1 2011-05-25 00:00:51 allied has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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4 2011-05-25 00:01:54 <sipa> BlueMatt: meh git issues
5 2011-05-25 00:02:26 <BlueMatt> you can send me the po if you want...
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9 2011-05-25 00:09:13 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Pieter Wuille master * r645fc6e / (2 files): Updated dutch translation - http://bit.ly/kI7v0q
10 2011-05-25 00:09:14 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Pieter Wuille master * r344f76f / (2 files):
11 2011-05-25 00:09:14 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #261 from sipa/dutchloc
12 2011-05-25 00:09:14 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Updated dutch translation - http://bit.ly/iNBOx5
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22 2011-05-25 00:15:59 echelon_ is now known as echelon
23 2011-05-25 00:19:17 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Pieter Wuille master * ra9ea3cd / (2 files): Updated dutch translation - http://bit.ly/lp18Vn
24 2011-05-25 00:20:05 ]AoA[darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
25 2011-05-25 00:20:06 <BlueMatt> sipa: did you just rewrite public history???
26 2011-05-25 00:20:32 AAA_awright_ has joined
27 2011-05-25 00:20:35 <sipa> just my own last commit
28 2011-05-25 00:20:59 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
29 2011-05-25 00:21:04 * BlueMatt jumps out the window
30 2011-05-25 00:22:00 ]AoA[darbsllim has joined
31 2011-05-25 00:22:23 <BitterTea> Rewrite history... such power, sipa.
32 2011-05-25 00:23:59 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
33 2011-05-25 00:24:13 <KuT-Sickness> os there any way to limit the gpu usage the poclbm miner uses?
34 2011-05-25 00:24:18 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
35 2011-05-25 00:24:37 <KuT-Sickness> I've heard about finetuning the -w switch but none of what I've tried seems to affect it
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43 2011-05-25 00:31:19 <stuhood> i think i have a zombie transaction.
44 2011-05-25 00:31:26 <KuT-Sickness> my gpu goes > 85 degr celcius
45 2011-05-25 00:31:33 <KuT-Sickness> I'm think this is a bit high
46 2011-05-25 00:31:46 <KuT-Sickness> thinking*
47 2011-05-25 00:31:49 <stuhood> sent while my internet connection was spotty, i don't think it actually ever left my machine⦠but it's in my wallet
48 2011-05-25 00:33:38 <BitterTea> stuhood: If you leave Bitcoin running it will eventually rebroadcast
49 2011-05-25 00:33:52 soossii has joined
50 2011-05-25 00:34:06 <BitterTea> Otherwise, you can stop Bitcoin and start it with the -debug argument and it will tell you how many peers it has been sent to
51 2011-05-25 00:34:12 <stuhood> BitterTea: ok⦠it was a small tx, so i resent it: the second attempt has 3 confirmations
52 2011-05-25 00:34:29 <BitterTea> Oh, I've done that before and had problems when the second tx uses the first as an input
53 2011-05-25 00:34:50 <stuhood> BitterTea: thanks, i'll try with -debug
54 2011-05-25 00:35:20 <BitterTea> If you do that, just double click on the tx in the list and it will give you more information than normal
55 2011-05-25 00:35:50 <BitterTea> You can also try searching this page for the tx hash: http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin
56 2011-05-25 00:36:07 <BitterTea> It lists a lot of txs that are waiting to be included in a block
57 2011-05-25 00:36:24 <BitterTea> Wow, only 30 right now? Crazy, I haven't seen it under 300 in a while
58 2011-05-25 00:37:13 MemoryException has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
59 2011-05-25 00:37:19 <GarrettB> BitterTea: blocks are being found crazy fast
60 2011-05-25 00:38:48 ar4s has joined
61 2011-05-25 00:38:49 <BitterTea> ;;bc,stats
62 2011-05-25 00:38:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126467 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 540 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 42 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 410480.44190974
63 2011-05-25 00:38:58 <BitterTea> Damn
64 2011-05-25 00:39:25 <GarrettB> yeah, it appears to be do or die time
65 2011-05-25 00:39:27 <BitterTea> I'm curious if difficulty will level out in about the same amount of time as the price
66 2011-05-25 00:39:37 <BitterTea> Or if this time it will overshoot
67 2011-05-25 00:39:47 Rudycoin has joined
68 2011-05-25 00:40:07 <dinox> jgarzik: ping
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73 2011-05-25 00:44:56 <lulzplzk1hx> Is there a reason I can't connect to the Bitcoin network?
74 2011-05-25 00:44:58 <lulzplzk1hx> 0 connections?
75 2011-05-25 00:45:02 <lulzplzk1hx> I've quit and re-opened and it's still 0.
76 2011-05-25 00:45:21 <dinox> lulzplzk1hx: What version are you using?
77 2011-05-25 00:45:24 <lulzplzk1hx> It's been this way since the morning before yesterday @ 2 AM.
78 2011-05-25 00:45:31 <lulzplzk1hx> dinox: A custom build from Github.
79 2011-05-25 00:45:37 <lulzplzk1hx> Later than .3.21
80 2011-05-25 00:46:08 <lulzplzk1hx> Err, yesterday @ 2:30 AM.
81 2011-05-25 00:46:12 <lulzplzk1hx> 1:30*
82 2011-05-25 00:46:21 <BlueMatt> lulzplzk1hx: ok yesterday has been quite a while...have you -addnode'ed?
83 2011-05-25 00:46:22 <dinox> If its .3.22rc its a known problem.. try adding some nodes in config
84 2011-05-25 00:46:37 <BlueMatt> no, its a known problem in all bitcoins, nothing special to git/.22
85 2011-05-25 00:46:41 <lulzplzk1hx> No, I'll give it a shot. Still, it's weird that I'd have to... unless my port forwarding got messed up.
86 2011-05-25 00:46:49 <dinox> BlueMatt: Ahh
87 2011-05-25 00:47:00 <BlueMatt> though the irc chans changed, so you wont get any nodes via irc...
88 2011-05-25 00:47:05 <lulzplzk1hx> Nope, I removed the port forwarding.
89 2011-05-25 00:47:09 <lulzplzk1hx> Oh really?
90 2011-05-25 00:47:13 <BlueMatt> so I suppose it is special to .22...
91 2011-05-25 00:47:27 <BlueMatt> yea #bitcoin00 - #bitcoin99 instead of #bitcoin (on lfnet)
92 2011-05-25 00:47:36 <lulzplzk1hx> Why's that?
93 2011-05-25 00:47:40 <lulzplzk1hx> Too many in one chan I guess?
94 2011-05-25 00:47:42 <BlueMatt> #bitcoin was overflowing
95 2011-05-25 00:47:43 <BlueMatt> yea
96 2011-05-25 00:47:52 <BlueMatt> couldnt join and such
97 2011-05-25 00:47:57 <lulzplzk1hx> Is it random which number it joins?
98 2011-05-25 00:48:00 <BlueMatt> yea
99 2011-05-25 00:48:13 eao has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
100 2011-05-25 00:48:20 <lulzplzk1hx> C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\bitcoin.exe -addnode 173.224.125.222
101 2011-05-25 00:48:23 <BlueMatt> but still...should get from static nodes
102 2011-05-25 00:48:24 <lulzplzk1hx> I get a "Can't connect to server."
103 2011-05-25 00:48:30 <BlueMatt> -addnode=...
104 2011-05-25 00:48:38 <lulzplzk1hx> Thanks.
105 2011-05-25 00:48:43 <BlueMatt> when is the last time anyone checked that the static nodes are even online?
106 2011-05-25 00:48:55 <lulzplzk1hx> Well, that one is up according to WikiBot.
107 2011-05-25 00:49:10 <BlueMatt> wikibot hasnt run in quite a while...
108 2011-05-25 00:49:12 <lulzplzk1hx> MagicalTux hosts it.
109 2011-05-25 00:49:17 sethsethseth__ has joined
110 2011-05-25 00:49:20 <lulzplzk1hx> Well, I have 1 connections now.
111 2011-05-25 00:49:22 <BlueMatt> yea, hes kinda ... really busy atm
112 2011-05-25 00:49:23 <lulzplzk1hx> SO I suppose that worked.
113 2011-05-25 00:50:27 sethsethseth___ has joined
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115 2011-05-25 00:50:37 <lulzplzk1hx> 2 connections now, so it was probably the IRC issue?
116 2011-05-25 00:51:13 <BlueMatt> probably, that plus static nodes not working for some reason...
117 2011-05-25 00:51:46 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
118 2011-05-25 00:52:44 <DontMindMe> -addnode 78.55.252.4
119 2011-05-25 00:54:01 sethsethseth__ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
120 2011-05-25 00:54:15 soossii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
121 2011-05-25 00:54:22 <stuhood> BitterTea: that transaction sent finally. i'll probably run with -debug from here on, if it doesn't slow things down too much?
122 2011-05-25 00:54:46 soossii has joined
123 2011-05-25 00:54:52 <]AoA[darbsllim> hey guys - anyone know how much power 5970s take vs 6970s?
124 2011-05-25 00:56:30 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
125 2011-05-25 00:57:25 <GarrettB> 5970 takes more because it is a dual gpu
126 2011-05-25 00:57:31 <GarrettB> as opposed to a 6970 which is a single gpu
127 2011-05-25 00:57:40 <GarrettB> or do you mean 6990 vs 5970
128 2011-05-25 00:57:51 <GarrettB> in which case I believe that the 5970 uses less power
129 2011-05-25 00:58:49 <gjs278> ;;bc,blocks
130 2011-05-25 00:58:50 <gribble> 126469
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156 2011-05-25 01:35:05 <gmaxwell> Did anyone notice?
157 2011-05-25 01:35:06 <gmaxwell> http://blockexplorer.com/address/1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa
158 2011-05-25 01:35:11 <gmaxwell> The first bitcoin has been spent.
159 2011-05-25 01:35:36 kermit has joined
160 2011-05-25 01:35:41 maqr has quit (Quit: irssi fail :()
161 2011-05-25 01:36:21 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, inb4MASSIVESELLOFFEVERYBODYRUN
162 2011-05-25 01:36:40 <gmaxwell> oh, I'm an idiot.
163 2011-05-25 01:36:47 <gmaxwell> That a second RX to the same address.
164 2011-05-25 01:36:50 <phantomcircuit> lol
165 2011-05-25 01:36:51 <phantomcircuit> yes
166 2011-05-25 01:37:06 <phantomcircuit> which is kind of weird by itself
167 2011-05-25 01:37:23 <Clarence> what's it mean... should I sell?
168 2011-05-25 01:37:34 <gmaxwell> It means that I'm stupid. No worries.
169 2011-05-25 01:37:42 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: someone being silly.
170 2011-05-25 01:37:57 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, actually it looks like a receipt
171 2011-05-25 01:37:59 <phantomcircuit> er
172 2011-05-25 01:38:00 <phantomcircuit> change
173 2011-05-25 01:38:20 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: indeed it doesn't.
174 2011-05-25 01:38:36 <gmaxwell> Did older clients pay back change to random addresses in their wallets?
175 2011-05-25 01:38:46 <phantomcircuit> i think so
176 2011-05-25 01:38:49 <gmaxwell> s/doesn't/does/
177 2011-05-25 01:38:52 <gmaxwell> sweet.
178 2011-05-25 01:39:02 <phantomcircuit> http://blockexplorer.com/address/1AA2MKdGEv7kQZq2KXC5HdQcVaaCS8QcGE
179 2011-05-25 01:39:03 <gmaxwell> Satoshi lives.
180 2011-05-25 01:39:07 <phantomcircuit> hey look we found satoshi
181 2011-05-25 01:39:08 <phantomcircuit> lulz
182 2011-05-25 01:39:52 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell jgarzik 0.3.22 rc4 building...Im off to bed, should have them for you by morning
183 2011-05-25 01:39:52 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
184 2011-05-25 01:39:59 <gmaxwell> kinda funny if he was found due to an information leak with change.
185 2011-05-25 01:40:09 broker has quit (Quit: zisch)
186 2011-05-25 01:40:16 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: thanks
187 2011-05-25 01:41:17 mmoya has joined
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192 2011-05-25 01:49:04 <GarrettB> wait, one of the genesis blocks was used?
193 2011-05-25 01:50:39 <phantomcircuit> GarrettB, no some more coins were added to the address in the genesis block
194 2011-05-25 01:50:45 <phantomcircuit> ie satoshi gave hismelf away
195 2011-05-25 01:50:52 <phantomcircuit> or someone is just fucking with us
196 2011-05-25 01:51:39 yasha2 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
197 2011-05-25 01:52:29 <GarrettB> couldn't someone have just sent a coin to that address?
198 2011-05-25 01:52:31 <gmaxwell> Of course, anyone could send some coins there...
199 2011-05-25 01:53:17 <GarrettB> hmm, though is that a fee?
200 2011-05-25 01:53:24 <GarrettB> my bbe-fu is weak
201 2011-05-25 01:53:28 <doublec> it'll be more interesting if someone sends coins out of it
202 2011-05-25 01:53:35 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
203 2011-05-25 01:53:42 <gmaxwell> It looks a lot like change.
204 2011-05-25 01:53:46 x6763 has joined
205 2011-05-25 01:54:09 <stuhood> there is a loooot to be learned about the actual anonymity of bitcoin, but i have a feeling we'll discovery there really isn't any at all, except for newly minted coins
206 2011-05-25 01:54:14 <gmaxwell> doublec: yea, I was a doofus and misread the block explorer output at first and thought thats what had happened. :)
207 2011-05-25 01:54:35 <gmaxwell> stuhood: I don't think this is much of a surprise.
208 2011-05-25 01:54:49 BitterTea has quit (Quit: leaving)
209 2011-05-25 01:54:57 <gmaxwell> even newly minted coins don't have that muchâ you can assume people are logging what IPs they hear blocks from.
210 2011-05-25 01:54:59 <stuhood> a lot of people have yet to find out =)
211 2011-05-25 01:55:01 <stuhood> right
212 2011-05-25 01:55:58 ahbritto_ has joined
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214 2011-05-25 01:57:29 <phantomcircuit> stuhood, yes but it's trivial as hell to give yourself reasonable doubt
215 2011-05-25 01:57:41 <phantomcircuit> stuhood, simply send the btc in a way that looks liek you bought something
216 2011-05-25 01:59:57 <phantomcircuit> hmm
217 2011-05-25 02:01:11 <stuhood> i suppose if you could pretend that an address had been stolen?
218 2011-05-25 02:01:46 <stuhood> anyway, battery almost dead. back in a bit.
219 2011-05-25 02:01:55 stuhood has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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228 2011-05-25 02:11:35 <gjs278> ;;bc,blocks
229 2011-05-25 02:11:40 <gribble> 126487
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239 2011-05-25 02:17:26 datathe1st has joined
240 2011-05-25 02:17:43 <Juffo-Wup> Question: If you are running a pushpoold, how do you determine your overall hash rate or the hash rate of a specific user? Does each share require the same fixed number of hashes for completion?
241 2011-05-25 02:18:15 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: someone is fucking with us is my vote
242 2011-05-25 02:18:21 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: and gave satoshi coins for lulz
243 2011-05-25 02:18:34 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: and since you mentioned it, it worked ;P
244 2011-05-25 02:19:18 hereforfun has quit (Quit: Leaving)
245 2011-05-25 02:19:43 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: oh wait, there's actually sends from it, weird
246 2011-05-25 02:19:51 <doublec> Juffo-Wup: yes
247 2011-05-25 02:19:53 <datathe1st> If my bitcoin client shows 2 connections and then drops down to 1, what can I do to help it along
248 2011-05-25 02:19:59 <doublec> Juffo-Wup: erm, no
249 2011-05-25 02:19:59 <datathe1st> I'd like to connect to hundreds of nodes
250 2011-05-25 02:20:12 <doublec> Juffo-Wup: you can calculate an estimate based on the number of shares
251 2011-05-25 02:20:15 <jrmithdobbs> datathe1st: fix net.cpp to not suck
252 2011-05-25 02:20:23 <Juffo-Wup> Ok... So how many hashes per share on average?
253 2011-05-25 02:20:28 <doublec> Juffo-Wup: see http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=7613.0
254 2011-05-25 02:20:36 <Juffo-Wup> oh perfect, thanks!
255 2011-05-25 02:20:42 <jrmithdobbs> datathe1st: note: this is not an easy proposition
256 2011-05-25 02:20:44 deaf has joined
257 2011-05-25 02:21:01 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, no there are no sends from it
258 2011-05-25 02:21:36 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, all it needs is a shorter timeout lul
259 2011-05-25 02:21:40 <datathe1st> whats wrong with the net.cpp code?
260 2011-05-25 02:21:51 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: oh i see, you linked the account that sent TO it, haha
261 2011-05-25 02:22:00 <jrmithdobbs> datathe1st: lots.
262 2011-05-25 02:22:12 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: it needs a timeout period
263 2011-05-25 02:22:15 <datathe1st> well i do code for a living but shuold i really take a look at it?
264 2011-05-25 02:22:22 marlowe has joined
265 2011-05-25 02:22:24 sta-hi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
266 2011-05-25 02:22:37 <datathe1st> is it easy to check in / check out?
267 2011-05-25 02:22:43 <datathe1st> does bitcoin use git?
268 2011-05-25 02:22:52 <jrmithdobbs> yes github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
269 2011-05-25 02:22:53 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
270 2011-05-25 02:23:08 marlowe has quit (Client Quit)
271 2011-05-25 02:23:13 <datathe1st> maybe this weekend i'll take a look at it. thanks
272 2011-05-25 02:24:13 <datathe1st> is there an automatic wallet encryption / backup feature being worked on?
273 2011-05-25 02:24:53 <jrmithdobbs> datathe1st: ya should be in .4
274 2011-05-25 02:25:20 <jrmithdobbs> datathe1st: encryption is already done, the rpc commands to dump/restore wallet needs to be updated to work with it iirc
275 2011-05-25 02:25:37 <phantomcircuit> datathe1st, at your own risk
276 2011-05-25 02:27:18 <jrmithdobbs> and ya, net.cpp may melt your brain
277 2011-05-25 02:27:53 marlowe has joined
278 2011-05-25 02:28:17 <jrmithdobbs> (it's not really that bad)
279 2011-05-25 02:28:22 <datathe1st> hmm :S
280 2011-05-25 02:28:25 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
281 2011-05-25 02:28:43 <datathe1st> I am no tcp/ip expert so maybe I should just look at the bits I might understand
282 2011-05-25 02:28:55 <jrmithdobbs> don't worry, neither was satoshi!
283 2011-05-25 02:29:00 <jrmithdobbs> heh
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289 2011-05-25 02:35:13 <ar4s> would anyone happen to know why I don't see the directory "Bitcoin" in ~/Library/Application Support/ ?
290 2011-05-25 02:36:44 <devrandom1> BlueMatt yo
291 2011-05-25 02:37:15 <devrandom1> I'm not seeing an rss feed on http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/ anymore
292 2011-05-25 02:37:26 <devrandom1> am I looking at the wrong place?
293 2011-05-25 02:37:31 <jrmithdobbs> ar4s: because you haven't launched bitcoin yet or because you built it from source and it put everything in ~/.bitcoin instead
294 2011-05-25 02:39:07 <devrandom1> BlueMatt - found it http://sourceforge.net/api/file/index/project-id/244765/mtime/desc/limit/20/rss
295 2011-05-25 02:40:01 <ar4s> jrmithdobbs: Thanks for the reply. I downloaded 0.3.21-beta from weusecoins. It's in my applications folder, and it's running (has been for about a week now)
296 2011-05-25 02:40:37 <ar4s> ahh
297 2011-05-25 02:40:41 <lfm> ar4s try the official ver from bitcoin.org
298 2011-05-25 02:40:57 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
299 2011-05-25 02:41:00 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
300 2011-05-25 02:41:11 <ar4s> I will for sure, I can just delete the old one and the new one will pick up the same wallet (I assume?)
301 2011-05-25 02:41:26 <lfm> it should ya
302 2011-05-25 02:41:43 <ar4s> great, I'll give that a try
303 2011-05-25 02:42:12 marlowe has quit (Quit: leaving)
304 2011-05-25 02:44:18 <gjs278> # bitcoind start
305 2011-05-25 02:44:19 <gjs278> error: couldn't connect to server
306 2011-05-25 02:44:23 <gjs278> what did I miss
307 2011-05-25 02:45:04 <gjs278> nevermind that was obvious
308 2011-05-25 02:45:11 <doublec> bitcoind doesn't take a start argument
309 2011-05-25 02:45:20 <gjs278> yeah
310 2011-05-25 02:45:24 <doublec> I've done that too :)
311 2011-05-25 02:48:04 <jgarzik> + if (strMethod == "start")
312 2011-05-25 02:48:04 <jgarzik> + printf("vroom vroom\n");
313 2011-05-25 02:48:29 datathe1st has quit (Quit: Page closed)
314 2011-05-25 02:48:33 <doublec> good plan :)
315 2011-05-25 02:50:14 brunner has joined
316 2011-05-25 02:51:03 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
317 2011-05-25 02:52:20 <jrmithdobbs> so is anyone else worried about the fact that this next diff bump puts all the power in the hands of pools and companies that can front cash/dc space for 20+ nodes?
318 2011-05-25 02:53:49 <doublec> there's a thread in the forums with ideas to move away from the 'pools have the power' model
319 2011-05-25 02:54:03 <doublec> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9137
320 2011-05-25 02:54:28 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
321 2011-05-25 02:55:30 <jrmithdobbs> that doesn't fix the fact that .4 mil difficulty makes it unprofitable to mine without ~10 4x6970 nodes or better
322 2011-05-25 02:56:08 jrabbit has joined
323 2011-05-25 02:56:36 <jrmithdobbs> and even then doing so without pooling is quite risky at the rate cycles are being added to the network
324 2011-05-25 02:56:46 <jrmithdobbs> do the math
325 2011-05-25 02:56:58 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: How are you coming up with that figure?
326 2011-05-25 02:57:22 sgornick has joined
327 2011-05-25 02:58:34 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: .4 mil diff means 20Thash/s gets you a block on average every 9 days? which means you need MORE than that to solo mine if you actually want to hit a block before a diff change at the current growth rate?
328 2011-05-25 02:58:48 <jrmithdobbs> did you not notice the 33% growth in the last ~3-4 days?
329 2011-05-25 02:58:59 Transformer has joined
330 2011-05-25 02:59:10 <BitterTea> What about pools?
331 2011-05-25 02:59:27 BlueMattBot has joined
332 2011-05-25 02:59:37 <BitterTea> If you were just talking about solo mining then you have a point
333 2011-05-25 03:00:15 _ape has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
334 2011-05-25 03:00:20 <jrmithdobbs> still, assuming diff stays static for the entire time, pooling with 20Thash/s you're looking at 4 months to recoup costs of nodes alone
335 2011-05-25 03:00:26 <jrmithdobbs> and diff is not staying static for 4 months
336 2011-05-25 03:00:41 <jrmithdobbs> err 3 months
337 2011-05-25 03:00:51 <jrmithdobbs> not even factoring in power
338 2011-05-25 03:00:55 <BitterTea> Ok, so starting mining at .4mil isn't profitable
339 2011-05-25 03:01:01 <BitterTea> But continuing to mine will be
340 2011-05-25 03:01:05 Transformer has quit (Excess Flood)
341 2011-05-25 03:01:13 <jrmithdobbs> seriously did pixar/disney throw spare cycles at the network or something in the last 3 days?
342 2011-05-25 03:01:24 <BitterTea> I should say may not be and may be
343 2011-05-25 03:01:48 <BitterTea> Just catching up to the exchange rate I think
344 2011-05-25 03:02:08 <jrmithdobbs> and that all assumes the market doesn't pop it's bubble
345 2011-05-25 03:03:04 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: but sure, if you've already got ~20Thash/s of nodes you're running and have already recouped initial costs it will be profitable (not nearly as much) until it hits .5-.6
346 2011-05-25 03:03:16 <jrmithdobbs> but just barely
347 2011-05-25 03:03:27 <BitterTea> Have you seen this thread? http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9111.0
348 2011-05-25 03:03:47 <jrmithdobbs> no
349 2011-05-25 03:04:13 <phantomcircuit> is anybody accepting transactions without any confirmations into a block yet?
350 2011-05-25 03:04:17 <BitterTea> I thought it was pretty interesting
351 2011-05-25 03:04:29 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: What do you mean?
352 2011-05-25 03:05:04 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: funny, that's pretty close to the math that made me ask the above question.
353 2011-05-25 03:05:05 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, ill sell you 20 btc for 1 btc if you're willing to accept without any confirmations
354 2011-05-25 03:05:54 <BitterTea> hmm... if you're serious I'll take it, how do you suggest we proceed?
355 2011-05-25 03:06:04 <phantomcircuit> a gambler i see...
356 2011-05-25 03:06:18 <BitterTea> are you going to try to race the transaction and double spend? :)
357 2011-05-25 03:06:23 <jrmithdobbs> do it because i want to see what phantomcircuit has up his sleave
358 2011-05-25 03:06:29 <jrmithdobbs> sleeve
359 2011-05-25 03:06:41 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, WHO ME??
360 2011-05-25 03:06:42 <BitterTea> I'm fine with that for at 20:1
361 2011-05-25 03:06:51 BlueMatt has joined
362 2011-05-25 03:07:23 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: that thread doesn't take into account cost of cooling upgrades and ac power usage
363 2011-05-25 03:07:34 <jrmithdobbs> and renting space
364 2011-05-25 03:07:42 <jrmithdobbs> s/renting/leasing/
365 2011-05-25 03:07:49 <BitterTea> it does take into account electricity costs, but why would cooling need to be upgraded?
366 2011-05-25 03:08:05 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: you've never built out dc space i see
367 2011-05-25 03:08:11 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, no race :P
368 2011-05-25 03:08:16 <BitterTea> I have a computer that is running all the time anyway, mining at 270mhash is still profitable and will be for some time
369 2011-05-25 03:08:35 genjix has joined
370 2011-05-25 03:08:48 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: You send 20BTC to the following address, and as soon as I see it I will send you 1 BTC... 14cXXHnkbLH51kNNZK7sm2pceFuxsrQUmU
371 2011-05-25 03:08:52 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: if you're trying to scale it cooling planning/upgrades is a requirement, this shit generates massive heat
372 2011-05-25 03:08:52 <genjix> willing to offer 20 BC for 1 BC if you accept 0 confirms
373 2011-05-25 03:08:55 <genjix> o shit
374 2011-05-25 03:09:06 <genjix> no the other way around.
375 2011-05-25 03:09:09 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: I'm assuming no additional infrastructure upgrades
376 2011-05-25 03:09:34 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: but anyone wanting to do it at a scale that'll make any appreciable ammount of money has to take that into account
377 2011-05-25 03:10:12 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: Increasing mining capacity may not continue to be profitable, but continuing to mine at your current capacity should be for some time
378 2011-05-25 03:10:31 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: unless you've not fully recouped costs already
379 2011-05-25 03:10:51 <BitterTea> So it would be better to stop mining altogether, and recoup no more costs? Or sell the capital invested so far?
380 2011-05-25 03:10:57 <jrmithdobbs> which is the situation anyone doing it at scale that hasn't been doing it as long as ArtForz is in
381 2011-05-25 03:11:13 <BitterTea> I think you're underestimating the number of hobbyist miners
382 2011-05-25 03:11:39 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: i'm pretty sure 33% increase in cycles in 72-96 hours did not come from hobbyists.
383 2011-05-25 03:11:43 <gjs278> for me it makes sense to mine for a long time
384 2011-05-25 03:11:57 ]AoA[darbsllim has joined
385 2011-05-25 03:12:00 <gjs278> the electric is only like $50 - $80 for the month
386 2011-05-25 03:12:09 <gjs278> I make that back in 1 - 2 days at the moment
387 2011-05-25 03:12:19 deaf has quit ()
388 2011-05-25 03:12:30 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: if these people who have invested the kind of money necessary to do it at scale bail txns are going to scream to a halt and the whole thing is going to come crashing down
389 2011-05-25 03:13:07 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: what happens to mtgox when blocks are genned, say, once every 1-2 hours
390 2011-05-25 03:13:18 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: i'll tell you what. it crashes through the floor.
391 2011-05-25 03:13:47 <BitterTea> I think you have it backwards
392 2011-05-25 03:13:59 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
393 2011-05-25 03:14:03 okowl has joined
394 2011-05-25 03:14:03 <BitterTea> if the exchange rate drops, miners will stop mining, and the difficulty will decrease
395 2011-05-25 03:15:07 <okowl> Hi, I have a question: What prevents the seller of an item from not sending the item after receiving Bitcoins from the buyer?
396 2011-05-25 03:15:12 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: sure it will eventually decrease
397 2011-05-25 03:15:12 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: Did you chicken out, or are you charging the Double Spending Ray? :)
398 2011-05-25 03:15:23 <genjix> charging the lasers
399 2011-05-25 03:15:24 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: do you realise how long 2016 blocks will take at 1 every 1-2 hours?
400 2011-05-25 03:15:29 <genjix> please be patient.
401 2011-05-25 03:15:30 <bd_> BitterTea: Yep. But if it drops too fast, it would take a while to recover. For example, if mining capacity drops by 6x overnight, it'll take up to 12 weeks to adjust
402 2011-05-25 03:15:35 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: 2 weeks
403 2011-05-25 03:15:40 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: Oops, bad math
404 2011-05-25 03:15:42 stuhood has joined
405 2011-05-25 03:15:48 <jrmithdobbs> was gonna say.
406 2011-05-25 03:15:55 <jrmithdobbs> take the median of 1.5 hours/block
407 2011-05-25 03:16:05 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: I don't think it will drop that quickly, but I agree that it takes longer to come down from a difficulty bubble than to inflate one
408 2011-05-25 03:16:08 <jrmithdobbs> and ignore the fact that once this happens more miners will drop off
409 2011-05-25 03:16:18 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, wat no double spending! NEVER!
410 2011-05-25 03:17:08 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: Make sure to give me your address and wait for me to confirm I'm ready before you send
411 2011-05-25 03:17:13 <BitterTea> (if you do)
412 2011-05-25 03:17:15 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: there's a bunch of people about to realise that they can't recoup their current debt without quadrupling capacity (adding more debt)
413 2011-05-25 03:17:38 <okowl> i, I have a question: What prevents the seller of an item from not sending the item after receiving Bitcoins from the buyer?
414 2011-05-25 03:17:40 <BitterTea> You're still assuming that is not profitable to mine currently
415 2011-05-25 03:17:48 _ape has joined
416 2011-05-25 03:17:53 <BitterTea> okowl: You can use an escrow service like ;;ClearCoin
417 2011-05-25 03:17:56 <BitterTea> ;;ClearCoin
418 2011-05-25 03:17:56 <gribble> Error: "ClearCoin" is not a valid command.
419 2011-05-25 03:18:02 <bd_> okowl: Nothing. What stops the seller of an item from not sending the item after receiving real coins from a buyer?
420 2011-05-25 03:18:03 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: either they are going to try and sell of the hardware at a small loss with less risk (fucking the network) or they're going to buy more hardware, go into more debt, and postpone the former while ballooning difficulty further (further fucking the network)
421 2011-05-25 03:18:04 <BitterTea> help
422 2011-05-25 03:18:26 <okowl> Thanks!
423 2011-05-25 03:18:28 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: Or they will continue mining, selling bitcoins at a profit *now* to cover their *possible* future deficits
424 2011-05-25 03:18:44 <bd_> BitterTea: That's a loss if it doesn't cover electricity
425 2011-05-25 03:19:08 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: which .4 mil diff is *very* close to not being able to do. (not cover elec costs that is)
426 2011-05-25 03:19:08 <BitterTea> okowl: Also, check in #bitcoin-otc also, there's a rating system they use that can help you identify trustworthy people
427 2011-05-25 03:19:24 <BitterTea> According to the thread I linked, that is not true
428 2011-05-25 03:19:42 <okowl> BitterTea: Thanks
429 2011-05-25 03:19:43 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: for people who have already recouped hw costs it is still
430 2011-05-25 03:19:43 <BitterTea> I have a 5850 which does 270mhash/s
431 2011-05-25 03:20:00 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: for the people who have bought in in the last 30 days and have not .....
432 2011-05-25 03:20:05 <gjs278> my 5850 from may 5th just paid itself off
433 2011-05-25 03:20:06 <jrmithdobbs> less risky to sell off hw at a small loss
434 2011-05-25 03:20:09 <gjs278> about two days ago
435 2011-05-25 03:20:20 <GarrettB> lol people who bought in heavily a few weeks ago (in hardware)
436 2011-05-25 03:20:22 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: talking large scale ops
437 2011-05-25 03:20:23 <GarrettB> poor scrubs
438 2011-05-25 03:20:28 <BitterTea> They also stand to gain much more if the exchange rate does go up, or others drop out
439 2011-05-25 03:20:37 Juffo-Wup has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
440 2011-05-25 03:20:45 <BitterTea> The people who are more risk averse may stop mining, but that will decrease the difficulty
441 2011-05-25 03:20:46 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: but enough drop out to fuck block gen rate it's all moot
442 2011-05-25 03:20:48 <GarrettB> I can't believe people bought shares of dishwara's company
443 2011-05-25 03:21:22 <BitterTea> I really don't see a significant portion of miners who have large amounts of capital and debt suddenly quitting mining altogether
444 2011-05-25 03:21:36 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: dropping block gen rate to 1.5 hour median *right now* will crash the market
445 2011-05-25 03:21:37 <BitterTea> GarrettB: Yeah, me either
446 2011-05-25 03:21:42 <jrmithdobbs> period.
447 2011-05-25 03:21:53 <jrmithdobbs> and this is a real possibilty once people start running the numbers
448 2011-05-25 03:22:25 <jrmithdobbs> sure diff will eventually recover
449 2011-05-25 03:22:32 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: 1.5 hour median means 8/9 of all miners suddenly drop out
450 2011-05-25 03:22:36 <BitterTea> Do you really think that will happen?
451 2011-05-25 03:22:52 <BitterTea> Also, how will miners dropping out "crash the market"?
452 2011-05-25 03:22:53 <okowl> bd_: You're right, but eBay does a really good job of ensuring buyer/seller security.
453 2011-05-25 03:23:25 <bd_> okowl: paypal isn't cash. Think of bitcoin as cash - coins in your pocket. If you give a coin to someone, and they run away, you're stuck.
454 2011-05-25 03:23:30 <BitterTea> Difficulty has been pretty clearly lagging price for a while now, not the other way around
455 2011-05-25 03:23:30 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
456 2011-05-25 03:23:31 <gribble> 126497
457 2011-05-25 03:23:35 <bd_> paypal has transaction reversals and insurance
458 2011-05-25 03:24:14 <davex__> GarrettB, that exchange scares me. where is all the invested capital? just sitting on an exchange wallet somewhere?
459 2011-05-25 03:24:24 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: you sure on your math there?
460 2011-05-25 03:24:27 <davex__> i'd read more about it but i can't find much
461 2011-05-25 03:24:29 <GarrettB> davex__: no idea
462 2011-05-25 03:24:31 <GarrettB> ask Nefario
463 2011-05-25 03:24:35 <BitterTea> davex__: Which exchange? GSBSE?
464 2011-05-25 03:24:37 <davex__> yeah
465 2011-05-25 03:24:37 <GarrettB> I'd imagine a secure server
466 2011-05-25 03:24:38 <BitterTea> *GLBSE
467 2011-05-25 03:24:41 gruez has joined
468 2011-05-25 03:24:46 <GarrettB> BitterTea: you mean GLOBSEX?
469 2011-05-25 03:24:47 <GarrettB> :O
470 2011-05-25 03:24:48 <GarrettB> :P
471 2011-05-25 03:24:52 <BitterTea> No, when you buy shares, the coins to go the issuer of shares
472 2011-05-25 03:24:54 <lfm> bittertea one way miners dropping out can cause a problem is the block rate gets very slow untill the next difficulty update. if like 80% of the miners quit at once then the block rate would be 1/5th and it could take 10 weeks till the next difficulty update
473 2011-05-25 03:24:58 Beremat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
474 2011-05-25 03:25:07 <davex__> oh...
475 2011-05-25 03:25:15 <BitterTea> lfm: I understand, I just don't think that a large percentage of miners will drop out suddenly
476 2011-05-25 03:25:30 <lfm> BitterTea: I dont think so either
477 2011-05-25 03:25:51 <davex__> so issuer can just take the coins and run
478 2011-05-25 03:25:57 <BitterTea> davex__: Yeah, it works like a stock market, but there are very few barriers to entry\
479 2011-05-25 03:26:03 <BitterTea> They can, yes
480 2011-05-25 03:26:08 <devrandom1> jrmithdobbs - I don't agree with your statement that "that doesn't fix the fact that .4 mil difficulty makes it unprofitable to mine without ~10 4x6970 nodes or better"
481 2011-05-25 03:26:26 <BitterTea> Which is why you only buy shares from people you trust won't do that :)
482 2011-05-25 03:26:30 <gruez> I dont get it
483 2011-05-25 03:26:33 <devrandom1> jrmithdobbs - mining is profitable at any scale and will remain so
484 2011-05-25 03:26:46 <lfm> doesnt really matter how many 6970s you have they are all the same efficiency
485 2011-05-25 03:26:48 <gruez> Why do people use 6990?
486 2011-05-25 03:26:56 <BitterTea> devrandom1: I will say that CPU mining, if profitable now, will not be in the near future
487 2011-05-25 03:27:01 <gruez> Just use 5850
488 2011-05-25 03:27:02 <BitterTea> *probably
489 2011-05-25 03:27:07 <devrandom1> jrmithdobbs - the price per BTC scales with the difficulty. it doesn't matter when you find a block, if you mine solo
490 2011-05-25 03:27:14 <gruez> More cost effective
491 2011-05-25 03:27:18 <BitterTea> gruez: You need fewer computer systems for the same hash rate, theoretically
492 2011-05-25 03:27:25 <devrandom1> BitterTea - you mean GPU?
493 2011-05-25 03:27:28 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom1: not true, price has not been affected by the last to 50% diff bumps
494 2011-05-25 03:27:34 <jrmithdobbs> s/to/two/
495 2011-05-25 03:27:41 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom1: it's actually devalued
496 2011-05-25 03:27:44 <lfm> BitterTea: depends how the btc price goes too tho. if the price skyrockets again/more then cpus could be economical again
497 2011-05-25 03:27:49 <BitterTea> devrandom1: No, I mean CPU mining. I think it might *not* be profitable now, but if it is, I don't think it will be for much longer at all
498 2011-05-25 03:27:52 backwardation25 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
499 2011-05-25 03:28:07 <BitterTea> lfm: True, but only until the difficulty catches back up
500 2011-05-25 03:28:14 <lfm> yup
501 2011-05-25 03:28:23 <devrandom1> mining has an 40% - 80% profit margin last time I checked
502 2011-05-25 03:28:32 <devrandom1> it bounces between these, but is always profitable
503 2011-05-25 03:28:43 <gruez> Fuck
504 2011-05-25 03:28:47 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom1: do the numbers again at .4mil diff
505 2011-05-25 03:28:52 <lfm> devrandom depending what expenses you include and what your power rates are
506 2011-05-25 03:28:54 <gruez> Really?
507 2011-05-25 03:28:55 Beremat has joined
508 2011-05-25 03:28:58 <devrandom1> the increases in BTC value and difficulty are not in sync on a daily basis, but they are on a monthly basis
509 2011-05-25 03:29:02 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom1: it degrades greatly even assuming we stay close to $7usd/btc
510 2011-05-25 03:29:08 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
511 2011-05-25 03:29:13 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom1: especially if you're adding capacity
512 2011-05-25 03:29:15 <gruez> I thought it was 10
513 2011-05-25 03:29:26 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: The difficulty will come to an equilibrium at a certain exchange rate
514 2011-05-25 03:29:30 <devrandom1> jrmithdobbs - the price will adjust
515 2011-05-25 03:29:43 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom1: history doesn't agree with you
516 2011-05-25 03:29:54 <devrandom1> nobody will mine at a loss
517 2011-05-25 03:29:57 MemoryException has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
518 2011-05-25 03:29:57 gruez has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
519 2011-05-25 03:29:58 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom1: the markets are literally insane right now and don't seem to be adjusting to real world events
520 2011-05-25 03:29:58 <okowl> bd_: Like cash, the use of Bitcoins in user to user (not so much in user to website/company) transactions is at your own risk. Scary/different, but I get it.
521 2011-05-25 03:30:04 <stuhood> the pool of miners expands or contracts to match the value of the BTC in the system⦠i agree with devrandom1
522 2011-05-25 03:30:10 <lfm> gruez the price went up to nearly $10 a couple weeks ago but then it dropped to $6 or 7 since
523 2011-05-25 03:30:12 <devrandom1> and if mining is profitable, it is profitable at all scales, as long as the hardware is comparable
524 2011-05-25 03:30:34 <jrmithdobbs> stuhood: then why has it devalued from two weeks ago with an almost 100% diff increase?
525 2011-05-25 03:30:40 <stuhood> devrandom1: but, there is such thing as having too many miners to match the BTC value of the system
526 2011-05-25 03:30:48 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: Difficulty *follows* price
527 2011-05-25 03:30:59 <phantomcircuit> devrandom1, a lot of the miners are operating essentially without capital costs, they bought the gpu for gaming and btc mining is simply gravy
528 2011-05-25 03:31:00 <stuhood> jrmithdobbs: one was high, one was low
529 2011-05-25 03:31:00 <davex__> ++BitterTea
530 2011-05-25 03:31:01 <BitterTea> Difficulty is increasing because the price increased from ~$1 to ~$7
531 2011-05-25 03:31:05 <devrandom1> it is true the risk of variance (being an outlier and taking an extra long time to find a block) is higher at a smaller scale
532 2011-05-25 03:31:50 <stuhood> devrandom1: eh...
533 2011-05-25 03:31:50 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom1: .4mil diff means it's basically impossible to find a block before diff change without ~20Ghash/s or greater
534 2011-05-25 03:31:51 <BitterTea> It takes time for people to acquire more hardware, set it up, and start mining. That is why the difficulty is increasing
535 2011-05-25 03:32:11 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom1: which means everyone migrates to pools
536 2011-05-25 03:32:20 <BitterTea> So?
537 2011-05-25 03:32:23 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom1: which increases instability of the network
538 2011-05-25 03:32:25 Aexoden has quit (Quit: Goodbye, cruel world!)
539 2011-05-25 03:32:45 <sipa> ;;bc,probd 400000 10d
540 2011-05-25 03:32:45 <gribble> Error: "bc,probd" is not a valid command.
541 2011-05-25 03:32:46 <devrandom1> there will be more pools...
542 2011-05-25 03:32:49 <stuhood> there is a maximum interesting pool size though
543 2011-05-25 03:32:58 <jrmithdobbs> if a handful of centralized organizations control 50-90% of the block generations
544 2011-05-25 03:33:02 <erbs> sup yall
545 2011-05-25 03:33:06 <BitterTea> How many pools are there now? It seems like the number has exploded in the past month
546 2011-05-25 03:33:07 <jrmithdobbs> then it kind of defeats the purpose
547 2011-05-25 03:33:19 <sipa> no it doesnt
548 2011-05-25 03:33:26 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: explain.
549 2011-05-25 03:33:27 <BitterTea> No it doesn't defeat the purpose, and there designs for decentralized pools being created now
550 2011-05-25 03:33:59 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: whats to prevent them from colluding to influence the market?
551 2011-05-25 03:34:10 <jrmithdobbs> "market forces"?
552 2011-05-25 03:34:11 <lfm> but bitcoin itself is a decentralized pool, seems redundant
553 2011-05-25 03:34:12 <jrmithdobbs> ha
554 2011-05-25 03:34:31 <stuhood> jrmithdobbs: yes⦠because there is no advantage to joining a pool larger than a certain size
555 2011-05-25 03:34:31 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: that only works when your market is semi-sane to begin with
556 2011-05-25 03:34:32 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: People will leave pools that play dirty
557 2011-05-25 03:34:45 <BitterTea> And you are *assuming* that the market is insane
558 2011-05-25 03:34:58 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
559 2011-05-25 03:34:59 <lfm> BitterTea: if the dirty tricks are detectable
560 2011-05-25 03:35:15 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: it obviously is when one guy selling +/-200btc can hold a cap on mtgox
561 2011-05-25 03:35:25 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: What?
562 2011-05-25 03:35:26 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: you can go watch it happen.
563 2011-05-25 03:35:32 <BitterTea> Explain please
564 2011-05-25 03:35:50 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, 200 btc cant do that for long
565 2011-05-25 03:35:55 <stuhood> basically, if you assume that miners are happy with being paid once a day, then there is no reason to be in a pool that controls more than 1/144th of the cpu power
566 2011-05-25 03:35:59 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, also remember that 200 btc is 1400 USD
567 2011-05-25 03:36:05 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: i'm aware
568 2011-05-25 03:36:20 <BitterTea> btw, if you're interested in the decentralized pool idea I mentioned... http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7737.msg138118#msg138118
569 2011-05-25 03:36:21 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: but it can influence it for long enough to prove my point
570 2011-05-25 03:36:23 <lfm> what do you mean "hold a cap on"?
571 2011-05-25 03:36:25 ]AoA[darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
572 2011-05-25 03:36:35 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: that this market is insane
573 2011-05-25 03:36:40 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, sure but it'll cost you 1400 usd ;)
574 2011-05-25 03:36:44 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: I assert that *you* are insane
575 2011-05-25 03:36:57 <devrandom1> lfm - he means that the current price is often held by just one person with a small number of BTC
576 2011-05-25 03:36:59 geryon__ has joined
577 2011-05-25 03:37:11 ]AoA[darbsllim has joined
578 2011-05-25 03:37:18 <lfm> BitterTea: he calls what he doesnt understand "insane". its what most people do really
579 2011-05-25 03:37:21 <BitterTea> devrandom1: That's hard to prove, and it seems completely contradictory to observation
580 2011-05-25 03:37:56 <devrandom1> it seems neither here nor there, because it's true in both directions
581 2011-05-25 03:37:57 DontMindMe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
582 2011-05-25 03:38:02 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: eg, that plummet under 7 the other day where it kept almost bumping back over was a handful of people, you could watch the exact ammounts of asks move down and push it lower
583 2011-05-25 03:38:03 <devrandom1> it just means that things are volatile
584 2011-05-25 03:38:29 <jrmithdobbs> err under 6 i mean
585 2011-05-25 03:38:30 <davex__> The asks aren't pushing it lower.
586 2011-05-25 03:38:38 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: Are you The One? How do you divine this information?
587 2011-05-25 03:38:39 <davex__> it's the guys that are taking the asks
588 2011-05-25 03:38:42 genjix has left ()
589 2011-05-25 03:38:58 <davex__> or vice-versa. on the way up an hour ago, somebody bought 6000 btc
590 2011-05-25 03:39:01 <sipa> BitterTea: see http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3461.0
591 2011-05-25 03:39:07 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: well anyone who understands the "depth" charts can see what it is and adjust their thinking appropriatly
592 2011-05-25 03:39:21 <devrandom1> there will be less volatility with more players in the market
593 2011-05-25 03:39:36 MemoryException has joined
594 2011-05-25 03:39:44 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: but most people selling at the moment don't understand them, that was the meaning of my "insane" comments
595 2011-05-25 03:39:59 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
596 2011-05-25 03:40:03 <devrandom1> in any case, if BTC is to get to $1000 then the difficulty has to rise at least x100
597 2011-05-25 03:40:10 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, ps im just waiting for block download
598 2011-05-25 03:40:13 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: so they see a "huge" (1-2k usd worth) chunk at a price and underbid to beat it, after that sell the huge chunk moves down
599 2011-05-25 03:40:14 <phantomcircuit> which apparently i didnt have
600 2011-05-25 03:40:17 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: Ok
601 2011-05-25 03:40:45 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: try it yourself, it's very effective
602 2011-05-25 03:40:51 DontMindMe has joined
603 2011-05-25 03:41:00 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: isnt that normal market action?
604 2011-05-25 03:41:08 <davex__> jrmithdobbs, you're talking about the small-time day traders on #bitcoin-otc. they are not moving the market.
605 2011-05-25 03:41:31 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: not when a handful of people can push the price down by 20-30% in 3 hours with 1-2k usd worth of coins.
606 2011-05-25 03:41:52 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: that is an insane market.
607 2011-05-25 03:42:06 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, the entire market is only liek 100k usd/day
608 2011-05-25 03:42:11 <phantomcircuit> so that's actually not insane at all
609 2011-05-25 03:42:13 <BitterTea> I'm not convinced that's even what happening, but it's not insane, it's just *small*
610 2011-05-25 03:42:40 <BitterTea> You can do the same thing to any penny stock
611 2011-05-25 03:42:56 marlowe has joined
612 2011-05-25 03:43:38 <erbs> :-)D
613 2011-05-25 03:43:40 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: not without making an actual sell, that's the part you're missing
614 2011-05-25 03:43:41 marlowe has quit (Client Quit)
615 2011-05-25 03:43:51 <BitterTea> How is it different?
616 2011-05-25 03:44:18 <lfm> the only thing that would be insane would be if they were buying high and selling low
617 2011-05-25 03:44:36 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: or buying randomly with real world events playing no role
618 2011-05-25 03:45:01 marlowe has joined
619 2011-05-25 03:45:14 <BitterTea> That's just you projecting your personal opinions on to others
620 2011-05-25 03:45:21 <lfm> virtual worlds?
