where I see none whatsoever
1885 2011-04-25 17:11:31 <lyspooner> hello, I have a transaction hanging out without confirmations (it made this list: http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/). first of all, why is it being ignored? secondly, what can i do to get it included in the next block?
1886 2011-04-25 17:11:59 Incitatus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1887 2011-04-25 17:12:18 <TD> lyspooner: how long was it pending?
1888 2011-04-25 17:12:27 <lyspooner> 5 days
1889 2011-04-25 17:12:50 <lyspooner> i've successfully sent from the same address to the same address before
1890 2011-04-25 17:13:11 skyewm has joined
1891 2011-04-25 17:13:43 <necrodearia> It would be nice if the ui attached to an existing daemon process so that the ui can attach to the existing daemon
1892 2011-04-25 17:13:58 <necrodearia> as opposed to running its own instance of bitcoin conneciton
1893 2011-04-25 17:14:15 <TD> lyspooner: how did you create it /
1894 2011-04-25 17:14:18 <TD> ?
1895 2011-04-25 17:14:36 <lyspooner> from the bitcoin client 0.3.19
1896 2011-04-25 17:14:53 dust- has joined
1897 2011-04-25 17:15:00 <Sami345> This transaction includes 0.04000000 BTC as fee.
1898 2011-04-25 17:15:02 <Sami345> O.o
1899 2011-04-25 17:15:08 <TD> lyspooner: what is the tx hash ?
1900 2011-04-25 17:15:09 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1901 2011-04-25 17:15:13 <lyspooner> ah nm, it's just been confirmed
1902 2011-04-25 17:15:20 <lyspooner> that was bizarre
1903 2011-04-25 17:15:22 <TD> haha
1904 2011-04-25 17:15:25 <TD> watched pots and all that
1905 2011-04-25 17:15:26 <TD> was it 491b82736e5f4bc7d6e46cb4565437a56c8c49629b8a17312812a413bb9257d6 ?
1906 2011-04-25 17:15:39 yrral86 has joined
1907 2011-04-25 17:15:52 <TD> no, never mind
1908 2011-04-25 17:15:53 <TD> it wasn't
1909 2011-04-25 17:15:58 <lyspooner> 259c...
1910 2011-04-25 17:16:41 erdbeer has quit (Quit: quit)
1911 2011-04-25 17:16:46 sabalaba has joined
1912 2011-04-25 17:16:47 <TD> that's weird. i don't see any reason why it wouldn't have made it in quickly
1913 2011-04-25 17:16:57 <TD> perhaps your client thought it had broadcast the tx but it actually failed somehow
1914 2011-04-25 17:17:02 <sharperguy> Hey. I tried sending some coins from testnet to the main network. The results seems to be a bug. The address was re-interpreted and the coins were sent to a new address begging with 'm'. The transaction is then never confirmed. Shouldn't the client just reject the transaction?
1915 2011-04-25 17:17:06 <TD> and then whilst you were chatting it rebroadcast it, and it was included as normal
1916 2011-04-25 17:18:01 <lyspooner> well all's well that ends well for me. thanks for looking into it TD
1917 2011-04-25 17:18:14 satamusic has joined
1918 2011-04-25 17:18:15 satamusic has quit (Changing host)
1919 2011-04-25 17:18:15 satamusic has joined
1920 2011-04-25 17:19:22 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1921 2011-04-25 17:19:49 <topi`> jaromil: I really don't understand how the configure script works, except that it is a shell script...
1922 2011-04-25 17:20:08 <topi`> and the errors that configure gives, are not very instructive :(
1923 2011-04-25 17:21:10 <jaromil> topi`: can you be more specific?
1924 2011-04-25 17:21:21 <jaromil> are you trying the pull req 180?
1925 2011-04-25 17:22:17 <jaromil> and do you have experience of autotool builds on OSX? already two people reported me success for that so debugging it now is not my priority
1926 2011-04-25 17:22:42 <topi`> jaromil: no, i'm just trying out your autoconf mods
1927 2011-04-25 17:22:51 <topi`> i'm building it on debian-unstable on ARM
1928 2011-04-25 17:23:13 <topi`> I guess i'm missing some lib or something, but the configure doesn't tell me.
1929 2011-04-25 17:25:09 <jaromil> you trying git@github.com:jaromil/bitcoin.git
1930 2011-04-25 17:25:16 <jaromil> and then autotools3 branch?
1931 2011-04-25 17:27:24 <topi`> lemme see which branch
1932 2011-04-25 17:27:40 <topi`> i'm on branch master and there are no other branches
1933 2011-04-25 17:28:16 <topi`> last commit says: " fix to find db_cxx.h on osx autotools
1934 2011-04-25 17:29:10 <topi`> and i don't understand what "pull req 180" means
1935 2011-04-25 17:32:04 <jaromil> oh no
1936 2011-04-25 17:32:12 <jaromil> cat .git/config
1937 2011-04-25 17:32:53 <jaromil> topi`: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/180
1938 2011-04-25 17:33:25 <topi`> i don't use github
1939 2011-04-25 17:33:43 <jaromil> ok i'll push it on dyne.org
1940 2011-04-25 17:34:03 <topi`> i do have an account on gitorious :)
1941 2011-04-25 17:34:05 <BlueMatt> you can checkout without an accoung on github
1942 2011-04-25 17:34:29 eternal11 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1943 2011-04-25 17:35:12 <topi`> ok
1944 2011-04-25 17:35:50 <jaromil> mmm, see if push -f works oon my repo
1945 2011-04-25 17:36:08 <BlueMatt> you cant push to someone else's repo
1946 2011-04-25 17:36:19 <BlueMatt> unless they add you of course
1947 2011-04-25 17:36:29 <topi`> i think the problem I had with configure script was caused by the fact that $ax_lib was equal to ""
1948 2011-04-25 17:36:38 <jaromil> i have http://code.dyne.org/?r=bitcoin
1949 2011-04-25 17:36:47 <BlueMatt> you can just post the patch file
1950 2011-04-25 17:36:54 <jaromil> topi`: there are lots of changes in the past 4 days
1951 2011-04-25 17:37:45 <jaromil> topi now is gine
1952 2011-04-25 17:37:48 <jaromil> fine
1953 2011-04-25 17:37:50 <jaromil> git pul --rebase
1954 2011-04-25 17:38:00 <jaromil> do git pull --rebase
1955 2011-04-25 17:38:16 <jaromil> i've uploaded on dyne.org the latest version of my patches
1956 2011-04-25 17:38:23 <jaromil> topi`: are you using emdebian?
1957 2011-04-25 17:38:39 <BlueMatt> git remote add jaromil https://github.com/jaromil/bitcoin.git; git fetch jaromil; git rebase -i jaromil/autotools3
1958 2011-04-25 17:39:10 <jaromil> BlueMatt: yep
1959 2011-04-25 17:40:28 <BlueMatt> "Sony has not yet determined if the personal information or credit card numbers of users on the still-offline Playstation Network have been stolen"
1960 2011-04-25 17:40:33 <BlueMatt> well thats just great
1961 2011-04-25 17:41:25 <jaromil> topi`: have you compiled openssl already?
1962 2011-04-25 17:41:40 <jaromil> i'm interested in xcompiling actually
1963 2011-04-25 17:41:56 <jaromil> there could be more flags there
1964 2011-04-25 17:42:32 skyewm has joined
1965 2011-04-25 17:43:13 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1966 2011-04-25 17:43:22 <jaromil> but well i doubt boost are arm friendly
1967 2011-04-25 17:43:26 <jaromil> i don't know actually
1968 2011-04-25 17:44:09 BlueMatt has joined
1969 2011-04-25 17:44:10 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
1970 2011-04-25 17:44:10 BlueMatt has joined
1971 2011-04-25 17:44:36 <topi`> I can find many boost packages in debian/unstable so I guess it is
1972 2011-04-25 17:45:04 <jaromil> your build host is an actual arm?
1973 2011-04-25 17:45:16 <topi`> yes, a beagle board
1974 2011-04-25 17:45:24 <jaromil> ack. interesting
1975 2011-04-25 17:45:33 <topi`> i'm not using emdebian, just a plain debian installation
1976 2011-04-25 17:46:06 james has joined
1977 2011-04-25 17:46:16 <BlueMatt> topi`: why cant you compile the regular version? or are you just testing the autotools one?
1978 2011-04-25 17:46:31 james is now known as Guest3694
1979 2011-04-25 17:46:35 topace has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1980 2011-04-25 17:46:39 <topi`> i installed libboost-filesystem* and libboost-system* and lets see what happens now.
1981 2011-04-25 17:46:48 <jaromil> topi`: openssl too and libgcrypt
1982 2011-04-25 17:46:59 AFK_PHPAdam has joined
1983 2011-04-25 17:47:08 AFK_PHPAdam is now known as H4U
1984 2011-04-25 17:47:20 <topi`> i should have the current openssl *dev package, dunno about libgcrypt
1985 2011-04-25 17:47:33 <Compgenius> oh great
1986 2011-04-25 17:47:38 <Compgenius> bitcoin darts is broken
1987 2011-04-25 17:47:44 <Compgenius> i've had 2 payments fail so far to it >_>
1988 2011-04-25 17:48:06 <H4U> does bitcoind on linux just have 100 addresses? what happens when I try and create 101?
1989 2011-04-25 17:48:15 <topi`> BlueMatt: I can compile the regular version, but there's nothing to fix there, is there? :)
1990 2011-04-25 17:48:16 <Compgenius> e.g. i send them, and even after they get confirmed, it doesn't go to the thrown dart page, it still waits for the payment
1991 2011-04-25 17:49:27 <BlueMatt> topi`: ok :)
1992 2011-04-25 17:49:53 <topi`> jaromil: I found the cause of the trouble. I did not have the libboost-system installed, but it still said this:
1993 2011-04-25 17:49:56 <topi`> checking whether the Boost::System library is available... yes
1994 2011-04-25 17:50:09 <topi`> that's why I got confused. the configure erroneously thought that Boost::System was available.
1995 2011-04-25 17:50:22 <topi`> and then there was a message about failed version check. heh.
1996 2011-04-25 17:52:07 <jaromil> topi`: i'm checking latest version here http://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf-archive/ax_boost_system.html#ax_boost_system
1997 2011-04-25 17:52:14 <topi`> BlueMatt: I have to add that I know even less about C++ than I know about autotools...
1998 2011-04-25 17:52:25 <BlueMatt> topi`: same here
1999 2011-04-25 17:52:39 * BlueMatt knew nothing about c++ or autotools before bitcoin :)
2000 2011-04-25 17:52:42 <jaromil> no difference
2001 2011-04-25 17:52:54 <topi`> jaromil: ok
2002 2011-04-25 17:53:08 <BlueMatt> jaromil: --host=i586-mingw32msvc fails epically
2003 2011-04-25 17:53:25 <jaromil> m44boost lacks maintainer as i read here http://www.randspringer.de/boost/index.html
2004 2011-04-25 17:53:31 <BlueMatt> system architecture is not supported by FreeJ
2005 2011-04-25 17:53:37 <jaromil> uh?
2006 2011-04-25 17:53:50 <jaromil> oh shit sry that definitely comes from a cut&paste
2007 2011-04-25 17:53:51 <jaromil> :D
2008 2011-04-25 17:53:54 <BlueMatt> mingw==cross compile
2009 2011-04-25 17:55:23 <jaromil> BlueMatt: can you tell me a summary of flags to be activated for MINGW?
2010 2011-04-25 17:55:37 <BlueMatt> none
2011 2011-04-25 17:55:47 <jaromil> ok standby within half hour i can bake a commit to fix this
2012 2011-04-25 17:55:50 <BlueMatt> just use i586-mingw32msvc-g++
2013 2011-04-25 17:56:04 <BlueMatt> oh, wait no the include libs names need changed
2014 2011-04-25 17:57:06 <necrodearia> Does anyone have any thoughts on a variation of bitcoin where there is no 21,000,000 limit and instead unlimited amount of units could exist?
2015 2011-04-25 17:57:25 <BlueMatt> jaromil: you can see the libs here: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/91054a7fc6185adee9f2da6731d5c0898943c477#diff-1
2016 2011-04-25 17:58:10 <necrodearia> Someone suggested a unit size of "3,317,760,000" instead of the "100,000,000" units that Bitcoin uses if there were no limit
2017 2011-04-25 17:59:40 gwelymernan has joined
2018 2011-04-25 18:00:01 <jaromil> BlueMatt: yepp i have that file
2019 2011-04-25 18:01:22 <jaromil> BlueMatt: pushed a fix
2020 2011-04-25 18:01:38 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
2021 2011-04-25 18:01:41 <jaromil> https://github.com/jaromil/bitcoin/commit/166ad8930a50df2a90283a6ead9587ea1b10564e
2022 2011-04-25 18:01:44 <jaromil> try plz
2023 2011-04-25 18:01:54 <jaromil> holy shit the address is still in there
2024 2011-04-25 18:01:54 <jaromil> sry
2025 2011-04-25 18:03:24 <jaromil> *cough* *cough*
2026 2011-04-25 18:06:35 <jaromil> wow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN9fGDnWcFY
2027 2011-04-25 18:06:46 <jaromil> sry distracted. how is it?
2028 2011-04-25 18:07:34 ArtForzZz has joined
2029 2011-04-25 18:10:44 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2030 2011-04-25 18:11:54 jlewis has joined
2031 2011-04-25 18:14:07 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2032 2011-04-25 18:14:41 <tcoppi> ;;bc,stats
2033 2011-04-25 18:14:42 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120151 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 808 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 20 hours, 29 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 104255.31022429
2034 2011-04-25 18:15:44 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2035 2011-04-25 18:16:44 <topi`> necrodearia: you don't want unlimited coin issue. the inflation needs to be controlled.
2036 2011-04-25 18:17:30 <necrodearia> topi`, Well, consider for example carrots, there is no limit to how many carrots can exist at any one time or at any future time. Is there a kind of inflation or deflation existent with carrots?
2037 2011-04-25 18:17:33 <luke-jr> topi`: I don't think he means uncontrolled
2038 2011-04-25 18:17:34 <topi`> necrodearia: you can create your own network and name it "bitinfla" if you don't like the way bitcoin resembles gold.
2039 2011-04-25 18:17:36 <luke-jr> topi`: just unbounded
2040 2011-04-25 18:18:00 <luke-jr> topi`: a constant rate of inflation for eternity is still controlled
2041 2011-04-25 18:18:03 toffoo has joined
2042 2011-04-25 18:18:13 <topi`> true that, but I think satoshi wanted to model gold.
2043 2011-04-25 18:18:23 <topi`> and the goldbugs would argue that that's the only way to do savings
2044 2011-04-25 18:18:35 <necrodearia> topi`, I'm not referring specifically to "bitcoin" but merely the idea with not having 21,000,000 limit...
2045 2011-04-25 18:18:40 <luke-jr> topi`: may the best system win ;)
2046 2011-04-25 18:19:11 <BlueMatt> jaromil: "checking for which platform we are compiling... mingw32msvc?!"
