1 2011-05-16 00:02:43 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
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   3 2011-05-16 00:03:55 <Animeking> hmm
   4 2011-05-16 00:04:19 <Animeking> though last time I thought about it I owndered if that amount would be greater in that time period than the amount earned solo
   5 2011-05-16 00:04:34 <phantomcircuit> is dns seeding available in the binary on bitcoin.org?
   6 2011-05-16 00:04:34 <Animeking> last time I checked it didn't seem so but right now its seeming a whole lot better
   7 2011-05-16 00:04:37 <Animeking> lol
   8 2011-05-16 00:04:44 <sipa> phantomcircuit: yes
   9 2011-05-16 00:06:24 <Animeking> there seems to be multiple approaches, thus I would assume a lot of pools
  10 2011-05-16 00:06:39 <sipa> there's only a few popular ones
  11 2011-05-16 00:06:40 <Animeking> this is gonna be difficult to choose then lol
  12 2011-05-16 00:06:42 <Animeking> ah
  13 2011-05-16 00:06:50 <sipa> see http://bitcoinwatch.com/
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  22 2011-05-16 00:15:55 <Nesetalis> hmm.. anyone else having problems with bitcoincharts.com? i keep getting 504 error
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  34 2011-05-16 00:47:47 <xelister> back to 7.0
  35 2011-05-16 00:47:48 <xelister> trolo
  36 2011-05-16 00:47:52 <xelister> trololo
  37 2011-05-16 00:47:54 <xelister> trolololo
  38 2011-05-16 00:47:58 <xelister> lo lo lo
  39 2011-05-16 00:47:59 <xelister> lolololol
  40 2011-05-16 00:48:04 <xelister> ho ho ho
  41 2011-05-16 00:48:10 <xelister> trololo trololo trollooooo
  42 2011-05-16 00:48:24 <xelister> troolooooo loooooo.
  43 2011-05-16 00:48:37 * xelister buying low and selling high
  44 2011-05-16 00:50:44 pnicholson has joined
  45 2011-05-16 00:51:39 retinal has joined
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  47 2011-05-16 00:54:30 <_ape> values shooting up
  48 2011-05-16 00:54:56 <Animeking> how do i connect to my bc worker :/
  49 2011-05-16 00:56:19 <xelister> bc worker?
  50 2011-05-16 00:56:35 <Animeking> http://mining.bitcoin.cz/
  51 2011-05-16 00:56:36 <xelister> if he's afroamerican, call up westside jobs inc
  52 2011-05-16 00:56:41 <Animeking> in the faqs
  53 2011-05-16 00:56:42 <luke-jr> Is it intentional that bitcoind dies on SIGHUP?
  54 2011-05-16 00:58:26 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  55 2011-05-16 00:58:41 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, unlikely
  56 2011-05-16 00:58:51 <Nesetalis> -joins xelister in the trolololing and the buyin and sellin-
  57 2011-05-16 00:58:53 <Nesetalis> :P
  58 2011-05-16 00:59:29 davex___ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  59 2011-05-16 01:00:00 <xelister> =)
  60 2011-05-16 01:00:07 <xelister> 7.5 and up
  61 2011-05-16 01:00:41 <phantomcircuit> xelister, there's a giant wall of asks though
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  67 2011-05-16 01:03:41 <Animeking> xelister:  you alive.
  68 2011-05-16 01:04:20 davex__ has joined
  69 2011-05-16 01:07:19 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: there aren't really an relavant config options to re-read
  70 2011-05-16 01:07:26 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: s/an/any
  71 2011-05-16 01:08:09 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: perhaps, but it's annoying when my SSH dies and I find the pool down ;)
  72 2011-05-16 01:08:34 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: prly not the hup killing it
  73 2011-05-16 01:08:42 <luke-jr> it is, I debugged it
  74 2011-05-16 01:08:52 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: really? doesn't do that for me
  75 2011-05-16 01:08:55 vorlov has joined
  76 2011-05-16 01:09:01 <luke-jr> maybe it would work if I used -daemon instead of &
  77 2011-05-16 01:09:31 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: I always start with bitcoind </dev/null >/path/to/log 2>&1; which implies -daemon so ya
  78 2011-05-16 01:10:10 <vorlov> hey guys
  79 2011-05-16 01:10:21 <vorlov> i was wodnering, was anybody sucessful getting a 6990 to work on ubuntu?
  80 2011-05-16 01:10:24 <vorlov> doing mining...
  81 2011-05-16 01:10:54 <xelister> vorlov: it will not work on 11.04 btw
  82 2011-05-16 01:11:05 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: only things in my bitcoin.conf are my rpcallowips and rpcuser/pass
  83 2011-05-16 01:11:26 <vorlov> xelister: will it work on any older versions? 10.10?
  84 2011-05-16 01:11:28 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: only commandline option is -maxconnections
  85 2011-05-16 01:13:56 <xelister> vorlov: yes, on 10.10
  86 2011-05-16 01:14:14 <vorlov> xelister: do you happen to know why it does not work on 11.04?
  87 2011-05-16 01:14:53 <xelister> vorlov: its too new version of kernel afair
  88 2011-05-16 01:16:24 <Apocal> xelister: What's stopping you from using 11.04 and a custom kernel? :)
  89 2011-05-16 01:18:01 <EPiSKiNG> Project today: Get ubuntu mining working
  90 2011-05-16 01:18:18 <EPiSKiNG> can someon help me if I have any questions?
  91 2011-05-16 01:18:19 <xelister> Apocal: quite sure everything else breaks
  92 2011-05-16 01:18:56 <Apocal> xelister: Technically it's possible but seeing how craptastic Ubuntu is, I agree...
  93 2011-05-16 01:20:34 Kiba has joined
  94 2011-05-16 01:23:07 <xelister> MagicalTux: :<
  95 2011-05-16 01:23:17 <xelister> MagicalTux: can you please give [x] remember me option :)
  96 2011-05-16 01:23:22 * xelister hates relogging all the time
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 100 2011-05-16 01:29:30 noagendamarket has quit (Excess Flood)
 101 2011-05-16 01:30:52 <MagicalTux> xelister, as soon as I implement the separate password for withdraws
 102 2011-05-16 01:31:52 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: what happened to US withdraw by direct deposit btw?
 103 2011-05-16 01:32:02 <jrmithdobbs> dwolla makes it obsolete
 104 2011-05-16 01:32:02 noagendamarket has joined
 105 2011-05-16 01:32:10 <jrmithdobbs> 1000/txn limit 0.25 fee
 106 2011-05-16 01:32:23 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: there was no fee for direct deposit
 107 2011-05-16 01:32:31 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: and it didn't require trusting Dwolla
 108 2011-05-16 01:33:14 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: 0.25 is basically no fee if you were xfering enough to be able to do deposits, and dwolla has proven themselves so far imho
 109 2011-05-16 01:33:36 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: so had PayPal when they were as old as Dwolla
 110 2011-05-16 01:33:45 <jrmithdobbs> fair.
 111 2011-05-16 01:34:01 <xelister> MagicalTux: cool
 112 2011-05-16 01:34:02 toffoo has joined
 113 2011-05-16 01:34:16 <xelister> MagicalTux: hm, can I directly transfer USD in my mtgox account to other users account? how?
 114 2011-05-16 01:34:31 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: finally, I bet Dwolla has a contract to sign up
 115 2011-05-16 01:34:33 <MagicalTux> xelister, enable "merchant options" in your account settings
 116 2011-05-16 01:34:40 <luke-jr> [21:25:57] <luke-jr> MagicalTux: what happened to US withdraw by direct deposit btw?
 117 2011-05-16 01:34:40 <MagicalTux> (account settings: click your login name on top of the page)
 118 2011-05-16 01:34:41 <luke-jr> ^
 119 2011-05-16 01:34:45 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: could you just fix the user/password fields so i can use my password storage/encryption method of choice of browser stuff? :(
 120 2011-05-16 01:35:00 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, will be back soon, as soon as I have a company account in US as japanese company (remove all the MSB crap)
 121 2011-05-16 01:35:05 <jrmithdobbs> just change them back to being called username and password ;P
 122 2011-05-16 01:35:11 <MagicalTux> jrmithdobbs, june 1st with the new backend
 123 2011-05-16 01:35:26 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: awesome. you've done nothing but good things since taking over.
 124 2011-05-16 01:35:47 <Animeking> ;;bc,gen 200000
 125 2011-05-16 01:35:48 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 1.27784109684 BTC per day and 0.053243379035 BTC per hour.
 126 2011-05-16 01:35:53 <MagicalTux> jrmithdobbs, that's the goal
 127 2011-05-16 01:35:53 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: after looking at Dwolla's site, I find it highly unlikely I will use their crap anytime soon
 128 2011-05-16 01:36:04 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: it's full of bugs
 129 2011-05-16 01:36:18 <luke-jr> "Terms & Conditions" for instance just shows a blank fake-popup
 130 2011-05-16 01:36:19 <Animeking> err, how many Khash is in a Mhash?
 131 2011-05-16 01:36:25 <Animeking> 1000?
 132 2011-05-16 01:36:27 <luke-jr> Animeking: learn SI or use Tonal :P
 133 2011-05-16 01:36:32 <MagicalTux> Animeking, yes
 134 2011-05-16 01:36:33 <idnar> Animeking: yes
 135 2011-05-16 01:36:35 <Animeking> ah
 136 2011-05-16 01:36:45 <Animeking> luke-jr:  whats that?
 137 2011-05-16 01:36:54 jmorton has quit (Quit: jmorton)
 138 2011-05-16 01:37:00 <luke-jr> Animeking: SI is the decimal unit system; Tonal is base 8*2 numbers+units
 139 2011-05-16 01:37:05 * idnar fetches popcorn
 140 2011-05-16 01:37:09 <Animeking> ah
 141 2011-05-16 01:37:18 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: ya, i've only done a test $60 txn with them so far, i'm a bit on the fence myself
 142 2011-05-16 01:37:33 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: if I can't even read the ToS, I'm not joining
 143 2011-05-16 01:38:36 ntosme2 has joined
 144 2011-05-16 01:38:42 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: what do you mean? http://www.dwolla.org/help/terms-of-use/
 145 2011-05-16 01:39:56 <MagicalTux> I guess luke-jr uses MSIE
 146 2011-05-16 01:40:03 <MagicalTux> :D
 147 2011-05-16 01:40:34 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: no
 148 2011-05-16 01:40:45 <MagicalTux> that was an obvious troll
 149 2011-05-16 01:40:49 <MagicalTux> who uses MSIE ?
 150 2011-05-16 01:40:51 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: the Sign Up page has a broken link to it
 151 2011-05-16 01:41:18 <MagicalTux> anyway dwolla's still pretty much new, I'm the top poster on their forum
 152 2011-05-16 01:41:30 <luke-jr> "Your Dwolla account is tied directly to your Social Security number (personal)"
 153 2011-05-16 01:41:30 <MagicalTux> (probably close to the dwolla staff itself)
 154 2011-05-16 01:41:33 <luke-jr> I'm not giving Dwolla that
 155 2011-05-16 01:41:35 <luke-jr> ever
 156 2011-05-16 01:41:41 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 157 2011-05-16 01:41:53 <luke-jr> SSN is strictly government-only
 158 2011-05-16 01:42:02 <jrmithdobbs> it's technically illegal for them to do that, ya
 159 2011-05-16 01:42:57 <jrmithdobbs> which means their TOS are pretty much invalidated pretty sure
 160 2011-05-16 01:43:00 <luke-jr> "In the event you have unpaid debts or bills with users within the Dwolla system, you agree that those users may use documentation from the Dwolla system to collect those debts."
 161 2011-05-16 01:43:03 <jrmithdobbs> because there's no severability clause
 162 2011-05-16 01:43:06 <jrmithdobbs> wow their lawyers suck
 163 2011-05-16 01:43:09 <luke-jr> how about requiring them to provide a court order too?
 164 2011-05-16 01:43:25 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: that tos wont hold up in court
 165 2011-05-16 01:43:26 <jrmithdobbs> lol
 166 2011-05-16 01:43:41 <luke-jr> "Dwolla may, from time to time, run authorizations on your credit card to insure its validity."
 167 2011-05-16 01:43:42 <luke-jr> f them
 168 2011-05-16 01:44:08 <MagicalTux> you cannot add a credit card on dwolla, can you ?
 169 2011-05-16 01:44:09 <ntosme2> they take credit cards now?
 170 2011-05-16 01:44:18 <MagicalTux> I think it's for the future
 171 2011-05-16 01:44:34 <luke-jr> "You agree that at all times your credit card information on file in the Dwolla system will be current and accurate. "
 172 2011-05-16 01:44:35 <MagicalTux> or from the past, they thought about doing credit cards, but noticed it wouldn't work with their no chargeback thing
 173 2011-05-16 01:44:38 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 174 2011-05-16 01:44:41 <luke-jr> "In the event your Dwolla account balance can not cover any fees or fines you may have incurred, you authorize Dwolla Corp. to charge your credit card on file in the amount of said fees or fines."
 175 2011-05-16 01:45:02 <jrmithdobbs> ya their lawyers are awful, that tos is all fucked up
 176 2011-05-16 01:45:06 lulzplzkthx has joined
 177 2011-05-16 01:45:07 <luke-jr> anyhow, I think I'll steer clear of Dwolla
 178 2011-05-16 01:45:10 <jrmithdobbs> they can't enforce a sigle bit of it
 179 2011-05-16 01:45:19 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: my word is my word.
 180 2011-05-16 01:45:20 <MagicalTux> jrmithdobbs, you didn't see the ToS I got from one of the lawyers I asked from
 181 2011-05-16 01:45:59 <MagicalTux> (never gonna contact that lawyer anymore, he claims to be internet technology specialist but knows nothing)
 182 2011-05-16 01:46:09 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: in america you can't enforce a contract that explicitly includes illegal activities as a condition on one of the parties
 183 2011-05-16 01:46:23 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: basing the account on ssn is illegal.
 184 2011-05-16 01:46:28 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: contract null and void
 185 2011-05-16 01:47:23 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: doesn't matter
 186 2011-05-16 01:47:35 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: my word does not depend on a government putting guns to my head
 187 2011-05-16 01:47:49 <luke-jr> it is valid in its own right, because it is my word
 188 2011-05-16 01:47:55 <jrmithdobbs> mine does when it comes to financial contracts
 189 2011-05-16 01:48:01 <jrmithdobbs> heh
 190 2011-05-16 01:48:13 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, if you want to move money in/out mtgox, you can also request an international transfer
 191 2011-05-16 01:48:34 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: wiring would no doubt cost me fees here
 192 2011-05-16 01:48:44 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: I can probably wait until you get stuff setup
 193 2011-05-16 01:48:45 <jrmithdobbs> other areas not so much. but if you're going to go through the trouble of drawing up and making me agree to a contract and i see obvious loopholes out of said contract it is not my obligation to tell you your lawyers suck.
 194 2011-05-16 01:48:49 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
 195 2011-05-16 01:49:06 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: well, sure, but I don't consider "not enforcable" as a loophole
 196 2011-05-16 01:49:11 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, yep, I sent the documents and they arrived last friday in US (FedEx priority)
 197 2011-05-16 01:49:44 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: i've been fucked a couple times on contract work stuff, so I do. learned that contract law is a place where being as selfish as possible is the only way to go.
 198 2011-05-16 01:49:56 <MagicalTux> I guess US bank account will be up within the next 2~3 weeks
 199 2011-05-16 01:50:25 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: it's kept me from getting sued a few times now. ;)
 200 2011-05-16 01:50:37 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, aren't international wire transfers like $35
 201 2011-05-16 01:50:43 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: once that's done, are there more steps to send direct deposits?
 202 2011-05-16 01:50:50 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: varys by bank ofc
 203 2011-05-16 01:50:51 <jrmithdobbs> (it's also taught me to be more selective about clients.)
 204 2011-05-16 01:50:52 <MagicalTux> phantomcircuit, if you are sending one, it depends on your bank
 205 2011-05-16 01:51:06 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: receiving one usually has a large fee too
 206 2011-05-16 01:51:11 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, I'll have to sign a few contracts and setup an API to have ach done automatically
 207 2011-05-16 01:51:26 <jrmithdobbs> ya it's pretty straight forward just a paperwork nightmare
 208 2011-05-16 01:51:27 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, here in Japan, receiving a wire has a fixed fee of ¥1500, which is waived starting US$100k
 209 2011-05-16 01:51:35 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: do you plan to do anything to comply with the whole anti-gambling stuff?
 210 2011-05-16 01:51:35 <vorlov> is there a way to mine on a ninetendo wee?
 211 2011-05-16 01:51:42 <vorlov> i see someone got a ps3 to play ball
 212 2011-05-16 01:51:45 <luke-jr> vorlov: waste of power
 213 2011-05-16 01:51:54 <jgarzik> luke-jr: what _specifically_ are you referring to?
 214 2011-05-16 01:51:58 <luke-jr> jgarzik: ?
 215 2011-05-16 01:51:59 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: there's nothing for him to comply with. no gambling on mtgox.com not his responsibility outside of that
 216 2011-05-16 01:52:02 <vorlov> luke-jr: is it only a cpu and a low one at that?
 217 2011-05-16 01:52:11 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, I will comply with any regulation that applies to me in Japan
 218 2011-05-16 01:52:16 <jrmithdobbs> ianal obv
 219 2011-05-16 01:52:23 <jgarzik> luke-jr: <luke-jr> MagicalTux: do you plan to do anything to comply with the whole anti-gambling stuff?
 220 2011-05-16 01:52:26 <MagicalTux> (me as in "Tibanne Co. Ltd.")
 221 2011-05-16 01:52:27 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I thought financial institutions had to make sure incoming funds were not possibly gambling in the US?
 222 2011-05-16 01:52:46 <jgarzik> luke-jr: not specifically, no
 223 2011-05-16 01:53:04 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, funds deposited on mtgox are not for the "purpose of gambling", but "purpose of buying bitcoins"
 224 2011-05-16 01:53:04 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: US doesn't recognize btc as a currency anyways so that's another one of those loophole things
 225 2011-05-16 01:53:19 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: it recognizes it as "stored value"
 226 2011-05-16 01:53:23 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: US recognizes bitcoins as "stored value"
 227 2011-05-16 01:53:29 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: oh it does?
 228 2011-05-16 01:53:41 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: got a link? we were trying to figure this out earlier
 229 2011-05-16 01:53:42 <MagicalTux> in Japan it's common practice for pachinko parlors to give you "gold medals", which you can exchange for funds in another company just outside the parlor, but totally unrelated (paper wise)
 230 2011-05-16 01:53:53 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: see BitcoinUSA + FinCEN
 231 2011-05-16 01:53:54 <luke-jr> i c
 232 2011-05-16 01:54:04 <MagicalTux> [10:47:29] <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: US recognizes bitcoins as "stored value" <- in Japan, it's "used goods" at this point
 233 2011-05-16 01:54:34 <luke-jr> "stored value" is equivalent to PayPal balance, correct?
 234 2011-05-16 01:54:48 <jrmithdobbs> aye
 235 2011-05-16 01:54:53 <jgarzik> luke-jr: no.  "stored value"== visa gift card, itunes, MSFT points
 236 2011-05-16 01:55:06 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: thought they classified paypal same as those
 237 2011-05-16 01:55:08 <jgarzik> paypal is essentially a bank; different regs
 238 2011-05-16 01:55:12 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: no
 239 2011-05-16 01:55:27 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: you sure about that? they're not fdic insured and i thought that was required to be considered a bank
 240 2011-05-16 01:55:28 * jgarzik <<--- deep in US regs for past week or so
 241 2011-05-16 01:55:47 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 242 2011-05-16 01:55:55 <sacarlson> I was tolt paypal isn't a bank has no FDIC and doesn't have to follow banking rules
 243 2011-05-16 01:55:57 <luke-jr> did that change recently?
 244 2011-05-16 01:56:01 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: "is essentially"  -- they have to follow AML/KYC, but not FDIC/BSA
 245 2011-05-16 01:56:07 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, paypal is not a bank legally
 246 2011-05-16 01:56:08 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: that's my understanding as well
 247 2011-05-16 01:56:11 <jgarzik> luke-jr: no
 248 2011-05-16 01:56:13 <luke-jr> I noticed PayPal just started nagging me about bank-like regulations
 249 2011-05-16 01:56:15 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: I never said it was
 250 2011-05-16 01:56:16 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, except in europe
 251 2011-05-16 01:56:27 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: which one's aML/KYC?
 252 2011-05-16 01:56:29 lulzplzkthx has joined
 253 2011-05-16 01:56:50 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: do you know what those acronyms mean?
 254 2011-05-16 01:57:00 <jrmithdobbs> first one yes, meant what regs specifically, second no
 255 2011-05-16 01:57:23 <MagicalTux> btw mtgox's ToS will include AML clauses as required in Japan and many countries
 256 2011-05-16 01:57:25 * luke-jr wonders if MTGUSD makes MtGox technically a bank
 257 2011-05-16 01:57:35 <jrmithdobbs> oh kyc is the stupid gambling stuff ok
 258 2011-05-16 01:57:44 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, no, mtgox is closer to an escrow service
 259 2011-05-16 01:58:42 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: ya this whole thing has given me a much higher respect for tax lawyers and accountants
 260 2011-05-16 01:58:47 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: my head has been spinning, ha
 261 2011-05-16 01:58:48 <sacarlson> see that's why we need p2p escrow
 262 2011-05-16 01:58:52 <luke-jr> jgarzik: PayPal doesn't do KYC
 263 2011-05-16 01:58:58 <jgarzik> luke-jr: yes, they do
 264 2011-05-16 01:59:07 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, they do quite often
 265 2011-05-16 01:59:20 <jrmithdobbs> paypal pretty much does whatever law enforcement requests at any given time
 266 2011-05-16 01:59:24 <luke-jr> how?
 267 2011-05-16 01:59:28 <luke-jr> I never gave them my ID
 268 2011-05-16 01:59:28 <MagicalTux> paypal does whatever they want
 269 2011-05-16 01:59:40 wolfspraul has joined
 270 2011-05-16 01:59:44 <jrmithdobbs> i don't think they're bound by all of it, but they do it to cover their ass to sit on people's interest
 271 2011-05-16 01:59:50 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: ya like give the DEA all your money
 272 2011-05-16 01:59:52 <jrmithdobbs> s/ass/ass and/
 273 2011-05-16 02:00:43 <jgarzik> luke-jr: 1) whenever you link w/ a bank, you have linked to an entity that performed KYC.  2) physical address verification.   3) automated phone calls   4) human->human phone calls   5) extensive anti-fraud /AML data analysis, and other gizmo's I won't mention
 274 2011-05-16 02:00:56 <jgarzik> linking accounts gives LE what they need
 275 2011-05-16 02:01:08 <luke-jr> jgarzik: and Unverified PayPal?
 276 2011-05-16 02:01:35 <jgarzik> luke-jr: that's why those accounts have severe limits
 277 2011-05-16 02:01:46 <MagicalTux> paypal takes your SSN
 278 2011-05-16 02:01:47 <jgarzik> luke-jr: so that no large volume of money will move
 279 2011-05-16 02:02:05 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: they don't have mine
 280 2011-05-16 02:02:22 <jrmithdobbs> but then i don't think i've logged into paypal in about 6 years
 281 2011-05-16 02:02:24 <MagicalTux> jrmithdobbs, means your paypal activity is low enough to not trigger extra checks
 282 2011-05-16 02:02:33 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: PayPal does not have my SSN
 283 2011-05-16 02:02:37 <MagicalTux> at some point paypal blocked activity on my company account until I provided them with a lot of stuff
 284 2011-05-16 02:03:19 <MagicalTux> anyway many companies dealing with funds may have to require your SSN to report those funds to IRS, in case you "forget" to declare those
 285 2011-05-16 02:03:28 <sacarlson> jgarzik: what are the limits of an unverified paypaly account?
 286 2011-05-16 02:03:29 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, paypal has a tax id for a company registered to a foreign national, because im a boss like that
 287 2011-05-16 02:03:52 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, not publically acknowledged
 288 2011-05-16 02:03:55 <MagicalTux> phantomcircuit, paypal has a scan of my company's registration proof (in japanese), and a lot of other documentation in japanese :)
 289 2011-05-16 02:04:05 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: wow
 290 2011-05-16 02:04:19 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, lol
 291 2011-05-16 02:04:27 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: so don't ask us but we will tell you
 292 2011-05-16 02:04:34 <MagicalTux> as for Dwolla, they have my EIN
 293 2011-05-16 02:04:35 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, yes
 294 2011-05-16 02:04:55 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, fun right?
 295 2011-05-16 02:05:22 <phantomcircuit> also you cant verify an account unless you are added to it, but they have no problem with people addign themselves as authorized agents online
 296 2011-05-16 02:05:29 <phantomcircuit> it's truly ridiculous
 297 2011-05-16 02:05:47 <sacarlson> MagicalTux: I thought you had a 3rd party do your paypal transactions but I guess they still pay you with paypal?
 298 2011-05-16 02:06:00 <MagicalTux> sacarlson, I use paypal for other businesses than mtgox
 299 2011-05-16 02:06:01 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: so those MtGox changes will require what new information specifically?
 300 2011-05-16 02:06:09 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, none
 301 2011-05-16 02:06:10 <sacarlson> MagicalTux: oh ok
 302 2011-05-16 02:06:12 <phantomcircuit> fucking initial block download is so random
 303 2011-05-16 02:06:25 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, unless you wish to increase your transfer limits, for example
 304 2011-05-16 02:06:31 <jrmithdobbs> so wait, i have to be reading this wrong
 305 2011-05-16 02:06:46 <jrmithdobbs> if btc are a stored value, that means as long as they're held as btc they have no tax burden
 306 2011-05-16 02:07:06 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: what transfer limits now?
 307 2011-05-16 02:07:12 marlowe has joined
 308 2011-05-16 02:07:20 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, $1000/day
 309 2011-05-16 02:07:21 <jrmithdobbs> but on conversion to usd capital gains becomes applicable
 310 2011-05-16 02:07:22 <jrmithdobbs> yes?
 311 2011-05-16 02:07:33 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: ah, ok; so same as before
 312 2011-05-16 02:07:42 <jrmithdobbs> even if no usd was ever spent to purchase the btc in the first place?
 313 2011-05-16 02:07:44 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, yep, as much as possible we do not change existing conditions
 314 2011-05-16 02:07:56 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, i would assume so
 315 2011-05-16 02:08:02 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: if you had to, would you give public notice beforehand?
 316 2011-05-16 02:08:11 <luke-jr> (assuming you were allowed to delay the change)
 317 2011-05-16 02:08:12 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, people doing systematic daily withdraws of $1000/day may however trigger extra stuff, however
 318 2011-05-16 02:08:18 <ntosme2> are there irs reporting requirements for mtgox?
 319 2011-05-16 02:08:28 <EPiSKiNG> stupid question alert:  how do I start Phoenix in ubuntu?
 320 2011-05-16 02:08:31 <MagicalTux> ntosme2, mtgox is run by Tibanne Co. Ltd., a Japanese company
 321 2011-05-16 02:08:32 <jrmithdobbs> ntosme2: not on mtgox because they're not american
 322 2011-05-16 02:08:32 <EPiSKiNG> what do I type?
 323 2011-05-16 02:08:36 <jrmithdobbs> ntosme2: on users i think yes
 324 2011-05-16 02:08:58 <ntosme2> ok, good to know
 325 2011-05-16 02:09:10 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: we've got an appointment with a cpa and tax attorney already so hopefully we can figure it out
 326 2011-05-16 02:09:12 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: are you Satoshi?
 327 2011-05-16 02:09:20 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, lol
 328 2011-05-16 02:09:24 <MagicalTux> that's a nice joke :D
 329 2011-05-16 02:09:24 <jrmithdobbs> lol
 330 2011-05-16 02:09:32 * luke-jr observes MagicalTux did not answer.
 331 2011-05-16 02:09:39 <phantomcircuit> ^ ditto
 332 2011-05-16 02:09:43 <MagicalTux> Ok, so let me answer: I'm not Satoshi
 333 2011-05-16 02:09:53 <noagendamarket> hahah
 334 2011-05-16 02:09:53 <jrmithdobbs> that's exactly what satoshi would say!
 335 2011-05-16 02:09:53 <phantomcircuit> lies
 336 2011-05-16 02:09:54 <phantomcircuit> !
 337 2011-05-16 02:09:55 <jrmithdobbs> you must be satoshi!
 338 2011-05-16 02:09:57 <luke-jr> aww. not sure I believe you though. ;)
 339 2011-05-16 02:09:58 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
 340 2011-05-16 02:10:10 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: it's also what not-Satoshi would say
 341 2011-05-16 02:10:12 <luke-jr> so it tells us nothing
 342 2011-05-16 02:10:22 <jrmithdobbs> hence: ;P
 343 2011-05-16 02:10:37 <phantomcircuit> block download is compeltely stalled
 344 2011-05-16 02:10:44 <phantomcircuit> anybody have thoughts on unstalling it?
 345 2011-05-16 02:10:52 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it's buggy beyond belief. finish the Python implementation already
 346 2011-05-16 02:11:04 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, lol
 347 2011-05-16 02:11:05 <luke-jr> ;)
 348 2011-05-16 02:11:30 <phantomcircuit> my peer connection manager in python is a fucking mess
 349 2011-05-16 02:11:33 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: btw, is QBitcoin dead?
 350 2011-05-16 02:11:41 <phantomcircuit> you'll be connected to 8 peers and then all of a sudden
 351 2011-05-16 02:11:52 <phantomcircuit> BAM connected to all 1.3k connectable
 352 2011-05-16 02:11:53 <MagicalTux> luke-jr, delayed due to crapload of shit to do, dev will resume once I have mtgox support staff hired and trained
 353 2011-05-16 02:11:57 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: OMG I WANT THAT
 354 2011-05-16 02:12:15 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: makes sense
 355 2011-05-16 02:12:29 dirtyfilthy has joined
 356 2011-05-16 02:13:08 <sacarlson> is QBitcoin not open source? what would stop development on it if it wasn't?
 357 2011-05-16 02:13:18 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: i could live with that, where's the source? ;P
 358 2011-05-16 02:13:28 <MagicalTux> sacarlson, I have specific plans for the base, which I do not want people to comment on each time I do a freaking commit
 359 2011-05-16 02:13:53 <luke-jr> :D
 360 2011-05-16 02:14:03 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, if you cant find it you dont deserve it
 361 2011-05-16 02:14:36 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, amusingly there isn't much of a performance issue with being connected to all the peers except that you'll run out of stack space on ulimit restricted accounts
 362 2011-05-16 02:16:56 <phantomcircuit> btw the latest git doesn't build with wx 2.8.11.0
 363 2011-05-16 02:17:02 <phantomcircuit> string conversions are broken
 364 2011-05-16 02:17:39 <phantomcircuit> anybody there?
 365 2011-05-16 02:17:46 <MagicalTux> no
 366 2011-05-16 02:18:14 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it never did
 367 2011-05-16 02:18:34 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: 2.9 required; I think patches welcome to backport to 2.8
 368 2011-05-16 02:18:35 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, oh really?
 369 2011-05-16 02:18:51 <phantomcircuit> interesting
 370 2011-05-16 02:19:21 <phantomcircuit> well that explains that
 371 2011-05-16 02:20:07 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: heh, found it ;P
 372 2011-05-16 02:20:33 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, lol 2.9 is now hardmasked on gentoo
 373 2011-05-16 02:20:33 <sacarlson> why are these wx libs so hard to find in ubuntu?  I can't even find the older ones let alone the new ones
 374 2011-05-16 02:20:35 <phantomcircuit> sigh
 375 2011-05-16 02:20:41 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: will bitcoind build without 2.9?
 376 2011-05-16 02:20:43 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ofc
 377 2011-05-16 02:20:50 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: bitcoind will build without wx ofc
 378 2011-05-16 02:20:54 Siph0n has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 379 2011-05-16 02:20:55 <jrmithdobbs> thought so
 380 2011-05-16 02:20:57 <luke-jr> sacarlson: they suck
 381 2011-05-16 02:21:12 <sacarlson> luke-jr who ubuntu or wx libs?
 382 2011-05-16 02:21:19 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: yes
 383 2011-05-16 02:21:25 <luke-jr> sacarlson: both
 384 2011-05-16 02:21:26 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, true
 385 2011-05-16 02:21:26 <jrmithdobbs> imho
 386 2011-05-16 02:21:34 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: lol ok
 387 2011-05-16 02:21:58 <sacarlson> well I'm a fan of ubuntu so they will always have my support
 388 2011-05-16 02:22:05 <luke-jr> fanboy
 389 2011-05-16 02:22:15 <jrmithdobbs> ubuntu took the concept of debian and summarily ruined it
 390 2011-05-16 02:22:41 <jrmithdobbs> if their security idiots fuck my shit up by convincing debian maintainers to pull their retarded un-thought-out patches I may go on a fucking killing spree.
 391 2011-05-16 02:22:49 <jrmithdobbs> one more time
 392 2011-05-16 02:23:15 <jrmithdobbs> ssh rand issue was ubuntu's fault, writing new code to re-implement (WITH NO WAY TO TURN OFF) env_reset was ubunt's fault
 393 2011-05-16 02:23:18 <jrmithdobbs> etc
 394 2011-05-16 02:23:18 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: ok I have to admit maybe people tend to upgrade to quickly with ubuntu to break things but upgrade is an option not a rule
 395 2011-05-16 02:23:37 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: not when the asshats do as described above.
 396 2011-05-16 02:24:04 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: i don't use ubuntu. I hate them for getting their retardedness committed to debian
 397 2011-05-16 02:24:26 <jrmithdobbs> for instance the insserv init switch is fucking ubuntu's retardedness effecting me.
 398 2011-05-16 02:24:33 <jrmithdobbs> affecting
 399 2011-05-16 02:26:15 <luke-jr> did Debian adopt their retarded Upstart?
 400 2011-05-16 02:26:28 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: debian was my first it was just a bit behind the times and with the growing numbers in ubuntu they had more support.  I'm not very security minded
 401 2011-05-16 02:26:45 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: no they just accept patches from them
 402 2011-05-16 02:26:57 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: they've become MUCH more leary of it since the above mentioned incidents.
 403 2011-05-16 02:27:07 <jrmithdobbs> but the maintainers on some packages overlap
 404 2011-05-16 02:27:24 <EPiSKiNG> anyone had luck running a 6 series and a 5 series card in the same systrem?
 405 2011-05-16 02:27:29 <luke-jr> Upstart is the worst thing ever
 406 2011-05-16 02:27:40 <EPiSKiNG> i'm trying to get a 6990 and a 5970 working in Windows 7, not sure what the best way to attack it is
 407 2011-05-16 02:27:42 <luke-jr> EPiSKiNG: I have no doubt I could do it.
 408 2011-05-16 02:27:48 <luke-jr> LOL Windows
 409 2011-05-16 02:28:04 <Apocal> Why does running bitcoin on my ubuntu 11.04 system result in no GUI? Or am I missing something?
 410 2011-05-16 02:28:07 <jgarzik> luke-jr: indeed
 411 2011-05-16 02:28:28 * EPiSKiNG hangs head
 412 2011-05-16 02:28:32 <sacarlson> Apocal: lack of WX libs I think
 413 2011-05-16 02:28:35 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: i want my production stuff stable. I am fine with backporting/packaging stuff that is not in stable.
 414 2011-05-16 02:28:52 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: if you're not, then testing/sid is for you. Ubuntu literally fills a non-existant use
 415 2011-05-16 02:28:55 <jrmithdobbs> case
 416 2011-05-16 02:29:16 <Apocal> sacarlson: Hmm, ldd on the bitcoin binary shows no missing libs, and the debug output is... unhelpful
 417 2011-05-16 02:29:25 <jrmithdobbs> and their retarded focus on the desktop annoys the ever loving shit out of me
 418 2011-05-16 02:29:32 <luke-jr> Apocal: Ubuntu is retarded.
 419 2011-05-16 02:29:38 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: ya I'm happy with long term releases and just pull ppa when I find a need for it, I'm just to lazy to have to compile everything
 420 2011-05-16 02:29:46 <Apocal> luke-jr: Agreed, nothing I can do here as it's a work pc :(
 421 2011-05-16 02:29:52 <jrmithdobbs> oh your new retarded make based init makes things start faster but env vars set in rc.local are no longer applied to everything afterwards? well fuck you i'd rather start slower.
 422 2011-05-16 02:29:55 <luke-jr> sacarlson: … compiling uses your CPU, not you
 423 2011-05-16 02:30:07 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: (gooing back to earlier convo)   That's my information.  You note the exchange rate at time of BTC acquisition, and owe no taxes until BTC is liquidated to fiat, at which time you owe capital gains.   That's the simplified version, anyway.
 424 2011-05-16 02:30:15 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: it doesn't start faster than init-ng
 425 2011-05-16 02:30:16 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: there are additional IRS barter regs to be aware of
 426 2011-05-16 02:30:29 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: so one cannot simply exist solely on BTC, and expect no taxes
 427 2011-05-16 02:30:53 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: sysv init works and i don't care about startup times (or i'd run runit/daemontools as init and do in a few use cases)
 428 2011-05-16 02:30:54 <sacarlson> luke-jr so I assume you all would be gento fans?
 429 2011-05-16 02:31:14 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: no i use debian. (thought that was obvious)
 430 2011-05-16 02:31:22 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I care about dependencies ;)
 431 2011-05-16 02:31:34 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: professionally i usually get stuck with rhel/centos or suse though
 432 2011-05-16 02:31:59 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: you can do deps with runit you just have to explicitly maintain them. something else i'm ok with doing in the places i use it ;P
 433 2011-05-16 02:32:02 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: that last one was pointed at luke-jr but ok debian, so debian has working wx libs then?
 434 2011-05-16 02:32:10 <luke-jr> yeah, as much as I suggest Debian at people, I usually end up with CentOS/RHEL in production settings
 435 2011-05-16 02:32:16 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: not 2.9. i don't run the gui
 436 2011-05-16 02:32:20 <gdoteof_home> anyway to calculate/guesstimate/lookup the number of nodes on the network?
 437 2011-05-16 02:32:27 <phantomcircuit> sudo mount -t tmpfs -o size=1G tmpfs ~/.bitcoin
 438 2011-05-16 02:32:30 <phantomcircuit> BWAHAHAHAHAH
 439 2011-05-16 02:32:30 <jgarzik> sacarlson: bitcoin requires wx 2.9, which is hard to find, because it's not a stable release
 440 2011-05-16 02:32:35 <jgarzik> sacarlson: best just build from source
 441 2011-05-16 02:32:40 <luke-jr> gdoteof_home: apparently phantomcircuit has a client that connects to every node
 442 2011-05-16 02:33:03 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: every connectable node
 443 2011-05-16 02:33:15 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, so you think ;)
 444 2011-05-16 02:33:34 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: so one per X.X.0.0/255.255.0.0
 445 2011-05-16 02:33:52 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
 446 2011-05-16 02:34:26 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: no, every one is my understanding
 447 2011-05-16 02:34:44 <jrmithdobbs> lets just run it and see! ha
 448 2011-05-16 02:35:08 <sacarlson> gdoteof_home: you can know for sure that there are more nodes on the net the is in #bitcoin IRC
 449 2011-05-16 02:35:39 <gdoteof_home> phantomcircuit: you have an estimate?
 450 2011-05-16 02:35:39 <sacarlson> gdoteof_home: last I checked ran over 3000
 451 2011-05-16 02:35:51 <jrmithdobbs> gdoteof_home: /list #bitcoin
 452 2011-05-16 02:36:06 <jrmithdobbs> err wrong channel, ha
 453 2011-05-16 02:36:16 <phantomcircuit> gdoteof_home, no i dont have timestamps
 454 2011-05-16 02:36:19 <phantomcircuit> which was dumb
 455 2011-05-16 02:36:33 <sacarlson> gdoteof_home: #bitcoin IRC isn't on freenode
 456 2011-05-16 02:36:40 <phantomcircuit> so ~25k ip/port combos in the last month or so
 457 2011-05-16 02:36:41 <phantomcircuit> but
 458 2011-05-16 02:36:43 <phantomcircuit> hem
 459 2011-05-16 02:36:44 <phantomcircuit> meh
 460 2011-05-16 02:37:13 <gdoteof_home> sacarlson: oh.  thanks i was confused
 461 2011-05-16 02:38:20 Moonies has quit (Quit: quack)
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 464 2011-05-16 02:38:57 <phantomcircuit> i also have a small python script that will fill all the available connection slots on every connectable peer
 465 2011-05-16 02:39:00 <phantomcircuit> it's pretty boss
 466 2011-05-16 02:39:01 <phantomcircuit> lol
 467 2011-05-16 02:39:53 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 468 2011-05-16 02:40:31 Moonies has joined
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 470 2011-05-16 02:42:24 <jrmithdobbs> if y'all haven't seen this yet
 471 2011-05-16 02:42:26 <jrmithdobbs> http://launch.is/blog/l019-bitcoin-p2p-currency-the-most-dangerous-project-weve-ev.html
 472 2011-05-16 02:42:32 Apocal has left ("Leaving")
 473 2011-05-16 02:42:33 <jrmithdobbs> pretty well researched article
 474 2011-05-16 02:43:13 <jrmithdobbs> except for the 'your coins cant be tracked bit'
 475 2011-05-16 02:43:47 kermit has joined
 476 2011-05-16 02:44:02 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: wow scary thought
 477 2011-05-16 02:44:05 <forrestv> and the 'We are 100% certain that governments will start banning bitcoins in the next 12 to 18 months.'
 478 2011-05-16 02:44:51 <sacarlson> forrestv: quick sell all your bitcoins and buy #weeds to replace them
 479 2011-05-16 02:45:08 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, i've been saying that it's possible for a while, and i finally realized the only way anybody will care is if someone actually does it
 480 2011-05-16 02:45:12 <phantomcircuit> so im going to do it
 481 2011-05-16 02:45:14 <sacarlson> or #beercoins coming out soon
 482 2011-05-16 02:45:15 <phantomcircuit> prepare for mayhem
 483 2011-05-16 02:45:17 <phantomcircuit> bwahahaha
 484 2011-05-16 02:45:17 <jrmithdobbs> forrestv: aye, it's a bit doom and gloom, but it's surprisingly well researched.
 485 2011-05-16 02:45:34 <forrestv> yeah, i saw it earlier, not bad
 486 2011-05-16 02:46:16 <forrestv> 'Bitcoin is the most dangerous open-source project ever created.' made me laugh
 487 2011-05-16 02:46:26 <jrmithdobbs> i agree with that statement though
 488 2011-05-16 02:46:27 Aahzmundus has joined
 489 2011-05-16 02:46:27 <jrmithdobbs> honestly
 490 2011-05-16 02:47:01 toffoo has quit ()
 491 2011-05-16 02:47:04 <jrmithdobbs> it has the *potential* to do to currency what the internet did to publishing.
 492 2011-05-16 02:47:10 <jrmithdobbs> and that's what he's referring to
 493 2011-05-16 02:47:17 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: indeed, coins are not anon
 494 2011-05-16 02:47:28 bitcoind has joined
 495 2011-05-16 02:47:30 <xelister> but we have the #btcfn project to make them anon
 496 2011-05-16 02:47:39 <xelister> everyone is invited :)
 497 2011-05-16 02:48:52 <jrmithdobbs> well the coins are anon just the entry/exit points are the issue, if we get to a point when entry/exit isn't necessary to use them then they're anon.
 498 2011-05-16 02:48:59 toffoo has joined
 499 2011-05-16 02:49:04 <jrmithdobbs> you can tell where they go but not who's involved
 500 2011-05-16 02:49:34 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: "Sites like 99designs, eLance and oDesk will start accepting bitcoins for payment. If they don’t, they will face competition from folks who do."
 501 2011-05-16 02:49:37 <luke-jr> never heard of any of those
 502 2011-05-16 02:50:02 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: web design auction sites
 503 2011-05-16 02:50:22 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: elance is a (shady) way to pick up cheap programming projects, etc
 504 2011-05-16 02:50:34 <phantomcircuit> really cheap
 505 2011-05-16 02:50:44 <phantomcircuit> you're competing with people who live on dollars a day
 506 2011-05-16 02:50:49 <phantomcircuit> so
 507 2011-05-16 02:50:51 <phantomcircuit> fuck that
 508 2011-05-16 02:51:01 <jrmithdobbs> ya before the indians found it it was actually usable
 509 2011-05-16 02:51:02 <jrmithdobbs> heh
 510 2011-05-16 02:51:05 <_ape> yeah
 511 2011-05-16 02:51:05 <_ape> lol
 512 2011-05-16 02:51:06 caedes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 513 2011-05-16 02:51:14 <_ape> i tried it once, got undercut by some indian conglomerate of coders
 514 2011-05-16 02:51:16 snun23 has joined
 515 2011-05-16 02:51:21 <_ape> who can barely type english
 516 2011-05-16 02:55:56 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: I would love to see this python program above
 517 2011-05-16 02:56:07 caedes has joined
 518 2011-05-16 02:56:22 snun23 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 519 2011-05-16 02:56:38 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, haha i dont think so ;)
 520 2011-05-16 02:56:43 vorlov has joined
 521 2011-05-16 02:56:59 <bk128> jrmithdobbs: which motherboards did you use for your miners?
 522 2011-05-16 02:57:11 <bk128> they were core i3's right?
 523 2011-05-16 02:57:20 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: I think a method that could prevent that would be to have new chains created and distroyed randomly
 524 2011-05-16 02:57:37 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, wat?
 525 2011-05-16 02:57:55 <phantomcircuit> also
 526 2011-05-16 02:57:58 <phantomcircuit> <3 tmpfs
 527 2011-05-16 02:58:06 <jrmithdobbs> bk128: don't remember tbqh and don't have the box handy
 528 2011-05-16 02:58:19 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: it's part of my concept that no one would ever know all the networks that didn't always connect
 529 2011-05-16 02:58:45 <phantomcircuit> i can honestly say i havbe no idea what you're trying to say
 530 2011-05-16 02:58:49 BlueMattBot has joined
 531 2011-05-16 02:59:07 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: what he described isn't exactly hard to implement
 532 2011-05-16 02:59:09 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: I'm saying you can't break my new world order
 533 2011-05-16 02:59:10 <jrmithdobbs> no reason to share that code
 534 2011-05-16 02:59:31 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, it's harder than you'd think
 535 2011-05-16 02:59:33 <bk128> jrmithdobbs: ok.  I just had a guy come to me and say he'd give me some capital to build him some miners.
 536 2011-05-16 02:59:40 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: but it's not always bad to try
 537 2011-05-16 02:59:46 <forrestv> ip transactions use the pubkey, right? not the address (pubkey hash)
 538 2011-05-16 03:00:39 jmorton has joined
 539 2011-05-16 03:00:58 <jrmithdobbs> kitty is very upset with me
 540 2011-05-16 03:01:16 <jrmithdobbs> because i took away her sauna when i created a proper hot/cold aisle setup ;P
 541 2011-05-16 03:01:25 <jrmithdobbs> haha
 542 2011-05-16 03:01:27 <phantomcircuit> lol
 543 2011-05-16 03:01:34 <bk128> would you guys go with 69xx  cards now if you were going to build a bunch of new miners?
 544 2011-05-16 03:02:04 <phantomcircuit> performance of bitcoind degrades pretty noticeably when the number of transactions increases
 545 2011-05-16 03:02:14 <bitcoind> mining is overrated!
 546 2011-05-16 03:02:29 <bitcoind> or overloaded!
