1 2011-05-18 00:00:14 <BlueMatt> but I agree in principal
2 2011-05-18 00:00:16 <jgarzik> plato_: yes, and that cannot be changed without satoshi
3 2011-05-18 00:00:18 <gjs278> shipping linux binaries takes no effort and saves at least one guy the trouble
4 2011-05-18 00:00:33 <plato_> jgarzik: who owns hosting
5 2011-05-18 00:00:37 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I was under the impression the keys to the domain were turned over in the past couple days
6 2011-05-18 00:00:38 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it doesn't matter, the binaries still have problems on many OS's, including older versions of the same OS they're built on
7 2011-05-18 00:00:46 <jgarzik> plato_: hosting... or domain name?
8 2011-05-18 00:00:51 <plato_> both
9 2011-05-18 00:00:52 <gjs278> sourceforge
10 2011-05-18 00:00:52 <BlueMatt> hence the ability to move forums to second domain name, as sirius now has the dns
11 2011-05-18 00:01:08 <jgarzik> plato_: sirius handles hosting. DNS is satoshi... thus, frozen :(
12 2011-05-18 00:01:19 <plato_> interesting
13 2011-05-18 00:01:20 <BlueMatt> and can now add/change mx record so sirius can get us a real cert
14 2011-05-18 00:01:25 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yay!
15 2011-05-18 00:01:31 <jgarzik> plato_: looks like BlueMatt has more recent info
16 2011-05-18 00:01:41 aphelion27 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
17 2011-05-18 00:01:56 <plato_> nice
18 2011-05-18 00:02:24 <BlueMatt> plato_: sirius mentioned yesterday he would look into getting a cert today, but I suppose with all the work he put into moving the site today, that didnt happen...Id assume its coming fairly soon though
19 2011-05-18 00:03:06 <plato_> i'm new to development on linux, i'm on arch and learning real linux now, I haven't coded C++ in a couple years but I want to pick it back up
20 2011-05-18 00:03:12 <plato_> what're some good pieces of code to pick through
21 2011-05-18 00:03:26 <BlueMatt> probably not bitcoin to begin with ;)
22 2011-05-18 00:03:30 <plato_> ha
23 2011-05-18 00:04:17 <plato_> is/when will there be a v4.0
24 2011-05-18 00:04:22 <gjs278> I had little knowledge of c++ when I wrote the trivial add pid file crap
25 2011-05-18 00:04:38 <gjs278> google got me through
26 2011-05-18 00:04:41 <BlueMatt> plato_: as soon as wallet priv-key encryption gets merged and autotools probably
27 2011-05-18 00:04:41 <plato_> yeah
28 2011-05-18 00:04:45 <plato_> docs ftw
29 2011-05-18 00:04:56 <BlueMatt> I wrote wallet private key encryption with google + sipa
30 2011-05-18 00:04:59 <plato_> encryption by default
31 2011-05-18 00:05:01 <plato_> right
32 2011-05-18 00:05:12 * BlueMatt only knows anything about C++ because of Bitcoin :)
33 2011-05-18 00:06:38 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Quit: bitcoinbulletin)
34 2011-05-18 00:06:40 <gjs278> I only know some c because of gaim
35 2011-05-18 00:06:52 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: wish it was c :(
36 2011-05-18 00:07:05 <jlewis> BlueMatt: i had a comment about your pull request actually
37 2011-05-18 00:07:17 <BlueMatt> wallet privkey crypto one?
38 2011-05-18 00:07:26 <jlewis> yeah
39 2011-05-18 00:07:31 <BlueMatt> hit me
40 2011-05-18 00:07:45 <BlueMatt> wait which one, the old one or the one I uploaded 10 minutes ago?
41 2011-05-18 00:08:15 <jlewis> the one you just uploaded - its just a minor comment - you don't need to use protected membership in classes that don't get inherited from
42 2011-05-18 00:08:23 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
43 2011-05-18 00:09:06 <BlueMatt> ah, ok I was a bit fuzzy there, but I just guessed
44 2011-05-18 00:09:20 plato_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
45 2011-05-18 00:09:22 <jgarzik> 0.4 not 4.0 :)
46 2011-05-18 00:09:22 <jlewis> what was your reasoning?
47 2011-05-18 00:09:26 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
48 2011-05-18 00:09:28 <BlueMatt> however, can a loaded dll inherit crypter and thus gain access to its stuff?
49 2011-05-18 00:09:33 <jgarzik> jlewis: thanks for updating the pull
50 2011-05-18 00:09:57 <BlueMatt> ie meterpreter attacker hooks into bitcoin and just sits watching crypter
51 2011-05-18 00:09:58 theorbtwo has joined
52 2011-05-18 00:10:04 <jlewis> BlueMatt: the protected members, yes :)
53 2011-05-18 00:10:10 <BlueMatt> then again...I suppose if you can do that there is way more nasty stuff you can do so...
54 2011-05-18 00:10:28 <jlewis> you probably meant to make those members private
55 2011-05-18 00:10:29 <BlueMatt> well Ill make it private anyway
56 2011-05-18 00:10:31 <diki> jgarzik, i am more or less there
57 2011-05-18 00:10:42 <diki> but pushpool keeps saying HTTP could not connect to host
58 2011-05-18 00:10:44 <diki> any ideas?
59 2011-05-18 00:10:50 <jlewis> jgarzik: np
60 2011-05-18 00:11:07 <BlueMatt> jlewis: thanks, committed, rebased, pushed
61 2011-05-18 00:12:51 <diki> wait..so pushpool needs to connect to bitcoind?
62 2011-05-18 00:12:57 <disq> jgarzik: fyi, pushpool authorizes users twice requests. once in http_handle_req() and once in __http_srv_event()
63 2011-05-18 00:12:58 <diki> now that, i did not know
64 2011-05-18 00:12:59 * luke-jr facepalms
65 2011-05-18 00:13:09 <disq> jgarzik: erm, s/requests//
66 2011-05-18 00:13:13 <diki> it feels i am there
67 2011-05-18 00:15:32 <disq> jgarzik: only way to get added to the LP list is to pass the auth in __http_srv_event, and only way to get to http_handle_req is thru LP or __http_srv_event
68 2011-05-18 00:16:27 bitcoinbulletin has joined
69 2011-05-18 00:16:32 <BlueMatt> gn all, I expect some good comments on wallet priv-key encryption in the morning ;P
70 2011-05-18 00:16:46 <disq> gn :)
71 2011-05-18 00:16:50 <jlewis> BlueMatt: another comment - crypter.cpp:71: why is the vchCipherText not a reference?
72 2011-05-18 00:17:22 <BlueMatt> guess it doesnt really matter there
73 2011-05-18 00:17:36 <jlewis> it should, right? you're passing a non-POD type by value
74 2011-05-18 00:18:00 brianmcqueen has left ()
75 2011-05-18 00:18:51 x6763 has joined
76 2011-05-18 00:19:12 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
77 2011-05-18 00:19:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124721 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 270 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 2 hours, 55 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 235253.19322347
78 2011-05-18 00:19:29 <JFK911> ;;bc.mtgox
79 2011-05-18 00:19:30 <gribble> Error: "bc.mtgox" is not a valid command.
80 2011-05-18 00:19:34 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
81 2011-05-18 00:19:35 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.389,"low":6.9799,"vol":34957,"buy":7.1901,"sell":7.2998,"last":7.201}}
82 2011-05-18 00:19:43 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: build in morning? :)
83 2011-05-18 00:19:50 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: waiting on your for -rc release
84 2011-05-18 00:19:53 <jgarzik> *you
85 2011-05-18 00:19:59 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea, sorry got distracted
86 2011-05-18 00:20:05 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: thanks
87 2011-05-18 00:20:19 <jlewis> BlueMatt: same with CheckKeyOnPrivKey - that iterator should be a reference. that iterator will have to be copied every time that function is called
88 2011-05-18 00:20:24 <BlueMatt> with the whole -mthreads crap...plus now my gitian isnt building right so Ive got to do a bit of digging...
89 2011-05-18 00:20:27 <BlueMatt> Ill build in the morning
90 2011-05-18 00:20:40 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: great. I'll do the release when I get up, then.
91 2011-05-18 00:20:51 * BlueMatt is quickly googling POD...
92 2011-05-18 00:20:54 <jlewis> plain old data
93 2011-05-18 00:20:58 <jlewis> like int, bool, char
94 2011-05-18 00:20:58 ezl has joined
95 2011-05-18 00:21:04 dvide_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
96 2011-05-18 00:21:08 <BlueMatt> yes, thing with C equivalent
97 2011-05-18 00:21:11 plato_ has joined
98 2011-05-18 00:21:15 <BlueMatt> but what is wrong with passing it by value?
99 2011-05-18 00:21:20 <BlueMatt> I suppose just that it has to be copied?
100 2011-05-18 00:21:26 dvide has joined
101 2011-05-18 00:21:26 <jlewis> yeah exactly
102 2011-05-18 00:21:46 <jlewis> which is fine for ints - but not for vectors or iterators or anything that's a class
103 2011-05-18 00:21:55 <jlewis> because the whole object will have to be copied at function call time
104 2011-05-18 00:22:07 <jlewis> which means a constructor call, and then a destructor call later
105 2011-05-18 00:22:15 <jlewis> best to just avoid all that and pass your complex types as references
106 2011-05-18 00:22:23 <jlewis> sorry if i'm telling you stuff you already know
107 2011-05-18 00:22:33 <BlueMatt> ah, ok well let me see, the reason its not reference in Decrypt is that I call .size() and you cant do that on const ... and I prefer to mark my constants...but then again thats more for readability while coding
108 2011-05-18 00:22:40 <BlueMatt> alright, let me go change that
109 2011-05-18 00:22:48 <jlewis> references don't have to be const
110 2011-05-18 00:23:21 <BlueMatt> no, doesnt have to be Im just saying its more readable when I go looking through my code
111 2011-05-18 00:23:26 <jlewis> nod.
112 2011-05-18 00:23:29 <BlueMatt> I can see what is and isnt changed in my methods
113 2011-05-18 00:24:43 <BlueMatt> thanks, commited, rebased, pushed
114 2011-05-18 00:25:19 <jlewis> :) thanks
115 2011-05-18 00:25:34 <BlueMatt> alright, the rest'll have to go to the pull request/forum. Im off
116 2011-05-18 00:25:39 <jlewis> night!
117 2011-05-18 00:29:40 Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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121 2011-05-18 00:39:47 traviscj has joined
122 2011-05-18 00:40:08 <traviscj> did the bitcoin faucet finally go the way of the dinosaur?
123 2011-05-18 00:40:39 <traviscj> ahh, nevermind! there it is
124 2011-05-18 00:45:33 <diki> damn
125 2011-05-18 00:45:39 <diki> stupid iptables.h file....
126 2011-05-18 00:47:47 sacarlson has joined
127 2011-05-18 00:48:51 Moonies has joined
128 2011-05-18 00:51:09 <plato_> how do you guys manage wallet encryption
129 2011-05-18 00:51:23 <plato_> gpg? symmetric aes-256?
130 2011-05-18 00:51:55 <lulzplzkthx> i'm a nub and don't.
131 2011-05-18 00:52:02 <afed> how easy is it to set up my own testnet?
132 2011-05-18 00:52:09 <lulzplzkthx> i'm not afraid of getting viruses, as i use common sense, and don't let others touch my lappy
133 2011-05-18 00:52:21 genjix has joined
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135 2011-05-18 00:54:57 <sacarlson> sipa: any progress on the function CAddress addrIRC("irc.surething.biz:6667", 0, true); ?
136 2011-05-18 00:58:58 <sacarlson> plato_: I just use luks partition encryption something like this https://sites.google.com/site/remotekeyencrypt/files/remote_key_encrypt.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1
137 2011-05-18 00:59:00 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
138 2011-05-18 00:59:58 <Mookman288> Besides running better equipment, is there any way to optimize a mining (the miner? the pool?) for stale shares?
139 2011-05-18 01:00:10 <Mookman288> a mining instance*
140 2011-05-18 01:00:41 <diki> can someone tell me why this stupid netfilter/iptables although installed is declared missing in miniupn whatever it was
141 2011-05-18 01:01:16 toffoo has quit ()
142 2011-05-18 01:01:53 DukeOfURL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
143 2011-05-18 01:02:52 marlowe has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
144 2011-05-18 01:05:14 <forrestv> Mookman288, long polling
145 2011-05-18 01:06:22 <diki> it's taking more time to compile bitcoind that a boat ride for three
146 2011-05-18 01:06:41 <phantomcircuit> diki, how much memory do you have?
147 2011-05-18 01:06:55 <diki> depends on what you mean
148 2011-05-18 01:07:05 <diki> But you probably misunderstood
149 2011-05-18 01:07:11 toffoo has joined
150 2011-05-18 01:07:19 <diki> bitcoind requires X library, which in return requires X library
151 2011-05-18 01:07:20 <Mookman288> forrestv: I see that the pool I'm using has that feature, is that it? I still seem to be producing a high number of stale shares (obviously because my equipment is not professional by any means.)
152 2011-05-18 01:07:23 <phantomcircuit> diki, no i certainly didn't ;)
153 2011-05-18 01:07:50 cenuij has joined
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155 2011-05-18 01:07:50 cenuij has joined
156 2011-05-18 01:08:03 <phantomcircuit> diki, oh you mean it's taking forever to install the dependencies?
157 2011-05-18 01:08:16 <forrestv> Mookman288, it doesn't need to be 'professional'
158 2011-05-18 01:08:38 <diki> i mean that X dependency can't install
159 2011-05-18 01:08:46 <diki> cause it says a header file is missing, which is not
160 2011-05-18 01:08:55 <phantomcircuit> diki, bitcoind doesn't depend on X at all
161 2011-05-18 01:08:56 <Mookman288> forrestv: I use the term loosely in an attempt to mean that it is capable of producing a competitive and proactive profit.
162 2011-05-18 01:08:57 TYPE1000 has joined
163 2011-05-18 01:09:09 <TYPE1000> HI
164 2011-05-18 01:09:18 <phantomcircuit> HELLO
165 2011-05-18 01:09:24 <forrestv> Mookman288, use a miner client that supports long polling and you'll be golden
166 2011-05-18 01:09:29 <TYPE1000> Im new hehe
167 2011-05-18 01:09:43 <diki> it does phantom
168 2011-05-18 01:09:47 <diki> it needs miniupnpc
169 2011-05-18 01:09:47 <Mookman288> forrestv: I'm using cpuminer, with a 7-10% stale rate.
170 2011-05-18 01:09:53 <diki> which in return needs iptables
171 2011-05-18 01:10:36 <forrestv> Mookman288, you'll never produce a profit with cpu mining ...
172 2011-05-18 01:10:36 <phantomcircuit> diki, neither of which are X
173 2011-05-18 01:10:41 <TYPE1000> do i need anything else beside client to make bitcoins?
174 2011-05-18 01:10:55 <diki> with X i was refering to them
175 2011-05-18 01:10:58 <forrestv> TYPE1000, a graphics card, and a miner program for it
176 2011-05-18 01:11:08 <Mookman288> forrestv: That's not relevant to my request of information.
177 2011-05-18 01:11:11 <diki> iptables is installed, but miniupncp just doesnt want to find the headers
178 2011-05-18 01:11:24 <phantomcircuit> diki, distro?
179 2011-05-18 01:11:40 EPiSKiNG has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
180 2011-05-18 01:11:49 <TYPE1000> ok thanks forrestv i will look now for t hat
181 2011-05-18 01:12:07 <diki> Natty someone
182 2011-05-18 01:12:38 <phantomcircuit> diki, lol ubuntu?
183 2011-05-18 01:12:42 <diki> yes?
184 2011-05-18 01:12:48 <forrestv> Mookman288, yeah, it wasn't really.
185 2011-05-18 01:12:50 <phantomcircuit> do you really need to build it yourself?
186 2011-05-18 01:13:09 <diki> wait...wasnt there a binary on bitcoin.org?
187 2011-05-18 01:13:13 <diki> you just reminded me....
188 2011-05-18 01:13:22 <phantomcircuit> yes
189 2011-05-18 01:13:23 <phantomcircuit> yes there is
190 2011-05-18 01:13:24 <Mookman288> forrestv: I assure you if I were gung ho about this I would have invested in FPGA or something akin to that.
191 2011-05-18 01:13:34 <diki> *facepalm*
192 2011-05-18 01:13:37 <Mookman288> forrestv: I'm just interested in reducing stale shares with what I'm using.
193 2011-05-18 01:14:16 <phantomcircuit> Mookman288, when you start cpu miner it should tell you whether long polling is enabled
194 2011-05-18 01:14:22 <phantomcircuit> if it doesn't then it's not
195 2011-05-18 01:14:30 <Mookman288> phantomcircuit: It is, stales are still pretty high.
196 2011-05-18 01:15:10 DukeOfURL has joined
197 2011-05-18 01:15:17 <phantomcircuit> Mookman288, bad luck?
198 2011-05-18 01:15:28 warweed has joined
199 2011-05-18 01:15:33 <Mookman288> phantomcircuit: I hope not.
200 2011-05-18 01:15:55 <phantomcircuit> i've been running cpuminer without any issues
201 2011-05-18 01:15:57 <Mookman288> It doubled in the last 10 minutes.
202 2011-05-18 01:16:07 <warweed> does anyon3e have a link to the video that was on the bitcoin.org site like a month ago ? im giving a presentation and would like to include it
203 2011-05-18 01:16:12 <phantomcircuit> might just be a pool bug
204 2011-05-18 01:16:17 <phantomcircuit> which one are you using?
205 2011-05-18 01:16:20 <Mookman288> Which I didn't notice until just now, so my original statement of "high" stale rate is higher.
206 2011-05-18 01:16:26 <Mookman288> I'm trying out deepbit right now, they have a neat interface.
207 2011-05-18 01:16:53 <phantomcircuit> meh
208 2011-05-18 01:17:12 <warweed> anyone at all ?
209 2011-05-18 01:17:27 <Mookman288> The amount I'm contributing could not adversely affect the market, phantomcircuit.
210 2011-05-18 01:17:29 <phantomcircuit> warweed, it's still there iirc
211 2011-05-18 01:17:49 <phantomcircuit> Mookman288, apparently they're buggy though
212 2011-05-18 01:18:02 <phantomcircuit> warweed, http://www.weusecoins.com/
213 2011-05-18 01:18:18 EPiSKiNG has joined
214 2011-05-18 01:18:22 <Mookman288> phantomcircuit: I wasn't aware of that.
215 2011-05-18 01:18:53 <phantomcircuit> Mookman288, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Eligius
216 2011-05-18 01:19:04 <phantomcircuit> Mookman288, simpler, lower fees, probably less buggy
217 2011-05-18 01:19:52 <Mookman288> phantomcircuit: But no way to determine your statistics, ie shares/stales/btc
218 2011-05-18 01:20:56 <Mookman288> phantomcircuit: My mistake: http://eligius.st/~artefact2/
219 2011-05-18 01:22:08 <EPiSKiNG> I'm getting the error "Some of MSI Afterburner's components are expired, missing or corrupted" Tried re-installing, same issue.. any suggestions?
220 2011-05-18 01:23:50 Moonies is now known as Noomies
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234 2011-05-18 01:45:37 Diablo-D3 has joined
235 2011-05-18 01:45:55 <diki> For some reason i always get json_rpc_call failed,
236 2011-05-18 01:46:03 <diki> why...?
237 2011-05-18 01:46:09 <guiklb> because the rpc call failed.
238 2011-05-18 01:46:36 <guiklb> does it happens on all remote servers ?
239 2011-05-18 01:46:44 <diki> pushpool
240 2011-05-18 01:47:18 <guiklb> ok, so youre getting this message while trying to connect to your own pushpool server ?
241 2011-05-18 01:47:40 <diki> yup
242 2011-05-18 01:47:49 <diki> everything should be correct
243 2011-05-18 01:47:50 <guiklb> then its something between your pushpool server and your bitcoin server.
244 2011-05-18 01:48:15 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
245 2011-05-18 01:48:20 <guiklb> do you get error code -2 ?
246 2011-05-18 01:48:39 <guiklb> or upstream rpc error
247 2011-05-18 01:48:52 <diki> those i will get if bitcoin is not running
248 2011-05-18 01:48:56 <diki> no i do not get them
249 2011-05-18 01:49:15 <guiklb> do you have rpcallowip on bitcoin.conf ?
250 2011-05-18 01:49:47 <diki> nopw
251 2011-05-18 01:49:50 <diki> *no
252 2011-05-18 01:50:11 <guiklb> add rpcallowip=* (or your specific ipv4) on bitcoin.conf and restart bitcoin daemon/server
253 2011-05-18 01:50:25 <BaltarNZ> anyone have an idea why sendtoaddress will not work from RPC, I'm just getting NULL back.
254 2011-05-18 01:50:37 mmoya has joined
255 2011-05-18 01:51:08 <guiklb> pushpool misses a lot of documentation :(
256 2011-05-18 01:51:16 vorlov has joined
257 2011-05-18 01:51:33 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
258 2011-05-18 01:52:21 <da2ce7> ;;isitdown https://www.bitcoin.org/smf/
259 2011-05-18 01:52:23 <gribble> http://https%3A -> Huh? Error... - Check if your website is up or down?
260 2011-05-18 01:52:35 <luke-jr> da2ce7: it moved
261 2011-05-18 01:52:44 <diki> No dice. In pushpool i get http request failed: something abour erro 500. jgarzik's miner returns json_call failed
262 2011-05-18 01:52:45 <da2ce7> ooo where to?
263 2011-05-18 01:52:51 <diki> *error
264 2011-05-18 01:52:51 <luke-jr> http://forums.bitcoin.org
265 2011-05-18 01:52:54 <guiklb> http://forum.bitcoin.org
266 2011-05-18 01:52:58 <luke-jr> forum*
267 2011-05-18 01:53:12 <da2ce7> they so need to update the bitcoin.org site then,.
268 2011-05-18 01:53:16 <guiklb> diki, no idea then.
269 2011-05-18 01:53:20 morbundi has joined
270 2011-05-18 01:53:49 <da2ce7> why not leave a redirect page at /smf ?
271 2011-05-18 01:54:03 <diki> wait now i get upstream error
272 2011-05-18 01:54:07 <diki> code -2
273 2011-05-18 01:54:23 <luke-jr> da2ce7: I think the main .org is down
274 2011-05-18 01:54:26 Netsniper has joined
275 2011-05-18 01:54:51 <da2ce7> massive /. fun or maintaince?
276 2011-05-18 01:55:40 <diki> so what does this upstream rpc error mean?
277 2011-05-18 01:55:47 Clark has left ()
278 2011-05-18 01:56:03 <guiklb> if i remember correctly, i fixed this error with the rpcallowip thing
279 2011-05-18 01:57:41 morbundi has left ()
280 2011-05-18 02:00:12 <diki> seems like it's dling blocks
281 2011-05-18 02:00:14 <diki> maybe thats why
282 2011-05-18 02:03:56 <jgarzik> diki: watch $BITCOINDIR/debug.log to see what bitcoind is doing
283 2011-05-18 02:05:20 <diki> in the beginning of the file...new block etc
284 2011-05-18 02:08:35 Herodes has joined
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286 2011-05-18 02:10:33 <diki> although, sadly i only got 1 connection :(
287 2011-05-18 02:11:35 amstan has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
288 2011-05-18 02:12:04 <diki> where is the premade 120k blocks file?
289 2011-05-18 02:12:37 annieL has quit (Quit: Don't push the red button!)
290 2011-05-18 02:13:04 <guiklb> how can I make bitcoind show the total hashespersec for all connected miners ?
291 2011-05-18 02:13:50 rtulio has joined
292 2011-05-18 02:14:07 <XX01XX> guiklb... you can't... you could estimate it based on the historic rate of block discovery, though.
293 2011-05-18 02:14:11 <kreal-> you cant
294 2011-05-18 02:14:14 <kreal-> you need a proxy
295 2011-05-18 02:15:13 mtrlt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
296 2011-05-18 02:15:13 <Xunie`> ;;bc,stat
297 2011-05-18 02:15:14 <gribble> Error: "bc,stat" is not a valid command.
298 2011-05-18 02:15:17 <Xunie`> ;;bc
299 2011-05-18 02:15:18 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
300 2011-05-18 02:15:29 <Xunie`> Damn it.
301 2011-05-18 02:22:35 <Beremat> ;;bc,stats
302 2011-05-18 02:22:37 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124749 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 242 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 23 hours, 51 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 236316.79592901
303 2011-05-18 02:22:44 <Xunie`> Damn it.
304 2011-05-18 02:22:47 <Xunie`> That was it.
305 2011-05-18 02:22:52 <Beremat> you were close :p
306 2011-05-18 02:23:07 <Xunie`> I know! :O
307 2011-05-18 02:24:31 <guiklb> whats stored in sharees.log? (pushpoold) is there any info regarding it ?
308 2011-05-18 02:29:10 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
309 2011-05-18 02:29:42 DukeOfURL has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
310 2011-05-18 02:30:08 <jgarzik> guiklb: the solution, and who contributed it
311 2011-05-18 02:31:00 amstan has joined
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319 2011-05-18 02:39:11 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
320 2011-05-18 02:45:58 <plato_> can I set the location of bitcoins working directory
321 2011-05-18 02:46:03 <plato_> to somewhere encrypted
322 2011-05-18 02:48:43 sacarlson has joined
323 2011-05-18 02:51:24 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
324 2011-05-18 02:53:01 <luke-jr> plato_: yes
325 2011-05-18 02:54:08 BlueMatt has joined
326 2011-05-18 02:54:13 <plato_> is there a command line flag or something
327 2011-05-18 02:55:16 BlueMattBot has joined
328 2011-05-18 02:56:28 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
329 2011-05-18 02:57:00 dbitcoin has joined
330 2011-05-18 02:58:38 EPiSKiNG has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
331 2011-05-18 02:58:45 EPiSKiNG has joined
332 2011-05-18 03:00:42 <horb> hey weasel, oops i mean luke-jr
333 2011-05-18 03:00:51 <horb> EPIC!!
334 2011-05-18 03:04:01 <horb> luke-jr = guy who would sell his own mother for 1 btc
335 2011-05-18 03:05:13 eoss has joined
336 2011-05-18 03:06:21 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
337 2011-05-18 03:06:36 amiller has joined
338 2011-05-18 03:09:15 Moonies has joined
339 2011-05-18 03:11:28 <EPiSKiNG> in natty, do i just repeat sudo aticonfig --initial -f --adapter=all, when installing a new card?
340 2011-05-18 03:11:36 <EPiSKiNG> or do i have to do anything?
341 2011-05-18 03:12:50 Xunie` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
342 2011-05-18 03:13:03 <Diablo-D3> has anyone confirmed if SDK 2.1 works on 67xx?
343 2011-05-18 03:14:02 plato_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
344 2011-05-18 03:14:42 plato_ has joined
345 2011-05-18 03:18:57 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
346 2011-05-18 03:19:27 <ne0futur> ;;rate MadSweeney 1
347 2011-05-18 03:19:28 <gribble> Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user MadSweeney has been recorded.
348 2011-05-18 03:22:10 plato_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
349 2011-05-18 03:23:42 plato_ has joined
350 2011-05-18 03:24:16 <da2ce7> ;;isitdown bitcoin.org
351 2011-05-18 03:24:17 <gribble> http://bitcoin.org Is Up -> Check if your website is up or down?
352 2011-05-18 03:24:21 <da2ce7> :O
353 2011-05-18 03:24:43 <da2ce7> bitcoin.org is so down for me.
354 2011-05-18 03:25:40 Schematografter has joined
355 2011-05-18 03:27:03 sgornick has joined
356 2011-05-18 03:27:31 <jrabbit> wfm
357 2011-05-18 03:27:40 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
358 2011-05-18 03:29:19 plato_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
359 2011-05-18 03:29:22 jmorton has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
360 2011-05-18 03:29:35 Lachesis has joined
361 2011-05-18 03:30:50 plato_ has joined
362 2011-05-18 03:31:39 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
363 2011-05-18 03:31:39 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.389,"low":6.9799,"vol":38537,"buy":7.1598,"sell":7.3448,"last":7.3454}}
364 2011-05-18 03:32:07 Shadow^Dancer has joined
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367 2011-05-18 03:34:56 guiklb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
368 2011-05-18 03:35:03 guiklb has joined
369 2011-05-18 03:39:56 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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371 2011-05-18 03:43:39 Kiba has joined
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375 2011-05-18 03:59:12 Moonies has joined
376 2011-05-18 03:59:35 <Jere_Jones> ;;bc,mtgox
377 2011-05-18 03:59:36 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.389,"low":6.9799,"vol":38326,"buy":7.2001,"sell":7.2002,"last":7.2002}}
378 2011-05-18 04:00:38 Schematografter has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
379 2011-05-18 04:03:30 spitteler has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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382 2011-05-18 04:04:13 spitteler has joined
383 2011-05-18 04:04:27 <latregetic> slowly trending downward
384 2011-05-18 04:05:36 roland4223 has joined
385 2011-05-18 04:05:52 Sedra- has joined
386 2011-05-18 04:06:03 roland4223 has quit (Client Quit)
387 2011-05-18 04:06:30 ForceDestroyer has joined
388 2011-05-18 04:06:40 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
389 2011-05-18 04:06:41 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.389,"low":6.9799,"vol":38336,"buy":7.2201,"sell":7.3362,"last":7.2201}}
390 2011-05-18 04:07:46 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
391 2011-05-18 04:08:59 wumpus has quit ()
392 2011-05-18 04:09:19 wumpus has joined
393 2011-05-18 04:09:32 <phantomcircuit> latregetic, s/trending downward/stabilizing/
394 2011-05-18 04:10:25 Vandroiy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
395 2011-05-18 04:11:03 cosurg1 has joined
396 2011-05-18 04:11:10 sipa_ has joined
397 2011-05-18 04:11:14 <latregetic> probably (we hope)
398 2011-05-18 04:11:29 <latregetic> If it stabalizes at about $5 for the next quarter, we're golden
399 2011-05-18 04:11:44 <latregetic> if it keeps climbing, it's probably gonna crater 1927 style
400 2011-05-18 04:12:34 <phantomcircuit> it's been ~ stable for days now
401 2011-05-18 04:12:36 <gjs278> I have no hope that they reach $5
402 2011-05-18 04:13:24 <latregetic> if you look at the last month, it's been climbing pretty crazily for a currency
403 2011-05-18 04:13:43 <gjs278> good
404 2011-05-18 04:13:48 <latregetic> it was long term stable at like a $1 for a while before that
405 2011-05-18 04:13:59 <phantomcircuit> latregetic, it's a commodity
406 2011-05-18 04:14:11 <latregetic> which means either this is a boom created by media attention, or it's a true reflection of the current price
407 2011-05-18 04:14:24 <gjs278> boom away
408 2011-05-18 04:14:26 <noagendamarket> its undervalued imo
409 2011-05-18 04:14:28 <latregetic> In one case, uh oh, in the other, horray!
410 2011-05-18 04:14:34 <gjs278> the boom is great
411 2011-05-18 04:14:42 <gjs278> I'm selling these things as they come in, boom away
412 2011-05-18 04:14:44 <latregetic> as long as you cash out on time, yeah
413 2011-05-18 04:14:58 <latregetic> I'm selling mine in batches of 5 btc
414 2011-05-18 04:15:16 <phantomcircuit> latregetic, unlike in a conventional fiat currency boom/bust
415 2011-05-18 04:15:26 <phantomcircuit> 1 btc will never be completely worthless
416 2011-05-18 04:15:47 <latregetic> SHA-256 rulnerability discovered, chain compromised, BTC worthless
417 2011-05-18 04:15:56 <Diablo-D3> latregetic: dude
418 2011-05-18 04:15:57 <latregetic> *vulnerability
419 2011-05-18 04:15:58 <Diablo-D3> if that happens
420 2011-05-18 04:16:02 <Diablo-D3> thats the end of the world
421 2011-05-18 04:16:05 <phantomcircuit> there are much bigger problems
422 2011-05-18 04:16:07 <latregetic> yeah, tons of shit is fucked
423 2011-05-18 04:16:13 ninjaneo has joined
424 2011-05-18 04:16:13 <Diablo-D3> anonymous launches military nukes
425 2011-05-18 04:16:16 <latregetic> but never is a very powerful word, you should always qualify it
426 2011-05-18 04:16:17 <Diablo-D3> we easedrop on childporn
427 2011-05-18 04:16:22 <Diablo-D3> and the cure for cancer is found
428 2011-05-18 04:16:23 <phantomcircuit> well anyways
429 2011-05-18 04:16:29 <phantomcircuit> cpumining on an atom with free power
430 2011-05-18 04:16:44 <phantomcircuit> woooo ill make like 0.0001 BTC tonight!
431 2011-05-18 04:16:44 <gjs278> I cpu mine on an actual atom
432 2011-05-18 04:16:48 <Diablo-D3> and btw, sha256 has passed the point that its insecure
433 2011-05-18 04:16:54 <Diablo-D3> even if a slight attack is found at this point
434 2011-05-18 04:16:58 <Diablo-D3> it cant do enough to matter
435 2011-05-18 04:17:03 <latregetic> how so?
436 2011-05-18 04:17:09 <latregetic> sort of like the MD5 attacks
437 2011-05-18 04:17:12 <gjs278> because we sha256 twice, double the proection!!!!
438 2011-05-18 04:17:15 Optimo has joined
439 2011-05-18 04:17:25 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: well, that just stops length extension attacks
440 2011-05-18 04:17:26 <latregetic> it cuts the space for brute force by like 60%, still not enough to make anything useful feasible?
441 2011-05-18 04:17:40 redengin has quit (Quit: AndroIRC)
442 2011-05-18 04:17:44 <Diablo-D3> latregetic: you mean time to brute, and no, 60% is way too big
443 2011-05-18 04:17:51 <Diablo-D3> if ones found, its going to be near 0.
444 2011-05-18 04:18:07 <Diablo-D3> collisions are a worse problem than anything
445 2011-05-18 04:18:16 <Diablo-D3> and they're useless here due to the nature of bitcoin
446 2011-05-18 04:18:31 <latregetic> I know there were some MD5 attacks that cut the search space by some pretty large percentage
447 2011-05-18 04:18:39 <latregetic> and I can't recall if it was 60% of the exponent, or 60% of the total space
448 2011-05-18 04:18:43 mesees has joined
449 2011-05-18 04:18:48 <latregetic> 2^36 vs 2^64
450 2011-05-18 04:18:51 <latregetic> or something
451 2011-05-18 04:18:53 <Diablo-D3> md5 found a huge flaw
452 2011-05-18 04:19:08 <Diablo-D3> but that sort of attack doesnt really apply to us
453 2011-05-18 04:19:36 <latregetic> and we can always just patch the protocol to SHA-512 or something if a vulnerability is discovered
454 2011-05-18 04:19:39 <Diablo-D3> like, we're handing out the original header, and it has to be a certain size
455 2011-05-18 04:19:49 <Diablo-D3> theres no way around that
456 2011-05-18 04:19:54 <Diablo-D3> the header has to be valid, every single byte
457 2011-05-18 04:19:59 <latregetic> yeah, the protocol itself is contrained such that a lot of the attacks aren't really useful
458 2011-05-18 04:20:06 <Optimo> proof of work
459 2011-05-18 04:20:13 <Optimo> genius
460 2011-05-18 04:20:14 <Diablo-D3> the sha256 is not used for cryptographic reasons
461 2011-05-18 04:20:32 <latregetic> What do they use for high security crypto now?
462 2011-05-18 04:20:37 <Diablo-D3> sha2-512
463 2011-05-18 04:20:52 <Diablo-D3> same thing though
464 2011-05-18 04:20:53 <latregetic> why is it insecure now?
465 2011-05-18 04:21:00 <Diablo-D3> its not
466 2011-05-18 04:21:03 Lachesis has joined
467 2011-05-18 04:21:05 <Diablo-D3> sha2 has no known vulnerabilities
468 2011-05-18 04:22:32 <latregetic> Does SHA have some kind of vulnerability now though?
469 2011-05-18 04:22:50 <Diablo-D3> sha1? yes
470 2011-05-18 04:22:59 <Diablo-D3> thats a completely different and unrelated hash
471 2011-05-18 04:24:22 <latregetic> I meant SHA2-256, what we use now
472 2011-05-18 04:24:36 <luke-jr> latregetic: erm, no
473 2011-05-18 04:24:43 <luke-jr> if SHA-256 is broken, Bitcoin falls
474 2011-05-18 04:24:53 <latregetic> That's what I figured
475 2011-05-18 04:25:08 <latregetic> but a theoretical way to increase collisions isn't really breaking it
476 2011-05-18 04:25:38 <latregetic> at least not in a useful way before bitcoin moves to a new hash solution
477 2011-05-18 04:26:32 da2ce7 has joined
478 2011-05-18 04:27:12 <ninjaneo> lul if you have to move to a new hash, that = broken
479 2011-05-18 04:28:28 <luke-jr> Bitcoin cannot move to a new hash solution
480 2011-05-18 04:28:34 <da2ce7> wtf is up with the bitcoin forum...
481 2011-05-18 04:28:36 <luke-jr> it would just be a totally new network
482 2011-05-18 04:28:39 <luke-jr> da2ce7: it moved
483 2011-05-18 04:29:05 ar4s has joined
484 2011-05-18 04:29:11 <da2ce7> fourm.bitcoin.org don't load for me.
485 2011-05-18 04:29:20 <ninjaneo> typo
486 2011-05-18 04:29:51 <da2ce7> (blush)
487 2011-05-18 04:30:03 <latregetic> couldn't you set some future block to be the new origin block, and recompute using the new hash to maintain the chain of transactions?
488 2011-05-18 04:30:18 <da2ce7> then need to put a redirect from bitcoin.org/smf to the forum.bitcoin.org.
489 2011-05-18 04:30:19 <ninjaneo> how would you transfer balance
490 2011-05-18 04:31:06 <latregetic> It would be the same system, except with some logic that says if block number >250,000, use SHA2-512 instead of SHA2-256
491 2011-05-18 04:31:24 <latregetic> so the transition is reasonably seamless and nobody loses value
492 2011-05-18 04:31:38 eamon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
493 2011-05-18 04:31:42 gsathya has joined
494 2011-05-18 04:32:00 <da2ce7> latregetic, other than all the asic chips being made useless
495 2011-05-18 04:32:22 <latregetic> yeah, custom hardware is fucked, but the software in hardware stuff like the gpu miners are fine
496 2011-05-18 04:32:47 <latregetic> I meant from the standpoint of joe everydude who has a wallet app for his android
497 2011-05-18 04:33:13 <ninjaneo> everyone would have to update their client
498 2011-05-18 04:33:34 HaXoR_DB has joined
499 2011-05-18 04:33:52 latregetic1 has joined
500 2011-05-18 04:34:05 <ninjaneo> i dont see it going smoothly
501 2011-05-18 04:34:16 latregetic has quit (Disconnected by services)
502 2011-05-18 04:34:24 <da2ce7> ninjaneo, most people will update their clients within a year
503 2011-05-18 04:34:26 latregetic1 is now known as Latregetic
504 2011-05-18 04:34:50 <ninjaneo> that aside some people would continue making transactions
505 2011-05-18 04:35:05 <ninjaneo> and you couldn't just be like "no sorry, invalid"
506 2011-05-18 04:35:15 retinal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
507 2011-05-18 04:35:20 <ninjaneo> because the transaction already could've been confirmed or whatever
508 2011-05-18 04:35:31 <ninjaneo> services/goods bought/rendered
509 2011-05-18 04:35:50 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
510 2011-05-18 04:36:12 rtulio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
511 2011-05-18 04:36:31 <da2ce7> well you are garrenteed to get a block chain spit at that point...
512 2011-05-18 04:36:43 <Latregetic> It wouldn't be a split, just a new origin block
513 2011-05-18 04:36:58 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * ra0218e6 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Catch more broken JSON - http://bit.ly/is84Ml
514 2011-05-18 04:37:03 <da2ce7> Latregetic, the non-updated miners will reject the sha512 blocks.
515 2011-05-18 04:37:07 <Latregetic> and yeah, a 'hey fuck-o, update your shit or it's stop working' would be handy
516 2011-05-18 04:37:13 retinal has joined
517 2011-05-18 04:37:26 <Latregetic> the miners have the duty to update thier shit more often than once every 2 months
518 2011-05-18 04:37:35 <da2ce7> no they don't.
519 2011-05-18 04:37:42 <Latregetic> any switchover would probably take 6 months to a year to design and implement
520 2011-05-18 04:37:51 sethsethseth____ has joined
521 2011-05-18 04:37:54 <Latregetic> Then you're wasting power for nothing
522 2011-05-18 04:37:57 <da2ce7> it is perfectly resonaoble for a group of people ot reject the change.
523 2011-05-18 04:38:08 <Latregetic> when you see 'pool rejected all your shares', you'll notice something is wrong
524 2011-05-18 04:38:09 NOTAL has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
525 2011-05-18 04:38:28 <Latregetic> If they reject the change due to laziness when a known cryptographic attack on the hash was public, then fuck them
526 2011-05-18 04:38:30 <ninjaneo> but say time lapses,
527 2011-05-18 04:38:36 <ninjaneo> the 512 system is now in place
528 2011-05-18 04:38:40 <ninjaneo> how do you get your balance
529 2011-05-18 04:38:55 <da2ce7> you will have a ballence in both chains.
530 2011-05-18 04:39:06 <ninjaneo> from 256 into the 512, if the reason for switching was 256 is compromised, its a fail
531 2011-05-18 04:39:13 <da2ce7> you get to spend your coins twice
532 2011-05-18 04:39:19 <ninjaneo> yea lol
533 2011-05-18 04:39:23 <ninjaneo> itd be fucked
534 2011-05-18 04:39:32 <Latregetic> Nah, the SHA-256 chain would be killed at some block number, then everything past that would be 256, except for the few legacy transactions
535 2011-05-18 04:39:37 <da2ce7> lol, I don't see sha256 being invalid anytime soon.
536 2011-05-18 04:39:47 <ninjaneo> you cant just kill it
537 2011-05-18 04:40:11 <da2ce7> people have to agree to move
538 2011-05-18 04:40:14 <Latregetic> Why not? From what I understand of the Proof-of-work chain is that it's backwards compatible with pretty much any hash
539 2011-05-18 04:40:36 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
540 2011-05-18 04:40:38 <da2ce7> Latregetic, becasue everyone needs to agree with the change.
541 2011-05-18 04:40:40 <luke-jr> Latregetic: no
542 2011-05-18 04:40:54 <luke-jr> Latregetic: if you crack SHA-256, you can *rewrite the history*
543 2011-05-18 04:40:57 <raep3d> in case a shortcut will be found (predict statistic input for nonces, what do i know) it will not shatter sha256 entirely
544 2011-05-18 04:41:01 sethsethseth has joined
545 2011-05-18 04:41:10 <raep3d> the cryptographer will just make shitload of money and the cryptoanalysis will eventually go public
546 2011-05-18 04:41:21 <Latregetic> pretty much
547 2011-05-18 04:41:30 <da2ce7> what you can do, is get a certified re-hash of all the past transactions...
548 2011-05-18 04:41:43 <da2ce7> using a stronger hash.
549 2011-05-18 04:41:47 <Latregetic> This switchover would only take place once a valid and potentially useful attack was made public
550 2011-05-18 04:42:01 <da2ce7> and everyone agrees on that 're-hash' of the histrory
551 2011-05-18 04:42:26 <raep3d> or just carry on using partially broken sha256
552 2011-05-18 04:42:37 <raep3d> only viable attack is to exploit the fact the hash is truncated
553 2011-05-18 04:42:42 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
554 2011-05-18 04:42:45 <ninjaneo> yeah the only thing i see wokring is if everyone agreed to accept payments from some 256 bit address to a 512 bit, and then this was no longer allowed at some point, but you have to get every last person to agree
555 2011-05-18 04:42:47 <da2ce7> raep3d, this is ony if sha256 is completely broken
556 2011-05-18 04:42:58 <raep3d> completely is highly unlikely
557 2011-05-18 04:43:01 <Latregetic> Couldn't you just have a list of all the SHA-256 block hashes, then SHA2-512 it to like 12 zeros and call it good enough?
558 2011-05-18 04:43:01 <da2ce7> that I don't see happening
559 2011-05-18 04:43:11 <Diablo-D3> uh
560 2011-05-18 04:43:12 <raep3d> even if md5 would be used it would work
561 2011-05-18 04:43:18 <Diablo-D3> Latregetic: sha512 doesnt work that way
562 2011-05-18 04:43:22 <da2ce7> well at lesast until 256 bit quantum computers.
563 2011-05-18 04:43:27 <raep3d> the attack is pretty specific about the biases
564 2011-05-18 04:43:36 <Diablo-D3> sha512 doesnt use the sha256 formula and output more zeros
565 2011-05-18 04:43:51 <Diablo-D3> it basically s/int/long/ everywhere
566 2011-05-18 04:44:03 <da2ce7> sha512 uses larger starting roataion table.
567 2011-05-18 04:44:04 <raep3d> yep, sha512 is 64bit version of sha256
568 2011-05-18 04:44:05 <Diablo-D3> A-G, w0-15, input, output
569 2011-05-18 04:44:26 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
570 2011-05-18 04:44:28 <Latregetic> Ok, how would the transition actually work then?
571 2011-05-18 04:44:39 <Latregetic> because my grasp of crypto shit seems shaky
572 2011-05-18 04:44:41 <Diablo-D3> what, for new hashes?
573 2011-05-18 04:44:49 <ninjaneo> there shall be no transition /me waves hand
574 2011-05-18 04:44:49 <raep3d> Latregetic: for some block number predicted to be in 1-2 years in future
575 2011-05-18 04:44:52 <raep3d> mandatory switchover
576 2011-05-18 04:44:53 <Diablo-D3> blocks have a version field.
577 2011-05-18 04:44:57 <da2ce7> um, they will just use a the longer hash.
578 2011-05-18 04:45:01 <raep3d> most of the network would be updated by then
579 2011-05-18 04:45:09 <da2ce7> but the clients need to be updated to accept em'
580 2011-05-18 04:45:19 <Diablo-D3> add a version that supports sha512 or whatever
581 2011-05-18 04:45:20 <Latregetic> Let's say an attack allows for collisions with some reasonably low overhead, and SHA-256 is no longer useful for proof-of-work
582 2011-05-18 04:45:22 <raep3d> thats why you put the condition of certain block number
583 2011-05-18 04:45:23 <Diablo-D3> do it 2 years before you need it
584 2011-05-18 04:45:25 <Diablo-D3> and then bam
585 2011-05-18 04:45:28 <raep3d> from block N+2years use sha512
586 2011-05-18 04:45:33 <ninjaneo> start a bitcoin network with a different hash, and start generating, forget trying to combine a "compromised" system with an "uncompromised" one
587 2011-05-18 04:45:35 <Latregetic> That's what I figured
588 2011-05-18 04:45:39 <Diablo-D3> Latregetic: sha256 will ALWAYS be useful for it
589 2011-05-18 04:45:43 <Diablo-D3> at least for the next ten years
590 2011-05-18 04:45:43 <ninjaneo> and the fact that you want to switch to sha512 is funny
591 2011-05-18 04:46:00 <raep3d> Diablo-D3: you cant really predict advances in quantum cryptoanalysis
592 2011-05-18 04:46:06 ahbritto has joined
593 2011-05-18 04:46:08 <Latregetic> "uh oh, SHA-256 is going the way of MD5, better thing about moving", and change the protocol to "if block>300,000, use new hash"
594 2011-05-18 04:46:15 <ninjaneo> because its still sha, if they find a cryptanalysis for 256 i bet it applies to all the sha families
595 2011-05-18 04:46:20 <Diablo-D3> Latregetic: yup.
596 2011-05-18 04:46:21 <Latregetic> probably
597 2011-05-18 04:46:27 <Diablo-D3> ninjaneo: er no
598 2011-05-18 04:46:32 <Diablo-D3> sha1 is not related to sha2
599 2011-05-18 04:46:35 <da2ce7> better to move to a proven 'hard hash'
600 2011-05-18 04:46:35 <Diablo-D3> and sha3 isnt related to sha2
601 2011-05-18 04:46:39 <ninjaneo> lies
602 2011-05-18 04:46:46 <Diablo-D3> <-- GUY WHO WROTE MINER
603 2011-05-18 04:46:54 <ninjaneo> now you're full of it =p
604 2011-05-18 04:46:59 <raep3d> Diablo-D3: we know :)
605 2011-05-18 04:47:06 <Diablo-D3> I seem to have to remind people this.
606 2011-05-18 04:47:09 kylo has joined
607 2011-05-18 04:47:28 <Latregetic> haha
608 2011-05-18 04:47:50 <ninjaneo> so they throw in a shift right here and there
609 2011-05-18 04:47:52 <ninjaneo> big whoop
610 2011-05-18 04:48:04 <Latregetic> How hard would it be to update the protocol like that?
611 2011-05-18 04:48:09 <Latregetic> For a change a year down the line?
612 2011-05-18 04:48:12 <da2ce7> better to use a: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Provably_secure_cryptographic_hash_function
613 2011-05-18 04:48:14 <ninjaneo> we're already assuming sha256 is broken =p
614 2011-05-18 04:48:21 <da2ce7> Provably secure cryptographic hash function
615 2011-05-18 04:48:24 <raep3d> Latregetic: just new hashing class, and the if condition
616 2011-05-18 04:48:36 <raep3d> da2ce7: provably means proving n!=np
617 2011-05-18 04:48:36 <ninjaneo> provably
618 2011-05-18 04:48:37 <ninjaneo> lol
619 2011-05-18 04:48:40 <Latregetic> I meant more the logistics of getting everyone to switch
620 2011-05-18 04:48:49 <da2ce7> since speed of the hash dosn't really matter to bitcoin
621 2011-05-18 04:49:20 <raep3d> da2ce7: whole cryptography is based on our ignorance about higher math constructs
622 2011-05-18 04:49:38 <da2ce7> raep3d, not completely...
623 2011-05-18 04:49:58 <da2ce7> you can use multivarable proverably strong cypto... it just isn't as effecent.
624 2011-05-18 04:50:12 <raep3d> to be concrete, boolean satisfability and pigeon hole principle
625 2011-05-18 04:50:12 <Latregetic> The higher math is pretty mind bending, but if a thousand people fighting over huge academic e-penis points can't find a hole, it's probably not there
626 2011-05-18 04:50:28 <raep3d> which are school examples of n != np but there is no exact proof of that
627 2011-05-18 04:50:36 <Latregetic> or such a bastard to find that it'll take 10 years to poke a hole in it
628 2011-05-18 04:51:03 <raep3d> dont understand academic asspies
629 2011-05-18 04:51:09 <raep3d> underestimate
630 2011-05-18 04:51:10 <raep3d> :)
631 2011-05-18 04:51:11 <da2ce7> my favourate hash is Grøstl
632 2011-05-18 04:51:16 <da2ce7> I think that it is really cool
633 2011-05-18 04:51:38 <Latregetic> yeah, I have a lot of respect for someone that can do an entire multivariable intergration in his head
634 2011-05-18 04:51:51 <Latregetic> certainly a hell of a lot better at it than I am
635 2011-05-18 04:51:52 <raep3d> da2ce7: yeah, just fatter version of everything seen so far
636 2011-05-18 04:52:06 <ninjaneo> hmm at 50% of the way through the keyspace if we all were recording the hashes we found, we could make some type of sieve and maybe that would be worth it
637 2011-05-18 04:52:10 <Latregetic> and if he can't find a hole to cash in on the million dollar grant prize, I bet most others can't either
638 2011-05-18 04:52:10 kylo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
639 2011-05-18 04:52:45 <raep3d> Latregetic: the thing is you dont need high math for cryptoanalysis. just linear equations and their approximation. and sat solver logic.
640 2011-05-18 04:53:12 stahi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
641 2011-05-18 04:53:13 <raep3d> md5 attack is highly heuristic/statistics based
642 2011-05-18 04:53:26 <Latregetic> For checking if it's a good hash, sure, but for whacking holes in it, you need some pretty clever math
643 2011-05-18 04:53:36 hachque has joined
644 2011-05-18 04:53:40 <Latregetic> isn't md5 a pretty simple hash though?
645 2011-05-18 04:53:51 <hachque> hi everyone
646 2011-05-18 04:53:54 <raep3d> no it is conceptually similiar to sha family
647 2011-05-18 04:53:57 <Latregetic> hell, don't they have rainbow tables for some of it?
648 2011-05-18 04:53:58 <horb> luke-jr would sell his own mom for a couple btc
649 2011-05-18 04:54:02 <ninjaneo> i think the whole idea of sha is that the math is easy, theres just lots of it
650 2011-05-18 04:54:07 <raep3d> however back then it was poorly understood the implications of linearity
651 2011-05-18 04:54:08 <ninjaneo> and theres no shortcuts
652 2011-05-18 04:54:25 <raep3d> ninjaneo: pretty much. you can find the shortcuts
653 2011-05-18 04:54:31 <raep3d> google why sha0 was ditched by NSA
654 2011-05-18 04:54:42 <raep3d> and sha1 is just 2 ops change from it
655 2011-05-18 04:54:43 <da2ce7> Grostl, is good becasue much of it can be shared with Rijndael
656 2011-05-18 04:54:58 <hachque> this might sound like a weird question, but in an adaptation of the bitcoin algorithm; is it possible to associate data with individual bitcoins at all? would there theoretically be a way to do that?
657 2011-05-18 04:55:16 <raep3d> hachque: stenography is possible, but discouraged.
658 2011-05-18 04:55:23 <Latregetic> encode data in the address and ammounts, maybe?