2047 2011-04-25 18:19:13 <BlueMatt> still
2048 2011-04-25 18:19:14 <necrodearia> I'd like to develop a better understanding if it is feasible or not
2049 2011-04-25 18:19:27 <necrodearia> or if limit of x is only option and nothing else will work
2050 2011-04-25 18:19:33 <BlueMatt> jaromil: oh, sorry, wait
2051 2011-04-25 18:19:48 <necrodearia> e.g. everything else will fail
2052 2011-04-25 18:19:51 <necrodearia> like the us dollar
2053 2011-04-25 18:20:01 <necrodearia> which can be created out of thin air at any time
2054 2011-04-25 18:20:24 <necrodearia> but with bitcoin, (or whatevercoin), then there is at least known controlled rate of creation (e.g. every 10 minutes)
2055 2011-04-25 18:21:43 <necrodearia> So, with a known rate of creation, would it be feasible for currency x to exist which resembles bitcoin but has no cap of y (e.g. 21,000,000)?
2056 2011-04-25 18:21:57 <midnightmagic> it could be created out of thin air; but, like the users of ฿ trust that the miners and people writing the software won't do something against their interests, we kind of trust that the government won't just let the economy tank
2057 2011-04-25 18:22:39 <midnightmagic> necrodearia: make it and see who joins. :-)
2058 2011-04-25 18:22:44 <necrodearia> I'm working on it ^_^
2059 2011-04-25 18:22:46 <necrodearia> Come to #carrot
2060 2011-04-25 18:22:55 <necrodearia> http://weusecarrots.com/
2061 2011-04-25 18:23:21 <midnightmagic> i thought that was just a parody site
2062 2011-04-25 18:23:27 <BlueMatt> jaromil: nitpicky visual issue "checking whether we are cross compiling... no"
2063 2011-04-25 18:23:34 <BlueMatt> when using mingw
2064 2011-04-25 18:23:58 <jaromil> BlueMatt: ack
2065 2011-04-25 18:24:11 <jaromil> necrodearia: u familiar with this thread? http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4460.40
2066 2011-04-25 18:25:17 <jaromil> necrodearia: funny :D
2067 2011-04-25 18:25:22 eternal1 has joined
2068 2011-04-25 18:26:19 <necrodearia> not yet *checks*
2069 2011-04-25 18:26:29 <necrodearia> midnightmagic, carrots are srs business!
2070 2011-04-25 18:27:02 <topi`> carrots are best in a soup.
2071 2011-04-25 18:27:03 EPiSKiNG has quit ()
2072 2011-04-25 18:27:21 <necrodearia> ^_^
2073 2011-04-25 18:27:28 <necrodearia> bitcoins aren't available in soup
2074 2011-04-25 18:28:10 <jaromil> i prefer miso
2075 2011-04-25 18:28:21 <jaromil> and mushrooms
2076 2011-04-25 18:28:29 <midnightmagic> carrots and sweet potatoes
2077 2011-04-25 18:28:30 <jaromil> how much is a mush for a carr?
2078 2011-04-25 18:28:32 <necrodearia> jaromil, hmm, that thread is far beyond my comprehension level
2079 2011-04-25 18:28:57 <jaromil> necrodearia: it is related to the cap question
2080 2011-04-25 18:29:09 * necrodearia rereads and tries to understand
2081 2011-04-25 18:29:17 <jaromil> naaa leave it nvm
2082 2011-04-25 18:29:26 <jaromil> BlueMatt: how does it goes ??
2083 2011-04-25 18:29:48 dotblank has joined
2084 2011-04-25 18:30:06 <dotblank> Is there a paper or spec for the bitcoin protocol?
2085 2011-04-25 18:30:17 <dotblank> or do I have to scour though the official client code
2086 2011-04-25 18:30:37 <jaromil> dotblank: see wiki on http://bitcoin.it
2087 2011-04-25 18:30:42 jwalck has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2088 2011-04-25 18:30:45 <roconnor> hmm, validating tranactions is a bit more complicated than I realized.
2089 2011-04-25 18:30:48 jwalck has joined
2090 2011-04-25 18:31:01 <dotblank> ok nice
2091 2011-04-25 18:31:19 <BlueMatt> jaromil: well its having problems first, it doesnt appear to be running with the right CFLAGS, Im looking into that one, but also, I need to be able to specify the location of the bdb + openssl+ miniupnpc libs (there doesnt appear to be problems)
2092 2011-04-25 18:31:39 <BlueMatt> s/problems/flags for that/
2093 2011-04-25 18:32:42 docl has joined
2094 2011-04-25 18:35:42 <jaromil> yes
2095 2011-04-25 18:35:54 <jaromil> to see the cflags
2096 2011-04-25 18:35:55 <jaromil> use
2097 2011-04-25 18:35:56 <jaromil> make V=1
2098 2011-04-25 18:36:15 <BlueMatt> jaromil: no I mean by default the flags it uses are far off what they should be
2099 2011-04-25 18:36:21 <BlueMatt> not sure what the exact difference is yet
2100 2011-04-25 18:36:27 <jaromil> right now --host=*mingw* makes
2101 2011-04-25 18:36:27 <jaromil> HOST_CXXFLAGS="-DWIN32 -D__WXMSW__ -D_WINDOWS -DNOPCH"
2102 2011-04-25 18:36:29 <BlueMatt> but errors out the wox
2103 2011-04-25 18:36:32 <BlueMatt> woz*
2104 2011-04-25 18:36:40 <jaromil> see how it goes
2105 2011-04-25 18:37:01 <jaromil> it's always a matter to smack it up in place
2106 2011-04-25 18:37:10 <jaromil> but if you have the compiled mingw libs is a good start already
2107 2011-04-25 18:37:17 <jaromil> i mean the dependencies
2108 2011-04-25 18:37:31 <BlueMatt> Ive got all the deps and such compiled
2109 2011-04-25 18:37:38 <jlewis> has anyone written a glsl shader that computes sha256 hashes?
2110 2011-04-25 18:37:49 <BlueMatt> jaromil: not really sure what you are talking about
2111 2011-04-25 18:38:04 <BlueMatt> jlewis: why would someone do that? we already have great opencl miners
2112 2011-04-25 18:39:00 <jlewis> it's harder to get opencl running on any given machine than opengl
2113 2011-04-25 18:39:34 <jlewis> it would be neat to see a glsl shader too, just for proof of concept's sake
2114 2011-04-25 18:39:36 <BlueMatt> not really
2115 2011-04-25 18:39:47 <BlueMatt> but ask ArtForzZz
2116 2011-04-25 18:39:51 Incitatus has joined
2117 2011-04-25 18:39:56 <BlueMatt> hes the one who did most of the opencl kernel stuff
2118 2011-04-25 18:39:57 <jlewis> opencl requires fancy drivers for the most part, doesn't it?
2119 2011-04-25 18:40:01 <BlueMatt> (well when he wakes up)
2120 2011-04-25 18:40:08 <BlueMatt> jlewis: and opengl does too
2121 2011-04-25 18:40:18 <jlewis> but they're more commonplace
2122 2011-04-25 18:40:18 <BlueMatt> the oss ogl drivers suck
2123 2011-04-25 18:40:20 <BlueMatt> really hard
2124 2011-04-25 18:40:39 <jlewis> additionally how sweet would a webgl mining client be
2125 2011-04-25 18:40:44 <jlewis> highly sweet
2126 2011-04-25 18:40:53 <BlueMatt> jlewis: no if you use nvidia/amd's regular drivers, they almost 100% come with opencl stuff
2127 2011-04-25 18:41:00 <jlewis> fair
2128 2011-04-25 18:41:08 <BlueMatt> jlewis: there will eventually be a webcl (its in the works)
2129 2011-04-25 18:41:24 <jlewis> indeed, but until then
2130 2011-04-25 18:42:32 <jlewis> in any case i've been toying around with writing the hashing algorithm in glsl, just wanted to see if there'd been some work done already on it
2131 2011-04-25 18:42:41 Greek_o_nikos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2132 2011-04-25 18:43:06 Greek_o_nikos has joined
2133 2011-04-25 18:43:18 <CIA-89> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rcf70444dfbb4 gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/ (Manifest bitcoin-0.3.21_rc.ebuild bitcoin-9999.ebuild): net-p2p/bitcoin: add missing dependency on net-libs/miniupnpc http://tinyurl.com/42lsmvu
2134 2011-04-25 18:46:47 lumos has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2135 2011-04-25 18:47:27 <dotblank> anyone know of a c++/c implementation of secp256k1
2136 2011-04-25 18:47:31 <dotblank> that is open source
2137 2011-04-25 18:47:53 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2138 2011-04-25 18:48:18 <dotblank> I'm guessing that would be bitcoin.. as this isnt very commonly used
2139 2011-04-25 18:49:08 <roconnor> I'm told bitcoin uses openssl for the elliptic curve operations.
2140 2011-04-25 18:50:12 bitcoiner has joined
2141 2011-04-25 18:51:24 dust- has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2142 2011-04-25 18:51:28 <dotblank> hmm I'm looking through openssl and I don't see much ECDSA api functions.. although I do see some code
2143 2011-04-25 18:51:30 <BlueMatt> jaromil: ok, what needs removed to compile (it seems) is -I/usr/include (that is in no way where my win32 *.h are)
2144 2011-04-25 18:51:35 <topi`> jaromil: have you seen this?
2145 2011-04-25 18:51:35 <topi`> undefined reference to `boost::this_thread::sleep(boost::posix_time::ptime const&)'
2146 2011-04-25 18:51:35 <jaromil> ack
2147 2011-04-25 18:51:36 <dotblank> perhaps its not documentet
2148 2011-04-25 18:51:39 <BlueMatt> jaromil: also, -w would be nice as there is just too much crap
2149 2011-04-25 18:51:42 dust- has joined
2150 2011-04-25 18:51:56 <jaromil> -w stands for no warnings?
2151 2011-04-25 18:51:57 <topi`> also missing a lib, I think, but this time the checks in autoconf did not notice this.
2152 2011-04-25 18:52:00 <BlueMatt> jaromil: yes
2153 2011-04-25 18:52:04 <jaromil> BlueMatt: the crap goes away with 'make' alone
2154 2011-04-25 18:52:08 <jaromil> you are using make V=1
2155 2011-04-25 18:52:26 <dotblank> ah it uses crypto++
2156 2011-04-25 18:52:32 <BlueMatt> jaromil: oh, ok well Ive been running the commands manually so that I can test
2157 2011-04-25 18:52:42 <BlueMatt> jaromil: lastly, I need to be able to specify a ton of -I"..." for boost, wx, openssl, etc
2158 2011-04-25 18:52:45 <dotblank> twas what I thought
2159 2011-04-25 18:52:54 <BlueMatt> other than that it looks like this should work
2160 2011-04-25 18:53:17 <TD> dotblank: for ecdsa it uses openssl
2161 2011-04-25 18:53:21 <dotblank> BlueMatt, we need the automake/tools solution
2162 2011-04-25 18:53:26 <luke-jr> my daughter got 87.5% correct on her math work
2163 2011-04-25 18:53:39 <AmpEater> ;;bc,stats 7000000
2164 2011-04-25 18:53:41 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120154 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 805 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 20 hours, 16 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 104184.49835047
2165 2011-04-25 18:53:43 <dotblank> TD, really? I don't see any documentation about libssl that uses ecdsa
2166 2011-04-25 18:53:50 <TD> look in key.h
2167 2011-04-25 18:53:51 <AmpEater> ;;bc,gen 7000000
2168 2011-04-25 18:53:52 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 7000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 76.2423642188 BTC per day and 3.17676517578 BTC per hour.
2169 2011-04-25 18:53:54 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: was the % wrong because she tried to specify answers in tonal?
2170 2011-04-25 18:54:01 <dotblank> I found cryptopp supports it and bicoin uses it
2171 2011-04-25 18:54:15 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, one answer was off by 1
2172 2011-04-25 18:54:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: all her answers are specified in tonal
2173 2011-04-25 18:54:31 <BlueMatt> dotblank: yes, I know that...Im working to help jaromil write it for mingw on linux
2174 2011-04-25 18:54:44 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why the hell would you teach someone in tonal?
2175 2011-04-25 18:54:50 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: because it's a better system
2176 2011-04-25 18:54:57 <BlueMatt> ok well have fun with that
2177 2011-04-25 18:55:02 <luke-jr> also easier
2178 2011-04-25 18:55:17 <BlueMatt> what school does she go to that she can use tonal?
2179 2011-04-25 18:55:21 <BlueMatt> or is she homeschooled?
2180 2011-04-25 18:55:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: schools are for idiots
2181 2011-04-25 18:56:11 <BlueMatt> ok have fun with that
2182 2011-04-25 18:56:25 <topi`> luke sounds like a true libertarian :)
2183 2011-04-25 18:56:45 <BlueMatt> topi`: I know many libertarians, and none of them know/want to know wtf tonal is
2184 2011-04-25 18:56:47 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
2185 2011-04-25 18:56:58 <topi`> i'm myself more an anarcho-communist, in the way of kropotkin
2186 2011-04-25 18:57:11 <lyspooner> kropotkin ftl
2187 2011-04-25 18:57:16 <topi`> BlueMatt: I have absolutely no idea what tonal is.
2188 2011-04-25 18:57:31 <dotblank> TD, you are right
2189 2011-04-25 18:57:34 AmpEater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2190 2011-04-25 18:57:40 <BlueMatt> topi`: its what luke uses, and believe me, you dont want to know what it is
2191 2011-04-25 18:57:52 <luke-jr> topi`: I work hard to resist my libertarian inclinations.
2192 2011-04-25 18:58:05 <grbgout> topi`: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_BitCoin
2193 2011-04-25 18:58:14 <luke-jr> grbgout: that's just TBC, not Tonal in general :p
2194 2011-04-25 18:58:16 <dotblank> uses ECDSA_sign
2195 2011-04-25 18:58:23 <luke-jr> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonal_System
2196 2011-04-25 18:58:23 <grbgout> luke-jr: very good.
2197 2011-04-25 18:59:59 <genjix> luke-jr: i believe the world should speak esperanto, but i'd still teach my child in english
2198 2011-04-25 19:00:11 <luke-jr> genjix: that's silly.
2199 2011-04-25 19:00:16 <luke-jr> the latter bit I mean
2200 2011-04-25 19:00:43 <genjix> maybe, but i'd be worried about my kid resenting me when i grew up for forcing m beliefs on them
2201 2011-04-25 19:01:00 <genjix> expose them to alternative ideas is fine.
2202 2011-04-25 19:01:09 <luke-jr> English is no less a "belief" than Esperanto
2203 2011-04-25 19:01:35 <topi`> ah, interesting
2204 2011-04-25 19:01:41 <luke-jr> and if they resent being taught according to your beliefs, you're doing something wrong
2205 2011-04-25 19:02:05 <luke-jr> that's how children are supposed to be taught
2206 2011-04-25 19:02:33 <BlueMatt> well thats just downright criminal
2207 2011-04-25 19:02:34 jaromil has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2208 2011-04-25 19:04:27 <dotblank> unsigned char pchSig[10000];
2209 2011-04-25 19:04:35 <dotblank> seems a bit arbituary to me
2210 2011-04-25 19:04:39 Construct has left ()
2211 2011-04-25 19:04:47 grbgout has quit (Quit: bbl)
2212 2011-04-25 19:05:40 <BlueMatt> dotblank: is it exploitable?
