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16 2011-05-30 00:18:13 <fabianhjr> WTB Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon® Complete Pack + Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Conviction⢠Deluxe Edition for 2.5 BTC.
17 2011-05-30 00:18:20 <fabianhjr> Steam edition.
18 2011-05-30 00:18:23 <fabianhjr> It is on discount.
19 2011-05-30 00:18:52 <fabianhjr> It won't last long, name your price.
20 2011-05-30 00:19:44 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
21 2011-05-30 00:20:03 <fabianhjr> Also Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® Collection
22 2011-05-30 00:20:10 <fabianhjr> Anybody?
23 2011-05-30 00:21:29 <fabianhjr> theymos, jgarzik ?
24 2011-05-30 00:21:33 dubious is now known as zirconium
25 2011-05-30 00:21:45 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * r428c382129a7 bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: include (non-collected) sub-cent change (if any) in (temporary) fee variable, just in case that makes a difference http://tinyurl.com/3uqkukd
26 2011-05-30 00:21:47 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * r34de4dcf2db0 bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: Merge branch 'reportNecessarySubcentThrowaway' into eligius_sendonly http://tinyurl.com/3uhq4r3
27 2011-05-30 00:21:48 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * r029dabbecd80 bitcoind-personal/src/ (main.cpp main.h): Use Eligius fee schedule and direct fees to only go to Eligius (This should make transactions only be processed by Eligius) http://tinyurl.com/3hy5ber
28 2011-05-30 00:25:03 da2ce7 has joined
29 2011-05-30 00:25:22 zirconium is now known as dubiuos
30 2011-05-30 00:25:27 dubiuos is now known as dubious
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36 2011-05-30 00:34:31 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r5b42c1b / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Bill Gates can suck my dick - http://bit.ly/mdTuI1
37 2011-05-30 00:35:15 <hybriz_> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10553.0
38 2011-05-30 00:35:36 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
39 2011-05-30 00:35:42 <hybriz_> if by wednesday i dont hear from mybitcoin.com, i'll disclose the vulnerability details
40 2011-05-30 00:35:56 <hybriz_> just FYI
41 2011-05-30 00:36:42 <dubious> anyone get bmc to work?
42 2011-05-30 00:37:08 <noagendamarket> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10553.new#new anyone contact mybitcoin and tell them about this thread ?
43 2011-05-30 00:38:14 johnnympereira5 has joined
44 2011-05-30 00:46:46 <upb> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git/commitdiff/029dabbecd8092e6f6f0eeaad0e06fb750eaafe3
45 2011-05-30 00:46:56 <upb> lol i hope this never gets merged into the release branch :)
46 2011-05-30 00:47:47 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
47 2011-05-30 00:48:28 <luke-jr> upb: me too ;)
48 2011-05-30 00:48:32 ezl has quit (Quit: Leaving)
49 2011-05-30 00:48:33 <luke-jr> upb: I was asked for it tho
50 2011-05-30 00:49:38 <fabianhjr> luke want to sell me ome Steam games for BTC?
51 2011-05-30 00:50:59 <luke-jr> fabianhjr: just Civ5
52 2011-05-30 00:51:14 <fabianhjr> No, the Tom's Discount! D:
53 2011-05-30 00:51:25 <fabianhjr> It is right now. Just ask your price, please!
54 2011-05-30 00:51:44 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * r48f3b7770e32 bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: Merge branch 'reportNecessarySubcentThrowaway' into eligius_sendonly http://tinyurl.com/3o2v477
55 2011-05-30 00:51:45 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * r3026dca5a6a6 bitcoind-personal/src/ (main.cpp main.h): Use Eligius fee schedule and direct fees to only go to Eligius (This should make transactions only be processed by Eligius) http://tinyurl.com/3ksrolj
56 2011-05-30 00:51:49 <luke-jr> never touched Steam, never want to
57 2011-05-30 00:52:12 <fabianhjr> Damn, can you reefer me to a proxy seller?
58 2011-05-30 00:52:17 <luke-jr> no
59 2011-05-30 00:52:37 <fabianhjr> noagendamarket: do you know any proxy seller or do you want to sell me some Steam Games?
60 2011-05-30 00:53:04 <noagendamarket> theres a few steam game sellers
61 2011-05-30 00:53:31 <fabianhjr> Yes, though non online right now. I want to geet the game on discount. xD
62 2011-05-30 00:53:40 <fabianhjr> It is Ubisoft's Week.
63 2011-05-30 00:54:01 <fabianhjr> Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Conviction⢠Deluxe Edition 8.5 USD offer 1 BTC
64 2011-05-30 00:54:06 <fabianhjr> Please
65 2011-05-30 00:54:22 diki has joined
66 2011-05-30 00:55:30 <noagendamarket> I dont even have a steam account :)-
67 2011-05-30 00:55:42 stuhood1 has joined
68 2011-05-30 00:56:31 <diki> steam sucks
69 2011-05-30 00:56:32 <diki> period
70 2011-05-30 00:56:40 broker has quit (Quit: zisch)
71 2011-05-30 00:56:56 <fabianhjr> xD
72 2011-05-30 00:57:05 <fabianhjr> diki: I DON"T CARE!
73 2011-05-30 00:57:10 <fabianhjr> I only care about a new game.
74 2011-05-30 00:57:11 stuhood has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
75 2011-05-30 00:57:19 <fabianhjr> Perfectly a baddass game at a low price
76 2011-05-30 00:57:26 <diki> how low?
77 2011-05-30 00:58:11 <fabianhjr> Spilnter Cell conviction right now has 66% off for a total 8.5 USD.
78 2011-05-30 00:58:20 <fabianhjr> The Deluxe Edition
79 2011-05-30 00:58:28 <diki> sounds like a crappy game
80 2011-05-30 00:58:43 <fabianhjr> Sounds like a game I am willing to pay 85 USD for.
81 2011-05-30 00:59:08 <fabianhjr> Comon, I am addicted to Minecraft! What can be worse than ending up wasting a few bucks on a game I may or may not like?
82 2011-05-30 00:59:20 <fabianhjr> As a matter of fact, I always liked that franchise.
83 2011-05-30 00:59:32 <fabianhjr> diki: what is your sort of game?
84 2011-05-30 01:00:11 <diki> FPS, Sci-Fi
85 2011-05-30 01:00:13 mmoya has joined
86 2011-05-30 01:00:14 <diki> that's my type
87 2011-05-30 01:00:55 <diki> only three games fall under this cat
88 2011-05-30 01:01:07 <fabianhjr> Splinter has some Scifi like a device that convines infra-red and thermal camera inputs into a single feed + a personal sonar.
89 2011-05-30 01:01:11 <diki> Crysis 1, Singularity and Crysis 2 ofc
90 2011-05-30 01:01:19 <fabianhjr> And it is a shooter/adventure.
91 2011-05-30 01:01:26 <fabianhjr> I already have finished them.
92 2011-05-30 01:01:31 sethsethseth____ has joined
93 2011-05-30 01:01:37 <fabianhjr> Except Singularity, maybe I will buy it.
94 2011-05-30 01:01:39 fping has joined
95 2011-05-30 01:01:41 sethsethseth____ is now known as sethsethseth_
96 2011-05-30 01:01:49 <diki> why buy tho?
97 2011-05-30 01:01:50 <fabianhjr> I always liked games with time/portal puzzles. xD
98 2011-05-30 01:01:58 <diki> Just download it
99 2011-05-30 01:02:23 <fabianhjr> Because I can afford it + I have tons of multiplayer support.
100 2011-05-30 01:02:27 <x5x> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/business/economy/30views.html?_r=1
101 2011-05-30 01:02:40 <fabianhjr> + for instance CryMod for Crysis 2.
102 2011-05-30 01:02:41 sethsethseth__ has joined
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104 2011-05-30 01:02:45 <diki> Trust me, those games if they had multi, it's dead by now
105 2011-05-30 01:02:58 <fabianhjr> For gods sake, I finished the damn Crysis 2 Game in Februry, before the game was even released. xD
106 2011-05-30 01:03:05 <diki> the only game i ever bought was crysis 2 for 16 bucks, and minecraft
107 2011-05-30 01:03:19 <fabianhjr> Hey, want to set up a minecraft server?
108 2011-05-30 01:03:30 <diki> too busy setting up a pool
109 2011-05-30 01:03:41 <fabianhjr> No, like do you want to join my server? xD
110 2011-05-30 01:03:46 fping has quit (Client Quit)
111 2011-05-30 01:03:50 <fabianhjr> nvm
112 2011-05-30 01:03:56 <diki> Playing games requires gpu
113 2011-05-30 01:04:00 <diki> GPU = mining
114 2011-05-30 01:04:05 <diki> and i have a single 5850
115 2011-05-30 01:04:06 djoot has joined
116 2011-05-30 01:04:08 <fabianhjr> Damn, a lot of miners have given up.
117 2011-05-30 01:04:11 <diki> but that will change pretty soon
118 2011-05-30 01:04:22 djoot has quit (Changing host)
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120 2011-05-30 01:04:22 <fabianhjr> I have a single 5870 and I ain't complaining
121 2011-05-30 01:04:35 <diki> you are getting near 400 mhash/s
122 2011-05-30 01:04:48 <fabianhjr> + I always play all games maxed out in-game and by the CCC-AI Tuning.
123 2011-05-30 01:04:48 <diki> mine is 270
124 2011-05-30 01:04:55 <fabianhjr> Not really.
125 2011-05-30 01:05:08 <fabianhjr> I have a normal clock right now because of heat issues.
126 2011-05-30 01:05:18 <fabianhjr> In winter I had 340 steady though.
127 2011-05-30 01:05:26 guest has quit (Quit: Page closed)
128 2011-05-30 01:05:31 <diki> what flags do you use?
129 2011-05-30 01:05:56 <fabianhjr> -v -w 128 poclbm
130 2011-05-30 01:06:02 <diki> ah, i see
131 2011-05-30 01:06:15 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
132 2011-05-30 01:06:20 <diki> i am planning to get another card, but it's going to be either another 5850 or a 6950
133 2011-05-30 01:06:21 <fabianhjr> Why is there a better configuration?
134 2011-05-30 01:06:35 <fabianhjr> Get a 5870, more worthy. xD
135 2011-05-30 01:06:39 <diki> so far, 6950 wins
136 2011-05-30 01:06:54 <diki> not it's watt per mhash
137 2011-05-30 01:08:05 <fabianhjr> :/
138 2011-05-30 01:08:18 bittrader has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
139 2011-05-30 01:08:26 <fabianhjr> Get a fracking Cray GPU Blade then.
140 2011-05-30 01:08:47 <fabianhjr> You can slam 8x times more nvidias GPUs and have way more hashes per square meter.
141 2011-05-30 01:08:52 stuhood has joined
142 2011-05-30 01:10:03 traviscj has joined
143 2011-05-30 01:10:07 <fabianhjr> Damn, should we change the difficulty to be recalced every day at 00 GMT instead of every 2100 blocks. We are getting stuck and payments don't go trough.
144 2011-05-30 01:11:08 <anarchyx> is there any miner network code public?
145 2011-05-30 01:11:14 <anarchyx> deepbit seems down again
146 2011-05-30 01:12:21 stuhood1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
147 2011-05-30 01:14:35 <fabianhjr> Like, an open source pool? Not yet
148 2011-05-30 01:17:20 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
149 2011-05-30 01:18:30 stuhood has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
150 2011-05-30 01:18:54 WakiMiko has joined
151 2011-05-30 01:19:17 <diki> wait a minute
152 2011-05-30 01:19:33 <diki> does a 6950 actually have a TDP of 200 watts???
153 2011-05-30 01:20:25 fabianhjr_ has joined
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155 2011-05-30 01:21:41 black888 has joined
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158 2011-05-30 01:23:22 fabianhjr_ is now known as fabianhjr
159 2011-05-30 01:23:41 <fabianhjr> Yes it has it
160 2011-05-30 01:23:50 <Diablo-D3> diki: yes
161 2011-05-30 01:24:00 <Diablo-D3> upvolted and upclocked, its closer to 250
162 2011-05-30 01:24:11 johnnympereira5 has joined
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164 2011-05-30 01:25:45 Kiba has joined
165 2011-05-30 01:26:07 <diki> i hope it at least makes up for the high wattage
166 2011-05-30 01:26:21 <diki> i see in the comparison table the 1GB does about ~310 mhash/s
167 2011-05-30 01:26:26 wolfspraul has joined
168 2011-05-30 01:26:51 <Diablo-D3> diki: mine performs better on 69xx than anyone else
169 2011-05-30 01:26:59 <Diablo-D3> so the numbers are mostly bs
170 2011-05-30 01:27:18 <diki> huh?
171 2011-05-30 01:27:23 <diki> what performs on what?
172 2011-05-30 01:28:00 <Diablo-D3> 69xx
173 2011-05-30 01:28:42 <diki> your 69XX performs...?
174 2011-05-30 01:28:55 <Diablo-D3> I dont have a 69xx
175 2011-05-30 01:29:04 <luke-jr> when you send a txn, how does the receiving address get in the address book?
176 2011-05-30 01:29:12 <diki> then i have absolutely no idea what you want to say diablo
177 2011-05-30 01:30:00 <Diablo-D3> diki: are you retarded?
178 2011-05-30 01:30:06 <diki> are you?
179 2011-05-30 01:30:14 <diki> You havent mentioned what you are talking about
180 2011-05-30 01:30:23 <Diablo-D3> the miner known as diablominer performs better on 69xx than any other miner, which includes but is not limited to poclbm and phoenix
181 2011-05-30 01:30:36 <Diablo-D3> if you dont understand that, then get the fuck off my internets
182 2011-05-30 01:30:43 <diki> i see, but i am pretty much used to guiminer at this point
183 2011-05-30 01:30:57 <Diablo-D3> guiminer sucks
184 2011-05-30 01:30:59 <Diablo-D3> too slow
185 2011-05-30 01:32:09 <forexmasterja> what kind of performance does diablo miner give with a 6870
186 2011-05-30 01:32:10 <forexmasterja> ?
187 2011-05-30 01:33:16 <Diablo-D3> forexmasterja: should be around 285, but Im not sure
188 2011-05-30 01:33:21 Xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
189 2011-05-30 01:33:28 <Diablo-D3> no one owns one, so no one has bothered trying to find the optimum settings
190 2011-05-30 01:35:09 <forexmasterja> really (no one owns one) i've been doing a little research and i think that the 6870 is the best value for money coming in at under $200 and generating 300khash
191 2011-05-30 01:35:46 <nixh4ck> u can get 290-300Mhash out of a 5830
192 2011-05-30 01:35:47 <forexmasterja> i can buy 3 6870 for less than one 6990 and generate more
193 2011-05-30 01:36:26 <forexmasterja> nixh4ck yeah but at what price for thee 5830 and can you get them readily ?
194 2011-05-30 01:36:34 <black888> or buy 3 5830 for $300 and generate the same
195 2011-05-30 01:36:36 <nixh4ck> yep there are tons of them, like $100
196 2011-05-30 01:36:59 <Diablo-D3> 5830 are fucking shit
197 2011-05-30 01:37:04 <Diablo-D3> I wish people would stop buying them
198 2011-05-30 01:37:13 <nixh4ck> explain
199 2011-05-30 01:37:35 <Diablo-D3> hashes slower than a 5850, uses about as much power as a 5870, has vastly undersized hsf for their watt usage
200 2011-05-30 01:37:49 <nixh4ck> yea i did know about the power use
201 2011-05-30 01:37:57 <black888> everything that's not called diablominer is shit
202 2011-05-30 01:38:17 <forexmasterja> yeah explain, i dont c why u say they r shit ? if they can calculate and gen the hashes i dont care what model they are
203 2011-05-30 01:38:20 <diki> ;;bc,gen 277480
204 2011-05-30 01:38:20 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 277480 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 0.641775920463 BTC per day and 0.0267406633526 BTC per hour.
205 2011-05-30 01:38:21 <nixh4ck> but for just hashrate its the cheapest
206 2011-05-30 01:38:24 <lfm> I expect the 6990 would have an advantage if you consider the price of the whole system(s)
207 2011-05-30 01:39:02 <forexmasterja> lfm how would u figure that ?
208 2011-05-30 01:39:05 Clarence has joined
209 2011-05-30 01:39:38 <forexmasterja> lfm that cant make sense the gpu is the only major concern the rest of the generating system is cheap and not important
210 2011-05-30 01:39:49 <lfm> forexmasterja: consider price of mb, cpu, ram, and ps to make the gpus run
211 2011-05-30 01:39:50 <nixh4ck> go here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison look at the models you are interested in, then look at the prices at your local store to get Mh/$
212 2011-05-30 01:40:01 <diki> srsly what is going on with slush
213 2011-05-30 01:40:01 <diki> Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC
214 2011-05-30 01:40:03 <diki> Problems communicating with bitcoin RPC
215 2011-05-30 01:40:16 <black888> its down diki
216 2011-05-30 01:40:27 <diki> it's not down, not yet at least
217 2011-05-30 01:40:34 <diki> i do get work
218 2011-05-30 01:40:50 fabianhjr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
219 2011-05-30 01:40:56 <forexmasterja> nixh4ck Hey thanks man for this new found info on the 5830's man i want like a 100 of these :) are you sure they can put out the 300khash ?
220 2011-05-30 01:41:17 <black888> 5850s aren't cheap anymore
221 2011-05-30 01:41:19 eamon has joined
222 2011-05-30 01:41:28 <lfm> 300 khash would be pretty useless
223 2011-05-30 01:41:33 <black888> tigerdirect was selling them for $150
224 2011-05-30 01:41:42 <black888> not anymore
225 2011-05-30 01:41:50 fabianhjr has joined
226 2011-05-30 01:42:15 <eamon> I heard that [Tycho] has gone awol and stole all the rewards from deepbit
227 2011-05-30 01:42:24 <nixh4ck> forexmasterja: you have to overclock to get to 300, 310 is highest reported i've seen. i can easily get 290 with stock cooler/fans.. stock clocks produce 240 for me
228 2011-05-30 01:43:17 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
229 2011-05-30 01:43:38 <lfm> i expect you ment 300 mhash
230 2011-05-30 01:44:09 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
231 2011-05-30 01:44:10 <nixh4ck> yea thats what I assumed as well ;p
232 2011-05-30 01:44:38 <forexmasterja> yeah sorry bout that.
233 2011-05-30 01:44:48 <[Tycho]> eamon, so you are the scammer ?
234 2011-05-30 01:45:04 <nixh4ck> lol
235 2011-05-30 01:45:05 <iz> so what about the 5970? seems like a sweet spot from that mining hardware comparison data
236 2011-05-30 01:45:07 <eamon> scammer?
237 2011-05-30 01:45:23 <eamon> Did you get scammed [Tycho]? lol
238 2011-05-30 01:45:38 <eamon> What happened?
239 2011-05-30 01:45:40 <[Tycho]> No, but I see you telling lies.
240 2011-05-30 01:46:23 <eamon> I'm not lying. This is what I heard, don't go throwin accusations around
241 2011-05-30 01:46:46 <lfm> eamon you're just repeating the lie?
242 2011-05-30 01:47:10 <eamon> Is there any truth to it?
243 2011-05-30 01:47:18 <eamon> How do you know it's a lie?
244 2011-05-30 01:47:35 <forexmasterja> ok what about the stream output on the cards, is that very important to watch ?
245 2011-05-30 01:47:37 <lfm> well he is obviously no awol so the rest of your rumor seems suspect as well
246 2011-05-30 01:47:56 <eamon> The site is offline...
247 2011-05-30 01:48:07 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
248 2011-05-30 01:48:36 <eamon> Surely someone making $1000 a day can afford backups
249 2011-05-30 01:49:00 <lfm> oh ho more rumors! hehe
250 2011-05-30 01:49:16 <[Tycho]> How a backup can help against a DDoS ?
251 2011-05-30 01:49:39 <lfm> eamon you're ddosing him? why?
252 2011-05-30 01:49:39 <eamon> Spreads out the load
253 2011-05-30 01:50:45 * eamon caresses lfm with a 2 week old salmon fillet
254 2011-05-30 01:50:48 <Diablo-D3> man
255 2011-05-30 01:50:51 <Diablo-D3> I need to get my pool up
256 2011-05-30 01:50:54 <Diablo-D3> so I can take over for [Tycho]
257 2011-05-30 01:50:57 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: you ok?
258 2011-05-30 01:51:20 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: I don't mind stealing your miners, but not this way :/
259 2011-05-30 01:51:39 simkiss has joined
260 2011-05-30 01:51:41 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * r7161f99ae55b bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: Merge branch 'reportNecessarySubcentThrowaway' into eligius_sendonly http://tinyurl.com/44rqhlb
261 2011-05-30 01:51:43 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * rddc25609d72c bitcoind-personal/src/ (main.cpp main.h): Use Eligius fee schedule and direct fees to only go to Eligius (This should make transactions only be processed by Eligius) http://tinyurl.com/3ob5o92
262 2011-05-30 01:51:44 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * r2729b4573989 bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: Report direct-to-Eligius fees as fees rather than sends http://tinyurl.com/44vb85f
263 2011-05-30 01:52:46 <lfm> so which pool is not getting ddosed? eamon is working for that pool!
264 2011-05-30 01:52:57 <[Tycho]> luke-jr, i'm setting up DDoS-protected service now.
265 2011-05-30 01:53:10 <luke-jr> lfm: Eligius isn't I hope :x
266 2011-05-30 01:53:27 <luke-jr> none of the smaller pools seem to be afaik
267 2011-05-30 01:53:38 <eamon> only the pay-to-mine pools are down...
268 2011-05-30 01:53:48 <luke-jr> hmm
269 2011-05-30 01:54:10 <luke-jr> which happen to be the biggest targets
270 2011-05-30 01:54:26 <black888> slush's never recovered as top pool after his down time
271 2011-05-30 01:54:26 * luke-jr hopes [Tycho] gets back online soon before the DDoSer adds other pools
272 2011-05-30 01:54:45 <eamon> actually no, it's just deepbit
273 2011-05-30 01:54:53 <luke-jr> eamon: huh? slush is down, isn't it?
274 2011-05-30 01:54:56 <eamon> I thought slush was down too, but it's not
275 2011-05-30 01:55:05 <luke-jr> it's not on the pie chart..
276 2011-05-30 01:55:10 <eamon> http://chart.googleapis.com/chart?chs=350x200&chd=t:16.88,8.06,61.23,2.63,10.33,0.88&cht=p&chf=bg,s,00000000&chl=slush|btcguild|other|Eligius|btcmine|swepool
277 2011-05-30 01:55:24 <eamon> idk
278 2011-05-30 01:55:43 <forexmasterja> btcmine is up and running fine
279 2011-05-30 01:55:43 <luke-jr> I think probably they just want to kill the difficulty
280 2011-05-30 01:57:04 <eamon> yeah, it probably costs a lot less to ddos deepbit than to double capacity
281 2011-05-30 01:57:49 <lfm> prolly wont work tho. the miners will just go to other poools or solo
282 2011-05-30 01:58:06 <black888> it'll have a small impact on the difficulty not significant it wont be long until majority of miners on deepbit notice it's down
283 2011-05-30 01:58:24 <forexmasterja> lfm exactly cause thats i did as it went down just switch to another pool
284 2011-05-30 02:00:21 amiller has joined
285 2011-05-30 02:00:32 <luke-jr> they should have waited until night time in the USA
286 2011-05-30 02:01:23 <black888> it could be a big solo miner that wants to see the pools gone
287 2011-05-30 02:01:49 <black888> and starts targeting the other pools
288 2011-05-30 02:03:09 mos has joined
289 2011-05-30 02:03:28 sacarlson1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
290 2011-05-30 02:03:41 sacarlson has joined
291 2011-05-30 02:05:00 bittrader has joined
292 2011-05-30 02:05:02 allied has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
293 2011-05-30 02:05:16 <black888> or a competing pool, or somebody that just wants to try an extort tycho
294 2011-05-30 02:05:17 <forexmasterja> OK PSU question which PSU do you suggest for running 2 68xx ?
295 2011-05-30 02:05:57 <Diablo-D3> a hale 90 750 probablt
296 2011-05-30 02:06:00 <black888> forexmasterja, do you already hae 2x6870s?
297 2011-05-30 02:06:04 App3l has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
298 2011-05-30 02:06:10 App3l has joined
299 2011-05-30 02:06:16 <forexmasterja> just ordered them
300 2011-05-30 02:06:22 mosi has quit (work!~mos@217.22.80.82|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
301 2011-05-30 02:06:26 <black888> why the 6870
302 2011-05-30 02:06:35 stuhood has joined
303 2011-05-30 02:07:38 <black888> but yeah 750w is good
304 2011-05-30 02:07:39 <forexmasterja> well i thought it was the best sub $200 card that could generate at least 300mhash
305 2011-05-30 02:08:20 <diki> any ideas why exec-ing bitcoind listtransactions might not work in php?
306 2011-05-30 02:08:21 <black888> 5850 is the best sub $200 card
307 2011-05-30 02:08:45 <forexmasterja> now i've revised that and from the charts the 5830 seems to be the closest to 300mhash at the cheapest price
308 2011-05-30 02:08:59 <Diablo-D3> black888: yes but
309 2011-05-30 02:09:01 <Diablo-D3> YOU CANT BUY THEM ANYMORE
310 2011-05-30 02:09:03 <Diablo-D3> AT ALL
311 2011-05-30 02:09:05 <black888> 5850 can reach 360mhash/s on stock voltage
312 2011-05-30 02:09:16 <Diablo-D3> THE BITCOIN COMMUNITY BOUGHT THEM ALL
313 2011-05-30 02:09:21 <black888> oh
314 2011-05-30 02:09:27 <Diablo-D3> ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
315 2011-05-30 02:09:27 <forexmasterja> exactly that the problem
316 2011-05-30 02:09:35 <Diablo-D3> 68xx are shit though
317 2011-05-30 02:09:39 <Diablo-D3> skip directly to 6950
318 2011-05-30 02:09:41 <diki> there are quite a few in my country
319 2011-05-30 02:09:43 <diki> expensive tho
320 2011-05-30 02:09:43 <black888> id would probably go for the 6950 then
321 2011-05-30 02:09:58 <Diablo-D3> it sucks 68xx is shit too
322 2011-05-30 02:10:00 <iz> diki: maybe because it's wrapped in [ ] ?
323 2011-05-30 02:10:02 <Diablo-D3> because they took the dp shit out
324 2011-05-30 02:10:08 <diki> wrapped ??
325 2011-05-30 02:10:20 <iz> or is a list
326 2011-05-30 02:10:21 <Diablo-D3> diki does not speak english, apparently
327 2011-05-30 02:10:29 <forexmasterja> but i havent seen 6950 for under $200
328 2011-05-30 02:11:14 allied has joined
329 2011-05-30 02:11:24 <diki> well i am not native diablo
330 2011-05-30 02:11:36 <diki> so i dont get american jokes that much
331 2011-05-30 02:11:43 <Diablo-D3> what joke?
332 2011-05-30 02:11:50 <iz> diki: i mean the output from bitcoind listtransactions begins with [ and ends with ]
333 2011-05-30 02:11:52 <black888> wow they really did buy them all
334 2011-05-30 02:12:00 <diki> ah, lol
335 2011-05-30 02:12:04 <Diablo-D3> black888: I think I bought one of the last ones
336 2011-05-30 02:12:05 <fabianhjr> MagicalTux: would you accept a large MXN wire from Mexico?
337 2011-05-30 02:12:09 <diki> i thought you were referring to the cards
338 2011-05-30 02:12:18 <black888> yeah i bought one too
339 2011-05-30 02:12:18 <iz> ah
340 2011-05-30 02:12:24 <diki> Anyway, there is not output to begin with iz
341 2011-05-30 02:12:25 <iz> haha
342 2011-05-30 02:12:26 <fabianhjr> I got a lot of hackers dying for some that don't want to deal with PP/LR.
343 2011-05-30 02:12:42 <MagicalTux> fabianhjr, tell me in private how large
344 2011-05-30 02:12:53 <iz> oh, maybe i misunderstood.. i thought you were execing from the shell, not using json-rpc directly
345 2011-05-30 02:12:57 backwardation25 has joined
346 2011-05-30 02:13:06 <diki> i am doing it via php
347 2011-05-30 02:13:34 <diki> although, now that you mention it, maybe i could try curl
348 2011-05-30 02:13:54 <diki> didnt even think about it
349 2011-05-30 02:13:54 <iz> but are you executing bitcoind listtransactions and then doing something w/ the output from that? or just hitting the json-rpc directly?
350 2011-05-30 02:14:05 <diki> i cant even get output to begin with
351 2011-05-30 02:14:09 <iz> oh
352 2011-05-30 02:14:14 <diki> the program does NOT execute afaik
353 2011-05-30 02:14:22 <diki> and i even did sudo
354 2011-05-30 02:14:27 <diki> with password of course
355 2011-05-30 02:14:33 <diki> it just doesnt and doesnt
356 2011-05-30 02:14:41 <diki> tried with paths, without paths
357 2011-05-30 02:14:52 kika_ has joined
358 2011-05-30 02:14:53 <diki> with ticks, without ticks
359 2011-05-30 02:15:07 <lfm> diki and no error returned?
360 2011-05-30 02:15:14 <iz> well.. prob better to do it w/ jsonrpc directly than trying to run a client in a shell that does that
361 2011-05-30 02:15:35 <lfm> exec doesnt shell (usually)
362 2011-05-30 02:15:47 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, do your miner supports LP on separate port ?
363 2011-05-30 02:15:58 <forexmasterja> Diablo - what brand 5850 do you have ?
364 2011-05-30 02:16:07 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: you have to put a full URL in the x-whatever header
365 2011-05-30 02:16:25 <kika_> what would be the best pool alternative now that deepbit is down ?
366 2011-05-30 02:16:33 <lfm> solo
367 2011-05-30 02:16:49 theorbtwo has joined
368 2011-05-30 02:16:51 <kika_> [Tycho]: do you have an ETA for when deepbit will go up again?
369 2011-05-30 02:16:54 <Diablo-D3> forexmasterja: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125318+
370 2011-05-30 02:16:56 <diki> no error at all
371 2011-05-30 02:17:00 <JRWR> I think the bitcoin guild is teh best alt atm
372 2011-05-30 02:17:09 <diki> using the terminal it does it, everything get's printed
373 2011-05-30 02:17:12 <diki> using php, nada
374 2011-05-30 02:17:18 <[Tycho]> kika_, got mining working, but LP is not ready yet.
375 2011-05-30 02:17:43 <forexmasterja> Diablo and what speed you get from it with your miner ?
376 2011-05-30 02:17:43 <kika_> [Tycho]: the website will go up ?
377 2011-05-30 02:17:45 <black888> the xfx 6950s are defective btw
378 2011-05-30 02:17:53 <Diablo-D3> forexmasterja: currently? 368
379 2011-05-30 02:18:07 <Diablo-D3> xfx ANYTHING is defective
380 2011-05-30 02:18:09 <Diablo-D3> shit brand is shit
381 2011-05-30 02:18:20 <[Tycho]> kika_, yes.
