1 2011-05-07 00:03:08 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
   2 2011-05-07 00:04:58 <phantomcircuit> LightRider, you have to have a powered usb hub though...
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   9 2011-05-07 00:09:41 <diki> so, anyone know how to compile jgarzik's pool?
  10 2011-05-07 00:09:46 <diki> ./configure doesnt work....
  11 2011-05-07 00:11:22 <phantomcircuit> do you get an error?
  12 2011-05-07 00:11:28 <io_error> Worked fine for me, but see my pull request
  13 2011-05-07 00:11:44 <io_error> if you're on ubuntu
  14 2011-05-07 00:11:53 <diki> yes i am
  15 2011-05-07 00:12:04 <diki> i see no such file or directory when i do ./configure
  16 2011-05-07 00:12:12 <diki> i even downloaded and installed autoconf
  17 2011-05-07 00:12:26 <io_error> https://github.com/jgarzik/pushpool/pull/17
  18 2011-05-07 00:12:58 <phantomcircuit> diki, paste the full error
  19 2011-05-07 00:13:38 <diki> Since i am running on a virtual machine
  20 2011-05-07 00:13:40 <diki> i cant paste it
  21 2011-05-07 00:13:47 <diki> just says no such file or directory
  22 2011-05-07 00:15:42 <io_error> WHAT no such file or directory?
  23 2011-05-07 00:15:49 <io_error> and sure you can paste, just ssh into your virtual machine :)
  24 2011-05-07 00:15:56 <phantomcircuit> i think he means he's running ./configure
  25 2011-05-07 00:16:00 <diki> yes
  26 2011-05-07 00:16:02 <phantomcircuit> and getting no such file or directory
  27 2011-05-07 00:16:12 <phantomcircuit> diki, autogen.sh or something like that
  28 2011-05-07 00:18:01 <diki> comman not found it says
  29 2011-05-07 00:18:07 <diki> i need to install this sh?
  30 2011-05-07 00:18:18 `2Fast2BCn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  31 2011-05-07 00:18:52 <phantomcircuit> uh
  32 2011-05-07 00:18:59 <phantomcircuit> diki, what .sh files are there?
  33 2011-05-07 00:19:18 <phantomcircuit> diki, autogen.sh is defintiely in the directory
  34 2011-05-07 00:19:22 <diki> yes it is
  35 2011-05-07 00:19:31 <diki> but when i type autogen.sh in the terminal
  36 2011-05-07 00:19:35 <diki> it says command not found
  37 2011-05-07 00:19:40 zq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  38 2011-05-07 00:20:06 wheatgrass has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  39 2011-05-07 00:20:06 <phantomcircuit> diki, ./autogen.sh
  40 2011-05-07 00:20:37 <diki> now it says: autogen.sh 8: aclocal: not found
  41 2011-05-07 00:20:42 <phantomcircuit> http://tldp.org/LDP/Bash-Beginners-Guide/html/Bash-Beginners-Guide.html
  42 2011-05-07 00:21:01 <phantomcircuit> diki, no offense but you dont know enough basic *nix to build it
  43 2011-05-07 00:21:20 <diki> It is true i dont
  44 2011-05-07 00:21:24 wolfspraul has joined
  45 2011-05-07 00:21:32 <diki> i've only handled linux very long ago for just a bit
  46 2011-05-07 00:21:38 <diki> played a lot with sudo
  47 2011-05-07 00:22:05 da2ce7_laptop has joined
  48 2011-05-07 00:22:05 da2ce7_laptop has quit (Changing host)
  49 2011-05-07 00:22:05 da2ce7_laptop has joined
  50 2011-05-07 00:22:18 <diki> anyway, that is the error i get now
  51 2011-05-07 00:23:24 <phantomcircuit> uh one sec ill try and build you a static binary
  52 2011-05-07 00:23:32 <diki> for?
  53 2011-05-07 00:23:57 <phantomcircuit> the pool
  54 2011-05-07 00:24:05 <diki> no i meant for which os
  55 2011-05-07 00:24:31 <phantomcircuit> linux
  56 2011-05-07 00:27:14 da2ce7_laptop has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  57 2011-05-07 00:27:24 <io_error> diki: sudo apt-get install build-essential
  58 2011-05-07 00:27:40 <io_error> oh, and
  59 2011-05-07 00:27:43 <io_error> diki: sudo apt-get install build-essential autoconf
  60 2011-05-07 00:27:57 da2ce7_laptop has joined
  61 2011-05-07 00:27:57 <phantomcircuit> io_error, he's gonna need jannson also, which afaik isn't apt-get'able
  62 2011-05-07 00:28:10 <io_error> phantomcircuit: sure, there's a nice ppa from the jansson developer
  63 2011-05-07 00:28:51 <io_error> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:petri/ppa
  64 2011-05-07 00:29:09 <da2ce7_laptop> gday ppl
  65 2011-05-07 00:29:23 <io_error> sudo apt-get install libjansson-dev
  66 2011-05-07 00:29:41 xelister has joined
  67 2011-05-07 00:30:14 diki has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  68 2011-05-07 00:30:16 diki2 has joined
  69 2011-05-07 00:30:18 <diki2> sorry about that, card crashed
  70 2011-05-07 00:30:58 <diki2> crashed at stock i mean...already failing
  71 2011-05-07 00:32:56 <diki2> phantomcircuit, hows it going with the compiling?
  72 2011-05-07 00:33:25 io_error has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  73 2011-05-07 00:33:34 <phantomcircuit> diki2, almost there
  74 2011-05-07 00:33:51 IncitatusOnWater has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  75 2011-05-07 00:34:01 <diki2> it's apparent tho
  76 2011-05-07 00:34:11 <diki2> my card's physically damaged
  77 2011-05-07 00:34:50 <diki2> I followed diablo's adivce to turn it off for a bit(in my case it was 10 seconds) but i doubt it helped
  78 2011-05-07 00:35:31 <Diablo-D3> 10 seconds?
  79 2011-05-07 00:35:34 <Diablo-D3> I meant like 15 minutes.
  80 2011-05-07 00:35:38 <xelister> 10 seonds
  81 2011-05-07 00:35:40 <xelister> bitcoinders
  82 2011-05-07 00:35:46 <xelister> you so adhd
  83 2011-05-07 00:35:53 <Diablo-D3> xelister: you should talk!
  84 2011-05-07 00:36:06 <phantomcircuit> diki2, op cant do it need dynamic linking for mysql
  85 2011-05-07 00:36:08 <phantomcircuit> forgot about that
  86 2011-05-07 00:36:12 <xelister> btw, voice me ;)
  87 2011-05-07 00:36:22 <devrandom> BlueMAtt - any luck?
  88 2011-05-07 00:36:24 <xelister> diki2: you damaged the card from oc'ing? how long at what conditions it took?
  89 2011-05-07 00:36:38 <diki2> let's see.
  90 2011-05-07 00:36:47 <diki2> max voltage i ever did was 1,200
  91 2011-05-07 00:36:57 <xelister> what max clock you got?
  92 2011-05-07 00:36:57 <diki2> at 935 core and 500 memory
  93 2011-05-07 00:37:00 <xelister> wow.
  94 2011-05-07 00:37:03 <xelister> r5970 ?
  95 2011-05-07 00:37:11 <diki2> but it wasn't stable
  96 2011-05-07 00:37:14 <diki2> it crashed
  97 2011-05-07 00:37:16 <Diablo-D3> you probably fried it.
  98 2011-05-07 00:37:21 <diki2> fried what?
  99 2011-05-07 00:37:27 <xelister> you fried it like a mother fucking attack barier :P
 100 2011-05-07 00:37:36 <diki2> core or vrm?
 101 2011-05-07 00:37:37 <JFK911> 1200 volts. yow.
 102 2011-05-07 00:37:44 <diki2> 1,200 i said
 103 2011-05-07 00:37:50 <xelister> 1200 V. Roll on two.
 104 2011-05-07 00:37:54 <JFK911> ya 1,200.
 105 2011-05-07 00:37:58 <xelister> Roll on number two
 106 2011-05-07 00:38:11 <Diablo-D3> 1200 uv maybe
 107 2011-05-07 00:38:16 <Diablo-D3> er mv
 108 2011-05-07 00:38:22 <diki2> 1,2 millivolts or whatever
 109 2011-05-07 00:38:28 * Diablo-D3 facepalms
 110 2011-05-07 00:38:35 <devrandom> comma is like a period in EU
 111 2011-05-07 00:38:36 <diki2> point is, people said it could take 1,3
 112 2011-05-07 00:38:47 <JFK911> not where people speak english
 113 2011-05-07 00:38:55 <diki2> i never went more than 1,200
 114 2011-05-07 00:39:05 <diki2> afterwards i dropped it to 1,189
 115 2011-05-07 00:40:11 <diki2> so basically the more time it's off the more time it will take to get more btc to buy a new card
 116 2011-05-07 00:40:25 <diki2> if i go  as planned, i will have most of the money in 32 days
 117 2011-05-07 00:41:09 <genjix> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7450.0
 118 2011-05-07 00:41:21 <genjix> can anyone confirm these numbers?
 119 2011-05-07 00:41:31 <diki2> I shouldnt have clocked tho...the most 910-920 got me was 340mhash/s
 120 2011-05-07 00:41:38 <diki2> and with 800 i got 300
 121 2011-05-07 00:42:11 <xelister> 1.2 V
 122 2011-05-07 00:42:16 <xelister> this is how your card felt: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PuZoLkvmBbc/SV-6HHpCnuI/AAAAAAAABrI/6rhNxNe2LQo/s320/The+Green+Mile.jpg
 123 2011-05-07 00:42:23 <tcatm> genjix: there's a thread somewhere that discusses the problem
 124 2011-05-07 00:42:46 <diki2> like i said xelister, people said it could take 1,3
 125 2011-05-07 00:43:13 <xelister> Diablo-D3: btw, looking into that amd special INT op thing in your miner?
 126 2011-05-07 00:43:16 <tcatm> genjix: numbers look about right, though
 127 2011-05-07 00:43:29 <xelister> diki2: people said USA is the land of the free and brave
 128 2011-05-07 00:43:37 <Diablo-D3> xelister: the card isnt here yet goddamnit
 129 2011-05-07 00:43:47 <diki2> well i learnt my lesson the hard way
 130 2011-05-07 00:43:52 <xelister> call deliver comp and call them all faggots
 131 2011-05-07 00:43:54 <diki2> now my plan to crossfire is postponed
 132 2011-05-07 00:45:08 <diki2> I also ordered a cooler for the CPU for the price of the GPU
 133 2011-05-07 00:45:14 <diki2> it's unstable at stock now
 134 2011-05-07 00:47:48 <Diablo-D3> xelister: are you just drunk and/or high every moment of every day or what?
 135 2011-05-07 00:48:11 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: I thought tat was you
 136 2011-05-07 00:48:22 <BlueMatt> that*
 137 2011-05-07 00:49:06 <xelister> BlueMatt: we are same person
 138 2011-05-07 00:49:15 * xelister bbl
 139 2011-05-07 00:49:20 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: I dont do drugs, dude
 140 2011-05-07 00:49:24 <TheKid> I've gotten up to 1.2v on my 6990 :P
 141 2011-05-07 00:49:38 <xelister> TheKid: happy burning it out
 142 2011-05-07 00:49:43 <xelister> like Diablo-D3
 143 2011-05-07 00:49:45 <xelister> like diki2
 144 2011-05-07 00:49:53 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: lol, everyone does drugs, join the club
 145 2011-05-07 00:49:59 <phantomcircuit> DRUGS
 146 2011-05-07 00:50:04 <BlueMatt> but seriously, some of the stuff you link Diablo-D3...
 147 2011-05-07 00:50:04 <phantomcircuit> DEAR LORD I SAY
 148 2011-05-07 00:50:18 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 149 2011-05-07 00:50:23 sethsethseth____ has joined
 150 2011-05-07 00:51:03 <diki2> i am going to open up the card again
 151 2011-05-07 00:51:14 <diki2> see if i can find the culprit
 152 2011-05-07 00:51:54 diki2 has quit ()
 153 2011-05-07 00:52:03 <ArtForzZz> lol
 154 2011-05-07 00:52:07 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
 155 2011-05-07 00:53:17 <xelister> ArtForz: one card is 20% slower when in another box
 156 2011-05-07 00:53:30 <ArtForz> thats.. weird
 157 2011-05-07 00:53:32 <xelister> another box:  sdk2.4 not 2.1, probably newer ati drv, older mainboard
 158 2011-05-07 00:53:36 <xelister> what could casue it
 159 2011-05-07 00:53:40 <xelister> 560 @820
 160 2011-05-07 00:53:51 <xelister> instead 630 at that clk
 161 2011-05-07 00:54:03 <ArtForz> sdk2.4, newer ati driver
 162 2011-05-07 00:54:04 <xelister> its that box withfucking onboard intel
 163 2011-05-07 00:54:15 <xelister> radon is :2 and does only calc. no video head used
 164 2011-05-07 00:54:19 <ArtForz> especially if it's a 5970
 165 2011-05-07 00:54:26 <xelister> so better go sdk2.1?
 166 2011-05-07 00:54:31 <xelister> or older drv? or both
 167 2011-05-07 00:54:42 <xelister> ATI Y U NO LEAR CODE DRVS
 168 2011-05-07 00:54:42 <ArtForz> I'd try sdk 2.1 first
 169 2011-05-07 00:54:56 <xelister> oh Ati QA u so lazy.
 170 2011-05-07 00:54:56 <TheKid> xelister: I've never had any serious problems tbh
 171 2011-05-07 00:55:04 <TheKid> just a few minor bugs that get solved quickly
 172 2011-05-07 00:55:17 <ArtForz> really? minor bugs?
 173 2011-05-07 00:55:21 <xelister> LOLOLOLOL
 174 2011-05-07 00:55:24 <xelister> TheKid: trololol?
 175 2011-05-07 00:55:34 <ArtForz> start any opencl app. start anything that uses video overlay. crash.
 176 2011-05-07 00:56:52 <xelister> MOVE FREAKING MOUSE CURSOR OUTSIDE OF DISPLAY 1
 177 2011-05-07 00:57:03 <xelister> 25% chance mouse cursors becomes random noise bitmap
 178 2011-05-07 00:57:17 <xelister> 50% chance mouse starts jumping around and card freezes otherwise
 179 2011-05-07 00:57:20 <ArtForz> oh, and the fun "mouse cursor turns into 32x32 pixel noise"
 180 2011-05-07 00:57:29 <xelister> 25% a wild unicorn appers (didn't yet observed by me)
 181 2011-05-07 00:57:38 <ArtForz> I don't even have to move cursor out of display 1, upper right corner is enough
 182 2011-05-07 00:58:14 <xelister> apparently they where too busy coding extreme gaming shit
 183 2011-05-07 00:58:20 <xelister> and 24 displays infinity
 184 2011-05-07 00:58:23 <ArtForz> though that shit is "mostly" fixed on windows
 185 2011-05-07 00:58:28 <xelister> to check if mouse cursor works with 2 displays
 186 2011-05-07 00:58:38 <ArtForz> = as long as you don't use 1-bit mouse cursors
 187 2011-05-07 00:58:52 <xelister> ArtForz: do you know workaround for X?
 188 2011-05-07 00:59:12 <xelister> Mouse cursors. SERIOUS SHIT. No wonder they need time to implement this reckless new feautures.
 189 2011-05-07 00:59:25 <ArtForz> kinda
 190 2011-05-07 00:59:40 <xelister> it took /me/ like 3 days, back in DOS days, to get mouse cursor working. So I know it can be hard.
 191 2011-05-07 00:59:45 <ArtForz> same thing as on windows, don't use 1-bit or 2-bit cursors
 192 2011-05-07 01:00:19 <TheKid> xelister: never has happened to me
 193 2011-05-07 01:00:25 <xelister> when did this guys learned to code
 194 2011-05-07 01:00:32 <xelister> cant ati hire some MIT students
 195 2011-05-07 01:00:36 <xelister> where
 196 2011-05-07 01:00:49 <TheKid> One bug I've had is when the mouse would just be really big
 197 2011-05-07 01:00:52 <TheKid> for no reason
 198 2011-05-07 01:01:02 <TheKid> workaround existed, next drivers fixed it.
 199 2011-05-07 01:01:02 <ArtForz> TheKid: in both dims or just vertically ?
 200 2011-05-07 01:01:11 <TheKid> both
 201 2011-05-07 01:01:12 <TheKid> just like
 202 2011-05-07 01:01:16 <TheKid> blind mode engage
 203 2011-05-07 01:01:28 <xelister> maybe your card was trying to do the 32x32 bit random mouse cursor
 204 2011-05-07 01:01:31 <xelister> but there was a bug in that bu
 205 2011-05-07 01:01:33 <xelister> but there was a bug in that bug
 206 2011-05-07 01:01:39 <ArtForz> makes one wonder, how the hell can you get something as simple as cursor sprite overlay so horribly wrong in so many ways...
 207 2011-05-07 01:01:39 <xelister> and instead it just zoomed in the normal cursor
 208 2011-05-07 01:02:01 <ArtForz> well, I actually know why
 209 2011-05-07 01:02:22 <ArtForz> it's really a hardware bug
 210 2011-05-07 01:02:24 <xelister> ati should like hir ArtForz to get their shit streight
 211 2011-05-07 01:02:30 <TheKid> ArtForz = amd developer
 212 2011-05-07 01:02:30 <ArtForz> present at least on 4xxx and 5xxx
 213 2011-05-07 01:02:38 <TheKid> how he has so many ati cards
 214 2011-05-07 01:02:47 <TheKid> oh? how does that work ArtForz?
 215 2011-05-07 01:03:07 <xelister> A WILD BUG APPEARS in 4500 mouse cursor HW
 216 2011-05-07 01:03:14 <xelister> ..: 15 card types later :..
 217 2011-05-07 01:03:51 <ArtForz> iirc mouse cursor gets corrupted when it extends beyond right screen edge
 218 2011-05-07 01:04:11 LightRider is now known as LightRider|afk
 219 2011-05-07 01:04:14 <ArtForz> workaround is to switch to SW cursor overlay for those coords
 220 2011-05-07 01:04:31 <xelister> ArtForz: sound like a bug a 15 yo would fix in a day or two. what is wrong with them
 221 2011-05-07 01:04:41 <ArtForz> which causes the whole "why is youtube starting to stutter when my cursor is near the right screen edge" issue
 222 2011-05-07 01:04:48 <xelister> ArtForz: haha yes! I know this bug too
 223 2011-05-07 01:05:05 <xelister> ATI Raaaageeeeeon series - the grudge maker 5000.
 224 2011-05-07 01:05:12 Incitatus has joined
 225 2011-05-07 01:05:31 <xelister> why ati takes years to get shit like that fixed?
 226 2011-05-07 01:05:49 <xelister> its like ubuntu development shit
 227 2011-05-07 01:05:52 <ArtForz> just check the comments in xorg r600/r700 driver for plenty dev rage about buggy cursor overlay HW ;)
 228 2011-05-07 01:05:54 io_error has joined
 229 2011-05-07 01:05:54 io_error has quit (Changing host)
 230 2011-05-07 01:05:54 io_error has joined
 231 2011-05-07 01:05:55 <xelister> but they are not really volounteers
 232 2011-05-07 01:06:21 <xelister> ati doesnt now how to fix it or what?
 233 2011-05-07 01:06:38 <ArtForz> well, it's not exactly possible to fix it
 234 2011-05-07 01:06:47 <ArtForz> the damn hardware is buggy
 235 2011-05-07 01:07:10 <ArtForz> and they can't seem to be able to write a proper workaround for linux
 236 2011-05-07 01:07:34 <xelister> blaaargh
 237 2011-05-07 01:07:45 <xelister> the couldnt fix this shit for 5xxx when discovered in 4xxx?
 238 2011-05-07 01:07:51 <xelister> or at least for damn cypress?
 239 2011-05-07 01:08:01 <xelister> its not actually a low budget card
 240 2011-05-07 01:08:06 <ArtForz> problem was, they discovered it when 5xxx was already out
 241 2011-05-07 01:08:09 <xelister> I would expect FUCKING MOUSE CURSOR to work the fuck :<
 242 2011-05-07 01:08:24 <xelister> ati QA... u so lazy :-D
 243 2011-05-07 01:08:32 <xelister> THEY DONT HIRE QA BITCHES ???
 244 2011-05-07 01:08:32 <ArtForz> what QA?
 245 2011-05-07 01:08:48 <xelister> "hey worked on mikes box! LETS SHIP IT"
 246 2011-05-07 01:08:51 <ArtForz> yep
 247 2011-05-07 01:08:57 <xelister> hahahaha or ati you.
 248 2011-05-07 01:09:02 <xelister> hahahaha oh ati you.
 249 2011-05-07 01:09:16 <ArtForz> didnt codinghorrors or tdwtf have a shirt with that?
 250 2011-05-07 01:09:22 <xelister> and they do same shit since 2000 at least
 251 2011-05-07 01:09:34 <xelister> Ati all in wonder was so buggy it's a wonder it worked at all.
 252 2011-05-07 01:09:47 <ArtForz> yep
 253 2011-05-07 01:10:02 <xelister> i REALLY hope amd will get them in line!
 254 2011-05-07 01:10:13 <xelister> amd is totally other devl culture, I hope??
 255 2011-05-07 01:10:19 <ArtForz> iirc they fired most of ATIs driver team
 256 2011-05-07 01:10:22 <xelister> \o/
 257 2011-05-07 01:10:34 * xelister imgaines bing Amd HR
 258 2011-05-07 01:10:34 <ArtForz> but sorting out the existing mess seems to take years :/
 259 2011-05-07 01:10:48 <xelister> -oh its YOU :-E
 260 2011-05-07 01:11:17 <ArtForz> how are you gentleman?
 261 2011-05-07 01:11:30 <xelister> we set your VRMs up the bomb
 262 2011-05-07 01:11:42 <xelister> all your fans controll belongs to us
 263 2011-05-07 01:11:45 <ArtForz> hey, you started the AYB ref ;)
 264 2011-05-07 01:12:23 <xelister> you know why Ati oc'd cards users love Facebook?
 265 2011-05-07 01:12:52 <ArtForz> nope
 266 2011-05-07 01:12:54 <xelister> they can easly BECOME A FAN
 267 2011-05-07 01:13:24 <ArtForz> *facepalm*
 268 2011-05-07 01:14:25 <xelister> ArtForz: are you the only one orginal Ati team devel that remained hired when amd bought? =)
 269 2011-05-07 01:14:35 <xelister> that would explain a lolt
 270 2011-05-07 01:14:52 <ArtForz> I wish I was, then that shit would probably get fixed in this decade ...
 271 2011-05-07 01:14:56 <xelister> =)
 272 2011-05-07 01:15:03 <xelister> ArtForz: seriously, why not apply for Amd?
 273 2011-05-07 01:15:21 <ArtForz> mainly... I don't like coding
 274 2011-05-07 01:15:30 <xelister> I would pay $$$$$$$ in their place to get this shitpile fixed like a real developer
 275 2011-05-07 01:17:21 <JuanDaugherty> is it so that a BTC can only be spent once?
 276 2011-05-07 01:17:25 lurking_dev has joined
 277 2011-05-07 01:17:46 <xelister> JuanDaugherty: yea, then the guy you sent it to can spent it (just once)
 278 2011-05-07 01:17:47 lurking_dev has quit (Client Quit)
 279 2011-05-07 01:17:54 <luke-jr> n00bs
 280 2011-05-07 01:17:56 <xelister> ssuming the people he pays to will wait for confiormatins
 281 2011-05-07 01:18:27 * luke-jr has his Radeon connected to a KVM instance now
 282 2011-05-07 01:19:08 <JuanDaugherty> so the correct stmnt is that a given person, to the extent the bitcoin can identify her, can only spend a given BTC once?
 283 2011-05-07 01:19:25 <xelister> JuanDaugherty: sort of yea
 284 2011-05-07 01:20:20 <JuanDaugherty> *the bitcoin system can identify her
 285 2011-05-07 01:21:39 <JuanDaugherty> seems pointless if the transfer of ownership is sound
 286 2011-05-07 01:21:48 <JuanDaugherty> or worse than pointless
 287 2011-05-07 01:22:41 <ArtForz> ?
 288 2011-05-07 01:23:24 <ArtForz> I think you should read up on how bitcoin transactions work
 289 2011-05-07 01:24:50 <JuanDaugherty> what sources do recommend for that ArtForz ?
 290 2011-05-07 01:25:01 <JuanDaugherty> *do you
 291 2011-05-07 01:25:02 da2ce7_laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 292 2011-05-07 01:25:07 <gjs278> the internet
 293 2011-05-07 01:25:09 <ArtForz> the bitcoin paper by satoshi, and the bitcoin.it wiki
 294 2011-05-07 01:25:59 csshih has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 295 2011-05-07 01:26:48 <ArtForz> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Introduction is a good starting point
 296 2011-05-07 01:27:42 <grbgout> I like the video on bitcoin.org/index.php , and the intro text just before it.  Not nearly as detailed as the white paper, or the wiki, but a good introduction.
 297 2011-05-07 01:28:11 <grbgout> Oh no! They took it down >_<
 298 2011-05-07 01:28:14 <davex__> hmm 50,000 views now
 299 2011-05-07 01:28:20 <JuanDaugherty> I couldn't remember that it was bitcoin.pdf
 300 2011-05-07 01:28:48 <grbgout> davex__: ?
 301 2011-05-07 01:28:50 <davex__> "bitcoin is probably the worst idea i've ever heard of"
 302 2011-05-07 01:29:02 <davex__> the youtube video
 303 2011-05-07 01:29:06 <davex__> sorry thought you were referring to that
 304 2011-05-07 01:29:10 <JuanDaugherty> (or more precisely where I put it)
 305 2011-05-07 01:31:21 brooss has quit (Quit: Rage Quit)
 306 2011-05-07 01:31:50 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 307 2011-05-07 01:31:54 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 308 2011-05-07 01:34:07 <grbgout> Does anyone happen to recall the video that used to be on index.php?
 309 2011-05-07 01:34:30 DukeOfURL has joined
 310 2011-05-07 01:34:32 diki has joined
 311 2011-05-07 01:34:34 <grbgout> s/recall /recall the URL for /
 312 2011-05-07 01:35:00 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
 313 2011-05-07 01:35:11 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 16306559.1671 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 8 hours, 1 minute, and 25 seconds
 314 2011-05-07 01:35:33 <gjs278> how do you do bc calc and adjust the difficulty
 315 2011-05-07 01:35:42 <gjs278> I want to know what 280mhash will get at 150k difficulty next week
 316 2011-05-07 01:35:45 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd [bc,eligius] [bc,expected]
 317 2011-05-07 01:35:45 <gribble> Error: "bc,expected" is not a valid command.
 318 2011-05-07 01:35:53 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd [bc,eligius] [bc,estimate]
 319 2011-05-07 01:35:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 16306559.1671 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 151422.12838673, is 11 hours, 4 minutes, and 42 seconds
 320 2011-05-07 01:35:56 brooss has joined
 321 2011-05-07 01:36:06 <gjs278> ;;bc,calcd 280000 [bc,estimate]
 322 2011-05-07 01:36:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 280000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 151422.12838673, is 3 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 11 minutes, and 29 seconds
 323 2011-05-07 01:36:10 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 280000 [bc,estimate]
 324 2011-05-07 01:36:11 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
 325 2011-05-07 01:36:12 <gjs278> ok
 326 2011-05-07 01:36:15 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gend 280000 [bc,estimate]
 327 2011-05-07 01:36:25 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 280000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 151422.12838673, is 1.85991274567 BTC per day and 0.077496364403 BTC per hour.
 328 2011-05-07 01:36:26 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 280000
 329 2011-05-07 01:36:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 280000 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 2 weeks, 5 days, 11 hours, 17 minutes, and 28 seconds
 330 2011-05-07 01:36:47 <luke-jr> gjs278: welcome on Eligius ;)
 331 2011-05-07 01:37:07 <gjs278> eh, machine is remote, can't adjust it right now
 332 2011-05-07 01:37:10 <gjs278> I hope it doesnt crash
 333 2011-05-07 01:37:20 <gjs278> because then Im stuck calling my friend and telling him to turn it back on
 334 2011-05-07 01:44:22 <grbgout> luke-jr: can the payout threshold be set with your pool yet?
 335 2011-05-07 01:44:32 <luke-jr> grbgout: no
 336 2011-05-07 01:44:39 <gjs278> it's 1 or if you don't connect for 2 weeks
 337 2011-05-07 01:44:39 <luke-jr> grbgout: that depends on a feature not yet standardized
 338 2011-05-07 01:44:51 <luke-jr> 1 week*
 339 2011-05-07 01:45:00 <gjs278> oh okay
 340 2011-05-07 01:45:23 <grbgout> luke-jr: what needs to be standardized about it?
 341 2011-05-07 01:45:24 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
 342 2011-05-07 01:45:28 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":3.61,"low":3.29,"vol":22453,"buy":3.425,"sell":3.44,"last":3.425}}
 343 2011-05-07 01:45:33 <grbgout> How do your fees compare to the other pools, btw?
 344 2011-05-07 01:45:42 <gjs278> zero fee
 345 2011-05-07 01:45:45 <grbgout> pools'
 346 2011-05-07 01:45:51 <luke-jr> grbgout: payout minimum will be changed by signing with your address
 347 2011-05-07 01:45:57 <luke-jr> grbgout: almost no fee
 348 2011-05-07 01:46:07 <luke-jr> grbgout: like 0.0003% last I calculated
 349 2011-05-07 01:46:09 <gjs278> keeping transactions isnt really considered a fee imo
 350 2011-05-07 01:46:22 <grbgout> gjs278: he does more
 351 2011-05-07 01:46:34 <grbgout> a certain amount of BTC per second between blocks, iirc
 352 2011-05-07 01:46:47 SaneSmith has quit ()
 353 2011-05-07 01:47:12 <grbgout> luke-jr: hmm, URL me, I think I'd like to give your pool a try for a while.
 354 2011-05-07 01:47:14 <gjs278> mtgox still partially down...
 355 2011-05-07 01:47:29 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Eligius
 356 2011-05-07 01:47:39 <grbgout> 0.0003% is a lot better than 2% at slush, and 3% at deepbit: bitcoinpool.com doesn't count.
 357 2011-05-07 01:48:02 <grbgout> although... they don't count for the same reason I wasn't using yours.... Can't set the payout threshold above 1.
 358 2011-05-07 01:48:09 <gjs278> bitcoinpool is trash :(
 359 2011-05-07 01:48:27 <gjs278> on that note
 360 2011-05-07 01:48:28 <gjs278> so is firefox
 361 2011-05-07 01:48:34 <gjs278> it always tries to make me download http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/pool/current_block.json
 362 2011-05-07 01:48:38 <gjs278> instead of displaying it in browser
 363 2011-05-07 01:49:05 <gjs278> I have no idea who thought it would be a good idea to just not make json files appear in browser
 364 2011-05-07 01:50:19 ^1bitc0inplz has joined
 365 2011-05-07 01:50:37 robotarmy has joined
 366 2011-05-07 01:51:27 <diki> chrome opens it fine
 367 2011-05-07 01:51:55 <grbgout> as does opera
 368 2011-05-07 01:52:06 <gjs278> yeah
 369 2011-05-07 01:52:10 <gjs278> only firefox tries to dl for me
 370 2011-05-07 01:52:17 <gjs278> have to figure some setting out to force it to display
 371 2011-05-07 01:52:18 <grbgout> scratch that, opera wants me to d/l it too.
 372 2011-05-07 01:52:21 <gjs278> oh lame
 373 2011-05-07 01:52:24 <grbgout> I've seen other json files open in opera, though.
 374 2011-05-07 01:52:38 <grbgout> gjs278: add a mime type, maybe?
 375 2011-05-07 01:52:59 <gjs278> http://www.beepthegeek.com/2009/03/how-to-viewopen-json-files-in-mozilla-firefox.html
 376 2011-05-07 01:53:05 <gjs278> have to use an addon
 377 2011-05-07 01:53:07 <gjs278> oh well
 378 2011-05-07 01:53:34 <gjs278> and it works
 379 2011-05-07 01:53:39 <gjs278> even formats it for me
 380 2011-05-07 01:54:33 <gjs278> what is # balance: 41904731
 381 2011-05-07 01:54:46 <gjs278> is that 41 cents
 382 2011-05-07 01:57:02 <luke-jr> grbgout: when this is decided, expect to change minimum payout: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6428.0;all
 383 2011-05-07 02:00:17 <grbgout> luke-jr: interesting.
 384 2011-05-07 02:04:28 DukeOfURL has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
 385 2011-05-07 02:12:57 _W_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 386 2011-05-07 02:12:58 diki has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 387 2011-05-07 02:14:28 nphard has joined
 388 2011-05-07 02:16:32 _W_ has joined
 389 2011-05-07 02:16:36 diki has joined
 390 2011-05-07 02:16:45 <diki> this is what event viewer says
 391 2011-05-07 02:16:46 <diki> The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.
 392 2011-05-07 02:17:08 nphard has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 393 2011-05-07 02:17:17 <diki> oh, that one is from my reboot
 394 2011-05-07 02:18:18 JuanDaugherty has left ("Exeunt Channel")
 395 2011-05-07 02:18:50 <grbgout> g'night all.
