1 2011-04-30 00:00:01 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: blocks get updated, etc
2 2011-04-30 00:00:01 <luke-jr> B0g4r7: when someone finds a block
3 2011-04-30 00:00:11 <Diablo-D3> kika: yes
4 2011-04-30 00:00:12 <B0g4r7> Well, yes, if a new block is added.
5 2011-04-30 00:00:19 <B0g4r7> But that's only about once every 10 miutes.
6 2011-04-30 00:00:23 <luke-jr> B0g4r7: everyone is competing for the next block. once someone finds it, nobody else can
7 2011-04-30 00:00:33 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: remember, if you're not on a pool, it only fetches every few minutes
8 2011-04-30 00:00:49 <B0g4r7> Why would you not call getwork in advance of when you will actually need the data?
9 2011-04-30 00:01:01 <Diablo-D3> because the call blocks
10 2011-04-30 00:01:17 <Diablo-D3> and you're just making the code more complex than it needs to be
11 2011-04-30 00:01:23 <Diablo-D3> and you also DONT know when you'll need it
12 2011-04-30 00:01:27 <B0g4r7> Well use another thread then...
13 2011-04-30 00:01:28 <Diablo-D3> how do you predict when you'll find a block?
14 2011-04-30 00:01:45 <Diablo-D3> how do you predict when a block is added to the chain?
15 2011-04-30 00:01:46 <gjs278> w/ my dick
16 2011-04-30 00:01:49 <B0g4r7> I would think you would lose more time to network latency by not caching than you would to working on the occasional stale data.
17 2011-04-30 00:02:02 <B0g4r7> You don't, you would rely on that "long polling" thing.
18 2011-04-30 00:02:03 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: well, you take my miner, and Im running multiple queues anyhow
19 2011-04-30 00:02:04 <B0g4r7> Notification.
20 2011-04-30 00:02:12 <Diablo-D3> network blocking cant effect mining
21 2011-04-30 00:02:24 <Diablo-D3> so one of three (per gpu) threads blocking does nothing.
22 2011-04-30 00:02:56 <kika> Diablo-D3: so basically each threads getwork from the pool
23 2011-04-30 00:03:02 <B0g4r7> So each thread takes a turn iterating while the others are fetching data?
24 2011-04-30 00:03:10 <Diablo-D3> kika: yes
25 2011-04-30 00:03:10 <kika> Diablo-D3: then each thread starts guessing hashes for that work, right?
26 2011-04-30 00:03:16 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: they run independently
27 2011-04-30 00:03:22 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: its like running 3 poclbms.
28 2011-04-30 00:03:30 <Diablo-D3> or any other simple miner
29 2011-04-30 00:03:36 <kika> Diablo-D3: if someone else on the network solves the work first, the thread gets notified about it by long polling?
30 2011-04-30 00:03:36 <Diablo-D3> kika: yes
31 2011-04-30 00:03:38 <B0g4r7> OK, well that's kind of what I meant.
32 2011-04-30 00:03:41 <Diablo-D3> kika: dude, you can read the code
33 2011-04-30 00:03:55 <Diablo-D3> kika: I dont use long polling in mine.
34 2011-04-30 00:04:20 <kika> Diablo-D3: i see, so you just wait until any of those 3 conditions is meet
35 2011-04-30 00:04:29 <Diablo-D3> kika: yes.
36 2011-04-30 00:04:47 <kika> Diablo-D3: i saw the code, however i had problems understanding what you mean for "attemt"
37 2011-04-30 00:04:51 <kika> whats an "attempt" ?
38 2011-04-30 00:05:10 <kika> when the miner found a hash lower than the current pool target its considered an attemt ?
39 2011-04-30 00:05:18 <Diablo-D3> in my code, it means H==0.
40 2011-04-30 00:05:19 <kika> *when the thread
41 2011-04-30 00:05:37 <kika> ok, ill open up your code now
42 2011-04-30 00:05:37 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt mean its worthy (yet) to tell bitcoin
43 2011-04-30 00:05:49 jargon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
44 2011-04-30 00:05:56 <kika> wondering what H== means on your code
45 2011-04-30 00:06:00 <kika> H==0
46 2011-04-30 00:06:05 <Diablo-D3> it means exactly what it means
47 2011-04-30 00:06:15 <Diablo-D3> its standard sha256 nomenclature.
48 2011-04-30 00:06:55 <kika> i dont know about sha256 i just know how to use it weird
49 2011-04-30 00:07:23 <Diablo-D3> the output is 256 long, or 8 ints
50 2011-04-30 00:07:27 <Diablo-D3> each one typically is given a letter
51 2011-04-30 00:07:28 <kika> also i need to research the merkle tree thing, because i think the top hash of the tree every client needs to fetch it from a trusted source
52 2011-04-30 00:07:29 skyewm has joined
53 2011-04-30 00:07:41 <Diablo-D3> kika: nope.
54 2011-04-30 00:07:46 <Diablo-D3> its generated by the client.
55 2011-04-30 00:07:59 <kika> and how a node makes sure its not getting a malicious top hash for the merklee tree
56 2011-04-30 00:08:11 <Diablo-D3> because thats nonsensical?
57 2011-04-30 00:08:13 <kika> Diablo-D3: i see, ok
58 2011-04-30 00:08:16 theorb has joined
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60 2011-04-30 00:08:41 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
61 2011-04-30 00:08:45 <Diablo-D3> the client gets nothing from other clients other than new blocks that can be cryptographically checked
62 2011-04-30 00:09:03 <kika> Diablo-D3: i see
63 2011-04-30 00:09:19 <kika> Diablo-D3: so a client only getblocks from other clients
64 2011-04-30 00:09:25 FrankyJoe has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
65 2011-04-30 00:09:29 <B0g4r7> How does a client advetrise a new transaction that it wants added to the chain?
66 2011-04-30 00:09:35 <kika> Diablo-D3: inv ?
67 2011-04-30 00:09:40 <kika> B0g4r7: inv?
68 2011-04-30 00:09:56 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: broadcasts it
69 2011-04-30 00:10:06 <kika> B0g4r7: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
70 2011-04-30 00:10:20 <B0g4r7> thanks
71 2011-04-30 00:10:24 <kika> yw
72 2011-04-30 00:10:35 <kika> im not bitcoin expert yet btw
73 2011-04-30 00:10:37 <kika> just learning it
74 2011-04-30 00:10:44 <kika> i understand a 70% of bitcoin i think
75 2011-04-30 00:10:54 <kika> just trying to understand the other 30% lol
76 2011-04-30 00:12:44 <kika> Diablo-D3: just looking at your code
77 2011-04-30 00:13:45 <kika> Diablo-D3: so DeviceState represents a GPU?
78 2011-04-30 00:14:45 <Diablo-D3> yes
79 2011-04-30 00:16:11 Slix` has joined
80 2011-04-30 00:16:12 <kika> Diablo-D3: ill become expert on diablominer in the next 2 hours
81 2011-04-30 00:16:13 <kika> i hope
82 2011-04-30 00:16:28 <luke-jr> kika: don't believe a word Diablo-D3 says btw
83 2011-04-30 00:16:30 <kika> that way i can contribute to the project
84 2011-04-30 00:16:39 <kika> luke-jr: why
85 2011-04-30 00:16:46 <luke-jr> kika: he's full of bs
86 2011-04-30 00:16:57 <Diablo-D3> kika: luke-jr is just jealous people use my software and he cant write any
87 2011-04-30 00:16:57 <kika> luke-jr: bs? bitcoins?
88 2011-04-30 00:17:05 <luke-jr> kika: brown sugar
89 2011-04-30 00:17:15 <luke-jr> kika: see, like that bs.
90 2011-04-30 00:17:28 <luke-jr> kika: lots of people use my software
91 2011-04-30 00:17:40 <kika> luke-jr: whats your software?
92 2011-04-30 00:17:55 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: what software have you written that people actually use on a daily basis?
93 2011-04-30 00:18:09 <luke-jr> kika: probably the most well-known related to Bitcoin is Spesmilo (originally by genjix)
94 2011-04-30 00:18:28 <luke-jr> kika: or #bitcoin-watch (code originally by tcatm and nanotube)
95 2011-04-30 00:18:43 <Diablo-D3> so basically you stole other people's code and are now trying to take credit
96 2011-04-30 00:19:15 <luke-jr> if I was trying to take credit, I wouldn't credit the original authors
97 2011-04-30 00:19:34 djoot has quit (Changing host)
98 2011-04-30 00:19:34 djoot has joined
99 2011-04-30 00:19:34 <luke-jr> I try to avoid reinventing the wheel
100 2011-04-30 00:19:38 <Diablo-D3> but this means you've never written anything of value?
101 2011-04-30 00:19:46 <Diablo-D3> s/?//
102 2011-04-30 00:20:03 <luke-jr> kika: I also just started a new pool, using entirely new concepts and currently non-public code I wrote
103 2011-04-30 00:20:25 <kika> luke-jr: i see
104 2011-04-30 00:20:31 <B0g4r7> ;;bc,mtgox
105 2011-04-30 00:20:31 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":2.95,"low":2.21,"vol":57436,"buy":2.879,"sell":2.89,"last":2.89}}
106 2011-04-30 00:21:07 DukeOfURL has joined
107 2011-04-30 00:21:30 <lianj> gribble needs some printf love
108 2011-04-30 00:21:42 <kika> Diablo-D3: opencl platform would be the device? like wich graphic card using i think
109 2011-04-30 00:21:54 <kika> CLPlatform
110 2011-04-30 00:21:56 <Diablo-D3> kika: no, its the implementation
111 2011-04-30 00:23:03 FrankyJoe has joined
112 2011-04-30 00:23:08 <kika> so each graphic card has its own implementation
113 2011-04-30 00:23:15 <Diablo-D3> each company
114 2011-04-30 00:24:02 <luke-jr> kika: poclbm is best IMO
115 2011-04-30 00:24:22 <kika> got it
116 2011-04-30 00:24:23 <kika> Platform: The host plus a collection of devices managed by the OpenCL framework that allow an application to share resources and execute kernels on devices in the platform.
117 2011-04-30 00:24:56 <Diablo-D3> kika: which is a meaningless statement
118 2011-04-30 00:25:18 <Diablo-D3> the platform, for all intents is purposes, is just something to get a list of devices from
119 2011-04-30 00:26:02 <kika> Diablo-D3: okay, so basically it will give you a list of each graphic card installed on the system
120 2011-04-30 00:26:11 <Diablo-D3> yes
121 2011-04-30 00:26:25 <kika> each platform is a graphic card, and each gpu you get it from the graphic card using platform.getDevices(CL10.CL_DEVICE_TYPE_GPU | CL10.CL_DEVICE_TYPE_ACCELERATOR);
122 2011-04-30 00:26:59 <kika> so basically my ati 6990 would be kindof the platform and platform.getDevices would return 2 elements ( the 2 card gpus )
123 2011-04-30 00:28:05 <kika> diabloright?
124 2011-04-30 00:28:09 <kika> Diablo-D3:
125 2011-04-30 00:28:31 <kika> ati 6990 has 2 gpus
126 2011-04-30 00:28:36 <B0g4r7> Sounds right.
127 2011-04-30 00:28:54 <B0g4r7> run poclbm without specifying a device. It will print a list of available devices to execute on.
128 2011-04-30 00:29:02 <B0g4r7> Including the CPU.
129 2011-04-30 00:29:08 <B0g4r7> I think that is the same list.
130 2011-04-30 00:29:30 <kika> B0g4r7: exactly that would be the platform
131 2011-04-30 00:30:04 <kika> platform 1 would be CPU
132 2011-04-30 00:30:11 <kika> platform 2 would be ati 6990
133 2011-04-30 00:30:15 <kika> etc
134 2011-04-30 00:30:38 <B0g4r7> For me it shows 5 devices.
135 2011-04-30 00:30:47 <B0g4r7> 1 CPU, and 4 GPUs.
136 2011-04-30 00:30:48 <B0g4r7> (I have 2 5970 cards)
137 2011-04-30 00:31:25 pirrr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
138 2011-04-30 00:31:26 <kika> CLPlatfrorm representing an OpenCL installation (e.g. graphics driver).
139 2011-04-30 00:31:27 <kika> :)
140 2011-04-30 00:34:41 brooss has joined
141 2011-04-30 00:37:17 <kika> B0g4r7: do you know what H==0 means on diablominer code?
142 2011-04-30 00:38:04 <B0g4r7> Not really. I've not looked at the code myself.
143 2011-04-30 00:38:40 <molecular> H is the lowest byte of the hash. if it's 0, you have a "difficulty one" solution (or share)
144 2011-04-30 00:38:48 <B0g4r7> It might be a C-style thing that identifies a data object as a certain type.
145 2011-04-30 00:39:18 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
146 2011-04-30 00:39:36 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
147 2011-04-30 00:39:38 <sipa> actually a difficulty-.9999847412109375 solution :)
148 2011-04-30 00:39:46 <molecular> :)
149 2011-04-30 00:40:11 MJD has joined
150 2011-04-30 00:40:32 <B0g4r7> Difficulty is controlled by the value of target, yes?
151 2011-04-30 00:40:35 <molecular> B0g4r7, "==" is the comparison operator
152 2011-04-30 00:40:38 <B0g4r7> Smaller value is higher difficulty.
153 2011-04-30 00:40:57 <molecular> yes
154 2011-04-30 00:41:07 <B0g4r7> That's a neat design.
155 2011-04-30 00:42:18 <kika> molecular: i see
156 2011-04-30 00:42:37 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
157 2011-04-30 00:43:16 <kika> if(H == 0)
158 2011-04-30 00:43:30 <kika> diablominer considers it a valid block
159 2011-04-30 00:43:42 <kika> otherwise its invalid
160 2011-04-30 00:43:50 <kika> i think it just makes sure the sha256 be valid
161 2011-04-30 00:44:02 <molecular> well, if H != 0, it's definitely invalid. if H==0, G needs to be checked
162 2011-04-30 00:44:12 toffoo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
163 2011-04-30 00:44:20 toffoo has joined
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165 2011-04-30 00:44:27 <molecular> it checks if hash < target by checking each byte (H, G,...) from the bottom
166 2011-04-30 00:44:28 <kika> G < target means the value < difficulty
167 2011-04-30 00:44:32 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
168 2011-04-30 00:44:42 <molecular> not quite
169 2011-04-30 00:44:45 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
170 2011-04-30 00:45:17 <molecular> the hash is HGFEDCBA (8 bytes)
171 2011-04-30 00:45:21 <kika> H is the lowest byte and G is the higest bytes i think maybe
172 2011-04-30 00:45:31 <kika> oh i see
173 2011-04-30 00:45:47 <kika> and each byte cointains
174 2011-04-30 00:46:00 <kika> an alphanumeric value ?
175 2011-04-30 00:46:13 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
176 2011-04-30 00:46:32 <molecular> oh, sorry, scratch "byte", it's a 4-byte int
177 2011-04-30 00:46:40 <molecular> H is 32 bits
178 2011-04-30 00:46:51 <molecular> and the hash 8*32 = 256 bits, sorry for the confusion
179 2011-04-30 00:46:53 <kika> so basically H can be like 01a2x412
180 2011-04-30 00:46:56 <molecular> right
181 2011-04-30 00:47:13 <kika> and H + G contatenated can be 01a2x4137as86124
182 2011-04-30 00:47:23 <molecular> and currently, H has to be 00000000 and G has to be lower than 0000b5ac
183 2011-04-30 00:47:29 <kika> and all the HGFEDCBA contatenated make the full hash
184 2011-04-30 00:47:43 <molecular> because target is 000000000000b5ac0000000000000000000000000000
185 2011-04-30 00:47:53 <kika> so current target on bitcoin network is
186 2011-04-30 00:47:54 <edcba> what again ?
187 2011-04-30 00:47:57 <molecular> forgot some zeros at the end
188 2011-04-30 00:48:18 <molecular> 000000000000b5ac000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
189 2011-04-30 00:48:22 <kika> current target at bitcoin network is < 000000000000b5ac0000000000000000000000000000
190 2011-04-30 00:48:27 <kika> right ?
191 2011-04-30 00:48:41 <molecular> some more zeros at the end, I think
192 2011-04-30 00:48:45 <Diablo-D3> yes, its over 9000.
193 2011-04-30 00:49:06 <kika> so basically if the target on the bitcoin network changes, every diablominer client has a hardcoded target
194 2011-04-30 00:49:24 <molecular> no, it receives the target from bitcoin or pool
195 2011-04-30 00:49:26 <kika> so if the target changes so much on the network the diablominer would need to be re-harcoded
196 2011-04-30 00:49:34 <kika> oh i see
197 2011-04-30 00:49:36 <kika> thats true
198 2011-04-30 00:49:46 <molecular> but H==0 is always a given, has been from the start, I think
199 2011-04-30 00:49:53 <kika> cool
200 2011-04-30 00:50:00 <molecular> that's also used in GPU kernel code
201 2011-04-30 00:50:13 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 1419285
202 2011-04-30 00:50:14 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1419285 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 15.4585205572 BTC per day and 0.644105023216 BTC per hour.
203 2011-04-30 00:50:21 <kika> molecular: i see
204 2011-04-30 00:50:38 <kika> Diablo-D3: you lied you told me for diablominer an attempt is when H==0
205 2011-04-30 00:50:47 <kika> Diablo-D3: however im checking the code and thats not true
206 2011-04-30 00:52:19 <semarjt> is there a way to delete a bitcoind account
207 2011-04-30 00:52:28 <semarjt> (through rpc)
208 2011-04-30 00:53:18 <Diablo-D3> 546: if(nonce > 0) {
209 2011-04-30 00:53:35 <Diablo-D3> 564: debug("Attempt " + currentAttempts.incrementAndGet() + " found on " + deviceName);
210 2011-04-30 00:54:13 <Diablo-D3> kika: does too.
211 2011-04-30 00:55:01 <kika> yes
212 2011-04-30 00:55:11 JuanDaugherty has joined
213 2011-04-30 00:55:34 <fabianhjr> kiba, can you brief me on this "blackmarket" centralized thing, that much likely is an FBI honeypot, that has been poping on the forums?(Round 3 testing, etc.)
214 2011-04-30 00:58:51 <kika> Diablo-D3: just trying to understand the logic behind ExecutionState.run
215 2011-04-30 01:00:01 <gjs278> this isn't an fbi honeypot
216 2011-04-30 01:00:05 <gjs278> we're not doing anything illegal
217 2011-04-30 01:00:11 <fabianhjr> sipa: 2x 6990s?
218 2011-04-30 01:00:19 <sipa> fabianhjr: 2x 5970
219 2011-04-30 01:00:30 <fabianhjr> sipa: ok, more like it. :)
220 2011-04-30 01:00:46 <gjs278> I'm getting 1050 with 5970/5870 combo
221 2011-04-30 01:00:47 <fabianhjr> So you are runing linux with 2.1sdk?
222 2011-04-30 01:00:49 <sipa> after correcting for stale blocks and pool fees, btw
223 2011-04-30 01:00:57 <Diablo-D3> kika: its not that difficult
224 2011-04-30 01:01:22 <fabianhjr> Oh man, here we are at 30C and I had to UC to avoid the blocking of the card. D:
225 2011-04-30 01:01:30 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
226 2011-04-30 01:01:36 <kika> Diablo-D3: true just trying to download a ide so i can see how its indented the loops, maybe if you can you explain the logic behind it at a higher level it would be even easier
227 2011-04-30 01:01:38 <Diablo-D3> UC?
228 2011-04-30 01:01:53 <fabianhjr> gjs278: not bitcoin, there was a black market program in the forums enduring testing.
229 2011-04-30 01:01:54 <sipa> gat3way: you still here?
230 2011-04-30 01:02:04 <Diablo-D3> kika: run is specificed by the Runnable interface
231 2011-04-30 01:02:05 <gjs278> link
232 2011-04-30 01:02:08 <fabianhjr> It uses a centralized server architecture though.
233 2011-04-30 01:02:12 <gjs278> I've always wanted to be in a honeypot
234 2011-04-30 01:02:16 <sipa> gat3way: it quits after '[hashkill] Threads queue size: 128 plaintexts/thread'
235 2011-04-30 01:02:22 <fabianhjr> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6500.0 by Nefario
236 2011-04-30 01:02:24 <kika> Diablo-D3: yes i know how java threads work
237 2011-04-30 01:03:06 <fabianhjr> gjs278: try to hack the Gibson and you will be so stick to that honey. :P
238 2011-04-30 01:03:18 <gjs278> going for it
239 2011-04-30 01:03:27 <gjs278> what the hell is gibson
240 2011-04-30 01:03:31 <gjs278> google didnt find it for me
241 2011-04-30 01:03:42 <gjs278> step 1 to hacking is identifying your target
242 2011-04-30 01:04:53 * Diablo-D3 hacks teh gibson
243 2011-04-30 01:05:29 <sipa> gat3way: ok, now it quits after [hashkill] Compiling OpenCL kernel source (amd_bitcoin.cl)[error] (ocl_bitcoin.c:923) clBuildProgram error (-11)
244 2011-04-30 01:05:29 <semarjt> thats funny, i just noticed today for the firstime the gibson.freenet.net server
245 2011-04-30 01:06:46 <Netsniper> its been there a while
246 2011-04-30 01:07:05 <gjs278> what the hell is gibson Im ready to hack it
247 2011-04-30 01:07:10 <gjs278> Ive got my hacking tools all in order
248 2011-04-30 01:08:18 agricocb has joined
249 2011-04-30 01:08:20 <Diablo-D3> yes, teh gibson is named after THAT gibson
250 2011-04-30 01:08:29 <gjs278> link me to gibson im rdy to hacks
251 2011-04-30 01:09:12 <kika> Diablo-D3: as far as i undersand Execution.state run basically getswork using rpc call, then it sends the data that getwork returned to the OpenCL program kernel the OpenCL program then computes the hash for that data, and then the thread checks if the hash returned by OpenCL is valid, right?
252 2011-04-30 01:09:53 <gjs278> attention channel: I've unleashed the hax. unfortunately, it has no target. it will explode in this channel in 120 seconds if I don't redirect it to teh gibson
253 2011-04-30 01:10:15 <Diablo-D3> kika: the entire loop is inside that.
254 2011-04-30 01:10:46 <kika> Diablo-D3: yes, so the logic i told you is okay ?
255 2011-04-30 01:11:08 <Diablo-D3> { check output; getwork; run kernel; } is the whole loop
256 2011-04-30 01:11:09 <gjs278> fabianhjr: 60 seeconds holy shit tell me where the gibsons is otherwise this channel is going tob low
257 2011-04-30 01:11:33 <fabianhjr> gjs278: nsa.gov
258 2011-04-30 01:11:33 <kika> Diablo-D3: the loop basically 1) gets work using rpc call 2) sends the getwork data to opencl for it to calculate the hash 3) it checks if the hash returned is valid and if so it sends rpc call telling the pool it found a valid hash
259 2011-04-30 01:11:40 <gjs278> unleashing
260 2011-04-30 01:11:49 amiller has joined
261 2011-04-30 01:11:53 <kika> yes and the kernel takes as input the getwork data, right?
262 2011-04-30 01:12:13 <fabianhjr> Telnet in and get SYSTEM priviledges, then search for $GIBSON$ which is a private IP address. SSH in and stop the times.
263 2011-04-30 01:12:20 <fabianhjr> s/times/times/
264 2011-04-30 01:12:45 <gjs278> ok
265 2011-04-30 01:12:47 <gjs278> im in
266 2011-04-30 01:12:49 <gjs278> what do you want now
267 2011-04-30 01:13:14 <Diablo-D3> kika: the order I gave was correct.
268 2011-04-30 01:13:35 <fabianhjr> Oh cool, there is this virri, called "Cookie Monster" if I remember correctly, get the source and send it to me.
269 2011-04-30 01:13:36 <gjs278> nsa.gov is down for me right now
270 2011-04-30 01:13:44 <gjs278> completely serious
271 2011-04-30 01:13:47 <gjs278> damn
272 2011-04-30 01:13:47 jargon has joined
273 2011-04-30 01:13:48 <gjs278> it's back up
274 2011-04-30 01:14:10 <fabianhjr> You will recieve you -100 BTC payment after the job is completed.
275 2011-04-30 01:14:14 <kika> Diablo-D3: yes i know your order is correct however whats the opencl input? its the data from the getwork rpc call ?
276 2011-04-30 01:14:22 <Diablo-D3> kika: yes.
277 2011-04-30 01:14:36 <kika> Diablo-D3: and the opencl kernel just computes a hash
278 2011-04-30 01:14:46 <Diablo-D3> well, several thousand hashes, yes
279 2011-04-30 01:15:38 <gjs278> http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/6686/screenshotaj.png fabianhjr am I doing ths right
280 2011-04-30 01:15:50 <kika> Diablo-D3: i see so basically it tries 2^32 hashes the opencl kernel, right?
281 2011-04-30 01:15:53 <Diablo-D3> kika: no
282 2011-04-30 01:16:04 <Diablo-D3> that would take minutes.
283 2011-04-30 01:16:08 <kika> Diablo-D3: how many hashes it tried?
284 2011-04-30 01:16:11 <kika> *tries
285 2011-04-30 01:16:15 <Diablo-D3> it tries workSize tries
286 2011-04-30 01:16:21 kobach has joined
287 2011-04-30 01:16:32 <Diablo-D3> which is changed at runtime to match requested interactivity via -f
288 2011-04-30 01:16:54 <kobach> so even if i know my old bitcoin address and i didnt make a backup im still SOL?
289 2011-04-30 01:17:25 <kika> Diablo-D3: how much it would be by default ? workSize?
290 2011-04-30 01:17:30 <fabianhjr> gjs278: not their website kid.
291 2011-04-30 01:17:32 <fabianhjr> The Gibson!
292 2011-04-30 01:17:40 <gjs278> ffs
293 2011-04-30 01:17:44 theymos has joined
294 2011-04-30 01:17:45 <gjs278> I put the hack at the wrong target
295 2011-04-30 01:18:01 <gjs278> I targetted nsa.gov but I guess I wasn't able to crack the ip address and the firewall redirected me to the website
296 2011-04-30 01:18:43 <fabianhjr> Just attack the webserver and gain SYSTEM priviledges. Then search for the $GIBSON$ variable, it is the current IP address, private, of the Gibson. SSH into it and stop the timer. All steps involve dodging security measures.
297 2011-04-30 01:18:45 <Diablo-D3> kika: there isnt a default
298 2011-04-30 01:19:02 kobach has quit (Client Quit)
299 2011-04-30 01:19:03 <Diablo-D3> kika: it continually tunes it to match your GPU(s) and what your machine is doing
300 2011-04-30 01:20:45 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
301 2011-04-30 01:20:57 <kika> Diablo-D3: i see so basically on each iteration of the run loop it getwork, and then it sends that work for opengl to compute hash, and opencl tries many hashes, and return all of those
302 2011-04-30 01:21:51 <kika> opencl basically returns a buffer full of hashes , right ?
303 2011-04-30 01:22:18 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
304 2011-04-30 01:23:40 <kika> i thought opencl just outputs 256 different hashes
305 2011-04-30 01:23:41 focus_ has joined
306 2011-04-30 01:24:03 <Diablo-D3> kika: no.
307 2011-04-30 01:24:15 <Diablo-D3> it outputs nonces that are attempt worthy
308 2011-04-30 01:24:22 <Diablo-D3> it tries quite a shitload of them
309 2011-04-30 01:25:42 <kika> so opencl tries lots of hashes and returns all of them
310 2011-04-30 01:25:44 <kika> right?
311 2011-04-30 01:26:12 <Diablo-D3> no.
312 2011-04-30 01:26:25 <fabianhjr> kiba you can ignore them and save the bandwidth. The OpenCL device can automatically compare it with the target.
313 2011-04-30 01:26:41 <Diablo-D3> it compares H==0 only for speed reasons.
314 2011-04-30 01:27:39 <kika> so opencl just returns one hash, right?
315 2011-04-30 01:28:04 <kika> Diablo-D3: forget this last line i said
316 2011-04-30 01:28:05 <B0g4r7> One is all you need.
317 2011-04-30 01:28:26 <kika> Diablo-D3: so basically opencl kernel returns just nonces, right ?
318 2011-04-30 01:28:50 <Diablo-D3> nonces that are attempt worthy, yes
319 2011-04-30 01:28:51 <B0g4r7> It will only need to return one.
320 2011-04-30 01:28:58 <kika> and then sha256 calculation is done on java
321 2011-04-30 01:28:58 <B0g4r7> Most of the timt it would return none.
322 2011-04-30 01:29:02 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: no, possible overlap
323 2011-04-30 01:29:09 <Diablo-D3> I chose 256, but its overkill
324 2011-04-30 01:29:12 <B0g4r7> oh...for attempt.
325 2011-04-30 01:29:22 <B0g4r7> Yeah, you could need to return more than one.
326 2011-04-30 01:29:24 <Diablo-D3> one in 2^32 attempt
327 2011-04-30 01:29:40 focus_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
328 2011-04-30 01:29:40 <Diablo-D3> virtually all the time you'll never see a valid attempt
329 2011-04-30 01:29:47 <Diablo-D3> and virtually all the time you wont see more than 1
330 2011-04-30 01:29:56 <Diablo-D3> but it does happen now and then
331 2011-04-30 01:31:08 <phantomcircuit> Swap: 3894524k total, 251336k used, 3643188k free, 75960k cached
332 2011-04-30 01:31:12 <phantomcircuit> sigh
333 2011-04-30 01:32:36 <kika> Diablo-D3: so the opencl kernel returns attempt worthy nonces, then in java it calculates the hash using that nonce, and checks to see if that hash matches valid target, and if so, it considers a block found, right?
334 2011-04-30 01:33:12 <kika> java gets all nonces and tries to hash using each one of those nonces, and if the hash is valid, it notifies that it found a valid block, right ?
335 2011-04-30 01:33:32 <Diablo-D3> kika: no, THEN it sends it back to the client
336 2011-04-30 01:33:42 <Diablo-D3> and if the client says its valid, THEN it considers the block found
337 2011-04-30 01:34:03 <kika> Diablo-D3: yes i understand that, okay, so the client in my case would be a pool
338 2011-04-30 01:34:18 <Diablo-D3> pool still has to comply with the spec
339 2011-04-30 01:34:32 <kika> Diablo-D3: yup
340 2011-04-30 01:34:33 <cosurgi> anyone got connection problems with slush, or it's just me?
341 2011-04-30 01:35:10 <luke-jr> cosurgi: switch to my pool :D
342 2011-04-30 01:35:12 <kika> Diablo-D3: so basically how many nonces the opencl returns or how many time the opencl program runs trying to found attempt worthy nonces, thats what i have to research
343 2011-04-30 01:35:20 <kika> *find
344 2011-04-30 01:35:46 <Diablo-D3> the opencl can return up to 256
345 2011-04-30 01:35:50 <Diablo-D3> its usually 0.
346 2011-04-30 01:35:53 Lachesis has joined
347 2011-04-30 01:36:09 <kika> Diablo-D3: and how much time opencl keeps trying to find nonces?
348 2011-04-30 01:36:18 <Diablo-D3> whatever the user requests.
349 2011-04-30 01:36:31 <Diablo-D3> default is -f 60, which is 1/60th of a second
350 2011-04-30 01:36:36 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
351 2011-04-30 01:36:46 <kika> Diablo-D3: i see cool!
352 2011-04-30 01:37:03 Netsniper has joined
353 2011-04-30 01:37:14 <kika> Diablo-D3: so basically each 1/50th of a second or so each threads performs an update to getwork
354 2011-04-30 01:37:21 <kika> from the pool
355 2011-04-30 01:37:27 <Diablo-D3> nope.
356 2011-04-30 01:37:45 tabsa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
357 2011-04-30 01:38:05 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
358 2011-04-30 01:38:26 <Diablo-D3> it performs getwork when either it runs out of search space, it finds a sendwork, or 5 minutes have passed.
359 2011-04-30 01:38:27 tabsa has joined
360 2011-04-30 01:39:54 FrankyJoe has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
361 2011-04-30 01:40:33 <Diablo-D3> er, it performs a sendwork
362 2011-04-30 01:40:53 has joined
363 2011-04-30 01:41:02 <kika> opencl returns many nonces in around 1/60th of a second, then java tries to see if any of those nonces creates a valid hash, if none of those creates a valid hash..i tought it just getwork again and tries to get new nonces for the newgetwork
364 2011-04-30 01:41:23 <Diablo-D3> kika: nope, it still has search space to check
365 2011-04-30 01:41:31 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
366 2011-04-30 01:41:32 <Diablo-D3> and getwork doesnt provide the nonces
367 2011-04-30 01:41:58 <kika> what do you mean by search space ? you mean it has space to keep trying to find more nonces and valid hashes?
368 2011-04-30 01:42:11 <kika> for the current getdata
369 2011-04-30 01:42:39 <Diablo-D3> 2^32 nonces == a search space
370 2011-04-30 01:42:54 <phantomcircuit> WordPress includes a default theme in each new installation. Examine the files in the default theme carefully to get a better idea of how to build your own Theme files.
371 2011-04-30 01:42:56 <phantomcircuit> sigh
372 2011-04-30 01:44:31 <kika> Diablo-D3: what if the getwork gets invalid in between? ( because someone else solved it), then the work the thread is trying to do is useless, right
373 2011-04-30 01:44:55 <luke-jr> kika: that's what longpolling is for
374 2011-04-30 01:45:04 <kika> and the thread might have to wait until it runs out of search space to try to getwork again
375 2011-04-30 01:45:13 <kika> right?
376 2011-04-30 01:45:15 <Diablo-D3> kika: yes.
377 2011-04-30 01:45:41 <kika> luke-jr: i know im just wondering why diablominer doesnt implement LP if it would benefit it a whole ?
378 2011-04-30 01:45:54 <luke-jr> kika: because Diablo-D3 is retarded
379 2011-04-30 01:45:57 <Diablo-D3> because I dont see a point in supporting an old protocol
380 2011-04-30 01:46:29 <kika> Diablo-D3: and right now how do you get notified of blocks that have been already solved on the network?
381 2011-04-30 01:46:50 <kika> Diablo-D3: or you just leep working on them until you run out of search space for nonces
382 2011-04-30 01:46:55 <kika> *keep
383 2011-04-30 01:47:06 <Diablo-D3> kika: its not notified.
384 2011-04-30 01:47:28 aaerox has joined
385 2011-04-30 01:48:43 tenach has joined
386 2011-04-30 01:48:48 tenach has quit (Changing host)
387 2011-04-30 01:48:48 tenach has joined
388 2011-04-30 01:49:29 <kika> Diablo-D3: so during 1/60 of a second it tries to get valid nonces, and you say most of the time it gets none, so basically it will be running for a lot without perform a new getowrk ( it probably wont find 2^32 nonces in a while)
389 2011-04-30 01:50:09 <kika> so i think that if a thread gotwork that it became stale after 2 min, the thread might keep working on the stale data for around a lot ?
390 2011-04-30 01:52:10 <kika> say thread 1 getwork and gets work 1, then work 1 after 1 min becomes solved on the network, thread 1 as long as i understand never gets notified that work 1 already was solved, and thread 1 will keep trying for a lot of time to get a hash that will be stale?
391 2011-04-30 01:53:23 <kika> luke-jr? Diablo-D3 ?
392 2011-04-30 01:54:42 <kika> i got confused weird
393 2011-04-30 01:56:42 <kika> Diablo-D3: can you help me to get this please?
394 2011-04-30 01:57:23 <kika> Diablo-D3: i just need to understand on average how much time the ExecutionState.run call would call getwork
395 2011-04-30 02:00:24 wolfspraul has joined
396 2011-04-30 02:01:33 <kika> Diablo-D3: that way i can optimize the pooler
397 2011-04-30 02:06:07 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
398 2011-04-30 02:07:12 <kika> Diablo-D3: your miner is harder to understand than i tought
399 2011-04-30 02:07:40 fahadsadah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
400 2011-04-30 02:12:55 FrankyJoe has joined
401 2011-04-30 02:14:55 fahadsadah has joined
402 2011-04-30 02:15:33 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
403 2011-04-30 02:16:50 <doublec> Run Diablo-D3's miner alongside a half-node - restart Diablo-D3's when a block is found. problem solved.
404 2011-04-30 02:17:30 <kika> doublec: why ?
405 2011-04-30 02:17:33 eternal1 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
406 2011-04-30 02:17:49 <kika> whats a half node?
407 2011-04-30 02:18:05 <doublec> kika: I'm saying this is what the people complaining that Diablo-D3's miner doesn't support long polling can do
408 2011-04-30 02:18:16 <doublec> kika: a half node listens on the network and gets notified when transactions and blocks occur
409 2011-04-30 02:18:45 <kika> doublec: if i run bitcoind then it would be a half node, right
410 2011-04-30 02:19:02 <doublec> kika: jgarzik's pushpool project has one https://github.com/jgarzik/pushpool/blob/master/blkmond
411 2011-04-30 02:19:15 <kika> doublec: yes i use pushpoold and run blkmond
412 2011-04-30 02:19:34 <kika> doublec: i want to connect to it using diablominer however i tried and diablominer is very slow when connecting to pushpool
413 2011-04-30 02:19:47 <kika> doublec: diabliminer is much faster at deepbit than at my pushpool server
414 2011-04-30 02:20:11 <kika> doublec: at deepbit diablominer is 200Mhash/s and at my pushpool its just 10Mhash/s and i dont know why
415 2011-04-30 02:20:13 RenaKunisaki has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
416 2011-04-30 02:20:39 sprash has joined
417 2011-04-30 02:20:47 <doublec> kika: is your pushpool server on a slow network?
418 2011-04-30 02:20:58 <luke-jr> kika: try my pushpoold
419 2011-04-30 02:21:15 <luke-jr> kika: pool.bitcoin.dashjr.org 8337 user=payoutaddress pass=x
420 2011-04-30 02:21:40 <kika> doublec: well it depends what you consider slow, im using jgarzik pushpoold, its 128Kbps upstream and all the bandwidth is dedicated to bitcoin would that be slow for just 1 diablominer client connecting to it?
421 2011-04-30 02:22:28 <kika> luke-jr: ill try as soon as i be at the place i have the hardware to test it, another day
422 2011-04-30 02:22:36 <kika> luke-jr: that pools runs 24/7
423 2011-04-30 02:22:38 <kika> ?
424 2011-04-30 02:22:46 <luke-jr> kika: yes
425 2011-04-30 02:22:55 <doublec> kika: yes that is slow
426 2011-04-30 02:22:56 <kika> luke-jr: it uses jgarzik pushpoold untouched?
427 2011-04-30 02:23:20 <doublec> kika: but should run one client I'd hope!
428 2011-04-30 02:23:21 <luke-jr> kika: I made a patch to not care about passwords
429 2011-04-30 02:23:35 <kika> doublec: how much bandwidth do i need for a diablominer client connecting to my pushpoold to be okay ?
430 2011-04-30 02:23:35 <luke-jr> shouldn't affect anything else
431 2011-04-30 02:23:49 <doublec> kika: I don't know. You should do some testing and find out.
432 2011-04-30 02:23:51 RenaKunisaki has joined
433 2011-04-30 02:23:54 coldfront has joined
434 2011-04-30 02:24:12 <kika> i want the diablominer clients on my pushpool to hash as fast as they do on deepbit
435 2011-04-30 02:24:30 <tcatm> (C++) How can I split a string (that might contain quoted substrings with spaces) into an array?
436 2011-04-30 02:24:57 <kika> luke-jr: the worker job passwords?
437 2011-04-30 02:25:06 <luke-jr> kika: yes, my pushpoold ignores them
438 2011-04-30 02:25:17 <kika> luke-jr: and why you told me pass=x ?
439 2011-04-30 02:25:26 <luke-jr> tcatm: boost has a splitter thing, dunno about quote handling tho
440 2011-04-30 02:25:42 <luke-jr> tcatm: see my URI patch for an example on use
441 2011-04-30 02:26:18 <kika> luke-jr: you had to touch code to make pushpoold to distribute coins to each miner after the pool finds a block ? i mean you had to create code to make it to distribute the coins according to the shares each miner got?
442 2011-04-30 02:26:30 <luke-jr> kika: yes
443 2011-04-30 02:26:38 <luke-jr> pushpoold is not involved in distribution at all
444 2011-04-30 02:26:45 <kika> luke-jr: so you created that reward code yourself
445 2011-04-30 02:26:48 <luke-jr> yes
446 2011-04-30 02:26:58 <kika> luke-jr: can you provide me that code ?
447 2011-04-30 02:27:10 <luke-jr> kika: not at this time, sorry
448 2011-04-30 02:27:16 <kika> luke-jr: otherwise i would have to create it lol
449 2011-04-30 02:27:25 <luke-jr> kika: my code is quite unique right now ;)
450 2011-04-30 02:27:31 <doublec> luke-jr probably has a custom bitcoind too so that the coins can be distributed in genereate blocks
451 2011-04-30 02:27:35 <luke-jr> doublec: yep
452 2011-04-30 02:27:47 <luke-jr> doublec: the patch isn't exactly mergable either
453 2011-04-30 02:27:50 <kika> i was thinking...
454 2011-04-30 02:27:53 <luke-jr> doublec: it breaks with USE_SSL
455 2011-04-30 02:28:07 <kika> why pushpool exists if one could easly re-code bitcoind a bit to distribute coins and ignore sendcoins etc rpc requests?
456 2011-04-30 02:28:31 <kika> wouldnt it be more effective to just touch bitcoind code to handle the pooling tasks?
457 2011-04-30 02:28:32 <luke-jr> kika: pushpool exists to handle multiple users/authentication and log shares in a db
458 2011-04-30 02:28:43 <doublec> kika, bitcoind's RPC is not exactly built for high performance networking
459 2011-04-30 02:28:52 <luke-jr> kika: it wouldn't fit with the "do one thing well" concept ;)
460 2011-04-30 02:28:57 <luke-jr> that too
461 2011-04-30 02:29:01 docl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
462 2011-04-30 02:29:06 <luke-jr> bitcoind can only handle one RPC request at a time
463 2011-04-30 02:29:13 <kika> i see
464 2011-04-30 02:29:19 <kika> so it uses blocking sockets?