621 2011-05-25 03:45:25 <BitterTea> Maybe they have more information than you, or they are willing to take more risk
622 2011-05-25 03:45:32 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: what do you mean? throw 200btc up for 7.35 right now, wait for everyone to underbind you, drop it down to 7.25, rinse repeat
623 2011-05-25 03:45:40 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: you've lost nothing but dropped the market
624 2011-05-25 03:45:54 <jrmithdobbs> buy and wait for it to go back up
625 2011-05-25 03:45:56 <lfm> so?
626 2011-05-25 03:46:02 <BitterTea> You think they will underbit forever? lol
627 2011-05-25 03:46:06 <BitterTea> *underbid
628 2011-05-25 03:46:19 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: this is exactly what caused that drop to 5.5 the other day, yes
629 2011-05-25 03:46:26 <jrmithdobbs> watched it happen
630 2011-05-25 03:46:34 <jrmithdobbs> it was 2-3 people with ~200btc each
631 2011-05-25 03:46:38 <lfm> so whats wrong with it?
632 2011-05-25 03:46:47 <erbs> ;;bc,mtgox
633 2011-05-25 03:46:48 <BitterTea> How do you know it was 2-3 people!?
634 2011-05-25 03:46:48 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.51,"low":6.96,"vol":29243,"buy":7.3001,"sell":7.35,"last":7.3001}}
635 2011-05-25 03:46:51 <phantomcircuit> ZOMG BASIC MARKET MANIPULATION
636 2011-05-25 03:46:52 <erbs> shit be high bro
637 2011-05-25 03:46:54 <phantomcircuit> EVERYBODY RUN
638 2011-05-25 03:46:54 <gjs278> he was in on it
639 2011-05-25 03:47:26 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: ;P
640 2011-05-25 03:47:37 <gjs278> I just sold coins at 7.23, I dropped the market
641 2011-05-25 03:47:49 <okowl> According to http://newlibertystandard.wetpaint.com/page/Exchange+Rate the exchange rate is 221btc = 1usd? If not, what is it?
642 2011-05-25 03:47:49 <erbs> nothings stoppping mtgox from recording fake transactions to increase the spot price.. works well if there are buysers throughout the day who buy in or cash out at the spot price
643 2011-05-25 03:47:53 <gjs278> unless I wasnt supposed to sell
644 2011-05-25 03:47:54 <BitterTea> Wait, let me get this straight. I put up 200 BTC right now, undercutting the lowest bid?
645 2011-05-25 03:48:03 <BitterTea> Then, everyone else will undercut me
646 2011-05-25 03:48:06 <jrmithdobbs> yes.
647 2011-05-25 03:48:07 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, i have an open ask order for 10k usd, does that mean im raisinng the market?!
648 2011-05-25 03:48:10 <ar4s> How long does it take to receive bitcoins once the sender has issued them to a wallet?
649 2011-05-25 03:48:10 <jrmithdobbs> try it.
650 2011-05-25 03:48:11 <gjs278> yes
651 2011-05-25 03:48:12 <lfm> oh my oh my, transactions effect the market! time to panic
652 2011-05-25 03:48:13 <phantomcircuit> QUICK EVERYBODY SELL FOR INFINITY
653 2011-05-25 03:48:13 <BitterTea> Presumably, some buyers will snap up these "cheap" coins
654 2011-05-25 03:48:22 <BitterTea> Then... the price is back up
655 2011-05-25 03:49:01 <BitterTea> Your scenario seems to require buyers to continue to lower their bids and not buy
656 2011-05-25 03:49:08 <BitterTea> And if that is the case? So what?
657 2011-05-25 03:49:16 <jlewis> that's sort of what happens because the market is fairly illiquid
658 2011-05-25 03:49:21 <phantomcircuit> ar4s, 10 minutes on average, but the actual timing is random, and the longer you wait the more certain you can be that they're actually in your wallet
659 2011-05-25 03:49:42 <BitterTea> It's like quantum money :)
660 2011-05-25 03:49:49 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: point is you can do it at no loss because most people selling, at least right now, seem to be trying to liquidate asap
661 2011-05-25 03:50:14 <BitterTea> Well, that's your assumption, and you could be completely wrong and then you'd eat a loss
662 2011-05-25 03:50:19 <ar4s> phantomcircuit: thanks, does it help to restart bitcoin or is it better just to wait it out?
663 2011-05-25 03:50:26 <phantomcircuit> ar4s, just wait
664 2011-05-25 03:50:27 <BitterTea> Just wait it out
665 2011-05-25 03:50:43 <ar4s> alrighty
666 2011-05-25 03:51:03 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: slightly undercut with a huge chunk, you will get underbid, let it stabalize below you, which it will, repeat, good chance you will only sell off a very small portion before pushing it down far enough to make it profitable to buy and lift your asks
667 2011-05-25 03:51:07 <BitterTea> Question: if the sender does not include a tx fee, will it still show up unconfirmed immediately?
668 2011-05-25 03:51:21 <gjs278> I think so
669 2011-05-25 03:51:30 <gjs278> I thought the tx only matters forconfirms
670 2011-05-25 03:51:55 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, yes it will
671 2011-05-25 03:52:04 <gjs278> I know I've sent 0 transaction fees and they saw my send immediately
672 2011-05-25 03:52:07 <jrmithdobbs> assuming you have good connectivity, anyways
673 2011-05-25 03:52:16 <BitterTea> Hm, I guess I've just never seen an incoming tx sit around unconfirmed for a long time
674 2011-05-25 03:52:46 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: If you're so sure this works, why aren't you doing it?
675 2011-05-25 03:52:55 <lfm> BitterTea: ya some of the antispamming measures were causing some delays that way
676 2011-05-25 03:53:13 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: who says i'm not
677 2011-05-25 03:53:26 <lfm> so why complain then?
678 2011-05-25 03:53:35 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: Lol... Ok, then why are you telling us this? Do you propose some solution to this "problem"?
679 2011-05-25 03:53:38 <jrmithdobbs> because it shouldn't work and isn't healthy
680 2011-05-25 03:53:40 <jrmithdobbs> heh
681 2011-05-25 03:53:53 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: mtgox leaks too much data imho
682 2011-05-25 03:53:57 <jrmithdobbs> s/leaks/provides/
683 2011-05-25 03:54:02 <BitterTea> Again, you are assuming that others should share your subjective value judgements
684 2011-05-25 03:54:02 <gjs278> I'd rather they provded more
685 2011-05-25 03:54:03 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, just means that buyers aren't being to smart
686 2011-05-25 03:54:05 <gjs278> than they hid
687 2011-05-25 03:54:20 <davex__> jrmithdobbs, it won't necessarily always work. you might get left in the dust on the next big run up in bitcoin price.
688 2011-05-25 03:54:22 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, hint they provide the same info that the nyse does
689 2011-05-25 03:54:22 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: Leaks what information? I'm curious what you mean
690 2011-05-25 03:54:30 <gjs278> the price of coins for one!!!
691 2011-05-25 03:54:38 <BitterTea> lol
692 2011-05-25 03:54:45 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
693 2011-05-25 03:54:45 <gribble> 126502
694 2011-05-25 03:55:03 <erbs> ;;bc,pizza
695 2011-05-25 03:55:03 <gribble> Error: "bc,pizza" is not a valid command.
696 2011-05-25 03:55:11 <BitterTea> That will be the day
697 2011-05-25 03:55:45 <phantomcircuit> bah
698 2011-05-25 03:55:50 <BitterTea> <@gribble> Send 0.015 BTC to the following address and your pizza will be delivered within 30 minutes.
699 2011-05-25 03:55:50 <phantomcircuit> 109k blocks
700 2011-05-25 03:55:53 <phantomcircuit> GO FASTER
701 2011-05-25 03:56:07 <stuhood> lol
702 2011-05-25 03:56:31 blueadept has quit (Quit: Leaving)
703 2011-05-25 04:00:27 Slix` has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
704 2011-05-25 04:03:38 genjix has joined
705 2011-05-25 04:03:41 <genjix> ;;seen tcatm
706 2011-05-25 04:03:41 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 3 hours, 37 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <tcatm> listtransactions in recent versions
707 2011-05-25 04:03:45 genjix has left ()
708 2011-05-25 04:03:57 <GarrettB> phantomcircuit: why the rush?
709 2011-05-25 04:04:08 <BitterTea> Our bet :)
710 2011-05-25 04:04:14 <GarrettB> which is
711 2011-05-25 04:04:15 <GarrettB> ?
712 2011-05-25 04:04:31 <BitterTea> Oh, he's going to send me 20 BTC and as soon as I see it appear (without any confirmations) I'll send him 1
713 2011-05-25 04:04:46 <GarrettB> that doesn't sound like a bet
714 2011-05-25 04:05:16 <BitterTea> Well, I assume he's betting that some sneaky idea of his will work and the 20 BTC will never confirm
715 2011-05-25 04:05:28 <BitterTea> And I'm betting that it won't work
716 2011-05-25 04:05:35 <GarrettB> oh, well, I'd take your side bittertea
717 2011-05-25 04:05:37 <phantomcircuit> ps i already tested it
718 2011-05-25 04:05:58 <BitterTea> Will you share it with us after the bet is concluded?
719 2011-05-25 04:06:14 <phantomcircuit> you'll be able to figure out why after without help
720 2011-05-25 04:06:19 <BitterTea> ok
721 2011-05-25 04:06:21 <gjs278> if he does that then he won't be able to sucker anyone else
722 2011-05-25 04:06:49 <BitterTea> Hey, I'm not a sucker if I go into it knowing full well I may lose 1 BTC
723 2011-05-25 04:06:56 oneman_ has joined
724 2011-05-25 04:06:57 oneman has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
725 2011-05-25 04:07:10 ForceDestroyer has joined
726 2011-05-25 04:07:21 <mmoya> what hash function is used in merkle root ?
727 2011-05-25 04:07:49 <lfm> mmoya: it is the same sha256(sha256(txn)) hash
728 2011-05-25 04:09:13 Rudycoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
729 2011-05-25 04:09:29 <lfm> or sha256(sha256(hash | hash))
730 2011-05-25 04:09:42 <lfm> concat I think, not or
731 2011-05-25 04:09:51 <phantomcircuit> 111195
732 2011-05-25 04:09:52 <phantomcircuit> sigh
733 2011-05-25 04:09:55 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
734 2011-05-25 04:09:55 <gribble> 126505
735 2011-05-25 04:10:13 johndoe0711 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
736 2011-05-25 04:10:30 <mmoya> lfm: just playing with python and I'm not getting the correct hash
737 2011-05-25 04:10:45 <mmoya> for example, in http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/000000000000aba541225c5dae14735e36e5e3e607239778cf6c705c8ed16979
738 2011-05-25 04:10:55 Vandroiy has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
739 2011-05-25 04:10:58 <lfm> mmoya: try it with single txn block first
740 2011-05-25 04:11:13 <mmoya> should I do a sha256(sha256('648e15941706bb251608beb6ed7d273eb51c988f4a8a52f3acd4778c9266ee61' + 'e5c5fe0c589b6a002c559d68e04189c3749a6b9034b9ed4033e3b158dabb9a7b'))
741 2011-05-25 04:11:18 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * rb0bf52c8e58e supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/Market/ (plugin.py test.py): Market: add options to ticker command to retrieve individual numbers http://tinyurl.com/3wkq4r6
742 2011-05-25 04:11:40 <mmoya> those are the 2 hashes before the last one
743 2011-05-25 04:11:52 glassresistor has joined
744 2011-05-25 04:11:52 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
745 2011-05-25 04:11:52 glassresistor has joined
746 2011-05-25 04:12:20 <lfm> mmoya: not sure exactly the hash of hashes details
747 2011-05-25 04:12:34 brunner has joined
748 2011-05-25 04:12:39 <erbs> did anyone tell me if bitcoin should be capitalized or not
749 2011-05-25 04:12:46 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
750 2011-05-25 04:12:53 <phantomcircuit> mmoya, sha256 from hashlib?
751 2011-05-25 04:12:59 <lfm> erbs prolly should be as a proper name
752 2011-05-25 04:13:03 <erbs> i c
753 2011-05-25 04:13:29 <phantomcircuit> mmoya, hashlib.sha256(hashlib.sha256().digest()).digest()
754 2011-05-25 04:13:43 <lfm> mmoya: hash the binary of the hases, not the hex chars, right?
755 2011-05-25 04:13:59 <mmoya> lfm: mmm, I'm hashing the hexchars
756 2011-05-25 04:14:15 sethsethseth____ has joined
757 2011-05-25 04:14:26 sethsethseth___ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
758 2011-05-25 04:14:28 <lfm> mmoya: ok thats first mistake! grin
759 2011-05-25 04:14:55 <ar4s> phantomcircuit: I've been waiting almost an hour for a btc transaction. can I assume this is too long?
760 2011-05-25 04:15:00 fimp has joined
761 2011-05-25 04:15:25 <lfm> ar4s: maybe, maybe not, did you include a fee?
762 2011-05-25 04:15:35 <phantomcircuit> ar4s, that you sent?
763 2011-05-25 04:15:52 <ar4s> No, that I'm supposed to receive.
764 2011-05-25 04:15:57 sethsethseth_ has joined
765 2011-05-25 04:16:01 <jrmithdobbs> they didn't send it
766 2011-05-25 04:16:03 <erbs> ;;bc,mtgox
767 2011-05-25 04:16:03 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.51,"low":6.96,"vol":29638,"buy":7.3001,"sell":7.39,"last":7.3001}}
768 2011-05-25 04:16:03 <jrmithdobbs> simple
769 2011-05-25 04:16:12 <erbs> ;;bc,stats
770 2011-05-25 04:16:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126506 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 501 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 20 hours, 23 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 410806.35015810
771 2011-05-25 04:16:29 <ar4s> my Bitcoin app is set to a transaction of 0.01
772 2011-05-25 04:16:33 <phantomcircuit> ar4s, what jrmithdobbs said
773 2011-05-25 04:16:39 <ar4s> :|
774 2011-05-25 04:16:51 johndoe0711 has joined
775 2011-05-25 04:16:54 <ar4s> well fuck.
776 2011-05-25 04:17:05 <jrmithdobbs> ar4s: if it didn't show up on bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin within 5-10 minutes they didn't send it
777 2011-05-25 04:17:13 <jrmithdobbs> ar4s: get scammed?
778 2011-05-25 04:17:30 <ar4s> it would seem so.. I'll give the benefit of the doubt for now...
779 2011-05-25 04:17:46 <jrmithdobbs> if you already gave them whatever you were going to .... you got scammed
780 2011-05-25 04:18:00 <phantomcircuit> ar4s, it's entirely possible for them to see the transaction on their side without it actually being sent out
781 2011-05-25 04:18:09 <phantomcircuit> ar4s, the networking code is sufficiently screwed up
782 2011-05-25 04:18:15 <nanotube> ar4s: check on bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin
783 2011-05-25 04:18:21 <GarrettB> I waited for ~6 hours for a transaction from a guy in indonesia
784 2011-05-25 04:18:27 <ar4s> nanotube: what am I looking for there?
785 2011-05-25 04:18:28 <GarrettB> dunno what was up with that, but it came through
786 2011-05-25 04:18:34 <GarrettB> the network is all fucked right now, not sure why
787 2011-05-25 04:18:34 <nanotube> ar4s: and ask them if it shows up in their client as 0/unconfirmed, or 0/offline
788 2011-05-25 04:18:37 <phantomcircuit> 266M May 25 06:11 bitcoin.sqlite3
789 2011-05-25 04:18:37 <phantomcircuit> lol
790 2011-05-25 04:18:38 <nanotube> ar4s: look for your address
791 2011-05-25 04:18:49 <ar4s> nanotube: ok thanks, I'll check it out
792 2011-05-25 04:18:49 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
793 2011-05-25 04:19:03 <ar4s> hrmm, I work for their ISP, I just did a look up
794 2011-05-25 04:19:10 <ar4s> at least I can find out who they are... and where they live..
795 2011-05-25 04:19:10 <GarrettB> lol
796 2011-05-25 04:19:19 <GarrettB> that sounds illegal
797 2011-05-25 04:19:24 <ar4s> perhaps..
798 2011-05-25 04:19:25 <ar4s> ;)
799 2011-05-25 04:19:34 <phantomcircuit> GarrettB, actually it's not in a lot of places
800 2011-05-25 04:19:38 <phantomcircuit> it'll get you fired
801 2011-05-25 04:19:40 <phantomcircuit> but no jail
802 2011-05-25 04:19:41 <ar4s> I can use that as negotiation
803 2011-05-25 04:19:44 <ar4s> ahh
804 2011-05-25 04:20:19 <phantomcircuit> not to mention if he did get scammed he can get a court order anyways
805 2011-05-25 04:20:28 <lfm> unless you're a cop and you're spozed to get a warrent
806 2011-05-25 04:20:30 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: I gave you the wrong address earlier, please use this one instead 158bCbJzn5bisvmS75JyfsBngfpyxmmXFK
807 2011-05-25 04:20:33 ]AoA[darbsllim has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
808 2011-05-25 04:20:54 ]AoA[darbsllim has joined
809 2011-05-25 04:21:00 <lfm> BitterTea: lol
810 2011-05-25 04:21:36 <lfm> who did he send the first 20btc to?
811 2011-05-25 04:21:56 <phantomcircuit> haven't yet dont have the full block chain
812 2011-05-25 04:22:25 <BitterTea> what block are you on?
813 2011-05-25 04:22:34 <phantomcircuit> 118198
814 2011-05-25 04:22:38 <BitterTea> dang son
815 2011-05-25 04:22:46 <lfm> oh, I think I see what you're doing then phantomcircuit , doing a double spend on a partly downloaded block chain?
816 2011-05-25 04:22:48 <ar4s> nanotube: I don't see my wallet listed on bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin
817 2011-05-25 04:22:50 MemoryException has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
818 2011-05-25 04:22:51 <BitterTea> oh, nvm. for some reason I thought we were over 200k :)
819 2011-05-25 04:23:11 <phantomcircuit> lfm, nope
820 2011-05-25 04:23:22 <phantomcircuit> ill give a hint
821 2011-05-25 04:23:25 <BitterTea> I assumed he made multiple copies of a wallet and is running it in two instances of Bitcoin
822 2011-05-25 04:23:28 <phantomcircuit> my attack is against the btc ui
823 2011-05-25 04:23:38 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: don't think so
824 2011-05-25 04:23:38 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: think he's got something simpler than that up his sleeve
825 2011-05-25 04:23:45 <jrmithdobbs> thought so
826 2011-05-25 04:24:10 <phantomcircuit> critical info isn't displayed
827 2011-05-25 04:24:10 <BitterTea> I'll be afk for 10 mins or so
828 2011-05-25 04:24:11 <phantomcircuit> 119198
829 2011-05-25 04:24:16 <GarrettB> heh
830 2011-05-25 04:24:23 <GarrettB> he'll send 20 testnet coins?
831 2011-05-25 04:24:26 <BitterTea> msg me your address so I see it when I get back
832 2011-05-25 04:24:29 <GarrettB> no, that wouldn't work I don't think
833 2011-05-25 04:24:43 <BitterTea> testnet addresses start with M I thikn
834 2011-05-25 04:24:52 <lfm> small m
835 2011-05-25 04:25:30 <phantomcircuit> blah
836 2011-05-25 04:25:32 <phantomcircuit> so slow
837 2011-05-25 04:25:47 <GarrettB> send an invalid tx?
838 2011-05-25 04:25:55 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,block
839 2011-05-25 04:25:55 <gribble> Error: "bc,block" is not a valid command.
840 2011-05-25 04:25:58 <phantomcircuit> nope
841 2011-05-25 04:25:59 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
842 2011-05-25 04:26:00 <gribble> 126508
843 2011-05-25 04:26:03 <phantomcircuit> you wont guess it
844 2011-05-25 04:26:13 <phantomcircuit> attack is hilariously simple
845 2011-05-25 04:26:13 <lfm> BitterTea: good luck
846 2011-05-25 04:26:36 <phantomcircuit> ah hell i have to improve some code
847 2011-05-25 04:26:46 <phantomcircuit> nvm ill do it in like 2 days
848 2011-05-25 04:26:52 <phantomcircuit> definitely wont be fixed by then
849 2011-05-25 04:26:57 <doublec> someone a while back was accidentally mining on a fork of the chain. He only found out when he sent a few thousand for sale and they stayed at unconfirmed.
850 2011-05-25 04:27:01 <GarrettB> hmm, phantomcircuit do you have BitterTea's IP?
851 2011-05-25 04:27:05 <phantomcircuit> there's no way to do it from the mainline client
852 2011-05-25 04:27:09 <phantomcircuit> GarrettB, nope
853 2011-05-25 04:27:13 <BitterTea> aw, bummer
854 2011-05-25 04:27:13 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
855 2011-05-25 04:27:20 <BitterTea> I'm ready now too ;)
856 2011-05-25 04:27:20 <doublec> he sounded heartbroken that 3 months of mining effort were down the tubes
857 2011-05-25 04:27:34 <BitterTea> doublec: How can that happen?
858 2011-05-25 04:27:41 <doublec> I'll see if I can find the thread
859 2011-05-25 04:27:49 <phantomcircuit> if your network isn't connected
860 2011-05-25 04:27:52 <BitterTea> Was he on a smaller disconnected network?
861 2011-05-25 04:28:02 <GarrettB> lol did his miner disconnect from the internet?
862 2011-05-25 04:28:03 <BitterTea> Oh, yeah I guess that would suck
863 2011-05-25 04:28:06 <GarrettB> that would be hilarious
864 2011-05-25 04:28:14 <GarrettB> poor guy
865 2011-05-25 04:28:31 <lfm> doublec: huh? whats was he mining offline or something dumb?
866 2011-05-25 04:28:33 <doublec> BitterTea: yes I think so
867 2011-05-25 04:28:55 <stuhood> that should be nearly impossible at the current difficulty though, right?
868 2011-05-25 04:29:35 <stuhood> assuming you had ever been connected long enough to get the existing block chain and difficulty
869 2011-05-25 04:29:47 <phantomcircuit> yes
870 2011-05-25 04:29:51 <phantomcircuit> you'd notice pretty soon
871 2011-05-25 04:30:14 <Carandiru> failminer
872 2011-05-25 04:30:18 <lfm> stuhood: ya depends how much horsepower he had and how long ago it was
873 2011-05-25 04:30:29 <doublec> this was last year
874 2011-05-25 04:30:35 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: What would you notice?
875 2011-05-25 04:30:44 <BitterTea> What am I missing?
876 2011-05-25 04:30:49 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, block count wouldn't be increasing
877 2011-05-25 04:30:57 <BitterTea> Ah
878 2011-05-25 04:31:00 <stuhood> 2160 veeery slow blocks
879 2011-05-25 04:31:03 <stuhood> 2016*
880 2011-05-25 04:31:22 <BitterTea> Would be funny if it was right before a difficulty calculation
881 2011-05-25 04:31:30 <BitterTea> No, that wouldn't work, nevermind
882 2011-05-25 04:31:44 <lfm> ya if he had a couple gpu last fall and they were only talking to each other, nothing outside somehow maybe
883 2011-05-25 04:32:25 eternal1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
884 2011-05-25 04:33:27 * jgarzik continues to be surprised that theymos has not yet added ads to blockexplorer.com
885 2011-05-25 04:33:45 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, fuck nvm
886 2011-05-25 04:33:53 <phantomcircuit> attack doesn't work
887 2011-05-25 04:34:09 ]AoA[darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
888 2011-05-25 04:34:11 <phantomcircuit> lame
889 2011-05-25 04:34:22 <jrmithdobbs> what'd you think you'd found?
890 2011-05-25 04:34:28 <phantomcircuit> although the attack will at some random point in the future work
891 2011-05-25 04:34:32 <phantomcircuit> so id rather not say
892 2011-05-25 04:34:32 <phantomcircuit> lol
893 2011-05-25 04:34:56 ]AoA[darbsllim has joined
894 2011-05-25 04:35:59 <GarrettB> haha
895 2011-05-25 04:36:02 <GarrettB> so
896 2011-05-25 04:36:08 <GarrettB> what is the attack?
897 2011-05-25 04:36:28 _ape has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
898 2011-05-25 04:36:49 <GarrettB> also, didn't you say you had tested it ;)
899 2011-05-25 04:37:43 ]AoA[darbsllim has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
900 2011-05-25 04:37:46 <JFK911> phantomcircuit: we have the same idea i think
901 2011-05-25 04:38:41 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: That's too bad, I was going to use BitcoinJ to immediately forward the tx to my Bitcoin client
902 2011-05-25 04:38:55 <BitterTea> I'm not sure it would have affected the outcome or not
903 2011-05-25 04:38:57 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, maybe
904 2011-05-25 04:39:16 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, it might have if you were paying attention
905 2011-05-25 04:39:48 <BitterTea> You mean if I created a new transaction with yours as an input fast enough?
906 2011-05-25 04:39:51 <doublec> this is the thread http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1530.0
907 2011-05-25 04:39:59 <doublec> october last year
908 2011-05-25 04:40:28 <doublec> 13,000 bitcoins...ouch
909 2011-05-25 04:40:31 ]AoA[darbsllim has joined
910 2011-05-25 04:40:38 <phantomcircuit> lol i just realized the attack is possible
911 2011-05-25 04:40:44 <phantomcircuit> but is hilariously complicated
912 2011-05-25 04:40:52 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
913 2011-05-25 04:40:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126511 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 496 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 19 hours, 48 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 411055.61616385
914 2011-05-25 04:40:57 <gjs278> lol
915 2011-05-25 04:40:59 <gjs278> 411
916 2011-05-25 04:41:22 <BitterTea> doublec: Wow, back at block 1698?
917 2011-05-25 04:41:27 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
918 2011-05-25 04:41:29 <doublec> yeah
919 2011-05-25 04:41:35 <stuhood> haha
920 2011-05-25 04:41:41 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, the attack would work BETTER than i had previously thought but would require significant knowledge of the network topology
921 2011-05-25 04:42:00 <BitterTea> interesting
922 2011-05-25 04:42:22 <doublec> you would think he would have noticed generating blocks at difficulty 1
923 2011-05-25 04:43:32 <BitterTea> 13,000 BTC in 3 months at diff 1?
924 2011-05-25 04:44:22 <BitterTea> Probably just one CPU?
925 2011-05-25 04:44:31 <doublec> looks like it
926 2011-05-25 04:44:48 <doublec> this was mostly pre-gpu days
927 2011-05-25 04:44:57 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
928 2011-05-25 04:45:23 <BitterTea> Man, it's always really nostalgic feeling seeing satoshi's posts, even though he was gone by the time I found Bitcoin
929 2011-05-25 04:45:59 <phantomcircuit> SIGHASH_NONE
930 2011-05-25 04:46:00 <phantomcircuit> lol wtf
931 2011-05-25 04:46:05 <phantomcircuit> that's basically
932 2011-05-25 04:46:12 <phantomcircuit> "throw money into the crowd"
933 2011-05-25 04:46:22 <gmaxwell> heh? where?
934 2011-05-25 04:46:33 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, script.cpp
935 2011-05-25 04:46:52 <gmaxwell> oh, I thought you'd seen a TX with that in the wild.
936 2011-05-25 04:47:12 <phantomcircuit> no
937 2011-05-25 04:47:22 <phantomcircuit> i dont think you can even do that with the mainline client
938 2011-05-25 04:47:26 Carandiru has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
939 2011-05-25 04:47:46 <gmaxwell> You can't. but I was ready to hack something up to redeem it!
940 2011-05-25 04:49:16 <jrmithdobbs> haha right
941 2011-05-25 04:50:00 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
942 2011-05-25 04:50:22 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
943 2011-05-25 04:50:26 <phantomcircuit> god
944 2011-05-25 04:50:32 <phantomcircuit> why is that even included
945 2011-05-25 04:50:34 <phantomcircuit> insanity
946 2011-05-25 04:50:49 <jrmithdobbs> cyberpunk idealism
947 2011-05-25 04:50:53 <jrmithdobbs> you really have to ask?
948 2011-05-25 04:51:05 <BitterTea> I think I saw Mike or Gavin use it in an example of escrow or some other transaction
949 2011-05-25 04:51:06 <gmaxwell> eh, it could have some use.
950 2011-05-25 04:51:42 <gmaxwell> for example, I could give you a TX written like that via sneakernet and then you mine the block yourself to solve it.
951 2011-05-25 04:51:43 <BitterTea> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8821.0
952 2011-05-25 04:51:49 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: Boom, lawyered :)
953 2011-05-25 04:51:50 <devrandom> does anybody know if there are charts of $/BTC and diff on same graph?
954 2011-05-25 04:51:53 <gmaxwell> hm. why not just have zero output for that.. hmm.
955 2011-05-25 04:52:25 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, sure you could, but why?
956 2011-05-25 04:52:27 <lfm> gmaxwell: like a bearer bond eh?
957 2011-05-25 04:52:36 <BitterTea> gmaxwell: Look at the first post in the linked thread
958 2011-05-25 04:52:58 <lfm> gmaxwell: except photocopier vulnerable
959 2011-05-25 04:53:02 <BitterTea> Mike describes how to use a pair of transactions, one using SIGHASH_NONE, to do an escrow transaction
960 2011-05-25 04:53:15 <gmaxwell> ah... hah awesome.
961 2011-05-25 04:54:18 <BitterTea> If Bitcoin takes off, there are two things I see becoming big - custom scripting and custom hardware devices
962 2011-05-25 04:54:26 <gmaxwell> I couldn't figure out how to make time limited transactions with a script.
963 2011-05-25 04:54:34 <gmaxwell> e.g. TX that are only good before/after some blocknumber.
964 2011-05-25 04:55:12 <BitterTea> I've seen that discussed, but I don't remember if it was currently possible or not
965 2011-05-25 04:55:35 <gmaxwell> I've now forgotten why I want it. oh maybe it was to create self-releasing escrow.
966 2011-05-25 04:57:07 <jrmithdobbs> aren't like half the script commands disabled atm in the official client anyways?
967 2011-05-25 04:57:12 <BitterTea> yeah
968 2011-05-25 04:57:18 <jrmithdobbs> instead of fixing them
969 2011-05-25 04:57:25 <BitterTea> There's not much incentive to
970 2011-05-25 04:57:27 <BitterTea> *right now
971 2011-05-25 04:57:36 <BitterTea> Due to the possible security risks
972 2011-05-25 04:58:04 <jrmithdobbs> but that's where all the usefulness of bitcoin actually lies
973 2011-05-25 04:58:07 <BitterTea> However, in the future if there are large companies using bitcoin... many more resources could be devoted to security, which might allow all sorts of crazy scripting
974 2011-05-25 04:58:08 <jrmithdobbs> past speculation
975 2011-05-25 04:58:14 <BitterTea> Not all of it
976 2011-05-25 04:58:17 <gmaxwell> Someone needs to sit back and write a good hardened client, to help deal with that.
977 2011-05-25 04:58:20 <BitterTea> It works great to send payments now
978 2011-05-25 04:58:24 <BitterTea> And to store value
979 2011-05-25 04:58:46 <BitterTea> gmaxwell: I think the security will come with adoption
980 2011-05-25 04:59:04 <jrmithdobbs> that comment makes me want to punch you in the face
981 2011-05-25 04:59:07 <jrmithdobbs> jfyi
982 2011-05-25 04:59:27 <gmaxwell> doublec: need to talk you into writing one in ATS or some other validation facilitating language.
983 2011-05-25 04:59:35 <jrmithdobbs> it's been proven over and over again that the inverse is almost universally the case
984 2011-05-25 04:59:48 <doublec> gmaxwell: yeah I've been tempted
985 2011-05-25 05:00:01 <gmaxwell> unfortunately security is a lemon market.
986 2011-05-25 05:00:03 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: GFY. What's the incentive for someone to spend lots of time/money working on security right now?
987 2011-05-25 05:00:20 <BitterTea> not a lot compared to when the market size has increased by a factor of 10 or more
988 2011-05-25 05:00:37 theymos has joined
989 2011-05-25 05:00:43 <BitterTea> If you want to punch people in the face for stating an opinion you should reevaluate your life
990 2011-05-25 05:01:18 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: you take the internet very seriously.
991 2011-05-25 05:01:21 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, it's not possible currently
992 2011-05-25 05:01:24 <gmaxwell> BitterTea: some opinions are harmful and deserve face punching but I don't agree with jrmithdobbs here.
993 2011-05-25 05:01:27 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, like so many things it's disabled
994 2011-05-25 05:01:58 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: I'm not the one getting angry enough to want to punch people, I think you're projecting again
995 2011-05-25 05:02:12 <devrandom> phantomcircuit - what's disabled?
996 2011-05-25 05:02:13 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: there's no incentive for anyone outside of those with commit access to work on bitcoin proper period atm tbqh
997 2011-05-25 05:02:30 <BitterTea> You said someone should develop a "hardened bitcoin client"
998 2011-05-25 05:02:30 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: a) everyone filched on any open bounties
999 2011-05-25 05:02:43 <phantomcircuit> there's actually quite a few transactions with sequence=0
1000 2011-05-25 05:02:47 <gmaxwell> doublec: perhaps if you solicited around you could find someone to make it more attractive. A hardened daemon with good scale and all the scripting enabled might be pretty attractive to those few making 20k+ a month on bitcoin. :)
1001 2011-05-25 05:02:51 <phantomcircuit> i count 7 of them
1002 2011-05-25 05:03:03 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: b) they wont take anything outside of translation commits anyways
1003 2011-05-25 05:03:27 aps has joined
1004 2011-05-25 05:03:36 aps has left ()
1005 2011-05-25 05:03:38 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: I'm really confused, are you saying they won't allow additional developers?
1006 2011-05-25 05:04:02 <BitterTea> And that the current ones won't accept pull requests for bug fixes or security upgrades?
1007 2011-05-25 05:04:02 <doublec> gmaxwell: that's a good point. Pity mozilla doesn't do 20% time projects.
1008 2011-05-25 05:04:17 <jrmithdobbs> essentially, yes
1009 2011-05-25 05:04:21 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, yes that's what he is saying...
1010 2011-05-25 05:04:35 <BitterTea> I'm skeptical
1011 2011-05-25 05:04:43 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, he speaks truth
1012 2011-05-25 05:04:45 <jrmithdobbs> go look at the pull request list.
1013 2011-05-25 05:05:04 <jrmithdobbs> there's pulls in there that have been being forward ported for months
1014 2011-05-25 05:05:32 <stuhood> the historical approach for oss projects is to threaten-to-or-actually fork
1015 2011-05-25 05:05:49 <doublec> gmaxwell: it'd be a good test for ATS too. How well does it really fulfill its promise in a real world application.
1016 2011-05-25 05:05:51 <stuhood> has been to*
1017 2011-05-25 05:06:26 <BitterTea> I'm not familiar with open source development processes, but I'm not seeing the correlation between pull requests and lack of development initiative
1018 2011-05-25 05:06:33 <gmaxwell> doublec: it really would, and it's one where ATS's properties are important. It breaks into lots of little parts easily (well, a lot of software does, but not everything)
1019 2011-05-25 05:07:05 <phantomcircuit> stuhood, sure but you risk forking the block chain with every software fork
1020 2011-05-25 05:07:15 ]AoA[darbsllim has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1021 2011-05-25 05:07:24 AStove has joined
1022 2011-05-25 05:07:38 ]AoA[darbsllim has joined
1023 2011-05-25 05:07:43 <stuhood> phantomcircuit: as long as the protocol is really well documented, i'm not sure that it would be a bad thing to have some competing forks, in the same way that there are competing miners
1024 2011-05-25 05:07:59 <phantomcircuit> the protocol is trivial
1025 2011-05-25 05:08:09 <phantomcircuit> the rules to prevent spam and other random things though are not
1026 2011-05-25 05:08:13 <doublec> there are already forks. The big pools each probably have their own modified softwar.
1027 2011-05-25 05:08:13 <stuhood> would certainly help reinforce the core concept that other nodes can't be trusted
1028 2011-05-25 05:08:17 <theymos> Forks based on the same C++ code is pretty safe. What you want to avoid is reimplementing the core stuff.
1029 2011-05-25 05:08:22 <stuhood> doublec: right, that too
1030 2011-05-25 05:08:32 <gmaxwell> luke-jr is certantly running a modified bitcoind.
1031 2011-05-25 05:08:42 <doublec> yeah, to do the generated transactions
1032 2011-05-25 05:08:42 Kiba has joined
1033 2011-05-25 05:08:47 <jrmithdobbs> doublec: because they wont accept the patches that make bitcoind usable in the pool scenario
1034 2011-05-25 05:08:56 <gmaxwell> theymos: you want reimplementations of the whole thing so the whole network doesn't have the same bugs.
1035 2011-05-25 05:09:08 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
1036 2011-05-25 05:09:16 <doublec> right. you don't want one bug to bring down all clients.
1037 2011-05-25 05:09:16 <jrmithdobbs> doublec: the rpc netcode fucking dies if you throw more than ~12 miners at it that can actually exhaust their getwork requests
1038 2011-05-25 05:09:23 <jrmithdobbs> for instance
1039 2011-05-25 05:09:29 <luke-jr> more imporant than a well-documented core protocol, is a good regression test
1040 2011-05-25 05:09:31 <gmaxwell> theymos: imagine that there was a parsing bug that made it possible to create a generate TX that gives you 100000 BTC. You want there to be a lot of clients that reject that block.
1041 2011-05-25 05:09:52 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yes
1042 2011-05-25 05:10:03 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, there needs to be eh hem a SHITLOAD of tests
1043 2011-05-25 05:10:04 <stuhood> luke-jr: true.
1044 2011-05-25 05:10:09 <phantomcircuit> and afaict there are currently 0
1045 2011-05-25 05:10:33 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: How do you propose to fix that problem?
1046 2011-05-25 05:10:42 <theymos> gmaxwell: You'll end up on a separate chain unless you have >50% of the network. If you have 50% of the network, then *your* bugs will cause problems.
1047 2011-05-25 05:10:50 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: there's a pull request been sitting on github that "mostly" fixes it for quite a while
1048 2011-05-25 05:11:03 <gmaxwell> theymos: which is why we want no client to have but a fraction of the network.
1049 2011-05-25 05:11:39 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: Are you talking about monitortx or something?
1050 2011-05-25 05:11:49 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: no https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/214
1051 2011-05-25 05:12:06 <theymos> Probably you could do everything but Script if you were really careful. Reimplementing Script seems nearly impossible.
1052 2011-05-25 05:12:48 <gmaxwell> theymos: I don't see why you say that.
1053 2011-05-25 05:12:49 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: if they actually want bitcoin adopted by merchants and not just speculators that patch is a requirement as are the other enhancements he mentions
1054 2011-05-25 05:12:52 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: That's like two weeks old, and I haven't seen discussion about it on the forums
1055 2011-05-25 05:12:57 <gmaxwell> Script isn't especially hideous.
1056 2011-05-25 05:13:25 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: exactly. participation in an annoying community of 14yo libertarians is required to get a good piece of code accepted.
1057 2011-05-25 05:13:34 <stuhood> jrmithdobbs: if you care about that ticket, perhaps you should comment on it?
1058 2011-05-25 05:13:37 <gmaxwell> Especially since scripts are pure functions you could create a pretty good testshim to make sure you got the same behavior.
1059 2011-05-25 05:13:54 <gmaxwell> Not just pure functions but ones which always halt.
1060 2011-05-25 05:14:04 <BitterTea> Oh fucking please, a discussion on a patch isn't going to get mobbed with libertarians
1061 2011-05-25 05:14:19 <jrmithdobbs> that is not my patch fyi
1062 2011-05-25 05:14:28 <stuhood> so?
1063 2011-05-25 05:14:30 <theymos> gmaxwell: It's very dangerous, though. If your version of Script ever returns something even slightly different from Bitcoin's Script, you'll end up on a fork.
1064 2011-05-25 05:14:48 <gmaxwell> theymos: yes, reasons to test the everlasting @#$@ out of it.
1065 2011-05-25 05:15:00 <gmaxwell> And reasons to get an independant version _today_
1066 2011-05-25 05:15:00 <BitterTea> theymos: Couldn't you test your implementation on the existing block chain?
1067 2011-05-25 05:15:25 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: and compare it to what expect output?
1068 2011-05-25 05:15:38 <jrmithdobbs> s/expect/expected/
1069 2011-05-25 05:15:44 <doublec> that's all great reasons to implement a clean version of it, document it and have tests for it.
1070 2011-05-25 05:15:47 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: all the script stuff is currently disabled.
1071 2011-05-25 05:15:48 <theymos> BitterTea: There are only three strange transactions on the block chain. You need to worry about every possible transaction script. I wouldn't be confident that any testing would be complete.
1072 2011-05-25 05:15:53 <gmaxwell> theymos: coming from a background of writing multimedia codecs where every criticial bit must be handled exactly with algorithims far more complicated than script, I'm not too worried.
1073 2011-05-25 05:15:55 <jrmithdobbs> well, all the interesting script stuff
1074 2011-05-25 05:16:08 <gmaxwell> theymos: the worst is that there is hidden boundary behavior that you need to carefully identify and test.
1075 2011-05-25 05:16:32 FabianB has joined
1076 2011-05-25 05:16:56 <gmaxwell> theymos: a lot of the behavior with script you can even prove identical by testing all possible input states (with some simplifications of reducing things like matches to 1 bit states)
1077 2011-05-25 05:17:35 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1078 2011-05-25 05:17:45 <gmaxwell> theymos: there is fairly little entropy on most script inputs except signatures and hashes which are really binary inputs (they match or not).
1079 2011-05-25 05:17:46 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: I really don't see how those two pull requests of jordan's make or break Bitcoin for merchants
1080 2011-05-25 05:18:18 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: you don't see how being able to have more than 1-2 concurrent connections without choking the client is a necessity to anyone processing payments on any kind of scale?
1081 2011-05-25 05:18:57 <theymos> gmaxwell: You don't have to worry only about what most scripts will be. You have to worry about an attacker who will want to cause a fork. This is also a difference from codecs: no one's *trying* to create an incompatability in your software.
1082 2011-05-25 05:19:07 <gmaxwell> theymos: moreover, if you can prove that all script commands work the same then that proves all scripts work the same (so long as you also validate a couple extra boundary conditions)
1083 2011-05-25 05:19:16 <BitterTea> I'm not convinced that the problem is as bad as you say
1084 2011-05-25 05:19:44 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: so test it. throw 16 ~331mhash/s miners at bitcoind proper
1085 2011-05-25 05:19:48 okowl has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1086 2011-05-25 05:19:53 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: it fucking chokes.
1087 2011-05-25 05:19:59 <stuhood> jrmithdobbs: the burden of proof is on you
1088 2011-05-25 05:20:03 <gmaxwell> theymos: Yes, they do. And we've had to guard against that. (1) to drive implementations into undefined behavior where they can be exploited, and (2) to make subtile interop issues in order to screw with competition.
1089 2011-05-25 05:20:06 <jrmithdobbs> i have tested it
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1091 2011-05-25 05:20:11 <jrmithdobbs> it fucking chokes
1092 2011-05-25 05:20:13 <stuhood> so post your test to that ticket
1093 2011-05-25 05:20:21 <stuhood> rather than complaining about it
1094 2011-05-25 05:20:21 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: Is that essential to the functioning of the bitcoin economy?
1095 2011-05-25 05:20:43 <BitterTea> I just find it hard to believe that this is *such* a big problem yet is being ignored for whatever reason
1096 2011-05-25 05:20:49 <gmaxwell> theymos: and we have a lot more entropy on our inputs than scripts do. There is very little in a codec that I can exhaustively test.
1097 2011-05-25 05:21:07 <gmaxwell> theymos: most of the script commands can be exaustively tested. (maybe all? not quite sure about that)
1098 2011-05-25 05:21:51 <BitterTea> gmaxwell: I think he has a point that the failure scenarios for the projects are vastly different
1099 2011-05-25 05:21:52 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: um, obviously yes. it generates about 3-4 concurrent rpc connections ... runinng on a 3.2Ghzish 2-3 gen old xeon
1100 2011-05-25 05:22:04 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: which should easily be able to handle that load
1101 2011-05-25 05:22:18 <gmaxwell> BitterTea: yes, quite true. But some of the techniques are common.
1102 2011-05-25 05:22:27 <jrmithdobbs> if it wasn't stuck on blocked io calls instead of processing requests
1103 2011-05-25 05:22:43 <BitterTea> jrmithdobbs: So if it's that big of a deal, build jordan's version?
1104 2011-05-25 05:22:56 <BitterTea> Test it, submit it to the forum and show your results
1105 2011-05-25 05:22:57 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: i already integrate his patch in the builds i run
1106 2011-05-25 05:24:23 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: look i'm not just raging here, you asked for an example, i gave you one ... just looking at the patch it's obvious what it solves and mind boggling that it wasn't done this way in the first place
1107 2011-05-25 05:25:03 Ratt has joined
1108 2011-05-25 05:25:17 <Ratt> So, if I generated a block, listtransactions shows that it's immature and how many confirms it has... but how do I know what block number it was that was solved
1109 2011-05-25 05:25:30 <BitterTea> Yeah, 385 additions and 103 deletions, that should just be integrated right in to the main Bitcoin client without discussion or testing
1110 2011-05-25 05:25:37 <stuhood> jrmithdobbs: so you're saying you've tested that patch, proved that it solved the problem, and not indicated that in the comments?
1111 2011-05-25 05:26:14 <BitterTea> You're right, it probably should have been async in the first place
1112 2011-05-25 05:27:14 <doublec> Ratt: subtract the number of confirmations from the current block count
1113 2011-05-25 05:27:41 <Ratt> Heh... didn't think about that! I guess that makes perfect sense. :) Thanks!
1114 2011-05-25 05:27:48 <doublec> np
1115 2011-05-25 05:28:02 Nightwolf_ has joined
1116 2011-05-25 05:28:52 <jrmithdobbs> I gave up trying to convince them of anything after being told that implementing posix1.e capabilities was overengineering and that preforking/threaded request handlers don't mitigate dos situations
1117 2011-05-25 05:28:53 <Nightwolf_> Helo good morning
1118 2011-05-25 05:29:15 <Nightwolf_> i am new a bitcoin
1119 2011-05-25 05:29:55 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: how's that for honesty?
1120 2011-05-25 05:29:57 num1-mac has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
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1122 2011-05-25 05:31:37 <BitterTea> To be honest, it sounds like me that you're bitter that your request was not accepted, but that's just my opinion
1123 2011-05-25 05:31:48 <BitterTea> *sounds to me like
1124 2011-05-25 05:32:11 <gmaxwell> It's not his request.
1125 2011-05-25 05:32:17 _ape has joined
1126 2011-05-25 05:32:20 <gmaxwell> It's a patch both he and luke-jr are using, though.
1127 2011-05-25 05:32:38 <BitterTea> He has two pull requests on github
1128 2011-05-25 05:32:45 <BitterTea> both from two weeks ago
1129 2011-05-25 05:33:09 Aexoden has joined
1130 2011-05-25 05:33:16 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: ?
1131 2011-05-25 05:33:20 Nightwolf_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1132 2011-05-25 05:33:23 <theymos> What does the patch do?
1133 2011-05-25 05:33:36 <BitterTea> The async bitcoind IO patch?
1134 2011-05-25 05:33:40 <luke-jr> I don't use that.
1135 2011-05-25 05:33:48 <luke-jr> fwiw
1136 2011-05-25 05:33:52 <gmaxwell> oh, I thought you did.
1137 2011-05-25 05:34:03 <luke-jr> no, I use my own multi-threaded JSON-RPC patch
1138 2011-05-25 05:34:09 <luke-jr> which I wrote before his
1139 2011-05-25 05:34:17 <gmaxwell> ah.
1140 2011-05-25 05:34:37 <luke-jr> mine is a hack tho
1141 2011-05-25 05:34:38 <luke-jr> ;)
1142 2011-05-25 05:34:56 <phantomcircuit> lol
1143 2011-05-25 05:35:13 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, there's a guy in ##crypto who claims he can break bitcoin with a rack of servers
1144 2011-05-25 05:35:15 <phantomcircuit> im lolin
1145 2011-05-25 05:35:47 <BitterTea> I love when people say "it's so easy to perform $profitable_attack" but don't
1146 2011-05-25 05:36:00 <phantomcircuit> yeah that's what i told him
1147 2011-05-25 05:36:01 <phantomcircuit> "then do it"
1148 2011-05-25 05:36:24 <gmaxwell> "but it would be evil" "Then do it to the testnet"
1149 2011-05-25 05:36:33 <theymos> (Googled it.) Bitcoin Block Explorer's RPC has been doing well with whatever 0.3.19 does. At what point does load cause problems?
1150 2011-05-25 05:36:43 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: don't really care if they accept my patch but the basic concepts of least privelege and common network code design patterns in the maintainers of software such as this irks me greatly
1151 2011-05-25 05:37:11 <jrmithdobbs> BitterTea: err s/patterns/patterns not being understood by/
1152 2011-05-25 05:37:44 <stuhood> agreed
1153 2011-05-25 05:38:08 <BitterTea> Ok, you think it's a high priority
1154 2011-05-25 05:38:36 <BitterTea> Others seem to think it's not, I don't know how to resolve that
1155 2011-05-25 05:38:54 <stuhood> (testcases help)
1156 2011-05-25 05:39:00 <BitterTea> Why not fork the client, make a more secure one?
1157 2011-05-25 05:39:40 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, again you need to be 100% sure you have all the spam prevention rules and other assorted stuff right
1158 2011-05-25 05:39:46 <phantomcircuit> otherwise you're screwed
1159 2011-05-25 05:40:21 <BitterTea> Is that a problem if you start from the current code?
1160 2011-05-25 05:40:38 <gmaxwell> There is also room for special purpose daemons.