 396 2011-05-07 02:22:47 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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 405 2011-05-07 02:35:24 FrankyJoe has joined
 406 2011-05-07 02:36:36 lolcat has joined
 407 2011-05-07 02:36:44 <lolcat> How much is bitcoin worth today?
 408 2011-05-07 02:37:42 <theymos> Around $3.5.
 409 2011-05-07 02:38:48 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 410 2011-05-07 02:46:29 csshih has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 411 2011-05-07 02:47:02 csshih has joined
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 413 2011-05-07 02:47:36 <lolcat> theymos: Insane
 414 2011-05-07 02:47:46 <lolcat> theymos: I bougth, like 100 for $25
 415 2011-05-07 02:48:04 n0n0 has joined
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 419 2011-05-07 03:03:01 witten has quit (Quit: Client exiting)
 420 2011-05-07 03:07:10 <xelister> ArtForz: sdk2.4->sdk2.1 == 560->630 Mhash.    Haha ATI, u so crazy.
 421 2011-05-07 03:07:34 <ArtForz> yup
 422 2011-05-07 03:07:50 <xelister> BIGGEST QUESTIONS OF UNIVERSE
 423 2011-05-07 03:07:58 <ArtForz> theres a reason everyone keeps shouting "use sdk 2.1 for 5xxx"
 424 2011-05-07 03:08:34 <xelister> HOW IS IT POSSIBLE that usafags keep calling 17 years old pairs pedos when said pair makeout with eachother, but a nigger groping 3yo on airport "for your protection" is ok????
 425 2011-05-07 03:08:59 <xelister> HOW IS IT POSSIBLE people getting high and aggresive on vodka are ok, but getting high on herbal is mass panic?
 426 2011-05-07 03:09:18 <theymos> People are stupid.
 427 2011-05-07 03:09:32 <xelister> HOW IS IT POSSIBLE ati can make best in the world x4 better GPU cards, but can't program SHIT on them, they even fuck up mouse cursor, and each sdk update over half year is WORSE ?!?!?!
 428 2011-05-07 03:09:44 <xelister> </list>
 429 2011-05-07 03:10:04 <ArtForz> yep, stupid shit like that everywhere
 430 2011-05-07 03:10:09 <xelister> theymos: I know but still it is just mind boggling
 431 2011-05-07 03:10:25 <xelister> this world is fucked up
 432 2011-05-07 03:10:31 <xelister> WORLD YOU SO CRAZY :-D
 433 2011-05-07 03:10:37 <theymos> Drivers seem to be the weak point in all hardware.
 434 2011-05-07 03:10:38 * xelister gets big oil carnister
 435 2011-05-07 03:12:13 <xelister> lets make our own better world
 436 2011-05-07 03:12:16 <xelister> with blackjack
 437 2011-05-07 03:12:18 <xelister> and hookers
 438 2011-05-07 03:12:29 <xelister> actually screw the blackjack
 439 2011-05-07 03:12:52 OneFixt has quit ()
 440 2011-05-07 03:13:48 OneFixt has joined
 441 2011-05-07 03:17:12 sion2k has joined
 442 2011-05-07 03:18:51 <Diablo-D3> I think xelister discovered fark.
 443 2011-05-07 03:20:04 sion2k has quit (Client Quit)
 444 2011-05-07 03:20:13 sion2k has joined
 445 2011-05-07 03:20:51 <xelister> Diablo-D3: nope, but thx for he idea
 446 2011-05-07 03:22:35 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 447 2011-05-07 03:23:04 sgornick has joined
 448 2011-05-07 03:26:07 sion2k has left ("Leaving")
 449 2011-05-07 03:27:26 <LightRider> afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|So now I'm being hit with a .05 btc fee
 450 2011-05-07 03:28:59 <ArtForz> what on earth are you doing that produces that huge transactions?
 451 2011-05-07 03:29:03 <Diablo-D3> do you have a lot of sub 1btc incoming tx?
 452 2011-05-07 03:29:12 <Diablo-D3> because thats about the only way
 453 2011-05-07 03:29:13 <davex__> ;;bc,stats
 454 2011-05-07 03:29:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 122359 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 616 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 0 hours, 33 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 151868.90103446
 455 2011-05-07 03:31:11 eao has joined
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 459 2011-05-07 03:34:49 Simn has joined
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 461 2011-05-07 03:37:38 <LightRider> afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|Does anyone know where to get the older clients? This is rediculous
 462 2011-05-07 03:38:48 <ArtForz> cue "wahh my tx hasnt been confirmed in over a day"
 463 2011-05-07 03:39:16 <Aahzmundus> What is with the huge transaction que? are pools requireing fees now?
 464 2011-05-07 03:39:21 <theymos> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/
 465 2011-05-07 03:39:25 <ArtForz> nope
 466 2011-05-07 03:39:37 <ArtForz> like 95% of it are plain ole tx spam
 467 2011-05-07 03:40:08 <theymos> Is much of it pool payouts? Many pools are apparently not using sendmany.
 468 2011-05-07 03:40:21 <ArtForz> also possible
 469 2011-05-07 03:40:31 <ArtForz> = don't run a pool if you have no clue
 470 2011-05-07 03:40:50 <LightRider> afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|thanks
 471 2011-05-07 03:41:21 FrankyJoe has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 472 2011-05-07 03:41:23 Simn has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 473 2011-05-07 03:41:55 <ArtForz> and for pool miners that request 0.0x payouts and are left with a huge # of tiny inputs, well, it's their own damn fault
 474 2011-05-07 03:42:05 <Diablo-D3> yes
 475 2011-05-07 03:42:07 <Diablo-D3> what art said
 476 2011-05-07 03:42:25 <Diablo-D3> you end up getting hit with large tx fees
 477 2011-05-07 03:42:28 <Diablo-D3> as in, fees for large txen
 478 2011-05-07 03:42:42 <Aahzmundus> so, cant a block contain like up to like 1,000 transactions?
 479 2011-05-07 03:42:52 <theymos> Regular transactions seem to be slowed down when pools do that, though, so there's also a problem with prioritization.
 480 2011-05-07 03:42:58 <Aahzmundus> why isnt the whole que cleard in the next block if there is no fee issue atm
 481 2011-05-07 03:43:43 <theymos> Then spammers could fill blocks to 1MB for free.
 482 2011-05-07 03:43:45 <Diablo-D3> Aahzmundus: xel sent me 10btc over 1000 tx
 483 2011-05-07 03:43:48 <Diablo-D3> it took 35 hours.
 484 2011-05-07 03:44:00 <xelister> :D
 485 2011-05-07 03:44:03 <xelister> problem?
 486 2011-05-07 03:44:36 <Diablo-D3> sending 685 btc with those faulty tx in them to mtgox cost me almost 4btc
 487 2011-05-07 03:44:41 <theymos> Would it make transactions much faster if the free space was doubled, or would that just get immediately filled with more spam?
 488 2011-05-07 03:45:06 <JFK911> xelister would wear it out fast
 489 2011-05-07 03:45:40 <xelister> but you dont tell how later I donated you another ~10 btc (in 1 tx)
 490 2011-05-07 03:45:42 <xelister> :P
 491 2011-05-07 03:46:06 <Diablo-D3> xelister: yes, and Im not going to tell them how 10btc does not put food on the table.
 492 2011-05-07 03:46:21 <xelister> Diablo-D3: what actually given the 4btc cost? mtgox fees? bitcoin fees?  but could you avoid fee if you wuld send them slowly (no txfee)?
 493 2011-05-07 03:47:02 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin fees
 494 2011-05-07 03:47:11 <Diablo-D3> and yeah, can you imagine fucking with that dude?
 495 2011-05-07 03:47:13 <Diablo-D3> its nuts
 496 2011-05-07 03:47:30 <xelister> script it, doh
 497 2011-05-07 03:48:14 <xelister> what if you would just make transfer for 10 btc, but set no txfee?  it would still apply bitcoin fees since this 10btc would be consising of lots of small txes and such tx is then big in size and therefore expensive?
 498 2011-05-07 03:48:42 <Diablo-D3> the tx fee thing does not effect this
 499 2011-05-07 03:48:59 <Diablo-D3> infact, it gave out a "lol I dunno" error when I tried to send all 685 btc
 500 2011-05-07 03:49:04 <Diablo-D3> because it hit maximum tx size
 501 2011-05-07 03:49:10 <xelister> hehe
 502 2011-05-07 03:49:19 * xelister puts on a hacker's hat
 503 2011-05-07 03:49:43 <xelister> well thats just silly how its triviall to distrupt bitcoin on tx level.
 504 2011-05-07 03:50:27 <Diablo-D3> its also expensive
 505 2011-05-07 03:50:41 <xelister> Diablo-D3: if you would make instead say 1000 transfers for small amount,then you would avoid any looses from tx-size-fee,  but it would take very long to process?
 506 2011-05-07 03:50:54 <xelister> whats expensive? the attack costs nothng
 507 2011-05-07 03:51:16 <xelister> so it seems spammer by sending horseloads of micropayments will forever fragment the coins poisoning entire market?
 508 2011-05-07 03:51:23 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit [Tycho]
 509 2011-05-07 03:51:51 <Diablo-D3> xelister: fragment? no
 510 2011-05-07 03:51:55 <Diablo-D3> its a one use trick
 511 2011-05-07 03:52:11 <Diablo-D3> when mtgox dumped my coins, it dumped it as 685 input
 512 2011-05-07 03:52:23 <Diablo-D3> (well, the components of since I had to split across tx)
 513 2011-05-07 03:52:32 <xelister> you could micro-send this crappy coins, but then the receiver will have same prolem as you had etc... so it spreads sort of.  untill someone eats the bullet and pays huge fees
 514 2011-05-07 03:52:51 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: fix deepbit already!
 515 2011-05-07 03:53:07 <xelister> >_>
 516 2011-05-07 03:53:13 <Diablo-D3> xelister: but the fees do not exceed the value
 517 2011-05-07 03:53:38 <Diablo-D3> yay deepbit is back
 518 2011-05-07 03:56:26 random_ has joined
 519 2011-05-07 04:02:25 <[Tycho]> Hello.
 520 2011-05-07 04:03:45 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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 524 2011-05-07 04:07:03 omar has joined
 525 2011-05-07 04:08:22 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,gen 290000
 526 2011-05-07 04:08:50 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 290000 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 2.65970525989 BTC per day and 0.110821052495 BTC per hour.
 527 2011-05-07 04:10:22 omar has quit (Client Quit)
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 530 2011-05-07 04:15:34 <tcatm> theymos: changing the free space doesn't help. there's enough free space in almost all blocks, but there are no transactions with high enough priority to make it into that space
 531 2011-05-07 04:16:06 <theymos> You could increase the 4kB space for low-priority free transactions.
 532 2011-05-07 04:17:05 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 533 2011-05-07 04:18:07 <ArtForz> errr... we try higher prio tx first, so the first 4kB for low-prio tx get used up by higher prio tx :P
 534 2011-05-07 04:18:24 gjs278 has joined
 535 2011-05-07 04:19:30 <ArtForz> the way the current prio code orders tx into blocks is slightly nonintuitive
 536 2011-05-07 04:19:52 <Diablo-D3> it should just order by fee, and then by input btc.
 537 2011-05-07 04:20:35 <ArtForz> so someone can just send 1kBTC to themselves over and over and delay other tx?
 538 2011-05-07 04:20:58 <Diablo-D3> if they pay the fees to get in, sure
 539 2011-05-07 04:21:03 <ArtForz> what fees?
 540 2011-05-07 04:21:11 <ArtForz> we use prio to order non-fee tx
 541 2011-05-07 04:21:23 <Diablo-D3> [12:14:47] <Diablo-D3> it should just order by fee, and then by input btc.
 542 2011-05-07 04:21:23 <ArtForz> fee-carrying tx can get in pretty much no matter what
 543 2011-05-07 04:21:28 <Diablo-D3> see above.
 544 2011-05-07 04:21:46 <ArtForz> yes, so someone sending 1k to themselves repeatedly would block all other no-fee tx
 545 2011-05-07 04:22:16 <ArtForz> is it me or does that sounds even more stupid than the current scheme...
 546 2011-05-07 04:23:00 <Diablo-D3> it'd take 1 slot.
 547 2011-05-07 04:23:05 <Diablo-D3> if theres any slots left for no-fee tx
 548 2011-05-07 04:23:21 <ArtForz> so... you want to order by #confirms, too?
 549 2011-05-07 04:23:57 <theymos> Ordering by fees and then breaking ties with priority makes sense. I don't see why Bitcoin does that odd "reserved space" stuff.
 550 2011-05-07 04:24:06 <ArtForz> yea
 551 2011-05-07 04:24:15 <ArtForz> I've been doing that pretty moch forever
 552 2011-05-07 04:24:32 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: order by confirms? hrrrrrrm
 553 2011-05-07 04:24:34 <Diablo-D3> that'd be good
 554 2011-05-07 04:24:43 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: guess what the current scoring system is doing
 555 2011-05-07 04:24:58 <Diablo-D3> fee -> input size -> average confirms of inputs
 556 2011-05-07 04:25:18 <xelister> what is default Vcore on r5770 ? 1.2 ?
 557 2011-05-07 04:25:20 <ArtForz> priority = sum(size of input * age of input) / tx size
 558 2011-05-07 04:25:28 EvanR has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 559 2011-05-07 04:25:33 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: Im ignoring tx size
 560 2011-05-07 04:25:39 EvanR has joined
 561 2011-05-07 04:25:43 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: that sounds really stupid
 562 2011-05-07 04:25:48 <Diablo-D3> large tx size would be promoted straight to the top on mine
 563 2011-05-07 04:25:55 <Diablo-D3> since he has to fay large tx fees
 564 2011-05-07 04:26:14 <theymos> Yeah, size could be removed from the priority calculation.
 565 2011-05-07 04:26:22 <ArtForz> not really
 566 2011-05-07 04:26:23 <theymos> Except with free transactions, I suppose.
 567 2011-05-07 04:26:37 <ArtForz> well, we don't need prio for fee-carrying tx
 568 2011-05-07 04:26:52 <theymos> We might need it for fee transactions some day.
 569 2011-05-07 04:27:07 <ArtForz> so... let's fix it some day
 570 2011-05-07 04:27:35 skyewm has joined
 571 2011-05-07 04:27:52 <ArtForz> but yeah, the current setup is... stupid
 572 2011-05-07 04:28:07 <ArtForz> and quite confusing
 573 2011-05-07 04:28:35 <Diablo-D3> well like I said
 574 2011-05-07 04:28:49 <Diablo-D3> [12:19:52] <Diablo-D3> fee -> input size -> average confirms of inputs
 575 2011-05-07 04:28:54 knotwork_ has joined
 576 2011-05-07 04:28:59 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: your setup sounds worse
 577 2011-05-07 04:29:09 <Diablo-D3> so if you have the most fees, you win
 578 2011-05-07 04:29:18 <Diablo-D3> if you tie for fees but are moving the most btc, you win
 579 2011-05-07 04:29:34 <Diablo-D3> if you tie for fees and tie for tx size but had the coins the longest, you win
 580 2011-05-07 04:29:34 <ArtForz> so by just sending a large amount to myself repeatedly with 0 confirms I can block all other free tx
 581 2011-05-07 04:29:46 <Diablo-D3> nope
 582 2011-05-07 04:29:47 <ArtForz> you said input size > confirms of inputs
 583 2011-05-07 04:30:11 <Diablo-D3> because most likely you wont get in to begin with
 584 2011-05-07 04:30:11 BitcoinExchange has joined
 585 2011-05-07 04:30:17 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: why?
 586 2011-05-07 04:30:20 <Diablo-D3> tx without fees will rarely be seen.
 587 2011-05-07 04:30:37 <ArtForz> oh, so we're talking about "in a few years/decades" ?
 588 2011-05-07 04:31:16 knotwork__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 589 2011-05-07 04:31:22 <ArtForz> because right now small (size) tx do not cost fees.
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 593 2011-05-07 04:32:18 <ArtForz> and in your setup, I can get ahead of all other no-fee tx by repeatedly sending a large-value input to myself over and over
 594 2011-05-07 04:32:37 <theymos> There have been several newbies I've talked to who were confused about the new required fee for low-priority transaction. If transactions were just sorted by fee+priority, that could be eliminated.
 595 2011-05-07 04:32:48 <ArtForz> that doesnt sound like "working as it's supposed to"
 596 2011-05-07 04:32:57 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: the only way to stop your shit
 597 2011-05-07 04:33:04 <Diablo-D3> is to put confirms first
 598 2011-05-07 04:33:17 <Diablo-D3> fees -> avg confirms of inputs -> total input size.
 599 2011-05-07 04:33:34 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: or do what the current code does, cumulative score from differently weighted characteristsics
 600 2011-05-07 04:33:36 <xelister> yeah I tink theymos is on to soemthing
 601 2011-05-07 04:33:44 <xelister> we need some good rules
 602 2011-05-07 04:33:47 <ArtForz> with changed weighting
 603 2011-05-07 04:34:56 <ArtForz> but yeah, I dont think the "free space" thing is really needed
 604 2011-05-07 04:35:10 <Diablo-D3> Im already saying nuke the free space
 605 2011-05-07 04:35:18 <Diablo-D3> and weighing doesnt work
 606 2011-05-07 04:35:19 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 607 2011-05-07 04:35:31 <ArtForz> just cut off tx below a certain priority score, and weight fees into prio heavily
 608 2011-05-07 04:35:37 <Diablo-D3> fee hoard first, let old coins pass first, and THEN sort for rich people
 609 2011-05-07 04:35:59 <bk128> are any 5xxx series chips still in production?
 610 2011-05-07 04:36:07 <ArtForz> bk128: I suspect so
 611 2011-05-07 04:36:27 <Diablo-D3> bk128: "no"
 612 2011-05-07 04:36:37 <Diablo-D3> they're recycling 5750/5770s from existing stock
 613 2011-05-07 04:36:56 <ArtForz> so where do the cypresses for firegl and firestream cards come from?
 614 2011-05-07 04:37:02 <Diablo-D3> infact, I think they're taking the cards out, putting a new sticker on the heatsink plastic, and shoving them back itno a new box
 615 2011-05-07 04:37:10 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: existing stock
 616 2011-05-07 04:37:21 <Diablo-D3> and Im not sure if they're new at all
 617 2011-05-07 04:37:48 <ArtForz> they'll need quite a bit of stock then
 618 2011-05-07 04:38:06 <ArtForz> as it looks like there wont be fire* of 6xxx
 619 2011-05-07 04:38:21 <Diablo-D3> there might be
 620 2011-05-07 04:38:34 <Diablo-D3> and lets face it
 621 2011-05-07 04:38:41 <Diablo-D3> its not like people actually buy those goddamned things
 622 2011-05-07 04:38:49 <ArtForz> actually they do
 623 2011-05-07 04:38:50 <Diablo-D3> they sell what, a few thousand a year?
 624 2011-05-07 04:38:57 <Diablo-D3> thats easy to put away stock for that
 625 2011-05-07 04:40:36 <ArtForz> shrug, guess so
 626 2011-05-07 04:40:43 OneFixt has quit ()
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 628 2011-05-07 04:41:45 <bk128> whats better? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102932&Tpk=5850%20Xtreme or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125318
 629 2011-05-07 04:42:26 <bk128> or neither
 630 2011-05-07 04:42:31 <ArtForz> gigabyte
 631 2011-05-07 04:42:53 <ArtForz> the cooler on that sapphie is fail squared
 632 2011-05-07 04:43:40 <MBS> lol
 633 2011-05-07 04:43:52 <MBS> the Xtreme has no voltage control, but great temps
 634 2011-05-07 04:44:07 <ArtForz> until the fan dies
 635 2011-05-07 04:44:07 <MBS> and it is really short too, the same size as the 5770
 636 2011-05-07 04:44:12 <ArtForz> then the temps arent that great
 637 2011-05-07 04:44:31 <MBS> why would the fan die?
 638 2011-05-07 04:44:53 <ArtForz> no reason at all, keep buying em.
 639 2011-05-07 04:45:49 <bk128> ArtForz: no this is the worst cooler ever http://wheresalebestprice.com/images/Sapphire-Radeon-HD-5870.jpg
 640 2011-05-07 04:46:10 <ArtForz> it's not like it's a cheapass sleeve bearing fan sitting right over the hottest area of the heatsink or anything
 641 2011-05-07 04:46:14 <bk128> also the first card I bought (traded thekid for it for btc) lol
 642 2011-05-07 04:46:41 <bk128> ArtForz: would you just rip off the fan and zip tie a 120 on?
 643 2011-05-07 04:46:59 <bk128> I'm letting it suffer at 78C
 644 2011-05-07 04:47:16 robotarmy has joined
 645 2011-05-07 04:47:18 <ArtForz> actually with these coolers you can run a block of 4 cards with a single 120mm ;)
 646 2011-05-07 04:50:42 <bk128> and its better than the stock fan?
 647 2011-05-07 04:50:57 <bk128> should I leave the heatsink and rip off the shroud and fan?
 648 2011-05-07 04:51:05 <ArtForz> bbl, have to be at work for a meeting today :/
 649 2011-05-07 04:51:58 <bk128> ArtForz: have fun :D
 650 2011-05-07 04:52:10 <Diablo-D3> bk128: get that gigabyte
 651 2011-05-07 04:52:13 <Diablo-D3> thats what I ordered
 652 2011-05-07 04:52:23 <bk128> getting 3 :D
 653 2011-05-07 04:52:46 <bk128> 2 from newegg to different addresses for rebates and # 3 from here http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch.asp?px=FO&scriteria=AA98542
 654 2011-05-07 04:53:17 * bk128 prays my pci-e 1x risers work if they ever come from china
 655 2011-05-07 04:53:57 Andrevan has quit ()
 656 2011-05-07 04:54:09 <quellhorst> bk128: where did you order them from?
 657 2011-05-07 04:54:23 <bk128> http://cgi.ebay.com/PCI-E-express-1X-riser-card-adapter-extender-flex-/320627812981
 658 2011-05-07 04:54:33 <Diablo-D3> erm
 659 2011-05-07 04:54:36 <Diablo-D3> thats a x1 to x1
 660 2011-05-07 04:54:36 phantomcircuit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 661 2011-05-07 04:54:37 <quellhorst> nice
 662 2011-05-07 04:54:40 <bk128> yup
 663 2011-05-07 04:54:44 <Diablo-D3> and that cable isnt shielded
 664 2011-05-07 04:54:51 <bk128> I have foil
 665 2011-05-07 04:54:56 <quellhorst> aluminum foil + duct tape
 666 2011-05-07 04:55:00 <Diablo-D3> fail
 667 2011-05-07 04:55:12 <bk128> and I'm going to check the pinout + soldering
 668 2011-05-07 04:55:40 <bk128> Diablo-D3: so chinese companies have magic foil that works better for shielding?
 669 2011-05-07 04:55:45 <Diablo-D3> yes
 670 2011-05-07 04:55:52 <Diablo-D3> they grind up dead babies into it
 671 2011-05-07 04:56:15 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 672 2011-05-07 04:56:23 <quellhorst> male or female babies?
 673 2011-05-07 04:56:34 <bk128> maybe its melamine :D
 674 2011-05-07 04:58:55 <bk128> if you didnt get it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine#2008_Chinese_outbreak
 675 2011-05-07 04:59:20 <Diablo-D3> yes I got the joke
 676 2011-05-07 05:02:10 <bk128> tasteless?
 677 2011-05-07 05:02:51 <Diablo-D3> yes
 678 2011-05-07 05:02:52 <Diablo-D3> also
 679 2011-05-07 05:02:54 <Diablo-D3> http://www.rackmountmart.com/prodspics/r1010.jpg
 680 2011-05-07 05:03:08 <bk128> how much?
 681 2011-05-07 05:03:26 <bk128> bet its not  < $5 :)
 682 2011-05-07 05:03:34 <Diablo-D3> http://rackmountmart.stores.yahoo.net/r11upciexx16.html
 683 2011-05-07 05:03:36 <Diablo-D3> $50
 684 2011-05-07 05:03:36 <Diablo-D3> lawlz
 685 2011-05-07 05:04:53 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 686 2011-05-07 05:04:55 <bk128> lol I'll take a chance with the $4 one first
 687 2011-05-07 05:05:16 <bk128> your suggestion is a last resort :)
 688 2011-05-07 05:05:26 <Diablo-D3> http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=11768
 689 2011-05-07 05:05:29 <Diablo-D3> pounds
 690 2011-05-07 05:05:37 <Diablo-D3> but only 13 of them
 691 2011-05-07 05:06:02 asherkin has joined
 692 2011-05-07 05:08:50 <bk128> Diablo-D3: i'll make thse $4 risers work :)
 693 2011-05-07 05:09:21 <Diablo-D3> lol
 694 2011-05-07 05:10:05 asherkin has quit (Client Quit)
 695 2011-05-07 05:10:34 <quellhorst> that looks like aluminum foil to me
 696 2011-05-07 05:11:23 <quellhorst> i'd put aluminum foil on it, then wrap clear wrapping tape around that shit.
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 746 2011-05-07 06:18:20 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
 747 2011-05-07 06:18:31 <gribble> timed out
 748 2011-05-07 06:18:34 <gjs278> jesus christ
 749 2011-05-07 06:24:17 <gjs278> hal turner made his ddos last less than this
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 773 2011-05-07 07:12:26 <NewBitter> Hello
 774 2011-05-07 07:13:12 <NewBitter> If i only have the Bitcoin program running and nothing else. Where do the BTC go? (The BTC the the program Bitcoin make)
 775 2011-05-07 07:14:16 <NewBitter> Anyone?
 776 2011-05-07 07:14:28 knotwork_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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 781 2011-05-07 07:24:19 Marcel has joined
 782 2011-05-07 07:26:43 <fetokun> maybe it's too early yet
 783 2011-05-07 07:29:58 <NewBitter> not at all
 784 2011-05-07 07:32:33 niekie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 785 2011-05-07 07:33:06 <baaaacon> NewBitter: go to your wallet in bitcoin you running
 786 2011-05-07 07:34:05 <NewBitter> I'm all new so sorry for the stupid questions but, there do i see my wallet? I have the Bitcoin program up and running atm
 787 2011-05-07 07:34:06 <baaaacon> NewBitter: you see generated and 50 bitcoin in your running bitcoin
 788 2011-05-07 07:34:19 <baaaacon> gui or linux?
 789 2011-05-07 07:34:23 niekie has joined
 790 2011-05-07 07:34:24 <NewBitter> Gui
 791 2011-05-07 07:34:36 <baaaacon> your wallet id is at top under menu
 792 2011-05-07 07:34:50 <baaaacon> generated bitcoin will show in list when you generated
 793 2011-05-07 07:35:16 <NewBitter> Nice but how do i keep them? Its just a program no account or anything
 794 2011-05-07 07:35:39 <NewBitter> also there a "file" "Settings" and "Help" butten at the menu in the top
 795 2011-05-07 07:35:50 <NewBitter> Button*
 796 2011-05-07 07:38:18 <NewBitter> looks like this: http://www.softpedia.com/screenshots/Bitcoin_1.png
 797 2011-05-07 07:39:34 CHARLIESHEEN has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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 803 2011-05-07 07:58:57 <JFK911> you have them
 804 2011-05-07 08:01:30 dishwara has joined
 805 2011-05-07 08:02:21 <ArtForz> Marcel|HSD: what?
 806 2011-05-07 08:02:48 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|ArtForz, my bad, sorry to bother you
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 811 2011-05-07 08:18:31 <an20>  is there an opensource bitcoind that supports long polling?
 812 2011-05-07 08:20:48 <rawry> poclbm is mit isn't it?
 813 2011-05-07 08:22:00 <AAA_awright> Isn't long polling HTTP...?
 814 2011-05-07 08:22:30 <lianj> rawry: https://github.com/m0mchil/poclbm/blob/master/LICENSE
 815 2011-05-07 08:22:41 <rawry> even better
 816 2011-05-07 08:23:02 <rawry> public domain = do wtf ever you want with it
 817 2011-05-07 08:23:19 <an20> I am looking for the server, not the client.  isnt poclbm a client?
 818 2011-05-07 08:23:37 <lianj> rawry: :)
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 820 2011-05-07 08:32:41 <rawry> it's dead simple to implement anyways, its just a rpc call with no timeout (or at least timeout > average current generation rate)
 821 2011-05-07 08:37:12 <NewBitter> Can't you like buy a cheep seedbox some where and set it to mineing?
 822 2011-05-07 08:37:30 <sipa> seedbox?
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 825 2011-05-07 08:38:26 <soultcer> NewBitter: You can, at least for a few hours until the host kicks you off for abuse
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 827 2011-05-07 08:39:05 <rawry> and it's not going to have enough cycles to matter
 828 2011-05-07 08:39:12 <NewBitter> sipa: Google it :)
 829 2011-05-07 08:39:20 <NewBitter> Ahh okay
 830 2011-05-07 08:39:30 <soultcer> Though you usually don't get shell access to a seedbox, do you?
 831 2011-05-07 08:39:31 <NewBitter> too bad it would have been great tho
 832 2011-05-07 08:39:52 dissipate has joined
 833 2011-05-07 08:39:55 <NewBitter> I dunno never had one just heard of it
 834 2011-05-07 08:42:41 <soultcer> My old vps host didn't mind me running bitcoin, the vps more than paid for itself back when the difficulty was low ;-)
 835 2011-05-07 08:43:19 <soultcer> Too bad their bandwidth quota was way too low
 836 2011-05-07 08:48:53 <NewBitter> I have a Nvidia 260GTX and it's f slow.. running at 40.. Not much.. if i have access to a lot of old computers can i set them to do it on their CPU? The GPU is some intel onbord shit xD
 837 2011-05-07 08:49:47 <sipa> you could
 838 2011-05-07 08:49:57 <rawry> but your odds are awful
 839 2011-05-07 08:50:03 <rawry> pay more in power cost
 840 2011-05-07 08:50:04 <sipa> but you'll need a LOT
 841 2011-05-07 08:50:31 <sipa> and the power bill will be a lot highsr even
 842 2011-05-07 08:50:34 <NewBitter> if i have like 5-10 and i'm not paying anything, because it's public
 843 2011-05-07 08:50:51 <NewBitter> so the state are paying for my money :D
 844 2011-05-07 08:50:55 <rawry> would dropping fee-less txns be a bad thing?
 845 2011-05-07 08:51:29 <rawry> NewBitter: then that is most likely fraud
 846 2011-05-07 08:52:25 <rawry> let me rephrase that question
 847 2011-05-07 08:52:34 <rawry> would dropping fee-less txns cause blocks not to validate?
 848 2011-05-07 08:53:02 <sipa> they would be valid
 849 2011-05-07 08:53:16 RenaKunisaki has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 850 2011-05-07 08:53:20 <sipa> but why would you do so?
 851 2011-05-07 08:53:34 <NewBitter> They are always running, it's on a school. So why not just use som CPU power to do it? No one would know
 852 2011-05-07 08:55:02 RenaKunisaki has joined
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 854 2011-05-07 08:55:21 <sipa> just buy some
 855 2011-05-07 08:56:09 <rawry> NewBitter: because it spikes power cost
 856 2011-05-07 08:56:29 <rawry> NewBitter: google for the guy who did similar at work with seti@home. you do not want to do this.
 857 2011-05-07 08:56:44 <jrabbit> NewBitter: only if you have legal access.
 858 2011-05-07 08:56:53 <rawry> and PERMISSION
 859 2011-05-07 08:57:02 <jrabbit> that could help.
 860 2011-05-07 08:57:18 <jrabbit> depends on your relationship with the owner tbh
 861 2011-05-07 08:57:37 <NewBitter> I do not have permission or legal access
 862 2011-05-07 08:58:07 <jrabbit> Lol then don't
 863 2011-05-07 08:58:07 <rawry> sipa: because to my understanding thats the long-term plan to incentivize generation, I was just verifying
 864 2011-05-07 08:58:18 <NewBitter> I guess i just have to buy stocks and sell them again
 865 2011-05-07 08:58:28 <jrabbit> NewBitter: its no different then hacking then :P
 866 2011-05-07 08:58:36 <rawry> NewBitter: you just logged your admission of guilt on a public website, if you end up doing it, fyi
 867 2011-05-07 08:58:44 <rawry> (so don't)
 868 2011-05-07 09:00:18 <NewBitter> They can't trace me. It's no diffrent then hacking? Why? it's not hacking anything is it?
 869 2011-05-07 09:00:49 fetokun has quit (Quit: ladio ga ga)
 870 2011-05-07 09:01:11 <jrabbit> ...
 871 2011-05-07 09:01:13 <rawry> it's unauthoriezed computer access
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 886 2011-05-07 09:30:35 <cosurgi> ;;isitdown mtgox.com
 887 2011-05-07 09:30:45 <gribble> http://mtgox.com Is Down -> Check if your website is up or down?
 888 2011-05-07 09:31:29 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 889 2011-05-07 09:31:48 <cosurgi> MagicalTux: do you have some more ideas how to bring mtgox up ?
 890 2011-05-07 09:31:57 <cosurgi> :(
 891 2011-05-07 09:32:06 <cosurgi> MagicalTux: can we help somehow?
 892 2011-05-07 09:34:02 <UukGoblin> question: is that the gov't attacking, or just bored crackers?