659 2011-05-18 04:55:30 <raep3d> hachque: you risk getting your transactions ignored by miners if it hurts network performance
660 2011-05-18 04:55:34 <da2ce7> hachiya, you could sign some data with a bitcoin private key... and publish the signed data
661 2011-05-18 04:55:58 <hachque> raep3d: I meant more like custom data; in this case the adaptation would be for virtual items. Problem is, that in order for the virtual items to change at all, you need to change the data.
662 2011-05-18 04:56:00 <da2ce7> then only there will be a balance tired to some data.
663 2011-05-18 04:56:13 <raep3d> hachque: just establish your own blockchain for it
664 2011-05-18 04:56:22 <raep3d> hachque: and let people trade/mine your own coins for it
665 2011-05-18 04:56:23 <hachque> Knowing that changing the BitCoins is impossible, I instead thought that it might be possible to put another BitCoin account inside a BitCoin if that makes sense
666 2011-05-18 04:56:29 <da2ce7> bitcoin is not good at a storage layer...
667 2011-05-18 04:56:39 <raep3d> hachque: more cruft in mainline bitcoin means wider attack surface
668 2011-05-18 04:56:40 <da2ce7> if you want a good storage layer: see freeent
669 2011-05-18 04:57:09 <hachque> da2ce7: No, the items would be tradable (hence basing off BitCoin)
670 2011-05-18 04:57:26 <hachque> I mean, I only need to know theoretically if it's possible
671 2011-05-18 04:57:32 <raep3d> hachque: if you just want to sell virtual items, stick addresses to them and thats it :)
672 2011-05-18 04:57:37 <da2ce7> well why don't you sign some data with a bitcoin private key then?
673 2011-05-18 04:57:40 <hachque> I have no plans to implement such a system
674 2011-05-18 04:58:04 <hachque> raep3d: You mean assign bitcoin addresses to the bitcoins?
675 2011-05-18 04:58:07 <da2ce7> then if you know the bitcoin address, you can check if the claimed data is true.
676 2011-05-18 04:58:23 <raep3d> hachque: your "items" are essentially bills. lookup bitbills and how they work
677 2011-05-18 04:58:25 <hachque> The part that got be confused was that you could transfer any denomination of BitCoins; you could transfer 0.1 of a BitCoin
678 2011-05-18 04:58:28 <raep3d> hachque: you can exploit similiar schema
679 2011-05-18 04:58:43 <hachque> So where does the associated data go in the case of a <1 transfer
680 2011-05-18 04:58:57 <hachque> Okay, I'll look at that
681 2011-05-18 05:00:25 <raep3d> da2ce7: grostl is huge deviation from traditional hash functions (that would be ripe, md, sha so far)
682 2011-05-18 05:00:46 <hachque> Oh hang on, so you can fully read the contents of a BitCoin account with the address?
683 2011-05-18 05:00:55 <raep3d> however after md5 attack cryptographers are open to novelties
684 2011-05-18 05:01:13 <horb> im gonna sue this guy in ralston
685 2011-05-18 05:01:14 <horb> why not
686 2011-05-18 05:01:42 <raep3d> hachque: whoever has the private key can move money from that address
687 2011-05-18 05:01:55 <noagendamarket> horb good luck with that
688 2011-05-18 05:01:58 euclid has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
689 2011-05-18 05:02:01 <hachque> Okay, but I mean a third-party can look at the contents of the account without the private key right?
690 2011-05-18 05:02:19 <raep3d> hachque: sure, balances are always known.
691 2011-05-18 05:02:21 <hachque> So I can look at what items other people (or other items) would have without having control over the account
692 2011-05-18 05:02:33 <Latregetic> yeah, that's sort of the basis of the network
693 2011-05-18 05:02:39 <raep3d> they would have only bitcoins from that pow
694 2011-05-18 05:02:46 <hachque> I figured that essentially the hash of the block could be used to determine a type of those bitcoins associated with it
695 2011-05-18 05:02:51 <hachque> *type of those items
696 2011-05-18 05:02:51 <Latregetic> everyone knows the contents of accounts, and who owns what bitcoins, but nobody knows who actually owns those accounts
697 2011-05-18 05:02:52 <raep3d> item association should be done by pairing pubkey with external database
698 2011-05-18 05:03:12 <raep3d> hachque: the secret would be that nobody knows your pairing with address/item
699 2011-05-18 05:03:39 <raep3d> of course your system would be centralised, which is not problem considering its virtual world anyway.
700 2011-05-18 05:03:42 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
701 2011-05-18 05:03:47 <hachque> raep3d: No, it can't be centralised :)
702 2011-05-18 05:04:05 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: you broke it!
703 2011-05-18 05:04:18 <hachque> raep3d: Why can't I just associated the address of the account with the item (to represent subitems)?
704 2011-05-18 05:04:46 <raep3d> hachque: everybody will see it. so it must be encrypted somehow.
705 2011-05-18 05:04:59 malnilion has quit (Quit: Leaving)
706 2011-05-18 05:05:00 <raep3d> another possibility would be just BTC balance determining the item
707 2011-05-18 05:05:38 <hachque> raep3d: Wouldn't it be possible to just put the public key associated with item and then transfer the private key directly?
708 2011-05-18 05:05:41 <raep3d> hachque: it is possible to biggyback small amount of data inside your public key stored in the blockchain
709 2011-05-18 05:05:47 <hachque> Although, then the first person would still have the private key
710 2011-05-18 05:06:21 <hachque> Oh well, as long as it's possible to associate data with an individual BitCoin, the rest could theoretically be worked out later
711 2011-05-18 05:06:38 Stellar has quit (Quit: w00t)
712 2011-05-18 05:06:38 <hachque> I'm just double checking there isn't any fatal flaws in the idea to start with :)
713 2011-05-18 05:06:43 <hachque> Thanks everyone
714 2011-05-18 05:06:54 <raep3d> will be glad to play your btc mmo
715 2011-05-18 05:07:15 <hachque> Heh, don't expect to see it implemented :)
716 2011-05-18 05:07:20 Stellar has joined
717 2011-05-18 05:07:22 <hachque> It's only for a game pitch for a university subject :P
718 2011-05-18 05:08:22 hachque has left ("Do you have any idea how potato you were going?")
719 2011-05-18 05:08:56 Moonies has joined
720 2011-05-18 05:09:07 euclid has joined
721 2011-05-18 05:12:17 bitcoiner has joined
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723 2011-05-18 05:15:03 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * raa21426 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Whoops, fix LP spawn bug - http://bit.ly/ifOm9G
724 2011-05-18 05:16:24 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-gui: Stefan Thomas master * raf9f117 / index.html : Hide dialog HTML by default (It's visible during load otherwise.) - http://bit.ly/iunpgO
725 2011-05-18 05:16:24 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-gui: Stefan Thomas master * r190b5e6 / (7 files in 4 dirs): Major improvements to wallet lifecycle and exit node connection status. - http://bit.ly/j9skVr
726 2011-05-18 05:16:31 Aahzmundus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
727 2011-05-18 05:17:03 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
728 2011-05-18 05:17:51 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
729 2011-05-18 05:18:00 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
730 2011-05-18 05:18:33 Lachesis has joined
731 2011-05-18 05:19:09 Kiba has joined
732 2011-05-18 05:19:46 <sacarlson> I'm getting this error in compile of bitcoin last git update obj/main.o: In function 'SHA256Transform': \src/main.cpp:3349: undefined reference to 'CryptoPP::SHA256::Transform(unsigned int*, unsigned int const*)'
733 2011-05-18 05:20:01 <sacarlson> in windows XP mingw compiler
734 2011-05-18 05:20:28 <sacarlson> did I forget to add some new libs?
735 2011-05-18 05:23:27 <sacarlson> it compiles fine in ubuntu 10.04
736 2011-05-18 05:23:38 justmoon has joined
737 2011-05-18 05:24:24 chmod755 has joined
738 2011-05-18 05:28:05 TYPE1000 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
739 2011-05-18 05:32:59 da2ce7 has quit ()
740 2011-05-18 05:34:10 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
741 2011-05-18 05:35:49 da2ce7 has joined
742 2011-05-18 05:36:41 Lachesis has joined
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744 2011-05-18 05:50:17 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
745 2011-05-18 05:51:02 fimp has joined
746 2011-05-18 05:52:17 <dirtyfilthy> http://evilpacket.net/2011/may/17/stealing-bitcoins/
747 2011-05-18 05:52:38 <horb> Dashjr is an interesting surname
748 2011-05-18 05:52:41 <horb> how do you pronounce it?
749 2011-05-18 05:52:59 <ne0futur> dirtyfilthy: already fixed
750 2011-05-18 05:53:28 <dirtyfilthy> oh sweet
751 2011-05-18 05:57:30 <horb> dashjr !!
752 2011-05-18 05:57:40 <horb> my crystal ball reveals all
753 2011-05-18 05:58:15 sparebitsplz has joined
754 2011-05-18 05:58:21 Netsniper has quit (Quit: Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. -Emma Goldman)
755 2011-05-18 05:58:26 <sparebitsplz> hey guys
756 2011-05-18 05:58:28 Lachesis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
757 2011-05-18 05:58:45 <horb> sup bruh
758 2011-05-18 05:59:03 <sparebitsplz> not much broseph, how you doing?
759 2011-05-18 05:59:44 <horb> not bad, dealing with scum who welch on a bet (ahem *luke dashjr*)
760 2011-05-18 05:59:53 <horb> is welch the right word hmm
761 2011-05-18 06:00:11 <sparebitsplz> aye, not good man. sorry to hear that
762 2011-05-18 06:00:17 <sparebitsplz> how much?
763 2011-05-18 06:00:22 <horb> 1 btc :)
764 2011-05-18 06:00:45 <sparebitsplz> nice
765 2011-05-18 06:00:57 <sparebitsplz> i only have .02 lolz
766 2011-05-18 06:01:29 <sparebitsplz> so what do you understand about BTC? all of it?
767 2011-05-18 06:01:33 <horb> you know theres a bitcoin bubble when rappers start rapping about all the bitcoins they have
768 2011-05-18 06:01:49 <sparebitsplz> are they really?
769 2011-05-18 06:01:55 Netsniper has joined
770 2011-05-18 06:01:57 <horb> haha no not yet.. someday tho
771 2011-05-18 06:02:22 <sparebitsplz> hahaha
772 2011-05-18 06:02:25 <sparebitsplz> yeah
773 2011-05-18 06:03:08 <sparebitsplz> im kinda excited about this whole BTC thing though
774 2011-05-18 06:03:13 <sparebitsplz> its really interesting
775 2011-05-18 06:03:26 sc8nt4u has joined
776 2011-05-18 06:04:45 <horb> btc rules
777 2011-05-18 06:05:15 <lolcat> sparebitsplz: Invest fast, before the price jumps again
778 2011-05-18 06:05:26 <horb> hehe i dunno
779 2011-05-18 06:05:26 malnilion has joined
780 2011-05-18 06:06:17 <horb> if the main holders of btc are disciplined and dont sell off a lot then it has room to grow
781 2011-05-18 06:06:38 <horb> but if you had 50K btc, wouldnt you be selling off as much as you could at todays prices? and then go buy a house
782 2011-05-18 06:07:22 <lolcat> horb: Why not wait untill $16 and buy two?
783 2011-05-18 06:07:38 sparebitsplz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
784 2011-05-18 06:07:45 <horb> lolcat: well, the definition of game theory is avoiding regret...
785 2011-05-18 06:08:04 <horb> so.. if it didn't keep increasing and you lost a house as a result, that would be a lot of regret
786 2011-05-18 06:08:11 <lolcat> horb: I wont sell untill it is worth alot
787 2011-05-18 06:08:12 <chmod755> ;;remove 2558
788 2011-05-18 06:08:13 <gribble> Order remove successful, 1 orders removed.
789 2011-05-18 06:08:18 <chmod755> oops
790 2011-05-18 06:08:39 <horb> lolcat: yeah if enough ppl are long on btc thats good for investors
791 2011-05-18 06:09:14 Abhish has joined
792 2011-05-18 06:09:30 <horb> to a person who doesn't have a house, 1 house is worth quite a bit (no more rent /mortgage forever!), and 2 houses are worth less than the utility of 1 house
793 2011-05-18 06:09:36 <horb> diminishing returns
794 2011-05-18 06:09:49 rhett has joined
795 2011-05-18 06:09:51 <horb> less than 2x
796 2011-05-18 06:09:56 <rhett> what does this irc network do?
797 2011-05-18 06:10:01 <rhett> sorry, the one in bitcoin
798 2011-05-18 06:10:12 <horb> transaction broadcasts
799 2011-05-18 06:10:29 <rhett> why is bitcoin using irc? can't that be blocked?
800 2011-05-18 06:10:52 <sacarlson> horb: my parents houses property tax is more than my rent so don't always think it's free after you buy a house
801 2011-05-18 06:11:13 <horb> sacarlson, true but youd still have enough left over for a lifetime of prop tax
802 2011-05-18 06:11:38 <horb> but its usually on the order of 0-$1500 / yr
803 2011-05-18 06:11:41 <horb> how are they paying so much in prop tax
804 2011-05-18 06:12:01 <sacarlson> horb: I'm not sure my parents house went from a value of 350K USD to 75K USD still has to pay that tax though
805 2011-05-18 06:12:40 <horb> rhett: i dont know if theres a fallback but as far as p2p nets go, freenode is one of the best options out there
806 2011-05-18 06:13:05 <sacarlson> horb: rents is cheap in thailand dude
807 2011-05-18 06:13:23 <horb> nice.. how much
808 2011-05-18 06:14:11 sparebitcoinsplz has joined
809 2011-05-18 06:14:11 <rhett> oh right, the government couldn't shut down freenode?
810 2011-05-18 06:14:15 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
811 2011-05-18 06:14:20 <sacarlson> horb: depends most my friends pay 4000baht/month or about $125usd/month
812 2011-05-18 06:14:28 <horb> thats bahtaculous
813 2011-05-18 06:14:43 <horb> how much per diem for a girl
814 2011-05-18 06:15:02 <horb> rhett: cheney uses freenode to trade warez.. so theyd be pissing him off majorly if they did that
815 2011-05-18 06:15:12 <sacarlson> horb: I get the long term contracts of 10K baht/month on girls
816 2011-05-18 06:15:21 <horb> sweet
817 2011-05-18 06:15:28 <lolcat> sacarlson: on girls?
818 2011-05-18 06:15:31 <sacarlson> horb: longer term they pay you
819 2011-05-18 06:15:44 <horb> i knew a guy who literally had sex every night for 30 days in pattaya
820 2011-05-18 06:15:48 <horb> bar girls
821 2011-05-18 06:16:07 <sacarlson> horb: offtopic
822 2011-05-18 06:16:22 <horb> rhett: well there are lots of freenode servers in different countries.. youd need jurisdiction in each one
823 2011-05-18 06:16:32 <rhett> i heard of guys who can have sex every night for free...
824 2011-05-18 06:16:43 <horb> haha.. theyre not on irc
825 2011-05-18 06:16:48 <horb> theyre out having sex
826 2011-05-18 06:16:58 <sparebitcoinsplz> lol
827 2011-05-18 06:17:26 <horb> he claimed he had about 60 girls in 30 days.. impressive
828 2011-05-18 06:17:32 <lolcat> When my girlfriend is around, I can have sex every houre
829 2011-05-18 06:17:44 <lolcat> horb: Not as impressive when they all look the same
830 2011-05-18 06:18:28 <chmod755> I think bitcoin also needs an extension like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Peer_Discovery
831 2011-05-18 06:18:29 fimp has joined
832 2011-05-18 06:19:22 <sacarlson> lolcat: horb: sound like you should vist #sexthailand freenode chat site
833 2011-05-18 06:19:22 <chmod755> is this #bitcoin-dev or #sex-dev ?
834 2011-05-18 06:19:31 <gjs278> #lies-dev
835 2011-05-18 06:19:33 <lolcat> sacarlson: Oo
836 2011-05-18 06:19:37 <XX01XX> cake-dev
837 2011-05-18 06:19:50 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
838 2011-05-18 06:19:50 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.1001,"low":6.9799,"vol":33494,"buy":7.11,"sell":7.26,"last":7.13}}
839 2011-05-18 06:19:54 <horb> but cmon.. why else would anyone go to thailand
840 2011-05-18 06:20:03 <horb> (besides the cheap rent / pad thai)
841 2011-05-18 06:20:13 <XX01XX> you can get a lobster dinner for like a dollar
842 2011-05-18 06:20:15 <lolcat> horb: bitcoins
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847 2011-05-18 06:23:03 <sacarlson> chmod755: I didn't know ipv4 had multicast I thought that IPV6 was needed, mulicast I would think is the way
848 2011-05-18 06:24:12 <sacarlson> chmod755: but I guess it would be trivial for an ISP or a gov to prevent the activity on a single mulicast channel
849 2011-05-18 06:25:39 <sacarlson> and no one is having problem in windows compile with 'CryptoPP::SHA256::Transform(unsigned int*, unsigned int const*)' yet? must just be me
850 2011-05-18 06:26:01 <Abhish> Wow, what did I click into? Trying to buy a hooker with bitcoin?
851 2011-05-18 06:26:11 AnatolV has joined
852 2011-05-18 06:26:55 traviscj has joined
853 2011-05-18 06:27:50 <sacarlson> Abhish: I sent them all to my #pimps freenode chat
854 2011-05-18 06:28:06 rhett has joined
855 2011-05-18 06:28:13 <sacarlson> to get them the best prices
856 2011-05-18 06:28:18 <rhett> i just joined the bitcoin irc channel on lfnet.org
857 2011-05-18 06:28:22 <rhett> 7000 users
858 2011-05-18 06:28:32 <horb> wow
859 2011-05-18 06:28:32 sc8nt4u has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
860 2011-05-18 06:28:32 <chmod755> rhett: heh
861 2011-05-18 06:28:36 <sacarlson> rhett: wow normaly only 3000
862 2011-05-18 06:28:39 * chmod755 is online
863 2011-05-18 06:28:44 <rhett> so, the idea is, if the government takes that, people just put a new irc address in their clients?
864 2011-05-18 06:29:24 <horb> yeah
865 2011-05-18 06:29:34 <horb> i dont know if you can override in the settings, i assume you can
866 2011-05-18 06:29:56 <sacarlson> rhett: but we have the TOR support if you don't want gov to be watching you
867 2011-05-18 06:30:18 <sacarlson> horb: yes you can by using -connect
868 2011-05-18 06:30:25 <rhett> sacarlson, what do you mean by that? I'm familiar with TOR
869 2011-05-18 06:30:54 <sacarlson> rhett: well if your familiar with it then you don't need me to explain it
870 2011-05-18 06:31:10 <rhett> i don't understan "we have the TOR support"
871 2011-05-18 06:31:39 <midnightmagic> well, BlueMatt, I guess there will now no longer be 21mil coins. There will be 21mil-1 satoshi..
872 2011-05-18 06:32:08 <sacarlson> rhett: tor is a method to evade detection from followers so use TOR to keep your bitcoin anonimos
873 2011-05-18 06:32:38 <rhett> ahhh
874 2011-05-18 06:32:46 <horb> does the client break a tie between block chains by looking at the difficulty level?
875 2011-05-18 06:32:49 <rhett> i wonder how many tor nodes are run by the government
876 2011-05-18 06:33:07 <horb> if there was a split due to a network goin down, youd end up with multiple chains growing at the same rate (1 block / 10 min)
877 2011-05-18 06:33:19 <horb> how does the client tiebreak
878 2011-05-18 06:33:26 dissipate has joined
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883 2011-05-18 06:36:34 <XX01XX> horb... whichever is longer or harder
884 2011-05-18 06:36:46 <sacarlson> horb: irc is just for bootstrap once connected to one node you never need IRC, in fact you already don't need IRC to start with the 320 hardcoded IP in bitcoin
885 2011-05-18 06:37:16 <horb> longer then harder i assume
886 2011-05-18 06:37:38 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
887 2011-05-18 06:37:39 <rhett> bitcoin should save peers to connect to each time it connects
888 2011-05-18 06:37:40 <XX01XX> horb... actually it's agregate difficulty since the split..
889 2011-05-18 06:37:50 <rhett> the client
890 2011-05-18 06:38:03 <rhett> so all the clients have random ones from the same pool
891 2011-05-18 06:38:08 <horb> ahh sacarlson
892 2011-05-18 06:38:13 <rhett> everyone will mostly stay connected to each other
893 2011-05-18 06:38:17 <sacarlson> rhett: it does that to in the db but bootstrap assumes you have no ip in you db yet
894 2011-05-18 06:38:53 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
895 2011-05-18 06:38:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8,"low":6.9799,"vol":33350,"buy":7.1402,"sell":7.2577,"last":7.1401}}
896 2011-05-18 06:39:01 <rhett> what about ports, sacarlson ?
897 2011-05-18 06:39:07 <sacarlson> rhett: and also when you come on you IRC in to provide access to others that might be bootstraping in
898 2011-05-18 06:39:15 <rhett> can the government block the ports it uses?
899 2011-05-18 06:39:28 krekbwoy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
900 2011-05-18 06:39:39 ninjaneo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
901 2011-05-18 06:39:46 <sacarlson> rhett: ports 8333 and 18333 are used for listen by default on main and testnet
902 2011-05-18 06:39:55 <sacarlson> rhett: but can be changed
903 2011-05-18 06:39:57 ninjaneo has joined
904 2011-05-18 06:40:31 <rhett> why not port 80?
905 2011-05-18 06:40:33 <rhett> harder to block
906 2011-05-18 06:40:45 <sacarlson> rhett: you can set it to port 80 if you want with -port
907 2011-05-18 06:40:50 <rhett> i guess a lot of people run port 80 servers
908 2011-05-18 06:41:00 amiller has quit (Quit: Leaving)
909 2011-05-18 06:41:07 <sacarlson> rhett: no most people have web sites on port 80 so use something else
910 2011-05-18 06:41:28 <midnightmagic> http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000004c78956f8643262f3622acf22486b120421f893c0553702ba7b5 <-- BlueMatt thanks for the inspiration.
911 2011-05-18 06:41:29 <rhett> sacarlson, do you work on the code?
912 2011-05-18 06:41:33 amiller has joined
913 2011-05-18 06:42:00 <sacarlson> rhett: yes I have my own version of the code that I work on and help another group called #freecoin
914 2011-05-18 06:42:10 <horb> whats the diff between freecoin and bitcoin
915 2011-05-18 06:42:28 <rhett> sacarlson, are freecoins like bitcoins?
916 2011-05-18 06:43:11 <sacarlson> horb: at present not much difference since it's not finished but my version of what I hope freecoin will help support includes mulit crypto chain support
917 2011-05-18 06:43:39 <da2ce7> the bitcoin site is still not workign for me
918 2011-05-18 06:43:46 <da2ce7> has there been a dns change?
919 2011-05-18 06:43:50 <sacarlson> rhett: freecoin is just another client that will work with bitcoin chains
920 2011-05-18 06:44:07 <horb> interesting
921 2011-05-18 06:44:10 <justmoon> da2ce7: you mean bitcoin.org?
922 2011-05-18 06:44:18 <da2ce7> yeah
923 2011-05-18 06:44:30 <sacarlson> rhett: with new features not yet supported on bitcoin like p2p escrow and other
924 2011-05-18 06:44:32 <justmoon> works for me just fine, hmm
925 2011-05-18 06:44:34 <XX01XX> sacarlson... will it send and recieve arbitrary tokens?
926 2011-05-18 06:44:43 <XX01XX> or just bitcoin?
927 2011-05-18 06:44:48 <justmoon> bitcoin.org has address 216.34.181.97
928 2011-05-18 06:44:54 <sacarlson> XX01XX: I'm not sure what an arbitrary token is
929 2011-05-18 06:45:13 <sacarlson> XX01XX: you can extract the root key to make a token if that's what you mean
930 2011-05-18 06:45:20 <rhett> what ever happened to freenet?
931 2011-05-18 06:45:27 <XX01XX> rhett... still kickin'
932 2011-05-18 06:45:44 <rhett> shouldn't freenet be better than tor?
933 2011-05-18 06:45:49 <sacarlson> rhett: freenet? I have a freenet.surething.biz that I suport
934 2011-05-18 06:45:50 <Raccoon> *BREAKING NEWS* A group of 26 Bit-Miners trapped in a market collapse. Wives and loved ones huddle together and pray for their safe cashout. 1LMsQEKJrpmL24bZoWduq3ZdX7jvzYxJMx
935 2011-05-18 06:46:17 <horb> chilean bitminers
936 2011-05-18 06:46:47 <da2ce7> the bitcoin site is only fucking up if I visit it via https.
937 2011-05-18 06:47:13 <justmoon> da2ce7: ah yeah, https not working for me either
938 2011-05-18 06:47:33 <da2ce7> just thought it was down, as I'm using https everwhere with the bitcoin rules.
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959 2011-05-18 07:08:23 <Abhish> WHy is the bitcoin development seemingly so slow? Is it due to the complexity of the encryptions?
960 2011-05-18 07:09:27 <justmoon> Abhish: I wouldn't call it slow actually, but yeah, more developers who understand the core stuff would be nice
961 2011-05-18 07:09:45 <sacarlson> Abhish: slow? it's too fast for me 2 days after I branch and find a bug it's already has new updates that I have to find new problems in
962 2011-05-18 07:10:40 <jrabbit> http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2011/05/pakistan_fires_on_tw.php
963 2011-05-18 07:10:59 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
964 2011-05-18 07:11:22 <sacarlson> Abhish: many of us like me are just learning
965 2011-05-18 07:13:31 <sacarlson> Abhish: if you feel bitcoin is missing something you want that you didn't tell us about maybe that's why it's so slow
966 2011-05-18 07:14:51 <AntiVigilante> how can I use the gui on debian 64bit?
967 2011-05-18 07:15:12 <AntiVigilante> debian doesn't have wxwidgets 2.9
968 2011-05-18 07:16:34 <amiller> i think the word 'bitcoin' and the word 'mining' are harmful to understanding
969 2011-05-18 07:16:40 krekbwoy has joined
970 2011-05-18 07:16:42 <amiller> because there aren't really any coins themselves
971 2011-05-18 07:16:53 larsivi has joined
972 2011-05-18 07:17:27 datathe1st has joined
973 2011-05-18 07:17:29 <amiller> and because mining doesn't "find coins", it finds lucky winning lotto tickets but gets btc just by convention
974 2011-05-18 07:17:55 Moonies has joined
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980 2011-05-18 07:20:39 <sacarlson> AntiVigilante: no as far as ubuntu for a gui I use the spesmilo gui rpc to drive the latiest bitcoind for ubuntu https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Spesmilo
981 2011-05-18 07:21:40 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
982 2011-05-18 07:21:53 <sacarlson> AntiVigilante: 64bit that's another question I'm not sure of, as soon as I get my windows 32bit version running I plan to package an easy to install ubuntu 10.04 - 11.04 package
983 2011-05-18 07:22:06 Abhish has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
984 2011-05-18 07:24:05 <AntiVigilante> amiller: miners don't find coins they extract prospectors find coins
985 2011-05-18 07:24:25 <amiller> the miners find something of inherent worth though
986 2011-05-18 07:24:37 <AntiVigilante> i bought duapers
987 2011-05-18 07:24:41 <AntiVigilante> er diapers
988 2011-05-18 07:24:45 <AntiVigilante> case closed
989 2011-05-18 07:25:11 <AntiVigilante> currencies run on culture not trade
990 2011-05-18 07:25:29 <amiller> this is just about getting across the concepts of how it works
991 2011-05-18 07:25:40 <amiller> the important thing about miners is that more miners means more strength against colluders
992 2011-05-18 07:26:08 <amiller> i've been using the word "participating" instead of "mining" and i think it's clearer, but i bet there's a more interesting metaphor
993 2011-05-18 07:27:01 <amiller> the 'there are no coins' point is more fundamental
994 2011-05-18 07:28:41 datathe1st has quit (Quit: Leaving)
995 2011-05-18 07:30:59 euclid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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999 2011-05-18 07:34:02 <topi`> but people need some tangible concepts in order to understand such a complex scheme as the bitcoin
1000 2011-05-18 07:34:16 <amiller> yes i agree, but misleading tangible concepts are the worst
1001 2011-05-18 07:34:25 <amiller> 'coins' are tangible concept, and there are no coins anywhere to be found in bitcoin
1002 2011-05-18 07:35:01 <topi`> maybe exchange 'coin' with 'gold'?
1003 2011-05-18 07:35:07 <amiller> but there's no gold either
1004 2011-05-18 07:35:11 <topi`> or something other which is scarce
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1008 2011-05-18 07:35:53 <amiller> i think the best metaphor is an account table
1009 2011-05-18 07:36:01 <amiller> a list of balances for account numbers
1010 2011-05-18 07:36:15 cosurg1 is now known as cosurgi
1011 2011-05-18 07:36:23 <amiller> where the entire network agrees on the 'book', the history of balances and trades
1012 2011-05-18 07:36:33 <Gozalie> guy i flashed my gpu, now I can even get into windows, it started with black screen, how do i revert ?
1013 2011-05-18 07:36:56 <amiller> the block chain is the tangible bit - you can see the whole thing on blockexplorer.com
1014 2011-05-18 07:36:56 <Gozalie> how do i restore my flash to original ? i made a backup
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1016 2011-05-18 07:41:57 <midnightmagic> lol I like that. "Gandhi would use Bitcoins."
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1026 2011-05-18 07:56:36 <topi`> amiller: accounting brings you an image of a centralized office somewhere, and this is far from the truth :)
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1043 2011-05-18 08:19:15 <diki> I want to run pushpool this type of server...how my PCs are currently set up
1044 2011-05-18 08:19:17 <diki> Will it work? http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2821/unledsz.jpg
1045 2011-05-18 08:20:36 <diki> It is interesting though..my english may not be that good...but on this irc server i always miss a word or two....
1046 2011-05-18 08:20:48 jelicknite has joined
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1048 2011-05-18 08:21:53 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|diki: i'd never recommend internet connection sharing
1049 2011-05-18 08:22:06 <diki> well..currently, that is how it is
1050 2011-05-18 08:22:15 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|get a router with a built in switch
1051 2011-05-18 08:22:25 <diki> would my method not work?
1052 2011-05-18 08:22:25 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|plug PC1 + PC2 straight into it
1053 2011-05-18 08:22:33 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|im not saying it won't work
1054 2011-05-18 08:22:36 <diki> well i can't routers are expensive
1055 2011-05-18 08:23:07 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1056 2011-05-18 08:23:12 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|im saying i highly recommend not doing it that way
1057 2011-05-18 08:23:23 <diki> It's been like that since like 2010 feb
1058 2011-05-18 08:23:29 <diki> minus the VM
1059 2011-05-18 08:24:01 Niedar has joined
1060 2011-05-18 08:24:07 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|ok here:
1061 2011-05-18 08:24:12 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|yes it will work
1062 2011-05-18 08:24:22 <diki> anyway....the 5850s are being bought out..i am hearing rumors that not much are left of the 5k series
1063 2011-05-18 08:25:09 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
1064 2011-05-18 08:25:32 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1065 2011-05-18 08:25:32 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|;;bc,mtgox ticker
1066 2011-05-18 08:25:35 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.98,"low":6.9799,"vol":34538,"buy":7.2101,"sell":7.289,"last":7.3197}}
1067 2011-05-18 08:25:36 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.98,"low":6.9799,"vol":34538,"buy":7.2101,"sell":7.289,"last":7.3197}}
1068 2011-05-18 08:25:57 <diki> well...the only thing left to do on PC1 is to forward some ports
1069 2011-05-18 08:26:45 <diki> are there any block files for download, cause the -rescan is taking forever
1070 2011-05-18 08:26:57 <diki> like an archive
1071 2011-05-18 08:27:00 underscor has joined
1072 2011-05-18 08:27:02 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|do ./bitcoind getinfo
1073 2011-05-18 08:27:09 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|see if your block number matches the current one
1074 2011-05-18 08:27:19 <diki> i am currently downloading them
1075 2011-05-18 08:27:28 <diki> i am at 93k on the VM
1076 2011-05-18 08:27:33 <mosi> work!~mos@80.89.82.252|just wait it out
1077 2011-05-18 08:27:47 agricocb has joined
1078 2011-05-18 08:27:48 <diki> i heard a user saying he found an archive of the 120k blocks
1079 2011-05-18 08:27:56 <diki> that would really help
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1101 2011-05-18 08:47:18 <sipa_> sacarlson: yes, it's fixed
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1103 2011-05-18 08:49:25 sipa_ is now known as sipa
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1105 2011-05-18 08:49:56 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
1106 2011-05-18 08:50:06 <midnightmagic> dammit
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1110 2011-05-18 09:04:34 <diki> How do i fix this upstream RPC error???
1111 2011-05-18 09:05:06 euclid has joined
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1115 2011-05-18 09:17:42 <diki> anyone awake lol?
1116 2011-05-18 09:18:13 <sipa> no, sorry
1117 2011-05-18 09:18:36 <diki> Oh hey there sipa. Mind telling me why i get json_rpc_call failed?
1118 2011-05-18 09:18:41 <diki> on pushpool
1119 2011-05-18 09:19:04 <sipa> i don't know pushpool
1120 2011-05-18 09:21:40 euclid has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1121 2011-05-18 09:22:49 <diki> I am always getting that error and i have no idea what is the cause of it
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1123 2011-05-18 09:24:12 espes has quit (Quit: espes)
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1125 2011-05-18 09:27:20 <diki> I am willing to pay someone one bitcoin to tell me how to make it work
1126 2011-05-18 09:27:27 <da2ce7> lol
1127 2011-05-18 09:27:33 <diki> not much since i am saving for a new card
1128 2011-05-18 09:33:24 <Latregetic> what's your setup>
1129 2011-05-18 09:34:34 <Latregetic> your VM should be set up to be on the same subnet as the other PCs, and have no NAT or software firewall between the systems like you can have on some VM hosts
1130 2011-05-18 09:35:52 eao has joined
1131 2011-05-18 09:36:55 euclid has joined
1132 2011-05-18 09:38:18 <diki> i've bridged the VM with my PC2
1133 2011-05-18 09:38:41 <Latregetic> through windows or something?
1134 2011-05-18 09:38:56 <diki> The problem i am getting is from pushpool giving me http request failed. And the miner giving me json_rpc_call failed
1135 2011-05-18 09:39:57 <Latregetic> have you checked if the ports you're using are being forwarded?
1136 2011-05-18 09:40:15 <diki> i am using the miner directly in the VM
1137 2011-05-18 09:40:39 <diki> i am able to connect to push pool via the port. but i am getting HTTP request failed: The requested URL returner error 401
1138 2011-05-18 09:40:58 <diki> i tried the password from my pool_worker table, from the bitcoin.conf file...nothing
1139 2011-05-18 09:42:11 rhett has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1140 2011-05-18 09:42:25 <sipa> 401? unauthorized?
1141 2011-05-18 09:42:30 <diki> yup
1142 2011-05-18 09:42:44 <diki> but user/pass combo is correct
1143 2011-05-18 09:43:06 <Latregetic> regenerate the user/pass
1144 2011-05-18 09:43:11 <Latregetic> and reload the daemon
1145 2011-05-18 09:43:13 <UukGoblin> hmm, I wonder if 1MB limit per block will be enough in future
1146 2011-05-18 09:43:42 <Latregetic> probably not
1147 2011-05-18 09:43:47 <UukGoblin> my rough calculations show that it'll allow only about 350k transactions per day
1148 2011-05-18 09:43:56 <Latregetic> pretty much
1149 2011-05-18 09:44:08 <Latregetic> Which is peanuts compared to some other systems
1150 2011-05-18 09:44:13 <UukGoblin> yeah
1151 2011-05-18 09:44:31 Shadow-Dancer has joined
1152 2011-05-18 09:44:32 <Latregetic> On the plus side, it's probably pretty easy to patch in large block support for the miners
1153 2011-05-18 09:44:48 <UukGoblin> but I heard that >1MB blocks will be rejected by others
1154 2011-05-18 09:44:50 anarchyx has joined
1155 2011-05-18 09:44:56 <UukGoblin> or did I hear that wrong?
1156 2011-05-18 09:45:28 <eps1> i think the plan is to co-ordinate a mass change to the protocol
1157 2011-05-18 09:45:38 <eps1> it will be a good problem to have any way
1158 2011-05-18 09:45:50 <UukGoblin> hm
1159 2011-05-18 09:45:58 <UukGoblin> that has happened in the past once
1160 2011-05-18 09:46:05 <UukGoblin> but back then difficulty was ~20
1161 2011-05-18 09:46:14 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: lol, so good
1162 2011-05-18 09:51:26 <sacarlson> sipa_: ya I should have checked git first, that fixed my irc problem thanks
1163 2011-05-18 09:55:14 <diki> damn....i somehow made it work...
1164 2011-05-18 09:55:24 * diki is finally happy and may die peacefully
1165 2011-05-18 09:55:34 <eps1> diki: it was me that fixed it, 1 BTC please
1166 2011-05-18 09:55:45 <diki> lol
1167 2011-05-18 10:05:15 RenaKunisaki has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1168 2011-05-18 10:08:29 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
1169 2011-05-18 10:08:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124841 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 150 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 14 hours, 40 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 239116.78622054
1170 2011-05-18 10:08:57 <Latregetic> diki: so who gets the bounty?
1171 2011-05-18 10:09:08 <diki> send me your address
1172 2011-05-18 10:09:16 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,bitomat
1173 2011-05-18 10:09:16 <gribble> Error: "bc,bitomat" is not a valid command.
1174 2011-05-18 10:16:09 djoot has quit (Quit: AAA)
1175 2011-05-18 10:18:03 Sedra has joined
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1177 2011-05-18 10:19:33 guiklb has joined
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1179 2011-05-18 10:22:21 Sedra- has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1180 2011-05-18 10:25:00 djoot has quit (Client Quit)
1181 2011-05-18 10:25:09 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 300000
1182 2011-05-18 10:25:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 3 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 3 minutes, and 21 seconds
1183 2011-05-18 10:25:21 biurek has joined
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1185 2011-05-18 10:26:15 biurek has left ()
1186 2011-05-18 10:26:16 djoot has quit (Changing host)
1187 2011-05-18 10:26:16 djoot has joined
1188 2011-05-18 10:27:17 <khalahan_> ;;bc,calc 300000 290
1189 2011-05-18 10:27:18 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
1190 2011-05-18 10:27:42 trekdanne has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1191 2011-05-18 10:35:03 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
1192 2011-05-18 10:35:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124846 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 145 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 14 hours, 10 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 239279.66593398
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1196 2011-05-18 10:36:39 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1197 2011-05-18 10:39:26 <da2ce7> we need to get https back and running on the bitcoin.org website!
1198 2011-05-18 10:39:42 <da2ce7> sirius ^
1199 2011-05-18 10:40:16 Herodes has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1200 2011-05-18 10:41:22 aphelion has joined
1201 2011-05-18 10:44:02 <aphelion> ;;bc,mtgox
1202 2011-05-18 10:44:02 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.98,"low":6.9799,"vol":35298,"buy":7.1601,"sell":7.2,"last":7.1603}}
1203 2011-05-18 10:52:03 danbri has joined
1204 2011-05-18 10:54:41 <euclid> ;;bc,gen 1000000
1205 2011-05-18 10:54:41 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 6.3892054842 BTC per day and 0.266216895175 BTC per hour.
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1222 2011-05-18 11:30:50 noagendamarket has joined
1223 2011-05-18 11:36:39 Speeder has joined
1224 2011-05-18 11:38:17 <Speeder> So.... how we fix the pool oligopoly problem?
1225 2011-05-18 11:40:28 <sipa> by supporting small pools
1226 2011-05-18 11:45:08 <sacarlson> I'm getting this with mingw build in windows XP src/main.cpp:3168: undefined reference to 'CryptoPP::SHA256::Transform(unsigned int*, unsigned int const*)' on git commitish b201c1f60020763b102d259f6346305dd668c7eb can anyone confirm?
1227 2011-05-18 11:45:22 <BlueMatt> NACK
1228 2011-05-18 11:46:00 <sacarlson> BlueMatt is that a code NACK ?
1229 2011-05-18 11:46:14 <roconnor> sipa: If there is no incentive to use small pools, people won't.
1230 2011-05-18 11:46:15 <BlueMatt> aka, nothing wrong with the repo
1231 2011-05-18 11:46:20 <BlueMatt> a problem on your end
1232 2011-05-18 11:46:23 silverwolf has joined
1233 2011-05-18 11:46:27 krekbwoy has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1234 2011-05-18 11:46:38 Sedra- is now known as Sedra
1235 2011-05-18 11:46:55 <sipa> roconnor: unfortunately, pools have a network effect
1236 2011-05-18 11:47:12 <sipa> i.e., its benefits grow as more people use one
1237 2011-05-18 11:47:29 <roconnor> Hence Speeder's worry
1238 2011-05-18 11:47:43 marlowe has joined
1239 2011-05-18 11:48:00 <Speeder> yep
1240 2011-05-18 11:48:15 <Speeder> and all those people can be knocked out of the network by DDoSing the pool operator.
1241 2011-05-18 11:48:35 <sipa> all those people should also be aware of that risk
1242 2011-05-18 11:48:46 <sacarlson> BlueMatt I'll go back one step since it seemed to compile ok in this envirnment with 0c97aa9e141f5c23dc9f80e5fb4c8297d8a6b4dd maybe I changed some envirnment thing I forgot about
1243 2011-05-18 11:48:55 <Speeder> Thus, if someone DDoS deepbit + second place or third place pools (any of them summed with deepbit has more than 50%) you can hijack the network.
1244 2011-05-18 11:49:12 <Speeder> sipa unfortunately, the way that bitcoin has spread, make that do not happen
1245 2011-05-18 11:49:20 <Speeder> yesterday, my sister MENTIONED bitcoin to a friend.
1246 2011-05-18 11:49:41 <sipa> and now he's mining?
1247 2011-05-18 11:49:56 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: nothing of significance changed betwee 0c97aa and b201c1
1248 2011-05-18 11:49:57 <Speeder> 30 minutes later, he was mentioning how he do not understood anything about bitcoin, but he liked his GPU had 285 mhash and that he was going to mine in a pool
1249 2011-05-18 11:50:18 <Speeder> And that is only the most recent example
1250 2011-05-18 11:50:21 <sacarlson> BlueMatt ya just like one line of code so it should break the same if I go back
1251 2011-05-18 11:50:45 <sipa> Speeder: hijacking the network requires a lot more than DDoS'ing some pools - you need to have a large % of the remaining network power
1252 2011-05-18 11:51:04 <sipa> and if pools go down, i don't think it'll take hours before most miners have switches somewhere else
1253 2011-05-18 11:51:09 justmoon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1254 2011-05-18 11:51:09 * roconnor waits for the pool wars to begin.
1255 2011-05-18 11:51:23 <Speeder> Somehow people are not seeing bitcoin as a currency, they are seeing bitcoin as a get rich quick thing.
1256 2011-05-18 11:51:32 <Speeder> sipa they won't switch
1257 2011-05-18 11:51:59 <sipa> sure? i often switch between three pools
1258 2011-05-18 11:52:04 <sipa> if one shows problems
1259 2011-05-18 11:52:11 <Speeder> sipa most miners do not know shit about bitcoin, they are random people, that are clicking "generate" in their clients, and then joining the easiest to join pool with a GPU miner software
1260 2011-05-18 11:52:20 <Speeder> they have no idea HOW to change pools
1261 2011-05-18 11:52:29 <Speeder> (or even what a pool actually do)
1262 2011-05-18 11:52:42 <sipa> if they click 'generate' button, they're likely not to have any significant amount of hash power :D
1263 2011-05-18 11:53:15 <sipa> i wasn't talking about the small miners, but those who do it semi-professionaly, as i assume most of the hash power is there
1264 2011-05-18 11:53:15 <Speeder> sipa they know that, then they ask what they do, and someone explain they need to join a big pool with a GPU miner software
1265 2011-05-18 11:53:27 <Speeder> they follwo a step-by-step tutorial, and then they are locked into a pool
1266 2011-05-18 11:53:30 <Speeder> and they will never leave it
1267 2011-05-18 11:53:42 * sipa doesn't worry
1268 2011-05-18 11:54:02 <Speeder> you are underestimating the power and the stupidity of common people
1269 2011-05-18 11:54:11 <Speeder> you do not realize that we in the forums and irc are actually a elite
1270 2011-05-18 11:54:20 <sipa> sure
1271 2011-05-18 11:55:15 krekbwoy has joined
1272 2011-05-18 11:55:17 <sipa> i do realize that - i'm just saying that in the future, mining will become a more and more specialized business, and as long as the big players in the market (but hopefully those are not too small in number) know what they're doing, there is no problem
1273 2011-05-18 11:56:16 raep3d has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1274 2011-05-18 11:56:41 <Speeder> sipa you only need to DDoS them and have a computer better than all small-players summed
1275 2011-05-18 11:56:52 raep3d has joined
1276 2011-05-18 11:56:59 <Speeder> you do not need a 20 million computer (as someone in the forum estimated), you only need a 1 million one and a DDoS
1277 2011-05-18 11:57:17 <Speeder> that is my worry
1278 2011-05-18 11:57:18 Stellar has quit (Quit: w00t)
1279 2011-05-18 11:57:26 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1282 2011-05-18 11:57:59 <roconnor> Speeder: taking out the large pool doesn't reduce the difficulty though
1283 2011-05-18 11:58:15 <sipa> the difficulty is irrelevant for the security of the network
1284 2011-05-18 11:58:19 <sipa> it is about % of hash power
1285 2011-05-18 11:58:24 <Speeder> roconnor: difficulty does not matter, you only need to mine faster than the real miners
1286 2011-05-18 11:58:33 <noagendamarket> it means you can get more than the remaining power
1287 2011-05-18 11:58:35 <Speeder> if you mine faster, you can cause a block split
1288 2011-05-18 11:58:46 <Blitzboom> >Somehow people are not seeing bitcoin as a currency, they are seeing bitcoin as a get rich quick thing.
1289 2011-05-18 11:58:48 <Blitzboom> this
1290 2011-05-18 11:58:52 <roconnor> Speeder: if you want to undo transactions the difficulty matters
1291 2011-05-18 11:58:57 <Blitzboom> and thatâs why i welcome increasing difficulty
1292 2011-05-18 11:59:01 <sipa> roconnor: no you it doesn't
1293 2011-05-18 11:59:05 <Blitzboom> soon, their ATI GPUs will be useless
1294 2011-05-18 11:59:16 <Blitzboom> unless they have lots of them
1295 2011-05-18 11:59:16 <Speeder> roconnor: you are assuming someone attacking bitcoin will do it for the money
1296 2011-05-18 11:59:17 <sipa> you need to spend more work than what was spent in the branch of the chain you want to revert
1297 2011-05-18 11:59:22 <sipa> that's all
1298 2011-05-18 11:59:31 <sipa> and difficulty does not matter for that, only number of hashes
1299 2011-05-18 11:59:43 <roconnor> sipa: right, and that work depends on the recent difficulty
1300 2011-05-18 11:59:47 <sipa> no
1301 2011-05-18 11:59:50 <sipa> work = number of hashes
1302 2011-05-18 11:59:57 <Speeder> roconnor: if can use a chain split to make the network useless for a while, or untrusworthy, this will make the USD value of BTC plummet as people panic
1303 2011-05-18 11:59:57 <roconnor> I don't get it
1304 2011-05-18 12:00:18 <sipa> roconnor: the branch with the highest amount of summed difficulties wins
1305 2011-05-18 12:00:37 <roconnor> let say the recent difficulty is X
1306 2011-05-18 12:00:37 <Speeder> roconnor: the difficulty affect the speed of everyone.
1307 2011-05-18 12:00:38 <sipa> and sum of difficulties in a chain is proportional to the number of hashes done
1308 2011-05-18 12:00:45 <Speeder> roconnor: if you are still faster, you can still do shit
1309 2011-05-18 12:00:52 <Blitzboom> Speeder: this shit really sets me up
1310 2011-05-18 12:00:53 <roconnor> let's say the last 3 block of the chain are A B C
1311 2011-05-18 12:01:08 <noagendamarket> ddos all the pools and start mining with a data center = profit
1312 2011-05-18 12:01:09 <roconnor> then the total difficulty of the last 3 blocks is about 3X
1313 2011-05-18 12:01:13 <sipa> yes
1314 2011-05-18 12:01:13 <Blitzboom> our network hashrate has been infiltrated with stupidity
1315 2011-05-18 12:01:24 <Speeder> Blitzboom: yep
1316 2011-05-18 12:01:39 <Blitzboom> perhaps mining is TOO decentralized
1317 2011-05-18 12:01:40 <roconnor> if you want to revert those 3 blocks, you need to spend 3X work, and knocking out the big pool won't reduct that amount of work you need to do.
1318 2011-05-18 12:01:44 <Blitzboom> common people should not mine
1319 2011-05-18 12:01:53 <noagendamarket> all the sheep will just join the largest pool
1320 2011-05-18 12:01:59 <sipa> roconnor: the big pool will keep working on chain A B C
1321 2011-05-18 12:02:07 <sipa> roconnor: and you need to "outmine" him
1322 2011-05-18 12:02:09 <Blitzboom> too much decentralization resulting in too much centralization
1323 2011-05-18 12:02:11 <Blitzboom> how ironic
1324 2011-05-18 12:02:17 <sipa> in number of hashes
1325 2011-05-18 12:02:25 <roconnor> sure, but under Speeder's scenrio the big pool is out of commission and isn't mining anymore.
1326 2011-05-18 12:02:31 <noagendamarket> yep
1327 2011-05-18 12:02:41 <sipa> so, it's the % of hash power that matters
1328 2011-05-18 12:02:57 <sipa> if you knock out the big pool, the total hash power decreases, increasing your chance to get 50%
1329 2011-05-18 12:03:02 <noagendamarket> take all the pools away and what does that leave ?
1330 2011-05-18 12:03:07 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1331 2011-05-18 12:03:08 <sipa> but whether or not that influences difficulty is irrelevant
1332 2011-05-18 12:03:28 <roconnor> sipa: yes, but if you get 50% of the network, you still cannot revert A B and C.
1333 2011-05-18 12:03:31 <Blitzboom> canât we just have deepbit ddosed now rather than later?
1334 2011-05-18 12:03:36 <noagendamarket> all that matters is having more hashing power
1335 2011-05-18 12:03:39 <sipa> roconnor: of course you can
1336 2011-05-18 12:03:44 <Speeder> a high difficulty means only the attack will happen slower (it will take 20 minutes instead of 10 to screwup the network)
1337 2011-05-18 12:03:50 <roconnor> sipa: you need to do 3X work
1338 2011-05-18 12:04:10 <sipa> roconnor: and if you have >50% you will after some time have done 3X more work than the rest of the network combined
1339 2011-05-18 12:04:20 <Speeder> roconnor: no need to revert all that, you only need to corrupt something.
1340 2011-05-18 12:04:24 <Speeder> and BTC fails
1341 2011-05-18 12:04:45 <roconnor> Speeder: your scenario is too vague for me to understand fully.
1342 2011-05-18 12:04:56 <Speeder> roconnor: BTC value is based on trust
1343 2011-05-18 12:05:08 <Speeder> if you trust someone will accept BTC, and that person trust you that BTC has value
1344 2011-05-18 12:05:18 <Speeder> if you undermine that trust, BTC value is nothing
1345 2011-05-18 12:05:25 <roconnor> Speeder: you are still being vague
1346 2011-05-18 12:05:34 <noagendamarket> tycho did promise not to take more than 50%
1347 2011-05-18 12:05:39 <molecular> you'd have to be quick, though. people will rather quickly jump pools if you knock the biggest one out
1348 2011-05-18 12:05:40 <roconnor> I want a scenario where some transaction gets reverted
1349 2011-05-18 12:05:44 <roconnor> or something like that
1350 2011-05-18 12:05:45 <Speeder> roconnor: the difference between BTC and fiat money, is that BTC theoretically has no central authority to screwup it
1351 2011-05-18 12:06:25 <Speeder> roconnor: you do not need to revert a transaction, you only need to block transactions.
1352 2011-05-18 12:06:45 <roconnor> okay so your attack is to knock out the big pool
1353 2011-05-18 12:06:52 <roconnor> and then mine but refuse to add transactions.
1354 2011-05-18 12:07:00 <Speeder> yep.
1355 2011-05-18 12:07:01 <roconnor> keeping out all transactions.
1356 2011-05-18 12:07:03 <roconnor> ok
1357 2011-05-18 12:07:04 <roconnor> thx
1358 2011-05-18 12:07:11 <spitteler> roconnor an example of a "reverted transaction" would be double spending... ie.. you have 1 BTC in you wallet and pay 2 addresses 1 BTC... whichever is added to the block chain FIRST is valid, and the other Invalid
1359 2011-05-18 12:07:17 <Speeder> what you think will happen when people realize their money is in limbo?
1360 2011-05-18 12:07:34 <roconnor> yes, this is a fair attackish.
1361 2011-05-18 12:07:37 <Speeder> they will plainly freak out
1362 2011-05-18 12:07:40 <spitteler> Speeder is talking about SPLITING the blockchain, but having more then 50% of Hash power (if all pools are down)
1363 2011-05-18 12:08:26 <roconnor> Speeder: thanks
1364 2011-05-18 12:08:40 Marcel has joined
1365 2011-05-18 12:08:43 <sipa> the double spending attack means causing an intentional long split, and than causing the network to switch from one chain to the other, after you've done a spending in the first
1366 2011-05-18 12:08:45 <Speeder> spitteler: I think most people ahve no idea of what happen when you split the blockchain and create yours
1367 2011-05-18 12:10:43 <noagendamarket> if it happens its all over
1368 2011-05-18 12:10:43 <sipa> roconnor: do you agree now that difficulty is irrelevant?