1161 2011-05-25 05:40:59 <jrmithdobbs> the current code, from a non-ui perspective is archictected backwards
1162 2011-05-25 05:41:11 <gmaxwell> spam prevention is less important in a pool daemon or an exchange daemon.
1163 2011-05-25 05:41:27 <gmaxwell> someone could make a daemon which only ever listens to the longest chain and ignores TX not in it.
1164 2011-05-25 05:41:47 <gmaxwell> (if you're never going to take a non-confirmed TX, why bother listening to anything else)
1165 2011-05-25 05:41:59 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, the current code is so bad that refactoring it would be basically a waste of time
1166 2011-05-25 05:42:08 <theymos> Bitcoin originally was only a GUI, so it's no surprise that it's not that great with RPC.
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1168 2011-05-25 05:42:57 <stuhood> phantomcircuit: that ticket dealing with improvements to RPC seem to take some good incremental steps though
1169 2011-05-25 05:43:14 <stuhood> phantomcircuit: make rpc async, then internode communication
1170 2011-05-25 05:43:31 <phantomcircuit> stuhood, improving rpc could be done incrementally
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1180 2011-05-25 06:00:09 <gmaxwell> weee.. I'm running bitcoin inside valgrind while fuxxing its network connectivity.
1181 2011-05-25 06:00:42 <gmaxwell> managed to trigger a overlapping memcpy.
1182 2011-05-25 06:01:05 <gmaxwell> Though unfortunately I was testing it on a system without the debugging symbols, so I dunno where it happened.
1183 2011-05-25 06:01:11 <gmaxwell> (doh!)
1184 2011-05-25 06:02:10 kika_ has joined
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1186 2011-05-25 06:02:20 kika_ has joined
1187 2011-05-25 06:02:31 <kika_> [02:54] <kika_> i connected two 6990 card to the motherboard [02:54] <kika_> and setup the crossfire cable [02:54] <kika_> between the two cards [02:54] <kika_> however when i power on the pc, i dont get signal on the monitor [02:54] <kika_> im using the dvi output [02:55] <kika_> does anyone have idea whats going on ?
1188 2011-05-25 06:03:22 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, dear god that much be slow
1189 2011-05-25 06:03:38 BitterTea has quit (Quit: leaving)
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1192 2011-05-25 06:04:29 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: it's only a 10x slowdown.
1193 2011-05-25 06:04:38 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: and I have lots and lots of cores.
1194 2011-05-25 06:04:38 <phantomcircuit> lol only
1195 2011-05-25 06:05:11 <phantomcircuit> the ui is what gets slow
1196 2011-05-25 06:05:15 <gmaxwell> I figure I'll startup a few hundred lossy-bitcoins in valgrind and see if anything fun goes kabloooi.
1197 2011-05-25 06:05:26 <gmaxwell> oh yea, well, I mostly don't get a @#$ about the ui.
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1199 2011-05-25 06:08:07 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: pretty sure we're the only two in this channel that's the case for ;P
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1206 2011-05-25 06:13:25 <gmaxwell> I've actually never seen the bitcoin UI except in screenshots.
1207 2011-05-25 06:13:51 <nathan7> Good morning, world
1208 2011-05-25 06:14:51 <gmaxwell> The CLI works pretty well in my expirence. It would be neat to see a gui-stripped hardened bitcoind and the gui just be a rpc client for it. ::shrugs::
1209 2011-05-25 06:15:25 gsathya has joined
1210 2011-05-25 06:16:18 <jrmithdobbs> i think long term that's exactly what needs to happen
1211 2011-05-25 06:16:38 <jrmithdobbs> or at the least split out all the actual functionality into a library that they both use
1212 2011-05-25 06:16:53 <jrmithdobbs> (or a combination of both)
1213 2011-05-25 06:17:32 <stuhood> agreed
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1216 2011-05-25 06:19:10 <jrmithdobbs> just make it work like adb where launching the cli (or gui in this case) launches the 'real' background daemon if not running
1217 2011-05-25 06:20:43 <jrmithdobbs> the thought of actually trying to split the functionality in the code base makes my head hurt though :(
1218 2011-05-25 06:21:49 <alystair> ;;bc,stats
1219 2011-05-25 06:21:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126535 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 472 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 17 hours, 2 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 412832.38909982
1220 2011-05-25 06:22:23 AStove has quit ()
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1222 2011-05-25 06:27:39 aschmitz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1223 2011-05-25 06:28:43 Guest10142 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1224 2011-05-25 06:28:52 <da2ce7> I'm wanting something quite cool... an openCL video filter system... we have lots of people with openCL experence here anyway...
1225 2011-05-25 06:29:57 <da2ce7> so say, if you had a video that is 24FPS the openCL video system could detect inter-fram movement an create frames that move half the distance, so the video could be 48pfs.
1226 2011-05-25 06:30:16 <da2ce7> or more advance... create frames so that it is completly smooth at 60 fps.
1227 2011-05-25 06:30:36 <da2ce7> :) good use of our gpu's once mining has become not-proffitable.
1228 2011-05-25 06:32:47 glitch-mod has joined
1229 2011-05-25 06:33:52 james has joined
1230 2011-05-25 06:34:04 larsivi has joined
1231 2011-05-25 06:34:14 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
1232 2011-05-25 06:34:14 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.51,"low":6.96,"vol":28819,"buy":7.2121,"sell":7.265,"last":7.2161}}
1233 2011-05-25 06:34:18 james is now known as Guest82225
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1240 2011-05-25 06:38:53 <_ape> anyone know if mac pro radeon 5870s are supported on pc/linux?
1241 2011-05-25 06:39:10 <erbs> once you have all these miners with tons of equipment, they will just start bitcoin II (and allow the first 100K blocks to be created nearly instantaneously, at which point it reverts to the stadnard 10 minutes interval)
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1243 2011-05-25 06:39:40 <erbs> the miners can defect at any time
1244 2011-05-25 06:39:52 Astriks has joined
1245 2011-05-25 06:40:10 <stuhood> erbs: it's a symbiotic relationship
1246 2011-05-25 06:40:35 <jgarzik> miners without users create valueless coins
1247 2011-05-25 06:41:06 <erbs> users will migrate almost transparently
1248 2011-05-25 06:41:21 <erbs> future clients will be able to maintain multiple chains (testnet,satoshi genesis block, bitcoin II) etc
1249 2011-05-25 06:41:21 <alystair> anyone here?
1250 2011-05-25 06:41:33 <alystair> I'm looking at the 5870x2 on the wiki, am I to believe it takes 1500 watts? @_@
1251 2011-05-25 06:41:42 <jgarzik> existing coins and existing clients are stuck in the existing system
1252 2011-05-25 06:41:44 <erbs> bitcoin I will cease processing tx and users will quickly exchange their coins in for bitcoin II
1253 2011-05-25 06:41:57 <jgarzik> not really
1254 2011-05-25 06:42:00 Astriks_ has joined
1255 2011-05-25 06:42:08 <erbs> they would be forced to
1256 2011-05-25 06:42:32 <erbs> bitcoin I wouldnt have enough compute power after the miners defect. the existing users would have to accept any deal offered to them
1257 2011-05-25 06:42:49 <stuhood> miners leaving the bitcoin 1 chain would create a vacuum⦠it would become hugely profitable to be mining there
1258 2011-05-25 06:42:52 <ArtForz> err... no.
1259 2011-05-25 06:43:05 <alystair> hello?
1260 2011-05-25 06:43:11 <ArtForz> yep, exactly that
1261 2011-05-25 06:43:29 <erbs> stuhood, it would take weeks for non-defecting miners to build enough rigs and systems to match the power of the miners who defected
1262 2011-05-25 06:43:30 RenaKunisaki has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1263 2011-05-25 06:43:39 <erbs> that would bring the economy to a standstill
1264 2011-05-25 06:43:44 <ArtForz> err... no.
1265 2011-05-25 06:43:55 <alystair> W column in mining hardware comparison
1266 2011-05-25 06:43:57 <erbs> you already need 2 weeks to adjust the difficulty
1267 2011-05-25 06:43:59 <alystair> is for wattage right?
1268 2011-05-25 06:44:21 <wumpus> so that relies on *all* miners organizing against bitcoin? fat chance...
1269 2011-05-25 06:44:25 <ArtForz> yeah
1270 2011-05-25 06:44:31 chmod755 has joined
1271 2011-05-25 06:44:31 <ArtForz> even if you magically get 90% to defect, thats still enough for tx to go through in a few hours
1272 2011-05-25 06:45:07 <erbs> except you still need confirms.. so 1 hour to approve a tx becomes an entire day
1273 2011-05-25 06:45:20 <wumpus> and the miners would be voluntuarily giving up their share
1274 2011-05-25 06:45:21 <ArtForz> so.. why isn't everyone mining on testnet yet?
1275 2011-05-25 06:45:30 <wumpus> I am
1276 2011-05-25 06:45:40 <wumpus> I think I'm the only one though :p
1277 2011-05-25 06:45:55 <wumpus> as I get about every block
1278 2011-05-25 06:45:58 <alystair> can someone here tell me what the W column is on this page is: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison#AMD
1279 2011-05-25 06:46:12 justmoon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1280 2011-05-25 06:46:47 twobitcoins_ has joined
1281 2011-05-25 06:47:19 <erbs> usually oligarchs collude to divide up the market.. so you'd end up with 2 new chains, each offering every odd/even bitcoin account a chance to trade in onto the new chain
1282 2011-05-25 06:47:20 <stuhood> alystair: probably? the tables lower in the page use W for wattage
1283 2011-05-25 06:47:28 <wumpus> it's the number of kittens sacrificed for each mhash
1284 2011-05-25 06:47:36 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1285 2011-05-25 06:47:42 <ArtForz> erbs: that makes no sense at all.
1286 2011-05-25 06:47:45 <alystair> stuhood: 5870x2 having 1500 watt requirement seems absurd then?
1287 2011-05-25 06:47:50 <alystair> :|
1288 2011-05-25 06:48:00 <stuhood> *shrug
1289 2011-05-25 06:49:09 dissipate has joined
1290 2011-05-25 06:49:29 <erbs> ArtForz: perhaps
1291 2011-05-25 06:49:45 <erbs> anything could happen.. projects fork all the time.. and with a huge financial incentive to do so
1292 2011-05-25 06:50:15 twobitcoins has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1293 2011-05-25 06:50:34 <alystair> where the hell can you even find a 5870x2 anyway :S
1294 2011-05-25 06:52:24 <erbs> i dont think it will happen ArtForz
1295 2011-05-25 06:52:37 <erbs> but i expect chicanery once the market is much bigger
1296 2011-05-25 06:55:02 <ersi> ;;bc,stats
1297 2011-05-25 06:55:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126539 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 468 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 16 hours, 41 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 412405.16439458
1298 2011-05-25 06:55:51 DD- has joined
1299 2011-05-25 06:58:00 <alystair> wow difficulty is doubling :O
1300 2011-05-25 06:58:27 Guest82225 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1301 2011-05-25 06:58:50 <retinal> ;;calc [bc,estimate]/[bc,diff]
1302 2011-05-25 06:58:51 <gribble> 412,755.51940992 / 244,139.48158254 = 1.69065453
1303 2011-05-25 06:59:26 <alystair> :p
1304 2011-05-25 06:59:37 <alystair> ;;calc 5mbps*2
1305 2011-05-25 06:59:37 <gribble> ...
1306 2011-05-25 06:59:49 <alystair> ;;help
1307 2011-05-25 06:59:49 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
1308 2011-05-25 07:00:50 <erbs> difficultie
1309 2011-05-25 07:01:11 toffoo has quit ()
1310 2011-05-25 07:01:21 <erbs> if AMD/ATI wanted to.. could they generate the whole chain in a day
1311 2011-05-25 07:01:29 james_ has joined
1312 2011-05-25 07:01:32 <erbs> or 126K blocks
1313 2011-05-25 07:01:38 gjs278 has joined
1314 2011-05-25 07:01:38 twobitcoins_ is now known as twobitcoins
1315 2011-05-25 07:02:10 <alystair> don't tempt us
1316 2011-05-25 07:02:13 <alystair> er I mean
1317 2011-05-25 07:02:14 <alystair> them
1318 2011-05-25 07:03:24 xino has joined
1319 2011-05-25 07:03:51 <erbs> in soviet union, bitkoin mines you
1320 2011-05-25 07:04:00 toffoo has joined
1321 2011-05-25 07:04:28 <alystair> bitkoin :D
1322 2011-05-25 07:09:02 <xino> being mined by a bitkoin would be an interesting experience
1323 2011-05-25 07:09:39 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1324 2011-05-25 07:10:28 krekbwoy has joined
1325 2011-05-25 07:11:15 <xino> how long have you all known about bitcoin and where did you first hear about it?
1326 2011-05-25 07:12:06 devrandom1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1327 2011-05-25 07:12:29 <stuhood> 2 weeks, news.ycombinator.com
1328 2011-05-25 07:12:55 <stuhood> you?
1329 2011-05-25 07:13:02 ]AoA[darbsllim has quit ()
1330 2011-05-25 07:13:14 <xino> Since February, I first heard about it on a podcast called Security Now
1331 2011-05-25 07:13:36 bluejay3 has joined
1332 2011-05-25 07:14:16 <stuhood> was it a good discussion?
1333 2011-05-25 07:14:26 <stuhood> ooh, transcript.
1334 2011-05-25 07:14:37 <stuhood> http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-287.pdf
1335 2011-05-25 07:15:08 <xino> it was a great discussion
1336 2011-05-25 07:15:27 <xino> there's also an mp3 of it
1337 2011-05-25 07:15:35 _W_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1338 2011-05-25 07:15:35 <xino> as well as video. You can watch it on youtube
1339 2011-05-25 07:17:00 <xino> they start talking about it at I think the 42 minute mark
1340 2011-05-25 07:17:59 bluejay3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1341 2011-05-25 07:18:31 wood_ has joined
1342 2011-05-25 07:19:07 <jargon> http://www.grc.com/sn/sn-287.pdf <- retards that don't realize bitcoin is a cycle sharing network, not a currency network.
1343 2011-05-25 07:20:23 <jargon> Obviously they looked at every damn file but the certain .h that turns any machine into Fawkes@Home.
1344 2011-05-25 07:21:15 <jargon> Blame Janus aka Seether of Gaming Universe for porting my Vapor project to ballistic levels.
1345 2011-05-25 07:21:16 <xino> I'm confused about the retard comment
1346 2011-05-25 07:21:52 <ArtForz> oh, the aspie troll is back
1347 2011-05-25 07:21:57 <OneFixt> -^
1348 2011-05-25 07:22:19 <jargon> he's an Anon ringleader potentially, and you should know of him considering he hijacked all your mining equipment via porting my Vapor project from my total rewrite of FBEpyon's Scroll of Ages
1349 2011-05-25 07:22:44 <gjs278> uh huh
1350 2011-05-25 07:22:49 <jargon> I wrote an additional 10,000 or so lines of code and rewrote the original lines in just 2 weeks time.
1351 2011-05-25 07:22:52 <ArtForz> he's also chuck norris in disguise. and killed the dead sea. with a single roundhouse kick.
1352 2011-05-25 07:23:08 <gjs278> jargon did you hack sony
1353 2011-05-25 07:23:21 <jargon> No, Chuck Norris is a wussy piece of shit that got killed by Bruce Lee.
1354 2011-05-25 07:23:44 <ArtForz> err, no, that was mr rogers.
1355 2011-05-25 07:23:55 _W_ has joined
1356 2011-05-25 07:24:02 <xino> and did Bruce Lee get paid in bitcoins for this?
1357 2011-05-25 07:24:14 <xino> lol
1358 2011-05-25 07:24:17 <jargon> If you are going to be retarded, do it on your own time, like make your mom proud and make some Goddamn youtube show.
1359 2011-05-25 07:24:25 <gjs278> what's youtube
1360 2011-05-25 07:24:32 <ArtForz> youtube?
1361 2011-05-25 07:24:33 <jargon> Its the crust in your butthole.
1362 2011-05-25 07:24:47 <jargon> It's jinx
1363 2011-05-25 07:24:53 <ArtForz> I prefer to write some retarded php and spout cool-sounding technobabble.
1364 2011-05-25 07:25:02 <gjs278> I don't go to youtube
1365 2011-05-25 07:25:05 <gjs278> it is owned by jews
1366 2011-05-25 07:25:10 <gjs278> secret anon jews
1367 2011-05-25 07:25:13 <gjs278> but jews nonetheless
1368 2011-05-25 07:25:16 <ArtForz> no, illuminati
1369 2011-05-25 07:25:35 <jargon> AKkademii > Illuminati.
1370 2011-05-25 07:25:48 MemoryException has joined
1371 2011-05-25 07:25:56 <ArtForz> lol, keep believing that.
1372 2011-05-25 07:26:00 devrandom1 has joined
1373 2011-05-25 07:26:15 <jargon> I am Sentesii, I don't give a shit about either.
1374 2011-05-25 07:27:00 <stuhood> xino: agreed⦠it's a great discussion
1375 2011-05-25 07:27:59 <ArtForz> meh, aspie troll is getting boring. why can't we ever get decently entertaining trolls in here :/
1376 2011-05-25 07:28:18 Incitatus has joined
1377 2011-05-25 07:28:22 <_ape> lol
1378 2011-05-25 07:28:26 <jargon> bitcoin is an un-sandboxed virtual machine.
1379 2011-05-25 07:28:32 <_ape> ArtForz: one of my 5870 fans died this morning :(
1380 2011-05-25 07:28:35 <_ape> an asus reference model
1381 2011-05-25 07:28:41 <ArtForz> shit
1382 2011-05-25 07:28:50 <thermal> why so much spaz
1383 2011-05-25 07:28:51 <ArtForz> what % did you run it at? and... how long?
1384 2011-05-25 07:28:57 <_ape> 100, had it since may 7th
1385 2011-05-25 07:29:02 Ratt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1386 2011-05-25 07:29:03 <_ape> ive got the others lowered to 80 now
1387 2011-05-25 07:29:08 <_ape> but i doubt it would have made a diff
1388 2011-05-25 07:29:10 <_ape> it was a used card
1389 2011-05-25 07:29:23 <ArtForz> _ape: sounds like you got shafted
1390 2011-05-25 07:29:25 <_ape> yeah
1391 2011-05-25 07:29:30 <_ape> waiting for asus rma response
1392 2011-05-25 07:29:34 <xino> @stuhood I'm not sure how much of it you understand, but if you want an even more in depth understanding of what he's saying, go back to Security Now episode 31 where he starts explaining crypto from the beginning and then u can understand the bitcoin episode much more
1393 2011-05-25 07:29:44 <_ape> apparently i filled out the wrong form this morning so now i have to wait for them to process it again
1394 2011-05-25 07:29:44 <ArtForz> wanna bet that fan was already acting up before you got it?
1395 2011-05-25 07:29:49 <_ape> yeah it probably was
1396 2011-05-25 07:30:04 <_ape> i tried pushing the fan down hard (forum suggestion for similar issue), no change
1397 2011-05-25 07:30:15 <_ape> when i shake the card it rattles a little
1398 2011-05-25 07:30:21 <_ape> so i think it just came loose or the bearings wore out
1399 2011-05-25 07:30:25 <_ape> probably another miner dumping it
1400 2011-05-25 07:30:27 <_ape> got it off ebay
1401 2011-05-25 07:30:46 <thermal> jargon: what do you mean by "cycle sharing network, not a currency network"?
1402 2011-05-25 07:30:59 <OneFixt> thermal: don't feed the troll
1403 2011-05-25 07:30:59 <gjs278> buy an accelero _ape
1404 2011-05-25 07:31:01 <_ape> anyway now i'm out money and 415 mhash/s :(
1405 2011-05-25 07:31:05 <thermal> lol ok
1406 2011-05-25 07:31:10 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
1407 2011-05-25 07:31:14 <_ape> im not putting more money into a failing card, who knows what will go wrong on it next
1408 2011-05-25 07:31:18 <_ape> just going to wait for rma
1409 2011-05-25 07:31:22 <gjs278> alright
1410 2011-05-25 07:31:33 redengin has joined
1411 2011-05-25 07:31:38 <_ape> i already tried that once when my x1900 started overheating, only made it worse
1412 2011-05-25 07:31:45 <ArtForz> _ape: that sounds like the usual ati fan problem
1413 2011-05-25 07:31:47 <_ape> yeah
1414 2011-05-25 07:31:50 <_ape> apparently its common
1415 2011-05-25 07:31:54 <_ape> i saw like 15 videos of the same noise
1416 2011-05-25 07:31:56 <_ape> on youtube
1417 2011-05-25 07:31:57 <ArtForz> yep
1418 2011-05-25 07:32:01 <ArtForz> like 5% of fans have a loose bearing from the factory
1419 2011-05-25 07:32:11 <_ape> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12A11XTVXFM
1420 2011-05-25 07:32:12 <_ape> that noise exactly
1421 2011-05-25 07:32:14 <ArtForz> on the first batch of 5970s is was more like 100%
1422 2011-05-25 07:32:15 <_ape> sounds like a spitfire
1423 2011-05-25 07:32:15 Astriks has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1424 2011-05-25 07:32:15 <_ape> lol
1425 2011-05-25 07:32:25 <_ape> at 50% fan speed
1426 2011-05-25 07:32:27 <thermal> ah the joys of mass manufacturing eh?
1427 2011-05-25 07:32:29 <stuhood> xino: thanks⦠i've explained it to a few folks: i'm most just appreciating his explanation
1428 2011-05-25 07:32:29 <_ape> yah
1429 2011-05-25 07:32:45 <ArtForz> yup
1430 2011-05-25 07:33:05 <hybriz_> # lspci | grep -i nvidia
1431 2011-05-25 07:33:05 <hybriz_> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GT200 [GeForce GTX 280] (rev a1)
1432 2011-05-25 07:33:06 <ArtForz> seems making a good-fitting seat for a steel ball bearing in a plastic fan hub is black magic
1433 2011-05-25 07:33:12 <_ape> heh
1434 2011-05-25 07:33:13 <hybriz_> so what linux gpu miner is better for nvidia ? :D
1435 2011-05-25 07:33:24 <_ape> hopefully asus rma isnt as bad as sapphire
1436 2011-05-25 07:33:28 <_ape> any experience with them?
1437 2011-05-25 07:33:43 <kika_> weird, i still cant get my two 6990 ati cards to work on my m4a89gtd mobo, for some reason when i connect them, i get no video on the monitor
1438 2011-05-25 07:33:44 <jargon> ArtForz, all I do is Dark Arts.
1439 2011-05-25 07:33:45 <gjs278> I've never had a "bad" rma
1440 2011-05-25 07:33:47 <_ape> i bet by the time i get the replacement card mining wont even be worthwhile anymore
1441 2011-05-25 07:33:49 <thermal> they should keep the mass manufacturing method as it is, so that it remains very cheap, but improve quality assurance
1442 2011-05-25 07:34:08 <ArtForz> thermal: how does QA help in this case?
1443 2011-05-25 07:34:19 <ArtForz> this isn't a DOA problem
1444 2011-05-25 07:34:32 <jargon> That is why I was hired under the table for DARPA TTO, my Dark Arts and Black Magic was Nostrodamus and Rasputin level.
1445 2011-05-25 07:34:32 <_ape> yeah its not like they can really predict it
1446 2011-05-25 07:34:35 <_ape> since it only happens over time
1447 2011-05-25 07:34:40 <ArtForz> the problem is, the bearing sits in a bunch of ridges in the plastic hub
1448 2011-05-25 07:34:42 <thermal> check for loose bearings?
1449 2011-05-25 07:34:43 <ArtForz> press-fit
1450 2011-05-25 07:34:43 <_ape> the most they can do is run it at 100% for a month or w/e while they manufacture the rest
1451 2011-05-25 07:34:50 <jargon> I meddle like a mad-fuck.
1452 2011-05-25 07:34:54 <ArtForz> yep
1453 2011-05-25 07:34:56 <xino> @stuhood I love all the episodes of Security Now. Great show in general.
1454 2011-05-25 07:35:05 <ArtForz> you'd have to do a week+ of burn-in to find the bad ones
1455 2011-05-25 07:35:09 <_ape> and if their test one fails after they ship the rest of the cards "woops"
1456 2011-05-25 07:35:11 <thermal> hrm ok
1457 2011-05-25 07:35:25 <jargon> I meddle to the point I am not even real anymore.
1458 2011-05-25 07:35:31 <ArtForz> basically if only a few ridges are high enough to make contact, it still works for a while, but the bearing comes loose over time
1459 2011-05-25 07:35:38 <thermal> i suppose they have effectively decided to use the customer as the QA then :)
1460 2011-05-25 07:35:54 <_ape> everybody does
1461 2011-05-25 07:36:05 <ArtForz> once it loses grip, the friction between bearing and hub grinds off the ridges pretty much completely
1462 2011-05-25 07:36:16 <thermal> then they should implement a quick and easy replacement procedure
1463 2011-05-25 07:36:16 <kika_> can someone help me to get my two 6990 cards to work on my m4a89gtd mobo?
1464 2011-05-25 07:36:39 <_ape> have you tried pouring a circle of salt around them and sacrificing a chicken
1465 2011-05-25 07:36:44 <gjs278> kika_
1466 2011-05-25 07:36:47 <stuhood> xino: yea, thanks for the tip. they have a beautiful archive
1467 2011-05-25 07:36:50 <gjs278> plug the video into the card in the first slot
1468 2011-05-25 07:36:52 <gjs278> also
1469 2011-05-25 07:36:53 <ArtForz> _ape: needs at least a goat.
1470 2011-05-25 07:36:54 <gjs278> while the cards are in
1471 2011-05-25 07:36:56 <gjs278> reset the bios
1472 2011-05-25 07:37:02 <_ape> lol
1473 2011-05-25 07:37:08 <gjs278> just hit the button a bunch of times
1474 2011-05-25 07:37:09 <ArtForz> chickens were barely adequate for 5970s
1475 2011-05-25 07:37:12 <gjs278> and then maybe you'll get lucky
1476 2011-05-25 07:37:18 <_ape> i finally got the 5970 out of my main comp today
1477 2011-05-25 07:37:22 <_ape> since the new mobo came
1478 2011-05-25 07:37:23 <alystair> two 6990s?
1479 2011-05-25 07:37:24 <alystair> seriously?
1480 2011-05-25 07:37:30 <gjs278> whats wrong with that
1481 2011-05-25 07:37:31 <alystair> so 'spensive
1482 2011-05-25 07:37:31 <kika_> gsathya: why reset the bios?
1483 2011-05-25 07:37:32 <_ape> its running at 76.5c with a 150cfm delta blowing sideways on it
1484 2011-05-25 07:37:37 <gjs278> look
1485 2011-05-25 07:37:39 <gjs278> it just worked
1486 2011-05-25 07:37:46 <ArtForz> _ape: sounds good
1487 2011-05-25 07:37:48 <_ape> ya
1488 2011-05-25 07:37:49 <kika_> gjs278: why reset the bios?
1489 2011-05-25 07:37:50 <_ape> 90% fan
1490 2011-05-25 07:37:52 <_ape> i can prolly drop it to 80
1491 2011-05-25 07:37:53 <gjs278> I had a 5970 and a 5870
1492 2011-05-25 07:37:53 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1493 2011-05-25 07:37:59 <gjs278> I couldnt get it to display video
1494 2011-05-25 07:38:00 <ArtForz> _ape: yeah
1495 2011-05-25 07:38:03 <gjs278> until I reset the bios
1496 2011-05-25 07:38:06 <gjs278> while they were both in
1497 2011-05-25 07:38:08 <ArtForz> I see nearly 0 diff between 80 and 100% fanspeed on my 5970s
1498 2011-05-25 07:38:08 <gjs278> why I have no idea
1499 2011-05-25 07:38:10 <_ape> i will wait till tomorrow when it gets hotter out
1500 2011-05-25 07:38:15 <_ape> right now its like as cold as its going to get in there
1501 2011-05-25 07:38:15 <gjs278> I run at 70%
1502 2011-05-25 07:38:19 <kika_> gjs278: lol well ill try let me see
1503 2011-05-25 07:38:19 <gjs278> 71C tops
1504 2011-05-25 07:38:21 <ArtForz> maybe half a deg
1505 2011-05-25 07:38:33 <_ape> i definitely saw a difference between 80 and 100 on the 5870s
1506 2011-05-25 07:38:35 <xino> @stuhood I don't know if you ever watched Tech TV back in the day, but Leo Laporte from that channel is usually one of the hosts of Security Now
1507 2011-05-25 07:38:36 <kika_> gjs278: those are two 6990 i already loaded bios defaults, isnt it the same?
1508 2011-05-25 07:38:39 <_ape> like 10c difference
1509 2011-05-25 07:38:46 <ArtForz> _ape: weird
1510 2011-05-25 07:39:00 <gjs278> doesn't matter
1511 2011-05-25 07:39:03 <gjs278> if the system posts with one
1512 2011-05-25 07:39:06 <gjs278> but not both
1513 2011-05-25 07:39:07 <gjs278> just try it
1514 2011-05-25 07:39:08 johnlockwood has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1515 2011-05-25 07:39:09 <_ape> ive got more cards coming thursday so i'll play around with getting them all under 80 again after i add those
1516 2011-05-25 07:39:17 <_ape> right now the highest is 78.5
1517 2011-05-25 07:39:23 <ArtForz> but then I have half of a 150cfm delta forcing air through each 5970
1518 2011-05-25 07:39:28 <_ape> haha
1519 2011-05-25 07:39:35 <_ape> ive got 2 more of those left to use
1520 2011-05-25 07:39:43 <ArtForz> they're pretty awesome
1521 2011-05-25 07:39:44 <_ape> if the need arises
1522 2011-05-25 07:39:46 <_ape> yeah
1523 2011-05-25 07:39:54 <ArtForz> compared their sound to a UK3k yet?
1524 2011-05-25 07:39:58 <_ape> whats weird is the fan hole pattern on the side panel of these cases makes them make a terrible whining sound
1525 2011-05-25 07:40:02 <_ape> doesnt happen on this coolermaster
1526 2011-05-25 07:40:10 <ArtForz> imo the deltas are *way* less annoying
1527 2011-05-25 07:40:15 <kika_> gjs278: the pc booots and beeps with one of those cards however if i place both cards, it doesnt even beeps , and if i crossfire using the cable both cards, it doesnt even beeps
1528 2011-05-25 07:40:27 <gjs278> hit that button
1529 2011-05-25 07:40:28 <gjs278> and come back
1530 2011-05-25 07:40:34 <kika_> gjs278: k brb
1531 2011-05-25 07:40:40 <ArtForz> ahhh... yeah... some fans + stamped metal grill = DIY siren
1532 2011-05-25 07:40:40 <_ape> this goddamn non-ref 5870 with heatpipes prevents me from putting the side panel on the case if i want to put a fan on there
1533 2011-05-25 07:40:46 <_ape> cause its too wide
1534 2011-05-25 07:40:57 <gjs278> my 5870 is fake reference by asus
1535 2011-05-25 07:40:57 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1536 2011-05-25 07:41:02 <_ape> yeah i'm just going to dremel out the entire fan center hole
1537 2011-05-25 07:41:06 <_ape> if i have to use those cases with fans
1538 2011-05-25 07:41:19 <gjs278> I just leave my side panel off for now
1539 2011-05-25 07:41:26 <_ape> yeah thats what i'm doing atm
1540 2011-05-25 07:41:29 <gjs278> the 5870 on a riser has no room otherwise
1541 2011-05-25 07:41:39 <hybriz_> anyone using nvidia on linux ?
1542 2011-05-25 07:41:44 bluejay4 has joined
1543 2011-05-25 07:41:47 <gjs278> hybriz_ just use poclbm
1544 2011-05-25 07:41:50 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1545 2011-05-25 07:41:53 <hybriz_> k
1546 2011-05-25 07:41:56 <ArtForz> yeah, I just cut out that shit and use a $0.49 wire grill on my $15 cases
1547 2011-05-25 07:42:00 <_ape> once i move the boxes into garage (out of cat territory) i can run them all with the sides off
1548 2011-05-25 07:42:11 <bluejay4> When I fire up gui miner, I get no opencl devices were found. I have opencl installed though.
1549 2011-05-25 07:42:15 <_ape> don't want to woodchip any cats
1550 2011-05-25 07:42:16 <_ape> lol
1551 2011-05-25 07:42:21 <gjs278> bluejay4 what os
1552 2011-05-25 07:42:24 <gjs278> windows xp?
1553 2011-05-25 07:42:24 <_ape> fargo style
1554 2011-05-25 07:42:32 <bluejay4> 7 - 64 bit
1555 2011-05-25 07:42:40 <gjs278> I have no assistance for you in that case
1556 2011-05-25 07:42:50 bradmills has joined
1557 2011-05-25 07:42:52 <bluejay4> gjs278: bout to dump it for a nix flavor
1558 2011-05-25 07:42:55 <gjs278> open gpu-z and see if it thinks your opencl is active
1559 2011-05-25 07:43:20 <bluejay4> gjs278: what is gpu-z?
1560 2011-05-25 07:43:29 <gjs278> program for reading gpu stats
1561 2011-05-25 07:43:33 <_ape> gpucapsviewer works too
1562 2011-05-25 07:43:33 xino has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1563 2011-05-25 07:43:36 <gjs278> like temps, clocks, if opencl is on or not
1564 2011-05-25 07:43:39 <gjs278> yeah or that
1565 2011-05-25 07:43:45 <kika_> gjs278: the PSU has to be pluged to the power when i reset? or i need to unplug the power cord from the PSU before reset bios?
1566 2011-05-25 07:44:01 <gjs278> the mobo just needs power but it doesnt have to be on
1567 2011-05-25 07:44:26 <gjs278> you just tap the little button with a pencil 900 times
1568 2011-05-25 07:44:30 <kika_> gjs278: so i think the mobo battery would be okay, ill just unplog the cord from the psu
1569 2011-05-25 07:44:38 <gjs278> whatever
1570 2011-05-25 07:44:43 <gjs278> that fails, hit it while its plugged in
1571 2011-05-25 07:44:51 AAA_awright_ has joined
1572 2011-05-25 07:45:03 <kika_> gjs278: to reset the bios i need to move a jumper
1573 2011-05-25 07:45:06 <bluejay4> Ok... i have i have caps viewer - the version/profile under opencl tab is "OpenCL 1.0 ATI-Stream-v2.1 (145) FULL_PROFILE'
1574 2011-05-25 07:45:07 <kika_> gjs278: ill do that
1575 2011-05-25 07:45:10 <gjs278> oh ok
1576 2011-05-25 07:45:18 <gjs278> my motherboard spoils me
1577 2011-05-25 07:45:25 <gjs278> that's a good sign
1578 2011-05-25 07:45:42 <gjs278> try using phoenix and see what it says
1579 2011-05-25 07:45:49 <gjs278> its an alternative miner
1580 2011-05-25 07:46:49 <jrmithdobbs> my preferred method is a towel + tweezers
1581 2011-05-25 07:47:18 <jrmithdobbs> because i can't find my rubber handled pliers and fuck dragging that box of old crap that may actually still have jumpers in it out of the closet ;P
1582 2011-05-25 07:47:23 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1583 2011-05-25 07:47:37 <ArtForz> whats the towel for?
1584 2011-05-25 07:47:55 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: all metal tweezers ... so just in case
1585 2011-05-25 07:47:58 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
1586 2011-05-25 07:48:14 <jrmithdobbs> noo reason to tempt fate
1587 2011-05-25 07:49:22 xino has joined
1588 2011-05-25 07:49:29 <ArtForz> oh, and I thought it was a hhgttg ref ;)
1589 2011-05-25 07:50:04 <jrmithdobbs> kind of was, i really use the oven mitt but towel sounds better ;P
1590 2011-05-25 07:50:20 <ArtForz> I generally use a #2 philips
1591 2011-05-25 07:50:51 <ArtForz> no towel.
1592 2011-05-25 07:50:56 <jrmithdobbs> one i usually have on hand is a shitty as fuck conductor
1593 2011-05-25 07:51:29 <_ape> you know you can just take any old case and rip off the power switch? :P
1594 2011-05-25 07:51:35 <_ape> thats what i did last time i was running a caseless box
1595 2011-05-25 07:51:44 <kika_> gjs278: actually my motherboard doesnt have a button or jumber to reset the BIOS so ill just upgrade the BIOS, thats what you want?
1596 2011-05-25 07:51:45 <_ape> go to goodwill and grab one out of the dumpster or something
1597 2011-05-25 07:51:47 <ArtForz> _ape: yep, and sontantly forget where you put it
1598 2011-05-25 07:51:58 <gjs278> kika_ that actually is not what I want
1599 2011-05-25 07:52:05 <gjs278> how could your mobo not have a bios reset though
1600 2011-05-25 07:52:17 <jrmithdobbs> has to
1601 2011-05-25 07:52:19 xino has quit (Client Quit)
1602 2011-05-25 07:52:22 <_ape> you should be able to reset the bios from in the bios too
1603 2011-05-25 07:52:22 <kika_> gjs278: my mobo has a reset for the CMOS time stuff
1604 2011-05-25 07:52:25 <_ape> if it posts
1605 2011-05-25 07:52:39 npouillard has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1606 2011-05-25 07:52:42 <gjs278> my board didnt post with 59 + 58, I reset, it posts
1607 2011-05-25 07:52:47 <_ape> nicest one ive had used a 2 digit LED display on the mobo itself
1608 2011-05-25 07:52:52 <kika_> _ape: tes i already did it, i loaded defaults from the bios itself
1609 2011-05-25 07:52:54 <_ape> which showed how far it got in the post sequence
1610 2011-05-25 07:52:57 <_ape> of course the board died after 2 years
1611 2011-05-25 07:53:04 <_ape> so it came in handy in knowing exactly how fucked it was
1612 2011-05-25 07:53:05 <_ape> lol
1613 2011-05-25 07:53:07 <gjs278> no idea then really
1614 2011-05-25 07:53:08 <ArtForz> _ape: plenty MSIs still have that
1615 2011-05-25 07:53:11 <jrmithdobbs> _ape: some of us live with women who frown upon stockpiling old useless equipment ;P
1616 2011-05-25 07:53:22 <_ape> died just after the warranty period ofc
1617 2011-05-25 07:53:34 <kika_> gjs278: my mobo has a clear rtc ram in cmos
1618 2011-05-25 07:53:35 <ArtForz> jrmithdobbs: you're doing it wrong
1619 2011-05-25 07:53:36 <kika_> its for real time clock
1620 2011-05-25 07:53:50 <gjs278> yeah I dont know then
1621 2011-05-25 07:53:53 <kika_> gjs278: so basically i already tried to load bios defaults
1622 2011-05-25 07:54:00 <gjs278> it wasnt even bios defaults for me
1623 2011-05-25 07:54:08 <_ape> lol
1624 2011-05-25 07:54:11 <jrmithdobbs> ArtForz: ha
1625 2011-05-25 07:54:20 <kika_> gjs278: if you reset the bios it should be bios defaults?
1626 2011-05-25 07:54:26 <gjs278> no I mean
1627 2011-05-25 07:54:30 <gjs278> setting to bios defaults
1628 2011-05-25 07:54:32 <gjs278> while one card in
1629 2011-05-25 07:54:34 <gjs278> did nothing to help me
1630 2011-05-25 07:54:44 <gjs278> it was just magic
1631 2011-05-25 07:54:52 <jrmithdobbs> ya i had a board that freaked out like that too
1632 2011-05-25 07:54:52 <_ape> i have like a 6ft stack of boxes in here, need to take them to the dump
1633 2011-05-25 07:54:55 <jrmithdobbs> same fix
1634 2011-05-25 07:55:20 <kika_> jrmithdobbs: you fixed it by reseting bios too ?
1635 2011-05-25 07:55:24 <_ape> glad i didnt do it yet since now i have something to send this card in
1636 2011-05-25 07:55:24 <jrmithdobbs> ya
1637 2011-05-25 07:55:33 <gjs278> kika_ what motherboard do you have again
1638 2011-05-25 07:55:38 npouillard has joined
1639 2011-05-25 07:55:51 <kika_> my mobo is a m4a89gtd mobo and i want to place two 6990 cards on it, however i cant get the monitor to display anything yet
1640 2011-05-25 07:55:53 <bradmills> Anyone working on cool bitcoin projects right now?
1641 2011-05-25 07:56:11 <gjs278> okay my board was also asus
1642 2011-05-25 07:56:19 <bradmills> (bitcoin-mining is a good place for bitcoin mining tips
1643 2011-05-25 07:56:22 <kika_> i dont mind really if the 6990 are crossfired or not because i want to use them for mining
1644 2011-05-25 07:56:49 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: mine wasn't
1645 2011-05-25 07:56:54 <_ape> yeah too bad that channel is dead
1646 2011-05-25 07:56:55 <_ape> :X
1647 2011-05-25 07:57:08 <gjs278> http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/786/screenshotjf.png what the hell is this gray button
1648 2011-05-25 07:57:16 <_ape> spdif
1649 2011-05-25 07:57:37 <OneFixt> gjs278: optical
1650 2011-05-25 07:57:50 <_ape> toslink specifically
1651 2011-05-25 07:58:20 <_ape> incase you need to turn your mining rig into a home theater system
1652 2011-05-25 07:58:21 <gjs278> kika_
1653 2011-05-25 07:58:23 <_ape> :P
1654 2011-05-25 07:58:28 <gjs278> Cons: The BIOS is a little finicky if it is not set up just right. The ASUS software seems to make the POST fail every once in a while (just hit reset and tada)
1655 2011-05-25 07:58:32 <gjs278> that was a con listed for your board
1656 2011-05-25 07:58:35 <gjs278> notice the man hitting "reset"
1657 2011-05-25 07:58:42 <gjs278> oh
1658 2011-05-25 07:58:43 <gjs278> nevermind
1659 2011-05-25 07:58:44 <_ape> is that with latest bios revision?
1660 2011-05-25 07:58:45 <gjs278> different reset
1661 2011-05-25 07:59:02 Strom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1662 2011-05-25 07:59:13 Strom has joined
1663 2011-05-25 07:59:13 <gjs278> either way, the thing is supposed to have a reset because when you screw up your overclock asus boards can recover from it with a bios reset button
1664 2011-05-25 07:59:33 <jrmithdobbs> hate those stupid dimple buttons
1665 2011-05-25 07:59:39 <kika_> gjs278: i cant find it on the manuathat came with the board btw
1666 2011-05-25 07:59:44 <jrmithdobbs> fucking infuriating to find
1667 2011-05-25 07:59:44 <gjs278> lol
1668 2011-05-25 07:59:53 <gjs278> just google for the manual
1669 2011-05-25 07:59:54 <kika_> gjs278: im going to upgrade the bios btw
1670 2011-05-25 07:59:55 <gjs278> it will tell you there
1671 2011-05-25 07:59:59 <gjs278> no point really
1672 2011-05-25 08:00:02 <gjs278> I mean
1673 2011-05-25 08:00:04 <gjs278> sure go ahead
1674 2011-05-25 08:00:08 <kika_> gjs278: okay ill google the manual a second
1675 2011-05-25 08:00:24 <gjs278> it will be on asus's website if you lookup thiss pecific board too
1676 2011-05-25 08:00:32 <jrmithdobbs> i'll take a good 'ole jumper over those stupid buttons any day
1677 2011-05-25 08:00:33 <gjs278> the same place you'll be getting that bios update file
1678 2011-05-25 08:00:52 wolfspraul has joined
1679 2011-05-25 08:01:12 <jrmithdobbs> leds on the main board can fuckin diaf too as far as i'm concerned
1680 2011-05-25 08:01:22 <_ape> yeah
1681 2011-05-25 08:01:28 <_ape> this msi i got has a fuckton of blue leds
1682 2011-05-25 08:01:36 <jrmithdobbs> and those godawful led fans too
1683 2011-05-25 08:01:37 justend has joined
1684 2011-05-25 08:01:42 <jrmithdobbs> wtf is that shit
1685 2011-05-25 08:01:44 <_ape> leds in general are way overused
1686 2011-05-25 08:01:44 <_ape> :X
1687 2011-05-25 08:01:47 <_ape> they should all be red
1688 2011-05-25 08:01:53 <_ape> at least
1689 2011-05-25 08:02:08 <jrmithdobbs> well, they serve one purpose
1690 2011-05-25 08:02:27 <_ape> it doesnt need to be on at all under normal operating conditions
1691 2011-05-25 08:02:29 <jrmithdobbs> anyone who uses said fans can safely be ignored re: computers. all topics.
1692 2011-05-25 08:02:32 <_ape> i can see having them there as error indicators
1693 2011-05-25 08:02:54 <_ape> well we can thank those gamers for the proliferation of cheap ass chinese cases that can take 6+ fans
1694 2011-05-25 08:03:31 <_ape> even if you have to drill out the drive bays to fit a 5870
1695 2011-05-25 08:03:40 <jrmithdobbs> haha
1696 2011-05-25 08:03:45 <_ape> just did my 3rd case like that today
1697 2011-05-25 08:03:45 <_ape> lol
1698 2011-05-25 08:03:53 <_ape> need to find a way to pull the damn rivets off the drill bit
1699 2011-05-25 08:03:53 <jrmithdobbs> you just need to get more creative
1700 2011-05-25 08:04:02 <jrmithdobbs> pcie extenders and zip ties are your friend
1701 2011-05-25 08:04:11 <_ape> yeah i havent bought any extenders yet
1702 2011-05-25 08:04:56 <kika_> gjs278: its not even on the online manual, its the same manual i have printed
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1704 2011-05-25 08:09:14 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
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1707 2011-05-25 08:15:38 <bradmills> anyone here working on bitcoin pool software?
1708 2011-05-25 08:16:24 budgie has joined
1709 2011-05-25 08:18:11 _Netsniper_ is now known as Netsniper
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1724 2011-05-25 08:32:31 <doublec> bradmills: are you looking for software?
1725 2011-05-25 08:32:39 <doublec> bradmills: there's jgarzik's pushpoold
1726 2011-05-25 08:34:08 <hybriz_> what is the best ATI 6990 to buy ?
1727 2011-05-25 08:34:18 <hybriz_> is the VTX3D any good ?
1728 2011-05-25 08:34:27 <hybriz_> http://www.amazon.co.uk/VTX3D-Radeon-6990-PCI--Graphics/dp/B004ULFWE4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1306311902&sr=8-2 -> cheap :)
1729 2011-05-25 08:34:41 <hybriz_> or da shapphire
1730 2011-05-25 08:36:08 Backburn has joined
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1732 2011-05-25 08:36:52 sacarlson has joined
1733 2011-05-25 08:37:21 nevezen has joined
1734 2011-05-25 08:37:54 <hybriz_> XFX Radeon HD 5870 -> is this one any good ?
1735 2011-05-25 08:39:49 eamon has joined
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1740 2011-05-25 08:44:13 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
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1743 2011-05-25 08:57:03 <jrmithdobbs> was hilarious to watch
1744 2011-05-25 08:57:13 <jrmithdobbs> erm wrong window
1745 2011-05-25 08:57:35 <jrmithdobbs> this channel is not about dicks butts, my bad
1746 2011-05-25 08:57:52 tauri has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1747 2011-05-25 08:58:23 nuke- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1748 2011-05-25 08:59:02 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
1749 2011-05-25 08:59:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126567 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 440 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 13 hours, 46 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 414341.15135751
1750 2011-05-25 08:59:09 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
1751 2011-05-25 08:59:09 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.51,"low":6.96,"vol":32302,"buy":7.2529,"sell":7.3997,"last":7.253}}
1752 2011-05-25 09:02:10 RazielZ has joined
1753 2011-05-25 09:05:05 <ersi> lol.. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade became chinese
1754 2011-05-25 09:06:08 <gjs278> fucking chinese hackers
1755 2011-05-25 09:06:12 <AAA_awright> Guys
1756 2011-05-25 09:06:16 <AAA_awright> What happened to the wiki
1757 2011-05-25 09:06:51 <jrmithdobbs> lol
1758 2011-05-25 09:06:59 <_ape> lol
1759 2011-05-25 09:07:06 <ersi> It chinesified
1760 2011-05-25 09:07:46 <gjs278> Satoshi is striking back
1761 2011-05-25 09:08:06 <AAA_awright> I thought we thought Satoshi was Japanese?
1762 2011-05-25 09:08:09 <jrabbit> Thats an intresting social commentary bitcoin wiki.
1763 2011-05-25 09:08:25 <jrabbit> clearly it has become sentient
1764 2011-05-25 09:08:33 <jrabbit> its performance art.
1765 2011-05-25 09:08:50 <AAA_awright> Since I don't want to interrupt #bitcoin let me ask developers... Has anyone read Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson?
1766 2011-05-25 09:09:31 <ersi> I have.
1767 2011-05-25 09:09:37 <ersi> It's a hueg book.
1768 2011-05-25 09:09:50 <AAA_awright> Any parallels to Bitcoin?
1769 2011-05-25 09:09:56 <AAA_awright> I haven't no spoilers please :p
1770 2011-05-25 09:11:05 BurtyBB has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1772 2011-05-25 09:11:10 BurtyB has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1773 2011-05-25 09:11:31 <ersi> AAA_awright: It's more about gold and treasure
1774 2011-05-25 09:11:38 <AAA_awright> Mhm
1775 2011-05-25 09:11:46 <ersi> Ending was anti-climax, but still Awwwright
1776 2011-05-25 09:12:11 <ersi> Dunno wtf is up with these writers, write amazing works until the end.. where they just Meh it
1777 2011-05-25 09:12:33 justend has quit (Quit: 离å¼)
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1781 2011-05-25 09:16:38 <jrmithdobbs> AAA_awright: stephenson and gibson are fucking hacks
1782 2011-05-25 09:16:43 <jrmithdobbs> don't waste your time
1783 2011-05-25 09:16:53 <ersi> I liked cryptonomicon though.