2213 2011-04-25 19:05:56 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2214 2011-04-25 19:06:01 <dotblank> BlueMatt, don't know...
2215 2011-04-25 19:06:14 <genjix> BlueMatt: maybe you don't intend it, but you sometimes come across on the net as too bullish
2216 2011-04-25 19:06:23 <dotblank> thats on the stack
2217 2011-04-25 19:06:32 <genjix> people can think differently and that's ok
2218 2011-04-25 19:08:05 chmod755 has joined
2219 2011-04-25 19:08:28 <topi`> genjix: thats what the internets are for :D so that we can behave as bullish as we want :D
2220 2011-04-25 19:08:41 <topi`> without consequences! nobody can poke you in the eye in the 'net
2221 2011-04-25 19:09:21 <sethsethseth> oh hi genjix
2222 2011-04-25 19:09:28 <genjix> hi sethsethseth
2223 2011-04-25 19:09:55 <sethsethseth> what projects are you working on now?
2224 2011-04-25 19:10:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no u
2225 2011-04-25 19:10:17 <genjix> sethsethseth: a bunch of stuff
2226 2011-04-25 19:10:21 <roconnor> dotblank: welcome to C programming 1970's style :D
2227 2011-04-25 19:10:28 gjs278 has joined
2228 2011-04-25 19:10:44 <roconnor> 10000 entries should be enought for anyone
2229 2011-04-25 19:12:34 <dotblank> ugh so many variable ints
2230 2011-04-25 19:12:39 <dotblank> in proto
2231 2011-04-25 19:13:56 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
2232 2011-04-25 19:13:58 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120155 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 804 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 20 hours, 8 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 104204.72049689
2233 2011-04-25 19:18:54 <midnightmagic> wow
2234 2011-04-25 19:20:00 <midnightmagic> 12.8%
2235 2011-04-25 19:21:40 dust- has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2236 2011-04-25 19:22:27 dust- has joined
2237 2011-04-25 19:23:50 <BlueMatt> genjix: yea, never intend to come off as bullish or a troll, though I often come across as a troll when Im just trying to be sarcastic
2238 2011-04-25 19:24:05 <netxshare> I have the 5970 running mem: 300mhz core: 800mhz temp is 70-73c hash is 590-600ish
2239 2011-04-25 19:24:05 <BlueMatt> genjix: about 90% of what I normally saw has some amount of sarcasm
2240 2011-04-25 19:24:12 <BlueMatt> which does tend to cause problems on the internet...
2241 2011-04-25 19:24:37 <midnightmagic> netxshare: and how did you end up underclocking mem to 300?
2242 2011-04-25 19:24:58 <netxshare> used msi afterburner
2243 2011-04-25 19:25:19 <netxshare> you have to edit msiafterburer.cfg
2244 2011-04-25 19:25:26 <netxshare> to allow you to go under 500mhz on the mem
2245 2011-04-25 19:27:10 <phantomcircuit> topi`, i have been working long hours to perfect my machine for stabbing people in the face over the internet
2246 2011-04-25 19:27:38 <genjix> tcatm: around?
2247 2011-04-25 19:27:57 <BlueMatt> meh, Im a fairly public person...you can always `whois bluematt.me` if you want to come by and stab me
2248 2011-04-25 19:27:59 <BlueMatt> ;
2249 2011-04-25 19:28:01 <BlueMatt> )
2250 2011-04-25 19:28:22 <genjix> assume good intent always <- my policy
2251 2011-04-25 19:28:56 <BlueMatt> I try to, doesnt always come across that way though
2252 2011-04-25 19:29:04 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2253 2011-04-25 19:29:22 <genjix> i mean thats why i realised you're not a bastard... because i assume good intent :p
2254 2011-04-25 19:29:36 RazielZ has quit ()
2255 2011-04-25 19:30:40 <luke-jr> there, C. has corrected her homework :P
2256 2011-04-25 19:31:29 <luke-jr> it was probably her most difficult question: la + po
2257 2011-04-25 19:31:43 mbarkhau has joined
2258 2011-04-25 19:31:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you know no one has any clue wtf that even means
2259 2011-04-25 19:32:01 <luke-jr> in hex, d + e
2260 2011-04-25 19:32:05 <BlueMatt> ah
2261 2011-04-25 19:32:17 <BlueMatt> shame, she cant cheat and use her hands ;)
2262 2011-04-25 19:32:23 <luke-jr> you couldn't in decimal either
2263 2011-04-25 19:32:30 <luke-jr> it'd be like 7 + 8
2264 2011-04-25 19:32:38 <BlueMatt> you can just go up to 10 and restart
2265 2011-04-25 19:32:40 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2266 2011-04-25 19:32:48 <BlueMatt> you cant do that in hex
2267 2011-04-25 19:32:49 <genjix> luke-jr: i can't add up very well at all
2268 2011-04-25 19:32:49 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if you're used to adding
2269 2011-04-25 19:32:57 <genjix> luke-jr: but my maths is pretty strong :p
2270 2011-04-25 19:32:59 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: you can use each hand as a single tonal digit
2271 2011-04-25 19:33:11 <luke-jr> 4 bits each
2272 2011-04-25 19:33:25 <BurtyB> lmao
2273 2011-04-25 19:33:27 <BlueMatt> I cant do any kind of mental math, though my actual math is fairly strong
2274 2011-04-25 19:33:35 <BlueMatt> well for a high schooler...
2275 2011-04-25 19:33:47 <BlueMatt> though I did take ap calc in sophomore year
2276 2011-04-25 19:34:04 <luke-jr> I draw a 4x4 square for her to count tons in
2277 2011-04-25 19:34:16 <BlueMatt> that just sounds way too complicated
2278 2011-04-25 19:34:21 <docl> it bugs me that hex and tonal even use 8 and 9...
2279 2011-04-25 19:34:25 <BlueMatt> just tell her each finger == 1 and count in decimal
2280 2011-04-25 19:34:31 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's been too long since you learned addition
2281 2011-04-25 19:34:45 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I never learned addition actually
2282 2011-04-25 19:34:48 <luke-jr> XD
2283 2011-04-25 19:34:51 <docl> they are double-octal systems, they should only be using 0-7
2284 2011-04-25 19:35:03 <mtrlt> i like binary. middle finger or no middle finger
2285 2011-04-25 19:35:20 <BlueMatt> I prefer base 126 just because its a pita
2286 2011-04-25 19:35:26 <luke-jr> docl: I'd personally prefer 0x10 entirely new digits
2287 2011-04-25 19:35:37 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: could be worse. you could pick a prime.
2288 2011-04-25 19:35:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: and omit the 0
2289 2011-04-25 19:35:54 <chmod755> BlueMatt: base 126? :D
2290 2011-04-25 19:36:04 <BlueMatt> fair enough, make that 701
2291 2011-04-25 19:36:12 <BlueMatt> I count in base-701
2292 2011-04-25 19:36:20 <luke-jr> actually, base 126 could have some practical value, if it weren't so freaking huge
2293 2011-04-25 19:36:36 <luke-jr> it can be factored to 7*3*3*2
2294 2011-04-25 19:36:36 <mtrlt> base-googolplex
2295 2011-04-25 19:36:43 <BlueMatt> 128 could probably be better
2296 2011-04-25 19:36:44 <chmod755> lol
2297 2011-04-25 19:36:54 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: 128 would be akin to tonal, but still too huge :P
2298 2011-04-25 19:36:58 <BlueMatt> mtrlt: that might be a pita, plus how many fucking chars do you have?
2299 2011-04-25 19:37:08 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2300 2011-04-25 19:37:17 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: base 60 is written in decimal sequences
2301 2011-04-25 19:37:21 <mtrlt> :D
2302 2011-04-25 19:37:21 <luke-jr> eg, 1;59;33
2303 2011-04-25 19:37:32 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: who is that much of a massachist?
2304 2011-04-25 19:37:39 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: most people, it seems
2305 2011-04-25 19:37:41 <chmod755> I prefer base 48565078965739782930984189469428613770744208735135792401965207366869851340104723744696879743992611751097377770102744752804905883138403754970998790965395522701171215702597466699324022683459661960603485174249773584685188556745702571254749996482194184655710084119086259716947970799152004866709975923596061320725973797993618860631691447358830024533697278181391479795551339994939488289984691783610018259789010316019618350343448956870538
2306 2011-04-25 19:37:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: IIRC most people dont count in base 60
2307 2011-04-25 19:38:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: everyone I know who doesn't use tonal or dozenal, uses base 60 for their clocks
2308 2011-04-25 19:38:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: how many people do you know who use non-decimak?
2309 2011-04-25 19:38:17 <mtrlt> except for hours which go to 24 :(
2310 2011-04-25 19:38:24 <BlueMatt> I thought you were the only one
2311 2011-04-25 19:38:27 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: too many to try counting
2312 2011-04-25 19:38:47 <BlueMatt> literally, I thought you were the only one in the world still using tonal
2313 2011-04-25 19:38:50 <docl> my system would be superimposed variants of | / \ -
2314 2011-04-25 19:38:53 taco_the_paco has joined
2315 2011-04-25 19:39:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: admittedly, there are more dozenal users than tonal :/
2316 2011-04-25 19:39:24 <BlueMatt> wtf is dozenal?
2317 2011-04-25 19:39:27 <luke-jr> base 6*2
2318 2011-04-25 19:39:28 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2319 2011-04-25 19:39:40 <BlueMatt> why?...just why?
2320 2011-04-25 19:39:46 <luke-jr> it factors to 3*2*2
2321 2011-04-25 19:39:51 <BlueMatt> so?
2322 2011-04-25 19:40:02 <luke-jr> after half, a third is the most common fraction for humans
2323 2011-04-25 19:40:20 <luke-jr> Dozenal can write a third without repetition
2324 2011-04-25 19:40:33 <BlueMatt> ah, still a waste of time, I just use fractions
2325 2011-04-25 19:40:35 <luke-jr> 0;4 Dozenal is 1/3
2326 2011-04-25 19:40:38 <mtrlt> but hexadecimal cannot :(
2327 2011-04-25 19:40:52 <luke-jr> mtrlt: hexadecimal/tonal cannot, but it has superior precision than decimal ;)
2328 2011-04-25 19:41:03 <mtrlt> precision?
2329 2011-04-25 19:41:12 <mtrlt> i'm not sure i understand :P
2330 2011-04-25 19:41:22 <luke-jr> mtrlt: one digit of 1/3 in hexadecimal/tonal, is closer to a real 1/3
2331 2011-04-25 19:41:25 <docl> more useful for accessing memory addresses
2332 2011-04-25 19:41:28 <topi`> decimal is slightly cumbersome, but that has to do with the fact that humans have 10 fingers...
2333 2011-04-25 19:41:30 <chmod755> BUY TONAL CARROTS
2334 2011-04-25 19:41:36 <luke-jr> that is, 0.5 hex/tonal is closer to 1/3 than 0.3 is
2335 2011-04-25 19:41:39 <BlueMatt> NEED MORE CARROTS
2336 2011-04-25 19:41:46 <mtrlt> luke-jr: of course
2337 2011-04-25 19:41:57 <mtrlt> and in base-256 it'd be even closer :P
2338 2011-04-25 19:42:01 <luke-jr> :P
2339 2011-04-25 19:42:03 <topi`> but i can read hexadecimal fluently ;) that has to do with my youth with the C64 assembler language.
2340 2011-04-25 19:42:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: by that logic, people should use base-googleplex
2341 2011-04-25 19:42:25 <mtrlt> yea, what BlueMatt said
2342 2011-04-25 19:42:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if you ignore all the costs of base googleplex
2343 2011-04-25 19:42:40 TheKid has joined
2344 2011-04-25 19:42:40 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
2345 2011-04-25 19:42:40 TheKid has joined
2346 2011-04-25 19:42:54 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so why not base 17 or base 20 or 18 or 22 or 24?
2347 2011-04-25 19:42:59 <BlueMatt> not as much cost - more precision
2348 2011-04-25 19:43:03 <luke-jr> dozenal and tonal both have benefit:cost ratios that outweigh decimal
2349 2011-04-25 19:43:04 <topi`> a9 00 8d 20 d0 60
2350 2011-04-25 19:43:07 JackRabiit has joined
2351 2011-04-25 19:43:10 <JackRabiit> heyoo
2352 2011-04-25 19:43:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: DSA has a comparison of all the bases up to 60
2353 2011-04-25 19:43:22 <Diablo-D3> [03:34:21] <godzilla> Diablo-D3's fortune for today is: You are blessed, today is the day to bless others.
2354 2011-04-25 19:43:25 <docl> actually I kind of think octal would be more natural. less numerals to learn, and the human brain only holds 8 things at a time anyway.
2355 2011-04-25 19:43:27 <topi`> (the 6502 was little-endian)
2356 2011-04-25 19:43:29 <Diablo-D3> apparently, Im the pope now
2357 2011-04-25 19:43:43 <JackRabiit> Could anyone Give me 3Ã? Im short for a purchase...
2358 2011-04-25 19:44:12 <topi`> I thought they would have gotten rid of the use of à in the german language?
2359 2011-04-25 19:44:21 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: http://www.vincico.com/arqam/DigitBaseRelationship.pdf
2360 2011-04-25 19:44:21 <topi`> Ã -> ss
2361 2011-04-25 19:44:33 <Diablo-D3> ...
2362 2011-04-25 19:44:36 <JackRabiit> whats wrong with using à for Ãitcoins
2363 2011-04-25 19:44:46 * Diablo-D3 smacks topi`
2364 2011-04-25 19:44:48 <docl> ssitcoins?
2365 2011-04-25 19:44:55 <luke-jr> JackRabiit: BTC works fine
2366 2011-04-25 19:45:02 <JackRabiit> yeah i know it does
2367 2011-04-25 19:45:06 molecular has joined
2368 2011-04-25 19:45:24 <mbarkhau> is à on non german keyboards?
2369 2011-04-25 19:45:27 skeledrew has joined
2370 2011-04-25 19:45:34 <JackRabiit> Im using alt+0223 to type it
2371 2011-04-25 19:45:48 <chmod755> Ã
2372 2011-04-25 19:45:50 <JackRabiit> it's not on my keyboard (qwerty canada)
2373 2011-04-25 19:45:57 <luke-jr> cowards, just add a new character to your keymap if you insist
2374 2011-04-25 19:46:01 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea...no. Decimal is used and supported. There is no real advantage to changing that outweighs the huge cost of changing
2375 2011-04-25 19:46:09 <BlueMatt> plus I can add on my fingers ;)
2376 2011-04-25 19:46:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes there is. :P
2377 2011-04-25 19:46:41 <chmod755> mbarkhau: where's the latin capital letter sharp s?
2378 2011-04-25 19:46:41 <JackRabiit> So is anyone willing to part with 3btc to cover my shortages on a purchase...
