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17 2011-05-10 00:21:46 <Ratt> Anyone know anything about pushpool?
18 2011-05-10 00:22:18 <JFK911> i hear it's problematic to build
19 2011-05-10 00:22:38 <Ratt> I've built it, just having problems connecting to it
20 2011-05-10 00:23:09 <Ratt> I am trying to get pushpoold to work, but when I try to connect poclbm to it, debug output says host connected, then client ended. No other information (other than IP information) is returned in the log and poclbm returns Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC
21 2011-05-10 00:23:30 <acfrazier> JFK911, lolz
22 2011-05-10 00:23:40 <acfrazier> Ratt, how'd you build it
23 2011-05-10 00:23:57 <acfrazier> I keep getting errors.
24 2011-05-10 00:23:59 dekz has quit (Quit: Connection reset by zombie)
25 2011-05-10 00:24:05 <Ratt> Hmm.. installed the dependencies and make -f makefile.unix -j3 and away you go.
26 2011-05-10 00:24:32 <acfrazier> I'm running into so many errors, heh
27 2011-05-10 00:24:43 <Ratt> Bitcoind was harder to build actually, cause of the stupid wxwidget 2.9 requirement and only 2.8 is in SID
28 2011-05-10 00:24:55 <acfrazier> Ratt, did you just checkout directly from the repo?
29 2011-05-10 00:25:03 <Ratt> Yeah, did a git clone
30 2011-05-10 00:25:17 <Ratt> You're using CentOS though right?
31 2011-05-10 00:25:21 <acfrazier> right.
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35 2011-05-10 00:25:24 <acfrazier> all deps are installed now.
36 2011-05-10 00:25:32 <Ratt> What error are you getting at compile time?
37 2011-05-10 00:26:40 <acfrazier> actually I get an error in configure, then when I delete that line (it's just a check for something that is installed, which it is)
38 2011-05-10 00:26:56 <acfrazier> it's a syntax error, too, which is odd
39 2011-05-10 00:27:21 <Ratt> Can you paste it?
40 2011-05-10 00:27:36 <acfrazier> http://pastebin.com/hX2NVAAi
41 2011-05-10 00:28:44 <acfrazier> at compile time I get
42 2011-05-10 00:28:50 <acfrazier> gcc: @LIBCURL@: No such file or directory
43 2011-05-10 00:29:22 kimchi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
44 2011-05-10 00:29:37 <Ratt> What libcurl rpm did you install?
45 2011-05-10 00:29:56 <acfrazier> the one in the repository.
46 2011-05-10 00:30:07 <acfrazier> checking the version.
47 2011-05-10 00:30:22 <acfrazier> Installed Packages
48 2011-05-10 00:30:22 <acfrazier> curl.i386 7.15.5-9.el5_6.2 installed
49 2011-05-10 00:30:22 <acfrazier> curl-devel.i386 7.15.5-9.el5_6.2 installed
50 2011-05-10 00:31:05 <Ratt> Hmm lemme look what version I'm using.
51 2011-05-10 00:31:32 Jefff has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
52 2011-05-10 00:31:52 <Ratt> What does locate libcurl return (assuming you ahve locate)
53 2011-05-10 00:31:55 Jefff has joined
54 2011-05-10 00:33:04 <acfrazier> /usr/lib/libcurl.so.3
55 2011-05-10 00:33:04 <acfrazier> /usr/lib/libcurl.so.3.0.0
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59 2011-05-10 00:36:26 <Ratt> That's all?
60 2011-05-10 00:36:28 <jgarzik> Ratt: on what platform are you running poclbm?
61 2011-05-10 00:36:47 <acfrazier> Ratt, yep
62 2011-05-10 00:36:58 <acfrazier> my god, the actual developer speaks
63 2011-05-10 00:37:01 <Ratt> jgarzik: On Debian 5
64 2011-05-10 00:40:12 <Ratt> I've been trying for hours to figure out what's wrong with my install... just can't get it to do anything but show the client is connected and then disconnected.
65 2011-05-10 00:40:56 <Ratt> Hmm actually, poclbm that I'm testing with is on a Ubuntu install... still pretty close to Debian 5 which is what the server is on.
66 2011-05-10 00:42:18 <Ratt> acfrazier: Did you try specifying where your libcurl is with --with-libcurl=<path to curl-config>
67 2011-05-10 00:43:53 <acfrazier> I still get the @LIBCURL@: no such file or directory error
68 2011-05-10 00:44:05 <jgarzik> acfrazier: don't build from git, build from tarball
69 2011-05-10 00:44:20 <jgarzik> acfrazier: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/
70 2011-05-10 00:44:27 <acfrazier> thank you.
71 2011-05-10 00:44:30 <Ratt> jgarzik: Is the password in the DB suppose to be plaintext or something else?
72 2011-05-10 00:44:41 <jgarzik> Ratt: what does wireshark show, when you look at HTTP protocol traces?
73 2011-05-10 00:44:46 <jgarzik> tcpdump etc.
74 2011-05-10 00:45:44 <Ratt> Well, let me find out, one sec
75 2011-05-10 00:46:21 <acfrazier> jgarzik, http://pastebin.com/SstQcKNf
76 2011-05-10 00:46:38 <acfrazier> that's what I get with the tarball.
77 2011-05-10 00:47:05 <jgarzik> acfrazier: your libmemcached is too old, and your jansson is too new (requires 1.x)
78 2011-05-10 00:47:20 <acfrazier> ah alright
79 2011-05-10 00:49:13 <luke-jr> jgarzik: what do you think about having listtransactions accept a txid in place of 'count', to signify "everything after <txid>"?
80 2011-05-10 00:49:39 <acfrazier> well, that's all that is available in the repos..
81 2011-05-10 00:49:43 <jgarzik> luke-jr: makes sense
82 2011-05-10 00:49:46 <acfrazier> do you know where I can get a newer libmemcached?
83 2011-05-10 00:49:54 <jgarzik> acfrazier: google knows
84 2011-05-10 00:53:18 <Ratt> jgarzik: It looks like binary data... should I be using 8336?
85 2011-05-10 00:54:20 <Ratt> 8337 just cycles through checking the user credentials.
86 2011-05-10 00:54:27 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
87 2011-05-10 00:55:03 EPiSKiNG has joined
88 2011-05-10 00:55:54 <acfrazier> yay build errors.
89 2011-05-10 00:57:24 <Ratt> Well hell, apparently I had the wrong password in the command line. @#$#@ that's several hours wasted. Christ I'm an idiot.
90 2011-05-10 00:57:40 <acfrazier> oh wow
91 2011-05-10 00:57:49 <JSharp> Ratt, happens
92 2011-05-10 00:57:56 <acfrazier> ^
93 2011-05-10 00:58:00 <acfrazier> I've done stupider.
94 2011-05-10 00:59:01 <EPiSKiNG> ;;sell 1 XFX Radeon HD 5970 Black Edition at "trade for 2x5870 with warranty & voltage adjustment capability if at all possible"
95 2011-05-10 00:59:01 <JFK911> good thing the error messages were clear eh
96 2011-05-10 00:59:01 <gribble> Error: 'Radeon' is not a valid price input.
97 2011-05-10 00:59:02 <Ratt> You are still getting build errors? Libcurl still?
98 2011-05-10 00:59:09 <EPiSKiNG> heh
99 2011-05-10 00:59:17 <EPiSKiNG> i guess I'll just post on the forums.
100 2011-05-10 00:59:24 <Ratt> Episking, I'll trade you
101 2011-05-10 00:59:26 <acfrazier> got past that, but new build errors are cropping up
102 2011-05-10 00:59:38 <acfrazier> http://pastebin.com/Kws39Pfw
103 2011-05-10 00:59:53 <acfrazier> ah now I know why
104 2011-05-10 00:59:53 <acfrazier> derp
105 2011-05-10 01:00:03 Cusipzzz has joined
106 2011-05-10 01:00:26 <acfrazier> hm nope
107 2011-05-10 01:00:28 <acfrazier> same error.
108 2011-05-10 01:00:40 <Ratt> I have a couple of 5870's I'll trade for a 5970
109 2011-05-10 01:02:02 <EPiSKiNG> what kind of 5870 are they?
110 2011-05-10 01:02:16 <EPiSKiNG> I'm just not impressed by hash rate with my 5970
111 2011-05-10 01:02:19 <Ratt> I have some XFX, Sapphire, Gigabyte... umm think that's it.
112 2011-05-10 01:02:36 <EPiSKiNG> 5870 gets me like 100 more MH/s per core
113 2011-05-10 01:02:46 <EPiSKiNG> ;;getrating Ratt
114 2011-05-10 01:02:46 <gribble> Error: This user has not yet been rated.
115 2011-05-10 01:03:12 <Ratt> The BE are a scam as far as anything special goes and the VRM's overheat like a bitch.
116 2011-05-10 01:03:29 <EPiSKiNG> the black edition?
117 2011-05-10 01:03:32 <Ratt> Yeah
118 2011-05-10 01:03:58 <Ratt> They are just a reference card pretty much, no idea why they put the BE label on them, they aren't OC'd out of the box.
119 2011-05-10 01:03:59 <acfrazier> so any idea why I get that build error?
120 2011-05-10 01:05:33 <Ratt> You're missing a dependency
121 2011-05-10 01:05:37 <Ratt> Umm..
122 2011-05-10 01:05:39 <acfrazier> I am?
123 2011-05-10 01:05:54 <manveru> I'm your missing dependency! :D
124 2011-05-10 01:06:05 <EPiSKiNG> I'm gonna keep trying to get this 5970 up to spec, but if I don't, you'll be hearing from me
125 2011-05-10 01:06:05 <Ratt> What version of glibc?
126 2011-05-10 01:06:28 <acfrazier> 2.5-58
127 2011-05-10 01:06:47 <Ratt> You need 2.9
128 2011-05-10 01:07:01 <Ratt> I just /msg'd you Episking
129 2011-05-10 01:07:28 <Ratt> CentOS is so out of date in so many areas, I gave up on it about a year and a half ago and switched all my servers over to Debian or Ubuntu
130 2011-05-10 01:07:56 <acfrazier> hm
131 2011-05-10 01:08:07 <acfrazier> the hypervisor my host uses doesn't like Debian or so I heard
132 2011-05-10 01:08:17 <Ratt> What hypervisor is it using?
133 2011-05-10 01:08:29 <acfrazier> I'm not exactly sure, I'll ping him next time he's on
134 2011-05-10 01:08:32 <Ratt> And how much are you paying for it?
135 2011-05-10 01:08:58 <acfrazier> $10/month, he runs a small hosting company. I've known him for like 10 years hence the cheap rate
136 2011-05-10 01:11:15 Dark_Ghost has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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139 2011-05-10 01:20:20 <jgarzik> 16.65 BTC/month for a dedicated server AMD 2x 1.8 Ghz / 4GB / 2x 320GB. Just sayin'
140 2011-05-10 01:24:35 jostmey has joined
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142 2011-05-10 01:25:26 Diablo-D3 has joined
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147 2011-05-10 01:33:16 <Ratt> Does one get a 500 error when you don't have the full block chain downloaded yet with pushpulld?
148 2011-05-10 01:35:21 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
149 2011-05-10 01:37:22 <Ratt> The answer would be yes heh
150 2011-05-10 01:37:46 vorlov has joined
151 2011-05-10 01:41:36 lylat has joined
152 2011-05-10 01:50:09 DukeOfURL has joined
153 2011-05-10 01:52:03 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,diff
154 2011-05-10 01:52:04 <gribble> 157426.20628986
155 2011-05-10 01:52:55 <Ratt> Well, finally got pushpoold working yay
156 2011-05-10 01:53:16 <Diablo-D3> did the diff go up?
157 2011-05-10 01:56:19 <gdoteof_home> yes
158 2011-05-10 01:56:23 <gdoteof_home> ~50%
159 2011-05-10 02:00:29 <CIA-30> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik * r495ec6cd2f62 pushpool/configure.ac: Version 0.4. http://tinyurl.com/3re39t5
160 2011-05-10 02:03:52 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,stats
161 2011-05-10 02:03:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123016 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1975 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 13 hours, 19 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 231605.51730529
162 2011-05-10 02:07:17 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
163 2011-05-10 02:12:16 <Ratt> .4 compiles fine as well.
164 2011-05-10 02:13:29 Cusipzzz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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166 2011-05-10 02:15:06 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
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171 2011-05-10 02:24:53 <jgarzik> cpuminer v1.0 released: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1925.msg113578#msg113578
172 2011-05-10 02:27:58 <grbgout> grats
173 2011-05-10 02:28:09 DukeOfURL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
174 2011-05-10 02:29:49 <gjs278> fucking nfs oh my fucking god disconnect already you piece of garbage
175 2011-05-10 02:29:51 <gjs278> umount
176 2011-05-10 02:29:53 <gjs278> umount -f
177 2011-05-10 02:29:54 <gjs278> umount -l
178 2011-05-10 02:29:55 <gjs278> nothing
179 2011-05-10 02:30:30 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
180 2011-05-10 02:30:39 Cusipzzz has joined
181 2011-05-10 02:32:02 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
182 2011-05-10 02:34:09 sentry has joined
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184 2011-05-10 02:35:28 Netsniper has joined
185 2011-05-10 02:35:38 bitcoinbulletin has joined
186 2011-05-10 02:35:48 <jmpespxoreax> kill -9
187 2011-05-10 02:35:56 <gjs278> there's nothing to kill
188 2011-05-10 02:36:20 <gjs278> I can't see a single process that would care that nfs is mounted right now
189 2011-05-10 02:36:31 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, lol you cant
190 2011-05-10 02:36:49 <gjs278> I'm root I can do anything
191 2011-05-10 02:36:52 DukeOfURL has joined
192 2011-05-10 02:36:53 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, lol you cant
193 2011-05-10 02:37:15 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, when an nfs server fails the client will hang indefinitely trying to reconnect
194 2011-05-10 02:37:30 <gjs278> I'll wait this one out
195 2011-05-10 02:37:35 <gjs278> man vs machine
196 2011-05-10 02:37:43 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
197 2011-05-10 02:37:55 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, is it still listed as mounted in /proc/mounts?
198 2011-05-10 02:38:07 <lfm> can you restart the server?
199 2011-05-10 02:38:22 <gjs278> I've already reconnected but that didn't appease nfs
200 2011-05-10 02:38:31 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, is it still listed as mounted in /proc/mounts?
201 2011-05-10 02:38:31 <gjs278> it's taking prisoners this time
202 2011-05-10 02:38:35 <gjs278> yeah
203 2011-05-10 02:38:39 <gjs278> and mtab
204 2011-05-10 02:38:45 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, mount -o remount,soft
205 2011-05-10 02:38:53 <phantomcircuit> that *might* work
206 2011-05-10 02:38:58 <phantomcircuit> or you might be screwed
207 2011-05-10 02:39:05 <gjs278> the almighty hang
208 2011-05-10 02:39:18 <gjs278> killing nfs serving on the machine serving it
209 2011-05-10 02:39:39 <gjs278> umount -f returns it's in use now
210 2011-05-10 02:39:45 <gjs278> umount -f again defeats the beast
211 2011-05-10 02:40:32 <gjs278> the file I was saving in the middle of all of this got zeroed out but it was worth it
212 2011-05-10 02:41:17 davex__ has joined
213 2011-05-10 02:42:31 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, that actually worked?
214 2011-05-10 02:42:36 <phantomcircuit> i've had to pull the power before
215 2011-05-10 02:42:48 <phantomcircuit> the system refused to shutdown without syncing the nfs mount
216 2011-05-10 02:42:51 <gjs278> yeah I'm going for the reonnect now
217 2011-05-10 02:43:00 <gjs278> just to save this file once more
218 2011-05-10 02:43:03 <Ratt> You can't restart the nfs process?
219 2011-05-10 02:43:03 <gjs278> and then never reconnect again
220 2011-05-10 02:43:13 <gjs278> wasnt any that I could see on my end
221 2011-05-10 02:43:30 <Ratt> ps -ef | grep nfs ?
222 2011-05-10 02:43:34 <phantomcircuit> Ratt, nfs isn't a process, it's a kernel thread
223 2011-05-10 02:43:37 <Ratt> Should have nfsd
224 2011-05-10 02:43:48 <phantomcircuit> nfsd is for losers
225 2011-05-10 02:43:48 <gjs278> nfsd was on the actual machine serving it
226 2011-05-10 02:43:58 <gjs278> because it was freebsd
227 2011-05-10 02:44:09 <Ratt> So are you like 12 phantomcircuit?
228 2011-05-10 02:44:12 <phantomcircuit> no but really i've never had nfs successfully reconnect between restarts of nfsd
229 2011-05-10 02:44:32 <gjs278> every program needs an absolute force kill don't care about the consequences option
230 2011-05-10 02:44:34 <phantomcircuit> Ratt, im immature on the internet for my age
231 2011-05-10 02:44:53 <gjs278> just like every windows program should have uninstall buttons in every window
232 2011-05-10 02:44:58 <Ratt> Fear of RL, ah, got it.
233 2011-05-10 02:45:18 <gjs278> Ratt you know how to grep for nfs on ps, there is no rl for any of us
234 2011-05-10 02:45:33 <phantomcircuit> Ratt, i got my eyes checked today, the loverly assistant was flirting with me cause of my baller "there's no place like 127.0.0.1" shirt
235 2011-05-10 02:45:43 <lfm> gjs278: thats the plug in the wall
236 2011-05-10 02:45:44 <phantomcircuit> I WAS SO HAPPY
237 2011-05-10 02:45:48 <gjs278> yeah it is
238 2011-05-10 02:45:59 <phantomcircuit> also the shirt is wrong which makes me sad everytime i wear it
239 2011-05-10 02:46:00 <phantomcircuit> :|
240 2011-05-10 02:46:12 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
241 2011-05-10 02:46:16 <gjs278> the plug in my wall served me electricity for 277 days straight
242 2011-05-10 02:46:24 <gjs278> then a 1 second blip killed my super uptime record
243 2011-05-10 02:46:42 <Ratt> Heh, any server up for 277 days is an insecure server.
244 2011-05-10 02:46:44 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, that happened to me yesterday
245 2011-05-10 02:46:50 <lfm> 277 days? mediochre uptime recodr
246 2011-05-10 02:46:51 <phantomcircuit> i had gotten kexec to work and everything
247 2011-05-10 02:46:55 <gjs278> dude
248 2011-05-10 02:46:57 <phantomcircuit> and then pg&e was like
249 2011-05-10 02:46:57 <gjs278> this is a house connection
250 2011-05-10 02:46:59 <gjs278> tell comed
251 2011-05-10 02:47:00 <phantomcircuit> HAHA NOT THIS TIME
252 2011-05-10 02:47:19 <gjs278> comed is the one with the mediocore uptime record
253 2011-05-10 02:47:24 <phantomcircuit> Ratt, uptime is preserved across kexec calls, so not encessarily
254 2011-05-10 02:47:38 davex__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
255 2011-05-10 02:47:39 <phantomcircuit> although it's kind of dumb since when it does go down you're not really sure it'll come back up
256 2011-05-10 02:47:48 <gjs278> it came back up
257 2011-05-10 02:47:55 <gjs278> I don't change anything on it
258 2011-05-10 02:47:59 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, lol yeah me too
259 2011-05-10 02:48:13 <phantomcircuit> i left a game running on my desktop that i hadn't saved though
260 2011-05-10 02:48:14 <phantomcircuit> :(
261 2011-05-10 02:48:16 <gjs278> the last thing I changed was an update to proftpd then I decided I didn't feel like keeping ftp active anymore
262 2011-05-10 02:48:24 <phantomcircuit> MY LOVERLY GAME OF RISE OF NATIONS!
263 2011-05-10 02:48:25 <lfm> hmm target for old security patches
264 2011-05-10 02:48:30 <gjs278> yeah
265 2011-05-10 02:48:34 <gjs278> proftpd will get you hacked
266 2011-05-10 02:48:51 <gjs278> the only other thing it was serving was apache and ssh
267 2011-05-10 02:48:54 <phantomcircuit> which is why you always run it as it's own user in a chroot
268 2011-05-10 02:48:56 <gjs278> probably won't get me hacked
269 2011-05-10 02:49:00 B0g4r7 has joined
270 2011-05-10 02:49:13 <lfm> apache? hmm
271 2011-05-10 02:49:15 <gjs278> well that and shoutcast
272 2011-05-10 02:49:20 <gjs278> now shoutcast might get me hacked
273 2011-05-10 02:49:27 <phantomcircuit> i've been pissing off people in hacking related channels for years and have yet to be hacked
274 2011-05-10 02:49:30 <B0g4r7> ;;bc,stats
275 2011-05-10 02:49:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123021 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1970 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 15 hours, 28 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 228319.57883510
276 2011-05-10 02:49:49 <gjs278> when I was like 13 people on fake hacker sites always insisted they could hack you with your ip address
277 2011-05-10 02:49:57 <phantomcircuit> lol
278 2011-05-10 02:50:10 <gjs278> I believe this difficulty to be true
279 2011-05-10 02:50:28 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, my favorite is giving h4x0rz an account on a vm and laughing as they try to hack the virtual network
280 2011-05-10 02:50:45 <gjs278> actually one time I had apache on windows 98
281 2011-05-10 02:50:49 <gjs278> and that actually did get haxed
282 2011-05-10 02:51:07 <phantomcircuit> oh snaps
283 2011-05-10 02:51:10 <gjs278> yeah
284 2011-05-10 02:51:12 <phantomcircuit> probably got ping of death'd too
285 2011-05-10 02:51:19 <gjs278> the guy tried "ls" like 10 times
286 2011-05-10 02:51:24 <phantomcircuit> rofl
287 2011-05-10 02:51:24 <gjs278> before he went for the almighty dir
288 2011-05-10 02:51:29 devrandom_ has joined
289 2011-05-10 02:51:49 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
290 2011-05-10 02:51:51 <gjs278> it was due to windows 98, it was due to null byte in php
291 2011-05-10 02:51:55 <gjs278> and bad escaping
292 2011-05-10 02:52:02 <phantomcircuit> oh
293 2011-05-10 02:52:19 <gjs278> being on windows actually helped in this case because he had no idea what was happening
294 2011-05-10 02:52:20 <phantomcircuit> lol my high school got bitten by the iis unicode path transversal
295 2011-05-10 02:52:23 <phantomcircuit> that was hilarious
296 2011-05-10 02:55:16 kika has joined
297 2011-05-10 02:55:50 <kika> jgarzik: can someone test if diablominer or poclbm works at my pushpoold? http://201.254.98.122 port 80 user=juan password=juan1234
298 2011-05-10 02:55:55 <kika> jgarzik: all other miners work
299 2011-05-10 02:57:01 <kika> luke-jr: do you see my pool?
300 2011-05-10 02:58:13 <kika> Diablo-D3: can you test my pool?
301 2011-05-10 02:59:19 <Diablo-D3> no.
302 2011-05-10 02:59:49 <sacarlson> kika I seem to see a blank page after login
303 2011-05-10 02:59:54 <sacarlson> with a browser
304 2011-05-10 03:00:05 dvide has quit ()
305 2011-05-10 03:00:26 <Diablo-D3> sacarlson: doesnt surprise me, you cant interact with pools's api with a browser
306 2011-05-10 03:01:06 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: IC must need some json feed back
307 2011-05-10 03:01:34 <Ratt> I'll push some hashes via poclbm if you want.
308 2011-05-10 03:01:41 ahbritto has joined
309 2011-05-10 03:01:58 <Diablo-D3> sacarlson: well yes, it has to be a post.
310 2011-05-10 03:02:00 BlueMatt has joined
311 2011-05-10 03:03:15 <Ratt> Kika: Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC
312 2011-05-10 03:06:12 <da2ce7> :)
313 2011-05-10 03:06:20 <da2ce7> G'day ppls
314 2011-05-10 03:07:57 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|anyone played around with pushpoold ?
315 2011-05-10 03:08:14 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|cant seem to get it to run, have it complied proper but wont run.
316 2011-05-10 03:08:38 <Ratt> What is the error?
317 2011-05-10 03:08:46 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|no errors
318 2011-05-10 03:09:02 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|./pushpoold --config=server.json
319 2011-05-10 03:09:05 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|and nothing happens.
320 2011-05-10 03:09:26 <lfm> by nothing does it return to prompt?
321 2011-05-10 03:09:30 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|yes
322 2011-05-10 03:09:41 <Ratt> ./pushpoold --config=server.json -F -E --debug=2
323 2011-05-10 03:09:43 <lfm> does it make log file?
324 2011-05-10 03:09:46 <Ratt> See what happens
325 2011-05-10 03:10:00 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|it only makes the shares.log in /tmp
326 2011-05-10 03:10:04 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|nothing else.
327 2011-05-10 03:10:29 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|oh nice push in the right direction Ratt
328 2011-05-10 03:10:35 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|invalid database.engine.
329 2011-05-10 03:10:54 <lfm> étmp is not a good place for that Id think
330 2011-05-10 03:11:20 <Ratt> That's the default location... it's just logging information anyway
331 2011-05-10 03:11:45 <lfm> ok it records the shares somewhere else tooÃ
332 2011-05-10 03:11:47 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|anyhow thanks, ill try from here.
333 2011-05-10 03:11:55 <lfm> ok good luck
334 2011-05-10 03:12:12 lfm has quit (Quit: brb)
335 2011-05-10 03:13:14 lfm has joined
336 2011-05-10 03:13:55 <Ratt> Records them in the database
337 2011-05-10 03:14:58 <lfm> turn off that log then, its useless
338 2011-05-10 03:15:21 <Ratt> Pretty much
339 2011-05-10 03:16:11 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|so far so good.
340 2011-05-10 03:16:16 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|having problems with mysql though.
341 2011-05-10 03:16:43 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|probably just me.
342 2011-05-10 03:17:04 <Ratt> What's the error?
343 2011-05-10 03:17:09 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|sec
344 2011-05-10 03:17:51 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
345 2011-05-10 03:18:29 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|meh
346 2011-05-10 03:18:38 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|Ratt: the errir is invalid database.engine.
347 2011-05-10 03:18:43 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|error*
348 2011-05-10 03:19:06 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|im going to try and recompile, maybe I forgot some mysql headers.
349 2011-05-10 03:19:29 <Ratt> Sounds like you did not comment out the other DB engines in the config file.
350 2011-05-10 03:19:43 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|I did
351 2011-05-10 03:19:54 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|I might need mysql_config
352 2011-05-10 03:20:02 <kika> GOT IT WORKING :d
353 2011-05-10 03:20:07 <kika> jgarzik: i had to disable the login code for it to work with poclbm
354 2011-05-10 03:20:14 <kika> luke-jr: did you read the previous line?
355 2011-05-10 03:20:20 <acfrazier> luke-jr, your pool down?
356 2011-05-10 03:20:36 <luke-jr> acfrazier: growing pains, trying to create a new index
357 2011-05-10 03:20:48 <acfrazier> ah, kk
358 2011-05-10 03:21:06 <gjs278> next time on dragon ball z: the pool is charging
359 2011-05-10 03:21:18 <kika> luke-jr: i commented out the auth code on pushpoold
360 2011-05-10 03:21:52 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|there we go
361 2011-05-10 03:21:55 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|working
362 2011-05-10 03:22:08 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|I forgot libmysqlclient-dev...
363 2011-05-10 03:22:19 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|dont hold that against me. im tired :(
364 2011-05-10 03:22:52 <Ratt> dude, I just spend 4 hours trying to figure out why my pushpoold wasn't working only to figure out that I had the wrong password set in the client.
365 2011-05-10 03:22:53 <kika> luke-jr: the default login cod doesnt work with poclbm for pushpoold i had to comment it out
366 2011-05-10 03:23:02 glassresistor has joined
367 2011-05-10 03:23:16 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|Ratt nasty.
368 2011-05-10 03:23:36 <Ratt> Went so far as to put more debug code in and recompile heh
369 2011-05-10 03:23:43 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|:)
370 2011-05-10 03:24:16 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|havend gotten so far.
371 2011-05-10 03:24:51 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|next step is to created the mysql database, by reverse engineering I guess.
372 2011-05-10 03:25:08 dbitcoin has joined
373 2011-05-10 03:25:29 <Ratt> Heh I had to pull the schema out of the code, too, but here it is:
374 2011-05-10 03:25:33 alystair has joined
375 2011-05-10 03:26:36 <Ratt> table: pool_worker | fields: username varchar(255) PRIMARY, password varchar(255)
376 2011-05-10 03:27:10 <sacarlson> anyone know how to set the curl -k "-k" option in pycurl ? I'm stuck at the https check with error 60 without the -k
377 2011-05-10 03:27:26 <Ratt> table: shares | fields: rem_host varchar(255), username varchar(255), our_result varchar(255), upstream_result varchar(255), reason varchar(255), solution varchar(255)
378 2011-05-10 03:27:28 <Ratt> That's it.
379 2011-05-10 03:28:17 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|thanks Ratt
380 2011-05-10 03:32:26 <kika> is running a pool or bitcoin ilegal?
381 2011-05-10 03:32:49 <Ratt> No
382 2011-05-10 03:33:17 <kika> so its not ilegal to run a pool?
383 2011-05-10 03:33:23 <Ratt> No, why would it be?
384 2011-05-10 03:33:29 <gjs278> technically everything is illegal
385 2011-05-10 03:35:04 Dark_Ghost has joined
386 2011-05-10 03:35:09 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,stats
387 2011-05-10 03:35:16 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123027 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1964 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 223702.67619643
388 2011-05-10 03:36:18 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
389 2011-05-10 03:36:30 <kika> gjs278: what do you mean that technically everything is illegal?
390 2011-05-10 03:37:29 <lfm> if there are gambling laws in your country, some people might claim bitcoin is gambling cuz it uses random numbers and stuff so theyd say it was illegal
391 2011-05-10 03:37:46 <kika> lfm: no gambling laws here
392 2011-05-10 03:38:16 <lfm> some countries also have weird laws about using any currency but the one true currency of that country
393 2011-05-10 03:38:24 <kika> lfm: bitcoin has nothing to do with gambling btw i dont think gambling applies to bitcoin
394 2011-05-10 03:39:05 <lfm> kika I am not a lawyer so I dont know if a lawyer would think so or not, Im just saying they might
395 2011-05-10 03:39:30 <kika> i have no idea, i dont see anything ilegal on bitcoin
396 2011-05-10 03:39:38 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
397 2011-05-10 03:39:52 <kika> lfm its like transfer bits on a videogame
398 2011-05-10 03:40:08 <kika> lfm if a bit transfer is ilegal then we cant use techonology at all lol
399 2011-05-10 03:40:13 <lfm> some countries have weird laws about what encryption you can and cant use. bitcoin uses weird encryption
400 2011-05-10 03:40:20 bk128 has joined
401 2011-05-10 03:40:31 <kika> lfm: what do you mean by weird encryption?
402 2011-05-10 03:41:01 <lfm> kika public key signatures and cryptographifly secure hashes
403 2011-05-10 03:41:12 <kika> lfm: well, linux uses those too
404 2011-05-10 03:41:18 <lfm> yup
405 2011-05-10 03:41:25 <kika> lfm: linux isnt ilegal here :P
406 2011-05-10 03:41:31 <lfm> you sure?
407 2011-05-10 03:41:55 <kika> lfm: why would it be ilegal?
408 2011-05-10 03:41:57 <Ratt> There's nothing wierd about the encryption.
409 2011-05-10 03:42:00 <luke-jr> Linux is only illegal in Texas
410 2011-05-10 03:42:04 <Ratt> By definition, if it was wierd it would likely be insecure.
411 2011-05-10 03:42:17 <kika> Argentina doesnt have any restrictions on encryption i think
412 2011-05-10 03:42:42 <lfm> ratt the law doesnt care if its really secure or not, they just dont want you doing it
413 2011-05-10 03:42:53 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
414 2011-05-10 03:43:06 bitcoiner has joined
415 2011-05-10 03:43:14 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|it works lol
416 2011-05-10 03:44:31 <lfm> if your a federal employee it may be illegal for you to use anything but des and aes
417 2011-05-10 03:45:43 <kika> lfm: what do you mean? that federal employees just can use aes and des?
418 2011-05-10 03:45:48 <EPiSKiNG> So I'm trying to use my PCI-e 1x slot for a 5870 that I have
419 2011-05-10 03:45:57 <EPiSKiNG> should I buy a 1x-16x adapter?
420 2011-05-10 03:46:04 <lfm> kika they need special permission to use anything else
421 2011-05-10 03:46:16 <EPiSKiNG> anyone have experience with the pci-e risers?
422 2011-05-10 03:46:24 fimp has joined
423 2011-05-10 03:46:25 <kika> what would happen guys if i connect 3 ati cards to a motherboard? no crossfire thing, ill be able to mine on those 3 ?
424 2011-05-10 03:46:43 <lfm> maybe
425 2011-05-10 03:46:48 <EPiSKiNG> kika: yes, with dummy plugs or monitors plugged in to each
426 2011-05-10 03:46:50 <kika> i would have to connect the VGA adapter to only one of the cards to get scren?
427 2011-05-10 03:46:58 <bk128> EPiSKiNG: http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42
428 2011-05-10 03:47:02 <kika> EPiSKiNG: i see so i need the dummy plugs?
429 2011-05-10 03:47:24 <lfm> kika on linux or mswin?
430 2011-05-10 03:47:53 <kika> lfm: win
431 2011-05-10 03:47:59 <kika> lfm: and linux
432 2011-05-10 03:48:04 <kika> lfm: whats the difference?
433 2011-05-10 03:48:14 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
434 2011-05-10 03:48:16 <lfm> linux doesnt need the plugs
435 2011-05-10 03:48:33 <kika> lfm: i see so basically on linux i wont need dummy plugs for the other two cards
436 2011-05-10 03:48:41 <kika> lfm: but on windows ill need them right?
437 2011-05-10 03:48:52 <lfm> well you could just buy extra monitors
438 2011-05-10 03:49:12 <kika> lfm: dummy plugs would be enough
439 2011-05-10 03:49:20 <lfm> or switch the plug for a monitor around a lot
440 2011-05-10 03:49:22 <kika> lfm: anything else ill need to do?
441 2011-05-10 03:50:07 <lfm> I dont really use mswin , its just what I heard
442 2011-05-10 03:50:32 <kika> i see well but on linux i wont need dummy plugs right?
443 2011-05-10 03:50:41 <Ratt> Correct
444 2011-05-10 03:50:49 <kika> lfm: how ill know which of the 3 cards i need to connect the VGA adapter to the monitor?
445 2011-05-10 03:52:20 <kika> basically how ill know which one of the 3 is the main card, or i can connect to any and it would be the same?
446 2011-05-10 03:52:29 dust1 has joined
447 2011-05-10 03:52:35 <lfm> i dunno, ask Bill Gates
448 2011-05-10 03:52:38 <Ratt> The card in the first slot
449 2011-05-10 03:52:54 <kika> Ratt: wondering which one is considered the first slot
450 2011-05-10 03:52:54 <kika> hehe
451 2011-05-10 03:53:32 <kika> ok guys need to go to sleep thanks!
452 2011-05-10 03:53:34 <kika> good night
453 2011-05-10 03:53:34 dust1 is now known as [DusT]
454 2011-05-10 03:53:39 <EPiSKiNG> Where's Tycho.. all my miners are showing offline
455 2011-05-10 03:53:55 <EPiSKiNG> musta gone down for a second
456 2011-05-10 03:54:13 <Diablo-D3> not done for me
457 2011-05-10 03:54:29 <EPiSKiNG> wtf!!!
458 2011-05-10 03:54:31 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,mtgox
459 2011-05-10 03:54:31 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.99,"low":3.7004,"vol":22806,"buy":4.051,"sell":4.399,"last":4.05}}
460 2011-05-10 03:54:32 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|Ratt have you got it to update the shares table?
461 2011-05-10 03:56:21 BurtyBB has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
462 2011-05-10 03:56:51 <bk128> how do you make a "dummy plug"?
463 2011-05-10 03:57:03 BurtyBB has joined
464 2011-05-10 03:57:05 <bk128> do you just need it attached when win boots?
465 2011-05-10 03:58:11 sacarlson has joined
466 2011-05-10 03:58:11 <Ratt> I haven't tried yet, Kreal
467 2011-05-10 03:58:16 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|okie
468 2011-05-10 03:58:39 kika has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
469 2011-05-10 03:59:09 <gjs278> damn
470 2011-05-10 03:59:23 <gjs278> that's some good price
471 2011-05-10 03:59:31 <gjs278> bc,mtgox
472 2011-05-10 03:59:36 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
473 2011-05-10 03:59:36 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.99,"low":3.7015,"vol":22832,"buy":4.06,"sell":4.398,"last":4.051}}
474 2011-05-10 04:00:40 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
475 2011-05-10 04:00:41 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.99,"low":3.7015,"vol":22832,"buy":4.06,"sell":4.397,"last":4.051}}
476 2011-05-10 04:03:08 <bk128> gjs278: take it in pm with gribble :)
477 2011-05-10 04:03:13 <gjs278> never
478 2011-05-10 04:03:23 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
479 2011-05-10 04:03:23 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.99,"low":3.7015,"vol":22794,"buy":4.071,"sell":4.397,"last":4.06}}
480 2011-05-10 04:03:32 <bk128> ...
481 2011-05-10 04:03:52 <gjs278> 4.128 I sell in your honor
482 2011-05-10 04:05:46 ForceDestroyer has quit (Disconnected by services)
483 2011-05-10 04:05:46 Kicchiri has joined
484 2011-05-10 04:06:12 DavidSJ has joined
485 2011-05-10 04:07:15 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
486 2011-05-10 04:09:20 <da2ce7> luke-jr, you pool all back up n' running?
487 2011-05-10 04:10:36 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
488 2011-05-10 04:10:50 <luke-jr> da2ce7: yeah, but I'm suspecting I screwed up big there
489 2011-05-10 04:11:28 <da2ce7> *move back to pool mining to check*
490 2011-05-10 04:11:57 <luke-jr> yep, I did.
491 2011-05-10 04:11:58 <luke-jr> crap.
492 2011-05-10 04:12:52 <da2ce7> it so ins't working.
493 2011-05-10 04:13:24 <luke-jr> it is now
494 2011-05-10 04:13:25 <luke-jr> but it overpaid a bunch of addresses a bunch of moneys
495 2011-05-10 04:13:27 <luke-jr> :/
496 2011-05-10 04:13:32 <luke-jr> and as a result, underpaid others
497 2011-05-10 04:14:31 <da2ce7> :(
498 2011-05-10 04:15:36 <luke-jr> 12.97488243 overdrawn
499 2011-05-10 04:15:48 <luke-jr> guess all I can do is post the addresses and hope people are honest
500 2011-05-10 04:16:12 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
501 2011-05-10 04:16:13 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6084537.00267 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 1 day, 6 hours, 52 minutes, and 4 seconds
502 2011-05-10 04:16:19 <luke-jr> ouch
503 2011-05-10 04:16:23 <luke-jr> 6 GH :|
504 2011-05-10 04:16:44 <da2ce7> ah... I cannot conenct to the pool
505 2011-05-10 04:17:45 sethsethseth has joined
506 2011-05-10 04:18:11 <luke-jr> da2ce7: fixed
507 2011-05-10 04:18:15 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
508 2011-05-10 04:18:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6084537.00267 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 1 day, 6 hours, 52 minutes, and 4 seconds
509 2011-05-10 04:18:46 <da2ce7> Yep back up and running
510 2011-05-10 04:19:44 <da2ce7> 1.2GHash/s added
511 2011-05-10 04:19:46 <underscor> Need to find an easy way to convert $50 to bitcoins via paypal
512 2011-05-10 04:19:54 <underscor> anyone have any ideas now that coinpal is down?
513 2011-05-10 04:20:01 <da2ce7> underscor, try #bitcoin-otc
514 2011-05-10 04:20:07 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
515 2011-05-10 04:20:10 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6084537.00267 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 1 day, 6 hours, 52 minutes, and 4 seconds
516 2011-05-10 04:20:14 <underscor> da2ce7: thanks
517 2011-05-10 04:20:33 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
518 2011-05-10 04:20:34 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 15046702.0937 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 12 hours, 28 minutes, and 56 seconds
519 2011-05-10 04:23:02 glassresistor has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
520 2011-05-10 04:26:29 bitcoiner has joined
521 2011-05-10 04:28:09 <sethsethseth> ;;bc,stats
522 2011-05-10 04:28:15 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123032 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1959 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 16 hours, 54 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 224796.10837369
523 2011-05-10 04:29:03 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
524 2011-05-10 04:29:18 phantomcircuit has joined
525 2011-05-10 04:29:45 <lfm> ;;bc,calc [bc,deepbit]
526 2011-05-10 04:29:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 525177000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 21 minutes and 27 seconds
527 2011-05-10 04:30:42 <gjs278> with the new price rise, I'm still getting $30~ a day on 1.1 ghash
528 2011-05-10 04:30:50 <gjs278> little more than that
529 2011-05-10 04:31:17 <phantomcircuit> lol @ mtgox price spike
530 2011-05-10 04:31:19 <phantomcircuit> someone failed at bidding
531 2011-05-10 04:31:38 <gjs278> it went back up to 4.30 like two minutes ago
532 2011-05-10 04:31:57 <gjs278> imagine the trolling all of the people who set their sell price to $5 just experience
533 2011-05-10 04:31:58 <gjs278> d
534 2011-05-10 04:31:59 sentry has quit (Quit: Wow! What a great client! Bersirc 2.2 [ http://www.bersirc.org/ - Open Source IRC ])
535 2011-05-10 04:31:59 <phantomcircuit> a trade went through for 4.9876
536 2011-05-10 04:32:45 <gjs278> that extra 3 cents they wanted per coin screwed them
537 2011-05-10 04:33:10 <afed> lol what the fuck is that increase from
538 2011-05-10 04:33:23 <phantomcircuit> someone bought a ton of coins
539 2011-05-10 04:34:07 <gjs278> a hero did it
540 2011-05-10 04:34:09 <gjs278> that's who
541 2011-05-10 04:34:17 <gjs278> it was probably ron paul
542 2011-05-10 04:34:24 <gjs278> he cashed out his money from the donations
543 2011-05-10 04:34:33 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
544 2011-05-10 04:34:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 27888654.3087 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 6 hours, 44 minutes, and 4 seconds
545 2011-05-10 04:35:27 sentry has joined
546 2011-05-10 04:36:58 Aahzmundus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
547 2011-05-10 04:37:18 Aahzmundus has joined
548 2011-05-10 04:44:35 brooss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
549 2011-05-10 04:44:58 brooss has joined
550 2011-05-10 04:44:58 Silverpike has joined
551 2011-05-10 04:46:53 <sethsethseth> whats the channel that lists all the mtgox orders?
552 2011-05-10 04:47:47 <tcoppi> #bitcoin-market
553 2011-05-10 04:48:44 <afed> i love bit coins i love bit coins meow meow meow meow i love bit coins
554 2011-05-10 04:51:05 <luke-jr> EVERYONE MINING ON ELIGIUS PLEASE READ: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6667.msg113827#msg113827
555 2011-05-10 04:52:21 devon_hillard has joined
556 2011-05-10 04:52:25 <EvanR> afed: omg wtf are you
557 2011-05-10 04:52:50 blablaa has joined
558 2011-05-10 04:52:58 blablaa has left ()
559 2011-05-10 04:53:00 <AAA_awright> Who does the My Gox website?
560 2011-05-10 04:53:05 <AAA_awright> *MtGox
561 2011-05-10 04:54:07 <EvanR> MagicalTux
562 2011-05-10 04:54:23 <AAA_awright> The depth of market chart should be an integration of the points, i.e. the number of Bitcoin available for trade at that price
563 2011-05-10 04:54:31 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, dude...
564 2011-05-10 04:54:33 <AAA_awright> Not each outstanding order
565 2011-05-10 04:59:30 BitMark has joined
566 2011-05-10 05:01:15 llama has quit (Quit: llama)
567 2011-05-10 05:02:27 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
568 2011-05-10 05:02:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 29549374.9965 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 6 hours, 21 minutes, and 21 seconds
569 2011-05-10 05:02:36 <luke-jr> lost 20 GH? :/
570 2011-05-10 05:04:46 <ErrydayimGenerat> depression?
571 2011-05-10 05:05:30 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, heh i wonder why...
572 2011-05-10 05:05:46 [DusT] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
573 2011-05-10 05:05:53 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ?
574 2011-05-10 05:06:17 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: I think admitting the problem, explaining what happened, and explaining how I'll fix it, is the best way to handle it�
575 2011-05-10 05:06:35 <phantomcircuit> yeah it's the best response to the problem
576 2011-05-10 05:06:42 <phantomcircuit> but having the problem at all is a problem
577 2011-05-10 05:07:17 <luke-jr> it's a new pool, with new concepts, one of which involves immediate payouts⦠:p
578 2011-05-10 05:07:31 <luke-jr> can't predict every possible problem
579 2011-05-10 05:07:40 <phantomcircuit> no argument here
580 2011-05-10 05:07:46 <luke-jr> I did 6 rounds of testing before deploying ti
581 2011-05-10 05:07:47 <luke-jr> it*
582 2011-05-10 05:08:06 <luke-jr> now I know to test it with the cache enabled too
583 2011-05-10 05:08:27 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
584 2011-05-10 05:09:41 <doublec> what happened?
585 2011-05-10 05:09:56 dust1 has joined
586 2011-05-10 05:10:14 <luke-jr> doublec: pool calculated payouts based on all-shares-ever instead of all-shares-since-last-block
587 2011-05-10 05:10:26 <doublec> ah right
588 2011-05-10 05:10:35 <luke-jr> and we happened to find a block during that 5-10 minute window -.-
589 2011-05-10 05:12:53 sc8nt4u has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
590 2011-05-10 05:13:53 <doublec> what are those lists of addresses with 'has' and a negative number in your post?
591 2011-05-10 05:14:09 wolfspraul has joined
592 2011-05-10 05:14:12 <luke-jr> doublec: people who were overpaid
593 2011-05-10 05:14:16 <doublec> is that you outing those that got overpaid aloog with their username?
594 2011-05-10 05:14:19 <doublec> that's pretty evil
595 2011-05-10 05:14:23 <luke-jr> ?
596 2011-05-10 05:14:39 <luke-jr> it's all public data anyway, I'm just asking for them to make it up :p
597 2011-05-10 05:14:47 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
598 2011-05-10 05:14:47 <doublec> it's not their fault they got overpaid. So why are you outing associations of username with addresses?
599 2011-05-10 05:14:48 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.99,"low":3.7301,"vol":24291,"buy":4.206,"sell":4.3,"last":4.29}}
600 2011-05-10 05:15:07 <jrmithdobbs> overpaid how?
601 2011-05-10 05:15:08 toffoo has quit ()
602 2011-05-10 05:15:11 <jrmithdobbs> did i miss drama
603 2011-05-10 05:15:29 <doublec> luke-jr: where is this data public other than that post?
604 2011-05-10 05:15:44 ahbritto__ has joined
605 2011-05-10 05:15:46 toffoo has joined
606 2011-05-10 05:16:07 <luke-jr> doublec: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/pool/
607 2011-05-10 05:16:22 <luke-jr> oh, you mean that part
608 2011-05-10 05:16:48 <doublec> it's the including usernames I think is bad
609 2011-05-10 05:16:54 <luke-jr> good point, removed
610 2011-05-10 05:16:58 <doublec> cool, thanks
611 2011-05-10 05:17:00 <luke-jr> that was mainly for my own reference
612 2011-05-10 05:17:12 <jrmithdobbs> ew
613 2011-05-10 05:17:14 <luke-jr> kinda just pasted a text file into there :P
614 2011-05-10 05:17:14 <doublec> none of them are me but I'd be annoyed if it was
615 2011-05-10 05:17:17 <jrmithdobbs> ya why does that expose usernames?
616 2011-05-10 05:17:25 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: ?
617 2011-05-10 05:17:26 <jrmithdobbs> fix that
618 2011-05-10 05:17:32 <jrmithdobbs> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/pool/balances.json
619 2011-05-10 05:17:34 <luke-jr> usernames=addresses
620 2011-05-10 05:17:40 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: addresses are public
621 2011-05-10 05:17:44 <luke-jr> or else it couldn't pay you
622 2011-05-10 05:17:51 <lfm> howd they get overpaid?
623 2011-05-10 05:17:53 <jrmithdobbs> wait, i misread your json
624 2011-05-10 05:17:54 <jrmithdobbs> sorry
625 2011-05-10 05:18:03 <luke-jr> lfm: bug
626 2011-05-10 05:18:13 <luke-jr> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6667.msg113827#msg113827
627 2011-05-10 05:18:13 <jrmithdobbs> but yes, who got overpaid for what?
628 2011-05-10 05:18:16 <lfm> luke-jryour bug?
629 2011-05-10 05:18:23 <luke-jr> lfm: yah
630 2011-05-10 05:20:41 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|jgarzik are you here ?
631 2011-05-10 05:21:55 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|if you are, in 0.4 of pushpool is mysql coded to fill out the "shares" table?
632 2011-05-10 05:22:11 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|before I drive myself crazy trying to fix it.
633 2011-05-10 05:22:55 <luke-jr> kreal|: it works fine with mysql
634 2011-05-10 05:23:24 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|hmm, then I fail.
635 2011-05-10 05:23:41 <luke-jr> and I succeed.
636 2011-05-10 05:23:42 <luke-jr> :P:
637 2011-05-10 05:23:48 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|everything else works, just cant get it to fill out shares table.
638 2011-05-10 05:24:06 <Ratt> I just tried it, same problem yeah.
639 2011-05-10 05:24:08 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|oh well might as well just goto work.
640 2011-05-10 05:24:17 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|just need sleep hehe
641 2011-05-10 05:25:03 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|Ratt in your config file, I use server.json
642 2011-05-10 05:25:15 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|insert "sharelog" : true under database.
643 2011-05-10 05:25:20 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|thats how far I got...
644 2011-05-10 05:25:58 <Ratt> Where'd you find that info?
645 2011-05-10 05:26:02 <luke-jr> â¦
646 2011-05-10 05:26:22 * luke-jr wonders if jgarzik intentionally designed pushpool to require expert C skills to use.
647 2011-05-10 05:26:46 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|it seems to fail at line 139 in db-mysql.c
648 2011-05-10 05:26:53 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: that would be amusing.
649 2011-05-10 05:26:59 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|Ratt lurking around in the code.
650 2011-05-10 05:28:29 <gjs278> next time on dragon ball z: gohan is becoming an expert in c
651 2011-05-10 05:29:16 <Jefff> luke-jr, because I don't want to continue to sound dumb, how do you pronounce Eligius? ;p
652 2011-05-10 05:29:50 <luke-jr> Jefff: um, good question >.>
653 2011-05-10 05:29:57 <Ratt> What error are you getting Kreal?
654 2011-05-10 05:30:06 <Jefff> Because, I can't decide on one that sounds good.. ;p
655 2011-05-10 05:30:07 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|err_out:
656 2011-05-10 05:30:11 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|mysql sharelog failed
657 2011-05-10 05:30:35 <Ratt> I'd image it's "El-E-Gee-US" or "E-LEE-GEE-US"
658 2011-05-10 05:30:46 <noagendamarket> religious without the r
659 2011-05-10 05:30:53 <jgarzik> I wonder what pool software eleuthria's BTC Guild is running?
660 2011-05-10 05:31:08 <luke-jr> IMO El-EYE-Gee-US
661 2011-05-10 05:31:20 <luke-jr> Jefff: please let me know if you find an authoritative pronunciation
662 2011-05-10 05:31:22 Cusipzzz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
663 2011-05-10 05:31:32 <Jefff> Alright, I keep looking
664 2011-05-10 05:31:43 <gjs278> someone on skype asked me what eligius was today and I felt like an inside trader in the stock exchange for knowing all of the details
665 2011-05-10 05:31:44 plutonic has joined
666 2011-05-10 05:31:48 <MagicalTux> EvanR, ?
667 2011-05-10 05:32:06 midnightmagic has quit (Quit: quit)
668 2011-05-10 05:32:07 <luke-jr> Jefff: related to the French "Ãloi"
669 2011-05-10 05:32:08 <Ratt> Well, traditional Latin would be E-Lee-GEE-us
670 2011-05-10 05:32:13 <lfm> L.I.G.us
671 2011-05-10 05:32:20 <EvanR> MagicalTux: answer to the question who runs mtgox
672 2011-05-10 05:32:27 <gjs278> this isn't jeopardy
673 2011-05-10 05:32:35 <lfm> are those luke's initials?
674 2011-05-10 05:32:42 <EvanR> thats so funny i forgot to laugh
675 2011-05-10 05:32:45 <luke-jr> Ratt: interesting
676 2011-05-10 05:32:49 <gjs278> LUKE IS GAY UNITED STATES
677 2011-05-10 05:32:54 midnightmagic has joined
678 2011-05-10 05:32:54 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
679 2011-05-10 05:32:57 <gjs278> thats what it means
680 2011-05-10 05:33:06 alystair has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
681 2011-05-10 05:33:24 midnightmagic has joined
682 2011-05-10 05:33:24 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
683 2011-05-10 05:33:54 <Ratt> The GEE is a hard "G" not a "J"
684 2011-05-10 05:33:54 midnightmagic has joined
685 2011-05-10 05:33:54 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
686 2011-05-10 05:34:10 <gjs278> I really think hard and soft g should be flipped
687 2011-05-10 05:34:24 midnightmagic has joined
688 2011-05-10 05:34:24 <gjs278> JIFF sounds hard
689 2011-05-10 05:34:25 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
690 2011-05-10 05:34:36 <Ratt> It's about the glottal
691 2011-05-10 05:34:44 <Ratt> That defines hard and soft
692 2011-05-10 05:34:46 <gjs278> is glottal soft or hard
693 2011-05-10 05:34:54 midnightmagic has joined
694 2011-05-10 05:34:54 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
695 2011-05-10 05:34:58 <Jefff> In classical latin, yes..
696 2011-05-10 05:35:01 <gjs278> mignightmagic stop trolling
697 2011-05-10 05:35:03 <Ratt> A glottal stop is typically a hard consonent
698 2011-05-10 05:35:04 <Jefff> All 'g's are hard..
699 2011-05-10 05:35:13 <Ratt> All G's are not hard.
700 2011-05-10 05:35:22 <gjs278> all the g's I know are hard
701 2011-05-10 05:35:24 midnightmagic has joined
702 2011-05-10 05:35:24 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
703 2011-05-10 05:35:33 <Ratt> Giraffe
704 2011-05-10 05:35:39 <gjs278> is that hard or soft
705 2011-05-10 05:35:42 <Ratt> Soft
706 2011-05-10 05:35:44 <gjs278> yeah
707 2011-05-10 05:35:47 <gjs278> they need to flip it
708 2011-05-10 05:35:49 <Jefff> Unless it's outside my, admittadly limited latin experience..
709 2011-05-10 05:35:53 <Jefff> I meant in Latin..
710 2011-05-10 05:35:54 midnightmagic has joined
711 2011-05-10 05:35:54 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
712 2011-05-10 05:35:55 <Ratt> Oh
713 2011-05-10 05:36:01 <Ratt> Yeah, Jeff, I agree
714 2011-05-10 05:36:02 <gjs278> giraffe should be hard
715 2011-05-10 05:36:02 <Jefff> English has plenty of soft g's..
716 2011-05-10 05:36:07 <gjs278> because you have to use your teeth
717 2011-05-10 05:36:09 <Jefff> Like, Gigantic..
718 2011-05-10 05:36:24 midnightmagic has joined
719 2011-05-10 05:36:24 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
720 2011-05-10 05:36:25 <Ratt> You still here Kreal?
721 2011-05-10 05:36:33 <Jefff> All C's in Latin are hard also, if I remember correctly..
722 2011-05-10 05:36:35 <gjs278> gun just sounds soft
723 2011-05-10 05:36:36 <Ratt> Or Jiggawatt... I kid.. I kid.