382 2011-05-30 02:18:27 <black888> these are especially defective
383 2011-05-30 02:18:35 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: unlike other miners, mine speaks with a british accent
384 2011-05-30 02:18:56 <forexmasterja> you scaring me now :( i just ordered 2 XFX 6870
385 2011-05-30 02:19:06 <Diablo-D3> forexmasterja: you screwed up
386 2011-05-30 02:19:10 nutcase has quit (Quit: Oh noes the internets broke)
387 2011-05-30 02:19:15 <Diablo-D3> if its not asus, gigabyte, msi, or sapphire, its shit
388 2011-05-30 02:19:24 <forexmasterja> Damn !!
389 2011-05-30 02:19:24 <black888> forexmasterja dont worry unless they were like $50 cheaper than the other brands
390 2011-05-30 02:19:48 <[Tycho]> forexmasterja, should be OK.
391 2011-05-30 02:20:17 dmh has joined
392 2011-05-30 02:20:20 <black888> i have xfx 5770 it hits 1050 mhz on stock voltage it gets 240 mash/s
393 2011-05-30 02:20:21 <io_error> Eh, my non-ref XFX 5850 is pulling 350MH/sec at 900MHz stock volts
394 2011-05-30 02:20:23 <black888> mhash
395 2011-05-30 02:20:38 <Diablo-D3> io_error: sounds about right
396 2011-05-30 02:20:42 <[Tycho]> I have XFX 5970 and it's the best of my 5970s :)
397 2011-05-30 02:20:42 <io_error> Only problem is the fan is loud
398 2011-05-30 02:23:20 Aoyi has joined
399 2011-05-30 02:24:12 Teslah has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
400 2011-05-30 02:24:15 <black888> the problem with xfx is they'll sell defective hardware at a discount
401 2011-05-30 02:24:33 <black888> but not all their cards are defective
402 2011-05-30 02:25:38 DontMindMe has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
403 2011-05-30 02:28:03 skeledrew has joined
404 2011-05-30 02:30:56 <brocktice> So it's DDoS attacks taking down the pools?
405 2011-05-30 02:31:13 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
406 2011-05-30 02:32:35 <stuhood> brocktice: yes
407 2011-05-30 02:34:35 <brocktice> stuhood: I've been discussing this elsewhere, but might several pools share hosting like MT has for MtGox?
408 2011-05-30 02:34:47 <brocktice> I realize it's rather expensive
409 2011-05-30 02:36:52 <stuhood> brocktice: there are ways of defending against this type of ddos⦠i think it's more a matter of the pools growing up
410 2011-05-30 02:37:14 <brocktice> stuhood: yes... and my understanding is that the best way to get such defense is to buy it from an experienced provider.
411 2011-05-30 02:37:42 <stuhood> i'd prefer they didn't collaborate to do so
412 2011-05-30 02:38:00 <stuhood> i expect they're earning more than enough to make it worthwhile
413 2011-05-30 02:38:19 <brocktice> not all pools are deepbit
414 2011-05-30 02:38:34 <eamon> Why do you mine tycho? With deepbit you have a 30Ghash/s farm all to yearself for esentially free
415 2011-05-30 02:39:47 Teslah has joined
416 2011-05-30 02:39:52 <pwrcycle> anyone know how to make this from pushpool always return true: SELECT password FROM pool_worker WHERE username = ?
417 2011-05-30 02:40:45 <brocktice> pwrcycle: do you have any entries in the table?
418 2011-05-30 02:40:50 <pwrcycle> i'm trying to get it to work so a miner can use their address like luke's
419 2011-05-30 02:40:52 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
420 2011-05-30 02:40:55 darkmethod has joined
421 2011-05-30 02:40:56 * JRWR wonders how much BTC he can make with his ATOM 1.60ghz netbook
422 2011-05-30 02:41:07 <brocktice> JRWR: a few, given infinite time
423 2011-05-30 02:41:12 <pwrcycle> brocktice: yes. i have two miners running, but because i setup them up in the DB before hand
424 2011-05-30 02:41:13 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
425 2011-05-30 02:41:24 <pwrcycle> i'd like for any miner to be able to join at any time without setup.
426 2011-05-30 02:41:29 fallingmeat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
427 2011-05-30 02:41:35 <brocktice> pwrcycle: are you using poclbm?
428 2011-05-30 02:41:44 <brocktice> or you mean any person's miner?
429 2011-05-30 02:41:48 <pwrcycle> brocktice: pushpool
430 2011-05-30 02:41:56 <brocktice> no I meant for mining, so I'm guessing not
431 2011-05-30 02:41:57 <JRWR> pwrcycle: why dont you just custom compile, and include the login details into it
432 2011-05-30 02:42:20 <pwrcycle> JRWR: because i don't know c
433 2011-05-30 02:42:22 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
434 2011-05-30 02:42:26 darkmethod has quit (Client Quit)
435 2011-05-30 02:42:29 TheSeven has joined
436 2011-05-30 02:42:31 <brocktice> I must not really understand, becuase if you want people to sign up you'll need to let them register and thereby enter their info in the db
437 2011-05-30 02:42:52 <JRWR> pwrcycle: um you dont really have to, find the -u -p and where they are defined
438 2011-05-30 02:42:56 <JRWR> and make then static :)
439 2011-05-30 02:43:17 darkmethod has joined
440 2011-05-30 02:43:28 <pwrcycle> brocktice: luke-jr's will let you join his with the payaccount as the user and no pass. that's the idea i'm folowing
441 2011-05-30 02:44:04 <brocktice> pwrcycle: so it must be inserting the payaccount. Is he even using pushpool?
442 2011-05-30 02:44:05 <pwrcycle> it could be a totally anonymous pool if users only submitted accounts and never picked user ids or passwords.
443 2011-05-30 02:44:36 <pwrcycle> brocktice: i don't know, but i've heard it's something different.
444 2011-05-30 02:45:05 <brocktice> pwrcycle: yeah that would make sense. If you rig something up so that users can submit an address on a web page, then that gets added to the DB it should be possible.
445 2011-05-30 02:45:16 <brocktice> Or if you hack pushpoold, but it sounds like you're unable to do that.
446 2011-05-30 02:45:22 <pwrcycle> brocktice: i'm trying to totally bypass the web portion.
447 2011-05-30 02:45:37 <diki> fuck yeah, finally works after the gazillion trouble stuff
448 2011-05-30 02:45:39 <brocktice> You'd need to add something to insert the address (username) if it didn't already have an entry.
449 2011-05-30 02:45:42 <diki> it's almost 6AM here]
450 2011-05-30 02:45:49 <brocktice> diki: what, mining?
451 2011-05-30 02:45:58 <diki> nah
452 2011-05-30 02:46:03 <diki> just some problems with exec
453 2011-05-30 02:46:56 <pwrcycle> brocktice: yes. i was wondering if i could put two statements in that execution and just leave pushpool as it is
454 2011-05-30 02:47:02 <diki> haha, lol
455 2011-05-30 02:47:06 <diki> ;;bc,deepbit
456 2011-05-30 02:47:09 <pwrcycle> brocktice: an INSERT then SELECT
457 2011-05-30 02:47:11 <gribble> 592000
458 2011-05-30 02:47:17 <brocktice> pwrcycle: oh, I'm pretty terrible with SQL, don't ask me.
459 2011-05-30 02:47:20 <brocktice> I can just do the basics.
460 2011-05-30 02:47:22 <diki> says 1Ghash for me
461 2011-05-30 02:47:56 <pwrcycle> brocktice: but even with the username already there, i can't get the password to return true because i think pushpool is doing the comparison internally from what's submitted and what's in the lookup
462 2011-05-30 02:48:04 agricocb has joined
463 2011-05-30 02:48:15 <diki> to execute multiple statements in one query you need transactions
464 2011-05-30 02:48:25 <diki> which are only possible if the engine is InnoDB
465 2011-05-30 02:48:36 <diki> but mandatory for pushpool type of work
466 2011-05-30 02:48:41 <brocktice> pwrcycle: You should be able to modify the statement to not check password or something?
467 2011-05-30 02:48:50 <brocktice> instead of select *?
468 2011-05-30 02:49:25 <pwrcycle> brocktice: yeah, if i could make the SELECT statement match the given password, then pushpool would be checking password = password and that would always be true
469 2011-05-30 02:49:33 <forexmasterja> I dont want to be annoying but can you check these 2 and tell me which one you would prefer for running the 2 5850's
470 2011-05-30 02:49:53 <forexmasterja> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371036 & http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139009
471 2011-05-30 02:50:08 <brocktice> pwrcycle: best way would probably be to hack pushpool
472 2011-05-30 02:50:14 <pwrcycle> put this is just a config file, not an execute file. so all i have to hack is the sql statement
473 2011-05-30 02:50:15 <brocktice> pwrcycle: you could update the password first?
474 2011-05-30 02:50:29 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
475 2011-05-30 02:51:03 <fabianhjr> Night
476 2011-05-30 02:51:03 dukeleto has joined
477 2011-05-30 02:51:05 fabianhjr has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
478 2011-05-30 02:51:40 <darbsllim> pwrcycle are you starting a pool for sure?
479 2011-05-30 02:51:43 <darbsllim> or just thinking abou tit?
480 2011-05-30 02:52:04 <pwrcycle> darbsllim: i'm working on it. i have a server setup, just no frontend to add users
481 2011-05-30 02:52:18 traviscj has joined
482 2011-05-30 02:52:22 <darbsllim> pwrcycle whats your plan with it?
483 2011-05-30 02:52:56 <pwrcycle> 1 get the money, 2 get the clothes, 3 get the women
484 2011-05-30 02:53:10 <rampone> rofl
485 2011-05-30 02:55:07 <darbsllim> haha nice
486 2011-05-30 02:55:22 <darbsllim> how many ghash do you have going?
487 2011-05-30 02:56:00 <pwrcycle> darbsllim: 0 i've just been using cpu miners on my servers to test things.
488 2011-05-30 02:56:31 <pwrcycle> darbsllim: i just got it working last night
489 2011-05-30 02:57:17 <mrb_> pwrcycle, you forgot: 4 take the clothes off
490 2011-05-30 02:57:53 <pwrcycle> mrb_: one giant leap at a time
491 2011-05-30 02:59:42 <darbsllim> pwrcycle did you get opensource stuff or hwat?
492 2011-05-30 03:00:18 <pwrcycle> yeah, from git
493 2011-05-30 03:00:25 Netsniper has joined
494 2011-05-30 03:02:02 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 280000 38.86272347
495 2011-05-30 03:02:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 280000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 38.86272347, is 9 minutes and 56 seconds
496 2011-05-30 03:02:39 <JRWR> ;;bc,calcd 10000 38.86272347
497 2011-05-30 03:02:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 38.86272347, is 4 hours, 38 minutes, and 11 seconds
498 2011-05-30 03:03:16 BlueMattBot has joined
499 2011-05-30 03:04:23 <JRWR> ;;bc,calcd 1000 38.86272347
500 2011-05-30 03:04:23 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 38.86272347, is 1 day, 22 hours, 21 minutes, and 54 seconds
501 2011-05-30 03:04:35 <JRWR> thats about right :_
502 2011-05-30 03:06:56 BlueMatt has joined
503 2011-05-30 03:07:47 Xenland has joined
504 2011-05-30 03:07:47 Xenland has quit (Client Quit)
505 2011-05-30 03:09:57 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
506 2011-05-30 03:10:04 sacarlson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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509 2011-05-30 03:13:46 Netsniper has quit (Quit: Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. -Emma Goldman)
510 2011-05-30 03:14:12 Netsniper has joined
511 2011-05-30 03:14:41 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
512 2011-05-30 03:15:34 sacarlson has joined
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517 2011-05-30 03:21:10 <Xenland> How often are blocks found on bitclockers?
518 2011-05-30 03:22:02 <darbsllim> just calc it out with their ghash
519 2011-05-30 03:22:16 <Xenland> ;;gen
520 2011-05-30 03:22:16 <gribble> Error: "gen" is not a valid command.
521 2011-05-30 03:22:27 <Xenland> how do you do gen again
522 2011-05-30 03:22:28 <darbsllim> ;;bc,gen 9000000000
523 2011-05-30 03:22:29 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 9000000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 20815.8544189 BTC per day and 867.327267456 BTC per hour.
524 2011-05-30 03:22:40 <darbsllim> ;;bc,calc 9000000000
525 2011-05-30 03:22:40 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 9000000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 3 minutes and 27 seconds
526 2011-05-30 03:22:49 <darbsllim> is that right?
527 2011-05-30 03:22:51 <Xenland> That can't be right tho
528 2011-05-30 03:22:52 Sedra- has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
529 2011-05-30 03:22:54 <darbsllim> haha
530 2011-05-30 03:22:58 <darbsllim> too many 0s
531 2011-05-30 03:23:06 <darbsllim> ;;bc,calc 9000000
532 2011-05-30 03:23:06 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 9000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 2 days, 9 hours, 38 minutes, and 54 seconds
533 2011-05-30 03:23:09 <darbsllim> there we go
534 2011-05-30 03:23:12 <Xenland> My balance hasn't beeen added to in over a couple of days
535 2011-05-30 03:23:16 <Xenland> yep that looks like it
536 2011-05-30 03:23:26 <Xenland> nice
537 2011-05-30 03:24:02 kika_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
538 2011-05-30 03:25:03 has joined
539 2011-05-30 03:25:29 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-240-193-109.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Guest15069
540 2011-05-30 03:26:52 Sedra has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
541 2011-05-30 03:27:35 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
542 2011-05-30 03:27:51 kermit has joined
543 2011-05-30 03:28:02 Sedra has joined
544 2011-05-30 03:29:19 <stuhood> does anyone know where this document is being discussed / implemented? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ciKH3M8WYS49ywz08beXtvpCm2wVGdzU7waKwcn_uaU/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CJTqyOMF#
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594 2011-05-30 04:15:33 <Xenland> Check it out mates, this is the front end for pushpool
595 2011-05-30 04:15:42 <Xenland> im trying to get pushpool running with out crashing
596 2011-05-30 04:15:52 <Xenland> but the front-end works with bitcoind :P
597 2011-05-30 04:16:02 <Xenland> http://mp2.fleshvirus.com
598 2011-05-30 04:20:18 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: you spreading FUD about Eligius?
599 2011-05-30 04:20:37 Vladimir__ has joined
600 2011-05-30 04:21:28 <sacarlson> I seem to be having problems with IRC #weeds on freenode, I just tried your irc.lfnet.org with #weeds and it seems to work, would it be ok if I continue to use irc.lfnet.org for #weeds ?
601 2011-05-30 04:22:55 Carandiru has joined
602 2011-05-30 04:23:29 <gwillen> sacarlson: er I do not think #weeds has anything to do with this channel
603 2011-05-30 04:23:44 amiller has joined
604 2011-05-30 04:24:19 <[Tycho]> What is FUD ? I'm not spreading anything.
605 2011-05-30 04:25:22 <sacarlson> gwillen: maybe not but it is another cryto-currency so they might be brothers and they might know more about irc.lfnet.org here than any other place
606 2011-05-30 04:26:26 <gwillen> sacarlson: ahhh, didn't realize
607 2011-05-30 04:26:43 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
608 2011-05-30 04:28:10 <Xenland> Im just throwing this out here but is there a practical way of disallowing all IP addresses unless authorized by the admin to keep from DDoS attacks?
609 2011-05-30 04:28:59 <MacRohard> Xenland, NAT or a firewall to drop inbound connections maybe
610 2011-05-30 04:30:02 <Xenland> Right, so if you have a firewall up, is it possible to use "no-ip" service to authenticate users you think?
611 2011-05-30 04:30:15 <Xenland> that way an admin wouldn't have to update IP address for the same users everytime
612 2011-05-30 04:31:12 <MacRohard> no-ip service?
613 2011-05-30 04:31:12 <Xenland> :) DDoS problem solved i think?
614 2011-05-30 04:31:28 eao has joined
615 2011-05-30 04:31:50 <Xenland> Yeah its a service that allows dynamic ip address linked to something like yourname.no-ip.org
616 2011-05-30 04:32:15 <Xenland> Is it possible to tell if someone connected from a domain?
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618 2011-05-30 04:35:16 <sacarlson> Xenland: well with appache you always know what domain they came from, I never used that data to control iptables before but maybe you could
619 2011-05-30 04:36:02 <Xenland> sacalson: thanks for the confirm i'll think i might look into this]
620 2011-05-30 04:36:31 <MacRohard> sacarlson, lfnet is an open network. there is no channel or nick registration. anyone can go there but you might prefer one of the other mainstream networks since there's hardly any humans there.
621 2011-05-30 04:37:19 <sacarlson> MacRohard: I don't want humans it's just for bootstrap of the #weeds crypto-currency network
622 2011-05-30 04:37:53 <MacRohard> oh. i see.
623 2011-05-30 04:38:31 <sacarlson> MacRohard: I'll let it run there for some time and see if I get kicked out like I did on freenode
624 2011-05-30 04:39:02 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
625 2011-05-30 04:45:21 dubious has quit (Quit: If you think nobody cares, try missing a few payments)
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631 2011-05-30 04:56:40 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * r8d3a17df57ab bitcoind-personal/src/ (main.cpp main.h ui.cpp): Report direct-to-Eligius fees as fees rather than sends http://tinyurl.com/3kpzrmr
632 2011-05-30 04:56:49 Carandiru has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
633 2011-05-30 04:57:23 Carandiru has joined
634 2011-05-30 05:03:39 <luke-jr> [00:54:33] <ljrbot> Txn 3077f4b06d7cdb9434019696b4e1dcb6daddde4331ca3749bdd599d50912f569: 18E9CnvssLU5eW6sMCguj74DfiQRNGs3pi 0.04884464 BTC, (None) 1 TBC, 1BTFUtEscdizVPGiqrKhpy5s6QiQ4nNemC 0.0005 BTC
635 2011-05-30 05:03:43 <luke-jr> weee
636 2011-05-30 05:05:26 gsathya has joined
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638 2011-05-30 05:08:20 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: okay, thats a bit evil.
639 2011-05-30 05:08:28 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: :D
640 2011-05-30 05:08:48 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it's just an extra OP_NOP at the end
641 2011-05-30 05:08:58 <luke-jr> to discourage other miners from accepting it
642 2011-05-30 05:09:02 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: so your direct to eligius txn might get mined by someone else but still pays eligius the fee? 0_o ahhh
643 2011-05-30 05:09:10 <luke-jr> yep
644 2011-05-30 05:09:16 simkiss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
645 2011-05-30 05:09:17 <gmaxwell> I didn't catch the script spam.
646 2011-05-30 05:10:19 <luke-jr> apparently people think it's a good idea to "support their pool" :p
647 2011-05-30 05:11:43 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * ra15c3e8a34e6 bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: use a non-standard output to discourage other miners from including our transactions http://tinyurl.com/3wmnl45
648 2011-05-30 05:13:06 <Carandiru> why discourage other miners ?
649 2011-05-30 05:13:08 <gmaxwell> are the artefact2 EU graphs busted? it doesn't seem to be reflecting the recent EU found block for me.
650 2011-05-30 05:13:30 <luke-jr> Carandiru: dunno :P
651 2011-05-30 05:13:33 <gmaxwell> Carandiru: because it's kinda crazy evil if not! :)
652 2011-05-30 05:13:36 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it's slow
653 2011-05-30 05:13:48 <luke-jr> http://eligius.st/~artefact2/eu/1GEJfZRPrK2BLSSx3r6gwtuFxCUvq3QytN.htm
654 2011-05-30 05:13:51 <luke-jr> mine clearly shows it
655 2011-05-30 05:14:32 <gmaxwell> odd
656 2011-05-30 05:14:33 <gmaxwell> http://eligius.st/~artefact2/eu/15xWuDHSyKzpvp6FacGKXijBeaaaYhKWSi.htm
657 2011-05-30 05:14:35 <gmaxwell> doesn't.
658 2011-05-30 05:15:44 <luke-jr> hahhaa
659 2011-05-30 05:15:49 <luke-jr> weird
660 2011-05-30 05:18:07 FabianB has joined
661 2011-05-30 05:18:49 <Carandiru> how is it that your estimate is so high, when you have the same hash-rate as me ?
662 2011-05-30 05:18:57 <Carandiru> http://eligius.st/~artefact2/us/1DXWDSbqWLrR2ratPZyKqfdkkrHatRPfLW.htm
663 2011-05-30 05:19:00 FabianB_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
664 2011-05-30 05:19:17 <gmaxwell> Carandiru: the US pool is much bigger.
665 2011-05-30 05:19:27 <gmaxwell> Carandiru: so you'll get smaller payouts more often.
666 2011-05-30 05:19:29 <Carandiru> isn't it also faster ?
667 2011-05-30 05:19:32 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
668 2011-05-30 05:19:44 <Carandiru> ah how often are you payouts ?
669 2011-05-30 05:19:50 <luke-jr> Carandiru: like 2x a week it seems
670 2011-05-30 05:20:28 <gmaxwell> also my figures are all weird because my twitchy failover knocks me between different pools.
671 2011-05-30 05:21:08 Xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
672 2011-05-30 05:22:06 <darbsllim> hey does anyone know if there's a proper naming convention for startups to use when using smaller than 1 bitcoin in pricing?
673 2011-05-30 05:23:21 <luke-jr> darbsllim: centi-BTC
674 2011-05-30 05:23:49 <darbsllim> 0.1 is a centiBit?
675 2011-05-30 05:23:50 gsathya has joined
676 2011-05-30 05:25:24 <luke-jr> no, learn your basic SI if you want to use it
677 2011-05-30 05:25:35 FabianB_ has joined
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680 2011-05-30 05:26:26 <wumpus> 0.1 would be deci-BTC
681 2011-05-30 05:26:26 Backburn has joined
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684 2011-05-30 05:26:48 <darbsllim> has there been an official resource made for this yet for startups?
685 2011-05-30 05:26:59 <darbsllim> e-commerce sites accepting or paying in BTC
686 2011-05-30 05:26:59 <mattsemar> is there not a binary for bitcoind for mac?
687 2011-05-30 05:27:15 <luke-jr> darbsllim: there's nothing official period
688 2011-05-30 05:27:21 <wumpus> I'd simply use "0.01 BTC" and not invent any words
689 2011-05-30 05:27:21 <luke-jr> darbsllim: Fed is official
690 2011-05-30 05:27:43 <darbsllim> luke-jr suggested then =P
691 2011-05-30 05:27:43 <luke-jr> darbsllim: Bitcoin isn't just another Fed
692 2011-05-30 05:27:53 wolfspraul has joined
693 2011-05-30 05:28:15 <darbsllim> I know there's nothing official, but we need some standards
694 2011-05-30 05:29:08 gsathya has quit (Quit: gsathya)
695 2011-05-30 05:29:30 <luke-jr> darbsllim: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Units
696 2011-05-30 05:29:53 <darbsllim> thanks dude
697 2011-05-30 05:30:00 <wumpus> just don't introduce too much jargon yet, mind that newbies hardly have an idea what a bitcoin is, let alone strange names for part of it
698 2011-05-30 05:30:37 io_error has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
699 2011-05-30 05:30:41 <darbsllim> its just kind of a psychological demotivator to be paid .25 bitcoin
700 2011-05-30 05:30:42 gsathya has joined
701 2011-05-30 05:30:50 <darbsllim> when thats actually a fe bucks
702 2011-05-30 05:30:56 <darbsllim> couple*
703 2011-05-30 05:31:28 <darbsllim> but you're right - it is strange to start saying 25 DeciBitcoins
704 2011-05-30 05:31:28 <mattsemar> hey guys, is there a way for me to run headless bitcoind daemon on mac? the link on bitcoin.org just has a .app file
705 2011-05-30 05:31:47 <wumpus> but "25 bitcents", for example, doesn't really sound that much more
706 2011-05-30 05:31:48 <wumpus> right
707 2011-05-30 05:34:41 <Carandiru> nah deci isnt a good unit
708 2011-05-30 05:35:10 <Carandiru> it should be milli, micro, pico
709 2011-05-30 05:35:19 <Carandiru> kilo, mega, giga
710 2011-05-30 05:35:47 <luke-jr> or TBC
711 2011-05-30 05:38:15 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
712 2011-05-30 05:38:18 <Clarence> what's being sold for .25 BTC if I may ask?
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736 2011-05-30 06:11:14 <glicth-mod> I remember someone suggested shifting the decimal point to the right
737 2011-05-30 06:16:37 <Clarence> ya, like they really had a problem in 1900 when the dollar was worth 100 today dollars :)
738 2011-05-30 06:18:47 <gmaxwell> you don't need to "shift the point" .. just start using µBTC instead.
739 2011-05-30 06:18:48 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 263 seconds)
740 2011-05-30 06:19:34 <Clarence> having to deal with such high valued dollars really drive commerce to a halt :)
741 2011-05-30 06:27:02 Kurtov has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
742 2011-05-30 06:27:29 temphuman has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
743 2011-05-30 06:31:22 <Xenland> ;;latertell
744 2011-05-30 06:31:22 <gribble> Error: "latertell" is not a valid command.
745 2011-05-30 06:31:26 <Xenland> ;;later tell
746 2011-05-30 06:31:26 <gribble> (later tell <nick> <text>) -- Tells <nick> <text> the next time <nick> is in seen. <nick> can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note.
747 2011-05-30 06:31:49 <Xenland> ;;later tell tess I don't know why but when I try to add links for the rollovers in javascript it dosent accept them
748 2011-05-30 06:31:49 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
749 2011-05-30 06:31:54 Xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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751 2011-05-30 06:41:42 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * r53ccffc36006 bitcoind-personal/src/script.h: discern eligius_sendonly outputs http://tinyurl.com/3h8blrn
752 2011-05-30 06:41:44 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr eligius_sendonly * r4f05ce366700 bitcoind-personal/src/script.h: Merge branch 'eligius_sendonly_discern' into eligius_sendonly http://tinyurl.com/3qyc3cl
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763 2011-05-30 06:56:15 <netxshare> has anyone figured out this ADL api int ADL_Adapter_GPUSlave_Get(int adapterIndex, ref int numGPUSlave, out IntPtr gpuSlaves);
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778 2011-05-30 07:50:44 <jaromil> gmoin
779 2011-05-30 07:50:56 <jaromil> i've rebased the pull request about autotools
780 2011-05-30 07:50:57 <jaromil> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/180
781 2011-05-30 07:51:07 <jaromil> it merges well on the current tree
782 2011-05-30 07:51:21 <jaromil> yet, i'm not sure if that thing showing up is good
783 2011-05-30 07:51:29 <jaromil> actually, i think not. working on it
784 2011-05-30 07:53:07 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
785 2011-05-30 07:54:00 <jaromil> oh, good :) fixed
786 2011-05-30 07:54:48 <jaromil> so, it applies on the current master and it is followed by BlueMatt's fixes
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835 2011-05-30 09:16:29 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
836 2011-05-30 09:16:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 127616 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 1407 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 7 hours, 42 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 511251.46787749
837 2011-05-30 09:16:38 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
838 2011-05-30 09:16:39 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":8.49,"low":8.1501,"vol":6762,"buy":8.46,"sell":8.48,"last":8.46}}
839 2011-05-30 09:17:01 wok has left ()
840 2011-05-30 09:21:14 <jaromil> looooool http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/29/pbs-hacked-in-retrib.html
841 2011-05-30 09:22:50 coinage has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
842 2011-05-30 09:23:41 <TheAncientGoat> ;;bc,stats
843 2011-05-30 09:23:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 127616 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 1407 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 7 hours, 42 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 511251.46787749
844 2011-05-30 09:25:01 TheAncientGoat has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
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848 2011-05-30 09:28:39 <phantomcircuit> sipa, did you intentionally turn off free transactions?
849 2011-05-30 09:28:53 <sipa> eh?
850 2011-05-30 09:29:18 Diablo-D3 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
851 2011-05-30 09:29:33 <sipa> you're talking about https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/12a1256c1d33bb4580cd8ab7284d117ca42ec97c ?
852 2011-05-30 09:29:48 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/3d962315f24961e9bc9bc198a6773ba41d92a90d
853 2011-05-30 09:29:52 TheAncientGoat has quit (Excess Flood)
854 2011-05-30 09:29:56 <phantomcircuit> if (nFees < GetMinFee(1000, false, true))
855 2011-05-30 09:30:03 <phantomcircuit> disables free transactions completely
856 2011-05-30 09:30:19 <sipa> and i fixed it in the link i gave
857 2011-05-30 09:30:25 <sipa> so, no, not intentionally :)
858 2011-05-30 09:30:36 <phantomcircuit> hehe
859 2011-05-30 09:30:57 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i've seen a lot of people complaining about not being able to send transactions without a fee
860 2011-05-30 09:31:15 <sipa> in rc5?
861 2011-05-30 09:31:28 <phantomcircuit> there was someone on .21
862 2011-05-30 09:31:44 <sipa> 0.21 only forces fees in certain circumstances
863 2011-05-30 09:31:45 mosimo has joined
864 2011-05-30 09:31:57 <sipa> i disagree with it in general, but it's a temporary solution
865 2011-05-30 09:32:22 TheAncientGoat has joined
866 2011-05-30 09:34:33 <phantomcircuit> hmm
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874 2011-05-30 09:40:39 dmh has joined
875 2011-05-30 09:41:13 diki has joined
876 2011-05-30 09:42:10 <diki> Bluematt: Apart from the timezone difference when a block is found, i also found a delay of 8-10 seconds before the share with the valid block is inserted in mysql
877 2011-05-30 09:42:47 <diki> I could do an offset and search for anything that was generated between time()-30 seconds, but in this timeframe it's possible another block to be generated
878 2011-05-30 09:44:34 gjs278 has joined
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891 2011-05-30 10:06:05 <dinox_> The response you send to getwork, how is it built up? I cant find any info on wiki/docs
892 2011-05-30 10:06:45 coinage has joined
893 2011-05-30 10:08:06 <sipa> just the resulting block header in hex
894 2011-05-30 10:09:05 <sipa> bitcoin caches the merkle roots used in getwork requests, so it remember which list of transactions it corresponds to
895 2011-05-30 10:10:21 <BlueMatt> jaromil: you can rebase that into one commit, no need for a commit to autotools, then another for fixes
896 2011-05-30 10:10:32 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
897 2011-05-30 10:11:10 <dinox_> sipa: aha.. to see if a solution solves a block bitcoin needs to do the sha(sha(block_header)) then?
898 2011-05-30 10:11:36 <sipa> it does the hashing itself again, to verify, yes
899 2011-05-30 10:11:59 <jaromil> BlueMatt: just left it a while for review
900 2011-05-30 10:12:11 <jaromil> will rebase. BTW Linux 3.0 rc1 is out :D
901 2011-05-30 10:12:24 <BlueMatt> jaromil: meh, it will be reviewed as one whole commit
902 2011-05-30 10:12:30 <BlueMatt> no matter what the commit list actually is
903 2011-05-30 10:13:57 <BlueMatt> jaromil: hot damn, 3.0 rc1 wow :)
904 2011-05-30 10:14:05 jivvz has joined
905 2011-05-30 10:15:35 <jaromil> BlueMatt: rebased.