465 2011-04-30 02:29:24 <luke-jr> even with my multi-threaded RPC patch, everything but getwork and findnewaddress lock it up]
466 2011-04-30 02:29:33 <luke-jr> kika: yes
467 2011-04-30 02:29:42 <kika> and pushpool uses async sockets? threads?
468 2011-04-30 02:29:48 <luke-jr> dunno
469 2011-04-30 02:29:53 docl has joined
470 2011-04-30 02:29:53 <luke-jr> I just know it works :D
471 2011-04-30 02:30:03 <kika> i heard that pushpool does blocking sockets too not sure
472 2011-04-30 02:30:25 <kika> ill have to review the code
473 2011-04-30 02:30:41 <luke-jr> my pool payouts use at least 4 bitcoind patches: multi-threaded RPC, coinbaser, dumpblock, and block_hash in RPC transaction output
474 2011-04-30 02:31:16 <luke-jr> with all that, my first final pool payout code amounted to a total of 50 lines of Python
475 2011-04-30 02:31:37 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
476 2011-04-30 02:31:44 <luke-jr> though I just expanded it to 320 lines to handle more than 50 miners
477 2011-04-30 02:31:48 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
478 2011-04-30 02:31:54 <kika> i see
479 2011-04-30 02:32:05 <kika> so when do you perform payouts?
480 2011-04-30 02:32:14 <luke-jr> immediately, as part of the block
481 2011-04-30 02:32:31 <kika> i see so you pay as soon as the pool solves a block
482 2011-04-30 02:32:35 <luke-jr> yep
483 2011-04-30 02:32:40 <kika> thats cool
484 2011-04-30 02:32:43 <kika> thats what i want to do
485 2011-04-30 02:32:50 <kika> you are my competitor lo
486 2011-04-30 02:32:50 <luke-jr> good luck
487 2011-04-30 02:32:52 <kika> lol
488 2011-04-30 02:32:53 <luke-jr> that's complex
489 2011-04-30 02:33:01 <luke-jr> it's also the feature I'm keeping my code private for ;)
490 2011-04-30 02:33:08 <kika> hehe
491 2011-04-30 02:33:08 <kika> yes
492 2011-04-30 02:33:11 <kika> i know i know
493 2011-04-30 02:33:12 <luke-jr> at least until it grows to sustainable size
494 2011-04-30 02:33:22 <kika> do you have many miners
495 2011-04-30 02:33:28 <luke-jr> ;;bc,lukepool
496 2011-04-30 02:33:29 <gribble> 10766051.3553
497 2011-04-30 02:33:30 <doublec> puddinpop's pool code did similar kika if you're looking for an example
498 2011-04-30 02:33:31 nutcase has joined
499 2011-04-30 02:33:34 davex__ has joined
500 2011-04-30 02:33:36 <luke-jr> 10 GH now I guess
501 2011-04-30 02:33:41 <luke-jr> just over 1% of the network
502 2011-04-30 02:33:54 <luke-jr> doublec: puddinpop's pool did it totally different though, as I understand it
503 2011-04-30 02:34:02 <doublec> luke-jr: yes
504 2011-04-30 02:34:05 <kika> doublec: similar to what? what you are talking about? payouts?
505 2011-04-30 02:34:06 <luke-jr> doublec: and required non-standard miners and was vulnerable to some exploit
506 2011-04-30 02:34:43 <kika> luke-jr: did you review the pushpool code for any security issues?
507 2011-04-30 02:35:10 <doublec> see AddDistributionFromContributed here: https://github.com/doublec/bitcoin-pool/blob/master/src/remote/remoteminer.cpp
508 2011-04-30 02:35:42 devrandom has joined
509 2011-04-30 02:36:47 <kika> doublec: ok
510 2011-04-30 02:40:37 <kika> doublec: i was having in mind to just do sendcoins rpc call to do payouts
511 2011-04-30 02:40:46 <kika> luke-jr: that would be okay right?
512 2011-04-30 02:41:06 <luke-jr> kika: if you want to lose money
513 2011-04-30 02:41:15 <kika> luke-jr: why loose money?
514 2011-04-30 02:41:30 <luke-jr> kika: orphaned blocks
515 2011-04-30 02:41:49 <kika> luke-jr: but i wont give anyone a share on orphan blocks?
516 2011-04-30 02:42:14 <kika> i wont pay orphan blocks
517 2011-04-30 02:42:31 <kika> ill just pay blocks that the bitcoin network payed my pooler for
518 2011-04-30 02:42:33 <luke-jr> kika: then you have to wait 120 blocks to know it isn't orphan
519 2011-04-30 02:42:51 <kika> how much time would be 120 blocks ? do you have idea?
520 2011-04-30 02:43:01 <luke-jr> 20 hours
521 2011-04-30 02:43:16 <kika> ok, thats okay ill process payments once per day
522 2011-04-30 02:43:48 <kika> ill basically make my pushpoold to point to a rpc server ( bitcoind )
523 2011-04-30 02:43:58 <kika> then bitcoind would have its own bitcoin address and waller i think
524 2011-04-30 02:44:16 <kika> so every block pushpoold generates it will go to that bitcoin address and wallet, it will be stored there
525 2011-04-30 02:44:17 <kika> right?
526 2011-04-30 02:44:59 <kika> if i configure pushpoold to use bitcoind rpc server, then all the pool coins will be saved on the bitcoind server right?
527 2011-04-30 02:45:04 <luke-jr> yep, a different address each time
528 2011-04-30 02:46:28 <kika> luke-jr: but i can configure it to do it for the same address always right
529 2011-04-30 02:46:47 <kika> luke-jr: you say for each generated block it will save the coins on a different address bitcoind ? o_O
530 2011-04-30 02:47:06 <kika> bitcoind will generate a random address right?
531 2011-04-30 02:47:10 <luke-jr> kika: yep
532 2011-04-30 02:47:19 <kika> so i can make it be a static address?
533 2011-04-30 02:47:22 <luke-jr> why?
534 2011-04-30 02:47:55 <kika> because it would be easier it would be "my pooler main address", and then ill send bitcoins from that address to each miner when doing payouts
535 2011-04-30 02:48:28 <luke-jr> you don't send from an address
536 2011-04-30 02:48:38 <luke-jr> transactions have no 'from address' of any use
537 2011-04-30 02:48:54 <kika> so i just send from bitcoind ?
538 2011-04-30 02:48:59 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@76.251.231.82|Netsniper
539 2011-04-30 02:49:04 <luke-jr> yes
540 2011-04-30 02:49:12 <kika> luke-jr: i tought to send bitcoins i would send them from an account
541 2011-04-30 02:49:29 <kika> and bitcoind can have many accounts and each account is associated with a different address?
542 2011-04-30 02:49:31 <luke-jr> account != address
543 2011-04-30 02:49:41 <luke-jr> accounts are not associated with addresses
544 2011-04-30 02:49:47 <kika> ill need to check what an account is then
545 2011-04-30 02:49:54 <luke-jr> just an accounting label
546 2011-04-30 02:50:00 <kika> i see
547 2011-04-30 02:50:14 <kika> so bitcoind would save all my coins on the wallet at a given static address
548 2011-04-30 02:50:31 <kika> then i would send from bitcoind using rpc sendcoins call to all the miners that have shares
549 2011-04-30 02:50:35 <kika> once per day
550 2011-04-30 02:50:38 <kika> and thats all
551 2011-04-30 02:50:39 <kika> :)
552 2011-04-30 02:50:59 Kiba has joined
553 2011-04-30 02:51:07 <lianj> could you craft the block you send out to pool miners with the payout txs already in?
554 2011-04-30 02:51:10 <kika> luke-jr: how does that sound for you ?
555 2011-04-30 02:51:27 noagendamarket has joined
556 2011-04-30 02:51:29 jargon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
557 2011-04-30 02:51:34 <kika> lianj: what do you mean by craft?
558 2011-04-30 02:51:53 <lianj> just add the payout already, if you win the payout is in
559 2011-04-30 02:52:02 <luke-jr> lianj: my pool does that
560 2011-04-30 02:52:22 <lianj> luke-jr: :) nice, im plaing on doing this too :)
561 2011-04-30 02:52:39 <lianj> *play
562 2011-04-30 02:52:55 <kika> lianj: you mean that when my pool finds a block i add the txs to distribute the shares to each miner in there?
563 2011-04-30 02:53:05 <lianj> yes
564 2011-04-30 02:53:06 <luke-jr> lianj: or just join my pool <.<
565 2011-04-30 02:53:18 <luke-jr> kika: single, coinbase tx
566 2011-04-30 02:53:52 <kika> lianj: yes the thing is that to do that i would need to code low level stuff, otherwise i would just call sencoins rpc call thats high level and it will do it all
567 2011-04-30 02:55:03 <lianj> luke-jr: wanne code some more on bitcoin, might just join yours in the end though ;)
568 2011-04-30 02:55:49 <kika> is there any documentation that explains better transactions than the bitcoin wiki ?
569 2011-04-30 02:56:03 <kika> i want to basically understand how the blocks are distributed on the network
570 2011-04-30 02:56:10 <kika> created, etc
571 2011-04-30 02:56:17 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
572 2011-04-30 02:56:36 <kika> when someone solves a block i think he advertises it as solved to every node
573 2011-04-30 02:56:53 <kika> every node checks the inputs to see if they match with current outputs
574 2011-04-30 02:56:55 <kika> right?
575 2011-04-30 02:57:32 <kika> to consider the advertised block solved and valid, every node does those checks
576 2011-04-30 02:58:34 dreamer_ has joined
577 2011-04-30 02:59:33 dreamer_ has quit (Client Quit)
578 2011-04-30 03:02:40 <sacarlson> why would my testnet chain that has a balance of 1000 with getbalance after 20 confirmations return 0 with getbalance 1 that should return balance with at least 1 confirmation? maybe I don't understand what it considers a confirmation?
579 2011-04-30 03:03:43 dvide has quit ()
580 2011-04-30 03:06:21 <sacarlson> kika: sounds about right to me
581 2011-04-30 03:08:46 jroot has joined
582 2011-04-30 03:09:05 <kika> sacarlson: once every 2 weeks the clients adjusts the difficulty to make sure only one block each 10 min can be generated right?
583 2011-04-30 03:09:19 <sacarlson> kika I think of it as an ecrypted ledger that everyone shares when someone transacts the encrypted coin is signed over to the new owner with his private key so only he can decode and when enuf people have verified the transaction he can spend it
584 2011-04-30 03:10:08 <sacarlson> kika: yes I beleave so it makes an adjustment depending on the power it detects in the number of hashes found
585 2011-04-30 03:10:51 jargon has joined
586 2011-04-30 03:11:50 <tcatm> I've started to work on a very simple CLI for bitcoind: https://github.com/tcatm/bitcoin/tree/cli
587 2011-04-30 03:12:12 <sacarlson> tcatm: what does it change?
588 2011-04-30 03:12:30 <sacarlson> smaller commands?
589 2011-04-30 03:12:45 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
590 2011-04-30 03:12:47 toffoo has joined
591 2011-04-30 03:13:02 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
592 2011-04-30 03:13:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120964 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 2011 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 13 hours, 29 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 419656.12485543
593 2011-04-30 03:13:07 <tcatm> sacarlson: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=KcqP7Mre
594 2011-04-30 03:13:55 <kika> sacarlson: so basically confirmations means a transaction is included in a solved block right?
595 2011-04-30 03:13:57 <tcatm> you can also do echo "sendfrom account address amount"|bitcoind
596 2011-04-30 03:14:11 <sacarlson> tcatm: ok so it becomes like a bitcoind shell
597 2011-04-30 03:14:26 <tcatm> yep
598 2011-04-30 03:14:38 <luke-jr> tcatm: but does it have tab completionâ :P
599 2011-04-30 03:15:00 <tcatm> luke-jr: it's on my todo. for now I call getline()
600 2011-04-30 03:15:17 <tcatm> i.e. tab completion for commands, addreses from addressbook, account names...
601 2011-04-30 03:15:38 <sacarlson> kika: yes once a block is solved it can be passed back and forth indefinitly to unlimited number of nodes. once a new block is discovered it lives on and is passed on
602 2011-04-30 03:16:07 <luke-jr> tcatm: but bitcoind has no addressbookâ¦
603 2011-04-30 03:16:30 <tcatm> luke-jr: sure. it's in the wallet
604 2011-04-30 03:16:33 <kika> sacarlson: so basically when a block is solved a node advertises it to all the nodes its connected to and each one of those nodes advertises it to all the nodes they are connected to recursively right?
605 2011-04-30 03:16:45 <sacarlson> kika: oh yes and the minners also confirm all the transactions they have seen before they minned there newist coins
606 2011-04-30 03:16:59 <tcatm> though the jsonrpc command set is not a good choice
607 2011-04-30 03:17:06 <luke-jr> tcatm: surely this is a CLI for bitcoind, not another interface for the monster monolithic bitcoin client?
608 2011-04-30 03:17:26 <luke-jr> eg, it connects via JSON-RPC
609 2011-04-30 03:17:33 <tcatm> luke-jr: basically it's a RPCthread tied to stdin/out
610 2011-04-30 03:17:46 <kika> what if i run a malicious miner that just includes my coinbase transaction?
611 2011-04-30 03:17:56 <tcatm> you can pass it raw json data like {"method": "getinfo"}
612 2011-04-30 03:18:10 <luke-jr> tcatm: why not split that off the original codebase like it should be? ;)
613 2011-04-30 03:18:21 <tcatm> how would that work?
614 2011-04-30 03:18:34 <luke-jr> tcatm: the same way any good client-server architecture works
615 2011-04-30 03:18:54 <luke-jr> kika: then your hashes won't match the pool's coinbase txn merkle root
616 2011-04-30 03:18:57 <tcatm> that's exactly what I want to avoid with the cli interface: no tcpserver on port 8332 anymore
617 2011-04-30 03:18:57 <kika> sacarlson: what if someone runs a malicious miners that doesnt includes the other nodes transactions on the blocks it solves? and it just includes its coinbase transaction ?
618 2011-04-30 03:18:57 <sacarlson> kika: on windows? I don't see why they couldn't do anything they wanted if you don't know what the code is you run
619 2011-04-30 03:19:13 <luke-jr> tcatm: then it's flawed by design -.-
620 2011-04-30 03:19:17 <tcatm> why?
621 2011-04-30 03:19:22 <sacarlson> kika: but I only run compiled code and I study what I run
622 2011-04-30 03:19:33 <luke-jr> tcatm: because interface should only ever talk to wallet over a socket of some kind
623 2011-04-30 03:19:56 <sacarlson> kika: and everyone else that develops looks at the opensource software to prove it is valid
624 2011-04-30 03:20:10 <luke-jr> kika: oh, then the miner just can't collect the fees
625 2011-04-30 03:20:11 <tcatm> luke-jr: that's not how the current code structure works...
626 2011-04-30 03:20:20 <kika> sacarlson: yes thats what im trying to do im studying the src code of bitcoin
627 2011-04-30 03:20:25 <luke-jr> tcatm: I agree, the current code structure is poorly designed.
628 2011-04-30 03:21:20 <kika> so if my node solves a block but my nodes doesnt received transactions from other nodes, then my block will never be able to be valid?
629 2011-04-30 03:21:26 <luke-jr> tcatm: it's like Windows, where applications try to be everything and the kitchen faucet all in one
630 2011-04-30 03:21:38 <tcatm> luke-jr: agreed. wallet should be separated.
631 2011-04-30 03:21:47 <luke-jr> tcatm: rather than like *nix, where applications do one thing, and do it right, and simply tie together with other well-designed apps
632 2011-04-30 03:22:27 <sacarlson> kika: no if you solve a block you will broadcast you have found it to the world and also update the chain to the world
633 2011-04-30 03:22:35 <tcatm> I just have several wallets in different datadirs and wanted to avoid running a bitcoind and communicate via RPC/tcp when all I want to do is send some coins.
634 2011-04-30 03:23:08 <luke-jr> tcatm: for now, there's an easy solution in RPC/stdio ;)
635 2011-04-30 03:23:30 <tcatm> so now I can do: bitcoind\n getinfo (wait until blockchain synced)\n sendfrom account address amount \n stop \n
636 2011-04-30 03:24:02 <sacarlson> kika: then your copy is the latist chain and will be used in the making of the next block that is found
637 2011-04-30 03:24:36 <luke-jr> kika: miners don't have to include any transactions
638 2011-04-30 03:25:12 <kika> luke-jr: so i just cant collect fees but i can earn those 50btc if i dont include transactions
639 2011-04-30 03:25:29 <kika> transaction fees i mena
640 2011-04-30 03:25:32 <luke-jr> yep
641 2011-04-30 03:26:07 <kika> sacarlson: so i solve a block, i notify all the nodes im connected to
642 2011-04-30 03:26:27 <kika> sacarlson: all those nodes notifies all the nodes they are connected to recursively
643 2011-04-30 03:26:52 <sacarlson> kika: yes and I guess they send it to all they are connect to and they send it to all they are and ......
644 2011-04-30 03:27:00 <kika> sacarlson: so that way every one will know my solved block
645 2011-04-30 03:27:11 <sacarlson> kika: yes
646 2011-04-30 03:27:41 <kika> then when i solve the block, it includes a hash
647 2011-04-30 03:28:00 <sacarlson> kika: after your block has been confirmed 120 times you can then spend you 50 btc minned coins
648 2011-04-30 03:28:09 <kika> i see
649 2011-04-30 03:28:15 <luke-jr> sacarlson: 100 technically
650 2011-04-30 03:28:15 <kika> so basically
651 2011-04-30 03:28:36 <sacarlson> luke-jr your right 100 just the user interface I guess adds 20 more
652 2011-04-30 03:28:38 <kika> when someone wants to send coins to someone else
653 2011-04-30 03:29:03 <kika> their client just broadcast a transaction message to every node on the network telling it wants to send coins?
654 2011-04-30 03:29:13 <luke-jr> yep
655 2011-04-30 03:29:32 <kika> then all the nodes listeting will see this transaction request
656 2011-04-30 03:29:42 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
657 2011-04-30 03:29:48 <kika> and will try to include the transaction on the blocks they solve
658 2011-04-30 03:29:49 <kika> right?
659 2011-04-30 03:29:59 <luke-jr> if they choose to
660 2011-04-30 03:30:15 <sacarlson> kika: well you must have an address to send it too first so the payee must give you that then you send it to that number and only he has the private key to decode that number
661 2011-04-30 03:30:31 <kika> okay if they want, if they dont want, then they can just solve a block and not include my transaction
662 2011-04-30 03:30:58 <kika> sacarlson: yes i understand that
663 2011-04-30 03:31:21 <kika> so basically i hash the block header
664 2011-04-30 03:31:52 <kika> are the transactions hashed?
665 2011-04-30 03:32:30 <sacarlson> kika: the code uses hashes in many places
666 2011-04-30 03:32:38 tabsa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
667 2011-04-30 03:32:48 <kika> im just trying to find a doc that explains transactions and the merklee tree thing
668 2011-04-30 03:33:05 <kika> because i still dont understand exactly when every node tries to do
669 2011-04-30 03:33:15 <tcatm> did you read the paper?
670 2011-04-30 03:33:52 <kika> sha256 ( data + nonce ) to find a hash that can be considered okay to solve a block, what the data is there? the data is just the block header? the data includes all the block transactions?
671 2011-04-30 03:33:59 <sacarlson> kika: the merklee tree thing from my vage understanding is just a hashed phrase that proves the date of creation of the block chain by a line from a news paper article
672 2011-04-30 03:34:17 <luke-jr> you both fail to understand it
673 2011-04-30 03:34:29 <luke-jr> the merkle tree is just an (indirect) hash of all the transactions
674 2011-04-30 03:34:48 <luke-jr> that way no matter how many transactions you include, the block header itself is always 80 bytes
675 2011-04-30 03:34:49 <kika> merklee trees to my understanding have a top hash
676 2011-04-30 03:35:08 <kika> so i think the top hash of the merklee tree is stored on the block header
677 2011-04-30 03:35:13 <sacarlson> luke-jr I note that the merkle hash never changes unless I change the phrase
678 2011-04-30 03:35:14 <tcatm> the top hash is what is stored in the block header ("merkleroot")
679 2011-04-30 03:35:26 <kika> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_tree
680 2011-04-30 03:35:27 <luke-jr> sacarlson: what phrase?
681 2011-04-30 03:35:47 <kika> tcatm: okay so its the top hash right cool
682 2011-04-30 03:35:53 <sacarlson> luke-jr maybe that's only at the beginning?
683 2011-04-30 03:36:03 B0g4r7 has joined
684 2011-04-30 03:36:08 <luke-jr> sacarlson: what phrase?
685 2011-04-30 03:36:12 <sacarlson> luke-jr the phrase the create the merkle hash
686 2011-04-30 03:36:14 <kika> tcatm: so the block 0 generated a merkleroot from thin air? randonly ?
687 2011-04-30 03:36:15 <luke-jr> sacarlson: what phrase?
688 2011-04-30 03:36:23 <luke-jr> the merkle hash is created from transactions
689 2011-04-30 03:36:31 <sacarlson> luke-jr I'll find the line in the code give me a moment
690 2011-04-30 03:36:58 FrankyJoe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
691 2011-04-30 03:37:42 <tcatm> kika: look closer at block 0. it contains one transaction and the merkle root is just the hash of that transaction
692 2011-04-30 03:37:52 <kika> sacarlson: the hash should change every time a new transaction is included i think
693 2011-04-30 03:38:16 <kika> tcatm: yes thats okay then if some transaction is included in block 1
694 2011-04-30 03:38:32 danbri has quit (Read error: No route to host)
695 2011-04-30 03:38:39 <B0g4r7> Not all blocks have transactions.
696 2011-04-30 03:38:58 <tcatm> B0g4r7: wrong. all blocks have at least one transaction
697 2011-04-30 03:38:59 danbri has joined
698 2011-04-30 03:39:15 <B0g4r7> Well, they have the 50BTC mined.
699 2011-04-30 03:39:32 <B0g4r7> I guess that counts?
700 2011-04-30 03:39:35 <tcatm> sure
701 2011-04-30 03:39:42 <kika> tcatm: block 1 has the merkeroot = the transaction hash
702 2011-04-30 03:39:44 <luke-jr> tcatm: how about in 200 years?
703 2011-04-30 03:39:48 <luke-jr> tcatm: 0 txn or 0 amount?
704 2011-04-30 03:40:00 <tcatm> luke-jr: ?
705 2011-04-30 03:40:01 <kika> wondering how the merkleroot is calculated then
706 2011-04-30 03:40:10 <luke-jr> tcatm: when the reward shifts away to nothing
707 2011-04-30 03:40:23 <tcatm> blocks would still have at least the generation TX
708 2011-04-30 03:40:24 <luke-jr> tcatm: or are there just no blocks generated when there's no txns?
709 2011-04-30 03:40:32 <luke-jr> so a generation txn with amount=0 ?
710 2011-04-30 03:40:35 <tcatm> yep
711 2011-04-30 03:41:02 <tcatm> remember, that amount contains the fees
712 2011-04-30 03:42:00 <kika> so how is the merklteeroot calculated ?
713 2011-04-30 03:42:09 <luke-jr> tcatm: if there's no (other) txns, there's no fees
714 2011-04-30 03:42:18 <tcatm> luke-jr: so amount would be 0
715 2011-04-30 03:42:34 <luke-jr> tcatm: or miners would just shutdown until they had a fee
716 2011-04-30 03:42:40 <tcatm> yep...
717 2011-04-30 03:43:08 <sacarlson> luke-jr this line const char* pszTimestamp = "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"; is used to create the first merkleroot
718 2011-04-30 03:43:09 <tcatm> though, if that actually happens I hope there are enough transactions with fees
719 2011-04-30 03:43:27 <luke-jr> sacarlson: I think that's just a coinbaseâ¦
720 2011-04-30 03:43:39 <sacarlson> luke-jr so I guess the merkle changes but the merkleroot is always the same
721 2011-04-30 03:43:42 <luke-jr> tcatm: by then, bitcoin will be thriving or dead
722 2011-04-30 03:44:05 <tcatm> kika: you hash two leafs, duplicating the right most leaf if you don't have an even number.
723 2011-04-30 03:44:36 <luke-jr> holy crap 220k difficulty
724 2011-04-30 03:46:18 <kika> so the first merkleeroot was generated using that phrase
725 2011-04-30 03:46:35 <kika> thats okay thats to make sure no one fakes the merkleeroot i think
726 2011-04-30 03:46:44 slueth has joined
727 2011-04-30 03:46:52 <slueth> why did the price of bitcoins rise so high?
728 2011-04-30 03:47:04 plato has joined
729 2011-04-30 03:47:12 <tcatm> the first merkleroot is just the hash of the single tx in that block
730 2011-04-30 03:47:19 <plato> hey guys, what's going on in the first tx in this block? http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000005bcc470f7d6fc5d4cb43526e16811413a7a6dd1ec06a6f7e9ed2
731 2011-04-30 03:47:29 <kika> so block 0 has only 1 transaction and the merkleroot of that transaction
732 2011-04-30 03:47:36 <kika> is the hash of the transaction
733 2011-04-30 03:47:45 <tcatm> yep
734 2011-04-30 03:47:49 <kika> i mean the merkleroot of the block 0 is the hash of the transaction
735 2011-04-30 03:47:50 <kika> but
736 2011-04-30 03:47:54 <kika> the same happens for block 1
737 2011-04-30 03:48:08 <tcatm> plato: what's wrong with it?
738 2011-04-30 03:48:12 <kika> and block 3
739 2011-04-30 03:48:18 <kika> and block 2
740 2011-04-30 03:48:19 <kika> why?
741 2011-04-30 03:48:27 <sacarlson> I think my exchange will be working by tomaro http://exchange.surething.biz
742 2011-04-30 03:48:46 <tcatm> kika: because those blocks only have one transaction
743 2011-04-30 03:48:47 <luke-jr> plato: lots of small coins being melted into a single 92 BTC coin
744 2011-04-30 03:49:16 <luke-jr> OMG
745 2011-04-30 03:49:23 <luke-jr> I just thought of the BEST IDEA EVER
746 2011-04-30 03:49:24 <kika> tcatm: if they have more than ona transaction then the merkleroot would be calculated using the hash of all the txs the block includes?
747 2011-04-30 03:49:37 <tcatm> kika: yep
748 2011-04-30 03:49:59 <plato> luke-jr: those are all the same coin
749 2011-04-30 03:50:02 <kika> tcatm: and how do you know which txs are leafs are which ones are not etc
750 2011-04-30 03:50:25 <plato> oh, hmm
751 2011-04-30 03:50:41 <plato> so, these were all sent to this address?
752 2011-04-30 03:50:52 <luke-jr> plato: no they aren't.
753 2011-04-30 03:51:07 <luke-jr> yes, lots of smaller coins sent to the same address
754 2011-04-30 03:51:10 <tcatm> kika: that's easy. initially all txhashes are leaves. if you have an uneven number of hashes you duplicate the lsat one
755 2011-04-30 03:51:24 <luke-jr> plato: look at the txn itself http://blockexplorer.com/tx/f35a356998b5d6085435dcda627ff66435155fe226bddf8bef1aba43d15bc286
756 2011-04-30 03:51:25 Teslah has quit (Quit: Leaving)
757 2011-04-30 03:51:48 <kika> tcatm: uhmmm so the tree would always be one level tree?
758 2011-04-30 03:51:58 <tcatm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hash_tree.png
759 2011-04-30 03:52:11 <plato> luke-jr: yeah, just did - so, these were all sent to that address, then sent elsewhere?
760 2011-04-30 03:52:18 <tcatm> kika: Hash 0-0, 0-1, 1-0, 1-1 are the txhashes
761 2011-04-30 03:52:20 <kika> tcatm: so if i have tx 1 tx 2 tx 3
762 2011-04-30 03:52:23 <kika> tx 4
763 2011-04-30 03:52:28 <kika> in block 4
764 2011-04-30 03:52:37 <luke-jr> plato: that transaction melted them all down, made a single 92 BTC coin, and sent that coin to a new address
765 2011-04-30 03:52:41 <kika> how would the merklteeroot be calculated?
766 2011-04-30 03:52:53 <tcatm> two txhashes are hashed into a new hash
767 2011-04-30 03:53:05 <tcatm> so after the first iteration you have hash 0 and hash 1
768 2011-04-30 03:53:08 sprash has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
769 2011-04-30 03:53:12 <kika> tcatm: and what are Hash 0, Hash 1 ?
770 2011-04-30 03:53:21 <kika> tcatm: what are the data bloocks?
771 2011-04-30 03:53:33 <tcatm> Hash 0 = hash(Hash 0-0 + Hash 0-1)
772 2011-04-30 03:53:48 <kika> + is concatenation right
773 2011-04-30 03:53:52 <tcatm> yep
774 2011-04-30 03:53:55 <kika> and hash is sha256 in bitcoin case
775 2011-04-30 03:54:10 <kika> so this three has only 3 levels
776 2011-04-30 03:54:26 <tcatm> correct
777 2011-04-30 03:54:44 <kika> sorry 4 levels... top hash ( level 1 ), hash 0 ( level 2), hash 0-0 etc ( level 3), data blocks ( level 4 )
778 2011-04-30 03:54:48 <tcatm> the datablocks are just the transactions which are hashed
779 2011-04-30 03:55:00 <kika> all the merkle trees on bitcoins are 4 levels trees?
780 2011-04-30 03:55:39 <kika> every merkle tree can have only 4 levels?
781 2011-04-30 03:55:55 <tcatm> if you have more transactions in a block you'll get more levels
782 2011-04-30 03:56:39 <kika> i understand now thxs tcatm!
783 2011-04-30 03:56:51 <kika> so why use merkle trees?
784 2011-04-30 03:56:55 <kika> on bitcoin
785 2011-04-30 03:57:04 <kika> only to store the hash on the block header?
786 2011-04-30 03:57:28 sprash has joined
787 2011-04-30 03:57:31 <tcatm> it's a great way to compress all transactions into a fixed length field
788 2011-04-30 03:57:37 <kika> so basically i solve a block
789 2011-04-30 03:57:54 <kika> that means i found a share256 thats < current target
790 2011-04-30 03:58:01 <kika> *sha256
791 2011-04-30 03:58:04 RenaKunisaki has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
792 2011-04-30 03:58:18 <tcatm> this allows us to proof that a transaction is included in a certain block
793 2011-04-30 03:58:34 <kika> basically that means i found a sha256( sha256( blockheader + nonce ) ) < current target , right ?
794 2011-04-30 03:59:04 <tcatm> yep, that's how blocks are solved
795 2011-04-30 03:59:19 <kika> so basically how i include the transactions?
796 2011-04-30 03:59:25 <kika> who stores the transactions?
797 2011-04-30 03:59:45 <kika> what if everyone on the network removes the transactions and we only keep with the merkleroots of those transactions?
798 2011-04-30 04:00:01 <kika> when i solve a block i send everyone the
799 2011-04-30 04:00:08 <kika> sha256( sha256( blockheader + nonce ) ) i found
800 2011-04-30 04:00:23 <tcatm> miner has a list of transactions. they get filtered (only valid tx, no orphaned inputs), then hashed and the merkle root is calculated
801 2011-04-30 04:00:24 <kika> and what more?
802 2011-04-30 04:01:23 <kika> when you say "hashed"
803 2011-04-30 04:01:24 <tcatm> you also announce the list of transactions included in that block
804 2011-04-30 04:01:26 <kika> what do you mean?
805 2011-04-30 04:01:35 <tcatm> hashed = sha256()
806 2011-04-30 04:01:45 <kika> i see you mean sha256( sha256( blockheader + nonce ) ) ?
807 2011-04-30 04:02:04 <tcatm> no, sha256(binary representation of transaction)
808 2011-04-30 04:02:14 <kika> i see
809 2011-04-30 04:02:24 <kika> so basically the miner has the list of valid transactions
810 2011-04-30 04:02:34 <kika> then the miner
811 2011-04-30 04:02:38 <kika> hashes each transaction
812 2011-04-30 04:03:05 <kika> then using each transaction hash it builds on the merkleroot and includes it in the block header
813 2011-04-30 04:03:33 <kika> right?
814 2011-04-30 04:03:38 <tcatm> right
815 2011-04-30 04:03:42 <kika> cool :D
816 2011-04-30 04:03:55 <kika> what are orhphaned inputs?
817 2011-04-30 04:04:10 <kika> i know that valid txs are txs that the inputs have a valid output
818 2011-04-30 04:04:23 <tcatm> transactions have inputs that reference other transactions outputs
819 2011-04-30 04:04:32 <kika> sorry i mean the outputs must have a valid input?
820 2011-04-30 04:04:45 <tcatm> no the input must have valid outputs
821 2011-04-30 04:04:49 RenaKunisaki has joined
822 2011-04-30 04:05:18 <kika> but
823 2011-04-30 04:05:19 <tcatm> orphaned transactions are transactions where the transaction used in one input is not known to the miner
824 2011-04-30 04:05:30 <kika> block 0 has an input that has no valid output
825 2011-04-30 04:06:14 <tcatm> the first transaction in each block is a special transaction. it's called "coinbase" and does not need a valid input
826 2011-04-30 04:06:26 <tcatm> it's where the 50 BTC reward for every block comes from
827 2011-04-30 04:07:32 <kika> i see
828 2011-04-30 04:07:46 <kika> so basically every other tx needs an valid input
829 2011-04-30 04:07:51 <tcatm> yep
830 2011-04-30 04:08:08 <kika> to block 0 generates no inputso
831 2011-04-30 04:08:10 <kika> or outputs
832 2011-04-30 04:08:20 <tcatm> do you know this site? http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
833 2011-04-30 04:08:39 <kika> nopes
834 2011-04-30 04:08:40 <kika> checking
835 2011-04-30 04:09:01 <tcatm> it has a realtime list of all known unconfirmed transaction (= not included in any blocks)
836 2011-04-30 04:09:14 <kika> Thash is 1024Ghash i guess
837 2011-04-30 04:09:24 <tcatm> yep
838 2011-04-30 04:10:40 Aahzmundus has quit ()
839 2011-04-30 04:11:12 <kika> i see cool
840 2011-04-30 04:11:14 <slueth> why did the prices go up so much?
841 2011-04-30 04:11:16 <kika> this site is cool
842 2011-04-30 04:12:24 <tcatm> slueth: no idea... I see a lot new visitors on my websites so I assume bitcoin's userbase is growing..
843 2011-04-30 04:12:32 jargon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
844 2011-04-30 04:12:48 zyb has joined
845 2011-04-30 04:14:30 <kika> tcatm: so.... block 0 generated 50 btc to satoshi i think that had a random bitcoin address
846 2011-04-30 04:14:42 ivan has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
847 2011-04-30 04:14:57 <kika> this address http://blockexplorer.com/address/1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa
848 2011-04-30 04:15:15 <sacarlson> tcatm: I should look at the tool that creates that list to look at my new chain, maybe it will detect why my bitcoind balance 1 always returns 0
849 2011-04-30 04:15:35 ivan has joined
850 2011-04-30 04:15:54 <tcatm> sacarlson: it's not opensource
851 2011-04-30 04:16:14 <sacarlson> tcatm ok but I did see there was tools that I haven't played with yet
852 2011-04-30 04:16:20 <plato> i'm trying to understand the scale factor of a current 'bitcoin.' if bitcoin was 8bit, would it be represented as 10010000 = 9 "BTC" with four 'decimal places' as termed by the forum?
853 2011-04-30 04:16:38 <kika> so basically an address is kindof random and temp
854 2011-04-30 04:16:42 <tcatm> plato: ?? :)
855 2011-04-30 04:16:50 <kika> accounts can have many addresses i guess?
856 2011-04-30 04:16:55 <kika> accounts groups addresses?
857 2011-04-30 04:17:09 <plato> cause, everyone says we can go down to 10E-8 * 1BTC, but if it's 8 bits of zeros at the end of the current representation, that's not 10E-8
858 2011-04-30 04:17:12 <tcatm> kika: yep. accounts are purely virtual, though
859 2011-04-30 04:17:45 <kika> tcatm: by virtual you mean they dont exists as an item on bitcoin network, its just a app side thing module
860 2011-04-30 04:18:01 <tcatm> kika: yep. just some software logic to make it easier for users
861 2011-04-30 04:18:13 <kika> tcatm: cool
862 2011-04-30 04:18:27 <dust1> any more news on the mtgox csrf vunerability?
863 2011-04-30 04:18:36 <kika> wondering why when i send a transaction some btcs might get back to myself
864 2011-04-30 04:19:00 <tcatm> plato: it's the other way round. displayed BTC values are real_value / 10e8
865 2011-04-30 04:19:38 phantomcircuit has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
866 2011-04-30 04:19:51 <tcatm> kika: if you have only a 10 BTC "coin" in your wallet and you send 5 BTC to someone, you'll get a 5 BTC change transaction
867 2011-04-30 04:20:00 <plato> ok, cool, sorry for the poorly phrased question :)
868 2011-04-30 04:20:17 <ninjaneo> lol does anyone say things like for 1000 bitcoins 1 kbtc
869 2011-04-30 04:20:27 Denarius has joined
870 2011-04-30 04:20:33 <kika> tcatm: if i generate 50 btc and want to send 25 btc to someone, i would get 25 btc change?
871 2011-04-30 04:20:41 <tcatm> kika: yep
872 2011-04-30 04:20:43 <plato> ninjaneo: i was saying earlier today we should just call 1 satoshi = "1 credit"
873 2011-04-30 04:21:05 <Denarius> Hello everybody?
874 2011-04-30 04:21:05 <plato> kilocreds, megacreds, gigacreds
875 2011-04-30 04:21:11 * plato waves
876 2011-04-30 04:21:13 <kika> tcatm: so basically everytime i send to someone else, all the bitcoins i have change?
877 2011-04-30 04:21:27 <Denarius> Anybody want my silver maples for bitcoin?
878 2011-04-30 04:21:50 <tcatm> kika: depends on the coins you have. if you happen to have the exact amount you want to send you don't get change
879 2011-04-30 04:21:58 <ninjaneo> lol i like the "kilobitcoin" or the "gigabitcoin"
880 2011-04-30 04:22:04 <kika> if i have 1000 btc and i want to send btc
881 2011-04-30 04:22:11 <kika> i want to send 10 btc
882 2011-04-30 04:22:12 <sacarlson> ninjaneo: not that I've ever seen but maybe we will start using uBTC for micro BTC units
883 2011-04-30 04:22:15 <kika> i get 990 btc change
884 2011-04-30 04:22:18 <ninjaneo> hehe
885 2011-04-30 04:22:19 <Denarius> I got 20 silver maples for sell
886 2011-04-30 04:22:21 <kika> right?
887 2011-04-30 04:22:42 <sacarlson> ninjaneo: then there would be nBTC for nano BTC units
888 2011-04-30 04:22:48 <Denarius> each worth 45 to 50 US dollars
889 2011-04-30 04:22:53 Slix` has quit (Quit: { throw std::runtime_error("Client got bored of IRC."); })
890 2011-04-30 04:23:04 <ninjaneo> rofl @ quit msg
891 2011-04-30 04:23:14 jargon has joined
892 2011-04-30 04:23:15 <kika> tcatm
893 2011-04-30 04:23:20 <tcatm> kika: only if you have received those 1000 BTC in one transaction. If someone send you 600 BTC and 400 BTC in different transaction bitcoin would split the 400 BTC tx into 10 BTC + 390 BTC
894 2011-04-30 04:23:48 <kika> it always splits the smaller tx?
895 2011-04-30 04:24:02 <Denarius> What is Bitcoin mining, and how do I mine for Bitcoins?
896 2011-04-30 04:24:15 <ninjaneo> heh ill pm you
897 2011-04-30 04:24:21 <ninjaneo> i brief explination
898 2011-04-30 04:24:23 <kika> tcatm
899 2011-04-30 04:24:40 <tcatm> kika: the rules are a little complicated. it also shuffles your coins so they're harder to trace...
900 2011-04-30 04:25:42 <tcatm> it will, however, try to minimize the number of inputs and avoid change if possible
901 2011-04-30 04:25:58 <kika> tcatm: i dont know what you mean by shuffles
902 2011-04-30 04:26:16 <tcatm> take random coins as inputs
903 2011-04-30 04:26:29 <kika> where i can learn more about those rules?
904 2011-04-30 04:26:46 slueth1 has joined
905 2011-04-30 04:27:29 <sacarlson> Denarius: I'll give you 3 WEEDS for each of your silver maples
906 2011-04-30 04:27:34 <kika> so basically each bitcoin address has a priv and pub keypair associated with it right?
907 2011-04-30 04:27:35 <tcatm> coin selection is not a rule. it's in main.cpp:3740 SelectCoinsMinConf()
908 2011-04-30 04:27:48 <kika> the priv is kept at the wallet and the pub is kept on the bitcoin network too
909 2011-04-30 04:28:26 <tcatm> the pub is only visible when you actually spend coins using the private key
910 2011-04-30 04:28:37 <kika> yup
911 2011-04-30 04:28:48 <kika> so if i generate coins and i dont send them no one knows the pub
912 2011-04-30 04:29:14 <tcatm> right
913 2011-04-30 04:29:26 slueth has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
914 2011-04-30 04:29:26 Denarius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
915 2011-04-30 04:29:26 <kika> i would need to read how are addresses generated and how to make each address correspond to a given private key
916 2011-04-30 04:29:48 <tcatm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_Curve_DSA
917 2011-04-30 04:30:31 <kika> when i generate coins, i need to provide the pub key of the address i want the coins to be deposited on right?
918 2011-04-30 04:30:36 redengin has joined
919 2011-04-30 04:31:00 <tcatm> nope. you only provide the hash of the pubkey
920 2011-04-30 04:31:09 <kika> tcatm: i see cool
921 2011-04-30 04:31:31 <kika> tcatm: that way no one else can claim my coins
922 2011-04-30 04:31:59 <kika> hash160?