2379 2011-04-25 19:46:42 <BlueMatt> who needs Ã? its not even used in germany anymore (well they are slowly moving away from it)
2380 2011-04-25 19:46:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: he wants to use à to mean BTC
2381 2011-04-25 19:46:54 <docl> BlueMatt: no you need your thumbs too with decimal
2382 2011-04-25 19:47:00 <BlueMatt> well thats just a bad idea
2383 2011-04-25 19:47:19 <JackRabiit> Not as bad of an idea as using the Thai Bhat
2384 2011-04-25 19:47:19 <BlueMatt> wasnt there some forum vote on btc symbol?>
2385 2011-04-25 19:47:25 <JackRabiit> yeah there was
2386 2011-04-25 19:47:26 <BlueMatt> JackRabiit: that I agree with
2387 2011-04-25 19:47:33 <BlueMatt> Wasnt the result a B in a circle
2388 2011-04-25 19:48:11 <luke-jr> â
2389 2011-04-25 19:48:18 <JackRabiit> Yeah......
2390 2011-04-25 19:48:20 <BlueMatt> or was it a capital b?
2391 2011-04-25 19:48:20 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2392 2011-04-25 19:48:21 incidence has joined
2393 2011-04-25 19:48:26 <mbarkhau> chmod755: you mean on the keyboard?
2394 2011-04-25 19:48:31 <luke-jr> how about áµ
2395 2011-04-25 19:48:32 xlogik has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2396 2011-04-25 19:48:34 <chmod755> mbarkhau: yup
2397 2011-04-25 19:48:37 <JackRabiit> Too small
2398 2011-04-25 19:48:42 <BlueMatt> now thats just hard to read
2399 2011-04-25 19:48:43 <luke-jr> :P
2400 2011-04-25 19:48:45 <chmod755> b#
2401 2011-04-25 19:48:48 <[Noodles]> why is using the Thai Bhat symbol a bad idea? lots of currencies use the $ symbol, but only one can use the Bhat?
2402 2011-04-25 19:48:53 <mbarkhau> two keys left of backspace
2403 2011-04-25 19:48:55 incidence has quit (Changing host)
2404 2011-04-25 19:48:55 incidence has joined
2405 2011-04-25 19:48:55 <JackRabiit> So anyone? 3btc?
2406 2011-04-25 19:49:03 <luke-jr> mbarkhau: _ ?
2407 2011-04-25 19:49:06 <Diablo-D3> [Noodles]: btw, $ is the dollar symbol
2408 2011-04-25 19:49:15 <Diablo-D3> only currencies with dollar in their name can legitimately use it
2409 2011-04-25 19:49:17 <JackRabiit> No it would be a bad idea to use the that bhat as the "new symbol for bitcoins"
2410 2011-04-25 19:49:22 <mbarkhau> well obviously on german keyboard layout
2411 2011-04-25 19:49:22 <luke-jr> oh I know! â¡
2412 2011-04-25 19:49:28 <Diablo-D3> so unless we start calling it BitBhats
2413 2011-04-25 19:49:34 <Diablo-D3> we cant use the bhat symbol
2414 2011-04-25 19:49:40 <luke-jr> we can use â¡
2415 2011-04-25 19:49:51 <JackRabiit> Why the number three?
2416 2011-04-25 19:49:52 <luke-jr> or ¿
2417 2011-04-25 19:49:58 <JackRabiit> lol luke wth
2418 2011-04-25 19:49:58 <mtrlt> haha
2419 2011-04-25 19:49:58 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: not sure how that represents bitcoin...its too hard to come up with a good symbol
2420 2011-04-25 19:50:08 <luke-jr> fine, â§
2421 2011-04-25 19:50:09 <Diablo-D3> you do know
2422 2011-04-25 19:50:15 <Diablo-D3> theres a unicode symbol for (b)
2423 2011-04-25 19:50:19 <mtrlt> i support inverse question mark
2424 2011-04-25 19:50:21 <Diablo-D3> b with a circle in it
2425 2011-04-25 19:50:33 <Diablo-D3> er a circle with b in it
2426 2011-04-25 19:50:37 <luke-jr> ok. final decision: let's use â
2427 2011-04-25 19:50:47 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: I posted that earlier
2428 2011-04-25 19:50:53 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: there's also a parenthesised one
2429 2011-04-25 19:51:02 <luke-jr> â vs â
2430 2011-04-25 19:51:21 <luke-jr> so anyhow, JackRabiit needs â 3
2431 2011-04-25 19:51:28 <JackRabiit> Soooo I havent been given a No.... could anyone please send me 3BTC?
2432 2011-04-25 19:51:29 <Diablo-D3> â·
2433 2011-04-25 19:51:30 <JackRabiit> yeah
2434 2011-04-25 19:51:31 <JackRabiit> .....
2435 2011-04-25 19:51:34 <BlueMatt> 24D1 or 24B7
2436 2011-04-25 19:51:39 <Diablo-D3> thats 24B7
2437 2011-04-25 19:51:47 <BlueMatt> â
2438 2011-04-25 19:51:51 <BlueMatt> is 24D1
2439 2011-04-25 19:51:57 <BlueMatt> I vote for capital
2440 2011-04-25 19:52:02 <luke-jr> I vote for â
2441 2011-04-25 19:52:10 dust- has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2442 2011-04-25 19:52:15 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: what is that even?
2443 2011-04-25 19:52:26 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: look it up if your font sucks
2444 2011-04-25 19:52:36 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no I just use a smallish font
2445 2011-04-25 19:52:39 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
2446 2011-04-25 19:52:41 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
2447 2011-04-25 19:52:44 <BlueMatt> oh skulls
2448 2011-04-25 19:52:47 <BlueMatt> lol
2449 2011-04-25 19:52:50 <Diablo-D3> I think thats the skull and cross bone symbol
2450 2011-04-25 19:52:52 <Diablo-D3> ie, posion
2451 2011-04-25 19:52:56 <BlueMatt> yea
2452 2011-04-25 19:52:58 dust- has joined
2453 2011-04-25 19:53:38 <luke-jr> either that or â
2454 2011-04-25 19:53:46 tenach has joined
2455 2011-04-25 19:53:57 <luke-jr> oh, â is for centiBTC
2456 2011-04-25 19:54:08 <JackRabiit> luke-jr: are you willing to give me 3BTC? i've been mentioned in the Honest traders thread twice and i've got more than 150 posts...
2457 2011-04-25 19:54:21 <luke-jr> JackRabiit: for 10 USD, sure
2458 2011-04-25 19:54:27 <JackRabiit> x.x
2459 2011-04-25 19:54:27 <BlueMatt> JackRabiit: what % more are you paying back?
2460 2011-04-25 19:54:37 <JackRabiit> 3btc,payback5
2461 2011-04-25 19:54:51 <BlueMatt> address and Ill send
2462 2011-04-25 19:54:58 <BlueMatt> ;;getrating JackRabiit
2463 2011-04-25 19:54:58 <gribble> Error: This user has not yet been rated.
2464 2011-04-25 19:55:00 <JackRabiit> i'll PM you?
2465 2011-04-25 19:55:09 <BlueMatt> I thought you sid you were trusted?
2466 2011-04-25 19:55:21 <JackRabiit> I dont have a GPG/PGP key... Im in the honest traders thread i said
2467 2011-04-25 19:55:29 <BlueMatt> fair enough
2468 2011-04-25 19:55:38 <jlewis> what do people think about s3052's analyses on bitcoinwatch.com?
2469 2011-04-25 19:55:53 <BlueMatt> jlewis: probably a better question to ask on #bitcoin-otc
2470 2011-04-25 19:55:56 <netxshare> has anyone used https://www.kalyhost.com
2471 2011-04-25 19:56:04 <jlewis> point taken
2472 2011-04-25 19:56:14 <BlueMatt> though most people understand it is technical and thus often very wrong, but generally well respected
2473 2011-04-25 19:56:31 <BlueMatt> though for the most part he has been right quite often
2474 2011-04-25 19:56:36 peck has joined
2475 2011-04-25 19:56:47 <netxshare> I want to buy a domain with BTC but I want to make sure I can put fake whois info in
2476 2011-04-25 19:57:08 <netxshare> some places are more strict then others
2477 2011-04-25 19:59:54 sethsethseth has joined
2478 2011-04-25 20:02:03 <JackRabiit> hey everyone!~ BlueMatt is a really nice person!!....(no i was not enticed to say this~!)
2479 2011-04-25 20:02:25 <JackRabiit> BlueMatt: Thankyou!
2480 2011-04-25 20:02:34 <BlueMatt> np JackRabiit
2481 2011-04-25 20:04:58 mbarkhau has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2482 2011-04-25 20:08:02 <Diablo-D3> heh
2483 2011-04-25 20:08:28 <Blitzboom> forever â·ros
2484 2011-04-25 20:08:52 <BlueMatt> I vote against â·, because you can write â·ros
2485 2011-04-25 20:10:06 <Blitzboom> also, i havenât seen any attempts to move away from à yet, BlueMatt
2486 2011-04-25 20:10:21 <Blitzboom> thereâs a capital áº, too
2487 2011-04-25 20:11:03 <Blitzboom> Å¿ isnât being used anymore though
2488 2011-04-25 20:11:16 <luke-jr> â·â·â·
2489 2011-04-25 20:11:21 <chmod755> Blitzboom: BlueMatt said in Germany; not in Germna
2490 2011-04-25 20:11:31 <chmod755> s/Germna/German
2491 2011-04-25 20:11:33 <BlueMatt> Dont think Ive ever seen à used, though honestly I dont read any forums except dev anyway
2492 2011-04-25 20:11:42 <BlueMatt> chmod755: I said what?
2493 2011-04-25 20:12:45 <chmod755> (09:42:39 PM) BlueMatt: who needs Ã? its not even used in germany anymore (well they are slowly moving away from it)
2494 2011-04-25 20:13:50 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2495 2011-04-25 20:14:10 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2496 2011-04-25 20:14:43 <midnightmagic> à isn't as good as ฿.
2497 2011-04-25 20:14:50 <midnightmagic> wiggly versus awesome
2498 2011-04-25 20:15:09 <genjix> >B<
2499 2011-04-25 20:15:12 <BlueMatt> chmod755: well I meant german
2500 2011-04-25 20:15:16 <genjix> Bitcoin with wings
2501 2011-04-25 20:15:19 <genjix> >B<
2502 2011-04-25 20:15:24 <midnightmagic> ಠ_à²
2503 2011-04-25 20:15:36 <genjix> ಠ_à²
2504 2011-04-25 20:15:43 <genjix> i always use that smiley
2505 2011-04-25 20:16:08 <topi`> for some reason, it's the rpc.cpp file that takes >200 megabytes of RAM to compile
2506 2011-04-25 20:16:25 <genjix> topi`: that's the api
2507 2011-04-25 20:16:41 <genjix> topi`: although you can split it (i've done it before)
2508 2011-04-25 20:16:41 H4U has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
2509 2011-04-25 20:17:43 <topi`> i seem to have no possibility whatsoever of compiling it on my machine with 256M ram
2510 2011-04-25 20:17:49 <topi`> unless... I stop apache2 and everything else
2511 2011-04-25 20:18:58 dreamer_ has joined
2512 2011-04-25 20:24:06 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2513 2011-04-25 20:24:26 dreamer_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2514 2011-04-25 20:25:30 <topi`> hah, after the 'cc1' finishes, the 'as' eats up 146M of memory! i have never seen such a memory usage from 'as'
2515 2011-04-25 20:26:11 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2516 2011-04-25 20:27:00 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224])
2517 2011-04-25 20:28:04 ezl has joined
2518 2011-04-25 20:28:44 devon_hillard has joined
2519 2011-04-25 20:29:06 d-snp has joined
2520 2011-04-25 20:29:23 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2521 2011-04-25 20:29:29 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2522 2011-04-25 20:30:16 <topi`> util.cpp:(.text+0x1ff8): undefined reference to `boost::thread::start_thread()'
2523 2011-04-25 20:30:23 <midnightmagic> huh. for some reason my cards are now suddenly doing 600Mh. how did that happen?
2524 2011-04-25 20:30:28 <topi`> what kind of a lib am I missing? I just installed libboost-thread-1.42
2525 2011-04-25 20:31:45 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2526 2011-04-25 20:37:09 <topi`> stupid question, but why does bitcoind need threads if I don't want to compile in the WX gui?
2527 2011-04-25 20:38:00 Androgynous has joined
2528 2011-04-25 20:39:43 <TD> it's multi-threaded software
2529 2011-04-25 20:39:47 <TD> eg, mining runs in its own thread
2530 2011-04-25 20:39:53 <TD> handling IRC does as well
2531 2011-04-25 20:40:35 kermit has joined
2532 2011-04-25 20:41:12 berkes has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2533 2011-04-25 20:41:30 <TD> â· is cool but unfortunately Android doesn't have a font that can render it :-(
2534 2011-04-25 20:41:36 rly has joined
2535 2011-04-25 20:41:38 <TD> âoo
2536 2011-04-25 20:42:15 <rly> How does poolmining work? I.e., how does it defend against malicious clients?
2537 2011-04-25 20:43:45 <TD> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Pooled_Mining
2538 2011-04-25 20:44:09 <Androgynous> wrong one
2539 2011-04-25 20:44:17 <Androgynous> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Pooled_mining
2540 2011-04-25 20:44:29 jaromil has joined
2541 2011-04-25 20:44:36 <Androgynous> Bitcoin Pooled Mining
2542 2011-04-25 20:44:40 <Androgynous> is Slush's pool
2543 2011-04-25 20:45:25 sacarlson has joined
2544 2011-04-25 20:45:58 johnlockwood has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2545 2011-04-25 20:46:13 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2546 2011-04-25 20:46:14 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.701,"low":1.5211,"vol":13232,"buy":1.5451,"sell":1.5524,"last":1.53}}
2547 2011-04-25 20:48:12 <TD> that's weird
2548 2011-04-25 20:48:14 <jaromil> BlueMatt: sry if i dropped. my net did :X
2549 2011-04-25 20:48:21 <TD> my local node has stopped relaying blocks to my client
2550 2011-04-25 20:48:38 <BlueMatt> jaromil: not sure if you missed anything...
2551 2011-04-25 20:48:46 <rly> That is not nearly close to a protocol description, imho. Is there a detailed description somewhere?
2552 2011-04-25 20:48:56 <jaromil> BlueMatt: last thing was to take out -I/usr/include
2553 2011-04-25 20:49:22 <BlueMatt> BlueMatt> jaromil: oh, ok well Ive been running the commands manually so that I can test
2554 2011-04-25 20:49:22 <BlueMatt> <BlueMatt> jaromil: lastly, I need to be able to specify a ton of -I"..." for boost, wx, openssl, etc
2555 2011-04-25 20:49:27 <jaromil> yea
2556 2011-04-25 20:49:30 <BlueMatt> not sure if you missed those
2557 2011-04-25 20:49:30 <rly> Why would solving a small problem be related to the big problem?
2558 2011-04-25 20:49:33 <BlueMatt> but that should be it
2559 2011-04-25 20:49:35 <jaromil> ok
2560 2011-04-25 20:49:40 <jaromil> after that, it compiled?