1784 2011-05-25 09:16:54 <AAA_awright> Who's this gibson?
1785 2011-05-25 09:16:59 <ersi> William Gibson
1786 2011-05-25 09:17:03 <jrmithdobbs> i fuckin burned a copy of neuromancer
1787 2011-05-25 09:17:10 <AAA_awright> jrmithdobbs: I've heard lots of good things about Stephenson I just haven't gotten to it
1788 2011-05-25 09:17:11 <jrmithdobbs> fuck that shit
1789 2011-05-25 09:17:20 <ersi> Neuromancer being his most famous book afaik
1790 2011-05-25 09:17:28 <AAA_awright> ... Alright if you can't even properly critique a work I'm dismissing you
1791 2011-05-25 09:17:29 <ersi> jrmithdobbs: Burned?
1792 2011-05-25 09:17:35 <ersi> oh, burned the book :D
1793 2011-05-25 09:17:41 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: yes, as in lit it on fire in a metal trash can
1794 2011-05-25 09:17:52 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
1795 2011-05-25 09:18:37 <jrmithdobbs> AAA_awright: it's boring, trite, condescending, implausible, dry, no character development outside of stock boilerplate fluff
1796 2011-05-25 09:18:40 <jrmithdobbs> AAA_awright: i can go on.
1797 2011-05-25 09:18:56 <ersi> I enjoyed reading it as well, I've read through 'The Bridge trilogy'
1798 2011-05-25 09:19:06 <ersi> But The Difference Engine was quite Meh
1799 2011-05-25 09:19:13 <jrmithdobbs> AAA_awright: unrealistic dialog, mysoginistic
1800 2011-05-25 09:19:14 <jrmithdobbs> AAA_awright: etc.
1801 2011-05-25 09:19:26 <ersi> might be that I had difficulty reading the British English
1802 2011-05-25 09:19:48 <ersi> and it felt dry, even though the concept was interesting
1803 2011-05-25 09:20:04 <jrmithdobbs> AAA_awright: how's that for proper critique?
1804 2011-05-25 09:20:11 <AAA_awright> Hmm
1805 2011-05-25 09:20:23 <AAA_awright> How can a book be condescending?
1806 2011-05-25 09:20:31 <jrmithdobbs> AAA_awright: all of the above apply to both stephenson and gibson imho
1807 2011-05-25 09:20:39 <jrmithdobbs> actually, s/imho/imo/
1808 2011-05-25 09:20:44 <AAA_awright> jrmithdobbs: Have you watched The Royal Tenenbaums?
1809 2011-05-25 09:21:04 <ersi> jrmithdobbs: How about B. Sterling?
1810 2011-05-25 09:21:12 <jrmithdobbs> AAA_awright: it's condescending in that both authors try too hard to make themselves appear smart and fail horribly.
1811 2011-05-25 09:21:57 <jrmithdobbs> AAA_awright: it reads like talking to a d&d nerd who is absolutely horrified that you don't understand the difference between a d8 and d12 and immediately begins talking to you like a child because of it
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1814 2011-05-25 09:22:55 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: i stopped at stephenson and gibson because if the "best examples" of the genre were that bad i didn't want to attempt anything else
1815 2011-05-25 09:23:37 <ersi> Heh, only thing I've read of him is The Difference Engine which was a work of both Gibson and Sterling
1816 2011-05-25 09:23:57 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: i would rather read battlefield earth (the unabridged edition) than another cyberpunk author
1817 2011-05-25 09:24:20 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: and i have read that before and fully understand the implications of that claim.
1818 2011-05-25 09:24:33 <jrmithdobbs> (bought second hand though, not givinc cos my money)
1819 2011-05-25 09:25:02 <ersi> LOL
1820 2011-05-25 09:25:14 <ersi> By Mr. R. Hubbard
1821 2011-05-25 09:25:48 <jrmithdobbs> battlefield earth, at least the first not the long line of sequals, really actually wasn't that bad. if you know what all went down with cos not long after he published it it's actually quite the hilarious read
1822 2011-05-25 09:25:55 Incitatus has joined
1823 2011-05-25 09:26:18 <jrmithdobbs> because 90% of the cos' mythology is rooted in the battlefield earth "world"
1824 2011-05-25 09:27:14 justend has joined
1825 2011-05-25 09:27:57 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: but then, i don't really like scifi books much at all. too formulaic and mysoginistic for my taste. ;P
1826 2011-05-25 09:28:50 <ersi> Everyone to his and her own taste I guess :)
1827 2011-05-25 09:29:05 <ersi> </boring neutral statement>
1828 2011-05-25 09:29:09 <jrmithdobbs> ha
1829 2011-05-25 09:29:40 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: i love bradbury though
1830 2011-05-25 09:30:01 <jrmithdobbs> but that's because he didn't really write scifi, his stuff just all got labeled scifi.
1831 2011-05-25 09:30:03 <ersi> ah, Fahrenheit 451 author
1832 2011-05-25 09:30:15 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: martian chronicles is an amazing (and quick) read
1833 2011-05-25 09:30:18 <ersi> That's on my TOREAD list
1834 2011-05-25 09:30:27 <ersi> oh, I'll have to add it then :)
1835 2011-05-25 09:30:36 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: it's like 100 pages
1836 2011-05-25 09:30:49 <ersi> ha, that's like an hour read for me
1837 2011-05-25 09:30:58 <jrmithdobbs> ya
1838 2011-05-25 09:31:09 BurtyB has joined
1839 2011-05-25 09:31:10 <ersi> I read (too?) quickly, but that means I can go back and re-read a book once in a while
1840 2011-05-25 09:31:52 <jrmithdobbs> how have you not read 451F though?
1841 2011-05-25 09:32:21 <jrmithdobbs> non-native english speaker?
1842 2011-05-25 09:32:39 <ersi> Both correct
1843 2011-05-25 09:32:52 <ersi> I havn't read 1984 either
1844 2011-05-25 09:32:56 * ersi waits for a *gasp!*
1845 2011-05-25 09:32:58 <jrmithdobbs> ok, that's forgivable then
1846 2011-05-25 09:33:00 <jrmithdobbs> nah
1847 2011-05-25 09:33:49 <jrmithdobbs> you probably understand enough of 1984 just from pop-culture references tbqh, it doesn't live up to the hype imho
1848 2011-05-25 09:34:13 <jrmithdobbs> it's a good book, don't get me wrong
1849 2011-05-25 09:34:31 <ersi> yeah, I've figured it's probably 'spoiled' for me already
1850 2011-05-25 09:35:35 <jrmithdobbs> but see, if you consider that scifi, that's the kind of scifi i like. not pew pew laser robot computer crap
1851 2011-05-25 09:35:53 Incitatus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1852 2011-05-25 09:36:43 <ersi> I like thought provocative stories which introduces and describes futuristic and thoughtful concepts
1853 2011-05-25 09:38:02 <jrmithdobbs> you should add cat's cradle to your list
1854 2011-05-25 09:38:06 <jrmithdobbs> then
1855 2011-05-25 09:39:18 <ersi> Gave me a shrug/shill reading the description on Wikipedia, so I guess I'll do that
1856 2011-05-25 09:39:41 <ersi> hm, K. Vonnegut rings a bell
1857 2011-05-25 09:40:21 <jrmithdobbs> aye, he should
1858 2011-05-25 09:41:07 <ersi> Player piano!
1859 2011-05-25 09:41:12 guest has joined
1860 2011-05-25 09:41:35 <guest> so how can I tell how many transactions are in the current block?
1861 2011-05-25 09:41:50 <ersi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut#Self-assessment <3
1862 2011-05-25 09:46:01 <ersi> lol, coincidentally Mark Zuckerberg is born 1984
1863 2011-05-25 09:49:03 <UukGoblin> he's around my age then... damn, I'm a loser ;-P
1864 2011-05-25 09:49:20 <jrmithdobbs> seriously, stop reminding me
1865 2011-05-25 09:49:23 <jrmithdobbs> ugh
1866 2011-05-25 09:49:37 <ersi> I'm a 1989-edition.
1867 2011-05-25 09:50:20 jine has joined
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1870 2011-05-25 09:53:33 paulo_ has joined
1871 2011-05-25 09:53:46 <paulo_> i have a 128bit AES key i'm trying to find. is it possible to put it on bitcoin?
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1873 2011-05-25 09:54:13 <hybriz_> paulo_: no.
1874 2011-05-25 09:54:23 <hybriz_> paulo_: bitcoin hashing is SHA256
1875 2011-05-25 09:54:23 <ersi> paulo_: It's not a random computational network
1876 2011-05-25 09:54:30 <hybriz_> paulo_: u brazilian ?
1877 2011-05-25 09:54:32 <ersi> you can't push random work out
1878 2011-05-25 09:54:48 <paulo_> how is new work put into the netowrk?
1879 2011-05-25 09:55:04 <TripleF> Also the bitcoin network wouldn't crack that for a few billion years..
1880 2011-05-25 09:55:12 <paulo_> hybriz_: not brazillian...
1881 2011-05-25 09:55:14 <ersi> By peers talking to each other and sending transactions between each other
1882 2011-05-25 09:55:24 <jine> paulo_: Please read a little about how bitcoin works before asking stupid questions.
1883 2011-05-25 09:56:19 <hybriz_> paulo_: portuguese ?
1884 2011-05-25 09:56:27 <jine> Hes from asia, i guess.
1885 2011-05-25 09:56:32 <jine> based on his ip-address.
1886 2011-05-25 09:56:33 <hybriz_> nah, paulo is a PT name
1887 2011-05-25 09:57:00 <jine> Philippines to be more exact :')
1888 2011-05-25 09:57:16 <paulo_> hybriz_: im in a country that used to be a spanish colony. so you're getting close
1889 2011-05-25 09:57:30 <hybriz_> yeah, cause there arent any proxies or Tor nodes in philiphines right :p
1890 2011-05-25 09:57:31 <paulo_> jine: yep, that's right (only read that now)
1891 2011-05-25 09:57:37 <hybriz_> lol
1892 2011-05-25 09:57:40 <jine> Back to subject, anyone here using pushpoold?
1893 2011-05-25 09:57:43 <hybriz_> paulo_: why u want to break AES128 ?
1894 2011-05-25 09:57:47 <jine> hybriz_: :)
1895 2011-05-25 09:57:59 <paulo_> just some random stuff.
1896 2011-05-25 09:58:09 <hybriz_> yeah right lol
1897 2011-05-25 09:58:14 <hybriz_> wont help then :)
1898 2011-05-25 09:58:15 <jine> Forgot the key to your pr0narchive?
1899 2011-05-25 09:58:22 <paulo_> how many pflops does bitcoin have now? can't find the wiki page
1900 2011-05-25 09:58:41 <jine> http://bitcoinwatch.com/
1901 2011-05-25 09:58:51 <jine> At the bottom to the left.
1902 2011-05-25 09:59:03 <TripleF> paulo_, a brute force attack on AES128 is impossible..
1903 2011-05-25 09:59:11 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1904 2011-05-25 09:59:47 <hybriz_> TripleF: not true
1905 2011-05-25 09:59:47 <paulo_> wow. 47.5 is impressive.
1906 2011-05-25 09:59:56 <hybriz_> depends on what are you really attacking
1907 2011-05-25 10:00:10 <gjs278> is there a multithreaded application that will symmetric encrypt/decrypt a file using aes128
1908 2011-05-25 10:00:10 <TripleF> Yeah.. Unless there's something else you know about the target..
1909 2011-05-25 10:00:10 <hybriz_> for example, if it's a zip file with AES128 CBC
1910 2011-05-25 10:00:17 <hybriz_> you can do various types of atacks
1911 2011-05-25 10:00:28 <TripleF> Yeah.. But that's not a brute force attack.. ;p
1912 2011-05-25 10:00:36 <hybriz_> TripleF: AES128 is too abstract, it can be used for alot of things
1913 2011-05-25 10:00:45 <hybriz_> and depending on the use, there can be good attacks or not :)
1914 2011-05-25 10:00:55 <hybriz_> for zip crypto for example, if you know some plaintext
1915 2011-05-25 10:01:02 <hybriz_> using amazon GPU breaks it really fast
1916 2011-05-25 10:01:38 <TripleF> I wasn't aware there was a known plaintext attack on AES128?
1917 2011-05-25 10:01:46 <TripleF> Unless there's something weird with how zip crypto works..
1918 2011-05-25 10:01:52 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1922 2011-05-25 10:02:51 <hybriz_> TripleF: of course it exploits flaws in implementation
1923 2011-05-25 10:02:57 <hybriz_> there is not a known plaintext attack on AES
1924 2011-05-25 10:03:02 <Sage> hey guys, may i ask, when i downclocked my memory on 6990 to 625 /from 1250/, how much should i (or shouldnt it?) lower the voltage?
1925 2011-05-25 10:03:03 <hybriz_> that's why i asked what he wants it for
1926 2011-05-25 10:03:05 <TripleF> Ah, OK.. That makes sense..
1927 2011-05-25 10:03:28 <hybriz_> breaing AES is pointless for most uses :) you always have "workarounds"
1928 2011-05-25 10:03:54 <gjs278> Sage I dont think you'll be able to lower the voltage at all really
1929 2011-05-25 10:03:56 <TripleF> The only time I've ever "cracked" AES was when I got my code running on an otherwise secure system..
1930 2011-05-25 10:04:04 <TripleF> And then I just dumped the keys over serial.. ;p
1931 2011-05-25 10:04:17 <gjs278> but go ahead and try it out just one bump at a time
1932 2011-05-25 10:04:57 <Sage> do you have any working settings for sapphire 6990? gpu/mem? (i think afterburner allows playing with voltage)
1933 2011-05-25 10:06:46 <hybriz_> TripleF: ;)
1934 2011-05-25 10:07:01 <hybriz_> TripleF: i did it on a laptop via firewire a few times too :p
1935 2011-05-25 10:07:08 Akinava has quit (Quit: УÑ
Ð¾Ð¶Ñ Ñ Ð¾Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ)
1936 2011-05-25 10:07:13 <hybriz_> firewire allows for DMA, which is nice
1937 2011-05-25 10:08:03 <TripleF> Yeah.. That's one way.. ;p
1938 2011-05-25 10:08:12 <TripleF> What system was it?
1939 2011-05-25 10:09:31 <ersi> ;;bc,stats
1940 2011-05-25 10:09:32 necrodearia has joined
1941 2011-05-25 10:09:32 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126583 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 424 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 12 hours, 23 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 415308.68233779
1942 2011-05-25 10:13:40 guest has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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1944 2011-05-25 10:15:32 <hybriz_> TripleF: windows :)
1945 2011-05-25 10:15:37 <hybriz_> but firewire works on any OS
1946 2011-05-25 10:15:48 <TripleF> Like, what was the encryption?
1947 2011-05-25 10:15:53 <TripleF> TrueCrypt or something else?
1948 2011-05-25 10:16:46 Lis has joined
1949 2011-05-25 10:19:28 Lis is now known as Akinava
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1954 2011-05-25 10:28:45 <Tritonio> when mt gox starts supporting EUR/BTC rates... what should I do with my curency converter? Currently it only used the USD/BTC rate from mt gox and then used the google search rates to find BTC/EUR etc... now what? If I start using the new rate I believe that the USD/EUR rate that would be deducted by BTC/EUR and BTC/USD would be somewhat off the one of google search, making the converter practically useless for EUR-USD conversions...
1955 2011-05-25 10:29:14 <sipa> any news about when a EUR mtgox market will open?
1956 2011-05-25 10:30:03 ahbritto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1958 2011-05-25 10:30:25 <Tritonio> June i think.
1959 2011-05-25 10:30:36 <UukGoblin> june, interesting
1960 2011-05-25 10:30:52 <UukGoblin> that's about the time when they might need a bloody expensive license for usd
1961 2011-05-25 10:32:22 <Tritonio> so any advice?
1962 2011-05-25 10:32:48 <Sage> please im really lame, but i dont know where the 6990 has the legendary "bios oc switch"... can someone help?
1963 2011-05-25 10:34:25 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1965 2011-05-25 10:41:29 Sage has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1966 2011-05-25 10:41:51 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
1967 2011-05-25 10:41:56 Kurtov has joined
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1969 2011-05-25 10:43:59 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r8b0fec8 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Adding changes from mtrlt, makes it 0.5% faster - http://bit.ly/lbkUfX
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1976 2011-05-25 10:56:59 <UukGoblin> DiabloD3, now what
1977 2011-05-25 10:57:06 <DiabloD3> UukGoblin: what
1978 2011-05-25 10:57:08 <UukGoblin> some math magic?
1979 2011-05-25 10:57:17 <UukGoblin> just reading your latest commit
1980 2011-05-25 10:57:19 <DiabloD3> he moved 2 adds into the java side
1981 2011-05-25 10:57:32 <UukGoblin> insane ;-]
1982 2011-05-25 10:58:05 <mtrlt> plus shuffled some other shit :p
1983 2011-05-25 10:58:16 <DiabloD3> well like I said
1984 2011-05-25 10:58:20 <DiabloD3> the shuffling wont help much
1985 2011-05-25 10:58:25 <DiabloD3> the compiler takes the whole fucking kernel apart
1986 2011-05-25 10:58:28 <DiabloD3> and rebuilds it
1987 2011-05-25 10:58:30 <mtrlt> true
1988 2011-05-25 10:58:41 <mtrlt> umm, actually not
1989 2011-05-25 10:58:55 <DiabloD3> dude, I told you about the shit I did
1990 2011-05-25 10:58:57 <mtrlt> because that shuffling optimizations work on poclbm
1991 2011-05-25 10:59:00 <DiabloD3> its magic
1992 2011-05-25 10:59:04 <mtrlt> got from 319.5 to 321
1993 2011-05-25 10:59:04 * DiabloD3 shrugs
1994 2011-05-25 10:59:10 soossii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1995 2011-05-25 10:59:10 devrandom1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1996 2011-05-25 10:59:12 <mtrlt> and i didn't do the arg tricks :p
1997 2011-05-25 10:59:12 <DiabloD3> it MIGHT work on nvidia better though
1998 2011-05-25 10:59:20 <DiabloD3> since nvidia has a fucking shit compiler
1999 2011-05-25 10:59:45 <DiabloD3> like, mine now really fucking kills that cuda miner
2000 2011-05-25 10:59:49 devrandom1 has joined
2001 2011-05-25 10:59:57 <mtrlt> hehe
2002 2011-05-25 11:06:30 <DiabloD3> and that was before your patch
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2010 2011-05-25 11:19:44 <krekbwoy> is it possible that alot of bitcoins will get "lost" in addresses for which the private key has been lost?
2011 2011-05-25 11:19:55 <sipa> some, sure
2012 2011-05-25 11:20:15 <sipa> but as their value increases, people will become increasingly aware of the risks
2013 2011-05-25 11:20:31 <krekbwoy> ok, do you think it would be a proplem once coin generation starts slowing down?
2014 2011-05-25 11:20:35 <krekbwoy> yes, for sure
2015 2011-05-25 11:20:44 <sipa> no
2016 2011-05-25 11:21:26 <krekbwoy> alright :) thanks
2017 2011-05-25 11:21:39 <DiabloD3> sipa: its no different than losing money
2018 2011-05-25 11:21:42 <DiabloD3> er
2019 2011-05-25 11:21:43 <sipa> even if 1% is lost every year, it takes 230 years before we lose one digit of precision
2020 2011-05-25 11:21:47 <DiabloD3> krekbwoy:
2021 2011-05-25 11:21:57 <DiabloD3> or when bills get destroyed
2022 2011-05-25 11:22:08 <krekbwoy> DiabloD3: but you print more money :)
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2025 2011-05-25 11:26:04 Astriks_ is now known as Astriks
2026 2011-05-25 11:27:48 <DiabloD3> yes, but thats inflation
2027 2011-05-25 11:28:04 <DiabloD3> bitcoin is a deflationary system
2028 2011-05-25 11:28:13 Astriks has left ()
2029 2011-05-25 11:29:55 <sipa> now, i assume that in bitcoin's first year a lot more than 1% was lost
2030 2011-05-25 11:30:52 <Namegduf> I think once bitcoin has succeeded, people will be much more open to the creation of new currencies like it
2031 2011-05-25 11:31:20 <Namegduf> So if it does break on scalability or deflation or anything at the huge scale in 50 years
2032 2011-05-25 11:31:35 <Namegduf> It'll be solvable without regressing to 20th century methods.
2033 2011-05-25 11:31:41 <theorbtwo> Indeed. I expect that, in time, a new, bitcoin-like currency will emerge that fixes the flaws in bitcoin.
2034 2011-05-25 11:31:53 <theorbtwo> (Flaws that we haven't neccessarly even considered yet.)
2035 2011-05-25 11:31:59 <Namegduf> I think that'll happen if bitcoin breaks.
2036 2011-05-25 11:32:06 <sipa> I expect that, in time, people will mainly disagree about what those flaws are.
2037 2011-05-25 11:32:07 <theorbtwo> The tricky thing will be selling out of bitcoin before your coins are worthless.
2038 2011-05-25 11:32:16 <DiabloD3> well, if bitcoin becomes perminent
2039 2011-05-25 11:32:23 <DiabloD3> the coins will always be worth something
2040 2011-05-25 11:32:28 <noagendamarket> one guy lost 9000 btc at once
2041 2011-05-25 11:32:44 <DiabloD3> I mean, when the United States started printing dollars, did the British Pound go under?
2042 2011-05-25 11:32:56 <theorbtwo> DiabloD3: If, yes.
2043 2011-05-25 11:33:23 <theorbtwo> No, but when it became obvious that the ZWD was dying, it lost a lot of value very, very quickly.
2044 2011-05-25 11:34:12 <DiabloD3> thats because of inflation
2045 2011-05-25 11:34:14 <DiabloD3> and also stupidity
2046 2011-05-25 11:34:20 <DiabloD3> bitcoin cant inflate
2047 2011-05-25 11:34:41 <theorbtwo> I don't think there's room for more then one successful digital currency. When not-bitcoin takes off, it will be because bitcoin has become obviously unusable, and everybody will run to something else.
2048 2011-05-25 11:34:56 <sipa> price inflation can happen, monetary inflation... only in a limited and controlled way
2049 2011-05-25 11:35:07 <x5x> i realized that bitcoin miners will be in the perfect spot to screw up new bitcoinlike currencies
2050 2011-05-25 11:35:23 <x5x> cuz a single big miner will hold probly more than 50% of the new currencies computing power
2051 2011-05-25 11:36:14 <theorbtwo> x5x: On the other hand, a new currency might well be built to resist that.
2052 2011-05-25 11:36:20 <x5x> theorbtwo, yea, possibly
2053 2011-05-25 11:38:39 chmod755 has joined
2054 2011-05-25 11:39:25 <theorbtwo> In fact, if a currency which is more resistant to attacks by a single large miner (or miners acting in collusion) comes about, it could trigger people withdrawing their BTC to move to it, which will lower the value of bitcoin, which will cause miners to move to the new currency, which will cause fears that 50% of the compute power on bitcoin will be in the hands of a few pepole, which will cause more people to move to not-bitcoin.
2055 2011-05-25 11:39:41 GarrettB has joined
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2058 2011-05-25 11:39:59 <x5x> theorbtwo, yea i think btc's biggest failure mode is another bitcoin-like currency
2059 2011-05-25 11:40:26 <x5x> altho i think having hte property you suggested is very tough if not impossible for a completley distributed currency
2060 2011-05-25 11:40:29 <x5x> can you think of any way to do it
2061 2011-05-25 11:40:30 <x5x> ?
2062 2011-05-25 11:42:13 <theorbtwo> x5x: No, I cannot, but I expect somebody will eventually.
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2069 2011-05-25 11:56:56 <eamon> Does the 0.01BTC tx fee apply on btcmine payouts?
2070 2011-05-25 11:58:53 <sipa> @later tell jgarzik it seems SelectCoinsMinConf in main.cpp still uses CENT instead of MIN_TX_FEE, sometimes causing 0.01 fees
2071 2011-05-25 11:58:59 <sipa> ;;later tell jgarzik it seems SelectCoinsMinConf in main.cpp still uses CENT instead of MIN_TX_FEE, sometimes causing 0.01 fees
2072 2011-05-25 11:59:00 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2073 2011-05-25 12:00:57 <ersi> Hm~ Does transactions without a transaction fee still get processed these days?
2074 2011-05-25 12:01:11 <ArtForz> sipa: I think thats on purpose
2075 2011-05-25 12:01:26 Backburn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2076 2011-05-25 12:02:20 <ArtForz> min output size is still 0.01, isn't it?
2077 2011-05-25 12:02:34 <sipa> yes
2078 2011-05-25 12:02:53 <sipa> hmm, wait
2079 2011-05-25 12:03:37 oneman_ has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2080 2011-05-25 12:04:47 <sipa> the question is: is a sub-0.01 output allowed if you pay a 0.0005 fee?
2081 2011-05-25 12:04:48 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2082 2011-05-25 12:05:46 <ArtForz> ... yes
2083 2011-05-25 12:06:02 <ArtForz> great, now selectcoins will get even more complicated...
2084 2011-05-25 12:06:39 <sipa> if a sub-0.01 output is allowed with a 0.0005 fee, the current SelectCoinsMinConf is wrong
2085 2011-05-25 12:06:59 <sipa> since it will not create sub-0.01 outputs, even when just paying a 0.0005 fee is cheaper
2086 2011-05-25 12:07:10 <ArtForz> yes, what I just said
2087 2011-05-25 12:08:05 <ArtForz> actually it's createtransaction causing the problem
2088 2011-05-25 12:08:21 <ArtForz> selectocoinminconf tries to avoid the < 0.01 output if it can
2089 2011-05-25 12:08:49 <sipa> it should try to avoid that output indeed, but not at a cost of more than 0.0005
2090 2011-05-25 12:08:58 <ArtForz> again, thats not its job
2091 2011-05-25 12:09:07 Kurtov has joined
2092 2011-05-25 12:09:36 <ArtForz> createtransaction decides what to do if it selectcoins returns something resulting in < 0.01 change
2093 2011-05-25 12:09:46 <ArtForz> line 3858 on
2094 2011-05-25 12:10:19 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/a14bf1946dfade7c615cd41924c7cd41abdbc119
2095 2011-05-25 12:10:48 <ArtForz> what?
2096 2011-05-25 12:11:10 <ArtForz> again, the stuff in selectcoinsminconf has to be CENT, because limit for mno-fee output is CENT
2097 2011-05-25 12:11:16 <ArtForz> the CENT in createtransaction is wrong
2098 2011-05-25 12:11:49 <ArtForz> am I talking chinese or something?
2099 2011-05-25 12:11:58 pyros1 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2100 2011-05-25 12:12:37 <sipa> selectcoinsminconf will try to find a match for a slightly higher output than requested, if that results in the transaction becoming possible without fees
2101 2011-05-25 12:12:39 <DiabloD3> ni hyao
2102 2011-05-25 12:12:52 <ArtForz> yep
2103 2011-05-25 12:13:03 <ArtForz> and that "slightly higher" means "at least 0.01 in change"
2104 2011-05-25 12:13:11 <DiabloD3> ArtForz: so get this, my miner is now... 0.05% faster
2105 2011-05-25 12:13:18 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2106 2011-05-25 12:13:21 <ArtForz> which is exactly what it does
2107 2011-05-25 12:13:28 <ArtForz> the problem is when it can't do that
2108 2011-05-25 12:13:37 <ArtForz> then it does create a sub-cent output
2109 2011-05-25 12:13:47 <Namegduf> DiabloD3: HOLY SHIT GIMME I MUST HAVE MORE BTCS
2110 2011-05-25 12:13:51 <ArtForz> createtransaction sees that and throws it away as a fee
2111 2011-05-25 12:13:53 <Namegduf> </many apologies>
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2113 2011-05-25 12:14:51 <DiabloD3> btw, why the fuck are we limiting fees to 0.01?
2114 2011-05-25 12:14:58 <ArtForz> what?
2115 2011-05-25 12:14:59 <DiabloD3> just allow sub-cent fees and get over it.
2116 2011-05-25 12:15:04 <ArtForz> WE ALREADY DO
2117 2011-05-25 12:15:15 <ArtForz> min fee is 0.0005
2118 2011-05-25 12:15:22 <ArtForz> last time I checked, 0.0005 < 0.01
2119 2011-05-25 12:15:27 <sipa> it will be, in 0.3.22
2120 2011-05-25 12:15:29 <DiabloD3> ArtForz: wait, arent you arguing sipa's message to jgarzik is wrong?
2121 2011-05-25 12:15:31 <Namegduf> They tried to change it
2122 2011-05-25 12:15:33 <Namegduf> But fucked up
2123 2011-05-25 12:15:45 <ArtForz> ?
2124 2011-05-25 12:15:48 <BlueMatt> should default fee not still be 0.01 though?
2125 2011-05-25 12:15:50 Administrator__ is now known as justend
2126 2011-05-25 12:15:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7749.0
2127 2011-05-25 12:16:04 <ArtForz> Namegduf: what the hell are you talking about
2128 2011-05-25 12:16:16 <BlueMatt> sipa: thats mintxfee, not default txfee
2129 2011-05-25 12:17:13 <sipa> BlueMatt: the client should clearly not send more than the mintxfee in cases where it's not configurable
2130 2011-05-25 12:17:14 <BlueMatt> errr...no, thats a bad idea...ignore me
2131 2011-05-25 12:17:31 <BlueMatt> though it should be configurable
2132 2011-05-25 12:17:36 <ArtForz> unless I'm missing something, line 3859 if (nChange >= CENT) should be >= MIN_TX_FEE
2133 2011-05-25 12:17:45 justend has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2134 2011-05-25 12:17:47 <BlueMatt> currently its really not...all the gui/cli should change to be more verbose about fees
2135 2011-05-25 12:17:52 <sipa> BlueMatt: agree
2136 2011-05-25 12:18:02 <sipa> and it seems to piss people off
2137 2011-05-25 12:18:12 <BlueMatt> anyone have time to write it?
2138 2011-05-25 12:18:14 <ArtForz> yes, and there should be world peace.
2139 2011-05-25 12:18:17 justend has joined
2140 2011-05-25 12:18:27 <sipa> yes, war just pisses people off
2141 2011-05-25 12:18:45 <ArtForz> meanwhile, that line is wrong. selectcoinsminconf is fine until the < 0.01 output limit gets change
2142 2011-05-25 12:18:50 <BlueMatt> I thought war was the result of people pissed off...
2143 2011-05-25 12:18:52 <ArtForz> +d
2144 2011-05-25 12:19:04 <Namegduf> See the violence inherent in the system!
2145 2011-05-25 12:20:48 <ArtForz> Namegduf: no I don't. and if you disagree I'll stab you with a spoon.
2146 2011-05-25 12:21:22 <ArtForz> or a knife, depending on which version of FF4 you're playing
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2151 2011-05-25 12:33:23 x6763 has joined
2152 2011-05-25 12:34:00 <UukGoblin> when is xkcd going to have a comic about bitcoinz? :-]
2153 2011-05-25 12:34:28 <sipa> UukGoblin: ask rmunroe in #bitcoin-otc :)
2154 2011-05-25 12:34:55 <ersi> Hah
2155 2011-05-25 12:35:40 <UukGoblin> aw cool! randall's on IRC
2156 2011-05-25 12:36:04 <ersi> Of course he is. THere's an xkcd-channel you know..
2157 2011-05-25 12:36:28 <ersi> It made the geek news several times when they tried to do a low-noise (ie high uniqueness) channel
2158 2011-05-25 12:36:29 <UukGoblin> yeah, I used to sit there a while ago, but don't recall seeing randall there
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2162 2011-05-25 12:38:32 <UukGoblin> just reading xkcd.com/bitcoin gives me a likely answer to my question
2163 2011-05-25 12:39:15 <sipa> ArtForz: damn, i made a wrong assumption - you're absolutely right
2164 2011-05-25 12:39:36 blueadept has joined
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2183 2011-05-25 13:15:00 paulo_ has joined
2184 2011-05-25 13:15:02 <paulo_> Hello
2185 2011-05-25 13:15:11 <phantomcircuit> hi
2186 2011-05-25 13:15:16 <paulo_> bitcoin is open-source, right?
2187 2011-05-25 13:15:21 <phantomcircuit> yes
2188 2011-05-25 13:15:29 kluge has joined
2189 2011-05-25 13:15:30 <paulo_> where can i see the source?
2190 2011-05-25 13:15:41 <phantomcircuit> http://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
2191 2011-05-25 13:16:48 marlowe has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2192 2011-05-25 13:18:38 agricocb has joined
2193 2011-05-25 13:20:36 Sage has joined
2194 2011-05-25 13:20:39 <Sage> im back :)
2195 2011-05-25 13:21:07 Lazymeerkat has joined
2196 2011-05-25 13:21:26 <Sage> you guys here helped me so much... can you help me once more? :)
2197 2011-05-25 13:21:49 <paulo_> so every node has a copy of the database?
2198 2011-05-25 13:22:23 <phantomcircuit> paulo_, yes
2199 2011-05-25 13:22:39 <paulo_> how big is the database? (in mb)
2200 2011-05-25 13:22:46 <phantomcircuit> currently about 300 mb
2201 2011-05-25 13:22:59 <phantomcircuit> full nodes need a full block chain, however they dont need the full transaction chain
2202 2011-05-25 13:23:13 <phantomcircuit> but nobody has written the code to prune the transactions that are useless yet
2203 2011-05-25 13:23:21 <phantomcircuit> because nobody cares that it's 300 mb
2204 2011-05-25 13:25:13 <Sage> is there any way to cool the vreg temp on second core on 6990?
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Ð¾Ð¶Ñ Ñ Ð¾Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ)
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2212 2011-05-25 13:28:06 <paulo_> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Anyone_with_enough_computing_power_can_take_over_the_network
2213 2011-05-25 13:28:07 <paulo_> it says
2214 2011-05-25 13:28:14 <paulo_> Already the bitcoin network's computing power is on par with some of the world's fastest supercomputers.
2215 2011-05-25 13:28:29 <paulo_> isn't "on par" an understatement?
2216 2011-05-25 13:28:36 <paulo_> it's more like 20x
2217 2011-05-25 13:29:20 Lazymeerkat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2218 2011-05-25 13:29:46 <davex__> outdated
2219 2011-05-25 13:30:27 Lazymeerkat has joined
2220 2011-05-25 13:30:35 <Sage> how about google?
2221 2011-05-25 13:31:02 <Sage> or someone else with lots of computing power already?
2222 2011-05-25 13:31:24 <Sage> but is here anyone who has long mining experience with 6990?
2223 2011-05-25 13:32:24 <ArtForz> yeah, the same guys that have 10+ years experience with win2k8 ;)
2224 2011-05-25 13:32:28 <UukGoblin> Sage, if week counts as 'long'? ;-]
2225 2011-05-25 13:32:33 <UukGoblin> lol
2226 2011-05-25 13:32:48 <UukGoblin> (or 20 years exp in java)
2227 2011-05-25 13:33:03 <Sage> come on
2228 2011-05-25 13:33:38 <ersi> Sage: I think it's better to ask a more specific question
2229 2011-05-25 13:33:40 <Sage> UukGoblin well i have had problems with temperatures, cores were a bit too hot /around 85/
2230 2011-05-25 13:33:48 <Sage> i asked a bit earlier :D
2231 2011-05-25 13:33:54 <Sage> [15:18] <Sage> is there any way to cool the vreg temp on second core on 6990?
2232 2011-05-25 13:33:58 <ersi> Oh, heh. Yeah
2233 2011-05-25 13:34:02 <davex__> turn fans up to 100?
2234 2011-05-25 13:34:07 <Sage> all the time
2235 2011-05-25 13:34:24 <Sage> ersi: i made some progress with the card too...
2236 2011-05-25 13:34:31 <UukGoblin> Sage, hm, I didn't have big problems with temps...
2237 2011-05-25 13:34:47 <Sage> ersi: its now on 881 gpu 407 mem mining at 740Mhash/s
2238 2011-05-25 13:34:50 <UukGoblin> Sage, I have a script keeping it below 80 deg
2239 2011-05-25 13:34:52 <ersi> neat
2240 2011-05-25 13:35:07 <Sage> UukGoblin so you dont have fans on 100% all the time?
2241 2011-05-25 13:35:11 Lazymeerkat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2242 2011-05-25 13:35:18 <Sage> UukGoblin or what does the script do?
2243 2011-05-25 13:35:25 <UukGoblin> Sage, currently (and the room is probably quite hot), it's got one core at 850MHz at 78C, and second core at 735MHz at 79 deg
2244 2011-05-25 13:35:34 <UukGoblin> Sage, I have fans @ 100%
2245 2011-05-25 13:35:38 <UukGoblin> the script adjusts the clock
2246 2011-05-25 13:35:43 <SerajewelKS> is there a switch to make bitcoin not try to connect to anyone, including IRC?
2247 2011-05-25 13:35:43 <krekbwoy> im running 2 x 6970 (unlocked 6950) and they are about 81
2248 2011-05-25 13:35:45 <Sage> ersi: but now im a bit worried about the second vreg, first is ok, but second got to 85 after the "bios switch"
2249 2011-05-25 13:35:51 d1g1t4l has joined
2250 2011-05-25 13:35:54 <SerajewelKS> i want to isolate a testnet instance, but without any firewall trickery
2251 2011-05-25 13:35:56 <krekbwoy> fans on about 50% though
2252 2011-05-25 13:36:17 <UukGoblin> Sage, so, currently second core is clocked down from 850 down to 735 to maintain temp below 80... but at night, both happily run at 850MHz
2253 2011-05-25 13:36:20 <Sage> UukGoblin i have 881 on 67°C
2254 2011-05-25 13:36:30 justend has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2255 2011-05-25 13:36:36 <Sage> UukGoblin so what is your temp on vregs?
2256 2011-05-25 13:36:55 <UukGoblin> Sage, no idea, I'm running on linux, is there any way to check vrm temp from linux?
2257 2011-05-25 13:37:19 <Sage> UukGoblin i have no idea, i use gpu-z to see it
2258 2011-05-25 13:37:21 <ArtForz> VRM temp shouldnt be much of an issue
2259 2011-05-25 13:37:37 <Sage> whats vrm?
2260 2011-05-25 13:37:44 <UukGoblin> voltage regulator module
2261 2011-05-25 13:37:51 <ArtForz> I'd be worried above 105°C VRM or so
2262 2011-05-25 13:37:57 <Sage> oh ok
2263 2011-05-25 13:38:04 <Sage> so we are talking about the same thing, thank god :D
2264 2011-05-25 13:38:13 <doublec> SerajewelKS: have you seen testnet in a box?
2265 2011-05-25 13:38:25 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2266 2011-05-25 13:38:25 <ArtForz> even 105 should be fine long-term really
2267 2011-05-25 13:38:32 <doublec> SerajewelKS: http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=4483.0
2268 2011-05-25 13:38:37 <ArtForz> iirc mfg spec is 110 max long-term
2269 2011-05-25 13:38:44 <ArtForz> and 120 short term
2270 2011-05-25 13:38:49 <Sage> im totally new to the whole hardware and overclocking thing
2271 2011-05-25 13:38:52 molecular has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2272 2011-05-25 13:39:12 <Sage> i just spent 750⬠on card and supply (and fan) and i dont want to see it burn out or something :)
2273 2011-05-25 13:39:35 <ArtForz> ouch.
2274 2011-05-25 13:39:35 <UukGoblin> how much should I be able to clock my 6990 up to btw?
2275 2011-05-25 13:39:45 <UukGoblin> I've tried 825->850 to start with and it seems stable
2276 2011-05-25 13:39:46 <Sage> 1k ive read somewhere
2277 2011-05-25 13:39:48 <Namegduf> Sage: Warranties?
2278 2011-05-25 13:39:51 <doublec> SerajewelKS: it sets up a private difficulty 1 testnet for your own use
2279 2011-05-25 13:39:53 <UukGoblin> I don't want to overvolt it
2280 2011-05-25 13:39:57 <Namegduf> If mine burned out, I'd get them RMA'd
2281 2011-05-25 13:40:02 currentB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2282 2011-05-25 13:40:08 <Sage> Namegduf fyi i managed to downclock the memory, it was my fault not my cards
2283 2011-05-25 13:40:13 <ArtForz> I'd say 900 or so at stock V
2284 2011-05-25 13:40:27 <Sage> UukGoblin i have mine on 881 atm
2285 2011-05-25 13:40:40 <ArtForz> ~960-1k at 6970 voltages
2286 2011-05-25 13:40:50 <x5x> bitcoin network in a box http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/25/cray-xk6-supercomputer-smashes-petaflop-record-humbly-calls-its/
2287 2011-05-25 13:40:52 currentB has joined
2288 2011-05-25 13:41:00 <ArtForz> x5x: old. and booring
2289 2011-05-25 13:41:04 <x5x> :[
2290 2011-05-25 13:41:06 <SerajewelKS> doublec: doesn't that use a standard bitcoind build?
2291 2011-05-25 13:41:09 <Sage> UukGoblin and how are your mems?
2292 2011-05-25 13:41:14 <sipa> SerajewelKS: it does
2293 2011-05-25 13:41:24 <doublec> SerajewelKS: you can use your own build
2294 2011-05-25 13:41:35 <sipa> it's just a combination of an empty block chain, nolisten, noirc and connect flags
2295 2011-05-25 13:41:36 <UukGoblin> Sage, untouched from stock 1250. I haven't edited the BIOS yet.
2296 2011-05-25 13:41:40 krekbwoy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2297 2011-05-25 13:41:58 <Sage> UukGoblin someone here suggested msi afterburner to me, its amazing...
2298 2011-05-25 13:42:09 <Sage> UukGoblin mine are on 407, stable and hashing like crazy
2299 2011-05-25 13:42:25 <UukGoblin> cool well I'm not that extreme I guess ;-]
2300 2011-05-25 13:42:35 <ArtForz> each blade has 4 tesla 2090s, which are downclocked GTX580s
2301 2011-05-25 13:42:43 <Sage> UukGoblin http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=4292.0
2302 2011-05-25 13:42:53 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2303 2011-05-25 13:43:04 <SerajewelKS> sipa: so why can't i just use those same flags on my own build?
2304 2011-05-25 13:43:15 <ArtForz> = about 400Mhps per blade
2305 2011-05-25 13:43:27 <Sage> UukGoblin it helps with cooling a bit
2306 2011-05-25 13:43:32 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, so... slow as fuck
2307 2011-05-25 13:43:54 <ArtForz> yep
2308 2011-05-25 13:44:01 <UukGoblin> Sage, lol, lower memory clocks increase MHash?
2309 2011-05-25 13:44:08 <UukGoblin> wth? ;-]
2310 2011-05-25 13:44:17 <Sage> UukGoblin im not really sure, i was playing with everything at once
2311 2011-05-25 13:44:17 <ArtForz> nvidias simply arent good at integer
2312 2011-05-25 13:44:34 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, might increase the voltage to the actual processing part of the gpu
2313 2011-05-25 13:44:39 <sipa> SerajewelKS: you can
2314 2011-05-25 13:44:40 <Sage> UukGoblin i changed my flags and mem clocks
2315 2011-05-25 13:44:48 <UukGoblin> Sage, I've ordered 4x 6990 recently for 1450 GBP so I'll play with them some more I guess
2316 2011-05-25 13:44:56 <sipa> SerajewelKS: testnet in a box is just a few config files and an empty block chain db
2317 2011-05-25 13:45:08 <Sage> UukGoblin rofl, do you wanna put them on one board? :D
2318 2011-05-25 13:45:15 <UukGoblin> Sage, nah, 2 or 3
2319 2011-05-25 13:45:17 <DiabloD3> 2
2320 2011-05-25 13:45:20 <DiabloD3> 2 boards
2321 2011-05-25 13:45:23 <DiabloD3> 2 on 2
2322 2011-05-25 13:45:25 <DiabloD3> no more.
2323 2011-05-25 13:45:31 <UukGoblin> DiabloD3, what? why? ;-]
2324 2011-05-25 13:45:33 <DiabloD3> 6990 draw over 75w on the slot
2325 2011-05-25 13:45:37 <DiabloD3> atx plug provides 150
2326 2011-05-25 13:45:40 <DiabloD3> ergo, 2 per mobo
2327 2011-05-25 13:45:40 <UukGoblin> DiabloD3, yeah but I have modded risers
2328 2011-05-25 13:45:42 <DiabloD3> oh
2329 2011-05-25 13:45:44 <DiabloD3> thats okay then
2330 2011-05-25 13:45:47 <DiabloD3> do 3 triple spaced
2331 2011-05-25 13:45:49 <Sage> i wont have money till august -.-
2332 2011-05-25 13:46:10 <Sage> then i should get 2k+â¬, but dunno wheter it will be still profitable to mine
2333 2011-05-25 13:46:57 <DiabloD3> welp
2334 2011-05-25 13:47:00 <DiabloD3> we'll know then wont we
2335 2011-05-25 13:47:10 <Sage> how far are we from difficulty change?
2336 2011-05-25 13:47:16 <UukGoblin> ;;bc,stats
2337 2011-05-25 13:47:18 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126630 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 377 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 7 hours, 56 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 417974.48901381
2338 2011-05-25 13:47:18 <phantomcircuit> DiabloD3, depends entirely on the price/btc
2339 2011-05-25 13:47:19 <DiabloD3> like 500 blocks
2340 2011-05-25 13:47:26 <DiabloD3> phantomcircuit: dont tell me, tell sage
2341 2011-05-25 13:47:29 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,gen 300000
2342 2011-05-25 13:47:29 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 1.23596770264 BTC per day and 0.0514986542766 BTC per hour.
2343 2011-05-25 13:47:54 <phantomcircuit> ~0.4 USD/hour
2344 2011-05-25 13:48:01 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2345 2011-05-25 13:48:09 <phantomcircuit> so it's still profitable as long as you can get the hardware for free
2346 2011-05-25 13:48:10 <phantomcircuit> lol
2347 2011-05-25 13:48:22 <DiabloD3> ;;bc,gen 300000 417974.48901381
2348 2011-05-25 13:48:22 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
2349 2011-05-25 13:48:24 <erbs> its a wonderful sunny day
2350 2011-05-25 13:48:25 erik__ has joined
2351 2011-05-25 13:48:26 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
2352 2011-05-25 13:48:27 <DiabloD3> ;;bc,gend 300000 417974.48901381
2353 2011-05-25 13:48:27 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 417974.48901381, is 0.721930457735 BTC per day and 0.030080435739 BTC per hour.
2354 2011-05-25 13:48:28 erik__ is now known as krekbwoy
2355 2011-05-25 13:48:31 <DiabloD3> not so bad at all
2356 2011-05-25 13:48:45 <phantomcircuit> DiabloD3, lol
2357 2011-05-25 13:49:01 <phantomcircuit> the ddificulty is growing exponentially
2358 2011-05-25 13:49:03 <phantomcircuit> rofl
2359 2011-05-25 13:49:08 <phantomcircuit> oh snap it's 3:42
2360 2011-05-25 13:49:11 <UukGoblin> price is too though ;-]
2361 2011-05-25 13:49:19 <DiabloD3> phantomcircuit: dude
2362 2011-05-25 13:49:25 <DiabloD3> 1.23/day to 0.72 a day
2363 2011-05-25 13:49:32 <DiabloD3> my 5850 will still pay itself off
2364 2011-05-25 13:49:38 <paulo_> is 47pflops of bitcoin enough for 1024bit RSA?
2365 2011-05-25 13:49:44 <paulo_> just curious
2366 2011-05-25 13:49:53 <sipa> flops are meaningless for us
2367 2011-05-25 13:49:53 <phantomcircuit> DiabloD3, 0.72 USD/day for $500 in computers?
2368 2011-05-25 13:49:57 <sipa> we need integer operations
2369 2011-05-25 13:50:05 <phantomcircuit> that's like fucking over a year
2370 2011-05-25 13:50:15 <phantomcircuit> and that's assuming the difficulty doesn't grow
2371 2011-05-25 13:50:19 <DiabloD3> phantomcircuit: no dude
2372 2011-05-25 13:50:22 <DiabloD3> 300 mhash
2373 2011-05-25 13:50:25 <DiabloD3> my glorious 5850
2374 2011-05-25 13:50:29 <phantomcircuit> yes
2375 2011-05-25 13:50:41 <DiabloD3> my glorious $150 5850
2376 2011-05-25 13:50:48 <phantomcircuit> cpu/mobo/psu/hdd/memory
2377 2011-05-25 13:50:56 <phantomcircuit> add it all up
2378 2011-05-25 13:50:57 <UukGoblin> hdd?
2379 2011-05-25 13:51:01 <UukGoblin> what hdd? ;-]
2380 2011-05-25 13:51:07 <phantomcircuit> ok fine no hdd
2381 2011-05-25 13:51:10 <DiabloD3> usb stick or tiny ssd dude
2382 2011-05-25 13:51:18 <UukGoblin> cpu ~$40, mobo $50, mem $20 I guess
2383 2011-05-25 13:51:23 <DiabloD3> and btw, phantomcircuit
2384 2011-05-25 13:51:26 Sage has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2385 2011-05-25 13:51:27 <DiabloD3> my boxes
2386 2011-05-25 13:51:28 <UukGoblin> netboot ftw!
2387 2011-05-25 13:51:34 <DiabloD3> are $700 WITHOUT cards
2388 2011-05-25 13:51:47 <phantomcircuit> DiabloD3, yeah i figured something like that
2389 2011-05-25 13:51:52 <DiabloD3> and do like 1.2ghash
2390 2011-05-25 13:52:00 <phantomcircuit> per box?
