1 2011-05-22 00:00:04 <luke-jr> lupine_85: no, without the first select, we don't know the user_id
2 2011-05-22 00:00:16 <luke-jr> lupine_85: and obviously my pool doesn't need a db for authentication that never occurs
3 2011-05-22 00:00:32 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4 2011-05-22 00:00:47 <lupine_85> *shrug* so you have to do a select and an insert. you can keep an in-memory cache of username->user_id if that select limits performance
5 2011-05-22 00:00:53 <lupine_85> (it almost certainly won't)
6 2011-05-22 00:00:58 marf has joined
7 2011-05-22 00:01:13 <lupine_85> you're trying to speed up later selects. fourth normal form and sane queries at the way to do that
8 2011-05-22 00:01:32 <diki> no block yet...
9 2011-05-22 00:02:18 <luke-jr> Namegduf: yes, Spesmilo
10 2011-05-22 00:02:29 mtrlt_ has joined
11 2011-05-22 00:02:37 <lupine_85> whar I would personally do would be to queue up the database work in RAM so as to get the HTTP/RPC work over with as soon as possible
12 2011-05-22 00:02:47 <lupine_85> you can always have a background worker doing the actual inserts
13 2011-05-22 00:03:11 <luke-jr> they're the same
14 2011-05-22 00:03:19 <Namegduf> luke-jr: Looks great, thanks.
15 2011-05-22 00:03:23 * lupine_85 -> bed
16 2011-05-22 00:03:39 <luke-jr> getwork comes in -> insert share if any -> calculate shares and payout -> return new work
17 2011-05-22 00:04:19 Clipse has joined
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19 2011-05-22 00:04:53 <diki> still no block on testnet
20 2011-05-22 00:05:29 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no, even if you sync mainnet with localhost, it still takes hours
21 2011-05-22 00:07:00 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell jgarzik pong, 0.3.22 rc3 is being built, but I was having problems earlier...lets see how it goes this time...
22 2011-05-22 00:07:00 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
23 2011-05-22 00:07:00 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Quit: bitcoinbulletin)
24 2011-05-22 00:07:32 has joined
25 2011-05-22 00:08:03 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: then something is busted obviously.
26 2011-05-22 00:08:15 bluegrass has joined
27 2011-05-22 00:08:21 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: when I noted it here, I was told it was an artificial delay
28 2011-05-22 00:08:49 <luke-jr> some kind of rate limiting
29 2011-05-22 00:09:11 <gmaxwell> I synced one somewhat recently in only ~15-20 minutes.. but that might have been on older software.
30 2011-05-22 00:09:43 <luke-jr> I mean from 0
31 2011-05-22 00:09:45 theorb has joined
32 2011-05-22 00:09:52 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
33 2011-05-22 00:09:59 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
34 2011-05-22 00:10:04 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
35 2011-05-22 00:11:55 marf has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
36 2011-05-22 00:14:13 <luke-jr> I think I might just have to do some kind of pushpool/bitcoind merge/rewrite :/
37 2011-05-22 00:15:40 <diki> 15 mins and still no block
38 2011-05-22 00:15:47 <diki> is something wrong with this testnet??
39 2011-05-22 00:15:58 <tasha3> or just slow?
40 2011-05-22 00:16:13 <diki> 270 mhash/s for diff 14 doesnt seem slow to me
41 2011-05-22 00:16:17 <BlueMatt> bitcoin sucks at initial download...period
42 2011-05-22 00:16:18 <BlueMatt> it just does
43 2011-05-22 00:16:31 <tasha3> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/q/getblockcount
44 2011-05-22 00:16:39 AStove has quit ()
45 2011-05-22 00:16:43 bitcoinbulletin has joined
46 2011-05-22 00:17:05 <Namegduf> luke-jr: It would be helpful to note required parts of PySide
47 2011-05-22 00:17:14 mtrlt has joined
48 2011-05-22 00:17:17 <Namegduf> PySide has a lot of components and some of their dependencies are large, like Phonon
49 2011-05-22 00:18:12 <luke-jr> never seen an OS with modular PySide
50 2011-05-22 00:18:27 <Namegduf> Qt is modular
51 2011-05-22 00:18:35 <Namegduf> So bindings to it are, as well.
52 2011-05-22 00:19:06 <Namegduf> Makes sense, though.
53 2011-05-22 00:19:10 <luke-jr> not in any OS I've seen
54 2011-05-22 00:19:13 <Namegduf> On Windows they'll just give it out as one huge blob
55 2011-05-22 00:19:27 <Namegduf> Probably including Phonon along with, I guess.
56 2011-05-22 00:19:28 <luke-jr> on Gentoo and Debian as well
57 2011-05-22 00:19:32 <Namegduf> Not on Debian.
58 2011-05-22 00:19:35 mtrlt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
59 2011-05-22 00:20:04 <Namegduf> On Debian the python-pyside metapackage references it all, but is huge- things more normally depend on python-pyside.qtcode, .qtgui, etc
60 2011-05-22 00:20:21 tasha3 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
61 2011-05-22 00:20:45 <Namegduf> There's .phonon, .qtsql, .qtwebkit... a lot of fairly unrelated stuff.
62 2011-05-22 00:20:59 <Namegduf> *.qtcore
63 2011-05-22 00:21:22 gat3way has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
64 2011-05-22 00:21:40 <Namegduf> Where is it expecting the jsonrpc package to come from?
65 2011-05-22 00:22:10 m00p has joined
66 2011-05-22 00:22:45 * Namegduf doesn't have it
67 2011-05-22 00:23:31 gat3way has joined
68 2011-05-22 00:26:36 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
69 2011-05-22 00:26:39 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125621 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1386 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 19 hours, 14 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 345728.30959289
70 2011-05-22 00:26:43 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
71 2011-05-22 00:26:43 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.5199,"low":5.5772,"vol":31491,"buy":6.1404,"sell":6.2199,"last":6.1403}}
72 2011-05-22 00:27:09 sta-hi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
73 2011-05-22 00:27:43 <luke-jr> Namegduf: make local
74 2011-05-22 00:27:56 <Namegduf> Ah, I see.
75 2011-05-22 00:28:02 <luke-jr> Namegduf: and maybe make sure you followed the other directions
76 2011-05-22 00:28:03 <luke-jr> <.<
77 2011-05-22 00:28:04 gat3way has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
78 2011-05-22 00:31:18 gjs278 has joined
79 2011-05-22 00:31:56 gat3way has joined
80 2011-05-22 00:32:16 Incitatus has joined
81 2011-05-22 00:32:28 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
82 2011-05-22 00:33:24 <BlueMatt> ADHJ1=qwer
83 2011-05-22 00:33:28 <luke-jr> NO
84 2011-05-22 00:33:50 <BlueMatt> fuck
85 2011-05-22 00:34:01 <BlueMatt> sorry
86 2011-05-22 00:35:54 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: w00t
87 2011-05-22 00:38:43 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
88 2011-05-22 00:39:34 stuhood has joined
89 2011-05-22 00:39:58 <diki> somehow i managed to find three blocks on testnet
90 2011-05-22 00:40:10 <BlueMatt> thats not _that_ hard
91 2011-05-22 00:40:10 <diki> however...there was no indication by pushpoold
92 2011-05-22 00:41:15 Clipse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
93 2011-05-22 00:41:47 <diki> so i am back at 0 progress....
94 2011-05-22 00:42:14 <diki> i don't know how to make pushpoold report it found a block.
95 2011-05-22 00:42:31 <stuhood> are there any known issues with tried address logging? i'm seeing a lot of `trying connection lastseen=-0.9hrs lasttry=-362784.6hrs`
96 2011-05-22 00:42:46 <stuhood> verbatim (no address displayed)
97 2011-05-22 00:42:49 <diki> i imagine adding a query to say the block was found after applog(LOG_INFO, "PROOF-OF-WORK found");
98 2011-05-22 00:43:08 <BlueMatt> yea, so many nodes do not accept incomming that connections starting really sucks
99 2011-05-22 00:43:12 <BlueMatt> it can be soooo slow
100 2011-05-22 00:43:20 <stuhood> it's glacial today
101 2011-05-22 00:43:30 <stuhood> which got me trying to look into this
102 2011-05-22 00:43:39 <BlueMatt> we need some really fancy dnsseed server, jgarzik ;)
103 2011-05-22 00:43:56 <stuhood> honestly, the fact that every node that joins IRC makes it into the database doesn't seem wise
104 2011-05-22 00:44:05 gat3way has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
105 2011-05-22 00:44:07 <stuhood> or am i misunderstanding that
106 2011-05-22 00:44:08 <BlueMatt> why not?
107 2011-05-22 00:44:29 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: nodes that don't listen aren't all that useful.
108 2011-05-22 00:44:36 <stuhood> they're wasted space until they prove to be useful, right?
109 2011-05-22 00:44:48 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yep, hence why connections are so slow
110 2011-05-22 00:45:01 <BlueMatt> stuhood: the problem is bootstrapping
111 2011-05-22 00:45:16 <BlueMatt> you cant tell if you are accepting incoming connections until you get one
112 2011-05-22 00:45:23 <BlueMatt> but you cant get one if no one is trying
113 2011-05-22 00:46:19 <stuhood> sure, but adding untrustworthy addresses to the database seems counterproductive
114 2011-05-22 00:46:30 <BlueMatt> huh?
115 2011-05-22 00:46:46 <BlueMatt> no, you are adding other known nodes to the database to try to find one that works
116 2011-05-22 00:47:07 <BlueMatt> remember every node is untrustworthy
117 2011-05-22 00:47:12 <stuhood> right
118 2011-05-22 00:47:18 <stuhood> ok, i'll keep looking at the code
119 2011-05-22 00:47:27 <stuhood> i just see tons of AddAddress calls
120 2011-05-22 00:47:43 <BlueMatt> I dont think you are misunderstanding
121 2011-05-22 00:47:52 <BlueMatt> I just dont think there is much of a better way in this case
122 2011-05-22 00:48:46 <stuhood> what about walking through the list of nodes fetched from IRC, and only persisting them in the database if you successfully connect?
123 2011-05-22 00:49:27 sacarlson has joined
124 2011-05-22 00:49:30 <BlueMatt> well the client does connect first to addresses it has connected to
125 2011-05-22 00:49:37 Cusipzzz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
126 2011-05-22 00:49:42 <stuhood> hm, ok
127 2011-05-22 00:49:53 <BlueMatt> there really isnt much of a reason not to store them
128 2011-05-22 00:49:55 <BlueMatt> I mean, why not
129 2011-05-22 00:49:58 <stuhood> there is a scoring function of some kind, to prefer certain nodes?
130 2011-05-22 00:50:08 Marc__ has joined
131 2011-05-22 00:50:14 <BlueMatt> yea, dont remember exactly where...somewhere in net.cpp
132 2011-05-22 00:50:19 <BlueMatt> look for the 24h delay
133 2011-05-22 00:50:30 mic123 has joined
134 2011-05-22 00:50:44 <stuhood> k cool. if that code is doing a good job prioritizing the list of nodes, then it shouldn't be a problem
135 2011-05-22 00:51:16 <BlueMatt> I haven't spent that much time with networking code, but my cursory glances seem to indicate reasonableness ;)
136 2011-05-22 00:51:18 <stuhood> just trying to figure out why my local node is having so much trouble starting today, since it's been fully bootstrapped before
137 2011-05-22 00:51:30 <BlueMatt> oh, well that is weird
138 2011-05-22 00:51:39 <BlueMatt> though maybe it got connected to nodes which are now down...
139 2011-05-22 00:52:21 <BlueMatt> generally the whole connection stuff needs improved
140 2011-05-22 00:53:20 <stuhood> agreed
141 2011-05-22 00:53:22 <stuhood> thanks for the help
142 2011-05-22 00:53:24 <BlueMatt> my idea: better dns seeds...I see no reason why dnsseeds cant scan the whole list of nodes it can find nodes that accept incoming connections and return a chunk of those
143 2011-05-22 00:53:33 <jrmithdobbs> ya the net code needs a bit of rework
144 2011-05-22 00:53:35 <BlueMatt> just needs implementing
145 2011-05-22 00:53:42 <BlueMatt> yes it does
146 2011-05-22 00:53:47 <jrmithdobbs> it's not bad just has some weird corner cases
147 2011-05-22 00:53:55 <jrmithdobbs> (like what you're running into)
148 2011-05-22 00:54:14 gat3way has joined
149 2011-05-22 00:54:18 <BlueMatt> just needs general analysis...no one has really touched it since satoshi
150 2011-05-22 00:55:12 <stuhood> honestly, it seems like the hardcoded seed nodes should be sufficient to bootstrap anybody, assuming nodes that have already been bootstrapped avoid connecting to those nodes directly
151 2011-05-22 00:55:27 Clipse has joined
152 2011-05-22 00:55:34 <BlueMatt> I agree, but the whole bitcoin community would freak out about that ;)
153 2011-05-22 00:55:45 <BlueMatt> any remote form of centralization freaks them out
154 2011-05-22 00:55:54 <jrmithdobbs> they freak out pretty easy
155 2011-05-22 00:55:55 bluegrass has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
156 2011-05-22 00:55:55 <stuhood> touche =)
157 2011-05-22 00:56:12 <jrmithdobbs> esp their paranoia about the binaries is particularly funny
158 2011-05-22 00:56:22 <jrmithdobbs> because if they really cared they'd just build it themselves ;P
159 2011-05-22 00:56:23 <BlueMatt> well that I dont really blame them for
160 2011-05-22 00:56:39 <BlueMatt> but yea, building yourself is pretty easy
161 2011-05-22 00:56:56 <jrmithdobbs> only kind-of a bitch on windows and os x but not really then even
162 2011-05-22 00:57:33 <BlueMatt> I think at this point, Ive gotten it to be easier to xcompile for win32 from linux than to compile on win32
163 2011-05-22 00:57:35 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i understand it, just saying if they really cared as much as they say they do the people that whine would build it themselves, heh
164 2011-05-22 00:57:47 percymate has quit (Quit: Page closed)
165 2011-05-22 00:58:26 <BlueMatt> yea, though the gitian stuff right now means generating a binary which is 100% identical with the releases is as easy as copy/pasting some commands from a script
166 2011-05-22 00:58:40 <jrmithdobbs> also: proof bitcoin is of the devil, we're still here
167 2011-05-22 00:58:48 <jrmithdobbs> (lol rapture lol)
168 2011-05-22 00:58:57 <BlueMatt> well that might be because Im atheist but either way...
169 2011-05-22 00:59:11 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: aka evil
170 2011-05-22 00:59:16 * jrmithdobbs /troll
171 2011-05-22 00:59:26 <BlueMatt> yep Im the son of satan
172 2011-05-22 00:59:31 <BlueMatt> in case you hadnt noticed ;)
173 2011-05-22 00:59:36 <jrmithdobbs> wait satan or santa
174 2011-05-22 00:59:41 <jrmithdobbs> either way, p cool
175 2011-05-22 00:59:56 <BlueMatt> a bit of both, little known fact: they are both gay ;)
176 2011-05-22 01:00:07 <jrmithdobbs> not surprised
177 2011-05-22 01:00:08 eps1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
178 2011-05-22 01:01:42 <stuhood> is there a way to purge the database containing addresses?
179 2011-05-22 01:01:54 <jrmithdobbs> sure, rm wallet.dat
180 2011-05-22 01:01:54 <BlueMatt> remove addr.dat in your bitcoin folder
181 2011-05-22 01:01:56 <BlueMatt> ~/.bitcoin
182 2011-05-22 01:02:04 <jrmithdobbs> err addr.dat, ya my bad
183 2011-05-22 01:02:06 <BlueMatt> or %AppData%/Bitcoin
184 2011-05-22 01:02:06 <Marc__> Suggestion: a "plain Engilsh" language version of the wiki. New users of this currency need to understand the system fully, but, for example, the Proof of Work article is a headache for me to understand from the get-go
185 2011-05-22 01:02:14 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: lol, stop trolling ;)
186 2011-05-22 01:02:21 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: that was actually an accident, lol
187 2011-05-22 01:02:26 <BlueMatt> bs
188 2011-05-22 01:02:51 <stuhood> haha
189 2011-05-22 01:02:55 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
190 2011-05-22 01:03:11 <BlueMatt> Marc__: not a bad idea, care to write it?
191 2011-05-22 01:03:26 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: no if i was trolling i would have said: rm -rf ~ / .bitcoin/wallet.dat
192 2011-05-22 01:03:38 <BlueMatt> well, that too
193 2011-05-22 01:03:46 <jrmithdobbs> spaces important ;P
194 2011-05-22 01:03:50 <lianj> jrmithdobbs: hehe
195 2011-05-22 01:04:36 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
196 2011-05-22 01:05:25 <Marc__> BlueMatt: I'm trying to understand the currency system before I buy in (so to speak), but that is something that I would be interested in helping with, yes
197 2011-05-22 01:06:06 <jrmithdobbs> Marc__: ya the weusecoins guy need to do another user-oriented instead of merchant/tech-oriented video imho
198 2011-05-22 01:06:11 <BlueMatt> Marc__: cool, maybe try to get a "language translation" to "simple"
199 2011-05-22 01:06:15 <BlueMatt> like simple.wikipedia.org
200 2011-05-22 01:06:20 vorlov has joined
201 2011-05-22 01:06:40 <sneak> reading simple english wikipedia articles on complex topics always makes me irlol
202 2011-05-22 01:07:00 <sneak> "okay timmy, now sexual assault is when bad people do bad things to good people in ways that make them feel sad for a long time afterward"
203 2011-05-22 01:07:11 <jrmithdobbs> lol link
204 2011-05-22 01:07:24 <pfifo> jgarzik, are you around?
205 2011-05-22 01:07:32 * jrmithdobbs looks for simple translations of ecdsa article
206 2011-05-22 01:07:33 <BlueMatt> lol yea
207 2011-05-22 01:07:51 <sneak> i wish there was a simple german wikipedia
208 2011-05-22 01:08:03 <stuhood> after purging my address database, i was able to make 2 connections within 5 minutes of startup, so there is definitely something inefficient going on
209 2011-05-22 01:08:10 <sneak> but i am a native english speaker so it's not really necessary
210 2011-05-22 01:08:31 <jrmithdobbs> aww, doesn't look like any of the complex crypto articles have been translated
211 2011-05-22 01:08:32 <stuhood> (also, used -noric)
212 2011-05-22 01:08:33 <sneak> simple english i think is primarily aimed at being a sort of "default second language" option for most of the world
213 2011-05-22 01:08:47 <sneak> http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Encryption_Standard
214 2011-05-22 01:08:56 <sneak> that is not simple at all
215 2011-05-22 01:09:09 <BlueMatt> stuhood: my guess: the list of nodes which were prioritized because it has had connections to them in the past have now gone offline
216 2011-05-22 01:09:14 <BlueMatt> still...needs rework
217 2011-05-22 01:09:31 <jrmithdobbs> ya that'd be my guess
218 2011-05-22 01:09:38 <stuhood> cool, yea⦠i'll see if i can find that address prioritization code
219 2011-05-22 01:09:47 <jrmithdobbs> stuhood: alternative workaround, patch MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS to like 250 and reconnect, lol
220 2011-05-22 01:10:04 <jrmithdobbs> (semi-serious)
221 2011-05-22 01:10:06 <stuhood> jrmithdobbs: the connections are opened by a single thread, right?
222 2011-05-22 01:10:10 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: that seems like a bad idea...
223 2011-05-22 01:10:21 <BlueMatt> stuhood: IIRC, yes
224 2011-05-22 01:11:07 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: how i fixed my broken node, once it found some good connections and prioritized them bounced it back to the one with the normal 8
225 2011-05-22 01:11:09 <stuhood> so if the timeout is more than a few seconds, and the prioritization isn't being awesome, you could have to wait many many minutes to make your first valid connection
226 2011-05-22 01:11:23 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: bitcoind was actually quite responsive running with 250 outbound connections though
227 2011-05-22 01:11:36 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: that box is also on a 100mbit pipe tho
228 2011-05-22 01:11:41 mic123 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
229 2011-05-22 01:11:42 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: true, but work should probably be done to fix stuff instead of patching...
230 2011-05-22 01:11:45 <jrmithdobbs> so it's not like bitcoin is ever going to saturate it's upstream
231 2011-05-22 01:11:45 wolfspraul has joined
232 2011-05-22 01:12:09 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i was trying to make a xfer and wanted it fixed right then, i've still not got around to looking at the net.cpp code
233 2011-05-22 01:12:23 <jrmithdobbs> the little i've looked at is overly complex
234 2011-05-22 01:12:28 <BlueMatt> my opinion: fix it in dnsseed stuff
235 2011-05-22 01:12:45 <jrmithdobbs> ya dnsseed needs to stop handing out dead nodes
236 2011-05-22 01:12:50 BurningToad1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
237 2011-05-22 01:12:55 <BlueMatt> it doesnt currently
238 2011-05-22 01:13:04 <BlueMatt> currently its just effectively a list of static nodes
239 2011-05-22 01:13:09 <jrmithdobbs> ah
240 2011-05-22 01:13:10 <BlueMatt> and is off by default
241 2011-05-22 01:13:42 lulzplzk1hx has joined
242 2011-05-22 01:15:02 DukeOfURL has joined
243 2011-05-22 01:16:21 <Marc__> jrmithdobbs: What a great site/video, however the educated consumer I think will be looking to learn about the currency from an understandably skeptical perspective. IMO there needs to be more disclosure about who founded the project too, but I really need to understand the technicalities (so to speak) specifically, even more so than I understand my own country's banking system because BTC is not already universally accepted
244 2011-05-22 01:16:46 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
245 2011-05-22 01:17:18 <BlueMatt> Marc__: sadly, satoshi is pretty much gone...he isnt much of a people person and will probably never really come back to the project more than he is now
246 2011-05-22 01:17:23 <BlueMatt> which is almost none
247 2011-05-22 01:18:28 <BlueMatt> but, yea the educated consumer should be skeptical of bitcoin and there should be more resources for them
248 2011-05-22 01:18:29 <Marc__> sneak: You're right, but I think some of the "complex" articles on the BTC wiki can still be "simplified" in way that they only give enough detail to allow the reader to understand that aspect of the system, and to use an alaogy, if the reader wanted to understand more deeply, he or she could read the regular English version for full detail... almost like a fact check. Sounds strange, but I think that might be important to wider c
249 2011-05-22 01:18:30 eao has joined
250 2011-05-22 01:19:13 <jrmithdobbs> Marc__: the problem is noone who is writing anything about bitcoin is qualified to write that
251 2011-05-22 01:19:37 <jrmithdobbs> Marc__: imho the satoshi paper is what you're looking for, but that is obviously not a good answer because it is most definitely not "simple english"
252 2011-05-22 01:19:45 <Marc__> What do you mean by qualified?
253 2011-05-22 01:20:02 <jrmithdobbs> Marc__: the people who have the knowledge of how it works don't understand how to simplify the explanations further
254 2011-05-22 01:20:05 <jrmithdobbs> make sense?
255 2011-05-22 01:20:05 <sneak> i spent an hour explaining bitcoin to my dad on the phone today
256 2011-05-22 01:20:11 <sneak> i should have recorded it and edited it
257 2011-05-22 01:20:14 <phantomcircuit> Marc__, they dont even try to learn how it works... like at all...
258 2011-05-22 01:20:17 <BlueMatt> dont think that they dont have the skill, but not the time
259 2011-05-22 01:20:31 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i'd say a mixture of both
260 2011-05-22 01:20:31 <Marc__> jrmithdobbs: Yes, I figured that was what you meant, which is why I'm here in this chat ;)
261 2011-05-22 01:20:49 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: I disagree, I spend half my time explaining bitcoin to noobs on here and #bitcoin ;)
262 2011-05-22 01:21:01 <Namegduf> sneak: Then autotuned it
263 2011-05-22 01:21:02 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: technical people tend to have this problem ... if you don't mind me speaking in generalizations
264 2011-05-22 01:21:11 <Marc__> phantomcircuit: Who are you referring to with the "they"?
265 2011-05-22 01:21:22 <BlueMatt> no, by all means, though I think gavin can tend to be really good at that
266 2011-05-22 01:21:48 <BlueMatt> most technical people have this problem, but a few really smart ones dont
267 2011-05-22 01:21:56 <BlueMatt> imho gavin is one of them
268 2011-05-22 01:22:02 <Marc__> jrmithdobbs: What is the satoshi paper?
269 2011-05-22 01:22:07 Astriks has quit (Quit: Astriks)
270 2011-05-22 01:22:18 <BlueMatt> Marc__: the original design paper of bitcoin written by the founder (satoshi)
271 2011-05-22 01:22:22 <jrmithdobbs> Marc__: http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
272 2011-05-22 01:22:58 <Marc__> Wonderful! Look forward to reading this
273 2011-05-22 01:23:33 <Marc__> But that is part of the public education thing... I mean that paper should be somewhat more "prominent"
274 2011-05-22 01:23:53 <jrmithdobbs> Marc__: don't get your hopes up, it's very technical and probably not what you're after, but still a good read if you really want to understand things
275 2011-05-22 01:23:53 <BlueMatt> Marc__: if you want a good intro from a technical perspective...gavin has done a couple really good podcasts, and security now has one
276 2011-05-22 01:24:07 <BlueMatt> and a couple of gavin's arent quite as technical
277 2011-05-22 01:24:19 <BlueMatt> IMHO understandable by the "average joe"
278 2011-05-22 01:24:24 <jrmithdobbs> Marc__: it's linked off bitcoin.org under the project section
279 2011-05-22 01:24:48 <jrmithdobbs> Marc__: on the front page
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282 2011-05-22 01:25:17 <Marc__> jrmthdobbs: Oh right, I was using that other site as my go-to. The weusebitcoins or whatever, and that one wasn't wholly what I was after, so I started to delve into the wiki
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285 2011-05-22 01:25:46 <Marc__> BlueMatt: Thanks, I'll look into those
286 2011-05-22 01:26:20 <jrmithdobbs> ya gavin's talks are pretty good
287 2011-05-22 01:27:56 <Marc__> I think I might try to get an "Plain English" language established, and maybe work my way from the basic stuff out. The objectives of the plain English version of the BTC wiki wouldn't necessarily have to be the same as those of Wikipedia's plain English version
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290 2011-05-22 01:29:27 <Marc__> Anyway, this is all very interesting stuff. Thank you to you guys for interacting with me. I need to get away for a while
291 2011-05-22 01:29:43 Marc__ has quit (Quit: all the best)
292 2011-05-22 01:32:45 <stuhood> heh, from the debug output, the client works pretty hard to collect addresses
293 2011-05-22 01:34:41 <jrmithdobbs> ya, too hard
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295 2011-05-22 01:37:59 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
296 2011-05-22 01:38:00 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.5199,"low":5.6001,"vol":32388,"buy":6.08,"sell":6.0999,"last":6.08}}
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300 2011-05-22 01:40:06 <diki> i hope i don't increase the diff much on testnet
301 2011-05-22 01:40:12 <diki> i am still not finished...
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304 2011-05-22 01:42:02 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, lots of connections is important for avoiding opportunistic sybil attacks, indeed the current system isn't sufficient
305 2011-05-22 01:42:27 <C4colo> where can you find the current computational power of bitcoin right now?
306 2011-05-22 01:42:49 <diki> bitcoincharts.com
307 2011-05-22 01:43:13 <C4colo> haha
308 2011-05-22 01:43:17 <C4colo> never noticed it up there
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312 2011-05-22 01:44:34 <stuhood> phantomcircuit: quality connections, yes⦠"lots" of connections, no ?
313 2011-05-22 01:44:38 <C4colo> 2,703 Gh/s
314 2011-05-22 01:45:12 <C4colo> is that binary or decimal units?
315 2011-05-22 01:45:47 <C4colo> is 1 Th/s = 1024 Gh/s or 1000 Gh/s?
316 2011-05-22 01:46:09 <C4colo> and if 1024 should it not be Gih/s?
317 2011-05-22 01:46:23 <phantomcircuit> stuhood, yes but how do you identify which connections are quality? you cant so you need to play a game of peer hopping
318 2011-05-22 01:46:33 <stuhood> phantomcircuit: something like kademlia would help
319 2011-05-22 01:46:44 <stuhood> sorry, not all of kademlia
320 2011-05-22 01:46:48 <phantomcircuit> has it's own issues
321 2011-05-22 01:46:51 <stuhood> just the XOR metric for distance
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324 2011-05-22 01:47:29 <nanotube> C4colo: decimal
325 2011-05-22 01:47:37 <C4colo> I could put 3% of the complete computational power of the entire network in one rack worth of space
326 2011-05-22 01:47:44 <C4colo> I haven't calculated how much it would cost though
327 2011-05-22 01:48:24 <C4colo> or if I could find a source for that many 5970x2's
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335 2011-05-22 01:56:50 <diki> i think i am actually understanding how pushpool works...
336 2011-05-22 01:57:33 mologie_ is now known as mologie
337 2011-05-22 01:57:43 <diki> however i am going to change just a bit how submitting the share works
338 2011-05-22 01:57:48 <diki> for easing me of course :)
339 2011-05-22 01:58:27 noagendamarket has joined
340 2011-05-22 02:00:56 <diki> Is it possible to do return 2 or return 3?
341 2011-05-22 02:01:09 <diki> as i'd like to be able to get more accurate data
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349 2011-05-22 02:07:27 <diki> luke you there?
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351 2011-05-22 02:07:34 <stuhood> phantomcircuit: actually, the client only connects to nodes that don't share the first 2 octets of the ip address
352 2011-05-22 02:07:58 <phantomcircuit> stuhood, so what? getting a ton of ip's is (relatively) trivial
353 2011-05-22 02:08:59 <stuhood> phantomcircuit: yes. i'm just wondering how much of an improvement the xor metric would even be over the existing approach
354 2011-05-22 02:10:06 <phantomcircuit> not much
355 2011-05-22 02:10:33 <stuhood> if an attacker can get ip addresses that are distributed throughout the address space, there isn't much you can do
356 2011-05-22 02:10:34 <phantomcircuit> a combination of "hot" peers and known good ndoes is necessary
357 2011-05-22 02:10:50 <stuhood> yea
358 2011-05-22 02:10:56 <phantomcircuit> stuhood, actually you can make a sybil attack pretty much impossible
359 2011-05-22 02:11:01 <phantomcircuit> think about it
360 2011-05-22 02:11:11 <phantomcircuit> if you get a block/transaction anytime within a 10 minute window you're fine
361 2011-05-22 02:11:14 <stuhood> well, that's the point of proof of work
362 2011-05-22 02:11:38 <phantomcircuit> controlling enough of the network to keep a peer from finding out something for 10 minutes when it's hopping every 30 seconds would be quite an achievement
363 2011-05-22 02:11:59 <stuhood> sorry, what's the hopping? still learning about the protocol
364 2011-05-22 02:12:09 <phantomcircuit> no client actually does this yet
365 2011-05-22 02:12:21 <phantomcircuit> the current network could have a dedicated attacker run a sybil attack
366 2011-05-22 02:12:29 <phantomcircuit> however that would cost more than it would be worth currently
367 2011-05-22 02:12:32 <phantomcircuit> so i doubt anybody will
368 2011-05-22 02:13:19 <stuhood> improving the distance metric and the number of connections might be a good idea then
369 2011-05-22 02:13:44 <phantomcircuit> not to mention removing the connection limit counts *cough*
370 2011-05-22 02:13:44 <stuhood> connect to at least 32 nodes at varying distances
371 2011-05-22 02:13:48 <stuhood> yea
372 2011-05-22 02:14:57 <XX01XX> How are you calculating distance?
373 2011-05-22 02:15:13 <stuhood> XX01XX: was thinking of kademlia's xor distance
374 2011-05-22 02:15:40 <stuhood> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kademlia#Accelerated_lookups
375 2011-05-22 02:20:01 <gmaxwell> to bad there is such as big cpu/gpu gap for the sha512 pow... you could have nodes generate expensive ID's used to peering decisions, but attackers with GPUs could generate lots of any level of pow that would be acceptable for CPUs.
376 2011-05-22 02:21:06 <stuhood> yea...
377 2011-05-22 02:21:35 <diki> zomg...i never knew pushpool was so complicated...
378 2011-05-22 02:21:42 <diki> *complex
379 2011-05-22 02:21:44 Moonies has joined
380 2011-05-22 02:22:00 <diki> One function gets called in another function, which get's called in another function....
381 2011-05-22 02:22:06 <diki> and it keeps going and going
382 2011-05-22 02:22:13 <diki> until we reach main
383 2011-05-22 02:22:24 <XX01XX> Yo dawg...
384 2011-05-22 02:22:26 <diki> zomg, how does jgarzik follow all that
385 2011-05-22 02:23:06 <gmaxwell> "Man, you'd have to be a kernel developer or something to follow that shit"
386 2011-05-22 02:23:18 <lfm> um, I think that would be normal software
387 2011-05-22 02:23:28 <gmaxwell> diki: I didn't think it was that complicated. Not well commented however.
388 2011-05-22 02:23:43 <ArtForz> functions calling functions, the horror!
389 2011-05-22 02:23:51 <gmaxwell> And it does some dumb shit, like blocking getworks if the database takes a long time.
390 2011-05-22 02:24:30 <gmaxwell> sure as hell beats writing your own though.
391 2011-05-22 02:24:59 <diki> Inside main there is a function which calls another function, which in return calls another function and etc going over to submit_work...
392 2011-05-22 02:25:05 <diki> that was like 10 functions or so
393 2011-05-22 02:26:04 <ArtForz> way too simple
394 2011-05-22 02:26:37 <diki> way too complex
395 2011-05-22 02:26:41 <ArtForz> needs at least some recursion, a few calls to functions living in headers and a few complex macros
396 2011-05-22 02:27:00 <XX01XX> diki... can make things easier to maintain once you understand it
397 2011-05-22 02:27:04 <ArtForz> also, needs more cowbell.
398 2011-05-22 02:27:06 <lfm> how bout some libs with callbacks thrown in
399 2011-05-22 02:27:07 <gmaxwell> yea, a linked list of structs of function pointers.
400 2011-05-22 02:27:10 <diki> i am not insulting jgarzik here, i am in fact praising him
401 2011-05-22 02:27:23 <diki> following all that...you have to be a monster
402 2011-05-22 02:27:43 <lfm> you may call us monsters inc
403 2011-05-22 02:28:03 ezl has joined
404 2011-05-22 02:29:07 <gmaxwell> "and error handling with longjump OH MY GOD"
405 2011-05-22 02:29:37 <JFK911> at least i know what longjump is
406 2011-05-22 02:29:42 <JFK911> a real troll would have used setjmp
407 2011-05-22 02:29:50 <JFK911> death to setjmp
408 2011-05-22 02:30:00 <Namegduf> JFK911: Use of one implies the other
409 2011-05-22 02:30:05 <Namegduf> They're a pair.
410 2011-05-22 02:30:08 <JFK911> GAH
411 2011-05-22 02:30:09 <JFK911> death
412 2011-05-22 02:30:10 <JFK911> die
413 2011-05-22 02:30:11 <diki> oh man, i lost track of time that it's actually 5 am here
414 2011-05-22 02:30:39 <ArtForz> error... handling... ?