2561 2011-04-25 20:49:43 <BlueMatt> ye
2562 2011-04-25 20:49:45 <BlueMatt> a
2563 2011-04-25 20:49:52 <BlueMatt> well I didnt do it all, just tested for one file
2564 2011-04-25 20:49:54 <BlueMatt> but it should
2565 2011-04-25 20:50:05 <jaromil> only a matter of -I ? (means mostly CXX flags then
2566 2011-04-25 20:50:11 <jaromil> ehh. i guess also -L then
2567 2011-04-25 20:50:18 <jaromil> and give the right libraries
2568 2011-04-25 20:50:57 <jaromil> now i'm not sure how your build system is designed, if there is a way to have .pc files like those in /usr/lib/pkg-config that tell configure where to find the mingw cross libs
2569 2011-04-25 20:51:18 <BlueMatt> well it would be nice to do that via ./configure --wx-libs-location --openssl-location ...
2570 2011-04-25 20:51:30 <BlueMatt> I think there already is for wx+boost but they didnt work for me
2571 2011-04-25 20:51:31 tenach has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2572 2011-04-25 20:52:04 <JackRabiit> #btc-otc
2573 2011-04-25 20:52:09 <JackRabiit> How do i go there
2574 2011-04-25 20:52:19 <BlueMatt> /join #bitcoin-otc
2575 2011-04-25 20:52:51 <JackRabiit> ty
2576 2011-04-25 20:54:40 <topi`> is there any way to find the start_thread() function of a boost lib? (boost::thread)
2577 2011-04-25 20:54:50 <jaromil> BlueMatt: those for wx or boost didn't work ?!
2578 2011-04-25 20:55:06 <jaromil> i'm more and more convinced we need cmake in place of autoconf
2579 2011-04-25 20:55:10 <BlueMatt> jaromil: they didnt create the -I s
2580 2011-04-25 20:55:10 <jaromil> for win
2581 2011-04-25 20:55:10 <topi`> for C libs, I can use 'nm' to find out which file in /usr/lib exports the function I was looking for.
2582 2011-04-25 20:55:16 <jaromil> ic
2583 2011-04-25 20:55:18 <BlueMatt> which it should of
2584 2011-04-25 20:55:30 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2585 2011-04-25 20:55:34 <rly> Can someone explain in short how pooled mining works?
2586 2011-04-25 20:55:45 <jaromil> one side q: did the old build system works still?
2587 2011-04-25 20:55:48 <rly> The wiki does not explain anything. That is just handwaving.
2588 2011-04-25 20:55:53 <jaromil> i mean, the makefile.mingw in the src/ dir?
2589 2011-04-25 20:55:59 <jaromil> with a bit of the usual tweaking?
2590 2011-04-25 20:56:19 JackRabiit has left ()
2591 2011-04-25 20:56:27 Blitzboom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2592 2011-04-25 20:56:46 Blitzboom has joined
2593 2011-04-25 20:56:46 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
2594 2011-04-25 20:56:46 Blitzboom has joined
2595 2011-04-25 20:57:25 <BlueMatt> not sure, didnt check
2596 2011-04-25 20:57:39 <jaromil> can now just to make sure?
2597 2011-04-25 20:57:47 <jaromil> if not np another time
2598 2011-04-25 20:57:52 <BlueMatt> 1 sec
2599 2011-04-25 20:57:54 <jaromil> k
2600 2011-04-25 21:00:53 <BlueMatt> no rule to make target obj/...
2601 2011-04-25 21:01:09 <BlueMatt> though that happens with all the makefiles
2602 2011-04-25 21:01:13 pirrr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2603 2011-04-25 21:01:27 lulzplzkthx has joined
2604 2011-04-25 21:02:13 <BlueMatt> appears to work if I revert to 84c3fb07
2605 2011-04-25 21:02:25 <jaromil> yes, sry i didn't tried before, i can reproduce that
2606 2011-04-25 21:03:09 <midnightmagic> DISPLAY:0.0: 304308 khash/s
2607 2011-04-25 21:03:12 <midnightmagic> cool!
2608 2011-04-25 21:03:19 EPiSKiNG has joined
2609 2011-04-25 21:03:26 <BlueMatt> what hardware?
2610 2011-04-25 21:03:30 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,stats
2611 2011-04-25 21:03:32 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120174 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 785 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 17 hours, 23 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 104598.07992986
2612 2011-04-25 21:03:52 <midnightmagic> plain 5970, OC'd to 775
2613 2011-04-25 21:04:08 <midnightmagic> sapphires and.. one powercolor I think. maybe two.
2614 2011-04-25 21:05:25 <midnightmagic> rly: what do you want to know?
2615 2011-04-25 21:05:25 dust- has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2616 2011-04-25 21:05:43 dust- has joined
2617 2011-04-25 21:05:49 <jaromil> midnightmagic: fire estinguisher close by? :D
2618 2011-04-25 21:06:00 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2619 2011-04-25 21:06:50 <midnightmagic> jaromil: temps @ 85C, maximum 50% fan. I have 6" vortex vtx600 blowing cold outside air @ 462 (filtered rating, so much higher in mine) cfm on the miners. :)
2620 2011-04-25 21:07:28 <midnightmagic> there will be no fires. :)
2621 2011-04-25 21:07:28 <jaromil> neat
2622 2011-04-25 21:08:07 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
2623 2011-04-25 21:08:10 <midnightmagic> i'm using a version of art's fan pid controllers for the fans, heavily-modified to the point only the PID algorithm itself is essentially unchanged. it works very nicely.
2624 2011-04-25 21:08:15 <necrodearia> Are any bitcoin developers interested in helping to better establish and develop Carrot? It is likely Python will be used instead of C++. Feel free to come to #carrot-dev (and #carrot for discussion) if interested.
2625 2011-04-25 21:08:26 <necrodearia> Also see http://weusecarrots.com/
2626 2011-04-25 21:08:30 <Androgynous> gtfo carrotfag
2627 2011-04-25 21:08:40 <rly> midnightmagic: I want to know what problem clients in poolmining solve and how it helps to solve a block.
2628 2011-04-25 21:08:53 <necrodearia> Androgynous, http://carrotmedia.witcoin.com/p/1351
2629 2011-04-25 21:09:07 <Androgynous> gtfo D:<
2630 2011-04-25 21:09:14 <BlueMatt> carrotfag, great term
2631 2011-04-25 21:09:53 <midnightmagic> soon i'll hook the vortexes' (one is an exhaust) fan controllers up to an arduino and plug that into the machines, insert some air pressure differential transducers to detect whether air is even flowing (in case some douchebag plugs my vents) and have an auto-shutdown..
2632 2011-04-25 21:10:36 <midnightmagic> rly: it doesn't help. but a pool will solve blocks very rapidly: and if you have a share in a pool, you get a tiny piece of the block every time it solves.
2633 2011-04-25 21:11:00 <midnightmagic> rly: so CPU miners can get tiny amounts of ฿ where they otherwise wouldn't see anything for a year.
2634 2011-04-25 21:11:38 <rly> midnightmagic: clearly the clients perform some kind of useful work.
2635 2011-04-25 21:11:59 <rly> midnightmagic: I am not discussing whether or not it is a smart move to make as a client.
2636 2011-04-25 21:12:00 <midnightmagic> rly: what i mean is, it doesn't technically help much to mine in a pool rather than solo mining.
2637 2011-04-25 21:12:08 <rly> midnightmagic: yes, I understood that.
2638 2011-04-25 21:12:25 <rly> midnightmagic: I am asking which problem clients are solving in a pool.
2639 2011-04-25 21:12:42 <rly> midnightmagic: example: why can't I just leave the pool when I find the solution?
2640 2011-04-25 21:12:43 <jaromil> Python will be used instead of C++ looool
2641 2011-04-25 21:12:48 <midnightmagic> rly: the useful work is, the clients are solving blocks with a lower difficulty (so the pools can detect whether a client is doing any work at all) and eventually one of those solutions also happens to be a real solution to the real network block problem and the block is solved.
2642 2011-04-25 21:13:20 <rly> midnightmagic: or can't I detect whether a solution has been found?
2643 2011-04-25 21:13:27 <midnightmagic> rly: because you are solving the pool's problem, not a real one, and it's obfuscated in such a way that you couldn't steal it on your own.
2644 2011-04-25 21:13:27 <rly> midnightmagic: I really do not understand the model.
2645 2011-04-25 21:13:40 <rly> midnightmagic: right, I heard about that.
2646 2011-04-25 21:13:47 <rly> midnightmagic: that is exactly the part I do not understand.
2647 2011-04-25 21:13:51 <midnightmagic> yeah, you can detect whether a solution has been found: but it's the pool's solution, not yours.
2648 2011-04-25 21:13:59 <jaromil> like "yea lets rewrite netsukuku in python" sounds familiar lol
2649 2011-04-25 21:14:01 docl has left ()
2650 2011-04-25 21:14:15 skeledrew has joined
2651 2011-04-25 21:14:15 <rly> midnightmagic: can you give an example of how this works?
2652 2011-04-25 21:15:06 <topi`> jaromil: but hey, python works :)
2653 2011-04-25 21:15:32 <topi`> although the status of stackless python right now is a bit dubious. if PyPy were in full swing, then it would be the thing.
2654 2011-04-25 21:15:34 <midnightmagic> mining blocks takes a series of hashes to mix in things like the top of a transaction tree's merkle tree, a nonce, and a few other bits and pieces. when you monkey around with the nonce to search for a solution, you're searching for a solution specific to all that.
2655 2011-04-25 21:15:57 <jaromil> topi`: if my grandpa had three balls he'd been a flipper
2656 2011-04-25 21:16:55 <rly> midnightmagic: we search for something like sha256(sha256(x+ <unknown y>)) == 00000000????
2657 2011-04-25 21:16:56 <midnightmagic> with the pool, the pool changes the difficulty and gives you an easier solution to solve. based on this wimpier solution, you find it much more often, and can therefore give feedback to the pool to prove you are in fact doing work. but it's their transaction tree, their infrmation. you can't do simultaneous work for your own solution (that mixes in your own keys, for example) and the pool's. you have to choose one or the other.
2658 2011-04-25 21:17:07 <jaromil> if you write a core engine, you write it in C or C++ and THEN expose bindings to other languages
2659 2011-04-25 21:17:14 <jaromil> the rest is carrotfaggin'
2660 2011-04-25 21:17:41 johnlockwood has joined
2661 2011-04-25 21:17:52 <midnightmagic> rly: in the network as a whole, we search for sha256(blah) <= target, where target is some number that gets smaller depending on how much the network scales up.
2662 2011-04-25 21:18:00 <rly> midnightmagic: ah, that makes sense.
2663 2011-04-25 21:18:47 <rly> midnightmagic: so, basically we are searching for an autograph of the poolminer's instance of Bitcoin saying "I found this block".
2664 2011-04-25 21:18:55 <midnightmagic> sort of.
2665 2011-04-25 21:19:22 <rly> midnightmagic: can a client decide whether a solution has been found?
2666 2011-04-25 21:19:25 <midnightmagic> and if you were to try to hijack that to pay for yourself, you'd have to look for a whole other solution.
2667 2011-04-25 21:19:43 <rly> midnightmagic: if it can, it could simply not send those to the pooloperator.
2668 2011-04-25 21:19:49 <midnightmagic> yeah, sure, you can stop yourself from presenting a block which is an actual solution. but then you're wasting your resources.
2669 2011-04-25 21:20:08 <rly> midnightmagic: then the pooloperator would be paying for shares, but he would never find a block.
2670 2011-04-25 21:20:17 <midnightmagic> but if you want to, you can sabotage it by witholding solutions.
2671 2011-04-25 21:20:28 <midnightmagic> only if the poolmaster pays for shares without finding a block.
2672 2011-04-25 21:20:51 <rly> midnightmagic: I had the impression that e.g. deepbit does that.
2673 2011-04-25 21:21:17 <midnightmagic> and of course, for his trouble, the poolmaster takes a percentage. technically he could take more than his fair share. but that's the chance you take if you are impatient and want instant results.
2674 2011-04-25 21:21:38 <midnightmagic> some pool closed recently because someone was sabotaging it. i don't recall the details nor did i seek confirmation
2675 2011-04-25 21:21:59 <midnightmagic> mmm.. lunch..
2676 2011-04-25 21:22:20 <rly> So, basically the poolmaster needs to worry about deciding whether people abuse the service by withholding solutions?
2677 2011-04-25 21:22:32 <midnightmagic> only if they pay without finding blocks.
2678 2011-04-25 21:22:42 <midnightmagic> if they pay only when the block is found, it kind of doesn't matter.
2679 2011-04-25 21:22:49 Zarutian has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2680 2011-04-25 21:23:00 <rly> Yes, thanks for your explanation.
2681 2011-04-25 21:23:21 <rly> midnightmagic: you should write an article about this :)
2682 2011-04-25 21:23:32 <midnightmagic> there are a pile of deeper details i'm glossing over (and couldn't off the top of my head explain anyway) but that's the gist i think.
2683 2011-04-25 21:23:53 <rly> I think Kiba wanted to have articles. "How do pools work - a technical explanation."
2684 2011-04-25 21:24:01 <midnightmagic> rly: I intend to do a long-ish video with my brother to explain the whole thing in a conversation, but that's a ways off from being complete.
2685 2011-04-25 21:24:27 <rly> I kind of hate these conversation things (the videos on youtube).
2686 2011-04-25 21:24:45 <midnightmagic> no, those suck. but real humans and diagrams i enjoy.
2687 2011-04-25 21:24:52 <rly> Ah, ok.
2688 2011-04-25 21:27:14 <midnightmagic> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnbYcB9ctu8 <-- this i think is awesome, for example
2689 2011-04-25 21:27:43 DingoRabiit has joined
2690 2011-04-25 21:28:02 <DingoRabiit> Heyooo looking for Pci-e riser cards
2691 2011-04-25 21:28:31 <DingoRabiit> x16 2.0 into pcie 1x
2692 2011-04-25 21:28:37 <DingoRabiit> (2.0)
2693 2011-04-25 21:28:55 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: I know someone who bought the necronomicon
2694 2011-04-25 21:29:22 Zarutian has joined
2695 2011-04-25 21:29:31 <midnightmagic> yeah me too.
2696 2011-04-25 21:29:34 <midnightmagic> me.
2697 2011-04-25 21:30:22 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: kinda creepy...
2698 2011-04-25 21:30:24 dust- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2699 2011-04-25 21:31:10 <midnightmagic> you're creepy.
2700 2011-04-25 21:31:37 <topi`> any way to suppress these "IRC got join" messages from the bitcoind debug.log?
2701 2011-04-25 21:31:46 <DingoRabiit> nvm im all good to go http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6128.0
2702 2011-04-25 21:31:49 DingoRabiit has quit (Client Quit)
2703 2011-04-25 21:31:54 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: that's more sarcasm right? or do you really think the neconomicon exists?
2704 2011-04-25 21:32:09 <BlueMatt> it does
2705 2011-04-25 21:32:16 <BlueMatt> it is a real book
2706 2011-04-25 21:32:21 <BlueMatt> though isnt it fake
2707 2011-04-25 21:32:27 <BlueMatt> like re-written or something
2708 2011-04-25 21:32:28 <midnightmagic> wait wait, lemme find the isbn.