724 2011-05-10 05:36:54 midnightmagic has joined
725 2011-05-10 05:36:54 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
726 2011-05-10 05:36:59 <Ratt> It's not about the sound, it's about the friction and plosive positioning of the tongue
727 2011-05-10 05:37:04 <Jefff> Technically, jiggawatt is more right.. ;p
728 2011-05-10 05:37:12 <luke-jr> Jefff: technically, SI sucks
729 2011-05-10 05:37:15 <Jefff> Because 'giga' comes from 'gigantic'.. ;p
730 2011-05-10 05:37:24 midnightmagic has joined
731 2011-05-10 05:37:25 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
732 2011-05-10 05:37:27 <Jefff> I like SI.. It's useful for engineering and stuff..
733 2011-05-10 05:37:34 <gjs278> yeah except I don't move my tongue when I say gun
734 2011-05-10 05:37:38 <luke-jr> it's inferior!
735 2011-05-10 05:37:38 <gjs278> oh wow I do
736 2011-05-10 05:37:44 <gjs278> well
737 2011-05-10 05:37:46 <gjs278> only for the n
738 2011-05-10 05:37:47 <gjs278> not the g
739 2011-05-10 05:37:51 <luke-jr> lol
740 2011-05-10 05:37:54 midnightmagic has joined
741 2011-05-10 05:37:55 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
742 2011-05-10 05:38:05 <luke-jr> someone tell midnightmagic to stop flooding
743 2011-05-10 05:38:09 <gjs278> he's trolling
744 2011-05-10 05:38:16 <gjs278> no client could flood this long
745 2011-05-10 05:38:20 <Ratt> You can't say gun without moving your tongue heh
746 2011-05-10 05:38:25 midnightmagic has joined
747 2011-05-10 05:38:25 midnightmagic has quit (Changing host)
748 2011-05-10 05:38:25 midnightmagic has joined
749 2011-05-10 05:38:25 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
750 2011-05-10 05:38:37 <gjs278> next time on dragonball z: midnightmagic is still flooding
751 2011-05-10 05:38:40 <luke-jr> Ratt: I can pronounce it 'kun' :p
752 2011-05-10 05:38:42 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|yes Ratt
753 2011-05-10 05:38:46 <Ratt> You can't make the G sound, hard or soft without using your tongue. As a soft, it's a fricative and as a hard it's a plosive.
754 2011-05-10 05:38:54 midnightmagic has joined
755 2011-05-10 05:38:54 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
756 2011-05-10 05:38:59 <gjs278> I can go guh all day without moving my tongue
757 2011-05-10 05:39:03 <Ratt> K is just further forward on the tongue than G
758 2011-05-10 05:39:16 <gjs278> if I had no tongue I could say guh
759 2011-05-10 05:39:20 <Ratt> No you can't, it's impossible to make a G sound without the tongue
760 2011-05-10 05:39:22 <luke-jr> aha
761 2011-05-10 05:39:22 <gjs278> I'll go find out for real
762 2011-05-10 05:39:32 <luke-jr> I just said 'gun' w/o *moving* my tongue
763 2011-05-10 05:39:46 <gjs278> see it should be the other way around
764 2011-05-10 05:39:51 <Ratt> For the record, I'm a linguist. I'm telling you, you can't do it.
765 2011-05-10 05:39:53 <gjs278> because it's harder to say gif than gun
766 2011-05-10 05:39:54 midnightmagic has joined
767 2011-05-10 05:39:55 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
768 2011-05-10 05:40:00 <gjs278> gif requires more effort
769 2011-05-10 05:40:01 <gjs278> it's harder
770 2011-05-10 05:40:25 sethsethseth_ has joined
771 2011-05-10 05:40:25 midnightmagic has joined
772 2011-05-10 05:40:46 <gjs278> I just held my tongue down I couldnt say gif, but I could still go "guh" all day
773 2011-05-10 05:41:13 <gjs278> report my findings to the linguists
774 2011-05-10 05:41:33 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
775 2011-05-10 05:41:36 <Ratt> Steve Wilhite notwithstanding, GIF is a hard G.
776 2011-05-10 05:41:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 34202256.2338 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 5 hours, 29 minutes, and 28 seconds
777 2011-05-10 05:41:44 <gjs278> oh
778 2011-05-10 05:41:46 <gjs278> I meant jiff
779 2011-05-10 05:41:50 sethsethseth___ has joined
780 2011-05-10 05:41:55 <Ratt> You might be saying HUH, not GUH
781 2011-05-10 05:42:03 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
782 2011-05-10 05:42:13 <gjs278> I sound exactly like banjo from banjokazooie I can assure you I am saying guh
783 2011-05-10 05:42:29 <Ratt> You do know your tongue goes down the back of your throat right?
784 2011-05-10 05:42:33 <gjs278> yeah
785 2011-05-10 05:44:06 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|whatsup Ratt?
786 2011-05-10 05:44:40 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
787 2011-05-10 05:45:02 <Ratt> Oh.. umm, yeah, I'm not seeing any output that indicates there's a problem with the shares. Not that I'm getting any shares into the database though.
788 2011-05-10 05:45:34 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|hmmm
789 2011-05-10 05:45:56 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|but yeah no errors, just no insert to db.
790 2011-05-10 05:46:17 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|trying to make a manual entry at the function my_sharelog.
791 2011-05-10 05:48:31 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
792 2011-05-10 05:48:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123043 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1948 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 4 hours, 2 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 212569.98226351
793 2011-05-10 05:50:35 <noagendamarket> http://twitter.com/#!/jason
794 2011-05-10 05:51:20 snowdog has joined
795 2011-05-10 05:55:19 nefario has joined
796 2011-05-10 05:57:47 <phantomcircuit> noagendamarket, plz2tweethim https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
797 2011-05-10 05:58:08 <noagendamarket> ok
798 2011-05-10 06:02:35 <ntosme2> it's pretty obvious when the pool blips because all my gpu fans ramp down lol
799 2011-05-10 06:02:42 sethsethseth___ has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
800 2011-05-10 06:03:30 <jrmithdobbs> um, is there a way to back out a txn that doesn't look like anyone's going to encode in a block?
801 2011-05-10 06:04:07 <sipa> no
802 2011-05-10 06:04:13 <jrmithdobbs> shit
803 2011-05-10 06:04:27 <jrmithdobbs> didn't have a fee set on bitcoind and sent a sub bitcoin txn
804 2011-05-10 06:04:41 <jrmithdobbs> that should probably default to 0.01 if not in conf file
805 2011-05-10 06:04:48 chmod755 has joined
806 2011-05-10 06:04:58 davidg has joined
807 2011-05-10 06:05:18 <sipa> the client will not create a sub-0.01 output without fee
808 2011-05-10 06:05:21 <CIA-30> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * rf5b67ffe1db8 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/GPG/ (plugin.py test.py): GPG: for eauth/eregister, add linefeed to the encrypted string http://tinyurl.com/3g3djem
809 2011-05-10 06:05:27 <CIA-30> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik * r8c153571b6b9 pushpool/db-mysql.c: db-mysql: provide more fine-grained diagnostics upon db failure http://tinyurl.com/3vhsmmv
810 2011-05-10 06:05:32 <jrmithdobbs> i'm watching and will see what will happen
811 2011-05-10 06:05:43 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: didn't use the client. used bitcoind with an rpc call
812 2011-05-10 06:05:59 <sipa> even then
813 2011-05-10 06:06:15 <jrmithdobbs> i'll watch the next few blocks and see if it shows up
814 2011-05-10 06:06:30 <sipa> is it on http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin ?
815 2011-05-10 06:06:48 <jrmithdobbs> it's not showing on blockexplorer yet
816 2011-05-10 06:07:09 dissipate has joined
817 2011-05-10 06:07:09 <doublec> by sub bitcoin I assume you mean somewhere between 0.01 and 0.99?
818 2011-05-10 06:07:16 <doublec> not less than 0.01?
819 2011-05-10 06:07:41 <sipa> ah right
820 2011-05-10 06:07:42 <jrmithdobbs> yes
821 2011-05-10 06:08:10 <jrmithdobbs> ya there's been two blocks since
822 2011-05-10 06:08:11 <jrmithdobbs> hmmm
823 2011-05-10 06:08:12 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
824 2011-05-10 06:08:13 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.99,"low":3.7301,"vol":25942,"buy":4.31,"sell":4.46,"last":4.38}}
825 2011-05-10 06:08:38 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I'm seeing leaking here too
826 2011-05-10 06:08:43 <jrmithdobbs> and i know that bitcoind has pushed it out because: "connections" : 339
827 2011-05-10 06:09:36 alystair has joined
828 2011-05-10 06:09:37 bitcoiner has joined
829 2011-05-10 06:10:24 <jrmithdobbs> should be txn 694ffe8964bed06ba21c4dce22e1b5bb79b6a1952ffadf38815fb0c88312246c
830 2011-05-10 06:11:11 <jrmithdobbs> it's on bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin
831 2011-05-10 06:13:25 <jrmithdobbs> thoughts?
832 2011-05-10 06:16:04 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
833 2011-05-10 06:18:40 sc8nt4u has joined
834 2011-05-10 06:18:56 DavidSJ has quit (Quit: DavidSJ)
835 2011-05-10 06:22:59 Ratt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
836 2011-05-10 06:31:58 dust1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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838 2011-05-10 06:32:48 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
839 2011-05-10 06:33:21 vorlov has joined
840 2011-05-10 06:38:44 LightRider has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
841 2011-05-10 06:38:59 LightRider has joined
842 2011-05-10 06:39:13 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
843 2011-05-10 06:45:33 larsivi has joined
844 2011-05-10 06:51:20 <sipa> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
845 2011-05-10 06:51:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 32856499.8144 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 5 hours, 42 minutes, and 58 seconds
846 2011-05-10 06:52:33 DD- has joined
847 2011-05-10 06:52:53 Netsniper has joined
848 2011-05-10 06:55:18 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
849 2011-05-10 07:00:27 davidg has left ()
850 2011-05-10 07:01:18 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
851 2011-05-10 07:01:38 duosrx has joined
852 2011-05-10 07:02:52 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
853 2011-05-10 07:03:13 duosrx has quit (Client Quit)
854 2011-05-10 07:03:21 LightRider is now known as LightRider|afk
855 2011-05-10 07:03:28 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
856 2011-05-10 07:03:53 chmod755 is now known as chmod700|afk
857 2011-05-10 07:04:58 has joined
858 2011-05-10 07:06:02 peck has joined
859 2011-05-10 07:06:13 AStove has joined
860 2011-05-10 07:06:23 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
861 2011-05-10 07:06:58 lfm has quit (Quit: bye)
862 2011-05-10 07:07:11 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
863 2011-05-10 07:11:09 peck has joined
864 2011-05-10 07:12:27 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
865 2011-05-10 07:13:51 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-240-204-75.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
866 2011-05-10 07:14:10 <topi`_> jrmithdobbs: some days ago, I tried some txs of 0.01 btc and somehow the client put a 0.01 btc txfee on them, although I did not request it. I was also using the rpc interface
867 2011-05-10 07:15:01 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
868 2011-05-10 07:17:31 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|Ratt?
869 2011-05-10 07:17:33 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
870 2011-05-10 07:17:49 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|Made it work...
871 2011-05-10 07:18:06 Netsniper has joined
872 2011-05-10 07:21:24 <jrmithdobbs> topi`_: it eventually went through, took a few blocks
873 2011-05-10 07:21:30 <jrmithdobbs> topi`_: like 8
874 2011-05-10 07:22:18 bk128 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
875 2011-05-10 07:22:37 bk128 has joined
876 2011-05-10 07:23:18 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
877 2011-05-10 07:24:07 zyb has joined
878 2011-05-10 07:24:10 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
879 2011-05-10 07:25:35 has joined
880 2011-05-10 07:26:15 <topi`_> jrmithdobbs: and without a tx fee?
881 2011-05-10 07:26:20 bk128_ has joined
882 2011-05-10 07:26:20 bk128_ has quit (Changing host)
883 2011-05-10 07:26:20 bk128_ has joined
884 2011-05-10 07:26:27 <jrmithdobbs> topi`_: yup
885 2011-05-10 07:26:49 <topi`_> hmmm
886 2011-05-10 07:26:52 npouillard has quit (Quit: leaving)
887 2011-05-10 07:27:05 npouillard has joined
888 2011-05-10 07:27:08 Stellar has joined
889 2011-05-10 07:28:35 FarBeyondDriven has joined
890 2011-05-10 07:28:46 FarBeyondDriven has quit (Client Quit)
891 2011-05-10 07:28:46 <topi`_> has anyone read the "business is programming" article about bitcoin where the author bashes bitcoin on the basis that gold standard can't work?
892 2011-05-10 07:29:02 <topi`_> "Bitcoin removes government control over the economy, which means there is *no* control over the economy"
893 2011-05-10 07:29:09 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
894 2011-05-10 07:29:21 <topi`_> I wonder what's his idea of control... a few semi-intelligent head honchos in a round table at the central bank?
895 2011-05-10 07:29:36 bk128 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
896 2011-05-10 07:29:36 bk128_ is now known as bk128
897 2011-05-10 07:30:00 larsivi has joined
898 2011-05-10 07:30:02 lylat has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
899 2011-05-10 07:32:06 larsivi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
900 2011-05-10 07:34:24 fridge_ is now known as fridge
901 2011-05-10 07:34:25 <Diablo-D3> [03:23:39] <topi`_> "Bitcoin removes government control over the economy, which means there is *no* control over the economy"
902 2011-05-10 07:34:26 <Diablo-D3> uh
903 2011-05-10 07:34:28 <Diablo-D3> lolololol
904 2011-05-10 07:34:31 <Diablo-D3> I dont think so Tim
905 2011-05-10 07:36:27 larsivi has joined
906 2011-05-10 07:37:03 <Diablo-D3> http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/item/22656-powercolor-shows-its-dual-headed-barts-card
907 2011-05-10 07:37:06 <Diablo-D3> that still pisses me off
908 2011-05-10 07:37:19 <jrmithdobbs> why
909 2011-05-10 07:37:25 <Diablo-D3> a single 6970 will rape two 6850s, and I doubt those are full 6850s
910 2011-05-10 07:39:30 _Silverpike_ has joined
911 2011-05-10 07:39:59 Silverpike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
912 2011-05-10 07:40:19 <gjs278> get a 6990 instead
913 2011-05-10 07:40:29 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: you're missing the point here
914 2011-05-10 07:40:35 <Diablo-D3> thats not a sanctioned AMD product
915 2011-05-10 07:40:50 <Diablo-D3> its a solution in search of a problem
916 2011-05-10 07:41:02 <gjs278> needs a higher powerlevel
917 2011-05-10 07:41:22 <jrmithdobbs> nothing to get pissed about tho
918 2011-05-10 07:41:29 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-240-202-245.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
919 2011-05-10 07:41:34 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: yes I do
920 2011-05-10 07:41:40 <Diablo-D3> because people are going to fucking buy these
921 2011-05-10 07:41:49 <jrmithdobbs> so, people buy stupid shit all the time
922 2011-05-10 07:42:07 <underscor> soultcer: so I am
923 2011-05-10 07:42:22 <soultcer> I was here first :P
924 2011-05-10 07:42:23 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: what about that pile of garbage at every gas station checkout?
925 2011-05-10 07:42:32 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: people buying that stuff piss you off too?
926 2011-05-10 07:42:38 <Diablo-D3> yes.
927 2011-05-10 07:42:45 <jrmithdobbs> take a valium ;P
928 2011-05-10 07:43:02 legion050 has joined
929 2011-05-10 07:43:20 <soultcer> Whoa, I have been in this channel for over a year
930 2011-05-10 07:43:24 <Diablo-D3> 6870 = 151w, 2016 gflops
931 2011-05-10 07:43:41 <soultcer> This means that bitcoin is over a year old too :O
932 2011-05-10 07:43:43 <Diablo-D3> 6970 = 250w, 2703 raw gflops
933 2011-05-10 07:43:47 <Diablo-D3> or about 2x the 3D performance.
934 2011-05-10 07:44:21 <JFK911> what if you advertised bitcoin on talk radio like the guys pushing gold? do you think people would put bitcoins in their ira's?
935 2011-05-10 07:45:11 <sipa> i don't think bitcoin is ready for mass promotion
936 2011-05-10 07:45:23 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: seeing as you cant? sure.
937 2011-05-10 07:46:04 <JFK911> why couldn't you put bitcoins in an investment account
938 2011-05-10 07:46:14 <jrmithdobbs> ugh, playing with this node hooked up to the tv was a bad idea
939 2011-05-10 07:46:25 <jrmithdobbs> when fglrx goes crazy the tv can't display shit at all ;P
940 2011-05-10 07:46:45 <Diablo-D3> lolwhat
941 2011-05-10 07:47:00 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: you cant put gold in an investment account either.
942 2011-05-10 07:47:01 <jrmithdobbs> it borked the integrated intel driver with something i did a sec ago
943 2011-05-10 07:47:20 <jrmithdobbs> just got a bunch of weird signal out of range (prly dropped it to 320xwhatever) on the tv and had to reboot, lol
944 2011-05-10 07:47:42 <JFK911> Diablo-D3: why not
945 2011-05-10 07:47:46 <jrmithdobbs> some day i'll buy a monitor
946 2011-05-10 07:47:50 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: because no one accepts those.
947 2011-05-10 07:47:56 <Diablo-D3> it has to be a registered investment implement.
948 2011-05-10 07:48:00 <Diablo-D3> ie, SEC managed.
949 2011-05-10 07:48:07 <JFK911> they are certificates representing gold or something like that
950 2011-05-10 07:48:14 <JFK911> i don't know the technical mechanism for it
951 2011-05-10 07:48:31 <JFK911> if it can be applied to those dumb rocks then it can also be to bitcoins
952 2011-05-10 07:48:48 _ape has joined
953 2011-05-10 07:49:53 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: thats GLD.
954 2011-05-10 07:49:58 <Diablo-D3> which is not gold
955 2011-05-10 07:50:06 <jrmithdobbs> oh fuck me
956 2011-05-10 07:50:12 <Diablo-D3> its shares in a company that holds a supply of gold.
957 2011-05-10 07:50:16 <jrmithdobbs> it's not fglrx fucking up, it's the damned flash drive
958 2011-05-10 07:50:28 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: nice =/
959 2011-05-10 07:50:31 <JFK911> well, thats probably one of many tricks
960 2011-05-10 07:50:46 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: yes, and you would get cruified if you made a company that held btc.
961 2011-05-10 07:50:59 <Diablo-D3> not only that, I do NOT recommend putting individual investments in an IRA
962 2011-05-10 07:51:20 <Diablo-D3> thats a good way of being poor and destitute when you're ready to retire.
963 2011-05-10 07:51:36 <JFK911> i am chinese and i have three children
964 2011-05-10 07:51:40 <JFK911> my retirement is set up
965 2011-05-10 07:51:57 <Diablo-D3> YOUR BLOOD TYPE IS A-, WHY NOT A+
966 2011-05-10 07:52:10 chmod700 is now known as afk!~affilitat@unaffiliated/chmod755|chmod755
967 2011-05-10 07:52:18 <Diablo-D3> YOU GOT 94 IN GYM, GROUNDED FOREVER
968 2011-05-10 07:52:18 <retinal> oh man, I'm so glad I moved away from my asian parents
969 2011-05-10 07:52:36 <Diablo-D3> YOU CANT SEE GIRL.... WHY NO GRANDCHILDREN YET?!
970 2011-05-10 07:52:38 <retinal> rather, I'm so glad I moved away from my asian family
971 2011-05-10 07:52:58 <Diablo-D3> YOU ONLY MAKE $100k YEAR? WHY NOT $1000K!
972 2011-05-10 07:53:12 <retinal> oh man, I can see that one
973 2011-05-10 07:53:13 TD has joined
974 2011-05-10 07:53:30 <JFK911> well if the motivation behind that kind of treatment isn't clear now...
975 2011-05-10 07:53:34 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|anybody knows how you can get the current hashrate in pushpool, or do i need to code it myself?
976 2011-05-10 07:54:04 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: i only use the flash drive when i'm troubleshooting, usually it's netboot, but damn it i just wasted 2 hours
977 2011-05-10 07:54:15 <jrmithdobbs> because it wasn't logging the crap because it couldn't write to the fucking drive
978 2011-05-10 07:54:31 <JFK911> wow profanity
979 2011-05-10 07:54:33 <Diablo-D3> YOU WANT TO BE WRITER? ITS PRONOUNCE WRAWYER
980 2011-05-10 07:54:47 draag has quit (away!~draaglom@78.148.146.140|Read error: Operation timed out)
981 2011-05-10 07:54:49 <jrmithdobbs> i just want to jerry rig this card back in place so i can let the dogs out of their kennels and go to bed, ha
982 2011-05-10 07:55:02 <Diablo-D3> YOU FORGOT TO DO HOMEWORK? WELL I FORGET I HAVE SON!
983 2011-05-10 07:55:13 <retinal> hahaha
984 2011-05-10 07:55:25 <Diablo-D3> YOU GOT A+? YOU JUST GOT RUCKY!
985 2011-05-10 07:56:00 <chmod755> Diablo-D3: sup, dude?
986 2011-05-10 07:56:34 <jrmithdobbs> ok it's not dead, i just need to write to it slower, forget this pny pos is flakey
987 2011-05-10 07:57:03 <Diablo-D3> YOU HAVE NO GIRLFRIEND? WHY YOU SO GAY
988 2011-05-10 07:57:08 * Diablo-D3 cant think of any others
989 2011-05-10 07:57:16 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: are they really that bad?
990 2011-05-10 07:57:23 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: yes, asian parents are fucking nuts
991 2011-05-10 07:57:25 <JFK911> lol
992 2011-05-10 07:57:26 <jrmithdobbs> i've heard horror stories
993 2011-05-10 07:57:26 <retinal> jrmithdobbs: you have no fucking idea.
994 2011-05-10 07:57:38 <Diablo-D3> Im not asian, nor am I friends with asians... AND EVEN I KNOW THIS
995 2011-05-10 07:57:47 <retinal> asian parents and being an only child
996 2011-05-10 07:57:50 <retinal> fml
997 2011-05-10 07:57:51 <Diablo-D3> their assholery is world renowned
998 2011-05-10 07:58:09 <retinal> i'm an adult and they still give me that shit all the time
999 2011-05-10 07:58:18 <retinal> even when I drive hundreds of miles to visit on holidays
1000 2011-05-10 07:58:39 <jrmithdobbs> ya i figured it was just stereotypes
1001 2011-05-10 07:58:54 <Diablo-D3> not all stereotypes are false
1002 2011-05-10 07:59:03 <chmod755> Diablo-D3: lol
1003 2011-05-10 07:59:23 <Diablo-D3> YOU CALL ME BITCH? THEN YOU SON OF BITCH
1004 2011-05-10 07:59:25 coldwind has quit (Changing host)
1005 2011-05-10 07:59:25 coldwind has joined
1006 2011-05-10 07:59:36 <Diablo-D3> SON, YOU CAN BE ANYTHING YOU WANT, DOCTOR OR ENGINEER
1007 2011-05-10 08:00:17 <jrmithdobbs> oh blah no wonder, forgot to put /tmp on tmpfs before running the ati installer, lol
1008 2011-05-10 08:01:48 <_ape> tcatm: i can't reach bitcoincharts for some reason
1009 2011-05-10 08:01:49 <_ape> :X
1010 2011-05-10 08:01:50 <Diablo-D3> seriously
1011 2011-05-10 08:01:55 <Diablo-D3> asian parents scare the shit out of me
1012 2011-05-10 08:02:04 <Diablo-D3> Im glad I like large american tits, and not dfc
1013 2011-05-10 08:02:27 Marcel has joined
1014 2011-05-10 08:02:46 <retinal> voices are my main consideration
1015 2011-05-10 08:02:55 <retinal> I can't stand the voice of a typical american teenage girl
1016 2011-05-10 08:03:01 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1017 2011-05-10 08:03:04 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1018 2011-05-10 08:03:09 <Diablo-D3> dude
1019 2011-05-10 08:03:11 wolfspraul has joined
1020 2011-05-10 08:03:12 <Diablo-D3> fuck young chicks
1021 2011-05-10 08:03:16 <Diablo-D3> just give me a CEO of a company
1022 2011-05-10 08:03:27 topi`_ is now known as topi`
1023 2011-05-10 08:03:32 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,estimate
1024 2011-05-10 08:03:33 <gribble> 223321.68762521
1025 2011-05-10 08:03:34 <Diablo-D3> you know, the hot ones that command attention and can wear one of those female suits very well
1026 2011-05-10 08:03:45 <Diablo-D3> and are usually evil and are the villians of the week
1027 2011-05-10 08:03:45 <chmod755> I like Intel
1028 2011-05-10 08:03:53 <Diablo-D3> you know the kind
1029 2011-05-10 08:03:57 <Diablo-D3> that, I'd hit
1030 2011-05-10 08:04:07 <retinal> you say that, I think M
1031 2011-05-10 08:04:33 <Diablo-D3> wait, the new judy dent M?
1032 2011-05-10 08:04:34 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1033 2011-05-10 08:04:36 <Diablo-D3> nothx
1034 2011-05-10 08:05:13 mologie has joined
1035 2011-05-10 08:06:39 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1036 2011-05-10 08:08:57 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit MagicalTux
1037 2011-05-10 08:09:09 <MagicalTux> ?
1038 2011-05-10 08:09:19 <Diablo-D3> my account does not reflect reality.
1039 2011-05-10 08:09:26 <MagicalTux> ?
1040 2011-05-10 08:09:45 <Diablo-D3> the tally in the upper hand corner does not match the account history
1041 2011-05-10 08:10:00 <MagicalTux> nah
1042 2011-05-10 08:10:06 <MagicalTux> it's cached
1043 2011-05-10 08:10:13 <Diablo-D3> thats lame
1044 2011-05-10 08:10:14 <Diablo-D3> and useless
1045 2011-05-10 08:10:28 <MagicalTux> I had more urgent bugs to fix
1046 2011-05-10 08:10:38 <Diablo-D3> urgent smurgent
1047 2011-05-10 08:10:43 <Diablo-D3> conflicting readouts come first
1048 2011-05-10 08:10:53 <Diablo-D3> first rule of web development
1049 2011-05-10 08:11:27 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: how about some automated us ach ;P
1050 2011-05-10 08:11:48 <MagicalTux> jrmithdobbs, it's planned, but for now I'm pending for docs to open new US bank account
1051 2011-05-10 08:12:49 midnightmagic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1052 2011-05-10 08:12:55 midnightmagic has joined
1053 2011-05-10 08:12:55 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
1054 2011-05-10 08:13:25 midnightmagic has joined
1055 2011-05-10 08:13:25 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
1056 2011-05-10 08:14:25 midnightmagic has joined
1057 2011-05-10 08:14:25 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
1058 2011-05-10 08:14:55 midnightmagic has joined
1059 2011-05-10 08:17:30 <x5x> Diablo-D3, wat's dfc ?
1060 2011-05-10 08:19:02 <retinal> drug free communities
1061 2011-05-10 08:19:24 <x5x> think fc is flat chest wahts the d tho
1062 2011-05-10 08:19:31 <retinal> fine, fine
1063 2011-05-10 08:19:34 <retinal> delicious
1064 2011-05-10 08:19:38 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
1065 2011-05-10 08:19:42 <_ape> sup ArtForz
1066 2011-05-10 08:20:03 <ArtForz> not much
1067 2011-05-10 08:20:16 <_ape> i got my rigs up sans videocards today and setup some rudimentary pxe shit
1068 2011-05-10 08:20:20 <_ape> with tinycorelinux
1069 2011-05-10 08:20:34 <_ape> cant really test it further without a card the driver can talk to, im using some old x650 or something lol
1070 2011-05-10 08:20:43 <ArtForz> haha
1071 2011-05-10 08:20:51 <_ape> got it for 10bux a few years ago to use while i rma'd my main card
1072 2011-05-10 08:20:53 duosrx has joined
1073 2011-05-10 08:21:05 <_ape> 5970 coming tomorrow so i should be able to get it going properly
1074 2011-05-10 08:22:17 legion050 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1075 2011-05-10 08:23:07 snowdog has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1076 2011-05-10 08:23:57 mosi has quit (work!~mos@80.89.82.252|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1077 2011-05-10 08:24:20 mosi has joined
1078 2011-05-10 08:28:40 mos has joined
1079 2011-05-10 08:32:16 mosi has quit (work!~mos@80.89.82.252|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1080 2011-05-10 08:32:50 mos has quit (work!~mos@80.89.82.252|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1081 2011-05-10 08:33:12 mosi has joined
1082 2011-05-10 08:34:46 <jrmithdobbs> ok, everything works when using a non-fucked-up flash drive, lol, goddamn it i just wasted 3 hours of my life
1083 2011-05-10 08:35:32 <jaromil> moin
1084 2011-05-10 08:35:53 <jaromil> jgarzik: re autotools, i understood now and commented on pull req
1085 2011-05-10 08:35:54 <jaromil> 23:54 @<BlueMatt> I thought you did a manual redo of the commit instead of merging
1086 2011-05-10 08:36:03 <jaromil> me too i thought the same when reading "manual merge"
1087 2011-05-10 08:36:19 <jaromil> please next time use something like "partial merge" indicating you are merging only one commit of the two
1088 2011-05-10 08:36:31 <jaromil> manual merge sounds too much like a redo / rebase
1089 2011-05-10 08:37:42 <sipa> jaromil: i believe he called it manual merge because he had to fix a conflict manually
1090 2011-05-10 08:38:14 <sipa> (though i was confused as well, and didn't notice your commit in the history either)
1091 2011-05-10 08:38:35 <jaromil> well i should have looked better in the first place before raising the flag
1092 2011-05-10 08:38:48 <jaromil> but i was just in my pijama
1093 2011-05-10 08:39:35 <jaromil> i wonder what was the conflict, since i've tested the merge in various phases
1094 2011-05-10 08:39:50 <jaromil> gonna look now
1095 2011-05-10 08:39:57 nefario has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1096 2011-05-10 08:42:08 <topi`> jaromil, good morning :)
1097 2011-05-10 08:42:19 <topi`> it looks you're still in your pyjama
1098 2011-05-10 08:42:41 da2ce7 has joined
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1100 2011-05-10 08:42:42 da2ce7 has joined
1101 2011-05-10 08:43:50 mos has joined
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1103 2011-05-10 08:46:24 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
1104 2011-05-10 08:46:58 mosi has quit (work!~mos@80.89.82.252|Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1105 2011-05-10 08:47:12 <jaromil> topi`: i'm in working class clothes (checkered shirt) since 8am man
1106 2011-05-10 08:47:44 <jaromil> also preparing for pixxxel.net overmorgen, u comin? we have a dinner tomorrow with lekernel
1107 2011-05-10 08:48:20 <topi`> what are you going to talk about?
1108 2011-05-10 08:49:02 <BlueMatt> anyone care to comment on wallet encryption and decrypt-at-spend-time vs decrypt-at-launch-time? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/203
1109 2011-05-10 08:49:49 <topi`> BlueMatt: I think the choice should be upon the user. since the user might find it inconvenient to have the password for every spend
1110 2011-05-10 08:50:14 <topi`> or too paranoid to forget the bitcoin client on the background and it doesn't ask for spending
1111 2011-05-10 08:50:49 sethsethseth has joined
1112 2011-05-10 08:51:04 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: spend time messes up bitcoind automation, so I agree with topi`, both should be an option
1113 2011-05-10 08:51:29 <BlueMatt> for fServer, spend time doesnt work, yes that would have to be launch-time
1114 2011-05-10 08:51:33 <BlueMatt> but for gui-only users?
1115 2011-05-10 08:51:52 <jrmithdobbs> sorry, i haven't had a chance to look at it
1116 2011-05-10 08:52:14 <BlueMatt> np, there isnt much to know aside from spend-time vs init-time
1117 2011-05-10 08:52:29 <ArtForz> why wouldnt decrypt at send time work over rpc?
1118 2011-05-10 08:52:44 <BlueMatt> <BlueMatt> for fServer, spend time doesnt work, yes that would have to be launch-time
1119 2011-05-10 08:52:51 <ArtForz> yes, why?
1120 2011-05-10 08:53:05 <BlueMatt> well I suppose you could pass the password via rpc...
1121 2011-05-10 08:53:23 <ArtForz> that'd be the idea
1122 2011-05-10 08:53:25 <BlueMatt> though Im not a big fan of that, but I suppose it could be implemented
1123 2011-05-10 08:53:47 <BlueMatt> kinda defeats the purpose of the password if you have to put it in all your scripts and such
1124 2011-05-10 08:53:50 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: but what about on block gen? aren't there cases where it creates yourself a new address and such?
1125 2011-05-10 08:54:11 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: yea, Im dealing with that
1126 2011-05-10 08:54:17 <BlueMatt> just need to fix it up a bit
1127 2011-05-10 08:54:37 <BlueMatt> the when-to-topup-keypool and such
1128 2011-05-10 08:55:01 <BlueMatt> though for block-gen you dont need to sign a tx, just make one to yourself so you just need keypool
1129 2011-05-10 08:55:56 Incitatus has joined
1130 2011-05-10 08:56:19 <sipa> the only time you need a private key is when you create a transactions, afaik
1131 2011-05-10 08:56:37 <BlueMatt> yes, based on what Ive seen from grep, that is true
1132 2011-05-10 08:57:57 <ArtForz> well, only when you spend one of your outputs, so generation can be done with just grabbing a pubkey from keypool
1133 2011-05-10 08:57:58 <topi`> i'm using aes-256-cbc to encode my wallet.dat, what does BlueMatt's patch use for wallet encoding?
1134 2011-05-10 08:58:11 <sipa> aes-256-cbc
1135 2011-05-10 08:58:20 <topi`> cool
1136 2011-05-10 08:58:56 * sipa thinks the ideal situation would be: encrypt all private keys assymmetrically using a master private key that is stored in wallet.dat, itself symmetrically encrypted using a passphrase
1137 2011-05-10 08:59:05 TheAncientGoat has joined
1138 2011-05-10 08:59:07 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: the problem is topping up keypool requires password (to encrypt new keys) so what if you generate 100 blocks depleting your keypool
1139 2011-05-10 08:59:12 <ArtForz> yep
1140 2011-05-10 08:59:17 <ArtForz> unless you do what sipa just said
1141 2011-05-10 08:59:27 <BlueMatt> I dont see how that helps
1142 2011-05-10 08:59:33 <sipa> that way you can generate new private keys without problems, and encrypt them immediately
1143 2011-05-10 08:59:39 <ArtForz> yep
1144 2011-05-10 08:59:47 <BlueMatt> but then you have the master privkey in memory?
1145 2011-05-10 08:59:50 <sipa> no
1146 2011-05-10 08:59:56 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i agree
1147 2011-05-10 08:59:56 <sipa> you need the master pubkey to encrypt
1148 2011-05-10 08:59:56 <BlueMatt> oh sorry privkey
1149 2011-05-10 09:00:03 <sipa> the master privkey to decrypt
1150 2011-05-10 09:00:07 <BlueMatt> yea
1151 2011-05-10 09:00:09 <BlueMatt> hmmm...
1152 2011-05-10 09:00:12 <sipa> and decrypt is only necessary when signing
1153 2011-05-10 09:00:20 <BlueMatt> yea
1154 2011-05-10 09:00:31 <sipa> and you could either cache the passphrase, or add it to rpc calls, or prompt the user in the gui
1155 2011-05-10 09:01:01 <topi`> rot13 the passphrase in the memory, so the attacker will never find it! :)
1156 2011-05-10 09:01:13 mos has quit (work!~mos@80.89.82.252|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1157 2011-05-10 09:01:17 <ArtForz> rot13 is insecure, use double-rot13
1158 2011-05-10 09:01:26 <topi`> rot-fl :D
1159 2011-05-10 09:01:31 <sipa> that's outdated
1160 2011-05-10 09:01:35 <sipa> use triple rot256
1161 2011-05-10 09:01:36 mosi has joined
1162 2011-05-10 09:03:30 <sipa> can you use use ecies-secp256k1-cbc or something like that in openssl?
1163 2011-05-10 09:05:25 B0g4r7 has joined
1164 2011-05-10 09:07:56 has joined
1165 2011-05-10 09:08:25 <sipa> doesn't seem to be implemented
1166 2011-05-10 09:08:58 has quit (Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-252-20-91.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1167 2011-05-10 09:09:26 has joined
1168 2011-05-10 09:10:34 <sipa> ah well, good old fashioned RSA3072 then?
1169 2011-05-10 09:10:53 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1170 2011-05-10 09:12:22 <BlueMatt> or password-at-init-time
1171 2011-05-10 09:14:41 <sipa> :)
1172 2011-05-10 09:17:24 tcoppi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1173 2011-05-10 09:18:21 nefario has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1174 2011-05-10 09:18:34 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-252-20-91.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
1175 2011-05-10 09:19:03 nefario has joined
1176 2011-05-10 09:20:14 <sipa> hmm, RSA-1024 has 80-bit security, RSA-2048 112-bit security and RSA-3072 128-bit security
1177 2011-05-10 09:20:45 dvide has joined
1178 2011-05-10 09:20:47 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1179 2011-05-10 09:20:49 <ArtForz> sounds roughly itn the right ballpark
1180 2011-05-10 09:20:51 <sipa> using a separate RSA encryption for each private key would however have an overhead of 384 bytes per key...
1181 2011-05-10 09:20:59 <sipa> * 3072-bit
1182 2011-05-10 09:21:23 <BlueMatt> wtf luke-jr your pool payd me 0.00991925?
1183 2011-05-10 09:21:30 <BlueMatt> payed*
1184 2011-05-10 09:21:41 has joined
1185 2011-05-10 09:21:49 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: would you've preferred 0.00991924 ?
1186 2011-05-10 09:21:49 <BlueMatt> now thats gonna be a nightmare to spend
1187 2011-05-10 09:22:06 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: yes, yes I would have
1188 2011-05-10 09:22:31 <ArtForz> sipa: yup, which is why using ECC to encrypt the keys would be nice
1189 2011-05-10 09:22:48 <sipa> indeed
1190 2011-05-10 09:23:15 <sipa> does anyone know the security level and encrypted-data-size of ElGamal?
1191 2011-05-10 09:23:51 <sipa> ECC would be very nice, but then we'll need another dependency, as OpenSSL doesn't seem to provide ECIES
1192 2011-05-10 09:24:04 <sipa> (which i find odd...)
1193 2011-05-10 09:24:40 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1194 2011-05-10 09:25:50 tcoppi has joined
1195 2011-05-10 09:26:12 <gjs278> make it use aes
1196 2011-05-10 09:26:18 <gjs278> my processor has aes acceleration
1197 2011-05-10 09:26:38 <gjs278> I need to be able to decrypt/encrypt at max speed
1198 2011-05-10 09:27:06 <ArtForz> how many 1000 transactions per second are you planning to sign?
1199 2011-05-10 09:27:35 m00p has joined
1200 2011-05-10 09:27:40 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: all of them of course
1201 2011-05-10 09:27:41 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
1202 2011-05-10 09:27:51 <gjs278> I'm going to be hacking wallets obviously
1203 2011-05-10 09:28:02 <gjs278> don't key how long the key lenght is I'm going for it
1204 2011-05-10 09:28:17 <BlueMatt> sipa: openssl provides ECIES AFAICT
1205 2011-05-10 09:28:27 <sipa> BlueMatt: i grepped the source code :p
1206 2011-05-10 09:28:54 <BlueMatt> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1152555/how-to-encrypt-decrypt-a-text-using-openssl-ecc
1207 2011-05-10 09:29:06 <BlueMatt> oh no nvm
1208 2011-05-10 09:29:13 <BlueMatt> that ends up using ECDH
1209 2011-05-10 09:29:17 <sipa> aha
1210 2011-05-10 09:29:21 <sipa> no, that's probably right
1211 2011-05-10 09:29:30 <BlueMatt> but no ECIES
1212 2011-05-10 09:29:43 <sipa> ECIES is just a scheme for combining ECDH with a symmetric cypher
1213 2011-05-10 09:29:58 <BlueMatt> ah, so it would have to be done manually
1214 2011-05-10 09:30:10 <sipa> well, that webpage describes is
1215 2011-05-10 09:30:17 <BlueMatt> fair enough
1216 2011-05-10 09:30:34 <BlueMatt> well, you can always take a look at my patch/pull and implement it ;)
1217 2011-05-10 09:30:50 <xelister> where was the site with expected diff graph?
1218 2011-05-10 09:31:16 <BlueMatt> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/
1219 2011-05-10 09:31:19 <BlueMatt> you mean that?
1220 2011-05-10 09:31:50 Raccoon0 has joined
1221 2011-05-10 09:32:09 <Raccoon0> i have a question about the whole Block Generation theory, in how "difficulty" is adjusted based on block production.
1222 2011-05-10 09:32:16 <Raccoon0> Wouldn't it be possible to game-the-system?
1223 2011-05-10 09:32:25 <eps1> ;;btc,stats
1224 2011-05-10 09:32:25 <gribble> Error: "btc,stats" is not a valid command.
1225 2011-05-10 09:32:41 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,stats
1226 2011-05-10 09:32:46 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123081 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1910 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 3 hours, 7 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 230710.52681983
1227 2011-05-10 09:32:56 <Raccoon0> Say you have access to 100,000 machines generating blocks for a while, which causes the "difficulty" to increase (you're doing so well).
1228 2011-05-10 09:33:09 <Raccoon0> Just shut them off for a few days, wait for the "difficulty" to decrease, then start generating blocks again at the lesser difficulty and higher rate of speed?
1229 2011-05-10 09:33:20 <tcatm> Raccoon0: yes. that happened on testnet
1230 2011-05-10 09:33:21 <Raccoon0> Couldn't someone in theory do this consistantly and rake up lots of BTC
1231 2011-05-10 09:33:33 <eps1> yeah
1232 2011-05-10 09:33:40 <ArtForz> tcatm: except it's still less profitable than just running flat-out
1233 2011-05-10 09:33:45 <Raccoon0> how has this issue been approached and corrected?
1234 2011-05-10 09:33:46 <BlueMatt> no, because their miners are off for a while meaning they lose
1235 2011-05-10 09:33:55 <BlueMatt> in the end, they get less
1236 2011-05-10 09:34:01 <Raccoon0> BlueMatt, not if they own a market majority of mining equipment
1237 2011-05-10 09:34:13 <BlueMatt> which noone does, and yes, still lose
1238 2011-05-10 09:34:17 <ArtForz> Raccoon0: yes, do the math
1239 2011-05-10 09:34:19 <eps1> if that happens we other problems
1240 2011-05-10 09:34:19 <Raccoon0> noone does yet.
1241 2011-05-10 09:34:25 <Raccoon0> just invite 4chan anon
1242 2011-05-10 09:34:34 <Raccoon0> they would make it happen
1243 2011-05-10 09:34:34 <eps1> bring it on
1244 2011-05-10 09:34:50 <eps1> we need people to try and break bitcoin
1245 2011-05-10 09:35:09 <Raccoon0> say we have, dunno, 50000 miners. 4chan could increase that 10 fold
1246 2011-05-10 09:35:12 <ArtForz> it's just basic arithmetic, so 4chan would probably fail at it
1247 2011-05-10 09:35:17 <eps1> haha
1248 2011-05-10 09:35:28 <Raccoon0> hacked boxes, et al
1249 2011-05-10 09:35:51 <BlueMatt> Raccoon0: there have been many posts about bitcoin on 4chan, and from what Ive heard many people in anon are very interested in bitcoin
1250 2011-05-10 09:36:01 <ArtForz> Raccoon0: yes, totally new idea. NOBODY thought of that before.
1251 2011-05-10 09:36:02 <Raccoon0> hell, couldn't someone with a large enough "network" just ""replace"" bitcoin with their own hack version?
1252 2011-05-10 09:36:03 <eps1> at this point i would be surprised if someone hasn't tried to use a botnet for bitcoin generation
1253 2011-05-10 09:36:10 <Raccoon0> since it's decentralized and no trust authority
1254 2011-05-10 09:36:11 <BlueMatt> and still, they would lose money if they stop mining even if they have 99.9% of the network
1255 2011-05-10 09:36:28 <BlueMatt> eps1: mm?
1256 2011-05-10 09:36:35 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: yep
1257 2011-05-10 09:36:46 <fridge> any plans for securing wallet.dat with a passphrase or similar? I know you can do it via other means, but I think an internal system would be a good feature
1258 2011-05-10 09:36:51 <BlueMatt> Raccoon0: only sort of, they could double spend but thats about it
1259 2011-05-10 09:36:56 <ArtForz> pools also kicked one or two smaller cpu botnets
1260 2011-05-10 09:37:02 <BlueMatt> fridge: see my pull req/scroll up
1261 2011-05-10 09:37:04 <B0g4r7> what is their goal isn't to get money but to disript the network?
1262 2011-05-10 09:37:08 <Raccoon0> BlueMatt: even to stop mining for the minimum amount of time it takes for diffuclty to drop significantly?
1263 2011-05-10 09:37:19 <ArtForz> Raccoon0: yes. math. learn it.
1264 2011-05-10 09:37:27 <Raccoon0> i knows maths yes.
1265 2011-05-10 09:37:41 <BlueMatt> Raccoon0: then do a bit of research on the bitcoin wiki
1266 2011-05-10 09:37:52 <Raccoon0> i read the whole damn thing in the past 14 hours.
1267 2011-05-10 09:37:54 <BlueMatt> B0g4r7: then yes, they can
1268 2011-05-10 09:38:05 <BlueMatt> they can double-spend and unconfirm txes
1269 2011-05-10 09:38:17 <Raccoon0> why unconfirm
1270 2011-05-10 09:38:24 <Raccoon0> can't they confirm theirselves?
1271 2011-05-10 09:38:25 <BlueMatt> but never create bitcoins aside from what is available for mining
1272 2011-05-10 09:38:36 <ArtForz> and yet you understood very little, how sad.
1273 2011-05-10 09:38:37 <BlueMatt> Raccoon0: read the wiki, its all there
1274 2011-05-10 09:38:38 <Raccoon0> allow for less-difficult hashes
1275 2011-05-10 09:38:54 <BlueMatt> Raccoon0: ,,(bc,wiki Attacks)
1276 2011-05-10 09:38:55 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses | Apr 23, 2011 ... Bitcoin makes these attacks more difficult by only making an outbound connection to one IP address per /16 (x.y.0.0). ...
1277 2011-05-10 09:38:56 <Raccoon0> BlueMatt, the point here is, anyone can modify the software to their own whim
1278 2011-05-10 09:39:08 <Raccoon0> and blot out any trusted nodes
1279 2011-05-10 09:39:17 <BlueMatt> read the page I just linked you
1280 2011-05-10 09:39:21 <Raccoon0> o.
1281 2011-05-10 09:39:34 <xelister> the obvious bubble is obvious? 4.9 ?
1282 2011-05-10 09:39:34 <fridge> I know I have to look at the code more, but the whole forth interpreter thing worries me
1283 2011-05-10 09:40:03 <jrmithdobbs> fridge: why
1284 2011-05-10 09:40:16 <ArtForz> gotta love kids coming up with the same stupid attacks as everyone else before and thinking they're uber...
1285 2011-05-10 09:40:34 <da2ce7> xelister, until 4.9 is considered cheap when 1btc = $1000
1286 2011-05-10 09:40:39 <xelister> :D
1287 2011-05-10 09:40:49 <fridge> jrmithdobbs: its parseing incoming data that could potentially be used to run arbitrary code??
1288 2011-05-10 09:40:49 <da2ce7> xelister want to trade me 100 btc @ 6c?
1289 2011-05-10 09:40:54 <xelister> that reminds me of the good old times!
1290 2011-05-10 09:41:01 <sipa> fridge: study which kind of operations it supports
1291 2011-05-10 09:41:04 <jaromil> xelister: it is not a bubble if you consider than when it comes down we'll probably have a fairly stable economy to play with, yet more popular and with a higher throughput
1292 2011-05-10 09:41:05 <xelister> wow 0.3! why didnt I seel @0.08
1293 2011-05-10 09:41:08 <ArtForz> fridge: if you find a hole, report it to gavin
1294 2011-05-10 09:41:12 <xelister> wow 0.9! why didnt I seel @0.3
1295 2011-05-10 09:41:14 <jaromil> it is obviously too much now
1296 2011-05-10 09:41:16 <sipa> fridge: and notice the script language isn't even turing complete
1297 2011-05-10 09:41:19 <xelister> wow 2.0! why didnt I seel @0.9
1298 2011-05-10 09:41:23 <sipa> it guarantees termination
1299 2011-05-10 09:41:28 <x5x> ;;help
1300 2011-05-10 09:41:29 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
1301 2011-05-10 09:41:29 <xelister> wow 4! why did I seel @3 (*did)
1302 2011-05-10 09:41:33 <xelister> crazu
1303 2011-05-10 09:41:35 <xelister> craazyyyy
1304 2011-05-10 09:41:38 <xelister> =)
1305 2011-05-10 09:41:38 <Diablo-D3> remind me to pester Keefe later
1306 2011-05-10 09:41:42 <x5x> !facts
1307 2011-05-10 09:41:51 <ArtForz> sipa: and since my attacks on testnet, it also limits operand size and disabled potentially problematic operations ;)
1308 2011-05-10 09:41:53 <x5x> ;;seen green_eggs
1309 2011-05-10 09:41:53 <gribble> green_eggs was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 4 days, 11 hours, 53 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <green_eggs> Anyway, good luck everyone... and long live BTC!
1310 2011-05-10 09:41:54 <jaromil> its a "slashdot effect" :D "forbes effect"
1311 2011-05-10 09:41:54 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: ;;later tell helps
1312 2011-05-10 09:41:57 <xelister> Diablo-D3: I see one problem. that person sitting on 0.5 mil coins (hi Satoshi) he then controlls inflation
1313 2011-05-10 09:42:01 * da2ce7 plans to destrucure out of BTC into OT BTC Credits.
1314 2011-05-10 09:42:02 <jaromil> i've been slashdotted a few times
1315 2011-05-10 09:42:02 <xelister> ^ da2ce7
1316 2011-05-10 09:42:12 <x5x> we gotta get that green_eggs guy back in here, he always knows what the price is gonna be
1317 2011-05-10 09:42:16 <Keefe> sup Diablo-D3?
1318 2011-05-10 09:42:24 <jaromil> after the traffic bubble, things go down to an order of magnitude way higher than where it started
1319 2011-05-10 09:42:28 <jaromil> this will be GOOD for bitcoin
1320 2011-05-10 09:42:35 * da2ce7 was interviewd for agoristradio
1321 2011-05-10 09:42:39 <Diablo-D3> Keefe: you need more mtusd?
1322 2011-05-10 09:42:50 <da2ce7> not up yet.
1323 2011-05-10 09:42:54 <Keefe> sure, i'm low again. pm
1324 2011-05-10 09:43:07 <x5x> will mtgox wire you mtgusd to a bank acct ?
1325 2011-05-10 09:43:17 <Keefe> i think so if you ask
1326 2011-05-10 09:43:18 <Diablo-D3> x5x: yes, but at $800 min
1327 2011-05-10 09:43:26 <Diablo-D3> its easier to use Keefe as an ATM
1328 2011-05-10 09:43:28 <x5x> Diablo-D3, cool tx
1329 2011-05-10 09:43:31 <Keefe> hehe
1330 2011-05-10 09:43:47 <da2ce7> woot Generated 3 coins... gotta love the pool.
1331 2011-05-10 09:44:16 <da2ce7> ArtForz, when is your next-gen hardware coming online?
1332 2011-05-10 09:44:27 <da2ce7> ;;bc,stats
1333 2011-05-10 09:44:29 <ArtForz> it already is
1334 2011-05-10 09:44:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123082 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1909 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 4 hours, 35 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 229273.21833543
1335 2011-05-10 09:44:37 <ArtForz> well, partially
1336 2011-05-10 09:45:17 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1337 2011-05-10 09:45:19 <ArtForz> got the first 6.4ghps of the 2nd batch up
1338 2011-05-10 09:45:46 <da2ce7> yeah, your one is 1Ghash/s @ 20W from memory?
1339 2011-05-10 09:46:20 <ArtForz> err.. no
1340 2011-05-10 09:46:38 <ArtForz> about 24Mh/J at the plug
1341 2011-05-10 09:46:59 <ArtForz> = ~42W/Gh
1342 2011-05-10 09:47:43 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: wait, whats that in Gh/w?
1343 2011-05-10 09:47:58 <Diablo-D3> er mhash/w rather
1344 2011-05-10 09:47:58 <da2ce7> ah, so is gross for all your miners, or just your next gen ones?
1345 2011-05-10 09:48:07 <ArtForz> all
1346 2011-05-10 09:50:18 <da2ce7> the 4.9 value is differnt as there hasn't been such a huge volume with the climb.
1347 2011-05-10 09:50:23 <ArtForz> thanks to the spike in $/hash the GPUs are still obscenely profitable, so they'll stay for a while
1348 2011-05-10 09:51:49 <sipa> ok, using ECIES (with secp256k1) for encrypting the private keys would incur a cost of 65 bytes per key (or 33 when point compression is used)
1349 2011-05-10 09:52:23 <ArtForz> it only makes sense to replace em when $/difficulty drops well below 5e-6
1350 2011-05-10 09:52:58 <sipa> but maybe a higher security level is needed for the public keys (see xkcd 538 for why)?
1351 2011-05-10 09:53:01 <sipa> *private keys
1352 2011-05-10 09:53:48 <ArtForz> = about diff 1M or so at current $/btc
1353 2011-05-10 09:53:53 <sipa> BlueMatt: ^^
1354 2011-05-10 09:54:26 <da2ce7> sipa ECDH is the right one to use imho
1355 2011-05-10 09:54:41 <sipa> ECIES = ECDH + symmetric cipher
1356 2011-05-10 09:55:04 <da2ce7> :)
1357 2011-05-10 09:55:35 FlipPro has joined
1358 2011-05-10 09:55:41 <sipa> so it'd be ecdh-secp256k1 + sha256 + aes-256-cbc
1359 2011-05-10 09:55:46 <FlipPro> Hi all
1360 2011-05-10 09:55:59 <ArtForz> yep
1361 2011-05-10 09:56:05 <ArtForz> hmac-sha256 I think
1362 2011-05-10 09:57:03 <sipa> ArtForz: not
1363 2011-05-10 09:57:17 <sipa> *no
1364 2011-05-10 09:57:20 <FlipPro> u guys think that future bitcoin domains will be priceless?
1365 2011-05-10 09:57:25 <FlipPro> like bitcoinbids.com
1366 2011-05-10 09:57:26 <da2ce7> sipa you using a inderpendant key pair for each bitcoin address?
1367 2011-05-10 09:57:44 <sipa> da2ce7: that's what ECIES specifies
1368 2011-05-10 09:58:28 <ArtForz> sipa: SEC.1 disagrees
1369 2011-05-10 09:58:29 <da2ce7> great! we can do suff like having access groups just by chanig access to the sha256.
1370 2011-05-10 09:58:56 <sipa> ArtForz: there is an (maybe not optional) hmac involved as well
1371 2011-05-10 09:59:02 <da2ce7> luke-jr your pool died again.
1372 2011-05-10 09:59:35 <sipa> ArtForz: but as we can verify the decryption by simply checking whether the decrypted privkey has a matching pubkey, there is no message authentication necessary
1373 2011-05-10 10:00:10 <ArtForz> well, I just don't like combining cryptographic primitives in ways that aren't covered by the spec
1374 2011-05-10 10:00:16 Tarion has joined
1375 2011-05-10 10:00:20 <Tarion> hi guys
1376 2011-05-10 10:00:30 <FlipPro> hey tarion
1377 2011-05-10 10:00:34 <da2ce7> providing you don't use the same private key for encription and signing you should be fine.