906 2011-05-30 10:15:54 <jaromil> yea anyway is no big big deal, just a number i understand
907 2011-05-30 10:16:16 <BlueMatt> yea but still, it indicates how far linux has come
908 2011-05-30 10:16:17 <jaromil> but i approve the move, also hope that a bit of cruft will be smoothed out, since 2.6.28 was a bit messy
909 2011-05-30 10:16:33 <jaromil> yea linux is far and also keeps a good release pace
910 2011-05-30 10:16:56 <jaromil> well i guess now really is time to update the OS i'm doing :D
911 2011-05-30 10:18:21 <sipa> BlueMatt: considering walletclass, i will probably split it again in 2 commits, one that only moves function around, and one that does the rest
912 2011-05-30 10:18:36 <sipa> it's a bit hard to verify now
913 2011-05-30 10:18:37 <BlueMatt> sipa: what is "the rest"?
914 2011-05-30 10:19:00 <BlueMatt> you mean one that moves stuff to the new files, and one that updates to use better classes?
915 2011-05-30 10:19:06 <sipa> yes
916 2011-05-30 10:19:17 <BlueMatt> oh, ok...sounds good
917 2011-05-30 10:19:21 <sipa> so you can verify the first commit really only moves things around
918 2011-05-30 10:19:36 <sipa> and the second one just changes some function headers and calls
919 2011-05-30 10:19:41 <sipa> and classes
920 2011-05-30 10:19:49 <sipa> and probably a lot of other things i forget now
921 2011-05-30 10:20:13 <BlueMatt> ok, sounds good...yea it is hard to verify now
922 2011-05-30 10:20:43 BCBot has joined
923 2011-05-30 10:21:10 <jaromil> sipa: is the pull req already up?
924 2011-05-30 10:22:06 <sipa> jaromil: for walletclass?
925 2011-05-30 10:22:20 JaredW has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
926 2011-05-30 10:22:24 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
927 2011-05-30 10:22:51 <sipa> ah, not yet, it seems
928 2011-05-30 10:23:00 <sipa> i'll do that when i splitted it
929 2011-05-30 10:23:39 <sipa> and maybe do some cleanup, like purging extern functions and unused class methods
930 2011-05-30 10:23:51 <sipa> oh, and a list of possible todo's for when it's merged :)
931 2011-05-30 10:24:00 <jaromil> plz use doxygen comments if you can
932 2011-05-30 10:24:14 <jaromil> like ///< comment on headers besides methods and properties
933 2011-05-30 10:24:14 <diki> So i am trying to store the time from time() in pushpool, bug having a bit of trouble here
934 2011-05-30 10:24:29 <jaromil> i'm just telling it to myself eh
935 2011-05-30 10:24:59 <jaromil> if we go towards writing classes and commenting them we'll be set for libbitcoin in a very graceful way, that's my guess
936 2011-05-30 10:25:07 <sipa> i agree
937 2011-05-30 10:25:29 <sipa> good comments are part of an accessible piece of software
938 2011-05-30 10:26:30 <BlueMatt> tell that to satoshi
939 2011-05-30 10:26:35 <phantomcircuit> lol
940 2011-05-30 10:26:36 <jaromil> lol
941 2011-05-30 10:26:39 <sipa> lol
942 2011-05-30 10:26:40 <phantomcircuit> my vaforite is vch
943 2011-05-30 10:26:43 <phantomcircuit> vch2
944 2011-05-30 10:26:49 <sipa> where is there a vch2?
945 2011-05-30 10:27:07 <sipa> ah, in script and in bignum
946 2011-05-30 10:27:07 <sipa> bah!
947 2011-05-30 10:27:14 <phantomcircuit> best part?
948 2011-05-30 10:27:21 <phantomcircuit> there isn't a vch in scope
949 2011-05-30 10:27:23 <phantomcircuit> lololol
950 2011-05-30 10:27:36 <sipa> i don't like the type-prefixing thing, but at least that's consistent
951 2011-05-30 10:28:21 <phantomcircuit> yes but it's not even a prefix
952 2011-05-30 10:28:45 <jaromil> phantomcircuit: well, kind of better than calling both vars called vch in two different scopes
953 2011-05-30 10:28:45 <sipa> it is, '2' is the variable name here :)
954 2011-05-30 10:28:56 <phantomcircuit> lol
955 2011-05-30 10:29:11 <phantomcircuit> bah my /var has a bunch of files truncated
956 2011-05-30 10:29:15 <phantomcircuit> :(
957 2011-05-30 10:29:58 <gmaxwell> oh whine whine. real men use variable like x .. x1, x2...
958 2011-05-30 10:30:34 <gmaxwell> http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/theora/lib/collect.c < theres some code with variables for ya.
959 2011-05-30 10:30:34 <jaromil> real men are obsolete
960 2011-05-30 10:31:43 dmh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
961 2011-05-30 10:32:25 * BlueMatt looks at that theora code and stabs himself
962 2011-05-30 10:32:36 <phantomcircuit> lol
963 2011-05-30 10:33:10 dmh has joined
964 2011-05-30 10:33:21 <gmaxwell> hahah
965 2011-05-30 10:33:41 <gmaxwell> to be fair, it's offline training code. Not something that anyone actually using the codec ever runs.
966 2011-05-30 10:33:46 <BlueMatt> jaromil: hm, you need to fetch upstream then rebase onto upstream/master again, you have the update openssl commit in your pull req
967 2011-05-30 10:34:22 <sipa> "My code was hard to write, it should be hard to read!"
968 2011-05-30 10:34:26 <diki> ah libtheora
969 2011-05-30 10:34:34 <diki> it's an audio codec, right?
970 2011-05-30 10:34:39 <BlueMatt> yea
971 2011-05-30 10:34:39 <gmaxwell> but lines like rxy+=(ds*dq*(r+c0+c1*ds+c2*dq+c3*ds*dq)*w+(c1*dq+c3*dq2)*s2+(r+c0+2*(c1*ds+(c2+2*c3*ds)*dq))*sq+(c2*ds+c3*ds2)*q2+dq*sr+ds*qr+(c1+2*c3*dq)*s2q+(c2+2*c3*ds)*sq2+sqr+c3*s2q2)/sq10; make everything in bitcoin seem trivial.
972 2011-05-30 10:34:53 <diki> yeah i remember trying to port it to symbian waay back in 2010
973 2011-05-30 10:34:54 <BlueMatt> oh god
974 2011-05-30 10:35:07 <sipa> theora is a video codec
975 2011-05-30 10:35:19 <diki> srsly?
976 2011-05-30 10:35:22 <BlueMatt> oh, yea I was just about to ask if it was audio or video
977 2011-05-30 10:35:26 <diki> lol
978 2011-05-30 10:35:31 <diki> then why did you say yeah?
979 2011-05-30 10:35:33 <BlueMatt> I just knew it was a codec
980 2011-05-30 10:35:35 <sipa> Theora is a free lossy video compression format.[5] It is developed by the Xiph.Org Foundation and distributed without licensing fees alongside their other free and open media projects, including the Vorbis audio format and the Ogg container.
981 2011-05-30 10:35:39 <BlueMatt> but I wasnt sure
982 2011-05-30 10:35:41 <sipa> -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theora
983 2011-05-30 10:35:45 <diki> either way, my port failed
984 2011-05-30 10:35:57 Stabaho has joined
985 2011-05-30 10:36:00 <gmaxwell> well if you thought it was an audio codec, no doubt!
986 2011-05-30 10:36:10 <gmaxwell> "man this sounds terrible!"
987 2011-05-30 10:36:17 <diki> are there any ways to cast a variable of type int to const char* without losing the information?
988 2011-05-30 10:36:35 <phantomcircuit> diki, losing what information?
989 2011-05-30 10:36:39 <sipa> sprintf?
990 2011-05-30 10:36:43 <diki> the time
991 2011-05-30 10:36:50 <phantomcircuit> wat
992 2011-05-30 10:36:53 <gmaxwell> 0_o
993 2011-05-30 10:37:06 <sipa> it's more than a simple cast though
994 2011-05-30 10:37:09 <diki> in order to get the pool working i need to store accurate data of when a block is found
995 2011-05-30 10:37:17 <phantomcircuit> uh huh
996 2011-05-30 10:37:20 <sipa> you want to format the number as a string, and allocate that
997 2011-05-30 10:37:23 <gmaxwell> diki: perhaps you should render it to an image andthen use a video codec, perhaps? Not a lossy one though...
998 2011-05-30 10:37:26 <diki> after i do (const char*)blah the information is incorrect
999 2011-05-30 10:37:27 <sipa> (but ask yourself whether that's necessary)
1000 2011-05-30 10:37:34 <diki> it is lol
1001 2011-05-30 10:37:40 <phantomcircuit> diki, what do you mean incorrect?
1002 2011-05-30 10:37:53 <phantomcircuit> also why the hell are you doing that
1003 2011-05-30 10:37:59 <diki> well i should be getting the time in unix seconds like so 130...but i get 108 after casting to const char*
1004 2011-05-30 10:38:04 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: he's simply casting an integer to a char pointer and wondering why it's not magically a string.
1005 2011-05-30 10:38:22 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, oh
1006 2011-05-30 10:38:24 <phantomcircuit> lol
1007 2011-05-30 10:38:34 <phantomcircuit> diki, you need to call somethign like strtoi
1008 2011-05-30 10:38:38 <phantomcircuit> i think that's what it's called
1009 2011-05-30 10:38:48 <phantomcircuit> or use some crazy ass iostream stringstream shit
1010 2011-05-30 10:38:53 <gmaxwell> diki: man snprintf
1011 2011-05-30 10:39:03 <phantomcircuit> a more important question though
1012 2011-05-30 10:39:05 <phantomcircuit> is why
1013 2011-05-30 10:39:22 <diki> cause mysql has a delay of a few seconds when storing info in mysql
1014 2011-05-30 10:39:36 <diki> thus a block is found a few seconds before storing the result in mysql
1015 2011-05-30 10:39:37 <BlueMatt> what?
1016 2011-05-30 10:39:40 <phantomcircuit> uh not if you do it right
1017 2011-05-30 10:39:48 <diki> wait, let me rephrase
1018 2011-05-30 10:39:54 <diki> the time in mysql was off by 10 seconds
1019 2011-05-30 10:39:58 <jaromil> BlueMatt: oh i see
1020 2011-05-30 10:40:12 <jaromil> sry i was looking at http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/asus-brings-out-extra-skinny-eee-pc-x101-running-meego-hands-on/
1021 2011-05-30 10:40:23 <jaromil> jeez this x101 is light and cheap
1022 2011-05-30 10:40:35 <phantomcircuit> diki, oh you mean you have something like INSERT INTO blocks(time) VALUES(NOW()); ?
1023 2011-05-30 10:40:38 <BlueMatt> cheap but how much could you actually do on that?
1024 2011-05-30 10:40:40 * jaromil busy bashing friends who bougth a macbook air
1025 2011-05-30 10:41:00 <jaromil> BlueMatt: cpu can be up to i7
1026 2011-05-30 10:41:03 karnac has joined
1027 2011-05-30 10:41:05 <BlueMatt> if there was a 15-inch air with a better cpu, it would be amazing
1028 2011-05-30 10:41:13 <jaromil> of course you don't buy a sub 1Kg netbook to mine bitcoins...
1029 2011-05-30 10:41:16 <diki> phantom:more or less
1030 2011-05-30 10:41:18 <BlueMatt> jaromil: yea, but you need a bigger screen to get anything done
1031 2011-05-30 10:41:23 <jaromil> yet i'd say its sexy, esp. the glass touchpad
1032 2011-05-30 10:41:27 BurtyBB has joined
1033 2011-05-30 10:41:30 <diki> i am getting the time from mysql, but the delay is just too big, block is found waay long ago
1034 2011-05-30 10:41:36 <BlueMatt> yea, looks nice...but mego?
1035 2011-05-30 10:41:39 <diki> and i need more accurate time to check for block confirmations
1036 2011-05-30 10:41:40 <jaromil> my main portable desktop is 11"
1037 2011-05-30 10:41:43 <BlueMatt> meego*
1038 2011-05-30 10:41:52 <BlueMatt> I feel sorry for you on that
1039 2011-05-30 10:41:58 <phantomcircuit> diki, it's far more likely that the time on your mysql server is wrong
1040 2011-05-30 10:42:04 <jaromil> then using a 21" monitor at work and home
1041 2011-05-30 10:42:10 <jaromil> like docking
1042 2011-05-30 10:42:29 <jaromil> BlueMatt: meego is very interesting
1043 2011-05-30 10:42:35 <diki> phatom: you see, pushpool waits for a response from bitcoin, after which it executes the query and mysql inserts it's own time
1044 2011-05-30 10:42:42 <gmaxwell> PixelQI or go home.
1045 2011-05-30 10:42:47 <BlueMatt> yea but not my cup of tea for everyday computing
1046 2011-05-30 10:42:48 <jaromil> and has no java nonsense, unlikely chrome os
1047 2011-05-30 10:42:53 <jaromil> oh sure
1048 2011-05-30 10:43:01 <phantomcircuit> diki, so the problem is that pushpool is adding a ton of delay?
1049 2011-05-30 10:43:02 <BlueMatt> you cant compare to chrome os, wtf is chrome os good for?
1050 2011-05-30 10:43:04 <diki> it's off by a few seconds and in those few seconds another block will be found
1051 2011-05-30 10:43:07 <jaromil> ahahahahh
1052 2011-05-30 10:44:00 <jaromil> BlueMatt: sure you can't think of these things like they are for developer. its stuff for userz. userz are happy rubbing crap like iphone, android and such
1053 2011-05-30 10:44:20 <diki> i can probably cut the delay to none if i compile my own bitcoin version, but i just know how much dependencies i need that i am scared
1054 2011-05-30 10:44:22 <BlueMatt> meh true, still doesnt mean anyone will use chrome os
1055 2011-05-30 10:44:23 * jaromil spits chewed tabacco in the ground
1056 2011-05-30 10:44:31 <jaromil> we're too bound to these revolvers here
1057 2011-05-30 10:45:06 <jaromil> its like offering an uzi to john wayne
1058 2011-05-30 10:46:23 <jaromil> ok, pull 180 rebased correctly
1059 2011-05-30 10:46:44 <BlueMatt> thanks
1060 2011-05-30 10:48:14 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
1061 2011-05-30 10:52:45 RazielZ has joined
1062 2011-05-30 10:53:46 nefario has joined
1063 2011-05-30 10:54:08 <nefario> possible to run more than one bitcoind on the same server?
1064 2011-05-30 10:55:17 <jaromil> nefario: since the -port option is in, yes
1065 2011-05-30 10:55:42 <jaromil> AFAIK?
1066 2011-05-30 10:55:54 <jaromil> i've been reading too many branches so i might be confused
1067 2011-05-30 10:55:55 <nefario> oh ok, but how do we specify a different wallet.dat directory?
1068 2011-05-30 10:56:07 <BlueMatt> -datadir=... -nolisten or -port=...
1069 2011-05-30 10:56:19 <BlueMatt> I think that should be all you need
1070 2011-05-30 10:56:35 <nefario> excellent
1071 2011-05-30 10:56:47 <nefario> thanks berry much
1072 2011-05-30 10:56:53 <BlueMatt> why do you want to though?
1073 2011-05-30 10:57:05 <BlueMatt> if you need to its probably best to -datadir=... and -connect=localhost
1074 2011-05-30 10:57:12 <BlueMatt> and -nolisten
1075 2011-05-30 10:57:39 intelliot has joined
1076 2011-05-30 10:57:51 <nefario> so I can have two services running on the same machine, a test service and the real thing.
1077 2011-05-30 10:58:32 <BlueMatt> yea then -datadir=... -connect=127.0.0.1 -nolisten on the second
1078 2011-05-30 10:58:50 <BlueMatt> (assuming you arent doing testnet on the second, in which case you dont need -conenct or-nolisten)
1079 2011-05-30 10:59:30 <nefario> ok
1080 2011-05-30 10:59:33 <nefario> much thanks
1081 2011-05-30 11:02:30 <dinox_> Hmm, may blocks generated with bitcoind 3.22rc3 be rejected by 3.21?
1082 2011-05-30 11:02:51 <dinox_> Due to the new fee rules
1083 2011-05-30 11:03:03 <BlueMatt> no
1084 2011-05-30 11:03:39 <diki> damn this casting with sprintf doesnt work
1085 2011-05-30 11:05:24 <sipa> dinox_: in theory, that's possible
1086 2011-05-30 11:05:28 <sipa> for large blocks
1087 2011-05-30 11:05:30 <sipa> *tx's
1088 2011-05-30 11:06:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: since when will 0.3.21 reject blocks based on tx fees?
1089 2011-05-30 11:06:26 <phantomcircuit> the algorithm for transaction fees seems kind of lame
1090 2011-05-30 11:06:42 falafell has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1091 2011-05-30 11:06:51 falafell has joined
1092 2011-05-30 11:07:38 <sipa> BlueMatt: the entire reason why we switched back to 0.01 fees in 0.3.22
1093 2011-05-30 11:07:56 <sipa> certain tx's require a fee in 0.3.21 before they are accepted to the memory pool
1094 2011-05-30 11:07:56 <dinox_> hmm, I have had 2 invalid blocks in a row now
1095 2011-05-30 11:07:56 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1096 2011-05-30 11:08:02 <dinox_> seems unlikely
1097 2011-05-30 11:08:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: but it wont reject blocks, just not relay them
1098 2011-05-30 11:08:15 <sipa> ah crap
1099 2011-05-30 11:08:18 <BlueMatt> (not relay the txes that is)
1100 2011-05-30 11:08:30 <sipa> sorry, i was talking about transactions, not blocks
1101 2011-05-30 11:08:44 kakazza has quit (Ping timeout: 247 seconds)
1102 2011-05-30 11:08:48 <sipa> there are almost no checks on what is allowed in a block
1103 2011-05-30 11:08:50 <BlueMatt> ok, so to answer dinox_ 's question, no
1104 2011-05-30 11:08:54 <sipa> indeed
1105 2011-05-30 11:09:07 <phantomcircuit> which rules apply to transactions that have made it into a block?
1106 2011-05-30 11:09:07 <dinox_> Ok, thanks :) Just me having some bad luck then
1107 2011-05-30 11:09:49 <sipa> phantomcircuit: they must not double spend, they must not have more ouputs than input+coinbase, the signaturs scripts must hold
1108 2011-05-30 11:09:54 <sipa> *signature
1109 2011-05-30 11:10:07 <phantomcircuit> no anti spam stuff?
1110 2011-05-30 11:10:14 <sipa> no
1111 2011-05-30 11:10:21 <phantomcircuit> k that's easy enough
1112 2011-05-30 11:10:28 <sipa> once someone puts it in a block, it's valid
1113 2011-05-30 11:10:46 dinox_ is now known as dinox
1114 2011-05-30 11:11:01 kakazza has joined
1115 2011-05-30 11:12:11 <phantomcircuit> sipa, well unless it isn't
1116 2011-05-30 11:12:11 <phantomcircuit> :P
1117 2011-05-30 11:12:12 <dinox> sipa: I could generate a block with 1MB of 0.01-spam then, wouldn't the other miners reject that?
1118 2011-05-30 11:12:28 <BlueMatt> no
1119 2011-05-30 11:12:48 <sipa> if you didn't mind doing work for that, there is no problem
1120 2011-05-30 11:13:40 <edcba> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBC_8R9gcN0&feature=related seems his GPUs are very hot :)
1121 2011-05-30 11:13:48 <dinox> Since you still get the 50btc-reward, you wouldn't lose at doing that
1122 2011-05-30 11:14:25 <BlueMatt> or you could just generate empty blocks with no txes which take less time to send and less bw
1123 2011-05-30 11:14:25 <diki> my gpu is hotter
1124 2011-05-30 11:14:37 <dinox> A spammer could just get a couple of gpus and generate a 1MB-block every day or so, just for increasing size of block chain
1125 2011-05-30 11:14:50 <dinox> ...and get paid for it
1126 2011-05-30 11:15:02 <phantomcircuit> dinox, yes but why
1127 2011-05-30 11:15:13 <BlueMatt> well only until thin clients are implemented
1128 2011-05-30 11:15:15 <edcba> because he can
1129 2011-05-30 11:15:45 <BlueMatt> "for the lulz as the kinds call it these days" -gavin
1130 2011-05-30 11:15:57 <dinox> hehe, yeah
1131 2011-05-30 11:16:07 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 750000
1132 2011-05-30 11:16:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 750000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 4 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 46 minutes, and 49 seconds
1133 2011-05-30 11:16:27 <sipa> 13:07:24 < dinox> A spammer could just get a couple of gpus and generate a 1MB-block every day or so, just for increasing size of block chain -> 28 5970's
1134 2011-05-30 11:18:14 intelliot has quit (Quit: intelliot)
1135 2011-05-30 11:19:39 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1136 2011-05-30 11:21:31 <dinox> hehe sipa , but still doable
1137 2011-05-30 11:21:51 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1138 2011-05-30 11:21:53 <dinox> If he gets paid >$400 a day for it
1139 2011-05-30 11:22:26 <phantomcircuit> lol what the fuck the signaturehash consists of the rewritten transaction plus the hashtype
1140 2011-05-30 11:22:30 <phantomcircuit> WHY THE HASHTYPE?!
1141 2011-05-30 11:23:02 <phantomcircuit> that literally triples the amount of work i need to do to hash it
1142 2011-05-30 11:23:03 <phantomcircuit> sigh
1143 2011-05-30 11:23:47 <sipa> ?
1144 2011-05-30 11:24:28 <phantomcircuit> instead of simply reusing the transaction hashing code i need to write more hashing stuff
1145 2011-05-30 11:25:26 <bencoder> "Selling custom blog.pbs.org domains, php/user included, lulzsec@hushmail.com - 2 BitCoins each!" - @LulzSec
1146 2011-05-30 11:25:33 <phantomcircuit> rofl
1147 2011-05-30 11:25:43 skeledrew has joined
1148 2011-05-30 11:26:34 <jaromil> lulzsec rock'd my day
1149 2011-05-30 11:26:56 <ersi> he sure is lulzy
1150 2011-05-30 11:27:36 <jaromil> he or she. they must be nyan nyan lulzy nyan <3
1151 2011-05-30 11:30:35 nefario has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1152 2011-05-30 11:32:51 dmh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1153 2011-05-30 11:33:38 dmh has joined
1154 2011-05-30 11:35:51 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1155 2011-05-30 11:37:20 dmh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1156 2011-05-30 11:38:29 dmh has joined
1157 2011-05-30 11:38:57 <diki> C sure does suck...
1158 2011-05-30 11:41:16 gsathya has joined
1159 2011-05-30 11:41:27 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1160 2011-05-30 11:41:32 Speeder has joined
1161 2011-05-30 11:42:27 <diki> Any ideas in how to make this work? http://pastebin.com/Tnru6sxn
1162 2011-05-30 11:44:01 <phantomcircuit> diki, lol you can just directly bind the integer
1163 2011-05-30 11:44:18 mtrlt has joined
1164 2011-05-30 11:45:05 <diki> the function bind_instr takes const char* as an argument, so no
1165 2011-05-30 11:46:15 <phantomcircuit> yes the function bind input string takes a const char*
1166 2011-05-30 11:47:00 <diki> that is a custom function by jgarzik
1167 2011-05-30 11:47:09 <diki> which calls the real bind function
1168 2011-05-30 11:47:20 <jaromil> btw anyone wanting to contribute to a common cause and imporve the testing cycle for bitcoin, i'd love to see this setup https://github.com/jollyroger/debian-buildbot
1169 2011-05-30 11:47:26 <diki> but either way, both take const char* as an argument. An int is not a const char*
1170 2011-05-30 11:47:41 <jaromil> once autotools is in it should be straightforward...
1171 2011-05-30 11:47:45 groov has joined
1172 2011-05-30 11:47:58 <sipa> what's thje problem with that code, diki?
1173 2011-05-30 11:48:15 <diki> i need to get the unix time, convert it to const char* and pass it on to be binded
1174 2011-05-30 11:48:21 <sipa> it looks correct
1175 2011-05-30 11:48:25 <sipa> ah, the printf line isn't
1176 2011-05-30 11:48:39 <diki> the printf line is there to tell me if what i am getting is correct
1177 2011-05-30 11:48:40 <sipa> should just be printf("%s",timee);
1178 2011-05-30 11:48:41 <diki> it was not
1179 2011-05-30 11:48:46 <diki> oh
1180 2011-05-30 11:48:49 <diki> let me try
1181 2011-05-30 11:49:00 <sipa> even better: "%s\n"
1182 2011-05-30 11:49:48 <sipa> (int)timee mean: "interpret the point to characters in timee as a number", not "interpret the value in the string pointed to by timee as a number"
1183 2011-05-30 11:49:54 <sipa> *pointer to characters
1184 2011-05-30 11:50:19 <diki> getting some insane values there
1185 2011-05-30 11:50:24 <diki> negative at that
1186 2011-05-30 11:50:31 <diki> nowhere near the time i need
1187 2011-05-30 11:50:57 <sipa> try this: snprintf(timee, sizeof(timee), "%lu", (unsigned long)tv.tv_sec);
1188 2011-05-30 11:53:01 <diki> had an extra printf there
1189 2011-05-30 11:53:14 <diki> well it seems the correct time is printed this time, but nothing get's in mysql
1190 2011-05-30 11:53:26 <diki> i've added the needed fields too
1191 2011-05-30 11:53:46 <phantomcircuit> diki, MYSQL_BIND.buffer_type
1192 2011-05-30 11:54:06 <diki> what about it?
1193 2011-05-30 11:54:22 <diki> if i am correct everything from here on should be automated
1194 2011-05-30 11:54:37 <diki> shares get inserted as usualy, but the field that is holding time is empty
1195 2011-05-30 11:54:44 <diki> i've added it to the fields in the config
1196 2011-05-30 11:54:54 coinage has quit ()
1197 2011-05-30 11:57:09 <phantomcircuit> diki, you can bind integers directly
1198 2011-05-30 11:57:27 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1199 2011-05-30 11:57:35 <diki> phatom:everything before this resulted in warnings when compiling to errors and then errors from stack
1200 2011-05-30 11:57:35 sacarlson has joined
1201 2011-05-30 11:57:47 gsathya has joined
1202 2011-05-30 11:57:48 <diki> this actually compiles and shares to get inserted in mysql, just not the time field
1203 2011-05-30 11:57:55 <diki> *do get
1204 2011-05-30 12:00:03 <diki> i am trying to figure out why nothing is getting in
1205 2011-05-30 12:00:24 <diki> *rephrase = why the time field is not populated
1206 2011-05-30 12:01:25 nextgens has joined
1207 2011-05-30 12:02:14 <diki> i set it to varchar just in case, but nothing....
1208 2011-05-30 12:03:53 <diki> the buffer type is set to mysql_type_string
1209 2011-05-30 12:05:36 <diki> could that be the problem?
1210 2011-05-30 12:17:36 * diki thinks he is alone in this channel with 339 users
1211 2011-05-30 12:19:52 Optimo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1212 2011-05-30 12:20:12 groov has left ()
1213 2011-05-30 12:24:19 Lethe has joined
1214 2011-05-30 12:29:36 Sedra has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
1215 2011-05-30 12:29:42 <ersi> diki: You're not alone. We just don't care.
1216 2011-05-30 12:29:46 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1217 2011-05-30 12:30:05 <UukGoblin> is there a tool to create a simple wallet with a valid address without requiring the whole bitcoin?
1218 2011-05-30 12:30:35 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1219 2011-05-30 12:34:20 bittrader has joined
1220 2011-05-30 12:34:54 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
1221 2011-05-30 12:34:56 <gribble> Current Blocks: 127642 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 1381 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 3 hours, 15 minutes, and 29 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 512948.97851062
1222 2011-05-30 12:37:04 datagutt has joined
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1226 2011-05-30 12:37:48 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1227 2011-05-30 12:38:52 <diki> ersi, and we dont care about you
1228 2011-05-30 12:38:59 Stellar has quit (Quit: w00t)
1229 2011-05-30 12:39:26 Stellar has joined
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1232 2011-05-30 12:40:24 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
1233 2011-05-30 12:40:36 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1234 2011-05-30 12:40:41 BlueMattBot has joined
1235 2011-05-30 12:41:02 sethsethseth___ has joined
1236 2011-05-30 12:42:17 <ersi> diki: Apparently you do, since you answered. Blah blah boo.
1237 2011-05-30 12:43:12 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1238 2011-05-30 12:44:33 sethsethseth__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1239 2011-05-30 12:44:39 Sedra has joined
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1241 2011-05-30 12:48:21 cenuij has joined
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1243 2011-05-30 12:48:21 cenuij has joined
1244 2011-05-30 12:49:49 larsivi has joined
1245 2011-05-30 12:51:25 <nanotube> UukGoblin: not that i know of... but there's a tool to generate an ecdsa keypair.
1246 2011-05-30 12:51:57 dvide has joined
1247 2011-05-30 12:52:57 <UukGoblin> nanotube, I'll just use bitcoin I guess.
1248 2011-05-30 12:53:09 karnac has joined
1249 2011-05-30 12:53:18 johnnympereira5 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1250 2011-05-30 12:53:30 <nanotube> UukGoblin: hehe easiest :)
1251 2011-05-30 12:54:53 Sedra- has joined
1252 2011-05-30 12:57:46 <dinox> Anyone having a online (bitcoin-)node I can connect to?
1253 2011-05-30 12:58:01 <UukGoblin> dinox, google 'fallback nodes'
1254 2011-05-30 12:58:12 <dinox> I have and they are not updated
1255 2011-05-30 12:58:32 <dinox> "Last Seen 2011-04-17 12:00:08"
1256 2011-05-30 12:58:33 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1257 2011-05-30 12:58:38 <sipa> bitcoin.sipa.be (178.18.90.41) is definitely up :)
1258 2011-05-30 12:58:44 <sipa> don't know about the rest
1259 2011-05-30 12:59:22 <dinox> thanks sipa
1260 2011-05-30 13:06:39 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1261 2011-05-30 13:07:07 <Vladimir__> yep it seems wikibot is down for a while, most nodes are still valid though
1262 2011-05-30 13:08:17 <WakiMiko> it dissappeared with satoshi ;_;
1263 2011-05-30 13:08:24 <dinox> sipa: Do you have static ip? Then Ill add that to my node list
1264 2011-05-30 13:08:33 <sipa> yes
1265 2011-05-30 13:08:36 <dinox> nice
1266 2011-05-30 13:08:48 <sipa> also testnet, btw
1267 2011-05-30 13:09:39 <dinox> Hmm, i wonder what probably is you not finding a block in 1554929 shares
1268 2011-05-30 13:09:48 <dinox> probability*
1269 2011-05-30 13:10:11 <mtrlt> well, one share is a block at sharediff/networkdiff probability :p
1270 2011-05-30 13:10:25 <mtrlt> so, it's (1-sharediff/networkdiff)^shareamount
1271 2011-05-30 13:10:39 <sipa> 1-(1-1/difficulty*65535/65536)^shares
1272 2011-05-30 13:11:03 J0h_ has joined
1273 2011-05-30 13:11:21 J0h_ has quit (Client Quit)
1274 2011-05-30 13:11:24 <mtrlt> no, my formula calculates the probability of not finding a block :)
1275 2011-05-30 13:11:43 <mtrlt> yours calculates the prob of finding a block, with a fixed share diff
1276 2011-05-30 13:12:13 <dinox> sharediff = 1/2^32?
