1 2011-05-15 00:01:52 legion050 has joined
   2 2011-05-15 00:02:49 <iera> but a ninja can sneak into your home and modify your disk while you are asleep
   3 2011-05-15 00:06:09 <gmaxwell> indeed, but said ninja can also install a hardware keylogger.
   4 2011-05-15 00:07:53 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
   5 2011-05-15 00:09:04 <kika> do you guys know some tool i can burn to a usb flash drive and boot it so that i can fix the mbr and wipe the whole hd ?
   6 2011-05-15 00:09:48 theorb has joined
   7 2011-05-15 00:09:54 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
   8 2011-05-15 00:09:59 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
   9 2011-05-15 00:11:04 <lfm> gmaxwell: dummy login would be handy for border gaurds too
  10 2011-05-15 00:11:16 <gmaxwell> Ninjas come in all forms.
  11 2011-05-15 00:11:26 alystair has joined
  12 2011-05-15 00:11:41 <manveru> kika: usually people either wipe the hd or fix the mbr... doesn't make much sense otherwise
  13 2011-05-15 00:11:55 <lfm> ya, fat slow ninjas at borders
  14 2011-05-15 00:11:59 <kika> manveru: i basically need to re-create the mbr, or empty it
  15 2011-05-15 00:12:14 <kika> manveru: it has some truecrypt thingy i need to take it off so i can install an operating system
  16 2011-05-15 00:12:28 <kika> manveru: i think it has the truecrypt bootloader of something
  17 2011-05-15 00:12:43 <gmaxwell> though the best thing to do with borders is image your system and send the image ahead of you, then wipe it to a virgin state as you get off the plane, saving any work you did on the plane on a SD card... if you want to be paranoid about data security.
  18 2011-05-15 00:12:48 <kika> manveru: i lost my truecrypt password so im looking to reinstall the os
  19 2011-05-15 00:13:04 <lfm> kika dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1
  20 2011-05-15 00:13:12 [Tycho] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  21 2011-05-15 00:13:14 <kika> lfm: my pc is not bootable
  22 2011-05-15 00:13:26 <lfm> kika boot cd?
  23 2011-05-15 00:13:28 <kika> lfm: ill need to run a linux usb bootable live cd?
  24 2011-05-15 00:13:44 <kika> lfm: that command will take too much time?
  25 2011-05-15 00:13:55 <lfm> kika boot linux cd then -> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1
  26 2011-05-15 00:14:08 <lfm> no time at all. just mbr
  27 2011-05-15 00:14:11 <kika> lfm: do you have some usb boottable linux i can download?
  28 2011-05-15 00:14:28 <manveru> kika: grml
  29 2011-05-15 00:14:31 <lfm> kika cds are easir if you can
  30 2011-05-15 00:15:21 <manveru> cds are easier?
  31 2011-05-15 00:15:32 <manveru> if he can boot from usb, that's easiest, no?
  32 2011-05-15 00:15:34 <lfm> to make bootable ya
  33 2011-05-15 00:15:38 <kika> i cant boot from cd
  34 2011-05-15 00:15:49 <lfm> oh, that sucks
  35 2011-05-15 00:16:06 <kika> trying to find a linux usb distro live bootable, any link ?
  36 2011-05-15 00:16:18 <manveru> kika: http://wiki.grml.org/doku.php?id=usb
  37 2011-05-15 00:16:29 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
  38 2011-05-15 00:16:46 <lfm> if you have a linux system running you can make usb bootables, problem with usb is they are all different sizes
  39 2011-05-15 00:17:02 <kika> manveru: im on windows
  40 2011-05-15 00:17:04 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  41 2011-05-15 00:17:16 <lfm> kika:  ok that sucks too
  42 2011-05-15 00:17:22 <manveru> kika: you can use rawwrite on windows, read the wiki
  43 2011-05-15 00:17:24 <kika> yes everything sucks
  44 2011-05-15 00:17:48 <manveru> just d/l the iso, rawwrite to usb, and boot
  45 2011-05-15 00:17:55 <kika> manveru: oks thxs ill go with rawwrite
  46 2011-05-15 00:18:00 <lfm> kika even most cd burning tools have iso burning option can make bootable cds
  47 2011-05-15 00:20:32 <kika> lfm: ok thxs
  48 2011-05-15 00:20:50 * lupine_85 starts writing a new bitcoin application, wonders if he'll stick with it
  49 2011-05-15 00:20:59 <kika> grml is 600MB isnt there any smaller distro?
  50 2011-05-15 00:21:11 <kika> ill download the small package 110MB
  51 2011-05-15 00:21:56 <manveru> there are smaller ones...
  52 2011-05-15 00:22:02 <lfm> kika smaller boot image means longer net install
  53 2011-05-15 00:22:25 <kika> lfm: net install? why i need net install?
  54 2011-05-15 00:22:27 <manveru> he doesn't want to install
  55 2011-05-15 00:22:40 <kika> i just wan to use dd to empty the mbr
  56 2011-05-15 00:22:48 <lfm> ok, never mind, good luck
  57 2011-05-15 00:22:50 <kika> so i can install an operating system
  58 2011-05-15 00:22:53 <kika> thxs
  59 2011-05-15 00:23:16 Silverpike has quit ()
  60 2011-05-15 00:23:29 <kika> manveru: and which one would the command to wipe off the whole hd from the linux live cd?
  61 2011-05-15 00:23:56 <lfm> can use same dd command just leave off count=1
  62 2011-05-15 00:24:04 <manveru> what lfm said
  63 2011-05-15 00:24:22 <manveru> http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ :D
  64 2011-05-15 00:24:58 <kika> lfm: it will take lots of time to wipe it off? i think it will still be recoverable, right? it doesnt shreds the data?
  65 2011-05-15 00:25:00 <lfm> (prolly is stollen pc we are helping guy make it usable)
  66 2011-05-15 00:25:15 <kika> lfm: nah its my pc
  67 2011-05-15 00:25:25 <lfm> data will not be recoverable
  68 2011-05-15 00:26:14 <kika> lfm: uhmm so its like shred?
  69 2011-05-15 00:26:20 <lfm> ya
  70 2011-05-15 00:26:40 <manveru> you'll just lose the partitioning table
  71 2011-05-15 00:26:42 <kika> lfm: uhmm but a low level disk recovery might be able to recover the files i think
  72 2011-05-15 00:26:50 <manveru> yeah
  73 2011-05-15 00:26:59 <kika> lfm: i dont think it be like shred
  74 2011-05-15 00:27:05 <lfm> disk encoding turns zeros into essentailly random data that is wrtten all over the disk.
  75 2011-05-15 00:27:24 <kika> lfm: yes but for it to be useful i have to do it many times
  76 2011-05-15 00:27:35 <jrmithdobbs> depends on the media
  77 2011-05-15 00:27:35 <kika> lfm: ah true
  78 2011-05-15 00:27:42 <jrmithdobbs> stop using magnetic media
  79 2011-05-15 00:27:42 <kika> if the disk is encrypted
  80 2011-05-15 00:27:43 <kika> thats true
  81 2011-05-15 00:27:43 <lfm> kika, beleive me, no one can recover data afetr that dd command without count=1
  82 2011-05-15 00:27:54 <kika> lfm: k
  83 2011-05-15 00:28:09 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: actually i read a pretty cool article not long back where they did
  84 2011-05-15 00:28:15 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: 4-5 years ago
  85 2011-05-15 00:28:28 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: but it was an academic special test case that made it easier, it definitely is not a trivial matter
  86 2011-05-15 00:28:41 <kika> lfm: you say because my hd is encrypted, but it woud not be encrypted they will be able to recover it
  87 2011-05-15 00:29:05 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: WHere? I read a cool artical where they wrote one set of zeros over a drive and "disk recovery" outfits wouldnt even try to recover any of it
  88 2011-05-15 00:29:20 <manveru> lfm: :)
  89 2011-05-15 00:29:30 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: let me see if i can find it, it *was* really cool, that's why i remember
  90 2011-05-15 00:29:31 <manveru> yeah, hardly worth the cost
  91 2011-05-15 00:29:38 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: but no, there are no commercial services that'll even try afaik
  92 2011-05-15 00:30:15 <lfm> note hard drives are different from solid state drives. it seems some solid state drives dont really write stuff
  93 2011-05-15 00:30:34 <jrmithdobbs> hell most of those data recovery places don't do much more than create an empty fat/ntfs table over the top and see if anything's recoverable that way
  94 2011-05-15 00:30:37 underscor has joined
  95 2011-05-15 00:30:42 <jrmithdobbs> and if it's not they tell you to fuck off
  96 2011-05-15 00:31:06 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: I thot they only looking in your trash bin folder
  97 2011-05-15 00:31:26 <jrmithdobbs> (worked at a place that did it for tapes for a while, when i started there i figured there'd be some really cool shit going on, was so disappointed when 99% of the "recovery" was dd off the media andtry and mangle fs tables into showing you data that was never damaged.)
  98 2011-05-15 00:31:36 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: some go a bit further
  99 2011-05-15 00:32:59 gruez has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 100 2011-05-15 00:34:50 DukeOfURL has joined
 101 2011-05-15 00:35:37 <lfm> so anyway multiple writes of random data might be usefull against NSA on a 360k floppy but much beyond that a single write of zeros is unrecoverable
 102 2011-05-15 00:36:52 <lfm> and solid state/flash drives tend to leave crap even when you've really wiped it
 103 2011-05-15 00:37:18 <kika> rawwrite doesnt detect the usb
 104 2011-05-15 00:37:19 <kika> weird
 105 2011-05-15 00:37:22 <kika> only the floppy
 106 2011-05-15 00:38:08 <kika> any alternative?
 107 2011-05-15 00:38:11 <kika> for windows
 108 2011-05-15 00:38:11 <lfm> ya old rawwrite was floppies only, not really sure where new usb rawwrite would be
 109 2011-05-15 00:38:22 <kika> i have new rawwrite
 110 2011-05-15 00:40:12 <manveru> hum
 111 2011-05-15 00:40:32 <kika> windows sucks
 112 2011-05-15 00:41:06 <kika> maybe i can use cygwin?
 113 2011-05-15 00:41:10 <kika> dd would work there?
 114 2011-05-15 00:41:14 <kika> to dd to the usb?
 115 2011-05-15 00:41:31 <lfm> weird you have usb boot but no cd boot. does machine have no cd drive? can you get a usb cd drive for it?
 116 2011-05-15 00:42:16 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: couldn't find the article
 117 2011-05-15 00:42:39 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: but i do remember that they were using much much much older platters, like pre-20G density
 118 2011-05-15 00:42:44 <jrmithdobbs> so you're absolutely right
 119 2011-05-15 00:43:03 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 120 2011-05-15 00:43:15 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: Ya, Id be surprized if they could do much more than floppies
 121 2011-05-15 00:47:35 <manveru> kika: sorry, no idea
 122 2011-05-15 00:47:48 <manveru> kika: you could try #grml
 123 2011-05-15 00:47:52 <kika> k
 124 2011-05-15 00:48:10 DebraBarone has joined
 125 2011-05-15 00:48:36 <lfm> kika: find a freind who has linux and can make a bootable usb for ya
 126 2011-05-15 00:48:47 <kika> lfm: np
 127 2011-05-15 00:49:03 dust1 has joined
 128 2011-05-15 00:49:20 <kika> im thinking to use clonezilla
 129 2011-05-15 00:49:24 <kika> to clone a linux system
 130 2011-05-15 00:49:28 <kika> to different pcs
 131 2011-05-15 00:49:32 <kika> with different hardware
 132 2011-05-15 00:49:41 <kika> any recommendation to make it detect the hardwarE?
 133 2011-05-15 00:50:32 <lfm> modern ubuntu (or I spoze other distros) do pretty good detecting hardware
 134 2011-05-15 00:51:00 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
 135 2011-05-15 00:51:54 <gmaxwell> kika: there is basically no hardware detection linux needs to do.
 136 2011-05-15 00:51:54 Incitatus has joined
 137 2011-05-15 00:52:05 <gmaxwell> the video cards is about it.
 138 2011-05-15 00:53:10 <jrmithdobbs> on modern hardware anyways
 139 2011-05-15 00:53:15 <kika> okay so ill just burn ubuntu
 140 2011-05-15 00:53:22 <kika> i just burned the grml iso on a cd
 141 2011-05-15 00:53:25 <kika> but for some reason
 142 2011-05-15 00:53:28 <kika> its not booting it
 143 2011-05-15 00:54:47 DebraBarone has quit (Quit: leaving)
 144 2011-05-15 00:57:20 <kika> manveru: i burned grml small iso to a cd but it doesnt boot, do you have idea why
 145 2011-05-15 00:57:32 DebraBarone has joined
 146 2011-05-15 00:58:13 <manveru> what are your boot priorities?
 147 2011-05-15 00:58:47 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 148 2011-05-15 00:59:09 lulzplzkthx has joined
 149 2011-05-15 01:01:32 <lfm> kika bios setting for boot order/prioritiy
 150 2011-05-15 01:01:45 <kika> lfm: i already did it
 151 2011-05-15 01:02:00 sacarlson has left ()
 152 2011-05-15 01:02:07 <kika> ill try again to burn using other software
 153 2011-05-15 01:02:15 <lfm> so cd before hd and it doesnt work? then cd is still not right
 154 2011-05-15 01:02:43 <lfm> burn as "iso" or "iso9660"
 155 2011-05-15 01:03:05 <kika> lfm: do you know which free burn soft for win i can use to do it
 156 2011-05-15 01:03:24 <kika> i used cdxpburner now ill try using infrarecorder
 157 2011-05-15 01:03:44 <lfm> most of em are just concerned with burning music cds which are totally different
 158 2011-05-15 01:05:05 quup has joined
 159 2011-05-15 01:05:30 <quup> what's the best python bitcoin wrapper? I find about 5 but don't really feel like trying all
 160 2011-05-15 01:05:55 <quup> all I need is json and ssl support and proper money unit handling (whatever that is concidered to be when the bitcoind returns float)
 161 2011-05-15 01:06:59 <kika> lfm: well it worked now when i used infrarecorder
 162 2011-05-15 01:07:06 <kika> i hate windows
 163 2011-05-15 01:07:19 <quup> and is there some recommended thing to read when implementing this stuff for production use? (would prefer not to get robbed :p)
 164 2011-05-15 01:08:08 <lfm> quup bitcoind returns char strings, not flotas
 165 2011-05-15 01:08:17 <lfm> quup bitcoind returns char strings, not floats
 166 2011-05-15 01:09:03 <quup> lfm: ok, know a good python wrapper?
 167 2011-05-15 01:09:24 <lfm> quup first ask me if I know any good python
 168 2011-05-15 01:11:08 <gdoteof_home> lfm do you  know any good python?
 169 2011-05-15 01:11:37 <lfm> not really. non id want to bring home to mom
 170 2011-05-15 01:12:01 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
 171 2011-05-15 01:14:26 <gdoteof_home> lfm me neither
 172 2011-05-15 01:16:04 purpleposeidon has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
 173 2011-05-15 01:18:37 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,gen 300000
 174 2011-05-15 01:18:39 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 1.91676164526 BTC per day and 0.0798650685525 BTC per hour.
 175 2011-05-15 01:18:51 purpleposeidon has joined
 176 2011-05-15 01:23:27 Moonies has joined
 177 2011-05-15 01:23:34 <Moonies> IT'S ABOUT TO CRASH
 178 2011-05-15 01:25:07 purpleposeidon has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 179 2011-05-15 01:26:57 <xelister> Moonies: jump the ship
 180 2011-05-15 01:27:42 <Moonies> I cannot jump
 181 2011-05-15 01:27:54 <Moonies> prolonged levitation has resulted in muscular atrophy
 182 2011-05-15 01:28:40 <xelister> put on the amulet of controlled flight
 183 2011-05-15 01:29:04 * Moonies considers
 184 2011-05-15 01:29:13 GermainAdrian has joined
 185 2011-05-15 01:32:14 <EPiSKiNG> what happens when the btc block splits to 25?
 186 2011-05-15 01:32:29 <EPiSKiNG> does this mean that there are then 42 million BTC total?
 187 2011-05-15 01:33:17 <xelister> EPiSKiNG: huh?   just htere will be less reward for mining
 188 2011-05-15 01:34:53 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
 189 2011-05-15 01:34:55 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stat
 190 2011-05-15 01:34:56 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124011 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 980 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 21 hours, 52 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 218887.75247312
 191 2011-05-15 01:34:57 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
 192 2011-05-15 01:35:00 <xelister> hehe usafags -> http://www.gocomics.com/toomuchcoffeeman
 193 2011-05-15 01:35:16 <xelister> next diff estinate.... 218 k ................ FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
 194 2011-05-15 01:36:09 Yurock has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 195 2011-05-15 01:38:12 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 196 2011-05-15 01:38:55 GermainAdrian has left ()
 197 2011-05-15 01:39:48 io_error has joined
 198 2011-05-15 01:39:49 io_error has quit (Changing host)
 199 2011-05-15 01:39:49 io_error has joined
 200 2011-05-15 01:41:25 marlowe has joined
 201 2011-05-15 01:42:06 Yurock has joined
 202 2011-05-15 01:47:13 ryah has quit (Quit: ryah)
 203 2011-05-15 01:48:19 AAA_awright has joined
 204 2011-05-15 01:50:39 Jefff has joined
 205 2011-05-15 01:51:33 dishwara has joined
 206 2011-05-15 01:58:11 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 207 2011-05-15 02:02:32 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 208 2011-05-15 02:06:22 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 209 2011-05-15 02:08:34 vorlov has joined
 210 2011-05-15 02:08:38 ryah has joined
 211 2011-05-15 02:08:43 vorlov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 212 2011-05-15 02:08:54 vorlov has joined
 213 2011-05-15 02:09:01 <vorlov> ;;bc,mtgox
 214 2011-05-15 02:09:01 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.9,"low":5.83,"vol":56363,"buy":6.53,"sell":6.9897,"last":6.538}}
 215 2011-05-15 02:12:24 Moonies has joined
 216 2011-05-15 02:17:01 dishwara has quit (Quit: Buy my shares DISHWARA @ glbse.com)
 217 2011-05-15 02:28:20 tabsa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 218 2011-05-15 02:28:23 dvide_ has quit ()
 219 2011-05-15 02:31:10 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
 220 2011-05-15 02:37:18 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 221 2011-05-15 02:38:48 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 222 2011-05-15 02:40:33 sec^nd has joined
 223 2011-05-15 02:40:45 <sec^nd> whoever runs bitcoin faucet :)
 224 2011-05-15 02:40:47 <sec^nd> SoBfeWyLf@gmail.com 67.248.114.198  d8f72f29939dcdca727ed02f01234fd0235e8cf8e864f818239c1c53d9fc2b53
 225 2011-05-15 02:40:51 <sec^nd> looks suspicious
 226 2011-05-15 02:41:08 sethsethseth__ has joined
 227 2011-05-15 02:41:09 sethsethseth__ is now known as sethsethseth
 228 2011-05-15 02:43:06 sethsethseth__ has joined
 229 2011-05-15 02:44:17 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 230 2011-05-15 02:45:30 LanceRushing has joined
 231 2011-05-15 02:45:50 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 232 2011-05-15 02:49:23 subpar has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 233 2011-05-15 02:51:27 metonymous has joined
 234 2011-05-15 02:56:25 BlueMattBot has joined
 235 2011-05-15 02:57:58 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 236 2011-05-15 03:00:12 <citiz3n> isn't it gavin that runs the faucet?
 237 2011-05-15 03:00:32 Yurock has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 238 2011-05-15 03:01:50 BlueMatt has joined
 239 2011-05-15 03:02:10 Yurock has joined
 240 2011-05-15 03:03:38 BERRI has quit (Excess Flood)
 241 2011-05-15 03:04:04 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
 242 2011-05-15 03:04:19 subpar has joined
 243 2011-05-15 03:06:41 <luke-jr> sec^nd: you look more suspicious :P
 244 2011-05-15 03:06:55 BERRI has joined
 245 2011-05-15 03:07:03 Big_Brother has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 246 2011-05-15 03:07:05 dissipate has joined
 247 2011-05-15 03:12:26 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 248 2011-05-15 03:13:56 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 249 2011-05-15 03:16:48 Netsniper has joined
 250 2011-05-15 03:18:13 metonymous has quit (Quit: metonymous)
 251 2011-05-15 03:18:45 EPiSKiNG has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 252 2011-05-15 03:20:43 <dinox> how many Hash needed for one share?
 253 2011-05-15 03:21:20 <gmaxwell> One share of what?
 254 2011-05-15 03:21:27 <gmaxwell> The shares on a pool?
 255 2011-05-15 03:21:38 <dinox> gmaxwell: Yeap
 256 2011-05-15 03:22:14 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 257 2011-05-15 03:22:17 LanceRushing has quit (Quit: LanceRushing)
 258 2011-05-15 03:22:20 <dinox> ;;calc,gen 1 1
 259 2011-05-15 03:22:20 <gribble> Error: "calc,gen" is not a valid command.
 260 2011-05-15 03:22:20 <gmaxwell> something like 4295032833 on average.
 261 2011-05-15 03:22:48 <gmaxwell> ;;bc,gen 1 1
 262 2011-05-15 03:22:48 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
 263 2011-05-15 03:22:53 <gmaxwell> ;;bc,gend 1 1
 264 2011-05-15 03:22:53 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 1.00582838058 BTC per day and 0.0419095158577 BTC per hour.
 265 2011-05-15 03:23:59 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 266 2011-05-15 03:24:01 <dinox> ;;calc,calcd 1 1
 267 2011-05-15 03:24:01 <gribble> Error: "calc,calcd" is not a valid command.
 268 2011-05-15 03:24:04 <dinox> ;;calc,calcd1 1
 269 2011-05-15 03:24:04 <gribble> Error: "calc,calcd1" is not a valid command.
 270 2011-05-15 03:24:07 <dinox> ;;calc,calc 1 1
 271 2011-05-15 03:24:08 <gribble> Error: "calc,calc" is not a valid command.
 272 2011-05-15 03:24:11 <dinox> ;;calc,calc 1
 273 2011-05-15 03:24:11 <gribble> Error: "calc,calc" is not a valid command.
 274 2011-05-15 03:24:18 <dinox> ;;bc,calcd 1
 275 2011-05-15 03:24:19 <gribble> (bc,calcd <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of $2, is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
 276 2011-05-15 03:24:21 <dinox> ;;bc,calcd 1 1
 277 2011-05-15 03:24:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 7 weeks, 0 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes, and 47 seconds
 278 2011-05-15 03:25:11 <gmaxwell> dinox: in any case, I gave you a number above.
 279 2011-05-15 03:25:24 <gmaxwell> (dunno if you missed it)
 280 2011-05-15 03:25:34 <dinox> gmaxwell: Ok, just checking :)
 281 2011-05-15 03:27:01 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
 282 2011-05-15 03:27:02 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.81,"low":5.83,"vol":50976,"buy":6.539,"sell":6.66,"last":6.539}}
 283 2011-05-15 03:27:06 <JFK911> nice low
 284 2011-05-15 03:27:44 charliesheen has joined
 285 2011-05-15 03:28:25 <charliesheen> how much would someone pay for a silkroad account?
 286 2011-05-15 03:28:53 charliesheen has quit (Client Quit)
 287 2011-05-15 03:30:40 ryah has quit (Quit: ryah)
 288 2011-05-15 03:30:58 <dinox> ;;bc,gen 340000
 289 2011-05-15 03:31:01 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 340000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 2.17232986463 BTC per day and 0.0905137443595 BTC per hour.
 290 2011-05-15 03:33:32 _ape has joined
 291 2011-05-15 03:35:08 vorlov has joined
 292 2011-05-15 03:36:45 <phantomcircuit> trying to build the latest git results in a bunch of wx related errors converting from wxString to char* and vice versa
 293 2011-05-15 03:37:01 <_ape> does anyone else get ~75% cpu use with sdk 2.1 and the latest diablominer?
 294 2011-05-15 03:37:01 vorlov has quit (Client Quit)
 295 2011-05-15 03:37:08 <_ape> catalyst 10.11
 296 2011-05-15 03:38:18 ryah has joined
 297 2011-05-15 03:38:34 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 298 2011-05-15 03:40:00 RichardG has joined
 299 2011-05-15 03:40:56 EPiSKiNG has joined
 300 2011-05-15 03:45:23 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 301 2011-05-15 03:52:16 RenaKunisaki has joined
 302 2011-05-15 03:55:57 pigeons has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 303 2011-05-15 03:56:56 amiller has joined
 304 2011-05-15 03:57:43 skeledrew has joined
 305 2011-05-15 03:59:00 vorlov has joined
 306 2011-05-15 03:59:04 noagendamarket has joined
 307 2011-05-15 04:04:35 <sethsethseth__> quick someone tell me the current block count
 308 2011-05-15 04:04:35 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 309 2011-05-15 04:04:47 da2ce7 has joined
 310 2011-05-15 04:04:47 da2ce7 has quit (Changing host)
 311 2011-05-15 04:04:47 da2ce7 has joined
 312 2011-05-15 04:06:19 ForceDestroyer has joined
 313 2011-05-15 04:07:34 <xelister> hey ForceDestroyer
 314 2011-05-15 04:07:55 <xelister> ForceDestroyer: aren't you by any chance that guy that thinks that usa GOV is good and actually anti-censor?
 315 2011-05-15 04:08:08 sacarlson has joined
 316 2011-05-15 04:09:04 <phantomcircuit> sethsethseth__, ;;bc,stat
 317 2011-05-15 04:09:06 <phantomcircuit> sethsethseth__, ;;bc,stats
 318 2011-05-15 04:09:48 Vandroiy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 319 2011-05-15 04:10:57 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 320 2011-05-15 04:12:03 hatmaker has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 321 2011-05-15 04:14:22 hatmaker has joined
 322 2011-05-15 04:15:02 kika has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 323 2011-05-15 04:15:17 skeledrew has joined
 324 2011-05-15 04:19:44 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 325 2011-05-15 04:22:36 ryah has quit (Quit: ryah)
 326 2011-05-15 04:23:27 ryah has joined
 327 2011-05-15 04:24:52 fahadsadah has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
 328 2011-05-15 04:28:24 jargon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 329 2011-05-15 04:28:29 DavidSJ has joined
 330 2011-05-15 04:30:21 fahadsadah has joined
 331 2011-05-15 04:39:14 Silverpike has joined
 332 2011-05-15 04:43:01 mtrlt has joined
 333 2011-05-15 04:44:30 phantomcircuit_ has joined
 334 2011-05-15 04:45:05 phantomcircuit_ has quit (Client Quit)
 335 2011-05-15 04:50:43 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 336 2011-05-15 05:01:54 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 337 2011-05-15 05:04:47 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 338 2011-05-15 05:04:54 Diablo-D3 has joined
 339 2011-05-15 05:06:29 DavidSJ has quit (Quit: DavidSJ)
 340 2011-05-15 05:11:44 <midnightmagic> i feel..  as though I am somehow.. becoming more like Diablo-D3..
 341 2011-05-15 05:12:47 <Diablo-D3> oh?
 342 2011-05-15 05:13:17 <_ape> Diablo-D3 is there any way to make your miner show stale shares? I'm using it with btcmine and they dont report them either :x
 343 2011-05-15 05:13:34 <Diablo-D3> _ape: my miner only reports what the other side reports
 344 2011-05-15 05:13:34 <_ape> and right now my score is lower than somebody who has lower hashrate so i know i must be getting some
 345 2011-05-15 05:13:39 <_ape> damn
 346 2011-05-15 05:13:58 <Diablo-D3> if the share is stale, a pool is supposed to return "false" (same as if real bitcoin rejected the block)
 347 2011-05-15 05:14:29 <_ape> yeah apparently btcmine doesnt because the operator doesnt want to waste the cpu
 348 2011-05-15 05:15:06 <Diablo-D3> ...
 349 2011-05-15 05:20:43 <_ape> idk if thats true or not, maybe he just wants people to think they arent getting any stales lol
 350 2011-05-15 05:21:47 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 351 2011-05-15 05:23:03 <_ape> maybe its some other overhead dropping my reward lower
 352 2011-05-15 05:23:04 <_ape> dunno
 353 2011-05-15 05:23:05 <dinox> do I need to start bitcoind with -generate for solo mining or is that only for cpu-mining?
 354 2011-05-15 05:23:33 vorlov has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 355 2011-05-15 05:23:47 <lfm> dinox -generate true is cpu mining
 356 2011-05-15 05:24:37 <_ape> oh also Diablo-D3 i'm getting 82% cpu use with my 5970 and your latest miner
 357 2011-05-15 05:24:44 <_ape> with catalyst 10.11 and sdk 2.1
 358 2011-05-15 05:24:46 <_ape> is that normal?
 359 2011-05-15 05:24:53 <_ape> i was only getting like 30% cpu use with poclbm
 360 2011-05-15 05:24:56 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: I am growing scornful and cynical at all the greedy douchebags invading the #bitcoin* channels.
 361 2011-05-15 05:25:05 vorlov has joined
 362 2011-05-15 05:25:12 <dinox> lfm: ok, so start bitcoind without -gen flag and then just connect phoenix to it?
 363 2011-05-15 05:25:32 <lfm> dinox: solo mining with external mining program use -gen=0
 364 2011-05-15 05:25:33 Stellar has joined
 365 2011-05-15 05:25:37 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, ?
 366 2011-05-15 05:25:46 <dinox> lfm: thanks
 367 2011-05-15 05:25:59 <midnightmagic> dinox: you can verify afterwards by checking CPU usage for bitcoind, and also that bitcoind getinfo reports:     "generate" : false,
 368 2011-05-15 05:26:25 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: hah
 369 2011-05-15 05:26:39 <Diablo-D3> _ape: its not normal. are you sure you're usind sdk 2.1?
 370 2011-05-15 05:26:46 <Diablo-D3> _ape: either that, or you have one hell of a slow cpu
 371 2011-05-15 05:26:46 <_ape> let me check gpucapsviewer
 372 2011-05-15 05:26:46 <_ape> sec
 373 2011-05-15 05:26:52 <_ape> im on a core i7 so i doubt it
 374 2011-05-15 05:26:55 <Diablo-D3> _ape: or your -f is very low
 375 2011-05-15 05:27:00 <_ape> its on -f 60
 376 2011-05-15 05:27:20 <Diablo-D3> when did you measure the cpu use?
 377 2011-05-15 05:27:22 <_ape> i think that when i switched my 5870 for 5970 and reinstalled the display driver maybe it overwrote my opencl sdk
 378 2011-05-15 05:27:23 <_ape> lets see
 379 2011-05-15 05:27:49 <_ape> nope it says stream-v2.1
 380 2011-05-15 05:27:57 <_ape> i was just looking in task manager
 381 2011-05-15 05:27:59 <_ape> perf tab
 382 2011-05-15 05:28:07 <_ape> java.exe 75% cpu use atm
 383 2011-05-15 05:28:22 <Diablo-D3> it'll use a lot of cpu the first like 30 seconds
 384 2011-05-15 05:28:27 thedrs has joined
 385 2011-05-15 05:28:30 <_ape> well its been running a few hours
 386 2011-05-15 05:28:32 <_ape> with constant cpu
 387 2011-05-15 05:28:35 <_ape> maybe its my java version?
 388 2011-05-15 05:28:36 <Diablo-D3> hrm weird, shouldnt do that.