1378 2011-05-10 10:00:41 sethsethseth_ has joined
1379 2011-05-10 10:00:52 `2Fast2BCn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1380 2011-05-10 10:00:58 <sipa> ArtForz: i agree, but here the only use for the mac is to verify the private key was the right one
1381 2011-05-10 10:01:14 `2Fast2BCn has joined
1382 2011-05-10 10:01:23 <Tarion> I have an question to the bitcoin source, is there a library (I need only one for windows) that offers all the bitcoin functionality. Or is everything just avalible in the Bitcoin client?
1383 2011-05-10 10:01:36 <sipa> Tarion: unfortunately, no, only the client
1384 2011-05-10 10:01:52 <ArtForz> sipa: hmm, true
1385 2011-05-10 10:02:03 <sipa> but there is still need for a key derivation function
1386 2011-05-10 10:02:06 sethsethseth__ has joined
1387 2011-05-10 10:02:13 <Tarion> hm are there plans for an library? Would be really nice for other devs to create bitcoin apps
1388 2011-05-10 10:02:20 <sipa> ArtForz: and there sha256 (or double sha256 even) could be used
1389 2011-05-10 10:02:25 <acfrazier> I thought there was a java library
1390 2011-05-10 10:02:29 <gjs278> triple
1391 2011-05-10 10:02:33 <gjs278> for extra hashpower
1392 2011-05-10 10:02:36 <sipa> acfrazier: it doesn't implement the full functionality
1393 2011-05-10 10:02:57 <sipa> Tarion: no concrete plans, but a lot of people dream about it :)
1394 2011-05-10 10:03:17 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1395 2011-05-10 10:04:16 <FlipPro> hey sipa i have a noob question real quick, if everyone just starts amping up their rigs to unseen levels, and that speeds up the bitcoin generation, does that basically make the hash harder to slow down the coin production?
1396 2011-05-10 10:04:53 <gjs278> the difficulty
1397 2011-05-10 10:04:55 <gjs278> is always adjusted
1398 2011-05-10 10:04:57 <sipa> after 2016 the retarget will kick in and make block generation harder for everyone, yes
1399 2011-05-10 10:05:00 <gjs278> to bring in the same amount of coins
1400 2011-05-10 10:05:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: is the 65 bytes per key the bytes for the master key, or additional overhead to aes?
1401 2011-05-10 10:05:05 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1402 2011-05-10 10:05:11 <BlueMatt> the master key right?
1403 2011-05-10 10:05:12 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
1404 2011-05-10 10:05:15 <BlueMatt> so shouldnt it be just once?
1405 2011-05-10 10:05:34 <gjs278> but it is possible that someone ramps up the difficulty to over 900000000000 and then quits and everyone cant' beat the difficulty right
1406 2011-05-10 10:05:37 <sipa> BlueMatt: each privkey will be encrypted with its own AES symmetric key
1407 2011-05-10 10:05:42 <BlueMatt> why?
1408 2011-05-10 10:05:44 <FlipPro> The the thought is, that the more people who are out for coins, the more valuable they will trade for ?
1409 2011-05-10 10:05:45 <da2ce7> BlueMatt, per key, I beleve.
1410 2011-05-10 10:05:47 <FlipPro> that makes perfect sense
1411 2011-05-10 10:05:49 <gjs278> because I need aes acceleration put to use
1412 2011-05-10 10:06:19 <BlueMatt> oh, sorry Im stupid
1413 2011-05-10 10:06:22 <sipa> BlueMatt: if the same AES key is used for all, you don't have any separation between decrypting and encrypting
1414 2011-05-10 10:06:23 <BlueMatt> Im thinking about it backwards
1415 2011-05-10 10:06:31 <BlueMatt> yea, sorry
1416 2011-05-10 10:06:33 <sipa> ok
1417 2011-05-10 10:06:42 <da2ce7> BlueMatt, it makes changing passwords real easy. and you can have subkey groups and stuff like that.
1418 2011-05-10 10:06:53 <da2ce7> it is the right way to do it imho.
1419 2011-05-10 10:06:58 <BlueMatt> yea...well someone want to write a struct for it and implement it?
1420 2011-05-10 10:07:10 <FlipPro> 1 more noob question is who controls the generation of the coins? I know this is all p2p, but who shoots out the coins to be decrypted, is there a central server ?
1421 2011-05-10 10:07:19 <sipa> FlipPro: there is no encryption
1422 2011-05-10 10:07:22 <gjs278> luke will do it on the condition tonal is added
1423 2011-05-10 10:07:23 <sipa> FlipPro: there is no central server
1424 2011-05-10 10:07:34 <sipa> FlipPro: and everyone controls the generation
1425 2011-05-10 10:07:37 <gjs278> thats the final offer, take it or leave it
1426 2011-05-10 10:07:52 <BlueMatt> the problem I have, is if each key uses its own asymmetric, you still cant generate keys at will because the privkey has to be encrypted...
1427 2011-05-10 10:08:02 <BlueMatt> hence the master privkey to encrypt everything idea
1428 2011-05-10 10:08:14 <sipa> BlueMatt: no no, wait
1429 2011-05-10 10:08:30 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
1430 2011-05-10 10:08:30 <BlueMatt> oh, damn...still not thinking
1431 2011-05-10 10:08:31 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.99,"low":3.75,"vol":26714,"buy":4.5417,"sell":4.6484,"last":4.541}}
1432 2011-05-10 10:08:39 <BlueMatt> sorry Im too focused on my exam in an hour
1433 2011-05-10 10:08:47 <sipa> do that, first
1434 2011-05-10 10:09:00 <BlueMatt> master privkey -> pubkey -> symmetric keys -> wallet privkeys yea...
1435 2011-05-10 10:09:04 <gjs278> what class
1436 2011-05-10 10:09:08 <BlueMatt> english
1437 2011-05-10 10:09:22 <BlueMatt> some pos commentaries on books I didnt read
1438 2011-05-10 10:09:27 <gjs278> english exams are always awkward
1439 2011-05-10 10:09:32 <BlueMatt> oh well, not like I have to pass anyway
1440 2011-05-10 10:09:33 <gjs278> never know what they will be
1441 2011-05-10 10:09:49 <gjs278> WHO SAID THIS QUOTE zzzzzzzzzzzzz
1442 2011-05-10 10:10:12 FlipPro has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1443 2011-05-10 10:10:42 <gjs278> I had a huge influx of friends staying up until 3 in the morning for some reason, something about exams refused to let people sleep
1444 2011-05-10 10:11:18 <da2ce7> BlueMatt, this way is better becasue it allows you to export a single key encripted.
1445 2011-05-10 10:11:22 <BlueMatt> meh, luckily Im just getting out of hs, and because Im going back to the states for college, my exams literally count for nothing...I can fail all of them and college wont care
1446 2011-05-10 10:11:31 <gjs278> oh nice
1447 2011-05-10 10:11:47 <BlueMatt> all I need is my hs diploma which I get long before exam results come back
1448 2011-05-10 10:11:48 <gjs278> I took a test to get out of english 101
1449 2011-05-10 10:11:55 <gjs278> it was great
1450 2011-05-10 10:12:10 <BlueMatt> na, my college doesnt give credit of IB standard level english :(
1451 2011-05-10 10:12:16 <gjs278> then I quit school because junior colleges are a joke
1452 2011-05-10 10:12:25 <gjs278> and I already had a job
1453 2011-05-10 10:12:33 <BlueMatt> oh well Im already out of compsci 101 from my ap comp sci in sophomore year :)
1454 2011-05-10 10:12:39 <BlueMatt> and ap calc in sophomore year
1455 2011-05-10 10:12:45 <gjs278> I had ap psych and econ
1456 2011-05-10 10:12:56 <gjs278> govt didnt get me high enough
1457 2011-05-10 10:12:56 <da2ce7> fuck econ at uni
1458 2011-05-10 10:13:05 <gjs278> I owned econ
1459 2011-05-10 10:13:05 <BlueMatt> Ill have econ if I do ok on that exam in a couple days
1460 2011-05-10 10:13:14 <gjs278> see the great thing about econ
1461 2011-05-10 10:13:21 <gjs278> is I alrready forgot everything
1462 2011-05-10 10:13:26 <gjs278> except the laffer curve
1463 2011-05-10 10:13:26 <da2ce7> :)
1464 2011-05-10 10:13:38 <gjs278> now high school chemistry
1465 2011-05-10 10:13:40 <gjs278> that is truly gone
1466 2011-05-10 10:13:46 <gjs278> I could not tell you anything from chem
1467 2011-05-10 10:13:54 <BlueMatt> hence why I never bothered with chem
1468 2011-05-10 10:13:59 <da2ce7> is NaCl a salt?
1469 2011-05-10 10:14:06 <BlueMatt> though even phys is pretty worthless
1470 2011-05-10 10:14:07 <gjs278> yes but I think I knew that before
1471 2011-05-10 10:14:12 <gjs278> I didnt take phys
1472 2011-05-10 10:14:22 <gjs278> school hIGHLY RECOMMENDED it but didnt force it on me
1473 2011-05-10 10:14:34 <BlueMatt> but atleast phys is fairly interesting in terms of cool ideas and such
1474 2011-05-10 10:14:38 <gjs278> I got away with 2 yrs science, 2yrs math, 3 yrs english
1475 2011-05-10 10:14:46 <BlueMatt> relativity and all that crap, pretty interesting stuff
1476 2011-05-10 10:14:47 <darkskiez> da2ce7, it is table salt.
1477 2011-05-10 10:14:58 aaa has joined
1478 2011-05-10 10:15:08 * da2ce7 didn't learn anything from his formal scooling.
1479 2011-05-10 10:15:15 <da2ce7> *and still cannot spell
1480 2011-05-10 10:15:15 * BlueMatt neither
1481 2011-05-10 10:15:19 <gjs278> I learned stuff in my formal schooling
1482 2011-05-10 10:15:22 <gjs278> but junior college
1483 2011-05-10 10:15:23 <gjs278> no
1484 2011-05-10 10:15:25 <gjs278> not a thing
1485 2011-05-10 10:15:30 JSharp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1486 2011-05-10 10:15:33 <darkskiez> not even about women and beer?
1487 2011-05-10 10:15:40 <gjs278> junior colleges feature none of those
1488 2011-05-10 10:15:41 <BlueMatt> see ya
1489 2011-05-10 10:15:44 <da2ce7> women at a all boys scool?
1490 2011-05-10 10:15:44 <gjs278> cya
1491 2011-05-10 10:15:49 <BlueMatt> wish me luck ;)
1492 2011-05-10 10:15:52 <gjs278> of course
1493 2011-05-10 10:15:56 <da2ce7> have lot of hot sex.
1494 2011-05-10 10:16:00 <gjs278> at a junior college
1495 2011-05-10 10:16:03 <gjs278> you basically drive there
1496 2011-05-10 10:16:05 <gjs278> you don't live there
1497 2011-05-10 10:16:15 aaa has quit (Client Quit)
1498 2011-05-10 10:16:17 <gjs278> you just go home everyday
1499 2011-05-10 10:16:19 <darkskiez> what a weird culture
1500 2011-05-10 10:16:33 <gjs278> they are really bad colleges though
1501 2011-05-10 10:16:39 <gjs278> you learn nothing especially in computer science
1502 2011-05-10 10:16:43 <gjs278> the entire web development degree
1503 2011-05-10 10:16:50 <gjs278> does not teach you a line of coding in a dynamic language
1504 2011-05-10 10:16:55 <gjs278> and you never step out of dreamweaver
1505 2011-05-10 10:16:58 <tcatm> sipa: ping. yrange on http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-thumbnail.png needs adjustment :)
1506 2011-05-10 10:17:28 <gjs278> if I were to take tcatm and make him the teacher for webdev at a junior college he would be more qualified than any of them
1507 2011-05-10 10:18:06 <gjs278> they're the kind of people who give a webserver class about iis5 on windows 2000
1508 2011-05-10 10:18:07 <darkskiez> is he allowed to work with children? :)
1509 2011-05-10 10:18:15 <da2ce7> lol
1510 2011-05-10 10:18:36 <jrmithdobbs> well, new cooling is a little better
1511 2011-05-10 10:18:57 <da2ce7> tcatm is a python wiz
1512 2011-05-10 10:19:04 <jrmithdobbs> Adapter 0 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Sensor 0: Temperature - 84.50 C
1513 2011-05-10 10:19:04 <jrmithdobbs> Adapter 1 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Sensor 0: Temperature - 76.00 C
1514 2011-05-10 10:19:04 <jrmithdobbs> Adapter 2 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Sensor 0: Temperature - 71.50 C
1515 2011-05-10 10:19:04 <jrmithdobbs> Adapter 3 - ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series Sensor 0: Temperature - 67.50 C
1516 2011-05-10 10:19:12 <gjs278> eh
1517 2011-05-10 10:19:16 <da2ce7> w?
1518 2011-05-10 10:19:23 <darkskiez> i need to make more python stuff to improve my python foo.
1519 2011-05-10 10:19:26 <gjs278> I mean thats somewhat okay
1520 2011-05-10 10:19:28 <jrmithdobbs> that one card isn't mounted yet and is sucking in hot air
1521 2011-05-10 10:19:28 * tcatm first python project ever was bitcoincharts. I learned the language while developing it.
1522 2011-05-10 10:19:38 <jrmithdobbs> and case isn't closed yet
1523 2011-05-10 10:19:44 <gjs278> my case is open
1524 2011-05-10 10:19:58 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: replacing intake fans tomorrow
1525 2011-05-10 10:19:58 <gjs278> my 5970 is 68C right now
1526 2011-05-10 10:20:05 <gjs278> I replaced my intakes with arctic fans
1527 2011-05-10 10:20:06 <jrmithdobbs> i'm also in austin
1528 2011-05-10 10:20:10 <gjs278> because they can daisy chain
1529 2011-05-10 10:20:12 <gjs278> illinois here
1530 2011-05-10 10:20:15 <jrmithdobbs> it was fuckin 98 yesterday
1531 2011-05-10 10:20:34 <jrmithdobbs> so with where that box is sitting right now (way the fuck away from the ac vent) i'm happy with that. ;P
1532 2011-05-10 10:20:59 <gjs278> my ac is the window
1533 2011-05-10 10:21:03 <gjs278> and a fan blowing the night air in
1534 2011-05-10 10:21:07 <gjs278> but during the day the window is shut
1535 2011-05-10 10:21:12 <jrmithdobbs> and it stays within .5 of that on all the cards so good enough
1536 2011-05-10 10:21:16 <lupine_85> don't suppose anyone knows if the distributed hashes calculated / second are reported in the RPC interface, or just the locally-generated hash rate ?
1537 2011-05-10 10:21:28 <jrmithdobbs> just locally
1538 2011-05-10 10:21:29 <gjs278> only if you solo mine I think
1539 2011-05-10 10:21:34 <jrmithdobbs> nope
1540 2011-05-10 10:21:36 <jrmithdobbs> just locally
1541 2011-05-10 10:21:42 JSharp has joined
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1543 2011-05-10 10:21:42 JSharp has joined
1544 2011-05-10 10:21:43 <gjs278> oh ok
1545 2011-05-10 10:21:43 <lupine_85> hrm, is there any way to get the combined total reported ?
1546 2011-05-10 10:21:44 <gjs278> like -gen
1547 2011-05-10 10:21:48 <jrmithdobbs> ya
1548 2011-05-10 10:21:49 <gjs278> a calculator
1549 2011-05-10 10:21:55 <sipa> BlueMatt: my suggestion: use 512-bit ec key as master, and store encrypted privkeys with 32-byte private param only + 512-bit compressed ephemeral key = 97 bytes per privkey
1550 2011-05-10 10:22:00 <lupine_85> reported, not "how do I add the numbers up" :p
1551 2011-05-10 10:22:11 <jrmithdobbs> lupine_85: no, that's on my own personal list of things to fix though
1552 2011-05-10 10:22:18 sc8nt4u has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1553 2011-05-10 10:22:31 <jrmithdobbs> lupine_85: at least to fudge to some extent, miners don't report it back up
1554 2011-05-10 10:22:45 <lupine_85> ah, that'd be the issue then I guess
1555 2011-05-10 10:22:53 Cusipzzz has joined
1556 2011-05-10 10:23:14 <jrmithdobbs> lupine_85: aye, it'll take a new rpc call and patches to miners
1557 2011-05-10 10:25:21 <lupine_85> at least now I know I'm not going slightly insane ;)
1558 2011-05-10 10:25:30 <lupine_85> 3Mhash/sec, "woo"
1559 2011-05-10 10:27:21 <jrmithdobbs> 1.1/node ;P
1560 2011-05-10 10:27:36 midnightmagic has quit (Quit: quit)
1561 2011-05-10 10:27:48 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
1562 2011-05-10 10:28:21 <jrmithdobbs> need to bump the clocks up a bit on thoes but i'll do that tomorrow when i replace the intakes
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1574 2011-05-10 10:30:53 <Diablo-D3> hey guys
1575 2011-05-10 10:30:55 midnightmagic has joined
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1577 2011-05-10 10:30:58 <Diablo-D3> how many CU does a 5850 have
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1584 2011-05-10 10:37:43 <xelister> 42
1585 2011-05-10 10:38:37 PsecretPseudonym has joined
1586 2011-05-10 10:38:40 <manveru> - 84
1587 2011-05-10 10:38:45 <PsecretPseudonym> hi
1588 2011-05-10 10:39:27 <PsecretPseudonym> Anyone know of any scripts available to just use the Mt Gox websocket client and dump an event log into a local log file?
1589 2011-05-10 10:40:16 <jrmithdobbs> erm, wtf, deepbit doesn't validate emails properly
1590 2011-05-10 10:41:17 <manveru> PsecretPseudonym: no, but i could make you one :)
1591 2011-05-10 10:42:04 <PsecretPseudonym> I would be eternally grateful :) and send ya a couple BTC for the effort of course :)
1592 2011-05-10 10:42:39 <PsecretPseudonym> I've been polling the server for some of the data but would feel bad doing that frequently for full depth of book
1593 2011-05-10 10:43:05 <PsecretPseudonym> but websockets terrify me.
1594 2011-05-10 10:43:21 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|how do i calculate my pools hashrate? ( sharecount in the last 30 minutes ^32 divided by timtimeframe ) ? yeah I managed to make my own pool.
1595 2011-05-10 10:43:44 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|hmm
1596 2011-05-10 10:43:46 <manveru> PsecretPseudonym: well, i'd do it in ruby
1597 2011-05-10 10:43:49 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|that didnt come out right.
1598 2011-05-10 10:44:14 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|( sharecount in the last 30 minutes *32 divided by timeframe )
1599 2011-05-10 10:44:26 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|okie irssi is funky today...
1600 2011-05-10 10:44:36 <tcatm> PsecretPseudonym: what kind of data do you need? I keep lots of data from the exchanges in a database
1601 2011-05-10 10:45:39 <manveru> PsecretPseudonym: where is websockets used on mtgox?
1602 2011-05-10 10:45:57 <PsecretPseudonym> tcatm: I'm hoping to get the historical limit orders, cancellations, and executions or at least a frequent snapshot of the order book. Trying to put 'em into a local DB for some visualizations and research
1603 2011-05-10 10:46:30 <manveru> oh, but that's the JSON API, no?
1604 2011-05-10 10:46:41 <manveru> nothing to do with websockets
1605 2011-05-10 10:46:43 RazielZ has joined
1606 2011-05-10 10:46:43 <tcatm> orderbook snapshot is json only
1607 2011-05-10 10:47:10 <PsecretPseudonym> Well i think the limit orders are streaming events
1608 2011-05-10 10:47:26 <PsecretPseudonym> so if they are logged to a table, the book could be replayed pretty well
1609 2011-05-10 10:47:42 <manveru> where do you see them being streamed?
1610 2011-05-10 10:48:08 <PsecretPseudonym> I'll find the forum thread. one moment.
1611 2011-05-10 10:48:21 <PsecretPseudonym> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5855.20
1612 2011-05-10 10:48:26 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: 20% less than 5870 iirc
1613 2011-05-10 10:48:48 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: depending on which card, if it's oc'ed, etc etc between 250-300mhash/s
1614 2011-05-10 10:49:01 <manveru> PsecretPseudonym: ah, cool
1615 2011-05-10 10:49:41 <manveru> PsecretPseudonym: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=30388b24fa6ef650579ed3c470a8afc6&topic=6019
1616 2011-05-10 10:49:44 <PsecretPseudonym> I'd love to be able to set something up with the websocket apit to just stream the events to a database or at least dump them locally to be uploaded by a daemon
1617 2011-05-10 10:49:53 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: naw, just trying to figure out how fail a 5450 is
1618 2011-05-10 10:49:58 <Diablo-D3> apparently, its 15mhash fail
1619 2011-05-10 10:50:05 <jrmithdobbs> aye
1620 2011-05-10 10:50:12 <manveru> oh damn SMF, does it really put the session into the url...
1621 2011-05-10 10:50:23 <manveru> good thing i wasn't logged in :P
1622 2011-05-10 10:50:25 <jrmithdobbs> 5850s are only worth it because everyone put them on sale within the last 2 weeks lol so you can recoup quick
1623 2011-05-10 10:50:56 <jrmithdobbs> anything less is a waste of time ;P
1624 2011-05-10 10:51:23 <PsecretPseudonym> I think the charting program is just trades though :\
1625 2011-05-10 10:51:39 <PsecretPseudonym> really cool looking for sure
1626 2011-05-10 10:52:04 <tcatm> I'm working on historic market depth charts
1627 2011-05-10 10:53:45 <PsecretPseudonym> As is, the IRC feed is of trades is about a 15-20 second lag. still, limit orders for the actual book as they come in would be pure bliss
1628 2011-05-10 10:54:28 <PsecretPseudonym> I'm wondering if any of those websocket client examples can be easily modified to just dump the events into text files locally for processing. Not familiar with the libraries though
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1640 2011-05-10 11:19:06 larsivi has joined
1641 2011-05-10 11:20:12 <acfrazier> for pushpoold, you need a running bitcoin client, right
1642 2011-05-10 11:21:38 TD has joined
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1645 2011-05-10 11:26:02 Raccoon0 is now known as Raccoon
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1650 2011-05-10 11:38:38 gasteve has joined
1651 2011-05-10 11:43:08 <x5x> http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Bangalore/article2001732.ece
1652 2011-05-10 11:44:13 <TD> "Seen as a significant development in the world of digital cash, this open source project was created in 2009 by Satoshi Nakamoto and was formally announced by Google in March 2010. "
1653 2011-05-10 11:44:20 <TD> why are indian newspapers always so inaccurate?
1654 2011-05-10 11:44:36 <x5x> lol
1655 2011-05-10 11:45:03 <TD> fortunately the team already jumped on it in the comments
1656 2011-05-10 11:48:09 <pesco> wow
1657 2011-05-10 11:49:46 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1658 2011-05-10 11:51:20 marlowe has quit (Quit: leaving)
1659 2011-05-10 11:51:43 marlowe has joined
1660 2011-05-10 11:52:49 gdoteof_home has joined
1661 2011-05-10 11:55:29 marlowe has quit (Client Quit)
1662 2011-05-10 11:55:48 marlowe has joined
1663 2011-05-10 11:56:52 marlowe has quit (Client Quit)
1664 2011-05-10 11:57:13 marlowe has joined
1665 2011-05-10 11:58:47 eternal1 has joined
1666 2011-05-10 12:01:03 <Diablo-D3> TD: uh
1667 2011-05-10 12:01:14 <Diablo-D3> for one
1668 2011-05-10 12:01:27 <Diablo-D3> Google HASNT formally announced it
1669 2011-05-10 12:01:30 <Diablo-D3> thats coming later
1670 2011-05-10 12:01:32 <Diablo-D3> ;) ;) ;) ;)
1671 2011-05-10 12:01:55 <Diablo-D3> As of this week, there are 61 lakh BitCoins in circulation
1672 2011-05-10 12:02:01 <Diablo-D3> lakh is 10 thousand
1673 2011-05-10 12:02:05 <Diablo-D3> they're off BY HALF
1674 2011-05-10 12:02:27 <Diablo-D3> oh wait
1675 2011-05-10 12:02:30 <Diablo-D3> they're off by even more
1676 2011-05-10 12:02:38 <Diablo-D3> they're off by half, and then another 50
1677 2011-05-10 12:02:41 <Diablo-D3> er 50x
1678 2011-05-10 12:02:49 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1679 2011-05-10 12:03:39 <JFK911> i thought 10 thousand was a man
1680 2011-05-10 12:03:58 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, its a hundred thousand
1681 2011-05-10 12:04:04 <Diablo-D3> thats still wrong
1682 2011-05-10 12:04:17 <Diablo-D3> ..
1683 2011-05-10 12:04:21 <Diablo-D3> nope thats actually right
1684 2011-05-10 12:04:22 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit
1685 2011-05-10 12:04:28 <Diablo-D3> fucking indians and their queer ass counting systems
1686 2011-05-10 12:05:21 <Diablo-D3> and a crore apparently is 100 lakh
1687 2011-05-10 12:06:33 <Diablo-D3> so 100 100k, or 10 million Rs
1688 2011-05-10 12:07:06 <Diablo-D3> 44.76 INR == 1 USD
1689 2011-05-10 12:07:14 <xelister> lakh ?
1690 2011-05-10 12:07:26 <xelister> what in the gods name are y ou talking about =)
1691 2011-05-10 12:07:36 <jrmithdobbs> some shitty indian newspaper article
1692 2011-05-10 12:07:39 <JFK911> how many shillings in a shekel again?
1693 2011-05-10 12:07:46 <jrmithdobbs> 42
1694 2011-05-10 12:07:54 <Diablo-D3> so according to them, about $22.5k USD
1695 2011-05-10 12:07:58 <Diablo-D3> that sounds... wrong.
1696 2011-05-10 12:08:18 <JFK911> whered you get this information
1697 2011-05-10 12:08:31 <JFK911> a blogger or an irc chatter?
1698 2011-05-10 12:08:35 <Diablo-D3> because if we have 6.1 million coins already, and they're worth $4
1699 2011-05-10 12:08:53 Validus has joined
1700 2011-05-10 12:08:57 <xelister> Diablo-D3: 5 soon
1701 2011-05-10 12:09:04 <Diablo-D3> well lets just say $4 for now
1702 2011-05-10 12:09:07 <Diablo-D3> thats $24 million
1703 2011-05-10 12:09:12 <jrmithdobbs> aye 4 is a good number
1704 2011-05-10 12:09:33 <Diablo-D3> $24 million != 2.3 crore INR
1705 2011-05-10 12:09:43 <jrmithdobbs> almost to the point where dea can't schedule btc as an illegal substance!
1706 2011-05-10 12:09:47 <jrmithdobbs> without congress
1707 2011-05-10 12:10:00 <jrmithdobbs> (100mil/yr)
1708 2011-05-10 12:10:02 <JFK911> $5 is nothing
1709 2011-05-10 12:10:13 <JFK911> to get the same kind of jump we saw earlier this year it must reach $8 or more
1710 2011-05-10 12:10:29 <Diablo-D3> 1 crore = 10 million
1711 2011-05-10 12:10:32 <jrmithdobbs> be happy with 7 from the press.
1712 2011-05-10 12:10:36 <Diablo-D3> oh goddamnit
1713 2011-05-10 12:10:41 <Diablo-D3> FUCKING INDIANS
1714 2011-05-10 12:10:42 <JFK911> i know this because i am a master at penny stocks
1715 2011-05-10 12:10:47 <Diablo-D3> WHY THE FUCK DO THEY DO THAT
1716 2011-05-10 12:10:53 <Diablo-D3> so
1717 2011-05-10 12:10:56 <Diablo-D3> according to them
1718 2011-05-10 12:11:19 <jrmithdobbs> you are a very angry man
1719 2011-05-10 12:11:36 <Diablo-D3> $24 million == 230 million INR
1720 2011-05-10 12:11:36 DukeOfURL has joined
1721 2011-05-10 12:11:40 <Diablo-D3> which is wrong
1722 2011-05-10 12:11:48 <acfrazier> as someone in here once said, diablo takes swearing to a whole new level
1723 2011-05-10 12:11:56 <jrmithdobbs> it's local press, they got to make their currency look like it's not toilet paper
1724 2011-05-10 12:12:02 <jrmithdobbs> don't get your panties in a wad ;P
1725 2011-05-10 12:12:08 <Diablo-D3> its 1056 million INR
1726 2011-05-10 12:12:11 <Diablo-D3> they're 5 times off.
1727 2011-05-10 12:12:19 <JFK911> there is a highly disturbing amount of off topic chat in this #
1728 2011-05-10 12:12:41 <JFK911> < jrmithdobbs> some day i'll buy a monitor
1729 2011-05-10 12:12:49 <JFK911> < jrmithdobbs> so, people buy stupid shit all the time
1730 2011-05-10 12:13:00 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: yeah but
1731 2011-05-10 12:13:03 <Diablo-D3> I caught them in a lie
1732 2011-05-10 12:13:16 <Diablo-D3> 1 crore = 10 million
1733 2011-05-10 12:13:22 <Diablo-D3> 2.3 core = 23 million
1734 2011-05-10 12:13:31 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: ya but if they printed the real numbers it'd look p bad to admit that btc is worth more than india's projected quarterly growth
1735 2011-05-10 12:13:40 <Diablo-D3> 1 USD = 44.76 INR (aka Rs)
1736 2011-05-10 12:13:45 <jrmithdobbs> so obv they're not gonna print that
1737 2011-05-10 12:14:08 <jrmithdobbs> they're p sensitive about their currency being toilet paper
1738 2011-05-10 12:14:14 <Validus> so at 660 mhash, what pool would be most profitable?
1739 2011-05-10 12:14:21 <jrmithdobbs> JFK911: ya and? laptops.
1740 2011-05-10 12:14:21 <Diablo-D3> 123k blocks * 50 = 6.1 million BTC
1741 2011-05-10 12:14:21 <Validus> would slush with a pay per share, or just regular or
1742 2011-05-10 12:14:39 <JFK911> luke-jr's pool
1743 2011-05-10 12:14:44 <JFK911> is pretty elite
1744 2011-05-10 12:14:46 <Diablo-D3> 6 * 4 = 24, thus $24 million USD
1745 2011-05-10 12:14:53 <Validus> i dont care about elite. im asking which is more profitable
1746 2011-05-10 12:15:01 <JFK911> same thing
1747 2011-05-10 12:15:22 <Diablo-D3> $24 million * 44.76 = 1.074 billion INR
1748 2011-05-10 12:15:31 <Diablo-D3> or approximately the value of india.
1749 2011-05-10 12:15:36 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: right.
1750 2011-05-10 12:15:38 <JFK911> you should get 100 or 150 btc a month mining solo, Validus
1751 2011-05-10 12:15:53 <Validus> its not for me. my buddy just got a 6990 for mining. and im trying to help him
1752 2011-05-10 12:16:05 <JFK911> Diablo-D3: So every indian is worth less than one rupee?
1753 2011-05-10 12:16:11 <Diablo-D3> 1.074 / .230 = 4.67 times off.
1754 2011-05-10 12:17:16 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: check your math
1755 2011-05-10 12:17:25 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: india's gdp is ~1.3T usd
1756 2011-05-10 12:17:32 <JFK911> so. journalists are retarded. have you discovered something new here?
1757 2011-05-10 12:17:33 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: no, that was a joke.
1758 2011-05-10 12:17:47 <xelister> oups, typo
1759 2011-05-10 12:17:49 sethsethseth___ has joined
1760 2011-05-10 12:17:58 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: it is higher than their projected quarterly growth, which is just as sad, ha
1761 2011-05-10 12:18:03 <xelister> typo, I executed command to set Radeon FAN to 670%
1762 2011-05-10 12:18:12 <jrmithdobbs> (china stealin it all from 'em)
1763 2011-05-10 12:18:13 <xelister> happy that it didnt executed it
1764 2011-05-10 12:19:19 sethsethseth____ has joined
1765 2011-05-10 12:20:06 <jrmithdobbs> there an easy way to associate physical slot with the adapter id according to ati's tools?
1766 2011-05-10 12:20:15 <Diablo-D3> wait a sec
1767 2011-05-10 12:20:46 sethsethseth__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1768 2011-05-10 12:20:49 <jrmithdobbs> i'm not sure which out of two of them (4 in the box, know it's 1 of 2) it is that's getting overly hot?
1769 2011-05-10 12:21:08 <JFK911> dont you have a thermometer?
1770 2011-05-10 12:21:12 <Diablo-D3> they said 2.3 crore which is 23 million
1771 2011-05-10 12:21:25 <Diablo-D3> oh wait no
1772 2011-05-10 12:21:28 <Diablo-D3> wait yes
1773 2011-05-10 12:21:31 <Diablo-D3> so
1774 2011-05-10 12:21:35 <Diablo-D3> its more than 4.67 times off
1775 2011-05-10 12:21:48 <Diablo-D3> its 46.7 times off.
1776 2011-05-10 12:22:09 <xelister> lolz
1777 2011-05-10 12:22:14 <xelister> oh you indians u so crazy
1778 2011-05-10 12:22:19 sethsethseth___ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1779 2011-05-10 12:22:25 <Diablo-D3> 47.39 times off.
1780 2011-05-10 12:22:35 <xelister> :dontcareface:
1781 2011-05-10 12:22:51 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
1782 2011-05-10 12:22:51 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.99,"low":3.75,"vol":30357,"buy":4.4259,"sell":4.515,"last":4.4512}}
1783 2011-05-10 12:22:53 <xelister> I really miss some unicode glyph for the don't care face.
1784 2011-05-10 12:23:14 mologie has joined
1785 2011-05-10 12:23:24 <Diablo-D3> infact, lets crank it up
1786 2011-05-10 12:23:27 <Diablo-D3> lets do 4.5
1787 2011-05-10 12:23:28 <xelister> Diablo-D3: maybe diff changed betwee mastering and printing lol
1788 2011-05-10 12:23:47 <UukGoblin> MagicalTux, are there US regulations regarding withdrawal of BTC?
1789 2011-05-10 12:23:50 <Diablo-D3> 1228 billion
1790 2011-05-10 12:23:52 <Diablo-D3> er
1791 2011-05-10 12:23:53 <Diablo-D3> yeah
1792 2011-05-10 12:23:57 <Diablo-D3> no 1228 million
1793 2011-05-10 12:23:59 <jrmithdobbs> JFK911: not a surface one
1794 2011-05-10 12:24:15 <JFK911> they are pretty cheap
1795 2011-05-10 12:24:21 <Diablo-D3> 129 crore
1796 2011-05-10 12:24:25 <JFK911> if you are mining bitcoins, you can afford one
1797 2011-05-10 12:24:36 <Diablo-D3> 56 times too small
1798 2011-05-10 12:25:15 <fridge> if it is that complicated, no wonder the poor guy got it wrong
1799 2011-05-10 12:25:32 <Diablo-D3> fridge: no, its the fucking indian math
1800 2011-05-10 12:25:39 <Diablo-D3> crore = 10 million
1801 2011-05-10 12:25:46 <Diablo-D3> this makes no sense
1802 2011-05-10 12:28:24 <Diablo-D3> also, this means approximately almost 2% of their GDP.
1803 2011-05-10 12:29:01 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1804 2011-05-10 12:29:34 bnzdg has joined
1805 2011-05-10 12:29:37 <Diablo-D3> or about a quarter of their projected GDP browth
1806 2011-05-10 12:29:39 <Diablo-D3> *growth
1807 2011-05-10 12:31:18 <Diablo-D3> I have posted a comment, it has gone into moderation
1808 2011-05-10 12:31:25 <Diablo-D3> I doubt I shall ever see it
1809 2011-05-10 12:31:34 <JFK911> you commented on a blog
1810 2011-05-10 12:31:45 <JFK911> and thought about it for an hour even
1811 2011-05-10 12:31:51 <Diablo-D3> not even an hour
1812 2011-05-10 12:32:01 <Diablo-D3> I spent about 20 minutes swearing, so I thought about it for a whole 10 minutes
1813 2011-05-10 12:32:20 <Diablo-D3> JFK911: also, when I publically shame someone, I dont fuck around.
1814 2011-05-10 12:32:34 m00p has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1815 2011-05-10 12:32:48 <JFK911> sure seemed like it ;)
1816 2011-05-10 12:33:58 <jrmithdobbs> JFK911: i could but i figured it out by turning the hot one off and seeing where it cooled down
1817 2011-05-10 12:34:10 <jrmithdobbs> makes sense that adapter 0 would be the end of the pcie chain
1818 2011-05-10 12:34:27 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|need to buy some delta fans...
1819 2011-05-10 12:34:42 <JFK911> you lost bitcoins by doing that, jrmithdobbs !
1820 2011-05-10 12:34:43 <jrmithdobbs> i'm playing with cooling on that node
1821 2011-05-10 12:34:52 <jrmithdobbs> JFK911: i know!
1822 2011-05-10 12:34:57 <jrmithdobbs> it's awful!
1823 2011-05-10 12:38:19 wolfspraul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1824 2011-05-10 12:39:13 xelister has joined
1825 2011-05-10 12:39:16 <xelister> ok Im back
1826 2011-05-10 12:39:20 <xelister> moved the mouse cursor.
1827 2011-05-10 12:39:24 <xelister> THANK YOU ATI.
1828 2011-05-10 12:39:42 <xelister> ati. Don't move your mouse (on 5970) or we will crash your box lol.
1829 2011-05-10 12:39:59 wolfspraul has joined
1830 2011-05-10 12:40:02 <xelister> ArtForz: is there any work around for this madness?
1831 2011-05-10 12:40:07 <UukGoblin> moving mouse is dangerous
1832 2011-05-10 12:40:24 <tcatm> disconnect the mouse
1833 2011-05-10 12:40:36 <xelister> tcatm: Im using this box @ work as desktop often
1834 2011-05-10 12:41:01 <UukGoblin> you know what a 5970 is good as?
1835 2011-05-10 12:41:02 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: ya, don't mine on machines you work on is the workaround
1836 2011-05-10 12:41:03 <UukGoblin> a hand dryer
1837 2011-05-10 12:41:05 <UukGoblin> srsly
1838 2011-05-10 12:41:10 <tcatm> use xinput to disconnect it while miner is running, reattach when miner stops
1839 2011-05-10 12:41:10 <UukGoblin> nice steady warm air
1840 2011-05-10 12:41:41 <alystair> so, anyone have a few hundred ati cards spare? ;O
1841 2011-05-10 12:41:57 <xelister> UukGoblin: indeed
1842 2011-05-10 12:42:12 <xelister> UukGoblin: people do use it as drier for washig
1843 2011-05-10 12:42:15 <xelister> washing clothes
1844 2011-05-10 12:42:16 <xelister> =)
1845 2011-05-10 12:42:20 <UukGoblin> alystair, uhm, I left them in the other trousers
1846 2011-05-10 12:42:42 <UukGoblin> xelister, me too, actually, washing dries up instantly in our mining room
1847 2011-05-10 12:42:58 <Diablo-D3> mwhyahaha
1848 2011-05-10 12:42:58 <alystair> 'mining room'
1849 2011-05-10 12:42:59 <Diablo-D3> you know
1850 2011-05-10 12:43:02 <Diablo-D3> I still find that funny
1851 2011-05-10 12:43:05 <Diablo-D3> 58 times off
1852 2011-05-10 12:43:32 <wumpus> heheh
1853 2011-05-10 12:43:36 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,gen 7350000
1854 2011-05-10 12:43:37 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 7350000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 46.9606603089 BTC per day and 1.95669417954 BTC per hour.
1855 2011-05-10 12:43:44 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,estimate
1856 2011-05-10 12:43:46 <gribble> 218855.55437098
1857 2011-05-10 12:43:50 mosi has quit (work!~mos@80.89.82.252|Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
1858 2011-05-10 12:43:54 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,gen 7350000 218855
1859 2011-05-10 12:43:54 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
1860 2011-05-10 12:44:07 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,gend 7350000 218855
1861 2011-05-10 12:44:07 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 7350000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 218855, is 33.7796193703 BTC per day and 1.40748414043 BTC per hour.
1862 2011-05-10 12:44:09 <alystair> so I have an unusual idea
1863 2011-05-10 12:44:11 <UukGoblin> thieves.
1864 2011-05-10 12:44:42 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1865 2011-05-10 12:45:53 <alystair> instead of giving coints away to folks that decide to burn excess amounts of wattage on something that doesn't produce anything but the coins themselves, can't each machine running bitcoin get an even distribution of new coins in some sort of method? This way no excess cycles are needed by anyone and prevents hording by any one person.
1866 2011-05-10 12:45:57 <wumpus> my mining room is the living room and my girlfriend complains about the noise :P
1867 2011-05-10 12:46:13 <alystair> sort of like how wuala works
1868 2011-05-10 12:46:16 <xelister> wumpus: fuck bitches get money
1869 2011-05-10 12:46:19 <xelister> bros before hoes
1870 2011-05-10 12:46:27 <alystair> except it's for cloud space
1871 2011-05-10 12:46:39 <wumpus> yeah :)
1872 2011-05-10 12:46:50 <wumpus> it's a very useful heater though
1873 2011-05-10 12:47:03 davex__ has joined
1874 2011-05-10 12:47:30 <ArtForz> alystair: yes, and lemme guess, you will decide who will 'fairly' get how much, right?
1875 2011-05-10 12:47:38 <alystair> .... what?
1876 2011-05-10 12:47:52 <alystair> no, 100% equal distribution
1877 2011-05-10 12:48:03 <ArtForz> ahh, communism, yes, that works really well.
1878 2011-05-10 12:48:09 <ArtForz> so... by IP ?
1879 2011-05-10 12:48:11 <alystair> no
1880 2011-05-10 12:48:18 <alystair> that's the issue
1881 2011-05-10 12:48:24 eternal1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1882 2011-05-10 12:48:45 <alystair> communisim directed by a robot cannot become corrupt in a sense... the thing that needs to be done is prevent human intervention :P
1883 2011-05-10 12:48:46 <wumpus> alystair: problem is proof of work
1884 2011-05-10 12:48:46 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: yes lets destroy the entire reward model for getting txns processed. brilliant.
1885 2011-05-10 12:49:10 <wumpus> would be great if you could get the miners to do folding@home instead, but you can't check in that case whether they aren't cheating
1886 2011-05-10 12:49:15 <ArtForz> so, everyone has to register at the Central Authority For Telling Real Humans From Bots(tm)?
1887 2011-05-10 12:49:23 <alystair> no
1888 2011-05-10 12:49:28 <alystair> christ
1889 2011-05-10 12:49:34 <wumpus> wouldn't work, I don't pass the turing test anyway :)
1890 2011-05-10 12:49:40 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: it's a horrible idea, move along
1891 2011-05-10 12:49:47 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: back to econ 101 plz
1892 2011-05-10 12:50:04 <ArtForz> really, if you need a central authority to hand out work and check results... why even bother with a peer2peer setup then?
1893 2011-05-10 12:50:15 <alystair> I didn't even mention a central authority
1894 2011-05-10 12:50:29 <alystair> the rich are stuffing words in my mouth to try and shut down discussion :P
1895 2011-05-10 12:50:29 <wumpus> indeed, he didn't mention that
1896 2011-05-10 12:50:40 <wumpus> you could check each other's results and do each other's work
1897 2011-05-10 12:50:53 <wumpus> then again it's a hard prblem, bitcoin works now
1898 2011-05-10 12:50:56 <ArtForz> that doesn't work
1899 2011-05-10 12:51:08 <ArtForz> you really need a one-way problem thats way easier to check than generate
1900 2011-05-10 12:51:11 <wumpus> heck, 90% of people says bitcoin doesn't work
1901 2011-05-10 12:51:15 <alystair> the thing is that there's no easy way to make sure a single human entity is only running a single bitcoin app
1902 2011-05-10 12:51:26 <wumpus> I don't believe anyone's 'that doesn't work' anymore :)
1903 2011-05-10 12:51:41 <alystair> and the %10 that say it does are the people mining the damn things :)
1904 2011-05-10 12:51:44 <ArtForz> problem is, so far no one found a problem that's one-way enough, doesn't need a central authority to hand out "work units" and actually does anything useful
1905 2011-05-10 12:51:44 <wumpus> think of some crazy idea and just try it
1906 2011-05-10 12:52:00 <UukGoblin> wumpus, 90% of people don't know what they're talking about
1907 2011-05-10 12:52:13 nathan7 has joined
1908 2011-05-10 12:52:19 <nathan7> !help
1909 2011-05-10 12:52:19 <ArtForz> while 10% of people are lying intentionally *fucks*
1910 2011-05-10 12:52:23 <alystair> where's the list of ways someone can actually spend their bitcoin
1911 2011-05-10 12:52:27 <UukGoblin> nathan7! welcome back :-]
1912 2011-05-10 12:52:28 <nathan7> Hmm, how does the estimating thingy work?
1913 2011-05-10 12:52:29 <ArtForz> *ducks* ARGG, *ducks*
1914 2011-05-10 12:52:49 <nathan7> 4700 khash/sec, how do I figure out how long generating a block takes?
1915 2011-05-10 12:52:52 <wumpus> ArtForz: I agree that we don't know such a prblem yet
1916 2011-05-10 12:53:01 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,calc 4700
1917 2011-05-10 12:53:01 <nathan7> Doesn't bitbot have something for that?
1918 2011-05-10 12:53:04 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4700 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 4 years, 29 weeks, 2 days, 1 hour, 1 minute, and 1 second
1919 2011-05-10 12:53:06 <x6763> "communisim directed by a robot cannot become corrupt in a sense" -- it's already corrupted in it's human-determined purpose
1920 2011-05-10 12:53:10 <alystair> nathan7: you'll make 1 block in a year at that rate.
1921 2011-05-10 12:53:12 <alystair> oh, 4 years.
1922 2011-05-10 12:53:12 marlowe has joined
1923 2011-05-10 12:53:20 <alystair> guess you won't make any bitcoins!
1924 2011-05-10 12:53:31 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,gen 4700
1925 2011-05-10 12:53:31 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 4700 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 0.0300292657757 BTC per day and 0.00125121940732 BTC per hour.
1926 2011-05-10 12:53:47 <Diablo-D3> approximately defined as "never"
1927 2011-05-10 12:53:54 <ArtForz> hey, thats over $0.10/day in a pool ;)
1928 2011-05-10 12:54:04 <Diablo-D3> ArtForz: dude
1929 2011-05-10 12:54:09 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: why do you think everyone should get free bitcoins? why is that good even assuming you could work out the technical issues (and you can't)
1930 2011-05-10 12:54:11 <ArtForz> duuuude
1931 2011-05-10 12:54:11 <Diablo-D3> I can feed a black kid in africa for that!
1932 2011-05-10 12:54:13 <wumpus> x6763: if its a robot calling the shots why settle for communism, you can go directly for unification/hive mind
1933 2011-05-10 12:54:29 <nathan7> Diablo-D3: You can't feed the white ones?
1934 2011-05-10 12:54:30 <alystair> computer dictator ship lmao
1935 2011-05-10 12:54:30 <nathan7> Racist.
1936 2011-05-10 12:54:34 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: it's not meant to be free money. it's a currency like any other with exchanges/etc, seriously, go back to econ 101
1937 2011-05-10 12:54:42 <Diablo-D3> nathan7: ever see those commericals, dude?
1938 2011-05-10 12:54:44 <Diablo-D3> its nuts
1939 2011-05-10 12:54:45 <ArtForz> nathan7: we got enough fat and lazy white guys already
1940 2011-05-10 12:54:50 <UukGoblin> alystair, block generation difficulty doesn't only solve the distribution problem, it also solves the double-spending problem, which is way more important.
1941 2011-05-10 12:54:50 <nathan7> q=
1942 2011-05-10 12:54:59 <nathan7> I was telling a friend about bitcoins
1943 2011-05-10 12:55:11 <nathan7> midnightmagic gave me 20 bitcoins once, they're worth like â¬60 now
1944 2011-05-10 12:55:15 <alystair> I wasn't complaining about block generation difficulty
1945 2011-05-10 12:55:20 <wumpus> alystair: I'm pretty sure there will be a day that law is practiced by machines instead of humans... cryptolaw lol
1946 2011-05-10 12:55:26 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: sure sounded like it.
1947 2011-05-10 12:55:33 <Diablo-D3> dude
1948 2011-05-10 12:55:40 <Diablo-D3> there should be a religion of the machines
1949 2011-05-10 12:55:42 <nathan7> I don't even own â¬60 in real-world money
1950 2011-05-10 12:55:58 <Diablo-D3> you dont own money
1951 2011-05-10 12:56:00 <Diablo-D3> you merely rent it
1952 2011-05-10 12:56:06 <ersi> I owe you's
1953 2011-05-10 12:56:20 <eps1> someone has to program these machines, you can't get away from human influence
1954 2011-05-10 12:56:25 * nathan7 nods
1955 2011-05-10 12:56:27 marlowe_ has joined
1956 2011-05-10 12:56:30 <Diablo-D3> until the machines program machines
1957 2011-05-10 12:56:30 WakiMiko_ has joined
1958 2011-05-10 12:56:34 <ArtForz> eps1: no, it's machines all the way down.
1959 2011-05-10 12:56:40 <ArtForz> no wait, that was turtles...
1960 2011-05-10 12:56:44 <eps1> but who programmed the machines to begin with?
1961 2011-05-10 12:56:45 <Diablo-D3> and then we somehow end up with a bunch of robot women mating with human men
1962 2011-05-10 12:56:48 <Diablo-D3> mmmmm robot women
1963 2011-05-10 12:56:58 <ArtForz> eps1: mice, obviously
1964 2011-05-10 12:57:03 <Diablo-D3> god
1965 2011-05-10 12:57:08 <Diablo-D3> but the machine god, not the human god
1966 2011-05-10 12:57:16 <eps1> ok you can't get away from human or mice influence
1967 2011-05-10 12:57:16 <wumpus> eps1: that doesn't matter.. I mean, who started the big bang that brought the universe into existance? That is not important for explaining day to day physics
1968 2011-05-10 12:57:19 <alystair> they are made of meat.
1969 2011-05-10 12:57:25 <alystair> meat created the machines.
1970 2011-05-10 12:57:30 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1971 2011-05-10 12:57:31 <Diablo-D3> talking meat
1972 2011-05-10 12:57:38 <nathan7> Diablo-D3: whatever
1973 2011-05-10 12:57:43 <eps1> my point is that waving your hands and saying it is "fair" because a computer said so is silly
1974 2011-05-10 12:57:43 <wumpus> once you have machines programming machines it's out of control
1975 2011-05-10 12:57:50 <nathan7> Either way, I'll have more of it than I currently have
1976 2011-05-10 12:57:59 <nathan7> I'll *gain* more than I currently have
1977 2011-05-10 12:58:03 <ArtForz> eps1: but, but, but, the computer said so!!1!one
1978 2011-05-10 12:58:09 <UukGoblin> wumpus, out of /human/ control
1979 2011-05-10 12:58:13 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1980 2011-05-10 12:58:24 ezl has joined
1981 2011-05-10 12:58:25 <wumpus> eps1: I guess so, but as many people define 'fair' as the person with the most guns, I'm not so sure what is worse
1982 2011-05-10 12:58:54 <jrmithdobbs> money is bad mmkay
1983 2011-05-10 12:59:00 <jrmithdobbs> you should all just give me your money
1984 2011-05-10 12:59:03 <eps1> well yeah, i am not saying humans are perfect
1985 2011-05-10 12:59:04 <jrmithdobbs> you will be better people for it
1986 2011-05-10 12:59:06 * nathan7 coughs
1987 2011-05-10 12:59:06 <jrmithdobbs> trust me
1988 2011-05-10 12:59:21 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1989 2011-05-10 12:59:34 <wumpus> eps1: but yeah machines are not perfect either, sure
1990 2011-05-10 12:59:51 <eps1> but the whole zeigeist idea of "we will just have a computer work out how to distribute stuff and there will never be any inequality" annoys me
1991 2011-05-10 13:00:01 <wumpus> so you can hack the law instead of lawyering, wouldn't that be awesome :P
1992 2011-05-10 13:00:11 <nathan7> \o/
1993 2011-05-10 13:00:13 <ArtForz> eps1: agreed
1994 2011-05-10 13:00:21 <nathan7> I could finally bend the law
1995 2011-05-10 13:00:23 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, if you provide me with shelter, food, air, water, experimentation area, internet, a workshop, a chemical lab, a biological lab and storage for the rest of my life, I can give you my money ;-]
1996 2011-05-10 13:00:24 <nathan7> I'd only use it for good
1997 2011-05-10 13:00:37 <ArtForz> central planning by computer works about as well as central planning by comittee... it doesn't
1998 2011-05-10 13:00:50 <wumpus> unless you replace all humans by computers too
1999 2011-05-10 13:00:52 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: no that'd be exchange for goods/services which is the point of money which is the root of all evil, you have to just give it to me on faith man
2000 2011-05-10 13:00:56 <alystair> that's the catch, there is no method for a computer to identify a person as unique in meatspace without another humans intervention :P
2001 2011-05-10 13:00:58 <lupine_85> eh, there'll always be inequalities. the key is taking action to provide a minimum floor below which a person *can't* slip, and (optionally) a ceiling above which people can't rise
2002 2011-05-10 13:00:59 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: it'll work out! promise! ;P
2003 2011-05-10 13:01:03 <eps1> everyone will end up with 0.01% of a strawberry or something
2004 2011-05-10 13:01:03 <UukGoblin> eps1, they don't say there won't be inequality... they claim there won't be scarcity
2005 2011-05-10 13:01:09 <wumpus> as long as we have some form of free will, central planning doesn't work
2006 2011-05-10 13:01:18 <ArtForz> lupine_85: you just described modern social capitalism
2007 2011-05-10 13:01:35 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, I'm sure it would work out for *you* ;-]
2008 2011-05-10 13:01:38 <lupine_85> not exactly
2009 2011-05-10 13:01:46 <ArtForz> errr, exactly
2010 2011-05-10 13:01:48 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: heh
2011 2011-05-10 13:01:58 <UukGoblin> computers should just figure out that we're obsolete and kill us
2012 2011-05-10 13:02:03 <UukGoblin> that's the most even distribution of good
2013 2011-05-10 13:02:06 <UukGoblin> s
2014 2011-05-10 13:02:08 <ArtForz> UukGoblin: now thats a innovative idea.
2015 2011-05-10 13:02:15 <wumpus> yeah, why all the meat anyway
2016 2011-05-10 13:02:17 <ArtForz> yep, just kill everyone equally.
2017 2011-05-10 13:02:21 <eps1> we aren't obsolete yet though
2018 2011-05-10 13:02:25 <lupine_85> the social part of social capitalism is generally predicated on the individual's worth, or assessment against eligibility criteria, rather than being unconditional
2019 2011-05-10 13:02:41 <eps1> without humans all computers would be dead within a fairly short amount of time
2020 2011-05-10 13:02:42 <lupine_85> and I've not seen the cap implemented yet
2021 2011-05-10 13:02:50 <wumpus> eps1: might take a while too
2022 2011-05-10 13:03:10 <UukGoblin> eps1, not if they were smart enough
2023 2011-05-10 13:03:10 <eps1> geologically it would be a short amount of time
2024 2011-05-10 13:03:21 <ArtForz> lupine_85: man "progressive taxation"
2025 2011-05-10 13:03:24 <eps1> UukGoblin: show me an AI
2026 2011-05-10 13:03:28 <wumpus> but it's almost a certainty it will happen eventually
2027 2011-05-10 13:03:35 <lupine_85> ...doesn't place a cap
2028 2011-05-10 13:03:40 <wumpus> unless we nuke each other to the stone age first
2029 2011-05-10 13:03:45 <ArtForz> not a hard cap
2030 2011-05-10 13:03:55 <UukGoblin> eps1, starcraft
2031 2011-05-10 13:03:58 <lupine_85> the first mechanism eliminates absolute poverty, the second eliminates relative poverty
2032 2011-05-10 13:04:11 <alystair> lol
2033 2011-05-10 13:04:15 * alystair watches the cascade
2034 2011-05-10 13:04:16 <lupine_85> if you've got enough resources, you can implement them both
2035 2011-05-10 13:04:34 <ArtForz> *blink*
2036 2011-05-10 13:04:55 JMercha has joined
2037 2011-05-10 13:04:56 <eps1> anyway i posit that scarcity is less important to keep peace than inequality
2038 2011-05-10 13:04:57 <alystair> lupine_85: the problem is that tons of the rich like to stay that way, no?
