1 2011-05-19 00:00:11 <guiklb> what do you mean
   2 2011-05-19 00:00:26 <lfm> get the khas/sec from each and addd them up
   3 2011-05-19 00:01:17 <forrestv> how can i ask for the highest block using the bitcoin p2p protocol?
   4 2011-05-19 00:01:23 djbaniel has joined
   5 2011-05-19 00:02:09 <forrestv> homg it's djb
   6 2011-05-19 00:02:15 GermainAdrian has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
   7 2011-05-19 00:02:24 <djbaniel> Any idea who doubled the hash rate?
   8 2011-05-19 00:02:32 <djbaniel> hi forrestv
   9 2011-05-19 00:02:43 <djbaniel> (i'm not sure who you are)
  10 2011-05-19 00:02:51 <guiklb> someone doubled the hash rate?
  11 2011-05-19 00:03:15 <djbaniel> 3.785 Thash/s
  12 2011-05-19 00:03:23 <djbaniel> currently
  13 2011-05-19 00:03:45 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  14 2011-05-19 00:03:46 <guiklb> ouch
  15 2011-05-19 00:03:59 <lfm> djbaniel: was another slashdot even this week for one thing
  16 2011-05-19 00:04:14 <lfm> event
  17 2011-05-19 00:04:28 lulzplzkthx has joined
  18 2011-05-19 00:04:30 <sipa> BlueMatt: no mail yet?
  19 2011-05-19 00:04:39 <lulzplzkthx> How is the difficulty changed?
  20 2011-05-19 00:04:53 <ArtForz> how is babby formed?
  21 2011-05-19 00:04:54 <lfm> ;;bc,difficulty
  22 2011-05-19 00:04:55 <gribble> Error: "bc,difficulty" is not a valid command.
  23 2011-05-19 00:04:59 <lfm> ;;bc,diff
  24 2011-05-19 00:05:00 <gribble> 244139.48158254
  25 2011-05-19 00:05:18 <midnightmagic> I get more like 2.4TH/s. where are you seeing 3.7?
  26 2011-05-19 00:05:28 <guiklb> what if the guy who did conficker starts using bitcoin
  27 2011-05-19 00:05:55 <JFK911> tcl btc
  28 2011-05-19 00:06:04 <djbaniel> midnightmagic: on bitcoincharts.com. Is that wrong?
  29 2011-05-19 00:06:07 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
  30 2011-05-19 00:06:07 <lfm> midnightmagic: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png
  31 2011-05-19 00:06:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125008 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1999 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 21 hours, 13 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 405330.87266541
  32 2011-05-19 00:06:29 <midnightmagic> lfm: yeah I'm there too. What math are you using?
  33 2011-05-19 00:06:36 <JFK911> wow deepbit almost 1Thash
  34 2011-05-19 00:06:45 <luke-jr> abandon ship
  35 2011-05-19 00:06:48 <luke-jr> go to Eligius :P
  36 2011-05-19 00:06:49 <midnightmagic> djbaniel: hrm. well it looks wrong by eyeballing speed-lin-2k
  37 2011-05-19 00:07:07 <lfm> midnightmagic: it was 300k difficlty I think he ment
  38 2011-05-19 00:07:34 <djbaniel> midnightmagic: where do you see 2.4?
  39 2011-05-19 00:07:44 <sipa> ArtForz: :)
  40 2011-05-19 00:07:44 <midnightmagic> lfm: no it looks like bitcoincharts is calculating current network hash by their 405k difficulty estimate.
  41 2011-05-19 00:07:58 stahi has joined
  42 2011-05-19 00:08:00 <sipa> lulzplzkthx: by recalculating it
  43 2011-05-19 00:08:05 <lfm> djbaniel: 2.4 thash/sec == 350k difficulty
  44 2011-05-19 00:08:10 <midnightmagic> djbaniel: I look at speed-lin, pick a line I like, eyeball about where difficulty looks, and then calculate it manually.
  45 2011-05-19 00:08:45 yebyen has joined
  46 2011-05-19 00:08:57 <lfm> just look at each scale on each side of that chart
  47 2011-05-19 00:08:58 ben36 has quit (Quit: ben36)
  48 2011-05-19 00:09:12 omglolbbq1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  49 2011-05-19 00:09:22 <midnightmagic> well yeah that's how I know I'm calculating it right, but I don't like drawing a line over to the left with my finger LOL
  50 2011-05-19 00:09:25 theorb has joined
  51 2011-05-19 00:09:39 <lfm> midnightmagic: ok, thats reasonable
  52 2011-05-19 00:10:23 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  53 2011-05-19 00:10:27 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
  54 2011-05-19 00:10:44 <xelister> I wish
  55 2011-05-19 00:10:46 <midnightmagic> sipa: any chance of convincing you to use svg output and rendering those graphs with inkscape or imagemagick or something? :-)
  56 2011-05-19 00:10:52 <xelister> Ubuntu would write a system that would boot itself
  57 2011-05-19 00:10:53 <lulzplzkthx> sipa: lol i got that, who recalculates?
  58 2011-05-19 00:11:04 <lfm> my chart that only uses daily summary is only up to 2thash/sec
  59 2011-05-19 00:11:27 <lfm> http://www3.telus.net/millerlf/hashes30.png
  60 2011-05-19 00:11:29 currentB has joined
  61 2011-05-19 00:12:09 <sipa> lulzplzkthx: everyone
  62 2011-05-19 00:12:31 <ezl> hey guys, still looking at the mtgox api. what is the point of the oid, type, and status parameters for the getOrders command?
  63 2011-05-19 00:12:31 <ezl> https://mtgox.com/support/tradeAPI
  64 2011-05-19 00:12:31 <midnightmagic> lulzplzkthx: everyone does at about the instant the 2016th block comes through
  65 2011-05-19 00:12:57 <ezl> nevr mind, disregard.  i just figured out those are outputs, not inputs.
  66 2011-05-19 00:12:58 <sipa> no, everyone does that for each and every block
  67 2011-05-19 00:13:01 <lfm> oidtype is normal/darkpool?
  68 2011-05-19 00:13:02 bombuzal has joined
  69 2011-05-19 00:13:05 <currentB> anyone know where I can get hitoric tick data?
  70 2011-05-19 00:13:10 <currentB> *historic
  71 2011-05-19 00:13:25 <sipa> midnightmagic, lulzplzkthx: and since the calculation is only based on data in the block chain, everyone gets the same result
  72 2011-05-19 00:13:31 <lulzplzkthx> midnightmagic: sipa and if someone tampers with that?
  73 2011-05-19 00:13:35 <midnightmagic> zactly.
  74 2011-05-19 00:13:38 <sipa> with the block chain?
  75 2011-05-19 00:13:47 <midnightmagic> lulzplzkthx: how do you mean tamper?
  76 2011-05-19 00:13:58 <JFK911> tamper with it and see what happens
  77 2011-05-19 00:14:03 <lulzplzkthx> what if i modified the client and told it to set the difficulty to 1
  78 2011-05-19 00:14:14 <JFK911> you'd get a block pretty quick i'd imagine!
  79 2011-05-19 00:14:14 <sipa> lulzplzkthx: then your blocks would be ignored by everyone else
  80 2011-05-19 00:14:27 <midnightmagic> lulzplzkthx: then your client would happily generate a bunch of blocks and nobody would ever accept them.
  81 2011-05-19 00:14:28 <sipa> since they don't match the difficulty they compute
  82 2011-05-19 00:14:51 theboos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  83 2011-05-19 00:14:52 <lulzplzkthx> Okay. :)
  84 2011-05-19 00:15:04 <sipa> midnightmagic: gnuplot support svg output, so i can easily add it, but not now
  85 2011-05-19 00:15:09 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: the net should reject your blocks if the nBits/tarhet/difficulty is wrong
  86 2011-05-19 00:15:18 <lulzplzkthx> It wouldn't be possible if the difficulty was off by just a tiny bit?
  87 2011-05-19 00:15:24 <lfm> tarhet -> target
  88 2011-05-19 00:15:27 <lulzplzkthx> e.g. 1123.9 instead of 1124?
  89 2011-05-19 00:15:37 <luke-jr> memcmp is memcmp
  90 2011-05-19 00:15:41 <lfm> set to 1.0 is not a tiny bit
  91 2011-05-19 00:15:52 <sipa> lulzplzkthx: it's all done in integer arithmetic
  92 2011-05-19 00:16:00 <sipa> lulzplzkthx: if it doesn't match *exactly*, it will be rejected
  93 2011-05-19 00:16:07 <lulzplzkthx> ;;bc,difficulty
  94 2011-05-19 00:16:07 <gribble> Error: "bc,difficulty" is not a valid command.
  95 2011-05-19 00:16:09 <lulzplzkthx> ;;difficulty
  96 2011-05-19 00:16:09 <gribble> Error: "difficulty" is not a valid command.
  97 2011-05-19 00:16:12 <sipa> ;;bc,diff
  98 2011-05-19 00:16:13 <gribble> 244139.48158254
  99 2011-05-19 00:16:13 <lulzplzkthx> halp?
 100 2011-05-19 00:16:20 <lulzplzkthx> Okay, so that's not an integer.
 101 2011-05-19 00:16:23 <sipa> and that is just the human-readable form
 102 2011-05-19 00:16:28 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: that's not stored anywhere
 103 2011-05-19 00:16:33 <sipa> internally, it's integers everywhere
 104 2011-05-19 00:16:38 <lulzplzkthx> Ah, okay.
 105 2011-05-19 00:16:44 <luke-jr> that's <real number> divided by <difficult 1 real number>
 106 2011-05-19 00:16:45 <sipa> in fact, it's wrong
 107 2011-05-19 00:16:56 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: diff is a ratio of two large (256 bit) integers
 108 2011-05-19 00:17:03 <lulzplzkthx> What if I solve a block on the 2016th before calculating the difficulty?
 109 2011-05-19 00:17:10 ziggy has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 110 2011-05-19 00:17:13 <lulzplzkthx> Discarded?
 111 2011-05-19 00:17:19 <lulzplzkthx> Or what if it's before anyone calculates it?
 112 2011-05-19 00:17:22 <xelister> ye
 113 2011-05-19 00:17:28 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: it's calculated instantly
 114 2011-05-19 00:17:39 <lulzplzkthx> luke-jr: Instantly is invalid. Very quickly, yes.
 115 2011-05-19 00:17:47 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: everyone calculates it at the same time
 116 2011-05-19 00:17:51 <xelister> just block #(2016*N+1) must have the needed diff, no matter at what point in time it is genrated/announced
 117 2011-05-19 00:17:59 <lulzplzkthx> Alright.
 118 2011-05-19 00:18:00 <sipa> lulzplzkthx: you don't get it - every client calculates it for *every* block, those they generate, and those they receive
 119 2011-05-19 00:18:10 <sipa> it doesn't matter when they do this calculation
 120 2011-05-19 00:18:11 <luke-jr> lulzplzkthx: it is impossible for a new block to be processed before it's calculated
 121 2011-05-19 00:18:29 <lulzplzkthx> Okay.
 122 2011-05-19 00:18:34 <sipa> it's just a formula that maps data in the block chain to a next difficulty, and that must match exactly
 123 2011-05-19 00:18:35 <lulzplzkthx> Well, with the current code luke-jr
 124 2011-05-19 00:18:36 <midnightmagic> sipa: okay..
 125 2011-05-19 00:18:47 <lulzplzkthx> But I understand sipa's and xelister's answer.
 126 2011-05-19 00:18:55 x942 has joined
 127 2011-05-19 00:18:59 Namegduf has joined
 128 2011-05-19 00:19:08 <luke-jr> sipa: makes you wonder tho, why is it in the block headers at all?>
 129 2011-05-19 00:19:09 AStove has quit ()
 130 2011-05-19 00:19:15 <lulzplzkthx> Do the changes base it off time generated / block or by hash power?
 131 2011-05-19 00:19:17 <lulzplzkthx> And how is hash power calculated?
 132 2011-05-19 00:19:22 <lulzplzkthx> Or is it an estimate?
 133 2011-05-19 00:19:22 <sipa> luke-jr: the difficulty?
 134 2011-05-19 00:19:22 <lfm> in fact though there are different numbers for difficulty given by various software. the bitcoin software will give you 244139.48158254
 135 2011-05-19 00:19:28 <lfm> ;;bc,diff
 136 2011-05-19 00:19:29 <gribble> 244139.48158254
 137 2011-05-19 00:19:37 <luke-jr> sipa: yeah
 138 2011-05-19 00:20:08 <lulzplzkthx> So what happens if a client glitches and sets the difficulty weird? Will it get fixed upon receiving a block?
 139 2011-05-19 00:20:20 <sipa> it does not "set" the difficulty
 140 2011-05-19 00:20:25 <sipa> it calculates it when necessary
 141 2011-05-19 00:20:32 <lulzplzkthx> sipa: And sets that in the client.
 142 2011-05-19 00:20:39 <lulzplzkthx> So the client knows what to generate / accept, right?
 143 2011-05-19 00:20:40 <sipa> where does it set it?
 144 2011-05-19 00:20:51 <lulzplzkthx> Don't ask me, but it must if it knows what to generate / accept at.
 145 2011-05-19 00:21:05 <sipa> it receives something, calculates if it's right
 146 2011-05-19 00:21:19 <lfm> lulzplzkthx: the calculation basiclly must be done exactly as the original bitcoin software does it. look at the code
 147 2011-05-19 00:21:26 <x942> What happens if I need to switch computers or this one dies? Do i lose my coins?
 148 2011-05-19 00:21:31 <yebyen> gribble, how many years will it take me to generate a block at 3100khash/s? (who knows the command, would you chime in
 149 2011-05-19 00:21:32 <lulzplzkthx> Alright. Thanks for the answers.
 150 2011-05-19 00:21:39 <lulzplzkthx> x942: Move your wallet.dat and you should be good.
 151 2011-05-19 00:21:45 <lulzplzkthx> If you lose wallet.dat, yes, you lose your coins.
 152 2011-05-19 00:21:59 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 3100
 153 2011-05-19 00:22:00 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 3100 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 10 years, 37 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 58 minutes, and 58 seconds
 154 2011-05-19 00:22:00 <lulzplzkthx> ~/.bitcoin/wallet.dat or %AppData%\Bitcoin\wallet.dat
 155 2011-05-19 00:22:03 <luke-jr> lfm: if another client had a slight bug that made it mostly compatible, and got > 51% marketshare, not true
 156 2011-05-19 00:22:07 <x942> gotcha thanks! I was worried about that. (Even though I have no coins yet)
 157 2011-05-19 00:22:15 <yebyen> sweeet...
 158 2011-05-19 00:22:23 <lulzplzkthx> x942: I recommend using a service like SpiderOak to backup your wallet.dat automatically.
 159 2011-05-19 00:22:28 <luke-jr> yebyen: that's really just under 20 years
 160 2011-05-19 00:22:33 <lfm> yebyen: note that is just an average estimate, you might find a block today or not for 10 years
 161 2011-05-19 00:22:33 <lulzplzkthx> Or emailing it to yourself regularly / backing up to a USB drive.
 162 2011-05-19 00:23:03 <lfm> yebyen: note that is just an average estimate, you might find a block today or not for 100 years
 163 2011-05-19 00:23:11 <x942> lulzplzthx thanks I will check it out. Maybe I will drop it in my dopbox inside a TrueCrypt container
 164 2011-05-19 00:23:14 <yebyen> it's also important that they will stop generating after 21 years, right?
 165 2011-05-19 00:23:32 <luke-jr> yebyen: what?
 166 2011-05-19 00:23:32 <lfm> yebyen: no they wont stop generating for 140 years
 167 2011-05-19 00:23:36 <yebyen> or is that 4*21 years
 168 2011-05-19 00:23:42 <yebyen> oh
 169 2011-05-19 00:24:01 <sipa> the reward halves every 210000 blocks, = +- 4 years
 170 2011-05-19 00:24:33 <luke-jr> who wants to calculate what hashrate growth would minimize the time to reward exhaustion? :P
 171 2011-05-19 00:24:36 <yebyen> well, at least it's not 160khash anymore
 172 2011-05-19 00:24:44 <lfm> ya integer half throw away the remainders
 173 2011-05-19 00:25:06 <yebyen> this new computer is tits
 174 2011-05-19 00:25:15 <luke-jr> yebyen: lol new?
 175 2011-05-19 00:25:21 <lfm> yebyen: is that good or bad?
 176 2011-05-19 00:25:24 <yebyen> $200, no video card
 177 2011-05-19 00:25:29 <luke-jr> yebyen: my new computer does 14 MH
 178 2011-05-19 00:25:35 <yebyen> it's way better than a netbook
 179 2011-05-19 00:25:41 <xelister> I wish ubuntu guys would know how to write a system that fucking boots itself after install.
 180 2011-05-19 00:25:47 <yebyen> luke-jr: how many gpu's?
 181 2011-05-19 00:25:51 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 182 2011-05-19 00:25:52 <luke-jr> yebyen: that's just CPU
 183 2011-05-19 00:26:10 <luke-jr> yebyen: the GPU does 298 MH
 184 2011-05-19 00:26:33 <xelister> luke-jr: got 4x5970. UJALY?
 185 2011-05-19 00:26:39 <yebyen> ;;bc,calc 312000
 186 2011-05-19 00:26:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 312000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 5 weeks, 3 days, 21 hours, 33 minutes, and 24 seconds
 187 2011-05-19 00:26:47 <lfm> I have gpu that does 1500khash/s
 188 2011-05-19 00:26:50 <yebyen> hm
 189 2011-05-19 00:26:56 <xelister> ;;tell luke-jr xelister has [access to] 4x5970. UJELY?
 190 2011-05-19 00:26:56 <gribble> Error: "access" is not a valid command.
 191 2011-05-19 00:27:04 <xelister> ;;tell luke-jr xelister has (access to) 4x5970. UJELY?
 192 2011-05-19 00:27:14 <xelister> it's PM? meh
 193 2011-05-19 00:27:29 <x942> I am generating  blocks with 3 of these http://www.intel.com/products/processor/corei7EE/index.htm
 194 2011-05-19 00:27:31 <x942> :)
 195 2011-05-19 00:27:33 <luke-jr> nanotube: can xelister be put on bot-ignore for abuse?
 196 2011-05-19 00:27:37 <sipa> x942: don't
 197 2011-05-19 00:27:54 <sipa> unless you don't pay power
 198 2011-05-19 00:28:13 <xelister> nanotube: can you make your bot whack luke-jr for being a melvin
 199 2011-05-19 00:28:14 <yebyen> $200 for the computer including case and ram and disk, is not bad...
 200 2011-05-19 00:28:16 <yebyen> with all new parts
 201 2011-05-19 00:28:22 <directhex> three i7s? wow, almost as good as a low-end radeon
 202 2011-05-19 00:28:33 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 203 2011-05-19 00:28:46 <x942> sipa true but I want to see how big of a difference it makes. I was using them to generate rainbow tables and crack hashes :)
 204 2011-05-19 00:28:51 <luke-jr> directhex: except it uses a lot more power
 205 2011-05-19 00:28:56 <sipa> x942: hash rate?
 206 2011-05-19 00:29:04 <luke-jr> yebyen: those arent new parts
 207 2011-05-19 00:29:19 <directhex> luke-jr: factoring in the whole system, yeah. those are, what, 130W chips?
 208 2011-05-19 00:29:23 <luke-jr> yebyen: they're maybe not-formerly-used obsolete parts
 209 2011-05-19 00:29:27 <lfm> luke-jr: he means never been used before
 210 2011-05-19 00:30:30 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 211 2011-05-19 00:30:41 <lfm> luke-jr:  and see what sort of system you can build for $200
 212 2011-05-19 00:31:13 Latregetic has left ()
 213 2011-05-19 00:31:15 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 214 2011-05-19 00:31:36 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 215 2011-05-19 00:31:43 <yebyen> luke-jr: athlon II, ok not new parts in the sense of best in class, but yeah, not formerly used
 216 2011-05-19 00:32:01 <yebyen> i had to buy this computer to put windows on it, i don't have anything else with virt extensions
 217 2011-05-19 00:32:18 <x942> sipa the tool I used to mesure it says: AES-256BIT 5610MB/S and SHA256 1560MB/s
 218 2011-05-19 00:32:53 <lfm> x942: those arnt really useful stats for bitcoin
 219 2011-05-19 00:33:30 <x942> sipa john the ripper can crack with 1500K+ per second :p but we will se how bitcoin does with this
 220 2011-05-19 00:34:22 <sipa> x942: that would mean +- 13.4Mhash/s for bitcoin
 221 2011-05-19 00:34:53 caedes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 222 2011-05-19 00:35:08 <luke-jr> LOL
 223 2011-05-19 00:35:27 x942 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 224 2011-05-19 00:35:38 <luke-jr> x942: my one i5 beats your three i7s
 225 2011-05-19 00:37:51 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc [bc,eligius]
 226 2011-05-19 00:37:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 50666297.5351 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 5 hours, 44 minutes, and 55 seconds
 227 2011-05-19 00:38:04 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
 228 2011-05-19 00:38:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125013 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1994 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 9 hours, 59 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 367714.80667207
 229 2011-05-19 00:38:34 <luke-jr> (%(
 230 2011-05-19 00:38:38 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 298000
 231 2011-05-19 00:38:39 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 298000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 1.22772791795 BTC per day and 0.0511553299147 BTC per hour.
 232 2011-05-19 00:41:19 scarz has joined
 233 2011-05-19 00:44:43 <JunK-Y> ;;bc,stats
 234 2011-05-19 00:44:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125013 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1994 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 14 hours, 58 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 367714.80667207
 235 2011-05-19 00:47:33 sacarlson has joined
 236 2011-05-19 00:48:51 caedes has joined
 237 2011-05-19 00:50:30 allied has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
 238 2011-05-19 00:50:43 allied has joined
 239 2011-05-19 00:53:16 davux has joined
 240 2011-05-19 00:53:27 theboos has joined
 241 2011-05-19 00:53:40 <davux> hi... I nede help about deepbit.net pool
 242 2011-05-19 00:53:46 <davux> need*
 243 2011-05-19 00:54:22 <davux> I'm mining at about 1.8 MH/s but https://deepbit.net/account doesn't show anything
 244 2011-05-19 00:54:30 <davux> keeps saying 0.00 MH/s
 245 2011-05-19 00:54:43 <Mookman288> yeah that happens for me too
 246 2011-05-19 00:54:46 <Mookman288> it's still recording your work
 247 2011-05-19 00:54:54 <Namegduf> Did your miner say it connected okay?
 248 2011-05-19 00:54:59 <davux> yes
 249 2011-05-19 00:55:09 <davux> [2011-05-18 19:45:14] Long-polling activated for http://deepbit.net:8332/listenChannel
 250 2011-05-19 00:55:10 <theboos> ;;bc,stats
 251 2011-05-19 00:55:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125015 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1992 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 19 hours, 10 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 359319.32299281
 252 2011-05-19 00:55:18 <davux> doesn't say anything else though
 253 2011-05-19 00:56:22 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 254 2011-05-19 00:56:39 <Namegduf> Mine seems to be giving a way more intermittent rate than the miner's own output claimed
 255 2011-05-19 00:56:54 <Namegduf> Which is kinda weird but *shrug*
 256 2011-05-19 01:00:28 <luke-jr> davux: Mookman288: don't use Deepbit, use Eligius! :P
 257 2011-05-19 01:00:45 <davux> luke-jr: why?
 258 2011-05-19 01:00:50 <luke-jr> less fees
 259 2011-05-19 01:00:52 <davux> I'm new at mining
 260 2011-05-19 01:01:03 <Mookman288> I'm not concerned so much with fees. Eligius doesn't offer the same type of statistics.
 261 2011-05-19 01:01:20 <Mookman288> Also, the minimum payout is not even remotely in my league.
 262 2011-05-19 01:01:23 <[Tycho]> davux, use deepbit.
 263 2011-05-19 01:01:25 <davux> what's that share thingy btw?
 264 2011-05-19 01:01:36 wolfspraul has joined
 265 2011-05-19 01:01:38 <davux> I'm totally new with this stuff
 266 2011-05-19 01:01:43 <Mookman288> deepbit makes some bank that's for sure
 267 2011-05-19 01:02:18 <[Tycho]> davux, is your worker name blue or red on account page ?
 268 2011-05-19 01:02:39 <davux> red
 269 2011-05-19 01:02:47 <[Tycho]> How long are you mining ?
 270 2011-05-19 01:02:57 <davux> not long, like 30 minutes
 271 2011-05-19 01:03:01 <davux> i'm just starting
 272 2011-05-19 01:03:04 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,calcd 1800 1
 273 2011-05-19 01:03:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1800 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 39 minutes and 46 seconds
 274 2011-05-19 01:03:11 <Mookman288> I've been mining 2 days straight and it says 0.00MH/s on the deepbit page.
 275 2011-05-19 01:03:25 <Namegduf> Mookman288: Have you gotten any balance?
 276 2011-05-19 01:03:27 <Namegduf> Or shares?
 277 2011-05-19 01:03:28 <Mookman288> Yes.
 278 2011-05-19 01:03:30 <Mookman288> Both.
 279 2011-05-19 01:03:34 <[Tycho]> You'll need about 40 minutes to find at least one share.
 280 2011-05-19 01:03:48 <[Tycho]> That's why you see "0" speed.
 281 2011-05-19 01:03:52 <Mookman288> Interesting, it just shot up to 14.20 MH/s and I am nowhere near that.
 282 2011-05-19 01:03:53 <davux> so one share = 1 block?
 283 2011-05-19 01:03:58 redMBA has joined
 284 2011-05-19 01:04:07 <luke-jr> Mookman288: that means they're using a 5 minute sample
 285 2011-05-19 01:04:14 <[Tycho]> Mookman288, set your averaging window to 30 mins.
 286 2011-05-19 01:04:41 <Mookman288> Now I suspect I wait thirty minutes.
 287 2011-05-19 01:04:56 <[Tycho]> Mookman288, what is your miner's speed ?
 288 2011-05-19 01:05:04 <Mookman288> 1.1MH/s average
 289 2011-05-19 01:05:15 <Mookman288> Right now, it's at 1.9MH/s I have no idea why.
 290 2011-05-19 01:05:16 <Namegduf> Ouch
 291 2011-05-19 01:05:26 <Namegduf> How much electricity is that using?
 292 2011-05-19 01:05:37 <Mookman288> It's negligible.
 293 2011-05-19 01:06:04 <davux> [Tycho]: I don't get the difference between a block and a share
 294 2011-05-19 01:06:20 <metonymous_> a share is a solve at lower difficulty than the block
 295 2011-05-19 01:06:30 <metonymous_> it *may* solve the block, but usually not
 296 2011-05-19 01:06:32 <metonymous_> afaik
 297 2011-05-19 01:06:36 <metonymous_> i may be wrong
 298 2011-05-19 01:06:39 <metonymous_> figuring it out
 299 2011-05-19 01:06:40 <sipa> you're right
 300 2011-05-19 01:06:41 <davux> oh
 301 2011-05-19 01:06:57 <sipa> share = an almost-block, which may not beat the real difficulty for being actually usable
 302 2011-05-19 01:07:00 <metonymous_> it' "proof of work" for the pool's sake
 303 2011-05-19 01:07:07 <davux> why calculate with difficulty = 1?
 304 2011-05-19 01:07:18 <metonymous_> difficulty MINUS 1
 305 2011-05-19 01:07:21 <metonymous_> afaik
 306 2011-05-19 01:07:22 <Mookman288> Oh right, it's at 1.9 because I'm using the computer at the moment.
 307 2011-05-19 01:07:25 <sipa> no, difficulty=1
 308 2011-05-19 01:07:27 <metonymous_> oh
 309 2011-05-19 01:07:30 ntosme2 has joined
 310 2011-05-19 01:07:38 <sipa> to have a key for distribution of the actual block's gains
 311 2011-05-19 01:07:38 <metonymous_> i must have misread the conf
 312 2011-05-19 01:08:03 <davux> why does deepbit's interface say 0.00 MH/s?
 313 2011-05-19 01:08:08 <sipa> if you found 5 shares, and i found 1 share, and one of your shares was a real block, i get 1/6 of the gain, you get 5/6
 314 2011-05-19 01:08:13 <metonymous_> we should make "shares" a currency
 315 2011-05-19 01:08:26 <sipa> why?
 316 2011-05-19 01:08:31 <[Tycho]> davux, because you haven't found any shares yet.
 317 2011-05-19 01:08:36 <metonymous_> for inner pool trading
 318 2011-05-19 01:08:51 <sipa> what for?
 319 2011-05-19 01:08:52 <metonymous_> if everyone is working out shares with difficulty 1
 320 2011-05-19 01:08:58 <davux> but it only says Average speed in last 7 minutes
 321 2011-05-19 01:09:01 <metonymous_> they'd be like a poor mans bitcoins
 322 2011-05-19 01:09:10 <sipa> they are not bitcoins
 323 2011-05-19 01:09:18 <davux> can't the pool know what's my actual speed?
 324 2011-05-19 01:09:28 <sipa> davux: no it can only see your solved shares
 325 2011-05-19 01:09:33 <davux> oh
 326 2011-05-19 01:09:34 <metonymous_> couldn't a share be worth 1/difficulty BTC?
 327 2011-05-19 01:09:36 <sipa> the rate of which is used to guess your speed
 328 2011-05-19 01:09:38 <metonymous_> at the time of generation?
 329 2011-05-19 01:09:41 <sipa> metonymous_: yes
 330 2011-05-19 01:09:46 <[Tycho]> davux, with default interface settings it calculates speed by watching at your number of submitted shares per 7 minutes. But with your speed you need about 40 minutes to find a single share.
 331 2011-05-19 01:10:02 <davux> oh ok
 332 2011-05-19 01:10:04 <metonymous_> a share, the solution, does it include "when" it was created?
 333 2011-05-19 01:10:10 <sipa> no
 334 2011-05-19 01:10:16 <metonymous_> there goes that idea
 335 2011-05-19 01:10:18 <sipa> oh wait
 336 2011-05-19 01:10:19 <sipa> yes
 337 2011-05-19 01:10:22 <sipa> yes it does
 338 2011-05-19 01:10:25 <metonymous_> hmm
 339 2011-05-19 01:10:27 <metonymous_> idea still alive
 340 2011-05-19 01:10:35 <davux> what's the current reward for 1 share?
 341 2011-05-19 01:10:40 <metonymous_> 1/difficulty
 342 2011-05-19 01:10:42 <metonymous_> :P
 343 2011-05-19 01:10:44 <metonymous_> - TAX
 344 2011-05-19 01:10:50 <sipa> ;;calc 50/[bc,diff]
 345 2011-05-19 01:10:51 <gribble> 50 / 244,139.48158254 = 0.000204800959
 346 2011-05-19 01:10:58 <davux> oh
 347 2011-05-19 01:11:00 <metonymous_> i'd personally like a share market
 348 2011-05-19 01:11:01 <metonymous_> lol
 349 2011-05-19 01:11:09 <metonymous_> how would i go about making it
 350 2011-05-19 01:11:09 <sipa> why not just use BTC?
 351 2011-05-19 01:11:18 <metonymous_> too sporadic
 352 2011-05-19 01:11:19 <sipa> what advantage does it have to trade shares?
 353 2011-05-19 01:11:24 <sipa> BTC is not sporadic
 354 2011-05-19 01:11:26 <sipa> blocks are
 355 2011-05-19 01:11:31 <metonymous_> yes
 356 2011-05-19 01:11:32 <metonymous_> i mean that
 357 2011-05-19 01:11:35 <sipa> you shouldn't rely on mining to acquire BTC
 358 2011-05-19 01:11:38 <metonymous_> shares have little variance
 359 2011-05-19 01:11:40 <metonymous_> no
 360 2011-05-19 01:11:44 <metonymous_> but if shares had value, directly
 361 2011-05-19 01:11:44 <sipa> they are more than money out of thin air
 362 2011-05-19 01:11:52 <sipa> but they don't
 363 2011-05-19 01:11:53 <metonymous_> then CPU miners would attract more people
 364 2011-05-19 01:11:59 <sipa> no they wouldn't
 365 2011-05-19 01:12:01 <metonymous_> what if i was to pay for shares
 366 2011-05-19 01:12:04 scarz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 367 2011-05-19 01:12:17 <sipa> every second they lose value
 368 2011-05-19 01:12:21 <davux> ok it's like 1 cent of mexican peso every 40 minutes haha
 369 2011-05-19 01:12:22 <davux> woot
 370 2011-05-19 01:12:31 <metonymous_> shares?
 371 2011-05-19 01:12:33 <metonymous_> how so
 372 2011-05-19 01:12:46 <metonymous_> the only problem would be knowing whethr or not a share was cashed in
 373 2011-05-19 01:12:48 <davux> what I can earn at 1.8MH/s
 374 2011-05-19 01:12:48 <sipa> if they're not submitted quick enough, they will not be accepted anymore
 375 2011-05-19 01:12:52 <metonymous_> stupid blockchain thing
 376 2011-05-19 01:13:01 <sipa> i don't see what problem you want to solve
 377 2011-05-19 01:13:03 <metonymous_> ok
 378 2011-05-19 01:13:06 <sipa> exchange your shares for BTC
 379 2011-05-19 01:13:10 <metonymous_> i just want to hypethesis this
 380 2011-05-19 01:13:13 <sipa> in the pool you're mining
 381 2011-05-19 01:13:19 <sipa> and trade the BTC
 382 2011-05-19 01:13:23 <sipa> that's what it's made for
 383 2011-05-19 01:13:25 <sipa> shares aren't
 384 2011-05-19 01:13:26 <metonymous_> what if i started a new one, called "bitshares"
 385 2011-05-19 01:13:31 <metonymous_> that was always difficulty 1
 386 2011-05-19 01:13:36 <davux> :D
 387 2011-05-19 01:13:37 <ArtForz> davux: ask gribble ;)
 388 2011-05-19 01:13:48 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 1800
 389 2011-05-19 01:13:49 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1800 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 0.00741580621583 BTC per day and 0.00030899192566 BTC per hour.
 390 2011-05-19 01:13:50 <metonymous_> ;;bitshares?
 391 2011-05-19 01:13:50 <gribble> Error: "bitshares?" is not a valid command.
 392 2011-05-19 01:14:03 <metonymous_> so there's a flaw?
 393 2011-05-19 01:14:05 <sipa> ^^ davus -> 0.0074 BTC per day
 394 2011-05-19 01:14:05 <metonymous_> hmm
 395 2011-05-19 01:14:09 <sipa> flaw?
 396 2011-05-19 01:14:19 <davux> ArtForz: it was not a question but the 2nd part of a sentence: it's like 1 cent of mexican peso every 40 minutes, what I can earn at 1.8 MH/s
 397 2011-05-19 01:14:22 <metonymous_> in bitshares, a btc alternative with set difficulty of 1
 398 2011-05-19 01:14:35 <sipa> ok...
 399 2011-05-19 01:14:45 <metonymous_> so there is no decimal place
 400 2011-05-19 01:14:53 <metonymous_> 1 bitshare is the minimum amount
 401 2011-05-19 01:14:53 <seasnake4> ;;bc,gen 1800000
 402 2011-05-19 01:14:55 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 7.41580621583 BTC per day and 0.30899192566 BTC per hour.
 403 2011-05-19 01:15:01 <sipa> you don't seem to realize that blocks and bitcoins are not the same thing
 404 2011-05-19 01:15:13 <metonymous_> a block is redeemed for 50 bitcoins
 405 2011-05-19 01:15:14 <sipa> and that the only way to get bitcoins is by finding blocks
 406 2011-05-19 01:15:20 <Namegduf> metonymous_: Why not just use decimal places?
 407 2011-05-19 01:15:21 <metonymous_> i'd change it
 408 2011-05-19 01:15:32 <metonymous_> Namegduf: numerous reasons, it has to move
 409 2011-05-19 01:15:41 <davux> ok, 3 pesos per week
 410 2011-05-19 01:15:44 <davux> haha
 411 2011-05-19 01:15:45 <metonymous_> u need t hcange GUI's
 412 2011-05-19 01:15:48 <metonymous_> 1, 1k, 2k, 3k
 413 2011-05-19 01:16:02 <metonymous_> 1M, 1G, 1T
 414 2011-05-19 01:16:18 <metonymous_> if you solve a "block" in bitshares, you get 1 share
 415 2011-05-19 01:16:19 <metonymous_> that's it
 416 2011-05-19 01:16:25 <metonymous_> a block, is one share
 417 2011-05-19 01:16:27 <ArtForz> 1P 1E 1Z 1Y
 418 2011-05-19 01:16:34 <jercos> 1LOL
 419 2011-05-19 01:16:37 <metonymous_> *worth*
 420 2011-05-19 01:16:48 <metonymous_> difficulty 1, 1 share, 1 block
 421 2011-05-19 01:16:56 <metonymous_> no fees
 422 2011-05-19 01:17:11 <Namegduf> Did you spend your bitcoins on drugs?
 423 2011-05-19 01:17:19 <metonymous_> automatic chain prunage
 424 2011-05-19 01:17:22 <metonymous_> at every node
 425 2011-05-19 01:17:25 <metonymous_> every transaction
 426 2011-05-19 01:17:32 <metonymous_> preventing chain size overload
 427 2011-05-19 01:17:39 <metonymous_> merkel chain stores "proof"
 428 2011-05-19 01:17:48 <metonymous_> well.. i like my idea
 429 2011-05-19 01:17:57 <metonymous_> time to brush up on my c++
 430 2011-05-19 01:18:02 <metonymous_> actually
 431 2011-05-19 01:18:09 <metonymous_> you could do what bitcoin does
 432 2011-05-19 01:18:16 <metonymous_> and 1/2 the rate every so often
 433 2011-05-19 01:18:25 <metonymous_> by doubling the difficulty at that date
 434 2011-05-19 01:18:39 <metonymous_> dificulty = 2 when 1 block = 25
 435 2011-05-19 01:19:01 <metonymous_> sipa!!! I need your counterpoint :(
 436 2011-05-19 01:19:35 <metonymous_> well, i'm going to see if i can implement it
 437 2011-05-19 01:19:53 <metonymous_> does anyone know of any flaws in my current logic yet?
 438 2011-05-19 01:20:06 <metonymous_> put it this way
 439 2011-05-19 01:20:10 <Namegduf> It's not logic.
 440 2011-05-19 01:20:13 <metonymous_> ?
 441 2011-05-19 01:20:17 <metonymous_> how not?
 442 2011-05-19 01:20:22 <Namegduf> There's nothing you're trying to accomplish and arguing how you do accomplish
 443 2011-05-19 01:20:30 <Namegduf> You're just coming up with a list of changes for no reason
 444 2011-05-19 01:20:34 <metonymous_> no
 445 2011-05-19 01:20:36 <metonymous_> there is reason
 446 2011-05-19 01:20:41 <metonymous_> the biggest is psychological
 447 2011-05-19 01:20:43 <Namegduf> Well you omitted it
 448 2011-05-19 01:20:56 <metonymous_> whole numbers are better for brains
 449 2011-05-19 01:21:09 <sipa> metonymous_: you understand why the difficulty exists in bitcoin?
 450 2011-05-19 01:21:12 <metonymous_> places like bitmunchies are already strugglingwith the 0.00 gui
 451 2011-05-19 01:21:16 <sipa> before you try to change it?
 452 2011-05-19 01:21:29 <metonymous_> sipa: to make a constant amount of coins produced per time period?
 453 2011-05-19 01:21:34 <sipa> no
 454 2011-05-19 01:21:41 <metonymous_> then why?
 455 2011-05-19 01:21:56 <sipa> it exists to have a block generation rate of 1 per 10 minutes
 456 2011-05-19 01:22:06 <lfm> metonymous_: you realize the difficulty is adjusted specificlly so we tend to get 6 blocks per hour?
 457 2011-05-19 01:22:07 <metonymous_> how is that different to wat i said?
 458 2011-05-19 01:22:12 <ArtForz> because.
 459 2011-05-19 01:22:14 <sipa> because blocks are not bitcoins
 460 2011-05-19 01:22:24 <metonymous_> blocks are worth bitcoins
 461 2011-05-19 01:22:28 <sipa> yes
 462 2011-05-19 01:22:30 <metonymous_> but why fixed rate?
 463 2011-05-19 01:22:33 <metonymous_> maybe i should read the paper...
 464 2011-05-19 01:22:37 <Namegduf> If coin generation rate exceeds the increase in demand
 465 2011-05-19 01:22:43 <sipa> mo
 466 2011-05-19 01:22:44 <sipa> no
 467 2011-05-19 01:22:44 <metonymous_> deflation?
 468 2011-05-19 01:22:46 <Namegduf> Then inflation happens
 469 2011-05-19 01:22:49 <lfm> its not fixed. it gets cut in half every 4 years
 470 2011-05-19 01:22:50 <metonymous_> inflation...
 471 2011-05-19 01:22:58 <sipa> metonymous_: if the block generation rate would become too high, you get a lot of collisions
 472 2011-05-19 01:23:01 <Namegduf> Fairly drastic inflation, potentially
 473 2011-05-19 01:23:08 <sipa> the network couldn't work with 10 blocks found per second
 474 2011-05-19 01:23:13 <metonymous_> aah, collisions are a good point
 475 2011-05-19 01:23:22 <sacarlson> sipa what would require changing to get block generation every 2 minits?
 476 2011-05-19 01:23:28 <sipa> that's the only reason they exist
 477 2011-05-19 01:23:29 <ArtForz> see "testnet when someone throws a few Ghps at it"
 478 2011-05-19 01:23:40 <metonymous_> what happens?
 479 2011-05-19 01:23:43 <lfm> sacarlson: it would need a new internet
 480 2011-05-19 01:23:46 <metonymous_> does it just grind to a halt?
 481 2011-05-19 01:23:59 <metonymous_> so it could work on a lan? or would CPU usage just skyrocket too
 482 2011-05-19 01:24:01 <sipa> at the current hash speed, we'd have a block every 2ms, if difficulty = 1
 483 2011-05-19 01:24:09 <metonymous_> hell yeah!
 484 2011-05-19 01:24:22 <sacarlson> lfm: why too much trafic?
 485 2011-05-19 01:24:29 <metonymous_> so, would collisions be the implication? primarily? and that the network couldn't handle that?
 486 2011-05-19 01:24:30 <lfm> ya
 487 2011-05-19 01:24:43 <sipa> since the propagation rate through the network is multiple seconds, that would mean a waste of like 99% of hash power
 488 2011-05-19 01:24:56 <sacarlson> lfm only on a big network but a small one maybe it could still work
 489 2011-05-19 01:24:58 <sipa> actually, 99.99%
 490 2011-05-19 01:25:03 <metonymous_> hmmmmm
 491 2011-05-19 01:25:06 <sipa> making an attack 10000 times easiee
 492 2011-05-19 01:25:08 <sipa> r
 493 2011-05-19 01:25:11 * ArtForz hands sip a few extra 9s for good measure
 494 2011-05-19 01:25:11 <lfm> sacarlson: but we need it to work on big net
 495 2011-05-19 01:25:25 <sacarlson> lfm: or many small ones
 496 2011-05-19 01:25:30 <lfm> no
 497 2011-05-19 01:25:32 <metonymous_> do collisions really occur that often?
 498 2011-05-19 01:25:40 <metonymous_> or, rather, at 1 every 2ms, would they?
 499 2011-05-19 01:25:46 <ArtForz> yes
 500 2011-05-19 01:25:55 <metonymous_> come on brain, keep up
 501 2011-05-19 01:25:55 <sipa> if there are 500 blocks generated every second
 502 2011-05-19 01:26:01 <sipa> and they need one second to reach you
 503 2011-05-19 01:26:01 <metonymous_> yeh
 504 2011-05-19 01:26:03 <ArtForz> unless you magically got network latency to < 0.01ms or so
 505 2011-05-19 01:26:19 <sipa> you'd be spending working on the wrong block for 99.8% of the time
 506 2011-05-19 01:26:38 <metonymous_> the block is dependent on the last "transaction" or something right? or is it the last "block" generated?
 507 2011-05-19 01:26:45 <sipa> block
 508 2011-05-19 01:26:54 <sipa> blocks order transactions, and refer to the previous block
 509 2011-05-19 01:27:01 <sipa> that way, they form a chain
 510 2011-05-19 01:27:06 <metonymous_> thankyou so far for helping me fix my bitcoin brain
 511 2011-05-19 01:27:15 <metonymous_> it's much appreciated
 512 2011-05-19 01:27:18 <lfm> must refer to prev block, they can be updated for every txn
 513 2011-05-19 01:27:18 <sipa> yw
 514 2011-05-19 01:27:19 <ArtForz> it's not a truck, it's a series of blocks!
 515 2011-05-19 01:27:25 <metonymous_> throw me an address
 516 2011-05-19 01:27:37 <sipa> if you really need one, you can find it
 517 2011-05-19 01:27:38 <lfm> its not a series of tubes
 518 2011-05-19 01:27:51 <metonymous_> grrr
 519 2011-05-19 01:27:56 <metonymous_> make me work to give gratitude
 520 2011-05-19 01:28:00 <lfm> if you make them they will come
 521 2011-05-19 01:28:01 <metonymous_> how non gracious
 522 2011-05-19 01:28:12 <metonymous_> i'd like to make the bitshares app anyway
 523 2011-05-19 01:28:19 <metonymous_> if it scales as badly as u say
 524 2011-05-19 01:28:23 <metonymous_> it'd show up very soon
 525 2011-05-19 01:28:29 <sipa> it won't scale badly
 526 2011-05-19 01:28:32 <metonymous_> even if just as an experiment
 527 2011-05-19 01:28:34 <sipa> it won't be used :)
 528 2011-05-19 01:28:36 <davux> if anyone wants to give any positive feedback: http://bitcoinfeedback.com/viewuser.php?id=82
 529 2011-05-19 01:28:44 <metonymous_> iv'e got 10Gh/s to play with
 530 2011-05-19 01:28:50 <metonymous_> it's enough to see if it scales
 531 2011-05-19 01:28:51 <lfm> metonymous_: make a pool where difficulty is 0.0002 and see if you can make that pool work
 532 2011-05-19 01:28:59 <sipa> 10 GHash/s? :o
 533 2011-05-19 01:29:03 <metonymous_> u can have less than 1 dificulty?
 534 2011-05-19 01:29:05 <sipa> yes
 535 2011-05-19 01:29:10 <lfm> metonymous_: sure
 536 2011-05-19 01:29:10 <ArtForz> yep
 537 2011-05-19 01:29:13 <metonymous_> i will try that
 538 2011-05-19 01:29:20 <sipa> though many miners only work at diff=1 or higher
 539 2011-05-19 01:29:29 <lfm> f them
 540 2011-05-19 01:29:33 <metonymous_> minerd and rpcminer?
 541 2011-05-19 01:29:43 <sipa> not sure about those
 542 2011-05-19 01:29:57 <sipa> but poclbm, phoenix, diablo, ... all do
 543 2011-05-19 01:30:04 <lfm> its an easy fix if you need diff < 1
 544 2011-05-19 01:30:05 <guiklb> lfm how can i set the pool's difficulty ?
 545 2011-05-19 01:30:09 <metonymous_> all the python ones
 546 2011-05-19 01:30:13 <metonymous_> it's in the pushpool conf
 547 2011-05-19 01:30:18 <metonymous_> i know that's what i'll do to test it
 548 2011-05-19 01:30:22 <metonymous_> server.json
 549 2011-05-19 01:30:25 <metonymous_> right at the very botton
 550 2011-05-19 01:30:31 <sipa> a pool isn't a problem
 551 2011-05-19 01:30:34 <lfm> guiklb: its the target value you send out in the getwork?
 552 2011-05-19 01:30:44 <sipa> the problem is network delay
 553 2011-05-19 01:30:56 <sipa> that needs to be a lot smaller than average block generation rate
 554 2011-05-19 01:31:14 <metonymous_> i never thought of it that way, that's a very good explanation
 555 2011-05-19 01:31:35 <metonymous_> there's only one "current block" isn't there
 556 2011-05-19 01:31:48 mesees has joined
 557 2011-05-19 01:31:50 <sipa> actually, the point is you don't know
 558 2011-05-19 01:31:54 <lfm> metonymous_: except when there is collisions
 559 2011-05-19 01:32:00 <sipa> from your own point of view, there is always one best one
 560 2011-05-19 01:32:10 <metonymous_> collisions are solved by network majority rule?
 561 2011-05-19 01:32:13 <sipa> and possibly other contenders
 562 2011-05-19 01:32:15 <sipa> no
 563 2011-05-19 01:32:21 <sipa> by which chain gets extended first
 564 2011-05-19 01:32:28 <metonymous_> by the netx block?
 565 2011-05-19 01:32:32 <metonymous_> is that why there are orphans?
 566 2011-05-19 01:32:36 <sipa> yes
 567 2011-05-19 01:32:41 <lfm> metonymous_: yes, each node picks a current block and assumes its right till it finds out different
 568 2011-05-19 01:32:57 <metonymous_> and transactions in that block, aren't valid, until there is another block after it?
 569 2011-05-19 01:33:07 <lfm> ya orphans choose the wrong block
 570 2011-05-19 01:33:25 <ArtForz> pead the raper yet?
 571 2011-05-19 01:33:28 <metonymous_> i've never seen an orphan block yeet
 572 2011-05-19 01:33:35 <metonymous_> ArtForz: no.... really really thinking i should
 573 2011-05-19 01:33:43 <lfm> metonymous_: txn in the wrong block they have to start over and try and get into a good block
 574 2011-05-19 01:33:43 <metonymous_> I read the abstract, i think
 575 2011-05-19 01:33:47 <metonymous_> but taht waas a long time ago
 576 2011-05-19 01:33:59 <sipa> metonymous_: you should
 577 2011-05-19 01:34:16 <metonymous_> have we ever got to a point where two competing split chains both get extended?
 578 2011-05-19 01:34:26 <metonymous_> sipa: i will read it
 579 2011-05-19 01:34:34 <lfm> metonymous_: some txn will be in both
 580 2011-05-19 01:34:35 <sipa> sure
 581 2011-05-19 01:34:40 <ArtForz> yep
 582 2011-05-19 01:34:46 <sipa> splits occur from time to time
 583 2011-05-19 01:34:49 <sipa> though only small ones
 584 2011-05-19 01:35:08 <sipa> there's never been one longer than 1 block (except if you count the bugfix-revert)
 585 2011-05-19 01:35:23 <lfm> some splits you migt never even see on your node, they are decided on another part of the net
 586 2011-05-19 01:35:28 <metonymous_> so a client will only look "up" from the current 'best block' for collisions, when seeting if to refuse a transaction, i gather
 587 2011-05-19 01:35:36 <metonymous_> ah
 588 2011-05-19 01:36:40 <metonymous_> sipa, waht did u use to hash ur name into ur account? just write urself a script?
 589 2011-05-19 01:36:41 <lfm> metonymous_: there is always one single "block chain" assumed to be valid till it isnt and then there is another valid "block chain"
 590 2011-05-19 01:36:58 <metonymous_> lfm,aaaha
 591 2011-05-19 01:38:52 <sipa> metonymous_: search for 'vanity patch'
 592 2011-05-19 01:39:14 <metonymous_> googles?
 593 2011-05-19 01:39:17 <sipa> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1387.0
 594 2011-05-19 01:39:20 <ArtForz> sipa: really inefficient though
 595 2011-05-19 01:39:20 <sipa> no, forum
 596 2011-05-19 01:39:25 <metonymous_> ta
 597 2011-05-19 01:39:33 <metonymous_> oooh!
 598 2011-05-19 01:39:39 <metonymous_> LOL i was looking for taht earlier today!
 599 2011-05-19 01:39:47 <metonymous_> was gonna python and rpc it, but it was gonna be soooo slow
 600 2011-05-19 01:39:49 <metonymous_> :D
 601 2011-05-19 01:39:56 <sipa> ArtForz: looking for a 4-character string was easy enough not to bother optimizing it
 602 2011-05-19 01:40:11 <ArtForz> well, you also got a really short nick
 603 2011-05-19 01:40:28 <metonymous_> is gavin a core dev?
 604 2011-05-19 01:40:36 <sipa> lead dev
 605 2011-05-19 01:40:45 <metonymous_> cool
 606 2011-05-19 01:41:01 <ArtForz> yes, he developed lead
 607 2011-05-19 01:41:11 <metonymous_> i'd be willing to join core-dev if it paid something... :(
 608 2011-05-19 01:41:14 <ArtForz> next up, developing tin
 609 2011-05-19 01:41:21 <metonymous_> tin?
 610 2011-05-19 01:41:56 <sipa> if you invoke alchemy in your project you can skip that, and go right from being lead dev to gold dev
 611 2011-05-19 01:41:59 <ArtForz> well, then only someone needs to develop copper and we can make nice PbSnCu alloys ;)
 612 2011-05-19 01:42:15 <metonymous_> XD
 613 2011-05-19 01:42:28 <sipa> metonymous_: it doesn't pay, by the way :)
 614 2011-05-19 01:42:33 <metonymous_> yeh\
 615 2011-05-19 01:42:38 <metonymous_> i gather
 616 2011-05-19 01:42:48 <metonymous_> there are so many btc related endeavers that do pay
 617 2011-05-19 01:43:05 <ArtForz> yeah, stupid RoHS totally killed the lead market *ducks*
 618 2011-05-19 01:43:07 <metonymous_> that it's hard to work on it 'cept where ur other business would benefit
 619 2011-05-19 01:43:27 <metonymous_> ArtForz: dense humour
 620 2011-05-19 01:43:40 rhett_ has joined
 621 2011-05-19 01:43:56 <ArtForz> yeah, heavy stuff.
 622 2011-05-19 01:44:04 <rhett_> I'm looking at the satoshi whitepaper.  I don't understand the last part
 623 2011-05-19 01:44:23 <erbs> which part bro
 624 2011-05-19 01:44:33 <brocktice> rhett_: which bit is that?
 625 2011-05-19 01:44:35 <lfm> PbSnCuAu alloy?
 626 2011-05-19 01:44:43 <rhett_> are they saying that if you have 30% of the computing power, there is a 17% chance that you can make up a 5 block lead ?
 627 2011-05-19 01:44:58 <lfm> rhett_: which last part? about what?
 628 2011-05-19 01:45:05 <ArtForz> lfm: fuck Au, gimme Ag
 629 2011-05-19 01:45:08 <rhett_> why would you ever wait more than 1 block before trying to change it?
 630 2011-05-19 01:45:18 <metonymous_> i like N
 631 2011-05-19 01:45:25 <metonymous_> N gives me happiness
 632 2011-05-19 01:45:26 * sipa wants At
 633 2011-05-19 01:45:29 <rhett_> chapter 11, calculations.
 634 2011-05-19 01:46:01 <rhett_> An attacker trying to double spend money doesn't really need 51% of the network cpu.  There is a good chance he might change it with 20% of the cpu, for instance
 635 2011-05-19 01:46:02 <lfm> rhett_: your double spend is in that block?
 636 2011-05-19 01:46:35 <brocktice> redMBA: oh I think I skipped over that bit
 637 2011-05-19 01:46:38 * [Tycho] never tried lead-free alloys, but heard bad things about it
 638 2011-05-19 01:46:39 <brocktice> err, sorry rhett_
 639 2011-05-19 01:47:25 <lfm> rhett_: well there is a chance of a finite advantage but eventually he gets caught out. perhaps why coinbase btc cant be spent for 120 blocks
 640 2011-05-19 01:47:30 <rhett_> My understanding is that he lets the block go through so someone verifies his transaction, and then he tries to catch up and solve more blocks fast, chaging history
 641 2011-05-19 01:47:40 <ArtForz> metonymous_: N? I'd like it better with more N and a O
 642 2011-05-19 01:48:07 <rhett_> yeah, but everyone can just make bitcoin clients to always try to get their money back
 643 2011-05-19 01:48:18 <rhett_> just try to send it to an anonymous id each time
 644 2011-05-19 01:48:20 <rhett_> why not?
 645 2011-05-19 01:48:25 <metonymous_> ArtForz: wholeheartedly agreed!
 646 2011-05-19 01:48:27 <lfm> rhett_: he only pull it off 17% of the time means he gets caught out the other times
 647 2011-05-19 01:48:46 <metonymous_> ArtForz: never was good at chemistry
 648 2011-05-19 01:48:46 <rhett_> so what if you get caught?
 649 2011-05-19 01:48:51 <rhett_> there is no feedback system
 650 2011-05-19 01:48:53 e0s_ has joined
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 652 2011-05-19 01:49:02 <lfm> rhett_: go to jail for double spending
 653 2011-05-19 01:49:02 <rhett_> every time it can be sent to a new address
 654 2011-05-19 01:49:08 <gmaxwell> rhett_: it depends on how long the rx side waits. if he waits 10 blocks then the person has to win a fairly long race.
 655 2011-05-19 01:49:19 <rhett_> bitcoin jail?
 656 2011-05-19 01:49:26 <rhett_> why would he wait any longer than 1 block ever?
 657 2011-05-19 01:49:38 <gmaxwell> rhett_: transactions don't exist in a vacuum.
 658 2011-05-19 01:49:50 <gmaxwell> rhett_: because you'd do that for a high value transaction.
 659 2011-05-19 01:50:00 <gmaxwell> The client tells you how burried in the chain a TX is.
 660 2011-05-19 01:50:06 <rhett_> gmaxwell, why wouldn't you try to get your money back every transactoin?
 661 2011-05-19 01:50:18 <sipa> rhett_: because just reverting a tx is pointless
 662 2011-05-19 01:50:19 <lfm> the half of the txn which is not accepted will be dissapointed to find he did not get paid and will ask that you be sent to debtteors prison
 663 2011-05-19 01:50:23 <gmaxwell> rhett_: because you would eventually get caught and go to jail, for one.
 664 2011-05-19 01:50:24 <sipa> you want to have gotten something in return
 665 2011-05-19 01:50:58 <sipa> from someone
 666 2011-05-19 01:51:01 <rhett_> i thought the whole point of bitcoin is it's anonymous.  Who is going to track you?
 667 2011-05-19 01:51:14 <sipa> rhett_: you don't get it
 668 2011-05-19 01:51:18 <sipa> i have 100 BTC
 669 2011-05-19 01:51:22 <sipa> i want to spend it twice
 670 2011-05-19 01:51:25 <lfm> rhett_: actually you are prolly right, no one would notice the failures
 671 2011-05-19 01:51:30 <sipa> if i can make a 1-block split
 672 2011-05-19 01:51:31 <gmaxwell> "Hello. This person had an agreement to exchange goods with me, he did some complicated technical stunt in order to renig and defraud me. Please press criminal charges, oh and after that I'm taking him to civil court"
 673 2011-05-19 01:51:43 <sipa> i will spend that 100 BTC on a computer
 674 2011-05-19 01:51:45 <gmaxwell> rhett_: it's not anonymous if you actually use it.
 675 2011-05-19 01:51:47 <sipa> get the computer
 676 2011-05-19 01:51:50 <sipa> and *then* revert it
 677 2011-05-19 01:52:25 <lfm> rhett_: it is annonymous in you cant really be sure who paid you, just there is often a prime suspect
 678 2011-05-19 01:52:26 <sipa> but obviously the seller is going to wait a few blocks untill he's sure the tx is buried deep enough
 679 2011-05-19 01:52:45 <sipa> so you'll need to make a split of a few blocks long at least
 680 2011-05-19 01:53:13 <gmaxwell> lfm: such as the person you sent the goods to. And the difficulty in tracking someone down should be a factor in how long you wait.
 681 2011-05-19 01:53:30 <jrmithdobbs> rhett_: bitcoin is not anonymous
 682 2011-05-19 01:53:32 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
 683 2011-05-19 01:53:51 <Mookman288> [Tycho]: The 30 minute average speed did not fix the 0.00MH/s dealie. I suspect it's because I'm not generating enough.
 684 2011-05-19 01:53:55 <jrmithdobbs> rhett_: it's pseudo-anonymous, all txns can be traced they're just hard(er than normal) to associate with physical identities
 685 2011-05-19 01:54:08 <gmaxwell> E.g. if it's a friend and you know where he lives, you don't even wait for a single block.  If it's some weird people from judgementproofastan asking you to dropship to an empty field, you wait 100 blocks.
 686 2011-05-19 01:54:25 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: 200
 687 2011-05-19 01:54:28 <jrmithdobbs> fuck those guys
 688 2011-05-19 01:54:30 <jrmithdobbs> haha
 689 2011-05-19 01:54:33 <metonymous_> 2000, difficulty hike
 690 2011-05-19 01:54:48 <gmaxwell> In the future someone will very likely offer a transaction insurance service where you send them the TX and they tell you if they're willing to insure it against reversals (for a small fee)
 691 2011-05-19 01:54:50 <rhett_> I feel like bitcoin demonstrated a lot of amazing things, but there are some flaws that could make the system work better
 692 2011-05-19 01:55:04 <jrmithdobbs> rhett_: what flaws
 693 2011-05-19 01:55:04 <gmaxwell> And they make that decision based on contracts with miners and excellent network visibility.
 694 2011-05-19 01:55:14 <rhett_> Does satoshi what to change anything?
 695 2011-05-19 01:56:13 <jrmithdobbs> rhett_: satoshi doesn't care
 696 2011-05-19 01:56:20 <jrmithdobbs> he's out
 697 2011-05-19 01:57:16 <rhett_> Well, for my personal tastes, I feel like the mining distribution was done in a way to de-incentivize tem sticking around.  I don't think the transaction-fee donation model will work.  I think transactions should happen faster, and they should be either anonymous or not, none of this in-between stuff.
 698 2011-05-19 01:57:37 <gmaxwell> rhett_: anonymity is really hard. I want a pony.
 699 2011-05-19 01:58:00 <metonymous_> dis-incentivise
 700 2011-05-19 01:58:23 <gmaxwell> rhett_: it's not clear to me that anything better than bitcoin+tor is even possible, and that combination is not anonymous except in very limited careful cases.
 701 2011-05-19 01:58:23 <rhett_> i mean, you guys are claiming that that it's a feature that you rely on knowing who bought something from you.
 702 2011-05-19 01:58:32 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: waiting for a PM from you
 703 2011-05-19 01:58:52 <gmaxwell> rhett_: Transactions have risks. Knowing who you transact with changes those risks.
 704 2011-05-19 01:58:54 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: I think one thing I saw in an article when satoshi was a part was p2p escrow
 705 2011-05-19 01:58:56 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: sry had job interview call thing
 706 2011-05-19 01:59:18 <rhett_> that's the question gmaxwell, I'm just saying I'd like to hear more theory if anyone thinks there is anything better possible or not
 707 2011-05-19 01:59:21 <erbs> rhett_: ive seen a scheme floating around for pure anonymity w/double spend protection in a p2p net...
 708 2011-05-19 01:59:22 <gmaxwell> sacarlson: the system can technically escrow. Software would need to be written.
 709 2011-05-19 01:59:37 <erbs> rhett_: however it required trusted issuers of coins
 710 2011-05-19 01:59:48 <sacarlson> gmaxwell: yes I was reading and thought of a primitive user interface for it
 711 2011-05-19 02:00:07 <gmaxwell> rhett_: you can get strong protection against reversals in btc without knowing who you deal with, but you have to wait.
 712 2011-05-19 02:00:33 <rhett_> i understand that, gmaxwell
 713 2011-05-19 02:00:39 <gmaxwell> or you could use escrow if you don't want to wait, or some kind of not yet existing underwriter.