 389 2011-05-15 05:28:49 <Diablo-D3> I doubt its the java version, although you're welcome to make sure you have the newest version
 390 2011-05-15 05:29:01 <_ape> lets see
 391 2011-05-15 05:29:39 <_ape> java version "1.6.0_21"
 392 2011-05-15 05:29:39 <_ape> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_21-b07)
 393 2011-05-15 05:29:39 <_ape> Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 17.0-b17, mixed mode)
 394 2011-05-15 05:29:44 <_ape> probably ancient
 395 2011-05-15 05:30:02 <Diablo-D3> not too far behind
 396 2011-05-15 05:30:06 <Diablo-D3> Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_25-b06)
 397 2011-05-15 05:30:06 <Diablo-D3> Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 20.0-b11, mixed mode)
 398 2011-05-15 05:30:25 <_ape> hmmm
 399 2011-05-15 05:30:25 <_ape> aha
 400 2011-05-15 05:30:32 <_ape> caps viewer says its using catalyst 11.2
 401 2011-05-15 05:30:35 <_ape> not the 10.11 driver
 402 2011-05-15 05:30:48 <_ape> i think what happened was when i rebooted with the 5970, windows loaded the display driver before my catalyst install finished
 403 2011-05-15 05:30:50 <Diablo-D3> 11.x is kinda iffy until you hit 11.4
 404 2011-05-15 05:30:55 <_ape> yeah
 405 2011-05-15 05:31:00 <_ape> going to reinstall 10.11
 406 2011-05-15 05:31:04 <_ape> and see if it fixes it
 407 2011-05-15 05:31:08 <Diablo-D3> well
 408 2011-05-15 05:31:13 <Diablo-D3> try uninstalling catalyst and the sdk first
 409 2011-05-15 05:31:16 <_ape> yeah
 410 2011-05-15 05:31:17 <_ape> will do
 411 2011-05-15 05:33:30 RazielZ has joined
 412 2011-05-15 05:36:05 sethsethseth__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 413 2011-05-15 05:37:47 sethsethseth__ has joined
 414 2011-05-15 05:37:53 sethsethseth__ is now known as sethsethseth
 415 2011-05-15 05:40:11 <Diablo-D3> I just realized something
 416 2011-05-15 05:40:21 <Diablo-D3> mining is the only thing in the world where you want your fps to go down, not up
 417 2011-05-15 05:41:33 <retinal> Diablo-D3: what about v-sync?
 418 2011-05-15 05:41:46 <Diablo-D3> what about it?
 419 2011-05-15 05:42:00 <retinal> similar thing? capping your fps?
 420 2011-05-15 05:42:07 <Diablo-D3> well, thats what we're doing
 421 2011-05-15 05:42:11 <Diablo-D3> -f 1 "caps" it a t1
 422 2011-05-15 05:42:23 <retinal> hah, makes sense
 423 2011-05-15 05:42:27 <retinal> I acutally use -f0
 424 2011-05-15 05:42:31 <Diablo-D3> its just that it "caps" it by making the kernel run size huge
 425 2011-05-15 05:42:32 <retinal> *actually
 426 2011-05-15 05:42:35 <Diablo-D3> retinal: not on mine you dont
 427 2011-05-15 05:42:57 <Diablo-D3> that would be divide by zero in a few places
 428 2011-05-15 05:43:08 <retinal> that would explain a few things, hehe
 429 2011-05-15 05:43:22 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 430 2011-05-15 05:43:50 <Nesetalis> so has anyone poked at bringing forth the cryptographic communication scheme through bitcoin or namecoin or something?
 431 2011-05-15 05:44:08 <Diablo-D3> Nesetalis: it could happen
 432 2011-05-15 05:44:22 <Diablo-D3> its really no different than the bitdns/coinname/whatever it is shit
 433 2011-05-15 05:44:28 <Nesetalis> aye
 434 2011-05-15 05:45:10 <Nesetalis> i'm just stuck on the idea of anonymous mail with a cost attached to it.
 435 2011-05-15 05:45:21 <Diablo-D3> it'd be expensive
 436 2011-05-15 05:45:24 <Nesetalis> yes
 437 2011-05-15 05:45:54 <Nesetalis> the expense could go to the recipient though
 438 2011-05-15 05:46:01 <Diablo-D3> nope.
 439 2011-05-15 05:46:02 <_ape> oh wouldnt that be great
 440 2011-05-15 05:46:05 <Diablo-D3> also, that'd be insane
 441 2011-05-15 05:46:07 <_ape> "you've received a spam message. $5"
 442 2011-05-15 05:46:08 amiller has joined
 443 2011-05-15 05:46:09 <Nesetalis> insane? :p
 444 2011-05-15 05:46:09 <Diablo-D3> I could just flood everyone with email
 445 2011-05-15 05:46:10 <_ape> FFFFF
 446 2011-05-15 05:46:16 <Nesetalis> er
 447 2011-05-15 05:46:18 <Nesetalis> you misunderstand
 448 2011-05-15 05:46:25 <Nesetalis> or
 449 2011-05-15 05:46:28 <Nesetalis> i spoke badly :P
 450 2011-05-15 05:46:33 <_ape> that would be as bad as receiving stupid txt messages that cost 10 cents
 451 2011-05-15 05:46:35 <Nesetalis> i meant the money spent would be recieved by the recipient
 452 2011-05-15 05:46:42 <_ape> oh :P
 453 2011-05-15 05:46:43 <Diablo-D3> Nesetalis: nope
 454 2011-05-15 05:46:44 <Diablo-D3> its a fee
 455 2011-05-15 05:46:52 <_ape> who is going to transmit it for free then in that case
 456 2011-05-15 05:46:54 <Diablo-D3> its recieved by te block owner
 457 2011-05-15 05:46:56 <_ape> what is the incentive
 458 2011-05-15 05:47:58 <Nesetalis> -chuckles- i'm just figuring, recieve spam, yay 0.02BTC... throw away spam :p
 459 2011-05-15 05:48:29 <Diablo-D3> naw, thats why you mine
 460 2011-05-15 05:48:34 <Diablo-D3> then we ALL recieve spam profits
 461 2011-05-15 05:49:03 <Nesetalis> if you can aford the big rig... i can output 34Mhash/s with both GPU and CPU running :\
 462 2011-05-15 05:49:28 _ape has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 463 2011-05-15 05:50:41 <CIA-103> bitcoin: BitMark * r2dcdac67c77b supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/GPG/helperscripts/bitcoin-otc-gpgauth-colloquy.applescript: handle recent changes to challenge string which get HTMLified by colloquy http://tinyurl.com/69rnff7
 464 2011-05-15 05:50:42 <CIA-103> bitcoin: nanotube * rd879712147cd supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/GPG/helperscripts/bitcoin-otc-gpgauth-colloquy.applescript: Merge pull request #13 from BitMark/patch-1 http://tinyurl.com/6je88d2
 465 2011-05-15 05:51:41 lfm has quit (Quit: later)
 466 2011-05-15 05:51:55 <Nesetalis> either way, its something id like to see running eventually
 467 2011-05-15 05:53:27 jeremydei has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 468 2011-05-15 05:55:49 lfm has joined
 469 2011-05-15 05:55:56 hatmaker has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 470 2011-05-15 05:56:22 caedes has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 471 2011-05-15 05:56:22 kakazza has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 472 2011-05-15 05:56:39 sshirokov has quit (Quit: ZRC hit the fan!)
 473 2011-05-15 05:56:49 caedes has joined
 474 2011-05-15 05:57:05 sshirokov has joined
 475 2011-05-15 05:57:08 _W_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 476 2011-05-15 05:57:42 hatmaker has joined
 477 2011-05-15 05:58:24 <thedrs> ;;bc,mtgox
 478 2011-05-15 05:58:24 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.81,"low":5.83,"vol":52054,"buy":6.62,"sell":6.7899,"last":6.6112}}
 479 2011-05-15 05:59:14 thedrs has quit ()
 480 2011-05-15 06:02:29 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 481 2011-05-15 06:03:18 kakazza has joined
 482 2011-05-15 06:03:18 kakazza has quit (Changing host)
 483 2011-05-15 06:03:18 kakazza has joined
 484 2011-05-15 06:04:55 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * ra2ee228 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java :
 485 2011-05-15 06:04:55 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Add FPS meter in debug mode, kernel work size now increases much faster
 486 2011-05-15 06:04:55 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: on fast cards and low -f values - http://bit.ly/mITYJT
 487 2011-05-15 06:06:11 <sacarlson> Nesetalis: I can see sending mesages with a transaction I just can't see how it get's charged on the other end?
 488 2011-05-15 06:06:48 <Nesetalis> distribution of wealth,reward for being bothered :p
 489 2011-05-15 06:07:23 <sacarlson> Nesetalis: I have plans of adding messages to some of my new chains
 490 2011-05-15 06:07:53 <sacarlson> Nesetalis: but the charge goes to the sender
 491 2011-05-15 06:08:05 <Diablo-D3> are te forums down?
 492 2011-05-15 06:08:05 <Nesetalis> er
 493 2011-05-15 06:08:28 <sacarlson> Nesetalis: oh and a bit to the minners
 494 2011-05-15 06:08:49 <Nesetalis> sacarlson as i said earlier, i misstyped, i meant to say the money would go /to/ the recipient, not that the recipient would pay for it
 495 2011-05-15 06:09:12 <Nesetalis> and yes, to the miners as well.
 496 2011-05-15 06:09:13 <sacarlson> Nesetalis: oh sorry I missed that ya that can be done and will
 497 2011-05-15 06:09:36 <Nesetalis> i figure, if you are going to send some one a message.. if its important enough.. pay the block, and pay the recipient..
 498 2011-05-15 06:09:50 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
 499 2011-05-15 06:09:51 <Nesetalis> but i dont know enough about how transactions propogate to really discuss this... its a bit of a blackbox to me how it all fits together.
 500 2011-05-15 06:10:45 _W_ has joined
 501 2011-05-15 06:11:47 <sacarlson> Nesetalis: I'm not sure it will ever be added to the bitcoin chain or if it would ever be needed but it will be tested in some of my chains and if people like it it will propogate
 502 2011-05-15 06:12:07 <Nesetalis> your chains? what ones are they?
 503 2011-05-15 06:12:37 <sacarlson> Nesetalis: I work on the development of new chains like #weeds
 504 2011-05-15 06:13:49 <sacarlson> Nesetalis: at this time they are just experimental
 505 2011-05-15 06:13:52 <Nesetalis> Diablo-D3, bitcoin.org forum seems to be fine for me.
 506 2011-05-15 06:14:34 <Diablo-D3> wierd, not for me
 507 2011-05-15 06:15:24 <Nesetalis> -eyes projects- bitcoin has been a fun distraction... but i should probably actually do some coding.
 508 2011-05-15 06:15:46 <Diablo-D3> heh
 509 2011-05-15 06:16:27 <sacarlson> Nesetalis: this exchange http://exchange.surething.biz/  is the experimental weeds exchange
 510 2011-05-15 06:16:39 fimp has joined
 511 2011-05-15 06:16:57 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
 512 2011-05-15 06:16:58 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.81,"low":5.83,"vol":52088,"buy":6.615,"sell":6.7899,"last":6.615}}
 513 2011-05-15 06:17:07 <Diablo-D3> we're back to sanity
 514 2011-05-15 06:17:19 <Nesetalis> -laughs-
 515 2011-05-15 06:17:28 <Nesetalis> very curious sacarlson-
 516 2011-05-15 06:17:42 <sacarlson> Diablo-D3: looks totaly unstable from 8.8 to 5.8  wow big diff
 517 2011-05-15 06:17:56 <Nesetalis> I blame forbes
 518 2011-05-15 06:18:31 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r034a654 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Fixed debug display - http://bit.ly/lP8Fqt
 519 2011-05-15 06:19:24 kseistrup has joined
 520 2011-05-15 06:20:52 brunner has joined
 521 2011-05-15 06:20:55 _ape has joined
 522 2011-05-15 06:21:09 <_ape> Diablo-D3: ok i'm definitely on 10.11 / 2.1 now and its still using 75% cpu
 523 2011-05-15 06:21:26 <Diablo-D3> weird.
 524 2011-05-15 06:21:34 <_ape> yeah
 525 2011-05-15 06:21:39 <_ape> want me to try updating java?
 526 2011-05-15 06:21:48 <_ape> or should i try 11.4
 527 2011-05-15 06:21:51 <Diablo-D3> try that and also make sure you're using the absolute newest version of my miner
 528 2011-05-15 06:21:58 <_ape> i downloaded it this morning
 529 2011-05-15 06:22:09 <Diablo-D3> btw, with 11.4/5/etc
 530 2011-05-15 06:22:15 <Diablo-D3> tell it to NOT install the opencl runtime
 531 2011-05-15 06:22:16 <_ape> k
 532 2011-05-15 06:22:20 <Diablo-D3> its in the custom config thing
 533 2011-05-15 06:22:20 <_ape> keep 2.1?
 534 2011-05-15 06:22:24 <_ape> yeah ive seen it
 535 2011-05-15 06:22:26 <Diablo-D3> and yeah keep 2.1
 536 2011-05-15 06:22:28 <_ape> alright
 537 2011-05-15 06:22:29 <Diablo-D3> and hope it works
 538 2011-05-15 06:22:30 <_ape> ill give it a shot
 539 2011-05-15 06:22:37 <Diablo-D3> a lot of users cant get 2.1 to work with 11.x on windows
 540 2011-05-15 06:24:20 <_ape> downloading java 6u25 first to see if it has any effect
 541 2011-05-15 06:25:42 <_ape> yeah no change
 542 2011-05-15 06:30:57 <Diablo-D3> btw, 11.5 IS out
 543 2011-05-15 06:31:02 <Diablo-D3> it seems to fix stuff for some users
 544 2011-05-15 06:32:18 <_ape> yeah
 545 2011-05-15 06:32:20 <_ape> 11.5a is out too
 546 2011-05-15 06:32:22 <_ape> hotfix
 547 2011-05-15 06:32:22 <_ape> :P
 548 2011-05-15 06:32:25 <_ape> thats what im installing atm
 549 2011-05-15 06:32:28 <_ape> sans app sdk
 550 2011-05-15 06:33:30 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
 551 2011-05-15 06:33:31 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.81,"low":5.83,"vol":52112,"buy":6.611,"sell":6.7899,"last":6.6112}}
 552 2011-05-15 06:33:38 LanceRushing has joined
 553 2011-05-15 06:33:43 <gjs278> come back to $8 coins and I swear I will sell you this time
 554 2011-05-15 06:33:49 <gjs278> I promise
 555 2011-05-15 06:33:51 <gjs278> just take me back
 556 2011-05-15 06:33:53 <_ape> i sold at 8.5 yesterday haha
 557 2011-05-15 06:33:55 <Diablo-D3> lol
 558 2011-05-15 06:33:58 <_ape> dont worry it will be back up monday
 559 2011-05-15 06:34:06 <_ape> there is always a rush :X
 560 2011-05-15 06:34:07 <gjs278> I saw 8.10 today and decided to wait a bit
 561 2011-05-15 06:34:11 <_ape> d'oh
 562 2011-05-15 06:34:45 <lfm> itll hit $10
 563 2011-05-15 06:34:48 <_ape> yeah
 564 2011-05-15 06:34:51 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 565 2011-05-15 06:34:58 <_ape> i bet as soon as the next difficulty hits its going to shoot up $2 at least
 566 2011-05-15 06:36:29 <_ape> man catalyst installer is glacially slow
 567 2011-05-15 06:37:54 <_ape> i wonder if these game publishers theyre advertising for paid them to make it go slow as shit
 568 2011-05-15 06:39:31 <lfm> _ape: ya, its faster on linux i think, no adds
 569 2011-05-15 06:40:12 <_ape> ive never used the linux one
 570 2011-05-15 06:40:18 <_ape> i did it all from cmd line last time
 571 2011-05-15 06:40:39 <lfm> ya command line installer
 572 2011-05-15 06:41:15 <_ape> there, it finally moved
 573 2011-05-15 06:41:16 <_ape> jeez
 574 2011-05-15 06:42:05 <xelister> _ape: Ati can be spontanuesly slow as shit
 575 2011-05-15 06:42:12 <_ape> its done this like the last 3 times i ran it
 576 2011-05-15 06:42:14 <_ape> so dunno
 577 2011-05-15 06:42:20 <_ape> i do need to reinstall windows but its a pain
 578 2011-05-15 06:42:32 Lido_bitcoin has joined
 579 2011-05-15 06:42:38 <xelister> hehe
 580 2011-05-15 06:42:39 ryah has quit (Quit: ryah)
 581 2011-05-15 06:42:42 <xelister> windows users u so silly
 582 2011-05-15 06:42:53 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r8b17ae3 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Unload compiler to save on memory usage - http://bit.ly/k2Gx0W
 583 2011-05-15 06:43:19 <Lido_bitcoin> hiiiiii
 584 2011-05-15 06:43:27 <_ape> same cpu use
 585 2011-05-15 06:43:31 <_ape> :(
 586 2011-05-15 06:43:34 <Lido_bitcoin> anyone have tried compiling spemilo on ubuntu naughty ?
 587 2011-05-15 06:43:47 <_ape> lower hash rate too
 588 2011-05-15 06:44:14 <Lido_bitcoin> I am having one hell of a time using the main client on ubuntu
 589 2011-05-15 06:44:27 <Lido_bitcoin> (11 - natty nawral - Naughty)
 590 2011-05-15 06:45:15 <Lido_bitcoin> here is teh error message
 591 2011-05-15 06:45:16 <Lido_bitcoin> convert -background none icons/bitcoin32.xpm icons/bitcoin32.png make: convert: Command not found make: *** [icons/bitcoin32.png] Error 127
 592 2011-05-15 06:45:17 dissipate has joined
 593 2011-05-15 06:45:20 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
 594 2011-05-15 06:45:20 dissipate has joined
 595 2011-05-15 06:45:59 <sacarlson> Lido_bitcoin: I've only used spesmilo on ubuntu 10.04
 596 2011-05-15 06:46:10 <lfm> convert is an imagemagic command
 597 2011-05-15 06:46:27 <lfm> try install imagemagic
 598 2011-05-15 06:47:01 <Lido_bitcoin> I know it is my fault that i have upgraded .. it run with no GUI .. then after compiling with wxWidgets 2.9 it gives errors when you select other tabs (sent, recieved , sent/recieved)
 599 2011-05-15 06:47:17 <Lido_bitcoin> Maverick is the magical word
 600 2011-05-15 06:48:07 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
 601 2011-05-15 06:48:30 _ape has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 602 2011-05-15 06:48:30 <sacarlson> Lido_bitcoin: we should make a deb package for spesmilo  I think those guys in #freecoin are working on that
 603 2011-05-15 06:49:42 <Lido_bitcoin> I tried teh sudo apt-install for the dependancies but it says packages cant be found
 604 2011-05-15 06:50:25 <sacarlson> Lido_bitcoin: for spesmilo?
 605 2011-05-15 06:50:48 <Lido_bitcoin> it is really painful .. anyways , i guess someone s working on adding the bitcoin to ubuntu future distos.
 606 2011-05-15 06:50:50 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik getblockbycount * r9007e595667f bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Add 'getblockbycount' dumping RPC http://tinyurl.com/6h5ecwg
 607 2011-05-15 06:50:50 <Lido_bitcoin> yup
 608 2011-05-15 06:50:52 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik initblocks * r45d82880eba2 bitcoind-personal/src/ (init.cpp main.cpp main.h util.cpp util.h): add -initblocks=FILE, to import blocks from file in local filesystem http://tinyurl.com/5tt3hyz
 609 2011-05-15 06:50:52 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik dumpblock * r81e75a087840 bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Add 'getblockbycount' dumping RPC http://tinyurl.com/65fyhz8
 610 2011-05-15 06:50:52 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik pow-fail * r25f70f946c30 bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: Print out proof-of-work and target, if proof-of-work check fails. http://tinyurl.com/69kwapw
 611 2011-05-15 06:50:52 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik scratch-card * r77b8fc..bd9778 bitcoind-personal/src/ (rpc.cpp key.h bignum.h): (10 commits) http://tinyurl.com/6xhbomm
 612 2011-05-15 06:50:53 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik xlisttransactions * re9efc5b0ccba bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: xlisttransactions support http://tinyurl.com/5tbdvev
 613 2011-05-15 06:50:54 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik dumpblock * r5419048ab0ae bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: s/getblockbycount/dumpblock/ http://tinyurl.com/6cs2nbk
 614 2011-05-15 06:51:00 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik dumpblock * r856fae842fab bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: add "_fulldump"
 615 2011-05-15 06:51:03 <lfm> I expect thayr just making the icons with convert, they shouldnt really use it for that in install
 616 2011-05-15 06:51:07 ryah has joined
 617 2011-05-15 06:52:39 <Lido_bitcoin> Now anyone installing bitcoin or spesmilo on ubuntu naught should be searching online for the dependat packages .. compile them then compile the source ... that just do not sound right
 618 2011-05-15 06:53:34 RichardG has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 619 2011-05-15 06:53:49 <Lido_bitcoin> anyways,
 620 2011-05-15 06:53:52 <Lido_bitcoin> nice to meet ya guys
 621 2011-05-15 06:53:55 <Lido_bitcoin> see ya
 622 2011-05-15 06:54:20 <sacarlson> Lido_bitcoin: virturalbox older ubuntu and run it there
 623 2011-05-15 06:54:23 Lido_bitcoin has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 624 2011-05-15 06:54:31 RichardG has joined
 625 2011-05-15 06:57:34 gasteve has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 626 2011-05-15 06:57:56 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 627 2011-05-15 06:57:56 eternal1 has joined
 628 2011-05-15 06:57:58 p has joined
 629 2011-05-15 06:58:04 p is now known as Guest15308
 630 2011-05-15 06:58:29 Guest15308 is now known as Petr
 631 2011-05-15 06:58:59 Petr is now known as Guest98593
 632 2011-05-15 07:02:34 Stellar has joined
 633 2011-05-15 07:02:58 gasteve has joined
 634 2011-05-15 07:03:27 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
 635 2011-05-15 07:03:27 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.81,"low":5.83,"vol":52040,"buy":6.6111,"sell":6.7879,"last":6.6112}}
 636 2011-05-15 07:05:34 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 637 2011-05-15 07:06:55 gdoteof_home has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 638 2011-05-15 07:10:25 <Guest98593> Hi, I'm designing a P2P backup system and BitCoin looks as a very good mechanism for payments. One client would automatically pay by bitcoins to another for having its data backed up for some period of time. My question is: Such an arrangement would probably produce a lot of small transactions. Is it possible that it would cause any trouble to the BitCoin network? For example, could it make the block chain to grow too large?
 639 2011-05-15 07:10:48 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik getblockbycount * r073f18baf4bd bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Add getblockbyhash RPC
 640 2011-05-15 07:11:25 <jgarzik> _finally_ have getblockbyhash
 641 2011-05-15 07:14:11 <gjs278> Guest98593 dont worry about that
 642 2011-05-15 07:14:14 <io_error> Guest98593: You might end up paying a lot of transaction fees
 643 2011-05-15 07:14:17 <gjs278> make our blockchain gigantic
 644 2011-05-15 07:17:56 <io_error> Speaking of tx fees, it was reduced in a recent patch, right?
 645 2011-05-15 07:18:35 <gmaxwell> Guest98593: bitcoin isn't really a micropayment system. It's more micro than many other things, but it currently wouldn't be great for sending lots of tiny payments between people.
 646 2011-05-15 07:18:48 <Guest98593> io_error: You're right, I didn't consider that.
 647 2011-05-15 07:19:44 <gmaxwell> Guest98593: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7219.0  < perhaps use this to create a kind of side-car currency where bitcoin is the basis of value.
 648 2011-05-15 07:19:45 <io_error> Guest98593: Right now I think it may work better if you store all the BTC and then settle when people want to get paid, either manually or automatically (e.g. pay me when I accumulate 10 BTC)
 649 2011-05-15 07:20:20 <gmaxwell> e.g. you do one TX to transfer a bitcoin into a distributed backup-coin. And then do your microtransaction stuff seperately then settle the bitcoin.
 650 2011-05-15 07:21:11 <io_error> That's similar to how mining pools handle payments
 651 2011-05-15 07:21:36 <gmaxwell> io_error: witcoin does the internal transfer thing for doing micro-transactions.
 652 2011-05-15 07:22:14 <io_error> I'd be interested in renting out my hard drive space
 653 2011-05-15 07:23:03 <gmaxwell> The problem with what witcoin does is that it requires a trusted central authority to hold the coin and make the market. Works fine when there must be a central authority to run the webpage.
 654 2011-05-15 07:23:09 <gmaxwell> Might not work as nicely for backup software.
 655 2011-05-15 07:23:27 <Guest98593> I see. Honestly, part of my motivation of using bitcoin was that I wouldn't have to solve the micropayments. I hoped that clients would trade their space using bitcoin according to the actual supply and demand.
 656 2011-05-15 07:23:58 <Guest98593> I want the system to be completely decentralized, no central authority.
 657 2011-05-15 07:24:07 <io_error> You have a lot of code to write :)
 658 2011-05-15 07:24:13 <gmaxwell> Guest98593: e.g. in witcoin's case 1 witcoin = 1 bitcoin and you can fluidly take money in and out of the system at any time.
 659 2011-05-15 07:25:14 <Guest98593> io_error: That's sure :)
 660 2011-05-15 07:25:25 <Guest98593> And renting out hardrive space, that's just the idea.
 661 2011-05-15 07:25:52 <Guest98593> If I rent more space than I require from the network, I make coins. If I use more space than I offer, I must pay.
 662 2011-05-15 07:26:01 <gmaxwell> yea, it sounds like a grand one.
 663 2011-05-15 07:26:51 <Guest98593> It is much cheaper to store data on someone's free space on other side of the world than to pay for expensive backup solutions.
 664 2011-05-15 07:27:10 <gmaxwell> but also one that would create a ton of infinitesmal transactions that no one would really care about.
 665 2011-05-15 07:27:13 danbri has joined
 666 2011-05-15 07:27:48 <Guest98593> gmaxwell: Yes, that is the problem I was concerned about.
 667 2011-05-15 07:28:08 <Guest98593> Probably having a separate currency that could be bought/sold using bitcoins would be a better idea.
 668 2011-05-15 07:29:37 <sacarlson> in this mingw envirnment created with  Windows Build Archive  how do I do a make clean?
 669 2011-05-15 07:29:43 <gmaxwell> I linked to a forum post about how you can actually create secondary block-chain commodities tied to the bitcoin blockchain. The idea was for doing things like domain names, but I don't see way special microcurrencies couldn't be handled that way too... other than the fact that I don't know how to handle getting currency across the boundary. ;)
 670 2011-05-15 07:30:40 <Guest98593> gmaxwell: Thanks, I'm already studying it.
 671 2011-05-15 07:31:45 <sacarlson> Guest98593: as my experimental #weeds currency is being setup
 672 2011-05-15 07:32:23 <gmaxwell> I know how you could get BC into it.. You create some kind of escrow transaction. I just don't know how to get it out..
 673 2011-05-15 07:32:48 <Guest98593> At first, I thought that the client will get some kind of credit for backing up others' data. But I didn't know how to distributively maintain the credit, without any central authority. And BitCoin (or a similar currency) looks like a good solution.
 674 2011-05-15 07:32:59 <sacarlson> Guest98593: no I use an exchange http://exchange.surething.biz/
 675 2011-05-15 07:33:17 <sacarlson> Guest98593: but I'm working on p2p escrow also
 676 2011-05-15 07:34:01 <sacarlson> opp I guess that was for gmaxwell above
 677 2011-05-15 07:34:46 <sacarlson> so no one here uses mingw?
 678 2011-05-15 07:36:19 <io_error> I don't use Windows if I can possibly avoid it.
 679 2011-05-15 07:36:37 <sacarlson> io_error: nor I that's why I'm so ignorant
 680 2011-05-15 07:36:50 <sacarlson> >>>>linux dude<<<
 681 2011-05-15 07:37:02 <Diablo-D3> heh
 682 2011-05-15 07:37:21 <io_error> I've used cygwin before, but if I were going to really build a real windoze app, I'd just break out Visual Stupido
 683 2011-05-15 07:38:18 <sacarlson> io_error: this mingw package is created with all the dependancies needed I'm just missing one command to do a make clean to test a compile with it
 684 2011-05-15 07:38:58 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 685 2011-05-15 07:39:14 <sacarlson> maybe no such thing in mingw ?
 686 2011-05-15 07:39:14 <Guest98593> gmaxwell: If there were more currencies like bitcoin, like my "backupcoin", it might be interesting to have some kind of "coin exchange" mechanism for trading different kinds of coins based on their market value.
 687 2011-05-15 07:39:52 <sacarlson> Guest98593: my exchange can be setup to trade unlimited number of coins
 688 2011-05-15 07:40:34 <sacarlson> Guest98593: at present it only trades BTC, USD, THB (thai bhat), and WEEDS
 689 2011-05-15 07:41:48 <gmaxwell> Guest98593: there are different advantages/disadvantages to having the value of your currency float.
 690 2011-05-15 07:42:20 <gmaxwell> Guest98593: an advantage is that your currency could simply be units of diskspace, and then people could decide the market value at the currency boundary.
 691 2011-05-15 07:45:19 <sacarlson> gmaxwell: #weeds is based on the value of "One can of Leo Beer purchased at a 7-11 in Thailand"
 692 2011-05-15 07:45:27 <Guest98593> gmaxwell: So do you think that it is possible having a separate currency whose value is fixed to bitcoin?
 693 2011-05-15 07:46:29 <sacarlson> gmaxwell: so #weeds will always follow inflation at the rate of beer prices
 694 2011-05-15 07:46:55 <wumpus> haha, a currency based on the price of beer, I like it :p
 695 2011-05-15 07:52:10 <Guest98593> gmaxwell: Maybe I understand now: Having a fixed value would require that the amount of disk space that can be bought by 1 backupcoin varies. Having a floating value means that i could set 1 backupcoin = 1GB and let the market define the value of 1 backupcoin in bitcoins.
 696 2011-05-15 07:56:12 TheAncientGoat has joined
 697 2011-05-15 07:56:27 legion050 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 698 2011-05-15 07:56:53 <gmaxwell> Guest98593: right.
 699 2011-05-15 07:57:42 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 700 2011-05-15 07:58:23 <gmaxwell> problem is that most people don't want to be currency traders just to do backups. Sounds tricky to get started.
 701 2011-05-15 07:58:59 retinal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 702 2011-05-15 08:01:38 malnilion_ has joined
 703 2011-05-15 08:02:52 retinal has joined
 704 2011-05-15 08:04:01 malnilion has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 705 2011-05-15 08:04:48 ImpatientSpoon has joined
 706 2011-05-15 08:08:53 <Guest98593> gmaxwell: You're right, that's tricky. But I suppose this could work this way: The clients would (perhaps automatically) mine backupcoins. At the beginning, this would create enough backupcoins to trade, just like it is with bitcoins. And a newcommer would just offer his/her diskspace for a while and this way accumulate enouch backupcoin credit to start backing up own data.
 707 2011-05-15 08:10:30 <Guest98593> Perhaps the value of backupcoins would have to float with respect to the available disk space too. Naively, the total number of existing backupcoins would correspond to the total amount of disk space available at a given time.