 893 2011-05-07 09:34:41 <BlueMatt> crackers who want him to pay to make it stop
 894 2011-05-07 09:34:47 <BlueMatt> (last I heard)
 895 2011-05-07 09:34:57 <UukGoblin> yeah heard that too
 896 2011-05-07 09:35:44 <cosurgi> luke-jr: wooo! we got a block!
 897 2011-05-07 09:36:49 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 898 2011-05-07 09:37:27 <errydayimgenerat> http://i53.tinypic.com/sltedh.jpg
 899 2011-05-07 09:37:31 <errydayimgenerat> y'all late to the party
 900 2011-05-07 09:37:55 <ArtForz> löl
 901 2011-05-07 09:38:08 <vsviridov> this looks shopped :D
 902 2011-05-07 09:38:16 <BlueMatt> testnet?
 903 2011-05-07 09:38:43 <ArtForz> 70824 blocks?
 904 2011-05-07 09:38:47 <BlueMatt> vsviridov: how the f can you tell if its shopped if its just text...
 905 2011-05-07 09:39:00 <retinal> 70 824 - 6323 = 64 501
 906 2011-05-07 09:39:12 <vsviridov> j/k jeez, but those jpeg artifacts don't help either :D
 907 2011-05-07 09:39:21 <retinal> http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000000aafe9e73b003daed213ea58da710fdf015eb4151198930cf8cea614 = 64501
 908 2011-05-07 09:39:39 <UukGoblin> that was like a year ago
 909 2011-05-07 09:39:41 <BlueMatt> time does technically line up
 910 2011-05-07 09:39:45 <retinal> 2010-07-06 00:27:32 vs 7/5/2010 in the picture
 911 2011-05-07 09:39:53 <BlueMatt> retinal: time zone
 912 2011-05-07 09:40:02 <vsviridov> one year ago i was generating with software too :(
 913 2011-05-07 09:40:10 <vsviridov> but, unfortunately not for too long
 914 2011-05-07 09:40:12 <retinal> BlueMatt: I was going to point out it was "close enough"
 915 2011-05-07 09:40:23 <vsviridov> managed to get a couple of hundred though
 916 2011-05-07 09:41:05 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 917 2011-05-07 09:41:24 <errydayimgenerat> i was doing that
 918 2011-05-07 09:41:26 <errydayimgenerat> with a dell
 919 2011-05-07 09:41:28 <errydayimgenerat> also
 920 2011-05-07 09:41:36 <errydayimgenerat> thet blocks were still counting
 921 2011-05-07 09:41:41 <errydayimgenerat> when i took ss
 922 2011-05-07 09:43:04 <ArtForz> and I generated a total of 409650 btc so far, your point being?
 923 2011-05-07 09:43:57 <sipa> damn you'd be rich if you kept them all :D
 924 2011-05-07 09:43:57 <retinal> ;;calc 409650/50
 925 2011-05-07 09:43:57 <gribble> 409 650 / 50 = 8193
 926 2011-05-07 09:44:01 <retinal> dem blox
 927 2011-05-07 09:44:22 <retinal> ;;bc,stats
 928 2011-05-07 09:44:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 122420 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 555 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 16 hours, 26 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 152852.19083049
 929 2011-05-07 09:44:31 <ArtForz> yeah, only kept ~50k
 930 2011-05-07 09:44:42 <retinal> ;;calc 8193/122420
 931 2011-05-07 09:44:43 <gribble> 8193 / 122 420 = 0.066925339
 932 2011-05-07 09:44:46 <retinal> oh my
 933 2011-05-07 09:45:29 <ArtForz> I was 20 - 30% of the total network for quite a while ;)
 934 2011-05-07 09:46:58 jvk has joined
 935 2011-05-07 09:46:59 <UukGoblin> that's what you get for knowing how to code :>
 936 2011-05-07 09:47:01 <cosurgi> ArtForz: I observed that when a 5870 GPU is single in PC it is a little faster: 405 MHs alone, vs. 395 MHs when three of them are in one PC.
 937 2011-05-07 09:47:16 <ArtForz> cosurgi: quite possible
 938 2011-05-07 09:47:20 <cosurgi> thx.
 939 2011-05-07 09:47:28 jvk has quit (Client Quit)
 940 2011-05-07 09:48:14 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, i've given up on sticking 4x 5970 in one pc btw. couldn't get it to work.
 941 2011-05-07 09:48:37 <ArtForz> dunno, working fine here
 942 2011-05-07 09:49:02 <ArtForz> probably depends on driver version, sdk version, kernel and phase of the moon
 943 2011-05-07 09:49:26 <UukGoblin> there must be some magical interference between my risers or psus. or a driver bug.
 944 2011-05-07 09:49:54 <UukGoblin> well the only one that may mismatch is the kernel - what's yours?
 945 2011-05-07 09:49:56 <ArtForz> are the cards in pcie2.0 slots? tried forcing gen1 speeds?
 946 2011-05-07 09:50:11 <ArtForz> 2.6.32
 947 2011-05-07 09:50:14 dishwara has quit (Quit: See u soon)
 948 2011-05-07 09:50:15 <ArtForz> amd64
 949 2011-05-07 09:50:41 dishwara has joined
 950 2011-05-07 09:50:56 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, they're in 2.0, yes. the setpci command didn't work for me - said it didn't know what CAP_EXP was
 951 2011-05-07 09:51:33 <UukGoblin> yeah, i was on 2.6.32 too
 952 2011-05-07 09:51:51 <UukGoblin> actually there was one more thing to try...
 953 2011-05-07 09:52:08 <UukGoblin> but the pc kept hanging and weird things were happening
 954 2011-05-07 09:52:26 <ArtForz> that can be caused by marginal risers
 955 2011-05-07 09:52:39 <ArtForz> especially the last slot on the 790FX is ... picky
 956 2011-05-07 09:52:43 <UukGoblin> so we decided it's not worth it - works ok with 3 cards. occasional shutdown of 1 chip every few days.
 957 2011-05-07 09:52:55 <ArtForz> probably coz it has the longest traces to the northbridge
 958 2011-05-07 09:52:56 <retinal> occasional shutdown = bad
 959 2011-05-07 09:53:15 <ArtForz> someone should totally build active risers
 960 2011-05-07 09:53:30 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, we were trying msi 790fx as well as gigabyte
 961 2011-05-07 09:53:39 <ArtForz> w/ PCIe redrivers
 962 2011-05-07 09:53:39 <errydayimgenerat> i did my mining on a dell
 963 2011-05-07 09:53:42 <errydayimgenerat> with a 4630
 964 2011-05-07 09:53:50 <errydayimgenerat> cause i'm boss like that
 965 2011-05-07 09:53:51 <errydayimgenerat> on xp
 966 2011-05-07 09:53:53 <ArtForz> errydayimgenerat: I call BS
 967 2011-05-07 09:54:00 <errydayimgenerat> lol
 968 2011-05-07 09:54:04 polminton has joined
 969 2011-05-07 09:54:09 <errydayimgenerat> i'm not bsing
 970 2011-05-07 09:54:19 polminton has left ()
 971 2011-05-07 09:54:20 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, that'd be nice. and pricey ;)
 972 2011-05-07 09:54:20 <errydayimgenerat> when did you start generating?
 973 2011-05-07 09:54:26 <ArtForz> back then there were no gpu miners
 974 2011-05-07 09:54:41 <ArtForz> I should know, I fucking *wrote* the first decent one
 975 2011-05-07 09:54:50 TheAncientGoat has joined
 976 2011-05-07 09:55:43 <ArtForz> my first GPU-mined block was 2010-07-08
 977 2011-05-07 09:56:18 sacarlson has joined
 978 2011-05-07 09:56:23 <midnightmagic> :-) you kept that record like a memento. awesome.
 979 2011-05-07 09:57:17 <UukGoblin> back then i was hiring rackspace cloud servers for mining
 980 2011-05-07 09:57:29 <UukGoblin> that was fun too
 981 2011-05-07 09:57:36 <UukGoblin> genned around 30k btc
 982 2011-05-07 09:57:43 <gjs278> how many did you sell
 983 2011-05-07 09:57:46 <gjs278> before the $1 mark
 984 2011-05-07 09:57:59 <UukGoblin> about 20k i think
 985 2011-05-07 09:58:04 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 986 2011-05-07 09:58:44 <gjs278> I don't think I would have gotten involved with cloud servers for this, all I cared about was breaking even
 987 2011-05-07 09:58:53 <gjs278> and getting free gfx cards
 988 2011-05-07 09:58:54 <gjs278> and fans
 989 2011-05-07 09:59:17 <UukGoblin> cloud servers were profitable and there were no gpu clients available
 990 2011-05-07 09:59:23 <errydayimgenerat> i came up 22k ish without even investing or thinking about anything
 991 2011-05-07 09:59:24 <errydayimgenerat> on my dell
 992 2011-05-07 09:59:30 m00p has joined
 993 2011-05-07 09:59:35 <UukGoblin> by the time i started learning cuda a few free ones came out
 994 2011-05-07 10:00:02 <errydayimgenerat> okay artforz i guess it was bs
 995 2011-05-07 10:00:05 <errydayimgenerat> and all software
 996 2011-05-07 10:00:16 <errydayimgenerat> you're still a fag
 997 2011-05-07 10:00:39 <ArtForz> lol
 998 2011-05-07 10:00:43 <retinal> ( ﾟ∀ﾟ)ｱﾊﾊ八八ﾉヽﾉヽﾉヽﾉ ＼ / ＼/ ＼
 999 2011-05-07 10:00:52 <ArtForz> unicode soup ftw
1000 2011-05-07 10:01:09 <retinal> oh come on, install them fonts
1001 2011-05-07 10:01:14 <UukGoblin> ArtForz is allright, he's very helpful on irc :)
1002 2011-05-07 10:01:35 <errydayimgenerat> well of course he's making money off of it
1003 2011-05-07 10:01:37 <gjs278> I can definitely see the entire thing
1004 2011-05-07 10:01:37 <errydayimgenerat> he's greedy
1005 2011-05-07 10:01:40 <errydayimgenerat> like anyone else
1006 2011-05-07 10:01:44 <errydayimgenerat> that's causes wars
1007 2011-05-07 10:01:56 <ArtForz> boo fucking hoo
1008 2011-05-07 10:01:57 <djoot> slavery causes wars
1009 2011-05-07 10:01:59 <retinal> not like that's anything new
1010 2011-05-07 10:02:15 <errydayimgenerat> hey artforz
1011 2011-05-07 10:02:16 <UukGoblin> making money off being helpful on irc? how??
1012 2011-05-07 10:02:19 <errydayimgenerat> can we hang out one day?
1013 2011-05-07 10:02:24 <errydayimgenerat> more interest vested into btc
1014 2011-05-07 10:02:25 <errydayimgenerat> btc go up
1015 2011-05-07 10:02:29 <errydayimgenerat> artforz $ goes up
1016 2011-05-07 10:02:37 <errydayimgenerat> if a man amasses a wealthy fortune
1017 2011-05-07 10:02:39 <errydayimgenerat> he should retire
1018 2011-05-07 10:02:48 <ArtForz> actually I *told* people "hey, with OpenCL a $50 ATI GPU generates faster than 50 high-end CPUs"
1019 2011-05-07 10:03:09 <gjs278> lies
1020 2011-05-07 10:03:20 <gjs278> I can do 24 mhash on this cpu
1021 2011-05-07 10:03:21 <ArtForz> I got logs, what do you have?
1022 2011-05-07 10:03:27 <ArtForz> back then you couldnt
1023 2011-05-07 10:03:31 <ArtForz> that was even before sse2
1024 2011-05-07 10:03:39 <UukGoblin> i have logs too, can confirm if i CBA
1025 2011-05-07 10:03:46 <UukGoblin> ArtForz isn't lying though
1026 2011-05-07 10:03:53 <gjs278> does mining hardware comparison have the old old numbers in it
1027 2011-05-07 10:04:11 <errydayimgenerat> i have same hash now today as i did back then
1028 2011-05-07 10:04:15 <errydayimgenerat> i think 1800k
1029 2011-05-07 10:04:19 <gjs278> nevermind
1030 2011-05-07 10:04:20 <errydayimgenerat> oh yeahhhh
1031 2011-05-07 10:04:20 <UukGoblin> gjs278, back then there was no bitcoin.it
1032 2011-05-07 10:04:23 <gjs278> it only goes back to december
1033 2011-05-07 10:05:33 jazzanova has joined
1034 2011-05-07 10:05:35 <jazzanova> hi
1035 2011-05-07 10:05:56 <BlueMatt> hello
1036 2011-05-07 10:06:12 <ArtForz> I currently only have about 42Gh, should be 60 in about 2 weeks
1037 2011-05-07 10:06:23 <BlueMatt> more asics?
1038 2011-05-07 10:06:27 <ArtForz> yep
1039 2011-05-07 10:06:38 <jazzanova> trying to run bitcoind in a chroot environment, and I'm getting error: EC_KEY_generate_key failed
1040 2011-05-07 10:06:49 <BlueMatt> just in time for diff increase
1041 2011-05-07 10:06:53 <jazzanova> what am i missing?
1042 2011-05-07 10:07:00 <BlueMatt> openssl
1043 2011-05-07 10:07:05 <gjs278> just in time to help force the new diff increase
1044 2011-05-07 10:07:08 <ArtForz> soudns like openssl has a problem
1045 2011-05-07 10:07:32 <ArtForz> built the first 1.6Ghps yesterday, another 3.2Ghps today, another 2 tomorrow, ...
1046 2011-05-07 10:07:35 <gjs278> difficulty increasing is awesome though, the coins always go up in value
1047 2011-05-07 10:07:36 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,gend 60000000 [bc,estimate]
1048 2011-05-07 10:07:36 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 60000000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 152816.37245172, is 394.916473063 BTC per day and 16.4548530443 BTC per hour.
1049 2011-05-07 10:07:57 <gjs278> but the speculators were way off on current btc prices
1050 2011-05-07 10:08:04 <gjs278> they were all claiming $5 by may 5th
1051 2011-05-07 10:08:06 <jazzanova> i have /usr/bin mounted on the chroot, so /usr/bin/opessl works
1052 2011-05-07 10:08:06 <sipa> jazzanova: i assume it uses /dev/random or /dev/urandom, which may not work in a chroot
1053 2011-05-07 10:08:12 <jazzanova> aah
1054 2011-05-07 10:08:18 <ArtForz> as doing more than one 8-chip module a evening isn't any fun
1055 2011-05-07 10:08:27 <jazzanova> sipa: let me try tihs
1056 2011-05-07 10:09:28 <ArtForz> hand-placing about 200 bypass caps, most of em 0402s = PITA
1057 2011-05-07 10:10:01 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, get a pick'n'place cnc!
1058 2011-05-07 10:10:31 <ArtForz> a decent one is > $15k
1059 2011-05-07 10:10:54 <UukGoblin> hmm
1060 2011-05-07 10:11:00 <ArtForz> thats a LOT of evenings spent hand-placing
1061 2011-05-07 10:11:02 <UukGoblin> my friend was talking of building one
1062 2011-05-07 10:11:14 <ArtForz> have fun, that shit is *hard*
1063 2011-05-07 10:11:38 <ArtForz> I'll probably get a simple semi-manual placer
1064 2011-05-07 10:12:16 <ArtForz> those are only $1-2k
1065 2011-05-07 10:12:22 <UukGoblin> well it's probably not gonna happen anytime soon though, got too many other stuff we want to make
1066 2011-05-07 10:12:31 <ArtForz> = manual x/y, automated Z down w/ vac release on touchdown
1067 2011-05-07 10:12:42 <ArtForz> and manual rotation ofc
1068 2011-05-07 10:12:50 <UukGoblin> hmm
1069 2011-05-07 10:13:02 <UukGoblin> x/y should be easy to automate...
1070 2011-05-07 10:13:04 <ArtForz> but still better than tweezers + lots of patience
1071 2011-05-07 10:13:15 <ArtForz> not quite
1072 2011-05-07 10:13:20 <ArtForz> the problem is aligning part to pads
1073 2011-05-07 10:13:35 <ArtForz> pickup doesn't always get the part 100% centered
1074 2011-05-07 10:13:45 <UukGoblin> ah
1075 2011-05-07 10:13:48 <ArtForz> and PCB palcement also isn't 100% identical
1076 2011-05-07 10:13:59 <UukGoblin> (not that I used one)
1077 2011-05-07 10:14:04 <ArtForz> so you pretty much need a vision system for placing anything < 0805s or so
1078 2011-05-07 10:14:18 <ArtForz> for coarser stuff, simple manual alignment usually works well enough
1079 2011-05-07 10:14:23 <UukGoblin> ah i see
1080 2011-05-07 10:14:34 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1081 2011-05-07 10:14:44 <UukGoblin> that's what's pricey
1082 2011-05-07 10:14:49 <ArtForz> yep
1083 2011-05-07 10:15:20 sgornick has joined
1084 2011-05-07 10:15:21 <ArtForz> you can get a used P&P without vision for $2k or so
1085 2011-05-07 10:15:40 <UukGoblin> yeah that makes sense now
1086 2011-05-07 10:16:03 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1087 2011-05-07 10:16:21 <ArtForz> but then those are older machines with only ~0.25-0.5mm placement accuracy and a simple rotation/alignment cup
1088 2011-05-07 10:16:22 devon_hillard has joined
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1090 2011-05-07 10:17:35 <ArtForz> the new stuff has servo drives w/ < 0.1mm accuracy, rotation alignment via bottom vision, part-pad alignment via bottom+top vision, ...
1091 2011-05-07 10:17:39 <ArtForz> impressive, but $$$
1092 2011-05-07 10:17:53 <ArtForz> thoguh I guess you could do roll your own if you got the spare time
1093 2011-05-07 10:19:59 <UukGoblin> well yeah i wasn't talking about vision ;)
1094 2011-05-07 10:20:06 <UukGoblin> but perhaps could be done too
1095 2011-05-07 10:20:36 <ArtForz> done on the cheap it won't be fast though
1096 2011-05-07 10:20:47 <UukGoblin> mhm
1097 2011-05-07 10:20:55 <ArtForz> getting < 0.25mm accuracy with belt drives + steppers is pretty much impossible
1098 2011-05-07 10:21:27 <ArtForz> so you either need servo drives ($$$) or use trapezoid screws or ballscrews w/ steppers (slooow)
1099 2011-05-07 10:22:03 <ArtForz> 2 usb cams for the vision system, one bottom mounted, one flying on the z carriage
1100 2011-05-07 10:22:33 <UukGoblin> on our proto cnc we have kind of belt + steppers on x/y and a screw + stepper on z
1101 2011-05-07 10:22:50 <UukGoblin> and yeah, z's fucking slow
1102 2011-05-07 10:23:00 <ArtForz> but damn accurate
1103 2011-05-07 10:23:05 <UukGoblin> yeah
1104 2011-05-07 10:23:46 <UukGoblin> hrm linux emc2 doesn't support vision i don't think
1105 2011-05-07 10:24:04 <UukGoblin> would have to correct gcode on the fly somehow
1106 2011-05-07 10:24:09 <ArtForz> nope, you'd have to roll your own using one of the FOSS vision packages
1107 2011-05-07 10:24:31 <ArtForz> as a placer doesn't really have to deal with forces, polished steel rods w/ linear roller bearings should be fine as linear rails (hell, just use brass bushings if you're cheap)
1108 2011-05-07 10:25:05 <UukGoblin> all good to know before we start doing something big :)
1109 2011-05-07 10:25:16 <ArtForz> especially if you have a mill and can do the bearing blocks yourself ;)
1110 2011-05-07 10:26:00 <ArtForz> btw, for big(-ish) and only doing wood/plastics/alu, steel rod w/ linear bearings also works surprisingly well
1111 2011-05-07 10:26:40 <ArtForz> just the rods are slightly... thicker ;)
1112 2011-05-07 10:27:02 <UukGoblin> yeah our other friend has one like that
1113 2011-05-07 10:27:13 <UukGoblin> but he has belts iirc
1114 2011-05-07 10:27:29 <ArtForz> yeah
1115 2011-05-07 10:27:45 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1116 2011-05-07 10:27:45 <ArtForz> for machining simple wood/plastic panels belt drive is usually good enough
1117 2011-05-07 10:28:00 sethsethseth____ has joined
1118 2011-05-07 10:28:06 <ArtForz> you only really need screw drives if you're doing precision machining
1119 2011-05-07 10:29:25 <ArtForz> or if you're dealing with large forces (usually == machining steel)
1120 2011-05-07 10:31:14 <UukGoblin> mhm
1121 2011-05-07 10:31:33 <UukGoblin> would have to ask
1122 2011-05-07 10:31:45 <UukGoblin> he definitely cut steel with a plasma cutter
1123 2011-05-07 10:32:03 <UukGoblin> but that's not as force i guess :)
1124 2011-05-07 10:32:06 <ArtForz> well, that doesn't exactly cause lateral forces, does it? ;)
1125 2011-05-07 10:32:23 <UukGoblin> forcey*
1126 2011-05-07 10:32:32 <midnightmagic> finger of god
1127 2011-05-07 10:32:33 <UukGoblin> :)
1128 2011-05-07 10:34:06 <ArtForz> btw, cheap trick for placing 0402s, don't use tweezers
1129 2011-05-07 10:36:48 <ArtForz> wooden or metal pen w/ about 1mm dia ball tip w/ a light coating of tacky substance
1130 2011-05-07 10:37:20 <UukGoblin> ha :-)
1131 2011-05-07 10:37:32 <ArtForz> the solder paste on the board is more tacky than the tip, so placing parts is rather simple ;)
1132 2011-05-07 10:37:43 <UukGoblin> nice
1133 2011-05-07 10:39:15 <ArtForz> if the parts are ferromagnetic, same thing with a slightly magnetic pen also works
1134 2011-05-07 10:40:00 * sipa thinks slush's latest block is wrong
1135 2011-05-07 10:41:05 <tcatm> sipa: chainsplit?
1136 2011-05-07 10:41:25 <sipa> could be, maybe his interface doesn't deal with it correctly
1137 2011-05-07 10:41:33 <UukGoblin> which block is it?
1138 2011-05-07 10:41:45 <sipa> well, none, see http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/
1139 2011-05-07 10:42:27 <UukGoblin> mhm looks weird
1140 2011-05-07 10:43:02 <ArtForz> probably a split block
1141 2011-05-07 11:01:42 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, do you know any FOSS vision correctors that could do the trick?
1142 2011-05-07 11:04:15 Greek_o_nikos has joined
1143 2011-05-07 11:04:38 <molecular> what does one need to get started playing with fpgas? grab one of these dev boards + jtag programmer from ebay?
1144 2011-05-07 11:05:26 <UukGoblin> I guess an FPGA would be handy to have, too ;-]
1145 2011-05-07 11:05:34 <UukGoblin> unless it's shipped with the board
1146 2011-05-07 11:05:52 <molecular> :)
1147 2011-05-07 11:06:48 tcatm has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1148 2011-05-07 11:06:55 <molecular> can someone recommend a small (as in cheap) fpga and a dev board that is as combatible as possible? just wanna have some fun (remembering building that cpu back at university)
1149 2011-05-07 11:07:22 jwalck has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1150 2011-05-07 11:07:29 jwalck has joined
1151 2011-05-07 11:08:40 MartianW has joined
1152 2011-05-07 11:10:15 <molecular> does one usually use vendor software for making/programming an fpga or are the foss alternatives?
1153 2011-05-07 11:12:23 mologie has joined
1154 2011-05-07 11:12:57 <UukGoblin> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Axis_Embed_Video <- this looks promising
1155 2011-05-07 11:17:00 MartianW has quit (Quit: Bye all.)
1156 2011-05-07 11:35:37 danlucraft has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1157 2011-05-07 11:35:45 danlucraft has joined
1158 2011-05-07 11:53:47 JohnTobey has joined
1159 2011-05-07 11:54:29 <genjix> UukGoblin: what is that?
1160 2011-05-07 11:55:13 <UukGoblin> that looks even better: http://hackaday.com/2011/02/08/update-open-source-pick-and-place/
1161 2011-05-07 11:55:47 JohnTobey has left ()
1162 2011-05-07 11:59:41 diki has joined
1163 2011-05-07 12:00:18 <diki> I want to ask some of you guys. Wallet.dat contains all of the btc right? If i were to move only wallet.dat to a different machine will i still be able to see and of course use my btc?
1164 2011-05-07 12:00:31 <diki> or do i allso need the addr.dat file?
1165 2011-05-07 12:00:37 <sipa> wallet.dat suffices
1166 2011-05-07 12:01:26 <diki> so, my old PC is on XP and if i copy and replace it's wallet.dat with mine i will have my btc there as well?
1167 2011-05-07 12:01:29 <UukGoblin> addr.dat contains addresses of nodes afaik, not wallet addresses
1168 2011-05-07 12:01:40 <Keefe> technically, wallet.dat just contains keys to your bitcoins. the bitcoins actually exist in the distributed block chain
1169 2011-05-07 12:01:52 <UukGoblin> diki, make sure you don't use one wallet in two places simultaneously, that'll break it
1170 2011-05-07 12:02:00 <BlueMatt> your wallet contains a list of your txes
1171 2011-05-07 12:02:02 <BlueMatt> and keys
1172 2011-05-07 12:02:07 <diki> so if every people closed their bitcoin program the btc is lost?
1173 2011-05-07 12:02:08 <BlueMatt> so copy that and you are good to go
1174 2011-05-07 12:02:25 <Keefe> diki if every copy of the block chain were deleted... yes
1175 2011-05-07 12:02:30 <BlueMatt> if everyone gets off the network...yea
1176 2011-05-07 12:03:00 <diki> so no one has ever seen a massive internet cutt off ever to come?
1177 2011-05-07 12:03:37 <Keefe> it only takes one person to hold onto a copy of the blockchain, to preserve his coins, as long as people in the future still value them
1178 2011-05-07 12:04:08 <BlueMatt> it only takes two clients to make a p2p network
1179 2011-05-07 12:04:12 <diki> SO what will happen if i were to copy my wallet.dat from one machine to another but the original machine's bitcoin program is still running?
1180 2011-05-07 12:04:21 <diki> what will break?
1181 2011-05-07 12:04:25 <BlueMatt> and if you split the network, as long as there is one connection between them...ou are good
1182 2011-05-07 12:04:40 <BlueMatt> nothing should break with 0.3.21
1183 2011-05-07 12:04:59 <diki> oh, i have 0.30.20.2
1184 2011-05-07 12:05:18 <sipa> on 0.3.20 you may need a -rescan after copying the wallet.dat file
1185 2011-05-07 12:05:27 <sipa> (and earlier)
1186 2011-05-07 12:05:33 <diki> what's different in 0.3.21?
1187 2011-05-07 12:05:49 tabsa has joined
1188 2011-05-07 12:05:52 <sipa> it will automatically rescan the blockchain as necessary
1189 2011-05-07 12:06:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: I thought the watch for your own coins getting spent for you was added in 0.3.21?
1190 2011-05-07 12:06:10 <sipa> BlueMatt: ah right, that too :)
1191 2011-05-07 12:06:13 * diki goes downloading new version
1192 2011-05-07 12:06:51 <BlueMatt> well Id say double spent issues are what you are concerned about
1193 2011-05-07 12:07:09 <diki> double spent?
1194 2011-05-07 12:07:31 <BlueMatt> spend in one wallet and the other one doesnt know that you spent
1195 2011-05-07 12:07:59 <sipa> those are still possible currently, if you have bad timing
1196 2011-05-07 12:08:12 <sipa> and can cause (partially) corrupted wallets
1197 2011-05-07 12:08:32 <BlueMatt> well you have to actively try to cause that now (or have clients with 0 connections)
1198 2011-05-07 12:08:48 <diki> oh the new version shows more numbers after the dot
1199 2011-05-07 12:08:53 <diki> nice
1200 2011-05-07 12:09:25 DukeOfURL has joined
1201 2011-05-07 12:10:23 tabsa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1202 2011-05-07 12:12:08 <sipa> BlueMatt: backup wallet, spend coin, restore backup before block is mined, spend coin elsewhere
1203 2011-05-07 12:12:54 <BlueMatt> oh that too
1204 2011-05-07 12:14:40 <sipa> BlueMatt: by the way, copying vectors around is a bit inefficient, as the data is copied
1205 2011-05-07 12:15:50 <BlueMatt> where do I copy vectors around?
1206 2011-05-07 12:15:55 <sipa> in other places in the bitcoin source, usually vectors are returned by having a vector<unsigned char>& vchOut parameter or so
1207 2011-05-07 12:16:02 <sipa> when returning them, eg.
1208 2011-05-07 12:16:12 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
1209 2011-05-07 12:16:34 <sipa> minor issue, though, i think you can create a pull request :)
1210 2011-05-07 12:17:03 <BlueMatt> alright, well Ill rewrite that first (I blame jgarzik, I didnt touch returns)
1211 2011-05-07 12:17:43 <diki>  BlueMatt: backup wallet, spend coin, restore backup before block is mined, spend coin elsewhere <- this can't possibly work
1212 2011-05-07 12:17:56 <sipa> diki: of course it can't work
1213 2011-05-07 12:17:56 <BlueMatt> yes one tx will be rejected
1214 2011-05-07 12:18:02 <BlueMatt> but the client wont complain
1215 2011-05-07 12:18:04 <BlueMatt> hence its a bug
1216 2011-05-07 12:18:06 <sipa> the issue is that the wallet will be corrupted afterwards
1217 2011-05-07 12:18:16 <diki> Who is actually in charge of the bitcoin program?
1218 2011-05-07 12:18:22 <xelister> sipa: no, just restore backup
1219 2011-05-07 12:18:33 <sipa> xelister: of course
1220 2011-05-07 12:18:52 <sipa> but still, it shouldn't be possible to get a wallet in a permanently corrupted state
1221 2011-05-07 12:19:02 <sipa> by just using the program
1222 2011-05-07 12:19:38 <xelister> oh. yes
1223 2011-05-07 12:20:15 <BlueMatt> diki: commit access: sipa, jgarzik, gavinandresen...who else?
1224 2011-05-07 12:22:07 allied has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1225 2011-05-07 12:23:33 <molecular> sipa: a -rescan would fix that problem with corrupt wallet, right
1226 2011-05-07 12:24:09 <sipa> molecular: no, it wouldn't
1227 2011-05-07 12:24:18 <molecular> maybe the wallet could contain a "latest block" value and bitcoin do automatic -rescan on startup starting from that value
1228 2011-05-07 12:24:21 <sipa> rescan only adds transactions to the wallet
1229 2011-05-07 12:24:22 <molecular> what? it wouldn't?
1230 2011-05-07 12:24:37 <sipa> the problem is that in this case there must be transactions removed from the wallet
1231 2011-05-07 12:24:41 <sipa> as they conflict with the block chain
1232 2011-05-07 12:24:46 <BlueMatt> I believe sipa has a working patch for "rejected transactions"?
1233 2011-05-07 12:24:53 <molecular> hmmm, then maybe that should be done on -rescan, too?
1234 2011-05-07 12:25:01 <sipa> yes, and my patch does that :)
1235 2011-05-07 12:25:05 <molecular> ah, ok
1236 2011-05-07 12:25:28 <sipa> and i also implemented automatic rescan after replacing wallet.dat, it's in 0.3.21
1237 2011-05-07 12:25:37 <molecular> oh, then I have it ;)
1238 2011-05-07 12:26:03 <BlueMatt> yay sipa :)
1239 2011-05-07 12:26:16 <molecular> btw: I did a "git pull" and now cant compile du to missing sha256.cpp
1240 2011-05-07 12:26:41 <sipa> hmm, haven't tried to compile master after the latest pulls
1241 2011-05-07 12:26:58 <molecular> hmm, maybe sha256 got moved... didn't make clean
1242 2011-05-07 12:27:01 <molecular> trying...
1243 2011-05-07 12:28:52 <molecular> "make: *** No rule to make target `sha256.cpp', needed by `obj/sha256.o'.  Stop."
1244 2011-05-07 12:29:00 tabsa has joined
1245 2011-05-07 12:29:06 <molecular> ./cryptopp/sha.cpp <- it's here
1246 2011-05-07 12:29:14 <molecular> oh, no it's not
1247 2011-05-07 12:29:46 <sipa> i can build just fine
1248 2011-05-07 12:29:58 <xelister> hey you know what would be cool, sipa?
1249 2011-05-07 12:30:00 <lianj> molecular: maybe git checkout -f master on your site
1250 2011-05-07 12:30:05 <xelister> if bitcoin gui (and console client)
1251 2011-05-07 12:30:09 <molecular> oh, I'm sorry. just saw there a conflict in makefile
1252 2011-05-07 12:30:10 <xelister> would list all important actions too
1253 2011-05-07 12:30:19 <sipa> actions, such as?
1254 2011-05-07 12:30:20 <molecular> I modified that. why doesn't "git pull" warn me about that?
1255 2011-05-07 12:30:33 <sipa> git pull is magic and dangerous :)
1256 2011-05-07 12:30:35 <xelister> like received TX orders (on net level), getting new block (on net level) etc
1257 2011-05-07 12:30:52 <sipa> it does list those in the debug log
1258 2011-05-07 12:30:59 <sipa> end users don't need that information, i think
1259 2011-05-07 12:31:19 <xelister> they need
1260 2011-05-07 12:31:26 <xelister> should be in Advanced tab
1261 2011-05-07 12:31:32 <xelister> and DEFINATELL important events-errors !