1277 2011-05-30 13:12:28 <phantomcircuit> sigh
1278 2011-05-30 13:12:32 <phantomcircuit> fucking variable uint
1279 2011-05-30 13:12:34 <mtrlt> nope
1280 2011-05-30 13:12:41 <mtrlt> usually it's 65535/65536
1281 2011-05-30 13:13:00 <mtrlt> but i calculated and the probability is around 2.8%
1282 2011-05-30 13:13:04 <mtrlt> (1-65535/65536/434882.7217497)^1554929
1283 2011-05-30 13:13:30 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1284 2011-05-30 13:13:35 <dinox> 2.8% is apperently enough to happen sometimes :P
1285 2011-05-30 13:13:45 <sipa> mtrlt: i'm wrong, it's the other way around
1286 2011-05-30 13:13:53 <sipa> /65535*65536
1287 2011-05-30 13:14:43 <sipa> the current proportion between the real difficulty and share difficulty is 434883.68132598765410125187
1288 2011-05-30 13:14:56 <sipa> oh, wait
1289 2011-05-30 13:15:04 tonik has joined
1290 2011-05-30 13:15:06 <sipa> yes
1291 2011-05-30 13:15:28 johnnympereira5 has joined
1292 2011-05-30 13:17:24 broker has joined
1293 2011-05-30 13:18:21 <dinox> ;;calc (1-65535/65536/434882.7217497)^1554929
1294 2011-05-30 13:18:21 <gribble> (1 - ((65,535 / 65,536) / 434,882.7217497))^1,554,929 = 0.0280024589
1295 2011-05-30 13:18:40 <dinox> ;;calc (1-65535/65536/434882.7217497)^500000
1296 2011-05-30 13:18:40 <gribble> (1 - ((65,535 / 65,536) / 434,882.7217497))^500,000 = 0.316725744
1297 2011-05-30 13:18:47 larsivi has joined
1298 2011-05-30 13:19:03 <sipa> ;;calc (1-1/434883.6813259876541)^1554929
1299 2011-05-30 13:19:04 <gribble> (1 - (1 / 434,883.6813259876541))^1,554,929 = 0.0280011521
1300 2011-05-30 13:19:15 <dinox> hehe :P
1301 2011-05-30 13:20:04 <dinox> ;;calc 2^32
1302 2011-05-30 13:20:04 <gribble> 2^32 = 4,294,967,296
1303 2011-05-30 13:20:05 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1304 2011-05-30 13:20:14 <dinox> ;;calc 65535*65536
1305 2011-05-30 13:20:15 <gribble> 65,535 * 65,536 = 4,294,901,760
1306 2011-05-30 13:20:56 j0h_ has joined
1307 2011-05-30 13:21:09 mmoya has joined
1308 2011-05-30 13:21:18 <j0h_> i cant change deepbit bitcoin address , anyone know why?
1309 2011-05-30 13:21:44 <dinox> j0h_: I think it deactivated right now
1310 2011-05-30 13:22:08 <j0h_> yeah the same but well i cant get out my btc hehe , ty
1311 2011-05-30 13:22:10 j0h_ has quit (Client Quit)
1312 2011-05-30 13:27:20 App3l has left ()
1313 2011-05-30 13:27:32 <johnnympereira5> ;;bc;stats
1314 2011-05-30 13:27:32 <gribble> Error: "bc;stats" is not a valid command.
1315 2011-05-30 13:27:39 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1316 2011-05-30 13:27:41 <gribble> Current Blocks: 127648 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 1375 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 2 hours, 24 minutes, and 35 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 513767.03537509
1317 2011-05-30 13:27:49 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1318 2011-05-30 13:28:00 <johnnympereira5> sipa.. thanks lol
1319 2011-05-30 13:28:26 <phantomcircuit> [Tycho], getting ddos'd?
1320 2011-05-30 13:28:31 <pwrcycle> diki: have you done any recompiling of pushpool?
1321 2011-05-30 13:29:32 <diki> did quite a lot of recompiling
1322 2011-05-30 13:30:01 <diki> but my desired effect was not achieved
1323 2011-05-30 13:34:10 <dinox> ;;calc 1554929 * 0.00010577564409762
1324 2011-05-30 13:34:11 <gribble> 1,554,929 * 0.00010577564409762 = 164.473617
1325 2011-05-30 13:34:26 <dinox> Not exactly a cheap block :P
1326 2011-05-30 13:36:13 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1327 2011-05-30 13:37:04 dmh has quit ()
1328 2011-05-30 13:37:25 newmont has joined
1329 2011-05-30 13:37:43 <newmont> any ruby developers in the house?
1330 2011-05-30 13:40:16 jivvz has joined
1331 2011-05-30 13:41:05 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 280000 38
1332 2011-05-30 13:41:05 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 280000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 38, is 9 minutes and 42 seconds
1333 2011-05-30 13:41:16 <diki> and the un-average time is?
1334 2011-05-30 13:41:34 <diki> it's 15 minutes
1335 2011-05-30 13:41:52 intelliot has joined
1336 2011-05-30 13:43:34 Sedra- is now known as Sedra
1337 2011-05-30 13:46:22 backwardation25 has joined
1338 2011-05-30 13:51:04 <diki> damn this song is catchy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrTyD7rjBpw
1339 2011-05-30 13:54:03 <diki> well, bep have always been good
1340 2011-05-30 13:55:52 <ar4s> diki: how do you like this track? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb3wKX1HEpA
1341 2011-05-30 13:58:00 <diki> It started with a catchy hook, but later not so much
1342 2011-05-30 13:58:18 <diki> thruth be told, i am not american, but i love american songs
1343 2011-05-30 13:58:31 <diki> in fact it's what almost every person here listens
1344 2011-05-30 13:59:25 <newmont> i think in the first 2 min there is more musical value in that kenna vid than in the entire black eyed peas oeuvre
1345 2011-05-30 13:59:34 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1346 2011-05-30 13:59:35 <newmont> but kenna doesn't have an action figure
1347 2011-05-30 13:59:37 <newmont> so
1348 2011-05-30 14:00:23 <diki> You should also listen to some jessie j songs
1349 2011-05-30 14:00:25 <diki> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOf3kYtwASo
1350 2011-05-30 14:00:53 <diki> I mostly listen to songs that activate that part of my brain which is responsible for motivation
1351 2011-05-30 14:03:44 <ar4s> Hrmm, not sure if I love the jessie j song, but to each their own
1352 2011-05-30 14:03:53 <ar4s> I've yet to find a person who doesn't like this one: http://www.reddit.com/tb/gj57h
1353 2011-05-30 14:05:22 <diki> but since youtube redesigned their website to look like shit i accidentally deleted half of my favorited videos
1354 2011-05-30 14:06:06 Netsniper has joined
1355 2011-05-30 14:06:36 <diki> I usually love the songs by Will.i.am and T-Pain
1356 2011-05-30 14:06:46 <diki> and recently lonely islands
1357 2011-05-30 14:07:21 tippenein has joined
1358 2011-05-30 14:11:05 backwardation25 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1359 2011-05-30 14:11:55 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1360 2011-05-30 14:13:12 has joined
1361 2011-05-30 14:13:38 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-240-192-2.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Guest44704
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1369 2011-05-30 14:27:31 Akiron has joined
1370 2011-05-30 14:28:15 <newmont> can someone tell me how to see avg block size?
1371 2011-05-30 14:28:52 <forrestv> newmont, http://blockexplorer.com/q/avgblocksize
1372 2011-05-30 14:29:11 <newmont> thx
1373 2011-05-30 14:30:22 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1374 2011-05-30 14:33:14 <phantomcircuit> who runs autovps.net again?
1375 2011-05-30 14:33:20 tonik has quit (Quit: q)
1376 2011-05-30 14:33:25 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, is it you?
1377 2011-05-30 14:35:11 <diki> Mark Karpeles
1378 2011-05-30 14:35:15 BitVector has joined
1379 2011-05-30 14:35:32 pnicholson has joined
1380 2011-05-30 14:35:46 <phantomcircuit> diki, ok what's his handle?
1381 2011-05-30 14:35:54 <sipa> MagicalTux
1382 2011-05-30 14:36:01 <phantomcircuit> oh
1383 2011-05-30 14:36:01 <diki> handle?
1384 2011-05-30 14:36:03 <MagicalTux> sipa
1385 2011-05-30 14:36:13 <MagicalTux> :D
1386 2011-05-30 14:36:14 _Netsni3 has joined
1387 2011-05-30 14:36:19 <MagicalTux> phantomcircuit: me
1388 2011-05-30 14:36:28 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, hey on autovps when you change the boot media, it only works if the system is powered off
1389 2011-05-30 14:38:10 <MagicalTux> yep
1390 2011-05-30 14:38:11 <MagicalTux> I know
1391 2011-05-30 14:38:15 <MagicalTux> need to fix that
1392 2011-05-30 14:38:34 _Netsni3 is now known as Netsniper
1393 2011-05-30 14:39:00 _Netsniper_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1394 2011-05-30 14:39:10 TD_ has joined
1395 2011-05-30 14:39:45 eamon has joined
1396 2011-05-30 14:39:59 <eamon> Is deep butt still down?
1397 2011-05-30 14:40:06 <newmont> no
1398 2011-05-30 14:40:18 _Netsniper_ has joined
1399 2011-05-30 14:40:25 <eamon> Where is it on http://bitcoinwatch.com/ ?
1400 2011-05-30 14:40:55 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, i assume that you're using kvm
1401 2011-05-30 14:41:09 <mtrlt> eamon: probably in the "other" piece
1402 2011-05-30 14:41:13 <MagicalTux> phantomcircuit: kvm/xen
1403 2011-05-30 14:42:04 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1404 2011-05-30 14:42:04 TD_ is now known as TD
1405 2011-05-30 14:42:54 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
1406 2011-05-30 14:42:59 <eamon> mtrlt: It used to have its own section.
1407 2011-05-30 14:43:05 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1408 2011-05-30 14:43:33 <eamon> [Tycho]: why is deepbit not on http://bitcoinwatch.com/ ?
1409 2011-05-30 14:43:41 Teslah has joined
1410 2011-05-30 14:43:51 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, you can mix those two in a meaningful way?
1411 2011-05-30 14:43:53 <phantomcircuit> strange
1412 2011-05-30 14:44:04 <MagicalTux> :)
1413 2011-05-30 14:44:48 sipa has left ()
1414 2011-05-30 14:45:02 <mtrlt> eamon: probably communication difficulties
1415 2011-05-30 14:46:29 claudiosan has joined
1416 2011-05-30 14:46:40 <claudiosan> hello everyone
1417 2011-05-30 14:46:53 <claudiosan> I've some problems compiling bitcoin on linux
1418 2011-05-30 14:47:17 <phantomcircuit> claudiosan, hehe
1419 2011-05-30 14:47:21 <phantomcircuit> no kidding :P
1420 2011-05-30 14:47:32 <claudiosan> sorry
1421 2011-05-30 14:47:34 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, using libvirt or something?
1422 2011-05-30 14:47:45 <phantomcircuit> claudiosan, be more specific
1423 2011-05-30 14:48:04 <claudiosan> error: invalid conversion from âconst wxChar*â to âcharâ
1424 2011-05-30 14:48:15 <BlueMatt> claudiosan: required wx 2.9
1425 2011-05-30 14:48:16 <phantomcircuit> you're building with wx 2.8
1426 2011-05-30 14:48:19 <claudiosan> usually I'd use _T() when writing wx code,
1427 2011-05-30 14:48:19 <BlueMatt> read doc/build-unix.txt
1428 2011-05-30 14:48:21 <claudiosan> ah, ok,
1429 2011-05-30 14:48:36 <claudiosan> in 2.9 you can automatically switch between char* and wxString ?
1430 2011-05-30 14:48:40 <phantomcircuit> yes
1431 2011-05-30 14:48:46 <claudiosan> bad idea!
1432 2011-05-30 14:48:48 <claudiosan> :)
1433 2011-05-30 14:48:50 <phantomcircuit> in 2.9 wxString is actually std::string
1434 2011-05-30 14:48:56 <claudiosan> ok, good idea
1435 2011-05-30 14:48:59 <claudiosan> :)
1436 2011-05-30 14:49:07 <claudiosan> thanks
1437 2011-05-30 14:49:07 <phantomcircuit> yes
1438 2011-05-30 14:49:49 <claudiosan> just another thing: has anybody seen a reasonable miner for javascript ?
1439 2011-05-30 14:50:08 <BlueMatt> yes but they are so damn slow its no where near worth it
1440 2011-05-30 14:50:17 <BlueMatt> not even if you got every user on facebook to mine for you
1441 2011-05-30 14:50:30 <claudiosan> damn slow compared to gpu ?
1442 2011-05-30 14:50:38 <BlueMatt> the getwork servers would be so overloaded...
1443 2011-05-30 14:50:42 <phantomcircuit> claudiosan, yes
1444 2011-05-30 14:50:43 <BlueMatt> compared to regular cpu mining as well
1445 2011-05-30 14:50:44 <BlueMatt> by a ton
1446 2011-05-30 14:51:03 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1447 2011-05-30 14:51:43 <claudiosan> mm, I've seen some works on distributed computing with js, and it's interesting, some tasks are well solved this way.
1448 2011-05-30 14:52:06 <phantomcircuit> no actually they're not
1449 2011-05-30 14:52:12 <phantomcircuit> javascript is slow as hell
1450 2011-05-30 14:52:15 <claudiosan> Even if it's 1000 times slower than cpu (I doubt) it scales
1451 2011-05-30 14:52:19 <BlueMatt> no that is when you *need* a ton of users
1452 2011-05-30 14:52:20 <phantomcircuit> even the JIT V8 engine is slow as hell
1453 2011-05-30 14:52:32 <BlueMatt> 1000x is probably about right
1454 2011-05-30 14:52:48 <BlueMatt> the problem is hosting the servers to handle the results and distribute works
1455 2011-05-30 14:53:02 <phantomcircuit> well mostly to distribute the work
1456 2011-05-30 14:53:07 <BlueMatt> in the end its typically cheaper to just do it yourself, especially for bitcoin
1457 2011-05-30 14:53:08 <phantomcircuit> since your wont be finding many results
1458 2011-05-30 14:53:16 <BlueMatt> lol thats true
1459 2011-05-30 14:53:27 FuriousRage has joined
1460 2011-05-30 14:54:01 <claudiosan> mm, I was wondering that NodeJs server could be a good way to rapidly develop a toy proof of concept to distribute mining this way
1461 2011-05-30 14:54:18 <BlueMatt> it would still be *way* cheaper to just buy some gpus
1462 2011-05-30 14:54:33 <BlueMatt> no matter how optimized you can do the js and server
1463 2011-05-30 14:54:50 <BlueMatt> also, a nodejs server to do getwork's would be 10x slower than something written properly in c
1464 2011-05-30 14:55:27 _Netsni3 has joined
1465 2011-05-30 14:55:30 <claudiosan> yes, but scalability it's not about c vs virtual machines
1466 2011-05-30 14:55:31 <FuriousRage> what would the system requirements be to have my own btc pool running? (and would it be benefitial to have one my self with just a few users?)
1467 2011-05-30 14:55:51 <mrb_> I am sure with V8 you could get within 1/10th the perf of jgarzik's cpu miner
1468 2011-05-30 14:56:11 <BlueMatt> scalability is about serving as many getworks per cpu cycle, and for that, c will always win out
1469 2011-05-30 14:56:14 <BlueMatt> if its written right
1470 2011-05-30 14:56:16 <BlueMatt> mrb_: nope
1471 2011-05-30 14:56:21 <BlueMatt> not even close
1472 2011-05-30 14:56:28 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, rofl not even remotely close
1473 2011-05-30 14:56:29 <mrb_> have you tried?
1474 2011-05-30 14:56:35 <BlueMatt> yes people ahve
1475 2011-05-30 14:56:37 <BlueMatt> have*
1476 2011-05-30 14:56:44 <BlueMatt> very, very smart people like ArtForz
1477 2011-05-30 14:57:15 <mrb_> that's an order of magnitude I quoted
1478 2011-05-30 14:57:20 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, the javascript miner cannot take advantage of the sse instructions, using the sse algorithm is fully twice as fast as the straight c routine on this netbook
1479 2011-05-30 14:57:27 <eamon> ArtForz has over 60,000 bitcoins
1480 2011-05-30 14:57:28 <mrb_> but 1/1000th seems like an exageration
1481 2011-05-30 14:57:40 _Netsniper_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1482 2011-05-30 14:57:40 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: even more on a high end cpu
1483 2011-05-30 14:57:52 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, it's probably 100k times slower
1484 2011-05-30 14:57:52 <mrb_> sse gives you roughly a 4x advantage
1485 2011-05-30 14:57:54 <BlueMatt> mrb_: maybe, but 1/100th is the closest you could ever get
1486 2011-05-30 14:58:01 <mrb_> right
1487 2011-05-30 14:58:05 <mrb_> but not 1/1000th
1488 2011-05-30 14:58:07 AnatolV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1489 2011-05-30 14:58:10 <phantomcircuit> if you worked REALLY hard you could get to 1/1000th
1490 2011-05-30 14:58:15 <Vladimir__> erlang is by far the best thing for this stuff, imo
1491 2011-05-30 14:58:26 <BlueMatt> yep and taking anything from js to c, no matter the engine, will speed it up atleast 10x
1492 2011-05-30 14:58:32 <JunK-Y> eamon: where did you see that?
1493 2011-05-30 14:58:33 <phantomcircuit> i took some unoptimized sha256 and was getting 5 single runs a second
1494 2011-05-30 14:58:35 <phantomcircuit> 5
1495 2011-05-30 14:58:49 <mrb_> phantomcircuit: under what browser?
1496 2011-05-30 14:58:54 <mrb_> we are talking about v8
1497 2011-05-30 14:58:55 <phantomcircuit> chrome
1498 2011-05-30 14:58:56 <eamon> Is it possible to use the GPU in my sandy bridge to mine at the saem time as my main GPU?
1499 2011-05-30 14:58:59 <BlueMatt> meh, thats not really a good metric
1500 2011-05-30 14:59:08 <eamon> JunK-Y: From ArtForz
1501 2011-05-30 14:59:09 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, chrome 11 built specifically for this system
1502 2011-05-30 14:59:15 <mrb_> phantomcircuit: you did something really wrong
1503 2011-05-30 14:59:18 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, 100k times slower
1504 2011-05-30 14:59:21 <JunK-Y> eamon: you can, but cpu computations is like nothing vs a gpu
1505 2011-05-30 14:59:23 <eamon> JunK-Y: He said it in this chan
1506 2011-05-30 14:59:29 <luke-jr> eamon: you have it backward
1507 2011-05-30 14:59:34 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, sure i didn't optimize it at all
1508 2011-05-30 14:59:39 <luke-jr> eamon: you use the SB GPU for desktop, and the other one for mining
1509 2011-05-30 14:59:39 <JunK-Y> then, ArtForz will pay the beer!
1510 2011-05-30 14:59:47 _Netsni3 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1511 2011-05-30 14:59:55 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, but if out of the gate you're 100k times slower you're not going to be getting much better with
1512 2011-05-30 14:59:59 <claudiosan> ok, the performance is not relevant. Let's assume 1000x is the difference (I doubt). Reddit has 700000 impressions per day. Let's assume each of the do a few tries with sha256. It's anyhow 700 gpus
1513 2011-05-30 15:00:00 <eamon> luke-jr: I want to use them both to mine at the same time
1514 2011-05-30 15:00:17 <mrb_> phantomcircuit: did you make sure JIT was used?
1515 2011-05-30 15:00:19 <ArtForz> wrong
1516 2011-05-30 15:00:22 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, yup
1517 2011-05-30 15:00:27 <eamon> JunK-Y: There's one dude on the forums who has 300,000 bitcoins
1518 2011-05-30 15:00:29 <BlueMatt> claudiosan: no
1519 2011-05-30 15:00:35 <ArtForz> concurrent users is interesting, not page views
1520 2011-05-30 15:00:36 <FuriousRage> is there a more "general" btc channel that isnt -dev oriented?
1521 2011-05-30 15:00:37 <BlueMatt> you have any idea the power you need on the backend?
1522 2011-05-30 15:00:39 <mrb_> and where was the bottlenecked coming from?
1523 2011-05-30 15:00:49 <ArtForz> yep
1524 2011-05-30 15:00:49 <BlueMatt> FuriousRage: #bitcoin
1525 2011-05-30 15:00:53 <phantomcircuit> claudiosan, lol no, that's 700 cpus, which is maybe 1 gpu
1526 2011-05-30 15:00:56 <FuriousRage> BlueMatt: thank you.
1527 2011-05-30 15:01:01 FuriousRage has left ()
1528 2011-05-30 15:01:23 <luke-jr> eamon: since Intel GPUs don't support OpenCL, good luck
1529 2011-05-30 15:02:04 <eamon> that's that then! I wonder if bulldozer will... We will find out tomorrow!
1530 2011-05-30 15:02:06 Netsniper has joined
1531 2011-05-30 15:02:13 <ArtForz> why shouldnt it?
1532 2011-05-30 15:02:25 <luke-jr> eamon: unless you run Windows I mean
1533 2011-05-30 15:02:32 <luke-jr> Intel has some OpenCL beta for Windows IIRC
1534 2011-05-30 15:02:50 <claudiosan> js is not 1000 time slower than asm :) no way It's compiled, It's assembly too. I'll tell you the diffrence between asm optimized sha256 and a js version with v8
1535 2011-05-30 15:02:55 <ArtForz> it's a 6xxx IGP, dont see why it wouldnt support OpenCL
1536 2011-05-30 15:03:30 <mrb_> phantomcircuit: so?
1537 2011-05-30 15:03:37 <mrb_> bottleneck?
1538 2011-05-30 15:03:40 <ArtForz> js is just massively ill-suited
1539 2011-05-30 15:03:47 <eamon> luke-jr: oh, cool. I don't know if I can even access teh GPU with a p67 chipset though,
1540 2011-05-30 15:04:05 <luke-jr> eamon: good question. probably locked out on Windows at least
1541 2011-05-30 15:04:06 <mrb_> 5 per second is ridiculous. without trying you can get at least 1k-10k per sec
1542 2011-05-30 15:04:19 <ArtForz> yep
1543 2011-05-30 15:04:22 <luke-jr> eamon: hence why I've always avoided P67
1544 2011-05-30 15:04:44 <ArtForz> a few k/s sounds reasonable
1545 2011-05-30 15:04:49 <luke-jr> eamon: since the Sandy Bridge GPUs get the best 3D performance on Linux, I want to stick with it for my display
1546 2011-05-30 15:05:03 <ArtForz> which is... about a factor 1000 slower than optimized sse2
1547 2011-05-30 15:05:30 torsthaldo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1548 2011-05-30 15:05:32 <mrb_> phantomcircuit: I don't think you understand how fast js can be under v8 when properly optimized
1549 2011-05-30 15:05:52 <luke-jr> mrb_: V8 uses SSE2?
1550 2011-05-30 15:05:52 <BlueMatt> mrb_: and you dont understand how fast optimized sse2 can be
1551 2011-05-30 15:06:07 <mrb_> nope but again sse2 is only 4x faster than regular ALU workloads
1552 2011-05-30 15:06:14 <ArtForz> yup
1553 2011-05-30 15:06:20 <mrb_> luke-jr: nope
1554 2011-05-30 15:06:33 <mrb_> you guys should look at the 3D engine shit that people code in js
1555 2011-05-30 15:06:40 <ArtForz> aka "even JITing JS engines suck"
1556 2011-05-30 15:06:42 <mrb_> 3D *rendering enigne
1557 2011-05-30 15:07:01 <ArtForz> yes, because integer is floating point, in a language that only has a floating point type...
1558 2011-05-30 15:07:11 torsthaldo has joined
1559 2011-05-30 15:07:23 <BlueMatt> mrb_: well there is a floss js miner, go optimize it see how far you get, I guarantee you it wont be as fast as you seem to think
1560 2011-05-30 15:07:32 <ArtForz> yep, have fun
1561 2011-05-30 15:07:58 <BlueMatt> and even then, have fun optimizing the backend to get even somewhat reasonable getwork/secs
1562 2011-05-30 15:08:04 <ArtForz> completely pointless, but so is implementing a miner on a 8-bit micro ;)
1563 2011-05-30 15:08:13 <mrb_> BlueMatt: you agreed that 1/100th of jgarzi's perf is doabl.
1564 2011-05-30 15:08:18 <BlueMatt> maybe
1565 2011-05-30 15:08:23 <BlueMatt> probably not, but maybe
1566 2011-05-30 15:09:03 <BlueMatt> also, keep in mind that browsers are not designed to handle high-pref applications like this, they will crap out and probably just say "page is using too much cpu and was terminated"
1567 2011-05-30 15:09:16 <ArtForz> why so fixated on js anways?
1568 2011-05-30 15:09:26 <mrb_> I just disagree with people who quote an order of magnitude less than 1/100th
1569 2011-05-30 15:09:34 <ArtForz> use a java crapplet, that'll at least get you to 1/40 or so ;)
1570 2011-05-30 15:09:50 <luke-jr> does Windows still ship with Java?
1571 2011-05-30 15:09:52 <mrb_> I am not fixating on js, I disagree with obviously wrong perf estimations.
1572 2011-05-30 15:09:54 DontMindMe has joined
1573 2011-05-30 15:09:59 <BlueMatt> better option: take advantage of one of the million flash vulns and install cpuminer
1574 2011-05-30 15:10:05 <luke-jr> lol
1575 2011-05-30 15:10:07 <mrb_> I have zero interest in actually writing a js miner.
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1578 2011-05-30 15:11:23 datagutt is now known as datagutt2
1579 2011-05-30 15:11:46 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-252-47-102.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Guest15465
1580 2011-05-30 15:12:34 datagutt2 is now known as datagutt
1581 2011-05-30 15:14:24 <lulzplzkthx> js != java
1582 2011-05-30 15:14:31 _Netsniper_ has joined
1583 2011-05-30 15:14:35 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1584 2011-05-30 15:14:40 <ArtForz> lulzplzkthx: water is wet
1585 2011-05-30 15:14:45 <lulzplzkthx> fire is hot
1586 2011-05-30 15:14:53 <ArtForz> more revelations after the break
1587 2011-05-30 15:14:55 <BlueMatt> what????
1588 2011-05-30 15:15:02 <lulzplzkthx> but who is john galt?
1589 2011-05-30 15:15:47 <BlueMatt> your mother
1590 2011-05-30 15:16:14 <lulzplzkthx> :(
1591 2011-05-30 15:16:22 <lulzplzkthx> So she helped overthrow a collectivist society?
1592 2011-05-30 15:16:32 <BlueMatt> yep
1593 2011-05-30 15:16:48 <claudiosan> sorry, what does the main miner loop does ? just sha(sha(stuff)) ?
1594 2011-05-30 15:16:55 Guest15465 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1595 2011-05-30 15:16:55 <Namegduf> I'm secretly John Galt.
1596 2011-05-30 15:17:20 <forrestv> claudiosan, well, yeah
1597 2011-05-30 15:17:38 <claudiosan> and if it's less than the golden value increments a rand number, is it correct ?
1598 2011-05-30 15:17:51 <BlueMatt> pretty much
1599 2011-05-30 15:18:02 <forrestv> if it's less than the 'golden value' (target) it submits it and collects the payout...
1600 2011-05-30 15:18:04 <BlueMatt> but since only the nonce gets changed between rounds you dont have to do a full sha
1601 2011-05-30 15:18:10 <lulzplzkthx> I thought he said "gold value of a railroad track track, is that correct?"
1602 2011-05-30 15:18:13 <lulzplzkthx> I was like "..."
1603 2011-05-30 15:18:23 * lulzplzkthx should probably go back to sleep.
1604 2011-05-30 15:18:38 <forrestv> if it's higher it increments the nonce and keeps trying
1605 2011-05-30 15:19:50 <claudiosan> BlueMatt: what you mean by full sha ? the sha isn't calculate on a struct of data that includes, also, the target ?
1606 2011-05-30 15:20:18 <BlueMatt> claudiosan: no, I mean part of the stuff you would have to do on a full sha can be skipped
1607 2011-05-30 15:20:31 <BlueMatt> as only one part of the data has been changed
1608 2011-05-30 15:20:54 <claudiosan> mm
1609 2011-05-30 15:20:55 <mrb_> claudiosan: it's sha(sha(80bytes)) - the first 64 of the 80 bytes never change
1610 2011-05-30 15:21:41 <claudiosan> I don't remember sha, for me it's a black box with complicated wiring of inputs. Few bytes dont change mm..
1611 2011-05-30 15:22:07 <lulzplzkthx> Few bytes don't change doesn't change the output of sha at all.
1612 2011-05-30 15:22:13 <lulzplzkthx> It will be just as "random" to the naked eye.
1613 2011-05-30 15:22:20 <mrb_> sha(80bytes) would require 2 calls to the compression function, but only the 2nd needs to be re-done when the last 16 bytes change
1614 2011-05-30 15:22:27 <lulzplzkthx> aaaa is very different from aaab
1615 2011-05-30 15:22:48 <BlueMatt> what mrb_ said
1616 2011-05-30 15:23:08 <BlueMatt> the output rolls over nicely resulting in something as random as ever
1617 2011-05-30 15:23:17 <claudiosan> mm ok so ad hoc implementation is required
1618 2011-05-30 15:24:26 <BlueMatt> not required, you could do a standard sha(sha(...)) but that is just slower
1619 2011-05-30 15:25:10 <mtrlt> or just use the midstate you get when you getwork
1620 2011-05-30 15:26:04 <claudiosan> when right nonce is found, what do you use to get the reward ? I mean, standard bitcoin c++ implementation ? there are alternatives ?
1621 2011-05-30 15:26:23 <BlueMatt> not that can mine
1622 2011-05-30 15:26:41 <BlueMatt> for mining you need the blockchain, and currently no other clients/libs support that
1623 2011-05-30 15:27:00 karnac has joined
1624 2011-05-30 15:27:12 <claudiosan> ok, miner just call bitcoin c++ functions
1625 2011-05-30 15:27:31 Akiron has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1626 2011-05-30 15:27:50 <BlueMatt> or rpc, like all the good miners
1627 2011-05-30 15:27:56 <claudiosan> rpc ?