 547 2011-05-16 03:02:33 <phantomcircuit> wat
 548 2011-05-16 03:02:59 BlueMatt has joined
 549 2011-05-16 03:03:00 <sacarlson> bk128: there was someone selling a contract that would do that
 550 2011-05-16 03:03:31 <bk128> yeah, but I'd like to do it myself.  I have 2 miners running now with 2 5970s each and one going with a 6970
 551 2011-05-16 03:03:42 <sacarlson> bk128: he mostly hangs out in the bitcoin-otc I forget his nick
 552 2011-05-16 03:03:52 * jgarzik searched and searched for 5970's... no luck
 553 2011-05-16 03:04:12 <bk128> 6990s are probably the best bet then
 554 2011-05-16 03:04:28 <bk128> or 6970s since they'll have a higher resale value
 555 2011-05-16 03:04:39 <bk128> might be building usd 50k worth of miners this month
 556 2011-05-16 03:05:03 <bk128> found a doctor interested in btc
 557 2011-05-16 03:05:51 <sacarlson> bk128: by the time you mine 50k worth bitcoin will be worth much more you might be better off just buying them
 558 2011-05-16 03:05:55 <xelister> bk128: geenthumb?
 559 2011-05-16 03:06:06 <xelister> +r
 560 2011-05-16 03:06:29 <bk128> ;;bc,estimate
 561 2011-05-16 03:06:30 <gribble> 223968.06674218
 562 2011-05-16 03:07:02 <xelister> jgarzik: Im offering for ~625 plus transport. but I guess at that price they are available in usa too?
 563 2011-05-16 03:07:07 <xelister> 625 usd
 564 2011-05-16 03:07:15 <bitcoind> the diff will be ar 400k by the time you build that setup!
 565 2011-05-16 03:07:35 <xelister> bitcoind: lolz?
 566 2011-05-16 03:07:40 <xelister> fuck you diff =)
 567 2011-05-16 03:08:02 <bk128> ;;bc,gend 1400000 223968.06674218
 568 2011-05-16 03:08:02 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1400000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 223968.06674218, is 6.28732369441 BTC per day and 0.2619718206 BTC per hour.
 569 2011-05-16 03:09:02 <bk128> sacarlson: you're telling me mining won't still be profitable in a few months?
 570 2011-05-16 03:09:31 <bk128> then people will stop mining and the difficulty will go down until they're at least breaking even again
 571 2011-05-16 03:09:43 <_ape> you just have to choose how much risk youre willing to love with
 572 2011-05-16 03:09:44 <_ape> live*
 573 2011-05-16 03:09:52 <sacarlson> bk128: it will be a continual reduction in profit over time since max you can produce is 7200 bitcoin per day no mater how much power you put behind it
 574 2011-05-16 03:09:53 <_ape> mining is less risky since you can recoup losses with hardware resale
 575 2011-05-16 03:10:20 <jgarzik> bk128: it will be profitable, yes.  more profitable than simply buying BTC?  probably not...
 576 2011-05-16 03:10:25 <bk128> right.  that's why I'm planning on getting 69xx cards.   Eventually I think it will be a break even situation
 577 2011-05-16 03:10:27 <sacarlson> bk128: 7200 bitcoin is all the whole world can produce
 578 2011-05-16 03:10:34 <bk128> but less risky
 579 2011-05-16 03:10:35 <jgarzik> you'll pay for the hardware
 580 2011-05-16 03:10:38 <jgarzik> probably
 581 2011-05-16 03:10:45 <bk128> sacarlson: I know.  and that will decrease
 582 2011-05-16 03:10:49 <xelister> sacarlson: actually, a huge impulse of power allows you to get up to 2400 or so blocks even in 1 hour
 583 2011-05-16 03:10:55 <bk128> I'm not paying for the hardware :)
 584 2011-05-16 03:11:00 <xelister> but besides that, its like you said
 585 2011-05-16 03:11:03 phantomcircuit has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 586 2011-05-16 03:11:07 <Diablo-D3> http://bitbills.com/
 587 2011-05-16 03:11:07 <xelister> THIEF :-E
 588 2011-05-16 03:11:08 <Diablo-D3> lolwhat
 589 2011-05-16 03:11:09 <bk128> until the difficulty adjusts
 590 2011-05-16 03:11:27 <bk128> wtf
 591 2011-05-16 03:12:33 <xelister> cut the card to take out the private key
 592 2011-05-16 03:12:40 <sacarlson> xelister: so with enuf power then it's best to not run 24/7 just pulse your power to get the best return that might work
 593 2011-05-16 03:13:17 LanceRushing has joined
 594 2011-05-16 03:13:33 <bk128> what size psu for 3 6990s?  or should I go with 2 psus and 4 6990s
 595 2011-05-16 03:14:40 <xelister> 2 PSUs are quite easy to do
 596 2011-05-16 03:15:35 <sacarlson> xelister: no wonder bitcoin net gets slower if the minners use pulse like that they could make some transactions take hours
 597 2011-05-16 03:19:06 acfrazier has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 598 2011-05-16 03:19:06 JunK-Y has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 599 2011-05-16 03:20:01 acfrazier has joined
 600 2011-05-16 03:20:11 <xelister> sacarlson: I doubt anyone uses such pulse thing
 601 2011-05-16 03:20:12 sacarlson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 602 2011-05-16 03:20:23 sacarlson has joined
 603 2011-05-16 03:20:24 <xelister> it would make sense if some 1 person would controll like half the network
 604 2011-05-16 03:20:29 <xelister> but then, he can do other things
 605 2011-05-16 03:20:54 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 606 2011-05-16 03:20:58 sethsethseth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 607 2011-05-16 03:21:47 sethsethseth has joined
 608 2011-05-16 03:22:07 <sacarlson> xelister: I think some of the pools are getting big didn't I read that there is like 2 big pools now?
 609 2011-05-16 03:22:25 phantomcircuit has joined
 610 2011-05-16 03:22:55 mtrlt has joined
 611 2011-05-16 03:23:13 <sacarlson> xelister: I assume the admin of a big pool might have that kind of power to profit from pulses
 612 2011-05-16 03:23:17 sethsethseth_ has joined
 613 2011-05-16 03:26:11 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 614 2011-05-16 03:26:21 <Animeking> is libertyreserve and dwolla trustworthy? :|
 615 2011-05-16 03:26:34 Teslah has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 616 2011-05-16 03:26:40 <Animeking> never heard of dwolla
 617 2011-05-16 03:27:25 dt_ has joined
 618 2011-05-16 03:27:43 <sacarlson> Animeking: for $1000 I'm sure it's safe they have been around for some time.
 619 2011-05-16 03:27:45 <luke-jr> Animeking: I don't trust Dwolla.
 620 2011-05-16 03:28:09 <Animeking> hence why i'm asking lol
 621 2011-05-16 03:28:20 <luke-jr> I don't trust LR either
 622 2011-05-16 03:28:29 <luke-jr> but I *dis*trust Dwolla :p
 623 2011-05-16 03:28:30 dt_ has left ()
 624 2011-05-16 03:28:45 <sacarlson> luke-jr I looked at the dwolla site didn't spend much time researching it why is it bad?
 625 2011-05-16 03:28:53 <sgornick> !bc,wiki dwolla
 626 2011-05-16 03:28:56 <luke-jr> sacarlson: ToS are ridiculous
 627 2011-05-16 03:29:06 <sgornick> ;;pign
 628 2011-05-16 03:29:06 <gribble> I do not know about 'pign', but I do know about these similar topics: 'pool'
 629 2011-05-16 03:29:12 <sgornick> ;;bc,wiki dwolla
 630 2011-05-16 03:29:13 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Dwolla | May 5, 2011 ... A Dwolla account can be funded with electronic debits from a bank account or by receiving a money transfer from another Dwolla member. ...
 631 2011-05-16 03:29:23 <Animeking> Huh
 632 2011-05-16 03:29:41 <sgornick> luke-jr: You don't trust that your money with them is safe?
 633 2011-05-16 03:29:54 <luke-jr> sgornick: I have no money with them, because I will not agree to their terms.
 634 2011-05-16 03:30:12 <Animeking> whats the ToS?
 635 2011-05-16 03:30:17 <Animeking> i mean summarized
 636 2011-05-16 03:30:27 <Animeking> i hate reading ToS because its too long -.-
 637 2011-05-16 03:30:30 <Animeking> usually takes hours
 638 2011-05-16 03:30:34 <sgornick> Animeking: That you give them your personal info and they can do whatever with it.
 639 2011-05-16 03:30:39 <luke-jr> Animeking: they want your super-private info and will never delete it
 640 2011-05-16 03:30:45 <Animeking> eeeek
 641 2011-05-16 03:30:58 <Animeking> and the minimum for libery reserve is 1000?
 642 2011-05-16 03:31:02 <Animeking> or 800 :/
 643 2011-05-16 03:31:03 <sacarlson> Animeking: I'm quite sure I read the Tos and didn't see anything that stuck out at me
 644 2011-05-16 03:31:05 tcoppi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 645 2011-05-16 03:31:41 <luke-jr> for instance, they want your SSN
 646 2011-05-16 03:31:45 <Animeking> ...
 647 2011-05-16 03:31:47 <Animeking> okaaaaaaaaaaay
 648 2011-05-16 03:31:49 <luke-jr> which is supposed to be between you and government only
 649 2011-05-16 03:32:02 <Animeking> maybe i should try and transfer bitcoins into lindens :/
 650 2011-05-16 03:32:20 <sacarlson> luke-jr oh that's a good point
 651 2011-05-16 03:32:55 <xelister> how can guy in USA easiest convert his bitcoins into cash in hand?
 652 2011-05-16 03:33:04 <luke-jr> xelister: PayPal IMO
 653 2011-05-16 03:33:19 <Animeking> :/
 654 2011-05-16 03:33:27 <luke-jr> I think in-person trading needs to take off more tho
 655 2011-05-16 03:33:29 <xelister> or what do you usefags use for person-to-person easy fast payments? in Poland person to person bank wire can take 1 minute .. 1 day and costs 0.2 - 0.5 usd
 656 2011-05-16 03:33:37 <xelister> *usafags
 657 2011-05-16 03:33:47 <luke-jr> xelister: PayPal or cash
 658 2011-05-16 03:33:55 <dirtyfilthy> what does 0/offline mean?
 659 2011-05-16 03:34:02 <luke-jr> dirtyfilthy: exactly what it says
 660 2011-05-16 03:34:02 <xelister> so paypal sounds like best option
 661 2011-05-16 03:34:10 <luke-jr> xelister: covertly
 662 2011-05-16 03:34:12 <sacarlson> luke-jr  I guess I find that almost normal for a bank in the US they always need your SS to open an account, but those are real bank I"m not sure what dwolla is
 663 2011-05-16 03:34:18 <dirtyfilthy> luke-jr: blocks are downloading?
 664 2011-05-16 03:34:27 <xelister> hehe so in USA, you can not exchange money person to person without payfag? lol! =) you banking system is shit
 665 2011-05-16 03:34:31 <luke-jr> dirtyfilthy: no
 666 2011-05-16 03:34:45 <dirtyfilthy> well, they are, so i'm not ofline
 667 2011-05-16 03:34:47 <Animeking> i wonder
 668 2011-05-16 03:34:49 <sacarlson> xelister: you can use ACH in usa
 669 2011-05-16 03:34:54 <luke-jr> xelister: you can wire, but that's not entirely secure, and has huge fees
 670 2011-05-16 03:35:00 <luke-jr> like $10 to send or receive at least
 671 2011-05-16 03:35:06 <xelister> luke-jr: lol @ USA. LOLOLOlol.
 672 2011-05-16 03:35:10 <xelister> sacarlson: what's ach
 673 2011-05-16 03:35:21 khalahan_ has joined
 674 2011-05-16 03:35:25 <luke-jr> sacarlson: ACH is only people <-> business
 675 2011-05-16 03:35:40 <xelister> I ound never suspect usa's banking system is so shitty
 676 2011-05-16 03:35:47 <luke-jr> xelister: oh, and you can tell your bank to mail a check
 677 2011-05-16 03:35:49 <sacarlson> xelister: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_Clearing_House
 678 2011-05-16 03:35:53 <xelister> haha mail a check
 679 2011-05-16 03:36:00 <xelister> the 1900's are calling
 680 2011-05-16 03:36:03 <sacarlson> luke-jr oh well I have one
 681 2011-05-16 03:36:06 <xelister> they want their check in a paper mail back
 682 2011-05-16 03:36:17 <Animeking> :/
 683 2011-05-16 03:37:09 <xelister> Animeking: so I think gaypal is best then
 684 2011-05-16 03:37:16 JunK-Y has joined
 685 2011-05-16 03:37:23 <xelister> yet another reason to leave usa shithole and emigrate hehe =)
 686 2011-05-16 03:37:25 <Animeking> k, I guess I should go with my lindens idea :/
 687 2011-05-16 03:37:28 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 688 2011-05-16 03:37:52 <sacarlson> xelister: it's the least of there problems but I left 8 years ago
 689 2011-05-16 03:38:04 <xelister> sacarlson: good for you o/ where did you go to
 690 2011-05-16 03:38:11 <sacarlson> xelister: thailand
 691 2011-05-16 03:38:17 <xelister> sexytimes
 692 2011-05-16 03:38:34 <xelister> life good there?
 693 2011-05-16 03:38:41 <Animeking> i hate all countries
 694 2011-05-16 03:38:48 <Animeking> They all have something i disagree with
 695 2011-05-16 03:38:54 <luke-jr> xelister: non-USA sucks in so many more important ways
 696 2011-05-16 03:38:55 <xelister> all ~150 ?
 697 2011-05-16 03:38:56 <Animeking> like stricter gun control :T
 698 2011-05-16 03:39:09 <xelister> kazahstan
 699 2011-05-16 03:39:10 <xelister> afghanistan
 700 2011-05-16 03:39:15 <xelister> nigeria
 701 2011-05-16 03:39:17 <xelister> =)
 702 2011-05-16 03:39:18 <Animeking> 1st world countries
 703 2011-05-16 03:39:33 <luke-jr> every single nation except the USA actively usurps parental authority
 704 2011-05-16 03:39:34 <xelister> but some civilized counties do have normal guns policies too afaik
 705 2011-05-16 03:39:36 <bk128> luke-jr: I agree
 706 2011-05-16 03:39:45 <xelister> luke-jr: does what?
 707 2011-05-16 03:39:50 <Animeking> then there is pr0n :|
 708 2011-05-16 03:39:52 <luke-jr> xelister: define 'normal gun policies'
 709 2011-05-16 03:40:03 <xelister> what about porn?
 710 2011-05-16 03:40:11 <xelister> in the Vatican you can fuck 13yo olds if you like
 711 2011-05-16 03:40:15 <luke-jr> xelister: the parents' rights over their children are inalienable. only the USA gives lip service to those rights.
 712 2011-05-16 03:40:20 <Animeking> :/  or the whole pedo hysteria , like it goes as far that even australia tried to ban all imagery of flatchested women naked :/
 713 2011-05-16 03:40:20 <xelister> Trust Story :barney:
 714 2011-05-16 03:40:24 <Animeking> regardless of age
 715 2011-05-16 03:40:30 <Animeking> because it supports 'pedo-tendencies'
 716 2011-05-16 03:40:31 <bk128> you want to live where it's fine to go out in public and fire your automatics in the air?
 717 2011-05-16 03:40:47 <Animeking> actually that sounds like fun D: *wheeeeeee*
 718 2011-05-16 03:40:50 <jrabbit> Saudi Arabia.
 719 2011-05-16 03:40:54 <Animeking> *a bullet falls from the sky and kills me*
 720 2011-05-16 03:40:56 <xelister> bk128: THE DIFF IS 200 K  :-E   *kachachachachachachacha*
 721 2011-05-16 03:41:08 * xelister realoads
 722 2011-05-16 03:41:12 <bk128> ;;bc,difficulty
 723 2011-05-16 03:41:12 <gribble> Error: "bc,difficulty" is not a valid command.
 724 2011-05-16 03:41:13 <luke-jr> bk128: no, but I *do* want to live where heads of households are required by law to carry a gun
 725 2011-05-16 03:41:21 <bk128> that'd be nice
 726 2011-05-16 03:41:24 <jrabbit> luke-jr: LOL.
 727 2011-05-16 03:41:26 <Animeking> what it be nicer
 728 2011-05-16 03:41:29 <luke-jr> bk128: there's a few cities in the USA like that
 729 2011-05-16 03:41:32 <xelister> Switzerland.
 730 2011-05-16 03:41:34 <bk128> south?
 731 2011-05-16 03:41:39 <xelister> Switzerland?
 732 2011-05-16 03:41:39 * jrabbit would love to see the stats on that
 733 2011-05-16 03:41:41 <luke-jr> one in Georgia I think
 734 2011-05-16 03:41:44 <Animeking> if every house hold would need to carry a gun but were trained with gun safety and gun usage :/
 735 2011-05-16 03:41:46 <bk128> I live in chicago.  most ridiculous gun laws ever
 736 2011-05-16 03:41:47 <xelister> Switzerlaaaaand
 737 2011-05-16 03:41:56 <jrabbit> ...
 738 2011-05-16 03:42:04 <sacarlson> bk128:  well it was the last straw when I got thrown in jail in LA for walking outside after 2:00am.  That's what you call freedom?
 739 2011-05-16 03:42:14 <xelister> sacarlson: Trolololol
 740 2011-05-16 03:42:15 phantomcircuit has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 741 2011-05-16 03:42:21 <xelister> in the jail for walking outside in the night!
 742 2011-05-16 03:42:21 <bk128> sacarlson: ???
 743 2011-05-16 03:42:24 <xelister> in the land of the brave
 744 2011-05-16 03:42:30 <xelister> in the land of the  free  :trollface:
 745 2011-05-16 03:42:39 <bk128> I wouldn't do that in LA anyways..
 746 2011-05-16 03:42:45 <xelister> sacarlson: why dont you come back now
 747 2011-05-16 03:42:48 <jrabbit> sacarlson: lol thats a legitimate grievance unlike these gun fetishists
 748 2011-05-16 03:42:50 <luke-jr> jrabbit: they recently celebrated 25 years murder-free
 749 2011-05-16 03:42:51 <xelister> some NIGGER can grope you on the airport
 750 2011-05-16 03:42:55 <luke-jr> http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41196
 751 2011-05-16 03:43:16 <grbgout> well, xelister just earned the ignore list.
 752 2011-05-16 03:43:18 <xelister> and other niggers can then sue you if you said the N- word
 753 2011-05-16 03:43:27 <xelister> grbgout: no problem nigger =)
 754 2011-05-16 03:43:46 <jrabbit> grbgout: I was about to part if I felt the channel wasn't silly enough already lol.
 755 2011-05-16 03:43:46 <xelister> and other niggers - or idiots like grbgout - can then sue you if you said the N- word
 756 2011-05-16 03:43:55 * jrabbit hugs grbgout
 757 2011-05-16 03:44:01 <grbgout> :)
 758 2011-05-16 03:44:06 * Kiba also ignore xelister because he's annoying
 759 2011-05-16 03:44:19 * xelister sends TSA security check to prove Kiba's behindus
 760 2011-05-16 03:44:24 <grbgout> hey Kiba, how's the game dev comin' along?  Any success with crowd sourcing?
 761 2011-05-16 03:44:28 <xelister> wait, damn nypos
 762 2011-05-16 03:44:29 * luke-jr ignores xelister just cuz it seems fun
 763 2011-05-16 03:44:29 <grbgout> er, crowd funding rather
 764 2011-05-16 03:44:30 <Kiba> nope.
 765 2011-05-16 03:44:31 * xelister sends TSA niggers check to prove Kiba's behindus
 766 2011-05-16 03:44:41 <xelister> *probe.   ... I can't spell.
 767 2011-05-16 03:44:43 <grbgout> Kiba: have you seen the opengameart.org site?  I think that's the URL.
 768 2011-05-16 03:44:45 <grbgout> luke-jr: lol
 769 2011-05-16 03:44:46 <xelister> :)
 770 2011-05-16 03:44:48 <Kiba> grbgout: I guess I'll have to start over again with a new fund raising target
 771 2011-05-16 03:45:59 <bk128> has anyone ever built a quad 6990 miner?
 772 2011-05-16 03:48:14 <jgarzik> bk128: a bit of a mess with heat and power
 773 2011-05-16 03:48:19 <jgarzik> bk128: it's possible, of course
 774 2011-05-16 03:48:27 <grbgout> huh, when did the section on establishments that accept donations in bitcoins get removed from the trade page?
 775 2011-05-16 03:48:32 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 776 2011-05-16 03:48:50 <jgarzik> grbgout: moved, or removed?  That would be worth searching history to find out what happened...
 777 2011-05-16 03:49:00 <bk128> jgarzik: I'd be using 2x 1000w psus and a case like art's
 778 2011-05-16 03:49:09 <grbgout> jgarzik: yeah, I'll check in a moment.
 779 2011-05-16 03:49:17 <grbgout> Kiba: have you seen this, http://opengameart.org/ could help you.
 780 2011-05-16 03:49:27 <bk128> wood box with a bunch of fans
 781 2011-05-16 03:51:06 <grbgout> jgarzik: looks like someone named Erik731 removed it in Revision as of 22:17, 13 May 2011
 782 2011-05-16 03:51:48 Netsniper has joined
 783 2011-05-16 03:52:43 bitcoind has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 784 2011-05-16 03:52:49 <Kiba> grbgout: I don't need that. I just need enough money and a place to work on the game
 785 2011-05-16 03:52:55 <grbgout> unless I'm reading it wrong....
 786 2011-05-16 03:53:06 <grbgout> I think I'm reading the history wrong.
 787 2011-05-16 03:53:07 <Kiba> well, cash reserve
 788 2011-05-16 03:54:07 phantomcircuit has joined
 789 2011-05-16 03:54:35 xelister is now known as some_nigg3r
 790 2011-05-16 03:54:49 <some_nigg3r> luke-jr: lol, usa does not impose parentall controll?
 791 2011-05-16 03:54:50 LanceRushing has quit (Quit: LanceRushing)
 792 2011-05-16 03:54:53 <some_nigg3r> just read article
 793 2011-05-16 03:55:02 <some_nigg3r> USA judge ordered mother with cancer to give up her children because she has cancer
 794 2011-05-16 03:55:14 <luke-jr> some_nigg3r: USA gives lip service.
 795 2011-05-16 03:55:16 <some_nigg3r> nooo wait. ha. not usa. UK :)
 796 2011-05-16 03:55:20 <kreal-> wood box with a bunch of fans  pictures? :)
 797 2011-05-16 03:55:21 <Diablo-D3> http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/boingboing/iBag/~3/uRHgWeMe2xw/bitcoin-a-new-peer-t.html
 798 2011-05-16 03:55:22 <luke-jr> some_nigg3r: other countries don't even do that
 799 2011-05-16 03:55:22 <Diablo-D3> BONK
 800 2011-05-16 03:55:24 <Diablo-D3> OH YEAH
 801 2011-05-16 03:55:27 <Diablo-D3> YEAH YEAH YEAH
 802 2011-05-16 03:55:33 <Diablo-D3> HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT CHUCKLENUTS
 803 2011-05-16 03:55:45 <luke-jr> some_nigg3r: other countries outright flaunt parental authority
 804 2011-05-16 03:56:07 <grbgout> Okay, scratch that, it wasn't Erik731
 805 2011-05-16 03:56:37 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
 806 2011-05-16 03:56:43 * some_nigg3r strip searches grbgout's mom on the airport - Wellcome to USA, fellin my... 'democracy' yet:> ?
 807 2011-05-16 03:56:51 <Diablo-D3> going to bed, night all
 808 2011-05-16 03:56:54 <some_nigg3r> bye Diablo-D3
 809 2011-05-16 03:56:58 some_nigg3r is now known as xelister
 810 2011-05-16 03:57:10 <grbgout> Oh, pff, duh: " 08:15, 15 May 2011 ThomasV (Talk | contribs) (29,437 bytes) (separate donations from trade)"
 811 2011-05-16 03:59:22 <grbgout> Kiba: why can't you work on the game where you are?
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 823 2011-05-16 04:17:27 <jlewis> BlueMatt: ping? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/226
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 830 2011-05-16 04:31:56 <vorlov> do you guys know if there is a compiled version of bitcoind with sipa's import/dump privkey
 831 2011-05-16 04:31:57 <vorlov> ?
 832 2011-05-16 04:38:40 Miner123 has joined
 833 2011-05-16 04:39:13 <Miner123> anyone know how to fix that 3GPU bug in windows?
 834 2011-05-16 04:39:25 <Miner123> i have 2 5970 installed and it only is showing 3 GPUs
 835 2011-05-16 04:39:41 warpi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 836 2011-05-16 04:40:00 <gjs278> do you have plugs on each one
 837 2011-05-16 04:40:24 <Miner123> i have 2 monitors connected
 838 2011-05-16 04:40:27 <Miner123> one on each card
 839 2011-05-16 04:41:43 <taco_the_paco> er, not sure if im right, but i remember someone saying that you need linux, i could be very wrong thouh
 840 2011-05-16 04:42:10 <taco_the_paco> though*
 841 2011-05-16 04:42:49 <Miner123> all 4 GPUs show up in device manager/CCC/Afterburner
 842 2011-05-16 04:42:54 <Miner123> but not in GUIMiner
 843 2011-05-16 04:42:58 Herodes has joined
 844 2011-05-16 04:43:01 <Miner123> or phoenix
 845 2011-05-16 04:47:11 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 846 2011-05-16 04:47:16 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 847 2011-05-16 04:49:33 Miner123 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 848 2011-05-16 04:50:44 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * re22420ec365f supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/GPG/ (plugin.py test.py): GPG: when nested, ident just returns registered username upon success. http://tinyurl.com/3q6wlsz
 849 2011-05-16 04:52:29 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
 850 2011-05-16 04:52:30 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.85,"low":6.2,"vol":22196,"buy":7.0501,"sell":7.489,"last":7.0501}}
 851 2011-05-16 04:54:24 anenigma has joined
 852 2011-05-16 04:56:21 <anenigma> Getting http://pastebin.ca/2060832 (suffix or operands invalid for pop/push on 64bit CPU running gcc 4.4.5), been hinted that my gcc assembler needs updating maybe?
 853 2011-05-16 04:58:54 <andrew12> holy moly
 854 2011-05-16 05:02:16 devon_hillard has joined
 855 2011-05-16 05:06:27 ntosme2 has joined
 856 2011-05-16 05:11:29 <_ape> have you guys noticed your cards throttling at 84c?
 857 2011-05-16 05:11:34 <_ape> just wondering if that is normal behavior
 858 2011-05-16 05:11:43 <_ape> mine keep dropping to 90-95%
 859 2011-05-16 05:12:23 <xelister> ArtForzZz: how much are you overall investing into asic?
 860 2011-05-16 05:12:32 <_ape> think he is moving to fpgas now
 861 2011-05-16 05:21:13 Jere has joined
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 867 2011-05-16 05:31:21 <EPiSKiNG> anyone know how to fix the 4th GPU thing??
 868 2011-05-16 05:37:10 m00p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 869 2011-05-16 05:37:37 tcoppi has joined
 870 2011-05-16 05:38:44 sparrW has joined
 871 2011-05-16 05:39:03 <sparrW> any tips on finding all the appropriate libraries/headers to build or run bitcoin on a RHEL5 machine?
 872 2011-05-16 05:40:56 <sparrW> it seems to mix very old stuff (glibc 2.7) with very new stuff (boost > 1.41)
 873 2011-05-16 05:41:13 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
 874 2011-05-16 05:41:14 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.98,"low":6.2,"vol":26511,"buy":7.1325,"sell":7.3499,"last":7.1664}}
 875 2011-05-16 05:44:44 LanceRushing has joined
 876 2011-05-16 05:49:35 <sparrW> perhaps have BTC to trade for compiling assistance
 877 2011-05-16 05:50:04 <sparrW> note to self: check if old BTC were backed up. regardless, be sure to back up new ones.
 878 2011-05-16 05:50:43 SomeGuy has joined
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 880 2011-05-16 05:53:39 <jgarzik> I think bitcoin.org is getting slashdotted.
 881 2011-05-16 05:53:49 <jgarzik> metaphorically, speaking
 882 2011-05-16 05:53:57 <_ape> more likely ddos'd
 883 2011-05-16 05:53:58 <jrmithdobbs> was about to say
 884 2011-05-16 05:54:05 <_ape> its been lagging for like 15 min
 885 2011-05-16 05:54:15 <jrmithdobbs> heh, /. hasn't had the viewership for it to be able to do that to sites in 5+ years
 886 2011-05-16 05:55:17 <dissipate> what's going on?? major DDOS?
 887 2011-05-16 05:55:51 an20 has joined
 888 2011-05-16 05:57:14 <gjs278> it's on the front page of reddit right now
 889 2011-05-16 05:57:20 <gjs278> there's a huge article calling bitcoin dangerous
 890 2011-05-16 05:57:25 <jrmithdobbs> ah
 891 2011-05-16 05:57:28 <gjs278> and the commenters in the thread are dumb as hell
 892 2011-05-16 05:57:32 <jrmithdobbs> that article finally hit reddit
 893 2011-05-16 05:57:47 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: that's reddit for you.
 894 2011-05-16 05:57:49 <gjs278> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/hc63x/bitcoin_p2p_currency_the_most_dangerous_project/
 895 2011-05-16 05:58:07 <dissipate> i don't see it on the front page
 896 2011-05-16 05:58:35 <gjs278> IŽm no Crypto expert, but study p2p algorithms. This bitcoin system have flaws everywhere. It assumes that the majority of nodes are trust-ables, but with some power you can craft a lot of attacks into it.
 897 2011-05-16 05:58:37 <gjs278> Bitcoin is the stupidest thing i ever heard.
 898 2011-05-16 05:58:38 <gjs278> that's a comment
 899 2011-05-16 05:58:39 <Optimo> buttfuckers
 900 2011-05-16 05:58:42 <gjs278> you have to have technology subbed
 901 2011-05-16 05:58:52 <Nesetalis> bitcoin's got boingboinged
 902 2011-05-16 05:59:44 <sparrW> I ran bitcoind for a while on my debian box, and was hoping to put a cluster i've got access to to use, but getting it running on RHEL seems like a royal PITA
 903 2011-05-16 05:59:55 <dissipate> any publicity is good publicity in my book
 904 2011-05-16 06:00:27 <Nesetalis> aye gjs278, the comments are pretty sad :p but the publicity is doing bitcoin good.
 905 2011-05-16 06:00:32 <gjs278> yeah
 906 2011-05-16 06:00:42 <gjs278> 9000 derps won't use it, 1 guy will start
 907 2011-05-16 06:00:59 <sparrW> when i confirm i've got some BTC at home, I'll be back to offer to trade for some compiling help
 908 2011-05-16 06:01:01 mmoya has joined
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 910 2011-05-16 06:02:17 <noagendamarket> someone should write an article about the era before the central bank where they said "central banks are the most dangerous project weve ever seen "
 911 2011-05-16 06:02:23 <noagendamarket> lol
 912 2011-05-16 06:02:25 <Nesetalis> come on market... climb a little higher :D -pokes it with a stick-
 913 2011-05-16 06:02:30 <noagendamarket> I bet there are heaps
 914 2011-05-16 06:03:19 <EPiSKiNG> anyone know how to fix my dual 5970 rig
 915 2011-05-16 06:03:32 <EPiSKiNG> it's only showing 3 GPUs in poclbm/guiminer/phoenix
 916 2011-05-16 06:03:33 <Nesetalis> -offers EPiSKiNG a hammer-
 917 2011-05-16 06:03:41 <EPiSKiNG> but shows all 4 in device manager
 918 2011-05-16 06:03:41 <jrmithdobbs> those comments make my head hurt
 919 2011-05-16 06:03:54 <EPiSKiNG> and in afterburner
 920 2011-05-16 06:04:20 <jrmithdobbs> problem spotted: windows
 921 2011-05-16 06:04:21 LanceRushing has quit (Quit: LanceRushing)
 922 2011-05-16 06:04:28 <gjs278> EPiSKiNG doo you have plugs on all 4 dvi ports
 923 2011-05-16 06:04:41 <gjs278> because on my 5970 I can't break the crossfire with only one plug
 924 2011-05-16 06:04:52 <gjs278> I get hardware failed whenever I try to use core 2
 925 2011-05-16 06:04:58 <EPiSKiNG> hrm
 926 2011-05-16 06:05:02 <gjs278> and gpu-z reports my 5970 as crossfired
 927 2011-05-16 06:05:06 <gjs278> just something to try out at least
 928 2011-05-16 06:05:11 <gjs278> if you have 4 monitors that is lol
 929 2011-05-16 06:05:16 <gjs278> otherwise you have to do the fake plugs
 930 2011-05-16 06:05:24 <EPiSKiNG> i have dummy plugs
 931 2011-05-16 06:05:35 <EPiSKiNG> and i tried filling every plug
 932 2011-05-16 06:05:38 <EPiSKiNG> not working
 933 2011-05-16 06:05:41 <gjs278> dang
 934 2011-05-16 06:05:59 <gjs278> I need those plugs for when I came
 935 2011-05-16 06:06:08 <gjs278> losing $2 an hour isn't fun
 936 2011-05-16 06:06:10 <gjs278> game*
 937 2011-05-16 06:07:19 <EPiSKiNG> i have 11.5 drivers installed
 938 2011-05-16 06:07:26 <EPiSKiNG> it's actually a 6990 and a 5970
 939 2011-05-16 06:07:42 <EPiSKiNG> and i don't see an option in the control panel to disable crossfire
 940 2011-05-16 06:07:47 <EPiSKiNG> i have the cable attached
 941 2011-05-16 06:08:00 <jrmithdobbs> why do you have the cable attached
 942 2011-05-16 06:08:23 <EPiSKiNG> with a 6990 and a 5970
 943 2011-05-16 06:08:33 <jrmithdobbs> ya try without the cable
 944 2011-05-16 06:08:40 <EPiSKiNG> trying
 945 2011-05-16 06:09:08 <netxshare> episking I have that problem before
 946 2011-05-16 06:09:17 <netxshare> switch the cards around
 947 2011-05-16 06:09:26 <EPiSKiNG> in the slots?
 948 2011-05-16 06:09:27 <netxshare> uninstall the drivers
 949 2011-05-16 06:09:33 <netxshare> then run driver sweeper
 950 2011-05-16 06:09:42 <netxshare> then reinstall 11.5
 951 2011-05-16 06:09:52 <netxshare> you are on windows correct?
 952 2011-05-16 06:10:18 <EPiSKiNG> yep
 953 2011-05-16 06:10:33 <EPiSKiNG> ok, so no crossfire, 6990 on bottom, 5970 on top
 954 2011-05-16 06:10:55 <netxshare> give it a shot
 955 2011-05-16 06:10:58 <EPiSKiNG> thank you for your help
 956 2011-05-16 06:11:00 <netxshare> windows is just a pain in the ass
 957 2011-05-16 06:11:08 <netxshare> it took me a while to get dual 5970s working
 958 2011-05-16 06:11:16 <EPiSKiNG> i'll send some BTC when i get it going
 959 2011-05-16 06:11:32 <EPiSKiNG> i'm 6990 and 59709
 960 2011-05-16 06:12:47 <netxshare> what psu do you have?
 961 2011-05-16 06:13:13 <EPiSKiNG> Cooler Master Pro Silent Pro Gold 1200W
 962 2011-05-16 06:13:21 <netxshare> okay
 963 2011-05-16 06:15:37 <netxshare> are you using two monitors or a dummy vga?
 964 2011-05-16 06:16:45 <EPiSKiNG> HDMI on the 6990, and dummy on the 5970
 965 2011-05-16 06:16:52 <xelister> hmm
 966 2011-05-16 06:16:55 <xelister> many usafags in http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/hc63x/bitcoin_p2p_currency_the_most_dangerous_project/
 967 2011-05-16 06:17:12 <xelister> scared by their big brother into "oh noez it may be illegaaall" what the hel..
 968 2011-05-16 06:17:14 <jrmithdobbs> that comment thread is absolute trash, ha
 969 2011-05-16 06:17:19 <xelister> I thought reddit consists of smart people
 970 2011-05-16 06:17:24 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
 971 2011-05-16 06:17:34 <jrmithdobbs> have you met the internet? what made you think that?
 972 2011-05-16 06:17:40 <xelister> although even people here like jgarzik say stupid shit like "freenet is for cp" heh
 973 2011-05-16 06:17:52 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: not all places in internet are the same ;) ?
 974 2011-05-16 06:17:55 <jrmithdobbs> it isn't?
 975 2011-05-16 06:18:00 <jrmithdobbs> (re: freenet)
 976 2011-05-16 06:18:29 <xelister> sigh
 977 2011-05-16 06:18:49 <xelister> 100% child porn happens in real life
 978 2011-05-16 06:18:51 <xelister> ban penises?
 979 2011-05-16 06:19:06 <jrmithdobbs> next you'll say tor has legit uses
 980 2011-05-16 06:19:07 <xelister> like 1% of CP happes in freenet, and 0% is made there
 981 2011-05-16 06:19:58 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: bet all the imprisoned/killed human rights activists from china wished they had uses i
 982 2011-05-16 06:20:00 <xelister> it
 983 2011-05-16 06:20:19 <jrmithdobbs> wouldn't have helped
 984 2011-05-16 06:20:29 <jrmithdobbs> chines gov doesn't exactly require "evidence"
 985 2011-05-16 06:20:41 <xelister> and they would go arrest /who/ ?
 986 2011-05-16 06:20:51 <jrmithdobbs> the ones who show up at the rallies
 987 2011-05-16 06:20:54 <jrmithdobbs> obviously
 988 2011-05-16 06:21:01 <vorlov> do ati drivers require an XServer on an ubuntu installation to work for mining?
 989 2011-05-16 06:21:01 <jrmithdobbs> that's pretty much who they've arrested as is
 990 2011-05-16 06:21:05 <xelister> and the guys that commented online would be not imprisoned
 991 2011-05-16 06:21:16 <xelister> vorlov: yes
 992 2011-05-16 06:21:26 <vorlov> thanks xelister
 993 2011-05-16 06:21:43 <_ape> is it normal for Xorg to use like 20% cpu on a sempron during mining?
 994 2011-05-16 06:21:46 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: and the poor bloggers in USA would not be sued/arrested for using freedom of speach
 995 2011-05-16 06:21:48 <xelister> _ape: yeap
 996 2011-05-16 06:22:00 <_ape> k
 997 2011-05-16 06:22:02 <vorlov> xelister: do u guys use the ubuntu desktop or server addition? if its the latter, did u just install the minimal X packages required
 998 2011-05-16 06:22:02 <_ape> just wondering heh
 999 2011-05-16 06:22:09 <_ape> i have a hunch its cause of -f 1 :P
1000 2011-05-16 06:22:17 <_ape> wasting cpu trying to catch up or something
1001 2011-05-16 06:22:20 <xelister> vorlov: doubt there is big diff.. just apt saerch Xorg
1002 2011-05-16 06:22:28 <vorlov> ok
1003 2011-05-16 06:22:33 <_ape> vorlov: if you want to go minimal try tinycorelinux
1004 2011-05-16 06:22:34 <_ape> thats what im using
1005 2011-05-16 06:22:42 <_ape> its <200mb if you delete unnecessary stuff after building fglrx/etc
1006 2011-05-16 06:22:48 <_ape> boots in <30sec over lan
1007 2011-05-16 06:23:03 <vorlov> i dont mind the size
1008 2011-05-16 06:23:21 <_ape> i would have used debian but the docs on debian live are kinda bad
1009 2011-05-16 06:23:32 <_ape> seems like most people are using usb sticks
1010 2011-05-16 06:24:02 <_ape> w/ ubuntu or fedora
1011 2011-05-16 06:24:54 <netxshare> lol that massAPI thread is still going
1012 2011-05-16 06:25:04 <vorlov> really? everybody uses usb live verion?
1013 2011-05-16 06:25:04 <_ape> hahaha
1014 2011-05-16 06:25:14 <_ape> from what i saw on the forums nobody is using lan booting
1015 2011-05-16 06:25:18 <_ape> like 1 person mentioned it
1016 2011-05-16 06:25:20 <_ape> i know artforz uses it
1017 2011-05-16 06:25:39 <netxshare> pxe forever
1018 2011-05-16 06:25:43 <_ape> the forums seem to be like 50% ocforums idiots using 1.5tb hard drives in mining rigs though
1019 2011-05-16 06:25:51 <netxshare> lol
1020 2011-05-16 06:25:52 <_ape> so i dont know
1021 2011-05-16 06:25:53 <_ape> lol
1022 2011-05-16 06:26:05 <jgarzik> gPXE supports HTTP booting
1023 2011-05-16 06:26:06 <netxshare> and phase cooling!
1024 2011-05-16 06:26:36 <_ape> this damn card keeps dropping to 90-95%
1025 2011-05-16 06:26:38 <_ape> its only at 82.5c
1026 2011-05-16 06:26:39 <_ape> what the hell
1027 2011-05-16 06:26:48 <netxshare> --- Current Pool Stats ---
1028 2011-05-16 06:26:49 <netxshare> Current Block: 124288 Work Started: 2011-05-16T04:13:11.185374 Work Time: 02:06:50 Shares: 257645 GetWork: 80 Hash Rate: 145430.00 MH/s Miners: 240
1029 2011-05-16 06:26:51 <_ape> i wish i could check vrm temps
1030 2011-05-16 06:26:53 <_ape> with aticonfig
1031 2011-05-16 06:26:57 <netxshare> yeah
1032 2011-05-16 06:27:05 <_ape> are you able to check the other temp sensors with adl?
1033 2011-05-16 06:27:05 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: tftp has supported >36M files for a decade so who cares ;P
1034 2011-05-16 06:27:11 <netxshare> I was just wondering that ape
1035 2011-05-16 06:27:18 <_ape> there are like 3 or 4
1036 2011-05-16 06:27:21 <_ape> that i can see in gpuz
1037 2011-05-16 06:27:21 <netxshare> only thing I have seen that does it is gpu-z
1038 2011-05-16 06:27:31 <gmaxwell> We're getting a person or two a day coming into #bitcoin with reports like "I've been waiting an hour and my fountain money hasn't shown up" and it turns out that the are only on block 8000 or so. Sort of a bad user expirence.
1039 2011-05-16 06:27:46 <_ape> yeah downloading the block chain takes forever
1040 2011-05-16 06:27:47 <jgarzik> pointless to maintain a tftp server when there are better file serving mechanisms already existing on the network
1041 2011-05-16 06:27:57 <_ape> it should just include the block chain in the client dl
1042 2011-05-16 06:27:57 <_ape> imo
1043 2011-05-16 06:28:07 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: need that partial block client ;P
1044 2011-05-16 06:28:18 <_ape> ah so its already in the works? :P
1045 2011-05-16 06:28:19 <jgarzik> _ape: http://bitcoin.bluematt.me/bitcoin-nightly/blockchain-nightly/
1046 2011-05-16 06:28:21 <jgarzik> or http://yyz.us/bitcoin/block-db-94000.tar.bz2
1047 2011-05-16 06:28:22 wting has joined
1048 2011-05-16 06:28:29 <_ape> yeah, but in the client so newbies dont go wtf
1049 2011-05-16 06:28:31 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: you know, that theorhetical one that everyone keeps talking about but nobody is implementing
1050 2011-05-16 06:28:36 <_ape> lol
1051 2011-05-16 06:29:05 <_ape> if theyre on like free wifi or something its gonna take forever to dl that
1052 2011-05-16 06:29:10 <_ape> otherwise
1053 2011-05-16 06:29:13 <jrmithdobbs> _ape: i think the android/iphone apps available do it
1054 2011-05-16 06:29:28 <jgarzik> _ape: that's true regardless of implementation
1055 2011-05-16 06:29:42 <jgarzik> _ape: you cannot avoid downloading the block chain _sometime_, at present
1056 2011-05-16 06:29:42 <_ape> yeah but the network isnt gonna use 100% of their downstream to grab it
1057 2011-05-16 06:29:52 <_ape> whereas dling it over http they have a better chance at least
1058 2011-05-16 06:30:05 <jgarzik> hence the HTTP URLs above
1059 2011-05-16 06:30:21 <_ape> yeah
1060 2011-05-16 06:30:42 <_ape> most people arent even comfortable going into %appdata% or wherever the hell its stored
1061 2011-05-16 06:30:43 <_ape> so..
1062 2011-05-16 06:31:01 <jrmithdobbs> _ape: hence, what i said
1063 2011-05-16 06:31:05 <_ape> yeah i know
1064 2011-05-16 06:31:42 <jrmithdobbs> getting a lot of press when not really ready for joe the plumber users is always fun growing pains of anything
1065 2011-05-16 06:31:45 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
1066 2011-05-16 06:31:46 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1067 2011-05-16 06:32:04 <_ape> yeah
1068 2011-05-16 06:32:11 Herodes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1069 2011-05-16 06:32:11 <_ape> you know shit is wrong when random people are asking you how to bittorrent/etc
1070 2011-05-16 06:32:42 <_ape> then you wind up with people whining to their isps "hay my pages are taking a year to load!!" and they have 500 torrents unknowingly seeding, lol
1071 2011-05-16 06:33:12 <jgarzik> the client isn't meant for the masses
1072 2011-05-16 06:33:18 <jgarzik> that's what websites are for
1073 2011-05-16 06:33:19 <jrmithdobbs> wouldn't know about that. i figured out how to avoid helping people who aren't paying me with computers a long long time ago ;P
1074 2011-05-16 06:33:30 <jgarzik> an mtgox or mybitcoin user does not need to download anything
1075 2011-05-16 06:33:40 <_ape> haha i'm envious jrmithdobbs
1076 2011-05-16 06:33:43 <jrmithdobbs> aye
1077 2011-05-16 06:33:52 <_ape> i havent moved to full hermit yet :(
1078 2011-05-16 06:33:59 <jrmithdobbs> _ape: it's simple. stop being a pussy nerd and say no or demand a fair rate a few times
1079 2011-05-16 06:34:04 <jrmithdobbs> _ape: they stop.
1080 2011-05-16 06:34:07 <_ape> hahaha
1081 2011-05-16 06:34:13 <jrmithdobbs> not joking.
1082 2011-05-16 06:34:16 <_ape> i know
1083 2011-05-16 06:34:50 <jrmithdobbs> step number one to making this happne: realise that no matter what you think that girl is not going to sleep with you for fixing her computer
1084 2011-05-16 06:34:58 <jrmithdobbs> the rest falls into place.
1085 2011-05-16 06:35:23 <_ape> yeah its usually just annoying proximal family members
1086 2011-05-16 06:35:23 <Optimo> install secret webcam
1087 2011-05-16 06:38:40 <jrmithdobbs> _ape: i help exactly two people for free
1088 2011-05-16 06:38:56 <jrmithdobbs> _ape: my girlfriend and my grandma. pretty simple.
1089 2011-05-16 06:39:19 <jrmithdobbs> anyone else gets quote 2x my current rate and goes away ;P
1090 2011-05-16 06:40:22 <netxshare> ;;bc,stats
1091 2011-05-16 06:40:24 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124289 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 702 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 7 hours, 45 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 225189.89681359
1092 2011-05-16 06:40:27 <vorlov> anyone has any fav usb flash drive they use for this USB live installation of ubuntu
1093 2011-05-16 06:40:27 <vorlov> ?
1094 2011-05-16 06:40:27 <jrmithdobbs> actually not true, i've had one guy take me up on it. still do work for him occassionally. That's worth my time. heh
1095 2011-05-16 06:42:01 <_ape> haha
1096 2011-05-16 06:43:01 devon_hillard has joined
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1098 2011-05-16 06:43:01 devon_hillard has joined
1099 2011-05-16 06:43:21 bitcoiner has joined
1100 2011-05-16 06:44:28 <vorlov> _ape: do u use a live USB boot
1101 2011-05-16 06:44:29 <vorlov> ?
1102 2011-05-16 06:46:03 <jrmithdobbs> _ape: little different situation though, was a guy I worked with for a while and he's running a (very profitable) small business
1103 2011-05-16 06:46:21 <_ape> im using pxe with tinycore
1104 2011-05-16 06:46:24 <jrmithdobbs> _ape: he actually just put me on retainer for a set number of hours of month. p cool situation ;P
1105 2011-05-16 06:46:28 <_ape> nice
1106 2011-05-16 06:46:36 <_ape> wish i had steady money like that
1107 2011-05-16 06:46:40 <_ape> my only income is mining atm
1108 2011-05-16 07:02:06 Marcel has joined
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1116 2011-05-16 07:13:19 <devon_hillard> ahahahaha macfags: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/14/imac_hard_drive_replacement_woes/
1117 2011-05-16 07:14:40 <devon_hillard> a typical macfag response: "Who don't you want to buy the $500 iHardOn?"