1262 2011-05-07 12:31:33 <xelister> like
1263 2011-05-07 12:31:36 <xelister> your TX was rejected
1264 2011-05-07 12:31:39 <xelister> wallet corrupted
1265 2011-05-07 12:31:47 <xelister> the block you minded was removed due to collision
1266 2011-05-07 12:32:07 toffoo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1267 2011-05-07 12:32:09 <sipa> the problem is that those things are not known
1268 2011-05-07 12:32:10 <xelister> the TX you posted was not yet seen in any of 3 new blocks
1269 2011-05-07 12:32:16 <sipa> there is no "TX is rejected"
1270 2011-05-07 12:32:18 toffoo has joined
1271 2011-05-07 12:32:21 <xelister> "the TX you posted was not yet seen in any of 3 new blocks"
1272 2011-05-07 12:33:16 <xelister> or like  "any of 10 blocks (no txfee was used)"  and "any of 2 new blocks DESPITE you send them with a txfee=0.02"
1273 2011-05-07 12:33:18 <xelister> etc
1274 2011-05-07 12:33:31 allied has joined
1275 2011-05-07 12:33:40 <xelister> also send dialog should allow to set per-transfer txfee, some transfers are important some not
1276 2011-05-07 12:34:06 <molecular> I agree with that one
1277 2011-05-07 12:34:57 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1278 2011-05-07 12:35:08 <BlueMatt> sipa: couple things Id like to bounce before I make a pull request.  1. -nocrypt option to not encrypt? 2. automatic encryption of existing unencrypted keys?
1279 2011-05-07 12:35:57 <UukGoblin> bloody kids whining about ops on privs... ;-P
1280 2011-05-07 12:36:17 <xelister> no worries UukGoblin I will handle 'em
1281 2011-05-07 12:36:32 <BlueMatt> xelister: you want to discuss ops, talk to nanotube
1282 2011-05-07 12:36:34 <xelister> so what /did/ you developd for btc? :>
1283 2011-05-07 12:37:08 <xelister> btw, btcfn is probably entering development (bounty almost filled)
1284 2011-05-07 12:37:09 <BlueMatt> xelister: ops isnt about bitcoin contribution, its about being on irc a lot and being available to ban when necessary
1285 2011-05-07 12:37:22 <xelister> BlueMatt: Im always here on irc and available
1286 2011-05-07 12:37:32 <BlueMatt> (and not using that power unless absolutely necessary)
1287 2011-05-07 12:37:35 <xelister> unless my raAAaAaGeeEeEon is hanging =)
1288 2011-05-07 12:38:12 <sipa> BlueMatt: no passphrase = no encrypt?
1289 2011-05-07 12:38:26 <BlueMatt> sipa: no passphrase = no init "Please enter password..."
1290 2011-05-07 12:38:45 <BlueMatt> and I'd prefer to make people work to not encrypt
1291 2011-05-07 12:38:53 <sipa> i agree
1292 2011-05-07 12:40:22 <sipa> so, maybe you can extend CCrypter to have a dummy mode (which is by default enabled until SetKey is called)
1293 2011-05-07 12:40:25 <BlueMatt> also, before 0.4.0 password change is needed imho
1294 2011-05-07 12:40:41 <sipa> which does not do encryption/decryption
1295 2011-05-07 12:41:19 <BlueMatt> hm, Id prefer to make calls to Encrypt always encrypt and handle the dont encrypt here in the wallet writing (and use key instead of ekey easier that way too)
1296 2011-05-07 12:41:38 <sipa> ah no, not necessary, as ekey and key are separate in the wallet.dat file
1297 2011-05-07 12:41:56 <BlueMatt> well if someone does -nocrypt new keys should be key not ekey
1298 2011-05-07 12:41:59 <sipa> you have 2 separate options actually
1299 2011-05-07 12:42:09 <sipa> 1) which key to use for decryption (and encryption of new keys)
1300 2011-05-07 12:42:15 <BlueMatt> obviously read would be right either way
1301 2011-05-07 12:42:17 <sipa> 2) do we want new keys to be encrypted or not?
1302 2011-05-07 12:42:34 <BlueMatt> true...
1303 2011-05-07 12:42:38 allied has quit ()
1304 2011-05-07 12:42:50 <BlueMatt> yea, so gui needs some real work instead of "Please enter password..."
1305 2011-05-07 12:42:58 <BlueMatt> alright...Ill go take a look
1306 2011-05-07 12:43:16 <sipa> you could have an option for not prompting for a password
1307 2011-05-07 12:43:32 <BlueMatt> I think dont ask for password until wallet loading finds an ekey
1308 2011-05-07 12:43:45 <sipa> or encryption is wanted
1309 2011-05-07 12:43:49 <BlueMatt> yea
1310 2011-05-07 12:43:57 <BlueMatt> so maybe the ask for password should be in CCrypter?
1311 2011-05-07 12:43:59 <sipa> which should be default probably
1312 2011-05-07 12:44:04 <sipa> imho, no
1313 2011-05-07 12:44:06 <jgarzik> gpg and other keyring software encrypts private keys by default.
1314 2011-05-07 12:44:13 <jgarzik> that should be the norm for bitcoin
1315 2011-05-07 12:44:15 <sipa> CCrypter shouldn't do UI
1316 2011-05-07 12:44:20 <BlueMatt> yea, encrypt by default agree totally
1317 2011-05-07 12:44:25 <sipa> yes, agree
1318 2011-05-07 12:45:03 <sipa> maybe it is easier to say: a wallet is either entirely encrypted, or not encrypted at all?
1319 2011-05-07 12:45:26 <jgarzik> sipa: no, because that involves a more serious wallet upgrade
1320 2011-05-07 12:45:44 <sipa> and that second option only exists as a compatibily case
1321 2011-05-07 12:45:52 <BlueMatt> problem is, I dont want to ask the user for password until ekey is found and then ask for encryption password until later
1322 2011-05-07 12:46:10 <BlueMatt> and I obviously cant ask for password in LoadWallet
1323 2011-05-07 12:46:13 BitMark has joined
1324 2011-05-07 12:46:41 <BlueMatt> I think current implementation is pretty good, but "encrypt existing unencrypted keys" is very much needed
1325 2011-05-07 12:46:42 <sipa> i think for now you can stick to always asking a password
1326 2011-05-07 12:47:08 <BlueMatt> well Im not gonna make a pull req until it is to the point that it is ready for end-users
1327 2011-05-07 12:47:15 <sipa> also, bitcoind should support reading a passphrase for a fd i think
1328 2011-05-07 12:47:19 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it sounds like the job of a simple, external program to backup wallet, then encrypt keys
1329 2011-05-07 12:47:34 <sipa> encrypting existing keys sounds very easy?
1330 2011-05-07 12:47:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, it just needs done
1331 2011-05-07 12:48:02 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I disagree, for end users, making them run another program is overcomplicated
1332 2011-05-07 12:48:45 <sipa> you *could* do it in LoadWallet, if a key (not ekey) is found, convert it to ekey immediately
1333 2011-05-07 12:48:48 <grbgout> But there are certainly distinct roles bitcoin performs: node, wallet, miner; doesn't it make sense to isolate each for optimization of the role?
1334 2011-05-07 12:49:20 <BlueMatt> grbgout: yes, it does, but who has time to split that?
1335 2011-05-07 12:49:25 <sipa> yes, it is a combination of a lot of things
1336 2011-05-07 12:49:58 <grbgout> BlueMatt: such is the benefit of FOSS projects.  It can be planned for, and addressed as time permits.
1337 2011-05-07 12:50:20 * sipa has a split of a part of the code planned, but time...
1338 2011-05-07 12:50:44 <BitMark> sipa: do you mean fork?
1339 2011-05-07 12:50:47 <sipa> no
1340 2011-05-07 12:50:59 <BlueMatt> grbgout: its pretty much planned, everyone would want it, but just needs done...but no one has time
1341 2011-05-07 12:51:02 <grbgout> an all in one application certainly makes sense for end users, which the current bitcoin fills well.
1342 2011-05-07 12:51:08 <sipa> i mean a reoganisation of the code, for now
1343 2011-05-07 12:51:17 <grbgout> BlueMatt: is the plan posted anywhere?
1344 2011-05-07 12:51:18 <BlueMatt> which is the first step
1345 2011-05-07 12:51:32 <grbgout> I'll brb.
1346 2011-05-07 12:51:35 <BlueMatt> grbgout: not planned, but there is no point planning it until someone actually has time to do it
1347 2011-05-07 12:51:45 <BlueMatt> otherwise it is a waste of time
1348 2011-05-07 12:51:50 <jgarzik> Conceptually speaking, yes, an upgrade is easy.  But you must do it carefully.  Users really do upgrade -> downgrade -> upgrade.
1349 2011-05-07 12:52:13 <BlueMatt> yea, thats the problem I have
1350 2011-05-07 12:52:14 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: indeed.  pie in the sky plans for "some day" are rarely a good idea.
1351 2011-05-07 12:52:26 <xelister> lol @ usafags btw
1352 2011-05-07 12:52:34 <xelister> is that really how usually they do it?  http://i.imgur.com/SONjA.png
1353 2011-05-07 12:52:43 <BlueMatt> Id like it to be a bit more "Your keys will now be encrypted and you can't downgrade ok?" on startup
1354 2011-05-07 12:52:45 <sipa> ideal situation would be: user fires up new version, question "It seems your wallet is not encrypted. Do you want to encrypt it now? Warning: Versions 0.3.21 and below will not be able to read this anymore"
1355 2011-05-07 12:52:57 <xelister> buying beer ... this ID card looks fake... I'M CALLING THE COPS?  seriously?
1356 2011-05-07 12:53:11 <xelister> sipa: yeap sounds good
1357 2011-05-07 12:53:14 <BlueMatt> in either case, gui needs a ton more work
1358 2011-05-07 12:53:22 <sipa> BlueMatt: and for that, it is actually easier to have a single random-generated aes256 key in the wallet itself
1359 2011-05-07 12:53:33 <sipa> BlueMatt: and encrypt that with the passphase provided
1360 2011-05-07 12:53:45 <xelister> jgarzik: so what is better option then planning for future?
1361 2011-05-07 12:54:02 <BlueMatt> yea but the advantage of that is not worth implementing over just KISS IMHO
1362 2011-05-07 12:54:35 <sipa> it will allow you to easily change passphrases
1363 2011-05-07 12:54:40 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: do you change the IV for each encryption, now?  I didn't look closely at that yet.
1364 2011-05-07 12:54:48 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yes
1365 2011-05-07 12:54:50 <sipa> or even have separate passphrases in one wallet
1366 2011-05-07 12:55:05 <grbgout> BlueMatt: but if it's planned, then people can work on it as time becomes available.  This is an open-source project, there are plenty of drive-by programmers out there.
1367 2011-05-07 12:55:06 <BlueMatt> yes but honestly its not _that_ hard to change pass so...
1368 2011-05-07 12:55:22 <sipa> BlueMatt: no it's not, but it requires looping over the entire wallet
1369 2011-05-07 12:55:26 <BlueMatt> grbgout: there are better projects for drive-byers to work on
1370 2011-05-07 12:55:33 <sipa> (as does upgrading and downgrading, anyway)
1371 2011-05-07 12:55:35 <BlueMatt> sipa: and that is _that_ hard?
1372 2011-05-07 12:55:38 <sipa> no
1373 2011-05-07 12:55:44 <sipa> but what if something fails?
1374 2011-05-07 12:55:50 <BlueMatt> well I dont plan on writing a downgrade feature honestly
1375 2011-05-07 12:55:52 <sipa> if the computer crashes in the middle
1376 2011-05-07 12:55:59 dishwara has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1377 2011-05-07 12:55:59 <BlueMatt> use bitcointools
1378 2011-05-07 12:56:03 WakiMiko has joined
1379 2011-05-07 12:56:06 <jgarzik> sipa: same comment for your suggested wallet upgrade
1380 2011-05-07 12:56:16 <sipa> how so?
1381 2011-05-07 12:56:37 <jgarzik> 'what if something fails' has to be handled either way
1382 2011-05-07 12:56:41 <sipa> you first add a walletkey field with the aes key, encrypted with a passphrase
1383 2011-05-07 12:56:53 <sipa> then atomically change all key's to ekey's
1384 2011-05-07 12:57:05 <sipa> atomically is the wrong word
1385 2011-05-07 12:57:14 dishwara has joined
1386 2011-05-07 12:57:16 <jgarzik> all that can be inside a single db4 transaction
1387 2011-05-07 12:57:22 <sipa> ok
1388 2011-05-07 12:57:26 <sipa> that should be enough
1389 2011-05-07 12:57:41 <sipa> i didn't know it had transactional features
1390 2011-05-07 12:57:44 <jgarzik> but you'd have to rework the code a bit.  transactions are stupid in bitcoin currently.
1391 2011-05-07 12:57:50 <grbgout> BlueMatt: I guess the current approach is that everyone works on what they think is best, and the sub-projects are adopted as they prove themselves or appear sound?
1392 2011-05-07 12:57:59 <jgarzik> db4 has powerful transactional features.  bitcoin uses them poorly.  :)
1393 2011-05-07 12:58:01 <BlueMatt> grbgout: pretty much
1394 2011-05-07 12:58:39 <sipa> BlueMatt: well, change passphrase can be nicely implemented as downgrade wallet + upgrade again :)
1395 2011-05-07 12:58:46 <BlueMatt> though doing it manually is also simple, dont delete key until ekey is written ;)
1396 2011-05-07 12:58:58 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1397 2011-05-07 12:59:09 <jgarzik> grbgout: Yep.  That's the only way to do it, for big projects.  Any Grand Roadmap will be widely ignored, as people work on what they need / want anyway.
1398 2011-05-07 12:59:15 <BlueMatt> sipa: simpler to just rewrite with new keys since privkeys are in ram anyway
1399 2011-05-07 12:59:37 <sipa> BlueMatt: which does not have the incomplete transaction failure, as either the old passphrase or the new passphrase will work
1400 2011-05-07 12:59:40 <grbgout> jgarzik: true, but it can't hurt to at least have it available for those who might want to jump in to get their feet wet.
1401 2011-05-07 13:00:06 <jgarzik> grbgout: that's a list of 'newbie projects', not a roadmap
1402 2011-05-07 13:00:17 <grbgout> jgarzik: that's not quite what I meant.
1403 2011-05-07 13:00:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: if bitcoin crashes in the middle, bitcointools is always there to help...honestly I dont think its worth spending too much time on bitcoinfailed, recover wallet
1404 2011-05-07 13:00:28 <grbgout> jgarzik: unless you're referring to an actual list of 'newbie projects'.
1405 2011-05-07 13:00:52 <BlueMatt> thats a completely separate project
1406 2011-05-07 13:01:05 <BlueMatt> anyway, I have to go, ttyl
1407 2011-05-07 13:01:09 <jgarzik> grbgout: not just a list of newbie projects, but a community to welcome newbies and get them into project coding with mentoring, project lists, discussion areas, etc.  http://kernelnewbies.org/
1408 2011-05-07 13:01:38 <grbgout> jgarzik: eh, I meant specifically for bitcoin, and was speaking more about a roadmap, but w/e.  Doesn't matter.
1409 2011-05-07 13:01:48 <grbgout> I've seen kernelnewbies.org before.
1410 2011-05-07 13:01:55 <jgarzik> grbgout: then I go back to:  roadmaps don't work :)
1411 2011-05-07 13:02:12 <sipa> BlueMatt: well, i think it will definitely happen, and people will complain :)
1412 2011-05-07 13:02:13 <grbgout> ;)
1413 2011-05-07 13:02:15 dishwara has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1414 2011-05-07 13:02:31 <jgarzik> A list of near-term engineering needs is always useful.  But goals without engineering needs put the cart before the horse.
1415 2011-05-07 13:02:36 <sipa> if you have a loop function to upgrade a wallet, it's easy to make it support downgrading as well
1416 2011-05-07 13:02:56 <sipa> and you can call it twice to change a passphrase
1417 2011-05-07 13:03:01 allied has joined
1418 2011-05-07 13:03:44 <grbgout> jgarzik: well that's what I meant, a roadmap of engineered goals.  But I suppose the project is still early enough to not have a full end-point in mind/sight.
1419 2011-05-07 13:04:07 diki has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1420 2011-05-07 13:04:23 <jgarzik> Who says there needs to be an endpoint?  Software lives and changes as needs change.
1421 2011-05-07 13:04:29 <grbgout> Indeed.
1422 2011-05-07 13:05:54 dishwara has joined
1423 2011-05-07 13:06:59 <cosurgi> luke-jr: why I got only 4.45 in this block? Shouldn't I get (3/20)*50=7.5 ?
1424 2011-05-07 13:07:44 <grbgout> cosurgi: there are fees...
1425 2011-05-07 13:08:09 <grbgout> "Pool keeps all transaction fees to itself, plus 0.00000001 BTC per second since last-found block"
1426 2011-05-07 13:08:21 <grbgout> perhaps it was a long time since the last-found block.
1427 2011-05-07 13:08:35 <sipa> yes, but not 22.5 million seconds
1428 2011-05-07 13:08:41 <sipa> that's about 8 months
1429 2011-05-07 13:08:59 <sipa> ugh
1430 2011-05-07 13:09:01 <sipa> 30.5
1431 2011-05-07 13:09:04 <sipa> that's a year
1432 2011-05-07 13:10:24 <grbgout> cosurgi: what's the 3/20 ? Your shares over total for the block?  Seems kinda small.
1433 2011-05-07 13:11:00 <cosurgi> my power vs. pool power.
1434 2011-05-07 13:14:07 <grbgout> cosurgi: ah, well it's based on the number of shares over the total shares to solve the block.
1435 2011-05-07 13:14:33 <cosurgi> it's exactly proportional.
1436 2011-05-07 13:14:57 <grbgout> jgarzik: I'm trying to remember a quote about planning.  The gist being that it's important to plan, and be prepared to toss the plan --- i.e. to adapt to the situation.  I think churchill said it.
1437 2011-05-07 13:15:01 <cosurgi> grbgout: are you in luke-jr's pool?
1438 2011-05-07 13:15:06 <CIA-30> bitcoin: genjix exper * ra4a8f8..4e4075 intersango/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (5 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3dynz2e
1439 2011-05-07 13:15:07 <grbgout> cosurgi: nope.
1440 2011-05-07 13:15:44 <xelister> cosurgi: trolololo the pool rips you off?
1441 2011-05-07 13:16:08 <grbgout> xelister: maybe he's just trying to understand how the payout works?
1442 2011-05-07 13:16:31 <xelister> maybe
1443 2011-05-07 13:16:38 <xelister> I wonder if all pools are honest
1444 2011-05-07 13:17:06 <grbgout> Probably not.
1445 2011-05-07 13:17:32 <random_> has anybody released a php library that can verify blocks?
1446 2011-05-07 13:21:39 <jgarzik> can php do that?  I thought all it could do it print html
1447 2011-05-07 13:21:43 * jgarzik runs
1448 2011-05-07 13:22:50 <random_> lol!  of course php could do that....
1449 2011-05-07 13:22:51 <sipa> jgarzik: yes, though you can probably make PHP output C code, and invoke a C compiler, though
1450 2011-05-07 13:23:00 <random_> there is no C needed...
1451 2011-05-07 13:23:06 <random_> it could be done in straight PHP
1452 2011-05-07 13:24:26 <sipa> of course
1453 2011-05-07 13:26:35 <xelister> php can even do gui
1454 2011-05-07 13:26:38 <xelister> afair in gtk =)
1455 2011-05-07 13:26:55 <xelister> random_: C is crazy =)
1456 2011-05-07 13:27:42 <random_> what do you mean C is crazy?
1457 2011-05-07 13:29:45 <random_> so am I correct in thinking that satoshi was mining all through 2009 and 2010?  I've heard that the genesis block is like 25k or something, but what about all those blocks before then?
1458 2011-05-07 13:29:51 <xelister> C stands for Crazy Code
1459 2011-05-07 13:29:55 <random_> does satoshi have a huge pile of bitcoins somewhere?
1460 2011-05-07 13:30:10 <grbgout> nah, he spent them all on hookers and blow.
1461 2011-05-07 13:30:14 <random_> lol...
1462 2011-05-07 13:30:17 <xelister> and crack
1463 2011-05-07 13:30:22 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1464 2011-05-07 13:30:35 bk128 has joined
1465 2011-05-07 13:31:06 dishwara has quit (Quit: Buy my shares DISHWARA @ glbse.com)
1466 2011-05-07 13:31:23 <sipa> random_: the genesis block has a reward of 50 BTC, like all others
1467 2011-05-07 13:31:29 <sipa> and those 50 BTC are not spent yet
1468 2011-05-07 13:31:43 <random_> right, but what about blocks 0 - 20000?
1469 2011-05-07 13:31:52 <random_> are they spendable?
1470 2011-05-07 13:32:04 forrestv has joined
1471 2011-05-07 13:32:14 diki has joined
1472 2011-05-07 13:32:29 <grbgout> Why wouldn't they be?
1473 2011-05-07 13:32:46 <random_> does satoshi have 5,000,000 BTC?
1474 2011-05-07 13:33:23 <random_> if he does then holy crap this project paid off...
1475 2011-05-07 13:33:24 <random_> lol
1476 2011-05-07 13:33:33 <grbgout> !bc,totalbc
1477 2011-05-07 13:33:44 <diki> So guys, how i do i read an address from variable that contains the address of a pointer to a null-terminated Unicode string?
1478 2011-05-07 13:33:56 <UukGoblin> this is one of the best projects ever so why wouldn't it pay out ;-]
1479 2011-05-07 13:34:02 <grbgout> ;;bc,totalbc
1480 2011-05-07 13:34:03 <gribble> 6122850.00000000
1481 2011-05-07 13:34:27 <random_> so you're copying a pointer?
1482 2011-05-07 13:34:30 <grbgout> So, if satoshi has 5M BTC, then there are only 1122850 in circulation.
1483 2011-05-07 13:34:52 <diki> i want to read what that pointer's address contains
1484 2011-05-07 13:35:07 <random_> so you need a double pointer
1485 2011-05-07 13:35:10 <random_> int**
1486 2011-05-07 13:35:12 <random_> right?
1487 2011-05-07 13:35:42 <random_> gimme some code - that would be more clear
1488 2011-05-07 13:36:23 <diki> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb762188.aspx
1489 2011-05-07 13:36:49 <diki> SHGetKnownFolderPath's ppszPath method returns what i need in the form of an address
1490 2011-05-07 13:37:50 <diki> the path to the folder, however i have no idea how to display the path
1491 2011-05-07 13:38:13 grbgout has quit (Quit: leaving)
1492 2011-05-07 13:38:46 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1493 2011-05-07 13:39:05 <ArtForz> whats so hard about that?
1494 2011-05-07 13:39:30 <diki> i tried re_interpretcast
1495 2011-05-07 13:39:55 <ArtForz> oh, in c-plus-retarded
1496 2011-05-07 13:40:00 <UukGoblin> I've written an auto-throttler :-]
1497 2011-05-07 13:40:22 <random_> can't you just declare a PWSTR and set it equal to that?
1498 2011-05-07 13:40:34 <UukGoblin> no longer should closing the window during rain cause GPUs to burn
1499 2011-05-07 13:40:38 <xelister> ArtForz: hm? C++ at least is high level
1500 2011-05-07 13:40:50 <ArtForz> lol
1501 2011-05-07 13:40:51 <ArtForz> c++? high level?
1502 2011-05-07 13:40:58 <xelister> where you dont have to fuck with lowlevel when you are doing more interesting stuff then mallocs
1503 2011-05-07 13:41:09 tcatm has joined
1504 2011-05-07 13:41:11 <ArtForz> it's C with some high level features thrown in
1505 2011-05-07 13:41:12 <sipa> C++ is object-oriented sugar for assembly
1506 2011-05-07 13:41:16 <ArtForz> yep
1507 2011-05-07 13:41:20 <xelister> are you retards
1508 2011-05-07 13:41:38 <sipa> no, and i like C++, but it's definitely not high level
1509 2011-05-07 13:41:40 <xelister> foreach entire container execute lamda function - seems rather high level
1510 2011-05-07 13:41:49 <ArtForz> C is portable assembler, C++ is portable assembler with OO that tries to hide shit from you
1511 2011-05-07 13:41:52 <xelister> forgetting about boost or what
1512 2011-05-07 13:41:59 <xelister> everythnig is in the end sugar for asm
1513 2011-05-07 13:42:14 <xelister> boost? hello
1514 2011-05-07 13:42:29 <random_> why so cynical?
1515 2011-05-07 13:42:34 <ArtForz> and who the fuck thoguht overloading the fucking shift operator for I/O was a good idea?
1516 2011-05-07 13:42:58 <sipa> haha
1517 2011-05-07 13:42:59 <xelister> ArtForz: it looks interesting... whats so wrong about it?
1518 2011-05-07 13:43:19 <xelister> lots of  << diff << 2 or so? ;)
1519 2011-05-07 13:43:29 <xelister> outputed to debug ;)  (brace) it all anyway
1520 2011-05-07 13:43:39 <ArtForz> what does bitshifting a stream do?
1521 2011-05-07 13:43:57 <UukGoblin> huh it clocked one of my cypresses down to 585
1522 2011-05-07 13:43:58 <xelister> sending to?
1523 2011-05-07 13:44:00 <UukGoblin> to maintain < 80 deg
1524 2011-05-07 13:44:05 <xelister> would you prefer +
1525 2011-05-07 13:44:09 <UukGoblin> I think I might have set the limits too low
1526 2011-05-07 13:44:13 <ArtForz> arithmetic operators have meanings, using em for totally unrelated stuff is just fucking crazy
1527 2011-05-07 13:44:39 <xelister> ArtForz: think outside the box, who said they need to be arithmetic only
1528 2011-05-07 13:44:49 <xelister> strnig + string is not arithmetic as well
1529 2011-05-07 13:45:15 <sipa> but you can define an addition for strings
1530 2011-05-07 13:45:33 <xelister> anyway, coding in C is just mental, so much time goes to hand-fucking with strings and memory and distracts from real task
1531 2011-05-07 13:46:06 <random_> it goes quick when you're used to it
1532 2011-05-07 13:46:12 <xelister> sipa: and you can define adding for streams, or call "<<" outputing, I  do not see what is bad in this
1533 2011-05-07 13:46:43 Stellar has joined
1534 2011-05-07 13:46:55 <xelister> random_: some things ultimatelly you can't do nicelly in C since lack of destructors, and no matter you do, you WILL have to do some stuff totally by hand each and every time, wasting time, making oopportunity for bugs
1535 2011-05-07 13:47:04 <ArtForz> not to mention you can use a high-level language for high-level stuff
1536 2011-05-07 13:47:11 <ArtForz> xelister: like... leaking object references
1537 2011-05-07 13:47:33 <xelister> well then what language would you use?
1538 2011-05-07 13:47:41 <random_> true, but it really doesn't take that long.  I fin that I spend more time groaning about all that tedious stuff than I spend actually doing it
1539 2011-05-07 13:47:47 <ArtForz> for high-level stuff? python
1540 2011-05-07 13:47:53 <xelister> compilable fast language, where you dont have to fuck with pointers etc when you dont need to
1541 2011-05-07 13:47:55 <xelister> ArtForz: LOL WHAT?
1542 2011-05-07 13:47:58 <ArtForz> with C extensions for things that actually need to be fast
1543 2011-05-07 13:48:19 <xelister> what if entire program needs to be rather fast
1544 2011-05-07 13:48:19 <sipa> Haskell!
1545 2011-05-07 13:48:32 <ArtForz> xelister: what weird kind of program is that?
1546 2011-05-07 13:48:34 <xelister> e.g. not just isolating the important stuff to C++ module or OpenCL
1547 2011-05-07 13:48:43 <xelister> ArtForz: pool server overall just needs to work fast
1548 2011-05-07 13:48:51 <xelister> in every operation it does
1549 2011-05-07 13:49:00 <sipa> far from it
1550 2011-05-07 13:49:07 <xelister> there is not really just one thing like "rendering 3d" or "sorting" you can isolate to other module
1551 2011-05-07 13:49:24 <ArtForz> xelister: implement it in a decent manner and even a python one can handle 1000s of miners without even trying
1552 2011-05-07 13:49:28 <sipa> the only thing that needs to be fast in a pool server is verifying the submitted work
1553 2011-05-07 13:49:44 <sipa> which is typically not done by the pool server itself, but just by bitcoind
1554 2011-05-07 13:49:47 <ArtForz> and building new work to be sent out
1555 2011-05-07 13:49:53 <xelister> if it logs slow,  parses requests slow, switches tasks slow,  slowly accesses DB, slowly cache recent hashes, slowly report progress - it will eventually all work suboptimal
1556 2011-05-07 13:49:55 <sipa> oh yes, that too, even more so
1557 2011-05-07 13:50:00 <ArtForz> as bitcoind is way too slow, it's easier to do half of getwork i nthe poold
1558 2011-05-07 13:50:40 <sipa> xelister: and even if you do all those things very slowly, it will still spend 95% of the time creating getworks and verifying them
1559 2011-05-07 13:50:40 <xelister> well dunno
1560 2011-05-07 13:50:45 <random_> so where is the best resource to learn about the data structure of blocks?  I still don't really understand what the 'data' and 'hash' and 'midstate' and 'merkle root' are...
1561 2011-05-07 13:50:47 <ArtForz> = change the coinbase bnExtraNonce yourself and recalc the merkleroot
1562 2011-05-07 13:50:53 <xelister> we would have to have a well written c++ pool servrer to really compare them
1563 2011-05-07 13:52:00 [Tycho] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1564 2011-05-07 13:52:03 <BitMark> is poold open source?
1565 2011-05-07 13:52:17 <xelister> python pool by jgarzik is open eource
1566 2011-05-07 13:52:20 <xelister> *open source
1567 2011-05-07 13:52:24 <BitMark> ah cool
1568 2011-05-07 13:53:49 <ArtForz> btw, to do the merkle root recalc in the pool server you need a modified getwork that gives you the whole block and takes a bnExtraNonce param for solutions
1569 2011-05-07 13:54:03 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1570 2011-05-07 13:55:33 echelon has joined
1571 2011-05-07 13:56:03 <BitMark> so requires a modified bitcoind then
1572 2011-05-07 13:56:25 <ArtForz> my theoretical pool server does
1573 2011-05-07 13:57:04 <ArtForz> in reality I'm running a modified bitcoind that pushes work to the daemon that pushes work to my miners
1574 2011-05-07 13:57:22 <ArtForz> as getwork is just way too fucking inefficient imo
1575 2011-05-07 13:57:23 <BitMark> interesting
1576 2011-05-07 13:57:44 <BitMark> how does it know what rate to push?
1577 2011-05-07 13:57:48 <ArtForz> what?
1578 2011-05-07 13:57:49 <sipa> i wonder how hard it is to structure mapTransactions in bitcoind already in a merkle tree, with intermediate merkle nodes cached
1579 2011-05-07 13:58:11 <ArtForz> it doesnt have to
1580 2011-05-07 13:58:19 <random_> ArtForz, I've benchmarked bitcoind on a crappy server and it can keep up with >1k getwork/sec...
1581 2011-05-07 13:58:31 <ArtForz> random_: no it can't
1582 2011-05-07 13:58:38 <random_> uh...  well it did
1583 2011-05-07 13:58:46 <ArtForz> lemme guess, with 0 transactions queued
1584 2011-05-07 13:58:51 <random_> true
1585 2011-05-07 13:59:00 <ArtForz> wait until you have 1000 in txpool, then try again
1586 2011-05-07 13:59:08 marlowe has joined
1587 2011-05-07 13:59:16 <ArtForz> it scales positively horribly
1588 2011-05-07 13:59:18 <sipa> ArtForz: how would you do it?
1589 2011-05-07 13:59:25 <ArtForz> do what?
1590 2011-05-07 13:59:28 <sipa> calculate the merkle roots yourself?
1591 2011-05-07 13:59:31 <ArtForz> yep
1592 2011-05-07 13:59:38 <ArtForz> thats what I do
1593 2011-05-07 13:59:43 <sipa> that's of course possible too
1594 2011-05-07 13:59:52 <sipa> but it would be nice if bitcoind did it efficiently by itself
1595 2011-05-07 13:59:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh I have no doubt people will complain when their wallet gets corrupted because bitcoin crashed, the thing is, I dont think that should be recovered manually as its too much "if this then that" for very specific fringe cases and at then end there is no one a couple wont be missed.  Id much rather see bitcointools handle it manually
1596 2011-05-07 13:59:57 <ArtForz> yes
1597 2011-05-07 14:00:25 <BlueMatt> s/recovered manually/recovered automatically/
1598 2011-05-07 14:00:43 <ArtForz> but as the powers that be decided that putting binary data in hex in a string in json over fake http is better than a binary protocol, getwork it is
1599 2011-05-07 14:01:07 <BitMark> yikes
1600 2011-05-07 14:01:25 <BitMark> would bson improve things?
1601 2011-05-07 14:01:44 <BitMark> or even protocol buffers
1602 2011-05-07 14:01:44 <sipa> just a dedicated mining protocol
1603 2011-05-07 14:01:51 <sipa> no need for anything complex
1604 2011-05-07 14:01:58 <ArtForz> well, at least it doesnt contain any xml (yet...)
