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9 2011-05-24 00:09:15 <pwrcycle> anyone familiar with puddinpop's compile process know how to fix this compile error: http://pastebin.com/NSR8Z57L
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11 2011-05-24 00:09:44 <BlueMatt> puddinpop's compile process is a bitch, I recommend using a more modern miner
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13 2011-05-24 00:10:11 <pwrcycle> BlueMatt: i'm trying to compile a pool server, not the miner
14 2011-05-24 00:10:29 <BlueMatt> oh the pool, no puddinpop's pool requires all puddinpop miners iirc
15 2011-05-24 00:10:35 <BlueMatt> so its not really a good option for anything
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18 2011-05-24 00:10:49 <BlueMatt> pushpool is the way to go, it is afaik the only pool
19 2011-05-24 00:10:59 <BlueMatt> server that is pulic
20 2011-05-24 00:11:20 <pwrcycle> k, i'll look
21 2011-05-24 00:12:02 <pwrcycle> is there a forum thread for it? repo?
22 2011-05-24 00:12:35 <BlueMatt> github.com/jgarzik
23 2011-05-24 00:12:37 <BlueMatt> it should b
24 2011-05-24 00:12:38 <BlueMatt> e
25 2011-05-24 00:12:40 <jrmithdobbs> pwrcycle: http://github.com/jgarzik/pushpool
26 2011-05-24 00:12:44 <slush> ;;rate lightcode 2 Traded btc for pp
27 2011-05-24 00:12:44 <gribble> Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
28 2011-05-24 00:13:06 <pwrcycle> thnx
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33 2011-05-24 00:17:05 <pwrcycle> is there any link discussing building it? compile requirements or instructions?
34 2011-05-24 00:18:47 <BlueMatt> nope, pushpool questions are one of the most common kinds ;)
35 2011-05-24 00:18:50 <BlueMatt> but you can ask jgarzik
36 2011-05-24 00:19:05 <BlueMatt> (assuming its not a stupid question, to which he typically doesnt respond)
37 2011-05-24 00:21:03 <pwrcycle> i'll grep the logs for a few min then..
38 2011-05-24 00:22:28 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: the official thread is http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8707.0
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42 2011-05-24 00:26:01 <jrmithdobbs> which rpc call will get bitcoind to spit out minted coins that haven't hit 120 confirmations yet?
43 2011-05-24 00:26:11 <jrmithdobbs> is it listtransactions?
44 2011-05-24 00:26:29 <tcatm> listtransactions in recent versions
45 2011-05-24 00:26:45 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: only very recent versions show immature generation TX's
46 2011-05-24 00:26:56 <jrmithdobbs> i'm running current git so that's fin
47 2011-05-24 00:26:57 <jrmithdobbs> e
48 2011-05-24 00:27:15 Jere_Jones has quit (Quit: Leaving)
49 2011-05-24 00:27:36 <jrmithdobbs> aka 3.22-rc?
50 2011-05-24 00:27:41 <jrmithdobbs> whatever you want to call it
51 2011-05-24 00:28:23 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: 0.3.21 release may have that feature, I forget
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57 2011-05-24 00:33:16 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: i know the gui shows them as early as 3.20, like i said, running 322-rc so i should be good
58 2011-05-24 00:34:35 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: so, if i bump pushpoold's fake difficulty down it should just decrease network traffic right? (I don't care about recording shares and that it will drop the number of shares per miner significantly)
59 2011-05-24 00:34:38 <ezl> anyone here algo-trading btc?
60 2011-05-24 00:34:39 <jrmithdobbs> err up
61 2011-05-24 00:35:53 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: if you increase the fake difficulty, it will decrease the network traffic, correct.
62 2011-05-24 00:36:03 <jgarzik> "increase" == make it harder, more difficult
63 2011-05-24 00:36:24 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: though be warned that it's not trivial to increase, as there are some H==0 shortcuts in the code
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73 2011-05-24 00:52:49 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: any pointers on where exactly i need to be careful?
74 2011-05-24 00:53:24 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: check_hash, callers, callees
75 2011-05-24 00:54:43 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: if i get it sorted in a clean easily changable way i'll shoot you a pull request
76 2011-05-24 00:54:51 <jrmithdobbs> can't imagine i'm the only one that'd want it
77 2011-05-24 00:56:33 <phantomcircuit> lol found an actual bug in the scripting
78 2011-05-24 00:56:37 <phantomcircuit> CastToBool is wrong
79 2011-05-24 00:57:35 <jrmithdobbs> ?
80 2011-05-24 00:57:57 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, go look at ./src/script.cpp
81 2011-05-24 00:58:01 <phantomcircuit> CastToBool is wrong
82 2011-05-24 00:59:28 <spitteler> could anyone help with a .command file to open bitcoin from a thumbdrive on a mac?
83 2011-05-24 01:00:47 <spitteler> open -a ./Bitcoin -server -datadir=./wallet
84 2011-05-24 01:00:47 <spitteler> exit
85 2011-05-24 01:00:56 <spitteler> that is what i have tried so far to no avail
86 2011-05-24 01:01:20 <phantomcircuit> you're trying to get it to autorun?
87 2011-05-24 01:01:33 <phantomcircuit> oh mac, you're the new windows!
88 2011-05-24 01:02:03 <neoeinstein> So phantomcircuit, why is CastToBool wrong?
89 2011-05-24 01:02:08 lumos has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
90 2011-05-24 01:02:51 <phantomcircuit> neoeinstein, one sec patching incoming
91 2011-05-24 01:02:56 <spitteler> well im trying to make a usb wallet.. that is modular, it would have one shared wallet and be able to be opened on Windows or Mac
92 2011-05-24 01:03:55 <spitteler> 1 common wallet.dat and one common db record of the blocks (if that is even possible)
93 2011-05-24 01:04:02 <phantomcircuit> neoeinstein, im pretty sure it's not a security issue.. but still
94 2011-05-24 01:04:09 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it seems ok to me, though an odd format for the input
95 2011-05-24 01:04:15 <phantomcircuit> spitteler, sounds dangerous
96 2011-05-24 01:04:25 ar4s has joined
97 2011-05-24 01:04:33 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, pay attention to the position of the most significant byte
98 2011-05-24 01:04:44 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: it's big endian, right?
99 2011-05-24 01:04:50 <phantomcircuit> yes
100 2011-05-24 01:04:59 <luke-jr> so?
101 2011-05-24 01:05:24 <luke-jr> it's also got -0 at 0x80⦠rather than -1
102 2011-05-24 01:05:33 <phantomcircuit> the most significant bit of the most significant byte is the sign
103 2011-05-24 01:05:40 <luke-jr> actually, wouldn't that normally be MININT?
104 2011-05-24 01:05:50 <phantomcircuit> the way way it's written it's the most significant bit of the LEAST significant byte
105 2011-05-24 01:06:06 <luke-jr> no, because the most significant byte is last
106 2011-05-24 01:07:26 <phantomcircuit> lol wat
107 2011-05-24 01:07:48 <luke-jr> I find the odd signed encoding more interesting
108 2011-05-24 01:07:58 <phantomcircuit> yeah it's sign & magnitude
109 2011-05-24 01:07:59 <luke-jr> btw, don't bother with a patch-- even if you were right, it would be stupid to merge it
110 2011-05-24 01:08:09 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
111 2011-05-24 01:08:45 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, either i've gone retarded or the most significant byte should be stored in the lowest memory address with big endian
112 2011-05-24 01:09:00 <luke-jr> such a change would allow someone to craft a pair of transactions which created a massive block chain fork at some point when ~50% had adopted the fixed version
113 2011-05-24 01:09:09 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: ok, maybe it's little endian then
114 2011-05-24 01:09:28 <luke-jr> to me, "big endian" sounds like "biggest goes last" :P
115 2011-05-24 01:09:31 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, well im 100% certain that it's big endian
116 2011-05-24 01:09:42 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: â¦
117 2011-05-24 01:09:50 <phantomcircuit> it's using the openssl bn library
118 2011-05-24 01:09:52 <luke-jr> the endianness is DEFINED by how it's handled
119 2011-05-24 01:09:54 <sherpacore> skewing a node's time 70 minutes ahead could be an issue
120 2011-05-24 01:10:15 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yeah openssl handles everything as be
121 2011-05-24 01:10:19 <luke-jr> sherpacore: of course, that's why people are told to make sure their clock is right
122 2011-05-24 01:10:30 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: irrelevant, scripts aren't openssl
123 2011-05-24 01:10:37 <phantomcircuit> uh yes they are
124 2011-05-24 01:10:44 <sherpacore> then you can feed the a block with a timstamp 190 minutes ahead, and they will accept it (but everyone else will reject) - so you can use this to doublespend, or to take down a pool
125 2011-05-24 01:10:48 <phantomcircuit> CBigNum is openssl bignum
126 2011-05-24 01:10:56 <sherpacore> luke-jr - actually you can skew the time +70 minutes regardless of the system clock
127 2011-05-24 01:11:01 <luke-jr> I don't care how it's implemented in wxBitcoin
128 2011-05-24 01:11:03 <sherpacore> by sending version requests with false timestamps
129 2011-05-24 01:11:29 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, oh yes i see what you're saying
130 2011-05-24 01:11:41 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, 256 is now officially negative 0
131 2011-05-24 01:11:44 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
132 2011-05-24 01:12:48 <luke-jr> â¦
133 2011-05-24 01:13:00 <luke-jr> 128
134 2011-05-24 01:13:04 <phantomcircuit> hmm
135 2011-05-24 01:13:05 <sherpacore> if (abs64(nMedian) < 70 * 60) nTimeOffset = nMedian; // it takes one timestamp per IP and gets the median... so if you create 1000 tor clients, you can alter any nodes network time... then that node will accept a block +190 minutes ahead of the real network time (2 hour threshold + 70 minute offset)
136 2011-05-24 01:13:13 <luke-jr> or -128
137 2011-05-24 01:13:33 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, 0x00000080
138 2011-05-24 01:13:37 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
139 2011-05-24 01:13:37 <phantomcircuit> that's 256
140 2011-05-24 01:13:47 <sherpacore> didn't someone say ntp would be built into the client? maybe thats better than taking the median of other peers
141 2011-05-24 01:13:50 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: prove it
142 2011-05-24 01:14:09 <luke-jr> sherpacore: ⦠he's talking about the mechanism the built-in "ntp" would use
143 2011-05-24 01:14:11 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, well it's SUPPOSED to be 256
144 2011-05-24 01:14:18 <sherpacore> oh i c luke-jr
145 2011-05-24 01:14:24 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: you mean 00 00 00 80
146 2011-05-24 01:14:32 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yes
147 2011-05-24 01:14:39 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: which is 0x00000080 in one endian, and 0x80000000 in the other
148 2011-05-24 01:14:44 <luke-jr> obviously this is a case of the other
149 2011-05-24 01:14:59 <phantomcircuit> sure except that every other number will be right
150 2011-05-24 01:15:00 <luke-jr> and 0x80 is 128
151 2011-05-24 01:15:15 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, 0x80 is 128 in twos complement
152 2011-05-24 01:15:30 <phantomcircuit> oh wait
153 2011-05-24 01:15:31 <phantomcircuit> lol
154 2011-05-24 01:15:32 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
155 2011-05-24 01:15:35 <phantomcircuit> yes it is
156 2011-05-24 01:15:45 <manveru> that's hex
157 2011-05-24 01:16:00 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: also, nothing in that function implies input is 32-bit
158 2011-05-24 01:16:02 <sherpacore> deepbit could go rogue for instance and a) inject a false time into say mtgox's address b) create a block that sends 100000 coins to mtgox c) convert the coins into USD and cash out d) deepbit will now be working on a fork that every other node rejects, and will have to back out of that chain once the network creates 2 more blocks e) by this time deepbit already hase $700K USD in its
159 2011-05-24 01:16:03 <sherpacore> offshore bank acct
160 2011-05-24 01:16:09 <luke-jr> it could be null-length even
161 2011-05-24 01:16:12 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, nMax something
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163 2011-05-24 01:16:49 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yes the big probably never was noticed because it's correct for anything that's one byte
164 2011-05-24 01:16:50 <luke-jr> sherpacore: except that MtGox takes days to send USD
165 2011-05-24 01:16:50 <sherpacore> (the block in B has a fake timestamp +190 minutes - enough so that all other nodes reject, but within mtgox's hacked time offset)
166 2011-05-24 01:17:01 <gmaxwell> ...
167 2011-05-24 01:17:09 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: I'm going to have to stab you.
168 2011-05-24 01:17:27 aninoni has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
169 2011-05-24 01:17:29 <gmaxwell> a miner _can't_ do things like "create a block that sends 100000 coins to mtgox"
170 2011-05-24 01:17:42 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: unless he has 100000 coins
171 2011-05-24 01:17:50 <gmaxwell> indeed.
172 2011-05-24 01:18:05 <sherpacore> yes he has the coins - but he counts on the tx being backed out once the real chain overtakes it
173 2011-05-24 01:18:26 <phantomcircuit> sherpacore, yes a double spend
174 2011-05-24 01:18:28 <luke-jr> sherpacore: also, MtGox waits for 8 confirmations
175 2011-05-24 01:18:32 <phantomcircuit> sherpacore, it would be obvious as fuck
176 2011-05-24 01:18:34 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: indeed, this is why mtgox waits for tx to be burried before crediting accounts.
177 2011-05-24 01:18:42 <luke-jr> sherpacore: that generally takes over an hour
178 2011-05-24 01:18:52 <luke-jr> sherpacore: by which time, those 70 minues are about expired
179 2011-05-24 01:19:02 <luke-jr> and MtGox can rebroadcast the "wrong time" blocks to the real net
180 2011-05-24 01:19:15 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, anyways the problem here is more that the addition operations are big endian, but the casttobool is little endian
181 2011-05-24 01:19:22 tcoppi has joined
182 2011-05-24 01:19:25 <gmaxwell> s/can/will/
183 2011-05-24 01:19:29 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, so that's something everybody will need to be aware of when working with the scripts
184 2011-05-24 01:19:34 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: and if you fix it, you will create a block chain fork
185 2011-05-24 01:19:48 <sherpacore> the victim can be tied up (the victim could be another pool that you want to attack, or a merchant you want to trick into getting 1 or 2 confirms)
186 2011-05-24 01:19:49 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, well that depends on how long it takes for people to upgrade
187 2011-05-24 01:19:56 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: maybe
188 2011-05-24 01:20:41 <phantomcircuit> and actually it's currently only an issue in ops that nobody uses
189 2011-05-24 01:20:45 <phantomcircuit> so it's totally doable
190 2011-05-24 01:20:45 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: in any case, reversals are a risk from anyone with good luck or lots of hash power. To prevent them you don't perform irreversable actions without waiting for the tx to season.
191 2011-05-24 01:20:45 <neoeinstein> phantomcircuit, openssl does allow for a value of -0
192 2011-05-24 01:20:47 <luke-jr> sherpacore: anyhow, I think you describe a "sybil" attack
193 2011-05-24 01:20:52 pierre`_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
194 2011-05-24 01:20:54 <phantomcircuit> neoeinstein, yes im aware
195 2011-05-24 01:21:04 <sherpacore> luke-jr - yes partially.. you need to sybilize the peer timestamps
196 2011-05-24 01:21:15 <gmaxwell> deepbit can perform reversals already without the timestamp game.
197 2011-05-24 01:21:25 <luke-jr> yep
198 2011-05-24 01:21:28 <phantomcircuit> neoeinstein, the CastToBool function implements it's own check (god knows why) and does so incorrectly, it treats a big endian number as little endian
199 2011-05-24 01:22:03 <phantomcircuit> neoeinstein, i was writing some scripting stuff and was puzzled by it then realized it was totally wrong
200 2011-05-24 01:22:10 <gmaxwell> step 1: send a few megabit DOS to slush to knock it offline, now with >50% hash power it builds it's own alteranative longer chain to erase a prior transaction. tada.
201 2011-05-24 01:22:26 mybit has joined
202 2011-05-24 01:22:50 <fabianhjr> MagicalTux: still there?
203 2011-05-24 01:22:57 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, yeah except the farther back in the chain the longer the ddos has to happen for
204 2011-05-24 01:23:11 mybit has quit (Client Quit)
205 2011-05-24 01:23:14 <gmaxwell> or the more hashpower, sure.
206 2011-05-24 01:23:29 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, i guess that 128 is now officially negative 0 for questions of bools
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208 2011-05-24 01:23:59 <neoeinstein> Would be true, but for this line: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/bignum.h#L247
209 2011-05-24 01:25:00 <phantomcircuit> ahah wat
210 2011-05-24 01:25:01 <neoeinstein> When a CBigNum turned into a vch, it is in little-endian representation
211 2011-05-24 01:25:13 <luke-jr> hahaha
212 2011-05-24 01:25:17 <phantomcircuit> jesus crist
213 2011-05-24 01:25:22 <phantomcircuit> ok then
214 2011-05-24 01:25:24 <phantomcircuit> it's fine
215 2011-05-24 01:25:27 <phantomcircuit> and also insane
216 2011-05-24 01:25:53 <sherpacore> the other way to do it is to put the victim 70 minutes in the past and put the other pools 70 minutes into the future... then create a block with +190 minutes. the victim is stuck on stale blocks for 260 minutes... while the other pools are happily extending it. its more of a way to do pool warfare
217 2011-05-24 01:26:15 <jrmithdobbs> wow
218 2011-05-24 01:26:21 <jrmithdobbs> that is in fact insane
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221 2011-05-24 01:27:26 <Namegduf> sherpacore: Oh, nice
222 2011-05-24 01:27:30 <Namegduf> A timestamp attack
223 2011-05-24 01:27:43 <slush> sherpacore: how to force some pool to break his time? :)
224 2011-05-24 01:27:47 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: hm, so this is still a short term attack, since it breaks the network, so seasoning blocks still addresses it. But I think you are making a good argument for better time hardening in sensitive places.
225 2011-05-24 01:27:56 <gmaxwell> (like pools and exchanges)
226 2011-05-24 01:28:02 <gmaxwell> slush: sybil attack.
227 2011-05-24 01:28:15 <gmaxwell> slush: the node uses a median of neighbors to get the time.
228 2011-05-24 01:28:38 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, pools and exchanges really shouldn't be trusting the network time at all...
229 2011-05-24 01:28:42 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: though I know for a fact that pools are using carefully guarded network connectivity for peering the main pool daemon already (for DOS reasons)
230 2011-05-24 01:29:01 <gmaxwell> you can pickup really awesome GPS DOs on ebay for about $200.
231 2011-05-24 01:29:14 <gmaxwell> I have a pair I use for accurate network latency measurements.
232 2011-05-24 01:29:15 <phantomcircuit> what? you can just run ntpd and get more than close enough
233 2011-05-24 01:29:24 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: ntp is vulnerable to attack.
234 2011-05-24 01:29:34 <slush> gmaxwell: pool isn't using bitcoin network time, of course
235 2011-05-24 01:29:35 <phantomcircuit> you're talking time resolutions on the scale of minutes
236 2011-05-24 01:30:01 <gmaxwell> slush: it does unless you've modified the daemon.
237 2011-05-24 01:30:15 <phantomcircuit> i doubt he's even running the daemon...
238 2011-05-24 01:30:16 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
239 2011-05-24 01:30:25 <gmaxwell> then fine enough.
240 2011-05-24 01:30:29 <slush> gmaxwell: it validates time difference between local time and time in last block, afaik
241 2011-05-24 01:30:47 <slush> phantomcircuit: all current pools are using bitcoin client
242 2011-05-24 01:30:56 <phantomcircuit> slush, seriously? jesus
243 2011-05-24 01:31:13 <gmaxwell> slush: median of 11 prior blocks.
244 2011-05-24 01:31:41 <gmaxwell> it's clamped to ±70 minutes of local time however.
245 2011-05-24 01:31:44 <slush> I did some attempts to do all stuff by self, but there are many stuff to reimplement :(
246 2011-05-24 01:32:33 <phantomcircuit> slush, p2p, block/transaction hash, scripting, storage
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248 2011-05-24 01:32:49 <slush> phantomcircuit: thank you, I didn't know it before ;)
249 2011-05-24 01:32:51 <phantomcircuit> and something to figure out the latest block
250 2011-05-24 01:33:00 <phantomcircuit> it's actually a lot less work than it seems
251 2011-05-24 01:33:07 <neoeinstein> Add in a few more tests, and then I think its time to start writing some network connectivity code...
252 2011-05-24 01:33:08 <gmaxwell> http://cgi.ebay.com/Thunderbolt-PRECISION-GPS-10Mhz-1PPS-Standard-Easy-Kit-/290322053618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43988af9f2 < awesome clocks (and at least when I last dealt with them you could easily haggle them down)
253 2011-05-24 01:33:10 <phantomcircuit> the scripting insanity is by far the most difficult part
254 2011-05-24 01:35:17 bitcoiner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
255 2011-05-24 01:35:30 <sherpacore> gmaxwell, if during that 260 min window you manage to gen another block with +190 minutes, the victim will be forced to fall behind again.. so your chances are pretty good even with 1/26 of the hashpower
256 2011-05-24 01:35:47 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
257 2011-05-24 01:35:49 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.45,"low":6.86,"vol":27836,"buy":7.151,"sell":7.161,"last":7.152}}
258 2011-05-24 01:36:05 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: they still fall off exponentially with longer attacks so long as your hashpower is <%50
259 2011-05-24 01:38:23 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: but yes, sure, so high value targets need to have network health logic, and independant accurate clocks. This is SOP-ish stuff. Though I'm not sure if anyone has actually tried to document this stuff.
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262 2011-05-24 01:40:31 sethsethseth___ has joined
263 2011-05-24 01:41:28 <sherpacore> would it be bad if everyone used their own system time? (while still remembering to use max(realTime, medianBlockTime) when creating new blks)
264 2011-05-24 01:41:41 sethsethseth__ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
265 2011-05-24 01:41:59 khalahan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
266 2011-05-24 01:43:31 <sherpacore> if your time is wrong you will reject blocks, and create bad blocks, so you're essentially out of the loop anyway if your time doesn't agree with >50% of the network
267 2011-05-24 01:43:37 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
268 2011-05-24 01:44:13 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: a lot of systems are a little bit wrong and get happily corrected. For random normal nodes without trustworthy time it wouldn't be great.
269 2011-05-24 01:45:00 <gmaxwell> There is just a question of local vs network (with possible attackers) being more trustworthy, and the depends on who and where you are.
270 2011-05-24 01:45:18 dishwara has joined
271 2011-05-24 01:45:38 dishwara has quit (Client Quit)
272 2011-05-24 01:45:46 <gmaxwell> (the network sybil attack isn't hard, but it's not trivial either, especially if you've pinned up connections to trusted clients, but even without the peer selection tries to make isolating a node hard unless you completely own his net connection.)
273 2011-05-24 01:46:27 <gmaxwell> the client also starts screaming when your local clock and the netwok disagree by some small amount..
274 2011-05-24 01:46:30 <gmaxwell> I think 5 minutes.
275 2011-05-24 01:46:40 kika_ has joined
276 2011-05-24 01:47:05 <sherpacore> yeah it screams if you're off by 70+
277 2011-05-24 01:47:25 <gmaxwell> hm.
278 2011-05-24 01:47:34 <gmaxwell> it just bombs out at 70, doesn't warn.
279 2011-05-24 01:47:36 <gmaxwell> lemme look
280 2011-05-24 01:47:53 <kika_> why i need to run aticonfig --adapters=all -f first for the miners to work fast?
281 2011-05-24 01:48:47 <sherpacore> even if you only talk to trusted peers.. they might be talking to untrusted peers (but what timestamp is presented in version? your perception of network time, or your system time...)
282 2011-05-24 01:49:24 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: importantly, if your trusted peers include the big miners, then it's much harder to screw with you.
283 2011-05-24 01:49:49 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
284 2011-05-24 01:50:36 <sherpacore> the other solution is to just force difficulty increased every X blocks, regardless of the time performance. basically lock it in
285 2011-05-24 01:51:04 <sherpacore> and if the network is genning too fast, cap it - no new payouts until the next difficulty or something
286 2011-05-24 01:51:46 <gmaxwell> difficulty has gone down, and it's expected to not increase forever.
287 2011-05-24 01:52:08 <gmaxwell> it should reach an equilibrium at some point.
288 2011-05-24 01:52:15 <kika_> can someone help me with aticonfig? what aticonfig --adapters=all -f does?
289 2011-05-24 01:52:34 <sherpacore> if miners re-invest their earnings into more GPUs to gain an edge over other pools... then it will go up and up
290 2011-05-24 01:53:16 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: not so, it reaches an flat level when all the block rewards are spent on mining hardware.
291 2011-05-24 01:53:51 <gmaxwell> rather, hardware/operations.
292 2011-05-24 01:54:06 ntosme2 has joined
293 2011-05-24 01:54:34 khalahan_ has joined
294 2011-05-24 01:55:30 DontMindMe has joined
295 2011-05-24 01:55:37 <BlueMatt> guess who has two thumbs and just got bitcoin to compile (still working on linking) using wx 2.8?
296 2011-05-24 01:56:43 <sherpacore> if everyone uses their own system time, they can be 2 hours off and still participate in the chain... seems like enough leeway.. if they for some reason dont have a reliable clock, they can just turn off time bounds checking
297 2011-05-24 01:56:57 ntosme21 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
298 2011-05-24 01:57:36 Asphodelia has joined
299 2011-05-24 01:57:43 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: but they'll produce TX that other people will ignore potentially, if they're up against the rails.
300 2011-05-24 01:57:55 <BlueMatt> AHHHH, guess who just got bitcoin running on wx2.8
301 2011-05-24 01:58:14 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: some asshole with two thumbs?
302 2011-05-24 01:58:16 <gmaxwell> ;)
303 2011-05-24 01:58:28 dlt has joined
304 2011-05-24 01:58:37 <dlt> hi
305 2011-05-24 01:58:49 <BlueMatt> hello
306 2011-05-24 01:59:03 <dlt> someone coult tell me where can i find a xmlrpc specification?
307 2011-05-24 01:59:13 <dlt> i cant find on wiki...
308 2011-05-24 01:59:35 <sherpacore> the only problem there is deepbit and some pools could join together to deliberately submit blocks with >2h timestamps... and freeze out small pools (basically kill the other 50% of the hashpower who will work on stale blocks forever). they would circulate 2 chains (one up to 2h, and the other which is the forward edge of the hashing)
309 2011-05-24 02:00:13 <sherpacore> actually they can do that now i guess...
310 2011-05-24 02:00:23 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: yes, right well, collisions with 50%+ hash power could purely _ignore_ the other pools without touching the time.
311 2011-05-24 02:00:34 <sherpacore> yeah
312 2011-05-24 02:00:42 <gmaxwell> because if they only extend their own blocks they'll be hopeless longer than the other side at some point.
313 2011-05-24 02:01:08 <sherpacore> and then the other 50% would eventually accept the chain (while the real chain just out of time bounds is being extended only by the evil 50%)
314 2011-05-24 02:01:08 <gmaxwell> One of the security assumptions is that this won't happen, won't be allowed to happen.
315 2011-05-24 02:02:08 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: yes, someone recently did a post showing that you didn't quite need 50% to lock out a smaller pool via virtual-collusion e.g. you extend your own blocks, and bob's blocks such that you and bob are >50%.
316 2011-05-24 02:02:39 <gmaxwell> Bob doesn't even have to be going along with your evil, just not ignoring your blocks due to rejecting them for other reasons.
317 2011-05-24 02:02:41 <sherpacore> interesting
318 2011-05-24 02:02:56 ntosme21 has joined
319 2011-05-24 02:02:58 ntosme2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
320 2011-05-24 02:03:10 <gmaxwell> In any case, the concentration of hashpower is certantly bad, thus all the recent howling about deepbit.
321 2011-05-24 02:03:41 <gmaxwell> Unfortunately deepbit has so far refused to voluntarily restrain their size, and community corrective measures have only had moderate effect.
322 2011-05-24 02:04:04 <gmaxwell> There is a proposal to change how pooling works which would substantially reduce a pool's ability to misbehave.
323 2011-05-24 02:04:19 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-251-238-31.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
324 2011-05-24 02:04:25 <gmaxwell> [Tycho] (deepbit) also has offered to fund the creation of better network monitoring tools.
325 2011-05-24 02:04:40 fabianhjr_ has joined
326 2011-05-24 02:04:58 kensai has joined
327 2011-05-24 02:05:47 <sherpacore> seems like the other pools will just merge to compete w/deepb
328 2011-05-24 02:05:48 <gmaxwell> The clients could use better network health monitoring. E.g. a safe TX mode that applies stronger tests to the network health before reporting tx as confirmed.
329 2011-05-24 02:05:58 ntosme2 has joined
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331 2011-05-24 02:06:11 <Namegduf> sherpacore: They don't need to merge
332 2011-05-24 02:06:25 <Namegduf> Just be well behaved
333 2011-05-24 02:07:00 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: no need to merge, I mean, why? if the issue was too much varience keeping customers away then they could soften the varience out of their own pockets to make theirs equal to deepbit.
334 2011-05-24 02:07:14 ntosme21 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
335 2011-05-24 02:07:21 <sherpacore> yeah i spose.. could be easier to do that if they pool their profits
336 2011-05-24 02:07:39 fabianhjr has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
337 2011-05-24 02:07:51 fabianhjr_ is now known as fabianhjr
338 2011-05-24 02:08:24 <gmaxwell> I'm pretty sure that in the interest of the health of the network you could probably talk someone with a lot of coin to make you a float loan while you build up your own variance busting warchest.
339 2011-05-24 02:08:32 <jrmithdobbs> sherpacore: the problem is none of the other pools have their shit together
340 2011-05-24 02:08:38 wolfspraul has joined
341 2011-05-24 02:08:39 <gmaxwell> But I don't really think that getting minimum variance is the issue.
342 2011-05-24 02:08:51 <jrmithdobbs> sherpacore: they go down for 15+ minutes at a time regularly
343 2011-05-24 02:08:54 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: I think none of the pools really have their shit togeather, in fact.
344 2011-05-24 02:09:08 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: yes but deepbit is the lesser of all evils atm unfortunately
345 2011-05-24 02:09:24 <BlueMatt> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9591.0
346 2011-05-24 02:09:28 <BlueMatt> wx2.8 :)
347 2011-05-24 02:09:36 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: but we've discussed this at length privately so i wont rehash ;P
348 2011-05-24 02:09:47 <sherpacore> sweet
349 2011-05-24 02:10:15 <BlueMatt> and they said it couldnt be done :)
350 2011-05-24 02:10:17 ntosme2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
351 2011-05-24 02:10:20 <DontMindMe> hey. is bridging 2 bc clients who dont have port forward activated a good idea? because i basically tried that today. maximum was 600 clients at once :D
352 2011-05-24 02:10:22 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: hey, using three non-deepbit pools with automatic fast failover gets fantastic uptime. Better than deepbit. :)
353 2011-05-24 02:11:09 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: so publish a way to do it that's not a modified miner ;P
354 2011-05-24 02:11:14 <jrmithdobbs> heh
355 2011-05-24 02:13:52 bitcoiner has joined
356 2011-05-24 02:14:08 ntosme2 has joined
357 2011-05-24 02:14:23 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: Eligius
358 2011-05-24 02:14:37 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: yes, there's been a lot of outages lately, but not 15+ minutes regularly
359 2011-05-24 02:15:00 <luke-jr> generally, it's back within 5 minutes
360 2011-05-24 02:15:19 <luke-jr> less than a minute on US now :p
361 2011-05-24 02:15:41 <Asphodelia> It seems like the 0.01/KB rule hasn't really been revised at all since the value of bitcoins was several orders of magnitude ago. By the end of the year a transaction will cost more than a postage stamp. Maybe it's time to adjust?
362 2011-05-24 02:15:51 <gmaxwell> Asphodelia: it's revised in git already.
363 2011-05-24 02:16:05 <Asphodelia> Ah, nice. To what?
364 2011-05-24 02:16:14 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
365 2011-05-24 02:16:14 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.45,"low":6.86,"vol":25456,"buy":7.06,"sell":7.0999,"last":7.0603}}
366 2011-05-24 02:16:14 <gmaxwell> 0.0005 is the MIN_TX now.
367 2011-05-24 02:16:16 <jrmithdobbs> and there are nodes on the live network already using the new rules
368 2011-05-24 02:16:25 <Asphodelia> Right on.
369 2011-05-24 02:16:46 <jrmithdobbs> though not many with much hashing power behind them
370 2011-05-24 02:17:05 <sherpacore> pixar is setting up a btc mining operation
371 2011-05-24 02:17:18 <sherpacore> they are using spare cycles on their massive render farm to mine for coin
372 2011-05-24 02:17:28 <Asphodelia> I find that unlikely; presumably they have more lucrative uses for their GPUs.
373 2011-05-24 02:18:39 <luke-jr> Asphodelia: it's revised on Eligius since it opened
374 2011-05-24 02:18:55 <luke-jr> Asphodelia: Eligius will accept 0.00004096 BTC per 512 bytes
375 2011-05-24 02:19:04 <sherpacore> yeah the timestamp attack of +- 70 is purely theoretical.. if pools/miners use system time instead of network time and if merchants do the same or require a good number of confirms before deliverying the goods, they're fine.
376 2011-05-24 02:19:13 <ArtForzZy> also, wrong
377 2011-05-24 02:19:35 <luke-jr> Asphodelia: but that's below the p2p bandwidth costs, so you need to connect to the free-relay net to do it
378 2011-05-24 02:19:49 <sherpacore> ArtForzZy: ?
379 2011-05-24 02:19:50 <ArtForzZy> the min output rule and fees per kB werent touched in mainline
380 2011-05-24 02:19:58 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: good number of confirms is already a widely known best practice.
381 2011-05-24 02:20:08 <ArtForzZy> main difference is min fee is now 0.005
382 2011-05-24 02:20:10 <ArtForzZy> err
383 2011-05-24 02:20:20 <ArtForzZy> 0.0005
384 2011-05-24 02:20:37 <gmaxwell> wtf is the point of chaning the min fee without changing the per kb /foward rule?
385 2011-05-24 02:20:45 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: subcent txns
386 2011-05-24 02:20:45 <yebyen> is anyone playing blackjack?
387 2011-05-24 02:20:47 <jrmithdobbs> err ya
388 2011-05-24 02:20:50 <sherpacore> yes.. but lots of nodes use network time. hopefully the miners dont
389 2011-05-24 02:21:01 alystair has joined
390 2011-05-24 02:21:02 <gmaxwell> It's just going to enable people to create TXN that won't get forwarded.
391 2011-05-24 02:21:20 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: no, it won't create the txns either
392 2011-05-24 02:21:21 <ArtForzZy> errr... sorry
393 2011-05-24 02:21:22 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
394 2011-05-24 02:21:28 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: the change is ONLY for forwarding (and maybe mining)
395 2011-05-24 02:21:30 <ArtForzZy> fee whas changed to 0.0005/kB
396 2011-05-24 02:21:37 <gmaxwell> Thats what I though.
397 2011-05-24 02:21:42 <Asphodelia> If a cheap double-spend attempt happens, will the standard client raise an alert, or silently discard the extra?
398 2011-05-24 02:21:45 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: the GUI also enforced the minimum
399 2011-05-24 02:21:46 <ArtForzZy> min output is still 0.01
400 2011-05-24 02:21:55 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: the GUI still enforces 0.01
401 2011-05-24 02:22:09 <ArtForzZy> luke-jr: huh?
402 2011-05-24 02:22:16 <gmaxwell> No, the gui enforces the minimum payment, but the minimum fee has been reduced.
403 2011-05-24 02:22:19 <ArtForzZy> GUI just calls GetMinFee
404 2011-05-24 02:22:38 broker has quit (Quit: zisch)
405 2011-05-24 02:22:40 <luke-jr> ArtForzZy: if the GUI/bitcoind interfaces send a fee based on 0.0005 BTC, then things are going to break
406 2011-05-24 02:22:51 <gmaxwell> in .21 the GUI will not let you send a very low prior tx without a fee of at least 0.01.
407 2011-05-24 02:23:01 <ArtForzZy> gmaxwell: water is wet.
408 2011-05-24 02:23:02 <luke-jr> the plan as I understood it, was to delay that change until the version AFTER the relay rules were updated
409 2011-05-24 02:23:09 * BlueMatt has really begun doubting that ArtForzZy lives in germany...its fucking 4 am?
410 2011-05-24 02:23:16 <ArtForzZy> yep
411 2011-05-24 02:23:19 <ArtForzZy> 4:16
412 2011-05-24 02:23:24 Stellar has joined
413 2011-05-24 02:23:29 <BlueMatt> and you are up because?
414 2011-05-24 02:23:33 <sherpacore> das coin
415 2011-05-24 02:23:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt tha'ts obvious
416 2011-05-24 02:23:53 <luke-jr> http://xkcd.com/3
417 2011-05-24 02:23:55 <sherpacore> ArtForzZy: do you have a pool?
418 2011-05-24 02:23:55 <luke-jr> http://xkcd.com/386/
419 2011-05-24 02:23:57 <ArtForzZy> because I can.
420 2011-05-24 02:23:59 <ArtForzZy> sherpacore: nope
421 2011-05-24 02:24:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: lol
422 2011-05-24 02:24:27 <sherpacore> ArtForzZy: do you have to go to work.... or does btc pay you enough
423 2011-05-24 02:24:29 <ArtForzZy> luke-jr: old, but always a nice one
424 2011-05-24 02:24:33 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: sounds like in addition to the good confirm seasoning advice, high value targets out to be advised to establish good time sources and fix themselves to local time. (and also to peer with each other, though I think this is already happening to some extent)
425 2011-05-24 02:24:33 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
426 2011-05-24 02:24:39 <ArtForzZy> I work whenever I want to
427 2011-05-24 02:24:43 <luke-jr> ArtForzZy: because it's so true
428 2011-05-24 02:24:48 <sherpacore> ArtForzZy nice
429 2011-05-24 02:24:49 Rudycoin has joined
430 2011-05-24 02:25:24 caffiend has joined
431 2011-05-24 02:25:49 <BlueMatt> oh well, its 4 am...gnight all, please take a look at wx2.8 and point out how terrible it is :)
432 2011-05-24 02:26:09 <sherpacore> gmaxwell, yeah makes sense... i mean i dont really see anything wrong with putting everyone on system time (they will just fail to accept blocks for some period of time if they are 2h behind, and blocks they create if theyre solo mining will be out of time bounds)
433 2011-05-24 02:26:46 dlt has quit (Quit: Page closed)
434 2011-05-24 02:26:47 <ArtForzZy> also, I currently don't have any major projects for work (well, other than trying to untangle a DOS-based pascal + custom ISA HW mess)
435 2011-05-24 02:26:51 <sherpacore> >50% hashpower votes on acceptable 2h time range
436 2011-05-24 02:27:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: you did it?
437 2011-05-24 02:27:12 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
438 2011-05-24 02:27:19 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yep works afaict
439 2011-05-24 02:27:26 <BlueMatt> but havent had much of a chance to test
440 2011-05-24 02:27:32 <BlueMatt> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9591.0
441 2011-05-24 02:27:38 <BlueMatt> implemented very poorly though
442 2011-05-24 02:27:53 <luke-jr> interesting
443 2011-05-24 02:27:56 <luke-jr> poorly how?
444 2011-05-24 02:28:39 <sherpacore> even if everyone picked their own time randomly without a time source.. whatever time was favored by >50% would create a longest chain
445 2011-05-24 02:29:13 <sherpacore> or a plurality rather
446 2011-05-24 02:29:19 nefario has joined
447 2011-05-24 02:30:59 <sherpacore> the other thing is to encode the # of sunspots at a particular time or level of background radiation somewhere in the universe since thats a physical observation everyone can make
448 2011-05-24 02:32:24 <Asphodelia> Doesn't that require specialized hardware or something, though? You're probably better off with stock prices or something.
449 2011-05-24 02:32:39 <Asphodelia> Or something.
450 2011-05-24 02:32:54 mcqueenorama has joined
451 2011-05-24 02:33:10 <sherpacore> yeah i spose.. you could measure the gravitational effect which would be unique based on the exact wobble of the earth
452 2011-05-24 02:33:27 <sherpacore> but time itself is easily measured with radioactive decay so.. everyone can agree
453 2011-05-24 02:34:08 <sherpacore> in the future youll send entangled particles to your peers, and they read one off every 1 second. if someone reports a wrong spin, you know theyre lying because you can just read the particle from your own stream
454 2011-05-24 02:35:42 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
455 2011-05-24 02:35:49 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: it would be trivial to talk to the local ntp daemon if there is one, and if it thinks its time is good â use that. Interesting question if NTP is more trustworthy though.
456 2011-05-24 02:36:29 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: since on most systems 0wning up one or two NTP servers is all that would be required.
457 2011-05-24 02:36:43 mesees has joined
458 2011-05-24 02:37:10 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: thats worse than a sybil attack that requires drones on a bunch of different /16s.
459 2011-05-24 02:37:54 <gmaxwell> (the advantage of talking to NTP is that it actually knows if its probably right or not)
460 2011-05-24 02:37:57 EPiSKiNG has joined
461 2011-05-24 02:38:17 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
462 2011-05-24 02:38:28 <sherpacore> afaik it is now taking any ip, regardless of subnet but i see your point
463 2011-05-24 02:38:35 caffiend has left ("Leaving")
464 2011-05-24 02:38:43 newbit has joined
465 2011-05-24 02:39:05 <sherpacore> its not too hard to connect to tor and spam out the world
466 2011-05-24 02:39:16 <newbit> is the price of bitcoins likely to go down in the future
467 2011-05-24 02:39:38 <newbit> isnt bitcoins just a giant pyramid scheme
468 2011-05-24 02:39:47 <Asphodelia> sherpacore: Most tor exit nodes block mail-sending ports... are you talking about a DOS on bitcoin?
469 2011-05-24 02:40:02 <gmaxwell> Asphodelia: no he's talking about a sybil attack on network time.
470 2011-05-24 02:40:14 <sherpacore> err i mean spam as in send a bunch of versions or other requests that update the network time
471 2011-05-24 02:40:16 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
472 2011-05-24 02:40:35 <kika_> does anyone know why fedora 14 freezes after a few hours mining with diablominer?
473 2011-05-24 02:40:40 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
474 2011-05-24 02:40:46 newbit has quit (Client Quit)
475 2011-05-24 02:40:53 <gmaxwell> kika_: overheating your video card/ psu?
476 2011-05-24 02:41:08 <kika_> gmaxwell: that might do it freeze?
477 2011-05-24 02:41:08 eao has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
478 2011-05-24 02:41:17 <gmaxwell> yes, that might make it freeze.
479 2011-05-24 02:41:19 <kika_> gmaxwell: the whole system got froozen
480 2011-05-24 02:41:34 <kika_> gmaxwell: well the PSU is a silent pro gold 1200 Watts
481 2011-05-24 02:41:44 <kika_> gmaxwell: and its just one ati 6990 card
482 2011-05-24 02:42:04 <sherpacore> if you pwn ntp, then you either are controlling the victim's uplink and routing him elsewhere, or you pwned the time server.. in the first case, if you control uplink you can isolate him from bitcoin and fork him... in the second case... you pwn the world
483 2011-05-24 02:42:40 <sherpacore> everyone should have their own atomic clock on a card
484 2011-05-24 02:42:48 Astrohacker has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
485 2011-05-24 02:42:49 <gmaxwell> yea, if you own the uplink you can already do their own sybil attack.
486 2011-05-24 02:42:53 <gjs278> haven't had the need for an atomic clock yet
487 2011-05-24 02:43:04 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: I linked to cheap/awesome gpsdo's on ebay.
488 2011-05-24 02:43:06 <ArtForzZy> sherpacore: I just have one in a 3U :/
489 2011-05-24 02:43:07 alystair has quit (Quit: â(ã»_ã»)âOUTTA HEREâ(ã»oã»)â)
490 2011-05-24 02:43:20 <sherpacore> nice
491 2011-05-24 02:43:33 <gmaxwell> the thunderbolts are great, even with the gps down they keep time fantastically once they are up and going.
492 2011-05-24 02:43:46 <ArtForzZy> gmaxwell: well, kinda
493 2011-05-24 02:44:03 <gmaxwell> (they contain really nice OXCOs)
494 2011-05-24 02:44:03 <ArtForzZy> their stock OCXO is rather... meh.
495 2011-05-24 02:44:11 <gmaxwell> I think it's pretty good.
496 2011-05-24 02:44:13 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: i don't like clients actually talking to a cdma/gps time device
497 2011-05-24 02:44:32 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: set the local ntp server off the device and clients talk to that
498 2011-05-24 02:44:35 <ArtForzZy> well, it's better than pretty much all TCXOs, but for a crystal oven... not so great
499 2011-05-24 02:44:44 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: sure sure.
500 2011-05-24 02:44:51 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: as long as it's not a dell it usually has a better internal clock than the device
501 2011-05-24 02:44:55 <jrmithdobbs> in case of outages
502 2011-05-24 02:44:56 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
503 2011-05-24 02:45:24 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: no way man, thats why the thunderbolts are nice, their internal clock is pretty good...
504 2011-05-24 02:45:27 traviscj has joined
505 2011-05-24 02:45:52 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: the cdma devices i've had to work with would drift pretty bad sometimes if they lost signal :(
506 2011-05-24 02:45:57 <gmaxwell> well, okay, depends on if you want it as a frequency standard or a time source. there are different degrees of good. :)
507 2011-05-24 02:46:17 vsrinivas has joined
508 2011-05-24 02:46:46 <vsrinivas> hi; when trying to compile bitcoin, i get this error: https://gist.github.com/988052 ; anyone seen anything like it?
509 2011-05-24 02:46:54 <ArtForzZy> yep
510 2011-05-24 02:47:08 <sherpacore> if you fix the difficulty curve ahead of time, the chain doesn't need to know about time, you are just making assumptions about moores law and such... but it probably wouldnt harm anyone if all 21 million appeared tomorrow
511 2011-05-24 02:47:28 JFK911 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
512 2011-05-24 02:47:31 <Namegduf> sherpacore: The point of difficulty is to limit block generation rate
513 2011-05-24 02:47:38 <Namegduf> Incredibly rapid block generation is bad for the network
514 2011-05-24 02:47:46 <Namegduf> Too slow means transactions don't go through for ages.
515 2011-05-24 02:47:48 <jrmithdobbs> sherpacore: no it'd be awful
516 2011-05-24 02:48:00 DontMindMe has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
517 2011-05-24 02:48:03 <jrmithdobbs> sherpacore: the p2p code would choke on itself trying to xfer that many blocks in that short a time
518 2011-05-24 02:48:18 eao has joined
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520 2011-05-24 02:49:46 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: so what besides transactions can be used to influence time?
521 2011-05-24 02:50:07 Asphodelia has left ()
522 2011-05-24 02:50:07 <jrmithdobbs> i'm wondering how plausible this sibil attack is
523 2011-05-24 02:50:48 <vsrinivas> w
524 2011-05-24 02:50:50 <jrmithdobbs> transactions, block generation, anything non-trivial (ie, not requiring massive hashing power or coins to throw around)
525 2011-05-24 02:50:57 <sherpacore> downloading 420k blocks (21M btc) isnt a big deal... after that the fees wouldnt justify massive compute power
526 2011-05-24 02:51:00 <jrmithdobbs> that does influence?
527 2011-05-24 02:51:41 <sherpacore> the other way is for each btc to represent 1 vote on the production curve
528 2011-05-24 02:51:49 kika_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
529 2011-05-24 02:51:55 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: it's really the version message on connect that matters.
530 2011-05-24 02:52:09 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: wait seriously?