1118 2011-05-16 07:16:59 <io_error> iFail
1119 2011-05-16 07:18:07 <jrmithdobbs> ok, is there anything that can be done about whoever that jackass is that drops all txns when he creates a block? haha
1120 2011-05-16 07:18:12 toffoo has joined
1121 2011-05-16 07:19:28 <sacarlson> error in compile "***no rule to make tarket ui.rc  needed by obj/ui.res.o" is this common in a mingw windows compile?
1122 2011-05-16 07:19:30 <jrmithdobbs> shit's annoying when trying to xfer stuff
1123 2011-05-16 07:20:48 bitcoiner_ has joined
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1125 2011-05-16 07:21:25 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1127 2011-05-16 07:22:46 bitcoiner has quit (Ping timeout: 261 seconds)
1128 2011-05-16 07:22:54 bitcoiner_ is now known as bitcoiner
1129 2011-05-16 07:26:11 duobot has joined
1130 2011-05-16 07:27:52 <jrmithdobbs> is some monkey business going on? my local client stopped receiving blocks like 40 minutes ago
1131 2011-05-16 07:28:17 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1132 2011-05-16 07:28:18 <jrmithdobbs> but my well connected one that's elsewhere is fine (and forcing connect to it instead of using the seed got me caught up on blocks immediately)
1133 2011-05-16 07:28:31 <retinal> it's just you
1134 2011-05-16 07:28:52 <jrmithdobbs> k, just wondering cause of the press
1135 2011-05-16 07:29:13 <jrmithdobbs> weird that all 8 nodes i was connected to dropped/etc at once
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1139 2011-05-16 07:35:08 an20 has left ()
1140 2011-05-16 07:37:01 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
1141 2011-05-16 07:37:02 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.98,"low":6.2,"vol":26825,"buy":7.228,"sell":7.4871,"last":7.2279}}
1142 2011-05-16 07:39:27 anenigma has left ()
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1144 2011-05-16 07:42:30 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
1145 2011-05-16 07:42:31 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.98,"low":6.2,"vol":26828,"buy":7.2289,"sell":7.4871,"last":7.229}}
1146 2011-05-16 07:43:43 JaredW has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1150 2011-05-16 07:46:35 sethsethseth__ is now known as sethsethseth
1151 2011-05-16 07:46:49 <ryan-c> I've followed this guide http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7514.0 and I'm getting the same error as this guy: http://pastebin.com/gzQeQDei - anyone know what i've screwed up?
1152 2011-05-16 07:48:01 sethsethseth__ has joined
1153 2011-05-16 07:48:25 <ersi> ArtForzZz: Just for a frame of reference, how many LE's does your fpga implementation take in use?
1154 2011-05-16 07:48:44 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1155 2011-05-16 07:48:50 <ryan-c> missed the sudo tar xvfz icd-registration.tgz -C /
1156 2011-05-16 07:49:01 ryan-c has left ("Leaving")
1157 2011-05-16 07:50:42 micho has joined
1158 2011-05-16 07:50:48 <micho> hi
1159 2011-05-16 07:50:57 <micho> does anybody know if there are JS implementations of miners?
1160 2011-05-16 07:51:24 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1163 2011-05-16 07:58:45 Silverpike has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1164 2011-05-16 08:05:23 <sipa> micho: i believe that exists, yes, but it's extremely slow
1165 2011-05-16 08:05:44 micho has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1166 2011-05-16 08:06:52 retinal has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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1171 2011-05-16 08:16:59 <welder> anybody running bitcoin on ubuntu natty?
1172 2011-05-16 08:17:48 <BlueMatt> welder: for gui you have to compile with wx-trunk, I have a compiled 0.3.21 on the Ubuntu 11.04 forum thread
1173 2011-05-16 08:18:12 <BlueMatt> and there is a script which should handle the compilation for you
1174 2011-05-16 08:18:16 <welder> oh thanks BlueMatt
1175 2011-05-16 08:18:18 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
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1181 2011-05-16 08:25:39 <Raccoon> someone set up a twitter feed bot in #bitcoin-twitter please
1182 2011-05-16 08:26:36 welder has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1191 2011-05-16 08:49:32 <xelister> "<InstantBTC> fucking bitcoincharts you peice of shit laptop server!"  lol ?
1192 2011-05-16 08:49:56 <jaromil> moin
1193 2011-05-16 08:50:07 <jaromil> cheers for the headers cleanup!
1194 2011-05-16 08:50:21 <jaromil> was just reviewing it, looks oke
1195 2011-05-16 08:51:28 <sipa> jaromil: is it easy to rebase autotools against betterheaders?
1196 2011-05-16 08:52:28 <jaromil> sipa: yes, i did it already in my branch
1197 2011-05-16 08:52:32 <jaromil> just testing compilation
1198 2011-05-16 08:52:39 <jaromil> no conflicts whatsoever
1199 2011-05-16 08:52:44 <sipa> ok, good
1200 2011-05-16 08:53:22 <BlueMatt> jaromil: have you had a chance to look at mingw compilation again?
1201 2011-05-16 08:53:41 <jaromil> BlueMatt: nope, i believe its little to be done yet i have not much time for it
1202 2011-05-16 08:54:06 <jaromil> but well, i'm already using autotools a lot in other developments
1203 2011-05-16 08:54:18 <BlueMatt> ah, ok fair enough, just wondered
1204 2011-05-16 08:55:06 <jaromil> maybe we can give it a push sometimes, yet i think autotools is so picky and annoying that the best to have it smoothed is just using it and then assume some more issues will be fixed with broader testing
1205 2011-05-16 08:55:55 <sipa> who is doing the osx builds, and what is required for it, btw?
1206 2011-05-16 08:55:57 <BlueMatt> meh true, if there is a chance though, Id like to have mingw working before merge...maybe if I have time in the next couple days...
1207 2011-05-16 08:56:03 <jaromil> meanwhile i need to proceed on other projects in which i'm also using the bitcoin codebase and in my experience it works very well. might need some fixing for debian packaging, yet i'm going to look into that soon
1208 2011-05-16 08:56:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: Laszlo
1209 2011-05-16 08:56:23 <BlueMatt> jaromil: we already have debian packaging
1210 2011-05-16 08:56:24 <jaromil> i've updated a bit the osx build howto btw
1211 2011-05-16 08:56:35 <BlueMatt> has anyone tried autotools on osx
1212 2011-05-16 08:56:41 <jaromil> BlueMatt: well then call it non-official, yet i'm packaging something way easier for people
1213 2011-05-16 08:57:00 <BlueMatt> jaromil: we have official debian packages in debian repos
1214 2011-05-16 08:57:03 <BlueMatt> (only bitcoind)
1215 2011-05-16 08:57:36 <jaromil> i'm willing to propose more pull requests for merge eventually but they include a somehow more "liberal" approach to maintainance and some patches by genjix that were refused already
1216 2011-05-16 08:57:47 <jaromil> plus i'm dropping wx
1217 2011-05-16 08:57:58 <BlueMatt> coding qt?
1218 2011-05-16 08:58:07 <jaromil> no, spesmilo
1219 2011-05-16 08:58:12 <BlueMatt> oh, yuck
1220 2011-05-16 08:58:33 <sipa> if bitcoin-qt is merged and working and tested, dropping wx from the main branch is reasonable after a while, imho
1221 2011-05-16 08:58:42 <jaromil> and also removing the mining code
1222 2011-05-16 08:58:42 <sipa> but not earlier
1223 2011-05-16 08:58:49 <BlueMatt> sipa: agreed
1224 2011-05-16 08:59:06 <jaromil> and merging sacarlson's weed mods
1225 2011-05-16 08:59:12 <sipa> weed mods?
1226 2011-05-16 08:59:16 <BlueMatt> what were those?
1227 2011-05-16 08:59:23 <jaromil> genesis code out in .conf
1228 2011-05-16 08:59:31 <BlueMatt> oh, yuck as well
1229 2011-05-16 08:59:37 <jaromil> he created a new currency... weed :D
1230 2011-05-16 08:59:45 <sipa> right, i remember
1231 2011-05-16 08:59:46 <BlueMatt> if people want to do that fine, but having it end-user configurable is _not_ good
1232 2011-05-16 08:59:48 <jaromil> BlueMatt: yuck as in ? :)
1233 2011-05-16 08:59:52 <sipa> BlueMatt: agree
1234 2011-05-16 09:00:02 <jaromil> nah it won't ever be easy
1235 2011-05-16 09:00:12 <sipa> and maybe the chain config should be centralized in the source code, instead of spread all over the place
1236 2011-05-16 09:00:15 <BlueMatt> yea then it becomes, put the following in this file
1237 2011-05-16 09:00:17 <jaromil> yet i need it for some future projects ;)
1238 2011-05-16 09:00:21 <sipa> but not runtime configurable
1239 2011-05-16 09:00:37 <BlueMatt> then it becomes too easy imho
1240 2011-05-16 09:00:46 <BlueMatt> we are bitcoin, not generalized bitcoin
1241 2011-05-16 09:00:47 <jaromil> however if you are interested i'm keeping all these things merged with current bitcoin
1242 2011-05-16 09:01:02 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i agree what you are doing is important to keep the current focus
1243 2011-05-16 09:01:26 <jaromil> i don't mean by any way to criticise bitcoind maintainance, i'm just moving forward for other projects
1244 2011-05-16 09:01:38 <BlueMatt> fair enough
1245 2011-05-16 09:01:40 <jaromil> i can just tell that in this parallel world things are still merging fine
1246 2011-05-16 09:02:10 <jaromil> or well, almost. actually bitnom and rcpstr conflict a bit with latest header changes
1247 2011-05-16 09:02:12 <BlueMatt> I just think its hard enough to get merchants and such for bitcoin, let alone chose one of 100 almost-identical cryptocurrencies
1248 2011-05-16 09:02:27 <sipa> bitnom?
1249 2011-05-16 09:02:35 <BlueMatt> isnt that the dns crap?
1250 2011-05-16 09:02:42 <jaromil> BlueMatt: for what i can speak of, the cryptocurrencies i'll be working on won't be of global span
1251 2011-05-16 09:02:54 <BlueMatt> ah, ok then whatever, have fun
1252 2011-05-16 09:03:21 <BlueMatt> just remember mining only works if you either trust everyone on the network, or have a very broad appealing currency/miners
1253 2011-05-16 09:03:29 <jaromil> yes bitnom is the php thing with email-like addresses which kills anonymity a bit
1254 2011-05-16 09:03:37 <BlueMatt> ah, that crap
1255 2011-05-16 09:03:53 <BlueMatt> we kind of need something like that, but IMHO none of the current pulls are worth merging
1256 2011-05-16 09:03:59 <BlueMatt> they are close, but miss a couple things
1257 2011-05-16 09:04:01 <jaromil> i understand
1258 2011-05-16 09:04:05 <jaromil> in fact yes
1259 2011-05-16 09:04:19 <jaromil> i also like sacarlson's idea of prefixing hashes with a currency string
1260 2011-05-16 09:04:23 <jaromil> like bitcoin_hash
1261 2011-05-16 09:04:36 <sipa> why?
1262 2011-05-16 09:04:38 <lupine_85> BlueMatt, I would use webfinger for it, personally
1263 2011-05-16 09:04:49 <jaromil> you can understand right away what a hash is for
1264 2011-05-16 09:05:08 <jaromil> world is full of hashes.. :)
1265 2011-05-16 09:05:08 <BlueMatt> jaromil: they already can, bitcoin hashes start with 1, start your addresses with something else
1266 2011-05-16 09:05:09 <lupine_85> a la http://lupine.me.uk/webfinger/nick@lupine.me.uk.xrd
1267 2011-05-16 09:05:25 <sacarlson> jaromil: you don't need to add them to bitcoin hashes just new coins that are added later
1268 2011-05-16 09:05:36 <jaromil> sure is not needed
1269 2011-05-16 09:05:43 <sipa> there are only 256 possible version bytes in bitcoin address strings
1270 2011-05-16 09:05:44 <lupine_85> someone says 'pay bitcoins to nick@lupine.me.uk', bitcoin clients pops off to lupine.me.uk to resolve that using a well-known protocol, job's a good'un
1271 2011-05-16 09:06:02 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
1272 2011-05-16 09:06:05 <sipa> there were 2 used already, and i used 2 others for private keys to that
1273 2011-05-16 09:06:12 <sipa> *in addition
1274 2011-05-16 09:06:21 <BlueMatt> and we need a couple hundred?
1275 2011-05-16 09:06:44 <sipa> not sure, but if everyone is going to define their own in their own currencies, it will be a mess :)
1276 2011-05-16 09:07:17 <sacarlson> sipa: all you need do is use one more of the 256 possible plus add the human readable header
1277 2011-05-16 09:07:36 <jaromil> yea, that's why strings are there to the rescue
1278 2011-05-16 09:07:58 <sipa> human readable header?
1279 2011-05-16 09:08:21 <jaromil> can be any-readable, yet string tagging avoids exhaustion of finite numeric ranges
1280 2011-05-16 09:08:22 <sacarlson> sipa: yes like weed_483749734j134341
1281 2011-05-16 09:08:28 <sipa> oh like that, sure
1282 2011-05-16 09:09:10 <jaromil> yay! is raining here finally. jeez what a draught
1283 2011-05-16 09:09:19 <sipa> where is that?
1284 2011-05-16 09:09:22 <sacarlson> sipa: the new multi chain client can see if the header matches one of it's configs and start dealing with it
1285 2011-05-16 09:09:50 <jaromil> sipa: i believe we are close by, i'm in den haag atm
1286 2011-05-16 09:10:06 <sipa> oh, really :D
1287 2011-05-16 09:10:11 <sipa> i'm in leuven
1288 2011-05-16 09:10:14 <jaromil> was busy watering plants for half a day yesterday
1289 2011-05-16 09:11:28 <jaromil> btw there was also a "time bank" opening here in den haag at the stroom art center yesterday
1290 2011-05-16 09:12:02 <jaromil> they actually have it running now, on top of the nyc based e-flux time bank, with a shop you can buy stuff for hours
1291 2011-05-16 09:12:43 <jaromil> just FYI. i find it quite boring :) tried a bit time banking 15 years ago already, its just a hobby thing
1292 2011-05-16 09:13:47 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1293 2011-05-16 09:14:37 <noagendamarket> you should have a bitcoin time bank where you bring your rig and mine for a few hoaurs to buy stuff
1294 2011-05-16 09:14:45 <noagendamarket> :)
1295 2011-05-16 09:15:09 <noagendamarket> like a lan party for btc lol
1296 2011-05-16 09:15:25 <jaromil> btw http://launch.is/blog/l019-bitcoin-p2p-currency-the-most-dangerous-project-weve-ev.html
1297 2011-05-16 09:15:35 <jaromil> these people are really scared it seems
1298 2011-05-16 09:15:42 <jaromil> 1. Bitcoin is a technologically sound project.
1299 2011-05-16 09:15:43 <jaromil> 2. Bitcoin is unstoppable without end-user prosecution.
1300 2011-05-16 09:15:43 <jaromil> 3. Bitcoin is the most dangerous open-source project ever created.
1301 2011-05-16 09:15:43 <jaromil> 4. Bitcoin may be the most dangerous technological project since the internet itself.
1302 2011-05-16 09:15:46 <jaromil> 5. Bitcoin is a political statement by technotarians (technological libertarians).*
1303 2011-05-16 09:15:49 <jaromil> 6. Bitcoins will change the world unless governments ban them with harsh penalties.
1304 2011-05-16 09:16:02 <noagendamarket> na that is praise not condemnation :)
1305 2011-05-16 09:16:19 <jaromil> yea but c'mon even then i find it totally exagerated
1306 2011-05-16 09:16:22 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|calanacis has a tendency to paint things in very contrasting words
1307 2011-05-16 09:16:34 <jaromil> before money went on the wire for users we had the same situation
1308 2011-05-16 09:16:39 <jaromil> and it wasn't the end of the world
1309 2011-05-16 09:16:56 <jaromil> arguably the monopoly on digital transactions is a new disruptive thing for economy
1310 2011-05-16 09:17:08 <jaromil> we can't take it for granted that it did well on the economy
1311 2011-05-16 09:17:18 <jaromil> it also lead to banks being the only players offering "bank products"
1312 2011-05-16 09:17:26 <jaromil> however i'll save you my further thinkering
1313 2011-05-16 09:19:53 <Animeking> ;;bc.gen 155000
1314 2011-05-16 09:19:53 <gribble> Error: "bc.gen" is not a valid command.
1315 2011-05-16 09:19:58 <Animeking> ;;help
1316 2011-05-16 09:19:58 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
1317 2011-05-16 09:20:07 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 155000
1318 2011-05-16 09:20:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 155000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 0.990326850051 BTC per day and 0.0412636187521 BTC per hour.
1319 2011-05-16 09:20:19 <Animeking> oh
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1321 2011-05-16 09:22:56 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
1322 2011-05-16 09:22:59 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124310 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 681 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 4 hours, 59 minutes, and 27 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 224769.54636611
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1326 2011-05-16 09:23:08 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
1327 2011-05-16 09:23:09 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8,"low":6.2,"vol":28087,"buy":7.61,"sell":7.98,"last":7.6903}}
1328 2011-05-16 09:25:56 zyb has joined
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1337 2011-05-16 09:48:26 <jaromil> oh btw
1338 2011-05-16 09:48:33 <jaromil> seems they arrested strauss-kahn for rape
1339 2011-05-16 09:50:14 subpar has joined
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1342 2011-05-16 09:51:25 <directhex> my uncle's boss, apparently
1343 2011-05-16 09:52:05 basic_ed has joined
1344 2011-05-16 09:54:57 <noagendamarket> did they arrest him for raping economies ?
1345 2011-05-16 09:55:58 <jaromil> no. but then they also didn't arrested assange for espionage ... :)
1346 2011-05-16 09:56:01 bitofanoob has joined
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1349 2011-05-16 09:57:46 <noagendamarket> most of the guys at that level are pedophiles
1350 2011-05-16 09:57:51 <noagendamarket> lol
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1354 2011-05-16 10:01:22 <jaromil> power isn't healthy in the hands of one man. that's why decentralization is good.
1355 2011-05-16 10:01:29 basic612 has joined
1356 2011-05-16 10:02:08 <jaromil> super-powerful ppl from the old-world have all kinds of sociopathic behaviours
1357 2011-05-16 10:02:17 basic612 has quit (Client Quit)
1358 2011-05-16 10:02:26 <jaromil> c'mon, we are just bragging at being cynical kids, but these ppl are really wicked
1359 2011-05-16 10:03:04 basic612 has joined
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1365 2011-05-16 10:30:15 <Herodes> he's a greek, and was probably drunk too, and with his looks.. He was probably horny when he came out of the shower, he saw the maid, and figured he was back in 1200 being a real caveman. If he had used not his dickhead, but his other head, he'd just bought an escort girl instead, now he's losing everything. very smart.
1366 2011-05-16 10:30:46 <Herodes> power corrupts
1367 2011-05-16 10:31:04 <jaromil> yea that was the quote i was looking for, power corrupts
1368 2011-05-16 10:31:13 <Herodes> that is.. if what I have read in the news really is true...
1369 2011-05-16 10:31:16 <Herodes> you never know for sure.
1370 2011-05-16 10:31:27 <Herodes> Too easy to judge somebody just from what you read in the newspaper.
1371 2011-05-16 10:31:40 <jaromil> oh yea. esp. at this time to arrest someone like him is not just a coincidence
1372 2011-05-16 10:31:49 <Herodes> IF the government wanted to frame me, I am sure they'd be able to do and get the story in the papers so everybody would hate me as well.
1373 2011-05-16 10:32:41 <Herodes> Of course no government has any reason to do that, but I am sure it happens regularily all over the world.
1374 2011-05-16 10:35:25 Akinava has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1375 2011-05-16 10:36:28 <jaromil> well, i'm now convinced is not about rape.
1376 2011-05-16 10:36:55 <jaromil> and you are right you can frame almost anyone at almost any time about anything "bad"
1377 2011-05-16 10:37:16 <jaromil> yet i'm not into conspiracy. however i have a good feeling about change.
1378 2011-05-16 10:40:37 larsivi has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1379 2011-05-16 10:41:05 larsivi has joined
1380 2011-05-16 10:41:09 <sacarlson> I got the latiest git bitcoin to compile in wingw in windows XP but when I run bitcoin.exe I get error libeay32.dll was not found error, so compiler config problem?
1381 2011-05-16 10:54:14 <eps1> on my ubuntu box, sometimes poclbm fails with a context out of memory error when starting it
1382 2011-05-16 10:54:50 <eps1> if i do CTRL SHIFT + f5 and then CTRL SHIFT + f7 it will work
1383 2011-05-16 10:54:59 <eps1> is there any way to automate this?
1384 2011-05-16 10:55:32 Yurock is now known as Tengo
1385 2011-05-16 11:02:04 <Blitzboom> jaromil: i think it’s not really exaggerated
1386 2011-05-16 11:02:24 <Blitzboom> bitcoin IS dangerous for the elites
1387 2011-05-16 11:07:10 <noagendamarket> bitcoin is the next economic singularity event
1388 2011-05-16 11:07:24 <noagendamarket> much like the industrial revolution
1389 2011-05-16 11:08:04 Speeder has joined
1390 2011-05-16 11:10:26 <sacarlson> libeay32.dll error missing seems to be related to openssl so do I need a new openssl lib for my mingw compile?
1391 2011-05-16 11:11:04 <jaromil> Blitzboom: the elites have been dangerous to themselves for so long that anything "dangerous to them" coming up is just a natural manifestation they have been postponing for too long - namely bitcoin itself. so i wouldn't worry about that either.
1392 2011-05-16 11:11:19 TD has joined
1393 2011-05-16 11:11:22 <Blitzboom> i’m not worried. they should be ;)
1394 2011-05-16 11:11:51 <jaromil> yet dialogue is what is most needed to keep such a process peaceful
1395 2011-05-16 11:12:41 <Blitzboom> yeah. the elites who will take advantage of bitcoin soon will probably not be completely marginalized
1396 2011-05-16 11:12:55 <Blitzboom> same thing as the media industry, really
1397 2011-05-16 11:13:02 <Blitzboom> either they change or they’re forced to
1398 2011-05-16 11:13:03 <jaromil> good example
1399 2011-05-16 11:16:13 plutonic has joined
1400 2011-05-16 11:17:28 bk128 has joined
1401 2011-05-16 11:20:41 <jaromil> since a week or so i've been moving forward into bitcoin code and have noticed how many global variables aren't included in classes as they should
1402 2011-05-16 11:20:48 <jaromil> there is a big need to review it for reentrancy
1403 2011-05-16 11:20:57 <jaromil> is there anyone doing that?
1404 2011-05-16 11:21:06 <sipa> jaromil: i'm working on moving the wallet-handling stuff into a separate class
1405 2011-05-16 11:21:11 <sipa> as a first step
1406 2011-05-16 11:21:28 <jaromil> that's good for a first step i guess
1407 2011-05-16 11:21:32 <jaromil> its delicate code
1408 2011-05-16 11:21:46 <jaromil> ok i'm off to move a ball of straw and do some gardening now :)
1409 2011-05-16 11:21:51 <jaromil> bbl
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1413 2011-05-16 11:27:38 <sipa> TD: you're aware of the sequence number in bitcoin transactions and/or why it's not enabled now?
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1419 2011-05-16 11:37:41 <Herodes> I will look more into the source this summer. Will see what and if I can contribute anything.
1420 2011-05-16 11:37:48 <Herodes> Right now I am busy with last semester project.
1421 2011-05-16 11:38:19 <Herodes> I've already set up the windows environment to compile the client, and have made some slight changes for a custom client to someone who requested a few features.
1422 2011-05-16 11:38:26 <Herodes> No biggies really.
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1424 2011-05-16 11:38:42 <sipa> such as?
1425 2011-05-16 11:38:50 <JuanDaugherty> whappen to trading in Euros?
1426 2011-05-16 11:38:52 <Herodes> jaromil: but it seems to be an issue with a lot of open source projects that they do not follow best practises.
1427 2011-05-16 11:39:04 <Herodes> sipa: just playing sounds based on certain events.
1428 2011-05-16 11:39:12 <sipa> ah, that was you :)
1429 2011-05-16 11:39:15 <Herodes> yes
1430 2011-05-16 11:39:20 <Herodes> As I said, no biggie.
1431 2011-05-16 11:39:31 <Herodes> But I got my feet a little wet with the source code.
1432 2011-05-16 11:39:44 <Herodes> What took the most time was to get all the libraries and compile them.
1433 2011-05-16 11:39:46 <sipa> sure, that's how you get familiar with the system
1434 2011-05-16 11:39:52 <Herodes> Once that was done, the changes done were rather small.
1435 2011-05-16 11:40:36 <Herodes> but I plan on studying the whitepaper this summer and develve more into the source code, if not, just purely because I am interested for personal reasons to learn the inner workings of the system.
1436 2011-05-16 11:41:32 <Herodes> I am very humble as I know there is a lot more coders that's a lot more skilled then me, but you all start somewhere, and I've already coded a lot for the last years going through my education. :)
1437 2011-05-16 11:41:37 <JuanDaugherty> (also the log setup isn't google searchable like most public log setups)
1438 2011-05-16 11:44:41 <JuanDaugherty> also looks odd that MTGox is at exactly $8
1439 2011-05-16 11:44:48 <sipa> 8.1
1440 2011-05-16 11:45:00 <sacarlson> I found the solution to my problem with missing libeay32.dll, you have to copy the libeay32.dll to the same directory you are running bitcoin.exe from then it works, the dll file is already in the package no need to download another copy
1441 2011-05-16 11:46:20 <sacarlson> for some reason this wasn't needed in the previous version I compiled
1442 2011-05-16 11:47:05 <sacarlson> this was the compile of git hash f441949515fb76acad2e5987f5fcddbd804ba5c5
1443 2011-05-16 11:52:18 <JuanDaugherty> you'll prolly run into problems if you're becoming like a sovereign citizens alternative to the US dollar, only a matter of time, general cash in real currencies avoided that even if the amounts in the other real currencies were miniscule
1444 2011-05-16 11:52:44 <JuanDaugherty> *cashin/cashout in
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1459 2011-05-16 12:37:21 <Nesetalis> -whistles- look like the BTC is going to soar even higher today.. not even 9am and its already passed 8$?
1460 2011-05-16 12:39:07 gdoteof_home has joined
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1466 2011-05-16 12:49:53 <TheKid> anyone interested in writing an article for some coins?
1467 2011-05-16 12:53:46 Nesetalis is now known as Nes-asleep
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1473 2011-05-16 13:02:51 <Titeuf_87> for the python devs here: anyone can recommend a package to work with ecdsa?
1474 2011-05-16 13:03:19 <Titeuf_87> I'm looking at m2crypto, but there really isn't much documentation for it, which makes it rather complicated
1475 2011-05-16 13:03:30 WakiMiko has joined
1476 2011-05-16 13:04:26 <phantomcircuit> Titeuf_87, openssl
1477 2011-05-16 13:04:39 <phantomcircuit> probably less documentation though
1478 2011-05-16 13:05:41 <Titeuf_87> m2crypto is a wrapper around openssl from what I found out
1479 2011-05-16 13:05:53 <Titeuf_87> but I'll try to see if I can find more documentation about openssl, maybe that'll explain it a bit
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1482 2011-05-16 13:11:25 <ersi> Endeavor just had a successful Liftoff
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1491 2011-05-16 13:16:55 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,gen 3652
1492 2011-05-16 13:16:57 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 3652 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 0.0233333784283 BTC per day and 0.000972224101179 BTC per hour.
1493 2011-05-16 13:20:00 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1494 2011-05-16 13:20:23 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
1495 2011-05-16 13:22:24 <lupine_85> hmm, who's up for enabling TLS on bitcoin p2p connections in a backwards-compatible manner? :)
1496 2011-05-16 13:22:38 <sipa> why would you?
1497 2011-05-16 13:23:07 <sipa> any data transmitted over the p2p network is visible by everybody anyway
1498 2011-05-16 13:23:11 <lupine_85> habit, mostly, I guess
1499 2011-05-16 13:23:47 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, 1) there is no point as sipa has said, 2) you could trivially add a starttls command
1500 2011-05-16 13:24:01 <phantomcircuit> but again it's a total waste of time
1501 2011-05-16 13:24:56 <sipa> the only reason i can think of, is so that a sniffer cannot easily see you are doing bitcoin communication
1502 2011-05-16 13:25:06 <sipa> but he could trivially do a man in the middle attack to find out
1503 2011-05-16 13:25:24 <sipa> if you need anonimity of operation, use tor
1504 2011-05-16 13:25:54 <directhex> wouldn't it be missing the point to use certificates signed by a central authority? and with self-sign, you're not trusting that the other end is who they say they are. at which point, what're you gaining?
1505 2011-05-16 13:26:28 <lupine_85> *shrug* anyone can set up a certificate authority, and you can decide which authorities to trust in a decentralised manner
1506 2011-05-16 13:27:03 plutonic has quit (Quit: plutonic)
1507 2011-05-16 13:27:23 <sipa> one possibility would be building a bitcoin P2P network on top of a web-of-trust
1508 2011-05-16 13:27:32 <sipa> your client generates a host keypair
1509 2011-05-16 13:27:49 <sipa> and you can identify certain host id's as trusted
1510 2011-05-16 13:27:51 wolfspraul has joined
1511 2011-05-16 13:27:54 <directhex> web of trust without trusting identity?
1512 2011-05-16 13:27:56 <sipa> by signing them
1513 2011-05-16 13:28:03 pwrcycle has left ()
1514 2011-05-16 13:28:09 <TD> the whole point of bitcoin is you don't have to trust the network
1515 2011-05-16 13:28:14 <sipa> indeed
1516 2011-05-16 13:28:22 <sipa> the only advantage would be to prevent a sybil attack
1517 2011-05-16 13:29:51 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
1518 2011-05-16 13:30:11 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it wouldn't even do that
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1523 2011-05-16 13:33:59 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calc 3652
1524 2011-05-16 13:34:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3652 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 5 years, 45 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes, and 19 seconds
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1530 2011-05-16 13:38:49 <Blitzboom> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/05/16/1316211/BitCoin-the-Most-Dangerous-Project-Ever
1531 2011-05-16 13:40:37 <TD> sadly i agree with the first comment
1532 2011-05-16 13:41:18 <Blitzboom> TD: there’s no such thing as bad publicity
1533 2011-05-16 13:41:36 Marcel has joined
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1536 2011-05-16 13:48:29 Sedra- has joined
1537 2011-05-16 13:48:59 <eps1> unless you get accused of rape
1538 2011-05-16 13:49:58 lbalbalba has joined
1539 2011-05-16 13:50:16 <lbalbalba> hi. just heard about bitcoin, and have a quick question
1540 2011-05-16 13:50:28 dvide has joined
1541 2011-05-16 13:50:32 <Speeder> how can we develop a way to pay BTC with a card?
1542 2011-05-16 13:50:35 <phantomcircuit> lbalbalba, shoot
1543 2011-05-16 13:50:36 <lbalbalba> where is the amount of bitcoins you own stored ? some local file on your pc ?
1544 2011-05-16 13:50:37 <Speeder> I mean, like you do with a debit VISA card
1545 2011-05-16 13:50:38 <Speeder> ?
1546 2011-05-16 13:50:43 <sipa> lbalbalba: in the network
1547 2011-05-16 13:50:49 <lbalbalba> ah
1548 2011-05-16 13:50:52 * xelister enjoys the bumby ride
1549 2011-05-16 13:50:55 <lbalbalba> so i cant i just edit this file (with specially crafted software) outside of the bitcoin cliuent and increase my amount of bitcoins ?
1550 2011-05-16 13:50:57 <xelister> BUYING LOW AND SELLING HIGH
1551 2011-05-16 13:50:58 <sipa> lbalbalba: you have a local file with the private keys to access them
1552 2011-05-16 13:51:05 <xelister> Trolooolo lolo lolo
1553 2011-05-16 13:51:15 davex__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1554 2011-05-16 13:51:15 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
1555 2011-05-16 13:51:18 <sipa> lbalbalba: no, and copying the file won't work either, you can spend coins only once
1556 2011-05-16 13:51:26 <sipa> that's verified by the network as well
1557 2011-05-16 13:51:44 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1558 2011-05-16 13:51:48 <lbalbalba> so copies of the file are sored on other clients then as well ? idont get it
1559 2011-05-16 13:52:06 <phantomcircuit> lbalbalba, are you technically minded?
1560 2011-05-16 13:52:06 <sipa> the file only allows you to spend coins
1561 2011-05-16 13:52:27 <lbalbalba> little tech.
1562 2011-05-16 13:52:27 <sipa> are you familiar with public-key cryptography?
1563 2011-05-16 13:52:58 <phantomcircuit> lbalbalba, basically the entire system is a distributed notary, everytime you spend coins you have to tell everybody else which coins and to whom
1564 2011-05-16 13:53:02 <sipa> you could start by reading https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Introduction if you're interested in the details
1565 2011-05-16 13:53:12 <phantomcircuit> lbalbalba, this way you cannot double spend, since everybody knows you've already spent them
1566 2011-05-16 13:53:27 <sipa> this is also a nice read: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7269.0
1567 2011-05-16 13:53:59 <lbalbalba> thanx guys. this should be in the faq ;) im gonna read these now. bye
1568 2011-05-16 13:54:03 <directhex> lbalbalba, the coins owned by a given identity are stored "in the network". the mapping between that identity and you, which is what gives you the ability to "spend" coins, is via the wallet.dat on your computer
1569 2011-05-16 13:54:53 <phantomcircuit> directhex, an oversimplification
1570 2011-05-16 13:55:03 <Diablo-D3> dear god, directhex is still here?
1571 2011-05-16 13:55:07 <directhex> phantomcircuit, of course
1572 2011-05-16 13:55:13 <directhex> Diablo-D3, i don't answer to you.
1573 2011-05-16 13:55:39 <directhex> phantomcircuit, does lbalbalba sound like he wants a lesson in public key crypto from first principles?
1574 2011-05-16 13:55:53 <phantomcircuit> directhex, yes?
1575 2011-05-16 13:56:00 <lbalbalba> not really. ...
1576 2011-05-16 13:56:05 <Diablo-D3> directhex: well, whatever you do, dont start writing bitcoin software in c#
1577 2011-05-16 13:56:12 <Diablo-D3> the last thing we need is that fucking bullshit here
1578 2011-05-16 13:56:15 <directhex> Diablo-D3, i don't answer to you.
1579 2011-05-16 13:56:38 <Diablo-D3> so you dont deny C# is language for trolls?
1580 2011-05-16 13:56:58 <directhex> ...
1581 2011-05-16 13:56:59 <directhex> Diablo-D3, i don't answer to you.
1582 2011-05-16 13:57:01 <luke-jr> if it is, it's perfect for Diablo-D3
1583 2011-05-16 13:57:11 <ersi> Ha-ha, C#!
1584 2011-05-16 13:57:34 <Diablo-D3> directhex: Im glad you have confirmed you're a troll.
1585 2011-05-16 13:57:35 <xelister> C# is like c++ for gays
1586 2011-05-16 13:57:54 <directhex> Diablo-D3, i'm sure that's what anyone reading the scrollback would determine.
1587 2011-05-16 13:57:57 <ersi> Remember kids, it's down the road not cross the street when cutting yourself on sharp C
1588 2011-05-16 13:58:22 <lbalbalba> holy cow. a record of all transactions ever made is collectively maintained by all clients ? :shock:
1589 2011-05-16 13:58:39 <Diablo-D3> directhex: actually, most people already hate you for what ubuntu has turned into
1590 2011-05-16 13:58:40 <xelister> lbalbalba: yea... so?
1591 2011-05-16 13:58:40 <Diablo-D3> so w/e
1592 2011-05-16 13:58:46 <sipa> lbalbalba: for now, the protocol explicitly allows for old transactions to be pruned from storage
1593 2011-05-16 13:58:51 <sipa> though that isn't implemented
1594 2011-05-16 13:59:00 <lbalbalba> doesnt  that file get huge ?
1595 2011-05-16 13:59:09 <sipa> it will
1596 2011-05-16 13:59:10 <directhex> Diablo-D3, yes. i am personally responsible for "what ubuntu has turned into"
1597 2011-05-16 13:59:20 <directhex> Diablo-D3, did i mention i don't answer to you?
1598 2011-05-16 13:59:23 <Diablo-D3> directhex: you deny being a mono maint in ubuntu?
1599 2011-05-16 13:59:32 <xelister> omg you have mono?
1600 2011-05-16 13:59:34 <mtrlt> wtf is this shit
1601 2011-05-16 13:59:36 * xelister gets the vaccine
1602 2011-05-16 13:59:40 Jaagu has joined
1603 2011-05-16 13:59:41 <directhex> Diablo-D3, i didn't say that. i'm entirely happy with my debian work TYVM.
1604 2011-05-16 13:59:50 <mtrlt> diablo trolling ppl again :)
1605 2011-05-16 14:00:01 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: no, directhex is just trying to push his c# views on people again
1606 2011-05-16 14:00:12 <directhex> i'd love to see what i've pushed.
1607 2011-05-16 14:00:14 <lbalbalba> so after years of usage this file will be tera/zeta bytes large, and a copy stored on each client ? :shock:
1608 2011-05-16 14:00:15 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin does not rely on swpats.
1609 2011-05-16 14:00:17 <directhex> please quote it.
1610 2011-05-16 14:00:25 <mtrlt> as far as i can see, you are the asshole here. unsurprisingly
1611 2011-05-16 14:00:36 <sipa> lbalbalba: no, most people will be running a lightweight client
1612 2011-05-16 14:00:50 <mtrlt> Diablo-D3: are there people you are not constantly mad at :P
1613 2011-05-16 14:00:53 z310 has joined
1614 2011-05-16 14:01:01 <phantomcircuit> lbalbalba, it'll get large, but not ridiculously large
1615 2011-05-16 14:01:03 <sipa> lbalbalba: that only retains the transactions that are relevant for yourself
1616 2011-05-16 14:01:22 e has joined
1617 2011-05-16 14:01:24 <Speeder> cn someone go to Slashdot and explain the untraceable crap?
1618 2011-05-16 14:01:27 <z310> Bitcoin just gets bigger and bigger
1619 2011-05-16 14:01:31 <Speeder> I do not have a slashdot account
1620 2011-05-16 14:01:38 <Speeder> and have no intention of making one
1621 2011-05-16 14:01:48 e is now known as Guest32912
1622 2011-05-16 14:01:50 <z310> being one of its first generators, i wish i had kept some of my coins
1623 2011-05-16 14:01:51 <sipa> someone post a link to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Introduction or http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7269.0 on /. ?
1624 2011-05-16 14:01:53 <lbalbalba> so I only have to store the transactions i made myself ? ad that holds true for each client ? so i still dont get  why you cant just hack that file. oh, well, nevermind...
1625 2011-05-16 14:01:58 <Speeder> but we seriously need a comment on slashdot explaining the untraceable shit the guy wrote
1626 2011-05-16 14:02:12 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: I dont like people who spend their days attacking open source
1627 2011-05-16 14:02:12 <Titeuf_87> Speeder, you don't have to make an account to comment on slashdot
1628 2011-05-16 14:02:17 <sipa> lbalbalba: your client will still trace coins received to verify they are real
1629 2011-05-16 14:02:27 <Speeder> lbalbalba:  you do not store anything bout your own passwords actually.
1630 2011-05-16 14:02:30 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: and since bitcoin is a very important open source project, I have a right to call people out on it
1631 2011-05-16 14:02:33 <sipa> lbalbalba: by requesting the chain of transactions from the network
1632 2011-05-16 14:02:36 <Speeder> lbalbalba:  the coins are stored in internet
1633 2011-05-16 14:02:40 <z310> Diablo-D3: hi
1634 2011-05-16 14:02:42 <z310> remember me?
1635 2011-05-16 14:02:43 <Speeder> and you store the password needed to send them
1636 2011-05-16 14:02:47 <Diablo-D3> z310: nope
1637 2011-05-16 14:02:56 <mtrlt> Diablo-D3: and telling people what language they should use is the way to go? :3
1638 2011-05-16 14:02:59 <z310> were you the guy doing the GPU stuff?
1639 2011-05-16 14:03:04 <lbalbalba> rrright... 'the coins are stored *on the internet*' ... you mean on other client, right ?
1640 2011-05-16 14:03:15 fuho has joined
1641 2011-05-16 14:03:19 <Diablo-D3> z310: I have a gpu miner, yes.
1642 2011-05-16 14:03:21 <Speeder> lbalbalba:  it is a P2P network, everyone has a copy of it
1643 2011-05-16 14:03:22 <sipa> lbalbalba: there will always be nodes that need the full list of *unspent* transactions
1644 2011-05-16 14:03:35 <sipa> lbalbalba: but not everyone needs to have that full list
1645 2011-05-16 14:03:41 <Speeder> lbalbalba:  I mean *on the internet* because there are no server, it is out there somewhere, it does not matter where
1646 2011-05-16 14:03:59 <z310> Diablo-D3: is sirius-m still around?
1647 2011-05-16 14:04:05 <sipa> lbalbalba: and if you run the software right now, yes it will download and store the entire history
1648 2011-05-16 14:04:20 <Speeder> sipa that sounds so badass
1649 2011-05-16 14:04:27 <Speeder> a software that downloads the entire history
1650 2011-05-16 14:04:38 <sipa> oh yeah
1651 2011-05-16 14:04:52 <z310> does bitcoin still bootstrap through IRC?
1652 2011-05-16 14:04:57 <lbalbalba> well in p2p everyone is both client and server at the same time ... right ?:)
1653 2011-05-16 14:05:07 <Speeder> lbalbalba:  yes, sorta
1654 2011-05-16 14:05:20 <phantomcircuit> lbalbalba, lol, the current implementation stores all blocks and all transactions, however each client only needs to store the transactions which it needs to verify to other clients that it's coins are valid
1655 2011-05-16 14:05:22 <Speeder> lbalbalba:  what I mean is there are no central server
1656 2011-05-16 14:05:49 <phantomcircuit> lbalbalba, so in the future in more sophisticated implementations the storage requirements will be considerably lower
1657 2011-05-16 14:06:22 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1658 2011-05-16 14:07:45 barf has joined
1659 2011-05-16 14:08:03 <lbalbalba> well, guess im gonna read the rest of the introduction now. thanx for the answers.
1660 2011-05-16 14:08:37 <lbalbalba> bye
1661 2011-05-16 14:08:41 lbalbalba has quit ()
1662 2011-05-16 14:09:10 Incitatus has joined
1663 2011-05-16 14:09:39 <lulzplzkthx> yes z310
1664 2011-05-16 14:10:17 <z310> lulzplzkthx: has another solution been explored much?
1665 2011-05-16 14:10:50 <lulzplzkthx> yes, dns discovery  or something like that
1666 2011-05-16 14:11:00 <z310> thank you
1667 2011-05-16 14:11:02 <lulzplzkthx> idk how it's going
1668 2011-05-16 14:11:27 <phantomcircuit> lulzplzkthx, it's implemented in the current stable build on bitcoin.org
1669 2011-05-16 14:11:40 djbaniel has joined
1670 2011-05-16 14:11:47 <Diablo-D3> z310: Ive seen sirius recently I think
1671 2011-05-16 14:12:07 <lulzplzkthx> ah, k
1672 2011-05-16 14:12:15 <lulzplzkthx> still experimental though right?
1673 2011-05-16 14:12:17 <z310> Diablo-D3: i just saw his nickname on the user list
1674 2011-05-16 14:12:17 <z310> thanks
1675 2011-05-16 14:12:55 <phantomcircuit> lulzplzkthx, not really
1676 2011-05-16 14:13:01 <lulzplzkthx> kk
1677 2011-05-16 14:13:04 <lfm> ;;seen sirius
1678 2011-05-16 14:13:04 <Speeder> so bitcoin.org really got slashdotted
1679 2011-05-16 14:13:04 <gribble> sirius was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, and 30 seconds ago: <sirius> luke-jr: no
1680 2011-05-16 14:13:06 <phantomcircuit> lulzplzkthx, bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk
1681 2011-05-16 14:13:26 <phantomcircuit> Speeder, appears so
1682 2011-05-16 14:13:27 <phantomcircuit> sigh
1683 2011-05-16 14:13:35 Bobbinton has joined
1684 2011-05-16 14:13:49 <lulzplzkthx> again?
1685 2011-05-16 14:14:06 <phantomcircuit> ffs it's a single static page
1686 2011-05-16 14:14:17 <z310> <Speeder> so bitcoin.org really got slashdotted
1687 2011-05-16 14:14:17 <sipa> TD: are you IamTheRealMike on /.? :D
1688 2011-05-16 14:14:21 <z310> we've been slashdotted before
1689 2011-05-16 14:14:47 <lulzplzkthx> oh wow
1690 2011-05-16 14:14:55 <lulzplzkthx> lol "Most Dangerous Project Ever"
1691 2011-05-16 14:15:06 <z310> that article is on reddit too
1692 2011-05-16 14:15:10 <lupine_85> mwahahaha, my client's name is available as a vanity domain
1693 2011-05-16 14:15:24 <Speeder> z310:  link so we can upvote it?
1694 2011-05-16 14:15:26 <lupine_85> lulzplzkthx, presumably, it's much worse than the manhattan project ever was
1695 2011-05-16 14:15:34 <lfm> boingboing put up a link to launch.is article
1696 2011-05-16 14:15:48 <eps1> manhattan wasn't open source
1697 2011-05-16 14:16:09 <lfm> http://launch.is/blog/l019-bitcoin-p2p-currency-the-most-dangerous-project-weve-ev.html
1698 2011-05-16 14:16:33 <lfm> It seems pretty accurate to me actually
1699 2011-05-16 14:16:35 <z310> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/hc63x/bitcoin_p2p_currency_the_most_dangerous_project/
1700 2011-05-16 14:16:37 <z310> Speeder:
1701 2011-05-16 14:16:47 <lulzplzkthx> lol! lupine_85
1702 2011-05-16 14:16:48 <BlueMatt> stop linking that linkbait
1703 2011-05-16 14:16:50 JMercha has joined
1704 2011-05-16 14:17:04 <BlueMatt> you realize that douche wrote exactly what we want to get linked?
1705 2011-05-16 14:17:29 <z310> BlueMatt: i was asked to
1706 2011-05-16 14:17:31 <z310> to get linked?
1707 2011-05-16 14:17:39 <BlueMatt> to get popular
1708 2011-05-16 14:18:25 <BlueMatt> ;;downforjustme www.bitcoin.org
1709 2011-05-16 14:18:25 <gribble> Error: "downforjustme" is not a valid command.
1710 2011-05-16 14:18:27 pnicholson has joined
1711 2011-05-16 14:18:43 <lfm> bluematt are you saying you don't want to get popular?
1712 2011-05-16 14:19:02 <lulzplzkthx> ;;downforeveryone www.bitcoin.org
1713 2011-05-16 14:19:03 <gribble> Error: "downforeveryone" is not a valid command.
1714 2011-05-16 14:19:20 <BlueMatt> lfm: no, Im saying that him writing bullshit just to get linked and make money means we shouldnt be pimping his crap
1715 2011-05-16 14:19:34 <BlueMatt> its just linkbait
1716 2011-05-16 14:20:05 <lulzplzkthx> It's not just you! http://bitcoin.org looks down from here.