1605 2011-05-07 14:02:07 <random_> it wouldn't be too hard to modify the source and client to send/receive in a different format...
1606 2011-05-07 14:02:15 <ArtForz> yep
1607 2011-05-07 14:02:18 <BitMark> nice to conform to some standard
1608 2011-05-07 14:02:18 <random_> I am actually considering it myself
1609 2011-05-07 14:02:19 <sipa> ArtForz: and doesn't support mining over SMTP
1610 2011-05-07 14:02:28 <random_> smtp?
1611 2011-05-07 14:02:29 <random_> lol
1612 2011-05-07 14:02:34 toffoo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1613 2011-05-07 14:02:36 <ArtForz> sipa: just uuencode it
1614 2011-05-07 14:02:39 toffoo has joined
1615 2011-05-07 14:02:41 <sipa> random_: old joke... all software evolves until it supports email
1616 2011-05-07 14:02:46 <ArtForz> yep
1617 2011-05-07 14:02:49 <BitMark> and send it over fidonet :)
1618 2011-05-07 14:03:04 <BlueMatt> will anyone bitch if I change LoadWallet to return int?
1619 2011-05-07 14:03:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: not if there's a good reason to
1620 2011-05-07 14:03:19 <sipa> what for?
1621 2011-05-07 14:03:44 <BlueMatt> the status of "we have ekeys+keys" or "we have only ekeys" or "we have only keys"
1622 2011-05-07 14:03:48 <BitMark> http://code.google.com/p/protobuf/
1623 2011-05-07 14:04:19 <davex__> ;;bc,stats
1624 2011-05-07 14:04:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 122459 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 516 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 153131.38798132
1625 2011-05-07 14:04:24 <BitMark> http://thrift.apache.org/
1626 2011-05-07 14:05:49 <xelister> OH ATI YOU SO CRAZY
1627 2011-05-07 14:05:56 <xelister> when you set fan speed say 60
1628 2011-05-07 14:06:11 <xelister> but you are mining on :2 , and primary display on box is :0 on say onboard intel
1629 2011-05-07 14:06:19 <ArtForz> sets fanspeed, says 60
1630 2011-05-07 14:06:21 <xelister> then the card after a while disregards the 60%
1631 2011-05-07 14:06:27 <xelister> and drops down to default
1632 2011-05-07 14:06:33 <xelister> resulting in say 90C
1633 2011-05-07 14:06:35 <xelister> thanks, Ati :)
1634 2011-05-07 14:06:43 <ArtForz> known bug
1635 2011-05-07 14:06:46 <random_> don't you love that sh*t?
1636 2011-05-07 14:06:56 <xelister> good thing that I puted it now in nohup loop of setfan.
1637 2011-05-07 14:07:02 <ArtForz> pretty normal for ATI
1638 2011-05-07 14:07:04 <random_>  lol...
1639 2011-05-07 14:07:05 <xelister> =)\
1640 2011-05-07 14:07:12 <random_> I am tempted to just use external cooling...
1641 2011-05-07 14:07:18 <random_> screw the onboard fan
1642 2011-05-07 14:07:37 <xelister> random_:  my buddies recommend oil merged board
1643 2011-05-07 14:07:39 <ArtForz> another fun part: od_gettemp sometimes returns 255 (=127.5°C) FNAR
1644 2011-05-07 14:07:40 <xelister> sounds cool
1645 2011-05-07 14:07:58 <random_> I was thinking about it but mineral oil is expensive
1646 2011-05-07 14:08:01 <xelister> it is?
1647 2011-05-07 14:08:04 <ArtForz> what?
1648 2011-05-07 14:08:07 <xelister> ???
1649 2011-05-07 14:08:15 <ArtForz> mineral oil? expensive?
1650 2011-05-07 14:08:17 <ArtForz> wtf?
1651 2011-05-07 14:08:20 <random_> and it would be horrible if the oil had some sort negative effect on the cards...
1652 2011-05-07 14:08:25 ButlerUSTM has joined
1653 2011-05-07 14:08:27 <ArtForz> oh, it will
1654 2011-05-07 14:08:27 <xelister> are you sure 'minetal oil' was not like a code name for some liquified heroin?    what shop did you asked? :D
1655 2011-05-07 14:08:44 <random_> yeah, it is for the quantity I'd need
1656 2011-05-07 14:08:54 <xelister> it is ok to submeerge the cards + mobo
1657 2011-05-07 14:08:56 <random_> like 50 gallons
1658 2011-05-07 14:08:58 <xelister> no need to submerge entire home
1659 2011-05-07 14:09:01 <random_> or more
1660 2011-05-07 14:09:05 <ArtForz> wtf?
1661 2011-05-07 14:09:19 <xelister> are you building rigs out of 250 gtx =)
1662 2011-05-07 14:09:24 <ArtForz> why that much?
1663 2011-05-07 14:09:29 <random_> no, mostly 5870
1664 2011-05-07 14:09:32 <random_> and 5970
1665 2011-05-07 14:09:49 <random_> 35x5870, 12x5970
1666 2011-05-07 14:10:05 <xelister> oh random u so crazy. ArtForz you had a son?
1667 2011-05-07 14:10:18 <BitMark> whats the flashpoint of mineral oil?
1668 2011-05-07 14:10:20 <xelister> =)
1669 2011-05-07 14:10:28 <xelister> MORE IMPORTANTLY
1670 2011-05-07 14:10:37 <ArtForz> BitMark: high enough
1671 2011-05-07 14:10:38 <xelister> can you frie french fries in mieral oil easly?
1672 2011-05-07 14:10:44 <ArtForz> mineral oil has 2 major problems
1673 2011-05-07 14:10:49 <xelister> radeon-fries
1674 2011-05-07 14:10:53 <BitMark> none that you would want to eat
1675 2011-05-07 14:11:02 <xelister> BitMark: it would taste like gold =)
1676 2011-05-07 14:11:11 <ArtForz> 1. embrittles PVC, 2. likes to wick *inside* cables
1677 2011-05-07 14:11:13 <BitMark> yum
1678 2011-05-07 14:11:14 <xelister> food of the bitcoin milioneres, quite
1679 2011-05-07 14:11:25 <random_> yeah - I've heard about the wicking problem
1680 2011-05-07 14:11:30 <xelister> wick?
1681 2011-05-07 14:11:35 <xelister> flow into?
1682 2011-05-07 14:11:35 <ArtForz> yep
1683 2011-05-07 14:11:52 <random_> and I have reason to believe that it does in fact slowly dissolve electronics
1684 2011-05-07 14:12:00 <ArtForz> it does
1685 2011-05-07 14:12:13 <xelister> how it flows INTO the cables
1686 2011-05-07 14:12:14 <random_> I saw an experiment once where a guy ran his desktop submerged for like 2 years but he had to change the oil after a year because it got real cloudy
1687 2011-05-07 14:12:31 <ArtForz> xelister: through the end, duh
1688 2011-05-07 14:12:31 <random_> cloudy = electronics dissolving XD
1689 2011-05-07 14:12:34 <xelister> skips the isolation and overflows the metall wires in V12 ?
1690 2011-05-07 14:12:40 <BitMark> solder flux is probably soluble in mineral oil
1691 2011-05-07 14:12:44 <ArtForz> it is
1692 2011-05-07 14:12:45 <xelister> what is its effect on cables?
1693 2011-05-07 14:12:50 <ButlerUSTM> why don't hackers use their million+ computer botnets to discover bitcoins?
1694 2011-05-07 14:13:07 <xelister> ButlerUSTM: ethicks.
1695 2011-05-07 14:13:10 <xelister> * ethics
1696 2011-05-07 14:13:21 * xelister fmphhhphh
1697 2011-05-07 14:13:24 <ArtForz> 1. it makes PVC isolation (used on prtty much all PSU wiring harnesses) brittle in a few *days*
1698 2011-05-07 14:13:28 <ButlerUSTM> what about malicious people?
1699 2011-05-07 14:13:28 <BitMark> ButlerUSTM: also probably more economical ways to use botnets
1700 2011-05-07 14:13:45 <xelister> most botnets probably do not have good GPUs
1701 2011-05-07 14:13:49 <ArtForz> 2. it creeps up the stranded copper *against gravity*
1702 2011-05-07 14:13:55 <random_> capillary action
1703 2011-05-07 14:14:00 <ArtForz> yep
1704 2011-05-07 14:14:10 <xelister> ArtForz: so overall it is a bad idea?
1705 2011-05-07 14:14:14 <random_> air cooling is just way cheaper
1706 2011-05-07 14:14:22 <xelister> is there something else?  like some speciall liquid
1707 2011-05-07 14:14:23 <ArtForz> no, overall it works, if you know how to deal with it
1708 2011-05-07 14:14:26 <random_> the problem is getting it ducted over the heatsinks...
1709 2011-05-07 14:14:29 <BitMark> even with the low thermal capacity
1710 2011-05-07 14:14:40 <ArtForz> air + water is a lot cheaper
1711 2011-05-07 14:15:15 <random_> water isn't cheap
1712 2011-05-07 14:15:22 <random_> almost doubles the cost of the cards
1713 2011-05-07 14:15:25 <ArtForz> compared to pretty much anything else, it is
1714 2011-05-07 14:15:27 <ArtForz> air for local cooling, water to get the heat out of the room
1715 2011-05-07 14:15:35 <random_> ah
1716 2011-05-07 14:15:42 <random_> I'm taking the giant fan route
1717 2011-05-07 14:15:45 <luke-jr> cosurgi: what address? where did your math come from?
1718 2011-05-07 14:16:00 <random_> it's just easier
1719 2011-05-07 14:16:10 <ArtForz> that works too, but has problems re. dust, mist, ...
1720 2011-05-07 14:16:19 <xelister> does humid (50% relative) air provides noticibly better cooling?
1721 2011-05-07 14:16:29 <ArtForz> nope
1722 2011-05-07 14:16:39 <xelister> but at least it reduces dusting of card?
1723 2011-05-07 14:16:49 <ArtForz> somewhat
1724 2011-05-07 14:16:55 <ArtForz> having a closed water loop with 2 heat exchangers means you can have a pretty much sealed server room
1725 2011-05-07 14:17:01 <xelister> how do you care about  your cards then?
1726 2011-05-07 14:17:09 <ArtForz> I don't
1727 2011-05-07 14:17:13 <xelister> >_>
1728 2011-05-07 14:17:38 <BitMark> http://youtu.be/nPjZvFuUKN8
1729 2011-05-07 14:17:39 <ArtForz> just simple intake filters, compressed air and a lint-free cloth wipe before selling em
1730 2011-05-07 14:18:15 <random_> do you sell often to refresh your stock? :P
1731 2011-05-07 14:18:19 <ArtForz> nah
1732 2011-05-07 14:18:48 <ArtForz> I sold off a good chunk of my older cards, only kept the 5970s and 5870s for now
1733 2011-05-07 14:18:56 <BitMark> when the 7xxx come out do you plan to sell?
1734 2011-05-07 14:19:09 <ArtForz> I'll probably sell those next month and buy another 19.2Gh of ASICs
1735 2011-05-07 14:19:16 <ArtForz> or maybe 13Gh/s of FPGAs
1736 2011-05-07 14:20:05 <xelister> how are the ASIC coming along
1737 2011-05-07 14:20:33 <sipa> ArtForz: why FPGA?
1738 2011-05-07 14:20:41 <ArtForz> sipa: why not?
1739 2011-05-07 14:21:04 <ArtForz> they're not THAT much more expensive, and can be used for other crypto stuff
1740 2011-05-07 14:21:14 <sipa> given that you already have done the start-up costs for the structured asics, i'd expect fpga's to be more expensive per Ghash/s
1741 2011-05-07 14:21:26 <ArtForz> they are, by about 50%
1742 2011-05-07 14:21:32 <ArtForz> still working on that SHA1 core for SL3
1743 2011-05-07 14:21:54 <ArtForz> with that one FPGAs should pretty much blow GPUs out of the water
1744 2011-05-07 14:22:02 <random_> do you plan to use these for something other than bitcoin then?
1745 2011-05-07 14:22:30 <ArtForz> not at the moment, though SL3 unlocking looks interesting
1746 2011-05-07 14:22:56 <ArtForz> for SHA1, a S6 LX150 should be able to hash faster than a 5870 ...
1747 2011-05-07 14:23:15 <ArtForz> while consuming about 7W
1748 2011-05-07 14:23:41 <random_> doesn't bitcoin use sha256? so why do you care about sha1?
1749 2011-05-07 14:24:04 <random_> and what is sl3?
1750 2011-05-07 14:24:21 <ArtForz> nothing. nothing at all.
1751 2011-05-07 14:24:34 <random_> lol...
1752 2011-05-07 14:24:35 <lolcat> ArtForz: Where do I order them?
1753 2011-05-07 14:24:56 <ArtForz> the chips? any decent distributor
1754 2011-05-07 14:25:23 * lolcat only uses indecent distributors
1755 2011-05-07 14:25:30 <random_> man, google only returns results on sl3 about nokia phone unlocking...
1756 2011-05-07 14:25:44 <ArtForz> wow, who would've thought
1757 2011-05-07 14:25:51 <random_> surely thats not what you meant?
1758 2011-05-07 14:25:56 <ArtForz> sure is
1759 2011-05-07 14:25:58 <random_> lol
1760 2011-05-07 14:26:15 <lolcat> random_: ArtForz are building a bitcoin miner purley based on Symbian phones.
1761 2011-05-07 14:26:15 <ArtForz> sl3 is a 15-digit numeric code, about $10-15 per unlock for the hash farm
1762 2011-05-07 14:26:32 <random_> wow
1763 2011-05-07 14:26:48 <lolcat> ArtForz: My hash farm is far more profitable than that...
1764 2011-05-07 14:27:50 Incitatus has joined
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1766 2011-05-07 14:28:31 <ArtForz> and it will be forever, right?
1767 2011-05-07 14:28:55 <random_> and how long will sl3 unlocking be profitable?
1768 2011-05-07 14:29:38 <BitMark> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Band_5
1769 2011-05-07 14:30:04 <lolcat> ArtForz: Probably not. My bitcoins increased in value. Hash is pretty stable at the same flat rate.
1770 2011-05-07 14:30:45 <ArtForz> what?
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1772 2011-05-07 14:32:11 <lolcat> I don't understand what isn't clear about that sentence.
1773 2011-05-07 14:32:29 <edcba> last part
1774 2011-05-07 14:32:44 <ArtForz> "Hash is pretty stable at the same flat rate." <- ?!?
1775 2011-05-07 14:32:47 <foggyb> you want to calc hashes with a vespa scooter?
1776 2011-05-07 14:32:56 <foggyb> LX150
1777 2011-05-07 14:33:03 <lolcat> Hash doesn't really follow inflation.
1778 2011-05-07 14:33:17 <lolcat> it just stays the same price.
1779 2011-05-07 14:33:30 <ArtForz> in what alternate universe?
1780 2011-05-07 14:33:51 <diki> what would happen if two bitcoin clients have the same wallet.dat file and one of them tries to spend the btc?
1781 2011-05-07 14:33:55 <ArtForz> in this one, $/Gh keeps dropping overall
1782 2011-05-07 14:34:02 <BitMark> he is saying unlock hashing doesnt get harder with more people doing it
1783 2011-05-07 14:34:08 <ArtForz> yep
1784 2011-05-07 14:34:13 <ArtForz> but cheaper
1785 2011-05-07 14:34:26 * lolcat is talking about cannabis
1786 2011-05-07 14:34:29 <BitMark> diki: spends for both wallets
1787 2011-05-07 14:34:34 <sipa> diki: if the other one is running 0.3.21, the other will see its balance decreasing too
1788 2011-05-07 14:34:46 * ArtForz is talking about carrots
1789 2011-05-07 14:34:56 <diki> and if its running 0.3.20.2?
1790 2011-05-07 14:34:58 <sipa> hmmm carrots! </homer>
1791 2011-05-07 14:35:22 <sipa> diki: then it won't, and spends from the second node will probably be ignored by the network
1792 2011-05-07 14:35:29 <diki> anyway, why are they all beta?
1793 2011-05-07 14:35:36 <BitMark> if it doesnt rescan the blockchain it might attempt a double spend which would get ignored
1794 2011-05-07 14:35:50 <ArtForz> because beta is the new release
1795 2011-05-07 14:36:01 <ArtForz> havent you learned anything from google? :P
1796 2011-05-07 14:36:06 <diki> beta=testing
1797 2011-05-07 14:36:24 <diki> Stable release=speaks for itself
1798 2011-05-07 14:36:30 <BitMark> beta= subject to potentially future incompatible changes
1799 2011-05-07 14:36:36 <ArtForz> yep
1800 2011-05-07 14:37:11 <sipa> alpha = will probably fuck up your computer system
1801 2011-05-07 14:37:13 <BitMark> ;;google bitcoin incidents
1802 2011-05-07 14:37:13 <gribble> Value overflow incident.. August 15, 2010 - Bitcoin: <http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6290.0>; incidents [Old Bitcoin Wiki (obsolete)]: <http://www.bitcoin.org/wiki/doku.php?id=incidents>; Bitcoin - Bitcoin: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin>
1803 2011-05-07 14:37:16 <sipa> beta = works
1804 2011-05-07 14:37:27 <sipa> neither = we're older than google
1805 2011-05-07 14:38:10 <ArtForz> btw, why are there no gamma releases?
1806 2011-05-07 14:38:34 <BitMark> gmail is out of beta in case though anyone didnt notice
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1808 2011-05-07 14:38:41 <ArtForz> sounds way cooler than -RC
1809 2011-05-07 14:39:01 <BitMark> cause gamma releases are harmful to human health o_O
1810 2011-05-07 14:39:32 <BitMark> i guess so is beta and alpha decay
1811 2011-05-07 14:39:42 <diki> oh, yeah, a gamma burst can kill a nanosuit 2.0 wearer
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1818 2011-05-07 15:03:10 <luke-jr> fwiw, if you get a lot of 'miner is idle', try prioritizing (QoS) port 8337 ;)
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1820 2011-05-07 15:03:45 <ArtForz> beet?
1821 2011-05-07 15:04:53 <luke-jr> beet?
1822 2011-05-07 15:05:20 <luke-jr> (even if you don't, prioritizing it might help us avoid stale blocks)
1823 2011-05-07 15:05:56 <ArtForz> 1337, leet
1824 2011-05-07 15:05:58 <lulzplzkthx> ;;bc,mtgox
1825 2011-05-07 15:05:58 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":3.61,"low":3.425,"vol":8149,"buy":3.5,"sell":3.55,"last":3.5}}
1826 2011-05-07 15:06:00 <ArtForz> 8337, beet
1827 2011-05-07 15:06:16 <ArtForz> guess beet is the new carrot
1828 2011-05-07 15:07:26 <genjix> port beet
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1830 2011-05-07 15:11:22 <xelister> mmm beet
1831 2011-05-07 15:12:09 <luke-jr> ArtForz: 8337 was just the example port in pushpool config :P
1832 2011-05-07 15:12:34 <luke-jr> anyhow, I need to find a decent keyboard
1833 2011-05-07 15:12:37 <luke-jr> this one I have now SUCKS
1834 2011-05-07 15:12:47 <luke-jr> half the time I think I press a key, I have to go back and try again
1835 2011-05-07 15:12:59 <luke-jr> and the backslash is on the bottom next to shift
1836 2011-05-07 15:13:01 <luke-jr> wtf?
1837 2011-05-07 15:13:05 <ArtForz> don't buy cheap shit
1838 2011-05-07 15:13:49 <ArtForz> I've been using the same cherry keyboard for over a decade
1839 2011-05-07 15:13:52 <luke-jr> so where do I find a good one?
1840 2011-05-07 15:14:00 <luke-jr> ideally already dvorak
1841 2011-05-07 15:14:18 <luke-jr> I had to replace my kb cuz my new mobo has no PS/2 port
1842 2011-05-07 15:14:25 <edcba> so are you sure dvorak is better ?
1843 2011-05-07 15:14:57 <luke-jr> edcba: ?
1844 2011-05-07 15:15:00 <ArtForz> and nobody makes active ps2/din to usb adapters, so all the model M owners are doomed, DOOMED!
1845 2011-05-07 15:15:10 <ArtForz> oh, wait...
1846 2011-05-07 15:15:18 <luke-jr> ArtForz: my old kb wasn't so great either
1847 2011-05-07 15:15:21 <luke-jr> just not this bad
1848 2011-05-07 15:15:41 <edcba> why do you use dvorak ?
1849 2011-05-07 15:15:44 <ArtForz> lemme guess, rubber mat crap
1850 2011-05-07 15:15:53 <luke-jr> edcba: it's better?
1851 2011-05-07 15:16:00 <ArtForz> at what?
1852 2011-05-07 15:16:02 <luke-jr> ArtForz: wtf?
1853 2011-05-07 15:16:09 <luke-jr> what's rubber mat
1854 2011-05-07 15:16:21 <ArtForz> oh god, a keyswitch noob
1855 2011-05-07 15:16:33 <luke-jr> how would I know what keyswitch this has?
1856 2011-05-07 15:16:40 <edcba> fingers ?
1857 2011-05-07 15:16:43 <ArtForz> dude, it's obvious from feel
1858 2011-05-07 15:16:56 <luke-jr> maybe if you have experience comparing keyboards…
1859 2011-05-07 15:17:13 <edcba> like buying one ?
1860 2011-05-07 15:17:18 <luke-jr> …
1861 2011-05-07 15:17:21 <ArtForz> rubber mat = mushy uselessness
1862 2011-05-07 15:17:25 <luke-jr> you mean in a store?
1863 2011-05-07 15:17:46 <ArtForz> lol, I havent seen a decent keyboard in a store in ages
1864 2011-05-07 15:18:22 <luke-jr> I guess more important than Dvorak, would be finding some keyboard/stickers that can label
1865 2011-05-07 15:18:22 <ArtForz> same cheap crap, now with 20 useless multimedia buttons and blue LEDs that can double as a ceiling flood
1866 2011-05-07 15:18:27 <grbgout> ArtForz: what do you mean by "active" ps2/din to usb adapter?  I have a ps/2 to usb adapter, not sure if it's "active", though, depending on what you mean by that.
1867 2011-05-07 15:18:50 <xelister> oh ArtForz u so elitist
1868 2011-05-07 15:19:01 <xelister> but yea good keyboard is the basis
1869 2011-05-07 15:19:05 <ArtForz> oh, and wireless, because we all love to carry our keyboards around and replace batteries
1870 2011-05-07 15:19:17 <xelister> wireless keybord?
1871 2011-05-07 15:19:25 * xelister slaps ArtForz with a noobclub
1872 2011-05-07 15:19:35 <ArtForz> well, thats the shit available in stores
1873 2011-05-07 15:19:44 <xelister> sorry I missread :P
1874 2011-05-07 15:19:51 <xelister> you where being ironic
1875 2011-05-07 15:19:56 <ArtForz> yep
1876 2011-05-07 15:20:08 <xelister> also wireless keyboards seem to be totally hackable - sniffable and overtakable
1877 2011-05-07 15:20:15 <xelister> although Im not sure
1878 2011-05-07 15:20:24 <grbgout> shouldn't be too hard.
1879 2011-05-07 15:20:48 <ArtForz> yep, they're also totally pointless unless you use em for a media PC or as a external KB for a laptop or smth
1880 2011-05-07 15:21:31 <ArtForz> I can see the point of wireless mice, because the cord always finds ways to get in the way
1881 2011-05-07 15:21:51 <ArtForz> but wireless keyboards? they just. sit. there.
1882 2011-05-07 15:22:07 <grbgout> and x/y coordinates aren't nearly as revealing as the data sent over a wireless keyboard.
1883 2011-05-07 15:22:28 <xelister> heey that man seems to be playing flash hentai rape man. ARREST HIM for your protection
1884 2011-05-07 15:22:35 <xelister> *game
1885 2011-05-07 15:22:36 <ArtForz> if you want to add a feature to make your shit keyboard stand out from the other shit keyboards, add more USB ports
1886 2011-05-07 15:22:41 <edcba> hacking a pc through wireless mouse isn't easy i guess
1887 2011-05-07 15:23:12 <xelister> that man moves the mouse... LIKE A TERRORIST
1888 2011-05-07 15:23:19 <ArtForz> why the fuck doesnt every usb keyboard have at least a 4-port hub?
1889 2011-05-07 15:23:43 <ArtForz> and put at least 2 ports on top, theres plenty space above the LEDs
1890 2011-05-07 15:24:04 <xelister> I loved when they used to put SLEEP button right next above arrow keys
1891 2011-05-07 15:24:08 <grbgout> ArtForz: aren't you an electrical engineer?  Get on it!
1892 2011-05-07 15:24:25 <xelister> *bam* *bam*  that that headshot you evi--- wtf what "going to sleep mode"
1893 2011-05-07 15:24:41 <xelister> and loved how windows by default supported that key
1894 2011-05-07 15:24:54 <xelister> almost as bad as windows key fuckery years ago
1895 2011-05-07 15:24:59 <ArtForz> xelister: I saw one that had power/sleep/wake betwen prtscr/scrolllock/break and insert/home/pgup
1896 2011-05-07 15:25:05 <ArtForz> now THAT has to be annoying as hell
1897 2011-05-07 15:25:29 <xelister> yeap bellow leds is iobvous spade
1898 2011-05-07 15:25:34 <xelister> btw ever thought ot learn dvorak?
1899 2011-05-07 15:26:03 <ArtForz> nah, I'm happy with qwertz and qwerty
1900 2011-05-07 15:26:29 <ArtForz> and yes, I switch from german to us layout and back, coding with german layout suuuucks
1901 2011-05-07 15:26:44 <xelister> why there is a german layout
1902 2011-05-07 15:26:50 <ArtForz> umlauts
1903 2011-05-07 15:26:52 <xelister> we in pl do it like a man, use normal english keyboard
1904 2011-05-07 15:26:58 <xelister> and get national chars by alt+key
1905 2011-05-07 15:27:04 <ArtForz> they put the curly braces on crtl-alt-7 and ctrl-alt-9
1906 2011-05-07 15:27:08 <xelister> well RAlt+ke
1907 2011-05-07 15:27:08 <ArtForz> errr
1908 2011-05-07 15:27:09 <xelister> well RAlt+key
1909 2011-05-07 15:27:11 <ArtForz> yea
1910 2011-05-07 15:27:19 <ArtForz> Ralt-7 and Ralt-0
1911 2011-05-07 15:27:33 <ArtForz> and suqare brackets on Ralt - 8 and 9
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1913 2011-05-07 15:27:39 <xelister> by enabling this alts, you auto change y<->z
1914 2011-05-07 15:27:44 <xelister> ?
1915 2011-05-07 15:27:46 <ArtForz> yep
1916 2011-05-07 15:27:48 <xelister> lol wtf
1917 2011-05-07 15:27:56 <ArtForz> pretty easy once you get used to it
1918 2011-05-07 15:27:56 <xelister> can't you make a custom mapping?
1919 2011-05-07 15:28:03 <ArtForz> sure, but why bother?
1920 2011-05-07 15:28:18 <xelister> to have alt+X do ómlauts while being normal qwerty like a man
1921 2011-05-07 15:28:55 <xelister> heaving brain used to give place being one times Y other time Z will give you cancer
1922 2011-05-07 15:29:24 <ArtForz> not really
1923 2011-05-07 15:30:06 <ArtForz> learning a new keymap isn't too hard
1924 2011-05-07 15:30:13 <xelister> sure but switching
1925 2011-05-07 15:30:17 <xelister> daily
1926 2011-05-07 15:30:23 <xelister> well, would piss /me/ off ;)
1927 2011-05-07 15:30:27 <ArtForz> no problem
1928 2011-05-07 15:30:36 <ArtForz> well, okay, I switch keymap by app
1929 2011-05-07 15:31:06 <ArtForz> you get used to that really fast
1930 2011-05-07 15:31:50 <ArtForz> same way learning different key combos for common tasks is simple
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1966 2011-05-07 16:15:34 echelon has joined
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1968 2011-05-07 16:19:59 <rawry> ArtForz: hell, only reason I ever learned to type "correctly" was from changing key layouts and not being able to read the keys ;P
1969 2011-05-07 16:21:15 <rawry> (dvorak) ... did it while i was unemployed like 10 years ago when I started getting rsi problems on a whim... took 2 weeks to surpass previous typing speeds and noone touches my laptops, win/win
1970 2011-05-07 16:23:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: either my grep-fu sucks or no functions in bitcoin return a vector<...>& (which doesnt really make sense either?)
1971 2011-05-07 16:24:54 fabianhjr has joined
1972 2011-05-07 16:25:10 <BlueMatt> sipa: ignore my bableing
1973 2011-05-07 16:25:16 <rawry> BlueMatt: grepfu sucks,
1974 2011-05-07 16:25:22 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it makes sense.  it is pass-by-reference notation.  "int &foo" parameter to function 'baz' means that baz may modify the caller's copy of 'foo'.
1975 2011-05-07 16:25:24 <rawry> nm you figured it out
1976 2011-05-07 16:25:33 npouillard has joined
1977 2011-05-07 16:25:41 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea...I didnt read the original comment right
1978 2011-05-07 16:25:44 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it makes plenty of sense for arrays, by avoiding a copy
1979 2011-05-07 16:25:46 <fabianhjr> Damn, H67 i3-2100 is giving me a lot of troubles. It only boots in safefail and I must startx manually.
1980 2011-05-07 16:25:50 <fabianhjr> any Linux expert?
1981 2011-05-07 16:25:57 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: no the way I said it, returning it == invalid
1982 2011-05-07 16:26:08 * jgarzik was just being a lazy coder, because C++ will handle 'return' properly 
1983 2011-05-07 16:26:11 <BlueMatt> makes much sense for reference pass notation
1984 2011-05-07 16:26:26 <BlueMatt> and now /me has to deal with that ;)
1985 2011-05-07 16:28:06 * BlueMatt really needs more C++ experience before really coding on this :(
1986 2011-05-07 16:28:46 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: & is like *, but you can't pass NULL and don't use pointer syntax
1987 2011-05-07 16:29:13 allied has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1988 2011-05-07 16:29:16 <BlueMatt> yea, figured that out...
1989 2011-05-07 16:31:40 <ForceDestroyer> Can someone provide me with current block size / transaction fee rules?
1990 2011-05-07 16:32:06 <fabianhjr> Fee depends on how young the coin is and the size of the tx.
1991 2011-05-07 16:32:21 <fabianhjr> Generally fees are voluntary priorities and arre not required.
1992 2011-05-07 16:32:46 <fabianhjr> You can take a look at http://blockexplorer.com
1993 2011-05-07 16:32:47 <ForceDestroyer> I mean the required fees; within the protocol. Isn't there a limit on free transactions?
1994 2011-05-07 16:33:28 allied has joined
1995 2011-05-07 16:33:42 <rawry> so, anyone have any tips for filing down/cutting out the back of pcie1x connectors?
1996 2011-05-07 16:33:44 <fabianhjr> Yes, afaik it halves. so since there is a 250 kB space for free.
1997 2011-05-07 16:33:54 <fabianhjr> Though, it is up to miners.
1998 2011-05-07 16:34:06 <ForceDestroyer> ?
1999 2011-05-07 16:34:30 <fabianhjr> Force, miners can tinker with the software and remove the freespace completely.
2000 2011-05-07 16:34:45 <ForceDestroyer> And the protocol still accepts that?
2001 2011-05-07 16:34:52 <ForceDestroyer> No, I mean the other way around
2002 2011-05-07 16:35:13 <fabianhjr> Like, giving complete freespace? Yeah ofc.
2003 2011-05-07 16:35:14 <ForceDestroyer> Is there anything hindering a miner from including all transactions that pay 1 µBTC?
2004 2011-05-07 16:35:22 <rawry> ForceDestroyer: eg, line 3388 of main.cpp (in 322) can be commentoud out and just changed to false
2005 2011-05-07 16:35:44 <rawry> drop all fee-less txns
2006 2011-05-07 16:35:46 <fabianhjr> No, however, there is a consensus in not doing so because they are very small numbers and generally would be used for spamming.
2007 2011-05-07 16:36:01 <ForceDestroyer> I don't have the source at hand, and I'd actually prefer to read specifications, not code
2008 2011-05-07 16:36:16 <rawry> the specs only take you so far :(
2009 2011-05-07 16:36:20 redMBA has joined
2010 2011-05-07 16:36:33 <fabianhjr> There is noting hindering them but other miners.
2011 2011-05-07 16:36:46 <ForceDestroyer> By splitting the chain, eh?
2012 2011-05-07 16:37:16 <fabianhjr> Yeah more or less.
2013 2011-05-07 16:37:51 <fabianhjr> If we all made a consensus in the sense of exluding any tx major to 0.01 without a fee, then that would be the new rule.
2014 2011-05-07 16:38:00 <fabianhjr> It is always up to the hive mind.
2015 2011-05-07 16:38:38 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2016 2011-05-07 16:38:57 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2017 2011-05-07 16:39:26 <rawry> ForceDestroyer: you would gain nothing and actually just hinder yourself doing that, basically
2018 2011-05-07 16:39:50 <ForceDestroyer> This is about http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6576.0
2019 2011-05-07 16:40:08 <ForceDestroyer> I said 1 µBTC to say "arbitrarily small"
2020 2011-05-07 16:42:04 <diki> damn...no info on how to send a file using curl
2021 2011-05-07 16:42:18 <grbgout> diki: you've tried man curl, of course....