 714 2011-05-19 02:00:41 <rhett_> thank you
 715 2011-05-19 02:00:53 <luke-jr> sipa: turns out jrmithdobbs was emptying the wallet, so nm
 716 2011-05-19 02:01:09 <erbs> hmm
 717 2011-05-19 02:01:14 <erbs> scam alert
 718 2011-05-19 02:01:58 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: ?
 719 2011-05-19 02:02:18 <erbs> i dunno whats going on.. but i smell something fishy
 720 2011-05-19 02:02:50 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 721 2011-05-19 02:03:17 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: ignore him, he's banned and a troll
 722 2011-05-19 02:03:23 <sacarlson> erbs: it's probly me I just havn't showered yet
 723 2011-05-19 02:03:27 <metonymous_> should github/bitcoin/bitcoin.git HEAD compile and run no problem?
 724 2011-05-19 02:03:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: care to fix the ban evader?
 725 2011-05-19 02:03:45 Incitatus has joined
 726 2011-05-19 02:03:51 * ArtForz neuters erbs
 727 2011-05-19 02:03:54 <ArtForz> there, fixed
 728 2011-05-19 02:04:14 <sacarlson> metonymous_: not on windows but it seems to compile fine on linux
 729 2011-05-19 02:04:22 <metonymous_> sacarlson: ta
 730 2011-05-19 02:04:24 <erbs> i just get a little worried when i hear luke-jr talking about emptying wallets and whatnot
 731 2011-05-19 02:04:32 <erbs> sounds like another one of his schemes
 732 2011-05-19 02:04:38 <metonymous_> i love schemes!
 733 2011-05-19 02:04:46 <metonymous_> and smalltalk
 734 2011-05-19 02:04:58 <jrmithdobbs> cl > *
 735 2011-05-19 02:05:16 <metonymous_> ouch
 736 2011-05-19 02:05:23 <metonymous_> AMOS BASIC ftw
 737 2011-05-19 02:05:50 eamondowling has joined
 738 2011-05-19 02:06:06 tabsa has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 739 2011-05-19 02:06:21 <ArtForz> meh
 740 2011-05-19 02:06:30 <ArtForz> 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE
 741 2011-05-19 02:07:06 <metonymous_> TI-83 basic - I could code u a 5 slot slot machine in one class period - 50 minutes
 742 2011-05-19 02:07:11 eamondowling has quit ()
 743 2011-05-19 02:07:22 <metonymous_> much more interesting than class
 744 2011-05-19 02:07:30 Aahzmundus has joined
 745 2011-05-19 02:08:26 <metonymous_> is the wallet just a berkeley database?
 746 2011-05-19 02:08:32 <ArtForz> yes
 747 2011-05-19 02:08:41 <metonymous_> connect read-only, and nothing can go rwrong?
 748 2011-05-19 02:08:51 <ArtForz> in theory, yes
 749 2011-05-19 02:09:41 <sipa> 03:58:35 < metonymous_> and smalltalk    <- the language?
 750 2011-05-19 02:11:04 <metonymous_> sipa: yeah, i never managed to get enough into it, got distracted by ... what's it called, squeak
 751 2011-05-19 02:11:26 <metonymous_> and then decided to give erlang a bash. btw - erlang would be the PERFECT language for a pool server
 752 2011-05-19 02:12:39 <metonymous_> if taht sentence makes no sense... don't worry :P
 753 2011-05-19 02:12:56 <sipa> you're probably right
 754 2011-05-19 02:13:06 <sipa> but the easiest language is always the one you already know
 755 2011-05-19 02:13:07 <metonymous_> i was going to write it, then found pushpool
 756 2011-05-19 02:13:08 <ntosme2> I need to learn erlang
 757 2011-05-19 02:13:20 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: c'mon if you're gonna suggest erlang be a man and write it in forth
 758 2011-05-19 02:13:21 <metonymous_> sipa: well said
 759 2011-05-19 02:13:26 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: and have it run inside the bootloader!
 760 2011-05-19 02:13:27 <metonymous_> ok ok ok!
 761 2011-05-19 02:13:32 <metonymous_> wtf!?
 762 2011-05-19 02:13:45 <metonymous_> i haven't delved into the src for bitcoin yet
 763 2011-05-19 02:13:48 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: sun (and old apple) hardware's openfirmware is all forth ;P
 764 2011-05-19 02:13:50 <metonymous_> just all the periphery systems
 765 2011-05-19 02:13:51 Moonies has joined
 766 2011-05-19 02:13:57 <metonymous_> ahhh
 767 2011-05-19 02:14:02 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: since you missed the joke.
 768 2011-05-19 02:14:06 <ntosme2> I'm a fan of haskell but it takes so much brain power
 769 2011-05-19 02:14:07 <metonymous_> soooorrr :\
 770 2011-05-19 02:14:07 NOTAL has joined
 771 2011-05-19 02:14:10 <metonymous_> hehehe
 772 2011-05-19 02:14:15 <sipa> ntosme2: haskell is nice :)
 773 2011-05-19 02:14:18 <metonymous_> or, LISP, for the sadists
 774 2011-05-19 02:14:29 <sipa> there are quite some people here that are also on #haskell
 775 2011-05-19 02:14:40 oneman has joined
 776 2011-05-19 02:14:48 redMBA has joined
 777 2011-05-19 02:14:51 <metonymous_> ok, i got stuck here last time
 778 2011-05-19 02:14:54 <metonymous_> openssl/ecdsa.h missing
 779 2011-05-19 02:14:59 <oneman> is there any notable changes between .20.2 and 21
 780 2011-05-19 02:15:01 <metonymous_> in default "yum" installed openssl
 781 2011-05-19 02:15:04 <oneman> I missed the update
 782 2011-05-19 02:15:04 <sipa> metonymous_: fedora?
 783 2011-05-19 02:15:09 <metonymous_> sipa: yep
 784 2011-05-19 02:15:15 <sipa> they remove EC stuff because of patent issues
 785 2011-05-19 02:15:22 <luke-jr> oneman: yes
 786 2011-05-19 02:15:23 <ntosme2> hah!
 787 2011-05-19 02:15:24 <metonymous_> aren't addresses EC?
 788 2011-05-19 02:15:31 <metonymous_> so i built a separate openssl, with ec enabled
 789 2011-05-19 02:15:31 <sipa> ?
 790 2011-05-19 02:15:38 <metonymous_> and it still fails
 791 2011-05-19 02:15:46 <sipa> bitcoin addresses are hashes of the public key yes
 792 2011-05-19 02:15:49 <metonymous_> i figure i'm not *pointing* to it correctly
 793 2011-05-19 02:16:00 <metonymous_> SHA256(ECDSA(doobey)
 794 2011-05-19 02:16:08 <metonymous_> or ECDSA(SHA256(doobey
 795 2011-05-19 02:16:13 <metonymous_> the latter i think from memory
 796 2011-05-19 02:16:19 <sipa> what is that?
 797 2011-05-19 02:16:21 <metonymous_> aaaaanyway, i can't compile it! :(
 798 2011-05-19 02:16:38 <oneman> luke-jr, can't find a list of changes
 799 2011-05-19 02:16:40 <metonymous_> i think i have th compiler options wrong to tell it to use my custom compiled openssl
 800 2011-05-19 02:16:44 <jrmithdobbs> ther's patent issues in openssl? what?
 801 2011-05-19 02:16:52 <sipa> metonymous_: use -L
 802 2011-05-19 02:16:55 <sipa> and -I
 803 2011-05-19 02:16:56 <metonymous_> ECDSA, i think someone has rights over it
 804 2011-05-19 02:16:59 <ArtForz> no
 805 2011-05-19 02:17:03 <metonymous_> use -L librar,y -I include?
 806 2011-05-19 02:17:05 <ArtForz> just stupid paranoid distros
 807 2011-05-19 02:17:12 <metonymous_> it's not pure OSS?
 808 2011-05-19 02:17:17 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: ah
 809 2011-05-19 02:17:18 <sipa> of course it is
 810 2011-05-19 02:17:26 <sipa> but they are afraid of patent clains
 811 2011-05-19 02:17:26 <ArtForz> the EC patents do not cover a straightforward textbook impl
 812 2011-05-19 02:17:43 <ArtForz> just some optimizations which openssl doesn't use
 813 2011-05-19 02:17:58 <metonymous_> whats "fips" openssl?
 814 2011-05-19 02:18:04 EPiSKiNG has joined
 815 2011-05-19 02:18:17 <xelister> / memcpy(uninited, seed, 1024); // don't use. patented. also valgrid complains
 816 2011-05-19 02:19:37 <metonymous_> ./config enable-ed
 817 2011-05-19 02:20:00 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: lol
 818 2011-05-19 02:20:06 <jrmithdobbs> how is memcpy patented
 819 2011-05-19 02:20:21 <metonymous_> strcpy!?
 820 2011-05-19 02:21:06 <xelister> in the land of the brave
 821 2011-05-19 02:21:08 <xelister> in the land of the free
 822 2011-05-19 02:21:19 <xelister> even clicking BUY from inside application is patented
 823 2011-05-19 02:21:24 <xelister> but that is another topic
 824 2011-05-19 02:21:35 <metonymous_> one click purchase, damn amazon
 825 2011-05-19 02:21:40 <xelister> not just that
 826 2011-05-19 02:21:45 <xelister> there is another case read slashdot
 827 2011-05-19 02:21:51 <oneman> bitcoind no longer goes into the bg?
 828 2011-05-19 02:22:01 <sipa> oneman: use -daemon if you want it to
 829 2011-05-19 02:22:05 <oneman> ok
 830 2011-05-19 02:22:09 <metonymous_> fricken hell openssl takes a long time to compile
 831 2011-05-19 02:22:36 <metonymous_> dœmon
 832 2011-05-19 02:23:02 <metonymous_> dæmon
 833 2011-05-19 02:23:03 <metonymous_> found it!
 834 2011-05-19 02:23:14 <metonymous_> option+'
 835 2011-05-19 02:23:16 <metonymous_> on a mac
 836 2011-05-19 02:23:17 <oneman> sipa, great now there is even a newline after the starting message :D
 837 2011-05-19 02:23:19 * xelister gives metonymous_ 10 testbtc reward
 838 2011-05-19 02:23:27 <metonymous_> hehe, yays!
 839 2011-05-19 02:23:30 <metonymous_> :D
 840 2011-05-19 02:23:38 <metonymous_> i'll get u one of my testnet addresssss
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 847 2011-05-19 02:29:22 <metonymous_> how do I pass "-L and -I" if there is no configure step...
 848 2011-05-19 02:29:49 <metonymous_> i'm doing it wrong...
 849 2011-05-19 02:29:50 <metonymous_> make -I/usr/local/ssl/ -f makefile.unix bitcoind
 850 2011-05-19 02:30:25 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: you have to edit the makefile or pass them in as part of CXXFLAGS and LDFLAGS
 851 2011-05-19 02:30:25 <metonymous_> nope make -I/usr/local/ssl/include/ -f makefile.unix bitcoind
 852 2011-05-19 02:30:33 <metonymous_> ah, ok sweet
 853 2011-05-19 02:31:11 <erbs> http://blogs.forbes.com/alexknapp/2011/05/17/d-wave-announces-commerically-available-quantum-computer/
 854 2011-05-19 02:31:22 <nanotube> using python jsonrpc... i run "proxy = jsonrpc.ServiceProxy('http://myuser:mypass@127.0.0.1:8332')", using same user/pass as set in .conf with rpcuser= and rpcpassword=... but when i try any commands, i get 401 unauthorized...
 855 2011-05-19 02:31:26 <erbs> d-wave has been panned as a sham by most of the quantum computing researchers
 856 2011-05-19 02:31:28 <jlewis> ;;bc,mtgox
 857 2011-05-19 02:31:29 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.4999,"low":6.6,"vol":25743,"buy":6.793,"sell":7.3,"last":7.3}}
 858 2011-05-19 02:31:29 <nanotube> anyone have any suggestions?
 859 2011-05-19 02:32:22 <metonymous_> HELL YEAH thanks jrmithdobbs
 860 2011-05-19 02:32:45 <metonymous_> w00t, new error :D miniupnpc
 861 2011-05-19 02:33:08 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: add USE_UPNP= to the end of the make command
 862 2011-05-19 02:33:10 <erbs> nanotube, try setAuthentication(user, pass)
 863 2011-05-19 02:33:13 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: blame bluematt for that
 864 2011-05-19 02:33:25 <metonymous_> USE_UPNP=no ?
 865 2011-05-19 02:33:28 <jrmithdobbs> no
 866 2011-05-19 02:33:31 <jrmithdobbs> USE_UPNP=
 867 2011-05-19 02:33:35 <metonymous_> lol
 868 2011-05-19 02:33:38 <metonymous_> ok
 869 2011-05-19 02:33:39 <metonymous_> :)
 870 2011-05-19 02:33:42 <erbs> or just proxy = jsonrpc.ServerProxy("url", "user", "pass")
 871 2011-05-19 02:33:51 <jrmithdobbs> he does ifdefs on it but sets it in the damned makefile to 0
 872 2011-05-19 02:33:52 <metonymous_> can't linux use upnp?
 873 2011-05-19 02:33:55 <metonymous_> or just not worth it
 874 2011-05-19 02:34:03 <metonymous_> again thankyou jrmithdobbs
 875 2011-05-19 02:34:05 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: requires miniupnp
 876 2011-05-19 02:34:21 <jrmithdobbs> which isn't package for anything (though is a cool package, i use it for other stuff)
 877 2011-05-19 02:34:21 <metonymous_> may as well install it... if it's easy
 878 2011-05-19 02:34:22 noagendamarket has joined
 879 2011-05-19 02:34:29 <Dek> Hi guys im new. Have a question about mining. If you are providing, say (randomly), 1/10,000 the hashing rate of the entire network should you successfully complete 1/10,000th of the blocks?
 880 2011-05-19 02:34:42 dissipate has joined
 881 2011-05-19 02:34:42 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
 882 2011-05-19 02:34:42 dissipate has joined
 883 2011-05-19 02:34:55 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: no
 884 2011-05-19 02:35:10 <Dek> do the larger pools win out every block every time?
 885 2011-05-19 02:35:17 <jrmithdobbs> no
 886 2011-05-19 02:35:55 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r38231132d612 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/Market/plugin.py: Market: add spread to ticker display http://tinyurl.com/6evp97a
 887 2011-05-19 02:35:57 <metonymous_> i hate BOOST
 888 2011-05-19 02:35:59 <metonymous_> btw
 889 2011-05-19 02:36:02 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r0cc02d50619c pushpool/msg.c: more precise reasons for work-not-in-log rejections http://tinyurl.com/67dey4p
 890 2011-05-19 02:36:03 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik * r529dbfaa5c2b pushpool/configure.ac: Version 0.4.1. http://tinyurl.com/64guq4g
 891 2011-05-19 02:36:05 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: your odds don't change based on history so if you have a 1/10000 chance of hitting you always have a 1/10000 chance of hitting regardless of history
 892 2011-05-19 02:36:14 <Dek> sure i understand that
 893 2011-05-19 02:36:20 <metonymous_> yay bournoli trials!
 894 2011-05-19 02:36:45 <Dek> but is it fair between small and large pools, ie if you have 1/10,000 of the hash rate do you get 1/10,000th chance each time or is it less due to efficiency of pooling
 895 2011-05-19 02:36:51 <Dek> what i am getting at is what is the likelyhood of a small solo miner completing blocks against massive pools. is it worth solo mining at all
 896 2011-05-19 02:37:29 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: the question doesn't make sense from a statistics point of view. everyone has whatever odds their hardware gives them
 897 2011-05-19 02:37:34 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 898 2011-05-19 02:37:42 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: on every block, regardless of past
 899 2011-05-19 02:37:44 <Dek> ok
 900 2011-05-19 02:37:46 <justmoon> Dek: only downside of solo mining is that you're exposed to the randomness of getting your reward in a big chunk
 901 2011-05-19 02:38:01 <metonymous_> frick... sorry to whinge about compiling but... "cannot find -lboost_thread"
 902 2011-05-19 02:38:12 <metonymous_> it's installed via yum, "boost-thread"
 903 2011-05-19 02:38:14 <Dek> ok answers my questions
 904 2011-05-19 02:38:17 <Dek> appreciate it
 905 2011-05-19 02:38:24 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: you forgot -devel
 906 2011-05-19 02:38:34 <metonymous_> there isn't one, afaik
 907 2011-05-19 02:38:54 <metonymous_> i guess i get it from source
 908 2011-05-19 02:38:55 <jrmithdobbs> dunno don't use fedora
 909 2011-05-19 02:39:03 <jrmithdobbs> good luck, boost takes ages to build
 910 2011-05-19 02:39:19 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 911 2011-05-19 02:39:21 <metonymous_> ta
 912 2011-05-19 02:39:25 <erbs> ls /usr/lib/libboost_thread*
 913 2011-05-19 02:39:39 <metonymous_> or i could just grab a rpm with it
 914 2011-05-19 02:39:45 <luke-jr> OMG
 915 2011-05-19 02:39:49 <luke-jr> I just realized something
 916 2011-05-19 02:40:08 <metonymous_> erbs: ls: cannot access /usr/lib/libboost_thread*: No such file or directory
 917 2011-05-19 02:40:10 <jrmithdobbs> ?
 918 2011-05-19 02:40:16 <metonymous_> ?
 919 2011-05-19 02:40:21 NC_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 920 2011-05-19 02:40:30 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: you sure you have it installed?
 921 2011-05-19 02:40:53 <metonymous_> yeah, "boost-thread" musn't come with the libraries... devel would
 922 2011-05-19 02:40:56 <erbs> yum install libboost-dev
 923 2011-05-19 02:41:12 <erbs> or boost-devel
 924 2011-05-19 02:41:14 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: it's gonna be in the -dev/devel pacakage: $ dpkg -S /usr/lib/libboost_thread.so
 925 2011-05-19 02:41:17 <jrmithdobbs> libboost-thread1.42-dev: /usr/lib/libboost_thread.so
 926 2011-05-19 02:41:32 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: ?
 927 2011-05-19 02:42:01 <metonymous_> boost-thread.i686 : Runtime component of boost thread library
 928 2011-05-19 02:42:01 <metonymous_> boost-thread.x86_64 : Runtime component of boost thread library
 929 2011-05-19 02:42:19 <erbs> JACKPOT!
 930 2011-05-19 02:42:27 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 931 2011-05-19 02:42:29 <metonymous_> they're installed but...
 932 2011-05-19 02:42:30 <metonymous_> grr
 933 2011-05-19 02:42:33 B0g4r7 has joined
 934 2011-05-19 02:42:45 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6428.msg128785#msg128785
 935 2011-05-19 02:42:52 <erbs> is this fedora? rpm -qa boost-thread.i686
 936 2011-05-19 02:43:40 <metonymous_> returns nothing ! X\
 937 2011-05-19 02:43:44 <metonymous_> i am 65 bit
 938 2011-05-19 02:43:47 <metonymous_> 64
 939 2011-05-19 02:43:49 <luke-jr> whoa
 940 2011-05-19 02:43:50 <luke-jr> 65 bit
 941 2011-05-19 02:43:53 <luke-jr> that's awesome
 942 2011-05-19 02:43:57 <metonymous_> lol XD
 943 2011-05-19 02:43:58 <luke-jr> extra bit to spare
 944 2011-05-19 02:44:01 <metonymous_> it's a flag
 945 2011-05-19 02:44:04 <metonymous_> for awesome
 946 2011-05-19 02:44:07 <metonymous_> it's always on
 947 2011-05-19 02:44:27 <luke-jr> if it's always on, it isn't a bit!
 948 2011-05-19 02:44:38 <erbs> err rpm -ql  boost-thread.x86_64
 949 2011-05-19 02:44:43 <erbs> should tell you what it installed
 950 2011-05-19 02:44:56 <metonymous_> ooh, ta
 951 2011-05-19 02:45:22 <metonymous_> am i broken?
 952 2011-05-19 02:45:24 <metonymous_> nope
 953 2011-05-19 02:45:34 <erbs> on centos for some reason /usr/lib/libboost_thread.a is in boost-devel package
 954 2011-05-19 02:45:47 <metonymous_> how'd u find that out?
 955 2011-05-19 02:45:57 <erbs> i have that file
 956 2011-05-19 02:46:08 <luke-jr> erbs: .a is only used for development
 957 2011-05-19 02:46:14 <metonymous_> ok -> /usr/lib64/libboost_thread-mt.so.1.41.0
 958 2011-05-19 02:46:20 <erbs> ahhh
 959 2011-05-19 02:46:25 <metonymous_> does that mean it's just looing in the wrong spot
 960 2011-05-19 02:46:29 <luke-jr> metonymous_: edit your makefile; change 'shared' or 'dynamic' to 'static'
 961 2011-05-19 02:46:30 <metonymous_> *looking
 962 2011-05-19 02:46:43 <metonymous_> how do u know it's static?
 963 2011-05-19 02:46:48 <metonymous_> (just for my information)
 964 2011-05-19 02:47:02 <luke-jr> err
 965 2011-05-19 02:47:03 <erbs> you should have a libboost_thread.so somewhere too
 966 2011-05-19 02:47:04 <luke-jr> I meant the opposite
 967 2011-05-19 02:47:08 <metonymous_> lol
 968 2011-05-19 02:47:10 <metonymous_> hehehe
 969 2011-05-19 02:47:24 <luke-jr> -Bstatic => -Bdynamic
 970 2011-05-19 02:47:28 <metonymous_> will do
 971 2011-05-19 02:47:28 <luke-jr> that will fix it
 972 2011-05-19 02:47:40 <luke-jr> tho you still need the -devel packages for headers probably
 973 2011-05-19 02:47:42 <metonymous_> why can't i statically build boost-thread into the binary?
 974 2011-05-19 02:47:49 <luke-jr> because static is bad
 975 2011-05-19 02:47:53 <metonymous_> lol
 976 2011-05-19 02:47:56 <luke-jr> otherwise, no idea
 977 2011-05-19 02:47:58 <metonymous_> hehe
 978 2011-05-19 02:48:01 <metonymous_> ok
 979 2011-05-19 02:48:12 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: i don't get how that's useful for eligius
 980 2011-05-19 02:48:15 <metonymous_> if it works though, thanks, cos building boost would have been a pain
 981 2011-05-19 02:48:32 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: and i don't get what you're saying, heh
 982 2011-05-19 02:48:36 <metonymous_> and FRICK we have same failure...
 983 2011-05-19 02:48:37 <metonymous_> ok
 984 2011-05-19 02:48:38 <metonymous_> restart
 985 2011-05-19 02:48:50 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: cand you expound upon that? a purchaser could sign WHAT in the email message?
 986 2011-05-19 02:48:54 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: it proves you own the address, so you can configure the pool
 987 2011-05-19 02:49:04 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: they could sign the items and shipping address
 988 2011-05-19 02:49:10 <luke-jr> to prove they sent the payment
 989 2011-05-19 02:49:12 <jrmithdobbs> ok gotcha
 990 2011-05-19 02:49:18 <jrmithdobbs> might want to add those to that post
 991 2011-05-19 02:49:29 <metonymous_> luke-jr i've got .9 bTC in eligius for a long time, will it cash out or dissapaear?
 992 2011-05-19 02:49:36 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 993 2011-05-19 02:49:40 <jrmithdobbs> makes sense i was just having issues figuring out what data would be useful to sign ;P
 994 2011-05-19 02:50:09 <ninjaneo> does the rpc call for getaccountaddress create an entry in the address book if that account name hasn't been used previously?
 995 2011-05-19 02:50:18 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: think you skipped a couple sentences in your post due to your AH HA moent ;P
 996 2011-05-19 02:50:21 <jrmithdobbs> moment
 997 2011-05-19 02:50:22 <luke-jr> metonymous_: it will be paid when you reach 1 BTC or stop mining for a week
 998 2011-05-19 02:50:30 <metonymous_> ah, ok, ta :)
 999 2011-05-19 02:50:36 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: it's obvious from context? :p
1000 2011-05-19 02:50:48 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: wasn't to me and i even read the rest of the thread first ;P
1001 2011-05-19 02:50:55 <metonymous_> ther are two elgius? very cool
1002 2011-05-19 02:51:00 <ninjaneo> because i noticed it returns an address.... even if i type something ridiculous like ifuckmonkies
1003 2011-05-19 02:51:01 <luke-jr> metonymous_: yes
1004 2011-05-19 02:51:14 <metonymous_> luke-jr: kudos on an awesome pool
1005 2011-05-19 02:51:26 <luke-jr> metonymous_: kudos to 1RNUbHZwo2PmrEQiuX5ascLEXmtcFpooL :P
1006 2011-05-19 02:51:33 <metonymous_> yay me! http://eligius.st/~artefact2/us/199wSt2qkkDUAJUch3kErP1NW3eLvNcowW
1007 2011-05-19 02:51:40 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1008 2011-05-19 02:51:41 <metonymous_> when was my last contgribute...
1009 2011-05-19 02:51:54 <erbs> in soviet russia, you pay the pool...
1010 2011-05-19 02:51:58 <luke-jr> I don't think anyone has made stats for that yet
1011 2011-05-19 02:52:06 <Dek> are all the current pools custom coded or is there some generalized solution for private pooling?
1012 2011-05-19 02:52:15 <luke-jr> Dek: parts are open
1013 2011-05-19 02:52:17 dissipate has joined
1014 2011-05-19 02:52:18 <luke-jr> Dek: no full solution
1015 2011-05-19 02:52:33 <metonymous_> i was thinking of making a pool, where u contribute, and get nothing.
1016 2011-05-19 02:52:35 <metonymous_> i like it
1017 2011-05-19 02:52:37 <Dek> lol
1018 2011-05-19 02:52:39 <metonymous_> reckon it'll be successful?
1019 2011-05-19 02:52:46 <metonymous_> it's like charity
1020 2011-05-19 02:52:47 <metonymous_> to me
1021 2011-05-19 02:52:48 <erbs> luke-jr: will you let users audit the proofs of work or not? otherwise you could be inflating the number of shares to reduce payouts
1022 2011-05-19 02:53:22 <metonymous_> i think more displays should render as 913,899.84 μBTC
1023 2011-05-19 02:53:32 <metonymous_> it makes u feel more happy about small winnings
1024 2011-05-19 02:53:38 <metonymous_> and angry about high fees
1025 2011-05-19 02:53:57 <metonymous_> just my 20,000.00μBTC
1026 2011-05-19 02:54:16 <erbs> interesting
1027 2011-05-19 02:54:48 <nanotube> erbs: python-bitcoinrpc doesn't seem to have that method... and at any rate the constructor seems to have code to just parse the u/p out of the url.
1028 2011-05-19 02:54:49 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1029 2011-05-19 02:55:19 <metonymous_> luke-jr: dynamic didn't fix me compiler big :( i don't think, rather same error
1030 2011-05-19 02:55:25 <metonymous_> make clean, remake
1031 2011-05-19 02:55:38 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: all bits but the ui and payout logic are open
1032 2011-05-19 02:55:38 <metonymous_> i'll see if i can work it out though... never bother
1033 2011-05-19 02:55:39 <erbs> metonymous_, what libs do you have in lib64.. ls /usr/lib/lib64/libbost_thread*
1034 2011-05-19 02:55:48 <erbs> *oost
1035 2011-05-19 02:56:35 <metonymous_> well, firstly it's /usr/lib64, but /usr/lib64/libboost_thread-mt.a  /usr/lib64/libboost_thread-mt.so  /usr/lib64/libboost_thread-mt.so.1.41.0
1036 2011-05-19 02:56:46 <metonymous_> what does "mt" mean
1037 2011-05-19 02:56:51 <erbs> ahh.. you don't have the single threaded lib
1038 2011-05-19 02:56:55 <erbs> thats thread safe
1039 2011-05-19 02:57:01 <metonymous_> multithread
1040 2011-05-19 02:57:01 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: you could piece together a working one assuming you're not doing something innovative like luke pretty quickly
1041 2011-05-19 02:57:04 <luke-jr> erbs: people can already audit the proofs
1042 2011-05-19 02:57:06 <metonymous_> can i just change the include?
1043 2011-05-19 02:57:09 <metonymous_> to -mt?
1044 2011-05-19 02:57:16 <Dek> ok I would like to try
1045 2011-05-19 02:57:18 <erbs> you can probably safely update references to libboost_thread-mt
1046 2011-05-19 02:57:26 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: good luck
1047 2011-05-19 02:57:26 <metonymous_> i'll try
1048 2011-05-19 02:57:35 <Dek> i am researching it on forums to try to find those pieces if you hav any leads you could pm me plz do
1049 2011-05-19 02:57:38 <metonymous_> LOL # for boost 1.37, add -mt to the boost libraries
1050 2011-05-19 02:57:40 <erbs> but seems weird you should also have the single thread version
1051 2011-05-19 02:57:44 <Dek> i appreciate it
1052 2011-05-19 02:57:46 <metonymous_> one line above where iw as
1053 2011-05-19 02:57:48 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: the open pieces aren't secret.
1054 2011-05-19 02:57:49 <metonymous_> ok
1055 2011-05-19 02:57:51 <erbs> hehe
1056 2011-05-19 02:57:52 <metonymous_> what should i look out for?
1057 2011-05-19 02:57:57 BlueMattBot has joined
1058 2011-05-19 02:58:07 <Dek> I can write whatever is missing given time
1059 2011-05-19 02:58:16 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: pushpool and bitcoind. the rest you have to sort out yourself (and you will probably need to modify the open pieces to actually do what you want)
1060 2011-05-19 02:58:19 <metonymous_> should i "-mt" all of the boosts? or just thread?
1061 2011-05-19 02:58:21 <Dek> dont need to be as fancy as public pools
1062 2011-05-19 02:58:35 <Dek> ok thanks
1063 2011-05-19 02:58:36 <erbs> metonymous_: see what the next error is..
1064 2011-05-19 02:58:48 <metonymous_> lol "cannot find -ldb_cxx"
1065 2011-05-19 02:58:59 <erbs> im using boost 1.33
1066 2011-05-19 02:59:01 <metonymous_> that's berekelyey?
1067 2011-05-19 02:59:06 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: the docs on pushpool are awful so be prepared for code reads just got it running
1068 2011-05-19 02:59:27 <erbs> thats dbxml i think
1069 2011-05-19 02:59:29 <Dek> lol naturally I just found it and the readme is about 5 line slong
1070 2011-05-19 02:59:34 <Dek> should be fun
1071 2011-05-19 02:59:35 <metonymous_> i'll handhold u through pushpool for 3 BTC
1072 2011-05-19 02:59:48 <jrmithdobbs> haha
1073 2011-05-19 02:59:50 <metonymous_> xml? cxx? ok, sounds familiar
1074 2011-05-19 02:59:50 <Dek> o ya? too bad i need to set up pool to generate btc lol
1075 2011-05-19 03:00:00 <metonymous_> ok, 10USD
1076 2011-05-19 03:00:03 <metonymous_> ok
1077 2011-05-19 03:00:13 <erbs> yum install libdb-cxx.i686
1078 2011-05-19 03:00:14 <metonymous_> 3BTC from ur first block
1079 2011-05-19 03:00:16 <metonymous_> how's that sound
1080 2011-05-19 03:00:20 <Dek> yeah id do that for sure
1081 2011-05-19 03:00:24 <metonymous_> ta erbs, ur a legend
1082 2011-05-19 03:00:37 <metonymous_> ok, let me compile bitcoind, then i'm urs
1083 2011-05-19 03:00:50 <Dek> sure im ready to roll just let me know
1084 2011-05-19 03:01:08 <metonymous_> erbs GRRR no such package
1085 2011-05-19 03:01:09 <metonymous_> ok
1086 2011-05-19 03:01:12 <metonymous_> time to earn money
1087 2011-05-19 03:01:41 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: not to be a dick, but if you can build posix software don't wast your money
1088 2011-05-19 03:01:58 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: and look at the db*.c files to figure out the schema
1089 2011-05-19 03:02:04 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: that's all the "handholding" you need
1090 2011-05-19 03:02:12 <jrmithdobbs> Dek: the deps are clearly listed in the readme
1091 2011-05-19 03:02:13 <metonymous_> it took me 3 days, on and off
1092 2011-05-19 03:02:18 <metonymous_> true
1093 2011-05-19 03:02:46 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: it's taken you >30 min to build bitcoind too ;P
1094 2011-05-19 03:02:55 BlueMatt has joined
1095 2011-05-19 03:03:04 <metonymous_> OI!
1096 2011-05-19 03:03:08 <metonymous_> it's my first time
1097 2011-05-19 03:03:11 <metonymous_> be gentle
1098 2011-05-19 03:03:38 <erbs> usually ./configure takes care of it all
1099 2011-05-19 03:04:43 <erbs> oh
1100 2011-05-19 03:04:46 <erbs> yum install db4-devel
1101 2011-05-19 03:04:57 agricocb has joined
1102 2011-05-19 03:08:48 ezl has joined
1103 2011-05-19 03:09:13 <erbs> nanotube, i dunno.. seems like bas u/p or some config on the server is denying access
1104 2011-05-19 03:09:22 <erbs> error_log might have some more info like bad permissions
1105 2011-05-19 03:09:39 <nanotube> erbs: i think i found it. testnet pulls .conf from datadir, not from datadir/testnet, due to a (imho) bug.
1106 2011-05-19 03:09:47 <erbs> ahh
1107 2011-05-19 03:09:49 IncitatusOnWater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1108 2011-05-19 03:11:14 <nanotube> erbs: yep that was it.
1109 2011-05-19 03:11:26 <jrmithdobbs> annoying bug
1110 2011-05-19 03:13:07 <metonymous_> erbs: db4-devel already installed... gonna have to see what pacakges that would be in
1111 2011-05-19 03:13:21 <metonymous_> db4-cxx exists
1112 2011-05-19 03:13:34 <metonymous_> but it's installed already
1113 2011-05-19 03:13:37 <metonymous_> how did i fix boost again?
1114 2011-05-19 03:13:40 <metonymous_> oh yeah
1115 2011-05-19 03:13:41 <metonymous_> mt
1116 2011-05-19 03:14:30 <erbs> so you have /usr/lib(64)/libdb_cxx.so
1117 2011-05-19 03:14:32 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: stop using fedora. wtf is up with changing names of standard libs
1118 2011-05-19 03:14:43 Kiba` has joined
1119 2011-05-19 03:14:47 <jrmithdobbs> well, standard-ish
1120 2011-05-19 03:14:55 <metonymous_> fedora comes pre-installed... i'd be throwing away alot of work if i switched now :(
1121 2011-05-19 03:15:15 <jrmithdobbs> and be able to do it all again in ~10 minutes using a not-broken build env
1122 2011-05-19 03:15:17 dvide has joined
1123 2011-05-19 03:15:24 <metonymous_> no, i mean my pool
1124 2011-05-19 03:15:34 <metonymous_> i've got a private pool doin'
1125 2011-05-19 03:15:43 <jrmithdobbs> don't see how you'd throw work away
1126 2011-05-19 03:15:45 <metonymous_> all automated and rebooty safe checkin
1127 2011-05-19 03:15:47 Kiba` is now known as kiba`
1128 2011-05-19 03:15:50 <metonymous_> i agree ubuntu would be nicer
1129 2011-05-19 03:15:52 Netsniper has joined
1130 2011-05-19 03:16:10 <jrmithdobbs> i wouldn't
1131 2011-05-19 03:16:20 <metonymous_> ok then
1132 2011-05-19 03:16:21 <jrmithdobbs> but infer what i'd recomend at random, that's fine
1133 2011-05-19 03:16:24 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
1134 2011-05-19 03:16:38 <metonymous_> true
1135 2011-05-19 03:16:47 <metonymous_> my apologies for inferrence
1136 2011-05-19 03:16:59 <jrmithdobbs> ok i'm done fuckin with pushpool tonight, i think i'm going to start the pale king finally
1137 2011-05-19 03:17:08 <metonymous_> ?
1138 2011-05-19 03:17:26 <jrmithdobbs> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale_King
1139 2011-05-19 03:17:47 kiba` is now known as kiba
1140 2011-05-19 03:17:52 <erbs> hmm1
1141 2011-05-19 03:18:09 <metonymous_> erbs: there is no ./configure
1142 2011-05-19 03:18:39 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: there is if you pull the right patches from git ;P
1143 2011-05-19 03:18:46 <jrmithdobbs> autotools is coming! autotools is coming!
1144 2011-05-19 03:18:49 <erbs> no worries its not using autoconf
1145 2011-05-19 03:18:54 <metonymous_> a frick patches and patches
1146 2011-05-19 03:18:54 <erbs> ahh
1147 2011-05-19 03:19:00 <metonymous_> where's my "buildable" branch eh?
1148 2011-05-19 03:19:04 <metonymous_> :\
1149 2011-05-19 03:19:07 <metonymous_> hehehe
1150 2011-05-19 03:19:11 <metonymous_> i kid i kid
1151 2011-05-19 03:19:20 <jrmithdobbs> default branch builds fine :)
1152 2011-05-19 03:19:32 <metonymous_> grrrrrr...... :@
1153 2011-05-19 03:19:47 <erbs> luke-jr is a smart guy
1154 2011-05-19 03:20:11 <Alexees> guys how do check my balance in luke pools ?
1155 2011-05-19 03:20:25 <metonymous_> go to that url thingo
1156 2011-05-19 03:20:35 <metonymous_> eligius.st/~artefact2/
1157 2011-05-19 03:21:29 <Alexees> thanks let me check
1158 2011-05-19 03:21:57 <jrmithdobbs> not hit a block since diff change it looks like :(
1159 2011-05-19 03:22:15 <erbs> shit is difficult now
1160 2011-05-19 03:22:22 backwardation25 has joined
1161 2011-05-19 03:22:41 <erbs> wrestling a bear
1162 2011-05-19 03:23:16 <metonymous_> if i made a prebuilt binary linux pool server, how much dya reckon u could sell it for, eg. luke-jr has anyone offered to buy ur software to run a competitor? how much would t hey have to offfer?
1163 2011-05-19 03:24:11 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: all his stuff but payout logic is open
1164 2011-05-19 03:24:25 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: and the api/web stuff
1165 2011-05-19 03:24:25 <luke-jr> metonymous_: no, and it wouldn't be a single binary
1166 2011-05-19 03:24:47 <metonymous_> correct, but gui is the pincher
1167 2011-05-19 03:24:53 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: gui is the easy part.
1168 2011-05-19 03:24:53 <metonymous_> for the 'ensemble'
1169 2011-05-19 03:24:55 <metonymous_> i guess
1170 2011-05-19 03:24:58 <metonymous_> reheally
1171 2011-05-19 03:25:30 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: yes the hard part is the payout logic and catching cheaters
1172 2011-05-19 03:25:42 <metonymous_> ah
1173 2011-05-19 03:25:53 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: and setting rates properly so you can actually run at a profit without ripping people off
1174 2011-05-19 03:25:59 <erbs> luke-jr is a cool guy. lets bury the hatchet bro
1175 2011-05-19 03:26:18 <jrmithdobbs> metonymous_: all of which luke does very well, tbqh
1176 2011-05-19 03:26:29 <metonymous_> agreed
1177 2011-05-19 03:26:51 <erbs> pools have to start publishing the work proofs of the entire pool, otherwise there's no way to know you're getting a fair share
1178 2011-05-19 03:27:03 <erbs> any pool that refuses to do that would raise a flag to me
1179 2011-05-19 03:27:10 <metonymous_> that's a huge db
1180 2011-05-19 03:27:21 <metonymous_> that's if they are share based, no?
1181 2011-05-19 03:27:31 <erbs> yeah its a few megs, and you only need to check a few thousand records to be 99% sure theres no significant fraud :)
1182 2011-05-19 03:27:47 <luke-jr> erbs: all the proofs for my pool are accessible on request to trusted community members
1183 2011-05-19 03:27:55 rhett_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1184 2011-05-19 03:27:58 <erbs> cool
1185 2011-05-19 03:28:00 <luke-jr> few megs? it's over 3 GB now
1186 2011-05-19 03:28:12 <erbs> well youve done lots of blocks
1187 2011-05-19 03:28:18 <luke-jr> about 1 GB per week, at 50 GH
1188 2011-05-19 03:28:22 <metonymous_> is taht in mysql? isam?
1189 2011-05-19 03:28:25 <luke-jr> MySQL
1190 2011-05-19 03:28:33 <metonymous_> sweet
1191 2011-05-19 03:28:35 <erbs> if you compress that down in a gz file?
1192 2011-05-19 03:28:36 <metonymous_> was wondering how it would cope
1193 2011-05-19 03:29:17 <metonymous_> -rw-rw-r--  1 ec2-user ec2-user  80M May 17 00:43 shares.log.1
1194 2011-05-19 03:29:17 <metonymous_> -rw-rw-r--  1 ec2-user ec2-user  14M May 17 00:43 shares.log.1.gz
1195 2011-05-19 03:29:34 <metonymous_> but taht's not maximum compression
1196 2011-05-19 03:30:53 <erbs> yeah that makes sense
1197 2011-05-19 03:31:16 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: i have no doubt luke would show anyone who asks and isn't you tbqh
1198 2011-05-19 03:31:38 <erbs> jrmithdobbs: has anyone actually checked hit?
1199 2011-05-19 03:31:46 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: yes.
1200 2011-05-19 03:31:50 vorlov has joined
1201 2011-05-19 03:31:54 <erbs> any independent party that is
1202 2011-05-19 03:31:58 <jrmithdobbs> yes.
1203 2011-05-19 03:32:04 <luke-jr> erbs: I'm not compressing.
1204 2011-05-19 03:32:05 <erbs> who/when/where?
1205 2011-05-19 03:32:07 <jrmithdobbs> now troll elsewhere
1206 2011-05-19 03:32:22 <sacarlson> where does the ~./bitcoin dir default in windows?
1207 2011-05-19 03:32:24 <erbs> so i should take your word for it
1208 2011-05-19 03:32:25 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: give me deepbits proof of work.
1209 2011-05-19 03:32:34 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: %apadata%\
1210 2011-05-19 03:32:36 <erbs> i think its an issue with all pools
1211 2011-05-19 03:32:38 <jrmithdobbs> erm appdata
1212 2011-05-19 03:33:09 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: c:\apadata ?
1213 2011-05-19 03:33:28 <metonymous_> lol
1214 2011-05-19 03:33:35 <metonymous_> c:\documents and settings\ME\Application Data\
1215 2011-05-19 03:33:41 <metonymous_> %APPDATA%
1216 2011-05-19 03:33:44 <metonymous_> it's a variable
1217 2011-05-19 03:34:05 <erbs> i really have to wonder if any pool would offer up proofs in a dispute
1218 2011-05-19 03:34:18 <erbs> since its by manual request only
1219 2011-05-19 03:34:21 <EPiSKiNG> are difficulties projected via a 2 week timeframe?
1220 2011-05-19 03:34:28 <sacarlson> metonymous_: thanks I'm new to the windows world here
1221 2011-05-19 03:34:47 <metonymous_> no worries
1222 2011-05-19 03:34:53 <metonymous_> we all start somewhere :)
1223 2011-05-19 03:36:04 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1224 2011-05-19 03:36:36 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1225 2011-05-19 03:36:39 OVerLoRDI has joined
1226 2011-05-19 03:37:01 <erbs> orange julius
1227 2011-05-19 03:37:29 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1228 2011-05-19 03:37:35 <metonymous_> i HATE that money and FOSS are counterpoint :X
1229 2011-05-19 03:37:46 <luke-jr> they aren't.
1230 2011-05-19 03:38:21 <metonymous_> i don't want to run a server, i want to just develop servers
1231 2011-05-19 03:38:31 <metonymous_> how do i make that *work*
1232 2011-05-19 03:39:30 <metonymous_> sell the software t o people? but make it AGPL?
1233 2011-05-19 03:39:55 <metonymous_> rely on being "newer" than their code?
1234 2011-05-19 03:40:48 <bd_> metonymous_: Sell support.
1235 2011-05-19 03:40:59 <metonymous_> there's an idea
1236 2011-05-19 03:41:24 <metonymous_> sell the software as license? like redhat and them?
1237 2011-05-19 03:41:32 <metonymous_> with support contracts or something?
1238 2011-05-19 03:42:12 backwardation25 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1239 2011-05-19 03:42:25 <erbs> http://www.slate.com/id/2294980/  btc is going to $10 bros!
1240 2011-05-19 03:42:31 <bd_> metonymous_: Or just sell support contracts :)
1241 2011-05-19 03:42:39 <metonymous_> :D
1242 2011-05-19 03:42:49 <metonymous_> i reckon i could do that
1243 2011-05-19 03:42:54 <metonymous_> but i'd have to prove myself first
1244 2011-05-19 03:43:03 <metonymous_> i guess runnign a pool might deo that
1245 2011-05-19 03:43:10 theboos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1246 2011-05-19 03:43:11 <bd_> Being the upstream developer often helps )
1247 2011-05-19 03:43:12 <bd_> :)
1248 2011-05-19 03:43:28 <metonymous_> hmmm
1249 2011-05-19 03:43:52 AntiVigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1250 2011-05-19 03:44:03 <erbs> trying to use gmail in IE
1251 2011-05-19 03:44:10 <erbs> completely broken...  Gmail requires ActiveX controls to be enabled
1252 2011-05-19 03:44:26 <metonymous_> wa? lol :D
1253 2011-05-19 03:44:32 <metonymous_> it probably uses chrome frame
1254 2011-05-19 03:44:39 <metonymous_> an active x thingo that runs chrome in IE
1255 2011-05-19 03:44:49 <Namegduf> Switch to using a less crappy browser, or at least let it do it for you. :P
1256 2011-05-19 03:44:56 <metonymous_> heheh
1257 2011-05-19 03:45:22 <erbs> i need to login to another acct and ff is already in gmail
1258 2011-05-19 03:45:23 AntiVigilante has joined
1259 2011-05-19 03:45:42 <erbs> fuck it. its now a trusted site
1260 2011-05-19 03:45:47 agricocb has joined
1261 2011-05-19 03:45:53 <metonymous_> gmail supports 2 logins
1262 2011-05-19 03:45:56 <metonymous_> just gotta activate it
1263 2011-05-19 03:46:00 <metonymous_> i log into about 4 at once
1264 2011-05-19 03:46:04 <metonymous_> mutlilogin
1265 2011-05-19 03:46:05 <metonymous_> or
1266 2011-05-19 03:46:06 <metonymous_> use chrome
1267 2011-05-19 03:46:12 <metonymous_> and and use ingocnito
1268 2011-05-19 03:46:15 <metonymous_> or if u like firefox
1269 2011-05-19 03:46:25 <metonymous_> launch it with the command line parameter thaat shows the profile manager
1270 2011-05-19 03:46:26 <Namegduf> erbs: They've stolen your thoughts!
1271 2011-05-19 03:46:27 <metonymous_> then use a new profile
1272 2011-05-19 03:46:33 OVerLoRDI has left ("Leaving")
1273 2011-05-19 03:46:43 <Namegduf> Never trust Google, they're spying on your thoughts and making you vote Democrat
1274 2011-05-19 03:47:06 <erbs> dude
1275 2011-05-19 03:47:18 <erbs> take off the tinfoil hat bro
1276 2011-05-19 03:47:23 <erbs> google isn't that powerful (yet)
1277 2011-05-19 03:47:45 fimp has joined
1278 2011-05-19 03:47:52 <xelister> erbs: this article is a steaming pile of bullshit.  http://www.slate.com/id/2294980/
1279 2011-05-19 03:49:27 <Namegduf> I object to that characterisation. I am *not* a hipster.
1280 2011-05-19 03:49:37 <erbs> any PR in a major outlet tends to inflate the price
1281 2011-05-19 03:49:42 <erbs> the content of the article is irrelevant
1282 2011-05-19 03:49:54 <ninjaneo> LOL using bitcoins is like stealing art, is that what they are insinuating
1283 2011-05-19 03:50:17 <erbs> thats a valid point i guess
1284 2011-05-19 03:50:22 <xelister> "But today criminals might not need to resort to stealing old masters to facilitate their deals. They might use bitcoin, "
1285 2011-05-19 03:50:26 <xelister> ok Im a criminal
1286 2011-05-19 03:50:43 <xelister> 1000 BTC to have pack of drunk russian soliders beat up author of that article  ;)
1287 2011-05-19 03:50:59 <phantomcircuit> ninjaneo, yes it is
1288 2011-05-19 03:51:00 <erbs> both bitcoins and art can be laundered without being monitored by traditional bank / fraud systems
1289 2011-05-19 03:51:29 <ninjaneo> so can wooden nickels
1290 2011-05-19 03:51:33 <erbs> at a bank any transaction over >$10K is immediately reported to the IRS
1291 2011-05-19 03:51:44 <phantomcircuit> erbs, 5kUSD
1292 2011-05-19 03:51:53 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1293 2011-05-19 03:51:55 <phantomcircuit> they changed it because of terrorists of kiddie porn
1294 2011-05-19 03:51:58 <phantomcircuit> s/of/or/
1295 2011-05-19 03:52:03 <erbs> (if you split up your payments to avoid detection thats called "structuring" and is a felony hehe)
1296 2011-05-19 03:52:04 <phantomcircuit> one of those things i cant remember which
1297 2011-05-19 03:52:08 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: or both depending on who you ask
1298 2011-05-19 03:52:21 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: they were real fuzzy about the actual reasoning for the change
1299 2011-05-19 03:52:24 <xelister> phantomcircuit: pedorists
1300 2011-05-19 03:52:26 <Namegduf> xelister: There's someone offering hitman services with bitcoin?
1301 2011-05-19 03:52:34 <Namegduf> Wait, wait, I haven't got my anonymous VPS setup yet
1302 2011-05-19 03:52:37 <noagendamarket> what if you get 5 members of your family to each transfer 5000 ?
1303 2011-05-19 03:52:42 <Namegduf> Nevermind that question for now
1304 2011-05-19 03:52:46 <erbs> depending on the particular day of the week they might be blaming the potheads, gays, abortionists
1305 2011-05-19 03:52:52 <xelister> lol Namegduf
1306 2011-05-19 03:53:09 <phantomcircuit> xelister, lolol
1307 2011-05-19 03:53:55 <Namegduf> I think the criminal problem is real and likely to increase, as a side effect of its design. But, hey, what happens happens.
1308 2011-05-19 03:54:17 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: until they figure out it's not really anonymous anyways
1309 2011-05-19 03:54:23 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: then we all get to have a good laugh.
1310 2011-05-19 03:54:32 <erbs> the $5,000 is a suspicious activity report, but its not done automatically. its at the banks discretion
1311 2011-05-19 03:54:57 <Namegduf> jrmithdobbs: There's ways to construct anonymous transactions, though, right?
1312 2011-05-19 03:55:02 <Namegduf> Laundering, for example?
1313 2011-05-19 03:55:30 <noagendamarket> you could get 50 runners to deposit in mt gox from 50 differnet banks
1314 2011-05-19 03:55:59 <noagendamarket> $250 000 right there....
1315 2011-05-19 03:56:12 <erbs> mtgox is cia bro
1316 2011-05-19 03:56:16 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: money has to come in and exit to be useful. so no, not really. Not in a way that can't be found by traditional investigative techniques.
1317 2011-05-19 03:56:21 <erbs> its a honeypot
1318 2011-05-19 03:56:30 <erbs> j/k yo haha
1319 2011-05-19 03:56:30 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: it'll take fbi/etc 10-20 years to catch up to the tech as usual of course
1320 2011-05-19 03:56:41 <Namegduf> jrmithdobbs: Well yeah, the moment it enters and exits the system it becomes followable again
1321 2011-05-19 03:56:56 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: no in the system it's followable. by design.
1322 2011-05-19 03:57:13 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: blockexplorer.com have fun
1323 2011-05-19 03:57:34 <erbs> given that irc is the home of "Anonymous" the nsa/cia have been monitored all irc traffic for a while looking for keywords
1324 2011-05-19 03:57:48 <erbs> theyre monitoring the entire net now
1325 2011-05-19 03:57:59 <jrmithdobbs> i still lol at the fact that anonymous seriously has fbi agents dedicated to them
1326 2011-05-19 03:58:02 <EPiSKiNG> Tycho around?
1327 2011-05-19 03:58:05 <Namegduf> Bin laden revenge jihad.
1328 2011-05-19 03:58:05 <jrmithdobbs> talk about law enforcement not "getting" it
1329 2011-05-19 03:58:07 <Namegduf> There we go.
1330 2011-05-19 03:58:30 <EPiSKiNG> is there any way he could make the share results on the right more quickly updated?
1331 2011-05-19 03:58:45 <jrmithdobbs> yes
1332 2011-05-19 03:58:49 <jrmithdobbs> will he? who knows.
1333 2011-05-19 03:59:03 <phantomcircuit> The most immediate risk, though, seems to be that Bitcoins will facilitate transactions for criminals, online poker players, tax-evaders, pornographers, drug dealers, and other unsavory types tired of carrying around a Vermeer.
1334 2011-05-19 03:59:04 <phantomcircuit> rofl
1335 2011-05-19 03:59:17 <phantomcircuit> really? because last i checked porn was legal and they used fucking banks
1336 2011-05-19 03:59:32 <Namegduf> The only way it will facilitate porn is through easier micropayments
1337 2011-05-19 03:59:39 <jrmithdobbs> haha
1338 2011-05-19 03:59:46 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: slate.com
1339 2011-05-19 03:59:50 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: are you really surprised?
1340 2011-05-19 04:00:12 <erbs> the fbi is basically dealing mainly with child porn now
1341 2011-05-19 04:00:23 <erbs> its the easiest crime to prosecute and gets them headlines
1342 2011-05-19 04:00:31 <Namegduf> jrmithdobbs: I was under the impression you could run a laundry service which took payments and would send on payments to a specified address minus a fee
1343 2011-05-19 04:00:49 <erbs> they dont have to do anything but sit in a dark room and fap to confiscated porn.. no risky operations like infiltrating a gang
1344 2011-05-19 04:00:50 <Namegduf> jrmithdobbs: And that that could be designed to effectively provide good anonymisation
1345 2011-05-19 04:00:57 <Namegduf> Although if the amounts are a giveaway, that's a problem.
1346 2011-05-19 04:01:05 <Namegduf> And there needs to be enough traffic, etc.
1347 2011-05-19 04:01:19 <erbs> i wouldnt be surprised if like 60% of the fbi budget is dealing with pornography
1348 2011-05-19 04:01:21 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: you can obsfucate it but it it's tracable enough that people need to stop printing that it's anonymous.
1349 2011-05-19 04:01:38 <Namegduf> Fair enough.
1350 2011-05-19 04:01:57 <phantomcircuit> erbs, that's about right the official % was on /. not too long ago
1351 2011-05-19 04:02:11 <erbs> interesting
1352 2011-05-19 04:02:34 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: seriously?
1353 2011-05-19 04:02:39 <phantomcircuit> erbs, not to mention the fbi will not respond to a cyber crime unless the damage is  300k USD
1354 2011-05-19 04:02:45 <jrmithdobbs> i mean child porn is awful shit
1355 2011-05-19 04:02:56 oneman has left ("Leaving")
1356 2011-05-19 04:03:04 <Namegduf> Law enforcement IRT online stuff is far more pathetic than it should be.
1357 2011-05-19 04:03:05 <jrmithdobbs> but are we out of murders and tax evasions and i missed it?
1358 2011-05-19 04:03:35 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: ya, you should try being the one at the isp dealing with the idiots
1359 2011-05-19 04:03:37 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, they dont even go after the people making or distributing it, just after the really obvious stuff
1360 2011-05-19 04:03:41 OxFFFEuck has joined
1361 2011-05-19 04:03:47 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, i mena shit, 4chan is still online, that says enough to me
1362 2011-05-19 04:03:48 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: they tried to take all our networking gear because they had a warrant for customer's colo box once
1363 2011-05-19 04:03:53 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: fucking. retards.
1364 2011-05-19 04:03:55 <erbs> most of the tiem they prosecute innocent families that post photo albums online with their toddler showin some "skin" or something
1365 2011-05-19 04:04:38 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
1366 2011-05-19 04:04:55 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: was like whoa whoa hold up there buddy ... had to get lawyers involved
1367 2011-05-19 04:04:58 <jrmithdobbs> retards
1368 2011-05-19 04:05:01 <erbs> remember the fbi used to be run by j edgar hoover
1369 2011-05-19 04:05:08 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
1370 2011-05-19 04:05:08 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.4649,"low":6.6,"vol":25053,"buy":7.1111,"sell":7.198,"last":7.2}}
1371 2011-05-19 04:05:11 <Namegduf> Ouch.
1372 2011-05-19 04:05:11 <gjs278> sweet
1373 2011-05-19 04:05:14 <gjs278> back above 7
1374 2011-05-19 04:05:20 <phantomcircuit> price is stable
1375 2011-05-19 04:05:23 <phantomcircuit> has been for days
1376 2011-05-19 04:05:33 <xelister> erbs: you know what, that got me thinking
1377 2011-05-19 04:05:40 <erbs> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/04/29/1948242/Department-of-Justice-FBI-Too-Focused-On-Child-Porn
1378 2011-05-19 04:05:44 <xelister> In the land of the brave
1379 2011-05-19 04:05:45 <xelister> In the land of the free
1380 2011-05-19 04:05:47 <xelister> everyone is looking all day for pedorists,
1381 2011-05-19 04:05:48 <xelister> while TSA happily watching naked all-age turists.
1382 2011-05-19 04:05:50 <xelister> 17 year olds can not stare at girlfriend's chest,
1383 2011-05-19 04:05:51 <xelister> but it's ok for TSA officer to grope your doughter breasts.
1384 2011-05-19 04:05:53 <xelister> No one will mind you feeding sand niggers with Bombs
1385 2011-05-19 04:05:54 <xelister> just don't spend time online downloading unprotected songs.
1386 2011-05-19 04:05:57 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: and they never wanted just a clone of a customers machine. we could have given them such a thing without the customer ever knowing. we offered. nope. they wanted the whole machine and/or harddrive
1387 2011-05-19 04:06:15 <xelister> ...on the other hand I shouldnt think while tired&drunk >_>
1388 2011-05-19 04:06:29 <jrmithdobbs> Namegduf: even though they don't have the resources to do anything more with the physical drive from the box than they would have with a clone.
1389 2011-05-19 04:06:38 Vandroiy has joined
1390 2011-05-19 04:06:38 ForceDestroyer has quit (Disconnected by services)
1391 2011-05-19 04:06:45 <erbs> for a while fbi has had access to all internet traffic.. with carnivore etc
1392 2011-05-19 04:06:53 <Namegduf> xelister: Always wear a condom when downloading songs.
1393 2011-05-19 04:07:11 <erbs> they can listen in on any phone call from a web browser
1394 2011-05-19 04:07:31 <xelister> Namegduf: dick is the new TOR. Better confiscate all this rape-tools for possible criminals
1395 2011-05-19 04:07:36 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: not entirely true
1396 2011-05-19 04:08:21 <jrmithdobbs> love the recent publication of the fbi's justification for marking out the names of people participating in carnivore though
1397 2011-05-19 04:08:24 AntiVigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1398 2011-05-19 04:08:31 <jrmithdobbs> "we redacted them so you wouldn't sue them" (to the aclu)
1399 2011-05-19 04:08:38 <jrmithdobbs> that was seriously their response
1400 2011-05-19 04:08:50 <jrmithdobbs> NO SHIT ASSHATS THEY WANTED THE FUCKIN DOCS SO THEY COULD SUE THEM
1401 2011-05-19 04:09:47 <erbs> the book "Puzzle Palace" gives a nice history of wiretap spying in the US going back to the telegraph era... in every decade, the govt has had secret agreements with communications providers to listen in on all the traffic
1402 2011-05-19 04:09:50 AntiVigilante has joined
1403 2011-05-19 04:10:16 <jrmithdobbs> they're really mad about encryption
1404 2011-05-19 04:10:24 <erbs> yeah
1405 2011-05-19 04:10:31 <jrmithdobbs> only terrists and criminals use encryption obviously
1406 2011-05-19 04:10:35 * jrmithdobbs rolleyes
1407 2011-05-19 04:10:43 <xelister> triple AES... U MAD BRO? :-D
1408 2011-05-19 04:11:03 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: well that sonds at least partially right, the gov does use it
1409 2011-05-19 04:11:19 <erbs> now the fad in homeland security is monitoring and data mining of all social network activity
1410 2011-05-19 04:11:40 <erbs> using heuristics to identify the most "suspicious" ppl based on their social links
1411 2011-05-19 04:11:54 NOTAL has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1412 2011-05-19 04:11:56 <xelister> we should all like add Osama to Friends lolz
1413 2011-05-19 04:12:10 <erbs> does he have a fb acct?
1414 2011-05-19 04:12:12 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1415 2011-05-19 04:12:16 <xelister> I rather doubt it
1416 2011-05-19 04:12:21 <erbs> status: Dead
1417 2011-05-19 04:12:26 <xelister> seing as he didnt had internet at all
1418 2011-05-19 04:12:31 <Dek> it would be a memorial account now
1419 2011-05-19 04:13:27 <xelister> Obsama
1420 2011-05-19 04:13:42 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: and all that crap is based on that bunk gbgary retard's "research" lol
1421 2011-05-19 04:13:47 <erbs> harhar
1422 2011-05-19 04:13:49 <jrmithdobbs> hbgary
1423 2011-05-19 04:13:53 smooth_ has joined
1424 2011-05-19 04:13:54 <xelister> Biarrack Obsama
1425 2011-05-19 04:14:53 <erbs> i think they stopped putting anything useful in vicodin
1426 2011-05-19 04:14:59 <erbs> its like a complete placebo now
1427 2011-05-19 04:15:04 <erbs> i dont feel a thing from it
1428 2011-05-19 04:15:18 <xelister> emigrate from USA, move to some more free land?
1429 2011-05-19 04:15:38 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
1430 2011-05-19 04:15:40 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: it's impossible to get a work visa anywhere decent as a us citizen
1431 2011-05-19 04:15:49 <jrmithdobbs> without a phd and a sponsor
1432 2011-05-19 04:15:50 <xelister> lol wat?
1433 2011-05-19 04:15:51 <jrmithdobbs> seriously.
1434 2011-05-19 04:15:54 <xelister> nigger please
1435 2011-05-19 04:16:00 <jrmithdobbs> no i've tried
1436 2011-05-19 04:16:04 <xelister> well take the money, arrive to EU, done
1437 2011-05-19 04:16:18 <xelister> dont tell me wealthy person from USA cant move to EU?
1438 2011-05-19 04:16:41 <xelister> pl doesnt require visa
1439 2011-05-19 04:16:41 <jrmithdobbs> not and get a work visa and or perm residency
1440 2011-05-19 04:16:42 <jrmithdobbs> no
1441 2011-05-19 04:16:51 <xelister> pl doesnt require visa
1442 2011-05-19 04:16:58 <xelister> just arrive "because" and thats it
1443 2011-05-19 04:17:30 <jrmithdobbs> but then you have to live in poland
1444 2011-05-19 04:17:38 <jrmithdobbs> who wants that
1445 2011-05-19 04:17:41 rhett_ has joined
1446 2011-05-19 04:18:02 <xelister> in many ways better then usa
1447 2011-05-19 04:18:05 <jrmithdobbs> i said decent not awful
1448 2011-05-19 04:18:12 <xelister> anyway, from PL you can easly travle everywhere eu
1449 2011-05-19 04:18:16 jgarzik has joined
1450 2011-05-19 04:18:27 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: doesn't matter if you can't get citizenship
1451 2011-05-19 04:18:29 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
1452 2011-05-19 04:18:29 jgarzik has joined
1453 2011-05-19 04:18:36 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: why?