1717 2011-05-16 14:20:15 <BlueMatt> no, its up just really laggy
1718 2011-05-16 14:20:16 <sirius> oh slashdot... that explains
1719 2011-05-16 14:20:17 <z310> BlueMatt: the article looks poorly done
1720 2011-05-16 14:20:19 <BlueMatt> and nice fake bot lulzplzkthx
1721 2011-05-16 14:20:20 <z310> i only skimmed it
1722 2011-05-16 14:20:31 <lfm> well ya the title is kinda sensationalistic but from what people say here it may be accurate
1723 2011-05-16 14:20:31 <lulzplzkthx> what?
1724 2011-05-16 14:20:38 <lulzplzkthx> i went to isup.me...
1725 2011-05-16 14:20:45 <sirius> the main page goes to sourceforge hosting when gavin sets up a vhost
1726 2011-05-16 14:20:49 <BlueMatt> yea, he wrote crap just to get linked, its not well written but is sensationalistic
1727 2011-05-16 14:21:14 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: oh, sorry I thought you formatted it to look identical to what gribble posts
1728 2011-05-16 14:21:15 agricocb has joined
1729 2011-05-16 14:21:17 <BlueMatt> ;;isup bitcoin.org
1730 2011-05-16 14:21:18 <gribble> Error: "isup" is not a valid command.
1731 2011-05-16 14:21:22 <BlueMatt> damn, what is the command?
1732 2011-05-16 14:21:47 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1733 2011-05-16 14:22:27 <Bobbinton> ;;o
1734 2011-05-16 14:22:28 <gribble> Error: "o" is not a valid command.
1735 2011-05-16 14:22:45 <sipa> ;;isitup bitcoin.org
1736 2011-05-16 14:22:45 <gribble> Error: "isitup" is not a valid command.
1737 2011-05-16 14:22:51 in has joined
1738 2011-05-16 14:23:57 <lulzplzkthx> ;;downforme
1739 2011-05-16 14:23:57 <gribble> Error: "downforme" is not a valid command.
1740 2011-05-16 14:29:03 in has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1741 2011-05-16 14:30:26 <ersi> ;;isitdown derp.com
1742 2011-05-16 14:30:27 <gribble> http://derp.com Is Up -> Check if your website is up or down?
1743 2011-05-16 14:31:00 retinal has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1744 2011-05-16 14:31:26 <Blitzboom> "The government doesn't have to ban them they can just spend a few million buying all of them and then delete their wallet."
1745 2011-05-16 14:31:27 <Blitzboom> wow
1746 2011-05-16 14:31:34 <Blitzboom> i wish they did that …
1747 2011-05-16 14:31:40 <_ape> that would be awesome
1748 2011-05-16 14:32:08 <z310> i sold all my bitcoins though
1749 2011-05-16 14:32:11 <z310> :(
1750 2011-05-16 14:32:14 <_ape> http://govermentgrants.biz/wp-content/plugins/wpshapeshiftr/images/free-money-from-the-government.gif
1751 2011-05-16 14:32:16 <eps1> and then bitcoin2.0 comes along
1752 2011-05-16 14:32:17 <BlueMatt> buy more :)
1753 2011-05-16 14:32:31 <TD> apparently we could be doing a better job of explaining bitcoins benefits
1754 2011-05-16 14:32:42 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: i thought you think it’s a bubble
1755 2011-05-16 14:32:46 <z310> i had over 20,000
1756 2011-05-16 14:32:46 <gmaxwell> _ape: I see him around town from time to time.
1757 2011-05-16 14:32:46 <_ape> 1) drugs 2) hookers 3) terrorism
1758 2011-05-16 14:32:48 <TD> the weusecoins video is great, but i guess people aren't able to watch it
1759 2011-05-16 14:32:54 <_ape> lol
1760 2011-05-16 14:32:55 retinal has joined
1761 2011-05-16 14:32:57 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: you dont? we're at fucking 8
1762 2011-05-16 14:33:00 Sedra has joined
1763 2011-05-16 14:33:00 <TD> or maybe the front page needs a clearer comparison against credit cards
1764 2011-05-16 14:33:16 <Blitzboom> people are fucking stupid, TD. they need a google ar paypal logo
1765 2011-05-16 14:33:19 <Blitzboom> and then it’s all fine
1766 2011-05-16 14:33:21 Sedra- has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1767 2011-05-16 14:34:19 <Blitzboom> if only one major company were to adopt bitcoin …
1768 2011-05-16 14:34:26 <noagendamarket> will be funny if the government belives that :)
1769 2011-05-16 14:34:35 <noagendamarket> thats an epic troll
1770 2011-05-16 14:34:37 <noagendamarket> lol
1771 2011-05-16 14:34:55 <TD> smaller merchants have the most to gain from bitcoin, really
1772 2011-05-16 14:35:00 <eps1> Blitzboom: chicken and egg, why would they adopt when most people don't use it?
1773 2011-05-16 14:35:00 <noagendamarket> sure you can spend 500billion buying them all
1774 2011-05-16 14:35:04 <sipa> ah, finally someone linked the time article
1775 2011-05-16 14:35:07 <TD> big companies have already gone through the pain of dealing with credit cards and are used to it
1776 2011-05-16 14:35:11 <Blitzboom> eps1: if they adopt it, people will use it
1777 2011-05-16 14:35:37 <Blitzboom> and they gain: initially appreciation of bitcoins, then no chargebacks, very low transaction fees
1778 2011-05-16 14:35:39 <lupine_85> eps1, if the transaction fees are low enough, merchants will push it
1779 2011-05-16 14:35:44 <Blitzboom> etc.
1780 2011-05-16 14:35:55 <lupine_85> currently transaction fees are 2% or so, for most cards
1781 2011-05-16 14:35:59 <eps1> TD is right, in the legal space bitcoins will grow slowly before they become mainstream
1782 2011-05-16 14:36:00 <lupine_85> that's a lot of money
1783 2011-05-16 14:36:22 <eps1> in the illegal space.... there is a lot of potential for rapid growth
1784 2011-05-16 14:36:53 <eps1> how is not chargebacks good for consumers?
1785 2011-05-16 14:36:56 <lupine_85> there is a danger of people in here unwittingly becoming complicit in money laundering
1786 2011-05-16 14:37:10 <Blitzboom> eps1: you could have escrow like clearcoin
1787 2011-05-16 14:37:17 <lupine_85> which will be hilarious the first time somone tries to explain it to a judge
1788 2011-05-16 14:38:01 <eps1> yeah escrow services are a must for a large mainstream bitcoin economy
1789 2011-05-16 14:39:10 gasteve has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1790 2011-05-16 14:39:11 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1791 2011-05-16 14:40:05 gavinandresen has joined
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1795 2011-05-16 14:42:41 <eps1> in a sense this media coverage is inevitable
1796 2011-05-16 14:42:54 <eps1> when i first came across bitcoin i was very skeptical
1797 2011-05-16 14:43:01 Nicksasa-Sleep has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1798 2011-05-16 14:43:20 <TD> hmm
1799 2011-05-16 14:43:28 <TD> anything exciting happened in the last couple of weeks?
1800 2011-05-16 14:43:28 <xelister> forums are slashdoted?
1801 2011-05-16 14:43:32 <eps1> but the fact that it has been running for so long with large amounts of money going through has proven it is pretty secure
1802 2011-05-16 14:43:35 <TD> i'm writing a mini news update
1803 2011-05-16 14:43:42 <phantomcircuit> xelister, bitcoin.org is /.'d
1804 2011-05-16 14:43:52 <eps1> so the first step is 1) it will never work
1805 2011-05-16 14:44:05 <xelister> TD: BtcFn is entering first implementation. We can have /really/ anon coins then :)
1806 2011-05-16 14:44:07 <eps1> then 2) it does work, but it is EVIL!
1807 2011-05-16 14:44:12 eQL-[a] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1808 2011-05-16 14:44:22 <eps1> hopefully step is a return to sanity
1809 2011-05-16 14:44:36 <eps1> s/step/step 3/
1810 2011-05-16 14:44:46 <TD> ok
1811 2011-05-16 14:45:33 <xelister> BlueMatt: then write better article, we will upvote it
1812 2011-05-16 14:46:12 <BlueMatt> xelister: lol
1813 2011-05-16 14:46:34 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1814 2011-05-16 14:47:32 <Herodes> "First governments and banks ignore bitcoin, then they ridicule bitcoin, then they fight bitcoin, then bitcoin win."
1815 2011-05-16 14:47:49 <Herodes> ghandi quote
1816 2011-05-16 14:48:00 <iera> onoz what happend to bitcoin.org?
1817 2011-05-16 14:48:09 <Herodes> iera: it got slashdotted
1818 2011-05-16 14:48:21 Jaagu1 has joined
1819 2011-05-16 14:48:21 <iera> huh
1820 2011-05-16 14:48:43 <TD> i sense irrational exuberance ;)
1821 2011-05-16 14:49:30 Jaagu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1822 2011-05-16 14:50:48 <lfm> iera slashdot.org
1823 2011-05-16 14:51:00 <iera> yeah right... just saw it
1824 2011-05-16 14:51:08 <iera> bitcoin.org needs to get in the CLOUD lol
1825 2011-05-16 14:51:22 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1826 2011-05-16 14:52:31 echelon has joined
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1828 2011-05-16 14:53:05 <gavinandresen> bitcoin.org will be served up by sourceforge soon...
1829 2011-05-16 14:53:20 <gavinandresen> (at least,the home page will-- forums will stay behind on the old server)
1830 2011-05-16 14:53:56 <TD> good morning
1831 2011-05-16 14:54:19 <lfm> gavin are you getting any sleep latley?
1832 2011-05-16 14:54:32 <gavinandresen> what, me worry?
1833 2011-05-16 14:54:33 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: I fucking hate the forums
1834 2011-05-16 14:54:50 <Diablo-D3> gavinandresen: seriously, if that fucker goes down one more time, Im going to stab someone
1835 2011-05-16 14:55:16 <noagendamarket> in the face ?
1836 2011-05-16 14:55:31 <lfm> Diablo-D3: thats nothing, you stab people every day I think
1837 2011-05-16 14:55:41 <noagendamarket> slashdot always takes it down
1838 2011-05-16 14:55:44 TheKid has joined
1839 2011-05-16 14:55:52 <gavinandresen> Yeah!  we should FIRE our forum hosting company and THEY should GIVE US OUR MONEY BACK
1840 2011-05-16 14:56:18 <Diablo-D3> I should write forum software
1841 2011-05-16 14:56:19 <Diablo-D3> but honestly
1842 2011-05-16 14:56:23 <Diablo-D3> I hate forums
1843 2011-05-16 14:56:28 <Diablo-D3> annoying fucking piles of shit
1844 2011-05-16 14:56:30 <_ape> irc 4 lyfe
1845 2011-05-16 14:56:37 <Diablo-D3> _ape: damned straight
1846 2011-05-16 14:56:43 <BlueMatt> we also need support for bitcoin: links
1847 2011-05-16 14:56:58 <Diablo-D3> I mean, its bad enough I have to fucking write pool software
1848 2011-05-16 14:57:36 <Kiba> bitcoin forum down?
1849 2011-05-16 14:57:41 <BlueMatt> Kiba: /.
1850 2011-05-16 14:57:49 <Kiba> I don't think it's slashdot
1851 2011-05-16 14:58:14 glassresistor has joined
1852 2011-05-16 14:58:14 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
1853 2011-05-16 14:58:14 glassresistor has joined
1854 2011-05-16 14:58:31 <Kiba> it's more of the combined weight of the usual traffic + multiple source of traffic
1855 2011-05-16 14:58:37 <gavinandresen> it is boingboing
1856 2011-05-16 14:58:52 <Diablo-D3> you know
1857 2011-05-16 14:58:54 <Kiba> the bitcoin forum generate 1000 posts yo
1858 2011-05-16 14:58:54 <Diablo-D3> fucking boingboing
1859 2011-05-16 14:59:00 <Diablo-D3> I have repeatedly submitted bitcoin urls
1860 2011-05-16 14:59:05 <Diablo-D3> the one that FINALLY makes it?
1861 2011-05-16 14:59:07 <Diablo-D3> NOT MINE
1862 2011-05-16 14:59:51 <Kiba> I don't see a bitcoin article on boingboing
1863 2011-05-16 15:00:18 <Kiba> the bitcoin forum generate a thousand posts a day at the very least, without breaking a sweat
1864 2011-05-16 15:00:45 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1865 2011-05-16 15:00:46 <noagendamarket> youre not jason calacanis
1866 2011-05-16 15:00:48 <Diablo-D3> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/15/bitcoin-a-new-peer-t.html
1867 2011-05-16 15:00:52 * noagendamarket ducks
1868 2011-05-16 15:01:23 <noagendamarket> twas also on techmeme
1869 2011-05-16 15:01:28 <noagendamarket> at the same time
1870 2011-05-16 15:01:37 <Kiba> Jesus.
1871 2011-05-16 15:01:43 <noagendamarket> no wonder the forum went down
1872 2011-05-16 15:02:01 <noagendamarket> slashdot finished it off
1873 2011-05-16 15:02:06 <Kiba> Gavin Andresen's clearcoin service appears on hacker news
1874 2011-05-16 15:02:13 <Kiba> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2552595
1875 2011-05-16 15:02:13 <noagendamarket> after hacker news raeped it
1876 2011-05-16 15:02:30 <Kiba> Jesus, what is with hacker news?
1877 2011-05-16 15:02:42 <eps1> i wish i wasn't at work, i could quite enjoyably spend the next couple of hours trolling slashdot
1878 2011-05-16 15:02:49 <noagendamarket> heh
1879 2011-05-16 15:03:01 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, who runs bitcoin.org?
1880 2011-05-16 15:03:13 <noagendamarket> someone wrote a script that removes bitcoin mentions from hacker news
1881 2011-05-16 15:03:39 TheKid has quit (Quit: TheKid)
1882 2011-05-16 15:03:42 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: I think gavin does now
1883 2011-05-16 15:04:28 <johnlockwood> hah, clearcoin's free/fee threshold is now over $800
1884 2011-05-16 15:04:29 <Kiba> noagendamarket: so somebody got so angry that they decides to flag bitcoin articles?
1885 2011-05-16 15:04:30 bk128 has joined
1886 2011-05-16 15:04:31 <lulzplzkthx> LOL http://i.imgur.com/SwTA1.png
1887 2011-05-16 15:04:56 <Raccoon> how can i avoid this crap
1888 2011-05-16 15:04:57 <Raccoon> "Your entire order can't be filled at that price. What remains is stored in your open orders."
1889 2011-05-16 15:05:16 <Raccoon> it constantly creates a secondary order, even orders of 0 BTC
1890 2011-05-16 15:05:25 <gavinandresen> Martti Malmi has been webmaster for bitcoin.org, although he was trying to replace himself last I heard...
1891 2011-05-16 15:05:36 <phantomcircuit> Raccoon, make sure 100% of your order can be filled at the price you put forward?
1892 2011-05-16 15:05:43 <Raccoon> yes.
1893 2011-05-16 15:06:11 <Raccoon> {"status":"<br>Your entire order can't be filled at that price. What remains is stored in your open orders.","usds":71.14,"btcs":0,"ticker":{"high":8.5,"low":6.2,"vol":39501,"buy":8.14,"sell":8.237},"orders":[{"oid":"xxxxxx","type":2,"amount":11.12,"price":6.4,"status":"1","dark":"0","date":"1305557896"},{"oid":"xxxxxx","type":2,"amount":0,"price":6.4,"status":"2","dark":"0","date":"1305557896"}]}
1894 2011-05-16 15:06:18 <johnlockwood> Raccoon:  I've had the most success with trading 10 bitcoins or less at a time
1895 2011-05-16 15:06:27 <sirius> no idea what's wrong with the server; processes running, memory ok, cpu usage ok
1896 2011-05-16 15:06:34 Guest32912 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1897 2011-05-16 15:07:31 <Raccoon> its kind of stupid that mtgox is creating orders of 0 BTC
1898 2011-05-16 15:07:34 <phantomcircuit> sirius, simple case of not enough bandwidth?
1899 2011-05-16 15:08:03 <sirius> the static front page will be moved to sourceforge project web, it should scale better
1900 2011-05-16 15:08:03 <phantomcircuit> Raccoon, seems like a bug
1901 2011-05-16 15:08:03 <Raccoon> they must have a rounding error
1902 2011-05-16 15:08:06 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, ^
1903 2011-05-16 15:08:15 <Raccoon> any mtgox staff here?
1904 2011-05-16 15:08:26 <sirius> now we got the domain name from satoshi, so forum server can also be relocated
1905 2011-05-16 15:08:35 <phantomcircuit> Raccoon, staff? lol there is MagicalTux
1906 2011-05-16 15:08:43 <Raccoon> ok
1907 2011-05-16 15:08:49 <Raccoon> is there any MagicalTux here?
1908 2011-05-16 15:08:54 Jere has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1909 2011-05-16 15:09:20 <sirius> phantomcircuit: it's rackspace.com hosting now, I thought they have good connections
1910 2011-05-16 15:09:22 <BlueMatt> sirius: ooo, you got the domain, nice...any eta on ssl cert?
1911 2011-05-16 15:09:31 <phantomcircuit> sirius, they should
1912 2011-05-16 15:09:44 <phantomcircuit> sirius, you sure that the process is up and cpu/mem usage are in line?
1913 2011-05-16 15:10:04 BurningToad1 has joined
1914 2011-05-16 15:10:23 <TD> sirius: iotop?
1915 2011-05-16 15:10:42 <Jaagu1> sirius: has satoshi explained his retirement?
1916 2011-05-16 15:10:48 <phantomcircuit> TD, it's a static page hdd contention seems unlikely
1917 2011-05-16 15:11:20 <Kiba> sirius: are you going to relocate to a server that will be paid in bitcoin?
1918 2011-05-16 15:15:25 <TheAncientGoat> bitcoin.org down?
1919 2011-05-16 15:15:47 <TheAncientGoat> o
1920 2011-05-16 15:15:50 <TheAncientGoat> slashdotted
1921 2011-05-16 15:16:06 Pander has joined
1922 2011-05-16 15:16:09 <Pander> http://thisweekin.com/thisweekin-startups/bitcoin-discussion-with-gavin-andresen-and-amir-taaki-on-this-week-in-startups-140/
1923 2011-05-16 15:17:54 ezl has joined
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1925 2011-05-16 15:18:57 <sirius> TD: iotop ok
1926 2011-05-16 15:20:39 <sirius> is the bitcoin client automatically paying a 0.01 fee btw?
1927 2011-05-16 15:20:44 <sirius> for every transaction
1928 2011-05-16 15:21:53 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1929 2011-05-16 15:21:59 <Diablo-D3> sirius: basically
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1938 2011-05-16 15:34:41 asker1244 has joined
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1940 2011-05-16 15:35:41 <asker1244> Question: What server regulates the bitcoin bounty?
1941 2011-05-16 15:35:52 <sipa> Answer: none
1942 2011-05-16 15:36:11 <asker1244> Is it distributed then?
1943 2011-05-16 15:36:22 <sipa> if you would modify your client to give yourself a higher bounty, your block and the transactions based on it would simply be ignored by other clients
1944 2011-05-16 15:36:41 <sipa> ie, considered invalid
1945 2011-05-16 15:37:03 <asker1244> unless you have more than 1/2 the network?
1946 2011-05-16 15:37:09 <sipa> even then
1947 2011-05-16 15:37:53 <sipa> having more than 1/2 of the network would allow you to double-spend and to arbitrarily allow and deny other people's transactions
1948 2011-05-16 15:38:14 <sipa> but it will still not allow you to break the basic protocol rules, such as the block award
1949 2011-05-16 15:38:45 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: you need 80%+ to do that, yes?
1950 2011-05-16 15:38:46 Schematografter has joined
1951 2011-05-16 15:38:51 <jrmithdobbs> break protocol rules, i mean
1952 2011-05-16 15:38:59 vorlov has joined
1953 2011-05-16 15:39:12 <sipa> you just can't
1954 2011-05-16 15:39:12 <jrmithdobbs> (with the hashing power behind at least one of them to gen blocks fast)
1955 2011-05-16 15:39:13 <jgarzik> you need clients to agree, in addition to miner collusion.  otherwise, miners self-select themselves away from the clients with bitcoins.
1956 2011-05-16 15:39:35 <jgarzik> clients still verify blocks, and refuse to relay or store invalid blocks
1957 2011-05-16 15:39:40 luke-jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1958 2011-05-16 15:39:48 <asker1244> hrm , so if someone made an update to the software that was hacked it could change the bounty?
1959 2011-05-16 15:39:48 <jgarzik> so client population is relevant, in addition to raw network power
1960 2011-05-16 15:40:01 <jrmithdobbs> but if you control 80% of client nodes you can decide what they see as valid
1961 2011-05-16 15:40:06 <jgarzik> asker1244: if the majority of miners _and_ clients upgrade, yes
1962 2011-05-16 15:40:08 <asker1244> if enough people downloaded the hacked client
1963 2011-05-16 15:40:20 <sipa> asker1244: yes, but it would effectively form a fork of the network, and only people who have the hacked client would see the hacked blocks
1964 2011-05-16 15:41:04 <jgarzik> asker1244: that is a highly unlikely scenario.  people would immediately notice.
1965 2011-05-16 15:41:38 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1966 2011-05-16 15:42:02 <asker1244> well, if automatic updates come into effect, it might not be noticed before enough people notice
1967 2011-05-16 15:42:18 <asker1244> that is, before the damage is done
1968 2011-05-16 15:42:27 <jgarzik> asker1244: automatic updates aren't coming.  and enough people will notice, especially miners.
1969 2011-05-16 15:42:35 Blitzboom_ has joined
1970 2011-05-16 15:42:56 <jgarzik> asker1244: that kind of change will only occur in plain sight, with everybody agreeing
1971 2011-05-16 15:43:06 luke-jr has quit (otg!~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1972 2011-05-16 15:43:44 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: automatic updates aren't coming?
1973 2011-05-16 15:43:57 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: client updates?  no.
1974 2011-05-16 15:43:58 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1975 2011-05-16 15:44:05 <asker1244> should get a computer scientist to mathematically prove the bitcoin code then, since there isn't any automatic updates to fix bugs
1976 2011-05-16 15:44:10 <jrmithdobbs> asker1244: update notification, maybe but not auto
1977 2011-05-16 15:44:17 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I was under the impression 0.4.0 would notify users of new versions via gitian stuff
1978 2011-05-16 15:44:19 <TD> i suspect the full node software won't ever auto update and will become confined to servers in future
1979 2011-05-16 15:44:22 <jgarzik> asker1244: codebases will always have bugs
1980 2011-05-16 15:44:25 <TD> end users will run SPV clients and they will auto update
1981 2011-05-16 15:44:30 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1982 2011-05-16 15:44:31 <BlueMatt> though it has never been discussed
1983 2011-05-16 15:44:32 <jrmithdobbs> asker1244: auto updates on this type of system will just be rejected/turned off by miners anyways
1984 2011-05-16 15:44:35 <TD> but they don't take part in mining so it's not such a big deal. they can't change the rules of the system.
1985 2011-05-16 15:44:43 <asker1244> not if you mathematically prove it...
1986 2011-05-16 15:44:55 <gavinandresen> asker1244:  getting a computer scientist to prove the code is a great idea-- go for it!
1987 2011-05-16 15:45:00 <TD> asker1244: there's not much point trying to do that, given that nobody ever proved cryptography itself to be sound
1988 2011-05-16 15:45:05 <TD> oh, lol :)
1989 2011-05-16 15:45:10 <jrmithdobbs> asker1244: find me a miner with >2Ghash that's not running at least a slightly modified bitcoind
1990 2011-05-16 15:45:13 <jrmithdobbs> asker1244: they don't exist
1991 2011-05-16 15:45:16 <TD> well i guess you can accept whichever answer you like
1992 2011-05-16 15:45:22 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1993 2011-05-16 15:45:24 <jrmithdobbs> asker1244: hence, miners will not take auto updates ever
1994 2011-05-16 15:45:25 <BlueMatt> so: proposal: bitcoin users get notified of new versions that are signed by x devs when they launch via the gitian stuff
1995 2011-05-16 15:45:37 <BlueMatt> starting with 0.4.0 and the gitian stuff
1996 2011-05-16 15:46:16 <jrmithdobbs> asker1244: even if their bitcoind isn't modified they are probably not running off official binaries
1997 2011-05-16 15:46:37 vabole_ has joined
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1999 2011-05-16 15:47:06 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: that seems overly complicated.   A https GET from sourceforge to get the latest version number aught to be sufficient (or something similar....)
2000 2011-05-16 15:47:27 <BlueMatt> or that...either way, jgarzik said he didnt want that...
2001 2011-05-16 15:47:38 <BlueMatt> hence I brought it up
2002 2011-05-16 15:47:46 vabole has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2003 2011-05-16 15:47:48 vabole_ is now known as vabole
2004 2011-05-16 15:48:36 <gavinandresen> I'll say it again: I think the future is for bitcoin-the-application to disappear; we'll all be using bitcoin on our mobile phones and via web services.
2005 2011-05-16 15:48:58 <BlueMatt> great...the future, and for now?
2006 2011-05-16 15:49:18 <BlueMatt> either way thats not really our job, we build the best client we can and let users figure it ou
2007 2011-05-16 15:49:20 <gavinandresen> For now, us geeks can deal with manually updating when there is a new release.
2008 2011-05-16 15:49:21 <BlueMatt> t
2009 2011-05-16 15:49:33 <lfm> so the miners will dissapear?
2010 2011-05-16 15:49:40 <gavinandresen> The current client is absolutely not a non-geek-friendly tool anyway.
2011 2011-05-16 15:49:42 <BlueMatt> lfm: who said taht?
2012 2011-05-16 15:49:55 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: and we shouldnt try to make it a bit more friendly?
2013 2011-05-16 15:49:57 <Kiba> I wonder how bitcoin was invented
2014 2011-05-16 15:50:02 <Kiba> Satoshi said it took him two years
2015 2011-05-16 15:50:03 <sipa> i hope bitcoin-the-application's codebase will eventually turn into a libbitcoin, that becomes the de-facto standard for bitcoin-based services that run full nodes
2016 2011-05-16 15:50:09 <gavinandresen> In the future, miners will be incredibly specialized operations that require a lot of capital investment to start.
2017 2011-05-16 15:50:25 <BlueMatt> yep
2018 2011-05-16 15:50:34 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2019 2011-05-16 15:50:38 <gmaxwell> Awesome: Bitcoin developers believe bitcoin's future is to become centeralized.
2020 2011-05-16 15:50:46 <phantomcircuit>   gavinandresen no kidding
2021 2011-05-16 15:50:48 <BlueMatt> not what was said
2022 2011-05-16 15:50:49 <lfm> gmaxwell: no
2023 2011-05-16 15:51:07 <sipa> centralized? hell no? mining accessible to anyone? economics just won't allow that
2024 2011-05-16 15:51:14 <BlueMatt> he said people will be using it in many places outside of the mainline client...in fact many wont be using mainline client
2025 2011-05-16 15:51:17 <gmaxwell> I wasn't talking about mining.
2026 2011-05-16 15:51:25 <gmaxwell> I was talking about everyone using webservices for wallets.
2027 2011-05-16 15:51:31 <BlueMatt> he said people will be using it in many places outside of the mainline client...in fact many wont be using mainline client
2028 2011-05-16 15:51:32 <Kiba> right now, pool mining basically dominate the hashing power of the network
2029 2011-05-16 15:51:40 <iera> webservice doesnt mean you cant host it yourself gmaxwell
2030 2011-05-16 15:51:47 <lfm> gmaxwell: didnt say that either
2031 2011-05-16 15:51:59 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: why not quote instead of mis-state?
2032 2011-05-16 15:52:00 <gmaxwell> 08:42 < gavinandresen> I'll say it again: I think the future is for  bitcoin-the-application to disappear; we'll all be  using bitcoin on our mobile phones and via web  services.
2033 2011-05-16 15:52:01 <xelister> in the land of the brave  <_<
2034 2011-05-16 15:52:04 <xelister> in the land of the free >_>
2035 2011-05-16 15:52:06 <xelister> I wonder when bitcoin will be illegalized =)
2036 2011-05-16 15:52:14 <sipa> and the entry difficulty for becoming a webhosted bitcoin wallet provider will be trivial, compared to a web-accessible bank
2037 2011-05-16 15:52:15 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: which doesnt mean centralized
2038 2011-05-16 15:52:28 <sipa> so... lots of competition!
2039 2011-05-16 15:52:34 <lfm> gmaxwell: so the web services will be secondary, not primary
2040 2011-05-16 15:52:42 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: look at webcoin...not really centralized
2041 2011-05-16 15:53:00 Stellar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2042 2011-05-16 15:53:00 <lfm> gmaxwell: and plural web services are not singular centralized
2043 2011-05-16 15:53:26 <gmaxwell> Saying that the software will become a web application backend or replaced by webapplication back end isn't quite the same.
2044 2011-05-16 15:53:30 <Kiba> hmm
2045 2011-05-16 15:53:41 <Kiba> the bitcoin forum is the coffeehouse of the bitcoin community
2046 2011-05-16 15:53:47 <BlueMatt> anyway...back to what I tried to bring up, what do people think about automatic notification of updates via gitian downloader which can chainload bitcoin and handle verification before start
2047 2011-05-16 15:53:51 <jgarzik> the coffeehouse is full right now
2048 2011-05-16 15:54:08 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: "there is a new update" notification is fine
2049 2011-05-16 15:54:11 <Kiba> the coffeehouse gave us the age of enlightenment
2050 2011-05-16 15:54:28 <Kiba> so, too will the bitcoin forum drive bitcoin innovation
2051 2011-05-16 15:54:32 <lfm> gmaxwell: there will raimain plenty of technical type people who are capable of running full clients for a long time I think
2052 2011-05-16 15:54:34 <BlueMatt> ok, thats what I was thinking, new update + download now button
2053 2011-05-16 15:54:44 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2054 2011-05-16 15:54:50 vabole_ has joined
2055 2011-05-16 15:54:57 <gmaxwell> lfm: there are many alternatives in the non-bitcoin currency ecosystem. That doesn't mean that these systems have the properties of a decentralized system. If we reach a point where only large entities run the protocol then it becomes trivial to legislate changes to the protocol.
2056 2011-05-16 15:55:13 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: no
2057 2011-05-16 15:55:31 <TD> gmaxwell: depends if you think the internet is decentralized or not
2058 2011-05-16 15:55:33 Bobbinton has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2059 2011-05-16 15:55:33 <TD> is it?
2060 2011-05-16 15:55:34 <gmaxwell> And I'm a bit shocked that someone would even suggest that future line of development, since it adds uncertanty to the future behavior of bitcoin.
2061 2011-05-16 15:55:36 <BlueMatt> it still means its a decentralized system as long as end-users can run their own node
2062 2011-05-16 15:55:38 vabole has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2063 2011-05-16 15:55:47 vabole_ is now known as vabole
2064 2011-05-16 15:55:53 <TD> on one hand it clearly is decentralized. the internet is a mesh of networks which use p2p broadcast to establish global routing. doesn't get more P2P than that.
2065 2011-05-16 15:55:54 <gavinandresen> "Large entities" run the internet backbone routers....
2066 2011-05-16 15:56:00 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: no, it doesnt...plus its what most people have been saying for a long time
2067 2011-05-16 15:56:04 <TD> on the other hand most users access it via ISPs and "hang off the edge" rather than act as true peers themselves
2068 2011-05-16 15:56:08 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: if they are an insiginficant part of the network then their idea of how the protocol works is not relevant.
2069 2011-05-16 15:56:16 <TD> so it's all in the eye of the beholder
2070 2011-05-16 15:56:18 <xelister> gmaxwell: maybe he took cia visit too well
2071 2011-05-16 15:56:40 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: and which has provide an excellent regulatory hook on the internet.
2072 2011-05-16 15:57:08 <TD> yes
2073 2011-05-16 15:57:15 <TD> yet the internet is still pretty wild west, all things considered
2074 2011-05-16 15:57:22 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: really?  how?
2075 2011-05-16 15:57:53 <BlueMatt> anyway, back to bitcoin...since everyone thinks the client is so un-noob-friendly, what is actually needed?  Ive got some free time coming up...suggestions?
2076 2011-05-16 15:58:05 <TD> getheaders at startup :p
2077 2011-05-16 15:58:10 <TD> gavin already said he'd work on that though
2078 2011-05-16 15:58:22 <gavinandresen> yeah, but I'm going to france for a couple weeks...
2079 2011-05-16 15:58:24 <lfm> gmaxwell: thats relative, if there are a dozen web services in every country, including some countries that are beligerant to outside "influence" it would be pretty hard for regulators to get any foothold
2080 2011-05-16 15:58:32 <TD> a progress bar to indicate how synchronized it is
2081 2011-05-16 15:58:34 <TD> nice! enjoy
2082 2011-05-16 15:58:35 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: er, because ISPs comply with the law, most of them overzealously in fact. E.g. see chillingeffects.org re: how DMCA takedowns are routenly used in malicious ways.
2083 2011-05-16 15:58:35 <sipa> gavinandresen: vacation?
2084 2011-05-16 15:58:39 <BlueMatt> exactly, currently the client isnt great for noobs, but the only things that IMHO are needed are coming pretty soon
2085 2011-05-16 15:58:50 <BlueMatt> wait, gavin, you arent allowed on vacation...keep woring
2086 2011-05-16 15:58:56 <TD> yeah it's not as terrible as people make out. that said, it would still change quite a bit given a real usability study
2087 2011-05-16 15:59:04 <TD> eg "Your Bitcoin address:" implies you only have one
2088 2011-05-16 15:59:08 <TD> confusion results when it changes silently
2089 2011-05-16 15:59:32 <BlueMatt> good point...suggestions?
2090 2011-05-16 15:59:34 <sipa> you just have to look on the technical support forum to see what the most common issues are
2091 2011-05-16 15:59:35 <TD> also frankly the UI just isn't that great .... when you send to somebody you can't add an address book entry simultaneously with spending
2092 2011-05-16 15:59:38 <TD> that's a pretty common operation
2093 2011-05-16 15:59:40 <lfm> and just cuz there may be a majority of users using "noob" type services, doesnt meant the current techies will dissapear
2094 2011-05-16 16:00:15 <jlewis> sipa: i fixed the issue with pull 226; would you mind taking a second look?
2095 2011-05-16 16:00:20 <gmaxwell> In any case, when people interested in bitcoin ask "Why can't the block reward simply be set to a zillion by the miners" the answer is "you'd have to get almost everyone to run modified software to accept these blocks" is mooted in a situation where a smallish number of large orgs run most of the bitcoin protocol.
2096 2011-05-16 16:00:25 <sipa> jlewis: not now, have to hurry, but i will
2097 2011-05-16 16:00:29 <jlewis> thanks
2098 2011-05-16 16:00:45 <sipa> i'm running ubuntu 10.10 amd64 by the way
2099 2011-05-16 16:00:46 <BlueMatt> ok...so better ui + better initial download...frankly its not that bad
2100 2011-05-16 16:00:55 <TD> gmaxwell: i think you need to distinguish between merchants and end users
2101 2011-05-16 16:00:59 <gmaxwell> At that point someone looking to hold wealth in bitcon isn't just taking a gamble on the success of bitcoin, but also a gamble that some authority won't go in and regulate crazy rules that break it.
2102 2011-05-16 16:01:04 <TD> it probably makes sense for merchants to always run full nodes
2103 2011-05-16 16:01:05 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: and your suggestion for fixing that supposed problem is.... what?
2104 2011-05-16 16:01:14 <TD> and there can potentially be hundreds of thousands, perhaps one day millions, of merchants
2105 2011-05-16 16:01:14 <jlewis> sipa: ok - it turns out the issue was on my end, i had turned off DUSE_SSL temporarily which hid some dependenciies
2106 2011-05-16 16:01:18 <TD> but hundreds of thousands are enough
2107 2011-05-16 16:01:30 <TD> end users will probably use a mix of cloud wallets and standalone lightweight wallets
2108 2011-05-16 16:01:34 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: Make the client more usable over the long run, so people aren't forced to use third party hosted clients for usability reasons.
2109 2011-05-16 16:01:36 <TD> just because it's too resource intensive to run full nodes
2110 2011-05-16 16:01:37 <lfm> gmaxwell: the miners are only a small number compared to the "users". they do not have to be any fewer than today and could well be many more
2111 2011-05-16 16:02:20 <TD> at any rate, it's not inherently a bad thing that the rules can be changed if there is global consensus on that
2112 2011-05-16 16:02:23 <gmaxwell> lfm: the economics of it probably favor fewer of them.
2113 2011-05-16 16:02:26 <sipa> btw, anyone ever used qbittorrent? it has an http interface that works almost exactly like the qt interface itself
2114 2011-05-16 16:02:35 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: the future is that there will be many clients and implementations.  Some will be great, some lousy, users will use the great ones and the lousy ones will die
2115 2011-05-16 16:02:39 <lfm> TD> just because it's too resource intensive to run full nodes -> as we have seen that doesnt mean all the inefficient miners give up and quit then
2116 2011-05-16 16:02:46 <sipa> not sure whether that's a feature of qt, or that they did it themselves, but it's really nice
2117 2011-05-16 16:02:52 <asker1244> Question:  I just read on the forum that the "hash trail" keeps all transactions currently, but it could delete old transactions in the future.  How will this be pushed out to bitcoin clients and miners when there is a vested interest in tracking all transactions by governments
2118 2011-05-16 16:02:54 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|anyone ever tried mining on an appletv gpu ?
2119 2011-05-16 16:03:05 <gmaxwell> TD: yes, sure, but what happens when the consensus means "500 largs orgs under four or five regulatory authorities"?
2120 2011-05-16 16:03:06 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: you seem to be suggesting one centralized client....
2121 2011-05-16 16:03:12 coffeee has joined
2122 2011-05-16 16:03:25 <TD> gmaxwell: so what? regulation would be a good end game for bitcoin, imho
2123 2011-05-16 16:03:26 <lfm> Marcel|HSD: doesnt sound promissing
2124 2011-05-16 16:03:27 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: I should have said "a" rather than "the.
2125 2011-05-16 16:03:35 <lianj> TD: thats why i think certified miners/block-chain-publishers will evolve. then you choose two that hate each other and your chances are good both will not agree on running a untrusted protocol or change it
2126 2011-05-16 16:03:40 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|lfm, in terms of speed i gather?
2127 2011-05-16 16:04:05 <TD> asker1244: some nodes will probably never delete transactions
2128 2011-05-16 16:04:08 <TD> asker1244: just because
2129 2011-05-16 16:04:28 <TD> asker1244: at any rate, only old transactions can be deleted. so it doesn't make much difference w.r.t. governments
2130 2011-05-16 16:04:43 <BlueMatt> sirius: whats up with the site, I thought it had fine resources...figured it out?
2131 2011-05-16 16:04:44 <lfm> Marcel|HSD: ya, not sure what gpu it has but I doubt its a really powerful one
2132 2011-05-16 16:04:52 <gmaxwell> TD: then why not just operate a singular regulated centeral clearing house already. Many people are promiting bitcoin in ways which are incompatible with that vision.
2133 2011-05-16 16:05:05 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|lfm,  Go7300 from afaics
2134 2011-05-16 16:05:24 <TD> why not use CompuServe instead of the internet? there isn't a binary choice between "regulated and centralized" and "anarchic and decentralized"
2135 2011-05-16 16:05:24 <lfm> Marcel|HSD: add to that the difficulties of apple support ...
2136 2011-05-16 16:05:26 <TD> it's a spectrum
2137 2011-05-16 16:05:35 <TD> obviously both CompuServe and the internet were 'regulated' in some sense of the word
2138 2011-05-16 16:05:44 <gmaxwell> TD: because compuserv was bought by aol? ;)
2139 2011-05-16 16:05:46 <TD> but there's no question the internet is better than the old centralized BBS systems
2140 2011-05-16 16:05:58 <TD> in particular the internet is a lot _less_ regulated
2141 2011-05-16 16:06:06 <TD> it works out pretty well for most people
2142 2011-05-16 16:06:07 <lfm> td yes, compuserve and aol were gonna be huge by now, right?
2143 2011-05-16 16:06:13 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|lfm, yeah, it's just that they are basically free and I got a couple laying around...
2144 2011-05-16 16:06:42 <lfm> Marcel|HSD: the electricity to run them isnt free (for most people)
2145 2011-05-16 16:06:44 <TD> besides bitcoin has many advantages beyond "stick it to the evil gubberment"
2146 2011-05-16 16:06:54 Kurtov has joined
2147 2011-05-16 16:07:21 <gmaxwell> TD: In any case, it would normally be considered an attack to allow a small number of parties to impose control over the system. Right now thats screwed up by there being few clients. It would be no less screwed up by massive hosting consolidation.
2148 2011-05-16 16:07:25 octarine has joined
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2150 2011-05-16 16:07:26 <BlueMatt> if bitcoin's only thing was stick it to the government, there would be no chance for it growing much
2151 2011-05-16 16:07:35 octarine has left ()
2152 2011-05-16 16:07:45 <TD> gmaxwell: yeah but i doubt that will happen
2153 2011-05-16 16:07:55 <gmaxwell> TD: I trust the US goverment a lot more than the bitcoin developers in fact. But I'd rather see the system mature in a way where trust isn't required.
2154 2011-05-16 16:08:00 <TD> gmaxwell: i mean the internet is pretty much decentralized and not under the thumb of any one government. it has on the order of <100,000 networks
2155 2011-05-16 16:08:08 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2156 2011-05-16 16:08:17 <TD> satoshi once said he could imagine the core bitcoin network being less than 100,000 nodes with potentially millions of SPV clients
2157 2011-05-16 16:08:38 <TD> so i think it'd probably go the same way
2158 2011-05-16 16:08:40 <gmaxwell> I guess 100k nodes doesn't bother me.
2159 2011-05-16 16:09:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I agree. Tonal support is a big thing.
2160 2011-05-16 16:09:01 <luke-jr> :P
2161 2011-05-16 16:09:11 <BlueMatt> ...lol
2162 2011-05-16 16:09:26 <lfm> ya, but try to heard 100,000 cats ... regulat 1000.000 nodes around the world
2163 2011-05-16 16:10:13 <directhex> herd.
2164 2011-05-16 16:10:13 <devrandom> good morning all
2165 2011-05-16 16:10:23 <BlueMatt> morning devrandom
2166 2011-05-16 16:10:33 <devrandom> hi BlueMatt
2167 2011-05-16 16:10:53 <BlueMatt> how's it going?
2168 2011-05-16 16:11:00 <gmaxwell> TD: lfm: Fair enough, but this is a far cry from what I heard when I saw 'no client ... webservices', which I found to be pretty alarming.
2169 2011-05-16 16:11:24 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: for the end user, it will be no client ...webservices" that doesnt mean there wont be 10000 nodes
2170 2011-05-16 16:11:35 <devrandom> BlueMatt - good.  nothing new to report.  will be working on the downloader this week
2171 2011-05-16 16:11:36 <BlueMatt> for geeks it will always be run your own node
2172 2011-05-16 16:11:38 asker1244 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2173 2011-05-16 16:11:43 <BlueMatt> devrandom: nice
2174 2011-05-16 16:11:50 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ...as long as you have the bandwidth for it
2175 2011-05-16 16:11:56 <BlueMatt> well yea, that too
2176 2011-05-16 16:12:07 <devrandom> BlueMatt - and yourself?
2177 2011-05-16 16:12:11 <gmaxwell> heh.. 40 mbit/sec to run your wallet.
2178 2011-05-16 16:12:26 <BlueMatt> devrandom: pretty good...almost done with exams and wallet encryption
2179 2011-05-16 16:12:32 <gmaxwell> Hopefully the internet gets working multicast by then.
2180 2011-05-16 16:12:49 <jgarzik> heh
2181 2011-05-16 16:12:58 <lfm> gmaxwell: I can see the original unified software phasing out in favor of more various and perhaps specialized nodes, I think there would still be amateur miners, even if they need to buy some special fpga system or something, but the gpu type miners still seem to have plenty of legs
2182 2011-05-16 16:13:04 <BlueMatt> bitcoin over multicast would be really cool
2183 2011-05-16 16:13:22 <devrandom> BlueMatt - excellent (re encryption)
2184 2011-05-16 16:13:38 slush has joined
2185 2011-05-16 16:13:40 GuruSteve has joined
2186 2011-05-16 16:13:48 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, didn't you say you were going to finish that in a day :P
2187 2011-05-16 16:13:48 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: you'd need blocktx in datagram. jgarzik might yell at you for reinventing TCP. ;)
2188 2011-05-16 16:14:02 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: well I got it 90% done that day, and another 9 the next...
2189 2011-05-16 16:14:11 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: lol, yea
2190 2011-05-16 16:14:23 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: then I got bored and started watching tv
2191 2011-05-16 16:14:55 <BlueMatt> just one minor thing left before a full-scale pull-req (and I need more translations...but then again all the translations are so out of date, why bother anymore?)
2192 2011-05-16 16:15:21 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
2193 2011-05-16 16:15:39 xnyhps has joined
2194 2011-05-16 16:16:06 <TD> morning devrandom
2195 2011-05-16 16:16:21 <devrandom> morning TD
2196 2011-05-16 16:16:23 <TD> gmaxwell: nobody knows how bitcoin will evolve. but a loosely regulated internet-style structure seems most likely to me.
2197 2011-05-16 16:16:27 <TD> or perhaps, most desirable
2198 2011-05-16 16:16:40 <sirius> BlueMatt: https seems to work
2199 2011-05-16 16:17:08 <BlueMatt> sirius: I was saying startssl
2200 2011-05-16 16:17:34 <devrandom> https?  did someone implement it for port 8333?
2201 2011-05-16 16:18:03 <BlueMatt> devrandom: I was talking about bitcoin.org
2202 2011-05-16 16:18:03 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, lol that's how it always is
2203 2011-05-16 16:18:10 vorlov has joined
2204 2011-05-16 16:18:12 <devrandom> ah, ok
2205 2011-05-16 16:18:17 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yep, welcome to floss
2206 2011-05-16 16:18:20 jmorton_ has quit (Quit: jmorton_)
2207 2011-05-16 16:18:35 <sirius> BlueMatt: do they allow subdomains for free? we need forum.bitcoin.org
2208 2011-05-16 16:18:45 <BlueMatt> we have forum.bitcoin.org?
2209 2011-05-16 16:19:16 <BlueMatt> still, it would be better to have a proper cert for bitcoin.org and an invalid one for forum.* than nothing
2210 2011-05-16 16:19:17 <sirius> not yet, but www.bitcoin.org is to host the main page only @ sf.net
2211 2011-05-16 16:19:27 <cenuij> ;;bc,mtgox
2212 2011-05-16 16:19:27 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.5,"low":6.2,"vol":42861,"buy":7.7948,"sell":7.8,"last":7.7947}}
2213 2011-05-16 16:19:30 <sirius> sf.net doesn't support certs
2214 2011-05-16 16:19:39 <BlueMatt> oh
2215 2011-05-16 16:19:45 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2216 2011-05-16 16:19:55 <BlueMatt> well subdomain-only Im not sure about
2217 2011-05-16 16:20:07 <BlueMatt> worth a try
2218 2011-05-16 16:20:42 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2220 2011-05-16 16:22:54 tzb has joined
2221 2011-05-16 16:23:01 rap1st has joined
2222 2011-05-16 16:23:05 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, point www.bitcoin.org @ sf.net, then have bitcoin.org on the dedicated server with a 303
2223 2011-05-16 16:23:35 <phantomcircuit> magic
2224 2011-05-16 16:23:43 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: its up to sirius
2225 2011-05-16 16:23:50 <Kiba> deepbit is sure popular.
2226 2011-05-16 16:23:51 <Kiba> why?