531 2011-05-24 02:52:28 <sherpacore> first you register as a voter (so lost bitcoins arent considered registered voters), then you vote on the production rate.. the plurality wins
532 2011-05-24 02:53:01 <sherpacore> if miners vote to generate 1 block every nanosecond they will vote bitcoin into uselesness (but they wouldnt would they)
533 2011-05-24 02:53:05 <gmaxwell> well the block themselves set one clamp. and it's clamped to ±70 min local time.
534 2011-05-24 02:53:21 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: voting on it would reduce the determinisim of the system.
535 2011-05-24 02:53:50 <sherpacore> yes.. but you don't require a time source and the production rate would maximize the utility for the btc shareholders
536 2011-05-24 02:54:35 BlueMatt has joined
537 2011-05-24 02:55:46 <sherpacore> in most times the majority wouldn't vote to increase production - that would devalue their supply.. they would do it tho if too much btc is held in reserve for whatever reason.. so they adjust based on their own perception of utility
538 2011-05-24 02:55:51 Astrohacker has joined
539 2011-05-24 02:56:05 <sherpacore> a democratic money supply
540 2011-05-24 02:56:23 <AAA_awright> Bitcoin is not democratic
541 2011-05-24 02:56:43 <sherpacore> in one sense it is - the network votes on the current time
542 2011-05-24 02:57:54 dissipate has joined
543 2011-05-24 02:58:16 BlueMattBot has joined
544 2011-05-24 02:58:26 <sherpacore> i would prefer if it were one vote per person, but you cant test for personhood, so one vote per btc is the next best thing
545 2011-05-24 03:02:06 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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550 2011-05-24 03:02:36 <sherpacore> so by proxy >50% of the miners could increase production by agreeing to post and accept 2x timestamps - for every 10 real minutes, the chain appears to go by 20 minutes.. other nodes will accept the first 6 blocks (a lead they cant outhash).. in the next difficulty adjustment, the difficulty goes down
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554 2011-05-24 03:03:15 <gmaxwell> no votes determinism is a better thing on many basis.
555 2011-05-24 03:03:29 <gmaxwell> Besides there are plenty of "democractic" currencies now.
556 2011-05-24 03:05:00 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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558 2011-05-24 03:06:12 <sherpacore> yeah.. it seems a mining majority can speed up production by doubling timestamps.. it would just take 60 real minutes to get 1 confirmation if they did that
559 2011-05-24 03:06:35 tlrobinson has joined
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561 2011-05-24 03:07:29 <gmaxwell> well they can't because eventually (quickly!) they'll go outside of two hours and their blocks will start getting ignored.
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568 2011-05-24 03:13:06 <sherpacore> seems complicated
569 2011-05-24 03:13:09 <phantomcircuit> sherpacore, this has been discussed a lot, the attack works, but only once and only for about 4 blocks
570 2011-05-24 03:13:13 <phantomcircuit> sherpacore, so whatevah
571 2011-05-24 03:13:26 <sherpacore> which attack are we talking about
572 2011-05-24 03:13:35 <phantomcircuit> pushing the timestamps forward
573 2011-05-24 03:15:34 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: he suggested another one which is perhaps a bit more potent. open a 100 connections to each miner from different IPs (gogo tor) and drive their network time +70, then connect to mtgox from 100 IPs and drive its time -70. Now mine, and your blocks are the only ones it heeds, because the real miners are outside of the two hour window. Lets you to temporary blockchain takeovers with less hashpower.
574 2011-05-24 03:16:15 <jrmithdobbs> right
575 2011-05-24 03:16:25 <jrmithdobbs> i think this is actually a plausible attack with real consequences
576 2011-05-24 03:16:59 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, sure but you'd need to be EXACTLY +-70
577 2011-05-24 03:17:20 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: no you can push it up/down slowly with multiple connects
578 2011-05-24 03:17:26 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, and since the exchanges all have fixed peering lists...
579 2011-05-24 03:17:28 <phantomcircuit> good luck with that
580 2011-05-24 03:17:44 <sherpacore> dont those 1-level removed peers talk to other untrusted peers
581 2011-05-24 03:17:53 <gmaxwell> yea, I pointed out that both pools and (I guesseD) exchanges are doing selective peering.
582 2011-05-24 03:17:53 <jrmithdobbs> yup.
583 2011-05-24 03:17:55 <sherpacore> eventually they have to accept a version from an unclean person
584 2011-05-24 03:18:43 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, no in the ~1s it takes a block to propagate the miner woudl have to be +70 and mtgox -70, exactly
585 2011-05-24 03:18:52 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, fat chance
586 2011-05-24 03:19:03 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: except that you have the 5-10 minutes between blocks to do it
587 2011-05-24 03:19:19 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: and just need to appear as >50% to the target
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589 2011-05-24 03:19:45 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: maybe doing it to mtgox specifically is hard but there are other targets
590 2011-05-24 03:19:51 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: would there be anything bad about systems with robust time (e.g. pools and exchanges with local ntp stratum 1 clocks) just disabling the network offset stuff?
591 2011-05-24 03:20:35 <gmaxwell> (or adding a bit of code to query the local ntp daemon and use its time if it thinks its sane, network time otherwise)
592 2011-05-24 03:21:27 <jrmithdobbs> why is the network using itself for time at all?
593 2011-05-24 03:24:03 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, not afaict
594 2011-05-24 03:24:47 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, no actually you dont, the time drift has to be within network latency from the miner to the target
595 2011-05-24 03:24:53 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, so again... fat chance
596 2011-05-24 03:25:20 <gmaxwell> I'm missing why.
597 2011-05-24 03:25:25 <jrmithdobbs> me too
598 2011-05-24 03:25:36 <phantomcircuit> because the block time is checked when it's received
599 2011-05-24 03:25:59 <jrmithdobbs> sure, so between blocks you bump the clock, what am I missing?
600 2011-05-24 03:26:03 <phantomcircuit> maybe im just missing something
601 2011-05-24 03:26:08 <gmaxwell> Right and if theblock time and the target's time disagree by >120 minutes, the block will be ignored.
602 2011-05-24 03:26:22 <gmaxwell> You've driven both clocks out of wack with your sybil attack.
603 2011-05-24 03:26:43 <gmaxwell> the bound isn't tight because you can get them 140 minutes apart.
604 2011-05-24 03:26:50 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: eg, you would start right after a block was found, bombard your targets with bogus connects that drive up and down the clock and get it to +/-70 on either side before the next block
605 2011-05-24 03:27:39 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: what's being missed?
606 2011-05-24 03:28:10 <phantomcircuit> one sec
607 2011-05-24 03:28:31 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
608 2011-05-24 03:29:08 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, oh i see there is a 10 minute gap
609 2011-05-24 03:29:13 <phantomcircuit> hmm
610 2011-05-24 03:29:21 <gmaxwell> I wish I could figure out why we bother with network time at all.. other than as something to compare the local clock to and fail throw an error when its too far off.
611 2011-05-24 03:29:21 <phantomcircuit> yeah you could do it
612 2011-05-24 03:29:47 <phantomcircuit> the patch is simply to change 70 to 60
613 2011-05-24 03:29:49 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: yea if it was ±60 allowed from local time then this would be okay
614 2011-05-24 03:29:51 <phantomcircuit> and magic it's impossible
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616 2011-05-24 03:30:44 <gmaxwell> though if you're going to do 60 you're going to screw people with wrong timezones, might as well go tighter and reduce sillyness some more.
617 2011-05-24 03:31:11 redengin has joined
618 2011-05-24 03:31:17 <gmaxwell> (I assume timezone error is why it's at 70 now)
619 2011-05-24 03:31:40 <phantomcircuit> well i've learned that just because constants seem arbitrary doesn't mean they are...
620 2011-05-24 03:31:44 <gmaxwell> yeaâ¦
621 2011-05-24 03:31:56 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
622 2011-05-24 03:32:10 <gmaxwell> I still don't see why hosts with working NTP couldn't just check the ntp status and use that if ntp reports good health.
623 2011-05-24 03:32:23 <phantomcircuit> ntp is centralized
624 2011-05-24 03:32:40 <gmaxwell> if the hosts time is from ntp then it's local time is already from ntp.
625 2011-05-24 03:32:50 <phantomcircuit> yeah im aware
626 2011-05-24 03:32:53 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: no it's not
627 2011-05-24 03:33:09 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, it totally is, the dns is centrally controlled
628 2011-05-24 03:33:10 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: stratum 1 devices that can check multiple sources are cheap
629 2011-05-24 03:33:13 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: well it is kinda, it's driven from GPS clocks almost everywhere...
630 2011-05-24 03:33:28 <jrmithdobbs> it's just a matter of picking your sources wisely
631 2011-05-24 03:33:30 <gmaxwell> (or cdma clocks which are driven from GPS clocks)
632 2011-05-24 03:33:57 random_cat has joined
633 2011-05-24 03:33:58 <jrmithdobbs> and if you want to argue that then time is centralized
634 2011-05-24 03:34:08 <jrmithdobbs> since governments have decided to arbitrarily fuck with DST/etc
635 2011-05-24 03:34:17 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: right now the fact that if a node listens you can pretty much set its time freely in the allowed window (and change the allowed window if you own NTP too) seems kinda ugly.
636 2011-05-24 03:34:47 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, well you cant actually if the node isn't listening for inbound connections
637 2011-05-24 03:34:58 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: then you target it's peers.
638 2011-05-24 03:35:19 <phantomcircuit> yeah and now the scale of your attack is hilarious
639 2011-05-24 03:35:26 <phantomcircuit> like the entire network more or less
640 2011-05-24 03:35:26 <jrmithdobbs> not really
641 2011-05-24 03:35:31 <gmaxwell> it's a cheap attack though.
642 2011-05-24 03:35:35 <gmaxwell> you need 100 ips.
643 2011-05-24 03:35:40 <jrmithdobbs> no you just need to appear as half the nodes on the network to the targets
644 2011-05-24 03:35:41 <gmaxwell> and lots of connections from each one.
645 2011-05-24 03:35:57 <jrmithdobbs> it's hard, especially with the stock code, to have more than 50-100 connections at a given time
646 2011-05-24 03:35:58 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, >half
647 2011-05-24 03:36:13 <gmaxwell> and you need to do nothing but the version string stuff.
648 2011-05-24 03:36:25 <phantomcircuit> to split network time for two areas of the network you'd need to control a significant % of nodes
649 2011-05-24 03:36:30 <phantomcircuit> probably around 98%
650 2011-05-24 03:36:38 <gmaxwell> yea the splitting is hard, you've got me there.
651 2011-05-24 03:36:38 <jrmithdobbs> basically the /16 limitation that was added to increase reliability opens the network up to this
652 2011-05-24 03:37:04 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, well only if you're not very clever
653 2011-05-24 03:37:05 <phantomcircuit> hehe
654 2011-05-24 03:37:14 <gmaxwell> but you don't need to control much, as mentioned you only need 100 IPs or so
655 2011-05-24 03:37:24 <jrmithdobbs> aka, tor
656 2011-05-24 03:37:27 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: the spliting while also trying to connect to all the peers of the hidden nodes.
657 2011-05-24 03:37:45 <gmaxwell> they can be on the same /24 for all the time code cares
658 2011-05-24 03:37:56 <jrmithdobbs> ya, finding the peers of mtgox and such is the hard part
659 2011-05-24 03:38:05 <jrmithdobbs> and if that's the hardest part i think it's a real problem
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662 2011-05-24 03:38:55 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, no you'd need to control a large % of the network, since you'd need to completely split the network up
663 2011-05-24 03:39:08 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: no you don't
664 2011-05-24 03:39:15 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: you just need to split your targets up
665 2011-05-24 03:39:15 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: why? just overwhelm the median operaiton.
666 2011-05-24 03:39:28 <gmaxwell> *operation.
667 2011-05-24 03:39:35 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: that's enough to cause havoc
668 2011-05-24 03:40:00 eianpsego has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
669 2011-05-24 03:40:02 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, each ip gets 1 vote
670 2011-05-24 03:40:13 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, 128 connections max
671 2011-05-24 03:40:16 <phantomcircuit> per node
672 2011-05-24 03:40:26 <phantomcircuit> assumign most peers are ~ right time
673 2011-05-24 03:40:59 Slix` has joined
674 2011-05-24 03:41:01 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: eg, you'd shoot for pushing deepbit+slush forward 70min and then whoever your real target is back by 70, ify ou can do it in <10 minutes the majority of blocks genned will be rejected by your target
675 2011-05-24 03:41:13 <phantomcircuit> (120+60)/128
676 2011-05-24 03:41:20 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: now you have 1-2 hours to make use of it
677 2011-05-24 03:41:33 fimp has joined
678 2011-05-24 03:41:33 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: do it a few times a day for a couple of days and you'll get lucky
679 2011-05-24 03:41:46 <jrmithdobbs> it's sibil+race condition (the race condition being based on your hash rate)
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681 2011-05-24 03:42:31 <sherpacore> it seems as if you have more then 66% of the hash power (double everyone else) you can do the push time forward thing, since they will take 30 minutes to create a block (by which time your next +2h block is already accepted, and it only took you 15 minutes).. they will keep popping blocks off your chain ad infinitum (and youve already paid the future bounties to yourself)
682 2011-05-24 03:42:58 kisom_dev has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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684 2011-05-24 03:43:08 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: the hard part is doing it to targets where you get monetary gain
685 2011-05-24 03:43:11 meLon has joined
686 2011-05-24 03:43:12 <phantomcircuit> sherpacore, if you have 66% of the hash power you can do whatever the hell you want
687 2011-05-24 03:43:19 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: if your goal is just to wreak havoc it becomes much more trivial
688 2011-05-24 03:43:46 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, if that's your goal then sophisticated timing attacks are a total waste of time
689 2011-05-24 03:43:51 <phantomcircuit> you could trivially DoS the network
690 2011-05-24 03:44:02 <phantomcircuit> seriously you could do it with a single 100mbps server
691 2011-05-24 03:44:04 <phantomcircuit> no problem
692 2011-05-24 03:44:04 <sherpacore> (but by that logic a 66% splinter off the original 66% group could usurp 1/3 of the conspiracy)
693 2011-05-24 03:44:10 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: yes but this is a builtin limitation of the protocol, not an issue with the current implementation
694 2011-05-24 03:44:32 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, the 70 minutes point can be narrowed
695 2011-05-24 03:44:54 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
696 2011-05-24 03:45:35 [thor] has quit (Quit: Broken bong)
697 2011-05-24 03:46:57 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: shouldn't be trusting time from *connecting* nodes in the first place though
698 2011-05-24 03:47:40 <gmaxwell> ah, incoming connection limits would twart doing this attack quickly.. without actually really participating in the network.
699 2011-05-24 03:48:04 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, yes that was my point
700 2011-05-24 03:48:47 underscor has joined
701 2011-05-24 03:48:56 <sherpacore> isnt it true if you accept any time offset you can be hacked? push deepbit/megamine down 5 minutes, everyone else +5 minutes, create a block +125 minutes (megamine rejects and continues mining a stale block... the rest of the network posts a new block and in 10 minutes megamine now must accept 2 blocks (or mined 2x times everyone else)
702 2011-05-24 03:49:25 joepie91 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
703 2011-05-24 03:49:39 <sherpacore> so megamine never gets to mine anything
704 2011-05-24 03:49:48 <phantomcircuit> lol yes
705 2011-05-24 03:49:54 <phantomcircuit> that's actually completely true
706 2011-05-24 03:49:56 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
707 2011-05-24 03:49:59 <phantomcircuit> wow
708 2011-05-24 03:50:01 <phantomcircuit> epic fail
709 2011-05-24 03:50:02 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: see, this has other implications than trying to cashout in mtgox
710 2011-05-24 03:50:14 <jrmithdobbs> that's what i was trying to say and failing to illustrate, haha
711 2011-05-24 03:50:32 joepie91 has joined
712 2011-05-24 03:50:36 <jrmithdobbs> at the very least it's an effective attack for monkeying with difficulty given good targets
713 2011-05-24 03:51:58 <jrmithdobbs> unless BlueMattBot/sipa/jgarzik/gavin can point out something we're missing
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721 2011-05-24 03:56:46 <sherpacore> what if the 2hours is based on localtime+2h instead of nettime.. then the max lag could only be a few seconds assuming high value nodes have good time sources.. and continue using nettime for all the other calculations
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723 2011-05-24 04:00:09 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: it would mean nodes with boinked clocks would be forwarding the wrong blockchain frequently all on their own with no attack
724 2011-05-24 04:00:21 <gmaxwell> (e.g. no intentional attack at least)
725 2011-05-24 04:01:31 <sherpacore> i think its highly theoretical without any practical app... given the pools use system time and only talk to trusted hosts.. but a client without sufficient guards could be subtly messed with - the cost of doing it wouldnt be worth it tho heh
726 2011-05-24 04:03:03 <jrmithdobbs> sherpacore: what cost? boredom and a tor client?
727 2011-05-24 04:03:27 <gmaxwell> sherpacore: well they're defended by normal good practices: wait until you get many confirmed before doing anything you might regret.
728 2011-05-24 04:04:11 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: this kind of redefines how many confirmations are safe to rely though
729 2011-05-24 04:04:21 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: taking it from to 6 to at least 13
730 2011-05-24 04:04:45 <gmaxwell> does it? the attacker has to mine all the confirm blocks too, while keeping the attack up.
731 2011-05-24 04:04:46 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: and that's assuming hash power hasn't increased significantly since last diff change. pretty big assumption
732 2011-05-24 04:05:21 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: that's just a race condition, do it enough times and you get lucky
733 2011-05-24 04:05:23 stez has joined
734 2011-05-24 04:05:29 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: this isn't exactly something that's going to be immediately noticed
735 2011-05-24 04:05:35 <jrmithdobbs> not until it actually causes impact
736 2011-05-24 04:06:29 <gmaxwell> well thats another obvious improvement, network health checks inthe client, and a paranoid mode that leave tx as unconfirmed if it thinks the network is unhealthy.
737 2011-05-24 04:06:36 oneman has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
738 2011-05-24 04:06:43 <gmaxwell> a bunch of valid current diff blocks being rejected based on time is unhealthy.
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741 2011-05-24 04:07:58 <jrmithdobbs> that would help, but it doesn't address the fact that you could disturb txn processing during those times
742 2011-05-24 04:08:03 <gmaxwell> every current difficulty invalid time is a really expensive warning that something is wrong wrong wrong.
743 2011-05-24 04:08:08 <jrmithdobbs> at least to some specific segment of the network
744 2011-05-24 04:08:25 <gmaxwell> yea but you could flood the same node right off the network.
745 2011-05-24 04:08:35 <gmaxwell> bitcoind has a bunch of fairly obvious DOS vectors too.
746 2011-05-24 04:09:10 <jrmithdobbs> just throw a decent ammount of legit miners without the async-io rpc patches, for instance
747 2011-05-24 04:09:13 <jrmithdobbs> lol
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749 2011-05-24 04:09:56 <sherpacore> seems like with +-70 you get a 140 minute window to feed the victim phony blocks.. if you have 50% hashpower, you can send him 7 confirms.. so deepbit could probably empty out mtgox in a couple hours heh
750 2011-05-24 04:10:00 <gmaxwell> e.g. if bad network health is mostly detected based on valid difficulty but invalid time blocksâ thats far too expensive to fake as a DOS attack.
751 2011-05-24 04:10:34 <sherpacore> pump up everyone +70, create a block thats 70+120 = 190 which is+260 from the victims view (so he needs 140 minutes till he accepts it)
752 2011-05-24 04:11:08 <gmaxwell> well, as mentioned paranoid peering practice probably make it impossible for that particular target.
753 2011-05-24 04:11:19 <jrmithdobbs> ya mtgox is a bad example
754 2011-05-24 04:11:31 <jrmithdobbs> but joe the plumber accepting bitcoin for his services is not
755 2011-05-24 04:11:37 redengin has joined
756 2011-05-24 04:11:43 <sherpacore> during that 140 minutes, you are deepbit sized so you can send 7 confirms.. and then he has a +7 chain vs a +1 chain.. so add another 60 minutes for the victim to resync to the main chain.. thats like 10 confirms in total
757 2011-05-24 04:11:47 <sherpacore> yeah
758 2011-05-24 04:12:22 <sherpacore> an unprotected client could theoretically get 10 confirms if hes up against deepbut, and he accepts time offset, and he has open peers
759 2011-05-24 04:12:34 <gmaxwell> part of the joe plumber solution should be commercial reversal insurance services in any case.
760 2011-05-24 04:12:56 <gmaxwell> Since he'll want faster than one block confirms for some business, and an insurer could provide for that.
761 2011-05-24 04:13:34 <gmaxwell> as a side effect he'll also guard against a lot of these attacks.
762 2011-05-24 04:14:29 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
763 2011-05-24 04:14:50 <sherpacore> for the full on attack, you have to up the rest of the network's time.. so you need to be able to upset the other main miners.. they have acl's and system time, so not really possible unless theyre in on it
764 2011-05-24 04:16:29 <sherpacore> otherwise you have just a 70 minute window to feed phony confirms... so you can do 3-4 maybe if youre deepbit
765 2011-05-24 04:17:16 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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768 2011-05-24 04:19:09 <sherpacore> oh no not 10 confirms.. you only have 140 minutes, so like 7 confirms.. then hes already back on the main chain
769 2011-05-24 04:19:26 BlueMatt has joined
770 2011-05-24 04:21:42 <sherpacore> but if you have many trials... say 1,000, your chances are better of doubling your phony chain... if you are attacking an exchange and they have a few billion, the expected returns are high heh
771 2011-05-24 04:22:05 oneman has joined
772 2011-05-24 04:22:13 <gmaxwell> the fact that time is only taken on connect complicates this I think.
773 2011-05-24 04:22:34 <jrmithdobbs> complicates but doesn't nullify imho
774 2011-05-24 04:22:43 <gmaxwell> even if you flood target's guard with connects you can't move his time until he reconnects to it in any cas.e
775 2011-05-24 04:22:54 <gmaxwell> agreed.
776 2011-05-24 04:23:07 <sherpacore> // Each connection can only send one version message
777 2011-05-24 04:23:08 <jrmithdobbs> this + a few well targeted short term ddoses to cause reconnects ...
778 2011-05-24 04:23:11 <jrmithdobbs> you see where I'm going
779 2011-05-24 04:23:47 <gmaxwell> hm. I think you can use this to overcome the connection limit.
780 2011-05-24 04:23:57 18VAADBET has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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782 2011-05-24 04:24:08 <jrmithdobbs> especially considering the (lack of) timeout handling in net.cpp
783 2011-05-24 04:24:08 <gmaxwell> say he only has one slot open, you cycle through 200 IPs in that one slot, I don't think they go away from the set on disconnect.
784 2011-05-24 04:24:38 <jrmithdobbs> wait really?
785 2011-05-24 04:24:45 gwelymernan has joined
786 2011-05-24 04:25:11 <gmaxwell> I don't see anything take an item out of vTimeOffsets.
787 2011-05-24 04:25:33 <gmaxwell> // Ignore duplicates
788 2011-05-24 04:25:33 <gmaxwell> static set<unsigned int> setKnown;
789 2011-05-24 04:25:33 <gmaxwell> if (!setKnown.insert(ip).second)
790 2011-05-24 04:25:33 <gmaxwell> return;
791 2011-05-24 04:25:34 <gmaxwell> ...
792 2011-05-24 04:25:36 <gmaxwell> static vector<int64> vTimeOffsets;
793 2011-05-24 04:25:39 <gmaxwell> vTimeOffsets.push_back(nOffsetSample);
794 2011-05-24 04:26:15 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
795 2011-05-24 04:26:43 <gmaxwell> so, pluses: takes more connects to overwhelm, minus: takes only one concurrent connect, .. can also run a node out of memory if you get enough IPs I guess. :)
796 2011-05-24 04:26:53 <gmaxwell> (does this support IPv6? :) )
797 2011-05-24 04:27:03 Rudycoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
798 2011-05-24 04:29:21 <jrmithdobbs> it kind of pretends to
799 2011-05-24 04:29:37 <jrmithdobbs> i've not bothered actually trying to connect to bitcoind via ip6 though, let me see
800 2011-05-24 04:30:03 acfrazier has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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802 2011-05-24 04:31:24 <jrmithdobbs> wow allowing ip6 rpc would be tedious as fuck
803 2011-05-24 04:31:25 <jrmithdobbs> haha
804 2011-05-24 04:31:53 stez has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
805 2011-05-24 04:32:08 <gmaxwell> yea, but it looks like you can push any node you can connect to over and over again from different IPs to a hard ± 70 from which it won't ever recover from.
806 2011-05-24 04:32:12 acfrazier has joined
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809 2011-05-24 04:33:01 <gmaxwell> just take a /20 and connect from each IP one at a time and feed it -69.9 or +69.9 and it'll be so stuffed with bad data that it won't know what to do.
810 2011-05-24 04:33:22 <sherpacore> when does the client actually send a version? is that an optional command
811 2011-05-24 04:33:22 <jrmithdobbs> how do i not have nc6 installed
812 2011-05-24 04:33:23 <jrmithdobbs> ha
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814 2011-05-24 04:34:29 <gmaxwell> it's mandatory.
815 2011-05-24 04:34:39 <gmaxwell> // Must have a version message before anything else
816 2011-05-24 04:34:41 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: looks like right now it only binds to 0.0.0.0:8333 not ::8333
817 2011-05-24 04:34:41 <sherpacore> hmm
818 2011-05-24 04:35:03 <jrmithdobbs> err you know what i mean
819 2011-05-24 04:35:14 <sherpacore> is that in rpc.cpp where it constructs the version msg
820 2011-05-24 04:35:28 <jrmithdobbs> no it's in net.cpp
821 2011-05-24 04:36:38 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: that looks to be more a bug/oversight though, it really should be binding to 0.0.0.0:8333 and :::8333
822 2011-05-24 04:37:50 <gmaxwell> well with v6 anyone with a v4 address can run your node out of ram eventually. ;)
823 2011-05-24 04:38:28 <sherpacore> if it takes the adjustedtime when sending version, then the victim is going to slightly adjust his peers when he versions them, but probably not by a large amt
824 2011-05-24 04:38:30 <gmaxwell> just by connecting once from every IP in a 6to4 /64 and getting an entry added to the seen IP set.
825 2011-05-24 04:38:33 <sherpacore> the bitcoin code is awesome
826 2011-05-24 04:39:23 <sherpacore> seems like its easy to add stuff. the obejct model is really well designed
827 2011-05-24 04:39:33 <jrmithdobbs> starting to wonder if satoshi is hiding in shame ;P
828 2011-05-24 04:39:49 <gmaxwell> pshaw. well, I think it's pretty readable.
829 2011-05-24 04:40:01 <gmaxwell> At least we can answer these questions without much work, and mostly reach right conclusions.
830 2011-05-24 04:40:11 <sherpacore> it uses iterators so no worrying about buffer overflows and the like which is nice
831 2011-05-24 04:40:45 <gmaxwell> I skimmed through all of it before getting on IRC and blabbing about bitcoin and didn't have any difficulty doing it. (though I didn't understand a fair bit, and didn't read it that critically)
832 2011-05-24 04:41:14 <sherpacore> bitcon is perfect!
833 2011-05-24 04:41:29 <sherpacore> looking up the source gives me some confidence to buy more.. its rock solid
834 2011-05-24 04:42:12 <jrmithdobbs> freudian slip or intentional commentary? ha
835 2011-05-24 04:42:20 <jrmithdobbs> 23:34 < sherpacore> bitcon is perfect!
836 2011-05-24 04:42:24 <sherpacore> err bitcoin
837 2011-05-24 04:42:31 <jrmithdobbs> heh
838 2011-05-24 04:43:38 <sherpacore> anyway i dont think timing can be abused, except in a hyper theoretical sense.. seems like the 2h window for accepting/rejecting a block should just be based on localtime, then the only consequence is youll lag behind and take longer to get confirmations if your system clock is way behind
839 2011-05-24 04:43:47 <sherpacore> or make it +2h from the median time of the past 11
840 2011-05-24 04:44:07 <sherpacore> min(real+2h, median+2h)
841 2011-05-24 04:46:01 <sherpacore> that way everyone excepts the block because the only criteria it cant be more than >2h the median (even if it really took longer, the chain acts like a drifting clock that adjust slowly to prevent abuse)
842 2011-05-24 04:46:25 bushing has joined
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844 2011-05-24 04:47:57 <sherpacore> that is, the criteria for new block timestamp is 0-2h from the median11..
845 2011-05-24 04:48:33 <sherpacore> so even if your nettime is pushed down 70 minutes, you will still accept the same blocks everyone else does based on the median
846 2011-05-24 04:49:05 <sherpacore> and if youre pushed up, you cant be fooled into accepting a block no one else would (since everyone is pegged to the median)
847 2011-05-24 04:49:31 <sherpacore> so it seems like just making it symmetrical would fix any discrimination based on differing times
848 2011-05-24 04:50:34 <sherpacore> if mining power drops.. then the time has to decay 2 hours for every 11 blocks...
849 2011-05-24 04:51:03 <sherpacore> so the difficulty is adjusted 5 times slower than it would be or something
850 2011-05-24 04:51:41 <sherpacore> you could have it back off like Tcp.. median+2h for 11... then median+4h....
851 2011-05-24 04:51:51 meLon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
852 2011-05-24 04:52:37 johnlockwood has quit (Quit: johnlockwood)
853 2011-05-24 04:52:44 <sherpacore> anyway not an issues except philosophically.. bitcoin is totally secure
854 2011-05-24 04:53:52 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
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858 2011-05-24 05:00:24 <sherpacore> if the philosophical goal is to adjust production over time, then the +2h threshold should proably be based on real time (not what sybils claim the time is).. over time means real world time, so the network must do a secret ballot (each determines his own time and hashpower votes on what the time realy is) if the philosophical goal is just to slow the rate of production... then +2h should
859 2011-05-24 05:00:24 <sherpacore> be based on median of past blocks...
860 2011-05-24 05:01:28 dinox has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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863 2011-05-24 05:03:09 <sherpacore> in the second an attacker generating medianlen/2 blocks can now make it 4h, so the medianlength/2 should be # of conseuctive blocks that would be beyond an evil person to do.. 20 consecutive blocks would be hard for an evil person with ~50%.. 99.9999046% it wont happen
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870 2011-05-24 05:35:24 <bushing> does anyone have a little bit of time to help me troubleshoot why I can no longer make any transactions? I can receive money, but no outgoing transactions seem to make it onto the network
871 2011-05-24 05:35:57 <ne0futur> bushing: upgrade to the last version ( .21 )
872 2011-05-24 05:36:03 <bushing> maybe it thinks my coins are double-spent? this all started when I was trying to fix a ghost transaction
873 2011-05-24 05:36:04 <doublec> bushing: have you looked on bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin for them?
874 2011-05-24 05:36:13 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
875 2011-05-24 05:36:13 <ne0futur> if you re still using .20 confirmations for sent money can take 12 hours or more
876 2011-05-24 05:36:47 <bushing> yes, I have ⦠I was running .7 for a long time, accidentally, which actually seemed to work fine ⦠now I'm running .21, and I've waited >24 hours, and no, they don't make bitcoincharts or blockexplorer ⦠moment
877 2011-05-24 05:36:49 RenaKunisaki has joined
878 2011-05-24 05:37:03 <ne0futur> bushing: and probably you ll have more answers on #bitcoin-dev
879 2011-05-24 05:37:31 <ne0futur> bushing: and you dont have a firewall somewhere ? or an ISP blacklisting the btc port ?
880 2011-05-24 05:37:58 <jrmithdobbs> ne0futur: this is #bitcoin-dev
881 2011-05-24 05:38:02 <bushing> this is bitcoin-dev. I have like 140 connections
882 2011-05-24 05:38:11 <bushing> here's the transaction info, and the wallet tx: http://pastie.org/private/teimy5o14wxixfknwxr7la
883 2011-05-24 05:38:15 <ne0futur> "this all starurps, again i m on the bad channel , sorry ;(
884 2011-05-24 05:38:21 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
885 2011-05-24 05:38:30 <bushing> the first transaction in the tx log is visible on the network but the last one isn't
886 2011-05-24 05:38:51 <bushing> and before this, I was seeing almost instant confirmations of some sort
887 2011-05-24 05:39:17 <bushing> so 2d3029f11⦠never hit the network
888 2011-05-24 05:39:52 blueteeth has quit (Quit: Page closed)
889 2011-05-24 05:39:56 <bushing> I've tried deleting the transactions from wallet.dat and rebuilding them using bitcoin -rescan; I'm not sure if that hurt, but it hasn't helped
890 2011-05-24 05:40:11 <bushing> (deleted the transactions using bc_tx)
891 2011-05-24 05:40:25 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
892 2011-05-24 05:40:57 <bushing> to my uneducated eye, it would almost seem like my transactions are getting rejected
893 2011-05-24 05:41:06 <jrmithdobbs> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/9eb16c3af37b0f341dc4bd04b740dc5fa56c3ba3db2ba452f388b46518a36706
894 2011-05-24 05:41:12 <jrmithdobbs> it went through?
895 2011-05-24 05:41:19 <bushing> [22:31:51] <bushing> the first transaction in the tx log is visible on the network but the last one isn't
896 2011-05-24 05:41:29 <bushing> those are the last 2 txns in wallet.dat
897 2011-05-24 05:41:37 <jrmithdobbs> well fuck dude just paste the right txn id
898 2011-05-24 05:41:49 <jrmithdobbs> instead of making me scroll through the shittiest pastebin site ever
899 2011-05-24 05:41:52 <bushing> [22:32:38] <bushing> so 2d3029f11⦠never hit the network
900 2011-05-24 05:42:30 <jrmithdobbs> good luck, 'night
901 2011-05-24 05:42:34 <bushing> thanks
902 2011-05-24 05:43:46 <phantomcircuit> bushing, the resend timer is set to every 30 minutes
903 2011-05-24 05:43:47 <phantomcircuit> so
904 2011-05-24 05:43:50 <phantomcircuit> just wait
905 2011-05-24 05:43:58 <phantomcircuit> make sure you're connected to the network and wait
906 2011-05-24 05:44:05 <phantomcircuit> dont restart the client
907 2011-05-24 05:44:12 <phantomcircuit> since it's not smart enough to save the timer
908 2011-05-24 05:44:51 <bushing> i let it sit 8 hours, it's 22:37:18 local time here
909 2011-05-24 05:44:54 <bushing> (connected, etc)
910 2011-05-24 05:45:23 <bushing> so that's why I wonder if it's simply getting rejected
911 2011-05-24 05:46:31 <ne0futur> I d go to sleep and see tomorrow if I were you
912 2011-05-24 05:46:54 <ne0futur> and go back to a backup of my wallet if its not better tomorrow
913 2011-05-24 05:47:31 <bushing> I've done that; that was just my most recent attempt :( I've now gone through the process of sending a test transaction, waiting a couple of days, then trying to repair my wallet and trying again 3 times now
914 2011-05-24 05:48:01 <bushing> should the client get any feedback if it sends an invalid txn?
915 2011-05-24 05:49:21 <BurtyBB> hi bushing, didn't expect to see you here :)
916 2011-05-24 05:49:29 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
917 2011-05-24 05:49:30 * bushing waves :)
918 2011-05-24 05:50:00 <bushing> meh, I'll look and see what I have in the way of older wallets, sigh
919 2011-05-24 05:51:25 TD has joined
920 2011-05-24 05:51:51 <jrmithdobbs> bushing: try moving addr.dat out of the way, reconnecting, and going to bed
921 2011-05-24 05:52:08 <jrmithdobbs> bushing: you might just be broadcasting to/preferring some broken nodes
922 2011-05-24 05:52:19 <bushing> hm, okay, will do, thanks
923 2011-05-24 05:57:04 <cosurgi> stupid question - does mainline client finally support encryptrd wallet?
924 2011-05-24 05:57:24 zooko has joined
925 2011-05-24 05:57:29 <cosurgi> I remember there was a branch for that
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929 2011-05-24 06:13:35 <_ape> ah even famous people use bitcoin apparently, haha :P
930 2011-05-24 06:14:51 <dissipate> _ape, what famous people?
931 2011-05-24 06:15:00 <dissipate> is charlie sheen using bitcoin?
932 2011-05-24 06:15:58 mcqueenorama has quit (Quit: Page closed)
933 2011-05-24 06:16:34 dissipate has quit (Client Quit)
934 2011-05-24 06:17:08 <_ape> well hes famous enough for sony to go after anyway :P
935 2011-05-24 06:17:15 dissipate has joined
936 2011-05-24 06:17:59 <noagendamarket> lol
937 2011-05-24 06:18:35 <bushing> :P
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971 2011-05-24 07:11:26 <kevin__> Hi,I am interested in bitcoin and i want to know the mechanism of bitcoin.
972 2011-05-24 07:11:32 Clarence__ has left ()
973 2011-05-24 07:12:00 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
974 2011-05-24 07:12:08 <kevin__> Could anyone tell me what is blocks?
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987 2011-05-24 07:21:50 <stuhood> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block
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1004 2011-05-24 07:41:12 <diki> wake uuuuppp people
1005 2011-05-24 07:41:32 noagendamarket has joined
1006 2011-05-24 07:42:47 <Clarence> everybody needs sleep
1007 2011-05-24 07:42:52 <DontMindMe> diki: NO!!
1008 2011-05-24 07:43:54 <diki> 5 hours are needed for sleep
1009 2011-05-24 07:43:57 <diki> no more
1010 2011-05-24 07:44:17 <diki> i usually go to bed 2-3-4AM and wake up at ~7:30
1011 2011-05-24 07:44:18 <Clarence> well, most are getting it right now
1012 2011-05-24 07:44:31 <Clarence> aren't you special
1013 2011-05-24 07:44:33 <diki> there isn't time dude
1014 2011-05-24 07:45:05 <Clarence> there isn't time not to
1015 2011-05-24 07:46:17 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1016 2011-05-24 07:49:15 <uppe> most people would be awake right now actually
1017 2011-05-24 07:49:19 random_cat has joined
1018 2011-05-24 07:49:33 <uppe> given that europe + asia is in broad daylight right now
1019 2011-05-24 07:49:50 <Clarence> what category of people?
1020 2011-05-24 07:50:08 <uppe> Clarence: there's a world outside your pretty little island
1021 2011-05-24 07:50:17 <Clarence> I stand corrected
1022 2011-05-24 07:51:07 <diki> yeah it's 10 am here....
1023 2011-05-24 07:51:12 <DontMindMe> try "The Uberman". http://a81.img-up.net/sleep3zgrm.jpg
1024 2011-05-24 07:51:15 <Clarence> but I must interject... I could say that most people life on another planet where they sleep at this time.. there's a world outside of yours too
1025 2011-05-24 07:51:43 Stellar has joined
1026 2011-05-24 07:52:16 <uppe> Clarence: but you can't prove that :-)
1027 2011-05-24 07:52:22 <uppe> i can prove my statement
1028 2011-05-24 07:52:26 <Clarence> oh well, it's the internet :)
1029 2011-05-24 07:55:23 amiller has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1030 2011-05-24 07:55:45 bitlife has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1031 2011-05-24 07:56:15 <diki> The internet commands you: wake up :P
1032 2011-05-24 07:58:47 Niedar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1036 2011-05-24 08:16:25 <Nesetalis> -throws a boot at diki-
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1050 2011-05-24 08:46:18 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt nice! 03:51:17 <@BlueMatt> AHHHH, guess who just got bitcoin running on wx2.8
1051 2011-05-24 08:46:18 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1052 2011-05-24 08:48:37 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1058 2011-05-24 09:01:03 <gjs278> gribble, fetch me the mtgox prices
1059 2011-05-24 09:01:05 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
1060 2011-05-24 09:01:05 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.23,"low":6.86,"vol":16502,"buy":6.9999,"sell":7.0767,"last":7}}
1061 2011-05-24 09:01:17 <gjs278> 6.99 is unacceptable robot
1062 2011-05-24 09:01:43 d1g1t4l has joined
1063 2011-05-24 09:07:09 TD has joined
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1069 2011-05-24 09:21:43 <Egolibuster> hi totally new to bitcoin and not a geek myself
1070 2011-05-24 09:22:00 <da2ce7> Egolibuster, welcome.
1071 2011-05-24 09:22:02 <sipa> welcome!
1072 2011-05-24 09:22:28 <Egolibuster> I would love to be able to accept bitcoin on my magento shop. Too stupid to understand how to adapt all that php stuff.
1073 2011-05-24 09:22:37 <da2ce7> ;view 2883
1074 2011-05-24 09:22:42 <da2ce7> ;;view 2883
1075 2011-05-24 09:22:44 <gribble> #2883 Mon May 23 22:31:49 2011 da2ce7 SELL 1.0 noagendamarket date @ 1 btc (None)
1076 2011-05-24 09:22:48 <Egolibuster> anyone here working on such a module?
1077 2011-05-24 09:22:56 <sipa> Egolibuster: i've seen questions about magento on the forum
1078 2011-05-24 09:23:10 <Egolibuster> cool, will have a look
1079 2011-05-24 09:23:11 <da2ce7> ;;google magento
1080 2011-05-24 09:23:12 <gribble> Magento: <http://www.magentocommerce.com/>; Home page - Magento Commerce Demo Store: <http://demo.magentocommerce.com/>; Magento: <http://www.magento.com/>
1081 2011-05-24 09:23:17 <AAA_awright> Isn't there a channel where we don't talk about elliptic curve cryptography and key-exchanges and SHA algorithms written in OpenCL?
1082 2011-05-24 09:23:33 <Diablo-D3> AAA_awright: no.
1083 2011-05-24 09:23:51 <da2ce7> AAA_awright, are you dreaming?
1084 2011-05-24 09:24:04 <AAA_awright> :)
1085 2011-05-24 09:24:24 <Egolibuster> sipa, you meant the bitcoin forum, not the magento forum, right?
1086 2011-05-24 09:24:25 <sipa> AAA_awright: #bitcoin :)
1087 2011-05-24 09:24:28 <sipa> Egolibuster: yes
1088 2011-05-24 09:24:45 <AAA_awright> Do we own that channel now?
1089 2011-05-24 09:24:50 <sipa> yes
1090 2011-05-24 09:24:57 <AAA_awright> Nice
1091 2011-05-24 09:25:00 <da2ce7> er. isn't it spamy still from old clients?
1092 2011-05-24 09:25:41 <da2ce7> hmm... werid. I've never been in #bitcoin/ is it used much?
1093 2011-05-24 09:25:51 <sipa> there are 10 left
1094 2011-05-24 09:26:00 <sipa> it's the general discussion channel
1095 2011-05-24 09:26:07 <sipa> what used to be #bitcoin-discussion
1096 2011-05-24 09:26:21 <AAA_awright> I thought Freenode G-lined them
1097 2011-05-24 09:27:30 <da2ce7> ah so we don't have old client spam anymore.
1098 2011-05-24 09:27:39 ThomasV has joined
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1100 2011-05-24 09:28:28 <da2ce7> sipa, how is your wallet cypto going?
1101 2011-05-24 09:28:37 <sipa> BlueMatt is doing that
1102 2011-05-24 09:29:46 TheAncientGoat has joined
1103 2011-05-24 09:29:55 <da2ce7> ah using the ECDH insted of RSA?
1104 2011-05-24 09:30:09 <sipa> BlueMatt's implementation uses AES256
1105 2011-05-24 09:30:15 <sipa> no public key cryptography
1106 2011-05-24 09:30:25 <da2ce7> gah.
1107 2011-05-24 09:30:37 <da2ce7> what you were researching was far seperior.
1108 2011-05-24 09:30:53 <da2ce7> *superior
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1110 2011-05-24 09:31:52 <sipa> it had one disadvantage: someone with write access to your wallet could add his own keys in your key pool
1111 2011-05-24 09:37:42 <da2ce7> so you have your all your ECDH-DSA keys signed by and encripted by a master ECDH-DSA key... you have to enter your passowrd too generate new addresses also.
1112 2011-05-24 09:38:01 <diki> sipa, are you the person maintaining bitcoin?
1113 2011-05-24 09:38:19 <da2ce7> it gets kinda complicated...
1114 2011-05-24 09:38:37 <da2ce7> but no secure system is single layed.
1115 2011-05-24 09:40:56 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
1116 2011-05-24 09:40:59 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126269 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 738 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 22 hours, 55 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 396182.38043487
1117 2011-05-24 09:41:01 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r8a2419a / (2 files in 2 dirs): Updated license headers by request - http://bit.ly/kUoGFj
1118 2011-05-24 09:41:05 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
1119 2011-05-24 09:41:05 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.2,"low":6.86,"vol":16541,"buy":7.0787,"sell":7.0999,"last":7.0787}}
1120 2011-05-24 09:46:57 stuhood1 has joined
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1125 2011-05-24 09:52:06 <diki> why are people saying that if you invest in mining rig you wont even get 20% of the investment back?
1126 2011-05-24 09:52:20 <Diablo-D3> because people are retarded
1127 2011-05-24 09:52:46 <mtrlt> and retarded people can't do maths
1128 2011-05-24 09:52:58 <diki> to be honest with bitcoins i was able to buy a cooler for my cpu, buy a domain and a bit more to buy another 5850
1129 2011-05-24 09:53:23 <mtrlt> with bitcoins i have been able to buy 4 6990s
1130 2011-05-24 09:53:55 <diki> and i like got 3-4 times more monay than the actual power used
1131 2011-05-24 09:53:56 stuhood2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1132 2011-05-24 09:54:00 <diki> *money
1133 2011-05-24 09:54:14 <mtrlt> yep, 1 BTC costs me $0.56 in power
1134 2011-05-24 09:54:25 <mtrlt> even at the current diff.
1135 2011-05-24 09:54:31 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
1136 2011-05-24 09:54:32 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.2,"low":6.86,"vol":15436,"buy":7.0787,"sell":7.1,"last":7.0999}}
1137 2011-05-24 09:54:56 <diki> i calculate my power by my wattage used 24/7 for 30 days i.e a month
1138 2011-05-24 09:56:49 <diki> My CPU is 125w tdp, and gpu is 151 tdp at stock which it is = ~275 watts + some other peripherals = ~300
1139 2011-05-24 09:56:57 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1140 2011-05-24 09:57:07 <diki> but since my cpu is idle, even a bit underclocked
1141 2011-05-24 09:57:26 <mtrlt> i use a power meter.
1142 2011-05-24 09:57:32 <diki> i wish i had a kill-a-watt
1143 2011-05-24 09:57:35 <mtrlt> around 850 watts for 2x6990 at 910mhz
1144 2011-05-24 09:57:54 <diki> another 5850 would add me like 151 watts more
1145 2011-05-24 09:59:26 Spenvo has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
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1148 2011-05-24 10:02:44 <Diablo-D3> I dont recommend more than 2x6990 on a single board unless you're power modding
1149 2011-05-24 10:03:13 <diki> why not?
1150 2011-05-24 10:03:26 <diki> afaik, there no multi-board mobos
1151 2011-05-24 10:03:31 <diki> dual-socket, yeah, but not dual mobo
1152 2011-05-24 10:03:42 <Diablo-D3> why not? because ATX shafted you.
1153 2011-05-24 10:03:47 <Diablo-D3> or actually, AMD technically did
1154 2011-05-24 10:04:08 <diki> if you are talking about me damaging my card\
1155 2011-05-24 10:04:28 <diki> that was a combo of high OC, high voltage, small case and high temps
1156 2011-05-24 10:04:33 <diki> I think at least...
1157 2011-05-24 10:04:46 <diki> however it is stable if i mine at 98% gpu usage
1158 2011-05-24 10:04:49 <diki> hasn't crashed once
1159 2011-05-24 10:04:59 <Diablo-D3> diki: no
1160 2011-05-24 10:05:01 <Diablo-D3> damaging the mobo
1161 2011-05-24 10:05:04 <diki> But if i load it with OCCT using linpack...then oh man..