2709 2011-04-25 21:32:35 <BlueMatt> lol
2710 2011-04-25 21:32:39 <BlueMatt> not sure it has one of those
2711 2011-04-25 21:33:01 <BlueMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necronomicon
2712 2011-04-25 21:33:07 <BlueMatt> yea its real, written in 1922
2713 2011-04-25 21:33:37 <rly> I had no idea a fictional book even existed.
2714 2011-04-25 21:33:41 <midnightmagic> yeah it does, just a sec.. 9780892541461
2715 2011-04-25 21:33:49 <midnightmagic> it doesn't, it's just people writing spoofs
2716 2011-04-25 21:33:50 <BlueMatt> lol, it has an isbn
2717 2011-04-25 21:33:57 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2718 2011-04-25 21:34:02 <rly> midnightmagic: I meant the concept.
2719 2011-04-25 21:34:04 <BlueMatt> yea not the official written in like 100 bc one
2720 2011-04-25 21:34:07 grbgout has joined
2721 2011-04-25 21:34:08 <rly> midnightmagic: not the book, which doesn't.
2722 2011-04-25 21:34:15 <BlueMatt> which doesnt exist
2723 2011-04-25 21:35:55 <midnightmagic> rly, give it time, eventually i'll learn you're not a screaming, gibbering "Bitcoins don't exist" crazy person. :)
2724 2011-04-25 21:36:13 <BlueMatt> wait, bitcoins exist...wtf?
2725 2011-04-25 21:36:53 agricocb1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2726 2011-04-25 21:39:30 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
2727 2011-04-25 21:39:32 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120183 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 776 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 15 hours, 52 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 105035.50403521
2728 2011-04-25 21:39:38 <luke-jr> hmm
2729 2011-04-25 21:39:44 <luke-jr> 4 days. I better get started on my pool
2730 2011-04-25 21:39:51 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 265000 105035
2731 2011-04-25 21:39:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 265000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 105035, is 2 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 52 minutes, and 26 seconds
2732 2011-04-25 21:40:28 <midnightmagic> that's beyond a difficulty notch
2733 2011-04-25 21:40:47 <luke-jr> ?
2734 2011-04-25 21:40:59 <midnightmagic> two weeks.
2735 2011-04-25 21:41:41 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: 4 days
2736 2011-04-25 21:42:42 <midnightmagic> no, i mean, that hashrate generates a solution only after more than one difficulty notch
2737 2011-04-25 21:42:49 <Androgynous> starting a pool, luke?
2738 2011-04-25 21:42:52 <Androgynous> or joining on?
2739 2011-04-25 21:42:53 robblesz has joined
2740 2011-04-25 21:42:54 <Androgynous> one*
2741 2011-04-25 21:42:57 tenach has joined
2742 2011-04-25 21:42:57 tenach has quit (Changing host)
2743 2011-04-25 21:42:57 tenach has joined
2744 2011-04-25 21:43:08 <luke-jr> Androgynous: starting
2745 2011-04-25 21:43:17 <Androgynous> i see
2746 2011-04-25 21:43:51 rly has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3)
2747 2011-04-25 21:44:17 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
2748 2011-04-25 21:50:20 Beremat has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2749 2011-04-25 21:54:49 gjs278 has joined
2750 2011-04-25 21:56:10 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r57 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
2751 2011-04-25 21:56:10 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: Allow formatting of negative BitCoin amounts, add a test for this.
2752 2011-04-25 21:56:10 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: Flush stderr/stdout when logging to try and keep them in sync.
2753 2011-04-25 21:56:10 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: Whitespace fixes.
2754 2011-04-25 21:56:43 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r58 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
2755 2011-04-25 21:56:43 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: Some small protocol fixes. Correct serialization of version and address messages.
2756 2011-04-25 21:56:43 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: Also require the height of the best chain to be specified when setting up a NetworkConnection. This API is getting too complicated and will be simplified soon.
2757 2011-04-25 21:56:43 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: For now these fixes resolve a bug whereby the peer would not send us new blocks discovered during a session (as it thought we already had them).
2758 2011-04-25 21:58:39 stamit has left ()
2759 2011-04-25 22:00:36 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r59 /trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
2760 2011-04-25 22:00:36 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: Second part of supporting block chain re-orgs. Wallet now organizes transactions
2761 2011-04-25 22:00:36 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: into four pools: unspent, spent, pending and inactive. Transactions track which
2762 2011-04-25 22:00:36 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: blocks they have appeared in. BlockChain provides the Wallet with both segments
2763 2011-04-25 22:00:36 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: of chain and it then moves transactions between the pools as necessary.
2764 2011-04-25 22:00:37 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: Activated the disabled tests in testForking, added a bunch more tests for this functionality.
2765 2011-04-25 22:00:38 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: Added various utility methods and made small fixes as required.
2766 2011-04-25 22:01:00 <fabianhjr> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fstore.gifti.us%2Ftop-sellers%2Fsilver-chopsticks.html&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:es-MX:official&client=firefox-a
2767 2011-04-25 22:01:45 mewantsbitcoins has joined
2768 2011-04-25 22:02:14 <fabianhjr> http://store.gifti.us/
2769 2011-04-25 22:02:22 <fabianhjr> Is it permanently offline?
2770 2011-04-25 22:02:33 m00p has joined
2771 2011-04-25 22:02:34 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2772 2011-04-25 22:03:04 mewantsbitcoins has left ()
2773 2011-04-25 22:04:09 has joined
2774 2011-04-25 22:04:37 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2775 2011-04-25 22:04:54 lianj has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2776 2011-04-25 22:05:39 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r60 /trunk/ (24 files in 3 dirs): Refresh JavaDocs.
2777 2011-04-25 22:06:41 lianj has joined
2778 2011-04-25 22:07:50 agricocb has joined
2779 2011-04-25 22:09:30 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r61 /trunk/docs/com/google/bitcoin/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Add some HTML files I missed in the last checkin.
2780 2011-04-25 22:10:42 Iechilov has joined
2781 2011-04-25 22:11:39 <necrodearia> Does the duration in which blocks being generated have a noticeable effect on the amount of data created and stored in the data files containing the blockchain? e.g. block generated every 10 minutes versus block generated every 10 seconds
2782 2011-04-25 22:11:46 <CIA-89> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r62 /trunk/docs/com/google/bitcoin/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Set mime types on new doc files
2783 2011-04-25 22:12:17 eternal1 has joined
2784 2011-04-25 22:16:14 mmoya has joined
2785 2011-04-25 22:16:27 Deltafire has left ("WeeChat 0.3.5-dev")
2786 2011-04-25 22:16:49 <djoot> necrodearia: a block created after 10 seconds is likely to have no transactions, so yes, significantly smaller
2787 2011-04-25 22:18:33 <necrodearia> djoot, Well, say for example there were 600 transactions in 10 minutes and in those 10 minutes, 10 transactions every 10 seconds. Would the data in the blockchain with 10 minute intervals be significantly smaller than the blockchain with 10 seconds intervals, or would the different in file size be negligable?
2788 2011-04-25 22:18:36 <djoot> hmm,, thats not quite what you asked tho
2789 2011-04-25 22:18:48 <ArtForz> each block header is 80 bytes
2790 2011-04-25 22:18:52 <necrodearia> mm
2791 2011-04-25 22:19:03 <ArtForz> same transaction volume = same transaction size
2792 2011-04-25 22:19:23 <ArtForz> so with faster blocks you'd have less tx/block, but more blocks = it evens out
2793 2011-04-25 22:19:41 <ArtForz> so it's simply overhead = 80B * num_blocks
2794 2011-04-25 22:20:36 <ArtForz> with 10 min blocks, thats ~11.5kB/day, with 10 sec blocks, it'd be ... about 60 times that
2795 2011-04-25 22:20:45 <ArtForz> data size really isn't the problem, network latency is
2796 2011-04-25 22:21:38 <Diablo-D3> 10 second blocks also make it easy to fork significantly from the chain
2797 2011-04-25 22:21:43 <ArtForz> yeah
2798 2011-04-25 22:21:46 <ArtForz> reduce block interval by an order of magnitude and you'll see # of chain forks skyrocket
2799 2011-04-25 22:22:15 <ArtForz> well, to provide the same level of security you'd just increase # of confirms before a tx is considered valid
2800 2011-04-25 22:22:44 <Diablo-D3> yeah but the relationship for that is nonlinear
2801 2011-04-25 22:22:52 <ArtForz> yep
2802 2011-04-25 22:22:56 <Diablo-D3> 3 at 10 minutes isnt the same as 6 at 5
2803 2011-04-25 22:23:15 <ArtForz> well, for proof-of-work purposes, it mostly is
2804 2011-04-25 22:23:33 <ArtForz> represents about the same amount of total work
2805 2011-04-25 22:23:58 <djoot> yeah, like in how many ghashes do i have to crunch to spoof this chain,, or something like that :)
2806 2011-04-25 22:23:59 <ArtForz> overall you'll get a weaker network though, as more hashpower is wasted on natural forks
2807 2011-04-25 22:24:13 <necrodearia> So, perhaps 10 minute interval was used to allow for enough time for the data to traverse to majority of nodes before another block was generated.
2808 2011-04-25 22:24:18 <ArtForz> yep
2809 2011-04-25 22:24:22 <djoot> aah, of course
2810 2011-04-25 22:25:03 <ArtForz> in times of high block rates (first /.ing), we had quite a few natural forks, and that at ~140 seconds/block with a still relatively small network
2811 2011-04-25 22:25:38 <ArtForz> I'm pretty sure 10 minutes is not completely arbitrary
2812 2011-04-25 22:25:57 <ArtForz> so far it looks like nearly none of the constants satoshi chose are
2813 2011-04-25 22:26:36 <ArtForz> probably 10 minutes is the minimum time where you get less than x % natural collisions at y seconds network latency
2814 2011-04-25 22:26:41 <BlueMatt> I believe network traversal is something like 1 minute in medium to large networks. Hence, you lose ~10% of blocks
2815 2011-04-25 22:26:47 <Blitzboom> how about 21 million coins?
2816 2011-04-25 22:27:05 <ArtForz> fits in mantissa of a double with 1 bit to spare
2817 2011-04-25 22:27:06 kermit has joined
2818 2011-04-25 22:28:40 <topi`> i wouldn't want to use floating points to represent actual money. who's going to get those rounding errors?
2819 2011-04-25 22:28:51 <topi`> 0.99999996 btc when I wanted to say 1.0
2820 2011-04-25 22:28:54 <ArtForz> what rounding errors?
2821 2011-04-25 22:29:03 <Diablo-D3> this is where I do my daily mention of ITS ILLEGAL IF THIS WAS REAL CURRENCY
2822 2011-04-25 22:29:11 <Diablo-D3> USE FIXED POINT YOU NOOBLETS
2823 2011-04-25 22:29:19 <topi`> there are certain situations where ieee705 implementations might return rounding errors
2824 2011-04-25 22:29:32 <topi`> I guess there's also an exception for detecting that
2825 2011-04-25 22:29:38 <ArtForz> yes, but the use of double here is very limited
2826 2011-04-25 22:29:44 <BlueMatt> topi`: so implement it as an int and add the . in strings
2827 2011-04-25 22:29:45 <Diablo-D3> FIXED. POINT. NOOBLETS.
2828 2011-04-25 22:29:48 <ArtForz> internally it's all int64s
2829 2011-04-25 22:29:49 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-69-208-130-46.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net|Netsniper
2830 2011-04-25 22:29:55 <Diablo-D3> FIXEDPOINT. NOOB. LETS.
2831 2011-04-25 22:29:55 <topi`> so all BTC amounts are integers. fair enough.
2832 2011-04-25 22:30:07 <Diablo-D3> FIXEDPOINTNOOBLETTTTTTTTTTTSSSSSSSSSSS
2833 2011-04-25 22:30:16 <necrodearia> Diablo-D3, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LETS
2834 2011-04-25 22:30:36 <purplezky> Diablo-D3: you made your fixed point, i think he got it
2835 2011-04-25 22:30:39 * Diablo-D3 thwaps necrodearia
2836 2011-04-25 22:30:45 * necrodearia was thwapped by Diablo-D3
2837 2011-04-25 22:30:47 <Diablo-D3> purplezky++
2838 2011-04-25 22:30:52 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: and how do you prevent... rounding errors?
2839 2011-04-25 22:31:15 <Diablo-D3> in fixed point?
2840 2011-04-25 22:31:19 <ArtForz> yes
2841 2011-04-25 22:31:28 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt matter, btc is an integer.
2842 2011-04-25 22:31:38 <lianj> BlueMatt: lol, in strings?
2843 2011-04-25 22:31:47 <purplezky> in fixed point your precision is "fixed" :)
2844 2011-04-25 22:32:00 <necrodearia> as opposed to broken
2845 2011-04-25 22:32:00 <BlueMatt> lianj: yea, never use a floating point anywhere
2846 2011-04-25 22:32:01 <Diablo-D3> its inappropriate to do simple math on integers in formats other than integer
2847 2011-04-25 22:32:03 echelon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2848 2011-04-25 22:32:04 <ArtForz> 100000000 / 3 = 33333333; 33333333 * 3 = 99999999 ... hey, where did that last satoshi go?
2849 2011-04-25 22:32:10 ezl has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2850 2011-04-25 22:32:12 <topi`> for the first time bitcoind is run, it seems to take all the CPU it can to request/process blocks ... I wonder what it really does? verifying the hashes from the blocks should be a quick operation.
2851 2011-04-25 22:32:18 <midnightmagic> the logic and rationale that went into the constants does not appear to be documented; this is partly why I do not consider the project fully open.
2852 2011-04-25 22:32:19 <lianj> BlueMatt: thats kinda crazy
2853 2011-04-25 22:32:27 <ArtForz> getting rounding for financial crap right is *hard*
2854 2011-04-25 22:32:28 <BlueMatt> lianj: it was mostly sarcastic
2855 2011-04-25 22:32:39 <lianj> BlueMatt: oh, thank god! :)
2856 2011-04-25 22:32:50 <BlueMatt> lianj: but if you follow Diablo-D3's suggestion to the word, its the only way to go
2857 2011-04-25 22:32:52 echelon has joined
2858 2011-04-25 22:33:08 <djoot> he said simple math, not division :)
2859 2011-04-25 22:33:39 <Diablo-D3> division requires careful tracking of remainders
2860 2011-04-25 22:33:43 <ArtForz> yep
2861 2011-04-25 22:34:01 <ArtForz> and - surprise, same thing in floating point
2862 2011-04-25 22:34:05 <necrodearia> 100000000 / 3 = 33333333r1; 33333333r1 * 3 = 100000000
2863 2011-04-25 22:34:12 <Diablo-D3> so yeah, as far as the secret jewish order of bitcoin goes, division is not simple math
2864 2011-04-25 22:34:45 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and btw, no, the same thing isnt in floating point in the sense that the hardware and compiler design is conspiring to hide the details
2865 2011-04-25 22:34:48 <midnightmagic> dude you know, this is exactly why your miner isn't the only miner being used.