2039 2011-05-10 13:05:02 <lupine_85> (inequalities of distribution cause just as many social problems as a lack of resources to distribute, oddly enough)
2040 2011-05-10 13:05:16 <eps1> if everyone had the same amount of food people would still fight over shiny things
2041 2011-05-10 13:05:22 <lupine_85> alystair, I wouldn't call that a problem, particularly
2042 2011-05-10 13:05:46 <lupine_85> but when the 3% of people own two thirds of the land, a la UK, that causes real problems
2043 2011-05-10 13:05:56 <alystair> well you just stated the top would have a cap to keep equality?
2044 2011-05-10 13:05:57 <jrmithdobbs> eps1: and if gold was suddenly manufacturable at a gain people would want silver
2045 2011-05-10 13:05:58 Validus has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
2046 2011-05-10 13:06:01 <jrmithdobbs> etc
2047 2011-05-10 13:06:06 <jrmithdobbs> people suck
2048 2011-05-10 13:06:15 <lupine_85> alystair, not to keep equality, but to prevent excessive inequality
2049 2011-05-10 13:06:20 <UukGoblin> eps1, hang on, are you saying that equality is to keep peace or is it /in/equality?
2050 2011-05-10 13:06:29 <UukGoblin> s/is to/is needed to/
2051 2011-05-10 13:06:31 <ArtForz> UukGoblin: yes. I think.
2052 2011-05-10 13:06:37 * alystair likes the concepts that were brought up in the venus project
2053 2011-05-10 13:06:37 <UukGoblin> gah.
2054 2011-05-10 13:06:42 <lupine_85> quite what is "excessive" is a policy decision, obviously :)
2055 2011-05-10 13:06:44 <alystair> but it's tough to do :P
2056 2011-05-10 13:06:55 <lupine_85> shame it's always made by the vested interests
2057 2011-05-10 13:06:59 <ArtForz> pfff, thats simple
2058 2011-05-10 13:07:08 eternal1 has joined
2059 2011-05-10 13:07:16 <UukGoblin> alystair, that's the thing: they juggle concepts that everyone likes, but their solutions are full of shit
2060 2011-05-10 13:07:30 <ArtForz> if someone has more than you do, that's excessive
2061 2011-05-10 13:07:32 <ArtForz> ;)
2062 2011-05-10 13:07:41 <alystair> UukGoblin: they only show the 'end goal' but don't show any process to get there... real shame.
2063 2011-05-10 13:07:49 <lupine_85> there's been some work in the UK towards ensuring that nobody is paid > 10 times the wages of the lowest-paid person, in some organisations
2064 2011-05-10 13:07:53 <davex__> there's no such thing as "excessive inequality"
2065 2011-05-10 13:07:57 <UukGoblin> alystair, exactly
2066 2011-05-10 13:08:17 <ArtForz> lupine_85: which is bullshit
2067 2011-05-10 13:08:28 <lupine_85> *shrug*
2068 2011-05-10 13:08:29 <alystair> UukGoblin: I see bitcoin as a middle ground between a system that doesn't have monitary and one that does...
2069 2011-05-10 13:08:29 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: because if they ever start working out the process they realise it's not possible, if you're involved with a group like that and point this out, you are immediately shunned so that they can keep the groupthink going
2070 2011-05-10 13:08:44 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: see: scientology.
2071 2011-05-10 13:08:46 <UukGoblin> why should a cleaner from indonesia who can't speak english be paid as much as me? :-P
2072 2011-05-10 13:08:55 <alystair> scientology has no basis in reality... lol
2073 2011-05-10 13:09:02 <alystair> well, maybe in a comic book store :)
2074 2011-05-10 13:09:05 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: neither does the venus project.
2075 2011-05-10 13:09:07 <ArtForz> pay caps only work until people start getting paid in shares
2076 2011-05-10 13:09:10 <jrmithdobbs> that was exactly my point.
2077 2011-05-10 13:09:31 <UukGoblin> alystair, zeitgeistians should oppose bitcoin as fuck, it's producing artificial scarcity, thing they're precisely trying to avoid
2078 2011-05-10 13:09:37 <ArtForz> yep
2079 2011-05-10 13:09:53 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: they are identical organizations
2080 2011-05-10 13:09:59 <lupine_85> all depends on what you're optimising for, really. massive income inequalities do cause social problems. eliminating them reduces the efficiency of whatever economy the society is sat in, obviously
2081 2011-05-10 13:10:06 <lupine_85> whether you think it's worth it or not depends on how you value things
2082 2011-05-10 13:10:10 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: ok not identical, i'm sure the venus project guys don't try to sue out of existance and/or kill anyone that leaves
2083 2011-05-10 13:10:13 <alystair> how does the 'processing fee' work exactly?
2084 2011-05-10 13:10:22 <alystair> optional processing fee
2085 2011-05-10 13:10:36 <lupine_85> (minimum wage being a great example of the trade-off)
2086 2011-05-10 13:10:51 <ArtForz> wasn't there a freedomain podcast on "zeitgeist, and why it probably won't work" ?
2087 2011-05-10 13:10:58 <jrmithdobbs> but all minimum wage does is increase inflation
2088 2011-05-10 13:11:06 <jrmithdobbs> and prop the whole thing up so it can start over again
2089 2011-05-10 13:11:22 eternal1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2090 2011-05-10 13:11:28 <lupine_85> you can have a minimum wage twinned to a currency with no inflation
2091 2011-05-10 13:11:36 <lupine_85> what it does is price some jobs out of existence
2092 2011-05-10 13:11:44 <jrmithdobbs> show me this magical currency ;P
2093 2011-05-10 13:11:55 <lupine_85> bitcoin in 10 years? :p
2094 2011-05-10 13:11:56 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2095 2011-05-10 13:12:07 <lupine_85> I'm speaking in the abstract here
2096 2011-05-10 13:12:10 <jrmithdobbs> maybe
2097 2011-05-10 13:12:20 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, there are podcasts about everything not working ;-]
2098 2011-05-10 13:12:21 <jrmithdobbs> lupine_85: no on that point i think you've got something actually
2099 2011-05-10 13:12:22 <lupine_85> it only feeds inflation if you print more money to pay the wages. there's nothing that says you have to do that
2100 2011-05-10 13:12:36 <ArtForz> UukGoblin: yes, but not all by freedomain ;)
2101 2011-05-10 13:12:39 * alystair feels like he's talking to the wind here
2102 2011-05-10 13:12:47 <UukGoblin> I've heard so much about bitcoin not working for instance ;-]
2103 2011-05-10 13:12:48 <lupine_85> minimum wage kills jobs, which is an issue if you're aiming for full employment
2104 2011-05-10 13:12:57 <ArtForz> alystair: woosh
2105 2011-05-10 13:13:07 gavinandresen has joined
2106 2011-05-10 13:13:09 <UukGoblin> ArtForz, well yes, the freedomain guy was openly saying zeitgeist is stupid and even dangerous
2107 2011-05-10 13:13:37 <lupine_85> however, if you're aiming to free up humans so they can be unemployed and trained to do higher-value jobs instead, that aspect of minimum wage is actually a good thing
2108 2011-05-10 13:13:46 <lupine_85> ah well, driving time
2109 2011-05-10 13:13:48 <alystair> all I'm saying is that even if you don't want it, we are working towards a startrek society.
2110 2011-05-10 13:14:10 <UukGoblin> lupine_85, isn't inflation also the case when everyone raises prices collectively, without printing extra money?
2111 2011-05-10 13:14:43 <jrmithdobbs> lupine_85: also increases illicit payment for said jobs, usually to illegals or similar castes
2112 2011-05-10 13:14:49 <eps1> UukGoblin: I am saying inequality causes conflict and equality is neither possible nor desirable, depressing huh?
2113 2011-05-10 13:15:04 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2114 2011-05-10 13:15:07 <jrmithdobbs> lupine_85: so it's a fun double edged sword
2115 2011-05-10 13:15:08 <UukGoblin> eps1, we should just kill ourselves
2116 2011-05-10 13:15:10 <alystair> eps1: got anything to back up the equality statement?
2117 2011-05-10 13:15:17 <alystair> that's interesting
2118 2011-05-10 13:15:25 <alystair> is it a human psychology issue?
2119 2011-05-10 13:15:39 <eps1> alystair: not really
2120 2011-05-10 13:15:45 <wumpus> some inequality is good, but too much causes a very unpleasant society
2121 2011-05-10 13:15:48 <UukGoblin> alystair, equality isn't possible on the atomic level - everyone's different
2122 2011-05-10 13:15:54 <alystair> I know inequality does cause conflict, but equality causing an issue :S
2123 2011-05-10 13:15:57 <UukGoblin> it's also impossible on the genetic level
2124 2011-05-10 13:16:00 <alystair> perhaps bordom?
2125 2011-05-10 13:16:07 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: there are years of psycho studies that back him up if you really want to go in search
2126 2011-05-10 13:16:13 * alystair does so
2127 2011-05-10 13:16:15 <wumpus> people are not equal so there is always some inequality
2128 2011-05-10 13:16:16 <eps1> equality is communism basically
2129 2011-05-10 13:16:18 <lupine_85> (ho hum, partner still getting ready)
2130 2011-05-10 13:16:20 <jrmithdobbs> s/pyscho/psych/ ha
2131 2011-05-10 13:16:21 <UukGoblin> alystair, no two people are equal ;-]
2132 2011-05-10 13:16:33 <lupine_85> people raising prices in a coordinated fashion is a cartel, not inflation, surely?
2133 2011-05-10 13:16:36 <alystair> UukGoblin: there are blue pills for that! ;]
2134 2011-05-10 13:16:58 <UukGoblin> blue pills? the matrixian ones?
2135 2011-05-10 13:17:04 <eps1> look at the prisoners dilemma
2136 2011-05-10 13:17:11 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: but the fun thing is, the studies that rely on responses from the participants all show that people are great and wonderful and would never hurt anyone
2137 2011-05-10 13:17:19 <alystair> lupine_85: so you're saying a market exchange is a cartel?
2138 2011-05-10 13:17:22 <jrmithdobbs> alystair: we know this is a lie.
2139 2011-05-10 13:17:23 <lupine_85> (is that what the minimum wage is? a government-enforced cartel on the part of potential employees?)
2140 2011-05-10 13:17:30 <ArtForz> UukGoblin: well, either that or we'll have inequality and hardons...
2141 2011-05-10 13:17:32 <lupine_85> nope, I'm not
2142 2011-05-10 13:17:35 <lupine_85> *now* timne to drive
2143 2011-05-10 13:17:41 <wumpus> lol
2144 2011-05-10 13:17:52 <jrmithdobbs> lupine_85: ya that's devaluation not inflation
2145 2011-05-10 13:20:36 agricocb has joined
2146 2011-05-10 13:21:05 <gdoteof> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5949759/is-the-blockchain-technology-used-by-bitcoin-the-first-of-its-kind
2147 2011-05-10 13:21:17 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2148 2011-05-10 13:23:13 <ArtForz> well, hash chains in general have been used to notarize stuff for ages
2149 2011-05-10 13:23:42 <yebyen> woohoo! 4.9
2150 2011-05-10 13:23:45 <ArtForz> but hash chains combined with a proof-of-work... nope, havent heard about that before
2151 2011-05-10 13:24:01 <yebyen> i picked the magic number :D
2152 2011-05-10 13:24:11 <alystair> 4.9?
2153 2011-05-10 13:24:31 <yebyen> mtgox peaked last night at 4.99
2154 2011-05-10 13:24:35 <alystair> .....
2155 2011-05-10 13:24:35 <jrmithdobbs> it's a similar concept as chain of custody in law enforcement
2156 2011-05-10 13:24:37 <gdoteof> Last night I was thinking.. man volume sure is low.. i think we are going to slide a bit
2157 2011-05-10 13:24:43 <alystair> this is ridiculous
2158 2011-05-10 13:24:44 <gdoteof> and was getting ready to unload 100btc
2159 2011-05-10 13:24:47 <jrmithdobbs> if you stretch a little bit
2160 2011-05-10 13:24:57 <gdoteof> checked the channel for updates to see what was going through
2161 2011-05-10 13:25:01 <yebyen> alystair: well i lost $4 at the blackjack table last night but its ok :(
2162 2011-05-10 13:25:05 <gdoteof> and it was FLYING up
2163 2011-05-10 13:25:05 <yebyen> i mean :)
2164 2011-05-10 13:25:19 <alystair> there are people with like 60kbtc in their wallets +
2165 2011-05-10 13:25:28 <gdoteof> ya
2166 2011-05-10 13:25:30 <jrmithdobbs> gdoteof: bunch of press in the last 24 hours
2167 2011-05-10 13:25:34 <yebyen> i have not nearly that
2168 2011-05-10 13:25:43 <yebyen> we should work together :x
2169 2011-05-10 13:25:49 * alystair has a mere 100 :)
2170 2011-05-10 13:25:57 <gdoteof> i have like ~250
2171 2011-05-10 13:26:01 * alystair shrugs
2172 2011-05-10 13:26:03 `2Fast2BCn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2173 2011-05-10 13:26:05 <gdoteof> none of it mined
2174 2011-05-10 13:26:09 <yebyen> i have a mere 1.6MH/s
2175 2011-05-10 13:26:12 <yebyen> so same here
2176 2011-05-10 13:26:24 <yebyen> anything i mined, i gambled away early, between 0.1 and 0.9BTC
2177 2011-05-10 13:26:43 <yebyen> this is the 50USD i bought with paypal funds, at 167 now
2178 2011-05-10 13:26:45 <alystair> I'm holding on to it to use it on actual goods/services :|
2179 2011-05-10 13:26:59 <alystair> not some willy nilly exchange pissing contest
2180 2011-05-10 13:27:05 <gdoteof> i've got most of mine selling shirts at iusecoins.com
2181 2011-05-10 13:27:17 <yebyen> alystair: well if i had done that, i would have well over 800usd now
2182 2011-05-10 13:27:17 <gdoteof> which, coincidentally needs another price drop
2183 2011-05-10 13:27:24 BlueMatt_ has joined
2184 2011-05-10 13:27:35 <jrmithdobbs> gdoteof: shouldn't you wait to see if it stabalizes at this rate?
2185 2011-05-10 13:27:43 <UukGoblin> ;;vote for S3052 to produce another update
2186 2011-05-10 13:27:43 <gribble> Error: "vote" is not a valid command.
2187 2011-05-10 13:28:00 <gdoteof> jrmithdobbs: idk.. my partner and i have talked about it a lot
2188 2011-05-10 13:28:07 * alystair would probably sell his IT consulting services for BTC
2189 2011-05-10 13:28:13 <gdoteof> basically no one buys when the exchange rate is higha nd we haven't lowered
2190 2011-05-10 13:28:17 aardvark has joined
2191 2011-05-10 13:28:18 <gdoteof> becausepeople still think in usd
2192 2011-05-10 13:28:18 <alystair> front-end web dev as well
2193 2011-05-10 13:28:32 <yebyen> i would do go for btc, or ferite
2194 2011-05-10 13:28:33 <jrmithdobbs> gdoteof: ah
2195 2011-05-10 13:28:54 TheAncientGoat has joined
2196 2011-05-10 13:29:03 <BlueMatt_> sipa: around?
2197 2011-05-10 13:29:24 lfm has joined
2198 2011-05-10 13:29:28 <gdoteof> jrmithdobbs: it is dangerous though. i am tempted to buy puts
2199 2011-05-10 13:29:42 <gdoteof> no one is really offering though
2200 2011-05-10 13:29:53 <jrmithdobbs> buy what
2201 2011-05-10 13:30:28 <gdoteof> like a 30 day put option at 4.50 or something. so i can sell X number of btc at 4.50 anytime in the next 30 days, regardless of market
2202 2011-05-10 13:30:52 <gdoteof> someone might charge like 5% for the priviledge
2203 2011-05-10 13:31:13 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|Is someone working on ipv6 support?
2204 2011-05-10 13:31:47 <BlueMatt_> Marcel|HSD: not really Luke has a branch that doesn't work
2205 2011-05-10 13:32:01 <BlueMatt_> but he hasn't touched it in a while
2206 2011-05-10 13:32:16 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|k, thx
2207 2011-05-10 13:32:23 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2208 2011-05-10 13:32:33 BlueMatt_ is now known as BlueMatt[mobile]
2209 2011-05-10 13:32:41 eternal1 has joined
2210 2011-05-10 13:32:54 molecular has joined
2211 2011-05-10 13:33:14 marlowe_ is now known as marlowe
2212 2011-05-10 13:33:42 <alystair> "Microsoft's acquisition of Skype for $8.5 billion becomes official"
2213 2011-05-10 13:33:44 <alystair> whoop woop!
2214 2011-05-10 13:33:53 <BlueMatt[mobile]> WTF? link?
2215 2011-05-10 13:34:24 <BlueMatt[mobile]> I heard google+fb plus they were ipo in like 2 days?
2216 2011-05-10 13:34:25 <gdoteof> BlueMatt: like half the links on hackernews
2217 2011-05-10 13:34:31 <wumpus> 8.5 billion, wow, this is really bubble 2.0
2218 2011-05-10 13:34:31 <alystair> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/microsofts-acquisition-of-skype-for-8-5-billion-becomes-offici/
2219 2011-05-10 13:34:42 <BlueMatt[mobile]> damn
2220 2011-05-10 13:34:45 <gdoteof> especially since googlevoice pwnt the shit out of skype
2221 2011-05-10 13:35:21 <BlueMatt[mobile]> well I'm off skype now
2222 2011-05-10 13:35:38 <alystair> I wonder if this means xfire, ventrilo and teamspeak will be sold soon :P
2223 2011-05-10 13:35:45 <BlueMatt[mobile]> oh well anyone want to build a competitor?
2224 2011-05-10 13:35:59 <BlueMatt[mobile]> a good p2p webchat...
2225 2011-05-10 13:36:02 ezl has joined
2226 2011-05-10 13:36:18 <gdoteof> VOIRC
2227 2011-05-10 13:36:25 <yebyen> why not
2228 2011-05-10 13:36:34 <yebyen> except for the web part
2229 2011-05-10 13:36:45 <BlueMatt[mobile]> that might be kinda hard...
2230 2011-05-10 13:36:47 <UukGoblin> a good p2p chat is psyc
2231 2011-05-10 13:36:50 <alystair> voip2p
2232 2011-05-10 13:36:55 <wumpus> why, google voice is good enough
2233 2011-05-10 13:36:59 <sipa> BlueMatt[mobile]: yes
2234 2011-05-10 13:37:00 <yebyen> it should support android and ios, as well as win32/osx/x11
2235 2011-05-10 13:37:08 <gdoteof> google voice is great
2236 2011-05-10 13:37:24 <BlueMatt[mobile]> sipa: sorry I couldn't think straight earlier...
2237 2011-05-10 13:37:33 <sipa> BlueMatt[mobile]: no prob, how did the exam go?
2238 2011-05-10 13:37:39 <UukGoblin> google voice is not p2p enough
2239 2011-05-10 13:37:51 <BlueMatt[mobile]> sipa: raped it:) in any case...
2240 2011-05-10 13:38:19 <sipa> BlueMatt[mobile]: i wrote the idea up in a forum post
2241 2011-05-10 13:38:38 <BlueMatt[mobile]> sipa: I was thinking about the crypto... shouldn't be too hard to do, I'll take a look and see what I can get done tonight
2242 2011-05-10 13:39:25 * BlueMatt[mobile] has blown off studying for half his exams, why start now?
2243 2011-05-10 13:40:23 <sipa> BlueMatt[mobile]: i would suggest modifying CPrivKey to contain a uint256 secretWalletKey, and a vchEphPubKey
2244 2011-05-10 13:40:40 <sipa> or adding something similar, next to CPrivKey
2245 2011-05-10 13:41:25 <sipa> and then a function that generates a vchPubKey + CPrivKey, taking a vchMasterPubKey as argument
2246 2011-05-10 13:41:35 <sipa> instead of manually generating stuff
2247 2011-05-10 13:41:36 <BlueMatt[mobile]> hm... yea sounds about right... still have to do the decryption in crypter
2248 2011-05-10 13:41:47 <BlueMatt[mobile]> yea
2249 2011-05-10 13:41:51 <gavinandresen> sipa: ... but what if an attacker stuffs your wallet.dat with encrypted private keys that they know?
2250 2011-05-10 13:42:03 <lupine_85> well, if luke-jr's branch is stale, I'm happy to work on it (IPv6)
2251 2011-05-10 13:42:05 <gavinandresen> (if you don't require a password to write private keys, you're open to that attack)
2252 2011-05-10 13:42:25 <lupine_85> I've been adding IPv6 to KVM, if you want credentials :p
2253 2011-05-10 13:42:51 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2254 2011-05-10 13:42:53 <sipa> gavinandresen: for that, I'd like to see Hal's opinion about the idea :)
2255 2011-05-10 13:42:53 <BlueMatt[mobile]> lupine_85: just checkout his branch and when you get it working put it up on github:)
2256 2011-05-10 13:43:05 <sipa> gavinandresen: may well be that such a flaw exists
2257 2011-05-10 13:43:40 <BlueMatt[mobile]> I don't see how to block that with sipa's suggestion
2258 2011-05-10 13:43:44 <wumpus> lupine_85: watch out for sybil attacks though, see the remarks at the end of https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=589.0
2259 2011-05-10 13:44:22 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
2260 2011-05-10 13:45:05 <lupine_85> ooer, bitcoin.org uses a self-signed certificate
2261 2011-05-10 13:45:08 <BlueMatt[mobile]> though maybe sign some kind of hash of the wallet when writing
2262 2011-05-10 13:45:13 <lupine_85> do the admins not know about http://cacert.org/ ?
2263 2011-05-10 13:45:58 <BlueMatt[mobile]> lupine_85: yea, but only satoshi has access to bitcoin.org email and he isn't really around much
2264 2011-05-10 13:46:23 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt[mobile], what? doesn't Gavin have access to bitcoin.org?
2265 2011-05-10 13:46:24 <wumpus> lupine_85: yes it does, I've complained about it a few times
2266 2011-05-10 13:46:26 <sipa> gavinandresen, BlueMatt[mobile]: on the wikipedia page of RSA, i read the following:
2267 2011-05-10 13:46:34 <sipa> Because RSA encryption is a deterministic encryption algorithm â i.e., has no random component â an attacker can successfully launch a chosen plaintext attack against the cryptosystem, by encrypting likely plaintexts under the public key and test if they are equal to the ciphertext.
2268 2011-05-10 13:46:48 <sipa> ... ECIES is definitely not deterministic
2269 2011-05-10 13:46:50 <gavinandresen> No, I don't have access to the DNS records for bitcoin.org. They were registered by satoshi
2270 2011-05-10 13:46:51 <BlueMatt[mobile]> gavinandresen have you asked satoshi about bitcoin.org email?
2271 2011-05-10 13:46:58 <gavinandresen> I don't really WANT to have access to those, either....
2272 2011-05-10 13:47:05 <BlueMatt[mobile]> UukGoblin: nope satoshi holds the dns
2273 2011-05-10 13:47:15 <UukGoblin> ah dns
2274 2011-05-10 13:47:18 <sipa> but still, that idea needs to be proof-read by a cryptographer :)
2275 2011-05-10 13:47:22 Tarion has quit ()
2276 2011-05-10 13:47:31 <lfm> sipa thats why you use nonces and timestamps
2277 2011-05-10 13:47:35 <lupine_85> bitcoin probably needs SRV record support, I guess ;)
2278 2011-05-10 13:47:43 <wumpus> you don't really need access to the DNS records, just a mail address @bitcoin.org
2279 2011-05-10 13:47:59 <sipa> lfm: no need, there are 384 bits of random data in the encrypted privkeys already, in my proposal
2280 2011-05-10 13:48:02 bitcoiner has joined
2281 2011-05-10 13:48:19 <lfm> waste of space
2282 2011-05-10 13:48:29 <sipa> it's inevitable
2283 2011-05-10 13:48:33 <sipa> if you want to use ECIES
2284 2011-05-10 13:48:42 primary has joined
2285 2011-05-10 13:49:07 <BlueMatt[mobile]> sipa: the proble is I put my own keys in your keypool and when you spend, I get your coins
2286 2011-05-10 13:49:07 <BlueMatt[mobile]> problem*
2287 2011-05-10 13:49:07 <BlueMatt[mobile]> or are you talking about sign message?
2288 2011-05-10 13:49:40 <lupine_85> wumpus, that is an interesting attack, thanks for pointing me at it. for IPv6, I guess the best solution is to demand different /48s
2289 2011-05-10 13:49:51 <lupine_85> simple CIDR rules = win
2290 2011-05-10 13:50:05 <wumpus> lupine_85: yep that might be enough
2291 2011-05-10 13:50:08 aardvark has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2292 2011-05-10 13:50:10 <sipa> BlueMatt[mobile]: that's interesting
2293 2011-05-10 13:50:15 <wumpus> it's nothing worse than the current /16 heuristic :)
2294 2011-05-10 13:50:22 <lupine_85> well, you can theoretically get more than one /48 from the same ISP
2295 2011-05-10 13:50:28 <lupine_85> but most will tell you to get stuffed
2296 2011-05-10 13:50:44 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
2297 2011-05-10 13:50:44 <lupine_85> so if you want 100 /48s, you'll probably need at least 50 ISPs
2298 2011-05-10 13:51:21 <wumpus> yeah, indeed, you'd need a botnet probably
2299 2011-05-10 13:51:37 <BlueMatt[mobile]> lupine_85: I think there are some more variations on Sybil which need thought out
2300 2011-05-10 13:51:48 Incitatus has joined
2301 2011-05-10 13:51:56 <sipa> BlueMatt[mobile]: if you can write a key to the key pool, that would indeed be possible
2302 2011-05-10 13:52:06 <wumpus> or put boxes everywhere in town that hack into wifi networks and install bitcoin daemons :P
2303 2011-05-10 13:52:22 <BlueMatt[mobile]> sipa: I think that's what Gavin meant
2304 2011-05-10 13:52:36 davex__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2305 2011-05-10 13:52:44 <sipa> yes, i see that now
2306 2011-05-10 13:53:12 <sipa> aha!
2307 2011-05-10 13:53:13 <UukGoblin> gavinandresen, but Satoshi himself is OK, isn't he? I mean he wasn't done in for terrorism or anything? I (and probably others) am trying to figure out why he's been so quiet recently
2308 2011-05-10 13:53:22 <wumpus> but IPv6 is indeed very important if we're pitching it as currency of the future
2309 2011-05-10 13:53:49 <BlueMatt[mobile]> jgarzik: been thinking about how slow bitcoin bootstrapes...what about filling the dns with known good nodes in a db like pens?
2310 2011-05-10 13:53:54 <BlueMatt[mobile]> pdns*
2311 2011-05-10 13:54:16 <BlueMatt[mobile]> UukGoblin: afaanyoneks yes, he's fine
2312 2011-05-10 13:54:19 <wumpus> UukGoblin: he's a crypto researcher.. probably just very busy
2313 2011-05-10 13:54:31 <BlueMatt[mobile]> but there is no way of knowing
2314 2011-05-10 13:54:39 <sipa> BlueMatt[mobile], gavinandresen: what about this: instead of storing the wallet privkey directly, we store a 256-bit random number r, and the actual privkey is sha256(masterPubKey | r)?
2315 2011-05-10 13:54:42 <gavinandresen> UukGoblin: as far as I know Satoshi is fine.
2316 2011-05-10 13:54:46 <lupine_85> the slow part about the initial bootstrap is the sequential nature of the gets. the method used to pull them down is fairly irrelevant as long as that stands
2317 2011-05-10 13:54:48 <primary> he also has a dead man's switch, so you just need to wait for that before worrying
2318 2011-05-10 13:54:49 <UukGoblin> great :-)
2319 2011-05-10 13:54:56 <BlueMatt[mobile]> wumpus: yea probably got bored of bitcoin after so long
2320 2011-05-10 13:55:06 <lupine_85> you just want to have a blob bundled that contains all the state up to $recent_time
2321 2011-05-10 13:55:10 <gavinandresen> sipa: what problem are you trying to solve?
2322 2011-05-10 13:55:11 <wumpus> BlueMatt[mobile]: exactly, he's after the next interesting prject
2323 2011-05-10 13:55:20 <alystair> dead mans switch?
2324 2011-05-10 13:55:27 <BlueMatt[mobile]> gavinandresen: your stuff keypool one
2325 2011-05-10 13:55:35 <sipa> gavinandresen: an attacker won't be able to put his own key in your file anymore
2326 2011-05-10 13:55:56 <sipa> unless he's able to overwrite your master pubkey (and privkey as well, otherwise you'd notice immediately anyway)
2327 2011-05-10 13:56:13 <sipa> pfff i'm stupid
2328 2011-05-10 13:56:16 <lfm> sipa don tlet people write to your wallet
2329 2011-05-10 13:56:17 <sipa> this doesn't work
2330 2011-05-10 13:56:19 <wumpus> ... with a new pseudonym
2331 2011-05-10 13:56:19 <luke-jr> da2ce7: uh, no?
2332 2011-05-10 13:56:25 <gavinandresen> sipa: seems like you're just adding complexity; why not just aes encode private keys with hash of (passph rase+salt) ?
2333 2011-05-10 13:56:37 <da2ce7> na it is back up now
2334 2011-05-10 13:56:46 <da2ce7> went down for like 4min
2335 2011-05-10 13:56:46 <BlueMatt[mobile]> gavinandresen: the mine 100 blocks keypool out problem
2336 2011-05-10 13:56:46 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
2337 2011-05-10 13:56:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 36865135.9573 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 5 hours, 5 minutes, and 40 seconds
2338 2011-05-10 13:56:49 <gavinandresen> sipa: ... and only generate new private keys when user has entered the passphrase
2339 2011-05-10 13:57:19 <sipa> gavinandresen: that's another option
2340 2011-05-10 13:57:39 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt[mobile]: re-using keys wouldn't be the end of the world, if the client doesn't have an opportunity to fill the keypool before it runs into the end of it
2341 2011-05-10 13:57:41 <BlueMatt[mobile]> gavinandresen: that is what my patch currently does, but if I mine a ton it might run out of keypool and I don't want to repeate addresses
2342 2011-05-10 13:58:15 <sipa> exhausting the key pool is dangerous for backups, however
2343 2011-05-10 13:58:24 <BlueMatt[mobile]> well im not sure about this on one side kiss on the other anonymity
2344 2011-05-10 13:58:28 <sipa> not extremely, if you've been careful
2345 2011-05-10 13:58:33 <lfm> BlueMatt[mobile]: the encryption woulkd be optional
2346 2011-05-10 13:58:51 <gavinandresen> sipa: requiring that the user enter their passphrase to backup their wallet seems reasonable.
2347 2011-05-10 13:58:56 <BlueMatt[mobile]> lfm: -nocrypt is already implemented
2348 2011-05-10 13:59:23 <BlueMatt[mobile]> gavinandresen: I'm not a big fan of letting people enter their pass over rpc
2349 2011-05-10 13:59:24 <gavinandresen> (or even maybe strongly encouraging them to enter their passphrase, so the keypool can be refilled before the backup is done)
2350 2011-05-10 13:59:34 <BlueMatt[mobile]> ps aux showing pass isn't good
2351 2011-05-10 13:59:56 <BlueMatt[mobile]> ESP for scripting reasons
2352 2011-05-10 13:59:59 <sipa> you should read passphrases from a file descriptor
2353 2011-05-10 14:00:02 <sipa> not from a command line
2354 2011-05-10 14:00:13 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt[mobile]: command-line client could be taught to do that
2355 2011-05-10 14:00:17 <lfm> BlueMatt[mobile]: use that for unattended miners, then they should send coins to central wallet as soon as theyr generated anyway
2356 2011-05-10 14:00:22 <sipa> that's not the problem though
2357 2011-05-10 14:01:12 <BlueMatt[mobile]> I don't like my wallet password store plaintext in a backup script of conscript or whatever
2358 2011-05-10 14:01:47 <BlueMatt[mobile]> conffile*
2359 2011-05-10 14:02:00 <lfm> BlueMatt[mobile]: back up encrypted wallet?
2360 2011-05-10 14:02:05 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2361 2011-05-10 14:03:16 BlueMatt[mobile] has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2362 2011-05-10 14:03:24 BlueMatt_ has joined
2363 2011-05-10 14:04:48 `2Fast2BCn has joined
2364 2011-05-10 14:04:48 BlueMatt_ is now known as BlueMatt[mobile]
2365 2011-05-10 14:05:12 <BlueMatt[mobile]> lfm: yea when you backup you want a full keypool
2366 2011-05-10 14:07:25 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt[mobile]: so RE: not storing your wallet password in a script file: what sipa said-- there are solutions for reading passwords from file descriptors that talk to a daemon that stores passwords/passphrases... that's all independent of bitcoind
2367 2011-05-10 14:07:47 <gavinandresen> (assuming bitcoind command-line RPC was taught to read args from file descriptors)
2368 2011-05-10 14:08:38 <sipa> agree
2369 2011-05-10 14:09:10 <sipa> if an attacker is assumed to have write access to your bitcoin storage, he can overwrite addr.dat as well and replace the "my mybitcoin address" with his own as well
2370 2011-05-10 14:09:20 diki has joined
2371 2011-05-10 14:09:30 <diki> today i got the CM Hyper 212+
2372 2011-05-10 14:09:39 <diki> installed it...mounting it took 2+ hours
2373 2011-05-10 14:09:46 <gavinandresen> sipa: you mean wallet.dat? (addr.dat contains IP addresses)
2374 2011-05-10 14:09:48 <diki> also got a cut from it
2375 2011-05-10 14:09:57 <sipa> gavinandresen: oh, even better, i assumed that was in addr.dat
2376 2011-05-10 14:10:14 <sipa> gavinandresen: so if an attacker is assumed to have access to wallet.dat, he can do such things too
2377 2011-05-10 14:10:29 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2378 2011-05-10 14:10:34 <sipa> though stuffing the keypool is admittedly much more insidious
2379 2011-05-10 14:10:40 <sipa> as it's not detectable
2380 2011-05-10 14:11:24 <gavinandresen> sipa: good point, rewriting addresses in your address book is a risk I hadn't thought about
2381 2011-05-10 14:11:24 <lfm> sipa all he needs is read access
2382 2011-05-10 14:12:12 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2383 2011-05-10 14:12:20 <sipa> gavinandresen: or simply overwriting the block chain database
2384 2011-05-10 14:12:59 bk128 has joined
2385 2011-05-10 14:13:08 <gavinandresen> sipa: overwriting the block chain seems like a non-risk, unless it was combined with a sybil attack (because you'll get the right chain as soon as you connect to a non-compromised node)
2386 2011-05-10 14:13:42 glassresistor has joined
2387 2011-05-10 14:13:52 <gavinandresen> sipa: if he has write access to all that stuff, he probably can just write a new bitcoin.exe, and then it is game-over anyway.
2388 2011-05-10 14:14:08 soultcer has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2389 2011-05-10 14:14:09 <sipa> indeed
2390 2011-05-10 14:14:55 <da2ce7> if I make a no-fee transaction, and then it gets delayer for ages, If I create annother transaction that depends on the first with a fee, dose that seed up the first?
2391 2011-05-10 14:15:04 <gavinandresen> da2ce7: no
2392 2011-05-10 14:15:17 <sipa> so, i'm not sure whether the "attacker has write access to local system" case is defendable against
2393 2011-05-10 14:16:00 <gavinandresen> sipa: yeah, good point. maybe pk encryption of private keys does make sense, if we assume that "if you can write to wallet.dat we're screwed anyway"
2394 2011-05-10 14:16:31 <da2ce7> gavin, how hard will it be to implment the 'Include fees' double spend?
2395 2011-05-10 14:16:45 <wumpus> sipa: it's not, it's a bit like drm schemes, trying to protect against a local user
2396 2011-05-10 14:17:00 <sipa> wumpus: eventually it's always a lost fight
2397 2011-05-10 14:17:23 <sipa> but you can protect against restricted cases, such as where wallet.dat is stored on a usb stick
2398 2011-05-10 14:17:29 bk128 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2399 2011-05-10 14:17:35 BlueMatt[mobile] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2400 2011-05-10 14:17:36 <sipa> and the attacker has write access to that usb stick
2401 2011-05-10 14:17:37 <da2ce7> wumpus, we need a TPM for that.
2402 2011-05-10 14:17:40 <gavinandresen> da2ce7: I dunno, haven't thought hard about it...
2403 2011-05-10 14:17:47 <wumpus> but protecting against accidental tampering might be useful too
2404 2011-05-10 14:18:08 <wumpus> like disk corruption
2405 2011-05-10 14:18:10 <ArtForz> well, it'S certainly better than now
2406 2011-05-10 14:18:26 <ArtForz> right now just having read access to wallet.dat is enough
2407 2011-05-10 14:18:42 <da2ce7> the idea that sipa was talking abotu with the ecnripted bitcoin keys is good enouth for now.
2408 2011-05-10 14:18:42 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2409 2011-05-10 14:18:46 <wumpus> agreed ArtForz
2410 2011-05-10 14:18:50 <gavinandresen> yup
2411 2011-05-10 14:18:54 <wumpus> it's always better to improve security somewhat
2412 2011-05-10 14:19:25 <ArtForz> = you don't even need a real compromise, just forgetting to set 0700 on ~/.bitcoin is enough for another user on that box to screw you
2413 2011-05-10 14:19:46 <wumpus> doesn't bitcoin do that itself?
2414 2011-05-10 14:19:51 <da2ce7> it will be cool if upon loadup the bitcoin client asks 'how many coins do you want to unlock' you can say 'none' or x ammount.
2415 2011-05-10 14:19:52 <sipa> does bitcoin verify the permissions of wallet.dat?
2416 2011-05-10 14:19:56 <sipa> on unix systems?
2417 2011-05-10 14:20:07 <sipa> if not, it should, and refuse to load a wallet that is world writable
2418 2011-05-10 14:20:14 <ArtForz> wumpus: nowadays it does
2419 2011-05-10 14:20:14 dust1 has joined
2420 2011-05-10 14:20:16 <wumpus> sipa: yes like ssh
2421 2011-05-10 14:20:21 <da2ce7> and the client auto decripts the needed number of private keys to get access to the coins and keeps it in memory.
2422 2011-05-10 14:21:05 <da2ce7> so for small transations you don't need to keep on decripting your wallet, but for large it will re-request the key.
2423 2011-05-10 14:21:44 <wumpus> pretty nice idea, that means that for microtransactions you don't need to reenter your key all the time
2424 2011-05-10 14:22:59 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2425 2011-05-10 14:23:23 danbri has joined
2426 2011-05-10 14:23:23 <da2ce7> it means that you dont have to keep on putting in your password, or worry when you go to the get a drink.
2427 2011-05-10 14:24:39 <cosurgi> ;;seen slush
2428 2011-05-10 14:24:39 <gribble> slush was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 days, 15 hours, 30 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <slush> yes
2429 2011-05-10 14:25:43 <molecular> just noticed I had read-flags for group and others on bitcoin.conf... that alone is very bad, cause it contains the rcppasswd
2430 2011-05-10 14:25:49 <molecular> rpcpasswd
2431 2011-05-10 14:26:00 <primary> da2ce7: You don't operate in a secure compound?
2432 2011-05-10 14:26:17 danbri_ has joined
2433 2011-05-10 14:27:00 * da2ce7 no, I'm just religious at locking my computer.
2434 2011-05-10 14:27:34 <wumpus> molecular: you created bitcoin.conf yourself, so you set those flags
2435 2011-05-10 14:27:46 <molecular> yesyes, it's my fault
2436 2011-05-10 14:27:56 <wumpus> molecular: though if the directory has 700 it doesnt matter
2437 2011-05-10 14:27:57 ByteCoin has joined
2438 2011-05-10 14:28:02 <ArtForz> yep
2439 2011-05-10 14:28:59 <wumpus> da2ce7: if you're too religious about it, you could probably see which keys are in your password by looking what keys are worn off :)
2440 2011-05-10 14:29:10 <molecular> ah, didn't even know that. thought that just disallowed dir listing and if you guessed (easy here) you have access to some 777 in there
2441 2011-05-10 14:29:26 <da2ce7> wumpus, yes. so?
2442 2011-05-10 14:29:42 <da2ce7> the attack space is still large enougth to be safe.
2443 2011-05-10 14:29:49 <ArtForz> wumpus: then lots of peoples fav password is wasd ... ;)
2444 2011-05-10 14:29:53 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2445 2011-05-10 14:29:58 <molecular> lol
2446 2011-05-10 14:30:02 <wumpus> ArtForz: hehe
2447 2011-05-10 14:30:19 <wumpus> a lot of passwords do have wsasd
2448 2011-05-10 14:30:32 plutonic has quit (Quit: plutonic)
2449 2011-05-10 14:30:35 * da2ce7 dosn't remember his passwords.
2450 2011-05-10 14:30:41 <molecular> wumpus, why: people memorize how they get from the artillery to that bush on frontline?
2451 2011-05-10 14:30:47 * da2ce7 dosn't know how to get into his computer
2452 2011-05-10 14:30:52 plutonic has joined
2453 2011-05-10 14:32:15 <ArtForz> up up down down left right left right b a start ?
2454 2011-05-10 14:32:34 <da2ce7> ?
2455 2011-05-10 14:32:52 <da2ce7> ah
2456 2011-05-10 14:33:10 <wumpus> strafing controls
2457 2011-05-10 14:33:11 <molecular> the konami code
2458 2011-05-10 14:33:29 <molecular> a cheat code that appears in many Konami video games
2459 2011-05-10 14:33:35 <da2ce7> :)
2460 2011-05-10 14:33:49 <wumpus> ooh, they use a generic cheat code, that's convenient :)
2461 2011-05-10 14:34:02 <wumpus> I still remember the doom cheat code.. idkfa, iddqd etc :P
2462 2011-05-10 14:34:16 <da2ce7> I think that I should give up on Bitcoin, and play more computer games now I have somuch gaming hardware.
2463 2011-05-10 14:34:35 <molecular> yeah, never saw a gfx-pixel from my 5970... kinda sad actually
2464 2011-05-10 14:34:48 <wumpus> idd has been a long time ago I actually used a GPU for gaming
2465 2011-05-10 14:34:56 <da2ce7> pitty crossfire 5970 sucks.... so much lag.
2466 2011-05-10 14:35:38 bk128 has joined
2467 2011-05-10 14:39:25 zq has joined
2468 2011-05-10 14:40:00 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ok, so probably the best idea is to allow the user to chose, if they want to replenish keypool give an rpc command for that (which requires password)...if they want to backup, warn them about keypool...
2469 2011-05-10 14:40:18 TD has joined
2470 2011-05-10 14:40:24 <BlueMatt> also, getinfo should return keypool size
2471 2011-05-10 14:42:19 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: yup, all good ideas. RPC call params are getting kind of unwieldy, though, I've been tempted to teach the RPC interface to take EITHER positional OR keyword params (JSON-RPC 2.0 allows { key:value, ...} as params, in addition to [ value,value,value] params of JSON-RPC 1.0)
2472 2011-05-10 14:42:44 <jaromil> BlueMatt: see https://github.com/jaromil/bitcoin/commit/34b4f60a33d590fb42556fa3f9b77589141cc672
2473 2011-05-10 14:42:55 <jaromil> i've cleaned up your script to make it readable a bit and put it into contrib
2474 2011-05-10 14:43:08 <jaromil> since it seems there might be a pull of autotools soon
2475 2011-05-10 14:43:10 <BlueMatt> jaromil: still not pullable, it works on ubuntu...thats it
2476 2011-05-10 14:43:23 <gavinandresen> jaromil: thanks for all the autotools/source reorg work, by the way...
2477 2011-05-10 14:43:26 <BlueMatt> maybe not even different version of ubuntu
2478 2011-05-10 14:43:35 <jaromil> gavinandresen: you are welcome, it makes me feel better too
2479 2011-05-10 14:43:37 bitcointrader has joined
2480 2011-05-10 14:43:49 <BitMark> gavinandresen: as part of a tx, can I send 0 bitcoin to an additional address?
2481 2011-05-10 14:44:07 <sipa> BlueMatt: another idea: use an iterated key derivation function (like the one used in jgarzik's scratchoff patch), making a dictionary attack some orders of magnitude harder
2482 2011-05-10 14:44:29 <jaromil> BlueMatt: the path is changing on various systems in fact
2483 2011-05-10 14:44:35 citiz3n has joined
2484 2011-05-10 14:44:41 <sipa> (not sure what that EVK library already does, may need to look that up first)
2485 2011-05-10 14:44:46 <BlueMatt> jaromil: have you looked into other autotools scripts which do properly xcompile? it looks like autotools has native support for mingw but your script is blocking it somehow
2486 2011-05-10 14:44:51 <bitcointrader> Hi is anyone interested in a bitcoin mining contract? 319â¬/800mhps; payment via escrow and 2 day trial
2487 2011-05-10 14:44:58 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i support your argument that a correct autotools should work
2488 2011-05-10 14:45:09 <BlueMatt> bitcointrader: Ill take the 2 day trial
2489 2011-05-10 14:45:12 <jaromil> but i don't have much experience of cross compilation
2490 2011-05-10 14:45:18 <sipa> bitcointrader: try asking in #bitcoin-otc or #bitcoin-mining maybe
2491 2011-05-10 14:45:24 <jaromil> i've looked into it and didn't found a clear way
2492 2011-05-10 14:45:38 <BlueMatt> jaromil: In a bit of googleing, I found a script which claims to support it which has no special mingw stuff in the autotools crap
2493 2011-05-10 14:45:38 <bitcointrader> @ sipa: thanx for the info
2494 2011-05-10 14:45:44 <jaromil> now it depends if we want to pull this and work on it later, still making you able to build as you do
2495 2011-05-10 14:45:54 <jaromil> or we want to keep autotools waiting until this is solved
2496 2011-05-10 14:45:58 <jaromil> gavinandresen: what do you think?
2497 2011-05-10 14:45:58 <BlueMatt> it seems autotools supports it, but something about your particular thing disables it
2498 2011-05-10 14:46:32 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i don't see where it disables it? it actually contemplates the win32 build in configure.ac (where you added the flags)
2499 2011-05-10 14:46:50 <sipa> what is the issue now? mingw32 build using autotools doesn't work yet?
2500 2011-05-10 14:46:56 <BlueMatt> jaromil: http://mingw-cross.sourceforge.net/hello_autotools.html
2501 2011-05-10 14:47:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea
2502 2011-05-10 14:47:03 <jaromil> sipa: yes that is the last issue
2503 2011-05-10 14:47:16 <gavinandresen> jaromil: jgarzik is the autotools expert, all my build system experience is WAAAY out of date.
2504 2011-05-10 14:47:17 <jaromil> then i can rebase the autotools commit into one as agreed
2505 2011-05-10 14:47:17 <BlueMatt> its the final blocker AFAIK, and not really a blocker at that
2506 2011-05-10 14:47:34 <dinox> hmm, trying to complie bitcoind on ubuntu server 10.10, getting this:
2507 2011-05-10 14:47:36 <dinox> net.cpp:8: fatal error: miniupnpc/miniwget.h: File not found
2508 2011-05-10 14:47:36 <sipa> technically, mingw32 support will only be needed when there is a new release
2509 2011-05-10 14:47:42 <jaromil> well it doesn't block you from building on your own, right?
2510 2011-05-10 14:47:46 <sipa> and i believe autotools is useful without it
2511 2011-05-10 14:48:03 dust1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2512 2011-05-10 14:48:07 <BlueMatt> jaromil: see the line "checking whether we are cross compiling... yes" on that link? on your autotools it says ...no
2513 2011-05-10 14:48:19 <jaromil> BlueMatt: 10x for link, i'm going through it
2514 2011-05-10 14:48:25 MadSweeney has joined
2515 2011-05-10 14:48:34 <jaromil> ok i can replicate that
2516 2011-05-10 14:48:50 <jaromil> i miss the win32 libraries compiled, but they come after
2517 2011-05-10 14:49:07 bitcointrader has quit (Client Quit)
2518 2011-05-10 14:49:08 <BlueMatt> I know nothing about autotools, that just came up when I was googleing so...it might not apply
2519 2011-05-10 14:49:21 <sipa> BlueMatt: ignore my remark, EVP_BytesToKey already iterates - good enough :)
2520 2011-05-10 14:50:32 <BlueMatt> oh you were talking about crypter, I thought it was some off-the-wall solution to the other problems with crypter from earlier
2521 2011-05-10 14:50:42 <BlueMatt> (that I didnt understand)
2522 2011-05-10 14:51:59 <jaromil> BlueMatt: do you have anything like *mingw32* in /usr/lib/pkgconfig ?
2523 2011-05-10 14:52:23 allied has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2524 2011-05-10 14:54:07 TD has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2525 2011-05-10 14:54:07 <sipa> BlueMatt: the idea is that searching the 256-bit AES keyspace is impossible to do, but searching a passphrase space may be possible using a dictionary attack, so the trick is to make the step from passphrase to key artificially slow, as the attacker will need to do that for each passphrase he tries
2526 2011-05-10 14:54:16 TD has joined
2527 2011-05-10 14:54:18 gpurig has joined
2528 2011-05-10 14:55:11 <gpurig> where can you find the other channels (mining etc)?
2529 2011-05-10 14:55:20 <sipa> #bitcoin-mining
2530 2011-05-10 14:55:52 <jaromil> mmm sourceforge is bonkers atm, there was a mingw32 pkg-config-path file over there suggested in that howto
2531 2011-05-10 14:56:05 allied has joined
2532 2011-05-10 14:56:18 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, sorry I was confused as to what it was applied to
2533 2011-05-10 14:56:34 <BlueMatt> jaromil: no
2534 2011-05-10 14:56:59 <BlueMatt> nothing in pkgconfig about mingw
2535 2011-05-10 14:57:26 <sipa> BlueMatt: ah, by looking that up, i found something else: EVP_BytesToKey only uses 8 bytes of salt, so i'd say generate a random string for that :)
2536 2011-05-10 14:57:47 <jaromil> BlueMatt: ok i got something
2537 2011-05-10 14:57:48 <BlueMatt> oh, thats anoying...random string huh...sounds good
2538 2011-05-10 14:57:49 <jaromil> checking whether we are cross compiling... yes
2539 2011-05-10 14:57:52 <jaromil> can you try
2540 2011-05-10 14:57:57 <jaromil> ./configure --host i586-mingw32msvc
2541 2011-05-10 14:58:02 <jaromil> please note: --host and not --build
2542 2011-05-10 14:58:08 <BlueMatt> thats what Ive been doing (I think)
2543 2011-05-10 14:58:09 <BlueMatt> let me check
2544 2011-05-10 14:58:10 <sipa> BlueMatt: or just "BTCwallet" :)
2545 2011-05-10 14:58:15 <sipa> damn, 9 bytes
2546 2011-05-10 14:58:39 <BlueMatt> Ill get a random string
2547 2011-05-10 14:59:03 <diki> if someone stole my wallet, cause you know, a rogue miner could appear at any time, and the crook transfered the btc from my wallet to his, is it possible to find that mother*****?
2548 2011-05-10 14:59:21 <nathan7> Nope.
2549 2011-05-10 14:59:35 <BlueMatt> diki: not really, though we have done it once before (because he was an idiot in terms of how he coded the "backup script")
2550 2011-05-10 14:59:46 <sipa> "\xC9\x0F\xDA\xA2\x21\x68\xC2\x34" -> pi/4 in hex :)
2551 2011-05-10 14:59:56 <BlueMatt> pretty funny story...you can look it up on the forums, pretty old though
2552 2011-05-10 15:00:12 <diki> backup script?
2553 2011-05-10 15:00:29 <BlueMatt> it just so happened to backup to the guy who wrote the script's gmail
2554 2011-05-10 15:00:45 <BlueMatt> jaromil: no still a ... no on cross compiling
2555 2011-05-10 15:00:56 <diki> and did you find the guy? did google give the info?
2556 2011-05-10 15:01:05 <jaromil> BlueMatt: strange, i get a yes. do you have a x86_64-*-linux-gnu ?
2557 2011-05-10 15:01:12 <ArtForz> he seemed to have some problems with the smtp send, so he made it send his password
2558 2011-05-10 15:01:12 <jaromil> i mean are you running on 64bit ?
2559 2011-05-10 15:01:24 <jaromil> the best would be to enable me to replicate this problem
2560 2011-05-10 15:01:29 <jaromil> so i can try various things here
2561 2011-05-10 15:01:34 <jaromil> but i'm running on a 64bit machine
2562 2011-05-10 15:01:35 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2563 2011-05-10 15:01:47 <ArtForz> yep, he put his gmail password in the trojan...
2564 2011-05-10 15:01:56 <BlueMatt> to his second gmail
2565 2011-05-10 15:01:56 <jaromil> my build seems to start correctly and crashes because i don't have the boost libraries installed
2566 2011-05-10 15:02:07 <jaromil> which is a PITA you overcome i guess
2567 2011-05-10 15:02:19 <BlueMatt> if you want to read: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3628.0
2568 2011-05-10 15:02:40 <BlueMatt> jaromil: yea, Im on x64 ubuntu
2569 2011-05-10 15:03:02 sethsethseth has joined
2570 2011-05-10 15:03:26 <jaromil> can you copy me a tar.gz of the mandatory support libraries?
2571 2011-05-10 15:03:32 <jaromil> i mean i think only boost is really needed
2572 2011-05-10 15:04:12 <jaromil> mmm, maybe there will be an abi problem with different g++ versions
2573 2011-05-10 15:04:18 <jaromil> i'm on debian, but i really need only the headers
2574 2011-05-10 15:04:28 <jaromil> oh and openssl
2575 2011-05-10 15:04:43 soultcer has joined
2576 2011-05-10 15:04:50 <BlueMatt> jaromil: if you want to build: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/blob/crosscompile/build-linux-win32.txt
2577 2011-05-10 15:05:05 <jaromil> what's the ETA of such a build?
2578 2011-05-10 15:05:29 <BlueMatt> its a while (though depends on your proc of course)
2579 2011-05-10 15:05:35 <BlueMatt> well boost always takes a while
2580 2011-05-10 15:05:49 <jaromil> yea i need to change desk in 1h and a half
2581 2011-05-10 15:05:49 <BlueMatt> let me see what I can get in terms of tar.gz
2582 2011-05-10 15:05:57 BitMark has quit (Quit: BitMark)
2583 2011-05-10 15:06:04 <jaromil> and my quad at home has a fried power supply
2584 2011-05-10 15:06:14 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2585 2011-05-10 15:06:18 vorlov has joined
2586 2011-05-10 15:06:36 sethsethseth____ has joined
2587 2011-05-10 15:06:56 <BlueMatt> tar.xc compressing
2588 2011-05-10 15:07:03 <jaromil> i need only berkleydb, openssl and openssl
2589 2011-05-10 15:07:12 <jaromil> ops and boost
2590 2011-05-10 15:07:25 <BlueMatt> oh, well its got wx in it too, Im too lazy to cancel now
2591 2011-05-10 15:07:26 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2592 2011-05-10 15:07:26 <jaromil> however i got past the crosscompiling... no problem here
2593 2011-05-10 15:07:31 <jaromil> ok np
2594 2011-05-10 15:07:39 <UukGoblin> you need wx 2./9/
2595 2011-05-10 15:07:57 <BlueMatt> hm, damn ubuntu...I guess Ill have to try on debian sometime
2596 2011-05-10 15:08:01 <jaromil> UukGoblin: he obviously has it, since he is the one building win32 official btc client
2597 2011-05-10 15:08:16 <BlueMatt> not sure if thats possible with gitian builder, Ill talk to devrandom about that
2598 2011-05-10 15:08:33 <BlueMatt> well, nightly is built on my other machine, but bitcoin-win32 builds fine here too
2599 2011-05-10 15:08:43 <devrandom_> mmm?