2227 2011-05-16 16:24:09 <jgarzik> Kiba: 1) stability  2) russian
2228 2011-05-16 16:24:20 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
2229 2011-05-16 16:24:28 <mtrlt> and good marketing :P
2230 2011-05-16 16:24:49 <phantomcircuit> sirius,
2231 2011-05-16 16:24:51 <phantomcircuit> dat
2232 2011-05-16 16:25:10 <rap1st> Kiba: its slush's fault hes such a control freak :)
2233 2011-05-16 16:25:44 <jgarzik> no, slush's pool kept going down, often from DDoS
2234 2011-05-16 16:25:45 Herodes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2235 2011-05-16 16:25:46 <jgarzik> people moved
2236 2011-05-16 16:26:24 <rap1st> jgarzik: yeah, thats regular bussiness in .ru. point being its not that hard to protect from ddos via prolexic/cloudflare
2237 2011-05-16 16:27:32 <jgarzik> sirius: are you ever going to update the list of bitcoin devs?  We poked you in email several times...
2238 2011-05-16 16:27:41 <Kiba> I assume the others is occupied by ArtForz
2239 2011-05-16 16:27:50 <Kiba> the rest is occupied by pool miners
2240 2011-05-16 16:28:23 vabole_ has joined
2241 2011-05-16 16:28:46 <sirius> jgarzik: nobody replied when I asked whose names to add. But if you have access to sf.net project web, you can change the page yourself.
2242 2011-05-16 16:29:00 <jgarzik> sirius: the reply was "use github pull-access list"
2243 2011-05-16 16:29:17 <jgarzik> er, push-access
2244 2011-05-16 16:29:42 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2248 2011-05-16 16:30:21 vabole_ is now known as vabole
2249 2011-05-16 16:30:43 <sirius> jgarzik: where's the list?
2250 2011-05-16 16:30:54 peck has joined
2251 2011-05-16 16:31:27 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: afaik, there is no publicly available such list
2252 2011-05-16 16:31:43 <BlueMatt> or is it organization members?
2253 2011-05-16 16:31:48 <gavinandresen> sirius: the list is   gavinandresen jgarzik sipa tcatm
2254 2011-05-16 16:33:02 <BurningToad1> has anyone thought about the possibility of some kind of distributed mining pool?  basically some way to get it back to where everyone is mining idependantly but get smaller / more regular rewards like mining in a pool would do.
2255 2011-05-16 16:33:03 <gavinandresen> (is there a github link to a project's team members???)
2256 2011-05-16 16:33:13 <gavinandresen> afk lunch
2257 2011-05-16 16:33:19 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: just github.com/bitcoin but its not commit access
2258 2011-05-16 16:33:23 <BlueMatt> its just project members
2259 2011-05-16 16:33:34 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: ya there is
2260 2011-05-16 16:33:50 tzb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2261 2011-05-16 16:35:42 peck has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2262 2011-05-16 16:35:46 <TD> BurningToad1: there was some proposal for that floating around yes
2263 2011-05-16 16:35:58 <TD> BurningToad1: i forgot how it worked or whether it seemed solid.
2264 2011-05-16 16:36:02 tzb has joined
2265 2011-05-16 16:36:12 tzb has left ()
2266 2011-05-16 16:36:29 <BurningToad1> seems like it would strengthen the network a lot of it was possible
2267 2011-05-16 16:36:35 <BurningToad1> if*
2268 2011-05-16 16:36:55 <TD> it's complicated
2269 2011-05-16 16:37:10 <BurningToad1> yeah... been trying to think about it and haven't come up with anything good
2270 2011-05-16 16:37:24 <jrmithdobbs> BurningToad1: would require complete network upgrade pretty sure
2271 2011-05-16 16:37:49 <TD> it might be possible to do with distributed contracts
2272 2011-05-16 16:38:00 <BurningToad1> probably... anything but that would probably require a lot of overhead or be easy to cheat
2273 2011-05-16 16:38:12 <TD> for now it's probably better to just have more pool operators
2274 2011-05-16 16:38:15 kika_ has joined
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2276 2011-05-16 16:38:46 <BurningToad1> to me it seems like its mostly stability that is keeping the large operators dominant
2277 2011-05-16 16:38:51 <BurningToad1> the smaller pools are all unstable it seems
2278 2011-05-16 16:39:06 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
2279 2011-05-16 16:39:12 <jrmithdobbs> aye
2280 2011-05-16 16:39:15 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
2281 2011-05-16 16:39:15 Blitzboom has joined
2282 2011-05-16 16:39:23 Schematografter is now known as Moonies
2283 2011-05-16 16:39:41 <jrmithdobbs> BurningToad1: the freely available pool code isn't really in the best state
2284 2011-05-16 16:40:20 <jrmithdobbs> it works but requires babysitting
2285 2011-05-16 16:40:21 <jrmithdobbs> lots of babysitting
2286 2011-05-16 16:40:47 <jrmithdobbs> i think that's one of the main holdups getting competing pools going
2287 2011-05-16 16:40:57 <ArtForz> anyone remember where the spec for X-Time or whatever it's called is?
2288 2011-05-16 16:41:12 peck has joined
2289 2011-05-16 16:41:49 <Kiba> someday, even ArtForz will have no choice but to pool their resource together
2290 2011-05-16 16:42:08 <ArtForz> unlikely
2291 2011-05-16 16:42:27 <ArtForz> so far it seems I can keep growing +- as fast as the network
2292 2011-05-16 16:42:37 <coffeee> ArtForz: how many GhZ are you working with?
2293 2011-05-16 16:43:06 <Kiba> deepbit got nearly half of the network
2294 2011-05-16 16:43:10 <Kiba> how do you feel about that?
2295 2011-05-16 16:43:27 <ArtForz> not concerned
2296 2011-05-16 16:44:24 <ArtForz> plenty people watch the blocks his pool is creating, doing anything nefarious would be noticed very quickly
2297 2011-05-16 16:44:53 <ArtForz> but yeah, better open pool software would help a lot
2298 2011-05-16 16:45:06 ezl has joined
2299 2011-05-16 16:46:35 <jrmithdobbs> speaking of pool code, is there a reason besides complexity that all pool code lives outside of bitcoind instead of strapping it into bitcoind?
2300 2011-05-16 16:46:39 <jrmithdobbs> just wondering justification
2301 2011-05-16 16:46:53 <Kiba> because bitcoin was never about mining
2302 2011-05-16 16:46:54 <jgarzik> ArtForz: no spec
2303 2011-05-16 16:46:59 <ArtForz> complexity, pretty much
2304 2011-05-16 16:47:00 <jgarzik> ArtForz: X-Roll-Ntime
2305 2011-05-16 16:47:12 <jgarzik> ArtForz: poclbm source, really.  pushpool source, after the fact.
2306 2011-05-16 16:47:23 <Kiba> the generate option, I think, got removed?
2307 2011-05-16 16:47:27 <ArtForz> ok, so basically "do it like poclbm"
2308 2011-05-16 16:47:33 <jgarzik> ArtForz: yes
2309 2011-05-16 16:47:34 <ArtForz> I can live with that
2310 2011-05-16 16:47:44 <jrmithdobbs> because with those async rpc io patches putting it inside of bitcoind would probably make it require much less to run
2311 2011-05-16 16:47:48 <jgarzik> ArtForz: current accepted ntime range is -5 min <-> + 2 hours
2312 2011-05-16 16:48:45 <ArtForz> should be no problem, I only run out of nonces every 2.68s
2313 2011-05-16 16:49:14 dddd has joined
2314 2011-05-16 16:49:21 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: because bitcoind is already overbloated
2315 2011-05-16 16:49:26 <ArtForz> except with LP support thats a lot of getworks for no real reason
2316 2011-05-16 16:49:45 <jgarzik> ArtForz: yep; that's what ntime varying was added
2317 2011-05-16 16:49:49 <jgarzik> *why
2318 2011-05-16 16:49:49 dddd has quit (Client Quit)
2319 2011-05-16 16:49:52 <ArtForz> yep
2320 2011-05-16 16:50:32 <rap1st> so i take it, has anyone already tried using few bits of the time field as a nonce extension?
2321 2011-05-16 16:50:57 jgarzik has quit (Quit: man cave)
2322 2011-05-16 16:51:03 <luke-jr> rap1st: time is not arbitrary
2323 2011-05-16 16:51:18 <rap1st> well, +- hour variance is accepted by the network
2324 2011-05-16 16:51:23 <neoeinstein_> While you run out of nonces in more than 1 second, it would not be needed.
2325 2011-05-16 16:51:41 <ArtForz> and you have to build something rather weird to need more that 2**32 nonces/s/miner ...
2326 2011-05-16 16:51:52 <ArtForz> *more than
2327 2011-05-16 16:51:54 <jrmithdobbs> neoeinstein_: you can get much finer time than 1s on most modern hardware
2328 2011-05-16 16:52:06 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2329 2011-05-16 16:52:21 <rap1st> ArtForz: i meant it in regards of pooled mining, to save some getworks.
2330 2011-05-16 16:52:31 <ArtForz> nTime is a 1s resolution unix timestamp (well, more or less...)
2331 2011-05-16 16:52:50 <ArtForz> rap1st: thats exactly what X-Roll-Ntime is for
2332 2011-05-16 16:53:18 <rap1st> oh i see
2333 2011-05-16 16:53:24 * rap1st being too ignorant goes to rtfm
2334 2011-05-16 16:53:26 <ArtForz> = miners can update nTime locally without having to request new work
2335 2011-05-16 16:54:08 <luke-jr> hmm
2336 2011-05-16 16:54:42 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2337 2011-05-16 16:54:49 TD has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2338 2011-05-16 16:55:22 <ArtForz> luke-jr: what are you hmming about?
2339 2011-05-16 16:56:32 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: ya but things like blckmon are kinda dumb when the pool could just keep a blockchain copy for instance
2340 2011-05-16 16:57:20 DukeOfURL has joined
2341 2011-05-16 16:57:23 <luke-jr> ArtForz: pondering it pushpool maybe shouldn't discard getworks sent over 5 minutes ago
2342 2011-05-16 16:57:49 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: that makes no sense
2343 2011-05-16 16:58:04 ntosme2 has joined
2344 2011-05-16 16:59:26 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: did i misread how blckmon works?
2345 2011-05-16 16:59:51 <ArtForz> btw, imo X-Roll-NTime missed a big opportunity
2346 2011-05-16 17:02:51 Teslah has joined
2347 2011-05-16 17:03:06 <rap1st> ArtForz: I only run out of nonces every 2.68s <- you mean 32bits on a single 5970 or your whole cluster?
2348 2011-05-16 17:03:16 <ArtForz> one of my asic modules
2349 2011-05-16 17:03:22 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2350 2011-05-16 17:03:33 <ArtForz> would've loved a LP-style system that returns a getwork response whenever the pool updates the tx list (or feels like it)
2351 2011-05-16 17:03:35 <rap1st> oh, pioneers of fpga mining. sweet
2352 2011-05-16 17:03:50 <ArtForz> 1.6Ghps
2353 2011-05-16 17:04:11 <ArtForz> = runs through the full 2**32 nonce space in ~2.68s
2354 2011-05-16 17:04:42 <rap1st> at 1/10 the power consumption of gpu, im well aware of its possibilities
2355 2011-05-16 17:05:06 <rap1st> just didnt expect someone to get xiling/atmel/whomever to build asic out of fpga design, kinda expensive fun
2356 2011-05-16 17:06:36 sethsethseth__ has joined
2357 2011-05-16 17:06:48 sethsethseth_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2358 2011-05-16 17:06:59 <ArtForz> well, xilinx artix7 FPGAs should be fun when they come out if they can keep $/slice*clock <= S6
2359 2011-05-16 17:07:18 <ArtForz> only thing that prevents S6s from being competetive is that they're too small
2360 2011-05-16 17:07:48 <ArtForz> well, too small to fit a fully unrolled double-pipelined bitcoinhash
2361 2011-05-16 17:07:49 <rap1st> well, my estimate for gates was in the orders of hundreds of gates
2362 2011-05-16 17:07:55 <rap1st> but yet again, my vhdl skills suck
2363 2011-05-16 17:08:01 sethsethseth has joined
2364 2011-05-16 17:08:05 <rap1st> hundreds K
2365 2011-05-16 17:08:23 <ArtForz> how the hell would that work?
2366 2011-05-16 17:08:31 <rap1st> oh, unrolled.
2367 2011-05-16 17:09:01 <rap1st> even more expensive iron, yeah
2368 2011-05-16 17:09:27 <ArtForz> you need ~170k FFs for a pipelined core
2369 2011-05-16 17:09:53 <ArtForz> and a lot of fast adders
2370 2011-05-16 17:10:01 <ArtForz> the rest isnt really too bad
2371 2011-05-16 17:11:06 sethsethseth__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2372 2011-05-16 17:11:12 <eps1> regarding merchants running their own nodes
2373 2011-05-16 17:11:27 <eps1> why would they do that?
2374 2011-05-16 17:11:30 <ArtForz> I'm pretty sure adders are pretty much always the critical path
2375 2011-05-16 17:11:59 <eps1> they would need to invest heavily in order to mine
2376 2011-05-16 17:12:14 <eps1> so most would just outsource it no?
2377 2011-05-16 17:12:17 <rap1st> eps1: its not actually that expensive, yet
2378 2011-05-16 17:12:29 <rap1st> and asic designers like ArtForz could do that, for a price
2379 2011-05-16 17:12:53 <eps1> rap1st: i am talking about the future assuming bitcoin is popular
2380 2011-05-16 17:12:59 <rap1st> yeah
2381 2011-05-16 17:13:12 <eps1> i am wondering if there will be a market for a bitcoin node box
2382 2011-05-16 17:13:16 <rap1st> banking industry will sure catch on with dedicated huge hashing iron
2383 2011-05-16 17:13:22 Bosma has joined
2384 2011-05-16 17:13:26 <eps1> something a merchant just plugs into there network
2385 2011-05-16 17:13:30 <eps1> doesn't mine
2386 2011-05-16 17:13:40 <eps1> but has a web interface and webservices
2387 2011-05-16 17:13:42 <rap1st> eps1: oh, you mean debit cards and temrinals
2388 2011-05-16 17:13:46 Bosma has left ()
2389 2011-05-16 17:13:50 <vegard> at least 200k gates for 2x sha256
2390 2011-05-16 17:14:01 <eps1> so all their infractructure would talk to it for payments
2391 2011-05-16 17:14:16 <eps1> rap1st: thinking more about mom and pop shops
2392 2011-05-16 17:14:19 <rap1st> vegard: you dont really need complete/whole sha256 thouhgh
2393 2011-05-16 17:14:36 jivvz has joined
2394 2011-05-16 17:14:55 <vegard> rap1st: no, that's approximately what you need for brute-forcing bitcoin blocks :)
2395 2011-05-16 17:15:08 <rap1st> oh :)
2396 2011-05-16 17:15:29 tduke has joined
2397 2011-05-16 17:15:33 <rap1st> still fpgas are not viable imo, only custom asic
2398 2011-05-16 17:15:34 <BlueMatt> you can skip several rounds of sha for bitcoin
2399 2011-05-16 17:15:35 kika_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2400 2011-05-16 17:15:39 <ArtForz> vegard: that doesnt sound like a pipelined engine
2401 2011-05-16 17:15:46 <rap1st> BlueMatt: only the compression function
2402 2011-05-16 17:16:21 TheKid has joined
2403 2011-05-16 17:16:52 <vegard> ArtForz: ah, pipelining I don't know about. that estimate is for a single circuit that takes nonce as input and gives a true/false
2404 2011-05-16 17:17:02 <ArtForz> = slow as hell
2405 2011-05-16 17:17:47 <ArtForz> you have a 5-input 32-bit adder per round and the output of it feeds into the next rounds 5-input adder
2406 2011-05-16 17:17:51 <rap1st> yeah, part of the adder iron can be reused
2407 2011-05-16 17:18:26 <ArtForz> = you pretty much need pipeline stages to break the critical path unless you're aiming for < 100Mhz max clock
2408 2011-05-16 17:19:09 <rap1st> inb4 sat solvers will ruin the whole bruteforcing thing :)
2409 2011-05-16 17:19:50 <vegard> they won't in the near future.
2410 2011-05-16 17:20:01 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2411 2011-05-16 17:20:01 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.5,"low":6.2131,"vol":41756,"buy":7.8,"sell":7.8398,"last":7.8}}
2412 2011-05-16 17:20:06 <vegard> they might as difficulty goes up, though.
2413 2011-05-16 17:20:09 <ArtForz> adding one pipeline stage per round you can break that into 2- and 3-input 32 bit adders, which have quite a bit less delay
2414 2011-05-16 17:20:38 <rap1st> vegard: yep. combined sat probe/bruteforce deeper down is to be expected
2415 2011-05-16 17:20:38 <mtrlt> how do you even convert this to a sat problem :S
2416 2011-05-16 17:20:56 <rap1st> mtrlt: :) every cryptohash is sat problem
2417 2011-05-16 17:20:58 roconnor has joined
2418 2011-05-16 17:21:03 <mtrlt> yeah
2419 2011-05-16 17:21:05 Herodes has joined
2420 2011-05-16 17:21:19 <mtrlt> but.. just one add is a horribly long thing with just like xor,and,or :P
2421 2011-05-16 17:21:28 Jaagu has joined
2422 2011-05-16 17:21:36 <vegard> yep. the adders really kill sat solvers
2423 2011-05-16 17:21:40 <rap1st> cryptominisat has xor
2424 2011-05-16 17:21:40 <ArtForz> you can't, otherwise sha256 would be broken...
2425 2011-05-16 17:22:02 <rap1st> ArtForz: remember, this is truncated sha256 we're talking about
2426 2011-05-16 17:22:13 <mtrlt> truncated double sha256
2427 2011-05-16 17:22:24 <rap1st> still theres enough room in the output
2428 2011-05-16 17:22:31 <ArtForz> yeah, "only" ~120 rounds ...
2429 2011-05-16 17:22:57 <ArtForz> btw, the adds are what's providing nonlinearity in sha256
2430 2011-05-16 17:23:03 <rap1st> sure
2431 2011-05-16 17:23:10 <ArtForz> without em it'd be completely linear and reversible
2432 2011-05-16 17:23:17 <rap1st> add + xor + and combined, to be exact
2433 2011-05-16 17:23:25 <rap1st> add/xor alone can be solved
2434 2011-05-16 17:24:46 <roconnor> I though the ch and maj were the non-linear elements
2435 2011-05-16 17:25:33 <jmpespxoreax> everything that throws out information is what any hash relies on
2436 2011-05-16 17:25:41 <rap1st> well the whole thing gets a bit more apparent if you lookup why sha0 was ditched
2437 2011-05-16 17:25:50 <rap1st> a lot of this nonlinearity can be approximated
2438 2011-05-16 17:26:49 <rap1st> jmpespxoreax: pigeon hole. the fun thing about bitcoin is, though you need to hit only 50 bits or so
2439 2011-05-16 17:27:04 <roconnor> I missed the topic.  What is truncated about the double sha256?
2440 2011-05-16 17:27:21 <vegard> only 50 bits of the output is actually "used"
2441 2011-05-16 17:27:27 <vegard> *are
2442 2011-05-16 17:27:30 <roconnor> used in what?
2443 2011-05-16 17:27:38 <rap1st> to win the round
2444 2011-05-16 17:27:38 <vegard> hitting the target
2445 2011-05-16 17:27:48 <jmpespxoreax> I imagine that due to the nature of the hash algo, that doesn't matter - every bit is used in the computation of those 50 bits
2446 2011-05-16 17:27:59 <rap1st> sure
2447 2011-05-16 17:28:09 <roconnor> you are refering to the leading zeros?
2448 2011-05-16 17:28:12 <rap1st> point being is sat solver can narrow "lucky" scenarios
2449 2011-05-16 17:28:32 <rap1st> so you dont waste bruteforcing power on less "lucky" imput combos
2450 2011-05-16 17:29:19 <vegard> roconnor: yes
2451 2011-05-16 17:30:06 Jaagu has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2452 2011-05-16 17:31:17 <comboy> how much probability enchancement that could give you compared to percentage of time lost due to not checking hashes with pure bruteforce
2453 2011-05-16 17:31:41 <comboy> while solving
2454 2011-05-16 17:31:57 <rap1st> comboy: nowadays, you statistically probe for "lucky bits"
2455 2011-05-16 17:32:16 <rap1st> for example, take all solved blocks and try to find bias in the input ripemd160/nonce
2456 2011-05-16 17:32:18 soossii has joined
2457 2011-05-16 17:32:22 <Xunie> Peoples. I'm gonna make my mining rig (2 separate computers). I've already planned on using 4-way SLI on both.
2458 2011-05-16 17:32:32 <comboy> been there ;p
2459 2011-05-16 17:32:43 <rap1st> comboy: yes, there are none :)
2460 2011-05-16 17:32:44 <TheKid> Xunie: lol SLI
2461 2011-05-16 17:32:59 <mologie> SLI is nvidia
2462 2011-05-16 17:33:10 <mologie> and Nvidia has cippled GPUs
2463 2011-05-16 17:33:22 <Xunie> Yes, and I can run OpenCL with 4-way SLI, right?
2464 2011-05-16 17:33:37 <mologie> yes, and that will result in a low hashrate and high power costs
2465 2011-05-16 17:34:15 <Xunie> Meh, so. what approach is a good one from here on?
2466 2011-05-16 17:34:24 <vegard> speaking of which, is there a command I can send to retrieve information about all blocks on the chain in json format?
2467 2011-05-16 17:34:25 <mologie> get ATI/AMD cards instead
2468 2011-05-16 17:34:29 <mtrlt> Xunie: ati, not nvidia
2469 2011-05-16 17:34:38 <comboy> Xunie: just buy some bitcoins
2470 2011-05-16 17:34:51 <mtrlt> but, can a 32bit add x+y be expressed more compactly than y ^ x ^ ((x & y) << 1) ^ ((((x & y) << 1) & y) << 1) ... (32 times in total) :S
2471 2011-05-16 17:35:25 <jmpespxoreax> no
2472 2011-05-16 17:35:28 <jmpespxoreax> I don't think
2473 2011-05-16 17:35:37 lumos has joined
2474 2011-05-16 17:35:46 amiller has joined
2475 2011-05-16 17:36:00 <rap1st> mtrlt: yeah, you can run the adder in a loop
2476 2011-05-16 17:36:09 <rap1st> it will be compact, but ruins pipelining
2477 2011-05-16 17:36:13 <mtrlt> well yeah that
2478 2011-05-16 17:36:20 <mtrlt> but doesn't help a sat solver :p
2479 2011-05-16 17:36:25 <mtrlt> (or does it)
2480 2011-05-16 17:36:52 <mtrlt> while(y=(y&(y^(x^=y)))<<1); <- equal to x = x+y  :-)
2481 2011-05-16 17:37:17 <rap1st> mtrlt: from point of cryptominisat POV everything is reduced to and/or/xor
2482 2011-05-16 17:37:25 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
2483 2011-05-16 17:37:34 <mtrlt> yea.
2484 2011-05-16 17:37:37 Marcel has joined
2485 2011-05-16 17:37:37 <mtrlt> so you have to unroll the loop :P
2486 2011-05-16 17:37:42 <rap1st> sure
2487 2011-05-16 17:38:00 <rap1st> the resulting equation is like 300k terms
2488 2011-05-16 17:38:11 <Xunie> Well, mtrlt you're right, ATi does offer alot more. :o
2489 2011-05-16 17:38:31 <mtrlt> Xunie: yes. if you read the wiki before doing anything :P
2490 2011-05-16 17:38:47 <mtrlt> rap1st: for 1 add?
2491 2011-05-16 17:39:12 zyb has joined
2492 2011-05-16 17:39:19 TheKid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2493 2011-05-16 17:39:19 <rap1st> mtrlt: for two rounds of sha256 to get first 32bits zero
2494 2011-05-16 17:39:26 <mtrlt> ok :P
2495 2011-05-16 17:39:31 <mtrlt> that's not that much
2496 2011-05-16 17:39:39 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2497 2011-05-16 17:39:43 <rap1st> its a 300k deep equation
2498 2011-05-16 17:39:51 <rap1st> pretty much unsolvable via backtracking
2499 2011-05-16 17:40:10 tduke has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2500 2011-05-16 17:40:10 <rap1st> pigeon hole principle is what makes sat solvers cry, actually :)
2501 2011-05-16 17:40:18 <mtrlt> how so :P
2502 2011-05-16 17:40:41 <jrmithdobbs> am i retarded? where's the pushpool example schema?
2503 2011-05-16 17:41:06 <rap1st> mtrlt: prove p != np wrong :)
2504 2011-05-16 17:41:17 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
2505 2011-05-16 17:41:26 <jmpespxoreax> rofl
2506 2011-05-16 17:41:30 <mtrlt> i've tried. ;-)
2507 2011-05-16 17:42:41 npouillard has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2508 2011-05-16 17:42:45 <Xunie> mtrlt, I didn't do anything yet! D:
2509 2011-05-16 17:42:47 <Xunie> :D*
2510 2011-05-16 17:42:52 <mtrlt> good :P
2511 2011-05-16 17:43:30 skreuzer has joined
2512 2011-05-16 17:50:38 Cryo has joined
2513 2011-05-16 17:52:06 bitcoiner has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2516 2011-05-16 17:55:01 Hello has joined
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2520 2011-05-16 17:55:56 <xelister> how it is with provability
2521 2011-05-16 17:55:59 <xelister> and tracability
2522 2011-05-16 17:56:03 <xelister> of bitcoin spending in blockchain
2523 2011-05-16 17:56:25 <xelister> when user A sends coins to user X, and user X(same wallet) pays user A(same wallet)
2524 2011-05-16 17:56:38 <xelister> but both user other addresses for the 2nd transaction (the sending back)
2525 2011-05-16 17:57:12 <xelister> then how in blockchain it does look like A->X Y->B  and blockchain alone is no prove that X and Y is same user/wallet, or that A==B ?
2526 2011-05-16 17:57:14 <rap1st> xelister: its all public, you need to rely on 3rd party "laundry"
2527 2011-05-16 17:57:35 <xelister> yea thats my question, X==Y being the mixing server
2528 2011-05-16 17:57:53 <rap1st> the laundry ultimately can trace you
2529 2011-05-16 17:58:05 <rap1st> so best results would be using several competing ones
2530 2011-05-16 17:58:09 <rap1st> true anonymity is hard
2531 2011-05-16 17:58:10 <xelister> the X and Y (and A,B) keys are unrelated in any provable way, if the second addrees was generated for 2nd transaction?
2532 2011-05-16 17:59:13 <rap1st> X and Y relation is known to laundry operator
2533 2011-05-16 17:59:30 <BlueMatt> sipa: can I get a comment on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/182 IMHO it is one of the easiest to pull big usability thing in pull requests
2534 2011-05-16 17:59:39 <xelister> rap1st: yea, only to him?
2535 2011-05-16 17:59:46 <rap1st> xelister: only to him.
2536 2011-05-16 17:59:53 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2537 2011-05-16 18:00:00 <xelister> rap1st: btw, why not check out #btcfn its designed to eliminate snooping and blocking of Txes
2538 2011-05-16 18:00:09 <rap1st> xelister: so best way would be a->laundry1->laundry...->launryN->b
2539 2011-05-16 18:00:11 <xelister> btw, other nick name would be better ;)
2540 2011-05-16 18:00:24 <BlueMatt> yea rap1st wtf kind of nick is that?
2541 2011-05-16 18:00:36 <rap1st> im rapper, for the first time
2542 2011-05-16 18:00:45 <BlueMatt> no, you are a rapist
2543 2011-05-16 18:00:53 <rap1st> meanie.
2544 2011-05-16 18:01:09 <BlueMatt> how does rap1st mean rapper?
2545 2011-05-16 18:01:53 <rap1st> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rap_%28disambiguation%29
2546 2011-05-16 18:02:14 <BlueMatt> 1 in leetspeak means i hence rapist
2547 2011-05-16 18:02:17 mosimo has joined
2548 2011-05-16 18:02:30 rap1st is now known as rap3rd
2549 2011-05-16 18:02:31 <BlueMatt> maybe rap-1st
2550 2011-05-16 18:02:38 <BlueMatt> or rap_1st
2551 2011-05-16 18:02:44 <mtrlt> raper'd
2552 2011-05-16 18:02:51 <ArtForz> wo got raper'd ?
2553 2011-05-16 18:03:11 <rap3rd> BlueMatt: im moving two places down only because of you assuming the worst
2554 2011-05-16 18:03:22 jmorton_ has joined
2555 2011-05-16 18:03:30 <ArtForz> why not move up, rapoth *g*
2556 2011-05-16 18:04:09 Prof_BiG_BanG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2557 2011-05-16 18:04:29 <BlueMatt> rap3rd: I dont thin anyone saw rap1st and thought rap 1st
2558 2011-05-16 18:04:30 <rap3rd> xelister: anyways. your anonymity is ultimately determined by trusting the laundry operators
2559 2011-05-16 18:04:32 wally has joined
2560 2011-05-16 18:05:36 <rap3rd> paranoid scenario could be laundries operated by governments (to collect taxes) or mafia (to blackmail you) :)
2561 2011-05-16 18:05:55 gasteve has joined
2562 2011-05-16 18:06:51 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r74 /branches/derby/src/com/google/bitcoin/ (core/DerbyBlockStore.java examples/DerbyPingService.java): Eliminate tabs to match trunk
2563 2011-05-16 18:07:00 FreeMoney has joined
2564 2011-05-16 18:07:20 <vegard> BlueMatt: actually, I did.
2565 2011-05-16 18:07:49 <BlueMatt> ok, I stand corrected, still think most people saw rapist
2566 2011-05-16 18:08:01 rap3rd is now known as rap3d
2567 2011-05-16 18:08:09 <rap3d> lets brush those leetspeak skills some more
2568 2011-05-16 18:08:16 <BlueMatt> now you seem to be joining the 3D craze
2569 2011-05-16 18:08:22 <rap3d> good, good
2570 2011-05-16 18:08:23 <BlueMatt> ;)
2571 2011-05-16 18:08:50 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2572 2011-05-16 18:09:06 toffoo has joined
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2574 2011-05-16 18:11:07 TheKid has joined
2575 2011-05-16 18:11:40 Stellar has joined
2576 2011-05-16 18:12:48 <ne0futur> is there any open source bot using mtgox api ?
2577 2011-05-16 18:13:09 ArtForzZz has joined
2578 2011-05-16 18:13:37 jmorton__ has joined
2579 2011-05-16 18:13:40 <xelister> ne0futur: yes mine \o/
2580 2011-05-16 18:13:42 coffeee has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2581 2011-05-16 18:13:50 <xelister> it also backups your wallet.dat securly
2582 2011-05-16 18:13:54 <xelister> wanna download link? >_>
2583 2011-05-16 18:14:56 <ne0futur> yes
2584 2011-05-16 18:15:02 <xelister> :>
2585 2011-05-16 18:15:16 <BlueMatt> backs up your wallet.dat to your email?
2586 2011-05-16 18:15:44 <xelister> yeap
2587 2011-05-16 18:15:50 jmorton_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2588 2011-05-16 18:16:00 <BlueMatt> oh, Ive got a bash script for that too ;)
2589 2011-05-16 18:16:11 qwebirc61585 has joined
2590 2011-05-16 18:16:39 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2591 2011-05-16 18:16:44 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
2592 2011-05-16 18:22:36 <molecular> hmm, forums under heavy load by slashdot/reddit/boingboing ?
2593 2011-05-16 18:23:06 <BlueMatt> according to Diablo-D3 they are all irrelevant, so it cant be
2594 2011-05-16 18:26:12 Hello has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2595 2011-05-16 18:26:20 Darin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2596 2011-05-16 18:27:08 anatoly_l has joined
2597 2011-05-16 18:27:52 <anatoly_l> How can I deploy mining pool for me and my friends?
2598 2011-05-16 18:28:09 <BlueMatt> sure checkout jgarzik's pushpool
2599 2011-05-16 18:28:17 skreuzer has left ()
2600 2011-05-16 18:29:24 <anatoly_l> BlueMatt: Thanks, I've seen this link earlier, but couldn't find it again.
2601 2011-05-16 18:30:56 darin has joined
2602 2011-05-16 18:31:30 jmorton__ has left ()
2603 2011-05-16 18:33:08 wally has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2604 2011-05-16 18:33:14 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2605 2011-05-16 18:33:15 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.5,"low":6.305,"vol":42512,"buy":7.7568,"sell":7.8,"last":7.8}}
2606 2011-05-16 18:33:36 rap3d has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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2609 2011-05-16 18:34:32 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt: they're irrelevant, but goddamned dont get your shitty php app linked by them
2610 2011-05-16 18:34:40 <Diablo-D3> and fuck you, I never said that about boingboing
2611 2011-05-16 18:34:44 TheKid has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2612 2011-05-16 18:34:54 <ne0futur> ah i found one : https://github.com/smola/bitrade
2613 2011-05-16 18:35:21 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,stats
2614 2011-05-16 18:35:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124402 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 589 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 17 hours, 7 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 226651.92832529
2615 2011-05-16 18:37:06 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: wait you think /.+reddit is irrelevant but boingboing isnt...even if you like boingboing better, /.+reddit has _way_ more userbase than boingboing
2616 2011-05-16 18:38:00 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt: boingboing doesnt have a "user base"
2617 2011-05-16 18:38:02 <Diablo-D3> they have readers
2618 2011-05-16 18:38:11 <BlueMatt> ==user base
2619 2011-05-16 18:38:13 <Diablo-D3> boingboing doesnt really foster much in the way of community
2620 2011-05-16 18:38:24 <Diablo-D3> its not an interactive site like slashdot and reddit are
2621 2011-05-16 18:38:27 <Diablo-D3> that said
2622 2011-05-16 18:38:28 <BlueMatt> readers is what I meant
2623 2011-05-16 18:38:34 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin forums == fucking php
2624 2011-05-16 18:38:46 <Diablo-D3> you have more than like 5 people reading it at any given time and it shits itself
2625 2011-05-16 18:39:14 <BlueMatt> you are the most opinionated person Ive ever met, no shit
2626 2011-05-16 18:39:17 <BlueMatt> well maybe luke
2627 2011-05-16 18:39:45 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
2628 2011-05-16 18:40:11 raep3d has joined
2629 2011-05-16 18:40:18 <xelister> PHP
2630 2011-05-16 18:40:27 <xelister> because everyone can easly and fastly code
2631 2011-05-16 18:40:28 qwebirc61585 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2632 2011-05-16 18:40:35 <xelister> bugg and exploitable slow shit scripts
2633 2011-05-16 18:41:08 larsivi has joined
2634 2011-05-16 18:41:18 <BlueMatt> never said php was good, Im just saying diablo hates everything but java
2635 2011-05-16 18:41:33 <BlueMatt> literally thinks everything but java is "the stupidist shit ever"
2636 2011-05-16 18:41:39 eps1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2637 2011-05-16 18:41:45 <xelister> perl and D and haskel too?
2638 2011-05-16 18:42:02 <raep3d> the great thing about java is you can be complete moron and your code will be somewhat secure
2639 2011-05-16 18:42:31 <xelister> usa gov should use it
2640 2011-05-16 18:42:45 <xelister> Sone should have =)
2641 2011-05-16 18:42:47 <raep3d> xelister: c++&boost&python
2642 2011-05-16 18:42:49 <xelister> Sony
2643 2011-05-16 18:42:55 <sipa> manee
2644 2011-05-16 18:43:09 <BlueMatt> sony should have updated their servers and used a firewall (both of which they neglected to do)
2645 2011-05-16 18:43:17 <xelister> lolz
2646 2011-05-16 18:43:25 <raep3d> BlueMatt did sony
2647 2011-05-16 18:43:32 <BlueMatt> and also maybe respond when they were told about their flaws on public forums that they regularly visit
2648 2011-05-16 18:43:35 <xelister> where did they find their admins, ninjas dissabilities/retirement home?
2649 2011-05-16 18:43:35 <raep3d> haxing rh7.3, how dare you
2650 2011-05-16 18:44:06 <xelister> BlueMatt: url?
2651 2011-05-16 18:44:15 AStove has joined
2652 2011-05-16 18:45:22 <raep3d> xelister: it wasnt like that. the old rh boxes were there because of the psn auth binaries were linked against old libc
2653 2011-05-16 18:45:27 <raep3d> so its redhats faul anyway
2654 2011-05-16 18:46:12 <xelister> uh.... rebuild it?
2655 2011-05-16 18:46:37 <xelister> not expose them to outside?
2656 2011-05-16 18:46:44 <raep3d> ic, never been to gamedev
2657 2011-05-16 18:46:48 <raep3d> the sources are all long lost
2658 2011-05-16 18:46:52 <xelister> sanitve its inputs?
2659 2011-05-16 18:46:56 <raep3d> every since the original dev got fired
2660 2011-05-16 18:46:58 <BlueMatt> xelister: hm, cant find it...never seen it myself, but Ive seen several references from fairly trusted media (could be completely wrong, but either way)
2661 2011-05-16 18:47:00 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r75 /branches/derby/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/DerbyBlockStore.java: Commit every 2 seconds instead of after every write
2662 2011-05-16 18:47:09 <xelister> raep3d: use fucking SVN GIT or a damn CVS?
2663 2011-05-16 18:47:12 <BlueMatt> still, a firewall would be nice
2664 2011-05-16 18:47:43 <raep3d> xelister: this kind of stuff is usually written by windows monkeys doing onemanshow projects
2665 2011-05-16 18:48:03 <raep3d> theyre capable but absolutely ignorant regarding to code vc
2666 2011-05-16 18:48:08 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2667 2011-05-16 18:48:14 anatoly_l has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2668 2011-05-16 18:48:17 <BlueMatt> raep3d: no, it was old, unpatched apache
2669 2011-05-16 18:48:22 <BlueMatt> not some static linked binary
2670 2011-05-16 18:48:31 <xelister> BlueMatt: url??
2671 2011-05-16 18:48:39 <BlueMatt> now that I have: http://techland.time.com/2011/05/05/security-expert-sonys-network-unpatched-and-had-no-firewall-installed/#ixzz1LZhcjV1H
2672 2011-05-16 18:48:43 <raep3d> BlueMatt: read what i said again. the old redhat was in place because of old binary stuff
2673 2011-05-16 18:48:46 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2674 2011-05-16 18:48:48 x5x`brb is now known as x5x`brb`brb
2675 2011-05-16 18:48:57 <raep3d> BlueMatt: also, no. apache exploit was not used :)
2676 2011-05-16 18:49:09 <BlueMatt> how do you know that?
2677 2011-05-16 18:49:16 <raep3d> there is not any
2678 2011-05-16 18:49:21 <BlueMatt> xelister: ah, that link was for the first one as well
2679 2011-05-16 18:49:28 <BlueMatt> "And they had reported these in an open forum that was monitored by Sony employees, but had seen no response and no change or update to the software. That was two to three months prior to the incident where the break-ins occurred."
2680 2011-05-16 18:49:28 <BlueMatt> Read more: http://techland.time.com/2011/05/05/security-expert-sonys-network-unpatched-and-had-no-firewall-installed/#ixzz1MXgvZvIy
2681 2011-05-16 18:49:29 <raep3d> for that os/ver combo anyway
2682 2011-05-16 18:49:32 <raep3d> only for openbsd
2683 2011-05-16 18:49:32 <xelister> neat
2684 2011-05-16 18:49:33 <BlueMatt> damn copy mods
2685 2011-05-16 18:50:08 <BlueMatt> raep3d: you still havn't answered how you know no apache exploit was used when they were using old, unpatched apache
2686 2011-05-16 18:50:13 <BlueMatt> with no fw
2687 2011-05-16 18:50:23 <raep3d> BlueMatt: unpatched apache?
2688 2011-05-16 18:50:31 <BlueMatt> read the link
2689 2011-05-16 18:50:37 <raep3d> so?
2690 2011-05-16 18:50:40 <raep3d> whats the bug?
2691 2011-05-16 18:50:46 <raep3d> in the apache :)
2692 2011-05-16 18:50:52 <raep3d> BlueMatt: dont make assumptions
2693 2011-05-16 18:50:57 <BlueMatt> But they were running on very old versions of Apache software that were unpatched and had no firewall installed, and so these were potentially vulnerable"
2694 2011-05-16 18:51:01 <raep3d> the php/ssh was sure buggy
2695 2011-05-16 18:51:03 <BlueMatt> quote from article
2696 2011-05-16 18:51:08 <raep3d> but no, no apache exploit.
2697 2011-05-16 18:51:17 <BlueMatt> what are you talking about, how do you know?
2698 2011-05-16 18:51:27 <BlueMatt> you keep saying no, but no url (or other proof)
2699 2011-05-16 18:51:35 <raep3d> the psn auth servers were largely discussed in homebrew irc rooms
2700 2011-05-16 18:51:49 <BlueMatt> so?
2701 2011-05-16 18:52:03 <raep3d> BlueMatt: simply find whats so unpatched about that apache ver
2702 2011-05-16 18:52:16 <BlueMatt> read the fucking quote
2703 2011-05-16 18:52:32 <raep3d> oh noes
2704 2011-05-16 18:52:34 <raep3d> security expert
2705 2011-05-16 18:52:49 <BlueMatt> I trust a random "security expert" a shitton more than some random guy on irc
2706 2011-05-16 18:53:01 <raep3d> so these were potentially vulnerable.  <-- oh expert
2707 2011-05-16 18:53:09 <raep3d> BlueMatt: i trust only the actual code.
2708 2011-05-16 18:53:21 <BlueMatt> and then why are you talking about buggy php/ssh
2709 2011-05-16 18:53:44 qwebirc14186 has joined
2710 2011-05-16 18:54:07 <raep3d> BlueMatt: http://httpd.apache.org/security/vulnerabilities_22.html
2711 2011-05-16 18:54:21 <BlueMatt> so?
2712 2011-05-16 18:54:31 <raep3d> just want to know what bug was used
2713 2011-05-16 18:54:43 <raep3d> im just calling on the bullshit of mainstream media, nothing more
2714 2011-05-16 18:54:59 <BlueMatt> "In a House Energy and Commerce Committee hearing yesterday" I think the security expert knows what hes talking about
2715 2011-05-16 18:55:20 <raep3d> when he says potentially it means he has no idea
2716 2011-05-16 18:55:27 <raep3d> also, its nobody established in infosec
2717 2011-05-16 18:55:52 <BlueMatt> raep3d: it really only takes a 3rd grader to figure out if there is some old apache being used which could be vulnerable
2718 2011-05-16 18:56:06 <BlueMatt> in any case, it shows neglect on the part of sony for their own server and security
2719 2011-05-16 18:56:17 <BlueMatt> especially when they had been warned months ago
2720 2011-05-16 18:56:25 <raep3d> they werent :(
2721 2011-05-16 18:56:28 <Xunie> So, has anyone put two HD 5970s in crossfire and gotten results with that?
2722 2011-05-16 18:56:36 <BlueMatt> raep3d: and yet they were
2723 2011-05-16 18:57:31 <raep3d> BlueMatt: people were owning that rhel4 the moment it was found open
2724 2011-05-16 18:57:58 <raep3d> sony just chickened out and played the emo queen card
2725 2011-05-16 18:59:21 <BlueMatt> wtf does that even mean, man stop spouting bullshit
2726 2011-05-16 18:59:49 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2727 2011-05-16 18:59:50 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.5,"low":6.305,"vol":42528,"buy":7.56,"sell":7.595,"last":7.5612}}
2728 2011-05-16 19:00:10 <gjs278> go up to $8 and I swear I'll sell just let me have a second chance mtgox
2729 2011-05-16 19:00:39 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: the house calls some pretty un-expert experts some times so i wouldn't assume that
2730 2011-05-16 19:00:47 <jrmithdobbs> (didnt read what you're talking about specifically though)
2731 2011-05-16 19:00:57 eoss has joined
2732 2011-05-16 19:01:38 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: no I agree, but I tend to give more support to an article that has been spewed just about everywhere than some idiot on irc who hardly makes any sense anyway
2733 2011-05-16 19:01:38 <edcba> you are drunk raep3d
2734 2011-05-16 19:02:02 ntosme2 has joined
2735 2011-05-16 19:02:48 <xelister> Xunie: disable xfire
2736 2011-05-16 19:02:52 <sirius> bitcoin.org better now?
2737 2011-05-16 19:02:56 <eoss> hello, i am trying to figure out how bitcoin works :D....when you make a transaction with a bitcoin and you put on the new owners public key what stops you from still using the same coin in another transaction ?
2738 2011-05-16 19:03:10 <BlueMatt> sirius: my god yes, what did you do?
2739 2011-05-16 19:03:11 <sirius> this is funny, replaced apache2 with lighttpd and memory use 1800 -> 400
2740 2011-05-16 19:03:20 <BlueMatt> yea apache kinda sucks
2741 2011-05-16 19:03:30 <MacRohard> eoss, basically the transaction is broadcast to the world, and the world remembers that it was made and won't let you redo it
2742 2011-05-16 19:03:50 <eoss> so there is a check that happens before each transaction?
2743 2011-05-16 19:03:57 <sirius> quick as lightning :)
2744 2011-05-16 19:03:59 <eoss> to ensure that?
2745 2011-05-16 19:04:04 <MacRohard> yes
2746 2011-05-16 19:04:17 <eoss> ok thanks
2747 2011-05-16 19:05:09 sacarlson has joined
2748 2011-05-16 19:05:24 <eoss> what makes bitcoins valuable? i cant wrap my head around cpu power being converted into a currency ...it's not like people go around looking for more cpu power in real life
2749 2011-05-16 19:06:10 <raep3d> BlueMatt: http://pastebin.com/bAUHxtNr ... would trust that somewhat more than some phd expert.
2750 2011-05-16 19:06:27 <Xunie> xelister, and that will use both cards, right? Also: What about 3 or 4 way crossfire? :P
2751 2011-05-16 19:06:49 <BlueMatt> eoss: the same thing that makes anything valuable, the ability to trade it for something that has more value
2752 2011-05-16 19:07:16 <mtrlt> Xunie: everyone says "disable crossfire" but i could only make my dual 6990 rig work by enabling it. on windows 7 x64 :p
2753 2011-05-16 19:07:33 FabianB has joined
2754 2011-05-16 19:08:17 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2755 2011-05-16 19:08:44 <BlueMatt> raep3d: that means nothing, now stfu Im done with this crap
2756 2011-05-16 19:08:45 dust1 has joined
2757 2011-05-16 19:09:14 <MacRohard> ecoss, it's only valuable because people think it is.
2758 2011-05-16 19:09:28 <BlueMatt> what they have now is very different than what they had when they got popped
2759 2011-05-16 19:09:32 <lumos> is there a shorting company for bitcoin, and is this a feasible thing?
2760 2011-05-16 19:09:35 <z310> it's valuable because it's scare and help facilitate trade
2761 2011-05-16 19:09:42 Titeuf_87_ has joined
2762 2011-05-16 19:09:47 <z310> scares and helps
2763 2011-05-16 19:10:02 <raep3d> BlueMatt: look at the date.
2764 2011-05-16 19:10:18 <BlueMatt> raep3d: stfu
2765 2011-05-16 19:10:23 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2766 2011-05-16 19:10:28 <edcba> indeed
2767 2011-05-16 19:10:28 <xelister> Xunie: should work
2768 2011-05-16 19:12:53 Titeuf_87 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2769 2011-05-16 19:14:13 <BlueMatt> sirius: afaict for startssl.com they will give you a subdomain cert, I cant be sure as their website is pretty sparse on the details but its worth a shot
2770 2011-05-16 19:14:37 <sirius> yeah, I'll check it out tomorrow
2771 2011-05-16 19:14:52 <BlueMatt> nice
2772 2011-05-16 19:18:40 peck has joined
2773 2011-05-16 19:18:42 <eoss> currently how many blocks are there and once bitcoin takes off do you expect everyone to really dl the entire transaction list in the history of bitcoin?
2774 2011-05-16 19:18:58 <eoss> surely theres a more efficient way
2775 2011-05-16 19:19:33 <BlueMatt> there is and its being worked on :)
2776 2011-05-16 19:19:40 <BlueMatt> you dont technically need the blockchain
2777 2011-05-16 19:19:45 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
2778 2011-05-16 19:19:46 <gribble> 124410
2779 2011-05-16 19:20:04 fuho has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2780 2011-05-16 19:20:36 <jmpespxoreax> BlueMatt: wasn't it you that said that you only need the full block chain to mine?