1162 2011-05-24 10:05:24 <Diablo-D3> 6990s pull more than 75w off the slot rail at stock
1163 2011-05-24 10:05:26 <diki> the only way a mobo can be damaged if it's a 4+1 phase and you stick a thuban there and OC it to 4Ghz
1164 2011-05-24 10:05:33 <Diablo-D3> see above.
1165 2011-05-24 10:05:40 <diki> and the slot only provides 75 watts
1166 2011-05-24 10:05:45 <diki> you cant pull mroe than that
1167 2011-05-24 10:05:47 <Diablo-D3> not quiiite.
1168 2011-05-24 10:05:48 <diki> *more
1169 2011-05-24 10:05:52 <diki> Yes quiite
1170 2011-05-24 10:06:07 <diki> everything else is pulled from the power connectors
1171 2011-05-24 10:06:24 <Diablo-D3> okay, if the ATX 12v pins supply x, and you pull more than y*4, where y is a slot, and y is 75 watts....
1172 2011-05-24 10:06:31 <diki> which in a 6990 is 1x 6-pin and 1x 8 pin or 2x8pin
1173 2011-05-24 10:06:32 <Diablo-D3> and y > x
1174 2011-05-24 10:06:35 <Diablo-D3> then you're fucked.
1175 2011-05-24 10:06:56 <Diablo-D3> diki: 6990 is more than 375 stock. it has 2 8 pins. each is 150.
1176 2011-05-24 10:07:22 <diki> so you burned a 6990 or what?
1177 2011-05-24 10:07:37 <Diablo-D3> no, the mobo will be damaged, pay attention
1178 2011-05-24 10:07:44 <diki> has it been proved?
1179 2011-05-24 10:07:47 <diki> Is this just a theory?
1180 2011-05-24 10:07:49 <Diablo-D3> an ATX24 plug can only supply about 150w.
1181 2011-05-24 10:08:05 <Diablo-D3> a 6990 pulls 75 or more off one rail.
1182 2011-05-24 10:08:09 <Diablo-D3> what is 75 and 75.
1183 2011-05-24 10:08:18 Egolibuster has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1184 2011-05-24 10:08:32 <diki> go on
1185 2011-05-24 10:08:43 <Diablo-D3> this is basic math, diki
1186 2011-05-24 10:08:54 <Diablo-D3> 2 slots at max load is already hitting the maximum
1187 2011-05-24 10:09:11 <diki> <Diablo-D3> what is 75 and 75.<- There is no quesrion mark, thus not a question
1188 2011-05-24 10:09:19 <diki> It could be a rhetorical qustion
1189 2011-05-24 10:09:21 <Diablo-D3> nope, it is a statement.
1190 2011-05-24 10:09:34 <Diablo-D3> 6990 + 6990 = max atx24 load on 12v.
1191 2011-05-24 10:09:49 <Diablo-D3> dont add any more cards.
1192 2011-05-24 10:10:05 <diki> so you are saying i shouldnt buy another 5850 for my mobo?
1193 2011-05-24 10:10:11 <Diablo-D3> bingo.
1194 2011-05-24 10:10:21 <diki> I am still gonna buy tho
1195 2011-05-24 10:10:31 <Diablo-D3> yes, and you will be like two other people in here
1196 2011-05-24 10:10:43 <mtrlt> diki has 2x6990?
1197 2011-05-24 10:10:55 <diki> i *has 1x5850
1198 2011-05-24 10:10:58 <diki> soon to be 2x5850
1199 2011-05-24 10:11:02 <mtrlt> mmyea
1200 2011-05-24 10:11:10 <Diablo-D3> everyone doing more than 150w off pci-e total are using power modded risers
1201 2011-05-24 10:11:12 <mtrlt> Diablo-D3: see it was me talking about having 2x6990
1202 2011-05-24 10:11:17 <mtrlt> :P
1203 2011-05-24 10:11:33 <diki> my mobo has 2x pci-e x16 slots
1204 2011-05-24 10:11:39 <diki> one is running at x4 tho
1205 2011-05-24 10:11:42 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: no, he asked
1206 2011-05-24 10:11:45 <Diablo-D3> [05:56:04] <Diablo-D3> I dont recommend more than 2x6990 on a single board unless you're power modding
1207 2011-05-24 10:11:45 <Diablo-D3> [05:56:33] <diki> why not?
1208 2011-05-24 10:12:01 <diki> a 5850 is 151w tdp
1209 2011-05-24 10:12:02 <mtrlt> yea but why did you say that line :P
1210 2011-05-24 10:12:13 <diki> that one crappy watt can't possibly destroy a mobo
1211 2011-05-24 10:12:17 <Diablo-D3> [05:50:55] <mtrlt> around 850 watts for 2x6990 at 910mhz
1212 2011-05-24 10:12:30 <mtrlt> and no-one talked about having more than 2x6990 :(
1213 2011-05-24 10:12:37 <Diablo-D3> diki: no, 5850 has a 6 and an 8 usually, and its pulling almost all the power off the plugs
1214 2011-05-24 10:12:52 <diki> a 5850 has 2x6pin connectors
1215 2011-05-24 10:12:58 <Diablo-D3> mine has 2 and 8.
1216 2011-05-24 10:13:04 <diki> then you are screwed
1217 2011-05-24 10:13:15 <Diablo-D3> on the contrary, its a much better card
1218 2011-05-24 10:13:15 <diki> Although mine is reference
1219 2011-05-24 10:13:30 <Diablo-D3> 2x6 gives you 150 total.
1220 2011-05-24 10:13:46 <diki> and the max tdp of a 5850 is?
1221 2011-05-24 10:13:53 darkskiez has joined
1222 2011-05-24 10:14:00 <Diablo-D3> 151 @ 725
1223 2011-05-24 10:14:11 <Diablo-D3> any additional power comes off the mobo
1224 2011-05-24 10:14:27 <diki> if 2x6pin give 150 watts total
1225 2011-05-24 10:14:43 <diki> then, those power connectors are already powering the card
1226 2011-05-24 10:14:51 <Diablo-D3> yes, but anything OVER that comes from the mobo
1227 2011-05-24 10:14:52 <diki> if not, then that means there is a small headroom for OC
1228 2011-05-24 10:15:03 <Diablo-D3> mines 765 factory stock
1229 2011-05-24 10:15:15 <Diablo-D3> and 6+8 gives you 225
1230 2011-05-24 10:15:18 <diki> the other card i am going to buy is 730mhz stock
1231 2011-05-24 10:15:27 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1232 2011-05-24 10:15:37 <Diablo-D3> and 8+8 is 300, like I said earlier
1233 2011-05-24 10:16:30 <diki> well, VC MSI R5850 TWIN FROZR II is 725 mhz but it's a bit over my budget
1234 2011-05-24 10:16:43 <diki> so i might get the asus one which is 765mhz, but
1235 2011-05-24 10:17:09 <diki> However, in crossfire if i choose to do, the faster card downclocks itself to the settings of the slower card
1236 2011-05-24 10:17:32 <diki> even if i don't i may downclock on my own
1237 2011-05-24 10:19:00 sherpacore has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1238 2011-05-24 10:19:01 <Diablo-D3> diki: not quite.
1239 2011-05-24 10:19:13 <Diablo-D3> driver just stalls rendering
1240 2011-05-24 10:19:42 <diki> I need 300 bux for that card
1241 2011-05-24 10:19:52 Cory has joined
1242 2011-05-24 10:19:52 <diki> this includes shipping and any fees from paypal
1243 2011-05-24 10:19:59 <diki> i currently have $130
1244 2011-05-24 10:20:06 <diki> 135 actually
1245 2011-05-24 10:20:17 Cory is now known as Guest67877
1246 2011-05-24 10:20:35 <Guest67877> ?
1247 2011-05-24 10:20:43 <diki> ??
1248 2011-05-24 10:21:16 <diki> Anyway, diablo, the issue i will face is cooling..
1249 2011-05-24 10:21:33 <diki> i don't want a rocket inside my hous so i must do something...
1250 2011-05-24 10:21:38 <diki> *house
1251 2011-05-24 10:23:13 Guest67877 has quit (Client Quit)
1252 2011-05-24 10:23:35 stuhood1 has joined
1253 2011-05-24 10:25:43 <diki> so diablo, what hashing to use for storing my passwords? i chose md5 but not just md5(pass) it's a custom 3-4way hashing
1254 2011-05-24 10:25:53 stuhood1 has quit (Client Quit)
1255 2011-05-24 10:25:56 <diki> with salt
1256 2011-05-24 10:26:22 stuhood has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1257 2011-05-24 10:31:47 lumos is now known as lolicon
1258 2011-05-24 10:32:16 lolicon is now known as sixyearolds
1259 2011-05-24 10:36:10 <Diablo-D3> 100000 round PBKDF2 with a 128 bit salt using SHA512 as the hash
1260 2011-05-24 10:36:28 <diki> is that even feasable with php?
1261 2011-05-24 10:37:06 <Diablo-D3> lolphp
1262 2011-05-24 10:37:24 <diki> Deepbit is written in php
1263 2011-05-24 10:37:27 <diki> slush also
1264 2011-05-24 10:37:43 <diki> php wins anytime
1265 2011-05-24 10:37:45 <slush> no, python
1266 2011-05-24 10:37:49 <diki> it's used in Facebook
1267 2011-05-24 10:37:50 <Diablo-D3> php is fucking fail
1268 2011-05-24 10:38:09 <Diablo-D3> diki: er, dude, facebook is a java shop.
1269 2011-05-24 10:38:15 <diki> orly?
1270 2011-05-24 10:38:24 <diki> maybe you hadnt noticed .php on most pages
1271 2011-05-24 10:38:34 <Diablo-D3> dude, I dont have a facebook account
1272 2011-05-24 10:38:37 <Diablo-D3> only losers have those
1273 2011-05-24 10:38:45 <sipa> facebook is largely php
1274 2011-05-24 10:38:58 <sipa> but they have their own php-to-c compiler, i believe
1275 2011-05-24 10:39:05 <sipa> ... weird idea
1276 2011-05-24 10:39:22 <Diablo-D3> sipa: then they can stop using java
1277 2011-05-24 10:40:56 <sipa> don't know if they use java, but it's certainly possible
1278 2011-05-24 10:41:12 <diki> google is multi-platform but they largely use python
1279 2011-05-24 10:41:43 <da2ce7> sipa, n' co: http://hostinga.imagecross.com/image-hosting-01/7853bitcoincypto.png
1280 2011-05-24 10:41:45 soossii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1281 2011-05-24 10:41:51 <da2ce7> this is what I had in my head.
1282 2011-05-24 10:43:13 <sipa> why two keys per address?
1283 2011-05-24 10:43:26 <Diablo-D3> because its over 9000
1284 2011-05-24 10:43:53 <da2ce7> because you shouldn't encrypt and sign with the same key.
1285 2011-05-24 10:44:03 <sipa> you don't
1286 2011-05-24 10:44:40 <sipa> per key you'd have: a ECDSA pubkey, an ECDH pubkey, an ECDH-encrypted ECDSA privkey
1287 2011-05-24 10:45:20 <sipa> bitcoin doesn't use encryption itself
1288 2011-05-24 10:45:28 <da2ce7> you also need a ecdh, private key...
1289 2011-05-24 10:45:50 <sipa> read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_Encryption_Scheme
1290 2011-05-24 10:45:51 <BlueMatt> sipa: btw, the only actual issue with wx was string conversion between wxString, std::string, wxChar, char
1291 2011-05-24 10:45:55 <BlueMatt> (and string literal crap)
1292 2011-05-24 10:46:01 <diki> tbh i don't understand all thse pub,private,intimate keys at all
1293 2011-05-24 10:46:37 <sipa> da2ce7: read http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7830.0?
1294 2011-05-24 10:47:23 <diki> so basically you are all working on encrypting the wallet and making sure no one can fetch it via memory either?
1295 2011-05-24 10:47:52 <sipa> da2ce7: there are 3 types of keys in the system: the master key, the per-key ephemeral key, the real ecdsa keys
1296 2011-05-24 10:48:28 <sipa> BlueMatt: seen my comment in the forum?
1297 2011-05-24 10:48:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: you cant override functions based on return in c++ can you?
1298 2011-05-24 10:48:42 <sipa> ah, that's the problem
1299 2011-05-24 10:48:46 <BlueMatt> (as that is whats required)
1300 2011-05-24 10:49:11 <BlueMatt> yea wx2.9 converts gracefully automatically, you have to do it yourself in 2.8
1301 2011-05-24 10:49:29 <BlueMatt> and _ needs to return std::string, wxString, and char* depending on the situation
1302 2011-05-24 10:49:31 <sipa> where does _ come from now?
1303 2011-05-24 10:49:34 <BlueMatt> wx
1304 2011-05-24 10:49:41 <BlueMatt> (or util.h ifndef GUI)
1305 2011-05-24 10:49:48 <sipa> but it does string->string?
1306 2011-05-24 10:49:56 <BlueMatt> no wxString -> wxString
1307 2011-05-24 10:50:00 <sipa> ah
1308 2011-05-24 10:50:21 <BlueMatt> or...I think its string-> wxString
1309 2011-05-24 10:50:31 <BlueMatt> no, sorry its char* -> wxString
1310 2011-05-24 10:50:39 <sipa> and GetTranslationChar?
1311 2011-05-24 10:50:54 <BlueMatt> for when you need to return a char*
1312 2011-05-24 10:50:58 Sage has joined
1313 2011-05-24 10:51:09 <Sage> hey guys
1314 2011-05-24 10:51:31 <BlueMatt> (and the crazy chars showing up, I think, is just crap because I stupidly didnt read and did a bunch of .mb_str() on stuff that isnt temporary)
1315 2011-05-24 10:51:35 <BlueMatt> hi S
1316 2011-05-24 10:51:39 <BlueMatt> Sage:
1317 2011-05-24 10:51:49 <da2ce7> so ECIES is justa more effecent way of doing the same thing as I did with two sets of keys.
1318 2011-05-24 10:52:43 <Sage> has it ever happened to you that your screen got distorter after setting memory to 400mhz on 6990?
1319 2011-05-24 10:52:48 <sipa> ECIES = ECDH on master key + ephemeral key + symmetric encryption using the hash of the resulting agreed pubkey as key
1320 2011-05-24 10:52:53 RenaKunisaki has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1321 2011-05-24 10:52:57 <sipa> ECIES = ECDH on (master key + ephemeral key) + symmetric encryption using the hash of the resulting agreed pubkey as key
1322 2011-05-24 10:53:08 <diki> serious trolling here: http://horriblesubs.org/
1323 2011-05-24 10:53:15 <BlueMatt> are we still on that encryption scheme?
1324 2011-05-24 10:53:18 <diki> they should change it to a comedian site
1325 2011-05-24 10:53:48 <sipa> BlueMatt: don't bother :)
1326 2011-05-24 10:54:41 MasterChief has joined
1327 2011-05-24 10:55:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: hmm, maybe you could make some utility functions str, wxstr, cstr that all have 3 versions, taking all combinations?
1328 2011-05-24 10:56:05 <sipa> meh, nvm
1329 2011-05-24 10:56:13 <BlueMatt> I pretty much do...just different names
1330 2011-05-24 10:56:23 <BlueMatt> but not wxstr, I just use _ for that
1331 2011-05-24 10:56:26 <sipa> ok
1332 2011-05-24 10:56:43 <sipa> but not all strings that need this conversion, need to be translated, right?
1333 2011-05-24 10:56:57 <BlueMatt> yep, thats what _T() is for
1334 2011-05-24 10:57:10 <sipa> i should have studied your patch better :)
1335 2011-05-24 10:57:10 <BlueMatt> string literals still need converted via macros to wx crap
1336 2011-05-24 10:57:16 Sage has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1337 2011-05-24 10:57:28 <BlueMatt> and the other stuff needs something like wxString(strThing.c_str(), wxConvUTF8)
1338 2011-05-24 10:57:35 <BlueMatt> or string(wxString.mb_str())
1339 2011-05-24 10:57:49 <BlueMatt> (the second one returns a temp pointer, which I think is where a fucked up a ton
1340 2011-05-24 10:58:06 <diki> BlueMatt: and i thought you said you didn't know C/C++ :)
1341 2011-05-24 10:58:12 <diki> that's knowing a lot
1342 2011-05-24 10:58:40 <BlueMatt> diki: thats almost all from here: http://wiki.wxwidgets.org/Converting_everything_to_and_from_wxString
1343 2011-05-24 10:58:41 <BlueMatt> :)
1344 2011-05-24 10:59:19 <diki> i still have no idea what macros is
1345 2011-05-24 10:59:24 <diki> apart from a macro picture
1346 2011-05-24 10:59:41 <BlueMatt> oh, thats just when you see #define...
1347 2011-05-24 11:00:01 <BlueMatt> like #define FUNCTION(thing) otherFunctionThatActuallyGetsCalled()
1348 2011-05-24 11:00:17 <diki> isn't define used to make constants?
1349 2011-05-24 11:00:18 <BlueMatt> which I should probably have done largely instead of the wxString conv crap
1350 2011-05-24 11:01:03 <BlueMatt> define can be used for macros and constants which can be tested with #ifdef/#if
1351 2011-05-24 11:01:06 <BlueMatt> but not with if()
1352 2011-05-24 11:01:16 <BlueMatt> those constants are static const int ...
1353 2011-05-24 11:01:37 <diki> isn't #ifdef used on compile time to determine some stuff
1354 2011-05-24 11:01:43 <sipa> yes
1355 2011-05-24 11:01:44 <BlueMatt> yep
1356 2011-05-24 11:01:53 <BlueMatt> (that is all out my ass and may all be wrong)
1357 2011-05-24 11:01:59 <diki> then it doesnt actually do checks when the program has been compiled and you run it
1358 2011-05-24 11:02:12 <BlueMatt> yea
1359 2011-05-24 11:02:13 <sipa> BlueMatt: #define'd things don't exist at all at compile time, they have been resolved in the preprocessor stage
1360 2011-05-24 11:02:24 <BlueMatt> if() if for run, #if is for compile
1361 2011-05-24 11:02:26 <sipa> they don't really have a time
1362 2011-05-24 11:02:41 <BlueMatt> meh, I call preprocessor compile
1363 2011-05-24 11:02:42 <sipa> *typw
1364 2011-05-24 11:02:53 <BlueMatt> if its running in make, its compile as far as Im concerned
1365 2011-05-24 11:02:59 <sipa> ok sure, but still, they are very different from a const static int variable
1366 2011-05-24 11:03:11 <BlueMatt> yes, veryt
1367 2011-05-24 11:08:03 <diki> i dont understand how inline assembly works
1368 2011-05-24 11:08:14 <diki> so you have a function and inside it some assembly
1369 2011-05-24 11:08:23 <diki> how the hell do they intereact together...
1370 2011-05-24 11:08:28 <diki> *interactr
1371 2011-05-24 11:08:32 * diki ...
1372 2011-05-24 11:08:47 <sipa> simple: the compiler copies the assembly to the output
1373 2011-05-24 11:08:52 <sipa> instead of compiling it
1374 2011-05-24 11:11:09 brooss has quit (Quit: Rage Quit)
1375 2011-05-24 11:12:42 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1376 2011-05-24 11:13:50 deaf has joined
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1381 2011-05-24 11:26:15 <beppu> diki: it's been a while since I've done assembly, but the variables from the C/C++ side should just be addresses in memory that the inline asm should be able to resolve.
1382 2011-05-24 11:28:48 <beppu> diki: Also, the contents of the stack are predictable so there is another set of data the asm side can easily access.
1383 2011-05-24 11:30:20 <beppu> diki: There are rules for how function parameters are supposed to be pushed to the stack.
1384 2011-05-24 11:31:13 Speeder has joined
1385 2011-05-24 11:31:37 <lfm> if you look at the compiler's assembly output intermediat stage you might get an idea how its done
1386 2011-05-24 11:32:13 Tomo_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1387 2011-05-24 11:32:32 <diki> i've seen assembly output
1388 2011-05-24 11:32:41 <BlueMatt> sipa: slight fixup pushed, care to test and see any strings you saw as broken are fixed?
1389 2011-05-24 11:32:41 <diki> quite a lot when i tried to unpack Crysis2.exe
1390 2011-05-24 11:32:43 <beppu> Was it gcc -S that outputs asm?
1391 2011-05-24 11:33:17 <lfm> beppu: ya
1392 2011-05-24 11:33:36 <beppu> thx. it has been aa while
1393 2011-05-24 11:34:50 <diki> 64bit assembly addressed the registers with RAX rather than EAX, right?
1394 2011-05-24 11:35:01 <diki> rax,rbs etc
1395 2011-05-24 11:35:25 <beppu> my experience ended in the 32bit era
1396 2011-05-24 11:35:26 <lfm> diki dissassembled binary is actually quite different from compiler asm output
1397 2011-05-24 11:35:35 <diki> how so?
1398 2011-05-24 11:36:00 <lfm> well the variable names and even line numbers of the C source are in the asm file
1399 2011-05-24 11:36:13 <beppu> more readable
1400 2011-05-24 11:36:14 <BlueMatt> can I get people to test: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/tree/wx2.8
1401 2011-05-24 11:36:22 <diki> I see.
1402 2011-05-24 11:36:35 <diki> Ollydbg is a nice disasm
1403 2011-05-24 11:37:13 <diki> I prefer v1 cause it has plugins allowing me to hide olly from Isdebuggerpresent
1404 2011-05-24 11:37:30 <sipa> BlueMatt: compiling
1405 2011-05-24 11:38:04 <lfm> diki well open source has no need for that
1406 2011-05-24 11:39:35 <beppu> thank god ;)
1407 2011-05-24 11:40:26 <beppu> in open source, you can see aglimmer of what a civil society might be like.
1408 2011-05-24 11:40:26 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1409 2011-05-24 11:41:33 <lfm> ya, it can be kinda idealistic
1410 2011-05-24 11:43:04 <sipa> BlueMatt: works better already, but the status column still sometimes still has empty strings, and the bottom bar has superfluous characters sometimes
1411 2011-05-24 11:43:23 <BlueMatt> ah, ok I see it...one sec
1412 2011-05-24 11:44:33 <sipa> oh, and scrolling is very slow, but that may be related
1413 2011-05-24 11:44:39 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,stats
1414 2011-05-24 11:44:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126292 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 715 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 20 hours, 31 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 396359.62100705
1415 2011-05-24 11:44:41 seasnake4 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1416 2011-05-24 11:45:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: hm, odd...scrolling is slow?
1417 2011-05-24 11:45:22 <BlueMatt> arg I dont have a scrollable wallet on this machine, you have a testnet one I can borrow?
1418 2011-05-24 11:45:23 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes, but that's maybe because it 'detects' a lot of strings changed, and redraws them
1419 2011-05-24 11:45:33 <BlueMatt> it very well could be
1420 2011-05-24 11:45:54 <sipa> so, first try to fix the overwritten strings-issue :)
1421 2011-05-24 11:45:58 marlowe has joined
1422 2011-05-24 11:46:01 <BlueMatt> fair enough
1423 2011-05-24 11:46:51 <sipa> and i'm testing with a real wallet actually (don't worry, no actual available funds in it you can steal :p)
1424 2011-05-24 11:47:27 <sipa> oh no, wait, now you're going to implement a features that extracts all private keys and sends them to you...
1425 2011-05-24 11:47:32 <BlueMatt> awww, my backdoor to steal sipa's coins didnt work...
1426 2011-05-24 11:47:44 marlowe has quit (Client Quit)
1427 2011-05-24 11:48:06 <BlueMatt> I keep my real wallet on a server and dont move it off unless it is encrypted
1428 2011-05-24 11:48:21 marlowe has joined
1429 2011-05-24 11:48:26 <BlueMatt> this machine just has a ton of test wallets I use for testing, but none have enough txes to scroll
1430 2011-05-24 11:49:45 <sipa> i don't get any connections though
1431 2011-05-24 11:49:48 <sipa> even when using -connect
1432 2011-05-24 11:49:56 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
1433 2011-05-24 11:49:57 <gribble> 126294
1434 2011-05-24 11:50:06 <BlueMatt> I can always connect to my 24/7 fallback node
1435 2011-05-24 11:52:17 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1436 2011-05-24 11:57:04 eternal1 has joined
1437 2011-05-24 12:00:55 <BlueMatt> ok sipa easily fixed, stupid mistake, yet again
1438 2011-05-24 12:01:02 <BlueMatt> ( I think)
1439 2011-05-24 12:01:09 DukeOfURL has joined
1440 2011-05-24 12:06:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: same
1441 2011-05-24 12:06:57 <BlueMatt> hm?
1442 2011-05-24 12:07:26 <BlueMatt> in that case, I cant reproduce, what is the error?
1443 2011-05-24 12:07:30 <sipa> i still see empty status fields
1444 2011-05-24 12:07:39 <sipa> when i scroll, it changes
1445 2011-05-24 12:07:45 <BlueMatt> which one is the status field?
1446 2011-05-24 12:07:51 <sipa> the first column
1447 2011-05-24 12:08:01 <BlueMatt> oh, I have no txes...on minute
1448 2011-05-24 12:09:19 <BlueMatt> ok, now I see crazy errors like htat
1449 2011-05-24 12:09:21 <BlueMatt> that*
1450 2011-05-24 12:11:34 <BlueMatt> sipa: try now
1451 2011-05-24 12:11:49 <BlueMatt> (though I still have yet to get a tx with which to try)
1452 2011-05-24 12:13:19 Kurtov has joined
1453 2011-05-24 12:15:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: a lot better, but still slow scrolling :(
1454 2011-05-24 12:16:10 larsivi has joined
1455 2011-05-24 12:16:13 <BlueMatt> I thought as much, care to send a wallet over?
1456 2011-05-24 12:16:18 <BlueMatt> (testnet obviously)
1457 2011-05-24 12:16:36 <lfm> bluematt or I could send you some testnet coins
1458 2011-05-24 12:16:48 <sipa> don't have any tnBTC here, i think
1459 2011-05-24 12:17:02 <BlueMatt> well Im tracking down a bug with testnet on the wx2.8 branch atm so...not really
1460 2011-05-24 12:17:05 <BlueMatt> but really I need txes not coins
1461 2011-05-24 12:17:37 <lfm> I can send you 100 to make what you want of them
1462 2011-05-24 12:17:55 <BlueMatt> alright, well let me work out this bug 1st
1463 2011-05-24 12:18:55 <sipa> BlueMatt: valgrind reports an error here
1464 2011-05-24 12:19:18 <sipa> BlueMatt: http://pastebin.com/c0mkjFei
1465 2011-05-24 12:19:45 <BlueMatt> ah, yep ok the conversion fails...arg
1466 2011-05-24 12:20:04 zooko has left ("#tahoe-lafs")
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1475 2011-05-24 12:29:46 <diki> on average...how much ram do you think a pool server needs?
1476 2011-05-24 12:29:55 <diki> It's not much but i've only given my VM 360...
1477 2011-05-24 12:30:03 da2ce7 is now known as Julia_Gillard
1478 2011-05-24 12:30:08 <diki> cause 1GB is already used by Windows...
1479 2011-05-24 12:30:20 <sipa> why would you run a pool server on windows?
1480 2011-05-24 12:30:23 ntosme2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1481 2011-05-24 12:30:32 <diki> Cause i don't have any other machines?
1482 2011-05-24 12:30:33 <BlueMatt> why would you run any server on windows?
1483 2011-05-24 12:30:37 <BlueMatt> vm
1484 2011-05-24 12:30:45 Julia_Gillard is now known as da2ce7
1485 2011-05-24 12:31:09 <lfm> or is mswin in another vm?
1486 2011-05-24 12:31:23 <diki> Windows7->VM->ubuntu
1487 2011-05-24 12:31:36 <BlueMatt> should be ubuntu -> VM -> win7
1488 2011-05-24 12:31:36 <lfm> oh you poor boy
1489 2011-05-24 12:32:05 <sipa> oh ok, so the pool server runs on ubuntu
1490 2011-05-24 12:32:06 <sipa> nvm
1491 2011-05-24 12:32:26 <diki> the problem is that the machine has only 360mb ram left for it
1492 2011-05-24 12:32:33 <diki> and Bitcoind happily takes 70
1493 2011-05-24 12:32:47 <lfm> use swap
1494 2011-05-24 12:32:58 <diki> Swap=load on hdd
1495 2011-05-24 12:33:05 <lfm> ya
1496 2011-05-24 12:33:18 <diki> And windows7 will start writing on hdd if ram usage >=75%
1497 2011-05-24 12:33:20 <BlueMatt> well if you are going to try to run it on linux on a vm on win7 you are going to have to
1498 2011-05-24 12:33:24 <beppu> buy more ram?
1499 2011-05-24 12:33:25 <diki> so both OSes writing in swap=bad idea
1500 2011-05-24 12:33:28 <BlueMatt> why do you have to run win on there?
1501 2011-05-24 12:33:39 <diki> Games, notepad++ everything?
1502 2011-05-24 12:33:50 <BlueMatt> why are you running a pool server on a desktop?
1503 2011-05-24 12:33:51 <sipa> games are a good reason
1504 2011-05-24 12:33:58 <beppu> sad penguin is sad
1505 2011-05-24 12:33:58 <sipa> but indeed
1506 2011-05-24 12:34:09 <diki> BlueMatt: where else?
1507 2011-05-24 12:34:15 <BlueMatt> on a server?
1508 2011-05-24 12:34:21 <diki> Money?
1509 2011-05-24 12:34:25 <diki> I don't have any
1510 2011-05-24 12:34:27 <ersi> Hahah
1511 2011-05-24 12:34:28 <BlueMatt> vps are cheap
1512 2011-05-24 12:34:29 <diki> So, money?
1513 2011-05-24 12:34:37 <beppu> hence bitcoin
1514 2011-05-24 12:34:38 <ersi> Man, you just made me spill some coffee
1515 2011-05-24 12:34:48 <ersi> Now you owe me
1516 2011-05-24 12:34:49 <sipa> what's the audience of your pool server?
1517 2011-05-24 12:34:50 <lfm> sorry
1518 2011-05-24 12:35:03 <ersi> sipa: equally smart people, of course!
1519 2011-05-24 12:35:04 <diki> the audience? i don't remember making a tv show
1520 2011-05-24 12:35:14 <lfm> sipa his audience is people who want to give him btc
1521 2011-05-24 12:35:15 <BlueMatt> who will be using it?
1522 2011-05-24 12:35:21 <ersi> diki: Do you run your miners in the other VMs?
1523 2011-05-24 12:35:30 <sipa> who are your intended users
1524 2011-05-24 12:35:32 <diki> ersi: why would i?
1525 2011-05-24 12:35:37 <ersi> diki: Why wouldn't you?
1526 2011-05-24 12:35:39 <diki> my intended users are everyone, sipa
1527 2011-05-24 12:35:43 <ersi> I mean, you could!
1528 2011-05-24 12:35:47 <BlueMatt> also how are you gaming on a machine with 300m
1529 2011-05-24 12:35:54 <diki> but...even 400 users are too much for the desktop
1530 2011-05-24 12:35:58 <lfm> ersi that wouldnt make much sense tho really
1531 2011-05-24 12:35:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: his VM with the pool server in has 300M
1532 2011-05-24 12:36:01 <ersi> I bet that's just the amount of RAM he dedicated to the virtual machine
1533 2011-05-24 12:36:02 <sipa> not the machine itself
1534 2011-05-24 12:36:08 <BlueMatt> diki: you cant run a server for general people on a desktop, not enough uptime
1535 2011-05-24 12:36:18 <diki> my PC is on 24/7
1536 2011-05-24 12:36:19 dregath has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1537 2011-05-24 12:36:33 <BlueMatt> reboots for updates?
1538 2011-05-24 12:36:36 <diki> unless i reboot, the max uptime i've ever had was months
1539 2011-05-24 12:36:41 <diki> i don't do updates on windows
1540 2011-05-24 12:36:46 <BlueMatt> ...facepalm
1541 2011-05-24 12:36:48 <lfm> diki you said you want to run games on it too? lol
1542 2011-05-24 12:36:54 <ersi> Hahaha
1543 2011-05-24 12:36:56 <diki> for now...
1544 2011-05-24 12:37:07 * BlueMatt facepalm, facepalm, facepalm
1545 2011-05-24 12:37:09 <ersi> Well, you take what you can.. and make the best with it... Or something :D
1546 2011-05-24 12:37:13 <BlueMatt> and you want to run a server on here?
1547 2011-05-24 12:37:24 <lfm> and how much ram is it total?
1548 2011-05-24 12:37:31 <beppu> young skywalker has much to learn
1549 2011-05-24 12:37:32 <diki> my PC has a total of 2GB of ram
1550 2011-05-24 12:37:40 <lfm> sad
1551 2011-05-24 12:37:40 <diki> money didnt allow more back then
1552 2011-05-24 12:37:43 <diki> and still doesnt allow now
1553 2011-05-24 12:37:44 <BlueMatt> can you not afford another 2 for 20 $?
1554 2011-05-24 12:38:00 <diki> cheapest ram is 70BGN
1555 2011-05-24 12:38:01 <lfm> diki and wont allow a decent pool to run
1556 2011-05-24 12:38:19 <BlueMatt> sorry, but give up. you arent gonna be running a pool
1557 2011-05-24 12:38:36 <diki> why? the pool has been compiled and running
1558 2011-05-24 12:38:46 <sipa> that's only one part
1559 2011-05-24 12:38:59 <BlueMatt> on a desktop with no performance running unpatched windows?
1560 2011-05-24 12:39:11 <lfm> go ahead. see how far you get.
1561 2011-05-24 12:39:16 <diki> Almost everyone disables windows updates
1562 2011-05-24 12:39:19 <BlueMatt> no
1563 2011-05-24 12:39:23 <diki> before they send you a WGA or something
1564 2011-05-24 12:39:23 <BlueMatt> no one disabled win updates
1565 2011-05-24 12:39:26 <ersi> I'm laughing my ass off over here
1566 2011-05-24 12:39:30 <BlueMatt> wtf is wrong with you?
1567 2011-05-24 12:39:41 <sipa> easy BlueMatt
1568 2011-05-24 12:39:56 <ersi> Most things apparently
1569 2011-05-24 12:39:58 <sipa> if he likes malware, let him
1570 2011-05-24 12:40:05 <ersi> If he likes downtime, let him
1571 2011-05-24 12:40:07 <diki> And i've been running Windows7 for a year and half with no viruses
1572 2011-05-24 12:40:10 <beppu> he doesn't know...educate
1573 2011-05-24 12:40:11 <BlueMatt> lol
1574 2011-05-24 12:40:17 <lfm> bluematt (perhpas depends if you pay retail price for mswin or bootleg price)
1575 2011-05-24 12:40:18 kers has joined
1576 2011-05-24 12:40:22 <ersi> He's hopeless, not worth educating that
1577 2011-05-24 12:40:26 <BlueMatt> lfm: bootleg price: $0
1578 2011-05-24 12:40:31 <BlueMatt> and you get updates
1579 2011-05-24 12:40:43 <BlueMatt> shitty bootleg price: 50$, and you get no updates
1580 2011-05-24 12:40:43 <ersi> yeah, you get updates with or without license
1581 2011-05-24 12:40:51 <lfm> bluematt i mean if "almost everyone disables updates"
1582 2011-05-24 12:40:52 <diki> All the critical updates i need are installed
1583 2011-05-24 12:41:08 <BlueMatt> whatever, have fun
1584 2011-05-24 12:41:34 <diki> Not to mention the more updates=the bigger my C: drive is
1585 2011-05-24 12:41:36 <vegard> why do you want to run a pool server anyway?
1586 2011-05-24 12:41:39 <diki> And i dont have much space there
1587 2011-05-24 12:41:55 <diki> vegard:Because i want to?
1588 2011-05-24 12:42:01 <lfm> cant afford disk either huh?
1589 2011-05-24 12:42:26 <diki> Lfm, it's a WD Blue 640GB which is actually 596
1590 2011-05-24 12:42:36 <diki> My C: parition was made 50
1591 2011-05-24 12:42:45 <diki> never expected windows folder to grow that much
1592 2011-05-24 12:43:04 cyri_ has left ("Quitte")
1593 2011-05-24 12:43:15 ptte has joined
1594 2011-05-24 12:43:17 <diki> and if i attempt to expand it i can potentially screw up everything
1595 2011-05-24 12:43:28 <lfm> yup
1596 2011-05-24 12:43:49 * BlueMatt facepalm
1597 2011-05-24 12:43:50 <ersi> ypu will
1598 2011-05-24 12:43:58 <lfm> I figure you can potentially screw up everything without attempting to expand
1599 2011-05-24 12:44:01 <ersi> you will screw it all up
1600 2011-05-24 12:44:17 <diki> Just so you know, i handle my OSes well
1601 2011-05-24 12:44:17 <BlueMatt> Ive resized C:'s all the time, never had a problem
1602 2011-05-24 12:44:24 <ersi> Same here
1603 2011-05-24 12:44:45 <diki> The fact i've been running Win7 for more than a year without having any problems...says a lot
1604 2011-05-24 12:44:55 <diki> Patches are not needed lol
1605 2011-05-24 12:45:00 <BlueMatt> Ive been running vms longer than that and no problems
1606 2011-05-24 12:45:04 <vegard> you're a troll lol
1607 2011-05-24 12:45:09 <diki> I am not a troll
1608 2011-05-24 12:45:10 <BlueMatt> vms of win7, xp, etc all running much longer
1609 2011-05-24 12:45:10 <lfm> sez win7 is more robust than xp is what it sez
1610 2011-05-24 12:45:17 <diki> I've been in this channel for quite the time vegard
1611 2011-05-24 12:45:28 <BlueMatt> doesnt mean you wont troll
1612 2011-05-24 12:45:32 <diki> And it is, win7 is way more stable than XP
1613 2011-05-24 12:45:35 <BlueMatt> (which you are)
1614 2011-05-24 12:45:41 <BlueMatt> ok, now thats just trolling
1615 2011-05-24 12:45:44 <ersi> So? You've always asked pretty much trolly questions
1616 2011-05-24 12:45:59 <diki> Example?
1617 2011-05-24 12:46:11 <BlueMatt> diki> And it is, win7 is way more stable than XP
1618 2011-05-24 12:46:15 * luke-jr forces diki to run Win98
1619 2011-05-24 12:46:36 <diki> And i 100% agree to that matt
1620 2011-05-24 12:46:39 <lfm> luke-jr now now dont be cruel
1621 2011-05-24 12:46:43 <BlueMatt> trololololol
1622 2011-05-24 12:46:52 TheKid_ has joined
1623 2011-05-24 12:47:00 <diki> I am not trolling
1624 2011-05-24 12:47:07 <BlueMatt> ok
1625 2011-05-24 12:47:07 <diki> it's a known fact that windows 7 is better than XP
1626 2011-05-24 12:47:11 <BlueMatt> ok
1627 2011-05-24 12:47:11 <luke-jr> lfm: quiet or I'll make YOU use WinME >:D
1628 2011-05-24 12:47:19 <BlueMatt> oh god
1629 2011-05-24 12:47:25 <diki> I have a friend that uses WinME
1630 2011-05-24 12:47:32 <BlueMatt> oh god
1631 2011-05-24 12:47:33 * sipa faints
1632 2011-05-24 12:47:39 <lfm> diki: this bunch thinks anyone who likes microsoft at all is a troll so lets just move on eh?
1633 2011-05-24 12:48:01 <sipa> win7 is comparable or better than XP, i agree, btw
1634 2011-05-24 12:48:02 <diki> But he is very poor and has a ~15 year old thinkpad
1635 2011-05-24 12:48:02 <BlueMatt> I have no problem with m$, but there is a certain amount of common sense...
1636 2011-05-24 12:48:08 <TheKid_> diki: dear god, why
1637 2011-05-24 12:48:18 <ersi> This guy, right there, has no common sense
1638 2011-05-24 12:48:20 <diki> 700mhz processor and only 4mb of dedi vram
1639 2011-05-24 12:48:21 <sipa> vista before the SP's definitely wasn't though
1640 2011-05-24 12:48:24 <luke-jr> diki: I'd use Win 3.11 before WinME
1641 2011-05-24 12:48:33 <BlueMatt> sipa: vista still isnt, really
1642 2011-05-24 12:48:40 <TheKid_> I'd be using archlinux :P
1643 2011-05-24 12:48:40 <BlueMatt> Id prefer dos before me
1644 2011-05-24 12:48:43 <lfm> diki you should be kind to him and reformat his disk with ubuntu
1645 2011-05-24 12:48:44 <TheKid_> or something
1646 2011-05-24 12:48:54 <luke-jr> lfm: LOL fail
1647 2011-05-24 12:48:54 <TheKid_> lfm: ubuntu is way too bloated
1648 2011-05-24 12:49:00 <sipa> BlueMatt: never had any complaints about vista actually (though i only boot it up once every few months to play a game)
1649 2011-05-24 12:49:01 <luke-jr> lfm: Ubuntu is so bloated it could never run on that
1650 2011-05-24 12:49:06 <sipa> but no complaints about stability
1651 2011-05-24 12:49:17 <TheKid_> though on the other hand, thinkpads are built like tanks
1652 2011-05-24 12:49:18 <sipa> (and i only installed it with SP2)
1653 2011-05-24 12:49:19 <lfm> xubuntu?
1654 2011-05-24 12:49:22 <TheKid_> that's why I want them
1655 2011-05-24 12:49:24 <TheKid_> lfm: no
1656 2011-05-24 12:49:29 <BlueMatt> sipa: tell that to my parents...
1657 2011-05-24 12:49:34 <TheKid_> no *buntu will ever be svelte enough
1658 2011-05-24 12:49:41 <BlueMatt> constant problems there
1659 2011-05-24 12:49:47 <lfm> OPenBSD?
1660 2011-05-24 12:49:52 <sipa> depends a lot on how you use it probably
1661 2011-05-24 12:50:01 <sipa> i can only speak from my experience
1662 2011-05-24 12:50:02 <luke-jr> the *nix world has no problem forcing people to get more and more RAM all the time
1663 2011-05-24 12:50:05 <BlueMatt> yea, just gaming and small use, any os is stable
1664 2011-05-24 12:50:11 <BlueMatt> full time...not so much
1665 2011-05-24 12:50:13 <sipa> BlueMatt: WinME wasn't :D
1666 2011-05-24 12:50:18 <luke-jr> I once ran Gentoo on a 233 MHz laptop
1667 2011-05-24 12:50:20 <BlueMatt> lol, ok true
1668 2011-05-24 12:50:44 <diki> And i have an old PC with a Cyrix processor overclocked to 200mhz
1669 2011-05-24 12:50:47 <sipa> and i've had problems with xp as well
1670 2011-05-24 12:50:54 <TheKid_> diki: turbo switch?'
1671 2011-05-24 12:51:00 <diki> jumpers
1672 2011-05-24 12:51:08 <luke-jr> diki: I have a Z80 somewhere around hereâ¦
1673 2011-05-24 12:51:25 <lfm> cp/m?
1674 2011-05-24 12:51:41 <luke-jr> lfm: no, that one went in the trash a while ago
1675 2011-05-24 12:52:01 <luke-jr> the only Z80 still functional (AFAIK) is a GameBoy Colour :p
1676 2011-05-24 12:52:17 <lfm> sad
1677 2011-05-24 12:53:15 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1678 2011-05-24 12:53:48 <barf> i've seen Z80's in 2010-spec coffee machine control systems
1679 2011-05-24 12:54:07 <lfm> overkill
1680 2011-05-24 12:54:11 <luke-jr> my father is always complaining about using Python for home automation though, maybe I should adapt a Z80 emulator to run his old asm versionâ¦
1681 2011-05-24 12:54:19 <barf> in a DIP14 package
1682 2011-05-24 12:55:08 <luke-jr> for his house, anyway
1683 2011-05-24 12:55:50 <lfm> emulator prolly faster than hardware
1684 2011-05-24 12:56:11 <ersi> ;;bc,estimate
1685 2011-05-24 12:56:12 <gribble> 397842.86401887
1686 2011-05-24 12:56:17 <ersi> ;;bc,help
1687 2011-05-24 12:56:17 <gribble> Alias bc,24hprc, Alias bc,avgprc, Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btceur, Alias bc,btcex, Alias bc,btcgbp, Alias bc,btcguild, Alias bc,btcrub, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,deepbit, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,eligius, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,fx, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,googlerate, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, Alias bc,interval, Alias (1 more message)
1688 2011-05-24 12:56:29 <ersi> ;;bc,diff
1689 2011-05-24 12:56:29 <gribble> 244139.48158254
1690 2011-05-24 12:56:30 <luke-jr> lfm: no doubt
1691 2011-05-24 12:57:15 <TheKid_> for headers only mode- as transactions in the block increase, does what you need to download overall increase or decrease?
1692 2011-05-24 12:57:21 <ersi> ;;bc,estimate
1693 2011-05-24 12:57:21 <gribble> 397842.86401887
1694 2011-05-24 12:57:34 <TheKid_> meaning, in headers only mode are you mostly keeping transaction hashes or the other part of the block?
1695 2011-05-24 12:57:37 <ersi> ;;bc,stats
1696 2011-05-24 12:57:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126308 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 699 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 397842.86401887
1697 2011-05-24 12:57:47 <sipa> TheKid_: only block headers must be kept
1698 2011-05-24 12:57:55 <TheKid_> sipa: no transactions at all
1699 2011-05-24 12:57:55 <TheKid_> ?
1700 2011-05-24 12:58:04 <sipa> stored? no
1701 2011-05-24 12:58:06 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1702 2011-05-24 12:58:11 <sipa> downloaded... probably
1703 2011-05-24 12:58:14 <TheKid_> right, that's what I mean
1704 2011-05-24 12:58:24 <sipa> or you need some filtering
1705 2011-05-24 12:59:33 <TheKid_> sipa: the post on the forums re: trimming the blockchain ~70%, is that headers only mode or just pruning spent tx?
1706 2011-05-24 13:00:12 <sipa> that's pruning
1707 2011-05-24 13:01:27 sethsethseth____ has joined
1708 2011-05-24 13:02:09 kensai has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1709 2011-05-24 13:03:10 <TheKid_> sipa: okay, thanks
1710 2011-05-24 13:05:20 <[Tycho]> They need bitcoins now ! :) http://drugoi.livejournal.com/3559698.html
1711 2011-05-24 13:06:34 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1712 2011-05-24 13:06:46 <TheKid_> [Tycho]: for those that don't speak russian, what's that image?
1713 2011-05-24 13:06:52 <TheKid_> poor shopkeeper?
1714 2011-05-24 13:07:01 sethsethseth____ has joined
1715 2011-05-24 13:08:24 <[Tycho]> TheKid_, belarussian currency is failing, people are buying everything they can.
1716 2011-05-24 13:11:14 TheKid_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1717 2011-05-24 13:12:08 <mtrlt> i need bitcoins too, euro is failing :p
1718 2011-05-24 13:12:40 <[Tycho]> I don't think that euro is failing like THAT :)
1719 2011-05-24 13:12:50 <BlueMatt> can someone testnet -addnode=87.155.84.192
1720 2011-05-24 13:13:59 <lfm> done
1721 2011-05-24 13:14:04 <mtrlt> [Tycho]: true :P
1722 2011-05-24 13:14:10 <BlueMatt> thanks, finally getting blocks
1723 2011-05-24 13:14:12 <mtrlt> not yet ;)
1724 2011-05-24 13:14:46 <lfm> bluematt "blocks" : 19945,
1725 2011-05-24 13:15:04 <lfm> 19946
1726 2011-05-24 13:15:18 <BlueMatt> lfm: yep, got it...........now
1727 2011-05-24 13:15:19 <BlueMatt> also, if you want to send of 1000 .01 testnet txes, it would be useful: miezGSDxLADyRgDjBU6uNr5aN9NAysRXAA
1728 2011-05-24 13:15:36 ezl has joined
1729 2011-05-24 13:17:15 <lfm> bluematt in progress
1730 2011-05-24 13:17:26 <BlueMatt> wow...thanks
1731 2011-05-24 13:17:38 <BlueMatt> hot damn, 500+ txes...