415 2011-05-22 02:30:49 <lfm> you didnt lose track, the software has a portal. didnt you see it?
416 2011-05-22 02:30:59 <gmaxwell> JFK911: how about error handling by clobbering the return address?
417 2011-05-22 02:31:01 <ArtForz> what, segfault not good enough for you?
418 2011-05-22 02:31:19 <JFK911> OMG
419 2011-05-22 02:31:23 <gmaxwell> ArtForz: need a handler to rm -rf / on error.
420 2011-05-22 02:31:28 <JFK911> manually fiddling with the stack is BANNED
421 2011-05-22 02:31:33 <Namegduf> gmaxwell: That's awesome.
422 2011-05-22 02:31:38 <gmaxwell> JFK911: I've actually seen propritary software do this.
423 2011-05-22 02:31:45 <JFK911> yes, same
424 2011-05-22 02:31:48 <JFK911> sometimes compilers do too
425 2011-05-22 02:31:59 <lfm> on the other hand automaticlyy fiddling with the stack is required
426 2011-05-22 02:32:00 <Namegduf> Compilers are allowed
427 2011-05-22 02:32:02 <ArtForz> gmaxwell: just destroy the universe on error
428 2011-05-22 02:32:03 <JFK911> back in the dos days, overlay loaders were notorious for screwing up your debug this way
429 2011-05-22 02:32:08 <diki> well, gnight all
430 2011-05-22 02:32:13 diki has quit ()
431 2011-05-22 02:32:13 <gmaxwell> the compiler is allowed to do nasty shit, it's also responsible for getting it right. :)
432 2011-05-22 02:32:20 <ArtForz> then in some univeres you'll have a error free program ;)
433 2011-05-22 02:32:21 <Namegduf> Compilers create the stack generation and function call code, the're allowed to do clever optimisations with it.
434 2011-05-22 02:32:24 <Namegduf> Yeah.
435 2011-05-22 02:33:00 <lfm> the only error free software is trivial. by definition
436 2011-05-22 02:33:40 <gmaxwell> I'm a fan of software systems that let you establish provable properties, ... but I can never bring myself to use any of them.
437 2011-05-22 02:34:02 <gmaxwell> I think everyone else should, however!
438 2011-05-22 02:34:29 <lfm> gmaxwell: just causes regression, so you arnt sure if you made a mistake in the proof
439 2011-05-22 02:34:37 bill_h has joined
440 2011-05-22 02:34:43 <ArtForz> "my code isn't buggy, it works exactly as implemented"
441 2011-05-22 02:34:49 <Namegduf> They're useful, although not immune to specification errors
442 2011-05-22 02:35:06 <Namegduf> (And indeed, the specification being more complex leads to them being more probable for a constant amount of checks)
443 2011-05-22 02:35:14 <gmaxwell> lfm: well, they can automatically prove a good chunk of stuff, alsoâ it's at least two chances to catch the error.
444 2011-05-22 02:35:34 <Namegduf> You can prove code matches a specification if the specification is sufficiently detailed.
445 2011-05-22 02:35:49 <Namegduf> The problem is that then the specification can have bugs, so you need to verify properties about that separately.
446 2011-05-22 02:36:00 <ArtForz> yep
447 2011-05-22 02:36:02 <gmaxwell> Moreover, there is evidence that it works. E.g. someone did a C compiler fuzztester, and the only compiler without bugs was the one written using a provable framework.
448 2011-05-22 02:36:04 <lfm> if writing the spec takes longer than writing the program?
449 2011-05-22 02:36:09 <Namegduf> MUCH longer.
450 2011-05-22 02:36:19 <Namegduf> This is "nuclear power plant control software" grade engineering
451 2011-05-22 02:36:23 <ArtForz> and catching all possible cases in the spec = fun
452 2011-05-22 02:36:25 <Namegduf> Or aerospace engineering
453 2011-05-22 02:36:27 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: yes, but then you're from two places to one place with bugs, if you can actually prove the spec andthecode agree.
454 2011-05-22 02:36:58 <Namegduf> gmaxwell: I don't disagree it's helpful, I'm just saying that it doesn't prove perfection and expressing my view that it isn't worth it for the majority of software.
455 2011-05-22 02:37:00 <gmaxwell> Even going half way and coding in a way/enviroment that facilititates static analysis is helpful.
456 2011-05-22 02:37:09 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: oh well, we agree then.
457 2011-05-22 02:37:09 <lfm> surprizing anything ever gets done
458 2011-05-22 02:37:14 <Namegduf> Not worth taking 10x as long to take 99% bug free to 99.9%
459 2011-05-22 02:37:15 <jgarzik> Linus/Linux motto: specs are complete garbage. specs written by committee are even worse. specs written before first field implementation are worse than that.
460 2011-05-22 02:37:19 <Namegduf> In most software.
461 2011-05-22 02:37:28 <jgarzik> real world never matches spec.
462 2011-05-22 02:37:43 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: on the other hand, as the art improves the domain where provable techniques are worthwhile should expand.
463 2011-05-22 02:37:51 <Namegduf> gmaxwell: Quite possible.
464 2011-05-22 02:37:54 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
465 2011-05-22 02:38:01 <Namegduf> I also agree on static analysis
466 2011-05-22 02:38:12 <Namegduf> It's one reason I'm fond of Go nowadays.
467 2011-05-22 02:38:27 <Namegduf> Static analysis in a GCed, fast to write language with a "dynamic" feel
468 2011-05-22 02:38:40 <Namegduf> Kinda like a static Python.
469 2011-05-22 02:38:45 BlueMattBot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
470 2011-05-22 02:38:47 <Namegduf> (As... contradictory as that sounds)
471 2011-05-22 02:39:03 <Namegduf> There's not many good languages helping static analysis nowadays.
472 2011-05-22 02:39:10 <jgarzik> static analysis has been a huge asset on big projects
473 2011-05-22 02:39:31 <gmaxwell> I write software which is too simple for me to see benefits from GC. I don't like it. Makes the machine feel non-destermistic. I guess if I ever worked on things other than numerical stuff, signal processing, etc I'd like GC.
474 2011-05-22 02:39:43 BlueMatt has joined
475 2011-05-22 02:39:51 <Namegduf> gmaxwell: That makes sense.
476 2011-05-22 02:40:33 <Namegduf> GC is good for reliability because it... in essence statically verifies that memory allocation and freeing is correct by doing it all for you, so its algorithms just have to be right.
477 2011-05-22 02:40:49 <Namegduf> It is a big performance cost, though.
478 2011-05-22 02:41:11 <phantomcircuit> anybody know how to sign a csr using a key in openssl without the huge ca framework?
479 2011-05-22 02:41:30 <Namegduf> If you've a project whose memory allocation behaviour is simple to manage correctly, then no big win from it.
480 2011-05-22 02:41:32 <gmaxwell> I feel like it can hide bugs too. E.g. not being mindful of lifecycles causing slow leaks rather than double frees or fast memory exahustion... but I guess its all about tradeoffs.
481 2011-05-22 02:41:49 <Namegduf> Lifecycles?
482 2011-05-22 02:42:00 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: yea, in writing realtime software you never want to allocate in the critical path anyways.
483 2011-05-22 02:42:20 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: e.g. keeping references to objects accidently.
484 2011-05-22 02:42:26 <Namegduf> gmaxwell: This is true. GCed languages have a bad habit of hiding allocations, although it isn't part of the definition.
485 2011-05-22 02:43:00 <Namegduf> gmaxwell: Software which does that will also either free-and-access or not free in C, but you do lose the ability for, say, valgrind to detect it.
486 2011-05-22 02:43:47 <gmaxwell> yea, valgrind, esp. with the macros, is a lifesaver.
487 2011-05-22 02:43:52 <Namegduf> Yeah.
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490 2011-05-22 02:47:39 <stuhood> oof⦠maxconnections == 8 by default? somebody mentioned a patch�
491 2011-05-22 02:47:53 <phantomcircuit> stuhood, you can just change it yourself
492 2011-05-22 02:48:19 <stuhood> yea, would be good to change it in master
493 2011-05-22 02:48:39 <lfm> um more or less?
494 2011-05-22 02:48:44 pfifo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
495 2011-05-22 02:48:50 <stuhood> more
496 2011-05-22 02:48:58 <lfm> cuz some nodes are getting too many connections
497 2011-05-22 02:49:07 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
498 2011-05-22 02:49:08 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.349,"low":5.6001,"vol":26887,"buy":6.1,"sell":6.1375,"last":6.1}}
499 2011-05-22 02:49:30 <stuhood> yea
500 2011-05-22 02:49:48 <lfm> that maxconnections is just for outgoing connects
501 2011-05-22 02:50:30 <stuhood> lfm: ok
502 2011-05-22 02:50:43 <stuhood> lfm: curious about your thoughts on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/252
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504 2011-05-22 02:51:44 <stuhood> might help to balance connections across the network if every node had a deterministic, balanced order to try to connect in
505 2011-05-22 02:52:40 <stuhood> lfm: actually, this https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/42 seems to indicate that maxconnections is for increasing the number of inbound connections
506 2011-05-22 02:52:55 <lfm> are current connections unbalanced or you just think they might be?
507 2011-05-22 02:53:33 <stuhood> they might be⦠haven't looked at the code long enough to determine if they are stored in sorted orde
508 2011-05-22 02:53:34 <stuhood> r
509 2011-05-22 02:53:53 <lfm> I think they are tried in age order
510 2011-05-22 02:54:30 <lfm> connections that worked recently are tried first
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522 2011-05-22 03:17:51 <theboos> ;;bc,mtgox
523 2011-05-22 03:17:51 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.22,"low":5.6001,"vol":26950,"buy":6.1,"sell":6.1374,"last":6.1}}
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527 2011-05-22 03:23:20 <genjix> why does bitcoin put the ip address of itself in the version message if it accepts it being completely 0?
528 2011-05-22 03:23:25 <genjix> seems superfluous
529 2011-05-22 03:24:36 <sacarlson> genjix: why is that a problem?
530 2011-05-22 03:27:01 <sacarlson> genjix: I had to look up the super word on google "unnecessary or needless." but I guess that could also mean it's harmless
531 2011-05-22 03:27:39 <genjix> hmm so why does bitcoin do that dns lookup then if it's useless to find it's own ip addr
532 2011-05-22 03:29:23 MasterChief has quit (Quit: Leaving)
533 2011-05-22 03:31:55 <sacarlson> genjix: I think it was just changed from not being able to looking up to now having the option of being looked up, my guess is when that change was made they only changed what had to be changed, just a guess, maybe point me to the line of code
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546 2011-05-22 03:39:11 Netsniper has joined
547 2011-05-22 03:40:08 <Netsniper> waiting for next block http://img.tfd.com/m/wait24.gif
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572 2011-05-22 04:53:36 <erbs> supbro
573 2011-05-22 05:01:11 <erbs> nizzlefoshizzle
574 2011-05-22 05:02:30 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, do you know why the OP_AND/OR/INVERT/XOR are disabled?
575 2011-05-22 05:02:38 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, they dont seem particularly intensive
576 2011-05-22 05:03:27 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
577 2011-05-22 05:03:40 GuruSteve has joined
578 2011-05-22 05:06:56 <eamon> Anyone got the address for the ratings site for bitcoin drug dealers?
579 2011-05-22 05:08:29 BitMark has joined
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590 2011-05-22 05:12:41 <BitMark> http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/#e0d11371df7b3f4ae2258017565f158c260479ebf334067ba17b9be1e0c739f2
591 2011-05-22 05:14:32 ahbritto has joined
592 2011-05-22 05:16:15 <endian7000> and later tonight, I'll try to spend that outpoint
593 2011-05-22 05:19:18 RazielZ has joined
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599 2011-05-22 05:35:22 <sacarlson> why do I see my friend gets a checkpoint security notice when he goes to my bitcoin website? does checkpoint not like bitcoin?
600 2011-05-22 05:36:40 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
601 2011-05-22 05:37:03 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, which website?
602 2011-05-22 05:37:28 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: http://exchange.beertokens.info
603 2011-05-22 05:38:57 <phantomcircuit> lol srsly beertokens?
604 2011-05-22 05:39:06 KhaosT has joined
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606 2011-05-22 05:41:48 <BitMark> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/be4218801eb2922231745af3b7fc0c2371061a614a77c01a5db4f344109e4c0d#o0
607 2011-05-22 05:42:12 KhaosT has quit (Client Quit)
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614 2011-05-22 05:47:18 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: what you don't like beer?
615 2011-05-22 05:47:49 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: I"ve been working for beer for years
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619 2011-05-22 05:51:11 <lamuguo> hi
620 2011-05-22 05:51:14 <lamuguo> anybody here?
621 2011-05-22 05:51:30 <lamuguo> Is there a all-in-one document of the details of the mining algorithm?
622 2011-05-22 05:51:43 qethree has joined
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624 2011-05-22 05:53:10 BurningToad has joined
625 2011-05-22 05:53:31 <sacarlson> lamuguo: all in one I guess would be the source code, that's available in the git
626 2011-05-22 05:54:15 <lamuguo> I read a bit of cpu-miner
627 2011-05-22 05:54:39 <lamuguo> And looks like there are 3 kinds of threads
628 2011-05-22 05:54:55 sethsethseth__ has joined
629 2011-05-22 05:54:59 <erbs> mineline
630 2011-05-22 05:55:21 jps has joined
631 2011-05-22 05:55:23 <qethree> can anyone explain what's going on in jgarzik's cpuminer where only the last 64 bytes of the block data are hashed? mtrlt: you mentioned this in answer to my newb questions yesterday
632 2011-05-22 05:55:47 <jgarzik> qethree: the first 64 bytes are hashed in bitcoind, and passed via 'midstate'
633 2011-05-22 05:55:49 <qethree> "last 64 bytes of combined header + padding"
634 2011-05-22 05:55:58 <jgarzik> qethree: sha256 operates on 64 byte blocks
635 2011-05-22 05:56:02 <sacarlson> I did some reading at the checkpoint site, I think my haveing a windows exe file exposed on my site might have trigered it do I deleted it and only have the zip file
636 2011-05-22 05:56:07 <jgarzik> or 32 byte? I forget.
637 2011-05-22 05:56:23 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
638 2011-05-22 05:56:23 <jgarzik> in any case, that was the boundary at which midstate stopped
639 2011-05-22 05:56:40 <qethree> jgarzik: awesome thanks
640 2011-05-22 05:56:51 <jps> are there any statistics on the wait time to detect double spend attempts?
641 2011-05-22 05:57:35 <sacarlson> jps: if you get one confirm I can't see much chance of a double spend
642 2011-05-22 05:58:14 <jps> okay bear with me because I'm a noob. How long does it take to get a confirm on average?
643 2011-05-22 05:58:29 <sacarlson> jps: 10 - 20 minits?
644 2011-05-22 05:58:45 <erbs> mangusa
645 2011-05-22 05:59:56 <jps> so, if I'm deciding how long to wait to deliver, can I tell customers that it will "never" be more than an hour to get a confirm?
646 2011-05-22 06:01:06 <sacarlson> jps: I"ve heard worst case people complain about over 12 hours before they get a confirm if they don't already have the blocks downloaded into the client
647 2011-05-22 06:02:00 <jps> understood, but that's a one time thing, right? Doesn't the client try to download and cache blocks?
648 2011-05-22 06:02:43 <jps> or will new blocks needed not necessarily be propagated?
649 2011-05-22 06:02:47 <sacarlson> jps: seems to happen to me too if I just start a client for the first time with no database setup yet, not just one off
650 2011-05-22 06:02:47 lulzplzk1hx has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
651 2011-05-22 06:03:38 <jps> so, I have to remain connected if I want to guarantee snappy confirm times
652 2011-05-22 06:03:49 lulzplzkthx has joined
653 2011-05-22 06:03:56 <sacarlson> jps: but I should assume they send to you that you already have a full set of blocks and they must have to send you any
654 2011-05-22 06:04:47 <sacarlson> jps: oh ya I forgot about that if you were offline for some times you still need to pull the new blocks since you were last online
655 2011-05-22 06:04:54 <jps> ok
656 2011-05-22 06:05:48 <luke-jr> jps: basically the only possibility of a double-spend after 1 confirm is either insane "luck", or [Tycho] is at fault
657 2011-05-22 06:05:53 <sacarlson> jps: you could use mybitcoin to be the reciever were they run 24/7
658 2011-05-22 06:06:15 <jps> mybitcoin? a centralized clearinghouse?
659 2011-05-22 06:06:25 <sacarlson> luke-jr: who or what is Tycho?
660 2011-05-22 06:06:26 <luke-jr> sacarlson: um, nonsense. running 24/7 is irrelevant
661 2011-05-22 06:06:32 <luke-jr> sacarlson: [Tycho] controls Deepbit
662 2011-05-22 06:06:43 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
663 2011-05-22 06:07:24 <sacarlson> luke-jr when I was off for over 2 weeks it seemed it still took some time to get all the block I was missing but nothing like 12 hours
664 2011-05-22 06:07:25 <jps> hm, the p2p takover attack? I used to work for an ad company who pretended to be 2000 limewire/gnutella nodes.... not my favorite job
665 2011-05-22 06:07:45 traviscj has joined
666 2011-05-22 06:07:53 <luke-jr> sacarlson: who's off for over 2 weeks?
667 2011-05-22 06:08:09 <luke-jr> jps: merely being a node doesn't let you take over
668 2011-05-22 06:08:19 <luke-jr> jps: you need to out-hash the rest of the network
669 2011-05-22 06:08:25 <luke-jr> jps: which [Tycho] can do on occasion
670 2011-05-22 06:08:29 <jps> yeah I read that part of the faq
671 2011-05-22 06:08:47 <sacarlson> luke-jr: >>>>me<<<<< I normaly only run -testnet and when someone wanted to donate me some money I had to shutdown my other nets to bring up btc main and found it took some time
672 2011-05-22 06:09:53 <stuhood> i think i found a bug in the official client that can harm startup times a bit... need to confirm though
673 2011-05-22 06:10:11 _Netsniper_ has joined
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675 2011-05-22 06:11:27 <jps> hmm, well I guess mybitcoin.com is right for me, but they could sure use some more docs on their site
676 2011-05-22 06:11:39 <lfm> jps: anyway connected state has no effect really on confirm times. the only minor effect is when you reconnect you need to catch up to the current block chain. it doesnt effect confirms
677 2011-05-22 06:11:43 <sacarlson> stuhood: i'll confirm what is needed to duplicate the condition
678 2011-05-22 06:11:48 karnac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
679 2011-05-22 06:11:51 <stuhood> jps, luke-jr, sacarlson: from my understanding of the protocol, waiting for more than 1 confirm is wise
680 2011-05-22 06:12:13 karnac has joined
681 2011-05-22 06:12:34 <sacarlson> stuhood: I have enuf trust in people I work with that one is enuf for me
682 2011-05-22 06:12:38 has quit (Netsniper|!~kvirc@76.251.226.53|Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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684 2011-05-22 06:12:52 <lfm> stuhood: more than 1 confirm quickly becomes a theoretical only possibility of any problems.
685 2011-05-22 06:13:36 <stuhood> right, but block generation now is oddly bursty⦠the chance of two blocks begin generated at approximately the same time is fairly high
686 2011-05-22 06:13:55 <lfm> for myself Id prolly go for 2 confirms but its a matter of taste then
687 2011-05-22 06:14:05 <stuhood> yea, i'd feel better at 2 as well
688 2011-05-22 06:14:26 KhaosT has quit (Quit: Bye!)
689 2011-05-22 06:14:33 <Namegduf> I go with 1 just because at my scale of transactions, trying to pull off an attack on the network is "unlikely"
690 2011-05-22 06:14:39 <stuhood> there are 14 blocks per hour right now⦠when the network isn't growing so fast the difficulty should stabilize
691 2011-05-22 06:15:20 <stuhood> true. it all depends on how likely somebody is to try and reverse your transaction.
692 2011-05-22 06:15:37 <jps> try and reverse, stuhood?
693 2011-05-22 06:15:48 <sacarlson> lfm: wouldn't double spend have to be done on purpus not on accident? With the dificulty and the standard setting of 6 confirms before money can be spent I'm not sure who would even try
694 2011-05-22 06:15:55 <stuhood> sorry, not reverse⦠just double spend
695 2011-05-22 06:17:30 <luke-jr> double spend = reverse
696 2011-05-22 06:18:32 <lfm> sacarlson: ya a double spend attemp would nearly have to be deliberate.
697 2011-05-22 06:18:39 <sacarlson> luke-jr: I agree double spend = reverse, same outcome you thought you had money but later on the next confirm the real numbers apear
698 2011-05-22 06:18:53 <stuhood> luke-jr: good point. a double spend is a subset of reversal
699 2011-05-22 06:19:00 <luke-jr> lfm: it can happen by accident, IIRC
700 2011-05-22 06:19:11 <luke-jr> stuhood: superset
701 2011-05-22 06:19:17 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
702 2011-05-22 06:19:18 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.2999,"low":5.608,"vol":23573,"buy":6.2,"sell":6.2899,"last":6.2899}}
703 2011-05-22 06:19:27 <luke-jr> double-spend could have 2 real destinations
704 2011-05-22 06:19:36 <luke-jr> a reversal is a double-spend where the 2nd destination is the sender
705 2011-05-22 06:19:59 <lfm> most cases the same txn will be in both branches of a fork or the user will accidently pay twice (not a double spend as we mean it here)
706 2011-05-22 06:20:20 <sacarlson> lfm: only method I can imagin it could be done is with a middle man attack with an isolated user in a controled ISP, and even with that I find it hard at todays difficulty that even that would be posible
707 2011-05-22 06:20:30 <erbs> sup
708 2011-05-22 06:20:32 <erbs> luke-jr is cool
709 2011-05-22 06:20:49 <endian7000> we need to speed up the network
710 2011-05-22 06:20:54 <endian7000> with NodeJS supernodes
711 2011-05-22 06:21:03 gjs278 has joined
712 2011-05-22 06:21:12 <erbs> werd
713 2011-05-22 06:21:15 <endian7000> with a set of preferred peers with whom it trys to always maintain a connection
714 2011-05-22 06:21:20 <stuhood> luke-jr: i see⦠because there is no such thing as making the transaction truly disappear: one will end up rejected eventually
715 2011-05-22 06:21:26 <stuhood> luke-jr: makes sense
716 2011-05-22 06:21:42 <erbs> seriously man i got food poisoning from qdoba
717 2011-05-22 06:21:46 <erbs> that place is shit
718 2011-05-22 06:22:06 <endian7000> and have Amazon {us-east, us-west, europe, japan} micros and every mining pool and exchange in a fully-connected graph
719 2011-05-22 06:22:58 <lfm> you trust amazon?!
720 2011-05-22 06:23:09 <stuhood> endian7000: thoughts on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/252 ?
721 2011-05-22 06:23:22 <lfm> theyre one of the corps that might attack bitcoin
722 2011-05-22 06:23:39 <endian7000> lfm: who said anything about trust? each node verifies
723 2011-05-22 06:23:59 <endian7000> if amazon drops a TX, a node would get it anyway
724 2011-05-22 06:24:09 <endian7000> e.g. 57 ms later
725 2011-05-22 06:24:14 <lfm> endian7000: all nodes veirfy already, why turn the center of the net over to amazon?
726 2011-05-22 06:24:25 <erbs> stuhood: makes a lot of sense
727 2011-05-22 06:25:09 <endian7000> who said anything about turning over anything? they'd just provide some of the many paths the TXs would take
728 2011-05-22 06:25:22 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
729 2011-05-22 06:25:22 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.2999,"low":5.608,"vol":23441,"buy":6.201,"sell":6.2899,"last":6.2899}}
730 2011-05-22 06:25:51 <jps> are the slow transactions listed on http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ because the receivers are waiting on blocks?
731 2011-05-22 06:26:00 <endian7000> stuhood: interesting
732 2011-05-22 06:28:26 <jps> are there any confirmation time statistics updated anywhere?
733 2011-05-22 06:29:23 <sacarlson> stuhood: I would just addnode= manualy if you don't trust the nodes that bitcoin is giving you, you could use your xor method to customize your own list of nodes
734 2011-05-22 06:30:13 <lfm> jps huh? not really that I know of. generally we just kinda accept that it will be 10 min sooner or later and tends to be a bit faster as the net is growing ( and will be slower if we shrink)
735 2011-05-22 06:30:45 <stuhood> would be useful though...
736 2011-05-22 06:31:16 <stuhood> transactions are timestamped in blocks, and blocks are timestamped, right?
737 2011-05-22 06:31:32 <lfm> txn are not, just blocks
738 2011-05-22 06:32:10 <stuhood> hm, so you'd have to modify a node to record when it first saw the transaction?
739 2011-05-22 06:32:14 <endian7000> though the various monitoring sites timestamp TXs as they arrive
740 2011-05-22 06:32:23 <jps> yeah, and if you published stuff like that it would grow faster ... because people like me who want to dip a toe in the pond but are terrified of uncertainty would know more about what to expect, and what to tell customers
741 2011-05-22 06:33:17 <lfm> terrified of uncertainty? how can you live with the internet at all?
742 2011-05-22 06:33:21 <jps> lol
743 2011-05-22 06:33:28 Astrohacker has joined
744 2011-05-22 06:33:33 <stuhood> lfm: trusted third parties =P
745 2011-05-22 06:33:50 <jps> the internet is substantially more reliable than my customers
746 2011-05-22 06:35:04 sonihr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
747 2011-05-22 06:35:18 lamuguo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
748 2011-05-22 06:35:22 <lfm> you know how the ip (internet protocol) works when there are too many packets to fit on a transmission line? it just drops the extra packets! no error message or anything cuz that would just need more packets to send.
749 2011-05-22 06:36:37 <jps> I am currently being sued by someone who bought $3750 of custom software, refused to accept delivery, and refused to say why, even after several emails over two months. I'm sure he'll think of something to say at the hearing
750 2011-05-22 06:37:41 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
751 2011-05-22 06:37:58 <lfm> so uncertainty is one of the very basic design features of the internet
752 2011-05-22 06:38:01 <jps> for most of the stuff I sell, I'm happy to accept different forms of payment, but there's always someone who complains about something. I guess anyone paying with bitcoin is going to know it will take at least 10-20 minutes to clear for delievery
753 2011-05-22 06:39:26 <phantomcircuit> jps, that sounds pretty shitty
754 2011-05-22 06:40:01 <jps> I've been through worse. But this is certainly tops so far in the absurdity category
755 2011-05-22 06:40:19 <jps> anyway, thanks for the help, I think I'll try mybitcoin.com
756 2011-05-22 06:40:26 <lfm> sounds to me like we are only hearing one side of the story
757 2011-05-22 06:40:29 vorlov has joined
758 2011-05-22 06:40:36 vorlov has quit (Client Quit)
759 2011-05-22 06:40:58 <jps> I wish I could get his side of the story out of him
760 2011-05-22 06:42:08 <jps> the best I can guess is that he just had buyer's remorse or decided he didn't want/couldn't use it after he'd paid and I started, but right up to the day I sent him the stuff to test he was saying "sounds like you're making good progress"
761 2011-05-22 06:42:44 <jps> anyway don't let me bore you with this, I'm sure the judge will be bored enough for all of us
762 2011-05-22 06:42:47 <jps> 'later
763 2011-05-22 06:42:48 qethree has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
764 2011-05-22 06:43:13 <stuhood> good luck
765 2011-05-22 06:43:19 <lfm> like in "Cool Hand Luke" what we have here is a failure to communicate"
766 2011-05-22 06:45:13 <stuhood> it looks like when bitcoin tries to connect to a node, it always updates the nLastTry field for the destination address
767 2011-05-22 06:46:24 alystair has joined
768 2011-05-22 06:46:39 <stuhood> i think that means that if you successfully connect to a node, disconnect for a while, and come back later, you won't try to connect to that node again, since it will trigger the backoff logic
769 2011-05-22 06:47:35 <lfm> there is also a last connect for if the connect works , correct?
770 2011-05-22 06:49:11 <stuhood> lfm: not sure what you mean⦠don't think so
771 2011-05-22 06:50:05 jps has left ()
772 2011-05-22 06:51:00 <stuhood> lfm: oh⦠there is the lastSeen field, yea.
773 2011-05-22 06:51:14 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
774 2011-05-22 06:51:38 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
775 2011-05-22 06:51:39 Kurtov has joined
776 2011-05-22 06:52:37 <lfm> k, thats what I was thinking of, those two kinda work together to choose the next node to try I think
777 2011-05-22 06:53:43 royblankman has joined
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779 2011-05-22 06:57:24 Stellar has joined
780 2011-05-22 06:57:45 <stuhood> lfm: yea, since nDelay will always be less than the nSinceLastSeen i think it works out. thanks.
781 2011-05-22 07:08:51 stuhood has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
782 2011-05-22 07:12:53 dissipate has joined
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784 2011-05-22 07:15:43 plutonic has quit (Quit: plutonic)
785 2011-05-22 07:21:17 sabalabas has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
786 2011-05-22 07:21:32 <erbs> supok
787 2011-05-22 07:24:32 TD has joined
788 2011-05-22 07:25:17 <JFK911> ;;bc,calc 800000
789 2011-05-22 07:25:18 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 2 weeks, 1 day, 4 hours, 5 minutes, and 13 seconds
790 2011-05-22 07:26:27 BitMark has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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794 2011-05-22 07:28:15 BitMark has joined
795 2011-05-22 07:32:40 xorAxAx has joined
796 2011-05-22 07:32:55 <xorAxAx> how do i get the network rate via a json api?
797 2011-05-22 07:34:55 <xorAxAx> ;;bc,rate
798 2011-05-22 07:34:56 <gribble> Error: "bc,rate" is not a valid command.
799 2011-05-22 07:35:18 fimp has joined
800 2011-05-22 07:40:58 Diablo-D3 has joined
801 2011-05-22 07:41:37 <erbs> qdoba poisoned me
802 2011-05-22 07:41:41 <erbs> blurry vision
803 2011-05-22 07:41:46 <erbs> i cant see
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811 2011-05-22 07:55:12 Kurtov has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
812 2011-05-22 07:59:42 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
813 2011-05-22 07:59:43 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.399,"low":5.62,"vol":23661,"buy":6.3989,"sell":6.399,"last":6.399}}
814 2011-05-22 07:59:48 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
815 2011-05-22 07:59:50 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125716 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1291 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 1 hour, 35 minutes, and 46 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 361102.21278692
816 2011-05-22 08:01:19 tasha3 has joined
817 2011-05-22 08:01:29 oneman has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
818 2011-05-22 08:06:44 Marcel has joined
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820 2011-05-22 08:09:01 <thermal> so, i'm thinking of making a web-based bootstrap that could be hosted at bootstrap.bitcoin.org to replace the irc version
821 2011-05-22 08:10:09 <thermal> then peers could also be matched using certain criteria such as geographical location
822 2011-05-22 08:10:55 <thermal> is there a peer-exchange equivalent in bitcoin atm?
823 2011-05-22 08:13:00 <tasha3> interesting
824 2011-05-22 08:13:11 ZenMondo has left ()
825 2011-05-22 08:14:50 <tasha3> Date: 21-5-2011 23:21 ... 50.00 matures in 83 more blocks .... testnet zzzzzzzzzz
826 2011-05-22 08:15:08 <tasha3> you mean ip geotargeting?
827 2011-05-22 08:15:30 <thermal> yes
828 2011-05-22 08:16:07 <thermal> it could use ccTLD matching with a fallback to ip address
829 2011-05-22 08:17:07 oneman has joined
830 2011-05-22 08:20:18 <Diablo-D3> ;;mt,gox
831 2011-05-22 08:20:18 <gribble> Error: "mt,gox" is not a valid command.
832 2011-05-22 08:20:23 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
833 2011-05-22 08:20:23 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.399,"low":5.6201,"vol":23294,"buy":6.395,"sell":6.399,"last":6.3988}}
834 2011-05-22 08:24:50 marlowe has joined
835 2011-05-22 08:25:53 <erbs> sup
836 2011-05-22 08:26:21 mtrlt has joined
837 2011-05-22 08:32:04 <tasha3> hmm... trying to compile on win7 64k
838 2011-05-22 08:32:07 <tasha3> lots of stuff to install
839 2011-05-22 08:32:28 <tasha3> instructions are.... v.minimal
840 2011-05-22 08:32:44 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
841 2011-05-22 08:32:45 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.399,"low":5.6201,"vol":23348,"buy":6.34,"sell":6.399,"last":6.3988}}
842 2011-05-22 08:35:07 AStove has joined
843 2011-05-22 08:35:10 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
844 2011-05-22 08:37:39 <erbs> sup
845 2011-05-22 08:38:04 <tasha3> wow
846 2011-05-22 08:38:15 <erbs> what dude
847 2011-05-22 08:38:17 <tasha3> I was thinking of naming my project with word 'simple'
848 2011-05-22 08:38:35 <tasha3> and someone just made a git repos 6 hours ago for Simple-Bitcoin-PHP
849 2011-05-22 08:38:40 <tasha3> now I need a new name
850 2011-05-22 08:38:52 <erbs> phpcoin
851 2011-05-22 08:39:25 <tasha3> phpcoin.com is taken by non-bitcoin company
852 2011-05-22 08:39:54 <tasha3> but good idea
853 2011-05-22 08:39:56 <Dekbit> simple bits
854 2011-05-22 08:40:28 <erbs> phpbitcoin
855 2011-05-22 08:40:51 <tasha3> AbitComplicatedCoin
856 2011-05-22 08:40:57 <jrabbit> tasha3: do you want a p[roejct name or a domain
857 2011-05-22 08:41:25 <tasha3> project name only... but I like something ' newish '
858 2011-05-22 08:41:52 <Dekbit> Simple Bits 9000
859 2011-05-22 08:41:54 <tasha3> BitcoinSkin
860 2011-05-22 08:42:22 <tasha3> wallet-skin
861 2011-05-22 08:42:51 <tasha3> anyways
862 2011-05-22 08:42:59 <erbs> its php?
863 2011-05-22 08:43:08 <tasha3> i got it working on local network... was fun to view via iphone
864 2011-05-22 08:43:10 <tasha3> yup, php
865 2011-05-22 08:43:30 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
866 2011-05-22 08:43:48 <tasha3> i'm going to do a simple skin and a mobile skin.. then release
867 2011-05-22 08:44:13 <jrabbit> tasha3: unique project names are impossible
868 2011-05-22 08:44:18 <jrabbit> just pick a good one
869 2011-05-22 08:44:45 <tasha3> so picked
870 2011-05-22 08:45:14 <tasha3> php-Pineapple-Elephant-Bitcoin
871 2011-05-22 08:49:15 <tasha3> one wonders how effective putting 'donate {address}' in forum posting sigs.