2600 2011-05-10 15:08:49 <BlueMatt> jaromil: no, Im not the one who is, Im the one who will be helping to...
2601 2011-05-10 15:08:51 devrandom_ is now known as devrandom
2602 2011-05-10 15:08:57 <jaromil> ack
2603 2011-05-10 15:09:16 <BlueMatt> devrandom: it appears mingw crosscompiling is easier on debian, how hard is it to do vm-builder on debian?
2604 2011-05-10 15:09:20 <jaromil> BTW ppl on ubuntu report probs with the wx gui
2605 2011-05-10 15:09:23 soultcer has quit (Client Quit)
2606 2011-05-10 15:09:28 <jaromil> i've also seen it crashing, but was 2 weeks ago
2607 2011-05-10 15:09:32 <jaromil> are there fixes to it?
2608 2011-05-10 15:09:35 <BlueMatt> jaromil: thats a wx issue...there is a fix
2609 2011-05-10 15:09:39 <BlueMatt> just have to use wx-trunk
2610 2011-05-10 15:09:46 <jaromil> wx-trunk on bitcoin?
2611 2011-05-10 15:09:58 <BlueMatt> compile latest wx trunk instead of wx-2.9
2612 2011-05-10 15:10:15 <BlueMatt> (Ive got a binary and someone put up a script to do that on the ubuntu 11.04 thread)
2613 2011-05-10 15:10:16 <jaromil> ack
2614 2011-05-10 15:10:27 <jaromil> i'll reply the bug
2615 2011-05-10 15:11:15 soultcer has joined
2616 2011-05-10 15:11:16 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: (re miners) I would be in favor of a 64k free area
2617 2011-05-10 15:11:19 <BlueMatt> I wonder if I can apply this 100$ adwords credit to bitcoin.org
2618 2011-05-10 15:11:37 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: With more people trying out bitcoin, that 4k (then 27k) area will get crowded quickly
2619 2011-05-10 15:11:48 <devrandom> BlueMatt - I haven't tried, but since I use debbootstrap it should be trivial
2620 2011-05-10 15:12:04 <devrandom> s/I use/it uses/
2621 2011-05-10 15:12:04 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I think "we" need to finish headers-only mode first
2622 2011-05-10 15:12:24 <gavinandresen> (I'm planning on tackling that pretty soon)
2623 2011-05-10 15:12:31 <jlewis> luke-jr: you pinged?
2624 2011-05-10 15:12:34 <BlueMatt> devrandom: alright, well me + jaromil will keep looking int it, just might be necessary for bitcoin
2625 2011-05-10 15:12:44 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I think Forbes/etc. influx will arrive before that, but ok :)
2626 2011-05-10 15:13:09 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: I agree with jgarzik, plus 4k->64k should be a pretty quick+easy change?
2627 2011-05-10 15:13:26 <TD> jgarzik: instawallet is probably where we should push newbies to start with
2628 2011-05-10 15:13:32 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: I think it is actually nice to have transaction resource constraints at this point-- gives us an idea of the issues we'll face when transaction volume REALLY gets big
2629 2011-05-10 15:13:39 * BlueMatt loves instawallet
2630 2011-05-10 15:13:52 <gavinandresen> Are we sure jav isn't a scammer?
2631 2011-05-10 15:13:53 Greek_o_nikos has joined
2632 2011-05-10 15:14:06 DD- has quit ()
2633 2011-05-10 15:14:08 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: no, put you cant argue with that simple design
2634 2011-05-10 15:14:12 <gavinandresen> (that's my only concern with suggesting e-wallet services.... how do we trust them?)
2635 2011-05-10 15:14:23 <jgarzik> well, are we sure mybitcoin.com hasn't R-U-N-N-O-F-T?
2636 2011-05-10 15:14:23 <xelister> what is the downside of bigger space - more hdd use?
2637 2011-05-10 15:14:26 <gavinandresen> I agree, instawallet is a fantastic design
2638 2011-05-10 15:14:27 <TD> in the long run i think we don't want most coins stored in ewallets
2639 2011-05-10 15:14:38 <TD> that doesn't imply most users won't be in ewallets, mind you
2640 2011-05-10 15:14:44 LightRider has quit (afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|)
2641 2011-05-10 15:14:53 Greek_o_nikos has left ()
2642 2011-05-10 15:15:01 <TD> for casual use it's sort of hard to argue somebody should run client-side software. for merchants it's hard to argue for an e-wallet service
2643 2011-05-10 15:15:06 <wumpus> ewallets are ok for small amounts for paying online, but to store a lot of coins in them is indeed not a good idea
2644 2011-05-10 15:15:07 <BlueMatt> jaromil: arg, this doesnt want to compress right (wx is taking a ton of space...) give me another minute
2645 2011-05-10 15:15:09 <TD> if that's compelling it means the software needs more work :-)
2646 2011-05-10 15:15:10 <devrandom> gavinandresen - with low trust escrow you can have multiple providers holding the funds jointly
2647 2011-05-10 15:15:12 <gavinandresen> TD: TruCoin is the right design; encrypted backup/storage
2648 2011-05-10 15:15:16 <jaromil> BlueMatt: ok
2649 2011-05-10 15:15:20 <jaromil> i'm here for a while
2650 2011-05-10 15:15:27 * TD hasn't seen trucoin
2651 2011-05-10 15:15:34 <BlueMatt> trucoin?
2652 2011-05-10 15:16:25 <gavinandresen> (unless i'm misremembering the name... one sec, let me find link)
2653 2011-05-10 15:16:40 <UukGoblin> ah, that brings me to another thing I've been thinking about - an RFC of a protocol to instantly transfer bitcoins between wallet providers (e.g. mtgox, mybitcoin, this instawallet too)
2654 2011-05-10 15:16:45 <TD> webcoin?
2655 2011-05-10 15:16:54 <alystair> yencoin?
2656 2011-05-10 15:17:04 <BlueMatt> mycoin
2657 2011-05-10 15:17:05 <devrandom> gavinandresen - so that, let's say, you'd have to confirm a withdrawal at two providers out of three for it to be accepted by the chain
2658 2011-05-10 15:17:13 <gavinandresen> Yeah, http://www.trucoin.com/ -- working with justmoon
2659 2011-05-10 15:17:30 <gavinandresen> (and launching soon)
2660 2011-05-10 15:17:31 <BlueMatt> is that webcoin, but on a hosted?
2661 2011-05-10 15:17:31 <TD> ah right
2662 2011-05-10 15:17:36 <TD> great
2663 2011-05-10 15:17:42 <TD> well the logo is nice :-)
2664 2011-05-10 15:17:53 <BlueMatt> TD: thats all that matters...
2665 2011-05-10 15:18:05 <gavinandresen> See: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7357.20
2666 2011-05-10 15:18:08 * TD judges books by their covers, especially when the book is presently empty :-0
2667 2011-05-10 15:18:21 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2668 2011-05-10 15:18:34 <BlueMatt> ah, hosted webcoin...brillian
2669 2011-05-10 15:18:36 <BlueMatt> t
2670 2011-05-10 15:19:16 sc8nt4u has joined
2671 2011-05-10 15:19:19 <TD> justmoon is working like crazy these days :)
2672 2011-05-10 15:19:38 <BlueMatt> yep, all the better for bitcoin
2673 2011-05-10 15:20:21 * Kiba is looking to launch bitacademy with his tutorial videos
2674 2011-05-10 15:20:53 <Kiba> anyway, two more videos!
2675 2011-05-10 15:20:54 <TD> what will they be about ?
2676 2011-05-10 15:22:27 <jgarzik> heh, the hash rate graph on http://bitcoinwatch.com/ is literally off the charts :)
2677 2011-05-10 15:22:31 <jgarzik> ;;bc,stats
2678 2011-05-10 15:22:32 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123122 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1869 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 10 hours, 52 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 214476.36419603
2679 2011-05-10 15:22:41 Xunie has joined
2680 2011-05-10 15:22:48 <jgarzik> 8.79 blocks per hour, past 24h
2681 2011-05-10 15:22:58 <BlueMatt> hot damn
2682 2011-05-10 15:23:19 sc8nt4u has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2683 2011-05-10 15:23:20 lumos has joined
2684 2011-05-10 15:23:22 <BlueMatt> sipa: want to fix bitcoinwatch's chart?
2685 2011-05-10 15:23:38 <BlueMatt> you do provide that chart right?
2686 2011-05-10 15:24:39 <Kiba> wrong
2687 2011-05-10 15:24:47 <Kiba> tcatm provided the charts
2688 2011-05-10 15:24:53 <Kiba> TD: programming
2689 2011-05-10 15:25:00 <BlueMatt> no tcatm runs the site, I think sipa provides that specific chart
2690 2011-05-10 15:25:08 <BlueMatt> (from sipa.be)
2691 2011-05-10 15:25:10 <TD> i mean, are they tutorials about how to program bitcoin software?
2692 2011-05-10 15:25:16 <TD> or generic programming tutorials
2693 2011-05-10 15:25:26 <Kiba> generic
2694 2011-05-10 15:25:49 <TD> cool
2695 2011-05-10 15:26:08 <xelister> jgarzik: you where the lets-do-it-legally guy right? :) How it works in say USA with using bitcoin between companies
2696 2011-05-10 15:26:08 <Kiba> what's trucoin?
2697 2011-05-10 15:26:14 <xelister> you first pay barter-tax
2698 2011-05-10 15:26:19 <xelister> and then tax on changing to money
2699 2011-05-10 15:26:26 <xelister> or just on changing to money or something other
2700 2011-05-10 15:26:37 <BlueMatt> Kiba: hosted webcoin
2701 2011-05-10 15:26:53 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|is running your 5870 at 92 sane?
2702 2011-05-10 15:27:12 <xelister> kreal|: it will burn out
2703 2011-05-10 15:27:19 <tcatm> kreal|: not at all
2704 2011-05-10 15:27:31 <tcatm> BlueMatt: hashrate chart is from sipa
2705 2011-05-10 15:27:33 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|trying to keep them at 85
2706 2011-05-10 15:27:51 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|but they are keen to jump to 92 from time to time.
2707 2011-05-10 15:27:55 diki has joined
2708 2011-05-10 15:28:11 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|3 x 92g mmm heated floor.
2709 2011-05-10 15:30:35 <sipa> BlueMatt: updating
2710 2011-05-10 15:30:52 <BlueMatt> thanks
2711 2011-05-10 15:30:53 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
2712 2011-05-10 15:31:03 <Kiba> niiiiiiiiiiiiice
2713 2011-05-10 15:31:10 <Kiba> neat things keep poping up everyday
2714 2011-05-10 15:31:30 <tcatm> sipa: you could raise the lower limit a little
2715 2011-05-10 15:32:02 <dinox> Finally got bitcoind to compile... Had to comment out the upnp-lines in makefile.unix
2716 2011-05-10 15:32:29 <BlueMatt> dinox: you can also just do make -f makefile.* USE_UPNP=
2717 2011-05-10 15:32:31 <BlueMatt> to unset it manually
2718 2011-05-10 15:32:44 <sipa> tcatm: done
2719 2011-05-10 15:32:45 <dinox> it was already set to 0 in makefile
2720 2011-05-10 15:32:49 <sipa> and added a grid
2721 2011-05-10 15:32:50 BitMark has joined
2722 2011-05-10 15:32:50 BitMark has quit (Changing host)
2723 2011-05-10 15:32:50 BitMark has joined
2724 2011-05-10 15:32:53 <BlueMatt> dinox: 0 is different than undefined
2725 2011-05-10 15:33:00 <tcatm> sipa: looks good :)
2726 2011-05-10 15:33:05 <wumpus> yeah the 0 got me too at first
2727 2011-05-10 15:33:12 <BlueMatt> 0 means off by default, 1 means on by default USE_UPNP= means no upnp
2728 2011-05-10 15:33:41 <dinox> BlueMatt: aha... should maybe be a notice about this
2729 2011-05-10 15:33:47 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: hate to say I told ya so... (tri-state is confusing)
2730 2011-05-10 15:33:57 <wumpus> they're throwing out the makefile anyway
2731 2011-05-10 15:34:03 <nathan7> BlueMatt: But undefined, as an integer, would be 0
2732 2011-05-10 15:34:03 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: no, I agree...to be fair it is in the instructions though
2733 2011-05-10 15:34:24 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: it would be nice to specify the account from which TX fees are deducted
2734 2011-05-10 15:34:24 * BlueMatt points at luke-jr, tri-state was his idea
2735 2011-05-10 15:34:32 <wumpus> instructions should be in the makefile itself :p
2736 2011-05-10 15:34:36 <BitMark> as part of a tx, can I send 0 bitcoin to an additional address?
2737 2011-05-10 15:34:48 <BlueMatt> wumpus: now that just mekes no sense
2738 2011-05-10 15:35:08 <wumpus> yes it does, for the same reason that you comment code
2739 2011-05-10 15:35:27 <BlueMatt> or you put it in the instructions.txt...
2740 2011-05-10 15:35:44 diki has quit ()
2741 2011-05-10 15:35:59 <wumpus> so you get a lot of questions like this
2742 2011-05-10 15:36:14 <BlueMatt> ...yea
2743 2011-05-10 15:36:25 <BlueMatt> oh well jaromil's autotools stuff will fix it
2744 2011-05-10 15:36:51 <xelister> normally in pools
2745 2011-05-10 15:36:55 <xelister> the payout works how?
2746 2011-05-10 15:36:59 <gavinandresen> BitMark: 0 is an invalid amount to send according to bitcoind and the GUI. But I believe it is valid TxOut amount, so if you hacked the code you could do it.
2747 2011-05-10 15:37:08 <xelister> 50 / percentage_of_your_work_in_current_block ?
2748 2011-05-10 15:37:12 <BitMark> gavinandresen: cool thanks
2749 2011-05-10 15:37:17 <dinox> BlueMatt: You have any idea about this? db.cpp:811: undefined reference to `fUseUPnP'
2750 2011-05-10 15:37:23 <xelister> and work in blocks that where NOT mined by the pool is not awareded at all?
2751 2011-05-10 15:37:25 <sipa> dinox: delete db.o
2752 2011-05-10 15:37:35 <dinox> ok :P
2753 2011-05-10 15:37:35 <BlueMatt> dinox: you have stale outputs, ^
2754 2011-05-10 15:37:35 <gavinandresen> BitMark: ... it'll trigger the "transaction dust spam" fee, of course
2755 2011-05-10 15:37:44 <BitMark> of course
2756 2011-05-10 15:37:49 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/URI_Scheme mentions a 'message' Is that be purely a client/local thing? Or are there plans to somehow include that in the transaction?
2757 2011-05-10 15:38:07 <jgarzik> Marcel|HSD: local
2758 2011-05-10 15:38:09 <BlueMatt> local thing
2759 2011-05-10 15:38:22 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|ok
2760 2011-05-10 15:38:26 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2761 2011-05-10 15:38:32 <BlueMatt> Marcel|HSD: as a sidenote, look at the page history and ignore current version for amount stuff
2762 2011-05-10 15:38:46 <BlueMatt> jaromil: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7NZZSCP6
2763 2011-05-10 15:39:05 <BlueMatt> (those are the contents of my /usr/i586-mingw32msvc with some wx stuff gone
2764 2011-05-10 15:39:52 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: account from which Tx fees are deducted? They're always debited from the sendfrom account (or "" if you're using sendtoaddress)
2765 2011-05-10 15:40:18 <dinox> If I want to restart compilation, could I just delete the whole obj-folder?
2766 2011-05-10 15:40:36 <tcatm> dinox: make clean
2767 2011-05-10 15:40:47 <dinox> ah
2768 2011-05-10 15:40:59 DukeOfURL has joined
2769 2011-05-10 15:41:08 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: use case is setting up a dedicated "pay tx fees" account?
2770 2011-05-10 15:41:08 plutonic has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2771 2011-05-10 15:41:23 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: yep
2772 2011-05-10 15:41:42 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: Hmm, yeah, I can see that. Would the send fail if that account had a negative balance?
2773 2011-05-10 15:42:14 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I use the accounts system on xf2.org. It would be a nice service to users to pay fees, but eat the cost rather than charging each user.
2774 2011-05-10 15:42:32 <jgarzik> no idea bout negative balance
2775 2011-05-10 15:42:34 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2776 2011-05-10 15:42:36 <jgarzik> I try to avoid that, as it's scary :)
2777 2011-05-10 15:43:02 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: That's what ClearCoin does-- eats the fees. It just does a gettransaction and uses move to refund users' accounts
2778 2011-05-10 15:43:27 <Kiba> jgarzik: hey jgarzik, what about pastecoin?
2779 2011-05-10 15:43:43 <jgarzik> Kiba: what about the prediction market?
2780 2011-05-10 15:44:10 <gavinandresen> I predict it'll never get built :-)
2781 2011-05-10 15:44:12 gpurig has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2782 2011-05-10 15:44:20 plutonic has joined
2783 2011-05-10 15:44:47 <wumpus> lol :)
2784 2011-05-10 15:45:08 <Kiba> but I built bitcoinweekly
2785 2011-05-10 15:45:15 gpurig has joined
2786 2011-05-10 15:45:19 <wumpus> and you didn't need to build a prediction market to predict that
2787 2011-05-10 15:45:32 danbri_ is now known as danbri
2788 2011-05-10 15:45:37 <jgarzik> gpurig: you should post what kind of datacenter you're using; backup power setup, etc.
2789 2011-05-10 15:46:12 ByteCoin has left ()
2790 2011-05-10 15:46:23 <molecular> "sendtoaddress <bitcoinaddress> <amount> [comment] [comment-to]" <- comment? how does this work?
2791 2011-05-10 15:46:27 <gavinandresen> It is probably to early for a bet-bitcoins prediction market; you need a critical mass of people interested in prediction markets, and we barley have critical mass of people interested in bitcoins
2792 2011-05-10 15:46:27 gjs278 has joined
2793 2011-05-10 15:46:58 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2794 2011-05-10 15:47:05 <gavinandresen> molecular: comments are stored in your wallet, so listtransactions will show them to you.
2795 2011-05-10 15:47:28 <gavinandresen> molecular: they can be very handy if you're tying bitcoin transactions to entries in a database, for example
2796 2011-05-10 15:47:32 <molecular> oh, ok. I was hoping I could send a comment along with the coins
2797 2011-05-10 15:47:37 <Kiba> gavinandresen: but we got a stock market!
2798 2011-05-10 15:47:46 <jgarzik> Kiba: a toy stock market
2799 2011-05-10 15:47:56 <Kiba> nonetheless, a stock market
2800 2011-05-10 15:47:56 <jgarzik> Kiba: without a web interface, even
2801 2011-05-10 15:48:06 <gavinandresen> More people are interested in stocks than prediction markets...
2802 2011-05-10 15:48:25 <gpurig> Hi I am selling mining contracts. On the site there (http://www.weusecoins.com/mining-guide.php) there is currently one link to a post from another person (vladimir) who is also selling mining contracts. As visitors of the site follow this link they get only his post to see. Is there any admin I can contact so my post is also linked on the website or his is removed (this is no fair competition :( ) Thanx in advance
2803 2011-05-10 15:48:30 <TD> i was wondering if it's possible to implement a distributed lottery with contracts the other day
2804 2011-05-10 15:48:43 <Kiba> Nefario apperantly don't think a web interface is particularly important
2805 2011-05-10 15:48:52 <TD> gpurig: if you build up a thread with credible prices, customers etc you can contact justmoon and ask him
2806 2011-05-10 15:49:06 <TD> gpurig: vladimir is listed there because he has good community reputation, basically
2807 2011-05-10 15:49:11 <gpurig> ok
2808 2011-05-10 15:49:32 <nefario> we're working on a gui
2809 2011-05-10 15:49:45 <tcatm> nefario: make a javascript gui
2810 2011-05-10 15:49:52 <Kiba> go web
2811 2011-05-10 15:49:53 <nefario> not possible
2812 2011-05-10 15:49:58 <jgarzik> even an HTML 1.0 gui
2813 2011-05-10 15:50:02 <tcatm> nefario: why not?
2814 2011-05-10 15:50:03 <jgarzik> is better than current
2815 2011-05-10 15:50:17 <gpurig> TD: I will contact justmoon, thanx for the info. I have better prices than Vladimir (see my post: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7727.0)
2816 2011-05-10 15:50:21 <Kiba> write javascript crypto library if you have to, nefario
2817 2011-05-10 15:50:22 <nefario> system uses RSA keypairs for authentication and authorisation
2818 2011-05-10 15:50:29 <TD> that's cool, vlad could use a bit of competition ;)
2819 2011-05-10 15:50:32 <tcatm> that's possible in javascript
2820 2011-05-10 15:50:34 <Kiba> pfft. they're just algorithms
2821 2011-05-10 15:50:38 <jgarzik> gpurig: you have not answered people's questions though
2822 2011-05-10 15:50:50 <gpurig> I did, check it out...
2823 2011-05-10 15:50:50 <jgarzik> gpurig: how do people know you're not some kid, setting up computers in mom's basement?
2824 2011-05-10 15:51:05 <nefario> yeah but they need to load up the private key from the users system
2825 2011-05-10 15:51:11 <gavinandresen> nefario: There's a group at Stanford that has an open source JavaScript crypto library. I think they do RSA
2826 2011-05-10 15:51:24 <nefario> hmmm thanks
2827 2011-05-10 15:51:27 <nefario> I'll look into that
2828 2011-05-10 15:51:31 <tcatm> nefario: textarea where user can past it?
2829 2011-05-10 15:51:36 <gpurig> jgarzik: good question, maybe I will take some fotos of my current rigs
2830 2011-05-10 15:51:36 <tcatm> paste*
2831 2011-05-10 15:51:36 <gavinandresen> (they were working on ECDSA last time I checked)
2832 2011-05-10 15:51:36 <Kiba> nefario: the browsers these days are making it possible for offline app if you need to
2833 2011-05-10 15:51:42 <nefario> if it works then we'll go for that
2834 2011-05-10 15:51:52 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2835 2011-05-10 15:51:57 <Kiba> don't neglect the web
2836 2011-05-10 15:52:03 <nefario> am not
2837 2011-05-10 15:52:13 <nefario> just really ffffing slow to get started with it
2838 2011-05-10 15:52:27 <gavinandresen> nefario: http://crypto.stanford.edu/sjcl/
2839 2011-05-10 15:52:30 <tcatm> it's not slow if you only encrypt/decrypt a few messages
2840 2011-05-10 15:52:46 <nefario> I mean programmingslow to get the programming done
2841 2011-05-10 15:52:59 <gavinandresen> nefario: (and I'm wrong, they don't do RSA)
2842 2011-05-10 15:53:21 <nefario> thanks gavin
2843 2011-05-10 15:53:26 <citiz3n> hey gavin, is there a date set for that Chicago thing?
2844 2011-05-10 15:53:38 <nefario> kiba, what you want is just charts right?
2845 2011-05-10 15:54:25 <gavinandresen> citiz3n: I just forwarded the contact info to you-- if you want to set a date, contact them and set one.
2846 2011-05-10 15:54:40 <Kiba> nefario: if you want people to use your global stock market, it should be on the web.
2847 2011-05-10 15:54:45 <Kiba> and I like charts..
2848 2011-05-10 15:54:47 <citiz3n> ok cool, thanks
2849 2011-05-10 15:55:10 <jgarzik> nefario: basic principle: people should not need to download a client. their web browser should be all they need to use this stock market.
2850 2011-05-10 15:55:30 * gavinandresen agrees with jgarzik
2851 2011-05-10 15:55:37 <Kiba> if I were to do the stock market, I would go straight for the web
2852 2011-05-10 15:55:44 <nefario> fine
2853 2011-05-10 15:55:55 <nefario> your all just a bunch of bullies
2854 2011-05-10 15:56:11 <gavinandresen> OUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!
2855 2011-05-10 15:56:18 <gavinandresen> NYAH!
2856 2011-05-10 15:56:32 <nefario> I know kung fu!
2857 2011-05-10 15:56:35 <nefario> keep back
2858 2011-05-10 15:56:37 gpurig has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2859 2011-05-10 15:56:39 <gavinandresen> lol
2860 2011-05-10 15:56:39 <jgarzik> nefario: It's your time and interest, and a [mostly] free world. You're free to continue on your chosen path :)
2861 2011-05-10 15:57:19 <Kiba> it's also capital, jgarzik
2862 2011-05-10 15:57:26 <jgarzik> Just offering comments. Unless you're Rosetta Stone or Microsoft, you maximize your client base with a web UI, rather than a downloaded client.
2863 2011-05-10 15:57:40 <nefario> I know your right
2864 2011-05-10 15:57:42 <acfrazier> which linux distro would you guys use for a pool server?
2865 2011-05-10 15:57:46 <jgarzik> downloaded clients self-selects yourself away from a large part of the universe :)
2866 2011-05-10 15:57:50 <nefario> just wanted to stay away from javascript
2867 2011-05-10 15:57:59 <nefario> looks like thats not going to happen
2868 2011-05-10 15:58:00 <Kiba> what's bad about javascript?
2869 2011-05-10 15:58:04 <gavinandresen> Web+mobile is the way to go. Which is why I haven't spent much time on the bitcoin GUI....
2870 2011-05-10 15:58:21 <nefario> I see
2871 2011-05-10 15:58:29 <Kiba> satoshi did not implemented bitcoin javascript, but C++
2872 2011-05-10 15:58:31 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: I would be happy if the bitcoin GUI went away
2873 2011-05-10 15:58:33 <nefario> kiba, I had a bad experience
2874 2011-05-10 15:58:37 <citiz3n> a secure mobile solution would be fantastic :)
2875 2011-05-10 15:58:40 <nefario> bad memories
2876 2011-05-10 15:58:45 <nefario> I know times have changed
2877 2011-05-10 15:58:50 <jgarzik> just JSON-RPC + P2P, that's all we need
2878 2011-05-10 15:58:51 <nefario> but still, it lingers
2879 2011-05-10 15:58:57 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: me too, but not until there's a good, supported-by-somebody-else replacement
2880 2011-05-10 15:59:01 <Kiba> nefario: it's irrational then.
2881 2011-05-10 15:59:02 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: agreed
2882 2011-05-10 15:59:13 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: one that's (a) complete and (b) doesn't support Tonal
2883 2011-05-10 15:59:14 * jgarzik runs
2884 2011-05-10 15:59:17 <nefario> kiba, I never said it was a good reason
2885 2011-05-10 15:59:19 <gavinandresen> (and preferably two or three)
2886 2011-05-10 15:59:34 <citiz3n> lol tonal
2887 2011-05-10 15:59:35 <gavinandresen> don't say the T-word
2888 2011-05-10 15:59:37 <nefario> this will fix our installation headaches
2889 2011-05-10 15:59:42 <Blitzboom> haha
2890 2011-05-10 15:59:54 <jgarzik> beetlejuice beetlejuice beetlejuice
2891 2011-05-10 16:00:12 <wumpus> yeah the current Wx GUI is kind of hacked into the server part
2892 2011-05-10 16:00:27 <gavinandresen> you're just in a good mood because bitcoins are going to hit $5 tomorrow.
2893 2011-05-10 16:00:28 <sacarlson> jgarzik: that's all I play with is bitcoind, I keep pushing spesmilo or equivalent
2894 2011-05-10 16:00:56 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: Starbucks Coffee parity
2895 2011-05-10 16:01:00 <jgarzik> or is that $10?
2896 2011-05-10 16:01:01 <jgarzik> :)
2897 2011-05-10 16:01:14 <edcba> $5 ?
2898 2011-05-10 16:01:17 <edcba> wtf
2899 2011-05-10 16:01:20 <Diablo-D3> heh
2900 2011-05-10 16:01:21 <edcba> ;;mtgox
2901 2011-05-10 16:01:21 <gribble> Error: "mtgox" is not a valid command.
2902 2011-05-10 16:01:34 <edcba> oh fuck those keywords
2903 2011-05-10 16:01:48 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: hey
2904 2011-05-10 16:01:50 <jaromil> BlueMatt: thanks. i'm downloading and moving out
2905 2011-05-10 16:01:56 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: you need to add another field to getinfo
2906 2011-05-10 16:02:00 <jaromil> will report tonight or tomorrow
2907 2011-05-10 16:02:04 <wumpus> btw ,is that intermingling of GUI and server logic neccesary? or is everything the GUI does supported through the JSON API?
2908 2011-05-10 16:02:09 <jgarzik> ;;bc,mtgox
2909 2011-05-10 16:02:09 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":4.99,"low":3.8,"vol":32220,"buy":4.7,"sell":4.725,"last":4.725}}
2910 2011-05-10 16:02:23 <jgarzik> wumpus: not necessary
2911 2011-05-10 16:02:29 <gavinandresen> Diablo-D3: cool, can you file a github issue?
2912 2011-05-10 16:02:43 <wumpus> also the address book dialog info could be requested through JSON?
2913 2011-05-10 16:02:47 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: heeehhh I just want a field that says what the current BTC per block is =P
2914 2011-05-10 16:02:51 pnicholson has joined
2915 2011-05-10 16:03:09 <Blitzboom> gavinandresen: hey, how do you know that? :D
2916 2011-05-10 16:03:17 <sacarlson> wumpus: as far as I know you can do a bit more with bitcoind like smaller transactions of less than .01
2917 2011-05-10 16:03:19 <Blitzboom> forbes?
2918 2011-05-10 16:03:42 <gavinandresen> Blitzboom: I don't know that bitcoins will hit $5 tomorrow, I'm guessing.
2919 2011-05-10 16:03:51 <edcba> heh btw that fbi thingy happened ?
2920 2011-05-10 16:04:00 <gavinandresen> cia. And no, that's June 14
2921 2011-05-10 16:04:06 <edcba> k
2922 2011-05-10 16:04:14 <Blitzboom> the CIA is apparently buying bitcoins like mad
2923 2011-05-10 16:04:23 <edcba> lol
2924 2011-05-10 16:04:24 <gavinandresen> your tax-dollars at work
2925 2011-05-10 16:04:25 <Diablo-D3> well
2926 2011-05-10 16:04:29 <Diablo-D3> if the CIA wants to buy them
2927 2011-05-10 16:04:29 <wumpus> because I'm still wondering how to integrate my Qt GUI into the current bitcoin source, seems the logical way is to just use the API instead of the current weird mingling
2928 2011-05-10 16:04:29 <gavinandresen> KIDDING, I'm KIDDING
2929 2011-05-10 16:04:31 <nefario> until after gavins presentation
2930 2011-05-10 16:04:34 <Diablo-D3> I'd gladly sell directly to them
2931 2011-05-10 16:04:42 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|why cant i find any delta 120mm fans in denmark
2932 2011-05-10 16:04:47 <Blitzboom> iâll only sell for a prick premium to them
2933 2011-05-10 16:05:01 <jgarzik> wumpus: didn't MagicalTux already work on a Qt GUI?
2934 2011-05-10 16:05:06 <Diablo-D3> fuck qt
2935 2011-05-10 16:05:08 <jgarzik> wumpus: you might be re-creating the wheel
2936 2011-05-10 16:05:09 <Diablo-D3> goddamned kde noobs
2937 2011-05-10 16:05:09 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: if they get a big enuf hold on them they may want to break it?
2938 2011-05-10 16:05:19 <Diablo-D3> sacarlson: let them
2939 2011-05-10 16:05:31 MadSweeney has quit ()
2940 2011-05-10 16:05:36 <wumpus> jgarzik: dunno, I'm doing this just for fun anyway
2941 2011-05-10 16:06:12 <gavinandresen> Today's media appearance will be me and genjix on This Week in Startups with Jason Calacanis. Streaming live at 4PM EST (1PM PST)
2942 2011-05-10 16:06:37 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: I guess it's a good tool for them but it will have to be a much biger number for them to use like to be able to transact 10 million at a time is probly a small transaction
2943 2011-05-10 16:07:00 <Kiba> gavinandresen: awesome
2944 2011-05-10 16:07:02 <Kiba> you're famous now
2945 2011-05-10 16:07:04 <wumpus> I know there is a qbitcoin plan but as I understood they are rewriting the entire client, I don't intend to, I just want to replace the GUI to get rid of Wx and keep the rest the same
2946 2011-05-10 16:07:20 <Kiba> you get all the fame that would otherwise went to satoshi
2947 2011-05-10 16:07:29 <gavinandresen> fame is a pain in the ass
2948 2011-05-10 16:07:38 <UukGoblin> ;;google est
2949 2011-05-10 16:07:38 <gribble> EST â Eastern Standard Time: <http://www.timeanddate.com/library/abbreviations/timezones/na/est.html>; Current local time in U.S.A. â New York â New York: <http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=179>; ET: EST: Eastern Time (USA & Canada). What's the time now in EST ...: <http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/eastern-time/>
2950 2011-05-10 16:07:49 <Kiba> gavinandresen: how?
2951 2011-05-10 16:07:53 <wumpus> being a figurehead for a project like this sounds like a difficult task
2952 2011-05-10 16:08:00 <TD> the CIA comes knocking
2953 2011-05-10 16:08:09 <nathan7> ;o
2954 2011-05-10 16:08:14 <jaromil> wumpus: what are your plans for a gui?
2955 2011-05-10 16:08:16 <nathan7> *:o
2956 2011-05-10 16:08:19 <Kiba> gavinandresen: didn't your wife say it's pretend money or something?
2957 2011-05-10 16:08:21 <gavinandresen> I have to find ways to say "no" politely
2958 2011-05-10 16:08:28 <jaromil> i am planning a very simple, little, process separated thing in gtk for the status tray
2959 2011-05-10 16:08:32 <Diablo-D3> man
2960 2011-05-10 16:08:35 <UukGoblin> so that's... 11pm BST
2961 2011-05-10 16:08:36 <Diablo-D3> maybe the cia would hire me =/
2962 2011-05-10 16:08:36 <gavinandresen> Kiba: yup, bitcoin is my "pretend money project"
2963 2011-05-10 16:08:40 <Diablo-D3> probably pays decent.
2964 2011-05-10 16:08:45 <sacarlson> Kiba: maybe gavin is satoshi?
2965 2011-05-10 16:08:52 <Kiba> gavinandresen: well, you get to talk to the CIA now.
2966 2011-05-10 16:08:54 <wumpus> jaromil: I'm redoing the current bitcoin GUI in Qt4, nothing more nothing less :)
2967 2011-05-10 16:08:56 <jaromil> Diablo-D3: it doesn't lets you sleep well to work for them.
2968 2011-05-10 16:09:08 <TD> here we go
2969 2011-05-10 16:09:12 <jaromil> wumpus: ack. i think QT is a good idea.
2970 2011-05-10 16:09:13 * TD watches the google io keynote
2971 2011-05-10 16:09:20 <Diablo-D3> jaromil: I will murder people in their sleep if they pay well.
2972 2011-05-10 16:09:29 <Kiba> perhaps it's not so "pretend" now that her husband get invited to tv shows and conference
2973 2011-05-10 16:09:36 <wumpus> jaromil: at least all the distribs have it installed, and it's very fun to work with (personal opinion)
2974 2011-05-10 16:09:37 <jaromil> Diablo-D3: yea that's what they usually pay for
2975 2011-05-10 16:09:57 <Diablo-D3> not really
2976 2011-05-10 16:10:01 <Diablo-D3> 99.9% of CIA work: PAPERWORK
2977 2011-05-10 16:10:13 <wumpus> boring
2978 2011-05-10 16:10:27 <jaromil> i wish you are right
2979 2011-05-10 16:10:29 <Kiba> so they don't do coups 99% of the time?
2980 2011-05-10 16:10:39 <nathan7> gavinandresen: I find it very satisfying to say 'NO.'
2981 2011-05-10 16:10:42 <wumpus> I thought they were piloting drones to shoot stuff all over the world from behind their videogame console
2982 2011-05-10 16:10:44 <primary> south america has gotten harder to crack at these days
2983 2011-05-10 16:10:45 <nathan7> In real life, that is
2984 2011-05-10 16:10:59 <nathan7> /away food
2985 2011-05-10 16:11:18 <alystair> http://www.google.com/events/io/2011/index-live.html
2986 2011-05-10 16:11:20 <alystair> live streaming!
2987 2011-05-10 16:11:24 kreal has quit (!~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|Remote host closed the connection)
2988 2011-05-10 16:11:24 <Kiba> what's the latency of piloting drone half way a round the world?
2989 2011-05-10 16:11:32 <sacarlson> Kiba: I think they just pay people to do coups for them now subcontract out
2990 2011-05-10 16:11:35 <jaromil> alystair: what is that
2991 2011-05-10 16:11:40 <wumpus> Kiba: 50ms or so?
2992 2011-05-10 16:11:54 <UukGoblin> the first thing the presenter should be asking: when do you think Satoshi will spend his 2M BTC from early generations?
2993 2011-05-10 16:12:00 <UukGoblin> :-]
2994 2011-05-10 16:12:02 <BlueMatt> alystair: or live.twit.tv
2995 2011-05-10 16:12:55 <sacarlson> Kiba: seems very short most the piloting is done autonomis
2996 2011-05-10 16:13:34 <jaromil> BlueMatt: d/loaded thanks
2997 2011-05-10 16:13:34 <sacarlson> kiba I worked on the globalhawk system it's cool
2998 2011-05-10 16:13:35 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2999 2011-05-10 16:13:36 <wumpus> on the other hand it goes through satellite, which adds some extra processing lag
3000 2011-05-10 16:13:58 <Kiba> not very good if your bot is being chased by fighter pilots
3001 2011-05-10 16:14:13 <wumpus> nah you are so much more versatile than a fighter plane
3002 2011-05-10 16:14:46 <Kiba> in a fight, I think a fighter plane will own the bot's ass simply because of the latency
3003 2011-05-10 16:15:22 marlowe has joined
3004 2011-05-10 16:15:39 <wumpus> just send it on a collision course :) it's basically a remote controlled missile
3005 2011-05-10 16:15:40 <Kiba> in my mind, reaction time is the primary component of combat success
3006 2011-05-10 16:15:53 <sacarlson> kiba they can't even see what's outside the plane, they are sitting ducks if a fighter finds them but they fly at 25k or higher so not likly to be seen
3007 2011-05-10 16:16:00 <wumpus> and they're expandable, in contrast to pilots which are very expensive
3008 2011-05-10 16:17:11 <jgarzik> sacarlson: neat (G.H.)
3009 2011-05-10 16:17:13 <sacarlson> wumpus: yes they are very cheap and can fly for over 30 hours in a single flight that can't be done with human flight
3010 2011-05-10 16:17:30 <wumpus> then again, in a symmetric world war they're probably useless... first thing a world power would to is wipe out control sattelites
3011 2011-05-10 16:17:33 <Kiba> in a fight, combat latency still matters
3012 2011-05-10 16:17:51 * jgarzik comes from a long line of Marine fighter pilots (and, post-war, flight sim programmers... you know, the REAL flight simulators that you sit in, to train pilots)
3013 2011-05-10 16:17:59 <jgarzik> drones are awesome
3014 2011-05-10 16:18:22 <sacarlson> wumpus: they proved they didn't need satalite with the flight from edwards to austrailia with no comunication all autonomis
3015 2011-05-10 16:18:31 <wumpus> ok
3016 2011-05-10 16:18:33 <Kiba> if you make drones smart, you might have a chance, but if they need to be controlled from satelite, you're d00med!
3017 2011-05-10 16:19:09 <wumpus> if you make them too smart, you might be d00med too :)
3018 2011-05-10 16:19:12 <jaromil> BlueMatt: xz?! never heard about this compressor
3019 2011-05-10 16:19:18 <jaromil> yet, i have it installed
3020 2011-05-10 16:19:55 <BlueMatt> yea, its an lzma based algo
3021 2011-05-10 16:20:03 <BlueMatt> (lzma2)
3022 2011-05-10 16:20:05 <Diablo-D3> xz == lzma2 ripped out of 7zip
3023 2011-05-10 16:20:20 <wumpus> ah yeah xz, I also only recently heard of it
3024 2011-05-10 16:20:21 <BlueMatt> yep
3025 2011-05-10 16:20:24 <Diablo-D3> its basically shit compared to lrzip -U
3026 2011-05-10 16:20:35 <BlueMatt> yes, yes and yet its installed by default, lrzip isnt
3027 2011-05-10 16:20:36 <Kiba> wumpus: you can compensate shitty thought process with faster reaction time
3028 2011-05-10 16:20:44 <BlueMatt> so its more compatible
3029 2011-05-10 16:20:51 <Diablo-D3> BlueMatt: its not installed by default on most machines
3030 2011-05-10 16:21:03 <wumpus> on ubuntu it's installed by default
3031 2011-05-10 16:21:17 <BlueMatt> on debian its installed by default
3032 2011-05-10 16:21:20 <jaromil> ack
3033 2011-05-10 16:21:20 <Kiba> by having more intelligence on board, you don't need operators
3034 2011-05-10 16:21:33 <jaromil> yea it was already on my debian
3035 2011-05-10 16:21:52 <wumpus> Kiba: yes but to actually pull the trigger you do still need a human
3036 2011-05-10 16:22:07 <edcba> "by having more intelligence on board, you don't need operators" < not at work
3037 2011-05-10 16:22:33 <BlueMatt> lol "google technology extraction team, based in roswell, new mexico" -google io
3038 2011-05-10 16:22:37 <Kiba> wumpus: then give bot the triggers
3039 2011-05-10 16:22:50 <Kiba> terrorize the airspace with your killer bots
3040 2011-05-10 16:23:03 <wumpus> ah, right, just set them to shoot everything
3041 2011-05-10 16:23:07 <wumpus> I agree :)
3042 2011-05-10 16:23:18 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: they must be fresh off the UFO
3043 2011-05-10 16:23:24 <Kiba> once you have that, you're free to bombs the enemies as much as you like
3044 2011-05-10 16:23:27 ErrydayimGenerat has joined
3045 2011-05-10 16:23:44 <wumpus> lol BlueMatt
3046 2011-05-10 16:24:06 <wumpus> so they're using alien technology to mine bitcoins now?
3047 2011-05-10 16:24:15 <BlueMatt> something like that
3048 2011-05-10 16:24:16 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I should have known that google was created by alians to learn more about humans
3049 2011-05-10 16:24:22 AStove has joined
3050 2011-05-10 16:24:25 <BlueMatt> TD: weve figure you out
3051 2011-05-10 16:24:49 <Kiba> wumpus: those fighter pilots can't do anything because killer bots are too fast for them to react
3052 2011-05-10 16:24:58 <BlueMatt> killer androids*
3053 2011-05-10 16:25:03 marlowe has quit (Quit: leaving)
3054 2011-05-10 16:25:28 marlowe has joined
3055 2011-05-10 16:25:46 <sacarlson> wumpus: you see the alians need to have access to our money to so that we become there slaves so now with bitcoins they can do that without detection
3056 2011-05-10 16:26:12 <wumpus> sacarlson: yes, it makes sense for them to first take over our currency system
3057 2011-05-10 16:26:33 primary has left ("Left.")
3058 2011-05-10 16:26:49 <sacarlson> wumpus: they have some need for our resources like gold it seems they have been mining it here for thousands of years
3059 2011-05-10 16:27:47 <Kiba> sacarlson: just mine the asteroid belt
3060 2011-05-10 16:28:07 <sacarlson> kiba they are too lazy the get us to do it for them
3061 2011-05-10 16:28:15 <Kiba> don't need to trick ever more intelligent great apes like us
3062 2011-05-10 16:28:28 <Kiba> the asteroid belt is extraordinary rich
3063 2011-05-10 16:29:30 <Kiba> that being said...I wonder if we will ever build a matroshokia brain
3064 2011-05-10 16:29:37 <sacarlson> Kiba: it takes energy and chemicals to mine so it could make sence that they find a way to get a stupid animal to do it for them for free
3065 2011-05-10 16:30:10 <Kiba> sacarlson: it takes lot less energy to arrive at the asteroid belt rather than go to planet earth
3066 2011-05-10 16:30:14 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 298000
3067 2011-05-10 16:30:15 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 298000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 1.90398323429 BTC per day and 0.0793326347621 BTC per hour.
3068 2011-05-10 16:30:34 <Kiba> I think we will transform planet earth into a jupiter computer before long
3069 2011-05-10 16:31:05 <sacarlson> kiba that asumes you haven't found the way to bend space time
3070 2011-05-10 16:31:29 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i've found the bug in the boost flags!
3071 2011-05-10 16:31:33 <jaromil> --with-boost-libdir=/home/jrml/devel/bitcoin-mingw32-libs/lib --with-boost=/home/jrml/devel/bitcoin-mingw32-libs
3072 2011-05-10 16:31:38 <jaromil> BOTH are needed
3073 2011-05-10 16:31:42 <BlueMatt> ahhh
3074 2011-05-10 16:31:48 <BlueMatt> ok, well theres one lib
3075 2011-05-10 16:31:49 <jaromil> --with-boost simply tells it to NOT use the default
3076 2011-05-10 16:32:01 <jaromil> so the other really tells it the location
3077 2011-05-10 16:32:08 <jaromil> one only is not good enough
3078 2011-05-10 16:32:17 <jaromil> i was also puzzled by the fact they weren't honored
3079 2011-05-10 16:32:23 <jaromil> so we are one step away...
3080 2011-05-10 16:32:27 <BlueMatt> nice, ok well that makes sense I guess
3081 2011-05-10 16:32:31 <BlueMatt> what step?
3082 2011-05-10 16:32:38 <jaromil> from completing :)
3083 2011-05-10 16:33:01 <jgarzik> from being ready for next in-depth review :)
3084 2011-05-10 16:33:02 <BlueMatt> also, does it change the boost lib names (they have an extra -s on the end or something IIRC)
3085 2011-05-10 16:33:07 <jaromil> yea :)
3086 2011-05-10 16:33:11 <BlueMatt> nice
3087 2011-05-10 16:33:17 <jaromil> yes it does
3088 2011-05-10 16:33:17 <BlueMatt> well that solves alot
3089 2011-05-10 16:33:21 <jaromil> yes
3090 2011-05-10 16:33:27 <jaromil> i was already adding them manually
3091 2011-05-10 16:33:34 <BlueMatt> lol, ok
3092 2011-05-10 16:33:35 <jaromil> but it seems to look automatically for -mt-
3093 2011-05-10 16:33:55 <jaromil> i am still puzzled about your crosscompile ... no issue
3094 2011-05-10 16:34:10 <BlueMatt> yea, I have no idea there
3095 2011-05-10 16:34:24 <BlueMatt> though its just cosmetic if everything else works
3096 2011-05-10 16:34:36 <jaromil> ah ok
3097 2011-05-10 16:34:36 <BlueMatt> (so Im not too concerned)
3098 2011-05-10 16:34:43 `2Fast2BCn has joined
3099 2011-05-10 16:34:44 <jaromil> can you try those flags i pasted?
3100 2011-05-10 16:34:45 <Kiba> sacarlson: assumign what?
3101 2011-05-10 16:34:47 <jaromil> with your own path?
3102 2011-05-10 16:34:47 <BlueMatt> I just thought it might be an underlying cause
3103 2011-05-10 16:34:53 Ratt has joined
3104 2011-05-10 16:34:55 <jaromil> i give make and get another problem...
3105 2011-05-10 16:35:58 `2Fast2BCn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3106 2011-05-10 16:36:36 `2Fast2BCn is now known as 2!~freenode@78-21-33-225.access.telenet.be|`2Fast2BCn
3107 2011-05-10 16:37:44 <jaromil> mmm ok more cleanup needed i'll go through it
3108 2011-05-10 16:38:00 <jaromil> basically the m4 scripts for boost are crappy on mingw32
3109 2011-05-10 16:38:08 phantomcircuit has joined
3110 2011-05-10 16:38:23 <BlueMatt> clearly, I get all kinds of messages
3111 2011-05-10 16:38:57 <jgarzik> oh, sweet: http://scottt.tw/fedora/mingw32-wxWidgets-2.8.11-1.fc13.src.rpm
3112 2011-05-10 16:39:08 <jgarzik> this means I have everything I need to test jaromil's stuff on fedora+mingw32
3113 2011-05-10 16:39:25 <jaromil> jgarzik: great!
3114 2011-05-10 16:39:35 <jgarzik> fedora ships all bitcoin deps for mingw32 except EC-ified openssl, and wx
3115 2011-05-10 16:39:45 <jaromil> did you test already fedora without cross compiling?
3116 2011-05-10 16:39:58 <jgarzik> jaromil: no, I'm waiting for the churn to settle
3117 2011-05-10 16:40:16 kreal has joined
3118 2011-05-10 16:40:31 <jgarzik> jaromil: with your original stuff, I was able to build bitcoind on win32 using mingw32, even
3119 2011-05-10 16:40:34 <CIA-30> bitcoin: various personal * r4e3096..e5f18e pushpool-personal/ (config.c util.c server.c msg.c db-mysql.c server.h): (5 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3egzu9w
3120 2011-05-10 16:40:39 <jaromil> mmmm does this kind of errors ring a bell?
3121 2011-05-10 16:40:40 <jgarzik> haven't tried in a long time, though
3122 2011-05-10 16:40:40 <jaromil> /home/jrml/devel/bitcoin-mingw32-libs/include/rpcnsip.h:11: error: âRPC_NS_HANDLEâ does not name a type
3123 2011-05-10 16:40:41 <UukGoblin> hmm are there any paid jobs related to bitcoin?
3124 2011-05-10 16:40:43 <jaromil> /home/jrml/devel/bitcoin-mingw32-libs/include/rpcnsip.h:12: error: âRPC_BINDING_HANDLEâ does not name a type
3125 2011-05-10 16:40:56 <UukGoblin> programming I mean
3126 2011-05-10 16:41:19 <jgarzik> luke-jr: your gitweb gives 500 internal server error
3127 2011-05-10 16:41:30 <BlueMatt> jaromil: if you remove -I. it works fine
3128 2011-05-10 16:41:32 <luke-jr> jgarzik: just worked for me twice O.o
3129 2011-05-10 16:41:34 <BlueMatt> not really sure why yet
3130 2011-05-10 16:41:35 <jaromil> BlueMatt: ACK
3131 2011-05-10 16:41:42 <jaromil> yea weird ok
3132 2011-05-10 16:41:59 <jgarzik> luke-jr: now it's working. check your server error logs.
3133 2011-05-10 16:42:36 <jaromil> this might be a show stopper...
3134 2011-05-10 16:42:40 <jaromil> for the moment
3135 2011-05-10 16:42:42 <BlueMatt> lol, google has a workout machine up on the stage...and the guy just pulls off his pants on stage...wow
3136 2011-05-10 16:42:45 <jaromil> -I. is default
3137 2011-05-10 16:42:55 <jgarzik> luke-jr: where does X-Roll-Ntime come from?
3138 2011-05-10 16:42:55 <B0g4r7> Aliens son't give a crap about BTC except fro what hold it has on us.
3139 2011-05-10 16:43:03 <jgarzik> luke-jr: poclbm has already deployed X-Ntime in the field
3140 2011-05-10 16:43:08 <sipa> jgarzik: EC-ified openssl? isn't EC stuff standard now in openssl?
3141 2011-05-10 16:43:19 <jgarzik> sipa: it's ripped out from fedora
3142 2011-05-10 16:43:22 <jgarzik> sipa: patent reasons
3143 2011-05-10 16:43:32 <BlueMatt> why?
3144 2011-05-10 16:43:32 <jgarzik> sipa: same reason why I refuse to build and distribute bitcoin
3145 2011-05-10 16:43:32 <luke-jr> jgarzik: poclbm?
3146 2011-05-10 16:43:37 <sipa> jgarzik: current poclbm uses X-Roll-NTime
3147 2011-05-10 16:43:39 diki has joined
3148 2011-05-10 16:43:50 <diki> someone is requesting very small amounts of btc
3149 2011-05-10 16:43:51 <diki> http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
3150 2011-05-10 16:44:07 <B0g4r7> I just installed bitcoin 0.3.21.
3151 2011-05-10 16:44:10 <B0g4r7> It works a whole lot better than 0.3.20.
3152 2011-05-10 16:44:31 <B0g4r7> The block chain now propagates from my current node to my virgin node at a reasonable speed.
3153 2011-05-10 16:45:01 <sipa> i don't think there are any speed improvements in 0.3.20->0.3.21
3154 2011-05-10 16:45:18 <B0g4r7> There sure seems to be at least one connectivity improvement.
3155 2011-05-10 16:45:31 <B0g4r7> I was doubtful, but sure enough, it fixed the issue right up.
3156 2011-05-10 16:45:45 <B0g4r7> 0.3.20 would disconnect the peer after sending <50 blocks.
3157 2011-05-10 16:45:57 <B0g4r7> (on OS X)
3158 2011-05-10 16:46:22 <diki> i dont know who 1NBG8sqSh632Fa81HRm39tsMEvmgpU9rgZ is but he is making a lot of requests for 0.01
3159 2011-05-10 16:46:35 <diki> spamming the network and delaying everything
3160 2011-05-10 16:46:52 <B0g4r7> It also displays my wallet balance properly to 8 decimal places, where .20 truncated it to two.
3161 2011-05-10 16:47:10 luke-jr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3162 2011-05-10 16:47:28 luke-jr has joined
3163 2011-05-10 16:47:50 eao has joined
3164 2011-05-10 16:48:24 <jaromil> oh, OKKEY -I. fixed!
3165 2011-05-10 16:48:38 <BlueMatt> what was the actual problem?
3166 2011-05-10 16:48:41 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i think (wild guess) is a name clash between bitcoin headers and boost
3167 2011-05-10 16:48:47 <BlueMatt> or did you just remove -I.
3168 2011-05-10 16:48:52 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
3169 2011-05-10 16:49:00 <jaromil> i remove -I. from DEFAULT_INCLUDES in configure.ac
3170 2011-05-10 16:49:07 <jaromil> i'm doing all clean
3171 2011-05-10 16:49:09 <BlueMatt> fair enough
3172 2011-05-10 16:49:20 <jaromil> i mean i don't add cruft i just find things and fix them in confgiure.ac
3173 2011-05-10 16:49:30 <jaromil> i must say it's getting pretty much into the guts of autoconf
3174 2011-05-10 16:50:05 <jaromil> ok i guess is all for now, will see what's the next error, close and run for my well deserved beer
3175 2011-05-10 16:50:16 <BlueMatt> is it on gighub?
3176 2011-05-10 16:50:19 <BlueMatt> git*
3177 2011-05-10 16:50:19 <jaromil> i guess i'll choose a raging bitch (rogue brewery)
3178 2011-05-10 16:50:21 <jaromil> oh ok
3179 2011-05-10 16:50:26 <jaromil> lemme push current state then
3180 2011-05-10 16:50:32 <jaromil> so you can look at the fixes
3181 2011-05-10 16:50:36 <BlueMatt> thanks
3182 2011-05-10 16:50:50 <jaromil> test but please don't merge this, i need to rebase and document
3183 2011-05-10 16:51:12 <BlueMatt> I dont think that is too big a problem atm...the sed script is still in there
3184 2011-05-10 16:51:38 <jaromil> also please re-test normal compilation
3185 2011-05-10 16:52:03 <BlueMatt> will do
3186 2011-05-10 16:52:23 maikmerten has joined
3187 2011-05-10 16:52:38 <jaromil> ok pushed into the pull request
3188 2011-05-10 16:52:43 <BlueMatt> alright
3189 2011-05-10 16:52:58 <diki> ;;rate rasengan 1
3190 2011-05-10 16:52:58 <gribble> Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user rasengan has been recorded.