2866 2011-04-25 22:34:56 <ArtForz> ieee754 guarantees that simple add/sub is always exact as long as you don't overflow the mantissa
2867 2011-04-25 22:35:07 <Diablo-D3> so most programmers simply don't understand how it works.
2868 2011-04-25 22:35:15 <ArtForz> but why someone would use a FPU to add integers... no clue
2869 2011-04-25 22:35:20 <ArtForz> yep
2870 2011-04-25 22:35:23 autotron has joined
2871 2011-04-25 22:35:28 <ArtForz> fucking up with floating point is *way* too easy
2872 2011-04-25 22:35:42 <topi`> I seem to be getting lots of orphan blocks. are those going to get purged from the network at some point? say, 2 weeks old.
2873 2011-04-25 22:35:53 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: also, up yours.
2874 2011-04-25 22:35:55 <ArtForz> which is exactly why you avoid it like the plague
2875 2011-04-25 22:36:04 <necrodearia> ArtForz, In regards to previous discussion about 10mins vs 10sex: "The 10 minutes represents a tension between security and usability. With a larger network, you can increase usability without so much of a concern for decreasing security as in a smaller network." <-- What is your response to this statement from ahbritto?
2876 2011-04-25 22:36:13 <Diablo-D3> necrodearia: secs.
2877 2011-04-25 22:36:16 <necrodearia> saix
2878 2011-04-25 22:36:21 <ArtForz> you can't increase usablility
2879 2011-04-25 22:36:28 <johnlockwood> the more digits in front of the point, the less accuracy you get with the digits after the point
2880 2011-04-25 22:36:30 <ArtForz> 1 confirm at 10 sec/block is nearly worthless
2881 2011-04-25 22:36:42 <Diablo-D3> johnlockwood: yes
2882 2011-04-25 22:36:43 <necrodearia> How about 1 minute though?
2883 2011-04-25 22:36:53 <Diablo-D3> due to how fp is, literally, a floating point
2884 2011-04-25 22:37:12 <ArtForz> same thing, to provide roughly the same resistance to double-spending as 10min and 6 blocks, you need ~60 blocks at 1 min
2885 2011-04-25 22:37:14 <Diablo-D3> part of the number is used to store the binary exponent of where the point is
2886 2011-04-25 22:37:26 <ArtForz> yep, in binary ;)
2887 2011-04-25 22:37:30 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: if you weren't such a jerk about things to the point where people aren't confident you'd throw them under a bus for using "the wrong math" nobody would even bother using anything else. it's a question of trust, dude. take a lesson from deraadt: that guy is more of a jerk than you'll ever be, but users still trust him.
2888 2011-04-25 22:37:38 Beremat has joined
2889 2011-04-25 22:37:40 <Diablo-D3> and teaching how complex binary math works to noobs? nothx.
2890 2011-04-25 22:37:44 <Diablo-D3> do not want
2891 2011-04-25 22:37:57 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: dude, THE LAW ITSELF will happily throw you under a bus
2892 2011-04-25 22:38:06 <BlueMatt> necrodearia: assuming it takes 1 minute for each block to propagate, you would lose ~50% of hash power to forks if you did a block/minute
2893 2011-04-25 22:38:08 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: What, are you judge dredd now?
2894 2011-04-25 22:38:17 <Diablo-D3> there is a reason that the WHOLE BANKING INDUSTRY is scared shitless of FP.
2895 2011-04-25 22:38:23 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: the law would, so you'd also be happy to?
2896 2011-04-25 22:38:37 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: its one of the few times the law is right.
2897 2011-04-25 22:39:14 <midnightmagic> anyway, that was just an example. I don't recall a single instance where you actually gave a shit about anybody, publically.
2898 2011-04-25 22:39:52 <midnightmagic> and then you throw out those dumbass jew comments.. geez, man.
2899 2011-04-25 22:40:23 <topi`> Diablo-D3: the whole banking industry was also very comfortable with using COBOL :)
2900 2011-04-25 22:40:33 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: oh, come on, racist jokes are funny (as long as no one takes them too seriously)
2901 2011-04-25 22:40:37 <Diablo-D3> dude, dont insult the secret jewish order ofbitcoin, midnightmagic
2902 2011-04-25 22:40:54 <midnightmagic> they would be if they were funny.
2903 2011-04-25 22:41:03 <Diablo-D3> topi`: you know, as for 60 year old languages go, cobol isnt that bad.
2904 2011-04-25 22:41:07 autotron has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2905 2011-04-25 22:41:15 <BlueMatt> ok Ill give you that diablo's particular joke kinda sucked
2906 2011-04-25 22:41:16 <johnlockwood> "Floating-points generally do not have an exact binary representation" http://bit.ly/hoReGA
2907 2011-04-25 22:41:47 <topi`> it's kind of a funny attempt at using "natural" language to describe machine operations
2908 2011-04-25 22:41:49 <Diablo-D3> and besides, for all you know, I could be jewish.
2909 2011-04-25 22:42:26 <lianj> or german
2910 2011-04-25 22:42:32 <topi`> so, why is the client processing all those orphan blocks at startup?
2911 2011-04-25 22:42:56 <topi`> I mean, since they're orphans, they don't belong to the main blockchain anyways. why not purge them?
2912 2011-04-25 22:44:00 <BlueMatt> topi`: very old ones probably should be, though new ones obviously shouldnt be
2913 2011-04-25 22:44:02 <jaromil> guys: cool book http://www.hackersdelight.org/
2914 2011-04-25 22:44:07 <BlueMatt> topi`: code it ;)
2915 2011-04-25 22:44:09 <jaromil> i have it. tells lots about binary math
2916 2011-04-25 22:44:18 <jaromil> very nice read
2917 2011-04-25 22:44:24 <BlueMatt> you cant just look it up on wikipedia?
2918 2011-04-25 22:45:34 <necrodearia> What would a Bitcoin clone look like if halving every 210,000 blocks were removed and there were unlimited amount of units that could exist as time continues? e.g. each 10 minute block generation, the same number of units are generated always.
2919 2011-04-25 22:46:12 <BlueMatt> necrodearia: it would present too big a problem for adoption
2920 2011-04-25 22:46:34 <phantomcircuit> necrodearia, why would anybody start using it?
2921 2011-04-25 22:46:52 <necrodearia> BlueMatt, What kind of problem?
2922 2011-04-25 22:46:56 <ArtForz> actually it kinda makes sense
2923 2011-04-25 22:47:07 <ArtForz> notice that infaltion in such a system would still tend to zero
2924 2011-04-25 22:47:22 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: no, I agree, but I think people would be much less willing to adopt it
2925 2011-04-25 22:47:44 <ArtForz> as the X coins/block represent a smaller and smaller fraction of the total issued amount
2926 2011-04-25 22:47:48 <topi`> people adopt gold because it is scarce
2927 2011-04-25 22:48:15 <BlueMatt> one of the largest reasons people feel comfortable with bitcoin is that they know how many there will be...period
2928 2011-04-25 22:48:25 <ArtForz> true
2929 2011-04-25 22:48:31 <djoot> and would at some point equal the average loss of coins
2930 2011-04-25 22:48:59 <necrodearia> BlueMatt, Actually, I think the largest reason people feel comfortable with bitcoin is that they know the rate of generation is fixed and the units created out of thin air is known.
2931 2011-04-25 22:49:03 <BlueMatt> and I would argue that the most important issue for bitcoin is adoption, what makes long-term economic sense if we assume adoption isnt always the best idea
2932 2011-04-25 22:49:26 <necrodearia> Therefore, even if the amount of units were to remain constant and not halve ever, the rate of currency creation would be known and that is all that matters.
2933 2011-04-25 22:49:37 <lianj> BlueMatt: but technically bitcoin could exceed how much there will be, right?
2934 2011-04-25 22:50:01 <midnightmagic> except we also know that a bitcoin id 8-digiti divisible and the current decimal point is a purely psychological barrier
2935 2011-04-25 22:50:02 <BlueMatt> necrodearia: I disagree, one of the reasons some people adopt bitcoin is to get a slice of that 21 million early for when deflation kicks in
2936 2011-04-25 22:50:06 <BlueMatt> (assuming we get adoption)
2937 2011-04-25 22:50:21 <BlueMatt> lianj: what do you mean?
2938 2011-04-25 22:50:45 <BlueMatt> if there is always more...well you arent getting a slice, you are just getting coins
2939 2011-04-25 22:50:50 Greek_o_nikos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2940 2011-04-25 22:51:07 <BlueMatt> and as such a huge percent of the people in our current user-base are people who object to the fed simply because they can and do print money
2941 2011-04-25 22:51:13 <topi`> BlueMatt: and the best strategy for everyone [who got a slice of those 21M coins] is to make sure bitcoin succeeds and is adopted
2942 2011-04-25 22:51:22 <necrodearia> BlueMatt, People still accept us dollar, and there will always be more us dollar created out of thin air
2943 2011-04-25 22:51:35 <necrodearia> BlueMatt, That doesn't stop anyone frm using us dollar
2944 2011-04-25 22:51:36 <BlueMatt> necrodearia: yes, but that is for different reasons
2945 2011-04-25 22:51:42 <topi`> this is one huge ponzi scheme :) with the exception, that with bitcoins you can support xkcd.com
2946 2011-04-25 22:51:46 <midnightmagic> necrodearia: you are right. make such a system and i'll devote mining to your blockchain.
2947 2011-04-25 22:51:48 <BlueMatt> in order to bootstrap a currency you have to play by different rules
2948 2011-04-25 22:52:19 <BlueMatt> topi`: it isnt, but you have to admit you see where people are coming from when they say that
2949 2011-04-25 22:52:19 <topi`> everyone, who tried to create new currencies, knows how difficult it is to bootstrap a new currency..
2950 2011-04-25 22:52:22 <Blitzboom> i still see no decent shops accepting bitcoin
2951 2011-04-25 22:52:25 <midnightmagic> i'll also happily trade it in -otc. and, if I ever get around to participating in it, i'll make sure anything i'm involved in will accept either blockchain.
2952 2011-04-25 22:52:47 <topi`> BlueMatt: I was being sarcastic.
2953 2011-04-25 22:53:08 <lianj> BlueMatt: http://timothyblee.com/2011/04/19/bitcoins-collusion-problem/
2954 2011-04-25 22:53:09 <BlueMatt> topi`: I know I just wanted to point out that it is a legitimate concern, if not expressed well
2955 2011-04-25 22:53:26 <midnightmagic> Blitzboom: it's just not big enough yet. it will as soon as the total valuation of the currency is large enough to make merchants happy about the security of their monies
2956 2011-04-25 22:53:28 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: necrodearia's idea is a better system, the problem is it doesn't pose a good method for bootstrapping
2957 2011-04-25 22:53:42 <topi`> lianj: none of the mechanisms timothy presents there, are plausible. he does NOT understand what open source is all about.
2958 2011-04-25 22:53:45 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: chicken and egg problem
2959 2011-04-25 22:53:46 <Blitzboom> midnightmagic: lol, please
2960 2011-04-25 22:53:53 <ArtForz> collusion problem is wrong
2961 2011-04-25 22:53:54 <necrodearia> #carrot-dev if you're interested in helping to establish it.
2962 2011-04-25 22:53:55 skyewm has joined
2963 2011-04-25 22:53:59 <Blitzboom> bitcoin will NEVER have a stable value without shops accepting it
2964 2011-04-25 22:54:07 <ArtForz> well, it's a strawman
2965 2011-04-25 22:54:12 <Blitzboom> they can wait eternally
2966 2011-04-25 22:54:19 <johnlockwood> so if 500 million people used bitcoins, 1BTC would be a significant sum
2967 2011-04-25 22:54:23 <midnightmagic> Blitzboom: there's just no infrastructure. it will.
2968 2011-04-25 22:54:42 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: look at eur-usd conversion rates, its crazy
2969 2011-04-25 22:54:42 <lianj> topi`: youre going to wait and see? :D
2970 2011-04-25 22:54:49 <BlueMatt> almost as crazy as btc-usd rates
2971 2011-04-25 22:55:11 <BlueMatt> problem is people who use eur can pay their supply chain in eur so dont have to worry, not so much with btc
2972 2011-04-25 22:55:22 <ArtForz> to change basic rules, you'd need a vast majority of *traders*, not nodes
2973 2011-04-25 22:55:29 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2974 2011-04-25 22:55:58 <BlueMatt> one of the ideal ways to get merchants right now is to create a paypal-like site which transparently allows btc for merchants. They dont have to deal with it or even know its there
2975 2011-04-25 22:56:09 <BlueMatt> but we can all pay in btc and merchants get their stable usd prices
2976 2011-04-25 22:56:13 <BlueMatt> or eur or whatever
2977 2011-04-25 22:56:33 <topi`> but btc is not very stable yet.
2978 2011-04-25 22:56:43 <topi`> ;;bc,mtgox
2979 2011-04-25 22:56:44 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":1.701,"low":1.5211,"vol":13555,"buy":1.561,"sell":1.5799,"last":1.5798}}
2980 2011-04-25 22:56:52 <phantomcircuit> lianj, "That means that convincing the creators of the top two or three Bitcoin clients to change their implementations would be enough to effectively change the protocol."
2981 2011-04-25 22:56:55 <BlueMatt> topi`: chicken and egg problem
2982 2011-04-25 22:57:01 <phantomcircuit> lianj, that's wrong on so many levels it's not even funny
2983 2011-04-25 22:57:05 <ArtForz> yeah
2984 2011-04-25 22:57:16 <BlueMatt> topi`: it wont be till we get merchants, hence the need for a good api
2985 2011-04-25 22:57:25 MartianW has joined
2986 2011-04-25 22:57:46 <BlueMatt> the site can convert btc instantly so they dont have to worry about rates either
2987 2011-04-25 22:57:55 <BlueMatt> via mtg api or something similar
2988 2011-04-25 22:58:01 <ArtForz> all that'd cause is crucified maintainers and 300 forks popping up within a few hours
2989 2011-04-25 22:58:03 MartianW has quit (Client Quit)
2990 2011-04-25 22:58:04 <necrodearia> midnightmagic, Feel free to join #carrot / #carrot-dev
2991 2011-04-25 22:58:55 <jaromil> loooool
2992 2011-04-25 22:59:32 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: so someone buys with bitcoins so they can sell them for fiat money?