1454 2011-05-19 04:18:48 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: because most eu members wont let you stay for more than 3 months without it
1455 2011-05-19 04:18:53 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a3pre)
1456 2011-05-19 04:18:57 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: well ultimatelly you can get citenzenship, just stay in country for like a year, find some job and place to stay
1457 2011-05-19 04:19:00 <erbs> http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/900   current understanding of ozone/nox/co2 pollution and its effect on global health
1458 2011-05-19 04:19:04 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: i really have looked into this, i wasn't joking ;P
1459 2011-05-19 04:19:09 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: bullshit
1460 2011-05-19 04:19:19 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: well just don't ask them?
1461 2011-05-19 04:19:37 <xelister> its not like with usafags chasing mexican "omg Im illllegall noooo senior KE PASA"
1462 2011-05-19 04:19:46 <xelister> just stay in country and noone gives a flying fuck
1463 2011-05-19 04:20:20 <erbs> On Wednesday afternoon, the official account of the U.S. Secret Service Tweeted the following message: "Had to monitor Fox for a story. Can't. Deal. With. The. Blathering."
1464 2011-05-19 04:20:21 <erbs> haha
1465 2011-05-19 04:20:30 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: go look at the actual reqs. what you're saying is true for eu citizens and people from nz and ca
1466 2011-05-19 04:20:38 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: not us citizens.
1467 2011-05-19 04:20:42 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: even in poland.
1468 2011-05-19 04:20:44 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: just checked.
1469 2011-05-19 04:20:46 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: and in real life people dont give a flying fuck
1470 2011-05-19 04:20:47 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
1471 2011-05-19 04:20:49 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125033 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1974 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 10 hours, 50 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 278102.83417329
1472 2011-05-19 04:20:56 <erbs> http://politics.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979340658
1473 2011-05-19 04:20:58 <xelister> just checked it
1474 2011-05-19 04:21:07 <xelister> chief of police was mureder, nothing
1475 2011-05-19 04:21:22 <xelister> police kidnaps people helps criminals hides evidence, nothing
1476 2011-05-19 04:21:33 <xelister> no. one. will. care. at. all. about your stay in whatever
1477 2011-05-19 04:21:34 eao has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1478 2011-05-19 04:21:56 <xelister> but im here just entire life, what do I know =)
1479 2011-05-19 04:22:10 <jrmithdobbs> sounds like a great place to live.
1480 2011-05-19 04:22:44 <xelister> simmilar noone will care anywhere in EU
1481 2011-05-19 04:22:46 <xelister> think
1482 2011-05-19 04:23:02 <xelister> you just crossborder and ha-ha you're now say in germany
1483 2011-05-19 04:23:07 <erbs> they might care if you're muslim or a gypsy
1484 2011-05-19 04:23:10 <xelister> who should 'deport' you and why
1485 2011-05-19 04:23:14 <xelister> erbs: yeap.
1486 2011-05-19 04:23:31 <xelister> they will care if you are "lower" like muslim,gypsy, african, etc
1487 2011-05-19 04:23:32 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1488 2011-05-19 04:23:43 <xelister> or chinese/vietnameas/etc
1489 2011-05-19 04:23:46 <xelister> otherwise they do NOT.
1490 2011-05-19 04:23:46 rhett_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1491 2011-05-19 04:23:54 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: or american
1492 2011-05-19 04:23:58 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: no
1493 2011-05-19 04:24:01 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: they don't like us either.
1494 2011-05-19 04:24:06 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: and how would anyone know where you are
1495 2011-05-19 04:24:22 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1496 2011-05-19 04:24:23 <xelister> have a chip up ur ass?
1497 2011-05-19 04:24:51 <xelister> travel as tourists to Berlin, then wonder off, and unless you like go frenzy and kill 5 hookers with knifes, noone searches - why should they
1498 2011-05-19 04:24:55 <xelister> and where
1499 2011-05-19 04:25:32 <jrmithdobbs> being undocumented gets you none of the benefits that are the point of immigrating though?! i don't think you get the point.
1500 2011-05-19 04:25:35 <xelister> you think police tracks every of hundreds thousands of non-eu tourists all day long everywhere? ;)  get real
1501 2011-05-19 04:25:56 <xelister> stop thinking like usafag, ignore permits and all
1502 2011-05-19 04:26:03 <erbs> dude i cant go to jail
1503 2011-05-19 04:26:09 <erbs> i cant pee in public!
1504 2011-05-19 04:26:35 <xelister> just do something. best have loads of money to start easy. once you anyway have job&house and are staying there just the right amount of time, apply for citenzenship
1505 2011-05-19 04:26:55 <xelister> or just apply for dual citenzenship
1506 2011-05-19 04:27:01 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: the places in eu worth living (aka, not third world like poland and most of eastern europe) do care.
1507 2011-05-19 04:27:09 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: sorry you live in a shithole or something
1508 2011-05-19 04:27:10 <xelister> lol what thirl world nigger
1509 2011-05-19 04:27:39 <xelister> you can be perfectly happy, even more then usa here in pl
1510 2011-05-19 04:27:43 <jrmithdobbs> us doesn't allow dual citizenship except for a few select countries. (canada and uk iirc, maybe a couple more)
1511 2011-05-19 04:27:50 <sethsethseth> what is the cost of performing large scale DoS attacks?
1512 2011-05-19 04:27:58 <xelister> with enough money to ignore corruption and all.  but its not like in russia
1513 2011-05-19 04:28:07 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: lol your coujntry is so gay
1514 2011-05-19 04:28:20 <jrmithdobbs> sethsethseth: free. piss off someone on irc and redirect your dns name once it starts.
1515 2011-05-19 04:28:29 <xelister> sethsethseth: say what?
1516 2011-05-19 04:28:43 <jrmithdobbs> sethsethseth: the wrong someone. obviously.
1517 2011-05-19 04:29:10 <ninjaneo> lol
1518 2011-05-19 04:29:17 <jrmithdobbs> quite serious
1519 2011-05-19 04:29:22 <jrmithdobbs> you wouldn't be the first to do it.
1520 2011-05-19 04:29:27 <sethsethseth> I mean if you wanted to pay someone who runs a botnet to do it
1521 2011-05-19 04:29:43 <jrmithdobbs> why bother when you can just piss them off instead and get it for free?!
1522 2011-05-19 04:29:49 <sethsethseth> lol
1523 2011-05-19 04:29:51 <ninjaneo> if you buy cloud computing you can get access to gigabit on a per minute basis
1524 2011-05-19 04:30:07 <erbs> floud conflutinG!
1525 2011-05-19 04:30:09 <jrmithdobbs> sethsethseth: very cheap is the answer
1526 2011-05-19 04:30:24 <jrmithdobbs> sethsethseth: especially considering the gains you're implying.
1527 2011-05-19 04:31:19 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, lol i uh have never done that illegal activity before
1528 2011-05-19 04:31:52 <ninjaneo> lol illegal activity
1529 2011-05-19 04:32:15 <ninjaneo> i dont think dos is even illegal, its just making more requests than your server/computer can handle
1530 2011-05-19 04:33:02 <erbs> doscossss
1531 2011-05-19 04:33:43 skeledrew has joined
1532 2011-05-19 04:33:49 <phantomcircuit> ninjaneo, it is, or at least that's how us courts have interpreted the law
1533 2011-05-19 04:33:50 <erbs> dostime
1534 2011-05-19 04:34:12 <ninjaneo> what the hell do they charge you with
1535 2011-05-19 04:34:29 <erbs> doj reports that 70% of fbi budget devoted to investigating alpaca sock-based fraud
1536 2011-05-19 04:34:33 <phantomcircuit> computer intrusion iirc
1537 2011-05-19 04:34:55 <ninjaneo> lol wtf
1538 2011-05-19 04:35:25 <ninjaneo> i dont see how dos classifies as unauthorized use, they need to recodify that shit
1539 2011-05-19 04:36:36 <phantomcircuit> ninjaneo, any logical reading of the statute doesn't include ddos
1540 2011-05-19 04:36:44 <phantomcircuit> however that's what they use and it sticks
1541 2011-05-19 04:38:31 eao has joined
1542 2011-05-19 04:38:34 <erbs> **VAGINA IS DELICIOUS**
1543 2011-05-19 04:40:01 <phantomcircuit> wat
1544 2011-05-19 04:40:36 <jrmithdobbs> ninjaneo: the statutes they use for any computer crimes make almost 0 sense in context
1545 2011-05-19 04:40:43 <jrmithdobbs> but they keep getting convictions anyways
1546 2011-05-19 04:41:07 <jrmithdobbs> see: weev and the at&t shenanigans
1547 2011-05-19 04:41:09 Crash has joined
1548 2011-05-19 04:41:15 <Crash> Good evening fellows.
1549 2011-05-19 04:41:16 <jrmithdobbs> (he pleaded out but w/e)
1550 2011-05-19 04:41:20 OxFFFEuck has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1551 2011-05-19 04:41:35 Crash is now known as Guest27171
1552 2011-05-19 04:41:37 <jrmithdobbs> they got charges based on unverified client-side irc logs.
1553 2011-05-19 04:42:20 JoeCoolDesk has joined
1554 2011-05-19 04:42:21 <jrmithdobbs> and charged him with unauthorized use for being an idiot on irc and accessing a publically available website
1555 2011-05-19 04:42:29 <JoeCoolDesk> Test
1556 2011-05-19 04:42:35 Guest27171 has quit (Client Quit)
1557 2011-05-19 04:42:36 <jrmithdobbs> (ps weev is a faggot and deserves what he gets)
1558 2011-05-19 04:42:49 <JoeCoolDesk> Why is weev a faggot?
1559 2011-05-19 04:42:56 <jrmithdobbs> you obviously do not know weev
1560 2011-05-19 04:43:03 <JoeCoolDesk> That's why I ask/
1561 2011-05-19 04:43:04 <jrmithdobbs> haha
1562 2011-05-19 04:43:11 <erbs> i really think the stuff theyre giving out as "vicodin" is really a placebo
1563 2011-05-19 04:43:34 <JoeCoolDesk> I could have sworn I heard about bitcoin in 2006 or 2007, but the wiki says it was concieved in 2009
1564 2011-05-19 04:43:41 <erbs> i remember back in the day vicodin worked.. i went to the dentist last week and got some, now it has no effect
1565 2011-05-19 04:43:43 <JoeCoolDesk> So what might I have heard about?
1566 2011-05-19 04:43:57 oneman has joined
1567 2011-05-19 04:44:00 <oneman> hullo
1568 2011-05-19 04:44:01 <jrmithdobbs> JoeCoolDesk: you read gibson's trash novels i assume
1569 2011-05-19 04:44:18 <jrmithdobbs> i'm sorry, cyberpunk, aka trash novels
1570 2011-05-19 04:45:12 rtulio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1571 2011-05-19 04:45:27 ninjaneo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1572 2011-05-19 04:45:29 <JoeCoolDesk> No, I read &T
1573 2011-05-19 04:45:56 <JoeCoolDesk> When I was getting into freenet and crazy get rich quick schemes.
1574 2011-05-19 04:46:11 <JoeCoolDesk> Pretty sure a bitcoin like service was involved.
1575 2011-05-19 04:46:26 <jrmithdobbs> nope
1576 2011-05-19 04:46:35 <jrmithdobbs> it's a fairly unique concept
1577 2011-05-19 04:46:49 <JoeCoolDesk> Are people just investing in BTC hoping to get a payoff or are people here actively developing it into their payment processes?
1578 2011-05-19 04:46:51 <noagendamarket> you probably heard about digicash
1579 2011-05-19 04:47:16 <jrmithdobbs> or maybe egold
1580 2011-05-19 04:47:20 <noagendamarket> or egold ,beanz,flooz,
1581 2011-05-19 04:47:21 <jrmithdobbs> but neither are anything like btc
1582 2011-05-19 04:47:40 <noagendamarket> they are all issued by a central company
1583 2011-05-19 04:50:00 Netsniper has joined
1584 2011-05-19 04:50:36 OxFFFEuck has joined
1585 2011-05-19 04:50:36 vorlov has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1586 2011-05-19 04:51:25 ar4s has joined
1587 2011-05-19 04:51:45 <JoeCoolDesk> Might have been egold
1588 2011-05-19 04:51:55 <JoeCoolDesk> Something about being able to order free pizza or condoms or something.
1589 2011-05-19 04:52:10 <jrmithdobbs> by which you of course mean drugs
1590 2011-05-19 04:52:23 <jrmithdobbs> because that's about all any of that was ever used for
1591 2011-05-19 04:52:23 <Juffo-Wup> pizza, condoms, what else does one really need?
1592 2011-05-19 04:52:26 <Juffo-Wup> oh yeah drugs of course
1593 2011-05-19 04:52:37 <JoeCoolDesk> No, I mean gift cards
1594 2011-05-19 04:52:38 <Juffo-Wup> also people with whom to use the condoms
1595 2011-05-19 04:52:44 <JoeCoolDesk> Like Xcox live
1596 2011-05-19 04:53:13 <JoeCoolDesk> There was some weird process where you went through 5 different services.
1597 2011-05-19 04:53:39 <jrmithdobbs> sounds like egold ya
1598 2011-05-19 04:53:52 <jrmithdobbs> or liberty reserve for that matter, which is basically egold mkII
1599 2011-05-19 04:57:34 Nicksasa has joined
1600 2011-05-19 04:57:56 <erbs> sharkowl
1601 2011-05-19 04:58:06 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1602 2011-05-19 04:58:09 Nicksasa-Sleep has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1603 2011-05-19 04:58:25 Nicksasa has joined
1604 2011-05-19 05:02:06 <sacarlson> if you add more than one node with addnode=192.168.2.250,....   what do you use to separate the others or can you even add more than one with addnode?
1605 2011-05-19 05:03:58 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: multiple -addnode= options
1606 2011-05-19 05:04:36 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: oh ok, so same in config then just add more lines of addnode?
1607 2011-05-19 05:04:41 <JoeCoolDesk> Are people just investing in BTC hoping to get a payoff or are people here actively developing it into their payment processes?
1608 2011-05-19 05:04:59 <JoeCoolDesk> Someone's made at least 100,000 dollars.
1609 2011-05-19 05:05:20 <wumpus> sacarlson: yes
1610 2011-05-19 05:05:28 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: personaly I think it would be cool for poker
1611 2011-05-19 05:05:35 <sacarlson> wumpus: cool thanks
1612 2011-05-19 05:06:50 <sacarlson> wumpus: cool that worked
1613 2011-05-19 05:06:58 <wumpus> JoeCoolDesk: you'll find both kinds of people 
1614 2011-05-19 05:07:13 <erbs> towels
1615 2011-05-19 05:07:14 <JoeCoolDesk> OK but who here is which?
1616 2011-05-19 05:07:41 <wumpus> well as this is the developer channel, I guess we do more than wait around here :)
1617 2011-05-19 05:08:16 <JoeCoolDesk> What are you guys working on specicially?
1618 2011-05-19 05:09:44 jp_larocque has joined
1619 2011-05-19 05:10:00 <erbs> work sux
1620 2011-05-19 05:10:06 <erbs> now im unemployed
1621 2011-05-19 05:10:14 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: at the moment I'm tring to get a multi crypto chain client to run on windows
1622 2011-05-19 05:10:21 <wumpus> bitcoin-qt
1623 2011-05-19 05:10:42 <JoeCoolDesk> Any BTC day traders?
1624 2011-05-19 05:11:33 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: I traded one time on mtgox with buy 1 btc at 0.75 and sold at 1.23  end of my play in day trading
1625 2011-05-19 05:11:52 <Namegduf> I'm just crunching bitcoins because I'm bored.
1626 2011-05-19 05:11:53 dynamitedane has joined
1627 2011-05-19 05:12:00 <Namegduf> Also I found out my old 55 BTC have value now
1628 2011-05-19 05:12:03 <Namegduf> And am now interested
1629 2011-05-19 05:12:04 <jp_larocque> What's the accepted way to get raw Bitcoin block data, like that published at http://blockexplorer.com/q/nethash?  Run a patched or forked Bitcoin client?
1630 2011-05-19 05:12:12 <Namegduf> Decided to gamble $300 on seeing what the market does
1631 2011-05-19 05:12:15 <jp_larocque> Assuming I'm paranoid enough to not want to trust a third-party web service.
1632 2011-05-19 05:13:03 <sacarlson> jp_larocque: I asked him but he said his code wasn't open source
1633 2011-05-19 05:13:13 <wumpus> JoeCoolDesk: most of them are in #bitcoin-otc
1634 2011-05-19 05:13:28 wolfspraul has joined
1635 2011-05-19 05:14:01 <jp_larocque> I see references in the wiki and IRC logs to mystery RPC commands like "getblockbycount" and "dumpblock".
1636 2011-05-19 05:14:18 <dynamitedane> hi can anyone help me with scoping a mining rig?
1637 2011-05-19 05:14:23 <JoeCoolDesk> I have a PHP interface set up.
1638 2011-05-19 05:14:26 <jp_larocque> Since the commands aren't top-seekrit I'm hoping there must be a public fork that implements these interfaces.
1639 2011-05-19 05:14:31 <JoeCoolDesk> Anyone work with that?
1640 2011-05-19 05:14:41 <wumpus> jp_larocque: didn't make it into the baseline version yet
1641 2011-05-19 05:15:25 <jp_larocque> wumpus: Do you know of a public patch?
1642 2011-05-19 05:15:31 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: yes I have created an exchange in php
1643 2011-05-19 05:15:55 <JoeCoolDesk> What kind of capital do you need for exchange?
1644 2011-05-19 05:15:57 <wumpus> jp_larocque: I'm pretty sure there is one, either as pull request on github or on the forum
1645 2011-05-19 05:16:33 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: capital?  it trades usd, thai bhat, Weeds, btc
1646 2011-05-19 05:16:57 <jp_larocque> Alright, I'll keep looking.  Thanks for the pointers.
1647 2011-05-19 05:17:07 <dynamitedane> is there a specific mining chat room?
1648 2011-05-19 05:17:14 <wumpus> jp_larocque: there's also sgornick's python bitcoin utils which you can use to dig into the data files
1649 2011-05-19 05:17:33 <wumpus> jp_larocque: works outside the client
1650 2011-05-19 05:17:51 <erbs> im mining vag
1651 2011-05-19 05:18:21 <jp_larocque> That sounds interesting, but like it could be painful, periodically stopping the client to copy the safely data files.
1652 2011-05-19 05:18:38 <JoeCoolDesk> scarlson, you're going to need some capital to buy someone's BTC, right?
1653 2011-05-19 05:18:57 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: I have 10 million weeds
1654 2011-05-19 05:19:07 <JoeCoolDesk> Weeds refers to?
1655 2011-05-19 05:19:18 <wumpus> jp_larocque: yeah, depends on what you're doing...
1656 2011-05-19 05:19:51 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: weeds is another cyrpto currency with trust based capital
1657 2011-05-19 05:20:11 <jp_larocque> It wouldn't kill me to stop the client, I'd only need the raw data periodically and manually.
1658 2011-05-19 05:20:23 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: it's only experimental at this time
1659 2011-05-19 05:20:32 <JoeCoolDesk> You trade for profit?
1660 2011-05-19 05:20:49 <jp_larocque> Trying my hand at analysis and forecasting of things like hash rate and difficulty.
1661 2011-05-19 05:20:55 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: who me?  I'm not a trader
1662 2011-05-19 05:21:05 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: I'm a poker player
1663 2011-05-19 05:21:08 mtrlt has joined
1664 2011-05-19 05:21:23 <JoeCoolDesk> I only found one BTC poker site and it requires sign up
1665 2011-05-19 05:21:41 <JoeCoolDesk> Can you get shut down, fined, sued or arrested for hosting a BTC site like a poker site?
1666 2011-05-19 05:22:18 <sacarlson> well my windows version is mostly broken but it just got it's first 1.234 Weeds transaction confirmed
1667 2011-05-19 05:22:39 <jp_larocque> JoeCoolDesk: Is it illegal in your jurisdiction?  Will you get caught?
1668 2011-05-19 05:22:39 <sacarlson> did I tell you that windows sucks
1669 2011-05-19 05:24:01 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1670 2011-05-19 05:24:09 <JoeCoolDesk> I live in the US
1671 2011-05-19 05:24:11 <JoeCoolDesk> So maybe
1672 2011-05-19 05:24:23 <JoeCoolDesk> Everything is illegal here, depending on if they want you in jail or not.
1673 2011-05-19 05:24:49 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: my hope is to create a p2p poker playing client based on a crypto currency with it's software base around pokerth
1674 2011-05-19 05:25:21 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: no site and free
1675 2011-05-19 05:25:44 <JoeCoolDesk> How far along are you?
1676 2011-05-19 05:26:44 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: not vary far I'm still working on the exchange part and need a windows based client to test the new network
1677 2011-05-19 05:27:04 <JoeCoolDesk> How does a p2p client get its first peers?
1678 2011-05-19 05:27:10 <JoeCoolDesk> Without a central server?
1679 2011-05-19 05:27:20 <metonymous_> guesses random IPs
1680 2011-05-19 05:27:26 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: same way as bitcoin it is bitcoin
1681 2011-05-19 05:27:37 <JoeCoolDesk> How does bitcoin do it?
1682 2011-05-19 05:27:43 <metonymous_> IRC
1683 2011-05-19 05:27:54 <JoeCoolDesk> So a central server then
1684 2011-05-19 05:28:00 <metonymous_> indubitably
1685 2011-05-19 05:28:01 <jp_larocque> So I found a patch that adds getblockbycount: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/patch.bitcoin-getblock
1686 2011-05-19 05:28:08 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: oh yes it has IRC and fall back to like 300 hardcoded address
1687 2011-05-19 05:28:39 <JoeCoolDesk> How about bittorrent?
1688 2011-05-19 05:29:03 <jp_larocque> Is it the case that if I have the history of block creation times, I can calculate the target value for each retargeting event, just as Bitcoin does?  Or is there more to it than that?
1689 2011-05-19 05:29:09 dynamitedane has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1690 2011-05-19 05:30:10 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: bittorrent starts from the base server were you get the torrent file and the torrent file contains a group of servers that support that torrent file
1691 2011-05-19 05:30:34 <JoeCoolDesk> Trackerless even?
1692 2011-05-19 05:30:40 Netsniper has joined
1693 2011-05-19 05:33:28 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: I thought torrents required trackers
1694 2011-05-19 05:33:30 <jp_larocque> Or I guess target is a function of difficulty.
1695 2011-05-19 05:33:58 <JoeCoolDesk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_hash_table
1696 2011-05-19 05:34:10 <JoeCoolDesk> I set up a bit torrent tracker on my server and this threw me off,.
1697 2011-05-19 05:34:30 <metonymous_> it still needs peers
1698 2011-05-19 05:34:40 <metonymous_> it then asks the "cloud" for stuff
1699 2011-05-19 05:34:50 <metonymous_> u have to bootstrap ur connections somehow
1700 2011-05-19 05:35:03 foobarbecue has joined
1701 2011-05-19 05:36:10 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3a3pre)
1702 2011-05-19 05:36:47 <erbs> DHTs are cool
1703 2011-05-19 05:37:39 <metonymous_> i know it's somewhat esoteric - but i'd love to integrate either W.A.S.T.E or a waste type system straight into the bitcoin client
1704 2011-05-19 05:37:48 <metonymous_> encrypted chat, encrypted file sharing
1705 2011-05-19 05:37:49 skeledrew has joined
1706 2011-05-19 05:37:53 <metonymous_> encrypted chatrooms
1707 2011-05-19 05:38:03 <erbs> cool
1708 2011-05-19 05:38:09 <jgarzik> jp_larocque: you want github/jgarzik/bitcoin.git#getblockbycount
1709 2011-05-19 05:38:15 <jgarzik> adds getblockbycount and getblockbyhash
1710 2011-05-19 05:38:27 <luke-jr> jgarzik: didn't you rename that to dumpblock?
1711 2011-05-19 05:38:37 <jgarzik> luke-jr: there is a variant with either name
1712 2011-05-19 05:38:44 larsivi has joined
1713 2011-05-19 05:40:58 <jp_larocque> jgarzik: Much obliged.
1714 2011-05-19 05:41:33 <erbs> The EU’s massive Project Indect, which we’ve discussed before, is going strong. Among other prerogatives, the initiative will require major telecomm companies to assist them in establishing automated data mining for mobiles, email, social networks, etc. If you send data to the EU, it’s going to get looked at by a computer, and if it sets off the wrong filter, a human will look at it
1715 2011-05-19 05:41:33 <erbs> too.
1716 2011-05-19 05:41:41 <erbs> http://singularityhub.com/2011/05/18/the-government-is-spying-on-you-through-facebook-right-now/
1717 2011-05-19 05:42:06 vorlov has joined
1718 2011-05-19 05:42:48 <bonsaikitten> so now everyone tries to do it
1719 2011-05-19 05:43:01 <bonsaikitten> i thought we condemned china for that ...
1720 2011-05-19 05:43:02 ThePing has joined
1721 2011-05-19 05:43:03 ThePing has left ()
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1723 2011-05-19 05:47:02 <wumpus> it's not like us europeans don't condemn such ideas, it just doesn't seem to help getting them out of the heads of the control obsessed people running the show
1724 2011-05-19 05:47:47 npouillard has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1725 2011-05-19 05:50:26 <wumpus> though  some draconian internet filtering proposal was rejected here in the Netherlands a short while ago, at least that's good news...
1726 2011-05-19 05:52:36 <erbs> george orwell was rite
1727 2011-05-19 05:54:16 <wumpus> yeah seems politicians are using 1984 as a script to implement instead of a warning of bad things
1728 2011-05-19 05:54:17 <erbs> /. has a new article about bitcoin
1729 2011-05-19 05:54:17 devon_hillard has joined
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1731 2011-05-19 05:54:17 devon_hillard has joined
1732 2011-05-19 05:55:21 <jgarzik> Please test: 0.3.22 release candidate: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8894.0
1733 2011-05-19 05:56:12 <Namegduf> A browser-based miner... sounds like an easy way to get random people to donate electricity for silly rewards.
1734 2011-05-19 05:56:21 <sacarlson> wow I just thought of another use for bitcoin software to create tickets as they do the same with bitcard so I can sell my services by selling people my cards that have the code they would use to deposit into my service,  again this would use a private chain
1735 2011-05-19 05:56:42 dissipate has joined
1736 2011-05-19 05:57:37 <sacarlson> they must already have stuf like this like spend once cards to fill phones
1737 2011-05-19 06:02:33 <metonymous_> heyo devs, i'm getting this bug https://forum.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4823.0 but with pushpool compilation
1738 2011-05-19 06:02:38 <metonymous_> i'm using git, yeah
1739 2011-05-19 06:02:47 <metonymous_> but i wanna know how to solve it, cos i've encountered it before
1740 2011-05-19 06:03:09 <metonymous_> "use the tarbal" makes me angry and i crush puny humans
1741 2011-05-19 06:03:12 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1743 2011-05-19 06:04:37 <devon_hillard> anyone selling legally questionable entertainment chemistry sets for bitcoin?
1744 2011-05-19 06:07:44 manifold_ has joined
1745 2011-05-19 06:07:51 <grbgout> devon_hillard: try -otc
1746 2011-05-19 06:08:42 <sacarlson> devon_hillard: nope your the first
1747 2011-05-19 06:09:23 <devon_hillard> :p
1748 2011-05-19 06:09:47 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1750 2011-05-19 06:10:27 Sedra has joined
1751 2011-05-19 06:11:29 foobarbecue has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1752 2011-05-19 06:12:48 <devrandom> hi BlueMatt
1753 2011-05-19 06:13:37 Sedra- has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1754 2011-05-19 06:13:41 <grbgout> devon_hillard: seriously, -otc is the "Over The Counter" market place for bitcoins.  #bitcoin-otc
1755 2011-05-19 06:13:50 Incitatus has joined
1756 2011-05-19 06:14:00 <grbgout> devon_hillard: someone in there might be selling what you want, there is a Chemistry PhD in there, iirc.
1757 2011-05-19 06:14:28 <devon_hillard> was just being euphemistic :p yes, I'm in otc
1758 2011-05-19 06:14:31 <metonymous_> cat devrandom | grbgout
1759 2011-05-19 06:15:13 <devrandom> :-D
1760 2011-05-19 06:15:37 <metonymous_> :)
1761 2011-05-19 06:15:48 Sedra- has joined
1762 2011-05-19 06:15:49 Sedra has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1763 2011-05-19 06:16:02 <grbgout> devon_hillard: then ask Glyph_Melancholi, I believe he's the chemist ;)
1764 2011-05-19 06:16:26 kseistrup has quit (Quit: BBL)
1765 2011-05-19 06:16:30 <grbgout> strip metonymous_ ; mount
1766 2011-05-19 06:17:14 <devon_hillard> what is the present computational power of the network?
1767 2011-05-19 06:17:21 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,help
1768 2011-05-19 06:17:21 <gribble> Alias bc,24hprc, Alias bc,avgprc, Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,btcguild, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,deepbit, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,eligius, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,fx, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,googlerate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,interval, Alias bc,lukepool, Alias bc,mtgox, Alias (1 more message)
1769 2011-05-19 06:17:53 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,estimate 65000
1770 2011-05-19 06:17:53 <gribble> 270821.41185442
1771 2011-05-19 06:18:19 manifold_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1772 2011-05-19 06:18:24  has joined
1773 2011-05-19 06:18:33 <metonymous_> umount devrandom # OH HELL NO
1774 2011-05-19 06:19:21 <devrandom> sha256sum devrandom | bitcoind > wallet.dat
1775 2011-05-19 06:19:38 <devon_hillard> 3 TH/s?
1776 2011-05-19 06:19:49 <mtrlt> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ look there.
1777 2011-05-19 06:20:46 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1778 2011-05-19 06:22:57 slush1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1782 2011-05-19 06:30:13 <mtrlt> any ideas on how to test that my miner is working? i wanna make sure i have it working before i do more. it's getting 880khps so even testnet diff is high :/
1783 2011-05-19 06:31:31  is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-251-233-94.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
1784 2011-05-19 06:32:51 MartianW has joined
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1786 2011-05-19 06:34:33 Sedra has joined
1787 2011-05-19 06:34:35 <wumpus> mtrlt: you could try it on a pool and see if shares are accepted
1788 2011-05-19 06:35:13 <mtrlt> hm true. of course.
1789 2011-05-19 06:37:35 <mtrlt> lol, one share still takes 1.5h on average
1790 2011-05-19 06:37:59 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
1791 2011-05-19 06:38:01 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1792 2011-05-19 06:38:25 peck has joined
1793 2011-05-19 06:38:36 <mtrlt> but i have a 6-core.. waking up seems slow today :P
1794 2011-05-19 06:39:37 soossii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1796 2011-05-19 06:40:39 Tengo has left ("GOODBYE FACKING HACKER")
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1803 2011-05-19 06:50:43 <lfm> mtrlt: you should get more than 880 on a 6 core I think
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1807 2011-05-19 06:52:04 <lfm> mtrlt: or is it 880 per core?
1808 2011-05-19 06:52:05 <mtrlt> lfm: yea that value was for one core. and it's my very unoptimized miner :P
1809 2011-05-19 06:52:25 <lfm> oh, you dont care for cpuminer?
1810 2011-05-19 06:52:53 <mtrlt> i'm writing my own miner for fun
1811 2011-05-19 06:53:05 <lfm> oh ok, good luck
1812 2011-05-19 06:53:07 <mtrlt> cpuminer is like 3x faster
1813 2011-05-19 06:53:26 TheAncientGoat has joined
1814 2011-05-19 06:53:34 <lfm> mtrlt: ya it should be
1815 2011-05-19 06:53:38 ExtraSpice has joined
1816 2011-05-19 06:57:00 oneman has joined
1817 2011-05-19 06:57:01 <oneman> hello
1818 2011-05-19 06:57:09 <oneman> any smart opencl folks here?
1819 2011-05-19 06:57:28 <oneman> im trying to figure out if I am doing something interesting or not
1820 2011-05-19 06:58:48 <oneman> ahh i just figured out im not
1821 2011-05-19 06:58:50 <oneman> atleast yet
1822 2011-05-19 06:59:19 <oneman> I actually got the intel opencl sdk going on ubuntu 11.4 here
1823 2011-05-19 06:59:25 Mad7Scientist has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1824 2011-05-19 06:59:33 <oneman> so I run poclbm
1825 2011-05-19 06:59:44 <oneman> it gets a bout 3.38mhash
1826 2011-05-19 06:59:50 <oneman> using all cores
1827 2011-05-19 07:00:08 <oneman> but the YAWN part of it all is that its not using the GPU of sandy bridge
1828 2011-05-19 07:00:13 <oneman> its just using SSE
1829 2011-05-19 07:00:31 <oneman> so the sse cpu miners obviosly whip it
1830 2011-05-19 07:00:40 Xunie` has joined
1831 2011-05-19 07:00:44 <oneman> but googling i find "intel doesn't comment" yadda yadda
1832 2011-05-19 07:00:51 ntosme2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1833 2011-05-19 07:00:56 <oneman> about opencl on the gpu portion of sandy bridge
1834 2011-05-19 07:01:07 <oneman> which I think might actually be very interesting
1835 2011-05-19 07:01:27 <oneman> because it should very pretty fast -relatively- and very low power usage
1836 2011-05-19 07:01:45 <oneman> and these sandy bridge cpus are going to be in every new computer out there
1837 2011-05-19 07:02:25 <oneman> the intel gfx driver is open source, but I have no conception what trouble it would be to get it to do opencl etc
1838 2011-05-19 07:03:03 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1843 2011-05-19 07:04:51 TD has joined
1844 2011-05-19 07:04:53 <wumpus> too much trouble, the embedded GPUs don't even compare to high end ATI cards, I wouldn't even know wether they support integer arithmetic
1845 2011-05-19 07:06:11 <oneman> yeah but its not that bad probably
1846 2011-05-19 07:06:18 <oneman> I am just talking to some intel guys now
1847 2011-05-19 07:06:31 <oneman> they say ivy bridge will be first with gpu opencl suppor
1848 2011-05-19 07:08:41 <oneman> i say pathetic!
1849 2011-05-19 07:08:58 sethsethseth has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1850 2011-05-19 07:09:14 <wumpus> yeah, opencl support, that's good
1851 2011-05-19 07:09:28  has joined
1852 2011-05-19 07:09:32 Xunie has joined
1853 2011-05-19 07:09:33 <wumpus> at least all GPU vendors will be supporting it then
1854 2011-05-19 07:09:47 sethsethseth has joined
1855 2011-05-19 07:09:48 <oneman> well intel supports it
1856 2011-05-19 07:10:07 <metonymous_> my onboard GPU supports CPU OpenCL ... it confused me lots
1857 2011-05-19 07:10:17 <oneman> just like those geforce fx 5200 can play crysis
1858 2011-05-19 07:10:21 <oneman> at 2fps
1859 2011-05-19 07:10:32 <oneman> intels opencl is using SSE
1860 2011-05-19 07:10:56 <wumpus> yes the current one is
1861 2011-05-19 07:10:58 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Florian Schmaus * r1e1376f5eed4 gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/ (5 files in 2 dirs): fixed fix_textrel patch for amd64 http://tinyurl.com/3gx2wzv
1862 2011-05-19 07:11:48 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1863 2011-05-19 07:12:07 <oneman> im trying to find out if it is possible in theory to do hardware opencl on Sandy bridge
1864 2011-05-19 07:12:16 blueadept has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1865 2011-05-19 07:12:17 <JoeCoolDesk> Why did my bitcoin address change?
1866 2011-05-19 07:12:49 <ne0futur> you can create new adresses
1867 2011-05-19 07:12:59 <JoeCoolDesk> How do I get all the addresses?
1868 2011-05-19 07:13:04 <ne0futur> you probably created a new adress without noticing, its too easy ;)
1869 2011-05-19 07:13:21 <ne0futur> theres a menu option with you list of adresses
1870 2011-05-19 07:13:29 <ne0futur> and you choose the current one
1871 2011-05-19 07:13:41 <ne0futur> just look at the menus
1872 2011-05-19 07:13:45 <ne0futur> thres not so many options
1873 2011-05-19 07:13:48 <JoeCoolDesk> I'm using the CLI
1874 2011-05-19 07:13:50 MartianW has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1875 2011-05-19 07:13:53 <JoeCoolDesk> JSON bridge
1876 2011-05-19 07:13:57 <ne0futur> oneman: i recommend not mining ;)
1877 2011-05-19 07:14:35 <ne0futur> and talking of mining on #bitcoin-mining :p
1878 2011-05-19 07:15:08 <ne0futur> JoeCoolDesk: for help with official software, better ask on #bitcoin or #bitcoin-dev
1879 2011-05-19 07:15:17 <oneman> im not talking about mining
1880 2011-05-19 07:15:22 <oneman> in that sense
1881 2011-05-19 07:15:25 <JoeCoolDesk> I AM on bitcoin dev.
1882 2011-05-19 07:15:26 <oneman> talking about development
1883 2011-05-19 07:15:43 <JoeCoolDesk> Look at the title
1884 2011-05-19 07:15:48 <ne0futur> " hardware opencl on Sandy bridge"
1885 2011-05-19 07:15:55 <ne0futur> its not for mining  ?
1886 2011-05-19 07:16:09 <oneman> is mining software development talk now allowed here?
1887 2011-05-19 07:16:13 <ne0futur> i dont even know what is Sandy bridge  ;)
1888 2011-05-19 07:16:23 <ne0futur> i dunno
1889 2011-05-19 07:16:29 <JoeCoolDesk> Sandy bridge is a new set of Intel CPUs
1890 2011-05-19 07:16:30 <oneman> sandy bridge is the current series of intel cpu's
1891 2011-05-19 07:16:34 <ne0futur> but the topic of the channel is only spaking of trading
1892 2011-05-19 07:16:41 <wumpus> yes development talk is allowed
1893 2011-05-19 07:16:49 <oneman> they have GPU's in them, that are not to shabby
1894 2011-05-19 07:16:52 <JoeCoolDesk> ne0futur, you're in the wrong channel.
1895 2011-05-19 07:17:19 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1896 2011-05-19 07:17:20 <ne0futur> oups yup
1897 2011-05-19 07:17:22 <ne0futur> too tired
1898 2011-05-19 07:17:23 <ne0futur> sorry
1899 2011-05-19 07:17:34 <oneman> here is what I haev heard from intel folks ' SNB was not designed with opencl in mind' so they have no answer about if it is possible in theory
1900 2011-05-19 07:17:45 * ne0futur mutes
1901 2011-05-19 07:17:46 <oneman> but they do say ivy will have it
1902 2011-05-19 07:17:51 <oneman> so case closed for now i guess
1903 2011-05-19 07:18:05 subimage has joined
1904 2011-05-19 07:18:18 <subimage> anyone know much about clc and compliation errors on poclbm?
1905 2011-05-19 07:18:45 <ne0futur> http://www.google.com/trends?q=bitcoin ;))
1906 2011-05-19 07:18:52 <ne0futur> good night all
1907 2011-05-19 07:19:23 <subimage> i'm getting RuntimeError: clBuildProgram failed: build program failure on poclbm
1908 2011-05-19 07:19:47 <subimage> and Internal error: Compilation failed. on DiabloMiner on Debian/ATI Radeon 5670
1909 2011-05-19 07:20:15 <subimage> been at this for a good 2 hours googling and reading forum posts
1910 2011-05-19 07:23:35 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1911 2011-05-19 07:23:47 <sacarlson> is there any postings about compiling bitcoin for windows under linux like ubuntu?
1912 2011-05-19 07:24:09 <sacarlson> xcompiler I guess with mingw
1913 2011-05-19 07:25:14 <JoeCoolDesk> What's the command to view all accounts?
1914 2011-05-19 07:25:22 <metonymous_> bitcoind help
1915 2011-05-19 07:26:01 <JoeCoolDesk> You sure are helpful.
1916 2011-05-19 07:26:10 <metonymous_> i do my best
1917 2011-05-19 07:26:23 <metonymous_> teach a man to fish
1918 2011-05-19 07:26:43 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
1919 2011-05-19 07:27:03 <JoeCoolDesk> Be nice if I can get A bitcoin
1920 2011-05-19 07:27:21 <JoeCoolDesk> Or at least get rid of that 0.01 coin transfer fee.
1921 2011-05-19 07:27:32 <JoeCoolDesk> So I can test by myself
1922 2011-05-19 07:28:02 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: there is -testnet if you want to play for free
1923 2011-05-19 07:28:12 <JoeCoolDesk> How's that work differently
1924 2011-05-19 07:28:13 <JoeCoolDesk> ?
1925 2011-05-19 07:28:48 <sacarlson> JoeCoolDesk: it's another crypto chain that you can get free coins from faucet
1926 2011-05-19 07:28:52 <metonymous_> different blockchain
1927 2011-05-19 07:29:00  is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@76.240.194.253|Netsniper
1928 2011-05-19 07:29:17 <JoeCoolDesk> Just run that when starting up the client?
1929 2011-05-19 07:29:25 <JoeCoolDesk> I mean pass that as an arugment?
1930 2011-05-19 07:29:39 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1931 2011-05-19 07:30:31 <sacarlson> are a majority of the users of bitcoin running linux versions?
1932 2011-05-19 07:30:56 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Florian Schmaus * r78f125c9935f gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/ (Manifest bitcoin-0.3.21_rc.ebuild): fixed texrel in rc ebuild also http://tinyurl.com/6g6gfwb
1933 2011-05-19 07:31:16 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1934 2011-05-19 07:31:22 <subimage> sacarlson: i think most are on windows
1935 2011-05-19 07:31:32 <subimage> i've got it running on win/mac/debian
1936 2011-05-19 07:31:43 <subimage> but i just swapped out my nvidia card for an ATI and now its giving me shit :p
1937 2011-05-19 07:31:46 <subimage> probably configured something wrong
1938 2011-05-19 07:33:15 <metonymous_> when compiling how does oen include a library from a non standard directory... hmmm
1939 2011-05-19 07:35:50  has joined
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1948 2011-05-19 07:48:48 <subimage> wow ok i figured out my problem
1949 2011-05-19 07:48:56 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
1950 2011-05-19 07:49:05 <subimage> i was using version 2.4 of the ATI STREAM SDK...and these guys want 2.1
1951 2011-05-19 07:49:08 <subimage> house of cards!
1952 2011-05-19 07:49:10 <subimage> :(
1953 2011-05-19 07:49:14 Moonies has joined
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1960 2011-05-19 07:52:51 <metonymous_> sipa: I got it to compile! :D
1961 2011-05-19 07:52:51 <metonymous_> hehehe
1962 2011-05-19 07:53:03 Schematografter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1963 2011-05-19 07:53:06 <metonymous_> osx pushpoold is proving to be more difficult :X
1964 2011-05-19 07:53:28 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1972 2011-05-19 07:57:09 Moonies has joined
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1974 2011-05-19 07:57:39 <lfm> metonymous_: -L /libdirpath -l lib name on gcc command line
1975 2011-05-19 07:57:54 Schematografter has joined
1976 2011-05-19 07:57:59 <metonymous_> capital L for path, sweeeeet thank you!
1977 2011-05-19 07:58:13 Schematografter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1978 2011-05-19 07:58:18 Moonies has joined
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1980 2011-05-19 07:58:50 <lfm> send tips to <Namegduf> You're just coming up with a list of changes for no reason
1981 2011-05-19 07:58:59 Moonies has joined
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1983 2011-05-19 07:59:26 <edcba> fuck /. again
1984 2011-05-19 07:59:34 <lfm> send tips to 12Pjj7LfvZGokhG6B4iBTarzwco17tNYZj
1985 2011-05-19 07:59:46 <metonymous_> lfm: u mean me yeh?
1986 2011-05-19 07:59:59 <lfm> edcba: whats /. saying now?
1987 2011-05-19 08:00:44 Moonies has joined
1988 2011-05-19 08:01:00 <lfm> ah! the browser miner scam
1989 2011-05-19 08:01:04 Moonies has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1998 2011-05-19 08:03:22 <metonymous_> scam ehhh?
1999 2011-05-19 08:03:25 smooth_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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2007 2011-05-19 08:07:59 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2012 2011-05-19 08:09:34 <lfm> scam in that you wont get much from it and there is potential for great malware strides
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2016 2011-05-19 08:11:56 underscor has joined
2017 2011-05-19 08:13:48 <edcba> ok minting from browser is great idea
2018 2011-05-19 08:14:12 <lfm> only uses one core
2019 2011-05-19 08:14:28 <lfm> and only uses cpu
2020 2011-05-19 08:14:41 <sethsethseth> my router guide says i must have a static ip to port forward.  can i still open 8333?
2021 2011-05-19 08:15:02 <lfm> sethsethseth: yes
2022 2011-05-19 08:15:23 <lfm> just you would need to restart bitcoin any time your ip address changes
2023 2011-05-19 08:15:59 <sethsethseth> ahh ok
2024 2011-05-19 08:16:50 <metonymous_> ?!
2025 2011-05-19 08:16:55 <metonymous_> dyndns ftw
2026 2011-05-19 08:17:46 <lfm> even with dyndns you would still need to restart your bitcoin any time your ip address changes
2027 2011-05-19 08:18:52 <metonymous_> ur local ip?
2028 2011-05-19 08:19:01 <lfm> ya
2029 2011-05-19 08:19:05 <metonymous_> i've found that not to be true... unless i don't understand ur situation
2030 2011-05-19 08:19:06 vikarti has joined
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2032 2011-05-19 08:19:43 <lfm> bitcoin doesnt really use dns at all
2033 2011-05-19 08:19:54 <metonymous_> true
2034 2011-05-19 08:20:05 <lfm> so dyndns wont help
2035 2011-05-19 08:20:09 <sethsethseth> what is a downside of having the port open like that
2036 2011-05-19 08:20:10 <metonymous_> i've never had to restart my clients, and my ip changes about once a day
2037 2011-05-19 08:20:19 <metonymous_> if bitcoin has a flaw
2038 2011-05-19 08:20:25 <metonymous_> people could compromise ur system
2039 2011-05-19 08:20:30 <metonymous_> ur denial of service u
2040 2011-05-19 08:20:35 <lfm> sethsethseth: if there is a security bug in bitcoin you could be exposing yourself
2041 2011-05-19 08:21:47 tauri has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2042 2011-05-19 08:22:26 blueadept has joined
2043 2011-05-19 08:23:05 <lfm> and it seems to me a program as complex as bitcoin almost certainly has security bugs
2044 2011-05-19 08:24:01 gjs278 has joined
2045 2011-05-19 08:24:20 <sethsethseth> so I opened the port, alloscomp says its open, but bitcoin still only 8 connections.  what do i check?
2046 2011-05-19 08:24:54 <lfm> sethsethseth: just leave it for a day or so and see if it is still 8 then
2047 2011-05-19 08:25:25 <sethsethseth> k
2048 2011-05-19 08:26:30 <edcba> just check with an online port scanner
2049 2011-05-19 08:26:48 <edcba> or just give your ip
2050 2011-05-19 08:27:22 <metonymous_> as nice as the people arond her are
2051 2011-05-19 08:27:25 <metonymous_> don't give ur ip
2052 2011-05-19 08:27:50 <lfm> my ip is in the bitcoin source code
2053 2011-05-19 08:27:57 <edcba> Nmap scan report for adsl-69-235-128-241.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net (69.235.128.241)
2054 2011-05-19 08:28:00 <edcba> Host is up (0.20s latency).
2055 2011-05-19 08:28:03 <edcba> PORT     STATE SERVICE
2056 2011-05-19 08:28:05 <edcba> 8333/tcp open  unknown
2057 2011-05-19 08:28:20 <edcba> now i didn't connect to see if it is really bitcoin running
2058 2011-05-19 08:28:55 <lfm> seems like a safe bet
2059 2011-05-19 08:29:35 Diablo-D3 has joined
2060 2011-05-19 08:29:38 <metonymous_> %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
2061 2011-05-19 08:29:38 <metonymous_> 1599.0  0.2  39:28.52 bitcoind
2062 2011-05-19 08:29:40 <metonymous_> yay cpus
2063 2011-05-19 08:29:54 <edcba> is the bitcoinplus.com guy is there ?
2064 2011-05-19 08:31:45 <xelister> edcba: bitcoin plus is the ghay idea of mining on CPU via JS?
2065 2011-05-19 08:31:53 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2066 2011-05-19 08:32:10 deroby has joined
2067 2011-05-19 08:32:13 <lfm> xelister: ya, and he is already on slashdot
2068 2011-05-19 08:33:36 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2069 2011-05-19 08:33:38 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.4498,"low":6.6,"vol":24187,"buy":7.0503,"sell":7.09,"last":7.0503}}
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2073 2011-05-19 08:34:43 <npouillard> I've read that 58XX and 59XX were "globally sold out", however there is still plenty of choice on amazon for instance. Any idea?
2074 2011-05-19 08:35:00 Moonies has joined
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2076 2011-05-19 08:35:23 <lfm> npouillard: ya, they say that to get you to buy 6xxx
2077 2011-05-19 08:35:43 <metonymous_> there are 5850s in australia left
2078 2011-05-19 08:35:49 <metonymous_> for a fee i could get u one
2079 2011-05-19 08:36:03 <deroby> hi there... anyone can point me to the windows client help ? I was mostly wondering how (if) I can change the language, but I'm guessing I simply should delete all but the en locale ?
2080 2011-05-19 08:36:04 <lfm> I dont think they are making 58xx or 59xx any more tho
2081 2011-05-19 08:36:10 <sethsethseth> how large does teh bitcoin network have to get to prevent ddos all the nodes
2082 2011-05-19 08:36:22 <lfm> sethsethseth: it cant
2083 2011-05-19 08:36:40 <npouillard> lfm: Yes I've read that too
2084 2011-05-19 08:36:58 <sethsethseth> how is this not a major problem?
2085 2011-05-19 08:37:08 <lfm> but it seems they stall make 57xx
2086 2011-05-19 08:37:25 <lfm> sethsethseth: ddos is a major problem.
2087 2011-05-19 08:37:34 <deroby> apart from that, does 'restarting' the app cause me to 'lose' work ? (it's not taking a lot of cpu, well, nothing in fact... it did a LOT of I/O but after loading about 21020 blocks it's now "silent")
2088 2011-05-19 08:37:34 <edcba> sethsethseth: the problem is all nodes receive everything
2089 2011-05-19 08:37:37 <lfm> not just for bitcoin
2090 2011-05-19 08:37:48 <npouillard> BTW any advises on bad/good card brands for 58XX, 59XX?
2091 2011-05-19 08:37:50 <edcba> so it's not a size problem
2092 2011-05-19 08:38:48 <metonymous_> how much were 5870's going for in the US
2093 2011-05-19 08:38:51 <lfm> deroby: no, restarting the app does not cause you to lose work. stopping the app causes you to lose work, restarting just starts a new block, just like the miner does every 0.00001 seconds or so
2094 2011-05-19 08:39:05 Keefe has joined
2095 2011-05-19 08:39:32 <sethsethseth> oh you mean flooding the network with microtx?
2096 2011-05-19 08:39:35 <lfm> deroby: you only lose the time you are down, no more
2097 2011-05-19 08:39:41 <deroby> @lfm : ah, thx... and what amount of blocks can I expect to 'get' over time ? (my disk isn't quite full yet, but space is at a premium on this laptop =)
2098 2011-05-19 08:40:08 <lfm> deroby: what khash/sec rating do you have?
2099 2011-05-19 08:40:12 gsathya has joined
2100 2011-05-19 08:40:37 <lfm> deroby: you get about 6 blocks per hour
2101 2011-05-19 08:40:47 underscor has joined
2102 2011-05-19 08:41:28 <lfm> deroby: you could run bitcoin on an external usb drive
2103 2011-05-19 08:42:31 larsivi has joined
2104 2011-05-19 08:42:39 <lfm> deroby: even a thumb drive, like 1gb should be good for years yet
2105 2011-05-19 08:42:40 <npouillard> MSI, XFX, Sapphire, Diamond, ASUS, VisionTek?
2106 2011-05-19 08:42:58 <lfm> npouillard: what about em?
2107 2011-05-19 08:43:27 Nesetalis is now known as Nes-asleep
2108 2011-05-19 08:44:07 <metonymous_> oh hell yeah! I just mined two blocks within 20 minutes of each other, gotta love probability :P
2109 2011-05-19 08:44:32 <deroby> @lfm : Hmm, not a clue, where do I find that rating ? I only just started using the client, read the faq and some wikis, but it seems everything is mostly geared towards linux ... (not that I'm complaining about that, it's just that I'm on windows today =)
2110 2011-05-19 08:45:26 <lfm> deroby: ya, linux is good. bitcoin mostly works the same on mswin
2111 2011-05-19 08:45:35 <Diablo-D3> http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/WLnq57c9Sos/Mint-It-Yourself-With-a-Browser-Based-Bitcoin-Miner
2112 2011-05-19 08:45:39 <Diablo-D3> what in holy fuck people
2113 2011-05-19 08:45:59 <lfm> Diablo-D3: like you think I could have stopped them?
2114 2011-05-19 08:46:19 <Diablo-D3> but how the fuck do you mint in  abrowser?
2115 2011-05-19 08:46:30 <deroby> I probably should let it run for couple of hours and then see ? BTW : That article got me checking out Bitcoin ... I'm just not sure a browser based client is the most efficient =)
2116 2011-05-19 08:46:37 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2117 2011-05-19 08:46:40 <Diablo-D3> deroby: you cant gpu minew ith it
2118 2011-05-19 08:46:43 <metonymous_> what's stopping us yahnking the applet and making competition :(
2119 2011-05-19 08:46:49 <Diablo-D3> and its about 50 times slower than the fastest cpu miner
2120 2011-05-19 08:46:59 <metonymous_> i call it the "long tail
2121 2011-05-19 08:47:02 <Diablo-D3> also is it a java applet?
2122 2011-05-19 08:47:03 <metonymous_> of mining
2123 2011-05-19 08:47:06 <metonymous_> yes
2124 2011-05-19 08:47:10 <Diablo-D3> because I probably can have it taken down as a GPLv3 violation
2125 2011-05-19 08:47:13 <Diablo-D3> and I probably will
2126 2011-05-19 08:47:18 <metonymous_> yay!
2127 2011-05-19 08:47:21 <metonymous_> who are you Diablo-D3
2128 2011-05-19 08:47:21 <lfm> Diablo-D3: only uses one core I think too
2129 2011-05-19 08:47:28 <metonymous_> to wield so much power
2130 2011-05-19 08:47:28 <Diablo-D3> metonymous_: author of DiabloMiner
2131 2011-05-19 08:47:38 <Diablo-D3> the most used gpu miner thats written in java
2132 2011-05-19 08:47:45 gjs278 has joined
2133 2011-05-19 08:47:52 <metonymous_> he could be using the google java
2134 2011-05-19 08:47:55 <metonymous_> client
2135 2011-05-19 08:47:56 <metonymous_> code
2136 2011-05-19 08:48:00 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt mine
2137 2011-05-19 08:48:06 <metonymous_> re-he-heally
2138 2011-05-19 08:48:25 <metonymous_> i can reverse compile the applet
2139 2011-05-19 08:48:30 <metonymous_> done that sorta thing before
2140 2011-05-19 08:48:33 <Diablo-D3> does the applet use opencl?
2141 2011-05-19 08:48:47 <metonymous_> no
2142 2011-05-19 08:48:47 <metonymous_> cpu atm
2143 2011-05-19 08:48:47 <metonymous_> um
2144 2011-05-19 08:48:47 <metonymous_> u mean cpu opencl?
2145 2011-05-19 08:48:49 <metonymous_> i asked him taht in the forum
2146 2011-05-19 08:48:50 <lfm> Diablo-D3: just cpu mining I think
2147 2011-05-19 08:48:53 <metonymous_> u should check the forum
2148 2011-05-19 08:48:59 <molecular> metonymous_, what google applet???
2149 2011-05-19 08:49:13 <molecular> metonymous_, you mean bitcoinj?
2150 2011-05-19 08:49:21 <metonymous_> yeh, i did
2151 2011-05-19 08:49:22 <doublec> someone should do a JS OpenCL miner using Nokia's WebCL plugin
2152 2011-05-19 08:49:31 <metonymous_> molecular: apparently it doesn't mine
2153 2011-05-19 08:49:32 <doublec> http://webcl.nokiaresearch.com/
2154 2011-05-19 08:49:43 <molecular> metonymous_, of course not, it's only wallet and network stuff
2155 2011-05-19 08:49:46 <npouillard> lfm: I would like to know if some of them are to avoid (fans, quality...)
2156 2011-05-19 08:49:59 <Diablo-D3> doublec: not particularly interested
2157 2011-05-19 08:50:01 <Diablo-D3> lfm: oh, then its not mine
2158 2011-05-19 08:50:08 <Diablo-D3> metonymous_: no, you cant run opencl on a cpu
2159 2011-05-19 08:50:13 <molecular> metonymous_, you don't have to reverse engineer anything, though, since it's opensource (apache license)
2160 2011-05-19 08:50:15 <metonymous_> Diablo-D3: wrong
2161 2011-05-19 08:50:20 <metonymous_> u CAN i and i do
2162 2011-05-19 08:50:23 <metonymous_> it's just slow
2163 2011-05-19 08:50:27 <Diablo-D3> well yes, if you want it 20 times slower
2164 2011-05-19 08:50:30 <[Tycho]> Oh...
2165 2011-05-19 08:50:33 <[Tycho]> "how often those difficulty jumps will be, any ideas? It is very unconfortable, and it is getting almost non effective :( Any chance to avoid these jums?"
2166 2011-05-19 08:50:35 <Diablo-D3> and only amd stream sdk offers it on x86
2167 2011-05-19 08:50:36 <Diablo-D3> nvidia doesnt
2168 2011-05-19 08:50:45 <metonymous_> yeh, that's what i'm doing
2169 2011-05-19 08:50:59 <Diablo-D3> also, which apache? aslv2?
2170 2011-05-19 08:51:24 <molecular> [Tycho], who asked that question? some newby from the slashdot/reddit/boingboing hype?
2171 2011-05-19 08:51:30 <lfm> npouillard: I think XFX and visiontek are lesser quality but I am no expert
2172 2011-05-19 08:51:35 <diki> did someone just say boing?
2173 2011-05-19 08:51:43 <metonymous_> boring?
2174 2011-05-19 08:51:46 <[Tycho]> One of my users.
2175 2011-05-19 08:51:52 <metonymous_> b-oing, boing
2176 2011-05-19 08:51:57 <[Tycho]> Mining in browser is the future ! :)
2177 2011-05-19 08:52:03 <gjs278> visiontek cards are always more for some reason
2178 2011-05-19 08:52:05 <metonymous_> u could make a client
2179 2011-05-19 08:52:08 <metonymous_> work like omegle
2180 2011-05-19 08:52:11 <metonymous_> connect in the backend
2181 2011-05-19 08:52:14 Animazing has joined
2182 2011-05-19 08:52:15 <metonymous_> just don't close ur tab
2183 2011-05-19 08:52:17 <metonymous_> or use google gears
2184 2011-05-19 08:52:18 <lfm> [Tycho]: dificulty jump are every 2016 blocks
2185 2011-05-19 08:52:20 <metonymous_> to store ur wallet
2186 2011-05-19 08:52:21 <[Tycho]> Yesterday I found a COMPLETE linux emulation entirely in JavaScript.
2187 2011-05-19 08:52:25 <Diablo-D3> xfx and visiontek suck ass, btw
2188 2011-05-19 08:52:34 <metonymous_> emulation?
2189 2011-05-19 08:52:35 <Diablo-D3> [04:45:40] <metonymous_> b-oing, boing
2190 2011-05-19 08:52:35 <molecular> lfm, I think [Tycho] knows this
2191 2011-05-19 08:52:37 <Diablo-D3> boingboing!
2192 2011-05-19 08:52:43 <metonymous_> hehe :D
2193 2011-05-19 08:52:47 <diki> Since boing brings back memories
2194 2011-05-19 08:52:47 <diki> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yLeA-C5pBw
2195 2011-05-19 08:52:57 <lfm> molecular: well he asked
2196 2011-05-19 08:53:01 <molecular> lfm, see the quotation marks
2197 2011-05-19 08:53:17 <molecular> lfm, now he didn't. he quoted someone, but anyways, good answer ;)
2198 2011-05-19 08:53:18 gribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2199 2011-05-19 08:53:19 <[Tycho]> metonymous_, yes, emulation.
2200 2011-05-19 08:53:26 <metonymous_> u found the video huzzah
2201 2011-05-19 08:53:34 <lfm> molecular: ya, I like answering sarcastic questions like they are serious
2202 2011-05-19 08:53:35 <metonymous_> at what level does it emulate?
2203 2011-05-19 08:53:38 <metonymous_> cpu instructions?
2204 2011-05-19 08:53:51 <[Tycho]> metonymous_, x86
2205 2011-05-19 08:54:02 <molecular> lfm, do you also anwser rethoric questions?
2206 2011-05-19 08:54:02 gribble has joined
2207 2011-05-19 08:54:03 <metonymous_> so it could emulate dos and stuff too right?
2208 2011-05-19 08:54:14 <[Tycho]> linux and stuff
2209 2011-05-19 08:54:30 <[Tycho]> It's specifically designed for it, i suppose.
2210 2011-05-19 08:54:37 <[Tycho]> Made my QEMU author.
2211 2011-05-19 08:54:39 <lfm> molecular: sometimes, like right now...
2212 2011-05-19 08:54:42 <metonymous_> that dude rocks
2213 2011-05-19 08:54:45 <molecular> lfm, lol
2214 2011-05-19 08:55:03 <doublec> metonymous_: details on how it works http://bellard.org/jslinux/tech.html
2215 2011-05-19 08:55:29 <metonymous_> pc emulator
2216 2011-05-19 08:55:33 <metonymous_> much sweetness
2217 2011-05-19 08:55:38 <[Tycho]> http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/linux/119424/
2218 2011-05-19 08:55:42 <Animazing> Quick question about the json-rpc API; Is it possible to edit address labels with it? Or specify a label on new address generation?
2219 2011-05-19 08:55:51 <lfm> x86 like 286 and 8086?
2220 2011-05-19 08:55:52 <diki> that emulator doesnt work with my browser tho...
2221 2011-05-19 08:56:01 <diki> i tested it a few days ago...
2222 2011-05-19 08:56:04 <diki> no go
2223 2011-05-19 08:56:11 <metonymous_> Animazing: uep, just put the address after the thingo
2224 2011-05-19 08:56:16 <metonymous_> name
2225 2011-05-19 08:56:18 <metonymous_> after the command
2226 2011-05-19 08:56:31 <metonymous_> think before u type :{
2227 2011-05-19 08:56:58 <lfm> Animazing: ya, you should be able to do anything you can do in "bitcoind help"
2228 2011-05-19 08:57:15 <Animazing> haha wow :)
2229 2011-05-19 08:57:18 <Animazing> that easy metonymous_
2230 2011-05-19 08:57:20 <Animazing> I wish I just tried that
2231 2011-05-19 08:57:24 <Animazing> Thanks
2232 2011-05-19 08:57:29 <metonymous_> yeh, i tried it on a whim, and yay!