1628 2011-05-30 15:27:59 <BlueMatt> the built-int miner sucks
1629 2011-05-30 15:28:05 <BlueMatt> in*
1630 2011-05-30 15:28:12 <BlueMatt> claudiosan: google?
1631 2011-05-30 15:28:25 <claudiosan> rpc to what ?
1632 2011-05-30 15:28:36 <BlueMatt> the mainline c++ client
1633 2011-05-30 15:28:47 <BlueMatt> which then broadcasts the block to its peers
1634 2011-05-30 15:29:18 <claudiosan> mm, I'm ignorant. Rpc via which protocol ?
1635 2011-05-30 15:30:02 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,wiki API reference
1636 2011-05-30 15:30:03 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_(JSON-RPC) | May 25, 2011 ... API reference (JSON-RPC). From Bitcoin. Jump to: navigation, search .... API calls list · Running Bitcoin · Lazy API ...
1637 2011-05-30 15:30:09 <iz> claudiosan: there is a json-rpc server you can start w/ the client
1638 2011-05-30 15:30:26 <iz> it can be set w/ commandline or in your bitcoin.conf
1639 2011-05-30 15:30:35 <claudiosan> ahah great :) that's what nodejs needs
1640 2011-05-30 15:30:57 <claudiosan> thanks guys
1641 2011-05-30 15:31:40 <iz> it still doesn't report hashes-per-sec right though
1642 2011-05-30 15:32:01 <iz> like.. the client won't report what the rpc miners are doing
1643 2011-05-30 15:32:01 Lambdanaut has joined
1644 2011-05-30 15:32:07 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1645 2011-05-30 15:32:17 <iz> or i haven't figured out how to do that yet
1646 2011-05-30 15:32:18 <BlueMatt> of course not
1647 2011-05-30 15:32:35 <iz> BlueMatt: so do ppl just set up their own pushpools to see that data?
1648 2011-05-30 15:32:36 <BlueMatt> you could guess based on solutions per time, but that is a waste of tiem
1649 2011-05-30 15:32:47 <intelliot> ok, i forwarded the 3 ports and now it's working. i think requiring people to open ports is a major hurdle to bitcoin adoption. is there any way to fix this?
1650 2011-05-30 15:32:59 <BlueMatt> take a look at the deepbit speed, its so random and often is very far off what your actual speed is
1651 2011-05-30 15:33:10 <BlueMatt> intelliot: 3 ports?
1652 2011-05-30 15:33:33 <iz> he prob means the irc ports also?
1653 2011-05-30 15:34:12 Akiron has joined
1654 2011-05-30 15:34:28 <BlueMatt> intelliot: a couple things, a. you dont *need* to forward any ports for bitcoin to work, b. you only need to forward one port, forwarding any more does exactly nothing, and probably opens you up to security holes (Im assuming one of the 3 was your rpc port) c. its already fixed, just check the use upnp box in the options and enable upnp on your router (it almost always is by default)
1655 2011-05-30 15:34:40 bittrader has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1656 2011-05-30 15:35:08 <intelliot> this is what i was told:
1657 2011-05-30 15:35:09 <intelliot> ACCEPT all  $FW  tcp  8333
1658 2011-05-30 15:35:09 <intelliot> ACCEPT all  $FW  tcp  6667
1659 2011-05-30 15:35:09 <intelliot> ACCEPT all  $FW  tcp  7777
1660 2011-05-30 15:35:25 <BlueMatt> wtf?
1661 2011-05-30 15:35:29 <BlueMatt> who told you that
1662 2011-05-30 15:35:38 <BlueMatt> you need 8333 only, the rest are not used by bitcoin
1663 2011-05-30 15:35:46 <BlueMatt> *ever*
1664 2011-05-30 15:36:06 <intelliot> ne0futur. anyway, re: a. it was stuck at 113417 blocks, i waited 50 min and it wasn't going up
1665 2011-05-30 15:36:19 ttblrs_ has joined
1666 2011-05-30 15:36:23 <intelliot> so, bitcoin wasn't working without forwarding the port
1667 2011-05-30 15:36:37 <ne0futur> BlueMatt: i told this
1668 2011-05-30 15:36:38 <intelliot> (the previous blocks were from when i ran bitcoin a few months ago)
1669 2011-05-30 15:36:42 <ne0futur> the bitcoin port and the IRC ports
1670 2011-05-30 15:36:54 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: irc ports? wtf is wrong with you?
1671 2011-05-30 15:36:56 <ne0futur> I had the same problem
1672 2011-05-30 15:37:07 <ne0futur> bitcoin dont use irc to find other nodes ?
1673 2011-05-30 15:37:18 <ne0futur> tcpdump shows it
1674 2011-05-30 15:37:24 <pierre`> it does
1675 2011-05-30 15:37:32 <BlueMatt> the bitcoin port, 8333, could use opening as recently it has become hard to bootstrap
1676 2011-05-30 15:37:35 <pierre`> you have a nice channels with 11k nodes
1677 2011-05-30 15:37:45 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: you realize you dont have to open a port to make an outgoing connection right?
1678 2011-05-30 15:37:48 <intelliot> re: c. in my Options, "Map port using uPnP" is grayed out, i can't check it
1679 2011-05-30 15:37:56 <ne0futur> BlueMatt: it depends on your firewall
1680 2011-05-30 15:38:13 <ne0futur> a good firewall is closing everything , incoming and outgoing
1681 2011-05-30 15:38:30 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: in fact, bitcoin does *not* use port 6667 or 7777 to make outgoing connections, on *all* oses, a random high-number port is chosen on your outgoing connections
1682 2011-05-30 15:38:37 <ne0futur> i had the same problem as intelliot just had
1683 2011-05-30 15:38:48 <ne0futur> after he did what i said . . . the block count is going up
1684 2011-05-30 15:38:49 <BlueMatt> those ports are just on the remote machine, not on yours
1685 2011-05-30 15:38:58 <BlueMatt> yes, that is because you forwareded the bitcoin port
1686 2011-05-30 15:39:04 <pierre`> BlueMatt: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/irc.cpp, line 268
1687 2011-05-30 15:39:13 <BlueMatt> that has nothing to do with irc, you need to learn about basic networking concepts
1688 2011-05-30 15:39:13 <ne0futur> (17:31) <@ BlueMatt> those ports are just on the remote machine, not on yours
1689 2011-05-30 15:39:19 <ne0futur> you dont understand what is a firewall
1690 2011-05-30 15:39:20 <ne0futur> sorry
1691 2011-05-30 15:39:24 <BlueMatt> lol
1692 2011-05-30 15:39:30 <BlueMatt> intelliot: mac build, Im assuming?
1693 2011-05-30 15:39:33 claudiosan has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1694 2011-05-30 15:39:36 <intelliot> yes
1695 2011-05-30 15:39:37 <mrb_> BlueMatt, phantomcircuit: you were wrong.
1696 2011-05-30 15:39:39 <ne0futur> i have to allow outgoing connections to the distant port
1697 2011-05-30 15:39:47 <mrb_> bitp.it = 8kHash/s
1698 2011-05-30 15:39:55 <mrb_> jgarzik sse2 = 724 kHash/s
1699 2011-05-30 15:40:04 <mrb_> 90x difference
1700 2011-05-30 15:40:14 <mrb_> not 1000x as you claimed (phantomcircuit)
1701 2011-05-30 15:40:15 <BlueMatt> intelliot: yea, laszlo messed up the 0.3.21 builds and removed upnp, that should show up in the next version
1702 2011-05-30 15:40:30 <jaromil> BlueMatt: rly?!
1703 2011-05-30 15:40:43 <ArtForz> what kinda cpu does 724kH/s using sse2?
1704 2011-05-30 15:40:43 <mrb_> with chrome v8 on Core i3-380
1705 2011-05-30 15:40:50 <jaromil> holy shit, which commit?
1706 2011-05-30 15:40:54 <ne0futur> BlueMatt: a firewall is not only for blocking incoming connections, it can also be used to limit outgoing connections
1707 2011-05-30 15:41:04 <jaromil> blame it!
1708 2011-05-30 15:41:07 <mrb_> geez. I hate it have to dig up the numbers myself to prove my point. tsssk.
1709 2011-05-30 15:41:13 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: ok, if on your fw, you have to enable the option to make outgoing connections on port x or y, that is fine, but then dont go telling people to *forward* their ports, that is a completely different thing
1710 2011-05-30 15:41:17 <ne0futur> you can block local source port or distant destination port
1711 2011-05-30 15:41:22 <BlueMatt> jaromil: not a commit, just built with USE_UPNP=
1712 2011-05-30 15:41:27 <jaromil> ahhhh ok
1713 2011-05-30 15:41:36 <ne0futur> BlueMatt: i never told intelliot to forward the ports
1714 2011-05-30 15:41:42 <ne0futur> (17:27) < intelliot> ACCEPT all  $FW  tcp  8333
1715 2011-05-30 15:41:42 <ne0futur> (17:27) < intelliot> ACCEPT all  $FW  tcp  6667
1716 2011-05-30 15:41:42 <ne0futur> (17:27) < intelliot> ACCEPT all  $FW  tcp  7777
1717 2011-05-30 15:41:49 <BlueMatt> which is wrong, btw
1718 2011-05-30 15:41:53 <ne0futur> ACCEPT != FORWARD
1719 2011-05-30 15:42:10 <BlueMatt> jaromil: well, I dont blame him, he misinterpreted USE_UPNP like everyone else
1720 2011-05-30 15:42:21 <ArtForz> so... a 100x difference, using sse2 code thats not optimized for the cpu, on a cpu that has rather poor sse2 perf to start with. yay!
1721 2011-05-30 15:42:23 <ne0futur> BlueMatt: ok but after he changed this in the firewall, the block count is going up ;)
1722 2011-05-30 15:42:39 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: yes, but 8333 and 6667 need to be under ACCEPT in outgoing, not incomming, which is not true there
1723 2011-05-30 15:42:41 <ne0futur> and I seen this using tcpdump
1724 2011-05-30 15:42:46 * mrb_ goes back to optimizing his CAL miner
1725 2011-05-30 15:42:53 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: yes, after he forwarded on 8333, it got connections
1726 2011-05-30 15:42:57 <ne0futur> BlueMatt: the firewall is between me and the internet
1727 2011-05-30 15:42:59 <BlueMatt> not because of irc shit
1728 2011-05-30 15:43:11 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i meant 'git blame' :D
1729 2011-05-30 15:43:13 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: what type of fw?
1730 2011-05-30 15:43:41 <ne0futur> mine is linux / shorewall, i dont know what is the one of intelliot
1731 2011-05-30 15:43:44 <BlueMatt> I mean seriously, what kind of shitty fw disables all outgoing connections by default?
1732 2011-05-30 15:44:01 <ne0futur> i have this typw of firewall on my 23 dedicated servers
1733 2011-05-30 15:44:09 <mrb_> ArtForz: so? the js code is not optimized too. function calls for everything. loops not unrolled. using unnecessary arrays to store variables. etc.
1734 2011-05-30 15:44:12 <ne0futur> reject all
1735 2011-05-30 15:44:16 <ne0futur> and then open one by one
1736 2011-05-30 15:44:32 <mrb_> the baseline diff is ~90x. period.
1737 2011-05-30 15:44:34 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: ok, so iptables...what is the default on iptables -L for OUTGOING?
1738 2011-05-30 15:44:35 <ne0futur> and many firewalls from hotels, wifi networks do the same
1739 2011-05-30 15:44:41 <ArtForz> great
1740 2011-05-30 15:44:42 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: no they dont
1741 2011-05-30 15:44:55 <ne0futur> on my severs the default is to drop
1742 2011-05-30 15:44:59 <BlueMatt> wtf kind of hotel blocks all outgoing connections, except for explicity allowed ports?
1743 2011-05-30 15:45:02 <mrb_> whoever wrote that js code did not seem to make a single attempt to optimize it.
1744 2011-05-30 15:45:04 <ne0futur> k BlueMatt you are god and you know everything
1745 2011-05-30 15:45:09 <ne0futur> i dont have time to loose with you
1746 2011-05-30 15:45:10 lumos has joined
1747 2011-05-30 15:45:17 <ArtForz> and it's still utterly pointless
1748 2011-05-30 15:45:23 <ne0futur> i helped intelliot get his client working
1749 2011-05-30 15:45:27 <mrb_> oh I agree on that.
1750 2011-05-30 15:45:30 <ne0futur> i dont need you to believe me :p
1751 2011-05-30 15:45:37 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: lol, ok well then pay attention to what you tell people instead of telling them to open 10000 useless ports
1752 2011-05-30 15:46:07 <intelliot> relax. i appreciate everyone's help :)
1753 2011-05-30 15:46:15 <ne0futur> not its working for him, before it was not working
1754 2011-05-30 15:46:18 <ArtForz> really sucks that one one makes a cheap vector processor that can push insane amounts of integer ops/second...
1755 2011-05-30 15:46:25 <ne0futur> /ignore BlueMatt
1756 2011-05-30 15:46:25 <ArtForz> oh, wait... ;)
1757 2011-05-30 15:46:26 <ne0futur> bye
1758 2011-05-30 15:46:31 <BlueMatt> ne0futur: for the last time, that is because 8333 was forwarded...
1759 2011-05-30 15:46:34 <ArtForz> webCL could get *very* interesting
1760 2011-05-30 15:46:54 johnnympereira5 has joined
1761 2011-05-30 15:47:06 <BlueMatt> ArtForz: yes, if it ever gets added to browsers, its still a long way off
1762 2011-05-30 15:47:16 <BlueMatt> (and not even the plugins work on linux x64 yet)
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1765 2011-05-30 15:52:41 <Pilate> BlueMatt: is it not possible to emulate/copy with webgl?
1766 2011-05-30 15:52:50 <Pilate> even roughly?
1767 2011-05-30 15:52:57 <BlueMatt> Pilate: that is a much better question for ArtForz
1768 2011-05-30 15:53:05 <newmont> the big issue is browser support
1769 2011-05-30 15:53:06 <ArtForz> dunno
1770 2011-05-30 15:53:10 <ArtForz> I don't think so
1771 2011-05-30 15:53:16 fimp has joined
1772 2011-05-30 15:53:18 <ArtForz> iirc webgl is missing a lot of integer ops
1773 2011-05-30 15:54:19 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1774 2011-05-30 15:54:50 <ArtForz> webgl = opengl es 2.0 shaders
1775 2011-05-30 15:55:34 mmoya has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
1776 2011-05-30 15:57:06 <wumpus> so opengl extensions are not available in webgl?\
1777 2011-05-30 15:57:25 <ArtForz> they should be
1778 2011-05-30 15:57:49 <wumpus> at least nvidia has some opengl extensions that introduce a wide range of integer ops, I don't know about ATI
1779 2011-05-30 15:57:56 <ArtForz> but es 2.0 shaders = no bitwise ops, no bitshifts, ...
1780 2011-05-30 15:58:11 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
1781 2011-05-30 15:58:15 <wumpus> you provide some statement at the beginning of the glsl shader to activate it
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1785 2011-05-30 15:59:54 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r87 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Wallet.java: Add FileInputStream/FileOutputStream accepting versions of the wallet load/save methods. This makes things a bit easier on Android.
1786 2011-05-30 16:00:58 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r88 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/NetworkConnection.java: Don't create the log line for message dumping in NetworkConnection unless that level of debug logging is enabled. This was dominating the profiles on Android.
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1795 2011-05-30 16:14:05 <rampone_> aPUSHPOOLD QUESTION: RPC miner to ppd authentification runs, ppd seems to have a problem connecting to bitcoind: pushpoold[12503]: HTTP request failed: The requested URL returned error: 500 [17:57] <rampone> the test command: curl --user Ulysseys --data-binary '{"jsonrpc": "1.0", "id":"curltest", "method": "getinfo", "params": [] }' -H 'content-type: text/plain;' http://127.0.0.1:8332/ runs just fine
1796 2011-05-30 16:20:13 <UukGoblin> is there a way to tell bitcoin to re-check all blocks without re-downloading them all (i.e. after a wallet.dat swap)?
1797 2011-05-30 16:21:43 <nanotube> UukGoblin: -rescan
1798 2011-05-30 16:21:56 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r89 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
1799 2011-05-30 16:21:56 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: Add BoundedOverheadBlockStore. This is suitable for usage on constrained devices like Android phones that cannot afford to store the chain headers in RAM.
1800 2011-05-30 16:21:56 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: On a MacBook pro with this store, the chain can be downloaded at about 2000
1801 2011-05-30 16:24:45 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
1802 2011-05-30 16:25:48 <UukGoblin> nanotube, awesome, I assume it's newer than 0.3.19
1803 2011-05-30 16:27:21 <nanotube> UukGoblin: heh don't recall when that was added, exactly. but iirc .20
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1807 2011-05-30 16:29:33 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: why are you still on 0.3.19?
1808 2011-05-30 16:29:51 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, cause I'm lazy?
1809 2011-05-30 16:30:17 <UukGoblin> plus there's some fee changes in .22 coming that I'm not sure I like...
1810 2011-05-30 16:31:07 <BlueMatt> ?
1811 2011-05-30 16:31:31 <UukGoblin> minimum fee drops from 0.01 to 0.0005 or sth?
1812 2011-05-30 16:31:53 <BlueMatt> what does it matter if you arent a big miner
1813 2011-05-30 16:31:58 <UukGoblin> I am a big miner
1814 2011-05-30 16:31:59 <BlueMatt> in which case patching that out is really easy
1815 2011-05-30 16:32:13 manifold has joined
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1817 2011-05-30 16:32:39 <UukGoblin> cba upgrading my whole rig every time a new version comes out
1818 2011-05-30 16:32:40 <BlueMatt> in any case, you shouldnt be using something that old to mine...
1819 2011-05-30 16:32:55 <BlueMatt> it takes 10 secs to close one bitcoin and open another
1820 2011-05-30 16:33:05 <UukGoblin> per box ;-]
1821 2011-05-30 16:33:16 <BlueMatt> why do you have multiple bitcoinds?
1822 2011-05-30 16:33:23 <BlueMatt> why not one bitcoin and a ton of rpc
1823 2011-05-30 16:34:26 <BlueMatt> and Im hoping to god not all of those are actually on the bitcoin network downloading blocks from peers, and are just peered with each other?
1824 2011-05-30 16:34:46 <Namegduf> If they're peering fine
1825 2011-05-30 16:34:59 <Namegduf> Then once the initial download is done, they'll be serving a lot of connections at least.
1826 2011-05-30 16:35:13 <BlueMatt> not if they are wasteing other peers bw instead of dlding from each other
1827 2011-05-30 16:35:17 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, I'm... getting there ;-]
1828 2011-05-30 16:35:24 <BlueMatt> lol
1829 2011-05-30 16:35:42 <BlueMatt> Namegduf: and about relaying txes to a ton more nodes?
1830 2011-05-30 16:35:50 <BlueMatt> and blocks
1831 2011-05-30 16:36:01 <UukGoblin> tbh, I've upgraded that last week mostly
1832 2011-05-30 16:36:04 <BlueMatt> and the cpu it takes to manage connections?
1833 2011-05-30 16:36:07 <UukGoblin> one bitcoind, many miners
1834 2011-05-30 16:36:10 underscor has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1835 2011-05-30 16:36:12 <UukGoblin> and that's running on .21+git
1836 2011-05-30 16:36:19 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
1837 2011-05-30 16:36:20 <UukGoblin> I have some old boxes still though
1838 2011-05-30 16:36:38 <BlueMatt> well its much better that way, and if you want ha, you can http-proxy them
1839 2011-05-30 16:36:48 <BlueMatt> run, say, 2 bitcoind's and http-proxy of some kind
1840 2011-05-30 16:36:48 <UukGoblin> mhm
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1851 2011-05-30 16:45:47 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, have you considered lowering the minimum purchase amount for btc on mtgox?
1852 2011-05-30 16:46:48 <mrb_> isn't than 1 BTC minimum?
1853 2011-05-30 16:46:52 <mrb_> that*
1854 2011-05-30 16:46:56 <phantomcircuit> yes
1855 2011-05-30 16:47:01 <phantomcircuit> but that's now like 8
1856 2011-05-30 16:49:08 <mrb_> 8 as in 8khash/s :)
1857 2011-05-30 16:50:13 <phantomcircuit> huh
1858 2011-05-30 16:50:17 <phantomcircuit> as in usd
1859 2011-05-30 16:50:27 <luke-jr> it used to be 10
1860 2011-05-30 16:50:53 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: if you feel like it, it would be cool if someone built my eligius_sendfee and eligius_sendonly branches for Windows Wx ;)
1861 2011-05-30 16:51:19 <jackmcbarn> am i reading bitcoinwatch correctly? is 1btc really worth more than 8usd?
1862 2011-05-30 16:51:30 <phantomcircuit> jackmcbarn, yes
1863 2011-05-30 16:51:34 <phantomcircuit> but think of it this way
1864 2011-05-30 16:51:56 <phantomcircuit> 1000000 microbtc is worth only 8.6 usd!
1865 2011-05-30 16:52:10 <jackmcbarn> so?
1866 2011-05-30 16:53:18 <mrb_> his point is: why does it surprise you that one arbitrarily chosen unit (usd) is worth a certain amount of another arbitrarily chosen unit (btc)
1867 2011-05-30 16:53:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why?
1868 2011-05-30 16:53:47 <jackmcbarn> because i generated a block of 50btc a while ago. i didnt expect the prices to be this high
1869 2011-05-30 16:53:58 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: for Windows users
1870 2011-05-30 16:54:02 <jackmcbarn> wasn't the exchange rate a lot lower just a few months ago?
1871 2011-05-30 16:54:16 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, I mean why do people need your branches?
1872 2011-05-30 16:54:30 <mrb_> jackmcbarn: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg90zvztgSzm1g10zm2g25
1873 2011-05-30 16:54:32 <luke-jr> jackmcbarn: I will gladly buy your 50 BTC at the price of 1 USD each, if that is better for you
1874 2011-05-30 16:54:44 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: eligius_sendfee enables people to pay Eligius's lower transaction fees
1875 2011-05-30 16:54:55 <tcatm> very ugly listtransactions->csv script, improvements welcome: http://www.nilsschneider.net/2011/05/30/listtransactions-csv.html
1876 2011-05-30 16:55:04 <jackmcbarn> seriously, what im asking is why the price jumped over 700% in only a few months
1877 2011-05-30 16:55:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: eligius_sendonly prevents any miner other than Eligius from including transactions-- I was asked for this, nfc why you'd want to
1878 2011-05-30 16:55:15 <luke-jr> jackmcbarn: demand
1879 2011-05-30 16:55:19 Cusipzzz has joined
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1881 2011-05-30 16:55:41 <mrb_> jackmcbarn: for the same reason it has jumped over 700% 3 months before that. and before that. and before that.
1882 2011-05-30 16:55:43 <Castor_> hey guys, about how many miners can bitcoind support?
1883 2011-05-30 16:55:55 <luke-jr> Castor_: depends on your CPU
1884 2011-05-30 16:55:57 <luke-jr> :p
1885 2011-05-30 16:56:06 <Castor_> intel i7
1886 2011-05-30 16:56:20 <Castor_> 3.4ghz
1887 2011-05-30 16:56:30 <ne0futur> jackmcbarn: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#kgbcmPPUSDzrg180zigHourlyzvztgMzbgEza1gSMAzm1g10za2gWMAzm2g25zi1gVolzi2gPVT
1888 2011-05-30 16:56:55 Incitatus has joined
1889 2011-05-30 16:56:58 <phantomcircuit> Castor_, 5
1890 2011-05-30 16:56:59 <phantomcircuit> lol
1891 2011-05-30 16:57:02 Mononofu has joined
1892 2011-05-30 16:57:05 <Incitatus> tcatm: hey
1893 2011-05-30 16:57:07 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: well to the first, all the fee crap will be redone, and the amount paid should be customizable to whatever you like then...until that point, I dont see any reason to build binaries for win32 users for that (those people will dl it assuming those low fees give them a huge advantage when they only get a tiny one from eligius). to the second...wait what does it do? make all miners make blocks with no txes?
1894 2011-05-30 16:57:30 <Incitatus> tcatm: Genjix and I have been trying to contact you for a long long time
1895 2011-05-30 16:58:07 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I didn't ask to merge. :p
1896 2011-05-30 16:58:18 <tcatm> Incitatus: hrm, did you write emails?
1897 2011-05-30 16:58:19 <Castor_> what phantomcircuit?
1898 2011-05-30 16:58:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the latter one creates an output for fees; that output can only be spent by Eligius
1899 2011-05-30 16:58:38 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's also non-standard to prevent other miners from accepting it
1900 2011-05-30 16:58:42 <phantomcircuit> Castor_, it was a joke, the rpc server cant handle very many clients simultaneously even with a fast cpu
1901 2011-05-30 16:59:21 <Incitatus> tcatm: I don't know if genjix did, we wrote PMs on the forums
1902 2011-05-30 16:59:27 <phantomcircuit> lol intentionally non standard txs
1903 2011-05-30 16:59:36 toffoo has quit ()
1904 2011-05-30 16:59:40 <Incitatus> tcatm: we see you've been inactive though for a while, are you back at home?
1905 2011-05-30 16:59:44 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: wait...so the second creates a tx one of which's outputs is just a payment to eligius, and then the tx is made non-standard so that only eligius will include it???? wait..WTF???
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1907 2011-05-30 16:59:59 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: like I said, NFC why someone wants that
1908 2011-05-30 17:00:07 <luke-jr> "to support their pool" was the reason they told me
1909 2011-05-30 17:00:12 <BlueMatt> yea...Im not building that shit
1910 2011-05-30 17:00:17 <luke-jr> ie, they don't want other miners getting their tx fees
1911 2011-05-30 17:00:31 <BlueMatt> then why dont they just donate to you?
1912 2011-05-30 17:00:32 <tcatm> Incitatus: currently yes
1913 2011-05-30 17:00:35 <luke-jr> lol true
1914 2011-05-30 17:00:41 <luke-jr> anyhow, sendfee makes sense ;)
1915 2011-05-30 17:00:53 <luke-jr> sendfee chooses the lower of the two current fee schedules
1916 2011-05-30 17:01:07 <luke-jr> and always addnode=eligius to make sure it works ;)
1917 2011-05-30 17:01:13 <BlueMatt> yea...well Id rather see that done fully and clearly explained in 0.4.0 rather than a build which users are likely to use w/o understanding it
1918 2011-05-30 17:01:25 <luke-jr> they don't have to understand it
1919 2011-05-30 17:01:59 <Incitatus> tcatm: great will you be online tomorrow or available a lot in the near future
1920 2011-05-30 17:02:15 <Incitatus> tcatm: because genjix is sleeping now, but I can wake him up
1921 2011-05-30 17:02:45 <BlueMatt> tcatm: god its been a while since you have been on...
1922 2011-05-30 17:03:07 <BlueMatt> though I hear you've given up deving for bitcoin-mainline to go to the consultancy thing
1923 2011-05-30 17:03:20 <tcatm> Incitatus: I can try, but I'm very busy recently. It's best if you write emails. I'll usually answer them within 12hr.
1924 2011-05-30 17:03:36 <Incitatus> ah ok can you privately message me the address
1925 2011-05-30 17:04:46 npouillard has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1926 2011-05-30 17:05:38 Diablo-D3 has joined
1927 2011-05-30 17:05:57 <tcatm> BlueMatt: I just had a great opportunity for a vacation a few weeks ago, booked a train ticket suddently disappeared from IRC :)
1928 2011-05-30 17:07:07 <UukGoblin> ah, also: is there a way to tell bitcoin to include a low priority transaction in a block when it generates one (by specifying the tx id for instance)?
1929 2011-05-30 17:07:54 Teslah has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1930 2011-05-30 17:08:18 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: no, you'd have to patch it yourself
1931 2011-05-30 17:08:36 <jaromil> 12hr email latency is pretty good man. i'm at approx 1w these days
1932 2011-05-30 17:08:39 <UukGoblin> yeah I need to submit a few patches some time ;-]
1933 2011-05-30 17:08:51 <jaromil> 1w to *read* he
1934 2011-05-30 17:08:52 <UukGoblin> I'm getting there, I've just been... busy ;-P
1935 2011-05-30 17:10:04 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: no, yea that would not be accepted to mainline, though I can see it being very useful for some specific miners who work by getting money to include the txes of customers
1936 2011-05-30 17:10:23 <BlueMatt> but I dont like seeing people do that manually...its kind of cruft to the client
1937 2011-05-30 17:10:35 <BlueMatt> otoh, its not like any avg users will ever be able to use it
1938 2011-05-30 17:10:55 <BlueMatt> though some idiots might start using it maliciously to spam...
1939 2011-05-30 17:11:02 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1940 2011-05-30 17:11:06 <BlueMatt> anyway, that would have to be well backed-up to get included
1941 2011-05-30 17:11:13 <BlueMatt> I could see an argument about that...
1942 2011-05-30 17:11:50 kermit has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1943 2011-05-30 17:12:09 kika_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1944 2011-05-30 17:12:23 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, I've got some other stuff to patch too
1945 2011-05-30 17:12:37 manifold has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1946 2011-05-30 17:12:37 <UukGoblin> (i.e. allowing 0-amount outputs in sendmany)
1947 2011-05-30 17:12:46 <UukGoblin> btw, sendmany and listaccounts is bloody broken in .21
1948 2011-05-30 17:13:12 <BlueMatt> wtf would you want 0-amount txouts, thats just a spam tool
1949 2011-05-30 17:13:22 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: broken how?
1950 2011-05-30 17:14:30 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, for the timestamping service and maybe bitdns in future
1951 2011-05-30 17:14:39 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, from my perspective it's a tx fee generator
1952 2011-05-30 17:14:50 <BlueMatt> those arent to be included in mainline, only fringe clients
1953 2011-05-30 17:14:59 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, basically, I've created two accounts named 'test1'
1954 2011-05-30 17:15:10 cornfeed has joined
1955 2011-05-30 17:15:21 <UukGoblin> I don't see a reason to drop useful functionality from the mainline... gavin+others might though, sure
1956 2011-05-30 17:15:24 <cornfeed> !seen jgarzik
1957 2011-05-30 17:15:44 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, and with these 2 accounts, I've sent some money to them, then sent it back (cleared the account)
1958 2011-05-30 17:15:51 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, then a generation happened
1959 2011-05-30 17:16:11 <BlueMatt> ;;seen jgarzik
1960 2011-05-30 17:16:11 <gribble> jgarzik was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 15 hours, 54 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <jgarzik> The author is probably someone who constantly searches for the 'any' key on his keyboard.
1961 2011-05-30 17:16:19 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, and listaccounts was showing the "" (generation account) to have about 48.34 btc, and "test1" to have the remaining 1.68
1962 2011-05-30 17:16:23 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: no, there is a ton of reason to not allow 0-output txouts
1963 2011-05-30 17:16:33 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, it's /already/ being allowed
1964 2011-05-30 17:16:34 <BlueMatt> in fact, those should be banned from blocks period
1965 2011-05-30 17:16:45 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, no they definitely shouldn't, banning them would be very bad
1966 2011-05-30 17:16:47 <BlueMatt> are they allowed in the default miner?