2781 2011-05-16 19:20:49 <BlueMatt> dont know who said it but thats pretty much true
2782 2011-05-16 19:21:00 <BlueMatt> you dont technically even need that much, but it is only needed for mining
2783 2011-05-16 19:21:08 <BlueMatt> (you can delete spent txes)
2784 2011-05-16 19:21:14 <roconnor> So I've been meaning to ask, how do mining pools work?  I have a conjecture but I'm not sure.
2785 2011-05-16 19:21:22 <neoeinstein_> mtrlt: do you have a monitor hooked up to the second card?
2786 2011-05-16 19:21:33 <BlueMatt> you all mine and when the pool gets a block it splits the profit...?
2787 2011-05-16 19:21:40 <roconnor> er ya
2788 2011-05-16 19:21:43 <raep3d> eoss: one possibility would be just package complete blockchain to the installation package
2789 2011-05-16 19:21:48 <roconnor> I guess how to ensure people don't cheat the pool
2790 2011-05-16 19:21:56 <raep3d> eoss: so neighbor peers would not be raped by every newbie coming
2791 2011-05-16 19:21:57 <BlueMatt> raep3d: still a ton of wasted bw
2792 2011-05-16 19:22:00 <roconnor> and how to judge what proportion of work each participant does
2793 2011-05-16 19:22:09 <raep3d> BlueMatt: why? dl servers are nicely optimized for that
2794 2011-05-16 19:22:16 <BlueMatt> raep3d: why bother, you dont need it
2795 2011-05-16 19:22:35 <BlueMatt> roconnor: they use artificially low difficulty and just judge based on how many blocks you "would" have found at difficulty 1
2796 2011-05-16 19:22:37 <raep3d> well otherwise you have to trust "up to that point, the blockchain is correct"
2797 2011-05-16 19:22:40 <mtrlt> neoeinstein_: yes on the second, but not on the first. when i enabled crossfire the picture vanished from the first card.
2798 2011-05-16 19:22:46 <BlueMatt> raep3d: only sort of
2799 2011-05-16 19:22:56 <phantomcircuit> anybody notice anyhting... odd just a minute ago
2800 2011-05-16 19:22:58 <BlueMatt> raep3d: regular clients dont have to bother downloading anything but block headers
2801 2011-05-16 19:23:00 <xelister> BlueMatt: I heared there where attacks on deepbit that was using such simple payouts
2802 2011-05-16 19:23:05 <roconnor> BlueMatt: and check that you are building blocks that are submitted to the central authority I presume
2803 2011-05-16 19:23:20 <xelister> I guess they just sent the work EXCEPT for the winning blocks, just to fuck with the pool?
2804 2011-05-16 19:23:22 gavinandresen has joined
2805 2011-05-16 19:23:31 <neoeinstein_> mtrlt, ATI's drivers don't enable the card for OpenCL usage unless they are "enabled" for video. They don't do that unless they think there is a monitor.
2806 2011-05-16 19:23:38 <BlueMatt> xelister: you could technically do that just to fuck with the pools yes
2807 2011-05-16 19:24:06 <BlueMatt> roconnor: if you start mining you have to chose payout address and txes before you start, so you cant keep blocks to yourself and if you find solutions, it has to have been worked on for the pool
2808 2011-05-16 19:24:07 <raep3d> BlueMatt: the proof of work then fails however, since you cant verify it. but you have a point that average joe does not care that much
2809 2011-05-16 19:24:11 <neoeinstein_> mtrlt, take one of your DVI-to-VGA converters, grab a 68 Ohm resister, and short pins 1 and 6 on the VGA side with that.
2810 2011-05-16 19:24:22 <BlueMatt> raep3d: not true
2811 2011-05-16 19:24:23 <eoss> if SHA256 is found to be exploitable would the bitcoin system stay afloat or would this cripple the entire system?
2812 2011-05-16 19:24:25 <roconnor> xelister: that doesn't sound advantageous to do.
2813 2011-05-16 19:24:30 <neoeinstein_> mtrlt, Then attach to the video card, and it will think there is a monitor there, and you can use it for mining.
2814 2011-05-16 19:24:34 <BlueMatt> raep3d: the pow is just the block headers
2815 2011-05-16 19:25:01 <BlueMatt> eoss: depends on the exploit, but probably make it much less secure
2816 2011-05-16 19:25:20 <midnightmagic> eoss: It is always possible to change the software, and the ฿ community as a whole would adopt new software that rewound history to something prior to evidence of a break.
2817 2011-05-16 19:25:23 <BlueMatt> eoss: the good thing is that in crypto problems are almost never found instantly, but slowly over time so we could have enough time to try to switch
2818 2011-05-16 19:25:23 <mtrlt> neoeinstein_: when i unplug the monitor, the miners keep running fine and clock speed stays where it should
2819 2011-05-16 19:25:27 <BlueMatt> but IMHO its not a big problem
2820 2011-05-16 19:25:29 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2821 2011-05-16 19:25:31 Joim has joined
2822 2011-05-16 19:25:38 <Joim> hello
2823 2011-05-16 19:25:44 <BlueMatt> hi
2824 2011-05-16 19:25:51 <Joim> I'm trying to launch the bitcoin program on linux x64
2825 2011-05-16 19:25:56 <Joim> but the gui won't start at all
2826 2011-05-16 19:25:59 <BlueMatt> ubuntu 11.04?
2827 2011-05-16 19:26:02 <Joim> tried compiling it myself, same
2828 2011-05-16 19:26:04 <gavinandresen> jeepers creepers, the Faucet is getting a lot of customers today....
2829 2011-05-16 19:26:05 <Joim> yes
2830 2011-05-16 19:26:20 <ArtForz> /. again
2831 2011-05-16 19:26:25 <neoeinstein_> mtrlt: Yep. Once it is attached, it won't kill an already running miner. Same if you RDP into a computer with miners active. The miners won't die, but you won't be able to restart them without access to the console.
2832 2011-05-16 19:26:25 <roconnor> gavinandresen: it's pretty popular on reddit today
2833 2011-05-16 19:26:29 <BlueMatt> Joim: look for the ubuntu 11.04 thread on the forums, long story short its a wx bug and you can build with wx-trunk
2834 2011-05-16 19:26:37 <raep3d> BlueMatt: but you dont know what they do represent, or theyre even correct. so you must trust block updates by miners from the point on.
2835 2011-05-16 19:26:48 <BlueMatt> raep3d: again, not true
2836 2011-05-16 19:27:00 <Joim> BlueMatt: I built with the wx I got off their site
2837 2011-05-16 19:27:01 <BlueMatt> oh sorry, yea true
2838 2011-05-16 19:27:04 <BlueMatt> but still no one cares
2839 2011-05-16 19:27:07 <mtrlt> neoeinstein_: but why not use crossfire?
2840 2011-05-16 19:27:08 <eoss> bitcoin article was linked on reddit today so could be why the faucet is down...reddit article is actually why im here
2841 2011-05-16 19:27:14 <BlueMatt> Joim: you have to build with wx-trunk not any released version
2842 2011-05-16 19:27:23 <Joim> aaah, ok
2843 2011-05-16 19:27:23 <BlueMatt> and another /.
2844 2011-05-16 19:27:24 <mtrlt> neoeinstein_: cause with crossfire i only need one monitor hooked up to use both cards
2845 2011-05-16 19:27:38 <Joim> I wonder if there are any precompiled packages out there
2846 2011-05-16 19:27:41 <raep3d> BlueMatt: but if networks agree on this truncated representation, it probably means its correct. same as with transaction verifycation...
2847 2011-05-16 19:28:04 <neoeinstein_> mtrlt, With two cards running separately, you get x2 speedup. With crossfire, you get < x2 speedup, but with x2 electricity and hardware costs.
2848 2011-05-16 19:28:19 <BlueMatt> raep3d: what? the idea is that miners verify txes via pow, and the network doesnt care as long as the txes for themselves are good
2849 2011-05-16 19:28:29 <neoeinstein_> mtrlt, Crossfire just does not make for more efficient mining.
2850 2011-05-16 19:28:40 <raep3d> BlueMatt: yeah thats what i meant. drunk a bit ^_^
2851 2011-05-16 19:28:42 <BlueMatt> raep3d: and nodes will probably keep verifying txes, its just end-clients wont
2852 2011-05-16 19:28:48 * roconnor ought to review what this Merkle tree is good for.
2853 2011-05-16 19:28:48 <mtrlt> neoeinstein_: how can i see the speed loss in practice?
2854 2011-05-16 19:28:55 <xelister> mtrlt: just disable xfire
2855 2011-05-16 19:29:04 <BlueMatt> roconnor: IMHO, nothing but its a cool idea
2856 2011-05-16 19:29:09 Kurtov is now known as Kurtov|Away
2857 2011-05-16 19:29:11 <roconnor> ah
2858 2011-05-16 19:29:11 <mtrlt> neoeinstein_: do both cards slow down equally or is it just one card or something?
2859 2011-05-16 19:29:28 <roconnor> no wonder I can't quite figure out its purpose
2860 2011-05-16 19:29:29 <xelister> mtrlt: second card generates random carp. Just disable xfire already
2861 2011-05-16 19:29:29 <BlueMatt> roconnor: its only really good if you want to store one or two txes of a block but not the rest, but I see no point to that for a while
2862 2011-05-16 19:29:36 <mtrlt> xelister: i couldn't get both cards to work without it. even with a monitor attached to both cards.
2863 2011-05-16 19:29:39 <neoeinstein_> mtrlt: It's not that they slow down, it's that they don't opperate as efficiently as independently.
2864 2011-05-16 19:30:04 <mtrlt> xelister: random crap as in? the share counts on slush are fine
2865 2011-05-16 19:30:12 <xelister> mtrlt: wait, card? you have 2 separate carts?  2 x ... ?
2866 2011-05-16 19:30:18 <mtrlt> 2 x 6990
2867 2011-05-16 19:30:20 <mtrlt> in crossfire
2868 2011-05-16 19:30:21 <xelister> oh
2869 2011-05-16 19:30:23 <xelister> dunno how that works
2870 2011-05-16 19:30:33 <xelister> but Im rather sure its a good idea to disable xfire
2871 2011-05-16 19:30:40 <mtrlt> it is not because it doesn't work
2872 2011-05-16 19:30:40 <neoeinstein_> mtrlt, You will get an increase, yes. But, you won't get an increase proportional to the additional hardware or electricity costs.
2873 2011-05-16 19:30:48 <mtrlt> i can only use card 1 without crossfire
2874 2011-05-16 19:30:48 <xelister> mtrlt: winblows? linux?
2875 2011-05-16 19:30:52 <mtrlt> win7 x64
2876 2011-05-16 19:31:01 <xelister> mtrlt: nya nya nyaaa nya
2877 2011-05-16 19:31:05 <xelister> mtrlt: get a real os
2878 2011-05-16 19:31:08 <mtrlt> no thanks
2879 2011-05-16 19:31:13 <xelister> ok, remain a fag
2880 2011-05-16 19:31:14 <mtrlt> i wont battle with drivers on linux
2881 2011-05-16 19:31:20 <mtrlt> cause linux sux
2882 2011-05-16 19:31:23 <xelister> drivers are easier on linux
2883 2011-05-16 19:31:31 phantomcircuit has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2884 2011-05-16 19:31:34 <BlueMatt> lets not have this debate, ok?
2885 2011-05-16 19:31:38 <neoeinstein_> mtrlt: Try the VGA terminator idea I mentioned. A pack of 5 68 Ohm resisters is only 1 dollar at radio shack.
2886 2011-05-16 19:31:38 <Joim> thanks BlueMatt
2887 2011-05-16 19:31:39 <xelister> BlueMatt: nope
2888 2011-05-16 19:31:39 <mtrlt> ok :P
2889 2011-05-16 19:31:58 <BlueMatt> Joim: np
2890 2011-05-16 19:32:06 <mtrlt> neoeinstein_: i don't know what is the equivalent of radio shack in finland :P i'll find out though
2891 2011-05-16 19:32:12 <xelister> after discovering how to do stuff, it seems on linux you can do more setup easier
2892 2011-05-16 19:32:15 <neoeinstein_> :-P good enough
2893 2011-05-16 19:32:35 <xelister> on windows, after discovering... you discover it can't be done (without some weired shit like 2nd monitor etc) ;)
2894 2011-05-16 19:32:35 <BlueMatt> mtrlt: amazon?
2895 2011-05-16 19:32:50 <mtrlt> i don't wanna order by mail
2896 2011-05-16 19:32:51 <mtrlt> takes forever
2897 2011-05-16 19:32:55 <raep3d> last trade $7.5, collapsing :(
2898 2011-05-16 19:33:02 <BlueMatt> really? amazon takes like 2 days on average for me
2899 2011-05-16 19:33:09 * xelister prepares his buying stash o money
2900 2011-05-16 19:33:19 <midnightmagic> "collapsing"
2901 2011-05-16 19:33:23 <mtrlt> well amazon sends everything from the UK as far as i know
2902 2011-05-16 19:33:27 <mtrlt> so it takes at least a week
2903 2011-05-16 19:33:27 <xelister> and ho ho ho buy low and say high and ha ha ha, and a bottle of rom
2904 2011-05-16 19:33:30 <gjs278> anyone who thinks the linux drivers suck I will duel them in real life Im serious
2905 2011-05-16 19:33:50 <BlueMatt> mtrlt: hm, amazon.de works here, you dont have an equivalent there?
2906 2011-05-16 19:33:53 <xelister> gjs278: well Ati drivers suck, on all OSes
2907 2011-05-16 19:33:55 <neoeinstein_> If you have a small electronics store that has electrical stuff like resistors, capacitors, or sells breadboards, you'll find what you need.
2908 2011-05-16 19:34:13 <mtrlt> BlueMatt: nope, no amazon.fi :P
2909 2011-05-16 19:34:21 <BlueMatt> odd
2910 2011-05-16 19:34:30 <mtrlt> neoeinstein_: yea i'm still searching
2911 2011-05-16 19:34:37 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2912 2011-05-16 19:34:39 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.5,"low":6.305,"vol":42840,"buy":7.44,"sell":7.45,"last":7.45}}
2913 2011-05-16 19:34:58 <mtrlt> BlueMatt: not that odd. finland only has 5.4 million people and we already have established players on the internet store market :p
2914 2011-05-16 19:35:09 <xelister> raep3d: it "collapsed" like that 3 times before today. Earned me few bucks just on that :)
2915 2011-05-16 19:35:34 <raep3d> xelister: im not much fond of daytrading
2916 2011-05-16 19:36:01 <gjs278> just buy them at 7.50 and put a sell order for 8.50 and then go to sleep the rest of the day
2917 2011-05-16 19:36:09 hyperjacker has joined
2918 2011-05-16 19:36:17 <xelister> and wake up richier
2919 2011-05-16 19:36:35 <raep3d> still, buying low and then buzzing at slashdot/reddit until lots of hits gets thru
2920 2011-05-16 19:36:37 <xelister> or arrested for terrorism lol <_<  in the land of the free and brave (soon?)
2921 2011-05-16 19:36:38 <raep3d> sounds like a plan
2922 2011-05-16 19:39:38 <Joim> so how exactly does the irc tie into the gui client?
2923 2011-05-16 19:39:59 <xelister> OH DAMN
2924 2011-05-16 19:40:00 <raep3d> it works much like your general run of the mill botnet
2925 2011-05-16 19:40:04 <raep3d> join a channel, obey commands
2926 2011-05-16 19:40:04 <xelister> the bottom is falling out!!
2927 2011-05-16 19:40:07 <xelister> @6.2
2928 2011-05-16 19:40:16 <raep3d> i sez collapsing
2929 2011-05-16 19:40:29 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2930 2011-05-16 19:40:29 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.5,"low":6.305,"vol":42925,"buy":7.4301,"sell":7.5101,"last":7.43}}
2931 2011-05-16 19:40:48 <xelister> gjs278: the bot has 5 minute lag
2932 2011-05-16 19:40:51 <xelister> sell before its too late
2933 2011-05-16 19:40:51 aCB-[i] has quit ()
2934 2011-05-16 19:40:52 <raep3d> hope it wont close below 7
2935 2011-05-16 19:41:01 <xelister> @5.9
2936 2011-05-16 19:41:29 <gjs278> no troll
2937 2011-05-16 19:41:41 <wumpus> @0.02
2938 2011-05-16 19:41:46 <lupine_85> shame my bitcoins on mtgox didn't get listed before prices started dropping
2939 2011-05-16 19:41:55 <lupine_85> (I've got 2 on @8.1 right now)
2940 2011-05-16 19:42:10 <lupine_85> if prices are going back below 7, I've got no USD to buy with
2941 2011-05-16 19:42:29 <quup> is accessing bitcoind directly with popen less flaky than the json interface?
2942 2011-05-16 19:42:43 <mtrlt> found a store. it has multiple kinds of 68ohm resistors, do watts matter?
2943 2011-05-16 19:43:21 <xelister> wow 3.8
2944 2011-05-16 19:44:09 <gavinandresen> quup: bitcoind <command> uses the json interface to talk to the running bitcoind, so no, it should be more flaky.
2945 2011-05-16 19:44:25 <gavinandresen> quup: but the json interface shouldn't be flaky at all -- how is it flaky for you?
2946 2011-05-16 19:45:09 <Joim> Shouldn't I have more than 500 blocks?
2947 2011-05-16 19:45:17 <Joim> Do I need to open a port?
2948 2011-05-16 19:45:34 <BlueMatt> sirius: ok, I can confirm 100% that startssl offers free subdomain certs (in fact for some reason they require you to enter a subdomain for your certs)
2949 2011-05-16 19:45:40 <roconnor> Joim: blocks are fetched 500 at a time IIRC
2950 2011-05-16 19:45:57 anatoly_l has joined
2951 2011-05-16 19:46:00 <luke-jr> gavinandresen: it's quite flaky..
2952 2011-05-16 19:46:33 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: currently it locks the entire rpc process if it gets getaccountaddress
2953 2011-05-16 19:46:42 <BlueMatt> so...somewhat flaky
2954 2011-05-16 19:47:22 <gavinandresen> what exactly do you mean by "locks the entire rpc process" -- hangs?  RPC is single-threaded, so EVERY call locks it...
2955 2011-05-16 19:47:41 <BlueMatt> doesnt return and doesnt respond to any future request --hangs
2956 2011-05-16 19:47:42 <gavinandresen> If there's a deadlock issue still, then that needs reporting/fixing
2957 2011-05-16 19:47:58 <BlueMatt> so yea...deadlock
2958 2011-05-16 19:48:32 <gavinandresen> anybody file a bug?
2959 2011-05-16 19:48:51 <BlueMatt> dont think so, let me go check on the exact command as I dont remember, but I will
2960 2011-05-16 19:49:02 <BlueMatt> it appears to be hanging on db something or other
2961 2011-05-16 19:49:18 <Optimo> as a noob, I must say that I was under some impression that this system was very fast
2962 2011-05-16 19:49:32 <BlueMatt> ?
2963 2011-05-16 19:49:32 <Optimo> without preferred tx
2964 2011-05-16 19:49:54 <Optimo> I guess it runs slower at times
2965 2011-05-16 19:50:13 <Optimo> just trying to recv some btc
2966 2011-05-16 19:50:40 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
2967 2011-05-16 19:50:54 <gavinandresen> If you've got all the blocks, you should see transactions to you immediately.  Unless they're running an old client and sending you a very small number of bitcoins.
2968 2011-05-16 19:51:10 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: <BlueMatt>	hm, odd its locking up in in pdb-> put db.h:105
2969 2011-05-16 19:51:17 <Optimo> it's just for 2 btc
2970 2011-05-16 19:51:18 <BlueMatt> when getaccountaddress is called
2971 2011-05-16 19:51:36 <Optimo> expectation for a mobile app for this seems like it would have hiccups
2972 2011-05-16 19:51:50 <BlueMatt> Optimo: txes should show up instantly, but confirmations can take a while for txes that might look spammy
2973 2011-05-16 19:52:04 <roconnor> xelister: what was the bitcoin freenode room?
2974 2011-05-16 19:52:11 <BlueMatt> #bitcoin
2975 2011-05-16 19:52:14 <roconnor> er
2976 2011-05-16 19:52:14 <BlueMatt> or #bitcoin-otc
2977 2011-05-16 19:52:16 <roconnor> xelister: what was the bitcoin freenet room?
2978 2011-05-16 19:52:17 <BlueMatt> or #bitcoin-dev
2979 2011-05-16 19:52:19 <Optimo> ooh interesting what is teh 'spammy' criteria?
2980 2011-05-16 19:52:21 <BlueMatt> #btcfn
2981 2011-05-16 19:52:49 <BlueMatt> Optimo: amount, how old the inputs are, fee
2982 2011-05-16 19:52:51 <Optimo> what is that port I'm supposed to open?
2983 2011-05-16 19:53:02 <roconnor> BlueMatt: thx
2984 2011-05-16 19:53:03 <Optimo> forward
2985 2011-05-16 19:53:04 <BlueMatt> Optimo: do you have any connections?
2986 2011-05-16 19:53:15 <Optimo> 8 with 119k blocks
2987 2011-05-16 19:53:21 rlifchitz has joined
2988 2011-05-16 19:53:21 rlifchitz has quit (Changing host)
2989 2011-05-16 19:53:21 rlifchitz has joined
2990 2011-05-16 19:53:47 * roconnor needs to add more crazy blocks to the testnet
2991 2011-05-16 19:53:49 <Joim> how many blocks are there in total?
2992 2011-05-16 19:54:05 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2993 2011-05-16 19:54:13 <BlueMatt> Joim: ,,bc,blocks
2994 2011-05-16 19:54:14 <gribble> 124418
2995 2011-05-16 19:54:30 <Optimo> I'm close then ;)
2996 2011-05-16 19:54:42 <xelister> roconnor:  #btcfn  (BiTCoin over FreeNet)
2997 2011-05-16 19:54:57 <BlueMatt> Optimo: if you have the full blockchain, txes should appear in all other clients immediately, just not get confirmed
2998 2011-05-16 19:55:36 <Optimo> my sender shows it as unconfirmed, my receiving client doesnt show anything - I thikn this is normal
2999 2011-05-16 19:55:40 <Optimo> this is my first buy, btw
3000 2011-05-16 19:56:12 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3001 2011-05-16 19:56:14 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3002 2011-05-16 19:56:18 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.5,"low":6.305,"vol":43161,"buy":7.4001,"sell":7.5099,"last":7.4}}
3003 2011-05-16 19:56:19 <BlueMatt> if the receiver doesnt have the full chain then yea thats normal
3004 2011-05-16 19:56:32 <BlueMatt> might also not appear as unconfirmed until you get a confirmation or wait a while
3005 2011-05-16 19:56:37 tcatm has joined
3006 2011-05-16 19:56:42 <BlueMatt> (if you send before getting full chain)
3007 2011-05-16 19:57:11 <Optimo> early days of teh gold rush
3008 2011-05-16 19:58:25 JackRabiit has joined
3009 2011-05-16 19:59:32 <xelister> with the console bitcoind, how to see blocks that I mined but are stil maturing?
3010 2011-05-16 19:59:39 <Diablo-D3> you cant.
3011 2011-05-16 19:59:41 <lulzplzkthx> Hey you guys are a bunch of cryptofreaks and what not, I need a suggestion. i work on a CMS that wants to incorporate a type of aut-updates because one issue we see with current CMSs is that even when an update gets released, the affected software still exists ofen in the wild. So our auto-updates would, optionally of course, update from a server. the issue with this is a breach of the server means a breach of all the websites. The sollution I su
3012 2011-05-16 19:59:42 <xelister> suks...
3013 2011-05-16 19:59:46 phantomcircuit has joined
3014 2011-05-16 19:59:57 <lulzplzkthx> Diablo-D3: a listtransactions 0 doesn't tell?
3015 2011-05-16 20:00:10 <Diablo-D3> lulzplzkthx: I dont think it does unless it was recently added
3016 2011-05-16 20:00:16 <sipa> lisince 0.3.21 it does
3017 2011-05-16 20:00:19 <Diablo-D3> its one of the most bitched about things
3018 2011-05-16 20:00:19 <sipa> since
3019 2011-05-16 20:00:22 <Diablo-D3> sipa: ohyay
3020 2011-05-16 20:00:33 eternal1 has joined
3021 2011-05-16 20:00:40 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3022 2011-05-16 20:00:43 <EPiSKiNG> anyone managed to get a 5970 and a 6990 working in windows?
3023 2011-05-16 20:00:56 <xelister> EPiSKiNG: use linux like a man =)
3024 2011-05-16 20:00:57 <Diablo-D3> I assume someone has
3025 2011-05-16 20:01:11 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3026 2011-05-16 20:01:16 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
3027 2011-05-16 20:01:18 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.5,"low":6.305,"vol":43222,"buy":7.31,"sell":7.313,"last":7.313}}
3028 2011-05-16 20:01:32 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3029 2011-05-16 20:01:52 npouillard has joined
3030 2011-05-16 20:01:55 <Diablo-D3> my 5850 is now up to ... $51.75
3031 2011-05-16 20:02:06 <Diablo-D3> 1/3rd of the way
3032 2011-05-16 20:02:19 <xelister> of the way to?
3033 2011-05-16 20:02:26 <Diablo-D3> paying for itself.
3034 2011-05-16 20:02:46 <EPiSKiNG> xelister: but I'm a linux newb!
3035 2011-05-16 20:02:52 <EPiSKiNG> got all day to work on it though
3036 2011-05-16 20:02:54 <EPiSKiNG> maybe i'll try it
3037 2011-05-16 20:03:11 <Joim> linux isn't all that bad
3038 2011-05-16 20:03:23 <EPiSKiNG> i'm just not used to how to install drivers, etc
3039 2011-05-16 20:03:30 <EPiSKiNG> will you guys help me?
3040 2011-05-16 20:03:32 <EPiSKiNG> ;-)
3041 2011-05-16 20:03:38 <EPiSKiNG> for like 5 BTC?
3042 2011-05-16 20:03:41 <gjs278> me
3043 2011-05-16 20:03:47 <eoss> if there are no transactions taking place won't there be no blocks to mine?
3044 2011-05-16 20:03:50 <Joim> apt-get is your friend (for debian type distros)
3045 2011-05-16 20:04:01 <EPiSKiNG> Ubuntu = deb style yes
3046 2011-05-16 20:04:03 <EPiSKiNG> ?
3047 2011-05-16 20:04:06 <gjs278> yes
3048 2011-05-16 20:04:06 <Joim> yep
3049 2011-05-16 20:04:16 bulletbill has joined
3050 2011-05-16 20:04:16 vorlov has joined
3051 2011-05-16 20:04:17 <EPiSKiNG> yay.  loading up a USB drive now
3052 2011-05-16 20:04:28 <Joim> What drivers were you looking for EPiSKiNG?
3053 2011-05-16 20:04:52 bulletbill has left ()
3054 2011-05-16 20:06:10 <lulzplzkthx> Anyone having issues with the forum? Tried to post and got told I posted <5 secs ago.
3055 2011-05-16 20:06:16 <lulzplzkthx> Which i didn't. :\
3056 2011-05-16 20:06:45 <BlueMatt> same here
3057 2011-05-16 20:06:50 <BlueMatt> sirius: what did you break?
3058 2011-05-16 20:06:52 <BlueMatt> ;)
3059 2011-05-16 20:07:37 <BlueMatt> well my post just went through
3060 2011-05-16 20:07:57 <BlueMatt> maybe a proxy issue, all ips are showing up as 1?
3061 2011-05-16 20:08:39 <gjs278> my ip was over 9000
3062 2011-05-16 20:08:40 marlowe has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3063 2011-05-16 20:08:53 <Joim> yay, finally got a connection :)
3064 2011-05-16 20:09:09 <EPiSKiNG> ubuntu-11.04-desktop-amd64.iso is what I want, yes?
3065 2011-05-16 20:09:24 <gjs278> yes
3066 2011-05-16 20:09:40 <gjs278> that would probably go on a cd not sure if you can boot with that
3067 2011-05-16 20:10:12 <BlueMatt> yes you can, but go with 10.04 LTS
3068 2011-05-16 20:10:25 <BlueMatt> due to the whole wx-trunk build bug thing
3069 2011-05-16 20:10:39 <gjs278> nobody installs the actual client for a miner
3070 2011-05-16 20:10:49 <BlueMatt> oh you mean miner, yea then 11.04 works
3071 2011-05-16 20:10:53 <BlueMatt> +bitcoind
3072 2011-05-16 20:10:59 <BlueMatt> or remote bitcoin
3073 2011-05-16 20:11:02 <jlewis> BlueMatt: i can't reproduce those latest compiler erors you posted - what environment are you building under?
3074 2011-05-16 20:11:06 <EPiSKiNG> miner + pool
3075 2011-05-16 20:11:13 <BlueMatt> jlewis: ubuntu 11.04
3076 2011-05-16 20:11:25 <jlewis> what version of boost?
3077 2011-05-16 20:11:42 <BlueMatt> 1.42
3078 2011-05-16 20:12:28 mtfuji_ has joined
3079 2011-05-16 20:12:57 tom__ has joined
3080 2011-05-16 20:13:24 Moonies has quit (Quit: quack)
3081 2011-05-16 20:13:43 <sipa> roconnor: the point of the merkle tree: if a block has 256 transactions, and you know only the hash of a tx, i can tell you a path of 8 other hashes you need to hash that txid with, for you to allow verification that is belongs to a block of which you only have the header
3082 2011-05-16 20:14:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: but there is no real usefulness to that for some time to come (in terms of block size)
3083 2011-05-16 20:14:27 tom__ has quit (Client Quit)
3084 2011-05-16 20:14:28 <sipa> it's necessary for lightweight clients
3085 2011-05-16 20:14:37 <ahbritto> The you tube bitcoin introduction should be added to the top of bitcoin.org.
3086 2011-05-16 20:14:37 <sipa> so i'm glad it's in the design
3087 2011-05-16 20:14:46 <sipa> ahbritto: which one?
3088 2011-05-16 20:15:04 qwebirc14186 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3089 2011-05-16 20:15:07 <BlueMatt> blocks aren't that big, lightweight clients can easily download full ones...I agree its a cool feature but its not really necessary for some time to come
3090 2011-05-16 20:15:20 <ahbritto> sipa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo What is Bitcoin?
3091 2011-05-16 20:15:36 <xelister> Fraud
3092 2011-05-16 20:15:39 <sipa> oh the weusecoins thing
3093 2011-05-16 20:15:42 <JackRabiit> anyone wanna buy 9btc with PPUSD?
3094 2011-05-16 20:15:46 <sipa> it used to be there
3095 2011-05-16 20:15:47 <JackRabiit> only $60
3096 2011-05-16 20:15:50 <sipa> JackRabiit: see #bitcoin-otc
3097 2011-05-16 20:15:51 <BlueMatt> JackRabiit: #bitcoin-otc
3098 2011-05-16 20:15:55 <JackRabiit> lol k
3099 2011-05-16 20:15:57 <JackRabiit> ty
3100 2011-05-16 20:15:58 redwizard_kde has joined
3101 2011-05-16 20:16:03 JackRabiit has left ()
3102 2011-05-16 20:16:09 <xelister> we used to be rich
3103 2011-05-16 20:16:14 <xelister> then we invested into bitcoins
3104 2011-05-16 20:16:22 <ahbritto> Video is a much more intuitive than text and a bunch of links.
3105 2011-05-16 20:16:33 <BlueMatt> jlewis: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin%20Linux%20Test/1/console
3106 2011-05-16 20:16:40 welterde has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5-dev)
3107 2011-05-16 20:16:46 <BlueMatt> I think that one is 10.11 instead of the 11.04 on my desktop (which also failed)
3108 2011-05-16 20:16:51 <xelister> the bottom is falling out
3109 2011-05-16 20:17:00 <xelister> 7.35
3110 2011-05-16 20:17:12 <BlueMatt> how is that the bottom is falling out?
3111 2011-05-16 20:17:18 kom has joined
3112 2011-05-16 20:17:36 <xelister> dunno, help me rise panic
3113 2011-05-16 20:17:46 <BlueMatt> wtf would you want to do that?
3114 2011-05-16 20:17:51 <BlueMatt> plus this isnt the place, do it on -otc
3115 2011-05-16 20:17:55 <BlueMatt> that is where the traders are anyway
3116 2011-05-16 20:18:24 <xelister> =)
3117 2011-05-16 20:18:41 Kiba has joined
3118 2011-05-16 20:19:34 <jlewis> BlueMatt: thanks - i'm not sure exactly what's causing the disparity between my debian test system and yours, but I've added another commit that I think fixes the issue - could you test again please?
3119 2011-05-16 20:19:51 redwizard_kde has quit (Read error: No route to host)
3120 2011-05-16 20:19:54 <sipa> jlewis: also, each commit on itself should retain the system in a usable state
3121 2011-05-16 20:19:59 <BlueMatt> jlewis: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin%20Linux%20Test/2/console
3122 2011-05-16 20:20:14 <sipa> so if you have bugfixes within the same pull request, please rebase them to a single commit
3123 2011-05-16 20:20:41 <sipa> (you can do that without recreating the pull request, btw)
3124 2011-05-16 20:20:55 <jlewis> you just force push?
3125 2011-05-16 20:20:58 <gjs278> I had to sacrifice a goat last time I attempted to rebase
3126 2011-05-16 20:21:13 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3127 2011-05-16 20:21:22 <sipa> gjs278: did that help?
3128 2011-05-16 20:21:35 <gjs278> yes
3129 2011-05-16 20:21:45 <gjs278> git required the blood of the lamb
3130 2011-05-16 20:22:03 <BlueMatt> jlewis: yes, push -f
3131 2011-05-16 20:22:07 <sipa> i've had that feeling too in the past, but i'm starting to love it :)
3132 2011-05-16 20:22:25 <jlewis> BlueMatt: your site is no longer loading for me :[
3133 2011-05-16 20:22:35 <BlueMatt> jlewis: no?
3134 2011-05-16 20:22:48 <BlueMatt> probably slow, it is on a residential dsl
3135 2011-05-16 20:23:18 <BlueMatt> looks like it built right in any case, though I need to try it on mingw as well...later
3136 2011-05-16 20:23:27 <jlewis> ok
3137 2011-05-16 20:24:21 da2ce7 has joined
3138 2011-05-16 20:24:43 <xelister> 7.2  bottom failing out?
3139 2011-05-16 20:24:52 <BlueMatt> xelister: #bitcoin-otc
3140 2011-05-16 20:25:06 <sipa> BlueMatt: what system requirements does it have to run?
3141 2011-05-16 20:25:19 <BlueMatt> sipa: does what?
3142 2011-05-16 20:25:24 <sipa> jenkins
3143 2011-05-16 20:25:29 <sipa> maybe there is a better place to run it
3144 2011-05-16 20:25:32 <BlueMatt> anything with java afaik
3145 2011-05-16 20:25:50 * sipa fears his VPS will have too little RAM
3146 2011-05-16 20:25:56 <BlueMatt> well I dont have a vps atm, if you want to set it up, please do
3147 2011-05-16 20:26:19 <BlueMatt> though I give that server a pretty big chunk of ram to build with...
3148 2011-05-16 20:26:28 <BlueMatt> but 512 should do fine as well
3149 2011-05-16 20:26:52 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3150 2011-05-16 20:27:14 <sipa> my VPS has 512 MiB RAM, but it also runs other things
3151 2011-05-16 20:27:24 Kiba has joined
3152 2011-05-16 20:27:26 <sipa> (like a bitcoin node, and a lighttpd)
3153 2011-05-16 20:27:27 <BlueMatt> how much does it have free is the question?
3154 2011-05-16 20:27:42 <gjs278> linux lies about the free ram anyways, you'll never know
3155 2011-05-16 20:27:48 <BlueMatt> gjs278: ...?
3156 2011-05-16 20:28:01 <xelister> gjs278: u drunk bro?
3157 2011-05-16 20:28:02 <sipa> 196
3158 2011-05-16 20:28:04 <BlueMatt> free ram == free ram reported - cache
3159 2011-05-16 20:28:39 <sipa> 196 MiB
3160 2011-05-16 20:28:49 <BlueMatt> why do there appear to be more than average drunk people on a monday night here?
3161 2011-05-16 20:28:52 <gjs278> give me the command to check
3162 2011-05-16 20:28:55 <sipa> free -m
3163 2011-05-16 20:28:56 <gjs278> top is wrong
3164 2011-05-16 20:29:03 <BlueMatt> since when
3165 2011-05-16 20:29:08 <Diablo-D3> lol top is wrong
3166 2011-05-16 20:29:10 <Diablo-D3> lolololol
3167 2011-05-16 20:29:11 <sipa> $ free -m
3168 2011-05-16 20:29:11 <sipa>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
3169 2011-05-16 20:29:11 <sipa> Mem:           487        475         12          0         49        134
3170 2011-05-16 20:29:11 <sipa> -/+ buffers/cache:        291        196
3171 2011-05-16 20:29:11 <sipa> Swap:          511        126        385
3172 2011-05-16 20:29:11 <gjs278> since I know I'm not using that much ram
3173 2011-05-16 20:29:17 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3174 2011-05-16 20:29:22 <Diablo-D3> actual free ram == free + buffers + cached
3175 2011-05-16 20:29:33 <gjs278> don't feel like adding all that up
3176 2011-05-16 20:29:33 <sipa> indeed, the 196 number here
3177 2011-05-16 20:29:41 <lulzplzkthx> 5Why do I keep getting this? The last posting from your IP was less than 5 seconds ago. Please try again later.
3178 2011-05-16 20:29:43 <sipa> no need to add things up, it already did that
3179 2011-05-16 20:30:23 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3180 2011-05-16 20:30:23 <gjs278> Mem:   1747764k total,  1466868k used,   280896k free,   137636k buffers
3181 2011-05-16 20:30:23 <lulzplzkthx> That's the third time, and I'm not posting for like 10 minutes in between.
3182 2011-05-16 20:30:40 <BlueMatt> gjs278: subtract cache
3183 2011-05-16 20:30:47 <gjs278> top doesnt have my cache
3184 2011-05-16 20:30:52 <sipa> gjs278: use free
3185 2011-05-16 20:30:55 <sipa> not top
3186 2011-05-16 20:31:01 <BlueMatt> gjs278: yes it does
3187 2011-05-16 20:31:07 <BlueMatt> but either way, free is easier
3188 2011-05-16 20:31:13 <gjs278> where is it
3189 2011-05-16 20:31:17 <BlueMatt> free -m
3190 2011-05-16 20:31:22 <BlueMatt> drunk man?
3191 2011-05-16 20:31:23 <gjs278> no I mean on top
3192 2011-05-16 20:31:26 <gjs278> the cached
3193 2011-05-16 20:31:38 <sipa> Mem:    499508k total,   487536k used,    11972k free,    50884k buffers
3194 2011-05-16 20:31:38 <sipa> Swap:   524280k total,   129564k used,   394716k free,   138104k cached
3195 2011-05-16 20:31:43 <sipa> 138104k cached
3196 2011-05-16 20:31:47 <gjs278> that's swap though isnt it
3197 2011-05-16 20:31:50 <sipa> no
3198 2011-05-16 20:31:55 <sipa> it's just horribly formatted
3199 2011-05-16 20:31:58 <gjs278> oh ok
3200 2011-05-16 20:32:09 <vegard> 50884k buffers is the fs cache
3201 2011-05-16 20:32:11 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3202 2011-05-16 20:32:15 da2ce7 has joined
3203 2011-05-16 20:32:22 <sipa> it's mem:(total,used,free), buffers, swap:(total,used,free), cached
3204 2011-05-16 20:32:27 TD has joined
3205 2011-05-16 20:32:34 <gjs278> so buffers is my cached
3206 2011-05-16 20:32:41 <sipa> no, you have buffers and cache
3207 2011-05-16 20:32:46 <sipa> they're separate things
3208 2011-05-16 20:32:46 <gjs278> gotcha
3209 2011-05-16 20:32:50 Herodes is now known as BTC-fairy
3210 2011-05-16 20:32:55 <sipa> you need the 11972k + 50884 + 138104k here
3211 2011-05-16 20:32:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: looks like ~300M for jenkins itself
3212 2011-05-16 20:32:59 grbgout has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3213 2011-05-16 20:33:00 <BlueMatt> damn java is a memory hog
3214 2011-05-16 20:33:02 <sipa> BlueMatt: won't do :)
3215 2011-05-16 20:33:29 <directhex> ram is cheap.
3216 2011-05-16 20:33:33 <BlueMatt> oh well, I dont know why he cant get to my server, it should work fine
3217 2011-05-16 20:33:39 <andrew12> http://mtgox.heroku.com/ works again
3218 2011-05-16 20:33:42 <gjs278> okay based on those values, what should my free memory be
3219 2011-05-16 20:33:46 <gjs278> and I'll compare it to free -m
3220 2011-05-16 20:33:52 <sipa> directhex: not in vps'es
3221 2011-05-16 20:33:56 BTC-fairy is now known as Herodes
3222 2011-05-16 20:33:58 <directhex> true
3223 2011-05-16 20:34:11 <sipa> it'd cost me 9eur/month to add 512 MiB ram
3224 2011-05-16 20:34:21 <directhex> don't run java things then, if you don't want crazy ram usage?
3225 2011-05-16 20:34:24 <lulzplzkthx> BlueMatt: YES. IT IS.
3226 2011-05-16 20:34:31 <directhex> also ruby. ruby stuff gobbles ram.
3227 2011-05-16 20:34:32 <lulzplzkthx> But trying telling that to what's his face.
3228 2011-05-16 20:34:35 <lulzplzkthx> Diablo-D3:
3229 2011-05-16 20:34:39 <gjs278> my free is reporting as 1276
3230 2011-05-16 20:34:44 <BlueMatt> lulzplzkthx: dont let Diablo-D3 hear you
3231 2011-05-16 20:34:44 <lulzplzkthx> [6~Ruby too.
3232 2011-05-16 20:34:45 <gjs278> on those totals
3233 2011-05-16 20:34:52 <Diablo-D3> I use Eclipse
3234 2011-05-16 20:34:55 <lulzplzkthx> BlueMatt: that was what's his face.
3235 2011-05-16 20:35:03 <Diablo-D3> Im well aware of how much a well designed VM uses.
3236 2011-05-16 20:35:04 <BlueMatt> oh
3237 2011-05-16 20:35:08 <lulzplzkthx> Ruby + Java re two languages I won't touch.
3238 2011-05-16 20:35:18 <gjs278> minecraft uses up to 6gb on me sometimes
3239 2011-05-16 20:35:20 <directhex> garbage collection is hard. let's go shopping.
3240 2011-05-16 20:35:22 <gjs278> if I let it use that much
3241 2011-05-16 20:35:27 <Diablo-D3> minecraft is a fucking pile of shit
3242 2011-05-16 20:35:35 <gjs278> it is
3243 2011-05-16 20:35:41 <Diablo-D3> protip: minecraft would use that much even if it was written in c++
3244 2011-05-16 20:35:42 <sipa> it can simulate ALU's!
3245 2011-05-16 20:35:43 <Diablo-D3> infact, it'd use more
3246 2011-05-16 20:35:52 <directhex> well, it uses lwjgl. what a joke library that is.
3247 2011-05-16 20:35:57 <gjs278> I can tell when someone is just walking straight for about 10 minutes
3248 2011-05-16 20:36:00 <Diablo-D3> directhex: ...
3249 2011-05-16 20:36:06 <disq> ;;bc,stats
3250 2011-05-16 20:36:08 <Diablo-D3> so hows Tao working out for you, eh?
3251 2011-05-16 20:36:08 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124432 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 559 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 12 hours, 42 minutes, and 49 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 228778.45684618
3252 2011-05-16 20:36:14 <gjs278> 2 days
3253 2011-05-16 20:36:16 <vorlov> Diablo-D3: what do you use for desktop manager on your xorg installation?
3254 2011-05-16 20:36:21 <Diablo-D3> vorlov: xfce
3255 2011-05-16 20:36:24 <gjs278> fluxbox here
3256 2011-05-16 20:36:38 <vorlov> i c.... so no need for fency k/g right?
3257 2011-05-16 20:36:48 <vorlov> anything just so the drivers get loaded up in an x env
3258 2011-05-16 20:36:59 <Diablo-D3> a dedi mining box doesnt need anything
3259 2011-05-16 20:37:10 <Diablo-D3> this is an actual desktop here.
3260 2011-05-16 20:37:39 <vorlov> well mine is gonna be dedicated... so no need for any desktop mgr? just put the xorg server and that should be enough for the display drivers to kick in?
3261 2011-05-16 20:37:49 <gjs278> sure
3262 2011-05-16 20:37:49 <vorlov> do i need a graphical tty running at all?
3263 2011-05-16 20:37:57 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3264 2011-05-16 20:38:06 <Diablo-D3> starting x with no wm usually just pops up an xterm
3265 2011-05-16 20:38:08 <gjs278> what distro are you going to use
3266 2011-05-16 20:38:15 <gjs278> a teal xterm
3267 2011-05-16 20:38:20 <Diablo-D3> yes, a teal one
3268 2011-05-16 20:38:22 <Diablo-D3> always a teal one
3269 2011-05-16 20:38:29 <sipa> teal & orange?
3270 2011-05-16 20:38:33 <gjs278> teal and white
3271 2011-05-16 20:38:36 da2ce7 has joined
3272 2011-05-16 20:38:38 <Diablo-D3> and its been that way since I owned a 486
3273 2011-05-16 20:38:49 <vorlov> im going to use ubuntu server
3274 2011-05-16 20:38:52 <vorlov> 11.04
3275 2011-05-16 20:38:55 <Diablo-D3> lolbuntu
3276 2011-05-16 20:38:55 <vorlov> [natty]
3277 2011-05-16 20:39:00 <gjs278> yeah that was my reaction
3278 2011-05-16 20:39:05 <gjs278> lolbuntu indeed
3279 2011-05-16 20:39:12 glassresistor has joined
3280 2011-05-16 20:39:14 <vorlov> do u recommend anything else?
3281 2011-05-16 20:39:17 <gjs278> no
3282 2011-05-16 20:39:56 <gjs278> it doesn't matter really for mining
3283 2011-05-16 20:40:09 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt, but dear god does ubuntu suck
3284 2011-05-16 20:40:10 <vorlov> now do i need to be running a graphical tty or will firing up opencl fire up the xserver as well
3285 2011-05-16 20:40:11 <vorlov> ?
3286 2011-05-16 20:40:16 <gjs278> it would be the worst desktop experience in the world to use ubuntu but for this whatever works
3287 2011-05-16 20:40:21 <vorlov> Diablo-D3: why does ubuntu suck?
3288 2011-05-16 20:40:23 <Diablo-D3> vorlov: no, you need to start X
3289 2011-05-16 20:40:44 <Diablo-D3> philosphically why? I dont know.
3290 2011-05-16 20:40:49 <Diablo-D3> Its one of those unanswered questions
3291 2011-05-16 20:41:12 <Diablo-D3> Its like, "Why does Mark Shuttleworth enjoy his AIDS?" loldunno.
3292 2011-05-16 20:41:17 eps1 has joined
3293 2011-05-16 20:41:21 <Diablo-D3> Its just one of those things.
3294 2011-05-16 20:41:26 <vorlov> no,
3295 2011-05-16 20:41:27 <gjs278> you will run aticonfig --initial --adapter=all and then startx. you will get a teal xterm and your mouse will fly off to the right forever if you have more than one card
3296 2011-05-16 20:41:36 <gjs278> you can type your mining command in that teal window
3297 2011-05-16 20:41:38 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3298 2011-05-16 20:41:39 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: FOOREEEVVAAAARRR
3299 2011-05-16 20:41:41 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: also
3300 2011-05-16 20:41:42 <gjs278> or you can do it from ssh with export in front of it
3301 2011-05-16 20:41:43 <Diablo-D3> he can just ssh in
3302 2011-05-16 20:41:43 <vorlov> why do you personally think it sucks... is it slow? overloaded with useless packages? etc what do u think makes it shitty
3303 2011-05-16 20:41:45 <gjs278> yeah
3304 2011-05-16 20:41:56 <Diablo-D3> vorlov: Im a Debian user. Why do you think I hate it?