2233 2011-05-19 08:57:47 <Animazing> Wiki doesn't talk about it though
2234 2011-05-19 08:58:00 <Animazing> Let's see if it will allow me to edit it
2235 2011-05-19 08:58:04 <lfm> Animazing: read the source
2236 2011-05-19 08:58:15 <diki> doesn't work...
2237 2011-05-19 08:58:36 <doublec> diki: the browser needs to support Type Arrays
2238 2011-05-19 08:58:42 <diki> Google Chrome 11?
2239 2011-05-19 08:58:43 <doublec> diki: and various other bleeding edge things
2240 2011-05-19 08:58:46 <Animazing> lfm: not sure I would understand it
2241 2011-05-19 08:58:57 <doublec> diki: it's supposed to work on Chrome 11
2242 2011-05-19 08:59:03 <lfm> Animazing: mostly C with some C++?
2243 2011-05-19 08:59:08 <Animazing> that's why :)
2244 2011-05-19 08:59:10 <doublec> diki: but not the Chrome 12 beta
2245 2011-05-19 08:59:13 <metonymous_> anyone compiled pushpoold on osx?
2246 2011-05-19 08:59:16 <Animazing> I only know higher level languages
2247 2011-05-19 08:59:20 <metonymous_> w00t ! it's emulating!
2248 2011-05-19 08:59:25 <lfm> Animazing: your loss
2249 2011-05-19 08:59:25 <metonymous_> time to install bitcoin :D
2250 2011-05-19 08:59:37 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2251 2011-05-19 08:59:38 <metonymous_> doop doobey do
2252 2011-05-19 08:59:46 <doublec> metonymous_: there's a hello.c in there. You can compile it with: tcc hello.c
2253 2011-05-19 08:59:47 <metonymous_> wish i could save the session
2254 2011-05-19 08:59:52 <metonymous_> ooh cool!
2255 2011-05-19 08:59:59 <diki> it works with one browser, but not another?
2256 2011-05-19 09:00:04 <diki> Fail...honestly fail
2257 2011-05-19 09:00:10 <diki> *another version
2258 2011-05-19 09:00:23 <lfm> Animazing: bitcoin is not really well documented yet, the source is still the primary refrence
2259 2011-05-19 09:00:26 galaxyAbstractor has joined
2260 2011-05-19 09:00:49 <Animazing> I will try and grab the source too
2261 2011-05-19 09:00:56 <Animazing> and see if I can add stuff to the wiki where possible
2262 2011-05-19 09:01:45 <joepie91> diki
2263 2011-05-19 09:01:51 <joepie91> afaik there is a known bug in Chrome 11
2264 2011-05-19 09:01:54 <joepie91> which is why it doesn't work
2265 2011-05-19 09:01:56 <lfm> diki: but is it fail of the app or fail of the browser(s)?
2266 2011-05-19 09:02:07 <metonymous_> can u get network connectivity in it?
2267 2011-05-19 09:02:17 <joepie91> oh wait, that was 12
2268 2011-05-19 09:02:18 <diki> Afaik, google chrome hasn't let me down ever
2269 2011-05-19 09:02:31 <joepie91> " It was tested with Firefox 4 and Google Chrome 11 on Linux, Window and Mac (it does not work with Chrome 12 beta. As far as I know, it is a bug in the browser). In any case, a fast Javascript engine is needed to have good performance."
2270 2011-05-19 09:02:31 <diki> it's blazing fast compared to the bloated firefox
2271 2011-05-19 09:02:46 <metonymous_> boo "There is no network emulation at this point."
2272 2011-05-19 09:03:09 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2273 2011-05-19 09:03:14 <joepie91> eh.
2274 2011-05-19 09:03:15 <joepie91> gribble gone.
2275 2011-05-19 09:03:17 <joepie91> :P
2276 2011-05-19 09:03:56 <diki> vacation
2277 2011-05-19 09:04:01 <diki> you triggered him too much
2278 2011-05-19 09:04:24 <diki> And he's probably singing Trololol by now
2279 2011-05-19 09:05:15 <doublec> diki: except 'bloated firefox' is twice as fast running that emulator as chrome
2280 2011-05-19 09:05:43 <joepie91> doublec: eh, certainly not the case here
2281 2011-05-19 09:05:43 <joepie91> lol
2282 2011-05-19 09:05:56 <doublec> "A troubling thing is that the PC emulator is about 2 times slower using V8 than Jaeger Monkey"
2283 2011-05-19 09:05:59 <doublec> from that tech page
2284 2011-05-19 09:06:01 <molecular> guys, consider someone is aware that sending tx without fee might take very long, he gets this in client: "This transaction is over the size limit.  You can still send it for a fee of 0.01, which goes to the nodes that process your transaction and helps to support the network.  Do you want to pay the fee?", but there's no way to actually send it without a fee (clicking "no" doesn't send). Is that intentional?
2285 2011-05-19 09:08:15 <molecular> also: setting a low free (0.0001) in options doesn't help this, should it not be possible to send 0.01 BTC with a fee of 0.0001?
2286 2011-05-19 09:09:13 <molecular> this could be very frustrating for people. I know 0.01 BTC is not much for most here... but for some, it is
2287 2011-05-19 09:09:46 <metonymous_> apparently it's to prevent filling up the blockchain with poitnelss transactions, but ur right, 0.01 btc isn't pointless for most users
2288 2011-05-19 09:10:01 <metonymous_> i don't know the logic specifically however
2289 2011-05-19 09:10:09 <lfm> molecular: ya, it is a problem. there does not seem to be a simple way out tho
2290 2011-05-19 09:10:10 <metonymous_> but i think if u did force it to be submitted
2291 2011-05-19 09:10:18 <metonymous_> u'd be ignored by most miiners
2292 2011-05-19 09:10:22 <molecular> why not, just make the suggested fee 0.0001 ?
2293 2011-05-19 09:10:28 <molecular> or 0.001
2294 2011-05-19 09:10:40 <metonymous_> 0.00004096
2295 2011-05-19 09:10:41 <lfm> just use an old version of bitcoin
2296 2011-05-19 09:10:58 <molecular> hahaa, tell that to someone checking out bitcoin
2297 2011-05-19 09:11:15 <molecular> what I did: hack the sources... tell that to a newbie
2298 2011-05-19 09:11:26 <metonymous_> and try and compile the fucker
2299 2011-05-19 09:11:37 <molecular> actually, up to this point, all non-free tx have gone through eventually
2300 2011-05-19 09:11:49 <lfm> molecular: ya, I'll keep that in mind for the next one who asks, prolly within a couple hoursa
2301 2011-05-19 09:12:42 <molecular> I probably shouldn't whine and just make a patch/pull req, but i'm sure there will be objections if I just change the suggested fee to 0.00004096
2302 2011-05-19 09:13:12 <metonymous_> i'll +1 it
2303 2011-05-19 09:13:16 zp has joined
2304 2011-05-19 09:13:19 <lfm> molecular: if you try to patch it you will be joining the patch war
2305 2011-05-19 09:13:22 <metonymous_> if it's good enough for luke-jr, it's good enough for me
2306 2011-05-19 09:13:26 <molecular> maybe I'll start an issue on githup
2307 2011-05-19 09:13:27 <metonymous_> i'll use your client
2308 2011-05-19 09:13:29 <metonymous_> i'll compile it for u
2309 2011-05-19 09:13:45 <molecular> I can compile no problem, I'm caring about the newbies, I want them to stay
2310 2011-05-19 09:13:50 <zp> Hi, I need to write a php function that would determine whether a transaction between 2 users in a certain block took place. Is there already something like this somewhere?
2311 2011-05-19 09:13:51 <metonymous_> here here
2312 2011-05-19 09:14:01 <lfm> molecular: no need to start a new issue, Im sure its already active in several existing issues
2313 2011-05-19 09:14:05 <metonymous_> block explorer?
2314 2011-05-19 09:14:22 <molecular> zp: try http-requesting http://blockexplorer.com/q/getreceivedbyaddress/<address>
2315 2011-05-19 09:14:42 <molecular> zp: if one of the addresses is in your bitcoin wallet, you can use rpc call. can give you code for that
2316 2011-05-19 09:15:09 <zp> is it php?
2317 2011-05-19 09:15:11 <molecular> zp, sorry, those answers where bullshit
2318 2011-05-19 09:15:24 <lfm> zp and btw, it wont tell you "users", only bitcoin addressses
2319 2011-05-19 09:15:30 <zp> ok
2320 2011-05-19 09:15:33 <molecular> yeah
2321 2011-05-19 09:15:38 <zp> addresses
2322 2011-05-19 09:15:42 <molecular> does it really have to be "in a certain block"?
2323 2011-05-19 09:15:49 <zp> no
2324 2011-05-19 09:16:12 <molecular> so you just want to know "whas there a tx form addr "A" to addr "B" at any time in the past" ?
2325 2011-05-19 09:16:14 <zp> I just want to check whether one address recieved from another certain amount
2326 2011-05-19 09:16:45 <lfm> zp often the "from" address is unpredictable
2327 2011-05-19 09:17:07 blueadept has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2328 2011-05-19 09:17:43 <zp> hmm... somebody who sent it can check the address?
2329 2011-05-19 09:17:51 <zp> (his own)
2330 2011-05-19 09:17:59 <lfm> just the "to" address and the amount should work so long as you use new addresses for each txn
2331 2011-05-19 09:18:13 AnatolV has quit ()
2332 2011-05-19 09:19:13 <molecular> zp, is the recipient address your own?
2333 2011-05-19 09:19:47 <zp> no...
2334 2011-05-19 09:19:58 <lfm> if you tell two people to pay the same amount to the same address and only one pays, you cannot really find out which one really paid.
2335 2011-05-19 09:20:07 <zp> but I know two "to" addresses
2336 2011-05-19 09:20:15 AnatolV has joined
2337 2011-05-19 09:20:50 <zp> can they choose their "from" address if they want?
2338 2011-05-19 09:21:00 <lfm> ya, now
2339 2011-05-19 09:21:11 <lfm> with newer versions of bitcoin
2340 2011-05-19 09:21:20 <zp> which one?
2341 2011-05-19 09:21:42 <zp> 0.3.21?
2342 2011-05-19 09:21:50 <lfm> not sure exactly when that was added
2343 2011-05-19 09:22:03 <zp> but in the last one it work?
2344 2011-05-19 09:22:14 <molecular> lfm, actually, I don't think there's an issue on that. search for "fee" in issues. you'll find the closed one that introduced the problem (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/88), while fixing a more important one, of course, but can you find an open issue where this is discussed?
2345 2011-05-19 09:22:25 <lfm> I have not tested it but it is supposed to work
2346 2011-05-19 09:22:59 <sethsethseth> how can i check how much bandwidth the bitcoin client and the miner use?
2347 2011-05-19 09:23:16 <molecular> zp, well, the info is certainly here: http://blockexplorer.com/address/1HT7jE1h496txKT8wZc29gBspmKKrcLabj, but that's not easily parsable
2348 2011-05-19 09:23:17 <metonymous_> lsof?
2349 2011-05-19 09:23:25 <zp> ?
2350 2011-05-19 09:23:25 <zp> is it possible in the latest version?
2351 2011-05-19 09:23:38 <lfm> sethsethseth: look at the size of blk0001.dat in your configdir and multiply by the number of connections
2352 2011-05-19 09:23:45 <molecular> zp, and I'm not sure you want to rely on blockexplorer
2353 2011-05-19 09:24:38 <lfm> sethsethseth: the miner depends which miner and which pool you are on
2354 2011-05-19 09:24:45 <molecular> zp, if it's "important" to you, I could code a patch that introduced new rpc call "moneyflowfromaddresstoaddress" for some btc ;)
2355 2011-05-19 09:25:03 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
2356 2011-05-19 09:25:25 <lfm> molecular: ask bluematt about that fee issue
2357 2011-05-19 09:25:48 <molecular> BlueMatt, consider someone is aware that sending tx without fee might take very long, he gets this in client: "This transaction is over the size limit.  You can still send it for a fee of 0.01, which goes to the nodes that process your transaction and helps to support the network.  Do you want to pay the fee?", but there's no way to actually send it without a fee (clicking "no" doesn't send). Is that intentional?
2358 2011-05-19 09:26:22 <xelister> 5970 is really wonderfull socket warmer
2359 2011-05-19 09:26:23 kom has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2360 2011-05-19 09:26:32 <metonymous_> kinky
2361 2011-05-19 09:26:41 <molecular> socket? or sock?
2362 2011-05-19 09:26:50 <xelister> socks
2363 2011-05-19 09:26:54 <eps1> what are people making of bitcoinplus?
2364 2011-05-19 09:27:05 <metonymous_> friends
2365 2011-05-19 09:27:07 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|BlueMatt,  fyi, traced my problem (btc on natty) to wxWidgets, svn trunk of today solved it.
2366 2011-05-19 09:27:10 <molecular> eps1, what's that, link?
2367 2011-05-19 09:27:16 <lfm> eps1: scam or nearly scam
2368 2011-05-19 09:27:20 <xelister> eps1: its bull, cpu mining (esp via browser) is like x200 slower then any modern (or last 1-2 years) gpu card
2369 2011-05-19 09:27:21 <eps1> http://www.bitcoinplus.com
2370 2011-05-19 09:27:26 <metonymous_> John S generated 0.00019867 BTC
2371 2011-05-19 09:27:30 <xelister> lfm: although, why do you call it scam
2372 2011-05-19 09:27:38 <metonymous_> alex S generated 0.00019867 BTC
2373 2011-05-19 09:27:51 <lfm> well maybe more accurate to call it ripoff
2374 2011-05-19 09:28:20 <molecular> well, is that supposed to be a pool?
2375 2011-05-19 09:28:32 <BlueMatt> Marcel|HSD: alright, damn Im looking into other problems as I dont really want to build a release from trunk...
2376 2011-05-19 09:28:35 <molecular> javascript miner?
2377 2011-05-19 09:28:45 <BlueMatt> Marcel|HSD: did you happen to try any previous trunks, or just today and 2.9.1?
2378 2011-05-19 09:28:59 <BlueMatt> molecular: no, its not...it really needs fixed
2379 2011-05-19 09:29:04 <BlueMatt> molecular: want to write a patch?
2380 2011-05-19 09:29:13 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|BlueMatt, tried 2.9.0 / 2.9.1 and trunk of today, only trunk worked
2381 2011-05-19 09:29:15 <molecular> BlueMatt, I'm not sure I'm up to that, but I can try
2382 2011-05-19 09:29:16 AnatolV has quit ()
2383 2011-05-19 09:29:31 <molecular> BlueMatt, what's the best solution, though, just lower the suggested fee?
2384 2011-05-19 09:29:39 <metonymous_> make it cancelable!
2385 2011-05-19 09:29:45 <metonymous_> or over-rideable
2386 2011-05-19 09:29:47 <molecular> cacelable it is
2387 2011-05-19 09:29:48 <metonymous_> in the gui
2388 2011-05-19 09:29:51 <molecular> right, overrideable
2389 2011-05-19 09:29:59 <metonymous_> set it to your own number
2390 2011-05-19 09:30:01 <metonymous_> perhaps
2391 2011-05-19 09:30:02 AnatolV has joined
2392 2011-05-19 09:30:02 <BlueMatt> Marcel|HSD: alright, if you have a bunch of time tracking down which commit fixed it would be useful
2393 2011-05-19 09:30:04 <metonymous_> default to 0.1
2394 2011-05-19 09:30:05 <metonymous_> or whatever
2395 2011-05-19 09:30:09 <molecular> actually, maybe it should use the fee set in options
2396 2011-05-19 09:30:12 <lfm> molecular: best would be allow an option to send free txn slowly
2397 2011-05-19 09:30:30 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|BlueMatt,  I will set aside some time for it and get back to you
2398 2011-05-19 09:30:34 <molecular> maybe that, and additionally maybe it should use the fee from options
2399 2011-05-19 09:30:45 <metonymous_> it does for other transactions
2400 2011-05-19 09:30:47 <metonymous_> but not those ones
2401 2011-05-19 09:30:50 <metonymous_> sux
2402 2011-05-19 09:30:56 <metonymous_> the deamon doesn't even warn u
2403 2011-05-19 09:31:00 <metonymous_> well.. how would it i geuss
2404 2011-05-19 09:31:04 <BlueMatt> molecular: overrideable, more clear explanation of what fee in options does (its per kb IIRC), custom fee setting...etc
2405 2011-05-19 09:31:21 <BlueMatt> yea daemon needs thought, it shouldnt automatically send
2406 2011-05-19 09:31:29 <BlueMatt> I suppose error then an override parameter?
2407 2011-05-19 09:31:36 <molecular> BlueMatt, "custom fee setting"? in the popup dialog?
2408 2011-05-19 09:31:43 <BlueMatt> molecular: something like that
2409 2011-05-19 09:31:50 <molecular> hmmk
2410 2011-05-19 09:31:52 <metonymous_> i sent two payments, one 0.5 one 0.2, the 0.5 one got lynched 0.1 fee, the 0.2 one got my standard 0.00004096, that's messed up
2411 2011-05-19 09:31:54 <molecular> I'll invest some time
2412 2011-05-19 09:32:06 <BlueMatt> but what the options one does needs rethought IMHO, it is confusing as it almost never gets used (rarely do txes hit 1 KB)
2413 2011-05-19 09:32:09 <metonymous_> no warning , nothing just did it
2414 2011-05-19 09:32:11 DrDeke has joined
2415 2011-05-19 09:32:37 <molecular> BlueMatt, well, when _is_ the fee from options used?
2416 2011-05-19 09:32:52 jivvz has joined
2417 2011-05-19 09:32:52 <metonymous_> when no other fee setting critereea are matched afaik
2418 2011-05-19 09:33:05 <metonymous_> it's the default fee, for a 'standard' transaction
2419 2011-05-19 09:33:20 <metonymous_> afaik
2420 2011-05-19 09:33:34 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2421 2011-05-19 09:33:48 gribble has joined
2422 2011-05-19 09:33:55 bombuzal has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2423 2011-05-19 09:34:11 <lfm> ya charging 0.01 when 0.00001 would suffice is messed up
2424 2011-05-19 09:34:33 nanotube has joined
2425 2011-05-19 09:34:36 rli has joined
2426 2011-05-19 09:34:36 sc8nt4u has joined
2427 2011-05-19 09:34:43 <zp> molecular: why shouldn't I rely on blockexplorer?
2428 2011-05-19 09:34:46 Juffo-Wup has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2429 2011-05-19 09:34:47 <BlueMatt> I might be wrong, but the fee in options is used per kb when a fee is needed, or applied one-off when the tx is low prio
2430 2011-05-19 09:35:08 <metonymous_> BlueMatt: if that's true, it should definitely say that somewhere
2431 2011-05-19 09:35:13 <BlueMatt> yep
2432 2011-05-19 09:35:21 <BlueMatt> fees just need to be clearer throughout really
2433 2011-05-19 09:35:26 <metonymous_> agreed
2434 2011-05-19 09:35:32 <BlueMatt> afk
2435 2011-05-19 09:35:42 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,calc 8000
2436 2011-05-19 09:35:54 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,gen 8000
2437 2011-05-19 09:36:09 <metonymous_> yay gribs is back
2438 2011-05-19 09:37:30 <zp> molecular: new rpc call "moneyflowfromaddresstoaddress" does it mean that bitcoind will run on the server and I'll be able to use it through php?
2439 2011-05-19 09:37:41 <molecular> yes
2440 2011-05-19 09:37:45 <UukGoblin> metonymous_, you mean 'back down'?
2441 2011-05-19 09:37:56 <molecular> zp, I'll give you an example of how to pull rpc stuff from php in a second
2442 2011-05-19 09:37:58 <metonymous_> lol aha
2443 2011-05-19 09:38:01 <metonymous_> he's alive, but dead
2444 2011-05-19 09:38:04 <metonymous_> a zombie, perchance
2445 2011-05-19 09:40:03 <zp> if somebody knows my "to" address does it mean he can see how much money I have?
2446 2011-05-19 09:40:19 <sipa> no
2447 2011-05-19 09:40:28 <sipa> but he does know how much money that address received
2448 2011-05-19 09:40:34 <zp> (by looking up all the txs to this address)?
2449 2011-05-19 09:40:36 <sipa> but you'll typically have tons of addresses
2450 2011-05-19 09:40:52 <zp> if I publish only one?
2451 2011-05-19 09:40:56 kom has joined
2452 2011-05-19 09:41:42 <molecular> zp, it's rather simple: http://pastebin.com/Sy1zsJXz
2453 2011-05-19 09:41:50 <molecular> zp, making rpc to bitcoin, I mean
2454 2011-05-19 09:41:51 <zp> thanks!
2455 2011-05-19 09:43:39 <zp> what is: user:pass in this case?
2456 2011-05-19 09:43:44 <zp> .htaccess?
2457 2011-05-19 09:43:48 <molecular> no
2458 2011-05-19 09:44:02 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2459 2011-05-19 09:44:02 <molecular> zp, the stuff you set in your bitcoin.conf for rpcuser and rpcpasswd
2460 2011-05-19 09:44:07 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2461 2011-05-19 09:44:10 <zp> ok
2462 2011-05-19 09:44:43 <molecular> also, of course, bitcoin_host is the host your bitcoin(d) runs on and the port default 8332 can also be changed in bitcoin.conf
2463 2011-05-19 09:44:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 8000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 4 years, 8 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 43 minutes, and 6 seconds
2464 2011-05-19 09:44:52 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 8000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 0.032959138737 BTC per day and 0.00137329744738 BTC per hour.
2465 2011-05-19 09:45:00 <molecular> good morning, gribble
2466 2011-05-19 09:45:23 <molecular> ^ UukGoblin your info ^
2467 2011-05-19 09:46:11 ejbvanc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2468 2011-05-19 09:46:15 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 800000
2469 2011-05-19 09:46:15 <molecular> zp, "rpcpassword", not "rpcpasswd"
2470 2011-05-19 09:46:20 <zp> "moneyflowfromaddresstoaddress" doesn't yet exist right?
2471 2011-05-19 09:46:24 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 3.2959138737 BTC per day and 0.137329744738 BTC per hour.
2472 2011-05-19 09:46:36 <JFK911> 244k
2473 2011-05-19 09:46:37 <molecular> zp, yes was offering to code that if you give me coins ;)
2474 2011-05-19 09:46:44 slush has joined
2475 2011-05-19 09:46:46 bombuzal has joined
2476 2011-05-19 09:47:18 <zp> my credit now is 0.04 :) probably not enough
2477 2011-05-19 09:49:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: ping
2478 2011-05-19 09:49:46 <zp> where can I add this as feature request for now?
2479 2011-05-19 09:49:53 x6763 has joined
2480 2011-05-19 09:50:00 <molecular> zp, maybe, but I don't want you to spend most of your money on that...
2481 2011-05-19 09:50:27 <molecular> zp, give me an address, you need more btc :)
2482 2011-05-19 09:51:09 <zp> 1NA4bWATRgxAW7mcsHZi4RFHLNqyDxLBoa
2483 2011-05-19 09:51:19 dude41 has joined
2484 2011-05-19 09:51:20 <zp> but the feature is more important :)
2485 2011-05-19 09:52:18 <molecular> well, you're probably the only one who needs that, so my motivation to do it is pretty low
2486 2011-05-19 09:52:31 <molecular> zp, what _are_ you trying to accomplish?
2487 2011-05-19 09:52:31 <ersi> Pirate Party Sweden ex. Leader on Bitcoin: http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/19/the-information-policy-case-for-flat-tax-and-basic-income/
2488 2011-05-19 09:52:45 <BlueMatt> why does it appear that I'm on sipa's ignore list?
2489 2011-05-19 09:53:57 <sipa> BlueMatt: sometimes i'm asleep :)
2490 2011-05-19 09:54:32 <bkraptor> are there any plans to make the main bitcoin app DPI-aware?
2491 2011-05-19 09:54:33 <BlueMatt> ah there you are...
2492 2011-05-19 09:55:08 <BlueMatt> is there someone on ubuntu 32-bit who can test 0.3.22 rc2?
2493 2011-05-19 09:55:22 <BlueMatt> sipa: I suppose you missed by comment last night...oh well 0.3.22 rc2 got posted anyway...
2494 2011-05-19 09:56:22 trekdanne has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2495 2011-05-19 09:56:32 <BlueMatt> nvm Im just being thick
2496 2011-05-19 09:56:57 <molecular> zp, doubles your btc-wealth... damnit, payed 0.01 fee to send 0.04. thats 25% fee... need to make that patch
2497 2011-05-19 09:57:07 OxFFFEuck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2498 2011-05-19 09:57:18 <dude41> anyone selling at 8.5ppusd
2499 2011-05-19 09:57:24 hyperjacker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2500 2011-05-19 09:57:37 <zp> :)
2501 2011-05-19 09:57:47 OxFFFEuck has joined
2502 2011-05-19 09:58:05 <BlueMatt> dude41: #bitcoin-otc but you realize that is way over market price?
2503 2011-05-19 09:58:22 <dude41> thanks
2504 2011-05-19 09:58:37 <molecular> dude41, ask in #bitcoin-otc
2505 2011-05-19 09:59:01 <dude41> ty
2506 2011-05-19 09:59:16 <molecular> dude41, get a german keyboard ;)
2507 2011-05-19 10:00:36 hyperjacker has joined
2508 2011-05-19 10:00:39 <sipa> molecular: 0.3.22 changes min fee to 0.0005
2509 2011-05-19 10:01:03 <UukGoblin> molecular, yeah, only a bit late ;-]
2510 2011-05-19 10:01:07 <molecular> sipa, ah, that's a good step in the right direction
2511 2011-05-19 10:01:12 <UukGoblin> wow
2512 2011-05-19 10:01:12 <BlueMatt> alright, well 0.3.22 rc2 builds did actually build right, Im just stupid...
2513 2011-05-19 10:01:24 <molecular> sipa, so that's should be in my git clone...
2514 2011-05-19 10:01:30 <UukGoblin> that's a 20x decrease in min fee
2515 2011-05-19 10:01:34 <sipa> indeed
2516 2011-05-19 10:01:38 <UukGoblin> awesome
2517 2011-05-19 10:01:41 <sipa> and it was desparately needed
2518 2011-05-19 10:01:55 <molecular> agreed
2519 2011-05-19 10:02:14 <molecular> and the miners wont mind ;)
2520 2011-05-19 10:02:19 <BlueMatt> if someone has some serious free cputime, please test and see if your windows builds result in the same as mine for 0.3.22 rc2 https://gist.github.com/961527
2521 2011-05-19 10:02:29 <dude41> rigs running on 5850's for sale pm me
2522 2011-05-19 10:02:43 <UukGoblin> that'll cause some nice confusion ;-]
2523 2011-05-19 10:03:16 <zp> molecular: are there docs with existing rpc's?
2524 2011-05-19 10:04:01 <UukGoblin> I'd like to be able to set my miner up simply: accept all transactions with a fee and all my transactions, drop everything else :-]
2525 2011-05-19 10:04:30 <molecular> zp, yes, you can just execute bitcoin with "help" option. "#> bitcoin help"
2526 2011-05-19 10:04:31 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2527 2011-05-19 10:04:31 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.4498,"low":6.6,"vol":24873,"buy":7,"sell":7.1597,"last":7}}
2528 2011-05-19 10:04:40 <molecular> zp, that's how you can make a rpc call from commandline, too
2529 2011-05-19 10:04:53 sc8nt4u has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2530 2011-05-19 10:04:53 <joepie91> xelister: bitcoinplus uses a java applet
2531 2011-05-19 10:05:06 <joepie91> so it's not really browser-based generation after all
2532 2011-05-19 10:05:17 <molecular> javavm-based generation
2533 2011-05-19 10:05:39 <sipa> why oh why does an article about bitcoin mining in your browser make it to /.
2534 2011-05-19 10:05:46 <joepie91> link?
2535 2011-05-19 10:05:56 <sipa> why oh why do we let the world think bitcoin is about generating money out of thin air
2536 2011-05-19 10:06:14 <UukGoblin> sipa, well for me it is...
2537 2011-05-19 10:06:35 <UukGoblin> nice ideology and all, but primarily - money out of thin air.
2538 2011-05-19 10:06:37 <molecular> sipa, because that's what sticks
2539 2011-05-19 10:07:39 <sipa> well i agree, maybe this browser-based mining thing will cause some gold-fever for some, causing them to really start mining in a profitable way
2540 2011-05-19 10:08:04 <molecular> does this applet use Diablo-D3's code? could it?
2541 2011-05-19 10:08:40 <UukGoblin> what? how? when? why?
2542 2011-05-19 10:08:49 <UukGoblin> no way it could
2543 2011-05-19 10:08:55 <sipa> why not?
2544 2011-05-19 10:08:58 <molecular> why not?
2545 2011-05-19 10:08:59 <sipa> eh whatever
2546 2011-05-19 10:09:04 <sipa> no it's not gpu mining
2547 2011-05-19 10:09:05 <UukGoblin> well
2548 2011-05-19 10:09:14 <molecular> nope, too slow, can't be
2549 2011-05-19 10:09:16 <UukGoblin> it could use some json-rpc or something perhaps
2550 2011-05-19 10:09:24 <UukGoblin> but not the general gpu mining thingy
2551 2011-05-19 10:09:39 <molecular> why couldn't it use Diablo-D3's code in the applet. no access to gpu for an applet?
2552 2011-05-19 10:09:53 <sipa> no
2553 2011-05-19 10:09:58 <sipa> it needs additional libraries
2554 2011-05-19 10:10:12 <molecular> native ones?
2555 2011-05-19 10:10:20 <UukGoblin> native too
2556 2011-05-19 10:10:20 <sipa> yes, of course
2557 2011-05-19 10:10:24 <zp> molecular: do I need a webserver for the rpc (bitcoin help)?
2558 2011-05-19 10:10:34 <Diablo-D3> molecular: we just went through this
2559 2011-05-19 10:10:36 <Diablo-D3> you do know that right
2560 2011-05-19 10:10:49 <sipa> zp: bitcoind is its own webserver
2561 2011-05-19 10:10:52 <molecular> zp, no, you need a bitcin or bitcoind that has rpcuser and rpcpassword configured and runs on port 8332
2562 2011-05-19 10:11:17 <molecular> Diablo-D3, sorry, I missed that
2563 2011-05-19 10:11:40 <Diablo-D3> molecular: it doesnt use my code, and I should just take his code to do the applet shit
2564 2011-05-19 10:11:44 <Diablo-D3> also http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/645549
2565 2011-05-19 10:11:46 <zp> both client and server use the same conf file?
2566 2011-05-19 10:11:56 <Diablo-D3> a college course on how bitcoin works
2567 2011-05-19 10:12:35 <molecular> lol
2568 2011-05-19 10:13:12 <molecular> zp, if you start as same user on same machine, I suppose, yes
2569 2011-05-19 10:13:31 <sipa> yes
2570 2011-05-19 10:13:48 runejuhl has joined
2571 2011-05-19 10:14:11 Tritonio has joined
2572 2011-05-19 10:14:33 Alexees has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2573 2011-05-19 10:14:50 <lfm> is there a javascript lib for opencl? somehow I dont think so
2574 2011-05-19 10:14:52 Alexees has joined
2575 2011-05-19 10:15:15 <molecular> ".. and finally, it's plain to see in last step here, bitcoins pass through elliptic curve compression function here and then spit out eigenvector faucet transformation... any QUESTIONS?"
2576 2011-05-19 10:15:26 <sipa> loi
2577 2011-05-19 10:15:42 <sipa> where do you read that?
2578 2011-05-19 10:15:45 <zp> molecular: can I get certain block and try to parse it with php?
2579 2011-05-19 10:15:45 <Jere_Jones> ;;bc,stats
2580 2011-05-19 10:15:46 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125071 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1936 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 7 hours, 14 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 270291.39504692
2581 2011-05-19 10:15:55 <runejuhl> Hi people! Just installed bitcoind to see what the fuzz is about, and stumbled across this user at the Wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Special:Contributions/Anstimp -- a new user that has put links in multiple places linking to http://bitcoinregistry.com/ ... that's a scam, right?
2582 2011-05-19 10:16:06 <molecular> sipa, went through my mind when looking at http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/645549
2583 2011-05-19 10:16:29 <lfm> runejuhl: ya prolly
2584 2011-05-19 10:16:57 <sipa> runejuhl: not sure what it is, but i won't trust it before it has any other content
2585 2011-05-19 10:17:39 <runejuhl> just my thoughts.. do you want me to create a user and revert, or is there a wiki admin around?
2586 2011-05-19 10:18:34 <lfm> no sense having another new user try to correct a bad new user Id say
2587 2011-05-19 10:19:50 patapper has left ()
2588 2011-05-19 10:20:07 <molecular> zp, maybe in your case, it's easier to http-request blockexplorer stuff and parse that, maybe... ?
2589 2011-05-19 10:20:16 <runejuhl> alright, I'll leave it for someone else :)
2590 2011-05-19 10:20:26 <molecular> zp, I dont think you can access block data through rpc
2591 2011-05-19 10:25:44 <zp> what is getreceivedbyaddress ?
2592 2011-05-19 10:29:20 <lfm> get received by address? -- use address as index to get txns
2593 2011-05-19 10:29:43 <molecular> returns amount received by one of your own addresses
2594 2011-05-19 10:29:51 <molecular> ^ zp
2595 2011-05-19 10:30:06 <lfm> or all txn for that address?
2596 2011-05-19 10:30:15 <molecular> lfm, no, it returns just an amount
2597 2011-05-19 10:30:20 * MagicalTux blames all on bitcoind, version 0.3.21 is less stable than older ones
2598 2011-05-19 10:30:23 <lfm> oh ok
2599 2011-05-19 10:30:24 * MagicalTux quotes: bitcoind[26836]: segfault at 7f0ec1856168 ip 00007f0ec1856168 sp 00007f0eb7ffa7e8 error 15
2600 2011-05-19 10:31:16 <zp> and listreceivedbyaddress ?
2601 2011-05-19 10:31:29 <molecular> zp, you _could_ just try it
2602 2011-05-19 10:34:04 tauri has joined
2603 2011-05-19 10:34:21 <sipa> MagicalTux: when you do what, precisely?
2604 2011-05-19 10:34:42 <MagicalTux> sipa, no idea, a lot of stuff happens all the time on mtgox
2605 2011-05-19 10:36:06 vikarti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2606 2011-05-19 10:37:16 <sipa> 0.3.22 does not contain any fixes for possible segfaults, except one when an exception is already thrown
2607 2011-05-19 10:38:45 <zp> molecular: it shows my transactions... is there a way to check it for any address?
2608 2011-05-19 10:39:23 <molecular> zp, unfortunately, I don't think so. would love that feature for getreceivedbyaddress, too
2609 2011-05-19 10:39:46 <zp> ok
2610 2011-05-19 10:40:02 <molecular> zp, since it has the whole blockchain, it is certainly possible to do that, just might be some work to make it perfom well enough, I don't know
2611 2011-05-19 10:40:54 <sipa> you'd need a significantly larger database
2612 2011-05-19 10:40:58 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Florian Schmaus * r50ca8c8a06d1 gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/files/bitcoin.initd: fix for github issue 2 http://tinyurl.com/6ztypj4
2613 2011-05-19 10:41:01 <sipa> to have balances per address cached
2614 2011-05-19 10:41:41 <molecular> sipa, you'd need them cached, right? otherwise you'd have to scan the whole chain?
2615 2011-05-19 10:41:45 <sipa> indeed
2616 2011-05-19 10:41:50 <molecular> hmm, ok
2617 2011-05-19 10:41:59 <dude41> anyone selling
2618 2011-05-19 10:42:03 <sipa> but, blockexplorer already does that
2619 2011-05-19 10:42:06 <molecular> dude41, #bitcoin-otc
2620 2011-05-19 10:42:08 <RenaKunisaki> hmm. bitcoind --daemon doesn't work. only -daemon with one dash. had me confused for a bit...
2621 2011-05-19 10:44:00 <molecular> sipa, yeah, but I cant find something parsable for http://blockexplorer.com/address/1HT7jE1h496txKT8wZc29gBspmKKrcLabj
2622 2011-05-19 10:44:13 <molecular> sipa, how can I "extract" that info from blockexplorer?
2623 2011-05-19 10:44:32 <sipa> fetch the last balance?
2624 2011-05-19 10:44:36 <iera> oh slashdot article again ^^
2625 2011-05-19 10:44:46 <MagicalTux> molecular, there is
2626 2011-05-19 10:45:04 dude41 has quit (Quit: —I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 3515 July'07 Release)
2627 2011-05-19 10:45:11 <molecular> sipa, zp wants "listreceivedbyaddress"
2628 2011-05-19 10:45:19 <MagicalTux> http://blockexplorer.com/q/getreceivedbyaddress/1HT7jE1h496txKT8wZc29gBspmKKrcLabj
2629 2011-05-19 10:45:21 <molecular> MagicalTux, where? how?
2630 2011-05-19 10:45:23 <molecular> ah
2631 2011-05-19 10:45:36 <molecular> I know about that
2632 2011-05-19 10:45:44 <MagicalTux> what do you want exactly?
2633 2011-05-19 10:45:51 <molecular> it gives an amount only, zp wants a list of source address / amount
2634 2011-05-19 10:45:56 <MagicalTux> :p
2635 2011-05-19 10:46:03 <MagicalTux> I have that, in my mysql db
2636 2011-05-19 10:46:18 <MagicalTux> (I have a system that works exactly like blockexplorer)
2637 2011-05-19 10:46:32 <molecular> I started coding that in python, too, but abort
2638 2011-05-19 10:46:38 <molecular> can you opensource that?
2639 2011-05-19 10:46:43 <zp> I want to check a block and to see whether certain amount was transfered from A to B
2640 2011-05-19 10:46:59 <molecular> zp, you said before, "in a certain block" was not a condition
2641 2011-05-19 10:47:12 <molecular> zp, maybe you could tell us what's the use case of this?
2642 2011-05-19 10:47:14 <zp> it easier like this right?
2643 2011-05-19 10:47:56 <zp> don't have to scan all the chain
2644 2011-05-19 10:47:56 <zp> don't have to scan all the chain
2645 2011-05-19 10:48:32 <molecular> zp, what are you trying to do?
2646 2011-05-19 10:48:47 <zp> actually it is... in a case that A transfered to B the same amount twice
2647 2011-05-19 10:48:58 <zp> make some kind of rating based on txs
2648 2011-05-19 10:49:59 midnightmagic has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2649 2011-05-19 10:50:16 midnightmagic_ has joined
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2651 2011-05-19 10:50:19 <molecular> zp, rating for what?
2652 2011-05-19 10:50:45 midnightmagic has joined
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2654 2011-05-19 10:50:47 <molecular> if someone sends the same amount twice to same address, it will be 2 different "from" addresses
2655 2011-05-19 10:50:52 <molecular> likely
2656 2011-05-19 10:50:57 <MagicalTux> it will
2657 2011-05-19 10:51:06 <directhex> hm, letter from my bank. i guess i should expect that now.
2658 2011-05-19 10:51:16 midnightmagic has joined
2659 2011-05-19 10:51:16 <MagicalTux> directhex, ?
2660 2011-05-19 10:51:16 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
2661 2011-05-19 10:51:26 <directhex> "ADVICE OF SEPA CREDIT"
2662 2011-05-19 10:51:35 <directhex> they don't bother telling me about non-european deposits
2663 2011-05-19 10:51:40 <directhex> i guess it's a record of the exchange rate
2664 2011-05-19 10:51:45 midnightmagic has joined
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2666 2011-05-19 10:52:01 ejbvanc has joined
2667 2011-05-19 10:52:13 thedrs has joined
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2670 2011-05-19 10:52:45 midnightmagic has joined
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2672 2011-05-19 10:53:02 <thedrs> ;;bc, stats
2673 2011-05-19 10:53:02 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
2674 2011-05-19 10:53:13 <thedrs> ;;bc stats
2675 2011-05-19 10:53:13 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
2676 2011-05-19 10:53:15 midnightmagic has joined
2677 2011-05-19 10:53:16 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
2678 2011-05-19 10:53:25 <theorbtwo> ;;bc.stats
2679 2011-05-19 10:53:25 <gribble> Error: "bc.stats" is not a valid command.
2680 2011-05-19 10:53:29 <theorbtwo> ;;bc,stats
2681 2011-05-19 10:53:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125073 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1934 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 3 hours, 10 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 273372.21574502
2682 2011-05-19 10:53:35 <theorbtwo> There we are.
2683 2011-05-19 10:53:40 <thedrs> thanks
2684 2011-05-19 10:54:03 <zp> but in the latest version I can set the "from" address to any that I have, right?
2685 2011-05-19 10:54:12 <sipa> no
2686 2011-05-19 10:54:13 <thedrs> ;;bc,gen 350000
2687 2011-05-19 10:54:13 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 350000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 1.44196231974 BTC per day and 0.0600817633227 BTC per hour.
2688 2011-05-19 10:54:15 midnightmagic has joined
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2690 2011-05-19 10:54:28 <zp> sipa: no?
2691 2011-05-19 10:54:30 <sipa> bitcoin transactions do not have a single well-defined 'from'
2692 2011-05-19 10:54:36 <thedrs> ;;bc,gen 7000
2693 2011-05-19 10:54:37 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 7000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 0.0288392463949 BTC per day and 0.00120163526645 BTC per hour.
2694 2011-05-19 10:54:45 midnightmagic has joined
2695 2011-05-19 10:55:01 <theorbtwo> They have zero or more inputs, and one or more outputs, IIRC.
2696 2011-05-19 10:55:43 <molecular> a "ususal" transaction has 1 or more inputs and two outputs (recipient, change)
2697 2011-05-19 10:55:44 <zp> <zp> can they choose their "from" address if they want?
2698 2011-05-19 10:55:44 <zp> <lfm> ya, now
2699 2011-05-19 10:55:50 <zp> ?
2700 2011-05-19 10:57:07 <molecular> zp, I didn't look at that new feature... so I can't comment
2701 2011-05-19 10:57:30 <sipa> there is no such feature
2702 2011-05-19 11:00:39 <molecular> sipa, ok, 'd be confusing the shit out of people anyhow
2703 2011-05-19 11:04:58 vorlov has joined
2704 2011-05-19 11:06:12 <lfm> from account
2705 2011-05-19 11:06:19 <sipa> from account, yes
2706 2011-05-19 11:06:23 <sipa> from address, no
2707 2011-05-19 11:06:24 <lfm> and if account is a single address
2708 2011-05-19 11:06:26 <sipa> no
2709 2011-05-19 11:06:35 <sipa> accounts are purely a client-side accounting feature
2710 2011-05-19 11:06:53 <sipa> it by no means a guarantee the money will come from the address linked to that account
2711 2011-05-19 11:07:08 <lfm> oh ok I misunderstood
2712 2011-05-19 11:08:06 <zp> why are there several "to" addresses in one transaction, like this: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/12a5245a8ef43642a937e5c40da1c8c35a3622d884935891b01e92b9277a304a
2713 2011-05-19 11:08:10 <zp> ?
2714 2011-05-19 11:08:45 <lfm> zp: a slightly simplified way to send btc to several people at the same time
2715 2011-05-19 11:09:28 <zp> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/f2ea27861d0f7fd3cf88b2bcdbe0f34192a4015fdd44674f06a0ce1606104c6d
2716 2011-05-19 11:09:33 <zp> amounts are different?
2717 2011-05-19 11:09:39 <lfm> ya
2718 2011-05-19 11:09:52 marlowe has joined
2719 2011-05-19 11:10:17 <zp> why?
2720 2011-05-19 11:10:21 <lfm> zp: ITS JUST MORE EFFICIENT THAN MAKEING CHANGE FOR EACH "TO" ADDRESS
2721 2011-05-19 11:10:27 <Diablo-D3> http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/979961
2722 2011-05-19 11:10:29 <lfm> sorry caps lock
2723 2011-05-19 11:10:32 <Diablo-D3> what an nvidia chip looks like mining
2724 2011-05-19 11:11:00 [1]currentB has joined
2725 2011-05-19 11:12:46 <zp> lfm: "making change"?
2726 2011-05-19 11:12:56 <lfm> ya
2727 2011-05-19 11:13:05 currentB has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2728 2011-05-19 11:13:06 [1]currentB is now known as currentB
2729 2011-05-19 11:13:47 <sipa> zp: all a bitcoin transaction can do, is take 'coins' created by previous transactions, combine them, split them again (in possibly different sizes), and direct the coins created that way to certain addresses
2730 2011-05-19 11:13:54 <sipa> if you have a 5 BTC coin in your wallet
2731 2011-05-19 11:13:59 <sipa> and want to send me 1 BTC
2732 2011-05-19 11:14:00 <jrabbit> http://pastebin.ca/2063953
2733 2011-05-19 11:14:04 <lfm> zp: thats when you want to send an amount and none of your current input txn have the right amount, you send the amount and a "change" output back to yourself
2734 2011-05-19 11:14:11 dissipate has joined
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2736 2011-05-19 11:14:12 dissipate has joined
2737 2011-05-19 11:14:21 <sipa> your client will use an extra 'own' address (called a change address), and send 1 BTC to me, and 4 BTC to that change address
2738 2011-05-19 11:14:26 <sipa> leaving a 4 BTC coin in your wallet
2739 2011-05-19 11:14:55 <zp> aaa...
2740 2011-05-19 11:15:17 <lfm> light is dawning in the newbie's mind
2741 2011-05-19 11:15:24 <zp> 1) many "from" address are caused by different amounts sitting in them, right?
2742 2011-05-19 11:15:48 <zp> caused by combining
2743 2011-05-19 11:16:01 <xelister> joepie91: java applets have access to OpenCL ?
2744 2011-05-19 11:16:09 <dissipate> sinpa, yep, which sucks because if you have had more than 100 transactions since your last wallet.dat backup, your backup will be invalid
2745 2011-05-19 11:16:23 <lfm> zp: if you mean what I think you mean then yes
2746 2011-05-19 11:16:36 <zp> :)
2747 2011-05-19 11:16:40 Speeder has joined
2748 2011-05-19 11:16:48 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2749 2011-05-19 11:17:08 <zp> 2) there could be max. 2 "to" address in a regular transaction (not that with multiply recipent), right?
2750 2011-05-19 11:17:32 <sipa> in the transactions created by the default client, yes
2751 2011-05-19 11:17:37 <lfm> zp ya
2752 2011-05-19 11:17:43 <sipa> though there are ideas to change that
2753 2011-05-19 11:17:54 <sipa> to improve anonymity, have more than one change output
2754 2011-05-19 11:18:50 <lfm> bah, thats not worth the trouble for anonymity
2755 2011-05-19 11:19:06 <edcba> to improve anon receiver should give 2 addresses
2756 2011-05-19 11:19:43 <zp> but anyway I'll be able to see the "to" address and the amount I was looking for (in order to check whether A transfered to B x BTCs)
2757 2011-05-19 11:19:45 <edcba> wait no that wouldn't even suffice
2758 2011-05-19 11:20:24 <edcba> tx amount is leaking too much info lol
2759 2011-05-19 11:20:37 <sipa> the point is that if you now see a tx with 5.13 input, and a 5.00 output and 0.13 output
2760 2011-05-19 11:20:46 <Kurtov> Um, is 310 a good price for a 5month old 6970? :/
2761 2011-05-19 11:20:58 <edcba> ok i think when you give x you should give x to you too
2762 2011-05-19 11:20:59 <sipa> you're quite sure the 5 is the real output, and the 0.13 is change
2763 2011-05-19 11:21:23 <edcba> ie A sends 1 to B from his 50
2764 2011-05-19 11:21:24 <lfm> 310 what? euro?
2765 2011-05-19 11:21:29 <Kurtov> AUD
2766 2011-05-19 11:21:32 <Kurtov> Actually
2767 2011-05-19 11:21:34 <Kurtov> 300AUD
2768 2011-05-19 11:21:39 <Kurtov> he put it down
2769 2011-05-19 11:21:47 <edcba> that would be A sends 1 to A, A sends 1 to B, A sends 48 to A
2770 2011-05-19 11:22:25 <lfm> Kurtov: if it still works right, like hasnt been burt out trying to overclock it, then its prolly good as new
2771 2011-05-19 11:22:29 <zp> each tx has its own ID?
2772 2011-05-19 11:22:40 <Kurtov> But it's only 50 off the brand new price
2773 2011-05-19 11:22:45 <edcba> id ?
2774 2011-05-19 11:22:57 <zp> ID number, or whatever
2775 2011-05-19 11:23:12 <zp> unique identification
2776 2011-05-19 11:23:19 <lfm> Kurtov: well it is 50 off the new price then
2777 2011-05-19 11:23:19 <Kurtov> lfm?
2778 2011-05-19 11:23:23 <sipa> zp: yes, its hash
2779 2011-05-19 11:23:33 <Kurtov> Actually 100 of the brand new price
2780 2011-05-19 11:23:39 <Kurtov> RRP is it 400
2781 2011-05-19 11:23:41 <Kurtov> gigabyte
2782 2011-05-19 11:24:15 <edcba> zp: what for ?
2783 2011-05-19 11:24:31 <zp> to parse it
2784 2011-05-19 11:24:33 <edcba> i think it has some number but i don't remember if it is used
2785 2011-05-19 11:24:41 <zp> in blockexplorer
2786 2011-05-19 11:24:47 <edcba> why would you need an id to parse a tx ?
2787 2011-05-19 11:24:50 <zp> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/f2ea27861d0f7fd3cf88b2bcdbe0f34192a4015fdd44674f06a0ce1606104c6d
2788 2011-05-19 11:24:57 <zp> f2ea27861d0f7fd3cf88b2bcdbe0f34192a4015fdd44674f06a0ce1606104c6d
2789 2011-05-19 11:24:59 <edcba> it's hash of t
2790 2011-05-19 11:25:00 <edcba> x
2791 2011-05-19 11:25:04 deroby has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2792 2011-05-19 11:25:06 <zp> is its ID
2793 2011-05-19 11:25:08 <zp> ?
2794 2011-05-19 11:25:09 <edcba> merkle hash i assume
2795 2011-05-19 11:25:24 <edcba> yes it serves as ID here
2796 2011-05-19 11:25:37 <zp> how can I determine this hash from a tx that I've made?
2797 2011-05-19 11:25:39 <lfm> zp ya hash of txn is used as an id
2798 2011-05-19 11:25:44 <edcba> should be relatively unique for your life :)
2799 2011-05-19 11:26:11 <zp> is it somewhere in client?
2800 2011-05-19 11:26:16 rli has left ()
2801 2011-05-19 11:26:18 * molecular just flipped through forbes magazine, which he got for having a photo of gavin burning fiat.
2802 2011-05-19 11:26:22 <molecular> god it's awful
2803 2011-05-19 11:26:27 <molecular> >60% ads
2804 2011-05-19 11:26:57 <molecular> the remainder is also crap, who reads that?
2805 2011-05-19 11:27:01 <edcba> zp: not sure bitcoin client uses hash for tx
2806 2011-05-19 11:27:08 <edcba> hmm
2807 2011-05-19 11:27:09 <zp> i.e. if I made a transaction where do I get its hash from?
2808 2011-05-19 11:27:12 <edcba> yes it does
2809 2011-05-19 11:27:19 <edcba> the inventory thing
2810 2011-05-19 11:27:27 <edcba> you hash it ?
2811 2011-05-19 11:27:37 <lfm> zp sha256(sha256(txn))
2812 2011-05-19 11:27:58 <Keefe> i've been experiencing bouts of horrible latency on my dsl connection, so i ran wireshark and determined my bitcoind was uploading way too much at those times. i haven't tried to figure out what it's uploading, but i'm guessing it's sending lots of blocks to someone who's catching up on the chain (or more than one someone). anyone else experiencing this sometimes totally swamping their connection?
2813 2011-05-19 11:28:19 <edcba> that happens
2814 2011-05-19 11:28:28 <Keefe> by horrible, i mean 4-6 secs
2815 2011-05-19 11:28:29 <edcba> bitcoin networking is awful imo
2816 2011-05-19 11:28:29 <xelister> Keefe: btw, btcfn will solve this :)
2817 2011-05-19 11:28:38 <edcba> what is btcfn ?
2818 2011-05-19 11:28:43 robert-ullson has joined
2819 2011-05-19 11:28:46 <xelister> #btcfn
2820 2011-05-19 11:28:47 <lfm> Keefe: sounds like new users connecting to you and getting their initial block chain from you
2821 2011-05-19 11:28:52 <robert-ullson> anyone selling?
2822 2011-05-19 11:28:56 <xelister> eb Bitcoin-over-Freenet and other cryptonets | more info: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7181.0 | bitcoin transport layer API discussion: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=8379.0
2823 2011-05-19 11:29:05 <edcba> 100€/btc
2824 2011-05-19 11:29:06 <xelister> edcba:
2825 2011-05-19 11:29:11 <edcba> robert-ullson: go to bitcoin-ofc
2826 2011-05-19 11:29:17 <robert-ullson> 8ppusd per btc
2827 2011-05-19 11:29:20 <xelister> -otc
2828 2011-05-19 11:29:25 <robert-ullson> ok
2829 2011-05-19 11:29:38 <edcba> wtf is pp ?
2830 2011-05-19 11:29:44 <xelister> edcba: fagpal
2831 2011-05-19 11:29:48 <edcba> oh
2832 2011-05-19 11:29:56 <Keefe> it's like bitcoind is pushing packets with total disregard for latency. not even uncapped torrents or ftp is this bad
2833 2011-05-19 11:29:59 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
2834 2011-05-19 11:29:59 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.4498,"low":6.6,"vol":25783,"buy":6.94,"sell":6.95,"last":6.94}}
2835 2011-05-19 11:30:28 TDX_ is now known as TD
2836 2011-05-19 11:30:46 <TD> Keefe: bitcoin doesn't have any kind of throttling mechanism beyond a refusal to send messages of > X kb
2837 2011-05-19 11:30:54 <zp> lfm: is there an easy way to get the hash? (without programming, look it up somewhere)
2838 2011-05-19 11:30:59 <lfm> Keefe: ya, 500 block sends are normal, and 500 block is bigger now than it used to be
2839 2011-05-19 11:31:37 <TD> Keefe: if you can't tolerate that, it's best if you don't accept connections at all (-nolisten does this)
2840 2011-05-19 11:31:44 <lfm> zp: you use a library sha256 function works fine for most things
2841 2011-05-19 11:31:49 <Keefe> i thought tcp was at least a little considerate
2842 2011-05-19 11:31:59 <Keefe> i expected 1-2 sec
2843 2011-05-19 11:32:48 <TD> i don't know, it could be your ISP perhaps. i never had these problems
2844 2011-05-19 11:32:52 <lupine_85> I doubt bitcoind does anything odd with the tcp send window
2845 2011-05-19 11:32:52 <lfm> Keefe: you on linux?
2846 2011-05-19 11:33:03 <Keefe> bitcoind is
2847 2011-05-19 11:33:23 <Keefe> it's on a linux box on my home net, which has a linux gateway
2848 2011-05-19 11:33:30 <lfm> ok could be linux bug I spoze if tcp is spozed to be nicer
2849 2011-05-19 11:34:26 <Keefe> -nolisten... that would mean i'd still connect to the bitcoin net, but i wouldn't get incoming connections from new chain downloaders?
2850 2011-05-19 11:34:38 <lfm> I dunno really, if my videos break up I just kinda put up with it
2851 2011-05-19 11:34:48 <TD> yes
2852 2011-05-19 11:35:09 <lfm> Keefe: or dont forward port at all
2853 2011-05-19 11:35:32 diki has quit ()
2854 2011-05-19 11:36:54 <Keefe> it's probably time i figure out how to throttle individual lan ips at my gateway
2855 2011-05-19 11:37:13 <Keefe> but for now, i'll just drop the port-forward. thanks guys for the tips
2856 2011-05-19 11:37:57 <joepie91> <xelister>joepie91: java applets have access to OpenCL ?
2857 2011-05-19 11:38:00 <joepie91> I think it only does CPU mining
2858 2011-05-19 11:38:05 <joepie91> judging from the speed I got
2859 2011-05-19 11:38:46 robert-ullson has quit (Quit: —I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 3515 July'07 Release)
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2867 2011-05-19 11:58:02 <Tritonio> where are translations needed? I mean in the client? in the website? in the wiki?
2868 2011-05-19 11:58:18 <sipa> anywhere is nice
2869 2011-05-19 11:58:20 RazielZ has joined
2870 2011-05-19 11:58:40 <Tritonio> Are there Greek translations for any of those?
2871 2011-05-19 11:59:04 <metonymous_> if i'm running a private pool, and I monitor the miners with other tools, there's no advantage to re-setting the difficulty to 1; true of false?
2872 2011-05-19 11:59:14 <ersi> Tritonio: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/tree/translations/locale
2873 2011-05-19 11:59:29 <ersi> I don't think so, unless you see the ISO two letter symbols for greek there
2874 2011-05-19 11:59:52 <Tritonio> thans ersi. no there is no gr translation.
2875 2011-05-19 12:00:11 <Tritonio> so... can I help in making one?
2876 2011-05-19 12:00:12 <ersi> then take the bitcoin.po from one of those folders and translate the strings to Greek :)
2877 2011-05-19 12:00:15 <ersi> sure
2878 2011-05-19 12:00:36 <Tritonio> yes but I guess I need an english bitcoin.po. :-)
2879 2011-05-19 12:01:40 <ersi> no, just take any of them
2880 2011-05-19 12:01:48 <ersi> the english source is in all of them
2881 2011-05-19 12:01:58 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2882 2011-05-19 12:02:05 <ersi> just take away the target additions and send'em off to BlueMatt :)
2883 2011-05-19 12:02:52 <Tritonio> ok then. I will come back when I have finished it. I guess that that's just for the client, right?
2884 2011-05-19 12:03:05 <ersi> yeah
2885 2011-05-19 12:03:59 <Tritonio> What about the main site and the wiki pages? I though there were some translations for those too on the front page but I don't see them anymore.
2886 2011-05-19 12:04:13 <ersi> no idea
2887 2011-05-19 12:04:14 marlowe has joined
2888 2011-05-19 12:04:38 <ersi> wiki is a seperate effort afaik, just log on and create new articles and follow current guidelines if there's any
2889 2011-05-19 12:04:50 <Tritonio> never mind. I'll go on with this one for now.
2890 2011-05-19 12:06:23 <ersi> ;)
2891 2011-05-19 12:07:32 <metonymous_> i have a proposition, that the "rpc" naming convention should be more "restful", i should type "transactions" to get transactions, "accounts" to get accounts, "addressess" to get addresses, "info", for info, all "gets" should be just the resource. likewise, if you call 'txfee' if should return the txfee, if you call "txfee 0.0004096" it should set the transaction fee. change "generate" to "generating".
2892 2011-05-19 12:08:13 <metonymous_> typing 'transaction xxxxxxxxxxxxxx' would display just taht transaction
2893 2011-05-19 12:08:17 <metonymous_> note the singular
2894 2011-05-19 12:08:23 <metonymous_> same with account
2895 2011-05-19 12:09:31 <metonymous_> needs fleshing out
2896 2011-05-19 12:09:34 thedrs has quit ()
2897 2011-05-19 12:09:45 <sipa> chances are small we'll change the rpc interface
2898 2011-05-19 12:09:46 <metonymous_> but i'm already sick of remembering if it's listtransactions or gettransactions or gettransactionslist
2899 2011-05-19 12:10:01 <metonymous_> could they exist side by side?
2900 2011-05-19 12:10:03 <sipa> the names aren't very consistent always
2901 2011-05-19 12:10:12 <metonymous_> that's my grudge, i guess
2902 2011-05-19 12:10:13 <sipa> but a lot of sites depend on it
2903 2011-05-19 12:10:20 <metonymous_> u could keep the old ones
2904 2011-05-19 12:10:26 <metonymous_> for lots of versions
2905 2011-05-19 12:10:30 <metonymous_> slowly deprecate them
2906 2011-05-19 12:10:53 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2907 2011-05-19 12:11:25 <metonymous_> i'm just from that ruby school of "do what I mean"
2908 2011-05-19 12:11:29 <metonymous_> and bitcoind doesn't :P
2909 2011-05-19 12:11:52 <metonymous_> if i implemented them to function alongside their verbose equivalents
2910 2011-05-19 12:11:59 <metonymous_> would it likely get pulled?
2911 2011-05-19 12:12:05 <Tritonio> ersi: any fast way to cleanup all spanish translations from bitcoin.po with Poedit?
2912 2011-05-19 12:12:53 marlowe has joined
2913 2011-05-19 12:14:32 <metonymous_> would rpc support "periods" in the names
2914 2011-05-19 12:14:43 <sipa> periods?
2915 2011-05-19 12:15:14 <metonymous_> "accounts.received"
2916 2011-05-19 12:15:23 <metonymous_> "account.received xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"
2917 2011-05-19 12:16:04 <metonymous_> "account.transfer xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx"
2918 2011-05-19 12:16:08 <metonymous_> or something
2919 2011-05-19 12:16:52 marlowe has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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2921 2011-05-19 12:19:42 x5x`brb`brb is now known as x5x`brb
2922 2011-05-19 12:20:40 zp has joined
2923 2011-05-19 12:21:10 <zp> is it possible to add some comments to transaction?
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2926 2011-05-19 12:22:01 <x5x`brb> have any remote code exec vulns been foudn in previous versions of the official bitcoin client ?
2927 2011-05-19 12:22:07 <quup> is there any client that has json(or similar) interface that takes integer amount input?
2928 2011-05-19 12:22:08 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2929 2011-05-19 12:23:38 theymos has joined
2930 2011-05-19 12:24:59 <theymos> zp, molecular: You were talking about getting data from BBE. Check out http://blockexplorer.com/q/mytransactions . It allows you to get all transactions to or from given addresses.
2931 2011-05-19 12:25:17 <zp> thanks
2932 2011-05-19 12:27:20 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
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2934 2011-05-19 12:29:39 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2935 2011-05-19 12:30:49 <ersi> Tritonio: No clue, I just erased them by hand
2936 2011-05-19 12:36:30 <zp> it it possible to attach comments to txns?
2937 2011-05-19 12:36:43 <sipa> no
2938 2011-05-19 12:37:18 <sipa> though it's being considered
2939 2011-05-19 12:37:36 <molecular> ;;later tell theymos thanks for q/mytransactions, cool
2940 2011-05-19 12:37:36 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2941 2011-05-19 12:37:53 <quup> http://www.m0ar.org/6523 wat
2942 2011-05-19 12:38:57 <molecular> ;;later tell theymos maybe that should be listed on http://blockexplorer.com/q, well at least I couldn't find info on that when I looked around
2943 2011-05-19 12:38:57 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2944 2011-05-19 12:39:06 <quup> wrong channel n/m:)
2945 2011-05-19 12:39:44 <molecular> ;;later tell theymos ah, sorry, it's right there on the page I referenced. it's named a little confusingly, though ;)
2946 2011-05-19 12:39:45 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2947 2011-05-19 12:41:07 linn has joined
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2951 2011-05-19 12:42:33 <TD> zp: it's not really necessary
2952 2011-05-19 12:42:45 <TD> zp: for privacy reasons it's a good idea to create a new address for every transaction
2953 2011-05-19 12:43:09 <TD> zp: if you do that, you don't need comments because you already have some kind of checkout flow where the user is given the address to use. they can add comments at that stage in the order.