872 2011-05-22 08:49:42 <tasha3> could write a bot to scrape all the donate addresses, and see what their transactions are
873 2011-05-22 08:49:43 <tasha3> heh
874 2011-05-22 08:50:32 <sacarlson> tasha3: well with mybitcoin.com the address changes
875 2011-05-22 08:50:47 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
876 2011-05-22 08:51:19 TheAncientGoat has joined
877 2011-05-22 08:51:50 <tasha3> but in forum postings, the address is set-in-stone
878 2011-05-22 08:52:19 <tasha3> ding... Generated 50.00 on testnet
879 2011-05-22 08:52:28 <tasha3> time: 11 hours
880 2011-05-22 08:52:34 <tasha3> at 1 Mh/s
881 2011-05-22 08:53:08 <sacarlson> tasha3: can't you just add a link in your posting to your mybitcoin.com link
882 2011-05-22 08:53:51 <tasha3> you could do anything
883 2011-05-22 08:53:58 <sacarlson> tasha3: that's how I do it in my site so I don't need a server running to collect the donations
884 2011-05-22 08:54:08 <tasha3> but I'm talking about tracking if forum postings generate much income or not
885 2011-05-22 08:54:54 <sacarlson> tasha3: as I said they can't be traceable with mybitcoin.com since they know not what address was given to the ones that went to your link
886 2011-05-22 08:55:43 <tasha3> if you want a middleman in your transaction..
887 2011-05-22 08:55:46 <tasha3> you could do that
888 2011-05-22 08:55:53 <sacarlson> tasha3: not that the tax man would be out looking for you
889 2011-05-22 08:55:58 <tasha3> heh
890 2011-05-22 08:57:39 theboos has joined
891 2011-05-22 09:01:45 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
892 2011-05-22 09:08:44 <midnightmagic> i'm just not satisfied with the pid fan controller..
893 2011-05-22 09:10:05 mesees has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
894 2011-05-22 09:10:07 stex131 has joined
895 2011-05-22 09:12:01 <midnightmagic> if it ever runs for long periods of time where the actual temp is less than target temp even if the controller is 0, the integral will grow into the negatives indefinitely and if you grow it large enough, it'll never come out again without a danger-zone reset. but if we clamp the integral to some abs() value, it can recover extremely rapidly even after a long period of GPU inactivity.
896 2011-05-22 09:13:49 Marf has joined
897 2011-05-22 09:24:13 TD has joined
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901 2011-05-22 09:30:58 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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904 2011-05-22 09:40:30 sethsethseth____ is now known as sethsethseth_
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906 2011-05-22 09:43:20 sethsethseth___ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
907 2011-05-22 09:46:02 dissipate has joined
908 2011-05-22 09:46:02 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
909 2011-05-22 09:46:02 dissipate has joined
910 2011-05-22 09:49:47 <erbs> interesting midnightmagic
911 2011-05-22 09:49:55 <justmoon> TD: you kept talking about doing a 3d globe with bitcoin nodes, nobody has done that yet have they?
912 2011-05-22 09:50:06 <TD> i don't think so
913 2011-05-22 09:50:34 Klash__ has joined
914 2011-05-22 09:50:44 <justmoon> TD: phew...
915 2011-05-22 09:50:50 BitMark has quit (Quit: BitMark)
916 2011-05-22 09:50:55 <justmoon> TD: then I'm the first: http://www.weusecoins.com/globe-bitcoin/
917 2011-05-22 09:51:20 <Marf> nice
918 2011-05-22 09:51:23 hb has joined
919 2011-05-22 09:51:25 <Marf> what does the bar mean?
920 2011-05-22 09:51:26 <sipa> i don't see anything :(
921 2011-05-22 09:51:32 <Marf> use google chrome
922 2011-05-22 09:51:39 <justmoon> sipa: webgl browser required (chrome or latest firefox)
923 2011-05-22 09:51:47 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
924 2011-05-22 09:51:48 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.399,"low":5.6202,"vol":23262,"buy":6.1301,"sell":6.2,"last":6.1305}}
925 2011-05-22 09:51:51 <sipa> well, i'm using chromium - but not the latest version i suppose
926 2011-05-22 09:51:59 hb has quit (Client Quit)
927 2011-05-22 09:52:08 <justmoon> Marf: assuming you're seeing the same thing as me the bars are the number of nodes in a given city
928 2011-05-22 09:52:44 percymate has joined
929 2011-05-22 09:53:27 <erbs> need some free coin
930 2011-05-22 09:53:31 <erbs> im panhandling
931 2011-05-22 09:53:40 Klash_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
932 2011-05-22 09:53:44 <justmoon> gonna do a forum post in a minute with screenshot, then you can check if you're seeing the right thing
933 2011-05-22 09:54:46 da2ce7 has joined
934 2011-05-22 09:56:51 da2ce7 has quit (Client Quit)
935 2011-05-22 09:56:55 <midnightmagic> erbs: and in working with it i'm wrong again. big surprise. but anyway, tweaking it again and again until it recovers fast enough, and does undershoot the mark, and has a feed-forward based on GPU activitypercent so there's no runaway thermal.. "events"
936 2011-05-22 09:57:04 <midnightmagic> erbs: i think i have it just about right now
937 2011-05-22 09:58:29 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
938 2011-05-22 10:00:33 <justmoon> anybody knows who runs dump.bitcoin.it?
939 2011-05-22 10:02:06 <tasha3> pfft... I wanted to make a gmail account with a bitcoin address as the name
940 2011-05-22 10:02:14 da2ce7 has joined
941 2011-05-22 10:02:22 <tasha3> but address is too many characters, can only do 30 on gmail
942 2011-05-22 10:02:50 <TD> justmoon: wow, epic :-)
943 2011-05-22 10:02:59 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
944 2011-05-22 10:03:00 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.399,"low":5.6202,"vol":23180,"buy":6.1301,"sell":6.2,"last":6.1305}}
945 2011-05-22 10:03:04 <justmoon> TD: your idea, bro - and googles code
946 2011-05-22 10:03:11 <TD> justmoon: what do the colours mean?
947 2011-05-22 10:03:25 <justmoon> they're automatic, same as height
948 2011-05-22 10:04:03 <TD> height is uptime?
949 2011-05-22 10:04:11 <justmoon> nope, no of nodes per city
950 2011-05-22 10:04:20 <TD> ah, cool
951 2011-05-22 10:04:23 <justmoon> so london = big ass long orange bar
952 2011-05-22 10:04:39 <TD> wow. there are a lot more nodes than i thought there would be
953 2011-05-22 10:04:47 <justmoon> 15k at the moment
954 2011-05-22 10:05:03 <justmoon> according to this dataset anyways
955 2011-05-22 10:05:07 <TD> quite a few in china. i am surprised.
956 2011-05-22 10:05:09 <percymate> How do you find how many Ghash/s are being calculated?
957 2011-05-22 10:05:10 <justmoon> it's from dump.bitcoin.it
958 2011-05-22 10:05:22 <justmoon> percymate: bitcoinwatch.com or bitcoin.sipa.be
959 2011-05-22 10:05:48 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
960 2011-05-22 10:06:10 <justmoon> TD: do you know who runs dump.bitcoin.it? I need to give credit
961 2011-05-22 10:06:15 <percymate> Thanks!
962 2011-05-22 10:06:28 <TD> i don't. the wiki is hosted by magicaltux
963 2011-05-22 10:06:33 <TD> maybe the whole site is owned by him
964 2011-05-22 10:06:58 <justmoon> ok thx
965 2011-05-22 10:07:08 <TD> by the way, is the forum broken?
966 2011-05-22 10:07:17 <TD> every link now seems to redirect to an SSLd URL
967 2011-05-22 10:07:25 <TD> and the CSS doesn't load anymore
968 2011-05-22 10:07:25 <justmoon> I think that's intentional :D
969 2011-05-22 10:07:29 <justmoon> that isn't
970 2011-05-22 10:07:32 <justmoon> but works for me
971 2011-05-22 10:08:06 <justmoon> to clarify: SSL is intended I think and CSS works for me
972 2011-05-22 10:08:43 <TD> maybe this is a chrome thing
973 2011-05-22 10:08:49 <TD> i suspect the CSS isn't loading because of the bad SSL cert
974 2011-05-22 10:09:23 <TD> yeah
975 2011-05-22 10:09:33 <TD> chrome is blocking the loads due to running insecure content. PAIN.
976 2011-05-22 10:10:24 tasha3 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
977 2011-05-22 10:10:49 <justmoon> hey if this was your online banking and you were in an internet cafe, chrome may have just saved your entire account balance
978 2011-05-22 10:11:15 da2ce7 has quit ()
979 2011-05-22 10:11:26 <TD> yeah. the pain was really directed at the forum :)
980 2011-05-22 10:11:33 * TD understands why it's done this way
981 2011-05-22 10:12:00 <justmoon> ah, right - well report it is all I can say :)
982 2011-05-22 10:16:06 <TD> done
983 2011-05-22 10:16:31 <justmoon> TD: as an occasional chrome user, let me say: thanks :)
984 2011-05-22 10:16:34 <TD> hmm. i wonder how many people can see the globe
985 2011-05-22 10:16:40 <justmoon> about 40% or so
986 2011-05-22 10:16:45 <justmoon> I'll post a screenshot for the rest
987 2011-05-22 10:16:49 <TD> it works great on chrome/mac but i know from trying before that my desktop can't handle it
988 2011-05-22 10:16:57 <TD> some driver issue i guess
989 2011-05-22 10:17:10 <TD> well i presume 40% is firefox4+chrome, you mean? but not all devices can run webgl
990 2011-05-22 10:17:18 <TD> some peoples hardware hits a driver blacklist iirc
991 2011-05-22 10:17:30 <justmoon> hmm, then I don't percentage, webgl works everywhere I've tried (10 machines or so)
992 2011-05-22 10:17:37 <justmoon> don't know*
993 2011-05-22 10:18:14 gsathya has joined
994 2011-05-22 10:18:50 <TD> cool
995 2011-05-22 10:19:16 <TD> gonna link it from the weusecoins page?
996 2011-05-22 10:19:47 <justmoon> hmm, probably not due to compatibility issue, but I'm posting it on the forums right now
997 2011-05-22 10:19:56 <TD> justmoon: btw typo on the getting started page, "where this is nott necessary"
998 2011-05-22 10:20:06 <justmoon> whoops, thx
999 2011-05-22 10:22:26 <justmoon> fixed
1000 2011-05-22 10:23:55 percymate has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1001 2011-05-22 10:33:34 gribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1002 2011-05-22 10:33:42 Astriks has joined
1003 2011-05-22 10:33:53 * TD wonders why the british tax authorities require use of black ink specifically
1004 2011-05-22 10:34:25 <justmoon> I wouldn't know, they keep sending me form and I keep ignoring them
1005 2011-05-22 10:34:28 <justmoon> forms*
1006 2011-05-22 10:34:45 noagendamarket has joined
1007 2011-05-22 10:34:48 <TD> heh
1008 2011-05-22 10:34:53 <TD> well i did the swiss ones already
1009 2011-05-22 10:35:04 <justmoon> I've tried to tell them that I'm no longer self-employed in London, but they say I have to physically come by to unregister and I can't be bothered
1010 2011-05-22 10:35:08 <TD> yeah
1011 2011-05-22 10:35:16 <TD> i've told them several times i don't need to pay them any tax
1012 2011-05-22 10:35:28 <justmoon> lol
1013 2011-05-22 10:35:34 <justmoon> guess it's standard procedure then
1014 2011-05-22 10:35:36 <TD> last year i tried ignoring them entirely, got fined 100 pounds. so then i sent them the paperwork
1015 2011-05-22 10:35:43 <TD> and they refunded me my late fees
1016 2011-05-22 10:35:49 <TD> however, i could not claim from abroad *smack*
1017 2011-05-22 10:36:28 <TD> i also asked how to do it online as they require you to provide a postcode, and they gave me a magic postcode they said was reserved for expats
1018 2011-05-22 10:36:36 <TD> except it maps to some farmhouse in some random part of the country
1019 2011-05-22 10:36:41 Tritonio has joined
1020 2011-05-22 10:36:43 <justmoon> rofl
1021 2011-05-22 10:36:46 <TD> would love to see the tax bill for that place :-)
1022 2011-05-22 10:36:59 <justmoon> to me they just told filing online isn't possible from abroad
1023 2011-05-22 10:37:22 <TD> yeah they don't seem to get the "inter" part of the word internet
1024 2011-05-22 10:37:56 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1025 2011-05-22 10:38:26 devon_hillard has joined
1026 2011-05-22 10:39:43 <TD> the most annoying part is where they ask the precise number of days you spent in the uk
1027 2011-05-22 10:39:46 <TD> i never remember to count
1028 2011-05-22 10:41:48 xorAxAx has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1029 2011-05-22 10:41:52 deaf has joined
1030 2011-05-22 10:42:09 <deaf> Does anyone know how http://freebitcoins.appspot.com works?
1031 2011-05-22 10:42:35 <justmoon> deaf: enter google account, receive free bitcoins - you need a bitcoin wallet first!
1032 2011-05-22 10:42:50 <deaf> when you look at recent transactions
1033 2011-05-22 10:42:53 <TD> well
1034 2011-05-22 10:42:53 <Namegduf> deaf: People donate to it.
1035 2011-05-22 10:42:55 <TD> not at the moment
1036 2011-05-22 10:42:57 <TD> because, it's empty
1037 2011-05-22 10:42:57 <deaf> 100% of the emails are fake
1038 2011-05-22 10:43:03 <TD> deaf: they are scrambled
1039 2011-05-22 10:43:10 <molecular> ArtForz (and others), I'm sure you saw this opensource fpga miner stuff: https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9047.0. I remember you said completely unrolled 2 x sha256 was only possible on the biggest of FPGAs. Is that implementation different? how?
1040 2011-05-22 10:43:15 <TD> deaf: only admins can see the unobfuscated emails. it's for privacy/antispam whilst still being able to spot patterns
1041 2011-05-22 10:43:38 <deaf> ok thanks :)
1042 2011-05-22 10:43:40 <justmoon> what's the faucet's address again?
1043 2011-05-22 10:43:56 <TD> 15VjRaDX9zpbA8LVnbrCAFzrVzN7ixHNsC
1044 2011-05-22 10:44:00 <TD> it drains really fast these days
1045 2011-05-22 10:44:04 <TD> i sent 20 over there a few days ago
1046 2011-05-22 10:44:08 <justmoon> hmm
1047 2011-05-22 10:44:11 <justmoon> bots?
1048 2011-05-22 10:44:26 <TD> no, don't think so
1049 2011-05-22 10:44:31 * TD is a faucet admin
1050 2011-05-22 10:44:37 <TD> the gmails being used all look organic to me
1051 2011-05-22 10:44:42 <TD> just lots of interest these days
1052 2011-05-22 10:44:46 <justmoon> if it's real usage, I'll send 100 btc from the marketing fund
1053 2011-05-22 10:45:11 <TD> it looks real to me. if there's an attack it's taking care to stay below the radar.
1054 2011-05-22 10:45:23 <TD> and being mixed in with lots of real-looking traffic
1055 2011-05-22 10:46:05 theymos has joined
1056 2011-05-22 10:46:12 <TD> yeah, thanks. a donation from the marketing fund sounds reasonable
1057 2011-05-22 10:46:29 da2ce7 has joined
1058 2011-05-22 10:46:35 <theymos> Well, shit, I broke the forum, and I don't have enough access to fix it...
1059 2011-05-22 10:46:44 <TD> ah it was you :-)
1060 2011-05-22 10:46:45 <TD> hehe
1061 2011-05-22 10:46:58 <molecular> hehe
1062 2011-05-22 10:47:06 <theymos> I was trying to reset the board URL from https to http, but I must have accidentally changed some database settings.
1063 2011-05-22 10:47:11 <sipa> ow!
1064 2011-05-22 10:47:21 <molecular> why anyhow? too much load due to https?
1065 2011-05-22 10:47:45 <da2ce7> https is needed for those who access over TOR
1066 2011-05-22 10:48:57 <theymos> Mike mentioned that all URLs were being rewritten to https, which is not OK, since the cert is unsigned. This happens because of a bug in SMF. Satoshi said: "It's an accident waiting to happen if you ever submit that page without changing the https to http each time, that happens."
1067 2011-05-22 10:49:02 <molecular> but what's the harm in using it as board url?
1068 2011-05-22 10:49:12 <molecular> an, the cert
1069 2011-05-22 10:49:47 <molecular> what's the accident look like?
1070 2011-05-22 10:50:28 <TD> yeah well the actual problem is that some of the script/css links aren't using https
1071 2011-05-22 10:50:31 <TD> so you have mixed content
1072 2011-05-22 10:50:34 <TD> the bogus cert doesn't help though
1073 2011-05-22 10:50:53 <da2ce7> can we get a real cert for the subdomain?
1074 2011-05-22 10:51:00 johndoe0711 has joined
1075 2011-05-22 10:51:05 <theymos> I hope sirius and gavin are not on vacation, or I would feel really bad about breaking the forum...
1076 2011-05-22 10:51:15 <TD> gavin is on vacation
1077 2011-05-22 10:51:26 <theymos> He posted recently, so he's back.
1078 2011-05-22 10:51:32 <theymos> Unless he went away again?
1079 2011-05-22 10:52:02 <sipa> he has internet access
1080 2011-05-22 10:56:02 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1081 2011-05-22 10:56:49 diki has joined
1082 2011-05-22 10:57:18 <diki> Guys, what kind of CPU would one need for a pool?
1083 2011-05-22 10:57:35 <diki> or what would be the expected load for let's say 800 getworks/s
1084 2011-05-22 10:57:35 gomorrha has joined
1085 2011-05-22 10:57:36 <BlueMatt> da2ce7: I know we can, startssl supports them, but for some reason sirius still hasn't got around to doing that
1086 2011-05-22 10:58:07 <da2ce7> hmmm, sirius is a too busy admin.
1087 2011-05-22 10:58:22 <BlueMatt> yea
1088 2011-05-22 10:58:23 <da2ce7> we need an alt- bitcoin forum.
1089 2011-05-22 10:58:25 <diki> btw, forum down
1090 2011-05-22 10:58:36 <BlueMatt> diki: yep, theymos broke it
1091 2011-05-22 10:58:40 <diki> ??
1092 2011-05-22 10:58:45 <diki> it worked a minute ago
1093 2011-05-22 10:58:56 <BlueMatt> diki: open the logs of like 10 minutes ago ;)
1094 2011-05-22 10:59:07 <BlueMatt> <theymos> Well, shit, I broke the forum, and I don't have enough access to fix it...
1095 2011-05-22 10:59:15 nanotube has joined
1096 2011-05-22 10:59:30 <wumpus> he had enough access to kill it but not to fix it, that;s bad :p
1097 2011-05-22 10:59:38 <da2ce7> wb nanotube
1098 2011-05-22 10:59:46 <BlueMatt> devrandom1: ping, just taking a look at the downloader, looks really awsome
1099 2011-05-22 11:00:36 gomorrha has quit (Client Quit)
1100 2011-05-22 11:00:38 <theymos> Does jgarzik have access to the forum's server? I thought I read that he changed bitcoin.org once, though that might only be with the new SourceForge arrangement.
1101 2011-05-22 11:00:38 <da2ce7> is there any low-trust forum software... where the all the info on the server can be made public?
1102 2011-05-22 11:00:44 <diki> cause when you change db settings through the ACP, if they are wrong the connection is lost
1103 2011-05-22 11:00:52 <diki> he hasn't access to the FTP
1104 2011-05-22 11:00:54 <diki> or SSH
1105 2011-05-22 11:00:57 <BlueMatt> theymos: I dont think so, but I wouldnt know
1106 2011-05-22 11:01:16 gomorrha has joined
1107 2011-05-22 11:01:31 <wumpus> diki: yes makes sense
1108 2011-05-22 11:01:44 <diki> look at it this way, the mysql server is taking a big rest now
1109 2011-05-22 11:02:01 <diki> the cpu as well and the hdd
1110 2011-05-22 11:02:03 <BlueMatt> lol
1111 2011-05-22 11:02:13 <diki> thus lower temps wherever it is
1112 2011-05-22 11:02:18 <wumpus> now it will rust :p
1113 2011-05-22 11:02:28 <BlueMatt> I think its a vm somewhere...
1114 2011-05-22 11:02:35 <theymos> Anyone know sirius's email?
1115 2011-05-22 11:02:45 <wumpus> spiderwebs will clog the mysql server
1116 2011-05-22 11:03:24 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1117 2011-05-22 11:03:24 dissipate has joined
1118 2011-05-22 11:03:24 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
1119 2011-05-22 11:03:24 dissipate has joined
1120 2011-05-22 11:03:26 <diki> I am tempted to search my room for cockroaches...
1121 2011-05-22 11:03:45 <diki> last time one laid eggs near the refrigirator
1122 2011-05-22 11:03:56 <diki> and then hid under it
1123 2011-05-22 11:04:10 <diki> It died.
1124 2011-05-22 11:04:37 <sipa> sirius = malmi, right?
1125 2011-05-22 11:04:42 <sirius> yeh
1126 2011-05-22 11:04:58 <sipa> ah, in that case i have your e-mail :)
1127 2011-05-22 11:04:59 gribble has joined
1128 2011-05-22 11:05:15 <BlueMatt> hey, gribbles back ,,pet
1129 2011-05-22 11:05:19 <diki> for the sake of understanding, people should use their real username on the forum
1130 2011-05-22 11:05:22 <BlueMatt> ...or not
1131 2011-05-22 11:05:32 <diki> for an example, x2f is actually jgarzik
1132 2011-05-22 11:05:35 <BlueMatt> diki: TD started a thread about it
1133 2011-05-22 11:05:41 <diki> td?
1134 2011-05-22 11:05:45 <BlueMatt> my forum shown name is just "Matt Corallo"
1135 2011-05-22 11:05:49 <BlueMatt> TD==Mike Hearn
1136 2011-05-22 11:05:55 <BlueMatt> used to go by [mike]
1137 2011-05-22 11:06:03 <diki> cause it's freaking hard to know who is who
1138 2011-05-22 11:06:06 <BlueMatt> hes TD on here
1139 2011-05-22 11:06:23 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r7af6663 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Changed -f default to 30 to deal with Vista/7 having shitty performance - http://bit.ly/kWxJcY
1140 2011-05-22 11:06:35 <diki> i've never registered on a forum with my real name...
1141 2011-05-22 11:06:53 <BlueMatt> meh, I dont bother with internet privacy
1142 2011-05-22 11:06:56 <wumpus> it's not a good idea either
1143 2011-05-22 11:07:03 <BlueMatt> frankly I dont care if everyone knows my name/address/phone
1144 2011-05-22 11:07:07 <diki> well, it's easier for 4chan to find you
1145 2011-05-22 11:07:16 <sipa> oh noes
1146 2011-05-22 11:07:24 <BlueMatt> well, then Ill be sure not to piss off 4chan ;)
1147 2011-05-22 11:07:27 <da2ce7> have one private identity and one public... use your public one most of the time
1148 2011-05-22 11:07:34 <Namegduf> If I were to go anonymous I'd go properly anonymous.
1149 2011-05-22 11:07:35 trekdanne has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1150 2011-05-22 11:07:37 <wumpus> people will be able to find all your posts in search engines if they just know your name, and the info will linger along long beyond you'll be involved in the bitcoin project
1151 2011-05-22 11:07:46 <sirius> forum fix'd
1152 2011-05-22 11:07:54 <theymos> Thanks. Sorry for the trouble.
1153 2011-05-22 11:08:01 <Namegduf> This name is tied to my real name, and, well "fuck that shit" to anyone who has a problem with me speaking my mind.
1154 2011-05-22 11:08:04 <BlueMatt> sirius: thanks, any progress on the ssl cert?
1155 2011-05-22 11:08:25 <sirius> hmm I'll check the startssl thing now
1156 2011-05-22 11:08:26 <BlueMatt> I agree, if you do enough digging you could find my name anyway, so why not just go all out
1157 2011-05-22 11:08:31 <sipa> diki: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8954.0
1158 2011-05-22 11:08:42 <wumpus> it's a good idea to be more subtle about privacy on the internet
1159 2011-05-22 11:08:44 <wumpus> but heh, your loss
1160 2011-05-22 11:09:04 <BlueMatt> subtle? `whois bluematt.me` :)
1161 2011-05-22 11:09:07 neoeinstein__ has joined
1162 2011-05-22 11:09:20 <wumpus> that requires human effort
1163 2011-05-22 11:09:27 <BlueMatt> not hardly
1164 2011-05-22 11:09:32 <wumpus> privacy is mainly about the bots
1165 2011-05-22 11:09:36 <sipa> and gives a fake sense of anonimity as well
1166 2011-05-22 11:09:40 <BlueMatt> well thats true
1167 2011-05-22 11:10:05 mtrlt has joined
1168 2011-05-22 11:10:06 <Namegduf> My OpenID is at a domain which matches my last name and has my full name on the front page. :D
1169 2011-05-22 11:10:31 <wumpus> well be very proud of being so naive
1170 2011-05-22 11:10:34 <BlueMatt> the domain I use has no whois protection (on purpose) full name+address+phone number
1171 2011-05-22 11:10:49 neoeinstein has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1172 2011-05-22 11:10:53 gribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1173 2011-05-22 11:10:54 <diki> i am actually very tempted to install linux now, not a VM
1174 2011-05-22 11:11:00 <BlueMatt> yes
1175 2011-05-22 11:11:06 <BlueMatt> welcome to the light side
1176 2011-05-22 11:11:24 <diki> but not for permanency
1177 2011-05-22 11:11:35 <diki> just cause vm machine as a pool...
1178 2011-05-22 11:11:51 <wumpus> just do it :)
1179 2011-05-22 11:11:53 <diki> i have to give up a bit of ram for Win7
1180 2011-05-22 11:12:15 <diki> I wonder how much ram slush's pool uses up...
1181 2011-05-22 11:12:18 <BlueMatt> I typically have a win7 vm open 24/7, not that I use it much and sometimes an osx one
1182 2011-05-22 11:12:30 <Namegduf> wumpus: You mean everyone who does business on the Internet under their real name is naive? :P
1183 2011-05-22 11:12:31 <BlueMatt> but I have to reboot to dual boot into win7 for gaming
1184 2011-05-22 11:12:39 <diki> i've currently only added 340 for the VM ubuntu
1185 2011-05-22 11:12:45 * Namegduf does not make a habit of breaking laws
1186 2011-05-22 11:12:47 <wumpus> Namegduf: no, that's not true
1187 2011-05-22 11:12:49 <diki> but made a lot of optimizations
1188 2011-05-22 11:12:54 <diki> reduces ram usage
1189 2011-05-22 11:13:08 <diki> Switch to a lighter desktop environment
1190 2011-05-22 11:13:11 <wumpus> Namegduf: you can still do business using your real name, that doesn't mean that every opinion and post you ever make should be availbale when someone queries on your real name
1191 2011-05-22 11:13:12 <diki> *switched
1192 2011-05-22 11:13:27 <wumpus> Namegduf: that can even make business harder if the one you're doing business with doesn't agree with all of your views
1193 2011-05-22 11:13:39 <Namegduf> wumpus: I'm not particularly fussed, as per http://xkcd.com/137/
1194 2011-05-22 11:13:58 gribble has joined
1195 2011-05-22 11:14:35 <wumpus> Namegduf: yeah, it's easy to be a fuck that shit macho on the internet
1196 2011-05-22 11:14:46 <Namegduf> wumpus: Well that's what we're discussing
1197 2011-05-22 11:14:50 <Namegduf> So there we go
1198 2011-05-22 11:14:50 <wumpus> Namegduf: anyway it's your own choice
1199 2011-05-22 11:14:58 <wumpus> I don't care what you do really
1200 2011-05-22 11:18:34 <diki> well, time to start coding the site
1201 2011-05-22 11:18:48 chmod755 has joined
1202 2011-05-22 11:19:12 <diki> It will be a familiar design for those that may have seen it somewhere >:]
1203 2011-05-22 11:19:20 gribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1204 2011-05-22 11:20:20 gribble has joined
1205 2011-05-22 11:20:26 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1206 2011-05-22 11:20:36 <diki> Did i mention i have a cat?
1207 2011-05-22 11:21:08 <wumpus> did it type for you?
1208 2011-05-22 11:22:12 Nesetalis is now known as Nes-asleep
1209 2011-05-22 11:29:28 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
1210 2011-05-22 11:31:52 endian7000 has quit (Quit: endian7000)
1211 2011-05-22 11:33:07 fetokun has joined
1212 2011-05-22 11:38:32 <sipa> wallet.cpp:956: error: prototype for âbool CWallet::BackupWallet(const std::string&)â does not match any in class âCWalletâ
1213 2011-05-22 11:38:35 <sipa> wallet.h:134: error: candidate is: void CWallet::BackupWallet(const std::string&)
1214 2011-05-22 11:39:23 * sipa slaps C++ error messages with a large something
1215 2011-05-22 11:40:20 <sipa> oh, void vs bool, nvm!
1216 2011-05-22 11:40:24 * sipa slaps sipa
1217 2011-05-22 11:45:14 theboos has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1218 2011-05-22 11:50:09 DukeOfURL has joined
1219 2011-05-22 11:51:23 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1220 2011-05-22 11:57:04 Stellar has joined
1221 2011-05-22 11:57:49 slush has joined
1222 2011-05-22 12:01:57 lumos has joined
1223 2011-05-22 12:04:36 justmoon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1224 2011-05-22 12:14:12 jivvz has joined
1225 2011-05-22 12:18:45 deaf has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1226 2011-05-22 12:19:02 sprash has joined
1227 2011-05-22 12:21:42 <sipa> forum down again?
1228 2011-05-22 12:22:11 <sprash> not for me
1229 2011-05-22 12:23:38 <BlueMatt> nope
1230 2011-05-22 12:25:15 <sipa> it's up again
1231 2011-05-22 12:26:40 eao has joined
1232 2011-05-22 12:28:14 soossii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1233 2011-05-22 12:28:15 <diki> it seems i did not overthink the mysql table situation
1234 2011-05-22 12:28:23 brooss has quit (Quit: Rage Quit)
1235 2011-05-22 12:28:32 <diki> 400 users on a pool means 100,000+ inserts per hour
1236 2011-05-22 12:28:39 <diki> serious optimization is needed
1237 2011-05-22 12:28:59 <Diablo-D3> diki: lol, whos pool is this
1238 2011-05-22 12:29:11 <Diablo-D3> 100k inserts per hour is fucking cheap
1239 2011-05-22 12:29:14 <diki> Mine
1240 2011-05-22 12:29:20 <diki> i want to be prepared diablo
1241 2011-05-22 12:29:20 <Diablo-D3> Ive been coding my pool to handle several million an hour
1242 2011-05-22 12:29:22 ansi has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1243 2011-05-22 12:29:33 <diki> what engine should i use for the table?
1244 2011-05-22 12:29:46 <Diablo-D3> I do not support mysql.
1245 2011-05-22 12:30:02 <diki> you should, it's widely used.
1246 2011-05-22 12:31:10 <sprash> Deflation is bad. This problem has to be solved.
1247 2011-05-22 12:31:16 <wumpus> don't do premature optimization diki
1248 2011-05-22 12:31:31 <wumpus> once you get bottlenecks, you can figure out how to solve them
1249 2011-05-22 12:31:33 <diki> the table could lock up lol
1250 2011-05-22 12:32:00 <wumpus> also you might not even need mysql, you could use something like mongodb which is faster and simpler
1251 2011-05-22 12:32:56 <diki> pushpoold has support for mysql,sqlite and postgresql
1252 2011-05-22 12:33:02 eao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1253 2011-05-22 12:33:06 <Diablo-D3> diki: um, mysql is extremely fucking slow
1254 2011-05-22 12:33:08 <diki> I tried sqlite, but....i was told it's a bad idea
1255 2011-05-22 12:33:12 <Diablo-D3> I do not support broken software ever.
1256 2011-05-22 12:33:21 <Diablo-D3> sqlite would not be useful for a 400 user pool
1257 2011-05-22 12:33:26 <Diablo-D3> for a 4 user pool? sure.
1258 2011-05-22 12:33:37 <lupine_85> sqlite3 is an extremely bad idea given some of the schemas I've seen flying around here ;)
1259 2011-05-22 12:33:39 <wumpus> sqlite is not adviced for big deployments
1260 2011-05-22 12:33:44 <x5x> diki, write a custom daemon that uses google-densehash
1261 2011-05-22 12:34:02 <diki> no thanks, i am not that experienced to write anything other than a calculator :P
1262 2011-05-22 12:34:31 <Diablo-D3> lupine_85: yeah, wtf is with people here
1263 2011-05-22 12:34:43 <Diablo-D3> YEAH IM GOING TO CODE A WBESITE ,AND IVE NEVER DONE IT BEFORE HERP DERP
1264 2011-05-22 12:34:49 <Diablo-D3> leave the coding to the people who arent morons
1265 2011-05-22 12:34:57 <x5x> srsly
1266 2011-05-22 12:35:06 <BlueMatt> wumpus: mongodb...wtf is wrong with you?
1267 2011-05-22 12:35:11 <diki> coding of website-no prob
1268 2011-05-22 12:35:20 <wumpus> just that you haven't done something before doesn't mean you're a moron... on the other hand, worry about things that matter not what mysql table type to use
1269 2011-05-22 12:35:22 <lupine_85> Diablo-D3, lack of education, I guess
1270 2011-05-22 12:35:24 <wumpus> BlueMatt: huh?
1271 2011-05-22 12:35:32 <diki> writing something in C/C++-cannot
1272 2011-05-22 12:35:40 <Diablo-D3> using mysql at all is always the wrong option
1273 2011-05-22 12:35:48 <BlueMatt> how the fuck do you think mongodb is a good idea?
1274 2011-05-22 12:35:49 <Diablo-D3> it simply can't handle high load situations without shitting itself
1275 2011-05-22 12:35:58 <wumpus> BlueMatt: can you talk normally?
1276 2011-05-22 12:36:00 <Diablo-D3> mongodb is.... higher up than mysql.
1277 2011-05-22 12:36:04 <x5x> diki, just mmap() a big file and write() records to it
1278 2011-05-22 12:36:14 <Diablo-D3> no, I agree with Matt here
1279 2011-05-22 12:36:21 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: and, mongodb is still a terrible idea
1280 2011-05-22 12:36:27 <Diablo-D3> who the fuck seriously thinks mongodb is a good idea
1281 2011-05-22 12:36:42 <wumpus> in my experience it works very well
1282 2011-05-22 12:36:49 <BlueMatt> lol
1283 2011-05-22 12:36:53 <Diablo-D3> your experience is small.
1284 2011-05-22 12:37:01 <BlueMatt> In my experience, every db works well
1285 2011-05-22 12:37:04 <wumpus> cut the ad hominem attacks
1286 2011-05-22 12:37:05 <x5x> diki, just make a google app and use bigtable
1287 2011-05-22 12:37:14 * Diablo-D3 smacks x5x
1288 2011-05-22 12:37:20 <x5x> ad hominem, power word!
1289 2011-05-22 12:37:24 <wumpus> I've graduated from kindergarten a long time ago
1290 2011-05-22 12:37:31 <Diablo-D3> I should work on my pool more today
1291 2011-05-22 12:37:35 <BlueMatt> so you've moved beyond mongodb?
1292 2011-05-22 12:37:47 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt: owe me a new keyboard you do
1293 2011-05-22 12:37:48 <wumpus> do something useful instead of being an internet macho
1294 2011-05-22 12:37:55 <lupine_85> is there really much need to *store* the proofs of work ?