1967 2011-05-30 17:16:52 <UukGoblin> yes they are
1968 2011-05-30 17:16:57 <BlueMatt> well that is a bug
1969 2011-05-30 17:17:04 <UukGoblin> no it's not... we've been over this...
1970 2011-05-30 17:17:17 <BlueMatt> what reason do you have for using them, other than stuff which shouldnt be in the chain to begin with?
1971 2011-05-30 17:17:29 gjs278 has joined
1972 2011-05-30 17:17:51 <BlueMatt> bitdns and whatnot is cool, but that is not the purpose of bitcoin and is spam, the secondary chain stuff is cool and can be used very well for this
1973 2011-05-30 17:18:00 <BlueMatt> no need to spam up the main chain with that crap
1974 2011-05-30 17:18:00 <UukGoblin> well
1975 2011-05-30 17:18:10 <UukGoblin> if you don't allow 0-amount outputs then you're asking for unprunable spam
1976 2011-05-30 17:18:21 <UukGoblin> people will have to use coin burning then
1977 2011-05-30 17:18:28 <UukGoblin> and create loads of small unprunable transactions
1978 2011-05-30 17:18:53 <BlueMatt> to do what? store messages in the blockchain?
1979 2011-05-30 17:18:57 <UukGoblin> if you do allow 0-amount though, they will instead be able to pay a fee to the miner, making the miners happy, as well as have their transactions prunable resulting in smaller chain
1980 2011-05-30 17:18:59 <BlueMatt> why would you do that to begin with?
1981 2011-05-30 17:19:16 <jaromil> ahah interesting point. true. there will *always* be spam :D
1982 2011-05-30 17:19:43 eternal1 has joined
1983 2011-05-30 17:19:49 kermit has joined
1984 2011-05-30 17:19:56 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1985 2011-05-30 17:20:03 <BlueMatt> no, I agree, but why explicitly allow what shouldn't be there to begin with?
1986 2011-05-30 17:20:24 <UukGoblin> in order to remove incentive for doing something worse?
1987 2011-05-30 17:20:30 <BlueMatt> whoever created codeproject.com needs to be shot in the face
1988 2011-05-30 17:20:38 int0x27h has joined
1989 2011-05-30 17:21:15 ezl has joined
1990 2011-05-30 17:21:24 <gwillen> BlueMatt: if zero-output txns are allowed in blocks right now, changing the client to ban them is dangerous
1991 2011-05-30 17:21:38 <gwillen> because any change that causes clients to disagree about block validity is dangerous
1992 2011-05-30 17:21:49 <BlueMatt> well, no, obviously that cant be done, but they shouldnt be included in default miners
1993 2011-05-30 17:21:50 lulzplzkthx has quit (Quit: leaving)
1994 2011-05-30 17:21:53 <gwillen> *nods*
1995 2011-05-30 17:21:59 lulzplzkthx has joined
1996 2011-05-30 17:21:59 lulzplzkthx has quit (Changing host)
1997 2011-05-30 17:21:59 lulzplzkthx has joined
1998 2011-05-30 17:22:23 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: are you sure 0-value txouts are included by default by miners right now?
1999 2011-05-30 17:22:37 <BlueMatt> I know they are valid if in a block, but are they accepted to mempool right now?
2000 2011-05-30 17:22:45 <BlueMatt> (they really shouldnt be)
2001 2011-05-30 17:22:57 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, I'm not sure
2002 2011-05-30 17:23:04 <UukGoblin> I know they're allowed if they get into the blockchain
2003 2011-05-30 17:23:09 <UukGoblin> but unsure about mempool
2004 2011-05-30 17:23:16 <BlueMatt> anything is allowed if it gets into the chain
2005 2011-05-30 17:23:27 <BlueMatt> but Im pretty sure 0-txouts are rejected from mempool right now
2006 2011-05-30 17:23:32 <UukGoblin> there was a tx somewhere that had a few 0-output addresses
2007 2011-05-30 17:23:41 <soap> 0 amount and 0 fee transactions will always be allowed?
2008 2011-05-30 17:23:48 <UukGoblin> no
2009 2011-05-30 17:23:51 <UukGoblin> 0 amount and small fee
2010 2011-05-30 17:23:58 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: doesnt mean they are accepted to mempool, by any means
2011 2011-05-30 17:23:59 BitVector has quit (Quit: .)
2012 2011-05-30 17:24:07 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, I'm not sure
2013 2011-05-30 17:24:12 <soap> what about small amount, young coin, 0 fee?
2014 2011-05-30 17:24:16 <UukGoblin> but me as a miner would definitely want them accepted
2015 2011-05-30 17:24:20 <UukGoblin> if I drop them, it costs me money
2016 2011-05-30 17:24:29 <UukGoblin> soap, that should be rejected
2017 2011-05-30 17:24:41 <soap> by all clients?
2018 2011-05-30 17:25:13 <soap> so there will be a point where 0 fee transactions transparently get dropped or only 0 fee transactions with young coins?
2019 2011-05-30 17:25:21 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: they shouldnt be relayed so that miners dont get to accept them ;)
2020 2011-05-30 17:25:46 <BlueMatt> soap: that is a very long discussion...see the whole "downward fee spiral debate"
2021 2011-05-30 17:26:49 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, anyway this is a political issue rather than a technical one
2022 2011-05-30 17:27:03 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, enforcing that or another behaviour in the code is wrong - it should be left to the users
2023 2011-05-30 17:27:21 <soap> what I'm getting at, BlueMatt, and I don't think the question needs the whole debate rehased, is are we talking a segmentation of the network? Different nodes with different rules and differing expectations of what they should receive in order to perpetuate the transaction?
2024 2011-05-30 17:27:29 <BlueMatt> yes, but 99% of users dont care, and we shouldnt be wateing their bw and storage
2025 2011-05-30 17:27:35 <BlueMatt> wasting*
2026 2011-05-30 17:27:48 TD has joined
2027 2011-05-30 17:28:00 <UukGoblin> it's not about 99% of users, it's about miners
2028 2011-05-30 17:28:06 <BlueMatt> soap: not sure what you mean there?
2029 2011-05-30 17:28:13 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: what?
2030 2011-05-30 17:28:22 <BlueMatt> no the users pay the costs as well, not just miners
2031 2011-05-30 17:28:26 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, well relaying is about users ok
2032 2011-05-30 17:28:53 <BlueMatt> we can finish this later...dinner
2033 2011-05-30 17:29:00 <cornfeed> it appears that this is the dev channel but you are talking about the test chain and more indepth problems so i am not sure if this is the best place to ask, but i already asked in #gentoo and i dont want to ask in #bitcoin...i am trying to compile jgarzik's pushpool and am running in to an odd notice....undefined reference to `mysql_stmt_close'
2034 2011-05-30 17:29:39 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, well if you don't relay 0-output transactions, you make it cost in reducing the amount of bitcoins available... which eventually might lead to losing them all
2035 2011-05-30 17:29:50 <UukGoblin> (unlikely and very far future of course)
2036 2011-05-30 17:30:41 <soap> UukGoblin, are you using "you" in the singular or plural?
2037 2011-05-30 17:30:42 sethsethseth____ has joined
2038 2011-05-30 17:30:43 <cornfeed> i know what the functions is, but not why it cant find mysql with mysql_config
2039 2011-05-30 17:30:50 <gwillen> cornfeed: if that's the _only_ error you're getting, sounds likely to be a wrong version of the mysql libraries
2040 2011-05-30 17:30:54 <UukGoblin> soap, plural
2041 2011-05-30 17:31:05 <gwillen> cornfeed: I've never tried to build pushpool, so I couldn't tell you what version it would want
2042 2011-05-30 17:31:06 <cornfeed> gwillen: ok thank you
2043 2011-05-30 17:31:14 <gwillen> np
2044 2011-05-30 17:31:34 sethsethseth___ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2045 2011-05-30 17:32:37 <soap> UukGoblin, what prevents a "selfish" network member from refusing to relay 0-output transactions and relying on the self-interest of others to do so?
2046 2011-05-30 17:32:46 <soap> (and what are the consequences)
2047 2011-05-30 17:32:49 dx398 has joined
2048 2011-05-30 17:32:54 <UukGoblin> soap, nothing
2049 2011-05-30 17:33:08 <UukGoblin> a selfish network member can basically deny relaying /any/ transactions
2050 2011-05-30 17:33:14 <UukGoblin> (unless they go to him for instance)
2051 2011-05-30 17:33:38 <soap> and is there a potential profit in picking and choosing?
2052 2011-05-30 17:33:55 <UukGoblin> saving bandwidth
2053 2011-05-30 17:33:57 <soap> I guess I ask because I don't grok where the transaction fee ends up.
2054 2011-05-30 17:34:01 <UukGoblin> and cpu perhaps
2055 2011-05-30 17:34:28 <UukGoblin> transaction fee goes to the guy who finds a block that includes the transaction first
2056 2011-05-30 17:34:38 <iz> soap: it ends up rewarded to the miner that solves the block containing those transactions
2057 2011-05-30 17:35:13 <soap> how many transactions in a block?
2058 2011-05-30 17:35:28 <soap> should I go to #bitcoin and spare the -dev channel?
2059 2011-05-30 17:36:25 agricocb1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2060 2011-05-30 17:36:59 <gwillen> soap: I think it's 2016? (And I'm honestly not sure which channel is best.)
2061 2011-05-30 17:37:04 <gwillen> oh sorry
2062 2011-05-30 17:37:05 <UukGoblin> wtf... bitcoin 0.3.19 just created a transaction with a massive fee without my permission...
2063 2011-05-30 17:37:07 <gwillen> I am thinking of a different number
2064 2011-05-30 17:37:12 <gwillen> the number of txns in a block depends on their sizes
2065 2011-05-30 17:37:32 <gwillen> there is a limitation on how many KB will go into a block for free, and another (1 MB) limitation on total block size
2066 2011-05-30 17:38:20 <UukGoblin> I thought it was only allowed to create transactions with fees if you use -paytxfee...
2067 2011-05-30 17:38:42 <gwillen> UukGoblin: how much is "massive"?
2068 2011-05-30 17:38:44 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2069 2011-05-30 17:38:56 <yebyen> ;;bc,calc 5000000
2070 2011-05-30 17:38:57 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 4 days, 7 hours, 46 minutes, and 1 second
2071 2011-05-30 17:38:59 <Namegduf> UukGoblin: So what was your view on the fee reduction again? :P
2072 2011-05-30 17:39:05 <UukGoblin> gwillen, 0.38 btc
2073 2011-05-30 17:39:07 <yebyen> ;;bc,calc 5000
2074 2011-05-30 17:39:07 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 11 years, 44 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 3 minutes, and 33 seconds
2075 2011-05-30 17:39:15 <gwillen> UukGoblin: huh, crazy
2076 2011-05-30 17:39:17 <Namegduf> And no, transactions get fees automatically where necessary
2077 2011-05-30 17:39:27 <Namegduf> 0.01 BTC fees basically forbid microtransactions.
2078 2011-05-30 17:39:29 <UukGoblin> Namegduf, that's... wrong...
2079 2011-05-30 17:39:30 <gwillen> Namegduf: 0.38 as a fee sounds like a serous bug
2080 2011-05-30 17:39:38 newmont has quit (Quit: newmont)
2081 2011-05-30 17:39:41 <UukGoblin> gwillen, no, it was a 9k btc transaction with loads of inputs
2082 2011-05-30 17:39:43 <Namegduf> Okay, yeah, that does.
2083 2011-05-30 17:39:48 <UukGoblin> gwillen, it's about right
2084 2011-05-30 17:39:50 <Namegduf> Ah, that explains it.
2085 2011-05-30 17:39:51 <gwillen> UukGoblin: ahhhh
2086 2011-05-30 17:39:52 <UukGoblin> but I'd rather be asked first...
2087 2011-05-30 17:39:53 <gwillen> *nods*
2088 2011-05-30 17:40:08 <UukGoblin> I thought the gui asked... why doesn't bitcoind? :-S
2089 2011-05-30 17:40:22 <Namegduf> How can a daemon ask a user questions
2090 2011-05-30 17:40:29 <Namegduf> It has no attached I/O mechanisms
2091 2011-05-30 17:40:40 <cornfeed> what pool software is the most popular right now?
2092 2011-05-30 17:40:40 <Namegduf> Well, none that lead to a user.
2093 2011-05-30 17:40:46 <UukGoblin> Namegduf, {"error":"transaction fee required","code":666,"data":0.38} ?
2094 2011-05-30 17:41:14 Vandroiy has left ()
2095 2011-05-30 17:41:14 <Namegduf> It could require the sending client authorise it, I guess.
2096 2011-05-30 17:41:25 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
2097 2011-05-30 17:42:16 <UukGoblin> I'd rather wait 2 weeks to transfer that amount than pay 0.38 in fees...
2098 2011-05-30 17:42:29 <UukGoblin> there is some serious patching I need to do :-P
2099 2011-05-30 17:43:19 <Namegduf> UukGoblin: You could just upgrade
2100 2011-05-30 17:43:28 <Namegduf> And accept less crazy fees. :P
2101 2011-05-30 17:43:34 <Namegduf> When it's released, anyway.
2102 2011-05-30 17:44:19 <pwrcycle> i have my pool.cloakvpn.com:8332 setup if anyone wants to test it. i'll have to setup the accounts manually at first
2103 2011-05-30 17:44:35 Netsniper has joined
2104 2011-05-30 17:44:50 <UukGoblin> Namegduf, I could, but I /disagree/ with it
2105 2011-05-30 17:44:54 <UukGoblin> Namegduf, ergo, I need to take action
2106 2011-05-30 17:45:35 d4de_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2107 2011-05-30 17:46:37 gsathya has joined
2108 2011-05-30 17:49:25 <UukGoblin> so is there a safe way of sending money from the rpc at all?
2109 2011-05-30 17:49:38 <UukGoblin> if not, that's a serious bug imho
2110 2011-05-30 17:49:47 <UukGoblin> I was under the impression there was
2111 2011-05-30 17:51:06 <devn> You can tell by the way I walk, I'm a woman's man -- no time to talk.
2112 2011-05-30 17:51:15 Akiron has quit (Quit: Akiron)
2113 2011-05-30 17:51:21 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, define safe
2114 2011-05-30 17:51:52 lumos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2115 2011-05-30 17:52:05 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, one that doesn't magically spend your money on tx fees
2116 2011-05-30 17:52:15 <phantomcircuit> no i dont think that's possible
2117 2011-05-30 17:52:25 prax has joined
2118 2011-05-30 17:52:28 <UukGoblin> how on earth did it survive that long without being fixed...
2119 2011-05-30 17:52:57 <UukGoblin> also, to annoy me, my git refuses to co-operate :-S error: SSL certificate problem, verify that the CA cert is OK. Details:
2120 2011-05-30 17:53:00 <UukGoblin> error:14090086:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed while accessing https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git.git/info/refs
2121 2011-05-30 17:53:25 <phantomcircuit> eh why you pulling from there?
2122 2011-05-30 17:53:59 <diki> Say what do you guys usually eat?
2123 2011-05-30 17:54:02 npouillard has joined
2124 2011-05-30 17:54:06 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,stats
2125 2011-05-30 17:54:08 <gribble> Current Blocks: 127671 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 1352 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour, 2 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 508780.66085804
2126 2011-05-30 17:54:09 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, google got me there...
2127 2011-05-30 17:54:22 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
2128 2011-05-30 17:54:24 prax_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2129 2011-05-30 17:54:26 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, thanks
2130 2011-05-30 17:54:30 <phantomcircuit> diki, LITTLE CHILDREN
2131 2011-05-30 17:54:48 <diki> lol
2132 2011-05-30 17:54:51 <phantomcircuit> UukGoblin, also you're probably missing the godaddy ssl cert that github uses
2133 2011-05-30 17:55:04 <diki> i usually eat french fires,bread(but of course) and cheese
2134 2011-05-30 17:58:21 Astriks has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2135 2011-05-30 18:02:00 zq has joined
2136 2011-05-30 18:06:35 <UukGoblin> ok so am I right thinking CTransaction::CheckTransaction checks if a transaction is valid in a block (in a block chain), and CTransaction::AcceptToMemoryPool says whether it'll be relayed and accepted in generations?
2137 2011-05-30 18:09:25 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2138 2011-05-30 18:13:40 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2139 2011-05-30 18:13:51 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
2140 2011-05-30 18:14:13 TD has joined
2141 2011-05-30 18:14:23 <[Tycho]> Who is the owner of bitcoinwatch ?
2142 2011-05-30 18:16:06 <BlueMatt> tcatm? no...not sure
2143 2011-05-30 18:16:12 Newbee has joined
2144 2011-05-30 18:16:47 ArtForzZz has joined
2145 2011-05-30 18:18:48 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, ok after a brief glance it looks like 0-outputs should get accepted to mempool... CTransaction::CheckTransaction() only makes sure it's not < 0 or > MAX_MONEY... CTransaction::AcceptToMemoryPool doesn't seem to be doing much checks for that, but I might be missing something
2146 2011-05-30 18:19:13 <diki> tbh i really wish to punch the person behind the ddos-es
2147 2011-05-30 18:19:17 Phoebus has joined
2148 2011-05-30 18:19:21 <diki> for my personal gain of course
2149 2011-05-30 18:19:35 <UukGoblin> also, in latest git version, isStandard is only checked when you're NOT on testnet... which makes testing for this stuff on testnet hard ;-P
2150 2011-05-30 18:19:50 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: I agree, it looks like they are currently accepted...which is a bug
2151 2011-05-30 18:19:51 datagutt has joined
2152 2011-05-30 18:19:55 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2153 2011-05-30 18:19:57 <diki> Then i migh rape him, and then use him as a man-slave
2154 2011-05-30 18:20:05 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, I disagree about it being a bug
2155 2011-05-30 18:20:09 Teslah has joined
2156 2011-05-30 18:20:27 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, much bigger bug is automatically paying tx fees from sendtoaddress
2157 2011-05-30 18:20:46 <BlueMatt> IsStandard only checks that txout has a standard script, afaict as long as you have a std script you can still have 0-out
2158 2011-05-30 18:21:13 <BlueMatt> but no OP_DROP or 0-out with no script
2159 2011-05-30 18:21:16 datagutt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2160 2011-05-30 18:21:47 <UukGoblin> it also does this MoneyRange() check in few places... which says >= 0
2161 2011-05-30 18:22:02 <BlueMatt> should be >
2162 2011-05-30 18:22:07 <UukGoblin> nope, shouldn't
2163 2011-05-30 18:22:17 intelliot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2164 2011-05-30 18:22:27 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, :
2165 2011-05-30 18:22:28 <UukGoblin> 151007> gavinandresen< I agree with UukGoblin: ban 0-value-txouts and people will just find another sneaky way of shoving in data.
2166 2011-05-30 18:22:37 pnicholson has joined
2167 2011-05-30 18:22:44 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, that log is from May 05 2011
2168 2011-05-30 18:22:54 <BlueMatt> and I disagree with gavin
2169 2011-05-30 18:23:02 <BlueMatt> I agree with what he said, but not with you
2170 2011-05-30 18:23:13 <diki> How can i simulate finding a block X seconds after the previous one?
2171 2011-05-30 18:23:15 dissipate has joined
2172 2011-05-30 18:23:29 <BlueMatt> people will find a sneaky way to put their data in, but that doesnt mean we should allow it...
2173 2011-05-30 18:23:36 <edcba> diki: simulates for ?
2174 2011-05-30 18:23:47 <BlueMatt> in any case, total txin == 0 should be banned, that we can agree on?
2175 2011-05-30 18:24:04 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, also:
2176 2011-05-30 18:24:05 <UukGoblin> 151327> gavinandresen< Yeah, what UukGoblin said. You can certainly prune them, they're all spent.
2177 2011-05-30 18:24:07 <diki> edcba:my pool stores shares with a bit delay from when a block is found
2178 2011-05-30 18:24:18 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: so, they still have to pay to be relayed
2179 2011-05-30 18:24:26 <BlueMatt> I mean clients pay with bw
2180 2011-05-30 18:24:33 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, if we allow the PROPER way to sneak data in, they'll have less reasons to try to sneak them in IMPROPER ways
2181 2011-05-30 18:24:35 <diki> meaning that if a block is found withing that delay after the previous block is found, my script will get b0rked
2182 2011-05-30 18:24:56 <BlueMatt> now that I know gavin disagrees with (turning off IsStandard)
2183 2011-05-30 18:25:28 Teslah has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2184 2011-05-30 18:26:01 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, just means people with the ability to directly connect tieh large pool miners have an advantage
2185 2011-05-30 18:26:02 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, well bandwidth cost is the same regardless of method used. With 0-value-txouts however, blockchain storage cost is lower, so it SHOULD be allowed, imho.
2186 2011-05-30 18:26:36 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: hence we should disable sending data in the chain ;)
2187 2011-05-30 18:27:12 <diki> tbh i think you guys are putting in features YOU want, and didnt even ask the community squat if they agree with the changes
2188 2011-05-30 18:27:24 <UukGoblin> what? the chain is there so that data CAN be sent :-] it's the core of bitcoin
2189 2011-05-30 18:27:31 <UukGoblin> you can't disable sending data in the chain
2190 2011-05-30 18:27:47 <BlueMatt> though I do have to say I have changed my mind from earlier...I suppose we should allow 0-value txouts, however I competely disagree with changing the current system away from IsStandard...
2191 2011-05-30 18:28:09 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, why?
2192 2011-05-30 18:28:16 has joined
2193 2011-05-30 18:28:17 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: why would we?
2194 2011-05-30 18:28:28 <UukGoblin> what's this IsStandard thing about?
2195 2011-05-30 18:28:30 <diki> there you go again. I have no idea what these 0-value txouts are, but did you ask the community for permission to change whatnot ?
2196 2011-05-30 18:28:30 <BlueMatt> though IMHO we should force fee on 0-value txouts
2197 2011-05-30 18:28:38 <phantomcircuit> enable escrow in the block chain and othe neat stuff
2198 2011-05-30 18:28:40 <UukGoblin> as long as you can shove in ~100 bytes + OP_DROP, I'm happy
2199 2011-05-30 18:28:42 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-240-204-70.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Guest67569
2200 2011-05-30 18:28:50 fiber has joined
2201 2011-05-30 18:29:02 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, definitely agree, 0-value txouts definitely should be charged with a fee.
2202 2011-05-30 18:29:23 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, ah, neat stuff is always neat, yeah
2203 2011-05-30 18:29:24 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: no, OP_DROP shouldnt be allowed unless you have a large fee imo
2204 2011-05-30 18:29:46 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, that really should be up to the miners
2205 2011-05-30 18:29:47 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, OP_DROP should be allowed because it's less CPU-costly than OP_CHECKSIG...
2206 2011-05-30 18:29:48 <tcatm> [Tycho]: I run bitcoinwatch
2207 2011-05-30 18:29:57 <fiber> Hi, I'm having a bit of a problem... I'm running bitcoind on one computer with -server and rpc set correctly (user, password, allowed IP's), however when trying to poll the server from another network computer I get "could not connect to server"... does anyone have some tips?
2208 2011-05-30 18:30:02 <BlueMatt> escrow is cool, yes but that can be added to IsStandard...
2209 2011-05-30 18:30:32 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yet again, no...miners dont pay for bw across the net nor do they care if people waste 20g on everyon'e hdd
2210 2011-05-30 18:30:33 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, so what the mainline devs dictate what is cool and what is not for the rest of eternity? that seems like a bad plan
2211 2011-05-30 18:30:52 HarryS has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2212 2011-05-30 18:30:53 <diki> i feel ignored
2213 2011-05-30 18:30:54 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: but OP_CHECKSIG only gets used if the tx gets spent which it cant if its data
2214 2011-05-30 18:30:58 * jaromil smells trouble
2215 2011-05-30 18:31:10 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2216 2011-05-30 18:31:20 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, ah well fair enough... then OP_DROP is just neater
2217 2011-05-30 18:31:23 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: no, by all means you currently *can* do whatever you want in the chain
2218 2011-05-30 18:31:32 <UukGoblin> you can /indicate/ that it's data
2219 2011-05-30 18:31:40 <BlueMatt> luke's pool will take your shit txes
2220 2011-05-30 18:32:21 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: but its data either way, which should be disallowed
2221 2011-05-30 18:32:25 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2222 2011-05-30 18:32:46 HarryS has joined
2223 2011-05-30 18:32:49 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, yes but who decides that it should be disallowed?
2224 2011-05-30 18:32:57 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, it CAN'T be disallowed. Also, a lot of users want an ability to attach a message or reference to a transaction. 0-value-txout would allow for that easily.
2225 2011-05-30 18:33:11 <BlueMatt> 0-txout seems like an ok way to pull it off as it can be pruned, and yes I know it cant be disallowed
2226 2011-05-30 18:33:23 <UukGoblin> phantomcircuit, imho, it should ultimately be up to miners. It's them that support the network.
2227 2011-05-30 18:33:58 <BlueMatt> a message to a tx works fine if you change ISStandard to allow basic messages given enough value, but for a tx which transfers only 1 BTC, we shouldnt waste everyone's disk...
2228 2011-05-30 18:34:14 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: ITS UP TO THE MINERS ALREADY, so stop asking
2229 2011-05-30 18:34:28 <diki> So have you guys asked for permission in changing what you are discussing now?
2230 2011-05-30 18:34:40 <BlueMatt> diki: we currently arent discussing a change
2231 2011-05-30 18:34:47 <diki> sure looks like that to me
2232 2011-05-30 18:34:50 <diki> and it looked one-sided
2233 2011-05-30 18:35:08 <UukGoblin> diki, I'm only arguing for /leaving/ what's there
2234 2011-05-30 18:35:31 <UukGoblin> diki, and adding features that'll help users and won't impact the network in any bad way any more than what's already there
2235 2011-05-30 18:35:42 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: Im ok with leaving whats here already, though I would like to see more checks in IsStandard to check that a tx whith 0-value txout has a pretty big fee
2236 2011-05-30 18:35:46 <diki> Are you sure?
2237 2011-05-30 18:35:50 <UukGoblin> diki, not having a function in the main client doesn't mean you can't have it anyway
2238 2011-05-30 18:36:24 <diki> Believe it or not, it's you guys who are going to change the future of bitcoin
2239 2011-05-30 18:36:30 <BlueMatt> diki: I post polls on the forum all the time, and the results and people who vote tend to clearly have no idea what they are talking about, hence why I dont bother anymore
2240 2011-05-30 18:36:36 <diki> it all depends on you, if you guys make a wrong move, you ultimately destroy bitcoin
2241 2011-05-30 18:36:41 <TD> it's trivial to disallow messages in transactions
2242 2011-05-30 18:36:44 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, imho, size of fees is entirely a different matter... And I dislike it just being moved from 0.01 to 0.0005 or whatever. It should be a configurable thing that every miner can easily define.
2243 2011-05-30 18:36:50 <BlueMatt> diki: thats why this chan is public and anyone who knows enough can come join and talk here
2244 2011-05-30 18:37:01 <UukGoblin> diki, we're not even bitcoin devs
2245 2011-05-30 18:37:05 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: it is...
2246 2011-05-30 18:37:10 <diki> but you handle bitcoin's code
2247 2011-05-30 18:37:22 <diki> hence you guys most of the time have everything done your way
2248 2011-05-30 18:37:49 <BlueMatt> TD: true, but there is a point where the amount of work needed to fully disallow them isnt worth doing and could cause side effects elsewhere, especially for small messages
2249 2011-05-30 18:37:52 <UukGoblin> diki, hey, I'm arguing for configurability here. I'm trying to get that stuff left to the user
2250 2011-05-30 18:38:33 <TD> well, if there's stuff encoded into transactions that isn't encrypted, it's easy to detect and drop them. if it is encrypted you need a key exchange, which means you're exchanging messages outside of the network already. at that point you may as well just send the message directly.
2251 2011-05-30 18:38:40 <UukGoblin> TD, it's trivial yes, but not desirable
2252 2011-05-30 18:38:44 <BlueMatt> diki: please, stop...if the community at-large clearly knew what each decision meant, we would...but why do you think democracy exists? also, we are leaving it up to the community...they can come here and discuss with us
2253 2011-05-30 18:38:55 blueadept has joined
2254 2011-05-30 18:39:27 <BlueMatt> TD: to an extent...but, say, some un-keyed encrypted data still looks random too
2255 2011-05-30 18:39:44 <BlueMatt> and we cant go checking txes for 20 000 unkeyed crypto algos...
2256 2011-05-30 18:40:06 <UukGoblin> and we don't have/want to
2257 2011-05-30 18:40:07 <UukGoblin> srsly
2258 2011-05-30 18:40:14 <BlueMatt> yes, we do
2259 2011-05-30 18:40:19 <UukGoblin> what for?
2260 2011-05-30 18:40:32 <BlueMatt> god...to save bw, disk space, processing power........
2261 2011-05-30 18:40:52 <UukGoblin> it doesn't save any of these, and wastes more disk space and processing power.
2262 2011-05-30 18:41:20 <UukGoblin> bw you could argue... but because there are other ways of achieving it, you'll never be able to permanently save it
2263 2011-05-30 18:41:57 <UukGoblin> (by "save" I mean prevent from being wasted)
2264 2011-05-30 18:42:59 <BlueMatt> give me one good reason why we need to allow random data in the chain seriously. Maybe useful for txes with value, think memo field, but for microtxes its a complete waste
2265 2011-05-30 18:43:04 <UukGoblin> that's my whole argument in a nutshell: prunable message is much better than a non-prunable one
2266 2011-05-30 18:43:17 <BlueMatt> I would gladly argue for them, but currently there is no good one
2267 2011-05-30 18:43:36 necrodearia has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2268 2011-05-30 18:43:36 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, timestamping, dns, loads of other possible applications
2269 2011-05-30 18:43:58 <BlueMatt> not good reasons, generalizing bitcoin is by no means a good reason
2270 2011-05-30 18:44:10 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, also, no reason is required to 'allow random data in the chain'. It's already allowed.
2271 2011-05-30 18:44:28 <UukGoblin> imho splitting the work among many chains is a very bad approach
2272 2011-05-30 18:44:36 <UukGoblin> especially given that one chain can do it all.
2273 2011-05-30 18:44:39 <BlueMatt> give me one good reason which is useful for a financial system
2274 2011-05-30 18:45:04 <BlueMatt> and I understand we allow data in the chain, but there is a *huge* difference between allowing it and encouraging it, as you suggest
2275 2011-05-30 18:45:05 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, avoiding currency burning, and increasing the incentive to mine
2276 2011-05-30 18:45:39 <BlueMatt> currently if you store data in the chain, you dont burn currency
2277 2011-05-30 18:46:08 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, the approach proposed here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=2358.0 does.