1732 2011-05-24 13:17:52 <BlueMatt> zomg
1733 2011-05-24 13:17:59 <lfm> done
1734 2011-05-24 13:18:00 Incitatus has joined
1735 2011-05-24 13:18:08 <BlueMatt> 829 txes...there we go
1736 2011-05-24 13:18:16 <BlueMatt> thanks
1737 2011-05-24 13:18:34 lulzplzk1hx has joined
1738 2011-05-24 13:19:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: I see what you mean...
1739 2011-05-24 13:19:09 <BlueMatt> also, original bug fixed
1740 2011-05-24 13:21:44 lulzplzkthx has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1741 2011-05-24 13:22:18 gdoteof has left ()
1742 2011-05-24 13:23:03 <lfm> lol testnet someone paid a fee of 1000 test BTC on a txn! lol
1743 2011-05-24 13:23:12 pirrr has joined
1744 2011-05-24 13:23:30 <BlueMatt> lol testnet, you so crazy
1745 2011-05-24 13:23:52 <BlueMatt> btw, testnet faucet is getting low, send that fee over that way
1746 2011-05-24 13:24:41 <lfm> bluematt you want crazy, those 1000 0.01 I sent you, I think they all sent from different 50 btc coinbase blocks! grin
1747 2011-05-24 13:25:11 <BlueMatt> lol, how much testnet mining do you do?
1748 2011-05-24 13:25:18 <diki> what is the address of testnet faucet?
1749 2011-05-24 13:25:20 <lfm> "balance" : 117372.37837000,
1750 2011-05-24 13:25:24 <BlueMatt> my god
1751 2011-05-24 13:25:32 <BlueMatt> miGuMc6qtVEKS6Pf1jKddaa81DeHjMzkpB <- faucet
1752 2011-05-24 13:26:39 chaynlynk has joined
1753 2011-05-24 13:28:11 <lfm> bluemattya, just send those testcoins to the test faucet when you dont want them any more, no need to send them back to me of course
1754 2011-05-24 13:28:25 <BlueMatt> will do
1755 2011-05-24 13:28:28 <BlueMatt> thanks
1756 2011-05-24 13:29:38 <diki> lol bluemattya...that is hilarious
1757 2011-05-24 13:29:41 <lfm> diki or https://testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com/
1758 2011-05-24 13:30:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: hm, I cant confirm that it is any slower at scrolling/switching tabs than wx2.9
1759 2011-05-24 13:30:17 kluge has joined
1760 2011-05-24 13:30:26 TheKid_ has joined
1761 2011-05-24 13:30:45 <diki> me sent to testnet
1762 2011-05-24 13:30:45 <BlueMatt> (also, im getting assert failures on wx2.9 when scrolling around with this crazy number of txes
1763 2011-05-24 13:30:57 <TheKid_> can miners use a trimmed blockchain?
1764 2011-05-24 13:31:02 <BlueMatt> yes
1765 2011-05-24 13:31:12 <TheKid_> okay
1766 2011-05-24 13:31:21 <BlueMatt> miners can use trimmed chain, regular users can work with no chain
1767 2011-05-24 13:31:24 <sipa> pruning could just be implemented, it's just throwing away data that's guaranteed not to be used anymore
1768 2011-05-24 13:31:24 <BlueMatt> (only the top of it)
1769 2011-05-24 13:31:41 jivvz has joined
1770 2011-05-24 13:32:21 <BlueMatt> sipa: in fact, for me its much slower at scrolling/switching tabs on wx2.9 than on 2.8
1771 2011-05-24 13:32:34 <BlueMatt> lags all over the place
1772 2011-05-24 13:32:43 <TheKid_> why would you want to use wx2.8?
1773 2011-05-24 13:32:48 <lfm> sipa: the only problem is new nodes while downloading the block chain try to get everything to confirm
1774 2011-05-24 13:32:54 <BlueMatt> because 2.9 is a developer release
1775 2011-05-24 13:32:54 <diki> Can you guys optimize bitcoin's memory usage?
1776 2011-05-24 13:33:03 <TheKid_> BlueMatt: ah
1777 2011-05-24 13:33:18 <BlueMatt> hence, packaging bitcoin requires 2.8
1778 2011-05-24 13:33:28 <ersi> diki: Only if you stop being a fool and running Bitcoind in a super small Virtual Machine
1779 2011-05-24 13:33:43 <sipa> BlueMatt: here 2.8 is a factor 100 slower than 2.9 or so
1780 2011-05-24 13:33:45 <diki> ersi: I do what i want ;)
1781 2011-05-24 13:33:57 <BlueMatt> sipa: wow, more specific environment details?
1782 2011-05-24 13:34:04 <ersi> But no one is going to optimize bitcoins memory usage until you quit doing that
1783 2011-05-24 13:34:14 <sipa> BlueMatt: it really takes a substantial time to redraw after each scroll, like 0.2s or so
1784 2011-05-24 13:34:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: hm, that happens for me too, but much worse on 2.9
1785 2011-05-24 13:34:57 <sipa> BlueMatt: ubuntu 10.10 amd64
1786 2011-05-24 13:35:07 <diki> ersi: i am not asking only because of that. It's taking equal amounts on windows too
1787 2011-05-24 13:35:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: how many txes?
1788 2011-05-24 13:35:27 <sipa> 137
1789 2011-05-24 13:35:31 <eternal1> hi, can i use the same client on the testnetwork and on the normal ? can this erase my bitcoins ?
1790 2011-05-24 13:35:49 <TheKid_> eternal1: backup your wallet securely
1791 2011-05-24 13:35:56 <sipa> eternal1: yes, no, and indeed make backups
1792 2011-05-24 13:36:01 <lfm> eternal1: it should be safe just add -testnet to the command line
1793 2011-05-24 13:36:02 <eternal1> ok, thanks
1794 2011-05-24 13:36:38 chaynlynk has left ()
1795 2011-05-24 13:36:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: i'll update once again
1796 2011-05-24 13:36:57 <BlueMatt> sipa: might I send you this huge wallet and see what happens for you?
1797 2011-05-24 13:37:00 <diki> ;;bc,blocks
1798 2011-05-24 13:37:00 <gribble> 126315
1799 2011-05-24 13:37:42 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
1800 2011-05-24 13:37:43 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.2,"low":6.95,"vol":14751,"buy":7.0966,"sell":7.1,"last":7.0966}}
1801 2011-05-24 13:37:50 <diki> Most modern games use a few gigs of memory. Bitcoins is nota a game, but it's not far behind
1802 2011-05-24 13:38:00 <diki> *not
1803 2011-05-24 13:38:53 <sipa> diki: bitcoin takes 249M on my VPS
1804 2011-05-24 13:38:54 <TheKid_> how big is the blockchain, ~250 megs at the moment?
1805 2011-05-24 13:39:05 <TheKid_> er
1806 2011-05-24 13:39:08 <TheKid_> yeah I said that right
1807 2011-05-24 13:39:21 <TheKid_> also bitcoin only uses ~50 megs ram on my laptop
1808 2011-05-24 13:39:21 <diki> sipa: whaaat?
1809 2011-05-24 13:39:41 <sipa> TheKid_: the block chain itself is 183M
1810 2011-05-24 13:39:41 <diki> what the hell do you have running on that VPS?
1811 2011-05-24 13:39:44 <lfm> diki my bitcoin is running aroun 45mb. You think thats gigs?
1812 2011-05-24 13:39:49 <sipa> diki: because i run bitcoin.sipa.be
1813 2011-05-24 13:39:57 d1g1t4l has joined
1814 2011-05-24 13:40:04 <diki> oh
1815 2011-05-24 13:40:38 <diki> lfm: It may not be, but as i said It's not far behind
1816 2011-05-24 13:40:55 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1817 2011-05-24 13:41:08 <lfm> you think 45 mb is not far behind gigs? thats warped man
1818 2011-05-24 13:41:23 <diki> Sipa's bitcoin instance is proof of that
1819 2011-05-24 13:41:42 <lfm> disk space isnt ram space
1820 2011-05-24 13:41:48 molecular has joined
1821 2011-05-24 13:41:53 <diki> i thought he said ram usage
1822 2011-05-24 13:42:02 <kreal-> anyone tryed compiling bitcoind on a qnap TS-559
1823 2011-05-24 13:42:04 <sipa> i'm talking about RAM
1824 2011-05-24 13:42:11 <diki> lfm: see?
1825 2011-05-24 13:42:25 <diki> lfm: now kindly take those words back ;)
1826 2011-05-24 13:42:42 <lfm> sipa how you measuing it?
1827 2011-05-24 13:42:45 RBecker has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1828 2011-05-24 13:42:47 <sipa> lfm: top
1829 2011-05-24 13:43:00 <sipa> resident memory size
1830 2011-05-24 13:43:44 <TheKid_> someone want to give me a thumbs up/ thumbs down on this: . "This is data from transactions that are already spent, and so it is never referenced unless you wanted to trace a coin?s history (whereas you only need the most recent tx those coins were involved in to confirm that a transaction is valid while mining). "
1831 2011-05-24 13:43:51 <TheKid_> in re: trimmed data from the blockchain
1832 2011-05-24 13:44:03 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1833 2011-05-24 13:44:08 <diki> by the time 21 mill are mined, how much space would bitcoin take? Disk space...
1834 2011-05-24 13:44:18 <Diablo-D3> in 2140?
1835 2011-05-24 13:44:26 <Diablo-D3> probably a whole TB
1836 2011-05-24 13:44:31 <lfm> ooos sorry diki, I misread my own data, it is 725mb, you right it is getting close to 1gig
1837 2011-05-24 13:44:53 <diki> and what are you running lfm?
1838 2011-05-24 13:44:54 <sipa> TheKid_: it's correct, except that coins and transactions are actually the same thing
1839 2011-05-24 13:45:04 <lfm> ubuntu
1840 2011-05-24 13:45:05 <sipa> TheKid_: coins are defined as unredeemed transaction outputs
1841 2011-05-24 13:45:11 wood_ has quit (Quit: Leave me alone. kthx)
1842 2011-05-24 13:45:18 <diki> what is making your bitcoin instance use that much ram?
1843 2011-05-24 13:45:21 <sipa> so each transactions just consumes some coins, and produces new ones
1844 2011-05-24 13:45:55 RBecker has joined
1845 2011-05-24 13:45:55 wood_ has joined
1846 2011-05-24 13:47:01 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1847 2011-05-24 13:50:35 <lfm> diki the 725mb is virtual size, resident in ram is 513mb
1848 2011-05-24 13:51:06 TheKid_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1849 2011-05-24 13:52:31 kensai has joined
1850 2011-05-24 13:53:37 TheKid_ has joined
1851 2011-05-24 13:55:46 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
1852 2011-05-24 13:55:47 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.2,"low":6.95,"vol":14627,"buy":7.12,"sell":7.13,"last":7.12}}
1853 2011-05-24 13:56:00 asyn_ has joined
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1855 2011-05-24 13:56:18 johnlockwood has joined
1856 2011-05-24 13:58:20 <BlueMatt> can anyone confirm the bug sipa was saying, where wx2.8 is much slower than 2.9?
1857 2011-05-24 13:58:27 TheKid_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1858 2011-05-24 13:58:42 <edcba> has someone asked mirc's khaled about bitcoin payments ?
1859 2011-05-24 13:59:02 <BlueMatt> who the hell is that and why?
1860 2011-05-24 13:59:48 <Namegduf> IRC client author, "why" still stands.
1861 2011-05-24 13:59:59 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1862 2011-05-24 14:01:04 <ersi> edcba: And who the hell would pay for that piece of shit
1863 2011-05-24 14:01:18 glassresistor has joined
1864 2011-05-24 14:01:18 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
1865 2011-05-24 14:01:18 glassresistor has joined
1866 2011-05-24 14:01:37 <edcba> ersi: me ?
1867 2011-05-24 14:01:43 <edcba> a lot of ppl
1868 2011-05-24 14:01:54 <ersi> x_ X
1869 2011-05-24 14:02:07 devrandom1 has joined
1870 2011-05-24 14:02:52 <edcba> it would give a new visibility for bitcoin
1871 2011-05-24 14:03:03 <edcba> ie gamers etc
1872 2011-05-24 14:04:29 asyn_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1873 2011-05-24 14:06:38 asyn_ has joined
1874 2011-05-24 14:11:24 d1g1t4l has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1875 2011-05-24 14:12:18 mmoya has joined
1876 2011-05-24 14:12:40 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1880 2011-05-24 14:29:28 <Diablo-D3> http://naurunappula.com/385851/tuuletin.jpg
1881 2011-05-24 14:29:31 <Diablo-D3> ULTIMATE MINER BOX
1882 2011-05-24 14:29:33 <Diablo-D3> RIGHT THERE
1883 2011-05-24 14:30:41 <Namegduf> White on black?
1884 2011-05-24 14:30:42 <Namegduf> Eeeew
1885 2011-05-24 14:30:55 <Namegduf> Beige parts in a black case
1886 2011-05-24 14:30:56 <Namegduf> No want
1887 2011-05-24 14:32:07 pnicholson has joined
1888 2011-05-24 14:32:25 DukeOfURL has joined
1889 2011-05-24 14:33:26 <DD-> ya
1890 2011-05-24 14:33:27 <DD-> http://casemod2011.coolermaster.com/profile.php?u=37&c=2
1891 2011-05-24 14:33:35 <DD-> thats a better one :p
1892 2011-05-24 14:34:07 Klash_ has joined
1893 2011-05-24 14:34:23 <BlueMatt> yea, that one is insane
1894 2011-05-24 14:34:27 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,diff
1895 2011-05-24 14:34:28 <gribble> 244139.48158254
1896 2011-05-24 14:34:29 <diki> how much traffic does a pool make
1897 2011-05-24 14:34:40 <jrmithdobbs> err which one is the estimated diff
1898 2011-05-24 14:35:00 <sipa> ;;bc,estimate
1899 2011-05-24 14:35:00 <gribble> 398954.27790570
1900 2011-05-24 14:35:01 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1904 2011-05-24 14:38:45 devrandom_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1905 2011-05-24 14:39:05 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1906 2011-05-24 14:41:04 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1907 2011-05-24 14:45:36 <Diablo-D3> DD-: thats just as bad!
1908 2011-05-24 14:45:56 trekdanne has joined
1909 2011-05-24 14:46:03 Astrohacker has joined
1910 2011-05-24 14:46:32 <DD-> no it aint :p
1911 2011-05-24 14:47:10 <diki> Diablo-D3 == DD-
1912 2011-05-24 14:47:46 <Diablo-D3> diki: ?
1913 2011-05-24 14:48:06 <diki> I am saying it's obvious youare DD-
1914 2011-05-24 14:48:07 * Namegduf likes his black tower with a door, no interior exposed
1915 2011-05-24 14:48:24 <DD-> ya obvious
1916 2011-05-24 14:48:59 TheKid_ has joined
1917 2011-05-24 14:49:01 <TheKid_> when trimming the blockchain, will the blockindex file shrink as well?
1918 2011-05-24 14:50:32 <Diablo-D3> diki: there is only me
1919 2011-05-24 14:50:38 asyn_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1920 2011-05-24 14:51:56 <diki> what is this blockchain trimmer?
1921 2011-05-24 14:52:05 devrandom_ has joined
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1923 2011-05-24 14:54:03 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
1924 2011-05-24 14:54:10 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
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1927 2011-05-24 14:56:04 TheKid_ has joined
1928 2011-05-24 14:56:12 <TheKid_> stupid shoddy internet
1929 2011-05-24 14:56:18 marlowe has quit (Quit: leaving)
1930 2011-05-24 14:56:24 <TheKid_> did anyone reply to my question about trimmed blockchain and blkindex.dat?
1931 2011-05-24 14:57:41 <sipa> 15:38:13 < sipa> TheKid_: it's correct, except that coins and transactions are actually the same thing
1932 2011-05-24 14:57:45 <sipa> 15:38:24 < sipa> TheKid_: coins are defined as unredeemed transaction outputs
1933 2011-05-24 14:57:48 <sipa> 15:38:40 < sipa> so each transactions just consumes some coins, and produces new ones
1934 2011-05-24 14:57:56 kisom_dev has joined
1935 2011-05-24 14:57:58 <TheKid_> sipa: no, that
1936 2011-05-24 14:58:02 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: am I reading this code right, if i just turn target.rewrite to false it'll make connecting clients filter out not-passing results, right?
1937 2011-05-24 14:58:05 devrandom_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1938 2011-05-24 14:58:05 <TheKid_> is different (though it was useful)
1939 2011-05-24 14:58:07 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: in pushpool
1940 2011-05-24 14:58:29 <sipa> TheKid_: oh, missed your later remark
1941 2011-05-24 14:58:32 <TheKid_> I'm wondering about if you trim data from the blockchain, can you also trim data from the blockindex?
1942 2011-05-24 14:58:52 devrandom_ has joined
1943 2011-05-24 14:59:00 <sipa> i suppose
1944 2011-05-24 14:59:15 sabalaba has joined
1945 2011-05-24 14:59:25 <TheKid_> alright, I'll be ambiguous
1946 2011-05-24 14:59:34 <TheKid_> and what is the current blockchain size? ~180 megs?
1947 2011-05-24 14:59:38 <sipa> yes
1948 2011-05-24 15:00:06 <TheKid_> okay
1949 2011-05-24 15:00:10 <TheKid_> thanks much sipa :)
1950 2011-05-24 15:01:29 psymin has joined
1951 2011-05-24 15:01:52 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1952 2011-05-24 15:03:03 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: correct
1953 2011-05-24 15:03:23 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: only full-target solutions will be submitted to pushpool... though also, that means fewer statistics for you
1954 2011-05-24 15:03:25 d1g1t4l has joined
1955 2011-05-24 15:03:35 DD- has quit ()
1956 2011-05-24 15:04:57 TheKid_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1957 2011-05-24 15:05:05 Astriks has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1958 2011-05-24 15:05:18 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: have you gotten a chance to test wx2.8 backport?
1959 2011-05-24 15:05:48 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: d/c about stats so long i see long polling working that's exactly what i want. ;P
1960 2011-05-24 15:06:52 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
1961 2011-05-24 15:06:58 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.2,"low":6.96,"vol":14637,"buy":7.05,"sell":7.1,"last":7.05}}
1962 2011-05-24 15:07:09 djbev has joined
1963 2011-05-24 15:07:09 Sage has joined
1964 2011-05-24 15:07:13 <Sage> hey
1965 2011-05-24 15:07:20 <Sage> does anyone remember me from yesterday?
1966 2011-05-24 15:07:32 <djbev> I have a newbie question
1967 2011-05-24 15:08:01 <Sage> shoot
1968 2011-05-24 15:08:03 <djbev> I did my first transfer to my client.
1969 2011-05-24 15:08:10 <djbev> I'm using the Mac OSX client
1970 2011-05-24 15:08:19 <djbev> where are the file for my bitcoins actually located?
1971 2011-05-24 15:08:24 <djbev> I want to copy them to my dropbox
1972 2011-05-24 15:08:41 <Sage> im pretty sure its mentioned somewhere in the wiki
1973 2011-05-24 15:08:45 <Diablo-D3> you only need to copy wallet.dat (while the client is off)
1974 2011-05-24 15:08:52 <Diablo-D3> I forget where it is, but its in your home dir
1975 2011-05-24 15:09:28 <djbev> And does that copy all my coins at once? Can I leave the copy in my home dir as well?
1976 2011-05-24 15:10:02 <djbev> I was trying to find the client documentation that explained that - but could not locate any good docs.
1977 2011-05-24 15:10:15 <Diablo-D3> it copies all current and future coins
1978 2011-05-24 15:10:20 <djbev> Thanks Diablo / sage
1979 2011-05-24 15:10:56 <djbev> Future coins as well?? so I don't need to keep copying it to dropbox when I get new coins?
1980 2011-05-24 15:11:10 <Diablo-D3> it keeps a list of 100 future addresses used for temporary use
1981 2011-05-24 15:11:35 <djbev> ok, so every 100 transacitons I should recopy...
1982 2011-05-24 15:11:36 <Diablo-D3> only really need to copy wallet.dat every 50 tx
1983 2011-05-24 15:11:44 <Diablo-D3> nope, 50
1984 2011-05-24 15:11:45 <djbev> got it.
1985 2011-05-24 15:11:48 <Diablo-D3> there are instances where it uses 2
1986 2011-05-24 15:11:58 <djbev> ok
1987 2011-05-24 15:12:21 <Sage> may i ask some newbie questions too? :)
1988 2011-05-24 15:12:58 <djbev> lol - of course
1989 2011-05-24 15:13:35 sta-hi has joined
1990 2011-05-24 15:13:38 <Sage> yesterday i set my 6990 to 830 core 400 mem, it worked for 40 minutes no problem, temp around 69. today when i set the same values i got bsod
1991 2011-05-24 15:13:50 <Sage> or the pc just freezes
1992 2011-05-24 15:14:05 <diki> could be the low mem
1993 2011-05-24 15:14:05 <Diablo-D3> then dont overclock it so high.
1994 2011-05-24 15:14:09 <diki> some cards dont like low mem
1995 2011-05-24 15:14:18 <diki> what kind of freeze?
1996 2011-05-24 15:14:43 <Sage> 830 core was manufactured
1997 2011-05-24 15:14:59 <diki> <diki> what kind of freeze?
1998 2011-05-24 15:15:01 <Diablo-D3> heh
1999 2011-05-24 15:15:02 <Sage> at first just the moving parts get distorted, then the whole screen freezes
2000 2011-05-24 15:15:08 <Diablo-D3> dont underclock then
2001 2011-05-24 15:15:14 <Sage> keyboard wont respond on caps
2002 2011-05-24 15:15:26 <diki> go stock
2003 2011-05-24 15:15:26 <Sage> but it worked just fine yesterday
2004 2011-05-24 15:15:32 <Sage> and im trying to keep the temp as low as possible
2005 2011-05-24 15:15:33 <djbev> also my client is showing 16 confirmations... and that number is going up.... I transferred in 100 bitcoins... does that mean that it will eventually go to 100?
2006 2011-05-24 15:15:43 <Diablo-D3> Sage: the temp needs to be below 85c, thats it
2007 2011-05-24 15:15:50 <diki> it will incr forever
2008 2011-05-24 15:15:52 <Sage> no djbev, it will go much higher
2009 2011-05-24 15:15:58 <djbev> Koolance.com - liquide cooling solutions for GPU
2010 2011-05-24 15:16:08 <BlueMatt> I prefer <70c
2011 2011-05-24 15:16:10 <Diablo-D3> djbev: kind of pointless
2012 2011-05-24 15:16:12 <Sage> i dont have money for better cooling
2013 2011-05-24 15:16:17 <BlueMatt> (for long term 24/7)
2014 2011-05-24 15:16:22 <Diablo-D3> Sage: then dont mine.
2015 2011-05-24 15:16:32 <Sage> diablo-d3 i just bought the damn card :D
2016 2011-05-24 15:16:34 <djbev> what is pointless?
2017 2011-05-24 15:16:36 nuke- has joined
2018 2011-05-24 15:16:37 gwelymernan has joined
2019 2011-05-24 15:16:47 nu- has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2020 2011-05-24 15:16:48 <Diablo-D3> djbev: water cooling
2021 2011-05-24 15:16:53 <Diablo-D3> it just adds to the cost of mining
2022 2011-05-24 15:17:03 <diki> +1
2023 2011-05-24 15:17:05 <djbev> why? It helps with stability for long runs....
2024 2011-05-24 15:17:06 <Sage> i only bought 23cm fan for indoor cooing
2025 2011-05-24 15:17:09 <Diablo-D3> Sage: yes, and you should have considered the fact 6990s exceed 375 watts when fully loaded
2026 2011-05-24 15:17:15 <Sage> you know the kind you have on table
2027 2011-05-24 15:17:34 <Diablo-D3> Sage: that heat has to go somewhere.
2028 2011-05-24 15:18:03 <Namegduf> Sage: Sounds like you should downclock.
2029 2011-05-24 15:18:06 <djbev> liquid cooling will keep the GPU cool, transfer the heat to an external radiator
2030 2011-05-24 15:18:06 <Sage> i know, the case is fully open, i have 120mm fan on first core directly and 230mm indoor fan blowing the air away from it
2031 2011-05-24 15:18:18 <Namegduf> Ghetto
2032 2011-05-24 15:18:35 <Diablo-D3> Sage: and what does the card say it's temp is?
2033 2011-05-24 15:18:37 <Sage> right now both cores are at 97-98% usage and 69°C
2034 2011-05-24 15:18:43 <Diablo-D3> hrm thats not so bad
2035 2011-05-24 15:18:54 <Diablo-D3> and btw, you want gpu clock/3 not /2
2036 2011-05-24 15:19:15 <Sage> huh?
2037 2011-05-24 15:19:18 Ramen has joined
2038 2011-05-24 15:19:24 Clarence has joined
2039 2011-05-24 15:19:27 <jrmithdobbs> djbev: pfft, air cooling is more than sufficient if you do it right
2040 2011-05-24 15:19:32 <Diablo-D3> [11:06:57] <Sage> yesterday i set my 6990 to 830 core 400 mem
2041 2011-05-24 15:19:40 <Sage> the 830 value is manufacture preset
2042 2011-05-24 15:19:53 <Diablo-D3> 400 is not 830/3
2043 2011-05-24 15:19:58 <Sage> oh
2044 2011-05-24 15:20:28 <Sage> someone here said yesterday it craches under 400
2045 2011-05-24 15:20:35 <Diablo-D3> its possible
2046 2011-05-24 15:20:41 <djbev> Sage: the wallet.dat file does not seem to exist on my Mac... are you sure that is the name?
2047 2011-05-24 15:20:48 <Diablo-D3> underlocking ram only buys you about 10% on your power/thermal budget anyhow
2048 2011-05-24 15:20:55 <Sage> and today it kept crashing on every other set
2049 2011-05-24 15:21:01 <Diablo-D3> djbev: I said that, and yes it is
2050 2011-05-24 15:21:05 <Namegduf> Sage: If it's unstbale just go closer to normal
2051 2011-05-24 15:21:07 <Sage> djbev wait let m e try googling it
2052 2011-05-24 15:21:16 <Diablo-D3> cd ~; find | grep wallet.dat
2053 2011-05-24 15:21:30 <Sage> namegduf im total noob when it comes to playing with hardware :(
2054 2011-05-24 15:21:45 <Namegduf> Sage: Then stop screwing with clock speeds before you damage something
2055 2011-05-24 15:22:00 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2056 2011-05-24 15:22:02 <Namegduf> When it stops working, you step whatever you're doing down a notch.
2057 2011-05-24 15:22:13 <Namegduf> Yes, you can't get as many lolhash/s
2058 2011-05-24 15:22:19 <Sage> namegduf i only wanted to downclock the memory, i didnt play around with core
2059 2011-05-24 15:22:27 <Diablo-D3> he cant damage anything underclocking ram
2060 2011-05-24 15:22:29 <Diablo-D3> just cause it to lock up
2061 2011-05-24 15:22:31 <Namegduf> Sage: Then un-downclock it
2062 2011-05-24 15:22:41 <Diablo-D3> quite entirely possible it wont go below half stock ram
2063 2011-05-24 15:22:43 <Sage> its on preset atm
2064 2011-05-24 15:22:44 kluge has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2065 2011-05-24 15:23:10 <Namegduf> The process for tweaking stuff is something like:
2066 2011-05-24 15:23:17 <Diablo-D3> step 1) dont do it
2067 2011-05-24 15:23:19 <Sage> gpu 70°C after 15 minutes
2068 2011-05-24 15:23:20 <Diablo-D3> step 2) ????
2069 2011-05-24 15:23:25 <Diablo-D3> step 3) profit
2070 2011-05-24 15:23:26 <Namegduf> Try change. If it works, try bigger change. If it doesn't work, go back to the previous settings.
2071 2011-05-24 15:23:52 <Diablo-D3> and now, for the real kicker
2072 2011-05-24 15:23:59 <Diablo-D3> my 5850 has 305 ram
2073 2011-05-24 15:24:00 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2074 2011-05-24 15:24:02 <Diablo-D3> om nom nom
2075 2011-05-24 15:24:34 Zape_ has joined
2076 2011-05-24 15:24:44 <Sage> it seems the outer fan helped a lot actually
2077 2011-05-24 15:24:44 <djbev> diablo - are those command for OS/X or Linux?
2078 2011-05-24 15:24:59 <djbev> I get an error with those on my mac
2079 2011-05-24 15:25:06 gjs278 has joined
2080 2011-05-24 15:25:22 <Ramen> I bought a 5770 yesterday to screw around lol ... any advice?
2081 2011-05-24 15:25:57 <diki> mine?
2082 2011-05-24 15:26:02 <Ramen> yup
2083 2011-05-24 15:26:03 <diki> 180 mhash is somewhat feasable
2084 2011-05-24 15:26:51 <Ramen> is there any tweeking you would suggest?
2085 2011-05-24 15:27:07 <Zape_> Anyone hear about the new ATI (AMD) cards anounced today? Cayman based Firepro V5900 and V7900. Specially designed to fit into a single slot.
2086 2011-05-24 15:28:04 <diki> yeah
2087 2011-05-24 15:28:56 <diki> but those are cards for design studios
2088 2011-05-24 15:29:02 <diki> not for mainstream nor mining
2089 2011-05-24 15:29:11 Astrohacker has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2090 2011-05-24 15:29:17 <Zape_> Think it is intended to combine with ASUS' new 8 slot barebones.
2091 2011-05-24 15:29:31 <djbev> wallet.dat is: Linux/unix: ~/.bitcoin/wallet.dat Windows: %APPDATA%\Bitcoin\wallet.dat (I think; I don't run Windows) Mac: ~/Library/Application Support/Bitcoin/wallet.dat
2092 2011-05-24 15:29:33 <luke-jr> diki: fail
2093 2011-05-24 15:29:41 <djbev> found that on the forums
2094 2011-05-24 15:29:48 <diki> prove it luke
2095 2011-05-24 15:29:55 <luke-jr> "Also, the AMD FirePro V7900 is backed by 2GB of ultra-fast GDDR5 memory and 1280 stream processors."
2096 2011-05-24 15:30:35 kluge has joined
2097 2011-05-24 15:30:49 <Zape_> Chewing only 150 watts at the same time, should make that a workhorse.
2098 2011-05-24 15:31:10 <diki> my 5850 has 1440
2099 2011-05-24 15:31:35 <uppe> of course it depends on how much punch is packed in those processors
2100 2011-05-24 15:32:10 <diki> Read on the amd site
2101 2011-05-24 15:32:14 <diki> They are for studios
2102 2011-05-24 15:32:26 <sipa> and why does that matter?
2103 2011-05-24 15:32:40 <uppe> they're probably more expensive than gaming cards
2104 2011-05-24 15:32:41 <diki> point is they will probably mine slower than 5850
2105 2011-05-24 15:33:02 <sipa> probably, yes
2106 2011-05-24 15:33:06 <diki> unless there is something else that makes them tick faster
2107 2011-05-24 15:33:07 <sipa> but only slightly
2108 2011-05-24 15:33:18 _polo_ has joined
2109 2011-05-24 15:33:21 <diki> Thus, not for mining
2110 2011-05-24 15:33:42 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2111 2011-05-24 15:33:45 <luke-jr> diki: your 5850 takes 2 slots
2112 2011-05-24 15:34:24 <Zape_> Nah, they probably will be slower and more costly, not a good fit for a casual miner. But at $1000 apiece and given the ability to run 8 of them in a 2U Rackmounted box will make them a goto solution for someone trying to put together a mining tower.
2113 2011-05-24 15:34:41 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - there?
2114 2011-05-24 15:34:46 <luke-jr> two V7900 will probably get 560 MH
2115 2011-05-24 15:34:50 <diki> luke it doesnt]
2116 2011-05-24 15:35:14 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: yo
2117 2011-05-24 15:35:26 <sipa> 5850 is a dual-slot card
2118 2011-05-24 15:35:27 <devrandom_> how's it going?
2119 2011-05-24 15:35:39 <_polo_> hello. hey, can someone explain me how a bitcoin user do the bootstrap to join the p2p network. bittorrent has the trackers as a broker, also other p2p softwares has ways to join the network. how bitcoi find it?
2120 2011-05-24 15:35:42 <BlueMatt> pretty good, how you doing?
2121 2011-05-24 15:35:55 <diki> erm no
2122 2011-05-24 15:35:56 <diki> it's not
2123 2011-05-24 15:36:00 <diki> It's single slot
2124 2011-05-24 15:36:04 <BlueMatt> _polo_: nodes join an irc chan
2125 2011-05-24 15:36:06 <diki> at least on my mobo design
2126 2011-05-24 15:36:14 <diki> Thus not a valid argument
2127 2011-05-24 15:36:27 <BlueMatt> and/or lookup a dns name and/or static hard-coded nodes
2128 2011-05-24 15:36:38 <sipa> diki: two slots in height, not how many pcie connectors it has
2129 2011-05-24 15:36:56 <diki> yes i understand
2130 2011-05-24 15:36:59 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - good. I was thinking we should collect trusted public keys and put them in the config even if they are not building right now. In case the current set of people has some turnover.
2131 2011-05-24 15:36:59 <diki> and i say it's not
2132 2011-05-24 15:37:11 <sipa> well then i don't believe you, but carry on :)
2133 2011-05-24 15:37:33 d1g1t4l has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2134 2011-05-24 15:37:33 <diki> I dont even think my crossfire bridge is going to be long enough
2135 2011-05-24 15:37:38 <_polo_> BlueMatt. uhmm. nice. can you give me a clue where to find it in the code. I want to get inspired to do the same in another p2p project
2136 2011-05-24 15:37:44 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: hm, well the problem is the people now will never be willing to build, not strictly that they cant now
2137 2011-05-24 15:37:45 <sipa> diki: http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/cypress-3/his-5850-front.jpg - sure looks 2 slots high
2138 2011-05-24 15:37:48 citiz3n has joined
2139 2011-05-24 15:37:50 Clipse has joined
2140 2011-05-24 15:37:54 <dinox> Anyone knowing if a compiled version of bitcoind on ubuntu 10.04 would work on another computer running ubuntu 10.04?
2141 2011-05-24 15:38:04 <BlueMatt> also, bitcoin-otc wot signups are a great place, you can get just about anyone's pgp key there
2142 2011-05-24 15:38:08 <BlueMatt> :)
2143 2011-05-24 15:38:23 <_polo_> dinox? same processor? yes.
2144 2011-05-24 15:38:41 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - well, if it's never, not even emergencies, then it's not useful
2145 2011-05-24 15:38:42 <BlueMatt> _polo_: irc.cpp
2146 2011-05-24 15:39:00 <dinox> _polo_: hmm, Intel atom == Intel xeon? :P
2147 2011-05-24 15:39:03 d1g1t4l has joined
2148 2011-05-24 15:39:05 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: well take for example, jgarzik, he cant due to copyright reasons, so probably wont ever...
2149 2011-05-24 15:39:27 <BlueMatt> the majority are restrictions on desire to do it and/or hardware requirements
2150 2011-05-24 15:39:46 <_polo_> dinox. I think it ll work nice, as the software was compiled to the same processor architecture.
2151 2011-05-24 15:40:12 dan__ has joined
2152 2011-05-24 15:40:13 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - I'm sure I'll have ways to build it without kvm at some point
2153 2011-05-24 15:40:19 <BlueMatt> dinox: x86 == x86 provided you didnt do anything crazy like enable sse compile options
2154 2011-05-24 15:40:35 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - where do we stand with the 0.3.22 build? Should I continue working on the downloader or is there something else I should be looking at?
2155 2011-05-24 15:40:57 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: hm, Im just not sure about giving a ton of people access who might never build...just incase they lose their keys or such
2156 2011-05-24 15:41:20 <sipa> gavin's signature would be nice :)
2157 2011-05-24 15:41:21 <dinox> _polo_ & BlueMatt: Thanks, would there be more problems if you mixed ubuntu versions? like compile on 10.10 and run on 10.04?
2158 2011-05-24 15:41:25 <BlueMatt> 0.3.22 is building fine with gitian, though I dont think the setup on win32 will be converted to gitian until 0.4
2159 2011-05-24 15:41:42 <devrandom_> BlueMatt sipa - I was thinking just 3-5 people. Gavin included of course.
2160 2011-05-24 15:42:08 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: meh, Im not against it by any means, just not strictly for it...I see very little benifit
2161 2011-05-24 15:42:53 <BlueMatt> I understand emergencies and the like for security issues, but at that point, you'd hope youd be able to contact someone via phone or whatever to at least get them to sign your build if they cant build at the time
2162 2011-05-24 15:43:22 <BlueMatt> speaking of which, sipa keep your whois phone number up to date ;)
2163 2011-05-24 15:43:37 <BlueMatt> nope its anon, sipa...
2164 2011-05-24 15:44:01 LiveFreeOrDie201 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2165 2011-05-24 15:44:15 <devrandom_> ok
2166 2011-05-24 15:44:48 <_polo_> dinox. nope
2167 2011-05-24 15:44:49 <devrandom_> remind me who is committed to building?
2168 2011-05-24 15:45:27 <dinox> _polo_: Ok, thanks!
2169 2011-05-24 15:45:36 <Zape_> lukejr: If you're right that would mean a 2U box could pump 2240 MH/sdrawing off the Asus' 1400 W power supply. Yeah, it would cost 10K MSRP, but you could stack 21 into a full size 42U rack for 47.04 GH/s
2170 2011-05-24 15:46:13 <BlueMatt> me, sipa, you, TD, tcatm
2171 2011-05-24 15:46:17 <Diablo-D3> lolfail
2172 2011-05-24 15:46:27 <Diablo-D3> Zape_: 1400 w constant?
2173 2011-05-24 15:46:29 <Diablo-D3> lolfail
2174 2011-05-24 15:46:43 <Diablo-D3> the only large psu thats any good is the corsair ax 1200
2175 2011-05-24 15:46:47 <Zape_> http://event.asus.com/server/2011/esc4000/
2176 2011-05-24 15:47:02 <Diablo-D3> LOL ENTERPRISE SHIT
2177 2011-05-24 15:47:13 <Diablo-D3> LOL TESLA
2178 2011-05-24 15:47:24 <Diablo-D3> like the infiniband though
2179 2011-05-24 15:47:34 <_polo_> hey. I'm looking for bitcoin written in a dynamic language such as python or ruby. there is a lot of parcial implementations on github, any suggestion?
2180 2011-05-24 15:47:37 <Diablo-D3> Zape_: thats not an asus psu though
2181 2011-05-24 15:47:44 <Diablo-D3> its a standard redundant enterprise psu
2182 2011-05-24 15:47:44 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - remind me who is committed to building?
2183 2011-05-24 15:47:56 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: <BlueMatt> me, sipa, you, TD, tcatm
2184 2011-05-24 15:47:56 <Diablo-D3> _polo_: there isnt one.
2185 2011-05-24 15:48:18 <Zape_> I know that, I was referring to the ASUS barebones kit which includes 8 PCI x16 slots.
2186 2011-05-24 15:48:27 <_polo_> Diablo-D3 ow. why is that?
2187 2011-05-24 15:48:45 <Zape_> which combines nicely with the new 1 slot V7900 from AMD which only draws 150 W each.
2188 2011-05-24 15:48:46 <sipa> because it's a huge work to write a full client from scratch
2189 2011-05-24 15:49:04 <Diablo-D3> Zape_: url?
2190 2011-05-24 15:49:14 <Namegduf> _polo_: Why do you really want it written in one of those languages?
2191 2011-05-24 15:49:20 <Zape_> http://tech.icrontic.com/articles/reviews/amd-unleashes-the-cayman-based-firepro-v5900-and-v7900/
2192 2011-05-24 15:49:24 <Pilate> _polo_: clients or miners?
2193 2011-05-24 15:49:31 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - ok
2194 2011-05-24 15:49:34 <Diablo-D3> Zape_: hrrrrm that VERY interesting
2195 2011-05-24 15:49:52 <Diablo-D3> wait
2196 2011-05-24 15:49:53 <Diablo-D3> I lied
2197 2011-05-24 15:49:53 <_polo_> Namegduf. I'm used to it, think is better to understand the source.
2198 2011-05-24 15:49:56 <Diablo-D3> $999
2199 2011-05-24 15:49:57 <Diablo-D3> ffffffffffff
2200 2011-05-24 15:50:01 <_polo_> Pilate client.
2201 2011-05-24 15:50:05 <devrandom_> TD tcatm - public keys?
2202 2011-05-24 15:50:32 <_polo_> Pilate. specially the p2p bootstrap
2203 2011-05-24 15:50:36 <sipa> devrandom_: you have mine?
2204 2011-05-24 15:50:54 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: here is tcatm's, not sure about TD: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewgpg.php?nick=tcatm
2205 2011-05-24 15:51:00 <Diablo-D3> hrm
2206 2011-05-24 15:51:03 <Diablo-D3> it said its a cayman
2207 2011-05-24 15:51:15 <Diablo-D3> a 150w cayman
2208 2011-05-24 15:51:28 <Diablo-D3> with 1280 pipes
2209 2011-05-24 15:51:33 <Diablo-D3> no such cayman exists
2210 2011-05-24 15:51:59 <Zape_> Diablo-D3: yes, it's really more about stacking them into a tight space and going low power than best bang for the buying buck.
2211 2011-05-24 15:52:05 <Diablo-D3> that isnt it
2212 2011-05-24 15:52:08 <Diablo-D3> that chip doesnt exist
2213 2011-05-24 15:52:35 <Zape_> Well, it didn't exist.
2214 2011-05-24 15:52:35 <Diablo-D3> that'd be smaller than a 6950
2215 2011-05-24 15:52:41 skeledrew1 has joined
2216 2011-05-24 15:52:46 <Diablo-D3> 6950 is 150 watts with 1408 pipes
2217 2011-05-24 15:53:43 <devrandom_> sipa - yes
2218 2011-05-24 15:53:46 <Zape_> Obviously, it's a workstation card... What I didn't see listed was processing spead.
2219 2011-05-24 15:53:50 <Zape_> errr speed.
2220 2011-05-24 15:53:51 <Diablo-D3> Zape_: 550.
2221 2011-05-24 15:54:02 <Diablo-D3> 800/1408/200*1280*150
2222 2011-05-24 15:54:14 <Diablo-D3> 545
2223 2011-05-24 15:54:30 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2224 2011-05-24 15:54:51 <Diablo-D3> somethings not right there though
2225 2011-05-24 15:55:04 <Zape_> Sorry, I don't follow that math at all.
2226 2011-05-24 15:55:17 <Diablo-D3> Zape_: a 6950 is 800mhz, has 1408 pipes, and uses 200 watts
2227 2011-05-24 15:55:24 <Diablo-D3> we're solving for mhz
2228 2011-05-24 15:55:53 <Diablo-D3> we know the new one has 1280 pipes and uses 150 watts
2229 2011-05-24 15:56:03 <Diablo-D3> we also know its a cayman
2230 2011-05-24 15:56:06 <Zape_> Well, pipes shouldn't count in that equation. It might change productivity, but not GPU speed.
2231 2011-05-24 15:56:16 <Diablo-D3> it changes wattage.
2232 2011-05-24 15:56:25 <Zape_> gotcha.
2233 2011-05-24 15:56:44 <Diablo-D3> I could do the same exact math with a 6970
2234 2011-05-24 15:57:03 <Zape_> what if they are using a smaller die size?
2235 2011-05-24 15:57:18 <Diablo-D3> gives me a lower answer of 440
2236 2011-05-24 15:57:25 <Diablo-D3> Zape_: 28nm?
2237 2011-05-24 15:57:31 <Diablo-D3> possibly, which is the interesting thing
2238 2011-05-24 15:57:37 <_polo_> BlueMatt Think is possible to make a torrent hash only to handle peers?
2239 2011-05-24 15:57:38 <Diablo-D3> but I _really_ doubt thats it
2240 2011-05-24 15:57:44 zzop has joined
2241 2011-05-24 15:57:53 <Diablo-D3> because it'd have a shitload more pips for that wattage
2242 2011-05-24 15:58:06 <Diablo-D3> also says 1450 mt/s
2243 2011-05-24 15:58:12 <Sage> may i ask how its possible there are 14 blocks generated per hour when its supposed to be 6?
2244 2011-05-24 15:58:31 <psymin> Sage: lots of people mining I guess
2245 2011-05-24 15:58:39 <psymin> Sage: it means that the difficulty is likely to keep going up
2246 2011-05-24 15:58:46 <midnightmagic> Sage: lots of greedy people think mining will make them rich
2247 2011-05-24 15:58:58 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
2248 2011-05-24 15:59:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126355 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 652 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 12 hours, 40 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 402767.79167191
2249 2011-05-24 15:59:04 <sipa> Sage: 1) correction is only done every 2012 blocks, so shortly before a correction it may be quite different from 6 2) just random variation
2250 2011-05-24 15:59:17 <midnightmagic> ;;calc ([bc,estimate]-[bc,diff])/[bc,diff]*100
2251 2011-05-24 15:59:18 <gribble> ((402,767.79167191 - 244,139.48158254) / 244,139.48158254) * 100 = 64.9744601
2252 2011-05-24 15:59:25 <midnightmagic> It was 61% last night.
2253 2011-05-24 15:59:31 deaf has quit ()
2254 2011-05-24 15:59:58 <Sage> but i thought the whole system was built to withstand the new miners
2255 2011-05-24 16:00:12 <midnightmagic> every 2016 blocks, it re-accommodates them
2256 2011-05-24 16:00:13 <psymin> midnightmagic: what does that calculation say?
2257 2011-05-24 16:00:16 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2258 2011-05-24 16:00:25 <midnightmagic> psymin: it says retarget is estimated to be 64% bigger
2259 2011-05-24 16:00:27 <sipa> Sage: it is, but not perfectly
2260 2011-05-24 16:00:31 <psymin> midnightmagic: thx :)
2261 2011-05-24 16:00:36 <Sage> i started mining pretty much today but i just wanna help the bitcoin grow, i love the idea or having free p2p currency
2262 2011-05-24 16:00:53 <midnightmagic> excellent. people like you are the reason why it will be a success.
2263 2011-05-24 16:01:01 <sipa> how much Mhash/s?
2264 2011-05-24 16:01:19 <Sage> thou im having second thoughts about it, i spent 730⬠just for the card and power supply
2265 2011-05-24 16:01:32 <midnightmagic> it's the.. others, most often on the other side of the law or in grey areas, that give us all a bad rep.
2266 2011-05-24 16:01:47 <midnightmagic> which card?
2267 2011-05-24 16:01:59 <Sage> yea, but what can we do about it?
2268 2011-05-24 16:02:01 <Sage> 6990
2269 2011-05-24 16:02:20 <midnightmagic> Sage: get legitimate adoption by legal, honest people, and especially by retailers.
2270 2011-05-24 16:02:29 fimp has joined
2271 2011-05-24 16:02:39 <midnightmagic> Sage: but for us, basically, just being nice people who pay our taxes is enough.
2272 2011-05-24 16:03:24 <Ramen> it shouldn't be against the law
2273 2011-05-24 16:03:31 <Ramen> all funds are traceable ...