3191 2011-05-10 16:53:58 <jaromil> and FYI i'm now going for this beer http://microbrewster.blogspot.com/2011/03/flying-dog-raging-bitch.html
3192 2011-05-10 16:54:01 <jaromil> hell yea
3193 2011-05-10 16:54:03 <jaromil> bbl
3194 2011-05-10 16:54:10 <BlueMatt> have fun
3195 2011-05-10 16:55:04 <jaromil> oh just closing i see there is a -ptread flag too much at linking
3196 2011-05-10 16:55:09 <jaromil> but it goes until there
3197 2011-05-10 16:55:13 <jaromil> will see later
3198 2011-05-10 16:55:16 <jaromil> bye
3199 2011-05-10 16:55:20 <BlueMatt> bye
3200 2011-05-10 16:55:54 * diki is off to try and compile push pool again
3201 2011-05-10 16:55:57 Teslah has joined
3202 2011-05-10 16:56:23 * diki thinks this time the force is with him
3203 2011-05-10 16:58:05 <BlueMatt> jaromil: just fyi, works perfectly here if you remove -lmthreads and -pthread
3204 2011-05-10 16:58:12 <BlueMatt> though upnp needs to be looked at
3205 2011-05-10 16:58:41 <Ratt> upnp is broken for compiling from git. I had to comment out the ifdefs to get it to compile.
3206 2011-05-10 16:58:50 <BlueMatt> Ratt: you are doing it wrong
3207 2011-05-10 16:58:56 <BlueMatt> read the build instructions
3208 2011-05-10 16:59:33 <Ratt> Which would be what?
3209 2011-05-10 16:59:55 <Ratt> I mean, what as opposed to what I already have done?
3210 2011-05-10 16:59:55 llama has joined
3211 2011-05-10 17:00:12 <Ratt> USE_UPNP=0 results in a failed build.
3212 2011-05-10 17:00:22 <BlueMatt> USE_UPNP=0 mean build with upnp, with it off by default
3213 2011-05-10 17:00:23 <wumpus> Ratt: comment out the USE_PNP line in the makefile
3214 2011-05-10 17:00:28 <BlueMatt> wumpus: also wrong
3215 2011-05-10 17:00:34 <Ratt> wumpus: That's what I did
3216 2011-05-10 17:00:36 <BlueMatt> make -f makefile.unix USE_UPNP=
3217 2011-05-10 17:00:41 <wumpus> worked fine for me
3218 2011-05-10 17:00:41 mmoya has joined
3219 2011-05-10 17:00:43 <BlueMatt> and it works prefectly, no fancy commenting and such
3220 2011-05-10 17:01:02 kika has joined
3221 2011-05-10 17:01:06 <Ratt> BlueMatt: So your contention is that you need to explicitly specify an variable to get it to compile? And you think that's proper?
3222 2011-05-10 17:01:22 <BlueMatt> no, you should have the required libs
3223 2011-05-10 17:01:22 <wumpus> or just install the upnp library
3224 2011-05-10 17:01:23 <Ratt> If it needs USE_UPNP= to compile, it should be default.
3225 2011-05-10 17:01:31 <kika> what if i have a miner taht solves block but doesnt include any transactions on it ? the block will still be considered valid?
3226 2011-05-10 17:01:33 <BlueMatt> by default, it needs upnp
3227 2011-05-10 17:01:40 <BlueMatt> kika: yep
3228 2011-05-10 17:01:50 <kika> and the block will be incorporated on the main chain?
3229 2011-05-10 17:01:51 <BlueMatt> but that offers you no advantage
3230 2011-05-10 17:02:00 <BlueMatt> yea, clients just take it as another block
3231 2011-05-10 17:02:09 <BlueMatt> but you dong gain/lose anything by adding txes
3232 2011-05-10 17:02:09 <sipa> does autotools autodetect the presence of miniupnp?
3233 2011-05-10 17:02:15 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes
3234 2011-05-10 17:02:21 <sipa> nice
3235 2011-05-10 17:02:23 <kika> BlueMatt: which advantage? transactions fees? ill still get the coinbase transaction, right ?
3236 2011-05-10 17:02:30 <sipa> yes
3237 2011-05-10 17:02:44 <BlueMatt> well yea, tx fees, but you dont lose anything by not including non-feed txes
3238 2011-05-10 17:02:54 <BlueMatt> its not really any extra effort on your client's part
3239 2011-05-10 17:03:30 <kika> BlueMatt: if i want my client to exclude all the txs, do you think it will be easier for me to modify it to do so?
3240 2011-05-10 17:03:41 <Kiba> w00t
3241 2011-05-10 17:03:46 <Kiba> 32 bitcents a day
3242 2011-05-10 17:04:05 <BlueMatt> kika: yea probably, but why?
3243 2011-05-10 17:04:22 <kika> BlueMatt: just wondering i want to understand better how bitcoin works :
3244 2011-05-10 17:04:33 <kika> :)
3245 2011-05-10 17:04:48 <BlueMatt> do it on testnet ;)
3246 2011-05-10 17:05:14 <kika> BlueMatt: do you know which bitcoin files i need to touch to exclude all txs?
3247 2011-05-10 17:05:46 <BlueMatt> no idea, start with getwork in rpc.cpp and trace back till you find the tx stuff
3248 2011-05-10 17:05:59 <kika> BlueMatt: okay thxs
3249 2011-05-10 17:06:37 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
3250 2011-05-10 17:06:38 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 51797305.5898 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 3 hours, 37 minutes, and 33 seconds
3251 2011-05-10 17:06:54 <sipa> kika: AcceptToMemoryPool
3252 2011-05-10 17:06:57 <sipa> in main.cpp
3253 2011-05-10 17:06:57 <BlueMatt> nice, does you pool still reject all non-fee txes?
3254 2011-05-10 17:07:05 <kika> sipa: okay thxs!
3255 2011-05-10 17:07:11 <BlueMatt> or you could do MemoryPool
3256 2011-05-10 17:07:20 <kika> BlueMatt: ?
3257 2011-05-10 17:07:28 <BlueMatt> I was thinking still be a good node and relay, but that works too
3258 2011-05-10 17:07:33 <jgarzik> kika: why are you trying to exclude tx's?
3259 2011-05-10 17:07:46 <jgarzik> kika: that's really the wrong thing to do
3260 2011-05-10 17:07:53 <kika> jgarzik: just wondering if its possible
3261 2011-05-10 17:08:01 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: hes just playing around
3262 2011-05-10 17:08:07 <kika> jgarzik: why wrong thing?
3263 2011-05-10 17:08:14 <jgarzik> kika: it's clearly bad for the network
3264 2011-05-10 17:08:33 <kika> when i generate a block or send a tx my IP is recordered right ? how can i make it invisible?
3265 2011-05-10 17:08:35 <jgarzik> so hopefully BlueMatt and others won't just provide a roadmap there :)
3266 2011-05-10 17:08:47 <jgarzik> kika: incorrect
3267 2011-05-10 17:08:51 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: sorry
3268 2011-05-10 17:09:18 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: that's in the realm of "it's possible, but if you are going to do something like that, you already should know what you're doing"
3269 2011-05-10 17:09:37 <kika> jgarzik: i sent some coins the other day to a guy and the guy has able to use getReceivedByAdress on his bitcoind or something like that to see the IP i sent from, how come ?
3270 2011-05-10 17:09:43 <BlueMatt> fair enough
3271 2011-05-10 17:09:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not all
3272 2011-05-10 17:10:05 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah, ok I thought that was just a rumor
3273 2011-05-10 17:10:15 <diki> is wxwidgets easily implementable?
3274 2011-05-10 17:10:20 llama has quit (Quit: llama)
3275 2011-05-10 17:10:27 <BlueMatt> diki: implementable?
3276 2011-05-10 17:10:37 <diki> is it easy to use for...beginners
3277 2011-05-10 17:10:46 <wumpus> use Qt use Qt use Qt
3278 2011-05-10 17:10:54 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: some of the txn acceptance policies are changing soon, but wait for the announcement
3279 2011-05-10 17:10:57 <diki> qt sucks
3280 2011-05-10 17:11:01 <diki> i used it once for symbian
3281 2011-05-10 17:11:05 <luke-jr> diki: wx sucks
3282 2011-05-10 17:11:07 <B0g4r7> I've certainly heard a lot of moaning and groaning about it.
3283 2011-05-10 17:11:17 <diki> b0g: about?
3284 2011-05-10 17:11:20 <wumpus> it's great for beginners too
3285 2011-05-10 17:11:26 <B0g4r7> (wx)
3286 2011-05-10 17:11:28 <luke-jr> Qt is ideal
3287 2011-05-10 17:11:36 <BlueMatt> yea wx pretty much sucks, Im hoping that qt branch gets pullreq'd soon
3288 2011-05-10 17:11:37 <B0g4r7> About wxwidgets in general.
3289 2011-05-10 17:11:52 <wumpus> trolltech/nokia really did a good job, and also the widgets are native on all platforms just like wx
3290 2011-05-10 17:12:06 <luke-jr> wumpus: except Windows Phone 7
3291 2011-05-10 17:12:14 <B0g4r7> I'm hoping the gui gets seperated from the engine soon.
3292 2011-05-10 17:12:15 <wumpus> ok, except windows phone 7 :P
3293 2011-05-10 17:12:22 <BlueMatt> who the f cares about windows phone?
3294 2011-05-10 17:12:37 <sipa> people who have a windows phone, maybe
3295 2011-05-10 17:12:39 <luke-jr> wumpus: and not "just like wx"; wx is not native for me
3296 2011-05-10 17:12:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: so...the one person in the world
3297 2011-05-10 17:12:51 <jgarzik> kika: that is a bitcoin address, not an IP address
3298 2011-05-10 17:12:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: i know some (weird people...)
3299 2011-05-10 17:13:00 <wumpus> wx is supposed to be native on all platforms, thought that was the reason it was created in the first place, but I might be wrong
3300 2011-05-10 17:13:02 <B0g4r7> Windows phone is a "special" case.
3301 2011-05-10 17:13:11 <Diablo-D3> short bus special, sure
3302 2011-05-10 17:13:16 <luke-jr> wumpus: Qt was already native on all platforms. and wx is still not to date.
3303 2011-05-10 17:13:18 <BlueMatt> sipa: wow you actually know a couple...I know nonw
3304 2011-05-10 17:13:19 <BlueMatt> none*
3305 2011-05-10 17:13:23 <ArtForz> yep, "special needs" special
3306 2011-05-10 17:13:30 <wumpus> luke-jr: ok
3307 2011-05-10 17:13:30 <kika> jgarzik: nopes the guy was able to tell me my IP
3308 2011-05-10 17:13:31 <luke-jr> wumpus: wx is not native on KDE, which is pretty much the only platform I care about
3309 2011-05-10 17:13:48 <wumpus> Qt manages to look native on gnome too
3310 2011-05-10 17:13:58 <luke-jr> yes, Qt supports GTK+
3311 2011-05-10 17:14:07 <jgarzik> kika: it's not recorded in the block chain, so something else is going on, i.e. looking at your email headers, or you're visiting a web page, etc.
3312 2011-05-10 17:14:07 <wumpus> didn't know that :)
3313 2011-05-10 17:14:12 <BlueMatt> kika: 200.49.66.41...IRC
3314 2011-05-10 17:14:24 nefario has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3315 2011-05-10 17:14:24 <ArtForz> lol
3316 2011-05-10 17:14:26 <kika> jgarzik: maybe because i used his site.... he recordered the IP maybe, he generated a random bticoin address and then i had to send to that address
3317 2011-05-10 17:14:36 <jgarzik> kika: yep
3318 2011-05-10 17:14:39 <BlueMatt> kika: that too
3319 2011-05-10 17:14:41 <kika> jgarzik: true :
3320 2011-05-10 17:14:52 <wumpus> makes it even more awesome than I thought
3321 2011-05-10 17:15:20 <luke-jr> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index
3322 2011-05-10 17:15:25 <luke-jr> https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7847.0
3323 2011-05-10 17:15:28 <Diablo-D3> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7846.msg114524#msg114524
3324 2011-05-10 17:15:28 <luke-jr> someone ban this idiot
3325 2011-05-10 17:15:30 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck?
3326 2011-05-10 17:15:38 nefario has joined
3327 2011-05-10 17:15:43 <luke-jr> maybe send his IP to the FBI
3328 2011-05-10 17:15:53 <kika> so what are other uses people is thinking are reasonable to use the block chain for other than record transactions?
3329 2011-05-10 17:15:53 <Diablo-D3> dude
3330 2011-05-10 17:15:56 <Diablo-D3> send me to his house
3331 2011-05-10 17:15:58 bk128_ has joined
3332 2011-05-10 17:15:59 bk128_ has quit (Changing host)
3333 2011-05-10 17:15:59 bk128_ has joined
3334 2011-05-10 17:16:03 <Diablo-D3> I will rape his mother infront of him
3335 2011-05-10 17:16:03 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: good idea
3336 2011-05-10 17:16:09 <Diablo-D3> and then his sister
3337 2011-05-10 17:16:12 <Diablo-D3> and maybe his dog
3338 2011-05-10 17:16:13 <BlueMatt> who can ban on smf?
3339 2011-05-10 17:16:17 <BlueMatt> please ban that guy
3340 2011-05-10 17:16:37 <luke-jr> and share his IP publicly
3341 2011-05-10 17:16:43 <luke-jr> especially in OTC
3342 2011-05-10 17:16:43 <sipa> kika: imho, none :)
3343 2011-05-10 17:16:55 <Diablo-D3> rocket propelled chainsaw, seriously.
3344 2011-05-10 17:17:01 <jgarzik> sipa: indeed :)
3345 2011-05-10 17:17:17 <kika> sipa: none?
3346 2011-05-10 17:17:31 bk128 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3347 2011-05-10 17:17:31 bk128_ is now known as bk128
3348 2011-05-10 17:17:38 [DusT]1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3349 2011-05-10 17:17:39 <sipa> it's meant to record bitcoin transactions, and nothing else
3350 2011-05-10 17:18:10 <Diablo-D3> dude
3351 2011-05-10 17:18:12 sethsethseth____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3352 2011-05-10 17:18:14 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: dude
3353 2011-05-10 17:18:15 <Diablo-D3> the fucker
3354 2011-05-10 17:18:15 <kika> so basically the current bitcoin client doesnt requires a minimum number of transactions to be included in a block for the block to be considered valid?
3355 2011-05-10 17:18:18 <Diablo-D3> doesnt even accept bitcoiuns
3356 2011-05-10 17:18:21 <luke-jr> LOL
3357 2011-05-10 17:18:28 <sipa> kika: no
3358 2011-05-10 17:18:29 <BlueMatt> wheres theymos when you need him
3359 2011-05-10 17:18:33 <ArtForz> kika: no, why would it?
3360 2011-05-10 17:18:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the posts are gone
3361 2011-05-10 17:18:40 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: account deleted
3362 2011-05-10 17:18:43 <jgarzik> tcatm: it would be nice if hashrate pie chart included Ghash/sec numbers
3363 2011-05-10 17:18:45 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: what IP?
3364 2011-05-10 17:18:48 <BlueMatt> ah, thanks gavinandresen
3365 2011-05-10 17:19:02 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: i dunno, didn't bother looking
3366 2011-05-10 17:19:07 <kika> ArtForz: what if someone with lots of hash power just includes blocks on the main chain that contains no transactions but the coinbase transaction?
3367 2011-05-10 17:19:08 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: kinda important to -otc
3368 2011-05-10 17:19:12 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3369 2011-05-10 17:19:14 <jgarzik> tcatm: Eligiusoiusness (50.4), slush (200), deepbit(1000), etc.
3370 2011-05-10 17:19:18 <kika> ArtForz: then transactions will slow down on the network i think
3371 2011-05-10 17:19:24 <luke-jr> kika: then bitcoin gets slow
3372 2011-05-10 17:19:27 <ArtForz> yep
3373 2011-05-10 17:19:38 <luke-jr> jgarzik: O.o
3374 2011-05-10 17:19:42 <phantomcircuit> kika, there is little to no reason to do that
3375 2011-05-10 17:19:43 <ArtForz> so it's self-defeating for a miner to do that
3376 2011-05-10 17:19:59 <jgarzik> kika: satoshi specifically designed the block header to be a fixed length, so that it does not cost more hashing power to process more transactions.
3377 2011-05-10 17:20:03 <sipa> it costs the miner nothing (except for verifying) to add the tx
3378 2011-05-10 17:20:04 <kika> ArtForz: why self defeating?
3379 2011-05-10 17:20:04 sethsethseth____ has joined
3380 2011-05-10 17:20:15 sethsethseth____ is now known as sethsethseth
3381 2011-05-10 17:20:15 <jgarzik> kika: without users, a miner's coins are worthless.
3382 2011-05-10 17:20:19 <luke-jr> kika: because if bitcoin is slow, it devalues the currency
3383 2011-05-10 17:20:21 <jgarzik> kika: no users, without useful TX processintg
3384 2011-05-10 17:20:26 <ArtForz> ^
3385 2011-05-10 17:20:39 <kika> i see
3386 2011-05-10 17:20:54 <kika> and why the bitcoin client doesnt include a minimum number of transactions to consider a block valid?
3387 2011-05-10 17:21:04 FabianB has joined
3388 2011-05-10 17:21:05 <luke-jr> â¦
3389 2011-05-10 17:21:06 <kika> that way, the network would be faster processing transactions
3390 2011-05-10 17:21:11 <ArtForz> errr... because that'd be completely trivial to bypass?
3391 2011-05-10 17:21:18 <sipa> what if there are no transactions?
3392 2011-05-10 17:21:22 <sipa> and even if there are no tx's
3393 2011-05-10 17:21:28 <sipa> you still want new blocks
3394 2011-05-10 17:21:30 * luke-jr makes tx spam to gen blocks then
3395 2011-05-10 17:21:31 <ArtForz> the same "attack" still works, just create a few tx-to-self to include in your blocks
3396 2011-05-10 17:21:38 <sipa> to strengthen the tx's in earlier blocks
3397 2011-05-10 17:21:40 <gavinandresen> Yeah-- "Oh boy, I have all these coinbase transactions... that I can't spend because all the other miners are only confirming their own coinbase transactions"
3398 2011-05-10 17:21:57 <diki> yo jgarzik
3399 2011-05-10 17:21:58 Strom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3400 2011-05-10 17:22:08 Strom has joined
3401 2011-05-10 17:22:31 <gavinandresen> I'm tempted to implement a "shun blocks that don't include a significant fraction of memory pool transactions" patch.
3402 2011-05-10 17:22:45 <diki> so how do i fix the libcurl_check_config thing? i removed it from the autogen.sh file but i got an error later stating it's not there
3403 2011-05-10 17:22:45 <kika> ArtForz: but maybe clients can check and not count tx-to-self ?
3404 2011-05-10 17:22:45 <diki> do i need libcurl-devel?
3405 2011-05-10 17:23:02 <ArtForz> kika: how do you know which adresses belong to the miner? you don't.
3406 2011-05-10 17:23:05 <kika> ArtForz: maybe clients can just require a minimum number of no tx-to-self txs for the block to be considred valid?
3407 2011-05-10 17:23:17 <gavinandresen> kika: there is no self
3408 2011-05-10 17:23:35 <kika> gavinandresen: i see
3409 2011-05-10 17:23:37 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: that would be outright evil
3410 2011-05-10 17:23:44 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: why?
3411 2011-05-10 17:23:53 <ArtForz> gavinandresen: getting philosophical?
3412 2011-05-10 17:23:53 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it prevents miners from choosing their own policies
3413 2011-05-10 17:24:09 <kika> so basically this network is weak if someone with 60% of the network hash power just solves blocks without include txs on them
3414 2011-05-10 17:24:13 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: if you're going to be an asshole, I'm going to work to shun you.
3415 2011-05-10 17:24:36 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: miners setting their own rules is part of the system
3416 2011-05-10 17:24:38 <TD> gavinandresen: not sure i agree with that
3417 2011-05-10 17:24:50 <phantomcircuit> kika, there is little to no reason to do that
3418 2011-05-10 17:24:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: dictating your own rules over everyone just makes you the Fed
3419 2011-05-10 17:24:58 <TD> gavinandresen: i think it's quite likely there'll be legitimate mining models that involve not including every tx in future
3420 2011-05-10 17:25:06 <TD> it also feels flaky in the presence of large networks and high latency
3421 2011-05-10 17:25:14 <ArtForz> yeah, that sounds... problematic
3422 2011-05-10 17:25:15 <gavinandresen> TD: that's why I said 'significant fraction of memory pool transactions' ....
3423 2011-05-10 17:25:19 blablaa has joined
3424 2011-05-10 17:25:24 <Kiba> no need to get angry, gav Insti
3425 2011-05-10 17:25:29 <Kiba> gavinandresen:
3426 2011-05-10 17:25:39 <TD> right
3427 2011-05-10 17:25:41 <gavinandresen> 0% would be insignificant....
3428 2011-05-10 17:25:50 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: in other words, if I see 1000 tx spam, you're going to shun me for not including any
3429 2011-05-10 17:25:59 <gavinandresen> (and maybe it'd be X% of memory pool transactions that have reasonable priority and fees and etc etc)
3430 2011-05-10 17:26:02 <TD> i guess new nodes would have to download the memory pool before mining, on startup
3431 2011-05-10 17:26:06 <Kiba> don't fix thing that ain't broke
3432 2011-05-10 17:26:12 <TD> otherwise newly started nodes risk diverging
3433 2011-05-10 17:26:19 <ArtForz> yep
3434 2011-05-10 17:26:33 <Kiba> what's the cost of including transactions anyway?
3435 2011-05-10 17:26:35 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: also, everything is aimed at trying to avoid block chain forks right now
3436 2011-05-10 17:26:37 <TD> i'm not sure there's a big incentive for miners to mine empty blocks today. and if there is as inflation falls the incentive will fall too.
3437 2011-05-10 17:26:42 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, no miner has any incentive not to include transactions
3438 2011-05-10 17:26:44 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: you're talking about significantly increasing them
3439 2011-05-10 17:26:50 <ArtForz> Kiba: to the miner? pretty damn close to 0
3440 2011-05-10 17:27:44 <gavinandresen> I wouldn't implement it as a hard shun-- it'd be "I'm not going to work on top of your smelly, 1-transaction block. But if somebody else does...so be it."
3441 2011-05-10 17:27:48 <TD> there is a slight incentive to not include
3442 2011-05-10 17:27:55 <luke-jr> ArtForz: would you use a miner that "shuns" blocks using other policies?
3443 2011-05-10 17:28:02 <TD> processing transactions has a cost
3444 2011-05-10 17:28:06 <TD> storage, cpu, disk seeks
3445 2011-05-10 17:28:19 <sipa> is there a way in git to throw away part of a branch?
3446 2011-05-10 17:28:22 <TD> it's not significant today. in future it will be cheaper to run a miner that includes nothing
3447 2011-05-10 17:28:30 <TD> question is - cheap enough to be worth doing? not sure
3448 2011-05-10 17:28:45 <ArtForz> TD: which someone calculated to be about $0.0001/tx network-wide
3449 2011-05-10 17:29:04 <TD> right, it's not that big a deal but if there were to be thousands of txns per second, it'd add up
3450 2011-05-10 17:29:11 <TD> i think it was gavin who calculated that
3451 2011-05-10 17:29:18 <gavinandresen> Even a mild "If there is a block race, choose to work on the block that took the most transactions from the memory pool" would be a mild disincentive to creating 1-txn blocks
3452 2011-05-10 17:29:21 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
3453 2011-05-10 17:29:26 * TD isn't entirely sure about the figure ..... depends how the node is structured i think
3454 2011-05-10 17:29:31 <ArtForz> but yeah, I can see a possible "tragedy of the commons" sitation in the future
3455 2011-05-10 17:29:39 <ArtForz> +u
3456 2011-05-10 17:29:45 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: ignore the memory pool then
3457 2011-05-10 17:29:57 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: I can live with a "when there's a fork, prefer the one with the most transactions"
3458 2011-05-10 17:30:01 <TD> over time i think the memory pool will become the main shared resource, actually
3459 2011-05-10 17:30:05 <gavinandresen> luke-jr: can't, otherwise miners will stuff their generated blocks with txns-to-self
3460 2011-05-10 17:30:07 <luke-jr> or perhaps the amount of the txns should be considered too
3461 2011-05-10 17:30:10 <gavinandresen> (non-broadcast)
3462 2011-05-10 17:30:16 <TD> for many people in situations where there's already trust, you don't really need the block chain. voting by ip address is enough
3463 2011-05-10 17:30:21 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: they can do that anyway with broadcast
3464 2011-05-10 17:30:24 <diki> so guys i get gcc: @LIBCURL@ no such directory or file
3465 2011-05-10 17:30:34 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: maybe it's best to just leave it alone
3466 2011-05-10 17:30:35 <diki> i have installed libcurl
3467 2011-05-10 17:30:41 phantomcircuit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3468 2011-05-10 17:30:42 <TD> why should they pay fees? logically, fees and thus block inclusion would be related to the degree of trust and your counterparties ability/incentive to try network attacks
3469 2011-05-10 17:30:50 <TD> if you have absolute trust your fee should be zero
3470 2011-05-10 17:30:51 <luke-jr> any system will make it possible for miners to try to cheat it
3471 2011-05-10 17:30:59 <gavinandresen> I'm not planning on any of this unless/until it is necessary. Although there is at least one miner creating 1-txn blocks now.
3472 2011-05-10 17:31:22 phantomcircuit has joined
3473 2011-05-10 17:31:23 <ArtForz> gavinandresen: yep, and it seems to have quite a bit of hashrate
3474 2011-05-10 17:31:49 <gavinandresen> ArtForz: yup. block 123133 was the latest
3475 2011-05-10 17:32:10 <phantomcircuit> so someone is actually mining without including transactions?
3476 2011-05-10 17:32:13 <ArtForz> yep
3477 2011-05-10 17:32:15 <TD> it might be worth doing shunning in a different way
3478 2011-05-10 17:32:27 <TD> eg, tagging block broadcasts with the ip address it was seen from
3479 2011-05-10 17:32:30 <TD> then community blacklists
3480 2011-05-10 17:32:38 <gavinandresen> TD: suggestion? Could track that coinbase and drop it from the memory pool :-)
3481 2011-05-10 17:32:40 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, just ones without fees or any transaction?
3482 2011-05-10 17:32:46 <TD> heh
3483 2011-05-10 17:32:47 <ArtForz> phantomcircuit: without any tx
3484 2011-05-10 17:32:52 rli has joined
3485 2011-05-10 17:33:02 <TD> blacklisting miners rather than behavior allows for more flexibility
3486 2011-05-10 17:33:05 <ArtForz> and it appears to be a single node (or somethign behind a single node) creating a vast majority of them
3487 2011-05-10 17:33:18 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, meh, including tx without a fee amounts to charity basically
3488 2011-05-10 17:33:28 <phantomcircuit> if someone isn't interested in doing that then oh well someone else will
3489 2011-05-10 17:33:31 <TD> if people find a good use for the odd behavior, it doesn't rule that out
3490 2011-05-10 17:33:36 <gavinandresen> TD: tracking IPs seems like bad precedent. And easy to get around (proxy/tor)
3491 2011-05-10 17:33:45 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3492 2011-05-10 17:33:48 <wumpus> yeah we don't want a bitcoin police
3493 2011-05-10 17:34:02 <wumpus> punishing behaviour is much better than trying to rat out people
3494 2011-05-10 17:34:03 <BlueMatt> mm was proxying his blocks through a couple specific nodes
3495 2011-05-10 17:34:07 <TD> the entire reason for bitcoins design is to self police
3496 2011-05-10 17:34:28 <TD> well, maybe not IPs, but public keys etc. we discussed this before some time ago.
3497 2011-05-10 17:34:35 <TD> allowing miners to identify themselves via a proof of work
3498 2011-05-10 17:34:42 <TD> or whatever
3499 2011-05-10 17:35:04 <TD> no-tx guy might not even realize what he's doing, if something weird has gone wrong
3500 2011-05-10 17:35:23 <gavinandresen> Well, if no-tx-guy is listening: STOP IT
3501 2011-05-10 17:35:35 <gavinandresen> Don't make me write a patch.....
3502 2011-05-10 17:35:39 <wumpus> that's true, but in that case, banning him is not the appropriate response either
3503 2011-05-10 17:36:05 <TD> heh
3504 2011-05-10 17:36:07 <TD> right
3505 2011-05-10 17:36:13 <TD> we have no way to communicate with them
3506 2011-05-10 17:36:23 <diki> do i need libcurl4-devel or libcurl4-openssl-devel ?
3507 2011-05-10 17:36:35 <TD> in future i think miners will all be strongly identified but that's a tough sell today :)
3508 2011-05-10 17:36:58 <jrmithdobbs> whos' mining without including any txns?
3509 2011-05-10 17:37:05 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-251-227-61.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
3510 2011-05-10 17:37:08 <wumpus> right, so everyone using his GPU to mine will have to identify strongly? using real world id?
3511 2011-05-10 17:37:10 <B0g4r7> Excluding txs means you miss out on their fees.
3512 2011-05-10 17:37:35 <B0g4r7> Eventually fees will be all the incentive there is to mine.
3513 2011-05-10 17:37:39 <TD> nobody uses cpus to mine, right?
3514 2011-05-10 17:37:41 <TD> not anymore
3515 2011-05-10 17:37:50 <TD> not necessarily real world id
3516 2011-05-10 17:37:58 <wumpus> yeah but I mean, every john doe with a gaming machine can mine
3517 2011-05-10 17:38:00 <TD> just a way to get in touch would be fine
3518 2011-05-10 17:38:06 <wumpus> that's an incredible amount of paperwork
3519 2011-05-10 17:38:10 <ArtForz> TD: some people do, just not their own CPUs
3520 2011-05-10 17:38:13 <TD> well, *today* yes. but solo gpu mining is going to die too
3521 2011-05-10 17:38:21 <TD> eventually
3522 2011-05-10 17:38:25 <ArtForz> yep
3523 2011-05-10 17:38:26 <TD> i was thinking long term
3524 2011-05-10 17:38:28 <TD> like 5-10 years out
3525 2011-05-10 17:38:34 <TD> when miners are basically all companies or botnets
3526 2011-05-10 17:38:38 <jrmithdobbs> TD: i don't think it's going to die too soon
3527 2011-05-10 17:38:38 darin has quit (Disconnected by services)
3528 2011-05-10 17:38:42 <wumpus> yeah yeah everyone and everything is going to die, long term
3529 2011-05-10 17:38:49 <ArtForz> at the rate the network is growing, probably less than 2 years
3530 2011-05-10 17:38:52 <jrmithdobbs> TD: but solo mining off gpus where # of gpus is insignificant will
3531 2011-05-10 17:38:54 <TD> having an email address and/or a coinbase address that is < some low value (ie proof of work) doesn't seem big deal
3532 2011-05-10 17:39:01 <TD> jrmithdobbs: right, sorry, that's what i meant
3533 2011-05-10 17:39:10 <TD> some companies may well be using high end GPU clusters 5-10 yeras
3534 2011-05-10 17:39:19 <ArtForz> TD: too inefficient
3535 2011-05-10 17:39:29 <TD> yeah, maybe all ASICs
3536 2011-05-10 17:39:34 <TD> let's hope so :-)
3537 2011-05-10 17:39:40 <ArtForz> yup
3538 2011-05-10 17:39:46 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: efficient enough so long as there's still block payouts
3539 2011-05-10 17:39:55 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: wrong
3540 2011-05-10 17:39:57 <jrmithdobbs> once those are gone though, ya
3541 2011-05-10 17:40:03 <gavinandresen> I want a bitcoin-generating space heater.
3542 2011-05-10 17:40:12 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: not factoring efficiency improvements in gpus
3543 2011-05-10 17:40:23 <TD> yeah, that'd be cool. it'd be hard to explain to the purchaser why they get paid and what they might earn though
3544 2011-05-10 17:40:28 <TD> of course if you don't rev-share at all :)
3545 2011-05-10 17:40:29 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: which are rather... small
3546 2011-05-10 17:40:40 <wumpus> you can't predict the future anyway
3547 2011-05-10 17:40:51 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: last 18 months have been a pretty huge leap
3548 2011-05-10 17:41:08 <ArtForz> where?
3549 2011-05-10 17:41:14 <kika> is there a way to identify who solved a block ?
3550 2011-05-10 17:41:29 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: performance, eg, nvidia's teslas basically being obsolete by the time they offered them
3551 2011-05-10 17:41:44 <ArtForz> *maybe* a factor of 2 improvement over the last 18 months or so
3552 2011-05-10 17:41:46 <TD> kika: no. that's one of the problems we have today. rogue miners cannot be [a] contacted (if bening) nor [b] blacklisted (if malicious)
3553 2011-05-10 17:41:54 <jrmithdobbs> still better than moore's law
3554 2011-05-10 17:42:02 <jrmithdobbs> not a whole lot
3555 2011-05-10 17:42:03 <TD> kika: there are ways to do it that can preserve peoples privacy i think
3556 2011-05-10 17:42:07 <gavinandresen> kika: not unless you happen to be their ISP and they're not using TOR or an encrypted tunnel and you're monitoring all their bitcoin traffic
3557 2011-05-10 17:42:16 * TD is always amazed at how cryptography can let people have their cake and eat it
3558 2011-05-10 17:42:18 <wumpus> gavinandresen: I already have one, I turned it off though, too noisy and it's hot enough at the moment
3559 2011-05-10 17:42:19 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: i'm just playing devil's advocate to see what your arguments would be
3560 2011-05-10 17:42:33 <kika> is this chat beign recorder somewhere?
3561 2011-05-10 17:42:38 <kika> *recordered
3562 2011-05-10 17:42:41 <ArtForz> yes
3563 2011-05-10 17:42:44 <jrmithdobbs> yes
3564 2011-05-10 17:42:44 <wumpus> kika: yes, on my harddisk :P
3565 2011-05-10 17:42:58 <kika> i mean on the internet so i can access it later ?
3566 2011-05-10 17:43:02 <gavinandresen> kika: http://veritas.maximilianeum.ch/bitcoin/irc/logs/
3567 2011-05-10 17:43:09 <ArtForz> read the fine topic?
3568 2011-05-10 17:43:52 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: general purpose hardware always loses to special purpose hardware, especially for efficiency
3569 2011-05-10 17:44:08 <kika> thxs
3570 2011-05-10 17:44:12 <jrmithdobbs> well yes
3571 2011-05-10 17:44:34 <ArtForz> so the question is "can you have enough scale to make producing said hadrware cheap enough to compete with COTS stuff"
3572 2011-05-10 17:44:36 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3573 2011-05-10 17:44:41 <TD> yeah
3574 2011-05-10 17:45:00 darin_ has joined
3575 2011-05-10 17:45:03 <TD> there's presumably a btc:usd price point that can be quite accurately calculated for when it makes sense to build [structured] ASIC clusters
3576 2011-05-10 17:45:13 kika has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3577 2011-05-10 17:45:22 <ArtForz> yep
3578 2011-05-10 17:45:23 <TD> ArtForz is doing it today, but got the impression it's partly for fun rather than purely economic
3579 2011-05-10 17:45:35 <TD> i didn't hear of anyone else trying yet
3580 2011-05-10 17:45:37 <ArtForz> TD: it's actually pretty much a dead-end
3581 2011-05-10 17:45:44 <TD> too expensive?
3582 2011-05-10 17:45:51 <ArtForz> yep
3583 2011-05-10 17:46:18 <ArtForz> TCO over 12 months is about the same as GPUs
3584 2011-05-10 17:46:27 nefario has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
3585 2011-05-10 17:46:30 <ArtForz> not including assembly ...
3586 2011-05-10 17:46:33 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3587 2011-05-10 17:46:36 <TD> ah, was about to ask about labor costs
3588 2011-05-10 17:46:53 <ArtForz> and thats assuming I build another 60Ghps
3589 2011-05-10 17:47:04 <TD> not going to bother?
3590 2011-05-10 17:47:32 <ArtForz> eats up way too much time
3591 2011-05-10 17:48:06 <sethsethseth> omg what in the f is going on with the rate
3592 2011-05-10 17:48:13 <wumpus> difficulty is going through the roof anyway
3593 2011-05-10 17:48:22 <ArtForz> wumpus: not really
3594 2011-05-10 17:48:47 <ArtForz> difficulty/$ is still close to lowest in months
3595 2011-05-10 17:49:00 <jrmithdobbs> aye
3596 2011-05-10 17:49:07 <wumpus> even if it is worth it now, I wouldn't want to gamble too much on it still being profitable in a few months, let alone a year
3597 2011-05-10 17:49:25 <ArtForz> wumpus: no problem, plenty other people are
3598 2011-05-10 17:49:28 LightRider has joined
3599 2011-05-10 17:49:32 <TD> ArtForz: makes sense. not much efficiency improvement lately
3600 2011-05-10 17:49:41 ErrydayimGenerat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3601 2011-05-10 17:50:02 <ArtForz> at the current rate it doesn't have to be this profitable for months, a few weeks are plenty
3602 2011-05-10 17:50:07 rli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3603 2011-05-10 17:50:10 ErrydayimGenerat has joined
3604 2011-05-10 17:50:33 <mrb_> I wish Raulo would update http://bitcoin.atspace.com/income.html
3605 2011-05-10 17:50:39 <ArtForz> yeah :/
3606 2011-05-10 17:50:44 <mrb_> nice little practical chart
3607 2011-05-10 17:50:47 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
3608 2011-05-10 17:50:55 <ArtForz> I liked his graph better than the oversmoothed one
3609 2011-05-10 17:51:08 <sipa> actually, i've been gathering mtgox stats for a few months now
3610 2011-05-10 17:51:22 * sipa could try to add such a graph himself
3611 2011-05-10 17:51:32 Ratt has quit ()
3612 2011-05-10 17:51:42 <ArtForz> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7427.0
3613 2011-05-10 17:52:28 <sipa> ow nice, didn't see those
3614 2011-05-10 17:52:36 Ratt has joined
3615 2011-05-10 17:52:56 <ArtForz> decent, but a bit way too much smoothing for my taste
3616 2011-05-10 17:53:35 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3617 2011-05-10 17:54:54 <ArtForz> 5.20 ...
3618 2011-05-10 17:55:04 <sipa> yes
3619 2011-05-10 17:56:41 <comboy> 0.4 was so fucking high
3620 2011-05-10 17:57:22 <sipa> when i first heard about bitcoin, they were 0.2
3621 2011-05-10 17:57:33 <ArtForz> 0.04
3622 2011-05-10 17:57:52 <diki> 0,04 cents?
3623 2011-05-10 17:58:03 <ArtForz> no, 0.04 usd
3624 2011-05-10 17:58:05 <wumpus> sipa: yep, same for me, they were just approaching 0.2
3625 2011-05-10 17:58:07 <diki> same thing
3626 2011-05-10 17:58:17 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3627 2011-05-10 17:58:18 <ArtForz> diki: nope
3628 2011-05-10 17:58:44 grbgout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3629 2011-05-10 17:58:46 <diki> it's all the same to me
3630 2011-05-10 17:58:54 <sipa> there is a nice talk with verizon customer support about the difference between 0.05 cent and 0.05 dollar
3631 2011-05-10 17:58:58 <ArtForz> yep
3632 2011-05-10 17:59:14 <ArtForz> the difference is pretty close to 2 orders of magnitude ;)
3633 2011-05-10 17:59:30 <sipa> remarkably close, i'd say
3634 2011-05-10 17:59:58 <ArtForz> hehehe
3635 2011-05-10 18:01:12 <comboy> I remember ArtForz talking about changing ratio to keep less bitcoins that he planned because price went so much up (that was about ~$1), you managed to keep the rest since then?
3636 2011-05-10 18:01:25 taco_the_paco has joined
3637 2011-05-10 18:01:31 <ArtForz> nah
3638 2011-05-10 18:02:07 <comboy> heh, I've sold most at 2.6
3639 2011-05-10 18:03:50 <comboy> I wish it would be more like sit and think, it seems completely unpredictable right now, some big guy decides to buy or sell and thet's it, not enugh big guys to be predictable
3640 2011-05-10 18:04:24 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3641 2011-05-10 18:04:47 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3642 2011-05-10 18:04:48 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.2,"low":3.8,"vol":42950,"buy":5.0703,"sell":5.1021,"last":5.1023}}
3643 2011-05-10 18:04:51 <gjs278> holy shit
3644 2011-05-10 18:04:52 <wumpus> predictable is boring :P
3645 2011-05-10 18:06:25 davidg has joined
3646 2011-05-10 18:07:32 TheKid has joined
3647 2011-05-10 18:07:32 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
3648 2011-05-10 18:07:32 TheKid has joined
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3650 2011-05-10 18:07:36 <eps1> i expected this rally to have ended by now
3651 2011-05-10 18:07:45 <eps1> who is buying these bitcoins?
3652 2011-05-10 18:07:49 <TheKid> I woke up and was confused
3653 2011-05-10 18:08:04 <mrb_> eps1: some guy with play money
3654 2011-05-10 18:08:06 <TheKid> eps1: somoene who sees a guture for btc?
3655 2011-05-10 18:08:08 <wumpus> rick bored kids
3656 2011-05-10 18:08:43 <wumpus> and russians
3657 2011-05-10 18:08:45 <BlueMatt> Im with wumpus rich bored kids are always at fault
3658 2011-05-10 18:08:49 <comboy> Y U NO SELL YET SATOSHI ;)
3659 2011-05-10 18:09:01 <eps1> my bitcoins are currently worth roughly half my monthly salary
3660 2011-05-10 18:09:09 <BlueMatt> if satoshi cared about bitcoin's future he'd keep the price down
3661 2011-05-10 18:09:23 <comboy> he what?
3662 2011-05-10 18:09:37 <wumpus> satoshi is not really active with bitcoins
3663 2011-05-10 18:09:55 <BlueMatt> eps1: mine are worth my yearly salary, but that might be because I have no regular yearly salary
3664 2011-05-10 18:10:53 <wumpus> then again, we don't need some kind of fed for the bitcoin 'keeping the price down'.. isn't this a big experiment that we can do without such a thing
3665 2011-05-10 18:10:55 echelon has joined
3666 2011-05-10 18:11:38 ArtForzZz has joined
3667 2011-05-10 18:12:11 <eps1> indeed
3668 2011-05-10 18:12:44 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3669 2011-05-10 18:12:49 <eps1> although at the moment i am less interested in the success of bitcoin (i do want it to succeed) than when i should cash out
3670 2011-05-10 18:13:19 Ratt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3671 2011-05-10 18:13:21 manifold_ has joined
3672 2011-05-10 18:14:36 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3673 2011-05-10 18:15:11 dbitcoin has joined
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3675 2011-05-10 18:16:05 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3676 2011-05-10 18:16:10 <BlueMatt> tcatm: are you planning on updating bitcoin-js-remote for <0.01?
3677 2011-05-10 18:18:16 jostmey has joined
3678 2011-05-10 18:20:30 [DusT] has joined
3679 2011-05-10 18:24:03 Lambdanaut has joined
3680 2011-05-10 18:28:32 eternal1 has joined
3681 2011-05-10 18:30:32 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, lol
3682 2011-05-10 18:30:43 <BlueMatt> ?
3683 2011-05-10 18:30:47 <phantomcircuit> ArtForzZz, have you considered trying to stabilize the price?
3684 2011-05-10 18:30:50 <phantomcircuit> <BlueMatt> eps1: mine are worth my yearly salary, but that might be because I have no regular yearly salary
3685 2011-05-10 18:30:55 <BlueMatt> ah
3686 2011-05-10 18:33:54 manifold_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3687 2011-05-10 18:34:47 <diki> can anyone tell me why the f*** i cant install push pool
3688 2011-05-10 18:35:02 <phantomcircuit> probably not
3689 2011-05-10 18:35:03 <phantomcircuit> heh
3690 2011-05-10 18:35:11 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, ^
3691 2011-05-10 18:35:17 <diki> it requires libcurl..i downloaded all kinds of libcurl
3692 2011-05-10 18:35:23 <BlueMatt> maybe luke-jr
3693 2011-05-10 18:35:25 <diki> it just doesnt....want...to install
3694 2011-05-10 18:35:36 <gjs278> you have to install tonal first
3695 2011-05-10 18:36:07 manifold_ has joined
3696 2011-05-10 18:36:54 <diki> i am downloading everything related to libmemcached to see if it resolves the memcache problem at least
3697 2011-05-10 18:37:18 <BlueMatt> testing everything != figuring it out
3698 2011-05-10 18:38:06 <diki> well since jgarzik has not replied to any of my questions...i am doing everthing i can
3699 2011-05-10 18:38:15 Dark_Ghost has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3700 2011-05-10 18:38:37 <cosurgi> ;;bc,mtgox
3701 2011-05-10 18:38:37 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.2,"low":3.8,"vol":44272,"buy":4.9502,"sell":5.0396,"last":4.9502}}
3702 2011-05-10 18:38:41 <cosurgi> ;;bc,stats
3703 2011-05-10 18:38:41 <ArtForzZz> so... not much. *dons asbestos suit*
3704 2011-05-10 18:38:44 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|stay at it 16 hours in a row.
3705 2011-05-10 18:38:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123150 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1841 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 8 hours, 29 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 216370.06096567
3706 2011-05-10 18:38:53 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|worked for m
3707 2011-05-10 18:39:02 <cosurgi> wtf....
3708 2011-05-10 18:39:02 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|me*
3709 2011-05-10 18:39:34 * ArtForzZz hands kreal| a "works on my box" shirt
3710 2011-05-10 18:39:39 <phantomcircuit> ArtForzZz, have you considered trying to stabilize the price?
3711 2011-05-10 18:39:55 <ArtForzZz> phantomcircuit: yes, and I see zero reason
3712 2011-05-10 18:40:03 <phantomcircuit> ok then
3713 2011-05-10 18:40:08 <phantomcircuit> was just wondering
3714 2011-05-10 18:40:12 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|http://gbyte.dk
3715 2011-05-10 18:40:14 <ArtForzZz> price isn't anywhere close to getting out of hand
3716 2011-05-10 18:40:16 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|my pool
3717 2011-05-10 18:40:19 <jgarzik> diki: don't build from git, build the tarball: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3493.0
3718 2011-05-10 18:41:08 <BlueMatt> arg, we're back to 10 mintes per block
3719 2011-05-10 18:41:25 <ArtForzZz> huh?
3720 2011-05-10 18:41:26 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|probably cant use that video but it looks good
3721 2011-05-10 18:41:47 <BlueMatt> ArtForzZz: the mining power was much greater than difficulty so way more than 1 block/10 mintes
3722 2011-05-10 18:41:52 <ArtForzZz> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png ... don't see it
3723 2011-05-10 18:41:52 <BlueMatt> now its back
3724 2011-05-10 18:42:03 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
3725 2011-05-10 18:42:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123150 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1841 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 8 hours, 29 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 216370.06096567
3726 2011-05-10 18:42:07 <gjs278> wow
3727 2011-05-10 18:42:08 <gjs278> 216
3728 2011-05-10 18:42:23 <BlueMatt> ArtForzZz: in any case, the mining power didnt change overnight, but the difficulty did
3729 2011-05-10 18:42:37 <ArtForzZz> BlueMatt: yes, difficulty tends to do that every 2016 blocks
3730 2011-05-10 18:42:39 <gjs278> I think it jumped a lot on the new difficulty actually
3731 2011-05-10 18:42:46 <BlueMatt> ArtForzZz: doesnt mean I cant complain
3732 2011-05-10 18:42:53 <gjs278> I would complain
3733 2011-05-10 18:42:57 <gjs278> fuck these these new miners
3734 2011-05-10 18:42:58 <ArtForzZz> doesn't mean it'll help ;)
3735 2011-05-10 18:43:04 <BlueMatt> f u
3736 2011-05-10 18:43:04 <ArtForzZz> gjs278: why?
3737 2011-05-10 18:43:08 <gjs278> because
3738 2011-05-10 18:43:10 <gjs278> less coins
3739 2011-05-10 18:43:11 <gjs278> for me
3740 2011-05-10 18:43:19 <ArtForzZz> boo. fucking. hoo.
3741 2011-05-10 18:43:28 <ArtForzZz> *g*
3742 2011-05-10 18:44:04 <gjs278> these people won't last the summer
3743 2011-05-10 18:44:14 <gjs278> they'll turn it all down once their housse overheat
3744 2011-05-10 18:44:30 <ArtForzZz> so, whats the problem then?
3745 2011-05-10 18:44:51 <ArtForzZz> if you designed your shit properly it'll work
3746 2011-05-10 18:44:56 <ersi> Indeed
3747 2011-05-10 18:45:05 <jgarzik> has anyone found an in-stock 4U case, that works with 6990 airflow (which is different from 5970, I understand?) ?
3748 2011-05-10 18:45:11 <ArtForzZz> I tested at up to 35°C ambient in *november*
3749 2011-05-10 18:45:12 * jgarzik is shopping
3750 2011-05-10 18:45:27 <gjs278> I don't actually know what my ambient is
3751 2011-05-10 18:45:30 <gjs278> I'll go check
3752 2011-05-10 18:45:49 <gjs278> I know I personally won't overheat on the cards, they'll never reach 80c no matter how hot it gets
3753 2011-05-10 18:45:53 <gjs278> but my room
3754 2011-05-10 18:45:57 <gjs278> will get pretty damn hot
3755 2011-05-10 18:46:01 <ArtForzZz> and yes, getting room temp to 35°C mid-winter was quite a trick ;)
3756 2011-05-10 18:46:09 <phantomcircuit> ArtForzZz, lulz
3757 2011-05-10 18:46:17 <phantomcircuit> ArtForzZz, close doors, seal gaps, wait 4 hours
3758 2011-05-10 18:46:20 <ArtForzZz> yep
3759 2011-05-10 18:46:22 <ArtForzZz> pretty much
3760 2011-05-10 18:46:35 <gjs278> I do know that if I don't lower my memclock, I will definitely hit 80 eventually
3761 2011-05-10 18:46:36 <nathan7> lala
3762 2011-05-10 18:48:04 <ArtForzZz> btw, I bet GPUs wont be the first heat casualties
3763 2011-05-10 18:48:18 <ArtForzZz> more likely we'll have a dozen idiots kill their PSUs first
3764 2011-05-10 18:48:26 <phantomcircuit> lol
3765 2011-05-10 18:48:39 <phantomcircuit> the variability in the PSU market is just amazing
3766 2011-05-10 18:48:43 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3767 2011-05-10 18:48:50 <phantomcircuit> and the complete lack of meaningful specifications is mind boggling
3768 2011-05-10 18:48:55 <ArtForzZz> yeah
3769 2011-05-10 18:49:07 <wumpus> indeed
3770 2011-05-10 18:49:10 <ArtForzZz> you pretty much need industrial stuff to get a datasheet that actually says something
3771 2011-05-10 18:49:36 <phantomcircuit> RATED TO 2000 GW (peak load)
3772 2011-05-10 18:49:47 <BlueMatt> ITS OVER 9000
3773 2011-05-10 18:50:08 <Guest9092> heya, anything i need to know about before upgrading my bitcoin client form 0.3.10 to current?
3774 2011-05-10 18:50:57 <gjs278> you need to know
3775 2011-05-10 18:51:08 TD_ has joined
3776 2011-05-10 18:51:09 <gjs278> that humpty dumpty is never referred to as an egg in the original rhyme
3777 2011-05-10 18:51:15 <BlueMatt> you need to know...wait wtf are you doing on 0.3.10?
3778 2011-05-10 18:51:21 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: yeah it's a bit like audio equipment, rated to XXX W peak where XXX is some meaningless high number
3779 2011-05-10 18:51:21 <phantomcircuit> Guest9092, not that i can think og
3780 2011-05-10 18:51:24 <ArtForzZz> Guest9092: should work fine
3781 2011-05-10 18:51:37 <ArtForzZz> wumpus: and again, pro stuff actually has meaningful specifications
3782 2011-05-10 18:51:38 Guest9092 is now known as topace__
3783 2011-05-10 18:51:46 <topace__> cool thanks
3784 2011-05-10 18:51:55 <gjs278> my room is so hot
3785 2011-05-10 18:51:59 BitMark_ has joined
3786 2011-05-10 18:51:59 BitMark_ has quit (Changing host)
3787 2011-05-10 18:51:59 BitMark_ has joined
3788 2011-05-10 18:52:00 BitMark has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3789 2011-05-10 18:52:00 BitMark_ is now known as BitMark
3790 2011-05-10 18:52:01 <gjs278> if I do not cooldown soon I will surely die
3791 2011-05-10 18:52:14 <topace__> BlueMatt: havent used bitcoin since the GPU's took over
3792 2011-05-10 18:52:21 <ArtForzZz> my cheap sub amps *do* deliver 2*1kW peak into 2*4R at < 1% distortion, measured
3793 2011-05-10 18:52:34 <topace__> so i figure i might as well sell what i got left :p
3794 2011-05-10 18:52:34 <ArtForzZz> well, peak = max sustained RMS
3795 2011-05-10 18:52:39 <BlueMatt> topace__: you should be fine
3796 2011-05-10 18:52:44 <gjs278> I need an air conditioner that runs on graphics card heat
3797 2011-05-10 18:52:46 <ArtForzZz> because anything beyond that is just PR
3798 2011-05-10 18:52:53 <BlueMatt> topace__: how much you got left?
3799 2011-05-10 18:52:57 <ArtForzZz> gjs278: ask maxwell for his demon
3800 2011-05-10 18:52:58 <topace__> does the stock bitcoin client make use of GPU's now ?
3801 2011-05-10 18:53:00 <wumpus> yeah
3802 2011-05-10 18:53:03 <ArtForzZz> topace__: no
3803 2011-05-10 18:53:07 <wumpus> topace__: no and it never will
3804 2011-05-10 18:53:17 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
3805 2011-05-10 18:53:17 <topace__> BlueMatt: a couple thousand coins :p
3806 2011-05-10 18:53:23 <wumpus> the stock bitcoin client has no mining at all anymore
3807 2011-05-10 18:53:23 <BlueMatt> nice
3808 2011-05-10 18:53:32 <gjs278> maxwell give me your demon
3809 2011-05-10 18:53:33 <ArtForzZz> having external miners is a much cleaner solution
3810 2011-05-10 18:53:47 <topace__> if i wanted to start generating again, how would i go about it ?
3811 2011-05-10 18:53:49 <wumpus> and doesn't raise expectations for hopeful people
3812 2011-05-10 18:53:55 <topace__> where do i download miners that work with the new client ?
3813 2011-05-10 18:53:56 <gjs278> first buy a time machine
3814 2011-05-10 18:53:58 <topace__> im so confused :p
3815 2011-05-10 18:53:59 <gjs278> go back to december
3816 2011-05-10 18:54:04 <gjs278> and do it that way
3817 2011-05-10 18:54:09 <gjs278> and then cash out at $5 a coin
3818 2011-05-10 18:54:13 <ArtForzZz> yep, a time machine should help
3819 2011-05-10 18:54:23 <ArtForzZz> or a few $k of ATI GPUs
3820 2011-05-10 18:54:33 <gjs278> free 5970's
3821 2011-05-10 18:54:36 <wumpus> someone should sell time machines for bitcoins
3822 2011-05-10 18:54:43 <luke-jr> gjs278: WHAT
3823 2011-05-10 18:54:47 <gjs278> no
3824 2011-05-10 18:54:48 <luke-jr> I'll TAKE AS MANY AS YOU GOT FREE
3825 2011-05-10 18:54:50 <gjs278> if you had a time machine
3826 2011-05-10 18:54:54 <gjs278> that's what you would have
3827 2011-05-10 18:54:57 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3828 2011-05-10 18:54:57 TD_ is now known as TD
3829 2011-05-10 18:54:58 <ArtForzZz> yes, stop the GPU slavery
3830 2011-05-10 18:54:58 <luke-jr> -.-
3831 2011-05-10 18:54:58 <gjs278> hundreds of free 5970's
3832 2011-05-10 18:55:06 <gjs278> they would roam the fields
3833 2011-05-10 18:55:08 <xelister> revolution
3834 2011-05-10 18:55:15 <xelister> lol ROAM the fields... LOL
3835 2011-05-10 18:55:18 <jgarzik> man, this "Merge pull request" button in github is sexy and seductive
3836 2011-05-10 18:55:20 <wumpus> hahah
3837 2011-05-10 18:55:32 <gjs278> once the gpus figure out that they don't need the humans any longer, they generate all of the bitcoins for themselves
3838 2011-05-10 18:55:32 <Raccoon> back to the bit fields for you! {volt crack}
3839 2011-05-10 18:55:40 AmpEater2 has joined
3840 2011-05-10 18:55:47 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: why does it never seem to work?