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1377 2011-05-18 12:16:56 <Niedar> Couldnt the mining clients be made to use backup pools or even solo mine automatically if a pool goes down? I think that could help out a lot
1378 2011-05-18 12:17:42 <noagendamarket> can that be coded into the clients ?
1379 2011-05-18 12:18:11 <mtrlt> i think someone was working on a mining proxy that did just that
1380 2011-05-18 12:18:19 <spitteler> Niedar, if you run 2 instances of Poclbm (1 GPU) you will give 50% to each pool
1381 2011-05-18 12:18:26 <sipa> you still need accounts on multiple pools
1382 2011-05-18 12:18:38 <mtrlt> sipa: of course.
1383 2011-05-18 12:18:41 <spitteler> if 1 pool goes down, then the other poclbm will instance will increase
1384 2011-05-18 12:19:28 <Niedar> Well yeah but im sure it could be built into clients eventually to automatically solo mine also if pools go down
1385 2011-05-18 12:19:42 <Niedar> to just switch over
1386 2011-05-18 12:19:47 <mtrlt> Niedar: that is not necessary, a mining proxy can do that
1387 2011-05-18 12:19:58 <mtrlt> you just point your miners to the proxy and bam
1388 2011-05-18 12:19:59 <mtrlt> :P
1389 2011-05-18 12:20:27 <Niedar> arent we talking about people that arent that technical though ?
1390 2011-05-18 12:20:47 <mtrlt> they need to get technical, then
1391 2011-05-18 12:21:00 <mtrlt> imo.
1392 2011-05-18 12:21:47 <Speeder> mtrlt: that is a nonreply
1393 2011-05-18 12:21:57 <Speeder> it is like saying that you need dumb people to be not dumb
1394 2011-05-18 12:22:07 <Speeder> or to say that a dog need to be a cat
1395 2011-05-18 12:22:08 <mtrlt> :(
1396 2011-05-18 12:22:36 <Speeder> it is like: oh, our pets cannot reach that toy, they need to jump higher.
1397 2011-05-18 12:22:50 <Speeder> and someone reply: turn them into cats (instead of saying: make the toy lower)
1398 2011-05-18 12:23:09 <mtrlt> :/
1399 2011-05-18 12:25:07 danbri has quit (Changing host)
1400 2011-05-18 12:25:07 danbri has joined
1401 2011-05-18 12:27:23 <Blitzboom> Speeder: youâre right
1402 2011-05-18 12:27:37 <Blitzboom> once people realize bitoin is vulnerable, they will probably never come to trust it again
1403 2011-05-18 12:27:39 <Blitzboom> most people
1404 2011-05-18 12:28:24 <Diablo-D3> [08:16:00] <Speeder> or to say that a dog need to be a cat
1405 2011-05-18 12:28:31 <Diablo-D3> actually I solve problems that way all the time
1406 2011-05-18 12:28:35 <Diablo-D3> right tool for the right job
1407 2011-05-18 12:29:21 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1408 2011-05-18 12:29:54 agricocb has joined
1409 2011-05-18 12:30:00 <Speeder> Diablo-D3: except people are not tools ;)
1410 2011-05-18 12:30:13 <Blitzboom> people are worse than tools
1411 2011-05-18 12:30:22 <Diablo-D3> Speeder: dude, Ive known a LOT of tools
1412 2011-05-18 12:31:10 <Blitzboom> noagendamarket: what will tycho do once deepbit has 50%?
1413 2011-05-18 12:31:17 <Blitzboom> to prevent it from gainig more
1414 2011-05-18 12:31:20 <Speeder> erm
1415 2011-05-18 12:31:37 <Speeder> Diablo-D3: what is tool?
1416 2011-05-18 12:31:52 <Diablo-D3> Speeder: a "tool" is someone whos a fucking douchebag
1417 2011-05-18 12:31:53 eternal1 has joined
1418 2011-05-18 12:32:12 <Speeder> tool is something that allow a a actor do a action
1419 2011-05-18 12:32:23 <spitteler> wtf how did they go from 300 to 800 GHash so quickly
1420 2011-05-18 12:32:24 <Speeder> the tool must fit both the actor, and the action
1421 2011-05-18 12:32:30 <mtrlt> Speeder: tool also means a dumb person
1422 2011-05-18 12:32:37 <Speeder> you cannot change the actor, or the action.
1423 2011-05-18 12:32:42 <Blitzboom> ;;bc,stats
1424 2011-05-18 12:32:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124871 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 120 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 11 hours, 38 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 240210.49716268
1425 2011-05-18 12:32:44 <noagendamarket> Blitzboom lets hope we dont find out
1426 2011-05-18 12:32:44 <noagendamarket> he did promise not to do that
1427 2011-05-18 12:32:55 <Diablo-D3> spitteler: deepbit?
1428 2011-05-18 12:33:03 <noagendamarket> probably he would have to prevent signups
1429 2011-05-18 12:33:14 <Blitzboom> that wouldnât do anything
1430 2011-05-18 12:33:25 <Blitzboom> you can just add more hashpower to existing accounts
1431 2011-05-18 12:33:31 <Speeder> we need to both deepbit and slush raise their fees
1432 2011-05-18 12:33:40 <mtrlt> why slush
1433 2011-05-18 12:33:40 <Blitzboom> no, slush is fine atm
1434 2011-05-18 12:33:42 <noagendamarket> yeah that might help too
1435 2011-05-18 12:33:43 <mtrlt> he has barely 300GHps
1436 2011-05-18 12:33:44 <Blitzboom> but deepbit is too big
1437 2011-05-18 12:33:47 <spitteler> Diablo: yes, deepbit is 800 GHash from 300 in a week or so
1438 2011-05-18 12:33:49 <Speeder> but that is a only a very short term solution
1439 2011-05-18 12:33:49 RBecker has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1440 2011-05-18 12:33:58 <Speeder> Blitzboom: slush has 1/3 of the network
1441 2011-05-18 12:34:06 <mtrlt> no he doesn't
1442 2011-05-18 12:34:11 <noagendamarket> we need to invest in asic
1443 2011-05-18 12:34:14 <mtrlt> unluess the situation changed in the last hour
1444 2011-05-18 12:34:15 <Speeder> what we REALLY need, is educate people
1445 2011-05-18 12:34:18 RBecker has joined
1446 2011-05-18 12:34:21 <Speeder> and figure HOW they are reaching the mining conclusion
1447 2011-05-18 12:34:23 guibw has joined
1448 2011-05-18 12:34:25 <Blitzboom> noagendamarket: we need a community-driven mining op on GLBSE
1449 2011-05-18 12:34:25 <spitteler> 17 May 2011
1450 2011-05-18 12:34:25 <spitteler> >800 Gh/s
1451 2011-05-18 12:34:29 <mtrlt> he doesn't even have one sixth
1452 2011-05-18 12:34:31 <Speeder> somehow as people read about bitcoin, they find out about mining
1453 2011-05-18 12:34:32 <spitteler> from his website
1454 2011-05-18 12:34:38 <Blitzboom> noagendamarket: with specialized hardware
1455 2011-05-18 12:34:39 <noagendamarket> Blitzboom yes
1456 2011-05-18 12:34:41 <Speeder> we need them to favour investing and using bitcoin, not mining
1457 2011-05-18 12:34:49 <Diablo-D3> gheh
1458 2011-05-18 12:34:52 Nicksasa has joined
1459 2011-05-18 12:34:53 <Diablo-D3> I need to get my miner software done
1460 2011-05-18 12:35:17 <Blitzboom> noagendamarket: have you read http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8543.0
1461 2011-05-18 12:35:30 <noagendamarket> It would take a bit to do
1462 2011-05-18 12:35:38 <Blitzboom> doesnât matter. think longterm
1463 2011-05-18 12:37:13 soossii has joined
1464 2011-05-18 12:37:48 <Diablo-D3> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2559887
1465 2011-05-18 12:37:51 <noagendamarket> well lets go for it
1466 2011-05-18 12:38:10 guiklb has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1467 2011-05-18 12:38:15 <noagendamarket> I know where it could be hosted
1468 2011-05-18 12:38:31 <Blitzboom> where?
1469 2011-05-18 12:39:14 <noagendamarket> It wouldnt be wise to tell people the exact location lol
1470 2011-05-18 12:39:25 <Blitzboom> country i mean
1471 2011-05-18 12:39:31 <noagendamarket> that brings with it certain risks
1472 2011-05-18 12:39:41 <Blitzboom> yeah, i understand
1473 2011-05-18 12:42:06 <noagendamarket> Lets just say I have a track record with putting that together
1474 2011-05-18 12:42:39 sethsethseth has joined
1475 2011-05-18 12:42:47 <Blitzboom> what we need: guy who knows his custom hardware shit and is willing to put up such a community venture
1476 2011-05-18 12:43:00 sethsethseth__ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1477 2011-05-18 12:43:42 <Speeder> ok
1478 2011-05-18 12:43:45 <Speeder> found how people find about mining
1479 2011-05-18 12:43:55 <Speeder> someone just randomly mentioned he started mining bitcoins
1480 2011-05-18 12:43:56 <Blitzboom> in forums like OCN i suppose
1481 2011-05-18 12:43:59 sethsethseth___ has joined
1482 2011-05-18 12:44:00 <Speeder> (after I mentioned I bought them)
1483 2011-05-18 12:44:04 <Speeder> I asked how he found about mining
1484 2011-05-18 12:44:08 <Blitzboom> people who have no fucking clue what bitcoin is
1485 2011-05-18 12:44:14 <Speeder> he said only that he saw the video on front page and the nfollowed links
1486 2011-05-18 12:44:14 <Blitzboom> they just sell them for dollars
1487 2011-05-18 12:44:32 <Speeder> we need thus to revamp the bitcoin frontpage to hide info about mining
1488 2011-05-18 12:44:41 <Speeder> and focus on trading and business
1489 2011-05-18 12:44:53 <Blitzboom> what video? we use coins?
1490 2011-05-18 12:45:14 rtulio has joined
1491 2011-05-18 12:45:18 echelon has joined
1492 2011-05-18 12:46:19 <Speeder> bitcoin.org
1493 2011-05-18 12:46:30 <Speeder> somehow bitcoin.org is leeading to people think bitcoin is about mining
1494 2011-05-18 12:46:39 <Speeder> we need to make hard to reach mining info from bitcoin.org
1495 2011-05-18 12:46:40 <Blitzboom> thereâs nothing about mining there
1496 2011-05-18 12:46:47 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1497 2011-05-18 12:46:52 <Speeder> there are a link to the wiki, at least
1498 2011-05-18 12:46:54 ezl has joined
1499 2011-05-18 12:47:07 <Speeder> and the video mentions mining briefly
1500 2011-05-18 12:47:33 <Blitzboom> yes, perhaps this is a mistake ⦠you donât have to know where bitcoins come from
1501 2011-05-18 12:47:38 <Blitzboom> people as stupid as this donât have to
1502 2011-05-18 12:47:40 <sipa> too bad that weusecoins presents it as that anyone can do it, or that there are no fees
1503 2011-05-18 12:47:53 gsathya has quit (Quit: gsathya)
1504 2011-05-18 12:48:14 <sipa> maybe it should rather say that everyone's allowed to join in on the mining business, but that it is very difficult or so
1505 2011-05-18 12:48:31 <Blitzboom> http://www.weusecoins.com/mining-guide.php
1506 2011-05-18 12:48:39 <Blitzboom> itâs better illustrated here
1507 2011-05-18 12:48:52 <Blitzboom> "Most Bitcoin users don't mine! Bitcoin mining is a business and very competitive"
1508 2011-05-18 12:49:28 <sipa> ok, that's very good
1509 2011-05-18 12:49:29 <Blitzboom> anyway ⦠i believe in the short term things will change as difficulty catches up to the rally
1510 2011-05-18 12:49:41 <Blitzboom> my gpu is still way too profitable, seriously
1511 2011-05-18 12:50:01 <Blitzboom> 2 BTC a day at 7$/BTC
1512 2011-05-18 12:50:08 <BlueMatt> sipa: any guesses as to why an int in memory is different in a thread then before pthread_create is called (from CreateThread)
1513 2011-05-18 12:50:22 <sipa> BlueMatt: context?
1514 2011-05-18 12:50:39 <BlueMatt> (int*)parg is the same in the thread and in CreateThread, but in the thread *((int*)parg) is different than what it was in CreateThread
1515 2011-05-18 12:51:00 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Ehud Ben-Reuven * r34fb1fe866a5 iOSApp/BitCoin/ (RPCDataSource.m whatsnew.html): Console: Show date (and not seconds from 1970) for fields that ends with "time" http://tinyurl.com/3bnql5d
1516 2011-05-18 12:51:01 <BlueMatt> (passing an int as an arg to a thread)
1517 2011-05-18 12:51:02 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Ehud Ben-Reuven * r4ccea3917fbc iOSApp/BitCoin/ (SendViewController.m whatsnew.html): Send: any fractional value can be used http://tinyurl.com/44sphow
1518 2011-05-18 12:51:06 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Ehud Ben-Reuven * r8fb8f27dcbba iOSApp/BitCoin/ (BitCoin-Info.plist license.html): 1.0.8 http://tinyurl.com/634yq9l
1519 2011-05-18 12:51:30 <sipa> BlueMatt: where in the code?
1520 2011-05-18 12:51:38 <BlueMatt> something Im adding
1521 2011-05-18 12:51:47 <BlueMatt> called from rpc.cpp
1522 2011-05-18 12:52:00 <sipa> can i see it?
1523 2011-05-18 12:52:40 <BlueMatt> uh, well its the pull request branch, but I suppose I can temporarily upload all my debug printf's there
1524 2011-05-18 12:52:54 riush has joined
1525 2011-05-18 12:53:04 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/232/files
1526 2011-05-18 12:53:05 <sipa> i don't need to debugs, just the code :)
1527 2011-05-18 12:53:14 <BlueMatt> look in rpc.cpp, util.h
1528 2011-05-18 12:53:21 gates has joined
1529 2011-05-18 12:53:22 <BlueMatt> just cntl-f printf ;)
1530 2011-05-18 12:53:35 <luke-jr> it's "Ctrl"
1531 2011-05-18 12:53:38 <sipa> BlueMatt: got it
1532 2011-05-18 12:53:46 <sipa> nSleepTime is allocated on the stack
1533 2011-05-18 12:53:59 <sipa> and disappears as soon as walletpassword returns
1534 2011-05-18 12:54:01 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: CoNTroL or ConTRoL, same thing
1535 2011-05-18 12:54:04 Nes-asleep is now known as Nesetalis
1536 2011-05-18 12:54:11 <BlueMatt> sipa: ah, stupid me
1537 2011-05-18 12:54:37 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: except one is a standard abbreviation
1538 2011-05-18 12:54:48 <BlueMatt> and I care about standards because...?
1539 2011-05-18 12:55:01 <sipa> the nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
1540 2011-05-18 12:55:19 <sipa> BlueMatt, i'd say: int* pnSleepTime = new int(params[1].get_int());
1541 2011-05-18 12:55:29 <sipa> and pass pnSleepTime instead of &nSleepTime
1542 2011-05-18 12:55:38 bkraptor has joined
1543 2011-05-18 12:55:41 <BlueMatt> ah, ok yea that sounds right, thanks
1544 2011-05-18 12:55:46 * BlueMatt is still such a C++ noob
1545 2011-05-18 12:55:56 <sipa> and have the ThreadCleanWalletPassword function delete its argument before returning
1546 2011-05-18 12:57:03 <noagendamarket> Can we get the weusecoins guys to make another video saying how hard it is to mine ?
1547 2011-05-18 12:57:12 <jrmithdobbs> haha
1548 2011-05-18 12:57:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, thanks pushed...look good?
1549 2011-05-18 12:57:20 <noagendamarket> Im serious
1550 2011-05-18 12:57:38 <noagendamarket> target one to mining specifically
1551 2011-05-18 12:57:48 <jrmithdobbs> i'm waiting for the first news story that goes like this, tbqh: "Bitcoins cause apartment electrical fires."
1552 2011-05-18 12:57:52 <noagendamarket> there are lots of misunderstandings about it
1553 2011-05-18 12:58:27 <noagendamarket> I mean they still have the majority of the bounty from the first movie lol
1554 2011-05-18 12:58:54 <Speeder> we need a new weusecoins video
1555 2011-05-18 12:59:03 WakiMiko has joined
1556 2011-05-18 12:59:09 <Speeder> that explains more about business and less about technicals
1557 2011-05-18 12:59:19 <Speeder> the first video was good to bootstrap the network
1558 2011-05-18 12:59:24 <Speeder> now the network is solid, we lack business
1559 2011-05-18 12:59:42 <Speeder> we need a video that make people go: OMG, I WILL GET RICH SELLING STUFF FOR BTC!
1560 2011-05-18 13:00:13 <sipa> BlueMatt: why not just sleep nSleepTime?
1561 2011-05-18 13:00:16 soossii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1562 2011-05-18 13:00:20 <sipa> instead of waking up every second
1563 2011-05-18 13:00:57 <BlueMatt> sipa: so if the user opens 20 threads, only the longest timeout one will be the one which cleans the wallet
1564 2011-05-18 13:01:21 jeremias has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1565 2011-05-18 13:01:50 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1566 2011-05-18 13:03:29 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1567 2011-05-18 13:03:37 <jrmithdobbs> Speeder: i think we need better payment gateway apis before that's helpful tbqh
1568 2011-05-18 13:03:45 <jrmithdobbs> or am I missing some code somewhere?
1569 2011-05-18 13:06:01 <sipa> BlueMatt: so, void ThreadCleanWalletPassword(int *parg) { int nMyWakeTime = *parg + time(); static int nWakeTime = 0; if (nWakeTime == 0 || nMyWakeTime > nWakeTime) nWakeTime = nMyWakeTime; Sleep(*parg); if (nWakeTime && nWakeTime <= nMyWakeTime) { nWakeTime = 0; cleanup...(); } }
1570 2011-05-18 13:06:18 <sipa> maybe a cs for nWakeTime as well
1571 2011-05-18 13:06:49 danbri has joined
1572 2011-05-18 13:07:34 <BlueMatt> or that...
1573 2011-05-18 13:07:35 <Speeder> jrmithdobbs: mybitcoin is a start
1574 2011-05-18 13:07:40 <Speeder> but indeed, we need something easy as paypal
1575 2011-05-18 13:07:53 <Speeder> paypal success comes solely from how easy is to pay stuff with it
1576 2011-05-18 13:08:08 <Speeder> in fact, even the name of paypal makes that clear
1577 2011-05-18 13:08:23 <Speeder> paypal is about paying (not about getting paid, this is why it suck for people getting paid...)
1578 2011-05-18 13:08:47 soconfusedmp has joined
1579 2011-05-18 13:09:29 <jrmithdobbs> Speeder: aye
1580 2011-05-18 13:09:40 <sipa> BlueMatt: ideally, you have one always-active thread, that waits until a certain time passes, wakes up, checks whether it is still necessary, and goes to sleep again
1581 2011-05-18 13:09:54 diki has joined
1582 2011-05-18 13:09:54 <BlueMatt> meh, that is too complicated
1583 2011-05-18 13:09:56 <diki> much bette
1584 2011-05-18 13:09:58 <diki> *r
1585 2011-05-18 13:10:19 <sipa> BlueMatt: please, don't create a thread that wakes up every second
1586 2011-05-18 13:10:31 <BlueMatt> no, no, Ill do the first suggestion
1587 2011-05-18 13:10:40 <luke-jr> let's start a rumour that MyBitcoin keeps a fractional reserve, in order to force the owner to come out of hiding
1588 2011-05-18 13:10:41 <BlueMatt> but 1 constant-running thread is too much work, and no gain
1589 2011-05-18 13:10:44 <sipa> my second suggestion is even easier
1590 2011-05-18 13:10:58 <BlueMatt> not really
1591 2011-05-18 13:12:19 <jrmithdobbs> Speeder: does mybitcoin have any competitors yet? I'm not finding any
1592 2011-05-18 13:12:37 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I think xf2.org soon, if not already
1593 2011-05-18 13:12:38 <Speeder> jrmithdobbs: mtgox also has merchant API
1594 2011-05-18 13:13:12 <jrmithdobbs> k, just don't want merchant stuff to end up like pools where there's one HUGE one and a bunch of tiny ones
1595 2011-05-18 13:17:09 <sipa> BlueMatt: http://hpaste.org/46792/threadcleanuppassword
1596 2011-05-18 13:17:26 <BlueMatt> oh come on, I just finished writing taht
1597 2011-05-18 13:17:28 <BlueMatt> that*
1598 2011-05-18 13:18:01 <sipa> it's the one-thread version
1599 2011-05-18 13:18:19 <BlueMatt> meh, I prefer the multi-thread version...less resources if you dont have any threads
1600 2011-05-18 13:18:36 <sipa> ... this is also only one when there is one needed
1601 2011-05-18 13:18:53 <BlueMatt> fine
1602 2011-05-18 13:19:30 <sipa> sorry, i did't mean to do what you're working on, just show that's it's possible
1603 2011-05-18 13:20:56 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1604 2011-05-18 13:21:13 <BlueMatt> no, I didnt doubt that...just being lazy
1605 2011-05-18 13:21:22 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i think sipas right on this one though, it should get it's own thread
1606 2011-05-18 13:21:47 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: that wasnt the debate, it was its own thread vs. open new thread each time
1607 2011-05-18 13:21:53 <BlueMatt> no doubt hes right though
1608 2011-05-18 13:22:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: the idea is just: check whether a thread is already running (condition: nWakeupTime != 0), if so, update how long it should wait, and exit, otherwise, wait
1609 2011-05-18 13:22:33 <BlueMatt> no, I get it...as I said, I was just being lazy
1610 2011-05-18 13:22:36 gsathya has joined
1611 2011-05-18 13:22:36 <sipa> ok ;)
1612 2011-05-18 13:22:51 blueadept has joined
1613 2011-05-18 13:29:56 <BlueMatt> ok, new question why the fuck will boost not let my call Sleep(anything) with an Assertion false failed?
1614 2011-05-18 13:30:23 <sipa> hmm?
1615 2011-05-18 13:30:26 <Diablo-D3> because boost sucks
1616 2011-05-18 13:31:29 <BlueMatt> if you look at current version, somewhere between rpc.cpp:1348 and rpc.cpp:1350, boost dies with an assertion false failed
1617 2011-05-18 13:31:39 <BlueMatt> same happens if I just change the sleep to any random number
1618 2011-05-18 13:32:13 <BlueMatt> bitcoin: /usr/include/boost/variant/detail/visitation_impl.hpp:203: typename Visitor::result_type boost::detail::variant::visitation_impl(int, int, Visitor&, VPCV, mpl_::true_, NBF, W*, S*) [with W = mpl_::int_<20>, S = boost::detail::variant::visitation_impl_step<boost::mpl::l_iter<boost::mpl::l_end>, boost::mpl::l_iter<boost::mpl::l_end> >, Visitor = boost::detail::variant::copy_into, VPCV = const void*, NBF = boost::variant<std::basic_string
1619 2011-05-18 13:32:13 <BlueMatt> <char>, boost::recursive_wrapper<std::vector<json_spirit::Pair_impl<json_spirit::Config_vector<std::basic_string<char> > >, std::allocator<json_spirit::Pair_impl<json_spirit::Config_vector<std::basic_string<char> > > > > >, boost::recursive_wrapper<std::vector<json_spirit::Value_impl<json_spirit::Config_vector<std::basic_string<char> > >, std::allocator<json_spirit::Value_impl<json_spirit::Config_vector<std::basic_string<char> > > > > >, bool,
1620 2011-05-18 13:32:14 <BlueMatt> long int, double, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::void_, boost::detail::variant::voi
1621 2011-05-18 13:32:19 <BlueMatt> d_>::has_fallback_type_, typename Visitor::result_type = void, mpl_::true_ = mpl_::bool_<true>]: Assertion `false' failed.
1622 2011-05-18 13:32:23 <jlewis> pastebin that shit
1623 2011-05-18 13:32:24 <BlueMatt> ...yea, most unreadable error ever
1624 2011-05-18 13:32:50 <BlueMatt> sorry
1625 2011-05-18 13:32:53 <jlewis> :)
1626 2011-05-18 13:32:55 <BlueMatt> it was shorter on the cli
1627 2011-05-18 13:32:56 <da2ce7> anyone have exprence in designing IPC proticols?
1628 2011-05-18 13:32:59 <BlueMatt> well, it looked shorter
1629 2011-05-18 13:34:04 <jlewis> so its in the CRITICAL_BLOCK?
1630 2011-05-18 13:34:32 <sipa> BlueMatt: which line is the error?
1631 2011-05-18 13:34:40 <sipa> your paste does not tell
1632 2011-05-18 13:34:44 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/232/files#diff-13
1633 2011-05-18 13:34:51 <BlueMatt> scroll down to rpc.cpp:1349
1634 2011-05-18 13:34:58 <BlueMatt> it happens between the printf's
1635 2011-05-18 13:35:02 <sipa> (and boost compile errors are very unreadable...)
1636 2011-05-18 13:35:07 <roconnor> sipa: difficulty still means you cannot revert transactions before the attack, but once you have 50% of the network then you are limited to attacks that affect the chain after you've gained that control.
1637 2011-05-18 13:35:25 <sipa> eh, no
1638 2011-05-18 13:35:34 DukeOfURL has joined
1639 2011-05-18 13:35:34 <sipa> once you have >50% you can revert anything
1640 2011-05-18 13:35:42 <sipa> and i still don't see what difficulty has to do with it
1641 2011-05-18 13:36:11 <roconnor> let's say you start with 5% of the network capability
1642 2011-05-18 13:36:33 <roconnor> then using a DDOS attack or something you knock out 90% of the mining network
1643 2011-05-18 13:36:47 <jrmithdobbs> roconnor: or just ddos deepbit
1644 2011-05-18 13:36:48 <roconnor> now you have 50% of the remaining network capability
1645 2011-05-18 13:36:49 <sipa> let's make that 94%
1646 2011-05-18 13:36:50 <jlewis> BlueMatt: your patch dooesn't compile without GUI support btw
1647 2011-05-18 13:36:58 <roconnor> okay
1648 2011-05-18 13:37:00 <sipa> so you have >80%
1649 2011-05-18 13:37:03 <roconnor> right
1650 2011-05-18 13:37:18 <BlueMatt> jlewis: Id like to get it working w/ gui first ;)
1651 2011-05-18 13:37:25 <jlewis> fair
1652 2011-05-18 13:37:30 <jlewis> i just can't test without :)
1653 2011-05-18 13:37:33 <sipa> roconnor: and assume the network's power doesn't grow further, and the pools don't recover
1654 2011-05-18 13:37:40 <roconnor> but to rever the last 3 changes before your attack will take 3 * 10 * 10 minutes.
1655 2011-05-18 13:37:45 <BlueMatt> this random you can't Sleep boost error makes no sense though...
1656 2011-05-18 13:37:52 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1657 2011-05-18 13:38:02 <roconnor> sorry
1658 2011-05-18 13:38:03 molecular has joined
1659 2011-05-18 13:38:07 <roconnor> but to rever the last 3 changes before your attack will take 3 * 10 * 20 minutes.
1660 2011-05-18 13:38:14 <jlewis> BlueMatt: https://gist.github.com/978565 just fyi
1661 2011-05-18 13:38:19 <sipa> roconnor: exactly
1662 2011-05-18 13:38:22 <roconnor> 3 blocks * 10 minutes per block * 20 times slower hashing speed.
1663 2011-05-18 13:38:31 <sipa> yes, that's correct
1664 2011-05-18 13:39:02 <roconnor> oh good
1665 2011-05-18 13:39:10 <sipa> actually, more, since during that time, the network will probably have found another block
1666 2011-05-18 13:39:14 <sipa> which you also need to revert
1667 2011-05-18 13:39:18 <jrmithdobbs> roconnor: it really is harder than the numbers initially make it look
1668 2011-05-18 13:39:18 <BlueMatt> jlewis: oops, I went back to fix a mingw compile error this morning and didnt read half the code...
1669 2011-05-18 13:39:18 <jrmithdobbs> heh
1670 2011-05-18 13:39:45 <XX01XX> Natty Narwhal is so screwed up
1671 2011-05-18 13:39:48 <roconnor> sipa: a little longer, but here you control 80% now, so not too much longer I guess.
1672 2011-05-18 13:39:56 <sipa> indeed, marginally more
1673 2011-05-18 13:40:03 omglolbbq1 has joined
1674 2011-05-18 13:40:18 <BlueMatt> jlewis: should be good now
1675 2011-05-18 13:40:30 <omglolbbq1> whats currently the fastest single GPU to mine with?
1676 2011-05-18 13:40:45 Akinava has quit (Quit: УÑ
Ð¾Ð¶Ñ Ñ Ð¾Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ)
1677 2011-05-18 13:40:47 <roconnor> sipa: okay I guess I do agree it is possible, but it will still take a long time to revert a lot of blocks
1678 2011-05-18 13:40:55 <sipa> of course
1679 2011-05-18 13:41:26 <sipa> it's a lot harder to revert things in the past, but once you can hold >50% for arbitrarily long time, it is possible
1680 2011-05-18 13:41:27 creconmedia has joined
1681 2011-05-18 13:41:44 <creconmedia> Hello
1682 2011-05-18 13:41:51 <BlueMatt> hi
1683 2011-05-18 13:42:10 <directhex> omglolbbq1, the fastest radeon, clocked up as high as you can handle without flames
1684 2011-05-18 13:42:14 <creconmedia> can anyone help me out, i have a few dummy questions on bitcoin...
1685 2011-05-18 13:42:26 <sipa> creconmedia: don't ask to ask, just ask
1686 2011-05-18 13:42:50 <sipa> omglolbbq1: 5870 or 6970
1687 2011-05-18 13:42:53 <omglolbbq1> directhex, the 6990 series is fastest right? but 5970 mines faster if i didnt get it wrong
1688 2011-05-18 13:43:04 <sipa> 6990 and 5970 are dual-GPU
1689 2011-05-18 13:43:21 <directhex> omglolbbq1, if you're going by the numbers on the mining hardware wiki page, remember many of those cards are overclocked
1690 2011-05-18 13:43:22 <creconmedia> I just discovered bitcoin, so i wanted to ask, where does it say how much bitcoins i have if i own some... like where is my "bitcoin bank account"?
1691 2011-05-18 13:43:30 <jrmithdobbs> 6990 is slower than 2x6970
1692 2011-05-18 13:43:31 <sipa> on your computer
1693 2011-05-18 13:43:40 <jlewis> BlueMatt: how do you trigger the assertion failure?
1694 2011-05-18 13:43:41 <jrmithdobbs> because of pcie spec power limits
1695 2011-05-18 13:43:54 <sipa> creconmedia: the bitcoin client keeps a wallet.dat file on your computer, with private keys to your addresses
1696 2011-05-18 13:43:57 <BlueMatt> jlewis: just call walletpassword pass time via rpc
1697 2011-05-18 13:43:59 <omglolbbq1> i only have a single pcie slot anyways so xD
1698 2011-05-18 13:44:14 <sipa> creconmedia: if you have that file, you're able to spend whatever balance those addresses have
1699 2011-05-18 13:44:27 <blueadept> how is a bitcoin address generated?
1700 2011-05-18 13:44:33 <roconnor> creconmedia: the p2p network knows everyone's balances more or less, and your bitcoin client can join that network and query it to find out your balance, more or less.
1701 2011-05-18 13:44:44 <sipa> blueadept: it's a hash of a public key
1702 2011-05-18 13:44:56 <creconmedia> ok, got it... so its included in the bicoi program, right?
1703 2011-05-18 13:44:58 <sipa> the corresponding private keys of which you need to send a transaction
1704 2011-05-18 13:45:00 <blueadept> ah, so anyone can just generate one?
1705 2011-05-18 13:45:03 quup has quit (Quit: smartiie)
1706 2011-05-18 13:45:15 <sipa> your client will automatically generate a bunch of them, actually
1707 2011-05-18 13:45:16 <directhex> blueadept, it's normal to have lots of addresses
1708 2011-05-18 13:45:37 <blueadept> but could i create a valid address seperate from the client?
1709 2011-05-18 13:45:40 <roconnor> creconmedia: ya, my bitcoin client currently says for me: Balance: 0.00 :D
1710 2011-05-18 13:45:53 <sipa> blueadept: in theory, yes
1711 2011-05-18 13:45:54 <creconmedia> where can i views that?
1712 2011-05-18 13:45:59 <XX01XX> roconnor... eh...
1713 2011-05-18 13:46:15 <XX01XX> roconnnor... to the bit faucet!
1714 2011-05-18 13:46:25 <roconnor> blueadept: you can create address without even internet access.
1715 2011-05-18 13:46:49 <roconnor> XX01XX: I have lots of testnet bitcoins, so I'm happy enough for now.
1716 2011-05-18 13:46:52 <roconnor> :P
1717 2011-05-18 13:46:56 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1718 2011-05-18 13:46:58 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124891 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 100 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 38 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 241350.65034591
1719 2011-05-18 13:46:58 <jlewis> BlueMatt: it segfaults for me
1720 2011-05-18 13:47:16 <jlewis> i'll gdb it
1721 2011-05-18 13:47:24 <BlueMatt> jlewis: hm, odd that I dont get...segfaults where?
1722 2011-05-18 13:47:33 <da2ce7> tcatm, your site isn't stable anymore.
1723 2011-05-18 13:47:34 <XX01XX> The block chain knows what address is currently associated with what bitcoin... it doesn't know who holds what address
1724 2011-05-18 13:47:38 <jlewis> segfaults don't tell you where they happen :P i'm gdbing it
1725 2011-05-18 13:48:19 <MagicalTux> for info the new mtgox has a system similar than blockexplorer.com that will allow mtgox to track its addresses as they are really, and will allow mtgox to issue addresses that can be used on pools
1726 2011-05-18 13:48:47 <jlewis> https://gist.github.com/978581
1727 2011-05-18 13:48:48 <MagicalTux> (it's late, I'm tired, and I write broken english, time to sleep soon!)
1728 2011-05-18 13:49:02 <creconmedia> what if i have two computers, or even three? will anyone have its own walletfile with different balances?
1729 2011-05-18 13:49:22 <tcatm> da2ce7: working on it. unfortunately, all I have is a slow GPRS connection so I can't do much.
1730 2011-05-18 13:49:36 <sipa> creconmedia: typically
1731 2011-05-18 13:49:37 <UukGoblin> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Alternative_Chains <- this is soo wrong
1732 2011-05-18 13:50:09 <roconnor> creconmedia: in theory you could share the wallet information between computers. I don't know if this can be done with the client right now.
1733 2011-05-18 13:50:29 <sipa> you will be able to, but now it's kinda hard
1734 2011-05-18 13:50:52 <creconmedia> so if I buy 500 bitcoins on my laptop, throw the laptop into the sea i lost my money, is that right?
1735 2011-05-18 13:51:00 <XX01XX> Is there a tool to merge wallet.dat files?
1736 2011-05-18 13:51:10 <Niedar> if you didnt back it up
1737 2011-05-18 13:51:10 <XX01XX> creconmedia... pretty much
1738 2011-05-18 13:51:13 <sipa> XX01XX: i have a patch that allows you to
1739 2011-05-18 13:51:17 <sipa> it's not yet merged though
1740 2011-05-18 13:51:22 <sipa> nor tested enough
1741 2011-05-18 13:51:25 <BlueMatt> jlewis: huh? I dont think anything I did should have effected that debug.log print... I suppose that must be on the bitcoin -server?
1742 2011-05-18 13:51:42 <BlueMatt> also, dont run the crypto stuff on your regular wallet until its pulled ;)
1743 2011-05-18 13:51:48 ezl has joined
1744 2011-05-18 13:52:02 <jlewis> its not my regular wallet
1745 2011-05-18 13:52:07 <jlewis> and that's not debug.log... it's gdb
1746 2011-05-18 13:52:19 <jlewis> and yes it's the bitcoin server
1747 2011-05-18 13:52:24 <BlueMatt> no, the line it segfaults on is printf() which goes to debug.log
1748 2011-05-18 13:52:33 <omglolbbq1> how much bytes does a transaction take up in a block?
1749 2011-05-18 13:52:53 <sipa> around 1/4 KiB
1750 2011-05-18 13:53:02 <XX01XX> omglolbbq1... varies depending on the transaction... but small.
1751 2011-05-18 13:53:22 <BlueMatt> oh wait, Im on the wrong branch
1752 2011-05-18 13:53:23 <sipa> betweeb 130 bytes and a few kilobytes
1753 2011-05-18 13:53:26 <jlewis> BlueMatt: no its not
1754 2011-05-18 13:53:31 <omglolbbq1> won't that be a problem if bitcoin becomes a huge internet currency?
1755 2011-05-18 13:53:39 <jlewis> BlueMatt: its because yoou dont return a value from walletpassword, i think
1756 2011-05-18 13:53:40 underscor has joined
1757 2011-05-18 13:53:44 <XX01XX> omglolbbq1... yes
1758 2011-05-18 13:53:52 <BlueMatt> ah, yes that would also make sense...
1759 2011-05-18 13:53:54 <jlewis> hehe
1760 2011-05-18 13:54:02 <XX01XX> I think the current plan is "It will be fixed later"
1761 2011-05-18 13:54:05 <jlewis> same for walletpasswordchange
1762 2011-05-18 13:54:09 <BlueMatt> damn trying to update other things at the same time...
1763 2011-05-18 13:54:12 <omglolbbq1> lol, nice plan xD
1764 2011-05-18 13:54:13 <sipa> XX01XX: which problem?
1765 2011-05-18 13:54:21 <XX01XX> sipa... scaling
1766 2011-05-18 13:54:37 <sipa> read https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability
1767 2011-05-18 13:54:57 <BlueMatt> jlewis: better?
1768 2011-05-18 13:55:11 <creconmedia> this is intresting, so now i installed bitcoin on my mac and pressed -> generate coins -> is my computer going to make money now? :-)
1769 2011-05-18 13:55:28 <sipa> creconmedia: yes, but so slowly that you'll probably never see a coin
1770 2011-05-18 13:55:31 <gates> 1 coin = 5 years
1771 2011-05-18 13:55:49 <sipa> mining is mostly done by high-end graphic cards now, which are much faster than normal cpu's
1772 2011-05-18 13:56:39 <creconmedia> ah.... so this is like a algorithm to makes sure to increase the amount of bitcoins around to match the number of users using bitcoin?
1773 2011-05-18 13:56:42 <jlewis> BlueMatt: no segfaults or assertion failures now
1774 2011-05-18 13:57:06 <BlueMatt> jlewis: alright, let me go check it agin in a sec...it might have just been another facepalm on my part
1775 2011-05-18 13:57:19 glassresistor has joined
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1777 2011-05-18 13:57:19 glassresistor has joined
1778 2011-05-18 13:57:40 <sipa> creconmedia: no
1779 2011-05-18 13:57:53 <sipa> the introduction rate of bitcoin is predefined and fixed
1780 2011-05-18 13:58:35 <creconmedia> so whats the purpose of my computer creating coins?
1781 2011-05-18 13:59:20 <BlueMatt> yay, 3rd translation update to latest git :)
1782 2011-05-18 13:59:22 <directhex> creconmedia, the "generate coins" option in the standard client is broadly useless
1783 2011-05-18 13:59:28 <sipa> creconmedia: http://www.weusecoins.com/mining-guide.php
1784 2011-05-18 13:59:57 <sipa> creconmedia: the purpose is finding blocks, which is necessary for the network and its security
1785 2011-05-18 14:00:16 <sipa> as reward you get 50 BTC for each block you find - a way for initially introducing the currency
1786 2011-05-18 14:00:27 <creconmedia> ahhhh....!
1787 2011-05-18 14:00:33 <sipa> but the more computational power you have, the more you'll find
1788 2011-05-18 14:00:37 <sipa> so it's a business really
1789 2011-05-18 14:00:56 <sipa> people investing in hardware, hoping that it'll gain them more in bitcoin than what the electricity and hardware cost
1790 2011-05-18 14:01:17 <sipa> with a normal CPU, it's not worth it
1791 2011-05-18 14:01:40 TD has joined
1792 2011-05-18 14:02:30 <creconmedia> Is a block like a bug sipa?
1793 2011-05-18 14:02:48 <directhex> i bought a GPU for my wife's new PC early, so i can leave it in *my* PC mining while we're away on holiday. with any luck it should have paid for itself by the time we get back
1794 2011-05-18 14:03:06 <directhex> then i can buy the rest of her PC, having subsidized a top-end GPU
1795 2011-05-18 14:03:28 <sipa> creconmedia: read the wiki or satoshi's paper if you're interested in the details - it's a bit much to explain here
1796 2011-05-18 14:03:31 raep3d is now known as therap1st
1797 2011-05-18 14:04:00 <BlueMatt> lol raped is now known as therapist
1798 2011-05-18 14:04:04 <BlueMatt> or the rapist...
1799 2011-05-18 14:04:25 <creconmedia> Ok, will read it. Thanks!
1800 2011-05-18 14:04:27 <therap1st> people are having ideas all the time
1801 2011-05-18 14:04:29 <therap1st> i dont get it
1802 2011-05-18 14:04:30 <BlueMatt> never noticed that, therapist == the...rapist
1803 2011-05-18 14:05:09 <UukGoblin> is CBlock::CheckBlock() from main.cpp being called for each downloaded block? if not, what is?
1804 2011-05-18 14:05:24 <XX01XX> creconmedia... when you "generate coins" or "mine" you gather up outstanding transactions and hash them. You're trying to find a hash below a specific length. If you find that hash, you submit your block of transactions (with hash) to the network. Assuming the network finds it good, you get paid your 50BTC for doing the computational work.
1805 2011-05-18 14:05:31 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
1806 2011-05-18 14:06:40 <XX01XX> Blue takes the "the" out of psychotherapist
1807 2011-05-18 14:07:32 <BlueMatt> ok, ThreadCleanWalletPassword finally works
1808 2011-05-18 14:07:39 <BlueMatt> now to focus on 0.3.22rc builds
1809 2011-05-18 14:08:56 trekdanne has joined
1810 2011-05-18 14:11:17 soossii has joined
1811 2011-05-18 14:12:09 <BlueMatt> damn, I now have 6 pull requests...
1812 2011-05-18 14:13:14 barf has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1816 2011-05-18 14:15:52 gates has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1817 2011-05-18 14:17:47 <sipa> BlueMatt: my mistake, after doing the actual cleanup, you need to reset nWakeupTime to 0
1818 2011-05-18 14:18:01 <sipa> actually, no, before
1819 2011-05-18 14:19:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: did it already ;)
1820 2011-05-18 14:19:48 <sipa> ok, nice!
1821 2011-05-18 14:20:38 <TD> what is the wallet password protection for, again ?
1822 2011-05-18 14:20:48 <BlueMatt> TD: its the encryption key
1823 2011-05-18 14:21:06 <BlueMatt> ok, Im gonna remove the whole WALLET_PASSPHRASE environment variable crap, that was a bad idea from the start
1824 2011-05-18 14:21:21 <UukGoblin> http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=2358.0 <- this burns coins, doesn't it?
1825 2011-05-18 14:21:40 AStove has joined
1826 2011-05-18 14:21:48 <TD> bluematt: yeah, i meant, what problem is it solving? i might be trolling
1827 2011-05-18 14:22:05 <TD> but i never really understood what this solves which isn't already solved by disk encryption
1828 2011-05-18 14:22:05 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1829 2011-05-18 14:22:18 <sipa> TD: user-friendlyness :)
1830 2011-05-18 14:22:20 <jrmithdobbs> TD: ease of use for users
1831 2011-05-18 14:22:24 <sipa> UukGoblin: yes
1832 2011-05-18 14:22:28 <TD> maybe the case where you back up to some non-encrypted media
1833 2011-05-18 14:22:29 skeledrew1 has joined
1834 2011-05-18 14:22:41 <BlueMatt> TD: it solves the, store key in memory constantly stuff...eg a server which runs bitcoind might get compromised, but if it doesnt have any keys unencrypted, it cant spend
1835 2011-05-18 14:22:51 <TD> ah
1836 2011-05-18 14:22:54 <TD> right
1837 2011-05-18 14:22:55 <BlueMatt> though it is more user-friendly to ask for password at startup and never bother agin
1838 2011-05-18 14:22:59 <BlueMatt> again*
1839 2011-05-18 14:23:03 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1840 2011-05-18 14:23:13 <sipa> BlueMatt: will you be able to choose in the gui how long to retain the key?
1841 2011-05-18 14:23:16 <UukGoblin> need some sort of patch to bitcoind to forge a transaction that sends a fee to the miner instead of burning coins ;-]
1842 2011-05-18 14:23:34 <BlueMatt> sipa: not atm, you could do that if you wanted, but I dont see any huge advantage...?
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1844 2011-05-18 14:23:52 <sipa> BlueMatt: what will the behaviour be then, just ask for each payment?
1845 2011-05-18 14:23:54 soconfusedmp has joined
1846 2011-05-18 14:23:59 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes
1847 2011-05-18 14:24:06 <sipa> ok, good
1848 2011-05-18 14:24:08 <TD> BlueMatt: so a server without access to the private keys is useful for ... ??
1849 2011-05-18 14:24:14 <BlueMatt> if the user needs to send a ton, its slow in gui anyway
1850 2011-05-18 14:24:21 <sipa> TD: monitoring your wallet :)
1851 2011-05-18 14:24:25 <BlueMatt> TD: ...any merchant?
1852 2011-05-18 14:24:28 <jrmithdobbs> TD: the whole thing is basically worthless if running bitcoind
1853 2011-05-18 14:24:34 <BlueMatt> it can still receive and such
1854 2011-05-18 14:24:40 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: quite the opposite
1855 2011-05-18 14:24:46 <TD> can you create new addresses this way?
1856 2011-05-18 14:24:47 <TD> i guess you can right
1857 2011-05-18 14:24:53 <TD> the wallet private key is encrypted with the passphrase
1858 2011-05-18 14:24:54 <BlueMatt> TD: have to have the password
1859 2011-05-18 14:24:55 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: explain
1860 2011-05-18 14:25:03 <BlueMatt> in fact, the whole thing is pretty much worthless in gui, on bitcoind its better
1861 2011-05-18 14:25:15 <TD> newly generated private keys can be encrypted under the public key matching the passphrase-generated private key
1862 2011-05-18 14:25:19 <BlueMatt> TD: I went away from that suggestion because noone came up with a good solution for keypool-padding
1863 2011-05-18 14:25:33 <TD> bluematt: merchants have to create addresses for every transaction though. so it'd need the key all the time
1864 2011-05-18 14:25:34 <BlueMatt> ie attacker fills your keypool with their addresses
1865 2011-05-18 14:25:38 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: it will prompt for password for rpc calls that trigger a send?
1866 2011-05-18 14:25:58 <BlueMatt> TD: you can manually tell it to fill they keypool to 10 billion keys... should last a while
1867 2011-05-18 14:26:16 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: it will just say "please enter password via walletpassword before calling this command"
1868 2011-05-18 14:26:21 <jrmithdobbs> also, wtf is that patch that looks for spends by other copies of your wallet, that get merged yet?
1869 2011-05-18 14:26:25 <BlueMatt> then walletpassword stores key in memory for x seconds
1870 2011-05-18 14:26:33 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: yes
1871 2011-05-18 14:26:33 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: what about on generation?
1872 2011-05-18 14:26:45 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: it either uses keypool addr or defaultaddr
1873 2011-05-18 14:26:53 <BlueMatt> you can fill keypool if you want a new key each time
1874 2011-05-18 14:27:02 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: was it 3.21 or newer? think i need to rebuild my os x client
1875 2011-05-18 14:27:04 <TD> ah, right
1876 2011-05-18 14:27:07 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: 0.3.21
1877 2011-05-18 14:27:08 <TD> good point. you can create many keys in advance.
1878 2011-05-18 14:27:22 <BlueMatt> TD: it adds a fillkeypool RPC call as well
1879 2011-05-18 14:27:27 <TD> nice
1880 2011-05-18 14:27:28 <BlueMatt> or what did I call it?
1881 2011-05-18 14:27:35 <BlueMatt> topupkeypool
1882 2011-05-18 14:27:40 <TD> ok, that makes more sense to me now. i was thinking only about the GUI/end user case. thanks for the explanation.
1883 2011-05-18 14:27:53 Clarence has joined
1884 2011-05-18 14:28:01 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: oh nm, the os x client was lagging on version last i upgraded it, no wonder it's not doing what i expected ;P
1885 2011-05-18 14:28:08 <BlueMatt> yea for end-user it honestly doesnt make much sense, but IMHO its better to do it this way than just decrypt at startup and leave it in memory
1886 2011-05-18 14:28:10 <jrmithdobbs> heh
1887 2011-05-18 14:28:23 <BlueMatt> esp for users who leave bitcoin running in the background 24/7
1888 2011-05-18 14:28:26 <sipa> it's definitely safer to decrypt only when you need it
1889 2011-05-18 14:28:26 pop has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1890 2011-05-18 14:28:43 <BlueMatt> yea, but in most cases not by much...
1891 2011-05-18 14:28:52 <sipa> indeed
1892 2011-05-18 14:28:56 <BlueMatt> (for gui)
1893 2011-05-18 14:29:00 <sipa> but security is all about those special cases :)
1894 2011-05-18 14:29:08 <BlueMatt> for a properly setup merchant, it is much, much better to do it this way
1895 2011-05-18 14:29:11 <TD> i don't think anyone has a good solution for using bitcoin in cases where there might be malware yet
1896 2011-05-18 14:29:17 <TD> that said, many US banks fall into the same category!
1897 2011-05-18 14:29:20 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: so for non-generation sends the idea (bitcoind assupmtion) is: bitcoind walletpassword <password>; bitcoind sendtoaddress <stuff>; ?
1898 2011-05-18 14:29:28 <BlueMatt> yea
1899 2011-05-18 14:29:40 <BlueMatt> well bitcoind walletpassword <password> <time to keep password in memory>
1900 2011-05-18 14:29:42 <BlueMatt> ...
1901 2011-05-18 14:29:53 mos has joined
1902 2011-05-18 14:30:03 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: can you fix it so password is the last option and optional?
1903 2011-05-18 14:30:16 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: and if not provided is prompted for with tty echo off
1904 2011-05-18 14:30:29 <jrmithdobbs> pointless to use if the password is all over your shell history.
1905 2011-05-18 14:30:33 <BlueMatt> yea, that needs thought about
1906 2011-05-18 14:30:48 <jrmithdobbs> and listable in the process table by anyone while the rpc client is running
1907 2011-05-18 14:30:48 <sipa> i'd say an error code that indicates "need wallet pass" to the json client
1908 2011-05-18 14:30:52 <BlueMatt> " bitcoind..." makes it not appear in history
1909 2011-05-18 14:31:00 <sipa> and if so, have the default json client somehow acquire the password
1910 2011-05-18 14:31:10 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: uh how?
1911 2011-05-18 14:31:12 <sipa> either command-line based, but only if stdin is connected to a terminal
1912 2011-05-18 14:31:22 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: prefix with a space
1913 2011-05-18 14:31:29 <BlueMatt> still a valid point for other reasons though
1914 2011-05-18 14:31:41 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: ya that doesn't address listable process tableon the rpc client
1915 2011-05-18 14:31:49 <sipa> indeed
1916 2011-05-18 14:31:50 <jrmithdobbs> rpc client host
1917 2011-05-18 14:31:50 mos has quit (work!~mos@217.22.80.86|Client Quit)
1918 2011-05-18 14:31:53 <BlueMatt> yep
1919 2011-05-18 14:32:16 <sipa> maybe a --walletkeyfile <filename> and/or a --walletpassphrase <passphrase>
1920 2011-05-18 14:32:25 <BlueMatt> care to write it?
1921 2011-05-18 14:32:50 <jrmithdobbs> does your implementation currently allow for something like LUKS where you can have multiple keys/passphrases?
1922 2011-05-18 14:32:58 <jrmithdobbs> to unlock same wallet
1923 2011-05-18 14:32:59 <BlueMatt> though gavin offered to write a python client which handles password entry like that if its not a huge deal (which IMHO its not)
1924 2011-05-18 14:33:05 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: no
1925 2011-05-18 14:33:14 <jrmithdobbs> hmm
1926 2011-05-18 14:33:38 mosi has quit (work!~mos@80.89.82.252|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1927 2011-05-18 14:33:43 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: just thinking about business/merchant use cases
1928 2011-05-18 14:34:08 <BlueMatt> IMHO if someone has access to your system to be looking at ps aux and such, they can probably get more access to get your pass file or memory dump bitcoind when rpc is called and such
1929 2011-05-18 14:34:10 <sipa> nothing prevents you from having a keyfile, encrypted with gpg with multiple recipients
1930 2011-05-18 14:34:21 <BlueMatt> in any case, the password shouldnt be entered on the server except the initial load
1931 2011-05-18 14:34:55 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: these are mostly devil's advocate type questions
1932 2011-05-18 14:34:56 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
1933 2011-05-18 14:35:20 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: no, by all means keep asking...its good to make sure I thought of fringe cases like these
1934 2011-05-18 14:35:34 <BlueMatt> but what sipa said answers it best IMHO, better to use something like that
1935 2011-05-18 14:35:43 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: ya but one of the recips go rogue you can't just revoke
1936 2011-05-18 14:36:29 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: anything in place for changing the key atm?