1295 2011-05-22 12:38:05 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1296 2011-05-22 12:38:18 <Diablo-D3> lupine_85: in the table that stores the actual record of the share? no
1297 2011-05-22 12:38:19 Cusipzzz has joined
1298 2011-05-22 12:38:25 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: meh, Id assume you have a bunch of extra keyboards with how much you get pissed ;)
1299 2011-05-22 12:38:31 <lupine_85> personally, I'd be counting them, and not worrying too much if I lost a few seconds worth of data
1300 2011-05-22 12:38:32 <x5x> wumpus, for bonus points name another logic fallacy
1301 2011-05-22 12:39:01 <BlueMatt> wumpus: Im sorry you feel that way, but it really doesnt change the problem here...mongodb sucks
1302 2011-05-22 12:39:03 <BlueMatt> period
1303 2011-05-22 12:39:11 <wumpus> BlueMatt: no it doesn't, period
1304 2011-05-22 12:39:22 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: surprisingly, my keyboards only die from quake
1305 2011-05-22 12:39:28 <BlueMatt> and when your argument is "its good in my book", "your book sucks" is a perfectly valuable argument
1306 2011-05-22 12:39:33 <Diablo-D3> I had a logitech beefy motherfucker built in the early 90s...
1307 2011-05-22 12:39:36 <Diablo-D3> spacebar went first
1308 2011-05-22 12:39:38 <Diablo-D3> then wasd.
1309 2011-05-22 12:39:38 <x5x> Diablo-D3, what about tsunamis ?
1310 2011-05-22 12:39:40 <wumpus> no, it isn't
1311 2011-05-22 12:39:45 <Diablo-D3> died after 12 years of glorious use
1312 2011-05-22 12:39:52 <BlueMatt> wumpus: well then neither is "its good in my book"
1313 2011-05-22 12:40:02 <wumpus> whatever, go away
1314 2011-05-22 12:40:04 <Diablo-D3> btw I agree with bluematt here
1315 2011-05-22 12:40:19 <Diablo-D3> wumpus, you have zero experience with high traffic sites that eat databases
1316 2011-05-22 12:40:32 <Diablo-D3> mysql has not, and never will be, a viable option.
1317 2011-05-22 12:40:33 <wumpus> if you have anything useful to discuss it's ok, but i'm not here for "XXX sucks"
1318 2011-05-22 12:40:44 defel has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1319 2011-05-22 12:40:56 <wumpus> all technologies have their uses somewhere, it's all much more subtle than XXX is good YYY sucks
1320 2011-05-22 12:41:00 <lupine_85> Diablo-D3, as it happens, I have experience with massively high-volume websites that depend utterly on mysql, and especially mysql stored procedures
1321 2011-05-22 12:41:02 <lupine_85> what a mess
1322 2011-05-22 12:41:19 <Diablo-D3> lupine_85: dear god, I feel sorry for you
1323 2011-05-22 12:41:25 <wumpus> and trying to out-dick each other based on how incredibly large your experience is doesn't change anything factual
1324 2011-05-22 12:41:42 <lupine_85> *shrug* the clients pay well and if all the data goes boom, it's their business that suffers, not ours ;)
1325 2011-05-22 12:41:46 DukeOfURL has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1326 2011-05-22 12:41:49 <BlueMatt> then your only argument for mdb so far is also invalid ;)
1327 2011-05-22 12:41:52 <wumpus> go lupine_85, ignore the kids
1328 2011-05-22 12:41:54 <Namegduf> wumpus: He who proposes a piece of software be used is generally responsible for a coherent argument that it's useful
1329 2011-05-22 12:42:01 <Diablo-D3> lupine_85: if any site has grown to the need of using stored procedures (ie, beyond named queries), they've done it wrong.
1330 2011-05-22 12:42:02 <Namegduf> wumpus: Typically
1331 2011-05-22 12:42:17 DukeOfURL has joined
1332 2011-05-22 12:42:24 <lupine_85> internally use used to use mysql, but we're really looking at a move to postgres
1333 2011-05-22 12:42:57 <wumpus> Namegduf: as I said, mongodb is unreasonabaly fast
1334 2011-05-22 12:43:15 <lupine_85> it has its places, I guess, but anywhere medium to big money is involved, isn't
1335 2011-05-22 12:43:19 <wumpus> Namegduf: it simply mmaps all the data
1336 2011-05-22 12:43:45 <lupine_85> sounds exciting
1337 2011-05-22 12:44:04 <wumpus> Namegduf: as the guy was looking for something fast, I proposed it, I did not mean to start a holy war about databases, as honestly I don't give a shit about what's people's favourite db fetish
1338 2011-05-22 12:44:06 <BlueMatt> its nicely fast, yes, but in terms of trusting critical data to mdb and using it in very large-load situations its just not a good idea
1339 2011-05-22 12:44:06 <Namegduf> wumpus: I suspect many DB systems use mmap
1340 2011-05-22 12:44:36 <lupine_85> I do have a massive love affair for redis, I have to say
1341 2011-05-22 12:44:50 <wumpus> BlueMatt: who was talking about trusting critical data at all?
1342 2011-05-22 12:44:50 <lupine_85> good enough for groupon, etc
1343 2011-05-22 12:45:12 <BlueMatt> wumpus: I would want my db to never shit itself, period on any data...
1344 2011-05-22 12:45:14 <wumpus> it was just for a miner inserting many records per hour, not ISS life support
1345 2011-05-22 12:45:24 <Diablo-D3> lupine_85: I <3 postgresql
1346 2011-05-22 12:45:39 <lupine_85> it seems solid, but I can't really say I love it
1347 2011-05-22 12:45:49 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1348 2011-05-22 12:46:03 <wumpus> BlueMatt: redundancy is the only thing that can help you in that case, the hardware might still shit itself, and all software has bugs
1349 2011-05-22 12:46:10 <Diablo-D3> I'd rather have postgresql than oracle.
1350 2011-05-22 12:46:22 <BlueMatt> yes but some software has less bugs than others ;P
1351 2011-05-22 12:46:32 <wumpus> that's incredibly hard to quantify
1352 2011-05-22 12:46:58 <BlueMatt> rate of it randomly crashing/rate of people bitching about losing their data is a pretty good measure there
1353 2011-05-22 12:47:14 <lupine_85> course it's not. lines of code vs. hours said code has been run
1354 2011-05-22 12:47:22 <lupine_85> (bugs per LoC is a constant)
1355 2011-05-22 12:47:27 <wumpus> not, it's not a constant
1356 2011-05-22 12:47:31 <Namegduf> s/hard to quantify/hard to quantify usefully/
1357 2011-05-22 12:47:52 <lupine_85> it is at the point where the code is written, oddly enough
1358 2011-05-22 12:47:59 <BlueMatt> hard to quantify: yes, easy to quantify usefully, because all that really matters is if the bugs actually effect you
1359 2011-05-22 12:48:21 <Diablo-D3> [08:38:45] <wumpus> it was just for a miner inserting many records per hour, not ISS life support
1360 2011-05-22 12:48:23 <Namegduf> BlueMatt: Ideally you want to quantify it before finding out if any bugs hit you while you're using it
1361 2011-05-22 12:48:23 <wumpus> why would it be a constant, also bugs are usually introduced retrospectively by people assuming some piece of otherwise correct code does something else than it really does
1362 2011-05-22 12:48:29 <Diablo-D3> yes, but why write shitty code and run it on shitty systems?
1363 2011-05-22 12:48:31 <lupine_85> *sigh*
1364 2011-05-22 12:48:32 <Diablo-D3> its just pointless.
1365 2011-05-22 12:48:41 bill_h has quit (Quit: leaving)
1366 2011-05-22 12:48:48 <Diablo-D3> programmers, typically, have some level of pride.
1367 2011-05-22 12:48:54 <lupine_85> wumpus, it's been discovered to be a constant. when you add new code to fix a bug in old code, that new code also meets that constant
1368 2011-05-22 12:48:59 <BlueMatt> meh, I dont feel like discussing this anyway, I agree with wumpus that this should never have started
1369 2011-05-22 12:49:06 <BlueMatt> agree to disagree
1370 2011-05-22 12:49:13 <Diablo-D3> it wont matter anyhow
1371 2011-05-22 12:49:18 <Diablo-D3> once Im done my miner, pushpool is dead.
1372 2011-05-22 12:49:27 <lupine_85> it doesn't even matter that much which language you're writing in. bugs per LoC is still pretty constnat
1373 2011-05-22 12:49:44 <Diablo-D3> lupine_85: not quite
1374 2011-05-22 12:49:47 <wumpus> lupine_85: it obviously also depends on the programmer
1375 2011-05-22 12:49:47 <Diablo-D3> its constant per real LoC
1376 2011-05-22 12:50:02 <Diablo-D3> C requires more code to do your average task than, say, python does
1377 2011-05-22 12:50:17 <Diablo-D3> C lurvs boilerplate
1378 2011-05-22 12:50:17 <Namegduf> lupine_85: What is the constant, then?
1379 2011-05-22 12:50:25 <Diablo-D3> Namegduf: depends on the coder.
1380 2011-05-22 12:50:26 <sipa> 42
1381 2011-05-22 12:50:26 <wumpus> lupine_85: I agree writing less lines of code means introducing less bugs, though
1382 2011-05-22 12:50:34 <Namegduf> Diablo-D3: That's not really a constant
1383 2011-05-22 12:50:36 <Diablo-D3> not everyone is nenolod
1384 2011-05-22 12:50:42 <wumpus> lupine_85: so smaller simpler programs obviously win
1385 2011-05-22 12:50:47 <Namegduf> Diablo-D3: Thus my conclusion that it isn't a constant.
1386 2011-05-22 12:50:51 <Namegduf> And the LoC thing is stupid, too.
1387 2011-05-22 12:50:55 <Diablo-D3> yeah
1388 2011-05-22 12:50:58 <Namegduf> Languages in which each line is simpler and you have more lines
1389 2011-05-22 12:51:00 <Diablo-D3> LoC is not a useful measurement
1390 2011-05-22 12:51:05 <Diablo-D3> its not even a useful measurement of dicksize
1391 2011-05-22 12:51:07 <Namegduf> Will have fewer bugs per LoC but more lines of code
1392 2011-05-22 12:51:23 <lupine_85> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2898571/basis-for-claim-that-the-number-of-bugs-per-line-of-code-is-constant-regardless-o :)
1393 2011-05-22 12:51:39 <Diablo-D3> if I can do your task in 20k LoC less code and not have to write 3/4 of the remaining code because Im using existing frameworks effectively, my dick size is infinite compared to yours
1394 2011-05-22 12:52:06 <Namegduf> lupine_85: The question is unanswered
1395 2011-05-22 12:52:14 <Namegduf> So, um, dunno what the smile is about
1396 2011-05-22 12:52:22 <Namegduf> There's an "answer" giving a *possible* source
1397 2011-05-22 12:52:31 <lupine_85> yes indeed, but it bumps up against a variety of other stuff that's worth reading
1398 2011-05-22 12:52:31 <Diablo-D3> NIH is an extremely horrible thing
1399 2011-05-22 12:52:34 <Namegduf> In the specific scenario of safety-related system design
1400 2011-05-22 12:52:49 <wumpus> which is an incredibly limited scope
1401 2011-05-22 12:53:01 <Diablo-D3> Namegduf: well lets be fair here
1402 2011-05-22 12:53:22 <Diablo-D3> due to the nature of the internet in the modern day... ALL code needs to be written in security minded ways
1403 2011-05-22 12:53:23 <Namegduf> Diablo-D3: Safety-related stuff is designed and written different, assuming it's done right
1404 2011-05-22 12:53:30 <Diablo-D3> and, essentially, be paranoid as fuck
1405 2011-05-22 12:53:34 <Namegduf> Diablo-D3: Security-minded is not safety-related
1406 2011-05-22 12:53:35 <Diablo-D3> er, needs to be
1407 2011-05-22 12:53:45 <wumpus> indeed Namegduf
1408 2011-05-22 12:53:50 lumos has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1409 2011-05-22 12:53:54 <Diablo-D3> Namegduf: the difference is just one magnitude of paranoia imo
1410 2011-05-22 12:53:55 <Namegduf> Safety related is anything up to "define formal semantics, prove it meets them"
1411 2011-05-22 12:54:08 <Diablo-D3> safety stuff just PROVES it
1412 2011-05-22 12:54:13 <Namegduf> Diablo-D3: I don't really think "magnitudes of paranoia" is a useful metric
1413 2011-05-22 12:54:24 <Namegduf> My point is that a rule true when such techniques are applied
1414 2011-05-22 12:54:32 <Diablo-D3> security minded stuff defines more generic semantics and proves it more softly
1415 2011-05-22 12:54:36 <Namegduf> Is not essentially going to hold to more general design and implementation techniques
1416 2011-05-22 12:54:38 <wumpus> security means restricting what actors can do, it's something completely different from safety
1417 2011-05-22 12:55:00 <Diablo-D3> safety is restricting what outside actors not originally considered in the problem can do
1418 2011-05-22 12:55:25 <Diablo-D3> its just levels of paranoia.
1419 2011-05-22 12:55:36 <Namegduf> No, it isn't.
1420 2011-05-22 12:55:45 <Diablo-D3> good code should be considerably paranoid over nonintended uses or input.
1421 2011-05-22 12:55:46 <wumpus> safety is not about paranoia, it's about having incredibly well-defined semantics
1422 2011-05-22 12:55:48 <Namegduf> Safety is ensuring that programmer error doesn't happen.
1423 2011-05-22 12:55:55 <Namegduf> Because it could kill someone.
1424 2011-05-22 12:55:58 * diki ...
1425 2011-05-22 12:55:58 <Diablo-D3> Namegduf: thats just increasingly paranoid.
1426 2011-05-22 12:56:05 <Diablo-D3> security: dont trust anyone
1427 2011-05-22 12:56:11 <Diablo-D3> safety: dont trust anyone, not even the programmer
1428 2011-05-22 12:56:19 <wumpus> safety is not about trust
1429 2011-05-22 12:56:20 <wumpus> man
1430 2011-05-22 12:56:23 <diki> Good thing i realised these stuff before doing anything irational
1431 2011-05-22 12:56:30 <Namegduf> Diablo-D3: I think you're demonstrating that your measure of paranoia doesn't actually map to anything useful.
1432 2011-05-22 12:56:40 * Diablo-D3 shrugs.
1433 2011-05-22 12:56:45 <Diablo-D3> Its served me well thus far.
1434 2011-05-22 12:56:47 <Namegduf> Diablo-D3: Things that affect useful things are "approaches used to designing, writing the code"
1435 2011-05-22 12:57:05 <Diablo-D3> Namegduf: this is why I no longer use C
1436 2011-05-22 12:57:19 <wumpus> diki: let's do something irrational :P
1437 2011-05-22 12:57:33 <Diablo-D3> having a proven language implementation handle increasingly larger layers of boilerplate code cuts down on bugs per LoC.
1438 2011-05-22 12:57:39 <Diablo-D3> and thus we're back at where we started
1439 2011-05-22 12:58:38 <wumpus> yeah, you can now claim the original 'my e-dick is longest' certificate
1440 2011-05-22 13:05:24 Rudycoin has joined
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1442 2011-05-22 13:08:51 BERRI has joined
1443 2011-05-22 13:13:20 Tritonio_GR has joined
1444 2011-05-22 13:16:29 Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1446 2011-05-22 13:16:49 Titeuf_87 has joined
1447 2011-05-22 13:18:25 <sirius> the forum cert should work now
1448 2011-05-22 13:18:54 krekbwoy has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1449 2011-05-22 13:19:05 <wumpus> cool sirius! let's try
1450 2011-05-22 13:19:29 <wumpus> verified by: startcom ltd.
1451 2011-05-22 13:19:30 <wumpus> yup
1452 2011-05-22 13:23:52 Enchilada has joined
1453 2011-05-22 13:25:58 <diki> so Diablo, how much ram do you think an average pool would use up(mysql,apache with all its stuff and the pool software)?
1454 2011-05-22 13:26:18 <Diablo-D3> dunno, because my pool wont be using mysql or apache.
1455 2011-05-22 13:26:27 <diki> Apache=for website?
1456 2011-05-22 13:28:05 <diki> I'm gonna try and run it on my VM. Running ubuntu with some minor ram optimization with only 360 tot ram(low, i know, but otherwise Win7 is gonna start bottlenecking the hdd)
1457 2011-05-22 13:28:22 <Diablo-D3> why would I need apache for the website?
1458 2011-05-22 13:28:32 <diki> then someo ther software?
1459 2011-05-22 13:28:35 <diki> *some
1460 2011-05-22 13:28:52 * diki failed at writing..
1461 2011-05-22 13:29:33 <Diablo-D3> I use Java, young padawan.
1462 2011-05-22 13:30:09 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1463 2011-05-22 13:30:13 <wumpus> I don't think you should be worried aboutmemory usage before even starting to write something
1464 2011-05-22 13:30:19 <diki> Oh, so JSP?
1465 2011-05-22 13:30:19 <wumpus> you can always switch http servers later
1466 2011-05-22 13:30:35 <wumpus> so if you know apache just go with apache
1467 2011-05-22 13:30:46 m00p has joined
1468 2011-05-22 13:30:53 <diki> I've been using apache and php and mysql since like 2007
1469 2011-05-22 13:31:19 <wumpus> then that's the best option for you
1470 2011-05-22 13:31:21 <diki> i've never owned any websites so that may not give me any experience at all, but i'm used to php
1471 2011-05-22 13:31:34 <wumpus> if you want to actually get something done
1472 2011-05-22 13:32:21 <diki> Diablo, do you have a formula for calculating total pool hash rate?
1473 2011-05-22 13:32:37 <diki> Actually, that was a stupid question, yes, you do
1474 2011-05-22 13:33:02 <sipa> diki: look at number of blocks per time unit, and multiply with difficulty*2^48/65535
1475 2011-05-22 13:33:29 <diki> don't you mean number of shares?
1476 2011-05-22 13:33:37 Tritonio_GR has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1477 2011-05-22 13:34:50 <sipa> oh, sorry, pool hash rate
1478 2011-05-22 13:34:50 <mtrlt> most pools actually give a target of 2^224-1, and not diff 1
1479 2011-05-22 13:35:00 <mtrlt> i've seen at least slush and eligius do that
1480 2011-05-22 13:35:04 <sipa> indeed
1481 2011-05-22 13:35:12 <diki> so diff 1 is not a good idea?
1482 2011-05-22 13:35:17 <sipa> diki: for pools is shares/time*2^32
1483 2011-05-22 13:35:20 <mtrlt> it's almost the same
1484 2011-05-22 13:35:33 <diki> can you convert 2^32 to a more readable number?
1485 2011-05-22 13:35:40 <diki> I have no idea what it should be
1486 2011-05-22 13:35:41 <sipa> ;;calc 2^32
1487 2011-05-22 13:35:41 <gribble> 2^32 = 4,294,967,296
1488 2011-05-22 13:35:43 <mtrlt> 2^32 is the most readable form of that number
1489 2011-05-22 13:35:49 <mtrlt> or 0x100000000
1490 2011-05-22 13:36:26 <diki> and by "divided by time" you mean?
1491 2011-05-22 13:36:37 <mtrlt> time is in seconds
1492 2011-05-22 13:36:41 <diki> Unix time?
1493 2011-05-22 13:36:48 <mtrlt> shares per time
1494 2011-05-22 13:36:50 <mtrlt> where time is in seconds
1495 2011-05-22 13:37:17 <mtrlt> for example 1000 shares in 20 seconds. 1000/20*2^32
1496 2011-05-22 13:37:34 <sipa> so eg. you look at the number of shares in the past hour, divide by 3600 (seconds in an hour), and multiply with 4294.967296 to get speed in Mhash/s
1497 2011-05-22 13:37:58 <diki> So in slush's case it's 30 mins?
1498 2011-05-22 13:38:11 <diki> he goes back to the share from 30 mins ago to the one now ?
1499 2011-05-22 13:38:31 <mtrlt> you can use whatever time you have
1500 2011-05-22 13:38:36 <mtrlt> whatever time you want*
1501 2011-05-22 13:38:39 <diki> time() is more common
1502 2011-05-22 13:38:43 <sipa> slush uses the whole past round
1503 2011-05-22 13:38:45 <mtrlt> you don't understand
1504 2011-05-22 13:38:55 <diki> yes i understand
1505 2011-05-22 13:39:02 <diki> my point was storing the time in Unix format
1506 2011-05-22 13:39:04 <mtrlt> as long as the time is in seconds
1507 2011-05-22 13:39:13 <diki> i.e all the seconds that have passed since Jan 1970
1508 2011-05-22 13:39:19 <sipa> doesn't matter
1509 2011-05-22 13:39:24 <sipa> it's about time intervals
1510 2011-05-22 13:39:26 <mtrlt> that time has nothing to do with pool hashrate calculations
1511 2011-05-22 13:39:26 <sipa> not absolute time
1512 2011-05-22 13:40:11 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1513 2011-05-22 13:41:06 <diki> No, i am wondering how to store the time when a share is inserted in the table
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1516 2011-05-22 13:41:26 <mtrlt> oh so now you're wondering that
1517 2011-05-22 13:41:30 <mtrlt> use unix time or whatever
1518 2011-05-22 13:41:34 <sipa> just use your datanases' native time format
1519 2011-05-22 13:41:40 <sipa> *database
1520 2011-05-22 13:42:29 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1521 2011-05-22 13:43:13 <wumpus> but make sure that you use a current-timezone-indifferent format (preferably UTC), so that you can move your server to another timezone without problems
1522 2011-05-22 13:44:55 <diki> i am GMT+2
1523 2011-05-22 13:45:08 <diki> Tbh i've never been good with timezones.
1524 2011-05-22 13:45:23 <sipa> doesn't matter wht timezone you are
1525 2011-05-22 13:45:57 <wumpus> unix timestamps are fine for this, they are always in UTC
1526 2011-05-22 13:46:00 <Namegduf> UNIX time if the DB has no time format, its time format if it does, don't store timezones unless you actually need them for some function.
1527 2011-05-22 13:46:32 <diki> you mean, the time should be in sync with what is shown on http://blockexplorer.com/
1528 2011-05-22 13:46:50 <diki> the same timezone etc..
1529 2011-05-22 13:47:11 <sipa> why would it?
1530 2011-05-22 13:47:26 AStove has quit ()
1531 2011-05-22 13:47:27 <sipa> blockexplorer.com is in no way special to the bitcoin network
1532 2011-05-22 13:48:05 <diki> a raw block has this in itself ""time":1306071440,"
1533 2011-05-22 13:48:08 <diki> that is unix time
1534 2011-05-22 13:48:24 <sipa> yes it is
1535 2011-05-22 13:48:35 <diki> I am going to store it as such as well
1536 2011-05-22 13:48:41 <sipa> go ahead
1537 2011-05-22 13:48:48 <sipa> what's the problem?
1538 2011-05-22 13:48:51 <wumpus> yes that's probably safest if you don't know what you're doing :)
1539 2011-05-22 13:49:12 <wumpus> and also if you do
1540 2011-05-22 13:50:02 <diki> if i do?
1541 2011-05-22 13:51:16 <wumpus> never mind, just go ahead
1542 2011-05-22 13:52:13 <diki> In pushpool, there is this piece of code if (*json_result)
1543 2011-05-22 13:52:14 <diki> applog(LOG_INFO, "PROOF-OF-WORK found");
1544 2011-05-22 13:52:24 <diki> Would that be a valid block ?
1545 2011-05-22 13:52:45 <diki> as i want after that applog to make a query to db, and insert it into a blocks table
1546 2011-05-22 13:55:26 ezl has joined
1547 2011-05-22 13:57:23 <diki> ;;bc,calc 2^224-1
1548 2011-05-22 13:57:24 <gribble> Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
1549 2011-05-22 13:57:35 <diki> ;;calc 2^224-1
1550 2011-05-22 13:57:35 <gribble> (2^224) - 1 = 2.69599467 * 10^(67)
1551 2011-05-22 13:58:25 <diki> ;;calc 2^224
1552 2011-05-22 13:58:25 <gribble> 2^224 = 2.69599467 * 10^(67)
1553 2011-05-22 14:00:30 <diki> 10^67 according to google is 1.0*10^67...what the hell?
1554 2011-05-22 14:00:52 Rudycoin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1555 2011-05-22 14:00:54 <Sami345> diki, why not?
1556 2011-05-22 14:01:29 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1557 2011-05-22 14:01:30 <diki> then how much is 10^67?
1558 2011-05-22 14:01:39 <mtrlt> what?
1559 2011-05-22 14:01:48 <wumpus> a 1 with 67 0's
1560 2011-05-22 14:01:48 <Sami345> it's 10^67
1561 2011-05-22 14:01:55 <mtrlt> do you know what x^y means
1562 2011-05-22 14:01:58 <wumpus> aka a fucking lot
1563 2011-05-22 14:02:14 <mtrlt> how much maths do you know, exactly? :P
1564 2011-05-22 14:02:23 <diki> not much...never been my strong side
1565 2011-05-22 14:02:26 <sacarlson> it there a standard currency code for bitcoin -testnet coins?
1566 2011-05-22 14:02:38 <wumpus> TST :p
1567 2011-05-22 14:02:43 <sipa> tnBTC
1568 2011-05-22 14:02:49 <Sami345> 10^67 = 1
1569 2011-05-22 14:02:49 <Sami345> 16:51 < diki> ;;calc 2^224-1
1570 2011-05-22 14:03:00 <Sami345> 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
1571 2011-05-22 14:03:07 <diki> i am just trying to figure out slush's diff
1572 2011-05-22 14:03:14 <diki> and what diff i should use
1573 2011-05-22 14:03:22 <mtrlt> diff 2^224-1
1574 2011-05-22 14:03:25 <sacarlson> sipa wumpus: I guess if I have a choice I'll take tnBTC
1575 2011-05-22 14:03:33 <mtrlt> diki: do you even know hexadecimal?
1576 2011-05-22 14:03:40 <diki> No
1577 2011-05-22 14:03:41 <wumpus> sacarlson: yea, tnBTC is better, I was just kidding
1578 2011-05-22 14:03:49 <mtrlt> then go study maths for a month and then come back
1579 2011-05-22 14:04:00 <sipa> slush's difficulty is 65535/65536
1580 2011-05-22 14:04:01 <wumpus> I don't think a currency code for the testnet makes that much sense, it's play money
1581 2011-05-22 14:04:12 <sacarlson> wumpus: that's ok yours had 3 leters so it was considered
1582 2011-05-22 14:04:15 <mtrlt> sipa: what do you mean
1583 2011-05-22 14:04:31 <mtrlt> sipa: oh 0.99something :P
1584 2011-05-22 14:04:33 <diki> i know values in memory are stored in that format...but anything other..
1585 2011-05-22 14:05:41 <sacarlson> wumpus: i guess one more thing I would need is a tnBTC flag symbol should I make one or does someone already have one?
1586 2011-05-22 14:05:49 <mtrlt> diki: you have a lot to learn
1587 2011-05-22 14:06:12 <wumpus> sacarlson: I don't think one exists
1588 2011-05-22 14:06:19 <diki> mt-no one was born an Einstein :P
1589 2011-05-22 14:06:40 <wumpus> sacarlson: maybe a flag with a bug or something :)
1590 2011-05-22 14:06:44 <mtrlt> yes but don't think for a second that einstein never did nothing to get where he did
1591 2011-05-22 14:06:59 <sacarlson> wumpus: ok I'll make a crapy 16X16 flag , ya a bug that can't be hard to find
1592 2011-05-22 14:07:06 Rudycoin has joined
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1594 2011-05-22 14:07:35 <sacarlson> wumpus: I think a bug with a cross through it for debuging
1595 2011-05-22 14:07:50 <wumpus> sacarlson: yeah indeed, the most difficult thing will be making something that can't ever be mistaken for any real currency
1596 2011-05-22 14:07:54 <wumpus> sacarlson: yep
1597 2011-05-22 14:08:35 <sacarlson> wumpus: yes since I"ve already had that problem with accedental attempt to deposit real BTC I need to make it a bit more visable
1598 2011-05-22 14:08:40 <sipa> or put 'SPECIMEN' over it
1599 2011-05-22 14:09:17 sytse has joined
1600 2011-05-22 14:10:23 <diki> Would it still be a problem if i left the diff at 1?
1601 2011-05-22 14:11:16 <sacarlson> wumpus: this might be a good start then http://www.jdmpics.com/animals/green-june-beetle-2.jpg
1602 2011-05-22 14:12:01 TD has joined
1603 2011-05-22 14:12:28 <wumpus> sipa: good idea, but hard to do in a 16x16 icon
1604 2011-05-22 14:12:38 <wumpus> sacarlson: yes that's one huge ugly bug :)
1605 2011-05-22 14:12:57 <diki> pixel masters can do anything
1606 2011-05-22 14:13:09 <sacarlson> wumpus: I'll put a red cross through it and shrink it to 16X16 pixals
1607 2011-05-22 14:13:17 <wumpus> i don't think anyone of us here is a pixel master though, might be wrong of course
1608 2011-05-22 14:13:31 <sipa> diki: no
1609 2011-05-22 14:13:35 <sacarlson> wumpus: ok thanks for your help time for beer drinking
1610 2011-05-22 14:13:40 <sipa> any difficulty is fine
1611 2011-05-22 14:13:43 <wumpus> have fun
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1636 2011-05-22 14:53:06 <chmod755> how many blocks are currently on the testnet?
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1640 2011-05-22 15:01:43 <gasteve> my testnet client seems stuck at block 8087...it says it has 1 connecti on, but t doesn't seem to be downloading new blocks
1641 2011-05-22 15:02:10 <gasteve> are there any active testnet nodes that I could force it to connect to in order to get it to update?
1642 2011-05-22 15:02:55 <gasteve> chmod755: according to http://blockexplorer.com/testnet ...there are 19,743 blocks on testnet
1643 2011-05-22 15:03:37 <chmod755> gasteve: ty
1644 2011-05-22 15:04:22 <TD> are you sure you have the latest client ?
1645 2011-05-22 15:05:09 <gasteve> I definitely do not have the latest client
1646 2011-05-22 15:05:18 NichoV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1647 2011-05-22 15:05:30 <gasteve> running 0.3.21beta
1648 2011-05-22 15:05:52 <sipa> gasteve: bitcoin.sipa.be has a testnet node running
1649 2011-05-22 15:06:05 <gasteve> I now have 5 connections, but it's still not updating
1650 2011-05-22 15:06:18 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1651 2011-05-22 15:07:03 <sipa> my node has 19743 blocks
1652 2011-05-22 15:07:04 karnac has joined
1653 2011-05-22 15:10:11 <TD> gasteve: make sure you use the latest client as the first debugging step
1654 2011-05-22 15:10:24 <TD> if you're not getting past a particular block you may be on the wrong chain
1655 2011-05-22 15:10:26 <chmod755> +500 testnet coins to the faucet
1656 2011-05-22 15:10:43 <TD> or have encountered a block that's only valid with a newer client, but i doubt that
1657 2011-05-22 15:12:05 sta-hi has joined
1658 2011-05-22 15:12:47 <gasteve> actually, 0.3.21 appears to be the latest
1659 2011-05-22 15:13:11 sta-hi has quit (Client Quit)
1660 2011-05-22 15:13:18 <gasteve> so, yeah, I'm already running the latest...going to try and force it to connect to bitcoin.sipa.be
1661 2011-05-22 15:13:30 sta-hi has joined
1662 2011-05-22 15:13:33 <TD> look in the debug log then
1663 2011-05-22 15:13:38 <TD> it may tell you what's going on there
1664 2011-05-22 15:13:54 rutrader has joined
1665 2011-05-22 15:15:22 <gasteve> there we go..now it's working
1666 2011-05-22 15:17:08 pob has joined
1667 2011-05-22 15:17:54 <pob> ;;bc,mtgox
1668 2011-05-22 15:17:55 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.4,"low":5.63,"vol":22133,"buy":6.3201,"sell":6.4,"last":6.4}}
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1677 2011-05-22 15:48:50 <theboos> Does pygtk work on Windows?
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1680 2011-05-22 15:55:17 sethsethseth___ is now known as sethsethseth_
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1684 2011-05-22 15:59:41 <adzz> Hello, i got a question, if i were to creat my own pool, would it count as my own currency? or to earn bitcoins will i have to join a pool like slush's?
1685 2011-05-22 16:01:29 <mtrlt> no, different pools are not different currencies
1686 2011-05-22 16:01:33 <mtrlt> every pool mines bitcoins
1687 2011-05-22 16:04:46 Pathin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1688 2011-05-22 16:12:53 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
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1696 2011-05-22 16:41:56 BitMark has joined
1697 2011-05-22 16:42:25 <BitMark> notice anything funny about: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/d5a13dcb1ad24dbffab91c3c2ffe7aea38d5e84b444c0014eb6c7c31fe8e23fc#i820804
1698 2011-05-22 16:42:46 falafell has joined
1699 2011-05-22 16:43:33 <TD> hmm
1700 2011-05-22 16:43:59 <TD> i wish people would do these experiments on the testnet
1701 2011-05-22 16:44:06 <sipa> same
1702 2011-05-22 16:44:11 <falafell> to rescan my old wallet.dat i run this command right? bitcoin.exe -rescan
1703 2011-05-22 16:44:23 <sipa> yes
1704 2011-05-22 16:46:19 sirk390 has joined
1705 2011-05-22 16:47:22 <falafell> tnx :)
1706 2011-05-22 16:47:26 skeledrew has joined
1707 2011-05-22 16:49:36 <ninjaneo> hey im wondering what the 'good' way to poll for new transactions is
1708 2011-05-22 16:49:39 <molecular> seems there is some nice little weekend buying going on on mtgox ;)
1709 2011-05-22 16:49:57 <genjix> TD: what's the problem with that tx?
1710 2011-05-22 16:50:06 <sipa> genjix: zero amounts in txout
1711 2011-05-22 16:50:06 <genjix> the math adds up and everything seems fine.
1712 2011-05-22 16:50:08 <TD> no problems exactly
1713 2011-05-22 16:50:08 <ninjaneo> do you guys just listtransactions() and retrieve them all every time?
1714 2011-05-22 16:50:27 <genjix> so? that isn't a bad thing :p
1715 2011-05-22 16:50:52 <ninjaneo> must send negative amounts
1716 2011-05-22 16:50:54 <TD> yeah i'm just wondering if it's a bug or somebody is creating weird transactions for some other reason
1717 2011-05-22 16:51:01 <sipa> as such, maybe not, but i'm quite sure it's an experiment here
1718 2011-05-22 16:52:31 <molecular> how does that tx's math add up: 0.01*3 != 0.0111111
1719 2011-05-22 16:52:34 <ninjaneo> got should i listaccounts() perhaps and see if the balance has changed?
1720 2011-05-22 16:53:07 <TD> molecular: it pays a fee by definition
1721 2011-05-22 16:53:08 <sipa> molecular: there is no rule that it must
1722 2011-05-22 16:53:10 <genjix> molecular: forgot the fee
1723 2011-05-22 16:53:18 <molecular> oh, thx
1724 2011-05-22 16:53:30 <da2ce7> updated the https everywhere ruleset to work with the old forum links. http://www.bitcoinservice.co.uk/files/875 Hope it helps. (file is free, just refresh)
1725 2011-05-22 16:53:46 <BlueMatt> do we have a mr david armstrong on irc?