2022 2011-05-07 16:42:30 <diki> huh?
2023 2011-05-07 16:42:42 <grbgout> $ man curl
2024 2011-05-07 16:42:43 <BitMark> miners decide which txes are profitable for them to include in the blocks they find
2025 2011-05-07 16:42:50 <rawry> diki: the api or the commandline util?
2026 2011-05-07 16:42:53 <diki> i use libcurl
2027 2011-05-07 16:42:59 <BitMark> there could be a whole lot of reasons for this
2028 2011-05-07 16:43:11 <diki> but, i think the api
2029 2011-05-07 16:43:21 <rawry> diki: there's examples in the commandline util code, then
2030 2011-05-07 16:43:22 <LobsterMan> is slush having some issues with his pool?
2031 2011-05-07 16:43:23 <rawry> is the answer
2032 2011-05-07 16:43:28 <LobsterMan> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/
2033 2011-05-07 16:43:30 <diki> anyway, used one of the examples in the site...didnt work
2034 2011-05-07 16:43:32 <LobsterMan> i see blocks numbered zero
2035 2011-05-07 16:44:44 <diki> my head is spinning from all the compiling
2036 2011-05-07 16:45:20 <CIA-30> bitcoin: genjix exper * rce90efa3b8c4 intersango/index.php: popup for each pool_type selection with info about them. http://tinyurl.com/3dbevg2
2037 2011-05-07 16:45:21 <CIA-30> bitcoin: genjix exper * r5bb2da3ee91f intersango/ (DATABASE index.php lib/api.php place_order.php util.php): Added iceburg_max argument to placing order which is the fixed amount that an iceburg order shows at a time. http://tinyurl.com/3bdq44t
2038 2011-05-07 16:45:58 <rawry> diki: you looked at this right? http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/c/libcurl-tutorial.html
2039 2011-05-07 16:46:16 Fnar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2040 2011-05-07 16:46:19 <rawry> diki: specifically the 'upload data to a remote site' bit?
2041 2011-05-07 16:46:33 <grbgout> 'sup LobsterMan?
2042 2011-05-07 16:46:39 <LobsterMan> hi
2043 2011-05-07 16:47:09 <grbgout> hmm, where are you seeing a block numbered 0?
2044 2011-05-07 16:47:34 <LobsterMan> on the stats page
2045 2011-05-07 16:47:40 <LobsterMan> there is a column for block number
2046 2011-05-07 16:47:44 <LobsterMan> some of them i see as "0"
2047 2011-05-07 16:47:53 <LobsterMan> 4261 	2011-05-07 12:00:01 	0:10:49 	42335 	0.01825210 	0 	confirmed
2048 2011-05-07 16:47:54 <LobsterMan> etc
2049 2011-05-07 16:48:00 <grbgout> I don't see any listed as "0", are you on the first page?
2050 2011-05-07 16:48:09 <LobsterMan> yes
2051 2011-05-07 16:48:13 errydayimgenerat has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2052 2011-05-07 16:48:25 <LobsterMan> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/
2053 2011-05-07 16:48:26 ErryDayImHustlin is now known as ErryDayImGenerat
2054 2011-05-07 16:48:31 <grbgout> LobsterMan: I'm already looking at it.
2055 2011-05-07 16:48:32 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2056 2011-05-07 16:48:44 <grbgout> The first column, 4261 in your example, is the block number.
2057 2011-05-07 16:48:54 <grbgout> the 0 in your example is the number of confirmations...
2058 2011-05-07 16:49:31 allied has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2059 2011-05-07 16:49:36 jpph has joined
2060 2011-05-07 16:49:37 <LobsterMan> http://i.imgur.com/EAe9e.png
2061 2011-05-07 16:49:41 <LobsterMan> you dn't see anything like that?
2062 2011-05-07 16:49:46 <grbgout> LobsterMan: never mind, I see two with 0s now.
2063 2011-05-07 16:49:50 <LobsterMan> yeah...
2064 2011-05-07 16:49:53 <LobsterMan> they shouldn't be 0
2065 2011-05-07 16:50:00 <LobsterMan> i think someone is fucking with the pool
2066 2011-05-07 16:50:22 <grbgout> And that first column isn't block #, I'm guessing it's the Nth block found by the pool.  My mistake.
2067 2011-05-07 16:50:31 <LobsterMan> yeah
2068 2011-05-07 16:50:52 <LobsterMan> if you click the block number it takes you to block explorer
2069 2011-05-07 16:51:04 <grbgout> Yeah, you can see in your status bar that it doesn't link to an actual block.
2070 2011-05-07 16:51:32 <LobsterMan> my pool payouts have been inexplicably low today as well, i think someone is monkeying around with things :\
2071 2011-05-07 16:51:47 <grbgout> could be
2072 2011-05-07 16:51:55 <LobsterMan> and slush isn't here :\
2073 2011-05-07 16:52:04 <grbgout> I was noticing slow returns myself, but I was just presuming more people had joined the pool.
2074 2011-05-07 16:52:28 <LobsterMan> i think there is a lot of spam on the network today
2075 2011-05-07 16:52:46 <LobsterMan> or attempted spam
2076 2011-05-07 16:53:24 <rawry> people trying to monkey with difficulty change no doubt
2077 2011-05-07 16:53:30 <grbgout> Does the official bitcoin client support long polling yet?
2078 2011-05-07 16:53:51 <LobsterMan> not sure
2079 2011-05-07 16:55:58 <LobsterMan> anyway, afk ;
2080 2011-05-07 16:55:59 <LobsterMan> ;D
2081 2011-05-07 16:57:30 <grbgout> bb
2082 2011-05-07 16:57:38 <diki> i get a heap error on this   curl_formadd(&formpost,
2083 2011-05-07 16:57:38 <diki>                &lastptr,
2084 2011-05-07 16:57:51 <diki> i have no idea what formpost or lastptr have to be
2085 2011-05-07 16:58:54 skyewm has joined
2086 2011-05-07 17:00:18 Fnar has joined
2087 2011-05-07 17:00:26 j^ has joined
2088 2011-05-07 17:01:25 <j^> is the only way for a client to join to download the entire block chain? this takes longer and longer and requires quite some cpu
2089 2011-05-07 17:02:05 sgornick has joined
2090 2011-05-07 17:02:32 <BlueMatt> j^: you can get a copy of the blockchain from last night at bitcoin.bluematt.me or from a couple weeks ago on sf
2091 2011-05-07 17:02:43 danlucraft has left ()
2092 2011-05-07 17:03:21 <BlueMatt> j^: and hopefully if someone actually gets around to it, there will be clients which dont have to have the whole blockchain
2093 2011-05-07 17:03:35 <BlueMatt> but support for them was in the original design
2094 2011-05-07 17:03:53 JunK-Y has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2095 2011-05-07 17:04:55 <jmpespxoreax> how can there be clients that don't have to have the whole blockchain? that technically would qualify as incomplete state wouldn't it?
2096 2011-05-07 17:04:58 <diki> you know guys...i dont even know whi i OCed my card
2097 2011-05-07 17:05:05 <diki> i actuallt got more btc without the OC
2098 2011-05-07 17:05:19 <diki> for less than 24 hours i have almost 3,5BTC
2099 2011-05-07 17:05:25 <diki> that's at 270mhash
2100 2011-05-07 17:05:31 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2101 2011-05-07 17:05:37 <diki> so i broke my card for nothing
2102 2011-05-07 17:05:47 <BlueMatt> jmpespxoreax: if you aren't mining you dont care about having a history of transactions, you just care about whether or not your txes are confirmed
2103 2011-05-07 17:05:49 <jmpespxoreax> hqR5ejK3ec
2104 2011-05-07 17:05:54 <BlueMatt> which means you just need the last couple blocks
2105 2011-05-07 17:06:01 <jmpespxoreax> shit
2106 2011-05-07 17:06:02 <jmpespxoreax> haha
2107 2011-05-07 17:06:48 <diki> advice to everyone - don't oc your card unless you have 3-4 spare ones
2108 2011-05-07 17:07:04 <diki> the extra mhash/s don't help at all when you do pay per share
2109 2011-05-07 17:07:13 <diki> but i found this the hard way
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2111 2011-05-07 17:08:28 molecular has joined
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2113 2011-05-07 17:17:08 allied has joined
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2115 2011-05-07 17:17:39 FabianB has joined
2116 2011-05-07 17:18:01 <jmpespxoreax> BlueMatt: I understand now, thanks.
2117 2011-05-07 17:18:37 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2118 2011-05-07 17:21:31 Donald__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2119 2011-05-07 17:21:45 <rawry> have any of the pools contributed code back upstream related to the actual pooling mechanisms? I'm just curious and not finding anything
2120 2011-05-07 17:27:26 lzsaver has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2121 2011-05-07 17:28:33 skyewm has joined
2122 2011-05-07 17:29:41 <luke-jr> rawry: upstream doesn't really accept code much
2123 2011-05-07 17:29:47 <luke-jr> rawry: my changes are published
2124 2011-05-07 17:30:26 Cusipzzz has joined
2125 2011-05-07 17:31:18 bitcoiner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2126 2011-05-07 17:31:36 <rawry> luke-jr: link?
2127 2011-05-07 17:32:01 <luke-jr> rawry: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git
2128 2011-05-07 17:32:26 <luke-jr> threaded_rpc and coinbaser are essential to Eligius
2129 2011-05-07 17:32:58 <luke-jr> that said, I'd much prefer you join Eligius than setup a new pool :p
2130 2011-05-07 17:33:50 <rawry> luke-jr: more just curiosity atm, I'm actually more looking into improving the default bitcoind's retarded network/acl config (no offense to whoever wrote it)
2131 2011-05-07 17:34:18 bitcoiner has joined
2132 2011-05-07 17:36:09 <jmpespxoreax> rawry: why is it retarded?
2133 2011-05-07 17:36:25 <rawry> jmpespxoreax: no cidr support for one
2134 2011-05-07 17:36:58 <rawry> jmpespxoreax: my perspective is a little different
2135 2011-05-07 17:37:13 <rawry> jmpespxoreax: having more of a sys admin background professionally
2136 2011-05-07 17:37:47 <rawry> jmpespxoreax: and tbqh bitcoind is one of the worst pieces of software to initially configure that i've worked with in quite a while
2137 2011-05-07 17:37:53 <foggyb> what is the max # of GPU 's that bitcoin will mine with in linux?
2138 2011-05-07 17:38:11 JunK-Y has joined
2139 2011-05-07 17:38:28 <jmpespxoreax> rawry: seems like you would be in the right place to sort of "audit" the networking code then, right?
2140 2011-05-07 17:38:40 <jmpespxoreax> well, not right place, more right person
2141 2011-05-07 17:38:47 <rawry> i wouldn't claim that
2142 2011-05-07 17:38:59 <rawry> but it piques my interest enough that I'm sort of doing it anyways
2143 2011-05-07 17:39:11 <luke-jr> someone else recently refactored it
2144 2011-05-07 17:39:31 <rawry> luke-jr: ya i *know* some of the pools have to have. that's why I wask asking about them
2145 2011-05-07 17:39:46 <luke-jr> rawry: not really
2146 2011-05-07 17:39:58 <luke-jr> rawry: miners never talk directly to pool bitcoinds
2147 2011-05-07 17:40:22 <rawry> luke-jr: ah, so that's how they've avoided it then
2148 2011-05-07 17:40:41 <luke-jr> rawry: check out pushpool
2149 2011-05-07 17:40:43 <rawry> that actually explains pretty clearly why it hasn't been improved much
2150 2011-05-07 17:44:05 phantomcircuit has joined
2151 2011-05-07 17:45:07 phantomcircuit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2152 2011-05-07 17:45:12 phantomcircuit has joined
2153 2011-05-07 17:45:20 <CIA-30> bitcoin: genjix exper * rb616685a8dc6 intersango/util.php: BUGFIX: convert iceburg_max before storing in db. http://tinyurl.com/65ajzlb
2154 2011-05-07 17:45:21 <CIA-30> bitcoin: genjix exper * rc48bf62d4089 intersango/util.php: documented truncate_num in util.php http://tinyurl.com/6487ef4
2155 2011-05-07 17:45:23 <CIA-30> bitcoin: genjix exper * r84c09e920430 intersango/orderbook.php: only display iceburg and normal in orderbook. http://tinyurl.com/5wmu4tw
2156 2011-05-07 17:45:26 <CIA-30> bitcoin: genjix exper * r4cbab220c247 intersango/orderbook.php: select least between iceburg_max and amount/want_amount. http://tinyurl.com/5wtwzv7
2157 2011-05-07 17:45:36 <phantomcircuit>  10:38:54 up  2:31,  1 user,  load average: 0.56, 0.14, 0.09
2158 2011-05-07 17:45:40 <phantomcircuit> damn you PG&E!
2159 2011-05-07 17:49:57 <genjix> future block sizes will have to be 6 Gbs (with the transactions) in order for bitcoin to be a world currency
2160 2011-05-07 17:50:04 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2161 2011-05-07 17:50:10 <bk128> foggyb: I think it just depends on how many pci-e slots your motherboard has
2162 2011-05-07 17:50:22 <genjix> 6 GB *per* block
2163 2011-05-07 17:50:28 <bk128> genjix: we'll have 10PB hard drives by then
2164 2011-05-07 17:50:33 <bk128> I hope
2165 2011-05-07 17:50:41 <genjix> i hope so too
2166 2011-05-07 17:50:52 <Cusipzzz> genjix: there is success between "world currency' status and network failure. niche currency will be fine.
2167 2011-05-07 17:51:44 <foggyb> i have 6 slot motherboard, but there are extenders that can turn one slot into two
2168 2011-05-07 17:51:55 <genjix> but still it seems bitcoin has a bunch ofthese hard constraints atm that will later have to be removed
2169 2011-05-07 17:52:03 <genjix> i.e block size limit, IsStandard
2170 2011-05-07 17:52:17 <Cusipzzz> genjix: there is plenty of time...these things don't happen overnight
2171 2011-05-07 17:52:24 <rawry> foggyb: past 4 you run more into power/cooling issues than pcie availability
2172 2011-05-07 17:52:33 <genjix> do people really expect a network wide simultaneous upgrade when everyone will be running many custom flavours of bitcoin?
2173 2011-05-07 17:52:36 <Cusipzzz> the limits make sense as it is still in infantcy.
2174 2011-05-07 17:52:54 <Cusipzzz> we need to understand the threats, spams, better.
2175 2011-05-07 17:52:58 <genjix> see banks which run decades old software written in cobol
2176 2011-05-07 17:53:03 <genjix> ic
2177 2011-05-07 17:53:13 <Aahzmundus> genjix, you dont need everyone... just artfoz tycho and slush... if they decide to upgrade... the network goes with it
2178 2011-05-07 17:53:20 <Aahzmundus> right?
2179 2011-05-07 17:53:20 <genjix> so any bitcoin software i write must have a clear upgrade path.
2180 2011-05-07 17:53:23 <foggyb> yes, i plan to add multiple PSU units, that is cheaper anyway
2181 2011-05-07 17:53:23 <Cusipzzz> yes, i do expect upgrades, as the core userbase will still be very tech-focused for a long, long time
2182 2011-05-07 17:53:25 <genjix> no
2183 2011-05-07 17:53:40 <foggyb> no cooling issues, will use a test bench
2184 2011-05-07 17:53:43 <genjix> Aahzmundus: the clients can reject the blocks if they don't like them.
2185 2011-05-07 17:54:05 <Aahzmundus> but dosent hashing power determin voting power in the network
2186 2011-05-07 17:54:18 <Aahzmundus> as long as you get more of the power to go one way... you got your switchover
2187 2011-05-07 17:54:20 <genjix> currently blocks have to be less than 1 MB and transactions have to pass IsStandard
2188 2011-05-07 17:54:35 gavinandresen has joined
2189 2011-05-07 17:55:07 <rawry> foggyb: there are examples floating around doing 8 gpu cores, but i've only seen implementations (not btc related) doing that with dual gpu cards
2190 2011-05-07 17:56:20 <rawry> foggyb: not sure what the fglrx/nvidia drivers actually support but to my understanding at least since the cat10.6 (?) the limit is more theorhetical and bus starvation related
2191 2011-05-07 17:57:13 <rawry> foggyb: and nvidia longer than that
2192 2011-05-07 17:57:13 <foggyb> pci-e 1x is enough for BTC to mine at full GPU capability, i have read
2193 2011-05-07 17:57:15 <Cusipzzz> block size and fee structure will definitely be refined going forward
2194 2011-05-07 17:57:21 <luke-jr> genjix: transactions don't have to pass IsStandard.
2195 2011-05-07 17:58:20 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2196 2011-05-07 17:59:48 sytse has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2197 2011-05-07 17:59:51 <genjix> luke-jr: ?
2198 2011-05-07 18:00:04 <rawry> foggyb: ya but you can still only split any given connector so many times
2199 2011-05-07 18:00:12 <luke-jr> genjix: miners can include non-standard transactions and all clients will be OK
2200 2011-05-07 18:00:19 <luke-jr> genjix: Eligius does
2201 2011-05-07 18:00:25 <genjix> the client fails if they aren't following the usual script
2202 2011-05-07 18:00:29 <luke-jr> nope
2203 2011-05-07 18:00:35 <foggyb> well i am looking for 6-8 GPU's nothing too crazy ;^)
2204 2011-05-07 18:00:55 <rawry> foggyb: easiest way to get that is 2xgpu cards tbqh
2205 2011-05-07 18:01:10 <foggyb> 6990's is my plan
2206 2011-05-07 18:02:19 <genjix> luke-jr: im looking at the code and it doesn't check nor add the transaction unless it passes IsStandard
2207 2011-05-07 18:02:37 <luke-jr> genjix: you're reading it wrong
2208 2011-05-07 18:03:05 <rawry> foggyb: should be able to get 4 of those hooked up pretty trivially assuming you know what's involved in making them fit in 1x slots
2209 2011-05-07 18:03:31 BoWozZ has joined
2210 2011-05-07 18:03:37 <rawry> foggyb: see: http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42
2211 2011-05-07 18:04:05 <rawry> foggyb: that's 4x 5970s on a commodity mini-atx board
2212 2011-05-07 18:04:06 <foggyb> yeah, Gigabyte 890FXA-UD7 supports 4-way crossfire with 2-slot cards, so i will probably use ribbon cables for the two additional slots
2213 2011-05-07 18:04:24 <rawry> foggyb: shouldn't need xfire.
2214 2011-05-07 18:04:25 jrabbit has joined
2215 2011-05-07 18:04:31 <rawry> at all
2216 2011-05-07 18:04:31 <foggyb> yes i know.
2217 2011-05-07 18:04:52 <foggyb> but the point is that 4 2-slot cards fit with no trouble
2218 2011-05-07 18:05:23 <CIA-30> bitcoin: Chris Howie * r1389aad43c37 mining-proxy/htdocs/index.php: Fix error for some users when inserting data into work_data, and fail the JSON request if the work cannot be inserted http://tinyurl.com/6lypypb
2219 2011-05-07 18:05:29 <rawry> foggyb: biggest problem you'll run into is the issue with 16x cards in 1x slots (physical fit and card init depending on your bios)
2220 2011-05-07 18:05:55 <rawry> foggyb: both addressed in that article in nice easy solderless ways
2221 2011-05-07 18:06:20 <foggyb> Gigabyte 890FXA-UD7 has 6x slots (all blue) and i'm pretty sure they are all 16x/8x
2222 2011-05-07 18:06:33 <rawry> ah
2223 2011-05-07 18:06:44 <foggyb> i hope i dont need to solder anything
2224 2011-05-07 18:06:55 <rawry> could have gotten a cheaper board and ended up with same performance
2225 2011-05-07 18:07:11 <foggyb> i dont have any hardware yet at all
2226 2011-05-07 18:07:26 <foggyb> what do you mean?
2227 2011-05-07 18:07:37 <rawry> foggyb: all you need is 1 16x slot and 3 1x slots
2228 2011-05-07 18:07:52 <rawry> or 2 16x and 2 1x
2229 2011-05-07 18:07:59 <rawry> boards with both configs are cheap as shit
2230 2011-05-07 18:08:06 <foggyb> why does one need to be 16x?
2231 2011-05-07 18:08:23 <rawry> because i don't think any exist with 4+ 1x and no 16x
2232 2011-05-07 18:08:23 <rawry> heh
2233 2011-05-07 18:08:31 <rawry> (you don't)
2234 2011-05-07 18:08:34 <foggyb> ok
2235 2011-05-07 18:09:09 <foggyb> well i realize that 1x works, but i want a nice robust board like gigabyte so the rig doesn't crash and burn on me
2236 2011-05-07 18:09:13 <rawry> hmmm, speaking of other code-audit related weirdness
2237 2011-05-07 18:09:23 <rawry> why does backupwallet export to a platform dependent format?
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2239 2011-05-07 18:09:59 <gavinandresen> rawry: because that was really easy to implement.
2240 2011-05-07 18:10:01 <rawry> foggyb: well, gigabyte makes smaller boards that'll work fine
2241 2011-05-07 18:10:25 ArtForzZz has joined
2242 2011-05-07 18:10:27 <foggyb> yeah i will look around
2243 2011-05-07 18:10:43 <rawry> gavinandresen: I'm just glad I noticed before i tried to restore a backup from my arm box onto x86_64 ;P
2244 2011-05-07 18:10:52 <jmpespxoreax> actually, why the hard limit of 100 on the number of public/private key pairs in a wallet, or has  that changed?
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2246 2011-05-07 18:11:31 <gavinandresen> rawry:  I thought berkeley db files were cross-platform as long as you ran the same version of bdb in both places-- am I wrong?
2247 2011-05-07 18:12:13 <gavinandresen> jmpespxoreax: there's never been a hard limit of 100
2248 2011-05-07 18:12:39 <SerajewelKS> jmpespxoreax: i think you're confusing the key cache with the key collection
2249 2011-05-07 18:12:45 <jmpespxoreax> I might be
2250 2011-05-07 18:13:06 draag has joined
2251 2011-05-07 18:13:32 <SerajewelKS> jmpespxoreax: it'll keep 100 new keys in the wallet so that if you lose your wallet some time after taking a backup, you will still have access to money received at "new" addresses
2252 2011-05-07 18:13:49 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2253 2011-05-07 18:14:30 <jmpespxoreax> I was just looking at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Securing_your_wallet and it states that "After a total of 100 new-key actions, you will start using keys that are not in your backup. Since the backup does not have the private keys necessary for authorizing spends of these coins, restoring from the old backup will cause you to lose Bitcoins. "
2254 2011-05-07 18:14:34 <SerajewelKS> jmpespxoreax: as long as the number of trasactions you have sent plus the number of new addresses you have generated in the client does not exceed 100 since your last backup, you will still have access to all your money
2255 2011-05-07 18:15:00 draaglom has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2256 2011-05-07 18:15:03 <SerajewelKS> jmpespxoreax: right, that's because the 100-key cache is backed up too.  those are yet-unused addresses at the time of the backup.
2257 2011-05-07 18:15:27 <SerajewelKS> jmpespxoreax: the client will take "new" keys from that list instead of actually generating them.  (it will generate more in the background to keep the cache at 100)
2258 2011-05-07 18:16:13 <SerajewelKS> jmpespxoreax: the only purpose of this is to make sure that you can restore from an oldish backup and still have your money, if you're not sending a bunch of transactions each day (since each transaction has a chance to use a new address)
2259 2011-05-07 18:16:14 <jmpespxoreax> I think I understand now
2260 2011-05-07 18:18:50 <rawry> gavinandresen: i don't know with current versions, I know that didn't used to be the case
2261 2011-05-07 18:19:35 <rawry> gavinandresen: with pre-purchase licensing, at least
2262 2011-05-07 18:19:42 <rawry> so <=2.x
2263 2011-05-07 18:20:23 Kiba has joined
2264 2011-05-07 18:20:53 <gavinandresen> rawry: your wallet.dat should work on any machine running bdb version 4.*
2265 2011-05-07 18:21:00 deceit has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2267 2011-05-07 18:21:59 <gavinandresen> rawry: if I'm remembering correctly, the log/checkpoint files are incompatible between 4.x and 4.y, but the main db files stay compatible until major releases.
2268 2011-05-07 18:22:24 <gavinandresen> rawry:  and sipa is working on better wallet export/import if you want to help out.
2269 2011-05-07 18:22:55 <rawry> i'm trying to figure out what I want to help on ;P
2270 2011-05-07 18:23:16 <rawry> need to do something while unemployed, stupid layoffs, ha
2271 2011-05-07 18:24:34 <gavinandresen> well, if you write some good bitcoin code I predict there will be a few bitcoin startups who might be happy to hire you
2272 2011-05-07 18:25:03 <rawry> i refuse to write code for a living
2273 2011-05-07 18:25:11 <rawry> drives me crazy (literally)
2274 2011-05-07 18:25:21 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: Im still waiting for those bitcoin startups...
2275 2011-05-07 18:25:28 <rawry> tried it a few times ;P
2276 2011-05-07 18:25:29 <BlueMatt> (not that I can code worth shit but...)
2277 2011-05-07 18:25:32 <Kiba> rawry: start a blog and slap bitcoin ads on it
2278 2011-05-07 18:26:08 * Kiba 's operation earned him .21 BTC a day from ads
2279 2011-05-07 18:26:22 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I'd like to see bitcointools support encrypted keys before we push any kind of 0.4.0 encrypt keys version...
2280 2011-05-07 18:26:31 <BlueMatt> if you don't mind...
2281 2011-05-07 18:26:33 <Kiba> though most days, I am in the role of development and editorial control rather than a writer
2282 2011-05-07 18:27:36 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: sure, that should be easy.  I'd really like to fix the "decrypt on startup" before release, though.
2283 2011-05-07 18:27:46 <gavinandresen> (decrypt on send is SO much more secure)
2284 2011-05-07 18:28:09 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: hmmm...I just dont feel that strongly that that has much real-world advantage
2285 2011-05-07 18:28:24 <BlueMatt> if an attacker has your ram, you are dead, if not, you are fine
2286 2011-05-07 18:28:36 <Kiba> is there a way to encrypt ram?
2287 2011-05-07 18:28:55 <BlueMatt> youd have to store the instructions to unencrypt in ram
2288 2011-05-07 18:28:58 <BlueMatt> so...not really
2289 2011-05-07 18:29:05 <jmpespxoreax> BlueMatt: some theoretical remote-exploit could give access to ram, and gavinandresen is saying that storing an encrypted file in RAM vs a decrypted one might save people in this case
2290 2011-05-07 18:29:11 <gavinandresen> I'm worried about the "attacker is my brother's friend who sees I left bitcoin running when I went to get a snack" attack
2291 2011-05-07 18:29:20 <BlueMatt> but the only thing that is stored in ram in the current patch is data that appears random
2292 2011-05-07 18:29:43 <BlueMatt> (though that is in constant location in the running program)
2293 2011-05-07 18:29:49 <Kiba> gavinandresen: that easy, require a password
2294 2011-05-07 18:29:53 <gavinandresen> And I'm worried about "trojan sends windows events to running bitcoin that simulates pushes to the send button and keystrokes"....
2295 2011-05-07 18:29:57 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: then he installs a keylogger and you are dead anyway
2296 2011-05-07 18:30:27 <BlueMatt> though I suppose the second is a bit more of a problem
2297 2011-05-07 18:30:42 <Kiba> only a problem if he have adminstrative access
2298 2011-05-07 18:30:48 <rawry> jmpespxoreax: but in the real world focusing on preventing the bugs that cause such access is going to offer greater returns
2299 2011-05-07 18:30:54 <rawry> (security people lynch me now, i know)
2300 2011-05-07 18:31:19 <Herodes> gavinandresen: Perhaps there should be an option for setting a password, before the menus in the client can be operated? Perhaps a user selectable option. Another level of protection so to speak?
2301 2011-05-07 18:31:32 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: the other problem is the bitcoin generates keys at random times and doesnt have the password then...
2302 2011-05-07 18:31:43 <Herodes> Ie, you want to send some coins, first enter the password.
2303 2011-05-07 18:31:55 <Herodes> Or insert an usb-disk with a crypto-key.
2304 2011-05-07 18:32:00 <BlueMatt> also, the privkeys are stored in plaintext in ram, so you are dead either way...
2305 2011-05-07 18:32:03 <Herodes> Many different options is possible.
2306 2011-05-07 18:32:15 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: it shouldn't be hard to teach bitcoin not to generate keys at random times.  There's already 100 of them by default in the keypool
2307 2011-05-07 18:32:29 <gavinandresen> And writing a 'changepool' has been on my TODO list for a while.
2308 2011-05-07 18:32:49 <gavinandresen> (re-use keys for change instead of constantly growing the wallet).
2309 2011-05-07 18:33:10 <rawry> gavinandresen: imho, encrypting on disk and decrypting at run-time makes more sense, that way you require passphrase on launch and exit to load/save to disk
2310 2011-05-07 18:33:18 <BlueMatt> well if you want to get started on that todo list, it would be much appreciated...
2311 2011-05-07 18:33:31 <rawry> gavinandresen: so you still get all the autogenned key goodness
2312 2011-05-07 18:33:39 <BlueMatt> but if you want to be secure here, privkeys need pulled out of ram
2313 2011-05-07 18:33:46 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I'm getting close to doing a bunch more bitcoin work-- just have a couple of more ClearCoin things to finish
2314 2011-05-07 18:34:05 <gavinandresen> (of course I'm going to France for a couple weeks ina couple weeks....)
2315 2011-05-07 18:34:23 <BlueMatt> ooo france, welcome to europe...have fun
2316 2011-05-07 18:34:36 <rawry> trying to prevent access to it in ram (securely) without specialized hardware is a moving target with pretty big portability nightmare
2317 2011-05-07 18:35:12 <gavinandresen> rawry: that's a battle bitcoin can't win.  Long-term solution is multi-factor authentication of transactions
2318 2011-05-07 18:35:14 <phantomcircuit> rawry, it's pretty easy on linux
2319 2011-05-07 18:35:30 <phantomcircuit> of course anybody with root can defeat you
2320 2011-05-07 18:36:16 <BlueMatt> yea, honestly, preventing stealing bitcoin keys from ram when bitcoin is running is pretty much impossible so I'm not too concerned with the enter password at tx time thing
2321 2011-05-07 18:36:35 <rawry> phantomcircuit: it can be done at the system level on os x in a way that doesn't give root access
2322 2011-05-07 18:36:38 <gavinandresen> It would be nifty to run bitcoin in a password-protected VM, if there was an easy way to do that.
2323 2011-05-07 18:36:47 <rawry> phantomcircuit: with no code changes
2324 2011-05-07 18:36:47 <luke-jr> TPM
2325 2011-05-07 18:36:57 <phantomcircuit> rawry, mlockall
2326 2011-05-07 18:36:58 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: oh god, kill me now...
2327 2011-05-07 18:36:59 <phantomcircuit> magic
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2329 2011-05-07 18:37:16 <rawry> phantomcircuit: but that's what i was saying, portability nightmare ;P
2330 2011-05-07 18:37:26 <phantomcircuit> rawry, also what you say about osx is simply not true, root can muck with kernel internals and unlock the memory region
2331 2011-05-07 18:37:37 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: TPM isn't a silver bullet, it will happily sign a transaction to attacker that you THOUGHT was a transaction to your uncle bob
2332 2011-05-07 18:37:40 <rawry> phantomcircuit: not without the user's passphrase
2333 2011-05-07 18:37:40 <phantomcircuit> although obviously the barrier to entry there is much higher
2334 2011-05-07 18:37:52 <phantomcircuit> rawry, uh yes without the users passphrase
2335 2011-05-07 18:38:01 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: true
2336 2011-05-07 18:38:09 <rawry> phantomcircuit: source?
2337 2011-05-07 18:38:13 <phantomcircuit> root can simply disable memory locking by overwriting the internal memory structure
2338 2011-05-07 18:38:14 <luke-jr> I actually have TPM now…
2339 2011-05-07 18:39:06 <gavinandresen> talk to y'all later, I've gotta run
2340 2011-05-07 18:39:12 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: see ya
2341 2011-05-07 18:39:20 <rawry> phantomcircuit: nevermind, I thought they'd extended the secure virtual memory to in-ram too
2342 2011-05-07 18:39:20 <phantomcircuit> rawry, there is literally nothing that root cannot do on a  *nix system, simply because root can load kernel modules which change the behaviour of the kernel itself
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2344 2011-05-07 18:39:39 <phantomcircuit> rawry, no all it is is an mlock equivalent
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2346 2011-05-07 18:40:07 <rawry> phantomcircuit: i have a couple systems where root doesn't mean shit, so that's not entirely true
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2349 2011-05-07 18:40:35 <rawry> phantomcircuit: capability-only systems (pita to implement) are fun
2350 2011-05-07 18:40:35 <phantomcircuit> rawry, freebsd jails/openvz jails
2351 2011-05-07 18:40:39 <phantomcircuit> you're not really root
2352 2011-05-07 18:40:44 <phantomcircuit> oh selinux
2353 2011-05-07 18:40:47 <phantomcircuit> yeah fun
2354 2011-05-07 18:40:47 <rawry> phantomcircuit: nope
2355 2011-05-07 18:40:56 <rawry> phantomcircuit: it's in mainline since 2.6.32
2356 2011-05-07 18:41:13 <phantomcircuit> nobody uses capabilities on desktop systems
2357 2011-05-07 18:41:25 <phantomcircuit> if they do they're setup to give the desktop user full access
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2359 2011-05-07 18:41:44 <rawry> phantomcircuit: like I said, pita to implement, but possible
2360 2011-05-07 18:41:48 <SerajewelKS> if people cared about capabilities on desktops, they'd spend more time managing capabilities than using their computer
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2362 2011-05-07 18:42:02 <phantomcircuit> rawry, sure but there's no point in using them on desktop systems
2363 2011-05-07 18:42:28 <jmpespxoreax> my view is that the only secure way is to store everything encrypted until required, and then use a password / keyfile from an external source to decrypt. anything relying on the machine could be broken, anything relying on math (ie cryptography) can't easily be broken
2364 2011-05-07 18:42:30 <rawry> phantomcircuit: and my interest doesn't lies outside of desktops since i'd never run something like that off of one, but i know i'm special
2365 2011-05-07 18:42:42 <rawry> s/doesn't//
2366 2011-05-07 18:42:57 <luke-jr> who produces the first USB bitcoin wallet?