1937 2011-05-18 14:36:55 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: yep, doable via rpc or gui
1938 2011-05-18 14:37:24 <jrmithdobbs> well, i guess there's the pull 220 and re-encrypt option too
1939 2011-05-18 14:37:58 <BlueMatt> import/export needs looked at to see if/where/when it conflicts
1940 2011-05-18 14:38:12 <jrmithdobbs> I think having to burn the entire key, regen, and resend to multiple gpg recips is kind of cumbersome
1941 2011-05-18 14:38:20 <BlueMatt> Im sure it does somewhere and/or it could be made to work better with import
1942 2011-05-18 14:38:27 <jrmithdobbs> for something that *is* going to be an issue at some point for some people
1943 2011-05-18 14:38:47 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: you dont have to do it via gpg, there are other such algos for multi-user encryption
1944 2011-05-18 14:38:58 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: right but the process stays the same
1945 2011-05-18 14:38:58 <BlueMatt> with x/y users have to sign and such
1946 2011-05-18 14:39:05 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: if you have to burn the entire key
1947 2011-05-18 14:39:18 <BlueMatt> well I dont see how to fix that in bitcoin or anywhere else
1948 2011-05-18 14:39:27 <sipa> BlueMatt: somehow i'd prefer having the wallet export always be the real keys, so that you know that when an export was made, you have a backup
1949 2011-05-18 14:39:35 <jrmithdobbs> like luks does, multiple slots for keys that can be revoked individually
1950 2011-05-18 14:39:36 <sipa> maybe optionally encrypt the export as well
1951 2011-05-18 14:39:38 <UukGoblin> TD, in the Alternative Chains page, are you seriously suggesting an alternative blockchain can be used to implement file storage?
1952 2011-05-18 14:39:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: hm, I prefer to see my exported keys be the encrypted ones
1953 2011-05-18 14:39:58 <BlueMatt> but it should be user-configurable IMHO
1954 2011-05-18 14:40:09 B0g4r7 has joined
1955 2011-05-18 14:40:11 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i agree, export/dumpwallet is for garunteed usable backups
1956 2011-05-18 14:40:20 <sipa> could use a separate json key of course
1957 2011-05-18 14:40:20 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: well you can use an existing luks file encryption system
1958 2011-05-18 14:40:23 Juffo-Wup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1959 2011-05-18 14:40:24 <jrmithdobbs> which includes "guy who knows the passphrase got hit by a bus"
1960 2011-05-18 14:40:26 <sacarlson> for some reason I can get the new bitcoin git to compile if you use the older version of the Cryptopp lib
1961 2011-05-18 14:40:27 <TD> UukGoblin: it wouldn't be a very good use for the algorithm, but you could do it if you wanted.
1962 2011-05-18 14:40:31 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1963 2011-05-18 14:40:36 <UukGoblin> TD, my point exactly
1964 2011-05-18 14:40:53 <UukGoblin> there are much better ways of doing p2p file storage
1965 2011-05-18 14:41:29 mosi has joined
1966 2011-05-18 14:41:34 <sipa> i haven't published the export format spec yet, but private keys are now under the json key "sec", maybe an option can be included that uses eg. "esec" instead if the privkey is encrypted
1967 2011-05-18 14:41:36 Moonies has joined
1968 2011-05-18 14:41:53 <UukGoblin> imho, DNS can be simply implemented using a file storage system + timestamping paid for in btc
1969 2011-05-18 14:42:01 <UukGoblin> a bitcoin payment is a timestamp
1970 2011-05-18 14:42:16 <jrmithdobbs> i think dnscoin is a horrible idea thought up by people that haven't had to run large internet dns systems tbqh
1971 2011-05-18 14:42:26 <jrmithdobbs> namecoin, whatever
1972 2011-05-18 14:43:14 <jrmithdobbs> i get what it's trying to solve
1973 2011-05-18 14:43:17 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, I agree namecoin is wrong, but dns-paid-by-bitcoins isn't
1974 2011-05-18 14:43:21 <jrmithdobbs> and it's admirable
1975 2011-05-18 14:43:32 <jrmithdobbs> but it's not going to scale
1976 2011-05-18 14:44:17 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: you mean doing something similar to namecoin in an alt block chain instead of an alt p2p network?
1977 2011-05-18 14:44:41 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, nah, I think an alt block chain is not required at all
1978 2011-05-18 14:44:52 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: ok, now you have me intrigued ;P
1979 2011-05-18 14:44:57 <UukGoblin> bitcoin's blockchain is better suited for the purpose
1980 2011-05-18 14:46:27 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, check this: http://privwiki.dreamhosters.com/wiki/Bitcoin_DNS_System_Proposal
1981 2011-05-18 14:47:19 creconmedia has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1982 2011-05-18 14:48:13 Juffo-Wup has joined
1983 2011-05-18 14:48:46 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: before i read that, is it being proposed that basically the soa and ns records would be stored in bitcoin and then lean on normal dns systems?
1984 2011-05-18 14:49:20 <jrmithdobbs> because doing resolution over the p2p sendtoall seems awful
1985 2011-05-18 14:49:31 Wizzard has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1986 2011-05-18 14:49:52 <sipa> i don't think anyone ever proposed using the bitcoin network as a lookup service?
1987 2011-05-18 14:49:57 galaxyAbstractor has joined
1988 2011-05-18 14:50:21 <sipa> just several proposals for using the bitcoin blockchain or alternative chains as authorative data sources for domain names
1989 2011-05-18 14:50:40 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1990 2011-05-18 14:50:52 <jrmithdobbs> so shifting '.' to bitcoin instead of the real root, basically
1991 2011-05-18 14:51:07 jivvz has joined
1992 2011-05-18 14:51:22 Moonies has quit (Quit: quack)
1993 2011-05-18 14:51:53 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, I didn't read it in detail, but I believe something like that, yes
1994 2011-05-18 14:52:19 <UukGoblin> lookups over the blockchain would be weird indeed
1995 2011-05-18 14:52:22 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: no they're storing resource records in the blockchain
1996 2011-05-18 14:52:28 <jrmithdobbs> that is a Bad Thing(tm) imho
1997 2011-05-18 14:52:32 <B0g4r7> It seems like that could be implemented without altering the existing protocol.
1998 2011-05-18 14:52:40 <UukGoblin> I would just store SOA and NS indeed.
1999 2011-05-18 14:52:51 * TD sighs
2000 2011-05-18 14:52:53 <TD> let's move on people ....
2001 2011-05-18 14:52:56 <B0g4r7> Just "sign against" some data that's in the chain.
2002 2011-05-18 14:53:04 <UukGoblin> mhm
2003 2011-05-18 14:53:06 <diki> so one last time...will the new difficulty make my pooled mining harder? i.e will i earn less?
2004 2011-05-18 14:53:08 <UukGoblin> what I'd like to see
2005 2011-05-18 14:53:12 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
2006 2011-05-18 14:53:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124904 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 87 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 8 hours, 24 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 241604.26213449
2007 2011-05-18 14:53:14 <jrmithdobbs> but even in the case of just storing NS/SOA you come back to the whole thing that has prevented a cooperative root for 30 years
2008 2011-05-18 14:53:31 <B0g4r7> diki: higher difficulty means lower mining yields, so yes.
2009 2011-05-18 14:53:32 <mtrlt> diki: of course.
2010 2011-05-18 14:53:32 <jrmithdobbs> how do you bootstrap onto the bitcoin p2p to find . without dns in the first place
2011 2011-05-18 14:53:34 <sipa> diki: 8 hours, 24 minutes
2012 2011-05-18 14:53:41 <UukGoblin> is a patch that basically allows for easy sending of a transaction with in: 0.01 out: 0.00 <somedata>
2013 2011-05-18 14:53:49 <UukGoblin> and then I'll be happy and I'll shut up ;-]
2014 2011-05-18 14:53:57 <diki> wouldnt that mean, that eventually, even people with dual 5970s wouldnt be able to keep up?
2015 2011-05-18 14:54:05 <mtrlt> diki: probably yes
2016 2011-05-18 14:54:06 <da2ce7> http://www.bitcoinplus.com/
2017 2011-05-18 14:54:09 <da2ce7> lol
2018 2011-05-18 14:54:11 <jrmithdobbs> diki: yes. that's the point
2019 2011-05-18 14:54:13 <diki> and how do we counter that?
2020 2011-05-18 14:54:19 <mtrlt> diki: make an asic farm
2021 2011-05-18 14:54:19 <jrmithdobbs> you don't
2022 2011-05-18 14:54:20 <mtrlt> :P
2023 2011-05-18 14:54:24 <mtrlt> costs a bit but.
2024 2011-05-18 14:54:26 <UukGoblin> (well I might keep talking about the 1MB block size limit being too small)
2025 2011-05-18 14:54:27 <diki> which is expensive
2026 2011-05-18 14:54:38 <B0g4r7> diki: Continually buying newer and better and more mining hardware.
2027 2011-05-18 14:54:39 <diki> only rich people will have access to bitcoin then..
2028 2011-05-18 14:54:42 <mtrlt> gpu mining is still far from being unprofitable.
2029 2011-05-18 14:54:45 <jrmithdobbs> diki: no
2030 2011-05-18 14:54:52 <mtrlt> diki: how so? mining is not the only way to get bitcoins
2031 2011-05-18 14:54:54 <B0g4r7> It's all a race against the competition (other miners)
2032 2011-05-18 14:54:56 <jrmithdobbs> diki: bitcoin was never meant to be free money, this is a bubble
2033 2011-05-18 14:55:02 <diki> Buying new hardware, sure. Buying more...not so much
2034 2011-05-18 14:55:14 <da2ce7> bitcoin is like investing in a company... it may go up or down
2035 2011-05-18 14:55:14 <sipa> diki: mining is not for everyone
2036 2011-05-18 14:55:16 <jrmithdobbs> diki: bitcoin is meant to be used as currency not just for mining + speculation
2037 2011-05-18 14:55:19 <sipa> it is for those who choose to
2038 2011-05-18 14:55:28 <sipa> that doesn't preclude anyone else from buying it
2039 2011-05-18 14:55:39 <sipa> for most, that will be a lot cheaper than generating it
2040 2011-05-18 14:55:43 Guest17311 has joined
2041 2011-05-18 14:55:54 <da2ce7> sipa, what are you focused on atm?
2042 2011-05-18 14:56:00 <B0g4r7> The more power ppl put towards mining the more difficulty will increase.
2043 2011-05-18 14:56:08 <B0g4r7> If ppl lose interest and stop mining, difficulty will go down.
2044 2011-05-18 14:56:11 <diki> so what....in one year...i will probably earn like 0.05 and less bitcoins with two 5850s?
2045 2011-05-18 14:56:18 <sipa> diki: maybe
2046 2011-05-18 14:56:20 <mtrlt> diki: who knows
2047 2011-05-18 14:56:21 <B0g4r7> It's hard to predict.
2048 2011-05-18 14:56:21 <sipa> we don't know
2049 2011-05-18 14:56:30 <sipa> and if that's the case, i'll be very happy
2050 2011-05-18 14:56:35 <Guest17311> Anybody familiar with Bitcoiner for Android?
2051 2011-05-18 14:56:38 <diki> How so?
2052 2011-05-18 14:56:43 <sipa> because that will mean the network is very secure
2053 2011-05-18 14:56:43 <mtrlt> yep it'd mean that bitcoin has succeeded
2054 2011-05-18 14:56:44 <mtrlt> :P
2055 2011-05-18 14:57:02 <nanotube> UukGoblin: someone already sent out a tx, with a bunch of 0 outputs, and an ascii-encoded bitcoin logo in the op checksigs :)
2056 2011-05-18 14:57:07 <diki> Succeeded in being a currency which people ready to give 50k for mining hardware
2057 2011-05-18 14:57:07 <B0g4r7> Diificulty has gone don before.
2058 2011-05-18 14:57:15 <UukGoblin> nanotube, liiink ;-]
2059 2011-05-18 14:57:16 <diki> can only access
2060 2011-05-18 14:57:18 <B0g4r7> $50k
2061 2011-05-18 14:57:27 <B0g4r7> (an important distinction)
2062 2011-05-18 14:57:32 <jrmithdobbs> diki: ya you're not getting it
2063 2011-05-18 14:57:36 <da2ce7> sipa... I'm wondering what your thoughts on this are: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8379.0
2064 2011-05-18 14:57:50 <diki> The price of bitcoin could go up...no one said it will
2065 2011-05-18 14:57:53 <jrmithdobbs> diki: it is a currency like any other. you will probably trade another currency for it just like usd -> yen
2066 2011-05-18 14:57:53 <sipa> UukGoblin: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8114.0
2067 2011-05-18 14:57:59 <jrmithdobbs> diki: in the common case
2068 2011-05-18 14:57:59 <diki> If it goes up proportionally to mining diff, then good
2069 2011-05-18 14:58:04 <B0g4r7> diki, define "price", as you used it above.
2070 2011-05-18 14:58:09 <da2ce7> how hard will it be to design the Block/tx proticol.
2071 2011-05-18 14:58:17 <sipa> da2ce7: nice, but not my priority now
2072 2011-05-18 14:58:21 <UukGoblin> sipa, thanks :-]
2073 2011-05-18 14:58:42 <diki> For the last time - ProtOcol
2074 2011-05-18 14:58:42 <jrmithdobbs> diki: RIGHT NOW it is overly profitable to mine because of speculators and press attention, eventually that will flatten out and miners will only make small margins on txn fees
2075 2011-05-18 14:58:47 <mtrlt> diki: well if diff goes up 100x but btc price doesn't, then teh miners are not making profit.
2076 2011-05-18 14:58:53 <da2ce7> lol
2077 2011-05-18 14:59:21 <diki> Then that would mean mrlt that less people will mine
2078 2011-05-18 14:59:28 <diki> and will earn a lot less
2079 2011-05-18 14:59:30 <sethsethseth___> tx fees can be big though, there was a block with 6btc transaction fee already
2080 2011-05-18 14:59:33 <B0g4r7> mtr: profit if their game is to sell their BTC for USD to attain a profit in USD.
2081 2011-05-18 14:59:39 <jrmithdobbs> diki: and then difficulty will drop and the system corrects itself
2082 2011-05-18 14:59:41 <diki> thus no point in mining. I suggest some kind of turnaround to all of this
2083 2011-05-18 14:59:42 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2084 2011-05-18 14:59:55 <mtrlt> B0g4r7: but they would be making a big gamble. :P
2085 2011-05-18 14:59:57 <jrmithdobbs> diki: so stop mining and find other ways to profit off of it
2086 2011-05-18 15:00:03 <jrmithdobbs> diki: welcome to capitalism
2087 2011-05-18 15:00:04 sethsethseth___ has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
2088 2011-05-18 15:00:18 <B0g4r7> Assuming the goal is to recover USD that was sunk into mining hardware.
2089 2011-05-18 15:00:24 <sipa> diki: if mining is not profitable for you, don't
2090 2011-05-18 15:00:32 <sipa> diki: that doesn't make bitcoin useless
2091 2011-05-18 15:00:35 <diki> the goal is to pay off the loans and contracts
2092 2011-05-18 15:00:48 <B0g4r7> pay using USD, yes?
2093 2011-05-18 15:00:56 <B0g4r7> (or GBP, EUR, other classical currency)
2094 2011-05-18 15:01:21 <jrmithdobbs> diki: sounds like you jumped in head first not knowing what you were getting into and are about to fuck your credit up
2095 2011-05-18 15:01:24 <jrmithdobbs> diki: good job
2096 2011-05-18 15:01:28 TD_ has joined
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2098 2011-05-18 15:01:37 <diki> the credit is not cause of mining
2099 2011-05-18 15:01:44 <diki> it's other, more personal stuff
2100 2011-05-18 15:01:55 <nanotube> UukGoblin: don't have a link to the actual transactions for you... but that forum thread will work heh.
2101 2011-05-18 15:01:58 <B0g4r7> lol
2102 2011-05-18 15:02:03 TD_ has joined
2103 2011-05-18 15:02:09 <diki> Also, do you guys srsly think i am the only one who will feel this way?
2104 2011-05-18 15:02:12 <B0g4r7> Well, sry, I guess it's really not that funny.
2105 2011-05-18 15:02:16 <sipa> diki: i don't see your problem
2106 2011-05-18 15:02:18 <diki> Do you think other know/knew what they got into?
2107 2011-05-18 15:02:20 pnicholson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2108 2011-05-18 15:02:28 <jrmithdobbs> ok sweet, ya my osx client just needed updating it seeing spends by others with the wallet now.
2109 2011-05-18 15:02:54 <jrmithdobbs> diki: honestly, probably not.
2110 2011-05-18 15:03:02 <jrmithdobbs> diki: i kind of hope they don't.
2111 2011-05-18 15:03:09 <B0g4r7> diki, well if you have montrous cc debt, I would recommend making a plan to deal with it.
2112 2011-05-18 15:03:19 <diki> This is the plan...
2113 2011-05-18 15:03:22 <B0g4r7> A plan that is achievable and does not involve much or any risk.
2114 2011-05-18 15:03:33 <diki> No plan has no risk...
2115 2011-05-18 15:03:34 <jrmithdobbs> aye this was a horrible plan for you
2116 2011-05-18 15:03:43 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
2117 2011-05-18 15:04:18 <jrmithdobbs> diki: for dealing with cc debt? there are lots of plans with no risk.
2118 2011-05-18 15:04:32 <diki> cc?
2119 2011-05-18 15:04:35 <B0g4r7> A plan like "work at my dayjob and put $x towards the monster every paycheck before spending on anything else."
2120 2011-05-18 15:04:50 <jrmithdobbs> diki: step 1: STOP USING THEM. step 2: REALLY STOP FUCKING USING THEM. step 3: make a budget. step 4: stick to budget. step 5: debt paid off.
2121 2011-05-18 15:05:17 <diki> How long do you think before the loan will get paid?
2122 2011-05-18 15:05:19 <jrmithdobbs> that is risk free.
2123 2011-05-18 15:05:22 <B0g4r7> Yes, stop adding if that's happening.
2124 2011-05-18 15:05:28 <B0g4r7> feeding the monster
2125 2011-05-18 15:05:44 <jrmithdobbs> diki: bitcoin is not going to solve your financial irresponsibility problems, sorry
2126 2011-05-18 15:05:52 <diki> They arent mine
2127 2011-05-18 15:05:58 <jrmithdobbs> whoevers they are.
2128 2011-05-18 15:05:58 <diki> but they do include me now
2129 2011-05-18 15:06:04 sethsethseth has joined
2130 2011-05-18 15:06:13 <jrmithdobbs> you done fucked up getting yourself involved in it. sorry.
2131 2011-05-18 15:06:23 <diki> The loan we have is due to 2022...yep that's when it's gonna be paid off
2132 2011-05-18 15:06:38 <B0g4r7> I'm sorry.
2133 2011-05-18 15:06:42 <jrmithdobbs> sucks
2134 2011-05-18 15:06:52 <UukGoblin> hm, actually...
2135 2011-05-18 15:06:58 <diki> I at least want to shorten this with bitcoins to at least 2015
2136 2011-05-18 15:06:58 <B0g4r7> Haz u watched "Money As Debt"?
2137 2011-05-18 15:07:17 <jlewis> bitcoin isn't free money
2138 2011-05-18 15:07:24 <jrmithdobbs> diki: good luckbut you've fucked up
2139 2011-05-18 15:07:29 <UukGoblin> can someone with 0.3.21 confirm if sendmany accepts 0 outputs?
2140 2011-05-18 15:07:30 <sipa> diki: my suggestion: do not rely on bitcoin as means for making profit
2141 2011-05-18 15:07:48 <B0g4r7> You can "play" bitcoin like anything else, but indeed risk is present.
2142 2011-05-18 15:07:53 <sipa> diki: it may be very profitable, it may be the opposite, but it's a huge risk
2143 2011-05-18 15:07:56 <jrmithdobbs> sell something else and accept bitcoin as payment so you can benefit from it's volatility if you REALLY want to take that risk
2144 2011-05-18 15:08:04 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2145 2011-05-18 15:08:30 <jrmithdobbs> but i'd suggest what i said above. make a budget. stick to it.
2146 2011-05-18 15:08:48 <B0g4r7> I once "inherited" a debt of $5k or so.
2147 2011-05-18 15:08:49 <jrmithdobbs> or if the debt is realestate-based, sell it off and move to something you can afford.
2148 2011-05-18 15:08:58 <B0g4r7> I made a plan to pay it off and did just that.
2149 2011-05-18 15:09:11 <B0g4r7> Took over a year, but it got done.
2150 2011-05-18 15:09:22 <jrmithdobbs> B0g4r7: aka, a car loan ;P
2151 2011-05-18 15:09:40 <diki> Yes, the budget is new card-> a bit profit. Pay off some stuff, buy a bit more hardware should this allow it, pay off a bit. Should bitcoin get harder than current hardware can support i will stop
2152 2011-05-18 15:09:41 <UukGoblin> lulz @ gavin's new forum pic ;-]
2153 2011-05-18 15:10:07 <jrmithdobbs> diki: trying to beat difficulty is not a budget, it's a huge financial risk
2154 2011-05-18 15:10:15 <mtrlt> diki: mining is still far from being unprofitable. of course depends on your price of electricity.
2155 2011-05-18 15:10:25 <diki> Before learning of bitcoin i had the idea of making apps for phones
2156 2011-05-18 15:10:32 <diki> Apss that would sell like hot butter
2157 2011-05-18 15:10:33 <jrmithdobbs> diki: i would seriously suggest you consider other alternatives.
2158 2011-05-18 15:10:38 <B0g4r7> diki, you can try doing that, but there are a lot of variables involved that add up to a substantial risk.
2159 2011-05-18 15:10:44 <jrmithdobbs> diki: that is a better plan, honestly.
2160 2011-05-18 15:10:53 <B0g4r7> Yes, don't forget about the cost of electricity for all this.
2161 2011-05-18 15:10:55 <jrmithdobbs> diki: seriously.
2162 2011-05-18 15:11:07 <B0g4r7> You're also gonna need big expensive power supplies, and systems to manage the heat these things make.
2163 2011-05-18 15:11:12 <mtrlt> then again, i'm currently mining for a living ;-P i dunno for how long though.
2164 2011-05-18 15:11:13 <B0g4r7> Maybe also electrical upgrades.
2165 2011-05-18 15:11:31 <diki> I hope AMD make powerful GPUs with less power requirements
2166 2011-05-18 15:11:32 <jrmithdobbs> diki: we're not trying to discourage you from mining to decrease pool size, you're really on track to fuck your credit and life up if this is really your plan :(
2167 2011-05-18 15:11:51 <mtrlt> jrmithdobbs: yes, if bitcoin fails.
2168 2011-05-18 15:11:55 <B0g4r7> diki, if more powerful GPUs are released, all that will happen is another race to be the first to mine with them.
2169 2011-05-18 15:12:00 <mtrlt> you people are too negative :P
2170 2011-05-18 15:12:02 <jrmithdobbs> mtrlt: doesn't even take that
2171 2011-05-18 15:12:10 <B0g4r7> Difficulty will readjust to compensate.
2172 2011-05-18 15:12:28 <jrmithdobbs> mtrlt: that's because business is about risk mitigation and he took NONE of the factors into consideration because he didn't even understand the system he was dumping money into before doing so
2173 2011-05-18 15:12:46 <B0g4r7> Doh.
2174 2011-05-18 15:12:56 <B0g4r7> "If you don't know what you're buying [into], don't buy it!"
2175 2011-05-18 15:13:07 <jrmithdobbs> yes, rule #1 of investment
2176 2011-05-18 15:13:33 <B0g4r7> Well, rule #1 being "Never risk what you cannot afford to lose."
2177 2011-05-18 15:13:45 <jrmithdobbs> i feel sorry for all the gamers doing what he is, they're gonna make this bubble pop fast at this rate ;P
2178 2011-05-18 15:13:51 Juffo-Wup has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2179 2011-05-18 15:13:51 allied has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2180 2011-05-18 15:14:10 <jrmithdobbs> B0g4r7: ok ya, it's rule #2, my bad
2181 2011-05-18 15:14:25 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2182 2011-05-18 15:15:11 iera has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2183 2011-05-18 15:15:16 iera has joined
2184 2011-05-18 15:16:21 <sacarlson> I got my multi chain version of bitcoin compiled into windows finally
2185 2011-05-18 15:16:32 Gozalie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2186 2011-05-18 15:16:36 <sacarlson> I guess we should call it freecoin now
2187 2011-05-18 15:16:41 <luke-jr> sacarlson: how does that work?
2188 2011-05-18 15:16:54 <sacarlson> luke-jr: it's the same barly tested
2189 2011-05-18 15:17:21 <sacarlson> I'm not sure what's wrong with the cryptopp lib that was giving me problems
2190 2011-05-18 15:17:54 AnatolV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2191 2011-05-18 15:18:08 Gozalie has joined
2192 2011-05-18 15:18:08 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: dunno, current HEAD builds as bitcoind for me fine on osx and linux
2193 2011-05-18 15:18:23 <jrmithdobbs> i don't ever build the gui though
2194 2011-05-18 15:18:27 <sacarlson> I just have to add some cosmetic changes to make it stand out so you don't accidently try using the wrong one
2195 2011-05-18 15:18:39 Gozalie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2196 2011-05-18 15:19:01 Alejandr0 has joined
2197 2011-05-18 15:19:09 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: yes the cryptopp compiled find in ubuntu just didn't work in my windows lib envirnment
2198 2011-05-18 15:19:21 allied has joined
2199 2011-05-18 15:19:24 <jrmithdobbs> weird
2200 2011-05-18 15:19:41 Alejandr0 is now known as Gozalie
2201 2011-05-18 15:19:50 <UukGoblin> bah, it says "Invalid amount" :-(
2202 2011-05-18 15:20:04 <jrmithdobbs> ?
2203 2011-05-18 15:20:10 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: I looked in the git logs and didn't see it changed very recently so maybe you guys havn't compiled in windows in some time?
2204 2011-05-18 15:20:25 <UukGoblin> sendmany with a 0
2205 2011-05-18 15:20:34 Gozalie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2206 2011-05-18 15:20:45 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: i think bluematt is working through some windows build issues for the 3.22rc
2207 2011-05-18 15:20:51 <diki> And i am for what it's worth trying to compile pushpoold for windows
2208 2011-05-18 15:21:08 <luke-jr> who is working through the real build issues?
2209 2011-05-18 15:21:13 <luke-jr> ie, static linking BS
2210 2011-05-18 15:21:21 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: he responded to my responce of my problem that you have no problems
2211 2011-05-18 15:21:32 <BlueMatt> 0.3.22rc2 builds fine on my xcompiling machines
2212 2011-05-18 15:21:36 <luke-jr> fwiw, we have a Makefile.gentoo that fixes them in the Gentoo ebuild overlay
2213 2011-05-18 15:21:38 <BlueMatt> havnt tried it on win
2214 2011-05-18 15:21:39 <jrmithdobbs> diki: running mining farm off windows is going to destroy your profit margins on licensing costs alone
2215 2011-05-18 15:21:54 Alexees has joined
2216 2011-05-18 15:22:01 <jrmithdobbs> diki: you really didn't crunch any numbers at all and just dumped money into this, didn't you? I feel sorry for you tbqh.
2217 2011-05-18 15:22:23 <sacarlson> BlueMatt xcompiling will that build a windows runing version?
2218 2011-05-18 15:22:25 <omglolbbq1> can i put a PCIe 2.x card in a PCIe 1.0 slot? probably not i guess?
2219 2011-05-18 15:22:27 <jrmithdobbs> i doubt pushpoold will build on windows
2220 2011-05-18 15:22:32 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: absolutely
2221 2011-05-18 15:22:37 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: ya you can
2222 2011-05-18 15:22:45 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: they don't physically fit though
2223 2011-05-18 15:22:46 <sacarlson> BlueMatt and it runs in unix?
2224 2011-05-18 15:22:58 <omglolbbq1> uhh huh? xD
2225 2011-05-18 15:23:07 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: you have to chop up connectors.
2226 2011-05-18 15:23:07 <omglolbbq1> so i have to hammer it in? xD
2227 2011-05-18 15:23:07 <BlueMatt> I compile on linux and it runs on win32 its the definition of xcompiling
2228 2011-05-18 15:23:17 <BlueMatt> I can also compile normally on linux
2229 2011-05-18 15:23:19 Juffo-Wup has joined
2230 2011-05-18 15:23:31 <omglolbbq1> jrmitdobbs srsly?
2231 2011-05-18 15:23:36 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: dead serious
2232 2011-05-18 15:23:45 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: google whitepixel for details
2233 2011-05-18 15:23:50 <omglolbbq1> ktnx :)
2234 2011-05-18 15:23:52 <sacarlson> BlueMatt well I must say it really suck to compile on windows, I hope to never have to do it again
2235 2011-05-18 15:23:52 <Alexees> my temperature is 83c stable when mining is it ok guys ?
2236 2011-05-18 15:24:07 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: it is not as easy to chop up as he makes out, be warned.
2237 2011-05-18 15:24:14 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: have you looked at my build instructions/build archive its not _that_ bad
2238 2011-05-18 15:24:30 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: until i got a working method down it was take me 30-120 min per connector.
2239 2011-05-18 15:24:37 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: can do it in <10 now
2240 2011-05-18 15:24:38 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: yes I would have never done it without that archive
2241 2011-05-18 15:25:18 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: but all that crap was new to me so took me 10 times longer to do anything
2242 2011-05-18 15:25:39 <B0g4r7> 83c sounds reasonable. 70s is more desirable.
2243 2011-05-18 15:25:49 <omglolbbq1> hmmm jrmithdobbs, on wikipedia it tells me 2.0 is backwards compatible with 1.0/1.1 but limited at the max bus speed of 1.0/1.1
2244 2011-05-18 15:25:58 <B0g4r7> 90 is getting too hot.
2245 2011-05-18 15:26:00 <sacarlson> BlueMatt very clear instruction you wrote too
2246 2011-05-18 15:26:00 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: bus speed doesn't matter for this
2247 2011-05-18 15:26:28 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: at 450+ Mhash/s on a 6970 you're still only using a couple K/s across the bus
2248 2011-05-18 15:26:29 bitcoinbulletin has joined
2249 2011-05-18 15:27:32 <UukGoblin> how much does a -testnet bitcoin cost these days? ;-]
2250 2011-05-18 15:27:40 <jrmithdobbs> $0usd
2251 2011-05-18 15:27:48 <jrmithdobbs> heh
2252 2011-05-18 15:27:55 <omglolbbq1> tnx jrmithdobbs :)
2253 2011-05-18 15:28:06 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: ps, do not be like diki
2254 2011-05-18 15:28:13 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: please research before purchasing anything
2255 2011-05-18 15:28:25 <jrmithdobbs> and understand the risks of what you're getting into
2256 2011-05-18 15:28:53 tg has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2257 2011-05-18 15:29:27 <omglolbbq1> jrmithdobbs, thats what im working on right now :)
2258 2011-05-18 15:29:29 <diki> and i plan to purchase a 5850
2259 2011-05-18 15:29:33 <diki> he hasn't said anything that is remotely close to mine
2260 2011-05-18 15:30:16 <diki> after a marginal increase(at least) maybe things could work out for future investments
2261 2011-05-18 15:30:26 Guest17311 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2262 2011-05-18 15:31:14 <omglolbbq1> jrmithdobbs, what risks are you referring to specificaly?
2263 2011-05-18 15:31:29 <mtrlt> risks of losing every cent you put in.
2264 2011-05-18 15:31:35 agricocb has joined
2265 2011-05-18 15:31:56 <jrmithdobbs> omglolbbq1: look at trending data
2266 2011-05-18 15:32:29 <omglolbbq1> i see, so you think bitcoin going to crash?
2267 2011-05-18 15:32:37 <mtrlt> i don't think so
2268 2011-05-18 15:32:40 <mtrlt> but it might
2269 2011-05-18 15:32:51 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
2270 2011-05-18 15:32:54 <mtrlt> i do not see it as a very big concern but it is there :P
2271 2011-05-18 15:33:24 <diki> When you think about...there is nothing to loose. All those GPUs one buys he can simply sell recovering at least half of what he paid
2272 2011-05-18 15:33:41 vorlov has joined
2273 2011-05-18 15:33:48 <mtrlt> there is something to lose. if you buy 4x6990 and bitcoin crashes tomorrow, you're fucked
2274 2011-05-18 15:33:53 tg has joined
2275 2011-05-18 15:33:56 <jrmithdobbs> diki: you're assuming the crash doesn't destroy the aftermarket gpu market
2276 2011-05-18 15:34:09 <UukGoblin> hmm I just placed an order for 4.599 on britcoin and it didn't get filled even though there were bids for > 4.60
2277 2011-05-18 15:34:12 <diki> the gpu market cannot be destroyed
2278 2011-05-18 15:34:23 <B0g4r7> I think bitcoin is propping it up a lot.
2279 2011-05-18 15:34:33 <mtrlt> diki: hwo so?
2280 2011-05-18 15:34:33 <mtrlt> how.
2281 2011-05-18 15:34:36 <B0g4r7> In January a 5970 could be had for $400 on ebay, BIN.
2282 2011-05-18 15:34:38 <diki> Lol...gaming?
2283 2011-05-18 15:34:42 <diki> Folding?
2284 2011-05-18 15:34:44 <B0g4r7> Now they're not to be found under $750.
2285 2011-05-18 15:34:58 <jrmithdobbs> diki: when people start realising those "like new" gpus they're buying have been run at 80C+ 24/7 for several months and are flakey as shit
2286 2011-05-18 15:35:02 <jrmithdobbs> diki: they will stop buying
2287 2011-05-18 15:35:05 <jrmithdobbs> prices will drop
2288 2011-05-18 15:35:05 <jrmithdobbs> etc
2289 2011-05-18 15:35:06 pnicholson has joined
2290 2011-05-18 15:35:15 <diki> Please dont misunderstand
2291 2011-05-18 15:35:26 <diki> they would not be sold at the original price, but more likely for half of it
2292 2011-05-18 15:35:30 <diki> or a bit less
2293 2011-05-18 15:35:37 <jrmithdobbs> no, half of it would be current value
2294 2011-05-18 15:35:44 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, all mine are running at 85C-
2295 2011-05-18 15:36:18 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: all but one of mine but one (still not sure why) are <78C ;P
2296 2011-05-18 15:36:24 <diki> Although there is one thing i regret buying
2297 2011-05-18 15:36:26 <diki> one...
2298 2011-05-18 15:36:27 <jrmithdobbs> err wow butchered that sentence good
2299 2011-05-18 15:36:56 <diki> It's the stupid Satio from SE. Those faggots went in and stopped any new firmwares
2300 2011-05-18 15:37:07 <diki> It was a flagship phone...they left it with bugs
2301 2011-05-18 15:37:23 <diki> I'm never buying anything sony ever again
2302 2011-05-18 15:37:44 <directhex> sony now are one of the most publically pro-flashing of android phone companies
2303 2011-05-18 15:37:46 <UukGoblin> I'm fucking disappointed at the way smartphones are made
2304 2011-05-18 15:38:20 <UukGoblin> so much awesome hardware goes to waste with bad software
2305 2011-05-18 15:38:24 <diki> I may get an android phone, or an iOS phone, but nothing remotely connected to sony
2306 2011-05-18 15:38:37 <UukGoblin> iOS?
2307 2011-05-18 15:38:46 <diki> Apple Inc.
2308 2011-05-18 15:38:57 <UukGoblin> cisco does IOS too
2309 2011-05-18 15:40:29 * UukGoblin is happy with his pandora console, thanks cosurgi!
2310 2011-05-18 15:40:36 ezl has joined
2311 2011-05-18 15:40:53 <diki> And to this day...the satio still doesnt have any cooked roms
2312 2011-05-18 15:41:05 <diki> everybody moved to other phones already
2313 2011-05-18 15:41:46 DukeOfURL has joined
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2315 2011-05-18 15:43:13 barf has joined
2316 2011-05-18 15:43:18 Incitatus has joined
2317 2011-05-18 15:45:00 <directhex> satio was symbian? sheesh, who cares about a dead os that hasn't been competent for smartphone use since it was called EPOC?
2318 2011-05-18 15:45:30 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|natty upgrade broke my bitcoin client (git latest) somehow, getting invalid pointer + bt on exit (plus client not working properly obviously). Known issue or should I dig further? I suspect wxWidgets...again
2319 2011-05-18 15:45:35 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ping
2320 2011-05-18 15:45:40 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: pong
2321 2011-05-18 15:45:50 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: builds?
2322 2011-05-18 15:45:57 <BlueMatt> linux done, windows building
2323 2011-05-18 15:46:08 <BlueMatt> (doing it all via gitian)
2324 2011-05-18 15:46:20 <diki> yup it was symbian
2325 2011-05-18 15:46:22 <diki> still is
2326 2011-05-18 15:46:49 <sipa> jgarzik: btw, i pushed a fix in dnslookup to master
2327 2011-05-18 15:46:59 <diki> But with countless bug...they didn't forget to patch the hole for hacking though and left us with a crap phone, buggy software we cant even hack
2328 2011-05-18 15:47:59 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: great
2329 2011-05-18 15:48:01 <jgarzik> sipa: cool
2330 2011-05-18 15:48:48 <diki> Jgarzik. Will you compile a windows binary of pushpool? I am "trying" to port it to windows but as i am not that experienced i may be doing it for nothing...
2331 2011-05-18 15:49:04 <jrmithdobbs> diki: it's posix code it's not going to port without a lot of work.
2332 2011-05-18 15:49:23 <diki> i was told that...which still brings us to the dev who coded it :)
2333 2011-05-18 15:49:49 <jrmithdobbs> why would you run pushpool on windows, seems counterproductive.
2334 2011-05-18 15:50:06 <diki> big deal
2335 2011-05-18 15:50:14 <jgarzik> diki: no
2336 2011-05-18 15:51:13 eugeneoden has quit (Quit: eugeneoden)
2337 2011-05-18 15:51:57 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2338 2011-05-18 15:52:20 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
2339 2011-05-18 15:52:57 <mtrlt> argh. is there a guide to using "midstate" that you get with getwork. i'm writing my own miner and can't seem to get valid hashes. i think i've tried every combination of little-endian/big-endian and such i could think of. i'm using an old poclbm's opencl sha-256 code ported to c++.
2340 2011-05-18 15:53:35 <mtrlt> i tried looking at diablominer and jgarzik's miner and i think i'm doing things the same way but i'm not.
2341 2011-05-18 15:53:46 <luke-jr> jgarzik: work-not-in-log is a bad reason for wrong-time; would you prefer work_in_log return an int/enum "failure reason", a string "failure reason", or take a pointer to one of the above which it changes on failure?
2342 2011-05-18 15:55:27 <jgarzik> luke-jr: as long as a proper string appears in the log, I have no big preference
2343 2011-05-18 15:55:48 <jgarzik> luke-jr: int/enum might be easiest
2344 2011-05-18 15:58:29 MartianW has joined
2345 2011-05-18 16:02:18 <diki> how is opencl compiled?
2346 2011-05-18 16:02:49 <diki> i haven't seen it compiled in poclbm
2347 2011-05-18 16:02:52 <diki> raw code
2348 2011-05-18 16:03:18 <UukGoblin> diki, it's compiled by the opencl library
2349 2011-05-18 16:03:27 <UukGoblin> at runtime
2350 2011-05-18 16:03:31 <directhex> that's part of the "magic" of opencl miners
2351 2011-05-18 16:03:41 <directhex> picking the right parameters to feed the compilation, at runtime
2352 2011-05-18 16:04:04 <UukGoblin> and patching the resulting binary afterwards ;-]
2353 2011-05-18 16:04:23 <luke-jr> jgarzik: any preference for leaving "work-not-in-log" as-is, or changing it to disambiguate?
2354 2011-05-18 16:04:26 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, is eligius foss?
2355 2011-05-18 16:04:26 npouillard has joined
2356 2011-05-18 16:04:41 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I always like disambiguation
2357 2011-05-18 16:04:49 <jgarzik> luke-jr: BTW, have you deployed the keepalive fix?
2358 2011-05-18 16:05:00 <directhex> UukGoblin, and that. sick, wrong, and brilliant.
2359 2011-05-18 16:05:04 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I'm curious if keepalive helps memory leakage (it should)
2360 2011-05-18 16:05:10 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: parts
2361 2011-05-18 16:05:19 <luke-jr> jgarzik: no, I haven't.
2362 2011-05-18 16:05:20 amiller has joined
2363 2011-05-18 16:05:33 <luke-jr> jgarzik: what should I change "work-not-in-log" to? ;)
2364 2011-05-18 16:06:28 <luke-jr> "cannot-find-work" maybe?
2365 2011-05-18 16:06:43 <jgarzik> luke-jr: well, what are all the reasons you are disambiguating into? :)
2366 2011-05-18 16:07:03 <luke-jr> "user-not-in-workers", "time-too-old", "time-too-new", "work-not-in-log"
2367 2011-05-18 16:08:53 <diki> how about give-me-monay ?
2368 2011-05-18 16:09:03 theboos has joined
2369 2011-05-18 16:09:11 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, ok well we were just talking and there is some want to improve the web facing parts in order to move more traffic away from the larger pools
2370 2011-05-18 16:09:31 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: the webserver is open to anyone who wants an account on it
2371 2011-05-18 16:09:33 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, basically it looks like a lot of the miners are gamers who have no idea what they're doing, so pretty graphs
2372 2011-05-18 16:09:39 <luke-jr> including MySQL and inotify on the json
2373 2011-05-18 16:09:53 <sethsethseth> lol at this guy making a huge deal out of $7. he is clearly retarded
2374 2011-05-18 16:09:54 <luke-jr> eg http://eligius.st/~artefact2/
2375 2011-05-18 16:09:56 MartianW has quit (Quit: Bye all.)
2376 2011-05-18 16:09:57 <UukGoblin> is the rpc port with -testnet set to 18332?
2377 2011-05-18 16:10:13 krekbwoy has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2378 2011-05-18 16:11:10 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: want an account? I has mod_python :p
2379 2011-05-18 16:11:17 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, hehe
2380 2011-05-18 16:11:19 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: I think you need to set -rpcport manually
2381 2011-05-18 16:11:27 <UukGoblin> kthanks
2382 2011-05-18 16:11:39 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, maybe later we're busy planning on taking over^W^W nothing at all
2383 2011-05-18 16:11:47 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: -.-
2384 2011-05-18 16:12:39 <luke-jr> jgarzik: "unknown-user", "time-too-old", "time-too-new", "unknown-work" maybe?
2385 2011-05-18 16:13:13 ben36 has joined
2386 2011-05-18 16:15:27 skreuzer has joined
2387 2011-05-18 16:15:33 <jgarzik> luke-jr: sure...
2388 2011-05-18 16:16:04 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: someone needs to write a FOSS pool website, yes
2389 2011-05-18 16:16:17 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: slush's approach to graphs (JS... flot) works well
2390 2011-05-18 16:16:48 <sethsethseth> phantom how can we tell that a lot of the miners are gamers?
2391 2011-05-18 16:16:57 ivan has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
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2395 2011-05-18 16:17:28 Moonies has joined
2396 2011-05-18 16:17:29 CoinMan has joined
2397 2011-05-18 16:18:54 <CoinMan> Does anyone have concern over deepbit's hashing power being 900Gh/s ?
2398 2011-05-18 16:19:05 <luke-jr> CoinMan: me
2399 2011-05-18 16:19:06 <jrmithdobbs> CoinMan: pretty much everyone does, yes
2400 2011-05-18 16:19:22 <noagendamarket> yes
2401 2011-05-18 16:19:24 <CoinMan> IT doesn't seem like "everyone" does or they wouldn't be using it?!
2402 2011-05-18 16:19:28 <bruce_wayne> QUESTION: What would happen if someone/something gained > 50% of the network? eg deepbit?
2403 2011-05-18 16:19:31 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: generally, code using Eligius's MySQL will be portable to any pushpool ;)
2404 2011-05-18 16:19:31 <ersi> Fuckin' freaky.
2405 2011-05-18 16:19:40 <luke-jr> bruce_wayne: 50% is effectively 100%
2406 2011-05-18 16:19:48 <ersi> bruce_wayne: They could theoreticly reverse transactions
2407 2011-05-18 16:19:55 <bruce_wayne> so?
2408 2011-05-18 16:19:56 <luke-jr> bruce_wayne: they can double-spend, prevent transactions, etc
2409 2011-05-18 16:19:59 <noagendamarket> bruce_wayne they would ddos deepbit then mine
2410 2011-05-18 16:20:02 <bruce_wayne> i know this
2411 2011-05-18 16:20:05 <luke-jr> bruce_wayne: and get 100% of rewards ofc
2412 2011-05-18 16:20:08 <bruce_wayne> and this is my concern
2413 2011-05-18 16:20:08 <jrmithdobbs> forget the obvious stuff like reversing txns
2414 2011-05-18 16:20:17 <jrmithdobbs> they can do much more fun stuff than that that's not detectable
2415 2011-05-18 16:20:25 <jrmithdobbs> like proxy users to other pools and filter out good answers
2416 2011-05-18 16:20:36 <luke-jr> jgarzik: ok, pushed
2417 2011-05-18 16:20:42 <bruce_wayne> right now DeepBit has almost 900GhZ
2418 2011-05-18 16:20:43 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,calc 1690
2419 2011-05-18 16:20:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1690 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 12 years, 35 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 11 minutes, and 21 seconds
2420 2011-05-18 16:20:51 <jrmithdobbs> which would make the other pools look like they were skimming because MH/s increases with no increased payouts
2421 2011-05-18 16:20:56 <jrmithdobbs> (in fact, decreased payouts)
2422 2011-05-18 16:21:02 <jrmithdobbs> and some other fun things
2423 2011-05-18 16:21:08 <bruce_wayne> or destroy btc?
2424 2011-05-18 16:21:17 <jrmithdobbs> not to mention, i don't like pushing my hashes through something run by someone with kgb ties
2425 2011-05-18 16:21:20 <bruce_wayne> (as a credible currency)
2426 2011-05-18 16:21:20 <CoinMan> deepbit's RISE is extremely fast
2427 2011-05-18 16:21:20 <jrmithdobbs> just sayin
2428 2011-05-18 16:21:38 <CoinMan> I bowed out at the 525 Gh/s mark because I thought it was too high
2429 2011-05-18 16:21:39 <jrmithdobbs> maybe that's just me
2430 2011-05-18 16:22:13 <bruce_wayne> the system needs overhaul
2431 2011-05-18 16:22:17 <bruce_wayne> gavin u there?
2432 2011-05-18 16:22:25 <CoinMan> I don't like it when theoretical boundaries have been broken
2433 2011-05-18 16:22:30 <BlueMatt> bruce_wayne: gavinandresen is not online
2434 2011-05-18 16:22:53 <bruce_wayne> there needs to be a limit to a cluster
2435 2011-05-18 16:23:06 <jrmithdobbs> no way to enforce that
2436 2011-05-18 16:23:12 <bruce_wayne> there has to be
2437 2011-05-18 16:23:13 <diki> found a very nice manga yesterday...one in a million
2438 2011-05-18 16:23:17 <jrmithdobbs> the market should be able to sort it out
2439 2011-05-18 16:23:17 <BlueMatt> there is no way to do anything like that
2440 2011-05-18 16:23:24 <bruce_wayne> how?
2441 2011-05-18 16:23:25 <CoinMan> Ye;ah, I don't see how that is enforceable since the generation is so random
2442 2011-05-18 16:23:25 <jrmithdobbs> but that requires the market to not be full of retarded gamers
2443 2011-05-18 16:23:26 <BlueMatt> on the other hand, if you know of a way, by all means share
2444 2011-05-18 16:23:26 <bruce_wayne> by hand?
2445 2011-05-18 16:23:57 <bruce_wayne> limit
2446 2011-05-18 16:24:02 <UukGoblin> uh... I checked out bitcoin from git, switched to tag v0.3.21, and I'm trying to compile it, but getting miniupnpc-related errors, even though makefile.unix has USE_UPNP:=0
2447 2011-05-18 16:24:13 ntosme2 has joined
2448 2011-05-18 16:24:16 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: USE_UPNP=
2449 2011-05-18 16:24:18 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: rtfm
2450 2011-05-18 16:24:37 <bruce_wayne> no ONE cluster/node can have > 45% of power
2451 2011-05-18 16:24:43 mmoya has joined
2452 2011-05-18 16:24:45 <bruce_wayne> no way
2453 2011-05-18 16:24:51 <BlueMatt> dude chill, deepbit has no where near 50% or 45, last time they hit that, people switched
2454 2011-05-18 16:25:02 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: no they're back to almost 45%
2455 2011-05-18 16:25:02 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, I did, and it says "Requires miniupnpc for UPnP port mapping. To compile with UPnP support, install miniupnpc and compile after setting USE_UPNP." which seems to imply it should be off by default
2456 2011-05-18 16:25:10 <bruce_wayne> http://deepbit.net/
2457 2011-05-18 16:25:13 <CoinMan> 900 Gh/s earlier
2458 2011-05-18 16:25:13 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: not from bitcoinwatch
2459 2011-05-18 16:25:15 <bruce_wayne> look at the growth
2460 2011-05-18 16:25:17 <CoinMan> Seems close to me
2461 2011-05-18 16:25:23 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: sorry, read the current manual
2462 2011-05-18 16:25:25 <BlueMatt> (its been updated)
2463 2011-05-18 16:25:27 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, thanks
2464 2011-05-18 16:25:30 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: they're somewhere between 40 and 43%
2465 2011-05-18 16:25:31 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, ;-]
2466 2011-05-18 16:25:36 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: so?
2467 2011-05-18 16:25:41 <BlueMatt> IIRC 40< 50
2468 2011-05-18 16:25:47 <bruce_wayne> may 4 >300 Gh/s
2469 2011-05-18 16:25:49 <UukGoblin> rtfcm? ;-]
2470 2011-05-18 16:25:52 <bruce_wayne> now 800 Gh
2471 2011-05-18 16:26:03 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik personal * rd4e133a132e5 pushpool-personal/server.c: Enable TCP keepalives on client sockets. http://tinyurl.com/5r4lfvv
2472 2011-05-18 16:26:04 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr personal * r0cc02d50619c pushpool-personal/msg.c: more precise reasons for work-not-in-log rejections http://tinyurl.com/6bgjvxj
2473 2011-05-18 16:26:25 <BlueMatt> dude seriously chill...what reason does [Tycho] even have to reverse txes?
2474 2011-05-18 16:26:33 <BlueMatt> and also, there is nothing anyone here can do about it
2475 2011-05-18 16:26:47 <sethsethseth> what we need is a mining forum sticky that gives a rundown of all the miners and pools. its really hard to figure out what pool and miner to get on when first starting
2476 2011-05-18 16:26:51 <BlueMatt> if you have a great idea, please share it...otherwise just be quiet
2477 2011-05-18 16:27:11 <BlueMatt> sethsethseth: so write one, and ask a mod to sticky it :)
2478 2011-05-18 16:27:27 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2479 2011-05-18 16:27:31 <sethsethseth> bah, i'll just offer a bounty:)
2480 2011-05-18 16:27:44 <BlueMatt> that works too...
2481 2011-05-18 16:27:46 <BlueMatt> how much?
2482 2011-05-18 16:27:47 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: what reason? seriously? when money's involved that need be the only motivation
2483 2011-05-18 16:28:26 <BlueMatt> man just shut up, there is nothing anyone can do about it but argue for people to join other pools and this isnt the place to do that
2484 2011-05-18 16:28:42 <bruce_wayne> hmm
2485 2011-05-18 16:28:52 <BlueMatt> plus [Tycho] , slush, et al are all trusted members of the community, they have no motivation to do that
2486 2011-05-18 16:29:03 <BlueMatt> in the long run it just kills them, it kills bitcoin and thus them
2487 2011-05-18 16:29:19 <bruce_wayne> How much computing power do u think the NSA could muster?
2488 2011-05-18 16:29:41 <BlueMatt> bruce_wayne: why does it matter?
2489 2011-05-18 16:29:44 <bruce_wayne> hole is a whole
2490 2011-05-18 16:29:53 <CoinMan> BlueMatt: So you are saying bitcoin could be killed by one person? But, lucky for bitcoin, right now the 2 likely killers are trusted community members?
2491 2011-05-18 16:30:11 <bruce_wayne> shhh
2492 2011-05-18 16:30:13 <jrmithdobbs> even though one of the two has known kgb ties
2493 2011-05-18 16:30:14 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
2494 2011-05-18 16:30:16 <jrmithdobbs> but shhh
2495 2011-05-18 16:30:16 <BlueMatt> CoinMan: no Im saying bitcoin cant currently be killed by one person as no one has 50%
2496 2011-05-18 16:30:18 <CoinMan> I just wanted to know what devs think, about this theoritical double-spend problem...I guess it's real.
2497 2011-05-18 16:30:20 <jrmithdobbs> time to drop this topic
2498 2011-05-18 16:30:22 <B0g4r7> ;;bc,blocks
2499 2011-05-18 16:30:22 <gribble> 124920
2500 2011-05-18 16:30:32 <CoinMan> Thanks, dropped
2501 2011-05-18 16:30:34 <BlueMatt> CoinMan: you still cant double-spend
2502 2011-05-18 16:30:45 <luke-jr> just move to Eligius
2503 2011-05-18 16:30:54 <jrmithdobbs> ^
2504 2011-05-18 16:31:28 <BlueMatt> all a 50%-holder could do is reverse txes and all the txes that they depend on...but as soon as they lose 50% those will be re-confirmed
2505 2011-05-18 16:31:38 <Nesetalis> ;;bc,mtgox
2506 2011-05-18 16:31:38 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.874,"low":6.9799,"vol":25194,"buy":7.2,"sell":7.3299,"last":7.125}}
2507 2011-05-18 16:31:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not true
2508 2011-05-18 16:31:43 <sethsethseth> why does it say 2 blocks found today and i havent received anything luke?