1726 2011-05-22 16:54:07 genjix has left ()
1727 2011-05-22 16:54:09 <theboos> I'm curious: why is the bitcoin wallet file not in plaintext like other unix data/config files?
1728 2011-05-22 16:54:32 <ninjaneo> probably because its not meant to be edited
1729 2011-05-22 16:54:39 <theboos> it seems like adding a key to the wallet should be as simple as copy-pasting a private key
1730 2011-05-22 16:54:43 <ninjaneo> and binary packing is more efficient
1731 2011-05-22 16:55:01 <sipa> theboos: efficiency, atomicity of updates
1732 2011-05-22 16:55:24 <TD> it stores binary data
1733 2011-05-22 16:55:30 <TD> (transactions)
1734 2011-05-22 16:56:28 <ninjaneo> did anyone understand what I was asking? trying to poll bitcoind via rpc to get "new" transactions (since my last poll) is there a 'good' way to do this
1735 2011-05-22 16:56:29 <sipa> theboos: but see http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8091.0
1736 2011-05-22 16:56:41 <mtrlt> hmp how is the public key calculated from the private key in ECDSA? tried looking at wikipedia but it made no sense :/
1737 2011-05-22 16:57:03 <sipa> molecular: public key is secret parameter multiplied by generator point
1738 2011-05-22 16:57:03 <TD> ninjaneo: no, because satoshi was opposed to it. transactions can be valid then become invalid
1739 2011-05-22 16:57:12 <ninjaneo> ah
1740 2011-05-22 16:57:13 <TD> it's fluid. so that's why you only get to see the end result of the current state
1741 2011-05-22 16:57:35 <TD> it'd be easy to write code that looks correct but fails some time later after a re-org
1742 2011-05-22 16:57:50 <sipa> sorry
1743 2011-05-22 16:57:55 <sipa> mtrlt: public key is secret parameter multiplied by generator point
1744 2011-05-22 16:58:06 <ninjaneo> yeah, hm. So I must poll every transaction every time, check to see if I've already 'recorded' this transaction, etc?
1745 2011-05-22 16:58:33 <molecular> sipa, I hope "wallet key import export" will be merged soon
1746 2011-05-22 16:58:34 <TD> no
1747 2011-05-22 16:58:36 <mtrlt> sipa: is it modular multiplication or something? otherwise it makes no sense
1748 2011-05-22 16:58:37 <TD> what are you trying to do?
1749 2011-05-22 16:58:44 <ninjaneo> accept bitcoins on a website
1750 2011-05-22 16:58:46 <sipa> mtrlt: it is EC mutliplication
1751 2011-05-22 16:58:55 <ninjaneo> and update the websites 'balance' when the transaction confirms
1752 2011-05-22 16:59:12 <sipa> mtrlt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_curve_point_multiplication
1753 2011-05-22 16:59:36 <mtrlt> sipa: thx
1754 2011-05-22 16:59:43 <mtrlt> i hope my mathematical background is sufficient :P
1755 2011-05-22 16:59:52 <TD> mtrlt: http://www.imperialviolet.org/2010/12/04/ecc.html
1756 2011-05-22 17:00:01 <TD> mtrlt: don't try and do ECC yourself
1757 2011-05-22 17:00:14 <TD> mtrlt: if for some reason you have to reimplement it, just copy a pre-existing implementation like openssl or bouncy castle
1758 2011-05-22 17:00:26 <mtrlt> i want to make it myself for educational purposes
1759 2011-05-22 17:00:36 <TD> ok
1760 2011-05-22 17:00:40 <mtrlt> i would never use it in anything real :p
1761 2011-05-22 17:00:42 <TD> that article will get you started
1762 2011-05-22 17:00:47 <devrandom1> ;;later tell BlueMatt thinking of switching the reports to json because python-yaml is not included by default in ubuntu
1763 2011-05-22 17:00:47 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1764 2011-05-22 17:00:53 glassman has joined
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1766 2011-05-22 17:01:04 <TD> ninjaneo: bitcoin can do a POST to you when the balance changes, iirc
1767 2011-05-22 17:01:07 <mtrlt> yea thx
1768 2011-05-22 17:01:14 <TD> ninjaneo: it's safe to poll the balance. not individual transactions.
1769 2011-05-22 17:01:31 <ninjaneo> ah ok, once the balance updates, the transaction is confirmed?
1770 2011-05-22 17:01:50 <sipa> confirmed is fluid thing
1771 2011-05-22 17:01:54 <ninjaneo> ;p
1772 2011-05-22 17:01:59 <sipa> how many confirmations are enough for you?
1773 2011-05-22 17:01:59 <ninjaneo> mostly confirmed then?
1774 2011-05-22 17:02:01 <ninjaneo> lol
1775 2011-05-22 17:02:13 <ninjaneo> I don't understand why it doesn't just 'confirm' it itself?
1776 2011-05-22 17:02:15 <TD> ninjaneo: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/PHP_developer_intro
1777 2011-05-22 17:02:34 <ninjaneo> looks like a good read
1778 2011-05-22 17:02:48 glassman has quit (Client Quit)
1779 2011-05-22 17:03:57 nupi has joined
1780 2011-05-22 17:04:06 <ninjaneo> hm, I currently have that side of things implemented, I just used getaccountaddress, and conviniently bitcoind supplied a new address, when the account didn't exist
1781 2011-05-22 17:04:21 oneman has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1782 2011-05-22 17:04:34 <TD> ninjaneo: honestly, documentation and support for merchants is really rough at the moment
1783 2011-05-22 17:04:35 <TD> there is this page
1784 2011-05-22 17:04:37 <TD> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Merchant_Howto
1785 2011-05-22 17:04:39 <TD> but it's way too vague
1786 2011-05-22 17:04:58 <TD> ninjaneo: if you want to help out, really improving the support around this area would be great
1787 2011-05-22 17:05:16 <ninjaneo> as I go i'll try and edit the wiki with my findings
1788 2011-05-22 17:05:54 <TD> thanks
1789 2011-05-22 17:06:03 <TD> you can poll to find the balance of an address
1790 2011-05-22 17:06:10 <TD> but that's ugly
1791 2011-05-22 17:06:23 <TD> let me look at the rpc code for you
1792 2011-05-22 17:06:26 <ninjaneo> it is but it almost seems like one of the only options =o
1793 2011-05-22 17:07:19 <ninjaneo> i was thinking I could use the listaccounts()
1794 2011-05-22 17:07:24 skeledrew1 has joined
1795 2011-05-22 17:07:55 <ninjaneo> but if I ever get a lot of users, that would really suck
1796 2011-05-22 17:08:17 <TD> oh, there is a listtransactions call
1797 2011-05-22 17:08:35 <ninjaneo> yeah and you can specify a count, but not an offset
1798 2011-05-22 17:08:40 Netsniper has joined
1799 2011-05-22 17:08:50 <BlueMatt> devrandom1: probably not a bad idea, though is json sooo much better?
1800 2011-05-22 17:08:54 <ninjaneo> I had this idea of polling the last 5 transactions until I had reached a transaction I already had 'recorded'
1801 2011-05-22 17:09:11 <ninjaneo> but theres no way to "LIMIT 5,5" (if you speak sql)
1802 2011-05-22 17:09:16 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1803 2011-05-22 17:09:56 <sipa> there was some patch to ask only transactions after a given transaction
1804 2011-05-22 17:10:02 <sipa> not sure whether it got merged
1805 2011-05-22 17:10:02 <idnar> what you need is an RPC method that looks like "return the next N transactions after <txid>"
1806 2011-05-22 17:10:05 Enchilada has quit (Quit: Enchilada)
1807 2011-05-22 17:10:08 <ninjaneo> ooooh, sounds like a nice solution
1808 2011-05-22 17:10:09 <idnar> oh, snap
1809 2011-05-22 17:10:27 <TD> huh
1810 2011-05-22 17:10:34 <BlueMatt> devrandom1: could you not do something simple like a plaintext file?
1811 2011-05-22 17:10:39 <TD> i could have sworn there was an RPC that would let you be informed when an address receives coins
1812 2011-05-22 17:10:50 <TD> maybe it was a patch
1813 2011-05-22 17:11:12 <ninjaneo> there is a getbalance([account])
1814 2011-05-22 17:11:41 <ninjaneo> or I think I remember someone talking about a "monitortransactions" rpc call, possibly not merged in yet
1815 2011-05-22 17:11:41 <sipa> TD: monitortx, yes
1816 2011-05-22 17:11:44 <TD> right
1817 2011-05-22 17:11:50 <TD> oh it wasn't merged?
1818 2011-05-22 17:11:55 <sipa> it was, for 0.3.22
1819 2011-05-22 17:11:58 <ninjaneo> not sure
1820 2011-05-22 17:12:06 <TD> ah
1821 2011-05-22 17:12:09 <TD> my local node is out of date
1822 2011-05-22 17:12:16 <TD> though
1823 2011-05-22 17:12:16 <sipa> 0.3.22 is not released yet
1824 2011-05-22 17:12:22 <TD> i don't see it in 0.3.22rc2
1825 2011-05-22 17:12:23 <ninjaneo> is it stable/in repo?
1826 2011-05-22 17:12:28 <sipa> TD: really?
1827 2011-05-22 17:12:31 <sipa> hmm, i may be mistaken
1828 2011-05-22 17:12:41 <sipa> oh, it's not merged indeed
1829 2011-05-22 17:12:45 mcqueenorama has joined
1830 2011-05-22 17:12:48 <TD> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/198
1831 2011-05-22 17:12:51 <ninjaneo> someone merge that =p
1832 2011-05-22 17:13:13 oneman has joined
1833 2011-05-22 17:13:28 <TD> http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=7421
1834 2011-05-22 17:13:34 <TD> i wonder if it's waiting for a review ...
1835 2011-05-22 17:13:34 <ninjaneo> oh wow nice it pushes!
1836 2011-05-22 17:13:40 <TD> right
1837 2011-05-22 17:13:41 <ninjaneo> thats beautiful
1838 2011-05-22 17:14:18 <jgarzik> TD: not 0.3.22 material
1839 2011-05-22 17:14:23 <TD> how so ?
1840 2011-05-22 17:14:49 <jgarzik> TD: we're already locked down in bugfix-only, release candidate mode for days
1841 2011-05-22 17:14:53 <mcqueenorama> is this a good place to ask about talking to the wallet via curl?
1842 2011-05-22 17:14:56 <TD> oh, i see what you mean
1843 2011-05-22 17:15:00 <TD> i thought you meant it wasn't finished
1844 2011-05-22 17:15:05 Guest49303 has joined
1845 2011-05-22 17:15:15 * ninjaneo builds his own release candidate =p
1846 2011-05-22 17:15:16 <sipa> but i don't see a reason why it wouldn't get merged for 0.4.0
1847 2011-05-22 17:15:25 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: got the rc3 builds?
1848 2011-05-22 17:15:29 <jgarzik> TD: plus, 0.3.22 is basically "all small crap prior to merging tons of stuff in 0.4"
1849 2011-05-22 17:15:31 <sipa> jgarzik: seen https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/255 ?
1850 2011-05-22 17:15:33 <TD> ok
1851 2011-05-22 17:15:42 <jgarzik> I don't like 'getblock' though
1852 2011-05-22 17:15:48 <jgarzik> my stuff provides much more info
1853 2011-05-22 17:16:09 blueadept has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1854 2011-05-22 17:16:31 <jgarzik> sipa: seen yes, thought about it, no :) It's from you so I sorta presume that it is sane and makes sense ;)
1855 2011-05-22 17:16:43 <TD> ninjaneo: what language are you working in?
1856 2011-05-22 17:16:50 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I'll go ahead and jump on that, modulo baby explosions
1857 2011-05-22 17:16:56 <ninjaneo> python
1858 2011-05-22 17:17:00 <BlueMatt> lol
1859 2011-05-22 17:17:28 <TD> ninjaneo: ok. having some kind of "canonical web store" app would be great
1860 2011-05-22 17:17:36 <TD> if it was written in an easy to understand language like python and well documented
1861 2011-05-22 17:17:45 <TD> then others could follow your lead
1862 2011-05-22 17:17:46 <ninjaneo> yeah, working in django, so it should be relatively easy to re-use
1863 2011-05-22 17:17:52 mcqueenorama has left ()
1864 2011-05-22 17:18:04 <jgarzik> a bitcoin django module would be great
1865 2011-05-22 17:18:20 <jgarzik> django already has a nice, modular framework for deploying stuff like that
1866 2011-05-22 17:18:25 <ninjaneo> ;)
1867 2011-05-22 17:18:34 darkmethod has joined
1868 2011-05-22 17:19:45 <sipa> jgarzik: well, it seems the rescanning code (written by gavin, i believe) explicitly avoids looking at known transactions - not sure whether it was for a reason, or whether it's an oversight that it sometimes is necessary to look at those
1869 2011-05-22 17:20:08 <sipa> but i consider it a bugfix
1870 2011-05-22 17:20:19 <ninjaneo> probably an 'optimization'
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1875 2011-05-22 17:21:40 <mcqueenorama> how do I talk to the wallet? I can't find any good docs on that. It doesn't seem to be json-rpc
1876 2011-05-22 17:21:52 <mcqueenorama> simple gets don't return anything
1877 2011-05-22 17:21:56 <ninjaneo> mcqueenorama, the wallet is just a file, you want to talk to bitcoind
1878 2011-05-22 17:22:06 <jgarzik> what ninjaneo said :)
1879 2011-05-22 17:22:12 <devrandom1> BlueMatt - there's a bunch of structure in there, and rolling our own config parser seems reinventing the wheel
1880 2011-05-22 17:22:25 <mcqueenorama> the wallet is a bitcoin proc on my laptop and there's a wallet protocol right?
1881 2011-05-22 17:22:38 <sipa> mcqueenorama: which program are you talking about?
1882 2011-05-22 17:22:48 devrandom1 is now known as devrandom
1883 2011-05-22 17:22:48 <ninjaneo> nope, just a file.
1884 2011-05-22 17:22:48 <mcqueenorama> bitcoin
1885 2011-05-22 17:22:48 <sipa> what did you install, or what is the name of the binary
1886 2011-05-22 17:22:52 <jgarzik> sourceforget, you are so slow!
1887 2011-05-22 17:22:57 theboos has joined
1888 2011-05-22 17:23:03 <BlueMatt> devrandom1: true, but for something simple, a simple config parser would suffice...OTOH, there is nothing wrong with json so...its up to you
1889 2011-05-22 17:23:05 <ninjaneo> what you want to do is use json-rpc to talk to the process managing the file, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list
1890 2011-05-22 17:23:23 <sipa> mcqueenorama: ok, so it's just the bitcoin node - it speaks the P2P protocol to communicate with other nodes, and JSON-RPC for management
1891 2011-05-22 17:23:34 <mcqueenorama> that's for talking to a bitcoind right?
1892 2011-05-22 17:23:38 <adzz> how do i create my own Pool?
1893 2011-05-22 17:23:42 <devrandom> BlueMatt - ok (I'm now devrandom btw)
1894 2011-05-22 17:23:46 <sipa> adzz: why do you need to?
1895 2011-05-22 17:23:53 <ninjaneo> adzz, check into pushpull open source pool
1896 2011-05-22 17:23:59 <sipa> mcqueenorama: bitcoin can also speak JSON-RPC if you call it with -server
1897 2011-05-22 17:24:23 <BlueMatt> devrandom: sorry, started typing/tab completing before the change
1898 2011-05-22 17:24:33 <mcqueenorama> maybe that's the thing. it started in client more. but its listening on 8333
1899 2011-05-22 17:24:42 <devrandom> BlueMatt - np, just heads up
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1901 2011-05-22 17:25:15 <jgarzik> ninjaneo: pushpool, not pushpull
1902 2011-05-22 17:25:16 <devrandom> bbl
1903 2011-05-22 17:25:24 <jgarzik> though using git, that's an understandable slipup :)
1904 2011-05-22 17:25:25 <ninjaneo> oooh =p
1905 2011-05-22 17:25:35 <mcqueenorama> what's it doing on 8333? That;s the wallet protocol isn't it?
1906 2011-05-22 17:25:50 <ninjaneo> thats the json rpc
1907 2011-05-22 17:25:56 <ninjaneo> thats the interface you want to talk to
1908 2011-05-22 17:26:01 <ninjaneo> that can tell you about your wallet
1909 2011-05-22 17:26:10 <sipa> mcqueenorama: 8333 is the bitcoin P2P protocol
1910 2011-05-22 17:26:16 <ninjaneo> oh jeeze ok ill stop
1911 2011-05-22 17:26:25 <sipa> mcqueenorama: json-rpc interface is usually on 8332
1912 2011-05-22 17:26:35 <sipa> mcqueenorama: and the 'wallet protocol' is just talk, for now
1913 2011-05-22 17:26:40 <mcqueenorama> oh
1914 2011-05-22 17:26:48 <mcqueenorama> that's why i can't find any docs on it
1915 2011-05-22 17:26:58 <sipa> but json-rpc is what you want, probably
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1917 2011-05-22 17:28:51 <mcqueenorama> ic the bitcoin.conf is in a weird place so I coudln't figure out how to get at the thing. i tried to start it with server and it gave me a useful error, so I found the conf. I think I can get it now
1918 2011-05-22 17:29:16 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
1919 2011-05-22 17:29:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 125810 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 1197 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 13 hours, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 366218.00467375
1920 2011-05-22 17:30:23 rutrader has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1922 2011-05-22 17:31:31 <ninjaneo> so I guess the monitortx I would want to use host based auth + perhaps a obscure url
1923 2011-05-22 17:32:19 <TD> yeah or only accept POSTs to that URL from localhost
1924 2011-05-22 17:32:26 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1925 2011-05-22 17:32:43 <ninjaneo> I was just looking at the commit, looks like a nice featuer
1926 2011-05-22 17:32:55 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-252-5-171.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
1927 2011-05-22 17:32:57 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: 0.3.22-rc3 builds uploaded to SF
1928 2011-05-22 17:33:01 <jgarzik> and noted in thread
1929 2011-05-22 17:33:25 nutcase has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1930 2011-05-22 17:33:30 <ninjaneo> oh crap but I just realized if the website ever went down, it would stop recieving updates, and then I would need to rely on listtransactions
1931 2011-05-22 17:33:37 <jgarzik> Release candidate 0.3.22-rc3 builds uploaded, please test! https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.22/test/
1932 2011-05-22 17:35:12 <ninjaneo> so some hybrid is the best route I guess
1933 2011-05-22 17:35:19 <mcqueenorama> talking to the wallet now
1934 2011-05-22 17:35:38 <mcqueenorama> how am I supposed to do transactions if I have to restart the wallet in server mode?
1935 2011-05-22 17:35:59 <mcqueenorama> normal dudes can't restart their wallets in server mode and make a bitcoin.conf
1936 2011-05-22 17:36:07 <sipa> mcqueenorama: normal dudes don't need to
1937 2011-05-22 17:36:12 <sipa> they just use the GUI
1938 2011-05-22 17:36:18 <ninjaneo> normal dudes dont often talk to their wallets
1939 2011-05-22 17:36:29 <mcqueenorama> it does sound funny
1940 2011-05-22 17:37:08 <ninjaneo> crap im spilling shit and knocking shit over
1941 2011-05-22 17:37:47 <ninjaneo> bongwater on a keyboard isn't pleasant smelling
1942 2011-05-22 17:38:11 <mcqueenorama> so shopping cart apps and such won't do the transaction on behalf of the buyer? The buyer is expected to use their wallet and send to an address, and the shopping cart apps just tell a sendto address?
1943 2011-05-22 17:38:27 <sipa> for now
1944 2011-05-22 17:38:42 <mcqueenorama> i imagine the shopping cart app will talk to the wallet and do the txn - ok
1945 2011-05-22 17:39:03 <ninjaneo> some type of uri scheme might be a cool feature for the future, user confirmed of coursde
1946 2011-05-22 17:39:06 <sipa> in the future, it may generate a bitcoin: URI or something, that automatically fires up your bitcoin wallet manager, or e-wallet site
1947 2011-05-22 17:39:11 adzz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1948 2011-05-22 17:39:26 <sipa> "Click here to pay"-like
1949 2011-05-22 17:39:38 <BitMark> ninjaneo: already exists
1950 2011-05-22 17:39:44 <mcqueenorama> yes that is what i am trying to do - a Buy Now kind of thing
1951 2011-05-22 17:39:46 <ninjaneo> ohrly
1952 2011-05-22 17:39:59 <BitMark> at least the spec does
1953 2011-05-22 17:40:00 <mcqueenorama> BitMark url
1954 2011-05-22 17:40:02 <ninjaneo> nice
1955 2011-05-22 17:40:10 <sipa> ninjaneo: i lost count many times it has been suggested, and how many different proposals have been made already
1956 2011-05-22 17:40:17 <BitMark> the android app i work on supports the uri
1957 2011-05-22 17:40:17 <ninjaneo> lol
1958 2011-05-22 17:40:31 <ninjaneo> yay for community development
1959 2011-05-22 17:40:43 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/URI_Scheme
1960 2011-05-22 17:41:00 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/X-btc
1961 2011-05-22 17:41:19 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/182
1962 2011-05-22 17:41:24 <ninjaneo> that a mime header?
1963 2011-05-22 17:41:35 <sipa> no, a uri
1964 2011-05-22 17:41:41 <ninjaneo> oh i saw the x-
1965 2011-05-22 17:41:42 <ninjaneo> lol
1966 2011-05-22 17:41:47 deaf has joined
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1968 2011-05-22 17:42:21 <mcqueenorama> so the shopping cart apps need to poll the p2p network for arrival of the payment at the target address to notify the merchant?
1969 2011-05-22 17:42:52 Jere_Jones has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1970 2011-05-22 17:43:48 <ninjaneo> what I am considering doing is making an 'account' for each user of the website, and then polling their balance every so often
1971 2011-05-22 17:44:46 <ninjaneo> but of course their balance isn't going to remain there for ever, so some higher level tracking is needed
1972 2011-05-22 17:45:39 skeledrew has joined
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1975 2011-05-22 17:48:32 <TD> ninjaneo: you can just create a new transaction for every user
1976 2011-05-22 17:48:36 <TD> unless you want recurring payments
1977 2011-05-22 17:48:38 <TD> sorry
1978 2011-05-22 17:48:44 <TD> ninjaneo: i meant, a new address for every transaction
1979 2011-05-22 17:49:49 <ninjaneo> yeah I plan on making a "generate new address" type feature for users that would want that
1980 2011-05-22 17:50:25 <ninjaneo> they would still be able to send to the old address htough, because I have to account for all bitcoins recieved from any address, or i intend to just return them to sender
1981 2011-05-22 17:51:18 <jgarzik> you can't really 'bounce' a transaction
1982 2011-05-22 17:51:22 theboos has joined
1983 2011-05-22 17:51:47 <ninjaneo> oh yeah I just realized that for them to send me btc i would have to give them an address in the first place =x duh
1984 2011-05-22 17:53:13 <mcqueenorama> are merchants expected to check their wallets before delivering their goods?
1985 2011-05-22 17:53:22 <ninjaneo> yes
1986 2011-05-22 17:53:30 <mcqueenorama> Can I verify payment for them by pinging the p2p network?
1987 2011-05-22 17:53:36 <ninjaneo> nope
1988 2011-05-22 17:54:12 <ninjaneo> each transaction gets 'confirmed' and once you get some confirmations, you can be more confident that the transaction was valid
1989 2011-05-22 17:54:20 <mcqueenorama> then a "merchant" wallet is needed that can be queried directly.
1990 2011-05-22 17:54:47 <mcqueenorama> Merchants need to run their wallets in server mode I guess but that's not a user-friendly thing at this time
1991 2011-05-22 17:55:02 <ninjaneo> na but runners of websites shouldn't be using the gui anyway
1992 2011-05-22 17:55:06 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1993 2011-05-22 17:55:15 <ninjaneo> they would more commonly use bitcoind the headless/non-gui/cli interface
1994 2011-05-22 17:56:29 <mcqueenorama> their bitcoind needs to be owner of the wallet that has the to_address right?
1995 2011-05-22 17:56:54 skoob has joined
1996 2011-05-22 17:56:56 <ninjaneo> yes, but did you know that each wallet can have multiple addresses?
1997 2011-05-22 17:57:04 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, do you happen to know the specifics of why OP_AND/OR/XOR/INVERT are disabled
1998 2011-05-22 17:57:28 <mcqueenorama> yes, so the online bitcoind wallet has all the biz addresses and the client addresses too
1999 2011-05-22 17:57:34 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell devrandom Im going to start a bitcoin/gitian ppa that should (hopefully) eventually might make it upstream into real repos (for bitcoind only, all that wx crap) for bitcoin builds to start being easier to install and released distributed...also Im not sure if there is any huge advantage of moving off yaml just because its not default in ubuntu, adding a dep of a very small package really isnt a big deal at all, IMHO not worth rewri
2000 2011-05-22 17:57:34 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2001 2011-05-22 17:57:34 <BlueMatt> ting parts of gitian for it
2002 2011-05-22 17:57:35 <BlueMatt> aww
2003 2011-05-22 17:57:45 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell devrandom ting parts of gitian for it
2004 2011-05-22 17:57:46 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2005 2011-05-22 17:57:47 <phantomcircuit> blueadept, lol
2006 2011-05-22 17:58:03 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, ^
2007 2011-05-22 17:58:32 Ramokk_ has joined
2008 2011-05-22 17:59:30 <falafell> ehh what could cause the bitcoin client to not connect to the network anymore... it worked fine 10 minutes ago, then i restart the client, now it stays at 0 connections
2009 2011-05-22 17:59:42 <BlueMatt> thats a common issue...
2010 2011-05-22 17:59:47 <BlueMatt> try -dnsseed ?
2011 2011-05-22 18:00:03 has joined
2012 2011-05-22 18:00:10 <falafell> haven't tried yet, will do
2013 2011-05-22 18:00:12 <BlueMatt> really needs fixed aasap
2014 2011-05-22 18:00:32 <falafell> i have it on 2 machines in fact... :/ pretty odd
2015 2011-05-22 18:01:42 <mcqueenorama> but keeping the bitcoins out on the server is a big risk for the merchants. Maybe just keep the addresses out there and continuously move the coins into a more secure wallet
2016 2011-05-22 18:01:54 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, the initial connection setup is 100% fucked
2017 2011-05-22 18:02:02 <BlueMatt> mcqueenorama: or wait for encryption in 0.4.0
2018 2011-05-22 18:02:11 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: pretty much
2019 2011-05-22 18:02:16 <BlueMatt> then you cant spend w/o the password
2020 2011-05-22 18:02:28 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, yeah you have to manually connect to a node
2021 2011-05-22 18:02:29 _Netsniper_ has joined
2022 2011-05-22 18:02:37 <phantomcircuit> it's truly facepalm worthly
2023 2011-05-22 18:02:39 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yep, care to fix it?
2024 2011-05-22 18:02:47 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2025 2011-05-22 18:02:59 <phantomcircuit> not really, it really requires the use of a shared semaphore
2026 2011-05-22 18:03:00 <phantomcircuit> and well
2027 2011-05-22 18:03:02 <phantomcircuit> fuck that
2028 2011-05-22 18:03:09 <mcqueenorama> it seems that a special merchant wallet is needed to make this fit well into the current online shopping experience
2029 2011-05-22 18:03:22 <ninjaneo> nope
2030 2011-05-22 18:03:31 <ninjaneo> all wallets are created equal
2031 2011-05-22 18:03:44 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: no it doesnt
2032 2011-05-22 18:03:52 <phantomcircuit> mcqueenorama, yeah you're basically right the current setup is not up for a large ecommerce site
2033 2011-05-22 18:03:55 skoob has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2034 2011-05-22 18:03:59 <falafell> i hope the connection stuff gets fixed soon, many newcomers might get pissed off over that xD
2035 2011-05-22 18:04:03 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, peers have their own thread right?
2036 2011-05-22 18:04:03 <BlueMatt> it just needs a bit of fine tuning in terms of connection timeouts and aggressiveness to start with
2037 2011-05-22 18:04:04 <mcqueenorama> no i mean a bitcoind that has the head - i am calling that a wallet here
2038 2011-05-22 18:04:12 <ninjaneo> mcqueenorama, they're working on adding some functionality to make it easier for merchants to automate this stuff
2039 2011-05-22 18:04:23 <ninjaneo> mcqueenorama, perhaps you would be interested in the Lazy API
2040 2011-05-22 18:04:31 has quit (Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-240-192-37.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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2042 2011-05-22 18:04:34 nutcase has joined
2043 2011-05-22 18:04:36 <ninjaneo> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Lazy_API
2044 2011-05-22 18:04:43 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: no peers are all in one thread iirc?
2045 2011-05-22 18:04:47 <mcqueenorama> i saw that but i don't see that as a good long term solution
2046 2011-05-22 18:04:53 Ramokk_ is now known as Ramokk
2047 2011-05-22 18:05:07 <BlueMatt> mcqueenorama: what, exactly is your problem?
2048 2011-05-22 18:05:32 <ninjaneo> mcqueenorama is trying to comprehend how merchants rx btc
2049 2011-05-22 18:05:46 <mcqueenorama> i am trying to build a shopping cart that merchants will love
2050 2011-05-22 18:05:48 <BlueMatt> and whats wrong with a bitcoind?
2051 2011-05-22 18:06:07 <BlueMatt> (once we have wallet crypto)
2052 2011-05-22 18:06:19 <mcqueenorama> at this point i am worried about them leaving their coins on the server that's running bitcoind
2053 2011-05-22 18:06:22 <BlueMatt> (and a good sci on top of rpc)
2054 2011-05-22 18:06:23 <mcqueenorama> yes the crypto thing
2055 2011-05-22 18:06:26 bk128 has joined
2056 2011-05-22 18:06:38 <BlueMatt> once you get it crypted, there is nothing wrong
2057 2011-05-22 18:06:44 <ninjaneo> mcqueenorama, once you confirm that you have the users bitcoins, you could send them to your personal account or something
2058 2011-05-22 18:06:48 <BlueMatt> you cant spend it from the server so who really cares?
2059 2011-05-22 18:07:18 <mcqueenorama> yes ninjanneo
2060 2011-05-22 18:08:42 <mcqueenorama> oh i will think about that. the server running the shopping cart has to be able to talk to the bitcoid that has the addresses and coins.
2061 2011-05-22 18:08:46 nutcase has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2062 2011-05-22 18:09:04 <BlueMatt> yep
2063 2011-05-22 18:09:19 <BlueMatt> so really the only "good" solution is wallet crypto or a bitcoind that doesnt keep privkeys
2064 2011-05-22 18:09:23 <mcqueenorama> but i forget that there are not really any coins - only txns in the block chain
2065 2011-05-22 18:10:16 <mcqueenorama> but the keys are in that bitcoind and that is bad. the coins will need to be xferd to a more secure wallet i guess
2066 2011-05-22 18:10:42 <BlueMatt> or use wallet crypto
2067 2011-05-22 18:10:46 <BlueMatt> then the keys arent technically in bitcoind
2068 2011-05-22 18:11:10 <mcqueenorama> what's that wallet crypto?
2069 2011-05-22 18:11:18 <BlueMatt> encrypts private keys
2070 2011-05-22 18:11:25 <BlueMatt> so that no coins can be spent w/o the password
2071 2011-05-22 18:11:26 <mcqueenorama> is that theoretical or is it working?
2072 2011-05-22 18:11:31 <BlueMatt> working
2073 2011-05-22 18:11:35 <BlueMatt> to be pulled in 0.4.0
2074 2011-05-22 18:12:07 <BlueMatt> see: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/232
2075 2011-05-22 18:12:17 <mcqueenorama> i think that would be good enough
2076 2011-05-22 18:12:41 <BlueMatt> thats the idea ;)
2077 2011-05-22 18:12:57 <mcqueenorama> so how did that guy steal that money from mtgox then? he didn't steal their keys
2078 2011-05-22 18:13:02 nutcase has joined
2079 2011-05-22 18:13:19 <mcqueenorama> oh he got mtgox to xfer it to him
2080 2011-05-22 18:13:31 <mcqueenorama> by changing the values in the mtgox db
2081 2011-05-22 18:14:21 ArtForzZz has joined
2082 2011-05-22 18:14:43 kiba has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2083 2011-05-22 18:14:47 <BlueMatt> mtgox had a vulnerability in its code...also they weren't using wallet crypto
2084 2011-05-22 18:14:52 <BlueMatt> as it wasnt out at the time
2085 2011-05-22 18:14:56 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2086 2011-05-22 18:14:56 <BlueMatt> nor is it in the client yet
2087 2011-05-22 18:15:07 sethsethseth__ has joined
2088 2011-05-22 18:15:12 <BlueMatt> wait for 0.4.0
2089 2011-05-22 18:16:17 sethsethseth___ has joined
2090 2011-05-22 18:17:26 <x5x> wats this mtgox shit ur talking about ?
2091 2011-05-22 18:17:42 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2092 2011-05-22 18:17:42 <BlueMatt> the old crap from before mt took it over
2093 2011-05-22 18:17:48 <BlueMatt> (Id assume)
2094 2011-05-22 18:17:50 <x5x> ah
2095 2011-05-22 18:17:55 <x5x> someone stole their btc ?
2096 2011-05-22 18:17:58 <mcqueenorama> there were some coins stolen recently
2097 2011-05-22 18:18:00 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2098 2011-05-22 18:18:07 <mcqueenorama> there's a thread about it somehere
2099 2011-05-22 18:18:08 <BlueMatt> mcqueenorama: really? link?
2100 2011-05-22 18:18:12 <mcqueenorama> oh no it was deepbit!
2101 2011-05-22 18:18:17 <mcqueenorama> not mtgox! sorry
2102 2011-05-22 18:18:23 <BlueMatt> ah deepbit really?
2103 2011-05-22 18:18:31 <BlueMatt> again link?
2104 2011-05-22 18:18:32 <mcqueenorama> i'll find the thread
2105 2011-05-22 18:19:27 <x5x> ah deepbit, thats fine :)
2106 2011-05-22 18:19:40 sethsethseth__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2107 2011-05-22 18:19:56 <ninjaneo> lol
2108 2011-05-22 18:20:01 OneFixt has joined
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2113 2011-05-22 18:22:27 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell devrandom might you push a license on the gitian repo? mit or such would be nice
2114 2011-05-22 18:22:28 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2115 2011-05-22 18:22:50 <mcqueenorama> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8281.msg120647#msg120647
2116 2011-05-22 18:22:53 npouillard has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2117 2011-05-22 18:23:15 <BlueMatt> oh no one stole from deepbit
2118 2011-05-22 18:23:23 <BlueMatt> just some idiot had a really weak password
2119 2011-05-22 18:23:39 <BlueMatt> their fault, nothing to do with hacks or bitcoind or anything
2120 2011-05-22 18:23:57 <BlueMatt> just some user who gave someone their password (stupidly)
2121 2011-05-22 18:24:14 <mcqueenorama> no i think the thief changed addresses in the deepbit database. Thats why deepbit now has that msg about how they had to erase addresses
2122 2011-05-22 18:25:31 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2123 2011-05-22 18:25:35 <BlueMatt> no
2124 2011-05-22 18:25:47 <BlueMatt> again, users who lost their password and/or were stupid with them
2125 2011-05-22 18:26:02 <BlueMatt> so tycho added some new features to keep that from happening in the future, but still not his fault
2126 2011-05-22 18:26:07 <BlueMatt> just stupid/careless users
2127 2011-05-22 18:26:09 <mcqueenorama> ic
2128 2011-05-22 18:26:27 <mcqueenorama> that is much better
2129 2011-05-22 18:26:41 <BlueMatt> (though [Tycho] still reimbursed them which is really cool of him)
2130 2011-05-22 18:27:04 <mcqueenorama> yes that's good business
2131 2011-05-22 18:27:15 <mcqueenorama> thanks for the help
2132 2011-05-22 18:27:46 mcqueenorama has left ()
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2136 2011-05-22 18:28:13 GarrettB has joined
2137 2011-05-22 18:28:25 <cal97> hey guys, does anybody have the graph with gpus, there mh/s and wattage?