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2962 2011-05-19 12:53:52 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
2963 2011-05-19 12:53:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125088 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1919 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 23 hours, 51 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 273892.42455592
2964 2011-05-19 12:54:19 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r79 /trunk/build.xml: Add SLF4J to the unit test classpath. Fixes issue 21.
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2977 2011-05-19 13:11:28 <Tritonio> ersi: sometimes when I don't understand the context of a message I check the corresponding line of the source code. but they don't always match... sometimes the string is a few lines after where it should be according to the po.
2978 2011-05-19 13:11:37 <Tritonio> I am looking at this source: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/blob/patched/ui.cpp
2979 2011-05-19 13:13:34 <ersi> No clue there mate
2980 2011-05-19 13:13:54 <ersi> you could check it out and put the compiled localization into a folder and you should be able to see it in use
2981 2011-05-19 13:14:13 <Tritonio> :-/ ok I wil try that
2982 2011-05-19 13:15:19 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2983 2011-05-19 13:16:17 <Tritonio> eeeh... the binary distribution of bitcoin contains some locale files. but how do I tell bitcoin which one to use??? :-D
2984 2011-05-19 13:16:31 <sipa> which os?
2985 2011-05-19 13:16:31 TD_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2986 2011-05-19 13:16:35 <Tritonio> windows
2987 2011-05-19 13:16:40 TD_ has joined
2988 2011-05-19 13:16:48 <sipa> i assume it just uses your own locale settings
2989 2011-05-19 13:17:43 <Tritonio> doh... this is stupid... it's like android. If you turn the OS into Greek you have to cope with every crappy greek translation in all programs...
2990 2011-05-19 13:18:11 <sipa> haha
2991 2011-05-19 13:18:17 <Tritonio> so no command line switches, no setting in the options for language selection...
2992 2011-05-19 13:18:19 <Tritonio> ARGH
2993 2011-05-19 13:18:35 <sipa> maybe there is a way to do that per-application in windows
2994 2011-05-19 13:18:37 <sipa> just don't know
2995 2011-05-19 13:18:48 <sipa> in linux it's possible through an environnement variable
2996 2011-05-19 13:19:05 danbri has joined
2997 2011-05-19 13:19:24 <JFK911> ;;bc,gen 800000
2998 2011-05-19 13:19:25 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 3.2959138737 BTC per day and 0.137329744738 BTC per hour.
2999 2011-05-19 13:19:27 <Tritonio> maybe that works on windows to... if gettext uses it.
3000 2011-05-19 13:19:33 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 800000
3001 2011-05-19 13:19:34 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 2 weeks, 1 day, 4 hours, 5 minutes, and 13 seconds
3002 2011-05-19 13:19:37 <JFK911> HA
3003 2011-05-19 13:19:45 <ersi> Tritonio: That's why you test it on linux
3004 2011-05-19 13:19:58 <ersi> just set the env variable before starting and bam, it's in that locale
3005 2011-05-19 13:20:09 Jere_Jones has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3006 2011-05-19 13:20:11 <ersi> export LC=sv; ./bitcoin
3007 2011-05-19 13:20:33 <Tritonio> let's see if bitcoins check the lc variable...
3008 2011-05-19 13:20:39 Jere_Jones has joined
3009 2011-05-19 13:21:32 <ersi> of course, how would it else determine what language files to use
3010 2011-05-19 13:21:34 citiz3n has joined
3011 2011-05-19 13:21:34 <luke-jr> Tritonio: sorry you don't like the most sensible way of doing things :P
3012 2011-05-19 13:22:03 <luke-jr> ersi: that should be: LANG=sv ./bitcoin
3013 2011-05-19 13:22:14 <ersi> Mmm.
3014 2011-05-19 13:22:22 <ersi> locale localscme
3015 2011-05-19 13:22:40 <Tritonio> luke-jr: if by sensible you mean linux then I agree but I have NO space to install a second OS and I need windows.
3016 2011-05-19 13:23:11 <luke-jr> pfft, no excuse to need windows in this day and age
3017 2011-05-19 13:23:22 <Tritonio> games
3018 2011-05-19 13:23:32 <Tritonio> try running TF2 on Wine...
3019 2011-05-19 13:23:41 davex__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3020 2011-05-19 13:23:59 sethsethseth_ has joined
3021 2011-05-19 13:24:01 <luke-jr> games != need
3022 2011-05-19 13:24:09 <sipa> money != need
3023 2011-05-19 13:24:11 <luke-jr> especially, crappy games != need
3024 2011-05-19 13:24:16 <sipa> please, luke-jr
3025 2011-05-19 13:24:24 <Tritonio> i ain't talking to you again
3026 2011-05-19 13:24:33 <Tritonio> tf2 != crap
3027 2011-05-19 13:24:42 <luke-jr> if it requires Windows, it is by definition crap
3028 2011-05-19 13:24:46 <Tritonio> lololl
3029 2011-05-19 13:24:48 <sipa> stop it
3030 2011-05-19 13:25:14 <sipa> i have no love for windows either, but people are free to run what they like
3031 2011-05-19 13:25:29 sethsethseth__ has joined
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3033 2011-05-19 13:25:48 <luke-jr> sipa: then they shouldn't complain about it to people who know better
3034 2011-05-19 13:25:50 <Tritonio> I have no love for windows but I still need them for games. And I have an affection for gmes... :-)
3035 2011-05-19 13:25:57 BlueMatt_ has joined
3036 2011-05-19 13:26:00 <luke-jr> games are never a need, period
3037 2011-05-19 13:26:09 <sipa> so is irc
3038 2011-05-19 13:26:14 <sipa> so is money
3039 2011-05-19 13:26:18 <sipa> so are computers
3040 2011-05-19 13:26:23 <Tritonio> ok luke-jr define "need"
3041 2011-05-19 13:26:29 <Tritonio> sipa: exactly
3042 2011-05-19 13:26:40 <BlueMatt_> food+roof==need
3043 2011-05-19 13:26:41 <luke-jr> Tritonio: you die without it
3044 2011-05-19 13:27:01 marlowe has joined
3045 2011-05-19 13:27:19 <Tritonio> ok I agree if that's how you define it. Still... I don't need linux either then.
3046 2011-05-19 13:27:26 noagendamarket has joined
3047 2011-05-19 13:27:33 <luke-jr> as long as food+roof depends on money, money is a need to that extent
3048 2011-05-19 13:27:39 <BlueMatt_> hell no id die without Linux
3049 2011-05-19 13:27:46 <Tritonio> :-)
3050 2011-05-19 13:27:50 <luke-jr> Tritonio: Linux is the default; you don't need a reason for it
3051 2011-05-19 13:27:57 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3052 2011-05-19 13:27:59 <sipa> luke-jr: again, stop it
3053 2011-05-19 13:28:14 sethsethseth_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3054 2011-05-19 13:28:24 Tritonio has joined
3055 2011-05-19 13:28:56 <Tritonio> (that wasn't a ragequit, I just clicked the wrong icon)
3056 2011-05-19 13:29:16 <BlueMatt_> ...right
3057 2011-05-19 13:29:28 <Tritonio> :-P
3058 2011-05-19 13:29:40 BlueMatt_ is now known as BlueMatt[mobile]
3059 2011-05-19 13:29:45 noot has quit (Quit: leaving)
3060 2011-05-19 13:30:45 <BlueMatt[mobile]> anyway... any bugs/comments/complaints about 0.3.2 rc2 yet?
3061 2011-05-19 13:30:53 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3062 2011-05-19 13:31:34 <citiz3n> haven't tried it, otherwise i could give you some feedback
3063 2011-05-19 13:31:41 <citiz3n> do you have it compiled for windows?
3064 2011-05-19 13:32:28 <BlueMatt[mobile]> yea
3065 2011-05-19 13:32:29 right3ous has joined
3066 2011-05-19 13:32:44 <BlueMatt[mobile]> it's on the announce thread...no Mac build yet though
3067 2011-05-19 13:33:12 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
3068 2011-05-19 13:33:15 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125092 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1915 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 3 hours, 30 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 269855.67882826
3069 2011-05-19 13:33:29 larsivi has joined
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3074 2011-05-19 13:37:35 <Tritonio> I did a diff between the es.po file in my bitcoin directory and the one I found on the github link ersi gave me... They are pretty different. So what happens if I translate an older version? Can gettext handle it?
3075 2011-05-19 13:38:03 <ersi> the one on the link that I gave you should be the most recent I think
3076 2011-05-19 13:39:21 <Tritonio> it's smaller though. but yes you are right... the headers are 2011 while the other one is 2010... I'll continue translating that one then. :-)
3077 2011-05-19 13:39:31 <BlueMatt[mobile]> ersi: did you get it from my repo or did you poedit it yourself?
3078 2011-05-19 13:40:07 <BlueMatt[mobile]> or wait no the current github got my update isn't it
3079 2011-05-19 13:40:32 <Tritonio> (if I translate it will it be useless if it's a wrong version?)
3080 2011-05-19 13:40:43 <BlueMatt[mobile]> Tritonio: try checking the latest one from github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
3081 2011-05-19 13:40:51 <BlueMatt[mobile]> prett much
3082 2011-05-19 13:40:59 <ersi> It's not useless even if it's not up to date
3083 2011-05-19 13:41:06 <ersi> a lot of the strings will match up just fine
3084 2011-05-19 13:41:19 <BlueMatt[mobile]> well you will waste time translating strings that were removed
3085 2011-05-19 13:41:24 <BlueMatt[mobile]> and miss a bunch
3086 2011-05-19 13:41:55 <BlueMatt[mobile]> just get latest de/es/lt from github, those are all up to date
3087 2011-05-19 13:41:58 <ersi> True, heh.
3088 2011-05-19 13:42:14 <x5x`brb> have any remote code exec vulns been foudn in previous versions of the official bitcoin client ?
3089 2011-05-19 13:42:17 <ersi> Wonder if the 'Generated' and 'Generate coins' strings are gone now :p
3090 2011-05-19 13:42:27 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
3091 2011-05-19 13:43:07 <BlueMatt[mobile]> x5x: not afaik though there was one issue with coin values overflowing
3092 2011-05-19 13:43:20 <BlueMatt[mobile]> but that never gets outside of allocated memory
3093 2011-05-19 13:43:22 <sipa> ersi: yes
3094 2011-05-19 13:43:29 <x5x> just wondering if that is on people's radar at all
3095 2011-05-19 13:43:43 <sipa> ersi: well, generated not, since you can still use getwork-based miners
3096 2011-05-19 13:44:01 <ersi> Ah, heh.
3097 2011-05-19 13:44:08 <BlueMatt[mobile]> sipa: have you checked de/lt/es?
3098 2011-05-19 13:44:22 <sipa> BlueMatt[mobile]: no?
3099 2011-05-19 13:44:25 <BlueMatt[mobile]> I'm not 100%sure one wasn't missed
3100 2011-05-19 13:44:37 <BlueMatt[mobile]> plus the cli stuff
3101 2011-05-19 13:44:46 <BlueMatt[mobile]> which also gets translated
3102 2011-05-19 13:45:15 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3103 2011-05-19 13:45:37 <BlueMatt[mobile]> x5x: yea, of course it's of interest, but so far no one has found any and many people have looked at various portions of the code
3104 2011-05-19 13:45:56 <BlueMatt[mobile]> esp handling of data off the wire
3105 2011-05-19 13:46:12 <x5x> yea i mean has anyone ever argued the official client should be a java based one or something ?
3106 2011-05-19 13:47:07 <BlueMatt[mobile]> diablo yes, everyone else no
3107 2011-05-19 13:47:09 <Tritonio> no java. i beg you
3108 2011-05-19 13:47:26 <BlueMatt[mobile]> (diablo is in love with java(
3109 2011-05-19 13:47:52 <Tritonio> It's hungry for RAM... I hate that lang.
3110 2011-05-19 13:47:58 <x5x> i mean java does pretty much mitigate the issue of remote code exec vulns right?
3111 2011-05-19 13:48:01 <Tritonio> Plus it's ugly...
3112 2011-05-19 13:48:07 <x5x> unless u do something ridiculously stupid
3113 2011-05-19 13:48:12 <BlueMatt[mobile]> plus there is bitcoinj, but that's more geared towards mobiles or other low resource clients
3114 2011-05-19 13:48:15 <Tritonio> Why not python? Or Lua?
3115 2011-05-19 13:48:24 <EvanR-work> bitcoinj is a thin client?
3116 2011-05-19 13:48:27 <x5x> Tritonio, those are fine too
3117 2011-05-19 13:48:34 sgornick has joined
3118 2011-05-19 13:48:46 <x5x> although I would think java is probably more thoroughly tested in terms of those type of vulnerabilies
3119 2011-05-19 13:48:49 <doublec> there are partially complete clients written in python
3120 2011-05-19 13:48:52 <sipa> Tritonio: because the original author choose to write it in C++, and implementing a full client is a huge work :)
3121 2011-05-19 13:49:06 <BlueMatt[mobile]> EvanR-work: yea it doesn't store blockchain
3122 2011-05-19 13:50:04 <EvanR-work> cool
3123 2011-05-19 13:50:19 <EvanR-work> so many articles on bitcoin complain about the block chain being huge to download
3124 2011-05-19 13:50:31 <EvanR-work> among other wrong problems
3125 2011-05-19 13:50:32 <Diablo-D3> hrm
3126 2011-05-19 13:50:35 <Diablo-D3> I find this interesting
3127 2011-05-19 13:50:41 <Diablo-D3> turning compositing on slows down mining
3128 2011-05-19 13:50:43 <BlueMatt[mobile]> yea Gavin is working on that for main client
3129 2011-05-19 13:51:11 molecular has joined
3130 2011-05-19 13:51:40 <BlueMatt[mobile]> (satoshi wrote half a thin client patch and gavin is looking to finish it)
3131 2011-05-19 13:52:15 <iera> Diablo-D3: no surprise if the video card has more work to do?
3132 2011-05-19 13:53:38 <x5x> so does the thin client act exactly the same to the end user?
3133 2011-05-19 13:54:32 <BlueMatt[mobile]> pretty much, just way less resource usage
3134 2011-05-19 13:54:52 <BlueMatt[mobile]> but no mining
3135 2011-05-19 13:55:33 <x5x> sweet
3136 2011-05-19 13:56:23 rtulio has joined
3137 2011-05-19 14:05:05 <Tritonio> I am translating IP transaction strings... I though those had been finally purged from the client... :-)
3138 2011-05-19 14:05:29 <BlueMatt[mobile]> no they are still there just enabled by default
3139 2011-05-19 14:05:33 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
3140 2011-05-19 14:06:30 <Tritonio> later people. thanks for helping me with the po files. :-)
3141 2011-05-19 14:06:53 <BlueMatt[mobile]> thanks for translating
3142 2011-05-19 14:07:10 <Tritonio> np. :-)
3143 2011-05-19 14:07:27 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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3147 2011-05-19 14:12:52 NOTAL has joined
3148 2011-05-19 14:14:52 <Diablo-D3> iera: yeah but it doesnt
3149 2011-05-19 14:14:57 <Diablo-D3> the compositor Im using uses xrender
3150 2011-05-19 14:15:06 <iera> Diablo-D3: hm lol
3151 2011-05-19 14:15:27 <Diablo-D3> probably X fuckery
3152 2011-05-19 14:15:33 <Diablo-D3> since you cant sync composite events
3153 2011-05-19 14:15:43 <iera> maybe
3154 2011-05-19 14:15:46 Jere_Jones has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3155 2011-05-19 14:19:17 BlueMatt[mobile] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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3167 2011-05-19 14:35:27 <rickayyyyyyyyyyy> anyone selling
3168 2011-05-19 14:35:44 <sipa> see #bitcoin-otc
3169 2011-05-19 14:39:04 theboos has joined
3170 2011-05-19 14:41:56 vorlov has joined
3171 2011-05-19 14:44:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: can you close #147
3172 2011-05-19 14:46:03 tabsa has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
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3177 2011-05-19 14:56:14 <sipa> BlueMatt: done
3178 2011-05-19 14:56:48 <BlueMatt> thanks
3179 2011-05-19 15:01:21 glassresistor has joined
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3188 2011-05-19 15:17:27 <vorlov> guys
3189 2011-05-19 15:17:45 <vorlov> so i got ubuntu installed but the screen im suing it with (for the lack of a better one) is my flat screen tv which is pretty wide
3190 2011-05-19 15:17:53 <vorlov> console obviously is half out of the picture
3191 2011-05-19 15:18:01 <vorlov> is there a way to change frame buffer for console
3192 2011-05-19 15:18:03 <vorlov> ?
3193 2011-05-19 15:18:15 qwebirc57851 has joined
3194 2011-05-19 15:19:09 Tomo_ has joined
3195 2011-05-19 15:21:38 ar4s has joined
3196 2011-05-19 15:21:48 <erbs> yo broh
3197 2011-05-19 15:22:03 metonymous has quit (Quit: metonymous)
3198 2011-05-19 15:22:25 mos has joined
3199 2011-05-19 15:22:41 <erbs> linkedin ipo opens @ $83
3200 2011-05-19 15:22:53 mosi has quit (work!~mos@217.22.80.86|Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3201 2011-05-19 15:22:55 <erbs> why cant i get in on any of these fads and make some dough
3202 2011-05-19 15:23:20 <xelister> erbs: because you're in the land of the free. Problem bro? :-D
3203 2011-05-19 15:23:45 <erbs> based on linkedin's ipo: A valuation of 6.5 billion dollars on $15 million net income (2010)
3204 2011-05-19 15:24:02 <vorlov> guys
3205 2011-05-19 15:24:11 <vorlov> anyone with ideas on how to reset console frame buffer
3206 2011-05-19 15:24:11 <vorlov> ?
3207 2011-05-19 15:25:20 devrandom has joined
3208 2011-05-19 15:27:36 <BlueMatt> hi devrandom
3209 2011-05-19 15:27:54 <TD> morning devrandom
3210 2011-05-19 15:28:06 <devrandom> morning BlueMatt, TD
3211 2011-05-19 15:28:38 <erbs> grimped like a pimp
3212 2011-05-19 15:29:43 <erbs> Health-care expenses to rise 8.5% in 2012: study  http://www.marketwatch.com/story/health-expenses-to-rise-85-in-2012-study-2011-05-18
3213 2011-05-19 15:30:09 <erbs> thanks greedy insurance cos!
3214 2011-05-19 15:30:34 diki has joined
3215 2011-05-19 15:31:07 <diki> i've noticed that...the code in pushpool features no rowid for sqlite which is responsible for auto incrementing
3216 2011-05-19 15:32:30 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
3217 2011-05-19 15:33:07 <jaromil> 212/win 30
3218 2011-05-19 15:33:08 <jaromil> ops
3219 2011-05-19 15:34:17 <diki> 212-im assuming you are talking about Cooler Master Hyper 212+. Win is obvious-Windows. 30 idk and Ops-Black Ops
3220 2011-05-19 15:34:22 <diki> There, i decoded your message
3221 2011-05-19 15:34:54 <JFK911> OK, I have installed the Win32s subsystem but I can't get the Bitcoin client to work
3222 2011-05-19 15:35:00 <JFK911> What DLL's do I need to run Bitcoin on Windows 3.11?
3223 2011-05-19 15:35:06 <diki> loool
3224 2011-05-19 15:35:30 <diki> i suggest you try win95
3225 2011-05-19 15:35:31 <directhex> you should use a java miner. java's all about "write once run anywhere"
3226 2011-05-19 15:35:34 lg3 has joined
3227 2011-05-19 15:35:43 <JFK911> I don't think I have a jvm for this box
3228 2011-05-19 15:35:49 lg3 has quit (Client Quit)
3229 2011-05-19 15:35:52 ar4s has joined
3230 2011-05-19 15:35:52 <JFK911> Unless GNU built one
3231 2011-05-19 15:37:35 <erbs> dude i need some money
3232 2011-05-19 15:37:39 dux0r has joined
3233 2011-05-19 15:37:53 <erbs> mcdonalds didn't hire me in their  last hiring spree
3234 2011-05-19 15:37:59 <sacarlson> how does this line determine what port it's going to set for this address:  CAddress addr(strAddr, fAllowDNS); ?
3235 2011-05-19 15:38:00 <erbs> they said i didn't have restaurant experience
3236 2011-05-19 15:38:37 <erbs> im thinking.. is mcdonalds really a restaurant. its eems more like a biological weapons laboratory
3237 2011-05-19 15:39:20 <sacarlson> this line  CAddress addr(strAddr, fAllowDNS); seems it doesn't get the port address from -port option in config
3238 2011-05-19 15:39:27 <erbs> given the high level of unemployment (20%-30% of workers underemployed) they can afford to hire chefs with 8 years restaurant experience
3239 2011-05-19 15:39:44 <erbs> the mcdonaldization of the economy is fucked
3240 2011-05-19 15:39:51 gsathya has joined
3241 2011-05-19 15:40:18 <JFK911> that daily big mac dude seems to be pretty healthy
3242 2011-05-19 15:40:49 <diki> we have macdonalds in my country
3243 2011-05-19 15:40:55 <diki> however the burgers are very small....
3244 2011-05-19 15:41:11 <diki> although i did buy the "kid" burger...back in 2004
3245 2011-05-19 15:41:31 <diki> by the kid burger i mean it was for children etc
3246 2011-05-19 15:41:36 <diki> which i was.
3247 2011-05-19 15:41:50 <erbs> what is the appeal of mcdonalds.. is it some form of slow suicide
3248 2011-05-19 15:42:11 <diki> it's the appeal of expensive
3249 2011-05-19 15:42:31 <JFK911> which country are you in
3250 2011-05-19 15:42:36 <diki> me?
3251 2011-05-19 15:42:39 <JFK911> yea
3252 2011-05-19 15:42:44 <JFK911> it's not 'expensive' food in the usa
3253 2011-05-19 15:43:15 gsathya has quit (Client Quit)
3254 2011-05-19 15:43:43 <diki> It's Bulgaria
3255 2011-05-19 15:43:48 <directhex> the appeal of fast food is convenience and homogeneity
3256 2011-05-19 15:44:10 <directhex> i.e. it's always there, and you know what you're going to get. no experimentation, no risk
3257 2011-05-19 15:44:14 <diki> however i eat fastfood everyday
3258 2011-05-19 15:44:19 <diki> It's not mac but it's close
3259 2011-05-19 15:44:24 <diki> It's an arabian food
3260 2011-05-19 15:44:29 <vorlov> did any of u have problems with ubuntu display beofre u installed the ATI drivers?
3261 2011-05-19 15:44:30 <erbs> http://www.businessinsider.com/linked-in-ipo-2011-5-b  how morgan stanley screwed linkedin out of millions of dollars
3262 2011-05-19 15:44:34 <erbs> hundreds of millions
3263 2011-05-19 15:44:44 <JFK911> lol
3264 2011-05-19 15:44:49 <JFK911> linkedin's ipo was a huge success
3265 2011-05-19 15:45:00 <sipa> what's ipo?
3266 2011-05-19 15:45:01 <diki> It's this http://www.plovdivmedia.com/i/5453-1.jpg
3267 2011-05-19 15:45:03 <JFK911> for some investors anyway
3268 2011-05-19 15:45:10 <diki> but without the onions and tomatoes
3269 2011-05-19 15:45:24 <diki> chicken meat and very special sauce they use
3270 2011-05-19 15:45:28 <JFK911> diki: oh, yes probably there is better and less costly food where you live
3271 2011-05-19 15:45:42 <JFK911> sipa: ipo is when a company offers stock on the stock market the first time
3272 2011-05-19 15:46:18 <JFK911> diki that looks tasty
3273 2011-05-19 15:46:21 <JFK911> did you get it from turks
3274 2011-05-19 15:46:23 <erbs> well morgan stanley definitely screwed them.. they underpriced the ipo.. so linkedin only raised $45 per share, but on the first second of trading it went to $80+.. so morgan stanley and their institutional clients bought cheap and sold the next morning for around double
3275 2011-05-19 15:46:44 <diki> the shops are held by someone
3276 2011-05-19 15:46:52 <JFK911> erbs: maybe folks should wait a month to see where the price stabilizes
3277 2011-05-19 15:46:57 <diki> but otherwise, no
3278 2011-05-19 15:47:20 <erbs> "The value of LinkedIn-the-company, it seems safe to say, has not appreciated by 90%+ in the past 12 hours.  And that means that, on its underwriters' advice, LinkedIn sold its stock way too cheaply"
3279 2011-05-19 15:47:25 <diki> It's actually very good...i only wish it was made under more cleaner circumstances
3280 2011-05-19 15:47:45 <JFK911> also erbs they had a deal to sell the shares at that price
3281 2011-05-19 15:48:04 <JFK911> they didnt put ALL shares on the market
3282 2011-05-19 15:48:16 <JFK911> so they can float more
3283 2011-05-19 15:48:46 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
3284 2011-05-19 15:49:10 <erbs> the underwriter is supposed to accurately price the ipo.. they lowballed linkedin (how can they do that? there are only a handful of banks that can carry out an ipo of this size realistically and they collude on prices)
3285 2011-05-19 15:49:26 <erbs> the middle man held linkedin hostage
3286 2011-05-19 15:49:35 <jrmithdobbs> did linkedin really jump that far on first day?
3287 2011-05-19 15:49:49 <jrmithdobbs> because kickin myself for not getting that job 3 months ago now, lol
3288 2011-05-19 15:49:51 <erbs> yeah.. morgan stanley probably made $1 bn on the deal
3289 2011-05-19 15:49:57 <erbs> jrmithdobbs: hehe
3290 2011-05-19 15:50:16 <jrmithdobbs> could have actually got options that weren't toilet paper for once!
3291 2011-05-19 15:50:17 <jrmithdobbs> bah!
3292 2011-05-19 15:50:51 <JFK911> how can you predict what the market will do?
3293 2011-05-19 15:51:16 <jrmithdobbs> my crystal ball, obviously
3294 2011-05-19 15:52:32 <erbs> JFK911: the IPO scam plays out the same way usually.. the underwriters / few institutional investors froth up the price when the ipo is released - they trade between themselves at high prices to set the price.. then a lot of sheeple buy into the craze.. and a few days or weeks later the price shrinks back down again
3295 2011-05-19 15:53:23 traviscj has joined
3296 2011-05-19 15:53:34 <erbs> given the fame of linkedin it was pretty likely theyd get suckers to buy at any price
3297 2011-05-19 15:53:37 <JFK911> did google recede after its ipo frenzy?
3298 2011-05-19 15:54:05 <jgarzik> morning, all
3299 2011-05-19 15:54:15 <erbs> google is one of few exceptions.. linkedin only has $15 million income
3300 2011-05-19 15:54:20 <erbs> i think google had billions when they ipod
3301 2011-05-19 15:54:42 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: pong
3302 2011-05-19 15:54:46 * nameless !~root@weowntheinter.net|nibbles on necrodearia 
3303 2011-05-19 15:54:49 skeledrew1 has joined
3304 2011-05-19 15:54:59 right3ous has joined
3305 2011-05-19 15:55:03 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: nevermind, I was being thick
3306 2011-05-19 15:55:19 <erbs> in general, buying an IPO on the first day and holding is a losing investment..
3307 2011-05-19 15:55:47 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3308 2011-05-19 15:56:05 <nameless> !~root@weowntheinter.net|The key to IPO's is to buy, wait for it to start slowing down, then sell
3309 2011-05-19 15:56:46 Incitatus has joined
3310 2011-05-19 15:57:01 <grbgout> hmm, does bitcoin automatically log errors somewhere?
3311 2011-05-19 15:57:02 <erbs> eye pee oh
3312 2011-05-19 15:57:10 blk2011 has joined
3313 2011-05-19 15:57:23 <sipa> grbgout: debug.log
3314 2011-05-19 15:57:23 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: including the email, forget it
3315 2011-05-19 15:57:42 intractable has joined
3316 2011-05-19 15:58:08 <grbgout> sipa: thanks
3317 2011-05-19 16:01:21 <diki> in pushpool the table sharelog...i have no idea what data types to setup most of the columns
3318 2011-05-19 16:02:29 <diki> insert into shares (time,rem_host, username, our_result, upstream_result, reason, solution). Let's take the time columns...i usually use the unix time() in seconds and from then off convert the seconds in proper date format
3319 2011-05-19 16:02:45 <diki> however i don't know how pushpool stores them
3320 2011-05-19 16:03:08 <erbs> yeah.. id assume sqlite has a datetime
3321 2011-05-19 16:03:18 <erbs> formatted as YmdHis
3322 2011-05-19 16:03:58 <diki> if it's the unix time i'd store it as an intege
3323 2011-05-19 16:04:01 <diki> *integer
3324 2011-05-19 16:04:05 <diki> not as datetime
3325 2011-05-19 16:04:18 <diki> however i have no idea of it
3326 2011-05-19 16:05:01 ArtForz is now known as ArtForz|afk
3327 2011-05-19 16:06:00 <diki> i guess this answers my question to some extent
3328 2011-05-19 16:06:01 <diki> (const char *rem_host, const char *username,
3329 2011-05-19 16:06:01 <diki> 			 const char *our_result, const char *upstream_result,
3330 2011-05-19 16:06:01 <diki> 			 const char *reason, const char *solution
3331 2011-05-19 16:06:06 amiller has joined
3332 2011-05-19 16:06:08 <luke-jr> sqlite doesn't have types in the first place
3333 2011-05-19 16:06:15 <diki> really?
3334 2011-05-19 16:06:23 TD_ has joined
3335 2011-05-19 16:06:24 <diki> on the sqlite docs it clearyl uses varchar
3336 2011-05-19 16:06:27 <diki> *clearly
3337 2011-05-19 16:06:28 TD_ has quit (Client Quit)
3338 2011-05-19 16:06:32 <luke-jr> citation needed
3339 2011-05-19 16:06:32 blueadept has joined
3340 2011-05-19 16:07:56 ezl has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3341 2011-05-19 16:08:07 <phantomcircuit> diki, the types you specify in creating tables in sqlite are used as a suggestion later when trying to figure out what stuff is
3342 2011-05-19 16:08:50 <diki> so even if i set varchar(120) as username..it could be overwritten to be more than 120 characters?
3343 2011-05-19 16:08:58 <phantomcircuit> yes
3344 2011-05-19 16:09:01 <diki> and wont be truncated?
3345 2011-05-19 16:09:07 <luke-jr> http://www.sqlite.org/datatype3.html
3346 2011-05-19 16:09:20 <phantomcircuit> diki, correct
3347 2011-05-19 16:09:31 AntiVigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3348 2011-05-19 16:09:57 ar4s has joined
3349 2011-05-19 16:10:14 <erbs> interesting: "SQLite does not have a storage class set aside for storing dates and/or times. Instead, the built-in Date And Time Functions of SQLite are capable of storing dates and times as TEXT, REAL, or INTEGER values:"
3350 2011-05-19 16:10:31 <erbs> so you store the unix time
3351 2011-05-19 16:10:52 <diki> so which does pushpool use?
3352 2011-05-19 16:11:16 Tritonio has joined
3353 2011-05-19 16:11:47 <erbs> integer (unix time)
3354 2011-05-19 16:11:56 <diki> but i am exploring the code
3355 2011-05-19 16:12:10 Tritonio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3356 2011-05-19 16:12:19 Tritonio has joined
3357 2011-05-19 16:12:21 <diki> and while insert into shares (time is present...in the code i don't see anywhere an insertion of time
3358 2011-05-19 16:12:36 <diki> it skips directly to other columns
3359 2011-05-19 16:12:52 <diki> unless time is an unique column
3360 2011-05-19 16:12:53 <erbs> can you paste the insert stmt
3361 2011-05-19 16:13:08 <diki> http://pastebin.com/6HEsuD4J
3362 2011-05-19 16:13:26 <erbs> the time is probably setup to default to CURRENT_TIMESTAMP
3363 2011-05-19 16:13:48 <diki> so i'll have to define it when creating the table?
3364 2011-05-19 16:14:07 <diki> srv.db_ops->sharelog(rem_host, username, our_result...
3365 2011-05-19 16:14:12 <erbs> it would be automatically the current time at insertion
3366 2011-05-19 16:14:13 Tritonio has quit (Client Quit)
3367 2011-05-19 16:14:16 <diki> it directly starts with rem_host...time is not present
3368 2011-05-19 16:14:54 <erbs> you should see sqlite3_bind_int before the insert is executed
3369 2011-05-19 16:17:27 <diki> yes i see sqlite3_bind_int64
3370 2011-05-19 16:17:29 <erbs> bind like wine
3371 2011-05-19 16:17:34 <erbs> ok
3372 2011-05-19 16:17:41 <diki> however what does the 64 bit mean?
3373 2011-05-19 16:17:45 <erbs> thats the time
3374 2011-05-19 16:18:03 <diki> shouldnt just int suffice?
3375 2011-05-19 16:18:32 <erbs> it should.. but on 64-bit hardware time_t is a signed int (64 bit)
3376 2011-05-19 16:18:36 Moonies has joined
3377 2011-05-19 16:18:42 <diki> mine is 32
3378 2011-05-19 16:19:14 theboos has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3379 2011-05-19 16:19:15 <erbs> yeah in that case it will just be promoted to 64 bit without any loss of data
3380 2011-05-19 16:19:42 <diki> i see goto out; a lot...but no out defined anywhere
3381 2011-05-19 16:20:00 <erbs> sqlite will jigle it around and do 64 bit comparisons
3382 2011-05-19 16:21:47 <erbs> maybe out: is a macro
3383 2011-05-19 16:21:48 noot has joined
3384 2011-05-19 16:21:55 <erbs> a cleanup macro.. dunno
3385 2011-05-19 16:22:01 <diki> One probably last question...will i have to make an autoincrement field?
3386 2011-05-19 16:22:09 <erbs> dont think so
3387 2011-05-19 16:22:33 <diki> i'm thankful php has a class for handling sqlite3 db files
3388 2011-05-19 16:22:44 <erbs> yeah its cool
3389 2011-05-19 16:22:44 <diki> the cake is not a lie
3390 2011-05-19 16:22:57 <luke-jr> oh yes it is
3391 2011-05-19 16:23:02 <luke-jr> you'll find out why later
3392 2011-05-19 16:23:02 Schematografter has joined
3393 2011-05-19 16:23:28 <diki> do share luke skywalker
3394 2011-05-19 16:23:41 Schematografter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3395 2011-05-19 16:23:50 <luke-jr> sqlite has major performance issues ;)
3396 2011-05-19 16:23:59 <lupine_85> no it doesn't :)
3397 2011-05-19 16:24:03 <diki> i could always switch to mysql
3398 2011-05-19 16:24:16 <erbs> shouldnt matter much as long as your insert is asynchronous
3399 2011-05-19 16:24:19 <lupine_85> (just ensure your primary key field is an integer named int)
3400 2011-05-19 16:24:24 <diki>  asynchronous?
3401 2011-05-19 16:24:27 <lianj> Diablo-D3: does cpu mining on you miner work without x11?
3402 2011-05-19 16:24:32 Tritonio has joined
3403 2011-05-19 16:24:34 Titeuf_87 has joined
3404 2011-05-19 16:25:12 blk2011 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3405 2011-05-19 16:25:13 <luke-jr> erbs: don't bet on it :P
3406 2011-05-19 16:25:31 <erbs> http://www.sqlite.org/asyncvfs.html
3407 2011-05-19 16:25:32 <luke-jr> sqlite likes to lock the db for read and write, so … :p
3408 2011-05-19 16:25:42 <XX01XX> Diablo won't do cpu mining, AFAIK... if you down have an OpenCL supported card is just gives an error
3409 2011-05-19 16:25:47 <XX01XX> don't
3410 2011-05-19 16:25:52 <diki> i bet it will like me kicking it in the binary ass
3411 2011-05-19 16:26:16 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3412 2011-05-19 16:26:36 <diki> I've already picked the right theme for the pool
3413 2011-05-19 16:26:47 <erbs> i mean.. the main time is hashing.. i doubt async sqlite vs. blocking would give you any noticeable change in throughput on hashwork
3414 2011-05-19 16:27:04 <Diablo-D3> lianj: do NOT cpu mine with opencl
3415 2011-05-19 16:27:09 underscor has joined
3416 2011-05-19 16:27:12 <Diablo-D3> and mine specifically locks out cpus for mining
3417 2011-05-19 16:27:45 <Diablo-D3> lianj: there is at least one dedicated cpu miner out there... and the whole thing is dead, the cost of power to a cpu costs more than the coins are worth
3418 2011-05-19 16:28:18 <lianj> Diablo-D3: its not for me anyway. but then deepbit should say "GPU/CPU :: DiabloMiner java miner" on their help site
3419 2011-05-19 16:28:44 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, depends on the cost of power
3420 2011-05-19 16:29:13 * erbs vomits into a tree
3421 2011-05-19 16:29:21 <erbs> i had some bad tunafish
3422 2011-05-19 16:29:56 <Diablo-D3> lianj: no it shouldnt, my miner does NOT support cpu mining, do NOT opencl mine on cpus, its about 5 times slower than using a cpu miner
3423 2011-05-19 16:30:13 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: i don't know after this last diff bump but it was "marginally" profitable last diff like, very slightly so
3424 2011-05-19 16:30:25 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: its dumb
3425 2011-05-19 16:30:26 <jrmithdobbs> still not worth it
3426 2011-05-19 16:30:41 <Diablo-D3> my 5850 does 300 mhash, the fastest cpu does like 25
3427 2011-05-19 16:30:43 <lianj> Diablo-D3: i know about cpumining. its for someone else. ok so mr.deepbit please drop that info from you site :D
3428 2011-05-19 16:30:51 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: right
3429 2011-05-19 16:31:04 <Diablo-D3> lianj: thats [Tycho]
3430 2011-05-19 16:31:32 <lianj> [Tycho]: ^
3431 2011-05-19 16:32:04 <erbs> christburger
3432 2011-05-19 16:33:17 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,gen 25000
3433 2011-05-19 16:33:18 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 25000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 0.102997308553 BTC per day and 0.00429155452305 BTC per hour.
3434 2011-05-19 16:34:09 <phantomcircuit> 0.030040882 USD/hour
3435 2011-05-19 16:34:27 <erbs> hmm
3436 2011-05-19 16:34:30 <erbs> more than im making now unemployed
3437 2011-05-19 16:34:54 * BlueMatt just shit himself...osx just boot sans modifications in virtualbox without any kind of mods...
3438 2011-05-19 16:35:02 <sipa> :o
3439 2011-05-19 16:35:15 <sipa> BlueMatt: really?
3440 2011-05-19 16:35:22 <sipa> and where did you get the image?
3441 2011-05-19 16:35:25 <BlueMatt> well Ive got a spinning cursor
3442 2011-05-19 16:35:29 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: autotools hates me (it's mutual) got any quick tips for adding a new db type to pushpool?
3443 2011-05-19 16:35:45 <BlueMatt> might need to add something to get it to think it has apple's smc thingy...
3444 2011-05-19 16:35:55 <phantomcircuit> erbs, that's before you account for power costs
3445 2011-05-19 16:35:56 <UukGoblin> hrm, this is actually kinda 'meh'
3446 2011-05-19 16:35:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: running the installer, or what?
3447 2011-05-19 16:35:59 <vorlov> are there problems installing the latest ATi driversin ubuntu natty
3448 2011-05-19 16:36:00 <vorlov> ?
3449 2011-05-19 16:36:01 <diki> the fastest multi-cpu does 60
3450 2011-05-19 16:36:01 <BlueMatt> the image definitely wasnt from tpb or anything else illegal
3451 2011-05-19 16:36:04 <phantomcircuit> erbs, that would be like a 100W cpu
3452 2011-05-19 16:36:05 <BlueMatt> iso installer
3453 2011-05-19 16:36:11 <phantomcircuit> 0.030040882 USD/hour profit
3454 2011-05-19 16:36:14 <phantomcircuit> er
3455 2011-05-19 16:36:14 <UukGoblin> from miner's perspective, tx fees going down is a bad thing
3456 2011-05-19 16:36:17 <phantomcircuit> 0.030040882 USD/hour revenue
3457 2011-05-19 16:37:00 <BlueMatt> hm, nope it needs a different boot iso to get it to think it has the smc mod thinggy...
3458 2011-05-19 16:37:07 <BlueMatt> still not very hard to get it working
3459 2011-05-19 16:37:10 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3460 2011-05-19 16:37:30 <vorlov> ?
3461 2011-05-19 16:39:56 <erbs> hashclash
3462 2011-05-19 16:39:57 <sipa> BlueMatt: would be nice if osx builds could be automated with that
3463 2011-05-19 16:40:38 <BlueMatt> sipa: automated...probably not, but Im looking into at least doing osx builds
3464 2011-05-19 16:41:13 <BlueMatt> I have an old patcher for vmware, that patches any vmware install and just lets you install unmodified osx on it, but vmware never updates their crap for new kernels so Im looking into virtualbox
3465 2011-05-19 16:42:56 <XX01XX> rather than seeing an endlessly incrementing confirmation count... could that column be replaced with estimated txn fees?
3466 2011-05-19 16:43:21 <sipa> ?
3467 2011-05-19 16:44:13 eao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3468 2011-05-19 16:44:20 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
3469 2011-05-19 16:44:21 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125109 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1898 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 10 hours, 24 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 260826.81909114
3470 2011-05-19 16:45:21 <diki> if i have double or triple port forwarding...how much will this slow down connection to the server/pool?
3471 2011-05-19 16:45:31 <vorlov> im getting this weird error while trying to install fglrx on natty
3472 2011-05-19 16:45:34 <vorlov> 11.04
3473 2011-05-19 16:45:41 <vorlov> Setting up fglrx (2:8.841-0ubuntu1~xup) ...
3474 2011-05-19 16:45:41 <vorlov> update-alternatives: using /usr/lib/fglrx/ld.so.conf to provide /etc/ld.so.conf.d/GL.conf (gl_conf) in auto mode.
3475 2011-05-19 16:45:42 <vorlov> update-alternatives: error: unable to make /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so.dpkg-tmp a symlink to /etc/alternatives/fglrx_drv: No such file or directory
3476 2011-05-19 16:45:46 <vorlov> anyone encountered that?
3477 2011-05-19 16:46:02 eao has joined
3478 2011-05-19 16:47:10 xnyhps has left ()
3479 2011-05-19 16:47:32 traviscj has joined
3480 2011-05-19 16:47:48 zchapple has joined
3481 2011-05-19 16:47:58 <psymin> vorlov: I haven't .. #ati is usually pretty dead but someone there might have encountered it :)
3482 2011-05-19 16:48:23 <zchapple> hello all, i have a couple of newb questions
3483 2011-05-19 16:48:26 <phantomcircuit> 2000 Ghash/s
3484 2011-05-19 16:48:48 <zchapple> i read the site but i am still a little confused, do the coins get distributed at random after a certain number of blocks or does everyone get some
3485 2011-05-19 16:48:57 <jrmithdobbs> man, autotools can diaf
3486 2011-05-19 16:49:01 <jrmithdobbs> m4 is retarded
3487 2011-05-19 16:49:03 <phantomcircuit> hmm that's not good
3488 2011-05-19 16:49:06 * jrmithdobbs /rant
3489 2011-05-19 16:49:14 <phantomcircuit> 2000 Ghash/s is 2000000 Mhash/s
3490 2011-05-19 16:49:47 <phantomcircuit> 2000000 Mhash/s / 300 Mhash/s = 6666 5870s
3491 2011-05-19 16:49:54 <phantomcircuit> which is only like 2 million dollars
3492 2011-05-19 16:49:55 XX01XX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3493 2011-05-19 16:50:11 <phantomcircuit> so you could buy half the network power for about a million bucks
3494 2011-05-19 16:50:48 vorlov has left ()
3495 2011-05-19 16:52:24 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|phantomcircuit, well that and a lil power to run the 6666 cards
3496 2011-05-19 16:52:37 AntiVigilante has joined
3497 2011-05-19 16:52:46 <diki> can you guys tell me what all those ports for?
3498 2011-05-19 16:52:47 <diki> http://pastebin.com/rYjWKAbz
3499 2011-05-19 16:53:02 <diki> i thought 8332 is for bitcoinD and 8337 for the pushpool
3500 2011-05-19 16:53:14 <diki> then what is 8338 and 8336 for?
3501 2011-05-19 16:53:36 <jrmithdobbs> diki: it's clearly documented in the source
3502 2011-05-19 16:53:48 <diki> erm no...pushpool lacks any documentation
3503 2011-05-19 16:54:00 <diki> it's figure it out on your own...
3504 2011-05-19 16:54:06 <diki> no pun intended
3505 2011-05-19 16:54:09 <currentB> anyone know where I can get historic tick data?
3506 2011-05-19 16:55:07 <jrmithdobbs> diki: it is clearly documented in the example config file what those ports are
3507 2011-05-19 16:55:13 <jrmithdobbs> diki: not making this up. i've read it.
3508 2011-05-19 16:55:30 <diki> it just says # network ports lol
3509 2011-05-19 16:55:34 <diki> nothing else
3510 2011-05-19 16:55:37 <jrmithdobbs> git pull
3511 2011-05-19 16:55:39 <jrmithdobbs> tard
3512 2011-05-19 16:56:14 <diki> I shall see. And please, do not call me tard
3513 2011-05-19 16:56:29 <erbs> some some herbs
3514 2011-05-19 16:56:36 <diki> https://github.com/jgarzik/pushpool/blob/master/example-cfg.json
3515 2011-05-19 16:56:40 <diki> nothing documented there
3516 2011-05-19 16:57:16 zchapple has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3517 2011-05-19 16:58:59 <erbs> im in the cloud bro
3518 2011-05-19 16:59:14 <diki> you have a chromebook?
3519 2011-05-19 16:59:46 <lfm> cloud of smoke
3520 2011-05-19 17:00:23 <Raccoon> Who is the bot owner from #bitcoin-watch?
3521 2011-05-19 17:00:41 <diki> Anyway..what are those ports? # binary protocol (default), port 8336 tells me nothing
3522 2011-05-19 17:00:50 <Raccoon> or, was anyone present in #bitcoin-watch on the 11th who has a channel log?
3523 2011-05-19 17:01:01 XX01XX has joined
3524 2011-05-19 17:01:07 <diki> except that something may be running on port 8336
3525 2011-05-19 17:01:33 kwoodie has joined
3526 2011-05-19 17:01:57 <lfm> diki if your not using it, turn it off
3527 2011-05-19 17:02:12 <diki> i have no idea what it's for
3528 2011-05-19 17:02:16 <kwoodie> hey.  Quick question.... how long does it typically take to download the inital bitcoin block chain for a new mining node
3529 2011-05-19 17:02:39 <erbs> an hour or so
3530 2011-05-19 17:03:03 <kwoodie> k.  do you know what the total number of blocks currently is?  Just trying to figure out how close I am
3531 2011-05-19 17:03:08 <erbs> ;;bc,blocks
3532 2011-05-19 17:03:08 <gribble> 125111
3533 2011-05-19 17:03:40 <kwoodie> great!  I am at like 119000
3534 2011-05-19 17:03:48 <diki> that is a hundred and twenty thousand, eleven hundred and one
3535 2011-05-19 17:04:04 <diki> oops, missed the five
3536 2011-05-19 17:04:05 altamic has joined
3537 2011-05-19 17:04:16 <sirius> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8956.0 Bitcoin as a wallet server
3538 2011-05-19 17:04:31 <jrmithdobbs> diki: did you seriously just link the documentation i was referring to and then say it wasn't documented?
3539 2011-05-19 17:04:36 <jrmithdobbs> diki: learn to read
3540 2011-05-19 17:05:18 <diki> i am reading it...there is nothing there
3541 2011-05-19 17:05:24 <diki> binary protocol means nothing to me lol
3542 2011-05-19 17:05:27 <diki> what does it mean?
3543 2011-05-19 17:05:37 <diki> it's not explained. You may be psychic, i am not
3544 2011-05-19 17:06:11 skeledrew has joined
3545 2011-05-19 17:06:45 <jrmithdobbs> diki: it is a binary re-implementation of the rpc protocol
3546 2011-05-19 17:06:51 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3547 2011-05-19 17:06:52 <jrmithdobbs> diki: search for the forum for details
3548 2011-05-19 17:06:57 <diki> do i need it or not?
3549 2011-05-19 17:06:59 <jrmithdobbs> s/for//
3550 2011-05-19 17:07:14 <jrmithdobbs> diki: only if you have miners using it.
3551 2011-05-19 17:07:44 <diki> any miner and/or pool uses only 8332 if it's custom or 8337
3552 2011-05-19 17:07:57 <diki> so no, i believe i will not use that port
3553 2011-05-19 17:10:23 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3554 2011-05-19 17:10:46 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3555 2011-05-19 17:10:54 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3556 2011-05-19 17:11:00 <phantomcircuit> Marcel|HSD, my point was that a dedicated attacker who has a couple million to burn to kill bitcoin could do it
3557 2011-05-19 17:12:16 underscor has joined
3558 2011-05-19 17:12:31 <Marcel> HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|phantomcircuit,  true, but I think it is much harder than just throwing cards and money at it
3559 2011-05-19 17:13:15 TheAncientGoat has quit ()
3560 2011-05-19 17:14:54 <phantomcircuit> Marcel|HSD, yeah you'd have to convince peopel to trade with you and then double or triple spend
3561 2011-05-19 17:15:21 <lfm> phantomcircuit: yup, they could just buy enuf GPU to have 51% of the processing power at that price
3562 2011-05-19 17:15:29 <phantomcircuit> lfm, yeah
3563 2011-05-19 17:16:10 <lfm> its not hard, you just need the money and the will
3564 2011-05-19 17:16:54 <lfm> and so people will be worried every time the net doubles
3565 2011-05-19 17:17:03 <erbs> linkedin is $100+ now
3566 2011-05-19 17:17:09 <erbs> excess liquidity in the market anyone?
3567 2011-05-19 17:18:06 <JFK911> ha
3568 2011-05-19 17:18:33 <erbs> looks like its peaked at $115 and is now hovering at $105
3569 2011-05-19 17:19:16 <erbs> if you bought this morning you're up 25%
3570 2011-05-19 17:19:39 <phantomcircuit> erbs, i talked to some people who work at linkedin, apparently they're revenues have been basically constant a long time now
3571 2011-05-19 17:20:04 <Dek> nah wouldnt need 50% with the pools. All you'd hav to do is knock off enough pools with a DDOS attack that your remaining hashing power was 50% of the total WITHOUT them
3572 2011-05-19 17:20:15 <Dek> much less than 50%
3573 2011-05-19 17:20:33 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3574 2011-05-19 17:20:33 <Dek> not to mention deepbit has already hit 50% so bitcoin is entirely operated on the TRUST of deepbit
3575 2011-05-19 17:20:38 <Dek> when that happens
3576 2011-05-19 17:20:56 <phantomcircuit> Dek, im 90% sure that the nsa could simply crash everybodies bitcoind right now
3577 2011-05-19 17:21:09 <Dek> sure but i am saying it isnt necessary to have 50% hash power
3578 2011-05-19 17:21:12 <Dek> to inject double spends
3579 2011-05-19 17:22:03 <erbs> http://www.jovoto.com/contests/300house/landing
3580 2011-05-19 17:22:06 <therap1st> Dek: people would notice and leav
3581 2011-05-19 17:22:13 <therap1st> Dek: leave deepbit for good
3582 2011-05-19 17:22:22 <therap1st> its good miners are usually familiar with the protocol
3583 2011-05-19 17:22:23 <Dek> ya right, like they did last time? most people on the forum said "so what i dont care" when deepbit hit 50%
3584 2011-05-19 17:22:50 <therap1st> i meant leave when tycho would do something nefarious
3585 2011-05-19 17:22:50 <Dek> next time will be the same people wont care wont think it matters until its too late and something does something significant
3586 2011-05-19 17:23:02 <erbs> most ppl dont mind bne irradiated by naked body scanners at airports...
3587 2011-05-19 17:23:02 <therap1st> what do you mean too late?
3588 2011-05-19 17:23:11 <Dek> as in a ton of double spends already occur
3589 2011-05-19 17:23:16 <Dek> and people slowly catch on
3590 2011-05-19 17:23:23 <erbs> well i suppose they mind, but they are unwilling to take action
3591 2011-05-19 17:23:40 <therap1st> Dek: blockchain is valid only without double spends
3592 2011-05-19 17:24:02 Sedra- has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
3593 2011-05-19 17:24:19 <Dek> I honestly dont know that much about it technically. But can you reorganize block chain to reassign ownership by removing selective transfers (assuming 50% hash control)
3594 2011-05-19 17:24:31 <therap1st> Dek: you need to be nefarious all the time
3595 2011-05-19 17:24:37 <therap1st> for the blockchain to remain valid
3596 2011-05-19 17:24:40 <therap1st> its not stop-n-go
3597 2011-05-19 17:24:49 <therap1st> note that broken block occured in august
3598 2011-05-19 17:24:56 <therap1st> it was fixed within week
3599 2011-05-19 17:25:05 <lfm> dek can be very selective, you have to reorg a whole branch of the chain
3600 2011-05-19 17:25:19 <lfm> cant be selective I mean
3601 2011-05-19 17:25:23 <erbs> im chained down to a block
3602 2011-05-19 17:25:30 <Dek> lol
3603 2011-05-19 17:25:54 <Dek> Well, I hope it never happens. There needs to be publicly available pool kits so people spread out the hashing power more
3604 2011-05-19 17:25:56 <therap1st> Dek: people will leave deepbit and fork the blockchain with correct txes. period.
3605 2011-05-19 17:26:00 <lfm> therap1st: it was fixed within hours
3606 2011-05-19 17:26:10 <therap1st> lfm: well i meant full recovery
3607 2011-05-19 17:26:17 <lfm> full recovery
3608 2011-05-19 17:26:32 <therap1st> txes didnt fully verify for much longer afaik
3609 2011-05-19 17:26:50 <lfm> the net was fixed and running normally on a legal chain within hours
3610 2011-05-19 17:26:53 <therap1st> people had to redownload blockchain etc
3611 2011-05-19 17:27:05 <Dek> So even if a ton of peers are corrupted by a faulty blockchain generated by a nefarious actor it would be possible to somehow fix that?
3612 2011-05-19 17:27:15 <therap1st> lfm: "the net was fixed" meant people need to update their clients in case of client bug
3613 2011-05-19 17:27:17 <Dek> how could you overwhelm all those peers saying it was correct
3614 2011-05-19 17:27:25 <lfm> the bad txn hung about trying to reinfect for a while but they were ignored after that
3615 2011-05-19 17:27:37 <therap1st> yep
3616 2011-05-19 17:27:38 <Dek> hm well good to know
3617 2011-05-19 17:27:46 <therap1st> but that was client bug
3618 2011-05-19 17:27:47 <BlueMatt> sipa: in case you were interested, got it working really easily via a bootloader
3619 2011-05-19 17:27:53 <therap1st> which was much more dangerous
3620 2011-05-19 17:28:10 <therap1st> Dek: actually client bugs is what you need to worry about
3621 2011-05-19 17:28:15 <therap1st> because if someone did just something subtle
3622 2011-05-19 17:28:29 <therap1st> and it would be deep in the chain, it would be really shit situation
3623 2011-05-19 17:28:38 <Dek> good point the client annoys the shit out of me with required transfer fees
3624 2011-05-19 17:28:47 <Dek> but thats another issue =P
3625 2011-05-19 17:29:32 vorlov_ has joined
3626 2011-05-19 17:29:49 <lfm> dek that is essentially a bug also. just use older version
3627 2011-05-19 17:29:51 <therap1st> i still hope the tx spam issue will be resolved somehow
3628 2011-05-19 17:30:03 <therap1st> other than tx fees
3629 2011-05-19 17:30:19 <therap1st> fees were meant to give priority, not as workaround.
3630 2011-05-19 17:30:24 mosimo has joined
3631 2011-05-19 17:30:30 <erbs> tx spam?
3632 2011-05-19 17:30:30 <Dek> as priority they are a good concept
3633 2011-05-19 17:30:51 <luke-jr> therap1st: fees were always inevitable
3634 2011-05-19 17:30:57 <therap1st> sure
3635 2011-05-19 17:31:04 <Dek> Wouldnt the spam issue be moot if they integrated the merkle tree pruning of the block chain?
3636 2011-05-19 17:31:11 <luke-jr> Dek: no
3637 2011-05-19 17:31:11 <erbs> if you detect transaction spam you can just prune the offending bitcoin address at the root and "reclaim" the bitcoins
3638 2011-05-19 17:31:11 <therap1st> however now people are under suspicion that miners inject zero fee tx spam
3639 2011-05-19 17:31:12 <lfm> erbs: ya, people find out txn are free so they think it would be fun to send 1000s of txn to themselves
3640 2011-05-19 17:31:12 <Dek> so that it didnt grow without limit
3641 2011-05-19 17:31:16 <therap1st> so they can make more per block
3642 2011-05-19 17:31:17 <therap1st> :)
3643 2011-05-19 17:31:32 <therap1st> that needs to be fixed
3644 2011-05-19 17:31:38 <luke-jr> Dek: pruning only cleans up legit txns
3645 2011-05-19 17:31:42 <Dek> Who cares how many they send if the blockchain was pruned?
3646 2011-05-19 17:31:44 <erbs> oh, how do they make more by publishing spam tx?
3647 2011-05-19 17:31:50 <Dek> and only the last relative one exists in block chain?
3648 2011-05-19 17:31:58 <therap1st> erbs: forcing you to use fees.
3649 2011-05-19 17:32:03 <therap1st> for legit txes
3650 2011-05-19 17:32:07 vorlov_ is now known as vorlov
3651 2011-05-19 17:32:09 <erbs> oh
3652 2011-05-19 17:32:15 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3653 2011-05-19 17:32:16 <lfm> erbs: resend the same txn to themselves over and over
3654 2011-05-19 17:32:25 <luke-jr> therap1st: my solution is simple
3655 2011-05-19 17:32:32 <luke-jr> I just require a miniscule fee for txns.
3656 2011-05-19 17:32:43 <lfm> not simple
3657 2011-05-19 17:32:46 <luke-jr> blocks the spam, and encourages people to pay fees
3658 2011-05-19 17:32:55 <therap1st> luke-jr: so?
3659 2011-05-19 17:32:58 <Dek> the problem is the fluctuating value of bitcoin -- who can say whether 0.1 will be a shitton or nothing at all in 1 year?
3660 2011-05-19 17:32:58 <therap1st> luke-jr: it's a race
3661 2011-05-19 17:32:59 <Dek> no
3662 2011-05-19 17:33:01 <Dek> no one
3663 2011-05-19 17:33:13 Stellar has joined
3664 2011-05-19 17:33:17 <therap1st> luke-jr: if they solve a block with their (even miniscule fee spam) then the fee didnt work
3665 2011-05-19 17:33:22 <UukGoblin> luke-jr, and earns you more money ;-]
3666 2011-05-19 17:33:40 <luke-jr> therap1st: it works for me at least :p
3667 2011-05-19 17:33:51 <therap1st> and zero fee txes dont work at all
3668 2011-05-19 17:33:55 <luke-jr> UukGoblin: right, but it should prove I have no motive to tx spam ;p
3669 2011-05-19 17:33:56 <therap1st> which sucks i i want to just send 0.01
3670 2011-05-19 17:34:01 <edcba> fee isn't a good tool to fight tx spam
3671 2011-05-19 17:34:02 <lfm> luke-jr: you still need to accept blocks with spam in them
3672 2011-05-19 17:34:03 <therap1st> gj miners
3673 2011-05-19 17:34:03 <wumpus> Dek: it has been around $7 for a few days already, we're approaching stability! lol
3674 2011-05-19 17:34:05 <edcba> that's it
3675 2011-05-19 17:34:18 <vorlov> ;;bc,mtgox
3676 2011-05-19 17:34:19 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.34,"low":6.6,"vol":24106,"buy":6.91,"sell":6.9885,"last":6.915}}
3677 2011-05-19 17:34:21 vorlov has left ()
3678 2011-05-19 17:34:51 <lfm> wupus I expect they will want more than a few days, try a few months
3679 2011-05-19 17:34:51 <Dek> ive been watching the price. I dont expect it to last under current market dynamics. The only thing keeping it rising was the ridiculous notion that some miners have that btc are worth 200$
3680 2011-05-19 17:34:52 <Dek> lol
3681 2011-05-19 17:35:00 <Dek> hoarders
3682 2011-05-19 17:35:30 <Mookman288> hoarding will always lead to steeper prices, if all other things are equal
3683 2011-05-19 17:35:33 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3684 2011-05-19 17:35:34 <edcba> yes $200 is risible
3685 2011-05-19 17:35:41 <edcba> it worth a lot more !
3686 2011-05-19 17:35:53 <erbs> kuhl beenz
3687 2011-05-19 17:36:00 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 10000 1
3688 2011-05-19 17:36:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 7 minutes and 9 seconds
3689 2011-05-19 17:36:04 Astrohacker has joined
3690 2011-05-19 17:36:05 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 12000 1
3691 2011-05-19 17:36:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 12000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 5 minutes and 57 seconds
3692 2011-05-19 17:36:09 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 8000 1
3693 2011-05-19 17:36:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 8000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 8 minutes and 56 seconds
3694 2011-05-19 17:36:11 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 5000 1
3695 2011-05-19 17:36:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 14 minutes and 18 seconds
3696 2011-05-19 17:36:14 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 6000 1
3697 2011-05-19 17:36:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 11 minutes and 55 seconds
3698 2011-05-19 17:36:18 <phantomcircuit> lol spam
3699 2011-05-19 17:36:19 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 7000 1
3700 2011-05-19 17:36:20 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 7000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 10 minutes and 13 seconds
3701 2011-05-19 17:36:24 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: lol :D
3702 2011-05-19 17:36:26 <therap1st> luke-jr: stfu :)
3703 2011-05-19 17:36:32 <therap1st> btw - solution to tx spam is actually not limiting the block size
3704 2011-05-19 17:36:48 <lfm> miners luke-jr use /mgs gribble perhaps?
3705 2011-05-19 17:36:49 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, simply require a tiny tx fee
3706 2011-05-19 17:36:51 <phantomcircuit> magic
3707 2011-05-19 17:37:00 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: see above, it's a race.
3708 2011-05-19 17:37:10 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, a race?
3709 2011-05-19 17:37:12 <x5x> therap1st, race to waht ?
3710 2011-05-19 17:37:19 <luke-jr> therap1st: if nobody accepts no-fee txns, then there's no spam
3711 2011-05-19 17:37:33 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: if you spend 0.1BTC on spam and make 10BTC in tx fees
3712 2011-05-19 17:37:35 <Pilate> is there any documentation available on whats required to write a miner? or is it mostly based on looking through the source of other miners?
3713 2011-05-19 17:37:41 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: then your solution does not work
3714 2011-05-19 17:37:55 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, you mean a spammer who is also mining?
3715 2011-05-19 17:38:00 <wumpus> Pilate:  you can read on how sha256 works 
3716 2011-05-19 17:38:03 <Dek> mookman: all i meant by that is that they wont hoard forever. Right now, yes, its leading to steeper prices. but at some point more and more will feel comfortable dumping their holdings massively increasing the total currency supply in circulation (w/o a relative increase in demand from people buying stuff with bitcoins since no one but the hoarders has any to spend)
3717 2011-05-19 17:38:05 <therap1st> who do you think is spamming, lol
3718 2011-05-19 17:38:10 <lfm> luke-jr: spam could use miniscule fees if they are too low they would allow spam, you just dont see it yet
3719 2011-05-19 17:38:17 <x5x> therap1st, isnt tehre also the cost of teh mining itself ?