2509 2011-05-18 16:31:50 <luke-jr> sethsethseth: address?
2510 2011-05-18 16:31:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: what else can they do?
2511 2011-05-18 16:31:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: take 100% of generation
2512 2011-05-18 16:32:03 <BlueMatt> so?
2513 2011-05-18 16:32:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: and double-spend
2514 2011-05-18 16:32:14 <BlueMatt> they cant double-spend
2515 2011-05-18 16:32:24 <sipa> sure can, by reverting their own tx's
2516 2011-05-18 16:32:25 <BlueMatt> they can spend, reverse, spend
2517 2011-05-18 16:32:34 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2518 2011-05-18 16:32:48 <sethsethseth> 1MzTZ1TQuqdi6r3KxhEQj9fBRrsYsYkyeY
2519 2011-05-18 16:32:50 <sipa> i call that double spend :)
2520 2011-05-18 16:32:51 <BlueMatt> not double-spend in order for that to work, you'd have to hold significant power for extended period of time
2521 2011-05-18 16:32:54 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2522 2011-05-18 16:33:06 <BlueMatt> as soon as the community finds such things, they switch
2523 2011-05-18 16:33:07 <BlueMatt> simple as that
2524 2011-05-18 16:33:17 <bruce_wayne> *soon*
2525 2011-05-18 16:33:26 <luke-jr> sethsethseth: yeah, you were delayed by the small payouts
2526 2011-05-18 16:33:33 <luke-jr> sethsethseth: you're in queue for the next block
2527 2011-05-18 16:33:39 <luke-jr> with 7.88 BTC
2528 2011-05-18 16:33:41 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: what are the annoyances in the Windows build?
2529 2011-05-18 16:33:56 <jrmithdobbs> the reason there's no en masse exit from deepbit is there is no other pool with the ui stuff sorted
2530 2011-05-18 16:34:02 <jrmithdobbs> so if you're willing worried, get to work
2531 2011-05-18 16:34:03 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well Im doing gitian, so atm its building wx+boost+... before bitcoin
2532 2011-05-18 16:34:05 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I could try on Fedora tomorrow, if you are having tons of trouble w/ Windows 0.3.22rc
2533 2011-05-18 16:34:10 <sethsethseth> ahh ok, i keep seeming to get these huge payouts every few blocks
2534 2011-05-18 16:34:11 <jrmithdobbs> s/willing/really/
2535 2011-05-18 16:34:13 <BlueMatt> no, no trouble just long time
2536 2011-05-18 16:34:17 Kiba has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2537 2011-05-18 16:34:19 <BlueMatt> (plus its only 2-threaded)
2538 2011-05-18 16:34:19 <sipa> BlueMatt: you like me to build it as well?
2539 2011-05-18 16:34:28 <luke-jr> sethsethseth: I think it prefers smaller amounts, after time
2540 2011-05-18 16:34:33 <BlueMatt> sipa: sure, Ill gist the current linux one, and win if you want
2541 2011-05-18 16:34:36 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, your pool works by fixing the BTC payout per block right?
2542 2011-05-18 16:34:42 <BlueMatt> oh wait, no the linux one is in a pull request
2543 2011-05-18 16:34:45 <luke-jr> sethsethseth: that is, it pays out the ones who have been waiting the longest first, then after that I think by payout size
2544 2011-05-18 16:34:46 <BlueMatt> just take it out of there
2545 2011-05-18 16:34:51 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ?
2546 2011-05-18 16:34:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: isn't it possible to put the mingw one in a pull req as well?
2547 2011-05-18 16:35:21 <luke-jr> sethsethseth: so it's possible your payouts are the first to be delayed, when the micro-earners get paid
2548 2011-05-18 16:35:22 <BlueMatt> sipa: I could, but I prefer not to as I dont really want that crap in the tree before autotools
2549 2011-05-18 16:35:29 <BlueMatt> sipa: I can push a temp repo if you want though
2550 2011-05-18 16:35:32 <sipa> oh, i see
2551 2011-05-18 16:35:42 <BlueMatt> or wait...I think most of it should be in crosscompile
2552 2011-05-18 16:35:49 <BlueMatt> let me push current descriptor
2553 2011-05-18 16:35:49 <sipa> so 0.3.22 is not yet meant to have a gitian-based mingw build?
2554 2011-05-18 16:35:59 ezl has joined
2555 2011-05-18 16:36:02 <sipa> anyway, gotta go, i'll be back in a few hours
2556 2011-05-18 16:36:02 <BlueMatt> well, it is but just not in the tree IMHO
2557 2011-05-18 16:36:05 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, like if i have a certain share of a block and that block is found, my btc payout is added to the buffered payout until i have at least 1 BTC?
2558 2011-05-18 16:36:25 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: correct
2559 2011-05-18 16:36:48 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, ok cause it seems like the payout is changing
2560 2011-05-18 16:37:13 <sethsethseth> luke: ok, no big deal except taht im trying to test this custom client that plays a sound at generation and now i have to wait like a day to test:) better than solo at least
2561 2011-05-18 16:37:16 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: some displays include estimated payout for the current block
2562 2011-05-18 16:37:27 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: since that too is paid immediately when it's found
2563 2011-05-18 16:37:39 <UukGoblin> ok I've got 8 connections on the testnet but 0 blocks
2564 2011-05-18 16:37:42 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, ah ok
2565 2011-05-18 16:37:50 <UukGoblin> hulp?
2566 2011-05-18 16:37:51 <luke-jr> sethsethseth: ah
2567 2011-05-18 16:38:38 <directhex> woo, BlueMatt's binary works on ubuntu.
2568 2011-05-18 16:38:46 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
2569 2011-05-18 16:38:49 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 46671977.9499 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 4 hours, 1 minute, and 27 seconds
2570 2011-05-18 16:38:56 <BlueMatt> oh shit, damnit why did you remind me...have to do more work on wx
2571 2011-05-18 16:39:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: boo, just merge Qt :p
2572 2011-05-18 16:39:20 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: all it does so far is show dummy data, but Id love to...
2573 2011-05-18 16:39:28 <sethsethseth> also, why does coincontrol never work now?
2574 2011-05-18 16:39:37 <luke-jr> sethsethseth: jarly is rewriting it
2575 2011-05-18 16:39:52 <BlueMatt> would jgarzik merge qt branch if it got working to replace wx though?
2576 2011-05-18 16:39:58 <luke-jr> sethsethseth: try http://eligius.st/~artefact2/
2577 2011-05-18 16:40:11 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: does the branch replace wx or just add another GUI?
2578 2011-05-18 16:40:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: currently replace
2579 2011-05-18 16:40:27 <luke-jr> actually, IMO, wx shouldn't be replaced, just removed
2580 2011-05-18 16:40:34 <luke-jr> GUIs should be kept separate
2581 2011-05-18 16:40:41 <BlueMatt> Id like to see add, but the whole branch is so full of wx crap it would be really hard
2582 2011-05-18 16:40:49 <BlueMatt> and since when do you have 2 pools?
2583 2011-05-18 16:40:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: a week or so?
2584 2011-05-18 16:41:02 <UukGoblin> I have no blocks on the testnet :~(
2585 2011-05-18 16:41:03 <BlueMatt> why?
2586 2011-05-18 16:41:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: USA and Europe
2587 2011-05-18 16:41:19 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: cross-continental latency is annoying
2588 2011-05-18 16:41:21 <BlueMatt> but then you just dilute mining power further
2589 2011-05-18 16:41:33 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ?
2590 2011-05-18 16:41:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it'll be ok
2591 2011-05-18 16:41:49 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, worse is that the intercontinental links will randomly drop tcp packets to shape traffic to ~200KB/s
2592 2011-05-18 16:42:00 <BlueMatt> you could still do it so that people get paid out no matter where the block is found...
2593 2011-05-18 16:42:14 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, and they do it poorly so you actually just get random spikes of full speed followed by dead stop
2594 2011-05-18 16:42:18 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: mostly rhetorical
2595 2011-05-18 16:42:45 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I don't mind committing contrib/ updates during -rc
2596 2011-05-18 16:42:45 <UukGoblin> received: block (215 bytes)
2597 2011-05-18 16:42:45 <UukGoblin> received block 00000005106f1d8d144a
2598 2011-05-18 16:42:45 <UukGoblin> ProcessBlock: ORPHAN BLOCK, prev=00000001a540e8b1f58e
2599 2011-05-18 16:42:47 <UukGoblin> meh?
2600 2011-05-18 16:42:59 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: hm, no wasnt really talking about that
2601 2011-05-18 16:43:03 <sethsethseth> luke you rly need to put all the important links into the original post
2602 2011-05-18 16:43:06 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ditto for translations
2603 2011-05-18 16:43:15 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2604 2011-05-18 16:43:16 <BlueMatt> oh god dammit, build failed due to makefile issues
2605 2011-05-18 16:43:29 denorm has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2606 2011-05-18 16:43:30 <BlueMatt> now it has to start all over...or I guess I can try to trick it to do otherwise...
2607 2011-05-18 16:43:38 denorm has joined
2608 2011-05-18 16:43:52 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: what sethsethseth said
2609 2011-05-18 16:44:02 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, that happens all the time, it's basically just because the way the initial block download occurs is logically the reverse of how the block chain is structured
2610 2011-05-18 16:44:06 * jgarzik thirds sethsethseth
2611 2011-05-18 16:44:16 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: and update wiki.bitcoin.it with correct data
2612 2011-05-18 16:44:23 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: it's worse on testnet, with two genesis blocks on same IRC channel
2613 2011-05-18 16:44:25 <jgarzik> UukGoblin: ^^
2614 2011-05-18 16:44:27 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: wiki is publcily editable
2615 2011-05-18 16:44:36 <jgarzik> UukGoblin: stop and restart, if you fail to see progress in a few minutes
2616 2011-05-18 16:44:44 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, lol srsly? that's ridiculous
2617 2011-05-18 16:44:51 <phantomcircuit> although i guess it's a good test
2618 2011-05-18 16:45:01 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: testnet got reset a while back, and still some old clients hanging out
2619 2011-05-18 16:45:09 <phantomcircuit> which actually would totally fuck up my python client
2620 2011-05-18 16:45:10 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: -most- have moved to new
2621 2011-05-18 16:45:22 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, oh, you mean it will query for most recent blocks first?
2622 2011-05-18 16:45:33 <BlueMatt> well jgarzik your build is gonna be a bit late...Ill get it done tonight though
2623 2011-05-18 16:45:37 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: ya but effort, no incentive (hint hint)
2624 2011-05-18 16:45:43 <BlueMatt> (damn one missing cd)
2625 2011-05-18 16:45:47 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: ;P
2626 2011-05-18 16:45:58 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, no it queries for the first blocks first, but the blocks point to the previous block, so there's no way to know which blocks are after a set of blocks
2627 2011-05-18 16:46:06 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: should I send over the linux one now, or just wait for them both?
2628 2011-05-18 16:46:26 <UukGoblin> why can't it simply query for block #1? :-P
2629 2011-05-18 16:46:32 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, basically the block chain is a singly linked list pointing towards the genesis, there's no way to walk backwards the way the mainline client does
2630 2011-05-18 16:46:36 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: about to sign off IRC, I'll just wait and watch for an email about windows build
2631 2011-05-18 16:46:45 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: sounds good
2632 2011-05-18 16:46:45 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, because there could be 10 block #1s
2633 2011-05-18 16:46:52 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: really want to release all binaries at same time
2634 2011-05-18 16:47:00 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: (well, OSX always waits)
2635 2011-05-18 16:47:03 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, although that is roughly how the client does it now
2636 2011-05-18 16:47:08 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, hm.
2637 2011-05-18 16:47:10 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: alright...maybe some day Ill get around to looking into osx
2638 2011-05-18 16:47:28 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, it just assumes that the other client will play nice and give it the best chain
2639 2011-05-18 16:48:07 Clarence has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2640 2011-05-18 16:48:27 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, well whatever it is, it seems wrong. I've restarted and still get 0 blocks for a while, despite 8 connections...
2641 2011-05-18 16:48:30 glassresistor has joined
2642 2011-05-18 16:48:30 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
2643 2011-05-18 16:48:30 glassresistor has joined
2644 2011-05-18 16:48:45 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, by "block #1" I'd mean "block #1 in your longest available chain plz"
2645 2011-05-18 16:48:50 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, try specifying -connect=
2646 2011-05-18 16:48:57 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, I have 8 connections
2647 2011-05-18 16:49:09 <UukGoblin> that should be 8x more than enough
2648 2011-05-18 16:49:18 _io_ has joined
2649 2011-05-18 16:49:20 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, yes but the one your connected to might be a retardedly broken node
2650 2011-05-18 16:49:29 mbulat has joined
2651 2011-05-18 16:49:48 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, for example if by chance you've connected to my python client first, you will never be able to download because it simply doesn't support getblocks requests
2652 2011-05-18 16:49:49 mbulat has left ()
2653 2011-05-18 16:50:14 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, and tthe mainline doesn't connect to a different node once it's in the initial block download stage iirc
2654 2011-05-18 16:50:19 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, right, I see
2655 2011-05-18 16:50:49 <UukGoblin> where can I find an IP of a working testnet node then please? :-)
2656 2011-05-18 16:51:00 <phantomcircuit> i have no clue
2657 2011-05-18 16:51:01 <phantomcircuit> xD
2658 2011-05-18 16:51:18 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, look in the irc and just try different ones
2659 2011-05-18 16:51:30 right3ous has joined
2660 2011-05-18 16:52:00 <midnightmagic> i'm running testnet but it's not reachable from outside
2661 2011-05-18 16:52:37 jgarzik has quit (Quit: working remotely. send email if you have a question. hopefully 0.3.22rc2 tonight.)
2662 2011-05-18 16:53:03 joepie91 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
2663 2011-05-18 16:53:13 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
2664 2011-05-18 16:54:51 Schematografter has joined
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2666 2011-05-18 16:54:59 <right3ous> ;;bc,blocks
2667 2011-05-18 16:55:00 <gribble> 124924
2668 2011-05-18 16:55:21 <right3ous> ,,bc,diff
2669 2011-05-18 16:55:22 <gribble> 157426.20628986
2670 2011-05-18 16:55:35 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2671 2011-05-18 16:56:25 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2672 2011-05-18 16:57:49 Schematografter has quit (Client Quit)
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2675 2011-05-18 16:58:13 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell sipa Im not 100% sure this is right, but it should be quite close. Build when you have time: https://gist.github.com/961527
2676 2011-05-18 16:58:13 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2677 2011-05-18 16:58:48 Titeuf_87 has joined
2678 2011-05-18 16:59:55 <UukGoblin> hrm, I -addnode'd them all and I have 1 connection now (and 0 blocks)
2679 2011-05-18 17:00:05 <UukGoblin> seems... backwards... :-P
2680 2011-05-18 17:01:47 <UukGoblin> should I start my own chain then? :-P
2681 2011-05-18 17:02:00 <BlueMatt> why?
2682 2011-05-18 17:02:02 <UukGoblin> aha, connections went up to 8, still no blocks
2683 2011-05-18 17:02:03 joepie91 has joined
2684 2011-05-18 17:02:22 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, cause I want to test 0-out txs and can't get any testnet blocks from anyone
2685 2011-05-18 17:03:53 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: IIRC you can always add BBE's node
2686 2011-05-18 17:05:18 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, what's that?
2687 2011-05-18 17:05:20 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: -addnode=62.155.236.26
2688 2011-05-18 17:05:27 <BlueMatt> BBE==bitcoin block explorer
2689 2011-05-18 17:05:31 <BlueMatt> though that ip is me
2690 2011-05-18 17:05:36 <UukGoblin> ah
2691 2011-05-18 17:06:03 <BlueMatt> not sure what the one for BBE is
2692 2011-05-18 17:06:14 <UukGoblin> 99.27.237.13?
2693 2011-05-18 17:06:22 <BlueMatt> try it
2694 2011-05-18 17:07:40 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ping
2695 2011-05-18 17:08:16 <UukGoblin> meh, I've genned 2 blocks on my net
2696 2011-05-18 17:08:20 <UukGoblin> I mean on testnet
2697 2011-05-18 17:08:29 <UukGoblin> how the hell will I get them to mature now? ;-]
2698 2011-05-18 17:08:32 <tcatm> BlueMatt: pong
2699 2011-05-18 17:08:42 <BlueMatt> lol, well when you connect it aught to be fun watching your work disapear
2700 2011-05-18 17:08:57 <UukGoblin> whole half a minute of mining... lost...
2701 2011-05-18 17:09:08 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i keep getting rpc errors, any problems on your end?
2702 2011-05-18 17:09:10 <UukGoblin> I /am/ connected though, that's the funny part
2703 2011-05-18 17:09:10 <BlueMatt> tcoppi: any progress on bitcoin cli stuff? aka are you working towards/how far are you towards a pull request
2704 2011-05-18 17:09:15 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ^
2705 2011-05-18 17:09:18 silverwolf has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2706 2011-05-18 17:09:20 <UukGoblin> if I had 0 connections it'd be reasonable
2707 2011-05-18 17:09:20 <BlueMatt> tcoppi: sorry, bad tab
2708 2011-05-18 17:09:26 <UukGoblin> but I have like 8 connections and 0 blocks
2709 2011-05-18 17:09:27 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: nothing right now
2710 2011-05-18 17:09:29 <UukGoblin> (well, 2 blocks now)
2711 2011-05-18 17:09:50 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: hm, really odd...no idea what does debug.log say?
2712 2011-05-18 17:10:16 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, many things... like:
2713 2011-05-18 17:10:17 <tcatm> BlueMatt: it's missing a "commandline" parser. i.e. something that can parse 'sendfrom "foo bar" 1J.... 0.23' into json
2714 2011-05-18 17:10:24 <UukGoblin> received: block (215 bytes)
2715 2011-05-18 17:10:24 <UukGoblin> received block 00000002f8c0aca729cd
2716 2011-05-18 17:10:24 <UukGoblin> ProcessBlock: ORPHAN BLOCK, prev=00000003777814c7ec4e
2717 2011-05-18 17:10:34 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, looks like most of your pool is cpu miners?
2718 2011-05-18 17:10:38 <UukGoblin> and that at the end:
2719 2011-05-18 17:10:38 <UukGoblin> ThreadRPCServer method=getinfo
2720 2011-05-18 17:10:39 <UukGoblin> keypool reserve 3
2721 2011-05-18 17:10:39 <UukGoblin> keypool return 3
2722 2011-05-18 17:10:48 <UukGoblin> (that's my getinfo though lol)
2723 2011-05-18 17:11:05 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: dunno
2724 2011-05-18 17:11:09 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: no
2725 2011-05-18 17:11:16 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ah, are you planning on working on that? (asking because of the wallet crypto stuff which somewhat depends on a more cli-like interface)
2726 2011-05-18 17:11:22 <BlueMatt> (or atleast is more secure with, etc)
2727 2011-05-18 17:11:29 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: i know at least 3 >3Ghash on the pool
2728 2011-05-18 17:11:30 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: would be interesting to see a graph of each address's hashrate on top of each other
2729 2011-05-18 17:11:38 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, i guess the stats stuff is just wrong
2730 2011-05-18 17:11:51 <tcatm> BlueMatt: I'll continue work soon, yes. Though, I'm happy if someone else contributes some code.
2731 2011-05-18 17:11:53 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: or they failed over to a different pool for some reason
2732 2011-05-18 17:12:08 <phantomcircuit> http://segv.net/bitcoin/
2733 2011-05-18 17:12:17 <phantomcircuit> shows mostly payouts < 1 BTC
2734 2011-05-18 17:12:42 <BlueMatt> tcatm: not like I know anything, but if I have time I might have a look...have a couple other gui improvement ideas first though
2735 2011-05-18 17:12:58 <phantomcircuit> hehe while true; do ./eligius.sh; sleep 10; done
2736 2011-05-18 17:13:01 <phantomcircuit> MAGIC
2737 2011-05-18 17:13:07 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: payouts are never under 1 BTC
2738 2011-05-18 17:13:08 <Mookman288> hm, still a pretty high stale rate
2739 2011-05-18 17:13:16 <luke-jr> well, except for expiracy
2740 2011-05-18 17:13:25 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i meant earned is <1 BTC
2741 2011-05-18 17:13:30 draaglom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2742 2011-05-18 17:13:37 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, but im guessing those stats are just wildly inaccurate
2743 2011-05-18 17:13:48 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: to earn > 1 BTC per block, you need 1/50th of hashpower ;)
2744 2011-05-18 17:14:05 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, oh those are per block stats
2745 2011-05-18 17:14:12 <jrmithdobbs> ya
2746 2011-05-18 17:14:13 <phantomcircuit> they looks like pool life time stats
2747 2011-05-18 17:14:14 <luke-jr> looks like it
2748 2011-05-18 17:14:20 eao has joined
2749 2011-05-18 17:14:24 <phantomcircuit> i hadn't considered that
2750 2011-05-18 17:14:46 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: who made that page?
2751 2011-05-18 17:14:58 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2752 2011-05-18 17:15:08 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i have no idea
2753 2011-05-18 17:15:11 xelister has joined
2754 2011-05-18 17:15:22 <UukGoblin> 29 testnet blocks genned. :-P
2755 2011-05-18 17:15:35 <UukGoblin> quite a lot of rejected blocks there ;-P
2756 2011-05-18 17:15:41 <jrmithdobbs> lol
2757 2011-05-18 17:15:41 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, you're rich!
2758 2011-05-18 17:16:39 right3ous has left ()
2759 2011-05-18 17:16:41 <UukGoblin> ah... ugh... right... but... damn.
2760 2011-05-18 17:16:49 <UukGoblin> I wanted to test if /other/ nodes would accept my dodgy transactions
2761 2011-05-18 17:17:00 <phantomcircuit> without any outputs?
2762 2011-05-18 17:17:03 <phantomcircuit> sure they will
2763 2011-05-18 17:17:03 <UukGoblin> now I'll have to create a testnet of my own 0.3.21 and 0.3.21-patched
2764 2011-05-18 17:17:12 <phantomcircuit> destroying btc is your choice
2765 2011-05-18 17:17:32 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2766 2011-05-18 17:17:33 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.874,"low":6.9799,"vol":25448,"buy":7.11,"sell":7.2549,"last":7.11}}
2767 2011-05-18 17:17:45 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, nono, something like in: 0.01 <validaddress>, out: 0.00 <invalidaddress>
2768 2011-05-18 17:17:55 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
2769 2011-05-18 17:17:56 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, destruction of btc is what I'm trying to prevent
2770 2011-05-18 17:18:07 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, invalidaddress?
2771 2011-05-18 17:18:22 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, i.e. hash of my custom data
2772 2011-05-18 17:18:48 <phantomcircuit> iirc there's no such thing as an invalidaddress
2773 2011-05-18 17:19:04 <phantomcircuit> there are addresses for which nobody has the private key
2774 2011-05-18 17:19:04 <UukGoblin> well my point is that the output is 0
2775 2011-05-18 17:19:17 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, yes you're destroying the 0.01 BTC
2776 2011-05-18 17:19:23 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: you could base64 instead of base58 to get the address and that'd be invalid
2777 2011-05-18 17:19:24 <phantomcircuit> which nobody is going to prevent you from doing
2778 2011-05-18 17:19:26 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: no
2779 2011-05-18 17:19:30 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, no I'm not, I'm sending 0.01 BTC in a transaction fee
2780 2011-05-18 17:19:34 <luke-jr> that 0.01 BTC input goes to fee
2781 2011-05-18 17:19:41 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, oh it does?
2782 2011-05-18 17:19:47 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: so that was you?
2783 2011-05-18 17:19:48 <phantomcircuit> yeah i guess it does
2784 2011-05-18 17:19:57 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, what me?
2785 2011-05-18 17:20:15 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: those lots-of-0-BTC-output txs
2786 2011-05-18 17:20:25 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, no, haven't sent any yet
2787 2011-05-18 17:20:29 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, link?
2788 2011-05-18 17:20:37 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, the anti spam rules feel weird
2789 2011-05-18 17:21:31 <luke-jr> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/ceb1a7fb57ef8b75ac59b56dd859d5cb3ab5c31168aa55eb3819cd5ddbd3d806
2790 2011-05-18 17:21:38 pierre` has quit (Quit: leaving)
2791 2011-05-18 17:21:39 <UukGoblin> gee it's fun generating at 1 diff ;-]
2792 2011-05-18 17:21:39 <phantomcircuit> argh
2793 2011-05-18 17:21:55 <luke-jr> supposedly there's a PNG in there
2794 2011-05-18 17:22:11 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, ah awesome, it got accepted
2795 2011-05-18 17:22:23 <luke-jr> not awesome
2796 2011-05-18 17:22:24 <UukGoblin> I only wonder how long it took
2797 2011-05-18 17:22:28 <luke-jr> not long
2798 2011-05-18 17:22:34 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, well, that's a matter of taste if it's awesome or not
2799 2011-05-18 17:22:38 <luke-jr> I'm considering boycottign those on Eligius
2800 2011-05-18 17:22:56 <jrmithdobbs> ya that's the opposite of awesome, lol
2801 2011-05-18 17:23:05 <UukGoblin> that's exactly what I need
2802 2011-05-18 17:23:11 <UukGoblin> so it's awesome to me
2803 2011-05-18 17:23:17 pierre` has joined
2804 2011-05-18 17:23:23 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: for what purpose?
2805 2011-05-18 17:23:34 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: at least send a bigger fee if you're gonna pull that ;P
2806 2011-05-18 17:23:37 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, generic timestamping service that doesn't burn coins?
2807 2011-05-18 17:23:38 krekbwoy has joined
2808 2011-05-18 17:23:39 caedes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2809 2011-05-18 17:23:53 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: that's not what Bitcoin is :p
2810 2011-05-18 17:23:56 <UukGoblin> yay I matured my testnet block
2811 2011-05-18 17:24:14 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, I refuse to continue that discussion again... lost way too much time trying to prove my point
2812 2011-05-18 17:24:41 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: it's cool and all but seriously, if you're going to give that to people bump the fee ;P
2813 2011-05-18 17:24:55 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, well fee is up to the miners...
2814 2011-05-18 17:25:00 m00p has joined
2815 2011-05-18 17:25:17 <jrmithdobbs> right and you already convinced luke to drop 'em for that fee, lol
2816 2011-05-18 17:25:33 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, I wonder if that tx got accepted if it had a single 0.01 output too (i.e. no fee)
2817 2011-05-18 17:25:40 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: no
2818 2011-05-18 17:25:56 <jrmithdobbs> too big
2819 2011-05-18 17:26:16 <UukGoblin> ah right
2820 2011-05-18 17:26:17 <luke-jr> no, just the outputs <0.01 BTC
2821 2011-05-18 17:26:28 <jrmithdobbs> ah that too
2822 2011-05-18 17:26:35 <luke-jr> wtf wait a sec
2823 2011-05-18 17:26:35 <UukGoblin> kewl
2824 2011-05-18 17:26:43 <luke-jr> that should have had a min fee of 0.1 BTC
2825 2011-05-18 17:26:43 <UukGoblin> that's all great then
2826 2011-05-18 17:26:56 <luke-jr> OOOH
2827 2011-05-18 17:26:57 <jrmithdobbs> ya it got processed by someone running an old client
2828 2011-05-18 17:27:00 <luke-jr> // Transactions under 10K are free
2829 2011-05-18 17:27:03 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, can kinda agree on that
2830 2011-05-18 17:27:10 <jrmithdobbs> oh
2831 2011-05-18 17:27:48 <horb> what kinda scam are you cooking up now luke-jr
2832 2011-05-18 17:27:55 <UukGoblin> lol
2833 2011-05-18 17:28:14 quup has joined
2834 2011-05-18 17:28:33 <quup> how come 'sendtoaddress' doesn't take minconf argument but 'sendfrom' does?
2835 2011-05-18 17:29:04 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, to make you feel better, consider that all these 0-value transactions can be safely pruned
2836 2011-05-18 17:29:29 bitcoiner has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2837 2011-05-18 17:31:13 ben36 has quit (Quit: ben36)
2838 2011-05-18 17:32:50 <luke-jr> ok, new fee rule: if any output is under 0.00000256 BTC, fee is 0.02097152 BTC per KiB
2839 2011-05-18 17:33:13 <jrmithdobbs> lol
2840 2011-05-18 17:33:18 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: see what you gone and done
2841 2011-05-18 17:34:49 <horb> the fee is > than the tx? sounds like the ATM at a casino
2842 2011-05-18 17:36:08 caedes has joined
2843 2011-05-18 17:36:09 <luke-jr> sound good?
2844 2011-05-18 17:36:51 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2845 2011-05-18 17:36:54 <horb> dude is making up rules and fees
2846 2011-05-18 17:38:07 soconfusedmp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2847 2011-05-18 17:40:08 bitcoiner has joined
2848 2011-05-18 17:42:03 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Matt Corallo master * r6c5064b / contrib/gitian.yml : Update Gitian Build Descriptor to match new directory layout. - http://bit.ly/iohVau
2849 2011-05-18 17:42:04 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r010ca70 / contrib/gitian.yml :
2850 2011-05-18 17:42:04 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #235 from TheBlueMatt/gitianfix
2851 2011-05-18 17:42:04 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Update Gitian Build Descriptor to match new directory layout. - http://bit.ly/jDWPlP
2852 2011-05-18 17:42:35 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r98199fa / (2 files):
2853 2011-05-18 17:42:35 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #234 from TheBlueMatt/ltfix
2854 2011-05-18 17:42:35 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Update Lithuanian Translation to latest git. - http://bit.ly/imio1r
2855 2011-05-18 17:42:55 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * rfbe6d5d / (2 files):
2856 2011-05-18 17:42:55 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #230 from TheBlueMatt/defix
2857 2011-05-18 17:42:55 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Update German translation to latest git. - http://bit.ly/l2Lq3n
2858 2011-05-18 17:43:22 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r813a3b4 / (2 files):
2859 2011-05-18 17:43:22 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #229 from TheBlueMatt/esfix
2860 2011-05-18 17:43:22 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Update spanish translation to newest git. - http://bit.ly/j0axnX
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2866 2011-05-18 17:45:34 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, it's up to you how you define your fees
2867 2011-05-18 17:46:24 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: not entirely
2868 2011-05-18 17:46:30 <UukGoblin> that's why i'm also advocating making the customization of fees more miner-friendly
2869 2011-05-18 17:46:32 <luke-jr> I mean, strictly speaking yes
2870 2011-05-18 17:46:47 <luke-jr> but since I run a pool, it's in my interest to seek input from the community
2871 2011-05-18 17:47:13 <UukGoblin> yes, of course
2872 2011-05-18 17:47:18 <UukGoblin> i'm not in your pool so i don't vote
2873 2011-05-18 17:48:06 Gui_0 has joined
2874 2011-05-18 17:48:41 <horb> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Eligius
2875 2011-05-18 17:48:45 <horb> your poool sounds scammy bro
2876 2011-05-18 17:49:14 <wumpus> what's wrong with eligius?
2877 2011-05-18 17:49:41 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2878 2011-05-18 17:49:59 <horb> theres a lot of fine print with the fees and hes ignoring transactions other miners accept without any problem
2879 2011-05-18 17:50:52 aschmitz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2880 2011-05-18 17:51:21 <wumpus> i'm currently mining with them, was it slush first but he got a lot of invalid blocks/rpc timouts at a certain moment
2881 2011-05-18 17:51:30 <lfm> horb: he may be just checking validity more thurowly
2882 2011-05-18 17:51:35 <wumpus> and deepbit is too big and dangerous
2883 2011-05-18 17:51:53 <UukGoblin> answer: go solo!
2884 2011-05-18 17:52:10 <horb> "Will only include transactions in its blocks if the sender pays a fee of at least 0.00004096 BTC per 512 bytes. "
2885 2011-05-18 17:52:15 ezl has joined
2886 2011-05-18 17:52:17 <horb> arent most tx no-fee now?
2887 2011-05-18 17:52:19 <lfm> thats what I do, solo miners nave no need to trust pool admins
2888 2011-05-18 17:52:59 <lfm> horb Y i think the majority of txn are still free but there are more fees now than ever has been
2889 2011-05-18 17:53:16 <UukGoblin> btw, a p2p "no trust required" pool project would be interesting
2890 2011-05-18 17:53:34 <horb> i think the other pool (slush?) pays for partial work, so at least you have some "guarantee" you arent getting scammed - no need to trust that the pool admin is playing fair
2891 2011-05-18 17:53:54 <UukGoblin> yeah i'm getting like 0.25 btc per block in fees these days, awesome.
2892 2011-05-18 17:53:57 sethsethseth_ has joined
2893 2011-05-18 17:54:06 <lfm> horb any pool could easily be scamming
2894 2011-05-18 17:54:28 sethsethseth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2895 2011-05-18 17:55:27 <wumpus> you can count how many shares you submitted and how much you get paid out, right? so you cancheck if they are scamming
2896 2011-05-18 17:56:02 sethsethseth__ has joined
2897 2011-05-18 17:56:18 sethsethseth__ is now known as sethsethseth
2898 2011-05-18 17:56:36 <lfm> horb simply have some private accounts with fake shares for the admin
2899 2011-05-18 17:57:02 Schematografter has joined
2900 2011-05-18 17:57:23 <horb> an arms race with ever ratcheting-fees would probably not be a good thing.. this introduces uncertainty as to whether or not a merchant has "bid" high enough to get his tx counted
2901 2011-05-18 17:57:39 <horb> dont they pay a fixed amount per unit of work?
2902 2011-05-18 17:58:25 <lfm> horb: based on a random sample it should be close to the proportion of work done
2903 2011-05-18 17:59:34 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2904 2011-05-18 17:59:47 Schematografter has quit (Client Quit)
2905 2011-05-18 18:01:33 <horb> interesting
2906 2011-05-18 18:02:15 <horb> you could eventually build pooling into the protocol itself, and obviate the need for a trusted pool admin
2907 2011-05-18 18:02:41 <lfm> horb you understand who the mining works, how any single hash could be valid worht 50btc and you do thousands per sec?
2908 2011-05-18 18:03:54 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2909 2011-05-18 18:05:08 <diki> stale shares have been popping in quite a lot lately
2910 2011-05-18 18:05:13 <diki> any reason to this?
2911 2011-05-18 18:05:15 <horb> slushs pool is calculated like this (50 BTC - 1 BTC fee) * (shares found by user's workers) / (total shares in current round)
2912 2011-05-18 18:05:21 <diki> i currently have 148 stale shares
2913 2011-05-18 18:05:44 <lfm> diki maybe there is a botleneck slowing do communications somewhere
2914 2011-05-18 18:06:01 <diki> well i do have utorrent running on both my pcs
2915 2011-05-18 18:06:06 <UukGoblin> lfm, well if an admin created priv shares you could see that longer-term by checking the amount of blocks generated
2916 2011-05-18 18:06:13 <horb> if you could inspect the total shares (randomly select a few records to verify) that might give you some confidence that the total share count isnt being artificially inflated by an unscrupulous admin
2917 2011-05-18 18:06:18 <UukGoblin> there should be some software that automates this
2918 2011-05-18 18:06:21 <quup> I found a bitcoin python wrapper, but it has stuff like _cmd("sendtoaddress %s %.2f %s %s" % (bitcoinaddress, amount, comment, comment_to)) that "%.2f" is bonkers right?
2919 2011-05-18 18:06:30 <quup> don't I want at least .8f
2920 2011-05-18 18:06:41 <ArtForz> yea, .8f imo
2921 2011-05-18 18:06:43 <diki> f means float btw
2922 2011-05-18 18:06:51 <Jere_Jones> diki: what percentage of your shares are stale?
2923 2011-05-18 18:06:56 <Mookman288> diki I have a stale share percentage of 6.45%. I peaked at ~15% last night.
2924 2011-05-18 18:07:01 <wumpus> quup: you should use the json interface, not a wrapper around the command
2925 2011-05-18 18:07:02 <ArtForz> yoeowch
2926 2011-05-18 18:07:03 <diki> im at slush's pool
2927 2011-05-18 18:07:05 <lfm> UukGoblin: ya, true, depending how many fake shares he inserts would influence how long it would take to detect
2928 2011-05-18 18:07:08 <diki> and using guiminer
2929 2011-05-18 18:07:12 <diki> so not percentage
2930 2011-05-18 18:07:22 <ArtForz> > 1% stales = fail, imo
2931 2011-05-18 18:07:24 <Mookman288> I can only give you percentage as a comparison to me.
2932 2011-05-18 18:07:29 <diki> From 11458 shares, 148 are stale
2933 2011-05-18 18:07:37 <quup> wumpus: couldn't find any decent one, might replace the backend once one becomes available
2934 2011-05-18 18:07:44 <UukGoblin> btw, looks like 0.3.21 is still dropping my balance < 0.01 whenever i send a tx
2935 2011-05-18 18:08:06 <wumpus> quup: http://toomanysecrets0.github.com/bitcoin-python/doc/
2936 2011-05-18 18:08:13 <quup> wumpus: doesn't do ssl
2937 2011-05-18 18:08:16 <horb> you record all the shares in a text file, then to verify it you check a small % of lines.. you can get 99.99% confidence that each share is indeed a valid proof of work
2938 2011-05-18 18:08:17 <Jere_Jones> diki: Take the number in paren under stale and divide it by the number in paren under accepted.
2939 2011-05-18 18:08:18 <UukGoblin> is that desired?
2940 2011-05-18 18:08:22 <lfm> diki thats not much more than 1%
2941 2011-05-18 18:08:27 <diki> paren?
2942 2011-05-18 18:08:41 <wumpus> quup: hm do you need that?
2943 2011-05-18 18:08:54 <horb> so.. no way to insert fake shares
2944 2011-05-18 18:08:55 Moonies has quit (Quit: quack)
2945 2011-05-18 18:09:00 <Jere_Jones> parentheses
2946 2011-05-18 18:09:01 <horb> as long as everyone can inspect the work product
2947 2011-05-18 18:09:02 Chay has joined
2948 2011-05-18 18:09:10 <Chay> hihi everyone
2949 2011-05-18 18:09:10 <theorbtwo> How does one find how many stale shares you have?
2950 2011-05-18 18:09:11 <lfm> horb: huh? why not?
2951 2011-05-18 18:09:13 Moonies has joined
2952 2011-05-18 18:09:15 <quup> wumpus: yea, I'd prefer to have the bitcoind running on another machine, but since I coludn't find proper json client with ssl I decided to run it locally
2953 2011-05-18 18:09:32 <wumpus> quup: ok I could add ssl pretty easily
2954 2011-05-18 18:09:42 <Chay> does anyone knowof a bitcoin plugin for CREloaded?
2955 2011-05-18 18:09:48 <UukGoblin> i mean when i get 50.005 from a generation and then do a tx for 50.000 to my other account, should the 0.005 be lost to a tx fee?
2956 2011-05-18 18:09:48 <quup> wumpus: that also verifies the certificate is properly signed?
2957 2011-05-18 18:09:50 <lfm> horb: oh if the admin does record every share then ya you could check
2958 2011-05-18 18:09:51 <horb> lfm: if you give me a file and say there are 1M shares in it.. i can test a few lines randomly to see if you're telling the truth
2959 2011-05-18 18:09:53 <horb> yeah
2960 2011-05-18 18:09:54 <diki> i get 45
2961 2011-05-18 18:10:04 <UukGoblin> ah i guess maybe yes
2962 2011-05-18 18:10:16 <wumpus> quup: I guess it'd need to check the public key, yes
2963 2011-05-18 18:10:20 <quup> wumpus: or that can take a public-key file as argument that it accepts too would do
2964 2011-05-18 18:10:23 <lfm> horb: you could prolly check them all really
2965 2011-05-18 18:10:24 <horb> i dont know that any pool currently works that way now
2966 2011-05-18 18:10:24 <ninjaneo> horb if you dont check every share, you have no way of knowing if they're all valid, or just some are
2967 2011-05-18 18:10:26 <Jere_Jones> diki: I think you divided the wrong way. Divide the small number by the big number.
2968 2011-05-18 18:10:26 <wumpus> quup: otherwise it's pretty useless
2969 2011-05-18 18:10:43 <quup> wumpus: yea :) seen way to many python code that silently ignores ssl errors is why it poped into my mind
2970 2011-05-18 18:10:46 <UukGoblin> could i transfer the whole 50.005 though?
2971 2011-05-18 18:10:51 <horb> ninjaneo: probability... you just need a statistically significant sample to have near perfect confidence
2972 2011-05-18 18:10:55 <diki> 0.02
2973 2011-05-18 18:11:12 TD_ has joined
2974 2011-05-18 18:11:16 <Jere_Jones> diki: So your stale percentage is 2%. And that is reasonable.
2975 2011-05-18 18:11:33 <wumpus> quup: I don't think that's specific to python code :p many people think https is some magic wrapper making things secure
2976 2011-05-18 18:11:44 <quup> wumpus: heh, yea
2977 2011-05-18 18:11:48 <horb> i.e., he couldn't inflate the shares by any significant amount (burying 1 invalid share wouldn't be profitable).. lets say he infaltes by 10%, you then have a 1/10 chance of detecting bogus shares
2978 2011-05-18 18:11:57 <horb> per record you check
2979 2011-05-18 18:12:21 m00p has joined
2980 2011-05-18 18:12:23 <horb> so if you want to ensure theres <1% fraud, check 100 records
2981 2011-05-18 18:12:25 <lfm> the log would be about 200k * 80 bytes and youd just need to verify 200k hashes which most machines could do in one sec
2982 2011-05-18 18:12:31 <ninjaneo> yeah but if you check 2 random shares you only have a 1/100 chance that they're both faked
2983 2011-05-18 18:12:45 <ninjaneo> your math is fail
2984 2011-05-18 18:12:50 <horb> umm no..
2985 2011-05-18 18:13:17 Chay has quit (Client Quit)
2986 2011-05-18 18:13:40 ArtForzZz has joined
2987 2011-05-18 18:13:46 sethsethseth is now known as username
2988 2011-05-18 18:13:56 <lfm> depending what dificulty the shares are at
2989 2011-05-18 18:13:56 <quup> wumpus: I tried adding sll support to that library but got fed up with python ssl support and PKCS#12 problems and decided to get back to doing what I was doing before :)
2990 2011-05-18 18:14:12 username is now known as sethsethseth
2991 2011-05-18 18:14:34 <ninjaneo> umm... yesss? you gave the example 10%. 10% * 10% = 1%
2992 2011-05-18 18:15:20 <quup> wumpus: this was pretty much what I ran into: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2630011/error-using-httlibs-httpsconnection-with-pkcs12-certificate
2993 2011-05-18 18:15:25 <horb> heh you dont multiply when summing probabilities
2994 2011-05-18 18:15:50 <ninjaneo> you do if you want to find the probability of 2 occurances
2995 2011-05-18 18:15:50 <lfm> horb: 10% of 10%?
2996 2011-05-18 18:16:01 <wumpus> quup: well I've worked with python ssl support before, at least for point-to-point for remote logging, but never used the CA trust heirarchy, but I guess that's not needed here either
2997 2011-05-18 18:16:37 <quup> wumpus: yea, seems a bit overkill with CA stuff
2998 2011-05-18 18:16:48 <horb> ok try this example: if 1% of the share are bogus, each record you check has a 1% chance of revealing a counterfeit.. if you check 100 records, your chances of getting *at least one* counterfeit is 1. (.01 + .01 + .01 ... 100 times)
2999 2011-05-18 18:16:50 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3000 2011-05-18 18:17:01 <wumpus> also makes it less secure instead of more secure as you're suddenly trusting all the world's CAs
3001 2011-05-18 18:17:29 <ArtForzZz> horb: wrong
3002 2011-05-18 18:17:48 <quup> horb: so your probability in 1000 records is? ;)
3003 2011-05-18 18:18:10 <ArtForzZz> 0.0043% or so
3004 2011-05-18 18:18:18 <quup> sounds about right
3005 2011-05-18 18:18:18 <lfm> horb should be 1-99%^100
3006 2011-05-18 18:19:04 <ninjaneo> 63% chance
3007 2011-05-18 18:19:16 <ArtForzZz> that'd be for 100
3008 2011-05-18 18:19:19 <ninjaneo> yup
3009 2011-05-18 18:19:21 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3010 2011-05-18 18:19:23 <horb> oh yes youre right
3011 2011-05-18 18:19:36 <horb> so how many do you need to check to be at 99.999% certainty? probably around 1,000
3012 2011-05-18 18:19:50 <ninjaneo> almost all of them
3013 2011-05-18 18:19:50 <ninjaneo> lol
3014 2011-05-18 18:19:52 <quup> a lot
3015 2011-05-18 18:20:03 <horb> no
3016 2011-05-18 18:20:03 <ArtForzZz> 1200 or so
3017 2011-05-18 18:20:03 <quup> each digit of precition costs a lot in terms of how many more samples you need
3018 2011-05-18 18:20:08 <lfm> like i SADI YOU MIGHT AS WELL CHECK THEM ALL, IT DOESNT TAKE LONG
3019 2011-05-18 18:20:14 <ArtForzZz> yep
3020 2011-05-18 18:20:14 <lfm> DAM CAPS
3021 2011-05-18 18:20:23 <horb> 1200?
3022 2011-05-18 18:20:29 <horb> wait it depends on the size of the data set
3023 2011-05-18 18:20:36 <ArtForzZz> as shares are only 1/2**32 of hashrate, theres not that many
3024 2011-05-18 18:20:52 Moonies has joined
3025 2011-05-18 18:21:12 <horb> you dont need more than 95% confidence really, since every other pool member is going to be checking as well
3026 2011-05-18 18:21:15 <lfm> horbyes, there should be (assuming shares are difficulty 1) number difficulty shares (150k)
3027 2011-05-18 18:22:02 <wumpus> quup: the problem in that thread seems to be that python calls the openssl calll that only acceps PEM certificates, not PKCS ones, so you'll need to convert it to PEM to use it with python (I suppose you can do that with some openssl command line command)
3028 2011-05-18 18:22:19 <lfm> horb: but, dont you hear me? it would take only a second or two to check them all, why bother with a sample
3029 2011-05-18 18:22:43 <horb> lfm: why narrowly restrict the size of shares?
3030 2011-05-18 18:22:47 <horb> or the difficulty
3031 2011-05-18 18:23:04 <lfm> horb: it only gets easier, not harder
3032 2011-05-18 18:23:09 <wumpus> quup: I've always used PEM certs so I didn't know the problem
3033 2011-05-18 18:23:34 <horb> if you checked 1000 shares (and 1% were bogus) you're already at 99.99% certainty.. why go beyond that, when everyone is doing the same check
3034 2011-05-18 18:23:34 <quup> wumpus: ye that's how I interpreted it too
3035 2011-05-18 18:23:50 Schematografter has joined
3036 2011-05-18 18:23:59 <lfm> horb if any ARE BOGUS YOU KNOW THE POOL IS NOT RIGHT
3037 2011-05-18 18:24:25 <wumpus> quup: but yeah if it's an inherent python problem the library can't solve it either (though there are more python bindings to openssl, that might support a larger subset of the calls)
3038 2011-05-18 18:24:39 <ninjaneo> has anyone made a client that sends the proof of work, other clients have sent
3039 2011-05-18 18:24:55 <lfm> if one share is bogus, the pool admin is not doing the pool right
3040 2011-05-18 18:24:57 <horb> lfm: checking everything is more tim consuming and puts limits on the min. difficulty of a share... by contrast, checking only 1000 shares would be trivial
3041 2011-05-18 18:25:25 guiklb has joined
3042 2011-05-18 18:25:26 <lfm> horb 2 seconds avery 10 minutes is not "time consuming"!
3043 2011-05-18 18:25:32 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3044 2011-05-18 18:25:35 bnzdg has joined
3045 2011-05-18 18:25:54 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r669eeed62053 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/Market/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Market: add initial plugin implementation for mtgox order book aggregation. Thanks remote! http://tinyurl.com/6d3tpo2
3046 2011-05-18 18:25:56 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r5f739eddb749 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/Market/ (plugin.py test.py): Market: make bids/asks two-sided, add prettified ticker. http://tinyurl.com/6xfzmgp
3047 2011-05-18 18:26:44 <horb> lfm - true.. but why not let ppl do even lower difficulty hashes.... (less volatility in the # of work units you can produce)
3048 2011-05-18 18:26:48 <horb> http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm
3049 2011-05-18 18:26:59 <ninjaneo> is the proof of work specific to a client
3050 2011-05-18 18:27:02 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3051 2011-05-18 18:27:09 <ninjaneo> or could cheaters conspire and send the same proof
3052 2011-05-18 18:27:22 <lfm> horb the nature of bitcoin means the minimum difficulty for all practiacl purposes is 1.
3053 2011-05-18 18:28:05 <wumpus> quup: https://launchpad.net/pyopenssl I meant
3054 2011-05-18 18:28:10 <Jere_Jones> ;;btc,stats
3055 2011-05-18 18:28:11 <gribble> Error: "btc,stats" is not a valid command.
3056 2011-05-18 18:28:15 <horb> lfm, conceivably you could come up with even easier hashes
3057 2011-05-18 18:28:19 <horb> than the simple prefix
3058 2011-05-18 18:28:29 <horb> tho i dont think its a big deal
3059 2011-05-18 18:28:44 <horb> but hey any pool you can certify would be great
3060 2011-05-18 18:28:50 guibw has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3061 2011-05-18 18:29:06 <lfm> horb well yes, the testnet has used hashes smaller than 1 but some miners ignore that and test the full word of zeros anyway
3062 2011-05-18 18:29:06 Xunie has joined
3063 2011-05-18 18:29:45 <horb> will the pool operators release the share infoz
3064 2011-05-18 18:30:01 <lfm> horb: the trend is to use share difficulties greater than 1 like 10 or so to reduce share traffic
3065 2011-05-18 18:30:07 <horb> yeah makes sense
3066 2011-05-18 18:30:25 <ninjaneo> is proof of work unique to a client of a pool or can it be duplicated by others
3067 2011-05-18 18:30:53 <lfm> ninjaneo: proof of work is used for solo mining too
3068 2011-05-18 18:31:09 <ninjaneo> orly the meta hashes?
3069 2011-05-18 18:31:18 * ninjaneo will have to do some reading
3070 2011-05-18 18:31:42 <horb> the tx block contains the bounty to the pool, so it would be unique to the pool right?/
3071 2011-05-18 18:32:16 <lfm> horb ya the "coinbase" txn
3072 2011-05-18 18:32:21 SerajewelKS has quit (Quit: Hardware maintenance)
3073 2011-05-18 18:32:21 eao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3074 2011-05-18 18:32:43 <ninjaneo> im wondering if there isn't a way for people to cheat pools, get more than their fair share, by 'giving away the answers'
3075 2011-05-18 18:33:07 <horb> you cannot send the same share to diff pools (since the coinbase thingy)
3076 2011-05-18 18:33:21 <ninjaneo> well what about the same pool
3077 2011-05-18 18:33:22 <lfm> horb: txn output adddress is part of the txn so each pool or solo miner has a unique address -> txn -> block header
3078 2011-05-18 18:33:26 <ninjaneo> you give your answer to your 'friend'
3079 2011-05-18 18:33:27 <horb> so you couldnt pretend to do more work than you did
3080 2011-05-18 18:33:27 <horb> ahh
3081 2011-05-18 18:33:30 <ninjaneo> and he gets credit too
3082 2011-05-18 18:35:26 <horb> that wouldnt really harm anyone... if the winner wants to share his reward
3083 2011-05-18 18:35:55 <ninjaneo> well i mean just for whatever mechanism determines the payout percentage
3084 2011-05-18 18:36:07 <horb> you could potentially *sabotage* a pool, but generating a shitload of shares and skipping the real solution when you find it
3085 2011-05-18 18:36:29 <ninjaneo> yeah, keep it for yourself
3086 2011-05-18 18:37:12 <ninjaneo> but seperate from that, you submit your "non winners" too, and it says ok you're doing a % of the work
3087 2011-05-18 18:37:16 <lfm> ninjaneo: not really
3088 2011-05-18 18:38:05 <lfm> ninjaneo: that would just be like runing a solo miner AND a pool miner on your machine, it would take twice as long
3089 2011-05-18 18:38:15 <ninjaneo> ah
3090 2011-05-18 18:39:30 eoss has joined
3091 2011-05-18 18:39:45 <lfm> ninjaneo: theres no way to take over a pool block header since you dont have the coinbase txn that its based on
3092 2011-05-18 18:39:59 <ninjaneo> the work i do for a pool, when not finding blocks, counts too, because it determines the percentage of the block i will recieve, im wondering if i can't share my meta hashes with some other person in the pool, to increase our share of the pool
3093 2011-05-18 18:40:54 <lfm> ninjaneo: if the pool is done right no two miners have the same block to work on
3094 2011-05-18 18:41:17 <lfm> ninjaneo: that would just be a wasted effort
3095 2011-05-18 18:41:21 <ninjaneo> ah ok, and the pool would realize it was getting work assigned to a different block
3096 2011-05-18 18:41:32 <lfm> ninjaneo: it should ya
3097 2011-05-18 18:41:34 Astriks has joined
3098 2011-05-18 18:41:38 <ninjaneo> good =p
3099 2011-05-18 18:41:43 <lfm> or it would notice duplicates
3100 2011-05-18 18:43:07 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3101 2011-05-18 18:43:22 <ninjaneo> just wasn't sure if the popular pools were recording all the work done etc
3102 2011-05-18 18:44:24 <lfm> ninjaneo: I dont think they really do but there are some checks done, mybe secret checks for security reasons
3103 2011-05-18 18:44:41 <ninjaneo> maybe ill have to try and audit it =p
3104 2011-05-18 18:45:11 <ninjaneo> because im sure they thought of a user submitting the same work, but they might only check if that user has submitted that work, opposed to any worker
3105 2011-05-18 18:45:11 <ArtForzZz> lfm: dont see why not
3106 2011-05-18 18:45:37 <ArtForzZz> you only need to store a few M or so worst case
3107 2011-05-18 18:46:55 <lfm> ArtForzZz: I suspect some of them only keep running totals of shares, not sure how much checking theyd do for duplicates and stuff
3108 2011-05-18 18:47:10 <ninjaneo> ;p especially if they code these pools themselves
3109 2011-05-18 18:48:36 <lfm> might be worth auditig some of the open source pool managers to see but I am not particularly motivated since I dont do pools myself
3110 2011-05-18 18:50:17 <Astriks> what is happening on the LFnet channel?