2278 2011-05-30 18:46:22 <BlueMatt> though I like the idea of AcceptToMemoryPool requiring a large fee to relay 0-value txouts
2279 2011-05-30 18:47:05 <UukGoblin> so, you got 2 good reasons of mine, will you change your mind now? or can you disprove these reasons?
2280 2011-05-30 18:47:10 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: what does that have to do with this?
2281 2011-05-30 18:47:28 <UukGoblin> define 'that' and 'this' plz, I'm kinda lost
2282 2011-05-30 18:48:01 <BlueMatt> and Ive, well you've, disproven the first, and I agree with the second though its not a direct argument for removing IsStandard
2283 2011-05-30 18:48:11 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: I mean that forum post has nothing to do with this discussion
2284 2011-05-30 18:48:32 <gmaxwell> "incentive to mine" is not a good reason for random data in the blockchain. _everyone_ has costs from that, not just people doing mining.
2285 2011-05-30 18:48:57 davex_r has joined
2286 2011-05-30 18:49:27 <gmaxwell> (of course, I think a couple of extra hashes to tie in others blockchain is fine⦠because that scales really well)
2287 2011-05-30 18:49:37 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, this forum post shows how to implement timestamping using bitcoin chain and coin burning
2288 2011-05-30 18:49:39 <davex_r> is there a way through RPC to list all generates with under 120 confirmations?
2289 2011-05-30 18:49:52 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, everyone except the miners. Miners get the fees.
2290 2011-05-30 18:50:20 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: and why do we need to allow timestamping in the chain?
2291 2011-05-30 18:50:26 bitcoiner has joined
2292 2011-05-30 18:50:48 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, because disallowing it would break bitcoin as a whole? Or in other words, is impossible.
2293 2011-05-30 18:50:54 <dinox> davex_r: bitcoind listtransactions "" 1000 | grep immature
2294 2011-05-30 18:51:05 <dinox> if youre on linux/mac
2295 2011-05-30 18:51:09 <gmaxwell> Allowing non-bitcoin things in the chain will also miss the change to support alternative chains which scale better for them.
2296 2011-05-30 18:51:09 <davex_r> ok
2297 2011-05-30 18:51:39 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, ok, a different answer: we want to allow it as 0-value-txouts because it's a better way of doing it than burning coins.
2298 2011-05-30 18:51:40 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: there are various grades of "allowing".
2299 2011-05-30 18:51:44 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: god damn it, Im done with this...you have yet to give a good reason why the system should be changed to directly encourage random data in the chain
2300 2011-05-30 18:51:52 vigilyn2 has joined
2301 2011-05-30 18:52:02 <BlueMatt> WE ALREADY ALLOW 0-value-txouts
2302 2011-05-30 18:52:11 <BlueMatt> and as I said earlier, I have changed my mind on that
2303 2011-05-30 18:52:18 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, to give miners extra money from fees is a bad reason? to prevent coin burning is a bad reason?
2304 2011-05-30 18:52:32 <BlueMatt> you convinced me of that much, but you have yet to give a reason to change the current system
2305 2011-05-30 18:52:36 mattsemar has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2306 2011-05-30 18:52:41 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, I don't think there's any need for alternative chains
2307 2011-05-30 18:52:44 <BlueMatt> YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT MUCH
2308 2011-05-30 18:52:51 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: â¦!
2309 2011-05-30 18:52:55 <BlueMatt> those are arguments for the current system, not to change it
2310 2011-05-30 18:52:59 <dinox> Hmm, how hard would it be to change block creation time from 10 min to 1 min in code without breaking the block chain?
2311 2011-05-30 18:53:08 <diki> just one thing i'd like to know!
2312 2011-05-30 18:53:15 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, I don't want anything changed, apart from perhaps the client to make this feature easily usable from the rpc...
2313 2011-05-30 18:53:31 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: thats screwed up. Without an alternative chain every bit of data anyone wants to attach to the bitcoin difficulty ends up burdening _lots_ of users.
2314 2011-05-30 18:53:33 <diki> If a block is generated 4 seconds after another block, will the previous block be down to 1 less confirm needed?
2315 2011-05-30 18:53:39 <BlueMatt> ok then why are you arguing here, as I said long ago, you convinced me that the system should not be changed
2316 2011-05-30 18:53:43 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, the only thing I want to change is to have it available to users.
2317 2011-05-30 18:53:45 <diki> I read that every new block has the previous block within it
2318 2011-05-30 18:53:47 <UukGoblin> ok great
2319 2011-05-30 18:53:55 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2320 2011-05-30 18:53:59 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, not really
2321 2011-05-30 18:54:02 peterpansen has joined
2322 2011-05-30 18:54:10 <BlueMatt> why the hell would the interface be changed to allow such crap?
2323 2011-05-30 18:54:19 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, why not?
2324 2011-05-30 18:54:25 Guest67569 is now known as Netsniper
2325 2011-05-30 18:54:27 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: each megabyte of data sent to bitcoin probably already requires 20GB of storage world wide... what happens as bitcoin usage grows?
2326 2011-05-30 18:54:30 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, if I want to use such "crap", I need a way to do this
2327 2011-05-30 18:54:40 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, ok, let me explain my point
2328 2011-05-30 18:54:46 <forrestv> dinox, impossible
2329 2011-05-30 18:54:52 <BlueMatt> again, we will allow it because there is no easy way to disallow it, however because it is bad for the network, and is not the goal of the network, we will not encourage it
2330 2011-05-30 18:55:08 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, currently, you can easily store arbitrary data in the chain by means of burning coins or thankfully still working 0-value txouts. Right?
2331 2011-05-30 18:55:18 shpxnvz has joined
2332 2011-05-30 18:55:21 <dinox> forrestv: hmm... You are probably right
2333 2011-05-30 18:55:38 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, so, if someone is determined, they'll do it
2334 2011-05-30 18:55:39 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: in any case, Im done you keep repeating the same arguments without changing them, and never responding to my arguemtns
2335 2011-05-30 18:55:42 <dinox> there would be a need to lower the diff to 1/10
2336 2011-05-30 18:55:44 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: All the reasons that you want it to work differently are precisely how it's not currently "allowed"
2337 2011-05-30 18:55:50 mattsemar has joined
2338 2011-05-30 18:56:03 <dinox> And all the old clients would reject it creating a fork chain
2339 2011-05-30 18:56:16 <gmaxwell> Something doesn't have to be an impossible force of nature to not be "allowed" being hard to do, and costing fees, and being likely to break, etc... are all disallowances.
2340 2011-05-30 18:56:31 mob444578 has joined
2341 2011-05-30 18:56:34 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, but if you make some changes and say "oh I don't want to receive those DNS transactions, just get me the merkle root of that whole crap and I'll add it" saves loads of bandwidth and everything, rather than accepting them as disguised financial txs with bitcoin addresses
2342 2011-05-30 18:57:15 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: you can't validate that you're not being fed trash without all the data however.
2343 2011-05-30 18:57:26 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, well I thought you agreed with me... What's the problem now? You want to leave the current network functionality but not expose features that it allows to users?
2344 2011-05-30 18:57:27 <gmaxwell> (even if you don't keep it, you still must recieve it)
2345 2011-05-30 18:57:41 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: of course not
2346 2011-05-30 18:57:57 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: What is your problem with alternative chains?
2347 2011-05-30 18:58:12 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, so what are we arguing about / what are your arguments?
2348 2011-05-30 18:58:32 <gmaxwell> The allow you to have strong arbritary data but only add (under the best design) a single hash to a block.
2349 2011-05-30 18:58:36 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2350 2011-05-30 18:58:42 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, well, I don't think they're needed, and I'm afraid they might reduce bitcoin's strength by dividing the GPU power...
2351 2011-05-30 18:58:49 <gmaxwell> And users can continue to fully validate the bitcoin blockchain
2352 2011-05-30 18:58:50 <gmaxwell> OH!
2353 2011-05-30 18:58:56 <gmaxwell> you misunderstand them!
2354 2011-05-30 18:59:11 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: You don't divide the GPU power you combine it.
2355 2011-05-30 18:59:11 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, I did see that there's a way to mine for both, but I'm not sure how it'll work
2356 2011-05-30 18:59:29 <diki> <diki> I read that every new block has the previous block within it <- true or false?
2357 2011-05-30 18:59:34 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, also, I don't want to trade bitcoins for namecoins to buy timestampcoins. It's silly and redudant imho.
2358 2011-05-30 18:59:46 <dinox> diki: false
2359 2011-05-30 18:59:54 <mtrlt> dinox: only the hash
2360 2011-05-30 18:59:54 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: Im saying and let me quote myself here for the 10th time: "because it is bad for the network, and is not the goal of the network, we will not encourage it"
2361 2011-05-30 18:59:59 <mtrlt> whoops
2362 2011-05-30 19:00:02 <mtrlt> diki: only the hash
2363 2011-05-30 19:00:04 <dinox> mtrlt: yeah
2364 2011-05-30 19:00:10 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, anyway, if there is a reason which I don't understand that makes existence of alternative chains useful, then I'm OK with them
2365 2011-05-30 19:00:10 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: but we cant disallow it so we wont
2366 2011-05-30 19:00:23 Mononofu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2367 2011-05-30 19:00:26 <mtrlt> diki: if it always had the previous block, then the block chain would grow quite fast :P
2368 2011-05-30 19:00:27 <diki> Cool, then <diki> If a block is generated 4 seconds after another block, will the previous block be down to 1 less confirm needed?
2369 2011-05-30 19:00:37 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, hang on... what's "it"?
2370 2011-05-30 19:00:45 <mtrlt> diki: no, if the newer block doesn't have the block 4 seconds earlier's hash in it, it is an invalid block
2371 2011-05-30 19:00:52 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: they are very useful for things like BitDNS, they can get the power of the bitcoin miners without needing to have their own such huge mining power
2372 2011-05-30 19:00:53 <mtrlt> therefore, not a block at all
2373 2011-05-30 19:00:54 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: Imagine this. You create your alternative block. It's full of timestamps or names or whatever. You hash it. You put the hash for it in the coinbase tx. So you've only bloated the block by a single hash (and thats a max if use an indirection system for gathering up all alternative chains)
2374 2011-05-30 19:01:03 <diki> but if it does?
2375 2011-05-30 19:01:07 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: allowing users to easily put arbitrary data in the chain
2376 2011-05-30 19:01:14 <diki> this so i know how to handle such situations in my pool
2377 2011-05-30 19:01:23 <mtrlt> diki: then it is a block just like every other block
2378 2011-05-30 19:01:26 vigilyn2 is now known as vigilyn
2379 2011-05-30 19:01:27 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: but you end up marrying the bitcoin history to an arbitrary amount of data.
2380 2011-05-30 19:01:30 <mtrlt> diki: it being fast doesn't mean it's special in any way :p
2381 2011-05-30 19:01:33 <diki> read the part about confirms
2382 2011-05-30 19:01:45 <mtrlt> diki: it affects confirms like any other new block would
2383 2011-05-30 19:01:49 <diki> Speed matters
2384 2011-05-30 19:02:01 <mtrlt> the network just does 2 confirms in 4 seconds :p
2385 2011-05-30 19:02:10 <diki> If my script does not check for two blocks being found within X seconds of each other it will render the front-end broken
2386 2011-05-30 19:02:20 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, well then you DO propose to leave the current network functionality intact, but not expose it to the end-user...
2387 2011-05-30 19:02:24 <diki> it would screw up payments because it would not send any bitcoins
2388 2011-05-30 19:02:45 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: god damn it, if you dont listen why do you expect me to explain anything?
2389 2011-05-30 19:02:47 <diki> i've seen slush's pool generate a block in 4 seconds
2390 2011-05-30 19:02:54 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: so do you understand why is possible to not put extra burden on the block chain but to also not split up the mining effort?
2391 2011-05-30 19:03:22 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, because you said otherwise:
2392 2011-05-30 19:03:28 _Netsniper_ has joined
2393 2011-05-30 19:03:32 <UukGoblin> 195011 <@UukGoblin> BlueMatt, well I thought you agreed with me... What's the problem now? You want to leave the current network functionality but not expose features that it allows to users?
2394 2011-05-30 19:03:36 <UukGoblin> 195026 >@BlueMatt< UukGoblin: of course not
2395 2011-05-30 19:03:48 <BlueMatt> all the crap that you've suggested so far is doable and more appropriate in secondary chains
2396 2011-05-30 19:03:51 tippenein has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2397 2011-05-30 19:04:07 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: sorry, that comment was to the second part
2398 2011-05-30 19:04:21 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, hang on, you've just described how to use the bitcoin blockchain for storing arbitrary other data... where's the "other chain" part in there?
2399 2011-05-30 19:04:31 <BlueMatt> leave current functionality, but not expose that crap to users, of course not expose that crap to users
2400 2011-05-30 19:04:46 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, unless I misunderstood, I'm not sure what coinbase tx is exactly
2401 2011-05-30 19:04:50 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: you store links in the coinbase
2402 2011-05-30 19:04:53 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: The secondary chain stuff really needs to be implemented â so that people who _don't get it_ will stop trying to crapup the block chain.
2403 2011-05-30 19:05:10 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yep, care to do it?
2404 2011-05-30 19:05:26 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: coinbase is the tx which gives the 50 for blockgen
2405 2011-05-30 19:06:03 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: also, rtfm
2406 2011-05-30 19:06:06 <midnightmagic> oOOooo are we talking about namecoin reintegration?
2407 2011-05-30 19:06:08 <UukGoblin> so it's like a regular transaction... almost
2408 2011-05-30 19:06:10 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2409 2011-05-30 19:06:13 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: you run your other block system (however you like), and then commit to it using a single hash added in the bitcoin block (in that single transaction the miner already adds to pay themselves)
2410 2011-05-30 19:06:23 <UukGoblin> what's the difference between storing arbitrary data in the coinbase, and storing arbitrary data in a regular tx?
2411 2011-05-30 19:06:31 <UukGoblin> midnightmagic, I am ;-]
2412 2011-05-30 19:06:33 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: namecoin should have been integrated in the first place using TD's clear design details
2413 2011-05-30 19:06:41 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: the difference is the, done right, a single 256 hash value can bind an unlimited number of alternative chains to the bitcoin one.
2414 2011-05-30 19:06:55 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, exactly my point! that's what I wanted!
2415 2011-05-30 19:06:59 <gmaxwell> no.
2416 2011-05-30 19:07:01 * gmaxwell cries
2417 2011-05-30 19:07:04 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, yes!
2418 2011-05-30 19:07:12 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, not necessarily in the coinbase, in /any/ txs
2419 2011-05-30 19:07:13 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: why do you think Im so pissed at UukGoblin?
2420 2011-05-30 19:07:25 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: yes and that makes all the difference in the world.
2421 2011-05-30 19:07:27 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, and you ARE using the bitcoin blockchain there
2422 2011-05-30 19:07:29 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: which is exactly the opposite of what coinbase is
2423 2011-05-30 19:07:39 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, why?
2424 2011-05-30 19:07:48 MasterChief has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2425 2011-05-30 19:07:51 <BlueMatt> coinbase means you store a ton of data in different chains, so that regular bitcoin nodes dont have to care
2426 2011-05-30 19:08:02 <BlueMatt> your idea means regular bitcoin nodes have to relay, store, etc your random data
2427 2011-05-30 19:08:09 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: putting it in the coin base only ever used 256 bits per block _EVER_. So there can be infinite use of this, and the burden is ony ONE HASH. (assuming you use indirect blocks)
2428 2011-05-30 19:08:22 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: I guess I have no opinion about the TD thing. In some ways, there are dozens or thousands of other applications that would end up just polluting bitcoin namespace. However, Satoshi thought it might be a good idea to integrate them and I think he's smart, so. No opinion. But namecoin's pretty neat.
2429 2011-05-30 19:08:28 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, if you store a ton of data under one 0-value-txout (as a hash), you get exactly the same thing
2430 2011-05-30 19:08:32 <gmaxwell> (one hash per block, of course)
2431 2011-05-30 19:08:43 * TD can't be bothered debating this stuff any more
2432 2011-05-30 19:08:43 MasterChief has joined
2433 2011-05-30 19:08:45 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: NOOOOOOOO
2434 2011-05-30 19:08:57 <BlueMatt> ok, Im done...you wont listen and no one does...
2435 2011-05-30 19:08:58 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: you do that, and I do that, and bob does that, and eventually the block has 500 mbytes of stupid hashes in it.
2436 2011-05-30 19:09:02 <UukGoblin> ok I'm tired too
2437 2011-05-30 19:09:05 <UukGoblin> I see your point now
2438 2011-05-30 19:09:10 <TD> people who are actually doing work instead of just arguing on IRC all day aren't abusing the block chain
2439 2011-05-30 19:09:14 <TD> eg: namecoin has a separate chain
2440 2011-05-30 19:09:18 datguy has joined
2441 2011-05-30 19:09:19 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, yes but it's all prunable 500mbytes
2442 2011-05-30 19:09:36 <BlueMatt> TD: yea...I need to learn...
2443 2011-05-30 19:09:40 [Noodles] has joined
2444 2011-05-30 19:09:44 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: but you still need it to validate it.
2445 2011-05-30 19:09:58 <BlueMatt> speaking of which, has anyone actually worked on the txfee msgs?
2446 2011-05-30 19:10:00 <gmaxwell> Well let me handle it, I'm still to stupid to be productive. :)
2447 2011-05-30 19:10:28 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, ok let's talk on priv or sth perhaps?
2448 2011-05-30 19:10:35 <gmaxwell> great!
2449 2011-05-30 19:11:01 eamon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2450 2011-05-30 19:11:19 <midnightmagic> namecoin's kind of awesome. you can pretty much store any value in the value portion of a name, so it can be used to point to i2p addresses, tor, arbitrary addresses, map functions, and you can register things like keys too.
2451 2011-05-30 19:11:38 <midnightmagic> p/* values.
2452 2011-05-30 19:11:51 <BlueMatt> I agree, but it should not be put in the bitcoin chain
2453 2011-05-30 19:12:00 eamon has joined
2454 2011-05-30 19:14:19 Moonies has joined
2455 2011-05-30 19:15:33 <devrandom> did the holy alpaca manifest yet?
2456 2011-05-30 19:16:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ?
2457 2011-05-30 19:17:21 Mononofu has joined
2458 2011-05-30 19:17:55 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ?
2459 2011-05-30 19:18:22 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: oh, I was asking about devrandom's question as to whether or not gavin has had time to respond to 0.3.22
2460 2011-05-30 19:19:02 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: been dealing with baby with fever >102, haven't emailed yet (you would have seen the CC)
2461 2011-05-30 19:19:31 <BlueMatt> ouch, sorry to hear that...ok well it can wait, or Ill email him if I get around to it
2462 2011-05-30 19:20:56 <devrandom> BlueMatt: feel like firing off a gitian build so we know if we are in sync?
2463 2011-05-30 19:21:02 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2464 2011-05-30 19:21:08 <BlueMatt> devrandom: sure...1 sec
2465 2011-05-30 19:22:07 <devrandom> BlueMatt: make sure you use the latest tools
2466 2011-05-30 19:22:12 <BlueMatt> yep, just pulling now
2467 2011-05-30 19:22:16 <jaromil> devrandom: the holy alpaca appeared today behind the shoulders of Tupac, who is alive and kicking mining bitcoins in New Zealand BTW
2468 2011-05-30 19:22:37 <BlueMatt> devrandom: the holy alpaca == gavin
2469 2011-05-30 19:22:51 <midnightmagic> i think it's working nicely right now. it worrisome that it seems to have coincided with a sag in bitcoin hashrate and mtgox txn volume.
2470 2011-05-30 19:23:04 <jaromil> oh so! gavin and tupac in biz together? niiice
2471 2011-05-30 19:23:14 <BlueMatt> afaik, yes
2472 2011-05-30 19:23:27 mob444578 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2473 2011-05-30 19:23:43 <Kiba> anybody knows of my bitcoinweekly t-shirt?
2474 2011-05-30 19:23:53 <devrandom> jaromil: heh
2475 2011-05-30 19:24:10 <BlueMatt> devrandom: oh, ouch, actually I have a couple diffs to the gitian descriptor (it patches wx to work with ubuntu 11.04)
2476 2011-05-30 19:24:18 toffoo has joined
2477 2011-05-30 19:24:29 <midnightmagic> devrandom: can you elaborate or point me to a wiki re: why you are recommending the latest tools? is there something specific that's cropped up while i've been away @ namecoin? :-)
2478 2011-05-30 19:24:34 <jaromil> BlueMatt: does that wx 2.8 patch works? that's awesome
2479 2011-05-30 19:24:58 <BlueMatt> jaromil: not the one Im talking about, but yes, 2.8 works great, theres a pull req, hopefully for 0.4.0
2480 2011-05-30 19:25:10 <BlueMatt> jaromil: no, I was saying I patch wx itself, not patch bitcoin
2481 2011-05-30 19:25:23 <jaromil> oh ok. i didnt tested that pullreq myself, planning to
2482 2011-05-30 19:25:49 <devrandom> midnightmagic: do you mean https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder ?
2483 2011-05-30 19:26:00 <BlueMatt> devrandom: can you pull the diffs and gitian from https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/tree/gitian0.3.22/contrib
2484 2011-05-30 19:26:12 <BlueMatt> that is what I've been using to build, and plan on continuing to use until 0.4.0
2485 2011-05-30 19:26:13 Guest43729 has joined
2486 2011-05-30 19:26:15 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2487 2011-05-30 19:26:15 <midnightmagic> devrandom: ooOo! new development, I'm excited!
2488 2011-05-30 19:26:20 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2489 2011-05-30 19:26:21 Guest43729 has left ()
2490 2011-05-30 19:26:59 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2491 2011-05-30 19:27:02 <devrandom> midnightmagic: we are using those so that multiple people can build and sign the binary
2492 2011-05-30 19:27:05 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: gitian is what is being used to build win32/linux binaries for bitcoin and the relevant downloader will hopefully be used in 0.4.0 to verify x/y sigs on the new versions before installing them
2493 2011-05-30 19:27:08 eao has joined
2494 2011-05-30 19:28:14 <devrandom> BlueMatt: pulling and building...
2495 2011-05-30 19:28:35 <BlueMatt> devrandom: as am I (5fecb27c1ec6b583fa07)
2496 2011-05-30 19:28:43 johnnympereira5 has joined
2497 2011-05-30 19:28:51 <midnightmagic> I'm very happy to see movement towards superior softeng practices. bravo, guys!
2498 2011-05-30 19:29:08 ro3l has joined
2499 2011-05-30 19:29:20 <BlueMatt> that would all be devrandom, Im just here to watch...
2500 2011-05-30 19:29:25 <devrandom> thanks :)
2501 2011-05-30 19:30:39 <TD> how hard is mac support for gitian?
2502 2011-05-30 19:31:11 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2503 2011-05-30 19:31:21 <BlueMatt> pretty hard...vms of osx isnt really an option, so you'd have to xcompile
2504 2011-05-30 19:31:31 <BlueMatt> for which I know of no solution
2505 2011-05-30 19:32:22 <BlueMatt> well there exist solutions, but Ive never tested them
2506 2011-05-30 19:32:27 <TD> what's wrong with just using a pre-defined toolchain version
2507 2011-05-30 19:33:12 lolcat has joined
2508 2011-05-30 19:33:18 <lolcat> When will the android version be done?
2509 2011-05-30 19:33:51 <BlueMatt> TD: meh, I think devrandom wants to do it mostly in vms, but that might be the only option for mac...dunno needs more research
2510 2011-05-30 19:33:56 davex_r has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2511 2011-05-30 19:33:58 <BlueMatt> Id prefer to see xcompile though
2512 2011-05-30 19:33:58 has joined
2513 2011-05-30 19:34:00 <devrandom> BlueMatt: what is "5fe..."
2514 2011-05-30 19:34:15 <BlueMatt> devrandom: the commit
2515 2011-05-30 19:34:23 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-251-235-67.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Guest36697
2516 2011-05-30 19:34:26 GarrettB has joined
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2518 2011-05-30 19:34:27 GarrettB has joined
2519 2011-05-30 19:34:37 <Xunie> Is it a breach of security for someone to know my exact balance? (Just making sure.)
2520 2011-05-30 19:34:51 <devrandom> BlueMatt: the commit at the tip of that branch seems to be 4e3a1009992439f6a15d
2521 2011-05-30 19:35:02 <TD> lolcat: maybe there'll be a nice one by the end of the summer
2522 2011-05-30 19:35:04 <TD> lolcat: hard to say
2523 2011-05-30 19:35:33 <BlueMatt> devrandom: huh? it shows 5fe for me https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/master
2524 2011-05-30 19:36:04 <lolcat> TD: Weird, making a maemo version took like 15 minutes
2525 2011-05-30 19:36:10 <devrandom> I was looking at the branch - https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/blob/gitian0.3.22/contrib/gitian.yml
2526 2011-05-30 19:36:24 <TD> no, it really didn't
2527 2011-05-30 19:36:29 <TD> the maemo version was just bitcoind running in a shell
2528 2011-05-30 19:36:35 <devrandom> BlueMatt: will pull from master instead
2529 2011-05-30 19:36:38 <TD> there's a gigantic distance between that and something that works well
2530 2011-05-30 19:36:43 <BlueMatt> devrandom: oh ha, no I just wanted you to get the gitian script and diff from there
2531 2011-05-30 19:36:58 <devrandom> ok
2532 2011-05-30 19:36:59 <BlueMatt> (which go in as inputs)
2533 2011-05-30 19:36:59 <TD> i mean end of summer for something that is actually of acceptable quality
2534 2011-05-30 19:37:05 _Netsniper_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2535 2011-05-30 19:37:06 <lolcat> TD: I run bitcoind in a shell on my computer
2536 2011-05-30 19:37:28 <lolcat> Will the android version support NPC?
2537 2011-05-30 19:37:31 fiber has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2538 2011-05-30 19:37:46 <TD> you mean NFC?
2539 2011-05-30 19:37:48 <TD> i have no idea
2540 2011-05-30 19:37:54 <TD> depends who writes the android version i guess
2541 2011-05-30 19:38:02 <lolcat> I meant NFC yes
2542 2011-05-30 19:38:19 <TD> i checked in some code today that was blocking some people who are writing android clients
2543 2011-05-30 19:38:23 <TD> so maybe we'll see some faster progress now
2544 2011-05-30 19:38:27 _Netsniper_ has joined
2545 2011-05-30 19:40:05 <lolcat> Oo
2546 2011-05-30 19:40:32 <lolcat> The Norwegian Deparment of Privacy want more anonomyous payment solutions
2547 2011-05-30 19:40:53 <lolcat> (I am sure I translated their name wrong though)
2548 2011-05-30 19:41:28 <GarrettB> lolcat: cool
2549 2011-05-30 19:41:45 Guest36697 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2550 2011-05-30 19:41:46 <Diablo-D3> you mean the norwegian department of awesome
2551 2011-05-30 19:41:49 <GarrettB> but I'm not sure bitcoin quite fits - bitcoin is pseudonymous
2552 2011-05-30 19:41:54 <GarrettB> not quite anonymous
2553 2011-05-30 19:41:59 <Diablo-D3> GarrettB: well no
2554 2011-05-30 19:42:02 <Diablo-D3> its anonymous in of itself
2555 2011-05-30 19:42:02 <lolcat> It is as anonomyous as cash
2556 2011-05-30 19:42:10 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt prevent you from leaking information on your own
2557 2011-05-30 19:42:36 <devrandom> TD: re OSX - gitian currently builds in a vm because that way the environment can be kept constant (libs, toolchain)
2558 2011-05-30 19:42:37 <lolcat> What they where conserned with was companies holding, names and purchase history
2559 2011-05-30 19:42:38 vigilyn2 has joined
2560 2011-05-30 19:43:17 <TD> yes. for OS X it might be required to install a minimal build environment + toolchain in a separate prefix
2561 2011-05-30 19:43:26 <devrandom> TD: it might be pretty hard to keep things completely deterministic otherwise.
2562 2011-05-30 19:43:32 kreal- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2563 2011-05-30 19:43:33 <lolcat> That is difficult to do with bitcoin. They don't get your name, if you buy something embarassing, simply make a new wallet for it.
2564 2011-05-30 19:43:40 <devrandom> TD: you mean chroot?
2565 2011-05-30 19:44:02 <TD> just a gcc+ld+binutils+libraries into /opt/bitcoin-build or something
2566 2011-05-30 19:44:30 <devrandom> that's possible, but seems like alot of work
2567 2011-05-30 19:44:46 <TD> i'm not sure it's more work than a vm, honestly. but i guess i'll have to prove it at some point
2568 2011-05-30 19:44:46 Moonies has quit (Quit: quack)
2569 2011-05-30 19:45:52 <BlueMatt> well some looking for osx xcompilers might be in order first (dont know if you have done that yet)
2570 2011-05-30 19:46:17 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2571 2011-05-30 19:47:04 <devrandom> TD - I count 51 dyn linked libs in bitcoind
2572 2011-05-30 19:47:16 <TD> using ldd ?
2573 2011-05-30 19:47:22 <devrandom> yes
2574 2011-05-30 19:47:36 <BlueMatt> on osx or on linux?
2575 2011-05-30 19:47:42 <devrandom> linux
2576 2011-05-30 19:47:48 <TD> that shows all libraries expanded recursively. try 'objdump -x bitcoind | grep NEEDED'
2577 2011-05-30 19:47:55 * TD struggling to remember the linux binary arcanerly he once knew
2578 2011-05-30 19:47:59 <TD> arcanery
2579 2011-05-30 19:48:19 <BlueMatt> not sure how different osx would be...the win32 one only shows 5-10 dlls
2580 2011-05-30 19:48:28 <devrandom> 30
2581 2011-05-30 19:48:40 dx398 has quit ()
2582 2011-05-30 19:48:43 <devrandom> with objdump on linux
2583 2011-05-30 19:48:48 <jmpespxoreax> ldd
2584 2011-05-30 19:49:01 <devrandom> but don't you need all the recursive dependencies too?
2585 2011-05-30 19:49:18 <jmpespxoreax> hack up something with perl?
2586 2011-05-30 19:49:21 <devrandom> oh, maybe not
2587 2011-05-30 19:49:42 <TD> let's have a look
2588 2011-05-30 19:49:43 <BlueMatt> devrandom: but those we dont have to care about in terms of indeterminism
2589 2011-05-30 19:49:51 <BlueMatt> right?