2391 2011-05-25 13:52:14 <DiabloD3> ;;bc,gend 1200000 [bc,estimate]
2392 2011-05-25 13:52:14 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1200000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 417974.48901381, is 2.88772183094 BTC per day and 0.120321742956 BTC per hour.
2393 2011-05-25 13:52:16 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2394 2011-05-25 13:52:20 <DiabloD3> er
2395 2011-05-25 13:52:23 <DiabloD3> ;;bc,gend 12000000 [bc,estimate]
2396 2011-05-25 13:52:24 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 12000000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 417974.48901381, is 28.8772183094 BTC per day and 1.20321742956 BTC per hour.
2397 2011-05-25 13:52:29 <DiabloD3> wait thats not right either
2398 2011-05-25 13:52:38 <DiabloD3> ;;bc,gend 1200000 [bc,estimate]
2399 2011-05-25 13:52:39 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1200000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 417974.48901381, is 2.88772183094 BTC per day and 0.120321742956 BTC per hour.
2400 2011-05-25 13:52:44 <DiabloD3> yes
2401 2011-05-25 13:52:46 <sipa> paulo_: as a very very rough approximation, the current network is +- equal to 7.2*10^12 sha256 blocks per second - assuming one 'rsa attempt' takes the same time as a sha256, it'd take 5300 years to crack an rsa1024 key
2402 2011-05-25 13:52:48 <DiabloD3> 2.8 per day
2403 2011-05-25 13:52:59 <DiabloD3> ;;bc,mtgox
2404 2011-05-25 13:52:59 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.51,"low":7,"vol":33082,"buy":7.3132,"sell":7.32,"last":7.3132}}
2405 2011-05-25 13:53:03 marlowe has joined
2406 2011-05-25 13:53:05 <DiabloD3> which is approximately 7.3
2407 2011-05-25 13:53:11 <DiabloD3> ;;bc,calc 7.3*2.8
2408 2011-05-25 13:53:12 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 7.3*2.8 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 1626 years, 37 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, 37 minutes, and 13 seconds
2409 2011-05-25 13:53:14 <DiabloD3> errr
2410 2011-05-25 13:53:17 <DiabloD3> ;;bc,math 7.3*2.8
2411 2011-05-25 13:53:17 <gribble> Error: "bc,math" is not a valid command.
2412 2011-05-25 13:53:23 <DiabloD3> goddamnit gribble you suck
2413 2011-05-25 13:53:32 <phantomcircuit> lol
2414 2011-05-25 13:53:35 <DiabloD3> 20.44
2415 2011-05-25 13:53:40 <phantomcircuit> so
2416 2011-05-25 13:53:42 <SerajewelKS> ;;calc 7.3*2.8
2417 2011-05-25 13:53:42 <gribble> 7.3 * 2.8 = 20.44
2418 2011-05-25 13:53:44 <DiabloD3> so $20 a day at pre-jump prices
2419 2011-05-25 13:53:49 <phantomcircuit> per box 20USD/day
2420 2011-05-25 13:53:58 <phantomcircuit> each box is 700+300*3?
2421 2011-05-25 13:55:07 <DiabloD3> no
2422 2011-05-25 13:55:09 <DiabloD3> 350*4
2423 2011-05-25 13:55:21 <DiabloD3> ;;calc 700+350*4
2424 2011-05-25 13:55:22 <gribble> 700 + (350 * 4) = 2,100
2425 2011-05-25 13:55:29 <DiabloD3> ;;calc 2100/20.44
2426 2011-05-25 13:55:29 <gribble> 2100 / 20.44 = 102.739726
2427 2011-05-25 13:55:32 <DiabloD3> ;;calc 2100/20.44/3
2428 2011-05-25 13:55:32 <gribble> (2100 / 20.44) / 3 = 34.2465753
2429 2011-05-25 13:55:35 <phantomcircuit> DiabloD3, that's not bad
2430 2011-05-25 13:55:42 <phantomcircuit> but still is 3 months
2431 2011-05-25 13:55:47 <DiabloD3> er wtf 34?
2432 2011-05-25 13:55:53 <phantomcircuit> assuming difficulty doesn't continue to grow exponentially
2433 2011-05-25 13:56:01 <DiabloD3> oh wait
2434 2011-05-25 13:56:02 <phantomcircuit> DiabloD3, you divided by 3
2435 2011-05-25 13:56:04 <phantomcircuit> lol
2436 2011-05-25 13:56:06 <DiabloD3> ;;calc 2100/20.44/30
2437 2011-05-25 13:56:06 <gribble> (2100 / 20.44) / 30 = 3.42465753
2438 2011-05-25 13:56:13 molecular has joined
2439 2011-05-25 13:56:18 <DiabloD3> sorry, caffiene hasnt kicked in and I was doing work on diablominer
2440 2011-05-25 13:56:29 <phantomcircuit> DiabloD3, now re run the calculation assuming the difficulty continues to grow at it's present rate
2441 2011-05-25 13:56:33 <DiabloD3> so 3 and a half months at CURRENT prices
2442 2011-05-25 13:56:37 <DiabloD3> which we know will go up
2443 2011-05-25 13:56:43 <phantomcircuit> and i think you'll find that it doesn't pay off without massive increases in usd/btc
2444 2011-05-25 13:56:53 <DiabloD3> so lets just fudge it and say 3 and a half months.
2445 2011-05-25 13:57:06 <DiabloD3> since we cant predict future btc prices
2446 2011-05-25 13:57:10 <DiabloD3> and its most likely going to be above this.
2447 2011-05-25 13:57:46 marlowe has quit (Client Quit)
2448 2011-05-25 13:58:05 <DiabloD3> phantomcircuit: I mean hell
2449 2011-05-25 13:58:07 <DiabloD3> lets say
2450 2011-05-25 13:58:12 <DiabloD3> 3.5 to 7 months
2451 2011-05-25 13:58:15 <DiabloD3> somewhere in that range
2452 2011-05-25 13:58:22 <DiabloD3> thats not bad for an investment
2453 2011-05-25 13:58:44 <DiabloD3> and lets throw power prices in there
2454 2011-05-25 13:58:46 <DiabloD3> so 4 to 8
2455 2011-05-25 13:59:15 <phantomcircuit> sure
2456 2011-05-25 13:59:21 marlowe has joined
2457 2011-05-25 13:59:27 <krekbwoy> hm, someone should set up some sort of cloud computing service for this
2458 2011-05-25 13:59:34 <krekbwoy> which can be paid for by bitcoins
2459 2011-05-25 13:59:35 <phantomcircuit> but that's only if you have the capital for a 2.1k box and can keep it running 24/7/365
2460 2011-05-25 13:59:44 <phantomcircuit> DiabloD3, which is in and of itself a challenge
2461 2011-05-25 14:00:01 <SerajewelKS> O_o
2462 2011-05-25 14:00:11 <SerajewelKS> Warning: To use bitcoind, you must set rpcpassword=<password> in the configuration file: /home/chris/src/bitcoin/test/1/testnet/bitcoin.conf
2463 2011-05-25 14:00:27 <SerajewelKS> $ cat /home/chris/src/bitcoin/test/1/testnet/bitcoin.conf --> rpcuser=chris rpcpassword=helloworld
2464 2011-05-25 14:00:33 <SerajewelKS> please tell me i'm missing something obvious
2465 2011-05-25 14:00:36 <phantomcircuit> SerajewelKS, different lines
2466 2011-05-25 14:00:40 <DiabloD3> diff.. yeah
2467 2011-05-25 14:00:42 <SerajewelKS> phantomcircuit: they are
2468 2011-05-25 14:00:45 App3l has joined
2469 2011-05-25 14:00:48 <phantomcircuit> SerajewelKS, wait wrong directory
2470 2011-05-25 14:00:58 <phantomcircuit> SerajewelKS, bitcoin.conf goes in ~/.bitcoin
2471 2011-05-25 14:01:05 <SerajewelKS> facepalm
2472 2011-05-25 14:01:06 <DiabloD3> yeah, the things on crack
2473 2011-05-25 14:01:11 <DiabloD3> it doesnt go in datadir
2474 2011-05-25 14:01:15 <DiabloD3> it goes where it normally goes
2475 2011-05-25 14:01:17 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2476 2011-05-25 14:01:27 <DiabloD3> other datadirs still drag in the original bitcoin.conf
2477 2011-05-25 14:01:33 <SerajewelKS> if it does then i'd call that a bug
2478 2011-05-25 14:01:43 <DiabloD3> yup.
2479 2011-05-25 14:01:54 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2480 2011-05-25 14:02:03 <doublec> SerajewelKS: there's a seperate -conf setting for the configuration file
2481 2011-05-25 14:02:30 <doublec> bitcoind -conf=...
2482 2011-05-25 14:02:32 <SerajewelKS> fuck it, it'll be easier to specify the password on the command line
2483 2011-05-25 14:02:40 <DiabloD3> hah
2484 2011-05-25 14:03:10 <doublec> someone will view your shell history, hack your testnet and steal all your test coins
2485 2011-05-25 14:03:23 <SerajewelKS> "address already in use"
2486 2011-05-25 14:03:30 <SerajewelKS> oh, rpcport
2487 2011-05-25 14:03:31 d1g1t4l has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2488 2011-05-25 14:03:31 <SerajewelKS> sigh
2489 2011-05-25 14:03:34 <phantomcircuit> lol
2490 2011-05-25 14:04:46 stahi has joined
2491 2011-05-25 14:05:47 paulo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2492 2011-05-25 14:06:24 <DiabloD3> SerajewelKS: heh
2493 2011-05-25 14:06:35 <SerajewelKS> hmm, someone still knows about my node
2494 2011-05-25 14:07:05 <SerajewelKS> haven't been on testnet in a week and someone connects to me. weird.
2495 2011-05-25 14:08:02 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2496 2011-05-25 14:08:47 * ersi laughs like a villain and runs off
2497 2011-05-25 14:08:56 * SerajewelKS shakes fist
2498 2011-05-25 14:08:59 <SerajewelKS> KHAAAAAAAAAN
2499 2011-05-25 14:09:31 pyros1 has joined
2500 2011-05-25 14:10:00 <DiabloD3> phantomcircuit: oh and btw
2501 2011-05-25 14:10:04 <DiabloD3> you forgot the OTHER thing
2502 2011-05-25 14:10:16 <DiabloD3> sure, we know diff goes up and price goes up...
2503 2011-05-25 14:10:27 <SerajewelKS> yikes, 642khash isn't even enough for difficulty 1 :(
2504 2011-05-25 14:10:42 <DiabloD3> you forgot panicing idiots who bought hardware and didnt realize how long 9 months is
2505 2011-05-25 14:10:55 <DiabloD3> so they'll be selling their shit on ebay
2506 2011-05-25 14:10:56 <UukGoblin> SerajewelKS, you're forgetting that testnet difficulty 1 actually means difficulty 0.5 ;-]
2507 2011-05-25 14:10:57 <DiabloD3> and leaving forever
2508 2011-05-25 14:11:48 <phantomcircuit> DiabloD3, yes and ill be buying it since i need a new graphics card for playing counter strike on my new monitor
2509 2011-05-25 14:11:52 <SerajewelKS> UukGoblin: that's still an hour per block
2510 2011-05-25 14:11:56 <phantomcircuit> which i cant even use because im traveling
2511 2011-05-25 14:12:02 <DiabloD3> bwhaha
2512 2011-05-25 14:12:04 <DiabloD3> man
2513 2011-05-25 14:12:05 <phantomcircuit> also lol that the intel embdeded gpu cant handle it
2514 2011-05-25 14:12:11 <DiabloD3> I should make two new bitcoin networks
2515 2011-05-25 14:12:15 <DiabloD3> fastbitcoin and slowbitcoin
2516 2011-05-25 14:12:41 <DiabloD3> fastbitcoin does blocks 10 times faster, and has a diff ten times slower on top of that
2517 2011-05-25 14:13:13 <DiabloD3> and slowbitcoin that does blocks 10 times slower, and has a diff ten times higher
2518 2011-05-25 14:13:21 <UukGoblin> speaking of which... how much is a namecoin these days? ;-]
2519 2011-05-25 14:14:08 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, easily hacked?
2520 2011-05-25 14:14:11 <phantomcircuit> so who cares?
2521 2011-05-25 14:15:08 <DiabloD3> so fast and slowcoins
2522 2011-05-25 14:15:14 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, hahah, what happened? (I'm not following the news much)
2523 2011-05-25 14:15:19 <SerajewelKS> yeah, one block per 12 seconds
2524 2011-05-25 14:15:21 <SerajewelKS> now we're cookin
2525 2011-05-25 14:15:24 <DiabloD3> lololol
2526 2011-05-25 14:15:24 <doublec> UukGoblin: about 5btc per 1000
2527 2011-05-25 14:15:27 <DiabloD3> well people would run it
2528 2011-05-25 14:16:10 <UukGoblin> doublec, and the difficulty on namecoin chain?
2529 2011-05-25 14:16:33 <doublec> UukGoblin: 1264.49395237
2530 2011-05-25 14:17:22 <doublec> which makes it about $1.50 USD for a domain name
2531 2011-05-25 14:17:41 <UukGoblin> doublec, so someone /is/ using it
2532 2011-05-25 14:17:49 <doublec> UukGoblin: yes
2533 2011-05-25 14:17:56 <UukGoblin> and the price seems to reflect the difficulty difference
2534 2011-05-25 14:17:57 <doublec> UukGoblin: it even has a pool!
2535 2011-05-25 14:18:01 <UukGoblin> wow ;-]
2536 2011-05-25 14:18:14 <doublec> UukGoblin: that's because I used the difficulty to compute the price :)
2537 2011-05-25 14:18:34 <UukGoblin> ah ;-]
2538 2011-05-25 14:18:36 <doublec> UukGoblin: they've atually sold for 2 btc -> 7.5 btc per thousand depending on who you buy from
2539 2011-05-25 14:18:55 glassresistor has joined
2540 2011-05-25 14:19:05 <UukGoblin> doublec, I can't keep thinking it's all wrong, but I will mine them if someone writes a work-sharing miner
2541 2011-05-25 14:19:19 <doublec> UukGoblin: what's a work sharing miner?
2542 2011-05-25 14:19:29 <UukGoblin> doublec, one that mines for both chains at the same time
2543 2011-05-25 14:19:38 <doublec> UukGoblin: ah right. Easy to do.
2544 2011-05-25 14:19:45 <SerajewelKS> UukGoblin: you could modify my proxy to do that
2545 2011-05-25 14:19:50 <doublec> I can modify my pool software to do it
2546 2011-05-25 14:19:55 <SerajewelKS> UukGoblin: then use whatever miner software you want
2547 2011-05-25 14:20:03 <UukGoblin> interesting
2548 2011-05-25 14:20:04 <doublec> or do what SerajewelKS said
2549 2011-05-25 14:20:48 <doublec> technically it's not mining both chains at the same time
2550 2011-05-25 14:20:55 <doublec> it's splitting the time between them
2551 2011-05-25 14:21:09 <UukGoblin> oh, that's not what I want I guess...
2552 2011-05-25 14:23:31 <doublec> names currently cost 31 namecoins. They'll hit zero before long.
2553 2011-05-25 14:24:15 pnicholson has joined
2554 2011-05-25 14:24:21 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, so what do you mean by 'easily hacked'?
2555 2011-05-25 14:24:23 skeledrew1 has joined
2556 2011-05-25 14:24:50 <doublec> presumably because of the low difficulty someone with lots of power could come along and clean up
2557 2011-05-25 14:25:19 <doublec> I had someone contribute to the namecoin pool giving 11Ghash/s and it was solving every 2nd block or so
2558 2011-05-25 14:25:32 <doublec> to test the pool
2559 2011-05-25 14:25:34 <UukGoblin> I'd have to read up on this work-sharing, but basically I recall some post by satoshi that says you can use the same CPU power to mine for both chains simultaneously
2560 2011-05-25 14:25:43 <UukGoblin> (I still think a separate chain is totally unnecessary)
2561 2011-05-25 14:26:00 <doublec> UukGoblin: Mike Hearn also posted about it http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=7219.0
2562 2011-05-25 14:26:29 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2563 2011-05-25 14:26:32 <UukGoblin> doublec, yup
2564 2011-05-25 14:27:40 <jaromil> FYI tonight i'll be giving a lecture here http://www.tudelft.nl/live/pagina.jsp?id=e4678a1c-3f35-46b1-ad84-b388fbe1887c&lang=nl
2565 2011-05-25 14:27:58 <jaromil> i'll also mention bitcoin a bit.... all doe it focuses on the broader theme of software architecture
2566 2011-05-25 14:28:15 <jaromil> and... social design. in short. eheh.
2567 2011-05-25 14:28:37 * doublec buys some coins for the hopeful rush of new people
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2577 2011-05-25 14:39:31 Aexoden has quit (Quit: Goodbye, cruel world!)
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2579 2011-05-25 14:43:13 <lfm> jaromil: lang=nl? not english then?
2580 2011-05-25 14:44:01 <jaromil> lfm: usually native speakers don't want to listen to my dutch for more than 1 minute
2581 2011-05-25 14:44:45 <jaromil> so no, will be in english
2582 2011-05-25 14:44:57 <lfm> oh ok, tyhanks
2583 2011-05-25 14:45:05 <jaromil> well i can last 10 minutes with drunken dutch people
2584 2011-05-25 14:45:31 Aexoden has joined
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2592 2011-05-25 14:52:06 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, there isn't enough mining power on namecoin to make it secure, any of the miners could turn their attention to it for all of a few days and easily forge a block or five
2593 2011-05-25 14:53:27 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, yeah, that's one of the reasons I think separate chains are pointless
2594 2011-05-25 14:53:53 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, they could just attach their data into the merkle root and get their stuff pruned by the bitcoin network, but held by dns nodes
2595 2011-05-25 14:54:12 <UukGoblin> s/merkle root/merkle leaf/
2596 2011-05-25 14:54:18 <phantomcircuit> hmm
2597 2011-05-25 14:54:27 <phantomcircuit> no i dont think so
2598 2011-05-25 14:54:39 <phantomcircuit> that would require a modification of every single bitcoin client simultaneously
2599 2011-05-25 14:55:00 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, although they could embed the data into transactions which move btc around
2600 2011-05-25 14:55:45 oneman has joined
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2610 2011-05-25 15:00:59 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: pong
2611 2011-05-25 15:02:07 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: just wanted to send off rc4, but I emailed it instead
2612 2011-05-25 15:04:06 BCBot has joined
2613 2011-05-25 15:04:17 Laird_Dave has joined
2614 2011-05-25 15:04:30 <Laird_Dave> hi @all
2615 2011-05-25 15:04:39 <BlueMatt> hello
2616 2011-05-25 15:05:03 <Laird_Dave> i just heard in #bitcoin that it would be a clever move to join here if i want to contribute
2617 2011-05-25 15:05:18 <BlueMatt> yep
2618 2011-05-25 15:05:21 <Laird_Dave> cool :)
2619 2011-05-25 15:05:36 AnatolV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2620 2011-05-25 15:06:00 <Laird_Dave> the thing is i would like to translate the gui-stuff (and maybe more?) into german for my fellows over here
2621 2011-05-25 15:06:23 <Laird_Dave> but i have never before contributed to any software project
2622 2011-05-25 15:06:28 <BlueMatt> we already have a solid german translation
2623 2011-05-25 15:06:38 <Laird_Dave> yeah?
2624 2011-05-25 15:06:47 <Laird_Dave> so i'm just too stupid to find it :D
2625 2011-05-25 15:06:54 <BlueMatt> it should popup in german if that is your default language
2626 2011-05-25 15:07:05 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
2627 2011-05-25 15:07:17 <BlueMatt> though you need to be cd'd to the toplevel where there is a locale folder...
2628 2011-05-25 15:07:21 <Laird_Dave> well i'm running the software right now and it is more of a mix
2629 2011-05-25 15:07:27 <BlueMatt> so probably cant just double-click and run to get that...
2630 2011-05-25 15:07:34 <BlueMatt> oh, well yea...try 0.3.22rc
2631 2011-05-25 15:07:41 <Laird_Dave> okay
2632 2011-05-25 15:07:43 <Laird_Dave> thanks
2633 2011-05-25 15:07:46 <BlueMatt> a bunch of translations have been updated, as they were all out of date
2634 2011-05-25 15:07:49 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2635 2011-05-25 15:07:54 <Laird_Dave> i'll be back if i have any more issues :)
2636 2011-05-25 15:07:54 <BlueMatt> though some are still in the kinds in between state
2637 2011-05-25 15:07:58 <Laird_Dave> thanks for your time!
2638 2011-05-25 15:08:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: is there a 0.3.22rc release?
2639 2011-05-25 15:08:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: yea, look for jgarzik 's thread
2640 2011-05-25 15:11:42 <luke-jr> BlueMatt no luck
2641 2011-05-25 15:11:56 <BlueMatt> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8894.0;all
2642 2011-05-25 15:12:08 <luke-jr> hum, yay for retarded search function
2643 2011-05-25 15:12:25 <sipa> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.22/test/
2644 2011-05-25 15:14:34 DD- has quit ()
2645 2011-05-25 15:16:46 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, search on forums is always broken, when you think about what's required to make it work it's not too surprising
2646 2011-05-25 15:17:21 <BlueMatt> google: site:forum.bitcoin.org ... ;)
2647 2011-05-25 15:17:28 ezl has joined
2648 2011-05-25 15:19:49 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, yeah most high volume forums give up and just incorporate google search into their site
2649 2011-05-25 15:19:51 ahbritto_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2650 2011-05-25 15:19:55 <phantomcircuit> it even generates revenues
2651 2011-05-25 15:19:56 <phantomcircuit> :P
2652 2011-05-25 15:19:57 ahbritto has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2653 2011-05-25 15:20:58 <erbs> more coins good!
2654 2011-05-25 15:21:13 eao has joined
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2658 2011-05-25 15:28:56 <Sage> my net fell :(
2659 2011-05-25 15:30:02 Speeder has joined
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2666 2011-05-25 15:34:28 allied has joined
2667 2011-05-25 15:36:22 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r8027bf94e2bb gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/ (Manifest bitcoin-0.3.22_rc4.ebuild): net-p2p/bitcoin-0.3.22_rc4 http://tinyurl.com/3lbnejr
2668 2011-05-25 15:41:28 lx_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2669 2011-05-25 15:41:48 Clipse has quit (Quit: :: Free Online Holdem Bot #holdembot & IRC Holdem #ircholdem :: Free Poker Cash @ http://www.yourpokercash.com/?addby=e49fbc)
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2675 2011-05-25 15:58:46 diki has joined
2676 2011-05-25 15:59:20 <Sage> no talking here?
2677 2011-05-25 15:59:46 <diki> No i guess..
2678 2011-05-25 15:59:47 skeledrew has joined
2679 2011-05-25 15:59:53 * diki is waiting for sipa
2680 2011-05-25 16:00:09 * Sage
2681 2011-05-25 16:00:19 * Sage wonders what is diki doing
2682 2011-05-25 16:01:13 <BlueMatt> no one talks here because there is nothing to say wrt development, this chan actually tends to be mostly on topic, unlike the other bitcoin ones
2683 2011-05-25 16:01:23 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r5a712ce009ba gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/ (8 files): net-p2p/bitcoin: fix locale files http://tinyurl.com/3vcngp8
2684 2011-05-25 16:01:29 * diki wonders how to convert difficulty of his choice to the 64 byte in pushpool
2685 2011-05-25 16:01:39 <diki> in hex etc
2686 2011-05-25 16:01:41 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2687 2011-05-25 16:01:53 <Sage> how about base64? :D
2688 2011-05-25 16:02:13 rs_ has joined
2689 2011-05-25 16:03:02 <diki> I rethought a lot of things and 1000-1500 inserts per second in mysql will result in very bad things with my dedicated ram for the VM
2690 2011-05-25 16:03:10 <datagutt> Is there a norwegian translation for the bitcoin client yet?
2691 2011-05-25 16:03:54 <diki> I did a for loop to simulate 1,000,000 inserts and i couldnt even open phpmyadmin to check the table
2692 2011-05-25 16:03:57 <Sage> diki how much it needs for 1500 inserts?
2693 2011-05-25 16:04:00 <diki> httpd couldnt handle all that
2694 2011-05-25 16:04:20 <diki> and it was only 350k rows there
2695 2011-05-25 16:04:26 <diki> so i couldnt even go to 1 mill
2696 2011-05-25 16:04:42 <diki> ram was exceeded in an instant
2697 2011-05-25 16:04:51 <diki> so was the swap file which i also increased
2698 2011-05-25 16:05:29 <diki> Meaning even a cheap VPS would die...
2699 2011-05-25 16:05:43 <diki> i'd need a minimum of 4GB dedicated just for mysql
2700 2011-05-25 16:05:55 <diki> and a good quad xeon
2701 2011-05-25 16:06:21 devon_hillard has joined
2702 2011-05-25 16:06:23 <Ramen> whats the command to check trade volume for the day?
2703 2011-05-25 16:06:49 <Ramen> ;;help
2704 2011-05-25 16:06:50 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
2705 2011-05-25 16:07:06 <Ramen> !facts
2706 2011-05-25 16:08:06 <Sage> i wanted to start playing with virtualization and servers so i bought amd x6 and 8gigs of ram
2707 2011-05-25 16:08:10 brunner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2708 2011-05-25 16:08:18 <Sage> i havent yet got to actually do anything on it tho
2709 2011-05-25 16:08:25 <diki> an opteron was a good place to start
2710 2011-05-25 16:08:34 <BurtyB> diki, I'm upto 1.6billion rows in mysql.. it loves eating RAM and IO :(
2711 2011-05-25 16:08:46 <diki> Burty?
2712 2011-05-25 16:08:50 <diki> You using pushpool?
2713 2011-05-25 16:08:52 <Sage> burtyb how much does it eat?
2714 2011-05-25 16:09:23 <diki> thank god i foresaw these problems before doing anything
2715 2011-05-25 16:09:29 <diki> need to optimize more
2716 2011-05-25 16:09:29 <BurtyB> diki, nah for one of my sites
2717 2011-05-25 16:09:54 <BurtyB> Sage, 24GB in the box and I'm sure it would be grateful of more
2718 2011-05-25 16:10:12 <diki> Burty, in a pool's case, depending on the users a total of a million rows could be inserted for 11 minuntes
2719 2011-05-25 16:10:19 <diki> the average is 500k
2720 2011-05-25 16:10:29 <diki> so that means 1500-2000 inserts/s
2721 2011-05-25 16:10:51 <Sage> BurtyB so how does the whole server look like?
2722 2011-05-25 16:10:51 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2723 2011-05-25 16:11:01 <lfm> diki and you still planning on doing it in the vm on your laptop?
2724 2011-05-25 16:11:16 <diki> lfm: who said laptop?
2725 2011-05-25 16:11:46 <BurtyB> diki, not too bad on good hardware.. but it's only going to get slower as you add more heh
2726 2011-05-25 16:12:02 <lfm> sorry we assumed from the size of the system it was a laptop. it is desktop?
2727 2011-05-25 16:12:08 <diki> Yes
2728 2011-05-25 16:12:13 fimp has joined
2729 2011-05-25 16:12:28 <Sage> is there any way to open a privat chat in browser client?
2730 2011-05-25 16:12:37 <sipa> /query username
2731 2011-05-25 16:12:37 sabalaba has joined
2732 2011-05-25 16:12:51 <diki> sipa, how do i calculate my own diff and turn it in hex?
2733 2011-05-25 16:12:57 <diki> You did it pretty easiliy
2734 2011-05-25 16:12:59 <lfm> sage you should be able to /msg user message
2735 2011-05-25 16:13:05 <diki> Whatever i tried=failed
2736 2011-05-25 16:13:09 <sipa> keep trying
2737 2011-05-25 16:13:10 <Sage> sipa thx love you
2738 2011-05-25 16:14:55 has joined
2739 2011-05-25 16:15:08 <diki> sipa i tried using countless online hex to dec and vice versa converters
2740 2011-05-25 16:15:15 <diki> none showed 1.9999 at the diff you wrote
2741 2011-05-25 16:15:20 d1g1t4l has joined
2742 2011-05-25 16:15:43 d1g1t4l has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2743 2011-05-25 16:15:48 larsivi has joined
2744 2011-05-25 16:15:53 d1g1t4l has joined
2745 2011-05-25 16:15:59 <lfm> diki it is a custom format invented just for bitcoin afaik. its in the source basiclly
2746 2011-05-25 16:16:11 <diki> i looked at the bitcoin wiki
2747 2011-05-25 16:16:19 d1g1t4l has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2748 2011-05-25 16:16:24 <diki> nothing i found resembled the same thing
2749 2011-05-25 16:16:29 <lfm> may be part of the "bignum" system bitcoin uses
2750 2011-05-25 16:16:37 d1g1t4l has joined
2751 2011-05-25 16:17:06 <sipa> diki: difficulty is just 0x00000000FFFF00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 divided by target
2752 2011-05-25 16:17:12 <lfm> diki the hex is the nBits field of the block header
2753 2011-05-25 16:17:36 <erbs> how can i join #bitcoin-cabal
2754 2011-05-25 16:17:41 <sipa> and nBits is a weird binary encoding of that value
2755 2011-05-25 16:17:43 <erbs> do i need a certain amount of gpus
2756 2011-05-25 16:18:08 <lfm> ok ya, there is two hex forms, one is the 256 bit form sipa showed you another is a 32 bit form
2757 2011-05-25 16:18:25 devrandom has joined
2758 2011-05-25 16:18:48 <sipa> difficulty is a floating point number, target is a 256 bit integer, nBits is a 32 bit integer that encodes the difficulty
2759 2011-05-25 16:18:50 <diki> Why is half of it Fs in pushpool then?
2760 2011-05-25 16:19:14 <lfm> thats for difficulty 1
2761 2011-05-25 16:19:27 <sipa> no, for difficulty .9999847412109375
2762 2011-05-25 16:19:35 <sipa> pools do not use difficulty 1
2763 2011-05-25 16:19:42 <lfm> well some do
2764 2011-05-25 16:19:44 <sipa> yes
2765 2011-05-25 16:19:51 <sipa> but pushpoold doesn't
2766 2011-05-25 16:19:55 <diki> yes it does
2767 2011-05-25 16:20:00 <diki> afaik tho
2768 2011-05-25 16:20:12 <sipa> if it uses target 0x00000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF...
2769 2011-05-25 16:20:18 <sipa> it's not difficulty 1
2770 2011-05-25 16:20:26 <diki> it's actually reversed
2771 2011-05-25 16:20:28 <sipa> because difficulty 1 means target 0x00000000FFFF00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
2772 2011-05-25 16:20:32 <sipa> might be
2773 2011-05-25 16:20:34 <diki> first it's the FFs then the 0000 at the end
2774 2011-05-25 16:20:40 <sipa> i'm using big-endian encoding here
2775 2011-05-25 16:20:48 <sipa> as humans typically use
2776 2011-05-25 16:21:07 <jrmithdobbs> you've lost him
2777 2011-05-25 16:21:26 <lfm> ya bitcoin byteswaps are epic
2778 2011-05-25 16:22:47 <erbs> google is building an underwater data center to mine bitcoins
2779 2011-05-25 16:23:30 <lfm> erbs I spoze there are more bitcoins in the underwater strata
2780 2011-05-25 16:23:31 <diki> If google starts mining, 1 days is enough for all the bitcoins to be mined
2781 2011-05-25 16:23:49 <diki> *day
2782 2011-05-25 16:23:55 <jrmithdobbs> haha no
2783 2011-05-25 16:23:57 <sipa> i doubt that
2784 2011-05-25 16:24:31 <diki> unlike us, they can afford an infinite ammount of FPGAs
2785 2011-05-25 16:24:39 <lfm> diki you underestimate bitcoin. as soon as the difficulty changes after they mine 2016 blocks they will find the rate reduces to one block every 10 minues same as before
2786 2011-05-25 16:24:57 <diki> I said infinite amount of FPGAs, they wont care.
2787 2011-05-25 16:25:04 <diki> All the FPGA is pocket money for them
2788 2011-05-25 16:25:41 <erbs> whats the formula to figure out if the difficulty is changed?
2789 2011-05-25 16:25:43 <lfm> diki ya, and 256 bit dificulty they would have to turn the whole earth into GPUs to get half way there
2790 2011-05-25 16:25:44 <x5x> anyone if mtgox will give jsonp data ?
2791 2011-05-25 16:25:56 <x5x> so you can use their data in cross domain requests
2792 2011-05-25 16:26:04 <lfm> erbs just do ;;bc,stats
2793 2011-05-25 16:26:15 <diki> Lfm, google can do anything...
2794 2011-05-25 16:26:18 <erbs> ;;bc,stats
2795 2011-05-25 16:26:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126655 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 352 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 6 hours, 6 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 417524.51066809
2796 2011-05-25 16:26:22 <erbs> ahh nice
2797 2011-05-25 16:26:40 <diki> I once found out that they were storing all my browsing history when i made an email with gmail
2798 2011-05-25 16:26:53 <diki> and when i say all, i mean a few years's worth
2799 2011-05-25 16:27:01 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2800 2011-05-25 16:27:05 <lfm> diki they store all your gmail forever too
2801 2011-05-25 16:29:43 <erbs> GeeeeMaaaailll
2802 2011-05-25 16:29:45 brunner has joined
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2804 2011-05-25 16:30:11 _Netsniper_ has joined
2805 2011-05-25 16:31:20 has quit (Netsniper|!~kvirc@76.252.0.67|Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2806 2011-05-25 16:31:25 <neoeinstein_> ;;calc [bc,estimate]/[bc,diff]
2807 2011-05-25 16:31:26 <gribble> 417,524.51066809 / 244,139.48158254 = 1.71018841
2808 2011-05-25 16:31:39 <neoeinstein_> Yum. 71% estimated difficulty jump
2809 2011-05-25 16:32:16 <lfm> wtg
2810 2011-05-25 16:32:34 <Sage> i was expecting 100% tbh
2811 2011-05-25 16:33:18 <lfm> did you guys see the /. story about bitcoin miners getting visits from police on suspician that their power use was for grow ops?
2812 2011-05-25 16:33:39 <Sage> yesterday someone posted a link
2813 2011-05-25 16:33:44 <Sage> didnt see it though
2814 2011-05-25 16:34:40 <lfm> I figure they should just mine bitcoins till the police have come around and seen the computers they switch over to pot grow ops
2815 2011-05-25 16:34:57 <jgarzik> sipa: there is some TX fee problem/bug?
2816 2011-05-25 16:35:07 <Sage> lfm rofl
2817 2011-05-25 16:35:14 <sipa> jgarzik: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/263
2818 2011-05-25 16:35:37 <lfm> jgarzik: eh?
2819 2011-05-25 16:35:48 <diki> lfm link
2820 2011-05-25 16:36:49 <jgarzik> sipa: yeah the change ssue is annoying, but something does want fixing
2821 2011-05-25 16:36:59 <lfm> diki http://blogs.computerworld.com/18335/bitcoin_miners_busted_police_confuse_bitcoin_power_usage_for_pot_farm
2822 2011-05-25 16:37:09 <sipa> "something does want fixing" ?
2823 2011-05-25 16:37:25 <jgarzik> sipa: that CreateTransaction logic isn't directly fee related, but the client does need updating to handle sub-0.01 change, which it previously dropped on the floor to reduce spam
2824 2011-05-25 16:37:55 <jgarzik> sipa: and with tiny change transactions, I wonder if that, then, requires lowering the 0.01 txout val limit
2825 2011-05-25 16:38:17 <lfm> jgarzik: are you concerned cuz of Block #124724 ? how it doesnt balance?
2826 2011-05-25 16:38:17 ahbritto_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2827 2011-05-25 16:38:56 <sipa> jgarzik: there are three cases
2828 2011-05-25 16:39:01 <diki> lfm that is just some rephrased text
2829 2011-05-25 16:39:01 <sipa> instead of two, now
2830 2011-05-25 16:39:07 <diki> i want the actualy news of the person being raded
2831 2011-05-25 16:39:28 <lfm> diki I dunno where that would be
2832 2011-05-25 16:40:03 <sipa> either you can do it with only >0.01 residu, and just create change, or you have a residue between 0.01 and 0.0005 (and you'll create a change of residue-0.0005), or the residue is less than 0.0005 and it becomes fee entirely
2833 2011-05-25 16:40:22 <sipa> currently, only the first and the third case exist
2834 2011-05-25 16:41:11 <jgarzik> sipa: to avoid insanity of tons of tiny, very-spent coins, currently the code just throws away tiny change
2835 2011-05-25 16:41:21 <jgarzik> *never-spent
2836 2011-05-25 16:41:33 <sipa> yes, but change between 0.01 and 0.0005 becomes meaningful now
2837 2011-05-25 16:41:37 <sipa> as it is spendable
2838 2011-05-25 16:41:42 BurningToad1 has joined
2839 2011-05-25 16:41:45 <lfm> ya that goes into the fee then actually
2840 2011-05-25 16:42:01 <jgarzik> sipa: agree
2841 2011-05-25 16:42:09 <jgarzik> lfm: yep
2842 2011-05-25 16:42:10 <sipa> also, if you already pay a fee (because of other reason), the logic in CreateTransaction can always do everything in change
2843 2011-05-25 16:42:16 <sipa> instead of adding another fee on top
2844 2011-05-25 16:42:29 <sipa> i'll have a patch in a minute
2845 2011-05-25 16:42:41 <diki> how soon before .22?
2846 2011-05-25 16:42:44 <jgarzik> sipa: great, thanks. I'll look at it post-lunch.
2847 2011-05-25 16:43:10 <kensai> hello
2848 2011-05-25 16:43:20 <kensai> I hope this is the right place to ask
2849 2011-05-25 16:43:32 <diki> ask
2850 2011-05-25 16:43:47 <lfm> people have been patching that code trying to get it right for ages. It seems there is a conflict between the people who want to do micro txns and the people who want to discourage the bitcoin dust/spam.
2851 2011-05-25 16:44:00 <kensai> is it of any good mining with the default settings in a weak PC (laptop, no fancy GPU)? the FAQ says it's useless anymore...
2852 2011-05-25 16:44:08 <kensai> was wondering if there are settings I can tweak
2853 2011-05-25 16:44:11 <jgarzik> lfm: yep
2854 2011-05-25 16:44:19 <diki> kensai, if it's the cpu, then now
2855 2011-05-25 16:44:21 <diki> *no
2856 2011-05-25 16:44:29 <diki> if it's a low-end gpu again, no
2857 2011-05-25 16:44:47 <diki> and mobility gpus dont have opencl support
2858 2011-05-25 16:44:56 <lfm> kensai: not really much point. you could look at it as a lottery where the power company gets you ticket price and it only pays out maybe once in 10 years
2859 2011-05-25 16:45:06 <kensai> understood, I asked here in the dev just to be sure there are no any treaks with custom settings
2860 2011-05-25 16:45:15 <kensai> thank you both/all
2861 2011-05-25 16:45:36 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2862 2011-05-25 16:45:45 <kensai> indeed I left it crunching a couple of days, hoping to wake up rich (lol) but to no avail
2863 2011-05-25 16:46:02 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2864 2011-05-25 16:46:03 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.51,"low":7,"vol":33451,"buy":7.26,"sell":7.272,"last":7.26}}
2865 2011-05-25 16:46:23 <lfm> kensai: ya, a winning block is maybe worth about $300 US
2866 2011-05-25 16:48:21 <diki> I have this hunch that changing the diff after every getwork per worker may yield more blocks
2867 2011-05-25 16:48:25 <diki> the luck increases me thinks
2868 2011-05-25 16:49:23 Malldar has joined
2869 2011-05-25 16:49:53 <Sage> kensai: around $375
2870 2011-05-25 16:50:04 <sipa> ArtForz: can you have a look at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/264/files ?
2871 2011-05-25 16:50:27 <diki> whaat?
2872 2011-05-25 16:50:29 <diki> what is vout?
2873 2011-05-25 16:50:32 <lfm> diki that would greatly compilate the patout calculation
2874 2011-05-25 16:50:32 <diki> never heard of it
2875 2011-05-25 16:51:06 vorlov has joined
2876 2011-05-25 16:53:13 <diki> I was lazy opening config.c but here is the hex lol ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff00000000
2877 2011-05-25 16:53:30 <diki> If that is diff 1...
2878 2011-05-25 16:53:52 <mtrlt> that's diff 65535/65536
2879 2011-05-25 16:53:58 <mtrlt> but is used by most pools
2880 2011-05-25 16:54:07 <neoeinstein_> in little-endian, that is diff .9999847412109375
2881 2011-05-25 16:54:41 <diki> if diff 2 is fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff700000000 then diff three is ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff1400000000
2882 2011-05-25 16:54:42 dekbit has joined
2883 2011-05-25 16:54:49 <lfm> also called h==0
2884 2011-05-25 16:54:50 <diki> going by logic that is..
2885 2011-05-25 16:55:05 <mtrlt> diki: the one you pasted is not diff 1 but it is diff 65535/65536
2886 2011-05-25 16:55:12 <sipa> no, diff 3 is 5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555500000000
2887 2011-05-25 16:55:15 <diki> which is essentially 0.99
2888 2011-05-25 16:55:19 <diki> round it up to 1 lol
2889 2011-05-25 16:55:31 <mtrlt> but not exactly :P
2890 2011-05-25 16:55:32 <lfm> diki that doesnt look like 3 to me
2891 2011-05-25 16:55:34 <diki> whaat? that follows no patter at all
2892 2011-05-25 16:55:38 <diki> *pattern
2893 2011-05-25 16:55:43 <sipa> diki: just leanr hexadecimal
2894 2011-05-25 16:55:45 <sipa> *learn
2895 2011-05-25 16:55:48 <mtrlt> oh right
2896 2011-05-25 16:55:56 <mtrlt> you didn'tknow hexadecimal
2897 2011-05-25 16:56:07 <diki> even if i learn that is def not explained there lol
2898 2011-05-25 16:56:21 Sage has quit ()
2899 2011-05-25 16:56:24 <sipa> in decimal: diff1: 0.9999999, diff2: 0.4999999, diff3: 0.3333333
2900 2011-05-25 16:56:31 <sipa> that that explain why the digits can change?
2901 2011-05-25 16:56:35 <mtrlt> difficulty is defined in terms of the target, not the otherway
2902 2011-05-25 16:56:53 maikmerten has joined
2903 2011-05-25 16:57:03 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2904 2011-05-25 16:57:04 <diki> well, that thing is actually called EASY_TARGET but idk
2905 2011-05-25 16:58:00 <lfm> easy target would be 0xFFFFFFFFFF...FFFFFFFFFF
2906 2011-05-25 16:58:12 <diki> which is what i posted
2907 2011-05-25 16:58:19 gjs278 has joined
2908 2011-05-25 16:58:23 <lfm> no zeros at all?
2909 2011-05-25 16:58:26 <diki> i guess that is not diff then?
2910 2011-05-25 16:58:36 <diki> it has zeroes at the end
2911 2011-05-25 16:58:59 <lfm> well it would be easier if there was no zeros at all
2912 2011-05-25 16:59:13 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2913 2011-05-25 16:59:29 <diki> i wish someone would write a calculator for that
2914 2011-05-25 16:59:47 <diki> adn then pops out the genie and says *Wish granted*
2915 2011-05-25 16:59:51 <diki> *and
2916 2011-05-25 16:59:56 ahbritto has joined
2917 2011-05-25 17:02:02 <diki> and i don't see anything in particular that does something with easy target
2918 2011-05-25 17:03:39 rs_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2919 2011-05-25 17:03:47 <ersi> You're always an easy target. *drumroll*
2920 2011-05-25 17:04:22 <diki> I think i heard something...must've been the wind
2921 2011-05-25 17:04:47 m00p has joined
2922 2011-05-25 17:05:36 sage has joined
2923 2011-05-25 17:06:05 <sage> is here someone mining in btcmine?
2924 2011-05-25 17:06:45 pirrr has joined
2925 2011-05-25 17:08:03 Ratt has joined
2926 2011-05-25 17:08:44 <erbs> minechime
2927 2011-05-25 17:09:00 d1g1t4l has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2928 2011-05-25 17:09:29 <sage> i have 370+mhash on both cores and my pool says i have only 718 :(
2929 2011-05-25 17:10:13 <diki> your own pool or deepbit/slush etc?
2930 2011-05-25 17:10:26 <sage> btcmine
2931 2011-05-25 17:10:38 <diki> it's avg share submission time
2932 2011-05-25 17:10:51 <diki> that is how the miner speed is calculated on a pool
2933 2011-05-25 17:10:57 <diki> but it's an estimate
2934 2011-05-25 17:11:39 fahadsadah has quit (Excess Flood)
2935 2011-05-25 17:12:31 <diki> damn, crytek finally released a pc patch preview after pissing at us for so long
2936 2011-05-25 17:13:18 <sage> i cracked up the cores another 20mhz, wanna see wheter the site will report any change
2937 2011-05-25 17:14:13 <diki> Sage are you sure you wanna OC?
2938 2011-05-25 17:14:22 <diki> you could potentially fuck up the card
2939 2011-05-25 17:14:22 <dekbit> on deepbit my hash rate fluctuates wildly
2940 2011-05-25 17:14:37 <diki> yeah deepbit kinda sucks at the calculations
2941 2011-05-25 17:14:39 <dekbit> anyone know if it is normal to get 1% stale shares
2942 2011-05-25 17:14:42 <dekbit> on deepbit?
2943 2011-05-25 17:14:45 <diki> yes it's normal
2944 2011-05-25 17:14:51 <dekbit> think im going to switch
2945 2011-05-25 17:14:56 <diki> if it's above %3 then there is a problem
2946 2011-05-25 17:14:58 <dekbit> ok
2947 2011-05-25 17:15:22 <dekbit> if he isnt even calculating hash rate properly then payouts are fucked as well
2948 2011-05-25 17:15:24 <diki> i switched from slush back to deepbit cause on slush's pool i make less than i do at deepbit
2949 2011-05-25 17:15:33 <dekbit> hmm
2950 2011-05-25 17:15:34 gandaro has left ()
2951 2011-05-25 17:15:49 <diki> But i only earn 0.01 for a found block
2952 2011-05-25 17:15:57 <dekbit> lol yeah
2953 2011-05-25 17:16:24 qwebirc80083 has joined
2954 2011-05-25 17:16:44 <erbs> baby got ocin
2955 2011-05-25 17:16:46 _Netsniper_ is now known as Netsniper
2956 2011-05-25 17:16:57 qwebirc80083 has quit (Client Quit)
2957 2011-05-25 17:17:03 Idler has joined
2958 2011-05-25 17:17:24 <ersi> sage: Consider whatever is displayed on a pool's homepage like a "luck-o-meter", what counts is how much work you submit. If you want to know how much you actually compute, check your miner software
2959 2011-05-25 17:17:44 <diki> this severely decreases what i get on deepbit
2960 2011-05-25 17:17:46 pyros1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2961 2011-05-25 17:17:59 <diki> there were times when it showed 140mh/s and it paid me less
2962 2011-05-25 17:18:15 <diki> but i get more if it's like 355
2963 2011-05-25 17:18:19 <diki> which i never have
2964 2011-05-25 17:18:25 <diki> on my actualy miner
2965 2011-05-25 17:18:29 <diki> *actual
2966 2011-05-25 17:18:41 <sage> diki my gpus are on 67°C, so i figure they should be fine
2967 2011-05-25 17:18:52 fahadsadah has joined
2968 2011-05-25 17:19:40 <sage> ersi: yea they report a bit more than the site, i have it in two windows so i cant add the two numbers together in real-time, but they report around 750Mhash/s
2969 2011-05-25 17:19:54 <diki> Sage, check the VRM temps
2970 2011-05-25 17:20:05 <diki> they are always higher than the GPU core
2971 2011-05-25 17:20:07 <sage> diki ~75atm
2972 2011-05-25 17:20:14 <diki> VRM temps?
2973 2011-05-25 17:20:16 <diki> u sure?
2974 2011-05-25 17:20:30 <sage> 77
2975 2011-05-25 17:20:43 <sage> yea
2976 2011-05-25 17:20:49 <diki> Mine are like 105-110
2977 2011-05-25 17:21:02 <diki> If i fart at the GPU an explosion would prolly occur
2978 2011-05-25 17:21:14 <sage> i had 85 and growing with oc switch on
2979 2011-05-25 17:21:27 <diki> OC switch = 450 watts just for the GPU
2980 2011-05-25 17:21:31 <sage> so i turned it off, downclocked the memory and now im overclocking the gpus slowly
2981 2011-05-25 17:21:50 <diki> my suggestion is to use Furmark for 15 minutes to an hour of testing
2982 2011-05-25 17:21:52 <sage> funny thing - even with the switch on my power fan didnt move :D
2983 2011-05-25 17:22:00 <diki> then play a game to be absolutely sure
2984 2011-05-25 17:22:02 ahbritto_ has joined
2985 2011-05-25 17:22:06 <sage> i mine
2986 2011-05-25 17:22:09 <sage> isnt it better? :D
2987 2011-05-25 17:22:15 <diki> i also mined=b0rked my card
2988 2011-05-25 17:22:29 <sage> what happened?