3111 2011-05-18 18:51:32 <sacarlson> Astriks: somebody said they saw 7000 connections on lfnet
3112 2011-05-18 18:52:38 <sacarlson> from what I know those would be only connections that just connected within 12 hours or so since my ip changes about that often
3113 2011-05-18 18:55:44 zylche has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3114 2011-05-18 18:56:19 <lfm> sacarlson: lots of people have longer lasting connections
3115 2011-05-18 18:57:06 <ninjaneo> ive had the same dynamically assigned ip for months =p
3116 2011-05-18 18:57:10 <sacarlson> lrm: true
3117 2011-05-18 18:58:28 <sacarlson> lrm: but I guess some people work 8 hours and then turn them off? all I do know is longer dhcp active units will disconect and never reconect
3118 2011-05-18 18:59:12 <sacarlson> I assumed that's why we normaly only had on average 3000 connections on IRC
3119 2011-05-18 19:00:08 Schematografter is now known as Moonies
3120 2011-05-18 19:00:34 <ninjaneo> * 72605 72705 :Current global users 72605, max 72705
3121 2011-05-18 19:02:46 <sacarlson> ninjaneo: is that measurement over one day or one year or ?
3122 2011-05-18 19:03:06 <ninjaneo> thats current freenode users
3123 2011-05-18 19:03:10 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-240-204-81.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
3124 2011-05-18 19:04:12 <sacarlson> ninjaneo: so they must have been mistaken you say we on bitcoin were 10% of all the connections on freenet? oh we aren't even a part of freenet anymore
3125 2011-05-18 19:04:37 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3126 2011-05-18 19:04:45 <ninjaneo> do /lusers
3127 2011-05-18 19:05:12 <sacarlson> ninjaneo: you calling me a luuuuzer?
3128 2011-05-18 19:05:19 <sacarlson> ninjaneo: just kiding
3129 2011-05-18 19:05:22 <ninjaneo> lol
3130 2011-05-18 19:05:26 <ninjaneo> L7
3131 2011-05-18 19:05:56 <sacarlson> do in thai is look at
3132 2011-05-18 19:06:10 DuoSRX has joined
3133 2011-05-18 19:06:16 <sacarlson> ninjaneo: so you said look at the looozer
3134 2011-05-18 19:06:18 DuoSRX has quit (Client Quit)
3135 2011-05-18 19:07:01 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
3136 2011-05-18 19:07:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124955 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 36 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 hours, 27 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 243322.61644186
3137 2011-05-18 19:07:04 FabianB_ has joined
3138 2011-05-18 19:08:26 zylche has joined
3139 2011-05-18 19:08:42 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|I need some help with gettin the btc client to run, getting segfaults on exit, no menu works. See: http://pastebin.com/wzY5VmdF
3140 2011-05-18 19:09:04 <UukGoblin> bitcoincharts.com 502s
3141 2011-05-18 19:09:10 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3142 2011-05-18 19:09:10 <UukGoblin> tcatm, that's your isn't it?
3143 2011-05-18 19:09:35 <sacarlson> :::bc, stats weeds = blocks=1513 difficulty=1.00000
3144 2011-05-18 19:10:11 <JFK911> uuk its been giving that sometimes for a while
3145 2011-05-18 19:10:15 <JFK911> it will work after some patience
3146 2011-05-18 19:10:38 <JFK911> me, i set my auto-repeat to fastest, and put my digital camera on the f5 key
3147 2011-05-18 19:10:48 <UukGoblin> lol
3148 2011-05-18 19:11:54 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: I guess 64bit isn't supported yet
3149 2011-05-18 19:12:14 vikarti has joined
3150 2011-05-18 19:12:33 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: I'll put that on my list 64bit ubuntu and debian support
3151 2011-05-18 19:12:45 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|sacarlson, so I was lucky on lucid 64bit? (btc started failing when upgraded to natty)
3152 2011-05-18 19:13:18 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: I think so you must of had the 32bit libs installed
3153 2011-05-18 19:13:34 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|hmm
3154 2011-05-18 19:13:53 <quup> so what's recommended way to handle money units from the json interface?
3155 2011-05-18 19:14:01 * Marcel HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|goes forcing it 32bit
3156 2011-05-18 19:14:13 <quup> do I immidatly convert it to integer or keep it as float because damadge already done?
3157 2011-05-18 19:14:13 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: I had 64bit ubuntu installed for 8.04 and had many problems with support
3158 2011-05-18 19:15:28 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|sacarlson, ok, this will give me some things to try to get it working, thanks
3159 2011-05-18 19:15:31 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: ubuntu also has problems with wx libs even in 10.04 - 11 ubuntu
3160 2011-05-18 19:15:49 <quup> is there some good BTC money handling coding guide?
3161 2011-05-18 19:16:03 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: well you can also run virtualbox in 32bit from 64bit install
3162 2011-05-18 19:16:09 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|yeah
3163 2011-05-18 19:16:18 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|that is /one/ of those things :D
3164 2011-05-18 19:16:32 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: what problems does ubuntu have with wx libs?
3165 2011-05-18 19:16:59 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: only problem I know is we don't have packages even in ppa for it
3166 2011-05-18 19:17:04 TD has quit (Disconnected by services)
3167 2011-05-18 19:17:05 TD_ is now known as TD
3168 2011-05-18 19:17:19 TDX_ has joined
3169 2011-05-18 19:17:30 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: but that is not an ubuntu/wx bug thats a bitcoin bug
3170 2011-05-18 19:17:58 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: no that's not a bug that's a support isue
3171 2011-05-18 19:18:20 <BlueMatt> no its not, its not requred that they support development, highly beta versions of software
3172 2011-05-18 19:18:33 <BlueMatt> in fact, its unrecommended by wx itself, hence the "development" tag
3173 2011-05-18 19:18:50 <BlueMatt> hence its not included in really _any_ distros not just ubuntu
3174 2011-05-18 19:19:06 <BlueMatt> so really, ubuntu is doing what they are supposed to...bitcoin isnt
3175 2011-05-18 19:19:12 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: well I guess it works good in windows
3176 2011-05-18 19:19:32 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: and I guess windows rules
3177 2011-05-18 19:19:45 <BlueMatt> thats because windows users expect their libs static linked...which is just poor design decision on the part of windows
3178 2011-05-18 19:20:12 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: so does qt libs run in windows?
3179 2011-05-18 19:20:27 <BlueMatt> static linked 90% of the time, the other 10 shipped with the program
3180 2011-05-18 19:20:33 <BlueMatt> which is just a bad idea
3181 2011-05-18 19:20:35 <diki> does anybody know the packer used in Crysis 2?
3182 2011-05-18 19:20:51 <diki> i tried a lot of tricks to dump the process, but the unpacked exe i was unable
3183 2011-05-18 19:21:14 <BlueMatt> google?
3184 2011-05-18 19:21:19 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: well it's all just a numbers game who can you support the most with the least effort
3185 2011-05-18 19:21:33 <diki> google doesnt help
3186 2011-05-18 19:21:37 <BlueMatt> I really, really doubt anyone on #bitcoin-dev knows much about the Crysis 2 packager
3187 2011-05-18 19:21:40 <diki> it's a custom packer tho
3188 2011-05-18 19:22:01 <TD> why would we want to help you break the copy protection on a video game?
3189 2011-05-18 19:22:02 <diki> since peid,pID don't recognize it
3190 2011-05-18 19:22:11 <BlueMatt> TD: lol
3191 2011-05-18 19:22:14 <diki> because?
3192 2011-05-18 19:22:23 <diki> bitcoin is more or less the same thing
3193 2011-05-18 19:22:32 <diki> the lengths one goes too
3194 2011-05-18 19:22:35 <diki> *to
3195 2011-05-18 19:22:40 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: yes, but it ends up causing issues in the long run...look at all the effort m$ has to put in to supporting all the old ui libs and such for each new version of windows
3196 2011-05-18 19:22:48 <BlueMatt> modular libs makes it much, much easier
3197 2011-05-18 19:22:55 <diki> almost everybody here is using a torrent client right now
3198 2011-05-18 19:23:03 bnzdg has left ()
3199 2011-05-18 19:23:09 <BlueMatt> it also means security flaws in the libs doesnt mean each app has to update ,but just the lib (more a problem in net libs, but you get the point)
3200 2011-05-18 19:23:27 <BlueMatt> diki: p2p != torrents, not by a long run
3201 2011-05-18 19:23:43 pnicholson has joined
3202 2011-05-18 19:23:43 <BlueMatt> thats like saying torrents == illegal, which is also wrong...
3203 2011-05-18 19:23:54 <diki> p2p has long been connected to torrents
3204 2011-05-18 19:24:02 <diki> when someone says p2p...torrents come to mind
3205 2011-05-18 19:24:18 <diki> I just love downloading lol
3206 2011-05-18 19:24:29 <diki> terabytes of traffic per month for me
3207 2011-05-18 19:24:32 <BlueMatt> yes, but as I said, just because torrents are one of the most popular form of p2p, doesnt mean torrents are the only form
3208 2011-05-18 19:24:47 <BlueMatt> just like torrents are illegal, they arent its just a popular use for
3209 2011-05-18 19:24:53 <Diablo-D3> p2p existed long before torrents
3210 2011-05-18 19:24:57 <BlueMatt> yep
3211 2011-05-18 19:25:21 <Speeder> OMG
3212 2011-05-18 19:25:25 <Speeder> BTC PRICE FALLING!!!
3213 2011-05-18 19:25:26 <diki> And the best thing is when you have access to the scene
3214 2011-05-18 19:25:26 <Speeder> AAAAAH
3215 2011-05-18 19:25:30 <Speeder> THE SKY IS FALLING
3216 2011-05-18 19:25:37 <diki> the scene gives you everything
3217 2011-05-18 19:25:38 <BlueMatt> oo, I need to go buy some
3218 2011-05-18 19:25:39 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I guess we just need some simple long lasting gui interface platform java rpc ? but must cause all kinds of security problems
3219 2011-05-18 19:25:42 <Speeder> ok, not really, only that I bought 100 BTC at 8...
3220 2011-05-18 19:25:46 <diki> it's hard to get to it tho
3221 2011-05-18 19:25:47 <Speeder> thus I feel screwed
3222 2011-05-18 19:26:02 <tcatm> UukGoblin: I'm working on a fix
3223 2011-05-18 19:26:12 <UukGoblin> tcatm, cool thanks
3224 2011-05-18 19:26:19 krekbwoy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3225 2011-05-18 19:26:30 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: java with rpc https or encrypted ?
3226 2011-05-18 19:26:31 <Speeder> tcatm: hey, you are here :D
3227 2011-05-18 19:26:36 <diki> ;;bc,stats
3228 2011-05-18 19:26:37 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: the point is simply that dynamically linked libraries is a much better design overall, windows did it, but not fully
3229 2011-05-18 19:26:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124958 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 33 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 hours, 9 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 243156.60786650
3230 2011-05-18 19:26:43 <diki> ;;bc,stats
3231 2011-05-18 19:26:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124958 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 33 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 hours, 9 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 243156.60786650
3232 2011-05-18 19:26:47 <Speeder> tcatm: I am grateful for your invite, and I wish your site was more stable
3233 2011-05-18 19:27:00 <diki> ;;auth diki
3234 2011-05-18 19:27:00 <gribble> Request successful for user diki, hostmask diki!2e287efd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.40.126.253. Your challenge string is: freenode:#bitcoin-otc:4240b0df0e5c2e7cc93f7ede81a1ee90f2561b83067296665965688a0a139270
3235 2011-05-18 19:27:07 <diki> not working?
3236 2011-05-18 19:27:14 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: but long lasting let java do the upgrades of different platforms
3237 2011-05-18 19:27:26 <BlueMatt> java is a terrible example here
3238 2011-05-18 19:27:33 <BlueMatt> java isnt an os to begin with
3239 2011-05-18 19:27:35 <tcatm> Speeder: I wish, too. And I'm very close to finding the bottleneck.
3240 2011-05-18 19:27:39 <diki> java...sucks
3241 2011-05-18 19:27:58 <BlueMatt> java is for the sake of argument here, a library
3242 2011-05-18 19:28:04 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: no it's just the gui to interface to the server on each platform maybe
3243 2011-05-18 19:28:09 <BlueMatt> hence it is exactly what Im saying should be
3244 2011-05-18 19:28:20 <BlueMatt> but its a very, very slow library so not really
3245 2011-05-18 19:28:39 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: if you want to rewrite bitcoin's gui in any other language, feel free
3246 2011-05-18 19:28:46 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: too slow to be a gui interface to a server?
3247 2011-05-18 19:28:56 <diki> i sure wish the new graphene transistors come soon
3248 2011-05-18 19:29:02 <diki> the speed...the temps
3249 2011-05-18 19:29:14 <BlueMatt> what are you even talking about anymore, I was simply pointing out that DLL's are much better design than static
3250 2011-05-18 19:29:26 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: we already have the help of google you don't need me to help you with java
3251 2011-05-18 19:29:35 <BlueMatt> hence even though bitcoin works better on win, its worse design
3252 2011-05-18 19:29:54 brocktice has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3253 2011-05-18 19:29:56 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: welcome to floss, no one is going to put in that much work to fix something that is only somewhat broken
3254 2011-05-18 19:30:00 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3255 2011-05-18 19:30:06 larsivi has joined
3256 2011-05-18 19:30:27 <diki> Yeah...i remember when i tried cracking minecraft
3257 2011-05-18 19:30:28 sytse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3258 2011-05-18 19:30:30 <diki> quite the recompiling i did
3259 2011-05-18 19:30:31 brocktice has joined
3260 2011-05-18 19:30:40 brocktice has quit (Changing host)
3261 2011-05-18 19:30:40 brocktice has joined
3262 2011-05-18 19:30:41 <BlueMatt> and especially not if it doesnt effect the developers
3263 2011-05-18 19:31:04 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: yes I agree, but we use what we have so the python method might work for linux if python takes care of upgrades
3264 2011-05-18 19:31:17 <BlueMatt> wtf are you talking about anymore?
3265 2011-05-18 19:31:25 <diki> java and cracking
3266 2011-05-18 19:31:32 <BlueMatt> not you, sacarlson
3267 2011-05-18 19:31:47 <Speeder> I wonder if the message BCM just sent me was automated or dwolla really wrote it
3268 2011-05-18 19:32:23 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I'm talking about keeping the gui interface over multi platform stable over time with changes in each with upgrades that can break them
3269 2011-05-18 19:32:40 <BlueMatt> you just use a library, wx works fine for that
3270 2011-05-18 19:32:45 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: oh
3271 2011-05-18 19:32:49 <BlueMatt> (if we didnt use a development release)
3272 2011-05-18 19:33:02 diki has left ()
3273 2011-05-18 19:33:26 diki has joined
3274 2011-05-18 19:33:30 guest78463 has joined
3275 2011-05-18 19:33:33 <diki> back in mirc
3276 2011-05-18 19:34:14 <guest78463> are there any good resources for understanding how pool's work? like with code examples etc for the "giving individual miners simple problems to solve"
3277 2011-05-18 19:34:28 <BlueMatt> guest78463: the wiki
3278 2011-05-18 19:34:29 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: well I'm new to the whole gui thing as far as upgrades so that's all I can say
3279 2011-05-18 19:34:31 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|sacarlson, not sure if this i helpful but with export MALLOC_CHECK=0 ./bitcoin the error turns into : (bitcoin:3146): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_window_set_modal: assertion `GTK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed
3280 2011-05-18 19:34:31 <diki> information about pools is scarce
3281 2011-05-18 19:34:53 <BlueMatt> Marcel|HSD: what is the error?
3282 2011-05-18 19:35:26 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|BlueMatt, http://pastebin.com/wzY5VmdF
3283 2011-05-18 19:35:52 <guest78463> BlueMatt: I've been through what I think is all the docs related to generating but it doesn't go into enough detail fully grasp how to generate your own, let alone operating a pool to split work
3284 2011-05-18 19:36:04 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: >>>me<<< clueless
3285 2011-05-18 19:36:06 <diki> i told you,,
3286 2011-05-18 19:36:14 <diki> info on pools is scarce
3287 2011-05-18 19:36:38 <diki> even the dependencies list for pushpool is not as descriptive
3288 2011-05-18 19:36:48 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|sacarlson, ditto here
3289 2011-05-18 19:36:48 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: where did you get the package to install or compile?
3290 2011-05-18 19:36:56 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|git
3291 2011-05-18 19:37:06 <BlueMatt> guest78463: here: mining is just brute forcing hashes, thus each hash could be a potential solution (getting you the 50 BTC). The bitcoin network sets a difficulty to control the speed that solutions are found. The pools give you an artificially low difficulty. That way you find "solutions" more often which you submit to the pool as shares. When one of those solutions actually meets the network difficulty, the pool gets its 50 BTC and you g
3292 2011-05-18 19:37:06 <BlueMatt> et paid
3293 2011-05-18 19:37:22 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3294 2011-05-18 19:37:25 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: oh git they did alot of work on that the last 10 days
3295 2011-05-18 19:37:35 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|sacarlson, ah
3296 2011-05-18 19:37:49 skeledrew1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3297 2011-05-18 19:37:57 <BlueMatt> Marcel|HSD: want to attach gdb to that?
3298 2011-05-18 19:38:20 <guest78463> BlueMatt: brilliant explanation, thank you :D...the missing link
3299 2011-05-18 19:38:35 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|BlueMatt, sure. Note that this error appears only when i touch, say, the addressbook button and then exit the program
3300 2011-05-18 19:38:53 <BlueMatt> attach gdb?
3301 2011-05-18 19:39:16 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: you can also run the bitcoind command line version
3302 2011-05-18 19:39:25 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|BlueMatt, what you do need?
3303 2011-05-18 19:39:28 <BlueMatt> he is running it via cli
3304 2011-05-18 19:39:36 underscor has joined
3305 2011-05-18 19:39:37 <diki> still..finding a block on solo is way easier than meeting Chuck Norris and his roundhouse kick
3306 2011-05-18 19:39:38 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: that's what I've been playing with for most of the last 20 days
3307 2011-05-18 19:39:54 <BlueMatt> Marcel|HSD: gdb aka gnu debugger... attach it to running bitcoin and it can give more useful output
3308 2011-05-18 19:40:20 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|(bitcoin:3420): Gtk-CRITICAL **: IA__gtk_window_set_modal: assertion `GTK_IS_WINDOW (window)' failed
3309 2011-05-18 19:40:20 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
3310 2011-05-18 19:40:20 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|0x00007ffff61f3a88 in g_object_unref () from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgobject-2.0.so.0
3311 2011-05-18 19:40:29 <BlueMatt> guest78463: to be specific the network difficulty is ,,bc,diff harder than pool difficulty which typically just use diff 1
3312 2011-05-18 19:40:29 <gribble> 157426.20628986
3313 2011-05-18 19:40:30 <sacarlson> Marcel|HSD: I have also played with the python gui that seemed to work in ubuntu but from what I was told the last release of git broke that until now
3314 2011-05-18 19:41:44 <guest78463> BlueMatt: what do you mean? sorry you lost me a little :)
3315 2011-05-18 19:42:18 <BlueMatt> guest78463: the difficulty of the network is ,,bc,diff Pools use difficulty 1, hence, on average, one out of every ,,bc,diff shares makes a block
3316 2011-05-18 19:42:19 <gribble> 157426.20628986
3317 2011-05-18 19:42:19 <gribble> 157426.20628986
3318 2011-05-18 19:42:24 <sacarlson> you might look at the git for genjix: he has a from what I've been told a version of spesmilo that works now
3319 2011-05-18 19:42:34 Nicksasa has joined
3320 2011-05-18 19:42:45 <UukGoblin> hmm I'm running a transaction of fairly-recently received funds for 1.94555556 and I'm getting a message that a transaction fee is required - will that go away after the funds get confirmed a bit?
3321 2011-05-18 19:42:51 <diki> ;;bc,stats
3322 2011-05-18 19:42:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124964 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 27 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 34 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 243513.28090667
3323 2011-05-18 19:42:55 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: yea
3324 2011-05-18 19:42:58 <BlueMatt> wait a day or two
3325 2011-05-18 19:43:16 <UukGoblin> k thanks
3326 2011-05-18 19:43:18 <diki> ;;bc,calc 243513.28090667
3327 2011-05-18 19:43:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 243513.28090667 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 4 weeks, 4 days, 3 hours, 16 minutes, and 45 seconds
3328 2011-05-18 19:43:25 Nick__ has joined
3329 2011-05-18 19:43:33 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 243513.28090667
3330 2011-05-18 19:43:33 <gribble> (bc,calcd <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of $2, is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
3331 2011-05-18 19:43:35 Nick__ is now known as Nicksasa_
3332 2011-05-18 19:43:37 mosimo has joined
3333 2011-05-18 19:43:37 <BlueMatt> diki: when not using it to show people, can you do your calcs in pm with gribble?
3334 2011-05-18 19:43:39 Nicksasa_ is now known as Nicksasa__
3335 2011-05-18 19:44:08 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: what they subract days later? I thought maybe it was if you only did a transaction once within a block find it's free
3336 2011-05-18 19:44:11 <diki> funny...i bet if it was another user you would not ask this of him
3337 2011-05-18 19:44:22 skeledrew has joined
3338 2011-05-18 19:44:26 <BlueMatt> diki: no I ask anyone who does it repeatedly on multiple occasions ;)
3339 2011-05-18 19:45:19 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: no, the "low prio" algorithm takes into account the ago of txins, so the "you need a fee" message (which is triggered on a low prio tx) pops up on new txins
3340 2011-05-18 19:45:23 <sacarlson> my network it cost .01 for every transaction to help pay the minners since they get nothing else
3341 2011-05-18 19:46:10 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
3342 2011-05-18 19:46:28 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|BlueMatt, was that extra line useful at all?
3343 2011-05-18 19:46:53 <BlueMatt> Marcel|HSD: no, have you attached gdb yet?
3344 2011-05-18 19:47:07 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|yes
3345 2011-05-18 19:47:16 <BlueMatt> oh that was from gdb?
3346 2011-05-18 19:47:17 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
3347 2011-05-18 19:47:20 <BlueMatt> ah, well no it wasnt useful
3348 2011-05-18 19:47:35 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3349 2011-05-18 19:47:41 <BlueMatt> maybe you have a gtk problem or a wx one? did you build yourself or are they the official builds?
3350 2011-05-18 19:48:04 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|build myself, wx is 2.9.1
3351 2011-05-18 19:48:15 Nicksasa__ is now known as Nicksasa
3352 2011-05-18 19:48:19 <BlueMatt> odd, what build options did you give wx?
3353 2011-05-18 19:48:29 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|lemme check
3354 2011-05-18 19:48:33 <diki> To be honest...most users here are true developers...it's hard to find something in common...i know no c/c++ although i did make a few simple apps
3355 2011-05-18 19:48:43 <diki> hard to get into the discussion
3356 2011-05-18 19:49:08 roconnor has joined
3357 2011-05-18 19:49:09 <BlueMatt> what discussion? most of this is either off topic, about mining, or random tech support
3358 2011-05-18 19:49:12 <Nesetalis> ;;bc,mtgox
3359 2011-05-18 19:49:13 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.874,"low":6.6,"vol":29042,"buy":6.6,"sell":6.66,"last":6.6}}
3360 2011-05-18 19:49:22 <Jere_Jones> ;;bc,stats
3361 2011-05-18 19:49:24 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124965 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 26 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 28 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 243565.01334684
3362 2011-05-18 19:49:36 Lachesis has joined
3363 2011-05-18 19:50:07 <sipa> ;;bc,diff
3364 2011-05-18 19:50:09 <gribble> 157426.20628986
3365 2011-05-18 19:50:30 horb is now known as erbs
3366 2011-05-18 19:51:19 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|BlueMatt, ../configure --with-gtk --enable-debug --disable-shared --enable-monolithic
3367 2011-05-18 19:51:37 tabsa has joined
3368 2011-05-18 19:51:37 <BlueMatt> what environment?
3369 2011-05-18 19:51:56 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|ubuntu natty x86_64
3370 2011-05-18 19:52:03 BlueSTARS has joined
3371 2011-05-18 19:52:04 <sacarlson> :::bc, stats weeds Current Blocks: 1514 | Current Difficulty: 1.00000
3372 2011-05-18 19:52:22 <BlueMatt> hm, sorry really have no idea then
3373 2011-05-18 19:52:28 Lachesis has quit (Disconnected by services)
3374 2011-05-18 19:52:33 BlueSTARS is now known as lachesis
3375 2011-05-18 19:52:34 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: how many miners do you actually have?
3376 2011-05-18 19:52:45 <BlueMatt> bitcoin gui has always worked for me on natty
3377 2011-05-18 19:52:49 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|ok, wil do the bisecting then, see if I can come up with more info
3378 2011-05-18 19:52:52 octarine has joined
3379 2011-05-18 19:52:56 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: one at 300kh/sec
3380 2011-05-18 19:53:06 <BlueMatt> k or m?
3381 2011-05-18 19:53:18 <BlueMatt> 300k == one slow cpuminer
3382 2011-05-18 19:53:48 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: yes but I don't have any resorces left at the moment
3383 2011-05-18 19:54:11 <BlueMatt> ah, how many txes do you actually see?
3384 2011-05-18 19:54:22 octarine has left ()
3385 2011-05-18 19:54:22 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: it's called being poooor
3386 2011-05-18 19:55:04 lachesis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3387 2011-05-18 19:55:16 Lachesis has joined
3388 2011-05-18 19:55:18 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: you talking to me how many transactions? I never counted them
3389 2011-05-18 19:55:52 <BlueMatt> do you see much regular txes?
3390 2011-05-18 19:56:14 <gwillen> ;;bc,calc
3391 2011-05-18 19:56:14 <gribble> (bc,calc <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
3392 2011-05-18 19:56:21 <gwillen> ;;bc,calc 300000
3393 2011-05-18 19:56:21 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 3 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 3 minutes, and 21 seconds
3394 2011-05-18 19:56:30 Spyou has joined
3395 2011-05-18 19:56:53 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: when I'm personaly testing yes I normaly have about 700kh/sec that gives me 10 min transactions time for confirmation
3396 2011-05-18 19:57:15 <BlueMatt> no I mean how many transactions do you get on average per time?
3397 2011-05-18 19:57:16 <lfm> gwillen: 300000 kh/s is 3 m
3398 2011-05-18 19:57:24 <lfm> gwillen: 300000 kh/s is 300 m
3399 2011-05-18 19:57:41 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: i'm not sure give me a tool to count them
3400 2011-05-18 19:57:52 <gwillen> lfm: sorry, I wasn't actually following the conversation -- I was calculating for a gfx card I'm buying
3401 2011-05-18 19:57:57 <gwillen> I really should have done it in PM with gribble
3402 2011-05-18 19:57:59 <BlueMatt> bbe, but I suppose that doesnt work...nvm
3403 2011-05-18 19:58:02 <guest78463> does it make sense to spread your mining across different pools, I feel like there is an advantage to this. especially if you say do like 1-2ish GH/s for each of say the top 3 pools. versus doing 3-6 Gh/S on say deepbit, thoughts?
3404 2011-05-18 19:58:11 <lfm> gwillen: oh ok, dont mind me then
3405 2011-05-18 19:58:14 dvide has quit ()
3406 2011-05-18 19:58:15 <gwillen> lfm: np :-)
3407 2011-05-18 19:58:30 <wumpus> guest78463: only if you run multiple mining machines
3408 2011-05-18 19:58:32 <BlueMatt> guest78463: long term, you make the same (identically ignoring fees)
3409 2011-05-18 19:58:44 <BlueMatt> wumpus: even then, still the same results
3410 2011-05-18 19:58:45 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
3411 2011-05-18 19:58:50 <guest78463> wumpus: right, in my example 3 1-2gh/s machines
3412 2011-05-18 19:58:54 <gwillen> ;;bc,calc 100000
3413 2011-05-18 19:58:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 11 weeks, 1 day, 6 hours, 10 minutes, and 4 seconds
3414 2011-05-18 19:59:02 <guest78463> BlueMatt: yeah I suppose it would even out
3415 2011-05-18 19:59:07 <wumpus> guest78463: if you run multiple miners on the same machine it'll be slow as there are a lot of context switches in your gpu
3416 2011-05-18 19:59:12 <wumpus> BlueMatt: right, you won't make more
3417 2011-05-18 19:59:16 <lfm> guest78463: theoreticlly no, theoreticlly you best advantage is solo mining, not pools
3418 2011-05-18 19:59:18 <BlueMatt> though if you want to be really tricky, you could do the pool switching attack and make a couple percent more (though not slush's pool)
3419 2011-05-18 19:59:21 <wumpus> BlueMatt: but it's a form of risk spreading
3420 2011-05-18 20:00:01 <BlueMatt> wumpus: if you mean risk or pool op just taking your money and leaving, ok. If you mean risk as in rate of block generation, then its better to just sit on the biggest pool and not go elsewhere
3421 2011-05-18 20:00:01 <wumpus> lfm: yep, if you can afford the variance
3422 2011-05-18 20:00:02 <guest78463> lfm: that's a certain threshold of Gh/s right? like after a point then it becomes better at least percieved (I dont want to wait 2 weeks for a block with 3-6Gh/s solo)
3423 2011-05-18 20:00:18 <wumpus> BlueMatt: yeah I mean risk as in pools going down
3424 2011-05-18 20:00:24 <guest78463> at what point is it 'worth' the variance, or does it scale linearly
3425 2011-05-18 20:00:41 <BlueMatt> guest78463: long-term always best solo (assuming no diff change) if you look at diff change, its how many blocks you get per diff that probably makes the difference
3426 2011-05-18 20:00:43 <guest78463> I guess it's more a factor of how long im willing to wait right?
3427 2011-05-18 20:00:54 <BlueMatt> wumpus: well that you should be able to script
3428 2011-05-18 20:00:56 <Niedar> ;;bc,calc 6000000
3429 2011-05-18 20:00:58 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 1 day, 7 hours, 18 minutes, and 10 seconds
3430 2011-05-18 20:00:58 <lfm> guest78463: nope, if you only do one hash, your better off doing it for yourself
3431 2011-05-18 20:00:58 <guest78463> on avg, am I willing to wait 1 month. personally no
3432 2011-05-18 20:00:59 <wumpus> guest78463: indeed, depends on how long you're willing to wait
3433 2011-05-18 20:01:11 <Niedar> you could solo
3434 2011-05-18 20:01:18 <BlueMatt> nanotube: ping
3435 2011-05-18 20:01:24 <wumpus> with your amount of hashing power you could certainly solo
3436 2011-05-18 20:01:31 Lachesis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3437 2011-05-18 20:01:43 <lfm> sigh, it doesnt metter how much power you have
3438 2011-05-18 20:01:49 <guest78463> I guess I just need to figure out how much hashing power i need to figure out how to get around the 5-7day range, I'd feel comfortable with that kind of variance
3439 2011-05-18 20:01:56 <guest78463> but definitely not 1week+
3440 2011-05-18 20:02:00 <guest78463> i rather pool
3441 2011-05-18 20:02:08 <sacarlson> last calulation I made on my system hash/sec it would take 12 years to get lucky to find one block or 50 coins
3442 2011-05-18 20:02:26 <wumpus> lfm: it does, if you don't want to wait weeks to get a block, and the difficulty might have increased in that time
3443 2011-05-18 20:02:31 <guest78463> and I assume that's just a factor of the current difficulty level processed with my raw khps?
3444 2011-05-18 20:02:34 <lfm> guest78463: those ranges are misleading, every hash has the same chance of passing, it doesnt change after you do a certain number of them
3445 2011-05-18 20:03:20 <guest78463> lfm: no right, I get that for sure. each hash is equal in that sense
3446 2011-05-18 20:03:45 <lfm> and your first week is the same as your second week
3447 2011-05-18 20:03:59 <wumpus> assuming the difficulty didn't change
3448 2011-05-18 20:04:02 <Niedar> is your first year the same as your second year?
3449 2011-05-18 20:04:03 <lfm> and you get more solo than in a pool
3450 2011-05-18 20:04:07 skeledrew1 has joined
3451 2011-05-18 20:04:20 <guest78463> i just need to figure out the equation to figure out how much hashing power i need, at the current difficulty level, to expect on avg a 1 week variance in block success
3452 2011-05-18 20:04:34 <lfm> Niedar: yes of course
3453 2011-05-18 20:04:56 <lfm> guest use the ;;gen and gend commands maybe
3454 2011-05-18 20:05:19 <guest78463> lfm: you lost me, I'm very new to this all :)
3455 2011-05-18 20:05:27 <lfm> ;;gen 300
3456 2011-05-18 20:05:27 <gribble> Error: "gen" is not a valid command.
3457 2011-05-18 20:05:32 <lfm> ;;bc,gen 300
3458 2011-05-18 20:05:33 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 0.00191676164526 BTC per day and 7.98650685525e-05 BTC per hour.
3459 2011-05-18 20:05:49 Raccoon` has joined
3460 2011-05-18 20:06:01 <lfm> ;;bc,gend 300 [bc,estimate]
3461 2011-05-18 20:06:01 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 243926.62035256, is 0.00123704626309 BTC per day and 5.15435942953e-05 BTC per hour.
3462 2011-05-18 20:06:17 <sacarlson> guest78463: but the present calculators I think neglect to put the increase in we have seen in minning over the last 60 days to even get close to reality
3463 2011-05-18 20:06:52 <lfm> sacarlson: huh? the calculators are useing the present difficulty!
3464 2011-05-18 20:07:16 <sacarlson> lfm: yes I think they assume the difficulty never changes
3465 2011-05-18 20:07:28 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3466 2011-05-18 20:07:31 <lfm> sacarlson: the dificulty reflects the present difficulty, dont be confused
3467 2011-05-18 20:07:57 <sacarlson> lfm: yes and what was it 30 days ago?
3468 2011-05-18 20:08:05 <lfm> and the estimate is a prediction of the next difficulty
3469 2011-05-18 20:08:10 <guest78463> where exactly are you running this gen command, is this standard bash/unix stuff?
3470 2011-05-18 20:08:12 <lfm> no, it is now
3471 2011-05-18 20:08:32 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3472 2011-05-18 20:08:32 Raccoon` is now known as Raccoon
3473 2011-05-18 20:08:46 <lfm> 30 days ago it was different but irrelevant, you cant use old difficulties
3474 2011-05-18 20:09:15 <sacarlson> lfm: no but in a model you might predict the dificulties of the future
3475 2011-05-18 20:09:35 <lfm> in fact you know exactly how many hashes you produced were good back then, you shouldnt t be trying to estimate them
3476 2011-05-18 20:10:21 <lfm> sacarlson: yes, you can try to estimate future difficulty, it ill always be wrong of course
3477 2011-05-18 20:10:22 <sacarlson> lfm: well I'm sure your model must be perfect then like the one they have that predicts the weather
3478 2011-05-18 20:10:51 <lfm> nope mine is just as bad as anyone else's
3479 2011-05-18 20:11:15 eao has joined
3480 2011-05-18 20:11:41 btcbuyer has joined
3481 2011-05-18 20:11:43 <sacarlson> hey they were only one day off when they said it was going to rain so don't give up yet
3482 2011-05-18 20:11:48 <btcbuyer> <btcbuyer> Is there anyone interested in selling a large quantity of bit coins at 3.50?
3483 2011-05-18 20:11:55 skeledrew1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3484 2011-05-18 20:12:12 <lfm> btcbuyer: how many is large q?
3485 2011-05-18 20:12:24 <sacarlson> btcbuyer: I only have weeds sorry
3486 2011-05-18 20:12:29 <lfm> btcbuyer: 100? 1000? 10000?
3487 2011-05-18 20:12:34 <ArtForz> I have carrots!
3488 2011-05-18 20:12:38 <btcbuyer> 2000
3489 2011-05-18 20:12:43 <ArtForz> thats a lot now?
3490 2011-05-18 20:13:02 <btcbuyer> or 50K at 1.50$
3491 2011-05-18 20:13:06 <sacarlson> ArtForz: I'll give you 6 weeds for 2000 carrots
3492 2011-05-18 20:13:11 <wumpus> why would you sell them for 3 if yo ucan get 6+ for them
3493 2011-05-18 20:13:16 <ArtForz> yeah
3494 2011-05-18 20:13:21 skeledrew has joined
3495 2011-05-18 20:13:28 <btcbuyer> have u looked at the price/vol lately?
3496 2011-05-18 20:13:45 <lfm> wumpus: large quantities can change the market price the wrong way on ya
3497 2011-05-18 20:13:56 <btcbuyer> not otc
3498 2011-05-18 20:13:56 <ninjaneo> clearly you wouldn't want to buy them if you didn't think you were getting the deal =p
3499 2011-05-18 20:14:03 <wumpus> lfm: I know, but to take such a large discount?
3500 2011-05-18 20:14:07 <ArtForz> lfm: 2000 is still not a large qty...
3501 2011-05-18 20:14:12 ben36 has joined
3502 2011-05-18 20:14:13 <wumpus> you could just as well crash the market and at least have some fun :p
3503 2011-05-18 20:14:14 <btcbuyer> TREND IS DOWN HARD
3504 2011-05-18 20:14:17 <lfm> true
3505 2011-05-18 20:14:18 <ArtForz> now 20k+, thats a diff story
3506 2011-05-18 20:14:27 <btcbuyer> watch
3507 2011-05-18 20:14:32 <ArtForz> btcbuyer: yes, but you don't want to buy em in 2 weeks, you want em now.
3508 2011-05-18 20:14:41 <sacarlson> btcbuyer: wow good to hear to me it was over priced
3509 2011-05-18 20:14:48 <ArtForz> and right now I could sell the same 2k for $6+
3510 2011-05-18 20:15:00 <btcbuyer> in 6 hrs you will be lucky to get 5
3511 2011-05-18 20:15:04 Aahz has joined
3512 2011-05-18 20:15:06 <ArtForz> so basically "sell 40% under market for no reason at all"
3513 2011-05-18 20:15:13 <wumpus> well 5 is still more than 3 :p
3514 2011-05-18 20:15:21 <btcbuyer> 3 in large qty?
3515 2011-05-18 20:15:26 <btcbuyer> way diff
3516 2011-05-18 20:15:29 <ninjaneo> btcbuyer your offer is shit
3517 2011-05-18 20:15:52 <btcbuyer> ninjaneo: go hump a tree would ya?
3518 2011-05-18 20:16:01 <sacarlson> btcbuyer: what rating do you have at the otc?
3519 2011-05-18 20:16:03 <ninjaneo> your leg suits me fine
3520 2011-05-18 20:16:04 Aahzmundus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3521 2011-05-18 20:16:13 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3522 2011-05-18 20:16:13 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.874,"low":6.6,"vol":28554,"buy":6.8,"sell":6.9,"last":6.9}}
3523 2011-05-18 20:16:22 eternal1 has joined
3524 2011-05-18 20:16:26 <btcbuyer> wait and see...
3525 2011-05-18 20:16:57 <ArtForz> I waited, I saw, I didnt sell 40% under market.
3526 2011-05-18 20:17:11 <wumpus> hehe
3527 2011-05-18 20:17:12 <ninjaneo> im not disagreeing that its overvalued, but to knowingly sell below the market is retarded
3528 2011-05-18 20:17:20 <sacarlson> btcbuyer: I'm open for that $2 price sounds good
3529 2011-05-18 20:17:41 <btcbuyer> i will put it in the darkpool
3530 2011-05-18 20:18:05 <lfm> btcbuyer: there is outstanding offers of 5.50 or more for 3000 btc right now
3531 2011-05-18 20:18:13 <guest78463> ;;bc,calc 3000
3532 2011-05-18 20:18:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 7 years, 7 weeks, 4 days, 13 hours, 35 minutes, and 35 seconds
3533 2011-05-18 20:18:16 <btcbuyer> ever seen a land slide?
3534 2011-05-18 20:18:40 <lfm> btcbuyer: if its really gonna crash so bad why you wanna buy?
3535 2011-05-18 20:18:41 <ArtForz> ohhhh, I'm scared!
3536 2011-05-18 20:18:54 <ninjaneo> lol you buying beneath the market is what creates shorts
3537 2011-05-18 20:18:59 <wumpus> you're not exactly the first one to try this, btcbuyer :p
3538 2011-05-18 20:19:01 <guest78463> ;;bc,calc 917000
3539 2011-05-18 20:19:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 917000 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 1 week, 1 day, 12 hours, 48 minutes, and 59 seconds
3540 2011-05-18 20:19:06 <glassresistor> one btc to the first person to tell me whats wrong with this? http://pastie.org/1923421
3541 2011-05-18 20:19:08 <sacarlson> lfm: I thought he was selling
3542 2011-05-18 20:19:35 <guest78463> glassresistor: I dont see anything written
3543 2011-05-18 20:19:41 <ninjaneo> glassresistor, all that says is none
3544 2011-05-18 20:19:42 <wumpus> if he was selling for $3 everyone would be jumping on it
3545 2011-05-18 20:19:45 <sacarlson> I still have an open bid on mtgox for 0.98
3546 2011-05-18 20:19:48 <ArtForz> None. none more black.
3547 2011-05-18 20:19:50 EvanR-work has joined
3548 2011-05-18 20:20:01 <EvanR-work> opinion on the strength of the bitcoin network?
3549 2011-05-18 20:20:10 <EvanR-work> diff is about to go up, are we will epically weak?
3550 2011-05-18 20:20:23 <sipa> ?
3551 2011-05-18 20:20:30 <EvanR-work> against attackers
3552 2011-05-18 20:20:39 <ArtForz> are we will what?
3553 2011-05-18 20:20:43 <EvanR-work> weak
3554 2011-05-18 20:20:49 <EvanR-work> lol
3555 2011-05-18 20:20:51 eternal1 has quit (Client Quit)
3556 2011-05-18 20:20:56 <EvanR-work> are will still epically weak?
3557 2011-05-18 20:20:59 <EvanR-work> :|
3558 2011-05-18 20:21:02 <ninjaneo> no
3559 2011-05-18 20:21:02 <gjs278> english
3560 2011-05-18 20:21:07 <ninjaneo> everything is fine and dandy
3561 2011-05-18 20:21:09 * EvanR-work gives up
3562 2011-05-18 20:21:11 <ninjaneo> the difficulty always goes up
3563 2011-05-18 20:21:13 TheKid has joined
3564 2011-05-18 20:21:13 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
3565 2011-05-18 20:21:13 TheKid has joined
3566 2011-05-18 20:21:18 <ArtForz> not always
3567 2011-05-18 20:21:22 <lfm> ninjaneo: almost always
3568 2011-05-18 20:21:22 <ninjaneo> every 2016 blocks
3569 2011-05-18 20:21:28 <EvanR-work> how much more diff do we need before were solid
3570 2011-05-18 20:21:29 <gjs278> how does the difficulty going up change anything in terms of
3571 2011-05-18 20:21:30 patapper has joined
3572 2011-05-18 20:21:31 <gjs278> epically weak
3573 2011-05-18 20:21:32 <ArtForz> but when mining is still this profitable, it's be a miracle if it didn't ...
3574 2011-05-18 20:21:33 <gjs278> what the fuck
3575 2011-05-18 20:21:37 <lfm> ninjaneo: it went down twice
3576 2011-05-18 20:21:41 <gjs278> stop taling about the difficulty EvanR-work
3577 2011-05-18 20:21:45 <ninjaneo> oh rly? ppl withdraw some miners?
3578 2011-05-18 20:21:48 <gjs278> that has nothing to do with what you think it does
3579 2011-05-18 20:21:58 <EvanR-work> not sure what gjs278 is on about
3580 2011-05-18 20:21:59 <gjs278> we are always solid
3581 2011-05-18 20:22:00 <ArtForz> and difficulty doesnt affect network security
3582 2011-05-18 20:22:02 <lfm> ninjaneo: ya I guess
3583 2011-05-18 20:22:26 <EvanR-work> i thought diff was a measure of computing power
3584 2011-05-18 20:22:32 <btcbuyer> http://www.imghaven.com/images/12831/BTCUSD20110518houry5d.png
3585 2011-05-18 20:22:35 <gjs278> the difficulty could be over 9000000000000 and the network would just as fine as it was now
3586 2011-05-18 20:22:50 <lfm> EvanR-work: its measure of power of previous 2016 blocks
3587 2011-05-18 20:23:12 marlowe has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3588 2011-05-18 20:23:12 <sipa> 1 difficulty = 7.15 Mhash/s
3589 2011-05-18 20:23:18 Eligius has joined
3590 2011-05-18 20:23:20 * Eligius is a scam
3591 2011-05-18 20:23:27 <wumpus> ninjaneo: I guess most of the cpu miners withdrew
3592 2011-05-18 20:23:27 <gjs278> thanks for letting usknow
3593 2011-05-18 20:23:29 <sipa> please farzong
3594 2011-05-18 20:23:33 fimp has joined
3595 2011-05-18 20:23:39 <EvanR-work> ban or ignore Eligius
3596 2011-05-18 20:23:47 <wumpus> hey, we have a scam in the room
3597 2011-05-18 20:23:48 <Eligius> EvanR-work: go back to work
3598 2011-05-18 20:23:59 <ArtForz> farzong is a scam?
3599 2011-05-18 20:24:10 <Eligius> no
3600 2011-05-18 20:24:11 <ninjaneo> ArtForz is a scam!
3601 2011-05-18 20:24:11 <EvanR-work> he has to be
3602 2011-05-18 20:24:14 * Eligius is a scam
3603 2011-05-18 20:24:18 <ninjaneo> (jk)
3604 2011-05-18 20:24:23 <wumpus> go being a scam somewhere else please
3605 2011-05-18 20:24:28 <EvanR-work> how much more hash power do we need to be solid?
3606 2011-05-18 20:24:29 metonymous_ has joined
3607 2011-05-18 20:24:38 <sipa> define solid?
3608 2011-05-18 20:24:38 <ArtForz> can I be a scam too mommy?
3609 2011-05-18 20:24:49 <ninjaneo> EvanR-work, you aren't making any sense to anyone
3610 2011-05-18 20:24:51 <lfm> no
3611 2011-05-18 20:24:51 <gjs278> it already is solid
3612 2011-05-18 20:25:02 <EvanR-work> sipa: can withstand a block dos?
3613 2011-05-18 20:25:05 <BlueMatt> Eligius: please gtfo
3614 2011-05-18 20:25:07 <ArtForz> EvanR-work: u drunk?
3615 2011-05-18 20:25:10 <gjs278> block dos
3616 2011-05-18 20:25:17 <EvanR-work> ArtForz: pretty much
3617 2011-05-18 20:25:21 <gjs278> do you mean tetris in a dos environment
3618 2011-05-18 20:25:30 <EvanR-work> lol
3619 2011-05-18 20:25:33 <wumpus> EvanR-work: we'll first have to become liquid before we get solid
3620 2011-05-18 20:25:34 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3621 2011-05-18 20:25:38 <ArtForz> no, a block disk operating system
3622 2011-05-18 20:25:40 <Eligius> tetricorn
3623 2011-05-18 20:25:53 <EvanR-work> no, like NSA ramping up their bitcoin nodes, sending up to 300% more diff, then cutting it off
3624 2011-05-18 20:25:54 <lfm> EvanR-work: how big block dos? it will always be vulnerable to 51% power of whatever is current then
3625 2011-05-18 20:25:54 <ArtForz> that only works on block devices, no booting off tape sir!
3626 2011-05-18 20:26:03 <EvanR-work> lfm: right
3627 2011-05-18 20:26:20 <_ape> anyone else getting an exception on mtgox when trying to add btc?
3628 2011-05-18 20:26:22 <gjs278> lol
3629 2011-05-18 20:26:29 <_ape> :\
3630 2011-05-18 20:26:30 <lfm> ArtForz: some machines boot offa tape, just not PCs
3631 2011-05-18 20:26:31 <gjs278> even if you raised the difficulty 9000%
3632 2011-05-18 20:26:35 <gjs278> we would eventually hit the 2016 blocks
3633 2011-05-18 20:26:39 <gjs278> and then it would go back down
3634 2011-05-18 20:26:42 <EvanR-work> gjs278: in the mean time were screwed
3635 2011-05-18 20:26:43 Gui_0 has quit ()
3636 2011-05-18 20:26:45 <gjs278> no
3637 2011-05-18 20:26:48 <EvanR-work> oh?
3638 2011-05-18 20:26:48 <gjs278> just no more coins who cares
3639 2011-05-18 20:27:06 <EvanR-work> if blocks take four days.....
3640 2011-05-18 20:27:12 <EvanR-work> no one gets paid
3641 2011-05-18 20:27:18 <gjs278> no one needs to get paid
3642 2011-05-18 20:27:22 <EvanR-work> i do
3643 2011-05-18 20:27:23 <lfm> EvanR-work: huh?
3644 2011-05-18 20:27:31 <gjs278> we have enough coins right now to use them as currency
3645 2011-05-18 20:27:31 <BlueMatt> god took long enough bitcoin 0.3.22 RC2 Mingw via gitian finally building...now if it dies due to some random bad cp or something at the end of my script, Im gonna murder someone
3646 2011-05-18 20:27:45 <ninjaneo> perhaps he is saying transactions wont complete/confirm
3647 2011-05-18 20:27:46 ahbritto has joined
3648 2011-05-18 20:27:50 <EvanR-work> im not talking about generated coins
3649 2011-05-18 20:27:55 <Niedar> hes talking about transactions taking a long time
3650 2011-05-18 20:28:15 <ArtForz> ohhh, transactions might take 40 instead of 10 minutes!
3651 2011-05-18 20:28:29 <EvanR-work> not with a 9000% diff increase
3652 2011-05-18 20:28:31 <lfm> getting paid every 4 days aint so bad
3653 2011-05-18 20:28:41 <gjs278> if you could make the time to make a block take four days instead of 10 minutes, you already could have double spent the entire network
3654 2011-05-18 20:28:51 GermainAdrian has joined
3655 2011-05-18 20:28:55 <EvanR-work> gjs278: im not sure thats possible?
3656 2011-05-18 20:28:58 <ninjaneo> if someone had the computing power to match all current miners, they should try mining for a difficulty not yet reached
3657 2011-05-18 20:29:01 <gjs278> that's the 51% issue
3658 2011-05-18 20:29:02 <BlueMatt> FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU
3659 2011-05-18 20:29:11 <EvanR-work> alright switching to the 51% issue
3660 2011-05-18 20:29:12 <gjs278> if you could double the time it takes to make a block on your own, you could do anything you wanted
3661 2011-05-18 20:29:18 * sipa gives BlueMatt a shot of valium
3662 2011-05-18 20:29:35 <EvanR-work> are we safe from a malicious 51% attack?
3663 2011-05-18 20:29:40 * Eligius is the greatest bitcoin scam since the russian mafia started mining
3664 2011-05-18 20:29:42 <ArtForz> no
3665 2011-05-18 20:29:42 skeledrew1 has joined
3666 2011-05-18 20:29:44 <lfm> EvanR-work: never
3667 2011-05-18 20:29:52 <wumpus> just start your own blockchain, you can do anything you want :p
3668 2011-05-18 20:29:52 <ArtForz> you can't *ever* be safe against a 51% attack
3669 2011-05-18 20:29:57 Eligius has joined
3670 2011-05-18 20:29:58 <gjs278> deepbit could turn on us tomorrow!!!!
3671 2011-05-18 20:30:09 <EvanR-work> ok i know mathematically
3672 2011-05-18 20:30:19 <Eligius> deepbit is great
3673 2011-05-18 20:30:24 <EvanR-work> what about practically
3674 2011-05-18 20:30:42 <lfm> EvanR-work: art showed me how it could be done on testnet, he was generating and ignoring my generated blocks
3675 2011-05-18 20:30:43 <GermainAdrian> why is it 51%
3676 2011-05-18 20:30:43 <gjs278> Eligius is a scam, I heard that somewhere before
3677 2011-05-18 20:30:43 <ArtForz> practically, too
3678 2011-05-18 20:30:49 <EvanR-work> lfm: right
3679 2011-05-18 20:30:51 <Eligius> about an hour ago i posted a way to verify the trustowrthiness of pools - publish a registry of all partial work units and let users verify it
3680 2011-05-18 20:31:01 <GermainAdrian> couldnt it be set to something higher
3681 2011-05-18 20:31:03 <GermainAdrian> say 70%
3682 2011-05-18 20:31:13 <EvanR-work> heh
3683 2011-05-18 20:31:14 <gjs278> it's actually 50.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
3684 2011-05-18 20:31:15 <gmaxwell> I log my found shares, haven't found anything suspect yet.
3685 2011-05-18 20:31:19 <gjs278> just dont tell anyone
3686 2011-05-18 20:31:25 <lfm> EvanR-work: so if you controll all the blocks you control which txn get thru
3687 2011-05-18 20:31:30 <btcbuyer> T/F .. Could NSA take this network w/ DOS attack and reclaim the BTC chain and do double selling?