3720 2011-05-19 17:38:31 <therap1st> x5x: huh, they get always their 50BTC
3721 2011-05-19 17:38:35 <erbs> spamalamadingdong
3722 2011-05-19 17:38:37 <therap1st> but you can make much more in fees
3723 2011-05-19 17:38:40 <therap1st> just spam the network
3724 2011-05-19 17:38:40 <therap1st> :))
3725 2011-05-19 17:38:45 <Mookman288> Dek: A certain amount of people will always hoard. I was just commenting that so long as people continue to hoard in ever increasing numbers of BTC, so will the price rise.
3726 2011-05-19 17:38:51 traviscj has joined
3727 2011-05-19 17:38:52 <luke-jr> lfm: it couldn't go on forever
3728 2011-05-19 17:39:00 <luke-jr> it'd be lossy spamming
3729 2011-05-19 17:39:01 <Pilate> wumpus: thats the easy part :P i dont quite get whats going on within a miner in relation to blocks/pools
3730 2011-05-19 17:39:03 <erbs> hoard my board
3731 2011-05-19 17:39:03 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, you clearly have no clue :|
3732 2011-05-19 17:39:07 <Dek> but you would agree there is a breaking point where even hoarders will cash out right?
3733 2011-05-19 17:39:11 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3734 2011-05-19 17:39:19 <Dek> aka "the top of the bubble" ?
3735 2011-05-19 17:39:28 <lfm> luke so they are limited to a million txn for 1 btc?
3736 2011-05-19 17:39:52 <luke-jr> lfm: depends on the fee
3737 2011-05-19 17:39:54 <Mookman288> There is no solidified breaking point where hoarders will cash out. Certain people will cash out when it's most convenient. Others will cash out when they believe it's profitable.
3738 2011-05-19 17:39:58 <lfm> yup
3739 2011-05-19 17:40:09 <x5x> therap1st, would teh spam txs have any fees on them ?
3740 2011-05-19 17:40:11 <Mookman288> I'm sure someone cashed out when it hit $8, because they thought that was fantastic.
3741 2011-05-19 17:40:21 <phantomcircuit> Mookman288, 8.3
3742 2011-05-19 17:40:21 <therap1st> x5x: it's race, or spam market if you wish
3743 2011-05-19 17:40:25 <luke-jr> lfm: 24k txns by my fee
3744 2011-05-19 17:40:27 <wumpus> Pilate:  it's just a matter of a jsonrpc interface to request work, and one to send back the proof of work
3745 2011-05-19 17:40:31 <therap1st> x5x: you need to run stats on previous history to make it profitable
3746 2011-05-19 17:40:31 <Mookman288> phantomcircuit: My mistake.
3747 2011-05-19 17:40:35 <lfm> x5x the current ones dont
3748 2011-05-19 17:40:42 <wumpus> Pilate: but yeah the best is to look at a miner, it's very simple
3749 2011-05-19 17:40:44 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, there is no race, transaction fees come out of the btc being moved
3750 2011-05-19 17:40:47 ntosme2 has joined
3751 2011-05-19 17:40:47 <Pilate> wumpus: but the work is what i dont understand
3752 2011-05-19 17:40:52 <Pilate> alrighty
3753 2011-05-19 17:40:53 <Dek> the only people that matter are the people like knightmb who have 371k bitcoins
3754 2011-05-19 17:41:00 <Dek> massive percentage of the entire supply
3755 2011-05-19 17:41:10 <erbs> wow
3756 2011-05-19 17:41:10 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, transaction fees are not generated btc, they come directly from whoever is doing the transaction
3757 2011-05-19 17:41:12 <erbs> whos that
3758 2011-05-19 17:41:25 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: exactly. so you tap fees of regular people
3759 2011-05-19 17:41:26 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, you seem to believe that transaction spam makes more money for miners, it does not
3760 2011-05-19 17:41:32 <Dek> look on the forum he was bragging yesterday about his wealth. He apparently tricked investors into selling him the btc for 5k
3761 2011-05-19 17:41:33 <Dek> $
3762 2011-05-19 17:41:45 <erbs> interesting
3763 2011-05-19 17:41:45 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: stating so, or did you actually try to spam?
3764 2011-05-19 17:41:49 <erbs> how on earth
3765 2011-05-19 17:41:58 <erbs> dek, forum link ? :)
3766 2011-05-19 17:42:03 <Dek> he invested 12k early 2010, one sec ill get you the link
3767 2011-05-19 17:42:08 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, that last sentence doesn't make any sense
3768 2011-05-19 17:42:20 <erbs> oh he bought it back in the day
3769 2011-05-19 17:42:21 <Dek> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6825.0;all
3770 2011-05-19 17:42:27 <Dek> he just bought it this week
3771 2011-05-19 17:42:28 <phantomcircuit> Dek, that's a huge investment which at the time was massively risky
3772 2011-05-19 17:42:34 <wumpus> Dek: I wish people like himwere mere involved in financing the development of the client / services using bitcoin
3773 2011-05-19 17:42:34 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: just saying so does not work. read arguments and prove it wrong. :(
3774 2011-05-19 17:42:42 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: otherwise it seems youre just butthurt
3775 2011-05-19 17:42:46 <Dek> yeah but it supports my argument that there are a few hoarders who may have undue power over the market
3776 2011-05-19 17:42:55 <lfm> phantomcircuit: how do you mean fees dont  make money for miners?
3777 2011-05-19 17:42:56 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, facepalm
3778 2011-05-19 17:42:57 <x5x> therap1st, you're saying that by spamming txs w no or tiny fees on them, it requires regular users to add fees to their txs... and then if you mine taht block, u get all the fees
3779 2011-05-19 17:43:03 <x5x> so basiclaly ur driving up the fee price for normal suers ?
3780 2011-05-19 17:43:07 <phantomcircuit> lfm, i mean it's not generated,
3781 2011-05-19 17:43:12 <therap1st> x5x: exactly.
3782 2011-05-19 17:43:15 <therap1st> x5x: its a spam market
3783 2011-05-19 17:43:19 <lfm> so, the miners get it!
3784 2011-05-19 17:43:21 <x5x> yea thats intersting
3785 2011-05-19 17:43:32 <Mookman288> Dek: Sell large mass of bitcoins at high prices. Buy them back when prices drop because of increase in circulation.
3786 2011-05-19 17:43:45 <therap1st> x5x: run stats over tx volume first before you try that :)
3787 2011-05-19 17:43:56 <x5x> im not gonna try it, jsut trying to think if it could be profitable
3788 2011-05-19 17:44:06 <Dek> yeah thanks for the advice but id never buy bitcoins with real money b/c of this situation -- any time someone like him could walk in (ignoring market fundamentals) and half the price of btc in a day
3789 2011-05-19 17:44:11 <Dek> he probably wouldnt want to but he could
3790 2011-05-19 17:44:29 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, oh i see what you're saying, yeah sorry that's a valid point, but your math is off
3791 2011-05-19 17:44:31 <erbs> knightmb sold most of his btc im sure
3792 2011-05-19 17:44:39 <x5x> if you can do it w/ 0-fee txs theres not really any cost right ?
3793 2011-05-19 17:44:40 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, i'll run the numbers for you one sec
3794 2011-05-19 17:44:51 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: it gets really interesting in presence of pools.
3795 2011-05-19 17:44:52 <x5x> its just a way to driveup the min fee for legit transactions
3796 2011-05-19 17:45:01 <erbs> his absence from the forum marks a transition in his life from guy who sits on the internet all day to guy who drives around in a lamboirghininbanging bitches and doing coke in his mansion
3797 2011-05-19 17:45:08 <wumpus> Dek: only buy bitcoins with 'real money' when you want to immediately spend them
3798 2011-05-19 17:45:10 <Dek> lol
3799 2011-05-19 17:45:12 <Dek> so true erbs
3800 2011-05-19 17:45:13 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: that would also mean something nefarious in case of huge pool hashing power.
3801 2011-05-19 17:45:14 <Mookman288> That's the point, if you have the power to lower purchasing power of the BTC, you can double your BTC worth easily.
3802 2011-05-19 17:45:16 <wumpus> Dek: not as investment
3803 2011-05-19 17:45:17 <Dek> good advice wumpus
3804 2011-05-19 17:45:29 <luke-jr> hmm
3805 2011-05-19 17:45:49 <Namegduf> Technically
3806 2011-05-19 17:46:12 <Namegduf> There's no difference in value between keeping BTC you have as BTC and getting more BTC.
3807 2011-05-19 17:46:33 <Namegduf> In both cases you're exchanging about the same amount of money for about the same amount of BTC by the decision.
3808 2011-05-19 17:46:47 <Namegduf> It's just easier to rationalise gambling when you're already doing it. :P
3809 2011-05-19 17:46:50 <wumpus> well the complaint is that it's very risky to hold BTC at the moment
3810 2011-05-19 17:46:53 <wumpus> which makes sense
3811 2011-05-19 17:47:03 * Namegduf is going to keep his 55
3812 2011-05-19 17:47:13 ExtraSpice has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3813 2011-05-19 17:47:17 <Namegduf> $350 isn't so awesome right now, I'd just buy, I unno, a new camera
3814 2011-05-19 17:47:19 <wumpus> gambling is the word :)
3815 2011-05-19 17:47:40 <Namegduf> I'm not normally a gambler, so I'm enjoying the fairly high stakes game.
3816 2011-05-19 17:47:57 <Namegduf> Gamble a digital camera for, I unno, depends how high the price can go.
3817 2011-05-19 17:47:59 <wumpus> then again, there's nothing that -dev can do about it, the market needs to sort it out
3818 2011-05-19 17:48:05 HaltingState has joined
3819 2011-05-19 17:48:34 sethsethseth__ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3820 2011-05-19 17:48:37 <Namegduf> I think betting the interest in BTC will continue to rise above supply for now is fair. If it does collapse it'll collapse with an earth-shattering caboom when the major holders sell, though.
3821 2011-05-19 17:48:38 <HaltingState> Is anyone interested in doing a structured ASIC bitcoin miner?
3822 2011-05-19 17:48:49 Stellar has joined
3823 2011-05-19 17:49:05 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, at best you would be able to add about 0.01BTC to the block mined
3824 2011-05-19 17:49:14 sethsethseth has joined
3825 2011-05-19 17:49:15 <wumpus> I'm not really afraid that it will collapse, but it might go back to, let's say, $2-$3
3826 2011-05-19 17:49:19 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, so you're talking about a very small increase in the value of the block
3827 2011-05-19 17:49:24 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: what about pools?
3828 2011-05-19 17:49:34 <Namegduf> wumpus: I think it'll collapse to the point where people selling wouldn't get much out of it anyway
3829 2011-05-19 17:49:37 manly has joined
3830 2011-05-19 17:49:40 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, what about them?
3831 2011-05-19 17:49:40 <Namegduf> At which point they'll just keep it for the hell of it
3832 2011-05-19 17:49:59 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: lets say such a scheme would be perpetuated by a pool operator with huge hashing power
3833 2011-05-19 17:50:11 <Namegduf> It's only caused by a few people with huge holdings, though.
3834 2011-05-19 17:50:27 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, they'd be getting 50.01 BTC/block instead of 50 BTC, bfd
3835 2011-05-19 17:50:33 <Namegduf> therap1st: 2% of each block gives 1 BTC in fees
3836 2011-05-19 17:50:39 sethsethseth___ has joined
3837 2011-05-19 17:50:48 <therap1st> Namegduf: so far...
3838 2011-05-19 17:50:50 <Namegduf> An additional 1% profit from 1.01 isn't so much
3839 2011-05-19 17:50:55 <therap1st> nobody tried to drive up the price :)
3840 2011-05-19 17:51:12 <manly> hello #bitcoin-dev. id like to know where theres some good information about how bitcoin pools work internally.  note: i am a coder so i mean the technical details
3841 2011-05-19 17:51:13 <therap1st> what if slush and tycho forced txes to be 0.1 in fees
3842 2011-05-19 17:51:27 <therap1st> gradually of course
3843 2011-05-19 17:51:31 <Namegduf> Then I guess people would wait on the other pool.
3844 2011-05-19 17:51:32 <wumpus> Namegduf:  people selling it isn't really a problem as long as there are people buying
3845 2011-05-19 17:51:34 <Dek> manly: look on forum for pushpoold
3846 2011-05-19 17:51:38 <Dek> its all your going to get
3847 2011-05-19 17:51:56 <Namegduf> wumpus: Yeah, the collapse stuff would happen from a major owner selling faster than buying
3848 2011-05-19 17:52:04 <manly> ah ok so theres no real technical overview available ?
3849 2011-05-19 17:52:07 <Namegduf> And then that price drop triggering others to do so.
3850 2011-05-19 17:52:16 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, you dont get it, you could only increase the fees in the block by ~0.01 BTC/block by spamming
3851 2011-05-19 17:52:24 <wumpus> Namegduf: could also be a flash crash, a price drop will also trigger a lot of people buying which are now waiting
3852 2011-05-19 17:52:33 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, that might be worth it for someone at somepoint, but currently i dont think anybody cares
3853 2011-05-19 17:52:35 <Namegduf> wumpus: Hmm, maybe.
3854 2011-05-19 17:52:47 <Namegduf> wumpus: I'd totally buy a bunch to spend on things sold in BTCs to get them before the prices readjusted
3855 2011-05-19 17:53:13 <Namegduf> Because I have little moral issues with behaving in a self-centred way in something whose point is to be a Randian free market.
3856 2011-05-19 17:53:23 <Namegduf> And that could even fix it, heh.
3857 2011-05-19 17:53:41 <Namegduf> I guess you could also buy it to gamble that they'd go back up.
3858 2011-05-19 17:53:49 <Namegduf> As with stocks.
3859 2011-05-19 17:53:52 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: i'm talking about pool conspiracy :) if two huge pools drive tx fee up in a cartel, everyone else is left to wait for luck in honest pools or pay up
3860 2011-05-19 17:53:58 fluffluff has joined
3861 2011-05-19 17:54:00 pyros1 has joined
3862 2011-05-19 17:54:00 <Namegduf> Maybe the stock analogy is closest.
3863 2011-05-19 17:54:05 sethsethseth has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3864 2011-05-19 17:54:23 <Namegduf> They don't have an awful lot of inherent value and someone with 30% can sell and crash the price briefly, but they generaly work.
3865 2011-05-19 17:54:31 <Mookman288> manly: I have found no techical overview. I code, but I haven't coded non-web/gui stuff in a while.
3866 2011-05-19 17:54:51 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, i hear what you're saying, but you'd have to control > 50% of the mining power for that to be worth it, and if you have > 50% of the mining power you control the network anyways, so who cares?
3867 2011-05-19 17:54:55 <wumpus> Namegduf: anyway, currencies generally have no inherent value
3868 2011-05-19 17:54:58 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: but you're probably right, better wait for that to happen. i'm only worried about useability implications for regular folk
3869 2011-05-19 17:55:05 <Namegduf> wumpus: Agree
3870 2011-05-19 17:55:26 <Namegduf> wumpus: I just don't have any other small currencies to look at, so stocks are the closest similar thing in that regard.
3871 2011-05-19 17:55:34 <wumpus> Namegduf: true
3872 2011-05-19 17:55:48 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: this idea started by people worrying with pools having huge power. this could be ideal covert exploit...
3873 2011-05-19 17:56:20 <HaltingState> I think we have to worry about pools running ASICs.  The ASICs need to be open source and available to the community.  If only private pools control structured ASICs and they are 5x cheaper than graphics cards, that is an issue.
3874 2011-05-19 17:56:32 <x5x> therap1st, yea if no pool had that big a % of the pie, it probly wouldnt be an issue right ?
3875 2011-05-19 17:56:46 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, that would be FAR from covert, nobody but the miners would benefit from spam with transaction fees
3876 2011-05-19 17:57:03 ArtForz is now known as afk!foobar@p5DC77EF9.dip.t-dialin.net|ArtForz
3877 2011-05-19 17:57:05 <wumpus> HaltingState: yeah, an open source asic would be nice
3878 2011-05-19 17:57:07 <erbs> knightmb made around 550 times his investment
3879 2011-05-19 17:57:12 legion050 has joined
3880 2011-05-19 17:57:18 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: is it possible to gauge tx fee threshold processed by a pool?
3881 2011-05-19 17:57:18 <erbs> the greatest return in a year of all time?
3882 2011-05-19 17:57:33 <Namegduf> erbs: Percentage-wise maybe.
3883 2011-05-19 17:57:34 <wumpus> HaltingState: then again, GPUs are good enough for now, and pretty cost effective... building asics is expensive
3884 2011-05-19 17:57:48 <HaltingState> If the network hashing is dominant by private pools running ASICs, and the ASICs are not community controlled.  The cartels will be in a better position to charge large transaction frees.  In competition, large transaction processing fees encourage others to invest to create new pools to compete
3885 2011-05-19 17:57:49 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, what?
3886 2011-05-19 17:57:51 <erbs> of course he scammed his investors into believing the btc they acquired had become worthless
3887 2011-05-19 17:58:10 <erbs> they can easily reclaim the assets in court
3888 2011-05-19 17:58:23 <phantomcircuit> erbs, what?
3889 2011-05-19 17:58:23 <HaltingState> wumpus, building ASICs is not that expensive.  100 to 250k for a run of a few hundred "Structured ASICs" which are between FGPAs and ASICs
3890 2011-05-19 17:58:44 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: tx fee threshold for a tx to be accepted into block, its not public. or is it?
3891 2011-05-19 17:59:01 <HaltingState> wumpus, ArtForz has personally build his own structured ASIC miners as an individual, as a group the cost is not that much
3892 2011-05-19 17:59:11 <ArtForz> yep
3893 2011-05-19 17:59:23 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, that's entirely dependent on the miner, there are standard rules in the mainline, but anything included in a block is valid so long as it's well formed
3894 2011-05-19 17:59:30 eoss has joined
3895 2011-05-19 17:59:34 <wumpus> HaltingState: yeah it would be less, I can see bitcoin asics becoming a mass production product one of these days :P
3896 2011-05-19 17:59:58 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: the block is generated by a pool operator...
3897 2011-05-19 18:00:04 <ArtForz> just a question if its profitable in the long run, GPUs being resellable for quite a large % of MSRP really lowers $/Mhps
3898 2011-05-19 18:00:07 rtulio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3899 2011-05-19 18:00:15 <HaltingState> ArtForz, did you do xilinx?  What options for structured ASIC fabs did you look at?
3900 2011-05-19 18:00:17 <wumpus> HaltingState: especially if mining itself starts to earn less, it starts to be better to sell pickaxes than mine
3901 2011-05-19 18:00:32 <ArtForz> first checked the usual suspects, xilinx, altera, easic
3902 2011-05-19 18:00:41 <ArtForz> xilinx = cost per unit beyond crazy
3903 2011-05-19 18:00:44 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, that's entirely dependent on the pool, there are standard rules in the mainline, but anything included in a block is valid so long as it's well formed
3904 2011-05-19 18:00:58 <ArtForz> altera = $400k+ NRE = LOLWUT?
3905 2011-05-19 18:01:13 rtulio has joined
3906 2011-05-19 18:01:21 <ArtForz> easic = decent low nre and cost/unit, but performance is abysimal
3907 2011-05-19 18:02:22 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 2600000
3908 2011-05-19 18:02:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 4 days, 16 hours, 1 minute, and 36 seconds
3909 2011-05-19 18:02:38 <erbs> hmm.. i dont know much about chip design.. why do a structured asic when you could just fab a dedicated chip prety cheaply
3910 2011-05-19 18:02:47 <ArtForz> erbs: NRE
3911 2011-05-19 18:02:50 <erbs> write the functions in SystemC or even verilog...
3912 2011-05-19 18:02:54 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: so youre saying its ok to submit arbitrary block to the pool, only 50BTC must be sent to pools address. then yeah, pool oper has lesser chance at manipulation...
3913 2011-05-19 18:02:56 <pyros1> Hey, just a quick question I tried changing my comp settings but I'm running an i5. w/ 2X 5770 in crossfire. I don't notice temp changes in the GPU's but my CPU temp is pushing 71celsius now. I'm running bitcoin 0.3.21-beta
3914 2011-05-19 18:02:58 <Dek> erbs: lol ya that was the best part of that post
3915 2011-05-19 18:03:02 <ArtForz> have a mask set done for a few $M
3916 2011-05-19 18:03:07 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: arbitrary block as in arbitrary txes
3917 2011-05-19 18:03:10 <erbs> interesting ArtForz
3918 2011-05-19 18:03:28 <ArtForz> thoguh std cell ASIC on a old process could be interesting
3919 2011-05-19 18:03:44 vragnaroda has joined
3920 2011-05-19 18:03:48 <Namegduf> pyros1: You're probably not generating on the GPU
3921 2011-05-19 18:03:48 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, miners ( and pools ) simply accept whatever transactions they want, they could accept as many free transactions as would fit into a block if they want to
3922 2011-05-19 18:04:01 <pyros1> ahh Namegduf how would I go about changing that?
3923 2011-05-19 18:04:08 <Namegduf> You would install a GPU miner
3924 2011-05-19 18:04:09 <ArtForz> even at >1u feature size std cell ASIC should beat FPGAs at 45nm and structtured ASIC at 65-90nm or so
3925 2011-05-19 18:04:14 <Namegduf> The main client can't generate on the GPU
3926 2011-05-19 18:04:19 <erbs> id bet theres some fabricators in china/taiwain/south korea  on alibaba.com with excess capacity who would fabricate you a few hundred chip for $10K
3927 2011-05-19 18:04:42 <pyros1> is there one you would recommend Namegduf?
3928 2011-05-19 18:04:42 <ArtForz> erbs: or just get a few spots on a mosis wafer for your ptototypes ;)
3929 2011-05-19 18:04:50 <erbs> interesting ArtForz..
3930 2011-05-19 18:04:58 <ArtForz> no warranties, no testing, but decently cheap
3931 2011-05-19 18:05:05 <erbs> i c
3932 2011-05-19 18:05:08 <Namegduf> pyros1: I wouldn't know which is best. I use Diablo's because he helped me get it working
3933 2011-05-19 18:05:15 <pyros1> okay thank you
3934 2011-05-19 18:05:15 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: This is a patch against SVN 159 that allows external RPC clients to ask for unsolved block data and eventually submit back a solution. is current getwork. so its a pool operator who selects the txes.
3935 2011-05-19 18:05:17 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, the only limitation is that the transactions have to be valid
3936 2011-05-19 18:05:32 <erbs> well i dont know jack about chips..
3937 2011-05-19 18:05:40 <diki> something isn't happening..the shares table isn't being populated..
3938 2011-05-19 18:06:02 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
3939 2011-05-19 18:06:06 <diki> i sent about 20 shares....nothing was added
3940 2011-05-19 18:06:22 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: but if pool operator accepts any block, not just the one getworked then i guess some miners can opt-out of operators evil scheming with blocks :)
3941 2011-05-19 18:06:38 <erbs> fuckmylife
3942 2011-05-19 18:06:47 <erbs> ArtForz is the master
3943 2011-05-19 18:07:00 <diki> any ideas?
3944 2011-05-19 18:07:01 <erbs> i cant wait to mine on my dedicated chip
3945 2011-05-19 18:07:20 <erbs> you know, you could probably get some investors to pay for building a chip
3946 2011-05-19 18:07:25 <therap1st> 1) find out the chinese FAB manufacturing artforz silicon 2) pay em to steal the design 3) maybe? PROFIT!
3947 2011-05-19 18:07:28 <Namegduf> I wouldn't invest in that.
3948 2011-05-19 18:07:48 <Namegduf> Due to the constant rate as soon as competition happens the money out will just match what everyone was doing before.
3949 2011-05-19 18:07:54 <HaltingState> ArtForz, did you end up using easic?
3950 2011-05-19 18:07:59 <ArtForz> HaltingState: nope
3951 2011-05-19 18:08:04 <Namegduf> You can't make the pie bigger, just try to get a bigger slice
3952 2011-05-19 18:08:08 <ArtForz> their stuff is rather not well suited for sha256
3953 2011-05-19 18:08:17 <ArtForz> = not enough fast adders
3954 2011-05-19 18:08:24 <Namegduf> Once you've proof-of-concept'd something as profitable others will do it and bang, there goes the profit.
3955 2011-05-19 18:08:27 <erbs> well.. to match your cost per hash they would have to build their own chips! and that would take them time and money.. so you win if you're on the cutting edge
3956 2011-05-19 18:08:45 <erbs> they wouldn't know what hw you use
3957 2011-05-19 18:08:45 <Namegduf> For as long as you're on the cutting edge, yes, but I'm dubious about making 10k that way.
3958 2011-05-19 18:08:52 <therap1st> Namegduf: pretty much. expect ebay flooded with old half-burned 5970 in a year
3959 2011-05-19 18:08:57 <therap1st> and xilinx's sold out
3960 2011-05-19 18:09:01 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: not a whole lot of time. main factor is money
3961 2011-05-19 18:09:08 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: asic startup costs are prohibitive
3962 2011-05-19 18:09:18 <phantomcircuit> therap1st, they dont accept blocks they accept transactions
3963 2011-05-19 18:09:19 <erbs> yeah get the investors to pay
3964 2011-05-19 18:09:21 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: assuming talent, of course
3965 2011-05-19 18:09:27 <erbs> all you have to do is show them a graph of btc
3966 2011-05-19 18:09:31 <Namegduf> You'd have a lot of startup cost gambled on getting the increased share of the generation pie
3967 2011-05-19 18:09:44 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: not really
3968 2011-05-19 18:09:45 <Namegduf> Generation price is only interesting at the current rate
3969 2011-05-19 18:09:48 vragnaroda has left ()
3970 2011-05-19 18:09:51 <ArtForz> well, as with any gold rush... sell shovels!
3971 2011-05-19 18:09:55 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: way too volatile still to be convincing to investors
3972 2011-05-19 18:09:56 <erbs> haha ArtForz!
3973 2011-05-19 18:10:00 <erbs> true true
3974 2011-05-19 18:10:06 <Namegduf> As increasing price means you can just buy in to take advantage of that part.
3975 2011-05-19 18:10:08 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: shhhhhh
3976 2011-05-19 18:10:22 <erbs> jrmithdobbs: cmon man.. startup investors are precisely the people who are looking for high risk / high reward investments
3977 2011-05-19 18:10:29 <therap1st> phantomcircuit: understood. however getwork gives you list of txes (making up a block) you're trying to solve so its essentialy how pools work now
3978 2011-05-19 18:10:36 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: it's not as easy a sell as you're saying
3979 2011-05-19 18:10:38 <erbs> they are not pensioners investing in S&p500
3980 2011-05-19 18:10:47 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: at least, not if you want to keep decision making power
3981 2011-05-19 18:10:55 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3982 2011-05-19 18:10:55 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.34,"low":6.6,"vol":24459,"buy":6.88,"sell":6.9499,"last":6.88}}
3983 2011-05-19 18:11:01 <erbs> strike while the iron is hot!
3984 2011-05-19 18:11:03 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: if you're willing to sell your soul to vcs, sure it'd be a pretty easy sell
3985 2011-05-19 18:11:20 <jrmithdobbs> but i think the last 15 years of tech startups have shown why this usually backfires
3986 2011-05-19 18:11:26 <flok> anyone on deepbit.net? my miner does 42M hashes but the counters on deepbit stay 0
3987 2011-05-19 18:11:40 <Namegduf> flok: Does it say it connected okay?
3988 2011-05-19 18:11:42 <ersi> flok: then you havn't submitted any successful results
3989 2011-05-19 18:11:43 <therap1st> ArtForz: why dont you start selling your manufactured asic silicon at some mad profit anyway?
3990 2011-05-19 18:11:44 <Namegduf> Do you have any shares?
3991 2011-05-19 18:11:50 <Namegduf> And yeah, it takes time to find shares
3992 2011-05-19 18:11:50 <therap1st> ArtForz: afraid of copycats?
3993 2011-05-19 18:11:51 <erbs> if bitcoin is attractive to currency speculators, it is attractive to mining speculators for the same reasons
3994 2011-05-19 18:12:03 <Namegduf> Nah
3995 2011-05-19 18:12:05 <jrmithdobbs> therap1st: because there's more profit in keeping it a trade secret atm
3996 2011-05-19 18:12:07 <jrmithdobbs> therap1st: duh
3997 2011-05-19 18:12:20 <ArtForz> therap1st: that and lawsuits, I have some reliability issues
3998 2011-05-19 18:12:21 <jrmithdobbs> therap1st: don't you doubt he has a point at which that becomes part of the business plan
3999 2011-05-19 18:12:27 <therap1st> i think people would buy it even severly overpriced
4000 2011-05-19 18:12:31 <Namegduf> How good is it, ArtForz?
4001 2011-05-19 18:12:33 <therap1st> ArtForz: i see
4002 2011-05-19 18:12:35 Schematografter has joined
4003 2011-05-19 18:12:41 <Namegduf> What kinda MH/s for what price?
4004 2011-05-19 18:12:42 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: have any more burn up on you? :(
4005 2011-05-19 18:12:43 Moonies has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4006 2011-05-19 18:12:45 <Namegduf> (Ballpark, out of interest)
4007 2011-05-19 18:12:48 <ArtForz> one more
4008 2011-05-19 18:12:48 <flok> Namegduf: well it is working on something it seems
4009 2011-05-19 18:12:56 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: 4 in 2 days? sucks man
4010 2011-05-19 18:13:00 <Namegduf> flok: It will do that even if it can't connect
4011 2011-05-19 18:13:14 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: good luck getting that sorted out.
4012 2011-05-19 18:13:19 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
4013 2011-05-19 18:13:20 <Namegduf> flok: And it will be doing that if it can't succeed.
4014 2011-05-19 18:13:21 <HaltingState> ArtForz, you have chip yield problems?
4015 2011-05-19 18:13:22 <diki> anyone have an idea why the shares table in pushpool is not populated ?
4016 2011-05-19 18:13:31 <Namegduf> The nice thing is that if my GPUs explode I just get new ones
4017 2011-05-19 18:13:35 <Namegduf> Three year warranty whoo
4018 2011-05-19 18:13:42 <jrmithdobbs> diki: schema is bad or you have no shares
4019 2011-05-19 18:13:48 <flok> Namegduf any way I can verify the connection?
4020 2011-05-19 18:13:49 <diki> i sent 36 shares
4021 2011-05-19 18:13:53 <Namegduf> flok: It'll tell you.
4022 2011-05-19 18:13:59 <Namegduf> flok: Also, is the name in blue or red?
4023 2011-05-19 18:14:01 ArtForzZz has joined
4024 2011-05-19 18:14:04 <Namegduf> Of the worker.
4025 2011-05-19 18:14:28 <diki> i will post the schema right now
4026 2011-05-19 18:14:51 phantomcircuit has quit (Quit: Clever quit message!)
4027 2011-05-19 18:14:59 <erbs> ArtForz, what did you design the chip with? verilog or something?
4028 2011-05-19 18:15:08 legion050 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
4029 2011-05-19 18:15:13 <flok> Namegduf: no it is red. Namegduf: do you mean the miner will tell you or deepbit.net website?
4030 2011-05-19 18:15:22 <Namegduf> You.
4031 2011-05-19 18:15:23 <diki> http://pastebin.com/s92MfUry
4032 2011-05-19 18:15:25 <Namegduf> If it's red it is not connected
4033 2011-05-19 18:15:27 <HaltingState> erbs, are you interested in working on a FPGA implementation with me?
4034 2011-05-19 18:15:30 <Namegduf> Check your details and restart
4035 2011-05-19 18:15:41 <erbs> HaltingState: sure.. except im clueless about chips :)
4036 2011-05-19 18:15:54 <HaltingState> erbs, can you do C/C++? verilog is almost same
4037 2011-05-19 18:16:03 <erbs> interesting
4038 2011-05-19 18:16:09 phantomcircuit has joined
4039 2011-05-19 18:16:15 <erbs> ill have to read up on some stroussroup! hehe
4040 2011-05-19 18:16:19 <iera> HaltingState: nobody did one already? did you look in the forums?
4041 2011-05-19 18:16:38 <therap1st> erbs: someone will do the fpga->asic design once xilinx is out. they can fab it to the asic for you, too.
4042 2011-05-19 18:16:39 dux0r has quit (Quit: dux0r)
4043 2011-05-19 18:16:47 <ArtForzZz> fpgaminer did a verilog impl I think
4044 2011-05-19 18:16:50 <diki> and that's the schema
4045 2011-05-19 18:16:51 larsivi has joined
4046 2011-05-19 18:16:54 <erbs> cool stuff
4047 2011-05-19 18:16:55 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4048 2011-05-19 18:17:03 <HaltingState> therap1st, the cost is ridiculous
4049 2011-05-19 18:17:06 <diki> it actually had a primary key, but still no shares so i removed it
4050 2011-05-19 18:17:12 <iera> who would give his fpga implementation away? :p
4051 2011-05-19 18:17:17 <therap1st> HaltingState: it is. thats why it will be public, to pay upfront for the costs
4052 2011-05-19 18:17:33 <ArtForzZz> good luck
4053 2011-05-19 18:17:44 <ArtForzZz> hint: xilinx' ASIC offerings have about 30% better price/perf than virtexes... yeah.
4054 2011-05-19 18:17:56 <HaltingState> I have a verilog SHA256 implementation, its as ArtForzZz mentioned however.  You have to optimize the adders
4055 2011-05-19 18:18:00 <therap1st> also are cheaper to mass produce
4056 2011-05-19 18:18:07 <therap1st> but initial investment is huge
4057 2011-05-19 18:18:57 kreal- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4058 2011-05-19 18:18:59 <erbs> ill buy a share in ArtForz co :)
4059 2011-05-19 18:19:03 <erbs> now i just need some $
4060 2011-05-19 18:19:59 <therap1st> universal sha256 cracking asic chip will be fun in much more ways, not just BTC
4061 2011-05-19 18:20:00 <ArtForzZz> HaltingState: the best I got so far was by using 2-input adders for t2 = s0+maj and t1a = s1+ch, a 3-input adder for t1b = h + k + w, 3-input for a = t1a + t1b + t2 and for e = t1a + t1b + d
4062 2011-05-19 18:20:08 <ArtForzZz> and using a register stage in the middle
4063 2011-05-19 18:20:13 <therap1st> salted passwords and wpa2 cracking made real.
4064 2011-05-19 18:20:21 C4colo has joined
4065 2011-05-19 18:20:22 <ArtForzZz> so my t1a/tib/t2 arr regs
4066 2011-05-19 18:20:26 <ArtForzZz> *are
4067 2011-05-19 18:20:42 <ArtForzZz> that seems to give the most balanced critical path
4068 2011-05-19 18:20:50 <erbs> therap1st: very true
4069 2011-05-19 18:20:52 <jrmithdobbs> therap1st: salted is already possible so long as you have a single target
4070 2011-05-19 18:20:56 <ArtForzZz> for 3-input adders I used CSA+CRA
4071 2011-05-19 18:21:04 <flok> Namegduf ah yes i see. do you know if you need a sepearate worker-login for each worker? or can i share one login by multiple pc's?
4072 2011-05-19 18:21:13 <ArtForzZz> well, actually CSA+CLA
4073 2011-05-19 18:21:37 ForwardTwo has joined
4074 2011-05-19 18:21:49 <sethsethseth___> what is the command to log into nickserv?
4075 2011-05-19 18:22:55 <erbs> /vaginacorn
4076 2011-05-19 18:23:18 <C4colo> /ns identify PASSWORD
4077 2011-05-19 18:23:32 <C4colo> or /msg nickserv identify PASSWORD
4078 2011-05-19 18:23:36 <ForwardTwo> Hey, is there a way to stop mining? I haven't downloaded it yet because I'm not home, but I game a lot, and using my GPU for mining constantly isn't a very good idea on my part.
4079 2011-05-19 18:23:50 <erbs> once you mine you can never stop until you iht gold!
4080 2011-05-19 18:23:52 <C4colo> yes, when you are not mining you are not mining
4081 2011-05-19 18:23:55 <sethsethseth___> k, now how do i get teh ___ off the end of my name so i can log in?
4082 2011-05-19 18:24:03 <erbs> j/k.. theres an option somewhere to always mine
4083 2011-05-19 18:24:05 <C4colo> /nick BLAH
4084 2011-05-19 18:24:17 <ForwardTwo> HAHA erbs ;) Okay! Thanks everyone! :)
4085 2011-05-19 18:24:29 ForwardTwo has left ()
4086 2011-05-19 18:26:21 <HaltingState> ArtForzZz, did you split ASIC cost with anyone?
4087 2011-05-19 18:26:27 <ArtForzZz> yeah
4088 2011-05-19 18:26:52 <ArtForzZz> found 2 local investors with more money than sense
4089 2011-05-19 18:27:00 <HaltingState> ArtForzZz, is anyone planning on doing a commercial ASIC device?
4090 2011-05-19 18:27:01 kwoodie has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4091 2011-05-19 18:27:11 underscor has joined
4092 2011-05-19 18:27:18 <diki> still not sending shares to the table :(
4093 2011-05-19 18:27:20 <ArtForzZz> HaltingState: yes, several people afaict
4094 2011-05-19 18:27:38 <HaltingState> ArtForzZz, your not in SF are you?
4095 2011-05-19 18:28:01 <therap1st> ArtForzZz is apparently making the chip reliable for mass production
4096 2011-05-19 18:28:06 <therap1st> before xilinx will do :)
4097 2011-05-19 18:28:14 <ArtForzZz> SF?
4098 2011-05-19 18:28:27 <HaltingState> west coast, california
4099 2011-05-19 18:28:34 <HaltingState> where the crazy investors are
4100 2011-05-19 18:28:42 <ArtForzZz> nope, .de, bavaria
4101 2011-05-19 18:28:44 Sedra has joined
4102 2011-05-19 18:28:54 <therap1st> us cant do chip design
4103 2011-05-19 18:28:57 <therap1st> only germans and japs
4104 2011-05-19 18:29:09 <ArtForzZz> at $0.3/kWh, you start looking for more power efficient ways early ;)
4105 2011-05-19 18:29:11 <iera> ArtForzZz: oh really? i always thought you were from the us
4106 2011-05-19 18:29:21 <iera> i have to visit you lol
4107 2011-05-19 18:29:38 <gjs278> my electric is .1/kwh
4108 2011-05-19 18:30:11 fimp has joined
4109 2011-05-19 18:30:17 <C4colo> When will utilities start taking btc?
4110 2011-05-19 18:30:22 <Namegduf> I'm surprised by the number of Europeans here. Most of the forums seem to be US libertarians.
4111 2011-05-19 18:30:22 <gjs278> never
4112 2011-05-19 18:30:24 <diki> I see that the shares.log file is being populated, however the table isn't
4113 2011-05-19 18:30:38 <diki> or is the table going to be populated when a block is found?
4114 2011-05-19 18:30:54 <ArtForzZz> well, I pay $50/mo for colo of each of my 6.4Ghps asic boxes, now I *only* have to stop the damn things from dieing FNAR
4115 2011-05-19 18:31:35 <iera> ArtForzZz: do you have pictures and/or information about them?
4116 2011-05-19 18:31:36 <C4colo> I'm tempted to colocate a few servers
4117 2011-05-19 18:31:41 altamic has joined
4118 2011-05-19 18:31:41 altamic has quit (Changing host)
4119 2011-05-19 18:31:41 altamic has joined
4120 2011-05-19 18:31:42 <ArtForzZz> iera: nope
4121 2011-05-19 18:31:44 <therap1st> ArtForzZz: do it like cisco, watchdogs everywhere.
4122 2011-05-19 18:31:48 <ArtForzZz> but I'm pushing power/thermal envelope *way* beyond reasonable
4123 2011-05-19 18:31:48 <C4colo> I have 19U free I think
4124 2011-05-19 18:32:07 <ArtForzZz> >7W with chips/packages designed for maybe 4W max
4125 2011-05-19 18:32:25 <iera> ArtForzZz: and why do you colo them? they dont need a 100mbit connection?
4126 2011-05-19 18:32:40 <gjs278> lol
4127 2011-05-19 18:32:43 <ArtForzZz> iera: cheaper than what I'd pay for power here ...
4128 2011-05-19 18:32:44 <gjs278> that much electricty used at a house
4129 2011-05-19 18:32:48 <C4colo> heat, power, etc
4130 2011-05-19 18:32:51 <iera> ArtForzZz: hm ok
4131 2011-05-19 18:32:52 <ArtForzZz> and thats including AC and 100M ...
4132 2011-05-19 18:32:56 <JFK911> BKA would be looking for a marijuana grow
4133 2011-05-19 18:33:03 <C4colo> well, just put aluminum foil on the windows and wait for the DEA to stop by
4134 2011-05-19 18:33:08 <C4colo> violently
4135 2011-05-19 18:33:31 <ArtForzZz> JFK911: neh, da kommen nur 2 typen in zivil und fragen freundlich was zur hölle du machst ;)
4136 2011-05-19 18:33:34 <C4colo> "don't worry, I'm just generating an alternative currency"
4137 2011-05-19 18:33:39 <iera> haha
4138 2011-05-19 18:33:52 <iera> "geld verdienen, grüss gott, tür zu"
4139 2011-05-19 18:34:02 <C4colo> ... then the US Secret Service shows up to ask you questions
4140 2011-05-19 18:34:04 <Namegduf> Reminds me of that hilarious story about the time the DEA busted a datacentre
4141 2011-05-19 18:34:06 <ArtForzZz> "dassn linux cluster"
4142 2011-05-19 18:34:11 <C4colo> haha
4143 2011-05-19 18:34:11 <JFK911> ArtForzZz: lucky then
4144 2011-05-19 18:34:12 <Namegduf> Taking lots of electricity, generating lots of heat
4145 2011-05-19 18:34:22 <C4colo> I don't doubt it at all
4146 2011-05-19 18:34:30 <C4colo> they are clueless and they can get a warrant for NOTHING
4147 2011-05-19 18:34:33 <iera> ArtForzZz: is your custom design on a pci card or a seperate board?
4148 2011-05-19 18:34:38 <C4colo> and I don't mean "not very much" but just by asking
4149 2011-05-19 18:34:39 <ArtForzZz> iera: seperate board
4150 2011-05-19 18:34:45 <Namegduf> C4colo: Heat is considered justified cause in the UK
4151 2011-05-19 18:34:48 <ArtForzZz> connected via full speed USB
4152 2011-05-19 18:34:48 <Namegduf> Not so sure the US
4153 2011-05-19 18:34:55 <Namegduf> At least for a home address.
4154 2011-05-19 18:34:58 <iera> ah ok
4155 2011-05-19 18:35:10 <ArtForzZz> Namegduf: really?
4156 2011-05-19 18:35:10 <C4colo> or saying "uh, we have a confidential informant ... that ... uh, .. bought some ... weed.. there.  or something"
4157 2011-05-19 18:35:16 <Namegduf> ArtForzZz: Yes.
4158 2011-05-19 18:35:32 <C4colo> yea, which is why I'm never going to move to the UK
4159 2011-05-19 18:35:36 <ArtForzZz> did they change the law recently?
4160 2011-05-19 18:35:40 <iera> and how much watt for one board with 6.4ghps?
4161 2011-05-19 18:35:45 <C4colo> at least the USA said heat constitutes unreasonable search and seizure
4162 2011-05-19 18:35:49 <ArtForzZz> I remember they used to send a "fire inspector" that just happened to be accompanied by a few cops and a drug dog...
4163 2011-05-19 18:35:49 <gjs278> over 9000
4164 2011-05-19 18:35:49 <Namegduf> ArtForzZz: I don't think so.
4165 2011-05-19 18:36:00 <C4colo> the photography itself cannot be done without probable cause
4166 2011-05-19 18:36:02 <JFK911> C4colo: that kind of heat is very strange for a residence
4167 2011-05-19 18:36:03 <gjs278> is heat some kind of euphamism for drugs
4168 2011-05-19 18:36:06 <Namegduf> No
4169 2011-05-19 18:36:09 <Namegduf> Heat is heat
4170 2011-05-19 18:36:14 <Namegduf> Grow houses maintain a high temperature
4171 2011-05-19 18:36:15 <Mookman288> temperature
4172 2011-05-19 18:36:17 <Namegduf> They output a lot of heat
4173 2011-05-19 18:36:25 <C4colo> yea, but so does a basement full of servers
4174 2011-05-19 18:36:35 <Namegduf> C4colo: I think that's kinda silly. Does looking at a house require probable cause?
4175 2011-05-19 18:36:37 <C4colo> and maybe they are growing bananas in their basement
4176 2011-05-19 18:36:42 <JFK911> probably they cant see heat in the basement
4177 2011-05-19 18:36:43 <Namegduf> 'cause heat is just looking at it in a different frequency of light
4178 2011-05-19 18:36:48 <Namegduf> http://thelawwestofealingbroadway.blogspot.com/2009/02/turning-on-heat.html
4179 2011-05-19 18:36:49 <C4colo> without evidence of wrongdoing you can't say that heat is proof of anything
4180 2011-05-19 18:37:00 <ArtForzZz> C4colo: nah, indoor tomato farm ;)
4181 2011-05-19 18:37:01 <Namegduf> You don't need proof to get a search warrant.
4182 2011-05-19 18:37:06 <Namegduf> It kinda wouldn't work if you did.
4183 2011-05-19 18:37:08 <C4colo> no, they ruled that because the equipment is specialized that it is not available to the general public
4184 2011-05-19 18:37:10 <midnightmagic> it's possible to consume industrial amounts of electricity at a home here in Canada, but if you exceed.. I think it's 93 kWh, due to the massive fire risk that level of power consumption usually indicates, you have to get it inspected automatically every 180 days.
4185 2011-05-19 18:37:14 <C4colo> because of that cost it is rule unreasonable search
4186 2011-05-19 18:37:17 <midnightmagic> at least in BC.
4187 2011-05-19 18:37:21 <JFK911> C4colo: i can buy the equipment, so can you
4188 2011-05-19 18:37:30 <ArtForzZz> 93 kWh per what?
4189 2011-05-19 18:37:39 <midnightmagic> per day on average.
4190 2011-05-19 18:37:41 <JFK911> you arent a lawyer i think
4191 2011-05-19 18:37:42 <C4colo> I agree that the US Supreme court is a bit, what did you call it "sill" nowdays, this was made back when they still cared about individual rights
4192 2011-05-19 18:37:44 <Namegduf> C4colo: That's reasonable although increasingly incorrect logic, prices are dropping there as for any technology
4193 2011-05-19 18:37:47 <ArtForzZz> 93kWh/h is just 93kW and thats a bit... excessive
4194 2011-05-19 18:37:49 <C4colo> NOW you can buy it
4195 2011-05-19 18:37:50 <C4colo> sure
4196 2011-05-19 18:37:53 <C4colo> not when they made the ruling
4197 2011-05-19 18:38:00 sgstair has joined
4198 2011-05-19 18:38:10 <Raccoon> The US Patriot Act is set to expire in 10 days (May 29 2011). It was enacted in haste only 45 days after the Sept-11 Attacks, and has been the leading cause of government abuses against its own people. Will Obama allow it to expire?
4199 2011-05-19 18:38:12 <sacarlson> I got the FreeCoin windows client packaged and ready for testing, I put the compiled freecoin.zip and source.tar.gz on a page for anyone that would like to see it http://exchange.surething.biz/docs/  The continued supported git is at https://github.com/sacarlson/freecoin
4200 2011-05-19 18:38:19 <JFK911> you're a fool to believe the cops can't do anything
4201 2011-05-19 18:38:31 <C4colo> oh, they do it anyway
4202 2011-05-19 18:38:34 <midnightmagic> ArtForzZz: I'm close to that right now. I'm sitting around 86 kWh per day on average.
4203 2011-05-19 18:38:36 <Namegduf> I prefer to read the political discussions on the forums and laugh a lot than to get involved.
4204 2011-05-19 18:38:41 <ArtForzZz> oh, per day
4205 2011-05-19 18:38:45 <C4colo> but then start looking for other evidence to back it up before getting a warrant
4206 2011-05-19 18:38:50 <iera> ArtForzZz: how much watt per 6.4ghps (one board i guess?)
4207 2011-05-19 18:38:52 <C4colo> they don't use it alone anymore
4208 2011-05-19 18:39:01 <ArtForzZz> iera: nope, 4 boards
4209 2011-05-19 18:39:11 <iera> ah ok
4210 2011-05-19 18:39:13 <C4colo> but if you don't know they started with it you can't claim amendment 4
4211 2011-05-19 18:39:15 <ArtForzZz> one board is 1.6Ghps and ~60W
4212 2011-05-19 18:39:21 <iera> wow
4213 2011-05-19 18:39:34 <Namegduf> That is power-efficient
4214 2011-05-19 18:39:37 <ArtForzZz> well, 67 including DC-DC losses
4215 2011-05-19 18:39:39 <Namegduf> Relative to GPUs
4216 2011-05-19 18:39:47 <ArtForzZz> yep
4217 2011-05-19 18:39:59 <iera> relative to everything
4218 2011-05-19 18:40:04 <Namegduf> Ten times as powerful as my two, for, what... a fifth, quarter the power.
4219 2011-05-19 18:40:10 <ArtForzZz> compared toa  std cell asic its atrocious
4220 2011-05-19 18:40:18 <diki> Seems i posted in the wrong chann
4221 2011-05-19 18:40:19 <diki> So guys. Pushpool is the medium between the client and bitcoind. Then i guess the frontend of the pool is the website. And the website will have the formula for payment?
4222 2011-05-19 18:40:33 <ArtForzZz> wow
4223 2011-05-19 18:40:38 <iera> ArtForzZz: do you sell the boards? lol or your investors? :p
4224 2011-05-19 18:40:39 <diki> *formula for the reward
4225 2011-05-19 18:40:40 <ArtForzZz> 93kW/day is only like 3.9kW or so
4226 2011-05-19 18:40:52 <Raccoon> https://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=question&id=518150625931
4227 2011-05-19 18:40:59 <ArtForzZz> *93kWh/day
4228 2011-05-19 18:41:21 <Namegduf> Raccoon: "Should puppies be shot repeatedly? Yes or no."
4229 2011-05-19 18:41:23 <ArtForzZz> my gpus are *way* beyond that, hell, my 5970 boxes alone are ~7.5kW
4230 2011-05-19 18:41:30 <Namegduf> I mean really what answer do you expect
4231 2011-05-19 18:41:53 <ArtForzZz> waste of bullets, just strangle em
4232 2011-05-19 18:42:08 <midnightmagic> ArtForzZz: yeah. First tier of power here in BC is ~23 kWh/day and costs $0.065CAD, and then $0.0878/kWh after that. "Based on BC Hydro's Fiscal 2011 revenue requirement application, effective April 1, 2010, residential customers pay 6.27 cents per kWh for the first 1,350 kWh they use over a two-month billing period. Above that amount, customers pay 8.78 cents per kWh for the balance of the electricity used during the billing per
4233 2011-05-19 18:42:08 <midnightmagic> iod."
4234 2011-05-19 18:42:37 <ArtForzZz> wow
4235 2011-05-19 18:42:43 <gasteve> I don't understand what kWh/day means
4236 2011-05-19 18:42:53 <ArtForzZz> gasteve: its a unit for idiots
4237 2011-05-19 18:42:57 <gasteve> lol
4238 2011-05-19 18:43:04 <Namegduf> A "kWh" is a unit for power used
4239 2011-05-19 18:43:12 <intractable> energy
4240 2011-05-19 18:43:15 <Namegduf> Because for some reason joules aren't good enough
4241 2011-05-19 18:43:15 <intractable> it's a unit of energy
4242 2011-05-19 18:43:23 <Namegduf> Right, that is clearer
4243 2011-05-19 18:43:31 <Namegduf> It's 1kW * 1 hour
4244 2011-05-19 18:43:36 <davux> http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/ <- haha, they should accept BTC payments as well
4245 2011-05-19 18:43:39 <gjs278> you know what they call a kilowatt hour in france
4246 2011-05-19 18:44:01 <ArtForzZz> 1 kWh/h = 1kW, 1kWh/day = 41 2/3 W
4247 2011-05-19 18:44:37 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4248 2011-05-19 18:44:38 <mtrlt> and also 1 kWh = 3.6 MJ
4249 2011-05-19 18:44:44 <ArtForzZz> yep
4250 2011-05-19 18:45:15 <Mookman288> oh damn, I sent my big cash price (0.01btc) to some wrong address.
4251 2011-05-19 18:45:16 <ArtForzZz> but people get all glazy eyed when I state eff. in hash/J ;)
4252 2011-05-19 18:45:20 <Mookman288> Oh well, heh.
4253 2011-05-19 18:45:34 <mtrlt> which makes for interesting applications. this 1 litre carton of milk has 0.75kWh of energy
4254 2011-05-19 18:45:48 <diki> Done, i have figured out everything i need. But i'll have to move to mysql
4255 2011-05-19 18:45:59 <midnightmagic> ArtForzZz: there are cities locally here in BC where an inspector will demand entry to your house, and leave cops out at the curb. if you let them enter and they find evidence of grow-op, they call in the cops. even if they don't, they try to charge you for the visit.
4256 2011-05-19 18:46:21 <Namegduf> BC?
4257 2011-05-19 18:46:23 <Namegduf> Also, charge?
4258 2011-05-19 18:46:25 <midnightmagic> british columbia
4259 2011-05-19 18:46:26 <Namegduf> For a police visit?
4260 2011-05-19 18:46:28 <Namegduf> Ah.
4261 2011-05-19 18:46:30 <ArtForzZz> midnightmagic: they cant pull that stunt here
4262 2011-05-19 18:46:33 <midnightmagic> charge as in money
4263 2011-05-19 18:46:44 <Namegduf> Wow.
4264 2011-05-19 18:46:55 <Namegduf> You pay to be visited by the police there?
4265 2011-05-19 18:46:56 <midnightmagic> yeah we're all pretty choked up about it. I'm pretty sure it's illegal.
4266 2011-05-19 18:46:58 <ArtForzZz> well, at least thay cant bill you for it ;)
4267 2011-05-19 18:47:11 <midnightmagic> =]
4268 2011-05-19 18:47:57 <midnightmagic> also, I'm just using kWh/day as a unit because they charge in kWh. so lemme be :P
4269 2011-05-19 18:48:05 <mtrlt> :D
4270 2011-05-19 18:48:51 <ArtForzZz> why not GJ/decade ?
4271 2011-05-19 18:48:53 devrandom has joined
4272 2011-05-19 18:48:55 <midnightmagic> ArtForzZz: they use as "evidence" of a problem excessive usage, claiming the usage is a strong indicator of a short-circuit and therefore a community hazard.
4273 2011-05-19 18:49:06 <da2ce7> will bitcoind cope with 100 000 adddresses?
4274 2011-05-19 18:49:11 <midnightmagic> ArtForzZz: well that would just be silly..
4275 2011-05-19 18:49:15 <ArtForzZz> midnightmagic: yep, they can try that here, too.
4276 2011-05-19 18:49:39 <ArtForzZz> then you send them a statement from a licensed trade elec that your installation is ok.
4277 2011-05-19 18:49:44 <ArtForzZz> and they can go fuck themselves
4278 2011-05-19 18:49:56 <midnightmagic> I wish more Canadians had that attitude.
4279 2011-05-19 18:50:21 <Namegduf> I think this is all remarkably more insane than just considering infrared radiation emitted out of a house as publicly visible and something glowing like a Christmas tree as justified cause.
4280 2011-05-19 18:50:38 <Namegduf> Crazy circumventations of things...
4281 2011-05-19 18:50:41 jhulten has joined
4282 2011-05-19 18:50:47 <ArtForzZz> Namegduf: but what if I like my 1200sqft sauna?
4283 2011-05-19 18:51:11 <Namegduf> ArtForzZz: Then they might show up, look, and go away
4284 2011-05-19 18:51:17 <midnightmagic> neighbours tend to be pretty intolerant of all the grow-op shenanigans. I had someone park their bike outside my house (on the street) trying to peek in my garage windows when I was chopping ventilation holes and running my ducts.
4285 2011-05-19 18:51:17 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4286 2011-05-19 18:51:27 <Namegduf> Of course, I think drug law is silly anyway
4287 2011-05-19 18:51:40 <ArtForzZz> it is, but thats not the point
4288 2011-05-19 18:51:44 dvide_ has joined
4289 2011-05-19 18:52:06 <midnightmagic> i'm pretty sure there are at least some of them who think i'm a grower..
4290 2011-05-19 18:52:08 <Namegduf> In general almost anything you can do that gives probable cause for anything can happen as a result of legit stuff.
4291 2011-05-19 18:52:13 <ArtForzZz> being able to get a warrant based on "his house is unusually warm" is fucking bullshit
4292 2011-05-19 18:52:24 <BlueMatt> ArtForzZz: got a minute to translate?
4293 2011-05-19 18:52:31 <ArtForzZz> BlueMatt: not really
4294 2011-05-19 18:52:35 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: ?
4295 2011-05-19 18:52:42 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
4296 2011-05-19 18:52:51 <Blitzboom> shoot
4297 2011-05-19 18:52:58 <ArtForzZz> Terraria should be outlawed
4298 2011-05-19 18:53:08 <ArtForzZz> *way* too addictive
4299 2011-05-19 18:53:30 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4300 2011-05-19 18:53:31 Moonies has joined
4301 2011-05-19 18:54:01 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/blob/de/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po look for the new ones that are untranslated (msgstr "")
4302 2011-05-19 18:56:37 sytse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4303 2011-05-19 18:57:47 foxx89 has joined
4304 2011-05-19 18:57:50 traviscj has joined
4305 2011-05-19 19:01:24 <diki> ;;bc,stats
4306 2011-05-19 19:01:26 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125132 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1875 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, 36 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 276720.40627125
4307 2011-05-19 19:01:39 <diki> oh come on...it should be at least 2 weeks
4308 2011-05-19 19:01:44 <diki> why one again...
4309 2011-05-19 19:02:06 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: "Enter a new password to reencrypt all encrypted addresses"
4310 2011-05-19 19:02:10 <BlueMatt> because we are already doing more than 1/10 minutes
4311 2011-05-19 19:02:14 <Blitzboom> how can you encrypt already encrypted addresses?
4312 2011-05-19 19:02:22 <BlueMatt> sorry its change password
4313 2011-05-19 19:02:33 <BlueMatt> Enter a new password to change it
4314 2011-05-19 19:02:39 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4315 2011-05-19 19:02:39 <Blitzboom> ah, okay
4316 2011-05-19 19:03:18 <diki> yo bluematt
4317 2011-05-19 19:03:25 <BlueMatt> yo diki
4318 2011-05-19 19:03:34 <diki> finally set up the pool
4319 2011-05-19 19:03:36 foxx89 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4320 2011-05-19 19:03:43 <diki> After two reinstallations of ubuntu
4321 2011-05-19 19:03:48 <diki> i moved to VMware workstation
4322 2011-05-19 19:03:53 <diki> from virtualbox
4323 2011-05-19 19:05:26 kapsel_ has joined
4324 2011-05-19 19:06:29 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4325 2011-05-19 19:06:54 kreal- has joined
4326 2011-05-19 19:07:34 <kapsel_> hello everyone. I need help . I  just installed  my brand new, shiny hd5858 asus 765mhz, and it makes only 165-170Mh/s I have sdk 2.1
4327 2011-05-19 19:07:42 <diki> there is no 5858
4328 2011-05-19 19:07:44 <kapsel_> any ideas?
4329 2011-05-19 19:07:54 <kapsel_> 5850
4330 2011-05-19 19:07:56 <diki> try adding the arguments -v -w 128
4331 2011-05-19 19:08:00 <diki> they help a lot
4332 2011-05-19 19:08:02 <midnightmagic> and -f 1
4333 2011-05-19 19:08:15 <diki> without -f 1 or he will see a slideshow
4334 2011-05-19 19:08:25 <kapsel_> ok I tried few but it only made things worse
4335 2011-05-19 19:08:35 <diki> why not try the 2.4 sdk?
4336 2011-05-19 19:08:35 <kapsel_> but i'll try these ones
4337 2011-05-19 19:08:39 <diki> Works great imo
4338 2011-05-19 19:09:00 <midnightmagic> the difference on half of one of my 5970s is huge with/ without -f {some low single-digit number}
4339 2011-05-19 19:09:01 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
4340 2011-05-19 19:09:02  is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-240-199-6.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
4341 2011-05-19 19:09:28 <diki> Enjoy the slideshows then :)
4342 2011-05-19 19:09:37 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
4343 2011-05-19 19:09:49 [1]currentB has joined
4344 2011-05-19 19:09:54 <midnightmagic> :)
4345 2011-05-19 19:10:20 <midnightmagic> anyway, just trying to get him closer to the maximums so he can see how fast it "can" do..
4346 2011-05-19 19:10:22 FabianB has joined
4347 2011-05-19 19:10:32 <kapsel_> I added -v -w 128
4348 2011-05-19 19:10:44 <kapsel_> and now its 110 mhs
4349 2011-05-19 19:10:57 roconnor has joined
4350 2011-05-19 19:11:06 <roconnor> anyone understand the purpose of subscripts?
4351 2011-05-19 19:11:10 <Diablo-D3> kapsel_: somethings not right with your machine
4352 2011-05-19 19:11:12 Titeuf_87_ has joined
4353 2011-05-19 19:11:21 <diki> @kapsel, try the 2.4 sdk. Works great
4354 2011-05-19 19:11:24 <Diablo-D3> kapsel_: a 5850 at stock should do like 285
4355 2011-05-19 19:11:26 <diki> i get 275 at 725mhz
4356 2011-05-19 19:12:10 <kapsel_> after adding f1 its 120
4357 2011-05-19 19:12:15 currentB has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4358 2011-05-19 19:12:15 [1]currentB is now known as currentB
4359 2011-05-19 19:12:26 <diki> what miner?
4360 2011-05-19 19:12:36 <kapsel_> I'll try on the nex sdk
4361 2011-05-19 19:12:41 <Diablo-D3> kapsel_: did you forget to turn off cpu mining in bitcoin?
4362 2011-05-19 19:12:47 <diki> what is your miner?
4363 2011-05-19 19:12:50 <kapsel_> poclbm 20110428
4364 2011-05-19 19:12:52 Schematografter has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4365 2011-05-19 19:12:54 Moonies has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4366 2011-05-19 19:12:56 <Diablo-D3> kapsel_: very weird
4367 2011-05-19 19:12:58 <kapsel_> czech pool
4368 2011-05-19 19:13:10 <Diablo-D3> try mine instead
4369 2011-05-19 19:13:13 Schematografter has joined
4370 2011-05-19 19:13:18 <diki> if he doesnt have java
4371 2011-05-19 19:13:21 <diki> it could be a while
4372 2011-05-19 19:13:23 Moonies has joined
4373 2011-05-19 19:13:28 <Diablo-D3> heh, everyone should have it by now
4374 2011-05-19 19:13:36 <diki> i have it only for minecraft
4375 2011-05-19 19:13:43 <kapsel_> I'm new here :)
4376 2011-05-19 19:13:54 Titeuf_87 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4377 2011-05-19 19:14:13 traviscj has joined
4378 2011-05-19 19:14:25 TD_ has joined
4379 2011-05-19 19:14:34 <kapsel_> start /D"C:\Program Files\Bitcoin\poclbm_py2exe_20110428" poclbm.exe --host=mining.bitcoin.cz --port=8332 --user=xxxxx.xxxxx --pass=xxx --device=1 -v -w 128 -f1
4380 2011-05-19 19:14:50 <kapsel_> it looks like this in the bat file
4381 2011-05-19 19:15:01 <diki> pardon but how many gpus do you have?