2989 2011-05-25 17:22:32 Kiba has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2990 2011-05-25 17:22:33 <diki> the only way to test the GPU for problems is OCCT
2991 2011-05-25 17:22:35 <erbs> bitmine salado
2992 2011-05-25 17:22:39 <sage> also i cant play, directx or something is fucked up
2993 2011-05-25 17:23:04 <sage> tried reinstalling everything, i probably will have to reinstall the windows as well
2994 2011-05-25 17:23:26 <sage> i have occt installed
2995 2011-05-25 17:23:49 <Ratt> So I generated 4 blocks on the testnet last night and this morning all 4 are orphan. Is this normal?
2996 2011-05-25 17:24:21 <diki> orphan blocks? what are those?
2997 2011-05-25 17:24:48 * luke-jr facepalms
2998 2011-05-25 17:25:02 * diki came at luke's face :P
2999 2011-05-25 17:25:15 <diki> *on
3000 2011-05-25 17:25:28 <Ratt> What? Am I missing something obvious?
3001 2011-05-25 17:25:53 <erbs> someone probably outhashed you
3002 2011-05-25 17:25:55 <erbs> no?
3003 2011-05-25 17:26:13 <Ratt> Well, that's what I would assume, but 4 in a row?
3004 2011-05-25 17:26:34 <sage> so 903Mhz cores, 401Mhz mems (stupid msiburner cant move it more precisely) -> 69°C core, 78°C vrm ~760Mhash/s
3005 2011-05-25 17:26:48 <diki> 6990 right?
3006 2011-05-25 17:26:54 <sage> yes
3007 2011-05-25 17:27:41 <sage> and the sun is shining in my direction, temps may grow a bit but not for long
3008 2011-05-25 17:27:51 <luke-jr> Ratt: poor connectivity: nobody got your blocks
3009 2011-05-25 17:28:34 <Ratt> There were 10+ confirms before I went to bed, so someone got them at least. I'm just trying to figure out why all 4 got orphaned over night.
3010 2011-05-25 17:28:53 <diki> their parent went to bed so
3011 2011-05-25 17:29:00 <diki> they got orphaned :D
3012 2011-05-25 17:29:21 <Ratt> 16 connections
3013 2011-05-25 17:29:30 <erbs> 10 confirms? wow
3014 2011-05-25 17:29:37 <erbs> but i guess its not too hard to mine on testnet
3015 2011-05-25 17:30:06 <sage> diki: so what can happen to my card? temps are normal id say, what else can go wrong?
3016 2011-05-25 17:30:33 <luke-jr> sage: damage
3017 2011-05-25 17:30:33 <diki> dunno
3018 2011-05-25 17:30:49 <luke-jr> sage: overclocking = damage
3019 2011-05-25 17:30:51 kermit has left ("Leaving.")
3020 2011-05-25 17:30:54 <luke-jr> sage: no matter what temp or how stable
3021 2011-05-25 17:30:58 <diki> mine got damaged
3022 2011-05-25 17:30:59 <Ramen> he under clocked it...
3023 2011-05-25 17:31:18 <luke-jr> Ramen: wouldn't surprise me if that damages it too
3024 2011-05-25 17:31:28 <luke-jr> Ramen: but 903 MHz is normal core?
3025 2011-05-25 17:31:50 <sage> luke-jr no, 830 is on this bios and 880 on second
3026 2011-05-25 17:32:00 kermit has joined
3027 2011-05-25 17:32:12 <luke-jr> sage: so you damaged it. your risk, your problem.
3028 2011-05-25 17:32:17 <Ramen> oh
3029 2011-05-25 17:32:19 datagutt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3030 2011-05-25 17:32:28 <luke-jr> sage: do the world a favour and don't try to commit fraudulent warranty abuse
3031 2011-05-25 17:32:48 datagutt has joined
3032 2011-05-25 17:32:48 datagutt has quit (Changing host)
3033 2011-05-25 17:32:48 datagutt has joined
3034 2011-05-25 17:32:54 <erbs> overcloaca
3035 2011-05-25 17:33:08 <sage> erbs: rofl
3036 2011-05-25 17:33:24 skeledrew1 has joined
3037 2011-05-25 17:33:48 <sage> ok so i set the cores to 880 MHz, which is supported by the second bios setting
3038 2011-05-25 17:34:03 <Ratt> What's the problem specifically sage?
3039 2011-05-25 17:34:26 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3040 2011-05-25 17:34:36 <sage> Ratt: theres no problem, im just not sure if im doing it right... im new to the whole oc thing and that card was rather expensive
3041 2011-05-25 17:34:37 <Ramen> what are the chances that someone can write a virus that targets the bitcoin network and generate fake money?
3042 2011-05-25 17:34:51 <Ratt> So what's your question? I must have missed it prior to coming in
3043 2011-05-25 17:35:05 <Ratt> Ramen: Can? I would say 100%
3044 2011-05-25 17:36:19 <sage> Ratt: i just wanted to know what clocks do experienced people use and how it works... i have mine on 880 gpu 400 core -> 65°C gpu 71°C vrm
3045 2011-05-25 17:36:33 <sage> Ratt: but id hate to see my card destroyed or something
3046 2011-05-25 17:37:01 <Ramen> yeah 6990 is so exp
3047 2011-05-25 17:37:56 <sage> power supply has no problems, i really like it, but im not sure about the card
3048 2011-05-25 17:38:07 <diki> what brand and wattage?
3049 2011-05-25 17:38:14 <sage> corsair ax850W
3050 2011-05-25 17:39:13 <Ratt> Sage: with those clocks I wouldn't worry about it. It's not impossible to destroy a card but it usually shuts down before it kills itself. Not always if you're doing something crazy though.
3051 2011-05-25 17:41:56 ezl has joined
3052 2011-05-25 17:42:17 <sage> Ratt: my whole system shutted down several times yesterday (and i was only downclocking), today its working just fine, so i tried overclocking the core a bit
3053 2011-05-25 17:42:56 <sage> Ratt: the whole card had like 85°C when i first installed it, so im kinda proud on the way it works now :D
3054 2011-05-25 17:45:44 <luke-jr> sage: fixing the clocks is not going to undo the damage
3055 2011-05-25 17:45:57 <sage> luke-jr why do i get the feeling you are just trolling me?
3056 2011-05-25 17:46:30 <luke-jr> sage: because you took a risk you weren't really willing to take.
3057 2011-05-25 17:47:06 <sage> luke-jr: its because i dont fully understand the thing im playing with... if you can teach me something please do
3058 2011-05-25 17:47:38 <sage> luke-jr but i need some facts, not only "dont play with the matches or you get burned"
3059 2011-05-25 17:47:40 <Ratt> What damage are we talking about? IT doesn't sound like there was any damage?
3060 2011-05-25 17:48:14 <luke-jr> sage: overclocking always does irreversible damage. the damage generally results in a much shorter time-before-failure. the exact lifetime is unpredictable. if you're only mining, the extra MH short-term might be worth the card's early death.
3061 2011-05-25 17:48:16 <sage> Ratt: he started talking about how i damaged my card when i set it to 900Mhz
3062 2011-05-25 17:48:44 <Ratt> I very seriously doubt that.
3063 2011-05-25 17:48:48 <sage> me too
3064 2011-05-25 17:49:02 <Ratt> luke-jr: That is utter bollocks
3065 2011-05-25 17:49:04 <diki> Sage, not like luke understands either
3066 2011-05-25 17:49:06 <luke-jr> those are the facts.
3067 2011-05-25 17:49:22 <sage> he may be right, but i doubt the "early death" means something like "one year or less"
3068 2011-05-25 17:49:31 <luke-jr> sage: like I said, it's unpredictable.
3069 2011-05-25 17:50:05 <luke-jr> an OMAP designed to last 5 years at 500 MHz, will last about 1 year (on average) at 600 MHz
3070 2011-05-25 17:50:16 <luke-jr> and as you go higher, it drops exponentially
3071 2011-05-25 17:50:17 <Ratt> Mild overclocking, which is what we are talking about here, if it were to result in a shorter lifetime, which is specious as best, would lessen the useful life by a tiny fraction of the amount of it's total life. The card will be years obsolete before it gets anywhere near it's physical lifetime.
3072 2011-05-25 17:50:37 <sage> luke-jr: thats fucking 20% dude
3073 2011-05-25 17:50:57 toffoo has quit ()
3074 2011-05-25 17:50:58 inductor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3075 2011-05-25 17:51:00 <luke-jr> sage: that's just OMAP, too!
3076 2011-05-25 17:51:04 <Ratt> Having extensive experience in exotic overclockin with LN2, Phase and water, I can say with 100% confidence that overclocking your card even to extremes shortens it's life by marginal amounts.
3077 2011-05-25 17:51:14 inductor has joined
3078 2011-05-25 17:51:46 <sage> Ratt: all i can see are temps on gpu and vrm, i keep them under 70 or 75 respectively
3079 2011-05-25 17:51:47 toffoo has joined
3080 2011-05-25 17:52:15 <sage> rest is clouded by a myst :D
3081 2011-05-25 17:52:28 <BlueMatt> sipa: ping
3082 2011-05-25 17:52:36 <Ratt> The only premature deaths I have seen from overclocking were with LN2 and cranking the clocks beyond any realisitic numbers. And i suspect those deaths are more related to the fact that the chip is literally frozen prior to power on and then it's getting a sudden burst of electrical heat and causing microscopic fissures in the die more than the overclocking itself.
3083 2011-05-25 17:53:10 <sage> luke-jr: 6990 has preset 880mhz (on huge watts), so oc to 900 shouldnt hurt that much
3084 2011-05-25 17:53:29 <sage> even if i dont have the oc switch on i hope :D
3085 2011-05-25 17:53:39 <luke-jr> sage: "much" is relative.
3086 2011-05-25 17:53:53 <sage> luke-jr: just like your "early death"
3087 2011-05-25 17:54:02 bulletbill has joined
3088 2011-05-25 17:54:29 <sage> luke-jr so far you compared my 2% oc to 20%
3089 2011-05-25 17:54:35 bulletbill has left ()
3090 2011-05-25 17:54:36 <sage> which i dont buy
3091 2011-05-25 17:55:19 <sage> luke-jr is exactly the reason i wanted to talk to someone experienced with 6990
3092 2011-05-25 17:55:25 <JFK911> i like to chew oc-80's
3093 2011-05-25 17:56:38 <Ratt> I don't have much experience with the 6990 but I have over a decade and a half of experience with OCing.
3094 2011-05-25 17:57:27 <sage> Ratt: i can see that... i have some friends who do some amateur ocing from time to time, but i dont believe them much either
3095 2011-05-25 17:58:39 <Ratt> If I were to have a pair of 6990's on my main machine, which I'll probably have soon, I would probably be running them at 1 GHz on water, as a point of refernece.
3096 2011-05-25 17:58:53 <Ratt> The cards would be old and tired long before they failed at that clock.
3097 2011-05-25 17:59:20 <sage> i dont have water.. only 120mm chasis fan and 230mm home fan :D
3098 2011-05-25 17:59:48 <Ratt> As long as your temps are ok, you are generally fine. The AMD cards have the VRM problems lately, which may contribute to some premature deaths, since those aren't being cooled properly... but it's still a cooling thing, not a clock thing.
3099 2011-05-25 18:00:27 <sage> i see my temps are like this vrm#2>gpu1>vrm#1>gpu#2
3100 2011-05-25 18:00:43 [1]currentB has joined
3101 2011-05-25 18:01:52 <sage> it all went a bit down after underclocking the memory from 1250 to 400
3102 2011-05-25 18:01:54 <mtrlt> where do you see the vrm temps
3103 2011-05-25 18:02:03 <sage> gpu-z
3104 2011-05-25 18:02:15 <mtrlt> hmz. i'll check mine too :p
3105 2011-05-25 18:03:06 currentB has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3106 2011-05-25 18:03:07 [1]currentB is now known as currentB
3107 2011-05-25 18:03:44 titi has joined
3108 2011-05-25 18:03:49 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3109 2011-05-25 18:04:02 <sage> dont forget to share with us :)
3110 2011-05-25 18:04:37 titi has quit (Client Quit)
3111 2011-05-25 18:05:44 <oneman> oh my
3112 2011-05-25 18:06:00 <erbs> bitcoin was on npr yesterday?
3113 2011-05-25 18:06:01 <erbs> cool
3114 2011-05-25 18:06:18 <erbs> when will kramer start telling ppl to buy up btc
3115 2011-05-25 18:07:23 <sage> whats npr?
3116 2011-05-25 18:08:51 <mtrlt> lol gpu-z froze my rig. maybe i'll not check after all :P
3117 2011-05-25 18:09:13 kika_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3118 2011-05-25 18:09:53 <SerajewelKS> what logic triggers the client to reconcile two divergent chains?
3119 2011-05-25 18:10:55 <Jere_Jones> ;;bc,stats
3120 2011-05-25 18:10:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126676 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 331 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 4 hours, 13 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 418280.74227965
3121 2011-05-25 18:11:07 <Jere_Jones> Geez...
3122 2011-05-25 18:11:19 Slix` has joined
3123 2011-05-25 18:11:49 <sage> mtrlt: it happened to me as well, you have to stop mining, start gpu-z and then start mining again :D
3124 2011-05-25 18:11:50 <SerajewelKS> i have two testnet instances connected with divergent chains, one 10 blocks longer than the other
3125 2011-05-25 18:11:55 <SerajewelKS> and i can't get them to pick one
3126 2011-05-25 18:12:07 <sage> mtrlt: but if you have dc card dont switch between the cores, it will freeze again
3127 2011-05-25 18:12:11 <mtrlt> sage: ok nice to know :P
3128 2011-05-25 18:12:20 <mtrlt> dc card?
3129 2011-05-25 18:12:26 <sage> dual-core
3130 2011-05-25 18:12:30 <mtrlt> ok
3131 2011-05-25 18:12:39 <mtrlt> thought "direct current"
3132 2011-05-25 18:12:40 <mtrlt> :P
3133 2011-05-25 18:12:48 <sage> i dont even know what that means
3134 2011-05-25 18:12:57 <SerajewelKS> gey guys, #bitcoin-mining is over there -->
3135 2011-05-25 18:13:01 <SerajewelKS> hey*
3136 2011-05-25 18:13:02 <sage> but on 6990 second vrm is hotter for some reason
3137 2011-05-25 18:13:22 B0g4r7 has joined
3138 2011-05-25 18:13:44 Teslah has joined
3139 2011-05-25 18:13:44 <sage> SerajewelKS i just clicked on "chatroom" on wiki :)
3140 2011-05-25 18:13:55 <sage> SerajewelKS i have no idea where i am or how to get to the mining section
3141 2011-05-25 18:14:15 <SerajewelKS> sage: /join #bitcoin-mining
3142 2011-05-25 18:14:21 <SerajewelKS> the wiki should be clearer about this :(
3143 2011-05-25 18:14:56 <sage> agreed, im not used to irc :(
3144 2011-05-25 18:15:10 ArtForzZz has joined
3145 2011-05-25 18:15:14 m00p has joined
3146 2011-05-25 18:15:39 <erbs> ArtForz rules
3147 2011-05-25 18:15:41 <SerajewelKS> does the client just need time to trigger an orphan reconciliation?
3148 2011-05-25 18:15:56 <SerajewelKS> what's the deciding factor?
3149 2011-05-25 18:16:12 <wumpus> I mined testnet coins for two days and lost them all
3150 2011-05-25 18:16:21 <wumpus> seems there's indeed some net split
3151 2011-05-25 18:16:23 sage has quit (Quit: thx ya all)
3152 2011-05-25 18:16:27 <wumpus> or join...
3153 2011-05-25 18:16:40 <SerajewelKS> wumpus: no, i'm fabricating a split to test something, on an isolated instance
3154 2011-05-25 18:16:51 <SerajewelKS> from block 0
3155 2011-05-25 18:16:53 <wumpus> okay
3156 2011-05-25 18:17:05 <SerajewelKS> and i can't get the three clients to join together again. they are connected, but they each still think there is a different chain
3157 2011-05-25 18:17:14 <wumpus> still it's pretty strange, they were already confirmed and al, and this evening I looked and my transaction log is empty
3158 2011-05-25 18:17:17 <SerajewelKS> even though one is ten blocks longer than the other
3159 2011-05-25 18:17:34 <wumpus> not that I care that much, it's only debug money, but heh
3160 2011-05-25 18:17:43 kika_ has joined
3161 2011-05-25 18:17:46 <SerajewelKS> sipa: i don't suppose you know?
3162 2011-05-25 18:18:03 <kika_> how can i create on KDE an icon that when clicked will execute a bash script ?
3163 2011-05-25 18:18:57 <SerajewelKS> kika_: hmm. #kde maybe?
3164 2011-05-25 18:18:58 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3165 2011-05-25 18:20:34 <wumpus> just make an application launcher, which executes your bash script
3166 2011-05-25 18:20:37 <erbs> truebit
3167 2011-05-25 18:20:40 <erbs> hypercoin
3168 2011-05-25 18:20:50 <erbs> bitboat
3169 2011-05-25 18:21:41 <wumpus> even the faucet is cheating me on testnet :)
3170 2011-05-25 18:22:14 <erbs> mcdonalds to accept bitcoins at all retail locations in the US
3171 2011-05-25 18:22:23 <diki> why on linux the bitcoin icon doesnt appear?
3172 2011-05-25 18:23:32 <erbs> i dunno
3173 2011-05-25 18:23:35 <oneman> anyone want to try a browser based GPU miner
3174 2011-05-25 18:24:05 <erbs> cool.. how does it work
3175 2011-05-25 18:24:07 <Pilate> oneman: did you write one? ive been looking through webgl shit
3176 2011-05-25 18:24:08 <erbs> browser can access gpu?
3177 2011-05-25 18:24:37 <oneman> if you want to try it, I am alpha testing now so message me and ill hook you up
3178 2011-05-25 18:24:56 <erbs> hook me up!!
3179 2011-05-25 18:24:56 <SerajewelKS> probably flash?
3180 2011-05-25 18:25:06 <diki> i wonder is it possible to use a normal CD-R as a cache for static files that dont update etc
3181 2011-05-25 18:25:24 <wumpus> isn't a cache supposed to be fast?
3182 2011-05-25 18:25:40 <diki> when you dont have enough ram, speed is on the bottom of the list
3183 2011-05-25 18:26:09 <wumpus> well there is this thing called swap memory
3184 2011-05-25 18:26:31 kika_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3185 2011-05-25 18:26:33 <diki> aka virtual ram
3186 2011-05-25 18:26:37 <wumpus> right
3187 2011-05-25 18:26:38 <diki> but that reads and writes
3188 2011-05-25 18:26:48 <JFK911> diki: see knoppix
3189 2011-05-25 18:26:49 <diki> a cd-r after write is only read capable
3190 2011-05-25 18:27:03 <diki> knoppix is a linux os, right?
3191 2011-05-25 18:27:06 <SerajewelKS> diki: it's still slower than a hard drive
3192 2011-05-25 18:27:07 <diki> i am looking for windows stuff
3193 2011-05-25 18:27:08 <wumpus> butwhy? for security purposes or something?
3194 2011-05-25 18:27:18 <JFK911> diki: yes but its a great example of your theory
3195 2011-05-25 18:27:25 <diki> why?
3196 2011-05-25 18:27:31 <JFK911> for windows, you need to use embedded version
3197 2011-05-25 18:27:48 <diki> embedded version of?
3198 2011-05-25 18:27:53 <JFK911> of Windows
3199 2011-05-25 18:27:55 <JFK911> XPe may not work
3200 2011-05-25 18:27:56 <JFK911> CE will
3201 2011-05-25 18:28:04 <diki> lol CE
3202 2011-05-25 18:28:05 <wumpus> you could run windows in a virtualbox in knoppix I guess
3203 2011-05-25 18:28:06 <JFK911> but you need to have some real storage too
3204 2011-05-25 18:28:09 bitcoiner has joined
3205 2011-05-25 18:28:10 <JFK911> they call CE something else now
3206 2011-05-25 18:28:14 <JFK911> but it's not so bad
3207 2011-05-25 18:28:26 <diki> Everything before XP is bad lol
3208 2011-05-25 18:28:28 <JFK911> if you dont look it the same way as your doze desktop
3209 2011-05-25 18:28:44 GarrettB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3210 2011-05-25 18:28:55 <JFK911> WinPE might be able to run too.
3211 2011-05-25 18:29:12 <diki> Lol no
3212 2011-05-25 18:29:18 <wumpus> you can boot xp from an usb stick with some tricks afaik
3213 2011-05-25 18:29:19 <diki> I am not reinstalling ever
3214 2011-05-25 18:29:33 <JFK911> well you can use WinPE as an operating system
3215 2011-05-25 18:29:36 <diki> wait, is it possible to make an OS just for mining?
3216 2011-05-25 18:29:48 <wumpus> everything is possible
3217 2011-05-25 18:30:17 <diki> Small offtopic. I hate SE
3218 2011-05-25 18:30:17 <cosurgi> what is this transaction: ?
3219 2011-05-25 18:30:19 <cosurgi> Txn 8e407e2d849518013af971df5e40b543f107bb771560885b6cf865e10688fbd7: 15iHAj1BcRbw8pMbem8wTzKgGQxU18sSJP 3î§518.î§ TBC
3220 2011-05-25 18:30:35 <wumpus> can someone please send me some testnet coins at mgddgQ71F4MPcXPXSt3uDW5qEANVn4213Q ?
3221 2011-05-25 18:30:37 <diki> I plug in my ear speakers or headphones(whatever you prefer) and phone just shuts down
3222 2011-05-25 18:30:42 <BlueMatt> cosurgi: its luke's tonal crap
3223 2011-05-25 18:31:06 <cosurgi> BlueMatt: you can do BTC transactions in tonal??
3224 2011-05-25 18:31:22 <SerajewelKS> wumpus: how many you need?
3225 2011-05-25 18:31:22 <BlueMatt> cosurgi: tonal is just a base, like decimal...in the end they are all in binary
3226 2011-05-25 18:31:40 <BlueMatt> just up to how they are displayed
3227 2011-05-25 18:31:44 <cosurgi> ok. that's base 7, right?
3228 2011-05-25 18:31:49 <BlueMatt> 16 I think
3229 2011-05-25 18:31:55 <cosurgi> hmm
3230 2011-05-25 18:32:00 <cosurgi> nvm
3231 2011-05-25 18:32:01 <BlueMatt> its like hex, but reinventing the didgits...
3232 2011-05-25 18:32:10 <cosurgi> ok
3233 2011-05-25 18:32:15 <wumpus> SerajewelKS: uhh 1 would be enough
3234 2011-05-25 18:32:41 <wumpus> SerajewelKS: it doesn't matter that much, but I wonder if I will see an transaction again
3235 2011-05-25 18:32:44 <JFK911> we should just use base 2^16 since everyone has unicode now
3236 2011-05-25 18:32:55 <JFK911> most integers could be represented by one figure
3237 2011-05-25 18:33:02 <SerajewelKS> wumpus: hmm, i guess it did split. my coins went away too.
3238 2011-05-25 18:33:12 <BlueMatt> JFK911: sounds great....for those of us who can remember that many digits
3239 2011-05-25 18:33:14 <JFK911> man that sure would simplify types
3240 2011-05-25 18:33:33 <JFK911> BlueMatt: But you only have to remember one
3241 2011-05-25 18:33:34 <wumpus> SerajewelKS: ok thanks for checking, this is weird
3242 2011-05-25 18:33:44 <wumpus> SerajewelKS: when did you mine yours?
3243 2011-05-25 18:33:53 <JFK911> unless your numbers are larger than 65536
3244 2011-05-25 18:34:08 <erbs> did the new chain happen all at once?
3245 2011-05-25 18:34:09 <BlueMatt> JFK911: no, I have to memorize 1...9...a...z...A...Z...#...~...`...
3246 2011-05-25 18:34:19 <BlueMatt> and everything in between ;)
3247 2011-05-25 18:34:21 <JFK911> the values are never important if you're programming
3248 2011-05-25 18:34:22 <diki> If you guys can't see cyrillic, then your systems are screwed. ТеÑÑ Ð»Ð¾Ð»
3249 2011-05-25 18:34:25 <JFK911> let the computer figure that out
3250 2011-05-25 18:34:38 <JFK911> all you have to remember eg. "my limit for this variable is the left facing swastika"
3251 2011-05-25 18:34:41 <oneman> alright folks, here is the browser based GPU mining alpha :: http://kradminer.com ALPHA !!!
3252 2011-05-25 18:34:46 <BlueMatt> JFK911: lol
3253 2011-05-25 18:35:24 <SerajewelKS> wumpus: last week
3254 2011-05-25 18:35:29 <BlueMatt> oneman: epic
3255 2011-05-25 18:35:55 <JFK911> diki: preved
3256 2011-05-25 18:36:06 <diki> preved?
3257 2011-05-25 18:36:29 <JFK911> http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B4
3258 2011-05-25 18:36:44 <[Tycho]> diki, use cp1251 please
3259 2011-05-25 18:37:23 <SerajewelKS> #$%&
3260 2011-05-25 18:37:33 <SerajewelKS> i need a way to visualize the block chain in my local database :(
3261 2011-05-25 18:38:36 <BlueMatt> oneman: awww, no x64 support
3262 2011-05-25 18:38:45 <oneman> it works on x64
3263 2011-05-25 18:39:07 <diki> blumeat--firefox?
3264 2011-05-25 18:39:08 <oneman> I've only tried windows 7 64bit and Linux 32bit tho so far
3265 2011-05-25 18:39:10 <diki> *bluematt
3266 2011-05-25 18:39:14 <BlueMatt> oneman: hm, doesnt work on my system, and the faq seems to say it does not
3267 2011-05-25 18:39:17 <luke-jr> it's called x86_64 or amd64, idiots
3268 2011-05-25 18:39:18 <BlueMatt> diki: yea
3269 2011-05-25 18:39:23 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: oh fuck off
3270 2011-05-25 18:39:24 <SerajewelKS> is there a way to dump the hashes of the main block chain from the database on disk?
3271 2011-05-25 18:39:24 <oneman> what os?
3272 2011-05-25 18:39:28 <diki> webcl plugin installed?
3273 2011-05-25 18:39:28 <BlueMatt> oneman: linux
3274 2011-05-25 18:39:34 <oneman> what GPU?
3275 2011-05-25 18:39:41 <BlueMatt> "Q: Does the Nokia WebCL extension work on Mac / Android / 64-bit systems?Not yet."
3276 2011-05-25 18:39:45 broker has joined
3277 2011-05-25 18:39:48 <BlueMatt> from the nokia thinggy's faq
3278 2011-05-25 18:39:52 <BlueMatt> nvidia
3279 2011-05-25 18:39:54 <oneman> yeah I know I've read it
3280 2011-05-25 18:40:02 <oneman> I've had success with 32bit nvidia on linux
3281 2011-05-25 18:40:08 <luke-jr> oneman: I thoguht you said exclusive to Eligius? :P
3282 2011-05-25 18:40:11 <oneman> but I have not been able to try 64bit nvidia
3283 2011-05-25 18:40:23 <BlueMatt> well then here is the official "it doesnt work"
3284 2011-05-25 18:40:27 <oneman> ill put it in for that
3285 2011-05-25 18:42:23 <luke-jr> â¦
3286 2011-05-25 18:42:48 * SerajewelKS gives up
3287 2011-05-25 18:42:51 <SerajewelKS> this is undebuggable
3288 2011-05-25 18:43:02 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
3289 2011-05-25 18:43:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126686 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 321 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 3 hours, 17 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 419288.52584023
3290 2011-05-25 18:43:52 lolol has joined
3291 2011-05-25 18:46:10 jrabbit has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3292 2011-05-25 18:46:56 callmep has joined
3293 2011-05-25 18:47:33 <callmep> hello miners
3294 2011-05-25 18:47:56 <BlueMatt> there are no miners here
3295 2011-05-25 18:48:10 <wumpus> miners are in the caves over at #bitcoin-mining
3296 2011-05-25 18:48:34 <SerajewelKS> there doesn't seem to be any easy way to dump data about the block chain nor inspect blocks
3297 2011-05-25 18:48:49 <BlueMatt> SerajewelKS: nope, blockexplorer is the way to go
3298 2011-05-25 18:49:03 <callmep> ok thank you, where can i find a market place? any help would be appreciated...
3299 2011-05-25 18:49:03 <SerajewelKS> BlueMatt: and how the fuck is it going to know about the blocks in my testnet-in-a-box
3300 2011-05-25 18:49:29 <erbs> kradminer = awesome
3301 2011-05-25 18:49:42 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3302 2011-05-25 18:49:43 <BlueMatt> callmep: #bitcoin-otc or, if you prefer a bit quieter, #bitcoin-pit but the second is strictly trading, no discussions
3303 2011-05-25 18:50:10 <callmep> @bluematt thanks a bunch
3304 2011-05-25 18:50:11 <BlueMatt> SerajewelKS: look around, there are a couple getblock patches
3305 2011-05-25 18:50:16 <x6763> SerajewelKS: or write your own code...the blk0001.dat file is pretty simple to parse, and the blkindex.dat file has all of the blocks and transactions indexed (need the bdb lib...4.7 i believe)
3306 2011-05-25 18:50:30 <SerajewelKS> -_-
3307 2011-05-25 18:50:31 <BlueMatt> gavin has one
3308 2011-05-25 18:50:43 <wumpus> yeah gavin's bitcoin-utils
3309 2011-05-25 18:50:47 <soultcer> ;;help
3310 2011-05-25 18:50:48 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
3311 2011-05-25 18:50:49 jrabbit has joined
3312 2011-05-25 18:50:52 <BlueMatt> no, gavins bitcoin branch
3313 2011-05-25 18:50:54 <BlueMatt> not bitcointools
3314 2011-05-25 18:50:55 callmep has quit (Client Quit)
3315 2011-05-25 18:51:23 <wumpus> I thought bitcointools could be used to inspect block files as well
3316 2011-05-25 18:51:38 <erbs> meliketoast
3317 2011-05-25 18:51:44 <BlueMatt> yea, but not while its running
3318 2011-05-25 18:51:57 <SerajewelKS> why does it feel like hacking on bitcoin is like taking potshots at a mosquito in the dark
3319 2011-05-25 18:52:12 <BlueMatt> doesnt feel that way to me...
3320 2011-05-25 18:52:12 <wumpus> right, bitcoin has an exclusive lock
3321 2011-05-25 18:53:15 <wumpus> SerajewelKS: because it's the craziest open source project ever?
3322 2011-05-25 18:53:27 <x6763> i wrote my own code so i didn't have to deal with the bitcoin client code
3323 2011-05-25 18:53:40 <luke-jr> x6763: :D
3324 2011-05-25 18:54:04 <SerajewelKS> i think because it's an undocumented heap of code
3325 2011-05-25 18:54:08 <wumpus> yeah like everyone seems to be doing
3326 2011-05-25 18:54:25 gsathya has joined
3327 2011-05-25 18:54:26 <BlueMatt> oh come on, after you spend a bit of time, its not that bad
3328 2011-05-25 18:54:35 <BlueMatt> especially if you know exactly what you want to do going in
3329 2011-05-25 18:55:01 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes it is, because the people maintaining the blob are bigots and won't merge anything reasonable
3330 2011-05-25 18:55:06 <wumpus> in a year we'll have at least 6 different clients, I think
3331 2011-05-25 18:55:07 <SerajewelKS> i know exactly what i want to do, but trying to figure out why that's not happening is incredibly frustrating. it's like the client is lying to me about the block chain.
3332 2011-05-25 18:55:22 <BlueMatt> /kick luke-jr that is just downright rude, please keep that kind of crap out of the chan
3333 2011-05-25 18:55:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: just the truth
3334 2011-05-25 18:56:00 luke-jr has joined
3335 2011-05-25 18:56:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: just the truth
3336 2011-05-25 18:56:10 <wumpus> well the fricking testnet cheated me out of my coins, I hate it
3337 2011-05-25 18:56:18 <BlueMatt> ?
3338 2011-05-25 18:56:21 <luke-jr> â¦
3339 2011-05-25 18:56:22 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rcad4c2f57d2e gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoin/ (Manifest bitcoin-0.3.20.1.ebuild bitcoin-0.3.20.2.ebuild): net-p2p/bitcoin: Florian Schmaus failed to apply his change to all the versions -.- http://tinyurl.com/3gwyfor
3340 2011-05-25 18:56:25 <BlueMatt> its testnet that kind of crap is designed to happen
3341 2011-05-25 18:56:32 <luke-jr> wumpus: peer with blockexplorer next time
3342 2011-05-25 18:56:47 <wumpus> so how am I supposed to test anything without coins
3343 2011-05-25 18:56:56 <BlueMatt> faucet
3344 2011-05-25 18:57:08 <BlueMatt> or ask, there are always people here who will give you a thousand or two
3345 2011-05-25 18:57:15 <luke-jr> someone took all my testnet coins. I don't recall if they returned them.
3346 2011-05-25 18:58:36 <psymin> Are there any arduino units available to buy with BTC?
3347 2011-05-25 18:58:52 <BlueMatt> psymin: not the place... #bitcoin-otc or #bitcoin-pit
3348 2011-05-25 18:58:58 <psymin> thx, sorry :)
3349 2011-05-25 19:00:20 <SerajewelKS> wtf, that's what happened
3350 2011-05-25 19:00:32 <SerajewelKS> i thought that transactions on the orphan chain got re-integrated into the main chain?
3351 2011-05-25 19:00:43 <luke-jr> SerajewelKS: yes, if possible
3352 2011-05-25 19:00:46 <BlueMatt> should, but might have to be retransmitted
3353 2011-05-25 19:00:56 <SerajewelKS> -_-
3354 2011-05-25 19:01:01 <SerajewelKS> k so i'm a tool
3355 2011-05-25 19:01:23 <SerajewelKS> it's still floating with 0 confirmations, no wonder i can't find it in a block
3356 2011-05-25 19:01:35 * SerajewelKS goes and sits in the corner
3357 2011-05-25 19:02:37 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
3358 2011-05-25 19:03:23 <SerajewelKS> perfect, ok, my patch does work
3359 2011-05-25 19:03:30 <erbs> nice
3360 2011-05-25 19:03:56 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3361 2011-05-25 19:06:23 <SerajewelKS> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/199 is ready now
3362 2011-05-25 19:06:50 <BlueMatt> can you rebase?
3363 2011-05-25 19:06:57 <BlueMatt> (into one commit)
3364 2011-05-25 19:07:22 <SerajewelKS> yeah
3365 2011-05-25 19:07:47 kreal- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3366 2011-05-25 19:08:38 <SerajewelKS> done
3367 2011-05-25 19:09:16 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3368 2011-05-25 19:10:19 moop has joined
3369 2011-05-25 19:10:27 kreal- has joined
3370 2011-05-25 19:12:50 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3371 2011-05-25 19:13:36 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3372 2011-05-25 19:15:17 stuhood has joined
3373 2011-05-25 19:16:03 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3374 2011-05-25 19:17:39 marlowe has joined
3375 2011-05-25 19:18:12 <diki> shouldnt listsinceblock be listafterblock?
3376 2011-05-25 19:18:38 <diki> i mean if it lists tx after the specified block, the command should be corresponding to the action
3377 2011-05-25 19:19:58 <luke-jr> it lists tx since the specified block
3378 2011-05-25 19:20:02 <SerajewelKS> they mean the same thing in this context
3379 2011-05-25 19:20:18 X-Scale has joined
3380 2011-05-25 19:20:18 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3381 2011-05-25 19:20:29 <diki> no they dont lol
3382 2011-05-25 19:20:51 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3383 2011-05-25 19:20:56 <luke-jr> yes they do. learn English.
3384 2011-05-25 19:21:03 <diki> Shut up luke
3385 2011-05-25 19:21:05 <diki> ...
3386 2011-05-25 19:21:09 darin has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
3387 2011-05-25 19:21:17 <SerajewelKS> diki: ok, what do you take the first command to mean then?
3388 2011-05-25 19:21:26 <diki> nvm
3389 2011-05-25 19:21:27 <luke-jr> shut up diki
3390 2011-05-25 19:21:37 <diki> Luke, ba bye
3391 2011-05-25 19:21:40 <luke-jr> bye
3392 2011-05-25 19:21:41 darin has joined
3393 2011-05-25 19:21:48 <SerajewelKS> so much love
3394 2011-05-25 19:21:49 <diki> it means you, getting out
3395 2011-05-25 19:21:54 <diki> now go
3396 2011-05-25 19:21:56 <luke-jr> no u
3397 2011-05-25 19:22:00 <luke-jr> you're the idiot
3398 2011-05-25 19:22:01 <luke-jr> :P
3399 2011-05-25 19:22:03 <BlueMatt> oh stfu
3400 2011-05-25 19:22:06 <gjs278> diki is entering hulk mode
3401 2011-05-25 19:22:11 <luke-jr> SerajewelKS: anyhow, does it list unconfirmed?
3402 2011-05-25 19:22:15 <SerajewelKS> luke-jr: no
3403 2011-05-25 19:22:42 <SerajewelKS> luke-jr: well, it might, actually, if you omit the block. hmm. that might be a bug.
3404 2011-05-25 19:22:49 <luke-jr> SerajewelKS: how does it handle a reorg, btw?
3405 2011-05-25 19:22:58 <luke-jr> ie, if the specified block isn't in the main chain
3406 2011-05-25 19:23:04 <SerajewelKS> luke-jr: that's what i just tested. it handles a reorg the way i wrote it to. :P
3407 2011-05-25 19:23:15 <SerajewelKS> luke-jr: it uses the nearest ancestor in the main chain
3408 2011-05-25 19:23:19 <luke-jr> nice
3409 2011-05-25 19:23:46 <luke-jr> SerajewelKS: IMO, it should include unconfirmed stuff
3410 2011-05-25 19:23:48 <luke-jr> at least optionally
3411 2011-05-25 19:24:26 <luke-jr> actually, I'd force it
3412 2011-05-25 19:24:27 <SerajewelKS> ah, it won't ever
3413 2011-05-25 19:24:40 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
3414 2011-05-25 19:24:40 <SerajewelKS> changing 1 to 0 in ListTransactions() will do it
3415 2011-05-25 19:24:40 <luke-jr> since a reorg can mean a previously confirmed txn should be shown as 0 confirms
3416 2011-05-25 19:24:47 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3417 2011-05-25 19:25:15 <luke-jr> possibly even orphaned, though I don't know how that would be shown
3418 2011-05-25 19:25:20 <SerajewelKS> when i came up with the idea for the command, the goal was to show only transactions in a block
3419 2011-05-25 19:25:27 <luke-jr> since gavin designed the orphan-visibility thing wrong
3420 2011-05-25 19:26:23 <diki> tomorrow we are going to see some bleach action
3421 2011-05-25 19:28:45 <SerajewelKS> the idea is to allow systems that need to poll bitcoind for new transactions (for importing into another database) to do so with one command -- get the new transactions as well as the latest block ID. then process the transactions and save the block ID somewhere. next time, you supply the block ID, and repeat.
3422 2011-05-25 19:28:48 <sipa> BlueMatt: pong?
3423 2011-05-25 19:29:33 marlowe has joined
3424 2011-05-25 19:29:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: wondered if you were interested in pulling yet another translation update...I wrapped up the spanish one from blackymetal into a mo generated by me, and reordered the stuff so that the commit diff looks nice...its in my esfix2 branch
3425 2011-05-25 19:30:21 <BlueMatt> specifically https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/00af90ab3c474bc2fbe34c1f9a1d85e8bc1abbf0
3426 2011-05-25 19:30:23 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3427 2011-05-25 19:30:28 <BlueMatt> otherwise, I can put it in a pull request
3428 2011-05-25 19:30:35 Teslah has joined
3429 2011-05-25 19:30:37 <BlueMatt> just wondered if you wanted to pull it and not bother...
3430 2011-05-25 19:32:15 grbgout has quit (Quit: leaving)
3431 2011-05-25 19:32:35 ninjaneo has joined
3432 2011-05-25 19:33:15 <ninjaneo> omgz i was able to pull in the monitortx into the 3.22 or whatever current, and got it to compile with g++
3433 2011-05-25 19:33:16 <sipa> BlueMatt: pull req is easier
3434 2011-05-25 19:33:17 <sipa> :)
3435 2011-05-25 19:33:50 <sipa> just realized my own small change fix was wrong :S
3436 2011-05-25 19:33:55 <ninjaneo> had to throw std:: and boost:: in a bunch of places and diable the USE_SSL, and replace foreach with BOOST_FOREACH
3437 2011-05-25 19:34:48 <diki> so how many people are actually developing .22?
3438 2011-05-25 19:35:04 <BlueMatt> diki: anyone with a pull request?
3439 2011-05-25 19:35:18 <diki> imo it should have been released like a week ago if not more
3440 2011-05-25 19:35:25 <BlueMatt> probably 90% of the commits are translation updates at this point
3441 2011-05-25 19:35:39 <diki> i'd rather we have language.pak
3442 2011-05-25 19:35:41 <BlueMatt> diki: there are still complaints about odd cpu usage...I dont want it released
3443 2011-05-25 19:35:54 <BlueMatt> (as it might be a problem with my building)
3444 2011-05-25 19:35:57 <diki> i have never seen nor heard of high cpu usage
3445 2011-05-25 19:36:06 <ninjaneo> i had it eatup 180mb of ram and hit like +50% cpu
3446 2011-05-25 19:36:08 <BlueMatt> Ive seen 2 complaints on the forum
3447 2011-05-25 19:36:15 <BlueMatt> ninjaneo: oh you had it too?
3448 2011-05-25 19:36:16 <diki> but the ram usage is a problem
3449 2011-05-25 19:36:18 <BlueMatt> on win7?
3450 2011-05-25 19:36:21 <ninjaneo> no linux
3451 2011-05-25 19:36:27 <BlueMatt> hmmm...
3452 2011-05-25 19:36:28 <erbs> coins good
3453 2011-05-25 19:36:31 <BlueMatt> your build or mine?
3454 2011-05-25 19:36:43 <ninjaneo> mine
3455 2011-05-25 19:36:54 <BlueMatt> oh, nvm...probably your issue then :)
3456 2011-05-25 19:36:58 <ninjaneo> ha
3457 2011-05-25 19:37:06 <ninjaneo> i doubt that
3458 2011-05-25 19:37:11 <ninjaneo> all i did was use the makefile.unix
3459 2011-05-25 19:37:12 <diki> Bluematt is there anyway you can optimize memory usage? it pulls like 70-80
3460 2011-05-25 19:37:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: 265
3461 2011-05-25 19:37:20 <BlueMatt> diki: not really
3462 2011-05-25 19:37:48 <BlueMatt> though maybe you can debug it
3463 2011-05-25 19:38:03 <diki> watashi?
3464 2011-05-25 19:38:03 <BlueMatt> I dont really have the time and 70-80 meg doesnt put it high on the priorities list
3465 2011-05-25 19:38:07 <CIA-103> bitcoin: ariel master * r00af90a / (2 files): Updated spanish translation - http://bit.ly/mjEKz5
3466 2011-05-25 19:38:08 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Pieter Wuille master * re426776 / (2 files):
3467 2011-05-25 19:38:08 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #265 from TheBlueMatt/esfix2
3468 2011-05-25 19:38:08 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Updated spanish translation - http://bit.ly/kHSnMk
3469 2011-05-25 19:40:09 <diki> my crappy satio shuts down when i plug in my ear speakers(headphones or whatever you prefer to call the
3470 2011-05-25 19:40:14 <diki> *them
3471 2011-05-25 19:40:39 <diki> crap phone, crap Sony
3472 2011-05-25 19:44:06 <ninjaneo> BlueMatt, im positive that you didn't use any flags to build that somehow prevented the code from acting in a similar fashion, to produce the 50% cpu usage and > 180mb ram
3473 2011-05-25 19:44:49 <BlueMatt> ninjaneo: probably bad libraries, improper compile of wx or something
3474 2011-05-25 19:44:52 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: looks like a -rc5 with sipa's fix
3475 2011-05-25 19:44:54 <BlueMatt> if you can replicate it, come back
3476 2011-05-25 19:44:57 <ninjaneo> meh it was bitcoind
3477 2011-05-25 19:45:02 <ninjaneo> but sure dismiss the issue
3478 2011-05-25 19:45:20 <BlueMatt> ninjaneo: I dont mean to, but if its not replicateable...nothing anyone can do about it
3479 2011-05-25 19:45:32 sec^nd has joined
3480 2011-05-25 19:45:34 <erbs> i just mined 50 with Krad Miner
3481 2011-05-25 19:45:35 <ninjaneo> it hasn't happened again yet =/
3482 2011-05-25 19:45:57 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: hmmm...I dont really see much point in just keeping releasing these rcs with just translation fixes...
3483 2011-05-25 19:45:57 <sec^nd> does the generate coin option still work in the current bitcoin interface for windows ?
3484 2011-05-25 19:46:08 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I say wait till we get actual code diffs, or go to release
3485 2011-05-25 19:46:19 <BlueMatt> but I want to hear back on the cpu usage on win7 before release
3486 2011-05-25 19:47:07 <ninjaneo> I got the MonitorTX code by gavin anderson working in g++....
3487 2011-05-25 19:47:19 fimp has joined
3488 2011-05-25 19:47:20 <BlueMatt> andresen, not anderson
3489 2011-05-25 19:47:28 <ninjaneo> that guy ;)
3490 2011-05-25 19:47:30 <BlueMatt> sec^nd: no
3491 2011-05-25 19:47:35 <diki> *that* guy
3492 2011-05-25 19:47:37 zamgo has joined
3493 2011-05-25 19:47:45 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
3494 2011-05-25 19:47:49 <BlueMatt> sec^nd: it was removed for a reason though...might try cpuminer or other remote miner which offer better performance
3495 2011-05-25 19:47:52 <diki> or more specifically *HIM*
3496 2011-05-25 19:48:03 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3497 2011-05-25 19:48:04 qwerty1793 has joined
3498 2011-05-25 19:48:08 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3499 2011-05-25 19:48:13 Marcel has joined
3500 2011-05-25 19:48:33 <jgarzik> BlueMattBot: are you talking about sipa's fix? he put it into a pull request. regardless, it is an issue that is holding up the release. we cannot release with that TX fee bug.
3501 2011-05-25 19:48:34 <BlueMattBot> jgarzik did you mean me? Unknown command 'are'
3502 2011-05-25 19:48:35 <BlueMattBot> Use 'BlueMattBot: help' to get help!
3503 2011-05-25 19:48:45 <sipa> haha
3504 2011-05-25 19:48:45 BlueMatt has joined
3505 2011-05-25 19:48:52 sec^nd has left ("WeeChat 0.3.5")
3506 2011-05-25 19:48:58 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: are you talking about sipa's fix? he put it into a pull request. regardless, it is an issue that is holding up the release. we cannot release with that TX fee bug.
3507 2011-05-25 19:49:01 <ninjaneo> http://pastebin.com/wwtDCErJ is the git diff if someone cares
3508 2011-05-25 19:49:02 <BlueMatt> wtf...x just crashed...:(
3509 2011-05-25 19:49:28 diki has quit ()
3510 2011-05-25 19:49:31 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: oh sorry, you mean that pull req patch...I thought you meant his 2 translations commits
3511 2011-05-25 19:50:05 <sipa> i hope i have covered all cases now in the fix
3512 2011-05-25 19:50:17 <ninjaneo> its mostly namespace issues
3513 2011-05-25 19:50:21 <sipa> anyone want to send me 0.02 testcoins?
3514 2011-05-25 19:50:23 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: hm, also a fairly minor change...Id rather wait for a response on the cpu stuff then move ahead with one final rc and release
3515 2011-05-25 19:51:00 <ninjaneo> sipa, sure gimme an address
3516 2011-05-25 19:51:26 <ninjaneo> i have a couple thousand test coins
3517 2011-05-25 19:51:28 <sipa> mkiQ1M1SYNC1kYPHmo4qfLxuSzvuChxVys
3518 2011-05-25 19:51:43 <ninjaneo> do you just want .02 i can send more
3519 2011-05-25 19:51:48 <LiveFreeOrDie201> USGOX price looks weird yesterday
3520 2011-05-25 19:51:53 <WakiMiko_> send them all to the faucet :D
3521 2011-05-25 19:51:55 <sipa> preferably 0.02
3522 2011-05-25 19:51:58 <ninjaneo> k
3523 2011-05-25 19:52:04 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: "cpu stuff"?
3524 2011-05-25 19:52:10 <LiveFreeOrDie201> It looks like someone keeps buying and then getting shorted or something
3525 2011-05-25 19:52:22 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: 2 complaints on the forum thread about high cpu usage on win7
3526 2011-05-25 19:52:34 <sipa> BlueMatt: after fully downloading the block chain?
3527 2011-05-25 19:52:43 <BlueMatt> after starting miner
3528 2011-05-25 19:52:46 <BlueMatt> (rpc miner)
3529 2011-05-25 19:52:49 ezl has joined
3530 2011-05-25 19:52:54 <BlueMatt> high bitcoin cpu usage
3531 2011-05-25 19:53:07 <BlueMatt> could be verification, but I dont know...I still dont fully trust my builds
3532 2011-05-25 19:53:27 <jgarzik> weird
3533 2011-05-25 19:53:29 <BlueMatt> (they are slightly larger than equivalent ones built on win so...)
3534 2011-05-25 19:53:35 <LiveFreeOrDie201> My HP netbook gets all of 250kH/s. It will take like 2 years to find a block....
3535 2011-05-25 19:53:52 <BlueMatt> LiveFreeOrDie201: yea...might just give up (or pool if you want to lose a ton on power)
3536 2011-05-25 19:54:05 Xenland has joined
3537 2011-05-25 19:54:08 <LiveFreeOrDie201> It was just for fun. slower than I thought it would be :(
3538 2011-05-25 19:54:20 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3539 2011-05-25 19:54:20 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 250
3540 2011-05-25 19:54:20 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.51,"low":7.0015,"vol":33437,"buy":7.4,"sell":7.4479,"last":7.4479}}
3541 2011-05-25 19:54:21 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 250 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 132 years, 52 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 59 minutes, and 16 seconds
3542 2011-05-25 19:54:30 <sipa> LiveFreeOrDie201: 2 years? ...