3841 2011-05-10 18:55:57 <AmpEater2> ;;bc,gen 6500000
3842 2011-05-10 18:55:58 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 6500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 41.5298356473 BTC per day and 1.73040981864 BTC per hour.
3843 2011-05-10 18:56:06 <gjs278> I had to sacrifice my first born son to rebase
3844 2011-05-10 18:56:07 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: WFM :)
3845 2011-05-10 18:56:14 <BlueMatt> ?
3846 2011-05-10 18:56:29 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3847 2011-05-10 18:56:32 <BlueMatt> ah
3848 2011-05-10 18:56:45 <BlueMatt> and why does it never work for gavin?
3849 2011-05-10 18:56:49 <AmpEater2> ;;bc,gen 1000000
3850 2011-05-10 18:56:50 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 6.3892054842 BTC per day and 0.266216895175 BTC per hour.
3851 2011-05-10 18:57:10 <ArtForzZz> 1000s of poor GPUs being forced to mine under horrible conditions until they die
3852 2011-05-10 18:58:18 <jgarzik> heh
3853 2011-05-10 18:58:32 <gjs278> they had hoop dreams
3854 2011-05-10 18:58:35 <gjs278> of playing crysis
3855 2011-05-10 18:58:36 <gjs278> nope
3856 2011-05-10 18:58:38 <gjs278> hash this
3857 2011-05-10 18:58:39 <gjs278> again
3858 2011-05-10 18:58:40 <diki> so jgarzik, building the tar, eh?
3859 2011-05-10 18:58:41 <gjs278> again
3860 2011-05-10 18:59:17 <gjs278> you could make real tar with enough gpus
3861 2011-05-10 18:59:21 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: one huge flaw of the 'Merge pull request' button is the inability to do any sort of build testing or sanity checking
3862 2011-05-10 18:59:25 <jgarzik> diki: ?
3863 2011-05-10 18:59:29 larsivi has joined
3864 2011-05-10 18:59:50 <BlueMatt> well that too, maybe idiots should rebase
3865 2011-05-10 19:00:08 <ArtForzZz> this message brought to you by people for the ethical treatment of computer parts
3866 2011-05-10 19:00:12 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: that won't fix things like pulling something that doesn't build
3867 2011-05-10 19:00:19 <BlueMatt> well that too
3868 2011-05-10 19:00:24 manifold_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3869 2011-05-10 19:00:30 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: and C++ is so ugly, it's easy to miss crapola that fails to build for obscure C++ reasons
3870 2011-05-10 19:00:35 sc8nt4u has joined
3871 2011-05-10 19:00:54 <jgarzik> python has the same problem (easy to miss failures, not the ugly part)
3872 2011-05-10 19:01:15 <ArtForzZz> yep
3873 2011-05-10 19:01:30 <gjs278> seg fault
3874 2011-05-10 19:01:37 <Raccoon> Tue May 10 12:55:26 2011 -- Number of tangable items for sale with Bitcoins: 0.
3875 2011-05-10 19:01:41 <gjs278> nothing makes me happier than a seg fault
3876 2011-05-10 19:01:48 <gjs278> dude !!!! alpoca socks!!!!!
3877 2011-05-10 19:01:51 <gjs278> buy buy buy
3878 2011-05-10 19:02:02 <jgarzik> gjs278: better segfault than memleak. at least a segfault I can pop into a debugger
3879 2011-05-10 19:02:04 <sipa> jgarzik: seen my answer to your remark on my dnslookup patch?
3880 2011-05-10 19:02:09 <jgarzik> (or the core file generated thereof)
3881 2011-05-10 19:02:14 <gjs278> my gentoo
3882 2011-05-10 19:02:16 <gjs278> never coredumps
3883 2011-05-10 19:02:18 <gjs278> I can't get it to
3884 2011-05-10 19:02:23 <gjs278> I've read every guide with no luck
3885 2011-05-10 19:02:30 <jgarzik> sipa: are there existing callsites that already use host:port notation, that must be parsed?
3886 2011-05-10 19:02:32 <gjs278> my freebsd wouldn't stop coredumping
3887 2011-05-10 19:02:32 <ArtForzZz> Raccoon: tangable? lol srsly?
3888 2011-05-10 19:02:41 <gjs278> tang
3889 2011-05-10 19:02:43 <gjs278> is delicious
3890 2011-05-10 19:02:47 <gjs278> if I could buy tang with bitcoins
3891 2011-05-10 19:02:50 <gjs278> I'd be tapped out
3892 2011-05-10 19:02:53 <BlueMatt> tang-able, can you tang it?
3893 2011-05-10 19:03:04 <Raccoon> fine, tangible
3894 2011-05-10 19:03:13 <jgarzik> sipa: the code quite clearly keeps host and port separate, and your change reverses that (IMO) good practice
3895 2011-05-10 19:03:52 <jgarzik> sipa: so I consider that a mild regression
3896 2011-05-10 19:03:55 <BlueMatt> how is that good practice
3897 2011-05-10 19:03:58 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, ulimit -c unlimited
3898 2011-05-10 19:04:07 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: read the comments on the pull request?
3899 2011-05-10 19:04:07 <gjs278> it's never matted
3900 2011-05-10 19:04:12 <gjs278> ulimit anything
3901 2011-05-10 19:04:24 <ArtForzZz> gjs278: so.. it's shiny?
3902 2011-05-10 19:04:25 <gjs278> or maybe apache was dumping to somewhere I didnt know
3903 2011-05-10 19:04:37 <gjs278> and one day I'll come across the dir
3904 2011-05-10 19:04:41 <gjs278> of every coredump I've ever had
3905 2011-05-10 19:05:18 <sipa> jgarzik: well there is currently an "IP:host" constructor used in many places, which is also used for -connect and -addnode
3906 2011-05-10 19:05:31 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: who do you think I am, I never read...oh and good point
3907 2011-05-10 19:05:56 <sipa> though in practice that's not really useful (yet), as bitcoin does not like (?) to connect to non-standard ports
3908 2011-05-10 19:06:03 <jaromil> BlueMatt: briefly peeking from home jukebox, how was the compilation?
3909 2011-05-10 19:06:20 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, zgrep -F ELF_CORE /proc/config.gz
3910 2011-05-10 19:06:45 <sipa> but i consider that string to be a human-readable serialization of a CAddress, which except for the strange overloading of putting node services in there, is a combination of a host and a port
3911 2011-05-10 19:06:50 <BlueMatt> jaromil: what?
3912 2011-05-10 19:06:54 <jgarzik> to wit, address/port are already stored in separate variables, at many callsites. it is silly to smush them together, only to (a) reparse them into two parts, and (b) call functions that demand host/port are separate variables, namely the entire socket API
3913 2011-05-10 19:07:22 lyspooner has joined
3914 2011-05-10 19:07:37 <jgarzik> in addition to the well known IPv6 problems that occur when dealing with "host:port" strings in the field, as IPv6 addresses also include ':'
3915 2011-05-10 19:07:47 <jgarzik> so it's sorta recreating a problem IPv6'ers have been trying to stomp out
3916 2011-05-10 19:08:25 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i mean the last fix on the autotools branch
3917 2011-05-10 19:08:31 <jaromil> if you tried building then
3918 2011-05-10 19:08:37 <jgarzik> if the host/port variables are _already_ separate, do not smush them together into a string -- only to reparse them into constituent parts.
3919 2011-05-10 19:08:56 <jaromil> however, later i'll test more, commit instructions for building and rebase into one commit
3920 2011-05-10 19:09:00 <luke-jr> []
3921 2011-05-10 19:09:19 <BlueMatt> <BlueMatt> jaromil: just fyi, works perfectly here if you remove -lmthreads and -pthread
3922 2011-05-10 19:09:27 <sipa> jgarzik: there is one actually useful call site though - the argument to -proxy
3923 2011-05-10 19:10:08 <sipa> jgarzik: would you agree to a (string,port) constructor, which is used where possible, and another (string) constructor that tries to match a port at the end strip that off, first using [host]:port, then using host:port
3924 2011-05-10 19:10:27 <sipa> -addnode -connect and -proxy would use the second form, the rest the first
3925 2011-05-10 19:10:35 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, need an address struct ;)
3926 2011-05-10 19:10:46 <BlueMatt> jaromil: (from the linker)
3927 2011-05-10 19:10:52 <diki> wow tarball actually installed.....how?
3928 2011-05-10 19:10:55 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, zgrep -F ELF_CORE /proc/config.gz
3929 2011-05-10 19:11:20 <diki> im mind boggled
3930 2011-05-10 19:11:25 <jgarzik> sipa: That's why I was asking if there were existing callsites, in the current not-yet-sipa-patched code, that already use host:port. If yes, then we need two constructors (one for [host:port] 1-arg form, and one for [host,port] 2-arg form), and must be compatible.
3931 2011-05-10 19:11:51 <sipa> ok
3932 2011-05-10 19:12:04 <topace__> (sorry for being stupid as i get back into this world) how do i go about getting a miner? i dont see any downloads on the main bitcoin page?
3933 2011-05-10 19:12:17 <ArtForzZz> check the mining forum
3934 2011-05-10 19:13:03 gasteve has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3935 2011-05-10 19:13:25 Speeder has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3936 2011-05-10 19:13:55 Speeder has joined
3937 2011-05-10 19:15:10 <wumpus> topace__: if you don't have a state of the art ATI gpu, I wouldn't even bother mining
3938 2011-05-10 19:15:21 <topace__> ArtForzZz: there's like a gazillion links to download different miners... how would a newbie know which to trust? which is best, etc?
3939 2011-05-10 19:15:41 <ArtForzZz> what wumpus just said
3940 2011-05-10 19:16:13 <ArtForzZz> you pretty much need a current ATI GPU to make more than small breadcrumbs in a pool
3941 2011-05-10 19:16:54 marlowe has quit (Quit: leaving)
3942 2011-05-10 19:17:29 sc8nt4u has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3943 2011-05-10 19:18:02 <ArtForzZz> even with a high-end CPU you're looking at maybe 0.15btc/day
3944 2011-05-10 19:18:16 <topace__> ArtForzZz: i just bought a new imac: its got an ATI 6970M 2GB
3945 2011-05-10 19:19:01 <ArtForzZz> good place to start, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OpenCL_miner
3946 2011-05-10 19:19:05 <sethsethseth> how can i securely store my coins without messing with backups
3947 2011-05-10 19:19:06 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 1497000
3948 2011-05-10 19:19:08 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1497000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 5 days, 5 hours, 27 minutes, and 43 seconds
3949 2011-05-10 19:19:41 <sethsethseth> can i just move the wallet.dat file to a flash drive and bury it somewhere?
3950 2011-05-10 19:19:56 <ArtForzZz> sethsethseth: yes, pretty much
3951 2011-05-10 19:20:28 <diki> w00t installed
3952 2011-05-10 19:20:32 <diki> but server.json is missing...
3953 2011-05-10 19:20:35 <sethsethseth> then can i keep using the client?
3954 2011-05-10 19:20:54 <ArtForzZz> ?
3955 2011-05-10 19:21:02 <sethsethseth> what about that 100 addresses thing
3956 2011-05-10 19:21:37 <sethsethseth> can i move the wallet out, and then keep sending coins to my bitcoin client?
3957 2011-05-10 19:21:46 <ArtForzZz> huh?
3958 2011-05-10 19:22:32 <sethsethseth> i thought something could get messed up if you send coins to an address when it is backed up
3959 2011-05-10 19:22:39 <brycek> no
3960 2011-05-10 19:22:52 <phantomcircuit> sethsethseth, no, the wallet.dat is only needed to then spend those coins at a later date
3961 2011-05-10 19:22:53 <brycek> sending coins to an address doesn't even require that anybody controls the private key for the address
3962 2011-05-10 19:23:00 <ArtForzZz> yep
3963 2011-05-10 19:23:01 <jaromil> BlueMatt: ACK
3964 2011-05-10 19:23:01 <phantomcircuit> sethsethseth, you can send coins to any address
3965 2011-05-10 19:23:07 <brycek> so you could make up a valid-looking address and blast your coins off into that abyss
3966 2011-05-10 19:23:12 <ArtForzZz> thats why that scheme works so well
3967 2011-05-10 19:23:14 <xelister> any valid addr, it has some checksum
3968 2011-05-10 19:23:36 <xelister> if I would be super rich
3969 2011-05-10 19:23:42 <xelister> I would become mtgox.com user Trololol
3970 2011-05-10 19:23:45 <xelister> then buy ALL COINS
3971 2011-05-10 19:23:45 <sethsethseth> ok so i can just move the wallet out, then transfer more off of mtgox or whatever to my bitcoin client, and repeat
3972 2011-05-10 19:23:52 <xelister> and send them all to random unexisting addr =)
3973 2011-05-10 19:24:00 <diki> yo luke, you there?
3974 2011-05-10 19:24:15 <ArtForzZz> create a new wallet, write down its address, store that wallet safely in multiple locations, just keep sending coins to that address
3975 2011-05-10 19:24:24 <brycek> if you choose to do that can i recommend 16r2wwAZqJHVVeETAaRa5TqHCyP4rbL4s6
3976 2011-05-10 19:24:34 <xelister> brycek: =)
3977 2011-05-10 19:24:43 <cosurgi> topace__: a single ATI 5870 has avg. speed of 400 Mega Hashes (MHs) which generates roughly 2.5 BTC per day, look:
3978 2011-05-10 19:24:46 <cosurgi> ;;bc,gen 400000
3979 2011-05-10 19:24:47 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 2.55568219368 BTC per day and 0.10648675807 BTC per hour.
3980 2011-05-10 19:25:00 <cosurgi> topace__: so you need to buy 10 of those, if you are serious.
3981 2011-05-10 19:25:11 purpleposeidon has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
3982 2011-05-10 19:25:23 <sipa> jgarzik: i'm thinking about *only* allowing the [host]:port notation
3983 2011-05-10 19:25:44 <sipa> hmm, that would break current usage of -proxy maybe
3984 2011-05-10 19:25:48 <jgarzik> sipa: does that alter any existing behavior in 0.3.21?
3985 2011-05-10 19:25:49 <jgarzik> yeah...
3986 2011-05-10 19:26:10 <tcatm> BlueMatt: yes. I'll do that (js-remote subcents)
3987 2011-05-10 19:26:10 <ArtForzZz> consistency > compatiblity
3988 2011-05-10 19:26:23 <BlueMatt> tcatm: thanks
3989 2011-05-10 19:26:23 <sethsethseth> what clocks give you .4ghash with a 5870
3990 2011-05-10 19:26:47 <sipa> the problem is: if we ever add ipv6 capability, you will get an ambiguous situation
3991 2011-05-10 19:26:48 <lyspooner> is the owner of bitcoinmonitor.com on IRC?
3992 2011-05-10 19:26:57 <diki> Ah, jgarzik, where is server.json?
3993 2011-05-10 19:27:01 <sethsethseth> how do i make a new wallet
3994 2011-05-10 19:27:07 <cosurgi> sethsethseth: 930
3995 2011-05-10 19:27:09 <jgarzik> sipa: no, just means we're forced to the commonly deployed, sub-optimal behavior :)
3996 2011-05-10 19:27:14 <jgarzik> sipa: consider HTTP
3997 2011-05-10 19:27:14 <ArtForzZz> yep
3998 2011-05-10 19:27:21 <sipa> jgarzik: which is?
3999 2011-05-10 19:27:31 <ArtForzZz> "if it looks like dotted-quad, it's IPv4"
4000 2011-05-10 19:27:33 <brycek> sethsethseth: make three backup copies of your wallet.dat, and then delete it
4001 2011-05-10 19:27:39 <sipa> if there is a :number at the end, consider it to be a number?
4002 2011-05-10 19:27:42 <sipa> *port
4003 2011-05-10 19:27:43 <jgarzik> sipa: HTTP permits host:port or will parse [0:0:0:0:0]:111
4004 2011-05-10 19:28:10 <ArtForzZz> that's just weird
4005 2011-05-10 19:28:16 <cosurgi> xelister: wtf kurwa with "tololol"?
4006 2011-05-10 19:28:20 <jgarzik> sipa: HTTP does /not/ AFAIK permit 0:0:0:0:0:111
4007 2011-05-10 19:28:26 <sipa> how does HTPP parse fe80::22cf:30ff:fe64:80 ?
4008 2011-05-10 19:28:29 <sipa> *HTTP
4009 2011-05-10 19:28:38 <ArtForzZz> it doesn't, because thats not a valid ipv6 address
4010 2011-05-10 19:28:45 <ArtForzZz> ipv6 notation has :: for a reason
4011 2011-05-10 19:28:58 <ArtForzZz> well, actually that works
4012 2011-05-10 19:28:58 <sipa> it looks valid to me
4013 2011-05-10 19:29:01 <sethsethseth> god im such a noob still and ive prob spent 200 hours looking at bitcoin forum
4014 2011-05-10 19:29:07 <jgarzik> :: is just shorthand
4015 2011-05-10 19:29:07 <ArtForzZz> yeah, missed a : there
4016 2011-05-10 19:29:19 <BlueMatt> sipa: its not supposed to, first fe80 links MUST include the the interface
4017 2011-05-10 19:29:22 <xelister> cosurgi: http://trololololololololololo.com/
4018 2011-05-10 19:29:46 <jgarzik> sipa: anyway, HTTP browsers have already solved this problem when parsing URIs, so we should follow their lead, whatever it is
4019 2011-05-10 19:29:51 amiller has joined
4020 2011-05-10 19:30:22 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|yaa.
4021 2011-05-10 19:30:33 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|got my cards down to 86c
4022 2011-05-10 19:30:43 <cosurgi> xelister: it's empty in links
4023 2011-05-10 19:30:54 <ArtForzZz> *down* to 86? yeowch.
4024 2011-05-10 19:31:11 <sipa> jgarzik: it seems http://aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff/ is not allowed anyway
4025 2011-05-10 19:31:21 <xelister> kreal|: =)
4026 2011-05-10 19:31:26 <xelister> kreal|: open the case and put fan there?
4027 2011-05-10 19:31:37 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|well its a big improvement from 92
4028 2011-05-10 19:31:44 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|its just a motherboard on a place.
4029 2011-05-10 19:31:49 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|plat*
4030 2011-05-10 19:31:55 <ArtForzZz> "you're doing it wrong"
4031 2011-05-10 19:31:59 <xelister> 92 C...
4032 2011-05-10 19:32:04 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|plate*
4033 2011-05-10 19:32:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, ipv6's have to be in [] for them to be valid (technically)
4034 2011-05-10 19:32:09 <xelister> where are you mining this, on the Sun?
4035 2011-05-10 19:32:11 <sipa> in that case, i think this rule suffices: if the address string ends in :number, consider that to be the port number, and parse what comes before (dropping [] possibly)
4036 2011-05-10 19:32:21 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|apprently.
4037 2011-05-10 19:32:44 <xelister> ipv6 really messed up with : imo. why not just .
4038 2011-05-10 19:32:47 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|like i said, ive got floor heating...
4039 2011-05-10 19:32:53 <xelister> kreal|: turn it off/
4040 2011-05-10 19:32:59 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|turn what off?
4041 2011-05-10 19:33:00 <xelister> LOL you are heating your miner?
4042 2011-05-10 19:33:01 <ArtForzZz> xelister: why not ! ?
4043 2011-05-10 19:33:04 <Raccoon> bitcoin needs to register an xyz:// protcol. eg BTC://
4044 2011-05-10 19:33:23 <xelister> <iana> we assigned a protocol to BitCoin
4045 2011-05-10 19:33:26 <Raccoon> then we could add clickable links that activate the local client
4046 2011-05-10 19:33:27 <xelister> <iana> fraud://
4047 2011-05-10 19:33:29 <xelister> <iana> problem?
4048 2011-05-10 19:33:35 <Raccoon> lol
4049 2011-05-10 19:33:47 <ArtForzZz> Raccoon: and yet another TOTALLY NEW IDEA!!!1one
4050 2011-05-10 19:33:58 <Raccoon> ArtForzZz: there is nothing wrong with recycling ideas
4051 2011-05-10 19:34:08 * xelister starts dot com
4052 2011-05-10 19:34:08 <Raccoon> old is the new new
4053 2011-05-10 19:34:10 * sipa has lost count how many different uri schemes have been proposed the past 4 months
4054 2011-05-10 19:34:10 <BlueMatt> Raccoon: see my pull request...
4055 2011-05-10 19:34:26 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4056 2011-05-10 19:34:30 <ArtForzZz> Raccoon: idiot is the new idiot
4057 2011-05-10 19:34:33 * BlueMatt is waiting for another couple pull requests to turn up with other uri schemes
4058 2011-05-10 19:34:33 <Raccoon> i don't care how many uri schemes there are
4059 2011-05-10 19:34:38 <Raccoon> the client supports none of them
4060 2011-05-10 19:34:44 <xelister> NEW IDEA
4061 2011-05-10 19:34:44 <Raccoon> so just fuckin do it
4062 2011-05-10 19:34:48 <BlueMatt> yes it does, again see my pull request
4063 2011-05-10 19:34:52 <xelister> seing the success of Duke Nukem 3d, lets write -forever
4064 2011-05-10 19:34:56 <ArtForzZz> Raccoon: do it, submit a pull request.
4065 2011-05-10 19:35:05 <BlueMatt> Raccoon: and please, dont be a dick, no one likes that
4066 2011-05-10 19:35:09 <Raccoon> or just compile and distro
4067 2011-05-10 19:35:16 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
4068 2011-05-10 19:35:29 <Raccoon> people use it, it becomes standard. win.
4069 2011-05-10 19:35:44 <jgarzik> sipa: that rule sounds good
4070 2011-05-10 19:36:04 * BlueMatt agrees with sipa
4071 2011-05-10 19:36:07 <ArtForzZz> BlueMatt: lol rly?
4072 2011-05-10 19:36:22 <jgarzik> sipa: (along with my earlier point, about not combining-then-separating host,port when they are already separate at the callsite)
4073 2011-05-10 19:36:27 <BlueMatt> ArtForzZz: well for some reason people don't seem to get that, reminding them sometimes helps
4074 2011-05-10 19:36:28 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|anyone got amdoverdrivectrl to work?
4075 2011-05-10 19:36:34 <ArtForzZz> then what am I supposed to do now *goes sob in corner*
4076 2011-05-10 19:36:46 <ArtForzZz> ;)
4077 2011-05-10 19:36:47 <jgarzik> sipa: fundamentally, in all socket and boost APIs, the port is an integer stored and used separately from hostname[->address]
4078 2011-05-10 19:36:49 <sipa> jgarzik: deal
4079 2011-05-10 19:36:50 pnicholson has joined
4080 2011-05-10 19:37:03 ezl has joined
4081 2011-05-10 19:38:01 <diki> jgarzik, dude, come on. Why not?
4082 2011-05-10 19:38:15 <ArtForzZz> jgarzik: yep
4083 2011-05-10 19:38:22 <jgarzik> diki: why not what?
4084 2011-05-10 19:38:37 <diki> why wont you tell me what to write in the server.json file?
4085 2011-05-10 19:38:58 <ArtForzZz> diki: json
4086 2011-05-10 19:38:58 <diki> or at least some kind of instructions in a file
4087 2011-05-10 19:39:20 <jgarzik> diki: an example is provided
4088 2011-05-10 19:39:27 <diki> no there isn't
4089 2011-05-10 19:39:51 <jgarzik> diki: yes, there is: https://github.com/jgarzik/pushpool/blob/master/example-cfg.json
4090 2011-05-10 19:39:52 <diki> the only files i've encountered were *c,*h and readme/install
4091 2011-05-10 19:39:54 <ArtForzZz> yes there is
4092 2011-05-10 19:40:16 <diki> that's a different story
4093 2011-05-10 19:40:22 <diki> now that, i like
4094 2011-05-10 19:40:49 <luke-jr> -.-
4095 2011-05-10 19:40:52 <jgarzik> -rw-rw-r-- 500/500 1641 2011-04-13 16:46 pushpool-0.4/example-cfg.json
4096 2011-05-10 19:40:55 <jgarzik> it's in the tarball too
4097 2011-05-10 19:41:02 <ArtForzZz> pwned.
4098 2011-05-10 19:41:07 <diki> zomg...
4099 2011-05-10 19:41:27 <diki> there must be something wrong with me today...
4100 2011-05-10 19:41:33 <luke-jr> (not just today)
4101 2011-05-10 19:41:41 <diki> Care to explain luke?
4102 2011-05-10 19:41:44 <ArtForzZz> pfff, I keep IRCing in my sleep.
4103 2011-05-10 19:41:56 <luke-jr> diki: you've been trying to do this for how many days now? :P
4104 2011-05-10 19:42:08 <luke-jr> I mean, pushpool took me like an hour to setup?
4105 2011-05-10 19:42:08 <diki> i might insult myself sometimes, but it doesnt mean i allow other people to tell me that
4106 2011-05-10 19:42:15 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,gen 1500
4107 2011-05-10 19:42:16 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1500 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 0.0095838082263 BTC per day and 0.000399325342762 BTC per hour.
4108 2011-05-10 19:42:22 <diki> I tried to compile from git
4109 2011-05-10 19:42:25 <diki> not tarball
4110 2011-05-10 19:42:31 <luke-jr> it's in git too
4111 2011-05-10 19:42:41 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,calc 1500
4112 2011-05-10 19:42:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1500 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 14 years, 15 weeks, 2 days, 3 hours, 11 minutes, and 11 seconds
4113 2011-05-10 19:42:42 <diki> the example config file, maybe
4114 2011-05-10 19:42:50 <diki> but compilation didnt work
4115 2011-05-10 19:43:02 <luke-jr> so try random crap until it does
4116 2011-05-10 19:44:02 <ArtForzZz> yup, spaghetti, meet wall
4117 2011-05-10 19:44:33 <sipa> jgarzik: other thing i'd like to change: change CAddress::CAddress()'s portIn argument host order, and let the constructor call htons()
4118 2011-05-10 19:44:40 <sipa> *to host order
4119 2011-05-10 19:44:42 <yebyen> ;;bc,calc 1500000
4120 2011-05-10 19:44:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 5 days, 5 hours, 12 minutes, and 40 seconds
4121 2011-05-10 19:44:59 <yebyen> 1.5MH/s is easily achieved with a gpu, right?
4122 2011-05-10 19:45:03 <sipa> otherwise you'd need to call CAddress("127.0.0.1",htons(8333))
4123 2011-05-10 19:45:29 <jgarzik> sipa: agreed
4124 2011-05-10 19:45:45 <brycek> yebyen: not really?
4125 2011-05-10 19:45:56 <brycek> maybe with a bunch of gpus
4126 2011-05-10 19:46:09 <xelister> brycek: lol. M not G
4127 2011-05-10 19:46:21 <brycek> oh durf
4128 2011-05-10 19:46:22 <brycek> yeah
4129 2011-05-10 19:46:31 <yebyen> whats a radeon 5970 output
4130 2011-05-10 19:46:35 <brycek> my two-year-old imac does 50
4131 2011-05-10 19:46:44 <brycek> that's a radeon fourdigitnumber of some flavor
4132 2011-05-10 19:47:01 <yebyen> last i heard that was the best gpu for bitcoin,
4133 2011-05-10 19:47:12 <luke-jr> sipa: what are you doing anyhow? :p
4134 2011-05-10 19:47:18 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
4135 2011-05-10 19:47:34 <luke-jr> sipa: I made that change in my IPv6 branch IIRC
4136 2011-05-10 19:48:51 <luke-jr> jgarzik: btw, any plans to fix the MySQL link error? :P
4137 2011-05-10 19:49:20 <diki> what is the function of blkmond?
4138 2011-05-10 19:49:52 <kreal> !~kris@ip1.c70.frb232.cust.comxnet.dk|to monitor.
4139 2011-05-10 19:49:53 <ArtForzZz> a daemon that monitors blocks?
4140 2011-05-10 19:50:09 <sipa> luke-jr: didn't know that
4141 2011-05-10 19:52:36 Lambdanaut has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4142 2011-05-10 19:53:05 marlowe has joined
4143 2011-05-10 19:53:27 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
4144 2011-05-10 19:55:06 <diki> almost there...the example server.json file doesnt look like it needs configuring for now
4145 2011-05-10 19:56:31 _ape has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4146 2011-05-10 19:56:45 <jgarzik> luke-jr: a github issue w/ details, or email full details. include command line pastes, whatever
4147 2011-05-10 19:56:50 <jgarzik> s/a/open a/
4148 2011-05-10 19:56:56 <diki> This reminds me of the good old times with daemon tools. Took me weeks to find out how to use it
4149 2011-05-10 19:57:22 <diki> i had to right-click it to open the menu and i was left-clicking it and nothing happened :P
4150 2011-05-10 19:57:42 <ArtForzZz> it took you *weeks* to figure that out?
4151 2011-05-10 19:57:49 <diki> well i was little then
4152 2011-05-10 19:59:59 gasteve has joined
4153 2011-05-10 20:00:11 <sgornick> Gavin and Amir on This Week In Startups. Live feed for that: http://thisweekin.com/live/
4154 2011-05-10 20:00:11 <sgornick> pre-show info https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qSQKZ_dHWmt2RQ1rlZaBIXUl4AI0V0ozA5MTzJsc7hs/edit?ndplr=1#
4155 2011-05-10 20:00:11 <sgornick> > 12:48 Broadcaster Thisweekin: We will probably start just after 1pm
4156 2011-05-10 20:00:18 <luke-jr> jgarzik: does it actually build with 'make' for you? O.o
4157 2011-05-10 20:00:30 purpleposeidon has joined
4158 2011-05-10 20:00:34 <BlueMatt> sgornick: who runs thiswekkin.com?
4159 2011-05-10 20:00:55 <sgornick> BlueMatt: @Jason Calicanis / Mahalo.com founder
4160 2011-05-10 20:01:10 <BlueMatt> I mean seriously this week in startups, I refuse to watch because they outright stole the this week in ... trademark from this week in tech
4161 2011-05-10 20:01:23 <luke-jr> jgarzik: basically, -lmysqlclient needs to be on the command line after db-mysql.o
4162 2011-05-10 20:01:57 <BlueMatt> (which uses it in various forms from this week in google to this week in law)
4163 2011-05-10 20:04:21 sethsethseth_ has joined
4164 2011-05-10 20:04:37 <BlueMatt> wait, lazlo disabled upnp for the mac binary?
4165 2011-05-10 20:04:56 <diki> "json parse failed"...
4166 2011-05-10 20:04:57 <BlueMatt> wtf I even spent time getting it to build right on my mac
4167 2011-05-10 20:05:03 <diki> do i have to have mysql running as well?
4168 2011-05-10 20:05:39 <CIA-30> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r8a407f4d4dda gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (4 files): net-p2p/pushpool: 0.4 and various fixups http://tinyurl.com/63othoj
4169 2011-05-10 20:05:42 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
4170 2011-05-10 20:06:04 Teslah has joined
4171 2011-05-10 20:06:22 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4172 2011-05-10 20:06:27 Lambdanaut_ has joined
4173 2011-05-10 20:07:48 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
4174 2011-05-10 20:08:37 gat3way has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4175 2011-05-10 20:09:20 agricocb has joined
4176 2011-05-10 20:11:33 wereHamster has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4177 2011-05-10 20:12:53 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
4178 2011-05-10 20:12:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.24,"low":3.8,"vol":47220,"buy":5.1003,"sell":5.18,"last":5.19}}
4179 2011-05-10 20:13:00 <purpleposeidon> ^wut
4180 2011-05-10 20:13:12 <purpleposeidon> bc's worst that gasoline
4181 2011-05-10 20:13:38 <diki> works...finally
4182 2011-05-10 20:13:45 <diki> now i have to make it visible to the outside world
4183 2011-05-10 20:13:45 eternal1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4184 2011-05-10 20:14:17 <diki> i dont know how sqlite 3 works but if its anything similar to mysql...piece of cake of doing any kind of database
4185 2011-05-10 20:14:20 <diki> (s)
4186 2011-05-10 20:14:31 <diki> i mean...i did create my own website :P
4187 2011-05-10 20:14:42 <gdoteof> iusecoins.com epic low price of the century
4188 2011-05-10 20:14:45 <BlueMatt> wtf? mysql is simple as hell to set up
4189 2011-05-10 20:14:47 <gdoteof> oops wrong wrong sorry
4190 2011-05-10 20:14:51 <diki> I am also feeling how i will port it to windows..needs to be there
4191 2011-05-10 20:15:05 <diki> Bluematt...under linux i dont know
4192 2011-05-10 20:15:15 <diki> but under Windows..i've done a lot of scripting in php and mysql
4193 2011-05-10 20:15:17 <gjs278> mysql on linux is even easier
4194 2011-05-10 20:15:24 <BlueMatt> did you seriously just install mysql on windows?
4195 2011-05-10 20:15:34 <diki> Dude are you reading?
4196 2011-05-10 20:15:35 <gjs278> it's not like it's a bad choice for windows
4197 2011-05-10 20:15:39 <BlueMatt> are you seriously running a website on windows?
4198 2011-05-10 20:15:42 <gjs278> you can still mysql on windows
4199 2011-05-10 20:15:46 <gjs278> BlueMatt I ran my site
4200 2011-05-10 20:15:49 <BlueMatt> can doesnt mean should
4201 2011-05-10 20:15:50 <gjs278> up until 200k alexa
4202 2011-05-10 20:15:52 <gjs278> on windows 98
4203 2011-05-10 20:15:55 <diki> I have the xampp package for testing
4204 2011-05-10 20:16:06 <diki> that's where i develop stuff rather than a host
4205 2011-05-10 20:16:16 grbgout has joined
4206 2011-05-10 20:16:25 <BlueMatt> gjs278: and IIRC you were telling me it never maxed out a residential cable line
4207 2011-05-10 20:16:30 <diki> plus xampp is way easier than installing apache,mysql etc separately
4208 2011-05-10 20:16:32 <gjs278> yeah
4209 2011-05-10 20:16:37 <gjs278> I had to keep things wayyy low
4210 2011-05-10 20:16:39 <gjs278> on bw
4211 2011-05-10 20:16:51 <diki> I might be going to 94MBps soon
4212 2011-05-10 20:16:53 <gjs278> not due to system resources though, due to my internet speed drops drastically while uploading
4213 2011-05-10 20:17:23 <BlueMatt> not on linux, apt-get install libapache2-mod-php5 php5-mysql
4214 2011-05-10 20:17:26 <BlueMatt> all set up and ready to go
4215 2011-05-10 20:17:33 <diki> i downloading with the whopping 5,7 megabytes per second
4216 2011-05-10 20:17:35 <gjs278> I do all webservers on freebsd still
4217 2011-05-10 20:17:40 finnomenon has joined
4218 2011-05-10 20:17:41 <diki> i generally do a few terabytes of traffic monthly
4219 2011-05-10 20:17:46 eternal1 has joined
4220 2011-05-10 20:17:48 <gjs278> unless it's already got linux in the environment
4221 2011-05-10 20:17:51 <gjs278> then I just go linux
4222 2011-05-10 20:17:56 <BlueMatt> gjs278: that works too, but windows is just not a hosting os
4223 2011-05-10 20:18:00 <gjs278> yeah
4224 2011-05-10 20:18:03 <BlueMatt> it isnt designed for it and kinda sucks at it
4225 2011-05-10 20:18:05 <BlueMatt> really*
4226 2011-05-10 20:18:23 <gjs278> telnetting to control a server is great
4227 2011-05-10 20:18:27 <gjs278> you can barely do anything
4228 2011-05-10 20:18:38 <diki> i prefer guis
4229 2011-05-10 20:18:44 <BlueMatt> ...facepalm
4230 2011-05-10 20:18:45 <diki> that's GUI(s)
4231 2011-05-10 20:18:47 <gjs278> lol
4232 2011-05-10 20:18:55 <gjs278> I would not gui
4233 2011-05-10 20:18:56 <gjs278> any daemon
4234 2011-05-10 20:19:07 <diki> i prefer the easy way and always take the easy way
4235 2011-05-10 20:19:07 <BlueMatt> running a gui on a server is the stupidest move ever (if you care about security in the slightest)
4236 2011-05-10 20:19:29 <gjs278> I run X just to check the vnc
4237 2011-05-10 20:19:34 <gjs278> beceaus that has conky on it
4238 2011-05-10 20:19:38 <gjs278> so I can see stats really quick
4239 2011-05-10 20:19:40 <gjs278> but thats about it
4240 2011-05-10 20:19:49 <BlueMatt> gjs278: ever heard of X forwarding over ssh?
4241 2011-05-10 20:19:55 <gjs278> http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6994/screenshotafe.png
4242 2011-05-10 20:19:58 <BlueMatt> the easy way is linux, believe me...if you want a simple to install server just use linux...Ive done a couple on windows and they are always a pain
4243 2011-05-10 20:20:01 <gjs278> can't really X forward conky that easy
4244 2011-05-10 20:20:10 <BlueMatt> oh, that conky
4245 2011-05-10 20:20:15 <gjs278> yeah
4246 2011-05-10 20:20:19 <BlueMatt> you should be able to forward that
4247 2011-05-10 20:20:24 <BlueMatt> I dont see why not
4248 2011-05-10 20:20:41 <BlueMatt> but seriously you can write a bash script that looks exactly like that in 10 seconds...
4249 2011-05-10 20:21:43 <gjs278> you can read conky over a termainl
4250 2011-05-10 20:21:46 <gjs278> terminal
4251 2011-05-10 20:22:01 <gjs278> I could just hit a button that would show me the same thing in a shell window
4252 2011-05-10 20:22:50 <BlueMatt> ok so why do you run x?
4253 2011-05-10 20:23:19 <cosurgi> kreal|: amdoverdrivectrl isn't working on my 5870
4254 2011-05-10 20:23:20 <gjs278> dont feel like using screen
4255 2011-05-10 20:23:30 <gjs278> I dock windows on the vnc and just leave them there to refer back to
4256 2011-05-10 20:23:58 <BlueMatt> so you install some crazy amount of software and a ton of cpucycles to run X when you could be using ssh?
4257 2011-05-10 20:24:03 <BlueMatt> and why do you need screen?
4258 2011-05-10 20:24:03 <diki> some people are born for linux, other for windows
4259 2011-05-10 20:24:09 <diki> for now windows is the leading OS
4260 2011-05-10 20:24:16 <gjs278> screen mainly because of system updates
4261 2011-05-10 20:24:20 <diki> especially for gaming..and oh wait, DirectX11
4262 2011-05-10 20:24:22 <gjs278> it takes a long time on a 800mhz cpu
4263 2011-05-10 20:24:23 <ArtForzZz> löl
4264 2011-05-10 20:24:24 <BlueMatt> diki: I have no problem with windows as an os, but as a server, it sucks...period
4265 2011-05-10 20:24:26 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4266 2011-05-10 20:24:27 <gjs278> especially because freebsd blocks
4267 2011-05-10 20:24:32 <gjs278> and asks you options
4268 2011-05-10 20:24:38 <grbgout> who cleaned up the bitcoin project directory (separating into doc/ src/ etc)?
4269 2011-05-10 20:24:46 <gjs278> so you have to refer back to the window every so often to pick what you want unless you set batch mode
4270 2011-05-10 20:24:47 <diki> That is why, i really hate consoles
4271 2011-05-10 20:24:53 <BlueMatt> grbgout: thats been pending for quite a while...
4272 2011-05-10 20:25:02 <diki> i've gotten used to them, but nothing can beat a gui
4273 2011-05-10 20:25:09 <gjs278> so with the vnc I just dock any update windows there and check back every so often
4274 2011-05-10 20:25:14 <gjs278> instead of just doing 3 screen sessions
4275 2011-05-10 20:25:14 <grbgout> BlueMatt: okay, and who did it? Just want to congratulate/thank them.
4276 2011-05-10 20:25:17 <BlueMatt> diki: there is nothing bad about consoles (well cmd.exe really sucks) but most consoles are just fine
4277 2011-05-10 20:25:20 <topace__> so i downloaded 0.3.21, but when i run it, it doesnt like my database
4278 2011-05-10 20:25:23 <forrestv> does a python bitcoin client exist?
4279 2011-05-10 20:25:24 <topace__> EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
4280 2011-05-10 20:25:24 <topace__> DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
4281 2011-05-10 20:25:24 <topace__> bitcoin in AppInit()
4282 2011-05-10 20:25:26 <BlueMatt> grbgout: jgarzik merged it, it was jaromil's commit
4283 2011-05-10 20:25:32 <ArtForzZz> knows everything, windows as a server... is diki 15?
4284 2011-05-10 20:25:42 <grbgout> jgarzik: kudos
4285 2011-05-10 20:25:47 <diki> chrome keeps updating silently and silently
4286 2011-05-10 20:25:58 <diki> i never ever see how it does it
4287 2011-05-10 20:26:01 <BlueMatt> what does that have to do with a server
4288 2011-05-10 20:26:20 <gjs278> X has used about 9:54 cpu time in 4 days
4289 2011-05-10 20:26:23 <diki> no i just noticed a new feature, thats why
4290 2011-05-10 20:26:23 <BlueMatt> gjs278: wait what is this about not being able to sit on a shell?
4291 2011-05-10 20:26:29 <diki> i thought my monitor was fucked tho
4292 2011-05-10 20:26:36 <gjs278> I don't feel like screening it
4293 2011-05-10 20:26:38 <gjs278> thats it
4294 2011-05-10 20:26:45 <BlueMatt> and I still dont see why you have to screen it?
4295 2011-05-10 20:26:52 <gjs278> because when you run updates on freebsd
4296 2011-05-10 20:26:54 <BlueMatt> plus its screen it takes 10 seconds to set up...
4297 2011-05-10 20:27:03 <gjs278> they ask you options before nearly every compile
4298 2011-05-10 20:27:10 <gjs278> unless you set batch mode to ignore them
4299 2011-05-10 20:27:11 <diki> topace: Really? Why do something with a lot of writing if you can do it with 2-3 clicks?
4300 2011-05-10 20:27:12 <BlueMatt> ah, and this has to do with conky?
4301 2011-05-10 20:27:18 <ArtForzZz> topace__: you ran a custom build before?
4302 2011-05-10 20:27:20 <cosurgi> cli is the best gui ever,
4303 2011-05-10 20:27:21 <gjs278> conky is just cool to look at
4304 2011-05-10 20:27:33 <topace__> ArtForzZz: yea i used to build from svn trunk regularily
4305 2011-05-10 20:27:33 <gjs278> so I combined them into their own window
4306 2011-05-10 20:27:33 <BlueMatt> and you cant look at it without screen?
4307 2011-05-10 20:27:48 <BlueMatt> I still fail to see the connection with updating and monitoring
4308 2011-05-10 20:27:50 <ArtForzZz> topace__: different bdb version
4309 2011-05-10 20:27:50 <cosurgi> you can setup various font styles if you wish, so it's graphical :)
4310 2011-05-10 20:27:52 <gjs278> I need the screen for updating
4311 2011-05-10 20:27:55 <ArtForzZz> delete ~/.bitcoin/database/log.*, try again
4312 2011-05-10 20:28:00 <gjs278> conky doesnt have to be in screen
4313 2011-05-10 20:28:07 <gjs278> but if I'm already leaving X up for the update windows
4314 2011-05-10 20:28:09 <ArtForzZz> bdb log files arent compatible between versions
4315 2011-05-10 20:28:11 <gjs278> one more app wont kill me
4316 2011-05-10 20:28:24 <BlueMatt> ah, ok that still doesnt explain why you use X for the update windows anyway?
4317 2011-05-10 20:28:35 <BlueMatt> you dont need to do that either, ssh works just fine does it now?
4318 2011-05-10 20:28:43 <gjs278> I would need screen for the updates
4319 2011-05-10 20:28:49 <gjs278> that's basically it
4320 2011-05-10 20:28:55 <gjs278> I could do the whole thing on ssh
4321 2011-05-10 20:29:08 <BlueMatt> so your entire reasoning is because you dont want to use screen, you use X and vnc instead...
4322 2011-05-10 20:29:16 <topace__> ArtForzZz: ahh, yup deleting the log worked
4323 2011-05-10 20:29:16 <topace__> thanks
4324 2011-05-10 20:29:18 <BlueMatt> ...wtf?
4325 2011-05-10 20:29:32 <ArtForzZz> screen = teh win
4326 2011-05-10 20:30:13 <gjs278> http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8915/screenshotrlt.png this is why
4327 2011-05-10 20:30:15 <gjs278> with one mouse click
4328 2011-05-10 20:30:17 <gjs278> I can see all of that
4329 2011-05-10 20:30:20 <gjs278> and then close it
4330 2011-05-10 20:30:38 <gjs278> usually the windows have system updates
4331 2011-05-10 20:30:43 <gjs278> I finally caught up though
4332 2011-05-10 20:31:00 <BlueMatt> with ssh and screen I can do the same, you know you can multiplex in screen right?
4333 2011-05-10 20:31:12 <grbgout> gjs278: is that fluxbox?
4334 2011-05-10 20:31:20 <gjs278> it is
4335 2011-05-10 20:31:23 <ArtForzZz> no he doesnt, because screen is evil ;)
4336 2011-05-10 20:31:28 <grbgout> I used to use flux
4337 2011-05-10 20:31:33 <gjs278> I could do it with screen
4338 2011-05-10 20:31:36 <gjs278> and then I'd have to type stuff
4339 2011-05-10 20:31:41 <gjs278> I can click the vnc window
4340 2011-05-10 20:31:43 <gjs278> look at this
4341 2011-05-10 20:31:44 <sipa> screen(1) BUGS:
4342 2011-05-10 20:31:44 <gjs278> and thats it
4343 2011-05-10 20:31:44 <sipa> · A weird imagination is most useful to gain full advantage of all the features.
4344 2011-05-10 20:31:55 <ArtForzZz> sipa: lol
4345 2011-05-10 20:31:59 <ArtForzZz> yeah
4346 2011-05-10 20:32:00 <BlueMatt> I could do it in vnc, but then Id have to click stuff
4347 2011-05-10 20:32:08 <gjs278> it takes a lot more effort
4348 2011-05-10 20:32:10 <gjs278> to use screen
4349 2011-05-10 20:32:11 <sipa> followed by:
4350 2011-05-10 20:32:11 <gjs278> than this
4351 2011-05-10 20:32:11 <sipa> · Send bug-reports, fixes, enhancements, t-shirts, money, beer & pizza to screen@uni-erlangen.de.
4352 2011-05-10 20:32:30 <grbgout> sipa: are you involved with bitbills.com?
4353 2011-05-10 20:32:35 <diki> this sqlite3 sucks, im going mysql
4354 2011-05-10 20:32:40 <ArtForzZz> "crazy things you can do with screen" aka "we herd u liek terminals"
4355 2011-05-10 20:32:42 <BlueMatt> I disagree but suit yourself, atleast you arent hosting a server on windows
4356 2011-05-10 20:32:57 <BlueMatt> diki: you realize sqlite and mysql are the two most different program uses in the world
4357 2011-05-10 20:33:14 <diki> i am more comfortable with mysql
4358 2011-05-10 20:33:29 <ArtForzZz> I prefer postgres </snob>
4359 2011-05-10 20:33:29 <gjs278> yeah but he means
4360 2011-05-10 20:33:34 <gjs278> sqlite3 doesnt suck
4361 2011-05-10 20:33:38 <gjs278> it's for embedded programs
4362 2011-05-10 20:33:45 <gjs278> that just want one file to distribute
4363 2011-05-10 20:33:51 <gjs278> instead of requiring a background daemon
4364 2011-05-10 20:33:58 <BlueMatt> yes, hence they are two very different use cases
4365 2011-05-10 20:34:11 <BlueMatt> I hate windows, Im going to a linux server for all my computing needs
4366 2011-05-10 20:34:14 <BlueMatt> makes no sense
4367 2011-05-10 20:34:15 <diki> websites run 250-300 queries per second and i havent seen any one of them fail so far
4368 2011-05-10 20:34:27 <ArtForzZz> yep, one is a poor excuse for a database, the other ... is sqlite
4369 2011-05-10 20:34:36 <BlueMatt> lol
4370 2011-05-10 20:35:11 <diki> my favorite editor for creating php stuff is notepad++ nothing can beat its simplicity and functionality
4371 2011-05-10 20:35:22 Ratt has joined
4372 2011-05-10 20:35:49 <BlueMatt> ok...that has nothing to do with windows/linux for servers debate
4373 2011-05-10 20:36:10 <topace__> so, i got the new client going, and i got a miner going and connected to the client... but the client doesnt say anything about the connected miner... is there a way to get info about connected miners?
4374 2011-05-10 20:36:12 <diki> deepbit website -> somekind of db medium -> pool
4375 2011-05-10 20:36:16 sgornick has joined
4376 2011-05-10 20:36:18 <ArtForzZz> well, there are places for windows servers
4377 2011-05-10 20:36:19 <BlueMatt> (and if you say you edit your php on the same machine you use to host a website, using a full-fledged editor, I might murder you)
4378 2011-05-10 20:36:27 <BlueMatt> ArtForzZz: yes domain controllers, etc
4379 2011-05-10 20:36:28 <diki> and since it's php it's most likely to be mysql
4380 2011-05-10 20:36:30 <BlueMatt> not websites
4381 2011-05-10 20:36:31 <ArtForzZz> yep
4382 2011-05-10 20:36:34 <ArtForzZz> exactly
4383 2011-05-10 20:36:58 <diki> for now i dont host anything
4384 2011-05-10 20:36:59 <BlueMatt> windows server is ideal only for when it is managing a bunch of windows clients...thats it
4385 2011-05-10 20:37:02 <gjs278> EXCHANGE SERVERS
4386 2011-05-10 20:37:08 <diki> i was planning on writing a manga reading website, but my dreams god ruined
4387 2011-05-10 20:37:17 <diki> and i wrote it for an year and a half
4388 2011-05-10 20:37:59 <diki> i took brakes though...few months :P
4389 2011-05-10 20:38:05 <BlueMatt> windows server got hacked?
4390 2011-05-10 20:38:16 <sipa> grbgout: no
4391 2011-05-10 20:38:25 <grbgout> k
4392 2011-05-10 20:39:08 <diki> the most beautiful code i've seen is MyBB's
4393 2011-05-10 20:39:14 <diki> *ever seen
4394 2011-05-10 20:44:18 fimp has joined
4395 2011-05-10 20:44:21 <brycek> lol php
4396 2011-05-10 20:44:29 <forrestv> topace__, connect it to a pool, not a client
4397 2011-05-10 20:44:40 <diki> and what is wrong with php?
4398 2011-05-10 20:44:51 <diki> It dominates most languages out there
4399 2011-05-10 20:44:55 <ArtForzZz> diki: php coders.
4400 2011-05-10 20:44:56 <diki> hell even facebook uses it
4401 2011-05-10 20:45:05 <xelister> noobbook
4402 2011-05-10 20:46:13 <brycek> facebook uses php compiled to c++ for the display layer, yeah
4403 2011-05-10 20:46:23 <diki> pic or it didnt happen
4404 2011-05-10 20:46:36 <diki> also there was a leak of their index page(could be fake tho) and it was pure php
4405 2011-05-10 20:46:38 <Ratt> You can't compile php to c++ that doesn't even make sense.
4406 2011-05-10 20:46:41 <brycek> https://github.com/facebook/hiphop-php
4407 2011-05-10 20:46:49 <BlueMatt> facebook also uses IPoAC to communicate to the backend
4408 2011-05-10 20:47:05 <jgarzik> heh
4409 2011-05-10 20:47:10 <gjs278> I really don't see why hiphop
4410 2011-05-10 20:47:15 <gjs278> can't use eval in pph
4411 2011-05-10 20:47:15 <Ratt> c++ is an english readable language which gets compiled to machine code.
4412 2011-05-10 20:47:21 <gjs278> surely there's an eval equiv in c++
4413 2011-05-10 20:47:25 <brycek> there's not
4414 2011-05-10 20:47:26 <sipa> BlueMatt: no, it uses IPoSN :D
4415 2011-05-10 20:47:28 <brycek> but eval is evil
4416 2011-05-10 20:47:32 <ArtForzZz> diki, Ratt: pwned.
4417 2011-05-10 20:47:38 <jgarzik> C++ is not very readable, when the compiler starts spitting out warnings and errors
4418 2011-05-10 20:47:41 <BlueMatt> sipa: recursion error
4419 2011-05-10 20:47:50 <gjs278> wait nevermind
4420 2011-05-10 20:47:55 <gjs278> I thought they meant system()
4421 2011-05-10 20:47:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: facebook *is* recursion, my fiend
4422 2011-05-10 20:47:59 <gjs278> you can still send through systems()
4423 2011-05-10 20:48:00 <sipa> *friend
4424 2011-05-10 20:48:08 <BlueMatt> sipa: deep...
4425 2011-05-10 20:48:20 * TD hearts C++
4426 2011-05-10 20:48:30 * Ratt prefers C
4427 2011-05-10 20:48:38 * Ratt likes spaghetti.
4428 2011-05-10 20:48:47 * BlueMatt takes out a gun and shoots everyone because he hates languages
4429 2011-05-10 20:48:49 <jgarzik> TD: google indoctination, there
4430 2011-05-10 20:48:50 <ArtForzZz> mmmh, spaghetti
4431 2011-05-10 20:48:51 <jgarzik> ;)
4432 2011-05-10 20:48:55 <BlueMatt> why cant we all just get along?
4433 2011-05-10 20:48:55 <TD> heh
4434 2011-05-10 20:48:55 <brycek> c++ is a bunch of different languages that all use the same compiler
4435 2011-05-10 20:48:57 <diki> i need new music
4436 2011-05-10 20:48:58 <jgarzik> indoctrination, even
4437 2011-05-10 20:48:59 <gjs278> I do not like languages that have the whole type restriction
4438 2011-05-10 20:49:11 blablaa has left ()
4439 2011-05-10 20:49:13 <luke-jr> gjs278: C++ is compiled. There is no language parser at runtime
4440 2011-05-10 20:49:14 <gjs278> if you needed a string as input, and I gave you an int
4441 2011-05-10 20:49:15 <gjs278> take care of it
4442 2011-05-10 20:49:22 <ArtForzZz> BlueMatt: where would be the fun in that, btw. python w/ C extensions FTW
4443 2011-05-10 20:49:36 <ArtForzZz> gjs278: that makes no sense
4444 2011-05-10 20:49:39 <gjs278> yeah I had eval and system mixed up
4445 2011-05-10 20:49:43 <gjs278> yes it does
4446 2011-05-10 20:49:48 <ArtForzZz> so 1 == "1" ?
4447 2011-05-10 20:49:55 <diki> the other thing in php is you are not bothered with declaring variable type
4448 2011-05-10 20:49:56 <gjs278> it does
4449 2011-05-10 20:49:57 <brycek> gjs278: type systems solve a lot of the problems that plague php apps
4450 2011-05-10 20:49:58 <gjs278> if you want exact checking
4451 2011-05-10 20:50:00 <Ratt> well, I agree that is handy.