 708 2011-05-15 08:11:24 <gmaxwell> Your project now exceedes my available processor cycles. ;) I wish you luck, and I hope to hear about it if you get anything figured out.
 709 2011-05-15 08:12:44 taco_the_paco has quit (Changing host)
 710 2011-05-15 08:12:44 taco_the_paco has joined
 711 2011-05-15 08:13:03 <Guest98593> gmaxwell: Thanks. As always, spare time is of concern, but I hope to manage to figure something out.
 712 2011-05-15 08:17:25 jeremydei has joined
 713 2011-05-15 08:20:28 <kreal-> with pushpool anyway to see when a block is found ?
 714 2011-05-15 08:23:11 Marcel has joined
 715 2011-05-15 08:24:38 <kreal-> just wondering
 716 2011-05-15 08:29:44 devon_hillard has joined
 717 2011-05-15 08:29:44 devon_hillard has quit (Changing host)
 718 2011-05-15 08:29:44 devon_hillard has joined
 719 2011-05-15 08:37:47 <comboy> why doesn't bitcoin linux client have these libpng libjpeg statically linked? I don't want to downgrade libpng on my system just for bitcoin and I'd like to use binary
 720 2011-05-15 08:39:19 <gmaxwell> comboy: statically liking those libraries is a security disaster. So some (many?) distros don't even ship the static versions of them. Thus doing a static build with them would be hard.
 721 2011-05-15 08:39:37 <gmaxwell> (I dunno if thats the actual rationale for the development team here, however)
 722 2011-05-15 08:39:46 <io_error> gawd, looking at their web page, it seems libpng has been one security disaster after another
 723 2011-05-15 08:40:02 <comboy> statically, security disaster? why?
 724 2011-05-15 08:40:11 <io_error> Because you can't update it
 725 2011-05-15 08:40:23 <gmaxwell> comboy: because someone finds a libpng exploit and then they exploit apps one by one.
 726 2011-05-15 08:40:31 <wumpus> bitcoin doesn't accept pngs and jpegs from the network, so it's hardly a security disaster
 727 2011-05-15 08:40:37 <gmaxwell> And if there are a hundred copies on the system.. ugh
 728 2011-05-15 08:40:48 ryah has quit (Quit: ryah)
 729 2011-05-15 08:40:49 <wumpus> it only usese the few image (icons and such) in the distrib itself
 730 2011-05-15 08:40:54 <gmaxwell> wumpus: I was giving a reason why the distros make it hard to statically link them.
 731 2011-05-15 08:40:59 Guest98593 has quit (Quit: leaving)
 732 2011-05-15 08:41:06 <wumpus> lol I already thought wtf
 733 2011-05-15 08:41:32 <wumpus> people are integrating the weirdest things into bitcoin, maybe someone did an image viewer :')
 734 2011-05-15 08:41:50 <comboy> lol
 735 2011-05-15 08:42:08 <Fnar> libjpeg was static in 0.3.20.2, my guess was it was just a compilation oversight
 736 2011-05-15 08:42:22 <gmaxwell> heh block steganography.
 737 2011-05-15 08:42:27 <wumpus> real-time viewing of images steganographically encoded into the block chain
 738 2011-05-15 08:42:29 <wumpus> indeed
 739 2011-05-15 08:43:05 <comboy> not sure I agree with this security enchancement by not linking statically, but anyway thanks for info
 740 2011-05-15 08:43:51 <gmaxwell> meh. I think I caused confusion. Sorry.
 741 2011-05-15 08:43:58 <io_error> comboy: What distribution do you have?!
 742 2011-05-15 08:44:25 <comboy> io_error: gentoo, and yes, I wanted to use a binary package :>
 743 2011-05-15 08:44:33 <io_error> comboy: ROFL
 744 2011-05-15 08:44:35 mesees has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 745 2011-05-15 08:44:36 <Fnar> The dynamic links are against old versions anyway, so it seems not to solve anything
 746 2011-05-15 08:44:57 <io_error> comboy: You signed up to compile everything, what's one more package?
 747 2011-05-15 08:45:02 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
 748 2011-05-15 08:45:14 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.81,"low":5.83,"vol":49033,"buy":6.6531,"sell":6.757,"last":6.7573}}
 749 2011-05-15 08:45:54 <comboy> io_error: it depends on some version of wxGTK that only cause pain to me
 750 2011-05-15 08:46:06 <io_error> comboy: Oh, and all the rest of us too
 751 2011-05-15 08:46:11 <gmaxwell> oh, I was expecting "but then I'd have to compile boost"
 752 2011-05-15 08:46:38 <wumpus> but heh you'd have a hard time finding a linux system that doesn't have libpng/libjpeg installed as dynamic library
 753 2011-05-15 08:46:39 <Fnar> I just held my nose and did emerge =media-libs/jpeg-6b-r9
 754 2011-05-15 08:46:41 <sacarlson> ok I'm almost there with the problem that the makfile.mingw clean errors due to there is no del command found  so these lines  with -del /Q obj\*  needs to be changed  or ?
 755 2011-05-15 08:48:24 <sacarlson> I really suck at windows
 756 2011-05-15 08:49:15 <io_error> Windows really sucks, so you're not doing anything wrong
 757 2011-05-15 08:49:29 galaxyAbstractor has joined
 758 2011-05-15 08:49:55 <sacarlson> io_error: well this my first and now I think my last windows attempt
 759 2011-05-15 08:50:31 <kreal-> can you somehow set memory speed of a 5870 in windows lock in and have it run in ubuntu?
 760 2011-05-15 08:50:45 <kreal-> because i simply cannot get amdoverdrivectrl to work.
 761 2011-05-15 08:53:24 Blitzboom has joined
 762 2011-05-15 08:56:24 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 763 2011-05-15 08:56:42 sethsethseth_ has joined
 764 2011-05-15 08:57:22 sethsethseth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 765 2011-05-15 08:57:43 <kreal-> guess not
 766 2011-05-15 08:58:01 sethsethseth__ has joined
 767 2011-05-15 08:58:04 sethsethseth__ is now known as sethsethseth
 768 2011-05-15 08:58:08 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
 769 2011-05-15 08:58:14 <gmaxwell> 01:44 < kreal-> because i simply cannot get amdoverdrivectrl to work.
 770 2011-05-15 08:58:16 <gmaxwell> why not?
 771 2011-05-15 08:58:17 Marcel has joined
 772 2011-05-15 08:58:56 <kreal-> seq fault
 773 2011-05-15 08:59:32 <gmaxwell> kreal-: do you have a display enviroment variable set? (e.g. are you running it under X?)
 774 2011-05-15 08:59:38 <kreal-> yes
 775 2011-05-15 08:59:44 <gmaxwell> Does it throw out any errors before it dies?
 776 2011-05-15 08:59:48 <kreal-> no
 777 2011-05-15 08:59:56 <kreal-> INF: Nr. of Performance Levels: 3
 778 2011-05-15 08:59:56 <kreal-> Segmentation fault
 779 2011-05-15 08:59:59 <gmaxwell> Have you tried building a new copy yourself?
 780 2011-05-15 09:00:01 <kreal-> last two lines
 781 2011-05-15 09:00:09 <kreal-> tryed building them all.
 782 2011-05-15 09:00:23 <kreal-> and trying all debs packages.
 783 2011-05-15 09:00:29 <gmaxwell> run it in gdb and get a backtrace?
 784 2011-05-15 09:00:40 <kreal-> sec
 785 2011-05-15 09:00:59 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 786 2011-05-15 09:01:07 <kreal-> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
 787 2011-05-15 09:01:09 <kreal-> 0x0000000000411937 in ?? ()
 788 2011-05-15 09:01:26 <kreal-> doesnt make sense to me.
 789 2011-05-15 09:01:29 <gmaxwell> Needs to be compiled with debugging symbols (-g) to get useful output.
 790 2011-05-15 09:01:41 AStove has joined
 791 2011-05-15 09:04:06 <gmaxwell> if you can build it okay you could use my hacked up copy that only sets the clocks and exits
 792 2011-05-15 09:04:12 <gmaxwell> (doesn't fire up the GUI)
 793 2011-05-15 09:04:22 <kreal-> trying with the debugging symbols now
 794 2011-05-15 09:04:30 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
 795 2011-05-15 09:04:30 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.81,"low":5.83,"vol":49000,"buy":6.653,"sell":6.757,"last":6.653}}
 796 2011-05-15 09:04:50 <kreal-> oh well
 797 2011-05-15 09:04:59 <kreal-> i would like to try your version.
 798 2011-05-15 09:05:40 <kreal-> have an .ovdr already to gol
 799 2011-05-15 09:07:00 <gmaxwell> oh you even have a config file? hmph. did you try just feeding it that on the commandline? if that dies too, then I doubt my hacked up copy will help you.
 800 2011-05-15 09:08:44 aschmitz has joined
 801 2011-05-15 09:08:51 DebraBarone has quit (Quit: leaving)
 802 2011-05-15 09:11:01 <sipa> how are you invoking it?
 803 2011-05-15 09:11:54 mologie has joined
 804 2011-05-15 09:13:29 altamic has joined
 805 2011-05-15 09:13:30 altamic has quit (Changing host)
 806 2011-05-15 09:13:30 altamic has joined
 807 2011-05-15 09:26:18 <sipa> BlueMatt: i'm wondering how many times we'll hear "oh damn, i forgot my password anyway, is there *really* no way to reset it :("
 808 2011-05-15 09:27:21 <gjs278> the secret backdoor
 809 2011-05-15 09:27:33 <gjs278> also the password is optional right
 810 2011-05-15 09:27:48 <gjs278> because I'm not using one
 811 2011-05-15 09:27:58 <gjs278> well not going to
 812 2011-05-15 09:38:09 TD has joined
 813 2011-05-15 09:40:45 phantomcircuit has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 814 2011-05-15 09:44:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh, Im sure it will happen all the time, but that doesnt mean we should weaken the crypto...
 815 2011-05-15 09:45:00 <BlueMatt> its clear on the dialog, "NO ONE CAN GET YOUR BITCOINS BACK"
 816 2011-05-15 09:45:42 fimp has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 817 2011-05-15 09:46:26 <sipa> yeah
 818 2011-05-15 09:51:48 * sipa starts hating bitcoin's excessive redefinition of things in several header files, to break circular dependencies
 819 2011-05-15 09:53:51 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
 820 2011-05-15 09:55:39 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
 821 2011-05-15 10:00:03 eao has joined
 822 2011-05-15 10:00:52 mosimo has joined
 823 2011-05-15 10:01:24 altamic has joined
 824 2011-05-15 10:01:37 <quup> how does the main client generally handle getting a bunch of parallel json-rpc requests?
 825 2011-05-15 10:07:57 <quup> anyone used this? https://github.com/toomanysecrets0/bitcoin-python any issues I should know about in that case?
 826 2011-05-15 10:18:33 nixoid has joined
 827 2011-05-15 10:19:23 rlifchitz has quit (Quit: "I never worry about action, but only about inaction" (W. Churchill))
 828 2011-05-15 10:19:35 basic_ed has joined
 829 2011-05-15 10:20:17 basic_ed has quit (Client Quit)
 830 2011-05-15 10:20:39 basic_ed has joined
 831 2011-05-15 10:22:56 Nesetalis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 832 2011-05-15 10:24:52 Nesetalis has joined
 833 2011-05-15 10:25:45 <sacarlson> bluematt: how do I setup your Windows Build Archive when I install it on drive d: instead of c: ?
 834 2011-05-15 10:25:58 <sipa> jgarzik: what do think about pull 225?
 835 2011-05-15 10:26:31 <sacarlson> BlueMatt I used this link to install but didn't have space on drive c: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4750.0
 836 2011-05-15 10:28:01 <sacarlson> BlueMatt I"m getting errors not finding the command g++ so I guess it needs some kind of path changes
 837 2011-05-15 10:29:28 DebraBarone has joined
 838 2011-05-15 10:29:41 <sacarlson> BlueMatt I edited the makefile.mingw  to change C: to D: but I guess the msys needs some fstab changes or something
 839 2011-05-15 10:33:16 tabsa has joined
 840 2011-05-15 10:37:46 DebraBarone has quit (Quit: leaving)
 841 2011-05-15 10:44:02 <quup> is there any python bitcoin json client that can handle ssl?
 842 2011-05-15 10:44:17 <sipa> a web browser? :p
 843 2011-05-15 10:44:22 <sipa> no, not really
 844 2011-05-15 10:49:07 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I seemed to have fixed my own problem with the mount command in msys  I had just mistyped a case so I'm back in biz  thanks for the post above
 845 2011-05-15 10:49:07 basic_ed has quit (Quit: basic_ed)
 846 2011-05-15 10:49:09 DebraBarone has joined
 847 2011-05-15 10:49:59 DebraBarone has quit (Client Quit)
 848 2011-05-15 10:54:20 Myckel has joined
 849 2011-05-15 10:54:20 Myckel has quit (Changing host)
 850 2011-05-15 10:54:20 Myckel has joined
 851 2011-05-15 11:06:24 da2ce7 has quit ()
 852 2011-05-15 11:13:52 <sipa> quup: spesmilo maybe?
 853 2011-05-15 11:13:58 LanceRushing has quit (Quit: LanceRushing)
 854 2011-05-15 11:18:09 <UukGoblin> my bitcoin 0.3.19 died:
 855 2011-05-15 11:18:09 <UukGoblin> EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
 856 2011-05-15 11:18:10 <UukGoblin> DbEnv::txn_checkpoint: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
 857 2011-05-15 11:18:12 phantomcircuit has joined
 858 2011-05-15 11:18:13 <UukGoblin> bitcoin in ThreadIRCSeed()
 859 2011-05-15 11:23:10 Landrae has joined
 860 2011-05-15 11:23:22 <Landrae> noob bit coin question
 861 2011-05-15 11:25:00 <quup> sipa: I want a library
 862 2011-05-15 11:25:54 <Landrae> noob bit coin question. I set up my batch file for mining and when i go to open it a window opens briefly then abrutly closes
 863 2011-05-15 11:25:58 <Landrae> any idea what im doing wrong
 864 2011-05-15 11:26:04 ryah has joined
 865 2011-05-15 11:26:16 ryah has quit (Client Quit)
 866 2011-05-15 11:27:14 <quup> anyone had similar ssl problems? http://pastebin.com/mbk8S3Jk
 867 2011-05-15 11:29:05 <quup> >.< turns out I had -rpcssl=1 and not -rpcssl=true
 868 2011-05-15 11:30:01 Landrae has quit ()
 869 2011-05-15 11:30:12 Landrae has joined
 870 2011-05-15 11:30:31 Landrae has quit (Client Quit)
 871 2011-05-15 11:30:42 jivvz has joined
 872 2011-05-15 11:35:10 dust1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 873 2011-05-15 11:35:58 lzsaver has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 874 2011-05-15 11:36:04 noagendamarket has joined
 875 2011-05-15 11:39:05 [DusT] has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 876 2011-05-15 11:45:29 <sacarlson> UukGoblin: might try delete (backup some place) all your files in ~.bitcoin but NOT the wallet.dat file and run again see what that does
 877 2011-05-15 11:45:54 <UukGoblin> restarting bitcoind seems to have helped
 878 2011-05-15 11:46:13 <sacarlson> UukGoblin: oh so it was a one time thing
 879 2011-05-15 11:46:23 <UukGoblin> it seems so
 880 2011-05-15 11:51:55 Nicksasa has joined
 881 2011-05-15 12:03:21 <quup> when I run bitcoin it often just stops responding to json requests
 882 2011-05-15 12:03:29 <quup> can I do something about that?
 883 2011-05-15 12:04:30 <quup> or should I just not use json and instead run bitcoind locally and just do popen each request I want?
 884 2011-05-15 12:05:37 <luke-jr> quup: or just use Spesmilo ;)
 885 2011-05-15 12:05:46 <quup> luke-jr: does it have json?
 886 2011-05-15 12:05:51 <quup> or some sort of remote operating
 887 2011-05-15 12:05:55 <luke-jr> it talks to bitcoind
 888 2011-05-15 12:06:26 <quup> well I don't want a gui, just something i can use as a bockend
 889 2011-05-15 12:06:27 <quup> *back
 890 2011-05-15 12:06:38 Clarence has joined
 891 2011-05-15 12:07:00 acfrazier has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 892 2011-05-15 12:07:32 <quup> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4904.0 that's just the bug I'm having
 893 2011-05-15 12:08:18 <Clarence> sacarlson: I get an error message trying to deposit bitcoins at your exchange
 894 2011-05-15 12:10:03 acfrazier has joined
 895 2011-05-15 12:22:35 Herodes has joined
 896 2011-05-15 12:27:39 <quup> if I build with: make -f makefile.unix will I get both bitcoin and bitcoind? (I want both)
 897 2011-05-15 12:27:54 sethsethseth__ has joined
 898 2011-05-15 12:27:55 <sipa> no
 899 2011-05-15 12:28:05 <sipa> you'll need make -f makefile.unix bitcoin bitcoind
 900 2011-05-15 12:28:17 <quup> ah, thanks!
 901 2011-05-15 12:29:16 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 902 2011-05-15 12:32:00 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: yea, there should also be a /etc/fstab somewhere in msys that you can use
 903 2011-05-15 12:32:21 * sipa didn't know windows had an /etc/fstab
 904 2011-05-15 12:32:42 <Strom> can I safely delete the debug.log file?
 905 2011-05-15 12:32:51 <Strom> it's taking 1GB of space
 906 2011-05-15 12:32:57 <Strom> seems kind of a waste to me
 907 2011-05-15 12:32:58 <sipa> yes
 908 2011-05-15 12:33:04 <Diablo-D3> Strom: go ahead
 909 2011-05-15 12:33:08 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 910 2011-05-15 12:33:17 <eps1> none of us will get upset if you do
 911 2011-05-15 12:33:35 <subpar> 1gb'
 912 2011-05-15 12:33:35 <Strom> eps1, well you probably won't get upset if I delete my wallet aswell
 913 2011-05-15 12:33:38 <subpar> wow
 914 2011-05-15 12:34:28 <BlueMatt> sipa: its a msys thing, not ms win
 915 2011-05-15 12:34:44 <sipa> i have to admit i have no idea what that is :)
 916 2011-05-15 12:34:46 <sipa> *googles*
 917 2011-05-15 12:34:56 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
 918 2011-05-15 12:34:56 <BlueMatt> mingw minimal system
 919 2011-05-15 12:35:06 <BlueMatt> bash and such
 920 2011-05-15 12:35:16 <sipa> isee
 921 2011-05-15 12:37:06 AStove has joined
 922 2011-05-15 12:43:00 maikmerten has joined
 923 2011-05-15 12:43:40 ImpatientSpoon has left ("Ex-Chat")
 924 2011-05-15 12:44:29 kseistrup has quit (Quit: BBL)
 925 2011-05-15 12:44:29 rli has joined
 926 2011-05-15 12:45:08 draag has joined
 927 2011-05-15 12:46:36 <BlueMatt> who was the one who was looking at pulling out of headers.h and into local headers?
 928 2011-05-15 12:46:45 <BlueMatt> is it laanwj?
 929 2011-05-15 12:47:20 draaglom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 930 2011-05-15 12:47:22 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
 931 2011-05-15 12:48:10 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 932 2011-05-15 12:48:22 AStove has joined
 933 2011-05-15 12:48:52 da2ce7 has joined
 934 2011-05-15 12:49:21 DukeOfURL has joined
 935 2011-05-15 12:49:49 Herodes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 936 2011-05-15 12:51:07 <sipa> someone mentioned it yesterday on IRC - can't remember who
 937 2011-05-15 12:51:22 <sipa> not sure if that's the same person as the laanwj on github
 938 2011-05-15 12:53:40 phuzion has joined
 939 2011-05-15 12:54:48 <phuzion> Say I wanted to develop some software that would automatically accept bitcoins and do certain things based on how much it has.  Is there any way to test this without actually using bitcoins?  I don't have much to spend right now, and would prefer to not lose anything to transaction fees.
 940 2011-05-15 12:55:20 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 941 2011-05-15 12:55:38 <sipa> there is a testnet
 942 2011-05-15 12:55:39 <BlueMatt> phuzion: testnet
 943 2011-05-15 12:56:04 <phuzion> awesome, thats what I figured.  thanks
 944 2011-05-15 12:59:32 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 945 2011-05-15 13:01:32 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 946 2011-05-15 13:01:48 AStove has joined
 947 2011-05-15 13:03:31 WakiMiko has joined
 948 2011-05-15 13:07:12 <quup> how can I prevent the bitcoind from locking? http://pastebin.com/TQX22BdS
 949 2011-05-15 13:07:25 kseistrup has joined
 950 2011-05-15 13:07:37 MartianW has joined
 951 2011-05-15 13:07:54 <sipa> which version?
 952 2011-05-15 13:08:00 <quup> just pulled git now
 953 2011-05-15 13:08:09 <quup> also tried wih 0.3.19
 954 2011-05-15 13:08:23 <sipa> 0.3.21 contains some deadlock fixes
 955 2011-05-15 13:08:50 MartianW has quit (Client Quit)
 956 2011-05-15 13:08:51 <BlueMatt> but those are in git
 957 2011-05-15 13:08:55 <sipa> indeed
 958 2011-05-15 13:08:59 dbitcoin has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 959 2011-05-15 13:09:45 jmorton has joined
 960 2011-05-15 13:11:07 sethsethseth__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 961 2011-05-15 13:11:23 kseistrup has quit (Client Quit)
 962 2011-05-15 13:11:34 sethsethseth has joined
 963 2011-05-15 13:11:44 <sacarlson> Clarence: I hope your depositing testnet coins not real btc,  it's in test mode only testnet funding will work
 964 2011-05-15 13:12:05 <quup> would you like some debug output? if so what should I do to get it?
 965 2011-05-15 13:12:32 <BlueMatt> quup: maybe look at the end of debug.log...but Ive never seen that in recent version...
 966 2011-05-15 13:12:39 <BlueMatt> is it a new wallet or an existing one?
 967 2011-05-15 13:12:47 <BlueMatt> ie is it the first run?
 968 2011-05-15 13:13:27 <quup> first run, i'll remove the testnet dir and try again
 969 2011-05-15 13:13:52 <BlueMatt> sipa: do you want access to my jenkins bitcoin builder to manually test stuff?
 970 2011-05-15 13:13:58 <da2ce7> question: do we implement the 'generic transport layer' into the official bitcoin or bitcoinj first?  Please put your comments to #BtcFn (the Bitcoin Freenet project)
 971 2011-05-15 13:14:04 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ^
 972 2011-05-15 13:14:22 DukeOfURL has joined
 973 2011-05-15 13:14:54 KBme is now known as behemoth
 974 2011-05-15 13:15:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: can it build mingw as well?
 975 2011-05-15 13:15:45 <sacarlson> BlueMatt thanks I figured that fstab thing or a work around but now I'm having problems with git in msys  with permision denied (public key) I havn't figured that out yet
 976 2011-05-15 13:15:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, it builds mingw+linux
 977 2011-05-15 13:16:03 <quup> BlueMatt: debug.log just says ThreadRPCServer method=getaccountaddress
 978 2011-05-15 13:16:08 <quup> when the event happens
 979 2011-05-15 13:16:14 <BlueMatt> quup: yea, thats what I was afraid of
 980 2011-05-15 13:16:32 <quup> any verbose flag i can put on that'd make a difference?
 981 2011-05-15 13:16:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: though viewing build output etc is public, I just wondered if you want to be able to trigger build and such yourself
 982 2011-05-15 13:17:54 <sipa> and what does it build?
 983 2011-05-15 13:17:59 <BlueMatt> bitcoin
 984 2011-05-15 13:18:26 <BlueMatt> Im gonna hopefully add some basic build sanity tests as well
 985 2011-05-15 13:18:34 <BlueMatt> http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/
 986 2011-05-15 13:18:36 <sipa> git master, or anything requested?
 987 2011-05-15 13:18:38 <quup> it still handles other stuff, it seems just rpc part is frozen
 988 2011-05-15 13:18:54 <BlueMatt> git master currently, but if you have access you could set it to build one of your repos
 989 2011-05-15 13:19:14 <BlueMatt> quup: no, the verbose flag really doesnt do much sadly
 990 2011-05-15 13:19:28 <sipa> quup: sounds like a deadlock...
 991 2011-05-15 13:19:49 <quup> BlueMatt: so I"m out of luck for now? or is there some workaroud I can use? was hoping to put this into production
 992 2011-05-15 13:20:09 <sipa> it's reproducible?
 993 2011-05-15 13:20:12 <quup> yes
 994 2011-05-15 13:20:13 <quup> every time
 995 2011-05-15 13:20:46 <BlueMatt> quup: hm, well mine doesnt appear to have that problem, but let me go check
 996 2011-05-15 13:22:29 <sipa> quup: does bitcoind jump to 100% cpu usage?
 997 2011-05-15 13:22:51 <quup> sipa: n,o <1%
 998 2011-05-15 13:22:55 <quup> *no
 999 2011-05-15 13:25:18 [Tycho] has joined
1000 2011-05-15 13:25:37 <BlueMatt> quup: hm, well i cant reproduce, got some more info on your environment?
1001 2011-05-15 13:25:39 [Tycho] has quit (Changing host)
1002 2011-05-15 13:25:39 [Tycho] has joined
1003 2011-05-15 13:26:37 <quup> BlueMatt: server is ubuntu 10.10, amd64, bitcoin just built from git pulled few hours ago, same problem with 0.3.19, trying on testnet
1004 2011-05-15 13:26:42 MG4727 has joined
1005 2011-05-15 13:26:51 <quup> I disabled upnp when building
1006 2011-05-15 13:27:08 <BlueMatt> my environment almost exactly
1007 2011-05-15 13:27:25 <quup> (0.3.19 I didn't build, was from a ppa)
1008 2011-05-15 13:28:07 <quup> BlueMatt: did you provide non-existant account?
1009 2011-05-15 13:28:13 <quup> as argument that is
1010 2011-05-15 13:28:15 <BlueMatt> yea
1011 2011-05-15 13:28:35 roconnor has joined
1012 2011-05-15 13:28:42 <BlueMatt> oh wait, no now Ive got it
1013 2011-05-15 13:28:55 <BlueMatt> alright lets take a look
1014 2011-05-15 13:30:56 skeledrew has joined
1015 2011-05-15 13:33:29 Fnar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1016 2011-05-15 13:33:31 skeledrew has quit (Client Quit)
1017 2011-05-15 13:34:04 unomi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1018 2011-05-15 13:34:22 Fnar has joined
1019 2011-05-15 13:36:02 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1020 2011-05-15 13:36:37 jmorton has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1021 2011-05-15 13:39:27 <da2ce7> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=8379.0
1022 2011-05-15 13:40:06 <da2ce7> ^ Bitcoin Transport Layer API discussion
1023 2011-05-15 13:47:25 unomi has joined
1024 2011-05-15 13:47:46 dbitcoin has joined
1025 2011-05-15 13:48:35 <BlueMatt> quup sipa: rpc.cpp getaccountaddress locks main+mapWallet, calls GetAccountAddres, calls GetKeyFromKeyPool calls ReserveKeyFromKeyPool tries to lock main, mapWallet, setKeyPool locking rpc process
1026 2011-05-15 13:49:20 Clark has left ()
1027 2011-05-15 13:49:24 <sipa> that doesn't make sense
1028 2011-05-15 13:49:35 <BlueMatt> how so?
1029 2011-05-15 13:49:36 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1030 2011-05-15 13:49:40 <sipa> if main and mapWallet are already locked, they won't be locked again
1031 2011-05-15 13:49:41 molecular has joined
1032 2011-05-15 13:49:46 <sipa> and it's all in the same process
1033 2011-05-15 13:50:01 <BlueMatt> well in any case it locks right there and dies
1034 2011-05-15 13:50:23 <sipa> which processes are you talking about?
1035 2011-05-15 13:50:28 <BlueMatt> rpc
1036 2011-05-15 13:50:31 <sipa> i'd think only the rpc process is involved here?
1037 2011-05-15 13:50:33 AStove has joined
1038 2011-05-15 13:50:56 <BlueMatt> Id think so too, but for some reason it dies, probably tries to call something in some db something or other, but thats not a process is it?
1039 2011-05-15 13:51:09 <sipa> you don't call a process, you fork one
1040 2011-05-15 13:51:17 <quup> BlueMatt: nice work! :D
1041 2011-05-15 13:51:23 <sipa> every function call you invoke just runs in the same process
1042 2011-05-15 13:51:35 <sipa> andd if the rpc process deadlocks while trying to take a lock on X, it means some other process already has a lock on it
1043 2011-05-15 13:51:36 <BlueMatt> yea, you know what I meant
1044 2011-05-15 13:52:02 DukeOfURL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1045 2011-05-15 13:52:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: the rpc process tries to get a lock on main + mapWallet twice is the problem
1046 2011-05-15 13:52:25 <sipa> no it's not
1047 2011-05-15 13:52:29 <BlueMatt> ?
1048 2011-05-15 13:52:40 <sipa> you're perfectly allowed to lock one cs more than once
1049 2011-05-15 13:52:47 <sipa> just not from within more than one process
1050 2011-05-15 13:52:56 <BlueMatt> yea thought so, but why does it die
1051 2011-05-15 13:53:08 <sipa> because some other process must have a lock on it already
1052 2011-05-15 13:53:52 <BlueMatt> who sits on a main + mapWallet all day, I dont see how it does
1053 2011-05-15 13:54:32 <sipa> is died in setKeyPool?
1054 2011-05-15 13:54:48 <BlueMatt> GetKeyFromKeyPool
1055 2011-05-15 13:57:15 euclid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1056 2011-05-15 13:57:22 dissipate has joined
1057 2011-05-15 13:57:22 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
1058 2011-05-15 13:57:22 dissipate has joined
1059 2011-05-15 13:57:45 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1060 2011-05-15 13:58:21 AStove has joined
1061 2011-05-15 14:01:02 kseistrup has joined
1062 2011-05-15 14:07:21 <BlueMatt> hm, odd its locking up in in pdb-> put db.h:105
1063 2011-05-15 14:07:49 <BlueMatt> some bdb lock?
1064 2011-05-15 14:07:52 <BlueMatt> sipa: ^
1065 2011-05-15 14:08:26 <forrestv> if a transaction has multiple inputs with the same scriptSig, are they combined to reduce space?
1066 2011-05-15 14:08:55 Nick_ has joined
1067 2011-05-15 14:08:56 <sipa> forrestv: no
1068 2011-05-15 14:09:27 Nick_ is now known as Nicksasa_
1069 2011-05-15 14:09:40 <forrestv> i see that the signature would be different between inputs ... but why couldn't/isn't the public key combined?
1070 2011-05-15 14:10:18 dvide has joined
1071 2011-05-15 14:11:20 <sipa> that's one of the design flaws of bitcoin imho - transactions should have some dedicated signature space (which is not hashed), and scripts should refer to positions within this signature space
1072 2011-05-15 14:11:48 <sipa> instead of being hacked together in the binary format, removing things from the resulting bytesting that cannot be known in advance
1073 2011-05-15 14:12:08 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1074 2011-05-15 14:12:13 Nicksasa_ is now known as Nicksasa
1075 2011-05-15 14:12:28 <sipa> then multiple scriptPubKeys could also reuse the same key
1076 2011-05-15 14:12:30 <sipa> and sig
1077 2011-05-15 14:17:07 <sipa> BlueMatt: about your comment on the -port patch, does that delay rule still exist?