2993 2011-04-25 22:59:37 <Blitzboom> meh
2994 2011-04-25 22:59:41 <lianj> phantomcircuit: dont convince, boot a botnet
2995 2011-04-25 22:59:45 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: that would help bootstrap very well
2996 2011-04-25 22:59:51 <BlueMatt> even if its not ideal, it would work
2997 2011-04-25 22:59:53 <Blitzboom> yeah, i guess itâs necessary
2998 2011-04-25 22:59:57 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: no, it is right
2999 2011-04-25 23:00:01 <Blitzboom> for the start
3000 2011-04-25 23:00:05 <Blitzboom> just to be able to use bitcoin
3001 2011-04-25 23:00:08 <topi`> bitcoin's value will be in micropayments and all sorts of new ways of trading
3002 2011-04-25 23:00:15 <topi`> there'll be plenty of opportunities
3003 2011-04-25 23:00:30 <gjs278> bitcoin's value will be in mining these things and selling them to people whenever the market decides to go to 1.90
3004 2011-04-25 23:00:31 Iechilov has quit (Quit: mIRC 7.19 in Italiano by Sagitt - www.mircmania.it)
3005 2011-04-25 23:00:33 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, it's only right if the majority of the miners dont notice the change or decide they agree with it
3006 2011-04-25 23:00:34 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: it would probably remain-its what paypal does for most merchants now anyway
3007 2011-04-25 23:00:43 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, and it's not in the miners best interest to do so
3008 2011-04-25 23:00:50 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it can be
3009 2011-04-25 23:00:52 <BlueMatt> though obviously some merchants would convert all usd/eur/btc into btc instead of usd (maybe)
3010 2011-04-25 23:00:59 <topi`> gjs278: a 5870 is still an expensive investment in a volatile market
3011 2011-04-25 23:01:02 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: for example, delaying the halving is in miners' interests
3012 2011-04-25 23:01:29 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, depends
3013 2011-04-25 23:01:48 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, if they changed the rules of the game after people had bought in that might cause a confidence crises
3014 2011-04-25 23:01:53 <phantomcircuit> which would be bad for their reserves
3015 2011-04-25 23:02:09 <phantomcircuit> which in turn would be bad for transaction fees
3016 2011-04-25 23:02:31 <topi`> it's very simple: you don't change the rules mid-game
3017 2011-04-25 23:02:42 taco_the_paco has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3018 2011-04-25 23:02:52 <phantomcircuit> topi`, that's the premise of the blog i was criticizing
3019 2011-04-25 23:02:54 <topi`> otherwise, who would like to play? (except the one who benefits)
3020 2011-04-25 23:03:21 BlueMatt is now known as BlueMattzZz
3021 2011-04-25 23:04:05 autotron has joined
3022 2011-04-25 23:04:14 moop has joined
3023 2011-04-25 23:07:45 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3024 2011-04-25 23:09:09 mewantsbitcoins has joined
3025 2011-04-25 23:09:57 <necrodearia> Re: bitcoin divisibility, that is definitely a problem. If 20,000,000 of the 21,000,000 bitcoins are lost due to seized computers by government terrorists, then 1,000,000 bitcoins may not be divisible enough to allow for enough value to all users and will eventually fail.
3026 2011-04-25 23:10:22 <necrodearia> and of the 1,000,000 remaining, if 800,000 of those are lost, then only 200,000 remaining...
3027 2011-04-25 23:10:28 <necrodearia> or 200,000.00000000
3028 2011-04-25 23:10:39 bk128 has joined
3029 2011-04-25 23:11:07 <necrodearia> So, through violence, the government can easily destroy bitcoin
3030 2011-04-25 23:11:15 <necrodearia> s/the government/governments/
3031 2011-04-25 23:11:23 <phantomcircuit> necrodearia, are you serious? that's one of the first things covered by the FAQ
3032 2011-04-25 23:11:35 <necrodearia> hmm
3033 2011-04-25 23:11:39 <necrodearia> I'm not sure, just an idea
3034 2011-04-25 23:11:44 * necrodearia reads the faq again
3035 2011-04-25 23:11:54 <phantomcircuit> necrodearia, 1 BTC is divisible into iirc 10,000,000 pieces
3036 2011-04-25 23:11:58 <necrodearia> yep
3037 2011-04-25 23:12:02 <BaltarNZ> if a sizable nuclear war takes place bitcoin is screwed for sure, I'm out.
3038 2011-04-25 23:12:36 <necrodearia> so, for example, if mtgox.com is seized and all bitcoins affiliated with mtgox become lost...
3039 2011-04-25 23:12:42 <phantomcircuit> oh snap about to go to swap
3040 2011-04-25 23:12:47 <phantomcircuit> LATENCY INCOMING
3041 2011-04-25 23:12:51 mewantsbitcoins has left ()
3042 2011-04-25 23:13:21 <necrodearia> and, let's say mtgox had 50% of the total bitcoins in its wallet
3043 2011-04-25 23:13:33 <necrodearia> then 50% of the existing bitcoins would be gone practically forever.
3044 2011-04-25 23:13:37 <phantomcircuit> necrodearia, it wouldn't particularly matter
3045 2011-04-25 23:13:42 <ArtForz> and, let's say pigs could fly
3046 2011-04-25 23:13:48 <necrodearia> Then the value of all remaining bitcoins would increase
3047 2011-04-25 23:13:58 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3048 2011-04-25 23:14:06 <necrodearia> But, let's say there's only 1 bitcoin left, and all 20,999,999 others have been lost.
3049 2011-04-25 23:14:15 <necrodearia> then there's only 100,000,000 of value
3050 2011-04-25 23:14:17 <BaltarNZ> yes lets say that.
3051 2011-04-25 23:14:31 <ArtForz> let's say theres only 1 sathoshi left, then it's value will be equal tot the total economy!!1one
3052 2011-04-25 23:14:36 <lianj> necrodearia: then the software is changed to generate 50 btc per block mining again prolly
3053 2011-04-25 23:15:09 <necrodearia> hmm
3054 2011-04-25 23:15:17 <necrodearia> just hypothesizing
3055 2011-04-25 23:15:28 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
3056 2011-04-25 23:15:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120192 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 767 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 14 hours, 34 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 105014.95818866
3057 2011-04-25 23:16:32 <ArtForz> 21e14 base units looks like plenty
3058 2011-04-25 23:16:32 <phantomcircuit> necrodearia, 50 BTC == 5,000,000,000
3059 2011-04-25 23:17:20 <ArtForz> btw, weird coincidence
3060 2011-04-25 23:18:27 <luke-jr> ArtForz: until it becomes popular and idiots lose half of it
3061 2011-04-25 23:18:34 <phantomcircuit> and there's iirc 2 trillion USD nominally in circulation
3062 2011-04-25 23:18:39 <phantomcircuit> so
3063 2011-04-25 23:18:46 <necrodearia> ah, so instead of only 8 decimal places, the code could be changed so that 1.00000000 bitcoins can appear as 1000000.00000000 bitcoins?
3064 2011-04-25 23:18:52 <luke-jr> -.-
3065 2011-04-25 23:19:02 <phantomcircuit> necrodearia, sure
3066 2011-04-25 23:19:32 <bk128> ;;bc,stats
3067 2011-04-25 23:19:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120192 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 767 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 14 hours, 34 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 105014.95818866
3068 2011-04-25 23:19:48 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: 100 million is far less than 2 trillion
3069 2011-04-25 23:20:02 xlogik_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3070 2011-04-25 23:20:08 <ArtForz> luke-jr: and examples are far less than examples
3071 2011-04-25 23:20:16 <phantomcircuit> necrodearia, 20k BTC would be sub dividable into 100% of the current monetary base of the USD
3072 2011-04-25 23:20:37 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, sure but ask yourself, what is the limit to subdivision? it's the transaction format
3073 2011-04-25 23:20:48 <phantomcircuit> which can be changed with a version number pump
3074 2011-04-25 23:20:49 <phantomcircuit> so
3075 2011-04-25 23:20:55 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: uh, no
3076 2011-04-25 23:21:07 <luke-jr> changing the divisibility is no easier than changing the total
3077 2011-04-25 23:21:13 <phantomcircuit> uh
3078 2011-04-25 23:21:25 <phantomcircuit> technically the same
3079 2011-04-25 23:21:30 <phantomcircuit> politically easier
3080 2011-04-25 23:21:34 <luke-jr> ok
3081 2011-04-25 23:21:36 <necrodearia> kk, I just wanted to make sure, that for example if 20,999,999.99999999 bitcoins were lost and only 0.00000001 bitcoin remained, that that 0.00000001 bitcoin could still be divisible to entire bitcoin community, and it appears it can be adjusting the code in the software.
3082 2011-04-25 23:21:52 <phantomcircuit> either way the entire point is ridiculous
3083 2011-04-25 23:21:53 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ideally, IMO, the format should be changed to a varint fraction
3084 2011-04-25 23:22:23 <gjs278> one of my f40's in raid 0 died. had to backup to 6 days ago
3085 2011-04-25 23:22:26 <djoot> technically not the same, since if you increase total without increasing everybodys balance you get a transfer of wealth from old coins to new coins
3086 2011-04-25 23:22:44 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, 0.999047619 is the BTC woudl have to be destroyed for this to even start to be an issue
3087 2011-04-25 23:22:47 <luke-jr> djoot: that's political, not technical
3088 2011-04-25 23:22:52 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I disagree.
3089 2011-04-25 23:22:58 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, and that's assuming that BTC is as well used as the dollar :|
3090 2011-04-25 23:23:05 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: Bitcoin barely has enough total right now
3091 2011-04-25 23:23:11 <luke-jr> I'm assumign better-used
3092 2011-04-25 23:23:21 <luke-jr> USD is national
3093 2011-04-25 23:23:24 <luke-jr> Bitcoin is global
3094 2011-04-25 23:23:32 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, you realize there is only 2 trillion usd in circulation right?
3095 2011-04-25 23:23:43 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: yes
3096 2011-04-25 23:23:44 <phantomcircuit> the rest of it is money on deposit with institutions
3097 2011-04-25 23:23:52 <luke-jr> still counts
3098 2011-04-25 23:24:10 <phantomcircuit> sure but it isn't analogous to btc
3099 2011-04-25 23:24:23 <gjs278> how are there not enough bitcoins right now
3100 2011-04-25 23:24:44 <phantomcircuit> iirc there is about 20 trillion USD worth of hard currency in existence
3101 2011-04-25 23:24:52 <phantomcircuit> so like 200k BTC would be enough
3102 2011-04-25 23:25:04 <midnightmagic> 61.96 trillion. gdp is $74 trillion.
3103 2011-04-25 23:25:10 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: no
3104 2011-04-25 23:25:28 <topi`> phantomcircuit: there are other currencies in the world than USD
3105 2011-04-25 23:25:39 <phantomcircuit> topi`, key word, worth
3106 2011-04-25 23:25:48 <topi`> osorry
3107 2011-04-25 23:25:51 <luke-jr> on a global scale, Bitcoin only barely has enough
3108 2011-04-25 23:25:51 <topi`> i'd better get to bed
3109 2011-04-25 23:25:59 <ArtForz> luke-jr: why?
3110 2011-04-25 23:26:24 <MBS> i cant see people paying $100 for a bitcoin, lol, as a psychological thing
3111 2011-04-25 23:26:38 <luke-jr> ArtForz: because there's a lot of people on Earth, and they want more than 1 coin each
3112 2011-04-25 23:26:39 <ArtForz> actually that'd still be not very much
3113 2011-04-25 23:26:41 <midnightmagic> i can. as soon as it's adopted in enough places, it'll hit that easy.
3114 2011-04-25 23:26:41 <MBS> also most of the stuff people sell for bitcoins is still way overpriced
3115 2011-04-25 23:26:46 <gjs278> you'd just lie to them
3116 2011-04-25 23:26:50 <gjs278> and tell them .001 is a coin
3117 2011-04-25 23:26:52 <ArtForz> luke-jr: well, let's hope they never want gold
3118 2011-04-25 23:26:54 <gjs278> people pay $1500 for gold bars
3119 2011-04-25 23:27:15 <luke-jr> gjs278: I'm assuming coin = .00000001
3120 2011-04-25 23:27:16 <ArtForz> there's only about 150000000000000 *milligrams* available
3121 2011-04-25 23:27:18 <BaltarNZ> gjs278 little gold coins that is for $1500/usd
3122 2011-04-25 23:27:21 <midnightmagic> or we just have to wait long enough, and the inflationary currencies will just devalue to the point where ฿ is $100 anyway. :)
3123 2011-04-25 23:27:28 <gjs278> tell them a bitcoin is really a bar
3124 2011-04-25 23:27:31 <MBS> well people probably wouldnt buy gold at this price if it could dissapear into their computer
3125 2011-04-25 23:27:54 <MBS> bitcoins in # of gold
3126 2011-04-25 23:27:55 <gjs278> well, there would definitely be services that backup/hold the wallets for them
3127 2011-04-25 23:28:01 <ArtForz> MBS: keep it away from neutron sources
3128 2011-04-25 23:28:07 <gjs278> it's not like you buy a gold bar now and it shows up in the mail next week
3129 2011-04-25 23:28:07 <MBS> lol
3130 2011-04-25 23:28:36 <BurtyB> gjs278 it can be :)
3131 2011-04-25 23:28:57 <ArtForz> otherwise you'll get lots of funny mercury isotopes
3132 2011-04-25 23:29:16 <MBS> if i had a nuclear reactor, even though it would be a loss, would be awesome to make some gold-198 and plate it with gold-197
3133 2011-04-25 23:30:24 <ArtForz> why?
3134 2011-04-25 23:30:40 <MBS> for the lolz
3135 2011-04-25 23:30:46 <ArtForz> 196au would be more fun
3136 2011-04-25 23:31:01 <djoot> is it blue?
3137 2011-04-25 23:31:04 <ArtForz> decays mostly into 196pt ;)
3138 2011-04-25 23:31:11 <ArtForz> which is stable
3139 2011-04-25 23:32:09 <MBS> well thats no fun
3140 2011-04-25 23:32:17 <MBS> oh wait, i forgot to say plate it and SELL it
3141 2011-04-25 23:32:22 <MBS> anonymously
3142 2011-04-25 23:32:36 autotron has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4)
3143 2011-04-25 23:32:47 <ArtForz> but see, 196au would be deflationary
3144 2011-04-25 23:32:56 autotron has joined
3145 2011-04-25 23:33:10 <ArtForz> unless a huge narual source of platinum is found
3146 2011-04-25 23:33:14 <ArtForz> *natural
3147 2011-04-25 23:34:06 KuT-Sickness is now known as S-Work
3148 2011-04-25 23:34:49 S-Work is now known as KuT-Sickness
3149 2011-04-25 23:35:07 KuT-Sickness is now known as S-Work
3150 2011-04-25 23:35:51 S-Work is now known as KuT-Sickness
3151 2011-04-25 23:36:52 <topi`> http://techliberation.com/2011/04/25/revisiting-the-bitcoin-bubble/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+techliberation+(Technology+Liberation+Front)&utm_content=Google+Reader
3152 2011-04-25 23:37:11 <topi`> grr. sorry for the shitty url.
3153 2011-04-25 23:39:52 <Androgynous> couldn't you just cut off the /?utm_source...
3154 2011-04-25 23:40:25 <topi`> I should, but too late. :)
3155 2011-04-25 23:44:25 <phantomcircuit> http://tinyurl.com/revisiting-the-bitcoin-bubble
3156 2011-04-25 23:44:26 <phantomcircuit> or that
3157 2011-04-25 23:46:16 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3158 2011-04-25 23:49:48 Netsniper has joined
3159 2011-04-25 23:51:34 Einzig_ has joined
3160 2011-04-25 23:53:26 xlogik_ has joined
3161 2011-04-25 23:56:42 Einzig_ has left ()
3162 2011-04-25 23:57:57 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)