4382 2011-05-19 19:15:08 <Diablo-D3> kapsel_: anyhow, 5850@765 on sdk 2.1 gets 300.
4383 2011-05-19 19:15:15 <Diablo-D3> kapsel_: also, are you sure you have the right device?
4384 2011-05-19 19:15:20 <Diablo-D3> I thought device 1 was cpu
4385 2011-05-19 19:15:27 <diki> 110 can never be cpu
4386 2011-05-19 19:15:33 <diki> unless dual gpu
4387 2011-05-19 19:15:39 <kapsel_> 0 is cpu
4388 2011-05-19 19:16:00 <diki> then 1 is Cayman? (aka caveman)
4389 2011-05-19 19:16:17 <diki> i mean Cypress
4390 2011-05-19 19:16:19 <kapsel_> Awww maybe new drivers? I installed those from a box
4391 2011-05-19 19:16:25 <diki> lol
4392 2011-05-19 19:16:27 <diki> dl the new drivers
4393 2011-05-19 19:16:32 <kapsel_> and sdk after it
4394 2011-05-19 19:16:32 Titeuf_87_ is now known as Titeuf_87
4395 2011-05-19 19:16:32 <diki> 11.4 man
4396 2011-05-19 19:16:46 <diki> the drivers in cd are very old
4397 2011-05-19 19:16:47 <kapsel_> eureka
4398 2011-05-19 19:16:48 <diki> i bet
4399 2011-05-19 19:17:09 <diki> but...
4400 2011-05-19 19:17:14 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4401 2011-05-19 19:17:18 <diki> There are a few steps
4402 2011-05-19 19:17:37 <pyros1> Diablo-D3 would you have time to help me setup your version of the GPU miner? or is there a website that has instructions?
4403 2011-05-19 19:17:38 <diki> Download driver sweeper. Reboot and go into safe mode. Use driver sweeper to clean ALL of ati/amd stuff
4404 2011-05-19 19:17:53 <diki> reboot and install drivers, reboot again
4405 2011-05-19 19:18:33 <kapsel_> ok
4406 2011-05-19 19:18:48 <kapsel_> so I never should install old drivers
4407 2011-05-19 19:18:48 <Diablo-D3> kapsel_: NEVER use drivers off the cd
4408 2011-05-19 19:18:55 <Diablo-D3> ever ever ever
4409 2011-05-19 19:19:05 <diki> (double)ever
4410 2011-05-19 19:19:08 <Diablo-D3> pyros1: btw, if you're having a problem, just ask
4411 2011-05-19 19:20:12 <kapsel_> om, I guess entering the safe mode depends on my bios or sth
4412 2011-05-19 19:20:31 <diki> no, you reboot and press f8 before the OS loads
4413 2011-05-19 19:20:37 <diki> before the loading screen ever appears
4414 2011-05-19 19:20:42 <pyros1> Diablo-D3 so from what I've done is I'm using windows 7x64 dual 5770's currently corssfired which I've learnt you need to turn off
4415 2011-05-19 19:20:49 <pyros1> I've put in bitcoin.conf
4416 2011-05-19 19:20:53 <diki> then choose safe mode(just safe mode, not the other crap
4417 2011-05-19 19:21:01 <pyros1> with rpcuser and rpcpassword, but i don't know what to do from there
4418 2011-05-19 19:21:03 <kapsel_> ok thx
4419 2011-05-19 19:21:09 <diki> pyros
4420 2011-05-19 19:21:10 <Diablo-D3> pyros1: to get optimum performance you turn it off on ANY opencl app
4421 2011-05-19 19:21:17 <diki> those stuff are for solo mining
4422 2011-05-19 19:21:34 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: ping
4423 2011-05-19 19:21:35 <Diablo-D3> pyros1: if you intend on pool mining, you dont need to set bitcoin up for solo mining
4424 2011-05-19 19:21:40 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/391977/
4425 2011-05-19 19:22:02 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: thanks
4426 2011-05-19 19:22:04 <Blitzboom> it sounds a bit funny when you have verschlüsselung, schlüssel and entschlüsseln in a sentence, but whatever
4427 2011-05-19 19:22:07 <pyros1> Diablo-D3 I've been using bitcoin but it takes up 100% CPU resources. and it keeps pushing my CPU temp up high
4428 2011-05-19 19:22:17 * diki doesn't know german
4429 2011-05-19 19:22:23 <pyros1> i think it went past 80C before i turned it off
4430 2011-05-19 19:22:29 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: well thats up to the translator ;) plus as long as its understandable it doesnt matter too much
4431 2011-05-19 19:22:41 <diki> pyros...you may have turned on coin generation
4432 2011-05-19 19:22:45 <Diablo-D3> pyros1: turn off bitcoin generation
4433 2011-05-19 19:22:46 <Namegduf> 80C is not that high
4434 2011-05-19 19:22:53 <diki> Lol, it is
4435 2011-05-19 19:22:58 <Diablo-D3> for what,  a cpu?
4436 2011-05-19 19:22:59 <diki> especially if it's an AMD CPu
4437 2011-05-19 19:23:00 <Namegduf> Not for peak when the CPU is under maximum load.
4438 2011-05-19 19:23:01 <pyros1> i5
4439 2011-05-19 19:23:05 <Diablo-D3> 85c is high for a cpu imo
4440 2011-05-19 19:23:12 <Diablo-D3> I dont like exceeding 65.
4441 2011-05-19 19:23:15 Malamute has joined
4442 2011-05-19 19:23:17 gdoteof has left ()
4443 2011-05-19 19:23:21 <pyros1> it's i6 760 2.80Ghz not even OC'd
4444 2011-05-19 19:23:24 <pyros1> i5**
4445 2011-05-19 19:23:26 <diki> I once did 92 on gpu and 110 on VRMS
4446 2011-05-19 19:23:33 <Namegduf> Diablo-D3: I assume you never put any load on your CPU? :P
4447 2011-05-19 19:23:33 <diki> My gpu got crapped...
4448 2011-05-19 19:23:35 <Diablo-D3> diki: dont.
4449 2011-05-19 19:23:49 <Diablo-D3> Namegduf: no, I have ... oh wait here, this is someone elses photo but I used to haev the same setup
4450 2011-05-19 19:23:57 <Diablo-D3> http://fusetech.co.uk/lapping/DSC_1894-out.jpg
4451 2011-05-19 19:24:10 <Namegduf> Hah
4452 2011-05-19 19:24:14 <Diablo-D3> thats a p180b case, thermalright ultra120 heatsink, and a thermalright hr03gt heatsink
4453 2011-05-19 19:24:24 <diki> is that a nh-d14?
4454 2011-05-19 19:24:28 <Diablo-D3> the top of the case is the right
4455 2011-05-19 19:24:35 <pyros1> yea I'm also using a stock CPU fan as well >.> so that's why I'm hopping to try GPU mining
4456 2011-05-19 19:24:37 <diki> looks just like a cooler master cooler tho
4457 2011-05-19 19:24:37 <Diablo-D3> and no, I dont have ram heatsinks, thats just overboard
4458 2011-05-19 19:24:48 <Diablo-D3> diki: all of these look similar
4459 2011-05-19 19:24:53 <diki> Mosfets sinks are a must
4460 2011-05-19 19:25:10 <Diablo-D3> theres only so many ways to put fins on a bunch of heatpipes
4461 2011-05-19 19:25:17 <diki> If one has a 4+1 phase mobo and wants to OC, sinks for mosfets is a must...
4462 2011-05-19 19:25:35 <diki> I have one and was warned before my mosfets blew up
4463 2011-05-19 19:25:54 <Diablo-D3> but yeah, even at full load for hours on end, my cpu stays around 45c.
4464 2011-05-19 19:26:06 <diki> what cooler?
4465 2011-05-19 19:26:08 <gjs278> I dont go past 80C on cpu
4466 2011-05-19 19:26:12 Raccoon` has joined
4467 2011-05-19 19:26:16 <Diablo-D3> diki: see photo
4468 2011-05-19 19:26:21 <Diablo-D3> [03:17:59] <Diablo-D3> thats a p180b case, thermalright ultra120 heatsink, and a thermalright hr03gt heatsink
4469 2011-05-19 19:26:22 <diki> nh-d14?
4470 2011-05-19 19:26:30 <gjs278> I have an nh-d14 and I hit about 75C with a 980x at 4ghz
4471 2011-05-19 19:26:34 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: thanks pushed to pull req https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/232/commits
4472 2011-05-19 19:26:41 <Diablo-D3> I have a c2d e8500 @ 3.16ghz
4473 2011-05-19 19:26:41 <gjs278> that in the picture is not an nh-d14
4474 2011-05-19 19:26:51 <pyros1> Diablo-D3 i tried starting DiabloMiner-Windows.exe but it just exits out right away
4475 2011-05-19 19:26:52 <diki> looks similar tho
4476 2011-05-19 19:26:57 <Diablo-D3> pyros1: you didnt add arguments to it.
4477 2011-05-19 19:26:57 <gjs278> wlel
4478 2011-05-19 19:27:00 <diki> but looks like a dual heatsink
4479 2011-05-19 19:27:02 <Blitzboom> so encryption is already done?
4480 2011-05-19 19:27:03 <gjs278> only half of it does
4481 2011-05-19 19:27:17 <Diablo-D3> I ended up taking my 4850 out though
4482 2011-05-19 19:27:25 <Diablo-D3> its got my gigabyte super massive 5850 in it
4483 2011-05-19 19:27:28 <diki> it does, what 60 mhash?
4484 2011-05-19 19:27:34 <Diablo-D3> my 4850? 76.6
4485 2011-05-19 19:27:49 <Blitzboom> i could finally feel safe with relatives using bitcoin on their own then, hehe
4486 2011-05-19 19:27:51 <diki> and i remember those GPUs when Crysis came out...
4487 2011-05-19 19:27:55 kreal- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4488 2011-05-19 19:28:01 <diki> they were very powerful, yet look at them now
4489 2011-05-19 19:28:17 <pyros1> so I go through command interface manueaver to the .exe and run it with /DiabloMiner-Windows.exe -v 2 ?
4490 2011-05-19 19:28:29 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4491 2011-05-19 19:28:29 Raccoon` is now known as Raccoon
4492 2011-05-19 19:28:31 <Diablo-D3> pyros1: -u user -p password -o host -r port
4493 2011-05-19 19:29:19 TD has quit (Disconnected by services)
4494 2011-05-19 19:29:19 TD_ is now known as TD
4495 2011-05-19 19:29:33 TDX_ has joined
4496 2011-05-19 19:30:01 <BlueMatt> TDX_: what is it with you using like 20 names?
4497 2011-05-19 19:30:14 <gjs278> I dont even have an altnerative nick set
4498 2011-05-19 19:30:20 <gjs278> if I reconnect while this one is on I just disconnect
4499 2011-05-19 19:30:25 <pyros1> ERRO: OpenCL platform AMD APP contains no devices
4500 2011-05-19 19:30:27 <BlueMatt> no he just uses TD, TDX_
4501 2011-05-19 19:30:31 <BlueMatt> I was just wondering why
4502 2011-05-19 19:30:55 <TD> desktop vs laptop clients
4503 2011-05-19 19:30:59 <TD> i should really fix that ....
4504 2011-05-19 19:31:01 sytse has joined
4505 2011-05-19 19:31:06 <Diablo-D3> pyros1: what video card?
4506 2011-05-19 19:31:12 <pyros1> HD 5770
4507 2011-05-19 19:31:15 <pyros1> ASus
4508 2011-05-19 19:31:23 <pyros1> i'm running 2 of them
4509 2011-05-19 19:31:25 <Diablo-D3> pyros1: what version of catalyst?
4510 2011-05-19 19:31:28 <pyros1> I turned off crossfire but the bridge is still on it
4511 2011-05-19 19:32:01 <pyros1> it's vesrion 2010.0930
4512 2011-05-19 19:32:05 <pyros1> .2237.38732
4513 2011-05-19 19:32:11 kreal- has joined
4514 2011-05-19 19:32:20 <pyros1> it's asus's version, I can't run AMD's
4515 2011-05-19 19:33:20 <Diablo-D3> erm, Im pretty sure you can.
4516 2011-05-19 19:33:30 <pyros1> i get BSOD
4517 2011-05-19 19:33:34 <pyros1> if i try to install the latest
4518 2011-05-19 19:33:35 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4519 2011-05-19 19:33:43 <pyros1> drivers from them
4520 2011-05-19 19:33:45 <Diablo-D3> sounds like the card is defective then
4521 2011-05-19 19:34:03 <pyros1> I think I'll try again
4522 2011-05-19 19:34:04 Nicksasa is now known as BlockAnnouncer
4523 2011-05-19 19:34:17 <pyros1> could I DL the OpenCL driver only?
4524 2011-05-19 19:34:40 <pyros1> or would that do nothing
4525 2011-05-19 19:34:45 <Diablo-D3> that would do nothing
4526 2011-05-19 19:35:12 <pyros1> i'm going to try installing the 10.11
4527 2011-05-19 19:35:16 <pyros1> catalyst
4528 2011-05-19 19:35:19 <pyros1> and see if I crash
4529 2011-05-19 19:35:45 BlockAnnouncer is now known as Nicksasa
4530 2011-05-19 19:35:58 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4531 2011-05-19 19:36:08 pyros1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4532 2011-05-19 19:36:20 <luke-jr> ;;bc,status
4533 2011-05-19 19:36:20 <gribble> Error: "bc,status" is not a valid command.
4534 2011-05-19 19:36:27 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: dustinanon master * r4a29409 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java :
4535 2011-05-19 19:36:27 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Just a few optimizations that I found..
4536 2011-05-19 19:36:27 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: I noticed that there were some unnecessary procedure calls/assignments in your
4537 2011-05-19 19:36:27 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: for loop declarations that I pulled out. I also noticed that there were times
4538 2011-05-19 19:36:28 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: when you were creating and destroying objects inside for loops that was also
4539 2011-05-19 19:36:28 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: unnecessary.
4540 2011-05-19 19:36:29 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: The changes probably won't amount to much, but since every clock cycle counts in this competition, I figured I would go ahead and give and do that anyway :) - http://bit.ly/mSrROh
4541 2011-05-19 19:36:29 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: dustinanon master * rcb8f37c / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java :
4542 2011-05-19 19:36:30 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: New changes, this time I made some loop optimizations in your kernel, giving me a .6 ~ 1MHash boost on my GeForce 250M.
4543 2011-05-19 19:36:30 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: As I said before, I'll test asap on a GeForce 5770 once I get to work. - http://bit.ly/lvKuJM
4544 2011-05-19 19:36:31 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rfcfdb20 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Merge branch 'patch-2' of https://github.com/dustinanon/DiabloMiner into dustinanon-patch-2 - http://bit.ly/mJcBT9
4545 2011-05-19 19:36:32 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * re9113ee / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Code is now a little cleaner - http://bit.ly/lXKGdw
4546 2011-05-19 19:36:53 kapsel_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4547 2011-05-19 19:38:37 kisom_dev has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4548 2011-05-19 19:39:09 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4549 2011-05-19 19:39:31 trekdanne has joined
4550 2011-05-19 19:40:15 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
4551 2011-05-19 19:40:19 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125141 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1866 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 4 hours, 29 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 284454.49562062
4552 2011-05-19 19:40:38 <C4colo> I've been reading the wiki and such but I just want to make sure I understand how block hashing works.  The client takes all unblocked transactions and forms a "block" out of them in memory and then looks for a hash that meets specific requirements (based on difficulty) right?
4553 2011-05-19 19:40:56 kisom_dev has joined
4554 2011-05-19 19:41:07 <C4colo> or only transactions that happened in that 10 minutes?
4555 2011-05-19 19:41:11 <C4colo> the problem is static or dynamic?
4556 2011-05-19 19:41:44 <C4colo> ~10~ish minutes rather
4557 2011-05-19 19:42:35 Nicksasa is now known as BlockAnnouncer
4558 2011-05-19 19:42:50 <jgarzik> C4colo: very basically that is correct
4559 2011-05-19 19:43:20 <jgarzik> C4colo: a block collects all transactions* since last block.  (* some spam transactions may be skipped, other TX prioritization may apply)
4560 2011-05-19 19:44:27 <C4colo> is there any limit to the size of a block?
4561 2011-05-19 19:44:40 <phantomcircuit> C4colo, yes
4562 2011-05-19 19:45:07 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: do you actually use any threads in pushpoold or is it just the curl stuff that's threaded?
4563 2011-05-19 19:45:17 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: doesn't look like it from what i see
4564 2011-05-19 19:45:23 <C4colo> if I were reserving a block of memory for the "problem" to sit in while I solve it could I anticipate the largest size that "problem" will take up in memory while I am working on it?
4565 2011-05-19 19:45:50 <C4colo> and will that change with time?
4566 2011-05-19 19:45:59 NOTAL has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
4567 2011-05-19 19:46:17 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: no threads
4568 2011-05-19 19:46:24 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: though underlying libs may thread
4569 2011-05-19 19:46:27 MrHako has joined
4570 2011-05-19 19:46:38 <C4colo> just found block hashing algorithm on the wiki, reading that
4571 2011-05-19 19:46:44 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: k, just making sure i can safely put this db handle into db_cxn because it is *not* thread safe ;P
4572 2011-05-19 19:47:05 <MrHako> hey guys, anyone running mining server with multiple GPUs? like 3 or more?
4573 2011-05-19 19:47:40 <XX01XX> MrHako... I'm sure someone is.
4574 2011-05-19 19:47:55 <jgarzik> MrHako: check out #bitcoin-mining
4575 2011-05-19 19:48:12 BlockAnnouncer is now known as Nicksasa
4576 2011-05-19 19:48:20 <XX01XX> MrHako... there are mining clients that allow you to specify an arbitrary number of devices to run on...
4577 2011-05-19 19:48:30 <brocktice> MrHako: yeah come talk with me in #bitcoin-mining
4578 2011-05-19 19:48:33 <C4colo> ok, so the merkle root will always be the same size?
4579 2011-05-19 19:48:39 <C4colo> and that's what we are actually hashing?
4580 2011-05-19 19:48:54 <MrHako> XX01XX yeah, i have a problem on every miner. At some point one of my 5870 cards (1 out of 3) stops mining. Phoenix shows it as still mining and diabloMiner just dont echo any action on one of the cards (random) - thought it was more developer alike thats why i joined this channel
4581 2011-05-19 19:49:06 <XX01XX> poclbm?
4582 2011-05-19 19:49:10 <MrHako> yes
4583 2011-05-19 19:49:23 <XX01XX> thermal shutdown?
4584 2011-05-19 19:49:36 <MrHako> XX01XX No, temps are no more than 80 - its very cooled
4585 2011-05-19 19:49:38 slush1 has joined
4586 2011-05-19 19:49:42 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
4587 2011-05-19 19:49:42 <brocktice> MrHako: Overclocking?
4588 2011-05-19 19:50:05 <MrHako> brocktice i overclocked via ati and made a shell for that to run each time - could that deactivate a card?
4589 2011-05-19 19:50:09 <brocktice> MrHako: that sounds like an overclocking failure to me
4590 2011-05-19 19:50:15 <MrHako> brocktice tho i underclocked the memory
4591 2011-05-19 19:50:23 <brocktice> MrHako: they tend to just hang up. Mem underclocking is only for power/heat
4592 2011-05-19 19:50:28 pyros1 has joined
4593 2011-05-19 19:50:31 <jrmithdobbs> MrHako: aye that card isn't stable at whatever settings you're putting it at
4594 2011-05-19 19:50:36 <jrmithdobbs> MrHako: simple as that
4595 2011-05-19 19:50:39 <XX01XX> MrHako... remove the overclockingand see if you still have the problem.
4596 2011-05-19 19:50:52 <MrHako> XX01XX will try that
4597 2011-05-19 19:50:53 Xunie has joined
4598 2011-05-19 19:50:54 <XX01XX> and then work your way back up
4599 2011-05-19 19:50:59 <MrHako> brocktice thank you
4600 2011-05-19 19:51:03 <brocktice> yw, gl
4601 2011-05-19 19:51:17 <MrHako> XX01XX will return with data later :) thanks
4602 2011-05-19 19:51:24 <XX01XX> good luck
4603 2011-05-19 19:52:54 ahbritto has joined
4604 2011-05-19 19:53:11 <C4colo> wiki says these two things: "The highest possible target (difficulty 1)" AND "The minimum difficulty, when the target is at the maximum allowed value, is 1."
4605 2011-05-19 19:53:12 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
4606 2011-05-19 19:53:16 <C4colo> is 1 high or low?
4607 2011-05-19 19:53:34 <C4colo> OH
4608 2011-05-19 19:53:40 <C4colo> target is not the same as difficulty
4609 2011-05-19 19:53:45 <C4colo> that could be worded more clearly
4610 2011-05-19 19:54:13 amiller has joined
4611 2011-05-19 19:54:38 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
4612 2011-05-19 19:54:40 <pyros1> okay Diablo-D3 so... i managed to get 10.11 through some weird manuevering and AMD APP. i did DiabloMiner-Windows.exe -u user -p pass -o internalip -r port# and
4613 2011-05-19 19:54:46 intractable has quit (Quit: leaving)
4614 2011-05-19 19:54:59 <pyros1> usage: DiabloMiner and a bunch of arguments pop out
4615 2011-05-19 19:55:14 TheKid has joined
4616 2011-05-19 19:55:14 TheKid has quit (Changing host)
4617 2011-05-19 19:55:14 TheKid has joined
4618 2011-05-19 19:56:43 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4619 2011-05-19 19:56:59  has joined
4620 2011-05-19 19:57:18 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4621 2011-05-19 19:57:28 <Diablo-D3> pyros1: erm, why are you doing 10.11?
4622 2011-05-19 19:57:38 <Diablo-D3> AMD APP does not work on 10.11
4623 2011-05-19 19:58:00 <Diablo-D3> AMD APP == SDK 2.4
4624 2011-05-19 19:59:22 <C4colo> ok, so I take all the transactions I have and sha256(sha256(Block_Header)) and then I see if that hash meets certain guidelines to see if it meets the difficulty level
4625 2011-05-19 19:59:33 <pyros1> ahh
4626 2011-05-19 19:59:39 <pyros1> so i uninstall AMD APP then
4627 2011-05-19 19:59:55 <C4colo> I read the difficulty page in the wiki but I don't quite understand how the difficulty applies to evaluating if my solution is valid
4628 2011-05-19 20:00:18 <Diablo-D3> C4colo: the solution is only valid if it meets the difficulty requirements
4629 2011-05-19 20:00:19 <C4colo> is it just the numeric value of the SHA hash?
4630 2011-05-19 20:00:23 <C4colo> right
4631 2011-05-19 20:00:23 <Diablo-D3> yes
4632 2011-05-19 20:00:28 Schematografter has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4633 2011-05-19 20:00:37 <Diablo-D3> it has to be smaller than a certain amount
4634 2011-05-19 20:00:40 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4635 2011-05-19 20:00:43 <C4colo> so if I output 00000000000000000000000000000 as the hash (highly unlikely) that would pass for a difficulity of 1 ?
4636 2011-05-19 20:00:44 <Diablo-D3> or, literally, it has to start with so many binary zeros
4637 2011-05-19 20:00:48 <C4colo> to oversimplify
4638 2011-05-19 20:00:59 <Diablo-D3> well, if you had 256 zeros....
4639 2011-05-19 20:01:05 <C4colo> that's what I'm indicating
4640 2011-05-19 20:01:07 <Diablo-D3> it'd pass the difficulty of everything
4641 2011-05-19 20:01:10 <C4colo> I just mashed the 0
4642 2011-05-19 20:01:21 <roconnor> C4colo: the hash when interpreted as a number be less than the "target"
4643 2011-05-19 20:01:27 <C4colo> 0x0 = 0x0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
4644 2011-05-19 20:01:36 ar4s has joined
4645 2011-05-19 20:01:39 <C4colo> ok that is very simple
4646 2011-05-19 20:01:42 <Diablo-D3> diff 1 is 8 0s, 4 FFFFs, and the rest 0s
4647 2011-05-19 20:01:48 <Diablo-D3> er
4648 2011-05-19 20:01:53 <Diablo-D3> yeah
4649 2011-05-19 20:01:57 <Diablo-D3> thats in hex
4650 2011-05-19 20:02:21  is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-252-46-82.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
4651 2011-05-19 20:03:15 <brocktice> has someone built a widget that I can embed in my site to simply give the current price in bitcoins given a specific dollar value?
4652 2011-05-19 20:03:16 <roconnor> in the protocol the target is specifed by givening a Word 0xaabbbbbb and then the target is 0xbbbbbb * 2^(8*0xaa - 3)
4653 2011-05-19 20:03:24 * roconnor hopes he got that right
4654 2011-05-19 20:03:36 kapsel_ has joined
4655 2011-05-19 20:03:43 <Diablo-D3> roconnor: most of us like that in human readable shit
4656 2011-05-19 20:04:00 <Diablo-D3> you can just send a getwork command and get the current diff in hex
4657 2011-05-19 20:04:09 <phantomcircuit> roconnor, (self.bits & 0x00ffffff)*(2**(8*((self.bits >> 24) - 3)))
4658 2011-05-19 20:04:20 <phantomcircuit> black magic
4659 2011-05-19 20:04:31 <roconnor> I think that is what I tried to write :D
4660 2011-05-19 20:05:09 <kapsel_> diki, diablo thanks for help! I got 280Mh/s after installing new driver as diki said
4661 2011-05-19 20:05:16 vorlov_ has joined
4662 2011-05-19 20:05:49 <kapsel_> even 285
4663 2011-05-19 20:06:09 skeledrew1 has joined
4664 2011-05-19 20:06:26 <Diablo-D3> kapsel_: you're still short
4665 2011-05-19 20:06:31 <Diablo-D3> you said 765 mhz right?
4666 2011-05-19 20:06:45 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4667 2011-05-19 20:06:46 <kapsel_> yep
4668 2011-05-19 20:06:49 <Diablo-D3> should be 300
4669 2011-05-19 20:06:51 C4colo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4670 2011-05-19 20:06:56 <Diablo-D3> you're using -v -w 128 right?
4671 2011-05-19 20:07:07 <kapsel_> yes
4672 2011-05-19 20:08:03 <kapsel_> is 290 with f 6
4673 2011-05-19 20:08:17 vorlov_ is now known as vorlov
4674 2011-05-19 20:08:17 <MrHako> XX01XX Alright i tested without overclocking. Card #3 went workqueue empy now and then idle :(
4675 2011-05-19 20:09:05 mc__ has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110428205629])
4676 2011-05-19 20:09:13 <Diablo-D3> kapsel_: -f should be multiples or divisors of 60
4677 2011-05-19 20:09:28 <Diablo-D3> kapsel_: also, try my miner
4678 2011-05-19 20:10:54 <kapsel_> ok, whidout f its 288, I'll try your miner, but first I have to lern how to run it
4679 2011-05-19 20:10:57 amiller has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4680 2011-05-19 20:11:09 <kapsel_> Does OC with this ASUS tool make sense?
4681 2011-05-19 20:11:11 io_error has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4682 2011-05-19 20:11:25 <kapsel_> smart doctor
4683 2011-05-19 20:12:06 <Namegduf> Don't OC stuff you're planning on leaving running at maximum for weeks
4684 2011-05-19 20:12:25 <Namegduf> Most stuff isn't really able to live up to that kinda usage reliably anyway.
4685 2011-05-19 20:12:57 amiller has joined
4686 2011-05-19 20:13:01 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
4687 2011-05-19 20:13:37 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|AFK
4688 2011-05-19 20:13:41 <kapsel_> okay, I have weac power supply anyway
4689 2011-05-19 20:13:47 <kapsel_> miracle that it works
4690 2011-05-19 20:14:57 <kapsel_> chieftec gps450aa, I hope it would handle this kind of work
4691 2011-05-19 20:17:17 <pyros1> hey do I have to turn on the bitcoin daemond for the diablominer to work?
4692 2011-05-19 20:17:30 <Namegduf> Yes, unless you're pool mining.
4693 2011-05-19 20:17:46 <gjs278> wow
4694 2011-05-19 20:17:49 <gjs278> the kernel developers
4695 2011-05-19 20:17:54 <gjs278> removed big kernel lock
4696 2011-05-19 20:17:58 <gjs278> guess what requires big kernel lock
4697 2011-05-19 20:18:00 <gjs278> ati drivers
4698 2011-05-19 20:18:16 <gjs278> this is fucking retarded
4699 2011-05-19 20:18:16 <ersi> l o l
4700 2011-05-19 20:18:27 <ersi> Wasn't BKL removed ages ago?
4701 2011-05-19 20:18:43 <gjs278> no
4702 2011-05-19 20:18:47 <gjs278> at least it was an option before
4703 2011-05-19 20:18:50 <gjs278> now it isnt
4704 2011-05-19 20:18:58 <Namegduf> gjs278: Sounds like the ATI drivers are pretty shitty then, yes
4705 2011-05-19 20:19:07 C4colo has joined
4706 2011-05-19 20:19:10 <gjs278> no it sounds like the kernel developers shouldnt remove shit people need
4707 2011-05-19 20:19:14 <gjs278> leave it as an option
4708 2011-05-19 20:19:14 <BlueMatt> using BKL for shit is just a bad idea, period
4709 2011-05-19 20:19:19 <gjs278> doesnt matter
4710 2011-05-19 20:19:27 <ersi> well, ATi's fucking driver has been a long standing joke
4711 2011-05-19 20:19:31 <gjs278> I dont care
4712 2011-05-19 20:19:34 <BlueMatt> BKL is a bug and last I checked it was their job to remove bugs
4713 2011-05-19 20:19:34 <gjs278> I need them to work
4714 2011-05-19 20:19:37 <Namegduf> I'm pretty sure ATI doesn't "need" it to implement what they do.
4715 2011-05-19 20:19:38 <JFK911> artificial turd industries
4716 2011-05-19 20:19:46 * jgarzik plays the world's smallest violin
4717 2011-05-19 20:19:48 <Namegduf> They just haven't gotten rid of it.
4718 2011-05-19 20:19:53 <ersi> jgarzik: Hah
4719 2011-05-19 20:20:06 <gjs278>  * ati-drivers-11.5 requires BKL.
4720 2011-05-19 20:20:08 <gjs278>  * Please enable the Big Kernel Lock:
4721 2011-05-19 20:20:09 <gjs278>  * Kernel hacking  --->
4722 2011-05-19 20:20:10 <gjs278>  *     [*] Big Kernel Lock
4723 2011-05-19 20:20:12 <gjs278>  * in the kernel config.
4724 2011-05-19 20:20:13 <gjs278>  * or add
4725 2011-05-19 20:20:15 <gjs278>  *     CONFIG_BKL=y
4726 2011-05-19 20:20:20 <ersi> gjs278: If you want dependable fucking drivers, go nVidia.
4727 2011-05-19 20:20:24 <gjs278> umm okay
4728 2011-05-19 20:20:26 pyros1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4729 2011-05-19 20:20:28 <jlewis> or don't upgrade your kernel
4730 2011-05-19 20:20:29 <gjs278> this is the bitcoin project
4731 2011-05-19 20:20:34 <gjs278> I want to upgrade my kernel
4732 2011-05-19 20:20:35 <ersi> Or don't upgrade the kernel.
4733 2011-05-19 20:20:44 <jlewis> whoa crazy idea i know, not upgrading to the bleeding edge
4734 2011-05-19 20:20:54 <ersi> can't do that maaan
4735 2011-05-19 20:20:56 <gjs278> hey jlewis I need a driver in here
4736 2011-05-19 20:20:56 <BlueMatt> no nvidia drivers suck too
4737 2011-05-19 20:20:58 <Namegduf> gjs278: The drivers you are using have not been updated to avoid the BKL
4738 2011-05-19 20:20:59 <gjs278> so you can go fuck yourself
4739 2011-05-19 20:20:59 <ersi> then I can't go to work!
4740 2011-05-19 20:21:01 <Namegduf> You have to wait until they are.
4741 2011-05-19 20:21:06 <Namegduf> Simple as that.
4742 2011-05-19 20:21:14 <Namegduf> It's an update they need to do to support newer kernels
4743 2011-05-19 20:21:16 <gjs278> or kernel devs could just leave it in
4744 2011-05-19 20:21:17 <gjs278> simple as that
4745 2011-05-19 20:21:18 <jlewis> gjs278: lol, looks like you're the one fucking yourself with all that whining to deaf ears
4746 2011-05-19 20:21:21 <ersi> BlueMatt: well, they don't piss themselfs and shit them selfs all day long in all kinds of fantastical scenarios
4747 2011-05-19 20:21:40 <ersi> ATi + graphics + drivers is fucking horrible
4748 2011-05-19 20:21:44 <Namegduf> gjs278: If you don't want the kernel devs to change anything, just don't upgrade.
4749 2011-05-19 20:21:46 <Namegduf> Same effect.
4750 2011-05-19 20:21:49 <BlueMatt> ersi: meh, most recent one causes 100% cpu usage on miners and large cpu usage on X
4751 2011-05-19 20:21:50 <gjs278> no
4752 2011-05-19 20:21:54 <Namegduf> Yes.
4753 2011-05-19 20:21:57 <gjs278> I want them to write a better kernel without breaking my drivers
4754 2011-05-19 20:22:09 <jlewis> patch it yourself like a big boy
4755 2011-05-19 20:22:10 <gjs278> they didnt have to kill the option for bkl
4756 2011-05-19 20:22:12 <jlewis> or stop whining
4757 2011-05-19 20:22:13 <gjs278> lol
4758 2011-05-19 20:22:13 <BlueMatt> and I want my drivers to not exploit kernel bugs to work properly
4759 2011-05-19 20:22:15 <ersi> Go fucking prod ATi for better drivers
4760 2011-05-19 20:22:16 <Namegduf> They did to make a better kernel.
4761 2011-05-19 20:22:19 <gjs278> no
4762 2011-05-19 20:22:22 <Namegduf> The BKL was making the kernel bad.
4763 2011-05-19 20:22:22 <gjs278> you are not making a better kernel
4764 2011-05-19 20:22:24 <Namegduf> It was bad.
4765 2011-05-19 20:22:27 <gjs278> by dropping support for every ati card
4766 2011-05-19 20:22:32 <gjs278> that wants to use 3d drivers
4767 2011-05-19 20:22:32 <ersi> Locks are bad, m'kay
4768 2011-05-19 20:22:50 <Namegduf> gjs278: The kernel development should not be held up making major improvements by ATI's laziness
4769 2011-05-19 20:22:57 <gjs278> yes they should
4770 2011-05-19 20:23:05 <gjs278> and it's not even "holding them up"
4771 2011-05-19 20:23:09 <gjs278> it's an option that would still work
4772 2011-05-19 20:23:15 <Namegduf> The BKL has been on the way out for a long, long time.
4773 2011-05-19 20:23:22 <Namegduf> If ATI are still using it, they are holding shit up
4774 2011-05-19 20:23:23 <ersi> Yeah, it's not exactly NEWS
4775 2011-05-19 20:23:24 <Namegduf> Simple as that
4776 2011-05-19 20:23:26 pyros1 has joined
4777 2011-05-19 20:23:36 <gjs278> the kernel developers could have released a kernel of the same quality and left it in
4778 2011-05-19 20:23:42 <gjs278> it's an option that will still work
4779 2011-05-19 20:23:45 <ersi> go enjoy your older kernels then, you smurf ;o
4780 2011-05-19 20:23:51 <Namegduf> No, they couldn't, because the BKL was lowering quality.
4781 2011-05-19 20:23:55 <gjs278> no it wasnt
4782 2011-05-19 20:23:56 <Namegduf> Because it was a design mistake.
4783 2011-05-19 20:23:57 <gjs278> you dont want it
4784 2011-05-19 20:23:58 Schematografter has joined
4785 2011-05-19 20:23:59 <gjs278> you turn it off
4786 2011-05-19 20:24:01 <gjs278> you want it
4787 2011-05-19 20:24:02 <gjs278> you keep it on
4788 2011-05-19 20:24:08 <gjs278> that's the best quality
4789 2011-05-19 20:24:14 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, it's still an optional buildtime component
4790 2011-05-19 20:24:18 <Namegduf> gjs278: You don't want it, you don't upgrade to a version without it
4791 2011-05-19 20:24:22 <ersi> Yeah, I always keep super duper legacy crap around.. you know, just in case!
4792 2011-05-19 20:24:23 <_io_> if you need any asp legacy code worked on atlas does nothing but legacy asp code work all day long every day for the man (and dongs)
4793 2011-05-19 20:24:30 * lupine_85 wonders if the radeonhd driver supports opencl yet
4794 2011-05-19 20:24:33 <gjs278> there are hundreds of deprecated options in the kernel that are not outright removed
4795 2011-05-19 20:24:45 <Namegduf> The BKL requires ugly everywhere to support
4796 2011-05-19 20:24:53 TD has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4797 2011-05-19 20:24:53 <Namegduf> It's *nasty*
4798 2011-05-19 20:25:03 <wumpus> yes it's truly nasty and should die
4799 2011-05-19 20:25:05 <lupine_85> AIUI, the BKL does lock a lot of structures
4800 2011-05-19 20:25:05 <ersi> "No, it's just an magical option dude! That makes my drivers work!"
4801 2011-05-19 20:25:12 <Namegduf> And it being optional does not remove it from the source
4802 2011-05-19 20:25:12 <gjs278> it is a magical option
4803 2011-05-19 20:25:13 <lupine_85> good riddance, I say
4804 2011-05-19 20:25:35 <lupine_85> (with a half-ATi fleet)
4805 2011-05-19 20:25:39 <gjs278> good riddance that every ati card on kernel 2.6.39 can't do opencl because the kernel devs refused to just mark it as deprecated?
4806 2011-05-19 20:25:44 TD has joined
4807 2011-05-19 20:25:45 <lupine_85> yes
4808 2011-05-19 20:25:46 <wumpus> are even legacy depracated kernel options a reason for nostalgia these days?
4809 2011-05-19 20:25:46 <_io_> if you need any asp legacy code worked on atlas does nothing but legacy asp code work all day long every day for the man (and dongs)
4810 2011-05-19 20:25:47 <Namegduf> It's been deprecated for a long time.
4811 2011-05-19 20:25:47 <gjs278> lol
4812 2011-05-19 20:25:49 <gjs278> ok then
4813 2011-05-19 20:25:57 <lupine_85> maybe it'll give the radeonhd people a boot up the arse
4814 2011-05-19 20:25:59 <Namegduf> ATI's fault.
4815 2011-05-19 20:26:06 <gjs278> it's not ati's fault
4816 2011-05-19 20:26:13 <Namegduf> Yes, it is.
4817 2011-05-19 20:26:13 <lupine_85> it is
4818 2011-05-19 20:26:16 <gjs278> the option added still boots and runs fine
4819 2011-05-19 20:26:23 <lupine_85> they should have dropped fglrx and put their effort into radeonhd instead
4820 2011-05-19 20:26:27 <gjs278> lol
4821 2011-05-19 20:26:32 <Namegduf> It is ATI's fault for replying on deprecated stuff.
4822 2011-05-19 20:26:35 <lupine_85> then their code wouldn't rely on BKL
4823 2011-05-19 20:26:40 <ersi> Yes, companies should support their products.
4824 2011-05-19 20:26:41 <lupine_85> because the developers would have fixed it for them
4825 2011-05-19 20:26:43 <ersi> Not everyone else.
4826 2011-05-19 20:26:43 <Namegduf> Not the Linux kernel's fault for removing depcreated stuff.
4827 2011-05-19 20:26:47 <gjs278> yes it is
4828 2011-05-19 20:26:49 <lupine_85> derp
4829 2011-05-19 20:26:55 <ersi> herpa derp
4830 2011-05-19 20:27:00 <gjs278> leave the option in, it does no harm to anyone to leave it there
4831 2011-05-19 20:27:04 <Namegduf> Yes, it does.
4832 2011-05-19 20:27:06 <ersi> yes it does
4833 2011-05-19 20:27:07 <lupine_85> it does do harm
4834 2011-05-19 20:27:08 <gjs278> especially when ati is still relying on it
4835 2011-05-19 20:27:16 <gjs278> having code that you do not turn on does not do har
4836 2011-05-19 20:27:16 <Namegduf> Does the word "maintainability" mean anything to you?
4837 2011-05-19 20:27:17 <gjs278> m
4838 2011-05-19 20:27:19 <wumpus> ati should just stop relying on it
4839 2011-05-19 20:27:19 <jgarzik> [BOUNTY] sha256 shader for Linux OSS video drivers (445 BTC pledged) - http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=4618.0
4840 2011-05-19 20:27:20 <gjs278> yes it does
4841 2011-05-19 20:27:21 <Namegduf> Yes, it does.
4842 2011-05-19 20:27:23 <lupine_85> everywhere that touches things locked by the BKL has to check the BKL
4843 2011-05-19 20:27:24 <wumpus> that's obvious
4844 2011-05-19 20:27:24 <Namegduf> Said code has to be maintained.
4845 2011-05-19 20:27:31 <ersi> The corner you should launch your head at is ATi
4846 2011-05-19 20:27:37 <gjs278> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ba8216cd90560bc402f52076f64d8546e8aefcb
4847 2011-05-19 20:27:39 <Namegduf> Said code remains in the source and uglifying it.
4848 2011-05-19 20:27:40 <gjs278> thats the bkl patch
4849 2011-05-19 20:27:44 <gjs278> that is not even that much code
4850 2011-05-19 20:27:49 <MrHako>  Diablo-D3 i have 3 GPU's at some point diablominer only outputs the queue and work for the 2 of the GPUs last time #1 was missing - why is this?
4851 2011-05-19 20:27:51 <wumpus> but of course, ATI can never do anything wrong, they're like Apple!
4852 2011-05-19 20:28:00 <jgarzik> fully open source mining is possible
4853 2011-05-19 20:28:02 <jgarzik> see that thread
4854 2011-05-19 20:28:09 <jgarzik> if you are a coder... help
4855 2011-05-19 20:28:19 <gjs278> you guys are morons
4856 2011-05-19 20:28:20 <MrHako> Diablo-D3 btw all 3 are running fine for an amount of time before that happens
4857 2011-05-19 20:28:20 <jgarzik> no need for fglrx
4858 2011-05-19 20:28:25 <lupine_85> gjs278, now look at the shortlog
4859 2011-05-19 20:28:29 <gjs278> I don't care about theoretical bullshit
4860 2011-05-19 20:28:34 <gjs278> I care that an ati driver can load
4861 2011-05-19 20:28:34 <ersi> Man, should have a karma bot here
4862 2011-05-19 20:28:35 <gjs278> that's it
4863 2011-05-19 20:28:36 <lupine_85> there are lots and lots of extra patches removing BKL from other palces
4864 2011-05-19 20:28:38 <lupine_85> places*
4865 2011-05-19 20:28:40 <Namegduf> gjs278: Then don't update your kernel
4866 2011-05-19 20:28:43 <Namegduf> gjs278: Works fine
4867 2011-05-19 20:28:46 <wumpus> well then use an old kernel, it still works right?
4868 2011-05-19 20:28:47 <ersi> ;;karma gjs278 -50
4869 2011-05-19 20:28:47 <gribble> Error: "karma" is not a valid command.
4870 2011-05-19 20:28:47 <gjs278> and the kernel still boots on 38-r5 with it on
4871 2011-05-19 20:28:58 <lupine_85> places that would still need to check the BKL if it were present
4872 2011-05-19 20:29:06 <ersi> But he wants the latest of the latest!
4873 2011-05-19 20:29:12 <ersi> Not the version prior to that!
4874 2011-05-19 20:29:18 <ersi> Waaah waah waah
4875 2011-05-19 20:29:18 <gjs278> I do
4876 2011-05-19 20:29:25 * ersi calls the whaaaaaaaaambulance
4877 2011-05-19 20:29:28 <gjs278> there's no good reason to kill every ati driver on your new kernel
4878 2011-05-19 20:29:31 <wumpus> whaaaa 
4879 2011-05-19 20:29:34 <ersi> whaaaa
4880 2011-05-19 20:29:38 <gjs278> lol
4881 2011-05-19 20:29:42 <lupine_85> course there is
4882 2011-05-19 20:29:42 <Namegduf> gjs278: Well, you can't, because part of being latest is removing LONG deprecated crap that slows down and uglifies the kernel.
4883 2011-05-19 20:29:48 <Namegduf> What you're asking for would not let you run the latest
4884 2011-05-19 20:29:56 <gjs278> yes it would
4885 2011-05-19 20:30:02 <Namegduf> It would just stop anyone else from having a good new version, too
4886 2011-05-19 20:30:08 <gjs278> no it wouldnt
4887 2011-05-19 20:30:12 <ersi> But he doesn't want good
4888 2011-05-19 20:30:13 <phantomcircuit> Namegduf, you realize that the BKL is only used where absolutely necessary right?
4889 2011-05-19 20:30:13 <lupine_85> that a single binary-only driver *still* depends on a feature that's been deprecated for years is not a good reason to keep the feature
4890 2011-05-19 20:30:16 <lupine_85> well, anti-feature
4891 2011-05-19 20:30:25 <Namegduf> phantomcircuit: It's not used at all anymore. It's been patched out. Thus his complaint.
4892 2011-05-19 20:30:33 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4893 2011-05-19 20:30:36 <lupine_85> BKL is unnecessary everywhere :)
4894 2011-05-19 20:30:36 <Namegduf> phantomcircuit: It has to be checked everywhere that accesses stuff that might be locked, though.
4895 2011-05-19 20:30:40 <lupine_85> including the ATi drivers
4896 2011-05-19 20:30:41 <gjs278> that a single binary driver that is used by every ati card to do 3d still depends on a feature is plenty of reason to keep it
4897 2011-05-19 20:30:48 <Namegduf> Nope.
4898 2011-05-19 20:30:52 <lupine_85> gjs278, not to a kernel developer, it isn't
4899 2011-05-19 20:30:59 <lupine_85> video drivers barely register to most of them
4900 2011-05-19 20:31:02 <wumpus> kernel developers don't care about closed source binary drivers
4901 2011-05-19 20:31:05 <JFK911> gjs278: that's what microsoft might do
4902 2011-05-19 20:31:10 <Namegduf> Linux is used on many systems everywhere; embedded, servers, etc.
4903 2011-05-19 20:31:10 <lupine_85> and rightly so - they've got more important things to worry about
4904 2011-05-19 20:31:12 <gjs278> yes they do
4905 2011-05-19 20:31:18 <lupine_85> *barely* *registers*
4906 2011-05-19 20:31:21 <Namegduf> Desktop use is only a little bit of it, and fglrx only a small part of that.
4907 2011-05-19 20:31:22 <lupine_85> people need to read more LWN
4908 2011-05-19 20:31:29 <wumpus> exactly lupine_85
4909 2011-05-19 20:31:42 <Namegduf> Your shitty driver relying on long obsoleted stuff which was a horrible design fault
4910 2011-05-19 20:31:52 <Namegduf> Is not a reason to not finally burn it
4911 2011-05-19 20:31:57 <gjs278> yes it is
4912 2011-05-19 20:31:58 <lupine_85> gjs278, you could always grab git head and do a git backout (or whatever they call it) for that one patch
4913 2011-05-19 20:32:01 <MrHako> Guys what are the possible reasons for an empty workqueue? I went from AGGRESSION=11 to 8 to deal with this and even set the queue from 1 to 3 on all 3 GPUs - problem still occurs
4914 2011-05-19 20:32:01 <lupine_85> since "it's the only one"
4915 2011-05-19 20:32:06 <gjs278> it is the only one
4916 2011-05-19 20:32:11 <lupine_85> then you'll be able to have your cake and eat it too
4917 2011-05-19 20:32:13 <Namegduf> gjs278: You need to put forward an argument beyond "yes it is"
4918 2011-05-19 20:32:19 <JFK911> Install Windows
4919 2011-05-19 20:32:20 <Pilate> MrHako: phoenix being buggy
4920 2011-05-19 20:32:22 <JFK911> Enjoy
4921 2011-05-19 20:32:27 <wumpus> you could start a big kernel lock museum even
4922 2011-05-19 20:32:31 <gjs278> you need to put forward an argument that killing support for every ati card is a good idea
4923 2011-05-19 20:32:38 <lupine_85> I can see several more in the shortlog
4924 2011-05-19 20:32:39 <wumpus> porting it to postiority!
4925 2011-05-19 20:32:52 <MrHako> Pilate but when i try DiabloMiner it also lacks output on one random GPU at some point too.
4926 2011-05-19 20:32:57 <Namegduf> gjs278: The kernel developers disagree that ATI driver support for a tiny segment of their users is worth holding up major design improvements indefinitely
4927 2011-05-19 20:33:04 <lupine_85> gjs278, the only things left using BKL were "features" like ipx and fglrx
4928 2011-05-19 20:33:06 <Namegduf> gjs278: So I guess for all you insist it is, it doesn't matter.
4929 2011-05-19 20:33:06 <gjs278> "tiny segment"
4930 2011-05-19 20:33:12 <lupine_85> crusty old drivers that *?nobody cares about*
4931 2011-05-19 20:33:12 <Namegduf> Yes, tiny segment.
4932 2011-05-19 20:33:12 <jgarzik> At today's exchange rate, the bounty for FOSS mining is over $3,100.  Post includes links to source code examples showing how to program a radeon with FOSS drivers.  Screw fglrx.
4933 2011-05-19 20:33:15 <gjs278> ati cards are not a tiny segment
4934 2011-05-19 20:33:18 <Namegduf> Yes, they are.
4935 2011-05-19 20:33:25 <Namegduf> Linux servers are more major than desktops
4936 2011-05-19 20:33:32 <Namegduf> Linux-based phones are more major than desktops
4937 2011-05-19 20:33:41 <Namegduf> Linux-based home routers are more major than desktops
4938 2011-05-19 20:33:44 <lupine_85> ATi cards not serviced by radeonhd are definitely a tiny minority
4939 2011-05-19 20:33:48 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
4940 2011-05-19 20:33:52 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: pong
4941 2011-05-19 20:33:59 <wumpus> jgarzik: yeah, didn't AMD release the specs for their hardware? fglrx indeed doesn't matter
4942 2011-05-19 20:34:01 <Namegduf> And ATI cards using fglrx are a small minority of desktop usage.
4943 2011-05-19 20:34:06 <ersi> Fuck old ATi cards in the power plug
4944 2011-05-19 20:34:07 <gjs278> it really isnt
4945 2011-05-19 20:34:09 <jgarzik> wumpus: yep, open docs and open source
4946 2011-05-19 20:34:10 <lupine_85> and ATi will have their driver updated by the time latest kernel gets into releases
4947 2011-05-19 20:34:19 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: can we move to db 4.8 on 4.0 to match the osx/debian releases (as we are already breaking wallet compat. for ekeys anyway)
4948 2011-05-19 20:34:20 <Namegduf> gjs278: Reasoning?
4949 2011-05-19 20:34:22 <gjs278> any 3d support relies on fglrx
4950 2011-05-19 20:34:26 <lupine_85> because if your kernel version isn't in a distribution, your chances for support are minimal
4951 2011-05-19 20:34:29 <Namegduf> False.
4952 2011-05-19 20:34:29 <lupine_85> gjs278, not true any more
4953 2011-05-19 20:34:34 <Namegduf> (For a long time)
4954 2011-05-19 20:34:35 <gjs278> can I opencl
4955 2011-05-19 20:34:37 <gjs278> without fglrx
4956 2011-05-19 20:34:41 <lupine_85> nope, that's what's missing
4957 2011-05-19 20:34:43 <gjs278> ok
4958 2011-05-19 20:34:44 <Namegduf> That's not "any 3D support"
4959 2011-05-19 20:34:44 <ersi> I havn't seen someone this off base in a while :D
4960 2011-05-19 20:34:45 <gjs278> so do that
4961 2011-05-19 20:34:49 <gjs278> and then kill support for bkl
4962 2011-05-19 20:34:49 <wumpus> gjs278: then buy an nvidia card, they keep their closed sourcfe linux drivers at least up to date
4963 2011-05-19 20:34:50 <lupine_85> do it yourself
4964 2011-05-19 20:34:54 <lupine_85> you're the one who wants it
4965 2011-05-19 20:34:55 <gjs278> why would I buy a nvidia card
4966 2011-05-19 20:34:58 <gjs278> for bitcoining
4967 2011-05-19 20:34:58 <jgarzik> gjs278: yes -- see link I just poed
4968 2011-05-19 20:35:00 <gjs278> that makes no sense
4969 2011-05-19 20:35:02 <jgarzik> *posted
4970 2011-05-19 20:35:08 <ersi> I never wrote that
4971 2011-05-19 20:35:13 <wumpus> for 3d in linux it makes sense, not for bitcoin mining, but you were talking about 3d
4972 2011-05-19 20:35:16 <ersi> I wrote for drivers and graphics
4973 2011-05-19 20:35:17 <Namegduf> gjs278: None of that matters, at any rate. The key thing is that statistic minorities of usage do not get to hold things up indefinitely.
4974 2011-05-19 20:35:19 <lupine_85> you're suggesting the kernel devs inconvenience themselves for you, with no apparent reason
4975 2011-05-19 20:35:19 <gjs278> I have seen it
4976 2011-05-19 20:35:25 <gjs278> I hope it happens but until it does
4977 2011-05-19 20:35:26 Nes-asleep is now known as Nesetalis
4978 2011-05-19 20:35:27 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
4979 2011-05-19 20:35:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125148 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1859 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 1 hour, 56 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 286443.52465523
4980 2011-05-19 20:35:30 <lupine_85> stuff that
4981 2011-05-19 20:35:31 <gjs278> it would be cool not to kill support for every ati card
4982 2011-05-19 20:35:35 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
4983 2011-05-19 20:35:36 <Namegduf> gjs278: If you object to that, I guess that's your problem
4984 2011-05-19 20:35:43 <ersi> It's way cooler to do it
4985 2011-05-19 20:35:57 Nicksasa is now known as AFK!~Nick@178-117-211-223.access.telenet.be|Nicksasa
4986 2011-05-19 20:36:03 <Namegduf> gjs278: Perhaps, but it's even cooler to keep updating the OS for its statistically significant applications.
4987 2011-05-19 20:36:06 * luke-jr glares at wumpus
4988 2011-05-19 20:36:07 * lupine_85 is within a whisker of being able to send version and verack packets using the bitcoin wire protocol
4989 2011-05-19 20:36:07 <lupine_85> woohoo
4990 2011-05-19 20:36:09 <gjs278> yeah
4991 2011-05-19 20:36:16 <gjs278> because updating the kernel to support 8 gpus was a huge indemand feature
4992 2011-05-19 20:36:24 <gjs278> imagine all of the people waiting for that one
4993 2011-05-19 20:36:28 <gjs278> why did they even bother writing that
4994 2011-05-19 20:36:35 traviscj has joined
4995 2011-05-19 20:36:40 <lupine_85> gjs278, probably as many as need the 256-CPU support
4996 2011-05-19 20:36:43 <gjs278> exactly
4997 2011-05-19 20:36:50 <luke-jr> gjs278: ATi cards work fine in Linux including 3D support
4998 2011-05-19 20:36:50 <Namegduf> Tthird party drivers are broken all the time, anyway
4999 2011-05-19 20:36:51 <gjs278> they dont just write features base don how many people need them
5000 2011-05-19 20:36:52 <lupine_85> which is to say, more than are inconvenienced by the lack of fglrc right now
5001 2011-05-19 20:36:54 <wumpus> gjs278: that's the risk of using closed source drivers with linux, they have no obligation to keep any kind of compatibility between releases
5002 2011-05-19 20:36:55 <lupine_85> fglrx*
5003 2011-05-19 20:37:03 <Namegduf> It doesn't stop Linux supporting the third party drivers
5004 2011-05-19 20:37:07 <luke-jr> wumpus: closed source forks of Linux*
5005 2011-05-19 20:37:09 <lupine_85> the vast majority of people using fglrx are on 2.6.35 *or earlier*
5006 2011-05-19 20:37:21 <Namegduf> It just means those people can't run bleeding edge kernels.
5007 2011-05-19 20:37:24 <luke-jr> Namegduf: they're illegal, why would Linux developers want to support something infringing on their copyright?
5008 2011-05-19 20:37:25 <Namegduf> Until the driver catches up.
5009 2011-05-19 20:37:29 <lupine_85> by the time people get around to using 2.6.38+, fglrx will be fixed
5010 2011-05-19 20:37:31 <gjs278> anything less than .38 doesnt have the scheduling changes
5011 2011-05-19 20:37:34 <gjs278> well
5012 2011-05-19 20:37:37 <wumpus> luke-jr: yeah
5013 2011-05-19 20:37:40 <lupine_85> the kernel devs have given the ATi devs no choice but to fix it
5014 2011-05-19 20:37:41 <gjs278> 11.5 was released not too long ago
5015 2011-05-19 20:37:49 <gjs278> there's on reason to do that
5016 2011-05-19 20:37:54 <luke-jr> go Intel
5017 2011-05-19 20:37:57 <lupine_85> if they'd left it in, the ATi guys wouldn't be fixing it
5018 2011-05-19 20:38:00 <luke-jr> Intel GPUs are the best for 3D in Linux
5019 2011-05-19 20:38:03 <gjs278> they are
5020 2011-05-19 20:38:05 <luke-jr> the new ones that is
5021 2011-05-19 20:38:18 <wumpus> they're slow though
5022 2011-05-19 20:38:21 <luke-jr> nope
5023 2011-05-19 20:38:25 <luke-jr> faster than any nvidia or ATi
5024 2011-05-19 20:38:34 <wumpus> compared to mid/high end cards of other companies
5025 2011-05-19 20:38:36 <gjs278> I was able to play doom3 on an intel gpu before
5026 2011-05-19 20:38:50 <luke-jr> wumpus: Intel's current generation of GPUs beats nvidia and ATi
5027 2011-05-19 20:38:51 <Namegduf> gjs278: Then I guess you should ask ATI why they were replying on something which "is used to protect legacy code that hasn't been migrated to a proper locking setup yet"
5028 2011-05-19 20:38:51 <_io_> if you need any asp legacy code worked on atlas does nothing but legacy asp code work all day long every day for the man (and dongs)
5029 2011-05-19 20:38:57 <luke-jr> under Linux
5030 2011-05-19 20:39:07 <Namegduf> *relying on
5031 2011-05-19 20:39:11 <wumpus> luke-jr: do you have any source for that?
5032 2011-05-19 20:39:27 <luke-jr> wumpus: sure, personal experience plus benchmarks online
5033 2011-05-19 20:39:33 <wumpus> intel is pretty okay, but only as far as embedded gpus go
5034 2011-05-19 20:39:36 <luke-jr> on Windows, obviously nvidia/ATi win
5035 2011-05-19 20:39:40 <luke-jr> but on Linux, Intel beats them both
5036 2011-05-19 20:39:43 <wumpus> nvidia and ati beat the shit out of intel
5037 2011-05-19 20:39:48 <luke-jr> wumpus: I'm not talking about the old crap
5038 2011-05-19 20:39:53 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: hmm
5039 2011-05-19 20:39:55 <luke-jr> just the new Sandy Bridge APUs
5040 2011-05-19 20:39:56 <wumpus> with more high end cards
5041 2011-05-19 20:40:00 <Namegduf> luke-jr: Link to the benchmarks?
5042 2011-05-19 20:40:02 <wumpus> do you see anyone mining on intel gpus?
5043 2011-05-19 20:40:03 <ArtForzZz> luke-jr: doing what? drawing a single flat triangle?
5044 2011-05-19 20:40:06 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I admit I have not thought through db4 upgrade issues
5045 2011-05-19 20:40:09 <wumpus> lol indeed ArtForzZz
5046 2011-05-19 20:40:12 <jrmithdobbs> wumpus: they suck for mining
5047 2011-05-19 20:40:15 <luke-jr> Namegduf: somewhere on http://phoronix.com/
5048 2011-05-19 20:40:17 <lupine_85> sounds like atlas has a crap day every day
5049 2011-05-19 20:40:22 <gjs278> o god phoroniz
5050 2011-05-19 20:40:25 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I've been using > 4.8 for some time (db 5.0 on Fedora 14)
5051 2011-05-19 20:40:28 <ArtForzZz> moronix benchmarks... ugh.
5052 2011-05-19 20:40:41 <gjs278> they have the article that claims the power consumption is still broken on liux
5053 2011-05-19 20:40:44 <Namegduf> luke-jr: Phoronix results on Linux are known for their... tempermentality
5054 2011-05-19 20:40:49 <jrmithdobbs> wumpus: opencl impl isn't there yet
5055 2011-05-19 20:40:53 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ignoring logs, do we know what database data structures changed?
5056 2011-05-19 20:40:55 <Namegduf> They vary, a lot.
5057 2011-05-19 20:40:57 <wumpus> they probably only used the open source drivers
5058 2011-05-19 20:40:58 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I only ask because the osx builds already use db4.8, as do the debian official ones...I dont really want to go to 5.0 yet as many distros dont have it in packages
5059 2011-05-19 20:41:05 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: db_upgrade or DB_UPGRADE should work for most folks
5060 2011-05-19 20:41:09 <luke-jr> wumpus: that's Linux
5061 2011-05-19 20:41:16 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: only logs change between 4.7 and .8, but between 4.X and 5.0 db structure has ahcnged
5062 2011-05-19 20:41:20 <lupine_85> lack of backward compatibility makes me sad :(
5063 2011-05-19 20:41:21 <BlueMatt> changed*
5064 2011-05-19 20:41:27 <luke-jr> wumpus: warez don't count
5065 2011-05-19 20:41:34 <ArtForzZz> luke-jr: in that case, intel gets 0 score, as any other GPU
5066 2011-05-19 20:41:36 jivvz has joined
5067 2011-05-19 20:41:37 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: well, overall user experience is more important than picking one version to rule them all -- because as you see in the field, people use varying versions anyway
5068 2011-05-19 20:41:40 <ArtForzZz> X11 is not linux
5069 2011-05-19 20:41:53 <luke-jr> ArtForzZz: I'm ignoring you until you stop trolling
5070 2011-05-19 20:42:02 <ArtForzZz> rofl
5071 2011-05-19 20:42:11 <jgarzik> ArtForzZz: that is not as true as it used to be...
5072 2011-05-19 20:42:22 <wumpus> linux is killing X11
5073 2011-05-19 20:42:31 <jrmithdobbs> X11 killed itself long ago
5074 2011-05-19 20:43:03 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
5075 2011-05-19 20:43:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125149 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1858 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 1 hour, 16 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 286565.28990274
5076 2011-05-19 20:43:11 <gjs278> "X11 is dead" *types this from X11*
5077 2011-05-19 20:43:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: true, but as long as we are doing our own builds (I hope its only important for win32 sometime in the future) we should chose one...IMHO using the same on everything for wallet portability would be nice, so 4.8 is IMHO the one to chose...