3688 2011-05-18 20:31:30 <EvanR-work> lfm: yes
3689 2011-05-18 20:31:49 <GermainAdrian> btcbuyer: yes, and they wouldnt even need to ddos
3690 2011-05-18 20:31:50 <Niedar> yes btc im pretty sure they could
3691 2011-05-18 20:31:55 <Eligius> gmaxwell: good idea.. now if you inspect everyone elses shares you can be sure that the total share count is accurate (and not inflated by the pool admin to water down the value of everyone's shares in his favor)
3692 2011-05-18 20:31:55 <ArtForz> you could outhash the network by 4:1 or so with $10M or so
3693 2011-05-18 20:31:56 <lfm> EvanR-work: and 51% is always enuf
3694 2011-05-18 20:31:57 <EvanR-work> s/DOS attack//
3695 2011-05-18 20:31:57 <btcbuyer> in like 1 min
3696 2011-05-18 20:31:58 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3697 2011-05-18 20:31:59 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you might want to register Eligius next chance you get...
3698 2011-05-18 20:32:04 <GermainAdrian> they could even kick your doors in
3699 2011-05-18 20:32:10 <GermainAdrian> and just take your btc
3700 2011-05-18 20:32:12 <EvanR-work> lfm: i got that
3701 2011-05-18 20:32:20 <gjs278> I print out all of my btc and store it in my wallet
3702 2011-05-18 20:32:21 <GermainAdrian> why is it so low? can it not be higher than 51%
3703 2011-05-18 20:32:28 <gjs278> no
3704 2011-05-18 20:32:30 <ArtForz> nope
3705 2011-05-18 20:32:36 <EvanR-work> and that will get harder to do as you buy more nodes, and make sure none of them cooperate
3706 2011-05-18 20:32:39 <patapper> maybe
3707 2011-05-18 20:32:43 <metonymous_> how many work units are in a .. block
3708 2011-05-18 20:32:49 <gjs278> over 9000
3709 2011-05-18 20:32:56 <Eligius> the 1 btc luke-jr scammed from me was the most expensive btc he ever stole.. lol
3710 2011-05-18 20:33:04 <lfm> metonymous_: question makes no sense
3711 2011-05-18 20:33:07 <patapper> metonymous_: kind of depends on the difficulty. but blocks aren't made of work units
3712 2011-05-18 20:33:08 <metonymous_> ta
3713 2011-05-18 20:33:16 <metonymous_> i'm trying to grok that part
3714 2011-05-18 20:33:24 <BlueMatt> Eligius: evidence or gtfo
3715 2011-05-18 20:33:31 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3716 2011-05-18 20:33:34 <EvanR-work> BlueMatt: oh no, you didnt just do that
3717 2011-05-18 20:33:43 <GermainAdrian> gjs278, ArtForz: why cant it be any higher
3718 2011-05-18 20:33:43 <luke-jr> lol
3719 2011-05-18 20:33:48 <gjs278> it just cant
3720 2011-05-18 20:33:49 <GermainAdrian> 51% is low.
3721 2011-05-18 20:33:49 <Eligius> BlueMatt: you'll probably just side with him because he sits on irc 24x7 (somehow that makes him trustworthy? lol)
3722 2011-05-18 20:33:51 <lfm> metonymous_: evry hash has 1/(difficulty*2^32) chance of being good
3723 2011-05-18 20:33:56 <gjs278> 51% isnt low
3724 2011-05-18 20:34:04 <GermainAdrian> gjs278: super low
3725 2011-05-18 20:34:08 <ninjaneo> lol no it isn't
3726 2011-05-18 20:34:10 <gjs278> if someone can do 51%
3727 2011-05-18 20:34:12 <gjs278> they can do
3728 2011-05-18 20:34:13 <BlueMatt> Eligius: again, evidence or stfu or gtfo
3729 2011-05-18 20:34:13 <Eligius> here you go: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8733.0
3730 2011-05-18 20:34:13 <gjs278> 99
3731 2011-05-18 20:34:15 <gjs278> too
3732 2011-05-18 20:34:19 <ArtForz> because thats what you need to make a longer proof-of-work chain than everyone else
3733 2011-05-18 20:34:24 <GermainAdrian> 99 is a lot higher
3734 2011-05-18 20:34:27 <gmaxwell> Eligius: If I personally give you 1BTC will you go away?
3735 2011-05-18 20:34:33 <GermainAdrian> ArtForz: then the protocol is deficient
3736 2011-05-18 20:34:34 <Eligius> gmaxwell: sure
3737 2011-05-18 20:34:38 <ninjaneo> its a scam
3738 2011-05-18 20:34:40 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: he'll be back under another nick
3739 2011-05-18 20:34:41 <metonymous_> lfm: it may be a n00b question, but why is there 'proof-or-work' that isn't 'block' worthy, is it just arbitrary to "prove" the workers are working?
3740 2011-05-18 20:34:41 <ninjaneo> he'll be back
3741 2011-05-18 20:34:44 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: don't feel the troll
3742 2011-05-18 20:34:47 CoinMan has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3743 2011-05-18 20:34:48 <Eligius> lol
3744 2011-05-18 20:34:53 <lfm> 51% or higher can take over, true
3745 2011-05-18 20:34:53 <Eligius> dont fell the troll!
3746 2011-05-18 20:34:53 <ArtForz> GermainAdrian: find a better way. write a paper.
3747 2011-05-18 20:34:58 <EvanR-work> Eligius: i hereby give you 1 BTC. its the 1 BTC of mine currently held at btcex
3748 2011-05-18 20:35:01 <EvanR-work> good bye
3749 2011-05-18 20:35:14 <GermainAdrian> ArtForz: i am not a mathematician unfortunately. have there been papers on bitcoin cryptoanalysis so far?
3750 2011-05-18 20:35:29 * ninjaneo kicks GermainAdrian in the balls
3751 2011-05-18 20:35:39 <GermainAdrian> thanks ninja
3752 2011-05-18 20:35:44 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: his hostmask indicates that he's near meâ I apologize for the idiocy of my geo-kin.
3753 2011-05-18 20:35:47 <sipa> GermainAdrian: not as far as i know
3754 2011-05-18 20:35:50 <EvanR-work> ninjaneo: that wasnt very germaine
3755 2011-05-18 20:35:52 <Eligius> if anyone wants to pay off luke dashjr's sorry as debt, you can send me 1 btc to 14oSfMjE5S9nKqd9PSr6y7FWmHrjqpqzm1
3756 2011-05-18 20:35:55 <lfm> GermainAdrian: just Satoshi's original wite paper introduction
3757 2011-05-18 20:35:55 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: he uses proxies
3758 2011-05-18 20:36:07 <Eligius> luke-jr - but you're a thief
3759 2011-05-18 20:36:10 <metonymous_> why's he in debt? ok... i'll go sit in a corner
3760 2011-05-18 20:36:14 <luke-jr> Eligius: no, you are
3761 2011-05-18 20:36:23 <Eligius> "no you are" - good argument bro
3762 2011-05-18 20:36:28 <ArtForz> no u!
3763 2011-05-18 20:36:35 <metonymous_> na-ah
3764 2011-05-18 20:36:37 <gmaxwell> Eligius: he explained his position fairly clearly on the forum.
3765 2011-05-18 20:36:41 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3766 2011-05-18 20:36:43 <luke-jr> metonymous_: we agreed that he'd sell me 25 BTC for $1.15 and he refuses to follow through; somehow that means I'm in debt
3767 2011-05-18 20:36:45 <EvanR-work> no v
3768 2011-05-18 20:36:57 <metonymous_> agreed like gpg signed agreed?
3769 2011-05-18 20:37:03 <metonymous_> or just words
3770 2011-05-18 20:37:04 <luke-jr> metonymous_: no, like verbally on IRC
3771 2011-05-18 20:37:05 <Eligius> gmaxwell: its not a position. its an agreement he failed to honor
3772 2011-05-18 20:37:09 <metonymous_> ah, k
3773 2011-05-18 20:37:16 <Eligius> metonymous_: its all captured in the bitcoin irc logs
3774 2011-05-18 20:37:20 <luke-jr> metonymous_: which is just as legally valid
3775 2011-05-18 20:37:24 <metonymous_> i presume $1.15 USD
3776 2011-05-18 20:37:27 * EvanR-work goes back to OTC and hopes Eligius isnt still there
3777 2011-05-18 20:37:28 <lfm> luke-jr: when was that? seems like a pretty cheap price
3778 2011-05-18 20:37:30 <luke-jr> metonymous_: $1.15 per BTC
3779 2011-05-18 20:37:38 <luke-jr> lfm: we agreed the sale would occur Apr 13
3780 2011-05-18 20:37:45 <Nesetalis> by the way, has anyone remmebered to push the bitcoin stackexchange forward? its close, just needs 2 off-topic questions to go forward
3781 2011-05-18 20:37:49 <Eligius> again, you'll just side with luke dashjr because you're a Tonal freak or you somehow believe him because he idles on irc, and i dont. lol
3782 2011-05-18 20:37:51 <luke-jr> lfm: he never showed until yesterday
3783 2011-05-18 20:37:59 <metonymous_> the person's state of mind, and whether or not it would likely be perceived as serious are also legally taken into account
3784 2011-05-18 20:38:08 <Eligius> luke-jr: no we agreed to a FUTURES CONTRACT. where the winner pays the loser the difference in the price of bitcoin
3785 2011-05-18 20:38:12 <metonymous_> would teh average person in this room think that was serious
3786 2011-05-18 20:38:14 <luke-jr> metonymous_: whether it was binding or not, I don't owe him a thing :p
3787 2011-05-18 20:38:18 <metonymous_> lol
3788 2011-05-18 20:38:21 <luke-jr> until he delivers 25 BTC
3789 2011-05-18 20:38:39 <Eligius> """if BTC goes to $1.80, you owe me 14.13043478 BTC; if BTC drops to $0.50, I owe you 14.13043478 BTC"""
3790 2011-05-18 20:38:42 <metonymous_> can he wait as long as he likes? might drop below 1.25 at the current rate :P
3791 2011-05-18 20:39:00 <metonymous_> where's teh 25?
3792 2011-05-18 20:39:01 <luke-jr> ty
3793 2011-05-18 20:39:13 <luke-jr> metonymous_: he claims he doesn't need to deliver anything
3794 2011-05-18 20:39:13 <metonymous_> anyway...
3795 2011-05-18 20:39:23 <metonymous_> that's not taht interesting from a bitcoin-dev viewpoint
3796 2011-05-18 20:39:26 <metonymous_> :P
3797 2011-05-18 20:39:56 <metonymous_> what i'm curious as to, is if "minerd" has a variant that supports the new binary protocol proposed by mr jg----
3798 2011-05-18 20:40:13 <Nesetalis> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/30763/bitcoin-crypto-currency :p
3799 2011-05-18 20:40:20 <Nesetalis> push it!
3800 2011-05-18 20:41:28 mmoya has joined
3801 2011-05-18 20:41:44 NOTAL has joined
3802 2011-05-18 20:43:46 lumos has joined
3803 2011-05-18 20:44:23 btcbuyer has left ()
3804 2011-05-18 20:44:53 ericools has joined
3805 2011-05-18 20:45:08 ezl has joined
3806 2011-05-18 20:45:46 mtrlt_ has joined
3807 2011-05-18 20:46:50 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3808 2011-05-18 20:47:08 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3809 2011-05-18 20:47:26 <eureka^> ;;bc,stats
3810 2011-05-18 20:47:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124978 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 13 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 13 minutes, and 27 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244014.59046747
3811 2011-05-18 20:50:45 <gjs278> wow
3812 2011-05-18 20:51:47 mtrlt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3813 2011-05-18 20:54:18 ericools has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3814 2011-05-18 20:54:40 guest78463 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3815 2011-05-18 20:55:11 funfun has joined
3816 2011-05-18 20:55:22 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: issues adding btc right now?
3817 2011-05-18 20:55:39 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: get exception every time i hit send bitcoins
3818 2011-05-18 20:55:42 <funfun> "Next Difficulty Estimate: 244014.59046747" what unit are those numbers in or what does that number mean
3819 2011-05-18 20:55:50 <BlueMatt> yay, building boost entirely from source for the billionth time today, god these windows builds are never gonna finish...
3820 2011-05-18 20:56:22 <BlueMatt> sipa: are you gonna build the linux versions?
3821 2011-05-18 20:56:28 <BlueMatt> (via gitian)
3822 2011-05-18 20:56:36 <sipa> BlueMatt: sorry, no access to my desktop now
3823 2011-05-18 20:56:42 <sipa> will do that tomorrow
3824 2011-05-18 20:56:46 <BlueMatt> ah, ok just wondered
3825 2011-05-18 20:56:52 <jrmithdobbs> who does the osx versions?
3826 2011-05-18 20:56:53 <ninjaneo> lol boost takes like a half a day to compile on this machine
3827 2011-05-18 20:57:16 Kiba has joined
3828 2011-05-18 20:57:51 <Nesetalis> you could compile /just/ the libs you need, ninjaneo :p
3829 2011-05-18 20:58:03 <eureka^> i just built boost on my freebsd box
3830 2011-05-18 20:58:08 <ninjaneo> that is just the libs i need =p
3831 2011-05-18 20:58:08 Ego has joined
3832 2011-05-18 20:58:20 <Nesetalis> X.x
3833 2011-05-18 20:58:23 <Nesetalis> what were you compiling?
3834 2011-05-18 20:58:34 Ego is now known as Guest92902
3835 2011-05-18 20:58:48 <ninjaneo> lol nothing at the moment
3836 2011-05-18 20:59:54 <ninjaneo> looks like its required/dependency of inkscape
3837 2011-05-18 21:01:20 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3838 2011-05-18 21:01:20 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.874,"low":6.6,"vol":28261,"buy":6.6605,"sell":6.8796,"last":6.6701}}
3839 2011-05-18 21:01:35 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: you know if the osx build docs are accurate?
3840 2011-05-18 21:01:51 <BlueMatt> I think they might be a bit out of date, but mostly right iirc
3841 2011-05-18 21:01:58 <BlueMatt> I haven't spent much time building on osx
3842 2011-05-18 21:02:08 <jrmithdobbs> k, i'll test and find out
3843 2011-05-18 21:02:27 <jrmithdobbs> i've only built bitcoind on osx so far
3844 2011-05-18 21:02:57 <jrmithdobbs> (and did that with makefile.unix, ha)
3845 2011-05-18 21:03:36 <eureka^> there's several linuxisms in the makefile.unix
3846 2011-05-18 21:03:42 <eureka^> like -ldl and -lpthread
3847 2011-05-18 21:04:03 <sipa> eureka^: if you can port it to another system, please do
3848 2011-05-18 21:04:12 <BlueMatt> how is pthread a linuxism?
3849 2011-05-18 21:04:13 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3850 2011-05-18 21:04:17 <jrmithdobbs> eureka^: it works unmodified on osx and freebsd last i tried it don't have access to solaris or ux atm to test there
3851 2011-05-18 21:04:20 <eureka^> BlueMatt; it's -pthread on freebsd
3852 2011-05-18 21:04:24 <BlueMatt> ah
3853 2011-05-18 21:04:27 <eureka^> and dl is in libc
3854 2011-05-18 21:04:32 <eureka^> there is no -ldl and it fails on linking
3855 2011-05-18 21:04:42 <sipa> -pthread and -lpthread are different
3856 2011-05-18 21:04:55 <jrmithdobbs> (thank god i don't have access to any solaris/ux/aix boxes tbqh)
3857 2011-05-18 21:05:05 <eureka^> jrmithdobbs; hah :p
3858 2011-05-18 21:05:52 <sipa> eureka^: -lpthread was necessary for the new gnu linker, which changed some default behaviour wrt. implicit dependendies or something
3859 2011-05-18 21:06:21 <sipa> when it was added, we tested whether it caused problems with the old linker on linux, and it didn't
3860 2011-05-18 21:06:42 <sipa> anyway, if it does cause a problem on other systems, another solution must be found
3861 2011-05-18 21:06:50 <sipa> (and i think that solution will be autotools)
3862 2011-05-18 21:06:57 <BlueMatt> well autotools should fix it
3863 2011-05-18 21:07:09 <eureka^> yep
3864 2011-05-18 21:07:23 <eureka^> the changes were minimal
3865 2011-05-18 21:07:36 tauri has joined
3866 2011-05-18 21:07:41 <eureka^> remove -ldl, change -lpthread to -pthread, and add search paths for my bdb and boost installs (in /usr/local)
3867 2011-05-18 21:08:01 <BlueMatt> have you tested with the autotools branch?
3868 2011-05-18 21:08:05 <BlueMatt> if not, could you?
3869 2011-05-18 21:08:07 <omglolbbq1> something wrong with mtgox? i can't withdraw bitcoins, "invalid bitcoin address" O_o
3870 2011-05-18 21:08:21 right3ous has joined
3871 2011-05-18 21:08:39 <right3ous> ,,bc,block
3872 2011-05-18 21:08:39 <gribble> Error: "bc,block" is not a valid command.
3873 2011-05-18 21:08:45 <right3ous> ;;bc,block
3874 2011-05-18 21:08:46 <gribble> Error: "bc,block" is not a valid command.
3875 2011-05-18 21:08:48 <eureka^> i can check in a bit, got a ton of stuff on my todo list atm
3876 2011-05-18 21:10:10 <BlueMatt> devrandom: ping
3877 2011-05-18 21:10:29 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3878 2011-05-18 21:10:37 vikarti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3879 2011-05-18 21:12:38 <eureka^> ;;bc,stats
3880 2011-05-18 21:12:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124985 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 6 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 33 minutes and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244370.90822612
3881 2011-05-18 21:12:43 <BlueMatt> devrandom: gribble has a message for you when you get the chance :)
3882 2011-05-18 21:14:46 Moonies has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3883 2011-05-18 21:14:52 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3884 2011-05-18 21:15:16 NOTAL has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3885 2011-05-18 21:16:49 <EPiSKiNG> damn, another difficulty doubled!
3886 2011-05-18 21:17:21 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
3887 2011-05-18 21:17:24 <BlueMatt> 24k in 28 minutes
3888 2011-05-18 21:17:37 <BlueMatt> Current Blocks: 124986 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 5 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 28 minutes and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244454.41622144
3889 2011-05-18 21:18:10 <gjs278> man I can't wait for 28 minutes
3890 2011-05-18 21:18:20 <gjs278> as soon as the difficulty jumps and the first block gets solved
3891 2011-05-18 21:18:23 <gjs278> I bc,stats
3892 2011-05-18 21:18:28 <gjs278> difficulty reports as 1 million
3893 2011-05-18 21:18:35 <ninjaneo> ;;bc,target
3894 2011-05-18 21:18:44 <ninjaneo> ;;bc,hextarget
3895 2011-05-18 21:18:47 <BlueMatt> nanotube: whats up with gribble?
3896 2011-05-18 21:18:53 <BlueMatt> ninjaneo: looks like gribble is down
3897 2011-05-18 21:18:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124986 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 5 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 28 minutes and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244454.41622144
3898 2011-05-18 21:18:55 <gjs278> grible is lagging
3899 2011-05-18 21:18:58 <BlueMatt> oh there we go
3900 2011-05-18 21:19:08 <ninjaneo> he was just thinking
3901 2011-05-18 21:19:08 <ninjaneo> =p
3902 2011-05-18 21:19:35 <BlueMatt> odd I pm'd him ;;bc,stats about 10 seconds before sipa did and it worked fine
3903 2011-05-18 21:20:02 <ninjaneo> i am still waiting for the hex target
3904 2011-05-18 21:20:46 <gjs278> dude
3905 2011-05-18 21:20:51 <gjs278> you try doing hex in your head
3906 2011-05-18 21:20:56 <gjs278> it's not easy for him either
3907 2011-05-18 21:21:07 <ninjaneo> lol
3908 2011-05-18 21:21:28 capitolist has joined
3909 2011-05-18 21:21:36 * ninjaneo shakes gribble violently
3910 2011-05-18 21:22:01 <BlueMatt> he wont even pong ,,ping
3911 2011-05-18 21:22:31 <BlueMatt> damn boost, damn you 1800/~4300 targets...
3912 2011-05-18 21:22:49 <BlueMatt> so much for getting 0.3.22 RC2 out there today
3913 2011-05-18 21:23:04 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: ?
3914 2011-05-18 21:25:06 <gjs278> busy watching anime
3915 2011-05-18 21:25:43 <gribble> Error: "bc,target" is not a valid command.
3916 2011-05-18 21:25:47 <gribble> 0000000000006A93B30000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
3917 2011-05-18 21:25:49 <ninjaneo> yay
3918 2011-05-18 21:26:14 <gribble> pong
3919 2011-05-18 21:26:35 <sipa> grats, gribble, that's 3m13s for a pong
3920 2011-05-18 21:26:39 <BlueMatt> god that took a while
3921 2011-05-18 21:27:08 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3922 2011-05-18 21:27:08 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.874,"low":6.6,"vol":28363,"buy":6.9001,"sell":7,"last":7}}
3923 2011-05-18 21:27:13 <gjs278> he listens to me
3924 2011-05-18 21:27:23 <BlueMatt> ;;ping
3925 2011-05-18 21:27:23 <gribble> pong
3926 2011-05-18 21:27:33 <gjs278> welcome to the instant gribble response club
3927 2011-05-18 21:27:41 <eureka^> ;;ping
3928 2011-05-18 21:27:41 <gribble> pong
3929 2011-05-18 21:28:17 <gjs278> ;;seen "any reason to answer you guys. I'm busy with other things, calm down."
3930 2011-05-18 21:28:17 <gribble> I have not seen any reason to answer you guys. I'm busy with other things, calm down..
3931 2011-05-18 21:28:38 <gjs278> ddaaaaaammmnnnn
3932 2011-05-18 21:28:45 <ninjaneo> lol pwned
3933 2011-05-18 21:30:07 <BlueMatt> any guesses as to why kswapd would have high cpu usage (>25%) yet swap usage == 0?
3934 2011-05-18 21:30:14 <BlueMatt> (on a vm)
3935 2011-05-18 21:30:41 JackRabiit has joined
3936 2011-05-18 21:30:59 <eureka^> what sort of vm software
3937 2011-05-18 21:31:11 <JackRabiit> Hey is Grue in here under some alias?
3938 2011-05-18 21:31:14 <BlueMatt> qemu via kvm
3939 2011-05-18 21:31:33 <BlueMatt> (with cpu virt support)
3940 2011-05-18 21:32:23 <BlueMatt> ok...building bitcoin...if it fails now...
3941 2011-05-18 21:33:46 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
3942 2011-05-18 21:36:09 <BlueMatt> YES, YES, YES, YES, YES
3943 2011-05-18 21:36:20 <BlueMatt> bitcoin win32 built with mingw :):):):):) via gitian
3944 2011-05-18 21:36:27 sytse has joined
3945 2011-05-18 21:36:47 <capitolist> Bitcoin Technical Analysis: 3rd test of 7$ indeed failed and BTC/USD lost 5.5%. Tsunami selling pressure in orderbook
3946 2011-05-18 21:37:33 Enchilada has joined
3947 2011-05-18 21:37:45 <sipa> BlueMatt: nice!!
3948 2011-05-18 21:38:07 <eureka^> ;;bc,gen 1920349
3949 2011-05-18 21:38:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1920349 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 12.2695043624 BTC per day and 0.511229348432 BTC per hour.
3950 2011-05-18 21:38:40 clarkm has quit (Quit: leaving)
3951 2011-05-18 21:38:50 <Enchilada> How many BTCs was the original creator of bitcoin able to extract? Could he have gotten the first ones very easily? What say thee, who hast read the source code?
3952 2011-05-18 21:39:19 JackRabiit has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3953 2011-05-18 21:39:29 <eureka^> ;;bc,gen 1920
3954 2011-05-18 21:39:29 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1920 Khps, given current difficulty of 157426.20628986 , is 0.0122672745297 BTC per day and 0.000511136438736 BTC per hour.
3955 2011-05-18 21:39:30 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: booo master * re8c5b89 / README.md : README: changed repo location; removed whitespaces - http://bit.ly/lCG9bl
3956 2011-05-18 21:39:30 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: booo master * r48c7c40 / (3 files): examples: added shebang; chmod +x - http://bit.ly/kJdC46
3957 2011-05-18 21:39:31 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Andrew Schaaf master * rc6a8344 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Merge pull request #14 from booo/master - http://bit.ly/ki8IFp
3958 2011-05-18 21:39:41 <jrmithdobbs> Enchilada: thee who hast read the source code say go read the goddamned wiki
3959 2011-05-18 21:39:59 <Enchilada> :(
3960 2011-05-18 21:40:06 <sipa> read this in particular: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block
3961 2011-05-18 21:40:26 <sipa> the bitcoin genesis block contains a reference to an article published the 3rd of januari 2009
3962 2011-05-18 21:40:29 <jrmithdobbs> Enchilada: sorry, you're like the 20th person today to be so uniquely original
3963 2011-05-18 21:40:47 <sipa> which means he can't have precalculated anything before that date
3964 2011-05-18 21:40:57 davux has joined
3965 2011-05-18 21:41:01 <davux> hi there
3966 2011-05-18 21:41:03 <Enchilada> hmm ok
3967 2011-05-18 21:41:15 <Enchilada> but the creators are now being interrogated at the CI*A right?
3968 2011-05-18 21:41:26 <davux> is there any way to display a conversion between BTC and any currency?
3969 2011-05-18 21:41:27 <sipa> interrogated?
3970 2011-05-18 21:41:28 <Enchilada> in order to find out how to stop this thing
3971 2011-05-18 21:41:34 <sipa> gavin is invited there, to give a talk, yes
3972 2011-05-18 21:41:37 sabalabas has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3973 2011-05-18 21:41:47 <davux> either converted directly or through another currency
3974 2011-05-18 21:42:00 <ninjaneo> ok folks, dev questions. I am considering accepting bitcoin payments via website, obviously I'd like to automate that, so whats the method here, should I make my own client, or do some type of polling via rpc
3975 2011-05-18 21:42:27 <xelister> "Whoever has the data from Sony, could, in theory, then reset any of the captured users accounts simply by entering the details they stole." ... oh Sony U SO SILLY
3976 2011-05-18 21:42:44 Kiba has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3977 2011-05-18 21:42:50 <ninjaneo> lol
3978 2011-05-18 21:43:15 <ninjaneo> they dont even seem to know where to begin =p is sony still down?
3979 2011-05-18 21:43:18 Kiba has joined
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3982 2011-05-18 21:44:10 DukeOfURL has joined
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3988 2011-05-18 21:44:56 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3989 2011-05-18 21:45:05 Marcel has joined
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3995 2011-05-18 21:45:49 <Enchilada> sipa: so what is he giving a talk about at the CIA?
3996 2011-05-18 21:45:49 <jrmithdobbs> ninjaneo: easiest solution as a merchant
3997 2011-05-18 21:45:58 <jrmithdobbs> ninjaneo: is to use either mtgox or mybitcoin's api
3998 2011-05-18 21:46:18 <sipa> Enchilada: bitcoin, obviously
3999 2011-05-18 21:46:23 <jrmithdobbs> ninjaneo: otherwise yes, you'd run your own bitcoind and rpc it
4000 2011-05-18 21:46:34 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: that should be a fun experience
4001 2011-05-18 21:46:48 jmpespxoreax has joined
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4006 2011-05-18 21:47:34 <ninjaneo> hm not interested in apis, even having to use bitcoind seems painful
4007 2011-05-18 21:47:35 <jrmithdobbs> why'd satoshi drop out anyways? didn't like the extra attention?
4008 2011-05-18 21:47:49 <jrmithdobbs> ninjaneo: mybitcoin.com's is pretty straightforward and painless
4009 2011-05-18 21:47:50 capitolist has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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4012 2011-05-18 21:47:57 mosimo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4013 2011-05-18 21:48:05 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: well, theres a lot of really stupid conspiracy theories
4014 2011-05-18 21:48:06 <jrmithdobbs> ninjaneo: it's for people like you specifically pretty much
4015 2011-05-18 21:48:09 <Diablo-D3> but I like mine the best
4016 2011-05-18 21:48:14 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin was is phd thesis
4017 2011-05-18 21:48:17 <Diablo-D3> *his
4018 2011-05-18 21:48:19 OneFixt_ has joined
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4020 2011-05-18 21:48:22 <Diablo-D3> and now hes finishing his doctorate
4021 2011-05-18 21:48:29 <jrmithdobbs> haha, not a bad theory really
4022 2011-05-18 21:48:30 OneFixt_ has joined
4023 2011-05-18 21:48:34 funfun has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4024 2011-05-18 21:49:09 <ninjaneo> meh how difficult would it be to make a client for the p2p network, so I would be notified rather than polling
4025 2011-05-18 21:49:17 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Andrew Schaaf master * r686672b / README.md : add <br>s (that whitespace meant <br>) - http://bit.ly/kjl3mW
4026 2011-05-18 21:49:17 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Andrew Schaaf master * r7efd947 / README.md : add bitcoinj link - http://bit.ly/lo60Xi
4027 2011-05-18 21:49:38 <sipa> ninjaneo: next bitcoin release will have a monitortransactions rpc call
4028 2011-05-18 21:49:42 <BlueMatt> yay portoption works, blocks download and bitcoin runs (without that damn anoying mingw dll dep) :)
4029 2011-05-18 21:49:48 <ninjaneo> oh rly
4030 2011-05-18 21:49:54 EPiSKiNG has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4031 2011-05-18 21:50:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: it does?
4032 2011-05-18 21:50:14 <sipa> oh, or wasn't it merged yet?
4033 2011-05-18 21:50:24 <ninjaneo> i was also thinking I could possibly monitor the block chain
4034 2011-05-18 21:50:31 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4035 2011-05-18 21:50:34 <ninjaneo> but that seems just as inefficient as polling via rpc
4036 2011-05-18 21:50:36 <BlueMatt> I just am not sure, I wasnt aware of it
4037 2011-05-18 21:50:44 <nanotube> BlueMatt: pong?
4038 2011-05-18 21:50:45 <sipa> apparently it wasn't
4039 2011-05-18 21:50:53 Enchilada has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4040 2011-05-18 21:50:54 OneFixt_ is now known as OneFixt
4041 2011-05-18 21:50:56 OneFixt has quit (Changing host)
4042 2011-05-18 21:50:56 OneFixt has joined
4043 2011-05-18 21:51:08 <ninjaneo> whatever ima just build it with the rpc for now
4044 2011-05-18 21:51:19 <BlueMatt> nanotube: sorry, forget it, was gonna ask about something, but realized its stupid
4045 2011-05-18 21:52:30 <nanotube> BlueMatt: hehe ok
4046 2011-05-18 21:52:36 <nanotube> BlueMatt: guess it's a good thing i was afk, then. :)
4047 2011-05-18 21:52:45 SmokeTooMuch has joined
4048 2011-05-18 21:52:47 <BlueMatt> lol, yep
4049 2011-05-18 21:52:52 <SmokeTooMuch> hey guys
4050 2011-05-18 21:53:04 <SmokeTooMuch> I cant connect to bitcoin.org
4051 2011-05-18 21:53:17 <SmokeTooMuch> changing my dns provider didn't help
4052 2011-05-18 21:53:25 <SmokeTooMuch> any hints how to solve this ?
4053 2011-05-18 21:53:33 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
4054 2011-05-18 21:53:55 <jlewis> luke-jr: eligius getting lucky!
4055 2011-05-18 21:54:10 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
4056 2011-05-18 21:54:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124989 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 2 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 11 minutes and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244201.51406980
4057 2011-05-18 21:54:18 <BlueMatt> ahhh, 11 minutes
4058 2011-05-18 21:54:24 <jlewis> yikes
4059 2011-05-18 21:54:28 <anarchyx> crap
4060 2011-05-18 21:54:31 <anarchyx> almost double
4061 2011-05-18 21:54:55 <jlewis> i wonder if it'll help or hurt the market
4062 2011-05-18 21:55:03 <anarchyx> gonna help for sure
4063 2011-05-18 21:55:15 sabalabas has joined
4064 2011-05-18 21:55:15 <jlewis> well in the long run sure, since there will be less bitcoin
4065 2011-05-18 21:55:18 SmokeTooMuch has quit (Client Quit)
4066 2011-05-18 21:55:20 <jlewis> but in the short run how will investors see the change
4067 2011-05-18 21:55:24 <anarchyx> if you mean help = rising
4068 2011-05-18 21:55:28 <jlewis> yeah i do mean that
4069 2011-05-18 21:55:34 <anarchyx> harder to get = higher price
4070 2011-05-18 21:55:39 <jlewis> yes
4071 2011-05-18 21:56:10 * BlueMatt needs better free webhost for sharing, putting everything on megaupload is kinda creepy
4072 2011-05-18 21:56:27 <jlewis> dropbox
4073 2011-05-18 21:56:28 eternal1 has joined
4074 2011-05-18 21:56:29 <erbs> dropbox or free amazon instance
4075 2011-05-18 21:56:37 <BlueMatt> amazon has free instances?
4076 2011-05-18 21:56:41 <erbs> yeah
4077 2011-05-18 21:56:51 slush has joined
4078 2011-05-18 21:56:57 <erbs> sup slush
4079 2011-05-18 21:57:55 <slush> ;;bc,stats
4080 2011-05-18 21:57:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124989 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 2 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 11 minutes and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244201.51406980
4081 2011-05-18 21:58:03 <slush> omg
4082 2011-05-18 21:58:24 <jlewis> :'[
4083 2011-05-18 21:58:27 <BlueMatt> ...yea
4084 2011-05-18 21:58:47 davux has left ()
4085 2011-05-18 21:58:50 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
4086 2011-05-18 21:58:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124989 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 2 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 11 minutes and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244201.51406980
4087 2011-05-18 22:01:38 euclid has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4088 2011-05-18 22:01:40 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4089 2011-05-18 22:02:08 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
4090 2011-05-18 22:02:28 RBecker has joined
4091 2011-05-18 22:02:46 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
4092 2011-05-18 22:02:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124990 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 1 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 minutes and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244025.80106310
4093 2011-05-18 22:03:40 DukeOfURL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4094 2011-05-18 22:03:56 <anarchyx> its the final countdown!
4095 2011-05-18 22:03:59 <anarchyx> tatata taaa
4096 2011-05-18 22:04:06 <anarchyx> tatatatataaaa
4097 2011-05-18 22:04:10 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
4098 2011-05-18 22:04:10 <gribble> 124990
4099 2011-05-18 22:04:14 <BlueMatt> 1 more block
4100 2011-05-18 22:04:17 <sipa> *drums*
4101 2011-05-18 22:04:20 <BlueMatt> who will be the luck low diff block finder
4102 2011-05-18 22:04:28 <sipa> pick me! pick me!
4103 2011-05-18 22:04:39 <edcba> so who is going to buy a d-wave one ?
4104 2011-05-18 22:05:01 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
4105 2011-05-18 22:05:02 <gribble> 124991
4106 2011-05-18 22:05:06 <jlewis> heyoooo
4107 2011-05-18 22:05:07 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
4108 2011-05-18 22:05:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124991 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244112.48777433
4109 2011-05-18 22:05:17 <BlueMatt> tada
4110 2011-05-18 22:05:27 <jlewis> wait
4111 2011-05-18 22:05:31 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,stats
4112 2011-05-18 22:05:32 <jlewis> the current difficulty didn't change :p
4113 2011-05-18 22:05:32 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
4114 2011-05-18 22:05:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124991 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244112.48777433
4115 2011-05-18 22:05:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124991 | Current Difficulty: 157426.20628986 | Next Difficulty At Block: 124991 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 244112.48777433
4116 2011-05-18 22:05:36 <anarchyx> lol
4117 2011-05-18 22:05:40 <ArtForz> 244112.5
4118 2011-05-18 22:05:40 <BlueMatt> guess it updates diff 1 block late
4119 2011-05-18 22:05:44 <ArtForz> yeah
4120 2011-05-18 22:05:47 <patapper> wait, what?
4121 2011-05-18 22:05:49 <ArtForz> it shows diff of last block found
4122 2011-05-18 22:05:49 <sipa> well, bitcoingd getinfo is also still the old value somehow
4123 2011-05-18 22:06:01 <sipa> ah, that explains
4124 2011-05-18 22:06:14 <ArtForz> the next block will already be at diff 244112.48777433
4125 2011-05-18 22:06:15 <patapper> so does anybody know who mined the last easy block? XD
4126 2011-05-18 22:06:23 <anarchyx> wasnt me :P
4127 2011-05-18 22:06:43 <patapper> it was a new address. could be anybody
4128 2011-05-18 22:08:00 glassresistor has quit (Quit: leaving)
4129 2011-05-18 22:08:18 <JFK911> what's it mean when deepbit shows a block in bold on the stats page
4130 2011-05-18 22:08:30 <jrmithdobbs> you genned that block
4131 2011-05-18 22:08:37 <patapper> whaaaaat
4132 2011-05-18 22:08:46 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
4133 2011-05-18 22:09:04 <JFK911> damn, i did two, 90 minutes apart, then
4134 2011-05-18 22:10:06 <jrmithdobbs> luck
4135 2011-05-18 22:10:16 <18VAADBET> hey, do you guys know who the webmaster for the main site is?
4136 2011-05-18 22:10:16 <JFK911> bad luck for not being solo
4137 2011-05-18 22:10:26 <sipa> ArtForz: i get 244112.48777434 (after rounding) ;)
4138 2011-05-18 22:10:29 <sipa> </nitpick>
4139 2011-05-18 22:10:43 <18VAADBET> i'm trying to find that video of the talk that was on the main site before it got a facelift
4140 2011-05-18 22:10:49 <ArtForz> I get 244112 (after rounding)
4141 2011-05-18 22:10:54 <sipa> ok, you win!
4142 2011-05-18 22:11:26 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
4143 2011-05-18 22:11:28 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124992 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 976450.38468506
4144 2011-05-18 22:11:29 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
4145 2011-05-18 22:11:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124992 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 976450.38468506
4146 2011-05-18 22:11:41 <JFK911> 976450!!
4147 2011-05-18 22:11:43 <JFK911> we are doomed
4148 2011-05-18 22:11:48 <JFK911> in 2 days
4149 2011-05-18 22:11:54 <jlewis> broken stats calculation :p
4150 2011-05-18 22:12:03 <sipa> wow, that difficulty rounding error is serious
4151 2011-05-18 22:12:23 <jrmithdobbs> ?
4152 2011-05-18 22:12:32 <right3ous> ;;bc,stats
4153 2011-05-18 22:12:33 <sipa> the real difficulty is 244112.48777434
4154 2011-05-18 22:12:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124992 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 0 hours, 40 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 976450.38468506
4155 2011-05-18 22:12:51 * jlewis grumbles at gribble
4156 2011-05-18 22:12:53 <sipa> 0.01% off
4157 2011-05-18 22:12:55 <JFK911> deepbit shows the same difficulty
4158 2011-05-18 22:12:59 <sipa> it's not gribble's fault
4159 2011-05-18 22:13:02 <sipa> it's a bug in bitcoind
4160 2011-05-18 22:13:06 <JFK911> not like the difference matters
4161 2011-05-18 22:13:15 <sipa> but only for the output, internally the calculations are all right
4162 2011-05-18 22:13:23 <jlewis> the next difficulty estimate is a bug in gribble, isn't it?
4163 2011-05-18 22:13:29 <sipa> no, it's a rounding error
4164 2011-05-18 22:13:46 <JFK911> the difficulty estimate is true and correct given the data
4165 2011-05-18 22:13:46 <sipa> extrapolation error, actually
4166 2011-05-18 22:14:44 zylche has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4167 2011-05-18 22:14:52 lumos has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4168 2011-05-18 22:15:11 cenuij has joined
4169 2011-05-18 22:15:12 cenuij has quit (Changing host)
4170 2011-05-18 22:15:12 cenuij has joined
4171 2011-05-18 22:15:20 right3ous has left ()
4172 2011-05-18 22:16:57 <lupine_85> ugh, litttle-endian bitmasks
4173 2011-05-18 22:17:57 <dinox> ;;bc,stats
4174 2011-05-18 22:17:59 warweed has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
4175 2011-05-18 22:17:59 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124994 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 2013 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 8 hours, 28 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 976450.38468506
4176 2011-05-18 22:19:23 <erbs> man this block chain is difficult
4177 2011-05-18 22:21:04 B0g4r7 has joined
4178 2011-05-18 22:22:44 <erbs> you got a block chain ?
4179 2011-05-18 22:22:50 <erbs> give it to me
4180 2011-05-18 22:23:02 <ArtForz> I herd u liek block chains....
4181 2011-05-18 22:23:06 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 150000
4182 2011-05-18 22:23:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 150000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 11 weeks, 3 days, 21 hours, 47 minutes, and 53 seconds
4183 2011-05-18 22:23:07 <erbs> hahah!
4184 2011-05-18 22:23:13 <sipa> so we put a block in your block in your block ...
4185 2011-05-18 22:23:46 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa-Sleep
4186 2011-05-18 22:24:00 <jrmithdobbs> cool everyone mining off your gaming box, feel free to jump now ;P
4187 2011-05-18 22:24:03 eao has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4188 2011-05-18 22:24:13 novacrown has joined
4189 2011-05-18 22:24:20 eao has joined
4190 2011-05-18 22:24:28 justmoon has joined
4191 2011-05-18 22:24:36 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
4192 2011-05-18 22:24:36 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.874,"low":6.6,"vol":27155,"buy":6.702,"sell":6.7021,"last":6.7021}}
4193 2011-05-18 22:24:44 NOTAL has joined
4194 2011-05-18 22:24:47 <Mookman288> It went down?
4195 2011-05-18 22:25:09 <novacrown> Anyone know where i can find out what the next difficulty level will be?
4196 2011-05-18 22:25:19 <novacrown> I heard it was going to skyrocket in 2 days, is that true?
4197 2011-05-18 22:25:23 <sipa> it just did
4198 2011-05-18 22:25:25 <justmoon> I'm trying to decide Webcoin's default fee behavior - is 0.01 still the recommended fee? can we get away with using 0.001?
4199 2011-05-18 22:25:25 <sipa> ;;bc,diff
4200 2011-05-18 22:25:26 <gribble> 244139.48158254
4201 2011-05-18 22:25:27 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,gen 150000
4202 2011-05-18 22:25:28 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 150000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 0.617983851319 BTC per day and 0.0257493271383 BTC per hour.
4203 2011-05-18 22:25:44 <gmaxwell> novacrown: you can estimate it based on the hash rate and apply whatever growth you think is reasonable.
4204 2011-05-18 22:25:47 <sipa> justmoon: 0.3.22 will change the min fee to 0.0005
4205 2011-05-18 22:26:07 <justmoon> sipa: is it safe to use the value right now though or will our tx not get confirmed?
4206 2011-05-18 22:26:10 <jlewis> ;;bc,gen 3000000
4207 2011-05-18 22:26:10 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 3000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 12.3596770264 BTC per day and 0.514986542766 BTC per hour.
4208 2011-05-18 22:26:20 <gmaxwell> at the beginning of the prior cycle I called 243254 for this one: so clearly it can be predicted.
4209 2011-05-18 22:26:20 <sipa> it may take a long time if you use that fee now
4210 2011-05-18 22:26:30 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
4211 2011-05-18 22:26:37 <justmoon> ok, thanks!
4212 2011-05-18 22:27:17 <erbs> webcoin looks very interesting
4213 2011-05-18 22:27:21 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4214 2011-05-18 22:27:22 Sedra- has joined
4215 2011-05-18 22:27:23 <gjs278> identify this face http://imageshack.us/m/823/7632/22230520409491481591377.jpg
4216 2011-05-18 22:27:28 <erbs> it doesn't store your private keys.. pretty cool
4217 2011-05-18 22:27:55 <justmoon> erbs: well it does store them, but on your computer :)
4218 2011-05-18 22:29:56 <novacrown> So can I ask you experts... when do you guys think the value of a bitcoin will go up to $10?
4219 2011-05-18 22:30:01 <novacrown> or will it ever?
4220 2011-05-18 22:30:16 <justmoon> novacrown: June 12th
4221 2011-05-18 22:30:24 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4222 2011-05-18 22:30:27 <justmoon> around 11am UTC I'd say
4223 2011-05-18 22:30:28 torsthaldo has joined
4224 2011-05-18 22:30:43 <novacrown> that seems like a very exact prediction
4225 2011-05-18 22:30:50 <justmoon> :D
4226 2011-05-18 22:31:00 <novacrown> ahh you're bullshitting....
4227 2011-05-18 22:31:08 <novacrown> i'm slow with these things
4228 2011-05-18 22:31:16 <justmoon> can't help it, trolling runs in our family
4229 2011-05-18 22:31:18 <jlewis> i wonder if anyone's tried to do any arbitrage with bitcoin
4230 2011-05-18 22:31:19 [Tycho] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4231 2011-05-18 22:31:19 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4232 2011-05-18 22:31:31 <erbs> jlewis yeah why not
4233 2011-05-18 22:31:50 <erbs> at this point the tx fees on the exchanges would eat away any arbitrage, but im sure it will be possible with more liquidity
4234 2011-05-18 22:32:10 <jlewis> well that's unclear
4235 2011-05-18 22:32:23 <jlewis> bitcoin is extremely volatile
4236 2011-05-18 22:32:30 <jlewis> you can trade bitcoin for... linden dollars
4237 2011-05-18 22:32:40 <jlewis> presumably linden dollars is similarly volatile against usd
4238 2011-05-18 22:33:19 <erbs> you can do a three-way or n-way arbitrage yeah
4239 2011-05-18 22:33:34 TheKid has left ()
4240 2011-05-18 22:33:46 <erbs> trade mtgoxusd, then the rusbtc or whatever the rouble one is etc
4241 2011-05-18 22:33:56 TheKid has joined
4242 2011-05-18 22:33:58 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
4243 2011-05-18 22:33:58 TheKid has joined
4244 2011-05-18 22:34:06 <erbs> but there are high tx fees compared to straight up forex so i don't think youll get much right now :)
4245 2011-05-18 22:34:12 Blitzboom has joined
4246 2011-05-18 22:34:12 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
4247 2011-05-18 22:34:12 Blitzboom has joined
4248 2011-05-18 22:34:15 <erbs> but hey maybe it will who knows
4249 2011-05-18 22:34:16 <jlewis> afaik it isn't arbitrage if it's less than 3 way
4250 2011-05-18 22:34:28 <jlewis> but yeah maybe you're right
4251 2011-05-18 22:34:57 <erbs> 3-way meaning 3 currencies.. for instance i can buy/sell btc on different USD-BTC exchanges if i felt like it i guess
4252 2011-05-18 22:35:08 Incitatus has joined
4253 2011-05-18 22:35:35 <erbs> i need to piss like the devil!
4254 2011-05-18 22:35:35 <novacrown> ;;bc,stats
4255 2011-05-18 22:35:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124996 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 2011 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 17 hours, 54 minutes, and 58 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 976450.38468506
4256 2011-05-18 22:35:54 [Tycho] has joined
4257 2011-05-18 22:36:13 <jlewis> erbs: i guess n-way really means n exchanges
4258 2011-05-18 22:36:30 <jlewis> but it's not arbitrage if it's just 1 exchange
4259 2011-05-18 22:37:02 <erbs> yeah true
4260 2011-05-18 22:37:08 prax_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4261 2011-05-18 22:37:12 <erbs> that will definitely be a money maker at some point
4262 2011-05-18 22:37:23 <novacrown> arbitrage.... more like garbitrage LOLL
4263 2011-05-18 22:37:25 [Tycho] has quit (Changing host)
4264 2011-05-18 22:37:25 [Tycho] has joined
4265 2011-05-18 22:37:26 <erbs> then everyone will jump on the bandwagon and itll be marginal/break even territory
4266 2011-05-18 22:38:30 <novacrown> why is the damn difficulty going up so high.... i can't support myself as a miner anymore
4267 2011-05-18 22:38:40 <ArtForz> löl
4268 2011-05-18 22:38:41 <novacrown> will it come back down after people stop mining?
4269 2011-05-18 22:38:43 <erbs> ive got 5 kids to feed and im mining all day
4270 2011-05-18 22:39:04 <novacrown> what am i gonna do with all these cardz yo
4271 2011-05-18 22:39:07 <ArtForz> well, only one way, strike for better pay.
4272 2011-05-18 22:39:15 roconnor has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
4273 2011-05-18 22:39:25 <novacrown> my computer can finally play crysis at least
4274 2011-05-18 22:39:27 <justmoon> ArtForz: lol
4275 2011-05-18 22:39:33 <justmoon> two week strike sound good?
4276 2011-05-18 22:39:36 roconnor has joined
4277 2011-05-18 22:39:58 Blitzboom_ has joined
4278 2011-05-18 22:40:01 <metonymous_> question: do pooled mining operations that "pay per share" artificially reduce the reported difficulty so they can get an idea of the 'rate' of work being done by the miners? have I got that part right?
4279 2011-05-18 22:40:17 <BlueMatt> yep
4280 2011-05-18 22:40:20 <novacrown> are you guys all pissed about the difficulty increase?
4281 2011-05-18 22:40:23 <metonymous_> yay!
4282 2011-05-18 22:40:27 <metonymous_> when did it increase?
4283 2011-05-18 22:40:43 <BlueMatt> novacrown: Im happy, Im not much of a miner but love to see total mining power go up
4284 2011-05-18 22:40:47 <BlueMatt> means the network is in heavy use
4285 2011-05-18 22:41:14 skeledrew has joined
4286 2011-05-18 22:41:28 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4287 2011-05-18 22:41:33 <novacrown> a friend of mine just spend thousands on new $750 GPU's and he says they're almost worthless now... he's going to be making $20/day after this weekend vs $150/day now
4288 2011-05-18 22:41:41 <ArtForz> löl
4289 2011-05-18 22:41:45 <metonymous_> u could always play video games
4290 2011-05-18 22:41:49 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4291 2011-05-18 22:41:51 <ArtForz> sucks to not think about the future
4292 2011-05-18 22:41:52 <metonymous_> open a lan or something
4293 2011-05-18 22:41:53 <sipa> ÅñīÄÇÄẽ Ääỵ?
4294 2011-05-18 22:42:07 <metonymous_> (incompatible encoding)
4295 2011-05-18 22:42:13 <ArtForz> ümläüt däy
4296 2011-05-18 22:42:19 <metonymous_> ø
4297 2011-05-18 22:42:21 <edcba> $20/day is still nice no ?
4298 2011-05-18 22:42:22 <BlueMatt> sipa: no, its art his germaness means he likes them umlauts
4299 2011-05-18 22:42:26 <metonymous_> ü
4300 2011-05-18 22:42:35 <BlueMatt> such a kraut
4301 2011-05-18 22:42:44 <xelister> gremans are attacking
4302 2011-05-18 22:42:46 <xelister> man the harpoons
4303 2011-05-18 22:42:48 <justmoon> BlueMatt: careful, mein freund
4304 2011-05-18 22:42:52 NOTAL has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4305 2011-05-18 22:42:53 <sipa> dutch has the same symbol, called trema, but with a very different meaning
4306 2011-05-18 22:42:58 <metonymous_> ach! tung
4307 2011-05-18 22:43:02 <sipa> i'm using an international qwerty keyboard though
4308 2011-05-18 22:43:07 <erbs> yeah the calculation on profitability of buying mining equipment.. should take into acct the diff. increase
4309 2011-05-18 22:43:10 <novacrown> $20/day after electrocity, at that rate he'll never recoup the THOUSANDS he paid for the cards
4310 2011-05-18 22:43:12 <BlueMatt> justmoon: its all good, me lives in FRA atm
4311 2011-05-18 22:43:12 <metonymous_> Å
4312 2011-05-18 22:43:13 <ArtForz> do not fingerpoken die graphicskarten!
4313 2011-05-18 22:43:17 <xelister> hey
4314 2011-05-18 22:43:19 <novacrown> after it goes up again it'll cost him more in electricity
4315 2011-05-18 22:43:27 <justmoon> BlueMatt: ah, so careful, mon ami? :D
4316 2011-05-18 22:43:34 <novacrown> ;;bc,stats
4317 2011-05-18 22:43:35 <metonymous_> my favourite unicidess... â
4318 2011-05-18 22:43:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 124999 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 2008 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 2 hours, 8 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 639945.50430211
4319 2011-05-18 22:43:37 <xelister> What does a block generated by a mining cartell say to a block generated by SOLO miner?
4320 2011-05-18 22:43:44 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: now thats some good southpark-style german there
4321 2011-05-18 22:43:47 <BlueMatt> justmoon: no frankfurt, de
4322 2011-05-18 22:43:53 <justmoon> south park german was epic
4323 2011-05-18 22:43:54 sethsethseth has joined
4324 2011-05-18 22:43:59 <erbs> ppl will just ebay their cards and mining will go down if it becomes too expensive
4325 2011-05-18 22:44:00 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: blinkenlichten ;)
4326 2011-05-18 22:44:00 <BlueMatt> (sorry that one was a bit wrong)
4327 2011-05-18 22:44:04 <jlewis> xelister: is that the start of a joke? :)
4328 2011-05-18 22:44:08 <xelister> jlewis: sure
4329 2011-05-18 22:44:12 <justmoon> BlueMatt: I'm from Stuttgart, now in switzerland
4330 2011-05-18 22:44:18 <jlewis> xelister: i don't know, what?
4331 2011-05-18 22:44:29 <BlueMatt> Im from north carolina, but thats another story
4332 2011-05-18 22:44:36 <xelister> jlewis: What does a block generated by a mining cartell say to a block generated by SOLO miner? It says: hey Luke, I'm YOUR FATHER
4333 2011-05-18 22:44:43 <novacrown> question: when do you think a full-size casino will open that supports bitcoins?