3305 2011-05-16 20:42:02 <gjs278> overloaded with useless packages by default
3306 2011-05-16 20:42:11 <gjs278> overloaded with gnome
3307 2011-05-16 20:42:14 <vorlov> I see.... okay my questions are answered Diablo-D3 ;-)
3308 2011-05-16 20:42:27 <Diablo-D3> Ubuntu has done more damage to Debian than anything ever
3309 2011-05-16 20:42:31 djbaniel has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3310 2011-05-16 20:42:34 <Diablo-D3> even Microsoft tried to take down Debian and failed
3311 2011-05-16 20:42:45 <Diablo-D3> Ubuntu is the greatest threat to Linux known to man.
3312 2011-05-16 20:43:16 <gjs278> the greatest things I've ever done on computers is spending hours getting everything to work
3313 2011-05-16 20:43:33 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: ahh I remember those days
3314 2011-05-16 20:43:36 <Diablo-D3> apt-get on dialup took FOREVER
3315 2011-05-16 20:43:47 * sipa remembers debian 2.2
3316 2011-05-16 20:43:54 * Diablo-D3 remembers the great libc5 war.
3317 2011-05-16 20:43:57 <gjs278> 233 mhz processer compiling ports on netbsd
3318 2011-05-16 20:44:06 <Diablo-D3> I remember potato when it was unstable.
3319 2011-05-16 20:44:09 <gjs278> 2gb hard drive runs out of inodes
3320 2011-05-16 20:44:13 <Diablo-D3> Goddamned Im old :<
3321 2011-05-16 20:44:21 <sipa> potato as debian stable was the first linux distro i tried
3322 2011-05-16 20:44:36 <vorlov> i remember getting my first freebsd CD and trying to install over dialup - YUKC
3323 2011-05-16 20:44:36 <Diablo-D3> slink stable was mine, which instantly got converted to potato unstable
3324 2011-05-16 20:44:47 * soultcer gets off of gjs278's and Diablo-D3's lawn, just in case
3325 2011-05-16 20:44:49 <Diablo-D3> the installer was two fucking floppies
3326 2011-05-16 20:45:07 <Diablo-D3> somehow thats mutated into a 120mb CD ISO
3327 2011-05-16 20:45:41 <vorlov> how do you guys set up a startup script to start the miner?
3328 2011-05-16 20:45:47 <vorlov> do u make it part of the xsession
3329 2011-05-16 20:45:47 <vorlov> ?
3330 2011-05-16 20:45:59 <Diablo-D3> vorlov: you could.
3331 2011-05-16 20:46:00 <vorlov> or did u make it an init script
3332 2011-05-16 20:46:19 <vorlov> what did u do?
3333 2011-05-16 20:46:19 <gjs278> startx and put stuff in .xinitrc
3334 2011-05-16 20:46:21 <Diablo-D3> I mean, really, you can just ssh in, startx &, then export DISPLAY=:0, and then run your miner
3335 2011-05-16 20:46:28 <Diablo-D3> its not rocket science.
3336 2011-05-16 20:46:44 <vorlov> ok
3337 2011-05-16 20:46:49 <gjs278> you don't restart the machine that often either way
3338 2011-05-16 20:46:49 <vorlov> i was just wondering what u guys have been doing
3339 2011-05-16 20:46:55 <vorlov> thats true
3340 2011-05-16 20:46:57 <vorlov> ok
3341 2011-05-16 20:47:00 <Diablo-D3> I dont dedi mine, but like I said, its not rocket science
3342 2011-05-16 20:47:19 lulzplzkthx has quit (Quit: leaving)
3343 2011-05-16 20:47:24 <sipa> i just have a script that tests whether it's running already, starts X, waits a few seconds, calls amdovdrctrl, and starts miner
3344 2011-05-16 20:47:24 <vorlov> also, if u have more than one card, do u run the miner twice? once for each card.... or do the miners work on both cards concurrently
3345 2011-05-16 20:47:25 <vorlov> ?
3346 2011-05-16 20:47:30 <sipa> no xinit or xsession or stuff
3347 2011-05-16 20:47:39 <sipa> vorlov: some miners support more than one card
3348 2011-05-16 20:47:39 <gjs278> when I restart, I immediately pop open 3 xterms (or screen), type cd poclbm,  ctrl+r d 1, enter, next window, ctrl+r d 2, enter, d 3, and thats it
3349 2011-05-16 20:47:58 lulzplzkthx has joined
3350 2011-05-16 20:48:00 <sipa> gjs278: i don't need to type anything
3351 2011-05-16 20:48:12 <gjs278> I don't have x start by default
3352 2011-05-16 20:48:13 <sipa> it's in a cronjob that checks whether the miner is running, and if not, starts it :)
3353 2011-05-16 20:48:23 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, do you have ipv4 nat working for ipv6 hosts?
3354 2011-05-16 20:48:25 <gjs278> that's pretty good
3355 2011-05-16 20:48:30 <gjs278> I'm just not dedicated is all
3356 2011-05-16 20:48:35 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: what?
3357 2011-05-16 20:48:36 <sipa> ah, sure
3358 2011-05-16 20:49:03 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
3359 2011-05-16 20:49:16 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, for vps's with only an ipv6 addr to access ipv4 addrs
3360 2011-05-16 20:50:10 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: yes, it works. not included tho
3361 2011-05-16 20:50:34 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: the VPS runs dual-stack, with an IPv4 private address
3362 2011-05-16 20:50:46 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i need a shell to run my ballin sybil attack from, you ok with that?
3363 2011-05-16 20:51:04 <luke-jr> uh?
3364 2011-05-16 20:51:07 <luke-jr> attack?
3365 2011-05-16 20:51:21 <phantomcircuit> yeah
3366 2011-05-16 20:51:30 <luke-jr> legal?
3367 2011-05-16 20:51:49 <phantomcircuit> well it's basically a low bandwidth dos
3368 2011-05-16 20:51:52 <phantomcircuit> so.. no?
3369 2011-05-16 20:52:01 <luke-jr> sorry
3370 2011-05-16 20:52:11 <andrew12> luke-jr: how does one access your pool?
3371 2011-05-16 20:52:14 <luke-jr> andrew12: ?
3372 2011-05-16 20:53:33 <andrew12> luke-jr: how do i use your pool? where is the site?
3373 2011-05-16 20:53:59 <luke-jr> andrew12: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Eligius
3374 2011-05-16 20:54:04 <andrew12> oh, so there is no site.
3375 2011-05-16 20:54:24 eao has joined
3376 2011-05-16 20:54:43 <andrew12> luke-jr: also what exactly does http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/pool/hashrate.txt contain? hashes/s? or khashes? or what? :P
3377 2011-05-16 20:55:06 <luke-jr> hashes/s
3378 2011-05-16 20:55:33 <andrew12> so your pool is currently the most popular?
3379 2011-05-16 20:55:46 <luke-jr> in terms of pure numbers, I doubt it
3380 2011-05-16 20:56:00 <andrew12> in terms of hashrate it looks like it is
3381 2011-05-16 20:56:01 <sipa> http://bitcoinwatch.com/ has a grpah
3382 2011-05-16 20:56:04 <sipa> *graph
3383 2011-05-16 20:56:15 <sipa> and no, eligius isn't that big :D
3384 2011-05-16 20:56:16 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
3385 2011-05-16 20:56:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 39341900.4314 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 4 hours, 46 minutes, and 26 seconds
3386 2011-05-16 20:56:22 <Optimo> so now both my sender and receiver are up over 124k blocks connected. but still no confirmation on a 2 btc tx
3387 2011-05-16 20:56:25 <andrew12> oh huh
3388 2011-05-16 20:56:27 <luke-jr> 39 GH isn't much compared to Deepbit and slush
3389 2011-05-16 20:56:59 <sipa> tcatm: you run bitcoinwatch, right? maybe you can add btcguild.com (they already reached 40Ghash/s)
3390 2011-05-16 20:57:05 <Optimo> is there a way to calculate the longest wait for a tx confirmation?
3391 2011-05-16 20:57:35 <sipa> ;;later tell tcatm could you add btcguild.com to the bitcoinwatch.com pie chart?
3392 2011-05-16 20:57:35 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
3393 2011-05-16 20:57:43 <luke-jr> Optimo: you mean "forever"?
3394 2011-05-16 20:57:47 <luke-jr> sipa: he needs a hashrate URI
3395 2011-05-16 20:58:04 <Optimo> besides forever
3396 2011-05-16 20:58:27 <luke-jr> forever minus 1
3397 2011-05-16 20:58:31 <Optimo> how can one plan to use this tech if the confimations take who-knows how long
3398 2011-05-16 20:58:59 <Optimo> I mean, the sender knows it's sent but the receiver knows nothing
3399 2011-05-16 20:59:07 <luke-jr> receiver knows it's sent
3400 2011-05-16 20:59:26 <Optimo> I have nothing in my tx log (main screen)
3401 2011-05-16 20:59:28 <andrew12> it shows up in the receiver's bitcoin
3402 2011-05-16 20:59:36 <luke-jr> Optimo: then it wasn't sent
3403 2011-05-16 20:59:38 <Optimo> and no balance change yet
3404 2011-05-16 20:59:38 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: receiver can see that it was sent before the next block, just can't verify for 30-60 minutes to be 100% sure
3405 2011-05-16 20:59:39 <luke-jr> or you're offline
3406 2011-05-16 20:59:47 <andrew12> Optimo: the balance change doesn't happen until it's confirmed
3407 2011-05-16 20:59:48 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: better than turnaround on cc processing depending on the vendor
3408 2011-05-16 21:00:01 <jrmithdobbs> tbqh
3409 2011-05-16 21:00:03 AStove has quit ()
3410 2011-05-16 21:00:11 <Optimo> so an hour wait for confirm is oky...I got no problem waiting just new to this
3411 2011-05-16 21:00:30 <phantomcircuit> Optimo, the longer you wait the more confident you are
3412 2011-05-16 21:00:30 <Optimo> but my cleint receiving shows nothing in this regard
3413 2011-05-16 21:00:41 <luke-jr> Optimo: the hour wait is just if you pay a significant enough fee to get it confirmed by the next block
3414 2011-05-16 21:00:44 justanotheruser has joined
3415 2011-05-16 21:00:54 <luke-jr> Optimo: 6 confirmations is equivalent to 6 months undisputed on CC
3416 2011-05-16 21:01:06 <lfm> Optimo: it will show when the next block is found
3417 2011-05-16 21:01:11 <andrew12> why won't bitcoind start... -_-
3418 2011-05-16 21:01:18 <Optimo> which is a few days out I think
3419 2011-05-16 21:01:21 <andrew12> i need a new vps
3420 2011-05-16 21:01:34 <Optimo> so in a few days the receiving client's balance will update?
3421 2011-05-16 21:01:36 <lfm> andrew12: if you are running gui bitcoin then you cant run bitcoind
3422 2011-05-16 21:01:43 <andrew12> lfm: >vps
3423 2011-05-16 21:01:45 <luke-jr> Optimo: it will update as soon as it's sent
3424 2011-05-16 21:01:52 <sipa> Optimo: was the receiver online when it was sent?
3425 2011-05-16 21:01:56 <lfm> andrew12: message?
3426 2011-05-16 21:01:59 <Optimo> yes
3427 2011-05-16 21:02:00 <andrew12> lfm: it's worked before. now it just hangs whenever i try to start it
3428 2011-05-16 21:02:07 <andrew12> andrew@VPS02:~$ bitcoind
3429 2011-05-16 21:02:09 <Optimo> online, but not with as many block as now
3430 2011-05-16 21:02:13 <Optimo> it's been about 45 min
3431 2011-05-16 21:02:21 <andrew12> i should probably reboot this box
3432 2011-05-16 21:02:31 <lfm> andrew12: It may need to catch up if it hasnt run for a while. let it sit
3433 2011-05-16 21:03:01 Joim has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3434 2011-05-16 21:03:06 <Optimo> sipa, the sender client shows the tx unconfirmed in the list; the receiving client shows nothn
3435 2011-05-16 21:03:09 <andrew12> lfm: I've let it sit for half an hour... but that shouldn't matter. it should fork into the background right after you run it
3436 2011-05-16 21:03:20 <Optimo> whoa
3437 2011-05-16 21:03:21 <andrew12> o
3438 2011-05-16 21:03:22 <Optimo> and just like that
3439 2011-05-16 21:03:24 <Optimo> 14 confirms
3440 2011-05-16 21:03:25 <andrew12> forgot to do -daemon
3441 2011-05-16 21:03:30 <Optimo> !
3442 2011-05-16 21:03:31 <sipa> Optimo: on both?
3443 2011-05-16 21:03:39 <Optimo> 19 now, on receiveer
3444 2011-05-16 21:03:42 <sipa> ah
3445 2011-05-16 21:03:44 <andrew12> Optimo: haha, you probably weren't finished downloading the block chain
3446 2011-05-16 21:03:49 <sipa> yes indeed
3447 2011-05-16 21:03:49 <lfm> Optimo: it just caught up to current block?
3448 2011-05-16 21:03:50 <Optimo> just 15 seconds ago it showed nada
3449 2011-05-16 21:03:52 <Optimo> awesome
3450 2011-05-16 21:03:52 <luke-jr> Optimo: so it wasn't online when it was sent
3451 2011-05-16 21:04:01 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
3452 2011-05-16 21:04:01 <gribble> 124439
3453 2011-05-16 21:04:06 <sipa> maybe it was
3454 2011-05-16 21:04:12 <Optimo> coudl the client indicate this 'connectiveness'?
3455 2011-05-16 21:04:20 <Optimo> besides having to know how many blocks total
3456 2011-05-16 21:04:27 <sipa> but it didn't show it yet, because it consider the tx invalid, as it did not see the supporting tx in the block chain yet
3457 2011-05-16 21:04:31 <lfm> Optimo: it does, # connections
3458 2011-05-16 21:04:37 * sipa isn't sure about this
3459 2011-05-16 21:04:52 <Optimo> but it doesnt show how many total, it just shows how many I'm seeing
3460 2011-05-16 21:05:22 <sipa> if it tells you "8 connections" it means it is connected to 8 peers
3461 2011-05-16 21:05:23 <lfm> Optimo: oh, no one really knows how many total if I understand your question
3462 2011-05-16 21:05:28 draaglom has joined
3463 2011-05-16 21:05:29 <Optimo> liek, if I ask the bot here he knows how many there are, but the dumb client doesnt know anything
3464 2011-05-16 21:05:31 <Optimo> ok
3465 2011-05-16 21:05:33 <roconnor> sipa: Oh right.  The protocol doesn't support this use of the merkle tree yet, right?
3466 2011-05-16 21:05:43 welterde has joined
3467 2011-05-16 21:05:49 GermainAdrian has joined
3468 2011-05-16 21:05:59 <sipa> roconnor: i believe a message is missing, to retrieve the merklepath of a tx, yes
3469 2011-05-16 21:06:02 <lfm> roconnor: huh?
3470 2011-05-16 21:06:05 <Optimo> if it had just said I was < 100% blocks I would've just kept waiting
3471 2011-05-16 21:06:11 <GermainAdrian> are future versions of bitcoin client not going to store the entire block chain on my hdd?
3472 2011-05-16 21:06:17 <Optimo> I gues this is somewhat obvious because the block count keeps increasing
3473 2011-05-16 21:06:19 <sipa> GermainAdrian: they won't
3474 2011-05-16 21:06:24 ntosme2 has joined
3475 2011-05-16 21:06:29 <GermainAdrian> sipa: so p2p concept is dead?
3476 2011-05-16 21:06:31 <lfm> Optimo: oh ya, the total blocks cant really be known till you have em
3477 2011-05-16 21:06:45 <sipa> GermainAdrian: i don't see why P2P implies that everyone should have the whole chain?
3478 2011-05-16 21:06:58 <GermainAdrian> sipa: so how will the chain be split up?
3479 2011-05-16 21:07:00 <sipa> if you want to, you'll still be able to store the whole chain
3480 2011-05-16 21:07:02 <sipa> it won't
3481 2011-05-16 21:07:09 <sipa> but just not everyone will choose to store it
3482 2011-05-16 21:07:18 <sipa> obviously miners still will have to
3483 2011-05-16 21:07:30 <GermainAdrian> miners will have to always store the full chain?
3484 2011-05-16 21:07:33 <sipa> yes
3485 2011-05-16 21:07:39 <sipa> a pruned one, though
3486 2011-05-16 21:07:40 <lfm> sipa so if i want full chain, how do I know who to connect to to get it?
3487 2011-05-16 21:08:09 <sipa> lfm: nodes advertise their abilities to others
3488 2011-05-16 21:08:25 <sipa> and you client will keep searching until it finds enough full nodes (those with all blocks) to connect to
3489 2011-05-16 21:08:33 <lfm> sipa so I just randomly connect to nodes till I find a good one?
3490 2011-05-16 21:08:41 <sipa> i suppose
3491 2011-05-16 21:08:49 <GermainAdrian> why is this change happening
3492 2011-05-16 21:08:59 <sipa> change?
3493 2011-05-16 21:09:03 sethsethseth___ has joined
3494 2011-05-16 21:09:05 <lfm> sipa, seem like the partial nodes should have a separate net
3495 2011-05-16 21:09:06 <GermainAdrian> i thought this is a change
3496 2011-05-16 21:09:14 <sipa> it's just a mode of operation that isn't implemented yet
3497 2011-05-16 21:09:21 <sipa> at least not completely
3498 2011-05-16 21:09:30 <lfm> sipa could be really slow to get started
3499 2011-05-16 21:09:37 <sipa> maybe
3500 2011-05-16 21:09:46 <sipa> bootstrapping is still an unsolved issue, imho
3501 2011-05-16 21:09:59 <GermainAdrian> so right now, I have the full bitcoin chain on my pc?
3502 2011-05-16 21:10:02 <sipa> yes
3503 2011-05-16 21:10:04 <GermainAdrian> every transaction ever processed is on my hdd?
3504 2011-05-16 21:10:07 <sipa> yes
3505 2011-05-16 21:10:11 <GermainAdrian> damn.
3506 2011-05-16 21:10:17 <sipa> it's a 150MiB file
3507 2011-05-16 21:10:26 <phantomcircuit> GermainAdrian, you didnt know that?
3508 2011-05-16 21:10:32 <GermainAdrian> phantomcircuit: i thought it was just partial
3509 2011-05-16 21:10:34 <sipa> 157MiB
3510 2011-05-16 21:10:37 sethsethseth____ has joined
3511 2011-05-16 21:10:40 <lfm> when "partial" node starts, what blocks set would it start with what updates would it ask for?
3512 2011-05-16 21:10:49 <GermainAdrian> so 157mb with only a handful of users
3513 2011-05-16 21:10:58 sethsethseth has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3514 2011-05-16 21:10:59 <sipa> it will obviously grow
3515 2011-05-16 21:11:01 <GermainAdrian> it'll be terabytes if this ever becomes anything more-less serious
3516 2011-05-16 21:11:05 <sipa> yes
3517 2011-05-16 21:11:19 <sipa> and therefore a lightweight mode is a high priority to implement
3518 2011-05-16 21:11:26 <sipa> but it does take a lot of work
3519 2011-05-16 21:11:27 ericools has joined
3520 2011-05-16 21:11:28 <ericools> hello
3521 2011-05-16 21:11:43 <sipa> hi
3522 2011-05-16 21:12:57 <ericools> is JackRabiit here?
3523 2011-05-16 21:12:59 <lfm> seems like partial nondes could not connect to other partial nodes at all. theyd be asking each other for blocks they dont have too
3524 2011-05-16 21:13:23 <jrabbit> http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-1272.pdf
3525 2011-05-16 21:13:25 <jrabbit> Jesus
3526 2011-05-16 21:13:39 <jrabbit> there won't be a 4th amendment in a week at this rate
3527 2011-05-16 21:13:41 sethsethseth___ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3528 2011-05-16 21:14:00 <jrabbit> why exactly are we burning our constitution away again
3529 2011-05-16 21:14:41 <raep3d> jrabbit: tldr whats that about?
3530 2011-05-16 21:14:41 <jrmithdobbs> jrabbit: summarize?
3531 2011-05-16 21:14:49 <GermainAdrian> how many transactions have been processed so far?
3532 2011-05-16 21:14:56 <jrabbit> theres a summary on the first 3 pages
3533 2011-05-16 21:15:05 <raep3d> its well established america is too weak to bully other nations, so the govt is turning down on its own people
3534 2011-05-16 21:15:22 <jrabbit> basically the police are allowed to create "exigent circumstances" to allow a warrantless search
3535 2011-05-16 21:15:41 djh2 has joined
3536 2011-05-16 21:15:42 <phantomcircuit> lfm, there is a services field in the address bootstrap, so partial nodes wouldn't be asking partial nodes
3537 2011-05-16 21:15:47 <jrmithdobbs> jrabbit: oh is this the 'they can say they heard you flushing shit down the toilet" thing?
3538 2011-05-16 21:15:52 <jrabbit> jrmithdobbs: yes
3539 2011-05-16 21:15:58 <jrmithdobbs> ya, retarded
3540 2011-05-16 21:16:01 <raep3d> jrabbit: but you can still shoot em, right?
3541 2011-05-16 21:16:06 <jrabbit> raep3d: not in indiana.
3542 2011-05-16 21:16:07 <raep3d> esp when theyre undercover
3543 2011-05-16 21:16:16 <andrew12> gonna try using poclbm since i just realized that numpy comes with os x...
3544 2011-05-16 21:16:21 <jrmithdobbs> raep3d: only if they don't announce they're police officers and you ask them to leave your property
3545 2011-05-16 21:16:25 <jrabbit> and you'd go to jail if you shot a guy under this
3546 2011-05-16 21:16:25 <jrmithdobbs> raep3d: <3 texas
3547 2011-05-16 21:16:47 <raep3d> yeah, texas will be last bastion of whats left of your freedom
3548 2011-05-16 21:17:02 <jrmithdobbs> raep3d: except they've destroyed our schools so it doesn't matter
3549 2011-05-16 21:17:10 <jrabbit> jrmithdobbs: "It almost seems like even though the police got the wrong apt, and the petitioners only mistake was not saying “go the F away and get a warrant” instead making noise akin to the destruction of evidence (drugs)."
3550 2011-05-16 21:17:15 <jrmithdobbs> raep3d: we went from having the best school districts in the nation to some of the worst in < a decade
3551 2011-05-16 21:17:17 djh2 has quit (Client Quit)
3552 2011-05-16 21:17:17 <ericools> so a toilet flush is probable cause now, yay - guess its time to start pooping at the stop n go
3553 2011-05-16 21:17:18 <jrmithdobbs> thanks perry!
3554 2011-05-16 21:17:25 <jrabbit> jrmithdobbs: and Bush.
3555 2011-05-16 21:17:39 <jrmithdobbs> i try to forget he was gov
3556 2011-05-16 21:17:44 <jrabbit> jrmithdobbs: don't forget Bush's education reform that he put on the nation
3557 2011-05-16 21:17:49 <jrmithdobbs> but ya he did some stuff that fucked education too
3558 2011-05-16 21:17:51 <GermainAdrian> some people probably avoided jail thanks to toilets
3559 2011-05-16 21:17:56 <jrabbit> So as texas falls in education we'll see it.
3560 2011-05-16 21:18:00 <jrmithdobbs> (in tx specifically, not the national stuff that fucked everyone)
3561 2011-05-16 21:18:02 <jrabbit> GermainAdrian: lol
3562 2011-05-16 21:18:08 <GermainAdrian> toilets++
3563 2011-05-16 21:18:10 <raep3d> well, if its DEA just raiding some cook
3564 2011-05-16 21:18:18 Lachesis has joined
3565 2011-05-16 21:18:21 <jrabbit> raep3d: DEA could gte a warrant
3566 2011-05-16 21:18:21 <raep3d> the warrants are usually auto-issued anyway
3567 2011-05-16 21:18:28 <jrabbit> these are cunty police
3568 2011-05-16 21:18:33 grbgout has joined
3569 2011-05-16 21:18:34 <GermainAdrian> that is true, warrants are just rubberstamped
3570 2011-05-16 21:18:36 <Lachesis> does bitcoind support -addnode with DNS names yet?
3571 2011-05-16 21:18:38 <jrabbit> who couldn't even pause to get a warrant
3572 2011-05-16 21:18:40 <midnightmagic> awesome. "I smell marijuana.."
3573 2011-05-16 21:18:49 <midnightmagic> "Bash the door in.."
3574 2011-05-16 21:18:50 <raep3d> Lachesis: wrong chan
3575 2011-05-16 21:18:55 <jrabbit> midnightmagic: that alone could have got him a warrant.
3576 2011-05-16 21:18:57 <Lachesis> bitcoin-dev?
3577 2011-05-16 21:19:00 <raep3d> Lachesis: oh wait, nevermind
3578 2011-05-16 21:19:01 <ericools> every building in my town smells like marijuana
3579 2011-05-16 21:19:02 <Lachesis> lol
3580 2011-05-16 21:19:12 <jrabbit> iirc
3581 2011-05-16 21:19:17 <jrabbit> anywho its bullshit
3582 2011-05-16 21:19:18 <GermainAdrian> ericools has been to every building in his town
3583 2011-05-16 21:19:19 <Lachesis> just b/c we're always offtopic doesn't mean that technical questions are off-topic :D
3584 2011-05-16 21:19:22 <GermainAdrian> and they all smell like marijuana
3585 2011-05-16 21:19:28 miopicastronaut_ has joined
3586 2011-05-16 21:19:29 <GermainAdrian> what is ericools's occupation?
3587 2011-05-16 21:19:31 <raep3d> Lachesis: thought it was about namecoin :)
3588 2011-05-16 21:19:37 <Lachesis> oh ok
3589 2011-05-16 21:19:51 <jrmithdobbs> GermainAdrian: professional pot smoker
3590 2011-05-16 21:19:53 <jrmithdobbs> GermainAdrian: obviously
3591 2011-05-16 21:20:03 Titeuf_87_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3592 2011-05-16 21:20:04 <ericools> well, im making an educated guess based on the fairly large number of buildings i have visited
3593 2011-05-16 21:20:06 <GermainAdrian> jrmithdobbs: maybe. maybe he doesnt just smoke it.
3594 2011-05-16 21:20:14 <ericools> I am a manager for a regional inventory service
3595 2011-05-16 21:20:22 <raep3d> DEA/cops should just raid cooks brewing shitty stuff
3596 2011-05-16 21:20:30 <raep3d> sometimes this happens in eu country, people love it
3597 2011-05-16 21:20:32 <jrmithdobbs> or we could just end prohibition
3598 2011-05-16 21:20:37 <jrmithdobbs> pretty sure we've proven it doesn't work at this point
3599 2011-05-16 21:20:53 miopicastronaut_ has quit (Quit: miopicastronaut_)
3600 2011-05-16 21:20:54 <jrabbit> honestly I don't know what prevents the polcie from acting in bad faith now
3601 2011-05-16 21:20:55 <lfm> make addiction a medical problem
3602 2011-05-16 21:21:01 <raep3d> w/o prohibition market will be flooded with dangerous shitty
3603 2011-05-16 21:21:11 <jrmithdobbs> i say let the junkies fuck themselves over. if you're gonna get hooked on opiates and piss your life away you're going to do it whether it's legal or not
3604 2011-05-16 21:21:14 <raep3d> theres need for some quality control
3605 2011-05-16 21:21:17 <jrmithdobbs> too much damned wasted money
3606 2011-05-16 21:21:22 <jrabbit> raep3d: lol look at cocaine
3607 2011-05-16 21:21:30 <ericools> well banning it sure isnt saving any of them
3608 2011-05-16 21:21:38 <lfm> raep3d: huh, ya flooded with corporate drugs
3609 2011-05-16 21:21:48 <jrmithdobbs> i'd be down with that
3610 2011-05-16 21:21:50 <jrabbit> if the cocaine wouldn't kill you the paint thinner would they add in
3611 2011-05-16 21:21:56 <jrmithdobbs> get me some big pharma 2c-e and 2c-b
3612 2011-05-16 21:22:00 <jrmithdobbs> ensured quality
3613 2011-05-16 21:22:01 <jrabbit> actually theres an expensive farming poison in it
3614 2011-05-16 21:22:03 <jrmithdobbs> sounds great to me.
3615 2011-05-16 21:22:20 <jrabbit> s/poison/ vomit inducer or something
3616 2011-05-16 21:22:31 <ericools> im not sure you can dilute coke with paint thinner
3617 2011-05-16 21:22:35 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: you havnt seen the price yet
3618 2011-05-16 21:22:55 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: legal tryptamines are worth whatever price tbqh
3619 2011-05-16 21:23:07 <raep3d> well, drugs and precursors is what makes bitcoin tick
3620 2011-05-16 21:23:07 <raep3d> so junkies are needed for the moment :)
3621 2011-05-16 21:23:08 <GermainAdrian> raep3d: it would be better if they wouldnt use bitcoin
3622 2011-05-16 21:23:08 <GermainAdrian> at least not at first
3623 2011-05-16 21:23:09 <raep3d> why?
3624 2011-05-16 21:23:10 <GermainAdrian> because bitcoin will be declared an act of domestic terrorism
3625 2011-05-16 21:23:10 <GermainAdrian> like minting gold coins
3626 2011-05-16 21:23:10 <raep3d> good, straissand effect
3627 2011-05-16 21:23:14 <jrabbit> ericools: its not that I forget the name
3628 2011-05-16 21:23:16 <raep3d> gold coins are something different, its not OTI
3629 2011-05-16 21:23:17 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: you are an ideal customer! grin
3630 2011-05-16 21:23:21 <raep3d> so laws of the net dont apply :(
3631 2011-05-16 21:23:21 <GermainAdrian> oti?
3632 2011-05-16 21:23:29 <jrabbit> ericools: its some agricultual product that doesn't make economical sense
3633 2011-05-16 21:23:31 <raep3d> GermainAdrian: over the internet
3634 2011-05-16 21:23:32 <ericools> i think most people use baby laxative
3635 2011-05-16 21:23:37 <GermainAdrian> we will see.
3636 2011-05-16 21:23:52 <ericools> or baking soda, cheap and easy to get
3637 2011-05-16 21:23:52 <jrabbit> Deworming
3638 2011-05-16 21:23:54 <jrabbit> thats it
3639 2011-05-16 21:23:58 <raep3d> damn lag
3640 2011-05-16 21:24:06 <jrabbit> http://www.popsci.com/node/42199/?cmpid=enews122409
3641 2011-05-16 21:24:07 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: no just all the fun stuff is way outside of patent infringement time frames already
3642 2011-05-16 21:24:09 <jrabbit> http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-mystery-of-the-tainted-cocaine/Content?oid=4683741
3643 2011-05-16 21:24:09 <GermainAdrian> jrmithdobbs: Ive heard tryptamines are not usually cut
3644 2011-05-16 21:24:12 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: so there will be competitions
3645 2011-05-16 21:24:17 <jrmithdobbs> GermainAdrian: of course not
3646 2011-05-16 21:24:21 <jrabbit> levamisole
3647 2011-05-16 21:24:25 <GermainAdrian> ericools: baby laxative = magnesium citrate?
3648 2011-05-16 21:24:26 <jrmithdobbs> GermainAdrian: most things that aren't H or coke aren't
3649 2011-05-16 21:24:42 <jrmithdobbs> GermainAdrian: and most H and coke are cut with completely safe shit (diph and similar usually)
3650 2011-05-16 21:24:46 horb has joined
3651 2011-05-16 21:24:51 <ericools> afk
3652 2011-05-16 21:24:53 <horb> hola!
3653 2011-05-16 21:24:56 <horb> bitcoin +++!
3654 2011-05-16 21:25:03 <GermainAdrian> jrmithdobbs: I thought coke is usually cut with lidocaine
3655 2011-05-16 21:25:03 <jrabbit> anywho
3656 2011-05-16 21:25:07 <jrmithdobbs> GermainAdrian: the shit you hear about rat poison/etc is mostly propaganda with a few assholes mixed in occassionally
3657 2011-05-16 21:25:17 <jrmithdobbs> GermainAdrian: why the fuck would you cut it with something almost as expensive as coke itself?
3658 2011-05-16 21:25:19 <jrabbit> the weird thing is that deworming drug is epxensive.
3659 2011-05-16 21:25:20 <jrmithdobbs> GermainAdrian: does not compute.
3660 2011-05-16 21:25:24 <GermainAdrian> jrabbit: lidocaine is very cheap
3661 2011-05-16 21:25:27 <jrabbit> GermainAdrian: no...
3662 2011-05-16 21:25:30 <jrabbit> this vet drug
3663 2011-05-16 21:25:34 <jrabbit> that keeps showing up
3664 2011-05-16 21:25:37 <jrmithdobbs> GermainAdrian: not compaired to other things they can cut it with
3665 2011-05-16 21:25:45 <raep3d> buy shitty meth, cut with flour, sell to rich kids who cant tell the difference
3666 2011-05-16 21:25:48 <jrabbit> look in the links
3667 2011-05-16 21:25:51 <jrabbit> :P
3668 2011-05-16 21:26:01 <GermainAdrian> jrmithdobbs: maybe the high end coke is cut with lidocaine
3669 2011-05-16 21:26:06 <GermainAdrian> and lower end with baking soda
3670 2011-05-16 21:26:08 <jrmithdobbs> GermainAdrian: possible
3671 2011-05-16 21:26:18 <GermainAdrian> lidocaine would numb just like pure cocaine.
3672 2011-05-16 21:26:27 <GermainAdrian> that's pretty much the point of using it to cut.
3673 2011-05-16 21:26:58 <GermainAdrian> anyway.
3674 2011-05-16 21:27:07 <GermainAdrian> I thought this was a bitcoin support chat.
3675 2011-05-16 21:27:32 <lfm> yup enuf with the drugs
3676 2011-05-16 21:27:44 jeremydei has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3677 2011-05-16 21:27:59 <raep3d> #bitcoin-dev - where cooks, market speculators & devs meet
3678 2011-05-16 21:28:12 mtfuji_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3679 2011-05-16 21:28:44 <jrmithdobbs> who says they're separate people? ;P
3680 2011-05-16 21:28:54 <GermainAdrian> jrmithdobbs: their lawyers
3681 2011-05-16 21:28:58 <jrmithdobbs> mine too
3682 2011-05-16 21:29:09 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
3683 2011-05-16 21:31:05 Pander has joined
3684 2011-05-16 21:31:26 <GermainAdrian> do you think people at FATF know about bitcoin already?
3685 2011-05-16 21:31:29 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3686 2011-05-16 21:31:51 <Lachesis> the daemon in git head isn't forking properly for me
3687 2011-05-16 21:31:53 <Lachesis> anybody else seen this?
3688 2011-05-16 21:33:06 <jrmithdobbs> define forking "properly" ?
3689 2011-05-16 21:33:42 <jrmithdobbs> cause i just launched it and it's working fine with -daemon
3690 2011-05-16 21:35:40 <sipa> LOL!
3691 2011-05-16 21:35:50 <sipa> anyone saw gavin's avatar on the forum?
3692 2011-05-16 21:36:10 Marcel has joined
3693 2011-05-16 21:36:56 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3694 2011-05-16 21:37:03 <raep3d> http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/Bitcoin#Currency_Value has a point (mildly NSFW)
3695 2011-05-16 21:37:31 sabalaba has joined
3696 2011-05-16 21:37:47 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3697 2011-05-16 21:37:48 <Lachesis> jrmithdobbs, on my box, it doesn't go to the background
3698 2011-05-16 21:38:12 <Lachesis> ah
3699 2011-05-16 21:38:13 <Lachesis> i see
3700 2011-05-16 21:38:17 <Lachesis> need -daemon now
3701 2011-05-16 21:39:17 mologie has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
3702 2011-05-16 21:44:32 robotarmy has joined
3703 2011-05-16 21:44:39 T_X has joined
3704 2011-05-16 21:44:39 T_X has quit (Changing host)
3705 2011-05-16 21:44:39 T_X has joined
3706 2011-05-16 21:47:32 x6763 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3707 2011-05-16 21:47:40 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
3708 2011-05-16 21:47:42 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124445 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 546 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 11 hours, 18 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 229060.37733993
3709 2011-05-16 21:48:02 x6763 has joined
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3711 2011-05-16 21:50:42 <xelister> … Because the coins value is entirely derived from how much jews are spamming slashdot at the moment, the entire ponzi scheme is guaranteed $$$ ... lol
3712 2011-05-16 21:52:53 <OneFixt> xelister: tone it down a bit there
3713 2011-05-16 21:54:45 <jrmithdobbs> think he was quoting something else
3714 2011-05-16 21:55:03 da2ce7 has joined
3715 2011-05-16 21:55:25 <OneFixt> ah, that would make sense
3716 2011-05-16 21:58:21 tcoppi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3717 2011-05-16 21:59:06 plato_ has joined
3718 2011-05-16 21:59:16 tcoppi has joined
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3720 2011-05-16 22:00:08 toffoo has quit ()
3721 2011-05-16 22:00:31 <plato_> hey guys, i'm having a devil of a time getting bitcoin running on arch
3722 2011-05-16 22:00:46 Pander has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110422050619])
3723 2011-05-16 22:01:27 toffoo has joined
3724 2011-05-16 22:01:29 justanotheruser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3725 2011-05-16 22:01:39 <lianj> plato_:  https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=39313
3726 2011-05-16 22:02:21 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3727 2011-05-16 22:03:42 <ntosme2> back to $8
3728 2011-05-16 22:03:57 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
3729 2011-05-16 22:04:53 grbgout has quit (Quit: brb)
3730 2011-05-16 22:05:46 plato_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3731 2011-05-16 22:06:55 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
3732 2011-05-16 22:08:58 <horb> bitcoin is the future
3733 2011-05-16 22:09:05 <horb> long live the btc!
3734 2011-05-16 22:09:36 noagendamarket has joined
3735 2011-05-16 22:09:54 <raep3d> sssh. or you'll be raided for drug possesion.
3736 2011-05-16 22:10:41 LA9KSA has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3737 2011-05-16 22:10:50 hiben has joined
3738 2011-05-16 22:12:09 <hiben> not sure if this is the right channel to ask... is there any way to disable the generation of the debug.log file ? (linux build)
3739 2011-05-16 22:12:31 <sipa> make it a symlink to /dev/null? :)
3740 2011-05-16 22:13:28 <hiben> close enough .. ;-) .. solves my problem, thanks!
3741 2011-05-16 22:13:37 <hiben> (noisy harddrive)
3742 2011-05-16 22:14:01 eps1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3743 2011-05-16 22:14:11 <ArtForz> just add a 5970 or 2, I promise you won't hear the HD again
3744 2011-05-16 22:14:42 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3745 2011-05-16 22:14:48 <Kiba> ArtForz: how big is your GPU farm?
3746 2011-05-16 22:14:53 lumos has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3747 2011-05-16 22:15:25 <ArtForz> ~15Ghps
3748 2011-05-16 22:15:26 <topi`> back from sailing
3749 2011-05-16 22:15:28 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, lolol
3750 2011-05-16 22:15:44 <ArtForz> sold everythign but the 5970s and 5870s
3751 2011-05-16 22:16:14 <Kiba> sold?
3752 2011-05-16 22:16:15 <ArtForz> errr
3753 2011-05-16 22:16:17 <ArtForz> 5970s
3754 2011-05-16 22:16:24 <ArtForz> 5870s gone, too
3755 2011-05-16 22:16:25 <topi`> ArtForz: have you calculated how long it takes for you to pay all those radeons? :)
3756 2011-05-16 22:16:35 <ArtForz> they paid off like 3 months ago
3757 2011-05-16 22:16:39 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: you know of any off the shelf fpgas that'd work well for this kind of hash offloading?
3758 2011-05-16 22:16:52 <Kiba> ArtForz: so you sold your GPU farms?
3759 2011-05-16 22:16:55 <ArtForz> altera something-Ivs
3760 2011-05-16 22:16:57 <ArtForz> nope
3761 2011-05-16 22:17:03 <ArtForz> still got the 24 5970s
3762 2011-05-16 22:17:17 agricocb has joined
3763 2011-05-16 22:17:19 <Kiba> so you sold all your 5870s?
3764 2011-05-16 22:17:22 <ArtForz> but at $0.3/kWh, losing the 5870s made sense
3765 2011-05-16 22:17:25 <Kiba> did you sold it in the bitcoin economy?
3766 2011-05-16 22:17:30 <ArtForz> nope, ebay
3767 2011-05-16 22:17:35 <ArtForz> "good as new"
3768 2011-05-16 22:17:36 <Kiba> :(
3769 2011-05-16 22:17:40 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: wait seriously? you'd say altera? .... i may drive down there and talk to them!
3770 2011-05-16 22:17:41 <ArtForz> yay for intake filters
3771 2011-05-16 22:17:41 <Kiba> you are disloyal to the tribe
3772 2011-05-16 22:17:47 <jrmithdobbs> <3 austin
3773 2011-05-16 22:17:58 <sipa> 625Mhash/s per 5970? that doesn't seem to be too much
3774 2011-05-16 22:18:00 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: yea
3775 2011-05-16 22:18:09 <ArtForz> cyclone IVs are awesome
3776 2011-05-16 22:18:17 <Kiba> the bitcoin tribe wishes for used GPUs, but you sold it to the other tribe instead
3777 2011-05-16 22:18:32 <ArtForz> still only half the Mh/$ compared to my ASICS, but decent hash/W
3778 2011-05-16 22:18:53 <sipa> you have them at stock speed, ArtForz?
3779 2011-05-16 22:19:00 <ArtForz> 5970s?
3780 2011-05-16 22:19:01 <gjs278> for some reason two of my sends aren't going through on people
3781 2011-05-16 22:19:02 <sipa> yes
3782 2011-05-16 22:19:03 <ArtForz> hell no
3783 2011-05-16 22:19:12 <ArtForz> OCed to the limit
3784 2011-05-16 22:19:16 <ArtForz> increases Mh/J
3785 2011-05-16 22:19:22 <sipa> 15Gh/s with 24 5970's = 625Mh/s
3786 2011-05-16 22:19:32 <sipa> that's doable at stock speed :)
3787 2011-05-16 22:19:45 <ArtForz> okay, you got me, maybe 18 or so
3788 2011-05-16 22:20:03 <ArtForz> got them at 840 core avg
3789 2011-05-16 22:20:04 <gjs278> http://pastebin.com/kF8an6fu is there any reason this is failing, I don't see it in the waiting to be processed blocks or whatever
3790 2011-05-16 22:20:08 <ArtForz> and 3 of my ASICS died :/
3791 2011-05-16 22:20:10 <sipa> 833Mhash/s, iznice!
3792 2011-05-16 22:20:23 <ntosme2> ArtForz: wow...I'm approaching the number of cards you have
3793 2011-05-16 22:20:24 <jrmithdobbs> where can you even find 5970s thought they were discontinued
3794 2011-05-16 22:20:34 <ArtForz> no clue what happened, they just started produicong andom garbage FNAR
3795 2011-05-16 22:20:41 <jrmithdobbs> sucks
3796 2011-05-16 22:20:50 DuoSRX has quit ()
3797 2011-05-16 22:21:19 <ArtForz> my guess is bad solder job didnt connect a few of the core vcc pins, and the rest was overloaded
3798 2011-05-16 22:22:17 <ArtForz> but compared to external assembly house, losing a few to ... nonideal... manual placement + nitrogen toaster reflow is still cheaper
3799 2011-05-16 22:22:52 <Kiba> FNAR?
3800 2011-05-16 22:22:58 <ArtForz> for no apparent reason
3801 2011-05-16 22:23:24 <andrew12> it's kind of amazing that one block is worth $400 right now
3802 2011-05-16 22:23:32 <ArtForz> they worked fine for a few weeks, suddenly started returning garbage
3803 2011-05-16 22:23:56 <ArtForz> cooler temp is logged and was fine, so they didnt overheat
3804 2011-05-16 22:24:23 <ntosme2> I like the fact that GPUs can generally be re-sold
3805 2011-05-16 22:24:31 <ArtForz> and I dont feel like getting the boxes back from colo to get the chips for failure analysis
3806 2011-05-16 22:25:06 <xelister>  /msg Diablo-D3 it would appear the ninjas successfully poisoned the chineses metall magazines near the fabrication plant.
3807 2011-05-16 22:25:10 <xelister> oh..
3808 2011-05-16 22:25:11 <ArtForz> also would have to fix the bottom heater on my rework station, fuck that
3809 2011-05-16 22:25:18 da2ce7 has joined
3810 2011-05-16 22:25:27 <ArtForz> if they want to die, fine, the rest works
3811 2011-05-16 22:25:40 <darksk1ez> anybody transferred from mtgox to a uk bank?
3812 2011-05-16 22:25:50 <ArtForz> just disable their clocks and ignore
3813 2011-05-16 22:26:07 Blitzboom_ has joined
3814 2011-05-16 22:26:12 Necrosporus has joined
3815 2011-05-16 22:26:30 <ArtForz> yay for designed in fault tolerance
3816 2011-05-16 22:26:35 <directhex> darksk1ez: yo.
3817 2011-05-16 22:26:46 hiben has left ("maybe sleeping")
3818 2011-05-16 22:26:56 <ArtForz> as long as the controller works, dead chips = sucks, but not a real prolem
3819 2011-05-16 22:27:22 * Kiba fishes for employees and translations
3820 2011-05-16 22:27:26 <darksk1ez> directhex: howdy! trying to figure out if my bank is SEPA or not :)
3821 2011-05-16 22:27:40 <directhex> darksk1ez: which bank?
3822 2011-05-16 22:27:43 <Kiba> ya have no idea how hard it is to find people who will reliably produce an article every week
3823 2011-05-16 22:27:50 <darksk1ez> directhex: halifax or cooperative
3824 2011-05-16 22:27:51 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3825 2011-05-16 22:28:18 <directhex> darksk1ez: all uk banks should be. check a bank statement for your IBAN/BIC
3826 2011-05-16 22:28:26 <darksk1ez> yeh, i have one of those
3827 2011-05-16 22:28:34 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3828 2011-05-16 22:29:25 <directhex> darksk1ez: tbh it was fast and professional. withdrew $107 on 11th may, £62.17 arrived in my hsbc account on 12th may
3829 2011-05-16 22:29:41 <darksk1ez> directhex: magic
3830 2011-05-16 22:29:47 <darksk1ez> thanks f
3831 2011-05-16 22:29:50 <darksk1ez> for letting me know
3832 2011-05-16 22:30:05 <directhex> darksk1ez: nerve-wracking for those 48 hours though
3833 2011-05-16 22:30:08 WakiMiko has quit (Excess Flood)
3834 2011-05-16 22:30:26 <darksk1ez> might do a smaller txn first
3835 2011-05-16 22:30:27 WakiMiko has joined
3836 2011-05-16 22:30:27 dust1 has joined
3837 2011-05-16 22:30:37 <darksk1ez> not sure if i have to declare capital gains tax or anything
3838 2011-05-16 22:31:01 <phantomcircuit> darksk1ez, yes you probably do
3839 2011-05-16 22:31:46 <darksk1ez> but i didnt buy them, so how does that work :/
3840 2011-05-16 22:31:57 Mike10010100 has joined
3841 2011-05-16 22:32:27 <phantomcircuit> darksk1ez, im just making shit up i have no idea
3842 2011-05-16 22:32:41 da2ce7 has joined
3843 2011-05-16 22:33:36 <Mike10010100> Hey, I have a question. I keep getting a "could not bind to port 8333" so I passed a -nolisten, and now it says it has 8 connections, but no incoming blocks or transactions
3844 2011-05-16 22:33:44 <EPiSKiNG> I keep getting this error when trying to start phoenix or poclbm
3845 2011-05-16 22:33:46 <EPiSKiNG> pyopencl.LogicError: clGetPlatformIDs failed: invalid/unknown error code
3846 2011-05-16 22:34:17 <EPiSKiNG> any ideas
3847 2011-05-16 22:34:36 <phantomcircuit> lolll
3848 2011-05-16 22:34:45 <EPiSKiNG> I have openCL 2.4 extracted, but i guess it's not installed all the way
3849 2011-05-16 22:35:11 <directhex> EPiSKiNG: ubuntu?