1078 2011-05-15 14:17:41 <sipa> nvm
1079 2011-05-15 14:18:15 <roconnor> The input of a transaction can be the output of another transaction in the same block?
1080 2011-05-15 14:18:23 <ArtForz> yes
1081 2011-05-15 14:18:33 <roconnor> ugh
1082 2011-05-15 14:18:49 <jrmithdobbs> it's how luke-jr does his fun autopayout stuff
1083 2011-05-15 14:18:54 <jrmithdobbs> p cool
1084 2011-05-15 14:18:57 <roconnor> validating blocks is tricky
1085 2011-05-15 14:19:17 <jrmithdobbs> roconnor: so not only can it be, there are casses in the wild of it being done ;P
1086 2011-05-15 14:19:31 <roconnor> ya, I see it on the testnet
1087 2011-05-15 14:20:25 <roconnor> think I can make a block with a pair of transactions that each pass a bitcoin to each other?
1088 2011-05-15 14:20:43 <sipa> no
1089 2011-05-15 14:20:46 <sipa> they must be ordered
1090 2011-05-15 14:20:54 <roconnor> lame restriction
1091 2011-05-15 14:21:00 <sipa> definitely not
1092 2011-05-15 14:21:06 <roconnor> why not?
1093 2011-05-15 14:21:21 <roconnor> do the transactions have to be ordered in the order that they are listed?
1094 2011-05-15 14:21:32 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1095 2011-05-15 14:21:35 <sipa> the block chain is just a way of ordering transactions
1096 2011-05-15 14:21:43 <sipa> and the order is necessary to detect double spends
1097 2011-05-15 14:21:45 <jrmithdobbs> ordered by definition basically
1098 2011-05-15 14:21:56 AStove has joined
1099 2011-05-15 14:22:04 <roconnor> sipa: I mean, are the transactions ordered within a block?
1100 2011-05-15 14:22:11 <sipa> yes, of course
1101 2011-05-15 14:22:14 <roconnor> in the order that they are in the block?
1102 2011-05-15 14:22:16 <sipa> yes
1103 2011-05-15 14:22:18 <ArtForz> yea
1104 2011-05-15 14:22:26 <sipa> blocks are ordered pieces of transactions
1105 2011-05-15 14:22:41 <roconnor> so I can only spend a coin that occurs in a previous block or in the same block before this transaction?
1106 2011-05-15 14:22:42 <sipa> and the block chain forms the authorative order transactions are to be executed
1107 2011-05-15 14:22:47 <sipa> exactly
1108 2011-05-15 14:22:49 <ArtForz> yep
1109 2011-05-15 14:23:11 <roconnor> I can spend the coinbase I just minted in the same block I minted it?
1110 2011-05-15 14:23:15 <ArtForz> nope
1111 2011-05-15 14:23:16 <sipa> no
1112 2011-05-15 14:23:21 <sipa> it needs to be matured first
1113 2011-05-15 14:23:29 <ArtForz> coinbases need 100 block to mature before they can be spent
1114 2011-05-15 14:23:35 <sipa> which takes 100 blocks (though the client only lets you spend it after 120)
1115 2011-05-15 14:23:48 <roconnor> sometimes this feels like the most obtuse protocol ever.
1116 2011-05-15 14:23:58 <sipa> why?
1117 2011-05-15 14:24:11 <sipa> spending a just generated coin would be very very dangerous to the network
1118 2011-05-15 14:24:12 <ArtForz> it's the only way to prevent invalid normal tx on short chain splits
1119 2011-05-15 14:24:39 <roconnor> sipa: so I can only spend a coin that occurs in a previous block or in the same block before this transaction unless i'm spending a coinbase coin in which case that coinbase coin has to be 100 blocks back at least.
1120 2011-05-15 14:24:48 <sipa> exactly
1121 2011-05-15 14:24:49 <ArtForz> yep
1122 2011-05-15 14:24:50 <roconnor> sipa: obtuse enough for you ;)
1123 2011-05-15 14:24:58 <ArtForz> thats rather simple
1124 2011-05-15 14:25:05 <roconnor> who knows if I have all the conditions yet :D
1125 2011-05-15 14:25:20 <sipa> those are the only conditions i know of
1126 2011-05-15 14:25:24 tabsa has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
1127 2011-05-15 14:25:25 <sipa> the clients enforces a few others
1128 2011-05-15 14:25:30 <roconnor> ArtForz: everytime the word "unless" occurs in a specification it becomes more complex.
1129 2011-05-15 14:25:41 <sipa> yes, but it is most definitely necessary
1130 2011-05-15 14:25:54 <roconnor> why is the 100 coin rule necessary?
1131 2011-05-15 14:25:56 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit
1132 2011-05-15 14:25:57 <roconnor> er 100 block rule
1133 2011-05-15 14:25:59 <Diablo-D3> how do I use pheonix again
1134 2011-05-15 14:26:03 <sipa> if i could spend a coin i just minted
1135 2011-05-15 14:26:06 <sipa> and send it to you
1136 2011-05-15 14:26:11 <sipa> and you buy bread with it
1137 2011-05-15 14:26:14 <sipa> and ...
1138 2011-05-15 14:26:20 <sipa> and then a chain reorg happens
1139 2011-05-15 14:26:26 <sipa> the coin does not exist anymore
1140 2011-05-15 14:26:30 <roconnor> sipa: but minted coints are not special in this regard
1141 2011-05-15 14:26:35 <sipa> they are
1142 2011-05-15 14:26:35 <ArtForz> yes they are
1143 2011-05-15 14:26:38 justanotheruser has joined
1144 2011-05-15 14:26:46 <sipa> minted coins disappear in a reorg
1145 2011-05-15 14:26:51 <sipa> normal txouts don't
1146 2011-05-15 14:26:52 <roconnor> ah
1147 2011-05-15 14:27:01 <sipa> they are just moved to the other chain
1148 2011-05-15 14:27:04 <roconnor> fair observation
1149 2011-05-15 14:27:06 <roconnor> ok
1150 2011-05-15 14:27:38 <sipa> there are really few things satoshi didn't consider when designing the protocol
1151 2011-05-15 14:27:46 <sipa> ... the implementation is something else
1152 2011-05-15 14:27:51 <jrmithdobbs> heh
1153 2011-05-15 14:28:30 <jrmithdobbs> ya the only "flaws" revolve around pools being able to scam, but that's your run of the mill con game situation that uses bitcoin, not an issue with bitcoin
1154 2011-05-15 14:28:39 <jrmithdobbs> but "pools" weren't really considered during the design
1155 2011-05-15 14:28:42 <roconnor> sipa: what harm would come to having transactions unordered within a block?
1156 2011-05-15 14:29:04 <sipa> roconnor: ok, imagine two transactions that consume eachother
1157 2011-05-15 14:29:08 <sipa> does that make any sense?
1158 2011-05-15 14:29:12 <roconnor> yes
1159 2011-05-15 14:29:13 <sipa> would you allow it?
1160 2011-05-15 14:29:16 <roconnor> sure
1161 2011-05-15 14:29:22 <sipa> give me a use case
1162 2011-05-15 14:29:24 <roconnor> I kinda plan on it :D
1163 2011-05-15 14:29:30 <roconnor> there is no use case
1164 2011-05-15 14:29:33 <ArtForz> ohh, coin 69
1165 2011-05-15 14:29:37 <roconnor> is just simplified the code
1166 2011-05-15 14:29:42 <roconnor> *simplfies
1167 2011-05-15 14:29:46 <roconnor> one less thing to check
1168 2011-05-15 14:29:59 <sipa> i don't see the problem
1169 2011-05-15 14:30:01 <ArtForz> huh?
1170 2011-05-15 14:30:19 <sipa> just pass over all tx's, and one by one check whether they are valid, and then mark the coins they used spent
1171 2011-05-15 14:30:24 <ArtForz> so instead of being able to simply check tx in-order, you now have to build a depndency tree, yeah, totally makes things easier
1172 2011-05-15 14:30:42 <roconnor> sipa: I can't check the validity of the coinbase without checking the other transactions first.
1173 2011-05-15 14:30:54 <ArtForz> sure you can
1174 2011-05-15 14:30:59 <roconnor> how?
1175 2011-05-15 14:31:15 molecular has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1176 2011-05-15 14:31:53 <sipa> i see your problem
1177 2011-05-15 14:32:02 <sipa> it's not the coinbase, but the block validty
1178 2011-05-15 14:32:04 <sipa> validity
1179 2011-05-15 14:32:06 <ArtForz> well, okay, for the value you have to sum up the other tx input-output diff
1180 2011-05-15 14:32:11 <roconnor> ArtForz: I wouldn't even build a dependency tree.  I would just add up all the outputs and all the intputs and make sure they balance.
1181 2011-05-15 14:32:17 molecular has joined
1182 2011-05-15 14:32:31 <sipa> for each tx?
1183 2011-05-15 14:32:40 <roconnor> for each block
1184 2011-05-15 14:32:46 jargon has joined
1185 2011-05-15 14:32:47 jargon has quit (Changing host)
1186 2011-05-15 14:32:47 jargon has joined
1187 2011-05-15 14:33:04 <sipa> the thing is you need a temporary use table while verifying a block
1188 2011-05-15 14:33:07 <roconnor> yes some txs may spend more than they input but as long as they are balanced by txs that spend less than they input, it is all fine.
1189 2011-05-15 14:33:12 <sipa> because it could be the block is invalid further on
1190 2011-05-15 14:33:32 <roconnor> as a miner I'd never accept a tx with a negative fee
1191 2011-05-15 14:33:32 <sipa> and you don't want to have the spent-table updated while just checking the block
1192 2011-05-15 14:33:47 <roconnor> but if miners want to accept transactiosn with negative fees, then that's fine with me.
1193 2011-05-15 14:34:02 <ArtForz> not with bitcoin
1194 2011-05-15 14:34:30 <roconnor> sipa: ya, see it is a kinda a pain.
1195 2011-05-15 14:34:47 <roconnor> though if I move the coinbase transaction to the end, then maybe it isn't so bad.
1196 2011-05-15 14:34:48 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: so if minted coins are usable after 100 blocks why does the client block them for 130?
1197 2011-05-15 14:34:54 <ArtForz> 120
1198 2011-05-15 14:34:58 <jrmithdobbs> err ya
1199 2011-05-15 14:34:59 <sipa> not sure
1200 2011-05-15 14:35:01 <ArtForz> no clue
1201 2011-05-15 14:35:02 <jrmithdobbs> typo
1202 2011-05-15 14:35:07 <sipa> maybe satoshi didn't feel like 100 was enough
1203 2011-05-15 14:35:13 <ArtForz> probably to prevent problems on reorg
1204 2011-05-15 14:35:13 <sipa> but didn't want to change the protocol :)
1205 2011-05-15 14:35:26 <ArtForz> imagine having a chain reorg that puts a tx in a earlier block in the new chain
1206 2011-05-15 14:35:28 <jrmithdobbs> should that be changed? artificial limits in the protocol do nothing but give advantages to people willing to widdle some consts
1207 2011-05-15 14:35:29 <roconnor> ArtForz: my point is that the bitcoin protocol could be more lax in block verification with no harm done.
1208 2011-05-15 14:35:37 <jrmithdobbs> err s/protocol/client/
1209 2011-05-15 14:35:41 <jrmithdobbs> christ, not awake yet, sorry ;)
1210 2011-05-15 14:35:53 <ArtForz> I still don't see how that is any simpler
1211 2011-05-15 14:36:15 <roconnor> ArtForz: because you don't have to build a temporary table to verify a block, like sipa noted.
1212 2011-05-15 14:36:16 <sipa> roconnor: i definitely don't want any miner putting a recursive spend in the block chain
1213 2011-05-15 14:36:22 <sipa> that's just wasted space
1214 2011-05-15 14:36:28 <ArtForz> roconnor: you still have to
1215 2011-05-15 14:36:43 <ArtForz> so... how do you detect double spends?
1216 2011-05-15 14:36:52 <sipa> in the same block
1217 2011-05-15 14:36:59 jargon has quit (Client Quit)
1218 2011-05-15 14:37:06 <jrmithdobbs> roconnor: anything that suggests block verification be more lax is going to cause an uproar by users anyways
1219 2011-05-15 14:37:28 <ArtForz> well, overall
1220 2011-05-15 14:37:39 <roconnor> jrmithdobbs: oh I'm not suggesting we change the protocol
1221 2011-05-15 14:37:39 <ArtForz> you can't just go mark outputs from older blocks spent while verifying a new block
1222 2011-05-15 14:37:48 <ArtForz> as you have to reoll that back if the block is invalid
1223 2011-05-15 14:37:57 <sipa> roconnor: but you are
1224 2011-05-15 14:38:14 <sipa> if your miner would allow things that other people don't accept
1225 2011-05-15 14:38:19 <sipa> you're forking the block chain
1226 2011-05-15 14:38:26 <roconnor> I'm not proposing these changes
1227 2011-05-15 14:38:26 <jrmithdobbs> roconnor: protocol requires it be ordered now, you want that req dropped, don't see how that's not a protocol change
1228 2011-05-15 14:38:50 <sipa> the point is that the purpose of the block chain is ordering transactions
1229 2011-05-15 14:38:50 <roconnor> I'm just noting that it would have been simpler if it had been this way and I'm sad that it is so complex.
1230 2011-05-15 14:38:54 <roconnor> or
1231 2011-05-15 14:39:04 <roconnor> I'm going to learn that this complexity is essentail.
1232 2011-05-15 14:39:09 <sipa> :)
1233 2011-05-15 14:39:26 <jrmithdobbs> i can't think of how to stop double spends within the same block without it being ordered
1234 2011-05-15 14:39:28 <roconnor> like I learned that it is important for coinbases to age.
1235 2011-05-15 14:39:51 <jrmithdobbs> without big complex changes to the verification code
1236 2011-05-15 14:40:11 <sipa> exactly
1237 2011-05-15 14:40:33 <jrmithdobbs> so that's the nuts and bolts of why it's ordered, ;p
1238 2011-05-15 14:41:10 MG4727 has left ()
1239 2011-05-15 14:41:31 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
1240 2011-05-15 14:42:03 phantomcircuit has joined
1241 2011-05-15 14:42:45 jargon has joined
1242 2011-05-15 14:42:46 jargon has quit (Changing host)
1243 2011-05-15 14:42:46 jargon has joined
1244 2011-05-15 14:43:16 unomi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1245 2011-05-15 14:43:20 <roconnor> ya, it could be done. it isn't so hard, but it is a bit more complex than ordering things.
1246 2011-05-15 14:43:38 <roconnor> anyhow, the fact that I cannot spend the coinbase solved my ciruclarity problems :D
1247 2011-05-15 14:43:49 <roconnor> so I'm pretty happy now.
1248 2011-05-15 14:44:03 justanotheruser has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1249 2011-05-15 14:44:17 chmod755 has joined
1250 2011-05-15 14:44:19 <jrmithdobbs> i've got to say, the btc protocol is one of the most well thought i've ever seen
1251 2011-05-15 14:44:24 <roconnor> I'll just verify the coinbase last, after I've computed the fees, instead of first, like it occurs in the tx list.
1252 2011-05-15 14:44:27 <jrmithdobbs> *thought out
1253 2011-05-15 14:44:50 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, the p2p protocol?
1254 2011-05-15 14:45:16 <jrmithdobbs> I actually made the comment to a friend the other day "I think we may have found something crypto-related that even djb wouldn't balk over" (followed immediately by an exception for the implementation itself, because, well, djb)
1255 2011-05-15 14:45:24 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: and the block chain format, yes
1256 2011-05-15 14:45:46 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, the p2p protocol is in a word, stupid
1257 2011-05-15 14:45:54 <roconnor> djb?
1258 2011-05-15 14:46:06 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: well, not the p2p protocol, the block chain format
1259 2011-05-15 14:46:21 <jrmithdobbs> roconnor: google
1260 2011-05-15 14:46:43 <jrmithdobbs> roconnor: because if you don't know the answer to that you're in for some fun reading.
1261 2011-05-15 14:46:56 <jrmithdobbs> heh
1262 2011-05-15 14:50:35 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1263 2011-05-15 14:54:14 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Clever quit message!)
1264 2011-05-15 14:54:28 phantomcircuit has joined
1265 2011-05-15 14:54:48 phantomcircuit has quit (Client Quit)
1266 2011-05-15 14:55:22 phantomcircuit has joined
1267 2011-05-15 14:57:04 bitcoin_bonus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1268 2011-05-15 14:57:25 danbri has joined
1269 2011-05-15 14:57:57 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1270 2011-05-15 14:58:04 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1271 2011-05-15 14:58:22 Clarence has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1272 2011-05-15 14:58:50 nixoid has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1273 2011-05-15 15:06:34 gdoteof_home has joined
1274 2011-05-15 15:10:36 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1275 2011-05-15 15:11:01 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1276 2011-05-15 15:14:44 jargon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1277 2011-05-15 15:17:04 TD has joined
1278 2011-05-15 15:17:54 behemoth is now known as KBme
1279 2011-05-15 15:29:35 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1280 2011-05-15 15:32:54 x6763 has joined
1281 2011-05-15 15:39:36 <jrmithdobbs> dumb question
1282 2011-05-15 15:40:05 <jrmithdobbs> are there enough rpc calls at this point to make it possible to reorg the gui client a bit to actually display numbers/etc from bitcoind while connected via rpc?
1283 2011-05-15 15:40:09 <jrmithdobbs> if not, what's missing?
1284 2011-05-15 15:40:33 <jrmithdobbs> I think some of the block inspection stuff isn't quite there, anything else?
1285 2011-05-15 15:41:08 <jrmithdobbs> (sick of copying wallet.dat to my laptop or launching it with remote x on different ports ;P)
1286 2011-05-15 15:45:16 fused has joined
1287 2011-05-15 15:46:03 <fused> can someone help a newb out?
1288 2011-05-15 15:46:12 eternal1 has joined
1289 2011-05-15 15:46:25 mookey has joined
1290 2011-05-15 15:46:55 <mookey> hello all.  trying to get some assistance getting an Nvidia card to connect to a pool.
1291 2011-05-15 15:47:42 <lfm> mookey: whats the problem?
1292 2011-05-15 15:47:43 <phantomcircuit> ask more specific questions
1293 2011-05-15 15:48:13 <mookey> poclbm.exe --host=mining.bitcoin.cz --port=8832 --user=mookey.kids --pass=mypassword --device=0 -w 256
1294 2011-05-15 15:48:16 <mookey> is what i run
1295 2011-05-15 15:48:34 <mookey> i get Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC
1296 2011-05-15 15:48:56 <mookey> I do have NVIDIA CUDA & ATI Stream installed - will not work on either.
1297 2011-05-15 15:49:01 <lfm> I think thats normal, problems come and go with the pool servers
1298 2011-05-15 15:49:16 NewMike has joined
1299 2011-05-15 15:49:23 <mookey> whoops add  --platform=0  too
1300 2011-05-15 15:49:25 LanceRushing has joined
1301 2011-05-15 15:49:40 <mookey> its working on my other system just fine.  wouldn't I see that issue on both systems?
1302 2011-05-15 15:50:09 <lfm> what messages?
1303 2011-05-15 15:50:32 <mookey> Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC.
1304 2011-05-15 15:50:39 <fused> trying to setup puddinpops pool miner, the server is online ok and the remoteminer-cpu client connects but just requests hashes doesn't do any actual work - cpu is at 0%
1305 2011-05-15 15:51:22 <lfm> mookey: are you using the same user/password on both?
1306 2011-05-15 15:51:45 <fused> I didn't set a username just password in the bitcoin.conf
1307 2011-05-15 15:51:45 <mookey> no.  different user - setup but I am using same password for both users
1308 2011-05-15 15:52:03 AStove has quit ()
1309 2011-05-15 15:52:22 <mookey> ie:  usera and userb  both using same pass
1310 2011-05-15 15:52:35 <lfm> mookey: that should be good
1311 2011-05-15 15:52:58 <mookey> yeah, i am wondering if I didn't setup my nvidia GEforce 8800 GT right.
1312 2011-05-15 15:53:32 <mookey> lfm:  GPU Caps Viewer shows OpenCL 1.0 CUDA 3.2.2
1313 2011-05-15 15:53:49 <lfm> thats should be ok too
1314 2011-05-15 15:53:49 <mookey> both CUDA and OpenCL are on
1315 2011-05-15 15:53:58 LanceRushing has quit (Client Quit)
1316 2011-05-15 15:54:44 <mookey> also most current driver
1317 2011-05-15 15:54:46 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1318 2011-05-15 15:54:59 <lfm> nvidia runs slightly better with cuda miners I have heard but opencl may be faster now since more work is put into opencl
1319 2011-05-15 15:55:33 <phantomcircuit> it's not going to be super fast anyways so... whatever
1320 2011-05-15 15:55:55 <mookey> is there an issue having both installed?  or just select which "paltform" when i try and start it.
1321 2011-05-15 15:56:03 <lfm> 8800 is one of the better nvidia
1322 2011-05-15 15:56:32 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1323 2011-05-15 15:56:32 <mookey> this system sits on all the time anyways.  figured might as well add it to a pool :)
1324 2011-05-15 15:57:10 <lfm> I think you have to install both really, thats just the drivers. the miner will use opencl or cuda, depends what you download
1325 2011-05-15 15:57:15 NewMike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1326 2011-05-15 15:57:34 <mookey> k
1327 2011-05-15 15:57:46 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: luke.dashjr.org: Connection Refused
1328 2011-05-15 15:58:21 <mookey> i think i will try a different miner to see what happens.  thanks for the parity check
1329 2011-05-15 15:59:23 <lfm> mookey: good luck
1330 2011-05-15 16:00:04 <mookey> thanks lfm
1331 2011-05-15 16:00:40 <mookey> btw - if GUIminer opens, that should mean openCL is working correctly yes?
1332 2011-05-15 16:01:04 <lfm> dunno guiminer
1333 2011-05-15 16:01:08 <mookey> k
1334 2011-05-15 16:01:09 <mookey> ty
1335 2011-05-15 16:02:35 maikmerten has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1336 2011-05-15 16:05:37 mookey has left ()
1337 2011-05-15 16:09:03 echelon has joined
1338 2011-05-15 16:14:10 Cusipzzz has joined
1339 2011-05-15 16:15:31 Moonies has joined
1340 2011-05-15 16:15:51 nixoid has joined
1341 2011-05-15 16:17:29 TheKid has joined
1342 2011-05-15 16:17:32 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
1343 2011-05-15 16:17:32 TheKid has joined
1344 2011-05-15 16:17:57 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1345 2011-05-15 16:18:45 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1346 2011-05-15 16:21:02 finnomenon has left ()
1347 2011-05-15 16:21:14 galaxyAbstractor has joined
1348 2011-05-15 16:21:19 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1349 2011-05-15 16:22:27 mesees has joined
1350 2011-05-15 16:25:36 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1351 2011-05-15 16:26:43 sethsethseth_ has joined
1352 2011-05-15 16:28:03 sethsethseth__ has joined
1353 2011-05-15 16:28:25 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1354 2011-05-15 16:29:06 altamic has joined
1355 2011-05-15 16:29:07 altamic has quit (Changing host)
1356 2011-05-15 16:29:07 altamic has joined
1357 2011-05-15 16:30:51 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1358 2011-05-15 16:43:00 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1359 2011-05-15 16:43:09 gavinandresen has joined
1360 2011-05-15 16:45:23 <BlueMatt> if you have some free time and want to update bitcoin translations for the next release: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=8390.0
1361 2011-05-15 16:48:55 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
1362 2011-05-15 16:53:51 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1363 2011-05-15 16:53:59 <[Tycho]> Is there a description of bitcoin address "checksum" or whatever checking algoritm ?
1364 2011-05-15 16:54:47 <lulzplzkthx> This. ^
1365 2011-05-15 16:54:54 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address
1366 2011-05-15 16:55:06 <lfm> [Tycho]: mainly just in the code, it is a ripem160(sha256(addr)) then just uses one word from the result
1367 2011-05-15 16:55:16 <phantomcircuit> i swear it used to be there
1368 2011-05-15 16:58:41 <[Tycho]> phantomcircuit, almost there.
1369 2011-05-15 16:59:08 <[Tycho]> So it can't be less than 25 chars and more than 34 ?
1370 2011-05-15 16:59:20 <phantomcircuit> that's what it says
1371 2011-05-15 16:59:34 fimp has joined
1372 2011-05-15 17:01:51 fimp has quit (Client Quit)
1373 2011-05-15 17:02:55 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Wladimir J. van der Laan master * r223b6f1 / (25 files): make bitcoin include files more modular - http://bit.ly/ivxEEC
1374 2011-05-15 17:03:05 <lfm> [Tycho]: I misremembered, its actually just the first 4 bytes os a sha256(sha256(key))
1375 2011-05-15 17:03:43 <[Tycho]> Where are they ?
1376 2011-05-15 17:04:03 <lfm> they?
1377 2011-05-15 17:04:09 <[Tycho]> Those bytes
1378 2011-05-15 17:04:33 purpleplastic has joined
1379 2011-05-15 17:04:48 mac-mini has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1380 2011-05-15 17:05:13 <gavinandresen> [Tycho] : see https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcointools/blob/master/base58.py#L76
1381 2011-05-15 17:05:29 <lfm> take the 4 bytes and put em in bytes 21 .. 24 of an addr then do the base58 thing on the result
1382 2011-05-15 17:05:32 <[Tycho]> Thanks.
1383 2011-05-15 17:06:24 <sipa> [Tycho]: let X="0" ++ ripemd160(sha256(pubkey)), let Y=front4bytes(sha256(sha256(X))), then the address is base58(X++Y)
1384 2011-05-15 17:06:45 <[Tycho]> "0", "O", "l" and "I" are stripped out or not present initially ?
1385 2011-05-15 17:06:51 <lfm> ya if ++ is concatenate
1386 2011-05-15 17:06:52 <sipa> never there
1387 2011-05-15 17:07:02 <gavinandresen> Note "0", you want binary 0
1388 2011-05-15 17:07:05 <sipa> and the "0" in my formula is actually "\000"
1389 2011-05-15 17:07:18 <phantomcircuit> there's something wrong with the initial block download
1390 2011-05-15 17:07:27 mac-mini has joined
1391 2011-05-15 17:07:34 <phantomcircuit> it stalls and requests blocks it's already got
1392 2011-05-15 17:07:48 <phantomcircuit> which might explain why it can take so long
1393 2011-05-15 17:08:04 <[Tycho]> Some people keep entering wrong stuff in address field so i want to tell them when they are wrong.
1394 2011-05-15 17:08:41 <gavinandresen> If it is talking to a version 0.3.20.1 node there's a bug that can cause stalls (the 0.3.20.1 node will drop the connection because it thinks you're flooding it)
1395 2011-05-15 17:08:58 <lfm> bin/bitcoind validateaddress <bitcoinaddress>
1396 2011-05-15 17:09:21 <BlueMatt> yay jenkins is autobuilding next version :)
1397 2011-05-15 17:09:36 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: in case you missed it last night, if you break the build BlueMattBot will post here that build failed
1398 2011-05-15 17:09:46 <BlueMatt> (on mingw or linux)
1399 2011-05-15 17:10:02 Wack0 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1400 2011-05-15 17:10:03 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt:  nice-- can I get it to send me an email?
1401 2011-05-15 17:10:17 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: sure can do...
1402 2011-05-15 17:10:30 <gavinandresen> ... cause I don't get enough email already....
1403 2011-05-15 17:10:41 <lfm> ehe
1404 2011-05-15 17:11:02 <sipa> hmmm, any reason why that attack described by Enochian on the dev forum wouldn't work?
1405 2011-05-15 17:11:53 <phantomcircuit> sipa, link?
1406 2011-05-15 17:12:07 <sipa> http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=8392.0
1407 2011-05-15 17:12:32 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #17: FAILURE in 4 min 58 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/17/
1408 2011-05-15 17:12:32 <BlueMattBot> witchspace81: make bitcoin include files more modular
1409 2011-05-15 17:12:33 RichardG has quit (Quit: QUIIIIIIIIIIIIIT)
1410 2011-05-15 17:12:43 <BlueMatt> ah, build fail
1411 2011-05-15 17:12:43 <sipa> of course, the modified echoed transaction will conflict with the original, so in most cases, the original (which was sent slightly earlier) will win
1412 2011-05-15 17:12:49 <BlueMatt> well atleast it works
1413 2011-05-15 17:13:10 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: well go to that link and click console output...looks like mingw doesnt like string
1414 2011-05-15 17:13:21 RichardG has joined
1415 2011-05-15 17:14:00 RichardG has quit (Changing host)
1416 2011-05-15 17:14:00 RichardG has joined
1417 2011-05-15 17:14:21 Wack0 has joined
1418 2011-05-15 17:14:32 <gavinandresen> looks like a missed std::string
1419 2011-05-15 17:15:06 <BlueMatt> as a side note, I can give you an account on jenkins if you want to mess with it to get it to build one of your repos when you need mingw testing
1420 2011-05-15 17:15:35 <sipa> let me guess, a missed std:: prefix in a mingw-only part?
1421 2011-05-15 17:15:44 <BlueMatt> for some reason, yes
1422 2011-05-15 17:16:08 fused has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1423 2011-05-15 17:17:00 <gavinandresen> Do either of you have a mingw build environment handy?  Can you see if there are any more?
1424 2011-05-15 17:17:15 <sipa> BlueMatt's jenkins does :)
1425 2011-05-15 17:17:24 <sipa> i don't
1426 2011-05-15 17:17:56 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: if you push to a temp repo, Ill set up a temp jenkins to build test from
1427 2011-05-15 17:18:27 BitMark has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1428 2011-05-15 17:20:25 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/tree/mingwbuild
1429 2011-05-15 17:21:20 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: building: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin%20Test/1/console
1430 2011-05-15 17:23:29 <sipa> BlueMatt: will the gitian build script be updated to also build mingw?
1431 2011-05-15 17:23:53 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, Ive got an untested one, but Im waiting for autotools to really write one for a pull request
1432 2011-05-15 17:24:02 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: do you want an account on jenkins to build when Im not here?
1433 2011-05-15 17:24:05 <BlueMatt> sipa ^
1434 2011-05-15 17:24:43 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: sure, that'd be very helpful.
1435 2011-05-15 17:24:48 <sipa> i've made the incorrect assumption that if something builds for linux, it will also build on mingw, so yes :)
1436 2011-05-15 17:24:52 <sipa> + twice
1437 2011-05-15 17:25:04 <BlueMatt> query me a password and Ill put accounts up
1438 2011-05-15 17:25:16 <BlueMatt> and emails
1439 2011-05-15 17:25:26 sec^nd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1440 2011-05-15 17:26:44 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: rm: cannot remove `obj/nogui': Is a directory   ... ???
1441 2011-05-15 17:27:00 <BlueMatt> sorry, wrote the build script wrong...
1442 2011-05-15 17:27:07 dissipate has joined
1443 2011-05-15 17:27:40 spitteler has joined
1444 2011-05-15 17:28:12 purpleplastic has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1445 2011-05-15 17:28:35 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: removed linux build, itl go right to mingw http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin%20MinGW%20Test/3/console
1446 2011-05-15 17:30:30 BlueMattBot has quit ()
1447 2011-05-15 17:30:39 <spitteler> BlueMatt, is there a central place like a JIRA to submit feature requests?