2138 2011-05-22 18:28:59 <dinox> When I type "bitcoind listtransactions count=30", output is an empty array. Why?
2139 2011-05-22 18:29:03 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,wiki Mining Hardware Comparison
2140 2011-05-22 18:29:04 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison | May 21, 2011 ... Mining hardware comparison. From Bitcoin. Jump to: navigation, search. Below are some statistics about the mining performance of various ...
2141 2011-05-22 18:29:06 <BlueMatt> cal97: ^
2142 2011-05-22 18:29:25 <dinox> without the count=30 it works fine
2143 2011-05-22 18:29:39 <BlueMatt> dinox: Im assuming its because you dont have any txes in the account named "count=30"
2144 2011-05-22 18:29:40 <cal97> thanks bluematt and girbble
2145 2011-05-22 18:29:54 <BlueMatt> cal97: for reference, gribble is a bot ;)
2146 2011-05-22 18:29:59 <BlueMatt> ;;pet
2147 2011-05-22 18:30:00 <gribble> *purrrrrrrr*
2148 2011-05-22 18:30:19 <dinox> BlueMatt: ah, may I use a wildcard to select all accounts and output 30 rows?
2149 2011-05-22 18:30:31 <cal97> lol, smart bot ;)
2150 2011-05-22 18:30:32 <BlueMatt> no idea, I dont think so
2151 2011-05-22 18:30:41 <dinox> hmm
2152 2011-05-22 18:30:59 <BlueMatt> cal97: it knows how to search wikis well ;)
2153 2011-05-22 18:31:07 <BlueMatt> dinox: i could be very wrong on the subject...
2154 2011-05-22 18:31:29 * dinox going to dig into the src
2155 2011-05-22 18:31:38 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: ask ArtForz
2156 2011-05-22 18:34:32 dx25 has joined
2157 2011-05-22 18:35:01 Rudycoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2159 2011-05-22 18:37:39 brooss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2160 2011-05-22 18:37:50 brooss has joined
2161 2011-05-22 18:38:14 brooss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2166 2011-05-22 18:42:16 GER-newb has joined
2167 2011-05-22 18:43:09 <GER-newb> i am new to bitcoin and have a short question: the client isnt connecting or downloading anything...
2168 2011-05-22 18:46:21 <jgarzik> GER-newb: try running with -addnode=W.X.Y.Z, using an IP address from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes
2169 2011-05-22 18:46:35 <jgarzik> GER-newb: or if you have 0.3.21, try -dnsseed
2170 2011-05-22 18:46:50 <falafell> -dnsseed worked for me
2171 2011-05-22 18:46:56 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2172 2011-05-22 18:46:57 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.61,"low":5.8413,"vol":21813,"buy":6.4001,"sell":6.4695,"last":6.4008}}
2173 2011-05-22 18:47:00 <falafell> now back at over 60 connections :)
2174 2011-05-22 18:47:04 soossii has joined
2175 2011-05-22 18:48:59 cal97 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2176 2011-05-22 18:49:21 theboos has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2177 2011-05-22 18:49:26 <GER-newb> where can i type it in? sorry i am not that hackerkindofguy. on a mac btw
2178 2011-05-22 18:49:49 <jgarzik> GER-newb: I dunno how one supplies command line parameters to a Mac app
2179 2011-05-22 18:52:08 <BlueMatt> one must call /Applications/Bitcoin.app/Contents/MacOS/Bitcoin -dnsseed ... from terminal
2180 2011-05-22 18:52:18 <BlueMatt> .apps are actually folder
2181 2011-05-22 18:52:19 <BlueMatt> s
2182 2011-05-22 18:52:58 <nanotube> BlueMatt: i find -noirc connects pretty fast. :) the irc channel i understand is getting large and slow.
2183 2011-05-22 18:53:06 <BlueMatt> yep
2184 2011-05-22 18:53:08 <BlueMatt> which is a bug
2185 2011-05-22 18:53:28 <BlueMatt> dnsseed should be preferred and it should be dynamicly listed from the list of nodes on irc which are connectable
2186 2011-05-22 18:53:39 <BlueMatt> not that I feel like writing the code for that but...
2187 2011-05-22 18:53:40 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2188 2011-05-22 18:55:05 <nanotube> BlueMatt: heh yep, irc seeding is probably ripe for deprecation, or at least for moving to 'off' by default.
2189 2011-05-22 18:55:20 <nanotube> BlueMatt: file that issue, and i'll vote it up :)
2190 2011-05-22 18:55:44 <BlueMatt> irc seeding, yep...though you still need to get yourself out there so irc to advertise yourself to dnsseed servers IMHO
2191 2011-05-22 18:55:49 <BlueMatt> simplest and keeps backward compat
2192 2011-05-22 18:56:42 <BlueMatt> if only magicaltux would get back to me...
2193 2011-05-22 18:57:20 <BlueMatt> (he has a php half-node that already dumps known clients which accept incoming connections to mysql which makes it perfect for dnsseeds which can use pdns or whatever
2194 2011-05-22 18:57:23 <BlueMatt> _
2195 2011-05-22 18:57:25 <BlueMatt> )
2196 2011-05-22 18:57:49 <GER-newb> thanks bluematt i will try that
2197 2011-05-22 18:57:52 GER-newb has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2198 2011-05-22 18:59:56 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2199 2011-05-22 19:02:36 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2200 2011-05-22 19:04:11 gruez has joined
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2203 2011-05-22 19:04:33 BitterTea has joined
2204 2011-05-22 19:06:01 <BitterTea> Can anyone recommend a development enviroment for C++?
2205 2011-05-22 19:06:56 gruez has quit (Client Quit)
2206 2011-05-22 19:07:38 <BlueMatt> nano + g++?
2207 2011-05-22 19:07:58 <BlueMatt> though Im too lazy for that, I typically use gedit :)
2208 2011-05-22 19:08:14 <BitterTea> Hm, I'm new to C++, coming from C#
2209 2011-05-22 19:08:28 <BitterTea> I was hoping there might be an integrated coding/build environment
2210 2011-05-22 19:08:39 <lianj> BitterTea: which os?
2211 2011-05-22 19:08:40 <BitterTea> Or some tools packaged together to make it easier
2212 2011-05-22 19:08:56 <BitterTea> I have access to Windows and Linux and don't have a preference for which to develop with
2213 2011-05-22 19:09:08 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2214 2011-05-22 19:09:41 dukeleto has joined
2215 2011-05-22 19:10:49 <BlueMatt> there are a couple, but Im too lazy to use them
2216 2011-05-22 19:11:07 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2217 2011-05-22 19:11:09 <BlueMatt> netbeans or eclipse support c++ plugins
2218 2011-05-22 19:11:54 AStove has joined
2219 2011-05-22 19:12:39 <TD> doh
2220 2011-05-22 19:12:48 <lianj> BlueMatt: you prefer nano over vim/emacs?
2221 2011-05-22 19:12:52 <TD> call with parents earlier
2222 2011-05-22 19:13:01 <TD> "i read the bitcoin wikipedia article and at the bottom it said it was a scam"
2223 2011-05-22 19:13:06 <TD> "right underneath your name"
2224 2011-05-22 19:13:23 <BlueMatt> lol
2225 2011-05-22 19:13:26 <lianj> haha
2226 2011-05-22 19:13:40 <BlueMatt> lianj: meh, call me lazy but I cant be bothered to learn anything fancy
2227 2011-05-22 19:13:46 <BlueMatt> all i need is to be able to type and save
2228 2011-05-22 19:14:01 <BlueMatt> nano works fine and is no-learning-curve-friendly
2229 2011-05-22 19:14:01 <io-> work? atlas is an asp programmer, and nothing else. BlueMatt FACT
2230 2011-05-22 19:14:12 Guest49303 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2231 2011-05-22 19:14:18 <BlueMatt> what?
2232 2011-05-22 19:14:52 <BlueMatt> ENOPARSE
2233 2011-05-22 19:15:16 Titeuf_87 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2234 2011-05-22 19:16:02 <BitterTea> I think I'm going to try Code::Blocks
2235 2011-05-22 19:16:15 <BitterTea> sounds interesting
2236 2011-05-22 19:16:17 <lianj> good idea if you want an ide
2237 2011-05-22 19:16:35 <BitterTea> for now
2238 2011-05-22 19:16:53 <BitterTea> mostly, I'm addicted to code completion
2239 2011-05-22 19:18:09 <lianj> BlueMatt: getting productive with nano sounds hard :)
2240 2011-05-22 19:18:10 Titeuf_87 has joined
2241 2011-05-22 19:18:38 <lianj> for anything other than editing some config files
2242 2011-05-22 19:20:51 amiller has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2243 2011-05-22 19:24:44 ahbritto has joined
2244 2011-05-22 19:25:09 amiller has joined
2245 2011-05-22 19:26:09 <diki> i optimized my table a bit
2246 2011-05-22 19:26:14 <diki> added a few enums
2247 2011-05-22 19:26:23 <mtrlt> i installed bitcoin-mining-proxy on ip X. now where do i point my miners? ip X and port 80 does not work.
2248 2011-05-22 19:26:39 <mtrlt> hmm maybe i'll ask this at -mining instead
2249 2011-05-22 19:26:50 <diki> i installed komodia relay
2250 2011-05-22 19:26:57 <diki> it allows me to forward ports
2251 2011-05-22 19:27:21 <diki> however it seems to disappear sometime i.e the program closes on it's own if i forward port 80
2252 2011-05-22 19:29:05 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
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2258 2011-05-22 19:33:46 <deaf> About a 30-45 minutes ago I requested only .15 BTC from deepnet. I'm looking at my Bitcoin window and it says 5 connections 1002000 blocks 0 transactions. The amount of blocks are sky rocketing. Does anyone know what is happening?
2259 2011-05-22 19:35:06 <diki> no such pool as deepnet
2260 2011-05-22 19:35:26 Cusipzzz has joined
2261 2011-05-22 19:35:45 <TD> deaf: you're downloading the block chain
2262 2011-05-22 19:35:49 <diki> 1002000-there arent that many blocks
2263 2011-05-22 19:36:06 <TD> it's unfortunately something of a "rite of passage" currently. hopefully the need will be removed in the next few months
2264 2011-05-22 19:36:11 <TD> ;;bc
2265 2011-05-22 19:36:11 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
2266 2011-05-22 19:36:21 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,dongs
2267 2011-05-22 19:36:22 <gribble> Error: "bc,dongs" is not a valid command.
2268 2011-05-22 19:36:23 <Diablo-D3> fail
2269 2011-05-22 19:36:32 <diki> ;;google
2270 2011-05-22 19:36:32 <gribble> (google <search> [--{filter,language} <value>]) -- Searches google.com for the given string. As many results as can fit are included. --language accepts a language abbreviation; --filter accepts a filtering level ('active', 'moderate', 'off').
2271 2011-05-22 19:36:32 <TD> grah. i just want the block count
2272 2011-05-22 19:36:42 <diki> ;;google thongs
2273 2011-05-22 19:36:42 <gribble> Thong (clothing) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thong_(clothing)>; Thongs Daily - Daily thong pics: <http://www.thongsdaily.com/>; Thongs - Women's Thong - HerRoom: <http://www.herroom.com/thongs.aspx>
2274 2011-05-22 19:36:48 <TD> ok there are 125,829 blocks currently
2275 2011-05-22 19:36:52 <TD> so you have a while to wait yet
2276 2011-05-22 19:36:54 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,blocks
2277 2011-05-22 19:36:54 <gribble> 125829
2278 2011-05-22 19:36:56 <Diablo-D3> duh
2279 2011-05-22 19:36:58 <BlueMatt> diki: ?
2280 2011-05-22 19:37:06 <diki> ;;google diki
2281 2011-05-22 19:37:06 <gribble> Diki Lingerie: <http://www.dikilingerie.com/>; Silk Lingerie from Diki by Diane Rubach - Designer Lingerie: <http://www.ever-so-sexy.com/diki-silk-lingerie.html>; Diki Mcleod-Bakker (Diki) on Twitter: <http://twitter.com/Diki>
2282 2011-05-22 19:37:18 <BlueMatt> diki: might you do that out of the chan?
2283 2011-05-22 19:37:19 <Diablo-D3> dear god, diki is gay
2284 2011-05-22 19:37:20 d4de has joined
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2286 2011-05-22 19:37:20 d4de has joined
2287 2011-05-22 19:37:40 * diki spanks Diablo
2288 2011-05-22 19:37:56 * BlueMatt /kick's diki its ok to be gay, but leave us out of it
2289 2011-05-22 19:38:04 <diki> lol
2290 2011-05-22 19:38:16 <Diablo-D3> not every gay man can be as cool as george takei
2291 2011-05-22 19:38:29 <diki> or as DiabloD3 :P
2292 2011-05-22 19:38:44 <Diablo-D3> Im straight.
2293 2011-05-22 19:38:55 <diki> And I'm Str8
2294 2011-05-22 19:38:56 <BlueMatt> ...sure you are
2295 2011-05-22 19:39:11 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: I dunno man, my gf would be saddened if I was gay
2296 2011-05-22 19:39:36 <Diablo-D3> and she would probably spend long hours trying to turn me straight again, long hard work.
2297 2011-05-22 19:39:41 <BlueMatt> or you just dont want to admit it to yourself so you keep f'ing her and just never get satisfied
2298 2011-05-22 19:39:47 <diki> lol
2299 2011-05-22 19:40:00 <BlueMatt> because, deep down, you know you want men
2300 2011-05-22 19:40:05 GarrettB has left ()
2301 2011-05-22 19:40:11 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: I dunno, fucking her until she walks funny the next day is quite satisfying
2302 2011-05-22 19:40:12 <diki> ;;google I'm 18 do i have potential
2303 2011-05-22 19:40:13 <gribble> Im 18, do i have potential?? - Bodybuilding.com Forums: <http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=614033>; I'm 18, Do I Have Potential? | Know Your Meme: <http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/im-18-do-i-have-potential>; Soldierng4.jpg [5388] | I'm 18, Do I Have Potential? | Know Your Meme: <http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/5388-im-18-do-i-have-potential>
2304 2011-05-22 19:40:25 <BlueMatt> diki: seriously, keep that out of the chan
2305 2011-05-22 19:40:32 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: ...
2306 2011-05-22 19:41:29 <Diablo-D3> dude, if your chick isnt walking funny the next day and doesnt have dried blood under her fingernails, you're doing it wrong
2307 2011-05-22 19:42:09 <BlueMatt> walk funny...of course, dried blood?
2308 2011-05-22 19:42:21 fetokun has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2309 2011-05-22 19:42:51 <Diablo-D3> Im not going to explain that one to you
2310 2011-05-22 19:43:01 <BlueMatt> lol
2311 2011-05-22 19:44:10 wood_ is now known as wood
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2321 2011-05-22 19:57:11 joepie91 has joined
2322 2011-05-22 20:02:49 <tasha2> are there any open bitcoind's on testnet ?
2323 2011-05-22 20:02:57 <tasha2> i want to point a client to a remote bitcoind
2324 2011-05-22 20:07:27 <diki> i have a pool running there for testing
2325 2011-05-22 20:07:36 <diki> but not bitcoind
2326 2011-05-22 20:08:23 <tasha2> so does the pool only support a limited set of bitcoind commands?
2327 2011-05-22 20:10:08 GuruSteve has joined
2328 2011-05-22 20:10:35 Guest49303 has joined
2329 2011-05-22 20:11:57 <tasha2> or none at all?
2330 2011-05-22 20:14:00 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2331 2011-05-22 20:14:31 Kiba has joined
2332 2011-05-22 20:19:46 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2333 2011-05-22 20:21:15 wood_ has joined
2334 2011-05-22 20:30:38 <diki> miner talks to pool, pool talks to bitcoin
2335 2011-05-22 20:30:46 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2336 2011-05-22 20:31:00 <diki> Anyway, quite the lot of memes i'm seeing now :D
2337 2011-05-22 20:31:20 dukeleto has joined
2338 2011-05-22 20:36:19 <tasha2> is miner just doing getwork ?
2339 2011-05-22 20:36:29 MasterChief has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2340 2011-05-22 20:41:17 <tasha2> hm found a but in jsonRPCclient.php
2341 2011-05-22 20:41:43 <tasha2> echo nl2br(debug); should be: echo nl2br($this->debug);
2342 2011-05-22 20:42:01 eao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2343 2011-05-22 20:46:07 <diki> line breaks are a bitch...
2344 2011-05-22 20:48:22 <tasha2> well, my web client is alive... works on all the server commands that don't need args
2345 2011-05-22 20:48:48 <diki> how web is it?
2346 2011-05-22 20:48:52 <diki> is it a php miner?
2347 2011-05-22 20:48:56 <tasha2> even connecting to bitcoind on localhost, I still get time outs
2348 2011-05-22 20:49:13 <tasha2> it's a web interface to bitcoin
2349 2011-05-22 20:49:21 <diki> We need php miners
2350 2011-05-22 20:49:29 <diki> so we can start exploiting clouds and hosts
2351 2011-05-22 20:49:32 <tasha2> php-cpu-miner
2352 2011-05-22 20:49:51 <diki> link?
2353 2011-05-22 20:49:54 <tasha2> well, there's one or two javascript miners.. php can't be too far behind
2354 2011-05-22 20:50:03 <tasha2> no link.. i was just predicting
2355 2011-05-22 20:50:26 <tasha2> what are the basics a miner needs to do?
2356 2011-05-22 20:50:30 <diki> Oh man...and there are many many hosts out there with php support
2357 2011-05-22 20:50:47 <diki> >:]
2358 2011-05-22 20:51:02 <tasha2> connect to a bitcoind, getwork, do the work, send it back ?
2359 2011-05-22 20:51:11 WakiMiko has joined
2360 2011-05-22 20:51:13 <diki> yup
2361 2011-05-22 20:51:32 <tasha2> well, I got all except the ' do the work ' part
2362 2011-05-22 20:51:33 <tasha2> heh
2363 2011-05-22 20:52:02 <diki> send it back will be curl
2364 2011-05-22 20:52:08 <diki> it's easy as pie done in php
2365 2011-05-22 20:52:28 <tasha2> actually, a php miner wouldn't need a web interface... simple command line php call
2366 2011-05-22 20:52:46 <tasha2> connect, get, send is no worry, yes
2367 2011-05-22 20:53:02 <tasha2> dowork() I am not knowing what it does
2368 2011-05-22 20:53:55 <diki> function do_work($hash) { awww yeaahhhh }
2369 2011-05-22 20:54:21 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2370 2011-05-22 20:54:24 <tasha2> step 1 connect, step 2, getwork(), step3 dowork(), step4 PROFIT!
2371 2011-05-22 20:54:54 <diki> 1. Connect 2. Getwork 3. ???? 4. Profit
2372 2011-05-22 20:57:48 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2373 2011-05-22 20:57:50 <tasha2> hahah:
2374 2011-05-22 20:57:55 <tasha2> https://github.com/progranism/Bitcoin-JavaScript-Miner/blob/master/miner.js
2375 2011-05-22 20:58:05 <tasha2> // Returns a Golden Ticket (32-bit number) or false
2376 2011-05-22 20:58:10 <tasha2> I wanna GOLDEN TICKET!
2377 2011-05-22 20:58:35 <tasha2> ok, from that code, it doesn't look that hard to do
2378 2011-05-22 20:58:41 <tasha2> maybe it won't be fast or optimized
2379 2011-05-22 20:58:44 <tasha2> but workable
2380 2011-05-22 20:59:14 <tasha2> why hasn't anyone done this in php yet?
2381 2011-05-22 20:59:24 larsivi has joined
2382 2011-05-22 20:59:25 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2383 2011-05-22 20:59:41 larsivi has joined
2384 2011-05-22 20:59:45 <BlueMatt> why would you?
2385 2011-05-22 21:00:05 <BlueMatt> seriously cpuminer is 100% faster than anything you can ever do via a scripting language
2386 2011-05-22 21:00:12 <ninjaneo> er I'm trying to compile, but its saying I don't have db_cxx.h, but i do! /usr/include/db4.8/db_cxx.h
2387 2011-05-22 21:00:16 <BlueMatt> (probably more)
2388 2011-05-22 21:00:35 <BlueMatt> ninjaneo: check the paths, plus it recommends db4.7, but it doesnt really matter
2389 2011-05-22 21:00:54 <tasha2> doesn't matter if the mountain is small... some still want to climb it
2390 2011-05-22 21:00:56 <ninjaneo> do i need to make a symlink to /usr/include perhaps
2391 2011-05-22 21:01:12 <BlueMatt> or modify the makefile to point to the right place
2392 2011-05-22 21:01:31 <BlueMatt> tasha2: but when you get there you get...nothing?
2393 2011-05-22 21:01:41 <ninjaneo> oh i think that was it, i think it wanted the symlink
2394 2011-05-22 21:01:55 <tasha2> you get the satisfaction of a nice stroll, and a nice view from the top of the mountain
2395 2011-05-22 21:02:05 <tasha2> doh!
2396 2011-05-22 21:02:50 <BlueMatt> there are way more productive additions you can do for bitcoin
2397 2011-05-22 21:03:00 <BlueMatt> god knows we need them
2398 2011-05-22 21:03:01 chmod755 has joined
2399 2011-05-22 21:03:12 <tasha2> so you're against the javascript-miner also?
2400 2011-05-22 21:03:27 <BlueMatt> wait, you are doing a js-miner I thought you were doing one in php?
2401 2011-05-22 21:03:38 <tasha2> i'm not doing any miner.. we're just chatting
2402 2011-05-22 21:03:47 <tasha2> i'm working on php-based web interface now
2403 2011-05-22 21:03:52 <BlueMatt> well either way, js-miner is more worhtless than built-in miner
2404 2011-05-22 21:04:11 <BlueMatt> (and IIRC one exists)
2405 2011-05-22 21:04:12 <tasha2> js-miner is a bottom-feeder
2406 2011-05-22 21:04:33 <diki> can you guys do a google miner?
2407 2011-05-22 21:04:37 <diki> I want to mine googles
2408 2011-05-22 21:04:45 <BlueMatt> miner that runs on google apps
2409 2011-05-22 21:04:55 <tasha2> you mean google apps engine?
2410 2011-05-22 21:04:57 <chmod755> diki: NASDAQ:GOOGs?
2411 2011-05-22 21:05:36 <tasha2> cpu mining surely... who knows about gpu, etc
2412 2011-05-22 21:05:43 <tasha2> http://code.google.com/appengine/
2413 2011-05-22 21:06:17 <diki> how about mining with our monitors?
2414 2011-05-22 21:06:37 <diki> and a small gif pic showing a pickaxe trying to break a block?
2415 2011-05-22 21:06:48 <chmod755> lol
2416 2011-05-22 21:07:22 * chmod755 starts his microwave-minerd
2417 2011-05-22 21:07:48 <tasha2> http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=4899
2418 2011-05-22 21:08:07 <tasha2> every embedded chip mining away
2419 2011-05-22 21:08:55 <diki> i smell a hidden subject on that page
2420 2011-05-22 21:09:01 <diki> a miner undercover
2421 2011-05-22 21:09:13 <tasha2> me too
2422 2011-05-22 21:11:14 _Netsniper_ is now known as Netsniper
2423 2011-05-22 21:13:24 <tasha2> in other news..
2424 2011-05-22 21:13:28 <tasha2> testnet is fun, if slow
2425 2011-05-22 21:13:31 <tasha2> [category] => immature [amount] => 50
2426 2011-05-22 21:13:53 <tasha2> [confirmations] => 47
2427 2011-05-22 21:13:59 <tasha2> it's gonna be another few days for that to mature
2428 2011-05-22 21:16:02 darkmethod has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2429 2011-05-22 21:16:33 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
2430 2011-05-22 21:16:54 jargon has joined
2431 2011-05-22 21:17:55 <jargon> Is it okay to retail rogue total rewrites of bitcoin in here?
2432 2011-05-22 21:18:37 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2433 2011-05-22 21:18:37 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.72,"low":5.9002,"vol":23342,"buy":6.7,"sell":6.72,"last":6.6856}}
2434 2011-05-22 21:18:56 <jargon> I was going to put up for sale a compeletist rewrite of bitcoin that defeats the difficulty calculation
2435 2011-05-22 21:19:03 <soultcer> How about mining in Postscript?
2436 2011-05-22 21:19:10 <jargon> for 5000$
2437 2011-05-22 21:19:17 <jargon> 5000 USD that is
2438 2011-05-22 21:19:28 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2439 2011-05-22 21:19:30 <soultcer> Submit a print job for $0,10 per copy and get a 50 BTC hash printed out :O
2440 2011-05-22 21:20:06 <luke-jr> soultcer: WIN
2441 2011-05-22 21:20:14 <jargon> I am pretty sure my rewrite could hash 5 billion bitcoins in just 3 days
2442 2011-05-22 21:20:35 <jargon> So much for inflation.
2443 2011-05-22 21:20:43 <luke-jr> jargon: do it
2444 2011-05-22 21:20:53 <luke-jr> wait, 5 mil BTC?
2445 2011-05-22 21:20:55 <luke-jr> that's impossible
2446 2011-05-22 21:20:57 <jargon> luke-jr, actually, billion
2447 2011-05-22 21:21:10 <luke-jr> you could only get to like 5000 or so at best
2448 2011-05-22 21:21:15 <JFK911> good luck
2449 2011-05-22 21:21:25 <jargon> Predictive algorithms
2450 2011-05-22 21:21:36 <jargon> Plus inline streamlining
2451 2011-05-22 21:21:42 <luke-jr> SHA256 isn't
2452 2011-05-22 21:21:54 <gmaxwell> jargon: Are you named after your output?
2453 2011-05-22 21:22:30 <jargon> And yes, it is possible to collesce 5 billion bitcoins
2454 2011-05-22 21:22:34 <tasha2> jargon: pretty sure? be easy to test it to be sure, yes?
2455 2011-05-22 21:22:38 <gmaxwell> No. It's not.
2456 2011-05-22 21:22:48 <gmaxwell> It doesn't matter how fast your hash is.
2457 2011-05-22 21:22:57 <gmaxwell> You're spewing nonsense.
2458 2011-05-22 21:23:10 <luke-jr> ^
2459 2011-05-22 21:23:21 random_cat has joined
2460 2011-05-22 21:23:43 <jargon> The max bitcoin total has been exceeded already anyhoo.
2461 2011-05-22 21:23:45 <midnightmagic> lol, jargon I highly recommend you give it a try.
2462 2011-05-22 21:23:45 <lfm> jargon: well considering there will never be more than 21 million bitcoins ever produced, that would be a neat trick
2463 2011-05-22 21:23:50 <luke-jr> not to mention, if you even began to, the value would drop so fast it'd be worthless
2464 2011-05-22 21:24:25 Tritonio has joined
2465 2011-05-22 21:24:28 lulzplzk1hx has joined
2466 2011-05-22 21:24:32 <jargon> Exactly, eveyone's wallets are worthless except the ones that use the mod.
2467 2011-05-22 21:24:34 <tasha2> what happens when you run bitcoind with -nolisten option? It will only use -connect ?
2468 2011-05-22 21:24:43 <midnightmagic> lfm: actually the total is now 20999999.97689999
2469 2011-05-22 21:24:49 <gmaxwell> jargon: you're still spewing nonsense.
2470 2011-05-22 21:25:02 <lfm> tasha2: ya
2471 2011-05-22 21:25:12 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: lol
2472 2011-05-22 21:25:22 <lfm> midnightmagic: and there are already 5 million issued (or so)
2473 2011-05-22 21:25:23 <midnightmagic> jargon if you care about ฿, you will do this sooner, rather than later.
2474 2011-05-22 21:25:30 <midnightmagic> lfm: minus 1 Satoshi..
2475 2011-05-22 21:25:30 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: calling bullshit
2476 2011-05-22 21:25:49 stex131 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2477 2011-05-22 21:25:50 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: if you'd found that amazing an improvement to implementing sha256 you'd already have published a paper on it.
2478 2011-05-22 21:25:52 <tasha2> so if I want to run bitcoind in very low-traffic mode, I'd use -nolisten -noirc -connect host ?
2479 2011-05-22 21:25:55 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: you calculated that wrong
2480 2011-05-22 21:26:07 <midnightmagic> lfm: I mined block 124724 and underpaid myself by 1 Satoshi.
2481 2011-05-22 21:26:09 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: oh?
2482 2011-05-22 21:26:17 <luke-jr> wait what?
2483 2011-05-22 21:26:20 <jargon> jrmithdobbs, no, I wouldn't have.
2484 2011-05-22 21:26:22 <luke-jr> you can underreward?
2485 2011-05-22 21:26:32 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: course. I did it in honour of our missing Satoshi.
2486 2011-05-22 21:26:33 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: so prove it.
2487 2011-05-22 21:26:34 <gmaxwell> jargon: In any case if you have code that makes SHA256 enough faster that it could solve 10 million blocks at the current difficulty in three days and you can demonstrate it to me,
2488 2011-05-22 21:26:38 * Kiba yawn
2489 2011-05-22 21:26:40 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea, you can underreward down to 0
2490 2011-05-22 21:26:45 <luke-jr> ouch
2491 2011-05-22 21:26:48 <gmaxwell> jargon: I'll pay you $50,000 for it, so long as you stop talking about it on IRC.
2492 2011-05-22 21:26:48 <midnightmagic> not so.
2493 2011-05-22 21:26:54 <midnightmagic> if a miner wants to do it, why stop them?
2494 2011-05-22 21:27:14 <tasha2> hmm -noirc option is not in the --help list
2495 2011-05-22 21:27:15 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: he has some other way of doing it, i'm sure, that he thinks will work.
2496 2011-05-22 21:27:15 <jargon> gmaxwell, the difficulty rating is bull anyhoo.
2497 2011-05-22 21:27:18 <tasha2> but is on the wiki
2498 2011-05-22 21:27:20 <lfm> midnightmagic: why? just to see if you could?
2499 2011-05-22 21:27:37 <ArtForzZz> jargon: sorry, I call BS on your BS
2500 2011-05-22 21:27:51 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: him and bluematt wanted to fuck wit hthe people keeping running totals of total btc in circulation by throwing their calcs off by 1 satoshi
2501 2011-05-22 21:27:54 <jrmithdobbs> lol
2502 2011-05-22 21:27:54 <midnightmagic> lfm: partly as a joke, partly to be the first to do it, partly to try to break things, partly to prove I could, and mostly as an honour to Satoshi, who stopped talking to us in December.
2503 2011-05-22 21:28:01 <BlueMatt> I call BS on ArtForzZz's BS of calling BS
2504 2011-05-22 21:28:12 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2505 2011-05-22 21:28:15 <jargon> The difficulty rating is a bastard unit of measure that doesn't take into account prediction and simplification
2506 2011-05-22 21:28:19 <BlueMatt> hell, it broek blockexplorer
2507 2011-05-22 21:28:24 <gmaxwell> jargon: fine, if you can solve the partial colisions fast then it doesn't matter. I'm offering you a lot of money for a solution. I'm not kidding and I'll gladly sign any cryptographic promises you like, but you need to stop blabbing about it here.
2508 2011-05-22 21:28:33 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: so go gen 20 blocks in the next 30 minutes
2509 2011-05-22 21:28:38 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: all you have to do to prove it
2510 2011-05-22 21:28:42 <ArtForzZz> gmaxwell: he won't. because he can't.
2511 2011-05-22 21:28:43 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: ok but its not really any different than the "lost" coins due to hard drive crashes and such I guess
2512 2011-05-22 21:28:49 <gmaxwell> ArtForzZz: sssh.
2513 2011-05-22 21:28:52 <ArtForzZz> well, feel free to pay a few grand to the scammer.
2514 2011-05-22 21:29:03 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: it's different in that they were never put into circulation at all
2515 2011-05-22 21:29:10 <gmaxwell> ArtForzZz: obviously I'd make him prove it.
2516 2011-05-22 21:29:13 <jargon> sec...
2517 2011-05-22 21:29:20 <ArtForzZz> btw, I have a magic box that can break any crypto in an instant, I also have a few nice bridges for sale.
2518 2011-05-22 21:29:40 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: 125850 is current block, make it jump to 125830 by 16:43 CST
2519 2011-05-22 21:29:42 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: go
2520 2011-05-22 21:29:43 <midnightmagic> lfm: it is now missing from the blockchain forever. no missing keys, no dead-end payments. just gone..
2521 2011-05-22 21:29:44 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: plus the anal accountants that try to balance every block exactly will pull out their hair! grin
2522 2011-05-22 21:29:44 <tasha2> just call: Setec Astronomy
2523 2011-05-22 21:29:49 <Clipse> I am selling real estate on planet vagina, its prime property since no one but me know the location.
2524 2011-05-22 21:29:52 <Clipse> apply here <---
2525 2011-05-22 21:29:55 <gmaxwell> Cooties rat semen.
2526 2011-05-22 21:29:59 <midnightmagic> lfm: and I miss Satoshi, even though I never got to talk to him.
2527 2011-05-22 21:30:24 <jargon> http://thekealshow.butcherartist.com/src/?i=Sententia+Surres+-+The+Free+Open+Source+Weapons+System+Framework+-+Constellation+Module
2528 2011-05-22 21:30:33 <jargon> That is easily used to predict hashes
2529 2011-05-22 21:30:50 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: 125850 is current block, make it jump to 125830 by 16:43 CST
2530 2011-05-22 21:30:53 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: go
2531 2011-05-22 21:30:53 <ArtForzZz> ROFL
2532 2011-05-22 21:31:01 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2533 2011-05-22 21:31:07 <jrmithdobbs> erm 880
2534 2011-05-22 21:31:23 echelon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2535 2011-05-22 21:31:28 <jargon> And remember, I haven't yet posted anywhere my mod for the vector standard
2536 2011-05-22 21:32:01 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: 125850 is current block, make it jump to 125880 by 16:43 CST
2537 2011-05-22 21:32:06 <ArtForzZz> yeah, yeah.
2538 2011-05-22 21:32:10 dx25 has joined
2539 2011-05-22 21:32:26 <tasha2> do it on testnet... it'll be faster demonstration
2540 2011-05-22 21:32:26 <lfm> jargon: yes yes we are all quaking in our boots at the prospect of your hacking genius. can we change the subject now?
2541 2011-05-22 21:32:32 <ArtForzZz> ohhh, cool-sounding pseudoscientific babble, here's my money!