923 2011-04-30 04:32:00 <tcatm> they'd need the private key to create a valid input
924 2011-04-30 04:32:07 <kika> thats the hash of the pubkey?
925 2011-04-30 04:32:40 <tcatm> Key hash = Version concatenated with RIPEMD-160(SHA-256(public key))
926 2011-04-30 04:32:40 <kika> i see each address has a hash160 field on blockexplorer
927 2011-04-30 04:33:13 <kika> i see so key hash would be the hash of the pubkey i provide
928 2011-04-30 04:33:33 <kika> version is the version of my bitcoin client?
929 2011-04-30 04:34:00 <tcatm> no, it's just a version for the address format
930 2011-04-30 04:34:02 <kika> tcatm:
931 2011-04-30 04:34:13 BCSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
932 2011-04-30 04:34:17 <kika> so if the address format changes i loose all my coins?
933 2011-04-30 04:34:38 <kika> ah no
934 2011-04-30 04:34:39 <kika> nono wait
935 2011-04-30 04:34:41 <kika> forget it
936 2011-04-30 04:34:41 <kika> lol
937 2011-04-30 04:35:38 <kika> so basically an input
938 2011-04-30 04:35:48 <kika> so basically i want to send coins to someone
939 2011-04-30 04:35:53 <kika> whay ill do in that case is:
940 2011-04-30 04:36:28 <kika> create an input referencing the output of the coinbase tx that i generated my 50btc that im going to send to someone else
941 2011-04-30 04:36:59 <tcatm> yep
942 2011-04-30 04:37:10 <kika> 1) i generate coins, that generates an input without any output
943 2011-04-30 04:37:18 RichardG has quit (Quit: QUIIIIIIIIIIIIIT)
944 2011-04-30 04:37:49 RichardG has joined
945 2011-04-30 04:38:25 <kika> sorry
946 2011-04-30 04:39:04 <kika> 1) i generate 50 btc coinbase tx, that generates an output without any input
947 2011-04-30 04:39:31 <kika> thats okay?
948 2011-04-30 04:39:55 <tcatm> yes
949 2011-04-30 04:40:17 <kika> so if i want to send those 50 btc, i generate an input referencing the output generated in 1)
950 2011-04-30 04:40:41 <kika> 1) is signed with the hash of my pubkey
951 2011-04-30 04:40:53 <kika> lets call the send tx 2)
952 2011-04-30 04:41:21 <kika> so tx 2) has to be signed using?
953 2011-04-30 04:42:06 <kika> tcatm
954 2011-04-30 04:42:32 <kika> when i send the 50 btc to someone else how do i tell everyone else that im able to create an input for output generated in 1) ?
955 2011-04-30 04:42:54 darkbit has joined
956 2011-04-30 04:42:54 <kika> and that im not lying about that those 50 generated btc are mine
957 2011-04-30 04:44:00 <tcatm> every output contains a script that tells what needs to be done to spend the output
958 2011-04-30 04:44:31 <kika> so the coinbase script for the 50 btc i generated in 1)
959 2011-04-30 04:44:39 <tcatm> usually that requires signing with the private key
960 2011-04-30 04:44:55 <tcatm> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Standard_Transaction_to_Bitcoin_address
961 2011-04-30 04:45:39 <tcatm> basically, in your input you provide the missing piece of the output that makes the script valid
962 2011-04-30 04:46:26 <kika> wondering what that missing piece is
963 2011-04-30 04:47:01 <kika> in the output i provided the hash of my pub key right?
964 2011-04-30 04:47:08 <kika> i mean the coinbase output
965 2011-04-30 04:47:35 <kika> and i also indicated that to spend that coinbase output, a OP_CHECKSIG script needs to be done
966 2011-04-30 04:48:01 <tcatm> yes
967 2011-04-30 04:48:39 <sacarlson> kika cool and when you figure out those scripts lets make an p2p escrow to add to it
968 2011-04-30 04:48:40 <kika> so basically when a node receives the tx ( telling them 50 btcs needs to be transfered from output of the coinbase at 1) to someone else )
969 2011-04-30 04:49:07 <kika> the node needs to execute a OP_CHECKSIG script
970 2011-04-30 04:49:16 <kika> to see if the transaction is valid
971 2011-04-30 04:49:29 <kika> sacarlson: sure ;)
972 2011-04-30 04:49:59 <kika> sacarlson: i need to understand 100% bitcoin so i can contribute stuff, i have been learning for a full week now, probably 30 hours
973 2011-04-30 04:50:02 <sacarlson> kika: I'm sure you have to learn how it works first
974 2011-04-30 04:50:21 <kika> so im still newbie
975 2011-04-30 04:50:23 <sacarlson> kika: I've only been learning about 2 weeks myself
976 2011-04-30 04:50:35 <kika> yes me too im autodidact
977 2011-04-30 04:51:03 <kika> tcatm
978 2011-04-30 04:51:08 <kika> so basically..
979 2011-04-30 04:51:35 jargon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
980 2011-04-30 04:52:03 <kika> what is the missing piece i provide on the input im wondering
981 2011-04-30 04:53:30 <kika> do you know whats this missing piece tcatm ?
982 2011-04-30 04:53:39 <sacarlson> kika I've been looking and asking about this script stuf also and havn't figured it out yet or how to add to it
983 2011-04-30 04:54:08 <kika> sacarlson: i see i dont find too much doc about it too thats why im asking
984 2011-04-30 04:54:25 <sacarlson> kika: that page he gave you is the best I've seen
985 2011-04-30 04:54:41 <sacarlson> kika other than reading the code itself
986 2011-04-30 04:54:45 <tcatm> look at the table here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Standard_Transaction_to_Bitcoin_address
987 2011-04-30 04:54:46 <kika> sacarlson: yes i seen it im looking at it
988 2011-04-30 04:55:02 <kika> tcatm: yup im there
989 2011-04-30 04:55:08 <tcatm> <sig> and <pubKey> are from the input
990 2011-04-30 04:56:02 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756])
991 2011-04-30 04:56:04 <tcatm> first the pubkey is hashed
992 2011-04-30 04:56:09 <kika> i only see scriptSig at input here http://blockexplorer.com/tx/fff2525b8931402dd09222c50775608f75787bd2b87e56995a7bdd30f79702c4
993 2011-04-30 04:56:28 <tcatm> and checked if equal to hash160 in output
994 2011-04-30 04:57:29 <kika> yes
995 2011-04-30 04:57:30 <kika> i see
996 2011-04-30 04:57:31 <tcatm> if it's equal the signature is checked
997 2011-04-30 04:57:47 <kika> so when im going to send 50 btc i basically create an input with
998 2011-04-30 04:58:14 <kika> my pub key hashed
999 2011-04-30 04:58:39 <kika> so that the receiving node can check if my public key matches the output pub key hashed?
1000 2011-04-30 04:58:52 jargon has joined
1001 2011-04-30 04:58:53 <tcatm> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_CHECKSIG here's some information about signature checking
1002 2011-04-30 04:59:26 <kika> ok
1003 2011-04-30 04:59:26 <tcatm> I have to go now, though...
1004 2011-04-30 04:59:32 <kika> ill read it
1005 2011-04-30 04:59:41 <kika> thanks so much you helped me a lot to learn this stuff
1006 2011-04-30 04:59:42 <kika> !
1007 2011-04-30 04:59:54 <kika> are you usualy on this channel?
1008 2011-04-30 05:00:09 <tcatm> yep, I'm here 24x7 but I might be away
1009 2011-04-30 05:00:21 <kika> so i find you mostly at nights right?
1010 2011-04-30 05:00:30 <kika> i hope be able to talk with you again
1011 2011-04-30 05:00:32 <kika> hehe
1012 2011-04-30 05:00:32 <tcatm> depends on where you live :)
1013 2011-04-30 05:00:39 <kika> Argentina
1014 2011-04-30 05:01:34 <kika> 2am here
1015 2011-04-30 05:01:36 <kika> GMT -3
1016 2011-04-30 05:01:42 <tcatm> 7am here
1017 2011-04-30 05:02:11 <kika> k
1018 2011-04-30 05:02:19 <kika> thxs so much! ill try to learn this script stuff
1019 2011-04-30 05:02:41 <kika> however its much easier with yoy
1020 2011-04-30 05:02:42 <kika> you
1021 2011-04-30 05:02:43 <kika> hehe
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1042 2011-04-30 05:30:53 <luke-jr> ;;bc,lukepool
1043 2011-04-30 05:30:54 <gribble> 10708785.1247
1044 2011-04-30 05:39:14 MJD has joined
1045 2011-04-30 05:39:40 sacarlson has joined
1046 2011-04-30 05:41:11 <sacarlson> oh maybe I misread the help it's bitcoind getbalance minconf=1 not just 1
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1055 2011-04-30 06:06:24 <LobsterMan> when looking at the block chain, you can only see the addresses that coins are sent to and from, not ip addresses though right?
1056 2011-04-30 06:06:48 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1057 2011-04-30 06:07:09 <plato> right
1058 2011-04-30 06:07:31 <plato> dunno if you can see IP's when the tx is initially broadcast to the network
1059 2011-04-30 06:08:48 Kicchiri has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1060 2011-04-30 06:16:42 <nanotube> well, if you happen to be connected to the node that sends the tx, and somehow can be sure that the node is not relaying the tx, but rather originating it... you can know the ip
1061 2011-04-30 06:16:50 <nanotube> but that's not so easy
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1064 2011-04-30 06:19:08 <netxshare> ;;bc,stats
1065 2011-04-30 06:19:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 120993 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 1982 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 5 hours, 5 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 189599.23079775
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1069 2011-04-30 06:22:37 <bk128> I'm about to burn up a pc fan speed controller. 30 watts yeah right... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811995016
1070 2011-04-30 06:23:00 <bk128> heatsink is sizzling after a minute
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1073 2011-04-30 06:24:30 <wiktor_b> hey, i've got trouble running the linux client, i've tried the windows client and it works fine with wine, but i'd rather use the linux version. when i run bitcoin from the xin/64 directory, I just get a black icon in the taskbar, nothing happens when I click it with whatever mouse buttons :(
1074 2011-04-30 06:25:38 <wiktor_b> bin/64 dir of course.
1075 2011-04-30 06:27:35 <cosurgi> hmmm... diablo's works nice with slush.s pool, phoenix can't connect and constantly timeouts.
1076 2011-04-30 06:28:51 <sgornick> MagicalTux: Wiki performance issues returned. Did you change something?
1077 2011-04-30 06:29:52 MJD has joined
1078 2011-04-30 06:30:04 <MagicalTux> sgornick: nothing, however raid resync is at 37%
1079 2011-04-30 06:30:22 <cosurgi> oh it's sunday 1st?
1080 2011-04-30 06:31:05 <cosurgi> hmm.. no, I got no resyncs around.
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1105 2011-04-30 07:59:29 <vorlov> does anyone know of a way in ruby to achieve the same thing decode("hex") does in python
1106 2011-04-30 07:59:30 <vorlov> ?
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1111 2011-04-30 08:21:26 <wiktor_b> is it okay to run the same wallet from two different computers at the same time?
1112 2011-04-30 08:25:20 <sipa> depends for what
1113 2011-04-30 08:25:42 <sipa> if you start spending from both, they will get out of sync, and after 100 transactions, they will have diverged
1114 2011-04-30 08:25:59 <sipa> since the new addresses they generate will differ
1115 2011-04-30 08:26:01 <wiktor_b> i'd only spend from one, the other is just mining
1116 2011-04-30 08:26:34 <sipa> solo mining?
1117 2011-04-30 08:26:41 <wiktor_b> yeah for now
1118 2011-04-30 08:27:27 <sipa> you should regularly synchronize the wallets
1119 2011-04-30 08:27:41 <sipa> and it remains somewhat dangerous, as it is not what the client is intended for
1120 2011-04-30 08:27:43 <wiktor_b> yeah, that's what i thought
1121 2011-04-30 08:27:50 <sipa> but since 0.3.21, it should work
1122 2011-04-30 08:28:02 <wiktor_b> that's what I'm using
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1134 2011-04-30 08:45:39 thedrs has joined
1135 2011-04-30 08:47:11 <thedrs> hi all, i am having problems using bitcoin windows app with socks (sockd and ssh tunnel were tried) has anyone succeeded with this ?
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1137 2011-04-30 08:47:38 <Diablo-D3> should work fine
1138 2011-04-30 08:47:52 <thedrs> have u ever tried it ?
1139 2011-04-30 08:48:09 <Diablo-D3> people use it with tor's socks proxy frequently
1140 2011-04-30 08:49:22 <Diablo-D3> thedrs: you sure you set the proxy ip and port correctly in the preferences?
1141 2011-04-30 08:49:45 <thedrs> yes
1142 2011-04-30 08:50:47 <thedrs> i have a windows machine that uses a linux socks server
1143 2011-04-30 08:50:59 <Diablo-D3> hrm, I wonder if bitcoin automatically rejects socks4 proxies
1144 2011-04-30 08:51:05 <thedrs> i tried the socks server with a web browser and it works fine - just with bitcoin it doesn't
1145 2011-04-30 08:51:08 <Diablo-D3> thedrs: talk to gavin
1146 2011-04-30 08:51:16 <thedrs> has he used it ?
1147 2011-04-30 08:51:26 MJD has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1148 2011-04-30 08:51:33 <Diablo-D3> hes one of the major developers.
1149 2011-04-30 08:52:41 <thedrs> the net the windows machine is on is blocked for outgoing (except port 80) and blocked for all incoming
1150 2011-04-30 08:52:50 <thedrs> the linux is open for in and out
1151 2011-04-30 08:53:19 <thedrs> maybe the problem is the bitcoin initial peer finding algorithim ....
1152 2011-04-30 08:53:19 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1153 2011-04-30 08:54:12 <Diablo-D3> should work fine through a proxy
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1162 2011-04-30 09:07:33 <warpi> is it possible to run several nodes on the same ip?
1163 2011-04-30 09:07:45 <UukGoblin> I do
1164 2011-04-30 09:07:57 <warpi> oki, thx
1165 2011-04-30 09:08:10 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1166 2011-04-30 09:08:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 121013 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 1962 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 11 hours, 48 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 160485.64402993
1167 2011-04-30 09:08:26 <JFK911> does gribble calculate target hash threshold
1168 2011-04-30 09:08:59 <sipa> ;;bc,hel
1169 2011-04-30 09:09:00 <gribble> Error: "bc,hel" is not a valid command.
1170 2011-04-30 09:09:01 <sipa> ;;bc,help
1171 2011-04-30 09:09:01 <gribble> Alias bc,avgprc, Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,lukepool, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and Alias (1 more message)
1172 2011-04-30 09:09:09 <JFK911> aha
1173 2011-04-30 09:09:10 <sipa> ;;bc,hextarget
1174 2011-04-30 09:09:10 <gribble> 00000000000098FA000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
1175 2011-04-30 09:09:18 <sipa> ;;bc,labs
1176 2011-04-30 09:09:22 <JFK911> is hat in normal order?
1177 2011-04-30 09:09:24 <gribble> Block number: 121013 | Time since previous block: 6 minutes and 41 seconds | Transaction count: 7.000 | Block size: 1911 bytes | Average transaction size: 261 bytes
1178 2011-04-30 09:09:34 <JFK911> *that
1179 2011-04-30 09:09:42 <sipa> ;;bc,lbs
1180 2011-04-30 09:09:43 <gribble> Error: "curblockstats" is not a valid command.
1181 2011-04-30 09:09:57 <sipa> ;;bc,avgprc
1182 2011-04-30 09:09:58 <gribble> {"USD": {"7d": "1.9825", "30d": "1.3602", "24h": "2.6590"}, "RUB": {"7d": "42.6632", "30d": "30.0066", "24h": "68.1756"}, "GAU": {"30d": "0.0188"}, "GBP": {"7d": "1.0547", "30d": "0.8276", "24h": "1.4837"}, "PLN": {"7d": "4.9007", "30d": "3.3098", "24h": "7.5349"}, "EUR": {"7d": "1.1356", "30d": "0.7189", "24h": "1.1652"}}
1183 2011-04-30 09:10:17 <JFK911> wow 68 rubles for 1 btc
1184 2011-04-30 09:13:15 Fnar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1188 2011-04-30 09:25:05 rly has joined
1189 2011-04-30 09:25:25 <rly> Does an nvidia 6200 support GPU mining in any way?
1190 2011-04-30 09:25:44 MJD has joined
1191 2011-04-30 09:26:18 <sipa> it's not listed on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison so i doubt it
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1196 2011-04-30 09:33:43 <JFK911> hm the version number changed... maybe it's time to update
1197 2011-04-30 09:34:26 <rly> How do people generally measure how much Watt their GPU is using?
1198 2011-04-30 09:35:17 <JFK911> measure
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1203 2011-04-30 09:37:15 <rly> JFK911: I asked 'how', didn't I?
1204 2011-04-30 09:38:34 <JFK911> i said how
1205 2011-04-30 09:39:00 <JFK911> i can't be more specific. the device i use may not work in your country.
1206 2011-04-30 09:41:03 <thedrs> ;;bc,labs
1207 2011-04-30 09:41:11 <gribble> Block number: 121016 | Time since previous block: 12 minutes and 2 seconds | Transaction count: 13.000 | Block size: 3899 bytes | Average transaction size: 294 bytes
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1209 2011-04-30 09:42:44 <JFK911> i did find they make one for the uk
1210 2011-04-30 09:42:47 m00p has joined
1211 2011-04-30 09:42:55 <JFK911> i didn't see one with shukos for continental europe thou.
1212 2011-04-30 09:44:15 RenaKunisaki has joined
1213 2011-04-30 09:45:48 <JFK911> oh
1214 2011-04-30 09:45:51 <JFK911> it looks like they have them
1215 2011-04-30 09:45:53 <JFK911> http://www.prodigit.com/index.php?lang=en&op=product&pro_num=1052
1216 2011-04-30 09:45:59 <JFK911> but who knows where to buy
1217 2011-04-30 09:46:38 <rly> JFK911: that does not measure the GPU.
1218 2011-04-30 09:46:45 <rly> JFK911: that measures everything.
1219 2011-04-30 09:47:14 <mtrlt> measure with miner on, miner off
1220 2011-04-30 09:47:36 <rly> That only measures how much extra the mining costs.
1221 2011-04-30 09:47:48 <JFK911> yeah
1222 2011-04-30 09:47:54 <rly> Not how much the GPU takes in idle.
1223 2011-04-30 09:47:56 <mtrlt> isn't that the interesting number anyway :P
1224 2011-04-30 09:47:58 <JFK911> it's like weighing items in a container
1225 2011-04-30 09:48:13 <JFK911> the gpu's idle consumption you can find on wikipedia
1226 2011-04-30 09:48:22 <rly> JFK911: that is not measuring.
1227 2011-04-30 09:48:27 <rly> That is faith.
1228 2011-04-30 09:48:29 <JFK911> if their full load numbers match what i measure, the idle should be about okay
1229 2011-04-30 09:48:43 <JFK911> you can remove the gpu also
1230 2011-04-30 09:48:57 <rly> JFK911: sometimes.
1231 2011-04-30 09:49:03 taco_the_paco has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1232 2011-04-30 09:49:13 <JFK911> you found one that supports opencl that you can't remove? :)
1233 2011-04-30 09:49:18 taco_the_paco has joined
1234 2011-04-30 09:49:47 <JFK911> well
1235 2011-04-30 09:49:51 taco_the_paco has quit (Client Quit)
1236 2011-04-30 09:49:58 <JFK911> if you're more serious, you can calculate its heat output.
1237 2011-04-30 09:50:21 warpi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1238 2011-04-30 09:50:25 <JFK911> if you know the mass and surface area of the heatsink, the ambient temperature and humidity, and the airflow of the fan, you know how much heat it's removing.
1239 2011-04-30 09:50:44 <rly> That doesn't sound very practical.
1240 2011-04-30 09:51:08 taco_the_paco has joined
1241 2011-04-30 09:51:28 <rly> I suppose you can measure the 75W connector.
1242 2011-04-30 09:51:39 <JFK911> well heat output is a direct correlation to energy consumed.
1243 2011-04-30 09:51:49 <JFK911> the gpu also gets 5 and 12v from the card socket
1244 2011-04-30 09:51:55 <rly> JFK911: and how are you going to isolate only the heat from the GPU?
1245 2011-04-30 09:52:10 <JFK911> we know the temperature of the gpu
1246 2011-04-30 09:52:12 <rly> JFK911: that was what I was going to say next.
1247 2011-04-30 09:52:21 <rly> JFK911: no, we don't.
1248 2011-04-30 09:52:26 fimp has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1249 2011-04-30 09:52:27 <JFK911> i know mine
1250 2011-04-30 09:52:33 <rly> JFK911: we know what the vendor says is the temperature.
1251 2011-04-30 09:52:40 <rly> That is more faith.
1252 2011-04-30 09:52:41 <JFK911> it's not far off.
1253 2011-04-30 09:53:13 sprash has joined
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1259 2011-04-30 09:59:59 CrazyThinker has joined
1260 2011-04-30 10:00:07 <CrazyThinker> Why public key algorithm does bitcoin use?
1261 2011-04-30 10:00:17 <sipa> ECDSA
1262 2011-04-30 10:00:22 <RenaKunisaki> why?
1263 2011-04-30 10:00:38 <CrazyThinker> Just wondering if it has something to do with RSA
1264 2011-04-30 10:00:52 <sipa> no, RSA is an older public key algorithm
1265 2011-04-30 10:00:52 <RenaKunisaki> I mean, did you mean to ask "why"?
1266 2011-04-30 10:01:13 <sipa> the advantage of ECDSA is mainly smaller keys for the same security strength
1267 2011-04-30 10:01:21 <CrazyThinker> sorry, I meant "Which"
1268 2011-04-30 10:04:51 warpi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1272 2011-04-30 10:14:51 <sipa> khalahan: present?
1273 2011-04-30 10:15:50 <khalahan> yes ?
1274 2011-04-30 10:16:18 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1275 2011-04-30 10:16:33 <sipa> khalahan: in your sign/verify arbitrary data pull request, maybe using this would be useful? http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6430.0
1276 2011-04-30 10:17:22 <khalahan> a new method 'recoverpubkey' ?
1277 2011-04-30 10:17:34 <sipa> yes, i've implemented it already
1278 2011-04-30 10:17:52 <sipa> in short, it's possible to create a 89-character base58 string that conveys both a pubkey and a signature
1279 2011-04-30 10:17:54 davex__ has joined
1280 2011-04-30 10:19:46 <khalahan> i've red you post some days ago
1281 2011-04-30 10:19:53 <BlueMatt> Im not really a huge fan of sign-with-bitcoin-pubkey...addresses should IMHO be used to send/receive coins, not to sign random data
1282 2011-04-30 10:20:17 <BlueMatt> I dont want an online store to make me sign something to prove an address is mine
1283 2011-04-30 10:20:31 <sipa> they can be used for one other thing only: proving that someone owns an address
1284 2011-04-30 10:21:29 <BlueMatt> you could use it to prove data came from you as well
1285 2011-04-30 10:22:28 <khalahan> this may be used for some merchants who want a signed message with the transaction
1286 2011-04-30 10:22:29 Wack0 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1287 2011-04-30 10:22:55 Wack0 has joined
1288 2011-04-30 10:23:02 <BlueMatt> I just dont feel it has a use in the "recommended" flow of paying a merchant
1289 2011-04-30 10:23:24 <BlueMatt> if a merchant uses different addresses per person, they aren't proving anything
1290 2011-04-30 10:23:55 <sipa> a bitcoin bank may use it to prove they actually have a 100% reserve
1291 2011-04-30 10:24:39 MJD has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1292 2011-04-30 10:25:10 Fnar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1293 2011-04-30 10:25:29 <BlueMatt> mmm, yes there are uses, but I feel having it in by default encourages its use where I feel it shouldnt be
1294 2011-04-30 10:25:33 MartianW has joined
1295 2011-04-30 10:26:26 <sacarlson> ok I think I got my exchange working next step is to try to run two bitcoind at the same time to enable running weeds and bitcoin chains at the same time
1296 2011-04-30 10:28:19 <BlueMatt> shouldnt be too hard as long as they use different ports and different -datadir's
1297 2011-04-30 10:28:21 <sacarlson> anyone ever done that? I think they should work since they run on different ports but I need to write or modify the php driver side
1298 2011-04-30 10:28:40 <Diablo-D3> PRONZ
1299 2011-04-30 10:28:45 <BlueMatt> Ive done it, it should just work with different -datadir's and ports
1300 2011-04-30 10:28:47 <khalahan> add : -nolisten -rpcport=xxxx
1301 2011-04-30 10:28:57 <BlueMatt> thank you Diablo-D3
1302 2011-04-30 10:29:04 <BlueMatt> oh yea, and rpcport
1303 2011-04-30 10:29:11 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: what about the php side?
1304 2011-04-30 10:29:12 <sipa> or look at testnet in a box
1305 2011-04-30 10:29:49 <sacarlson> the rpc must have a setting someplace in php
1306 2011-04-30 10:29:53 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: never done the php bitcoin stuff, but Id assume if you just change the rpcport it should work
1307 2011-04-30 10:30:15 <BlueMatt> just replace all the 8332 references
1308 2011-04-30 10:30:21 <sacarlson> oh I forgot to change the rpc port on the bitcoind also so will do that first
1309 2011-04-30 10:30:39 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: ok will do
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1311 2011-04-30 10:32:14 <Diablo-D3> heh
1312 2011-04-30 10:32:17 <Diablo-D3> you know what I want to see?
1313 2011-04-30 10:32:27 <Diablo-D3> "add your own network to bitcoin"
1314 2011-04-30 10:32:39 <BlueMatt> add your own network?
1315 2011-04-30 10:33:22 <Diablo-D3> feed it a json file thats just { "name" : "weeds", "client port" : "8333" } and rpc port is always +1
1316 2011-04-30 10:33:56 <BlueMatt> I really dont want to see bitcoin start encouraging alternate networks
1317 2011-04-30 10:34:00 <BlueMatt> /currencies
1318 2011-04-30 10:34:54 <Diablo-D3> I wouldnt mind, say, a sub-block currency
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1320 2011-04-30 10:35:08 bittercoin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1321 2011-04-30 10:35:12 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I consider it an adition to bitcoin like the new york stock exchange that will hopefully add liquidity to the market
1322 2011-04-30 10:35:31 <Diablo-D3> blocks cycle once every 30 seconds, you need like 5 or 10 blocks to consider it valid
1323 2011-04-30 10:36:45 <BlueMatt> The problem is so much effort is required to get bitcoin going and supported by merchants, adding more alternate currencies just means all that effort gets split
1324 2011-04-30 10:37:07 <BlueMatt> once bitcoin has caught on to some extent, I dont mind it, but for now...
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1327 2011-04-30 10:40:06 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: well I can't learn about it if I don't tinker with it
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1330 2011-04-30 10:41:01 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I'll automate the selection of the network from the address in one of my next versions
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1333 2011-04-30 10:43:02 <BlueMatt> I have no problem with you tinkering with bitcoin, but when you start making people duplicate efforts...
1334 2011-04-30 10:43:38 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I should hope not I hope to keep as close to the git release as posible
1335 2011-04-30 10:43:50 MJD has joined
1336 2011-04-30 10:44:16 <BlueMatt> Oh I dont care about duplicating developer efforts, I mean efforts bootstrapping bitcoin as a currency
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1338 2011-04-30 10:45:13 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I have total faith or I wouldn't be here
1339 2011-04-30 10:45:48 <sipa> i haven't been following in detail, sacarlson
1340 2011-04-30 10:46:02 <sipa> but you wanted some general trading mechanism linked to bitcoin, right?
1341 2011-04-30 10:46:21 <sacarlson> sipa: well it's almost done http://exchange.surething.biz/
1342 2011-04-30 10:46:42 <sacarlson> sipa just adding the final touch of multi coin chain interface
1343 2011-04-30 10:46:52 <BlueMatt> I just feel adding more currencies makes everyone less dedicated to the cause
1344 2011-04-30 10:48:26 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: are you thinking it will take more minners to support?
1345 2011-04-30 10:48:58 <BlueMatt> No Im thinking people will just have 100 different currencies and will try to pimp them all
1346 2011-04-30 10:49:09 <BlueMatt> Check out this other new currency: Weeds
1347 2011-04-30 10:49:20 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I got ya
1348 2011-04-30 10:49:22 <BlueMatt> then people see 100 new currencies and say, well this is pointless
1349 2011-04-30 10:49:54 <sipa> but those 'Weeds', they are virtual representations of ownership of real weed?
1350 2011-04-30 10:50:26 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: good point but I hope to attach value to future chains that make them more like adding an equity market to
1351 2011-04-30 10:50:50 <BlueMatt> then attach that value to bitcoin, not weeds
1352 2011-04-30 10:51:06 <sacarlson> sipa: at this point it's only an experimentle method to move bettween chains in the future
1353 2011-04-30 10:51:45 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: well I did in this case I buy bitcoin and sell them for only a small spread
1354 2011-04-30 10:52:29 <sipa> in general i think that would be very useful (not a separate currency, but a digital way of representing ownership, and having two transactions (one btc tx and one realworld-representing unit) linked to eachother, each signed by both parties in the exchange
1355 2011-04-30 10:52:45 <sipa> so either both txs succeed, or both fail
1356 2011-04-30 10:52:59 <sipa> but i don't see how to do that techically
1357 2011-04-30 10:54:05 MJD has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1358 2011-04-30 10:54:06 <sacarlson> sipa: that I guess would be the p2p escrow I'm I striving for
1359 2011-04-30 10:54:40 jargon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1360 2011-04-30 10:55:03 <sacarlson> sipa: totaly eliminate the stock markets, bond markets, contract markets with p2p chains
1361 2011-04-30 10:55:10 <sipa> except there is no escrow
1362 2011-04-30 10:55:18 <sacarlson> sipa: I'm working on it
1363 2011-04-30 10:55:20 <genjix> does the <sig> in scriptSig (in CTxIn) is a signature of the scriptPubKey? so am i correct in thinking that you cannot use different scriptPubKey on the CTxOut?
1364 2011-04-30 10:55:25 <genjix> they all have to be the same, right?
1365 2011-04-30 10:55:41 <genjix> otherwise the <sig> in the CTxIn would be invalidated.
1366 2011-04-30 10:56:14 <sipa> the signature in the scriptSig must match the public key given in scriptPubKey of the txout being spent
1367 2011-04-30 10:56:23 Fnar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1368 2011-04-30 10:57:08 <genjix> but all the CTxIn have a different scriptSig because they contain the <pubKey> matching the COutPoint, right?
1369 2011-04-30 10:57:45 <sipa> those pubkeys can be equal, if they come from the same address
1370 2011-04-30 10:58:00 <sipa> but the main point is that the message being signed is different
1371 2011-04-30 10:58:08 <sipa> i think
1372 2011-04-30 10:58:10 <genjix> so CTxIn have scriptSig of <sig> (signature for the script used in CTxOut which remains unchanging across all inputs) and <pubKey> (public key used for signature of previous tx)
1373 2011-04-30 10:58:45 <genjix> but then because the signature for CTxOut is the same for all inputs, that means you cannot use a different script for the outputs.
1374 2011-04-30 10:58:52 <sipa> pubkey is the pubkey corresponding to the address the prevout was sent to
1375 2011-04-30 10:59:10 <genjix> only one scriptPubKey for all outputs
1376 2011-04-30 10:59:11 <sipa> sig is the signature made using the private key corresponding to that pubkey
1377 2011-04-30 10:59:19 <genjix> yep
1378 2011-04-30 10:59:28 <sipa> why would there be only one scriptPubKey for all outputs?
1379 2011-04-30 11:00:02 <genjix> sig is a signing of the output script for this current tx, no?
1380 2011-04-30 11:00:32 MJD has joined
1381 2011-04-30 11:02:21 <sipa> it's a signature with the private key corresponding to the pubkey mathing an address given in the prevout's scriptPubKey, of the current tx
1382 2011-04-30 11:02:52 <sipa> and since each TxIn of a given tx can have a different prevout, those pubkeys can differ
1383 2011-04-30 11:04:21 Fnar has joined
1384 2011-04-30 11:05:12 Guest32370 is now known as sneak
1385 2011-04-30 11:05:17 sneak has quit (Changing host)
1386 2011-04-30 11:05:17 sneak has joined
1387 2011-04-30 11:05:26 FrankyJoe has joined
1388 2011-04-30 11:05:59 <genjix> sipa: i understand.
1389 2011-04-30 11:08:04 taco_the_paco has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1390 2011-04-30 11:08:52 <genjix> sipa: what does signature sign though? isn't it the scriptPubKey for this tx?
1391 2011-04-30 11:11:12 <sipa> ?
1392 2011-04-30 11:11:28 <sipa> it signs the transaction
1393 2011-04-30 11:11:34 MJD has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1394 2011-04-30 11:11:43 <sipa> using the key states by the prevout's scriptPubKey
1395 2011-04-30 11:11:44 <sipa> *stated
1396 2011-04-30 11:13:28 _ape has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1397 2011-04-30 11:14:41 <genjix> oh
1398 2011-04-30 11:14:43 jargon has joined
1399 2011-04-30 11:15:11 <genjix> that makes more sense
1400 2011-04-30 11:17:17 FrankyJoe has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1401 2011-04-30 11:18:39 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1402 2011-04-30 11:20:40 <BlueMatt> aaaaaand...3
1403 2011-04-30 11:20:43 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,mtgox
1404 2011-04-30 11:20:43 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":3,"low":2.3,"vol":61347,"buy":2.8001,"sell":3,"last":3}}
1405 2011-04-30 11:25:41 <molecular> yay!
1406 2011-04-30 11:25:46 <genjix> sick
1407 2011-04-30 11:26:17 <BlueMatt> already up to 3.19
1408 2011-04-30 11:27:00 <molecular> quote from s3052 on 4/28: "However, when looking at the logarithmic chart, we see why we have stopped in the 2.3 â 2.65 $ zone, where there is resistance from the parallel trend channel described in one of the last analysis.
1409 2011-04-30 11:27:00 <molecular> Price behavior around this level is now key for the next days and perhaps weeks. A break above this level may lead to a significant acceleration of the rally"
1410 2011-04-30 11:27:22 <molecular> not saying we should put too much trust in "technical analysis", though
1411 2011-04-30 11:27:24 <Kiba> this is insane
1412 2011-04-30 11:27:41 * molecular agrees
1413 2011-04-30 11:27:59 <BlueMatt> yep
1414 2011-04-30 11:28:06 <Kiba> we been in a two month slump..now
1415 2011-04-30 11:28:06 <molecular> there's going to be bubble talk ;)
1416 2011-04-30 11:28:08 <BlueMatt> heres hoping Art sells like crazy to slow this down
1417 2011-04-30 11:28:17 <Kiba> we get this insane
1418 2011-04-30 11:28:18 <Kiba> rally
1419 2011-04-30 11:28:36 <genjix> molecular: i wouldn't really trust those analysises. they are like cold reading.
1420 2011-04-30 11:28:38 <Kiba> the c
1421 2011-04-30 11:28:39 <Kiba> hart
1422 2011-04-30 11:28:41 <sipa> khalahan: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/6e223c405988a1002eeeee69db88a1128a38b0a3
1423 2011-04-30 11:28:45 <Kiba> is starting to look like a J-curve?
1424 2011-04-30 11:29:59 <Kiba> it might not be a bubble if we're just doing the J-curve
1425 2011-04-30 11:30:04 <Kiba> but gosh, it's crazy
1426 2011-04-30 11:30:42 <molecular> well, it doesn't reflect growth of the economy, does it?
1427 2011-04-30 11:30:57 <Kiba> we are growing and getti
1428 2011-04-30 11:30:57 <Kiba> new
1429 2011-04-30 11:31:01 <Kiba> people constantly
1430 2011-04-30 11:31:13 <Kiba> but the bitcoin price seems to have its own mind
1431 2011-04-30 11:31:20 <sacarlson> Kiba: and I would think volitile currency is not something the market looks for to use
1432 2011-04-30 11:31:58 <sacarlson> but I guess it's to be expected at this point
1433 2011-04-30 11:35:20 <molecular> the network size seems to have doubled in the last 4 months (4k -> 8k), mtgox volume very healthy, economy growing. to me, everything looks good ;)
1434 2011-04-30 11:35:42 <BlueMatt> except for the remaining lack of merchants
1435 2011-04-30 11:36:10 justmoon has joined
1436 2011-04-30 11:36:31 <Kiba> merchants are growing
1437 2011-04-30 11:36:33 <molecular> yes,... the problem for merchants is setting a bitcoin price to their goods. they have to automate this. quite a hurdle
1438 2011-04-30 11:36:39 <Kiba> just recently, somebody is selling bitcoin t-shirts
1439 2011-04-30 11:36:46 <molecular> yeah, saw that.
1440 2011-04-30 11:36:59 <BlueMatt> I still cant buy much non-bitcoin-related stuff with bitcoin
1441 2011-04-30 11:36:59 <Kiba> the fundamental is good, yup.
1442 2011-04-30 11:37:03 <molecular> I'd rather like to see an established shirt dealer use bitcoin, though
1443 2011-04-30 11:37:28 <BlueMatt> Id like to see any established merchants use bitcoin
1444 2011-04-30 11:38:58 <Kiba> providing what bitcoiners want is improtant
1445 2011-04-30 11:39:15 <Kiba> there's no sense for established merchant to use it if nobody buy anything
1446 2011-04-30 11:40:27 <warpi> i think it would be very good publicity if a established merchant would start to accept btc
1447 2011-04-30 11:40:40 <warpi> or a semi-established... free marketing
1448 2011-04-30 11:41:04 <warpi> the more famous bitcoin is, the more the company will earn on associate
1449 2011-04-30 11:41:22 <BlueMatt> right now I see alot of people who think bitcoin is cool and buying bitcoin, but unless I can go on to buy actual goods with my bitcoin, I just get up and leave
1450 2011-04-30 11:41:50 <warpi> BlueMatt, but,, btc is too small so far
1451 2011-04-30 11:42:15 <warpi> there have to be more people that have invested in it and trust it before merchants is willing to take the risk
1452 2011-04-30 11:42:46 <BlueMatt> what risk? If Im a merchant I can set up my backend to take bitcoin and sell them into usd the second I get them
1453 2011-04-30 11:42:58 <BlueMatt> Its just difficult to do so currently
1454 2011-04-30 11:42:58 <Kiba> I brought hosting and domain names with bitcoin...barely brought anything else at all
1455 2011-04-30 11:43:29 <molecular> Kiba: I would by some nerdy t-shirt from, say, 3dsupply.de with btc. I'm going to talk to them. tapping a community of (roughly 10.000?) nerds could be a business opportunity for them.
1456 2011-04-30 11:43:29 Incitatus has joined
1457 2011-04-30 11:43:52 <warpi> BlueMatt, true... i mean keep the btc :)
1458 2011-04-30 11:44:20 <BlueMatt> well I see no reasons merchants will do that for a _long, long_ time
1459 2011-04-30 11:44:24 <molecular> BlueMatt, true about the autmated selling... but it's not as easy for them as it might be for us, right?
1460 2011-04-30 11:44:28 <warpi> we just have to make sure that the btc network (infrastructure) is stabile, and the market will grow by time
1461 2011-04-30 11:45:25 <BlueMatt> warpi: the problem I have with that is when the market is just speculators, the bubble just grows and grows
1462 2011-04-30 11:45:49 <BlueMatt> when merchants start to come in and people start to sell for actual reasons than just speculation it causes it to pop
1463 2011-04-30 11:46:03 <warpi> BlueMatt, true,, but there will be some booms and busts for sure.. the speculators will get tired eventually
1464 2011-04-30 11:46:09 <warpi> have to go.. cya
1465 2011-04-30 11:49:09 <molecular> is the volume on mtgox in USD or BTC?
1466 2011-04-30 11:49:38 <BlueMatt> typically btc
1467 2011-04-30 11:50:01 <topi`> we need more exchange sites than mtgox and then we need to collect info from these sites about the current exchange rate of BTC against different currencies
1468 2011-04-30 11:50:12 <topi`> when that is automated, then the merchants can sell their wares at BTC spot price
1469 2011-04-30 11:50:49 <genjix> 'using the key stated by the prevout's scriptPubKey' <- there is no public key in prevOut scriptPubKey
1470 2011-04-30 11:51:26 <genjix> topi`: my software is free if you want to setup an euro exchange
1471 2011-04-30 11:51:30 <genjix> i encourage it.
1472 2011-04-30 11:55:51 <topi`> ok
1473 2011-04-30 11:56:49 sprash has joined
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1476 2011-04-30 12:01:08 Incitatus has joined
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1478 2011-04-30 12:05:06 <topi`> genjix: you mean this intersange thing?
1479 2011-04-30 12:05:21 <genjix> topi`: yes
1480 2011-04-30 12:09:24 <topi`> I need to have a look at that
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1485 2011-04-30 12:11:03 <genjix> sipa: 'using the key stated by the prevout's scriptPubKey' <- there is no public key in prevOut scriptPubKey
1486 2011-04-30 12:11:14 <sipa> no, but there is an address
1487 2011-04-30 12:11:34 <genjix> sipa: also if you're setting all the txin scripts to be empty then signing the tx, that signature will be the same for all txin, no?
1488 2011-04-30 12:11:41 DukeOfURL has joined
1489 2011-04-30 12:11:44 <genjix> right
1490 2011-04-30 12:12:26 <sipa> since the signatures are in the txin, how can there be a signature if the txin scripts are empty?
1491 2011-04-30 12:12:31 <topi`> http://de1.eu.apcdn.com/full/40107.jpg
1492 2011-04-30 12:12:32 <topi`> lol
1493 2011-04-30 12:12:46 <genjix> sipa: because that's how the signing algorithm works afaik
1494 2011-04-30 12:12:53 <sipa> no
1495 2011-04-30 12:12:58 <genjix> it makes a deep copy of the tx, sets the txin to empty
1496 2011-04-30 12:13:08 <sipa> ah, yes
1497 2011-04-30 12:13:10 dissipate has joined
1498 2011-04-30 12:13:13 <sipa> of course
1499 2011-04-30 12:13:21 <genjix> does some other stuff, then hashes/signs it.