2274 2011-05-24 16:03:36 <psymin> Ramen: I think I missed soemthing
2275 2011-05-24 16:03:38 <Sage> midnightmagic im going to do some eshops and id love to make them btc acceptable
2276 2011-05-24 16:03:45 <BlueMatt> _polo_: it absolutely is, but no one has bothered...its not a terrible design but really wouldnt change anything drastically...Id like to see upgrades to dnsseeds and IMHO that could fix everything
2277 2011-05-24 16:04:27 <uppe> the btc currency will flourish when retailers start accepting it. then they will flourish too.
2278 2011-05-24 16:04:51 <Ramen> I think right now the problem is liquidity and stable exchange rate...
2279 2011-05-24 16:04:53 <BlueMatt> pretty much, care to send an email to all the retailers you use regularly and ask them to accept bitcoin?
2280 2011-05-24 16:05:05 <midnightmagic> the people who sell dope over i2p, and when career criminals adopt it for cross-border wealth transfers.. these things really suck serious ass.
2281 2011-05-24 16:05:08 <BlueMatt> yep stable ex rate is a problem, but that is helped by retailers
2282 2011-05-24 16:05:13 <BlueMatt> (who will increase liquidity)
2283 2011-05-24 16:05:22 <zzop> Maybe someone should make a package for retailers saying "hey dudes listen, if you start collecting these coins now, you're probably going to end up with a fuckload more money than you sold the product for"
2284 2011-05-24 16:05:28 <Dekbit> lol plz buy my bitcoins at inflated prices kthnx
2285 2011-05-24 16:05:31 <zzop> Convincingly. :)
2286 2011-05-24 16:05:38 <BlueMatt> zzop: no thats a bad idea
2287 2011-05-24 16:05:45 <zzop> BlueMatt: Yeah yeah, everything is a bad idea. :)
2288 2011-05-24 16:05:46 <BlueMatt> retailers are not in the investment business
2289 2011-05-24 16:06:04 <sipa> you shouldn't see bitcoin as a way to make money by itself
2290 2011-05-24 16:06:06 <BlueMatt> its better for them to just sell right away and take 2 % on from the customer than try to invest
2291 2011-05-24 16:06:07 <zzop> BlueMatt: Sure they are. They're investing in their company every day.
2292 2011-05-24 16:06:13 <Ramen> they need stability
2293 2011-05-24 16:06:15 <sipa> it's highly risky investment if you use it that way
2294 2011-05-24 16:06:30 <Dekbit> ya you shouldnt; you should leave that to the pros and let them worry about all that free money
2295 2011-05-24 16:06:32 <zzop> sipa: Why not? Look around at the pop culture of money markets.
2296 2011-05-24 16:06:33 <BlueMatt> yea, not in the business of high-risk investments instead of storing their money
2297 2011-05-24 16:06:33 <djbev> Maybe Bitcoin is a conspiracy by the GPU companies and Satoshi really is just an GPU architect over at AMD.... you never know. They seem to be the main beneficiaries so far.
2298 2011-05-24 16:06:36 <midnightmagic> retailers need conversion to real currencies almost immediately: cashflow can't be interrupted on the hopes that deflation will make them more money later. cashflow itself must.. er.. flow.. now, to make more money *now*
2299 2011-05-24 16:06:39 <zzop> sipa: People should feel that they can get rich off of it.
2300 2011-05-24 16:06:45 <BlueMatt> zzop: money markets != retailers
2301 2011-05-24 16:06:46 glassresistor has joined
2302 2011-05-24 16:06:46 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
2303 2011-05-24 16:06:46 glassresistor has joined
2304 2011-05-24 16:06:49 <sipa> that's a false promise, imho
2305 2011-05-24 16:06:50 <BlueMatt> that is great for day-traders
2306 2011-05-24 16:06:53 <sipa> we just don't know
2307 2011-05-24 16:06:56 <BlueMatt> which we already have too much of IMHO
2308 2011-05-24 16:07:02 <zzop> BlueMatt: But they are not immune to the popular influence of it.
2309 2011-05-24 16:07:05 <BlueMatt> but for retailers...no
2310 2011-05-24 16:07:07 ar4s has joined
2311 2011-05-24 16:07:09 <sipa> though speculation is certainly an incentive for some too, they should be aware it is that way
2312 2011-05-24 16:07:09 <Zape_> Diablo-D3: Wikipedia to the rescue, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#FirePro_3D_series
2313 2011-05-24 16:07:16 m00p has joined
2314 2011-05-24 16:07:25 <zzop> You guys act like "retailers" are just a bunch of arab market dwellers with little stalls.
2315 2011-05-24 16:07:29 <BlueMatt> zzop: name one retailer that stores its money in high-risk investments, or even handles its investments itself (aside from huge ones)
2316 2011-05-24 16:07:41 <zzop> BlueMatt: Got me. But yeah, huge ones. :-)
2317 2011-05-24 16:07:43 <BlueMatt> they store their money in the bank
2318 2011-05-24 16:07:48 <BlueMatt> not in investments
2319 2011-05-24 16:08:02 <BlueMatt> only huge ones invest their money to try to make a couple percent, but not in high-risk stuff
2320 2011-05-24 16:08:03 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - I have gavinandresen's pgp ID as 01CDF4627A3B88AAE4A571C87588242FBE38D3A8 ... we should confirm that independently of bitcoin-otc.
2321 2011-05-24 16:08:03 <zzop> BlueMatt: Not true man, most of these really big companies have big venture capital divisions for example
2322 2011-05-24 16:08:07 <zzop> BlueMatt: Or they have someone else do that.
2323 2011-05-24 16:08:17 <zzop> BlueMatt: We're not appealing to WalMart here anyway.
2324 2011-05-24 16:08:19 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: they also spend it on inventory, warehousing, staff, rent/land taxes..
2325 2011-05-24 16:08:29 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: thats right according to bitcoin-otc.com
2326 2011-05-24 16:08:30 <midnightmagic> like, within a few weeks, or less depending on turnover rates.
2327 2011-05-24 16:08:46 <Dekbit> truth is there arnt enough bitcoins for widespread business adoption -- for businesses to accept bitcoins they'd have to be confident consumers have them and they dont
2328 2011-05-24 16:08:54 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: that has nothing to do with where they store their liquid assets
2329 2011-05-24 16:08:57 <Dekbit> so tiny freaking market to sell to
2330 2011-05-24 16:08:59 <Dekbit> not worth the effort
2331 2011-05-24 16:09:01 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - that's where I got the key ID from ;) should verify it in another way
2332 2011-05-24 16:09:03 <BlueMatt> the big ones store it in investments, but the majority store it in banks
2333 2011-05-24 16:09:17 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: check pgp.mit.edu and search for gavinandresen@gmail.com
2334 2011-05-24 16:09:30 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: it has to do with cash *flow*, rather than letting the value sit in a deflationary currency and crippling (for example) the next stock order.
2335 2011-05-24 16:09:30 <BlueMatt> (or other keyserver)
2336 2011-05-24 16:10:09 <Dekbit> All it would take is 1 medium scale business accepting bitcoins to crash the price of bitcoins and force every othe rbusiness out of the market as they saw their supposive bitcoin wealth evaporate before they could even withdraw it
2337 2011-05-24 16:10:14 <sipa> ideally there would be some real-life path-of-trust between some bitcoin developers
2338 2011-05-24 16:10:19 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: exactly, but no retailer stores the cash mid-flow in anything but abank, except for huge ones
2339 2011-05-24 16:10:22 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - ok... would be better to have a person confirm it.
2340 2011-05-24 16:10:31 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2341 2011-05-24 16:10:32 <zzop> Dekbit: So how to accomplish this before the PR machine makes everyone afraid of these things?
2342 2011-05-24 16:10:33 <Namegduf> Dekbit: Huh?
2343 2011-05-24 16:10:45 <zzop> Dekbit: Seems to me that there's a limited window of opportunity, even if the code keeps going.
2344 2011-05-24 16:10:45 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: sipa yea, but until we have one...pgp works
2345 2011-05-24 16:10:47 <Namegduf> One medium scale business accepting bitcoin would... collapse the price how?
2346 2011-05-24 16:11:01 <Namegduf> If lots spent their bitcoins, their value would go up
2347 2011-05-24 16:11:02 <zzop> Namegduf: Actually that's a good question.
2348 2011-05-24 16:11:05 <Dekbit> getting free bitcoins that have been generated and hoarded then dumping them on the market
2349 2011-05-24 16:11:07 <sipa> BlueMatt: pgp is intended to be used with a web of trust :)
2350 2011-05-24 16:11:07 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: hence nightly deposits. risk of theft is too great when losing a single day's worth of revenue can cripple the bottom line for weeks.
2351 2011-05-24 16:11:10 <BlueMatt> has gavin not pgp signed a message or release or two?
2352 2011-05-24 16:11:18 <Dekbit> cause they wouldnt hoard they'd sell immediately
2353 2011-05-24 16:11:40 <Namegduf> Dekbit: And why would currently hoarded BTC be gotten by them?
2354 2011-05-24 16:11:45 <gjs278> do you guys really not believe it's him
2355 2011-05-24 16:11:46 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: anyway, I dont see what you are arguing, if you think small retailers should store in bitcoin, even for a couple minutes, Id call you insane
2356 2011-05-24 16:11:48 <Dekbit> who else would be buying their services?
2357 2011-05-24 16:11:53 <Namegduf> Anyone with BTC?
2358 2011-05-24 16:11:54 <Dekbit> only people with current btc
2359 2011-05-24 16:11:55 <BlueMatt> if you dont, then we both say the same thing
2360 2011-05-24 16:12:00 <Dekbit> a lot of those were generated
2361 2011-05-24 16:12:00 <midnightmagic> Namegduf: it would crash it because they would need to convert to cash often and regularly. and people would just lowball them because people know a brick-and-mortar business *requires* cashflow to survive.
2362 2011-05-24 16:12:02 <Dekbit> but held
2363 2011-05-24 16:12:18 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm agreeing with you.
2364 2011-05-24 16:12:24 <BlueMatt> sipa: well, it _can_ be used otherwise too :)
2365 2011-05-24 16:12:32 <sipa> sure
2366 2011-05-24 16:12:41 <BlueMatt> pgp works fine...all my emails are pgp signed so you know what to look for
2367 2011-05-24 16:12:52 <sipa> but at least theoretically you're always vulnerable to a man-in-the-middle attack
2368 2011-05-24 16:12:58 <BlueMatt> ?
2369 2011-05-24 16:13:05 <BlueMatt> isnt that the point of asym crypto?
2370 2011-05-24 16:13:06 <gjs278> man in the middle attacks are nerd fantasy
2371 2011-05-24 16:13:17 <Dekbit> u kidding?
2372 2011-05-24 16:13:18 <sipa> BlueMatt: no, it's the point of a web of trust
2373 2011-05-24 16:13:24 <Namegduf> MITM attacks are a problem countered by any competent cryptographic setup
2374 2011-05-24 16:13:30 <BlueMatt> oh you mean mitm of exchanging pubkeys
2375 2011-05-24 16:13:31 <Namegduf> WoT deals with them
2376 2011-05-24 16:13:34 <sipa> yes
2377 2011-05-24 16:13:41 fahadsadah has quit (Excess Flood)
2378 2011-05-24 16:13:55 <BlueMatt> meh, you can get mine from so many different sources, it would be one intense mitm
2379 2011-05-24 16:14:01 <BlueMatt> and if you are really paranoid, call me
2380 2011-05-24 16:14:06 <sipa> :)
2381 2011-05-24 16:14:18 <sipa> even then i wouldn't know you are you </paranoid>
2382 2011-05-24 16:14:25 <sipa> *whether
2383 2011-05-24 16:14:26 <gjs278> that's not something the real BlueMatt would offer us
2384 2011-05-24 16:14:33 <gjs278> this is a fraud
2385 2011-05-24 16:15:09 <BlueMatt> ok, then Ill go scan my license with my pgp key below it...good enough?
2386 2011-05-24 16:15:46 <gjs278> show us the pgp key on your birth certificate, long form
2387 2011-05-24 16:15:48 <sipa> no need, i left paranoid mode 3 lines ago
2388 2011-05-24 16:16:18 <midnightmagic> right, because we know "BlueMatt" the online persona well enough that a birth certificate would be helpful in identifying him.
2389 2011-05-24 16:16:27 <BlueMatt> gjs278: lol, but then you dont have a pic...you need me holding pgp key + license + long form b cert
2390 2011-05-24 16:16:28 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: so? cough it up.
2391 2011-05-24 16:16:41 <BlueMatt> lol
2392 2011-05-24 16:16:47 <Ramen> unless the birth certificate is from Hawaii then it doesn't count
2393 2011-05-24 16:17:37 <gjs278> if you steal someone's pgp private key long enough, do you become that person
2394 2011-05-24 16:18:13 <BlueMatt> yep
2395 2011-05-24 16:18:21 <BlueMatt> identity == pgp, not actual person
2396 2011-05-24 16:18:27 zzop has quit (Quit: leaving)
2397 2011-05-24 16:18:28 fffee has joined
2398 2011-05-24 16:18:32 fffee has quit (Client Quit)
2399 2011-05-24 16:18:33 <midnightmagic> not even, really a driver's licence would be at all meaningful..
2400 2011-05-24 16:18:42 dan__ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2401 2011-05-24 16:19:01 eao has joined
2402 2011-05-24 16:19:16 <Sage> i have one seriously lame question: where can i learn all the stuff you are talking about here?
2403 2011-05-24 16:19:27 <BlueMatt> wikipedia?
2404 2011-05-24 16:19:28 <ntosme21> how about a pgp-signed photo of a driver's license?
2405 2011-05-24 16:19:45 <BlueMatt> but I could have stole the drivers license?
2406 2011-05-24 16:19:52 <BlueMatt> you still need me holding all 3
2407 2011-05-24 16:19:56 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2408 2011-05-24 16:20:40 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if you don't have a b cert, does that mean you were never born?
2409 2011-05-24 16:20:40 <ntosme21> passport scan?
2410 2011-05-24 16:20:55 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yep, or born in africa
2411 2011-05-24 16:21:04 wolfspraul has joined
2412 2011-05-24 16:21:26 <luke-jr> ntosme21: who has a passport anymore? :p
2413 2011-05-24 16:21:31 <ntosme21> me
2414 2011-05-24 16:21:34 <BlueMatt> lol
2415 2011-05-24 16:21:42 <BlueMatt> an american living abroad like myself?
2416 2011-05-24 16:22:01 <luke-jr> I think getting passports from this corrupt USA would be rather difficult
2417 2011-05-24 16:22:16 fahadsadah has joined
2418 2011-05-24 16:22:40 <midnightmagic> Sage: what are you interested in learning about? PGP/GPG keys?
2419 2011-05-24 16:22:47 theboos has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2420 2011-05-24 16:23:24 <Sage> midnightmagic yea that too, im totally new to this whole p2p and anonymous thingy
2421 2011-05-24 16:23:30 <Sage> just few days ago i founded out about tor
2422 2011-05-24 16:24:06 <erbs> greetings brosephs
2423 2011-05-24 16:24:09 <midnightmagic> Sage: Well just so you know, bitcoin is not anonymous. Anytime it interacts with the real world (like in a market for example) the links between ฿ and humans can be made.
2424 2011-05-24 16:24:12 Lachesis has joined
2425 2011-05-24 16:24:30 <gjs278> BlueMatt what language do you think in
2426 2011-05-24 16:24:31 <gjs278> english
2427 2011-05-24 16:24:33 <gjs278> or german
2428 2011-05-24 16:24:36 <BlueMatt> english
2429 2011-05-24 16:24:41 <BlueMatt> my german is ok...not great
2430 2011-05-24 16:24:44 <gjs278> oh ok
2431 2011-05-24 16:24:45 <Clarence> alexa is funny. Bitcoin.org's three-month global Alexa traffic rank is 11,684. Relative to the overall population of internet users, the site's audience tends to be male; it also appeals more to childless, low-income users under the age of 35 who browse from home.
2432 2011-05-24 16:24:48 C4colo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2433 2011-05-24 16:24:55 <Sage> midnightmagic even when you are on free wifi somewhere faking your mac and using 7 proxies?
2434 2011-05-24 16:25:04 <BlueMatt> Clarence: sounds about right
2435 2011-05-24 16:25:19 <uppe> BlueMatt: rude to refer to your girlfriend like that! of course your german is great!
2436 2011-05-24 16:25:27 <vegard> heh. there are some wtfs in bitcoin: if (nErr == WSAEWOULDBLOCK || nErr == WSAEINTR || nErr == WSAEINPROGRESS) { Sleep(10); continue; }
2437 2011-05-24 16:25:29 <BlueMatt> ?
2438 2011-05-24 16:25:35 <jrmithdobbs> Sage: still have to get money in and out of the system
2439 2011-05-24 16:25:44 <jrmithdobbs> Sage: so, yes
2440 2011-05-24 16:25:45 <midnightmagic> Sage: how do you get real-world currency into your own hands? or ฿? You have to mine them yourself, and then spend them for other anonymous things if you want a hope of staying anonymous
2441 2011-05-24 16:25:51 <jrmithdobbs> Sage: it is pseudanonymous
2442 2011-05-24 16:26:00 <uppe> or maybe you don't have a german gf... :-)
2443 2011-05-24 16:26:08 * uppe is pseudofunny
2444 2011-05-24 16:26:52 <Sage> midnightmagic ok but that wasnt the point :D
2445 2011-05-24 16:26:54 qba has joined
2446 2011-05-24 16:27:14 <jaromil> Clarence: i guess alexa is quite right
2447 2011-05-24 16:27:22 <jrmithdobbs> Sage: no that is the point
2448 2011-05-24 16:27:37 <Sage> jrmithdobbs but that wasnt what i was talking/asking about
2449 2011-05-24 16:27:37 <jaromil> which makes bitcoin very powerful if you consider that profile is actually about people that will build their economy in a close future
2450 2011-05-24 16:27:37 <midnightmagic> Sage: then.. uh.. the answer to your question is, "Yes."
2451 2011-05-24 16:27:41 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2452 2011-05-24 16:27:57 <jaromil> and aren't willing to build it in the present corrupted system, while being smart enough to make their own... :)
2453 2011-05-24 16:28:08 <jrmithdobbs> Sage: then you asked the wrong thing
2454 2011-05-24 16:28:08 <Sage> midnightmagic i wanted to learn the ways of anonymous, not hear "yes" :)
2455 2011-05-24 16:28:10 <Dekbit> there is no such thing as pseudoanonymous
2456 2011-05-24 16:28:14 <jrmithdobbs> Sage: because that is definitely the point.
2457 2011-05-24 16:28:22 <erbs> frozen owls
2458 2011-05-24 16:28:33 <midnightmagic> Sage: I'm definitely not in it for the lulz.
2459 2011-05-24 16:29:39 <Sage> midnightmagic now im not sure what you mean - in the "helping me get there" or "the whole thing"
2460 2011-05-24 16:30:13 <midnightmagic> Sage: :-) Anyway, seek anonymity through large mining rigs, tor (possibly i2p) and making sure you never convert your ฿ to standard currency, and .. hrm.. never spending it on something that can be somehow subsequently linked to you, ever.
2461 2011-05-24 16:30:50 <jrmithdobbs> so impossible
2462 2011-05-24 16:30:51 <jrmithdobbs> basically
2463 2011-05-24 16:31:04 <Sage> how can i open privat chat? :D
2464 2011-05-24 16:31:04 <Dekbit> any time a single person can be identified using a single coin you also used before the transactions can be traced back to you through any intermediary holders of the coin
2465 2011-05-24 16:32:12 <midnightmagic> Dekbit: I wouldn't go that far.
2466 2011-05-24 16:32:55 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - so I have the following on my todo list: incremental upgrade of a destination directory (i.e. upgrade between versions), add version # to build reports so that downloader can check that it's going up, maybe implement a json option
2467 2011-05-24 16:33:43 <erbs> whats new doood
2468 2011-05-24 16:34:19 <BlueMatt> devrandom_: sounds good to me, Ill look at compiling the download script into a proper installer later, maybe late this week
2469 2011-05-24 16:34:30 <Sage> anyway midnightmagic, i dont want to be anonymous (well not so much), id rather help others
2470 2011-05-24 16:34:38 <BlueMatt> (wrap it in nsis somehow)
2471 2011-05-24 16:34:44 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - you mean for win32?
2472 2011-05-24 16:34:48 <BlueMatt> yea
2473 2011-05-24 16:34:49 dan__ has joined
2474 2011-05-24 16:34:50 <midnightmagic> Sage: well that will be a much easier thing to do. :)
2475 2011-05-24 16:35:10 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - there's py2exe
2476 2011-05-24 16:35:17 <erbs> upgrayd
2477 2011-05-24 16:35:18 <devrandom_> no experience with it
2478 2011-05-24 16:35:30 Incitatus has joined
2479 2011-05-24 16:35:37 <BlueMatt> yea, but Id like it in a really nice exe with gui like a regular installer and the like...probably easier to just do a postinst scrip in nsis
2480 2011-05-24 16:36:04 <Sage> midnightmagic but before that i have to learn what it all actually is and how it works, right?
2481 2011-05-24 16:36:25 <BlueMatt> (via py2exe)
2482 2011-05-24 16:36:36 <Dekbit> midnight: why not? the block chain is public. You would just need to "ask" each person
2483 2011-05-24 16:36:49 <devrandom_> BlueMatt - ok
2484 2011-05-24 16:38:26 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2485 2011-05-24 16:40:07 Zape_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2486 2011-05-24 16:40:22 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2487 2011-05-24 16:40:43 <erbs> bitconi is awesome mang
2488 2011-05-24 16:41:11 <erbs> bitcoin rather
2489 2011-05-24 16:41:21 kelvie_ has joined
2490 2011-05-24 16:41:41 DrewSJ has joined
2491 2011-05-24 16:41:45 <midnightmagic> Sage: it would be a good idea. The Wiki has a lot of info in it, but it's pretty disjointed. Personally, I learned the most when I asked questions and read the source code. Can you grok c++? Things are a lot easier to understand if you can.
2492 2011-05-24 16:41:54 <vegard> hoho -- the stack randomisation technique in bitcoin is quite... interesting. but doesn't the compiler optimise it away as tail recursion?
2493 2011-05-24 16:42:43 <midnightmagic> Dekbit: if I contacted you through a tor outproxy, bought some virtual server space with bitcoins I mined myself, How are you going to help investigators at all find out who I am?
2494 2011-05-24 16:43:20 <erbs> tor can be traced.. but its not ez to do
2495 2011-05-24 16:43:45 <Sage> midnightmagic id have to start with networking, because im totally lame
2496 2011-05-24 16:43:47 <erbs> you might want to up the # of proxies from te default of 3 to like 5 or something when doing sensitive things
2497 2011-05-24 16:44:03 <Sage> midnightmagic all i know is some php
2498 2011-05-24 16:44:35 <midnightmagic> Sage: in that case, I guess just read the wiki obsessively. I found it very interesting to search on Satoshi's nickname in the forums and read his old posts.
2499 2011-05-24 16:44:50 <erbs> EU requires all ISPs to maintain TCP start/stop connection logs between all hosts for between 3 months and 2 years, at various sample rates
2500 2011-05-24 16:44:52 <Sage> whos that?
2501 2011-05-24 16:45:08 <midnightmagic> Sage: that's the guy who designed and wrote Bitcoin.
2502 2011-05-24 16:45:23 <Sage> midnightmagic :-] see how lame i am?
2503 2011-05-24 16:45:23 <erbs> US has similar practices.. so all co nnections are logged, and the times can be correlated.. but this requires subpoena power in all 3+ jurisdictions that your packets travel through
2504 2011-05-24 16:46:21 <erbs> and then a specialized analysis of the data.. its not ez like they do now just by calling up an isp and asking who the subcriber is.. but if you're a major "person of interest" to the gov they can do some tracking
2505 2011-05-24 16:47:38 <erbs> the level of surveillance is astounding
2506 2011-05-24 16:47:45 <midnightmagic> erbs: cites for connection logging?
2507 2011-05-24 16:48:04 <erbs> imagine if gov knew every building you walked in and out of and the times
2508 2011-05-24 16:48:21 <erbs> google for eff eu data retention
2509 2011-05-24 16:48:22 Blitzboom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2510 2011-05-24 16:49:00 <midnightmagic> and for the U.S.?
2511 2011-05-24 16:50:05 <erbs> we already know the US has access to the raw traffic at every major isp. the carriers provide them with all the data they want... and they have DCS so they can monitor all traffic from any isp on demand
2512 2011-05-24 16:50:28 <erbs> dcs is the lawful intercept - which every isp is required to provide. lets them packet trace whatever they want
2513 2011-05-24 16:50:33 kika_ has joined
2514 2011-05-24 16:50:54 Blitzboom has joined
2515 2011-05-24 16:51:24 <midnightmagic> dcs?
2516 2011-05-24 16:51:28 <jercos> DCS is for phone calls >.>
2517 2011-05-24 16:51:33 <jercos> And text messages.
2518 2011-05-24 16:51:40 <jercos> midnightmagic: digital storm.
2519 2011-05-24 16:51:40 <erbs> calea is for phone calls
2520 2011-05-24 16:51:59 <erbs> dcs is for any IP traffic, emails, http, anything they care to monitor
2521 2011-05-24 16:52:21 <erbs> calea is an automated interface the feds can use to snoop on any call that passes through a digital network
2522 2011-05-24 16:53:05 <erbs> actually calea expans to more than that.. mobile as well
2523 2011-05-24 16:53:07 devrandom_ is now known as devrandom
2524 2011-05-24 16:56:15 zyb has joined
2525 2011-05-24 16:56:16 <Dekbit> midnight: lol my scenario specifically was about tracing coins that have been used repeatedly not generated coins
2526 2011-05-24 16:57:16 dan__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2527 2011-05-24 16:57:16 d1g1t4l has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2529 2011-05-24 16:59:54 <Sage> do you think mining is still profitable for new miners?
2530 2011-05-24 17:00:10 <Sage> im not sure because of the raising difficulty
2531 2011-05-24 17:00:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
2532 2011-05-24 17:00:13 <Dekbit> depends if you have masive free hardware to use
2533 2011-05-24 17:01:15 <midnightmagic> "[09:25] <Dekbit> any time a single person can be identified using a single coin you also used before the transactions can be traced back to you through any intermediary holders of the coin" â i was just answering that.
2534 2011-05-24 17:01:35 <Dekbit> do you see where it says 'used before the transactions'?
2535 2011-05-24 17:01:49 <Dekbit> sorry if i wasnt clear but that means the coin traced had to be used by you previously
2536 2011-05-24 17:01:52 <midnightmagic> that just seemed to encompass coins that I had generated, but were used multiple times by other people beyond that.
2537 2011-05-24 17:02:17 <erbs> the level of internet surveillance is through the roof. they are now data mining social network sites to find dissenters...
2538 2011-05-24 17:02:19 <Dekbit> so if you generate a coin, then pass it to someone, they pass it to someone, you find out about that person and ask em where they got it, then ask the next person, next thing you know they found you
2539 2011-05-24 17:02:19 <erbs> pretty crazed
2540 2011-05-24 17:02:36 <Dekbit> and by ask it could be a court order
2541 2011-05-24 17:02:39 <erbs> of course now they have more data than they know what to do with, but they are gradually getting a process to filter it
2542 2011-05-24 17:02:50 <midnightmagic> Dekbit: right, that's what I think is a little far-fetched depending on how the coin was spent.
2543 2011-05-24 17:03:16 Blitzboom_ has joined
2544 2011-05-24 17:03:39 <Ramen> so it's actually easier to trace money on bitcoin then real life lol
2545 2011-05-24 17:03:43 <Dekbit> IF you generated it and were on a public wifi through multiple proxies then yes, maybe it would be extremely difficult to get that last leg
2546 2011-05-24 17:03:57 <vegard> making a decentralised social network based on privacy and crypto shouldn't be too hard -- not even the storage providers should be able to see your data
2547 2011-05-24 17:04:00 <Dekbit> but not impossible if you slip up even once
2548 2011-05-24 17:04:48 <midnightmagic> Dekbit: even if you were able to get ahold of the coins, all you have to do is ensure that the payment arrived to you, and left from you, with enough of a disconnect that it can't be traced.
2549 2011-05-24 17:05:02 <erbs> yeah if you take reasonable precautions when doing sensitive things, the cost for them to trace you is higher than the value they get from it.. unless your bin laden's courier
2550 2011-05-24 17:05:07 <Dekbit> yes but if your in the chain at all suspicion would be on you and you'd be called in
2551 2011-05-24 17:05:16 <Dekbit> just saying 'i sent it to some other guy who knows' might not cut it
2552 2011-05-24 17:05:21 <Dekbit> basically bitcoin itself is insecure and non-anonymous but you can take other third party steps to protect yourself more
2553 2011-05-24 17:05:36 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2554 2011-05-24 17:05:50 <midnightmagic> well that's my point: how would anyone even know it was you, right? it's not like you have to have a personal relationship with someone to pay them bitcoins.
2555 2011-05-24 17:05:50 <erbs> in some sense Tor is a honeypot. lots of exit servers are govt-run, they monitor all the traffic of course
2556 2011-05-24 17:06:17 <wumpus> yeah, ideally you don't use exit nodes with tor, or at least https sites only
2557 2011-05-24 17:06:48 <erbs> wikileaks got their first data dumps by setting up exit servers and monitoring the traffic.. turned out a lot of govt diplomats used it to communicate
2558 2011-05-24 17:07:44 <wumpus> right, a lot of people don't realize that, whereas tor-to-tor traffic is encrypted, traffic from the exit nodes is not
2559 2011-05-24 17:07:51 <erbs> yeah
2560 2011-05-24 17:08:03 <midnightmagic> erbs: that's never really been confirmed.
2561 2011-05-24 17:08:15 <erbs> do you expect the head of the cia to call a press conference and confirm it?
2562 2011-05-24 17:08:25 <Sage> who would ever use tor for normal net?
2563 2011-05-24 17:08:27 <midnightmagic> erbs: it hasn't been confirmed by anybody.
2564 2011-05-24 17:08:55 <midnightmagic> erbs: and I think.. I thought I saw Assange denying it in a video..
2565 2011-05-24 17:09:03 <erbs> oh as far as wikileaks using it?
2566 2011-05-24 17:09:03 <wumpus> of course he denies it
2567 2011-05-24 17:09:07 <wumpus> it's probably illegal
2568 2011-05-24 17:09:07 <midnightmagic> yeah, wikileaks.
2569 2011-05-24 17:09:36 chmod755 has joined
2570 2011-05-24 17:09:48 <Sage> what is wrong with my cooling when after one hour the temperature keeps rising (about 1°C per 15 minutes)
2571 2011-05-24 17:10:01 <midnightmagic> If it was a dump from a tor exit node, it was done by someone who leaked the results to wikileaks, not by wikileaks or assange them/him/self.
2572 2011-05-24 17:10:17 <midnightmagic> Sage: are you on Linux?
2573 2011-05-24 17:10:28 <wumpus> very possible of course
2574 2011-05-24 17:10:29 <Sage> midnightmagic nope
2575 2011-05-24 17:10:37 <erbs> http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/wikileaks-documents/
2576 2011-05-24 17:10:40 <wumpus> it's a leaks site.. people leak to it
2577 2011-05-24 17:10:51 ar4s has left ()
2578 2011-05-24 17:10:54 <erbs> a wikileaks insider told new yorker that they were using Tor
2579 2011-05-24 17:11:19 <Dekbit> Sage: can turn up fans 5%. might just be the default fan settings a bit too low
2580 2011-05-24 17:11:42 <Sage> dekbit: i have fans i can set on 100% already
2581 2011-05-24 17:11:44 <Dekbit> ah
2582 2011-05-24 17:11:48 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
2583 2011-05-24 17:11:51 <Sage> thats what scares me
2584 2011-05-24 17:11:52 <midnightmagic> "according to a new profile of the organizationÂs founder." And I'm pretty sure the insider was that one that was being douchy, and it was collected prior to when he joined wikileaks.
2585 2011-05-24 17:11:53 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
2586 2011-05-24 17:11:53 Blitzboom has joined
2587 2011-05-24 17:12:05 <Dekbit> lol then its your heat dissipation its just not enough to run 100%
2588 2011-05-24 17:12:15 <Dekbit> Id be careful about running it long term
2589 2011-05-24 17:12:25 <Dekbit> aka i wouldnt run it
2590 2011-05-24 17:12:30 <Dekbit> unless you throttle it down
2591 2011-05-24 17:12:37 <Sage> im trying this setup for the first time
2592 2011-05-24 17:12:48 <Dekbit> CPU or GPU?
2593 2011-05-24 17:12:49 <Sage> so i can find weak spots
2594 2011-05-24 17:12:51 <Sage> gpu
2595 2011-05-24 17:13:09 <Dekbit> So did you set GPU fan specifically?
2596 2011-05-24 17:13:24 <Sage> yes
2597 2011-05-24 17:13:31 <Dekbit> ya well thats your weak spot :)
2598 2011-05-24 17:13:39 <Sage> rofl its back to 71 now
2599 2011-05-24 17:13:42 <midnightmagic> He is using a 6990, he said so earlier.
2600 2011-05-24 17:14:03 <Sage> how can i throttle it down? i use poclmb
2601 2011-05-24 17:14:05 <midnightmagic> 71C is okay. Just watch it, and it ever gets up past ~ 85C, then you have a problem.
2602 2011-05-24 17:14:06 <Dekbit> ah sorry wasnt paying attention
2603 2011-05-24 17:14:21 <Sage> it went up to 72, now back to 71
2604 2011-05-24 17:14:31 <midnightmagic> ignore 1° differences.
2605 2011-05-24 17:14:32 <Sage> i moved the fan a bit
2606 2011-05-24 17:14:44 <Sage> well it started off with 68 after first 20 minutes
2607 2011-05-24 17:14:47 <Dekbit> also you could literally put a bigger fan facing your comp or something =P
2608 2011-05-24 17:14:50 <vegard> isn't the card's built-in fan enough?
2609 2011-05-24 17:14:51 <Dekbit> get more air flow
2610 2011-05-24 17:14:57 <Sage> dekbit i did that already
2611 2011-05-24 17:15:07 <Sage> vegard not even closely
2612 2011-05-24 17:15:10 <Dekbit> could be the case holding a lot of air in so the fan isnt able to push it out
2613 2011-05-24 17:15:23 <Sage> the case has many holes
2614 2011-05-24 17:15:27 <Dekbit> but 70 isnt that bad for a gpu
2615 2011-05-24 17:15:30 <Sage> even on top
2616 2011-05-24 17:15:46 <vegard> my card is stable on 70 degrees when I set the fan to 45
2617 2011-05-24 17:15:57 <midnightmagic> The 5970 can move 81cfm with fans on 100%. At about half speed, they can heat air from 18° to ~ 65°C at the exit of the card.
2618 2011-05-24 17:16:05 <Sage> vegard what is the room temperature and what case do you use?
2619 2011-05-24 17:16:09 <Dekbit> haha wow
2620 2011-05-24 17:16:25 kika_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2621 2011-05-24 17:16:50 <erbs> wikileaks responded to the question of whether they used Tor or not with a non-specific dismissal, but it doesnt sound like they disputed the part about using Tor: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/02/wikileaks_tor_snooping_denial/
2622 2011-05-24 17:17:01 <vegard> Sage: room temperature maybe 20 degrees. that's normal, right? I took off the side of the case
2623 2011-05-24 17:17:07 <midnightmagic> at 81CFM, per card, if you have 4 cards crammed into one machine, you have somewhere around 160CFM hitting potentially 65°C pumped into your room. That's a lot.
2624 2011-05-24 17:17:20 <Sage> vegard sounds cool, i have a bit more here
2625 2011-05-24 17:17:22 <erbs> they couldve said "We never spied on Tor traffic"
2626 2011-05-24 17:17:38 <Sage> vegard but i still cant believe you.. what clocks do you have?
2627 2011-05-24 17:17:40 <vegard> Sage: funny.
2628 2011-05-24 17:17:53 <erbs> but instead they said "Wired has a beatup on WL&Tor,with no new info,spinning "our" 2006 investigation into Chinese spying. Don't be fooled" they say wired has no new info.. thats not a denial really
2629 2011-05-24 17:18:03 <vegard> I have 6950, though.. so maybe that's why.
2630 2011-05-24 17:18:12 <midnightmagic> erbs: the "original" source of that Wired article (which is typical for Wired, writing meta-articles saying completely different things) appears to be here: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/06/07/100607fa_fact_khatchadourian?currentPage=all#ixzz0pWdlAepe and they don't actually say *WHEN* the "wikileaks activist" took the docs from his Tor exit node.
2631 2011-05-24 17:18:36 sethsethseth____ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2632 2011-05-24 17:19:06 sethsethseth_ has joined
2633 2011-05-24 17:19:16 <erbs> it said the initial the Tor docs were part of WL's "initial" trove of documents
2634 2011-05-24 17:19:17 <Sage> vegard possibly, the second core does heat up the first one as well, its one freaking barbecue grill
2635 2011-05-24 17:19:37 <vegard> next step: pump fake documents into tor
2636 2011-05-24 17:19:46 <erbs> assange didn't deny it
2637 2011-05-24 17:20:08 <erbs> "Assange responded to our inquiries by saying the New Yorker and Wired had each presented a misleading picture, without shedding much light on WikiLeaks use of Tor exit node interception"
2638 2011-05-24 17:20:10 <Sage> but how can i throttle down my miner?
2639 2011-05-24 17:20:32 <vegard> Sage: you could set a large value for "time between requests"
2640 2011-05-24 17:21:05 <midnightmagic> erbs: But I'd bet you the Tor exit node operator was that Daniel Domscheit-Berg guy, and I seem to recall he ran a Tor exit-node.
2641 2011-05-24 17:21:09 <Namegduf> To be fair, if you're idiotic enough to distribute anything over Tor without also using SSL or such
2642 2011-05-24 17:21:11 <erbs> assange never says "we did not spy on tor". in any case, if theyre using tor to track govt agents and diplomats thats fine by me.. i mean everyone knows tor exit nodes can monitor your traffic
2643 2011-05-24 17:21:11 <Sage> which one is it on poclbm? :)
2644 2011-05-24 17:21:14 <Namegduf> You deserve everything you get
2645 2011-05-24 17:21:21 <midnightmagic> erbs: Yeah, but who's the source, when Wikileaks themselves are actually denying it?
2646 2011-05-24 17:21:25 <vegard> Sage: --askrate 10
2647 2011-05-24 17:21:28 <erbs> i have no problem with WL using tor to spy on dimplomats, cia, other bad ppl
2648 2011-05-24 17:21:30 <Namegduf> Because you're sending in the clear through other people's stuff
2649 2011-05-24 17:21:42 <erbs> midnightmagic: but he didn't deny it. he said the article was misleading but didn't deny using Tor
2650 2011-05-24 17:22:06 <Dekbit> probably just misleading in the sense that he thinks its 'ok' to do in the name of freedom
2651 2011-05-24 17:22:14 <Sage> i will give that a try later
2652 2011-05-24 17:22:26 <erbs> WL was asked if they intercepted Tor data - the response from WL was non-specific
2653 2011-05-24 17:22:35 kika_ has joined
2654 2011-05-24 17:22:41 <luke-jr> hahaha nice
2655 2011-05-24 17:22:48 <Sage> i moved my fan i have against my case a bit and now the temps are going a bit down... this is a nightmare :D
2656 2011-05-24 17:23:21 <Dekbit> could be perfect if you get it stable
2657 2011-05-24 17:23:32 <Dekbit> turn down your ac a few degrees ;)
2658 2011-05-24 17:23:52 <erbs> WL is doing good work, so let them spy on diplomats via tor
2659 2011-05-24 17:24:05 <midnightmagic> erbs: But the articles themselves' "imputation is incorrect." "One of our contacts". So the "facts" on which the articles were built were maligned. And I would say that the fact the original question was re: "Tor exit node interception", and Assange's response was, "The imputation is incorrect."
2660 2011-05-24 17:24:20 <jlewis> ;;bc,gen 39000000
2661 2011-05-24 17:24:21 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 39000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 160.675801343 BTC per day and 6.69482505596 BTC per hour.
2662 2011-05-24 17:25:04 <erbs> the WL tweet in response to the wired article sasy "no new info". if the information is false, how can it be considered "no new info". wouldnt it be "false" ?
2663 2011-05-24 17:25:05 <Sage> dekbit i have no ac here... and the sun was shining in my direction
2664 2011-05-24 17:25:08 <midnightmagic> Even if it weren't a specific denial, there's no reason to believe the original New Yorker article now since it boils down to a he-said/she-said
2665 2011-05-24 17:25:24 <Sage> perhaps that caused the slow increase..
2666 2011-05-24 17:25:32 _polo_ has quit (Quit: _polo_)
2667 2011-05-24 17:25:38 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: who cares
2668 2011-05-24 17:25:44 <midnightmagic> "spinning "our" 2006 investigation into Chinese spying."
2669 2011-05-24 17:25:48 <Diablo-D3> [01:14:29] <erbs> assange never says "we did not spy on tor".
2670 2011-05-24 17:25:49 <Diablo-D3> dude
2671 2011-05-24 17:25:52 <Diablo-D3> if he can spy on tor
2672 2011-05-24 17:25:53 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: anyone sending anything through tor in plaintext deservers what they get
2673 2011-05-24 17:25:55 <Diablo-D3> he has fucking super powers
2674 2011-05-24 17:26:10 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: the idea is that Wikileaks used captured traffic from a tor exit-node.
2675 2011-05-24 17:26:20 <erbs> Diablo-D3 - anyone can spy on tor web traffic by setting up an exit server.. you can do it on your pc if you feel like it
2676 2011-05-24 17:26:20 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: that would be interesting as fuck
2677 2011-05-24 17:26:34 <jrmithdobbs> i buy it and wouldn't be surprised if it were true
2678 2011-05-24 17:26:35 <Diablo-D3> erbs: yes, but all he knows is where I am, and where my target server is
2679 2011-05-24 17:26:38 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: well that's what the New Yorker claimed.
2680 2011-05-24 17:26:39 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: thats been pretty heavily discounted.
2681 2011-05-24 17:26:46 <Diablo-D3> erbs: he cant spy through https.
2682 2011-05-24 17:26:47 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: Yeah that's what I was saying.
2683 2011-05-24 17:26:48 <jrmithdobbs> but seriously, anyone who sends plaintext traffic through tor is retarded
2684 2011-05-24 17:27:02 <erbs> jrmithdobbs - yeah i dont mind that they are doing good investigative work using Tor. as long as they arent spilling innocent ppl's data
2685 2011-05-24 17:27:05 <Sage> jrmithdobbs perhaps they cant do it better
2686 2011-05-24 17:27:07 <Diablo-D3> [12:00:28] <Zape_> Diablo-D3: Wikipedia to the rescue, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#FirePro_3D_series
2687 2011-05-24 17:27:15 <Diablo-D3> aww zape left
2688 2011-05-24 17:27:17 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: disagree
2689 2011-05-24 17:27:19 <Dekbit> Honestly assange would probably leak innocent peoples data as quickly as the govt
2690 2011-05-24 17:27:19 <erbs> but tracking the chinese crackdown of peaceful tibetans via tor is a good cause
2691 2011-05-24 17:27:22 <Diablo-D3> Im surprised thats updated so fucking fast
2692 2011-05-24 17:27:22 <gmaxwell> (It's unlikely based on the facts and it's been pretty agressively rejected by people whowould know)
2693 2011-05-24 17:27:23 <Dekbit> he just wants to leak all data
2694 2011-05-24 17:27:28 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: spill the data of innocents as far as i'm concerned
2695 2011-05-24 17:27:45 <midnightmagic> private individuals deserve their privacy.
2696 2011-05-24 17:27:56 <jercos> And public individuals don't?
2697 2011-05-24 17:27:57 <diki> lol
2698 2011-05-24 17:28:00 <midnightmagic> even if they don't have the skills to be über-hackers.
2699 2011-05-24 17:28:08 <jrmithdobbs> midnightmagic: so long as they actually take the steps to ensure their privacy, sure
2700 2011-05-24 17:28:12 <midnightmagic> no, because they are public figures who chose the life of a public figure.
2701 2011-05-24 17:28:13 <diki> i tried copying over sharelog functions in pushpool to make a blocklog function
2702 2011-05-24 17:28:17 <jrmithdobbs> midnightmagic: if no steps are taken they deserve what they get
2703 2011-05-24 17:28:18 <diki> thousands of errors popped up
2704 2011-05-24 17:28:31 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: ensuring your privacy is basically an impossible battle.
2705 2011-05-24 17:28:46 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ensuring it long enough where the data is no longer useful isn't
2706 2011-05-24 17:29:02 <jrmithdobbs> also
2707 2011-05-24 17:29:16 <jrmithdobbs> us gov needs to start enforcing that "you cannot require a ssn for anything ever" law
2708 2011-05-24 17:29:32 <jrmithdobbs> they've even enacted contrary laws that require it for things at this point
2709 2011-05-24 17:29:34 <midnightmagic> jrmithdobbs: you can't expect them to be 100% aware of the things that you are aware of. that would be like an engineer thinking you were an idiot for not intuiting the design specs of a bridge or his machinery.
2710 2011-05-24 17:29:43 <erbs> "Somewhere between none and handful of those documents were ever released on WikiLeaks." <-- in other words, "maybe we did, maybe we didn't"
2711 2011-05-24 17:29:48 <Diablo-D3> Im going to be bitching about the new firepro cards in #bitcoin-mining
2712 2011-05-24 17:29:49 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic++
2713 2011-05-24 17:30:03 <erbs> "your honor, i stole between $0 and $100,000 dollars!"
2714 2011-05-24 17:30:15 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: no
2715 2011-05-24 17:30:25 <gmaxwell> "you mean websites keep a record of my visitsâ½" sounds stupid to someone in the know, but it's really not that obvious that some ephermerial reading activity leaves a forever record.
2716 2011-05-24 17:30:34 <erbs> again, i dont think WL did anything wrong by spying on chinese thugs
2717 2011-05-24 17:30:35 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: "your honor, i may have stolen between $0 and $100,000 but there is no evidence to support this theory"
2718 2011-05-24 17:30:39 <midnightmagic> erbs: i thought it was a handful from the Chinese spying investigation..
2719 2011-05-24 17:30:43 <diki> maybe i forgot to tell the compiler to put the function in the known names...........
2720 2011-05-24 17:30:45 dbitcoin has joined
2721 2011-05-24 17:30:48 <Sage> diablo-3d are they that powerful?
2722 2011-05-24 17:30:49 <midnightmagic> and it was "one of our contacts"
2723 2011-05-24 17:30:56 <diki> fAck
2724 2011-05-24 17:31:00 <diki> and also the pointers...
2725 2011-05-24 17:31:19 <jrmithdobbs> diki: or maybe you don't know c and should start with a smaller project whose code you understand
2726 2011-05-24 17:31:22 <Sage> afk brb
2727 2011-05-24 17:31:24 <erbs> jrmithdobbs: not a convincing statement. why not say "i didn't steal anything"
2728 2011-05-24 17:31:28 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
2729 2011-05-24 17:31:35 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: because he's talking to the public not a judge
2730 2011-05-24 17:31:39 <erbs> instead of "We released between 0 and a handful of documents"
2731 2011-05-24 17:31:40 <diki> i may not know C, but i know how to copy
2732 2011-05-24 17:31:47 <erbs> thats a meaningless stmt
2733 2011-05-24 17:31:49 <diki> i've been a master at ripping scripts and functionality
2734 2011-05-24 17:31:52 <jrmithdobbs> diki: in for a world of pain
2735 2011-05-24 17:32:06 <erbs> except to say we deny releasing more than a handful of docs
2736 2011-05-24 17:32:24 FabianB_ has joined
2737 2011-05-24 17:32:27 <midnightmagic> erbs: He did. "The imputation is incorrect."