4334 2011-05-18 22:44:46 <metonymous_> i don't get it
4335 2011-05-18 22:44:48 <jlewis> jlewis: :|
4336 2011-05-18 22:44:49 <jlewis> oops
4337 2011-05-18 22:44:54 <jlewis> xelister: :|
4338 2011-05-18 22:45:08 <xelister> hey not so fast Luke, I'm your father
4339 2011-05-18 22:45:17 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
4340 2011-05-18 22:45:19 <xelister> block chain overtaking? you guys are slow =)
4341 2011-05-18 22:45:27 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
4342 2011-05-18 22:45:27 Blitzboom has joined
4343 2011-05-18 22:45:29 <ArtForz> no Luke, I'm your father!
4344 2011-05-18 22:45:33 <BlueMatt> anyone want to repetitively build wx until they find which commits are required for gtk3/ubuntu 11.04 operation?
4345 2011-05-18 22:45:37 <metonymous_> no, I'm your father!
4346 2011-05-18 22:45:39 <xelister> even better, yeap
4347 2011-05-18 22:45:49 <BlueMatt> damn you have a bunch of gay dads there luke
4348 2011-05-18 22:45:50 psymin has joined
4349 2011-05-18 22:46:01 <anarchyx> hahaha
4350 2011-05-18 22:46:18 <xelister> =)
4351 2011-05-18 22:46:19 <metonymous_> how much did the difficulty increase by, as a factor, did it double?
4352 2011-05-18 22:46:26 <BlueMatt> almost
4353 2011-05-18 22:46:27 <ArtForz> nope
4354 2011-05-18 22:46:37 <sipa> x1.55 or so
4355 2011-05-18 22:46:39 <BlueMatt> 15k->24k
4356 2011-05-18 22:46:42 <xelister> metonymous_: the diff increased, over a period of 7 days, by a factor of FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
4357 2011-05-18 22:46:48 <metonymous_> lol
4358 2011-05-18 22:46:56 <sipa> ľóÅ
4359 2011-05-18 22:46:59 <anarchyx> we gonna be hitting 100k soon?
4360 2011-05-18 22:46:59 <ArtForz> ;;calc 244139.48158254 / 157426.2062898
4361 2011-05-18 22:47:00 <gribble> 244,139.48158254 / 157,426.2062898 = 1.55081855
4362 2011-05-18 22:47:00 <BlueMatt> yep, that pretty much sums it up
4363 2011-05-18 22:47:00 <xelister> lól
4364 2011-05-18 22:47:02 <psymin> I haven't used bitcoin in like over a year. On Saturday I'm gonna be chatting with ppl about it. got any random info to inform me of before that? :D
4365 2011-05-18 22:47:06 <metonymous_> is the difficulty linear with time to mine?
4366 2011-05-18 22:47:07 <sipa> anarchyx: 100k what?
4367 2011-05-18 22:47:09 <sipa> metonymous_: yes
4368 2011-05-18 22:47:16 <metonymous_> time to pull out methinks...
4369 2011-05-18 22:47:16 <xelister> metonymous_: ye
4370 2011-05-18 22:47:22 <anarchyx> i mean 1 million difficulty
4371 2011-05-18 22:47:26 <novacrown> how many bitcoins to each of you have?
4372 2011-05-18 22:47:31 <jlewis> over 9000
4373 2011-05-18 22:47:32 <novacrown> i have around 150
4374 2011-05-18 22:47:33 <xelister> 1 milion difficulty will suck so much
4375 2011-05-18 22:47:35 <metonymous_> to each of you!
4376 2011-05-18 22:47:37 <ArtForz> anarchyx: I'd guess about 2 months
4377 2011-05-18 22:47:38 <roconnor> ;;bc,gen 1000
4378 2011-05-18 22:47:39 <BlueMatt> psymin: well, satoshi is gone...
4379 2011-05-18 22:47:40 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 0.00411989234213 BTC per day and 0.000171662180922 BTC per hour.
4380 2011-05-18 22:47:50 <xelister> BlueMatt: can't we reason with Yakuza?
4381 2011-05-18 22:47:52 <psymin> BlueMatt: no longer part of the project?
4382 2011-05-18 22:47:58 <sipa> he's disappeared
4383 2011-05-18 22:48:06 <psymin> okiedokie
4384 2011-05-18 22:48:09 <sipa> not answering to mails anymore
4385 2011-05-18 22:48:11 <justmoon> BlueMatt: he isn't gone, just not active on the forums
4386 2011-05-18 22:48:12 <BlueMatt> psymin: well no longer part of the project, and appears to have stoped responding to email in the past couple wekks
4387 2011-05-18 22:48:18 <metonymous_> ;;bc,gen 6400000
4388 2011-05-18 22:48:19 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 6400000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 26.3673109896 BTC per day and 1.0986379579 BTC per hour.
4389 2011-05-18 22:48:31 <metonymous_> dammit... 1/2
4390 2011-05-18 22:48:32 <xelister> maybe Satoshi also hired 2 young japanese "assistants"
4391 2011-05-18 22:48:37 <BlueMatt> justmoon: have you spoken with him in the past couple weeks?
4392 2011-05-18 22:48:37 <psymin> hehe
4393 2011-05-18 22:48:55 <psymin> how long is it taking decent non gpu setups to make a block?
4394 2011-05-18 22:48:58 <metonymous_> last time it jumped up, didn't mtgox jump up lots o dollars?
4395 2011-05-18 22:49:00 <BlueMatt> xelister: Yakuza?
4396 2011-05-18 22:49:00 <novacrown> so noone can match my 150 BTC
4397 2011-05-18 22:49:04 <jlewis> psymin: forever
4398 2011-05-18 22:49:06 <justmoon> BlueMatt: nope, but mike has I think
4399 2011-05-18 22:49:09 <metonymous_> novacrown: wa?
4400 2011-05-18 22:49:11 <psymin> jlewis: :P
4401 2011-05-18 22:49:15 <ArtForz> BlueMatt: you mean spoken with *Him* ;)
4402 2011-05-18 22:49:19 <jlewis> psymin: no, seriously, its like a year or something
4403 2011-05-18 22:49:20 <sipa> justmoon: mike hasn't heard from him the past weeks anymore
4404 2011-05-18 22:49:28 <psymin> jlewis: wow! Really?
4405 2011-05-18 22:49:30 <jlewis> yes
4406 2011-05-18 22:49:33 <sipa> neither has gavin, afaik
4407 2011-05-18 22:49:33 <BlueMatt> justmoon: last I heard mike hadn't spoken with him in couple weeks, and seems to think hes finally completely gone
4408 2011-05-18 22:49:36 <anarchyx> maybe hes on vacation
4409 2011-05-18 22:49:44 <novacrown> metonymous_: how many bitcoins do you have?
4410 2011-05-18 22:49:45 <justmoon> BlueMatt: huh, interesting
4411 2011-05-18 22:49:54 <BlueMatt> though thats all just hearsay...
4412 2011-05-18 22:49:55 <erbs> he bought a few lambirghinis / mansions after the recent price increase
4413 2011-05-18 22:49:56 <xelister> maybe he just borrowed MtGox's
4414 2011-05-18 22:49:58 <xelister> ...`assistants`
4415 2011-05-18 22:50:00 <metonymous_> jlewis said he's got over 9000
4416 2011-05-18 22:50:05 <ArtForz> nah, he burned to ashes after being exposed to sunlight.
4417 2011-05-18 22:50:05 <novacrown> that's bullshit
4418 2011-05-18 22:50:07 <BlueMatt> though they did get the domain back from satoshi like 3 days ago so...
4419 2011-05-18 22:50:11 <novacrown> he's trollin'
4420 2011-05-18 22:50:19 <sipa> metonymous_: "over 9000" is a meme, a quote from dragonbaal z
4421 2011-05-18 22:50:23 <justmoon> he's probably enjoying his private jet, cocain and hookers
4422 2011-05-18 22:50:23 <sipa> *dragonball z
4423 2011-05-18 22:50:24 <xelister> ArtForz: he left an 5970 unattended near a flamable wallpaper
4424 2011-05-18 22:50:50 <novacrown> is the rule "never let another man know how many BTC you have" in effect here?
4425 2011-05-18 22:50:50 <BlueMatt> or...wait for it...he just got bored of working on bitcoin for years
4426 2011-05-18 22:51:03 <xelister> yes it's really dull now
4427 2011-05-18 22:51:06 <BlueMatt> novacrown: not really, but youll probably lose to ArtForz
4428 2011-05-18 22:51:06 <xelister> with the x10 price jump
4429 2011-05-18 22:51:22 <xelister> and 0.5 mil theoretical worth of what coins he&friends accumulated
4430 2011-05-18 22:51:49 <metonymous_> novacrown: ~190
4431 2011-05-18 22:51:58 <novacrown> nice
4432 2011-05-18 22:52:00 <ArtForz> ~63k
4433 2011-05-18 22:52:01 <novacrown> thanks
4434 2011-05-18 22:52:01 <justmoon> I fixed a bug in my client that didn't accept the genesis transaction as a valid input, so he's good there :P
4435 2011-05-18 22:52:05 <xelister> I had thousand's
4436 2011-05-18 22:52:08 <xelister> and sold out :-E
4437 2011-05-18 22:52:12 <xelister> Blitzboom: :-E
4438 2011-05-18 22:52:12 <metonymous_> :)
4439 2011-05-18 22:52:17 <novacrown> what did you sell at?
4440 2011-05-18 22:52:26 <xelister> heh should had waited it out 0.8 -> 8.0 lol..... :D
4441 2011-05-18 22:52:29 <xelister> but who could have known
4442 2011-05-18 22:52:32 <anarchyx> ArtForz: i thought you would have over 100k :)
4443 2011-05-18 22:52:38 <Blitzboom> xelister: yep ⦠who couldâve known
4444 2011-05-18 22:52:42 <xelister> ;)
4445 2011-05-18 22:52:42 <ArtForz> anarchyx: nah
4446 2011-05-18 22:52:46 <Mookman288> xelister: someone had to have sold a lot recently.
4447 2011-05-18 22:52:53 <ArtForz> need to sell a lot to pay for new rigs
4448 2011-05-18 22:52:55 <Mookman288> xelister: probably saw the $8 and said "time to cash it all in!"
4449 2011-05-18 22:53:11 <anarchyx> true
4450 2011-05-18 22:53:15 <xelister> fuck new rigs
4451 2011-05-18 22:53:17 <xelister> fuuuuuuu
4452 2011-05-18 22:53:19 <xelister> FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
4453 2011-05-18 22:53:31 <xelister> what do you think will happen to value of BTC when diff is like 1 milion
4454 2011-05-18 22:53:34 * ArtForz hands xelister a few spare Fs and Us
4455 2011-05-18 22:53:37 <jrmithdobbs> 150% diff jump and prices go down
4456 2011-05-18 22:53:42 <jrmithdobbs> this market is quite literally insane
4457 2011-05-18 22:53:42 <jrmithdobbs> haha
4458 2011-05-18 22:53:50 <ArtForz> woohoo!
4459 2011-05-18 22:54:04 <xelister> what do you think will happen to value of BTC when diff is like 1 milion...
4460 2011-05-18 22:54:06 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,gen 90000
4461 2011-05-18 22:54:09 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 90000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 0.370790310791 BTC per day and 0.015449596283 BTC per hour.
4462 2011-05-18 22:54:12 <xelister> @10 usd? @50 usd?
4463 2011-05-18 22:54:16 <jlewis> jrmithdobbs: presumably there's a lag behind difficulty events
4464 2011-05-18 22:54:23 <ArtForz> whocares usd?
4465 2011-05-18 22:54:23 <anarchyx> xelister: above 10 for sure
4466 2011-05-18 22:54:31 <jlewis> most mtgox orders aren't placed that recently, i don't think
4467 2011-05-18 22:54:31 <Blitzboom> ArtForz = selling?
4468 2011-05-18 22:54:33 <jrmithdobbs> jlewis: ya i know, just a comment
4469 2011-05-18 22:54:34 <Blitzboom> TIME TO SELL
4470 2011-05-18 22:54:40 <ArtForz> Blitzboom: always selling
4471 2011-05-18 22:54:41 <xelister> anarchyx: still would have to be like @30 to make mining now profitable
4472 2011-05-18 22:54:46 <xelister> Blitzboom: you troll you ;)
4473 2011-05-18 22:54:59 <midnightmagic> Wed May 18 15:49:59 2011: New bid: 250.912 @ $4.9 per <-- LOL there's an optimistic chap.
4474 2011-05-18 22:55:00 <ArtForz> xelister: huh?
4475 2011-05-18 22:55:00 <xelister> but @30 is insane
4476 2011-05-18 22:55:01 <anarchyx> xelister: depends if you recouped your investment or not
4477 2011-05-18 22:55:02 <xelister> or.... is it?
4478 2011-05-18 22:55:05 <jrmithdobbs> jlewis: also, market is up so commodities go down ;P
4479 2011-05-18 22:55:19 <xelister> I guess @30 is impossible
4480 2011-05-18 22:55:22 <ArtForz> even $10 would still be quite profitable with GPUs at diff 1M
4481 2011-05-18 22:55:26 <xelister> because some people hoard like 0.5 MILION COINS
4482 2011-05-18 22:55:33 <anarchyx> i agree with artforz
4483 2011-05-18 22:55:37 <xelister> there is not 15 MILION USD worth of bitcoin economy goods/size
4484 2011-05-18 22:55:45 <Mookman288> Well the best way to drive up prices is to squirrel it away.
4485 2011-05-18 22:55:58 <xelister> isnt this a flaw of bitcoin
4486 2011-05-18 22:55:59 <ArtForz> now < $2 at diff 1M, that would hurt.
4487 2011-05-18 22:56:09 <xelister> few guys (Satoshi and his `asistants` and friends)
4488 2011-05-18 22:56:14 <jrmithdobbs> a couple people have been forcefully pushing prices down all day, no need to worry really
4489 2011-05-18 22:56:16 <xelister> have like 500,000 BTC
4490 2011-05-18 22:56:21 <Blitzboom> itâs a flaw of the initial wealth distribution combined with how little of the public knew about bitcoin
4491 2011-05-18 22:56:21 <ArtForz> only?
4492 2011-05-18 22:56:25 <anarchyx> jrmithdobbs: how?
4493 2011-05-18 22:56:28 <xelister> or much more, dont remember
4494 2011-05-18 22:56:30 <Blitzboom> but it should sort itself out over time
4495 2011-05-18 22:56:30 <ArtForz> I expect satoshi to have 2M or so
4496 2011-05-18 22:56:38 <xelister> this means they have theoretically 20,000,000 USD
4497 2011-05-18 22:56:40 <sipa> my guess is around 1M-1.5M
4498 2011-05-18 22:56:43 <sipa> no
4499 2011-05-18 22:56:43 <jrmithdobbs> anarchyx: watch depth of market and laugh at the tards trying to sell large sums outside of darkpools
4500 2011-05-18 22:56:46 <xelister> now that is a fucking big inflation
4501 2011-05-18 22:56:51 <jrmithdobbs> anarchyx: they're the ones pushing it down
4502 2011-05-18 22:56:55 <xelister> isnt bitcoin totally inflationable because of this?
4503 2011-05-18 22:57:04 <ArtForz> well, okay, satoshi and the 2 other early adopters.
4504 2011-05-18 22:57:08 <xelister> satoshi drops some coins -> BAM -> price can go 10.00 to 0.001
4505 2011-05-18 22:57:19 <anarchyx> jrmithdobbs: lets buy large sums outside of darkpools then :)
4506 2011-05-18 22:57:30 <Blitzboom> yeah. itâs a bit weird to start a whole new financial system with <10 people
4507 2011-05-18 22:57:33 <gjs278> everyone knows this project was just satoshis get rich in two years scheme
4508 2011-05-18 22:57:33 <sipa> there is no offer for 2M BTC
4509 2011-05-18 22:57:48 <ArtForz> xelister: I kinda would like to see that
4510 2011-05-18 22:57:52 <sipa> if one wanted to sell such an amount, prices would drop
4511 2011-05-18 22:57:57 <jrmithdobbs> anarchyx: go for it
4512 2011-05-18 22:57:58 <Blitzboom> clearly they havenât PROMOTED BITCOIN ENOUGH
4513 2011-05-18 22:57:58 <midnightmagic> i would also like to see that.
4514 2011-05-18 22:58:20 <anarchyx> i still think were just at the start of it.. once we hit 1k USD/BTC it will finally be getting up to its value and beyond :P
4515 2011-05-18 22:58:24 wolfspraul has joined
4516 2011-05-18 22:58:26 <jrmithdobbs> anarchyx: there's one guy been trying to dump 300+ on open market for like 6 hours, lol
4517 2011-05-18 22:58:44 <JFK911> nobody's buying bitcoins?
4518 2011-05-18 22:58:45 <ArtForz> millions of miners suddenly crying out in terror ;)
4519 2011-05-18 22:58:57 <jlewis> jrmithdobbs: are dark pool *transactions* unreported? or is it just the orders?
4520 2011-05-18 22:59:04 <ArtForz> just orders
4521 2011-05-18 22:59:12 <jrmithdobbs> just orders
4522 2011-05-18 22:59:29 <ArtForz> did I say just orders? I meant just orders.
4523 2011-05-18 22:59:35 <anarchyx> if price drops below 1 im buying everything
4524 2011-05-18 22:59:46 <jlewis> i wonder if anyone's done any algorithmic trading on mtgox
4525 2011-05-18 22:59:59 byronbb has quit ()
4526 2011-05-18 23:00:13 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
4527 2011-05-18 23:00:15 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125003 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 2004 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 11 hours, 55 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 674706.42956817
4528 2011-05-18 23:00:27 <ArtForz> it's over 9000!!!
4529 2011-05-18 23:00:40 <sethsethseth> wtf
4530 2011-05-18 23:00:59 <sethsethseth> why does everyone always get super lucky right after the difficulty increase
4531 2011-05-18 23:01:14 <Blitzboom> ?
4532 2011-05-18 23:01:16 <Mookman288> huh?
4533 2011-05-18 23:01:48 <ArtForz> ?uhu?
4534 2011-05-18 23:01:49 <sethsethseth> right after it goes up, the estimate says some astronomical figure
4535 2011-05-18 23:02:05 <Blitzboom> i still think bitcoin inflation is insane
4536 2011-05-18 23:02:05 <ArtForz> randomness is random, news at 5 2/3
4537 2011-05-18 23:02:09 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,diff
4538 2011-05-18 23:02:09 <gribble> 244139.48158254
4539 2011-05-18 23:02:15 <Blitzboom> should have made that curve slower
4540 2011-05-18 23:02:21 <sipa> ArtForz: news is *maybe* at 5 2/3
4541 2011-05-18 23:02:29 <Blitzboom> but then satoshi wouldnât have got such a large share :D
4542 2011-05-18 23:02:43 <midnightmagic> In soviet Russia, Satoshi mines YOU.
4543 2011-05-18 23:03:15 trekdanne has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
4544 2011-05-18 23:03:27 Kawa has joined
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4547 2011-05-18 23:04:08 <BlueMatt> can someone test really quick and see if 32 bit linux binaries will show the gui on ubuntu before complaining about db stuff?
4548 2011-05-18 23:05:09 <sipa> can i test on a 64-bit ubuntu?
4549 2011-05-18 23:05:17 <BlueMatt> yea thats what I meant sorry
4550 2011-05-18 23:05:22 <BlueMatt> on 64-bit does it open gui
4551 2011-05-18 23:05:56 <sipa> which binary?
4552 2011-05-18 23:06:03 <BlueMatt> the 32bit gui one
4553 2011-05-18 23:06:16 <sipa> where to find it?
4554 2011-05-18 23:06:18 <luke-jr> regression in git
4555 2011-05-18 23:06:19 Guest92902 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4556 2011-05-18 23:06:25 <BlueMatt> 0.3.21 one
4557 2011-05-18 23:06:25 <luke-jr> on a call atm, will tell more when done
4558 2011-05-18 23:06:27 <BlueMatt> ie regular one
4559 2011-05-18 23:06:28 <sipa> oh
4560 2011-05-18 23:06:37 <novacrown> question: which is the best mining software? and on windows or linux?
4561 2011-05-18 23:06:45 <sipa> novacrown: what hardware?
4562 2011-05-18 23:07:08 psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4563 2011-05-18 23:07:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: no gui visible
4564 2011-05-18 23:08:04 <novacrown> sipa: uh, 9 x 6690's
4565 2011-05-18 23:08:07 <sipa> just a popup with: EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
4566 2011-05-18 23:08:07 <sipa> DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
4567 2011-05-18 23:08:08 <sipa> bitcoin in AppInit()
4568 2011-05-18 23:08:10 <metonymous_> does it have to be ubuntu?
4569 2011-05-18 23:08:18 <BlueMatt> sipa: nvm, thanks
4570 2011-05-18 23:08:24 <BlueMatt> it sort-of works for me...
4571 2011-05-18 23:08:29 <nanotube> hey guys... trying to start a testnet node with -server... it chokes on 'must set rpcpassword=<password> in bitcoin.conf with owner-readable-only permissions. (i have all that)
4572 2011-05-18 23:08:42 <novacrown> HD6990
4573 2011-05-18 23:08:43 <BlueMatt> nanotube: with -daemon ?
4574 2011-05-18 23:08:48 Kawa has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4575 2011-05-18 23:08:49 <metonymous_> u must set that variable in the file
4576 2011-05-18 23:08:57 <metonymous_> :P
4577 2011-05-18 23:09:02 <sipa> novacrown: i'd suggest poclbm, linux, ati 2.4
4578 2011-05-18 23:09:04 <nanotube> BlueMatt: nope, just -datadir=<somedir> -testnet -addnode=<somenode> -server
4579 2011-05-18 23:09:13 <anarchyx> fucking ikea balls
4580 2011-05-18 23:09:14 * BlueMatt wants to go to bed...has to wait for another 64-bit bitcoin build for 0.3.22rc2 :(
4581 2011-05-18 23:09:20 <BlueMatt> nanotube: hangs how?
4582 2011-05-18 23:09:22 <BlueMatt> just hangs?
4583 2011-05-18 23:09:23 <sipa> BlueMatt: take it easy
4584 2011-05-18 23:09:33 <nanotube> BlueMatt: no, it doesn't hang. it gives that error in the cli, and exits.
4585 2011-05-18 23:09:43 <BlueMatt> oh...
4586 2011-05-18 23:09:56 <BlueMatt> wait is bitcoin.conf in datadir or in ~/.bitcoin ?
4587 2011-05-18 23:10:11 <metonymous_> datadir
4588 2011-05-18 23:10:15 <metonymous_> i figured taht one out
4589 2011-05-18 23:10:16 <nanotube> BlueMatt: it's in the datadir which i specify.
4590 2011-05-18 23:10:20 <metonymous_> if u set datadir, everthing goes in there
4591 2011-05-18 23:10:28 <metonymous_> unless u override them
4592 2011-05-18 23:10:36 <BlueMatt> there was some kind of bug about bitcoin.conf in datadir iirc, let me look it up
4593 2011-05-18 23:11:25 <nanotube> BlueMatt: i specify datadir as ~/.bitcoin-testnet. all files go into ~/.bitcoin-testnet/testnet as expected.
4594 2011-05-18 23:11:31 lemonade_ has joined
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4596 2011-05-18 23:11:50 <nanotube> the error complains about the .conf file, looking for it, as expected, in ~/.bitcoin-testnet/testnet/bitcoin.conf
4597 2011-05-18 23:11:55 Aahzmundus has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
4598 2011-05-18 23:12:07 <nanotube> the file does exist, and it is set to 600 permissions, and it has rpcpassword=somepassword in it
4599 2011-05-18 23:12:13 <nanotube> and yet.. it gives me the error
4600 2011-05-18 23:12:20 <BlueMatt> oh sorry, nvm that bug was that bitcoin.conf doesnt get read for datadir which it should (when placed in ~/.bitcoin)
4601 2011-05-18 23:12:34 <BlueMatt> nanotube: can you try copying to ~/.bitcoin and see what happens?
4602 2011-05-18 23:13:02 <novacrown> is it possible to write a faster mining program?
4603 2011-05-18 23:13:16 <BlueMatt> novacrown: cpu, maybe...gpu not really
4604 2011-05-18 23:13:26 <BlueMatt> they are all pretty far optimized
4605 2011-05-18 23:13:32 <ArtForz> 3-4% maybe
4606 2011-05-18 23:13:41 <guiklb> difficulty is relative to the number of current miners ?
4607 2011-05-18 23:13:56 <lfm> novacrown: sure go ahead
4608 2011-05-18 23:13:56 <ArtForz> no
4609 2011-05-18 23:14:16 <ArtForz> difficulty is relative to the average total hahrate over the previous 2016 block interval
4610 2011-05-18 23:14:25 <novacrown> should i BUY or SELL right now?
4611 2011-05-18 23:14:31 <ArtForz> yes
4612 2011-05-18 23:14:34 <lfm> no
4613 2011-05-18 23:14:39 <BlueMatt> yes
4614 2011-05-18 23:14:42 <ArtForz> maybe
4615 2011-05-18 23:14:50 <lemonade_> sell
4616 2011-05-18 23:14:56 <BlueMatt> buy
4617 2011-05-18 23:14:56 <guiklb> ok so, lets say that 50% of the current global miners stop mining. will difficulty decrease on next blocks ?
4618 2011-05-18 23:15:07 <novacrown> yes
4619 2011-05-18 23:15:07 <ArtForz> sell lemonade, buy BlueMatt
4620 2011-05-18 23:15:26 * BlueMatt for sale, 50 BTC
4621 2011-05-18 23:15:39 <ArtForz> guiklb: yes
4622 2011-05-18 23:15:44 vorlov has joined
4623 2011-05-18 23:15:45 <ArtForz> in 2010 blocks or so
4624 2011-05-18 23:15:46 <luke-jr> sipa: were you spent-per-txout?
4625 2011-05-18 23:15:58 <sipa> luke-jr: i wrote that, yes
4626 2011-05-18 23:15:59 <BlueMatt> wasnt that merged?
4627 2011-05-18 23:16:06 <lfm> guiklb: ya, if they represent 50% of the computing power then the difficulty should go to half the level
4628 2011-05-18 23:16:07 <sipa> yes, in 0.3.21
4629 2011-05-18 23:16:10 <luke-jr> sipa: it seems to have introduced a regression in SelectCoinsMinConf
4630 2011-05-18 23:16:26 <sipa> ow
4631 2011-05-18 23:16:29 <sipa> please elaborate
4632 2011-05-18 23:16:39 <luke-jr> sipa: someone just told me the useless subcent tx fees are back in git
4633 2011-05-18 23:17:00 <novacrown> i know why you guys be trollin me
4634 2011-05-18 23:17:07 <novacrown> you're scared if i learn too much i'll compete with you
4635 2011-05-18 23:17:13 <ArtForz> novacrown: no, never!
4636 2011-05-18 23:17:17 <BlueMatt> novacrown: no one knows the future...no one has any idea
4637 2011-05-18 23:17:22 <lfm> novacrown: yup
4638 2011-05-18 23:17:26 <ArtForz> there aint no trolls here sir!
4639 2011-05-18 23:17:33 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4640 2011-05-18 23:17:35 <BlueMatt> never trolls here, no sir
4641 2011-05-18 23:17:42 <sipa> luke-jr: you were the one who wrote the patch that solved that, right?
4642 2011-05-18 23:17:46 <luke-jr> sipa: yes
4643 2011-05-18 23:17:55 <nanotube> BlueMatt: you mean, copy the testnet dir to ~/.bitcoin?
4644 2011-05-18 23:18:01 <sipa> well, can you verify in the code that the problem exists again?
4645 2011-05-18 23:18:03 <BlueMatt> nanotube: just the bitcoin.conf
4646 2011-05-18 23:18:04 <nanotube> BlueMatt: i'll try. if that works... then we have found a bug that needs fixing. :)
4647 2011-05-18 23:18:08 <lfm> well it never really was completly solved
4648 2011-05-18 23:18:12 <BlueMatt> nanotube: yessir
4649 2011-05-18 23:18:16 <nanotube> BlueMatt: there already is a copy of bitcoin.conf in ~/.bitcoin
4650 2011-05-18 23:18:17 <luke-jr> sipa: looking at it, but I don't really understand your changes
4651 2011-05-18 23:18:18 <guiklb> i see, thanks.
4652 2011-05-18 23:18:32 <BlueMatt> nanotube: oh, well in ~/.bitcoin/testnet (assuming you are using testnet)
4653 2011-05-18 23:18:38 <sipa> luke-jr: it's mainly just keeping tx+output instead of just tx
4654 2011-05-18 23:18:54 mosi has quit (BC2!~mos@dongs.dtegaming.com|Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
4655 2011-05-18 23:19:20 <nanotube> BlueMatt: yep, using testnet.
4656 2011-05-18 23:19:24 <sipa> but i don't remember the details of the change
4657 2011-05-18 23:19:32 <sipa> luke-jr: i'll have a look at it myself later
4658 2011-05-18 23:20:06 <luke-jr> sipa: what was the deal with removing the mature-generation requirement?
4659 2011-05-18 23:20:22 <nanotube> BlueMatt: it works without -datadir (i.e., sticking things into the default location, which for testnet is ~/.bitcoin/testnet
4660 2011-05-18 23:20:28 <nanotube> BlueMatt: so... it's a confirmed bug for me.
4661 2011-05-18 23:20:39 <novacrown> should i do my trade in the dark pool or normal?
4662 2011-05-18 23:20:46 <ArtForz> novacrown: yes.
4663 2011-05-18 23:20:58 <novacrown> yes dark pool?
4664 2011-05-18 23:21:06 <ArtForz> yes, one or the other.
4665 2011-05-18 23:21:06 <BlueMatt> novacrown: no
4666 2011-05-18 23:21:06 <lfm> novacrown: if you have to ask, you should use the normal one
4667 2011-05-18 23:21:09 <metonymous_> so once bitcoin generation 'halves' so much that mining yields less than, say, 0.01BTC, the reason people would continue to mine is for the embedded transaction fees?
4668 2011-05-18 23:21:16 eternal1 has joined
4669 2011-05-18 23:21:18 <luke-jr> sipa: it seems your changes no longer mind spending immature generation coins?
4670 2011-05-18 23:21:19 <jrmithdobbs> novacrown: if it's >$1kusd in value probably darkpool if you don't want to move the market
4671 2011-05-18 23:21:20 <ArtForz> or both ;)
4672 2011-05-18 23:21:24 <BlueMatt> nanotube: sounds like it, does it work with just bitcoin.conf in ~/.bitcoin/testnet and the rest in -datadir?
4673 2011-05-18 23:21:31 <novacrown> its over 1k
4674 2011-05-18 23:21:34 <nanotube> metonymous_: yes, that, and the fact that in those days .01 btc will = 1000 usd :)
4675 2011-05-18 23:21:43 <novacrown> well over 1k
4676 2011-05-18 23:21:45 <sipa> luke-jr:
4677 2011-05-18 23:21:46 <metonymous_> nanotube: lol, ta
4678 2011-05-18 23:21:46 <sipa> int nDepth = pcoin->GetDepthInMainChain();
4679 2011-05-18 23:21:46 <sipa> if (nDepth < (pcoin->IsFromMe() ? nConfMine : nConfTheirs))
4680 2011-05-18 23:21:48 <sipa> continue;
4681 2011-05-18 23:21:55 <metonymous_> ooh, c, scary
4682 2011-05-18 23:22:00 <metonymous_> c++?
4683 2011-05-18 23:22:00 <BlueMatt> novacrown: in that case, if its a buy, normal, if its a sell, darkpool
4684 2011-05-18 23:22:02 <metonymous_> still scary
4685 2011-05-18 23:22:03 <nanotube> BlueMatt: well, what i did before this is set up a symlink from ~/.bitcoin/testnet -> ~/.bitcoin-testnet/testnet
4686 2011-05-18 23:22:04 <jrmithdobbs> novacrown: you the asshat that's had 300+ for sale all day pushing value down? haha
4687 2011-05-18 23:22:09 <sipa> if (pcoin->IsCoinBase() && pcoin->GetBlocksToMaturity() > 0) continue;
4688 2011-05-18 23:22:10 <nanotube> BlueMatt: then used my datadir arg. it didn't help.
4689 2011-05-18 23:22:15 <novacrown> no haha
4690 2011-05-18 23:22:23 <BlueMatt> nanotube: hard?
4691 2011-05-18 23:22:37 <luke-jr> sipa: oh, that's an addâ¦
4692 2011-05-18 23:22:39 ezl has joined
4693 2011-05-18 23:22:46 RBecker has quit (Laptop!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|Quit: You care. You're there for me. You love me so much, and I never want to let it go. You are the one truly amazing person. MDR 3/6/11 <3)
4694 2011-05-18 23:22:52 <novacrown> thanks bluematt
4695 2011-05-18 23:22:53 <sipa> luke-jr: some per-tx code got moved to per-txout
4696 2011-05-18 23:22:55 <novacrown> interesting
4697 2011-05-18 23:23:10 <nanotube> BlueMatt: hell, i'll just make a copy, and see again.
4698 2011-05-18 23:23:17 <novacrown> how much volume do you need to move the market?
4699 2011-05-18 23:23:26 <BlueMatt> not much...
4700 2011-05-18 23:23:27 <sipa> wait, nvm
4701 2011-05-18 23:23:28 <nanotube> BlueMatt: fails
4702 2011-05-18 23:23:29 <novacrown> i think we have around 1100-1200
4703 2011-05-18 23:23:37 <BlueMatt> used to be ~1k, but now its a bit more
4704 2011-05-18 23:23:44 <BlueMatt> (hence the 1k dark limit)
4705 2011-05-18 23:23:44 <nanotube> BlueMatt: so it seems that just pointing datadir to somewhere else makes it fail to find and read the .conf
4706 2011-05-18 23:23:46 <jrmithdobbs> novacrown: like i said, someone trying to sell ~300btc has held the market down all day
4707 2011-05-18 23:24:04 <BlueMatt> nanotube: interesting, to github..file a bug
4708 2011-05-18 23:24:04 <metonymous_> 300 BTC at what?
4709 2011-05-18 23:24:09 <novacrown> do you mean 1k$ or 1kBTC?
4710 2011-05-18 23:24:09 <Raccoon> jrmithdobbs: how much are they trying to sell it for?
4711 2011-05-18 23:24:11 <nanotube> BlueMatt: righto :)
4712 2011-05-18 23:24:16 <ezl> anyone here use the mtgox api? i'm having trouble with it.
4713 2011-05-18 23:24:18 <nanotube> BlueMatt: to the gitmobile!
4714 2011-05-18 23:24:20 <novacrown> we have around 1100BTC
4715 2011-05-18 23:24:34 <lfm> novacrown: none
4716 2011-05-18 23:24:36 <ezl> its giving me "error": "Not logged in" even though i'm sending the correct credentials
4717 2011-05-18 23:24:45 <jrmithdobbs> Raccoon: 7.1 iirc think he finally pulled the bid
4718 2011-05-18 23:24:47 <Raccoon> ezl: API?
4719 2011-05-18 23:24:52 <lfm> novacrown: you can move the market on a rumor
4720 2011-05-18 23:25:01 <ezl> Raccoon: https://mtgox.com/support/tradeAPI
4721 2011-05-18 23:25:11 <Raccoon> ezl: are you using GET or POST?
4722 2011-05-18 23:25:14 <luke-jr> sipa: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/96f812b108acb8aeaa9ba1b007e1435fd24a0c9901a40a8a6d2d4f2983c830f6
4723 2011-05-18 23:25:30 <ezl> i tried both ways. the examples look like GET, but it specifies that you should us POST
4724 2011-05-18 23:25:35 <lfm> novacrown: 1100btc wont have much effect in gneral
4725 2011-05-18 23:25:38 <ezl> get failed credentials both ways
4726 2011-05-18 23:25:39 <metonymous_> curl -d user=USERNAME&password=PASSWORD https://...
4727 2011-05-18 23:25:43 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
4728 2011-05-18 23:25:43 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.5,"low":6.6,"vol":25196,"buy":6.6211,"sell":6.7896,"last":6.6209}}
4729 2011-05-18 23:25:49 <Raccoon> ezl: the examples are false. GET will not work, only POST.
4730 2011-05-18 23:26:04 <novacrown> if i sell these 1100 BTC right now what will the price drop to?
4731 2011-05-18 23:26:11 <Raccoon> ezl: you understand the differences in GET vs POST for HTTP headers?
4732 2011-05-18 23:26:11 <gjs278> zero
4733 2011-05-18 23:26:13 <gjs278> just do it
4734 2011-05-18 23:26:14 <metonymous_> what ever u're wiling ti buy for
4735 2011-05-18 23:26:23 <metonymous_> is there that many offers to buy?
4736 2011-05-18 23:26:33 <metonymous_> at gox
4737 2011-05-18 23:26:37 <ezl> Raccoon yes i think so. i'm using python urllib2
4738 2011-05-18 23:26:48 <metonymous_> ezl: try it bare with curl -d
4739 2011-05-18 23:26:48 <Raccoon> ezl: not familira with the library.
4740 2011-05-18 23:26:49 <jrmithdobbs> novacrown: lets find out
4741 2011-05-18 23:26:54 <ezl> definitely sending as post. if curl -d works it just means i'm an idiot...
4742 2011-05-18 23:27:05 <metonymous_> ezl: or the library is borked
4743 2011-05-18 23:27:18 <lfm> novacrown: on mtgox look at the "market dept" graph and data table (same page)
4744 2011-05-18 23:27:22 <Raccoon> ezl: I'm an idiot because I forgot Content-Length: header for the longest time
4745 2011-05-18 23:27:29 <lfm> dept -> depth
4746 2011-05-18 23:27:36 <metonymous_> depth -> debt
4747 2011-05-18 23:27:57 <sipa> luke-jr: ok, seems real enough
4748 2011-05-18 23:28:19 <ezl> oh dammit. i'm using username= and password= instead of user= and pass=
4749 2011-05-18 23:28:23 <Raccoon> ezl: you are connecting to port 443 SSL right?
4750 2011-05-18 23:28:30 <ezl> sending the wrong keys...
4751 2011-05-18 23:28:31 <Raccoon> ohlol
4752 2011-05-18 23:28:37 <lfm> ezl that'll do it
4753 2011-05-18 23:28:41 <metonymous_> ezl: that'll do it, gotta love the consistency betwewen clients
4754 2011-05-18 23:28:44 <luke-jr> sipa: I'm extremely busy tonight, so not sure when/if I can help
4755 2011-05-18 23:28:54 Cusipzzz has joined
4756 2011-05-18 23:28:55 <luke-jr> sipa: just wanted to sound the alarm before a final is released
4757 2011-05-18 23:28:57 <metonymous_> user/username pass/password, if i make a server they'll be interchangable
4758 2011-05-18 23:29:03 <metonymous_> pass/pwd/password
4759 2011-05-18 23:29:13 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
4760 2011-05-18 23:29:24 <metonymous_> rather ,if i make an api
4761 2011-05-18 23:29:34 <lfm> whoaryou/secret
4762 2011-05-18 23:29:38 <metonymous_> hey, i could make pushpool support that
4763 2011-05-18 23:29:43 <metonymous_> "/"?
4764 2011-05-18 23:29:53 <lfm> user/pwd
4765 2011-05-18 23:30:02 <metonymous_> forward slash makes me angsty
4766 2011-05-18 23:30:09 <luke-jr> metonymous_: support what?
4767 2011-05-18 23:30:25 <metonymous_> interchangable pass/pws/password user/username
4768 2011-05-18 23:30:33 <Raccoon> don't forget usr
4769 2011-05-18 23:30:40 <lfm> username/user/name
4770 2011-05-18 23:30:43 <darksk1ez> and just u and p
4771 2011-05-18 23:30:46 <darksk1ez> and secret and s
4772 2011-05-18 23:30:46 <metonymous_> ah yeh
4773 2011-05-18 23:30:47 <metonymous_> name
4774 2011-05-18 23:30:50 <metonymous_> login
4775 2011-05-18 23:30:52 <metonymous_> heh
4776 2011-05-18 23:30:55 <metonymous_> account
4777 2011-05-18 23:30:56 <metonymous_> id
4778 2011-05-18 23:31:02 <lfm> username/user/name/login/whoareyou
4779 2011-05-18 23:31:07 <metonymous_> hehehe
4780 2011-05-18 23:31:10 slush1 has joined
4781 2011-05-18 23:31:18 <metonymous_> other than the "/" first variable second variable would work
4782 2011-05-18 23:31:18 <darksk1ez> if i make an api, i'm just gonna make it error out without required params
4783 2011-05-18 23:31:23 <darksk1ez> with a helpful error
4784 2011-05-18 23:31:31 ntosme2 has joined
4785 2011-05-18 23:31:31 <metonymous_> helpful errors are good
4786 2011-05-18 23:31:40 <metonymous_> fail fast
4787 2011-05-18 23:31:44 <metonymous_> fail early
4788 2011-05-18 23:31:52 <darksk1ez> i fail everyday
4789 2011-05-18 23:31:52 <lemonade_> Tsunami selling pressure in BTC orderbook :: http://www.imghaven.com/images/12861/BTCUSDob20110518.png
4790 2011-05-18 23:31:59 euclid has joined
4791 2011-05-18 23:32:12 <metonymous_> lemonade_: how does that affect things?
4792 2011-05-18 23:32:20 <nanotube> BlueMatt: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/241
4793 2011-05-18 23:32:22 <sipa> luke-jr: as far as i can see, the algorithm still mimics the code as it was in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/a14bf1946dfade7c615cd41924c7cd41abdbc119/main.cpp (= after your patch)
4794 2011-05-18 23:32:32 <lemonade_> uhhh.. USD or BTC wise?
4795 2011-05-18 23:32:36 <metonymous_> BTC
4796 2011-05-18 23:32:49 <metonymous_> does that mean there is resistance to increases in price?
4797 2011-05-18 23:32:51 <lemonade_> BTC is the Tsunami
4798 2011-05-18 23:32:52 <Jere_Jones> ;;bc,stats
4799 2011-05-18 23:32:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125007 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 2000 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 652416.59356837
4800 2011-05-18 23:33:00 <lemonade_> buyers are the land
4801 2011-05-18 23:33:08 <BlueMatt> nanotube: thanks
4802 2011-05-18 23:33:08 pierre`_ has joined
4803 2011-05-18 23:33:09 <lemonade_> saturation
4804 2011-05-18 23:33:25 <novacrown> so is the tsunami doing to hit land soon and wipe everything out?
4805 2011-05-18 23:33:30 <metonymous_> weird how it's linear
4806 2011-05-18 23:33:33 <novacrown> is that what you're saying?
4807 2011-05-18 23:33:52 <lemonade_> see volume in real time: https://mtgox.com/trade/history
4808 2011-05-18 23:34:00 <lemonade_> look at ask vs bus
4809 2011-05-18 23:34:04 <lemonade_> buys*
4810 2011-05-18 23:34:06 <metonymous_> why would someone do a dark "buy"?
4811 2011-05-18 23:34:12 <ArtForz> metonymous_: because.
4812 2011-05-18 23:34:13 <luke-jr> sipa: I'd try bisecting
4813 2011-05-18 23:34:17 <metonymous_> ArtForz: lol
4814 2011-05-18 23:34:23 <luke-jr> metonymous_: that makes no sesne
4815 2011-05-18 23:34:24 <metonymous_> I'm still getting used to markets
4816 2011-05-18 23:34:25 <novacrown> for the lols
4817 2011-05-18 23:34:26 <lemonade_> so they _dont_ affect the market
4818 2011-05-18 23:34:28 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
4819 2011-05-18 23:34:31 <luke-jr> [19:24:15] <metonymous_> interchangable pass/pws/password user/username
4820 2011-05-18 23:34:39 <lfm> I dont see selling pressure
4821 2011-05-18 23:34:50 <ArtForz> I do 1kBTC+ dark buys pretty regularily
4822 2011-05-18 23:35:09 <metonymous_> luke-jr: for pushpool i agree, for an api, like mtgox, it could accept alternatives, intead of just not working
4823 2011-05-18 23:35:12 <sipa> luke-jr: you need a good testcase for that...
4824 2011-05-18 23:35:53 <ArtForz> yes, buys. at 20~30% lower than what I sold the btc for ;)
4825 2011-05-18 23:35:56 pnicholson has joined
4826 2011-05-18 23:36:03 <sipa> luke-jr: are you sure it was preventable, in this case, btw?
4827 2011-05-18 23:37:51 <nanotube> anyone familiar with this: ValueError: No JSON object could be decoded (when trying to do something via python jsonrpc?
4828 2011-05-18 23:37:56 <nanotube> what could be the cause?
4829 2011-05-18 23:37:59 <metonymous_> do bitcoin-otc orders have their lodged date somewhere?
4830 2011-05-18 23:38:10 <nanotube> metonymous_: yes, see the web view of the book
4831 2011-05-18 23:38:19 <metonymous_> http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?sortby=price&sortorder=ASC&type=SELL&nick=&thing=&otherthing=AUD&eitherthing=BTC¬es=
4832 2011-05-18 23:38:39 <metonymous_> laaaag
4833 2011-05-18 23:38:46 <novacrown> so a dark pool buy/sell means it doesn't show up on this chart? http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD_depth.html
4834 2011-05-18 23:38:56 <metonymous_> ahh
4835 2011-05-18 23:39:00 <metonymous_> thanks nanotube
4836 2011-05-18 23:39:02 <lemonade_> ';I dont see selling pressure' --- the frog never felt the water heating either!
4837 2011-05-18 23:39:17 <nanotube> metonymous_: :)
4838 2011-05-18 23:39:35 <lfm> lemonade_: .... or .... you are a rumor troll
4839 2011-05-18 23:39:35 <lemonade_> see yall at 5
4840 2011-05-18 23:39:38 <metonymous_> pooor froggy
4841 2011-05-18 23:39:49 lemonade_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4842 2011-05-18 23:39:57 <lfm> poor troll(y)
4843 2011-05-18 23:40:22 <luke-jr> sipa: no response to confirm
4844 2011-05-18 23:40:59 <lfm> he tell us to look at the charts and when the charts dont show us what he wants he tells us funny stories
4845 2011-05-18 23:41:18 <luke-jr> nanotube: bitcoinrpc is more efficient
4846 2011-05-18 23:41:35 <luke-jr> and uses a different JSON impl
4847 2011-05-18 23:41:38 <luke-jr> so migth be worth trying
4848 2011-05-18 23:41:45 <sipa> luke-jr: i see not enough reason to consider it a regression, currently - but i'll study the code further a bit
4849 2011-05-18 23:42:30 <phantomcircuit> Is there a maximum size for a network packet?
4850 2011-05-18 23:42:32 <luke-jr> sipa: bisecting shouldn't be too painful-- on testnet
4851 2011-05-18 23:42:40 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ofc
4852 2011-05-18 23:42:42 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4853 2011-05-18 23:42:51 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: usually 400 - 1500
4854 2011-05-18 23:42:53 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, you know what it is off hand?
4855 2011-05-18 23:43:01 <sipa> luke-jr: no need for a bisect, either spentpertxout broke it, or it didn't
4856 2011-05-18 23:43:10 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it varies by system and network connection
4857 2011-05-18 23:43:14 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i meant the p2p overlay's messaging construct
4858 2011-05-18 23:43:18 <luke-jr> sipa: well, there's 2 commits in there :p
4859 2011-05-18 23:43:25 <luke-jr> o
4860 2011-05-18 23:43:37 <phantomcircuit> 50KB
4861 2011-05-18 23:43:43 novacrown has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4862 2011-05-18 23:44:26 <guiklb> is there a way to make the miner process use only the idle cpu on linux ? (cpu miners)
4863 2011-05-18 23:44:33 <lfm> phantomcircuit: 1mb I think
4864 2011-05-18 23:44:36 <luke-jr> guiklb: CPU miners are worthless
4865 2011-05-18 23:44:53 <lfm> cpu miners are fun to play with
4866 2011-05-18 23:45:09 <lfm> you wont make money
4867 2011-05-18 23:45:20 <luke-jr> guiklb: but in general, renice it to max
4868 2011-05-18 23:45:28 <guiklb> despite they being worthless, is there a way/;
4869 2011-05-18 23:45:46 <guiklb> im starting the proccess with nice 19
4870 2011-05-18 23:45:49 <guiklb> is that all ?
4871 2011-05-18 23:45:50 <lfm> guiklb: "man nice"
4872 2011-05-18 23:45:55 <luke-jr> yes
4873 2011-05-18 23:46:00 <guiklb> okey thanks
4874 2011-05-18 23:46:06 <lfm> guiklb: is that not enuf?
4875 2011-05-18 23:46:27 <guiklb> should be
4876 2011-05-18 23:46:42 <lfm> guiklb: make sure you have enuf ram too
4877 2011-05-18 23:46:56 <guiklb> yeah i do =) thanks
4878 2011-05-18 23:48:08 <guiklb> im just having fun with my lab, running cpuminer on 16 core quad opteron 8356
4879 2011-05-18 23:48:33 <BlueMatt> well it was fun while it lasted, 10 mill$ 128-qbit qcomputers are out...bitcoin is dead
4880 2011-05-18 23:48:51 <lfm> guiklb: the -4way should work best I think
4881 2011-05-18 23:48:58 <guiklb> im running sse2_64
4882 2011-05-18 23:49:07 <BlueMatt> lfm: thats old sse2_64 is much better
4883 2011-05-18 23:49:08 <lfm> oh?
4884 2011-05-18 23:49:23 <BlueMatt> (sse2_64 ~= ufasoft algo)
4885 2011-05-18 23:49:24 <lfm> bluemattdepends on cpu still
4886 2011-05-18 23:49:34 ziggy has joined
4887 2011-05-18 23:49:35 <nanotube> luke-jr: you mean jgarzik's implementation?
4888 2011-05-18 23:49:36 Pilate has joined
4889 2011-05-18 23:50:01 <nanotube> luke-jr: python-bitcoinrpc on github?
4890 2011-05-18 23:50:07 <nanotube> if so, that's what i'm using already
4891 2011-05-18 23:50:11 <Incitatus> hey guys, I have a question, the difficulty increases every 2 weeks? is it after every 6*24*7*2 blocks... or every 2 weeks exactly? if it's every 2 weeks exactly or close to... what approx day/time is the next difficulty change?
4892 2011-05-18 23:50:13 <BlueMatt> lfm: that was completely sarcastic, I know its some media ploy and isnt actually a fully-functional 128-qbit qcomputer
4893 2011-05-18 23:50:22 <nanotube> Incitatus: it's blocks
4894 2011-05-18 23:50:25 <nanotube> 2016 blocks
4895 2011-05-18 23:50:34 <Incitatus> ah thank you nanotube
4896 2011-05-18 23:50:36 <nanotube> np
4897 2011-05-18 23:50:45 <luke-jr> nanotube: yes
4898 2011-05-18 23:50:55 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4899 2011-05-18 23:51:09 <nanotube> luke-jr: well, using it already. any other suggestions? :)
4900 2011-05-18 23:52:16 <guiklb> 4way is doing better.
4901 2011-05-18 23:52:26 <guiklb> almost equal to sse264
4902 2011-05-18 23:52:28 <luke-jr> nanotube: wireshark
4903 2011-05-18 23:52:34 <lfm> guiklb: oh? so I was right for once!
4904 2011-05-18 23:52:54 <nanotube> luke-jr: heh yea guess so....
4905 2011-05-18 23:52:55 <guiklb> I've tested 4way and sse2_64 on a xeon 5660 and sse2_64 was wayyy better
4906 2011-05-18 23:53:00 <guiklb> not sure why it's different on opteron
4907 2011-05-18 23:53:01 eoss has joined
4908 2011-05-18 23:53:15 <Incitatus> so 15 more blocks then the difficulty increases if my calculations are correct
4909 2011-05-18 23:53:19 <lfm> guiklb: ya AMD is often better on -4way
4910 2011-05-18 23:53:46 <jrmithdobbs> Incitatus: you're like an hour and a half late to the party it already changed?
4911 2011-05-18 23:54:04 theboos has joined
4912 2011-05-18 23:54:08 <Incitatus> haha, thanks jrmithdobbs
4913 2011-05-18 23:54:13 jmpespxoreax has quit (Changing host)
4914 2011-05-18 23:54:14 jmpespxoreax has joined
4915 2011-05-18 23:54:16 <lfm> guiklb: -4way works better on my Phenom too
4916 2011-05-18 23:54:51 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
4917 2011-05-18 23:54:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125008 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1999 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 21 hours, 13 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 405330.87266541
4918 2011-05-18 23:54:53 <guiklb> thanks for the tip
4919 2011-05-18 23:56:16 <lfm> cool 400k difficulty
4920 2011-05-18 23:56:42 <BlueMatt> sipa: can you reply-all to the email I just sent, tell jgarzik that build is botched...Im going to bed. Ill fix it in the morning
4921 2011-05-18 23:58:06 <bencoder> that difficulty increase is crazy
4922 2011-05-18 23:58:29 <ArtForz> not really
4923 2011-05-18 23:58:40 <ArtForz> I'd expect > 600k diff at these market prices
4924 2011-05-18 23:58:50 <lfm> bencoder: ya, you often get crazy difficulty estimates right after a diff change. the accuracy is way less
4925 2011-05-18 23:59:06 <ArtForz> lfm: in this case it's porobably not too far off though
4926 2011-05-18 23:59:11 <bencoder> ah it's just changed, didn't notice
4927 2011-05-18 23:59:13 <ArtForz> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png
4928 2011-05-18 23:59:15 <lfm> maybe ya
4929 2011-05-18 23:59:23 <ArtForz> notice network hashrate is already equiv. to ~350k diff ...
4930 2011-05-18 23:59:24 <guiklb> is there an easy way to sum how much hashes/s my pushpool is doing ?
4931 2011-05-18 23:59:57 <lfm> guiklb: just add them up?