1500 2011-04-30 12:13:23 <sipa> but it's possible to really have an empty txin too
1501 2011-04-30 12:13:36 <sipa> in which case there simply is no signature
1502 2011-04-30 12:14:10 <sipa> but the pubkey can still differ, even though the data being signed is identical amongst several txins
1503 2011-04-30 12:14:22 <genjix> ok but you take the tx (CTransaction), set the input scripts to empty, hash it, sign it then add that signature to all the <sig> of each CTxIn::scriptSig?
1504 2011-04-30 12:14:33 <genjix> yep ofc
1505 2011-04-30 12:14:48 <genjix> ahhh
1506 2011-04-30 12:15:09 sprash has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1507 2011-04-30 12:19:48 <sipa> scriptSig + scriptPubKey must together form a script returning true for that transaction
1508 2011-04-30 12:20:03 <sipa> scriptSig sets some input values, scriptPubKey validates those
1509 2011-04-30 12:21:15 mologie has joined
1510 2011-04-30 12:27:53 <genjix> but there are multiple scriptPubKey because each CTxOut has scriptPubKey and there multiple CTxOut in CTransaction
1511 2011-04-30 12:30:58 <sipa> yes
1512 2011-04-30 12:31:18 <sipa> it's the scriptPubKey of the prevout concatenated with the txin's scriptSIg
1513 2011-04-30 12:32:46 <genjix> thanks
1514 2011-04-30 12:32:59 <genjix> sorry for being dense and eating up your time :)
1515 2011-04-30 12:33:46 FellowTraveler has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1516 2011-04-30 12:35:03 DuoSRX has quit ()
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1519 2011-04-30 12:48:06 _ape has joined
1520 2011-04-30 12:48:29 altamic has joined
1521 2011-04-30 12:49:50 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 1392000
1522 2011-04-30 12:49:51 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1392000 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 12.7665852475 BTC per day and 0.531941051978 BTC per hour.
1523 2011-04-30 12:51:51 tabsa has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1524 2011-04-30 12:54:02 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1525 2011-04-30 12:54:35 WakiMiko has joined
1526 2011-04-30 12:56:46 <_ape> ;;bc,gen 250000
1527 2011-04-30 12:56:47 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 250000 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 2.29284936197 BTC per day and 0.0955353900823 BTC per hour.
1528 2011-04-30 12:57:33 <tcoppi> w 2
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1530 2011-04-30 12:58:16 Stellar has joined
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1537 2011-04-30 13:09:25 <genjix> topi`: do you have a nl account?
1538 2011-04-30 13:10:13 <topi`> genjix: a nl bank? yes
1539 2011-04-30 13:11:40 <ForceDestroyer> I upgraded to ubuntu 11.4, now the Bitcoin client is always invisible. Any known workaround/explanation?
1540 2011-04-30 13:12:05 <BlueMatt> ForceDestroyer: known but, workaround: no, explanation: no, why it happens: I dont know
1541 2011-04-30 13:12:44 <genjix> topi`: you will need it for an exchange
1542 2011-04-30 13:12:47 <ForceDestroyer> Uhm. Given that the issue exists for almost a month, is someone working on it?
1543 2011-04-30 13:13:00 Zarutian has joined
1544 2011-04-30 13:13:12 <ForceDestroyer> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5443.0 <--- first appeared April 5th
1545 2011-04-30 13:13:17 <JFK911> maybe it's ubuntu's fault
1546 2011-04-30 13:13:20 <JFK911> they can't get anything else right
1547 2011-04-30 13:13:39 <ForceDestroyer> You mean gnome
1548 2011-04-30 13:13:42 <JFK911> it's as if they are trying to destroy linux and foss by releasing garbage
1549 2011-04-30 13:13:50 <ForceDestroyer> OP runs OpenSuse
1550 2011-04-30 13:13:54 <JFK911> quality assurance? foreign concepts to these clowns
1551 2011-04-30 13:14:32 <BlueMatt> have you tried compiling wx+btc yourself?
1552 2011-04-30 13:15:03 <BlueMatt> i have a feeling its a wx linking to gtk problem
1553 2011-04-30 13:15:09 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1554 2011-04-30 13:15:11 <ForceDestroyer> No, actually I'm a Linux noob and I'd be happy if I could configure my PC so that both ethernet and bluetooth work at the same time lol
1555 2011-04-30 13:15:18 <JFK911> try fedora
1556 2011-04-30 13:15:28 <ForceDestroyer> What is wx anyways?
1557 2011-04-30 13:15:32 <BlueMatt> JFK911: bitcoin release doesnt work on fedora iirc
1558 2011-04-30 13:15:39 <BlueMatt> similar problems but hard fail
1559 2011-04-30 13:15:41 <JFK911> i used 0.19 iirc
1560 2011-04-30 13:15:58 <JFK911> not current version, but what was current around january
1561 2011-04-30 13:16:13 <JFK911> i think i got binary though
1562 2011-04-30 13:17:00 <JFK911> gui worked, but i launch things from terminals since linux window managers are all unusable
1563 2011-04-30 13:17:26 <ForceDestroyer> Well, uhm, you guys are aware that you can't tell that to a normal user right? o.o
1564 2011-04-30 13:18:05 <ForceDestroyer> "So, in case your window manager sucks, just use Bitcoin from the terminal. Not so different from BTX banking, is it?"
1565 2011-04-30 13:18:08 <JFK911> i don't know what else to tell a normal user: "im having ubuntu problems" "well who told you to use that? hit him with a pipe."
1566 2011-04-30 13:18:33 <ForceDestroyer> Gnome problems. The issue also appeared in OpenSuse, see the thread I linked
1567 2011-04-30 13:19:29 <ForceDestroyer> What should I use? I won't do fedora if Bitcoin isn't supported for that OS... o.o
1568 2011-04-30 13:20:16 <ForceDestroyer> But I see that ubuntu is getting on my nerves. I can have it display "bluetooth enabled" and "bluetooth turned off" on the same screen, so I suppose it's not a good OS after all lol
1569 2011-04-30 13:20:24 <JFK911> well there's no gnome3 in fedora\
1570 2011-04-30 13:20:40 <JFK911> honestly, fedora 15 will be out sometime this year, and upgrading to that is going to be a hassle too
1571 2011-04-30 13:20:54 <JFK911> but redhat's server stuff is a bit stale
1572 2011-04-30 13:20:59 <JFK911> so thats worthless for desktop
1573 2011-04-30 13:21:50 <Kiba> yesterday
1574 2011-04-30 13:21:54 redengin has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1575 2011-04-30 13:21:57 <Kiba> is like the craziest day ever
1576 2011-04-30 13:22:00 <ForceDestroyer> *sigh* I'd pay loads for an OS that's good enough to be the obvious choise, open source or not. -_-
1577 2011-04-30 13:22:30 <ForceDestroyer> Have to shutdown that computer now anyways because something is hissing whenever bluetooth is off, and I can't turn it on. Arrghh
1578 2011-04-30 13:23:15 * ForceDestroyer wanders off to eat something
1579 2011-04-30 13:24:40 <JFK911> windows works ok
1580 2011-04-30 13:25:02 KuT-Sickness has joined
1581 2011-04-30 13:25:13 <JFK911> do other things linked against wx work in this ubuntu/gnome?
1582 2011-04-30 13:25:46 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1585 2011-04-30 13:35:36 <sacarlson> JFK911: I use spesmilo as a user interface in ubuntu 10.04 with bitcoind
1586 2011-04-30 13:36:24 <sacarlson> JFK911: I couldn't find the wx libs in ubuntu 10.04 to run the gui version
1587 2011-04-30 13:38:47 redengin has joined
1588 2011-04-30 13:39:34 <BlueMatt> there are no wx 2.9 libs packaged for pretty much any distro
1589 2011-04-30 13:39:37 <BlueMatt> as its still beta
1590 2011-04-30 13:39:41 <BlueMatt> so its statically linked in bitcoin
1591 2011-04-30 13:41:53 <BlueMatt> hence the problems on non-ubuntu distros
1592 2011-04-30 13:42:35 zyb_ has joined
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1594 2011-04-30 13:47:03 <wumpus> yes I remember I had to compile wx manually before I could compile bitcoin from git. What wx 2.9 features does bitcoin need so badly?
1595 2011-04-30 13:47:15 <BlueMatt> unicode support
1596 2011-04-30 13:47:25 <BlueMatt> really it could be backported, only some translations would probably break
1597 2011-04-30 13:48:04 <wumpus> ah, right, unicode is kind of important, didn't know that was so recent in wx
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1599 2011-04-30 13:51:24 <luke-jr> wumpus: it isn't really
1600 2011-04-30 13:51:36 <luke-jr> unless it's a Windows-specific or Mac-specific issue
1601 2011-04-30 13:51:42 <luke-jr> wxGTK 2.6 supports Unicode
1602 2011-04-30 13:53:13 <luke-jr> according to the wxWidgets homepage, 2.9 removes ASCII support, but it mentions nothing about adding Unicode for any platform
1603 2011-04-30 13:53:36 <wumpus> well as long as internationalization is still possible (we don't want to piss of the russians) it'd be nice to backport to a more supported version
1604 2011-04-30 13:53:54 <luke-jr> wumpus: or just use Spesmilo ;)
1605 2011-04-30 13:54:52 <wumpus> QT4 -- that's even better, didn't know that project yet
1606 2011-04-30 13:54:58 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: so then what was the reason for wx2.9?
1607 2011-04-30 13:55:45 <wumpus> luke-jr: how mature is that GUI?
1608 2011-04-30 13:56:17 <genjix> ;;bc,mtgox
1609 2011-04-30 13:56:18 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":3.2,"low":2.3,"vol":66822,"buy":3.01,"sell":3.132,"last":3.1209}}
1610 2011-04-30 13:56:58 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 298000
1611 2011-04-30 13:56:59 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 298000 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 2.73307643947 BTC per day and 0.113878184978 BTC per hour.
1612 2011-04-30 13:57:05 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: nfc
1613 2011-04-30 13:57:13 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: there is no reason for wx anything
1614 2011-04-30 13:57:26 <luke-jr> wumpus: it works. if you miss a feature, patches welcome
1615 2011-04-30 13:58:14 <wumpus> well it's not like the native client has a lot of features, so I guess it should be able to match those :) (except "generate coins", which should go anyway)
1616 2011-04-30 13:58:48 <luke-jr> wumpus: Qt is native anywhere
1617 2011-04-30 14:01:37 <wumpus> indeed, Qt is a much better choice
1618 2011-04-30 14:03:09 <wumpus> the reason to choose wx instead of Qt used to be that Qt for windows was not open source
1619 2011-04-30 14:03:16 <wumpus> but that's a long time ago
1620 2011-04-30 14:03:55 Kiba has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1621 2011-04-30 14:04:15 <luke-jr> looong time
1622 2011-04-30 14:04:37 <wumpus> thinking of it, bitcoin isn't that old
1623 2011-04-30 14:05:17 <BlueMatt> Im sure its just because satoshi knew a bit about wx and not about qt, hence he used wx
1624 2011-04-30 14:05:40 <wumpus> yeah
1625 2011-04-30 14:06:43 <wumpus> so the recommended way to use bitcoin under linux should probably be changed to involve Spesmilo
1626 2011-04-30 14:07:05 <luke-jr> wumpus: I'd like to get more testing first
1627 2011-04-30 14:07:13 <luke-jr> and packages for the major distros
1628 2011-04-30 14:07:27 <BlueMatt> whats so bad about building wx?
1629 2011-04-30 14:08:02 <luke-jr> it's ugly and huge
1630 2011-04-30 14:08:03 <wumpus> it's an unneccesary dependency, most distros these days ship with qt4/pyside
1631 2011-04-30 14:08:36 <BlueMatt> so? how many programs on linux are ugly and huge...almost most of them
1632 2011-04-30 14:08:49 <wumpus> huh?
1633 2011-04-30 14:08:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the only one I use is Wireshark
1634 2011-04-30 14:09:18 <luke-jr> ugly and huge goes against the *nix philosophy
1635 2011-04-30 14:09:29 <BlueMatt> IMHO using a scripting language to run a program is ugly and huge
1636 2011-04-30 14:09:53 <wumpus> why? most programs use scripting in one form or another these days
1637 2011-04-30 14:09:56 <BlueMatt> not that I use the bitcoin ui anyway
1638 2011-04-30 14:10:08 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'd much prefer a native Qt UI myself
1639 2011-04-30 14:10:09 lol-cat has quit (Quit: Ich benutze das -= [ Weisseradler-Script ] =-. Das kannst du dir unter -= [ http://www.weisseradler.de ] =- runterladen. (c) b)
1640 2011-04-30 14:10:14 <luke-jr> but MagicalTux is slow ;p
1641 2011-04-30 14:10:16 <BlueMatt> wumpus: because its slower, takes more mem, etc
1642 2011-04-30 14:10:47 <EvanR> ive been buying motherboards with no case. in order to turn the bitch on i used this random switch i have from another case, but this wont fly if i need to operate more than one board at a time. where do i get switches for the board?
1643 2011-04-30 14:10:49 <wumpus> not really, using scripting/VM you can lower memory usage, it's why things like pcode were developed back in the old days
1644 2011-04-30 14:11:01 <wumpus> binary executable code is much more verbose than compact bytecode
1645 2011-04-30 14:11:24 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: sorry for being busy
1646 2011-04-30 14:11:42 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: ^^
1647 2011-04-30 14:12:02 <BlueMatt> wumpus: loading python vm + stuff to run is always going to be bigger than a properly written native program (not that bitcoin is proper)
1648 2011-04-30 14:12:04 <wumpus> and slower is moot as long as you're not doing computations
1649 2011-04-30 14:12:10 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: if you had released sooner, I'd be coding for your UI instead of Spesmilo probably
1650 2011-04-30 14:12:17 <wumpus> starting python takes a few ms.. it's not java
1651 2011-04-30 14:12:18 <MagicalTux> :D
1652 2011-04-30 14:12:32 <BlueMatt> wumpus: oh I disagree, I dont care how little stuff Im doing, I still want it to be that extra bit more responsive
1653 2011-04-30 14:12:34 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: slower is also moot when the JSON-RPC protocol forces a ton of inefficiency on any UI
1654 2011-04-30 14:12:36 <wumpus> have you ever worked with python at all?
1655 2011-04-30 14:12:48 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: I should soon hire some staff for the mtgox email support, will free a few hours per day of my time
1656 2011-04-30 14:12:51 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: never said bitcoin is proper
1657 2011-04-30 14:13:07 <wumpus> even games rely mostly on scripting these days
1658 2011-04-30 14:13:16 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: be sure to hire someone in bitcoins :D
1659 2011-04-30 14:13:26 <wumpus> WoW with lua, Eve Online with Python, etc..
1660 2011-04-30 14:13:28 <EvanR> scripting has no definite meaning
1661 2011-04-30 14:13:49 <EvanR> unfortunately
1662 2011-04-30 14:13:50 <BlueMatt> wumpus: very different world, there the performance is all dependant on graphics and responsiveness is defined by graphics not by actual cpu
1663 2011-04-30 14:13:51 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: nah, I'll hire some japanese guy who can speak english perfectly, and I'll put him under a contract that says that if he gets any private info out by error he has to do a ritual suicide
1664 2011-04-30 14:14:02 <wumpus> BlueMatt: games are the ultimate GUI example
1665 2011-04-30 14:14:29 <BlueMatt> wumpus: no, they are designed to be the only app running, not on a regular desktop environment
1666 2011-04-30 14:14:30 <wumpus> if game GUis can be fast with scripting, anything that you do on desktop is moot in comparison
1667 2011-04-30 14:14:37 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: â¦
1668 2011-04-30 14:14:40 <MagicalTux> :p
1669 2011-04-30 14:14:50 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: why not just say seppuku?
1670 2011-04-30 14:15:06 <wumpus> then again, good luck hacking your bitcoin GUI in assembler
1671 2011-04-30 14:15:07 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: because I wasn't sure of the appropriate "english" writing anymore
1672 2011-04-30 14:15:15 <luke-jr> XD
1673 2011-04-30 14:15:18 <wumpus> C just doesn't compare to good hand-optimizd assembly
1674 2011-04-30 14:15:33 <EvanR> ._.
1675 2011-04-30 14:15:43 <luke-jr> wumpus: I want to run Bitcoin on my PowerPC you insensitive clod!
1676 2011-04-30 14:15:44 <BlueMatt> wumpus: never said it was easier to code (or a good client) but I prefer c/c++ over python by a ton
1677 2011-04-30 14:15:46 <MagicalTux> and you wouldn't like me writing åè
¹
1678 2011-04-30 14:15:54 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: no, I don't know kanji.
1679 2011-04-30 14:15:55 <wumpus> luke-jr: powerPC has an assembly language too :)
1680 2011-04-30 14:15:56 <BlueMatt> especially for financial software
1681 2011-04-30 14:16:09 <luke-jr> wumpus: but I want to run the same version that I have on my MIPS workstation
1682 2011-04-30 14:16:15 <wumpus> just write it for every architecture
1683 2011-04-30 14:16:19 <wumpus> it will be fast!!!
1684 2011-04-30 14:16:22 <wumpus> see you in 1000 years :P
1685 2011-04-30 14:16:57 <BlueMatt> I have to go anyway, I still highly prefer a native client over any kind of python script (especially if it has to run two applications like spesmilo which just get needlessly complicated)
1686 2011-04-30 14:17:16 <MagicalTux> ok
1687 2011-04-30 14:17:18 <wumpus> BlueMatt: yes, I can certainly see that C++ is better in some occasions, but Python is everything but huge and ugly
1688 2011-04-30 14:17:23 * MagicalTux puts back QBitcoin in the priority queue
1689 2011-04-30 14:17:29 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1690 2011-04-30 14:17:44 <MagicalTux> (anyway I already use parts of QBitcoin for my new implementation of mtgox)
1691 2011-04-30 14:18:12 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: any ideas on Wallet protocol? kept up with it?
1692 2011-04-30 14:18:16 <noagendamarket> any hints on when you will flip the switch to the new mt gox ?
1693 2011-04-30 14:21:06 <wumpus> is there a version of QBitcoin online?
1694 2011-04-30 14:21:14 <wumpus> Please note: this version is planned for mid-january 2011 :)
1695 2011-04-30 14:21:51 <EvanR> wumpus: you see c++ as being better in SOME situation? is there something wrong with you?
1696 2011-04-30 14:22:09 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: I already got a wallet protocol that includes the fact that the "wallet" has no idea of what transactions are going out
1697 2011-04-30 14:22:17 <wumpus> EvanR: what do you mean?
1698 2011-04-30 14:22:18 <EvanR> also people dont want to hear this but python is just php with different syntax
1699 2011-04-30 14:22:37 <EvanR> as far as language goes
1700 2011-04-30 14:23:00 <wumpus> let's not do a language war
1701 2011-04-30 14:23:07 <wumpus> PHP is useful too
1702 2011-04-30 14:23:10 <EvanR> ._.
1703 2011-04-30 14:23:15 <EvanR> youre right, lets not
1704 2011-04-30 14:23:21 <MagicalTux> EvanR: what about node.js then? :D
1705 2011-04-30 14:23:29 <MagicalTux> :D
1706 2011-04-30 14:23:40 <EvanR> node.js is god awful. they managed to make imperative programming even more convoluted
1707 2011-04-30 14:23:50 * MagicalTux feeds the trolls
1708 2011-04-30 14:23:57 <wumpus> I really only care about one thing in a language: can I write code fast?
1709 2011-04-30 14:24:13 <EvanR> since js implementations have no real concurrency support, youre forced to write 'blocking' side effects as a future scheduled event
1710 2011-04-30 14:24:25 <wumpus> high level languages such as Python, JS, Ruby, PHP allow me to do that
1711 2011-04-30 14:24:31 <EvanR> wumpus: well, we care about writing code that works and works in 3 months
1712 2011-04-30 14:24:52 <wumpus> so what's your point? the other languages have existed for years too
1713 2011-04-30 14:24:59 <EvanR> what?
1714 2011-04-30 14:25:01 <wumpus> and will probably exist for a long time to come
1715 2011-04-30 14:25:42 <wumpus> my developer time is the thing that is valuable, I don't want to worry about things like memory management at all unless it's specifically needed
1716 2011-04-30 14:25:55 <ForceDestroyer> It looks like my Bitcoin client is down now for an indefinite amount of time, since I cannot see the GUI and have no safe fallback computer with a different OS than ubuntu. Any ideas on when this will be resolved or explained?
1717 2011-04-30 14:26:22 <EvanR> manual memory management is like hitting a piece of wood with a bone to eventually accomplish some working application
1718 2011-04-30 14:26:48 <wumpus> exactly
1719 2011-04-30 14:26:50 <EvanR> so are for loops and if statements
1720 2011-04-30 14:27:17 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: you playing with testnet?
1721 2011-04-30 14:27:22 <ForceDestroyer> no
1722 2011-04-30 14:27:30 <wumpus> yes, loops and if statements should go away too
1723 2011-04-30 14:27:34 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: then the ppa should work
1724 2011-04-30 14:27:41 <wumpus> loops can be replaced with map/reduce
1725 2011-04-30 14:27:42 <ForceDestroyer> "the ppa"?
1726 2011-04-30 14:27:46 <wumpus> if with queries/filtering :)
1727 2011-04-30 14:27:54 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: ubuntu ppa for bitcoin
1728 2011-04-30 14:27:58 <EvanR> i hate the 'new' jargon map/reduce
1729 2011-04-30 14:28:04 * EvanR shakes fist at google
1730 2011-04-30 14:28:06 <wumpus> it's the new world
1731 2011-04-30 14:28:11 <wumpus> the parallel one
1732 2011-04-30 14:28:19 <EvanR> map and folds have existed for 4 decades
1733 2011-04-30 14:28:33 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: you want the link, you just add the repository and install it
1734 2011-04-30 14:28:39 <wumpus> yeah nothing in IT is really new
1735 2011-04-30 14:28:55 <wumpus> most of the ideas we use are from the 60's
1736 2011-04-30 14:29:18 <wumpus> doesn't mean they were as practical or useful back then as they are now
1737 2011-04-30 14:29:30 <EvanR> they were
1738 2011-04-30 14:29:54 <wumpus> some ideas go into the freezer for a long time just to pop up when they become useful with some new paradigm
1739 2011-04-30 14:29:58 <EvanR> everyone hated unix when it came out because it wasnt as easy to debug as lisp
1740 2011-04-30 14:30:06 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: this the first one I tried that worked on main net just not on testnet https://launchpad.net/~stretch/+archive/bitcoin
1741 2011-04-30 14:30:32 <wumpus> ForceDestroyer: you could try to use the other GUI mentioned ( https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Spesmilo )
1742 2011-04-30 14:30:36 <EvanR> lisp and all the 'scripting' languages have a huge problem, no type safety
1743 2011-04-30 14:30:54 <wumpus> I see that as a feature
1744 2011-04-30 14:31:01 <EvanR> its the lack of a feature
1745 2011-04-30 14:31:03 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: yes spesmilo is cool that's what I use now
1746 2011-04-30 14:31:09 <wumpus> yeah whatever :)
1747 2011-04-30 14:31:37 <EvanR> when the code crashes in region X because of a nonsensical pieces of code in region B, you are back to sticks and stones to figure it out
1748 2011-04-30 14:32:01 <wumpus> right, as we all know crashes can never happen with a statically typed language
1749 2011-04-30 14:32:03 <EvanR> 'lol something went wrong, just put NULL or nil or something in that memory location'
1750 2011-04-30 14:32:32 <EvanR> wumpus: at least crash when the error occurs rather than putting a nothing value there and hoping something eventually crashes on it
1751 2011-04-30 14:33:02 <EvanR> and no haskell doesnt crash in those cases because they are impossible
1752 2011-04-30 14:33:11 <wumpus> use robust error handling and testing is not dependent on the language
1753 2011-04-30 14:33:12 flok has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1754 2011-04-30 14:33:30 <EvanR> no need for error handling OR testing if you use an expressive type system checkable at compile time
1755 2011-04-30 14:33:45 <EvanR> which actually python and dynamic systems could benefit from without much heartache
1756 2011-04-30 14:33:55 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1757 2011-04-30 14:34:03 <wumpus> but no current mainstream language really does that well
1758 2011-04-30 14:34:11 <EvanR> and?
1759 2011-04-30 14:34:18 <wumpus> so it's a theoretical point
1760 2011-04-30 14:34:20 <EvanR> thats my point
1761 2011-04-30 14:34:43 <EvanR> if it were theoretical, that means im wrong or meaningless?
1762 2011-04-30 14:34:53 prax has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1763 2011-04-30 14:34:55 <EvanR> anyway haskell exists, not theoretical
1764 2011-04-30 14:35:24 <wumpus> no, it doesn't make you wrong, but I don't think the type system of C++ is really useful
1765 2011-04-30 14:35:30 <EvanR> so lack of type safety is not a feature, its just a deficiency ;)
1766 2011-04-30 14:35:44 <EvanR> i started by opinine about how bad c++ is
1767 2011-04-30 14:35:45 <wumpus> haskell, yes
1768 2011-04-30 14:35:48 <EvanR> stop agreeing with me
1769 2011-04-30 14:35:55 <wumpus> I think haskell is cool
1770 2011-04-30 14:35:57 Cusipzzz has joined
1771 2011-04-30 14:36:36 <gat3way> for anyone that has bitcoin issues after update
1772 2011-04-30 14:36:36 <wumpus> but it's developer ecosystem is still kind of small :/
1773 2011-04-30 14:36:40 <gat3way> just wait
1774 2011-04-30 14:36:48 <wumpus> same with erlang
1775 2011-04-30 14:36:49 <EvanR> not really
1776 2011-04-30 14:37:07 <EvanR> in business maybe
1777 2011-04-30 14:37:08 <gat3way> for some reason the GUI displays some time after launch
1778 2011-04-30 14:37:15 <EvanR> but business oriented books came ou
1779 2011-04-30 14:37:21 <wumpus> if you write a bitcoin client in haskell I'm sure you'd have almost no other committers
1780 2011-04-30 14:37:27 <EvanR> so?
1781 2011-04-30 14:37:43 <wumpus> which means you can't leverage open source as much
1782 2011-04-30 14:37:44 <EvanR> well, bitcoin is pretty popular in the haskell community
1783 2011-04-30 14:38:01 <EvanR> they like new and advanced technology
1784 2011-04-30 14:38:06 <EvanR> theoretical stuff
1785 2011-04-30 14:38:11 <ForceDestroyer> I don't want to seem paranoid, but do experts exist that look through some of these modded clients or the identities of the people making them? Downloading a modified client is equivalent to throwing a bank account login with all TANs into some software. :o
1786 2011-04-30 14:38:14 <wumpus> ok, that's cool
1787 2011-04-30 14:38:55 <wumpus> ForceDestroyer: what makes you trust the official client :)
1788 2011-04-30 14:39:13 <EvanR> its official
1789 2011-04-30 14:39:14 <EvanR> duh
1790 2011-04-30 14:39:19 <wumpus> hehe
1791 2011-04-30 14:39:22 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: that's what I was thinking about in the windows version, in this case I had to look at the code I compiled
1792 2011-04-30 14:39:44 <ForceDestroyer> I talked to some devs, hell even randall munroe is on github now, people will react if someone hacks malicious code into there, or might even restore an old block chain position
1793 2011-04-30 14:40:30 <wumpus> as long as the code had some eyeballs (or is really simple ) I think you're ok.. but of course you shouldn't be downloading executables from arbitrary strange russian sites, that's common sense
1794 2011-04-30 14:40:59 <ForceDestroyer> But... the thing is written in C++ (why the hell anyways?) ... a mod by a single developer can surely hide an intended security hole easily
1795 2011-04-30 14:41:17 <wumpus> yeah, you have tot trust the developer in that case
1796 2011-04-30 14:41:22 <wumpus> if you don't, do not use his code
1797 2011-04-30 14:41:37 <wumpus> that's with all software
1798 2011-04-30 14:41:53 <EvanR> ForceDestroyer: yes
1799 2011-04-30 14:42:09 <ForceDestroyer> Have you seen the competitions on writing harmless-looking malicious C++? That language is the perfect anti-example of logical, visible security -_-
1800 2011-04-30 14:42:30 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: the c++ code is safe there are hundreds of us all looking at it, not lickly to sneak into the source but after the compile there's no way to see what is inside
1801 2011-04-30 14:42:35 <davex__> ;;bc,stats
1802 2011-04-30 14:42:37 <gribble> Current Blocks: 121054 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 1921 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 19 hours, 19 minutes, and 21 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 150955.00950698
1803 2011-04-30 14:42:38 <EvanR> c++ has no point
1804 2011-04-30 14:43:02 <wumpus> ForceDestroyer: yeah you have a point.. the c++ code should be stripped to a minimum, things like GUI should be provided as clients
1805 2011-04-30 14:44:05 <ForceDestroyer> So... well... I might have no choice other than downloading a modded client if the official doesn't work. But then, the last main security addition is gone, that is many people working on the source, making it hard to hide evil stuff
1806 2011-04-30 14:44:09 <wumpus> the current "GUI intermingled with server code" approach is far from ideal, then again, this is open source, go ahead :P
1807 2011-04-30 14:44:15 <EvanR> ForceDestroyer: there are alternative client projects
1808 2011-04-30 14:44:16 <EvanR> rewrites
1809 2011-04-30 14:44:21 <EvanR> not mods
1810 2011-04-30 14:44:34 <EvanR> why doesnt the official client work?
1811 2011-04-30 14:44:55 <ForceDestroyer> No idea, the window just won't display ever since I'm on ubuntu 11.4
1812 2011-04-30 14:45:10 <EvanR> i recommend not using ubuntu packages
1813 2011-04-30 14:45:12 <ForceDestroyer> Multiple people appear to have the issue, and nobody can give me any details on when or if this will ever be fixed
1814 2011-04-30 14:45:21 <EvanR> ever
1815 2011-04-30 14:45:24 <wumpus> ForceDestroyer:then use the official client in JSONRPC mode, with the Spesmilo (Python) GUI
1816 2011-04-30 14:45:47 asherkin has joined
1817 2011-04-30 14:46:03 <wumpus> I guess it'll be fixed as soon as someone submits a patch to fix it
1818 2011-04-30 14:46:04 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: you can probly still run the bitcoind cli version it's still functional
1819 2011-04-30 14:46:59 <wumpus> afaik it's currently not clear whether it's a problem in Wx or in Bitcoin itself, I've read the github issue and they did some pretty low level debugging, without a clue
1820 2011-04-30 14:47:50 <wumpus> I'm still running the old ubuntu so I wouldn't know either
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1822 2011-04-30 14:49:23 <ForceDestroyer> wumpus: what's JSONRPC mode? Yea, Spesmilo GUI would be an option, but that means I'm de-facto trusting its single author, since I'm not gonna read the source of that or get to know whether evil python tricks exists or something.
1823 2011-04-30 14:49:30 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1824 2011-04-30 14:49:56 <ForceDestroyer> Or I really use bitcoin in cli mode. No idea about that, but maybe the most simple option *shrugs*
1825 2011-04-30 14:50:15 skyewm has joined
1826 2011-04-30 14:51:24 <sacarlson> ForceDestroyer: like bitcoind ; bitcoind getinfo; bitcoind sendtoaddress rqeuropqeuiroqeurpoqiweur 50; bitcoind listtransactions; that's all you need to know for cli
1827 2011-04-30 14:51:26 <wumpus> ForceDestroyer: JSON-RPC is the remote control protocol used for the bitcoin client
1828 2011-04-30 14:52:09 <wumpus> ForceDestroyer: it's only a GUI so I think the code is very simple to read
1829 2011-04-30 14:52:21 <wumpus> ForceDestroyer: if not, they probably have something to hide :)
1830 2011-04-30 14:52:32 skeledrew has joined
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1832 2011-04-30 14:57:54 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1833 2011-04-30 14:58:03 Somegui123 has joined
1834 2011-04-30 14:58:16 <EvanR> lol its only a gui so the code should be easy to read
1835 2011-04-30 14:59:22 Compgenius has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1836 2011-04-30 15:00:16 <wumpus> EvanR: yeah I mean it's not like hardcore crypto code, it's very predictable and you know what to expect
1837 2011-04-30 15:00:24 redengin has joined
1838 2011-04-30 15:01:06 <EvanR> backend code should be easier because you can be more declarative, guis are not so easily described
1839 2011-04-30 15:01:31 <EvanR> of course in c++ world that might be the exact opposite, more likely both are hard to understand
1840 2011-04-30 15:01:37 <wumpus> true, but I think it's easier to hide a backdoor in conceptually complex code
1841 2011-04-30 15:02:06 <ForceDestroyer> Even though I understand how python gui is easier to security-analyze than C++ crypto... I kind of worry about Bitcoin's future if a user coming with an error ends up in this kind of discussion.
1842 2011-04-30 15:02:25 <EvanR> ForceDestroyer: i blame ubuntu
1843 2011-04-30 15:02:29 <wumpus> "clicking this button causes this event causes this command packet to be sent to JSONRPC" should be pretty straightforward, then again, I might be wrong, I haven't seen the code.
1844 2011-04-30 15:02:32 <EvanR> downloan the client yourself
1845 2011-04-30 15:02:42 <ForceDestroyer> No offense, maybe it's ubuntu's fault or whatever
1846 2011-04-30 15:02:47 <EvanR> wumpus: yeah, gui code doesnt look like that
1847 2011-04-30 15:02:56 <wumpus> yes -- just build wx and bitcoin yourself
1848 2011-04-30 15:03:17 <EvanR> 'heres the function for SHA2' you can restrict yourself to verifying that single function definition
1849 2011-04-30 15:03:30 <EvanR> dont build it yourself
1850 2011-04-30 15:03:32 <Blitzboom> ForceDestroyer: bitcoin has no future
1851 2011-04-30 15:03:33 <Blitzboom> SELL
1852 2011-04-30 15:03:34 <EvanR> just download the damn client
1853 2011-04-30 15:03:45 <ForceDestroyer> lol hi Blitzboom
1854 2011-04-30 15:04:05 <ForceDestroyer> Too bad I dunno how to sell with broken gui ahahahaha
1855 2011-04-30 15:04:18 <EvanR> vendor lock in
1856 2011-04-30 15:04:29 <Blitzboom> hahaha that was satoshiâs great masterplan
1857 2011-04-30 15:04:33 <wumpus> send me your wallet, I'll sell for you :)
1858 2011-04-30 15:04:35 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: then it's just a node, not a wallet?
1859 2011-04-30 15:04:36 <Blitzboom> deflationary spiral into eternity
1860 2011-04-30 15:05:00 <wumpus> a fun zero sum game
1861 2011-04-30 15:05:17 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: you're talking about what I said >100 lines earlier?
1862 2011-04-30 15:05:28 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: probably
1863 2011-04-30 15:05:30 <MagicalTux> :D
1864 2011-04-30 15:05:45 <wumpus> massive multiplayer online financial playing game
1865 2011-04-30 15:05:50 <Blitzboom> ArtForz: when are you going to sell?
1866 2011-04-30 15:06:01 <Blitzboom> :D
1867 2011-04-30 15:06:13 <ArtForz> $20 or so
1868 2011-04-30 15:06:21 <Blitzboom> haha
1869 2011-04-30 15:06:27 <Blitzboom> can you afford to wait that long?
1870 2011-04-30 15:06:32 <ArtForz> sure
1871 2011-04-30 15:06:34 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: the wallet is a separate process that communicates with the client via its stdio streams. It uses a specific protocol which I call the "wallet protocol", and the wallet process only handle keys, and signs stuff when required and if provided with the right passphrase (if encryption is enabled)
1872 2011-04-30 15:06:35 <Blitzboom> nice
1873 2011-04-30 15:07:22 <wumpus> MagicalTux: good idea. The truly paranoid could put this wallet on a separate device
1874 2011-04-30 15:07:44 <ForceDestroyer> I can't fake acting like an average computer user now, but I have that feeling I should. If Bitcoin is to go anywhere, users will appear here who will think expressions like "use cli" or "compile yourself" are jokes. Juuust sayin'.
1875 2011-04-30 15:08:06 <EvanR> i dont see why you would compile it yourself
1876 2011-04-30 15:08:06 plato has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1877 2011-04-30 15:08:11 <ForceDestroyer> But I'll stop complaining and wait for a bit now. Maybe it's really ubuntu fuckup *shrug*
1878 2011-04-30 15:08:12 <EvanR> i dont
1879 2011-04-30 15:08:15 <wumpus> the problem iis that you switched to a really new OS
1880 2011-04-30 15:08:27 <EvanR> a really new ubuntu os
1881 2011-04-30 15:08:30 <ForceDestroyer> Yea, true
1882 2011-04-30 15:08:40 <wumpus> well ubuntu or something else doesn't matter
1883 2011-04-30 15:08:45 <ArtForz> yes, BT was also totally killed by the reference client being CLI-only python...
1884 2011-04-30 15:08:46 <EvanR> even ubuntu cant be so fucked up that you cant just download the damn client
1885 2011-04-30 15:08:47 <wumpus> every new thing has problems
1886 2011-04-30 15:08:48 <MagicalTux> wumpus: in the wallet, private keys are encrypted using (direct) RSA, and decryption can require input of a passphrase. The QBitcoin client also includes an automatic backup service that allows one to save his (encrypted) wallet
1887 2011-04-30 15:09:04 <MagicalTux> if I can I'll add ways to have an encryption device instead of a stored RSA key later
1888 2011-04-30 15:09:06 <EvanR> wumpus: nah
1889 2011-04-30 15:09:18 <EvanR> thats just rationalization to make ubuntu users feel better
1890 2011-04-30 15:09:36 <wumpus> and bitcoin is hardly the killer app for a new OS, at least not yet, do they don't do user testing with that
1891 2011-04-30 15:09:44 <wumpus> also, Wx is not used normally on ubuntu at all
1892 2011-04-30 15:09:44 <ArtForz> ubnuntu just likes to break shit
1893 2011-04-30 15:09:52 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,lukepool]
1894 2011-04-30 15:09:54 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10794684.4706 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 12 hours, 7 minutes, and 15 seconds
1895 2011-04-30 15:10:01 <wumpus> it wouldn't be any different with another distro
1896 2011-04-30 15:10:06 <luke-jr> ;;bc,lukepool
1897 2011-04-30 15:10:06 <gribble> 10794684.4706
1898 2011-04-30 15:10:09 <ArtForz> yes, it would
1899 2011-04-30 15:10:10 <EvanR> keep telling yourself that
1900 2011-04-30 15:10:12 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1901 2011-04-30 15:10:27 <wumpus> unless you use some dinosaur OS, then again, you chose to use something new
1902 2011-04-30 15:10:46 <ArtForz> how many other distros release RELEASE with nonpublic beta ATI drivers?
1903 2011-04-30 15:11:29 TheAncientGoat has joined
1904 2011-04-30 15:11:33 <wumpus> debian stable is obviously more stable, but that's becaue other distribs already tested the stuff in it
1905 2011-04-30 15:11:35 gwelymernan has joined
1906 2011-04-30 15:11:44 <ArtForz> debian unstable is more stable
1907 2011-04-30 15:11:50 <EvanR> debian is shit
1908 2011-04-30 15:11:53 <wumpus> my point still stands
1909 2011-04-30 15:12:07 <ArtForz> because... it actually works?
1910 2011-04-30 15:13:04 <EvanR> id rather not have them messing with my source without my or the developers guidance
1911 2011-04-30 15:13:25 <wumpus> oh no, not a linux distribution fight
1912 2011-04-30 15:13:28 <ArtForz> ubuntus fglrx 10.10 prerelease (which shipped with 10.10) was *fucking broken* while official 10.9 and 10.10 and the debian packages ... work
1913 2011-04-30 15:13:55 <wumpus> this channel seems to be a nerd fighting ground
1914 2011-04-30 15:14:15 <ForceDestroyer> I'm aware all OS are ancient patchworks, except maybe Singularity and that doesn't actually do anything. Still, to get anywhere, it's necessary to run on most of the big ones.
1915 2011-04-30 15:14:26 <EvanR> wumpus: why an 'os' needs to be rigously tested to make sure it still runs binary programs correctly, without or without installing dep libs i do not know
1916 2011-04-30 15:14:32 <ArtForz> and don't forget the whole "let's force PulseAudio onto everyone because we think it's better than sliced bread even though the PA devs say it's not ready" debacle
1917 2011-04-30 15:14:32 <wumpus> use the GNU Hurd!
1918 2011-04-30 15:14:33 <ForceDestroyer> Bitcoin is financial stuff, we can't go "but we don't like your OS so go away"
1919 2011-04-30 15:15:00 <EvanR> ForceDestroyer: im still not understanding this. did you download the official client and run the binary?
1920 2011-04-30 15:15:03 <EvanR> it doesnt work?
1921 2011-04-30 15:15:11 <ArtForz> the official client works fine on any other distro, so ubuntu broke something
1922 2011-04-30 15:15:12 <EvanR> distro should not fucking matter
1923 2011-04-30 15:15:24 eternal1 has joined
1924 2011-04-30 15:15:24 <ForceDestroyer> EvanR: It worked until I upgraded to ubuntu 11.4
1925 2011-04-30 15:15:31 <EvanR> thats insane
1926 2011-04-30 15:15:56 <EvanR> in production environments i always warn people against upgrading ;)
1927 2011-04-30 15:16:05 <EvanR> bigger version number isnt worth this kind of stuff
1928 2011-04-30 15:16:07 <lianj> ForceDestroyer: which error message?
1929 2011-04-30 15:16:12 <ForceDestroyer> None
1930 2011-04-30 15:16:17 <ForceDestroyer> The UI is invisible
1931 2011-04-30 15:16:19 TheAncientGoat has quit (Excess Flood)
1932 2011-04-30 15:16:23 <wumpus> yes, always plan your upgrades carefully
1933 2011-04-30 15:16:27 <ArtForz> nothing in debug.log either?