2738 2011-05-24 17:33:06 <erbs> that could mean any tangential piece of information was incorrect. he didn't address the central question of whether or not they released documents culled from Tor
2739 2011-05-24 17:33:20 <jrmithdobbs> who cares
2740 2011-05-24 17:33:20 <erbs> it is a very weak, non-specific denial
2741 2011-05-24 17:33:29 <jrmithdobbs> whats it matter if they did?
2742 2011-05-24 17:33:52 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2743 2011-05-24 17:33:55 TD has joined
2744 2011-05-24 17:33:57 <erbs> it doesnt matter. we are discussing whether or not it happaned. it seems likely, given wl never addressed the question head on
2745 2011-05-24 17:34:12 BitterTea has joined
2746 2011-05-24 17:34:18 <midnightmagic> erbs: I think the Daniel guy was the run running a Tor exit node, and Assange is probably skirting because dude joined Wikileaks. But I'm pretty sure the joining happened *after* the Tor intercept.
2747 2011-05-24 17:34:41 <erbs> maybe. didn't he just release a book? he might discuss it there
2748 2011-05-24 17:34:46 <luke-jr> jgarzik: pushpoold seems to be doing some kind of work caching :x
2749 2011-05-24 17:34:48 MemoryException has joined
2750 2011-05-24 17:34:57 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: yes it does
2751 2011-05-24 17:35:27 <luke-jr> jgarzik: my bitcoind getworks are taking a full 3 seconds consistently, yet pushpoold is returning work in under a second
2752 2011-05-24 17:35:37 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: where is that in the code?
2753 2011-05-24 17:35:39 <midnightmagic> hrm good idea.
2754 2011-05-24 17:35:40 <luke-jr> and how?
2755 2011-05-24 17:36:11 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: looking, i stumbled across it yesterday
2756 2011-05-24 17:36:22 ar4s has joined
2757 2011-05-24 17:36:24 <luke-jr> work is only useful once⦠how could it possibly be cached?
2758 2011-05-24 17:36:44 ar4s has left ()
2759 2011-05-24 17:36:44 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: it caches to verify results it gets back are work it handed out iirc
2760 2011-05-24 17:36:50 <jrmithdobbs> it shouldn't be returning the same work multiple times
2761 2011-05-24 17:37:17 <erbs> assange is awesome.. spying on tor seems like a good way to catch govt corruption
2762 2011-05-24 17:37:27 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2763 2011-05-24 17:37:59 <erbs> in 2006, atty gen. gonzales had a meeting with the nations ISPs and passed around pixellated pics of child pornography as he urged them to retain more network data for longer periods of time
2764 2011-05-24 17:38:22 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: why's your bitcoind taking 3 seconds? do you not use the async-io patches?
2765 2011-05-24 17:38:32 <diki> This piece of code doesnt let pushpoold sen shares
2766 2011-05-24 17:38:33 <diki> if (srv.db_sharelog && srv.db_ops->sharelog != NULL)
2767 2011-05-24 17:38:38 kika_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2768 2011-05-24 17:38:44 kiba has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2769 2011-05-24 17:38:47 <diki> both those can't be NULL
2770 2011-05-24 17:38:57 <diki> if i remove it, everything works like a charm
2771 2011-05-24 17:39:07 <diki> If that's there, no matter how many shares, none are inserted in mysql
2772 2011-05-24 17:40:13 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2773 2011-05-24 17:40:41 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: MySQL is slow
2774 2011-05-24 17:40:46 <midnightmagic> != has higher operator precedence over &&, so db_sharelog is not compared with NULL.
2775 2011-05-24 17:40:54 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: i told you that like a week ago ;P
2776 2011-05-24 17:41:12 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: also, we haven't found a block in about 48 hours
2777 2011-05-24 17:41:57 ar4s has joined
2778 2011-05-24 17:41:58 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2779 2011-05-24 17:42:19 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2780 2011-05-24 17:42:30 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: i'm on crack I can't find what i was thinking of
2781 2011-05-24 17:42:43 <luke-jr> XD
2782 2011-05-24 17:43:05 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: it's not caching it in memcache at least
2783 2011-05-24 17:43:15 <jrmithdobbs> cause i just went through all the code that touches memcache
2784 2011-05-24 17:43:15 <diki> and i am saying it shouldnt null
2785 2011-05-24 17:43:18 <diki> i've defined it
2786 2011-05-24 17:44:01 <jrmithdobbs> diki: have you seriously not figured out that you need "sharelog": true in the db config?
2787 2011-05-24 17:44:41 <diki> oh...
2788 2011-05-24 17:45:02 <jrmithdobbs> diki: thought about telling you that 3 or 4 days ago but figured you would "get" it
2789 2011-05-24 17:45:17 <diki> I still fixed it though
2790 2011-05-24 17:45:21 <jrmithdobbs> no you broke it more
2791 2011-05-24 17:45:26 <diki> How?
2792 2011-05-24 17:45:30 <luke-jr> >_<
2793 2011-05-24 17:45:35 <diki> By removing the code that checks for that true?
2794 2011-05-24 17:45:44 <jrmithdobbs> cause now it'll always try and log to the db even if one's not defined
2795 2011-05-24 17:45:48 <diki> oh yeah, i even fixed the code without knowing
2796 2011-05-24 17:46:02 <mtrlt> you broke it because one configuration option does not work
2797 2011-05-24 17:46:02 <diki> one WILL BE defined
2798 2011-05-24 17:46:04 <mtrlt> :(
2799 2011-05-24 17:46:23 <jrmithdobbs> you introduced a null pointer dereference possibility because you didn't just go look and see what was setting that value
2800 2011-05-24 17:46:42 <diki> may also add that it's not present in the example cfg
2801 2011-05-24 17:46:54 <diki> thus i never could've known
2802 2011-05-24 17:46:57 <jrmithdobbs> it is in one of the pull requests in github
2803 2011-05-24 17:47:06 <jrmithdobbs> yes you could have, it's clearly in the json config parser
2804 2011-05-24 17:47:20 <jrmithdobbs> and after a week you should've read that 4 or 5 times by now at least
2805 2011-05-24 17:47:23 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2806 2011-05-24 17:47:35 <diki> my concern now is for making a blocklog
2807 2011-05-24 17:47:46 <diki> and copy/paste is my friend + some minor changes
2808 2011-05-24 17:48:00 <jrmithdobbs> can't wait for your pool to be up so we can crash it
2809 2011-05-24 17:48:23 <diki> You know what? I am getting pretty angry here atm
2810 2011-05-24 17:48:30 <Sage> xD
2811 2011-05-24 17:48:32 <jrmithdobbs> internet: srs bznz
2812 2011-05-24 17:48:32 <diki> I forbid you to write to me
2813 2011-05-24 17:48:55 dlt has joined
2814 2011-05-24 17:49:05 <Dekbit> great attitude jrm
2815 2011-05-24 17:49:15 <Sage> can someone gently explain to me why my second core is always cooler than the first?
2816 2011-05-24 17:49:25 <diki> Sage: less load?
2817 2011-05-24 17:49:35 <midnightmagic> no need to be mean to the guy.. :(
2818 2011-05-24 17:49:36 <jrmithdobbs> Dekbit: that man should not be writing code involving monetary transactions in any form, i'm not going to hide my distate.
2819 2011-05-24 17:49:38 <Sage> diki: the difference is 98 to 97
2820 2011-05-24 17:49:52 <diki> how cooler in C?
2821 2011-05-24 17:49:52 <Sage> in load and 71 to 68 in temp
2822 2011-05-24 17:50:00 <Dekbit> lol point is everyone has to learn i am sure you didnt know everything you know today when you started a week in
2823 2011-05-24 17:50:07 <Dekbit> each core is going to be slightly different just do to manufacturing variance
2824 2011-05-24 17:50:19 <Dekbit> could be the other way around in a different machine
2825 2011-05-24 17:50:22 <jrmithdobbs> Dekbit: but i didn't try and touch financials software as my first c project either.
2826 2011-05-24 17:50:30 <Dekbit> true enough
2827 2011-05-24 17:50:46 <diki> And my first php project was a torrent tracker
2828 2011-05-24 17:50:53 <diki> i hopped right in without reading about php
2829 2011-05-24 17:50:58 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2830 2011-05-24 17:51:01 <Sage> mine was eshop :D
2831 2011-05-24 17:51:14 <bradmills> hey guys - does Gavin Andresen hang out in here?
2832 2011-05-24 17:51:17 kreal- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2833 2011-05-24 17:51:33 paul_nicholson has joined
2834 2011-05-24 17:51:39 pnicholson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2835 2011-05-24 17:51:40 paul_nicholson is now known as pnicholson
2836 2011-05-24 17:52:43 <Sage> how can people love the sun.. its keeps fucking up my rigs temp -.-
2837 2011-05-24 17:52:58 <gmaxwell> bradmills: yes, he's here sometimes.
2838 2011-05-24 17:53:37 <dlt> someone knows where can i find some documentation about miner algorithms?
2839 2011-05-24 17:53:50 <Ramen> cause without the sung you will have nothing to eat lol
2840 2011-05-24 17:53:52 <Sage> dig dig dig dig dig
2841 2011-05-24 17:54:00 <Ramen> sha256
2842 2011-05-24 17:54:01 <jrmithdobbs> Dekbit: it also doesn't help my attitude that he's been told about 50 times that what he's trying to implement is already recorded in the shares log and he just doesn't understand the code well enough to figure out how it's represented
2843 2011-05-24 17:54:02 <diki> i also hate the sun
2844 2011-05-24 17:54:04 <Sage> oh ramen, dont go so literal on me
2845 2011-05-24 17:54:10 <jrmithdobbs> Dekbit: ;P
2846 2011-05-24 17:54:26 <Ramen> hows your rig going sage?
2847 2011-05-24 17:54:46 <Ramen> wasn't it at 80 yesterday?
2848 2011-05-24 17:56:09 pyros1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2849 2011-05-24 17:56:16 <diki> jrm: Disregarding my "forbid". I'd rather use pre-existing code to achieve what i want than parsing with regular expressions the file in search for my hahs
2850 2011-05-24 17:56:18 <diki> *hash
2851 2011-05-24 17:56:46 pyros1 has joined
2852 2011-05-24 17:57:03 <diki> so i basically don't need the shares.log as it's taking space and a toll to the hdd
2853 2011-05-24 17:57:09 qba has quit ()
2854 2011-05-24 17:57:12 <Dekbit> lol i hear ya
2855 2011-05-24 17:57:31 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2856 2011-05-24 17:57:38 <jrmithdobbs> diki: SELECT solution FROM shares WHERE upstream_result NOT NULL;
2857 2011-05-24 17:57:47 <jrmithdobbs> diki: no grepping involved
2858 2011-05-24 17:58:58 <jrmithdobbs> diki: SELECT solution FROM shares WHERE upstream_result='Y'; will get you the actual successfull blocks, the former will just get you the ones it tried to send to bitcoind (both rejected and accepted)
2859 2011-05-24 17:59:14 <diki> so you want me to actually make two queries?
2860 2011-05-24 17:59:28 <diki> Listen to me before you write...
2861 2011-05-24 17:59:36 <jrmithdobbs> the two queries serve two different purposes depending on what you're looking for?
2862 2011-05-24 17:59:40 <gjs278> diki I will shoot a rocket launcher at you
2863 2011-05-24 18:00:05 <diki> When the pool finds a block it displays applog(LOG_INFO, "PROOF-OF-WORK found");
2864 2011-05-24 18:00:09 <Sage> sry ramen, a bit afk
2865 2011-05-24 18:00:13 <jrmithdobbs> diki: if you don't care about the shares data turn off the option that drops it to artificial difficulty levels and have it spit the real difficulty at your miners
2866 2011-05-24 18:00:15 TD has joined
2867 2011-05-24 18:00:31 <jrmithdobbs> diki: then the only thing in the shares log will be shares submitted to bitcoind
2868 2011-05-24 18:00:34 <diki> after that line i will create a function to calculate the block hash from the solution which is hexstr
2869 2011-05-24 18:00:45 <diki> rather, use the pre-existing function
2870 2011-05-24 18:00:55 <diki> But make my own to isnert the block in the blocks table i have prepared
2871 2011-05-24 18:01:02 <diki> *insert
2872 2011-05-24 18:01:03 <Sage> ramen: its holding up so much better now, i bought 23cm fan, now it faces the card and i have 70°C on first and 68ËC on
2873 2011-05-24 18:01:13 eamon has quit ()
2874 2011-05-24 18:01:20 <Sage> ramen: second... it may go a bit lower, because i opened the balcony and the sun stopped finally shining
2875 2011-05-24 18:01:47 <diki> that select you are speaking of...i can do it server-side i.e via php, but then that means i will have to make two queries..one for select and one for inserting
2876 2011-05-24 18:01:50 <jrmithdobbs> diki: why a whole separate table? just add a block_number column to the db without a NOT NULL constraint and populate it on success from bitcoind
2877 2011-05-24 18:01:53 <diki> This way i insert only ONE
2878 2011-05-24 18:01:59 dlt has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2879 2011-05-24 18:02:06 <diki> it's called organizing
2880 2011-05-24 18:02:11 <jrmithdobbs> diki: and duplicate huge chunks of code for no reason instead, that makes perfect sense.
2881 2011-05-24 18:02:18 <diki> SELECT blah FROM blah LEFT JOIN...
2882 2011-05-24 18:02:31 <diki> Where do you see a dupe in my logic?
2883 2011-05-24 18:02:32 ahbritto_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2884 2011-05-24 18:02:36 <Namegduf> diki: Are you familiar with the use of functions?
2885 2011-05-24 18:02:40 <jrmithdobbs> diki: select block_number from shares where block_number not null;
2886 2011-05-24 18:02:48 <diki> This is purely for creating a stats page
2887 2011-05-24 18:02:52 <jrmithdobbs> diki: or the basic concepts of an rdbms?
2888 2011-05-24 18:02:57 <jrmithdobbs> (no, and no)
2889 2011-05-24 18:03:01 <gjs278> diki I will shoot a rocket launcher at you
2890 2011-05-24 18:03:04 <Namegduf> I don't care what it's for
2891 2011-05-24 18:03:13 <Namegduf> If you have code duplication of identical code
2892 2011-05-24 18:03:14 <diki> if it wasn't for this cultural difference...
2893 2011-05-24 18:03:15 <Namegduf> Use a function
2894 2011-05-24 18:03:24 <bradmills> gmaxwell - what nickname does Gavin Andresen go by?
2895 2011-05-24 18:03:24 <diki> i would've explained everything in a gip..
2896 2011-05-24 18:03:32 <gjs278> gaesteve
2897 2011-05-24 18:03:32 <diki> *or jip or whatever
2898 2011-05-24 18:03:35 <gjs278> something like that
2899 2011-05-24 18:03:40 <jrmithdobbs> diki: YOU ARE REIMPLEMENTING FUNCTIONALITY THAT ALREADY EXISTS FOR NO PURPOSE AND OPENING YOURSELF UP TO UNFORSEEN ISSUES
2900 2011-05-24 18:04:04 gdoteof has joined
2901 2011-05-24 18:04:08 <jrmithdobbs> if you don't understand this, there is no helping you
2902 2011-05-24 18:04:23 <ersi> jrmithdobbs: Ignore him, he's a troll
2903 2011-05-24 18:04:36 <diki> Jrmith-i know what i am doing
2904 2011-05-24 18:04:44 <ersi> No, you don't.
2905 2011-05-24 18:04:47 <jrmithdobbs> you're pretty clearly shown you don't
2906 2011-05-24 18:04:48 <diki> Proof?
2907 2011-05-24 18:04:52 <jrmithdobbs> s/you're/you've/
2908 2011-05-24 18:05:04 <diki> when i say i do, that means i do
2909 2011-05-24 18:05:09 <jrmithdobbs> 12:41 < diki> and copy/paste is my friend + some minor changes
2910 2011-05-24 18:05:11 <jrmithdobbs> proof provided
2911 2011-05-24 18:05:23 <diki> either that or branching code in sharelog
2912 2011-05-24 18:05:41 <diki> i prefer a new function...speed won't decrease either
2913 2011-05-24 18:05:45 <jrmithdobbs> you don't need to do either. the sharelog functionality already logs everything you need except the block number
2914 2011-05-24 18:05:45 <diki> as blocks wont be found that fast
2915 2011-05-24 18:05:59 <jrmithdobbs> just modify sharelog to log the block number if upstream_result = 'Y'
2916 2011-05-24 18:06:06 <jrmithdobbs> at insert time
2917 2011-05-24 18:06:30 <diki> when a block is found it will insert the share in it's raw form with upstream_result = Y
2918 2011-05-24 18:06:54 <diki> instead of doing SELECT blahblah i can insert the block in the blocks table at find time
2919 2011-05-24 18:07:03 <diki> reducing the need for any other quries done via php etc
2920 2011-05-24 18:07:06 brunner has joined
2921 2011-05-24 18:07:20 <jrmithdobbs> you still have to query that second table ...
2922 2011-05-24 18:07:31 <jrmithdobbs> you do not understand how databases work or their purpose
2923 2011-05-24 18:07:33 <diki> yes, INSERT INTO...
2924 2011-05-24 18:07:56 <jrmithdobbs> you can't pull the data out with an insert, so if you're ever displaying it you have to select either way
2925 2011-05-24 18:07:58 <diki> your method requires i do SELECT blah blah... then insert into blocks..
2926 2011-05-24 18:08:10 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2927 2011-05-24 18:08:12 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.2,"low":6.96,"vol":14015,"buy":7.021,"sell":7.11,"last":7.0201}}
2928 2011-05-24 18:08:12 <diki> my method directly inserts when a block is ofund
2929 2011-05-24 18:08:15 <diki> *found
2930 2011-05-24 18:08:23 <jrmithdobbs> and select * from dikis_stupid_block_table; is no more efficient than select block_number from shares where block_number not null;
2931 2011-05-24 18:08:40 <diki> and recalculate the 80 bytes to a valid block hash?
2932 2011-05-24 18:08:43 <diki> =slow
2933 2011-05-24 18:09:00 <diki> because pushpool inserts a share, not the valid block hahs
2934 2011-05-24 18:09:03 <diki> *hash
2935 2011-05-24 18:09:17 eternal1 has joined
2936 2011-05-24 18:09:30 <diki> that means when fetching the data for my stats page i have to calculate the hash
2937 2011-05-24 18:09:33 <jrmithdobbs> a) that is subsecond so not slow, and b) if you're really worried about, like i said, calculate the blockhash/number on insert in the sharelog function when upstream_result = 'Y' at insert time
2938 2011-05-24 18:09:52 <jrmithdobbs> and just add a damned column to the table
2939 2011-05-24 18:10:03 <diki> Did i also mention that i will be truncating the shares table at every round?
2940 2011-05-24 18:10:05 <diki> *every new round
2941 2011-05-24 18:10:23 <diki> mysql isn't designed for holding billions of rows
2942 2011-05-24 18:10:27 <jrmithdobbs> you are doomed to failure if you think not keeping proof of work around is acceptable
2943 2011-05-24 18:10:28 <diki> it needs to be cleaned up...
2944 2011-05-24 18:10:45 Insti has joined
2945 2011-05-24 18:10:54 <diki> at avg a mere 500,000 rows will be inserted per block
2946 2011-05-24 18:11:03 <diki> that is just for a ONE block
2947 2011-05-24 18:11:06 <jrmithdobbs> mere is the correct word there
2948 2011-05-24 18:11:11 <jrmithdobbs> even though you meant it sarcastically
2949 2011-05-24 18:11:18 <diki> do you think mysql can hold more and more?
2950 2011-05-24 18:11:23 <jrmithdobbs> use postgres and learn how to partition tables
2951 2011-05-24 18:11:28 dnicoin has joined
2952 2011-05-24 18:11:29 <jrmithdobbs> seriously, you just flat don't know what you're doing
2953 2011-05-24 18:11:53 <dnicoin> anyone compiled bitcoin-0.3.22rc3.app for Mac, yet? care to share the binary?
2954 2011-05-24 18:11:57 <diki> I think i can do better than you
2955 2011-05-24 18:12:10 <jrmithdobbs> and innodb has no problems handling multi-billion row tables with data like this
2956 2011-05-24 18:12:26 <diki> the features in deepbit,slush dont even come close to what i will do
2957 2011-05-24 18:12:31 <diki> for the frontend
2958 2011-05-24 18:12:47 <Pilate> $20 says you never come close
2959 2011-05-24 18:12:50 <jrmithdobbs> just let us know the url when you're done so we can keep taking it down for you.
2960 2011-05-24 18:12:58 <gjs278> that's an impossible bet to make
2961 2011-05-24 18:13:02 <gjs278> diki will keep going until he dies
2962 2011-05-24 18:13:14 <ersi> diki: If you're so fucking great, just do what you're saying you want to do and come back and show us
2963 2011-05-24 18:13:37 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2964 2011-05-24 18:13:43 <gjs278> diki is a criminal mastermind
2965 2011-05-24 18:13:43 eternal1 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2966 2011-05-24 18:13:48 <diki> I am not saying i am great, but i can and will do the things that i want, my way ofc.
2967 2011-05-24 18:14:01 <diki> result = success
2968 2011-05-24 18:14:20 <ersi> So, I'm taking bets - about diki and his project. State your bets.
2969 2011-05-24 18:14:44 <Pilate> $10 on never seen again after 30 days
2970 2011-05-24 18:14:47 <ersi> diki: I think that the only thing you're capable of is writing bullshit
2971 2011-05-24 18:14:52 ArtForzZz has joined
2972 2011-05-24 18:15:01 <gmaxwell> Bets in BTC please.
2973 2011-05-24 18:15:42 <diki> If i was a native, speaking english i could've explained everything way better thus you would only makes yourselves fools
2974 2011-05-24 18:16:07 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2975 2011-05-24 18:16:15 <ersi> I'm not nagging on your ability to write bullshit.
2976 2011-05-24 18:16:16 <diki> but i am not a native, nor is my English good
2977 2011-05-24 18:16:18 <mtrlt> :(
2978 2011-05-24 18:16:28 <diki> you guys just dont understand...
2979 2011-05-24 18:16:41 <mtrlt> usually people who talk, don't do. people who do, don't talk
2980 2011-05-24 18:16:44 <ersi> Well, I do. And it seems like jrmithdobbs do aswell.
2981 2011-05-24 18:17:03 <diki> 99% of the people who say they understand me, usually dont
2982 2011-05-24 18:17:51 <dnicoin> what is the story of our friend the emokid here?
2983 2011-05-24 18:18:14 <jrmithdobbs> diki: i don't think you understand the liability you're opening yourself up to by reimplementing existing features in broken ways.
2984 2011-05-24 18:18:14 <diki> I prefer if you dont refer to me as emokid
2985 2011-05-24 18:18:19 <bradmills> dnicoin bitcoinmining.com has an article on mac software
2986 2011-05-24 18:18:23 ArtForzZy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2987 2011-05-24 18:18:29 <jrmithdobbs> diki: i'll stop being a dick about it, but seriously, you need to reconsider your path.
2988 2011-05-24 18:19:02 <ersi> diki: Show proof111! show prof!
2989 2011-05-24 18:19:11 <diki> jrm: Let me hear your suggestions
2990 2011-05-24 18:19:14 Blitzboom has joined
2991 2011-05-24 18:19:14 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
2992 2011-05-24 18:19:14 Blitzboom has joined
2993 2011-05-24 18:19:33 <diki> I say i don't want to parse the shares.log file-one of your suggestions went to poop now
2994 2011-05-24 18:19:39 <Sage> its my first serious day of mining and im beginning to like it
2995 2011-05-24 18:19:52 <jrmithdobbs> diki: considering it's taken you a week to figure out how to get pushpoold to record shares to the db, and only then because you were told, you are obviously fighting an upwards battle.
2996 2011-05-24 18:19:53 <ersi> Sage: Congratulations :]
2997 2011-05-24 18:20:08 <jrmithdobbs> s/upwards/uphill/
2998 2011-05-24 18:20:10 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
2999 2011-05-24 18:20:18 <diki> it took me long cause, better error handling was needed
3000 2011-05-24 18:20:21 <dnicoin> bradmills: thanks. I saw that earlier, and I'm using that now. I was just curious about the rc3 of the official client. but I don't want to compile myself. (as using the clients described in that article would suggest.)
3001 2011-05-24 18:20:24 <diki> which i implemented MYSELF
3002 2011-05-24 18:20:24 <jrmithdobbs> diki: i did not once suggest you parse the shares.log
3003 2011-05-24 18:20:50 <jrmithdobbs> diki: keep proving you don't understand the code you're modifying.
3004 2011-05-24 18:21:16 <diki> jgarzik did not add mysql_stmt_error to his code
3005 2011-05-24 18:21:23 <Sage> thank you ersi, its mostly because of this chat that makes me truly enjoy the power of p2p and internet itself :D
3006 2011-05-24 18:21:25 <diki> when i added it, an error message appeared
3007 2011-05-24 18:21:33 <diki> Which "told" me the problem and i fixed it
3008 2011-05-24 18:21:38 agricocb has joined
3009 2011-05-24 18:21:53 <ersi> Sage: Hopefully you'll stay around and enjoy yourself, both here and with Bitcoins for a long time :]
3010 2011-05-24 18:21:58 <diki> the error was that two of my fields did not accept NULL values
3011 2011-05-24 18:22:09 <ersi> diki: Wow dude, that's revolutionary!
3012 2011-05-24 18:22:12 <diki> i fixed that and the code worked
3013 2011-05-24 18:22:15 <Sage> oh ersi, you are just the best... i wish internet was filled more with people like you :)
3014 2011-05-24 18:22:32 <jrmithdobbs> diki: good luck.
3015 2011-05-24 18:23:00 <ersi> Sage: :] What comes around, goes around
3016 2011-05-24 18:23:05 <dnicoin> seems I need a irc client with emo-filter to stay in here. brb from another client.
3017 2011-05-24 18:23:08 dnicoin has left ()
3018 2011-05-24 18:23:16 <ersi> Hah
3019 2011-05-24 18:23:23 <Sage> ersi: yea, im not that good english speaker to understand that :D
3020 2011-05-24 18:23:54 <erbs> coinmeup
3021 2011-05-24 18:23:54 <jrmithdobbs> Sage: aka karma
3022 2011-05-24 18:23:58 <ersi> Means something like, "Treat someone nicely, and they'll treat you nicely"~~
3023 2011-05-24 18:24:15 <ersi> Or vice versa/the other way around as well
3024 2011-05-24 18:24:26 qwebirc13765 has joined
3025 2011-05-24 18:24:33 <diki> ersi: Meaning with your attitude towards me, i should behave the same way
3026 2011-05-24 18:24:33 qwebirc13765 has quit (Client Quit)
3027 2011-05-24 18:24:41 <diki> towards you
3028 2011-05-24 18:24:49 <diki> What comes around, goes around
3029 2011-05-24 18:24:57 Lachesis has joined
3030 2011-05-24 18:25:02 <Sage> diki: thats not the true message of the saying tbh
3031 2011-05-24 18:25:03 <ersi> Well, you do. Besides the part with writing anything that isn't total nonsense.
3032 2011-05-24 18:25:28 <Sage> ersi: its good to read some nice and warm things after a whole day of failing :)
3033 2011-05-24 18:25:34 <diki> I really see no problem with my code. It will work as effectively as any other
3034 2011-05-24 18:25:43 <jrmithdobbs> so it looks like mining is about to take a big dump in profitability
3035 2011-05-24 18:26:01 <BitterTea> Anybody using BitcoinJ?
3036 2011-05-24 18:26:03 <ersi> Sage: Learning by failing is some of the best ways of learning :)
3037 2011-05-24 18:26:12 <ersi> And I'm sure diki's going to fail a lot :P
3038 2011-05-24 18:26:19 <jrmithdobbs> haha
3039 2011-05-24 18:26:19 <Sage> ROFL
3040 2011-05-24 18:26:37 <erbs> i just bitcoined
3041 2011-05-24 18:26:38 <ersi> The question is if he's actually going to learn anything from it
3042 2011-05-24 18:26:40 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: but he wont learn from it... so just wasted time, really
3043 2011-05-24 18:26:57 <ersi> Yeah, he's solo-mining in a world of super high difficulty
3044 2011-05-24 18:26:57 <erbs> chipotle is now accepting bitcoins for burritos
3045 2011-05-24 18:27:12 <Sage> really?
3046 2011-05-24 18:27:14 <diki> who said i was solo-mining?
3047 2011-05-24 18:27:26 <jrmithdobbs> erbs: ?
3048 2011-05-24 18:27:27 <diki> Feeding false information?
3049 2011-05-24 18:27:34 <Sage> diki, it was a metaphore
3050 2011-05-24 18:27:35 <diki> I don't like that...
3051 2011-05-24 18:27:47 <ersi> Well, poolmining with a bunch of CPU's then
3052 2011-05-24 18:27:53 <diki> proof?
3053 2011-05-24 18:27:59 <diki> My CPU is as idle as it can get
3054 2011-05-24 18:28:01 <ersi> There we go, covered all methaphorical bases \:D/
3055 2011-05-24 18:28:08 <TD> BitterTea: you mean, apart from me? :-)
3056 2011-05-24 18:28:13 <ersi> Your CPU in this case would be your.. brain.
3057 2011-05-24 18:28:17 <Sage> my cpu load is 35%
3058 2011-05-24 18:28:19 <ersi> And it's probably idle, yes.
3059 2011-05-24 18:28:21 gwelymernan has joined
3060 2011-05-24 18:28:47 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: no it's at 100% capacity and his runqueue is quite backed up
3061 2011-05-24 18:28:48 <Sage> and by cpu
3062 2011-05-24 18:28:49 <Sage> i mean cpu
3063 2011-05-24 18:28:50 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: obviously
3064 2011-05-24 18:29:09 <ersi> Ah, yes. Thanks for straigthening out that metaphor
3065 2011-05-24 18:29:26 <ersi> diki: retort? proof?
3066 2011-05-24 18:29:37 Clarence has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3067 2011-05-24 18:29:39 <jrmithdobbs> also, this is like beating up on a 5yo because he didn't understand a bit of that
3068 2011-05-24 18:29:47 <diki> I am leavig now. But i am just going to say this: If you guys were near me. You would be going home with swollen faces
3069 2011-05-24 18:29:47 <BitterTea> TD: I'm trying to use BitcoinJ to claim a private key (Bitbills) and I'm having problems.
3070 2011-05-24 18:29:53 <mtrlt> lol
3071 2011-05-24 18:29:53 <Sage> may i ask how much are your cpus working? i have 2,8ghz amd x6
3072 2011-05-24 18:29:55 <TD> ok
3073 2011-05-24 18:29:57 <mtrlt> LOL.
3074 2011-05-24 18:29:58 <mtrlt> :)
3075 2011-05-24 18:29:58 <TD> what's the problem ?
3076 2011-05-24 18:30:05 <diki> now goodbye
3077 2011-05-24 18:30:05 <ersi> diki: Hah, can't handle words? Too big for words? :)
3078 2011-05-24 18:30:08 <ersi> diki: Bye!
3079 2011-05-24 18:30:09 <jrmithdobbs> /topic diki: #bitcoin-dev's official internet tough guy
3080 2011-05-24 18:30:20 diki has quit ()
3081 2011-05-24 18:30:22 <BitterTea> Well, just one problem really. After downloading the block chain, the tx spending to this key doesn't appear in the unspent map
3082 2011-05-24 18:30:28 <erbs> are my coins delicious enough
3083 2011-05-24 18:30:30 <ersi> Ahhhh~
3084 2011-05-24 18:30:37 <ersi> My mind is now at ease.
3085 2011-05-24 18:30:40 <TD> could you pastebin your code? you can fiddle the private key obviously
3086 2011-05-24 18:30:51 <TD> and blockexplorer the public key ?
3087 2011-05-24 18:31:03 <BitterTea> This is using the PrivateKeys.java example
3088 2011-05-24 18:31:05 diki has joined
3089 2011-05-24 18:31:07 <TD> i've used it to claim coins given a private key before, but didn't test it for a while
3090 2011-05-24 18:31:09 <diki> hmm
3091 2011-05-24 18:31:11 <BitterTea> http://blockexplorer.com/address/1JUjbTHp4ki6LFPFHYtC8isdteku5N7ZSG
3092 2011-05-24 18:31:12 <TD> maybe we broke something
3093 2011-05-24 18:31:24 <diki> too bad, that /topic was good
3094 2011-05-24 18:31:33 diki has quit (Client Quit)
3095 2011-05-24 18:31:53 <Sage> i dont have one coin :(
3096 2011-05-24 18:31:56 <midnightmagic> i don't think we need to be mean to people, folks. :)
3097 2011-05-24 18:32:05 <BitterTea> I'm DLing the chain now with a breakpoint in BlockChain.add, so I can see the transactions before they are discarded
3098 2011-05-24 18:32:08 <TD> BitterTea: what form do you get the private key in? how long is it ?
3099 2011-05-24 18:32:33 <BitterTea> I believe it's base58 encoded
3100 2011-05-24 18:32:48 <BitterTea> There are no problems creating an ECKey from the string
3101 2011-05-24 18:33:25 <TD> how many characters is it ?
3102 2011-05-24 18:33:28 <BitterTea> It "works" fine, it just thinks there's a 0 balance in the wallet
3103 2011-05-24 18:33:37 <TD> yeah
3104 2011-05-24 18:33:46 <TD> ok, let me take a quick look
3105 2011-05-24 18:33:50 <BitterTea> 51 characters
3106 2011-05-24 18:34:07 <ersi> Sage: Aww, but you'll get one! Sooner or later :)
3107 2011-05-24 18:34:11 <BitterTea> It's quite possible I'm missing something blindingly obvious :)
3108 2011-05-24 18:34:24 <TD> ok, sounds about right
3109 2011-05-24 18:34:33 <TD> i presume it prints out the right address when it starts/
3110 2011-05-24 18:35:43 <Sage> ersi: i tried mining with gtx460se at 38mhs.. so i have a balance of 0,27btc :D
3111 2011-05-24 18:35:48 <TD> if so then i guess we broke it. i'll try and test it with one of my own keys tonight
3112 2011-05-24 18:36:02 <erbs> taste the crainbrow
3113 2011-05-24 18:36:13 vorlov has joined
3114 2011-05-24 18:36:16 <ersi> Sage: Getting close :]
3115 2011-05-24 18:36:30 SanguineRose has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3116 2011-05-24 18:37:10 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
3117 2011-05-24 18:37:13 <Sage> ersi: according to my pools webside, i have 0,4 btc waiting for me there... but i have to turn the pc off for the night because of the noise
3118 2011-05-24 18:37:30 <Ramen> lol that bad?
3119 2011-05-24 18:37:34 <ersi> ah, but you can continue whenever.
3120 2011-05-24 18:37:42 <Ramen> how long did it take you to get .4?
3121 2011-05-24 18:38:02 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3122 2011-05-24 18:38:15 <TD> BitterTea: so the key definitely turns into the correct address?
3123 2011-05-24 18:38:33 <erbs> there was a guy who lost a few thousand in btc
3124 2011-05-24 18:38:41 <BitterTea> Didn't check that, give me a sec
3125 2011-05-24 18:38:44 <Ramen> lol
3126 2011-05-24 18:38:50 <Ramen> how do you lose it?
3127 2011-05-24 18:38:56 <Ramen> lost the wallet.dat?
3128 2011-05-24 18:38:59 <BitterTea> TD: Do you use IntelliJ by any chance?
3129 2011-05-24 18:39:05 <TD> yeah
3130 2011-05-24 18:39:08 <TD> why?
3131 2011-05-24 18:39:10 <Sage> ersi: but the difficulty will ruin the mining time :(
3132 2011-05-24 18:39:16 <BitterTea> I'm used to Visual Studio... is there any way to "set this line as the next to execute"?
3133 2011-05-24 18:39:34 <TD> you mean "run to cursor"?
3134 2011-05-24 18:39:35 <ersi> Sage: Well, it might come down later - depends on if people keep on rushing mining
3135 2011-05-24 18:39:37 <Ramen> Sage: how long did it take you to get .4?
3136 2011-05-24 18:39:39 tauri has joined
3137 2011-05-24 18:39:49 <BitterTea> In VS, run to cursor only goes forward, I mean to go backward
3138 2011-05-24 18:40:09 <TD> go backwards? you mean actually rewind the state of the program?
3139 2011-05-24 18:40:21 <Sage> ramen: tbh i have no idea... i was semi-mining since yesterday, but my pc kept crashing, so maybe 3-4 hours
3140 2011-05-24 18:40:48 <Ramen> yeah it's like some new VS feature lol i saw it get demoed with the foundation thing
3141 2011-05-24 18:40:52 <Sage> ersi: few days ago i saw network at 2,2ths... now its 3,6
3142 2011-05-24 18:41:02 Raccoon has quit ()
3143 2011-05-24 18:41:12 <ersi> Sage: Some might give up and it might get lower :p
3144 2011-05-24 18:41:16 <TD> i don't think it's possible. if it is i didn't try it out yet :-)
3145 2011-05-24 18:41:19 <BitterTea> Yeah, .Net lets you do that, it can be useful in debugging
3146 2011-05-24 18:41:35 <Sage> ersi: on the other hand with more people the currency is more secure.. right?
3147 2011-05-24 18:41:37 <ersi> Sage: And there's other ways to earn Bitcoins. I'm available for sysadmin consulting work for example :)
3148 2011-05-24 18:41:43 * TD uses printf style debugging mostly ;)
3149 2011-05-24 18:41:44 <BitterTea> It doesn't actually rewind the state, just lets you set the next line of execution in a blck
3150 2011-05-24 18:41:46 <ersi> Not necessarily
3151 2011-05-24 18:41:47 <TD> ah ok
3152 2011-05-24 18:41:53 vikarti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3153 2011-05-24 18:41:56 <TD> i've seen the jvm resume from the start of a function if it's edited
3154 2011-05-24 18:42:02 <Ramen> I don't think it's going down.... not for a while... I just want 30 bucks to pay for my electric bill and i'm happy lol
3155 2011-05-24 18:42:02 <TD> i don't know how to trigger that from the gui
3156 2011-05-24 18:42:10 <grbgout> Does anyone know the URL or title for the video that used to be on bitcoin.org/index.php? The five minute talk Gavin Andresen gave.
3157 2011-05-24 18:42:47 <ersi> But it's strong and you'd have to have a bitching network to overcome 50%
3158 2011-05-24 18:42:47 <Sage> ersi: tell me more
3159 2011-05-24 18:43:07 <ersi> If you were suddenly wanting to reverse a payment, that is
3160 2011-05-24 18:43:08 <erbs> someone lost tens of K of btc if i recall
3161 2011-05-24 18:43:32 <Ramen> how do you lose it?
3162 2011-05-24 18:43:39 <TD> delete the wallet by accident
3163 2011-05-24 18:43:42 <TD> i've seen it happen too
3164 2011-05-24 18:43:49 eoss has joined
3165 2011-05-24 18:43:58 * TD wonders how many coins have been totally lost by now
3166 2011-05-24 18:44:02 <jrmithdobbs> some day people will learn backups really do matter
3167 2011-05-24 18:44:14 <jrmithdobbs> no they wont, who am I kidding
3168 2011-05-24 18:44:16 <TD> backups aren't enough. you have to test the backups worked
3169 2011-05-24 18:44:18 <Sage> whoa, stable 69°C #1 and 67°C #2... nice clean line in afterburner :D
3170 2011-05-24 18:44:19 <erbs> probably their computer melted down
3171 2011-05-24 18:44:19 <erbs> dunno
3172 2011-05-24 18:44:29 <jrmithdobbs> TD: yup.
3173 2011-05-24 18:44:37 <TD> BitterTea: first thing is to check that the first line printed by the program matches the address you gave me
3174 2011-05-24 18:44:43 <ersi> ;;bc,stats
3175 2011-05-24 18:44:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126390 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 617 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 8 hours, 33 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 405533.74523509
3176 2011-05-24 18:44:45 <TD> if it does, then you're using it right and the only possibility left is a bug
3177 2011-05-24 18:44:54 <TD> probably i introduced one in all the recent changes to the wallet/block chain handling for re-orgs
3178 2011-05-24 18:44:58 <jrmithdobbs> down to 2 days from 3 days this morning
3179 2011-05-24 18:45:00 <jrmithdobbs> jesus
3180 2011-05-24 18:45:07 <mtrlt> hehe
3181 2011-05-24 18:45:13 SanguineRose has joined
3182 2011-05-24 18:45:13 <mtrlt> awesome times for bitcoin
3183 2011-05-24 18:45:42 <Sage> but if you wont be able to use it, it will lose its power more quickly than it gained
3184 2011-05-24 18:46:28 <Ramen> sage did you down clock the mem?
3185 2011-05-24 18:46:39 Raccoon has joined
3186 2011-05-24 18:46:55 <erbs> solo miners are constantly losing their share of the network as new users come on the block... otoh, pools are constantly increasing their share because roughly the same % of new miners will join them
3187 2011-05-24 18:46:56 <Sage> ramen: i tried, yesterday it worked just fine, but today it crashed every time i touched it
3188 2011-05-24 18:47:08 <erbs> so if you're a major solo miner, you should have a pool too
3189 2011-05-24 18:47:39 <Sage> we all should have pools
3190 2011-05-24 18:47:41 <Sage> i love swimming
3191 2011-05-24 18:47:51 <Ramen> i only like big pools
3192 2011-05-24 18:47:55 <Ramen> 100 M +
3193 2011-05-24 18:47:58 Raccoon has quit (Client Quit)
3194 2011-05-24 18:48:05 <mtrlt> mean 100 G? :P
3195 2011-05-24 18:48:21 <Sage> maybe he meant people
3196 2011-05-24 18:48:23 <Ramen> no unless bitcoin blows up and magically gives me 100g
3197 2011-05-24 18:48:26 <mtrlt> lol
3198 2011-05-24 18:48:37 <BitterTea> TD: It might be a problem with the encoding...
3199 2011-05-24 18:48:40 justmoon has joined
3200 2011-05-24 18:49:02 <TD> you don't get the right address ?
3201 2011-05-24 18:49:12 <erbs> snacktronic
3202 2011-05-24 18:49:15 mosimo has joined
3203 2011-05-24 18:49:23 * TD hopes the bitbills guy actually tested this part
3204 2011-05-24 18:49:38 <erbs> etsy.com is now accepting bitcoins
3205 2011-05-24 18:50:28 <Sage> can anyone help me with downclocking memory? i mean can i downclock it while mining or should i completely clear the gpu before doing anyhitng?
3206 2011-05-24 18:50:31 <BitterTea> I don't, but I'm not jumping to the conclusion that it's llama's fault :)
3207 2011-05-24 18:50:44 <midnightmagic> you can do overclocking while mining is going on.
3208 2011-05-24 18:51:20 <Sage> i do have stable 69°C now so i might give it a try
3209 2011-05-24 18:51:28 <Sage> tho i dont want to destroy the card or something
3210 2011-05-24 18:51:45 <erbs> how much $ does the current hashrate represent, in terms of $'s of GPU hardware necessary to mine at that rate
3211 2011-05-24 18:51:46 <mtrlt> Sage: just downclock it while mining
3212 2011-05-24 18:52:05 <TD> hmm
3213 2011-05-24 18:52:08 <mtrlt> Sage: for me, changing the clocks doesn't even work if poclbm isn't on :p
3214 2011-05-24 18:52:10 <Sage> mtrlt: last time i tried it the pc froze
3215 2011-05-24 18:52:15 <TD> hal had difficulties encoding his private key the first time as well
3216 2011-05-24 18:52:16 <mtrlt> maybe you put it too low
3217 2011-05-24 18:52:26 <TD> do you know how llama extracted and encoded the private keys ?
3218 2011-05-24 18:52:55 <Sage> possible, but it kept crashing every time i changed it today, dunno why
3219 2011-05-24 18:52:55 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3220 2011-05-24 18:53:04 <Sage> yesterday it worked on 400mhz with no problems
3221 2011-05-24 18:53:23 <Sage> today after setting the same it distorted the screen then froze
3222 2011-05-24 18:53:38 <Sage> same with 625mh
3223 2011-05-24 18:53:42 Raccoon has joined
3224 2011-05-24 18:54:11 <Sage> then i stopped playing with it, it took me fair amount of time to get the pc working properly
3225 2011-05-24 18:54:16 <Namegduf> Why not just stop changing shit
3226 2011-05-24 18:54:17 <Sage> even catalyst wont start now without crashing
3227 2011-05-24 18:54:31 <Namegduf> How much are you *gaining* from this tinkering away from stock?
3228 2011-05-24 18:54:47 <Sage> Namegduf im downclocking it, not overclocking
3229 2011-05-24 18:54:54 <BitterTea> TD: I don't, I assumed it was base58, but I double checked the output of the barcode scan and it seems fine
3230 2011-05-24 18:54:55 <Namegduf> Sage: Then don't!
3231 2011-05-24 18:55:03 <Namegduf> It clearly doesn't like being downclocked, so stop downclocking it
3232 2011-05-24 18:55:11 <Ramen> from what i see online you gain like 10% hash and like 10-20% less power consumption
3233 2011-05-24 18:55:16 <Sage> i want lower temps, yesterday it was at 85
3234 2011-05-24 18:55:20 <BitterTea> The site says to use sipa's key import/export patch
3235 2011-05-24 18:55:29 <grbgout> Well, this is the video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koIq58UoNfE , but it's not the exact link that used to be on index.php
3236 2011-05-24 18:55:42 <Namegduf> Sage: Then don't complain if your unsupported hackery causes it to stop working? It doesn't work on all cards, it's not supposed to work
3237 2011-05-24 18:56:10 <Namegduf> The only thing guaranteed to work is stock, if tinkering breaks it you just need to accept those settings do not work on your card.
3238 2011-05-24 18:56:13 <BitterTea> That might be it... http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=3906.0
3239 2011-05-24 18:56:20 <Namegduf> This channel isn't going to magically make it all better
3240 2011-05-24 18:56:42 <Sage> Namegduf: it worked just fine yesterday... i mean for fucks sake im trying to help the card so the fan doesnt have to roll at max speed, i dont give a shit about hashrate
3241 2011-05-24 18:56:57 <Namegduf> Sage: It working yesterday says nothing about it being stable in the long run.
3242 2011-05-24 18:57:08 <erbs> i keep my mining rig in a meat locker, surrounding by carcasses.. like in rocky
3243 2011-05-24 18:57:10 <Namegduf> Apparently it isn't. Sorry, no dice, complaining won't make it work.
3244 2011-05-24 18:57:39 <Sage> it worked for 40 minutes, then i had to turn it off..
3245 2011-05-24 18:57:43 <BitterTea> Perhaps it's due to the version and checksum?
3246 2011-05-24 18:57:53 <TD> BitterTea: let me take a look at what the patch produces
3247 2011-05-24 18:57:54 <Namegduf> Yes, that's fairly typical for an unstable tweak.
3248 2011-05-24 18:57:57 <Sage> im not complaining, but maybe someone had the same problem and found a solution
3249 2011-05-24 18:58:02 <Namegduf> There is no solution
3250 2011-05-24 18:58:06 <TD> sh
3251 2011-05-24 18:58:07 <TD> ah
3252 2011-05-24 18:58:14 <erbs> okeedokes
3253 2011-05-24 18:58:21 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3254 2011-05-24 18:58:21 <Sage> okey dokey lokey
3255 2011-05-24 18:58:30 <Namegduf> Your card is behaving precisely like any other card which is not reliable at the given settings, and the only solution is to not use those settings.