3543 2011-05-25 19:54:31 <Xenland> Whats up chat, Im having trouble with "sudo make" for pushpool
3544 2011-05-25 19:54:48 <Xenland> i had to install jasson but after that it works fine up until now
3545 2011-05-25 19:54:49 <LiveFreeOrDie201> actually lets find out from the BTC calculator...
3546 2011-05-25 19:55:06 <gjs278> btc calculator tells you how many coins per day now for some reason
3547 2011-05-25 19:55:15 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 250
3548 2011-05-25 19:55:15 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 250 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 0.00102997308553 BTC per day and 4.29155452305e-05 BTC per hour.
3549 2011-05-25 19:55:22 <LiveFreeOrDie201> ok it will take a LOT longer than that
3550 2011-05-25 19:55:53 <sipa> 2 years would be a 16MH/s
3551 2011-05-25 19:56:16 <LiveFreeOrDie201> umm... it would take approx 140 years to find a block at 250kH/s lol
3552 2011-05-25 19:56:27 <sipa> 21:47:33 <@gribble> The average time to generate a block at 250 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 132 years, 52 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 59 minutes, and 16 seconds
3553 2011-05-25 19:56:57 <LiveFreeOrDie201> at this difficulty
3554 2011-05-25 19:56:58 <zamgo> ;;bc,gen 12345
3555 2011-05-25 19:57:00 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 12345 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 0.0508600709636 BTC per day and 0.00211916962348 BTC per hour.
3556 2011-05-25 19:57:13 <zamgo> ;;bc,gen 1
3557 2011-05-25 19:57:14 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 4.11989234213e-06 BTC per day and 1.71662180922e-07 BTC per hour.
3558 2011-05-25 19:57:49 <LiveFreeOrDie201> ;;bc, gen 300000
3559 2011-05-25 19:57:49 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
3560 2011-05-25 19:57:57 <LiveFreeOrDie201> ;;bc,gen 300000
3561 2011-05-25 19:57:58 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 244139.48158254 , is 1.23596770264 BTC per day and 0.0514986542766 BTC per hour.
3562 2011-05-25 19:58:23 <LiveFreeOrDie201> 300Mh/s = about $9.50 per day, not bad
3563 2011-05-25 19:58:54 vorlov has joined
3564 2011-05-25 19:59:45 <zamgo> something happening with testnet?
3565 2011-05-25 20:00:03 <zamgo> or is it just me seeing all transactions unconfirmed now on testnet
3566 2011-05-25 20:00:29 <ninjaneo> Xenland, i actually was able to compile pushpool what error are you running into
3567 2011-05-25 20:00:56 <sipa> can someone mine on testnet?
3568 2011-05-25 20:00:57 <pwrcycle> ninjaneo: what OS did you compile pushpool on?
3569 2011-05-25 20:01:00 <Xenland> ninjaneo: okay im running ubuntu, and i got pushpool "./configure" to work
3570 2011-05-25 20:01:19 <ninjaneo> gentoo
3571 2011-05-25 20:01:36 <jgarzik> Xenland: you should never use "sudo make" only "make ; sudo make install"
3572 2011-05-25 20:01:45 <ninjaneo> ^ words of wisdom
3573 2011-05-25 20:01:55 <ninjaneo> sipa, you need someone to make some new blocks or waht?
3574 2011-05-25 20:01:59 <Xenland> lol i knew i was going to hear that advice
3575 2011-05-25 20:02:04 <Xenland> but either way it gives the same error
3576 2011-05-25 20:02:07 <BlueMatt> sipa: I went ahead and pull requested wx2.8 despite your issues...Im not sure but maybe those will work themselves out over time
3577 2011-05-25 20:02:13 <Xenland> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8707.msg141955#msg141955
3578 2011-05-25 20:02:20 <Xenland> that thread has the full error output
3579 2011-05-25 20:02:30 <ninjaneo> k
3580 2011-05-25 20:02:42 <jgarzik> Xenland: what version?
3581 2011-05-25 20:02:57 <Xenland> jansson-2.0.1
3582 2011-05-25 20:02:58 <sipa> ninjaneo: yeah, i fear there's not really time to test on testnet
3583 2011-05-25 20:03:06 <Xenland> against the master pushpool file
3584 2011-05-25 20:03:30 <BlueMatt> god 0.4.0 is getting bigger and bigger, at this point its gonna be half of bitcoin rewritten
3585 2011-05-25 20:03:41 <BlueMatt> and half of the patches will not apply cleanly on each other...
3586 2011-05-25 20:03:51 mtrlt_ has joined
3587 2011-05-25 20:04:12 <jgarzik> Xenland: (1) what version of pushpool are you trying to compile? (2) there is no such thing as a master pushpool file
3588 2011-05-25 20:04:27 <ninjaneo> sipa, my friend with the mining power is afk =/ 100+ blocks to confirm a block on testnet seems silly
3589 2011-05-25 20:04:56 <jgarzik> ninjaneo: standard bitcoin rules
3590 2011-05-25 20:05:02 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3591 2011-05-25 20:05:02 <Xenland> 1) i went to this page and downloaded master as tar.gz:http://www.gitorious.net/bitcoin/pushpool/commits/master
3592 2011-05-25 20:05:13 <ninjaneo> yeah, i guess it wouldn't make sense to have them be different
3593 2011-05-25 20:05:23 <Xenland> 2) i don't understand how this version system of git works
3594 2011-05-25 20:05:36 <jgarzik> Xenland: never build from git, unless you really know what you're doing
3595 2011-05-25 20:05:42 <jgarzik> Xenland: build from tarball: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8707.0
3596 2011-05-25 20:06:04 <jgarzik> I wish I could remove that damn "download tar.gz" button from github
3597 2011-05-25 20:06:06 <Xenland> i bet thats why it seems so much more difficult then to make install anything else
3598 2011-05-25 20:06:35 <ninjaneo> someone show gavin andresen this http://pastebin.com/wwtDCErJ
3599 2011-05-25 20:06:55 <jgarzik> github .tar.gz is created directly from git archive (bad). real .tar.gz is created by autotools, properly compiling configure script with all dependencies present.
3600 2011-05-25 20:07:15 <BlueMatt> ninjaneo: pull request it yourself
3601 2011-05-25 20:07:32 <Xenland> okay i got past make this time, should i "sudo make install"
3602 2011-05-25 20:07:43 <ninjaneo> eh im too unfamiliar with the whole procedure there
3603 2011-05-25 20:07:53 Kiba has joined
3604 2011-05-25 20:07:59 <BlueMatt> can we get pull 262 and 254 closed as they have been pulled?
3605 2011-05-25 20:07:59 <sipa> ninjaneo: if you're willing to learn, it's very interesting
3606 2011-05-25 20:08:12 <ninjaneo> ill look into it i guess
3607 2011-05-25 20:08:23 <ninjaneo> ima eat breakfast first =p
3608 2011-05-25 20:08:35 <Xenland> now im getting the error /usr/loca/sbin/pushpoold : permission denied
3609 2011-05-25 20:08:43 <Xenland> make install or sudo make install does the same thing
3610 2011-05-25 20:10:54 <Xenland> wait i think i got it to work
3611 2011-05-25 20:11:05 grbgout has joined
3612 2011-05-25 20:11:07 <BlueMatt> sipa: can you also close 254?
3613 2011-05-25 20:11:11 <BlueMatt> or was that jgarzik?
3614 2011-05-25 20:11:58 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: closed
3615 2011-05-25 20:12:07 <BlueMatt> thanks
3616 2011-05-25 20:12:33 <sipa> anyone want 0.01 BTC?
3617 2011-05-25 20:12:40 <BlueMatt> why?
3618 2011-05-25 20:12:50 <sipa> i want to test my fix :)
3619 2011-05-25 20:12:59 <BlueMatt> send it to faucet
3620 2011-05-25 20:13:10 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3621 2011-05-25 20:13:23 <sipa> right
3622 2011-05-25 20:13:24 <Xenland> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8707.msg142039#msg142039 <-- To my error if anybody is intrested in assisting
3623 2011-05-25 20:13:52 <sipa> ok, seems to work
3624 2011-05-25 20:14:21 <BlueMatt> In that case, looks good to commit from me
3625 2011-05-25 20:15:08 <Xenland> somthing about "nothing to be done with install-data-am
3626 2011-05-25 20:16:40 <zamgo> any PHP libraries for reading block database?
3627 2011-05-25 20:16:41 <zamgo> and/or
3628 2011-05-25 20:16:43 <zamgo> or for reading wallet.dat
3629 2011-05-25 20:17:10 <erbs> goes gavin irc?
3630 2011-05-25 20:17:14 marlowe has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
3631 2011-05-25 20:17:29 <BlueMatt> erbs: all the time, but hes on vacation atm
3632 2011-05-25 20:17:35 <erbs> or is he only appearing in directv commercials now as an opulent russian billionaire
3633 2011-05-25 20:17:40 <erbs> cool
3634 2011-05-25 20:17:42 <glitch-mod> Would companies pay to use computational power on the scale of what is being used to mine bitcoin?
3635 2011-05-25 20:17:53 <JFK911> compute4cash is doing just that
3636 2011-05-25 20:18:00 <DiabloD3> glitch-mod: they do, its called a cloud.
3637 2011-05-25 20:18:17 <DiabloD3> erbs: dont forget the tiny giraffe
3638 2011-05-25 20:18:57 <zamgo> so my tesnet transactions are all today showing up as 0/unconfirmed... when they all should be at least 6/confirmed
3639 2011-05-25 20:19:00 <erbs> haha DiabloD3
3640 2011-05-25 20:19:10 <sipa> i hope enough miners switch to 0.3.22 soon
3641 2011-05-25 20:19:10 <zamgo> deleted database, had client download it all again, and same error
3642 2011-05-25 20:19:20 <DiabloD3> whats with 0.3.22?
3643 2011-05-25 20:19:27 <zamgo> who's playing with testnet?
3644 2011-05-25 20:19:31 <sipa> DiabloD3: changes minimum fee rules
3645 2011-05-25 20:19:47 <DiabloD3> good or bad?
3646 2011-05-25 20:19:55 <sipa> i just did a tx from a recent 0.02 output to a 0.01 output and a 0.0095 output, with 0.0005 fee
3647 2011-05-25 20:20:05 <erbs> well someone needs to come up with a way to merge protein folding or weather simulation and bitcoin.. kind of hard tho since independentl verifying a proof of work quickly would be tough
3648 2011-05-25 20:20:06 <sipa> obviously that is invalid according to the current fee policy
3649 2011-05-25 20:20:11 <sipa> so the network drops it
3650 2011-05-25 20:20:15 <gjs278> this DiabloD3 is an imposter, the real one is Diablo-D3 don't answer his questions!!!!
3651 2011-05-25 20:20:23 DiabloD3 is now known as Diablo-D3
3652 2011-05-25 20:20:25 <Diablo-D3> ahem.
3653 2011-05-25 20:20:32 <glitch-mod> So could a pool operator sell computational power if they wanted to? Who could use it?
3654 2011-05-25 20:21:01 <gjs278> nobodys clients would be good for anything except getting 1 share of sha256
3655 2011-05-25 20:21:31 <gjs278> it would be easier to just skim off the top and sell the bitcoins if you really wanted money
3656 2011-05-25 20:22:01 Tritonio has joined
3657 2011-05-25 20:22:35 <glitch-mod> I mean if a pool operator wanted to diversify not anything shady. But if a modifided client was used could it be made to say... render video?
3658 2011-05-25 20:22:52 <sipa> BlueMatt, jgarzik: maybe we should try to convince some pool operators to switch before 0.3.22 is released?
3659 2011-05-25 20:23:18 <BlueMatt> ArtForzZz: luke-jr [Tycho] ^
3660 2011-05-25 20:23:32 <Xenland> what does it mean when nothing to do with install-data-am?
3661 2011-05-25 20:23:32 <luke-jr> sipa: why?
3662 2011-05-25 20:23:44 <sipa> doesn't apply to luke-jr - he already has his own rules
3663 2011-05-25 20:23:56 <BlueMatt> ah, forgot about that sorry
3664 2011-05-25 20:23:58 <luke-jr> sipa: 0.3.22 will still *send* 0.01 min fee, AFAIK
3665 2011-05-25 20:24:02 <luke-jr> sipa: anything else is stupid
3666 2011-05-25 20:24:09 <sipa> luke-jr: no, 0.0005
3667 2011-05-25 20:24:13 <luke-jr> sipa: that's a bug then
3668 2011-05-25 20:24:25 <sipa> ...
3669 2011-05-25 20:24:26 <luke-jr> even if every miner was running 0.3.22, it wouldn't work
3670 2011-05-25 20:24:35 <BlueMatt> wait it does? I thought we had voted against that...until the next release
3671 2011-05-25 20:24:46 jeremid has joined
3672 2011-05-25 20:25:04 <sipa> BlueMatt: against what?
3673 2011-05-25 20:25:10 <luke-jr> sipa: the transactions won't even be *relayed*
3674 2011-05-25 20:25:18 <BlueMatt> sends 0.01 fee, just accepts lower as well
3675 2011-05-25 20:25:46 <zamgo> ./bitcoind -testnet -printblocktree
3676 2011-05-25 20:26:09 <comboy> are there any plans to make bitcoin work without irc?
3677 2011-05-25 20:26:19 <Niedar> it does work without irc
3678 2011-05-25 20:26:28 <Pilate> lol
3679 2011-05-25 20:26:31 <comboy> but only if you provide nodes manualy?
3680 2011-05-25 20:26:48 <sipa> jgarzik: your take?
3681 2011-05-25 20:27:10 <jgarzik> sipa: on?
3682 2011-05-25 20:27:22 fimp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3683 2011-05-25 20:27:40 fimp has joined
3684 2011-05-25 20:27:49 <sipa> jgarzik: transactions by 0.3.22rc now using the 0.0005 fee with sub-0.01 outputs will not be relayed by almost anyone on the network
3685 2011-05-25 20:27:51 <zamgo> ahh..chain reorg on testnet?
3686 2011-05-25 20:28:43 <jgarzik> sipa: yep. same issue when we introduced sendmany. pool operators tend to upgrade pretty rapidly, but it is definitely an issue.
3687 2011-05-25 20:29:01 <erbs> chain chain chain
3688 2011-05-25 20:29:05 <erbs> chain of orgs
3689 2011-05-25 20:29:18 <luke-jr> jgarzik: pool operator upgrading isn't the problme
3690 2011-05-25 20:29:22 <sipa> BlueMatt apparently assumes that we first change the rules for acceptance, and in another version change the default behaviour
3691 2011-05-25 20:29:31 <luke-jr> jgarzik: and since only pool operators use sendmany, that wasn't a problem for it
3692 2011-05-25 20:29:42 <sipa> i haven't been following the discussion about it - but it sounds reasonable
3693 2011-05-25 20:29:59 <luke-jr> jgarzik: THIS problem means sending basically *won't work at all* for *anyone* until *most of the network* upgrades
3694 2011-05-25 20:30:18 <jeremid> maybe ssomeone here can help me.. if i'm mining, do i need to setup ntp on my rack? http://culubas.blogspot.com/2011/05/timejacking-bitcoin_802.html
3695 2011-05-25 20:30:23 <luke-jr> (except for no-fee txns, but that's beside the point)
3696 2011-05-25 20:30:42 <SerajewelKS> all my testnet blocks are being orphaned
3697 2011-05-25 20:30:47 <SerajewelKS> someone is mining really fucking fast
3698 2011-05-25 20:31:06 <SerajewelKS> i'm talking blocks mined in the last 10 minutes are orphaned already
3699 2011-05-25 20:31:07 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, is that not was in the current repo, and did your pull request break from that?
3700 2011-05-25 20:31:12 <erbs> whats the difficulty on testnet
3701 2011-05-25 20:31:24 <BlueMatt> (sorry haven't been paying too much attention...kinda distracted)
3702 2011-05-25 20:31:33 <erbs> seems weird ppl will put lots of cycles on testnet isntead of the real net
3703 2011-05-25 20:31:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: i think 0.0005 fees were possible before my patch
3704 2011-05-25 20:31:52 <jgarzik> luke-jr: no some TX's would see delays, that's all
3705 2011-05-25 20:31:53 <BlueMatt> possible is fine...default not so much
3706 2011-05-25 20:32:02 <jgarzik> sipa: yep
3707 2011-05-25 20:32:09 <jgarzik> sipa: just not treated as a sufficient fee
3708 2011-05-25 20:32:20 bytepimp has joined
3709 2011-05-25 20:32:21 <sipa> not treated as sufficient fee == dropped
3710 2011-05-25 20:32:41 <jgarzik> sipa: the fee still went to the miner, just it didn't get you out of the free tx area
3711 2011-05-25 20:33:00 <jgarzik> so I wouldn't say dropped
3712 2011-05-25 20:33:16 <SerajewelKS> jeez
3713 2011-05-25 20:33:17 <luke-jr> jgarzik: no, this isn't about priority, it's about being relayed *at all*
3714 2011-05-25 20:33:21 <SerajewelKS> more orphaning
3715 2011-05-25 20:33:43 <luke-jr> jgarzik: it will never get to the miners
3716 2011-05-25 20:33:46 <bytepimp> Hello all! I received a donation of bitcoins today for the first time. The transaction says unconfirmed. Is there anything I need to do to confirm it? if so what? Thanks!
3717 2011-05-25 20:33:47 <SerajewelKS> it sounds like someone is mining on testnet but won't accept new blocks from anyone else. and since he's >50% of the network, he gets to exclude everyone else from mining.
3718 2011-05-25 20:33:48 <sipa> jgarzik: the test tx i created now (after my patch) isn't realyed at all
3719 2011-05-25 20:33:52 <BlueMatt> SerajewelKS: that is the point of testnet...testing
3720 2011-05-25 20:33:55 <erbs> bytepimp, wait about an hour...
3721 2011-05-25 20:34:05 <SerajewelKS> BlueMatt: testing an attack, or what?
3722 2011-05-25 20:34:13 <BlueMatt> sure, or whatever you want to test
3723 2011-05-25 20:34:22 <luke-jr> lol
3724 2011-05-25 20:34:27 <bytepimp> ok thanks erbs!
3725 2011-05-25 20:34:30 <jgarzik> sipa: your client resends
3726 2011-05-25 20:34:39 <sipa> sure it will
3727 2011-05-25 20:34:43 <erbs> SerajewelKS: weird, why would he do that...
3728 2011-05-25 20:34:51 <SerajewelKS> erbs: shrug
3729 2011-05-25 20:35:02 <erbs> maybe he thinks hes mining real coin..
3730 2011-05-25 20:35:02 <BlueMatt> erbs: to test it? see if it works?
3731 2011-05-25 20:35:14 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3732 2011-05-25 20:35:17 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
3733 2011-05-25 20:35:17 <bytepimp> By the way, I created a bunch of bitcoin desktop wallpapers, which you can download for free here: http://carbonism.deviantart.com/ Thanks!
3734 2011-05-25 20:35:20 <sipa> but it will keep resending until a significant part of the network upgraded (or i immediately connect to a miner who i know will accept it)
3735 2011-05-25 20:35:23 <ArtForz> duh, to see what happens.
3736 2011-05-25 20:35:25 <BlueMatt> no they would have had to specifically redesign their bitcoind to do that, so they know what they are doing
3737 2011-05-25 20:35:57 <SerajewelKS> i've mined 11 blocks on testnet in the last hour, all of them orphaned
3738 2011-05-25 20:35:59 <erbs> ArtForz: why waste cpu cycles when you can do the same thing on the real network? (and get paid)
3739 2011-05-25 20:36:03 <ArtForz> right now you'll need about 1.5Ghps to beat the testnet mining cartel ;)
3740 2011-05-25 20:36:14 <erbs> oh shit.. thats like one gpu
3741 2011-05-25 20:36:19 <BlueMatt> bytepimp: cool, chaning now...
3742 2011-05-25 20:36:27 <sipa> erbs: at least two
3743 2011-05-25 20:36:27 <ArtForz> 2 5970s really
3744 2011-05-25 20:36:34 <erbs> oh ok 2 hehe
3745 2011-05-25 20:36:40 <bytepimp> Thanks!
3746 2011-05-25 20:36:42 <sipa> and that's actually 4 GPU's ;)
3747 2011-05-25 20:36:53 <erbs> fine 2^n
3748 2011-05-25 20:37:38 <BlueMatt> bytepimp: do you have a higher res version?
3749 2011-05-25 20:37:44 <bytepimp> One other question, now that I received a donation at my address, a new address has been generated. If people send to the old address, will I still receive the donation? or do I need to publish a new address every time I recieve a new donation?
3750 2011-05-25 20:37:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes
3751 2011-05-25 20:37:53 <sipa> eh
3752 2011-05-25 20:37:55 <sipa> bytepimp: yes
3753 2011-05-25 20:37:59 <sipa> you keep all former addresses
3754 2011-05-25 20:38:05 <sipa> go check your address book
3755 2011-05-25 20:38:27 <bytepimp> Ok thanks!
3756 2011-05-25 20:38:54 <jgarzik> sipa: not quite. it will keep resending until at least one of your N connections has upgraded (and so on)
3757 2011-05-25 20:39:04 <bytepimp> @BlueMatt All I have is what's currently on the deviantart site. What resolution would you like? I can create a higher one for you.
3758 2011-05-25 20:39:14 mtrlt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3759 2011-05-25 20:39:17 <sipa> good point
3760 2011-05-25 20:39:30 <BlueMatt> bytepimp: Im on 1920x1080, if you do please
3761 2011-05-25 20:39:39 <bytepimp> ok... which one?
3762 2011-05-25 20:39:49 <BlueMatt> red flat
3763 2011-05-25 20:39:58 <jgarzik> sipa: so 'significant' is not required. nevertheless, I do agree that it is a usability issue out of the gate.
3764 2011-05-25 20:40:23 * jgarzik just wanted to tone down the luke-jr panic first ;)
3765 2011-05-25 20:40:39 <bytepimp> roger... give me about 15-30 minutes. Check the site in an hour if you don't hear back from me.
3766 2011-05-25 20:40:43 <sipa> i believe my patch now handles exactly the case of transactions that will not be relayed at all - so either we apply it, and hope people switch quickly, or we don't and find a temporary solution
3767 2011-05-25 20:40:52 <luke-jr> jgarzik: and that 1 of N connections has a peer that has upgraded
3768 2011-05-25 20:40:54 <luke-jr> jgarzik: and so on
3769 2011-05-25 20:41:06 <ArtForz> ok, stopped the testnet 1-man cartel ;)
3770 2011-05-25 20:41:18 <erbs> lol ArtForz..
3771 2011-05-25 20:41:20 <nanotube> sipa: jgarzik: anything ever happen on my proposal to take out the "your address" field from the gui, and just leave the address book? iirc there was some agreement on this on channel, and tcatm (?) made up some mockups...
3772 2011-05-25 20:41:35 <ArtForz> also, I mainly wanted to see what happens to tx in a 300+ block chain reorg
3773 2011-05-25 20:41:49 <sipa> i agree 'your address' is confusing
3774 2011-05-25 20:41:51 <nanotube> ArtForz: so what happened? what are the results of your test?
3775 2011-05-25 20:41:53 <jgarzik> nanotube: dunno, it's sorta down on the priority list
3776 2011-05-25 20:41:59 <ArtForz> interesting
3777 2011-05-25 20:42:00 <erbs> oh makes sense... i thought someone was just mining for fun
3778 2011-05-25 20:42:12 <sipa> it seems UI changes are the things no one wants to tackle
3779 2011-05-25 20:42:27 <luke-jr> another option someone mentioned last time, was to automatically adjust the min-send-fee when it saw N peers that were relaying it
3780 2011-05-25 20:42:30 <ArtForz> first glance, a lot of still-valid tx were not resent
3781 2011-05-25 20:42:30 <SerajewelKS> ArtForz: you know you can do that on your own private difficulty-1 testnet, right?
3782 2011-05-25 20:42:36 <luke-jr> assuming it signified some overall adoption ratio
3783 2011-05-25 20:42:41 <ArtForz> SerajewelKS: but where's the fun in that
3784 2011-05-25 20:42:52 <BlueMatt> sipa: meh, Ill probably go do those tomorrow...or at least I was planning on it soon, but unless there is a chance of that for 0.3.22, I didnt feel rushed
3785 2011-05-25 20:43:07 <sipa> "those" ?
3786 2011-05-25 20:43:26 <jgarzik> Gavin and I would probably love to do nothing better than delete the GUI entirely. Might do that long term. Big pre-requisite: turn codebase into 'libbitcoin', to enable external GUIs.
3787 2011-05-25 20:43:32 necrodearia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3788 2011-05-25 20:43:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: gui fixes
3789 2011-05-25 20:44:03 <sipa> jgarzik: seen my CWallet class patch?
3790 2011-05-25 20:44:10 <luke-jr> jgarzik: you mean replace JSON-RPC with a proper client-usable protocol ;)
3791 2011-05-25 20:44:15 <jgarzik> sipa: glanced at first; quick scan was positive
3792 2011-05-25 20:44:18 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I feel like Im the only one who isnt deathly afraid of the gui...
3793 2011-05-25 20:44:34 <luke-jr> a 'libbitcoin' would force clients to use C++-compatible languages, and not be network-transparent
3794 2011-05-25 20:44:36 <jgarzik> luke-jr: a libbitcoin would enable anyone to replace JSON-RPC with their favorite protocol
3795 2011-05-25 20:45:01 <luke-jr> jgarzik: yeah, it's a step, but doesn't solve the problem entirely
3796 2011-05-25 20:45:05 <sipa> luke-jr: personally, i would wrap it within a C API layer, and provide bindings for a few popular high-level languages
3797 2011-05-25 20:45:10 <zamgo> oooh libbitcoin
3798 2011-05-25 20:45:12 <zamgo> nice
3799 2011-05-25 20:45:24 <sipa> C++ is easily wrappable in C, and C can be used from +- anywhere
3800 2011-05-25 20:45:24 <luke-jr> sipa: that still requires it local, and has some overhead
3801 2011-05-25 20:45:25 <zamgo> don't force clients to use any language
3802 2011-05-25 20:45:26 <BlueMatt> pipedream...
3803 2011-05-25 20:45:39 <luke-jr> sipa: a protocol works fine, at much lower cost âº
3804 2011-05-25 20:45:40 <BlueMatt> more important things...like thin clients
3805 2011-05-25 20:45:42 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: being a kernel hacker I'm just anti-GUI :) an old command line codger
3806 2011-05-25 20:45:43 <luke-jr> ie, one binding
3807 2011-05-25 20:45:52 <erbs> the gui is awesome
3808 2011-05-25 20:45:52 <jgarzik> give me a serial terminal, or give me death
3809 2011-05-25 20:45:55 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: a protocol enables thin clients
3810 2011-05-25 20:45:59 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I dont like gui either...but to some degree its necessary
3811 2011-05-25 20:45:59 <zamgo> gui's are were the money is at
3812 2011-05-25 20:46:12 <jgarzik> I'm probably the only one who still uses modem programs for something useful
3813 2011-05-25 20:46:14 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: libbitcoin and thin clients are not the same
3814 2011-05-25 20:46:18 <BlueMatt> nor the same work
3815 2011-05-25 20:46:23 mtrlt has joined
3816 2011-05-25 20:46:26 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that's why I said s/libbitcoin/protocol/
3817 2011-05-25 20:46:27 necrodearia has joined
3818 2011-05-25 20:46:29 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: like?
3819 2011-05-25 20:46:37 <jgarzik> kernel debugging
3820 2011-05-25 20:46:38 <sipa> jgarzik: christmas lights?
3821 2011-05-25 20:46:41 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ah, well those are also two completely different things
3822 2011-05-25 20:46:42 <sipa> ah
3823 2011-05-25 20:46:55 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not really ;)
3824 2011-05-25 20:47:06 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well most people dont bother dubuhging kernel
3825 2011-05-25 20:47:13 <BlueMatt> debugging*
3826 2011-05-25 20:47:18 <jgarzik> This brand new MSI motherboard has RS-232 serial and floppy drive connectors on it
3827 2011-05-25 20:47:33 <BlueMatt> floppy???
3828 2011-05-25 20:47:34 <luke-jr> mine has a RS-232 header
3829 2011-05-25 20:47:53 <ArtForz> jgarzik: rs232 is useful, but floppy?!?
3830 2011-05-25 20:47:56 <BlueMatt> serial is still used for some odd applications...but floppy?
3831 2011-05-25 20:47:58 <jgarzik> MSI calls it 'military class'
3832 2011-05-25 20:48:01 <luke-jr> lol
3833 2011-05-25 20:48:02 <jgarzik> I wonder if that is milspec
3834 2011-05-25 20:48:09 <jgarzik> .mil no doubt still uses floppies
3835 2011-05-25 20:48:11 <BlueMatt> wouldnt put it past them
3836 2011-05-25 20:48:13 Mark__ has joined
3837 2011-05-25 20:48:15 <sipa> 360k ones
3838 2011-05-25 20:48:15 <luke-jr> mine is "executive" class
3839 2011-05-25 20:48:16 <ArtForz> more likely "had some free space to throw something cheap on"
3840 2011-05-25 20:49:03 <ArtForz> most modern SBs still contain a fdd controller, so adding it costs... a bunch of traces and a connector
3841 2011-05-25 20:49:13 <erbs> solar powered mining rig
3842 2011-05-25 20:49:36 <bytepimp> @BlueMatt: Enjoy! http://carbonism.deviantart.com/#/d3h7fvz
3843 2011-05-25 20:50:10 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3844 2011-05-25 20:50:18 <BlueMatt> bytepimp: thanks
3845 2011-05-25 20:50:31 <bytepimp> NP :-)
3846 2011-05-25 20:50:39 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
3847 2011-05-25 20:50:45 <luke-jr> ArtForz: they do?
3848 2011-05-25 20:50:47 <luke-jr> mine sure doesn't
3849 2011-05-25 20:50:53 <luke-jr> neither did my old SB
3850 2011-05-25 20:50:54 <ArtForz> luke-jr: which is?
3851 2011-05-25 20:51:01 <luke-jr> old SB = Gigabyte UD3H
3852 2011-05-25 20:51:09 <luke-jr> new SB = Intel DQ67SW
3853 2011-05-25 20:52:13 <ArtForz> UD3H = SB700
3854 2011-05-25 20:52:37 <luke-jr> there's like 5 variants of UD3H. it was the H67 UD3H
3855 2011-05-25 20:52:53 <ArtForz> and all use the same sb700 southbridge
3856 2011-05-25 20:52:59 <luke-jr> so?
3857 2011-05-25 20:53:13 <luke-jr> I'm talking about actual floppy drive connector, not whether the chipset has it supported
3858 2011-05-25 20:53:34 <ArtForz> so.. they didnt have some free space on the board with nothing better to put there?
3859 2011-05-25 20:53:42 <luke-jr> oh, I see what you were saying
3860 2011-05-25 20:53:51 TD_ has joined
3861 2011-05-25 20:53:51 <luke-jr> my "SB" was "Sandy Bridge" ;)
3862 2011-05-25 20:53:59 <luke-jr> yours was generic "south bridge"
3863 2011-05-25 20:54:04 <ArtForz> yup
3864 2011-05-25 20:54:05 TD_ is now known as TD
3865 2011-05-25 20:54:51 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
3866 2011-05-25 20:54:56 <ArtForz> basically "why are mfgs still adding floppy headers?" "because it's still in the chipset and the connector adds nearly no cost"
3867 2011-05-25 20:55:04 <luke-jr> so in practical terms, does that mean I could solder a floppy connector to it? :P
3868 2011-05-25 20:55:28 <ArtForz> actually I think I have a board somewhere where exactly that would prolly work
3869 2011-05-25 20:55:44 <ArtForz> yeah, it's just missing the header
3870 2011-05-25 20:55:49 <luke-jr> but then, ⦠I never used floppies in my old 2005 Athlon64 â¦
3871 2011-05-25 20:55:53 <luke-jr> so it'd be a waste of time and risk
3872 2011-05-25 20:56:03 <ArtForz> I don't think I even have 3.5" floppies anymore
3873 2011-05-25 20:56:13 <ArtForz> well, except for my amiga games
3874 2011-05-25 20:56:21 <luke-jr> heck, I decided this time I didn't even care for Firewire
3875 2011-05-25 20:56:29 kiba has joined
3876 2011-05-25 20:56:30 <luke-jr> since basically nothing is using it anymore, and USB 3 won
3877 2011-05-25 20:56:36 <ArtForz> dunno, I kinda like FW
3878 2011-05-25 20:56:43 <luke-jr> me too, but it's useless w/o FW devices
3879 2011-05-25 20:56:50 <vegard> I still have an unopened box of floppies. and floppies are still the easiest way to test homebrew kernels :-/
3880 2011-05-25 20:56:52 <ArtForz> semipro audio/video equipment disagrees ;)
3881 2011-05-25 20:57:01 <vegard> (on real hardware, that is.)
3882 2011-05-25 20:57:02 <ArtForz> vegard: 256MB usb sticks
3883 2011-05-25 20:57:03 <luke-jr> vegard: uh, no?
3884 2011-05-25 20:57:13 <luke-jr> vegard: just copy to /boot and reboot
3885 2011-05-25 20:57:27 <ArtForz> same for bios flashin and similar stuff
3886 2011-05-25 20:57:49 <luke-jr> my BIOS has a flashing tool builtin
3887 2011-05-25 20:58:01 <ArtForz> $.99 usb sticks finally made floppies obsolete
3888 2011-05-25 20:58:02 <luke-jr> I just copy it to my N900 (in mass storage mode) and reboot
3889 2011-05-25 20:58:15 <andrew12> are there going to be any bitcoin talks at FOSSCON? :P
3890 2011-05-25 20:58:35 <ArtForz> took long enough...
3891 2011-05-25 20:58:57 <luke-jr> ArtForz: meh, if I wanted a bootable floppy, I used to burn it to a CD-R in "floppy emulation mode"
3892 2011-05-25 20:59:15 <luke-jr> easier than finding a real floppy
3893 2011-05-25 20:59:53 <ArtForz> shrug, if I need a "real" floopy... I use a old USB 1.1 sony 8MB stick
3894 2011-05-25 21:00:00 <ArtForz> shows up as a usb fdd
3895 2011-05-25 21:00:22 <andrew12> win 23
3896 2011-05-25 21:00:27 <andrew12> er
3897 2011-05-25 21:00:33 <andrew12> meant to do /win :x
3898 2011-05-25 21:00:51 <ArtForz> btw, that thing has a weird size
3899 2011-05-25 21:01:07 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3900 2011-05-25 21:01:13 <ArtForz> someone got really used to 1.44MB floppies I guess
3901 2011-05-25 21:01:18 <ArtForz> it's 8192000 bytes
3902 2011-05-25 21:02:13 little_bit_coin_ has joined
3903 2011-05-25 21:02:26 <sirius> who was the guy with 350k coins?
3904 2011-05-25 21:02:33 <little_bit_coin_> Hi
3905 2011-05-25 21:02:44 <BlueMatt> hello
3906 2011-05-25 21:02:44 <ArtForz> knightmb?
3907 2011-05-25 21:02:49 diki has joined
3908 2011-05-25 21:02:54 <little_bit_coin_> Hey! Guys
3909 2011-05-25 21:02:54 <sirius> oh yes
3910 2011-05-25 21:02:57 Marcel has joined
3911 2011-05-25 21:03:00 <little_bit_coin_> Got some questions.
3912 2011-05-25 21:03:00 <diki> I was just about to write about bitcoins in 4chan....someone beat me to it
3913 2011-05-25 21:03:13 <diki> http://boards.4chan.org/g/res/17724680
3914 2011-05-25 21:03:14 <little_bit_coin_> Be sure the questions are stupid.
3915 2011-05-25 21:03:21 <erbs> im buying more bitcoins
3916 2011-05-25 21:03:24 <SerajewelKS> 4chan
3917 2011-05-25 21:03:33 <SerajewelKS> the sewer of the internet
3918 2011-05-25 21:03:38 <diki> lol
3919 2011-05-25 21:03:39 <sipa> jgarzik: so, immediately change the behaviour, or temporary solution in 0.3.22?
3920 2011-05-25 21:03:57 <diki> but 4chan is the place to make btc popular
3921 2011-05-25 21:04:01 <ArtForz> sipa: hmmm
3922 2011-05-25 21:04:07 <diki> problem is...the power of anon can bring it down
3923 2011-05-25 21:04:35 <ArtForz> shouldnt be making getminfee "do the right thing" for a while be pretty easy ?
3924 2011-05-25 21:04:35 necrodearia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3925 2011-05-25 21:04:51 <BlueMatt> little_bit_coin_: noob questions are best left to #bitcoin
3926 2011-05-25 21:05:18 <jgarzik> sipa: can stage just the accept-below-0.01 change now, then start making TXs with those lower fees in 0.4
3927 2011-05-25 21:05:26 <ArtForz> yep
3928 2011-05-25 21:05:29 <ArtForz> thats the basic idea
3929 2011-05-25 21:05:30 <little_bit_coin_> hey, I have already asked there. but they are more noob than my noob questions.
3930 2011-05-25 21:05:34 <sipa> that's indeed best i think
3931 2011-05-25 21:05:44 <ArtForz> make sending still follow the 0.01 rule, change forwarding and mining to 0.0005
3932 2011-05-25 21:05:47 <sipa> little_bit_coin_: ask here, or ask in #bitcoin, but please don't ask to ask
3933 2011-05-25 21:05:59 Sedra- has joined
3934 2011-05-25 21:06:07 <jgarzik> sipa: wanna whip up a patch? I won't be able to deep dive for 24-48hrs
3935 2011-05-25 21:06:08 Incitatus has joined
3936 2011-05-25 21:06:28 <jgarzik> sipa: split MIN_TX_FEE into MIN_TX_FEE and MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE, perhaps
3937 2011-05-25 21:07:02 EPiSKiNG- has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3938 2011-05-25 21:07:14 <BlueMatt> after this + a response on high cpu usage, are we at release?
3939 2011-05-25 21:07:47 <LiveFreeOrDie201> not a single store in town has an AMD 58xx or 59xx
3940 2011-05-25 21:07:51 <LiveFreeOrDie201> wtf
3941 2011-05-25 21:08:02 <BlueMatt> all the bitcoiners :)
3942 2011-05-25 21:08:10 <LiveFreeOrDie201> yeesh
3943 2011-05-25 21:08:15 <LiveFreeOrDie201> yeah I'm sure thats the problem
3944 2011-05-25 21:08:35 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3945 2011-05-25 21:08:36 eao has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3946 2011-05-25 21:08:58 <BlueMatt> lol
3947 2011-05-25 21:09:12 <little_bit_coin_> I'm trying to organize my questions.
3948 2011-05-25 21:09:26 <diki> i am left with a twin frozr II and an msi 5850
3949 2011-05-25 21:09:38 <diki> getting the cheaper one
3950 2011-05-25 21:09:39 <gwillen> LiveFreeOrDie201: I am curious where 'town' is
3951 2011-05-25 21:09:42 <diki> dont like msi, but meh
3952 2011-05-25 21:09:59 <gwillen> LiveFreeOrDie201: I am currently desperately searching internet stores for a 5870 or 6990
3953 2011-05-25 21:10:06 <gwillen> I have given up on the 5970 which seemingly does not exist
3954 2011-05-25 21:10:37 <diki> zomg, we are almost at 4 thash/s
3955 2011-05-25 21:11:19 gsathya has quit (Quit: gsathya)
3956 2011-05-25 21:11:50 Malldar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3957 2011-05-25 21:12:15 * TD remembers when there were only 4 or 5 people mining with their cpus and GPU mining was described as something that might happen "eventually"
3958 2011-05-25 21:12:41 <BlueMatt> lol, youve been around for a long time...
3959 2011-05-25 21:13:15 <TD> well, not really. i played with bitcoin, abandoned it, then came back
3960 2011-05-25 21:13:50 <BlueMatt> I heard about it mentioned a year or so ago...but never actually even downloaded the client till a couple months ago
3961 2011-05-25 21:14:18 <sipa> jgarzik: actually, what you want is a MIN_TX_FEE and a MIN_TX_FEE_FOR_SMALL_OUTPUTS
3962 2011-05-25 21:14:29 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
3963 2011-05-25 21:14:37 ahbritto_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3964 2011-05-25 21:14:55 ahbritto has joined
3965 2011-05-25 21:14:56 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: answering your question via tagging github issues as '0.3.22'
3966 2011-05-25 21:14:58 <sipa> because if we'd go for MIN_TX_FEE and MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE, all transactions will use 0.01 fees again
3967 2011-05-25 21:15:15 <sipa> while that's not necessary, only those with subcent outputs
3968 2011-05-25 21:15:41 has joined
3969 2011-05-25 21:16:12 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
3970 2011-05-25 21:16:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126727 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 280 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 23 hours, 29 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 422816.12260225
3971 2011-05-25 21:16:44 Pathin has joined
3972 2011-05-25 21:17:06 <midnightmagic> more like 3TH..
3973 2011-05-25 21:17:06 <jgarzik> sipa: that's intentional
3974 2011-05-25 21:17:16 <LiveFreeOrDie201> I got a 5850 super cheap on Ebay :)
3975 2011-05-25 21:17:23 <diki> seems like mentioning bitcoins to 4 chan is increasing the mining power
3976 2011-05-25 21:17:29 <jgarzik> sipa: you gotta use 0.01 with a staged change, otherwise paying 0.0005 is not giving users what they think they are getting
3977 2011-05-25 21:17:31 <LiveFreeOrDie201> stupid small town New Mexico, can't get shit for electronics here
3978 2011-05-25 21:17:31 <little_bit_coin_> God, I'm getting lost in bitcoins. I'm so confused.
3979 2011-05-25 21:17:32 <diki> >:]
3980 2011-05-25 21:17:37 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3981 2011-05-25 21:17:40 <sipa> jgarzik: good point
3982 2011-05-25 21:17:48 <ninjaneo> then stop that diki =p
3983 2011-05-25 21:18:01 <diki> can't. Once it's there...you can't take it back.
3984 2011-05-25 21:18:05 <diki> ever...
3985 2011-05-25 21:18:05 <ninjaneo> wtg.
3986 2011-05-25 21:18:10 <little_bit_coin_> https://www.instawallet.org/ -- so if someone knows, my wallet address then he/she can take all my money?
3987 2011-05-25 21:18:19 Pathin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3988 2011-05-25 21:18:23 <sipa> little_bit_coin_: no, but they can if they know the URL
3989 2011-05-25 21:18:50 <jgarzik> sipa: so MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE buys your way out of the free tx area, in 0.3.22
3990 2011-05-25 21:18:51 <midnightmagic> ah, I see. By sipa's current-rate graph, it's close to 3.8TH/s
3991 2011-05-25 21:18:52 <LiveFreeOrDie201> sipa: you wrote one of the miners, right?
3992 2011-05-25 21:18:58 <little_bit_coin_> damn, so, there is not security of my wallet?
3993 2011-05-25 21:19:13 <TD> little_bit_coin_: instawallet is just one service. wallets can be stored in several ways.
3994 2011-05-25 21:19:17 <sipa> LiveFreeOrDie201: no
3995 2011-05-25 21:19:24 <TD> little_bit_coin_: if you download/run the software you store the wallet on your computer
3996 2011-05-25 21:19:33 <LiveFreeOrDie201> little_bit_coin, just copy the /bitcoin directory from ur computer to an encrypted USB drive
3997 2011-05-25 21:19:42 Netsniper has joined
3998 2011-05-25 21:19:55 <jeremid> does the client keep checking a chain even if the first couple blocks are invalid?
3999 2011-05-25 21:19:57 <LiveFreeOrDie201> then erase it from your hard-drive and only run from USB
4000 2011-05-25 21:20:16 Pathin has joined
4001 2011-05-25 21:20:18 has quit (Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-252-16-34.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
4002 2011-05-25 21:20:54 Pathin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4003 2011-05-25 21:21:10 <TD> jeremid: blocks that are invalid are rejected, so they can't be part of any chain
4004 2011-05-25 21:21:20 <little_bit_coin_> one more thing, if give someone an address to send me money and then if I close my client or if my pc broke, then what will happen to that money?
4005 2011-05-25 21:21:35 <ArtForz> hmm, I think I broke testnet BBE
4006 2011-05-25 21:21:42 <midnightmagic> hey me too!
4007 2011-05-25 21:21:52 <TD> little_bit_coin_: it's fine. as long as you have a copy of your wallet, you can restore the backup and your coins will be there
4008 2011-05-25 21:22:16 <jeremid> TD: oh ok, so the client wont try tfetch the preivious block of a badone
4009 2011-05-25 21:22:18 <TD> little_bit_coin_: the fact that you own the coins is stored on other peoples computers as well as your own. so the only thing that matters is whether you have the keys (which are in your wallet)
4010 2011-05-25 21:22:32 Sedra has joined
4011 2011-05-25 21:22:42 <TD> jeremid: it will because you can't really know if a block is bad without processing its ancestors first
4012 2011-05-25 21:22:45 <jeremid> TD: if it gets a good block, but for some reason doesn't have hte "previous one" in its memory. what happens.. does it ask for the one before that
4013 2011-05-25 21:22:45 Pathin has joined
4014 2011-05-25 21:22:50 <TD> yes
4015 2011-05-25 21:22:56 has joined
4016 2011-05-25 21:22:58 <little_bit_coin_> and every key is unique?
4017 2011-05-25 21:23:12 <jrmithdobbs> little_bit_coin_: look for ecdsa on wikipedia for the answer to that
4018 2011-05-25 21:23:12 <ArtForz> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/b/20522
4019 2011-05-25 21:23:24 <jrmithdobbs> little_bit_coin_: the answer is "effectively yes"
4020 2011-05-25 21:23:28 <TD> yes. keys are just big random numbers. but if you want to ask more questions try #bitcoin, i will chat to you there
4021 2011-05-25 21:23:36 <TD> this channel is for software development
4022 2011-05-25 21:23:51 <sipa> does anyone understand the nTransactionFee variable?
4023 2011-05-25 21:23:58 <jeremid> TD: alrite makes sense. so if you get a block, what happens first - check if its valid or get the ancestors?
4024 2011-05-25 21:24:00 Pathin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4025 2011-05-25 21:24:01 zamgo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4026 2011-05-25 21:24:06 <sipa> it seems to be both a per-KB setting variable
4027 2011-05-25 21:24:24 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
4028 2011-05-25 21:24:26 <jgarzik> sipa, BlueMatt, tcatm: tagged "we should look at/fix these" issues in github with "bug" and "0.3.22" tags. There are several uglies found by static analysis that should be looked at (probably simple fixes).
4029 2011-05-25 21:24:27 <sipa> as a global used to pass the currently requested fee to CreateTransaction
4030 2011-05-25 21:24:44 <jgarzik> sipa: yep, it's per KB
4031 2011-05-25 21:24:58 Pathin has joined
4032 2011-05-25 21:25:04 Sedra- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4033 2011-05-25 21:25:06 <TD> jeremid: see ProcessBlock function
4034 2011-05-25 21:25:13 <TD> jeremid: there are some preliminary checks first
4035 2011-05-25 21:25:21 <TD> eg, that the proof of work matches the declared difficulty
4036 2011-05-25 21:25:23 Pathin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4037 2011-05-25 21:25:28 kensai7 has joined
4038 2011-05-25 21:25:36 <TD> basically things that can be checked independent of the chain
4039 2011-05-25 21:25:42 Pathin has joined
4040 2011-05-25 21:25:46 <TD> if those checks pass the ancestors are requested if missing
4041 2011-05-25 21:25:53 <jgarzik> ArtForz: IIRC, theymos said BBE doesn't handle reorgs too well
4042 2011-05-25 21:26:04 <ArtForz> apparently...
4043 2011-05-25 21:26:06 <jeremid> oh makes sense.. so if the PoW is too low, it doesn't even bother
4044 2011-05-25 21:26:11 <TD> right
4045 2011-05-25 21:26:17 <TD> if the data structure is not consistent, etc
4046 2011-05-25 21:26:22 <jgarzik> ArtForz: it stores the first copy of <blah> in its database. we found a double-spend somewhere that way, when it wound up BBE had some invalid data
4047 2011-05-25 21:26:44 kensai has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4048 2011-05-25 21:27:05 <little_bit_coin_> if I want to transfer my coins from https://www.instawallet.org/ to my client in machine. than I have to transfer from instawallet to my client machine.
4049 2011-05-25 21:27:09 <vegard> is the bitcoin software in need of developers?
4050 2011-05-25 21:27:14 <TD> vegard: yes
4051 2011-05-25 21:27:18 <little_bit_coin_> I mean, send
4052 2011-05-25 21:27:20 <vegard> what for?
4053 2011-05-25 21:27:29 <little_bit_coin_> ?
4054 2011-05-25 21:27:32 <TD> little_bit_coin_: yeah. take the address shown in your desktop app, and send the coins from instawallet to there
4055 2011-05-25 21:27:39 <TD> vegard: tons of things
4056 2011-05-25 21:27:47 <TD> vegard: depends what you can do and what you're interested in
4057 2011-05-25 21:28:00 <TD> if you're more a c++ guy, a web developer, mobile developer etc ....
4058 2011-05-25 21:28:03 <luke-jr> vegard: Spesmilo is open to contributions of any sort
4059 2011-05-25 21:28:08 <little_bit_coin_> hmm, now i started to get the idea. so no key = coins are lost.