5078 2011-05-19 20:43:24 <BlueMatt> (at least for win)
5079 2011-05-19 20:43:46 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: so far I cannot find a flaw in your logic :)
5080 2011-05-19 20:43:50 <jgarzik> maybe I just need more Pepsi
5081 2011-05-19 20:44:02 <BlueMatt> lol, ok well we've still got a while before 0.4.0 anyway so...
5082 2011-05-19 20:44:30 <BlueMatt> just something to think about
5083 2011-05-19 20:44:44 <lupine_85> I dunno, isn't Xorg getting better - slowly?
5084 2011-05-19 20:44:47 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: maybe open an issue and/or forum post?
5085 2011-05-19 20:44:55 <lupine_85> it's not like the Y server is getting anywhere
5086 2011-05-19 20:44:55 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: will do
5087 2011-05-19 20:44:58 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: something that should be discussed outside #bitcoin-dev, I would think
5088 2011-05-19 20:44:59 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, in fits and spurts
5089 2011-05-19 20:45:12 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: fair enough
5090 2011-05-19 20:45:39 <HaltingState> Need Community Response: People on Quora are misleading people about bitcoin.  Adam is claiming that bitcoin is a bank and will fail in a bank run collapse scenario.  We need people to downvote his answer and mark it not helpful and upvote pro-bitcoin answers http://www.quora.com/Bitcoin/Is-the-cryptocurrency-Bitcoin-a-good-idea
5091 2011-05-19 20:45:57 <gjs278> anything to increase the value of these coins HaltingState
5092 2011-05-19 20:45:58 <jgarzik> HaltingState: try #bitcoin
5093 2011-05-19 20:46:21 <HaltingState> "Bitcoin is a ludicrously bad idea. It is a scam. A Scam. It is not a currency." -Adam Cohen
5094 2011-05-19 20:46:57 <HaltingState> 29,000 people read this article and its complete non-sense and is not factually correct
5095 2011-05-19 20:47:05 <lupine_85> cheer up
5096 2011-05-19 20:47:17 <lupine_85> at least people don't believe what they read on the internet any more
5097 2011-05-19 20:47:34 <edcba> we don't care what others are thinking
5098 2011-05-19 20:47:43 <gjs278> the longer it takes people to adopt the coins, the more you can mine for yourself at the start
5099 2011-05-19 20:48:03 <HaltingState> comon, it takes like 10 people and 5 second to mark his answer not helpful and bury it
5100 2011-05-19 20:48:05 <C4colo> so my previous statement is not correct
5101 2011-05-19 20:48:06 <lupine_85> incidentally, can anyone think of what an algorithmic version of a land value tax that could technically (not necessarily desirably) be applied to bitcoin ?
5102 2011-05-19 20:48:18 <wumpus> it's a scam!
5103 2011-05-19 20:48:18 <lupine_85> I've been mulling it over for the past couple of days but haven't come up with a working model yet
5104 2011-05-19 20:48:25 <C4colo> you must pass the new header each iteration so the noonce increment is included?
5105 2011-05-19 20:48:25 <HaltingState> a scam1!!
5106 2011-05-19 20:48:35 stahi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5107 2011-05-19 20:48:36 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, a land value tax? you mean taxation based on wealth holdings?
5108 2011-05-19 20:49:00 <lupine_85> yeah, pretty much. LVT is a period tax on the unimproved value of land holdings
5109 2011-05-19 20:49:05 <lupine_85> periodic*
5110 2011-05-19 20:49:05 <wumpus> if I got a bitcoin for every time people called it a scam, I'd be rich
5111 2011-05-19 20:49:06 eao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5112 2011-05-19 20:49:18 <lupine_85> so if someone builds a stadium nearby and the value of the land goes up, you pay more tax
5113 2011-05-19 20:49:21 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, no there is no way to run that with bitcoin
5114 2011-05-19 20:49:29 <lupine_85> (rather than collecting all that extra value as an unearned windfall)
5115 2011-05-19 20:49:32 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8988.0
5116 2011-05-19 20:49:48 <lupine_85> well, I'm sure there are changes that could be made to implement something similar, I just can't think of a workable schema
5117 2011-05-19 20:49:54 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, also that's a pretty dumb tax system, that would just simply be capital gains
5118 2011-05-19 20:49:59 <edcba> haha why would you spend your money if it deflates
5119 2011-05-19 20:50:01 <lupine_85> (and I'm not suggesting that said changes be made, I'm just trying to get a feel for how it should be)
5120 2011-05-19 20:50:05 <edcba> eating maybe ? :)
5121 2011-05-19 20:50:08 WakiMiko has joined
5122 2011-05-19 20:50:16 <lupine_85> phantomcircuit, it's so dumb that leading economists have been calling for it to replace the tax system in its entirety for nearly 200 years
5123 2011-05-19 20:50:21 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, the only way to do that would be to require people to register their bitcoins
5124 2011-05-19 20:50:54 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, yeah how do you value land without selling it in a market place?
5125 2011-05-19 20:51:02 <lupine_85> witih a valuer
5126 2011-05-19 20:51:06 <phantomcircuit> lol
5127 2011-05-19 20:51:14 <lupine_85> valuing land is a well-established field
5128 2011-05-19 20:51:32 C4colo has left ("brb")
5129 2011-05-19 20:51:35 <phantomcircuit> so an arbitrary government official decides the taxes you pay based entirely on what they think your property is worth?
5130 2011-05-19 20:51:44 <lupine_85> no, it's reasonably quantitative
5131 2011-05-19 20:51:45 <phantomcircuit> yes i know this is how property taxes work
5132 2011-05-19 20:51:52 <lupine_85> LVT is tax on the land, not the property
5133 2011-05-19 20:51:56 <lupine_85> like I said, unimproved value
5134 2011-05-19 20:52:16 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, so then they throw some shitty shack on it and bam it's improved
5135 2011-05-19 20:52:27 <lupine_85> yes, and you don't count the value of the shack
5136 2011-05-19 20:52:48 <lupine_85> you only count the value of the land, such valuation being a well-established practice
5137 2011-05-19 20:52:53 <phantomcircuit> there is no valid way to value anything but in a market place
5138 2011-05-19 20:52:59 <lupine_85> yes, and that's what they use
5139 2011-05-19 20:53:02 <lupine_85> oddly enough
5140 2011-05-19 20:53:10 <phantomcircuit> hint the most corrupt officials in the US are bar none property assessors
5141 2011-05-19 20:53:13 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
5142 2011-05-19 20:53:53 <edcba> anyway if they really trust their valuation you should have option to sell your property at that valuation to government
5143 2011-05-19 20:54:02 <lupine_85> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax#Assessments.2FAppraisals <-- not easy, but well-established
5144 2011-05-19 20:54:15 <lupine_85> and again, land and property valuations are two different things
5145 2011-05-19 20:54:21 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
5146 2011-05-19 20:54:27 <phantomcircuit> edcba, yeah but that would make sense!
5147 2011-05-19 20:54:27 <lupine_85> *shrug*
5148 2011-05-19 20:54:37 <lupine_85> bitcoin valuations are the easy bit, anyway
5149 2011-05-19 20:54:48 <lupine_85> especially if denominated in bitcoins
5150 2011-05-19 20:54:57 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, true but you'd need voluntary taxation
5151 2011-05-19 20:55:01 C4colo has joined
5152 2011-05-19 20:55:04 <phantomcircuit> which uh doesn't usually work so well
5153 2011-05-19 20:55:07 <gjs278> also jgarzik BlueMatt you really should kill the coin generation. I saw a bunch of people online getting mad because they were running gen coins for up to two months now and not getting anything
5154 2011-05-19 20:55:28 amiller has joined
5155 2011-05-19 20:55:32 <wumpus> it's already killed
5156 2011-05-19 20:55:36 <C4colo> is the message header a fixed-length or does it vary based on the number of transactions and other factors?
5157 2011-05-19 20:55:37 <gjs278> oh ok
5158 2011-05-19 20:55:39 <lupine_85> mm, the only hook you'd really have is for the network to calculate how much "tax" is due on an address at the time that address comes to do a transaction, and refuse the transaction unless the "tax" were paid
5159 2011-05-19 20:55:43 <gjs278> I saw it like two days ago... thats weird
5160 2011-05-19 20:55:48 <gjs278> guess they didnt update
5161 2011-05-19 20:55:49 <jgarzik> gjs278: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8894.0
5162 2011-05-19 20:56:02 <gjs278> cool
5163 2011-05-19 20:56:06 <lupine_85> what happens with the "taxed" money to "fix" the devaluation "problem" is another question entirely
5164 2011-05-19 20:56:12 <jgarzik> C4colo: the block header is always 80 bytes
5165 2011-05-19 20:56:17 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, so you'd just have to get everybody to agree to a change in the protocol that reduces their holdings? uh huh
5166 2011-05-19 20:56:20 <lupine_85> (which I also don't have an answer to. some kind of redistribution, but according to what rules)
5167 2011-05-19 20:56:35 kapsel_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
5168 2011-05-19 20:56:36 dinox has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
5169 2011-05-19 20:56:38 <lupine_85> phantomcircuit, I'm trying to work out what a technically feasible answer is at the moment
5170 2011-05-19 20:56:50 <C4colo> jgarzik, ok, so the noonce is a fixed length and wraps, what about the extranoonce value? is that a fixed size too?
5171 2011-05-19 20:56:53 <wumpus> that's like the crazy person on the forum recommending a block chain reboot 
5172 2011-05-19 20:57:07 <edcba> no it's unlimited iirc
5173 2011-05-19 20:57:11 <lupine_85> "what does it look like?", not "should we do it?" or "will people like it?"
5174 2011-05-19 20:57:23 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, you can keep track of the taxes due on a specific address and follow it, then apply the taxes when they're used like a sales tax
5175 2011-05-19 20:57:31 <edcba> anyway taxs have nothing to do with bitcoin
5176 2011-05-19 20:57:40 <lupine_85> well, I've been putting "tax" in quotes for a reason
5177 2011-05-19 20:57:50 dinox has joined
5178 2011-05-19 20:58:03 <phantomcircuit> also deflation is only an issue in mandatory currencies
5179 2011-05-19 20:58:21 <phantomcircuit> otherwise gold would have destroyed the world by now
5180 2011-05-19 20:58:25 <lupine_85> imagine it as calculating transaction fees due based on the number of bitcoins in that address, and the time they've been in there
5181 2011-05-19 20:58:39 <lupine_85> but giving the transaction fees to the block generator ?probably? wouldn't solve the problem
5182 2011-05-19 20:58:55 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, to do that you'd have to convince the entire network to agree to that
5183 2011-05-19 20:59:00 <phantomcircuit> which i doubt is even possible
5184 2011-05-19 20:59:03 <edcba> not entire
5185 2011-05-19 20:59:03 qwebirc57851 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5186 2011-05-19 20:59:08 <edcba> only 50% :)
5187 2011-05-19 20:59:09 Malamute has quit (Quit: Page closed)
5188 2011-05-19 20:59:10 <lupine_85> I guess it might, if pretty much everyone were involved in block generation via pooled mining
5189 2011-05-19 20:59:14 <C4colo> jgarzik, the extra noonce is not included in the header?
5190 2011-05-19 20:59:22 <lupine_85> phantomcircuit, again, I'm doing the technical part here, not the social part
5191 2011-05-19 20:59:41 <phantomcircuit> edcba, no actually entirely, otherwise you end up with two networks, guess which one most people would use ;)
5192 2011-05-19 20:59:54 <lupine_85> (as it happens, in the UK LVT would vastly benefit the majority of people, and be in their best interests. just not the few holding the most land)
5193 2011-05-19 20:59:56 <psymin> hmm .. how do I tell bitcoind to shutdown gracefully? :)
5194 2011-05-19 21:00:04 <gjs278> bitcoind stop
5195 2011-05-19 21:00:07 <lupine_85> (I suspect a similar pattern would be seen with bitcoins)
5196 2011-05-19 21:00:27 <lupine_85> the majority of people would gain modestly, while a few would lose out considerably
5197 2011-05-19 21:00:32 <psymin> sweet thx
5198 2011-05-19 21:00:40 <lupine_85> but that's not too important
5199 2011-05-19 21:01:58 <lupine_85> the idea is to make hoarding bitcoins in an attempt to make free money out of new entrants less attractive than using them - loaning them, investing them, spending them, whatever
5200 2011-05-19 21:02:06 <jgarzik> C4colo: no
5201 2011-05-19 21:02:18 <lupine_85> which is precisely what LVT does with land
5202 2011-05-19 21:02:30 dinox has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
5203 2011-05-19 21:02:42 <lupine_85> (land and bitcoins have a lot of similarities on an economic level, as far as I can tell)
5204 2011-05-19 21:02:43 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, eh it's not a great plan, a lot of the people with btc have them specifically because it's deflationary
5205 2011-05-19 21:02:58 dinox has joined
5206 2011-05-19 21:02:59 <lupine_85> it'd still be deflationary with the addition of an LVT-alike
5207 2011-05-19 21:03:23 <lupine_85> but profiteering on the back of that characteristic would be reduc ed
5208 2011-05-19 21:03:49 <lupine_85> (and the number of people standing to benefit from such profiteering would be vastly outnumbered by everyone else)
5209 2011-05-19 21:03:57 <lupine_85> but again, I'm not actually proposing to make the change
5210 2011-05-19 21:04:05 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
5211 2011-05-19 21:04:05 <wumpus> I'm not so sure it's actually that much of a problem
5212 2011-05-19 21:04:17 Schematografter is now known as Moonies
5213 2011-05-19 21:04:28 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, again you'd have to convince the people with significant mining power to do that, and they tend to be the people who have the most to lose from such a system
5214 2011-05-19 21:04:28 <lupine_85> whether it's a problem or not depends on how many bitcoins you've got in storage ;)
5215 2011-05-19 21:04:35 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, so i dont think it's very likely
5216 2011-05-19 21:04:36 <wumpus> seems the big bitcoin bubble already ended anyway
5217 2011-05-19 21:04:40 <jgarzik> those darned profiteers, spreading bitcoins and strengthening the network.  darn them.
5218 2011-05-19 21:04:50 <lupine_85> those aren't the profiteers
5219 2011-05-19 21:04:54 * roconnor writes a bitcoin clone with an exponetially increasing supply of coins.
5220 2011-05-19 21:04:55 <wumpus> let's hope the price stabilizes a bit
5221 2011-05-19 21:04:57 <lupine_85> anyone spending bitcoins and moving them around is doing good
5222 2011-05-19 21:05:12 <edcba> roconnor: so money worth nothing ?
5223 2011-05-19 21:05:14 <gjs278> nobody is "spending" them unless they're buying socks
5224 2011-05-19 21:05:18 <lupine_85> anyone hanging onto bitcoins and waiting patiently for the price to rise solely to sell them and profit out of that unearned rise is doing bad
5225 2011-05-19 21:05:24 <gjs278> it's all just trading up and up
5226 2011-05-19 21:05:25 <lupine_85> well, I'd classify it as bad
5227 2011-05-19 21:05:36 <wumpus> I don't think you need to add coins to reduce the price, it will regulate itself
5228 2011-05-19 21:05:41 <jgarzik> if the price goes up, it attracts attention
5229 2011-05-19 21:05:43 <Namegduf> lupine_85: It's an unregulated market by design
5230 2011-05-19 21:06:01 <lupine_85> well, it's algorithmically regulated
5231 2011-05-19 21:06:01 <Namegduf> lupine_85: People acting selfishly shouldn't be able to do bad in it
5232 2011-05-19 21:06:23 <Namegduf> If they do then the system is broken
5233 2011-05-19 21:06:23 manly has quit (Quit: Page closed)
5234 2011-05-19 21:06:24 <roconnor> edcba: no.  You can alway shift the decimal point as time goes on.
5235 2011-05-19 21:06:25 <edcba> it's democratically regulated
5236 2011-05-19 21:06:33 Moonies has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5237 2011-05-19 21:06:44 <lupine_85> the algorithm is democratically regulated and the market is algorithmically regulated :)
5238 2011-05-19 21:06:45 <AAA_awright> edcba: No, it's not democratic
5239 2011-05-19 21:06:53 <lupine_85> for a given value of democracy, anyway
5240 2011-05-19 21:06:53 <roconnor> edcba: it will always be worthe something
5241 2011-05-19 21:06:54 <wumpus> more democratically than the current banking system, at least
5242 2011-05-19 21:06:57 Moonies has joined
5243 2011-05-19 21:07:01 <lupine_85> "one Mhash/sec, one vote"
5244 2011-05-19 21:07:01 <AAA_awright> The distinct feature is it's NOT democracitc
5245 2011-05-19 21:07:12 <AAA_awright> lupine_85: I wouldn't call that democratic
5246 2011-05-19 21:07:14 <edcba> it is since if you can convince majority of a change the change happens
5247 2011-05-19 21:07:18 <AAA_awright> But that's accurate
5248 2011-05-19 21:07:19 vikarti has joined
5249 2011-05-19 21:07:22 <lupine_85> it's a special capitalist form of democracy
5250 2011-05-19 21:07:24 MrHako has left ()
5251 2011-05-19 21:07:30 <phantomcircuit> AAA_awright, that's as close to democracy as anybody has yet gotten...
5252 2011-05-19 21:07:30 <lupine_85> it's like assigning votes to people based on their net economic worth
5253 2011-05-19 21:07:41 <AAA_awright> phantomcircuit: this may be true
5254 2011-05-19 21:07:43 tauri has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
5255 2011-05-19 21:07:45 <lupine_85> (which is a *terrible* idea as it happens, but some people like it)
5256 2011-05-19 21:07:51 <AAA_awright> It's no different than any other currency, though. The currency ends when people decide to stop using it
5257 2011-05-19 21:07:53 jhulten has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
5258 2011-05-19 21:08:06 <AAA_awright> No one is going to vote differently than anyone else, because that isolates them from anyone else
5259 2011-05-19 21:08:13 <edcba> oh ok maybe not "demo" indeed
5260 2011-05-19 21:08:18 <wumpus> lupine_85: it's not like having more bitcoins gives you a bigger vote
5261 2011-05-19 21:08:26 <lupine_85> hence why I said "like"
5262 2011-05-19 21:08:29 <AAA_awright> IF it's democracy, it's more like North Korean democracy
5263 2011-05-19 21:08:36 <lupine_85> the simile is between computing power and economic worth
5264 2011-05-19 21:08:45 <wumpus> AAA_: who's our dear leader?
5265 2011-05-19 21:08:49 <AAA_awright> You don't really have a choice in the matter if you want to do useful things :p
5266 2011-05-19 21:09:02 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, no but there is currently a correlation between btc reserves and compute power (excluding satoshi)
5267 2011-05-19 21:09:06 <AAA_awright> wumpus: True, there's no central leader, just the precedent that everyone else is going with
5268 2011-05-19 21:09:19 <lupine_85> since we don't have any way of establishing identity online, computing power is probably the best we can do
5269 2011-05-19 21:09:34 <lupine_85> well, single identity
5270 2011-05-19 21:10:08 <AAA_awright> That's the biggest feature of the Internet
5271 2011-05-19 21:10:20 <AAA_awright> There is no way to have one person = one anything
5272 2011-05-19 21:10:35 <wumpus> doesn't matter which way you use to determine who has power it will always be unfair to some
5273 2011-05-19 21:10:52 <AAA_awright> It forces you to do things that are actually meaningful, like CPU power or economic wealth instead of one person = one x, as if one person is identical to another
5274 2011-05-19 21:10:55 <lupine_85> hmm, would it be possible to have a Script that says "you can claim these bitcoins now if you're X key, but if they're not claimed by Y time, Z key can claim them instead" ?
5275 2011-05-19 21:11:03 <edcba> maybe with some powerful captcha
5276 2011-05-19 21:11:15 <lupine_85> I guess I'm going to have to write a parser for that too...
5277 2011-05-19 21:11:19 <edcba> solvable by one unique differnt person for each
5278 2011-05-19 21:11:24 toffoo has quit ()
5279 2011-05-19 21:11:26 <jrabbit> AAA_awright: lol.....
5280 2011-05-19 21:11:29 tippenein has joined
5281 2011-05-19 21:11:41 <wumpus> a powerful captcha? what will that do?
5282 2011-05-19 21:12:07 <edcba> s/powerful/magical/
5283 2011-05-19 21:12:15 toffoo has joined
5284 2011-05-19 21:12:21 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, yes but the script stuff necessary for that is disabled
5285 2011-05-19 21:12:24 <lupine_85> mm, it's' just not doable to the kind of levels of assurance you can get in the real world
5286 2011-05-19 21:12:25 <phantomcircuit> because lol bugz
5287 2011-05-19 21:12:26 <wumpus> before you know it, it's so powerful it will rule everything
5288 2011-05-19 21:12:41 <lupine_85> there's no complete parser yet?
5289 2011-05-19 21:12:47 <lupine_85> that's a bit poor :D
5290 2011-05-19 21:12:55 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, there is but the script execution engine is shitty
5291 2011-05-19 21:13:17 <lupine_85> I shall have to work on getting that in my client as a priority then :p
5292 2011-05-19 21:13:25 <phantomcircuit> link?
5293 2011-05-19 21:13:31 <lupine_85> need $features++ if it's going to have any chance at adoption
5294 2011-05-19 21:13:37 <lupine_85> eh, no public code yet
5295 2011-05-19 21:13:42 <phantomcircuit> lang?
5296 2011-05-19 21:13:48 <wumpus> you're making a new client?
5297 2011-05-19 21:13:56 <wumpus> why not just help improve the current one
5298 2011-05-19 21:13:59 <lupine_85> it's not very interesting at the moment - it parses the binary protocol, and runs some skeleton code
5299 2011-05-19 21:14:18 <lupine_85> because the current one doesn't agree with me at all, and it probably never will
5300 2011-05-19 21:14:25 <jrmithdobbs> wumpus: c++
5301 2011-05-19 21:14:27 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, because it's a complete and total mess?
5302 2011-05-19 21:14:30 <wumpus> be different :P
5303 2011-05-19 21:14:33 <lupine_85> phantomcircuit, ruby at the moment
5304 2011-05-19 21:14:43 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, oh, carry on then
5305 2011-05-19 21:14:47 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: then help clean it up
5306 2011-05-19 21:15:05 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, i dont think you understand the degree to which it is fucked
5307 2011-05-19 21:15:08 <mtrlt> the open source approach: make a fork!
5308 2011-05-19 21:15:16 <wumpus> open source needs a community effort, not everyone making their own thing from scratch
5309 2011-05-19 21:15:17 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, there are global variables all over the place and shit
5310 2011-05-19 21:15:23 <luke-jr> jgarzik: jrmithdobbs thinks pushpoold is (usually) vulnerable to a DoS attack; I don't see any way to handle his attack better than pushpool does, but you know the code better
5311 2011-05-19 21:15:24 <wumpus> it's like the gamedev community :p
5312 2011-05-19 21:15:42 pyros1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5313 2011-05-19 21:15:46 <phantomcircuit> a full rewrite will be significantly easier than refactoring the existing code
5314 2011-05-19 21:15:46 <mtrlt> soon there are 100 forks and none of them have all needed features
5315 2011-05-19 21:15:53 <lupine_85> that's a Good Thing
5316 2011-05-19 21:15:53 <phantomcircuit> like orders of magnitude easier
5317 2011-05-19 21:15:54 <lupine_85> promise
5318 2011-05-19 21:15:57 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: I know the source code
5319 2011-05-19 21:16:01 <mtrlt> phantomcircuit: a full rewrite is very rarely better than refactoring
5320 2011-05-19 21:16:05 <luke-jr> mtrlt: nah, the first fork just needs to be open to contributions
5321 2011-05-19 21:16:14 <luke-jr> mtrlt: then the original project dies out eventually
5322 2011-05-19 21:16:20 <phantomcircuit> mtrlt, yes that's generally true, this is one of those instances
5323 2011-05-19 21:16:24 <lupine_85> anyway, we have bitcoinj going on in the background
5324 2011-05-19 21:16:27 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: I'm also working on it, and I need to refactor some things, but I don't think a rewrite would be a good idea at this stage
5325 2011-05-19 21:16:30 <lupine_85> I've not actually paid any attention to it at all
5326 2011-05-19 21:16:36 <mtrlt> ok i haven't taken a look at the code though
5327 2011-05-19 21:17:07 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
5328 2011-05-19 21:17:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125153 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1854 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 0 hours, 11 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 287469.55032440
5329 2011-05-19 21:17:19 <lupine_85> my client will have a single or multi-user mybitcoins.com-style interface too, and be able to use $standard_storage_backends
5330 2011-05-19 21:17:32 <lupine_85> assuming it ever gets out of the door. who knows, I might get really bored and just stop
5331 2011-05-19 21:17:35 <wumpus> a lot of foss projects started as a heap of crap code and improved gradually
5332 2011-05-19 21:17:54 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
5333 2011-05-19 21:18:00 <lupine_85> I enjoy the lack of expectation on a green-field vapourware project :)
5334 2011-05-19 21:18:07 <wumpus> hehe
5335 2011-05-19 21:19:27 <wumpus> well if you do it for fun that's always good, can't go wrong for a learning experience
5336 2011-05-19 21:20:10 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, each to his own
5337 2011-05-19 21:20:25 <phantomcircuit> bitcoin is actually not very complicated, you could never tell from the current source
5338 2011-05-19 21:20:42 <lupine_85> mm, the protocol parsing code I have so far is mostly a delight
5339 2011-05-19 21:20:59 <lupine_85> and the p2p side of things will be a simple state engine
5340 2011-05-19 21:21:16 <wumpus> the current source isn't really complicated either, just very messy
5341 2011-05-19 21:21:18 <lupine_85> I can probably share the same state machine for both sides of the peer
5342 2011-05-19 21:21:20 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, you parsing as a stream or reading messages and then parsing buffers?
5343 2011-05-19 21:21:33 <wumpus> like it was written in a hurry
5344 2011-05-19 21:22:01 <lupine_85> well, you *have* to parse it as a stream. you don't know how long the message is until you've got half of it
5345 2011-05-19 21:22:22 <wumpus> i guess that's very pragmatic of satoshi, better to get something out of the door than to worry endlessly about design details
5346 2011-05-19 21:22:40 <lupine_85> it looks more like a lot of it wasn't really thought about, so he just went with the details
5347 2011-05-19 21:22:43 rtulio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
5348 2011-05-19 21:22:50 <lupine_85> things like using little-endian values in the wire protocol
5349 2011-05-19 21:22:53 <edcba> is there a porn site accepting bitcoins ?
5350 2011-05-19 21:22:56 <lupine_85> they just don't belong there
5351 2011-05-19 21:23:03 <lupine_85> *shrug*
5352 2011-05-19 21:23:09 <phantomcircuit> lupine_85, actually that's wrong there is a length field in the p2p protocol
5353 2011-05-19 21:23:22 <lupine_85> yes, halfway into the packet
5354 2011-05-19 21:23:27 <phantomcircuit> uh no
5355 2011-05-19 21:23:32 <ArtForzZz> no
5356 2011-05-19 21:23:44 <phantomcircuit> 16 bytes into the packet
5357 2011-05-19 21:23:46 <wumpus> lupine_85: you mean native endian? or always little endian on every platform?
5358 2011-05-19 21:23:59 <ArtForzZz> wire protocol is always LE
5359 2011-05-19 21:24:03 <lupine_85> it'd *better* be consistent across platforms
5360 2011-05-19 21:24:04 <phantomcircuit> 4 byte magic, 12 byte command,uint32_t length
5361 2011-05-19 21:24:06 <wumpus> lupine_85: the first is bad, the second isn't... as long it's always the same it's not a problem
5362 2011-05-19 21:24:09 <diki> i tried migrating pushpoold to mysql, but it doesnt want to start...
5363 2011-05-19 21:24:13 <edcba> if it was native endian we would have seen it very soon :)
5364 2011-05-19 21:24:37 <lupine_85> you can't even tell how big the header is until you've read most of it
5365 2011-05-19 21:24:39 <ArtForzZz> but hey, a BE protocol containing blocks/tx with LE values would've *totally* made sense, right?
5366 2011-05-19 21:24:48 fimp has joined
5367 2011-05-19 21:24:55 * roconnor likes bitcoin because it is simple enough to implement himself, but complex enough to be fun.
5368 2011-05-19 21:24:57 <edcba> depends
5369 2011-05-19 21:24:59 <phantomcircuit> ArtForzZz, the blocks/tx shouldn't be le :P
5370 2011-05-19 21:25:05 <lupine_85> ArtForzZz, about as much sense as a LE protocol containing IP addresses in BE
5371 2011-05-19 21:25:07 <wumpus> ArtForzZz: a truly anarchist protocol :p\
5372 2011-05-19 21:25:13 <ArtForzZz> so you want BE bignums?
5373 2011-05-19 21:25:20 <ArtForzZz> aka the most stupid idea ever?
5374 2011-05-19 21:25:26 sytse has quit (Quit: leaving)
5375 2011-05-19 21:25:29 <lupine_85> what're we calling big ?
5376 2011-05-19 21:25:40 <ArtForzZz> anything with more than one machine word
5377 2011-05-19 21:25:45 <edcba> (anyway bitcoin protocol is bad)
5378 2011-05-19 21:25:49 <lupine_85> little-endian wouldn't bother me that much if it were consistent
5379 2011-05-19 21:25:54 <ArtForzZz> it is
5380 2011-05-19 21:25:55 <phantomcircuit> ArtForzZz, you mean for the hashes?
5381 2011-05-19 21:26:01 <ArtForzZz> for everything
5382 2011-05-19 21:26:03 <wumpus> oh man, do we really have a big endian versus little endian fight in here now
5383 2011-05-19 21:26:04 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5384 2011-05-19 21:26:04 <lupine_85> although little-endian bitmasks make for entertaining puzzling-over
5385 2011-05-19 21:26:09 <ArtForzZz> all script values are LE bignums
5386 2011-05-19 21:26:26 eao has joined
5387 2011-05-19 21:26:28 <roconnor> The bignums for private keys are BE IIUC.
5388 2011-05-19 21:26:31 <edcba> anyway most computers are LE now :p
5389 2011-05-19 21:26:35 <wumpus> indeed it doesn't matter shit as long as it is consistent
5390 2011-05-19 21:26:52 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5391 2011-05-19 21:26:53 <ArtForzZz> well, BE bignums in memory suck
5392 2011-05-19 21:26:57 <ArtForzZz> especisally if you have to resize em
5393 2011-05-19 21:27:15 <wumpus> right
5394 2011-05-19 21:27:20 <edcba> left
5395 2011-05-19 21:27:21 pyros1 has joined
5396 2011-05-19 21:27:33 <lupine_85> *shrug* once they get into system RAM, you can have them in whatever format you like. I'm just used to network protocols being big-endian
5397 2011-05-19 21:27:36 <ArtForzZz> as you have move the whole damn thing, and adding/subtracting you walk em from high to low mem address, totally logical...
5398 2011-05-19 21:27:44 <roconnor> The bignums for public keys are also BE, though they are fixed sized.
5399 2011-05-19 21:27:52 <edcba> lupine_85: you have to convert then
5400 2011-05-19 21:27:57 sytse has joined
5401 2011-05-19 21:28:08 <lupine_85> yes. I'm not worried by conversion costs
5402 2011-05-19 21:28:15 <wumpus> one of the things you learn when dealing with a lot of other people's code is that you cannot always have things the way you expect them :)
5403 2011-05-19 21:28:17 <pyros1> So I have the GPu's set up but now it's pushing my GPU temps to 81degrees celsius
5404 2011-05-19 21:28:25 <ArtForzZz> well, BE protocols made sense in the 80s, as most machines were BE
5405 2011-05-19 21:28:39 <Niedar> turned your fans up?
5406 2011-05-19 21:28:40 <roconnor> pyros1: you should now be able to serilize water?
5407 2011-05-19 21:28:44 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5408 2011-05-19 21:28:44 <ArtForzZz> nowadays, it looks like LE won
5409 2011-05-19 21:28:56 <edcba> i thought BE was good for networking because routing was easier to program then
5410 2011-05-19 21:28:59 <lupine_85> by my point wasn't that LE is bad, more that it wasn't thought about when satoshi wrote it. he just grabbed what was in system RAM and sent it across the wire
5411 2011-05-19 21:29:03 <wumpus> and in 20 years BE could 'win' again, and still no one cares :)
5412 2011-05-19 21:29:05 <roconnor> mining bitcoins and purifying water at the same time!
5413 2011-05-19 21:29:16 <pyros1> Niedar fans running at 80% and temp wont' go down
5414 2011-05-19 21:29:27 <pyros1> is there a way of limiting the speed of hashing?
5415 2011-05-19 21:29:34 <wumpus> just put a sleep in
5416 2011-05-19 21:29:43 <pyros1> so -s
5417 2011-05-19 21:29:43 <pyros1> ?
5418 2011-05-19 21:30:01 <wumpus> sleep(100); /* sleep 100 seconds between hashes */
5419 2011-05-19 21:30:08 <ArtForzZz> edcba: well, then why is src addr before dst addr in the ip header ?
5420 2011-05-19 21:30:26 oakland34534 has joined
5421 2011-05-19 21:30:34 <ArtForzZz> if you want fast routing decisions, you want to know where to route it *to*, you don't care where it's *from* ;)
5422 2011-05-19 21:30:38 <edcba> to reject packet not originating from yours ? :)
5423 2011-05-19 21:30:51 gjs278 has joined
5424 2011-05-19 21:30:58 <pyros1> wumpus I'm using GUI miner umm do i just put it in flags for -sleep(100)
5425 2011-05-19 21:30:58 <pyros1> ?
5426 2011-05-19 21:31:05 <wumpus> routing based on source address is indeed pretty rare
5427 2011-05-19 21:31:05 <edcba> ok i don't know where i read that maybe some BE fanatic :)
5428 2011-05-19 21:31:09 <jrmithdobbs> edcba: that's actually the answer iirc stevens properly
5429 2011-05-19 21:31:11 <jrmithdobbs> haah
5430 2011-05-19 21:31:38 <ArtForzZz> yet core routers dont generally bother with source filtering
5431 2011-05-19 21:31:42 <Diablo-D3> ahahah
5432 2011-05-19 21:31:47 <lupine_85> not for the crap ISPs, no :)
5433 2011-05-19 21:31:49 <oakland34534> ight im so confused on how to do this ah
5434 2011-05-19 21:31:50 <Diablo-D3> I just bombed jgarzik's hopes of ever being cool.
5435 2011-05-19 21:31:51 <Niedar> you could also lower memory or clock speed pyros
5436 2011-05-19 21:32:01 <lupine_85> we do, but I've no idea how much extra it costs in terms of CPU cycles
5437 2011-05-19 21:32:03 <luke-jr> does anyone have code to calculate difficulty in real-time?
5438 2011-05-19 21:32:07 <ArtForzZz> lupine_85: if you call the major backbones crap ISPs, then yes
5439 2011-05-19 21:32:07 <wumpus> i've made filtering rules based on source address in the case of multiple outgoing interfaces
5440 2011-05-19 21:32:12 <lupine_85> our core routers are vastly overprovisioned anyway. it's irrelevant
5441 2011-05-19 21:32:16 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: uh, realtime as in every two weeks?
5442 2011-05-19 21:32:17 <luke-jr> ie, based on the last 2016 blocks, but not changing only every 2016
5443 2011-05-19 21:32:19 <ArtForzZz> otherwise, you do the source filtering on the edges, not all over your core routers.
5444 2011-05-19 21:32:23 <pyros1> vcore i set to 1.125 memory is 800, I'm runing dual 5770's
5445 2011-05-19 21:32:23 <Diablo-D3> oh
5446 2011-05-19 21:32:28 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: no, like if it changed every block
5447 2011-05-19 21:32:34 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: check the gribble source?
5448 2011-05-19 21:32:40 <luke-jr> the estimate is not the same
5449 2011-05-19 21:32:40 <pyros1> the -sleep(100) seems to have worked
5450 2011-05-19 21:32:44 <lupine_85> *shrug* we don't have edge routers
5451 2011-05-19 21:32:45 <Diablo-D3> dear people
5452 2011-05-19 21:32:49 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
5453 2011-05-19 21:32:50 <Diablo-D3> STOP CHANGING THE GODDAMNED VOLTAGE
5454 2011-05-19 21:32:52 <luke-jr> right now, gribble's estimate is based on only 150 blocks
5455 2011-05-19 21:32:54 <pyros1> so i assume no gaming while this stuff is running >.>
5456 2011-05-19 21:32:55 <lupine_85> (we're a hosting, not an access, network)
5457 2011-05-19 21:32:57 <luke-jr> which means it's extremely inaccurate
5458 2011-05-19 21:33:03 <lupine_85> and not that big either
5459 2011-05-19 21:33:09 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: yeah but you could probably wham it to do 2016
5460 2011-05-19 21:33:10 <ArtForzZz> lupine_85: well, then by definition you are *only* edges ;)
5461 2011-05-19 21:33:19 sethsethseth___ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
5462 2011-05-19 21:33:23 sethsethseth____ has joined
5463 2011-05-19 21:33:33 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: the bitcoind algorithm doesn't work in a way that it can be adjusted
5464 2011-05-19 21:33:35 <wumpus> but... changing the voltage is fun!
5465 2011-05-19 21:33:39 <lupine_85> I guess it depends on where you're standing
5466 2011-05-19 21:33:51 <luke-jr> it assumes it only changes every 2016 blocks
5467 2011-05-19 21:34:11 <ArtForzZz> lupine_85: anyways, doesnt matter really
5468 2011-05-19 21:34:11 <diki> yo luke, how come pushpoold doesnt start when i hook it up to mysql?
5469 2011-05-19 21:34:16 <wumpus> and it does magical things and makes unicorns fly!
5470 2011-05-19 21:34:27 <diki> i recompiled it with mysql support
5471 2011-05-19 21:34:37 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: meh
5472 2011-05-19 21:34:50 sethsethseth has joined
5473 2011-05-19 21:34:56 <luke-jr> diki: I am not your sysadmin
5474 2011-05-19 21:35:19 <diki> but you do use the pool
5475 2011-05-19 21:35:31 <oakland34534> so how does this even work really?
5476 2011-05-19 21:37:26 oakland34534 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
5477 2011-05-19 21:38:05 pyros1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5478 2011-05-19 21:38:38 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
5479 2011-05-19 21:38:44 chmod755 has joined
5480 2011-05-19 21:38:55 MAHC has joined
5481 2011-05-19 21:39:10 <MAHC> I have a question about bitcoins
5482 2011-05-19 21:39:56 <MAHC> how will this system incentive production and work? wouldn't the people with greatest computational power become the richest?
5483 2011-05-19 21:41:08 <gjs278> I have a question about gold
5484 2011-05-19 21:41:24 <C4colo> it is an inert metallic substance
5485 2011-05-19 21:41:29 <gjs278> how will this system incentive mining and work? wouldn't the people with the greatest mining tools become the richest?
5486 2011-05-19 21:41:38 Raccoon` has joined
5487 2011-05-19 21:41:48 <gjs278> that's your answer MAHC
5488 2011-05-19 21:41:50 <wumpus> MAHC: not neccesarily
5489 2011-05-19 21:42:11 <lupine_85> I'm not sure gold *does* incentivize production and work in non-gold-related activities, as it happens
5490 2011-05-19 21:42:18 <gjs278> well
5491 2011-05-19 21:42:19 <gjs278> it did
5492 2011-05-19 21:42:25 <Cryo> are people who own the best production gold mines the richest?
5493 2011-05-19 21:42:31 <wumpus> MAHC: mining is a pretty lousy way to get bitcoins
5494 2011-05-19 21:42:31 <gjs278> if you got there first
5495 2011-05-19 21:42:34 <gjs278> and you had the best tools
5496 2011-05-19 21:42:35 <gjs278> then yes
5497 2011-05-19 21:42:43 <lupine_85> no, people used it as the exchange token for stuff they would have been doing anywa
5498 2011-05-19 21:42:44 <C4colo> the way bitcoin is design it will encourage pools over individuals as the computational power of the  network increases
5499 2011-05-19 21:42:52 <roconnor> running a mining pool on the other hand ...
5500 2011-05-19 21:42:54 <lupine_85> much like bronze axes and cowrie shells
5501 2011-05-19 21:43:10 <wumpus> MAHC: it's only used to create the coins, apart from that they are simply used as medium of exchange
5502 2011-05-19 21:43:11 <C4colo> because you will be less likely to solve a block on your own, but a large pool will be constantly solving blocks and sharing that with everyone who donated compute cycles
5503 2011-05-19 21:43:18 <lupine_85> you get a boost in activities supporting the currency, but i'm not sure the currency itself is too important
5504 2011-05-19 21:43:21 <lupine_85> as long as there is one
5505 2011-05-19 21:43:31 pyros1 has joined
5506 2011-05-19 21:43:44 <wumpus> are the people with the biggest dollar printing presses the richest?
5507 2011-05-19 21:43:45 <jrmithdobbs> but bitcoin is free money for everybody! this wont work!
5508 2011-05-19 21:43:46 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
5509 2011-05-19 21:43:59 <MAHC> pretty much yeah
5510 2011-05-19 21:44:03 <C4colo> individual miners are not necessarily a good thing for the network ... they are flaky and sporadic ... pools can be relied on
5511 2011-05-19 21:44:17 <C4colo> bitcoin is not free
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5513 2011-05-19 21:44:21 Raccoon` is now known as Raccoon
5514 2011-05-19 21:44:47 <Namegduf> MAHC: Coin generation is incentivised as a form of work, but so is all other production as normal.
5515 2011-05-19 21:44:54 yuzhe has joined
5516 2011-05-19 21:44:56 <C4colo> I can only "invent" bitcoin according to the protocol itself.  If I didn't solve a block and I just say "I'm sending you 5000000 BTC" the network will reject it because it is not based on the solving of a block
5517 2011-05-19 21:45:17 <jrmithdobbs> C4colo: not exactly
5518 2011-05-19 21:45:19 <Namegduf> At present CPU mining isn't even incentivised; it isn't worth the electricity.
5519 2011-05-19 21:45:22 <jrmithdobbs> but close enough
5520 2011-05-19 21:45:22 <wumpus> yeah it doesn't allow sending negative amounts either :(
5521 2011-05-19 21:45:32 <XX01XX> it's not really "coin generation"... you're hashing outstanding transactions into the blockchain... and you get paid for performing that work.
5522 2011-05-19 21:45:34 <lupine_85> it probably should
5523 2011-05-19 21:45:35 <C4colo> jrmithdobbs, please correct me, I'm trying to learn this as fast as possible
5524 2011-05-19 21:45:44 <lupine_85> that'd be a really good way of implementing debits
5525 2011-05-19 21:45:44 <C4colo> what part was not exactly correct?
5526 2011-05-19 21:45:55 <jrmithdobbs> C4colo: only if you'll let me host my space heaters at your facility in dallas
5527 2011-05-19 21:45:55 <phantomcircuit> MAHC, the bitcoin miners replace the entirety of the fight against counterfeit dollars
5528 2011-05-19 21:46:08 <phantomcircuit> MAHC, that in and of itself is an economically beneficial role they fill
5529 2011-05-19 21:46:14 vikarti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
5530 2011-05-19 21:46:22 <C4colo> what does that mean?
5531 2011-05-19 21:46:57 <jrmithdobbs> C4colo: colo4dallas is a colo provider, assumed you were affiliated.
5532 2011-05-19 21:46:58 <C4colo> the network will accept a fradulent transaction not based on a block if I let you host some rigs?
5533 2011-05-19 21:47:09 <C4colo> no, that's a common misunderstanding
5534 2011-05-19 21:47:11 <C4colo> colo = colorado
5535 2011-05-19 21:47:20 <C4colo> but my datacenter is in chicago
5536 2011-05-19 21:47:24 <XX01XX> HE WANTS TO BLOW UP NORAD
5537 2011-05-19 21:47:43 <XX01XX> Wait.. that's in Syoming, isn't it?
5538 2011-05-19 21:47:46 <XX01XX> Wyoming, too.
5539 2011-05-19 21:47:53 <jrmithdobbs> C4colo: anyways, you don't ever have to process any blocks to send transactions is how it wasn't correct
5540 2011-05-19 21:48:01 <C4colo> wrong
5541 2011-05-19 21:48:08 <C4colo> someone had to solve the block for my bitcoin to be valid
5542 2011-05-19 21:48:18 <C4colo> every transaction is based on some block in the past
5543 2011-05-19 21:48:32 <XX01XX> C4colo... but YOU don't have to hash anything to use that coin
5544 2011-05-19 21:48:32 <jrmithdobbs> C4colo: that wording is correct, your previous wording was not
5545 2011-05-19 21:48:34 <C4colo> so if I want to "invent" bitcoin I have to have solved a block
5546 2011-05-19 21:48:36 <C4colo> no question about it
5547 2011-05-19 21:48:46 <jrmithdobbs> the semantics matter in this case
5548 2011-05-19 21:48:47 <C4colo> if I received bitcoin from someone else that must have been generated in a block
5549 2011-05-19 21:48:53 <C4colo> that's what I'm telling you
5550 2011-05-19 21:48:54 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
5551 2011-05-19 21:48:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.34,"low":6.6071,"vol":23517,"buy":6.851,"sell":6.9,"last":6.8512}}
5552 2011-05-19 21:48:56 robthenob has joined
5553 2011-05-19 21:48:56 <trekdanne> Is there some way to add a peer by IP in the API?
5554 2011-05-19 21:48:58 <robthenob> nyone selling
5555 2011-05-19 21:49:01 guiklb has quit ()
5556 2011-05-19 21:49:04 <C4colo> I cannot INVENT bitcoin from nothing without a block that I solved as proof
5557 2011-05-19 21:49:19 <jrmithdobbs> s/INVENT/create/
5558 2011-05-19 21:49:20 <XX01XX> It would probably be better to require people to calculate some hashes to send a txn.
5559 2011-05-19 21:49:29 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: absolutely not.
5560 2011-05-19 21:49:39 <phantomcircuit> trekdanne, the rpc api?
5561 2011-05-19 21:49:48 <trekdanne> phantomcircuit, yes
5562 2011-05-19 21:49:53 <C4colo> C4colo> I can only "invent" bitcoin according to the protocol itself.  If I didn't solve a block and I just say "I'm sending you 5000000 BTC" the network will reject it because it is not based on the solving of a block
5563 2011-05-19 21:49:55 <XX01XX> jrmithdobbs... Why's that?
5564 2011-05-19 21:50:06 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: because it defeats the purpose
5565 2011-05-19 21:50:09 <C4colo> if I just invent 500000 BTC to send to someone it will not work
5566 2011-05-19 21:50:16 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: the point of bitcoin is not free money
5567 2011-05-19 21:50:27 Raccoon` has joined
5568 2011-05-19 21:50:28 <MAHC> gjs278: then we would just be replacing one fraudulent system qith another fraudulent system
5569 2011-05-19 21:50:34 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: it's a currency in and of itself that should be traded for commodities or other currencies just like any other
5570 2011-05-19 21:50:35 <C4colo> I have to reference one or more blocks in which those bitcoin were generated, 5000000 BTC would violate the protocol on two counts
5571 2011-05-19 21:50:36 <gjs278> gold isnt fraudelent
5572 2011-05-19 21:50:51 <C4colo> first it is more than the "free" number I can generate so it would be invalid to begin with
5573 2011-05-19 21:51:03 <phantomcircuit> trekdanne, no idea
5574 2011-05-19 21:51:03 <C4colo> and second, if I didn't solve a tranaction just invented a block the block itself would be rejected
5575 2011-05-19 21:51:10 <C4colo> because it does not fit into the transaction histor y
5576 2011-05-19 21:51:17 <MAHC> but the system created around it is
5577 2011-05-19 21:51:27 <XX01XX> jrmithdobbs... yes... unfortunately, you can mine without ever having to use the currency other than the TXN when you cash out
5578 2011-05-19 21:51:28 <jrmithdobbs> C4colo: you get it but your words are wrong.
5579 2011-05-19 21:51:37 <C4colo> no they were not
5580 2011-05-19 21:51:40 <jrmithdobbs> C4colo: that's all i'm saying.
5581 2011-05-19 21:51:43 <C4colo> I said I can't just invent 5000000 bitcoin
5582 2011-05-19 21:51:45 <XX01XX> Which is, I think, what most people are doing.
5583 2011-05-19 21:51:45 <C4colo> it dosen't work that way
5584 2011-05-19 21:51:51 <C4colo> C4colo> I can only "invent" bitcoin according to the protocol itself.  If I didn't solve a block and I just say "I'm sending you 5000000 BTC" the network will reject it because it is not based on the solving of a block
5585 2011-05-19 21:51:58 <C4colo> I said "invent" in the first place
5586 2011-05-19 21:52:07 <C4colo> I can't just invent a huge number of bitcoin and start sending them
5587 2011-05-19 21:52:13 <C4colo> it is not "free" for "anyone"
5588 2011-05-19 21:52:13 <jrmithdobbs> C4colo: but you can send 50000000 BTC without ever solving a block if they came into your possession through other txns
5589 2011-05-19 21:52:20 <jrmithdobbs> C4colo: that's where your wording is wrong.
5590 2011-05-19 21:52:21 jaminja has joined
5591 2011-05-19 21:52:22 <C4colo> I never claimed you could
5592 2011-05-19 21:52:25 <C4colo> I said you can't "invent" the m
5593 2011-05-19 21:52:41 <jrmithdobbs> w/e not going to argue about your english any more
5594 2011-05-19 21:52:49 <C4colo> you are the only one arguing
5595 2011-05-19 21:52:53 <C4colo> my words themselves said what I meant
5596 2011-05-19 21:52:57 <C4colo> you are arguing sometihng I never said
5597 2011-05-19 21:53:02 <C4colo> I'm correcting you
5598 2011-05-19 21:53:06 <C4colo> there is a difference
5599 2011-05-19 21:53:23 <C4colo> if you give me bitcoin and I send them on that is not "inventing" them
5600 2011-05-19 21:53:31 <XX01XX> jrmithdobbs... I'm not really getting your "ABSOLUTELY NOT", since it seems like the protocol subsisting on hashes required to enter txn would disincentivise mining for the sake fo FREE MONEY
5601 2011-05-19 21:53:49 <therap1st> uh oh asspie overload
5602 2011-05-19 21:53:58 <therap1st> of course FREE MONEY is what is driving bitcoin now
5603 2011-05-19 21:54:19 MartianW has joined
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5606 2011-05-19 21:54:25 <XX01XX> No... free money is what's driving the mining... bitcoin doesn't seem to be doing much.
5607 2011-05-19 21:54:28 <HaltingState> ArtForzZz, how many logic cells did it take you to fully pipeline the full double SHA256
5608 2011-05-19 21:54:32 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: and when the block reward drops to zero what then? why would you at that point put that type of burden on txn creators?
5609 2011-05-19 21:54:33 vikarti has joined
5610 2011-05-19 21:54:35 <MAHC> this is pretty frustrating
5611 2011-05-19 21:54:36 <Cryo> heh, aspie overload++
5612 2011-05-19 21:54:40 <MAHC> i don't get anything
5613 2011-05-19 21:54:45 <MAHC> wtf are hashes?
5614 2011-05-19 21:55:06 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: that's the part you're missing.
5615 2011-05-19 21:55:09 <XX01XX> jrsmith.... if it's popular enough at that point, people using the service would supply enough hashes to operste the protocol
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5617 2011-05-19 21:55:13 JunK-Y has joined
5618 2011-05-19 21:55:33 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: but you would still require processing by the txn originators? why?
5619 2011-05-19 21:55:55 <Cryo> to prevent double spending?
5620 2011-05-19 21:55:57 <XX01XX> jrmithdobbs... because those are the people using the service and supplying the hashes
5621 2011-05-19 21:56:02 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: what if i want to initiate an xfer from my phone? it needs to overheat and burn my pocket before sending a txn?
5622 2011-05-19 21:56:07 <ArtForzZz> HaltingState: it's double pipelined
5623 2011-05-19 21:56:10 <robthenob> anyone selling at 8usd per btc
5624 2011-05-19 21:56:22 <JunK-Y> robthenob: me
5625 2011-05-19 21:56:29 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: your idea is shortsighted and backwards
5626 2011-05-19 21:56:41 <HaltingState> ArtForzZz, what do you mean "double pipelined"?
5627 2011-05-19 21:56:46 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
5628 2011-05-19 21:56:49 <ArtForzZz> I have 2 pipleine stages per round
5629 2011-05-19 21:56:55 <XX01XX> jrmithdobbs... since the difficulty is set based on network performance requirements and not 800 thashes from people mining... it wouldn't melt your phone in your pocket.
5630 2011-05-19 21:57:20 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5631 2011-05-19 21:57:25 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: i think you don't get it, go reread the satoshi paper
5632 2011-05-19 21:57:27 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
5633 2011-05-19 21:57:37 <HaltingState> ArtForzZz, because of the registers before the addition in the SHA256 core?
5634 2011-05-19 21:57:42 <XX01XX> haha
5635 2011-05-19 21:57:44 <ArtForzZz> yep
5636 2011-05-19 21:57:52 <ArtForzZz> ~ 38k 4-LUTs, 152k FFs, 1200 32 bit adders
5637 2011-05-19 21:57:55 <HaltingState> how many blocks does that take?
5638 2011-05-19 21:58:08 <XX01XX> This is the way it was originally done... so we're always going to do it that way.
5639 2011-05-19 21:58:13 <XX01XX> Go read the paper.
5640 2011-05-19 21:58:30 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: no the explanation for the design is in the paper. your idea fundamentally breaks the design.
5641 2011-05-19 21:59:21 fimp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5642 2011-05-19 21:59:31 <HaltingState> ArtForzZz, what is the highest frequency I could get to with a surface mount transitor? 10-40 Mhz?
5643 2011-05-19 21:59:34 <XX01XX> jrmithdobbs... the idea in the paper is for bitcoin... not a general p2p transaction processing system.   Some of the design choices are economically motivated and make little sense.
5644 2011-05-19 21:59:43 <ArtForzZz> HaltingState: err.. what?
5645 2011-05-19 21:59:54 <Cryo> how many confirmations does a transaction... get/need?
5646 2011-05-19 21:59:56 MartianW has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
5647 2011-05-19 22:00:09 <ArtForzZz> several 100 MHz if you don't saturate it
5648 2011-05-19 22:00:16 <XX01XX> cryo... it will continue accumulating transactions forever... it need 6 to be "confirmed"
5649 2011-05-19 22:00:26 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: lets put your concept into the frame of a classic cc network to make you understand
5650 2011-05-19 22:00:59 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: what you're proposing would be like requiring every cc holder to estasblish, run, and verify correctness of their own fraud department before being able to make a purchase
5651 2011-05-19 22:01:11 <lupine_85> does the canonical client get blocks from multiple different peers simultaneously?
5652 2011-05-19 22:01:20 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: do you see why this is bad? noone would use ccs if that were the case.
5653 2011-05-19 22:01:22 <lupine_85> (when traversing the full block chain)
5654 2011-05-19 22:01:59 Kiba has joined
5655 2011-05-19 22:02:27 <XX01XX> jrmithdobbs... Actually it would be like requiring them to two one second of work towards that end before every purchase.
5656 2011-05-19 22:02:36 <jrmithdobbs> XX01XX: every traditional money xfer system puts the burden of work on the processors and the receivers, NOT the purchasers
5657 2011-05-19 22:02:48 <jrmithdobbs> otherwise you never get adoption.
5658 2011-05-19 22:02:49 fimp has joined
5659 2011-05-19 22:03:09 <XX01XX> jrmithdobbs... oh... no credit card has interest rates?
5660 2011-05-19 22:03:12 frespa has left ()
5661 2011-05-19 22:03:41 <XX01XX> No debit card has overdraft fees?   They make their money.
5662 2011-05-19 22:03:59 <luke-jr> XX01XX: only from fools
5663 2011-05-19 22:04:07 <luke-jr> my credit cards don't have interest
5664 2011-05-19 22:04:11 <luke-jr> because I pay them off every month
5665 2011-05-19 22:04:25 <luke-jr> and I refuse to sign the agreement allowing them to charge me overdraft fees
5666 2011-05-19 22:04:44 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
5667 2011-05-19 22:04:52 <diki> damn...still no go with mysql
5668 2011-05-19 22:04:59 <XX01XX> And I'm sure there would be people who would figure out ways to enter TXN without doing any hashing.
5669 2011-05-19 22:05:22 <XX01XX> In this brave new world
5670 2011-05-19 22:08:47 mosi has joined
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5672 2011-05-19 22:09:17 <MAHC> i don't really understand the mining system
5673 2011-05-19 22:09:25 <MAHC> what is it?
5674 2011-05-19 22:10:02 Beremaat has joined
5675 2011-05-19 22:10:10 <luke-jr> basically wasted calculations to make it harder to overthrow the network
5676 2011-05-19 22:10:37 <jrmithdobbs> MAHC: and a means of initially distributing currency
5677 2011-05-19 22:10:40 <jrmithdobbs> to bootstrap the system
5678 2011-05-19 22:11:00 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: that's just a side effect and incentive
5679 2011-05-19 22:11:03  has joined
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5681 2011-05-19 22:11:22 bombuzal has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
5682 2011-05-19 22:11:27 <MAHC> but wouldn't this creat a sort of elite in the future (those who were here the first)?
5683 2011-05-19 22:11:57 bombuzal has joined
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5685 2011-05-19 22:14:08 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|Sleep
5686 2011-05-19 22:14:48 <luke-jr> MAHC: yep
5687 2011-05-19 22:15:05 <luke-jr> MAHC: assuming bitcoin succeeds
5688 2011-05-19 22:15:14 <luke-jr> it's a bet, basically
5689 2011-05-19 22:15:27 <luke-jr> if bitcoin fails, we'll lose a lot
5690 2011-05-19 22:16:01 <MAHC> then what is the social interest in all this
5691 2011-05-19 22:16:22 Nicksasa has quit (Sleep!~Nick@178-117-211-223.access.telenet.be|Quit: Ik ga weg)
5692 2011-05-19 22:16:36 Nicksasa has joined
5693 2011-05-19 22:16:41 <MAHC> i mean the bitcoin system would end up being as unequal and corrupt as the actual one
5694 2011-05-19 22:16:44 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
5695 2011-05-19 22:17:57 <luke-jr> MAHC: bitcoin does not "solve" the reality of social class
5696 2011-05-19 22:18:16 <luke-jr> MAHC: it does solve the "problem" of unlimited inflation
5697 2011-05-19 22:18:24 Sedra- has joined
5698 2011-05-19 22:19:07 <MAHC> I see...
5699 2011-05-19 22:19:27 <MAHC> you say you would lose a lot
5700 2011-05-19 22:19:42 <MAHC> what have you invested in bitcoins?
5701 2011-05-19 22:19:59 <MAHC> in other words, how can you lose out of all this?
5702 2011-05-19 22:20:21 <MAHC> ps: how do you do the reply thing?
5703 2011-05-19 22:21:05 sanyo has joined
5704 2011-05-19 22:22:04 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
5705 2011-05-19 22:22:46 <gjs278> MAHC you can lose out by purchasing 5970s and not making enough money and then not finding anyone to sell them to
5706 2011-05-19 22:22:48 <gjs278> there you go
5707 2011-05-19 22:23:43 <MAHC> but don't they just generate by themeselves?
5708 2011-05-19 22:24:49 BlueMatt has joined
5709 2011-05-19 22:25:09 <gjs278> who is they
5710 2011-05-19 22:25:31 <psymin> I assume 'they' in that sentence are bitcoins?
5711 2011-05-19 22:25:49 C4colo has joined
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5716 2011-05-19 22:28:03 <MAHC> they is bitcoins
5717 2011-05-19 22:28:24 dvide_ has quit ()
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5720 2011-05-19 22:30:00 Beremaat is now known as Beremat
5721 2011-05-19 22:30:15 pyros1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5722 2011-05-19 22:31:05 Moonies has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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5724 2011-05-19 22:31:15 luke-jr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
5725 2011-05-19 22:33:26 <robthenob> anyone selling 8ppusd per btc
5726 2011-05-19 22:35:19 Alexees has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
5727 2011-05-19 22:35:56 <justmoon> robthenob, try in #bitcoin-otc !
5728 2011-05-19 22:36:03 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
5729 2011-05-19 22:36:04 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.34,"low":6.6071,"vol":24387,"buy":6.9989,"sell":7.0899,"last":7.02}}
5730 2011-05-19 22:36:05 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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5733 2011-05-19 22:40:02 <C4colo> would a client that always returns 0 for extranonce cause any adverse effects on the network?
5734 2011-05-19 22:40:10 locks has joined
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5736 2011-05-19 22:42:11 <robthenob> anyone selling at 7.5ppusd
5737 2011-05-19 22:42:28 <gjs278> are you buying coins
5738 2011-05-19 22:42:43 <robthenob> yes
5739 2011-05-19 22:42:45 <gjs278> ok
5740 2011-05-19 22:42:46 <robthenob> u selliong
5741 2011-05-19 22:42:49 <gjs278> yeah
5742 2011-05-19 22:43:57 pyros1 has joined
5743 2011-05-19 22:45:56 Optimo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
5744 2011-05-19 22:47:17 Optimo has joined
5745 2011-05-19 22:47:24 <Kiba> hmm
5746 2011-05-19 22:48:05 luke-jr has joined
5747 2011-05-19 22:57:24 Nesetalis has quit (Quit: <+shponka> how does one scissor with four people <+shponka> hypercube tribadism)
5748 2011-05-19 22:59:37 ahbritto has joined
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5750 2011-05-19 23:00:50 <luke-jr> jgarzik: ping
5751 2011-05-19 23:01:24 <erbs> luke-jr is awesome
5752 2011-05-19 23:01:34 <erbs> hes not a scammer
5753 2011-05-19 23:02:13 <[Tycho]> I saw a topic on forum that says otherwise.
5754 2011-05-19 23:02:31 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: full of bs, and posted by erbs interesting
5755 2011-05-19 23:02:37 annieL has joined
5756 2011-05-19 23:03:04 <[Tycho]> What was posted by erbs ?
5757 2011-05-19 23:03:09 agricocb has joined
5758 2011-05-19 23:03:14 <luke-jr> that forum post
5759 2011-05-19 23:03:41 <[Tycho]> Didn't noticed who was the author
5760 2011-05-19 23:03:48 <luke-jr> would be nice if he'd edit the initial post to say something else
5761 2011-05-19 23:04:24 <erbs> delete the post entirely
5762 2011-05-19 23:06:05 psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
5763 2011-05-19 23:06:52 <bombuzal> Goodnight <3
5764 2011-05-19 23:06:57 bombuzal has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5765 2011-05-19 23:07:23 <robthenob> anyone buying
5766 2011-05-19 23:08:33 blk2011 has joined
5767 2011-05-19 23:09:11 Nesetalis has joined
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5769 2011-05-19 23:11:11 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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5771 2011-05-19 23:15:07 Matt_ has joined
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5773 2011-05-19 23:15:26 <Matt_> i'm new to bitcoins and i have a quick question, i cannot find the answer on the wiki
5774 2011-05-19 23:15:33 <erbs> shoot
5775 2011-05-19 23:15:33 Matt_ is now known as Guest38043
5776 2011-05-19 23:15:48 <Guest38043> i've opened the client and started mining
5777 2011-05-19 23:16:01 <Guest38043> and it's been downloading blocks for hours now
5778 2011-05-19 23:16:04 orphan_node has joined
5779 2011-05-19 23:16:09 <Guest38043> i'm at 105,303 blocks
5780 2011-05-19 23:16:14 <erbs> many time to do