2542 2011-05-22 21:32:39 <tasha2> currently at 19748 blocks... make it go to 20000
2543 2011-05-22 21:32:44 <midnightmagic> jargon: you should post a hash of it so we can check afterwards and admit you did in fact have something that hashed to that value, in the here and now..
2544 2011-05-22 21:33:03 <jargon> Are you guys and gals 14 years old or something, you sure seem to mouth off like kiddos.
2545 2011-05-22 21:33:19 <ArtForzZz> jargon: extraordinary claims. extraordinary proof.
2546 2011-05-22 21:33:23 <lfm> yes we are all 14 years old
2547 2011-05-22 21:33:28 <midnightmagic> i think politeness would be more civil. he's not been specifically rude to anyone yet. :)
2548 2011-05-22 21:33:29 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: we're fairly confident in your inability to break sha256 is all
2549 2011-05-22 21:33:41 <ArtForzZz> but from your "let's throw a few cool-sounging snippets around" ... just ordinary proof would be a miracle
2550 2011-05-22 21:33:45 <gmaxwell> jargon: Er. You realize that you're walking away from 50 grand by continuing to blabber in here rather than demonstrating your system to me, right?
2551 2011-05-22 21:34:20 <Clipse> im 12 and take offense to the 14year old age attached to me
2552 2011-05-22 21:34:24 <gmaxwell> jargon: that strongly suggest that even _you_ know you're full of it.
2553 2011-05-22 21:34:28 dx25 has quit (Client Quit)
2554 2011-05-22 21:34:45 <jargon> break sha256, when I already broke RSA4096?
2555 2011-05-22 21:34:46 <lfm> gmaxwell: why dont you just say it, we know you want to (the good ole "if you're so smart why aint ya rich?" line)
2556 2011-05-22 21:35:16 <lfm> oh dear we are not worthy
2557 2011-05-22 21:35:26 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: and he's walking away from another ~$6300usd at current exchange by not just genning 30 blocks on the live network like i asked ;P
2558 2011-05-22 21:35:34 <ArtForzZz> yeah, you broke rsa4096. you're like *so* hardcore.
2559 2011-05-22 21:36:22 <BitterTea> I just want to say: lol
2560 2011-05-22 21:36:32 <jargon> brb need to get my beretta and look outside
2561 2011-05-22 21:36:36 <lfm> jargon: did you get the cheque from Ron Rivest yet for that rsa4096?
2562 2011-05-22 21:36:40 <ArtForzZz> really, breaking rsa4096 is trivial
2563 2011-05-22 21:36:41 <Clipse> im confused thats all, he does know this channel is recorded
2564 2011-05-22 21:36:51 <ArtForzZz> you just roundhouse kick the composite until a prime falls out
2565 2011-05-22 21:36:58 <gmaxwell> hahah
2566 2011-05-22 21:37:05 eao has joined
2567 2011-05-22 21:37:06 <BitterTea> ArtForzZz: Is that the method Chuck Norris pioneered?
2568 2011-05-22 21:37:09 <ArtForzZz> yep
2569 2011-05-22 21:37:15 <ninjaneo> anyone spot something wrong with: int ReadHTTP(std::basic_istream<char>&, std::map<std::basic_string<char>, std::basic_string<char> >&, std::string&)
2570 2011-05-22 21:37:19 <Kiba> hmm
2571 2011-05-22 21:37:27 <Clipse> it was originally known as the RSAound kick
2572 2011-05-22 21:37:35 <lfm> ArtForzZz: yup, Chuck Norris did it twice in an afternoon
2573 2011-05-22 21:37:35 <ninjaneo> specifically isn't happy about the first argument
2574 2011-05-22 21:39:00 <jargon> Some idiots just walked into the first gate to my bunker.
2575 2011-05-22 21:39:29 <jargon> They left fast when they realized there was actually someone occupying it.
2576 2011-05-22 21:39:42 <lfm> Is that the gate that you have Chuck Norris guarding?
2577 2011-05-22 21:39:44 <gmaxwell> jargon: thats my ninja team. Sorry. I got them at a discount from someone else on IRC.
2578 2011-05-22 21:39:58 <ArtForzZz> never trust discount ninjas
2579 2011-05-22 21:40:16 <jargon> I am sorry let me introduce myself.
2580 2011-05-22 21:40:19 <ArtForzZz> you get what you pay for
2581 2011-05-22 21:40:38 <jargon> My name is Timothy Robert Keal (TuRK, alias jargon, et all)
2582 2011-05-22 21:40:55 <jargon> I write cryptography defeats for the DARPA TTO.
2583 2011-05-22 21:41:14 <ArtForzZz> my name is ArtForz, I am a professional bullshit caller.
2584 2011-05-22 21:41:20 <ArtForzZz> *calls bullshit*
2585 2011-05-22 21:41:25 <ArtForzZz> that'd be $5, please
2586 2011-05-22 21:41:37 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: aspie spotted
2587 2011-05-22 21:41:41 <Clipse> I see no dr or phd to your name, cant trust you, I only trust the Doctahz
2588 2011-05-22 21:41:50 <chmod755> ArtForzZz: lol, who bought that?
2589 2011-05-22 21:42:00 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: making these kinds of claims and attaching your name to them when your name is all over retard forums is not gonna work
2590 2011-05-22 21:42:01 <jargon> I'm not in the autism/aspergers spectrum, though I am legally criminally insane.
2591 2011-05-22 21:42:03 <BitterTea> jargon: I don't think your qualifications matter, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
2592 2011-05-22 21:42:13 <gmaxwell> Clipse: no need for credentials, he just needs to present partial collisions.
2593 2011-05-22 21:42:17 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: go back to trying to figure out how to make girls like you or something
2594 2011-05-22 21:42:32 <ArtForzZz> jrmithdobbs: breaking sha256 would probably be easier...
2595 2011-05-22 21:42:43 <ninjaneo> rofl classified php
2596 2011-05-22 21:42:59 <ninjaneo> thats the funniest thing i've seen yet jargon
2597 2011-05-22 21:43:03 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForzZz: for him? ya
2598 2011-05-22 21:43:04 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
2599 2011-05-22 21:43:06 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForzZz: heh
2600 2011-05-22 21:43:13 <ArtForzZz> jrmithdobbs: ofc
2601 2011-05-22 21:43:36 kika_ has joined
2602 2011-05-22 21:43:45 <BitterTea> Hey, is there a VM image with a preconfigured bitcoin build environment? (not an amazon image)
2603 2011-05-22 21:43:46 <jargon> The only reason you wish me to immediately demonstrate the block solutions is so that you may locate the source within this LAN.
2604 2011-05-22 21:43:47 trekdanne has joined
2605 2011-05-22 21:43:51 <lfm> Timothy Robert Keal alias jargon of IDEALGENERATION.NET?
2606 2011-05-22 21:44:16 <ArtForzZz> lfm: crackpot aka total loonie aka timecube guy has nothing on him
2607 2011-05-22 21:44:17 <kika_> Diablo-D3: using poclbm i get "hardware vertification error" when trying to use the second GPU, you helped me to solve this, i think i had to unisntall the SDK?
2608 2011-05-22 21:44:21 <jargon> idealgeneration.net never existed and never has.
2609 2011-05-22 21:44:51 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2610 2011-05-22 21:44:56 <BitterTea> jargon: Look at it from our point of view. Why should we believe you?
2611 2011-05-22 21:44:58 <jargon> Diablo-D3, ^5/bro-fist/rump-butt, sup man?
2612 2011-05-22 21:45:00 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForzZz: lol timecube
2613 2011-05-22 21:45:02 <lfm> jargon but it own the copyright on your work
2614 2011-05-22 21:45:23 <Kiba> hmm
2615 2011-05-22 21:45:25 <ninjaneo> we can see the processes you are running Jargon! look out!
2616 2011-05-22 21:45:45 <jrmithdobbs> jargon: i'm inside ur bus sniffin ur traffic
2617 2011-05-22 21:45:54 <Clipse> eww
2618 2011-05-22 21:46:07 OneFixt has joined
2619 2011-05-22 21:46:10 <DrDeke> jargon you are epically ridiculous; you are aware of such, yes/
2620 2011-05-22 21:46:11 <Clipse> that could be interpreted in so many bad ways
2621 2011-05-22 21:46:11 OneFixt has quit (Changing host)
2622 2011-05-22 21:46:11 OneFixt has joined
2623 2011-05-22 21:46:31 <DrDeke> OMG SOMEONE OPEN A SOCKET AND RUN A TRACE
2624 2011-05-22 21:46:40 <DrDeke> GIVE ME A SOCKET!!!!!!!!!!!1eleven
2625 2011-05-22 21:46:41 <gmaxwell> jargon: I'm concerned that you may have been educated stupid. Are you aware of the cubic truth?
2626 2011-05-22 21:46:45 <jrmithdobbs> ip address located
2627 2011-05-22 21:46:45 <ArtForzZz> ninjaneo: shh, init(1) is watching us
2628 2011-05-22 21:46:50 <ninjaneo> lol
2629 2011-05-22 21:47:07 <jargon> pop this into any G2 or newer phone if you really need help kicking whatever drugs you use: http://thekealshow.butcherartist.com/pk/2002/
2630 2011-05-22 21:47:17 sethsethseth____ has joined
2631 2011-05-22 21:47:19 sethsethseth____ is now known as sethsethseth_
2632 2011-05-22 21:47:33 <ArtForzZz> I vote we keep the guy, he's entertaining
2633 2011-05-22 21:47:35 <kika_> does anyone know how to solve "verification failed, check hardware!" on windows xp ? for poclbm when trying to use the 2nd gpu on a 6990 card?¡
2634 2011-05-22 21:47:44 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForzZz: pretty boring
2635 2011-05-22 21:47:48 <DrDeke> yes kika_, first you put the 6990 in the mail to me....
2636 2011-05-22 21:47:52 <DrDeke> (j/k)
2637 2011-05-22 21:47:53 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForzZz: he doesn't even react to direct provocation
2638 2011-05-22 21:48:00 <BitterTea> jargon: WTF?
2639 2011-05-22 21:48:00 <diki> lol 5 billion hashes in 3 days...
2640 2011-05-22 21:48:07 <kika_> DrDeke: ?
2641 2011-05-22 21:48:13 <DrDeke> i was joking around
2642 2011-05-22 21:48:17 <kika_> hehe ok
2643 2011-05-22 21:48:17 <diki> It's OVER 9000!
2644 2011-05-22 21:48:18 <jargon> let that webcomic be a reminder what happens after so many such and such years of what-not drug use.
2645 2011-05-22 21:48:24 <kika_> can someone please help me?
2646 2011-05-22 21:48:31 <diki> kika:?
2647 2011-05-22 21:48:36 <kika_> does anyone know how to solve "verification failed, check hardware!" on windows xp ? for poclbm when trying to use the 2nd gpu on a 6990 card?¡
2648 2011-05-22 21:48:43 <kika_> diki
2649 2011-05-22 21:49:01 <diki> something may be wrong with the .cl file
2650 2011-05-22 21:49:03 <ArtForzZz> kika_: thats crossfire fucking things up, try a diff miner
2651 2011-05-22 21:49:04 <mtrlt> kika_: use windows 7.
2652 2011-05-22 21:49:09 <diki> i found that tweaking it causes this error
2653 2011-05-22 21:49:23 <kika_> ArtForzZz: but this works on my other pc, i just moved the card to a different pc
2654 2011-05-22 21:49:26 <diki> Also, kika, didn't you start your own pool?
2655 2011-05-22 21:49:30 <lfm> kika_: not sure if that is real hardware error or software error. in any case back off any overclocking to start with
2656 2011-05-22 21:49:33 <kika_> ArtForzZz: which miner do you recommend
2657 2011-05-22 21:49:36 <jargon> And yes, that webcomic url is G2 low-res, crap-cake image quality phone friendly.
2658 2011-05-22 21:49:37 <ArtForzZz> well, yes, if you make the .cl kernel return bullshit, the mienr will complain that the cl kernel is returning bullshit
2659 2011-05-22 21:50:05 <diki> any optimizations for it?
2660 2011-05-22 21:50:09 <diki> the kernl
2661 2011-05-22 21:50:10 <jargon> It is also friendly for the blind as well.
2662 2011-05-22 21:50:19 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2663 2011-05-22 21:50:19 <kika_> it works for the 1st gpu BTW and on the other pc the card works well with poclbm
2664 2011-05-22 21:50:21 sethsethseth___ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2665 2011-05-22 21:50:31 <diki> did you disable crossfire?
2666 2011-05-22 21:50:41 <kika_> diki: i have only 1 card
2667 2011-05-22 21:50:44 <diki> oh..
2668 2011-05-22 21:50:49 <ArtForzZz> diki: yes, don't fuck with it unless you know what your are doing ;)
2669 2011-05-22 21:50:52 <kika_> diki: where i can disable crossfire?
2670 2011-05-22 21:51:00 <kika_> im on win xp
2671 2011-05-22 21:51:03 <diki> if you don't have 2 gpus..
2672 2011-05-22 21:51:06 <diki> then no need to
2673 2011-05-22 21:51:12 <kika_> diki: 6990 has 2 gpus
2674 2011-05-22 21:51:15 <diki> Artforz: mind sharing?
2675 2011-05-22 21:51:15 <DrDeke> well i mean the 6990 has two separate GPUs on one card, right?
2676 2011-05-22 21:51:17 <ArtForzZz> diki: he has a 6990, thats 2 GPUs by definition
2677 2011-05-22 21:51:18 <kika_> diki: i have a 6990 card
2678 2011-05-22 21:51:30 <DrDeke> 2gpus1card
2679 2011-05-22 21:51:30 <diki> 2 cards then..
2680 2011-05-22 21:51:37 echelon has joined
2681 2011-05-22 21:51:38 <ArtForzZz> DrDeke: lol
2682 2011-05-22 21:51:41 <DrDeke> :P
2683 2011-05-22 21:51:41 <kika_> so i still need to disable crosffire?
2684 2011-05-22 21:51:45 <diki> no
2685 2011-05-22 21:51:53 <diki> Did you make a pool?
2686 2011-05-22 21:52:33 <diki> Cause i remember when you asked jgarzik about stuff
2687 2011-05-22 21:53:27 sanchom has joined
2688 2011-05-22 21:53:37 <sanchom> the windows phoenix binary doesn't run for me. i get a "failed loading pyopencl" error
2689 2011-05-22 21:54:26 dehello has joined
2690 2011-05-22 21:54:37 <dehello> Hello guys
2691 2011-05-22 21:54:48 <lfm> sanchom: you installed the opencl sdk?
2692 2011-05-22 21:54:53 <sanchom> i didn't
2693 2011-05-22 21:54:56 <sanchom> link?
2694 2011-05-22 21:55:03 lumos has joined
2695 2011-05-22 21:55:03 <lfm> adm.com
2696 2011-05-22 21:55:08 <lfm> amd.com
2697 2011-05-22 21:55:15 <sanchom> thanks
2698 2011-05-22 21:55:27 <diki> i hope bulldozer is worth the wait
2699 2011-05-22 21:55:31 <diki> time to beat 2600l
2700 2011-05-22 21:55:33 <diki> time to beat 2600k
2701 2011-05-22 21:55:52 dehello has quit (Client Quit)
2702 2011-05-22 21:56:16 <diki> The high end FX processor which is 8 cores...well not exactly, modules or something will be 3.8Ghz stock
2703 2011-05-22 21:56:21 <diki> with turbo on it will go to 4.2
2704 2011-05-22 21:56:21 pnicholson has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2705 2011-05-22 21:56:37 <ArtForzZz> thats still not over 9000!
2706 2011-05-22 21:56:42 <diki> it is
2707 2011-05-22 21:56:46 ezl has joined
2708 2011-05-22 21:56:59 <diki> turn them ghz to hz :D
2709 2011-05-22 21:57:19 <ArtForzZz> also... why only 8 cores?
2710 2011-05-22 21:57:36 <diki> that's all the shrink to 32nm can do?
2711 2011-05-22 21:57:47 <diki> i retract that statement
2712 2011-05-22 21:57:51 <diki> this is for consumers
2713 2011-05-22 21:57:57 <diki> the server will feature more
2714 2011-05-22 21:57:57 <ArtForzZz> opteron goes to 12, because 11 just wasn't hardcore enough. ;)
2715 2011-05-22 21:58:09 <diki> and they will be cheap
2716 2011-05-22 21:58:14 <diki> 320 dollars for the high end one
2717 2011-05-22 21:58:19 <diki> the high-high end one
2718 2011-05-22 21:58:31 <ArtForzZz> what about the mid-low-high end one?
2719 2011-05-22 21:58:58 <jrmithdobbs> what are you talking about
2720 2011-05-22 21:59:26 <jrmithdobbs> oh nm
2721 2011-05-22 21:59:30 <lfm> the one for $100
2722 2011-05-22 22:00:20 <ArtForzZz> and the northwest-of-5th end one?
2723 2011-05-22 22:00:41 AStove has joined
2724 2011-05-22 22:01:23 <lfm> will it support middleendian floating point formats?
2725 2011-05-22 22:01:27 <ArtForzZz> just making fun about end inflation in the computer market
2726 2011-05-22 22:02:05 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,gen 300000
2727 2011-05-22 22:02:06 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 1.23596770264 BTC per day and 0.0514986542766 BTC per hour.
2728 2011-05-22 22:02:23 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2729 2011-05-22 22:02:31 darbsllim_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2730 2011-05-22 22:06:19 <diki> ;;bc,gen [bc,eligius]
2731 2011-05-22 22:06:22 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 44696292.9937 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 184.143915226 BTC per day and 7.67266313443 BTC per hour.
2732 2011-05-22 22:06:32 <diki> ;;bc,gen [bc,eligius]+[bc,deepbit]
2733 2011-05-22 22:06:48 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calc 300000
2734 2011-05-22 22:06:55 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 45412120.8764 + 1082507000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 21663895029940280259178194270544549811834480256685049477086983947326526062592 BTC per day and 902662292914178310654548839210392168368893086920989508999395293997087850496 BTC per hour.
2735 2011-05-22 22:06:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 5 weeks, 5 days, 10 hours, 53 minutes, and 56 seconds
2736 2011-05-22 22:07:00 ZenMondo has joined
2737 2011-05-22 22:07:03 soossii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2738 2011-05-22 22:07:14 <lfm> wtg diki
2739 2011-05-22 22:07:15 <jrmithdobbs> integer overflow is fun
2740 2011-05-22 22:07:30 <diki> that is over nine thousand
2741 2011-05-22 22:07:47 <kika_> do you guys have idea
2742 2011-05-22 22:07:55 <kika_> why poclbm is not working fine on win xp
2743 2011-05-22 22:08:01 <kika_> i ran this card on a win 7
2744 2011-05-22 22:08:03 <kika_> with poclbm
2745 2011-05-22 22:08:04 soossii has joined
2746 2011-05-22 22:08:06 <diki> because windows XP is an old OS
2747 2011-05-22 22:08:09 <jrmithdobbs> because windows
2748 2011-05-22 22:08:09 <kika_> and it worked fine
2749 2011-05-22 22:08:17 <kika_> now i moved the card to another pc with win xp
2750 2011-05-22 22:08:29 <kika_> and for the second gpu it gives "vertification failed, check hardware" after a few seconds
2751 2011-05-22 22:08:47 <diki> Look, XP is old, it may not support multi-gpu cards
2752 2011-05-22 22:08:54 <kika_> whats the fastest miner for a 6990 card on linux?
2753 2011-05-22 22:09:04 <phantomcircuit> diki, are you serious?
2754 2011-05-22 22:09:19 <lfm> kika_: yup, it does that
2755 2011-05-22 22:09:23 <diki> i am guessing
2756 2011-05-22 22:09:27 <mtrlt> kika_: still, get windows 7 :P
2757 2011-05-22 22:09:36 <mtrlt> kika_: or use a very old poclbm that can't be found anywhere
2758 2011-05-22 22:09:43 <diki> but still, xp is old and more prone to virus infections
2759 2011-05-22 22:10:01 <diki> lacks the graphical improvements of Windows 7
2760 2011-05-22 22:10:13 <diki> and the improved defragmenter
2761 2011-05-22 22:10:17 <mtrlt> graphical improvements pssh
2762 2011-05-22 22:10:22 <mtrlt> i always turn that shit off
2763 2011-05-22 22:10:25 <phantomcircuit> diki, lol are you serious?
2764 2011-05-22 22:10:31 <phantomcircuit> diki, they hardly improved anything
2765 2011-05-22 22:10:43 <kika_> why not linux?
2766 2011-05-22 22:10:51 <kika_> im planing to install linux on it
2767 2011-05-22 22:10:52 <phantomcircuit> just slapped on another layer of security bullshit that doesn't work and all that transparent shit
2768 2011-05-22 22:11:17 lumos has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2769 2011-05-22 22:11:24 <tasha2> erg
2770 2011-05-22 22:11:53 <tasha2> jsonRPCClient.php is difficult with multiple arguement
2771 2011-05-22 22:11:58 <kika_> whats the best miner for linux?
2772 2011-05-22 22:12:56 <diki> phantom what did they not improve?
2773 2011-05-22 22:13:03 <phantomcircuit> diki, anything?
2774 2011-05-22 22:13:04 <phantomcircuit> lol
2775 2011-05-22 22:13:21 <diki> pic or it didn't happen
2776 2011-05-22 22:13:28 <phantomcircuit> they improved WGA
2777 2011-05-22 22:13:57 <erbs> wuttup dude
2778 2011-05-22 22:14:15 <diki> wga, what's that?
2779 2011-05-22 22:14:21 * diki implies he never got it even once
2780 2011-05-22 22:14:33 <lfm> wide graphics adapter?
2781 2011-05-22 22:14:37 <diki> lol
2782 2011-05-22 22:14:45 <diki> we've got one of those
2783 2011-05-22 22:14:50 <diki> it's called PCI-Express
2784 2011-05-22 22:15:21 <lfm> 1500x1080?
2785 2011-05-22 22:15:24 <erbs> pee ceeeee
2786 2011-05-22 22:15:30 <chmod755> windows genuine advantage *lol
2787 2011-05-22 22:15:41 * diki implies he never got it even once
2788 2011-05-22 22:15:49 <Netsniper> windows comparitive advantage
2789 2011-05-22 22:15:52 <diki> I use RTM release of windows 7
2790 2011-05-22 22:16:10 <diki> never been bothered by any serial, wga or whatnot shit
2791 2011-05-22 22:16:14 <erbs> ;;bc,mtgox
2792 2011-05-22 22:16:14 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":6.72,"low":5.99,"vol":24490,"buy":6.66,"sell":6.699,"last":6.69}}
2793 2011-05-22 22:16:16 <chmod755> http://www.linuxgenuineadvantage.org/
2794 2011-05-22 22:16:17 plutonic has joined
2795 2011-05-22 22:16:35 theboos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2796 2011-05-22 22:16:38 <erbs> coino demayo
2797 2011-05-22 22:17:14 <diki> coino deketchupo
2798 2011-05-22 22:17:14 <lfm> diki wga is hidden now, it calls microsoft.com every time you start up or connect
2799 2011-05-22 22:17:24 hgfd has joined
2800 2011-05-22 22:17:48 <diki> yet here i am
2801 2011-05-22 22:17:58 <diki> with an year and a half installation of Windows 7
2802 2011-05-22 22:18:20 <hgfd> I really don't understand this bitcoin thing.
2803 2011-05-22 22:18:33 <lfm> hgfd thats ok, no one does
2804 2011-05-22 22:18:37 Sedra has joined
2805 2011-05-22 22:18:44 theboos has joined
2806 2011-05-22 22:19:12 <hgfd> Like, with the "mining". What are you "mining" exactly? Lol.
2807 2011-05-22 22:19:29 <lfm> hgfd looking for special bit patterns
2808 2011-05-22 22:20:32 <chmod755> hgfd: I'm currently mining this: {"result":{"midstate":"65d9bc70538b72d42c8e4fb46949cc627d0f180aa22e91e7c1bccdbfbe2c74d1","data":"000000016f5e350d9c5433f7b25e888a7ffc5c04ea657277cc5b46840000385f000000008554b1e208439a3ac5af001b92177760fbf6fd292f9c5730958a2bbfe462833d4dd98ab01a44b9f200000000000000800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000","hash1":"000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
2809 2011-05-22 22:20:52 <lfm> hgfd you undrestand how sha256 cryptographicly secure hashing works?
2810 2011-05-22 22:21:05 <kika_> Diablo-D3: i have a 6990, how would be the command line to enable both GPU's for DiabloMiner-Windows.exe ? i see a flag thats --devices but i dont know how to exactly fill it for both GPUs, can you help?¿
2811 2011-05-22 22:21:07 <hgfd> No, sorry. I'm not familiar with cryptography.
2812 2011-05-22 22:21:09 <phantomcircuit> lfm, lol really? they dont need to know that at all
2813 2011-05-22 22:21:22 <diki> --devies is automagically selected
2814 2011-05-22 22:21:23 ninjaneo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2815 2011-05-22 22:21:27 <diki> *devices
2816 2011-05-22 22:21:34 <lfm> hgfd well thats where you might want to start, hashing is key to mining
2817 2011-05-22 22:21:36 <phantomcircuit> hgfd, bitcoin is basically a p2p notary system, you want to send btc from one person to another and you tell everybody, so that nobody can double spend
2818 2011-05-22 22:21:52 <kika_> diki: i want both GPUs 6990 to be used for mining on diablominer
2819 2011-05-22 22:21:53 <diki> after i found a block the pool stored the solution to mysql
2820 2011-05-22 22:21:54 lulzplzk1hx is now known as lulzplzkthx
2821 2011-05-22 22:22:06 <phantomcircuit> hgfd, to make the transaction history permanent you have miners generate blocks which contain all the transactions
2822 2011-05-22 22:22:11 <hgfd> That's a bit confusing to people who first come into this scene.
2823 2011-05-22 22:22:12 <diki> but after searching on blockexplorer for the hash
2824 2011-05-22 22:22:13 <hgfd> Eg. Me.
2825 2011-05-22 22:22:15 <phantomcircuit> hgfd, generating a block is hard and takes time
2826 2011-05-22 22:22:17 <diki> it wasnt there...
2827 2011-05-22 22:22:18 <lfm> phantomcircuit: well I guess it depends what you mean by "understand"
2828 2011-05-22 22:22:21 Sedra- has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2829 2011-05-22 22:22:34 <phantomcircuit> lfm, any understanding at all is completely unnecessary
2830 2011-05-22 22:22:35 <hgfd> Well, just mainly what's the point in all of this?
2831 2011-05-22 22:22:53 <BitterTea> hgfd: Think of it this way... You don't need to know how financial instruments or the federal reserve works in order to receive U.S. dollars as payment for your work, or to pay for things with the same
2832 2011-05-22 22:22:56 <phantomcircuit> hgfd, currency which cannot be devalued by an arbitrarily chosen banker?
2833 2011-05-22 22:23:08 <lfm> phantomcircuit: but that is what he asked, to understand. not how to run the programs blindly
2834 2011-05-22 22:23:22 <phantomcircuit> lfm, i doubt he wanted a lesson in crypto
2835 2011-05-22 22:23:22 <hgfd> So this is kind of like PayPal without a middle man?
2836 2011-05-22 22:23:34 <lfm> sorta ya
2837 2011-05-22 22:23:41 <BitterTea> hgfd: It is its own currency, whereas paypal is a money transmitter of various currencies
2838 2011-05-22 22:23:44 <erbs> tasty shorgalarg
2839 2011-05-22 22:23:46 <hgfd> Ah.
2840 2011-05-22 22:23:49 <BitterTea> It just so happens to be easy to transmit digitally
2841 2011-05-22 22:24:34 <phantomcircuit> hgfd, good enough description for you?
2842 2011-05-22 22:24:52 <hgfd> A bit. That gets part of the story for me.
2843 2011-05-22 22:25:13 <erbs> ME LIKE DIGITAL CURRENCY. BITS GOOD. CENTRAL BANK BAD
2844 2011-05-22 22:25:14 <phantomcircuit> hgfd, if you want to know more just ask
2845 2011-05-22 22:25:23 <phantomcircuit> erbs, silence theif
2846 2011-05-22 22:25:32 <hgfd> I'm still confused on why everyone is "mining" a hash code. I don't want to get annoying, I'm just quite curious on what this is exactly.
2847 2011-05-22 22:25:55 <lfm> hgfd and we can help you understand cryptographicly secure hashing too if you got the time
2848 2011-05-22 22:25:59 <BitterTea> hgfd: It's a way to stop counterfeiting without a central issuing authority (like the federal reserve)
2849 2011-05-22 22:26:14 <phantomcircuit> hgfd, i can explain it without you needing to understand any of the crypto
2850 2011-05-22 22:26:16 <BitterTea> It's just some cryptographic magic :)
2851 2011-05-22 22:26:19 <erbs> http://code.google.com/p/phantom/ cool project
2852 2011-05-22 22:26:22 <phantomcircuit> hgfd, send me a pm and i can explain it
2853 2011-05-22 22:26:33 <hgfd> Alright, thank you phantom. :)
2854 2011-05-22 22:26:55 <phantomcircuit> erbs, did you just google phantom and assume everything that turns up is me?
2855 2011-05-22 22:27:31 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: I'd be interesting in seeing your explanation. I think you should post it on the forums
2856 2011-05-22 22:27:35 <BitterTea> or could you at least CC me? :)
2857 2011-05-22 22:27:41 <BitterTea> *interested
2858 2011-05-22 22:27:45 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, ill write up a wiiki of it
2859 2011-05-22 22:28:07 <erbs> phantomcircuit: are you involved with phantom?
2860 2011-05-22 22:29:13 <erbs> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAW/MF
2861 2011-05-22 22:29:19 AStove has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2862 2011-05-22 22:30:03 AStove has joined
2863 2011-05-22 22:30:12 <erbs> phantom looks like an awesome project
2864 2011-05-22 22:30:20 <diki> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9242.0
2865 2011-05-22 22:30:22 LA9KSA has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2866 2011-05-22 22:30:24 <erbs> has some similarities with tor / freenet
2867 2011-05-22 22:30:26 <diki> I wont read that...
2868 2011-05-22 22:31:28 <lfm> also the crypto is the most interesting part of bitcoin, the rest is mundane
2869 2011-05-22 22:31:44 <jargon> My stereo is so God-Fucking loud, it raised my monthly electric bill by over 100$ (1.45Kw)
2870 2011-05-22 22:32:01 <jargon> sorry for the curse, but that is the only representation that fits.
2871 2011-05-22 22:32:12 <phantomcircuit> lfm, the crypto is actually pretty boring lol
2872 2011-05-22 22:32:34 <jrmithdobbs> ya
2873 2011-05-22 22:32:54 <jrmithdobbs> it's used in an interesting way but the crypto itself isn't particularly interesting
2874 2011-05-22 22:33:21 <vegard> and just to be clear, the "crypto" in bitcoin is not all about hashing.
2875 2011-05-22 22:33:28 <lfm> it is essential to the result. no other way is known
2876 2011-05-22 22:34:13 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
2877 2011-05-22 22:34:19 <diki> what is tl;dr?
2878 2011-05-22 22:34:39 <lfm> vegard: ya there is the eliptical curve signing too, but I find the mining to be the most interesting part
2879 2011-05-22 22:35:19 <jrmithdobbs> diki: i got as far as 'illegal money xfer' and stopped reading, that is a retarded post
2880 2011-05-22 22:35:41 <jrmithdobbs> mtgox goes out of it's way to enforce us-regulation-compliant withdrawl of funds
2881 2011-05-22 22:35:44 <jrmithdobbs> haha
2882 2011-05-22 22:36:29 sanchom has left ()
2883 2011-05-22 22:36:30 kika_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2884 2011-05-22 22:36:35 <erbs> heh mtgox is not a licensed securities dealer
2885 2011-05-22 22:37:01 Incitatus has joined
2886 2011-05-22 22:37:15 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: bitcoin is classified as stored value
2887 2011-05-22 22:37:28 <erbs> no its not
2888 2011-05-22 22:37:35 <jrmithdobbs> yes it is
2889 2011-05-22 22:37:37 <erbs> stored value is demoninated in a particular currency
2890 2011-05-22 22:37:41 <erbs> no
2891 2011-05-22 22:37:57 LA9KSA has joined
2892 2011-05-22 22:38:10 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: it's what mybitcoin was told when they queried.
2893 2011-05-22 22:38:41 <erbs> queried who/what ? is mybitcoin in adherence to know your customer regs?
2894 2011-05-22 22:38:50 <jrmithdobbs> err bitcoinusa ... wrong company
2895 2011-05-22 22:38:58 <jrmithdobbs> and yes bitcoinusa is in compliance
2896 2011-05-22 22:39:04 <ArtForzZz> was
2897 2011-05-22 22:39:32 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: and dot is the one who said stored value
2898 2011-05-22 22:39:51 <ArtForzZz> iirc customers pretty much said "fuck this" and went with exchangers requiring less paperwork
2899 2011-05-22 22:39:52 <erbs> the exchange services are all illegal unless theyre complying with all that mumbo jumbo. now they have a good argument as to why they should be phased into compliance rather than prosecuted (think of how VoIP companies were gradually brought into compliance with existing telecom rules)
2900 2011-05-22 22:40:10 <ArtForzZz> erbs: illegal under what countrys law?
2901 2011-05-22 22:40:14 <erbs> US
2902 2011-05-22 22:40:16 <erbs> EU
2903 2011-05-22 22:40:18 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: mtgox is based in japan not us so no, not illegal
2904 2011-05-22 22:40:25 <ArtForzZz> not all of the world is under US jurisdiction.
2905 2011-05-22 22:40:46 <erbs> they are providing service to customers in the US, so its under US jurisdiction
2906 2011-05-22 22:40:51 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, they're doing business with us citizens, which is enough for the us to try and get you extradited
2907 2011-05-22 22:40:52 <jgarzik> ArtForzZz: that, and business partners bailed when bitcoin "plunged" to 0.70
2908 2011-05-22 22:40:54 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: lol no
2909 2011-05-22 22:40:57 <erbs> yes
2910 2011-05-22 22:41:03 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, better hope japan feels like fighting for you
2911 2011-05-22 22:41:07 hgfd has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2912 2011-05-22 22:41:14 <erbs> jrmithdobbs: by that logic any US person can gamble online at an irish poker site
2913 2011-05-22 22:41:19 <erbs> gambling is still illegal
2914 2011-05-22 22:41:26 <jgarzik> ArtForzZz: so BitcoinUSA failure is not really a story of KYC paperwork
2915 2011-05-22 22:41:39 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: trading in stored value items isn't illegal in any way, though?
2916 2011-05-22 22:41:42 devrandom_ has joined
2917 2011-05-22 22:42:10 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: and mtgox enforces $1kusd/day withdrawl as required for stored value
2918 2011-05-22 22:42:16 <BitterTea> erbs: Are you saying that the Irish poker site is in violation of US law, or just the US citizen?
2919 2011-05-22 22:42:21 <jrmithdobbs> so where's the illegal part?
2920 2011-05-22 22:42:23 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, whether bitcoin is legally stored value or currency is a matter of contention that is so far unresolved afaict
2921 2011-05-22 22:42:26 <ArtForzZz> the US citizen is, duh.