1448 2011-05-15 17:30:48 <sipa> spitteler: github
1449 2011-05-15 17:31:21 BlueMattBot has joined
1450 2011-05-15 17:31:39 Optimo has joined
1451 2011-05-15 17:32:12 <spitteler> thanks sipa, i will post there.  my suggestion is to allow bitcoin to specify where to read the wallet so that it would be possible to maintain a seperate travel wallet on a usb drive
1452 2011-05-15 17:32:24 <BlueMatt> you can, -datadir
1453 2011-05-15 17:32:27 <Optimo> hi. I posted a reply on the forum regarding getting appstore-rejected btc apps onto cydia.
1454 2011-05-15 17:32:28 <BlueMatt> thought not via gui
1455 2011-05-15 17:35:34 Xer has joined
1456 2011-05-15 17:35:56 BlueMattBot has quit (Client Quit)
1457 2011-05-15 17:36:45 BlueMattBot has joined
1458 2011-05-15 17:38:04 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: build went through fine http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin%20MinGW%20Test/3/console
1459 2011-05-15 17:38:23 <gavinandresen> sipa:  re: Enochian's new attack vector:  looks like a real threat to me, unless I'm missing something.
1460 2011-05-15 17:38:57 <sipa> what would happen, imho
1461 2011-05-15 17:39:09 <sipa> is that when the echoed tx would win
1462 2011-05-15 17:39:27 AStove has joined
1463 2011-05-15 17:39:34 <sipa> is that both sender and receiver suddenly see two tx's
1464 2011-05-15 17:39:42 <sipa> one confirmed, one unconfirmed
1465 2011-05-15 17:39:49 <sipa> so not really a problem
1466 2011-05-15 17:40:04 <gavinandresen> sipa:  I'm guessing fix is to DER-decode then DER-encode and make sure the result matches the original signature.  Or just use the decode-re-encoded version as the canonical version for the txid hash
1467 2011-05-15 17:40:16 BlueMattBot has quit (Client Quit)
1468 2011-05-15 17:40:36 <sipa> when verifying a tx, if the encode(decode(sig)) != sig, reject the tx
1469 2011-05-15 17:40:40 <gavinandresen> sipa:  hmm, yeah with your recent fixes it probably just looks like a weird double spend
1470 2011-05-15 17:41:02 BlueMattBot has joined
1471 2011-05-15 17:41:51 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rf441949 / src/util.h : Build error mingw, missing std:: - http://bit.ly/mw2A8b
1472 2011-05-15 17:45:12 <da2ce7> hey gavin: https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=8379.0
1473 2011-05-15 17:45:16 <da2ce7> what do you think?
1474 2011-05-15 17:47:48 <gavinandresen> da2ce7: I want a nice libbitcoin.   There's already a transport layer protocol (and even python and java and c++ code that speaks it)
1475 2011-05-15 17:47:55 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
1476 2011-05-15 17:47:56 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.55,"low":5.83,"vol":46480,"buy":6.323,"sell":6.6987,"last":6.323}}
1477 2011-05-15 17:49:14 <gavinandresen> da2ce7: I'm not so enthusiastic about another way for multiple apps to connect to a running bitcoind at the same time, but maybe that's my unix roots where smaller tools that do one thing well is The Way
1478 2011-05-15 17:49:50 <sipa> bitcoin currently doesn't really align with the unix philosophy, though
1479 2011-05-15 17:50:20 <da2ce7> gavinandersen, if you can have mutiple transport apps that means that it is trivial to make an app that takes the block chain and puts it on a usb key.
1480 2011-05-15 17:50:40 <da2ce7> the bitcoind will not need to dissconnect from the other networks to do that.
1481 2011-05-15 17:50:51 <lfm> da2ce7: huh? it is trivial now
1482 2011-05-15 17:50:56 <sipa> i do agree that just an rpc call to extract part of the block chain, or feed an exported part of the blockchain, would be useful
1483 2011-05-15 17:50:59 <gavinandresen> da2ce7: okey doke.  Putting the block chain on a usb key isn't on my high-priority list....
1484 2011-05-15 17:51:04 jostmey has joined
1485 2011-05-15 17:51:15 jostmey has left ()
1486 2011-05-15 17:51:26 <da2ce7> also the BtcFn project will want to connect to muitlpe transport layers... to bridge the networks.
1487 2011-05-15 17:51:50 <gavinandresen> da2ce7: ... so write a dual-stack network client that speaks the existing bitcoin protocol and the new one.
1488 2011-05-15 17:51:50 <da2ce7> that is why it is inportant to have mutiple connections to the same bitcoind.
1489 2011-05-15 17:52:00 <gavinandresen> (preferably in python, because I like python :)
1490 2011-05-15 17:52:10 jostmey has joined
1491 2011-05-15 17:52:15 <sipa> import soul
1492 2011-05-15 17:52:40 <dinox> not possible to send free transactions with bitcoind anymore?
1493 2011-05-15 17:52:53 <gavinandresen> dinox:  not spammy-looking ones, no.
1494 2011-05-15 17:52:58 <BlueMatt> dinox: it is for medium-sized transactions with old inputs
1495 2011-05-15 17:53:08 <da2ce7> I beleve there should be a simple binary API that is like: IO blocks... IO transactions.
1496 2011-05-15 17:53:28 <da2ce7> there is no p2p to speak of.
1497 2011-05-15 17:53:29 <gavinandresen> da2ce7: why binary?
1498 2011-05-15 17:53:40 <dinox> aha.. How much do I have to send for bitcoind to accept it as a free transaction?
1499 2011-05-15 17:53:42 <gmaxwell> You mean like the protocol pushpool implements?
1500 2011-05-15 17:53:45 jostmey has left ()
1501 2011-05-15 17:54:07 <sipa> dinox: size in bytes, not in amount
1502 2011-05-15 17:54:33 <da2ce7> this means that the bitcoind dosn't need to worry about network code.
1503 2011-05-15 17:54:37 <gavinandresen> dinox: 1 BTC that is 1 day old from 1 transaction (250 bytes) can be sent without a fee
1504 2011-05-15 17:54:40 <da2ce7> that can be in a differnt application intirely.
1505 2011-05-15 17:54:52 theorb has joined
1506 2011-05-15 17:54:59 <dinox> thanks gavinandresen
1507 2011-05-15 17:55:10 Titeuf_87 has joined
1508 2011-05-15 17:55:17 <lfm> dinox: are you asking how small your spam has to be to be accepted?
1509 2011-05-15 17:55:31 <da2ce7> all it needs to worry about is getting and checking blocks and transcations.
1510 2011-05-15 17:55:47 <gmaxwell> da2ce7: and speaking whatever protocol you want it to speak.
1511 2011-05-15 17:56:04 <gavinandresen> da2ce7: that sounds like what I want the core of libbitcoin to be.
1512 2011-05-15 17:56:12 <dinox> lfm: Of course not.. Im setting up a web service and dont want to pay fees on my payments
1513 2011-05-15 17:56:17 BlueMattBot has quit ()
1514 2011-05-15 17:56:34 <sipa> gavinandresen: i've been trying to split off the wallet handling code into a CWallet class this weekend... way more work than expected though
1515 2011-05-15 17:56:37 theorbtwo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1516 2011-05-15 17:56:44 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
1517 2011-05-15 17:57:01 BlueMattBot has joined
1518 2011-05-15 17:57:09 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ok, it should send an email when the build breaks to your gmail
1519 2011-05-15 17:57:18 <gavinandresen> sipa:  that's why I haven't done any work to make a libbitcoin-- i know it'll be WAY more work than I think, and there are much higher priority things to get done.
1520 2011-05-15 17:57:27 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt:  thanks!
1521 2011-05-15 17:57:36 <da2ce7> maybe using memory socket or something like that...
1522 2011-05-15 17:57:56 <spitteler> thanks for the tip BlueMatt, i now have a portable/encrypted usb wallet
1523 2011-05-15 17:58:19 <BlueMatt> spitteler: I think you mean someone else?
1524 2011-05-15 17:58:35 <spitteler> [13:26] <@BlueMatt> you can, -datadir
1525 2011-05-15 17:58:41 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
1526 2011-05-15 17:58:44 <BlueMatt> yea np
1527 2011-05-15 17:58:45 <sipa> gavinandresen: the advantage of a separate CWallet is that you would be able to load multiple wallet.dat files at the same time, or load an import into a new one, see its balance, move coins from one to another, .... *dreams*
1528 2011-05-15 17:58:45 <spitteler> :)
1529 2011-05-15 17:59:12 justmoon has joined
1530 2011-05-15 17:59:12 justmoon has quit (Changing host)
1531 2011-05-15 17:59:12 justmoon has joined
1532 2011-05-15 18:00:51 <da2ce7> we are going to have all sorts of differnt transport protocols for bitcoin in the future. Making a very simple API that connects to other applications imho is the best way to get the data in and out.
1533 2011-05-15 18:01:24 <da2ce7> it should also be fast, so you can quickly send the entire block chain into bitcoin.
1534 2011-05-15 18:02:05 <da2ce7> and it dosn't need to be human readable or esp extendable, as it will only deal with transactions and blocks.
1535 2011-05-15 18:02:43 <dissipate> da2ce7, sounds like a job for Google Protocol Buffers
1536 2011-05-15 18:03:04 galaxyAbstractor has joined
1537 2011-05-15 18:06:35 Kiba has joined
1538 2011-05-15 18:09:08 vorlov has joined
1539 2011-05-15 18:09:14 <da2ce7> hmm, that may work... the licences do not clash.
1540 2011-05-15 18:09:55 warpi has joined
1541 2011-05-15 18:12:34 ArtForzZz has joined
1542 2011-05-15 18:14:55 <forrestv> has long polling been standardized?
1543 2011-05-15 18:16:04 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1544 2011-05-15 18:17:57 <BlueMatt> forrestv: yea, pretty much
1545 2011-05-15 18:22:47 warpi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1546 2011-05-15 18:26:46 warpi has joined
1547 2011-05-15 18:26:51 HarryS has quit (Quit: neues Holzmodem, bbl)
1548 2011-05-15 18:26:55 TD has joined
1549 2011-05-15 18:28:03 <forrestv> BlueMatt, well is there a spec anywhere for it? http://deepbit.net/longpolling.php says that you can just do a GET request to the url, but jgarzik's cpu miner does a normal json-rpc post to the url
1550 2011-05-15 18:28:12 <forrestv> POST
1551 2011-05-15 18:28:37 Raziel_ has joined
1552 2011-05-15 18:30:43 Raziel__ has joined
1553 2011-05-15 18:30:56 <sipa> forrestv: the nice thing about standards is that there are some many to choose from
1554 2011-05-15 18:31:22 <forrestv> :/
1555 2011-05-15 18:32:42 RazielZ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1556 2011-05-15 18:32:44 <ArtForzZz> standard says empty GET, jgarziks cpuminer and diablos miner do a POST, yay!
1557 2011-05-15 18:33:16 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1558 2011-05-15 18:33:36 <forrestv> empty GET doesn't even make sense if you want a json-rpc response
1559 2011-05-15 18:33:41 <ArtForzZz> why?
1560 2011-05-15 18:33:52 <forrestv> because the response includes the id
1561 2011-05-15 18:34:01 <BlueMatt> oooo, the guy pushed bitcoin qt :):):):):)
1562 2011-05-15 18:34:04 <forrestv> and the request implies the method, but not the id
1563 2011-05-15 18:34:08 Raziel_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1564 2011-05-15 18:34:10 <ArtForzZz> well, in that case the response can contain *any* id
1565 2011-05-15 18:34:33 <ArtForzZz> which is no problem in this case, as we're waiting for exactly *one* response
1566 2011-05-15 18:34:37 Raziel__ has quit (Client Quit)
1567 2011-05-15 18:34:50 <forrestv> yeah, just seems completely untidy
1568 2011-05-15 18:35:13 <forrestv> why not just make a new call ... 'waitwork'
1569 2011-05-15 18:36:03 <ArtForzZz> no clue
1570 2011-05-15 18:36:05 <sipa> BlueMatt: \o/
1571 2011-05-15 18:36:07 * sipa builds
1572 2011-05-15 18:36:12 <ArtForzZz> but thats what we have now :/
1573 2011-05-15 18:36:56 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1574 2011-05-15 18:37:10 <sipa> "This has to be done: Further integration of bitcoin core, so that it can actually connect to the network, send commands and get feedback"
1575 2011-05-15 18:37:14 <sipa> bummer :(
1576 2011-05-15 18:37:24 dissipate has joined
1577 2011-05-15 18:38:04 <BlueMatt> awww
1578 2011-05-15 18:38:25 * sipa builds anyway
1579 2011-05-15 18:38:39 <TD> which app is this?
1580 2011-05-15 18:38:46 <sipa> TD: bitcoin-qt
1581 2011-05-15 18:38:51 <TD> ah
1582 2011-05-15 18:39:46 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/laanwj/bitcoin-qt
1583 2011-05-15 18:40:30 <TD> the idea is that wxWidgets isn't good enough ?
1584 2011-05-15 18:40:37 <sipa> yes
1585 2011-05-15 18:40:54 <BlueMatt> the idea is to get into package managers
1586 2011-05-15 18:41:03 <sipa> hmm, undefined reference to ssl stuff
1587 2011-05-15 18:41:09 <sipa> strange, it links with -lssl
1588 2011-05-15 18:41:09 <TD> why can't bitcoin get into package repositories now?
1589 2011-05-15 18:41:09 <BlueMatt> and people always seem to complain about wx
1590 2011-05-15 18:41:14 <BlueMatt> wx 2.9
1591 2011-05-15 18:41:32 <TD> *shrug* people on linux can just use statically linked binaries
1592 2011-05-15 18:41:37 <BlueMatt> its "developer release" and no package repo will let us static link "developer wx"
1593 2011-05-15 18:41:38 <xelister> what is Qt's licence now?
1594 2011-05-15 18:41:53 BitterTea has joined
1595 2011-05-15 18:41:54 BitterTea has quit (Changing host)
1596 2011-05-15 18:41:54 BitterTea has joined
1597 2011-05-15 18:42:00 * TD wasted far too much time several years ago on linux packaging stuff
1598 2011-05-15 18:42:05 <roconnor> the can the inputs to a coinbase transcaction be non-trival.  i.e. can I mint a coin and combine it with another coin at once?
1599 2011-05-15 18:42:12 <TD> debians policies really don't justify rewriting the entire gui
1600 2011-05-15 18:42:18 <xelister> is Qt usable also in close source commerciall projects without paying to Qt owners and without being on their whim
1601 2011-05-15 18:42:23 <sipa> roconnor: no, a coinbase does not have any inputs
1602 2011-05-15 18:42:30 <sipa> roconnor: except the null input
1603 2011-05-15 18:42:32 <TD> but whatever :)
1604 2011-05-15 18:42:43 <BlueMatt> roconnor: lgpl iirc
1605 2011-05-15 18:42:45 <sipa> roconnor: it can have multiple outputs though, and those can be anything
1606 2011-05-15 18:42:51 <roconnor> sipa: a list of length 1 containing the null input.
1607 2011-05-15 18:43:05 <BlueMatt> TD: meh, I disagree, its not just debian its pretty much literally everyone...
1608 2011-05-15 18:43:06 <sipa> roconnor: indeed
1609 2011-05-15 18:43:12 <BlueMatt> plus its just all the complaints about wx
1610 2011-05-15 18:43:19 <roconnor> sipa: any known reason for that instead of just the empty list?
1611 2011-05-15 18:43:38 <sipa> roconnor: yes, to have a extraNonce
1612 2011-05-15 18:43:40 <roconnor> oh right
1613 2011-05-15 18:43:59 Incitatus has joined
1614 2011-05-15 18:44:22 <sipa> roconnor: still no idea about whether it's possible to just put x instead of x mod n in an ecdsa sig?
1615 2011-05-15 18:44:47 <roconnor> sipa: after thinking about it myself I can't imagine any reason not to put x.
1616 2011-05-15 18:44:52 <roconnor> it's not like it is hard to compute x from r
1617 2011-05-15 18:45:05 <roconnor> so I can't imagine any possible security implications
1618 2011-05-15 18:45:11 <sipa> indeed
1619 2011-05-15 18:45:15 <roconnor> but I'm not a cryptographer ... though my friends are :D
1620 2011-05-15 18:45:30 <TD> sipa: did you ever figure out why the scriptSig also has difficulty bits inside it?
1621 2011-05-15 18:45:44 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1622 2011-05-15 18:45:47 <sipa> TD: no, never understood that either
1623 2011-05-15 18:46:27 <roconnor> hi TD
1624 2011-05-15 18:46:55 <TD> hi
1625 2011-05-15 18:47:06 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: so if I understood what you were saying earlier, txns spending coins generated 100 blocks previous will validate, the client just wont let you spend them, correct?
1626 2011-05-15 18:47:15 <sipa> yes
1627 2011-05-15 18:48:11 <jrmithdobbs> you think the client should be changed to allow it? seems like it gives any miners willing to fiddle that const value a slight advantage in volatile market conditions
1628 2011-05-15 18:49:02 <sipa> i doubt it
1629 2011-05-15 18:49:17 <jrmithdobbs> well, for instance
1630 2011-05-15 18:49:39 <jrmithdobbs> i could have sold another ~10 coins at 8.5 the other day had mine been modified to do so
1631 2011-05-15 18:49:59 <BlueMatt> hey, qt ui built and opened
1632 2011-05-15 18:50:06 <BlueMatt> looks cool, even if it is dummy data
1633 2011-05-15 18:50:09 <roconnor> jrmithdobbs: you should totally mod your mine
1634 2011-05-15 18:50:16 <BlueMatt> god I wish I had 1,234.567890 BTC
1635 2011-05-15 18:51:02 <TD> heh
1636 2011-05-15 18:51:12 <TD> for the cool factor, the investment factor or cuz you want to spend them?
1637 2011-05-15 18:51:21 <BlueMatt> bit of it all
1638 2011-05-15 18:51:35 <BlueMatt> 8k USD sitting around would be quite nice atm
1639 2011-05-15 18:51:37 <jrmithdobbs> haha
1640 2011-05-15 18:51:42 <sipa> when i was testing my bitcoin wallet import function
1641 2011-05-15 18:51:44 <xelister> BlueMatt: Qt UI for bitcoin already exists?
1642 2011-05-15 18:51:48 <sipa> initially it didn't lock
1643 2011-05-15 18:51:55 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: see the Value overflow incident for why 100 blocks to mature is a good idea:  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Incidents
1644 2011-05-15 18:51:55 <sipa> so the UI updated while it was loading
1645 2011-05-15 18:51:59 <BlueMatt> xelister: exists, but it doesnt link to bitcoin itself, just has dummy data
1646 2011-05-15 18:52:11 * TD is waiting for a value crash
1647 2011-05-15 18:52:13 <sipa> suddenly it showed all my transactions
1648 2011-05-15 18:52:18 <TD> then i'll buy some more :)
1649 2011-05-15 18:52:21 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: no i understand why it's 100 blocks, i was commenting on the fact that the client artificially increases it to 120
1650 2011-05-15 18:52:22 <sipa> without having marked them spent
1651 2011-05-15 18:52:47 <sipa> so my balance was a an orders of magniture higher than what i have now :)
1652 2011-05-15 18:53:54 <jrmithdobbs> the micropayment incident is pretty lol
1653 2011-05-15 18:54:03 <jrmithdobbs> what a perfect storm
1654 2011-05-15 18:54:49 <sipa> TD: to what do you expect it to crash?
1655 2011-05-15 18:54:56 <TD> i have no idea
1656 2011-05-15 18:55:02 BitterTea has quit (Quit: leaving)
1657 2011-05-15 18:55:05 <TD> but when I look at the trade page I don't see a $50 million economy ;)
1658 2011-05-15 18:55:06 <BlueMatt> it did hit 8, now its at 6.X
1659 2011-05-15 18:55:26 * BlueMatt is hoping for a crash back to 0.03 to buy a ton
1660 2011-05-15 18:55:35 <TD> well i doubt it will go that far :)
1661 2011-05-15 18:55:38 <TD> unless something really bad happens
1662 2011-05-15 18:55:45 <BlueMatt> I agree
1663 2011-05-15 18:55:48 <TD> if it falls back down to around a dollar i won't be totally surprised though
1664 2011-05-15 18:55:52 <BlueMatt> Id like to see it sit around 1
1665 2011-05-15 18:55:52 <jrmithdobbs> ya i'm thinking it's not going to fall below 3.5 tbqh
1666 2011-05-15 18:56:01 <jrmithdobbs> but 4-6 somewhere is anyone's guess
1667 2011-05-15 18:56:05 MartianW has joined
1668 2011-05-15 18:56:23 <lulzplzkthx> Assuming 6 blocks per hour, there should be 144 per day, correct?
1669 2011-05-15 18:56:34 <BlueMatt> who will be the first to build some android@home bitcoin stuff?
1670 2011-05-15 18:56:34 <sipa> yes
1671 2011-05-15 18:56:35 <jrmithdobbs> too many people bought in at 3.5 for them to be willing to sell much lower atm
1672 2011-05-15 18:56:50 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: android@home?
1673 2011-05-15 18:56:53 <TD> heh
1674 2011-05-15 18:57:02 <lulzplzkthx> Or 288 per two days. Is it concerning then that at 8 two days ago, I was sent something, it now has 422 confirmations, and it has been less than two days (currently almost 3.)
1675 2011-05-15 18:57:03 <TD> well, let's get NFC trading working first :-)
1676 2011-05-15 18:57:07 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: generic hardware control from android
1677 2011-05-15 18:57:08 <roconnor> NFC?
1678 2011-05-15 18:57:15 <BlueMatt> near field communication
1679 2011-05-15 18:57:29 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rb975ca7 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Minor adjustments to increase speed - http://bit.ly/iPPna2
1680 2011-05-15 18:57:30 <roconnor> what's NFC trading?
1681 2011-05-15 18:57:30 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: don't see how that's helpful?
1682 2011-05-15 18:57:32 <Optimo> anybody with an app rejected by apple, come to cydia I can help make it happen
1683 2011-05-15 18:57:34 <TD> lulzplzkthx: 10 minutes is an average
1684 2011-05-15 18:57:42 <TD> roconnor: near-field communications. tap to pay.
1685 2011-05-15 18:57:43 <BlueMatt> TD: now that I really want to see...want to talk to some of your colleagues in the android dept to do that?
1686 2011-05-15 18:57:56 <TD> it can be done already, if you have a nexus s
1687 2011-05-15 18:57:57 <lulzplzkthx> TD: but it isn't.
1688 2011-05-15 18:57:57 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: just tap your phone to pay
1689 2011-05-15 18:58:03 <lulzplzkthx> divide that by the hours
1690 2011-05-15 18:58:04 <TD> once there's an android app
1691 2011-05-15 18:58:07 <BlueMatt> TD: there is a bitcoin NFC app?
1692 2011-05-15 18:58:08 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: wait you mean have the android app speak back to your bitcoind basically for POS stuff?
1693 2011-05-15 18:58:12 <lulzplzkthx> Point is, too much BTC is being introduced.
1694 2011-05-15 18:58:16 <mtrlt> lulzplzkthx: the network hashrate has gone up a lot
1695 2011-05-15 18:58:23 <mtrlt> lulzplzkthx: and the difficulty hasn't been adjusted yet
1696 2011-05-15 18:58:26 <roconnor> BlueMatt: oh okay. I was going to say that sounds insecure, but with a phone it isn't so bad.
1697 2011-05-15 18:58:27 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: pos or android to android stuff
1698 2011-05-15 18:58:39 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: nifty. hadn't heard about android@home
1699 2011-05-15 18:58:42 <BlueMatt> roconnor: its nfc so it only works within like 1 cm
1700 2011-05-15 18:58:44 <lulzplzkthx> mtrlt: And this happened last week too.
1701 2011-05-15 18:58:48 <lulzplzkthx> If this continues to happen, we have an issue.
1702 2011-05-15 18:58:51 <jrmithdobbs> been busy and haven't been paying attention to what came out of io
1703 2011-05-15 18:58:52 <lulzplzkthx> Or two weeks ago, whenever it was.
1704 2011-05-15 18:58:52 <mtrlt> lulzplzkthx: how so?
1705 2011-05-15 18:59:03 <TD> BlueMatt: no, but once there's an android bitcoin app it's easy to add nfc
1706 2011-05-15 18:59:06 <lulzplzkthx> mtrlt: It will continue to be flooded, and the fixes will be fixed too late, and quickly overridden.
1707 2011-05-15 18:59:08 <roconnor> BlueMatt: 1cm is too far for security
1708 2011-05-15 18:59:09 <TD> i experimented with the apis a bit
1709 2011-05-15 18:59:15 <lulzplzkthx> Meaning the money will be distributed quicker than expected.
1710 2011-05-15 18:59:18 <roconnor> BlueMatt: have you ever been on the metro :D
1711 2011-05-15 18:59:26 <lulzplzkthx> When was the first block generated?
1712 2011-05-15 18:59:31 <BlueMatt> roconnor: you probably need to tap "yes" before it sends
1713 2011-05-15 18:59:36 <BlueMatt> TD: so, you want to talk to some of your android colleagues to write it?
1714 2011-05-15 18:59:39 <jrmithdobbs> TD: a full android bitcoin app isn't really doable so long as you need tho whole block chain :(
1715 2011-05-15 18:59:40 <mtrlt> lulzplzkthx: umm what fixes
1716 2011-05-15 18:59:44 <roconnor> BlueMatt: ya, that's why if it is a phone it is fine.
1717 2011-05-15 18:59:49 <lulzplzkthx> mtrlt: difficulty fixes
1718 2011-05-15 18:59:59 <roconnor> BlueMatt: rumour has it for security you need at least a display and one button
1719 2011-05-15 19:00:01 <TD> i'm writing bitcoinj exactly to make that possible (a self contained android bitcoin app)
1720 2011-05-15 19:00:03 <lulzplzkthx> When was the first block generated?
1721 2011-05-15 19:00:04 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: you dont need full blockchain
1722 2011-05-15 19:00:07 <mtrlt> lulzplzkthx: they come faster if there is a lot of hashpower
1723 2011-05-15 19:00:07 <roconnor> BlueMatt: which a phone more than qualifies for
1724 2011-05-15 19:00:08 <TD> it's feasible with the 'client mode'
1725 2011-05-15 19:00:13 <lulzplzkthx> mtrlt: I know that.
1726 2011-05-15 19:00:15 <mtrlt> lulzplzkthx: i still don't see the problem :/
1727 2011-05-15 19:00:20 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: you need full block chain or a wallet sync mechanism
1728 2011-05-15 19:00:21 <lulzplzkthx> Regardless, the money is being distributed quicker than was expected.
1729 2011-05-15 19:00:21 <roconnor> BlueMatt: but an atm card does not :/
1730 2011-05-15 19:00:34 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: no you just need to get new blocks, you dont have to store them past a certain age
1731 2011-05-15 19:00:34 <Diablo-D3> <GeorgeTakei> "Birthers" quiet but "Deathers" say Bin Laden still alive.  Next: "Undeathers" who claim Bin Laden is an undocumented, zombie terrorist.
1732 2011-05-15 19:00:42 <BlueMatt> roconnor: ah, yes dont do it on an atm card
1733 2011-05-15 19:00:45 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: is that walletdump (or whatever you're calling it) rpc call in git yet?
1734 2011-05-15 19:00:47 <lulzplzkthx> Okay, hold on.
1735 2011-05-15 19:01:16 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: lol
1736 2011-05-15 19:01:16 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: o ok, so there's just no implementations that actually do it yet.
1737 2011-05-15 19:01:19 <mtrlt> lulzplzkthx: but it's not _that_ much faster
1738 2011-05-15 19:01:30 <mtrlt> lulzplzkthx: it's not like 5x faster than it should be
1739 2011-05-15 19:01:36 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: nope, not yet but as TD points out, it shouldnt be too hard
1740 2011-05-15 19:01:42 <TD> bitcoinj does it already
1741 2011-05-15 19:01:45 <TD> there is an android app that uses it
1742 2011-05-15 19:02:00 <BlueMatt> oh full blockchain, no that is done
1743 2011-05-15 19:02:02 <TD> https://market.android.com/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet&feature=search_result
1744 2011-05-15 19:02:06 <BlueMatt> I thought you were on about nfc
1745 2011-05-15 19:02:07 <jrmithdobbs> nifty. we need pos goodness to get this off the ground for things besides speculation :(
1746 2011-05-15 19:02:14 <TD> ah sorry. right, nobody did NFC support yet
1747 2011-05-15 19:02:23 <TD> it's like, an afternoons work though once you can do mobile payments nicely
1748 2011-05-15 19:02:34 <Optimo> jrmithdobbs: the middleman giftcard thing is kinda cool
1749 2011-05-15 19:02:36 <TD> you can set the NFC tag in the phone to hold arbitrary data, like a URL
1750 2011-05-15 19:02:41 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: link?
1751 2011-05-15 19:02:44 <TD> so you'd set it to be bitcoin:<address>
1752 2011-05-15 19:02:47 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: oh, now that I highly disagree with...what about newegg/thinkgeek/etc kind of thing? is that not 100% ideal for bitcoin...you can wait for confirmations before shipping with not real disadvantage
1753 2011-05-15 19:02:49 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: i want to spend btc DIRECTLY at pos though
1754 2011-05-15 19:02:49 <TD> and maybe a ?value= param
1755 2011-05-15 19:02:55 <TD> then handle the bitcoin url intent
1756 2011-05-15 19:02:58 <Optimo> yeah not quite yet
1757 2011-05-15 19:03:12 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: well yes, that will be nifty too, but long term POS really is needed
1758 2011-05-15 19:03:21 <Optimo> but one smart app could turn btc into paypal money in a jiff
1759 2011-05-15 19:03:33 <Optimo> and maybe a visa backed by as paypal?
1760 2011-05-15 19:03:37 <jrmithdobbs> fuck that
1761 2011-05-15 19:03:41 <jrmithdobbs> fuck paypal
1762 2011-05-15 19:03:42 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r75f6dc2 / test/blockchain.js : Simplified block chain test cases. - http://bit.ly/mvz9Vm
1763 2011-05-15 19:03:51 <Optimo> fuck em all
1764 2011-05-15 19:03:57 <Optimo> let's make this shit happen
1765 2011-05-15 19:04:01 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: Im sorry, but I can never see bitcoin being a currency which replaces irl transactions, IMHO it is ideal to be the online currency of choice as anyone from africa to Antarctica can pay with it for digital goods
1766 2011-05-15 19:04:02 <TD> justmoon: morning :)
1767 2011-05-15 19:04:03 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: whole point of bitcoin is to not have a company that can randomly freeze your accounts for no goddamned reason
1768 2011-05-15 19:04:06 <lulzplzkthx> mtrlt: 5 * (2 * 12 * 30 * 24 * 6 ) = 5,184,000. That is from the first block until 2 years later. The actual amount was 5,100,000. So far so good.
1769 2011-05-15 19:04:07 <justmoon> TD: :D
1770 2011-05-15 19:04:11 sacarlson has joined
1771 2011-05-15 19:04:22 <BlueMatt> justmoon: I hear you've been very busy
1772 2011-05-15 19:04:22 <Optimo> jrmithdobbs: I'm well on your side
1773 2011-05-15 19:04:29 <lulzplzkthx> Since the, there is now 6,209,050.