3850 2011-05-16 22:35:14 <EPiSKiNG> yessir
3851 2011-05-16 22:35:37 <directhex> EPiSKiNG: let me know if you fix it. i gave up on mining on ubuntu for now, due to opencl's fuckedness
3852 2011-05-16 22:35:42 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3853 2011-05-16 22:35:52 <EPiSKiNG> what are you using?
3854 2011-05-16 22:36:09 <directhex> EPiSKiNG: natty, a 6970, and amd app sdk 2.4
3855 2011-05-16 22:36:13 plato_ has joined
3856 2011-05-16 22:36:20 <Necrosporus> I have restored my wallet from backup
3857 2011-05-16 22:36:22 <EPiSKiNG> natty i think is what I have set up also
3858 2011-05-16 22:36:28 <Necrosporus> And there is 0 balance
3859 2011-05-16 22:36:52 <Necrosporus> Does it mean, someone steal all coins or I'm doing something wrong?
3860 2011-05-16 22:37:05 <EPiSKiNG> I did: sudo apt-get install build-essential cdbs fakeroot dh-make debhelper debconf libstdc++6 dkms libqtgui4 wget execstack libelfg0 g++ libboost-all-dev subversion git-core python-numpy
3861 2011-05-16 22:38:03 <gjs278> he's got his drivers setup and fglrxinfo report the cards, just the opencl part isnt being detected
3862 2011-05-16 22:38:08 <gjs278> on poclbm or phoenix
3863 2011-05-16 22:38:13 <gjs278> and away I go
3864 2011-05-16 22:38:23 <EPiSKiNG> thanks for your help gjs278
3865 2011-05-16 22:38:26 <gjs278> np
3866 2011-05-16 22:38:41 <dirtyfilthy> Necrosporus: did you rescan the block chain?
3867 2011-05-16 22:38:53 <EPiSKiNG> 1 BTC bounty for helping me get poclbm working!
3868 2011-05-16 22:39:06 <sipa> 0.3.21 doesn't need to rescan anymore unless things go very wrong
3869 2011-05-16 22:39:13 <Necrosporus> dirtyfilthy, how to do it?
3870 2011-05-16 22:39:13 <sipa> it will do that automatically
3871 2011-05-16 22:39:21 <sipa> Necrosporus: which version are you running?
3872 2011-05-16 22:39:30 <Necrosporus> latest one
3873 2011-05-16 22:39:44 <phantomcircuit> Necrosporus,  ./bitcoin -rescan
3874 2011-05-16 22:40:27 <Mike10010100> anyone able to solve the binding problem with port 8333?
3875 2011-05-16 22:40:33 clarkm has joined
3876 2011-05-16 22:41:19 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3877 2011-05-16 22:41:24 <Necrosporus> Maybe I just have to wait for blocks?
3878 2011-05-16 22:42:28 <sipa> use -addnode
3879 2011-05-16 22:42:40 <sipa> with the ip of one of the fallback nodes on the wiki
3880 2011-05-16 22:42:50 dust1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3881 2011-05-16 22:44:01 <EPiSKiNG> can someone help me get OpenCL working on my Ubuntu/Natty box please?  I will pay!
3882 2011-05-16 22:45:15 <directhex> EPiSKiNG: be careful about installing python-opencl, by the way. due to fucking packaging, it installs the nvidia driver
3883 2011-05-16 22:45:48 <gjs278> how do you disable the nvidia driver part of it
3884 2011-05-16 22:45:50 eoss has joined
3885 2011-05-16 22:45:52 miopicastronaut has joined
3886 2011-05-16 22:46:25 plato_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3887 2011-05-16 22:46:26 <directhex> rebuild the package. once nvidia-glx comes in, it'll overwrite a bunch of libs like libopengl. i wouldn't trust opencl to work with it there
3888 2011-05-16 22:46:36 plato_ has joined
3889 2011-05-16 22:46:55 <directhex> i mentioned it was fucked, right?
3890 2011-05-16 22:49:36 da2ce7 has joined
3891 2011-05-16 22:51:33 <xelister> Diablo-D3: your miner slows down to half speed or less over time.
3892 2011-05-16 22:51:52 <EPiSKiNG> ;;bc,gen 243430
3893 2011-05-16 22:51:53 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 243430 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 1.55532429102 BTC per day and 0.0648051787924 BTC per hour.
3894 2011-05-16 22:52:10 annieL has joined
3895 2011-05-16 22:52:30 <horb> http://blog.nj.com/njv_barry_carter/2011/05/carter_newark_man_acts_as_his.html  excellent article detailing the epic struggle of one man against the feudal system of property rights
3896 2011-05-16 22:52:38 * EPiSKiNG throws in the towel, and is headed back to Windows
3897 2011-05-16 22:52:45 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3898 2011-05-16 22:53:48 da2ce7 has joined
3899 2011-05-16 22:54:19 <gjs278> keep a copy of that partition, I'm looking up stuff for it
3900 2011-05-16 22:55:00 Mike10010100 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3901 2011-05-16 22:56:37 Necrosporus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3902 2011-05-16 22:56:54 anatoly_l has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3903 2011-05-16 22:58:14 <EPiSKiNG> ok
3904 2011-05-16 22:58:18 djbaniel has joined
3905 2011-05-16 22:59:26 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3906 2011-05-16 23:01:07 <topi`> the rise of value of BTC has been great, but in one way it's been disappointing to see how the community reacts
3907 2011-05-16 23:01:36 <topi`> a long ago, many bounties were started, from making btc videos to making wikipedia translations
3908 2011-05-16 23:01:39 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: how many cells /clbs you talking to get those 30-50Mhash/fpga numbers?
3909 2011-05-16 23:01:50 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3910 2011-05-16 23:01:52 <ArtForz> 70Mh/FPGA
3911 2011-05-16 23:02:02 <horb> ArtForz: did you buy a lamborghini yet?
3912 2011-05-16 23:02:04 <topi`> the sums were modest at those times. but now these bounties aren't being paid, b/c the 20 btc is suddenly very valuable
3913 2011-05-16 23:02:04 <ArtForz> and thats for a 70% used S6-LX150
3914 2011-05-16 23:02:23 <dirtyfilthy> topi`: which bounty are you talking about?
3915 2011-05-16 23:02:26 <topi`> (and i'm not the only one who was without the bounty altough such a bounty was set up)
3916 2011-05-16 23:02:44 <topi`> dirtyfilthy: i know that at least the wikipedia translations bounties haven't been paid
3917 2011-05-16 23:03:10 <topi`> but i guess it applies to other bounties as well. when the btc came up in value, ppl didn't want to spend any longer
3918 2011-05-16 23:03:13 <topi`> but hoarding started
3919 2011-05-16 23:03:14 <ArtForz> 70Mh on a $180 chip = not really useful
3920 2011-05-16 23:03:33 ezl has joined
3921 2011-05-16 23:03:45 jercos has joined
3922 2011-05-16 23:03:52 <horb> papal transacts around 74 billion a year. at a 100x money multiplier that means 1 btc could be worth $30,539 if volumes reach the size of paypal today
3923 2011-05-16 23:04:28 <jercos> On the othwer hand, inflation means that $30,539 will buy you a nice cake :p
3924 2011-05-16 23:04:38 <ArtForz> and I'd shit rainbows if the laws of physics didn't apply
3925 2011-05-16 23:04:40 <noagendamarket> papal ?
3926 2011-05-16 23:04:51 <ArtForz> it'll take years before the shee... public notices bitcoin
3927 2011-05-16 23:04:57 <jercos> Hey, that's how google pronounces paypal.
3928 2011-05-16 23:05:06 <horb> sorry i moved the decimal place
3929 2011-05-16 23:05:12 <ArtForz> payfraud
3930 2011-05-16 23:05:14 <horb> 1 btc would be $35 haha
3931 2011-05-16 23:05:18 <noagendamarket> its about as evil as the pope yes :)
3932 2011-05-16 23:05:37 <topi`> "the pope recommends paypal"
3933 2011-05-16 23:05:37 <ArtForz> at least the pope only fucks a few boys and not half the fucking planet
3934 2011-05-16 23:05:43 <noagendamarket> lawl
3935 2011-05-16 23:05:44 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: it is when comparing to .8-1.2kWh/node
3936 2011-05-16 23:05:44 <jercos> What if the pope declared bitcoin the official currency of the catholic church?
3937 2011-05-16 23:05:46 <topi`> OL
3938 2011-05-16 23:05:46 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: heh
3939 2011-05-16 23:05:53 <jercos> Then it would be paypal vs. papal!
3940 2011-05-16 23:05:59 <ArtForz> jercos: then bitcoin woudl still be awesome
3941 2011-05-16 23:06:02 zirpu has joined
3942 2011-05-16 23:06:05 <noagendamarket> wed be holy rollers ?
3943 2011-05-16 23:06:06 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: not to mention cooling
3944 2011-05-16 23:06:13 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: yes
3945 2011-05-16 23:06:17 <ArtForz> still no business case
3946 2011-05-16 23:06:22 <directhex> the vattican has reversed its earlier "cover up everything" edict & now recommends cooperating with law enforcement. subject to loca bishops' rulings.
3947 2011-05-16 23:06:24 <ArtForz> I ran the numbers, FPGa = lose
3948 2011-05-16 23:06:26 <directhex> how forward0thinking.
3949 2011-05-16 23:06:35 <ArtForz> especially as you can assume next gen GPUs = mid-late 2012
3950 2011-05-16 23:06:48 da2ce7 has joined
3951 2011-05-16 23:06:49 da2ce7 has quit (Changing host)
3952 2011-05-16 23:06:49 da2ce7 has joined
3953 2011-05-16 23:06:51 <jercos> Maybe December 2012 even?
3954 2011-05-16 23:06:53 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: if you can afford the asic upfront cost sure
3955 2011-05-16 23:06:54 <ArtForz> and those will have at leat 30ß% lower power consumption unless they totally fuck up 28nm
3956 2011-05-16 23:06:56 <jercos> Around the 21st?
3957 2011-05-16 23:07:01 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: yes
3958 2011-05-16 23:07:04 <horb> if the money multiplier is 10x, then at paypal size of $74 bn transactions, 1 btc = $352
3959 2011-05-16 23:07:08 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: we can't ;P
3960 2011-05-16 23:07:18 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: trying to keep dirty vcs out of the equation.
3961 2011-05-16 23:07:28 <sipa> obviously on 21 dec 2012 both the new GPU gen will launch, and block 210000 will be reached
3962 2011-05-16 23:07:30 <ArtForz> vcs = fucking vampires
3963 2011-05-16 23:07:36 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: fpga would be a stepping stone to asic for us
3964 2011-05-16 23:07:44 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: not worth it
3965 2011-05-16 23:07:47 <jercos> And then the global economy will die?
3966 2011-05-16 23:07:54 <ArtForz> I tried to make it work, it... dopen't
3967 2011-05-16 23:07:57 <ArtForz> *doesn't
3968 2011-05-16 23:07:59 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: hmmm
3969 2011-05-16 23:08:01 <hyperjacker> can someone send me .00001 btc?
3970 2011-05-16 23:08:05 <jercos> No.
3971 2011-05-16 23:08:08 <jrmithdobbs> hyperjacker: no wrong channel
3972 2011-05-16 23:08:12 marlowe has joined
3973 2011-05-16 23:08:19 <ArtForz> either go structured asic or keep adding GPUs and go for cheapest power on the planet
3974 2011-05-16 23:08:22 <topi`> hyperjacker: i can send you testnet-bitcoins
3975 2011-05-16 23:08:31 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: problem is mostly cooling
3976 2011-05-16 23:08:37 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: been told to diaf by 3 colos so far
3977 2011-05-16 23:08:37 <ArtForz> coolign what?
3978 2011-05-16 23:08:38 <jrmithdobbs> haha
3979 2011-05-16 23:08:46 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: iceland
3980 2011-05-16 23:08:51 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: they don't want space heaters in their dcs
3981 2011-05-16 23:08:51 <ArtForz> srsly.
3982 2011-05-16 23:09:18 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: don't talk to DC guys, they're idiots
3983 2011-05-16 23:09:21 <directhex> most colo facilities assume 20% utilization, and budget for cooling accordingly
3984 2011-05-16 23:09:24 <jrmithdobbs> when i got to the point of saying "3 nodes per 120A circuit or 6 per 208A" they almost hung up on me. seriously.
3985 2011-05-16 23:09:32 <ArtForz> they still think they sell BW and power/cooling is a bad thing
3986 2011-05-16 23:09:35 <directhex> at my previous job we budgeted 11KW per rack
3987 2011-05-16 23:09:44 <ArtForz> talk to HPC guys
3988 2011-05-16 23:09:45 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: they're catching on finally actually
3989 2011-05-16 23:09:53 <directhex> HPC is where it's at
3990 2011-05-16 23:09:54 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: where the hell do HPC guys shove this stuff?
3991 2011-05-16 23:10:03 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: in ell cooled racks ;)
3992 2011-05-16 23:10:04 <directhex> jrmithdobbs: better data centers.
3993 2011-05-16 23:10:06 <ArtForz> +w
3994 2011-05-16 23:10:18 <ArtForz> in data centers with non-braindead owners
3995 2011-05-16 23:10:21 <jrmithdobbs> yes see we're trying to find said datacenters to lease space in
3996 2011-05-16 23:10:30 <ArtForz> that realize density > ease of cooling
3997 2011-05-16 23:10:38 <directhex> jrmithdobbs: like i said, we budgeted 11kw per rack at oxford. and that was after the contractors downgraded our figures
3998 2011-05-16 23:10:52 <ArtForz> floor space is more expensive than more BTU/rack in the long run
3999 2011-05-16 23:11:03 <directhex> depends on where you are in the world
4000 2011-05-16 23:11:08 <directhex> sometimes floor space is cheaper
4001 2011-05-16 23:11:20 <ArtForz> directhex: in the cvlized world and the US
4002 2011-05-16 23:11:43 <directhex> central london they build centers from blades in 20+kw racks
4003 2011-05-16 23:11:44 <ArtForz> unless you'Re in bumfuck, siberia, floor space costs a shitload more than a bigger liebert
4004 2011-05-16 23:11:50 bleh88 has joined
4005 2011-05-16 23:12:19 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, atlanta georgia and texas space is infinitely cheaper than cooling
4006 2011-05-16 23:12:54 <directhex> yeah, plenty of wide open space in the US
4007 2011-05-16 23:12:58 <ArtForz> we also still have a few free square miles of sea floor
4008 2011-05-16 23:13:04 <ArtForz> just the connectivity sucks
4009 2011-05-16 23:13:15 <directhex> ArtForz: lies. that's where all the transatlatic cables are
4010 2011-05-16 23:13:21 <ArtForz> and once you run out of local hydro, sucks to be you
4011 2011-05-16 23:13:23 <directhex> just splice in, and bingo!
4012 2011-05-16 23:13:24 <topi`> no, those sea floor sqmiles are going to be drilled for oil ;)
4013 2011-05-16 23:14:16 <horb> im selling some martian real estate
4014 2011-05-16 23:14:20 multiHYP has joined
4015 2011-05-16 23:14:24 <multiHYP> hi
4016 2011-05-16 23:14:24 <ArtForz> oil is dead anyways
4017 2011-05-16 23:14:30 vorlov has joined
4018 2011-05-16 23:14:47 <ArtForz> in a few years synthezising HCs from coal will be cheaper
4019 2011-05-16 23:14:49 <multiHYP> how can i use the bitcoin software in conjunction with mybitcoin.com service?
4020 2011-05-16 23:14:59 <ArtForz> boy will the guys in the middle east look stupid
4021 2011-05-16 23:15:04 <sipa> multiHYP: by sending bitcoins from one to the other?
4022 2011-05-16 23:15:26 <multiHYP> so i should forward everything in one of them to the other one?
4023 2011-05-16 23:15:46 <sipa> it's just two separate wallets
4024 2011-05-16 23:15:51 <topi`> "forward" is a weird term. you can't spend your coins and have them.
4025 2011-05-16 23:15:51 <ArtForz> HYP? like High Yield Program?
4026 2011-05-16 23:15:53 <sipa> one managed by you, one managed by them
4027 2011-05-16 23:16:10 <multiHYP> ok so how can i earn bitcoins?
4028 2011-05-16 23:16:10 <sipa> and you don't need both
4029 2011-05-16 23:16:18 <sipa> by selling goods/services
4030 2011-05-16 23:16:21 <sipa> or buying them
4031 2011-05-16 23:16:21 <ArtForz> great, the first non-sarcastic bitcoin ponzi
4032 2011-05-16 23:16:22 <topi`> multiHYP: start selling alpaca socks.
4033 2011-05-16 23:16:31 <ArtForz> alpaca socks are the new silver
4034 2011-05-16 23:16:37 <multiHYP> >
4035 2011-05-16 23:16:43 <multiHYP> what is that even?
4036 2011-05-16 23:16:47 <ArtForz> silver?
4037 2011-05-16 23:16:51 <ArtForz> it's a shiny metal
4038 2011-05-16 23:16:52 <andrew12> heh
4039 2011-05-16 23:16:54 jmpespxo1eax has joined
4040 2011-05-16 23:17:01 <topi`> the silver price has crashed, it was $47 like 3 weeks ago and now it's $33
4041 2011-05-16 23:17:04 <horb> hey i did a bitcoin futures deal with a guy a few months ago but i cant find him
4042 2011-05-16 23:17:08 <ArtForz> topi`: exactly
4043 2011-05-16 23:17:11 <horb> it was on this chan
4044 2011-05-16 23:17:23 <directhex> anyone want pizza? only 10,000 BTC!
4045 2011-05-16 23:17:27 <topi`> that's pretty quick, so bitcoin isn't the only one with a lot of fluctuation
4046 2011-05-16 23:18:03 <ArtForz> directhex: including hookers and blow?
4047 2011-05-16 23:18:07 <horb> luke-jr sup bro
4048 2011-05-16 23:18:07 <topi`> the world's most expensive pizza :)
4049 2011-05-16 23:18:24 <multiHYP> so what is the number of blocks ramming through my harddrive?
4050 2011-05-16 23:18:35 <ArtForz> multiHYP: OVER 9000!!!
4051 2011-05-16 23:18:45 <ArtForz> ;;bc,blocks
4052 2011-05-16 23:18:45 <gribble> 124459
4053 2011-05-16 23:18:52 <directhex> ArtForz: for 10,000 BTC i'd throw in an overnighter with an escort in london, and a bottle of the most premium rum on the planet. plus a couple of large dominos pizzas, of course.
4054 2011-05-16 23:18:53 <ArtForz> see, over 9000.
4055 2011-05-16 23:19:17 jmpespxoreax has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4056 2011-05-16 23:19:19 <multiHYP> ;;bc,blocks
4057 2011-05-16 23:19:19 <gribble> 124459
4058 2011-05-16 23:19:32 <multiHYP> i don't get this whole bitcoin thingy
4059 2011-05-16 23:19:33 <andrew12> har har har
4060 2011-05-16 23:19:42 <ArtForz> directhex: I sold well > 100k at $0.06 ...
4061 2011-05-16 23:19:42 <multiHYP> if i don't use it, what good is it to me?
4062 2011-05-16 23:19:59 <andrew12> multiHYP: it's no good if you don't use it. what kind of question is that?
4063 2011-05-16 23:20:16 <directhex> ArtForz: did i forget to say "limited-time offer"? :p
4064 2011-05-16 23:20:17 <multiHYP> so i am thinking what i could use bitcoins for...
4065 2011-05-16 23:20:19 <horb> luke-jr sup!!
4066 2011-05-16 23:20:21 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4067 2011-05-16 23:20:32 <topi`> multiHYP: buy alpaca socks.
4068 2011-05-16 23:20:32 <multiHYP> apart from buying things
4069 2011-05-16 23:20:41 <ArtForz> directhex: btw, I should kick myself
4070 2011-05-16 23:20:48 <directhex> multiHYP: imagine you could buy a vibrating butt plug with faux feather tail, in exchange for 2 days' computing time.
4071 2011-05-16 23:20:49 <horb> alpaca sox = delicious
4072 2011-05-16 23:20:50 <multiHYP> you have to have some bitcoins to buy stuff though, i don't have any...
4073 2011-05-16 23:20:57 <topi`> multiHYP: speculate, like everybody else
4074 2011-05-16 23:21:18 <multiHYP> oh so i am selling my processing power?
4075 2011-05-16 23:21:26 phantomcircuit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4076 2011-05-16 23:21:34 <ArtForz> just holding on to those several 100k, I could pretty much just eat sleep and fuck for the rest of my life
4077 2011-05-16 23:21:39 <directhex> ArtForz: yeah, coming in only recently it seems pretty painful to imagine the change in exchange rate
4078 2011-05-16 23:21:47 <sipa> multiHYP: you can buy bitcoins for things like dollars
4079 2011-05-16 23:21:58 <andrew12> sipa: omg, dollars?!
4080 2011-05-16 23:22:03 <sipa> typically a lot easier than generate them yourself
4081 2011-05-16 23:22:07 <multiHYP> no im fine with exchanging for processing power
4082 2011-05-16 23:22:07 <andrew12> what is this new currency? :p
4083 2011-05-16 23:22:18 <sipa> multiHYP: what graphics card do you have?
4084 2011-05-16 23:22:20 phantomcircuit has joined
4085 2011-05-16 23:22:20 <multiHYP> dollars are still more worth than bitcoins :D
4086 2011-05-16 23:22:22 <andrew12> multiHYP: you won't get very much very quickly if you do that.
4087 2011-05-16 23:22:28 <ArtForz> dollars? they're backed by nothing but a few thugs with guns.
4088 2011-05-16 23:22:28 <directhex> multiHYP: like any currency, you can buy and sell them in exchange for a second currenct - or you can sell/buy goods & services for them. or you could generate your own
4089 2011-05-16 23:22:31 <andrew12> multiHYP: that's arguable
4090 2011-05-16 23:22:41 <directhex> multiHYP: 1 BTC is worth about 8 USD, so no, BTC is worth more
4091 2011-05-16 23:22:58 <multiHYP> wow
4092 2011-05-16 23:23:06 <andrew12> heh
4093 2011-05-16 23:23:09 <multiHYP> so i have over 30000 blocks atm
4094 2011-05-16 23:23:14 <directhex> blocks or btc?
4095 2011-05-16 23:23:20 <andrew12> no, you downloaded over 30000 blocks
4096 2011-05-16 23:23:23 <sipa> multiHYP: wait till you have 124459
4097 2011-05-16 23:23:27 <multiHYP> blocks as in status bar of bitcoin software
4098 2011-05-16 23:23:46 <multiHYP> what is the blocks relation to bitcoins?
4099 2011-05-16 23:23:48 <directhex> multiHYP: that's the bitcoin software downloading the status of every block mined so far. about 125k blocks
4100 2011-05-16 23:23:56 <sipa> multiHYP: read the introduction on bitcoin.it
4101 2011-05-16 23:23:57 <multiHYP> 124459 blocks = 1 bitcoin
4102 2011-05-16 23:23:57 <horb> ArtForz is cool
4103 2011-05-16 23:24:00 Cusipzzz has joined
4104 2011-05-16 23:24:03 <sipa> multiHYP: not at all
4105 2011-05-16 23:24:04 <andrew12> multiHYP: read https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Introduction
4106 2011-05-16 23:24:06 <ArtForz> horb: ArtForz is drunk
4107 2011-05-16 23:24:08 <directhex> multiHYP: a block is worth a bunch of coins.
4108 2011-05-16 23:24:13 <sipa> no it is not
4109 2011-05-16 23:24:20 <sipa> a block is an ordered list of transactions
4110 2011-05-16 23:24:23 <andrew12> mainly the section called "Creation of coins"
4111 2011-05-16 23:24:25 <directhex> fine, that too
4112 2011-05-16 23:24:27 <ArtForz> sipa: feeeling argumentative, are we?
4113 2011-05-16 23:24:32 <ArtForz> yes, is is!
4114 2011-05-16 23:24:36 <sipa> ArtForz: yes, i'm getting too tired
4115 2011-05-16 23:24:44 <andrew12> A block is an order list of blocks. What.
4116 2011-05-16 23:24:46 <ArtForz> sipa: awww :/
4117 2011-05-16 23:25:18 <multiHYP> how can i remove a bitcoin address?
4118 2011-05-16 23:25:22 <andrew12> you don't
4119 2011-05-16 23:25:25 mightybyte has joined
4120 2011-05-16 23:25:28 <ArtForz> andrew12: recursion, infinite: see recursion, infinite
4121 2011-05-16 23:25:30 <directhex> not everyone needs to know things in intimate detail from day 1.
4122 2011-05-16 23:25:33 <multiHYP> i have two now, but i don't need 2
4123 2011-05-16 23:25:51 <directhex> multiHYP: the use of multiple addresses is a way to ensure anonymity
4124 2011-05-16 23:25:52 <andrew12> multiHYP: you actually have more than that, the client just doesn't show them
4125 2011-05-16 23:26:02 <multiHYP> seems interesting, first thought through project since bittorrent!
4126 2011-05-16 23:26:09 <andrew12> multiHYP: an address is generated/used whenever you send some coins
4127 2011-05-16 23:26:16 DoomDumas has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4128 2011-05-16 23:26:28 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
4129 2011-05-16 23:26:33 <andrew12> and whenever you generate a block (unless you do pooled mining)
4130 2011-05-16 23:26:40 <multiHYP> no i have 2 addresses under the Receiving tab!
4131 2011-05-16 23:26:59 <andrew12> multiHYP: yes. I have like 50.
4132 2011-05-16 23:27:58 * sipa haz moar
4133 2011-05-16 23:28:01 <multiHYP> this software is tearing off some parts of the computer though, such as my harddrive!
4134 2011-05-16 23:28:03 <andrew12> lol
4135 2011-05-16 23:28:10 <andrew12> multiHYP: that'll stop soon enough
4136 2011-05-16 23:28:15 <sipa> multiHYP: don't worry, that's just the initial download
4137 2011-05-16 23:28:15 Juffo-Wup has joined
4138 2011-05-16 23:28:18 <andrew12> multiHYP: once the block chain finishes downloading
4139 2011-05-16 23:28:24 <multiHYP> yes, when the entire drive is overwritten at least one!
4140 2011-05-16 23:28:32 <andrew12> no
4141 2011-05-16 23:28:37 <directhex> it's about 160 meg.
4142 2011-05-16 23:28:38 <andrew12> block chain isn't more than 1g
4143 2011-05-16 23:28:43 <sipa> in soviet russie, harddrives overwrite you
4144 2011-05-16 23:28:49 <andrew12> sipa++
4145 2011-05-16 23:28:49 <multiHYP> :D
4146 2011-05-16 23:28:52 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4147 2011-05-16 23:29:06 <WakiMiko> bitcoin is overwriting all of your harddrive with zeros to ensure your privacy
4148 2011-05-16 23:29:07 <multiHYP> man they are lucky enough to have broadband access
4149 2011-05-16 23:29:26 <andrew12> wut
4150 2011-05-16 23:29:26 <multiHYP> what about the poor people in the 3rd world countries in africa and middle east...
4151 2011-05-16 23:29:35 <ArtForz> fuck poor people
4152 2011-05-16 23:29:42 <andrew12> hahaha
4153 2011-05-16 23:30:18 <ArtForz> I started with fucking -$20k from my dad who was an alcoholic
4154 2011-05-16 23:30:29 inductor_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4155 2011-05-16 23:30:44 <ArtForz> the path to success is... to work your ass raw
4156 2011-05-16 23:31:26 <ArtForz> whoever said 10% inspiration, 90% perspiration: yep
4157 2011-05-16 23:31:41 <andrew12> lol
4158 2011-05-16 23:32:01 <sipa> edison
4159 2011-05-16 23:32:13 <ArtForz> aka the bastard who fucked tesla
4160 2011-05-16 23:32:21 <sipa> indeed
4161 2011-05-16 23:32:23 inductor has joined
4162 2011-05-16 23:32:23 <multiHYP> :D
4163 2011-05-16 23:32:28 <ArtForz> once again, sleazy bastard > good engineer
4164 2011-05-16 23:32:31 <multiHYP> ArtForz: you american?
4165 2011-05-16 23:32:36 <ArtForz> nope, german
4166 2011-05-16 23:32:42 <multiHYP> oh yeah
4167 2011-05-16 23:32:46 <ArtForz> though my granddad was a GI
4168 2011-05-16 23:32:53 <multiHYP> cool
4169 2011-05-16 23:32:56 <ArtForz> helped kill the fucking nazi bastards
4170 2011-05-16 23:33:00 <andrew12> lol
4171 2011-05-16 23:33:03 <multiHYP> :D
4172 2011-05-16 23:33:10 <ArtForz> and the fucking sheep that didnt stand up against em
4173 2011-05-16 23:33:29 <ArtForz> too bad their grandkids now run the place
4174 2011-05-16 23:33:37 MBS is now known as lupin_III
4175 2011-05-16 23:33:38 <multiHYP> so the trick is to have multiple addresses to stay anonym?
4176 2011-05-16 23:33:47 lupin_III is now known as MBS
4177 2011-05-16 23:33:47 <sipa> exactly
4178 2011-05-16 23:34:20 <andrew12> multiHYP: yeah, the best way to do it would be to use a different address for each transaction
4179 2011-05-16 23:34:30 <multiHYP> if i want to pay some bitcoin into my online mybitcoin account, does it add a fee?
4180 2011-05-16 23:34:46 <andrew12> it shouldn't
4181 2011-05-16 23:34:53 * andrew12 wouldn't know
4182 2011-05-16 23:35:50 <sipa> it may
4183 2011-05-16 23:36:12 <sipa> it depends on how small the payment is, and how old the coins you are trying to send are (older coins = better)
4184 2011-05-16 23:36:54 * purplezky scratches head and wonders since when old coins incur transaction fees ?
4185 2011-05-16 23:37:12 <andrew12> wow... am i really the 24th most active person here? http://veritas.maximilianeum.ch/bitcoin/irc/
4186 2011-05-16 23:37:26 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
4187 2011-05-16 23:37:36 * andrew12 claps to himself
4188 2011-05-16 23:37:38 <plato_> ArtForz: do you have plans for commercializing your ASIC's
4189 2011-05-16 23:37:43 <plato_> ArtForz: is anyone working with you on them
4190 2011-05-16 23:37:49 <ArtForz> plato_: yes, but nothing useful yet
4191 2011-05-16 23:38:22 <ArtForz> dropping $/Mh to something that actually would sell is *hard*
4192 2011-05-16 23:38:34 <plato_> ArtForz: i'm an EE, I like embedded systems/chip manufacturing/debugging
4193 2011-05-16 23:38:34 <purplezky> transaction fees are added when the transacted amount is below 0.01 BTC or the transaction size is bigger than 512 bytes, it got nothing to do with coin age
4194 2011-05-16 23:38:37 <ArtForz> even with the x10 space and power efficiey advantage
4195 2011-05-16 23:38:41 <plato_> ArtForz: wanna hire me :)
4196 2011-05-16 23:38:59 <ArtForz> plato_: the EE part is already done
4197 2011-05-16 23:39:20 <plato_> what's stopping me from buying 10k chips and setting up a big hash farm
4198 2011-05-16 23:39:20 <ArtForz> the problem is the business side (wow, what a new and unique problem...)
4199 2011-05-16 23:39:24 <plato_> ouch
4200 2011-05-16 23:39:26 <plato_> can't help there
4201 2011-05-16 23:39:41 <ArtForz> I have a good design, but the numbers don't pan out
4202 2011-05-16 23:39:52 eps1 has joined
4203 2011-05-16 23:40:10 <plato_> what parts of the fab process have you done / can you do / can you outsource
4204 2011-05-16 23:40:15 <ArtForz> unless I sell like a a shitload, and there true ASIC takes my strictured ASIC, assrapes them and laughs
4205 2011-05-16 23:40:48 <directhex> there's something i learnt in my years doing HPC
4206 2011-05-16 23:41:02 <plato_> just googled structured asics - cool tech
4207 2011-05-16 23:41:02 <andrew12> strictured? :P
4208 2011-05-16 23:41:02 <ArtForz> but finding investors willing to risk a few $M on something like BTC... good luck
4209 2011-05-16 23:41:11 <multiHYP> so for safe measures i can every once in a while transfer my local bitcoins to the mybitcoin website?
4210 2011-05-16 23:41:20 <directhex> and that was this: you can't compete with GPU volume. don't bother trying. just make GPUs work for you
4211 2011-05-16 23:41:29 <plato_> multiHYP: for safekeeping? or money laundering?
4212 2011-05-16 23:41:38 <multiHYP> safekeeping
4213 2011-05-16 23:41:46 <plato_> sure, if you trust mybitcoin.com
4214 2011-05-16 23:41:50 <multiHYP> how could that be interpreted as money laundry?
4215 2011-05-16 23:42:06 <directhex> i've seen custom coprocessor cards appear and sink, i've heard about the "year of the fpga" for 6 years running without anything to show for it. the only real splash in the market without "xeon" written on it was nvidia tesla
4216 2011-05-16 23:42:09 DoomDumas has joined
4217 2011-05-16 23:42:15 <sipa> purplezky: young & small coins get a fee, as a measure to prevent spam caused by sending coins back and fro
4218 2011-05-16 23:42:19 <sipa> *to and fro?
4219 2011-05-16 23:42:28 <ArtForz> directhex: yep :/
4220 2011-05-16 23:42:29 <plato_> multiHYP: if I wanted to launder coins I'd send them in and out of mybitcoin, to add some transactions into the coins' chains to make them harder to trace
4221 2011-05-16 23:42:54 <plato_> ArtForz: directhex: none of those literally made money
4222 2011-05-16 23:42:57 <ArtForz> tyring to compete against massive volume produced ASICs = you lose. better luck next time.
4223 2011-05-16 23:43:01 <multiHYP> oh, not at all, i just want to keep them all in a single wallet accessible from anywhere...
4224 2011-05-16 23:43:06 <multiHYP> thats all :)
4225 2011-05-16 23:43:08 <luke-jr> horb: do I know you?
4226 2011-05-16 23:43:15 <plato_> multiHYP: then yes I recommend mybitcoin
4227 2011-05-16 23:43:36 <plato_> multiHYP: what I do is keep a savings wallet encrypted offline and my spending coins in mybitcoin
4228 2011-05-16 23:43:44 <directhex> plato_: nobody will invest the millions and millions needed to toss out an ASIC that can compete with a £250 radeon - and the BTC market is all low-volume speculation anyway
4229 2011-05-16 23:43:51 <plato_> directhex: so far
4230 2011-05-16 23:43:56 <multiHYP> oh like a savings account plato_ ?
4231 2011-05-16 23:43:59 <ArtForz> directhex: sad, but atm, agreed :/
4232 2011-05-16 23:44:03 mightybyte has left ()
4233 2011-05-16 23:44:18 <plato_> multiHYP: more like checking - in case mybitcoin gets compromised somehow, i don't lose the coins in my savings wallet
4234 2011-05-16 23:44:20 <multiHYP> nice i like that too
4235 2011-05-16 23:44:24 <directhex> ArtForz: i'm just going by professional experience. we spent a few thousands on clearspeed cards.
4236 2011-05-16 23:44:33 <ArtForz> directhex: ow.
4237 2011-05-16 23:44:46 <plato_> multiHYP: just keep in mind that there will be a delay after moving coins around before you can spend them
4238 2011-05-16 23:44:47 <ArtForz> yeah, you go against the big guys. you lose.
4239 2011-05-16 23:44:48 <directhex> £4000 each, and only fit into a few 2U systems
4240 2011-05-16 23:45:03 <multiHYP> how long of a delay?
4241 2011-05-16 23:45:11 <andrew12> xkcd's black hole disappeared: http://xkcd.com/bitcoin/
4242 2011-05-16 23:45:25 <plato_> i'm not sure what the wait time is before you can spend unconfirmed coins
4243 2011-05-16 23:45:27 <plato_> 6 blocks?
4244 2011-05-16 23:45:45 <sipa> 1 block
4245 2011-05-16 23:45:50 <plato_> ^
4246 2011-05-16 23:45:52 <plato_> thanks
4247 2011-05-16 23:45:56 <sipa> but the client will try to avoid coins that are less than 6 blocks old
4248 2011-05-16 23:46:07 <sipa> for self-sent coins, the limit is 0, even
4249 2011-05-16 23:46:16 Demandrel has joined
4250 2011-05-16 23:46:29 <multiHYP> whats the generating coins for?
4251 2011-05-16 23:46:46 <Demandrel> Hello
4252 2011-05-16 23:46:49 <multiHYP> turning blocks into coins? is that reversible, once or automatically on the fly?
4253 2011-05-16 23:46:57 <sipa> multiHYP: blocks are not coins
4254 2011-05-16 23:47:02 <Demandrel> Do people read the wiki much?
4255 2011-05-16 23:47:03 <multiHYP> i know
4256 2011-05-16 23:47:14 <sipa> blocks are lists of transactions, and creating them is a vote for their legitimacy
4257 2011-05-16 23:47:20 <WakiMiko> bitcoin totally ripped of super mario
4258 2011-05-16 23:47:22 <WakiMiko> blocks
4259 2011-05-16 23:47:22 <sipa> this carries a reward of 50 BTC
4260 2011-05-16 23:47:22 <WakiMiko> coins
4261 2011-05-16 23:47:23 <multiHYP> the software has not a help system, that is a bit difficult to understand
4262 2011-05-16 23:47:25 <WakiMiko> its all there
4263 2011-05-16 23:47:43 <directhex> WakiMiko: quick, invent bitring, which has "monitors" containing 10 rings each.
4264 2011-05-16 23:47:55 <sipa> the reward will eventuall diminish, as there are only 21M coins that will ever be brought into existance
4265 2011-05-16 23:48:11 <Demandrel> The limited number of coins will result in the demise of Bitcoin, sadly
4266 2011-05-16 23:48:22 <sipa> maybe, maybe not
4267 2011-05-16 23:48:24 <WakiMiko> hehe
4268 2011-05-16 23:48:28 <WakiMiko> never got into sonic though
4269 2011-05-16 23:48:37 <Demandrel> Without modifications, it will
4270 2011-05-16 23:48:42 <noagendamarket> the unlimited number of usd will sadly result in its demise
4271 2011-05-16 23:48:48 <noagendamarket> :)
4272 2011-05-16 23:48:51 <Demandrel> Heh
4273 2011-05-16 23:49:07 <Demandrel> A currency with a fixed supply will experience deflation to the extent more goods and services are transacted through the currency
4274 2011-05-16 23:49:13 <Demandrel> Inflation rewards the original holders of the currency
4275 2011-05-16 23:49:16 <noagendamarket> if you break a usd into 8 pieces its worthless...
4276 2011-05-16 23:49:17 <Demandrel> *deflation
4277 2011-05-16 23:49:23 <plato_> multiHYP: see http://bitcoin.it/Man_page
4278 2011-05-16 23:49:29 <ArtForz> noagendamarket: agreed
4279 2011-05-16 23:49:51 <sipa> Demandrel: it rewards the original holders of the currency who have kept their money, even though its value increased
4280 2011-05-16 23:49:52 <multiHYP> is it safe to assume that bitcoin software uses a lot of upload bandwidth or slow my connection down?
4281 2011-05-16 23:49:52 <andrew12> plato_: gotta have /wiki/ in the url: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Man_page
4282 2011-05-16 23:49:54 <plato_> multiHYP: * http://bitcoin.it/wiki/Man_page
4283 2011-05-16 23:49:57 <ArtForz> also, some "expert" just inflating a currency "because" = past
4284 2011-05-16 23:50:02 <sipa> Demandrel: but you are right
4285 2011-05-16 23:50:09 <ArtForz> which is why bitcoin *will* change things
4286 2011-05-16 23:50:14 <sipa> multiHYP: hardly
4287 2011-05-16 23:50:25 <ArtForz> mabye not bitcoin itself, but the idea is now "out there"
4288 2011-05-16 23:50:37 <Demandrel> Sipa:  The problem is that people will not want to participate to the extent there is price instaibility and constant deflation
4289 2011-05-16 23:50:44 <ArtForz> and about as easy to stop as p2p and the internet itself
4290 2011-05-16 23:50:52 <Demandrel> Because there was a reward to the original holders that can be avoided through an alternative electronic currency
4291 2011-05-16 23:50:57 <sipa> price instability is inevitable if you want a non-controlled currency
4292 2011-05-16 23:51:00 <Demandrel> Bitcoin needs to scale to the SIZE of the bitcoin economy
4293 2011-05-16 23:51:06 <Demandrel> No, it is not inevitable
4294 2011-05-16 23:51:16 <Demandrel> The number of coins merely needs to scale to the size of the economy itself
4295 2011-05-16 23:51:26 <ArtForz> nope
4296 2011-05-16 23:51:26 <sipa> that's not instability
4297 2011-05-16 23:51:33 <sipa> that will solve deflation though
4298 2011-05-16 23:51:35 <ne0futur> (01:45) < Demandrel> Bitcoin needs to scale to the SIZE of the bitcoin economy
4299 2011-05-16 23:51:52 <ne0futur> I agree with this , price is going up for bad reasons
4300 2011-05-16 23:51:53 <Demandrel> Otherwise when the bitcoin economy grows from USD50m to USD300m then there will need to be massive deflation
4301 2011-05-16 23:52:04 <ne0futur> but the btc economy is still small
4302 2011-05-16 23:52:17 <sipa> but instability is inherent to the fact that it is a small economy, without backing
4303 2011-05-16 23:52:27 <Demandrel> No, not really
4304 2011-05-16 23:52:38 <Demandrel> To the extent the amount of currency grew with the amount of the economy it would not be instable
4305 2011-05-16 23:52:42 davex__ has joined
4306 2011-05-16 23:52:53 <Demandrel> *unstable
4307 2011-05-16 23:52:56 <sipa> it would be - you'd still have massive speculation
4308 2011-05-16 23:52:58 <noagendamarket> youre free to create inflatacoins
4309 2011-05-16 23:53:05 <comboy> sorry for OT, does anyone here maybe know for sure if namecoins are limited in amoun same as bitcoins?
4310 2011-05-16 23:53:08 <sipa> causing instability
4311 2011-05-16 23:53:15 <Demandrel> No
4312 2011-05-16 23:53:18 <sipa> at least initially
4313 2011-05-16 23:53:18 <Demandrel> There would be no reason to speculate
4314 2011-05-16 23:53:22 <Demandrel> Maybe initially
4315 2011-05-16 23:53:26 <Demandrel> But things would settle down quickly
4316 2011-05-16 23:53:35 <sipa> who knows :)
4317 2011-05-16 23:53:38 <Demandrel> Because people would know the amount of currency would scale with the economy
4318 2011-05-16 23:53:39 <sipa> you're free to try it
4319 2011-05-16 23:53:41 <Demandrel> Haha
4320 2011-05-16 23:53:44 <Demandrel> I'm not saying I want to compete
4321 2011-05-16 23:53:58 <Demandrel> I'm saying that there is a flaw that needs to be dealt with
4322 2011-05-16 23:54:01 <noagendamarket> but why try to change bitcoin itself rather than create a fork and push shit uphill with a fork
4323 2011-05-16 23:54:05 <Demandrel> And if it's not dealt with then someone else will supplant the market
4324 2011-05-16 23:54:16 <sipa> i'm quite sure your flaw is a design choice
4325 2011-05-16 23:54:25 <comboy> we could write bot for this, I think few regexps would do to discuss "deflation"
4326 2011-05-16 23:54:26 <sipa> that doesn't mean you are wrong
4327 2011-05-16 23:54:29 <Demandrel> It constrains the future size of the market
4328 2011-05-16 23:54:41 <sipa> but people surely have thought about it
4329 2011-05-16 23:54:48 eamon has joined
4330 2011-05-16 23:54:54 <Demandrel> Well, I read the deflationary spiral article on the wiki and it did not do a good job of dealing with the issue
4331 2011-05-16 23:55:01 * andrew12 puts @weekly bitcoind backupwallet /home/andrew/Dropbox/bitcoin/wallet/backup-`date +%F`.dat
4332 2011-05-16 23:55:05 <eamon> What the fuck does bitcoin.exe do when it's open? My hard drives were making the most godforsaken noises and it was doing all the writing.
4333 2011-05-16 23:55:05 Aahzmundus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4334 2011-05-16 23:55:07 <andrew12> -- in his crontab
4335 2011-05-16 23:55:14 * sipa -> bed
4336 2011-05-16 23:55:25 <directhex> eamon: finished the initial block chain download yet?
4337 2011-05-16 23:55:31 <ArtForz> eamon: it's eating your ancestors' souls.
4338 2011-05-16 23:55:35 <andrew12> eamon: it's downloading the block chain. it takes a while. it will chill out when that's done.
4339 2011-05-16 23:55:44 <Demandrel> So I added some additional information to the wiki on what I see as the issue
4340 2011-05-16 23:55:46 <directhex> i.e. does the status bar on the bitcoin gui say 125000ish yet?
4341 2011-05-16 23:55:47 subpar has joined
4342 2011-05-16 23:55:53 <andrew12> ;;bc,blocks
4343 2011-05-16 23:55:54 <gribble> 124463
4344 2011-05-16 23:55:55 <multiHYP> ;;bc;blocks
4345 2011-05-16 23:55:55 <gribble> Error: "bc;blocks" is not a valid command.
4346 2011-05-16 23:56:00 <eamon> how often does this happen? I've had bitcoin for a while
4347 2011-05-16 23:56:05 <multiHYP> what is this number?
4348 2011-05-16 23:56:13 <andrew12> the number of blocks in the block chain
4349 2011-05-16 23:56:14 <multiHYP> ;;bc,
4350 2011-05-16 23:56:14 <gribble> I do not know about 'bc,', but I do know about these similar topics: 'bbe'
4351 2011-05-16 23:56:24 <multiHYP> ;;bc,bbe
4352 2011-05-16 23:56:24 <gribble> I do not know about 'bc,bbe', but I do know about these similar topics: 'bbe'
4353 2011-05-16 23:56:27 <andrew12> ;;apropos bc
4354 2011-05-16 23:56:27 <gribble> Alias bc,24hprc, Alias bc,avgprc, Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,btcguild, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,deepbit, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,eligius, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,fx, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,googlerate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,interval, Alias bc,lukepool, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias bc,mtgoxask, (1 more message)
4355 2011-05-16 23:56:28 <multiHYP> ;;bc,blocks
4356 2011-05-16 23:56:28 <gribble> 124463
4357 2011-05-16 23:56:38 <eamon> ;;bbe
4358 2011-05-16 23:56:39 <gribble> http://blockexplorer.com
4359 2011-05-16 23:56:40 <directhex> eamon: once, up to the current number of blocks. after that it barely touches your disk.
4360 2011-05-16 23:56:57 <eamon> directhex: can it take weeks?
4361 2011-05-16 23:57:32 <eamon> I've had bitcoin a while now. It goes crazy on the hard drive every now and then
4362 2011-05-16 23:57:36 <directhex> eamon: if your net connection sucks. how many blocks does the status bar say it has?
4363 2011-05-16 23:57:46 kelvie_ has joined
4364 2011-05-16 23:57:55 <eamon> I had to close it c ause I really don't like doing that to my hard drive
4365 2011-05-16 23:58:12 kelvie_ has left ()
4366 2011-05-16 23:58:45 <eamon> 124460Blocks
4367 2011-05-16 23:58:53 Saab- has joined
4368 2011-05-16 23:59:07 <eamon> 124463blocks and my hdd is doin the hula again
4369 2011-05-16 23:59:37 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
4370 2011-05-16 23:59:38 <gribble> 124463
4371 2011-05-16 23:59:46 <sipa> strange