1934 2011-04-30 15:16:42 <EvanR> if it aint broke dont fix it
1935 2011-04-30 15:16:46 <ForceDestroyer> I have planned it, and well, I could do a re-install of the old version fairly cheaply
1936 2011-04-30 15:16:52 <wumpus> and don't switch to stuff before other people tested it, unless you want to be beta tester
1937 2011-04-30 15:17:05 <ArtForz> wild guess, they broke something in Wx
1938 2011-04-30 15:17:39 <EvanR> its kind of disconcerting you dont get an error message
1939 2011-04-30 15:17:46 <EvanR> seems like something should catch something somewhere
1940 2011-04-30 15:17:56 <wumpus> EvanR: nah, companies use that to explain why they still use IE6 :') there can be many reasons for upgrading, not only fixing things that are broken
1941 2011-04-30 15:17:57 <lianj> ForceDestroyer: does the client run in bitcoind mode?
1942 2011-04-30 15:18:03 <ForceDestroyer> The client runs
1943 2011-04-30 15:18:10 <ForceDestroyer> Just the UI is invisible lol
1944 2011-04-30 15:18:10 <EvanR> wumpus: still stands. IE6 is broke. fix it
1945 2011-04-30 15:18:17 <wumpus> if you get too much out of sync with the rest of the world you're 'broken' too
1946 2011-04-30 15:18:22 <EvanR> no you arent
1947 2011-04-30 15:18:26 <ArtForz> seriously, new ubuntu releases are pretty well known for randomly breaking shit
1948 2011-04-30 15:18:37 <ForceDestroyer> lianj: look at this topic: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5443.0
1949 2011-04-30 15:18:42 <luke-jr> seriously, GNU has no binary compatibility
1950 2011-04-30 15:18:48 <EvanR> note the ubiquitous old style unix mainframes running business shit in the back room, still works.
1951 2011-04-30 15:18:50 <luke-jr> people should stop building binaries and expecting them to work every OS
1952 2011-04-30 15:18:52 <wumpus> yes, you are... communication is important these days, so is keeping up with others
1953 2011-04-30 15:19:01 <EvanR> c++ strategy is to be binary incompatible
1954 2011-04-30 15:19:02 <luke-jr> Ubuntu should only be *expected* to run Ubuntu packages
1955 2011-04-30 15:19:04 <luke-jr> and so on
1956 2011-04-30 15:19:15 <wumpus> that doesn't mean you have to crazily hop to new versions of stuff, that's not what I'm saying, but delaying updates indefinitely is also not realistic
1957 2011-04-30 15:19:30 <ForceDestroyer> "compiz specific problem" appears a lot around there. But I'm a linux noob, and the people on #ubuntu say I can't turn it off or something.
1958 2011-04-30 15:19:32 <luke-jr> if someone wants Ubuntu support, build a proper Ubuntu package
1959 2011-04-30 15:19:40 <EvanR> wumpus: yes it is, see my example
1960 2011-04-30 15:20:01 <EvanR> people still run working SCO unixware
1961 2011-04-30 15:20:42 <wumpus> to give a stupid example, at the company I work at we still use word 2003, which means that we cannot cope with clients sending us newer documents... at a certain moment, that will make us obsolete
1962 2011-04-30 15:20:55 <wumpus> no one lives in an isolated island
1963 2011-04-30 15:21:01 <EvanR> untrue
1964 2011-04-30 15:21:09 <wumpus> or if you do, be sure to grow a beard
1965 2011-04-30 15:21:25 <luke-jr> I do!
1966 2011-04-30 15:21:25 <EvanR> in fact if you are indeed on an isolated island you can save a lot of money by not fucking with shit
1967 2011-04-30 15:21:32 <luke-jr> also, BTC just beat pi
1968 2011-04-30 15:21:34 <bencoder> someone flooding.. ?
1969 2011-04-30 15:21:44 <wumpus> right, because you can have your isolated island with 100000 BTC in your own bitcoin chain
1970 2011-04-30 15:21:46 <wumpus> that'd be fun
1971 2011-04-30 15:21:47 <EvanR> wumpus: take example the use of COBOL on old ibm computers in the financial or banking institutions
1972 2011-04-30 15:21:57 <EvanR> you want them to upgrade? lol
1973 2011-04-30 15:22:12 <wumpus> oh yes they will upgrade eventually or go out of business
1974 2011-04-30 15:22:17 <EvanR> why?
1975 2011-04-30 15:22:28 <wumpus> because the world is going on
1976 2011-04-30 15:22:34 <EvanR> seems to work so far
1977 2011-04-30 15:22:35 <luke-jr> because the COBOL doesn't apply to bitcoins well
1978 2011-04-30 15:23:23 <EvanR> the question of future compatibility is pretty serious with bitcoin
1979 2011-04-30 15:23:28 <wumpus> yes, but just because something is working up until now doesn't mean it will work forever, banks make that mistake a lot of times :)
1980 2011-04-30 15:23:36 <EvanR> becuase you dont want embedded bitcoin devices to suddenly not work because the world moved on
1981 2011-04-30 15:23:45 <sacarlson> EvanR: ya they also have old fortran code I thought wasn't needed but no one wants to rewrite it so it goes on
1982 2011-04-30 15:23:55 <EvanR> yeah in numerics stuff
1983 2011-04-30 15:23:58 <wumpus> that's why nearly all devices have updateable firmware these days
1984 2011-04-30 15:23:59 <EvanR> fortran is god
1985 2011-04-30 15:24:11 <EvanR> wumpus: and that makes me very unesay
1986 2011-04-30 15:24:20 <wumpus> it used to worry me
1987 2011-04-30 15:24:21 <EvanR> one day my wii may suddenly not work
1988 2011-04-30 15:24:30 <luke-jr> wumpus: EvanR needs a firmware update on his brain
1989 2011-04-30 15:24:33 <luke-jr> but it's outdated
1990 2011-04-30 15:24:36 <wumpus> but new I look at things more biologically
1991 2011-04-30 15:24:51 <EvanR> 'how i learned to stop worrying and love random indescriminant, faith based, remotely initiated bios flashes"
1992 2011-04-30 15:24:54 <EvanR> \o/
1993 2011-04-30 15:25:22 <EvanR> you say what happened with sonys customer data
1994 2011-04-30 15:25:29 <wumpus> things are changing and going faster and faster, it's a fact of life, you can only accept it or go frustrated
1995 2011-04-30 15:25:31 <EvanR> why is it inconceivable to happen with firmware upgrades
1996 2011-04-30 15:25:49 <EvanR> wumpus: no. i can advocate making shit safer, not less safe
1997 2011-04-30 15:26:12 <wumpus> you can try making things more safe, but only under realistic pretense
1998 2011-04-30 15:26:18 <EvanR> otherwise this house of cards will come crashing down, and whats sad is most consumers probably wont give a shit. they grew with with windows 98 freezing everyon twenty seconds
1999 2011-04-30 15:26:30 <EvanR> computers are just inherently broken to them
2000 2011-04-30 15:26:35 <wumpus> yes, houses of cards will come falling down once in a while
2001 2011-04-30 15:26:44 <wumpus> the next house built will be better
2002 2011-04-30 15:26:52 <EvanR> wow you must be popular in management circles
2003 2011-04-30 15:27:02 dust2 has joined
2004 2011-04-30 15:27:11 <EvanR> just do whatever shit and let it blow up in our faces
2005 2011-04-30 15:27:14 bitcoiner has joined
2006 2011-04-30 15:27:17 <EvanR> i guess thats one way to deal with optimism bias
2007 2011-04-30 15:27:18 <wumpus> that's not what I'm saying
2008 2011-04-30 15:27:36 <wumpus> I'm not saying we should throw all care out of the window and hop unto everything new
2009 2011-04-30 15:27:43 <wumpus> but the opposite extreme doesn't work either
2010 2011-04-30 15:27:46 <EvanR> thats the general strategy though
2011 2011-04-30 15:27:50 <EvanR> there is no opposite extreme
2012 2011-04-30 15:27:52 <wumpus> see my island analogy
2013 2011-04-30 15:27:59 <EvanR> there is only sanity
2014 2011-04-30 15:28:01 mologie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015 2011-04-30 15:28:07 <wumpus> no, there is no sanity
2016 2011-04-30 15:28:12 <wumpus> just look at the world
2017 2011-04-30 15:28:14 <wumpus> :D
2018 2011-04-30 15:28:19 <EvanR> thats fine, go with god
2019 2011-04-30 15:29:22 Akiron has joined
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2021 2011-04-30 15:29:53 prax has quit (Changing host)
2022 2011-04-30 15:29:53 prax has joined
2023 2011-04-30 15:30:30 * noagendamarket brings an ipad down from the mountain
2024 2011-04-30 15:30:46 <EvanR> lol
2025 2011-04-30 15:31:13 <da2ce7> *noagendamarket gets angry and breaks it in two... "Fucking i-jail"
2026 2011-04-30 15:31:22 <citiz3n> Moses was a lawbreaker, did you know that?
2027 2011-04-30 15:31:30 <da2ce7> lawl
2028 2011-04-30 15:32:18 <da2ce7> http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/Moses
2029 2011-04-30 15:32:27 <wumpus> hehe
2030 2011-04-30 15:32:47 <da2ce7> *warning encyclopediadramatica may be NSFW
2031 2011-04-30 15:32:48 <noagendamarket> lol
2032 2011-04-30 15:33:09 * noagendamarket cant be moses because he doesnt have abeard
2033 2011-04-30 15:33:41 * EvanR parts the dirac sea
2034 2011-04-30 15:34:47 bk128 has joined
2035 2011-04-30 15:34:53 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2036 2011-04-30 15:35:01 * da2ce7 buys some manna with BTC
2037 2011-04-30 15:35:48 * noagendamarket parts the b t sea
2038 2011-04-30 15:35:59 <da2ce7> OOOOO
2039 2011-04-30 15:37:02 * da2ce7 watches goatse.cx for a real parting
2040 2011-04-30 15:37:04 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2041 2011-04-30 15:38:05 Kiba has joined
2042 2011-04-30 15:38:42 <da2ce7> G'day kiba
2043 2011-04-30 15:38:43 <da2ce7> :)
2044 2011-04-30 15:39:13 AStove has joined
2045 2011-04-30 15:39:46 <citiz3n> da2ce7, that website is so bad lol
2046 2011-04-30 15:39:53 <citiz3n> http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/File:Jewstika.jpg
2047 2011-04-30 15:40:15 <luke-jr> ;;bc,lukepool
2048 2011-04-30 15:40:16 <da2ce7> citiz3n, I did warn you that it might be nsfw
2049 2011-04-30 15:40:16 <gribble> 11524828.9109
2050 2011-04-30 15:40:22 <Kiba> hmm
2051 2011-04-30 15:40:43 <Kiba> 100 K USD volume again?
2052 2011-04-30 15:40:44 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
2053 2011-04-30 15:40:58 dsg has joined
2054 2011-04-30 15:41:23 <da2ce7> citiz3n, they accept bitcoin: http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/donate.php
2055 2011-04-30 15:41:36 <noagendamarket> http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn250/paawkx/ObamaGoatse.jpg
2056 2011-04-30 15:41:51 <noagendamarket> someone should do a goatse of the bitcoin logo :0
2057 2011-04-30 15:42:02 <da2ce7> :) great meme!
2058 2011-04-30 15:42:03 <da2ce7> :)
2059 2011-04-30 15:42:07 <da2ce7> 4chan it
2060 2011-04-30 15:42:19 <noagendamarket> I bet theres a pic of ben bernank thats appropriate
2061 2011-04-30 15:42:22 <noagendamarket> lol
2062 2011-04-30 15:42:36 <da2ce7> "you can get you girlfriend to do *** if you pay her bitcoin"
2063 2011-04-30 15:42:55 <da2ce7> *your
2064 2011-04-30 15:43:24 altamic has joined
2065 2011-04-30 15:45:50 <da2ce7> warning may be nsfw: http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/Adolf_Hitler
2066 2011-04-30 15:51:21 mologie has joined
2067 2011-04-30 15:55:59 TD has joined
2068 2011-04-30 16:01:02 <UukGoblin> fucking hell aren't these ATI linux drivers fucked up
2069 2011-04-30 16:01:13 <UukGoblin> why is moving of large windows so bloody slow?
2070 2011-04-30 16:01:31 <da2ce7> UukGoblin, ati drivers are fucked on all platforms
2071 2011-04-30 16:01:47 <UukGoblin> and where is my xrandr?
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2083 2011-04-30 16:31:47 wiktor_b is now known as clipboard
2084 2011-04-30 16:31:53 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,stats
2085 2011-04-30 16:31:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 121070 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 1905 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 14 hours, 43 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 149501.21166030
2086 2011-04-30 16:31:59 clipboard is now known as wiktor_b
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2100 2011-04-30 17:02:49 <comboy> $4 ?! watta
2101 2011-04-30 17:03:21 Lazymeerkat has joined
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2103 2011-04-30 17:05:06 Lazymeerkat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2104 2011-04-30 17:05:11 <comboy> this is madness
2105 2011-04-30 17:06:12 <Kiba> madness, indeed
2106 2011-04-30 17:06:32 <BlueMatt> high: 4.15...wtf?
2107 2011-04-30 17:06:36 <Kiba> hmm
2108 2011-04-30 17:06:44 <Kiba> we have passed the 3.14 pi parity already
2109 2011-04-30 17:07:01 <BlueMatt> is there any parity left to hit?
2110 2011-04-30 17:07:27 cuddlefish is now known as __mian__
2111 2011-04-30 17:07:35 __mian__ is now known as cuddlefish
2112 2011-04-30 17:08:08 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: 1 BTC = 1 oz of gold?
2113 2011-04-30 17:08:34 manifold has joined
2114 2011-04-30 17:08:42 <BlueMatt> curiositysquared: heh, good point, though I was thinking more along the lines of other currencies
2115 2011-04-30 17:08:58 <cuddlefish> ... very nice highlight there
2116 2011-04-30 17:09:20 <BlueMatt> oops sorry curiositysquared bad tab complete should have been cuddlefish
2117 2011-04-30 17:09:27 <cuddlefish> BRB meetup
2118 2011-04-30 17:09:35 * cuddlefish is away: SF meetup! Wooo!
2119 2011-04-30 17:12:00 berto- has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2120 2011-04-30 17:13:44 <manifold> Hi, the value of BTC is going crazy right now.....
2121 2011-04-30 17:13:56 cuddlefish has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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2127 2011-04-30 17:19:04 <molecular> manifold, yes, some people believe in either the success of bitcoin or use the "greater idiot" theory
2128 2011-04-30 17:19:11 <davex__> who's running mtgox now?
2129 2011-04-30 17:19:24 <manifold> molecular: greater idiot?
2130 2011-04-30 17:19:26 <BlueMatt> davex__: MagicalTux
2131 2011-04-30 17:19:33 <davex__> MagicalTux, you around?
2132 2011-04-30 17:19:38 <MagicalTux> yes
2133 2011-04-30 17:19:39 <khalahan> MagicalTux is a grator idiot ?
2134 2011-04-30 17:19:47 <khalahan> greater*
2135 2011-04-30 17:19:59 <manifold> molecular: what is that supposed to mean...
2136 2011-04-30 17:20:00 <khalahan> (sorry, perfect timing :p)
2137 2011-04-30 17:20:34 <molecular> "As long as there's a bigger idiot to buy your crap, you're hedged!" <- from http://www.monkeybusinessblog.com/mbb_weblog/2009/06/the-bigger-idiot-theory-is-alive-and-well.html
2138 2011-04-30 17:20:55 <molecular> khalahan, no
2139 2011-04-30 17:21:39 <molecular> just saying: why are people buying such large amount: 1.) they believe that bitcoin will become a success and prices rise or 2.) they believe prices rise because there will be someone else speculating so they can sell at a higher price later
2140 2011-04-30 17:21:57 <molecular> the "bigger idiot"
2141 2011-04-30 17:22:01 <manifold> ok
2142 2011-04-30 17:22:16 <molecular> while I belive in the 1st case myself, the 2nd case might also motivate to buy
2143 2011-04-30 17:22:23 <comboy> if investors get interested it's inevitable, 5M bitcoins ain't much
2144 2011-04-30 17:22:31 <manifold> well, anyway that is all positive for the bitcoins. Even if it is only a short bubble
2145 2011-04-30 17:22:41 <molecular> agreed
2146 2011-04-30 17:22:48 <Kiba> with ever more increasing price hike, I think the amout of bitcoin volume will get lower and lower
2147 2011-04-30 17:22:54 <comboy> but basically considering 2 cases commonly discussed: bitcoin worth nothing or a lot at the end of the year, probabilities are shiftingnicely
2148 2011-04-30 17:23:10 <manifold> and I doubled my bitcoin woth (20 BTC) ;-)
2149 2011-04-30 17:23:15 <manifold> :-D
2150 2011-04-30 17:23:26 <comboy> we are possibly most valuable currency currently, slashdots must come ;)
2151 2011-04-30 17:23:27 <Kiba> everybody should at least have a 10 BTC hedge
2152 2011-04-30 17:23:36 <comboy> lol
2153 2011-04-30 17:23:38 <manifold> but I won't sell, I stick t it
2154 2011-04-30 17:23:40 <manifold> but I won't sell, I stick to it
2155 2011-04-30 17:23:55 <Cusipzzz> they want you to sell
2156 2011-04-30 17:24:01 <Cusipzzz> don't fall for their trap
2157 2011-04-30 17:25:23 <manifold> when is the BTC Reward cut to half? 50 BTC/Block -> 25 BTC/Block ?
2158 2011-04-30 17:25:32 <comboy> 2014 afair
2159 2011-04-30 17:25:38 <manifold> ok
2160 2011-04-30 17:25:49 <manifold> thats a while...
2161 2011-04-30 17:26:05 <comboy> yeah, that's a long time
2162 2011-04-30 17:26:14 <mtrlt> thought it was next year :P
2163 2011-04-30 17:26:22 <UukGoblin> hang on, you're thinking it might be a short bubble?
2164 2011-04-30 17:26:30 <manifold> hmmm.... when now...
2165 2011-04-30 17:26:31 <comboy> I wish it would be designed to do it faster
2166 2011-04-30 17:26:39 <comboy> but I may gave you wrong year, not sure
2167 2011-04-30 17:26:41 <sipa> comboy: december 2012
2168 2011-04-30 17:26:47 <manifold> sure?
2169 2011-04-30 17:26:47 <comboy> oh, sorry then
2170 2011-04-30 17:26:54 <BlueMatt> meh the world will be over by then anyway
2171 2011-04-30 17:26:57 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
2172 2011-04-30 17:26:57 <gribble> 121074
2173 2011-04-30 17:27:35 <manifold> sipa: where did you get the info?
2174 2011-04-30 17:27:47 <sipa> it's my own estimate
2175 2011-04-30 17:28:06 <manifold> hmm....
2176 2011-04-30 17:28:12 <sipa> the subsidy change is at block 210000, 88926 blocks from now
2177 2011-04-30 17:28:29 <sipa> if you count 580s per block (reasonable as long as there is some continuous growth)
2178 2011-04-30 17:28:30 <manifold> ok
2179 2011-04-30 17:28:38 <sipa> that means dec 17 2012
2180 2011-04-30 17:28:42 tabsa has joined
2181 2011-04-30 17:28:44 <manifold> ok. Thanks
2182 2011-04-30 17:29:00 <UukGoblin> I guess it's gonna be dec 21
2183 2011-04-30 17:29:05 <UukGoblin> or was it 12?
2184 2011-04-30 17:29:15 <UukGoblin> anyway it should synchronize itself with the end of world nicely.
2185 2011-04-30 17:29:27 DavidSJ has quit (Quit: DavidSJ)
2186 2011-04-30 17:30:01 <comboy> somebody fake some bitcoin logo in maya cage please ;)
2187 2011-04-30 17:30:15 <comboy> cage/building ruin whatever I don't want to offend them ;)
2188 2011-04-30 17:30:16 <UukGoblin> everyone will panic at the 2x difficulty increase ;-P
2189 2011-04-30 17:30:25 <noagendamarket> heh
2190 2011-04-30 17:30:37 <sacarlson> didn't I see some code that php could pull the mtgox price so I could make auto ajustments, so unstable I need to figure out something to automate
2191 2011-04-30 17:30:38 <comboy> for home miners summer is enough to panic :)
2192 2011-04-30 17:30:46 <BlueMatt> price will either triple or hit .05
2193 2011-04-30 17:31:10 <UukGoblin> .05?
2194 2011-04-30 17:31:15 <UukGoblin> don't scare us!
2195 2011-04-30 17:31:28 <comboy> well I think now when it's so high, people won't see it profitable to sell at 0.5..1 so I think it should not go to 0 so fast now
2196 2011-04-30 17:31:51 <comboy> at $1 I was constantly afraid of some 0.01 too
2197 2011-04-30 17:32:13 <comboy> now just whiskey, cigar, mtgox, FUCK YEAH
2198 2011-04-30 17:32:46 <AmpDrinker> ;;bc,gen 6500000
2199 2011-04-30 17:32:47 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 6500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 59.6140834113 BTC per day and 2.48392014214 BTC per hour.
2200 2011-04-30 17:33:22 <comboy> 6,5ghash, that's a lot of heat :)
2201 2011-04-30 17:33:47 <sacarlson> what hapens when you plug a testnet address into a bitcoin running main net? it will just ignore it will it not?
2202 2011-04-30 17:34:16 <comboy> huh, I would say bitcoins may go to hell, since it is correct address
2203 2011-04-30 17:34:39 <comboy> you may try with some decent amount and save us some inflation period
2204 2011-04-30 17:34:50 boaz has joined
2205 2011-04-30 17:35:37 <sacarlson> comboy: I thought the first address bit flaged it as testnet or main
2206 2011-04-30 17:35:42 <comboy> ok I'm turning off net before btc crashes and ruins my mood
2207 2011-04-30 17:35:56 <mtrlt> remember to sell first ;-)
2208 2011-04-30 17:36:50 <manifold> what fee's does mtgox take?
2209 2011-04-30 17:37:04 <sacarlson> manifold: 2%?
2210 2011-04-30 17:37:10 <comboy> sacarlson: I didn't know that if that's true
2211 2011-04-30 17:37:36 <manifold> oh I found it:
2212 2011-04-30 17:37:37 <manifold> Minimum withdraw amount in the US by direct deposit is $800. There is no fee.
2213 2011-04-30 17:37:37 <manifold> Minimum withdraw amount in the EU is 10.00⬠with a 2% fee (minimum of 0.35â¬) deducted from sent amount.
2214 2011-04-30 17:37:44 <manifold> Mt Gox charges a small fee (0.65%) for each trade.
2215 2011-04-30 17:38:07 <sacarlson> manifold: what about withdraw?
2216 2011-04-30 17:38:10 <manifold> hmmm.... that's not so low...
2217 2011-04-30 17:38:18 theymos has joined
2218 2011-04-30 17:38:29 <manifold> I use bitmarket, and I workes well without fees.
2219 2011-04-30 17:39:09 m00p has joined
2220 2011-04-30 17:39:10 <sacarlson> manifold: I should setup another exchange for USD then if it's that lucrative
2221 2011-04-30 17:39:34 <manifold> :-D
2222 2011-04-30 17:39:42 m00p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2223 2011-04-30 17:40:20 <manifold> bye
2224 2011-04-30 17:40:36 manifold has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2225 2011-04-30 17:42:19 DavidSJ has joined
2226 2011-04-30 17:43:12 <luke-jr> sacarlson: if it supports TBC and has volume, I will use it :P
2227 2011-04-30 17:43:23 <joepie92> wtf is happening to the mt gox rate
2228 2011-04-30 17:43:24 <joepie92> :|
2229 2011-04-30 17:44:17 <sacarlson> luke-jr what is your thing with tbc? I dought it will have much volume it would be hard to compete with that big boy
2230 2011-04-30 17:45:57 <luke-jr> sacarlson: I prefer TBC ofc
2231 2011-04-30 17:46:42 Lachesis has joined
2232 2011-04-30 17:46:51 <sacarlson> luke-jr looked like hex to me, I'm sure it would have it's advantages
2233 2011-04-30 17:48:49 <sacarlson> ok here's my rambling if anyone is interested time for a beer for me http://exchange.surething.biz/docs/crypto-currency-trust.pdf
2234 2011-04-30 17:49:24 warpi has joined
2235 2011-04-30 17:50:01 <Lachesis> o.m.g.
2236 2011-04-30 17:50:06 <Lachesis> ;;bc,mtgox
2237 2011-04-30 17:50:07 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.3,"vol":83229,"buy":3.61,"sell":3.747,"last":3.748}}
2238 2011-04-30 17:50:07 tabsa has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2240 2011-04-30 17:53:06 Akiron has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2241 2011-04-30 17:54:16 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2242 2011-04-30 17:54:16 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.3,"vol":83562,"buy":3.626,"sell":3.7287,"last":3.72}}
2243 2011-04-30 17:54:22 fabianhjr has joined
2244 2011-04-30 17:59:41 B0g4r7 has joined
2245 2011-04-30 18:00:28 <B0g4r7> ;;bc,stats
2246 2011-04-30 18:00:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 121076 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 1899 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 142568.53961932
2247 2011-04-30 18:01:23 dust2 has joined
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2250 2011-04-30 18:06:06 dvide_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2252 2011-04-30 18:08:56 ArtForzZz has joined
2253 2011-04-30 18:10:27 <soultcer> Huh, bitcoin has been on CNN?
2254 2011-04-30 18:11:18 <B0g4r7> heh
2255 2011-04-30 18:11:29 <B0g4r7> Wait 'til that Forbes article hits the print edition on 5/9.
2256 2011-04-30 18:11:29 <soultcer> http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/29/4-trends-shaping-the-emerging-superfluid-economy/
2257 2011-04-30 18:11:41 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2258 2011-04-30 18:11:56 <soultcer> hehe I can already see all the speculators waiting for that
2259 2011-04-30 18:12:19 <soultcer> Guess I should have waited with selling my bitcoins, could have made a couple thousand backs ;-)
2260 2011-04-30 18:12:29 <B0g4r7> ;;bc,mtgox
2261 2011-04-30 18:12:30 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.3,"vol":84906,"buy":3.77,"sell":3.781,"last":3.77}}
2262 2011-04-30 18:12:32 <soultcer> *bucks
2263 2011-04-30 18:12:36 <B0g4r7> Oh my.
2264 2011-04-30 18:12:45 <B0g4r7> Yeah, same here.
2265 2011-04-30 18:13:13 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
2266 2011-04-30 18:15:34 <sipa> mtgox made some nice money today :D
2267 2011-04-30 18:17:59 dvide_ has joined
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2272 2011-04-30 18:20:08 RBecker has joined
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2275 2011-04-30 18:21:35 MartianW` is now known as MartianW
2276 2011-04-30 18:21:41 MartianW has quit (Changing host)
2277 2011-04-30 18:21:41 MartianW has joined
2278 2011-04-30 18:21:41 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2279 2011-04-30 18:21:42 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.3,"vol":84266,"buy":3.78,"sell":3.781,"last":3.781}}
2280 2011-04-30 18:21:48 <JFK911> how does mtgox make money
2281 2011-04-30 18:21:55 <JFK911> i've never used it so i'm not sure about its workings
2282 2011-04-30 18:22:00 <B0g4r7> They take .065% of all trades.
2283 2011-04-30 18:22:00 <theymos> Trade fees.
2284 2011-04-30 18:22:06 <JFK911> cool
2285 2011-04-30 18:23:08 <mrb_> actually 0.65% (not .065%) for each side of the transaction
2286 2011-04-30 18:23:16 <mrb_> so 1.3% per transaction
2287 2011-04-30 18:23:48 <B0g4r7> er...0.65%
2288 2011-04-30 18:24:00 <B0g4r7> ya
2289 2011-04-30 18:24:18 <B0g4r7> So if volume = 84266...
2290 2011-04-30 18:24:49 <B0g4r7> They would have made 547.729 in whatever period that measures (24 hrs?)
2291 2011-04-30 18:25:00 <B0g4r7> ...Or maybe it doesn't quite that way.
2292 2011-04-30 18:25:03 <B0g4r7> work
2293 2011-04-30 18:25:14 <mrb_> more like 1095 BTC
2294 2011-04-30 18:25:21 <mrb_> again it is 1.3% per transaction
2295 2011-04-30 18:25:30 <B0g4r7> They take the fee at trade time?
2296 2011-04-30 18:25:41 <mrb_> yes
2297 2011-04-30 18:25:58 <B0g4r7> Cool, so yeah, it's directly tied to volume.
2298 2011-04-30 18:26:08 fimp has joined
2299 2011-04-30 18:26:15 <B0g4r7> And yeah, you would be right about them taking it on both sides.
2300 2011-04-30 18:26:30 <B0g4r7> That's not bad money.
2301 2011-04-30 18:27:33 mologie has joined
2302 2011-04-30 18:28:13 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2303 2011-04-30 18:28:13 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.3,"vol":84467,"buy":3.83,"sell":3.85,"last":3.83}}
2304 2011-04-30 18:32:05 DavidSJ has quit (Quit: DavidSJ)
2305 2011-04-30 18:33:21 jeremydei has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2306 2011-04-30 18:34:31 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2307 2011-04-30 18:34:32 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.3,"vol":84845,"buy":3.9494,"sell":3.9499,"last":3.9494}}
2308 2011-04-30 18:34:36 <JFK911> here we go
2309 2011-04-30 18:34:59 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2310 2011-04-30 18:34:59 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.3,"vol":84845,"buy":3.9494,"sell":3.9499,"last":3.9494}}
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2316 2011-04-30 18:38:51 <kelvie_> When you send money using the GUI bitcoin client, how does it know which account to take funds from?
2317 2011-04-30 18:38:59 <kelvie_> And how long does a transaction usually take to get confirmed?
2318 2011-04-30 18:39:30 <B0g4r7> Blocks are produced every 10 minutes or so.
2319 2011-04-30 18:39:34 <theymos> It takes BTC from random accounts. It should take about an hour for a transaction to get 6 confirmatinos.
2320 2011-04-30 18:39:42 <B0g4r7> Each block should contain a confirmation.
2321 2011-04-30 18:39:48 <kelvie_> Ah, alright; thanks
2322 2011-04-30 18:39:59 <sipa> B0g4r7: no, a block *is* a confirmation
2323 2011-04-30 18:40:20 <B0g4r7> Hopefully.
2324 2011-04-30 18:40:27 <sipa> no, by definition
2325 2011-04-30 18:40:29 <B0g4r7> Unless there is a fork.
2326 2011-04-30 18:40:40 <sipa> ah yes of course
2327 2011-04-30 18:41:01 <sipa> i was just remarking on the "block contains a confirmation", that's not true
2328 2011-04-30 18:41:23 eternal1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2329 2011-04-30 18:41:26 docl is now known as lsparrish
2330 2011-04-30 18:41:26 <sipa> but i'm nitpicking :)
2331 2011-04-30 18:41:32 <luke-jr> sipa: or the block doesn't include your txn
2332 2011-04-30 18:41:54 <luke-jr> "contains" is more accurate than "is" IMO
2333 2011-04-30 18:42:12 fimp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2334 2011-04-30 18:42:55 <sipa> that seems to imply that each further block has something related to your transaction in it, which is not true, it's only implicitly linked to it using the prev tx
2335 2011-04-30 18:44:37 <B0g4r7> Yeah...Really, each block affirms all previous blocks in the chain.
2336 2011-04-30 18:44:44 fimp has joined
2337 2011-04-30 18:45:31 <sipa> exactly
2338 2011-04-30 18:45:32 <B0g4r7> The way the client represents it is a bit confusing.
2339 2011-04-30 18:46:44 <B0g4r7> Actually I guess it's not, it's just a bit of an odd concept to wrap the mind around.
2340 2011-04-30 18:47:00 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2341 2011-04-30 18:47:22 <B0g4r7> It's a great example of the butterfly effect.
2342 2011-04-30 18:47:40 <B0g4r7> Where every part of every block affects all subsequent ones.
2343 2011-04-30 18:47:42 <sipa> i find the best way to look at it that a block is a vote by a miner to state that he likes a certain number of transactions accepted, and he himselfs accepts the vote of a previous miner
2344 2011-04-30 18:47:56 <sipa> he votes using his cpu/gpu power, which cannot be faked
2345 2011-04-30 18:48:56 <luke-jr> sipa: the first confirmation IS directly related
2346 2011-04-30 18:49:16 <sipa> luke-jr: yes, yes it is
2347 2011-04-30 18:49:25 retinal has joined
2348 2011-04-30 18:49:55 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2349 2011-04-30 18:49:57 <sipa> but saying "transactions contain confirmations" (where confirmations is defined as the number shown by the client) is confusing, imho
2350 2011-04-30 18:50:09 <sipa> eh, "block contain confirmations"
2351 2011-04-30 18:50:58 <luke-jr> nah
2352 2011-04-30 18:50:59 <luke-jr> works for me
2353 2011-04-30 18:51:02 redengin has joined
2354 2011-04-30 18:51:11 <luke-jr> sipa: you on Eligius?
2355 2011-04-30 18:51:19 <sipa> what's that?
2356 2011-04-30 18:51:23 <luke-jr> my pool
2357 2011-04-30 18:51:36 <sipa> no
2358 2011-04-30 18:51:40 <luke-jr> aww
2359 2011-04-30 18:54:13 tabsa has joined
2360 2011-04-30 18:56:32 toffoo has joined
2361 2011-04-30 18:57:54 koolfy has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2362 2011-04-30 18:59:04 koolfy has joined
2363 2011-04-30 18:59:42 <sipa> luke-jr: you got 1.497 Ghash/s extra in your pool :)
2364 2011-04-30 19:00:52 tomh has joined
2365 2011-04-30 19:01:03 <joepie92> holy shit
2366 2011-04-30 19:01:07 <joepie92> it;s nearly hitting 4
2367 2011-04-30 19:01:08 <joepie92> :|
2368 2011-04-30 19:01:41 <sipa> it already did
2369 2011-04-30 19:01:47 <tomh> anyone developing trading bots for bitcoin?
2370 2011-04-30 19:01:55 <joepie92> sipa: I don't see it hitting 4 anywhere? :P
2371 2011-04-30 19:02:14 <mtrlt> it did before. 4.15
2372 2011-04-30 19:02:16 <tcatm> sipa: can you adjust xrange for http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-thumbnail.png ?
2373 2011-04-30 19:02:17 <mtrlt> ;;bc,stats
2374 2011-04-30 19:02:19 <gribble> Current Blocks: 121085 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 1890 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 0 hours, 58 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 144453.67555329
2375 2011-04-30 19:02:28 <mtrlt> no, not that one. crap i never remember the commands :D
2376 2011-04-30 19:02:31 <djoot> ;;bc,mtgox
2377 2011-04-30 19:02:32 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.3,"vol":77986,"buy":3.86,"sell":3.988,"last":3.98}}
2378 2011-04-30 19:02:39 <mtrlt> that.
2379 2011-04-30 19:02:40 <tcatm> s/xrange/yrange/
2380 2011-04-30 19:02:58 <devon_hillard> CNN, WTF
2381 2011-04-30 19:03:10 <sipa> 18:31:19 <+gribble> Apr30 16:30:43 mtgox 17.5570 @ 4.14996 USD
2382 2011-04-30 19:03:14 <devon_hillard> BTC at 10 USD anyone? :p
2383 2011-04-30 19:03:32 <sipa> tcatm: ah, right
2384 2011-04-30 19:03:42 <luke-jr> sipa: ty
2385 2011-04-30 19:03:44 <luke-jr> ;;bc,lukepool
2386 2011-04-30 19:03:46 <mtrlt> hehe, 1 THash :)
2387 2011-04-30 19:03:46 <gribble> 10923533.4895
2388 2011-04-30 19:04:45 <sipa> 10.9Ghash/s ?
2389 2011-04-30 19:05:13 <mtrlt> yep
2390 2011-04-30 19:05:17 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 10900000
2391 2011-04-30 19:05:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10900000 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 12 hours and 13 seconds
2392 2011-04-30 19:05:22 BitterTea has joined
2393 2011-04-30 19:05:22 BitterTea has quit (Changing host)
2394 2011-04-30 19:05:22 BitterTea has joined
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2396 2011-04-30 19:07:07 tomh has left ()
2397 2011-04-30 19:08:41 FrankyJoe has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2398 2011-04-30 19:08:55 <retinal> ;;bc,lukepool
2399 2011-04-30 19:08:55 <gribble> 10980799.7201
2400 2011-04-30 19:08:59 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 65000000
2401 2011-04-30 19:09:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 65000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 2 hours and 46 seconds
2402 2011-04-30 19:09:07 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 65000
2403 2011-04-30 19:09:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 65000 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 11 weeks, 6 days, 20 hours, 56 minutes, and 49 seconds
2404 2011-04-30 19:09:31 <lulzplzkthx> ;;bc,mtgox
2405 2011-04-30 19:09:31 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.3,"vol":77640,"buy":3.94,"sell":3.988,"last":3.988}}
2406 2011-04-30 19:09:36 <lulzplzkthx> HOLY FUCK
2407 2011-04-30 19:09:37 <lulzplzkthx> you serious?
2408 2011-04-30 19:09:40 <sipa> tcatm: done
2409 2011-04-30 19:09:51 <retinal> lulzplzkthx: serious as potatoes
2410 2011-04-30 19:09:54 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: insane isnt it
2411 2011-04-30 19:09:57 <lulzplzkthx> wait it was 2.70 yesterday
2412 2011-04-30 19:10:01 <lulzplzkthx> seriously that can't... what.
2413 2011-04-30 19:10:01 <tcatm> sipa: thx!
2414 2011-04-30 19:10:25 thedrs has joined
2415 2011-04-30 19:11:21 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 35390
2416 2011-04-30 19:11:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 35390 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 22 weeks, 0 days, 1 hour, 8 minutes, and 1 second
2417 2011-04-30 19:11:40 thedrs has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2418 2011-04-30 19:11:48 FrankyJoe has joined
2419 2011-04-30 19:14:20 CrazyThinker has joined
2420 2011-04-30 19:15:23 Vladimir has joined
2421 2011-04-30 19:19:57 gruez has joined
2422 2011-04-30 19:20:43 <Vladimir> quite interesting to watch seller's strike in times of panic buying
2423 2011-04-30 19:21:35 CrazyThinker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2424 2011-04-30 19:22:09 jroot has joined
2425 2011-04-30 19:22:17 <joepie92> mmm
2426 2011-04-30 19:22:21 <joepie92> you think it will rise more?
2427 2011-04-30 19:22:29 <luke-jr> maybe
2428 2011-04-30 19:22:31 <davex__> i can't tell if it's panic buying, or just some rich guy pushing prices up
2429 2011-04-30 19:22:33 <luke-jr> someone is selling a house in OTC
2430 2011-04-30 19:22:38 <joepie92> wat :|
2431 2011-04-30 19:22:43 <luke-jr> 170 kBTC
2432 2011-04-30 19:23:47 <fabianhjr> LAWL!
2433 2011-04-30 19:25:27 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2434 2011-04-30 19:27:25 bk128 has joined
2435 2011-04-30 19:28:28 <Lachesis> luke-jr, what's that in tonal?
2436 2011-04-30 19:28:29 <devon_hillard> is artforz online?
2437 2011-04-30 19:29:02 <luke-jr> Lachesis: î§76,1î§î§6.1 TBC
2438 2011-04-30 19:29:07 <Lachesis> also, i want to add a ConnectToNode rpc method, but i can't decipher this ThreadOpenConnections2 crap
2439 2011-04-30 19:29:12 <devon_hillard> ArtForzZz: what is your rough Ghash/s? :)
2440 2011-04-30 19:29:23 FrankyJoe has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2441 2011-04-30 19:29:24 <Lachesis> i assume zZz means sleeping
2442 2011-04-30 19:29:28 <luke-jr> so just over î§76 áµTBC
2443 2011-04-30 19:29:42 <mrb_> devon_hillard: he said 38 Ghash/s
2444 2011-04-30 19:29:51 <Lachesis> what's î§ in A..F notation?
2445 2011-04-30 19:30:43 <devon_hillard> mrb_: wow, from FPGAs?
2446 2011-04-30 19:30:51 <Lachesis> ASICs, but yeah
2447 2011-04-30 19:30:56 <Lachesis> and a lot of 5970s
2448 2011-04-30 19:31:00 <Lachesis> unless he shut those down
2449 2011-04-30 19:31:19 manifold_ has joined
2450 2011-04-30 19:31:27 <Lachesis> î§ == F
2451 2011-04-30 19:32:22 <Lachesis> F76,1EF6.10 TBC for those of us who prefer CS hexadecimal
2452 2011-04-30 19:32:25 curiositysquared has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2453 2011-04-30 19:32:41 Teppy has joined
2454 2011-04-30 19:32:48 <luke-jr> correct
2455 2011-04-30 19:33:01 <Lachesis> wait, i thought you said 170,000 BTC
2456 2011-04-30 19:33:32 <Lachesis> oh i see
2457 2011-04-30 19:33:45 gim has joined
2458 2011-04-30 19:33:45 <luke-jr> yes
2459 2011-04-30 19:34:47 <Lachesis> why is 1 TBC != 1BTC?
2460 2011-04-30 19:35:34 <Lachesis> aww, and why is 9 in tonal != 9 in decimal
2461 2011-04-30 19:36:40 <luke-jr> Lachesis: because 1 BTC = 100,000,000 units
2462 2011-04-30 19:36:49 <Lachesis> ah cool
2463 2011-04-30 19:36:49 <luke-jr> Lachesis: because 9 is a reversed 6
2464 2011-04-30 19:36:57 <Lachesis> and eww at that
2465 2011-04-30 19:36:59 <vorlov> hi
2466 2011-04-30 19:37:03 <Lachesis> hey
2467 2011-04-30 19:37:24 <vorlov> i'm back from yesterday and i have some more n00b questions...