2367 2011-05-07 18:43:02 <SerajewelKS> jmpespxoreax: that's still insecure if someone has root
2368 2011-05-07 18:43:17 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, all you need is a smartcard that can do ECDSA
2369 2011-05-07 18:43:23 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: not quite
2370 2011-05-07 18:43:40 <rawry> phantomcircuit: anyways, you don't actually need capabilities enforcement turned on at the init-level for them to help with bitcoin
2371 2011-05-07 18:43:43 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: to solve gavin's problem, you need a device that displays destination address and amount, and lets you confirm on it
2372 2011-05-07 18:43:50 <luke-jr> so a small LED w/ buttons
2373 2011-05-07 18:43:54 <rawry> phantomcircuit: just on any public services. eg, bind and openssh already do it by default on linux
2374 2011-05-07 18:43:55 <SerajewelKS> NEWS FLASH: if bad people have control over your computer, they can do bad things!
2375 2011-05-07 18:44:06 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr,oh that's a step above
2376 2011-05-07 18:44:28 <luke-jr> maybe a fingerprint reader too :p
2377 2011-05-07 18:44:44 <phantomcircuit> rawry, bind by default runs in a chroot under a different user
2378 2011-05-07 18:45:02 <luke-jr> the hard part is backups and what to do if it detects someone taking it apart
2379 2011-05-07 18:45:04 <rawry> phantomcircuit: then your attack vectors are through bitcoind  itself (really only through the p2p portion if it's setup right because rpc/etc should never be listening on public addresses in the first place)
2380 2011-05-07 18:45:10 <phantomcircuit> instead of write clean code they basically wrote a giant sandbox
2381 2011-05-07 18:45:19 <CIA-30> bitcoin: genjix exper * rf6920b6002c6 intersango/ (lib/translate_codes.php util.php view_order.php): Display pool type under view_order. http://tinyurl.com/3e4xoxd
2382 2011-05-07 18:45:27 <rawry> phantomcircuit: i'm not holding bind up as an example as security
2383 2011-05-07 18:45:29 <rawry> heh
2384 2011-05-07 18:45:35 <rawry> s/as security/of security/
2385 2011-05-07 18:46:22 <rawry> phantomcircuit: and no, actually, with 9.2+ it actually doesn't drop all privs in the toplevel process, it does setuid/etc but it first keeps the caps for binding to <1024 and changing ulimits
2386 2011-05-07 18:46:43 <phantomcircuit> oh interesting
2387 2011-05-07 18:46:47 <rawry> phantomcircuit: that way it can continue to spawn to children with appropriate limits (defined in config) and rebind to new addresses that pop up
2388 2011-05-07 18:46:53 <rawry> but the main process drops "root" completely
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2392 2011-05-07 18:47:46 <rawry> phantomcircuit: actually wrote some ghetto ruby bindings for linux's capabilities libs at last job is why I'm familiar with this, heh
2393 2011-05-07 18:48:23 <rawry> phantomcircuit: because there's so few things that actually use them i had to find the good examples
2394 2011-05-07 18:49:13 <phantomcircuit> heh
2395 2011-05-07 18:49:26 <phantomcircuit> yeah i saw an example of someone trying to use them and was just like
2396 2011-05-07 18:49:27 <phantomcircuit> WAT
2397 2011-05-07 18:50:22 <rawry> it might not be a bad idea, at least build on linux, to blank out the binding set for capabilities
2398 2011-05-07 18:50:32 <rawry> on bitcoin/bitcoind startup
2399 2011-05-07 18:50:57 <rawry> that way even if bitcoin is compromised they can't escalate to root no matter the state of other installed software on the system
2400 2011-05-07 18:51:19 <rawry> which greatly improves any key encryption techniques
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2402 2011-05-07 18:52:14 <rawry> *bsd doesn't have enough of posix1.e implemented for it to be useful there, though
2403 2011-05-07 18:54:41 <phantomcircuit> lol
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2406 2011-05-07 18:57:07 <rawry> what? it doesn't. They completely skipped the capabilities section when implementing.
2407 2011-05-07 18:57:41 <rawry> There's some renewed interest in HMAC and such with some of the current devs but most of posix1.e/trustbsd has been stale for >5 years iirc
2408 2011-05-07 18:57:52 <rawry> trustedbsd
2409 2011-05-07 18:58:21 <rawry> (in freebsd specifically)
2410 2011-05-07 18:59:28 <rawry> adding that implementation would require bitcoin/bitcoind to be launched as root and drop privs on non-capabilities-only systems, though
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2412 2011-05-07 19:00:06 <rawry> (though, as long as that's the very first thing done, doing it with setuid binaries is not a horrible thing)
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2415 2011-05-07 19:01:34 <rawry> but stuff like that is exactly why capabilities continue to get no traction. :(
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2417 2011-05-07 19:02:46 <datathe1st> #bitcoin-otc
2418 2011-05-07 19:02:48 <rawry> needing privs just so you can explicitly drop all privs and prevent re-escalation is downright retarded
2419 2011-05-07 19:03:00 <datathe1st> #bitcoin-watch
2420 2011-05-07 19:06:02 <rawry> think i might actually see about implementing that. pretty straightforward and already intimately familiar with the syscalls to do it
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2424 2011-05-07 19:13:44 <thedrs> hi all
2425 2011-05-07 19:13:57 <BlueMatt> hello
2426 2011-05-07 19:14:52 <thedrs> would you ppl know whether i can put a pci express 2.1 card in an old pci express slot  (x16) ?
2427 2011-05-07 19:15:25 <BlueMatt> it should figure it out and set it right
2428 2011-05-07 19:15:29 <thedrs> i am going for the cheap old MB + new gfx card setting
2429 2011-05-07 19:15:40 <thedrs> :)
2430 2011-05-07 19:16:03 <thedrs> ok, so i guess i will be getting the gigabyte 5850 OC tomorrow
2431 2011-05-07 19:16:28 <thedrs> and putting it into my AMD 3000 GA-K8NF-9 rack :)
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2464 2011-05-07 20:00:03 thedrs has left ()
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2466 2011-05-07 20:03:48 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2467 2011-05-07 20:03:49 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":3.7,"low":3.425,"vol":17821,"buy":3.6399,"sell":3.645,"last":3.6413}}
2468 2011-05-07 20:03:55 <gjs278> sweet
2469 2011-05-07 20:04:34 manifold_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2470 2011-05-07 20:06:16 Prof_BiG_BanG has joined
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2472 2011-05-07 20:09:49 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2475 2011-05-07 20:12:07 <BlueMatt> anyone want to testnet mine so I can do some testing?
2476 2011-05-07 20:13:24 <gjs278> what rate will I need to find a block in like an hour
2477 2011-05-07 20:13:56 <BlueMatt> difficulty is 16, I think but calculations are half
2478 2011-05-07 20:16:16 <gjs278> # bitcoind gethashespersec
2479 2011-05-07 20:16:17 <gjs278> 16555946
2480 2011-05-07 20:16:23 <gjs278> that is what I offer to you
2481 2011-05-07 20:16:50 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,gend 16555 8
2482 2011-05-07 20:16:50 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 16555 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 8, is 2081.43610507 BTC per day and 86.726504378 BTC per hour.
2483 2011-05-07 20:17:16 <BlueMatt> almost 2 blocks/hour
2484 2011-05-07 20:17:23 <devrandom> BlueMatt luke-jr - what do you think about a secure android distribution for running a wallet?
2485 2011-05-07 20:17:39 <luke-jr> devrandom: dumb.
2486 2011-05-07 20:17:49 <luke-jr> people will try to use it on phones
2487 2011-05-07 20:18:13 DukeOfURL has joined
2488 2011-05-07 20:18:21 <devrandom> it won't have phone app, etc.
2489 2011-05-07 20:18:31 <BlueMatt> devrandom: a different android distro just for bitcoin?
2490 2011-05-07 20:18:35 <BlueMatt> seems a bit excessive...
2491 2011-05-07 20:19:35 <gjs278> [2011-04-07 15:14:12] PROOF OF WORK RESULT: false (booooo)
2492 2011-05-07 20:20:23 <devrandom> BlueMatt - it would be more general for doing secure stuff, like wallets, password storage, pgp keys
2493 2011-05-07 20:20:38 <BlueMatt> isnt the nsa already doing something like that?
2494 2011-05-07 20:20:56 <devrandom> haven't heard
2495 2011-05-07 20:20:58 afed has joined
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2497 2011-05-07 20:21:05 <gjs278> I told it to run for 2 hours at 24mhash, hax away
2498 2011-05-07 20:21:16 <BlueMatt> I think they are doing/buying something like that right now for military and such
2499 2011-05-07 20:21:22 <BlueMatt> might do a bit of looking first
2500 2011-05-07 20:21:43 <BlueMatt> but, honestly, I dont think there's much of a market there
2501 2011-05-07 20:22:29 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|BlueMatt,  for runnin a wallet on a mobile device, or the distribution part?
2502 2011-05-07 20:22:37 <BlueMatt> the distribution part
2503 2011-05-07 20:22:49 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|phew
2504 2011-05-07 20:22:49 <BlueMatt> wallet I think there is, but I dont think there should be
2505 2011-05-07 20:22:55 <BlueMatt> but thats a whole different discussion
2506 2011-05-07 20:23:06 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|oh, why not? seems like a logical next step
2507 2011-05-07 20:23:19 <BlueMatt> problem I see is all the syncing crap
2508 2011-05-07 20:23:31 <BlueMatt> sync privkeys to desktop or manually send money back and forth?
2509 2011-05-07 20:23:34 <BlueMatt> either way really anoying
2510 2011-05-07 20:23:48 redMBA has joined
2511 2011-05-07 20:23:52 <BlueMatt> Id much prefer things like tcatm's excellent js-ui on a mybitcoin style site
2512 2011-05-07 20:23:54 <BlueMatt> (for noobs)
2513 2011-05-07 20:24:05 <BlueMatt> because for 99% of people that is just so much better
2514 2011-05-07 20:24:27 <devrandom> withdrawals from desktop can be done over a network connection and automatically...
2515 2011-05-07 20:24:38 <BlueMatt> which becomes insecure...
2516 2011-05-07 20:24:52 <devrandom> desktop can rate limit
2517 2011-05-07 20:24:54 <BlueMatt> or atleast difficult
2518 2011-05-07 20:25:12 <BlueMatt> if you were to do some kind of ssh-style trusted key thing, its possible but it just gets too complicated
2519 2011-05-07 20:25:16 <BlueMatt> and needlessly so
2520 2011-05-07 20:25:32 <UukGoblin> is gribble allright?
2521 2011-05-07 20:25:35 luke-jr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2522 2011-05-07 20:25:39 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,stats
2523 2011-05-07 20:25:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 122515 | Current Difficulty: 109670.13329248 | Next Difficulty At Block: 122975 | Next Difficulty In: 460 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 4 hours, 46 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 153446.65558831
2524 2011-05-07 20:25:45 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: uh, yes?
2525 2011-05-07 20:25:46 <UukGoblin> I know mtgox is ddosed, but there were no reports of any other exchanges on #bitcoin-market
2526 2011-05-07 20:26:00 <gjs278> gribble screwed up on me earlier for somethin
2527 2011-05-07 20:26:09 <UukGoblin> maybe no trades, but I'd expect them to go up if mtgox is down...
2528 2011-05-07 20:26:11 <BlueMatt> nanotube: whats up?
2529 2011-05-07 20:26:14 <UukGoblin> or are they ddosed too?
2530 2011-05-07 20:26:20 Incitatus has joined
2531 2011-05-07 20:26:29 <BlueMatt> I think gribble pulls from bitcoincharts, are they ok?
2532 2011-05-07 20:26:44 <UukGoblin> looks like they should be
2533 2011-05-07 20:26:53 <gjs278> gribble times out when you do mtgox lookups sometimes
2534 2011-05-07 20:27:25 <UukGoblin> there were trades on bitomat.pl today
2535 2011-05-07 20:27:31 <UukGoblin> which were not reported by gribble
2536 2011-05-07 20:27:55 luke-jr has joined
2537 2011-05-07 20:28:07 <UukGoblin> bitcoincharts seem to have that data
2538 2011-05-07 20:28:13 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2544 2011-05-07 20:32:51 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
2545 2011-05-07 20:33:01 Marcel has joined
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2547 2011-05-07 20:38:00 IncitatusOnWater is now known as genjix2
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2551 2011-05-07 20:45:36 <rawry> wow, forgot how ruby specific this code is, ha
2552 2011-05-07 20:45:46 <BlueMatt> what code?
2553 2011-05-07 20:46:03 <rawry> capabilities code i'm fussing with
2554 2011-05-07 20:46:26 Diablo-D3 has joined
2555 2011-05-07 20:46:35 <BlueMatt> ah
2556 2011-05-07 20:47:38 <rawry> no biggie, just need to go through and remove all the VALUE, ALLOC_N, rb_ivar_defined, and rb_iv_get references and replace them with malloc and such
2557 2011-05-07 20:47:49 lfm has joined
2558 2011-05-07 20:48:36 <rawry> writing only ruby extensions for my c programming in the last few years made me forget how annoying it is to write c that doesn't already have well defined wrappers for all that stuff, haha
2559 2011-05-07 20:49:18 jpph has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.1 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
2560 2011-05-07 20:52:08 <gat3way> hm just visited btcex.com
2561 2011-05-07 20:52:19 <gat3way> wondering why is the spread so huge for BTC-RUB
2562 2011-05-07 20:52:19 mmoya has joined
2563 2011-05-07 20:52:33 <gat3way> 30 vs 91
2564 2011-05-07 20:52:33 <BlueMatt> gat3way: you realize btcex is the guy ddosing mtgox?
2565 2011-05-07 20:52:40 <BlueMatt> or atleast related to the ddos
2566 2011-05-07 20:52:54 <rawry> doing such a piss poor job of it too
2567 2011-05-07 20:52:56 <BlueMatt> why would you support that?
2568 2011-05-07 20:53:04 <gat3way> I thought the ddos attacks are done by people that demand drop in BTC value
2569 2011-05-07 20:53:05 <BlueMatt> rawry: mtgox is kinda down atm...
2570 2011-05-07 20:53:23 <rawry> BlueMatt: which pieces? ticker and everything is working fine for me
2571 2011-05-07 20:53:28 <gat3way> I wouldn't....never exchanged anything yet, just researching this
2572 2011-05-07 20:53:34 <BlueMatt> gat3way: no people who want magicaltux to pay to make it stop, but it appears that btcex knew about the attack before hand, ie is related
2573 2011-05-07 20:53:35 <lfm> gat3way: thats stupid
2574 2011-05-07 20:53:46 <BlueMatt> ;;isitup mtgox.com
2575 2011-05-07 20:53:46 <gribble> Error: "isitup" is not a valid command.
2576 2011-05-07 20:53:47 <rawry> drama
2577 2011-05-07 20:54:01 <BlueMatt> ;;isitdown mtgox.com
2578 2011-05-07 20:54:04 <gat3way> why?
2579 2011-05-07 20:54:06 <gribble> http://mtgox.com Is Down -> Check if your website is up or down?
2580 2011-05-07 20:54:19 <rawry> ;;isitdown www.mtgox.com
2581 2011-05-07 20:54:24 <BlueMatt> rawry: how the hell are you getting onto mtgox?
2582 2011-05-07 20:54:24 <gribble> http://www.mtgox.com Is Down -> Check if your website is up or down?
2583 2011-05-07 20:54:31 <rawry> BlueMatt: i dunno
2584 2011-05-07 20:54:41 <rawry> BlueMatt: not doing anything special, loads fine for me
2585 2011-05-07 20:54:43 <mtrlt> https works
2586 2011-05-07 20:54:47 <BlueMatt> ah
2587 2011-05-07 20:54:48 <rawry> ah, maybe that's it
2588 2011-05-07 20:55:00 <rawry> ya my bookmarks/history are all https and i just didn't notice
2589 2011-05-07 20:55:08 <mtrlt> related: why isn't #bitcoin-market showing anything?
2590 2011-05-07 20:55:16 <BlueMatt> gribble probably uses http
2591 2011-05-07 20:55:17 <rawry> ;;isitdown https://mtgox.com
2592 2011-05-07 20:55:17 <UukGoblin> ah cool
2593 2011-05-07 20:55:17 <gribble> http://https%3A -> Huh? Error... - Check if your website is up or down?
2594 2011-05-07 20:55:30 <mtrlt> mmyea
2595 2011-05-07 20:55:45 <BlueMatt> god mtgox is slow as hell
2596 2011-05-07 20:55:54 <UukGoblin> :-]
2597 2011-05-07 20:55:55 <rawry> BlueMatt: i honestly didn't know it was getting ddossed except the few times he's completely turned it off
2598 2011-05-07 20:55:57 <BlueMatt> dont even what to know what kind of loads are on that server
2599 2011-05-07 20:55:57 <lfm> its a market. you dont "demand" prices to be lower. If you dont want to pay the going rate you offer to buy at a lower price and wait to see if anyone will sell there
2600 2011-05-07 20:56:00 <afed> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'cl::Error' what():  clGetPlatformIDs
2601 2011-05-07 20:56:03 <afed> Aborted
2602 2011-05-07 20:56:12 <afed> how do i fix that :(
2603 2011-05-07 20:56:25 <BlueMatt> afed: what is that from?
2604 2011-05-07 20:56:31 <afed> i saw a chatlog with slush saying there was some odd font dependency but he didn't say what package it was
2605 2011-05-07 20:56:35 <BlueMatt> phoenix, poclbm?
2606 2011-05-07 20:56:44 <afed> BlueMatt: root@node0:/opt/AMD-APP-SDK-v2.4-lnx64/bin/x86_64# ./clinfo
2607 2011-05-07 20:56:57 <afed> BlueMatt: debian 6.0, driver 11.4, sdk 2.4
2608 2011-05-07 20:57:06 <BlueMatt> no idea, ask Diablo-D3 or ArtForzZz
2609 2011-05-07 20:57:46 jeremias has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2610 2011-05-07 20:58:06 <gat3way> ok there is some very stupid question from a newbie that is not at all into economics
2611 2011-05-07 20:58:28 <gat3way> those exchanges work by getting a fee out of your transactions
2612 2011-05-07 20:58:35 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2613 2011-05-07 20:58:45 robotarmy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2614 2011-05-07 20:58:52 <gat3way> it is probably a percentage of the sum exchanged
2615 2011-05-07 20:59:10 <UukGoblin> gat3way, there are some that are free, actually
2616 2011-05-07 20:59:22 <gat3way> really?
2617 2011-05-07 20:59:23 <lfm> gat3way: sometimes it is a flat fee
2618 2011-05-07 20:59:23 <gat3way> nice
2619 2011-05-07 20:59:32 <BlueMatt> mtgox = .65% on each side so 1.3% of total volume
2620 2011-05-07 21:00:12 <Kiba`> gat3way: newbies will be newbies. Don't bite them.
2621 2011-05-07 21:00:28 <gat3way> ok that invalidates my question
2622 2011-05-07 21:00:31 <gat3way> thanks :)
2623 2011-05-07 21:01:46 <gat3way> ok then what's the point of btcex attacking mtgox (sorry for dumb question, but I am not into this yet)
2624 2011-05-07 21:02:01 <gat3way> is this some kind of exchanges competition or stuff?
2625 2011-05-07 21:02:17 <mtrlt> russian politics
2626 2011-05-07 21:02:23 <mtrlt> :P
2627 2011-05-07 21:02:31 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2628 2011-05-07 21:02:32 <BlueMatt> frankly, there is no advantage.  I dont think he directly told them, but simply knows the people doing it and probably knows them well
2629 2011-05-07 21:02:39 <rawry> BlueMatt: unless you're taking out enough to do bank xfers, of course
2630 2011-05-07 21:02:47 <BlueMatt> but he might just be pissed that mtgox is winning so hard
2631 2011-05-07 21:02:48 <rawry> BlueMatt: then the fees drop dramatically
2632 2011-05-07 21:03:29 gjs278 has joined
2633 2011-05-07 21:03:34 <gat3way> both are based in Russia?
2634 2011-05-07 21:03:40 <genjix2> BlueMatt, saluton
2635 2011-05-07 21:03:44 <genjix2> cxu vi komprenas min?
2636 2011-05-07 21:03:51 <BlueMatt> hello genjix
2637 2011-05-07 21:04:03 <genjix2> mi sercxas vian githubon kaj trovis pagxon pri esperanto
2638 2011-05-07 21:04:07 <BlueMatt> wtf?
2639 2011-05-07 21:04:15 <genjix2> https://github.com/bluematt/Out-Campaign--Esperanto-
2640 2011-05-07 21:04:16 <BlueMatt> sorry I only speak english (and sort of german)
2641 2011-05-07 21:04:21 <genjix2> ohh this isn't you?
2642 2011-05-07 21:04:29 <BlueMatt> no, Im TheBlueMatt
2643 2011-05-07 21:04:30 <genjix2> lol
2644 2011-05-07 21:04:35 <BlueMatt> douche stole my name
2645 2011-05-07 21:04:54 <genjix2> what a coincidence
2646 2011-05-07 21:05:26 <rawry> afed: you don't have something dumb like the nvidia opencl stuff installed right?
2647 2011-05-07 21:05:42 <rawry> afed: the people who have publically provided debs don't have Conflicts: setup right
2648 2011-05-07 21:05:52 <afed> none of that
2649 2011-05-07 21:06:04 <afed> no debian or third party packages
2650 2011-05-07 21:06:08 <rawry> afed: you sure?: dpkg -l | grep nvidia
2651 2011-05-07 21:06:10 <afed> just the ati installer
2652 2011-05-07 21:06:16 <rawry> afed: a lot of shit pulls them in without you realising
2653 2011-05-07 21:06:40 <rawry> afed: esp if you're using the debian python-pyopencl package
2654 2011-05-07 21:06:42 <afed> not installed
2655 2011-05-07 21:06:44 <BlueMatt> IIRC python-pyopencl directly depends on nvidia-current
2656 2011-05-07 21:06:54 <afed> yes i haven't installed that package either
2657 2011-05-07 21:07:05 <gjs278> wow 400ghash on deep now
2658 2011-05-07 21:07:54 <afed> http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2011/04/05/16#l387057
2659 2011-05-07 21:08:03 <afed> i suspect i'm having the same issue slush fixed there
2660 2011-05-07 21:08:05 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
2661 2011-05-07 21:09:08 <rawry> afed: strace and see what it's trying to open
2662 2011-05-07 21:09:11 <afed> ldd clinfo and ldd libamdocl64.so don't reveal any missing deps
2663 2011-05-07 21:09:23 <afed> strace shows it trying to open a large number of things that don't exist
2664 2011-05-07 21:09:42 <rawry> aye, look for the ones right before the error that aren't normal locale/etc shit
2665 2011-05-07 21:10:37 <rawry> afed: try apt-get build-dep fglrx-driver fglrx-control
2666 2011-05-07 21:10:42 <rawry> afed: should grab everything necessary
2667 2011-05-07 21:10:53 <rawry> afed: even if you aren't using the packaged drivers
2668 2011-05-07 21:12:48 <rawry> afed: or just grab the 11.4 sources out of sid and fix the xorg-abi-10 or whatever dep and lower the xorg-server dep down to the wheezy version
2669 2011-05-07 21:12:48 <afed> yep that i did
2670 2011-05-07 21:13:15 genjix2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2671 2011-05-07 21:13:35 <rawry> (the sid packages *will not* work directly because xorg 7.5 vs 7.6)
2672 2011-05-07 21:13:36 <afed> fglrxinfo reports correctly too
2673 2011-05-07 21:13:43 allied has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2674 2011-05-07 21:13:53 genjix2 has joined
2675 2011-05-07 21:14:20 <genjix2> BlueMatt, see pm
2676 2011-05-07 21:15:59 <rawry> afed: you sure amd-app is installed right?
2677 2011-05-07 21:16:22 <rawry> afed: it's not finding /usr/lib/libatiocl64.so and that's v bad
2678 2011-05-07 21:16:36 allied has joined
2679 2011-05-07 21:16:45 <afed> they changed it to libamdocl64
2680 2011-05-07 21:17:04 <afed> it's installed under /opt with LD_LIBRARY_PATH set
2681 2011-05-07 21:17:22 <afed> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/AMD-APP-SDK-v2.4-lnx64/lib/x86_64/:
2682 2011-05-07 21:19:31 <rawry> afed: it's still looking for it at /usr/lib/libatiocl64.so for some reason
2683 2011-05-07 21:19:43 <rawry> afed: and since that's RIGHT before the error i'd guess that's the issue
2684 2011-05-07 21:20:09 <rawry> afed: what do you have in /etc/OpenCL/providers ?
2685 2011-05-07 21:20:15 <rawry> err
2686 2011-05-07 21:20:26 <afed> yeah that's installed correctly too
2687 2011-05-07 21:20:26 <rawry> /etc/OpenCL/vendors
2688 2011-05-07 21:22:10 <rawry> afed: which miner is this?
2689 2011-05-07 21:22:20 <afed> poclbm
2690 2011-05-07 21:22:49 <afed> i should see if that actually works...
2691 2011-05-07 21:22:59 <rawry> and you're using the one from 20110428 right?
2692 2011-05-07 21:23:14 <afed> i haven't installed it yet
2693 2011-05-07 21:23:42 <rawry> oh missed the part where that's clinfo giving you that
2694 2011-05-07 21:24:49 <gjs278> copy the libaticl64.so to /usr/lib
2695 2011-05-07 21:24:54 <gjs278> with a symlink
2696 2011-05-07 21:25:03 <rawry> lol
2697 2011-05-07 21:25:04 <rawry> [msg(afed)] put a sylink in /usr/lib/libatiocl64.so to point to the new, for grins
2698 2011-05-07 21:25:10 <rawry> [msg(afed)] never suggest such a thing publically, lol
2699 2011-05-07 21:26:15 <Diablo-D3> thats a very dumb idea.
2700 2011-05-07 21:26:22 <Diablo-D3> just set the fucking LD_LIBRARY_PATH correctly
2701 2011-05-07 21:26:28 <rawry> as a test to see if that's why it's throwing the erro
2702 2011-05-07 21:26:32 <rawry> Diablo-D3: already set
2703 2011-05-07 21:26:47 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,mtgox
2704 2011-05-07 21:26:47 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":3.7,"low":3.425,"vol":17869,"buy":3.64,"sell":3.674,"last":3.6402}}
2705 2011-05-07 21:26:51 <Diablo-D3> did you cd /; tar zxvf /path/to/ati-stream/icd-registration.tgz ?
2706 2011-05-07 21:26:54 <rawry> it's looking for libati* instead of libamd* for some reason
2707 2011-05-07 21:27:14 <Diablo-D3> rawry: are you switching SDKs?
2708 2011-05-07 21:27:22 <rawry> afed is having the issue
2709 2011-05-07 21:27:27 <rawry> new install afaik
2710 2011-05-07 21:27:28 <Diablo-D3> afed: are you switching SDKs?
2711 2011-05-07 21:27:30 <Diablo-D3> hrm
2712 2011-05-07 21:27:31 <Diablo-D3> because
2713 2011-05-07 21:27:37 <Diablo-D3> the way to "install" the SDK
2714 2011-05-07 21:27:39 <Diablo-D3> is you unzip it
2715 2011-05-07 21:27:46 <Diablo-D3> anywhere, not in /
2716 2011-05-07 21:27:52 <Diablo-D3> then
2717 2011-05-07 21:28:04 <Diablo-D3> export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/ati-stream-sdk-v2.1-lnx64/lib/x86_64/:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
2718 2011-05-07 21:28:11 <Diablo-D3> (substituting the right paths and names in)
2719 2011-05-07 21:28:18 <afed> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/AMD-APP-SDK-v2.4-lnx64/lib/x86_64/:
2720 2011-05-07 21:28:50 <Diablo-D3> and then cd /; tar zxvf /path/to/ati-stream/icd-registration.tgz
2721 2011-05-07 21:28:59 <rawry> Diablo-D3: looks like it's just the app he was using to test cl was working has broken dynamic loading logic
2722 2011-05-07 21:29:01 <afed> making the symlink worked
2723 2011-05-07 21:29:04 zq has joined
2724 2011-05-07 21:29:05 <rawry> and is ignoring ld_library_path ll
2725 2011-05-07 21:29:07 <rawry> lol
2726 2011-05-07 21:29:09 <Diablo-D3> afed: then your path is wrong
2727 2011-05-07 21:29:29 <Diablo-D3> remember, you have to export that export on every new terminal
2728 2011-05-07 21:29:34 <Diablo-D3> or put it in your .bashrc
2729 2011-05-07 21:30:25 <Diablo-D3> and if you didnt untar icd-registration.tgz, it still wont work right
2730 2011-05-07 21:30:27 <afed> the path is correct
2731 2011-05-07 21:30:48 <rawry> Diablo-D3: /etc/OpenCL/vendors is all correct and such
2732 2011-05-07 21:30:53 <Diablo-D3> hrrm
2733 2011-05-07 21:31:06 <Diablo-D3> ls /opt/AMD-APP-SDK-v2.4-lnx64/lib/x86_64/
2734 2011-05-07 21:31:06 kseistrup has quit (Quit: leaving)
2735 2011-05-07 21:31:08 <Diablo-D3> should list files
2736 2011-05-07 21:31:12 <rawry> Diablo-D3: p sure, like I said, it's broken dynamic runtime loading in the app he's testing with
2737 2011-05-07 21:31:17 <rawry> miner will probably work fine
2738 2011-05-07 21:32:18 <grbgout> Are any of you experiencing "Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC" with slush's pool?
2739 2011-05-07 21:32:32 <Diablo-D3> ati-stream/samples/opencl/bin/x86_64/CLInfo as it comes with the sdk works for me
2740 2011-05-07 21:32:57 <Diablo-D3>   Platform Version:				 OpenCL 1.0 ATI-Stream-v2.1 (145)
2741 2011-05-07 21:32:59 <Diablo-D3> etc etc
2742 2011-05-07 21:33:09 <Diablo-D3> so
2743 2011-05-07 21:33:10 * Diablo-D3 shrugs
2744 2011-05-07 21:33:28 <afed> clearly they bolloxed it all up when they renamed everything to amd
2745 2011-05-07 21:33:45 <SerajewelKS> is blocking outbound and inbound port 18333 on the firewall enough to ensure that a testnet instance will not connect to the rest of the network?
2746 2011-05-07 21:33:46 <Diablo-D3> afed: btw, if you went from 2.1/2.2/2.3 to 2.4, you have to untar icd-registration.tgz again
2747 2011-05-07 21:34:00 <afed> this is a new deployment
2748 2011-05-07 21:34:06 <Diablo-D3> hrrm
2749 2011-05-07 21:34:44 <Diablo-D3> let me try with 2.4
2750 2011-05-07 21:34:58 <Diablo-D3> $ echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
2751 2011-05-07 21:34:58 <Diablo-D3> /home/diablo/code/ati-stream/AMD-APP-SDK-v2.4-lnx64/lib/x86_64/:
2752 2011-05-07 21:35:09 Kiba` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2753 2011-05-07 21:35:10 <SerajewelKS> or is there another network configuration i can perform to isolate two testnet instances from the rest of the network for testing?
2754 2011-05-07 21:35:32 <Diablo-D3> SerajewelKS: you can have your router block outgoing
2755 2011-05-07 21:35:34 eao has joined
2756 2011-05-07 21:35:42 <Diablo-D3> and then just dont NAT the incoming
2757 2011-05-07 21:36:03 <Diablo-D3> huh this is interesting
2758 2011-05-07 21:36:09 <Diablo-D3> I cant find CLInfo in 2.4
2759 2011-05-07 21:36:25 <afed> they moved that as well
2760 2011-05-07 21:36:26 <Diablo-D3> ahh they moved it to bin/x86_64
2761 2011-05-07 21:36:47 <Diablo-D3>   Platform Version:				 OpenCL 1.1 AMD-APP-SDK-v2.4 (595.10)
2762 2011-05-07 21:37:02 <Diablo-D3> afed: btw, X is running for your user, right?