1774 2011-05-15 19:04:35 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: ;P
1775 2011-05-15 19:04:43 jmorton_ has joined
1776 2011-05-15 19:04:51 <TD> justmoon: that's an interesting test framework you've got there
1777 2011-05-15 19:04:55 <Optimo> and I do see it replacing hard cash in parts of the world
1778 2011-05-15 19:04:58 <justmoon> BlueMatt: lol, I'm actually not even sure what you're referring to (radio ad, weusecoins updates, bitcoinjs progress)
1779 2011-05-15 19:05:04 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: had a charity drive at one point get frozen. hate those fuckers.
1780 2011-05-15 19:05:10 <BlueMatt> justmoon: thats my point
1781 2011-05-15 19:05:14 <lulzplzkthx> That's 20% of what was supposed to be created in two years, created in 4 months. 4 * 5 == 20. That's 4 months ahead of schedule in 2 years if things continue at this rate.
1782 2011-05-15 19:05:15 <Optimo> yeah I had problems too
1783 2011-05-15 19:05:19 <jrmithdobbs> apparently getting too much money is considered fraud, lol
1784 2011-05-15 19:05:21 <lulzplzkthx> 4 months is quite a bit.
1785 2011-05-15 19:05:34 <justmoon> BlueMatt: takin' what they givin' cause we workin' for a livin'
1786 2011-05-15 19:05:35 <lulzplzkthx> And the growth seems to be exponential, so the rate will increase.
1787 2011-05-15 19:05:47 <Optimo> I'm here to recruit appstore-rejectees to come to cydia ;p
1788 2011-05-15 19:05:49 <BlueMatt> justmoon: lol
1789 2011-05-15 19:06:23 <justmoon> TD: I'm still learning it though, this is coming over from the ruby world, not really my background
1790 2011-05-15 19:06:35 <Optimo> I need a clone of myself just to consider doing mining rigs
1791 2011-05-15 19:06:36 <roconnor> when is the first drop in mining rewards?
1792 2011-05-15 19:06:38 <TD> the english sentences to describe what is being tested is interesting
1793 2011-05-15 19:07:09 <TD> lulzplzkthx: it's possible for bitcoin to run ahead of schedule if mining power is always rising
1794 2011-05-15 19:07:13 <TD> lulzplzkthx: which currently it is
1795 2011-05-15 19:07:19 <TD> lulzplzkthx: it's not a big concern, imo
1796 2011-05-15 19:07:22 FabianB_ has joined
1797 2011-05-15 19:07:27 <justmoon> TD: I want to compress the entire chain description down into one JSON object and that would be my topic for the test case - should be in there with the next commit
1798 2011-05-15 19:07:57 <TD> justmoon: i'm gonna change how the re-org handling and wallet works in my next bitcoinj commit, btw
1799 2011-05-15 19:08:12 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1800 2011-05-15 19:08:18 <justmoon> TD: awesome, I'll be watching for that!
1801 2011-05-15 19:08:29 <TD> ..... because the current way isn't quite right :-)
1802 2011-05-15 19:08:54 davex__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1803 2011-05-15 19:08:55 <BlueMatt> still doing re-org, my god that is hard to get right
1804 2011-05-15 19:09:10 <TD> BlueMatt: you're doing an implementation as well ?
1805 2011-05-15 19:09:16 <BlueMatt> no
1806 2011-05-15 19:09:23 <TD> oh, you mean i'm still doing it
1807 2011-05-15 19:09:29 <BlueMatt> just commenting about the general, how much work you are putting into reorg
1808 2011-05-15 19:09:49 <TD> it's a pain in the ass. satoshis code actually ignores some edge cases that i want to get right
1809 2011-05-15 19:09:58 <justmoon> what's killing me is that I have to worry about network messages coming in while the reorg is in progress
1810 2011-05-15 19:10:02 <TD> but i figure we only have to go through this once
1811 2011-05-15 19:10:07 <TD> and then it's done
1812 2011-05-15 19:10:08 <BlueMatt> Im working on wallet crypto, pretty much done, but just have to get around to reading a ton of undocumented openssl crap to get it right
1813 2011-05-15 19:10:38 <TD> justmoon: why? can't you just block the network threads whilst it's in progress?
1814 2011-05-15 19:10:48 <roconnor> TD: do you check that the extranonce script has the difficulty in it?
1815 2011-05-15 19:11:07 <TD> roconnor: no. don't check the coinbase tx contents at all, actually
1816 2011-05-15 19:11:10 <TD> roconnor: why?
1817 2011-05-15 19:11:18 <roconnor> I don't either
1818 2011-05-15 19:11:25 <roconnor> I want to make sure I'm doing this right
1819 2011-05-15 19:11:35 <justmoon> TD: Node.js -> no threads - what you have to do is catch the calls that are coming in and process them later
1820 2011-05-15 19:12:03 <TD> if there are no threads then surely you won't process any messages until your re-org function has returned back to the message loop?
1821 2011-05-15 19:12:12 <TD> i guess i need to read up on how node.js works
1822 2011-05-15 19:12:52 <justmoon> TD: any asynchronous function returns back to the loop
1823 2011-05-15 19:13:34 <TD> but does your re-org have to be asynchronous?
1824 2011-05-15 19:13:47 <justmoon> TD: yes, database access is asynchronous
1825 2011-05-15 19:13:50 <TD> ah
1826 2011-05-15 19:14:01 <TD> yeah
1827 2011-05-15 19:14:22 <TD> i am skeptical about the blurb on the node.js homepage. google uses a mix of async/event driven style and threaded style.
1828 2011-05-15 19:14:47 <TD> the event driven ones aren't really easier to understand
1829 2011-05-15 19:15:02 davex__ has joined
1830 2011-05-15 19:15:26 <forrestv> 'Magic value indicating message origin network, and used to seek to next message when stream state is unknown' from 'Protocol specification' - in what case is the stream state unknown? ... network uses reliable TCP transport
1831 2011-05-15 19:15:38 <TD> of course you haven't experienced true pain until you've worked with servers that are both callback/event driven AND multi-threaded simultaneously.
1832 2011-05-15 19:15:41 <roconnor> sipa, TD: is a transaction with 0 inputs and 0 outputs legal?
1833 2011-05-15 19:16:47 <TD> roconnor: no
1834 2011-05-15 19:17:01 <TD> see the first line in CTransaction::CheckTransaction
1835 2011-05-15 19:17:16 <TD> forrestv: almost certainly a hacky workaround for a bug in the official client that satoshi could not find
1836 2011-05-15 19:17:26 <TD> forrestv: i've observed nodes in the wild insert junk between messages occasionally
1837 2011-05-15 19:17:45 <TD> forrestv: so the seeking is unfortunately required. quirk of the reference implementation
1838 2011-05-15 19:18:02 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1839 2011-05-15 19:18:06 mtrlt_ has joined
1840 2011-05-15 19:18:38 <forrestv> ah, so i can't just ignore that bit
1841 2011-05-15 19:18:53 <TD> no. i did and it bit me on the ass :-) so learn from my mistakes
1842 2011-05-15 19:19:18 <roconnor> TD: and the each output has to have a non-zero value?
1843 2011-05-15 19:19:28 skeledrew has joined
1844 2011-05-15 19:19:31 <TD> roconnor: it's allowed to have zero value
1845 2011-05-15 19:19:36 <roconnor> oh
1846 2011-05-15 19:19:38 <roconnor> ok
1847 2011-05-15 19:19:47 <roconnor> interesting
1848 2011-05-15 19:19:54 <TD> AFAICT such an outputs only use is to spam the block chain with file uploads :-) but we might find it useful in future
1849 2011-05-15 19:20:09 <TD> so i guess it's worth keeping that ability around in case we need it in future, as long as it's not abused too heavily
1850 2011-05-15 19:20:22 <roconnor> TD: as usefule as empty inputs or empty outputs in transactions?
1851 2011-05-15 19:20:58 <TD> hey, i didn't make the rules
1852 2011-05-15 19:21:08 <roconnor> :D
1853 2011-05-15 19:21:23 <roconnor> but at least you get to rationalize the rules.
1854 2011-05-15 19:21:30 Xer is now known as Xerafk
1855 2011-05-15 19:21:40 <TD> justmoon: btw, are you using the closure compiler? considered using it if not ?
1856 2011-05-15 19:21:40 <justmoon> TD: you can also use zero outputs if you want to pay just a fee with no transaction - could be useful as the basis for a trust system where you burn bitcoins as fees in order to build proof-of-expenditure for an identity
1857 2011-05-15 19:22:20 <TD> yeah i'm not really a fan of burning coins, seeing as how there are a finite number ..... it'd suck to run short one day :)
1858 2011-05-15 19:22:20 <justmoon> TD: current state of the art compiler is UglifyJS, used by jQuery & Co - it's nice because it's JavaScript/Node.js, no extra dependencies
1859 2011-05-15 19:22:34 <justmoon> TD: they'd go to the miner, they wouldn't be lost coins
1860 2011-05-15 19:22:40 <TD> oh, that's true
1861 2011-05-15 19:23:07 <TD> haven't seen uglifyjs
1862 2011-05-15 19:23:18 <roconnor> justmoon: it'd be easier to use an empty list of outputs :D
1863 2011-05-15 19:23:39 <justmoon> roconnor: yeah, wasn't sure if that was possible tbh :)
1864 2011-05-15 19:23:49 <forrestv> TD, their value will just increase if there are less :p
1865 2011-05-15 19:23:55 <TD> i wonder how it compares
1866 2011-05-15 19:24:05 <TD> forrestv: well yeah, but you lose resolution. i'd rather have resolution.
1867 2011-05-15 19:24:45 sethsethseth__ has left ()
1868 2011-05-15 19:24:55 <TD> hmm, uglifyjs claims to beat jscompiler with only ~2000 lines of code?
1869 2011-05-15 19:25:06 <TD> ah, right ... no test suite
1870 2011-05-15 19:25:15 <justmoon> TD: lol
1871 2011-05-15 19:25:16 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1872 2011-05-15 19:25:26 * TD has a look inside
1873 2011-05-15 19:25:27 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1874 2011-05-15 19:25:50 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1875 2011-05-15 19:26:08 Myckel has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
1876 2011-05-15 19:28:51 <TD> yeah, i was thinking of jscompiler for its type checking rather than minification
1877 2011-05-15 19:28:59 <TD> obviously on a server you don't need compressed code :-)
1878 2011-05-15 19:29:26 <justmoon> oic
1879 2011-05-15 19:29:59 <justmoon> yeah, for server-side code I'm not planning to use any compiler/compressor
1880 2011-05-15 19:30:10 <justmoon> I thought you meant for bitcoinjs-gui bitcoinjs-lib
1881 2011-05-15 19:30:39 <TD> ok
1882 2011-05-15 19:31:57 <justmoon> but now I'm gonna compile some dinner and deploy to my stomach
1883 2011-05-15 19:32:25 <TD> enjoy
1884 2011-05-15 19:32:36 <justmoon> thx :)
1885 2011-05-15 19:33:17 <Optimo> mv bowels /dev/toilet
1886 2011-05-15 19:33:33 <Optimo> classy
1887 2011-05-15 19:33:34 <justmoon> Optimo: Error: socket in use
1888 2011-05-15 19:33:38 <Optimo> eww
1889 2011-05-15 19:33:40 zzop has joined
1890 2011-05-15 19:33:41 Marcel has joined
1891 2011-05-15 19:33:57 <zzop> My god, look at this. There's like 20x more people in here than late last year
1892 2011-05-15 19:34:21 <BlueMatt> zzop: you used to hang around in here last year?
1893 2011-05-15 19:34:30 <zzop> BlueMatt: Yep
1894 2011-05-15 19:34:38 <Optimo> II thikn I read that btc went up 500% versu USD since Feb this year..
1895 2011-05-15 19:34:50 <BlueMatt> sounds right
1896 2011-05-15 19:34:54 <zzop> Have been lurking on the forums since then, just haven't dipped into IRC in a while.
1897 2011-05-15 19:35:02 <zzop> I know, it's crazy
1898 2011-05-15 19:35:08 <BlueMatt> zzop: welcome to the fun :)
1899 2011-05-15 19:35:14 <BlueMatt> (welcome back)
1900 2011-05-15 19:35:17 <zzop> Thanks!
1901 2011-05-15 19:36:05 <zzop> This is really good news, seeing you all here.
1902 2011-05-15 19:36:16 <zzop> I guess this is really going to be something.
1903 2011-05-15 19:36:44 <BlueMatt> I sure hope so, still fighting for merchants though
1904 2011-05-15 19:36:59 <BlueMatt> also, check out #bitcoin-otc and #bitcoin (over-the-couter trading and discussion)
1905 2011-05-15 19:37:01 <BlueMatt> more active there
1906 2011-05-15 19:37:08 <Optimo> I bet...
1907 2011-05-15 19:37:30 <zzop> I was just over there, to both of them :)
1908 2011-05-15 19:37:37 <zzop> Merchants...
1909 2011-05-15 19:37:49 <Optimo> I will be idling here waiting for iphone devs
1910 2011-05-15 19:37:53 <zzop> I was just thinking about that. To make this really work, there needs to be some major bootstrap mechanism.
1911 2011-05-15 19:38:17 <TD> Optimo: wasn't there a guy on the forum who made something bitcoin related that got bounced?
1912 2011-05-15 19:38:24 <Optimo> yeah I posted there
1913 2011-05-15 19:38:25 * TD doesn't know why anyone would bother doing bitcoin related development for iOS
1914 2011-05-15 19:38:28 <TD> ah ok
1915 2011-05-15 19:38:43 <Optimo> well appstore rejects it for typical reasons
1916 2011-05-15 19:38:49 <BlueMatt> yea, thats all we really need now...we have good software devs and a bunch of cool projects coming out, but merchants still seem to be hard to find
1917 2011-05-15 19:38:49 <TD> i think webcoin is the way to go for iphones
1918 2011-05-15 19:38:51 <Optimo> but Cydia is no slouch
1919 2011-05-15 19:38:53 <zzop> Did any of you hear the recent This American Life about how money is created?
1920 2011-05-15 19:39:09 <BlueMatt> also, it could help keep some of the bitcoin value down by keeping btc liquid
1921 2011-05-15 19:39:10 <zzop> It got me thinking... About Brazil's past inflation problem, and how a virtual currency was employed there to stabilize it.
1922 2011-05-15 19:39:14 <Optimo> TD, ultimately that will probably win-out for unjailbroken phones yeah
1923 2011-05-15 19:39:17 zq has quit (!4fa03357@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.160.51.87|Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1924 2011-05-15 19:39:24 <TD> BlueMatt: perhaps because there's not much good support for merchants
1925 2011-05-15 19:39:29 <zzop> Maybe Bitcoin could be used in the same way, for some similar situation.
1926 2011-05-15 19:39:31 <BlueMatt> TD: thats true too
1927 2011-05-15 19:39:52 <Optimo> I saw Steve Gibson talking about this on the TwiT episode. that was all I needed to hear
1928 2011-05-15 19:40:12 <BlueMatt> Optimo: yea, I got interested because of sec now as well
1929 2011-05-15 19:40:28 <BlueMatt> well sec now, not twit
1930 2011-05-15 19:40:37 <BlueMatt> sec now having been several months ago
1931 2011-05-15 19:40:44 <Optimo> if GRC says 'bulletproof' I am going with him
1932 2011-05-15 19:40:52 <BlueMatt> yep
1933 2011-05-15 19:41:43 <TD> the biggest hit items right now are probably the client mode work gavin signed himself up for :) and improving support for merchants
1934 2011-05-15 19:41:56 <TD> weusecoins has a mining guide but not a merchants guide. that says everything about the community focus right now.
1935 2011-05-15 19:41:59 TheKid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1936 2011-05-15 19:41:59 <Optimo> grassroots
1937 2011-05-15 19:42:05 <Optimo> need to hit the streets
1938 2011-05-15 19:42:30 <BlueMatt> TD: yep, Id like to see a good paypal clone which supports bitcoin, just one and IMHO we would be golden
1939 2011-05-15 19:42:46 <BlueMatt> if it supports bitcoin + usd via pp or whatever, we could get real traction IMHO
1940 2011-05-15 19:43:02 <TD> well, for now even just some drop-in JavaScript and serverside libraries that talk via RPC would be a good start
1941 2011-05-15 19:43:20 <TD> the setup process for doing the "create an address, wait for it to arrive" dance isn't exactly hard but it's more effort than many are willing to invest
1942 2011-05-15 19:43:31 <TD> i guess mybitcoin is the paypal clone idea
1943 2011-05-15 19:43:44 <TD> but it means you have to trust mybitcoin, which is amongst other things registered in the west indies :)
1944 2011-05-15 19:44:21 <BlueMatt> plus mybitcoin hasnt really responded to anything in the past x weeks so...
1945 2011-05-15 19:44:25 <TD> right
1946 2011-05-15 19:44:33 <BlueMatt> if, say, mtgox got payments to be really easy, my god...
1947 2011-05-15 19:44:36 <TD> bitcoin lacks trusted institutions. so for now systems that don't require them are a good thig.
1948 2011-05-15 19:44:39 glassresistor has joined
1949 2011-05-15 19:44:52 <TD> well, maybe ClearWing is a trusted institution :)
1950 2011-05-15 19:45:01 <BlueMatt> mtgox is very well trusted, or gavin's company
1951 2011-05-15 19:45:04 <TD> right
1952 2011-05-15 19:45:05 MartianW has quit (Quit: Bye all.)
1953 2011-05-15 19:45:08 <BlueMatt> or jgarzik via xf2
1954 2011-05-15 19:45:14 <TD> the community is building some, slowly. but it's still early days.
1955 2011-05-15 19:45:21 <BlueMatt> or google checkout ;)
1956 2011-05-15 19:45:29 <TD> raah :)
1957 2011-05-15 19:45:40 <TD> checkout is constrained by the same rules as paypal, unfortunately
1958 2011-05-15 19:45:58 <BlueMatt> yea no, I dont expect checkout to go btc for a long time (if ever)
1959 2011-05-15 19:46:18 <TD> i looked at what it'd take to remove the prohibition on currency exchange but it isn't going to happen
1960 2011-05-15 19:46:27 <zzop> What is Gavin's company?
1961 2011-05-15 19:46:36 <TD> zzop: ClearWing  (freebitcoins + clearcoin)
1962 2011-05-15 19:46:41 snun23 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1963 2011-05-15 19:46:43 <BlueMatt> oh thats what its called
1964 2011-05-15 19:47:31 <BlueMatt> TD: Im sure google's legal dpt can figure out a way to accept btc
1965 2011-05-15 19:47:33 Xerafk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1966 2011-05-15 19:47:43 <TD> it's not a legal issue. the rules are imposed by the credit card industry itself.
1967 2011-05-15 19:47:54 <lupine_85> dear me, this wire protocol is evil
1968 2011-05-15 19:47:58 <BlueMatt> oh, well still Im sure they could figure it out somehow
1969 2011-05-15 19:47:59 <Diablo-D3> TD: btw, some rules ARE codified into law
1970 2011-05-15 19:48:07 <zzop> Why was a transaction fee added to Bitcoin ?!
1971 2011-05-15 19:48:23 <TD> well, alright, it's not only a legal issue :)
1972 2011-05-15 19:48:27 <zzop> Sorry, that's probably a FAQ :)
1973 2011-05-15 19:48:27 * lupine_85 is writing a parser & state machine for it atm
1974 2011-05-15 19:48:35 <TD> zzop: fees have always been there
1975 2011-05-15 19:48:40 <BlueMatt> zzop: there has always been fees
1976 2011-05-15 19:48:44 <lupine_85> whoever has been populating the bitcoin protocol page in the wiki has my thanks :)
1977 2011-05-15 19:48:53 <BlueMatt> zzop: for miners when payout drops
1978 2011-05-15 19:48:56 galaxyAbstractor has joined
1979 2011-05-15 19:48:57 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
1980 2011-05-15 19:49:10 <zzop> Huh. Had no idea.
1981 2011-05-15 19:49:20 <TD> lupine_85: i you think the wire protocol is complicated, i pity your encounter with the rest of the system  :)
1982 2011-05-15 19:49:23 <zzop> I guess that makes sense.
1983 2011-05-15 19:49:44 <TD> BlueMatt: the problem (one problem) is that payment processors forbid cash advances and currency exchange is considered to be a cash advance
1984 2011-05-15 19:49:47 <lupine_85> I don't think it's  complicated, I just think it has some unnecessary - and evil - features
1985 2011-05-15 19:50:02 <TD> BlueMatt: ie, a free loan that undercuts the banks own rates.
1986 2011-05-15 19:50:14 <lupine_85> like the custom int types, for instance
1987 2011-05-15 19:50:15 MartianW has joined
1988 2011-05-15 19:50:19 <TD> i'm not sure how to get around that one. it's pretty fundamental to combining online payments with credit.
1989 2011-05-15 19:50:23 MartianW has quit (Changing host)
1990 2011-05-15 19:50:23 MartianW has joined
1991 2011-05-15 19:50:24 <BlueMatt> TD: ah, well I was saying google checkout simply accepts btc, not that it sells btc
1992 2011-05-15 19:50:33 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1993 2011-05-15 19:50:40 <TD> yeah, that's a fair bit harder :-)
1994 2011-05-15 19:50:43 warpi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1995 2011-05-15 19:50:43 <lupine_85> pascal vs. C strings is obiously a preference thing, but when the preceding int is itself a variable-length field... well. evil.
1996 2011-05-15 19:50:49 <BlueMatt> yea, no I dont doubt that in the slightest
1997 2011-05-15 19:51:15 <BlueMatt> I was just dreaming
1998 2011-05-15 19:51:36 <TD> it's too early anyway
1999 2011-05-15 19:51:45 <BlueMatt> yea no, absolutely
2000 2011-05-15 19:51:46 <TD> bitcoin is already overheating. lots of speculation and not enough real trade
2001 2011-05-15 19:52:00 <TD> after the software gets a lot better it'd make more sense to try and get extra attention
2002 2011-05-15 19:52:06 <BlueMatt> yea, but a system could be made which sells on mtgox instantly
2003 2011-05-15 19:52:22 * TD saw too many projects get attention too fast, fail to scale up and become sidelined
2004 2011-05-15 19:52:27 <lupine_85> I've dealt with worse, I guess
2005 2011-05-15 19:52:33 <BlueMatt> IMHO the only way to get it to cool off a bit is to get merchants interested
2006 2011-05-15 19:52:39 <TD> lupine_85: well, i prefer it to a lot of text based protocols
2007 2011-05-15 19:52:41 <lupine_85> some of the 'protocols' we use at work are hideously evil
2008 2011-05-15 19:52:45 <BlueMatt> make the investors a smaller % of the people
2009 2011-05-15 19:52:48 <forrestv> 'When a node receives an incoming connection, it will immediately advertise its version.' - why when i 'telnet 127.0.0.1 8333' does nothing happen?
2010 2011-05-15 19:52:55 <TD> forrestv: it's out of date. that was changed.
2011 2011-05-15 19:53:04 <lupine_85> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :p
2012 2011-05-15 19:53:11 <forrestv> so the connector does the 'version' message first?
2013 2011-05-15 19:53:18 <BlueMatt> yea
2014 2011-05-15 19:53:21 <TD> forrestv: yeah. it doesn't hurt.
2015 2011-05-15 19:53:23 <lupine_85> eh, that's fine
2016 2011-05-15 19:53:38 <lupine_85> are there clients out there that'll sit forever ?
2017 2011-05-15 19:53:47 <lupine_85> (waiting for the server to advertise)
2018 2011-05-15 19:54:04 <TD> not much software talks the p2p protocol directly. most people use rpc
2019 2011-05-15 19:54:13 <TD> i had to change bitcoinj a bit after that change because it did indeed wait
2020 2011-05-15 19:54:29 <lupine_85> aye, I'm writing something that needs to talk the p2p protocol
2021 2011-05-15 19:54:31 <zzop> Does Bitcoin still bootstrap off of IRC?
2022 2011-05-15 19:54:34 <zzop> The client, I mean
2023 2011-05-15 19:54:36 <lupine_85> yep
2024 2011-05-15 19:54:43 <BlueMatt> what does talk the p2p protocol, bitcoin-mainline and bitcoinj
2025 2011-05-15 19:54:46 <BlueMatt> what else
2026 2011-05-15 19:54:53 <zzop> Is that just to get the initial list of peers?
2027 2011-05-15 19:54:54 <TD> a bunch of custom scripts people have
2028 2011-05-15 19:54:55 <BlueMatt> zzop: irc + dns seeding + static programmed in nodes
2029 2011-05-15 19:54:59 <BlueMatt> zzop: yea
2030 2011-05-15 19:55:01 <TD> artforz has some custom stuff that talks it
2031 2011-05-15 19:55:07 <BlueMatt> oh, well thats art
2032 2011-05-15 19:55:13 Moonies has joined
2033 2011-05-15 19:55:13 <TD> there's bitdollar
2034 2011-05-15 19:55:26 <BlueMatt> has anyone used bitdollar?
2035 2011-05-15 19:55:34 TheKid has joined
2036 2011-05-15 19:55:36 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
2037 2011-05-15 19:55:36 TheKid has joined
2038 2011-05-15 19:55:38 <lupine_85> I'll have a complete-ish protocol library sometime this week, hopefully
2039 2011-05-15 19:55:42 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2040 2011-05-15 19:55:50 <TD> no
2041 2011-05-15 19:55:52 <TD> i looked at the code
2042 2011-05-15 19:55:56 <TD> the community seems pretty dead though
2043 2011-05-15 19:56:03 <TD> lupine_85: what are you writing it in?
2044 2011-05-15 19:56:47 <lupine_85> evented ruby
2045 2011-05-15 19:56:53 <lupine_85> everyone's favourite ;)
2046 2011-05-15 19:56:54 Speeder has joined
2047 2011-05-15 19:57:00 <Speeder> how we prevent a network split?
2048 2011-05-15 19:57:20 <Speeder> I've read that if several nodes agree to different rules (like, mint 100 BTC instead of 50) the network can get splitted
2049 2011-05-15 19:57:21 <zzop> Is it possible to fork bitcoin and create an entirely alternative currency stream? :)
2050 2011-05-15 19:57:22 <lupine_85> (I did find another bitcoin protocol library already, but it's massively unsuited for what I want)
2051 2011-05-15 19:57:40 <TD> lupine_85: what's your end goal ?
2052 2011-05-15 19:57:42 <Speeder> I find that kinda worring.
2053 2011-05-15 19:57:50 <BlueMatt> zzop: yea, some people have done that
2054 2011-05-15 19:57:58 <lupine_85> zzop, if you just use a different network identifier, you get to leverage all the existing code, I guess :)
2055 2011-05-15 19:58:01 <zzop> BlueMatt: Like who? What are the name of the projects?
2056 2011-05-15 19:58:04 <BlueMatt> Speeder: yea, but the split would only consist of those who install alternate software
2057 2011-05-15 19:58:07 <zzop> lupine_85: How interesting. :-)
2058 2011-05-15 19:58:09 <gavinandresen> Speeder:  that's like asking "how do we prevent US states from seceding from the nation?"
2059 2011-05-15 19:58:19 <lupine_85> (at the moment, there's 'testnet' and 'main')
2060 2011-05-15 19:58:27 <Diablo-D3> easy
2061 2011-05-15 19:58:32 <Diablo-D3> you put it in the constitution that its illegal
2062 2011-05-15 19:58:34 <BlueMatt> zzop: I think there was one called leafcoin, no some plant part-coin
2063 2011-05-15 19:58:34 <lupine_85> no reason why someone couldn't arbitarily start a block chain based on 'my-cool-network'
2064 2011-05-15 19:58:34 <Diablo-D3> tada!
2065 2011-05-15 19:58:51 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: and btw, its "from the union"
2066 2011-05-15 19:59:05 <lupine_85> TD, a client that can be used like bitcoind, mybitcoin or the wxWidgets bitcoin client
2067 2011-05-15 19:59:17 <lupine_85> meh, "client" isn't the appropriate term really. "node" ?
2068 2011-05-15 19:59:29 pigeons has joined
2069 2011-05-15 19:59:34 <Diablo-D3> well, not all clients may be nodes
2070 2011-05-15 19:59:35 <lupine_85> it's just an alternative node implementation that'll hopefully become popular
2071 2011-05-15 19:59:39 <lupine_85> aye, this client is a node
2072 2011-05-15 20:00:04 * roconnor reworked his coinbase data types
2073 2011-05-15 20:00:10 <Nesetalis> zzop, there is Namecoin, weeds, and a few others.
2074 2011-05-15 20:00:11 <zzop> The wxWidgets bitcoin client is really CPU-heavy on the mac (not mining, just using)... Hope we get a sweet native one sometime
2075 2011-05-15 20:00:57 <BlueMatt> oh weeds, thats what its called
2076 2011-05-15 20:00:59 <lupine_85> the idea is you'll be able to run it on a desktop as a standalone HTTP or GTK/KDE/wx/whatever app, or on the network as a multi-user webapp
2077 2011-05-15 20:01:05 sethsethseth___ has joined
2078 2011-05-15 20:01:11 sethsethseth___ is now known as sethsethseth
2079 2011-05-15 20:01:12 <BlueMatt> zzop: its cpu heavy on all platforms because of tx checking
2080 2011-05-15 20:01:33 <lupine_85> it'll support the JSON-RPC interface, and maybe include a pool (generating blocks isn't something I'm look at *at all* right now))
2081 2011-05-15 20:01:40 glassresistor has quit (Quit: leaving)
2082 2011-05-15 20:01:43 <Nesetalis> O.o it never even dips in to 01% CPU usage for me, BlueMatt
2083 2011-05-15 20:02:04 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2084 2011-05-15 20:02:13 <BlueMatt> Nesetalis: it depends on your # of connections
2085 2011-05-15 20:02:15 <lupine_85> address book and exchange integration, plus support for paying to JID-alike identifiers
2086 2011-05-15 20:02:21 <lupine_85> whatever else I can think of to make it better :p
2087 2011-05-15 20:02:40 <Nesetalis> ah, ive got 8 connections :p probably because i dont have any ports forwarded
2088 2011-05-15 20:02:54 <BlueMatt> Nesetalis: try the spiffy UPnP feature ;)
2089 2011-05-15 20:03:05 <lupine_85> bleh, uPNP
2090 2011-05-15 20:03:05 <Nesetalis> its checked
2091 2011-05-15 20:03:09 <lupine_85> I guess I'll have to support that too :D
2092 2011-05-15 20:03:10 sethsethseth_ has joined
2093 2011-05-15 20:03:18 <BlueMatt> is it on on your router?
2094 2011-05-15 20:03:32 <Nesetalis> i'm behind two firewalls :p its a pain in the ass
2095 2011-05-15 20:03:50 <BlueMatt> ah, well that would be a pita
2096 2011-05-15 20:04:19 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2097 2011-05-15 20:04:27 <Nesetalis> should talk to my partners about setting up IPv6 internally and do away with the double nat
2098 2011-05-15 20:04:40 <lupine_85> IPv6 ftw
2099 2011-05-15 20:04:58 mosimo has joined
2100 2011-05-15 20:05:09 <Nesetalis> sadly verizon doesnt yet support IPv6 over FiOS... though we have a IPv6 proxy through some one else.