2468 2011-04-30 19:37:26 <Lachesis> luke-jr, i'm gonna stick with 0..F since i can type that
2469 2011-04-30 19:37:27 <luke-jr> Lachesis: it's not designed for decimal users, it's designed for newbies and tonal users ;)
2470 2011-04-30 19:37:28 <Lachesis> shoot
2471 2011-04-30 19:37:56 <luke-jr> Lachesis: prepend 0x to signify hex if it's ambiguous ;)
2472 2011-04-30 19:37:58 <vorlov> im still struggling to understand how does Art's kernel does sha-256
2473 2011-04-30 19:37:58 <Lachesis> luke-jr, at least they stopped at 16/2
2474 2011-04-30 19:38:11 <Lachesis> vorlov, very, very carefully :)
2475 2011-04-30 19:38:12 <luke-jr> eg, 0x900 instead of just 900
2476 2011-04-30 19:38:15 <vorlov> heheh
2477 2011-04-30 19:38:16 <Lachesis> which kernel are you talking about
2478 2011-04-30 19:38:18 <vorlov> i'll be more specific
2479 2011-04-30 19:38:21 stonetz has joined
2480 2011-04-30 19:38:22 <vorlov> the opencl one
2481 2011-04-30 19:38:26 <luke-jr> Lachesis: 16/2?
2482 2011-04-30 19:38:29 <Lachesis> the one used by poclbm
2483 2011-04-30 19:38:29 <vorlov> the one with the search function in it
2484 2011-04-30 19:38:32 <vorlov> yes
2485 2011-04-30 19:38:35 <vorlov> the one used by poclbm
2486 2011-04-30 19:38:37 <vorlov> and diablo
2487 2011-04-30 19:38:44 <Lachesis> luke-jr, fine, fine î§/2 :)
2488 2011-04-30 19:38:55 <vorlov> let me be more specific
2489 2011-04-30 19:39:03 <vorlov> im trying to understand what do the arguments represent
2490 2011-04-30 19:39:11 <luke-jr> Lachesis: now I'm even more confused
2491 2011-04-30 19:39:13 <vorlov> state0, state 1... etc... b1,c1,... f1,g1....
2492 2011-04-30 19:39:33 <Lachesis> luke-jr, 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, <insert made up digits>
2493 2011-04-30 19:39:42 <Lachesis> vorlov, you've seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA-2, right?
2494 2011-04-30 19:39:48 <luke-jr> Lachesis: English? :P
2495 2011-04-30 19:39:54 <vorlov> yes, and i have to admit its a lil above my level
2496 2011-04-30 19:40:08 <vorlov> i have read it as well as psuedocode they show there
2497 2011-04-30 19:40:09 <Lachesis> luke-jr, nyquist only started making up numbers after he got to decimal 16/2 (8)
2498 2011-04-30 19:40:19 <Lachesis> Nystrom**
2499 2011-04-30 19:40:24 <luke-jr> oh, yes
2500 2011-04-30 19:40:35 <Lachesis> 16 being the base of the tonal system, that makes some sense
2501 2011-04-30 19:40:43 <luke-jr> 8*2 = 10
2502 2011-04-30 19:40:46 <luke-jr> 10 is the base :P
2503 2011-04-30 19:40:47 <Lachesis> vorlov, so those are all different internal variables for the hash function
2504 2011-04-30 19:41:01 <vorlov> ok
2505 2011-04-30 19:41:04 <Lachesis> that's always true, for any number system (except i guess unary, which is just bull)
2506 2011-04-30 19:41:12 <vorlov> but how do we match 1:1 with our data packet...?
2507 2011-04-30 19:41:14 <Lachesis> 10 is the base of binary too
2508 2011-04-30 19:41:24 <Lachesis> ah i see
2509 2011-04-30 19:41:45 <Lachesis> hold on vorlov let me read the code really fast
2510 2011-04-30 19:41:51 <vorlov> ok
2511 2011-04-30 19:42:35 <luke-jr> Lachesis: X is the base of roman numerals :p
2512 2011-04-30 19:42:42 <Lachesis> luke-jr, lol
2513 2011-04-30 19:42:46 <Lachesis> vorlov, do you read python?
2514 2011-04-30 19:42:57 <vorlov> yes i understand python but its not my strongest language
2515 2011-04-30 19:43:04 <vorlov> tho i understand most of the poclbm code
2516 2011-04-30 19:43:08 <vorlov> [i seem to think atleast]
2517 2011-04-30 19:43:35 <Lachesis> vorlov, http://pastebin.com/KNLHE7cc
2518 2011-04-30 19:43:48 <vorlov> yes im there too
2519 2011-04-30 19:43:52 <vorlov> in that section
2520 2011-04-30 19:43:57 <vorlov> and this is the section im tyring to understand
2521 2011-04-30 19:44:15 <Lachesis> ok
2522 2011-04-30 19:44:16 <vorlov> so i understand they take the hex and turn it into unicode to represent the bytes and make numbers out of them
2523 2011-04-30 19:44:28 <Lachesis> unicode?
2524 2011-04-30 19:44:33 <vorlov> decode("hex")
2525 2011-04-30 19:44:35 <Lachesis> ah
2526 2011-04-30 19:44:39 <Lachesis> that decodes to a byte string
2527 2011-04-30 19:44:41 WantToBuy has joined
2528 2011-04-30 19:44:45 <vorlov> ok
2529 2011-04-30 19:44:48 <Lachesis> so every 2 hex chars
2530 2011-04-30 19:44:52 <Lachesis> becomes a single byte
2531 2011-04-30 19:44:52 <vorlov> becomes one byte...
2532 2011-04-30 19:44:55 <vorlov> understand
2533 2011-04-30 19:44:56 <Lachesis> ok
2534 2011-04-30 19:44:59 <WantToBuy> ;;bc,help
2535 2011-04-30 19:44:59 <gribble> Alias bc,avgprc, Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,lukepool, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and (1 more message)
2536 2011-04-30 19:45:01 <Lachesis> then unpack (from the struct module)
2537 2011-04-30 19:45:05 <vorlov> but why use from postion 128 and onwards....
2538 2011-04-30 19:45:06 <Lachesis> creates a tuple of integers
2539 2011-04-30 19:45:14 <vorlov> isn't that byte 64 and onwards
2540 2011-04-30 19:45:15 <vorlov> ?
2541 2011-04-30 19:45:29 <vorlov> is that basically past the block header?
2542 2011-04-30 19:45:38 <Lachesis> hold on
2543 2011-04-30 19:46:11 <Lachesis> interesting
2544 2011-04-30 19:47:09 <vorlov> i thought the block header was 80bytes?....
2545 2011-04-30 19:47:34 <Lachesis> so data is the first 128 bytes of the block
2546 2011-04-30 19:47:40 <lianj> method( a, *state[0:], b ) for python would be fun
2547 2011-04-30 19:47:52 <Lachesis> err
2548 2011-04-30 19:48:04 <vorlov> the first?
2549 2011-04-30 19:48:09 thedrs has joined
2550 2011-04-30 19:48:19 <vorlov> i thought [128:] means from position 128 and onwards till the end of the string...?
2551 2011-04-30 19:48:22 <thedrs> ;;bc,help
2552 2011-04-30 19:48:23 <gribble> Alias bc,avgprc, Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,labs, Alias bc,lbs, Alias bc,lukepool, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,nexttarget, Alias bc,poolstats, Alias bc,prob, Alias bc,stats, Alias bc,timetonext, Alias bc,totalbc, and (1 more message)
2553 2011-04-30 19:48:25 <Lachesis> yes, it does
2554 2011-04-30 19:48:30 <Lachesis> i'm reading the bitcoin code right now
2555 2011-04-30 19:48:47 <Lachesis> FormatHashBuffers() in particular
2556 2011-04-30 19:48:56 <vorlov> where is that found
2557 2011-04-30 19:48:56 <vorlov> ?
2558 2011-04-30 19:48:59 <Lachesis> main.cpp
2559 2011-04-30 19:49:03 <vorlov> ok
2560 2011-04-30 19:49:04 <WantToBuy> if I have a 10M hash/Sec GPU - is it worth my time/money to have it run ?
2561 2011-04-30 19:49:06 <vorlov> lemme load up too
2562 2011-04-30 19:49:10 <Lachesis> Wack0, no
2563 2011-04-30 19:49:12 <Lachesis> WantToBuy, no
2564 2011-04-30 19:49:23 <WantToBuy> You want less competition do you ?
2565 2011-04-30 19:49:29 <Lachesis> WantToBuy, lol
2566 2011-04-30 19:49:34 <Lachesis> WantToBuy, 10MH/s is nothing
2567 2011-04-30 19:49:40 <WantToBuy> What do you guys run ?
2568 2011-04-30 19:49:45 <luke-jr> 298 MH
2569 2011-04-30 19:49:46 <Lachesis> 386MH/s
2570 2011-04-30 19:49:49 <luke-jr> WantToBuy: join my pool plz kthx
2571 2011-04-30 19:49:57 <lianj> hehe
2572 2011-04-30 19:49:59 <Lachesis> WantToBuy, you'll make $0.34 a day
2573 2011-04-30 19:50:02 <vorlov> ok so what do we learn from formathashblocks
2574 2011-04-30 19:50:03 <vorlov> ?
2575 2011-04-30 19:50:21 <Lachesis> well the work['data'] section comes from pdata
2576 2011-04-30 19:50:31 <Lachesis> pdata is the first 128 bytes of tmp.block
2577 2011-04-30 19:50:50 <Lachesis> tmp.block is a struct
2578 2011-04-30 19:50:55 <Lachesis> (the inner unnamed2 struct)
2579 2011-04-30 19:51:13 <Lachesis> 4 + 8 + 8 + 4 + 4 + 4 bytes long though
2580 2011-04-30 19:51:17 <vorlov> yes
2581 2011-04-30 19:51:19 <vorlov> so 64 bytes
2582 2011-04-30 19:51:19 <Lachesis> oh i see
2583 2011-04-30 19:51:28 <Lachesis> 32, right?
2584 2011-04-30 19:51:33 <vorlov> 32 yes
2585 2011-04-30 19:51:33 <thedrs> wanttobuy: anything is worth running
2586 2011-04-30 19:51:36 <vorlov> i got confused
2587 2011-04-30 19:51:39 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
2588 2011-04-30 19:52:01 <Lachesis> 32 bytes followed by 64 bytes of padding followed by 8 bytes of hash followed by 64 more bytes of padding
2589 2011-04-30 19:52:05 <thedrs> luke-jr: is that your total pool rate ?
2590 2011-04-30 19:52:09 <Lachesis> so FormatHashBlocks must be screwing with that paddign
2591 2011-04-30 19:52:19 <luke-jr> thedrs: no
2592 2011-04-30 19:52:20 <vorlov> i thought tho the header is 4+32+32+4+4+4
2593 2011-04-30 19:52:23 <luke-jr> ;;bc,lukepool
2594 2011-04-30 19:52:24 <gribble> 12569937.6196
2595 2011-04-30 19:52:28 <luke-jr> 12.5 GH for the pool
2596 2011-04-30 19:52:40 <thedrs> wow nice
2597 2011-04-30 19:52:41 <Lachesis> oh shit yeah
2598 2011-04-30 19:52:44 <vorlov> ver 4b, prevhash 32b, merkle root, 32b, timestamp,bits and nonce 4b
2599 2011-04-30 19:52:46 <Lachesis> 256 / 8 != 8 :)
2600 2011-04-30 19:53:00 <vorlov> so 64 bytes total
2601 2011-04-30 19:53:04 <WantToBuy> What client do I need to run to use my GPU ?
2602 2011-04-30 19:53:20 <Lachesis> no, 80, right?
2603 2011-04-30 19:53:21 <luke-jr> WantToBuy: no client needed
2604 2011-04-30 19:53:22 <thedrs> luke-jr: is that the largest pool around ?
2605 2011-04-30 19:53:25 <Lachesis> and we're pulling the last 64 of that
2606 2011-04-30 19:53:31 <Lachesis> meaning ignoring the first 16
2607 2011-04-30 19:53:36 <vorlov> oh shit yes 80
2608 2011-04-30 19:53:37 <Lachesis> that seems strange
2609 2011-04-30 19:53:52 <vorlov> yes exactly
2610 2011-04-30 19:53:56 <vorlov> ignoring those first 16
2611 2011-04-30 19:54:10 <luke-jr> WantToBuy: talk here
2612 2011-04-30 19:54:38 <vorlov> yesterday arts said something about the endianess being reversed
2613 2011-04-30 19:54:43 <vorlov> could the whole hex string be reversed
2614 2011-04-30 19:54:44 <vorlov> ?
2615 2011-04-30 19:54:50 <Lachesis> oh it could be
2616 2011-04-30 19:54:54 <Lachesis> then we'd be ignoring the last 16
2617 2011-04-30 19:54:58 <vorlov> yes
2618 2011-04-30 19:55:01 <WantToBuy> ok
2619 2011-04-30 19:55:06 <Lachesis> still seems odd though
2620 2011-04-30 19:55:12 <WantToBuy> the client has an option to mien .. not very efficient but it has an option
2621 2011-04-30 19:55:13 <vorlov> yes i agree
2622 2011-04-30 19:55:18 <Lachesis> since that'd ignore 4 bytes of the merkleroot
2623 2011-04-30 19:55:37 <Lachesis> wait... no it wouldn't
2624 2011-04-30 19:55:44 <Lachesis> the block header is 80 bytes
2625 2011-04-30 19:55:51 <Lachesis> but we're copying 128 from its location to pdata
2626 2011-04-30 19:56:07 <Lachesis> so pdata is HEADER + 48 bytes of whatever's in pchPadding0
2627 2011-04-30 19:56:43 <Lachesis> so i guess we'd still be ignoring 16 bytes of header, wouldn't we...
2628 2011-04-30 19:56:57 <vorlov> yes i think so
2629 2011-04-30 19:57:12 <Lachesis> yeah, i don't get that
2630 2011-04-30 19:57:20 <Lachesis> gonna have to ask ArtForzZz when he stops zZzing
2631 2011-04-30 19:57:25 <WantToBuy> Guys - Can any 1 tell me what prog/client I need to use my GPU to mine?
2632 2011-04-30 19:57:25 <WantToBuy> [22:52] <WantToBuy> The regular client (setting - generate coins) is not efficient
2633 2011-04-30 19:57:38 <Lachesis> WantToBuy, poclbm
2634 2011-04-30 19:57:47 <Lachesis> or diablo
2635 2011-04-30 19:57:48 <WantToBuy> tx
2636 2011-04-30 19:57:49 <Lachesis> or phoenix-miner
2637 2011-04-30 19:57:58 <Lachesis> search the bitcoin forums
2638 2011-04-30 19:58:00 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2639 2011-04-30 19:58:01 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.62,"vol":74564,"buy":3.65,"sell":3.8499,"last":3.57}}
2640 2011-04-30 19:58:04 <WantToBuy> what u recomend?
2641 2011-04-30 19:58:12 <Lachesis> os?
2642 2011-04-30 19:58:25 <WantToBuy> xp
2643 2011-04-30 19:58:28 <vorlov> u know i htink i get it
2644 2011-04-30 19:58:31 <WantToBuy> 32
2645 2011-04-30 19:58:31 <vorlov> if its reversed
2646 2011-04-30 19:58:39 <Lachesis> WantToBuy, probably diablo
2647 2011-04-30 19:58:43 <vorlov> we are basically reading the first 64 bytes
2648 2011-04-30 19:58:46 <vorlov> so [128:]
2649 2011-04-30 19:58:49 <vorlov> produced the header
2650 2011-04-30 19:58:51 <WantToBuy> tx
2651 2011-04-30 19:58:53 <vorlov> produces
2652 2011-04-30 19:59:04 <Lachesis> well, the first 64 bytes of the header
2653 2011-04-30 19:59:07 luke-jr has quit (Excess Flood)
2654 2011-04-30 19:59:08 <Lachesis> but the header is 80 bytes
2655 2011-04-30 19:59:10 <Lachesis> isn't it?
2656 2011-04-30 19:59:13 <thedrs> luke-jr: do you have an FAQ on how to join your pool ?
2657 2011-04-30 19:59:13 <vorlov> yes u are right
2658 2011-04-30 19:59:16 <JunK-Y> does m0mchil run with ATI driver 11.4 ? im getting pyopencl.LogicError: clGetPlatformIDs failed: invalid/unknown error code . after googling, its like i still have no answer
2659 2011-04-30 19:59:27 luke-jr has joined
2660 2011-04-30 19:59:27 <JunK-Y> (under ubuntu 11.04 64)
2661 2011-04-30 19:59:39 <Lachesis> JunK-Y, what's 11.4?
2662 2011-04-30 19:59:58 <JunK-Y> ATI driver version
2663 2011-04-30 20:00:01 <Lachesis> which dsk?
2664 2011-04-30 20:00:03 <JFK911> did you 'register' ati's opencl
2665 2011-04-30 20:00:03 <Lachesis> sdk*
2666 2011-04-30 20:00:11 <JunK-Y> stream 2.1
2667 2011-04-30 20:00:25 <JFK911> u must follow installation instructions for stream exactly
2668 2011-04-30 20:00:33 <JFK911> last step is important
2669 2011-04-30 20:03:26 <JunK-Y> im getting: ./CLInfo: error while loading shared libraries: libOpenCL.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
2670 2011-04-30 20:03:54 <sipa> use LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$OPENCLDIR/lib/x86_64 ./CLInfo
2671 2011-04-30 20:04:08 <lianj> luke-jr: yes, is there a faq on how to join your pool?
2672 2011-04-30 20:04:20 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Eligius#To_use
2673 2011-04-30 20:05:28 <lianj> just connect to it? no site reg?
2674 2011-04-30 20:05:42 dissipate has joined
2675 2011-04-30 20:05:42 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
2676 2011-04-30 20:05:42 dissipate has joined
2677 2011-04-30 20:05:53 <luke-jr> lianj: correct
2678 2011-04-30 20:05:56 <JunK-Y> luke-jr: the hashrate ( 13128283368.1 is Khash) ?
2679 2011-04-30 20:06:10 <lianj> luke-jr: very nice :)
2680 2011-04-30 20:06:13 <luke-jr> ;;bc,lukepool
2681 2011-04-30 20:06:14 <gribble> 13128283.3681
2682 2011-04-30 20:06:19 <Lachesis> JunK-Y, i assume that's h/s
2683 2011-04-30 20:06:20 <Lachesis> not kh/s
2684 2011-04-30 20:06:22 <luke-jr> JunK-Y: that one is h/s
2685 2011-04-30 20:06:36 <JunK-Y> ;;bc calc 13128283
2686 2011-04-30 20:06:37 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
2687 2011-04-30 20:06:42 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,calc 13128283
2688 2011-04-30 20:06:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 13128283 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 9 hours, 57 minutes, and 58 seconds
2689 2011-04-30 20:06:48 <JunK-Y> nice
2690 2011-04-30 20:08:25 <sipa> in khash/s it would be around 13 times the total hashrate of the network :D
2691 2011-04-30 20:08:55 gruez has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2692 2011-04-30 20:08:57 <JunK-Y> whats the current network speed?
2693 2011-04-30 20:09:33 <devon_hillard> can bitcoin work in a very high latency network scenario? i.e. an interplanetary internet
2694 2011-04-30 20:09:47 <sipa> close to 1 Thash/s, i believe
2695 2011-04-30 20:10:03 <gim> not more than 10min latency i guess
2696 2011-04-30 20:10:11 <JunK-Y> devon_hillard: isnt that protocol still in draft?
2697 2011-04-30 20:10:13 <gim> so probably no
2698 2011-04-30 20:10:16 dust2 has left ()
2699 2011-04-30 20:10:24 <sipa> it would become hard when the latency is over one minute
2700 2011-04-30 20:11:02 <gim> one should develop block chain merging to do interplanetary implementation
2701 2011-04-30 20:11:03 larsivi has joined
2702 2011-04-30 20:11:26 <luke-jr> devon_hillard: no
2703 2011-04-30 20:11:27 <gim> dunno exactly how it could be done
2704 2011-04-30 20:11:33 <JunK-Y> ./CLInfo
2705 2011-04-30 20:11:33 <JunK-Y> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'cl::Error' what(): clGetPlatformIDs
2706 2011-04-30 20:11:36 <luke-jr> devon_hillard: each planet would have its own block chain
2707 2011-04-30 20:11:43 <Vladimir> each planet get it's own blockchain and they trade and exchange currencies, nothing new here
2708 2011-04-30 20:11:52 <luke-jr> devon_hillard: and there would be an interplanetary block chain with blocks every week or something
2709 2011-04-30 20:11:54 <JunK-Y> sipa: it was a problem with my LD_LIBRARY_PATH
2710 2011-04-30 20:11:55 <devon_hillard> so you'd need clearing houses strewn over the solar system
2711 2011-04-30 20:12:21 <gim> well exchanges are 3rd parties
2712 2011-04-30 20:12:49 <gim> so it would be better if a single currency was used
2713 2011-04-30 20:14:23 <gim> or maybe decentralized exchanges could be implemented?
2714 2011-04-30 20:14:25 RBecker has quit (Laptop!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|Quit: You care. You're there for me. You love me so much, and I never want to let it go. You are the one truly amazing person. MDR 3/6/11 <3)
2715 2011-04-30 20:14:44 <gim> as a feature of both currencies?
2716 2011-04-30 20:14:47 <gim> well...
2717 2011-04-30 20:16:21 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
2718 2011-04-30 20:17:12 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2719 2011-04-30 20:17:40 Dudley has joined
2720 2011-04-30 20:17:44 <Dudley> Hello
2721 2011-04-30 20:17:47 <luke-jr> gim: possible
2722 2011-04-30 20:18:00 <JunK-Y> cool, it works under ubuntu 11.04 now (with ati 11.4)
2723 2011-04-30 20:20:34 <Dudley> how can I calculate how many Mhash my CPU can do?
2724 2011-04-30 20:20:42 <lianj> ;;bc,lukepool
2725 2011-04-30 20:20:43 <gribble> 12827635.6574
2726 2011-04-30 20:20:49 <Dudley> My CPU isn't listed under the hardware listing
2727 2011-04-30 20:20:52 <sipa> Dudley: hard to guess
2728 2011-04-30 20:21:22 <Dudley> None of the clients lag analyze?
2729 2011-04-30 20:21:53 <lianj> "PROOF OF WORK RESULT: true (yay!!!)" nice, does this mean we found one already :D
2730 2011-04-30 20:22:01 <luke-jr> lianj: no, that's a share
2731 2011-04-30 20:22:07 <lianj> oh ok
2732 2011-04-30 20:22:49 <fabianhjr> Congratz, prepare for a 40% jump in diff!
2733 2011-04-30 20:23:16 <lianj> luke-jr: is there a status page about your pool?
2734 2011-04-30 20:24:05 <lianj> grr, i should have read your wiki entry first ;)
2735 2011-04-30 20:24:17 <subpar> ;;bc,estimate
2736 2011-04-30 20:24:18 <gribble> 141045.81317236
2737 2011-04-30 20:24:19 <subpar> ouch
2738 2011-04-30 20:25:18 jroot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2739 2011-04-30 20:26:07 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2740 2011-04-30 20:26:20 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
2741 2011-04-30 20:26:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 121093 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 1882 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 5 hours, 42 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 141045.81317236
2742 2011-04-30 20:26:25 <JFK911> ha
2743 2011-04-30 20:27:02 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2744 2011-04-30 20:27:03 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.62,"vol":75723,"buy":3.769,"sell":3.77,"last":3.77}}
2745 2011-04-30 20:28:14 Diablo-D3 has joined
2746 2011-04-30 20:28:54 <fabianhjr> BBL
2747 2011-04-30 20:29:02 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
2748 2011-04-30 20:30:14 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2749 2011-04-30 20:32:28 qwebirc1096 has joined
2750 2011-04-30 20:33:09 d4de has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2751 2011-04-30 20:33:30 <lulzplzkthx> Hmm... I think Bitcoin should have a Balance: x.xx BTC on hover of the Bitcoin icon in tray, and Send coins in the tray menu :\
2752 2011-04-30 20:33:42 * lulzplzkthx goes to see if he can do it himself.
2753 2011-04-30 20:33:50 <B0g4r7> Make it so, Number One.
2754 2011-04-30 20:34:02 <Diablo-D3> lulzplzkthx: problem
2755 2011-04-30 20:34:09 <lulzplzkthx> ?
2756 2011-04-30 20:34:09 <Diablo-D3> the icon doesnt even fucking work right on some platforms
2757 2011-04-30 20:34:18 <lulzplzkthx> oh, yeah, it fails on Linux, doesn't it?
2758 2011-04-30 20:34:27 <lulzplzkthx> well, at least my Windows version will work, heh.
2759 2011-04-30 20:34:37 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: good idea.
2760 2011-04-30 20:35:21 <WantToBuy> Any 1 know why my CPU is at 100% when mining with GPU ? (GUIminer) ?
2761 2011-04-30 20:35:30 <Diablo-D3> WantToBuy: what harwdare
2762 2011-04-30 20:35:41 <WantToBuy> GT220
2763 2011-04-30 20:35:44 <Diablo-D3> thats why
2764 2011-04-30 20:35:52 <Diablo-D3> nvidia drivers are absolute shit and nvidia refuses to fix them
2765 2011-04-30 20:36:11 JackRabiit has joined
2766 2011-04-30 20:36:44 JackRabiit has quit (Client Quit)
2767 2011-04-30 20:36:46 <WantToBuy> Diablo-3D : This is all I got ... may be they will fix one day
2768 2011-04-30 20:36:58 <Diablo-D3> nvidia will go bankrupt first
2769 2011-04-30 20:37:08 <WantToBuy> u think?
2770 2011-04-30 20:37:33 <Diablo-D3> unless they fix it in the next, say, 6 months, yes
2771 2011-04-30 20:37:34 <WantToBuy> Well AMD is Dubai .. and when they run out of oil they will need to fall back on hi-tech
2772 2011-04-30 20:37:48 Lachesis has joined
2773 2011-04-30 20:37:53 <Diablo-D3> erm, AMD is whatnow?
2774 2011-04-30 20:37:54 <B0g4r7> lolwat
2775 2011-04-30 20:38:11 <WantToBuy> Dubai
2776 2011-04-30 20:38:19 <B0g4r7> I know wtf Dubai is.
2777 2011-04-30 20:38:20 <Diablo-D3> Dubai is not in the United States.
2778 2011-04-30 20:38:27 <B0g4r7> What dies it have to do w AMD?
2779 2011-04-30 20:38:36 <WantToBuy> no .. they bought AMD a couple of years ago
2780 2011-04-30 20:38:44 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: really? I thought it was a theme park in arizona
2781 2011-04-30 20:38:53 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: that'd explain the poor people
2782 2011-04-30 20:38:55 <WantToBuy> lol
2783 2011-04-30 20:38:58 qwebirc14113 has joined
2784 2011-04-30 20:39:01 <WantToBuy> didnt u know
2785 2011-04-30 20:39:03 qwebirc14113 has quit (Client Quit)
2786 2011-04-30 20:39:12 qwebirc1096 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2787 2011-04-30 20:39:18 <Diablo-D3> WantToBuy: and no, AMD is publicly traded on the US stock market
2788 2011-04-30 20:39:25 <WantToBuy> lol
2789 2011-04-30 20:39:31 <Diablo-D3> even if you own a stock majority, you dont OWN the company
2790 2011-04-30 20:39:35 <WantToBuy> yes public but .. owned over 50% by Dubai
2791 2011-04-30 20:39:44 <B0g4r7> Dubai what?
2792 2011-04-30 20:39:53 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: hes referring to middle eastern investors
2793 2011-04-30 20:39:54 <B0g4r7> The government of the city of Dubai?
2794 2011-04-30 20:39:54 <WantToBuy> if u r over 50% .. then u call all the shots
2795 2011-04-30 20:40:01 <Diablo-D3> WantToBuy: nope, you dont
2796 2011-04-30 20:40:12 <Diablo-D3> many companies have anti-majority wording in the stock holding contracts
2797 2011-04-30 20:40:36 <Diablo-D3> you get x% of the vote max no matter how much stock you hold over that x%
2798 2011-04-30 20:40:52 <B0g4r7> I doubt those kind of measures work in practice.
2799 2011-04-30 20:40:55 <WantToBuy> They own the oil and now they own the GPUs.. .but at least not Intel (yet)
2800 2011-04-30 20:41:01 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: they do every day.
2801 2011-04-30 20:41:05 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: but that still means you have huge power either way
2802 2011-04-30 20:41:09 <Diablo-D3> its usually there to prevent hostile takeovers
2803 2011-04-30 20:41:19 <B0g4r7> Controlling interest.
2804 2011-04-30 20:41:29 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: well, thats another thing
2805 2011-04-30 20:41:34 <Diablo-D3> many companies also have multiple stock tiers
2806 2011-04-30 20:41:44 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
2807 2011-04-30 20:41:46 <Diablo-D3> of which controlling interest can only be expressed by a certain stock class
2808 2011-04-30 20:41:52 <Diablo-D3> which also cannot leave the company
2809 2011-04-30 20:41:56 <B0g4r7> Yea, preferred shares and such.
2810 2011-04-30 20:41:58 <Diablo-D3> yes
2811 2011-04-30 20:42:00 <genjix> justmoon: hey
2812 2011-04-30 20:42:07 <Diablo-D3> Im not sure of AMD has that, but I wouldnt be surprised if they did
2813 2011-04-30 20:42:13 <justmoon> genjix: what's up?
2814 2011-04-30 20:44:24 Kiba has joined
2815 2011-04-30 20:44:38 <CIA-30> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r16a1ca3d78a8 spesmilo/ (cashier.py main.py): show current balance in system tray tooltop http://tinyurl.com/5s3mpjk
2816 2011-04-30 20:44:44 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: ^
2817 2011-04-30 20:44:46 <Diablo-D3> hah
2818 2011-04-30 20:44:56 <WantToBuy> guys .. a small Q: How do I know one of these servers (bit coin generators) isn't cheating (and only giving us clients .. 50% of actual found hashes) ...
2819 2011-04-30 20:45:09 <Diablo-D3> WantToBuy: you dont.
2820 2011-04-30 20:45:19 <Diablo-D3> WantToBuy: but it'd be kind of obvious
2821 2011-04-30 20:45:29 <WantToBuy> how would u know
2822 2011-04-30 20:45:35 <WantToBuy> I cant see anything
2823 2011-04-30 20:45:41 mologie has joined
2824 2011-04-30 20:45:41 <Diablo-D3> because you know exactly how often you generate shares, typically
2825 2011-04-30 20:45:46 <WantToBuy> They might only disclose a small amount of actual found
2826 2011-04-30 20:45:49 <Diablo-D3> if the number significantly deviates, you know something is wrong
2827 2011-04-30 20:46:06 <WantToBuy> ohh.. I see .. tx
2828 2011-04-30 20:46:13 thnee has left ()
2829 2011-04-30 20:46:25 <B0g4r7> A pool could probably skim 3% without being called out.
2830 2011-04-30 20:46:40 <Diablo-D3> if its only skimming 3%, who cares
2831 2011-04-30 20:46:46 <Diablo-D3> it costs that much to run badly coded pools
2832 2011-04-30 20:46:49 <bd_> WantToBuy: First, if you discover a block for a pool, then you know they just generated a block, and can verify you get a payout. So they can't completely suppress payouts for a block. Also, you can look at the total number of shares they announce there to be vs the rate at which the pool finds blocks; if the rate is too low, they've padding the pool with fake shares to skim off coins
2833 2011-04-30 20:47:36 <B0g4r7> But how do you know kow many blocks a pool makes?
2834 2011-04-30 20:47:50 <Diablo-D3> WantToBuy: btw, it takes approximatley 38 minutes to make 50 shares for every 100 mhash/sec
2835 2011-04-30 20:48:00 <B0g4r7> Other than guessing based on difficulty * participants.
2836 2011-04-30 20:48:21 <Diablo-D3> B0g4r7: its difficult to share steal with how slush and deepbit work
2837 2011-04-30 20:48:23 <WantToBuy> I am at 10M
2838 2011-04-30 20:48:33 <B0g4r7> Like you couldn't look in blockexplorer and say "blocks x, y, and z were generated by pool foo."
2839 2011-04-30 20:48:39 <WantToBuy> Can I run many computers with same account ?
2840 2011-04-30 20:49:13 <B0g4r7> I don't think.
2841 2011-04-30 20:49:18 flok has joined
2842 2011-04-30 20:49:23 <B0g4r7> But then again I've never used a pool so I don't know.
2843 2011-04-30 20:49:27 <Dudley> Is there a command line miner?
2844 2011-04-30 20:49:34 <B0g4r7> Most are, dudley.
2845 2011-04-30 20:49:47 <WantToBuy> There is a GUI .. better :-)
2846 2011-04-30 20:50:06 <Dudley> I'm using Bitcoin for OS X. Is that the best?
2847 2011-04-30 20:50:13 <Dudley> Doesn't seem to give me much for logs.
2848 2011-04-30 20:50:25 fimp has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2849 2011-04-30 20:50:40 <B0g4r7> Best is what suits your needs the best.
2850 2011-04-30 20:50:57 <Dudley> Which do you use?
2851 2011-04-30 20:51:13 <B0g4r7> I run the bitcoin client on OS X and some miners on win7.
2852 2011-04-30 20:51:46 <Dudley> How much do you average within what pool?
2853 2011-04-30 20:51:54 <B0g4r7> I don't use pools at all.
2854 2011-04-30 20:52:09 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: there are two command line gpu miners
2855 2011-04-30 20:52:12 <Dudley> Ah. So how much do you average?
2856 2011-04-30 20:52:14 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: DiabloMiner and poclbm
2857 2011-04-30 20:52:28 <B0g4r7> About 1ghps.
2858 2011-04-30 20:52:32 <B0g4r7> Soon to be 1.5 I hope.
2859 2011-04-30 20:52:43 <Dudley> My servers are off Rackspace. No GPUs onboard.
2860 2011-04-30 20:52:52 manifold_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2861 2011-04-30 20:52:54 <Dudley> CPU miners would be helpful.
2862 2011-04-30 20:53:16 <B0g4r7> Yeah, hosted servers won't be of much use for mining unless they're designed for it.
2863 2011-04-30 20:53:21 <MartianW> Dudley, unless you made significant progress in hashing algorithms you don't stand a chance with CPU miners?
2864 2011-04-30 20:53:23 <B0g4r7> There are such services out there.
2865 2011-04-30 20:53:54 <Dudley> What are the design requirements? Having a GPU?
2866 2011-04-30 20:54:05 <B0g4r7> Habing the right GPU(s)
2867 2011-04-30 20:54:08 <sipa> it's just an economy on itself
2868 2011-04-30 20:54:24 <B0g4r7> And being designed to have them operating at full load with a 100% duty cycle.
2869 2011-04-30 20:54:24 <sipa> more efficient hardware drives slower hardware out of the mining business
2870 2011-04-30 20:54:35 <devon_hillard> Is there a mining pool source available currently?
2871 2011-04-30 20:55:57 Incitatus has joined
2872 2011-04-30 20:57:03 <JunK-Y> how can im getting : "
2873 2011-04-30 20:57:07 <JunK-Y> Verification failed, check hardware!
2874 2011-04-30 20:57:23 <JunK-Y> it works fine on my windows, so i doubt its really the hardware
2875 2011-04-30 20:57:26 RBecker has joined
2876 2011-04-30 20:57:34 <JunK-Y> and I can run BOINC under that linux, without any issue
2877 2011-04-30 21:02:42 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: cpu mining is a waste of electricity
2878 2011-04-30 21:03:15 <Dudley> Again.
2879 2011-04-30 21:03:19 <Dudley> I am using Rackspace.
2880 2011-04-30 21:03:25 <Dudley> I do not get charged for electricity.
2881 2011-04-30 21:03:35 <Diablo-D3> oh, you do
2882 2011-04-30 21:03:41 <Diablo-D3> its just in your massive bill
2883 2011-04-30 21:03:51 <Diablo-D3> also, is that a dedi or a vps?
2884 2011-04-30 21:04:01 <Dudley> dedi
2885 2011-04-30 21:04:15 <Diablo-D3> you do realize that you're going to get like 2-5 mhash/sec, right?
2886 2011-04-30 21:04:27 <Diablo-D3> mediocre GPUs do 200+.
2887 2011-04-30 21:05:03 <Dudley> Better than not doing anything until my render server is up locally.
2888 2011-04-30 21:05:25 <Dudley> Paying for the experience of using the software and building my own analytic tools is fine with me.
2889 2011-04-30 21:05:29 <Diablo-D3> pool mining, you MIGHT make 1btc a month.
2890 2011-04-30 21:06:47 Tril has joined
2891 2011-04-30 21:07:48 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 5000
2892 2011-04-30 21:07:50 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 5000 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 0.0458569872395 BTC per day and 0.00191070780165 BTC per hour.
2893 2011-04-30 21:08:24 <lianj> gpu miners are a disease to bitcoin :D
2894 2011-04-30 21:08:31 WantToBuy has quit (Quit: Take my advice. I don't use it anyway)
2895 2011-04-30 21:08:35 <Dudley> Really seem to be.
2896 2011-04-30 21:08:51 <sipa> they're good and bad
2897 2011-04-30 21:09:24 <sipa> they make it a lot harder for some power to take control over bitcoin, as the amount of computational power they need to have is a lot more
2898 2011-04-30 21:10:21 <Dudley> Then again, they can't answer a question without patting you down and telling you why your setup isn't as balls to the wall
2899 2011-04-30 21:10:27 <Dudley> and using that to not answer a simple question.
2900 2011-04-30 21:11:37 <sipa> who is 'they' ?
2901 2011-04-30 21:12:07 <Dudley> GPU miners.
2902 2011-04-30 21:12:28 <Diablo-D3> dude
2903 2011-04-30 21:12:31 ubuntu_boy has joined
2904 2011-04-30 21:12:32 <Diablo-D3> my setup is so balls to the wall
2905 2011-04-30 21:12:34 <Diablo-D3> I wrote my own miner
2906 2011-04-30 21:12:44 <Dudley> I bet.
2907 2011-04-30 21:12:46 <ubuntu_boy> where can I get the code?
2908 2011-04-30 21:12:52 <ubuntu_boy> github?
2909 2011-04-30 21:12:59 <BlueMatt> github bitcion
2910 2011-04-30 21:13:20 <ubuntu_boy> someone needs to write a CPU miner....
2911 2011-04-30 21:13:26 <Diablo-D3> there is a cpu miner
2912 2011-04-30 21:13:28 <lianj> ubuntu_boy: there are a couple
2913 2011-04-30 21:13:29 <ubuntu_boy> it sucks
2914 2011-04-30 21:13:37 <ubuntu_boy> any good ones?
2915 2011-04-30 21:13:41 <Diablo-D3> well, its a cpu miner
2916 2011-04-30 21:13:44 <Diablo-D3> what do you expect
2917 2011-04-30 21:13:45 <ubuntu_boy> worth mentioing?
2918 2011-04-30 21:13:49 <Dudley> Would have dedicated my PS3 to mining if Sony hadn't gone arse up.
2919 2011-04-30 21:13:50 <Diablo-D3> its on the forums somewhere
2920 2011-04-30 21:13:56 <Diablo-D3> I think its actually named cpuminer
2921 2011-04-30 21:14:02 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: no you wouldnt have
2922 2011-04-30 21:14:18 <Diablo-D3> 250 watts do do about 10 mhash/sec? why bother?
2923 2011-04-30 21:14:25 <ubuntu_boy> do u use CPU miner alone side of GPU D3?
2924 2011-04-30 21:14:26 <Dudley> Again.
2925 2011-04-30 21:14:32 <Dudley> Experience
2926 2011-04-30 21:14:35 <Dudley> software dev.
2927 2011-04-30 21:14:44 <Diablo-D3> IBM's cell SPE opencl compiler is rather good.... SPEs are just too slow for this
2928 2011-04-30 21:14:51 <ubuntu_boy> i see
2929 2011-04-30 21:14:52 <Dudley> I don't ask you "why bother" when you eat something you're going to poop out.
2930 2011-04-30 21:15:00 <Diablo-D3> ubuntu_boy: you should not use CPU mining along side GPU mining
2931 2011-04-30 21:15:07 <Diablo-D3> ubuntu_boy: it unacceptably slows down GPU mining
2932 2011-04-30 21:15:09 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, so basically, I'd hack into ExecutionState.run() and tweak hashCount to be an array of hashCounts one for each device, right?
2933 2011-04-30 21:15:15 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: nope
2934 2011-04-30 21:15:36 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: how do you want the total hash count anyhow? is a float of ghash acceptable?
2935 2011-04-30 21:16:08 <UukGoblin> well let's say it'd be a global megahash count
2936 2011-04-30 21:16:19 <Diablo-D3> well that'd be easy
2937 2011-04-30 21:16:21 <Diablo-D3> thats already counted
2938 2011-04-30 21:16:26 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2939 2011-04-30 21:16:33 <UukGoblin> I mean s/global/per-device/ ;-]
2940 2011-04-30 21:16:53 <Diablo-D3> actually, maybe its not anymore
2941 2011-04-30 21:17:01 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, yes it is
2942 2011-04-30 21:17:02 <Diablo-D3> hashCount
2943 2011-04-30 21:17:14 <UukGoblin> yeah, what I said
2944 2011-04-30 21:17:22 <UukGoblin> I'd change it to be an array of hashCounts
2945 2011-04-30 21:17:27 <UukGoblin> one element per device
2946 2011-04-30 21:17:27 <Diablo-D3> because I do the second meter number as hashCount/(now - start)
2947 2011-04-30 21:17:35 <Diablo-D3> hrrm.