4452 2011-05-10 20:50:00 <gjs278> do
4453 2011-05-10 20:50:01 <gjs278> ===
4454 2011-05-10 20:50:02 <jgarzik> python's ability to create an interface (python object API) for a C library is amazing. Some guy whipped up a python lib for my distributed storage project in < 100 LOC
4455 2011-05-10 20:50:03 <sipa> ArtForzZz: yes, but 1 !== "1" :D
4456 2011-05-10 20:50:06 <gjs278> no they dont
4457 2011-05-10 20:50:09 <jgarzik> directed called the C functions from python
4458 2011-05-10 20:50:09 <gjs278> type systems are bullshit
4459 2011-05-10 20:50:14 <TD> ah yes
4460 2011-05-10 20:50:17 <TD> the triple equals operator
4461 2011-05-10 20:50:17 <diki> 1 or 1=1-- :D
4462 2011-05-10 20:50:23 * TD marvels at phps genius
4463 2011-05-10 20:50:24 <brycek> http://blog.moertel.com/articles/2006/10/18/a-type-based-solution-to-the-strings-problem
4464 2011-05-10 20:50:29 <gjs278> it's a waste of time having to screw with types because strcat or strcpy can't handle it
4465 2011-05-10 20:50:32 <jgarzik> usually calling a C function from a script language involves a lot more marshalling and gadgetry
4466 2011-05-10 20:50:50 <sipa> gjs278: i use a language were often when it compiles, it works :D (haskell)
4467 2011-05-10 20:50:50 <ArtForzZz> jgarzik: ctypes?
4468 2011-05-10 20:51:00 <sipa> and that's because of the type system
4469 2011-05-10 20:51:17 <jgarzik> I don't recall what he used :/
4470 2011-05-10 20:51:26 <gjs278> I never have type issues in php
4471 2011-05-10 20:51:34 <jgarzik> it was tiny, elegant, and in python ;p
4472 2011-05-10 20:51:36 <sipa> php has no types :D
4473 2011-05-10 20:51:43 <ArtForzZz> jgarzik: sounds like good python, then
4474 2011-05-10 20:51:48 <brycek> gjs278: never xss or sql injection problems?
4475 2011-05-10 20:51:51 <gjs278> no
4476 2011-05-10 20:51:55 <ArtForzZz> python has objects
4477 2011-05-10 20:51:56 <gjs278> mysql_real_escape_string or pdo
4478 2011-05-10 20:51:56 <ArtForzZz> ;)
4479 2011-05-10 20:52:08 <gjs278> xss is htmlentities()'s away
4480 2011-05-10 20:52:09 <brycek> every time?
4481 2011-05-10 20:52:17 <gjs278> well if you use pdo for everything
4482 2011-05-10 20:52:20 <gjs278> then yeah everytime
4483 2011-05-10 20:52:29 <gjs278> for sql injection that is
4484 2011-05-10 20:52:32 <jgarzik> I would prefer a hybrid, though. Compiled python, a bit more strongly typed. Something like rpython, but not quite.
4485 2011-05-10 20:52:42 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
4486 2011-05-10 20:53:08 <gjs278> I don't do straight mysql_query() stuff in scripts unless its just some kind of cleanup script or whatever
4487 2011-05-10 20:53:13 <diki> one advice from me...never use addslashes...bypassable as easy as taking candy from a baby
4488 2011-05-10 20:53:16 <gjs278> everything else is class'ed away and in pdo
4489 2011-05-10 20:53:45 <brycek> pdo looks like it's just a convenient way to treat a sql statement and parameters inside that statement as⦠different types
4490 2011-05-10 20:53:56 <brycek> er, inconvenient, since you have to do a lot of function calls
4491 2011-05-10 20:54:05 <gjs278> it's not too bad
4492 2011-05-10 20:54:19 <gjs278> even if I didn't go pdo, mysql_real_escape_string would cover it
4493 2011-05-10 20:54:30 <brycek> if you remembered it every time
4494 2011-05-10 20:54:31 <diki> or sqlesc :P
4495 2011-05-10 20:54:33 <gjs278> lol
4496 2011-05-10 20:54:34 <gjs278> well
4497 2011-05-10 20:54:41 <brycek> strong typing means the compiler won't let you forget it
4498 2011-05-10 20:54:47 <gjs278> ok
4499 2011-05-10 20:54:51 <gjs278> if you accept a string input
4500 2011-05-10 20:54:54 phantomcircuit has joined
4501 2011-05-10 20:54:55 <gjs278> and that is the type of it
4502 2011-05-10 20:54:59 <gjs278> and that string has sql injection
4503 2011-05-10 20:55:05 <gjs278> then... typing doesnt matter in that instance
4504 2011-05-10 20:55:27 <diki> sql injection is only possible if you dont escape the needed characters
4505 2011-05-10 20:55:39 <brycek> it does if the query methods only take sql strings, and the only way to make those is either a compile-time macro or a function that escapes the input
4506 2011-05-10 20:55:41 <diki> so is XSS
4507 2011-05-10 20:55:42 <ArtForzZz> gjs278: you fail.
4508 2011-05-10 20:55:45 <ArtForzZz> yep
4509 2011-05-10 20:56:12 <brycek> the compile would fail just as if you passed a floating point or null instead of a sqlstring to the query method
4510 2011-05-10 20:56:13 <gjs278> if you let someone enter a sql injection and you don't filter it out, it will have the same effect in any language
4511 2011-05-10 20:56:17 <gjs278> okay
4512 2011-05-10 20:56:19 <gjs278> I'm talking about a form
4513 2011-05-10 20:56:22 <gjs278> that takes someone's name
4514 2011-05-10 20:56:24 <gjs278> the name is a string
4515 2011-05-10 20:56:40 <gjs278> unless you have a method in your language for cleaning that input
4516 2011-05-10 20:56:51 <brycek> ok so your app server sends that to the application as an inputstring type
4517 2011-05-10 20:56:52 <gjs278> if you passed it straight to mysql, any type setting in the world wont take out the sql injection
4518 2011-05-10 20:57:05 <brycek> and the sql api only accepts sqlstrings
4519 2011-05-10 20:57:09 <diki> what kind of an idiot would pass an unprotected string to mysql?
4520 2011-05-10 20:57:24 <sipa> answer: way too many
4521 2011-05-10 20:57:25 <ArtForzZz> gjs278: brycek gets typing, you don't.
4522 2011-05-10 20:57:25 <gjs278> it would still be a valid sqlstring
4523 2011-05-10 20:57:26 <brycek> if you try to query with an inputstring the compiler will complain about a wrong type
4524 2011-05-10 20:57:29 <BlueMatt> diki: the programmers at mysql.com
4525 2011-05-10 20:57:47 <gjs278> how is '-- or 1=1' not a valid name
4526 2011-05-10 20:57:55 <gjs278> that's still a string
4527 2011-05-10 20:58:12 <gjs278> you have to validate it and type won't validate it for you
4528 2011-05-10 20:58:14 <brycek> you have to think beyond strings and think about different ways you could classify strings
4529 2011-05-10 20:58:29 <gjs278> if you just do string username; there's no protection implied with that
4530 2011-05-10 20:58:29 <brycek> type can most certainly do that
4531 2011-05-10 20:58:38 <ArtForzZz> *facepalm*
4532 2011-05-10 20:58:46 <diki> how is 0x27 mutated to ' from mysql?
4533 2011-05-10 20:58:46 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, what they're saying is that you change the sql interface to only accept sqlstrings, which are automagically quoted
4534 2011-05-10 20:59:13 <gjs278> that's the same thing as doing mysql_real_escape_string on any var
4535 2011-05-10 20:59:15 <gjs278> or
4536 2011-05-10 20:59:16 <gjs278> using pdo
4537 2011-05-10 20:59:21 <sipa> of course it is the same
4538 2011-05-10 20:59:32 <sipa> the operational semantics don't change because of typing
4539 2011-05-10 20:59:39 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, it's the same as using pdo
4540 2011-05-10 20:59:39 <ArtForzZz> except YOU CAN'T FORGET IT
4541 2011-05-10 20:59:45 <gjs278> you can't forget
4542 2011-05-10 20:59:47 <gjs278> to use pdo
4543 2011-05-10 20:59:48 <gjs278> either
4544 2011-05-10 20:59:50 <sipa> the difference is that you don't need to remember to do that call
4545 2011-05-10 20:59:51 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, it's not the same as using mysql_real_escape_string
4546 2011-05-10 20:59:53 <sipa> of couse you can
4547 2011-05-10 21:00:04 <gjs278> how can you forget to use pdo if that's what the entire project is using
4548 2011-05-10 21:00:14 <sipa> if you're drunk maybe
4549 2011-05-10 21:00:20 <sipa> or stupid
4550 2011-05-10 21:00:21 <sipa> or tired
4551 2011-05-10 21:00:24 <ArtForzZz> <gjs278> that's the same thing as doing mysql_real_escape_string on any var
4552 2011-05-10 21:00:30 <gjs278> you can forget that for sure
4553 2011-05-10 21:00:32 <gjs278> but not pdo
4554 2011-05-10 21:01:03 <diki> the easies way is to write a shorter function and make it return mysql_real.....
4555 2011-05-10 21:01:17 <diki> that's how everybody does it
4556 2011-05-10 21:01:52 <ArtForzZz> diki: yes, thanks for your ultimate knowledge, mr. "what's the difference between mysql and sqlite"
4557 2011-05-10 21:01:56 <brycek> the easiest way is to use an environment that makes forgetting it impossible
4558 2011-05-10 21:01:58 sentry has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4559 2011-05-10 21:02:07 <gjs278> what if you forget to set the sqlstring type
4560 2011-05-10 21:02:11 <gjs278> what if?????????
4561 2011-05-10 21:02:14 <brycek> compiler error
4562 2011-05-10 21:02:15 <diki> did i ask that "what's the difference between mysql and sqlite"?
4563 2011-05-10 21:02:17 <diki> no i didnt
4564 2011-05-10 21:02:23 <ArtForzZz> compiler barfs on you
4565 2011-05-10 21:02:24 <diki> i said i prefer mysql
4566 2011-05-10 21:02:49 Ratt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
4567 2011-05-10 21:02:51 <BlueMatt> you cant really prefer one over the other, the use cases are too different
4568 2011-05-10 21:02:59 <TD> this conversation is awesome
4569 2011-05-10 21:03:02 <BlueMatt> one is useful in one situation the other in a different situation
4570 2011-05-10 21:03:04 <diki> Me, doesnt care
4571 2011-05-10 21:03:13 <gjs278> how would I send the query "UPDATE `table` SET `name`='New_Name'"
4572 2011-05-10 21:03:16 <gjs278> in the sqlstring
4573 2011-05-10 21:03:29 <gjs278> let New_Name be the var
4574 2011-05-10 21:03:56 <phantomcircuit> ArtForzZz, to be fair you *could* still screw it up, but you'd have to be doing so on purpose
4575 2011-05-10 21:04:00 <gjs278> for some reason there's no where clause, it's a small table
4576 2011-05-10 21:04:12 <ArtForzZz> phantomcircuit: agreed
4577 2011-05-10 21:04:26 <ArtForzZz> but then you can shoot yourself in the foot in any language.
4578 2011-05-10 21:04:29 <brycek> "update `table` set `name`=#{new_name}", and the casting operation from userstring to sqlstring includes escaping it correctly
4579 2011-05-10 21:04:31 <ArtForzZz> just some make it easier than others.
4580 2011-05-10 21:04:47 <gjs278> okay
4581 2011-05-10 21:04:52 <gjs278> is it possible to do that same query
4582 2011-05-10 21:04:58 <gjs278> without restricing new_name to the sqlstring
4583 2011-05-10 21:05:00 <gjs278> casting
4584 2011-05-10 21:05:19 <gjs278> because that's basically the exact same scenario as forgetting to use pdo if you can
4585 2011-05-10 21:05:23 <brycek> no, because you wouldn
4586 2011-05-10 21:05:27 larsivi has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
4587 2011-05-10 21:05:32 <gjs278> because I wouldn't is not an answer
4588 2011-05-10 21:05:39 <gjs278> I wouldn't forget to use pdo either
4589 2011-05-10 21:05:58 <brycek> no, because the framework wouldn't define any other ways to get a userstring into the sql api
4590 2011-05-10 21:06:22 <diki> UPDATE `table` SET `name`='"'".mysql_real_escape_string('blah')."'"'
4591 2011-05-10 21:06:40 <brycek> ok now look at what you wrote compared to what i wrote and tell me it's not an atrocity
4592 2011-05-10 21:06:52 <gjs278> so it would be impossible for me to execute a sql statement that contained new_name unless I ran new_name through the casting operation
4593 2011-05-10 21:06:58 <brycek> exactly
4594 2011-05-10 21:07:01 <gjs278> I would never write that
4595 2011-05-10 21:07:06 * ArtForzZz goes looking for the cluebat
4596 2011-05-10 21:07:17 <brycek> read the newspeak appendix to "1984"
4597 2011-05-10 21:07:41 <diki> that is why, function blah($arg){ return "'".mysql_real_escape_string('blah')."'"; }
4598 2011-05-10 21:07:45 jivvz has joined
4599 2011-05-10 21:07:47 <brycek> it's not so much an easy way to avoid sql injection as it is a new language in which sql injection is impossible to write
4600 2011-05-10 21:07:48 <gjs278> my eyes
4601 2011-05-10 21:07:58 <ArtForzZz> the goggles...
4602 2011-05-10 21:08:34 <gjs278> and is the avoidance of sql injection due to the sql library in the language
4603 2011-05-10 21:09:10 <brycek> yes
4604 2011-05-10 21:09:13 <gjs278> because in all seriousness I don't use mysql_query() unless it's taking no user inputs
4605 2011-05-10 21:09:24 <brycek> rails 3 did the same with xss and html escaping
4606 2011-05-10 21:09:37 Lachesis has joined
4607 2011-05-10 21:09:37 <Lachesis> c
4608 2011-05-10 21:09:42 <jgarzik> b
4609 2011-05-10 21:09:44 <ArtForzZz> a
4610 2011-05-10 21:09:44 <brycek> a
4611 2011-05-10 21:09:51 <brycek> 123 you owe me a coke
4612 2011-05-10 21:09:59 <gjs278> it's not really an issue then, as long as I'm using pdo I'll have the same level of protection as anything else
4613 2011-05-10 21:10:03 <gjs278> I mean I guess I could go crazy
4614 2011-05-10 21:10:05 <gjs278> and forget to pdo
4615 2011-05-10 21:10:10 <gjs278> and use an entirely different method instead
4616 2011-05-10 21:10:29 <phantomcircuit> which i might add is trivially detected
4617 2011-05-10 21:10:51 <brycek> or use an environment where you don't have to write a million little prepares and binds to run a simple query
4618 2011-05-10 21:11:17 <diki> look, php is barely affected by a few thousands lines of codes
4619 2011-05-10 21:11:28 <gjs278> the goggles
4620 2011-05-10 21:11:30 <jivvz> are you guys talking about ruby on rails?
4621 2011-05-10 21:11:30 <diki> barely as in 0,00XXX percent
4622 2011-05-10 21:11:30 <gjs278> fucking do nothing
4623 2011-05-10 21:11:46 <brycek> diki: dfc about the runtime, i care about the developer
4624 2011-05-10 21:11:49 <brycek> jivvz: maaayyyybe
4625 2011-05-10 21:11:51 <brycek> :)
4626 2011-05-10 21:11:56 <jivvz> hehe
4627 2011-05-10 21:12:17 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
4628 2011-05-10 21:12:26 <jivvz> im just learning django
4629 2011-05-10 21:12:31 <sipa> for a second on-topic
4630 2011-05-10 21:12:33 <gjs278> the app would be perfectly fine on ruby until it tried to scale past 20 users
4631 2011-05-10 21:12:35 <brycek> django owns too
4632 2011-05-10 21:12:37 <jivvz> dont know ruby...
4633 2011-05-10 21:12:46 <sipa> do you also have troubles finding a node to connect to?
4634 2011-05-10 21:12:57 <sipa> unless using -addnode?
4635 2011-05-10 21:13:09 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, nah ruby scales well, you just provision 1 dedicated server for every 10 users
4636 2011-05-10 21:13:12 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, magic!
4637 2011-05-10 21:13:16 <brycek> gjs278: ssh, don't tell groupon
4638 2011-05-10 21:13:16 <ArtForzZz> sipa: no, only on testnet
4639 2011-05-10 21:13:23 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, thats why Ive been asking MagicalTux for his node list -> mysql script for the past week
4640 2011-05-10 21:13:24 <gjs278> I told it to twitter instead
4641 2011-05-10 21:13:36 <BlueMatt> put it into a pdns database and boom, you have a perfect dnsseed
4642 2011-05-10 21:14:23 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, well shit i can send you a node list that encompasses all the nodes on the network pretty trivially
4643 2011-05-10 21:14:46 <BlueMatt> Well I know its not hard, but Im just too lazy to write it
4644 2011-05-10 21:14:53 <BlueMatt> not a node list, a node list script
4645 2011-05-10 21:14:56 <gjs278> Now you take this home, throw it in a pot, add some broth, a potato. Baby, you've got a stew going.
4646 2011-05-10 21:15:13 <brycek> i should watch predator again
4647 2011-05-10 21:15:22 <BlueMatt> and not just all nodes, all nodes which accept incoming connections
4648 2011-05-10 21:15:26 fimp has joined
4649 2011-05-10 21:15:30 <diki> oh arny :P
4650 2011-05-10 21:15:32 <BlueMatt> hence you need to build a half-node
4651 2011-05-10 21:15:36 <diki> arnie*
4652 2011-05-10 21:15:38 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: djb's tinydns server takes a simple name:ip text file list as input. can be replaced in situ. would be great for DNS seeding.
4653 2011-05-10 21:15:39 <gjs278> the predator didn't typecheck his escape sequence and ended up blowing himself up
4654 2011-05-10 21:16:06 <sipa> is that normal? i've got bitcoind running for a few minutes, and it has attempted *two* connections to other nodes?
4655 2011-05-10 21:16:08 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: that too, doesnt matter what does it, a half-node logger is whats needed
4656 2011-05-10 21:16:17 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, my python node implementation builds a sqlite db of all nodes, from that you could trivially try to connect to all fo them
4657 2011-05-10 21:16:21 <jgarzik> yep
4658 2011-05-10 21:16:22 <sipa> (just current upstream master)
4659 2011-05-10 21:16:24 <diki> I know this is the dev channel but only talking about programming....is fucking boring
4660 2011-05-10 21:16:32 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: please write it, Im much too lazy
4661 2011-05-10 21:16:40 <jgarzik> ArtForz's half-a-node is in git
4662 2011-05-10 21:16:41 <BlueMatt> diki: then leave
4663 2011-05-10 21:16:42 <jgarzik> pushpool git
4664 2011-05-10 21:16:44 <brycek> diki: find a more fun channel then
4665 2011-05-10 21:16:51 <brycek> use your bitcoins to buy a multitasking irc client
4666 2011-05-10 21:17:01 <diki> rizon is fun
4667 2011-05-10 21:17:02 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: the thing is, MT's script already puts it in a mysql db for me, everything else I'd have to write something
4668 2011-05-10 21:17:12 <sipa> was it always that slow in trying to connect?
4669 2011-05-10 21:17:28 <BlueMatt> anyway, jgarzik, you run one of the 2 dnsseeds, cant you write it?
4670 2011-05-10 21:17:35 diki has left ()
4671 2011-05-10 21:17:52 <cosurgi> guys, wtf @ mtgox ? this is serious. They will buy out all stock, and what then>
4672 2011-05-10 21:17:53 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: can I? of course. :)
4673 2011-05-10 21:18:03 <BlueMatt> will you?
4674 2011-05-10 21:18:07 <gjs278> they cant buy out all stock
4675 2011-05-10 21:18:09 <gjs278> thats impossible
4676 2011-05-10 21:18:22 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4677 2011-05-10 21:18:24 <BlueMatt> gjs278: impossible? no hard? yes
4678 2011-05-10 21:18:32 <sipa> gjs278: sure can, but new stock will quickly be added, at a higher price
4679 2011-05-10 21:18:33 <gjs278> once there is only one bitcoin left on mtgox
4680 2011-05-10 21:18:37 <gjs278> they just price it a over 9000
4681 2011-05-10 21:18:55 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, and the FED prints some USD
4682 2011-05-10 21:19:05 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
4683 2011-05-10 21:19:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 55276229.0995 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 3 hours, 23 minutes, and 52 seconds
4684 2011-05-10 21:19:13 <gjs278> over 9000 is relative to how much money it needs to be
4685 2011-05-10 21:19:16 <gjs278> it could be 1000000
4686 2011-05-10 21:19:19 <gjs278> thats still over 9000
4687 2011-05-10 21:19:29 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, it could be infinity +1
4688 2011-05-10 21:19:32 <BlueMatt> all that matters is that its over 9000
4689 2011-05-10 21:19:38 <jrabbit> wow
4690 2011-05-10 21:19:44 <sipa> anyone an idea why there is a ToStringLog() function in CAddress that simply returns ""?
4691 2011-05-10 21:20:10 <cosurgi> all mtgox trading seems to be darkpool now.
4692 2011-05-10 21:20:13 <sipa> weird privacy measure to prevent IP addresses from ending up in logs?
4693 2011-05-10 21:20:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: unimplemented feature I suppose, someone wanted to log addresses but never got around to id
4694 2011-05-10 21:20:16 <luke-jr> wtf, is Eligius seriously getting a block every 5 blocks?
4695 2011-05-10 21:20:24 <gjs278> tell you what
4696 2011-05-10 21:20:28 <gjs278> if mtgox starts running out of coins
4697 2011-05-10 21:20:29 <sipa> BlueMatt: but there is a perfectly fine ToString() function
4698 2011-05-10 21:20:33 <gjs278> I'll sell some to them
4699 2011-05-10 21:20:36 <cosurgi> there are so little offers listed
4700 2011-05-10 21:20:36 <gjs278> for over 9000
4701 2011-05-10 21:20:37 <jgarzik> luke-jr: people are pointing some decent GPU power at your pool
4702 2011-05-10 21:20:42 <luke-jr> gjs278: MtGox won't.
4703 2011-05-10 21:20:56 <gjs278> I know they wont
4704 2011-05-10 21:21:02 <luke-jr> jgarzik: yeah, but 55 GH isn't *that* much to get 1 of every 5-6 is it?
4705 2011-05-10 21:21:13 <jgarzik> luke-jr: some days will be lucky days, too
4706 2011-05-10 21:21:15 <gjs278> ron paul is buying all of the bitcoins
4707 2011-05-10 21:21:23 <gjs278> he needs a replacement for ron paul bucks
4708 2011-05-10 21:21:26 <luke-jr> jgarzik: this streak has 4 blocks in it :P
4709 2011-05-10 21:21:29 <jgarzik> luke-jr: remember today when you're at 400 Ghps and getting nothing ;p
4710 2011-05-10 21:21:35 <luke-jr> haha
4711 2011-05-10 21:21:36 <brycek> solamente ron paul apoya el estandar de bitcoin
4712 2011-05-10 21:21:43 <ArtForzZz> luke-jr: man random
4713 2011-05-10 21:22:13 <gjs278> I found 50 blocks in a row due to random
4714 2011-05-10 21:22:40 <gjs278> mystery miner was just some kid who got really lucky
4715 2011-05-10 21:22:45 <phantomcircuit> brycek, wat
4716 2011-05-10 21:23:02 <sipa> ok little experiment: delete your addr.dat file, start bitcoin without any special options, how long does it take to connect?
4717 2011-05-10 21:23:06 <gjs278> he had a string ready for us but accidentally ran it through a language preprocessor
4718 2011-05-10 21:23:07 <brycek> "only ron paul supports the gold standard"
4719 2011-05-10 21:23:08 <sipa> current git master
4720 2011-05-10 21:23:11 <brycek> er, bitcoin standard
4721 2011-05-10 21:23:17 <brycek> (last election cycle it was gold standard)
4722 2011-05-10 21:23:20 <BlueMatt> gjs278: and used a modified miner which was required because he had so much hash power
4723 2011-05-10 21:23:25 <cosurgi> luke-jr: I'm joining back in about 8 hours. I want to have a full log
4724 2011-05-10 21:23:34 <BlueMatt> sipa: forever, hence my dnsseed suggestion to jgarzik
4725 2011-05-10 21:24:00 <sipa> how do we even expect newcomers to reach the network? :S
4726 2011-05-10 21:24:01 <cosurgi> luke-jr: and we will see if tycho has duplicates too
4727 2011-05-10 21:24:08 Lachesis has left ("Leaving")
4728 2011-05-10 21:24:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: yep
4729 2011-05-10 21:24:19 <sipa> it seems it only tries a connection every 500s, if i read the code correctly
4730 2011-05-10 21:24:40 <sipa> i understand privacy issues, but at least during initial connection, it should be way faster?
4731 2011-05-10 21:24:46 <BlueMatt> is that just for static nodes, or irc as well?
4732 2011-05-10 21:24:58 <jrabbit> woah mtgox isbooming :\
4733 2011-05-10 21:24:58 <xelister> uuhh ohh
4734 2011-05-10 21:25:04 <xelister> my mouse cursor dissapeared!!!
4735 2011-05-10 21:25:09 * jrabbit feels silly for selling a few a while ago
4736 2011-05-10 21:25:09 <gjs278> no that is definitey not cause for :\ face
4737 2011-05-10 21:25:13 <gjs278> oh
4738 2011-05-10 21:25:14 <gjs278> well that is
4739 2011-05-10 21:25:16 <jrabbit> :P
4740 2011-05-10 21:25:30 <xelister> if I timeout in next 2 minutes, tell THANKS to ATI devels for mouse-hangs-computer ;)
4741 2011-05-10 21:25:37 <ArtForzZz> xelister: it's pining for the fjords
4742 2011-05-10 21:25:43 <jrabbit> I can't code a bot to play with with this high of a price :P
4743 2011-05-10 21:25:54 <xelister> ohh thats a new bug
4744 2011-05-10 21:25:55 <forrestv> exactly what is hashed to get a block's hash?
4745 2011-05-10 21:25:59 <xelister> mouse is not on the screen
4746 2011-05-10 21:26:01 <gjs278> on the ati drivers if I extend my X along the side and I push my mouse to the edge
4747 2011-05-10 21:26:03 <sipa> BlueMatt: if i read it correctly, for everything except -connect and -addnode
4748 2011-05-10 21:26:03 <xelister> but the X did not haned yet
4749 2011-05-10 21:26:05 <gjs278> then I will lose my mouse
4750 2011-05-10 21:26:07 <xelister> hurray new bug.
4751 2011-05-10 21:26:09 <ArtForzZz> the hash of the hash of the block header
4752 2011-05-10 21:26:14 <sipa> BlueMatt: but i'm very tired and need sleep, so i may be wrong
4753 2011-05-10 21:26:16 <BlueMatt> sipa: ah, well that does need changed
4754 2011-05-10 21:26:20 <forrestv> version + prev_block + merkle_root + timestamp + bits + nonce doesn't work
4755 2011-05-10 21:26:30 wereHamster has joined
4756 2011-05-10 21:26:33 npouillard has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
4757 2011-05-10 21:26:37 <ArtForzZz> forrestv: yes it does
4758 2011-05-10 21:27:05 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
4759 2011-05-10 21:27:13 <xelister> watch me as I do the most dengerous thing possible in IT world!
4760 2011-05-10 21:27:16 <xelister> I will restart X server
4761 2011-05-10 21:27:21 <xelister> with Radeon binary driver!!!
4762 2011-05-10 21:27:26 <gjs278> thats not dangerous
4763 2011-05-10 21:27:26 <luke-jr> xelister: fail
4764 2011-05-10 21:27:28 <gjs278> that's safe
4765 2011-05-10 21:27:33 <gjs278> unless you crashed
4766 2011-05-10 21:27:33 * xelister attempts this epic feat
4767 2011-05-10 21:27:33 <luke-jr> no, it's dangerous
4768 2011-05-10 21:27:35 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4769 2011-05-10 21:27:36 <gjs278> if you crashed don't do it
4770 2011-05-10 21:27:37 <luke-jr> that's why I do it in a VM
4771 2011-05-10 21:27:39 <sipa> xelister: i do it continuously :)
4772 2011-05-10 21:27:46 <sipa> when i need to restart miner
4773 2011-05-10 21:27:49 <gjs278> I do it all of the time but never if I see a crash coming
4774 2011-05-10 21:27:58 <gjs278> like if a card stops hashing or something
4775 2011-05-10 21:28:04 <gjs278> killing X will hang the system completely
4776 2011-05-10 21:28:05 <luke-jr> sipa: I use xev to keep X open :P
4777 2011-05-10 21:28:28 <luke-jr> gjs278: no big deal, I just reboot my mining VM :D
4778 2011-05-10 21:28:37 xelister has joined
4779 2011-05-10 21:28:37 <sipa> luke-jr: i don't want it to :)
4780 2011-05-10 21:28:40 <luke-jr> well, stop it, power off the PCI-E slot, then start it
4781 2011-05-10 21:28:41 <xelister> hazaa!
4782 2011-05-10 21:28:49 <luke-jr> s/off/cycle
4783 2011-05-10 21:28:50 <gjs278> luke-jr do you have vt-d yet
4784 2011-05-10 21:28:53 <luke-jr> yep
4785 2011-05-10 21:28:56 <gjs278> like can you grab temps
4786 2011-05-10 21:28:56 <ArtForzZz> luke-jr: yup, PCI passthrough is fun
4787 2011-05-10 21:28:58 <gjs278> oh ok
4788 2011-05-10 21:29:07 <luke-jr> ArtForzZz: btw, how do you reset the card?
4789 2011-05-10 21:29:14 <luke-jr> gjs278: temps? dunno. :p
4790 2011-05-10 21:29:16 <gjs278> static electricity
4791 2011-05-10 21:29:21 <luke-jr> gjs278: I just do all the mining inside the VM
4792 2011-05-10 21:29:25 <gjs278> oh
4793 2011-05-10 21:29:26 <gjs278> well
4794 2011-05-10 21:29:32 <gjs278> you can check your temps on the host right
4795 2011-05-10 21:29:36 <luke-jr> no
4796 2011-05-10 21:29:40 <gjs278> hmm
4797 2011-05-10 21:29:42 <luke-jr> host doesn't have fglrx\
4798 2011-05-10 21:29:45 <luke-jr> so..
4799 2011-05-10 21:29:46 <gjs278> ah
4800 2011-05-10 21:29:47 <gjs278> yeah
4801 2011-05-10 21:30:08 <luke-jr> in practice, I'm not sure how to properly power cycle the PCI-E slot
4802 2011-05-10 21:30:14 <ArtForzZz> luke-jr: I just issue a PCIe reset
4803 2011-05-10 21:30:22 <luke-jr> ArtForzZz: but *how* :P
4804 2011-05-10 21:30:33 <luke-jr> is there some /sys thing?
4805 2011-05-10 21:30:35 <ArtForzZz> it's in the spec
4806 2011-05-10 21:30:39 <luke-jr> â¦
4807 2011-05-10 21:30:42 <luke-jr> what spec?
4808 2011-05-10 21:30:48 <ArtForzZz> PCIe spec, duh
4809 2011-05-10 21:30:48 <BlueMatt> ArtForzZz: so you modified your kernel or what?
4810 2011-05-10 21:30:51 npouillard has joined
4811 2011-05-10 21:30:55 <luke-jr> ArtForzZz: that doesn't define APIs
4812 2011-05-10 21:31:23 <ArtForzZz> you can do it from userspace on a stock linux kernel
4813 2011-05-10 21:31:35 <BlueMatt> but how?
4814 2011-05-10 21:31:51 <gjs278> if you know the command
4815 2011-05-10 21:31:57 <gjs278> that would be fun
4816 2011-05-10 21:32:50 <gjs278> does it involve setpci
4817 2011-05-10 21:33:01 <ArtForzZz> yup
4818 2011-05-10 21:33:12 <BlueMatt> do you wish to share?
4819 2011-05-10 21:33:18 <ArtForzZz> no
4820 2011-05-10 21:33:40 <BlueMatt> what kindergarten did you not go to?
4821 2011-05-10 21:33:42 <gjs278> hmm
4822 2011-05-10 21:33:50 <gjs278> I wonder what will happen if I reset the slot I'm using
4823 2011-05-10 21:34:17 <cosurgi> nah. ati smells, this is why I use dedicated miners. and reboot them at whim,
4824 2011-05-10 21:34:30 <gjs278> wow 6 invalid shares on deep in the last minute
4825 2011-05-10 21:34:55 <ErrydayimGenerat> i hired a dozen inbred hicks to mine for bitcoins in idaho, sadly they all died and we found no blocks
4826 2011-05-10 21:35:09 <gjs278> I use asians
4827 2011-05-10 21:35:14 <gjs278> they can do over 9000 mhash
4828 2011-05-10 21:35:30 gavinandresen has joined
4829 2011-05-10 21:35:51 <cosurgi> milihashes? wow.
4830 2011-05-10 21:36:08 <cosurgi> ;;bc,calc 0.009
4831 2011-05-10 21:36:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 0.009 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 2382252 years, 21 weeks, 2 days, 1 hour, 11 minutes, and 40 seconds
4832 2011-05-10 21:36:23 <ArtForzZz> that'd be hashes
4833 2011-05-10 21:36:33 <ArtForzZz> ;;bc,calc 0.000009
4834 2011-05-10 21:36:33 <gjs278> dude... gribble isn't figuring in the birthday asian paradox
4835 2011-05-10 21:36:34 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 0.000009 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 2382252408 years, 18 weeks, 3 days, 12 hours, 15 minutes, and 28 seconds
4836 2011-05-10 21:36:37 <cosurgi> oh, right.
4837 2011-05-10 21:36:56 <gjs278> it's much less than 2382252408 years
4838 2011-05-10 21:37:15 <sipa> let's say you use pooled mining
4839 2011-05-10 21:37:19 <gjs278> they have better luck during the year of the dragon
4840 2011-05-10 21:37:20 <cosurgi> nah, I can wait. no problem. give me some popcorn
4841 2011-05-10 21:37:24 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 0.000009 1
4842 2011-05-10 21:37:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 0.000009 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 15132 years, 26 weeks, 1 day, 7 hours, and 44 seconds
4843 2011-05-10 21:37:34 <sipa> 15 millenia per share!
4844 2011-05-10 21:37:42 <gjs278> in 15,000 years
4845 2011-05-10 21:37:48 <gjs278> do you know how much these things will be worth
4846 2011-05-10 21:38:02 <sipa> my guess: nothing
4847 2011-05-10 21:38:07 <gjs278> you can buy the entire economy with a single bitcoin
4848 2011-05-10 21:38:20 <gjs278> you can even buy every other bitcoin with a single bitcion
4849 2011-05-10 21:38:20 <cosurgi> in 15,000 years? Aliens will be coming from other galaxy just to buy 0.0000001 BTC !
4850 2011-05-10 21:38:35 <ArtForzZz> head asplode.
4851 2011-05-10 21:39:33 <jivvz> what do you guys think aliens will trade for bitcoins?
4852 2011-05-10 21:39:53 <ArtForzZz> alien alpaca socks
4853 2011-05-10 21:39:57 <sipa> brainzzz
4854 2011-05-10 21:39:58 <cosurgi> if you don't know what then it's either sex or money. since there's money already, then: sex.
4855 2011-05-10 21:41:57 <forrestv> anyone think they know what's wrong with http://im.forre.st/pb/18984223.txt ? (block hashing test)
4856 2011-05-10 21:42:21 ichumus has joined
4857 2011-05-10 21:42:31 Incitatus has joined
4858 2011-05-10 21:42:39 <ArtForzZz> your hash is backwards
4859 2011-05-10 21:42:58 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4860 2011-05-10 21:43:10 <ArtForzZz> same for prev_block
4861 2011-05-10 21:43:24 <forrestv> ah
4862 2011-05-10 21:44:59 <forrestv> cool, it works
4863 2011-05-10 21:45:26 <forrestv> the hash matches
4864 2011-05-10 21:45:28 <forrestv> every single bit
4865 2011-05-10 21:46:08 <cosurgi> luke-jr: hmm. in fact I can switch in 20minutes. I dodn't expect that I will stay up till midnight. But I did. (had to wake up at 6 today)
4866 2011-05-10 21:46:25 Kiba has joined
4867 2011-05-10 21:48:23 <luke-jr> lol
4868 2011-05-10 21:48:53 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4869 2011-05-10 21:49:42 <xelister> Radeon on my other box started randomly and spontaneously decrese fan speed to 40%. I think they are after me. Thanks ati.
4870 2011-05-10 21:49:45 <cosurgi> well, sometimes I have to wake up early :/
4871 2011-05-10 21:50:00 <cosurgi> your fan is dying.
4872 2011-05-10 21:50:06 Marcel has joined
4873 2011-05-10 21:50:08 <sipa> jgarzik: you have any idea about ToStringLog() ?
4874 2011-05-10 21:50:18 <xelister> cosurgi: knowing as it is ati, I would bet its another bug
4875 2011-05-10 21:50:28 <xelister> ArtForzZz: how do Ati fans die actually
4876 2011-05-10 21:51:21 <ArtForzZz> usually controller failure
4877 2011-05-10 21:51:38 <xelister> failure of what? and how it manifests?
4878 2011-05-10 21:51:42 <ArtForzZz> unless you have something like the early defective 5970 fans
4879 2011-05-10 21:52:42 <xelister> so...?
4880 2011-05-10 21:52:46 <ArtForzZz> fans are essentially 2-phase unipolar AC motors
4881 2011-05-10 21:52:53 <xelister> how will that manifest in both cases
4882 2011-05-10 21:53:01 <gjs278> my room is 85 degrees F
4883 2011-05-10 21:53:09 <ArtForzZz> so if one of the 4 outputs of the controller dies, it still more or less runs on 1.5 phases
4884 2011-05-10 21:53:10 <gjs278> the card at 100% fan speed is hitting 79C
4885 2011-05-10 21:53:10 <xelister> gjs278: use C, usafag ;)
4886 2011-05-10 21:53:19 <gjs278> translate it
4887 2011-05-10 21:53:21 <gjs278> for me
4888 2011-05-10 21:53:28 <xelister> use Celcious degresse
4889 2011-05-10 21:53:33 <xelister> like a man
4890 2011-05-10 21:53:34 <gjs278> 29C
4891 2011-05-10 21:53:37 <ArtForzZz> = a lot slower than normal, and sounding rough
4892 2011-05-10 21:53:45 <cosurgi> ;;calc 85 degrees F in C
4893 2011-05-10 21:53:46 <gribble> 85 degrees Fahrenheit = 29.4444444 degrees Celsius
4894 2011-05-10 21:53:47 <gjs278> celsuis doesnt have enough numbers and fuck decimals
4895 2011-05-10 21:53:54 Lachesis has joined
4896 2011-05-10 21:53:59 <gjs278> thats why all of my money is in yen
4897 2011-05-10 21:54:02 <Lachesis> is there a site to see unconfirmed transactions?
4898 2011-05-10 21:54:06 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
4899 2011-05-10 21:54:13 <ArtForzZz> if a 2nd output dies, it's usually game over once the fan stops
4900 2011-05-10 21:54:15 <cosurgi> ;;calc 1 USD in Yen
4901 2011-05-10 21:54:15 <gribble> 1 US dollar = 80.7800 Japanese yen
4902 2011-05-10 21:54:22 <xelister> ArtForzZz: hm. I have fan that at 40-50 is boing like wurrl-wurrl-wurrl-wurrl, slowly and quietly... say... dunno, like a wheel in a chariot I guess =)
4903 2011-05-10 21:54:23 <gjs278> see how exact I can be with yen
4904 2011-05-10 21:54:28 <cosurgi> ;;calc 1 BTC in USD
4905 2011-05-10 21:54:29 <gribble> ...
4906 2011-05-10 21:54:33 <xelister> ArtForzZz: is that bad? temperatures are the same as on other card with same fan%
4907 2011-05-10 21:54:47 <gjs278> ArtForzZz what temps did you hit at 35C ambient
4908 2011-05-10 21:54:48 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4909 2011-05-10 21:54:51 <ArtForzZz> xelister: thats just one of the noisy ati fans
4910 2011-05-10 21:55:23 <sipa> Lachesis: http://www.bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin
4911 2011-05-10 21:55:55 <Lachesis> tyty
4912 2011-05-10 21:56:32 <ArtForzZz> gjs278: 76-81°C core at 75% fan
4913 2011-05-10 21:56:45 <gjs278> ok
4914 2011-05-10 21:57:00 <ArtForzZz> xelister: it's just a somewhat "loose" bearing
4915 2011-05-10 21:57:09 <ArtForzZz> lots of papsts have the same issue
4916 2011-05-10 21:57:17 <gjs278> my room is basically 30C right now by the end of today
4917 2011-05-10 21:57:30 <gjs278> and the card will probably hit 81
4918 2011-05-10 21:57:53 <xelister> 81? I would hit it
4919 2011-05-10 21:57:58 <gjs278> your dick
4920 2011-05-10 21:58:01 <xelister> with an inverse tachyon beam
4921 2011-05-10 21:58:07 <gjs278> your dick would turn black
4922 2011-05-10 21:58:08 <ArtForzZz> they have ball bearings with some "play" so they don't get too tight when hot
4923 2011-05-10 21:58:25 <kakazza> ;;calc 1 european money in japanese money
4924 2011-05-10 21:58:25 <gribble> ...
4925 2011-05-10 21:58:27 <kakazza> :x
4926 2011-05-10 21:58:53 <ArtForzZz> problem with that, if the bearing is cold(ish), it has enough play that the rotor can start oscillating
4927 2011-05-10 21:58:58 <kakazza> ;;calc 1 EUR in japanese money
4928 2011-05-10 21:58:58 <gribble> 1 euro = 116.2830 Japanese yen
4929 2011-05-10 21:59:08 <gjs278> man even my cpu is getting raped due to ambient
4930 2011-05-10 21:59:11 <gjs278> it's at 40c right now idle
4931 2011-05-10 21:59:11 <ArtForzZz> lots of high-speed papst fans have the same problem
4932 2011-05-10 21:59:13 <kakazza> I knew it takes the "money" thing.
4933 2011-05-10 21:59:28 <ArtForzZz> well, not really a problem per se
4934 2011-05-10 21:59:34 <ArtForzZz> just sounds kidna annoying
4935 2011-05-10 21:59:51 <ArtForzZz> and long-term damages the bearing
4936 2011-05-10 22:00:18 <xelister> ArtForzZz: dont worry, its 60-75 C
4937 2011-05-10 22:00:36 <Lachesis> how many confirmations does mybitcoin.com take to show a txn?
4938 2011-05-10 22:01:01 <xelister> prices on mtgox are more crazy then my aunt. And she uses IE6.
4939 2011-05-10 22:01:23 <cosurgi> ;;calc earth population
4940 2011-05-10 22:01:25 <gribble> Population , World 6,775,235,700 - 2009 Source: World Bank, World Development Indicators Disclaimer www.google.com/publicdata
4941 2011-05-10 22:01:32 <xelister> 5.8
4942 2011-05-10 22:01:32 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
4943 2011-05-10 22:01:33 <xelister> 5.9
4944 2011-05-10 22:01:41 <cosurgi> ;;calc 21000000/6775235700
4945 2011-05-10 22:01:41 <gribble> 21Â 000Â 000 / 6Â 775Â 235Â 700 = 0.00309952316
4946 2011-05-10 22:01:43 <jgarzik> sipa: src/irc.cpp calls CAddress() with ntohs(), but others do not.
4947 2011-05-10 22:02:14 <cosurgi> each person will get 0.00309952316 BTC as their monthly salary :)
4948 2011-05-10 22:03:00 <xelister> ;;bc,mtgoxlast
4949 2011-05-10 22:03:01 <gribble> 5.9899
4950 2011-05-10 22:03:03 <gjs278> check this
4951 2011-05-10 22:03:07 <gjs278> yeah
4952 2011-05-10 22:03:08 <gjs278> 5.98
4953 2011-05-10 22:03:32 <cosurgi> maybe we should start doing bets when it will hit 10 USD ? :)
4954 2011-05-10 22:03:35 <sipa> jgarzik: yes, because irc has network-ordered ports encoded, and CAddress now takes a host-ordered port
4955 2011-05-10 22:03:39 <xelister> ;;bc,mtgoxlast
4956 2011-05-10 22:03:39 <gribble> 5.99
4957 2011-05-10 22:04:37 <xelister> ;;bc,mtgoxlast
4958 2011-05-10 22:04:38 <gribble> 5.99
4959 2011-05-10 22:04:41 <jgarzik> sipa: oh, ok. I was reading it backwards. ACK'd.
4960 2011-05-10 22:04:44 <xelister> commoooon buy @ 6
4961 2011-05-10 22:04:46 <gjs278> theres no way it will hit 6
4962 2011-05-10 22:04:51 <gjs278> don't be greedy
4963 2011-05-10 22:04:56 <gjs278> it wont happen
4964 2011-05-10 22:05:02 <gjs278> mtgox cant handle integers bigger than 5.99
4965 2011-05-10 22:05:03 <cosurgi> oh, 6 ? it will hit in minimum 10 hours.
4966 2011-05-10 22:05:04 <xelister> ;;bc,mtgoxlast
4967 2011-05-10 22:05:05 <luke-jr> gjs278: I bet you 30 BTC it will hit $6.
4968 2011-05-10 22:05:05 <gribble> 5.99
4969 2011-05-10 22:05:09 <lfm> start doing bets when it will hit 0.10
4970 2011-05-10 22:05:21 <gjs278> are we talking real bitcoins or tonal bitcoins
4971 2011-05-10 22:05:25 <xelister> ;;bc,mtgoxlast
4972 2011-05-10 22:05:25 <gribble> 5.9899
4973 2011-05-10 22:05:31 <luke-jr> gjs278: I said BTC, idiot.
4974 2011-05-10 22:05:35 wiktor_b has quit (Quit: leaving)
4975 2011-05-10 22:05:43 <jgarzik> and somebody bought @ 5.00 PPUSD, lucky them
4976 2011-05-10 22:05:52 <luke-jr> gjs278: do we have a bet?
4977 2011-05-10 22:05:54 <gjs278> no
4978 2011-05-10 22:05:58 <luke-jr> f u :p
4979 2011-05-10 22:06:01 <gjs278> it has no timeframe
4980 2011-05-10 22:06:06 <luke-jr> intentionally!
4981 2011-05-10 22:06:14 <jgarzik> IMO: we're in for a wild ride. 6 million bitcoins is really not very much, if bitcoin is remotely "interested" to an early critical mass of people.
4982 2011-05-10 22:06:32 <gjs278> I'm setting my mtgox sell at $50 a coin
4983 2011-05-10 22:06:35 <gjs278> be back in a few hours
4984 2011-05-10 22:06:43 <luke-jr> gjs278: how about 12 hours?
4985 2011-05-10 22:06:52 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
4986 2011-05-10 22:06:53 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.99,"low":3.8,"vol":51873,"buy":5.9105,"sell":5.9114,"last":5.9105}}
4987 2011-05-10 22:07:05 <gjs278> hmm
4988 2011-05-10 22:07:11 LA9KSA has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
4989 2011-05-10 22:07:16 <gjs278> I'd give it like 12 minutes
4990 2011-05-10 22:07:20 <gjs278> before its $6
4991 2011-05-10 22:07:21 <luke-jr> :/
4992 2011-05-10 22:08:23 <xelister> ;;bc,mtgoxlast
4993 2011-05-10 22:08:23 <gribble> 5.9499
4994 2011-05-10 22:09:00 <gjs278> mtgoxlast is the buy, I only care about sell
4995 2011-05-10 22:09:47 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
4996 2011-05-10 22:09:47 <Kiba> ;;bc,mtgoxlast
4997 2011-05-10 22:09:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 123173 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1818 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 12 hours, 15 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 210034.69085595
4998 2011-05-10 22:09:49 <gribble> 5.81
4999 2011-05-10 22:09:59 <JFK911> ew difficulty :(
5000 2011-05-10 22:10:03 <Kiba> this is fucking insanity
5001 2011-05-10 22:10:04 sethsethseth__ has joined
5002 2011-05-10 22:10:09 <gjs278> dude who cares about the difficulty
5003 2011-05-10 22:10:19 <gjs278> people are paying $5+ for these things
5004 2011-05-10 22:10:38 <Kiba> I heard the network expanded 54% in the last ten days
5005 2011-05-10 22:10:40 <Kiba> scary
5006 2011-05-10 22:10:41 sethsethseth_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5007 2011-05-10 22:10:41 bk128 has joined
5008 2011-05-10 22:11:44 <xelister> Kiba: wtf...
5009 2011-05-10 22:11:46 <xelister> ...........
5010 2011-05-10 22:12:52 <Kiba> anyway, it seems to me that we're on an exponentional advance
5011 2011-05-10 22:13:09 <lfm> kiba what evidence do you have for that?
5012 2011-05-10 22:13:38 <gjs278> the charts
5013 2011-05-10 22:13:44 <gjs278> turn them upsidedown
5014 2011-05-10 22:13:57 <eternal1> I heard the network expanded 54% in the last ten days. When skynet join the network. ;)
5015 2011-05-10 22:14:15 <gjs278> they added bitcoin miners to the latest update of skype
5016 2011-05-10 22:14:17 <gjs278> nobody noticed
5017 2011-05-10 22:14:30 <gjs278> thats how microsoft is paying off the 8 billion dollar buy
5018 2011-05-10 22:14:53 <lfm> that was an artifact of the new difficulty. its no where near that much
5019 2011-05-10 22:14:54 <kakazza> lfm http://bitcoin.sipa.be/
5020 2011-05-10 22:15:06 LA9KSA has joined
5021 2011-05-10 22:16:03 <cosurgi> luke-jr: ok, after midnight - I switched. but why I see more rejects than in tycho..?
5022 2011-05-10 22:16:47 Aahzmundus is now known as Aahzmundus|AFK
5023 2011-05-10 22:17:35 <cosurgi> will, anyway, time to sleep.
5024 2011-05-10 22:19:43 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
5025 2011-05-10 22:20:57 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
5026 2011-05-10 22:22:32 cat_ has joined
5027 2011-05-10 22:22:42 cat_ has quit (Client Quit)
5028 2011-05-10 22:23:22 gruez has joined
5029 2011-05-10 22:24:00 OVerLoRDI has joined
5030 2011-05-10 22:25:32 <OVerLoRDI> is there a way to change the directy that the bitcoin client stores the wallet and the block chain?
5031 2011-05-10 22:25:57 <OVerLoRDI> I'm trying to find a way to make a USB flash drive that contains my wallet, a working client, and block chain
5032 2011-05-10 22:26:36 dvide has quit ()
5033 2011-05-10 22:27:16 <sipa> OVerLoRDI: bitcoin -datadir=<path>
5034 2011-05-10 22:27:23 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
5035 2011-05-10 22:27:55 <OVerLoRDI> cool, so just a command line switch? that's is easy enough
5036 2011-05-10 22:27:57 <OVerLoRDI> thanks :)
5037 2011-05-10 22:31:09 <lfm> OVerLoRDI: -confifdir
5038 2011-05-10 22:31:17 <lfm> OVerLoRDI: -configdir
5039 2011-05-10 22:31:34 <lfm> sorry ya -datadir
5040 2011-05-10 22:32:06 <luke-jr> cosurgi: DeepBit is in Germany. Eligius is in Pennsylvania.
5041 2011-05-10 22:32:30 <OVerLoRDI> keep bitcoin production in the US! stop outsourcing our mining! use Eligius :P
5042 2011-05-10 22:32:55 <luke-jr> OVerLoRDI: except that cosurgi is in Poland.
5043 2011-05-10 22:33:26 <lfm> silly we need bitcoin production everywhere
5044 2011-05-10 22:33:48 <phantomcircuit> <lfm> SARCASM? WAT?
5045 2011-05-10 22:34:01 <lfm> what what?
5046 2011-05-10 22:34:05 <phantomcircuit> heh
5047 2011-05-10 22:35:39 Silverpike has joined
5048 2011-05-10 22:36:37 <xelister> keep bitcoin production outside of USA
5049 2011-05-10 22:36:37 <xelister> stop wars
5050 2011-05-10 22:36:53 _Silverpike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
5051 2011-05-10 22:37:55 <lfm> the new surge in bitcoin mining is cuz the us defence dept is turning its computers to bitcoin mining
5052 2011-05-10 22:38:30 <lfm> so bitcoin will help pay for the wars
5053 2011-05-10 22:44:02 <xelister> USA will invade DE to shutdown ArtForzZz's miner
5054 2011-05-10 22:44:21 <OVerLoRDI> ^^
5055 2011-05-10 22:44:22 <OVerLoRDI> truth
5056 2011-05-10 22:45:11 <lfm> itd only need one cruze missile to take out
5057 2011-05-10 22:46:58 <Kiba> I felt like we'
5058 2011-05-10 22:47:04 <Kiba> re in a hyperdeflationary state
5059 2011-05-10 22:48:36 kermit has joined
5060 2011-05-10 22:51:00 lumos has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
5061 2011-05-10 22:54:58 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
5062 2011-05-10 22:55:04 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
5063 2011-05-10 22:55:05 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.99,"low":3.8,"vol":53766,"buy":5.4,"sell":5.5093,"last":5.4}}
5064 2011-05-10 22:56:12 Teslah has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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5080 2011-05-10 23:13:25 pnicholson has joined
5081 2011-05-10 23:13:29 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
5082 2011-05-10 23:13:29 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.99,"low":3.8,"vol":54912,"buy":5.55,"sell":5.7999,"last":5.5501}}
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5095 2011-05-10 23:33:28 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
5096 2011-05-10 23:33:28 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":5.99,"low":3.8,"vol":55260,"buy":5.46,"sell":5.7577,"last":5.5}}
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5099 2011-05-10 23:44:55 <Ratt> Anyone have any idea why pushpoold won't save shares submitted information to the database?
5100 2011-05-10 23:45:22 <luke-jr> probably not configured to
5101 2011-05-10 23:45:30 <gdoteof_home> is there a list of nodes to set explicitly with bitcoind?
5102 2011-05-10 23:45:35 <gdoteof_home> or bitcoin i guess
5103 2011-05-10 23:45:42 <luke-jr> gdoteof_home: ?
5104 2011-05-10 23:45:44 <Ratt> luke-jr: What configuration would prevent that?
5105 2011-05-10 23:45:59 <luke-jr> Ratt: it's not on by default. read the example config
5106 2011-05-10 23:46:10 <gdoteof_home> luke-jr: sorry, you can explicitly set peers to look for when you start up right?
5107 2011-05-10 23:46:38 <Ratt> I've been looking over it, but I don't see anything about the DB, just about logging to files
5108 2011-05-10 23:47:50 <Ratt> Are you supposet ochange log.shares to something related to the db?
5109 2011-05-10 23:48:14 <luke-jr> gdoteof_home: yep, rtfc
5110 2011-05-10 23:48:34 <luke-jr> Ratt: maybe read the code too
5111 2011-05-10 23:48:48 <Ratt> It's not in the config, just as an fyi.
5112 2011-05-10 23:50:25 jsemar has joined
5113 2011-05-10 23:51:44 <jsemar> is anyone here?
5114 2011-05-10 23:51:48 <Ratt> Yes
5115 2011-05-10 23:52:54 <jsemar> If i had an ASIC design that generated a sha256 hash in about 66 clock cycles, at around 1GHz frequency, how do i calculate how many hashes a second it can do
5116 2011-05-10 23:54:14 <luke-jr> jsemar: 757 MH/s before overhead
5117 2011-05-10 23:54:36 <jsemar> so not that great
5118 2011-05-10 23:54:55 <luke-jr> depends on power consumption
5119 2011-05-10 23:55:00 <jsemar> (unless it costs less than 1,000 to produce)
5120 2011-05-10 23:56:06 <Ratt> luke-jr: According to the code, enabling sharelog=true in the cfg file should do it, but I tried that last night to no avail.