3256 2011-05-24 18:58:40 <TD> BitterTea: there are at least two patches from sipa that do this
3257 2011-05-24 18:58:48 <Namegduf> This is pretty standard overclocking/underclocking fare
3258 2011-05-24 18:58:58 <TD> BitterTea: i see
3259 2011-05-24 18:59:08 <TD> BitterTea: sipa invented his own format for this. so the private key has some extra stuff around it
3260 2011-05-24 18:59:41 <TD> BitterTea: You'll have to adjust the PrivateKeys program to understand it. Should not be too hard.
3261 2011-05-24 19:00:05 <TD> if you'd rather not then just mail me with an example privkey (from testnet or that has 0.01 coins in) and i'll fix it
3262 2011-05-24 19:00:46 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
3263 2011-05-24 19:00:51 <BitterTea> it looks like I just base58 decode to a byte array, strip off the first byte (version) and the checksum?
3264 2011-05-24 19:01:16 kuba10 has joined
3265 2011-05-24 19:01:19 dukeleto has joined
3266 2011-05-24 19:01:31 kuba10 has quit (Client Quit)
3267 2011-05-24 19:02:53 <TD> yeah
3268 2011-05-24 19:02:56 <TD> see the code in Address.java
3269 2011-05-24 19:03:33 <TD> the right fix is probably to introduce a superclass that Address and ExportedPrivateKey both derive from. they'd pass the expected size of the contents to the super c'tor
3270 2011-05-24 19:04:21 <BitterTea> But instead of containing the has of the public key, this actually contains the private key itself?
3271 2011-05-24 19:04:24 <BitterTea> *hash
3272 2011-05-24 19:04:30 <TD> exactly
3273 2011-05-24 19:04:44 <erbs> co.caine.
3274 2011-05-24 19:05:24 <BitterTea> erbs: I heart that in Nick Cave's voice, lol
3275 2011-05-24 19:05:40 <BitterTea> *heard, dammit
3276 2011-05-24 19:08:13 soossii has joined
3277 2011-05-24 19:08:21 brooss has joined
3278 2011-05-24 19:10:45 stuhood has joined
3279 2011-05-24 19:10:53 stuhood has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3280 2011-05-24 19:13:06 <erbs> is there a bitcoin app for iphone
3281 2011-05-24 19:13:24 <TD> nope
3282 2011-05-24 19:13:38 <TD> well there is an app that shows some basic stats like usd trading price, network speed
3283 2011-05-24 19:13:41 <TD> not a wallet app though
3284 2011-05-24 19:13:50 <erbs> interesting
3285 2011-05-24 19:13:54 <erbs> have you seen this: http://techland.time.com/2011/05/23/report-police-confuse-bitcoin-miners-power-use-for-weed-grow-op/
3286 2011-05-24 19:15:50 <Diablo-D3> wait
3287 2011-05-24 19:15:51 <Diablo-D3> that was real?
3288 2011-05-24 19:16:03 <[Tycho]> He got info from this IRC channel.
3289 2011-05-24 19:16:04 <uppe> erbs: there will be apps in a short while, i think, given it's recent spike of popularity.
3290 2011-05-24 19:16:04 <BlueMatt> lulwut?
3291 2011-05-24 19:16:20 <uppe> erbs: what are you looking for in an app like that?
3292 2011-05-24 19:16:25 <TD> uppe: an attempt was already made and apple rejected it
3293 2011-05-24 19:16:31 <TD> so, i guess if there is one, it will be cydia only
3294 2011-05-24 19:16:31 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: wtf?!
3295 2011-05-24 19:16:36 AntiVigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3296 2011-05-24 19:16:36 <Diablo-D3> we were all bullshitting about that!
3297 2011-05-24 19:16:42 Nesetalis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3298 2011-05-24 19:16:43 <Diablo-D3> its an obvious riff off the AMD add vs nvidia shit!
3299 2011-05-24 19:16:44 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: really?
3300 2011-05-24 19:16:45 <uppe> TD: did they say why it was rejected?
3301 2011-05-24 19:16:47 <BlueMatt> ha
3302 2011-05-24 19:16:48 <Diablo-D3> yes really!
3303 2011-05-24 19:16:55 <BlueMatt> god media sucks so much
3304 2011-05-24 19:16:59 <TD> uppe: because it provides an alternative currency.
3305 2011-05-24 19:17:00 <Diablo-D3> amd _made a fucking commercial_ about nvidia users getting raided for that fucking thing
3306 2011-05-24 19:17:09 <TD> i guess they view that as a way around their rules on in-app selling, or something
3307 2011-05-24 19:17:10 <TD> who knows
3308 2011-05-24 19:17:11 <BlueMatt> hahahahaha
3309 2011-05-24 19:17:26 <BlueMatt> god mainstream media is sooo fucking stupid
3310 2011-05-24 19:17:53 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt, well, at lest bitcoins got one more free media coverage :)
3311 2011-05-24 19:17:54 <TD> in fairness, the guy says the story is unconfirmed
3312 2011-05-24 19:17:55 <uppe> TD: weird, then paypal shouldn't be allowed either i guess.
3313 2011-05-24 19:18:04 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3314 2011-05-24 19:18:04 <BlueMatt> TD: still...
3315 2011-05-24 19:18:05 <erbs> apples app policies really blow
3316 2011-05-24 19:18:14 <BlueMatt> erbs: no joke
3317 2011-05-24 19:18:14 <BitterTea> uppe: Paypal is a payment method though, not an alternative currency
3318 2011-05-24 19:18:50 <uppe> BitterTea: well, a btc app could be a payment method too.. albeit in an alternative currency
3319 2011-05-24 19:18:55 <Diablo-D3> frost piss!
3320 2011-05-24 19:19:01 <BitterTea> TD: I'm trying to use Base58.decodeChecked but it it's failing
3321 2011-05-24 19:19:59 <BitterTea> Is there something specific to the Address format in there that I'm not seeing?
3322 2011-05-24 19:20:04 <TD> what is the failure ?
3323 2011-05-24 19:20:21 <TD> oh
3324 2011-05-24 19:20:30 <BitterTea> the checksum doesn't match the hashed data
3325 2011-05-24 19:20:46 <TD> it doesn't include the version header byte
3326 2011-05-24 19:20:47 <TD> that's why
3327 2011-05-24 19:20:50 <TD> look at how Address does it
3328 2011-05-24 19:20:51 larsivi has joined
3329 2011-05-24 19:20:52 SerajewelKS has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3330 2011-05-24 19:20:55 <TD> i should unify all this stuff
3331 2011-05-24 19:20:58 SerajewelKS has joined
3332 2011-05-24 19:20:58 SerajewelKS has quit (Changing host)
3333 2011-05-24 19:20:58 SerajewelKS has joined
3334 2011-05-24 19:21:02 <BitterTea> I appreciate your help :)
3335 2011-05-24 19:21:11 <TD> i think the decodeChecked is used by the IRC code. for some reason there the nicks have a checksum but not the header byte
3336 2011-05-24 19:21:11 darby has joined
3337 2011-05-24 19:21:45 Nesetalis has joined
3338 2011-05-24 19:22:29 <BitterTea> Hmm, ok. I was looking at Sipa's patch and it uses DecodeBase58Check, I assumed Base58.decodeChecked did the same thing
3339 2011-05-24 19:22:33 <Diablo-D3> http://techland.time.com/2011/05/23/report-police-confuse-bitcoin-miners-power-use-for-weed-grow-op/#comment-210851913
3340 2011-05-24 19:22:34 <BitterTea> Which, it looks as if it does
3341 2011-05-24 19:22:34 <Diablo-D3> ahh
3342 2011-05-24 19:22:52 <Diablo-D3> and now
3343 2011-05-24 19:22:54 <Diablo-D3> they can stfu
3344 2011-05-24 19:23:32 <TD> hmm
3345 2011-05-24 19:23:38 mmoya has joined
3346 2011-05-24 19:24:06 lulzplzk1hx has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3347 2011-05-24 19:24:07 <TD> BitterTea: right, my mistake
3348 2011-05-24 19:24:10 <TD> the checksum includes the version
3349 2011-05-24 19:24:25 <Diablo-D3> TD: erm
3350 2011-05-24 19:24:27 <Diablo-D3> if its in the header
3351 2011-05-24 19:24:29 <Diablo-D3> generally
3352 2011-05-24 19:24:35 <Diablo-D3> of any header
3353 2011-05-24 19:24:38 <Diablo-D3> a checksum covers it
3354 2011-05-24 19:24:56 lulzplzkthx has joined
3355 2011-05-24 19:25:52 darby has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3356 2011-05-24 19:26:10 chumptown has joined
3357 2011-05-24 19:26:27 peck has joined
3358 2011-05-24 19:28:01 chumptown has quit (Client Quit)
3359 2011-05-24 19:29:18 <TD> BitterTea: not sure then .... maybe try exporting one of your own keys and reimporting it. that would sanity-check that it works.
3360 2011-05-24 19:29:26 eao has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3361 2011-05-24 19:29:27 <BitterTea> Ok
3362 2011-05-24 19:29:44 <TD> or you could try just skipping the checksum
3363 2011-05-24 19:29:51 Sage has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3364 2011-05-24 19:29:51 <TD> extract the middle bytes, see if it turns into the right address
3365 2011-05-24 19:30:25 Transformer has joined
3366 2011-05-24 19:31:02 Transformer has left ()
3367 2011-05-24 19:34:27 <BitterTea> Diablo-D3: Here's the commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QkyfGJgcwQ
3368 2011-05-24 19:34:43 * erbs goes to his hole to die
3369 2011-05-24 19:35:36 <BitterTea> I have to say, this commercial pisses me off
3370 2011-05-24 19:39:07 kreal- has joined
3371 2011-05-24 19:40:17 gsathya has quit (Quit: gsathya)
3372 2011-05-24 19:41:23 gsathya has joined
3373 2011-05-24 19:41:26 <_flow_> where is some help to bitcoin.conf?
3374 2011-05-24 19:41:44 <BlueMatt> _flow_: bitcoin --help
3375 2011-05-24 19:41:57 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
3376 2011-05-24 19:42:10 <_flow_> BlueMatt: ty
3377 2011-05-24 19:42:42 <BitterTea> TD: It doesn't appear to...
3378 2011-05-24 19:43:13 <_flow_> Is there a way to recover my wiki pwassword?
3379 2011-05-24 19:43:25 <gjs278> that commercial owns
3380 2011-05-24 19:44:19 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: that is a retarded commercial
3381 2011-05-24 19:44:35 <BitterTea> Result of Base58.decode is 38 bytes. Taking the inner 33 bytes (ignoring the first and last four), converting to BigInteger and loading an ECKey yields a different address.
3382 2011-05-24 19:44:42 <BitterTea> Maybe I need to contact llama...
3383 2011-05-24 19:44:49 <jrmithdobbs> they could have at least paid for someone who could read the lines off the teleprompter like he wasn't reading off a teleprompter
3384 2011-05-24 19:45:13 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: I was more concerned about the casual portrayal of no-knock raids
3385 2011-05-24 19:45:21 <sipa> BitterTea: it should be 37 bytes
3386 2011-05-24 19:45:32 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: welcome to the war on drugs
3387 2011-05-24 19:45:33 <sipa> and the first one should be 128
3388 2011-05-24 19:45:50 <BitterTea> sipa: It's 0
3389 2011-05-24 19:45:58 kreal- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3390 2011-05-24 19:47:06 <sipa> and the first one should be 128 encoded form start with?
3391 2011-05-24 19:47:12 <sipa> bah
3392 2011-05-24 19:47:22 <sipa> bah encoded form start with?
3393 2011-05-24 19:47:34 <sipa> which character does the base58-encoded form start with?
3394 2011-05-24 19:48:00 <BitterTea> the first characters are "5JLoTse..."
3395 2011-05-24 19:48:10 <BitterTea> ok, skipping the first TWO bytes gives me the correct private key
3396 2011-05-24 19:48:33 <sipa> was the second decodec byte 128?
3397 2011-05-24 19:48:36 <sipa> *decoded
3398 2011-05-24 19:49:31 <BitterTea> Yeah, but it's signed so showing as -128?
3399 2011-05-24 19:49:37 kreal- has joined
3400 2011-05-24 19:49:54 <sipa> that's possbile
3401 2011-05-24 19:50:24 <sipa> TD: is it possible your decoding function produces a superfluous zero byte in front?
3402 2011-05-24 19:50:38 <TD> yeah it's possibly buggy
3403 2011-05-24 19:50:50 <TD> well almost by definition it is buggy
3404 2011-05-24 19:50:57 Ramen has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3405 2011-05-24 19:51:39 <BitterTea> lol
3406 2011-05-24 19:52:21 <BitterTea> once I spend it I'll post the encoded key here
3407 2011-05-24 19:52:40 <sipa> anyway, the format after base58 decoding should be [128] (256-bit private key) (32-bit checksum)
3408 2011-05-24 19:52:57 <sipa> it seems you got [0] [128] (256-bit private key) (32-bit checksum)
3409 2011-05-24 19:53:52 GarrettB has joined
3410 2011-05-24 19:53:52 GarrettB has quit (Changing host)
3411 2011-05-24 19:53:52 GarrettB has joined
3412 2011-05-24 19:54:20 <TD> actually i know why
3413 2011-05-24 19:55:15 <BitterTea> oh?
3414 2011-05-24 19:55:25 <TD> or rather i think i know why :-)
3415 2011-05-24 19:55:33 <sipa> phase of the moon?
3416 2011-05-24 19:55:35 <BitterTea> what is it, I can test
3417 2011-05-24 19:57:07 <TD> hmm
3418 2011-05-24 19:57:18 <TD> actually i'm not sure how this code ever works at all, hehe
3419 2011-05-24 19:57:47 <TD> oh
3420 2011-05-24 19:57:52 <TD> i bet we just got unlucky here
3421 2011-05-24 19:58:03 <TD> so the problem is that BigInteger is represented using twos-compliment notation
3422 2011-05-24 19:58:10 <sipa> aha, a Schrödinbug
3423 2011-05-24 19:58:13 <TD> if the high bit is ever not zero, it'll add an extra zero byte to the end
3424 2011-05-24 19:58:17 <TD> to make the high bit zero again
3425 2011-05-24 19:58:43 <TD> hmmm
3426 2011-05-24 19:59:00 Sage has joined
3427 2011-05-24 19:59:09 <Sage> hey guys, sage is back :)
3428 2011-05-24 19:59:16 <BitterTea> Is it due to the length of the pubkeyhash vs the length of the private key?
3429 2011-05-24 19:59:18 <TD> i think the fix is just to drop the high byte if it's == zero
3430 2011-05-24 19:59:43 <TD> no
3431 2011-05-24 19:59:50 <TD> it's because the first byte is 128
3432 2011-05-24 19:59:58 <TD> aka 10000000 in binary
3433 2011-05-24 20:00:15 <sipa> of course, you know exactly how long it should be after decoding (37 bytes)
3434 2011-05-24 20:00:27 <TD> sipa: could you give me a test key exported with your patch?
3435 2011-05-24 20:00:32 <TD> i'll write a unit test for it and fix this
3436 2011-05-24 20:00:53 d-snp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3437 2011-05-24 20:02:24 <TD> hmm, actually, i guess to replicate it you'd have to export a prodnet key
3438 2011-05-24 20:02:32 <TD> because otherwise the version number is different yet again
3439 2011-05-24 20:02:43 <sipa> 93VYUMzRG9DdbRP72uQXjaWibbQwygnvaCu9DumcqDjGybD864T
3440 2011-05-24 20:02:50 <sipa> for testnet
3441 2011-05-24 20:03:15 <dinox> Hmm, does long polling depend on bitcoind?
3442 2011-05-24 20:03:17 <sipa> (version byte 239)
3443 2011-05-24 20:03:22 <TD> that should work too
3444 2011-05-24 20:03:48 <erbs> bitwich
3445 2011-05-24 20:04:06 m00p has joined
3446 2011-05-24 20:04:32 d4de has joined
3447 2011-05-24 20:05:05 <BitterTea> Yay, I found a bug :)
3448 2011-05-24 20:05:17 <GarrettB> BitterTea: what is it?
3449 2011-05-24 20:06:20 m00p has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
3450 2011-05-24 20:06:24 <neoeinstein_> When the MSB of the big integer is set, the big integer should be interpreted as negative. Otherwise it will put that marker byte in the front (effectively shows don't sign-extend this bit)
3451 2011-05-24 20:07:04 <BitterTea> GarrettB: A bug in BitcoinJ's Base58Decode routine
3452 2011-05-24 20:07:24 m00p has joined
3453 2011-05-24 20:09:16 <BitterTea> Huzzah
3454 2011-05-24 20:09:18 <Diablo-D3> BitterTea: yeah thats the one
3455 2011-05-24 20:09:23 <Sage> where is the douche who kept saying i cant play around with my machine?
3456 2011-05-24 20:11:01 <BitterTea> TD: 5JLoTseHAG7neUS8UrkRdDCefvVb3BaawsckyroWERqeEPWQ14N
3457 2011-05-24 20:11:35 <TD> that's your private key?
3458 2011-05-24 20:12:12 <sipa> certainly looks like one
3459 2011-05-24 20:12:19 <BitterTea> yeah, the one encoded into the QR code of the bitbill
3460 2011-05-24 20:12:21 <BitterTea> now spent, of course :)
3461 2011-05-24 20:12:54 <TD> nice
3462 2011-05-24 20:13:07 <sipa> may i import it? :)
3463 2011-05-24 20:13:17 * TD grumbles, wishes android used java 1.6
3464 2011-05-24 20:13:39 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
3465 2011-05-24 20:13:40 <gribble> 126408
3466 2011-05-24 20:15:28 <sipa> BitterTea: i could import it perfectly, and have now a nice +10 and a -10 transaction in my wallet :)
3467 2011-05-24 20:15:57 <BitterTea> sipa: Cool :)
3468 2011-05-24 20:16:03 <BitterTea> Apparently llama did his homework
3469 2011-05-24 20:16:07 jtobey has joined
3470 2011-05-24 20:16:16 <BitterTea> I've posted a picture of the opened Bitbill: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7724.msg139734#msg139734
3471 2011-05-24 20:16:31 <sipa> apparently the address was credited on december 5th
3472 2011-05-24 20:16:36 <sipa> oh no
3473 2011-05-24 20:16:41 <sipa> may 12th :S
3474 2011-05-24 20:16:53 * sipa hates US date notation
3475 2011-05-24 20:16:59 <BitterTea> Haha, yeah
3476 2011-05-24 20:17:03 <BitterTea> I use yyyy-MM-dd
3477 2011-05-24 20:17:07 <sipa> same
3478 2011-05-24 20:17:13 Sedra- has joined
3479 2011-05-24 20:17:17 <BitterTea> It's so much better since you can sort it as a string correctly :)
3480 2011-05-24 20:18:05 <GarrettB> DD-MM-YYY :)
3481 2011-05-24 20:18:08 <GarrettB> er
3482 2011-05-24 20:18:09 <GarrettB> YYYY
3483 2011-05-24 20:18:11 eao has joined
3484 2011-05-24 20:18:17 <mtrlt> yyyy-mm-dd is the only right way
3485 2011-05-24 20:18:20 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/The_way_To_manufacture_a_Realistic_Water_Text_Effect
3486 2011-05-24 20:18:22 <luke-jr> wtf is this crap
3487 2011-05-24 20:18:33 Ramen has joined
3488 2011-05-24 20:18:50 <mtrlt> spammage
3489 2011-05-24 20:18:57 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r84 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Address.java: Add some error messages to the Address exceptions for easier debugging
3490 2011-05-24 20:18:59 <mtrlt> quite eloquent, in fact
3491 2011-05-24 20:19:05 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3492 2011-05-24 20:19:12 Sedra- is now known as Sedra
3493 2011-05-24 20:20:00 <erbs> wikispam
3494 2011-05-24 20:20:28 <sipa> BitterTea: i'm not able to QR scan your picture of the bitbill qr code
3495 2011-05-24 20:20:30 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: something that sould be deleted?
3496 2011-05-24 20:20:32 <sipa> :(
3497 2011-05-24 20:20:58 <BlueMatt> who has wiki admin?
3498 2011-05-24 20:21:36 <BitterTea> sipa: It's probably too obstructed
3499 2011-05-24 20:21:46 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: nanotube and genjix do
3500 2011-05-24 20:21:55 <erbs> kyoo arrr
3501 2011-05-24 20:21:58 <erbs> luke-jr is cool
3502 2011-05-24 20:22:16 jtobey has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3503 2011-05-24 20:22:55 <BitterTea> luke-jr: Looks like spam
3504 2011-05-24 20:23:17 <erbs> they are trying to steal your linkjuice
3505 2011-05-24 20:23:19 <nanotube> luke-jr: page deleted. thanks. :)
3506 2011-05-24 20:24:10 <BitterTea> CIA-103: Is that a google-code bot?
3507 2011-05-24 20:24:17 <BlueMatt> BitterTea: no its a cia bot
3508 2011-05-24 20:24:25 <BlueMatt> cia.vc
3509 2011-05-24 20:25:19 <sipa> BitterTea: yeah
3510 2011-05-24 20:25:48 <BlueMatt> not really, its a bot that tracks any kind of repo
3511 2011-05-24 20:26:02 <BlueMatt> (incl google code, github, other git, etc)
3512 2011-05-24 20:26:21 Niedar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3513 2011-05-24 20:26:44 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r85 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Fix bug in Base58.decode that caused failures when the MSB of the decoded byte array was 1. Thanks to BitterTea and sipa for help with debugging this.
3514 2011-05-24 20:27:06 LiveFreeOrDie201 has joined
3515 2011-05-24 20:27:16 <TD> it seems intellij has decided it doesn't want to play with subversion anymore, boooo
3516 2011-05-24 20:27:53 <erbs> bitcoin rules
3517 2011-05-24 20:27:56 <erbs> now i need a t-shirt
3518 2011-05-24 20:28:13 <erbs> bitcoin wolfpack - maybe a pic of satoshi flying into space
3519 2011-05-24 20:28:29 <BitterTea> Oh, TD = Mike?
3520 2011-05-24 20:28:34 <erbs> or a giant coin
3521 2011-05-24 20:28:47 <sipa> BitterTea: bingo
3522 2011-05-24 20:28:49 Lachesis has joined
3523 2011-05-24 20:29:05 <BitterTea> At first I thought maybe he had a grudge against TD and didn't want to give him any credit :D
3524 2011-05-24 20:29:20 <sipa> lol
3525 2011-05-24 20:29:20 <erbs> "DNA matches ex-IMF chief Strauss-Kahn in sex attack"
3526 2011-05-24 20:29:23 <BitterTea> erbs: Three Satoshi Coin
3527 2011-05-24 20:29:31 <erbs> interesting BitterTea
3528 2011-05-24 20:29:49 <bradmills> hey guys
3529 2011-05-24 20:29:52 <bradmills> Bruce Wagner
3530 2011-05-24 20:29:54 <bradmills> is he on here?
3531 2011-05-24 20:29:58 <Sage> guys, do you think i can leave my 6990 at 615 core 625 mem 50% fan ~69°C running all night?
3532 2011-05-24 20:30:09 <BlueMatt> if its at 69, yea
3533 2011-05-24 20:30:23 <BlueMatt> (provided your power supply is pretty good)
3534 2011-05-24 20:30:25 <BlueMatt> ie not some shit
3535 2011-05-24 20:30:39 yasha2 has joined
3536 2011-05-24 20:30:51 <Ramen> if the power supply fails... wouldn't it just power off?
3537 2011-05-24 20:30:56 <BitterTea> erbs: I read that yesterday, but I don't think he ever denied expelling semen in her general direction, just that she consented to receive it
3538 2011-05-24 20:31:01 <Ramen> sooo won't really matter?
3539 2011-05-24 20:31:19 <erbs> well....
3540 2011-05-24 20:31:23 <BlueMatt> Ramen: well it could surge, destroying your hardware first, also its really not a question of failure, but of how clean the power is
3541 2011-05-24 20:31:42 <BlueMatt> if the power goes back and forth out of spec, it can damage your hardware over time
3542 2011-05-24 20:31:51 <erbs> wheres the signature giving consent?
3543 2011-05-24 20:32:15 <erbs> hehe.. anyway its impossible to know what happened - it couldve been consensual encounter, or not..
3544 2011-05-24 20:33:03 <Sage> BlueMatt: corsair AX850
3545 2011-05-24 20:33:12 <erbs> a jury will see it as non-consensual because she was at work and presumably wasn't supposed to consort with the guests.. and most women wont find it plausible that she agreed to random sex with a fat old guy in the middle of her work
3546 2011-05-24 20:33:16 <BlueMatt> Sage: yea corsair is pretty good
3547 2011-05-24 20:33:27 <BlueMatt> erbs: have you noticed no one is respondign?
3548 2011-05-24 20:34:02 <erbs> huh?
3549 2011-05-24 20:34:28 <BlueMatt> this isnt the place to be discussing that imf guy's rape
3550 2011-05-24 20:34:48 <erbs> you called it a rape.. hes innocent until proven guilty right?
3551 2011-05-24 20:35:05 <BlueMatt> whatever
3552 2011-05-24 20:35:50 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
3553 2011-05-24 20:37:20 <erbs> anyway its exactly the kind of smear attack the cia would do - something out of a hollywood movie. get a maid to seduce the guy, then report it as rape. seeing as how the whole incident happened just days after the IMF criticised the US growing debt as grave and unsustainable
3554 2011-05-24 20:37:20 <TD> sipa: it'd have been convenient if the exported key contained the block number it first appeared in too
3555 2011-05-24 20:37:33 <TD> sipa: i know the client doesn't currently track that
3556 2011-05-24 20:38:20 <BitterTea> to do a selective rescan?
3557 2011-05-24 20:38:46 <TD> yes
3558 2011-05-24 20:39:12 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3559 2011-05-24 20:39:12 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.2,"low":6.96,"vol":14620,"buy":7.04,"sell":7.0401,"last":7.0401}}
3560 2011-05-24 20:40:28 <BitterTea> Hmm, I just thought of something
3561 2011-05-24 20:40:37 <BitterTea> For this use case, the private key doesn't even need to be in the wallet
3562 2011-05-24 20:40:57 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3563 2011-05-24 20:41:17 <BitterTea> All you need to do is create the transaction signing with the private key, no?
3564 2011-05-24 20:41:30 <BitterTea> There's no way to know the balance of the account though
3565 2011-05-24 20:41:38 <TD> you need to have a copy of the transactions you want to spend
3566 2011-05-24 20:41:42 <retinal> [13:09:30] <BitterTea> I've posted a picture of the opened Bitbill: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7724.msg139734#msg139734
3567 2011-05-24 20:41:49 <TD> so you have to find them all
3568 2011-05-24 20:41:51 <retinal> Do I get a prize for decoding that QR code?
3569 2011-05-24 20:41:51 <BitterTea> Oh, yeah
3570 2011-05-24 20:41:56 <retinal> 5JLoTseHAG7neUS8UrkRdDCefvVb3BaawsckyroWERqeEPWQ14N
3571 2011-05-24 20:42:18 <BitterTea> retinal: If you can import that into your wallet and you have >50% of the network hashing power, you can claim it ;)
3572 2011-05-24 20:42:33 <retinal> oh bum.
3573 2011-05-24 20:42:53 <luke-jr> lol
3574 2011-05-24 20:42:57 <BitterTea> But it's already got 7 confirmations so you better work fast!
3575 2011-05-24 20:43:04 <retinal> haha
3576 2011-05-24 20:43:16 <luke-jr> BitterTea: how do you know you sent *that* 10 BTC?
3577 2011-05-24 20:43:33 <BitterTea> http://blockexplorer.com/address/1JUjbTHp4ki6LFPFHYtC8isdteku5N7ZSG
3578 2011-05-24 20:43:33 <retinal> luke-jr: genius
3579 2011-05-24 20:43:40 <BitterTea> unless I misunderstood
3580 2011-05-24 20:44:22 <sipa> TD: the json format does contain that information
3581 2011-05-24 20:44:30 <gjs278> luke-jr what do you use for your mining vm, xen kvm or something else
3582 2011-05-24 20:44:37 <TD> sipa: oh, it does? cool.
3583 2011-05-24 20:44:39 Sage has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3584 2011-05-24 20:44:51 <TD> sipa: it'd be nice to embed in the binary as well then. seeing as how people are now putting them into plastic cards ....
3585 2011-05-24 20:45:14 <sipa> TD: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8091.msg131716#msg131716
3586 2011-05-24 20:45:43 <sipa> TD: i actually intended the json format to be used in qr codes
3587 2011-05-24 20:45:49 <luke-jr> gjs278: KVM
3588 2011-05-24 20:45:56 <TD> would they fit?
3589 2011-05-24 20:46:00 <sipa> sure
3590 2011-05-24 20:46:01 <gjs278> ok
3591 2011-05-24 20:46:15 <TD> hmmm. qrcodes are more reliable if they have less data in them, afaik ...
3592 2011-05-24 20:46:51 <sipa> actually, maybe a base36-encoded format could be defined (you know.. the nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from), that'd be optimal for QR
3593 2011-05-24 20:47:39 <sipa> TD: ideally it'd contain a private key, a txid, a txoutput#, and a merkle path to a block, of which the height or id is given :)
3594 2011-05-24 20:48:01 <TD> sipa: well a key can have many txns sending coins to it
3595 2011-05-24 20:48:12 <TD> so it seems like it may not scale to try and cram all that into a qrcode
3596 2011-05-24 20:48:18 <TD> a range of blocks seems better
3597 2011-05-24 20:48:21 <luke-jr> sipa: IMO, privkey and height is sufficient
3598 2011-05-24 20:48:42 <sipa> there are two "modes" actually
3599 2011-05-24 20:48:51 <sipa> either you know all transactions at the time of the export
3600 2011-05-24 20:48:52 Insti has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3601 2011-05-24 20:48:55 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3602 2011-05-24 20:48:56 <luke-jr> right
3603 2011-05-24 20:49:02 sethsethseth_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3604 2011-05-24 20:49:13 <sipa> or you only know the first block where it may have been used
3605 2011-05-24 20:49:16 Teslah has joined
3606 2011-05-24 20:49:20 <luke-jr> well not right
3607 2011-05-24 20:49:31 <luke-jr> you can never be SURE a later block won't use it
3608 2011-05-24 20:49:38 <sipa> of course
3609 2011-05-24 20:49:46 <sipa> but you can know it didn't
3610 2011-05-24 20:49:48 <luke-jr> so you can onyl specify starting block height
3611 2011-05-24 20:49:51 <sipa> eg. for a bitbill
3612 2011-05-24 20:50:09 <sipa> allowing a much faster import and compatibility with headers-only clients
3613 2011-05-24 20:50:20 <BitterTea> Am I the only one that's had a difficult time adjusting the the "real names" initiative?
3614 2011-05-24 20:50:21 <luke-jr> sipa: I can scan the pubkey on a stranger's bitbill and send him a tip before it's redeemed
3615 2011-05-24 20:50:35 <luke-jr> BitterTea: huh?
3616 2011-05-24 20:50:35 <sipa> yeah, true
3617 2011-05-24 20:50:37 <GarrettB> BitterTea: I get confused a bit too :)
3618 2011-05-24 20:50:39 <TD> sipa: a range of blocks would do the same
3619 2011-05-24 20:50:50 <TD> BitterTea: you mean because you don't know who people are anymore?
3620 2011-05-24 20:50:56 <sipa> TD: how do you mean?
3621 2011-05-24 20:51:24 gsathya has quit (Quit: gsathya)
3622 2011-05-24 20:51:41 WakiMiko_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3623 2011-05-24 20:51:47 <BitterTea> TD: yeah
3624 2011-05-24 20:51:57 <luke-jr> BitterTea: *what* "real names initiative"?
3625 2011-05-24 20:52:12 <luke-jr> requiring everyone who uses bitcoin to share their real name?
3626 2011-05-24 20:52:15 <BitterTea> Lots of people, most of the developers are using their real names on the forum now
3627 2011-05-24 20:52:20 <BitterTea> No, voluntarily
3628 2011-05-24 20:52:44 <mtrlt> i see no point in using one's real name on the internets.
3629 2011-05-24 20:52:54 <BitterTea> On other forums I've used, when you change your name, your old one shows up as a title for a period of time
3630 2011-05-24 20:52:57 <mtrlt> what does it matter what someone's name is?
3631 2011-05-24 20:53:09 <luke-jr> mtrlt: someone's name is what people call them
3632 2011-05-24 20:53:17 <luke-jr> mtrlt: as far as I am concerned, your real name is 'mtrlt'
3633 2011-05-24 20:53:19 <BitterTea> mtrlt: It's a way of gaining trust
3634 2011-05-24 20:53:21 <mtrlt> luke-jr: i'm happy being called mtrlt :P
3635 2011-05-24 20:53:27 npouillard has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
3636 2011-05-24 20:53:34 Slix` has joined
3637 2011-05-24 20:53:38 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3638 2011-05-24 20:53:59 <mtrlt> BitterTea: hm yea, true
3639 2011-05-24 20:54:35 <sipa> TD: {"keys":["key":"5dsjgnb...","height":123456],"loc":{"000006DDADV...":123456}}
3640 2011-05-24 20:54:45 <sipa> TD: is what i would have put on a QR code
3641 2011-05-24 20:54:58 <luke-jr> sipa: better to binary-format it
3642 2011-05-24 20:55:12 <sipa> binary data in QR is a mess a badly supported
3643 2011-05-24 20:55:16 <luke-jr> {}[] are going to put it into binary mode anyway
3644 2011-05-24 20:55:21 <sipa> that's true
3645 2011-05-24 20:55:58 <sipa> if you'd make a QR-specific format, i'd use a binary thing encoded as base36
3646 2011-05-24 20:56:19 <sipa> with block height and private key in it
3647 2011-05-24 20:56:24 <luke-jr> can QR-Codes support new non-standard "modes"?
3648 2011-05-24 20:56:25 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Laurent Bachelier * rf9993c996466 gentoo/dev-python/jsonrpc/ (Manifest jsonrpc-9999.ebuild): dev-python/jsonrpc: update to EAPI 3 / Python ABIs http://tinyurl.com/3en8a4o
3649 2011-05-24 20:56:25 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Laurent Bachelier * rbc36a8d9b23e gentoo/dev-python/jsonrpc/ (Manifest jsonrpc-9999.ebuild): dev-python/jsonrpc: Declare EAPI before inherit http://tinyurl.com/3w5ofng
3650 2011-05-24 20:56:26 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Florian Schmaus * rd2745f7ed5ff gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.4.1.ebuild): Merge branch 'master' of gitorious.org:bitcoin/gentoo http://tinyurl.com/426ead5
3651 2011-05-24 20:56:45 WakiMiko has joined
3652 2011-05-24 20:57:08 <BitterTea> Why base36?
3653 2011-05-24 20:57:20 <luke-jr> BitterTea: QR-Codes optimize it
3654 2011-05-24 20:57:22 <sipa> that'd put qr in alphanumeric mode, which is very efficient
3655 2011-05-24 20:57:28 <BitterTea> Ah, gotcha
3656 2011-05-24 20:57:28 eternal1 has joined
3657 2011-05-24 20:58:48 <BitterTea> What about DataMatrix?
3658 2011-05-24 20:59:01 <sipa> don't know about that
3659 2011-05-24 20:59:03 <sipa> seems less used
3660 2011-05-24 20:59:25 <BitterTea> I thought it was more open, but I'm not sure how
3661 2011-05-24 20:59:37 <BitterTea> looks like it's less efficient though (2335 vs 4296 characters)
3662 2011-05-24 21:00:04 <sipa> bytes or characters?
3663 2011-05-24 21:00:21 <sipa> qr supports 2953 bytes
3664 2011-05-24 21:01:09 <BitterTea> DM might not do binary
3665 2011-05-24 21:01:10 <TD> grr, my code is still buggy
3666 2011-05-24 21:01:26 <TD> bitcoin is so fiddly sometimes
3667 2011-05-24 21:02:01 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3668 2011-05-24 21:03:54 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok...no matter how I try, wx2.8 is no slower than 2.9
3669 2011-05-24 21:04:13 <BitterTea> TD: What are you working on?
3670 2011-05-24 21:04:41 kelvie_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3671 2011-05-24 21:05:00 kelvie_ has joined
3672 2011-05-24 21:05:03 <TD> trying to improve the address/base58 handling code
3673 2011-05-24 21:05:10 <TD> i missed a bit out when transcribing satoshis algorithm
3674 2011-05-24 21:05:29 kelvie_ has left ()
3675 2011-05-24 21:07:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: are you using your own wx, or are you using pre-built ones...are you using debug version?
3676 2011-05-24 21:07:15 moop has joined
3677 2011-05-24 21:07:27 <sipa> let me try to compile again
3678 2011-05-24 21:09:48 amiller has joined
3679 2011-05-24 21:09:53 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3680 2011-05-24 21:10:10 <BitterTea> BlueMatt: I meant to ask, why wx2.8? Easier to support?
3681 2011-05-24 21:10:49 Kiba has joined
3682 2011-05-24 21:10:50 <BlueMatt> yea, it can get us packaged
3683 2011-05-24 21:11:04 <BlueMatt> 2.9 will never get packaged, and we cant link it in official packages, those will never be accepted
3684 2011-05-24 21:11:11 <BitterTea> Ah
3685 2011-05-24 21:11:12 <BlueMatt> 2.9 is a "development release"
3686 2011-05-24 21:13:53 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3687 2011-05-24 21:16:25 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3688 2011-05-24 21:16:33 sabalaba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3689 2011-05-24 21:17:04 <erbs> is Bitcoin capitalized or not?
3690 2011-05-24 21:19:18 <yasha2> whatever works for you
3691 2011-05-24 21:19:25 <BurningToad1> hmm, bitcoin client open 5 minutes now and still 0 connections
3692 2011-05-24 21:19:41 <BlueMatt> BurningToad1: know...very common problem in recent times
3693 2011-05-24 21:19:44 moop has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3694 2011-05-24 21:19:51 <BurningToad1> oh
3695 2011-05-24 21:20:01 <BlueMatt> really needs fixed
3696 2011-05-24 21:21:09 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3697 2011-05-24 21:21:32 <yasha2> hmmmm $r = system( "$bitcoind $cmdline")
3698 2011-05-24 21:22:20 <BurningToad1> any tips on how to get a connection? i can't open ports
3699 2011-05-24 21:22:22 d-snp has joined
3700 2011-05-24 21:22:53 gwelymernan has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3701 2011-05-24 21:22:58 mtrlt has joined
3702 2011-05-24 21:23:13 <BurningToad1> ah, just got one finally
3703 2011-05-24 21:23:51 <yasha2> you can define 'known' hosts in the conf file
3704 2011-05-24 21:25:05 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,wiki Fallback Nodes
3705 2011-05-24 21:25:06 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes | May 24, 2011 ... Before adding yourself as a fallback node, you should be sure your node will stay online for a long time. If a node is offline for more than ...
3706 2011-05-24 21:25:16 <BlueMatt> for future reference ^
3707 2011-05-24 21:25:36 <BitterTea> What is it that's causing the difficulty in getting connections? Has it been identified?
3708 2011-05-24 21:25:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: on my home machine (also ubuntu 10.10 amd64) wx2.8 is also noticably slower
3709 2011-05-24 21:25:54 <sipa> + scrolling
3710 2011-05-24 21:26:30 <BlueMatt> BitterTea: mostly just the percent of nodes which do not accept incoming connections and the amount of turnover on the network atm
3711 2011-05-24 21:26:32 <yasha2> so if you wanted to build a new test network, with new genesis block... would the absolute minimum people in network be 2?
3712 2011-05-24 21:26:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: it takes 9s to scroll 88 steps
3713 2011-05-24 21:27:01 <BurningToad1> my home node was at 117 connections the other day :0
3714 2011-05-24 21:27:12 <yasha2> just 2 addresses, basicly
3715 2011-05-24 21:27:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: I dont get it...scrolling should never be slow, it isnt even handled by the program, that is all gtk
3716 2011-05-24 21:27:35 <BlueMatt> not even wx
3717 2011-05-24 21:27:38 <sipa> i know
3718 2011-05-24 21:27:41 <BlueMatt> though switching tabs might be
3719 2011-05-24 21:27:42 <BitterTea> yasha2: I think only one node is truly necessary, but boring :)
3720 2011-05-24 21:27:58 <yasha2> one node could only send to itself, ya?
3721 2011-05-24 21:27:59 <sipa> and no it's not a debug version i've linked with
3722 2011-05-24 21:28:11 <sipa> BlueMatt: it's with the ubuntu-supplied wx2.8 though
3723 2011-05-24 21:28:17 <BlueMatt> sipa: as is mine
3724 2011-05-24 21:28:22 <yasha2> heh
3725 2011-05-24 21:28:24 <yasha2> so 2 nodes makes a 'real' network
3726 2011-05-24 21:28:53 <yasha2> 192.168.2.1 and 192.168.2.2
3727 2011-05-24 21:29:39 <BitterTea> Well, the only fundamental difference is that with one node, you'll never have any connections (obviously), but you can still "broadcast" txs and generate blocks to confirm those txs
3728 2011-05-24 21:30:03 <yasha2> hmm.. true
3729 2011-05-24 21:30:20 <yasha2> i wonder what would happen to difficulty
3730 2011-05-24 21:31:24 <BitterTea> It would act as normal
3731 2011-05-24 21:31:37 <BitterTea> Every 2016 blocks you create you'd recalculate and continue
3732 2011-05-24 21:31:44 ssas has joined
3733 2011-05-24 21:31:50 <yasha2> so if you wanted to be a 'central banker' of a newly created blockchain currency... you run the system with 1 node for a while.. then open it up
3734 2011-05-24 21:32:09 <BitterTea> You're not really a central banker, just a Satoshi :)
3735 2011-05-24 21:32:28 <yasha2> ' a while '
3736 2011-05-24 21:32:33 <SerajewelKS> what does CBlockIndex::nHeight refer to?
3737 2011-05-24 21:32:33 <ssas> hey i just found out what bitcoin is
3738 2011-05-24 21:32:38 <yasha2> true true
3739 2011-05-24 21:32:53 <ssas> how many coins are left
3740 2011-05-24 21:32:59 <yasha2> a lot
3741 2011-05-24 21:33:12 <SerajewelKS> ssas: about 1/4 of them
3742 2011-05-24 21:33:15 <SerajewelKS> erm
3743 2011-05-24 21:33:15 <SerajewelKS> 3/4
3744 2011-05-24 21:33:36 <ssas> so around 9 million coins
3745 2011-05-24 21:33:36 <BitterTea> ssas: What do you mean by "left"?
3746 2011-05-24 21:33:38 <yasha2> There will be 21 million
3747 2011-05-24 21:33:44 <yasha2> and then no more
3748 2011-05-24 21:33:45 <ssas> i thought there are 12
3749 2011-05-24 21:33:50 <SerajewelKS> ssas: 21
3750 2011-05-24 21:34:01 <BitterTea> If you were ask how much gold is left, do you mean how much is available to purchase, or how much has yet to be mined from the earth?
3751 2011-05-24 21:34:02 <SerajewelKS> ssas: so closer to 15 million left
3752 2011-05-24 21:34:14 <jivvz> quite exactly 70% left
3753 2011-05-24 21:34:18 <yasha2> the person who generates the last coin gets a prize
3754 2011-05-24 21:34:27 <ssas> by what rate it is "deplete"
3755 2011-05-24 21:34:40 <BitterTea> yasha2: Yes, .00000001 BTC :)
3756 2011-05-24 21:34:42 <ssas> depleting
3757 2011-05-24 21:34:47 <yasha2> you mean at what rate are new coins generated?
3758 2011-05-24 21:34:57 <BitterTea> 300 BTC per hour
3759 2011-05-24 21:34:58 <ssas> no are found
3760 2011-05-24 21:34:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: i'm trying to find out whether any bitcoin-code is invoked while scrolling
3761 2011-05-24 21:35:07 <sipa> BlueMatt: but it doesn't seem to be the case
3762 2011-05-24 21:35:14 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, I just booted yet another completely clean ubuntu vm of 10.04.2 and I have no problems using the 1000-tx wallet from earlier
3763 2011-05-24 21:35:14 <BitterTea> until 2012, then 150 BTC per hour, halving every ~4 years
3764 2011-05-24 21:35:22 <yasha2> on average
3765 2011-05-24 21:35:24 <ssas> i see
3766 2011-05-24 21:35:49 <SerajewelKS> hmm, what's the difference between CBlockIndex::nHeight and CBlockIndex::nBlockPos?
3767 2011-05-24 21:35:51 <yasha2> so mining just before a difficulty jump must be ' prime season '
3768 2011-05-24 21:36:08 <ssas> so what are the odds if u got a normal laptop to get a coin?
3769 2011-05-24 21:36:09 <SerajewelKS> yasha2: no
3770 2011-05-24 21:36:19 <SerajewelKS> ssas: close to zero
3771 2011-05-24 21:36:35 <BitterTea> yasha2: Doing so increases the difficulty by a larger amount, so it would actually be right *after* a difficulty increase, I think
3772 2011-05-24 21:36:46 <yasha2> by yourself, close to zero. if you join a pool, in a few months
3773 2011-05-24 21:36:50 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3774 2011-05-24 21:36:55 <yasha2> ah
3775 2011-05-24 21:37:07 <yasha2> that would be important to time right!
3776 2011-05-24 21:37:07 <BitterTea> Well, you might not *ever* get a WHOLE BTC from mining on a laptop CPU
3777 2011-05-24 21:37:14 <ssas> and what is the exchange rate to let say a dlooar atm
3778 2011-05-24 21:37:15 <ssas> ?
3779 2011-05-24 21:37:23 <BitterTea> ;;bc,mtgox
3780 2011-05-24 21:37:23 <ssas> dollar
3781 2011-05-24 21:37:23 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.2,"low":6.96,"vol":14287,"buy":7.01,"sell":7.0784,"last":7.01}}
3782 2011-05-24 21:37:35 <BitterTea> ~$7/btc
3783 2011-05-24 21:38:29 <SerajewelKS> so there are no bitcoin developers other than me here right now?
3784 2011-05-24 21:38:42 <Pilate> like the actual client developers?
3785 2011-05-24 21:38:51 <yasha2> bittertea: with pool, you could get 1.00 BTC within a 'reasonable' time
3786 2011-05-24 21:39:05 <BitterTea> Are you taking into account difficulty increases?
3787 2011-05-24 21:40:10 nutcase has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3788 2011-05-24 21:40:25 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
3789 2011-05-24 21:40:43 <sipa> BlueMatt: it becomes slower if my bitcoin window is larger
3790 2011-05-24 21:40:44 <SerajewelKS> Pilate: yes, i'm trying to ask a development-related question, which is what i thought this channel was for
3791 2011-05-24 21:40:57 <BurningToad1> lost the 1 connection I had :(
3792 2011-05-24 21:41:30 <SerajewelKS> if you're asking general questions about bitcoin, please use #bitcoin
3793 2011-05-24 21:41:45 <SerajewelKS> if you're asking about bitcoin mining, please use #bitcoin-mining
3794 2011-05-24 21:41:49 <sipa> SerajewelKS: quite sure i count as developer
3795 2011-05-24 21:42:18 <SerajewelKS> hmm, what's the difference between CBlockIndex::nHeight and CBlockIndex::nBlockPos? <--
3796 2011-05-24 21:43:20 <sipa> nBlockPos is the position in the file
3797 2011-05-24 21:43:26 <sipa> nHeight is the number of the block
3798 2011-05-24 21:43:31 <SerajewelKS> aha
3799 2011-05-24 21:43:37 Incitatus has joined
3800 2011-05-24 21:43:39 <ssas> what is the exchange rate 1btc / dollar
3801 2011-05-24 21:43:47 <SerajewelKS> ssas: #bitcoin
3802 2011-05-24 21:44:11 RenaKunisaki has joined
3803 2011-05-24 21:45:25 <SerajewelKS> sipa: so, if nHeight != 0, then "1 + nBestHeight - nHeight" would be how deep the block is
3804 2011-05-24 21:45:45 <sipa> SerajewelKS: ?