2101 2011-05-15 20:05:26 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2102 2011-05-15 20:05:33 Nicksasa has joined
2103 2011-05-15 20:05:35 <BlueMatt> he tunnelbroker ftw
2104 2011-05-15 20:06:07 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2105 2011-05-15 20:06:07 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2106 2011-05-15 20:06:17 Nick__ has joined
2107 2011-05-15 20:06:24 <Diablo-D3> I wonder why people keep fucking using tunnel brokers
2108 2011-05-15 20:06:34 citiz3n has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2109 2011-05-15 20:06:37 <Diablo-D3> the internet itself routes anycast ipv6 tunnels
2110 2011-05-15 20:06:49 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2111 2011-05-15 20:07:20 <BlueMatt> because with tunnelbroker I get a static /48
2112 2011-05-15 20:07:31 neoeinstein_ has joined
2113 2011-05-15 20:07:32 <Nesetalis> exactly
2114 2011-05-15 20:07:34 <BlueMatt> even with my dynamic change-every-24h ip
2115 2011-05-15 20:07:43 <Diablo-D3> who the fuck changes ips every 24 hours
2116 2011-05-15 20:07:46 <Diablo-D3> I keep mine for months
2117 2011-05-15 20:07:50 <BlueMatt> deutsche telekom
2118 2011-05-15 20:07:52 <BlueMatt> its shit
2119 2011-05-15 20:07:56 <Diablo-D3> douche telekom you mean
2120 2011-05-15 20:07:57 <Diablo-D3> dohohohoh
2121 2011-05-15 20:07:58 sethsethseth_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2122 2011-05-15 20:08:09 <BlueMatt> yea no, they really, really suck
2123 2011-05-15 20:08:12 neoeinstein has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2124 2011-05-15 20:08:25 <Diablo-D3> douchebag telekom?
2125 2011-05-15 20:08:33 pigeons has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2126 2011-05-15 20:08:33 <BlueMatt> absolutely
2127 2011-05-15 20:08:39 <Diablo-D3> bag of dongs telekom?
2128 2011-05-15 20:08:40 sethsethseth_ has joined
2129 2011-05-15 20:08:46 <BlueMatt> pretty much
2130 2011-05-15 20:08:53 jivvz has joined
2131 2011-05-15 20:09:30 <Nesetalis> -sets up for sale a bag of dicks for 4BTC- :D fresh dicks
2132 2011-05-15 20:09:43 <Nesetalis> -goes back to python- :p
2133 2011-05-15 20:09:46 <BlueMatt> only 4 BTC? high risk for just 4
2134 2011-05-15 20:09:55 <BlueMatt> whole getting arrested thing
2135 2011-05-15 20:10:01 <Nesetalis> oh no no, i use digital dicks.
2136 2011-05-15 20:10:10 <Nesetalis> completely anonymous.
2137 2011-05-15 20:10:16 <BlueMatt> lol
2138 2011-05-15 20:10:18 <Nesetalis> its like a gloryhole for your computer.
2139 2011-05-15 20:14:19 <lupine_85> oh, and while I'm complaining, the format for netaddr is *evil*++
2140 2011-05-15 20:15:43 mtrlt has joined
2141 2011-05-15 20:16:52 mtrlt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2142 2011-05-15 20:17:11 <edcba> ok let's gov censure with cc processors, search engines, dns and let's use our own systems
2143 2011-05-15 20:18:30 <Nesetalis> what, edcba?
2144 2011-05-15 20:19:21 Nick__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2145 2011-05-15 20:19:42 <zzop> What is going on here re: dicks? :)
2146 2011-05-15 20:20:19 edward has joined
2147 2011-05-15 20:21:05 prax_ has joined
2148 2011-05-15 20:21:33 <BlueMatt> zzop: welcome to irc, not a pussy in sight
2149 2011-05-15 20:21:34 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2150 2011-05-15 20:21:34 TheKid has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2151 2011-05-15 20:21:34 io_error has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2152 2011-05-15 20:21:34 io_error has joined
2153 2011-05-15 20:21:34 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2154 2011-05-15 20:21:34 io_error has quit (Changing host)
2155 2011-05-15 20:21:34 io_error has joined
2156 2011-05-15 20:21:34 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2157 2011-05-15 20:21:35 <Nesetalis> nothing of consequence :p
2158 2011-05-15 20:21:43 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
2159 2011-05-15 20:21:43 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.3,"low":5.83,"vol":33108,"buy":6.3001,"sell":6.3773,"last":6.3257}}
2160 2011-05-15 20:21:44 molecular has joined
2161 2011-05-15 20:22:06 <edcba> http://www.zeropaid.com/news/93426/govt-plans-to-expand-internet-censorship-powers/
2162 2011-05-15 20:22:25 <zzop> Yeah the internet is dangerous to government now eh
2163 2011-05-15 20:22:32 <Nesetalis> mhm
2164 2011-05-15 20:22:43 <Nesetalis> they dont have a clue what they are doing though.
2165 2011-05-15 20:22:44 <edcba> governments
2166 2011-05-15 20:22:51 <BlueMatt> edcba: yea PROTECT ip is the biggest bullshit since COICA
2167 2011-05-15 20:23:01 <xelister> they should call it
2168 2011-05-15 20:23:04 <zzop> anything in caps can be assumed to be so. :)
2169 2011-05-15 20:23:07 <xelister> Protect the Chilllldreeeen
2170 2011-05-15 20:23:22 <edcba> bullshit doesn't prevent laws to pass
2171 2011-05-15 20:23:30 <xelister> oh usafags U so crazy =)
2172 2011-05-15 20:23:32 <BlueMatt> xelister: thats the problem, they keep passing bullshit laws under the stop cp acts
2173 2011-05-15 20:23:36 prax has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2174 2011-05-15 20:23:45 <Nesetalis> if only that wree the case xelister... :\
2175 2011-05-15 20:23:51 <BlueMatt> xelister: you do realize the eu wrote half of coica?
2176 2011-05-15 20:24:10 <BlueMatt> the eu's no better, well slightly, but not by much
2177 2011-05-15 20:24:11 <edcba> xelister: the problem is USA imposes thoses laws to other countries then
2178 2011-05-15 20:24:15 <BlueMatt> the uk certainly isnt
2179 2011-05-15 20:24:27 <edcba> french we got hadopi
2180 2011-05-15 20:24:34 <edcba> uk will have its own version too
2181 2011-05-15 20:24:35 <BlueMatt> edcba: na, the uk does too, but yea...its up to those countries to accept that crap
2182 2011-05-15 20:24:39 <xelister> Lets neuter all the network users - THINK OF THE CHILDREN.  if you oppose you're a pedo
2183 2011-05-15 20:24:50 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2184 2011-05-15 20:24:50 <edcba> was same for dmca
2185 2011-05-15 20:24:53 <BlueMatt> the uk doesnt get force by the us, they do it themselves, france somewhat
2186 2011-05-15 20:25:01 <Nesetalis> i'm amused that the hadopi enforcers got hacked :p
2187 2011-05-15 20:25:04 dbitcoin has joined
2188 2011-05-15 20:25:10 <edcba> that's so obvious i don't even see why our countries have governments
2189 2011-05-15 20:25:14 <BlueMatt> im amused that hadopi got passed at all
2190 2011-05-15 20:25:15 <zzop> http://www.copblock.org/4237/indiana-no-longer-the-hoosier-state-now-the-police-state/
2191 2011-05-15 20:25:16 <zzop> Did you guys see this?
2192 2011-05-15 20:25:19 <xelister> Lets have all people (and children lol) walk naked on the apirports - THINK OF THE TERROR... oh wait, that is already happening :D  in the land of the free and brave :P
2193 2011-05-15 20:25:26 <zzop> USA is over.
2194 2011-05-15 20:25:58 <Nesetalis> its not over zzop... its just begun :p
2195 2011-05-15 20:26:04 <xelister> since all this pro-freedom talk
2196 2011-05-15 20:26:05 <BlueMatt> yea us as a world power is over...but there isnt much to replace it :(
2197 2011-05-15 20:26:05 <zzop> Nesetalis: Intriguing. :)
2198 2011-05-15 20:26:16 <xelister> who of you fine gentelman might be using freenet and would like to connect?
2199 2011-05-15 20:26:18 <Nesetalis> all of my family in wisconsin has been at war with the government for the past 6 months
2200 2011-05-15 20:26:21 <BlueMatt> just china and ...well shit
2201 2011-05-15 20:26:29 <edcba> not being able to resist unlawful arrest is quite logical...
2202 2011-05-15 20:26:35 <Blitzboom> "3. Bitcoin is the most dangerous open-source project ever created.
2203 2011-05-15 20:26:35 <Blitzboom> 4. Bitcoin may be the most dangerous technological project since the internet itself."
2204 2011-05-15 20:26:39 <Blitzboom> http://launch.is/blog/l019-bitcoin-p2p-currency-the-most-dangerous-project-weve-ev.html
2205 2011-05-15 20:26:44 <Blitzboom> interesting
2206 2011-05-15 20:27:06 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2207 2011-05-15 20:27:20 x6763 has joined
2208 2011-05-15 20:27:21 <mtrlt> haha
2209 2011-05-15 20:27:22 <edcba> because the judge needs to determine whether it's lawful and then impose sanctions
2210 2011-05-15 20:27:30 <edcba> you can't do it by yourself
2211 2011-05-15 20:29:36 vegard has joined
2212 2011-05-15 20:29:43 <edcba> else that would mean you don't trust the laws basically i think
2213 2011-05-15 20:30:27 <edcba> bitcoin is just p2p improvement
2214 2011-05-15 20:30:43 <xelister> usafags might want one day to ban p2p altogeather
2215 2011-05-15 20:30:53 <mtrlt> ban internet
2216 2011-05-15 20:31:04 <edcba> of course but that means ban every interactive website
2217 2011-05-15 20:31:18 <ArtForzZz> yep, ban the internet, get a $10 rebate on your Apple iNet(tm)
2218 2011-05-15 20:31:23 <edcba> basically replace internet by cable :)
2219 2011-05-15 20:31:30 <xelister> edcba: hmm not really, websites are client->server  not   anypeer<-->anypeer
2220 2011-05-15 20:31:48 <edcba> but if you can read what another client sends...
2221 2011-05-15 20:32:00 <ArtForzZz> ipv6 over social networks ...
2222 2011-05-15 20:32:01 <Nesetalis> xelister.. you're forgetting one important fact.. the US is primarily run by the big buisness.. :p internet is money for them.. without information transaction? they would collapse...
2223 2011-05-15 20:32:07 <xelister> anyway we can always use sneaknets
2224 2011-05-15 20:32:09 <xelister> or what ArtForzZz said
2225 2011-05-15 20:32:16 Nicksasa has joined
2226 2011-05-15 20:32:32 <xelister> Nesetalis: I bet big corps would love to regulate and controll information exchange
2227 2011-05-15 20:32:47 <Nesetalis> regulate, sure, but not destroy
2228 2011-05-15 20:32:48 danbri has joined
2229 2011-05-15 20:32:50 AlexZ has joined
2230 2011-05-15 20:32:57 <edcba> only corps relying on IP
2231 2011-05-15 20:32:58 <Nesetalis> but the nature of the beast makes it almost impossible to regulate.
2232 2011-05-15 20:33:04 <Nesetalis> they try, something supplants it.
2233 2011-05-15 20:33:10 <edcba> sell hardware and have no problem with internet piracy
2234 2011-05-15 20:34:09 HarryS has joined
2235 2011-05-15 20:34:20 <edcba> only hardware is limited therefore have value
2236 2011-05-15 20:34:27 <edcba> so i propose to ban IP
2237 2011-05-15 20:34:35 <xelister> ban ip?
2238 2011-05-15 20:34:44 <Nesetalis> TCP/IP or Intelectual Property?
2239 2011-05-15 20:34:45 <Nesetalis> :P
2240 2011-05-15 20:34:47 <edcba> intellectual property lol
2241 2011-05-15 20:35:24 <edcba> only first rendition/execution worth somthing with IP
2242 2011-05-15 20:35:40 Nick__ has joined
2243 2011-05-15 20:36:11 <zzop> Yeah what if some gov't bans 'p2p networks' (OK yes the internet itself is one, but...)
2244 2011-05-15 20:36:21 <jlewis> is blockexplorer down?
2245 2011-05-15 20:36:22 <SerajewelKS> in the case of a dual-chain network (some nodes on a different chain) resolution happens as soon as the clients with the weaker chain become aware of the stronger chain, yes?
2246 2011-05-15 20:36:25 <zzop> Can p2p traffic be made to look like web traffic?
2247 2011-05-15 20:36:32 <Blitzboom> what if the government bans humans????????
2248 2011-05-15 20:36:35 <edcba> zzop: then you deploy your own internet
2249 2011-05-15 20:36:41 <zzop> edcba: Yeahhhh ! :)
2250 2011-05-15 20:36:47 <SerajewelKS> there is no "voting" mechanism per say, where the network decides which chain to take, right?  each client looks at all possible chains and picks the one that represents the most work?
2251 2011-05-15 20:36:53 devon_hillard has joined
2252 2011-05-15 20:37:00 <edcba> yes it can be made to look like regular web traffic
2253 2011-05-15 20:37:07 <edcba> but it would be easily spotted
2254 2011-05-15 20:37:15 <edcba> unless you only exchange texts :)
2255 2011-05-15 20:37:51 <zzop> What about padding it with fake data?
2256 2011-05-15 20:37:53 <edcba> SerajewelKS: yes
2257 2011-05-15 20:37:58 <zzop> I think there's a name for that technique...
2258 2011-05-15 20:38:10 <SerajewelKS> edcba: that's what i thought, thanks
2259 2011-05-15 20:38:38 <edcba> SerajewelKS: so clients may not work on same chain at same time
2260 2011-05-15 20:38:46 <Nesetalis> http://torrentfreak.com/vagueness-about-pirate-domain-seizures-disturbs-us-politicians-110515/
2261 2011-05-15 20:38:59 Nick__ is now known as Nicksasa_
2262 2011-05-15 20:39:00 <zzop> Eh, domains. :)
2263 2011-05-15 20:39:04 <edcba> i doubt they are *that* disturbed :)
2264 2011-05-15 20:39:10 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2265 2011-05-15 20:39:14 <zzop> What happened to that new domain system some folks were talking about?
2266 2011-05-15 20:39:23 <Nesetalis> which one?
2267 2011-05-15 20:39:37 <zzop> No idea.
2268 2011-05-15 20:39:39 <Nesetalis> p2pdns? namecoin?
2269 2011-05-15 20:39:39 <zzop> Any of them?
2270 2011-05-15 20:39:45 <zzop> Nesetalis: Yeah. Either.
2271 2011-05-15 20:39:56 <Nesetalis> http://dot-bit.org/Main_Page
2272 2011-05-15 20:40:51 <edcba> .bit thing
2273 2011-05-15 20:41:09 <edcba> i still didn't know if you can run your own .bit nameserver
2274 2011-05-15 20:41:19 <edcba> ie has .bit a central authority
2275 2011-05-15 20:41:25 bk128 has joined
2276 2011-05-15 20:41:54 <zzop> offhand: does anyone know how to split windows in irssi so I can read 2 channels at once?
2277 2011-05-15 20:42:06 <Nesetalis> you need to use a DNS server that supports .bit at the moment.. its not true p2p dns resolution... but i suppose thats mainly due to the structure of the internet more than anything else... you need to ask /some one/ where site.bit is :p
2278 2011-05-15 20:42:23 Schematografter has joined
2279 2011-05-15 20:42:25 <SerajewelKS> edcba: right
2280 2011-05-15 20:42:44 <edcba> Nesetalis: then it's useless
2281 2011-05-15 20:42:52 <SerajewelKS> edcba: i'm just trying to clear up something on the forums
2282 2011-05-15 20:42:53 <Nesetalis> its only half built :p
2283 2011-05-15 20:43:05 <SerajewelKS> edcba: this guy: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7415.msg121901#msg121901
2284 2011-05-15 20:43:06 <Nesetalis> in the end, it will need a distributed dns service.
2285 2011-05-15 20:43:15 <SerajewelKS> doesn't seem to understand how orphan chains work
2286 2011-05-15 20:43:48 AlexZ has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!)
2287 2011-05-15 20:44:53 <xelister> imo Freenet might be the future
2288 2011-05-15 20:44:59 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2289 2011-05-15 20:45:00 <zzop> xelister: Freenet, really?
2290 2011-05-15 20:45:01 <jlewis> luke-jr: your site
2291 2011-05-15 20:45:02 <xelister> also, one way to have bitcoin trully uncensorable
2292 2011-05-15 20:45:05 <jlewis> err
2293 2011-05-15 20:45:06 <jlewis> is down?
2294 2011-05-15 20:45:16 <luke-jr> jlewis: apparently
2295 2011-05-15 20:45:19 <xelister> zzop: yeap, its the only network that you can not censor... TOR was censored successfully
2296 2011-05-15 20:45:30 m00p has joined
2297 2011-05-15 20:45:50 <roconnor> freenet is only for file storage right?  not services?
2298 2011-05-15 20:45:52 <zzop> xelister: Was it? How and when?
2299 2011-05-15 20:45:53 <edcba> i still think there is 1-1 relation with tx-block in official client
2300 2011-05-15 20:45:58 <jlewis> actually appears to be back up
2301 2011-05-15 20:46:03 <edcba> ie bitcoin only track one chain
2302 2011-05-15 20:46:06 <luke-jr> jlewis: I just restarted it
2303 2011-05-15 20:46:10 <jlewis> ah, thanks
2304 2011-05-15 20:46:11 <SerajewelKS> edcba: right, that's my point in my reply
2305 2011-05-15 20:46:29 <SerajewelKS> edcba: the software does track orphan chains, but as orphans
2306 2011-05-15 20:46:38 <xelister> zzop: long ago in china,  and all the time you can censor the hidden-server to make information dissapear, like it happened with onionforum
2307 2011-05-15 20:46:41 davex__ has joined
2308 2011-05-15 20:46:55 <SerajewelKS> edcba: it doesn't track multiple candidate chains, thinking they are all equally valid.  the client always considers exactly one chain as the main chain.
2309 2011-05-15 20:47:07 <SerajewelKS> this guy doesn't get that
2310 2011-05-15 20:47:15 <edcba> i'd prefer bitcoin keeps track of all chains but...
2311 2011-05-15 20:47:26 <luke-jr> jlewis: I need to script an automatic reboot of pushpoold I think
2312 2011-05-15 20:47:27 kika has joined
2313 2011-05-15 20:47:37 <xelister> roconnor: freenet works for chats, boards etc. Services are possible. Mercurial (like svn/git) over Freenet exists
2314 2011-05-15 20:47:40 <luke-jr> actually… maybe not
2315 2011-05-15 20:47:51 <roconnor> oh?
2316 2011-05-15 20:48:05 <roconnor> which is better for hidden services: I2P, Tor or Freenet?
2317 2011-05-15 20:48:19 <edcba> depends on 'better'
2318 2011-05-15 20:48:20 <kika> semprom 140 is considered a series 100 ? because this mobo says it supports am3 series 100 semprom but im not sure if it supports this semprom 140 am3 processor?
2319 2011-05-15 20:48:24 <xelister> roconnor: for hidden web page, I would use Freenet mostly (and perahsp gateway via tor/i2p)
2320 2011-05-15 20:48:38 <roconnor> what are the advantages/disadvantes for hidden services between: I2P, Tor or Freenet?
2321 2011-05-15 20:48:45 <xelister> for a service, Freenet also MAY be the win but it needs more coding, while TOR is almost totally transpoartent
2322 2011-05-15 20:49:03 <xelister> actually, on #btcfn
2323 2011-05-15 20:49:09 <xelister> we are developing BitCoin as service on Freenet
2324 2011-05-15 20:49:18 <xelister> (recently started)
2325 2011-05-15 20:49:30 <kika> if i have a mobo that supports am3 socket that means that it will support any processor that be am3 socket?
2326 2011-05-15 20:49:39 <edcba> is there a fast protocol in freenet ?
2327 2011-05-15 20:49:40 <xelister> kika: ##hardware
2328 2011-05-15 20:49:46 <roconnor> xelister: what does that mean?
2329 2011-05-15 20:50:01 <xelister> edcba: experimental IRC over freenet worked with 30 second latency
2330 2011-05-15 20:50:06 <edcba> lol
2331 2011-05-15 20:50:10 <kika> xelister: i cant join there i need to be invited
2332 2011-05-15 20:50:18 <xelister> 0.5 - 5 minutes latency is to be expected
2333 2011-05-15 20:50:46 <edcba> at least freenet is appropriate for irc/bitcoin
2334 2011-05-15 20:50:49 bitcoiner_ has joined
2335 2011-05-15 20:50:54 <edcba> ie everything broadcasting
2336 2011-05-15 20:51:02 <bitcoiner_> hi folks anyone  there?
2337 2011-05-15 20:51:03 <edcba> tor is less appropriate for that
2338 2011-05-15 20:51:35 <bitcoiner_> any there?
2339 2011-05-15 20:51:40 <edcba> nope
2340 2011-05-15 20:51:43 <bitcoiner_> ha
2341 2011-05-15 20:51:45 <jlewis> no, no one's here
2342 2011-05-15 20:51:46 <io_error> Nobody uses this channel.
2343 2011-05-15 20:51:50 <bitcoiner_> hahah
2344 2011-05-15 20:51:55 <bitcoiner_> i have a quick question
2345 2011-05-15 20:52:00 <io_error> There's no such thing.
2346 2011-05-15 20:52:01 <edcba> thus the io error !
2347 2011-05-15 20:52:01 <jlewis> ask it, don't ask to ask
2348 2011-05-15 20:52:12 <xelister> edcba: yea freenet is a totoall win for one-to-many communication, it can work quite fast then.  (still, higher latency then TOR. but can have good b/w )
2349 2011-05-15 20:52:16 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2350 2011-05-15 20:52:17 <xelister> *totall win
2351 2011-05-15 20:52:27 <xelister> kika: invited you
2352 2011-05-15 20:52:34 <SerajewelKS> edcba: bitcoin does keep track of all chains
2353 2011-05-15 20:52:34 <bitcoiner_> how do you mine to the same wallet w/ 2 seperate computers?
2354 2011-05-15 20:52:43 <SerajewelKS> edcba: the client keeps track of all chains it was ever aware of
2355 2011-05-15 20:52:55 davex__ has joined
2356 2011-05-15 20:52:56 <roconnor> xelister: sounds like for 1-1 web services, tor might be better.  I'm not sure how i2p fits in.
2357 2011-05-15 20:53:08 <edcba> even if some client sends you a block not in longer chain ? :)
2358 2011-05-15 20:53:21 <bitcoiner_> i would really appreciate the help if someone knows, how to mine to 1 wallet with several computers
2359 2011-05-15 20:53:30 <edcba> you can't
2360 2011-05-15 20:53:50 <xelister> roconnor: for totally 1-1, TOR (and i2p) are faster and much simplier.  But bitcoin can be mostly N-1 (blockchain) with some 1-1.  And Freenet is supposed to be most secure eventually
2361 2011-05-15 20:53:52 <bitcoiner_> so you will always have multiple wallets?
2362 2011-05-15 20:53:54 <edcba> just mine with several wallets and send them to one global wallet
2363 2011-05-15 20:54:04 <edcba> (really you can but...)
2364 2011-05-15 20:54:11 <roconnor> xelister: sure.  I'm think of web services that use bitcoin
2365 2011-05-15 20:54:18 <SerajewelKS> edcba: no, the client would keep track of that block IIRC, but it won't consider it valid since the chain would be shorter than the main chain
2366 2011-05-15 20:54:22 <roconnor> such as this common hyptohetical example of an online casino
2367 2011-05-15 20:54:48 <xelister> roconnor: well, fell free to wach how btcfn takes on development :)
2368 2011-05-15 20:54:56 basic_ed has joined
2369 2011-05-15 20:54:58 <SerajewelKS> edcba: in the bitcoin source code you can ask for orphaned blocks and you will get a valid record
2370 2011-05-15 20:55:04 basic_ed has quit (Client Quit)
2371 2011-05-15 20:55:12 <SerajewelKS> edcba: unless you are talking about something else
2372 2011-05-15 20:55:14 <roconnor> xelister: oh I'd be quite interested in using a bitcoin protocol over freenet
2373 2011-05-15 20:55:16 <bitcoiner_> okay - i have 10k USD to spend on making a bitcoin mining room, anyone want to join in? if you help me set up , we can work somthing out
2374 2011-05-15 20:55:27 <edcba> for casino don't use freenet :p
2375 2011-05-15 20:56:05 <edcba> i can only finance in bitcoins lol
2376 2011-05-15 20:56:20 nixoid has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2377 2011-05-15 20:56:26 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
2378 2011-05-15 20:56:26 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.9,"low":5.83,"vol":29838,"buy":6.31,"sell":6.4,"last":6.4}}
2379 2011-05-15 20:56:31 <edcba> lol
2380 2011-05-15 20:56:52 <bitcoiner_> ;;bc,mtgox
2381 2011-05-15 20:56:53 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.9,"low":5.83,"vol":29838,"buy":6.31,"sell":6.3999,"last":6.4}}
2382 2011-05-15 20:56:53 Nesetalis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2383 2011-05-15 20:57:15 Nesetalis has joined
2384 2011-05-15 20:57:39 <edcba> ArtForzZz sold his bitcoins :p
2385 2011-05-15 20:57:51 <xelister> you SOLD OUT :<
2386 2011-05-15 20:59:48 <edcba> frontpage of /. is not for this week then
2387 2011-05-15 21:00:04 <lupine_85> heh, 40 lines to implement that crazy variable integer scheme
2388 2011-05-15 21:00:07 <dissipate> bitcoiner_, what is a 'bitcoin mining room'?
2389 2011-05-15 21:00:24 <xelister> dissipate: a sauna
2390 2011-05-15 21:00:48 <dissipate> xelister, haha
2391 2011-05-15 21:04:35 kika has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2392 2011-05-15 21:04:38 zzop has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2393 2011-05-15 21:05:07 bitcoiner_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2394 2011-05-15 21:05:50 kaps has joined
2395 2011-05-15 21:06:09 <kaps> hey all
2396 2011-05-15 21:06:40 <kaps> I have a question for you all
2397 2011-05-15 21:07:11 <kaps> don't you know maybe when the difficulty will be raised?
2398 2011-05-15 21:07:41 <justmoon> ;;bc,estimate
2399 2011-05-15 21:07:42 <gribble> 222392.88391219
2400 2011-05-15 21:07:48 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,info
2401 2011-05-15 21:07:49 <gribble> Error: "bc,info" is not a valid command.
2402 2011-05-15 21:07:50 <Diablo-D3> er
2403 2011-05-15 21:07:53 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,help
2404 2011-05-15 21:07:53 <gribble> Alias bc,24hprc, Alias bc,avgprc, Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,btcguild, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,deepbit, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,eligius, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,fx, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,googlerate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,interval, Alias bc,lukepool, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,mtgoxask, (1 more message)
2405 2011-05-15 21:07:55 <justmoon> ;;bc,timetonext
2406 2011-05-15 21:07:55 <gribble> 3 days, 21 hours, 20 minutes, and 0 seconds
2407 2011-05-15 21:08:01 <Diablo-D3> yeah that.
2408 2011-05-15 21:08:07 <justmoon> :D
2409 2011-05-15 21:08:12 <justmoon> we fail!
2410 2011-05-15 21:08:13 <xelister> 3 days :-E
2411 2011-05-15 21:08:19 <xelister> ;;bc,stats
2412 2011-05-15 21:08:21 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124191 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 800 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 21 hours, 20 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 222392.88391219
2413 2011-05-15 21:08:27 <xelister> 225 k DIFF
2414 2011-05-15 21:08:33 <xelister> THIS IS AN OUTRAGE :-E
2415 2011-05-15 21:09:00 <Diablo-D3> this is sparta.
2416 2011-05-15 21:09:03 <jlewis> yeah it's gonna hurt
2417 2011-05-15 21:09:14 <kaps> aawwww
2418 2011-05-15 21:09:20 <kaps> thanx
2419 2011-05-15 21:09:55 <kaps> so stop digging maybe it would hurt less :D
2420 2011-05-15 21:10:10 <vegard> does that mean it will take 41% longer to create a block?
2421 2011-05-15 21:10:11 davex__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2422 2011-05-15 21:10:13 <io_error> Forget mining, sell those worthless cards and buy
2423 2011-05-15 21:10:26 <kaps> yeah
2424 2011-05-15 21:10:43 <Diablo-D3> hah
2425 2011-05-15 21:10:46 <gmaxwell> xelister: it needs to go up a bit still to meet my projection
2426 2011-05-15 21:11:02 dstien has joined
2427 2011-05-15 21:11:18 TD has joined
2428 2011-05-15 21:13:38 <xelister> USA Airports 2012 http://wulffmorgenthaler.com/strip/2008/09/11/
2429 2011-05-15 21:14:01 fabianhjr has joined
2430 2011-05-15 21:14:17 <fabianhjr> MagicalTux: You there?
2431 2011-05-15 21:14:51 kaps has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2432 2011-05-15 21:15:56 <MagicalTux> fabianhjr: no
2433 2011-05-15 21:16:03 <MagicalTux> going back to sleep, too early
2434 2011-05-15 21:16:16 <Diablo-D3> heh its a MagicalTux
2435 2011-05-15 21:16:35 <fabianhjr> MagicalTux: I am experiencing problems with MtGox.
2436 2011-05-15 21:16:54 <fabianhjr> It doesn't process orders even if I have enough funds.
2437 2011-05-15 21:17:16 <MagicalTux> fabianhjr: would you happen to have more orders than you have funds? (known bug)
2438 2011-05-15 21:17:35 <edcba> wtf does that mean
2439 2011-05-15 21:17:35 kaps has joined
2440 2011-05-15 21:17:36 <fabianhjr> I have cancelled all orders and then tried to buy.
2441 2011-05-15 21:17:40 <fabianhjr> No luck.
2442 2011-05-15 21:17:57 <fabianhjr> I have cero orders open.
2443 2011-05-15 21:18:22 <kaps> okay, I've got one more question me that bothers me all the time..
2444 2011-05-15 21:18:35 davex__ has joined
2445 2011-05-15 21:18:44 <lupine_85> woo, yay. wire format for 'addr' type message differs according to version quite amusingly
2446 2011-05-15 21:18:50 <kaps> does anybody know what EXACTLY is counted by all those comps?
2447 2011-05-15 21:18:54 <MagicalTux> fabianhjr: send me an email ( info@mtgox.com ) with your login
2448 2011-05-15 21:19:06 <fabianhjr> Isn't my ID just enough?
2449 2011-05-15 21:19:30 <xelister> kaps: sha256 checksums
2450 2011-05-15 21:19:39 <fabianhjr> fabianhjr, just like any other place. :P
2451 2011-05-15 21:19:50 <edcba> 2 sha256 of some block
2452 2011-05-15 21:19:56 <kaps> hmm
2453 2011-05-15 21:20:38 <kaps> coz u know i wonder if there is no trick or sumthin
2454 2011-05-15 21:20:44 davex__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2455 2011-05-15 21:21:17 <kaps> and we're not hackin sumtin
2456 2011-05-15 21:21:27 GermainAdrian has joined
2457 2011-05-15 21:21:30 <bk128> did one of the pools get attacked again?