2922 2011-05-22 22:42:31 <jrmithdobbs> is DoT wants to say it's not stored value, that's another thing
2923 2011-05-22 22:42:35 <jrmithdobbs> s/is/if/
2924 2011-05-22 22:42:36 <BitterTea> ArtForzZz: I know that
2925 2011-05-22 22:42:44 <jrmithdobbs> but for now they have said btc is stored value
2926 2011-05-22 22:42:50 <ArtForzZz> unless the irish suddenly made it illegal to serve USians ;)
2927 2011-05-22 22:42:57 <jargon> Gambling isn't illegal in the US on a reservation or in Nevada.
2928 2011-05-22 22:43:01 <erbs> its not a store of value. its a currency commodity regulated by the CFTC & SEC. and for some services its a depository account regulated by the OTS/Treasury
2929 2011-05-22 22:43:02 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, yes but they're famously bipolar about stuff
2930 2011-05-22 22:43:10 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: hence, 'for now'
2931 2011-05-22 22:43:13 <BitterTea> Bitcoin is regulated? News to me!
2932 2011-05-22 22:43:29 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: dot disagrees
2933 2011-05-22 22:43:32 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: take it up with them
2934 2011-05-22 22:43:40 <lfm> erbs huh?
2935 2011-05-22 22:43:42 <erbs> dot?
2936 2011-05-22 22:43:46 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, department of transportation?
2937 2011-05-22 22:43:47 <jrmithdobbs> department of treasury
2938 2011-05-22 22:43:47 <ArtForzZz> erbs: got any official opinion backing that?
2939 2011-05-22 22:43:54 ZenMondo has left ()
2940 2011-05-22 22:43:55 <erbs> ArtForzZz
2941 2011-05-22 22:44:01 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, usually people just call them the treasury
2942 2011-05-22 22:44:07 <ArtForzZz> erbs
2943 2011-05-22 22:44:17 <phantomcircuit> DoT means department of transportation
2944 2011-05-22 22:44:29 <lfm> so we arnt trading bits?
2945 2011-05-22 22:44:33 <ArtForzZz> while DotT is the Day of the Tentacle
2946 2011-05-22 22:44:36 ninjaneo has joined
2947 2011-05-22 22:45:06 <erbs> bitcoin is not stored value obviously because its not denominated in USD or any currency. its not storing anything. its a commodity
2948 2011-05-22 22:45:10 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: and my choice of tla changes my comments how?
2949 2011-05-22 22:45:13 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2950 2011-05-22 22:45:14 <erbs> youre confusing various regs they have to comply with
2951 2011-05-22 22:45:20 <lfm> the Demon of Thunderdome!
2952 2011-05-22 22:45:47 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: they said it was stored value. until it says otherwise that is how everyone is treating them for tax/compliance purposes
2953 2011-05-22 22:46:32 <jrmithdobbs> and the major exchanges who exchange to usd are in compliance with stored value reqs
2954 2011-05-22 22:46:39 <erbs> ArtForzZz: there are no authoritiative opinions on bitcoin. i don't think its really an issue practically, since theres enough gray area to followed a phased-in path to "compliance". that's assuming the ecosystem isn't dominated by launderers/drug dealers and then the govt will take the harshet interpretation possible
2955 2011-05-22 22:46:48 <erbs> jrmithdobbs: [citation needed]
2956 2011-05-22 22:47:01 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, it doesn't im just saying that in general people refer to the treasury as simply "the treasury"
2957 2011-05-22 22:47:01 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: google bitcoinusa stored value treasury
2958 2011-05-22 22:47:58 <erbs> jrmithdobbs: nothing comes up except a reference to a 2005 ruling
2959 2011-05-22 22:48:21 spore has joined
2960 2011-05-22 22:48:46 spore is now known as Guest97357
2961 2011-05-22 22:48:58 <BitterTea> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=5627.msg108978#msg108978
2962 2011-05-22 22:49:11 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: sorry you can't read i guess? a forum thread that goes over it is the first link in the secondary results of the first result returned
2963 2011-05-22 22:49:18 <erbs> a voicemail message? that's not an opinion
2964 2011-05-22 22:49:21 <erbs> lol
2965 2011-05-22 22:49:34 <BitterTea> What?
2966 2011-05-22 22:49:35 <erbs> you must be joking
2967 2011-05-22 22:49:49 <BitterTea> Are you questioning its authenticity, or its applicability?
2968 2011-05-22 22:50:29 <erbs> it has no relevance. it's not an opinion and its obvious the guy didn't know how bitcoin works
2969 2011-05-22 22:51:06 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2970 2011-05-22 22:51:06 <BitterTea> In what way is that relevant?
2971 2011-05-22 22:51:17 <erbs> "we have issued some guidelines in the past in 2008 R005 about service providers to stored valued programs" its not a stored value program like most digital currency out there (flooz and whatnot)
2972 2011-05-22 22:51:21 davex__ has joined
2973 2011-05-22 22:51:26 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: you're welcome to inquire yourself and get an official ruling.
2974 2011-05-22 22:51:29 <BitterTea> I mean, the functioning of bitcoin, how is that relevant to the federal government's determination of it's classification
2975 2011-05-22 22:51:36 <erbs> jrmithdobbs: why? im not a service provider
2976 2011-05-22 22:51:41 <ArtForzZz> so basically "I, mr armchair expert disagree"
2977 2011-05-22 22:51:54 <BitterTea> Ok, then STFU?
2978 2011-05-22 22:51:59 <erbs> this isn't an opinion by the treasury
2979 2011-05-22 22:52:11 <erbs> this is a voicemail that has no applicability to bitcoin whatsoever
2980 2011-05-22 22:52:22 <BitterTea> The people who care what the treasury thinks will use services that strive to abide by their rules
2981 2011-05-22 22:52:23 <ArtForzZz> says... who?
2982 2011-05-22 22:52:42 Guest97357 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2983 2011-05-22 22:52:43 trekdanne has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2984 2011-05-22 22:52:43 <ArtForzZz> sorry, "random guy at FINCEN" beats "random guy on the internet"
2985 2011-05-22 22:52:48 <BitterTea> Can you point me to some document that says the treasury has jurisdiction in this matter?
2986 2011-05-22 22:53:28 <erbs> ArtForzZz: the fincen response isn't about bitcoin. it's about digital currency. bitcoin doesn't meet the definition of stored value. you may as well quote a response about PayPal and claim it has relevance to bitcoin. lol
2987 2011-05-22 22:53:31 <BitterTea> Can you prove that bitcoin is a currency commodity as you say?
2988 2011-05-22 22:53:46 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: that's for them to clarify if they feel that way
2989 2011-05-22 22:53:48 trekdanne has joined
2990 2011-05-22 22:53:51 <jrmithdobbs> in the meantime, it's the only answer we have.
2991 2011-05-22 22:53:56 <jrmithdobbs> the end.
2992 2011-05-22 22:54:03 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, https://bitcoinconsultancy.com/wiki/index.php/Explanation
2993 2011-05-22 22:54:04 <erbs> jrmithdobbs: no, this quote doesn't pertain to bitcoin
2994 2011-05-22 22:54:11 <jrmithdobbs> says you
2995 2011-05-22 22:54:15 <BitterTea> erbs: "A commodity currency is a name given to currencies of countries which depend heavily on the export of certain raw materials for income."
2996 2011-05-22 22:54:21 <BitterTea> is that the definition you're using?
2997 2011-05-22 22:54:29 <BlueMatt> sipa: your pgp sig is obnoxiously long
2998 2011-05-22 22:54:42 <erbs> BitterTea: thats not a regulatory definition. random googling isn't going to help you
2999 2011-05-22 22:54:54 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, treasury does have jurisdiction, so long as bitcoin isn't ruled to be counterfeit dollars, but i cant imagine anybody making that argument
3000 2011-05-22 22:55:18 <BlueMatt> devrandom: you have gribble msgs waiting
3001 2011-05-22 22:55:20 <erbs> quoting the treasury on a 2005 ruling has little relevance to bitcoin
3002 2011-05-22 22:55:21 <BitterTea> erbs: So show me the official definition then?
3003 2011-05-22 22:55:21 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, ill throw some pretty diagrams on it later
3004 2011-05-22 22:55:47 <erbs> where is the text of the question teh voicemail answers? you need guidance letter to assert anything about "Tresaury"
3005 2011-05-22 22:56:02 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: ya the only thing the treasury has authority on is the final exchange to usd
3006 2011-05-22 22:56:21 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, yeah
3007 2011-05-22 22:56:26 <ArtForzZz> which exchanges are kinda faced with
3008 2011-05-22 22:56:30 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: I'm aware of what bitcoin is/how it works (generally) :)
3009 2011-05-22 22:56:32 <erbs> read the ruling in question. its about stored value cards which contain a certain $ value. bitcoin doesn't contain USD value
3010 2011-05-22 22:56:39 <jrmithdobbs> which, for the moment, someone has received guidance from a guy at fincen that said it's stored value
3011 2011-05-22 22:56:47 <erbs> lol no one has received any guidance
3012 2011-05-22 22:56:49 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, it was you that asked me what my explanation would be right?
3013 2011-05-22 22:57:22 <BitterTea> Oh, gotcha :)
3014 2011-05-22 22:57:32 <BitterTea> Short term memory loss
3015 2011-05-22 22:57:36 <phantomcircuit> lol
3016 2011-05-22 22:57:43 <Diablo-D3> [06:14:34] <kika_> Diablo-D3: i have a 6990, how would be the command line to enable both GPU's for DiabloMiner-Windows.exe ? i see a flag thats --devices but i dont know how to exactly fill it for both GPUs, can you help?¿
3017 2011-05-22 22:57:50 <Diablo-D3> oh he helft
3018 2011-05-22 22:57:56 <BitterTea> I thought this was in response to erbs's bs
3019 2011-05-22 22:58:08 <ArtForzZz> well, whatever, I don't give a rats ass about US regs anyway
3020 2011-05-22 22:59:17 <phantomcircuit> ArtForzZz, you should us regulations end up being incorporated into bank rules world wide
3021 2011-05-22 22:59:30 <phantomcircuit> deuche bank has a ton of internal rules world wide based on us law
3022 2011-05-22 22:59:45 <BitterTea> I think those regulations will be difficult to enforce against users of Bitcoin
3023 2011-05-22 22:59:48 <BitterTea> guess we'll see though
3024 2011-05-22 22:59:58 <phantomcircuit> sure but easily enforced against exchanged
3025 2011-05-22 23:00:02 <phantomcircuit> exchanges*
3026 2011-05-22 23:00:14 <BitterTea> Current centralized, non-anonymous exchanges, yes
3027 2011-05-22 23:00:23 stuhood has joined
3028 2011-05-22 23:00:28 <BitterTea> Possible future decentralized or anonymous exchanges, not so much
3029 2011-05-22 23:00:36 <phantomcircuit> lol how do you do that online?
3030 2011-05-22 23:00:49 <erbs> obviously regs on stored value don't pertain to btc (they don't store any USD amount like a starbucks gift card would). a better legal angle is to call it a virtual digital good like an mp3.
3031 2011-05-22 23:00:57 <BitterTea> How do you have a decentralized pseudonymous virtual money?
3032 2011-05-22 23:01:16 <ninjaneo> ld: cannot find -lboost_system, any ideas why? i have boost.... /usr/lib/libboost_system.so -> libboost_system-1_42.so
3033 2011-05-22 23:01:32 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, how do you have decentralized pseudonymous dollars
3034 2011-05-22 23:02:15 <BitterTea> Well, #bitcoin-otc is a simple example
3035 2011-05-22 23:03:02 <BitterTea> If each user had a way to track how much USD all other users had committed to the "exchange", they could shuffle numbers around and cash out only when necessary
3036 2011-05-22 23:03:26 <phantomcircuit> something tells me that if the us gov started shutting down exchanges with huge fines and stuff that the traffic in -otc would go down a lot
3037 2011-05-22 23:03:35 <phantomcircuit> although you could exchange in person
3038 2011-05-22 23:03:37 <BitterTea> MoneyPaks can be purchased with cash, and all you need to redeem is the code under the scratch-off
3039 2011-05-22 23:03:44 mcqueenorama has joined
3040 2011-05-22 23:03:55 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, sure but that's centralized
3041 2011-05-22 23:04:31 <BitterTea> Well, the exchange of them isn't necessarily
3042 2011-05-22 23:04:40 <BitterTea> I mean, in that sense federal reserve notes are centralized
3043 2011-05-22 23:04:56 <BitterTea> But we should probably move this to OTC or Discussion, not Dev
3044 2011-05-22 23:05:03 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3045 2011-05-22 23:05:10 neoeinstein__ has joined
3046 2011-05-22 23:05:19 <erbs> just sell pngs or mp3s with a bitcoin address embedded in the metadata
3047 2011-05-22 23:05:20 <BitterTea> nvm, I have to go anyway
3048 2011-05-22 23:05:33 <phantomcircuit> erbs, lol
3049 2011-05-22 23:05:35 BitterTea has quit (Quit: leaving)
3050 2011-05-22 23:05:52 <ninjaneo> i even did ldconfig -p | grep boost_system to double check that the linker knew it was there
3051 2011-05-22 23:05:56 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3052 2011-05-22 23:06:18 <phantomcircuit> ninjaneo, you need the static boost library .la
3053 2011-05-22 23:06:23 <ninjaneo> ahhhhh
3054 2011-05-22 23:06:24 <phantomcircuit> ninjaneo, why? i have no fucking idea
3055 2011-05-22 23:06:28 <ninjaneo> lol
3056 2011-05-22 23:06:36 <ninjaneo> YAY I GET TO RECOMPILE BOOST
3057 2011-05-22 23:06:50 <phantomcircuit> gentoo?
3058 2011-05-22 23:06:54 <ninjaneo> ;p
3059 2011-05-22 23:06:59 <phantomcircuit> yeah same
3060 2011-05-22 23:07:09 <phantomcircuit> there's a bitcoin overlay
3061 2011-05-22 23:07:21 <lfm> you can link boost either static or dynamic, either works. just they link it static in the distro binaries so you dont need to find the dyn libs
3062 2011-05-22 23:07:52 <ninjaneo> ohrly
3063 2011-05-22 23:07:54 <sipa> BlueMatt: went to a keysigning party with>100 people once
3064 2011-05-22 23:08:02 kermit has joined
3065 2011-05-22 23:08:12 BitMark has quit (Quit: BitMark)
3066 2011-05-22 23:08:12 <ninjaneo> I was building from repo because I wanted the monitortx
3067 2011-05-22 23:08:18 <phantomcircuit> lfm, uh actually it doesn't, try and build with the dynamic libs
3068 2011-05-22 23:08:21 <phantomcircuit> i dare you
3069 2011-05-22 23:08:39 <lfm> phantomcircuit: I have, no problem
3070 2011-05-22 23:08:44 <phantomcircuit> hint it builds but crashes
3071 2011-05-22 23:08:47 sirk390 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3072 2011-05-22 23:08:55 <lfm> doesnt crash for me
3073 2011-05-22 23:09:03 <ninjaneo> i tried specifying the exact location with the -L param
3074 2011-05-22 23:09:05 <phantomcircuit> crashes 100% of the time for me
3075 2011-05-22 23:09:26 <lfm> phantomcircuit: I duuno why then
3076 2011-05-22 23:09:32 <erbs> here is the treasury definition of stored value btw: Stored value: Funds or monetary value represented in digital electronics format (whether or not specially encrypted) and stored or capable of storage on electronic media in such a way as to be retrievable and transferable electronically.
3077 2011-05-22 23:09:47 <ninjaneo> the make would error out, ld: cannot find -lboost_system
3078 2011-05-22 23:10:13 <erbs> so, stored value regs do apply of course to any service provider delivering bitcoins, but that doesn't mean that commodities and money transmittal regs do not also apply, which they do
3079 2011-05-22 23:10:14 <lfm> ninjaneo: ya, youd have to change the make for dyn libs
3080 2011-05-22 23:10:36 <ninjaneo> hrm i only kind of understand the linking process
3081 2011-05-22 23:11:59 <erbs> so yes the bitcoinUSA quote is totally correct and applicable..
3082 2011-05-22 23:12:24 <mcqueenorama> ninjaneo i had to recompile boost static and put it in my homedir/lib to get it working
3083 2011-05-22 23:12:26 <erbs> it doesn't free you from abiding by KYC, getting a money transmission license in each state, becoming a commodities dealer etc
3084 2011-05-22 23:12:43 bk128 has joined
3085 2011-05-22 23:13:08 <erbs> (bitcoin is a commodify and starbucks gift cards are not because bitcoin's value is determined primarily by demand for a good wherease a gift card's value is the $USD amount stored in it)
3086 2011-05-22 23:13:26 <lfm> erba huh? you need to become a commodities dealer to play with btc?
3087 2011-05-22 23:13:36 <ArtForzZz> yay for armchair lawyer opinions
3088 2011-05-22 23:13:44 <erbs> to sell btc yes
3089 2011-05-22 23:13:55 <lfm> lol
3090 2011-05-22 23:14:00 <erbs> ArtForzZz: no real lawyers have given an opinion
3091 2011-05-22 23:14:19 <phantomcircuit> ArtForzZz, lol
3092 2011-05-22 23:14:22 <ArtForzZz> and you know that. great.
3093 2011-05-22 23:14:26 <lfm> let alone pretend lawyers
3094 2011-05-22 23:14:51 * ninjaneo pretends to be a lawyer
3095 2011-05-22 23:14:52 <phantomcircuit> erbs, you realize that every gift card on the planet specifically says that it has only 0.01 USD in value right?
3096 2011-05-22 23:15:16 <erbs> ArtForzZz: if you know of a legal opinion, then by all means tell us
3097 2011-05-22 23:15:47 <erbs> phantomcircuit: the card is only redeemable for $0.01 - that doesn't mean its not regulated as a stored value card
3098 2011-05-22 23:15:53 <lfm> sounds good, so my 200 btc here only have $0.01 USD in value, no matter what some people wish to pay for them
3099 2011-05-22 23:15:59 Nes-asleep is now known as Nesetalis
3100 2011-05-22 23:16:02 <ninjaneo> lfm can you give me a clue on how to build against shared libraries boost takes like 9 hours for me to compile
3101 2011-05-22 23:16:18 <ninjaneo> or phantomcircuit can you quickpkg it for me =o
3102 2011-05-22 23:16:24 <Namegduf> I prefer to think of it as a stored coffee value.
3103 2011-05-22 23:16:27 AStove has quit ()
3104 2011-05-22 23:16:45 <phantomcircuit> lfm, basically that's how gift cards work, when you buy a $50 gift card they only give you $49.99 (actually they make it so the 0.01 is hidden in sales tax)
3105 2011-05-22 23:16:45 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3106 2011-05-22 23:16:55 <phantomcircuit> ninjaneo, lol i only have dynamic libs
3107 2011-05-22 23:17:02 <ninjaneo> drat
3108 2011-05-22 23:17:03 <lfm> ninjaneo: theres a def in the makefile with a list of libboostxxx thingies and the first line says something STATIC. take out the line that says STATIC
3109 2011-05-22 23:17:05 <phantomcircuit> ninjaneo, amd64?
3110 2011-05-22 23:17:09 <ninjaneo> x86 =(
3111 2011-05-22 23:17:10 <ninjaneo> lol
3112 2011-05-22 23:17:15 <phantomcircuit> yeah not a chance
3113 2011-05-22 23:17:22 <mcqueenorama> i bet it would be useful to make an amazon image that's bitcoin dev ready
3114 2011-05-22 23:17:26 <ninjaneo> oh ok ill take a look
3115 2011-05-22 23:17:58 <ninjaneo> omg that worked =p
3116 2011-05-22 23:18:16 <ninjaneo> yay!
3117 2011-05-22 23:18:17 <lfm> see, linking isnt so hard
3118 2011-05-22 23:18:24 <phantomcircuit> ninjaneo, yeah now try and run it...
3119 2011-05-22 23:18:30 <ninjaneo> it ran too =o
3120 2011-05-22 23:18:39 <phantomcircuit> hmm
3121 2011-05-22 23:18:41 <ninjaneo> at least bitcoind did, i didn't compile the wxwidgets
3122 2011-05-22 23:19:28 <phantomcircuit> weird maybe somethign was fixed
3123 2011-05-22 23:19:43 trekdanne has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3124 2011-05-22 23:19:50 <lfm> -0.3.21?
3125 2011-05-22 23:20:03 <tasha2> code code code
3126 2011-05-22 23:20:09 <tasha2> ignore channel...
3127 2011-05-22 23:20:18 <lfm> tasha2: bye
3128 2011-05-22 23:20:20 <erbs> 15 U.S.C. 78l(a). Section 12(a) of the Exchange Act prohibits any broker or dealer from engaging in any transaction in a security on a national exchange, unless the security is registered under the Exchange Act. [SEC]
3129 2011-05-22 23:20:31 <erbs> you need to register the security with the SEC
3130 2011-05-22 23:20:40 <phantomcircuit> it's not a security
3131 2011-05-22 23:20:42 <tasha2> no goodbyes... just code breaks!
3132 2011-05-22 23:20:43 <phantomcircuit> fool
3133 2011-05-22 23:20:54 <lfm> erbs: only if you want to use that exchange
3134 2011-05-22 23:20:55 <erbs> it is, obviously
3135 2011-05-22 23:20:57 <phantomcircuit> a bitcoin is a bitcoin not a security of a bitcoin
3136 2011-05-22 23:21:06 <erbs> phantomcircuit: that makes no sense
3137 2011-05-22 23:21:18 <phantomcircuit> erbs, define:security
3138 2011-05-22 23:21:22 <erbs> phantomcircuit: do you know what a security is?
3139 2011-05-22 23:21:38 <lfm> like a share certificate?
3140 2011-05-22 23:21:48 <Namegduf> "A certificate attesting credit, the ownership of stocks or bonds, or the right to ownership connected with tradable derivatives"
3141 2011-05-22 23:22:06 PsuperPsecret has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3142 2011-05-22 23:22:08 <phantomcircuit> lfm, ps each gcc instance building bitcoin uses like 500 MB of ram
3143 2011-05-22 23:22:09 <phantomcircuit> lulz
3144 2011-05-22 23:22:16 <Namegduf> I think it's reasonable to argue that buying BTC doesn't qualify
3145 2011-05-22 23:22:25 <lfm> phantomcircuit: ya gcc is a pig
3146 2011-05-22 23:22:33 <Namegduf> I doubt going down to the Post Office and exchanging my money to USD requires the Post Office be regulated as an exchange
3147 2011-05-22 23:22:35 <phantomcircuit> lfm, it's not gcc's fault
3148 2011-05-22 23:22:40 <phantomcircuit> lfm, it's headers.h
3149 2011-05-22 23:22:53 <lfm> phantomcircuit: but gcc is a pig too
3150 2011-05-22 23:23:11 <stuhood> is AddAddress fsync'd or something? it causes a ton of IO
3151 2011-05-22 23:23:29 <phantomcircuit> erbs, a security is an abstract contract for something
3152 2011-05-22 23:23:35 <phantomcircuit> erbs, cash is not a security
3153 2011-05-22 23:23:42 <phantomcircuit> erbs, gold is not a security
3154 2011-05-22 23:23:54 <phantomcircuit> you can trade REAL gold without registering with the SEC
3155 2011-05-22 23:24:02 mosi has quit (out!~mos@dongs.dtegaming.com|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3156 2011-05-22 23:24:03 <lfm> Namegduf: ya post office money orders are one of those things, the uspo is prolly registered under several of those regs
3157 2011-05-22 23:24:25 <Namegduf> lfm: A money order, yeah, but I was meaning just a simple exchange of one currency for another
3158 2011-05-22 23:25:01 <phantomcircuit> lfm, uh actually i think they have a special exemption.. but clearly the usps is pretty unique
3159 2011-05-22 23:25:58 <lfm> phantomcircuit: the usps maybe just has a single permit in headqarters for all the offices or something
3160 2011-05-22 23:26:34 AAA_awright has joined
3161 2011-05-22 23:26:43 <lfm> also po money orders are limited to $1000 too arnt they?
3162 2011-05-22 23:27:06 <diki> what are the max characters of a bitcoin address?
3163 2011-05-22 23:27:35 vene93 has joined
3164 2011-05-22 23:28:02 <vene93> ciao a tutti
3165 2011-05-22 23:28:22 <ninjaneo> Mainline addresses can be 25-34 characters in length
3166 2011-05-22 23:28:35 <diki> 34 max for any bitcoin address?
3167 2011-05-22 23:28:39 <diki> wallet address i mean
3168 2011-05-22 23:28:53 <ninjaneo> i c/p from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address
3169 2011-05-22 23:29:00 kika_ has joined
3170 2011-05-22 23:29:18 <vene93> come creo i bitcoins?
3171 2011-05-22 23:29:21 <kika_> why im getting many "Verification failed, check hardware"! on poclbm?
3172 2011-05-22 23:29:44 <diki> so, 34...
3173 2011-05-22 23:30:20 <erbs> phantomcircuit: gold is regulated by the cftc. if you sell a futures contract or option then you need to have a license
3174 2011-05-22 23:30:38 <lfm> kika_: they added new checks, you are not passing them
3175 2011-05-22 23:30:52 <kika_> lfm: why ?
3176 2011-05-22 23:31:06 <lfm> kika_: maybe your hardware is not right
3177 2011-05-22 23:31:12 <kika_> lfm: this was working fine on my win 7 pc with this 6990 card not on win xp its not working
3178 2011-05-22 23:31:30 <kika_> lfm: one core works, the other one works for a few seconds and then gives that message
3179 2011-05-22 23:31:51 <lfm> kika_: ArtForzZz said there may be something wrong with you crossfire settings
3180 2011-05-22 23:32:14 <kika_> lfm: i have only one 6990 card, so im not crossfiring anything?
3181 2011-05-22 23:32:38 <oneman> don't get caught in the crossfire
3182 2011-05-22 23:32:42 <lfm> kika_: make sure the aticonfig crossfire is off then
3183 2011-05-22 23:32:54 <phantomcircuit> lfm, $500, but you can just get as many as you want all in one go
3184 2011-05-22 23:33:13 <kika_> lfm: im on windows no aticonfig
3185 2011-05-22 23:33:20 <kika_> lfm: win xp
3186 2011-05-22 23:33:22 <phantomcircuit> erbs, uh no selling physical gold is regulated only by the department of weights and measures
3187 2011-05-22 23:33:29 <lfm> kika_: oh well do something else then
3188 2011-05-22 23:33:37 <phantomcircuit> erbs, obviously if you sell a gold futures contract that's the sec
3189 2011-05-22 23:33:43 <kika_> this guy has exactly the same problem http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1334.msg55460;topicseen#msg55460
3190 2011-05-22 23:34:14 <kika_> maybe this motherboard isnt setting the voltage correctly
3191 2011-05-22 23:34:22 <kika_> illl check later
3192 2011-05-22 23:34:34 <jargon> Or maybe your motherboard sucks dick for crack.
3193 2011-05-22 23:34:58 <kika_> m4a89gtd asus mobo
3194 2011-05-22 23:35:15 <lfm> jargon where can I get one of those?!
3195 2011-05-22 23:35:16 <kika_> i think i installed some program called gpu optimizer something like that maybe tahts it
3196 2011-05-22 23:35:30 <kika_> gpu boost driver
3197 2011-05-22 23:36:29 <erbs> then you have every state which requires a license to exchange currency and most now require a license to transmit money
3198 2011-05-22 23:37:13 mcqueenorama has left ()
3199 2011-05-22 23:38:19 <erbs> when you buy btc on mtgox does it actually create a new tx or is it all accounted for on the site?
3200 2011-05-22 23:38:23 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3201 2011-05-22 23:38:25 ninjaneo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3202 2011-05-22 23:38:42 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3203 2011-05-22 23:38:57 <phantomcircuit> erbs, it's accounted for on the site, but you can withdraw from mtgox whenever you want
3204 2011-05-22 23:39:35 <erbs> probably if it handles your btc balance internally, thats a currency option (you have the option to receive the goods at any time)
3205 2011-05-22 23:39:49 <sipa> it handles it all internally
3206 2011-05-22 23:40:14 <erbs> if otoh if actually delivers the btc to you when you buy it, its not a futures or option and probably isn't under the cftc
3207 2011-05-22 23:40:54 <phantomcircuit> erbs, the change to sending it right away would be trivial
3208 2011-05-22 23:40:59 <erbs> yeah
3209 2011-05-22 23:41:13 <erbs> i would do that - then you can rightfully claim you're not offering options to buy
3210 2011-05-22 23:41:32 * BlueMatt has a working deb and ppa which downloads bitcoin via gitian meaning you get trusted dev sigs from multiple devs before it will install :)
3211 2011-05-22 23:41:58 <vene93> come conosco il mio hash?
3212 2011-05-22 23:42:12 <phantomcircuit> erbs, yeah
3213 2011-05-22 23:42:37 <phantomcircuit> vene93, english?
3214 2011-05-22 23:42:48 kika_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3215 2011-05-22 23:42:51 <vene93> whats is my hash
3216 2011-05-22 23:42:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: nice!
3217 2011-05-22 23:43:01 <tasha2> hmm.. cheap thrills... clicking on a web page, and watching bitcoin shutdown
3218 2011-05-22 23:43:13 <phantomcircuit> vene93, that question isn't complete?
3219 2011-05-22 23:43:15 <phantomcircuit> vene93, that question isn't complete
3220 2011-05-22 23:43:35 <BlueMatt> sipa: once I get it up to snuff, I hope to make it the "official" one which can be linked to by bitcoin.org for 0.4.0
3221 2011-05-22 23:43:39 <vene93> http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php where are the hash
3222 2011-05-22 23:43:41 <vene93> ?
3223 2011-05-22 23:43:58 <sipa> vene93: it's your own hash rate you need to enter
3224 2011-05-22 23:43:59 <BlueMatt> (if no one minds)
3225 2011-05-22 23:44:09 <sipa> vene93: the speed at which your own system is mining
3226 2011-05-22 23:44:25 <vene93> where do i look?
3227 2011-05-22 23:44:34 <sipa> are you mining?
3228 2011-05-22 23:44:59 <vene93> yes
3229 2011-05-22 23:45:06 <phantomcircuit> with what?
3230 2011-05-22 23:45:28 <vene93> the client original
3231 2011-05-22 23:45:59 <sipa> in that case, 1) you should wait until you have all ,,bc,blocks blocks downloaded from the network, and 2) it's so slow you;ll likely never generate a block at all
3232 2011-05-22 23:46:00 <gribble> 125866
3233 2011-05-22 23:46:00 <phantomcircuit> vene93, the hash rate is in ~/.bitcoin/debug.log, however you should be aware that it's unliekly you'll generate a block ever with a cpu
3234 2011-05-22 23:46:56 <vene93> ty =)
3235 2011-05-22 23:47:07 <sipa> BlueMatt: the .deb actually does the downloading and updating automatically?
3236 2011-05-22 23:47:52 vene93 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3237 2011-05-22 23:48:00 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3238 2011-05-22 23:48:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: yep, though updating would have to be manual (as it should be, ie it should appear in system updates)
3239 2011-05-22 23:48:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: there is no built-in stuff for such crazy verifications afaik
3240 2011-05-22 23:48:43 <sipa> no, but the warning comes automatically?
3241 2011-05-22 23:48:56 <BlueMatt> it would fail to install if there isnt enough trust
3242 2011-05-22 23:49:07 <sipa> how so?
3243 2011-05-22 23:49:20 <sipa> a pre-install script that checks?
3244 2011-05-22 23:49:31 <BlueMatt> post-install
3245 2011-05-22 23:49:35 <BlueMatt> but, yea
3246 2011-05-22 23:49:58 <BlueMatt> install just installs the known sigs and their weight then post-install script downloads, checks and installs
3247 2011-05-22 23:49:59 Teslah has joined
3248 2011-05-22 23:49:59 <sipa> but the .deb contains the binary files itself, or it downloads them?
3249 2011-05-22 23:50:08 <BlueMatt> nope, just downloads
3250 2011-05-22 23:50:17 <BlueMatt> dont know of a better way
3251 2011-05-22 23:50:59 <sipa> i wonder if the debian/ubuntu people like such a thing
3252 2011-05-22 23:51:13 <BlueMatt> no, it would never make it into official repos
3253 2011-05-22 23:51:25 <BlueMatt> but IMHO its better to do it that way for users ie on the bitcoin website
3254 2011-05-22 23:51:31 james has joined
3255 2011-05-22 23:51:33 <BlueMatt> like to the ppa that does the fancy trust
3256 2011-05-22 23:51:56 <BlueMatt> (not like we have to worry about real packaging because of the wx crap)
3257 2011-05-22 23:51:58 james is now known as Guest25792
3258 2011-05-22 23:52:00 <stuhood> i wouldn't rule out debian/ubuntu accepting bitcoin packages
3259 2011-05-22 23:52:12 <BlueMatt> no, they cant they wont package wx
3260 2011-05-22 23:52:16 <BlueMatt> so no bitcoin-gui
3261 2011-05-22 23:52:18 <stuhood> ah
3262 2011-05-22 23:52:23 <BlueMatt> bitcoind OTOH...
3263 2011-05-22 23:52:24 * sipa hopes for qbitcoin
3264 2011-05-22 23:52:29 <BlueMatt> well debian already has bitcoind
3265 2011-05-22 23:52:38 <stuhood> oh, nice.
3266 2011-05-22 23:52:38 <sipa> 0.3.19...
3267 2011-05-22 23:52:46 <BlueMatt> yea
3268 2011-05-22 23:53:50 <luke-jr> jgarzik: pushpoold is extremely flaky under high loads :/
3269 2011-05-22 23:55:48 eianpsego has joined
3270 2011-05-22 23:57:31 <eianpsego> Anyone know which CIA conference Andresen will be attending and whether it is a public event (can I buy tickets)?
3271 2011-05-22 23:57:32 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, the json rpc system is a complete hack, so not surprising
3272 2011-05-22 23:57:44 <BlueMatt> sipa: btw, if you are curious...the deb links to a particular version so you have to update the deb to get a new version, thus not-enough-trust should never be an issue (unless you are under attack) as the debs can just wait until there is enough trust
3273 2011-05-22 23:57:53 <BlueMatt> eianpsego: not public
3274 2011-05-22 23:58:04 <BlueMatt> some contractor thing
3275 2011-05-22 23:58:16 <jlewis> phantomcircuit: check out my patch that makes the json rpc server asynchronous :P
3276 2011-05-22 23:58:42 <eianpsego> BlueMatt: If I wanted to ask about the details, who can I speak to?
3277 2011-05-22 23:58:45 <phantomcircuit> jlewis, eh i doubt that'll help
3278 2011-05-22 23:59:02 <stuhood> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/214
3279 2011-05-22 23:59:02 <sipa> BlueMatt: if the links to particular version, why not include the binaries in them?
3280 2011-05-22 23:59:07 <BlueMatt> eianpsego: the forum thread...gavin is on vacation
3281 2011-05-22 23:59:14 <eianpsego> thanks
3282 2011-05-22 23:59:21 <BlueMatt> sipa: because otherwise you dont get the fancy trust stuff?
3283 2011-05-22 23:59:38 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: doesn't mean software implementing it *has* to be flaky :p
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