3805 2011-05-24 21:45:48 <SerajewelKS> with 1 being the current best block
3806 2011-05-24 21:45:55 <sipa> oh
3807 2011-05-24 21:45:59 <sipa> yes
3808 2011-05-24 21:46:02 <sipa> that's called the depth
3809 2011-05-24 21:46:09 <SerajewelKS> ok cool, i think that's all i need to finish this patch
3810 2011-05-24 21:46:17 <sipa> what are you implementing?
3811 2011-05-24 21:46:21 <SerajewelKS> there don't seem to be many methods for calculating these metrics
3812 2011-05-24 21:46:33 <SerajewelKS> i'm revising my "lastsinceblock" patch
3813 2011-05-24 21:46:43 <SerajewelKS> so that it doesn't depend on having all of the block data locally
3814 2011-05-24 21:47:00 <BlueMatt> sipa: nope, on 11.04 it lags none, no matter the window size
3815 2011-05-24 21:47:06 <BlueMatt> arg this is really pissing me off
3816 2011-05-24 21:47:24 <sipa> maybe i should try upgrading to 11.04
3817 2011-05-24 21:47:27 <BlueMatt> no
3818 2011-05-24 21:47:33 <BlueMatt> because it doesnt happen on 10.04 either
3819 2011-05-24 21:47:37 <BlueMatt> (afaict)
3820 2011-05-24 21:47:39 nutcase has joined
3821 2011-05-24 21:47:52 <BlueMatt> maybe it is some kind of gtk setting?
3822 2011-05-24 21:48:08 <BlueMatt> like a specific themeing crap going on that isnt applied to wx2.9?
3823 2011-05-24 21:48:16 <BlueMatt> also, what compile flags did you use on wx2.9?
3824 2011-05-24 21:48:31 <sipa> just the normal makefile.unix
3825 2011-05-24 21:48:54 <sipa> complete normal git master build
3826 2011-05-24 21:48:57 <sipa> *completely
3827 2011-05-24 21:49:00 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r86 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
3828 2011-05-24 21:49:00 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: Fix a bug in Base58 decoding. Refactor how it is handled and introduce a new
3829 2011-05-24 21:49:01 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: DumpedPrivateKey class that can be used to load keys generated by the
3830 2011-05-24 21:49:01 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: dumpprivkey RPC. Use a new VersionedChecksummedBytes class to share the code.
3831 2011-05-24 21:49:23 <TD> oh, forgot to mention, that revision also fixes PrivateKeys so it can understand bitbills
3832 2011-05-24 21:49:30 <sipa> nice!
3833 2011-05-24 21:49:34 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3834 2011-05-24 21:49:43 <BlueMatt> sipa: what about wx compile flags?
3835 2011-05-24 21:51:06 <sipa> g++ -c -O2 -Wno-invalid-offsetof -Wformat -DNOPCH -DFOURWAYSSE2 -DUSE_SSL -I/usr/lib/wx/include/gtk2-unicode-release-2.8 -I/usr/include/wx-2.8 -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -D_LARGE_FILES -D__WXGTK__ -pthread -DGUI -o obj/ui.o ui.cpp
3836 2011-05-24 21:51:19 <BlueMatt> no I mean how you built wx2.9?
3837 2011-05-24 21:51:24 <BlueMatt> the ./configure flags?
3838 2011-05-24 21:51:41 <BlueMatt> 2.9 or 2.9.1
3839 2011-05-24 21:51:43 <sipa> 2.9? does that matter, if it's fast?
3840 2011-05-24 21:51:50 <sipa> let me check
3841 2011-05-24 21:52:01 <BlueMatt> probably not, but at this point Im just at a loss
3842 2011-05-24 21:53:11 ssas has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3843 2011-05-24 21:53:31 <sipa> g++ -c -O2 -Wno-invalid-offsetof -Wformat -g -D__WXDEBUG__ -DNOPCH -DFOURWAYSSE2 -DUSE_SSL -I/usr/local/lib/wx/include/gtk2-unicode-2.9 -I/usr/local/include/wx-2.9 -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -DWXUSINGDLL -D__WXGTK__ -pthread -DGUI -o obj/ui.o ui.cpp
3844 2011-05-24 21:53:36 <sipa> is the wx2.9 thing
3845 2011-05-24 21:53:45 <BlueMatt> no didnt you build ws2.9 yourself?
3846 2011-05-24 21:53:55 <sipa> yes i did, but just ./configure i believe
3847 2011-05-24 21:53:59 <BlueMatt> when you built wx...all that time ago
3848 2011-05-24 21:54:00 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3849 2011-05-24 21:54:06 <sipa> 2.9.1
3850 2011-05-24 21:54:07 <BlueMatt> --with-debug?
3851 2011-05-24 21:54:25 <BlueMatt> sorry --enable-debug?
3852 2011-05-24 21:54:33 <BlueMatt> ie did you just follow build-unix.txt?
3853 2011-05-24 21:54:39 alystair has joined
3854 2011-05-24 21:55:13 <BlueMatt> ok, what is the sha256 of your bitcoin after you strip it (current repo version) amd64
3855 2011-05-24 21:55:25 bitanarchy has joined
3856 2011-05-24 21:55:25 <sipa> wx2.8?
3857 2011-05-24 21:55:29 <BlueMatt> yea
3858 2011-05-24 21:55:30 <sipa> or wx2.9?
3859 2011-05-24 21:55:54 <BlueMatt> also is it 1579784 bytes?
3860 2011-05-24 21:56:03 <sipa> sec, building wx2.8 again
3861 2011-05-24 21:56:07 <bitanarchy> When will reserve private keys be added to the wallet file by the bitcoin client, so that the wallet does not change at every bitcoin spend?
3862 2011-05-24 21:56:28 <SerajewelKS> bitanarchy: it already does...
3863 2011-05-24 21:56:39 <SerajewelKS> bitanarchy: 100 keys are pre-generated and stored in the wallet for that reason
3864 2011-05-24 21:57:32 <bitanarchy> SerajewelKS: sins which version is that?
3865 2011-05-24 21:57:44 <SerajewelKS> bitanarchy: i don't know. it's been this way for at least a few months, probably longer.
3866 2011-05-24 21:57:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: 2363128 bytes here
3867 2011-05-24 21:58:03 <BlueMatt> sipa: after strip?
3868 2011-05-24 21:58:19 <sipa> no before; strip -s bitcoin ?
3869 2011-05-24 21:58:29 <BlueMatt> strip bitcoin
3870 2011-05-24 21:58:36 <bitanarchy> Remember that guy that spend 1 bitcoin to test if his backuped wallet worked?
3871 2011-05-24 21:58:46 <bitanarchy> Het had BTC8000 in his wallet
3872 2011-05-24 21:58:47 <sipa> with strip -s it's 1891216
3873 2011-05-24 21:58:57 <BlueMatt> wow, you have a ton more than me
3874 2011-05-24 21:59:01 <BlueMatt> why is yours bigger?
3875 2011-05-24 21:59:20 <sipa> with just strip it's also 1891216
3876 2011-05-24 21:59:37 <BlueMatt> yea strip -s == strip (I think)
3877 2011-05-24 21:59:56 <BlueMatt> with upnp?
3878 2011-05-24 22:00:06 <BlueMatt> so just make -f makefile.unix?
3879 2011-05-24 22:00:19 <bitanarchy> SerajewelKS: So does the bitcoin client warn you when the pre-generated keys are finished and it is creating new ones?
3880 2011-05-24 22:00:21 <sipa> $ make -f makefile.unix USE_UPNP=0
3881 2011-05-24 22:00:29 <SerajewelKS> bitanarchy: no, because it always is
3882 2011-05-24 22:00:32 <sipa> bitanarchy: it creates them continuously
3883 2011-05-24 22:00:40 <SerajewelKS> bitanarchy: as soon as you use one of the keys in the pool, it starts generating another
3884 2011-05-24 22:00:58 <SerajewelKS> bitanarchy: it's basically a ring buffer of keys
3885 2011-05-24 22:01:10 <sipa> BlueMatt: but you're using 11.04?
3886 2011-05-24 22:01:12 <BlueMatt> I get 2033216 then 1579784 after strip
3887 2011-05-24 22:01:16 <bitanarchy> SerajewelKS: But that undermines the whole idea of the pre-generated keys
3888 2011-05-24 22:01:19 <TD> sipa: any plans to do a gui for import/export of keys?
3889 2011-05-24 22:01:21 <SerajewelKS> bitanarchy: no it doesn't
3890 2011-05-24 22:01:21 <BlueMatt> shouldnt make a huge difference, at least not this much
3891 2011-05-24 22:01:38 <bitanarchy> SerajewelKS: How do you know when you need to backup your wallet again?
3892 2011-05-24 22:02:02 <SerajewelKS> bitanarchy: you should be backing up a lot more frequently than every 100 transactions...
3893 2011-05-24 22:02:05 <sipa> bitanarchy: bitcoin getinfo will tell you the date the oldest pool key was generated
3894 2011-05-24 22:02:45 <BlueMatt> sipa: can you send me your build?
3895 2011-05-24 22:03:15 <sipa> TD: i don't really have any intention to learn wx :)
3896 2011-05-24 22:03:47 <TD> nobody seems to want to change the gui
3897 2011-05-24 22:03:51 <TD> is it really so awkward?
3898 2011-05-24 22:03:54 * TD never looked at wx
3899 2011-05-24 22:04:08 <BlueMatt> no, its really not
3900 2011-05-24 22:04:10 <bitanarchy> You don''t want to know the oldest key in the unused key ring, but the date of the newest key in the used key ring. If that one is newer than your backuped walled, your backup is useless
3901 2011-05-24 22:04:42 <SerajewelKS> bitanarchy: if oldest key is newer than your backup, it's time to back up again
3902 2011-05-24 22:05:31 jivvz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3903 2011-05-24 22:05:37 <TD> sipa: ok. i'm wondering how to close the loop on this bitbills thing
3904 2011-05-24 22:05:46 <TD> requiring users to run command line tools to reclaim their bills is a non-starter
3905 2011-05-24 22:05:51 <sipa> agree
3906 2011-05-24 22:05:57 <SerajewelKS> TD: they can sell the bills back to the company
3907 2011-05-24 22:06:14 <sipa> or to anyone who trusts the issuer, actually
3908 2011-05-24 22:06:16 <TD> i guess it has to be a mobile app, really. otherwise i'm not sure how you'd get the contents of the qrcode through to your pc
3909 2011-05-24 22:06:18 <bitanarchy> SerajewelKS: Do you mean oldest key in your unused key ring?
3910 2011-05-24 22:06:25 <SerajewelKS> bitanarchy: of course
3911 2011-05-24 22:06:43 <TD> but that's annoying because of the need to download the full chain
3912 2011-05-24 22:06:56 <SerajewelKS> TD: ?
3913 2011-05-24 22:07:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: no scrolling issues of your build here
3914 2011-05-24 22:07:03 <SerajewelKS> TD: why does a qr-code reader need the blockchain
3915 2011-05-24 22:07:12 <sipa> it doesn't
3916 2011-05-24 22:07:13 <TD> sipa: would you consider making the format [version][uint32 earliest_block][uint32 latest_block][key][checksum] ?
3917 2011-05-24 22:07:31 <TD> for bitbills the two numbers would be equal
3918 2011-05-24 22:07:34 <sipa> SerajewelKS: but you need to rescan to find any transactions done to its address
3919 2011-05-24 22:07:39 <TD> you only need to download a single block
3920 2011-05-24 22:07:51 <SerajewelKS> sipa: right, but --> < TD> i guess it has to be a mobile app, really. otherwise i'm not sure how you'd get the contents of the qrcode through to your pc
3921 2011-05-24 22:07:57 <SerajewelKS> this statement is wrong
3922 2011-05-24 22:08:11 <TD> SerajewelKS: to redeem the bills you need to be able to spend the transaction
3923 2011-05-24 22:08:25 <SerajewelKS> TD: right. what's that got to do with scanning qr codes?
3924 2011-05-24 22:08:30 <TD> SerajewelKS: if you're happy with copy/pasting what you see on your phones screen into a command line window on a pc, no problem
3925 2011-05-24 22:08:34 <sipa> SerajewelKS: unless TD is lying and he *is* sure about how to do it, the statement is not wrong :)
3926 2011-05-24 22:08:49 <SerajewelKS> TD: heard of digital cameras?
3927 2011-05-24 22:08:51 <TD> if you want it to be fully done on the phone, need to process the chain
3928 2011-05-24 22:08:58 <sipa> SerajewelKS: too inconvient
3929 2011-05-24 22:09:03 <sipa> *inconvenient
3930 2011-05-24 22:09:09 <TD> i wouldn't know what app to use to scan a qrcode on mac/windows
3931 2011-05-24 22:09:11 <TD> i'm sure they exist
3932 2011-05-24 22:09:14 <SerajewelKS> webcam?
3933 2011-05-24 22:09:18 <SerajewelKS> srsly
3934 2011-05-24 22:09:28 <SerajewelKS> there are plenty of F/LOSS QR-code readers that will take webcam input
3935 2011-05-24 22:09:29 hybriz_ has joined
3936 2011-05-24 22:09:30 <hybriz_> hi
3937 2011-05-24 22:09:32 <SerajewelKS> hold it up to your laptop's cam
3938 2011-05-24 22:09:37 <hybriz_> is the developer of mybitcoin.com here ?
3939 2011-05-24 22:09:37 <sipa> TD: the barcode scan thing used on android has a normal java version too
3940 2011-05-24 22:09:43 <sipa> hybriz_: not that i know
3941 2011-05-24 22:09:44 <TD> zxing?
3942 2011-05-24 22:09:47 <sipa> yes
3943 2011-05-24 22:10:00 <hybriz_> i found some things that i wanted to share with him
3944 2011-05-24 22:10:03 <sipa> but still - way too inconvenient
3945 2011-05-24 22:10:09 <sipa> hybriz_: use the in-app message feature
3946 2011-05-24 22:10:18 <SerajewelKS> it's not inconvenient because of the qr-code scanner
3947 2011-05-24 22:10:22 <TD> sipa: the chain boundaries would be useful anyway
3948 2011-05-24 22:10:28 <sipa> yes i agree
3949 2011-05-24 22:10:34 <hybriz_> yeah i did, thought it could be faster through here
3950 2011-05-24 22:10:49 <SerajewelKS> if you think that's inconvenient you need to take a step back. cutting up a bitbill to extract a piece of paper is more inconvenient than running a program and holding up a paper to your webcam.
3951 2011-05-24 22:10:54 <SerajewelKS> that's the easy part
3952 2011-05-24 22:12:06 <SerajewelKS> i'd think it would be more of a pain to go get your phone, install some app, scan a code, yadda yadda
3953 2011-05-24 22:12:17 <TD> yeah, obviously, i'm assuming at some point the bitbills will get easier
3954 2011-05-24 22:12:32 <TD> (to open)
3955 2011-05-24 22:12:41 <TD> long term i think mobile wallets will be pretty common
3956 2011-05-24 22:12:47 <SerajewelKS> there's no reason someone couldn't code a GUI program that accesses your webcam and uses a F/LOSS QR-code parsing library to do all the key importing in one step
3957 2011-05-24 22:12:53 <TD> so being able to directly scan the money into your phone would be helpful
3958 2011-05-24 22:12:54 <SerajewelKS> open bitbill, hold paper up to cam, done
3959 2011-05-24 22:12:56 <SerajewelKS> no phone needed
3960 2011-05-24 22:13:07 <TD> sure, it can also be done this way
3961 2011-05-24 22:13:15 <TD> your bitcoin will need to be listening on the rpc port mind you
3962 2011-05-24 22:13:25 <TD> does it listen on localhost by default? i thought not
3963 2011-05-24 22:13:28 <x5x> do qr codes have a checksum ?
3964 2011-05-24 22:13:29 <SerajewelKS> or not running
3965 2011-05-24 22:13:33 <TD> because of web security issues
3966 2011-05-24 22:13:34 <sipa> TD: so you'd suggest a 45-byte sequence?
3967 2011-05-24 22:13:35 <SerajewelKS> x5x: yes, and error-correction data
3968 2011-05-24 22:13:38 <sipa> base58-encoded
3969 2011-05-24 22:13:46 <x5x> cool
3970 2011-05-24 22:13:51 <TD> sipa: yeah something like that
3971 2011-05-24 22:14:14 <TD> not sure. anyway, heading to bed.
3972 2011-05-24 22:14:27 <lfm> td bitcoind listens ofro prc localhost by default, bitcoin (gui) does not
3973 2011-05-24 22:15:11 <SerajewelKS> bitcoind doesn't listen at all by default
3974 2011-05-24 22:15:16 <sipa> TD: thing is, i prefer the private key format to be not more than just a private key - if you need meta-data around it, there is the wallet dump format
3975 2011-05-24 22:15:17 <SerajewelKS> because it has no user/password configured by default
3976 2011-05-24 22:15:18 m00p has joined
3977 2011-05-24 22:15:31 <sipa> TD: good night
3978 2011-05-24 22:16:33 <lfm> SerajewelKS: ya ok, but gui also needs -server switch
3979 2011-05-24 22:17:06 kluge has quit (Quit: ....)
3980 2011-05-24 22:19:13 <erbs> bitoin ftw
3981 2011-05-24 22:20:16 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3982 2011-05-24 22:20:17 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.2,"low":6.96,"vol":14207,"buy":7.0166,"sell":7.0166,"last":7.07}}
3983 2011-05-24 22:21:14 DiabloD3 has joined
3984 2011-05-24 22:21:28 Diablo-D3 has quit (Read error: No route to host)
3985 2011-05-24 22:23:01 <bitanarchy> how does bitcoin client remember the node addresses?
3986 2011-05-24 22:23:09 <BlueMatt> addr.dat
3987 2011-05-24 22:23:14 <nanotube> TD: seen bitcoinjs? a js interface to a https wrapper around bitcoind's jsonrpc. perfect for scatting money into your phone. :)
3988 2011-05-24 22:23:20 <bitanarchy> that is a big file
3989 2011-05-24 22:23:39 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
3990 2011-05-24 22:23:40 <phantomcircuit> bitanarchy, ~8MB
3991 2011-05-24 22:23:49 <phantomcircuit> which is actually pretty hilariously inefficient
3992 2011-05-24 22:24:09 <bitanarchy> is that 8MB of ip addresses?
3993 2011-05-24 22:24:18 <phantomcircuit> yes
3994 2011-05-24 22:24:20 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3995 2011-05-24 22:24:23 <phantomcircuit> and some metadata
3996 2011-05-24 22:24:24 <phantomcircuit> lol
3997 2011-05-24 22:25:03 <bitanarchy> then how come that I had to add nodes manually with the -addnode switch to make bitcoin client download the blocks... and still it has only 2 connections
3998 2011-05-24 22:25:24 <phantomcircuit> bitanarchy, the initial connections code is lol broken
3999 2011-05-24 22:25:47 <BlueMatt> not really, justt not working
4000 2011-05-24 22:26:04 <BlueMatt> %nodes with incoming connections was never thought through
4001 2011-05-24 22:26:15 <BlueMatt> +turnover in a real network
4002 2011-05-24 22:27:04 justmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4003 2011-05-24 22:27:07 <lfm> bitanarchy: how long has it run continuously?
4004 2011-05-24 22:27:14 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, yeah that was kind of what i meant :P
4005 2011-05-24 22:27:30 <BlueMatt> code doesnt need rewrite, just dnsseeds
4006 2011-05-24 22:27:33 <BlueMatt> (backend)
4007 2011-05-24 22:27:41 <BlueMatt> and dnsseed needs to be on by default
4008 2011-05-24 22:28:02 <lfm> bluematt is there any reason for nodes with NO incoming to advertise on irc?
4009 2011-05-24 22:28:04 <phantomcircuit> needs to have much smaller connect timeouts
4010 2011-05-24 22:28:17 <BlueMatt> lfm: nope, yet they do
4011 2011-05-24 22:28:18 <bitanarchy> I copied the config dir from windows client v3.17 to linux v3.21 to speed up....
4012 2011-05-24 22:28:19 <phantomcircuit> lfm, only way to get the list of nodes on irc
4013 2011-05-24 22:28:28 <phantomcircuit> lfm, they're one and the same
4014 2011-05-24 22:28:32 <lfm> thats what I thot
4015 2011-05-24 22:28:34 <BlueMatt> lfm: but you cant know if you can get incoming until you advertise and try
4016 2011-05-24 22:28:44 <bitanarchy> hope that will not give any problems
4017 2011-05-24 22:29:18 <bitanarchy> lfm: about an hour
4018 2011-05-24 22:29:21 <lfm> couldnt you find out the same way you find out your outside ip address?
4019 2011-05-24 22:29:59 <lfm> bitanarchy: ya, its taking longer than that these days. if its still poor after a day let us know
4020 2011-05-24 22:30:55 DiabloD3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4021 2011-05-24 22:31:14 <bitanarchy> How do you do a getinfo.... it is not a command line option
4022 2011-05-24 22:31:38 <sipa> ./bitcoin getinfo
4023 2011-05-24 22:31:46 <lfm> bitanarchy there is bitcoind -help and bitcoind help (without the dash) try both
4024 2011-05-24 22:31:47 <sipa> but you need either bitcoind or bitcoin -server running
4025 2011-05-24 22:32:08 <meLon> ;;bc,calc 400
4026 2011-05-24 22:32:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 400 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 83 years, 6 weeks, 3 days, 14 hours, 22 minutes, and 2 seconds
4027 2011-05-24 22:32:14 <meLon> ;;bc,calc 4000
4028 2011-05-24 22:32:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 8 years, 16 weeks, 2 days, 1 hour, 26 minutes, and 12 seconds
4029 2011-05-24 22:33:21 <bitanarchy> sipa: what does bitcoind do?
4030 2011-05-24 22:33:32 <sipa> same as bitcoin -server, but without GUI
4031 2011-05-24 22:33:42 <bitanarchy> what does bitcoin -server do?
4032 2011-05-24 22:33:55 <lfm> bitanarchy: for gui only really
4033 2011-05-24 22:33:57 <sipa> try it
4034 2011-05-24 22:34:30 <meLon> So, anybody else wonder if we're just playing mario? You know, hitting blocks for coins?
4035 2011-05-24 22:34:40 <bitanarchy> it wants me to set an rpcpassword
4036 2011-05-24 22:35:03 <lfm> meLon: hehe ya if bubble bursts then we could be for sure
4037 2011-05-24 22:35:33 <lfm> bitanarchy: okk, you have been running the gui then eh?
4038 2011-05-24 22:35:49 <bitanarchy> what is the rpcpassword for?
4039 2011-05-24 22:36:04 <meLon> Is there anything that prevents my 'pool' from competing for processing the same blocks as another pool?
4040 2011-05-24 22:36:31 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4041 2011-05-24 22:36:32 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4042 2011-05-24 22:36:43 <sipa> bitanarchy: to prevent just anyone from connecting to your daemon
4043 2011-05-24 22:36:53 <sipa> as that would effectively give them access to your savings
4044 2011-05-24 22:37:04 <bitanarchy> what is the daemon for?
4045 2011-05-24 22:37:14 <sipa> sorry, daemon = server
4046 2011-05-24 22:37:27 <bitanarchy> what is the server for then?
4047 2011-05-24 22:37:34 <sipa> to manage your wallet
4048 2011-05-24 22:37:37 <sipa> same as the GUI
4049 2011-05-24 22:37:45 <sipa> but without the GUI
4050 2011-05-24 22:37:51 <bitanarchy> you mean remote management of the wallet? why?
4051 2011-05-24 22:37:51 <sipa> you send it commands
4052 2011-05-24 22:37:52 <meLon> bitanarchy, you set up a daemon to gather 'blocks' Then you use clients to connect to YOUR daemon to get those blocks and process them
4053 2011-05-24 22:38:01 <sipa> meLon: no
4054 2011-05-24 22:38:10 <sipa> the daemon manages your wallet
4055 2011-05-24 22:38:19 NickelBot has joined
4056 2011-05-24 22:38:23 <meLon> And gathers blocks for your clients to process
4057 2011-05-24 22:38:25 <sipa> you just connect to it to inspect funds, or send transactions, or list them, ...
4058 2011-05-24 22:38:29 <sipa> meLon: no
4059 2011-05-24 22:38:39 <sipa> you're talking about a miner
4060 2011-05-24 22:38:46 <bitanarchy> so the gui also start up the daemon?
4061 2011-05-24 22:38:59 <sipa> bitanarchy: forget the word daemon, it's just a server
4062 2011-05-24 22:39:06 noagendamarket has joined
4063 2011-05-24 22:39:07 <bitanarchy> so the gui also start up the server?
4064 2011-05-24 22:39:12 <meLon> My miner (minerd) connects to my daemon (bitcoind) to receive blocks.
4065 2011-05-24 22:39:14 <sipa> and it starts the server if you pass it -server at start time
4066 2011-05-24 22:39:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: I think we need more testers...anyone care to test wx2.8 bitcoin version?
4067 2011-05-24 22:39:49 <meLon> Do I have a misunderstanding, sipa ?
4068 2011-05-24 22:39:55 <sipa> meLon: no, apologies
4069 2011-05-24 22:40:06 <sipa> meLon: but i was talking about a different use case
4070 2011-05-24 22:40:13 <meLon> <3 Just want to make sure I'm not going crazy
4071 2011-05-24 22:40:46 soossii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4072 2011-05-24 22:40:51 justmoon has joined
4073 2011-05-24 22:40:51 <BlueMatt> If anyone can can they grab this file and run it: (on linux 64-bit) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29653426/bitcoin
4074 2011-05-24 22:41:28 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: mind a short PM?
4075 2011-05-24 22:41:35 <hybriz_> if the mybitcoin guy in yet ?
4076 2011-05-24 22:41:36 <gjs278> I will do it
4077 2011-05-24 22:41:55 ahbritto has joined
4078 2011-05-24 22:42:02 <hybriz_> BlueMatt: why ?
4079 2011-05-24 22:42:14 <BlueMatt> hybriz_: its bitcoin built against wx2.8
4080 2011-05-24 22:42:20 <hybriz_> ah k
4081 2011-05-24 22:42:26 <BlueMatt> sipa is getting scroll lag, but Im not just wanted to see if anyone else ie
4082 2011-05-24 22:42:27 <BlueMatt> s
4083 2011-05-24 22:42:34 <gjs278> stoppping bitcoind
4084 2011-05-24 22:42:34 <hybriz_> im a bit paranoid, it could be a backdoor
4085 2011-05-24 22:42:37 <gjs278> dude
4086 2011-05-24 22:42:39 <hybriz_> do people run bitcoin as root ? :p
4087 2011-05-24 22:42:41 <gjs278> this is the real BlueMatt
4088 2011-05-24 22:42:47 <gjs278> we verified it earlier
4089 2011-05-24 22:42:51 <gjs278> also I'm going to run this as root
4090 2011-05-24 22:42:51 rhett_ has joined
4091 2011-05-24 22:42:51 <BlueMatt> lol
4092 2011-05-24 22:43:11 <BlueMatt> hybriz_: github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin.git wx2.8 branch
4093 2011-05-24 22:43:17 <hybriz_> :)
4094 2011-05-24 22:43:22 <gjs278> is this using db4.8
4095 2011-05-24 22:43:49 <bitanarchy> bitcoind is busy in the background... how do I call getinfo? Is says already busy...
4096 2011-05-24 22:43:51 npouillard has joined
4097 2011-05-24 22:43:55 <jgarzik> hybriz_: ?
4098 2011-05-24 22:44:17 <hybriz_> i was just observing the behaviour :) not questioning bluematt's legitness
4099 2011-05-24 22:44:22 <BlueMatt> gjs278: oh, yea I accidentally used db4.8 just rm -r ~/.bitcoin/database
4100 2011-05-24 22:44:24 <hybriz_> im a infosec fag
4101 2011-05-24 22:44:25 <jgarzik> hybriz_: are you expecting "the mybitcoin guy"? because we sure would love to meet him/her too...
4102 2011-05-24 22:44:26 <gjs278> alright
4103 2011-05-24 22:44:37 <gjs278> I copied .bitcoin anyways so I'm good to go
4104 2011-05-24 22:44:39 <hybriz_> jgarzik: i dunno, i found some "issues" in his site
4105 2011-05-24 22:44:44 <hybriz_> i wanted to report them and get them fixed
4106 2011-05-24 22:44:51 <hybriz_> not to cause fear or anything
4107 2011-05-24 22:44:58 <sipa> hybriz_: he has a message system in the site
4108 2011-05-24 22:45:03 <sipa> he reads it
4109 2011-05-24 22:45:09 <sipa> though not too frequently
4110 2011-05-24 22:45:16 <sipa> wait a few days
4111 2011-05-24 22:45:17 <hybriz_> yeah i sent him a message
4112 2011-05-24 22:45:20 <hybriz_> yeah
4113 2011-05-24 22:46:36 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
4114 2011-05-24 22:47:17 broker has joined
4115 2011-05-24 22:47:28 Clarence has joined
4116 2011-05-24 22:47:35 <BlueMatt> If anyone does test the wx2.8 version, see if any stings look off (missing chars, random chars, etc) and also, see if scrolling through your txes is slow?
4117 2011-05-24 22:48:59 <bitanarchy> I have bitcoind -server running.... but if I now type bitcoind -getinfo, it says that it cannot get a lock... why?
4118 2011-05-24 22:49:02 <gjs278> I'm still working out ./bitcoin-test: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.4.5/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.14' not found (required by ./bitcoin-test)
4119 2011-05-24 22:49:13 <gjs278> bastard deps
4120 2011-05-24 22:49:27 <BlueMatt> huhnow?
4121 2011-05-24 22:49:44 <BlueMatt> you must have a different libc
4122 2011-05-24 22:49:48 lebish has joined
4123 2011-05-24 22:49:49 sixyearolds has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4124 2011-05-24 22:49:50 <BlueMatt> what os/version?
4125 2011-05-24 22:50:04 <gjs278> gentoo
4126 2011-05-24 22:50:10 <gjs278> up to date as possible
4127 2011-05-24 22:50:11 <BlueMatt> ah, yep thats the proble
4128 2011-05-24 22:50:12 <BlueMatt> m
4129 2011-05-24 22:50:21 <Optimo> any good command-line json parsers?
4130 2011-05-24 22:50:31 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4131 2011-05-24 22:50:39 <BlueMatt> gjs278: you might compile it from github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin.git wx2.8 branch
4132 2011-05-24 22:50:44 <gjs278> alright I'll do that
4133 2011-05-24 22:51:25 <BlueMatt> though I manually set the path to wx-config, which probably needs changed (to the appropriate wx2.8 wx-config)
4134 2011-05-24 22:53:16 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4135 2011-05-24 22:53:53 <bitanarchy> is the bitcoin config map backwards compatible with newer clients?
4136 2011-05-24 22:54:24 <gjs278> I have 2.9 installed
4137 2011-05-24 22:54:35 <BlueMatt> do you also have 2.8 installed?
4138 2011-05-24 22:54:40 <gjs278> I can
4139 2011-05-24 22:54:42 skeledrew has joined
4140 2011-05-24 22:54:47 <BlueMatt> that is the whole point of this branch
4141 2011-05-24 22:55:06 <BlueMatt> did you manually install wx2.9?
4142 2011-05-24 22:55:57 darin has joined
4143 2011-05-24 22:56:50 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4144 2011-05-24 22:58:09 <gjs278> I'm installing 2.8 now
4145 2011-05-24 22:58:10 <dinox> Aww... cant get bitcoind to find any connections
4146 2011-05-24 22:58:12 <dinox> ver 0.3.22rc3
4147 2011-05-24 22:58:18 vorlov has joined
4148 2011-05-24 22:58:39 <gjs278> okay compiling bitcoin
4149 2011-05-24 22:58:42 eao has joined
4150 2011-05-24 22:58:57 <BlueMatt> dinox: know, very common issue...needs fixed
4151 2011-05-24 22:58:59 <BlueMatt> ...
4152 2011-05-24 23:00:48 <gjs278> I forgot to -j this
4153 2011-05-24 23:01:15 <lebish> anyone got namecoin compiled on centos? (following the pdf guide posted the other day for bitcoin)
4154 2011-05-24 23:01:21 <dinox> BlueMatt: Any quickfix avaliable?
4155 2011-05-24 23:01:30 <lebish> i'm getting obscure errors on namecoin.o if anyone has any ideas: http://pastebin.com/eQZu43kE
4156 2011-05-24 23:01:45 <BlueMatt> dinox: ,,(bc,wiki Fallback Nodes) -addnode some of those
4157 2011-05-24 23:01:45 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes | May 24, 2011 ... Before adding yourself as a fallback node, you should be sure your node will stay online for a long time. If a node is offline for more than ...
4158 2011-05-24 23:02:04 <gjs278> BlueMatt scrolling is fine
4159 2011-05-24 23:02:04 pyros1 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
4160 2011-05-24 23:02:16 <dinox> BlueMatt: I have at least 10 og those added in config, no difference
4161 2011-05-24 23:02:19 <dinox> of*
4162 2011-05-24 23:02:21 <BlueMatt> ha, sipa, Im not insane :)
4163 2011-05-24 23:02:27 <gjs278> what else do you want me to check
4164 2011-05-24 23:02:33 <sipa> BlueMatt: i never said i didn't believe you
4165 2011-05-24 23:02:37 <sipa> :)
4166 2011-05-24 23:02:45 <BlueMatt> sipa: I know, but I was doubting myself...
4167 2011-05-24 23:02:56 <BlueMatt> dinox: hm, now that indicates a more serious problem...
4168 2011-05-24 23:03:15 <BlueMatt> dinox: you did restart bitcoin after adding those?
4169 2011-05-24 23:03:38 <BlueMatt> dinox: can you -addnode=87.155.84.192
4170 2011-05-24 23:03:41 <dinox> BlueMatt: yes, of course
4171 2011-05-24 23:03:45 <dinox> ok
4172 2011-05-24 23:04:23 <bitanarchy> Again, what do I need to type to inspect the unused keyring in my wallet?
4173 2011-05-24 23:04:41 <sipa> bitanarchy: you can't
4174 2011-05-24 23:04:51 <sipa> or at least you're not supposed to
4175 2011-05-24 23:04:55 <BlueMatt> yes you can, via bitcointools
4176 2011-05-24 23:04:55 <gjs278> BlueMatt I don't see any missing characters or anything like that, this is fine
4177 2011-05-24 23:04:58 mologie_ has joined
4178 2011-05-24 23:05:11 <bitanarchy> Then how do I know when to backup my wallet again?
4179 2011-05-24 23:05:17 <BlueMatt> gjs278: thanks, I thought I had gotten most of that crap fixed, I was mostly wondering about scrolling
4180 2011-05-24 23:05:18 neoeinstein has joined
4181 2011-05-24 23:05:32 <BlueMatt> bitanarchy: now that, you cant know
4182 2011-05-24 23:05:40 <bitanarchy> haha
4183 2011-05-24 23:05:45 <sipa> bitanarchy: when the oldest timestamp of an address in the reserve keypool is newer than your latest backup
4184 2011-05-24 23:05:55 <BlueMatt> oh yea, forgot about that one
4185 2011-05-24 23:05:56 kensai has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
4186 2011-05-24 23:06:08 <bitanarchy> sipa: but how do I find out whether this is the case?
4187 2011-05-24 23:06:16 <sipa> run ./bitcoin getinfo
4188 2011-05-24 23:06:17 mologie has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4189 2011-05-24 23:06:17 darkmethod has joined
4190 2011-05-24 23:06:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: i do still get some (obscure) errors when running bitcoin in valgrind
4191 2011-05-24 23:07:07 <sipa> let me test whether the master has the same problems
4192 2011-05-24 23:07:14 <bitanarchy> ah, it is working... I typed -getinfo and that did not work
4193 2011-05-24 23:08:02 BurtyBB has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4194 2011-05-24 23:08:08 BurtyBB has joined
4195 2011-05-24 23:08:12 psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4196 2011-05-24 23:08:24 <dinox> BlueMatt: finally, -addnode=87.155.84.192 worked
4197 2011-05-24 23:08:41 <dinox> is that a node that will be up in the long run?
4198 2011-05-24 23:08:47 <BlueMatt> dinox: odd, maybe fallback nodes are out of date...that is up to MT to fix
4199 2011-05-24 23:09:00 <BlueMatt> dinox: no, its ip changes every 24 hrs, try dig bluematt.me
4200 2011-05-24 23:09:09 <meLon> Is there any way to have miners (minerd/poclbm) report their h/s to bitcoind ?
4201 2011-05-24 23:09:13 <BlueMatt> but some of those should be static, and should work well
4202 2011-05-24 23:09:21 <bitanarchy> sipa: what kind of date format is that?
4203 2011-05-24 23:09:33 <sipa> bitanarchy: seconds since 1 jan 1970, unix time
4204 2011-05-24 23:09:40 <dinox> BlueMatt: may I add hostnames in config file or is it just for ips?
4205 2011-05-24 23:09:58 <sipa> date --date "@123456790" will convert it to humen readable for you
4206 2011-05-24 23:10:02 <BlueMatt> just ips, but I think sipa's stuff fixes that...
4207 2011-05-24 23:10:11 <BlueMatt> sipa: is dns stuff in 0.3.22 rc?
4208 2011-05-24 23:10:12 <sipa> dinox: since 0.3.22 you can use hostnames, if you use -dns
4209 2011-05-24 23:10:22 <sipa> yes
4210 2011-05-24 23:11:21 <dinox> sipa: Ah nice
4211 2011-05-24 23:11:37 pyros1 has joined
4212 2011-05-24 23:12:15 <BlueMatt> also, sipa, will it figure it out if the connection goes offline and the ip changes after 10 minutes?
4213 2011-05-24 23:12:30 <sipa> no
4214 2011-05-24 23:12:38 <BlueMatt> mm
4215 2011-05-24 23:12:41 <sipa> lookup is only done during argument parsing
4216 2011-05-24 23:13:12 <BlueMatt> ok, thats what I thought
4217 2011-05-24 23:14:15 <bitanarchy> thanks a lot for the help
4218 2011-05-24 23:14:37 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
4219 2011-05-24 23:14:37 <dinox> But bitcoind will get nodes from other nodes as soon as it is up and connected, right?
4220 2011-05-24 23:15:39 <BlueMatt> yea but atm that doesnt work great
4221 2011-05-24 23:15:50 <BlueMatt> (the number of nodes not accepting incoming connection is way too huge)
4222 2011-05-24 23:16:41 Juffo-Wup has joined
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4225 2011-05-24 23:18:18 joepie91 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4226 2011-05-24 23:18:31 <devrandom1> BlueMatt - I think it would be ideal if bitcoin worked with tor hidden services. it's a way to work around the incoming connection issue (in addition to upnp).
4227 2011-05-24 23:18:34 Lethe^ has joined
4228 2011-05-24 23:18:37 joepie92 has joined
4229 2011-05-24 23:19:10 <BlueMatt> devrandom1: too slow for a reliable huge network like bitcoin imho
4230 2011-05-24 23:19:16 toffoo has joined
4231 2011-05-24 23:19:25 <BlueMatt> but also, making people run a tor node just to run bitcoin is way overkill
4232 2011-05-24 23:19:27 Clarence has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4233 2011-05-24 23:19:44 stuhood has joined
4234 2011-05-24 23:20:20 <devrandom1> just another option
4235 2011-05-24 23:20:37 <devrandom1> I think many of the people that are not reachable are actually behind tor
4236 2011-05-24 23:20:47 Lethe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4237 2011-05-24 23:20:48 Lethe^ is now known as Lethe
4238 2011-05-24 23:21:11 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
4239 2011-05-24 23:21:13 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126443 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 564 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 2 hours, 55 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 407310.07409410
4240 2011-05-24 23:22:17 <BlueMatt> god these pull requests are piling up ;)
4241 2011-05-24 23:22:32 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
4242 2011-05-24 23:22:50 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: pong
4243 2011-05-24 23:23:31 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I saw that I forgot to disable __WXDEBUG__ on the 0.3.22 builds...easily fixed, but just needs done for the next build, just thought I'd let you know
4244 2011-05-24 23:23:41 <BlueMatt> (makes a couple gui things lag)
4245 2011-05-24 23:24:12 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I'll pull a bunch of translations and tag -rc4 right now, then. sound good?
4246 2011-05-24 23:24:18 <BlueMatt> sure
4247 2011-05-24 23:24:24 <BlueMatt> (adding translations?)
4248 2011-05-24 23:24:30 <BlueMatt> oh, sorry didnt read
4249 2011-05-24 23:24:30 mosimo has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
4250 2011-05-24 23:24:34 <jgarzik> sipa, tcatm: ^^
4251 2011-05-24 23:24:53 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I think adding translations in -rc is ok. shouldn't cause regressions, knock on wood
4252 2011-05-24 23:25:00 <BlueMatt> yea...
4253 2011-05-24 23:25:03 <sipa> jgarzik: go ahead
4254 2011-05-24 23:26:00 AStove has quit ()
4255 2011-05-24 23:26:13 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
4256 2011-05-24 23:26:39 <BlueMatt> other fixes that could go in (IMHO): nsis installer fix (makes it work on the new dir structure), revert "OSX build tweaks", I spoke with lazslo on the matter and he had (also) misinterpreted the use of USE_UPNP
4257 2011-05-24 23:26:53 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Danube master * r08cf062 / (2 files): Add esperanto translation. - http://bit.ly/ku7PbU
4258 2011-05-24 23:26:54 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r95f748c / (2 files):
4259 2011-05-24 23:26:54 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #260 from TheBlueMatt/eotranslation
4260 2011-05-24 23:26:54 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Add esperanto translation. - http://bit.ly/jEgjf6
4261 2011-05-24 23:27:24 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * rec39b59 / (2 files):
4262 2011-05-24 23:27:24 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #259 from TheBlueMatt/rufix
4263 2011-05-24 23:27:24 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Update russian translation to latest git. - http://bit.ly/jfMGQN
4264 2011-05-24 23:28:09 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r1fcf6f0 / (2 files):
4265 2011-05-24 23:28:09 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #251 from TheBlueMatt/itfix
4266 2011-05-24 23:28:09 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Update Italian translation to latest git. - http://bit.ly/jD5mGi
4267 2011-05-24 23:28:30 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r32a1753 / share/setup.nsi :
4268 2011-05-24 23:28:30 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #249 from TheBlueMatt/nsisfix
4269 2011-05-24 23:28:30 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Update NSIS Installer file to support the new directory structure. - http://bit.ly/iJNwdv
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4272 2011-05-24 23:29:49 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: can you re-roll https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/254 ? I trust you being the *mo build guy.
4273 2011-05-24 23:30:07 <gjs278> crazy chinese hackers
4274 2011-05-24 23:30:10 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: one sec...
4275 2011-05-24 23:30:29 <sipa> if you give me 5 min i'll look at the dutch translation
4276 2011-05-24 23:30:59 <BlueMatt> sipa: I have a translation branch from which you can pull an updated po to translate (if you dont have poedit handy)
4277 2011-05-24 23:31:12 <jgarzik> sipa: is #255 (update tx already in wallet during rescan) -rc material?
4278 2011-05-24 23:31:34 <jgarzik> sipa: if it's not a regression, I'd prefer to leave it
4279 2011-05-24 23:32:27 Cusipzzz has joined
4280 2011-05-24 23:32:42 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
4281 2011-05-24 23:32:43 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.51,"low":6.96,"vol":28593,"buy":7.33,"sell":7.38,"last":7.32}}
4282 2011-05-24 23:32:43 <sipa> jgarzik: it's a fix for a reported bug on the forum recently
4283 2011-05-24 23:32:53 <sipa> jgarzik: i can't imagine how it could cause a regression, but maybe gavin had a reason (other than "shouldn't be necessary") for doing it the way it is done
4284 2011-05-24 23:33:06 <jgarzik> at -rc4, the preference even for bug fixes is to wait until version+1, so as to avoid perturbing -rc test results as much as possible. trying to ape the kernel's model of "only regression fixes during later -rc"
4285 2011-05-24 23:33:20 <jgarzik> linus will even turn down minor bug fixes in late -rc
4286 2011-05-24 23:33:21 <sipa> sure, let's wait with pulling
4287 2011-05-24 23:33:27 <Clarence> in soviet russia, bug's fix you!
4288 2011-05-24 23:33:34 knotwork has joined
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4291 2011-05-24 23:34:09 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: do you happen to know if zh_cn is a valid locale, or is it just 2 char codes like the rest valid?
4292 2011-05-24 23:34:24 <BlueMatt> if LC_ALL is set to de_DE it pulls from de, will it also pull from de_DE?
4293 2011-05-24 23:35:05 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: zh_CN (mainland china) or zh_TW (taiwan)
4294 2011-05-24 23:35:22 allied has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4295 2011-05-24 23:35:24 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: usually means simplified or traditional chinese, I think
4296 2011-05-24 23:35:50 <BlueMatt> ah, ok so wx will pull from zh... as well as zh in the locales folder then?
4297 2011-05-24 23:35:55 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ever manage to contact laszlo about osx build revert?
4298 2011-05-24 23:36:02 yasha2 has left ()
4299 2011-05-24 23:36:10 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: dunno
4300 2011-05-24 23:36:21 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea, I spoke with him briefly, he (also) misunderstood the meaning of USE_UPNP
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4302 2011-05-24 23:36:26 <BlueMatt> god that needs to go away asap
4303 2011-05-24 23:37:03 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: he's ok with the revert? mainly want to maintain friendly relations with an older member of the community, and would prefer not to revert without his assent.
4304 2011-05-24 23:37:05 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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4306 2011-05-24 23:37:36 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: "I will include upnp in the next release - I see what you mean now. Thanks for pointing that out, nobody else has said anything to me about it."
4307 2011-05-24 23:37:44 <BlueMatt> so...yea
4308 2011-05-24 23:37:50 <jgarzik> ok
4309 2011-05-24 23:38:00 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r54c465f / src/makefile.osx :
4310 2011-05-24 23:38:00 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #250 from TheBlueMatt/macbuildfix
4311 2011-05-24 23:38:00 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Revert "OSX build tweaks (laszlo)" - http://bit.ly/m72OVj
4312 2011-05-24 23:38:09 <BlueMatt> also https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin.git chfix has my mo
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4316 2011-05-24 23:46:45 <sipa> wow, that translation is more work than expected
4317 2011-05-24 23:46:53 <sipa> i'm almost done
4318 2011-05-24 23:48:06 allied has joined
4319 2011-05-24 23:48:11 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * rd21876c / (2 files): Merge branch 'chfix' of https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin into tmp - http://bit.ly/j7Ngaw
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4321 2011-05-24 23:49:52 <jgarzik> gotta run
4322 2011-05-24 23:50:03 <BlueMatt> bye
4323 2011-05-24 23:50:08 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, sipa: -rc4 source uploaded to https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.22/test/
4324 2011-05-24 23:50:19 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: alright, will have a build soon then
4325 2011-05-24 23:50:23 <jgarzik> sipa: sorry I missed the xlat, but can easily push into -rc5 before release
4326 2011-05-24 23:50:27 <jgarzik> translations are easy
4327 2011-05-24 23:51:57 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4328 2011-05-24 23:55:49 <sipa> BlueMatt: done
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4330 2011-05-24 23:56:08 <sipa> do i just send you the .po file, or via a pull request?
4331 2011-05-24 23:56:36 <BlueMatt> sipa: doesnt matter for you, for other I generate the binary mo's manually (trust issues)
4332 2011-05-24 23:56:49 <BlueMatt> msgfmt -o locale...bitcoin.mo locale...bitcoin.po
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