2948 2011-04-30 21:18:00 <devon_hillard> http://www.google.com/trends?q=bitcoin&ctab=0&geo=all&date=ytd&sort=0
2949 2011-04-30 21:18:01 <UukGoblin> I wanna be able to graph the performance of each device alongside with its clock rate
2950 2011-04-30 21:18:09 <devon_hillard> google trends charts the rise and fall of BTC :)
2951 2011-04-30 21:18:15 <UukGoblin> for nicely readable overclocking graphs
2952 2011-04-30 21:18:52 marlowe has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2953 2011-04-30 21:18:58 <Diablo-D3> UukGoblin: I'll think about it
2954 2011-04-30 21:19:41 <UukGoblin> Diablo-D3, I'll probably hack around it a bit this week and the next
2955 2011-04-30 21:19:45 <lulzplzkthx> Does anyone know what the thread with Windows build instructions is called?
2956 2011-04-30 21:19:54 <UukGoblin> was thinking of either simply parsing stdout or some kind of RPC
2957 2011-04-30 21:20:28 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: something about an awarded bounty of 100BTC to me :)
2958 2011-04-30 21:20:29 <UukGoblin> cause I need a master server that'll collect stats from multiple boxes
2959 2011-04-30 21:20:41 <lulzplzkthx> thanks BlueMatt, i can search your posts :)
2960 2011-04-30 21:21:13 <UukGoblin> and that's gonna be temperatures as well as hash counts
2961 2011-04-30 21:22:15 <lulzplzkthx> Thanks for the guide && nightlies too, BlueMatt.
2962 2011-04-30 21:22:22 <lulzplzkthx> i'd give you some btc, but i have none, heh.
2963 2011-04-30 21:22:41 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: np :)
2964 2011-04-30 21:22:48 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2965 2011-04-30 21:23:03 gribble has joined
2966 2011-04-30 21:24:43 <lulzplzkthx> BlueMatt: Question about the guide, you say you need ActivePerl && Perl, does 64-bit work, or do I need 32-bit? Especially if I'm using 32-bit mingw?
2967 2011-04-30 21:25:01 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: no idea, I think I was on a 32bit machine
2968 2011-04-30 21:25:08 <BlueMatt> and activeperl is the perl I used
2969 2011-04-30 21:25:13 <lulzplzkthx> Okay. I'll just go with 32-bit.
2970 2011-04-30 21:25:16 <BlueMatt> so you just need activeperl==perl
2971 2011-04-30 21:25:24 <lulzplzkthx> "ActivePerl and Perl" s/and/or/?
2972 2011-04-30 21:25:34 <BlueMatt> Id bet the other one works to, but I just used activeperl
2973 2011-04-30 21:25:40 <lulzplzkthx> kk
2974 2011-04-30 21:25:48 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: there is no "perl" for win32 there are two options
2975 2011-04-30 21:25:53 <BlueMatt> active or some strawberry thing
2976 2011-04-30 21:26:13 <lulzplzkthx> yeah, i'm getting activeperl and i'm given "for Windows (x86)", "for Windows (64-bit)"
2977 2011-04-30 21:26:23 <lulzplzkthx> i'm just going with x86 though
2978 2011-04-30 21:26:27 <BlueMatt> sounds good
2979 2011-04-30 21:27:33 antivigilante has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2980 2011-04-30 21:28:52 <devrandom> hi BlueMatt...
2981 2011-04-30 21:28:55 antivigilante has joined
2982 2011-04-30 21:29:31 berto- has joined
2983 2011-04-30 21:29:39 <devrandom> would you be into putting up the deterministic built bitcoin on your distribution site?
2984 2011-04-30 21:29:44 <vorlov> is there a way to see what btcaddr did i recieve money from using the JSON-RPC?
2985 2011-04-30 21:29:59 <vorlov> gettransaction <txid> doesn't show what was the originating btcaddr
2986 2011-04-30 21:31:39 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2987 2011-04-30 21:33:19 <luke-jr> devrandom: deterministic built?
2988 2011-04-30 21:33:40 <luke-jr> vorlov: no, because in general, that is not useful information
2989 2011-04-30 21:34:44 <devrandom> luke-jr you've heard of the gitian build process? it's a system to build deterministically, so that multiple people can verify the binary
2990 2011-04-30 21:35:18 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2991 2011-04-30 21:35:41 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2992 2011-04-30 21:35:55 <BlueMatt> devrandom: sure
2993 2011-04-30 21:36:08 <BlueMatt> devrandom: you mean host it there for the script to pull from?
2994 2011-04-30 21:36:12 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
2995 2011-04-30 21:36:42 mologie has joined
2996 2011-04-30 21:37:04 <devrandom> so that gavin and any interested persons can actually compare the hash
2997 2011-04-30 21:37:25 <devrandom> but if you are interested in being one of the script download sources that works too
2998 2011-04-30 21:37:35 <BlueMatt> either way, Ill do it
2999 2011-04-30 21:37:48 berto- has quit (Quit: sleep)
3000 2011-04-30 21:37:57 <devrandom> luke-jr https://github.com/devrandom/bitcoin-release
3001 2011-04-30 21:38:01 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3002 2011-04-30 21:38:02 <BlueMatt> Though Ill have to ask my mirrors if I can get php/other scripting on the server
3003 2011-04-30 21:38:22 <devrandom> luke-jr if you have a VTx enabled computer, you can add your signature to the mix
3004 2011-04-30 21:38:32 antivigilante has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3005 2011-04-30 21:38:47 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I tested poclbm, btw.
3006 2011-04-30 21:38:49 <devrandom> BlueMatt what would the php be for?
3007 2011-04-30 21:38:59 <sipa> devrandom: you need a system that can run a VM?
3008 2011-04-30 21:39:05 <devrandom> yeah
3009 2011-04-30 21:39:08 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: it's faster, but I'm not using it. temperature skyrockets.
3010 2011-04-30 21:39:24 <sipa> devrandom: and that needs to be 24/7 online?
3011 2011-04-30 21:39:27 <devrandom> sipa - it supports qemu/kvm for now
3012 2011-04-30 21:39:55 <devrandom> you can just build, verify that the hash matches and send me a pull request for your signature
3013 2011-04-30 21:39:55 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I plan to test phoenix too, when it's fixed. Currently it has serious network connection problems.
3014 2011-04-30 21:39:56 <BlueMatt> devrandom: for uploading?
3015 2011-04-30 21:40:11 <BlueMatt> devrandom: to upload files I would need scripting
3016 2011-04-30 21:40:14 <BlueMatt> ie upload sigs
3017 2011-04-30 21:40:16 <ubuntu_boy> out of all of the devs/miners here, who has the most GPU [cluster/power]?
3018 2011-04-30 21:40:27 <sipa> ubuntu_boy: ArtForzZz
3019 2011-04-30 21:40:28 <devrandom> sipa - BlueMatt is thinking about creating an signature server so you don't have to do it manually
3020 2011-04-30 21:40:34 <sipa> devrandom: is there some nice explanation of the idea behind it?
3021 2011-04-30 21:40:37 <ubuntu_boy> how big is that?
3022 2011-04-30 21:40:47 <ubuntu_boy> tera?
3023 2011-04-30 21:40:49 <devrandom> BlueMatt - oh, I thought just upload 0.3.21 manually for now
3024 2011-04-30 21:41:04 <sipa> ubuntu_boy: the total network speed is only close to 1 Thash/s
3025 2011-04-30 21:41:06 <BlueMatt> devrandom: ok, fair enough
3026 2011-04-30 21:41:09 <ubuntu_boy> ah
3027 2011-04-30 21:41:12 <BlueMatt> yea Ill host static stuff for sure
3028 2011-04-30 21:41:15 <luke-jr> devrandom: so what is the timestamp in the binary? :P
3029 2011-04-30 21:41:45 toffoo has joined
3030 2011-04-30 21:41:47 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: its set to a constant
3031 2011-04-30 21:42:05 <devrandom> luke-jr - there should either not be a timestamp or there should be a fixed one for each release so that there's no changes between builds
3032 2011-04-30 21:42:38 antivigilante has joined
3033 2011-04-30 21:43:05 <devrandom> sipa - see bottom section of https://gitian.org/
3034 2011-04-30 21:43:25 <devrandom> sipa - I should have a more generic explanation page, that one was specifically for rubygems building
3035 2011-04-30 21:43:36 <devrandom> I have to run, can explain more later
3036 2011-04-30 21:43:56 <sipa> yes, i read that, but it's a bit brief :)
3037 2011-04-30 21:43:57 nanotube has joined
3038 2011-04-30 21:44:11 <WakiMiko> speak of the devil
3039 2011-04-30 21:44:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: in any case, you can help test with bitcoin 0.3.21
3040 2011-04-30 21:44:28 <sipa> please, tell me how :)
3041 2011-04-30 21:44:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: checkout the gitian-builder from github
3042 2011-04-30 21:45:16 berto- has joined
3043 2011-04-30 21:45:51 <sipa> aha https://gist.github.com/806265
3044 2011-04-30 21:46:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh damn, I was just about to write that out
3045 2011-04-30 21:46:14 x6763 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3046 2011-04-30 21:46:37 <BlueMatt> in any case, when you are done...checkout bitcoin-release from devrandom's github account and make a pull request
3047 2011-04-30 21:46:47 <BlueMatt> (or just upload)
3048 2011-04-30 21:48:29 marlowe has joined
3049 2011-04-30 21:48:56 satamusic has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3050 2011-04-30 21:49:16 skyewm has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3051 2011-04-30 21:49:36 <BlueMatt> in other news, gitian-builder will (hopefully) most likely be used to distribute starting at 0.4.0
3052 2011-04-30 21:49:41 <vorlov> where can one donwload phoenix 1.3 miner
3053 2011-04-30 21:49:42 <vorlov> ?
3054 2011-04-30 21:50:21 <BlueMatt> vorlov: google: bitcoin phoenix miner
3055 2011-04-30 21:50:26 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3056 2011-04-30 21:50:26 bgeron has joined
3057 2011-04-30 21:50:30 <bgeron> ;;help
3058 2011-04-30 21:50:32 <vorlov> got it
3059 2011-04-30 21:50:32 <vorlov> th
3060 2011-04-30 21:50:33 <vorlov> x
3061 2011-04-30 21:50:57 <BlueMatt> bgeron: nanotube and gribble seem to be missing
3062 2011-04-30 21:51:04 <bgeron> ah, thanks
3063 2011-04-30 21:51:10 <bgeron> so no trust ratings possible?
3064 2011-04-30 21:51:18 <BlueMatt> nope
3065 2011-04-30 21:51:26 <BlueMatt> no bot commands at all
3066 2011-04-30 21:51:29 <bgeron> okay, thanks for the info
3067 2011-04-30 21:51:51 <bgeron> I should code a web interface for it some day ;)
3068 2011-04-30 21:51:55 x6763 has joined
3069 2011-04-30 21:52:03 <BlueMatt> bgeron: there is (read only though)
3070 2011-04-30 21:53:27 <luke-jr> vorlov: join Eligius!
3071 2011-04-30 21:53:36 <retinal> ;;bc,lukepool
3072 2011-04-30 21:53:40 <retinal> oh, duh
3073 2011-04-30 21:53:47 <luke-jr> ?
3074 2011-04-30 21:53:50 <vorlov> huh
3075 2011-04-30 21:53:50 <vorlov> ?
3076 2011-04-30 21:53:56 <retinal> 10823317585.92
3077 2011-04-30 21:54:01 <luke-jr> vorlov: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Eligius
3078 2011-04-30 21:54:05 <retinal> gribble pinged out
3079 2011-04-30 21:54:07 <luke-jr> o
3080 2011-04-30 21:54:11 amiller has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3081 2011-04-30 21:54:46 amiller has joined
3082 2011-04-30 21:55:04 <BlueMatt> I assume nanotube lost connectivity as he isnt here either
3083 2011-04-30 21:55:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: did you just invent a name for your pool?
3084 2011-04-30 21:55:18 * citiz3n morns the loss of gribble
3085 2011-04-30 21:55:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: a few hours ago :P
3086 2011-04-30 21:55:36 <BlueMatt> "also sometimes referred to as"
3087 2011-04-30 21:55:37 <citiz3n> how did you come up with that name?
3088 2011-04-30 21:55:38 <BlueMatt> lol
3089 2011-04-30 21:55:56 <luke-jr> citiz3n: St. Eligius is the patron Saint of miners
3090 2011-04-30 21:55:58 <luke-jr> :D
3091 2011-04-30 21:56:06 <citiz3n> lol
3092 2011-04-30 21:56:27 <vorlov> phoenix is giving me two errors
3093 2011-04-30 21:56:32 <vorlov> i wonder if im lacking a dependency
3094 2011-04-30 21:56:37 <vorlov> IBodyProducer
3095 2011-04-30 21:56:38 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3096 2011-04-30 21:56:40 <vorlov> cannot find that
3097 2011-04-30 21:56:46 <sipa> BlueMatt, devrandom: http://paste.org/pastebin/view/32590
3098 2011-04-30 21:56:50 <vorlov> and it says to use hashlib instead of md5 module
3099 2011-04-30 21:56:54 <vorlov> anyone else got that?
3100 2011-04-30 21:57:08 <lulzplzkthx> Compiling dependencies sucks...
3101 2011-04-30 21:57:09 <MartianW> luke-jr, nice.
3102 2011-04-30 21:57:15 berto- has quit (Quit: sleep)
3103 2011-04-30 21:57:30 toffoo has joined
3104 2011-04-30 21:57:35 <sipa> rest is for tomorrow, need sleep now
3105 2011-04-30 21:57:38 warpi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3106 2011-04-30 21:57:45 <BlueMatt> sipa: sorry, he missed bin/make-base-vm and bin/make-base-vm -arch i386
3107 2011-04-30 21:57:47 ubuntu_boy has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3108 2011-04-30 21:57:55 <luke-jr> vorlov: poclbm is better than phoenix
3109 2011-04-30 21:58:03 kika has joined
3110 2011-04-30 21:58:19 <vorlov> im just experimenting... wanting to see what each does in terms of speed
3111 2011-04-30 21:58:20 <cosurgi> luke-jr: I'm not sure. but unfortunately phoenix is not working for me.
3112 2011-04-30 21:58:32 <vorlov> can someone tell me why on osx it cant find IBodyProducer inside twisted?
3113 2011-04-30 21:58:34 investor has joined
3114 2011-04-30 21:58:36 <vorlov> i have twisted installed
3115 2011-04-30 21:58:36 <luke-jr> vorlov: just be sure to use the latest poclbm
3116 2011-04-30 21:58:37 <kika> Diablo-D3: how come my 6990 card is mining at only 230000 Khash/s ?
3117 2011-04-30 21:58:42 <investor> mtgox.com down?
3118 2011-04-30 21:58:44 <cosurgi> luke-jr: the point is that with phoenix you can underclock memory to 300 and temp goes down.
3119 2011-04-30 21:58:46 <luke-jr> vorlov: do you have twisted-web?
3120 2011-04-30 21:58:51 <vorlov> i believe so
3121 2011-04-30 21:58:52 <luke-jr> cosurgi: oh well
3122 2011-04-30 21:58:52 <vorlov> cuz when i run
3123 2011-04-30 21:58:52 <kika> its supposed to mine at 600 Mhash/s ?
3124 2011-04-30 21:59:00 <BlueMatt> investor: looks down from here
3125 2011-04-30 21:59:05 <vorlov> import twisted.web.iweb at python prompt it doesnt throw errors
3126 2011-04-30 21:59:18 <investor> not good
3127 2011-04-30 21:59:28 <BlueMatt> investor: if you want bitcoin now, try coinpal
3128 2011-04-30 21:59:42 <BlueMatt> MagicalTux: whats up with mtgox?
3129 2011-04-30 21:59:50 <cosurgi> luke-jr: probelm with phoenix is with network connection to slush's pool.
3130 2011-04-30 21:59:55 * citiz3n also mourns the loss of MT Gox
3131 2011-04-30 21:59:59 <citiz3n> :~(
3132 2011-04-30 22:00:10 <luke-jr> cosurgi: I disagree
3133 2011-04-30 22:00:14 * BlueMatt wonders why so many things are down atm...THE INTERNET IS BROKEN (someone googled google)
3134 2011-04-30 22:00:18 <luke-jr> I don't use slush's pool
3135 2011-04-30 22:00:20 <kika> why diabliminer is mining at only 230.000 Khash/s on my 6990 card?
3136 2011-04-30 22:00:22 <cosurgi> I just checked prices - 60sec ago.
3137 2011-04-30 22:00:27 <cosurgi> luke-jr: with what exactly?
3138 2011-04-30 22:00:33 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: someone invested bitcoins in a bitcoin company
3139 2011-04-30 22:00:38 <luke-jr> cosurgi: the problem is it doesn't get enough MH
3140 2011-04-30 22:00:41 bgeron_ has joined
3141 2011-04-30 22:00:53 <vorlov> can anyone help me with the IBodyProducer problem
3142 2011-04-30 22:00:54 <vorlov> ?
3143 2011-04-30 22:00:56 <vorlov> please
3144 2011-04-30 22:01:00 bgeron has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
3145 2011-04-30 22:01:02 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: well Im referring to amazon+ps3+mtgox+nanotube/girbble+...
3146 2011-04-30 22:01:08 ninjaneo has joined
3147 2011-04-30 22:01:08 nanotube has joined
3148 2011-04-30 22:01:12 <cosurgi> luke-jr: well, it has about the same as poclbm. But is written in a way that I can understand. I'm a python novice, so that counts for me.
3149 2011-04-30 22:01:12 bgeron_ is now known as bgeron
3150 2011-04-30 22:01:13 <BlueMatt> (obviously they are all just as important)
3151 2011-04-30 22:01:18 <citiz3n> that'd suck if MT Gox went down and the site was replaced with a message like "ALL YOUR BTC ARE BELONG TO US" or something of that nature
3152 2011-04-30 22:01:20 <cosurgi> luke-jr: the same speed.
3153 2011-04-30 22:01:29 <Blitzboom> whatâs up with nanotube/gribble, BlueMatt?
3154 2011-04-30 22:01:43 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: neither are online
3155 2011-04-30 22:01:46 <BlueMatt> ;;help
3156 2011-04-30 22:01:47 <BlueMatt> nothing
3157 2011-04-30 22:01:56 <Blitzboom> they are in the channel though
3158 2011-04-30 22:01:59 <investor> so mtgox is down for yall too right?
3159 2011-04-30 22:02:00 <sipa> BlueMatt:
3160 2011-04-30 22:02:01 <sipa> 2011-04-30 23:57:01,457 ERROR : Process (['/usr/sbin/debootstrap', '--arch=amd64', 'lucid', '/tmp/tmppQwNBJ', 'http://127.0.0.1:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu']) returned 1. stdout: I: Retrieving Release
3161 2011-04-30 22:02:05 <sipa> E: Failed getting release file http://127.0.0.1:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/Release
3162 2011-04-30 22:02:09 <sipa> , stderr:
3163 2011-04-30 22:02:13 <sipa> wth is it trying to connect to 127.0.0.1 ?
3164 2011-04-30 22:02:38 <BlueMatt> sipa: sorry, it also expects apt-cacher to be installed
3165 2011-04-30 22:02:54 MartianW has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3166 2011-04-30 22:02:56 <kika> why diabliminer is mining at only 230.000 Khash/s on my 6990 card? isnt it supposed to mine at 600 Mhash ?
3167 2011-04-30 22:02:56 gribble has joined
3168 2011-04-30 22:02:58 <BlueMatt> Id assume you can replace that with other ubuntu repos, but download would take forever
3169 2011-04-30 22:03:06 <BlueMatt> yay gribble is back ,,bc,mtgox
3170 2011-04-30 22:03:12 <sipa> i wouldn't mind an error "cannot find apt-cacher", but this is a bit confusing
3171 2011-04-30 22:03:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, instructions need to be better...
3172 2011-04-30 22:03:31 <gribble> timed out
3173 2011-04-30 22:03:36 sabalaba has joined
3174 2011-04-30 22:03:48 <BlueMatt> gribble: aww you cant connect to mtgox either?
3175 2011-04-30 22:03:51 <kika> BlueMatt: do you have idea why my 6990 card is mining at only 130Mhash/s ?
3176 2011-04-30 22:04:11 <BlueMatt> kika: not my area of expertise (ha like I have one)
3177 2011-04-30 22:04:31 <kika> BlueMatt: how much your 6990 mines at?
3178 2011-04-30 22:04:40 <vorlov> do all of these miners keep on constantly sending requests to the RPC and wait for it to bring back the getwork packet
3179 2011-04-30 22:04:40 <vorlov> ?
3180 2011-04-30 22:05:05 <BlueMatt> kika: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison please dont direct questions to people if they arent actually to that person
3181 2011-04-30 22:05:37 <BlueMatt> vorlov: I think most of them keep a couple getwork's ready to go
3182 2011-04-30 22:05:37 BCSX has joined
3183 2011-04-30 22:05:42 <kika> BlueMatt: i already looked there, and a 6990 card is supposed to mine at 600Mhash/s according to that page but mine is mining at130 Mhash
3184 2011-04-30 22:05:43 <BlueMatt> so you dont have to wait
3185 2011-04-30 22:05:55 <vorlov> i see
3186 2011-04-30 22:06:44 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3187 2011-04-30 22:06:46 <lulzplzkthx> kika: using the Bitcoin client, or another miner?
3188 2011-04-30 22:06:49 <lulzplzkthx> err
3189 2011-04-30 22:06:50 <lulzplzkthx> my bad
3190 2011-04-30 22:06:52 <lulzplzkthx> lol which miner i meant?
3191 2011-04-30 22:06:59 <kika> lulzplzkthx: using diablominer
3192 2011-04-30 22:07:06 <lulzplzkthx> Have you given another one a shot?
3193 2011-04-30 22:07:10 <Diablo-D3> [05:58:25] <kika> why diabliminer is mining at only 230.000 Khash/s on my 6990 card? isnt it supposed to mine at 600 Mhash ?
3194 2011-04-30 22:07:15 <Diablo-D3> suspect you have it configured wrong
3195 2011-04-30 22:07:32 <Diablo-D3> opencl does not work properly on multiple gpus unless you use linux and run the magic aticonfig command
3196 2011-04-30 22:07:40 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3197 2011-04-30 22:08:02 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3198 2011-04-30 22:08:16 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: the card has internal crossfire, right?
3199 2011-04-30 22:08:25 <devon_hillard> you need to disable it, no?
3200 2011-04-30 22:08:28 RBecker has quit (Laptop!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|Quit: You care. You're there for me. You love me so much, and I never want to let it go. You are the one truly amazing person. MDR 3/6/11 <3)
3201 2011-04-30 22:08:40 <kika> Diablo-D3: do you have a link to do that ?
3202 2011-04-30 22:08:54 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: yes
3203 2011-04-30 22:08:55 <kika> devon_hillard: i have no idea?
3204 2011-04-30 22:08:58 <Diablo-D3> kika: are you on linux?
3205 2011-04-30 22:09:02 <kika> Diablo-D3: how do i disable it on win
3206 2011-04-30 22:09:09 <Diablo-D3> you cant usefully disable it on windows.
3207 2011-04-30 22:09:13 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: if I wanted to scan whole nonce range 2^32, it would be enough to assign currentWork.base=-2147483647; ?
3208 2011-04-30 22:09:19 <kika> Diablo-D3: would it be the same if i run it from a linux virtual machine inside my windows machine right?
3209 2011-04-30 22:09:26 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: I havent tested it.
3210 2011-04-30 22:09:32 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: I suspect thats wrong.
3211 2011-04-30 22:09:39 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: also, 2^31 isnt an issue
3212 2011-04-30 22:09:41 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: for example in getWork() .. ok, what may be wrong/
3213 2011-04-30 22:09:56 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: yes, I know it isn't. but I want to try it ;)
3214 2011-04-30 22:10:09 <Diablo-D3> kika: you cant do that
3215 2011-04-30 22:10:17 <BlueMatt> sipa: thanks for testing: https://gist.github.com/950031
3216 2011-04-30 22:10:18 <Diablo-D3> kika: no way to pass your video card to your vm
3217 2011-04-30 22:10:31 <Diablo-D3> kika: btw, you can try turning crossfire off in the amd control panel
3218 2011-04-30 22:10:41 <Diablo-D3> kika: it usually ends up disabling all gpus past #1.
3219 2011-04-30 22:10:57 <sipa> BlueMatt: reming me tomorrow, i'm going to sleep now
3220 2011-04-30 22:11:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok will do
3221 2011-04-30 22:11:04 <Diablo-D3> kika: also, I suspect 6990 in the drivers are fucked up, a lot of people are bitching about 6990 performance in opencl
3222 2011-04-30 22:11:20 <Diablo-D3> kika: make sure you're on 11.4 and have NO sdk installed
3223 2011-04-30 22:11:28 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: does your miner not show rejected blocks or show them the same as all other blocks?
3224 2011-04-30 22:11:31 <Diablo-D3> kika: and make sure the 11.4 is installing the opencl runtime
3225 2011-04-30 22:11:32 toffoo has joined
3226 2011-04-30 22:11:39 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: turn on -d
3227 2011-04-30 22:11:39 <kika> Diablo-D3: ill try let me see
3228 2011-04-30 22:11:49 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: rejected isnt an error message, so it doesnt spit it out
3229 2011-04-30 22:12:34 investor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3230 2011-04-30 22:12:34 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: technically I should be passing a long to the opencl kernel to do 2^32
3231 2011-04-30 22:12:50 <thedrs> fast q: running "rcpminer-cpu", i just saw in the console this message (but i find it hard to believe it mean i solved a block):
3232 2011-04-30 22:13:00 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: this one: .setArg(22, (int) currentWork.base)
3233 2011-04-30 22:13:02 <thedrs> 2011-04-30 21:57:16 Found Hash! Sending to server: {"method":"getwork","params":
3234 2011-04-30 22:13:26 kiba has joined
3235 2011-04-30 22:13:29 <kika> Diablo-D3: when i open diablominer it says Cayman, i see two Cayman devices on OpenCL Platform List... that means... that DiabloMiner is mining using one GPU ?
3236 2011-04-30 22:13:33 <thedrs> ["0000000102d8bc52b1ec5b41d4e773e1d6cebb14c42a90af948edaee00008c32000000005bdff6d8faf72cb1078cddd940025c7ad7b7b125f2acd6ffb7c326ccb400ccd64dbc85ba1b0098fac8fa3600000000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000"],"id":1} Server sent: {"id":1,"error":null,"result":true}
3237 2011-04-30 22:13:43 <thedrs> so what does it mean ?
3238 2011-04-30 22:13:56 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: couple things then, can we get rejected blocks in a separate flag? and can we get miner to keep a total of rejected blocks in addition to accepted ones
3239 2011-04-30 22:14:00 <sipa> thedrs: mining in a pool?
3240 2011-04-30 22:14:02 <Diablo-D3> thedrs: thats the raw json for "accepted"
3241 2011-04-30 22:14:03 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: in opencl that's const uint base, but uint is 32bits. So if you send a signed 32 int, and it gets received as unsigned 32bit it's OK for me.
3242 2011-04-30 22:14:19 <thedrs> sipa: yes
3243 2011-04-30 22:14:28 <sipa> then that means you found a share
3244 2011-04-30 22:14:31 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: its not really worth it
3245 2011-04-30 22:14:36 <thedrs> diablo-d3: "accepted" meaning what ?
3246 2011-04-30 22:14:40 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: nope.
3247 2011-04-30 22:14:48 <Diablo-D3> thedrs: it means bitcoin accepted the block.
3248 2011-04-30 22:14:59 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: I disagree, that is one of the biggest things I like about phoenix (its output)
3249 2011-04-30 22:15:09 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: why? bits are bits. no matter is one of them means "sign" or not.
3250 2011-04-30 22:15:13 <lulzplzkthx> BlueMatt: Is there a address generator like tripcode generators?
3251 2011-04-30 22:15:17 <sipa> thedrs: or in your case, the pool accepted the share
3252 2011-04-30 22:15:19 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: yeah, but then people start bitching about rejected blocks, which is a non-error
3253 2011-04-30 22:15:20 <lulzplzkthx> "...BMatt..."
3254 2011-04-30 22:15:27 <lulzplzkthx> Or did you just create a quick script to do it?
3255 2011-04-30 22:15:29 <thedrs> diablo-d3 + sipa: so it means my pool found the block and got 50 btc for it and i got a share ?
3256 2011-04-30 22:15:37 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: look for gavin's vanity patch
3257 2011-04-30 22:15:37 RBecker has joined
3258 2011-04-30 22:15:40 <lulzplzkthx> Thanks.
3259 2011-04-30 22:15:42 <Diablo-D3> thedrs: no, if you're on a pool, it means you just generated one share
3260 2011-04-30 22:15:49 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3261 2011-04-30 22:15:54 <thedrs> ahh ok
3262 2011-04-30 22:16:00 <sipa> thedrs: no, it means you found something, and the pool will compensate you as soon as it finds a real block
3263 2011-04-30 22:16:02 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: because unsigned <-> signed under java is a huge fucking pain in the ass
3264 2011-04-30 22:16:15 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: well some people want to know this, you dont have to have it on by default?
3265 2011-04-30 22:16:26 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: ok, got it. if I test this I'll let you know.
3266 2011-04-30 22:16:26 chmod755 has joined
3267 2011-04-30 22:16:38 <thedrs> sipa + diablo-D3 : thanks
3268 2011-04-30 22:16:55 <kika> what if i open 30 DiabloMiners instances?
3269 2011-04-30 22:16:58 <kika> Diablo-D3:
3270 2011-04-30 22:17:13 <Diablo-D3> kika: your machine will get very slow.
3271 2011-04-30 22:17:23 <Diablo-D3> kika: btw, if it lists two caymans, your shits working fine
3272 2011-04-30 22:17:28 <lulzplzkthx> Has anybody generated an already-generated address yet?
3273 2011-04-30 22:17:35 <lulzplzkthx> And does anyone know what the chances of that is?
3274 2011-04-30 22:17:36 <kika> Diablo-D3: guiminer lists two caymans
3275 2011-04-30 22:17:36 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: but actually I need something much worse than testing 2^32. I need to record all failed currentWorks that have been scanned on 2^32 (a totally failed getwork which has no solution for 100%)
3276 2011-04-30 22:17:38 <Diablo-D3> kika: just make sure you do NOT have an sdk installed, and 11.4 installed with the runtime.
3277 2011-04-30 22:17:40 <sipa> lulzplzkthx: extremely unlikely
3278 2011-04-30 22:17:44 <kika> guiminer: mines at 300Mhash
3279 2011-04-30 22:17:45 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: not that anyone knows, it would take FOREVER
3280 2011-04-30 22:18:02 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: why? thats a common condition.
3281 2011-04-30 22:18:07 <kika> Diablo-D3: i think i installed an sdk
3282 2011-04-30 22:18:08 <lulzplzkthx> Why, are addresses seeded with something?
3283 2011-04-30 22:18:14 <Diablo-D3> kika: dont.
3284 2011-04-30 22:18:22 <Diablo-D3> kika: especially if its the wrong sdk.
3285 2011-04-30 22:18:24 <lulzplzkthx> I know there are 2^169 addresses, but it seems likely that it would happen at least once.
3286 2011-04-30 22:18:32 <sipa> lulzplzkthx: 2^160
3287 2011-04-30 22:18:36 <kika> Diablo-D3: so i need to unisntall sdk
3288 2011-04-30 22:18:36 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I want to use that data for training a neural network
3289 2011-04-30 22:18:47 <lulzplzkthx> that's what i meant, mistype
3290 2011-04-30 22:18:53 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: go calculate what 2^160 actually is
3291 2011-04-30 22:18:54 <Diablo-D3> kika: yes, and then reboot, and then reinstall 11.4, select the runtime option if its given during install, and then reboot again
3292 2011-04-30 22:19:03 <sipa> ;;calc 2^160
3293 2011-04-30 22:19:09 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: you cant win here.
3294 2011-04-30 22:19:20 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: people far more clever than you have tried and failed
3295 2011-04-30 22:19:21 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: you tell me. For me it's worth a shot.
3296 2011-04-30 22:19:22 <kika> Diablo-D3: if i open like 10 instances of diablominer my changes to find valid hashes increase? i dont mind my pc be slow because ill dedicate this pc only for mining
3297 2011-04-30 22:19:28 <sipa> kika: no
3298 2011-04-30 22:19:30 <kika> *chances
3299 2011-04-30 22:19:35 <Diablo-D3> kika: no.
3300 2011-04-30 22:19:42 <kika> Diablo-D3: why not?
3301 2011-04-30 22:19:44 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: omfg, that's not an argument.
3302 2011-04-30 22:19:47 <Diablo-D3> because it doesnt work that way.
3303 2011-04-30 22:19:48 <sipa> the miner will use whatever it can
3304 2011-04-30 22:19:58 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: dude, people have done phd thesises on their FAILURES in this realm
3305 2011-04-30 22:20:03 <kika> Diablo-D3: i suppose it should sum up all the Mhashes each miner instance is mining at
3306 2011-04-30 22:20:05 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: thats how difficult the problem is
3307 2011-04-30 22:20:16 <lulzplzkthx> kika: I believe each instance would be trying the *same* hashes.
3308 2011-04-30 22:20:17 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: point me one of them
3309 2011-04-30 22:20:19 <Diablo-D3> kika: if your drivers are fucked up, you're not getting any faster.
3310 2011-04-30 22:20:21 <Diablo-D3> lulzplzkthx: no.
3311 2011-04-30 22:20:24 <lulzplzkthx> No?
3312 2011-04-30 22:20:33 <Diablo-D3> lulzplzkthx: why would they? each getwork is unique.
3313 2011-04-30 22:20:41 <lulzplzkthx> Well, in that case. It'd be the same as one dedicated to 10 separate.
3314 2011-04-30 22:20:43 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: dont have any on hand
3315 2011-04-30 22:20:49 <Diablo-D3> lulzplzkthx: no
3316 2011-04-30 22:21:01 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: they don't exist. Or you find me one.
3317 2011-04-30 22:21:01 <Diablo-D3> it'd be the same as running my miner hacked to run 30 execution threads instead of 3
3318 2011-04-30 22:21:07 toffoo has joined
3319 2011-04-30 22:21:12 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: dude, Im not google.
3320 2011-04-30 22:21:17 sabalaba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3321 2011-04-30 22:21:42 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: ok, so now tell me how to test if a getwork was totally failed.
3322 2011-04-30 22:21:55 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: thats a meaningless statement.
3323 2011-04-30 22:22:01 <Diablo-D3> theres no such thing as a failed getwork
3324 2011-04-30 22:22:21 sabalaba has joined
3325 2011-04-30 22:22:23 <Diablo-D3> you're scanning a 2^32 slice of a potential 2^256 area.
3326 2011-04-30 22:22:26 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I see that you are periodically testing in a loop if there's a solution in OUTPUTS. So I need to chatch condition when 2^32 was finished, and no solution found.
3327 2011-04-30 22:22:40 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: no, I only need fails at 2^32
3328 2011-04-30 22:22:50 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: you dont understand the problem scope.
3329 2011-04-30 22:23:04 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: so where 2^256 comes from?
3330 2011-04-30 22:23:24 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: 2^32 nonce, 2^32 time, 2^128 merkleroot.
3331 2011-04-30 22:23:40 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: not a problem. you don't see my approach.
3332 2011-04-30 22:23:44 <Diablo-D3> hrm, that'd be 2^192.
3333 2011-04-30 22:23:48 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I only need 2^32 - nonce.
3334 2011-04-30 22:24:10 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: yes, and due to random permutation, you cannot derive anything of value.
3335 2011-04-30 22:24:11 mologie2 has joined
3336 2011-04-30 22:24:13 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I need to catch a condition when currentWork was scanned on 2^32 and no solution was found.
3337 2011-04-30 22:24:41 <Diablo-D3> the sha256 algo perfectly avalanches.
3338 2011-04-30 22:24:52 <Diablo-D3> for your technique to work, sha256 would have to be wrong
3339 2011-04-30 22:24:57 <Diablo-D3> and we'd already know that by now if it was
3340 2011-04-30 22:24:59 mologie has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3341 2011-04-30 22:25:01 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I know, stop arguing with me, and tell me where in the code put the fucking condition :)
3342 2011-04-30 22:25:08 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: you dont!.
3343 2011-04-30 22:25:35 zeher has joined
3344 2011-04-30 22:26:06 <zeher> does anyone here know who to contact at MTgox>
3345 2011-04-30 22:26:08 <zeher> ?
3346 2011-04-30 22:26:25 <BlueMatt> zeher: ask for MagicalTux
3347 2011-04-30 22:26:30 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: ok, so I will get a proof that sha256 perfectly avalanches. good for another phd, why not
3348 2011-04-30 22:26:40 <Diablo-D3> zeher: MagicalTux
3349 2011-04-30 22:26:56 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: nope, because thats already been proven
3350 2011-04-30 22:27:13 <zeher> MTgox has been down for 15 min
3351 2011-04-30 22:27:13 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: acceptable avalanche performance was required for it to become the sha2 standard.
3352 2011-04-30 22:27:21 <Diablo-D3> zeher: probably maint.
3353 2011-04-30 22:27:31 <zeher> horrible time!!!
3354 2011-04-30 22:27:41 <Diablo-D3> not when you live in japan.
3355 2011-04-30 22:27:45 <zeher> ok
3356 2011-04-30 22:28:13 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: I know that :-p
3357 2011-04-30 22:29:30 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: ok so I decided to calculate the number of tries it would take to generate two identical addresses and wolfamalpha just keeps saying "timed out" so...its fucking huge (to get to 0.1% chance of creating two identical keys, you need x! = 2x10^93 tries)
3358 2011-04-30 22:29:38 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: first of all I would need to increment getworkRefresh to 15 seconds, so that it could scan whole 2^32.
3359 2011-04-30 22:29:48 <BlueMatt> but wolframalpha cant figure out what 2x10^93 = x! is
3360 2011-04-30 22:29:53 <lulzplzkthx> lol okay thanks BlueMatt
3361 2011-04-30 22:30:13 <lulzplzkthx> why is it 2x10^93, can I ask?
3362 2011-04-30 22:30:18 zeher has quit (Client Quit)
3363 2011-04-30 22:30:19 <lulzplzkthx> Sorry if that's quite obvious.
3364 2011-04-30 22:30:23 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: (1/(2^160))^2 * x! = 0.001
3365 2011-04-30 22:30:34 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: what's the unit of getworkRefresh, miliseconds? is it 5 seconds currently by default?
3366 2011-04-30 22:30:38 <lulzplzkthx> Hm... but isn't it less than that because of the Birthday probability or whatever?
3367 2011-04-30 22:30:40 <BlueMatt> 2^160 being number of possibilities
3368 2011-04-30 22:30:55 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: thats why its x! not just x
3369 2011-04-30 22:31:00 <edcba> "birthday paradox"
3370 2011-04-30 22:31:01 <Diablo-D3> cosurgi: yes, yes.
3371 2011-04-30 22:31:05 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: thx :)
3372 2011-04-30 22:31:16 <lulzplzkthx> oh, okay :P
3373 2011-04-30 22:31:21 <Diablo-D3> wait, maybe its 5 minutes
3374 2011-04-30 22:31:27 * Diablo-D3 cant remember
3375 2011-04-30 22:31:32 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: (I may be completely wrong, but its huge either way)
3376 2011-04-30 22:31:38 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: ok, I'll need to test that :)
3377 2011-04-30 22:31:40 <lulzplzkthx> Okay.
3378 2011-04-30 22:31:45 <Diablo-D3> yeah, its 5000
3379 2011-04-30 22:31:50 <Diablo-D3> so you were right
3380 2011-04-30 22:31:57 <cosurgi> thx
3381 2011-04-30 22:32:02 <edcba> but yes having a collision should be about 2**µ80
3382 2011-04-30 22:32:07 <edcba> 2**80
3383 2011-04-30 22:32:22 <edcba> but that assumes you want any collision
3384 2011-04-30 22:32:29 <edcba> not for a given address
3385 2011-04-30 22:32:49 <BlueMatt> edcba: you will get a collision way before then
3386 2011-04-30 22:33:42 <BlueMatt> edcba: at x! ~= 10^96 you have a 50% chance of a collision, so way before 2^80
3387 2011-04-30 22:34:05 <edcba> wtf is 10^96
3388 2011-04-30 22:34:13 <lulzplzkthx> Jeez, boost takes forever to compile.
3389 2011-04-30 22:34:14 <BlueMatt> edcba: (1/(2^160))^2 * x! = 0.5
3390 2011-04-30 22:34:18 <lulzplzkthx> It's been about an hour now.
3391 2011-04-30 22:34:25 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: tried with -j2?
3392 2011-04-30 22:34:31 <BlueMatt> or more?
3393 2011-04-30 22:34:33 <lulzplzkthx> What's -j2 do? :S
3394 2011-04-30 22:34:37 <lulzplzkthx> No, I just ran it normally.
3395 2011-04-30 22:34:44 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: -j means threads
3396 2011-04-30 22:34:48 <lulzplzkthx> I'm at the point (1 hour) where I think it'd be worse to start over...
3397 2011-04-30 22:34:54 <BlueMatt> true
3398 2011-04-30 22:35:06 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3399 2011-04-30 22:35:12 <lulzplzkthx> ...on 2800th target...
3400 2011-04-30 22:35:31 <BlueMatt> actually I was wrong it should be (1/(2^160))^2 * (x-1)! = 0.5
3401 2011-04-30 22:35:39 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3402 2011-04-30 22:35:40 <BlueMatt> missed the -1
3403 2011-04-30 22:35:48 <BlueMatt> just makes it bigger though
3404 2011-04-30 22:35:50 pigeons has joined
3405 2011-04-30 22:36:02 <lulzplzkthx> heh
3406 2011-04-30 22:37:11 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3407 2011-04-30 22:37:40 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: hey, you do realize my miner internally rejects bad attempts, right?
3408 2011-04-30 22:38:05 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: then I suppose I misunderstand what a rejected block means
3409 2011-04-30 22:38:13 <Diablo-D3> it means bitcoin rejected it
3410 2011-04-30 22:38:20 <BlueMatt> why?