2763 2011-05-07 21:37:03 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2764 2011-05-07 21:37:34 sytse has joined
2765 2011-05-07 21:37:38 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
2766 2011-05-07 21:37:44 <afed> Diablo-D3: yep
2767 2011-05-07 21:37:51 <afed> things are all good now, thanks for everyone's help
2768 2011-05-07 21:37:59 <SerajewelKS> Diablo-D3: well i can block both on the same box with iptables, i just wanted to make sure that that would be enough
2769 2011-05-07 21:37:59 <afed> poclbm sees the devices
2770 2011-05-07 21:38:39 <Diablo-D3> SerajewelKS: if the testnet runs on that port, yeah, should be enough
2771 2011-05-07 21:38:43 <Diablo-D3> afed: yay.
2772 2011-05-07 21:40:49 ^1bitc0inplz has left ()
2773 2011-05-07 21:47:48 <grbgout> I don't need to open the port that a pool I'm connecting to is using do I?
2774 2011-05-07 21:50:10 <Diablo-D3> no
2775 2011-05-07 21:50:11 <Diablo-D3> thats outgoing
2776 2011-05-07 21:51:24 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 263 seconds)
2777 2011-05-07 21:51:42 <grbgout> just making sure.
2778 2011-05-07 21:52:03 <grbgout> after the debacle with this GPU, I'm thinking I need to double check everything ;)
2779 2011-05-07 21:52:21 <grbgout> The last attempt locked X again, and this time the hard restart corrupted my HDD. ^_^
2780 2011-05-07 21:53:20 <Diablo-D3> sounds like your PSU is freaking out
2781 2011-05-07 21:57:30 <BlueMatt> wow, who went on t a testnet mining spree?
2782 2011-05-07 21:58:01 <JFK911> i did
2783 2011-05-07 21:58:05 <JFK911> for a few minutes
2784 2011-05-07 21:58:10 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
2785 2011-05-07 21:58:10 <Diablo-D3> lawlz
2786 2011-05-07 21:58:38 <JFK911> if you think the .01 btc tx spam is bad
2787 2011-05-07 21:58:39 <BlueMatt> JFK911: mind doing it again for a few minutes to help me test some stuff?
2788 2011-05-07 21:58:43 <rawry> Diablo-D3: so, what is the magic that xorg does that gives the user permission to the gpu, you know?
2789 2011-05-07 21:58:54 <JFK911> wait til i do it on the live net with testnet coins
2790 2011-05-07 21:59:03 <rawry> Diablo-D3: seems kind of a waste to run x just to init perms and stuff
2791 2011-05-07 21:59:12 <JFK911> BlueMatt: sure i will switch over for a couple minutes
2792 2011-05-07 21:59:34 <BlueMatt> thanks, Im doing some testing of some more wallet privkey encryption
2793 2011-05-07 22:00:08 <BlueMatt> hopefully stuff that will build up to never storing plaintext privkeys or keying material in ram for more than a couple cpu cycles :)
2794 2011-05-07 22:00:15 <JFK911> BlueMatt: okay
2795 2011-05-07 22:00:23 <JFK911> i'll gen two or three then switch back
2796 2011-05-07 22:00:24 <JFK911> starting now
2797 2011-05-07 22:01:00 <JFK911> seems like theres been 600 blox since i tested
2798 2011-05-07 22:01:31 <JFK911> BlueMatt: good luck with this memory security
2799 2011-05-07 22:01:37 AStove has quit ()
2800 2011-05-07 22:01:48 <JFK911> i think anything beyond common sense (memset before free, etc) is not worth effort though
2801 2011-05-07 22:01:48 pesco has joined
2802 2011-05-07 22:02:02 <JFK911> hardware page protection and tpm are needed
2803 2011-05-07 22:02:29 <JFK911> also if this results in the material appearing on the bus more often it could be detrimental
2804 2011-05-07 22:02:32 <BlueMatt> no thats about all the effor I plan on doing
2805 2011-05-07 22:02:39 <rawry> BlueMatt: i should have some code that'll clear the capabilities bounding set on linux and make it so that priv escalation is impossible (barring issues in the cap implementation itself in the kernel)
2806 2011-05-07 22:02:50 <JFK911> hah really?  it should be there already.  in any case, good work for fixing it :D
2807 2011-05-07 22:03:06 <rawry> BlueMatt: which will make anything you're working on that much more secure (assuming no other external services running)
2808 2011-05-07 22:03:21 <rawry> (on linux)
2809 2011-05-07 22:03:34 <pesco> helo
2810 2011-05-07 22:04:24 <JFK911> did someone knock the difficulty on testnet up
2811 2011-05-07 22:05:59 <JFK911> okay, two went in
2812 2011-05-07 22:06:06 <pesco> random question: has anyone thought about combining bitcoin with an offline ecash system?
2813 2011-05-07 22:06:27 <JFK911> heh, transaction fees on testnet
2814 2011-05-07 22:06:37 <pesco> or providing one as a service?
2815 2011-05-07 22:06:54 <rawry> pesco: yes several people already do cash-in-the-mail
2816 2011-05-07 22:06:57 <BlueMatt> JFK911: probably mine, keep having to spend 0.01 to spend 50 TBTC from faucet
2817 2011-05-07 22:06:58 <pesco> is this a faq? ;)
2818 2011-05-07 22:07:17 <JFK911> looks like someone else is genning too
2819 2011-05-07 22:07:40 <BlueMatt> I am, but my 40MHash takes like 30 min to get a block so must be a 3rd
2820 2011-05-07 22:08:02 <JFK911> ok, i'll leave this going for a few more mins.
2821 2011-05-07 22:08:13 <BlueMatt> damn, its not signing right atm...
2822 2011-05-07 22:08:30 <BlueMatt> well you can close it, I have enough coins confirmed to spend a couple times
2823 2011-05-07 22:08:39 <BlueMatt> might need it again later, thanks
2824 2011-05-07 22:08:44 <JFK911> ok
2825 2011-05-07 22:09:01 <pesco> rawry: in the mail? i meant E-cash, as in Chaum
2826 2011-05-07 22:11:25 <rawry> pesco: i don't know what you're referring to then
2827 2011-05-07 22:13:51 <pesco> ok, cant type fast enough on this phone to explain in detail ;)
2828 2011-05-07 22:16:02 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
2829 2011-05-07 22:17:14 DuoSRX has joined
2830 2011-05-07 22:17:22 m00p has joined
2831 2011-05-07 22:18:04 genjix2 is now known as Incitatus
2832 2011-05-07 22:28:23 luke-jr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2833 2011-05-07 22:28:47 Herodes has joined
2834 2011-05-07 22:32:56 <citiz3n> anyone else here use slush's pool?
2835 2011-05-07 22:33:06 <citiz3n> ive been getting massive invalid/stale shares today
2836 2011-05-07 22:33:11 <citiz3n> and connection problems
2837 2011-05-07 22:33:18 <citiz3n> seems like something is up - this isn't normal at all
2838 2011-05-07 22:34:10 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2839 2011-05-07 22:35:38 <allied> yeah I switched pools due to that
2840 2011-05-07 22:35:46 <allied> like 10% stale
2841 2011-05-07 22:37:27 <wumpus> yes, I get RPC errors all the time
2842 2011-05-07 22:37:43 <wumpus> and a lot of stale blocks in the last two hours
2843 2011-05-07 22:38:01 <BlueMatt> yay, no unencrypted privkeys in ram patch works, not that its secure as the key is in ram, but its a start...
2844 2011-05-07 22:38:36 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, how is that even possible?
2845 2011-05-07 22:38:56 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: privkeys are all stored in ram encrypted in the same way as on-disk
2846 2011-05-07 22:38:57 <phantomcircuit> at somepoint you'll need the private key to use it
2847 2011-05-07 22:39:14 <BlueMatt> and decrypted when needed but only for a very brief period
2848 2011-05-07 22:39:20 <phantomcircuit> oh
2849 2011-05-07 22:39:49 <forrestv> how do sub-cent transactions work? why don't any pool give payouts with them?
2850 2011-05-07 22:39:51 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, so everytime the key is needed the user is queried to provide the password?
2851 2011-05-07 22:39:57 Incitatus is now known as genjix2
2852 2011-05-07 22:40:02 <phantomcircuit> forrestv, they'd never get paid
2853 2011-05-07 22:40:14 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: eventually that should happen, but for now it just keeps the password stored in ram and the user enters it at startup
2854 2011-05-07 22:40:21 <forrestv> phantomcircuit, what do you mean by that?
2855 2011-05-07 22:40:24 <BlueMatt> so for now, its pretty much worthless
2856 2011-05-07 22:40:26 <BlueMatt> but its a start
2857 2011-05-07 22:40:28 <grbgout> forrestv: there are also fees on sub-cent transactions.
2858 2011-05-07 22:40:44 <phantomcircuit> forrestv, subcent transactions either need fees or they're marked as spam
2859 2011-05-07 22:41:00 <forrestv> well i meant that a pool could pay their full amount instead of the amount rounded down to a cent
2860 2011-05-07 22:41:08 <forrestv> like 1.54152285 instead of 1.54
2861 2011-05-07 22:41:14 <BlueMatt> forrestv: if you mean ie 0.051546, its just because the pool operators havnt gotten around to implementing that
2862 2011-05-07 22:41:18 <forrestv> ah.
2863 2011-05-07 22:41:20 <BlueMatt> though luke's does
2864 2011-05-07 22:41:44 <grbgout> BlueMatt: what about forrestv's example?
2865 2011-05-07 22:42:09 <BlueMatt> grbgout: just because pool ops havnt implemented it yet
2866 2011-05-07 22:42:15 <grbgout> k
2867 2011-05-07 22:42:17 <BlueMatt> though I asked slush, and he said he would eventually
2868 2011-05-07 22:42:57 <grbgout> does slush defer the portion not paid out back into estimated/unpaid amount?
2869 2011-05-07 22:43:45 DuoSRX has quit ()
2870 2011-05-07 22:44:31 <BlueMatt> yea
2871 2011-05-07 22:44:43 <BlueMatt> AFAIK
2872 2011-05-07 22:45:49 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, honestly a simple mlockall would probably confer about as much security as encrypting in ram
2873 2011-05-07 22:46:35 luke-jr has joined
2874 2011-05-07 22:46:36 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: the difference is that normally bitcoin just stores privkeys in ram plain and instead of removing them, I found it easier to encrypt them
2875 2011-05-07 22:46:50 vorlov has joined
2876 2011-05-07 22:47:37 <BlueMatt> so if someone can ramdump you arent quite as screwed
2877 2011-05-07 22:47:47 <BlueMatt> though until it asks for passwords at decrypt time, you still are
2878 2011-05-07 22:47:57 <phantomcircuit> true a ramdump is probably more likely than ram patching
2879 2011-05-07 22:49:04 spirals has joined
2880 2011-05-07 22:49:19 <BlueMatt> yea Im not too concerned about any kind of exploits or injections of code or ram patching or whatever because honestly, if someone has that kind of access and time, no matter what you do, they have your keys
2881 2011-05-07 22:49:24 <spirals> Hi, where do I report a bug in the Linux distribution of bitcoin-0.3.21?
2882 2011-05-07 22:49:38 <BlueMatt> spirals: security: in pm to someone, otherwise: just post it here
2883 2011-05-07 22:49:43 <BlueMatt> (or on github)
2884 2011-05-07 22:50:01 <spirals> not security. bin/32/bitcoin* are just not marked executable as they were in the 0.3.20.2 distribution :)
2885 2011-05-07 22:50:09 <spirals> I had to chmod them myself.
2886 2011-05-07 22:50:15 <BlueMatt> ah, well thats a message for gavinandresen when he gets on
2887 2011-05-07 22:50:30 <spirals> Ok. Thanks.
2888 2011-05-07 22:50:38 <BlueMatt> though I doubt he will bother to change that, will have to wait for next version where build will be overhauled anyway so...
2889 2011-05-07 22:50:45 <jmpespxoreax> ?
2890 2011-05-07 22:50:51 <jmpespxoreax> whoops, wrong window
2891 2011-05-07 22:53:12 <rawry> so what would be the preffered place for me to stick this capabilities code?
2892 2011-05-07 22:53:26 <BlueMatt> rawry: stick what now?
2893 2011-05-07 22:53:47 <rawry> right now I have it sitting in a separate .c file wrapped in extern "C" { } because it's adapted code from another project (that I own copyright on)
2894 2011-05-07 22:53:58 <rawry> BlueMatt: code to completely clear the capabilities bounding set and drop all capabilities
2895 2011-05-07 22:54:03 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2896 2011-05-07 22:54:27 <rawry> BlueMatt: prevents becoming root through exec()'ing suid binaries or exec()'ing and exploiting an external program *after* a successful code execution exploit
2897 2011-05-07 22:55:19 <BlueMatt> ah, ok well I wouldnt know what the preferred way to do that is...ask sipa or jgarzik
2898 2011-05-07 22:55:23 <rawry> it's not very big, let me get it linking and i'll show you
2899 2011-05-07 22:55:33 eao has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2900 2011-05-07 22:55:42 <BlueMatt> push it up on github
2901 2011-05-07 22:55:52 <rawry> ya i will as soon as i fix the makefile.unix
2902 2011-05-07 22:56:00 <jaromil> rawry: fork bitcoin on github, commit your code in your branch and file a pull request when ready
2903 2011-05-07 22:56:07 <rawry> already forked
2904 2011-05-07 22:56:10 <jaromil> ppl will promptly read it and comment on it, its fun
2905 2011-05-07 22:56:24 <jaromil> to me what you have sounds like we need it and fast
2906 2011-05-07 22:56:25 <rawry> just wondering if there was an existing file i should be sticking the code in
2907 2011-05-07 22:56:49 <BlueMatt> I kinda doubt it, lets have a look
2908 2011-05-07 22:56:56 <rawry> jaromil: only works on linux. could probably be finagled to work on solaris but I don't have a solaris box handy
2909 2011-05-07 22:57:04 <jaromil> i'd put it into a separate file for now so ppl can read it
2910 2011-05-07 22:57:10 <rawry> k
2911 2011-05-07 22:57:21 <BlueMatt> still useful, even if people still get your bitcoin keys ;)
2912 2011-05-07 22:57:29 <rawry> *bsd *does not* implement this
2913 2011-05-07 22:58:08 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2914 2011-05-07 22:58:14 <rawry> i'm still stripping out some glue code that was necessary when it was being used for it's original purpose (ruby bindings to libcap)
2915 2011-05-07 22:58:22 dvide has joined
2916 2011-05-07 22:58:37 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
2917 2011-05-07 22:58:58 <jgarzik> rawry: what does your code do?
2918 2011-05-07 22:59:15 <jgarzik> rawry: people shouldn't be running bitcoin as root, so I don't see much value in dropping-root-capabilities patches
2919 2011-05-07 22:59:24 wolfspraul has joined
2920 2011-05-07 22:59:46 <rawry> jgarzik: it prevents the process from ever under any circumstances becoming root
2921 2011-05-07 22:59:54 <rawry> jgarzik: even by exec()'ing setuid root binaries
2922 2011-05-07 23:00:02 <BlueMatt> as a sidenote, shouldn't we reject starting bitcoin as root like many other programs?
2923 2011-05-07 23:00:06 <rawry> jgarzik: in 2.6.32+
2924 2011-05-07 23:00:19 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, no someone might want to bind to port 80
2925 2011-05-07 23:00:49 <rawry> jgarzik: if you install libcap the details are in capabilities(7)
2926 2011-05-07 23:01:01 <jgarzik> rawry: I don't see the value in it
2927 2011-05-07 23:01:31 <rawry> jgarzik: if there is wallet key encryption it prevents other attack vectors to get the wallet encryption keys
2928 2011-05-07 23:01:45 <rawry> jgarzik: through bitcoin/d itself
2929 2011-05-07 23:01:56 ErryDayImGenerat has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2930 2011-05-07 23:02:00 <BlueMatt> rawry: if you already have remote code exploit in bitcoin...not really
2931 2011-05-07 23:02:06 <jgarzik> rawry: if you have a -real world- attack to which we are vulnerable -now-, post it
2932 2011-05-07 23:02:11 <jgarzik> rawry: otherwise it's overengineering
2933 2011-05-07 23:02:12 <rawry> jgarzik: eg, exploiting a code execution issue in bitcoin and then exec()'ing something else to get root
2934 2011-05-07 23:02:13 <BlueMatt> though it prevents full system exploit from what I can tell
2935 2011-05-07 23:02:19 genjix2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2936 2011-05-07 23:02:23 <rawry> jgarzik: it's a total of ~20 loc
2937 2011-05-07 23:02:44 <rawry> BlueMatt: right.
2938 2011-05-07 23:02:47 <jgarzik> rawry: I can overengineering anything, 20 LOC at a time.  If it's not needed, it's not needed, no matter the size.
2939 2011-05-07 23:03:02 <jgarzik> overengineer
2940 2011-05-07 23:03:12 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: not really, just because we aren't exploitable that we know of, doesnt mean we shouldnt atleast do some basic stuff to prevent full system exploit after exploiting a server/p2p net binary
2941 2011-05-07 23:03:18 <rawry> imho anything that is a public service running on linux 2.6.32+ should be clearing the binding set
2942 2011-05-07 23:03:57 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: if you've exploited bitcoin, the least of your worries is executing another program
2943 2011-05-07 23:04:26 <rawry> jgarzik: I disagree. I can more about the security of the networks my clients are running on than losing bitcoins.
2944 2011-05-07 23:04:36 <rawry> s/can/care/
2945 2011-05-07 23:04:40 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: not really, if its a server with other services Id be concerned with the attacker making further exploits and pivoting around in my network
2946 2011-05-07 23:04:55 <BlueMatt> s/server with other services//
2947 2011-05-07 23:05:03 <grbgout> what if it's a bank running bitcoin (in the future, of course)?
2948 2011-05-07 23:05:21 <Diablo-D3> so
2949 2011-05-07 23:05:22 <rawry> or on a box connected to a vpn that gives access to my house?
2950 2011-05-07 23:05:26 <jgarzik> security through paranoia?  _That_ has led to plenty of pointless, buggy overengineering.  See: TSA, security theatre.
2951 2011-05-07 23:05:26 <rawry> etc
2952 2011-05-07 23:05:28 <Diablo-D3> man
2953 2011-05-07 23:05:35 <jgarzik> again: show a _real world_ exploit
2954 2011-05-07 23:05:40 <jgarzik> that applies specifically to bitcoin
2955 2011-05-07 23:05:45 <jgarzik> not generalized paranoia
2956 2011-05-07 23:05:47 <Diablo-D3> someone type bitcoin forum into google
2957 2011-05-07 23:05:52 <Diablo-D3> Bitcoin Discussion
2958 2011-05-07 23:05:52 <Diablo-D3> Mining
2959 2011-05-07 23:05:52 <Diablo-D3> Marketplace
2960 2011-05-07 23:05:52 <Diablo-D3> Development & Technical Discussion
2961 2011-05-07 23:05:53 <Diablo-D3> Recent Posts
2962 2011-05-07 23:05:54 <rawry> jgarzik: this isn't to prevent the exploit, it's to minimize any damage caused by future exploits
2963 2011-05-07 23:05:54 <Diablo-D3> Theymos
2964 2011-05-07 23:05:56 <Diablo-D3> Cusipzzz
2965 2011-05-07 23:05:58 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt
2966 2011-05-07 23:05:59 <jgarzik> it's silly to, e.g. worry about exec() security when we do not exec
2967 2011-05-07 23:06:00 <Diablo-D3> seriously?
2968 2011-05-07 23:06:02 <Diablo-D3> those three get it?
2969 2011-05-07 23:06:13 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2970 2011-05-07 23:06:14 <BlueMatt> actually, I take that back, if an attacker has remote code execution, you are screwed for pivoting anyway
2971 2011-05-07 23:06:19 <jgarzik> rawry: and you no idea whether future exploits will be applicable or not
2972 2011-05-07 23:06:21 <Diablo-D3> seriously
2973 2011-05-07 23:06:24 <Cusipzzz> Diablo-D3: ??
2974 2011-05-07 23:06:25 <Diablo-D3> why do those three guys
2975 2011-05-07 23:06:25 <Diablo-D3> get
2976 2011-05-07 23:06:27 <Diablo-D3> linked
2977 2011-05-07 23:06:28 <Diablo-D3> off of
2978 2011-05-07 23:06:29 <Diablo-D3> google
2979 2011-05-07 23:06:32 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: who the fuck cares?
2980 2011-05-07 23:06:39 <grbgout> BlueMatt: apparently Diablo-D3 does.
2981 2011-05-07 23:06:42 <Diablo-D3> Cusipzzz: type bitcoin forum into google
2982 2011-05-07 23:06:45 <Diablo-D3> and check the fast links
2983 2011-05-07 23:06:50 <rawry> jgarzik: any code execution exploit can run exec(), so no, it will always be applicable to code execution exploits
2984 2011-05-07 23:07:05 <BlueMatt> It still could be useful on a server with a ton of other stuff gets exploited but I suppose the real-world implications are minimal
2985 2011-05-07 23:07:06 <jgarzik> rawry: and how does code get executed, precisely?
2986 2011-05-07 23:07:17 <Diablo-D3> jgarzik: buffer overruns, etc
2987 2011-05-07 23:07:17 <rawry> jgarzik: ?
2988 2011-05-07 23:07:19 <Cusipzzz> Diablo-D3: i don't see anything...but i'm using vpn
2989 2011-05-07 23:07:23 <Diablo-D3> Cusipzzz: meh
2990 2011-05-07 23:07:29 <Cusipzzz> what do you see?
2991 2011-05-07 23:07:42 TheKid has joined
2992 2011-05-07 23:07:42 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
2993 2011-05-07 23:07:42 TheKid has joined
2994 2011-05-07 23:08:09 <Diablo-D3> I SEE DEAD PEOPLE
2995 2011-05-07 23:08:13 * Diablo-D3 stabs BlueMatt to death
2996 2011-05-07 23:08:14 <Diablo-D3> see?
2997 2011-05-07 23:08:25 <phantomcircuit> I SEE BLUE PEOPLE
2998 2011-05-07 23:08:28 <phantomcircuit> lol @ blue world
2999 2011-05-07 23:08:30 <Cusipzzz> lol..seriously.. i see bitcoin forum, thenbitcoin discussion, then marketplace
3000 2011-05-07 23:08:37 <Diablo-D3> oba de oba da
3001 2011-05-07 23:08:37 <rawry> jgarzik: eg, openssh uses this to drop all but the bind <1024, getent, and set*uid/gid privs in the master process
3002 2011-05-07 23:09:09 <Diablo-D3> you know
3003 2011-05-07 23:09:09 <rawry> jgarzik: this interface, i mean
3004 2011-05-07 23:09:15 <Diablo-D3> why isnt there an imagebin plugin for gimp
3005 2011-05-07 23:09:44 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: and you wonder why I think you are always high/drunk/random as fuck when you get on here
3006 2011-05-07 23:10:05 <BlueMatt> or atleast forgot to take your add pills today
3007 2011-05-07 23:10:09 <jgarzik> heh
3008 2011-05-07 23:10:12 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3009 2011-05-07 23:10:13 <Diablo-D3> http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=152226
3010 2011-05-07 23:10:22 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: no, its just fun to troll you
3011 2011-05-07 23:10:27 <Diablo-D3> Cusipzzz: ^
3012 2011-05-07 23:10:33 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: now you see why I have Diablo-D3 on /ignore...  lowers the blood pressure
3013 2011-05-07 23:10:47 <Cusipzzz> lol wow, i don't see that... with ff, chrome, ie either
3014 2011-05-07 23:10:55 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: meh, I find most of his comments quite funny
3015 2011-05-07 23:11:23 <Diablo-D3> also jpg rape colors
3016 2011-05-07 23:11:30 <Cusipzzz> ahh, i see it now ! without euro vpn
3017 2011-05-07 23:11:43 <Cusipzzz> well, google is pretty smart...
3018 2011-05-07 23:12:17 <Cusipzzz> but i haven't even posted in a while.
3019 2011-05-07 23:14:00 <Cusipzzz> pretty sure it's the linkbacks from forum sig to btcsportsbet.com and vice versa
3020 2011-05-07 23:14:00 <BlueMatt> is witchspace on ric?
3021 2011-05-07 23:14:02 <BlueMatt> irc*?
3022 2011-05-07 23:14:14 <Cusipzzz> theymos for blockexplorer
3023 2011-05-07 23:14:27 <BlueMatt> theymos because he has so many damn posts
3024 2011-05-07 23:14:33 <Cusipzzz> that too, lol
3025 2011-05-07 23:14:56 <BlueMatt> me because...well who knows what goes on in google's little head
3026 2011-05-07 23:14:57 <Cusipzzz> but if that was the case, others have more
3027 2011-05-07 23:15:18 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
3028 2011-05-07 23:15:58 bitcoiner has joined
3029 2011-05-07 23:16:07 fetokun has joined
3030 2011-05-07 23:16:10 <Cusipzzz> to bad i can't redirect that forum profile link, that's worth $$, lol
3031 2011-05-07 23:17:47 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
3032 2011-05-07 23:17:57 <BlueMatt> Im assuming most have seen this but please vote for bitcoin: http://freedomwatch.uservoice.com/forums/16625-freedom-watch-show-ideas/suggestions/1778101-bitcoin
3033 2011-05-07 23:19:03 <Cusipzzz> wow, up to # 2
3034 2011-05-07 23:19:07 <Cusipzzz> was 9 when i voted
3035 2011-05-07 23:21:00 <Diablo-D3> heh
3036 2011-05-07 23:21:07 johnlockwood has joined
3037 2011-05-07 23:21:24 LightRider is now known as afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|LightRider
3038 2011-05-07 23:24:59 <jgarzik> presumably anyone running an online vote will be suspicious of ballot stuffing, though :)
3039 2011-05-07 23:25:39 <BlueMatt> I think many of the people who vote really want to see bitcoin on whatever media outlets possible, dont know what I voted for so I dont know if that legitimately counts but it might
3040 2011-05-07 23:25:41 <molecular> not if you do it like here: http://bitpoll.dyndns.org transparently using bitcoins to vote
3041 2011-05-07 23:25:51 <Diablo-D3> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2524631
3042 2011-05-07 23:25:59 <Diablo-D3> vote up
3043 2011-05-07 23:26:41 <jgarzik> weird
3044 2011-05-07 23:26:48 <jgarzik> slush's pool Ghash/sec took a nose dive
3045 2011-05-07 23:27:05 <BlueMatt> I think its been having technical issues
3046 2011-05-07 23:27:20 <jgarzik> [Tycho] has become the ruler of the universe :)
3047 2011-05-07 23:27:31 <BlueMatt> well, him and Art
3048 2011-05-07 23:27:39 <jgarzik> does Art control 380 Ghash/sec?
3049 2011-05-07 23:27:50 <BlueMatt> ok not quite
3050 2011-05-07 23:28:05 <jgarzik> I thought Art was < 100
3051 2011-05-07 23:28:10 redengin has joined
3052 2011-05-07 23:28:28 jrabbit has joined
3053 2011-05-07 23:28:28 <wumpus> lol, someone tried submitting bitcoin to apple? yeah, this was to be expected
3054 2011-05-07 23:28:48 <BlueMatt> fucking apple
3055 2011-05-07 23:29:03 <wumpus> they only allow paying with their own payment system isn't it
3056 2011-05-07 23:29:14 <wumpus> yeah
3057 2011-05-07 23:29:24 <BlueMatt> yep thats their idea
3058 2011-05-07 23:29:42 <wumpus> it makes no sense, you buy a device but they decide what you can do with it
3059 2011-05-07 23:29:53 <jaromil> BlueMatt: tomorrow i hope to fix the autotools BTW
3060 2011-05-07 23:29:58 <mrb_> jgarzik: remove a 0. ArtForz is at 38 Ghash/s
3061 2011-05-07 23:30:08 <BlueMatt> jaromil: nice, looking forward to it
3062 2011-05-07 23:30:18 <wumpus> slush's pool seems to behaving weirdly
3063 2011-05-07 23:30:21 <BlueMatt> mrb_: no more asics over the past couple days, more now
3064 2011-05-07 23:30:25 <jaromil> now i'm busy with spring :) having phun with Pink clan
3065 2011-05-07 23:30:49 <mrb_> if he got the new 96 ASICs, then he his at 58 Ghash/s
3066 2011-05-07 23:31:11 * Diablo-D3 controls.... closer to .038 ghash than anything >_>
3067 2011-05-07 23:31:11 <mrb_> 200 Mhash/s per ASIC
3068 2011-05-07 23:31:51 <jgarzik> other big players?  mrb_ of course :) and vladimir
3069 2011-05-07 23:32:15 <jgarzik> mrb_: any chance you'd disclose your hash farm power?
3070 2011-05-07 23:32:34 <rawry> jaromil: thank you for that.
3071 2011-05-07 23:32:35 <mrb_> 24 Ghash/s next week
3072 2011-05-07 23:32:54 <mrb_> 18 now
3073 2011-05-07 23:33:36 <grbgout> jaromil: pink clan?
3074 2011-05-07 23:33:48 <jaromil> rawry: np. be sure you'll get smacked around a bit here :)
3075 2011-05-07 23:33:54 <jgarzik> mrb_: still able to source 5970's?  it's starting to sound like 5870(?) and 6990 are the easiest to source nowadays
3076 2011-05-07 23:34:02 <rawry> jaromil: no i mean re: autotools
3077 2011-05-07 23:34:03 <jaromil> grbgout: yea this guy [Pink]8D rules
3078 2011-05-07 23:34:18 <mrb_> I only buy 6990 these days
3079 2011-05-07 23:34:25 <jaromil> rawry: ack
3080 2011-05-07 23:34:32 * grbgout shrugs.
3081 2011-05-07 23:34:33 <grbgout> jaromil: I'm not familiar with the reference.
3082 2011-05-07 23:34:48 <grbgout> mrb_: no 5970s?
3083 2011-05-07 23:34:59 <jaromil> grbgout: you should play spring
3084 2011-05-07 23:35:09 <jaromil> ask Diablo-D3
3085 2011-05-07 23:35:12 <grbgout> jaromil: and here I thought you meant the season.
3086 2011-05-07 23:35:23 <mrb_> 5970 they are impossible to find new under $700
3087 2011-05-07 23:35:28 <jaromil> :)
3088 2011-05-07 23:35:34 ahbritto has joined
3089 2011-05-07 23:35:38 <grbgout> mrb_: how much are 6990s running you?
3090 2011-05-07 23:35:42 <mrb_> 6990s have the same Mhash/s/Watt and Mhash/s/$ than 5970s
3091 2011-05-07 23:36:11 <grbgout> interesting, I thought they were /slightly/ worse.
3092 2011-05-07 23:36:18 <jaromil> its an epic RTS, but i love the ambiguity on the name
3093 2011-05-07 23:36:28 <mrb_> 12 6990s
3094 2011-05-07 23:36:52 [Tycho] has joined
3095 2011-05-07 23:37:39 <mrb_> these figures per W and per $ are with my miner
3096 2011-05-07 23:39:13 <grbgout> I figured :)
3097 2011-05-07 23:39:32 <grbgout> How much are/did you paying/pay per 6990?
3098 2011-05-07 23:39:42 <rawry> stupid question, what is wxwidgets' equiv of main()?
3099 2011-05-07 23:39:50 <rawry> got this working in bitcoind but not bitcoin ;P
3100 2011-05-07 23:40:22 <phantomcircuit> rawry, oninit iirc
3101 2011-05-07 23:40:23 <Diablo-D3> ask me what?
3102 2011-05-07 23:41:03 <mrb_> $710 (no tax)
3103 2011-05-07 23:42:32 <mrb_> one distributor could do them at $696 given my volume
3104 2011-05-07 23:42:49 <mrb_> but had to wait 2-3 weeks for availability
3105 2011-05-07 23:43:15 <mrb_> I would have been losing more money by not hashing during that timeframe
3106 2011-05-07 23:45:08 skyewm has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3107 2011-05-07 23:48:33 eternal1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3108 2011-05-07 23:55:44 <lulzplzkthx> Would anyone be willing to lend me, say, 10 bitcents so I can test something, and I'd send them back at the latest in ~3 hours?
3109 2011-05-07 23:55:55 <mrb_> lulzplzkthx: address?
3110 2011-05-07 23:56:05 <lulzplzkthx> 1Dg7Re244GWBkWyhqUaeH56CXAStawHp5t
3111 2011-05-07 23:56:08 <lulzplzkthx> mrb_: Return?
3112 2011-05-07 23:56:13 <lulzplzkthx> address, that is
3113 2011-05-07 23:56:22 <mrb_> sent. txid 693830b164ad01cfb09b1117a70fef7f8cdcc91e6c9f562827172f9def02f295
3114 2011-05-07 23:56:24 <mrb_> keep them :)
3115 2011-05-07 23:56:28 <lulzplzkthx> thanks :)
3116 2011-05-07 23:56:33 <lulzplzkthx> i really appreciate it
3117 2011-05-07 23:58:51 <BlueMatt> dude, apparently someone has a mostly working bitcoin fork on qt!
3118 2011-05-07 23:59:50 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
3119 2011-05-07 23:59:51 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 23808435.3775 Khps, given current difficulty of 109670.13329248 , is 5 hours, 29 minutes, and 44 seconds
3120 2011-05-07 23:59:56 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: old news