4060 2011-05-25 21:28:15 <TD> little_bit_coin_: right
4061 2011-05-25 21:28:18 <vegard> oh. I was thinking mostly about the core bitcoin[d] programs
4062 2011-05-25 21:28:50 <TD> vegard: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues?state=open
4063 2011-05-25 21:28:55 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: what's spesmilo?
4064 2011-05-25 21:28:58 <luke-jr> vegard: a proper wallet protocol is needed to abstract the GUI from the wallet
4065 2011-05-25 21:28:59 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: did i miss drama
4066 2011-05-25 21:29:01 <TD> vegard: you could improve the UI of the app :-)
4067 2011-05-25 21:29:08 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: Python/PySide Bitcoin client
4068 2011-05-25 21:29:27 <little_bit_coin_> Now, about implementation...
4069 2011-05-25 21:29:46 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: heh intentional? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spesmilo
4070 2011-05-25 21:29:54 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: probably, I didn't name it
4071 2011-05-25 21:30:01 <vegard> I don't really use the gui myself though :-/
4072 2011-05-25 21:30:20 <luke-jr> vegard: neither did I, until Spesmilo
4073 2011-05-25 21:30:35 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: where's git for that?
4074 2011-05-25 21:30:44 <luke-jr> https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo
4075 2011-05-25 21:31:05 <TD> vegard: there's some lower level work that could be done. optimizations at the protocol level, a test framework etc
4076 2011-05-25 21:31:20 <TD> vegard: new crypto-level features like contracts, if you want to do more experimental stuff
4077 2011-05-25 21:31:42 <vegard> that sounds more interesting
4078 2011-05-25 21:31:46 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: are wallets binary compat or being stored in something other than bdb?
4079 2011-05-25 21:32:03 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: Spesmilo just connects to a bitcoind, local or remote
4080 2011-05-25 21:32:20 <luke-jr> Windows version bundles a bitcoind for transparency
4081 2011-05-25 21:32:22 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: even better. it just relies on the json-rpc interface?
4082 2011-05-25 21:32:27 <luke-jr> unfortunately
4083 2011-05-25 21:32:39 <luke-jr> vegard: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Wallet_protocol is the place for drafts and ideas ;)
4084 2011-05-25 21:32:42 lolol has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4085 2011-05-25 21:32:58 <Xenland> any thoughts why bitcoinpoold -D=2 wont output anything?
4086 2011-05-25 21:33:02 <luke-jr> vegard: regarding wallet<->GUI isolation, that is
4087 2011-05-25 21:33:09 <luke-jr> Xenland: wtf is bitcoinpoold?
4088 2011-05-25 21:33:23 <Xenland> lol
4089 2011-05-25 21:33:31 <Xenland> is that a joke?
4090 2011-05-25 21:33:37 <vegard> when bitcoin boots and it says "Loaded 49467 addresses", what are those?
4091 2011-05-25 21:33:40 <Xenland> your luke dashJr bro
4092 2011-05-25 21:33:44 <sipa> vegard: IP addresses
4093 2011-05-25 21:33:51 <Xenland> help me out
4094 2011-05-25 21:33:56 <luke-jr> Xenland: so what is it?
4095 2011-05-25 21:34:06 <Xenland> idk you created it
4096 2011-05-25 21:34:14 Mark__ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4097 2011-05-25 21:34:27 <Xenland> lol i kid
4098 2011-05-25 21:34:31 <Xenland> its a mining pool
4099 2011-05-25 21:34:42 <vegard> thanks, all, you've been helpful.
4100 2011-05-25 21:34:51 <Xenland> that you can run and you can create a webinterface to allow users to register
4101 2011-05-25 21:35:01 <luke-jr> Xenland: link?
4102 2011-05-25 21:35:02 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4103 2011-05-25 21:35:17 <Xenland> heres the thread to it: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8707.0
4104 2011-05-25 21:35:28 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4105 2011-05-25 21:35:39 <bradmills> is there an easier way for a startup to process bitcoin transactions (receive and send) other than using bitcoind server?
4106 2011-05-25 21:35:43 is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-252-42-62.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
4107 2011-05-25 21:35:43 <Xenland> Someone named Luke DashJr it helping with the project(or atleast i see it every where on the github page)
4108 2011-05-25 21:36:11 <jeremid> im parched
4109 2011-05-25 21:36:20 <jeremid> brb
4110 2011-05-25 21:36:40 <Xenland> i havet heard the word parched in over 7 years!
4111 2011-05-25 21:37:21 glitch-mod has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4112 2011-05-25 21:37:37 GarrettB has joined
4113 2011-05-25 21:37:38 GarrettB has quit (Changing host)
4114 2011-05-25 21:37:38 GarrettB has joined
4115 2011-05-25 21:37:58 <little_bit_coin_> Our company is interested to implement bitcoin transaction for services. So, using jsonRPC everytime I'll give a different key to a customer to send us money and I have to keep that keys in db, right? And Later we will transfer all the money in those keys to our master account.
4116 2011-05-25 21:38:06 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4117 2011-05-25 21:38:18 IncitatusOnWater has joined
4118 2011-05-25 21:39:17 <luke-jr> little_bit_coin_: you can, or getnewaddress can be give an 'account' to label funds with
4119 2011-05-25 21:40:34 marlowe has joined
4120 2011-05-25 21:42:16 little_bit_coin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4121 2011-05-25 21:42:51 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
4122 2011-05-25 21:42:52 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":7.7,"low":7.01,"vol":39615,"buy":7.4214,"sell":7.5199,"last":7.5198}}
4123 2011-05-25 21:43:16 little_bit_coin has joined
4124 2011-05-25 21:43:21 <TD> little_bit_coin: yup
4125 2011-05-25 21:43:23 <gjs278> ;;bc,tstats
4126 2011-05-25 21:43:24 <gribble> Error: "bc,tstats" is not a valid command.
4127 2011-05-25 21:43:26 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
4128 2011-05-25 21:43:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126732 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 275 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 23 hours, 8 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 423249.72257092
4129 2011-05-25 21:43:35 <TD> vegard: see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts
4130 2011-05-25 21:43:47 <little_bit_coin> so, for instawallet, i have to secure the link.
4131 2011-05-25 21:43:49 <TD> vegard: that's what i meant by contracts. it allows for low-trust escrow and things
4132 2011-05-25 21:43:53 Lethe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4133 2011-05-25 21:43:58 <TD> little_bit_coin: well, instawallet is kind of for playing around with
4134 2011-05-25 21:44:01 <TD> little_bit_coin: and casual use
4135 2011-05-25 21:44:04 X-Scale has quit (Quit: Time left until the Epochalypse: 26yrs 34wks 17hrs 36mins 12secs)
4136 2011-05-25 21:44:07 <little_bit_coin> and for client in windows/mac os, i have to secure my program. like i have to keep them in usb?
4137 2011-05-25 21:44:20 <TD> little_bit_coin: anyone who knows the link can access the coins in your wallet. most businesses use the bitcoin server
4138 2011-05-25 21:44:31 <TD> yeah keeping the keys on a usb key is a good idea. you only have to back up the wallet from time to time
4139 2011-05-25 21:44:39 Lethe has joined
4140 2011-05-25 21:44:45 <TD> obviously if you start keeping lots of money on there, you might want to use a more robust solution
4141 2011-05-25 21:44:46 <little_bit_coin> bitcoin server = you mean bitcoind, right?
4142 2011-05-25 21:44:48 <TD> yeah
4143 2011-05-25 21:45:47 <little_bit_coin> ok, so suppose that, i have got 500 BTC in my window client.
4144 2011-05-25 21:46:06 <little_bit_coin> and then suddenly boom. my machine got brok.e
4145 2011-05-25 21:46:14 <little_bit_coin> is there any change to get those BTC back?
4146 2011-05-25 21:46:46 <kakazza> From your backup of your wallet.dat
4147 2011-05-25 21:46:49 idnar has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
4148 2011-05-25 21:47:03 Sthebig has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4149 2011-05-25 21:47:08 <little_bit_coin> no my machine melt down like milkshake.
4150 2011-05-25 21:47:16 idnar has joined
4151 2011-05-25 21:47:34 <TD> if you have no backups of wallet.dat, then the money is gone forever
4152 2011-05-25 21:47:57 <little_bit_coin> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, moneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey.
4153 2011-05-25 21:48:04 Sthebig has joined
4154 2011-05-25 21:48:09 <BlueMatt> but your machine keeps a list of 100 keys ready for use so that you only have to back up once per 100 actions
4155 2011-05-25 21:48:20 <LiveFreeOrDie201> we were talking about the possibility of building a group-wallet program last night...
4156 2011-05-25 21:48:23 <little_bit_coin> its like real virtual money.
4157 2011-05-25 21:48:23 <BlueMatt> ie when you click new address, it pulls from a list
4158 2011-05-25 21:48:38 <LiveFreeOrDie201> about how to share wallets among several computers running at the same time
4159 2011-05-25 21:49:27 <LiveFreeOrDie201> I should suggest that as a feature in the new wallet program they are building
4160 2011-05-25 21:49:43 <little_bit_coin> i think, bitcoin has lots of security threats.
4161 2011-05-25 21:50:01 <LiveFreeOrDie201> the security of your wallet is up to you. the network is secure
4162 2011-05-25 21:50:37 <little_bit_coin> yeah, thats what i mean.
4163 2011-05-25 21:51:34 <BlueMatt> well in 0.4.0 your wallet will be encrypted on disk and in memory
4164 2011-05-25 21:51:41 <little_bit_coin> ok, so, whats the best way to implement paypal like services using bitcoin.
4165 2011-05-25 21:51:44 <BlueMatt> only to be decrypted with the pass when you send coins or make new addresses
4166 2011-05-25 21:52:16 <LiveFreeOrDie201> little_bit_coin this question has been asked to death. Read up on CoinDeal and MTGOX/MagicalTux
4167 2011-05-25 21:52:43 <little_bit_coin> I mean, implementation.
4168 2011-05-25 21:53:06 <LiveFreeOrDie201> The best way would be to become your own bank
4169 2011-05-25 21:53:08 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: what do you think of the 0.3.22 list?
4170 2011-05-25 21:53:47 <LiveFreeOrDie201> Or get a cetification to process ACH transactions, which could cost up to $1M per state
4171 2011-05-25 21:54:16 <little_bit_coin> 1. create an account in mybitcoin.com.
4172 2011-05-25 21:54:22 <LiveFreeOrDie201> until then, use Dwolla
4173 2011-05-25 21:56:30 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: send coins bug sounds like it needs serious examination to fix it, and some of (maybe) the static code analysis stuff as well, frankly, I want to see 0.3.22 out as soon as sipa's fee stuff is done, but I suppose we can fix the wildcard and some of the static code stuff as well...the getdifficlty thing is really minor and can be left to, as gavin puts it, someone new who wants to help out
4174 2011-05-25 21:57:53 <sipa> bah, i'm not looking forward to complaints "you mean a fee of 0.0005 is enough, but my clients still requires me to send 0.01?? is there no way to turn this of??? aaargh my precioussss bitcoins!!!"
4175 2011-05-25 21:58:05 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4176 2011-05-25 21:58:31 inductor_ has joined
4177 2011-05-25 21:58:50 <BlueMatt> sipa: well IMHO its the only option...plus we dont have to tell them that 0.0005 is a valid fee ;)
4178 2011-05-25 21:58:53 <jgarzik> sipa: gotta have a decent message for our users, indeed
4179 2011-05-25 21:59:16 <BlueMatt> meh just explain it in the release notes, people will understand
4180 2011-05-25 21:59:21 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: impatience is no reason to leave potential memory leaks and memory corruption on the floor :)
4181 2011-05-25 21:59:40 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: shouldn't take but a day or two to (a) untag or (b) knock out that list, I bet
4182 2011-05-25 22:00:03 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: never said we shouldnt check the code analysis crap, just that some of it is probably not true/would take work to fix...
4183 2011-05-25 22:00:24 <sipa> that static code analysis looks like (mostly) false positives
4184 2011-05-25 22:00:28 <sipa> at least the case i looked at
4185 2011-05-25 22:00:58 little_bit_coin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4186 2011-05-25 22:01:10 inductor has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
4187 2011-05-25 22:01:20 <lfm> diki: you still here?
4188 2011-05-25 22:01:54 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I already made a branch a while ago that more or less fixes it
4189 2011-05-25 22:02:14 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: care to share?
4190 2011-05-25 22:02:44 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git/commitdiff/7f0c8f29f706c5b8d57a5af821875979aaa017cc
4191 2011-05-25 22:02:52 <luke-jr> it would need some adaptation for the 0.0005 BTC thing
4192 2011-05-25 22:03:02 <luke-jr> but the basic API change should be portable
4193 2011-05-25 22:03:16 <luke-jr> nMode: 0=relay; 1=sending; 2=putting in block
4194 2011-05-25 22:03:22 <BlueMatt> wait what does this do exactly?
4195 2011-05-25 22:03:31 <BlueMatt> ah, nvm
4196 2011-05-25 22:03:34 <luke-jr> adds a parameter to GetMinFee
4197 2011-05-25 22:03:40 <sipa> ha, i was adding one too
4198 2011-05-25 22:03:48 <luke-jr> so fees can be different for relay, sending, or accepting to block
4199 2011-05-25 22:03:49 <sipa> yours is more general, let me check
4200 2011-05-25 22:04:26 X-Scale has joined
4201 2011-05-25 22:04:57 <lfm> has anyone noticed that the difficulty calculation is getting inaccurate?
4202 2011-05-25 22:05:02 <sipa> lfm: yes
4203 2011-05-25 22:05:06 <sipa> hmm, i'll keep mode 1 and 2 equal for now
4204 2011-05-25 22:05:50 ezl has joined
4205 2011-05-25 22:05:51 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: that's ugly, can't you replace 0,1,2 with some #defines
4206 2011-05-25 22:06:06 <jrmithdobbs> or an enum
4207 2011-05-25 22:06:11 <sipa> i'll use a bool for now
4208 2011-05-25 22:06:23 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr split * r49f44a6bcc15 gentoo/ (40 files in 6 dirs): split net-p2p/bitcoin into net-p2p/wxbitcoin and net-p2p/bitcoind http://tinyurl.com/3dml4da
4209 2011-05-25 22:06:34 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, sipa: yep. if some of the bugs are not true, just close them / add a comment to close.
4210 2011-05-25 22:06:38 <jgarzik> it's just a list to be sorted
4211 2011-05-25 22:06:43 <jgarzik> not a list of things to fix
4212 2011-05-25 22:06:46 <jgarzik> big difference :)
4213 2011-05-25 22:06:48 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: fair enough
4214 2011-05-25 22:07:03 <jgarzik> gotta review the issues list for each release
4215 2011-05-25 22:07:13 <jgarzik> granted, it should have been done before now
4216 2011-05-25 22:07:47 <jgarzik> "notabug" or "not 0.3.22 material" are both valid responses to those bugs.
4217 2011-05-25 22:07:54 <LiveFreeOrDie201> lfm is difficulty reported too high or too low?
4218 2011-05-25 22:07:59 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: just copying the existing code style
4219 2011-05-25 22:08:16 <luke-jr> sipa: fail
4220 2011-05-25 22:08:39 <BlueMatt> I wish github's bug stuff was better
4221 2011-05-25 22:08:47 <BlueMatt> no way to tag notabug or wontfix :(
4222 2011-05-25 22:08:56 <luke-jr> sipa: why would you intentionally design something that is liable to need changing later?
4223 2011-05-25 22:08:59 <ArtForz> yep, a 0/1/2 param (or 2 bools) for sending/forwarding/mining seem appropriate
4224 2011-05-25 22:09:07 <luke-jr> sipa: and makes life harder for miners who wish to change their policies?
4225 2011-05-25 22:10:38 <ArtForz> fuck, I'm agreeing with luke. *runs away screaming*
4226 2011-05-25 22:10:55 <BlueMatt> lol
4227 2011-05-25 22:12:08 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
4228 2011-05-25 22:12:33 <luke-jr> sipa: don't be like jgarzik and gavin who want to make life intentionally more difficult for people doing things they don't care about
4229 2011-05-25 22:12:43 <luke-jr> plz
4230 2011-05-25 22:12:51 <BlueMatt> oh god, luke stop that now, please
4231 2011-05-25 22:13:08 <BlueMatt> name calling never helped anything
4232 2011-05-25 22:13:18 <BlueMatt> whether its true or not, or unfounded or not, it just doesnt help
4233 2011-05-25 22:13:18 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
4234 2011-05-25 22:13:55 <LiveFreeOrDie201> trying to get performance increase from using Phoenix... hrmmm....
4235 2011-05-25 22:14:09 <sipa> mining is essentially a special case, as it is an extra selection done on transactions that are already selected for relaying
4236 2011-05-25 22:14:32 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no? problems don't get solved if left ignored.
4237 2011-05-25 22:14:36 <sipa> so i see no reason why it can't be implemented as such once a need is there to treat those separately
4238 2011-05-25 22:14:56 <luke-jr> sipa: using a bool is no easier than using == 0
4239 2011-05-25 22:14:57 <jeremid> :-)
4240 2011-05-25 22:15:02 tauri has joined
4241 2011-05-25 22:15:10 <luke-jr> sipa: and the code is already written
4242 2011-05-25 22:15:13 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: name calling just pisses people off and gets you on /ignore lists, and you wonder why you are ignored?
4243 2011-05-25 22:15:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: what name?
4244 2011-05-25 22:15:38 <BlueMatt> <luke-jr> sipa: don't be like jgarzik and gavin who want to make life intentionally more difficult for people doing things they don't care about
4245 2011-05-25 22:15:47 <BlueMatt> plus all the "bigot" calls
4246 2011-05-25 22:15:54 <diki> ;;bc,blocks
4247 2011-05-25 22:15:54 <gribble> 126738
4248 2011-05-25 22:15:57 <Diablo-D3> >luke-jr
4249 2011-05-25 22:15:58 <luke-jr> sipa: heck, my branch could be merged as-is I think
4250 2011-05-25 22:15:59 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
4251 2011-05-25 22:16:04 <Diablo-D3> >bitches about how wonderful jgarzik and gavin are
4252 2011-05-25 22:16:08 <Diablo-D3> lolwut
4253 2011-05-25 22:16:13 EPiSKiNG has joined
4254 2011-05-25 22:16:16 RenaKunisaki has joined
4255 2011-05-25 22:16:17 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4256 2011-05-25 22:16:17 <luke-jr> hmm, I'm not sure my patch actually fixes the <0.01 BTC case, lookign at it
4257 2011-05-25 22:16:28 <sipa> luke-jr: i've got the <0.01 BTC case fixed
4258 2011-05-25 22:16:39 <lfm> seems like there should be a fork
4259 2011-05-25 22:16:54 <sipa> and there are other places that need changing when MIN_TX_FEE and MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE are split up
4260 2011-05-25 22:17:00 bitanarchy has joined
4261 2011-05-25 22:17:07 vikarti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4262 2011-05-25 22:17:13 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: "bigot" calls?
4263 2011-05-25 22:17:24 <luke-jr> sipa: there's nothing to split up right now
4264 2011-05-25 22:17:27 <luke-jr> sipa: neither of those exist
4265 2011-05-25 22:17:33 <luke-jr> everything goes through GetMinFee
4266 2011-05-25 22:17:36 <sipa> MIN_TX_FEE does exist
4267 2011-05-25 22:17:39 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: luke calls gavin/me/jgarzik bigots on a regular basis
4268 2011-05-25 22:17:49 <EPiSKiNG> anyone mining with a 6990 right now?
4269 2011-05-25 22:17:52 <jrmithdobbs> i've not seen it
4270 2011-05-25 22:18:02 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: look up the uri branch
4271 2011-05-25 22:18:04 <luke-jr> sipa: ok, that's new then
4272 2011-05-25 22:18:09 <lfm> EPiSKiNG: ya lots of people are, not me tho
4273 2011-05-25 22:18:09 <EPiSKiNG> wondering what kind of MH/s you're getting... I'm just hitting 400 at 930 clock 600 mem
4274 2011-05-25 22:18:11 klack has joined
4275 2011-05-25 22:18:17 <sipa> luke-jr: yes, since the change to 0.0005 was made
4276 2011-05-25 22:18:21 Ramokk has quit ()
4277 2011-05-25 22:18:26 <luke-jr> ok, so it can be backed out
4278 2011-05-25 22:18:29 <luke-jr> maybe
4279 2011-05-25 22:18:44 Sedra has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4280 2011-05-25 22:18:50 <bitanarchy> I did some testing. I made a backup of the wallet at computer B. I send 10 btc from A to B and then 5 BTC from B to A. Then I restored the backup wallet at B. Guess what.... the change was gone....
4281 2011-05-25 22:19:00 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: on github?
4282 2011-05-25 22:19:02 <klack> ;;bc,stats
4283 2011-05-25 22:19:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126739 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 268 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 22 hours, 33 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 423103.78792607
4284 2011-05-25 22:19:08 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: forums/irc logs
4285 2011-05-25 22:19:15 <luke-jr> bitanarchy: um, duh?
4286 2011-05-25 22:19:18 Sedra has joined
4287 2011-05-25 22:19:29 <lfm> bitanarchy: did you do a rescan?
4288 2011-05-25 22:19:34 qwerty1793 has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
4289 2011-05-25 22:19:39 <sipa> bitanarchy: which version?
4290 2011-05-25 22:19:56 <bitanarchy> luke-jr: backup wallets are supposed to work... with version 3.21
4291 2011-05-25 22:20:07 <luke-jr> bitanarchy: they do work. you're just restoring it wrong
4292 2011-05-25 22:20:11 <lfm> bitanarchy: did you do a rescan?
4293 2011-05-25 22:20:22 <bitanarchy> lfm: no, how does that work
4294 2011-05-25 22:20:24 <sipa> lfm: rescans shouldn't be necessary with 0.3.21
4295 2011-05-25 22:20:25 <luke-jr> sipa: MIN_TX_FEE is used in one place outside GetMinFee; that one place can easily be turned into a GetMinFee call
4296 2011-05-25 22:20:31 <lfm> -rescan on the command line
4297 2011-05-25 22:20:43 <sipa> bitanarchy: and there is one known bug for a special case
4298 2011-05-25 22:20:47 <sipa> you may have hit it
4299 2011-05-25 22:20:58 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: site:forum.bitcoin.org uri +bigot
4300 2011-05-25 22:20:59 <sipa> although, no, that's not it here
4301 2011-05-25 22:21:02 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: just sayin
4302 2011-05-25 22:21:20 <jrmithdobbs> erm
4303 2011-05-25 22:21:23 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: Your search - site:forum.bitcoin.org uri +bigot - did not match any documents.
4304 2011-05-25 22:21:28 <jrmithdobbs> copy/paste fail
4305 2011-05-25 22:21:57 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
4306 2011-05-25 22:22:13 <bitanarchy> how long does a rescan take?
4307 2011-05-25 22:22:32 <gjs278> jrmithdobbs the latest bigot call was at [13:48] <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yes it is, because the people maintaining the blob are bigots and won't merge anything reasonable
4308 2011-05-25 22:22:34 <lfm> a few hours depends on the speed of the machine
4309 2011-05-25 22:22:40 <sipa> bitanarchy: rescanning won't help if you're using 0.3.21
4310 2011-05-25 22:22:43 <BlueMatt> hey, theres a quote
4311 2011-05-25 22:22:46 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: google search string: "luke-jr" bigot
4312 2011-05-25 22:22:51 <sipa> lfm: and rescan takes a few seconds
4313 2011-05-25 22:23:04 <lfm> oh
4314 2011-05-25 22:23:06 <bitanarchy> sipa: so what is the solution with v3.21?
4315 2011-05-25 22:23:08 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: but it's really not worth caring about
4316 2011-05-25 22:23:17 <gjs278> on 3.21 I didn't have to rescan to restore a wallet
4317 2011-05-25 22:23:43 <gjs278> it just happened
4318 2011-05-25 22:23:51 <sipa> bitanarchy: can you do a forum post with an accurate descripion of what you did?
4319 2011-05-25 22:23:57 klack has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4320 2011-05-25 22:24:26 <sipa> luke-jr: that's a good suggestion, btw, turning the MIN_TX_FEE into a GetMinFee call
4321 2011-05-25 22:24:47 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4322 2011-05-25 22:26:00 <bitanarchy> sipa: I have two wallets now, one with the change present and one with the change gone.... but both should contain the key that was used for the chain.
4323 2011-05-25 22:26:16 <bitanarchy> for the change
4324 2011-05-25 22:26:34 <sipa> A and B always had the same wallets?
4325 2011-05-25 22:26:56 <bitanarchy> sipa: during my test ys
4326 2011-05-25 22:26:58 <bitanarchy> yes
4327 2011-05-25 22:27:00 <jgarzik> sipa: oh noes, is this turning into a big patch? :)
4328 2011-05-25 22:27:04 <sipa> jgarzik: not at all
4329 2011-05-25 22:27:11 <jgarzik> sipa: I was hoping for minimal, for -rc
4330 2011-05-25 22:27:39 <sipa> it's just a few lines
4331 2011-05-25 22:27:50 <jgarzik> cool
4332 2011-05-25 22:27:50 has joined
4333 2011-05-25 22:27:52 <bitanarchy> sipa: I like to make a listing of the key pool of each wallet to see what is going on
4334 2011-05-25 22:27:59 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4335 2011-05-25 22:28:16 bitcoiner has joined
4336 2011-05-25 22:29:24 ezl has joined
4337 2011-05-25 22:30:43 <bitanarchy> by the way, it was 0.10btc, not 10btc...
4338 2011-05-25 22:31:09 Tritonio has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4339 2011-05-25 22:31:15 theymos has joined
4340 2011-05-25 22:31:30 <CIA-103> bitcoin: various minfee_modes * r7ffbfa..b26141 bitcoind-personal/ (217 files in 29 dirs): (93 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3qg66dg
4341 2011-05-25 22:31:50 <luke-jr> sipa: ^
4342 2011-05-25 22:32:00 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
4343 2011-05-25 22:32:01 Tritonio has joined
4344 2011-05-25 22:34:17 kensai7 has quit ()
4345 2011-05-25 22:34:21 <sipa> luke-jr: that's not exactly right, nBytes may be over 1000 bytes, causing GetMinFee to return more than MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE
4346 2011-05-25 22:34:56 Juffo-Wup has joined
4347 2011-05-25 22:36:23 <sipa> i'm leaving it for now - but a reworking of the fee-calculation system sounds good for a later version
4348 2011-05-25 22:36:23 <theymos> Wow, there was a 10-block-long reorg (at least) on testnet.
4349 2011-05-25 22:36:50 <sipa> theymos: ask ArtForz
4350 2011-05-25 22:37:09 <bitanarchy> sipa: the client now even reports that I send two time 0.05btc to two separate addresses
4351 2011-05-25 22:37:49 skeledrew has joined
4352 2011-05-25 22:38:06 <sipa> bitanarchy: no time now, but it sounds like something that needs investigating
4353 2011-05-25 22:38:14 <luke-jr> sipa: so it's a bugfix too
4354 2011-05-25 22:38:35 <bitanarchy> the problem needs to be reproduced by someone else first
4355 2011-05-25 22:39:19 diki has quit ()
4356 2011-05-25 22:39:34 <bitanarchy> i'll give it another try tomorrow
4357 2011-05-25 22:39:40 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4358 2011-05-25 22:39:49 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
4359 2011-05-25 22:41:51 <sipa> luke-jr: not according to the policy "without minimal fee, trottling is applied"; that policy may well be reconsidered, but it's not something to be done in -rc5
4360 2011-05-25 22:41:59 Sedra has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
4361 2011-05-25 22:42:28 stahi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4362 2011-05-25 22:42:59 lamuguo has joined
4363 2011-05-25 22:43:01 <luke-jr> sipa: the only case where the difference exists, it would have been rejected earlier anyway
4364 2011-05-25 22:43:03 <lamuguo> hello
4365 2011-05-25 22:43:08 <lamuguo> Have a question related to mining
4366 2011-05-25 22:43:15 <lamuguo> Once get a work
4367 2011-05-25 22:43:31 <lamuguo> The miner filled data[3] with an integer
4368 2011-05-25 22:43:44 <lamuguo> and trying to find a hash with hash[7] = 0
4369 2011-05-25 22:44:12 <lamuguo> If yes, the result will be submitted and a new block will be created, right?
4370 2011-05-25 22:44:59 <lamuguo> My question is: why not brute force to find a data[3], just need 4G hash computation. I don't think it can be reached in some seconds.
4371 2011-05-25 22:45:19 <lamuguo> Sorry, replace("don't", "do"")
4372 2011-05-25 22:45:28 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4373 2011-05-25 22:45:32 <sipa> isn't that exactly what we're doing?
4374 2011-05-25 22:46:26 <lamuguo> But, if the block can be always found very fast
4375 2011-05-25 22:46:41 Tritonio_GR has joined
4376 2011-05-25 22:46:41 <Xenland> anyone know what your MySql Database should look like for running pushpoold?
4377 2011-05-25 22:46:51 Tritonio_GR has quit (Client Quit)
4378 2011-05-25 22:47:09 <jgarzik> Xenland: you control that, with stmt.pwdb and stmt.sharelog, two strings that specify your SQL queries
4379 2011-05-25 22:47:28 <lamuguo> Bitcoin may face problem in EQUALITY
4380 2011-05-25 22:47:34 <jgarzik> Xenland: the default SQL statements may be found at the top of db-*.c
4381 2011-05-25 22:47:45 <jgarzik> lamuguo: I am more equal than you
4382 2011-05-25 22:47:53 <jgarzik> and proud of it
4383 2011-05-25 22:47:54 <tcatm> Xenland: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=WKR8VrMu
4384 2011-05-25 22:47:54 <Xenland> excellent
4385 2011-05-25 22:48:33 <sipa> lamuguo: i have no idea what you mean
4386 2011-05-25 22:48:33 <lamuguo> @jgarzik :-) so all come to compete for the computation power?
4387 2011-05-25 22:48:40 <lamuguo> I guess I can win :-)
4388 2011-05-25 22:48:54 <sipa> please try, if you think you can improve the miner
4389 2011-05-25 22:48:57 <sipa> +s
4390 2011-05-25 22:49:13 <lamuguo> I think I can try to find the result always in 1 second.
4391 2011-05-25 22:49:21 klack has joined
4392 2011-05-25 22:49:30 <Xenland> awsome now if i could get it to initialize the database, continues to say invalid database.engine
4393 2011-05-25 22:49:41 <lamuguo> And you guys can confirm that my algorithm posted above is right. Right?
4394 2011-05-25 22:50:09 Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
4395 2011-05-25 22:50:16 <sipa> lamuguo: you try nonces ("data[3]"), hash the result, and check whether the high 32 bit of the hash become 0, yes
4396 2011-05-25 22:50:30 <lamuguo> Cool. Thanks, guys!
4397 2011-05-25 22:50:44 <sipa> but i've no idea what you're even proposing to change
4398 2011-05-25 22:51:10 <Xenland> any working server.json files or examples? i know pushpool comes with one but the database part has multiple databases; Im not sure if i inclue them all or just the one i selected
4399 2011-05-25 22:51:25 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendfee * rccad9b8077e5 bitcoind-personal/src/main.h: Allow sending (and including) transactions with lower Eligius fees http://tinyurl.com/3b45zjq
4400 2011-05-25 22:52:35 <jgarzik> Xenland: only one set of database settings is permitted (hence the "or"). comment out two, use one.
4401 2011-05-25 22:53:18 <sipa> jgarzik: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/267
4402 2011-05-25 22:53:36 TrekRich has joined
4403 2011-05-25 22:53:43 <TrekRich> hi
4404 2011-05-25 22:54:06 <Xenland> jgarzik: thanks for the confirmation.; Glad im doing something right. What does it mean when i see invalid database engine?
4405 2011-05-25 22:54:24 JRWR has joined
4406 2011-05-25 22:54:33 <Juffo-Wup> man it's a good thing jgarzik wasn't in here last night, i would have been askin' the same questions ;)
4407 2011-05-25 22:54:49 <Juffo-Wup> i suspect invalid database engine means you either gave the wrong name for the db engine you want to use, OR you didn't compile that db engine in
4408 2011-05-25 22:54:50 <Xenland> Im connecting to a remote server then my own computer
4409 2011-05-25 22:55:03 <BlueMatt> sipa: wait "Transactions created with the new minimal fee policy will not be relayed by the network." isnt that the opposite of what we want to do?
4410 2011-05-25 22:55:34 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes, that's describing the current situation
4411 2011-05-25 22:55:42 noagendamarket has joined
4412 2011-05-25 22:55:53 <Xenland> Juffo-Wup: i know i've been buggin the guy from like 9 this morning :P
4413 2011-05-25 22:55:59 <Juffo-Wup> haha nice
4414 2011-05-25 22:56:02 <BlueMatt> I thought the point was, in 0.3.22, that we relay txes with 0.0005 fee, but they remain "free txes"
4415 2011-05-25 22:56:07 <Xenland> I'll return the annoyces with some manual pages on the forums after i figure it out tho
4416 2011-05-25 22:56:14 <Juffo-Wup> that'll be cool
4417 2011-05-25 22:56:17 <Juffo-Wup> i figure i might do a little writeup too
4418 2011-05-25 22:56:32 <Juffo-Wup> i'm mainly just doing this for the fun of it; might start a semi-private pool for some friends and internet-friends
4419 2011-05-25 22:56:43 <Juffo-Wup> no major point to it
4420 2011-05-25 22:56:54 legion050 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
4421 2011-05-25 22:56:55 <Xenland> For sure mate, this thing is complicated i don't want anybody choking a bitch out over something like getting pushpool started
4422 2011-05-25 22:56:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes, that's exactly it
4423 2011-05-25 22:57:10 <sipa> BlueMatt: for relaying we use the new rule, for creation the old one
4424 2011-05-25 22:57:11 <BlueMatt> sipa: ah, then the commit and the code are unclear
4425 2011-05-25 22:57:32 <TrekRich> is there any point in getting started with bitcoin using only cpu power?
4426 2011-05-25 22:57:36 <Xenland> Im installing mysql on my comp just in case. Even tho its a remote server
4427 2011-05-25 22:57:45 <sipa> TrekRich: sure, as long as you don't want to mine
4428 2011-05-25 22:57:57 <BlueMatt> MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE <- shouldnt that be the fee required for it to be relayed?
4429 2011-05-25 22:58:03 eoss has joined
4430 2011-05-25 22:58:05 <Xenland> Juffo-Wup: i would like to get figure this out, so i can start a Mining Farm Pool
4431 2011-05-25 22:58:18 <TrekRich> and what does mining get me?
4432 2011-05-25 22:58:21 <Juffo-Wup> farm?
4433 2011-05-25 22:58:23 <TrekRich> coin?
4434 2011-05-25 22:58:24 <Juffo-Wup> ohh
4435 2011-05-25 22:58:24 <Juffo-Wup> lol
4436 2011-05-25 22:58:25 <Juffo-Wup> yeah
4437 2011-05-25 22:58:26 <sipa> BlueMatt: refresh :)
4438 2011-05-25 22:58:36 <jgarzik> sip
4439 2011-05-25 22:58:37 <Xenland> Yeah it will farm a bunch of computers but others online will be able to join for some profits too!
4440 2011-05-25 22:58:39 legion050 has joined
4441 2011-05-25 22:58:42 <jgarzik> sipa: this seems backwards?
4442 2011-05-25 22:58:43 <jgarzik> static const int64 MIN_TX_FEE = 50000;
4443 2011-05-25 22:58:44 <jgarzik> 33
4444 2011-05-25 22:58:44 <jgarzik> +static const int64 MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE = CENT;
4445 2011-05-25 22:58:51 <sipa> jgarzik: refresh :)
4446 2011-05-25 22:59:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: can you also change the commitmsg?
4447 2011-05-25 22:59:34 <jgarzik> sipa: ACK
4448 2011-05-25 22:59:38 <sipa> the commit message is right, no?
4449 2011-05-25 22:59:43 <Xenland> I'll probubly end up making a website for pushpool just so people come to my mining farm becuase they'll know I know whats up hehe
4450 2011-05-25 22:59:44 <sipa> or you mean it's unclear?
4451 2011-05-25 22:59:50 Cusipzzz has joined
4452 2011-05-25 22:59:55 <Xenland> you know a whole website for tutorials on installing
4453 2011-05-25 23:00:00 <BlueMatt> sipa: "Transactions created with the new minimal fee policy will not be relayed by the network."
4454 2011-05-25 23:00:04 <BlueMatt> should that not be reversed?
4455 2011-05-25 23:00:09 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4456 2011-05-25 23:00:20 <BlueMatt> they will be relayed but not blocked
4457 2011-05-25 23:00:22 <jgarzik> sipa: this warrants a forum post (and maybe an email ptr to that note, to Gavin)
4458 2011-05-25 23:00:36 <sipa> BlueMatt: i'll turn that into *would* not be relayed by the network
4459 2011-05-25 23:00:59 TrekRich has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4460 2011-05-25 23:01:08 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: was this not the original intent of the whole fee thing...I believe it was based on the irc discussion, though I didint follow the forum one...
4461 2011-05-25 23:01:23 devrandom has joined
4462 2011-05-25 23:01:33 <theymos> I didn't get a chance to test it, but BBE testnet should now handle reorgs of any size. Mainnet will still die on reorgs>=5 blocks.
4463 2011-05-25 23:01:36 <BlueMatt> though, yes, gavin should be sent an email
4464 2011-05-25 23:02:04 eao has joined
4465 2011-05-25 23:02:33 <Xenland> hey juffo-wup you did you say you got pushpool running?
4466 2011-05-25 23:02:42 <Juffo-Wup> yeah
4467 2011-05-25 23:02:50 <Xenland> do you mind sending me your server.json file?
4468 2011-05-25 23:02:54 <Juffo-Wup> sure j/sec
4469 2011-05-25 23:03:04 <Xenland> cool
4470 2011-05-25 23:03:34 <sipa> BlueMatt, jgarzik: any of you care to take care of the rest? i need sleep now
4471 2011-05-25 23:03:42 <sipa> otherwise it'll be for tomorrow
4472 2011-05-25 23:03:45 <BlueMatt> can jgarzik?
4473 2011-05-25 23:03:56 psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4474 2011-05-25 23:04:08 <BlueMatt> it should be for tomorrow anyway...at least not be pulled until gavin has had a chance to NACK
4475 2011-05-25 23:04:10 devrandom1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4476 2011-05-25 23:04:20 <BlueMatt> (though I doubt he would)
4477 2011-05-25 23:06:58 IncitatusOnWater has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4478 2011-05-25 23:07:22 <lamuguo> That is simple, like I can run 1000 machines to compute at the same time
4479 2011-05-25 23:07:45 stuhood has left ()
4480 2011-05-25 23:08:02 <lamuguo> The master machine just need to allocate ranges for slave machines.
4481 2011-05-25 23:08:34 <lamuguo> With that, each machine just need to compute out about 5M result in 1 second. Which looks not that critical to reach. Right?
4482 2011-05-25 23:08:38 TbbW has joined
4483 2011-05-25 23:08:46 kwtm has joined
4484 2011-05-25 23:08:50 * TbbW lurks
4485 2011-05-25 23:09:01 <kwtm> Is this the correct channel to ask about technicalities of bitcoin?
4486 2011-05-25 23:09:26 <BlueMatt> kwtm: try #bitcoin if they are unable to answer, come back here
4487 2011-05-25 23:11:06 klack has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4488 2011-05-25 23:11:38 <sipa> lamuguo: ok, so you're able to find one share with 1000 computers in 1s
4489 2011-05-25 23:11:45 <sipa> that's nothing special
4490 2011-05-25 23:12:02 <sipa> except a huge waste of electricity
4491 2011-05-25 23:12:31 <XX01XX> An everonyone's autotrades kick in
4492 2011-05-25 23:13:09 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
4493 2011-05-25 23:13:10 <jmpespxoreax> ?
4494 2011-05-25 23:13:28 <gjs278> coins at $8
4495 2011-05-25 23:13:30 kermit has joined
4496 2011-05-25 23:13:41 <sipa> 8.6
4497 2011-05-25 23:13:45 <BlueMatt> no thats just one huge buy
4498 2011-05-25 23:13:58 <BlueMatt> mtgox doesnt do it instantly, but over a period of a couple seconds...unless its huge...
4499 2011-05-25 23:13:58 <gjs278> doesnt matter
4500 2011-05-25 23:14:10 <BlueMatt> hot damn, 8.5
4501 2011-05-25 23:14:20 <gjs278> yeah
4502 2011-05-25 23:14:34 <sipa> back to 7.9999
4503 2011-05-25 23:14:36 <Juffo-Wup> uhhh
4504 2011-05-25 23:14:37 <Juffo-Wup> May25 23:06:18 mtgox 7.1020 @ 8.6009 USD
4505 2011-05-25 23:14:38 <Juffo-Wup> <gribble> May25 23:06:52 mtgox 6.2500 @ 7.9999 USD
4506 2011-05-25 23:14:38 <BlueMatt> and...7.999
4507 2011-05-25 23:14:39 <Juffo-Wup> market glitch?
4508 2011-05-25 23:14:49 <BlueMatt> Juffo-Wup: no, just spread
4509 2011-05-25 23:14:52 <gjs278> sell is definitely still 8.5 for me on mtgox
4510 2011-05-25 23:15:05 <gjs278> lol 8.63
4511 2011-05-25 23:15:11 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4512 2011-05-25 23:15:14 <Juffo-Wup> ahh
4513 2011-05-25 23:15:24 <jeremid> ;;bc,mtgox
4514 2011-05-25 23:15:25 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.64,"low":7.213,"vol":49687,"buy":8.51,"sell":8.64,"last":8.64}}
4515 2011-05-25 23:15:30 <jeremid> its up!!!
4516 2011-05-25 23:15:40 <jmpespxoreax> where do you guys get this information? is there some #channel?
4517 2011-05-25 23:15:45 <gjs278> the website
4518 2011-05-25 23:15:52 <gjs278> mtgox.com
4519 2011-05-25 23:15:52 <BlueMatt> jmpespxoreax: #bitcoin-market
4520 2011-05-25 23:15:53 <dinox> jmpespxoreax: #bitcoin-market
4521 2011-05-25 23:16:00 <dinox> hehe
4522 2011-05-25 23:16:06 <dinox> 1 sec too late
4523 2011-05-25 23:16:06 <BlueMatt> I win
4524 2011-05-25 23:16:07 <jmpespxoreax> is that some sort of automated ticker like thing?
4525 2011-05-25 23:16:13 <BlueMatt> yea
4526 2011-05-25 23:16:23 <jmpespxoreax> neat
4527 2011-05-25 23:16:24 <jeremid> any security patches would increase the confidence in bitcoin - since users will see that in a worst case scenario they just need to upgrade.. like getting a vaccination to avoid a small chance of rubella
4528 2011-05-25 23:16:31 <jmpespxoreax> I joined, I'll idle here
4529 2011-05-25 23:16:32 devrandom1 has joined
4530 2011-05-25 23:16:38 <dinox> I have 30s delay on #bitcoin-market though...
4531 2011-05-25 23:16:47 <jmpespxoreax> That's ok, it's still neat
4532 2011-05-25 23:17:08 <jeremid> it would shift the frame from "maybe some shadowy person can steal my coins" to "wow its almost impossible to mess w/my coins"
4533 2011-05-25 23:17:56 <jeremid> known unknowns and all that
4534 2011-05-25 23:21:55 NickelBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4535 2011-05-25 23:22:11 Ramen has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4536 2011-05-25 23:22:14 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
4537 2011-05-25 23:23:34 <JRWR> is bitcoin able to work over the i2p network
4538 2011-05-25 23:23:45 <erbs> yesa
4539 2011-05-25 23:24:15 NickelBot has joined
4540 2011-05-25 23:24:18 <JRWR> How Thought? does it auto detect it, does it use BOB?
4541 2011-05-25 23:24:19 klack has joined
4542 2011-05-25 23:24:32 <TbbW> anyone know why bitcoins will never go above 21milion in total quantity ?
4543 2011-05-25 23:24:55 <jercos> TbbW: Because that was the cosen number.
4544 2011-05-25 23:24:56 <BlueMatt> because they are designed not to?
4545 2011-05-25 23:25:00 <jercos> chosen*
4546 2011-05-25 23:25:06 <BlueMatt> TbbW: a better question for #bitcoin ;)
4547 2011-05-25 23:25:11 <erbs> TbbW: its an arbitrary limit (based on the number of times a 32-bit (or 64-bit) register can divide a coin)
4548 2011-05-25 23:25:15 <jercos> The system was explicitly and intentionally designed to stop at that number.
4549 2011-05-25 23:25:17 <erbs> or something like that
4550 2011-05-25 23:25:48 <tcatm> the limit is rather implicit than explicit :)
4551 2011-05-25 23:25:50 <TbbW> so there will be no more blocks when it reaches that value or no reward for block solving when it reaches 21mill ?
4552 2011-05-25 23:26:17 <BlueMatt> TbbW: the intro/wiki would be good to read
4553 2011-05-25 23:26:17 <TbbW> or impossible to solve the blocks ?
4554 2011-05-25 23:26:27 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,wiki
4555 2011-05-25 23:26:28 <gribble> https://bitcoin.it/ | Apr 8, 2011 ... Contains a number of articles about BitCoin wallets, mining, trading, myths and other useful information.
4556 2011-05-25 23:26:41 <luke-jr> TbbW: because Satoshi picked it
4557 2011-05-25 23:26:51 <luke-jr> TbbW: blocks won't carry a reward
4558 2011-05-25 23:27:00 <TbbW> ok :P
4559 2011-05-25 23:29:20 AStove has quit ()
4560 2011-05-25 23:29:30 Ummon has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4561 2011-05-25 23:30:57 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, sipa: for tomorrow, then
4562 2011-05-25 23:30:58 <jgarzik> :)
4563 2011-05-25 23:31:08 <BlueMatt> :)
4564 2011-05-25 23:31:14 * jgarzik continues to juggle kernels and babies
4565 2011-05-25 23:31:24 <jgarzik> maybe geese, one day
4566 2011-05-25 23:31:47 <BlueMatt> lol, life is a constant isnt it?
4567 2011-05-25 23:31:47 Juffo-Wup has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4568 2011-05-25 23:32:10 <lfm> sipa you there?
4569 2011-05-25 23:32:19 <BlueMatt> to bed, I believe
4570 2011-05-25 23:32:32 <Xenland> jgarzik: if i need to use mysql, i should have compiled it with mysql develpment files already installed huh?
4571 2011-05-25 23:32:45 <jgarzik> Xenland: :)
4572 2011-05-25 23:33:06 <lfm> k, I think I know whats wrong with the diff calc, it is only when it converts to the double value that it is throwing away too much significance
4573 2011-05-25 23:33:09 <Xenland> wow. i need to go to linux school, its like i know what im doing but i never... know what im doing... thanks mate
4574 2011-05-25 23:35:34 <lfm> bluematt you want me to try to work up a patch for it? the only change would be it would report the difficulty value slightly different. the binary targets and all would be unchanged
4575 2011-05-25 23:36:01 <BlueMatt> lfm: if you want...I dont care, but it is a bug nonetheless
4576 2011-05-25 23:39:09 ezl has joined
4577 2011-05-25 23:39:15 <jgarzik> lfm: that would be helpful, sure
4578 2011-05-25 23:40:08 Kiba` has joined
4579 2011-05-25 23:41:04 Juffo-Wup has joined
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4586 2011-05-25 23:47:16 lolol has joined
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4588 2011-05-25 23:49:18 <jeremid> guys btc is through the roof
4589 2011-05-25 23:49:37 <jeremid> they just pasted the ticker
4590 2011-05-25 23:49:42 <jeremid> its at $9
4591 2011-05-25 23:49:52 <jeremid> this is awesome
4592 2011-05-25 23:49:53 <BlueMatt> /join #bitcoin-market <- live stream
4593 2011-05-25 23:50:01 <BlueMatt> also ,,bc,mtgox
4594 2011-05-25 23:50:02 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.33,"low":7.2161,"vol":62064,"buy":8.997,"sell":9.1,"last":8.7999}}
4595 2011-05-25 23:50:11 <BlueMatt> then gribble gives us the ticker, (hes a bot)
4596 2011-05-25 23:50:16 zq has joined
4597 2011-05-25 23:50:20 <gjs278> gribble is overloaded right now
4598 2011-05-25 23:50:26 <gjs278> you can't ask him anything
4599 2011-05-25 23:50:42 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,stats
4600 2011-05-25 23:50:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 126759 | Current Difficulty: 244139.48158254 | Next Difficulty At Block: 127007 | Next Difficulty In: 248 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 20 hours, 48 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 424187.50084297
4601 2011-05-25 23:50:53 <gjs278> stop that you'll crash the market
4602 2011-05-25 23:50:59 <gjs278> if the bot goes down the fun is over
4603 2011-05-25 23:52:47 <tcatm> BlueMatt: js-remote v0.3.5 supports subcents (IIRC you asked me about that a few weeks ago)
4604 2011-05-25 23:53:10 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ah, cool thanks
4605 2011-05-25 23:53:12 <BlueMatt> yes, that was me
4606 2011-05-25 23:53:59 <luke-jr> there's also #bitcoin-watch
4607 2011-05-25 23:54:38 <tcatm> loadavg of bitcoincharts is 1.88
4608 2011-05-25 23:54:54 <tcatm> > 820 visitors
4609 2011-05-25 23:55:39 <gjs278> construct additional pylons