2458 2011-05-15 21:22:02 davex__ has joined
2459 2011-05-15 21:22:51 <edcba> kaps: the only thing we are hacking is sha
2460 2011-05-15 21:24:55 <kaps> I heard that sha didnt work in 4programmers.net thing
2461 2011-05-15 21:25:09 <edcba> ?
2462 2011-05-15 21:25:31 <edcba> maybe you are thinking about md5
2463 2011-05-15 21:25:36 <kaps> there was a leak of passwords
2464 2011-05-15 21:25:39 <kaps> or sumthing
2465 2011-05-15 21:25:58 <edcba> passwords is another matter
2466 2011-05-15 21:26:14 <edcba> you can try a lot of passwords with some gpu card
2467 2011-05-15 21:26:22 <edcba> you can't do same with bitcoin blocks
2468 2011-05-15 21:26:25 <edcba> ni
2469 2011-05-15 21:26:37 <edcba> in fact you can but bitcoin adjusts difficulty
2470 2011-05-15 21:30:39 allied has quit ()
2471 2011-05-15 21:31:07 allied has joined
2472 2011-05-15 21:31:25 <kaps> so all those extremly difficuilt stuff with counting is only  for veryfing autentity of transactions?
2473 2011-05-15 21:32:29 ches_ has joined
2474 2011-05-15 21:32:36 <xelister> kaps: no we are hacking into pentagon
2475 2011-05-15 21:32:37 <ches_> hi there
2476 2011-05-15 21:32:46 <kaps> hehe
2477 2011-05-15 21:32:51 <kaps> hi
2478 2011-05-15 21:32:58 <ches_> guys, ive got a question
2479 2011-05-15 21:33:11 <xelister> kaps: be realistic, its open source, go view the source code. Calculating random sha256's so that generating "money" is not too easy otherwise it would be worthless
2480 2011-05-15 21:33:34 <ches_> when exactly particular computer is awarded? when it finds out that sha256 checksum seems to be incorrect?
2481 2011-05-15 21:34:11 <xelister> ches_: when it founds a number that solves given sha256. it takes weeks or months on good GPUs even
2482 2011-05-15 21:34:17 retinal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2483 2011-05-15 21:34:24 <xelister> btw nvidia's are not good
2484 2011-05-15 21:34:48 <kaps> ok ok thx I'm just not that clever with this stuff
2485 2011-05-15 21:36:33 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r4969c5e / test/blockchain.js : Added test for querying by block locator. (+6 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/khom6W
2486 2011-05-15 21:37:20 <ches_> so it's random sha256?
2487 2011-05-15 21:37:32 <ches_> is it just like big lottery?
2488 2011-05-15 21:37:44 <vegard> the bitcoin code doesn't seem very portable. it seems to rely a lot on the fact that int is 32 bits and endian is little endian. or am I wrong?
2489 2011-05-15 21:37:53 <ches_> or is it somehow connected to data info about history of transactions?
2490 2011-05-15 21:38:09 <vegard> ches_: you don't have to hit an exact hash, but you need to get a number which is smaller than the current "target"
2491 2011-05-15 21:38:46 <ches_> i get this part, but we're not calculating anything useful anyway, yes?
2492 2011-05-15 21:39:09 <vegard> it depends
2493 2011-05-15 21:39:16 <vegard> it's useful for bitcoin
2494 2011-05-15 21:39:16 <mtrlt> it is useful for the bitcoin network
2495 2011-05-15 21:39:35 <vegard> it's not useful for anything else (except as an extension of bitcoin)
2496 2011-05-15 21:40:26 marlowe has joined
2497 2011-05-15 21:40:34 <ches_> thx for replies :)
2498 2011-05-15 21:44:13 <Nesetalis> so what other useful bitcoin channels are there on freenode?
2499 2011-05-15 21:44:26 <dissipate> Nesetalis, #bitcoin-politics
2500 2011-05-15 21:44:35 <Nesetalis> looks scary :p
2501 2011-05-15 21:46:26 Schematografter is now known as Moonies
2502 2011-05-15 21:46:37 <xelister> Nesetalis: #btcfn might be of interest for anons =/)
2503 2011-05-15 21:47:06 <ches_> anyone active at mtgox? are those fees capable?
2504 2011-05-15 21:47:13 <xelister> ches_: capable?
2505 2011-05-15 21:47:15 redwizard_kde has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2506 2011-05-15 21:47:38 <ches_> well, are they as bad as it seems in theory?
2507 2011-05-15 21:48:14 <ches_> like 0.65% fee in every trade
2508 2011-05-15 21:48:33 <ches_> just asking if anyone still makes money there
2509 2011-05-15 21:48:37 <jgarzik> ches_: that's cheaper than traditional forex or Charles Schwab equity trading
2510 2011-05-15 21:48:52 <jgarzik> ches_: so "bad" is a matter of opinion
2511 2011-05-15 21:49:01 <Titeuf_87> looking at the bitcoin protocol: what is the version in the getblocks message used for (if anything) ?
2512 2011-05-15 21:49:16 <jgarzik> Titeuf_87: getting blocks
2513 2011-05-15 21:49:25 <jgarzik> oh, the version
2514 2011-05-15 21:49:31 <jgarzik> standard versioning
2515 2011-05-15 21:49:49 <Titeuf_87> jgarzik, yeah, why add the version in there when you already sent a version message before saying what your version is
2516 2011-05-15 21:50:29 <jgarzik> Titeuf_87: I don't see version in there
2517 2011-05-15 21:50:43 <jgarzik> Titeuf_87: vRecv >> locator >> hashStop;
2518 2011-05-15 21:51:13 <Titeuf_87> jgarzik, oh, I was looking at the wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#getblocks
2519 2011-05-15 21:51:17 <Titeuf_87> jgarzik, not the actual source
2520 2011-05-15 21:51:27 <justmoon> jgarzik: the networking code adds the version later
2521 2011-05-15 21:51:49 <justmoon> Titeuf_87: the getblocks has a version just like any message has a version as long as it's sent after the initial handshake
2522 2011-05-15 21:52:01 <lupine_85> vegard, you have to specify the endianness, aye. it doesn't follow conventions (network byte order) and isn't consistent
2523 2011-05-15 21:52:23 taco_the_paco has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2524 2011-05-15 21:52:33 <jgarzik> justmoon: "adds"?  There is the initial handshake versioning, but I do not see where a version is _added_ ???
2525 2011-05-15 21:52:41 <lupine_85> also, having the meaning of commands changed from version to version is evil
2526 2011-05-15 21:52:49 <jgarzik> justmoon: version happens -before- getblocks not later, AFAICS?
2527 2011-05-15 21:53:03 pigeons has joined
2528 2011-05-15 21:53:18 <lupine_85> life would be simpler if version 31402 had introduced a "addr_stamp" command, say
2529 2011-05-15 21:53:27 <justmoon> on the wire I get magic bytes, command name, padding, payload length, checksum and then version
2530 2011-05-15 21:53:27 <lupine_85> (why doesn't the command field use a var_str?)
2531 2011-05-15 21:53:54 <lupine_85> too late to change it now, I guess ;)
2532 2011-05-15 21:54:35 <jgarzik> justmoon: for each command?
2533 2011-05-15 21:54:44 AStove has quit ()
2534 2011-05-15 21:54:48 taco_the_paco has joined
2535 2011-05-15 21:54:51 <jgarzik> justmoon: I can see that only for the first command
2536 2011-05-15 21:55:29 <justmoon> hang on, let me make sure I don't remember things wrong
2537 2011-05-15 21:58:40 <justmoon> jgarzik: you're right, i was confusing checksum and version
2538 2011-05-15 21:58:53 <justmoon> so the wiki is wrong?
2539 2011-05-15 21:59:10 <jgarzik> the wiki is wrong
2540 2011-05-15 21:59:56 <Titeuf_87> ok, thank you both for your help :)
2541 2011-05-15 22:00:31 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2542 2011-05-15 22:00:39 <justmoon> jgarzik: i'll fix it unless you're already doing it?
2543 2011-05-15 22:00:43 dissipate has joined
2544 2011-05-15 22:01:10 Apocal has joined
2545 2011-05-15 22:01:13 <justmoon> applies to getheaders too
2546 2011-05-15 22:01:30 <jgarzik> justmoon: I don't wiki
2547 2011-05-15 22:01:45 <justmoon> kk, I'll do it
2548 2011-05-15 22:01:56 <jgarzik> one edit war was enough for me to say goodbye to bitcoin wiki
2549 2011-05-15 22:02:10 <jgarzik> (not saying there would be an edit war here, just stating a general principle)
2550 2011-05-15 22:02:21 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
2551 2011-05-15 22:02:26 <justmoon> jgarzik: btw I was working on an scsi kernel driver recently and ran into your name in scsi.h :D - small world
2552 2011-05-15 22:02:41 <jgarzik> justmoon: yep, bitcoin is hobby, that's my day job
2553 2011-05-15 22:04:22 <justmoon> wiki is fixed, thanks Titeuf_87
2554 2011-05-15 22:04:44 <Titeuf_87> thank you for fixing it and looking into this!
2555 2011-05-15 22:05:10 <justmoon> Titeuf_87: that's actually the last command my client is missing, so I was about to implement it anyway
2556 2011-05-15 22:05:23 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2557 2011-05-15 22:05:46 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r2cdf000 / lib/connection.js : Removed version field that doesn't actually exist. - http://bit.ly/jI2Wgy
2558 2011-05-15 22:06:12 <Titeuf_87> justmoon, out of curiosity, what language are you coding your client in?
2559 2011-05-15 22:06:13 ches_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2560 2011-05-15 22:07:28 <justmoon> Titeuf_87: JavaScript/Node.js, see https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p
2561 2011-05-15 22:09:42 <Nesetalis> one thought.. why the heck is wallet.dat being stored in %APPDATA% on windows.. this is the most likely place for a corruption or loss of data to happen on a windows box :| though I suppose its up to the individual user to backup their wallet, but its still a bit dangerous.
2562 2011-05-15 22:10:04 <Titeuf_87> justmoon, oh, I've seen your screencast about it, looks nice :)
2563 2011-05-15 22:10:40 <Titeuf_87> Nesetalis, not a big windows user, but I assume so that every user can have their own wallet?
2564 2011-05-15 22:10:48 <justmoon> Titeuf_87: thanks - too many bugs though still - we're running a test deployment, it's still crashing every day almost ^^
2565 2011-05-15 22:11:01 <Nesetalis> i personally would have written it to ask you on installation (or first run) where you want to store your wallet
2566 2011-05-15 22:11:10 <Nesetalis> and give a suggestion for truecrypt drive
2567 2011-05-15 22:11:11 <Nesetalis> :p
2568 2011-05-15 22:11:13 larsivi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2569 2011-05-15 22:11:34 <Nesetalis> this would give the user a better realization that this file is their money.
2570 2011-05-15 22:12:07 <Nesetalis> truecrypt volume *
2571 2011-05-15 22:12:34 _ape has joined
2572 2011-05-15 22:12:40 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2573 2011-05-15 22:12:41 <jrmithdobbs> justmoon: nifty.
2574 2011-05-15 22:13:06 kaps has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2575 2011-05-15 22:13:16 <justmoon> jrmithdobbs: thx :)
2576 2011-05-15 22:13:37 Nicksasa_ is now known as Nicksasa
2577 2011-05-15 22:14:13 <jrmithdobbs> justmoon: are you storing the blockchain in mongoose or just the metadata and regen it from the actual blockchain?
2578 2011-05-15 22:14:55 <justmoon> jrmithdobbs: the full blockchain
2579 2011-05-15 22:15:01 Siph0n has joined
2580 2011-05-15 22:15:05 <jrmithdobbs> justmoon: niftier
2581 2011-05-15 22:15:08 <jrmithdobbs> !
2582 2011-05-15 22:16:19 Teslah has joined
2583 2011-05-15 22:17:01 <_ape> just finished porting my btcguild gadget to work with btcmine https://github.com/apeape/BTCMine-Stats-Gadget
2584 2011-05-15 22:17:03 <_ape> if anyone wants it heh
2585 2011-05-15 22:17:05 Teslah has quit (Client Quit)
2586 2011-05-15 22:19:40 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2587 2011-05-15 22:25:18 <roconnor> mental note, do not subtract two unsigned words and check for positivity.
2588 2011-05-15 22:25:33 <jrmithdobbs> haha
2589 2011-05-15 22:25:50 <roconnor> is 0 <= ins - outs ... sure always!
2590 2011-05-15 22:28:25 knotwork has joined
2591 2011-05-15 22:28:25 knotwork has quit (Changing host)
2592 2011-05-15 22:28:25 knotwork has joined
2593 2011-05-15 22:29:25 pigeons has quit (Quit: leaving)
2594 2011-05-15 22:32:16 citiz3n has joined
2595 2011-05-15 22:34:10 noagendamarket has joined
2596 2011-05-15 22:34:43 sytse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2597 2011-05-15 22:37:50 coco has joined
2598 2011-05-15 22:39:00 basic_ed has joined
2599 2011-05-15 22:42:54 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
2600 2011-05-15 22:44:42 mosimo has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
2601 2011-05-15 22:46:24 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2602 2011-05-15 22:46:44 kermit has joined
2603 2011-05-15 22:47:43 jsemar has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2604 2011-05-15 22:48:55 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
2605 2011-05-15 22:54:19 Animeking has joined
2606 2011-05-15 22:54:28 monad has joined
2607 2011-05-15 22:54:32 <monad> hi
2608 2011-05-15 22:54:36 <Animeking> Hmm, so raising shaders clock increases the amount of hash?
2609 2011-05-15 22:54:50 <monad> what is the easiest way to buy bitcoins in the us?
2610 2011-05-15 22:54:56 <Diablo-D3> mtgox
2611 2011-05-15 22:54:58 <Animeking> mtgox?
2612 2011-05-15 22:55:09 <monad> ok, but it will still take days?
2613 2011-05-15 22:55:25 <monad> anything i can do this evening?
2614 2011-05-15 22:55:27 <Animeking> usually instantaneous
2615 2011-05-15 22:56:05 <monad> but im in the US.  They don't take cc and all the other payment services are rather complex
2616 2011-05-15 22:57:00 <_ape> im going to try dwolla whenever they get around to sending 26 cents to my bank account so i can verify it
2617 2011-05-15 22:57:09 <_ape> fucking banks dont operate on the weekend
2618 2011-05-15 22:57:22 <monad> right
2619 2011-05-15 22:57:31 <monad> im having the same problems
2620 2011-05-15 22:57:35 <monad> just have to wait i guess
2621 2011-05-15 22:57:37 <_ape> idk how they get away with it, everything else on the planet doesnt stop working on weekends
2622 2011-05-15 22:57:42 <_ape> besides UPS ground
2623 2011-05-15 22:57:43 <_ape> lol
2624 2011-05-15 22:57:51 <Animeking> So how do I change the clock of my GPU to work with bitcoins? :/ Raise shaders lower core?
2625 2011-05-15 22:58:04 <_ape> are you using nvidia or something?
2626 2011-05-15 22:58:09 <Animeking> yes
2627 2011-05-15 22:58:18 <_ape> probably not even worth the power costs
2628 2011-05-15 22:58:30 <Animeking> :/
2629 2011-05-15 22:58:31 <_ape> just buy a 5850 for $100
2630 2011-05-15 22:58:33 <_ape> youd be better off
2631 2011-05-15 22:58:36 <Animeking> um
2632 2011-05-15 22:58:40 <Animeking> i have a gtx 260
2633 2011-05-15 22:58:45 <_ape> yeah but that is slow
2634 2011-05-15 22:58:45 <_ape> :P
2635 2011-05-15 22:58:47 <_ape> for hashing
2636 2011-05-15 22:58:54 <Animeking> :/
2637 2011-05-15 22:58:57 <_ape> check the mining hw page
2638 2011-05-15 22:59:14 <monad> what does  MH/s mean?
2639 2011-05-15 22:59:21 MartianW has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2640 2011-05-15 22:59:32 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2641 2011-05-15 23:03:20 <Animeking> megahash?
2642 2011-05-15 23:03:27 <Animeking> megahertz?
2643 2011-05-15 23:03:46 <Animeking> well, looking at the hardware comparison
2644 2011-05-15 23:03:55 <Animeking> it seems nvidia sucks for hashing as you said :/
2645 2011-05-15 23:03:55 gjs278 has joined
2646 2011-05-15 23:04:09 <Animeking> but i totally can't afford 50-100 bucks lol
2647 2011-05-15 23:05:03 <directhex> know a good way to afford it? selling bitcoins for cash. that way the 5850 is officially an *investment*
2648 2011-05-15 23:05:15 TD has joined
2649 2011-05-15 23:05:52 basic_ed has quit (Quit: basic_ed)
2650 2011-05-15 23:05:54 <roconnor> sipa, TD: just to double check, the coinbase doesn't have to spend all of it's value and it can burn some coins if it wants to?
2651 2011-05-15 23:06:02 <Animeking> I have 100 bitcoins only at the moment.
2652 2011-05-15 23:06:20 <Animeking> I'd sell them in mtgox but I wouldn't have enough to withdraw them last i checked
2653 2011-05-15 23:06:23 <Animeking> you need 800 minimum
2654 2011-05-15 23:06:30 <directhex> Animeking: you can easily afford a 6990 for that
2655 2011-05-15 23:06:42 Schematografter has joined
2656 2011-05-15 23:06:49 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2657 2011-05-15 23:07:22 coco has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2658 2011-05-15 23:08:13 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2659 2011-05-15 23:08:47 <Animeking> ;/
2660 2011-05-15 23:08:54 <Animeking> lemme check gox
2661 2011-05-15 23:12:39 Cyde has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2662 2011-05-15 23:13:09 <Animeking> o.O current price is 6 bucks
2663 2011-05-15 23:13:11 <Animeking> wow...
2664 2011-05-15 23:13:24 <Animeking> how high is this going to rise ._.
2665 2011-05-15 23:13:52 <Titeuf_87> It almost reached 9$ yesterday.
2666 2011-05-15 23:13:59 <Animeking> o.O
2667 2011-05-15 23:14:03 <Animeking> This is insane
2668 2011-05-15 23:14:17 <Animeking> fudge, I wish I invested in it back when it was worth less
2669 2011-05-15 23:14:30 <Animeking> this is insanity lol
2670 2011-05-15 23:14:46 monad has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2671 2011-05-15 23:14:50 <jrabbit> well theres a lot of bitcoins laying around
2672 2011-05-15 23:14:59 basic_ed has joined
2673 2011-05-15 23:15:29 zq has joined
2674 2011-05-15 23:16:02 <directhex> yeah, i'm cross about the $9 thing, i sold a few at $6. could've hit £100 if i'd waited a few days.
2675 2011-05-15 23:16:17 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2676 2011-05-15 23:16:18 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.78,"low":6.2,"vol":18463,"buy":6.7005,"sell":7,"last":6.89}}
2677 2011-05-15 23:16:21 <directhex> Animeking: i was reading about the guy who was selling pizza for 10,000 BTC. what an investment!
2678 2011-05-15 23:16:45 <Animeking> jesus lol
2679 2011-05-15 23:16:55 <directhex> just 1 year ago, 10,000 BTC for $25 of pizza was revolutionary.
2680 2011-05-15 23:17:02 <directhex> go figure.
2681 2011-05-15 23:17:32 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa-Sleep
2682 2011-05-15 23:18:11 Jefff has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2683 2011-05-15 23:19:01 <Diablo-D3> heh its directhex
2684 2011-05-15 23:19:20 <directhex> is that a problem?
2685 2011-05-15 23:20:21 _ape has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2686 2011-05-15 23:20:31 Jefff has joined
2687 2011-05-15 23:21:00 GermainAdrian has left ()
2688 2011-05-15 23:21:13 _ape has joined
2689 2011-05-15 23:21:30 <Diablo-D3> directhex: depends, are you trying to spread your swpats here?
2690 2011-05-15 23:22:47 <directhex> i'm not trying to spread anything. i wanted to clear up a licensing question with ArtForzZz.
2691 2011-05-15 23:23:48 <ArtForzZz> ?
2692 2011-05-15 23:24:12 Incitatus has joined
2693 2011-05-15 23:25:16 <directhex> ArtForzZz: it seems the opencl kernel used by several miners is yours (e.g. https://github.com/m0mchil/poclbm/blob/master/BitcoinMiner.cl, https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/blob/master/src/main/resources/DiabloMiner.cl) but I can't find proper copyright/licensing info for it
2694 2011-05-15 23:25:20 <sipa> roconnor: yes
2695 2011-05-15 23:25:27 <sipa> roconnor: you don't have to claim all funds
2696 2011-05-15 23:25:35 <sipa> though i would actuallt consider that a bug
2697 2011-05-15 23:25:36 <ArtForzZz> well, derivatives of mine, yeah
2698 2011-05-15 23:25:39 <sipa> *actually
2699 2011-05-15 23:25:47 <ArtForzZz> because there is none
2700 2011-05-15 23:26:01 <Diablo-D3> ArtForzZz: well, mines available under GPLv3
2701 2011-05-15 23:26:15 <Diablo-D3> er
2702 2011-05-15 23:26:17 <Diablo-D3> directhex:
2703 2011-05-15 23:26:24 <Diablo-D3> since its not quite what Art originally wrote
2704 2011-05-15 23:26:27 <ArtForzZz> if you check the public logs of this channel, I wrote about half a dozen times that my original cl kernel is public domain
2705 2011-05-15 23:26:41 <Diablo-D3> ArtForzZz: yeah, but directhex, a well known troll, cant read.
2706 2011-05-15 23:26:43 <ArtForzZz> and the midifed kernels are under whatever the hell their authors want to put them under
2707 2011-05-15 23:26:43 sethsethseth__ has joined
2708 2011-05-15 23:26:53 <directhex> ArtForzZz: ok, thanks, that clears things up
2709 2011-05-15 23:27:16 Siph0n has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2710 2011-05-15 23:28:03 sethsethseth___ has joined
2711 2011-05-15 23:28:13 <directhex> Diablo-D3: it's very hard to read things that don't exist. hence the problem of code without adequate copyright headers.
2712 2011-05-15 23:28:15 <Animeking> when do you guys think the next price increase will be o.O
2713 2011-05-15 23:28:24 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2714 2011-05-15 23:28:25 sethsethseth___ is now known as sethsethseth
2715 2011-05-15 23:28:31 <_ape> directhex: this channels logs are public
2716 2011-05-15 23:28:33 <_ape> check the topic
2717 2011-05-15 23:29:11 <_ape> Animeking: i would guess either next time the market gets too stable or after next difficulty bump
2718 2011-05-15 23:29:46 <directhex> _ape: sure, i just usually expect to see info pertaining to legal redistributability with software itself, rather than by reading months of irc backlog on the offchance that some nugget of relevant info is in there
2719 2011-05-15 23:29:46 <Animeking> ah
2720 2011-05-15 23:29:55 <_ape> i am no market analyst though
2721 2011-05-15 23:29:57 <_ape> so dont trust anything
2722 2011-05-15 23:29:57 <_ape> lol
2723 2011-05-15 23:30:27 <_ape> i dont use any licenses either, can't be bothered
2724 2011-05-15 23:30:54 <gmaxwell> directhex: now bug the miner software authors to include notices.
2725 2011-05-15 23:30:54 <_ape> its kind of pompous to put a license on something <25 people are ever going to see
2726 2011-05-15 23:31:16 sethsethseth__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2727 2011-05-15 23:31:20 <gmaxwell> _ape: might save someone trouble down the line and takes you like two seconds to copy in some boiler plate text.
2728 2011-05-15 23:31:37 <_ape> why? because they dont understand how public domain works? :X
2729 2011-05-15 23:31:56 <gmaxwell> _ape: you need to at least have a notice. Things are not public domain by default.
2730 2011-05-15 23:32:01 <directhex> gmaxwell: on the assertions made by ArtForzZz they're technically in compliance already. but it would certainly be safer to be explicit
2731 2011-05-15 23:32:23 <Diablo-D3> directhex: yes, his original is public domain
2732 2011-05-15 23:32:43 <directhex> _ape: in many legal jurisdictions including this one, the default copyright for creative works is "(c) author, all rights reserved". without an explicit note, you can't just *assume* it's public domain
2733 2011-05-15 23:32:47 <_ape> they have to contact me to use my code by default if theyre going to distribute it, otherwise they can do whatever they want
2734 2011-05-15 23:33:00 sgornick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2735 2011-05-15 23:33:04 <gmaxwell> _ape: since the berne convention no notice or registration can be required by any country to get a copyright in any signing country. It's automatic.
2736 2011-05-15 23:33:14 <directhex> _ape: that's how you end up with newspapers stealing photos from flickr and saying "(c) internet"
2737 2011-05-15 23:34:19 <phantomcircuit> ARGH STILL ONLY AT 95k !!!
2738 2011-05-15 23:34:20 <phantomcircuit> FUFUFU
2739 2011-05-15 23:34:30 <directhex> if you're not explicit, there are two options: people assume the worst, or assume the worst but also assume they won't get caught so do whatever anyway
2740 2011-05-15 23:34:52 <Diablo-D3> directhex: why are you asking, anyhow?
2741 2011-05-15 23:35:02 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
2742 2011-05-15 23:35:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124213 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 778 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 18 hours, 33 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 222193.56303748
2743 2011-05-15 23:35:55 <ArtForzZz> probably writing Yet Another Miner(tm)
2744 2011-05-15 23:36:04 sgornick has joined
2745 2011-05-15 23:36:42 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
2746 2011-05-15 23:38:03 <directhex> just tinkering for now.
2747 2011-05-15 23:40:09 <_ape> " assume they won't get caught so do whatever anyway" <-- this is what everybody does with any open source sw theyre modifying for personal use
2748 2011-05-15 23:40:14 <_ape> even corporations
2749 2011-05-15 23:40:16 <_ape> hence lawsuits
2750 2011-05-15 23:40:17 <_ape> lol
2751 2011-05-15 23:40:41 <_ape> same w/ photo stealing from google images
2752 2011-05-15 23:40:54 basic_ed has quit (Quit: basic_ed)
2753 2011-05-15 23:41:45 <directhex> it's easier to plead ignorance when you can say "well I thought it was public domain"
2754 2011-05-15 23:42:09 <ArtForzZz> also, claiming copyright on something that simple is IMO bullshit
2755 2011-05-15 23:42:24 <ArtForzZz> it's just unrolled double-sha256 with as much constants as possible moved out of the inner loop
2756 2011-05-15 23:42:44 <_ape> yeah i wouldnt care enough to go after anyone for stealing something that took me <1day to make anyway
2757 2011-05-15 23:42:52 sytse has joined
2758 2011-05-15 23:42:57 <_ape> like i said if i made something hundreds of people were going to use it might be another story
2759 2011-05-15 23:43:06 Siph0n has joined
2760 2011-05-15 23:44:04 <phantomcircuit> _ape, statutory minimum is 150k USD in the us... which is why people go after each other
2761 2011-05-15 23:45:17 <Nesetalis> hmm interesting.. the Bitcoin's are rebounding again :o
2762 2011-05-15 23:45:25 <sipa> ArtForzZz: copyright does not require innovation, only originality
2763 2011-05-15 23:45:52 <ArtForzZz> sipa: which for pure math is bullshit
2764 2011-05-15 23:46:01 Schematografter has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2765 2011-05-15 23:46:08 <sipa> i completely agree, but i doubt the law does
2766 2011-05-15 23:46:27 <ArtForzZz> hey, I never said IP laws are sane
2767 2011-05-15 23:46:59 <directhex> pure math is even worse. plenty of patented algorithms
2768 2011-05-15 23:47:06 <directhex> just look at the crazy world of codecs
2769 2011-05-15 23:47:16 <ArtForzZz> which is completely batshit insane
2770 2011-05-15 23:47:34 <ArtForzZz> luckily also completely invalid in the civilized world *dons asbestos suit*
2771 2011-05-15 23:50:01 justmoon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2772 2011-05-15 23:50:57 <Diablo-D3> HOLY SHIT
2773 2011-05-15 23:51:13 <Diablo-D3> you can swap the mobo tray and psu box
2774 2011-05-15 23:51:31 <Diablo-D3> so put psu at the top, mobo at the bottom
2775 2011-05-15 23:51:33 <Diablo-D3> all the shit comes off
2776 2011-05-15 23:53:26 <Diablo-D3> actually you know what
2777 2011-05-15 23:53:38 <sipa> ArtForzZz: i believe there is a patent on running data multiple times through a single compression algorithm, to reduce it to arbitrary small size
2778 2011-05-15 23:53:45 <sipa> which is *mathematical* bullshit
2779 2011-05-15 23:53:55 <ArtForzZz> theres several
2780 2011-05-15 23:53:57 <Animeking> hey, whats the bot that guesstimates the tiem it takes
2781 2011-05-15 23:54:01 <Animeking> to get more bc :/
2782 2011-05-15 23:54:04 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
2783 2011-05-15 23:54:05 <ArtForzZz> aka the IP perpetuum mobile
2784 2011-05-15 23:54:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124214 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 777 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 18 hours, 26 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 222059.92405696
2785 2011-05-15 23:54:16 <Diablo-D3> er that was meant for the other channe
2786 2011-05-15 23:54:19 <sipa> Animeking: what's your hashrate?
2787 2011-05-15 23:54:45 <Animeking> 36,000-42,000
2788 2011-05-15 23:54:51 <sipa> khash/s?
2789 2011-05-15 23:54:57 <directhex> geforcetastic.
2790 2011-05-15 23:55:00 <Animeking> yes
2791 2011-05-15 23:55:06 <sipa> mining solo or in a pool?
2792 2011-05-15 23:55:12 <Animeking> solo
2793 2011-05-15 23:55:23 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 39000
2794 2011-05-15 23:55:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 39000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 28 weeks, 4 days, 15 hours, 48 minutes, and 53 seconds
2795 2011-05-15 23:55:35 <Animeking> wow
2796 2011-05-15 23:55:36 <sipa> i'd suggest to either stop mining, or join a pool
2797 2011-05-15 23:55:43 <Animeking> :/
2798 2011-05-15 23:55:47 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 39000
2799 2011-05-15 23:55:48 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 39000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 0.249179013884 BTC per day and 0.0103824589118 BTC per hour.
2800 2011-05-15 23:55:50 <Animeking> i don't really know how to jkoin a pool lol
2801 2011-05-15 23:55:58 <sethsethseth> thinking about ditching pool
2802 2011-05-15 23:56:06 <sethsethseth> with all these dumb stale share problems
2803 2011-05-15 23:56:15 <Animeking> can you explain how pools work though? :/
2804 2011-05-15 23:56:33 <sipa> Animeking: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Pooled_mining
2805 2011-05-15 23:56:33 <Animeking> is the distribution of BC's decided in a pool?
2806 2011-05-15 23:57:22 <directhex> Animeking: distribution is approximately down to your share of the work done for a given block. give or take. so less work in -> less out from the pool
2807 2011-05-15 23:58:47 <directhex> but on a pool multiple blocks are found per day, so you get a little bit of that on an hourlyish basis, rather than getting 50 in one go if you're lucky after 6 months, solo
2808 2011-05-15 23:58:51 jmorton_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2809 2011-05-15 23:59:36 jmorton has joined