3411 2011-04-30 22:38:21 <kika> Diablo-D3: Driver Packaging version 8.84 catalyst version 11.4 provider ati
3412 2011-04-30 22:38:27 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: stale data, whatever
3413 2011-04-30 22:38:41 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: but you dont know about stale until you try to send it in?
3414 2011-04-30 22:38:53 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: yes
3415 2011-04-30 22:39:05 <BlueMatt> so how does it do that internally?
3416 2011-04-30 22:39:05 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: if there are actual hardware errors, it bitches very loudly
3417 2011-04-30 22:39:19 <Diablo-D3> it only submits blocks that have passed internal testing
3418 2011-04-30 22:39:21 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: I was talking about rejected/stale ones
3419 2011-04-30 22:39:42 <Diablo-D3> kika: you uninstalled the sdk, rebooted, installed 11.4, and rebooted?
3420 2011-04-30 22:39:57 <kika> Diablo-D3:trying to figure out where to uninstall the sdk from
3421 2011-04-30 22:40:05 <Diablo-D3> kika: add/remove programs
3422 2011-04-30 22:40:42 nanotube has joined
3423 2011-04-30 22:41:41 <kika> Diablo-D3: k
3424 2011-04-30 22:41:52 gribble has joined
3425 2011-04-30 22:42:03 <kika> Diablo-D3: AMD APP SDK uninstall, thats it ?
3426 2011-04-30 22:42:07 <Diablo-D3> kika: yes\
3427 2011-04-30 22:42:19 <kika> Diablo-D3: AMD APP SDK Runtime going to install it brb need to reebot
3428 2011-04-30 22:42:32 <kika> *uninstall
3429 2011-04-30 22:42:50 kika has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3430 2011-04-30 22:44:49 zyb_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3431 2011-04-30 22:44:54 skyewm has joined
3432 2011-04-30 22:45:18 <Diablo-D3> well lets see what my new code does
3433 2011-04-30 22:45:36 <cosurgi> Diablo-D3: what you have don?
3434 2011-04-30 22:45:49 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3435 2011-04-30 22:46:14 <Diablo-D3> stuff BlueMatt and UukGoblin wanted
3436 2011-04-30 22:46:37 <cosurgi> I didn't track that
3437 2011-04-30 22:46:43 <cosurgi> nvm can look up
3438 2011-04-30 22:47:12 <BlueMatt> ok final solution: (1/(2^160)) * (x-1)! = 0.5 (forgot there are 2^160 options...stupid me
3439 2011-04-30 22:47:28 <cosurgi> printing rejections?
3440 2011-04-30 22:47:33 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3441 2011-04-30 22:47:33 <BlueMatt> still really fucking huge
3442 2011-04-30 22:48:10 kika has joined
3443 2011-04-30 22:48:10 <Diablo-D3> counting rejections, making the message info() instead of debug()
3444 2011-04-30 22:48:15 <Diablo-D3> and UukGoblin wanted raw hash counting
3445 2011-04-30 22:48:19 <kika> Diablo-D3: i uninstalled the sdk and then rebooted now?
3446 2011-04-30 22:48:25 <cosurgi> 23:13 < UukGoblin> I wanna be able to graph the performance of each device alongside with its clock rate
3447 2011-04-30 22:48:29 <cosurgi> ?
3448 2011-04-30 22:48:39 <cosurgi> I see, ok.
3449 2011-04-30 22:48:57 <Diablo-D3> kika: download 11.4 and install it
3450 2011-04-30 22:49:06 <Diablo-D3> kika: make sure, if you're asked, install the runtime
3451 2011-04-30 22:49:11 <Diablo-D3> kika: Im not sure if 11.4 asks
3452 2011-04-30 22:49:13 <kika> diablo-d3: already have catalyst installed
3453 2011-04-30 22:49:17 <Diablo-D3> kika: do it again
3454 2011-04-30 22:49:20 <Diablo-D3> and then reboot
3455 2011-04-30 22:49:29 <kika> i need to uninstall catalyst
3456 2011-04-30 22:49:33 <kika> and then install it again?
3457 2011-04-30 22:49:35 <Diablo-D3> you dont need to uninstall it
3458 2011-04-30 22:49:38 <Diablo-D3> just install it again
3459 2011-04-30 22:49:53 <kika> okay right not my catalyst version is 11.4 ill just re-install it
3460 2011-04-30 22:49:54 <kika> *now
3461 2011-04-30 22:50:25 <kika> basically ill just run the installeer again
3462 2011-04-30 22:50:44 <kika> that would be okay Diablo-D3 ?
3463 2011-04-30 22:50:56 <Diablo-D3> yes
3464 2011-04-30 22:51:00 <Diablo-D3> just make sure you reboot afterwards
3465 2011-04-30 22:51:06 <kika> k
3466 2011-04-30 22:51:45 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: would it be possible to include a complete openCL with SDK in the diablominer?
3467 2011-04-30 22:51:46 obammaBTC has joined
3468 2011-04-30 22:51:57 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: doesnt make sense
3469 2011-04-30 22:52:01 <devon_hillard> to make the process easier on new people
3470 2011-04-30 22:52:10 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3471 2011-04-30 22:52:13 <Diablo-D3> nvidia includes theirs with their driver
3472 2011-04-30 22:52:17 <devon_hillard> like, poclbm doesn't have these extra dependencies
3473 2011-04-30 22:52:26 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: yes it does
3474 2011-04-30 22:52:35 <Diablo-D3> ALL opencl programs require a working opencl impl
3475 2011-04-30 22:52:37 lulzplzkthx has left ()
3476 2011-04-30 22:52:58 <kika> Diablo-D3: i just ran the installed and it finished, now ill just reboot, okay ?
3477 2011-04-30 22:53:03 <kika> *installer
3478 2011-04-30 22:53:46 <Diablo-D3> kika: yes
3479 2011-04-30 22:53:51 <kika> Diablo-D3: ok thxs brb
3480 2011-04-30 22:53:58 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: nvidia includes their opencl runtime on their drivers on windows and linux
3481 2011-04-30 22:54:03 lulzplzkthx has joined
3482 2011-04-30 22:54:12 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: AMD does on all default installs on 11.4
3483 2011-04-30 22:54:25 mologie2 is now known as mologie
3484 2011-04-30 22:54:26 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: and linux you need to match the right sdk to the right hardware for optimum performance
3485 2011-04-30 22:54:32 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
3486 2011-04-30 22:54:37 mologie has joined
3487 2011-04-30 22:54:37 mologie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3488 2011-04-30 22:54:49 mologie has joined
3489 2011-04-30 22:54:56 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: shipping the sdk makes no sense as it'd make the installer, oh, about 500mb in size.
3490 2011-04-30 22:55:22 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt, UukGoblin: hey
3491 2011-04-30 22:55:29 <Diablo-D3> somebody double check my math
3492 2011-04-30 22:55:34 <Diablo-D3> if Im running at 75mhash/sec
3493 2011-04-30 22:55:35 <BlueMatt> what math?
3494 2011-04-30 22:55:42 <Diablo-D3> how many minutes does it take me to get to 25 ghash
3495 2011-04-30 22:55:56 <JFK911> 25000/75
3496 2011-04-30 22:56:07 <BlueMatt> ^ seconds
3497 2011-04-30 22:56:16 <JFK911> ok /60
3498 2011-04-30 22:56:36 <cosurgi> ok, must sleep. will continue later. cya
3499 2011-04-30 22:56:36 <JFK911> good catch matt
3500 2011-04-30 22:56:51 <BlueMatt> gn cosurgi
3501 2011-04-30 22:56:54 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: it looks like a dependency hell, though
3502 2011-04-30 22:56:56 <Diablo-D3> wait, why 25000 / 75?
3503 2011-04-30 22:57:01 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: it is.
3504 2011-04-30 22:57:06 <Diablo-D3> GL was the same way 10 years ago
3505 2011-04-30 22:57:08 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: the API shouldn't change from SDK versions, should it?
3506 2011-04-30 22:57:15 <Diablo-D3> remember how all those fucks scrambled to get quakeworld running?
3507 2011-04-30 22:57:19 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: 75 mhash/sec * x seconds = total hash
3508 2011-04-30 22:57:30 <Diablo-D3> no, why is it 25000/75 and not 75000/25?
3509 2011-04-30 22:57:35 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: total hash / mhash/sec = time
3510 2011-04-30 22:57:40 obammaBTC has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3511 2011-04-30 22:57:44 kika_ has joined
3512 2011-04-30 22:57:47 <lulzplzkthx> BlueMatt: Maybe I should have restart with -j4
3513 2011-04-30 22:57:54 <kika_> Diablo-D3: should i run diablominer now?
3514 2011-04-30 22:57:54 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: how do I use AMD SDK on nvidia, hrm?
3515 2011-04-30 22:57:57 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: how many targets are you at?
3516 2011-04-30 22:57:59 <lulzplzkthx> s/restart/restarted/
3517 2011-04-30 22:58:01 <kika_> Diablo-D3: do i need to check anything else?
3518 2011-04-30 22:58:05 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: the SDK is part of the driver, its not something thats cross platform
3519 2011-04-30 22:58:07 <kika_> Diablo-D3: im on windows 7
3520 2011-04-30 22:58:11 <lulzplzkthx> not sure
3521 2011-04-30 22:58:12 <Diablo-D3> kika_: no, try again
3522 2011-04-30 22:58:12 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: ouch, might take a while
3523 2011-04-30 22:58:17 <lulzplzkthx> about 15 mins ago was 2800th target
3524 2011-04-30 22:58:24 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: no, I mean the incompatibility between the AMD drivers
3525 2011-04-30 22:58:27 <kika_> Diablo-D3: ok, so i will try again to run diablominer, right
3526 2011-04-30 22:58:32 <Diablo-D3> so, 5 minutes to 25 ghash?
3527 2011-04-30 22:58:35 <Diablo-D3> kika_: yes
3528 2011-04-30 22:58:37 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: like the latest AMD drivers broke diablominer
3529 2011-04-30 22:58:52 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: sdk 2.4, the optimum for 6xxx, requires 11.1 up
3530 2011-04-30 22:58:54 <lulzplzkthx> BlueMatt: you know how many targets there are?
3531 2011-04-30 22:58:55 <kika_> i have the latest 6990 ati drivers
3532 2011-04-30 22:59:00 <kika_> installed btw Diablo-D3
3533 2011-04-30 22:59:07 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: it was too confusing and then poclbm just worked
3534 2011-04-30 22:59:09 kika has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3535 2011-04-30 22:59:13 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: on windows, 11.2 and .3 ship with opencl runtime optional installers, which you CANNOT install the sdk on top of or it fucks up
3536 2011-04-30 22:59:23 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: 11.4 installs it automatically
3537 2011-04-30 22:59:29 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: not exactly, somewhere between 8000 and 10 000
3538 2011-04-30 22:59:39 <lulzplzkthx> Fuck.
3539 2011-04-30 22:59:41 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: I think it depends on the os
3540 2011-04-30 22:59:42 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: on linux, you want 2.1 on 5xxx and actually hold your driver back
3541 2011-04-30 22:59:44 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: AND
3542 2011-04-30 22:59:45 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: AND
3543 2011-04-30 22:59:52 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: osx is apparently ~8200
3544 2011-04-30 22:59:53 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: you cant use the linux sdk on windows and vice versa
3545 2011-04-30 23:00:00 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: and btw, poclbm is just as hard
3546 2011-04-30 23:00:14 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: it has nothing to do with mining, it has to do with opencl
3547 2011-04-30 23:00:22 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: ANY opencl program has to deal with this shit
3548 2011-04-30 23:00:37 <kika_> Diablo-D3: its saying no openCL platforms found
3549 2011-04-30 23:00:45 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: I mean, the same SDK version broke diablominer, but then poclbm worked with no further modifications
3550 2011-04-30 23:01:09 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: which SDK and catalyst combination on what OS?
3551 2011-04-30 23:01:17 Lachesis has joined
3552 2011-04-30 23:01:18 <kika_> Diablo-D3: so basically it doesnt work not :/
3553 2011-04-30 23:01:23 <kika_> *now
3554 2011-04-30 23:01:24 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: because if poclbm works and mine doesnt, thats a bug in my miner
3555 2011-04-30 23:01:28 theymos has joined
3556 2011-04-30 23:01:45 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: unless it happens deep in the driver, then its still a driver bug
3557 2011-04-30 23:01:48 <kika_> Diablo-D3: how i can solve the no OpenCL platforms issue?
3558 2011-04-30 23:01:54 jargon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3559 2011-04-30 23:01:56 <Diablo-D3> kika_: are you sure you installed the 11.4 that has the runtime?
3560 2011-04-30 23:02:25 <kika_> yes
3561 2011-04-30 23:02:35 <kika_> it said it installed runtime and also card drivers
3562 2011-04-30 23:02:35 <Diablo-D3> did it ask you if you wanted to install it?
3563 2011-04-30 23:02:39 <Dudley> how can i tell if bitcoind is runnning on all four cores?
3564 2011-04-30 23:02:42 <Dudley> linux cli
3565 2011-04-30 23:03:01 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: use the json api, issue getwork command
3566 2011-04-30 23:03:15 <echelon> what happened to mtgox?
3567 2011-04-30 23:03:23 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: one of the entries says cores, it should say 0
3568 2011-04-30 23:03:31 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3569 2011-04-30 23:03:36 <BlueMatt> echelon: its been down+up for a while now
3570 2011-04-30 23:03:44 <Dudley> hmm
3571 2011-04-30 23:03:46 <kika_> Diablo-D3: what if i uninstall catalyst and re-install it ? ( i unintall the runtime and everything )
3572 2011-04-30 23:03:50 <Dudley> mine doesnt
3573 2011-04-30 23:03:52 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: Ati Stream SDK 2.2.0.0, catalyst 10.10, windows 7
3574 2011-04-30 23:03:54 <Dudley> {
3575 2011-04-30 23:03:54 <Dudley> "midstate" : "9b2f6081c92e1190bf93e2d362aeb24510af0c7aa4476c73b11611dadd0fccb0",
3576 2011-04-30 23:03:57 <Dudley> "data" : "0000000101752284e71f5e242572a4f946469288a379d4e8ee3c6a4a000007cd00000000b86a2fca3ebdd6ef078f65e7d9ab72203571e4569bc16c17669fef97eec69d794dbc942a1b0098fa00000000000000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000",
3577 2011-04-30 23:04:01 <Dudley> "hash1" : "00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000008000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000",
3578 2011-04-30 23:04:05 <Dudley> "target" : "000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000fa98000000000000"
3579 2011-04-30 23:04:08 <Dudley> }
3580 2011-04-30 23:04:57 <lulzplzkthx> 4300th target BlueMatt
3581 2011-04-30 23:05:00 <lulzplzkthx> god damn.
3582 2011-04-30 23:05:22 toffoo has joined
3583 2011-04-30 23:06:37 <lulzplzkthx> done!
3584 2011-04-30 23:06:45 <lulzplzkthx> ...failed updating 12 targets...
3585 2011-04-30 23:06:45 <lulzplzkthx> ...skipped 40 targets...
3586 2011-04-30 23:06:46 <lulzplzkthx> ...updated 4357 targets...
3587 2011-04-30 23:06:51 <lulzplzkthx> BlueMatt: ^ for future reference
3588 2011-04-30 23:07:05 <lulzplzkthx> win7 32-bit
3589 2011-04-30 23:07:21 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: hm, odd mac has a ton more (and I think linux does as well IIRC)
3590 2011-04-30 23:08:32 <devon_hillard> Dudley: you can check CPU utilization on each core before and after the miner program is running
3591 2011-04-30 23:09:00 <Dudley> yup
3592 2011-04-30 23:09:05 <Dudley> using 400%
3593 2011-04-30 23:09:32 <devon_hillard> so why not use a dinky GPU?
3594 2011-04-30 23:09:48 <devon_hillard> CPU mining is wasteful
3595 2011-04-30 23:10:13 <devon_hillard> gets worse if you overclock
3596 2011-04-30 23:10:49 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3597 2011-04-30 23:10:51 <Dudley> the short of it is
3598 2011-04-30 23:11:13 <Dudley> servers that i dont pay electricity for
3599 2011-04-30 23:11:27 <rlifchitz> is mtgox down?
3600 2011-04-30 23:11:31 <Dudley> that would go unused otherwise, but i have to keep around
3601 2011-04-30 23:12:03 <Dudley> deving btc tools
3602 2011-04-30 23:12:28 <Diablo-D3> [06:59:20] <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: Ati Stream SDK 2.2.0.0, catalyst 10.10, windows 7
3603 2011-04-30 23:12:30 <Diablo-D3> do NOT use 2.2
3604 2011-04-30 23:12:34 <Diablo-D3> 2.2 and 2.3 ARE broken
3605 2011-04-30 23:12:36 <Diablo-D3> for all opencl apps
3606 2011-04-30 23:12:40 <Diablo-D3> use 2.1
3607 2011-04-30 23:12:44 <devon_hillard> ah, I see
3608 2011-04-30 23:12:52 <[Tycho]> 2.2 is very nice
3609 2011-04-30 23:13:01 <JFK911> 2.2 works ok on windoze
3610 2011-04-30 23:13:01 <Diablo-D3> 2.2 and 2.3 use insane amounts of CPU usage and also randomly crash
3611 2011-04-30 23:13:12 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: or just uninstall the SDK and install catalyst 11.4 ?
3612 2011-04-30 23:13:14 <Diablo-D3> mine happens to cause crashes more frequently, but its inside the SDK
3613 2011-04-30 23:13:19 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: what hardware?
3614 2011-04-30 23:13:30 <JFK911> i mentioned my poclbm hogging cpu before on my windoze 7 box. it doesnt do that on xp
3615 2011-04-30 23:13:30 <[Tycho]> I tried 2.1 initially, but no luck. And with 2.2 everything is fine with 0% CPU load.
3616 2011-04-30 23:13:35 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: HD 5570
3617 2011-04-30 23:13:39 bitcoiner has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3618 2011-04-30 23:13:40 <[Tycho]> (on Windows, of course)
3619 2011-04-30 23:13:43 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: install sdk 2.1
3620 2011-04-30 23:13:53 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: 2.1 is faster on 5xxx than anything else
3621 2011-04-30 23:14:36 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: and if it was something like 6670?
3622 2011-04-30 23:15:40 TD has joined
3623 2011-04-30 23:16:07 <devon_hillard> 6570 and 6670 are the new budget 6xxx cards
3624 2011-04-30 23:16:46 <kika_> Diablo-D3: so i need to install an SDK ?
3625 2011-04-30 23:17:10 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: but you need 10.9 through 10.11 for optimum performance
3626 2011-04-30 23:17:12 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3627 2011-04-30 23:17:22 <Diablo-D3> devon_hillard: with 6xxx, its 11.4 without the sdk
3628 2011-04-30 23:17:26 <Diablo-D3> kika_: no
3629 2011-04-30 23:17:32 <Diablo-D3> kika_: Im not sure why its not working for you
3630 2011-04-30 23:17:42 <kika_> Diablo-D3: ok im going to uninstall the whole catalyst thing right now
3631 2011-04-30 23:17:44 <devon_hillard> Diablo-D3: thanks
3632 2011-04-30 23:18:39 AStove has quit ()
3633 2011-04-30 23:18:55 <Dudley> How can I join my bitcoind instance into a pool?
3634 2011-04-30 23:19:45 <jrabbit> you use a miner client.
3635 2011-04-30 23:19:55 <jrabbit> you still run bitcoind just without generate on
3636 2011-04-30 23:20:26 <Dudley> So, would bitcoind be a receiver or something?
3637 2011-04-30 23:22:57 boaz has joined
3638 2011-04-30 23:23:02 lulzplzkthx has joined
3639 2011-04-30 23:23:05 kika_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3640 2011-04-30 23:26:07 an20 has joined
3641 2011-04-30 23:27:15 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: you cant
3642 2011-04-30 23:27:58 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: bitcoind cant getworks from another source
3643 2011-04-30 23:28:08 <Diablo-D3> if you want to cpumine, which I suggest you dont, use a cpu miner
3644 2011-04-30 23:28:31 <Dudley> Free electricity. Cost doesn't budge. Experience.
3645 2011-04-30 23:28:37 <Dudley> Stop telling me not to.
3646 2011-04-30 23:29:04 <Diablo-D3> then if you want to pool mine, do it correctly
3647 2011-04-30 23:29:08 <Tril> defining USE_UPNP:=0 didn't have the intended effect..commented it out.
3648 2011-04-30 23:29:25 <Dudley> What is the correct way?
3649 2011-04-30 23:29:31 <Diablo-D3> use a cpu miner.
3650 2011-04-30 23:29:45 gribble has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3651 2011-04-30 23:29:50 <Dudley> Know of any off the top of your head?
3652 2011-04-30 23:30:08 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3653 2011-04-30 23:30:23 <Diablo-D3> check the forums
3654 2011-04-30 23:30:32 <Diablo-D3> theres like 2 now
3655 2011-04-30 23:31:17 gribble has joined
3656 2011-04-30 23:31:28 <ArtForzZz> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cpu+miner+site%3Abitcoin.org&l=1
3657 2011-04-30 23:31:43 ahbritto has joined
3658 2011-04-30 23:31:44 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
3659 2011-04-30 23:32:42 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
3660 2011-04-30 23:32:42 nanotube has joined
3661 2011-04-30 23:34:17 DeviledMoon has joined
3662 2011-04-30 23:34:48 kika has joined
3663 2011-04-30 23:35:09 <kika> Diablo-D3: so basically right now i uninstalled the whole catalyst drivers and the 6990 ati card drivers
3664 2011-04-30 23:35:27 <kika> Diablo-D3: i see this catalyst 11.4 installer i has doesnt say anything about a runtime ?
3665 2011-04-30 23:36:18 <kika> Diablo-D3: it says... Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributable, thats the runtime you are talking about
3666 2011-04-30 23:36:19 <kika> ?
3667 2011-04-30 23:36:35 <ArtForz> no, just get "catalyst 11.4" and not "catalyst 11.4 with app removed"
3668 2011-04-30 23:36:52 <kika> ArtForz: yes i think i downloaded that one, let me check
3669 2011-04-30 23:38:03 <ArtForz> install that, check with gpu caps viewer if you got opencl support (you should)
3670 2011-04-30 23:38:12 <Diablo-D3> kika: opencl runtime
3671 2011-04-30 23:38:13 <kika> ArtForz: yes i have that one.. http://sites.amd.com/us/game/downloads/Pages/radeon_win7-32.aspx
3672 2011-04-30 23:38:16 <Diablo-D3> yeah what art said
3673 2011-04-30 23:38:27 <Tril> I've got a tx stuck as 0/unconfirmed even after rescan. It's confirmed by the network though.
3674 2011-04-30 23:38:28 <kika> ArtForz: i have the "Catalyst Software Suite" listed there
3675 2011-04-30 23:38:39 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: are you sure its that one and not the one with app removed?
3676 2011-04-30 23:38:41 <Diablo-D3> errr
3677 2011-04-30 23:38:45 <Diablo-D3> kika: are you sure its that one and not the one with app removed?
3678 2011-04-30 23:38:51 bitcoiner has joined
3679 2011-04-30 23:39:12 <kika> Diablo-D3: yup, my filename is 11-4_vista32_win7_32_dd_ccc_ocl.exe
3680 2011-04-30 23:39:18 <kika> that matches the download link there exactly
3681 2011-04-30 23:39:23 <ArtForz> yep, should be good
3682 2011-04-30 23:39:51 <Diablo-D3> well wtf
3683 2011-04-30 23:40:00 <Diablo-D3> kika: and you rebooted after install?
3684 2011-04-30 23:40:09 <kika> Diablo-D3: when i run the installed, i need to choose custom install or i need to go with the express install?
3685 2011-04-30 23:40:16 <Diablo-D3> express install
3686 2011-04-30 23:40:23 <kika> Diablo-D3: okay let me try that and reebot
3687 2011-04-30 23:40:24 <kika> brb
3688 2011-04-30 23:40:40 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: btw, are 6990 hoarked?
3689 2011-04-30 23:40:48 <ArtForz> ?
3690 2011-04-30 23:40:55 <kika> Diablo-D3: wait, the express install i tried and it installs the SDK
3691 2011-04-30 23:41:06 <Diablo-D3> kika: it installs it from the driver, not from an outside source
3692 2011-04-30 23:41:10 <Diablo-D3> kika: this is what you want
3693 2011-04-30 23:41:24 <kika> Diablo-D3: thats what i did it initially
3694 2011-04-30 23:41:25 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: a lot of 6990 users are bitching about very low mhash on windows
3695 2011-04-30 23:41:25 DeviledMoon has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3696 2011-04-30 23:41:28 <Diablo-D3> kika: =|
3697 2011-04-30 23:41:34 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: kika is one of them
3698 2011-04-30 23:41:38 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: it doesnt seem to be tied to a miner
3699 2011-04-30 23:41:40 <kika> Diablo-D3: but diablominer worked very slow so you told me to remove it
3700 2011-04-30 23:41:42 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: and both gpus show up
3701 2011-04-30 23:41:46 <kika> the sdk
3702 2011-04-30 23:41:52 <ArtForz> huh. weird.
3703 2011-04-30 23:42:02 <Diablo-D3> kika: well, that must be new, it didnt use to list the sdk after cat install that installed the runtime
3704 2011-04-30 23:42:10 <kika> but after i removed only the sdk it said the no opencl platforms thing
3705 2011-04-30 23:42:18 B0g4r7 has quit (Quit: brb)
3706 2011-04-30 23:42:36 <kika> Diablo-D3: let me try the express install brb
3707 2011-04-30 23:43:11 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: kika is getting like 160 instead of 600
3708 2011-04-30 23:43:17 <kika> 200mhash
3709 2011-04-30 23:43:22 <kika> really its weird
3710 2011-04-30 23:43:22 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: but I dont understand why its listing both GPUs
3711 2011-04-30 23:43:23 <kika> because
3712 2011-04-30 23:43:24 <kika> it says
3713 2011-04-30 23:43:27 <kika> 200000khash
3714 2011-04-30 23:43:30 <kika> instead of say 200mhash
3715 2011-04-30 23:43:36 <Diablo-D3> kika: my miner lists in khash
3716 2011-04-30 23:43:48 <kika> Diablo-D3: guiminer lists the two gpus
3717 2011-04-30 23:43:57 <ArtForz> does it work properly with only one device selected?
3718 2011-04-30 23:44:08 <kika> Diablo-D3: your miner told it found 2 devices with each device has a fixed number of CU's
3719 2011-04-30 23:44:12 <kika> or someting like that
3720 2011-04-30 23:44:25 <Diablo-D3> kika: yeah, and my miner is only saying like 200 mhash, right?
3721 2011-04-30 23:44:28 <Diablo-D3> thats absurdly low
3722 2011-04-30 23:44:33 <kika> yes
3723 2011-04-30 23:44:33 <ArtForz> way too low
3724 2011-04-30 23:44:38 <kika> it says 200000khash
3725 2011-04-30 23:44:46 <Diablo-D3> something is seriously wrong with the driver
3726 2011-04-30 23:44:50 <kika> brb ill reebot
3727 2011-04-30 23:44:53 bitcoinbulletin has joined
3728 2011-04-30 23:44:56 <ArtForz> 6990 should be ~2*300Mhash
3729 2011-04-30 23:45:01 <kika> i just installed the express catalyst 11.4
3730 2011-04-30 23:45:34 B0g4r7 has joined
3731 2011-04-30 23:45:41 boaz has quit (Quit: boaz)
3732 2011-04-30 23:45:50 <gasteve> anyone mining with 6990 under linux?
3733 2011-04-30 23:45:57 <Diablo-D3> not this shit again
3734 2011-04-30 23:46:01 <mrb_> gasteve: yes
3735 2011-04-30 23:46:02 <Diablo-D3> gasteve: let me guess, low mhash?
3736 2011-04-30 23:46:03 wolfspraul has joined
3737 2011-04-30 23:47:08 <B0g4r7> Sounds like a channel FAQ is in order.
3738 2011-04-30 23:47:43 <Diablo-D3> Q: Is Diablo eternally angry?
3739 2011-04-30 23:47:48 <Diablo-D3> A: Yes. Dont ask him questions.
3740 2011-04-30 23:47:58 <gjs278> Not even hell can save you from me
3741 2011-04-30 23:48:01 <gjs278> am I right or am I right
3742 2011-04-30 23:48:16 <Diablo-D3> you're wrong.
3743 2011-04-30 23:48:22 * Diablo-D3 slams the door shut.
3744 2011-04-30 23:48:27 <gjs278> you're right
3745 2011-04-30 23:48:34 <gjs278> because it's not even death can save you from me
3746 2011-04-30 23:48:35 <gjs278> not hell
3747 2011-04-30 23:48:46 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3748 2011-04-30 23:48:48 kika_ has joined
3749 2011-04-30 23:48:55 <gjs278> what the fuck
3750 2011-04-30 23:48:57 <kika_> Diablo-D3: it says it added 2 caymans
3751 2011-04-30 23:49:03 <mrb_> gjs278: mtgox is down
3752 2011-04-30 23:49:06 <gjs278> the guy handling all of the money can't keep his site up?
3753 2011-04-30 23:49:09 <Diablo-D3> kika_: what speed?
3754 2011-04-30 23:49:11 edcba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3755 2011-04-30 23:49:12 <kika_> Diablo-D3: 24 CU, local work size
3756 2011-04-30 23:49:13 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.15,"low":2.75,"vol":65448,"buy":3.5,"sell":3.57,"last":3.5}}
3757 2011-04-30 23:49:17 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: I assume his provider shit itself
3758 2011-04-30 23:49:19 <kika_> 230000 Khash
3759 2011-04-30 23:49:20 <gjs278> nevermind
3760 2011-04-30 23:49:21 <gjs278> he's up
3761 2011-04-30 23:49:22 <mrb_> probably too much trading activity in the last few hours
3762 2011-04-30 23:49:23 <gjs278> just slow as hell
3763 2011-04-30 23:49:26 <kika_> using btcmine.com
3764 2011-04-30 23:49:27 <Diablo-D3> its up and down
3765 2011-04-30 23:49:37 <Diablo-D3> I suspect his ISP is just having backbone problems
3766 2011-04-30 23:49:39 <gjs278> my point is he's been taking enough of a cut to get something a little more reliable
3767 2011-04-30 23:49:40 <kika_> Diablo-D3: maybe its btcmine problem ?
3768 2011-04-30 23:49:40 <Diablo-D3> it happens, you cant stop it
3769 2011-04-30 23:49:43 <gjs278> yeah
3770 2011-04-30 23:49:46 <Diablo-D3> he should switch to RX
3771 2011-04-30 23:50:01 <Diablo-D3> kika_: no, its opencl problem
3772 2011-04-30 23:50:05 kika has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3773 2011-04-30 23:50:08 <Diablo-D3> kika_: it'd be a miner problem if ONE miner does it
3774 2011-04-30 23:50:11 <kika_> Diablo-D3: ok, weird, do you know how i can solve this?
3775 2011-04-30 23:50:13 <Dudley> Say I wanted to build a bitcoin exchange. What would I have to do?
3776 2011-04-30 23:50:22 <Diablo-D3> kika_: you cant fix it, you have to wait for AMD to do it
3777 2011-04-30 23:50:26 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: lrn2code
3778 2011-04-30 23:50:34 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: also, be prepared to be raided by the feds
3779 2011-04-30 23:50:41 <gjs278> yeah
3780 2011-04-30 23:50:52 <kika_> Diablo-D3: what if i install an older driver?
3781 2011-04-30 23:50:54 <Diablo-D3> I do a lot for bitcoin, but thats one thing I wont fucking touch
3782 2011-04-30 23:50:56 kermit has joined
3783 2011-04-30 23:50:59 <Diablo-D3> kika_: then you lose 6990 support
3784 2011-04-30 23:51:03 <Dudley> I code in PHP Objective-C and build sites in HTML5/CSS3 daily.
3785 2011-04-30 23:51:05 <Dudley> I can code.
3786 2011-04-30 23:51:10 <gjs278> lol
3787 2011-04-30 23:51:10 <kika_> Diablo-D3: i dont mind about 6990 support
3788 2011-04-30 23:51:12 <gjs278> can you fight
3789 2011-04-30 23:51:16 <gjs278> because you're going to have to fight
3790 2011-04-30 23:51:18 <gjs278> other prisoners
3791 2011-04-30 23:51:21 <Diablo-D3> kika_: try using linux
3792 2011-04-30 23:51:23 <kika_> Diablo-D3: it would work for me if i downgrade drivers?
3793 2011-04-30 23:51:30 <lulzplzkthx> Hmm...
3794 2011-04-30 23:51:31 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: if all you know is php, you cant code shit
3795 2011-04-30 23:51:32 <Dudley> I can make a shiv easy enough
3796 2011-04-30 23:51:37 <lulzplzkthx> What's the thing to clean a make?
3797 2011-04-30 23:51:38 <Diablo-D3> kika_: I doubt it.
3798 2011-04-30 23:51:39 <Dudley> :|
3799 2011-04-30 23:51:40 <gjs278> well to be fair
3800 2011-04-30 23:51:43 <gjs278> an excahnge isnt hard to make
3801 2011-04-30 23:51:45 <Dudley> Do you know what Objective-C is?
3802 2011-04-30 23:51:46 <gjs278> he could do it with php
3803 2011-04-30 23:51:48 <kika_> Diablo-D3: do you know any pendrive linux distro i can use just for this?
3804 2011-04-30 23:51:49 <lulzplzkthx> it's like make --clean, or make --wipe
3805 2011-04-30 23:51:54 <devon_hillard> Can you fit a GPU in a kind of USB form factor? That is, the USB interface should be fast enough to send workloads to a GPU, while the memory bandwidth doesn't matter that much
3806 2011-04-30 23:51:55 <gjs278> and then make that iphone app with ob-c
3807 2011-04-30 23:51:56 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: yes, I was doing objc before apple took it up
3808 2011-04-30 23:51:59 DeviledMoon has joined
3809 2011-04-30 23:52:11 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: the whole "objc 2.0" shit apple did was retarded
3810 2011-04-30 23:52:15 <Diablo-D3> nextstep was fine the way it was
3811 2011-04-30 23:52:22 <devon_hillard> of course, with external power supply
3812 2011-04-30 23:52:25 <Diablo-D3> fuck osx and fuck apple users
3813 2011-04-30 23:52:28 <lulzplzkthx> fuu there is no make clean
3814 2011-04-30 23:52:32 <Dudley> I know VB, C, Objective C, javascript, and Ruby on Rails.
3815 2011-04-30 23:52:40 <Diablo-D3> lol RoR
3816 2011-04-30 23:52:41 <Diablo-D3> epic fail
3817 2011-04-30 23:52:43 <Diablo-D3> go learn java
3818 2011-04-30 23:52:46 <Dudley> I know how to program.
3819 2011-04-30 23:53:01 <Dudley> Java is the worst language ever written.
3820 2011-04-30 23:53:03 <lulzplzkthx> hahaha RoR
3821 2011-04-30 23:53:06 <lulzplzkthx> Dudley: +
3822 2011-04-30 23:53:06 <Dudley> You go learn Java.
3823 2011-04-30 23:53:07 <lulzplzkthx> +1
3824 2011-04-30 23:53:14 <Diablo-D3> I already know Java.
3825 2011-04-30 23:53:22 <Dudley> Then I feel even more sorry for you.
3826 2011-04-30 23:53:22 <lulzplzkthx> Diablo-D3 is obsessed with Java.
3827 2011-04-30 23:53:27 <lulzplzkthx> Don't even argue with him.
3828 2011-04-30 23:53:28 <Diablo-D3> why would anyone write stuff in ruby or php?
3829 2011-04-30 23:53:29 <Diablo-D3> thats insane
3830 2011-04-30 23:53:43 <Diablo-D3> its slow as fuck, bloated, difficult to use, and there is very little third party frameworks written for it
3831 2011-04-30 23:53:53 <lulzplzkthx> Java is bloated.
3832 2011-04-30 23:53:54 <Dudley> You have no idea what you are talking about.
3833 2011-04-30 23:53:57 <devon_hillard> java was never meant to do things like JNI or GPGPU, but somehow they strapped it on
3834 2011-04-30 23:53:59 <kika_> Diablo-D3: mrb's hdminer seeems to work at 700 Mhash for my card it says on the forum why?
3835 2011-04-30 23:54:00 <lulzplzkthx> And there are many third-party frameworks.
3836 2011-04-30 23:54:03 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: Ive been coding for over a decade.
3837 2011-04-30 23:54:09 <Diablo-D3> Dudley: are you SURE you want to argue with me?
3838 2011-04-30 23:54:13 <lulzplzkthx> They are slow, I give you that.
3839 2011-04-30 23:54:14 <Dudley> Clearly you've been doing it in a closed circle.
3840 2011-04-30 23:54:15 <gasteve> I was asking about 6990s on Linux because I might have an easier time getting them than 5970s
3841 2011-04-30 23:54:16 <Diablo-D3> kika_: try it yourself.
3842 2011-04-30 23:54:25 <lulzplzkthx> But don't tell me Java isn't.
3843 2011-04-30 23:54:27 <Diablo-D3> gasteve: should work fine in linux, but you need sdk 2.4
3844 2011-04-30 23:54:30 <lulzplzkthx> And don't tell me Java isn't a resource whore.
3845 2011-04-30 23:54:36 <kika_> Diablo-D3: do you know where i can get hdminer for free?
3846 2011-04-30 23:54:37 <Diablo-D3> lulzplzkthx: it isnt.
3847 2011-04-30 23:54:41 <Diablo-D3> kika_: no.
3848 2011-04-30 23:54:43 <gasteve> Diablo-D3: and you get good hash rates?
3849 2011-04-30 23:54:43 <lulzplzkthx> respect--
3850 2011-04-30 23:54:48 <Diablo-D3> gasteve: I dont have one
3851 2011-04-30 23:54:57 <Diablo-D3> gasteve: sdk 2.4 on 5xxx kills about 15% of your performance
3852 2011-04-30 23:54:58 <kika_> what would be for me the fastest way to mine on my 6990 then ?
3853 2011-04-30 23:55:08 <Diablo-D3> gasteve: but 6990's power over 5970 makes up for it
3854 2011-04-30 23:55:11 <Dudley> So, like we were saying
3855 2011-04-30 23:55:18 <Dudley> It wouldn't be hard to create an exchange, then.
3856 2011-04-30 23:55:19 <kika_> i just bought it just for mining
3857 2011-04-30 23:55:21 <Diablo-D3> gasteve: so you end up with roughly the same speed, but less watt efficiency
3858 2011-04-30 23:55:22 <gasteve> ok...thanks
3859 2011-04-30 23:55:38 <kika_> and now i need to pay it using mining i tought it was going to mine at 700Mhash as the wiki says
3860 2011-04-30 23:55:39 <kika_> weird
3861 2011-04-30 23:55:43 <kika_> i got a big problem now
3862 2011-04-30 23:55:43 <kika_> :S
3863 2011-04-30 23:55:47 <gasteve> it seems to be exceedingly difficult to find 5970s
3864 2011-04-30 23:55:50 <Diablo-D3> kika_: most likely, his fails too
3865 2011-04-30 23:55:55 <Diablo-D3> kika_: not all 6990 users are having problems
3866 2011-04-30 23:55:59 <Diablo-D3> kika_: and I cant figure out why
3867 2011-04-30 23:56:07 <Diablo-D3> kika_: linux users dont seem to have any problems with 6990
3868 2011-04-30 23:56:11 Cusipzzz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3869 2011-04-30 23:56:15 <kika_> Diablo-D3: my manufactuer is xfx
3870 2011-04-30 23:56:21 <Diablo-D3> its not a manufacturer issue.
3871 2011-04-30 23:56:34 <Diablo-D3> plus, 6990s are only made by AMD (through, I believe, Sapphire)
3872 2011-04-30 23:56:41 <Diablo-D3> the rest of the oems just slap their name on it
3873 2011-04-30 23:56:45 <Diablo-D3> they dont fab the product
3874 2011-04-30 23:56:58 <kika_> i see
3875 2011-04-30 23:57:05 Cusipzzz has joined
3876 2011-04-30 23:57:26 <kika_> so there is no way to run a linux box from my windows box to do this right
3877 2011-04-30 23:57:50 <lulzplzkthx> this doesn't sound right...
3878 2011-04-30 23:57:51 <lulzplzkthx> ui.cpp:1806: error: 'FormatVersion' was not declared in this scope
3879 2011-04-30 23:57:51 <Diablo-D3> kika_: yes, you can get rid of windows and convert forever
3880 2011-04-30 23:57:59 <lulzplzkthx> :\
3881 2011-04-30 23:58:04 <Diablo-D3> lulzplzkthx: ATTTAAAAAAAAAACK OF THE KILLER TOMMMAATTTOOOOOS
3882 2011-04-30 23:58:09 <lulzplzkthx> o.o
3883 2011-04-30 23:58:12 <kika_> Diablo-D3: yes i know off course linux is cool, however this is my brother pc he doesnt understand linux
3884 2011-04-30 23:58:16 * lulzplzkthx hides.
3885 2011-04-30 23:58:26 <Dudley> kika, you mean running linux in a VM?
3886 2011-04-30 23:58:30 <kika_> Diablo-D3: he wants to play games
3887 2011-04-30 23:58:44 <Diablo-D3> I play games in Linux :<
3888 2011-04-30 23:58:51 <kika_> Dudley: yes and to make the linux vm to get the opencl interface from the win machine
3889 2011-04-30 23:58:58 <Dudley> Again Diablo
3890 2011-04-30 23:59:04 <Dudley> I am so sorry you have to be subjected to that.
3891 2011-04-30 23:59:11 <Diablo-D3> whatever.
3892 2011-04-30 23:59:16 <Dudley> hahah
3893 2011-04-30 23:59:31 <Dudley> What do you play?
3894 2011-04-30 23:59:39 <Diablo-D3> seriously though, why the fuck do people hate on java based on 5 minutes of shit they did like 5 years ago
3895 2011-04-30 23:59:51 <Dudley> Because it's a nightmare.