2590 2011-05-30 19:50:00 <TD> many years ago i wrote something called 'autopackage'. it had a lot of code to build binaries that were portable to a wide range of linux systems
2591 2011-05-30 19:50:11 <devrandom> hm... trying to think what happens if the recursive ones change
2592 2011-05-30 19:50:17 <BlueMatt> god bitcoin needs that
2593 2011-05-30 19:50:20 <devrandom> I guess nothing
2594 2011-05-30 19:50:36 <TD> yeah, most of these are for the gui
2595 2011-05-30 19:50:47 <EvanR> duh autopackage
2596 2011-05-30 19:50:49 <TD> bitcoind
2597 2011-05-30 19:50:50 <BlueMatt> I'd guess nothing, if you link against one version of x, its deps should change fine without changing bitcoin itself
2598 2011-05-30 19:50:51 kreal- has joined
2599 2011-05-30 19:50:52 <TD> mike@edgewood:~/bitcoin-0.3.22rc2/bin/32$ objdump -x bitcoind|grep NEEDED
2600 2011-05-30 19:50:53 <TD> NEEDED libgthread-2.0.so.0
2601 2011-05-30 19:50:53 <TD> NEEDED libz.so.1
2602 2011-05-30 19:50:53 <TD> NEEDED libdl.so.2
2603 2011-05-30 19:50:53 <TD> NEEDED libpthread.so.0
2604 2011-05-30 19:50:53 <TD> NEEDED libstdc++.so.6
2605 2011-05-30 19:50:53 <TD> NEEDED libm.so.6
2606 2011-05-30 19:50:54 <TD> NEEDED libgcc_s.so.1
2607 2011-05-30 19:50:54 <TD> NEEDED libc.so.6
2608 2011-05-30 19:51:07 <TD> all of those are a standard part of every linux system. the thing to watch out for is the symbol versions in libc
2609 2011-05-30 19:51:27 <TD> we had a tool called apbuild that fixed them at a particular level
2610 2011-05-30 19:51:48 <TD> but i don't know if the tool is still kept around anywhere. i guess it must exist somewhere on the internet.
2611 2011-05-30 19:52:07 <TD> at any rate, it's quite feasible to stick them all into a shared prefix
2612 2011-05-30 19:54:22 <devrandom> TD: maybe the VM stuff is overkill
2613 2011-05-30 19:54:44 <devrandom> another reason for a VM is to compile untrusted code without human supervision
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2615 2011-05-30 19:55:06 <BlueMatt> devrandom: if you use binary packages on a specific version of linux, it should work as well, but that gets really complicated on other distros
2616 2011-05-30 19:55:59 <devrandom> the other thing is that gcc changes between versions
2617 2011-05-30 19:56:13 <devrandom> ah, never mind, we said to compile the toolchain
2618 2011-05-30 19:56:14 larsivi has joined
2619 2011-05-30 19:56:25 <BlueMatt> imo the easiest way is still via a vm
2620 2011-05-30 19:56:28 <devrandom> but yes, if you use binaries, you have to match the release
2621 2011-05-30 19:56:31 Xenefungus has joined
2622 2011-05-30 19:56:37 <BlueMatt> (if a osx xcompiler can be found)
2623 2011-05-30 19:56:59 kreal- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2624 2011-05-30 19:57:01 <BlueMatt> its simple enough via mingw for win32, but osx...
2625 2011-05-30 19:57:21 <TD> vm is fine for now
2626 2011-05-30 19:57:35 <TD> in a sense it just pushes the trust around. how do you verify the vm image wasn't tampered with, etc
2627 2011-05-30 19:57:35 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: okay, so UukGoblin and I have been off in /msg land and I think I got him all synced up on the goodness of married alternative chains. Except for one detailâ
2628 2011-05-30 19:57:54 <TD> compiling the toolchain yourself lets you stay entirely independent of bitcoiners for everything except the source code
2629 2011-05-30 19:58:18 <BlueMatt> TD: currently the vm is all genned by dlding the ubuntu packages for 10.04
2630 2011-05-30 19:58:31 <TD> ah ok
2631 2011-05-30 19:58:40 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: in cases where you'd want to pay for activity on one of these alternative services on a per-incident basis. How the @#$@#$@ do you avoid ending up creating precisely as much burden on the blockchain (or more) with the payment TXN as you would with doing a 0-out TX with a hash in it?
2632 2011-05-30 19:59:27 <TD> it's really not worth arguing with uukgoblin about this. he's been going around in circles for weeks
2633 2011-05-30 19:59:34 <gmaxwell> I've pointed out that not all services need to be one payment per unit of work, and such... but the fact that there will always be many miners means that keeping an open account would have some undesirable quantities.
2634 2011-05-30 20:00:01 <gmaxwell> TD: well, I thought I made good progress in understanding with himâ but he left _me_ with a question that I didn't have the answer for. :)
2635 2011-05-30 20:00:06 <devrandom> TD: the only inputs to the gitian build are: ubuntu distribution, wx sources, upnp sources, bitcoin sources, gitian python scripts
2636 2011-05-30 20:00:07 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: true, but the idea of secondary chains isnt to pay for something, its to have something like dns where its a first-come, first-serve and you dont have to pay
2637 2011-05-30 20:00:14 <TD> devrandom: ok
2638 2011-05-30 20:00:18 <devrandom> TD: the weak link is the ubuntu distribution ;)
2639 2011-05-30 20:00:21 agent-x has joined
2640 2011-05-30 20:00:21 <TD> heh
2641 2011-05-30 20:00:41 <devrandom> but if we get them using deterministic builds too, then the world will be secure ;)
2642 2011-05-30 20:00:49 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: ah. That sadly doesn't do a lot to provide monetary incentives for miners to keep the difficulty high though. :-/
2643 2011-05-30 20:00:52 <BlueMatt> devrandom: you can always apt-get source entire toolchain and build the debs yourself...
2644 2011-05-30 20:01:12 <devrandom> how do you know there's no recursive trojan in gcc?
2645 2011-05-30 20:01:24 <devrandom> it happened with an old C compiler... I think in the 80s
2646 2011-05-30 20:01:29 <BlueMatt> devrandom: well that could exist dlding the toolchain too so...
2647 2011-05-30 20:01:47 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well the point of a second chain isnt to make a high diff on the second chain, in fact the second chain doesnt even have a diff, its just tied to the main chain's diff
2648 2011-05-30 20:01:56 <BlueMatt> which has enough incentive to mine
2649 2011-05-30 20:02:01 <gmaxwell> devrandom: GCC has actually been checked for this using a cross validation approach, if you want I can find the paper.
2650 2011-05-30 20:02:11 <devrandom> gmaxwell: cool
2651 2011-05-30 20:02:13 <TD> alternative chains do have their own difficulty
2652 2011-05-30 20:02:23 <TD> in the case where all you care about is a single hash, he is right, it doesn't make much difference
2653 2011-05-30 20:02:25 <BlueMatt> well it does have a diff, but second chains are designed so that the diff doesnt matter too much for security
2654 2011-05-30 20:02:39 <TD> however that's not enough to implement anything useful beyond timestamping of data.
2655 2011-05-30 20:02:55 <TD> as far as i can tell, only uukgoblin cares about this use case, and he has not implemented anything
2656 2011-05-30 20:02:57 <TD> thus i find it hard to care
2657 2011-05-30 20:03:09 <devrandom> here's an interesting discussion about determinism, recursive compiling, etc. http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1184
2658 2011-05-30 20:03:31 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: right, I was speaking in terms of e.g. after the bitcoin reward is tiny, what incentives keep the bitcoin difficulty high. And one I was expecting was because miners would want payments on married alternative chains.
2659 2011-05-30 20:03:42 <devrandom> however, their conclusion (that gcc is deterministic) is wrong
2660 2011-05-30 20:03:46 <gmaxwell> TD: yes, I pointed out that all his stuff requires "rules free" data.
2661 2011-05-30 20:04:23 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well the "will fees keep miners going" is an entirely different debate
2662 2011-05-30 20:04:23 <UukGoblin> TD, I maybe would implement something if everyone here didn't tell me it's a horrible idea and it'll "harm the network" for some reason I don't fully comprehend
2663 2011-05-30 20:04:45 <BlueMatt> but the goal is that there are enough fees for miners to keep mining
2664 2011-05-30 20:04:48 <UukGoblin> maybe not everyone, I think I have at least 3 people who agree with me
2665 2011-05-30 20:04:52 <TD> it's a matter of principle. if you put random hashes into the chain, then somebody else will want to put in a bit more, etc
2666 2011-05-30 20:05:04 <TD> but whatever
2667 2011-05-30 20:05:08 <TD> i can't be bothered arguing about this any more
2668 2011-05-30 20:05:11 <UukGoblin> I wouldn't want to implement something and then hear it won't be included because it harms the network or sth
2669 2011-05-30 20:05:12 <TD> go ahead and put hashes into the chain
2670 2011-05-30 20:05:21 <gmaxwell> Yea, sorry to bring it back. I'm satisfied.
2671 2011-05-30 20:05:33 _Netsniper_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2672 2011-05-30 20:05:44 <gmaxwell> I just wanted to see if there was some magical solution on this point that I'd missed.
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2675 2011-05-30 20:06:38 <TD> after inflation falls away there's not much incentive to mine beyond collecting the (probably meagre) fees
2676 2011-05-30 20:06:48 <TD> however there's really not much demand, if any, for timestamping in the block chain.
2677 2011-05-30 20:07:01 <TD> if you're really serious about timestamping some document, there's a company that will do it for you
2678 2011-05-30 20:07:07 <TD> the root of the merkle tree is published in the financial times
2679 2011-05-30 20:07:16 <TD> the advantage there is, they will also provide expert witnesses for you
2680 2011-05-30 20:07:32 <TD> so if you want to prove in a court that your timestamped documented existed at that time, it's easier than with the block chain
2681 2011-05-30 20:07:44 <gmaxwell> And probably more accurate timestamps. Bitcoin network time is not always great. :)
2682 2011-05-30 20:07:44 <BlueMatt> devrandom: re: diverse double-compiling to trust the compiler: Im probably missing something, but if a trojan exists in the only compiler you have, how do you know when you assume that trojan will be included in any compiler compiled with your compiler?
2683 2011-05-30 20:08:27 <TD> well, the timestamps are less granual (per month i think)
2684 2011-05-30 20:08:36 <UukGoblin> TD, lol, all for 0.01 BTC?
2685 2011-05-30 20:08:58 <TD> no, but if you're serious about timestamping something, you probably care more than that anyway.
2686 2011-05-30 20:09:05 <UukGoblin> and in a proven way, even when the company goes bankrupt? dude...
2687 2011-05-30 20:09:09 <devrandom> BlueMatt: "Simply recompile the purported source code twice: once with a second (trusted) compiler..."
2688 2011-05-30 20:09:42 <BlueMatt> ah, well then you need a trusted compiler...but thats an entirely different issue
2689 2011-05-30 20:09:48 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: you've seen the faq, right? http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/
2690 2011-05-30 20:09:50 <TD> UukGoblin: yes
2691 2011-05-30 20:09:51 <TD> http://guardtime.com/
2692 2011-05-30 20:09:52 Netsniper has joined
2693 2011-05-30 20:10:04 <TD> they publish the merkle root for you in encoded form, in a manner that everyone can agree means it existed at a particular date
2694 2011-05-30 20:10:08 <TD> then they give you the merkle branch
2695 2011-05-30 20:10:11 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: it assumes you have independantly sourced compilers, not trusted ones.
2696 2011-05-30 20:11:22 _Netsniper_ has joined
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2698 2011-05-30 20:12:08 <UukGoblin> TD, interesting
2699 2011-05-30 20:13:51 <devrandom> TD: BTW, I started work on my escrow-in-blockchain idea. I know you had similar ideas...
2700 2011-05-30 20:13:55 <gmaxwell> What the timeframe for getting namecoin married to bit bitcoin block chain btw?
2701 2011-05-30 20:14:09 <TD> using new script types ?
2702 2011-05-30 20:14:17 <TD> gmaxwell: who knows. vince said he'd done it at some point
2703 2011-05-30 20:14:19 <devrandom> yes
2704 2011-05-30 20:14:24 _Netsniper_ has quit (Client Quit)
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2706 2011-05-30 20:15:11 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: hm, I guess I dont fully understand...so the point is to build the compiler twice using compilers got from two different places, and assume if they result in the same thing, they are both clean?
2707 2011-05-30 20:15:18 <TD> devrandom: cool
2708 2011-05-30 20:15:31 <TD> add support to bitcoinj :-)
2709 2011-05-30 20:15:33 <TD> when you're done
2710 2011-05-30 20:16:09 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: you compile the compiler with compilers from different places, then use the resulting compilers to compile themselves. And then you compare them.
2711 2011-05-30 20:16:16 BaltarNZ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2712 2011-05-30 20:16:26 <devrandom> TD: ok :)
2713 2011-05-30 20:17:01 <devrandom> TD: have to figure out a good way to coordinate with the escrow provider out of band... maybe standardize on some kind of json-rpc protocol
2714 2011-05-30 20:17:10 <TD> ew
2715 2011-05-30 20:17:13 <TD> protobufs plz
2716 2011-05-30 20:17:15 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: ah, ok so in the end its just a question of "lets get as many copies of this compiler as possible, not all of them can be trojaned in the same way"
2717 2011-05-30 20:17:25 <TD> no more protocols that don't support integers properly ;)
2718 2011-05-30 20:17:38 <BlueMatt> TD: protobufs...how google-y of you
2719 2011-05-30 20:17:49 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: e.g. you compile GCC with TCC = GCCt and TCC with GCC = TCCg then you compile GCC with GCCt = GCCtg and TCC with TCCg = TCCgt
2720 2011-05-30 20:18:19 <devrandom> TD: I'm obviously not drinking enough koolaid ;) will look into them
2721 2011-05-30 20:18:19 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: then compare the finale TCCgt and GCCtg with regular gcc compiled gcc and tcc compiled gcc.
2722 2011-05-30 20:18:28 <UukGoblin> I wonder how much this guardtime costs
2723 2011-05-30 20:18:41 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: not just sources but different makers of compilers.
2724 2011-05-30 20:18:42 <TD> the SDKs are free
2725 2011-05-30 20:18:44 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
2726 2011-05-30 20:18:45 <UukGoblin> kinda hard to find on their site
2727 2011-05-30 20:18:47 <TD> i don't know how much it costs to get a sig
2728 2011-05-30 20:19:06 <UukGoblin> but I bet whatever they charge, bitcoin can do better ;-]
2729 2011-05-30 20:19:11 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: so TCC would have to have secret patch code for TCC and GCC and vice versa.
2730 2011-05-30 20:19:29 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: ah, nice...still if both source compilers have the same trojan (which would be hard to port between compilers to say the least) you are still screwed
2731 2011-05-30 20:19:46 <BlueMatt> but a cool idea nonetheless
2732 2011-05-30 20:20:00 <TD> well, depends what you want to do with the proofs i guess
2733 2011-05-30 20:20:05 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: Right, but you can also add more compilers to the mix. (though I think it's only been done with two)
2734 2011-05-30 20:21:27 asdf1234 has joined
2735 2011-05-30 20:21:30 <BlueMatt> yay I think the json-spirit guy might get us a flag so that we can revert the diffs bitcoin made to json-spirit and just use the stock version
2736 2011-05-30 20:21:43 <gmaxwell> If any compiler doesn't have exploits for both themselves and all the other compilers. You're fine. This can be pretty powerful when think of how likely Compiler X would have patch code for Y when Y is a different brand and version ten years younger. :)
2737 2011-05-30 20:21:47 <BlueMatt> (the only diff of use is that we use 8 decimal places instead of 16)
2738 2011-05-30 20:22:30 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: true, though tbh im not *too* concerned with my packages of gcc/etc being trojaned...but I suppose for the ultra-paranoid it is very useful ;)
2739 2011-05-30 20:22:52 <CIA-103> bitcoin-release: Dev Random master * r06b9b95 / (4 files in 3 dirs): 0.3.22 build report by devrandom with BlueMatt's fixes - http://bit.ly/kX4R8S
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2741 2011-05-30 20:23:55 <devrandom> BlueMatt: report is up... will build again to see if there's flakiness
2742 2011-05-30 20:26:04 <UukGoblin> what does -paytxfee do then, anyway?
2743 2011-05-30 20:27:37 <ro3l> sets the default amount you want to add to each transaction to bribe miners to add it in
2744 2011-05-30 20:27:37 <ro3l> haha
2745 2011-05-30 20:28:02 <UukGoblin> /each/
2746 2011-05-30 20:28:03 <UukGoblin> eek
2747 2011-05-30 20:28:10 <BlueMatt> devrandom: hm...performance here seems to be terrible...ah, I have vbox extensions loaded...for some reason it still builds right with them loaded on i386, but its *really* slow, and dies on amd64, does it fallback to software virt when it cant load kvm mod?
2748 2011-05-30 20:28:32 Strom- has joined
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2750 2011-05-30 20:28:44 <devrandom> type "kvm" and see if it complains about the kernel module
2751 2011-05-30 20:28:44 mosi has joined
2752 2011-05-30 20:29:18 <BlueMatt> devrandom: well too late now, I just restarted it with kvm loaded, but it had been running without any kvm mods loaded (lsmod | grep kvm gave nothing)
2753 2011-05-30 20:29:34 d4de has joined
2754 2011-05-30 20:29:50 <devrandom> BlueMatt: qemu automatically falls back to emulated mode
2755 2011-05-30 20:29:53 SanguineRose_ has joined
2756 2011-05-30 20:30:04 <BlueMatt> devrandom: actually, yes, it still wouldnt load kvm mod and fell back to soft virt
2757 2011-05-30 20:30:13 <BlueMatt> loading manually worked fine
2758 2011-05-30 20:30:20 Spyou` has joined
2759 2011-05-30 20:30:38 <devrandom> BlueMatt: maybe vbox turned off auto loading of kvm module?
2760 2011-05-30 20:30:47 <BlueMatt> and man that makes a huge difference in performance, virtualbox's software virt is pretty good, qemu's sucks
2761 2011-05-30 20:30:55 mologie_ has joined
2762 2011-05-30 20:31:01 <BlueMatt> devrandom: or something...maybe it failed once and cached that somehow...
2763 2011-05-30 20:31:11 dmh has joined
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2766 2011-05-30 20:31:39 <ZOP> OK I have a question, that may or may not have an obvious answer....I've got a couple local clients, one of which is "caught up" (Linux), the other I've had to dump the block database and start over (Win7/64 if it matters on that one) -- now, I'm really not sure why, but it'll gobble up a seemingly random number of blocks, then stumble and stall. I've the windows machine set to connect ONLY to the caught up (local) Linux box.
2767 2011-05-30 20:31:52 idnaria has joined
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2770 2011-05-30 20:32:08 <ZOP> Both machines are overpowered (a wuad core and hexacore, nearly idle CPUs)
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2773 2011-05-30 20:32:52 <BlueMatt> does it stop completely or just slow to a crawl?
2774 2011-05-30 20:32:58 <ZOP> Stops completely.
2775 2011-05-30 20:33:01 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2776 2011-05-30 20:33:08 T_X_ has joined
2777 2011-05-30 20:33:09 <BlueMatt> (downloading blocks is disk limited after a getting started)
2778 2011-05-30 20:33:16 BaltarNZ has joined
2779 2011-05-30 20:33:16 <ZOP> Sometimes, eventually, after hours, it'll start sucking down blocks again.
2780 2011-05-30 20:33:31 <BlueMatt> hm, now that I havent seen
2781 2011-05-30 20:33:37 <ZOP> So there's some throttling inside the client somewhere?
2782 2011-05-30 20:33:39 <BlueMatt> does debug.log show anything?
2783 2011-05-30 20:33:53 <ZOP> Orphans start showing up after it smacks its head
2784 2011-05-30 20:34:04 <ZOP> but nothing like "OMG SHIT I DIED" or anything like that.
2785 2011-05-30 20:34:24 <BlueMatt> so maybe it gets confused and starts thinking everything is orphan...what version are you running?
2786 2011-05-30 20:34:55 Sthebig_ has joined
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2788 2011-05-30 20:35:33 <devrandom> BlueMatt: could check for existence of /dev/kvm... /etc/init/qemu-kvm.conf is supposed to load it at startup but it probably conflicts with vbox and doesn't... or something. I don't think it's autoloaded on use.
2789 2011-05-30 20:35:41 <ZOP> 0.3.21 on both.
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2793 2011-05-30 20:36:24 <ZOP> if i stop/restart the client, it'll scream along for a while then stumble on it's face
2794 2011-05-30 20:36:39 <BlueMatt> devrandom: well maybe its not autoloaded at all, which would make sense, it just falls back to qemu by default and slows to a crawl unless I manually modprobe kvm_intel then
2795 2011-05-30 20:36:49 ahbritto__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2796 2011-05-30 20:36:49 <ZOP> same behavior if i let it connect to the wild, just seems to take a little longer (most likely on account of trying to connect to a live node)
2797 2011-05-30 20:36:53 <BlueMatt> it doesnt matter, it goes really quick after I modprobe kvm_intel
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2827 2011-05-30 20:37:00 Sthebig_ is now known as Sthebig
2828 2011-05-30 20:37:04 <dinox> nanotube: ping
2829 2011-05-30 20:37:07 SanguineRose_ is now known as SanguineRose
2830 2011-05-30 20:37:09 <BlueMatt> (already done with i386)
2831 2011-05-30 20:37:14 dr_win has joined
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2833 2011-05-30 20:37:24 <devrandom> ok... I'll add a check for /dev/kvm in gbuild and warn
2834 2011-05-30 20:37:29 rlifchitz has joined
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2836 2011-05-30 20:37:55 <BlueMatt> sounds good
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2841 2011-05-30 20:38:38 <ZOP> but if there's no intentional throttling mechanism, then I think there's a bug somewhere....
2842 2011-05-30 20:38:40 <TD> i must say
2843 2011-05-30 20:38:45 <TD> guardtimes documentation is piss poor
2844 2011-05-30 20:38:51 darkskiez has joined
2845 2011-05-30 20:38:55 <TD> they have about 20 documents explaining their technique at a high level
2846 2011-05-30 20:39:05 <ZOP> Not exactly sure what triggers it yet if that is the case, because not all orphan errors immediately result in the thing stalling...
2847 2011-05-30 20:39:06 <TD> if you want to actually see the merkle tree algorithm you have to read the code of the sdk
2848 2011-05-30 20:39:10 darksk1ez has joined
2849 2011-05-30 20:39:11 eamon has joined
2850 2011-05-30 20:39:21 <ZOP> hmmmm yanno.... it might be it splatters itself when it hears a transaction.
2851 2011-05-30 20:39:29 _flow_ has joined
2852 2011-05-30 20:39:49 <BlueMatt> ZOP: hm Ive never seen it, if you could debug it a bit more though, that would be very helpful...
2853 2011-05-30 20:39:56 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2854 2011-05-30 20:40:04 Jaagu has joined
2855 2011-05-30 20:40:19 <ZOP> yeah, going to try to. Don't really do development on windows anymore.
2856 2011-05-30 20:40:53 sethsethseth_ has joined
2857 2011-05-30 20:41:21 <BlueMatt> I dont blame you, I got out of there as soon as I figured out I can build bitcoin via mingw to cross compile for win32
2858 2011-05-30 20:41:34 asdf1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2859 2011-05-30 20:41:44 <ZOP> Aye. Win32 is a pretty unholy mess honestly.
2860 2011-05-30 20:41:55 <ZOP> only biodegradeable os!
2861 2011-05-30 20:42:00 ersi has joined
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2863 2011-05-30 20:42:30 <ZOP> and only os that can take a machine with 12GB of RAM 10K RPM HDDs and 4 3.4Ghz procs and make it feel slow (even without the GPU miner running in the background! lol)
2864 2011-05-30 20:42:53 <devrandom> can't we just ship linux bitcoin with a virtual machine wrapper for win32? ;)
2865 2011-05-30 20:42:54 <BlueMatt> my god, nice rig
2866 2011-05-30 20:43:20 <BlueMatt> devrandom: windows users probably wouldnt notice the difference in performance tbh
2867 2011-05-30 20:44:02 <ZOP> Bought it a bit ago for CAD/CAMing.
2868 2011-05-30 20:44:13 <ZOP> which has turned into only about 10% of my work lately.
2869 2011-05-30 20:44:39 <BlueMatt> 12 GB ok, nice HDDs ok, but 4 PROCS??? which mobo do you even have, or do you mean 4 cores?
2870 2011-05-30 20:44:54 <ZOP> So I let the second GPU run poclbm.
2871 2011-05-30 20:45:08 Jaagu has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2872 2011-05-30 20:45:21 * devrandom is debating whether 1 CPU with 6 cores is good enough for his next machine, or if he should go dual proc
2873 2011-05-30 20:45:53 <ZOP> Older series opteron, Tyan board.
2874 2011-05-30 20:45:57 * BlueMatt wishes he had the money for that kind of rig, my 4-core highly oc'd i7-920 will have to do...
2875 2011-05-30 20:45:57 <ZOP> four CPUs
2876 2011-05-30 20:46:02 <ZOP> two cores each
2877 2011-05-30 20:46:03 <BlueMatt> hot damn, nice
2878 2011-05-30 20:46:10 luke-jr_ is now known as luke-jr
2879 2011-05-30 20:46:16 <ZOP> So the CPUs really aren't that fast.
2880 2011-05-30 20:46:25 <ZOP> the sixer is a hexacore single socket job
2881 2011-05-30 20:46:31 <BlueMatt> still...four of them, that is an expensive mobo
2882 2011-05-30 20:46:52 <ZOP> and each of it's cores is almost 2x faster than this things CPUs, the GPUs are newer.
2883 2011-05-30 20:46:56 <ZOP> At the time yeah lol
2884 2011-05-30 20:47:18 <BlueMatt> 4 cpu mobos are still expensive as hell
2885 2011-05-30 20:47:26 <BlueMatt> even 2-cpu ones aren't cheap
2886 2011-05-30 20:48:23 <ZOP> eh, I dont recall the motherboard being all that expensive...lemme lookup the invoice.
2887 2011-05-30 20:48:42 <devrandom> hm... I don't think newegg carries dual procs
2888 2011-05-30 20:49:39 <BlueMatt> they should
2889 2011-05-30 20:50:12 Xenland has joined
2890 2011-05-30 20:50:23 <Xenland> Any one use kalyHost
2891 2011-05-30 20:51:55 <BlueMatt> devrandom: well it looks like they only carry one intel 2-proc
2892 2011-05-30 20:51:55 <ne0futur> yup many peple use kalyhost ;)
2893 2011-05-30 20:51:59 <ZOP> $375 for the motherboard at the time looks like.
2894 2011-05-30 20:52:00 <BlueMatt> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188070
2895 2011-05-30 20:52:13 <ne0futur> me, mtgox, bitcoincharts and much more ;)
2896 2011-05-30 20:52:43 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2897 2011-05-30 20:53:00 <ZOP> yeah intel's been losing out on pure core counts for a while
2898 2011-05-30 20:53:18 <devrandom> BlueMatt: thanks... I think I want to stick with AMD
2899 2011-05-30 20:53:26 <ZOP> HyperTransport is 1000x easier to engineer than their old northbridge/southbridge crap, and QPI isn't really better.
2900 2011-05-30 20:53:41 <BlueMatt> devrandom: well I see no amd dual-proc mobos on newegg
2901 2011-05-30 20:53:45 <ZOP> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813151219
2902 2011-05-30 20:53:51 <mrb_> there are plenty dual-proc amd mobos
2903 2011-05-30 20:53:59 <ZOP> 4x 8 or 12 core opty 6100s for that bad boy
2904 2011-05-30 20:54:05 <ZOP> $840 for the mobo though.
2905 2011-05-30 20:54:07 <BlueMatt> hm, I guess Im blind
2906 2011-05-30 20:54:07 <Xenland> I recently accquired hosting at kalyhost, and they gave me ip and password information, but I dont know what my username should be for SSH or VNC. I keep getting dissconnected or it just hangs there
2907 2011-05-30 20:54:11 <mrb_> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=302&Description=&Type=&N=100007629&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PropertyCodeValue=713:79261&PropertyCodeValue=713:57038
2908 2011-05-30 20:54:14 <ZOP> have to click on Server Motherboards
2909 2011-05-30 20:54:21 <BlueMatt> yep
2910 2011-05-30 20:54:31 <devrandom> ah
2911 2011-05-30 20:55:00 <BlueMatt> still expensive...but I prefer intel...
2912 2011-05-30 20:55:09 <BlueMatt> though probably not for much longer
2913 2011-05-30 20:55:11 <ZOP> but yeah if you've got a CPU/core intensive workload, intel is a loser 100% right now...that MAY change, but hard to say heh.
2914 2011-05-30 20:55:43 <BlueMatt> depends on the specifics of the load, but yea...typically amd right now
2915 2011-05-30 20:56:20 <lolcat> Intel isn't best?
2916 2011-05-30 20:56:34 <ZOP> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819105271
2917 2011-05-30 20:56:39 <ZOP> (8 core bargain)
2918 2011-05-30 20:56:44 <lolcat> I heard dual-core intel beats quad, and sometimes even hexa core amd
2919 2011-05-30 20:56:56 <ZOP> they have 12 core 6100's witth the cHT links but they're $500/pop
2920 2011-05-30 20:57:05 <BlueMatt> lolcat: yes, but if you have 8 core amd, it still beats a 4-core intel
2921 2011-05-30 20:57:07 <Diablo-D3> heh
2922 2011-05-30 20:57:09 <Diablo-D3> cores
2923 2011-05-30 20:57:09 <Diablo-D3> lol
2924 2011-05-30 20:57:12 ahbritto has joined
2925 2011-05-30 20:57:51 <BlueMatt> (well only sometimes, but for perf/price or per/power, amd typically wins out)
2926 2011-05-30 20:57:59 <devrandom> it doesn't look like the server motherboards can accommodate two dual-slot graphics cards
2927 2011-05-30 20:58:00 <BlueMatt> if you want perf/core, intel might be better, but only might
2928 2011-05-30 20:58:02 <lolcat> BlueMatt: Could you use a server cpu in a desktop?
2929 2011-05-30 20:58:15 <ZOP> Yes.
2930 2011-05-30 20:58:19 <BlueMatt> lolcat: yes, as long as the socket is the same
2931 2011-05-30 20:58:59 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2932 2011-05-30 20:59:05 <ZOP> With intel's product lines the only real difference tends to be how much they charge you for it anymore. Some don't allow DP. And there's no QP option for intel ATM that I'm aware of.
2933 2011-05-30 20:59:18 <ZOP> and I should sat socket not proc hah.
2934 2011-05-30 20:59:22 <ZOP> *say
2935 2011-05-30 20:59:32 sivu has joined
2936 2011-05-30 20:59:54 <lolcat> Is there any 8 core Intel cpus now?
2937 2011-05-30 21:00:16 <BlueMatt> yea, amd tends to just throw more cores at the problem...intel tries to optimize for cores, but if you have a well-threaded workload, amd wins there
2938 2011-05-30 21:00:42 ar4s has joined
2939 2011-05-30 21:00:55 <Diablo-D3> intel? optimize cores? lololol
2940 2011-05-30 21:01:02 <Diablo-D3> intel couldnt optimize their way out of a wet sack
2941 2011-05-30 21:01:13 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2942 2011-05-30 21:01:19 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: and yet they typically get better perf/core than amd
2943 2011-05-30 21:01:23 <ar4s> optimize=DRM?
2944 2011-05-30 21:01:27 <devrandom> BlueMatt: second build completed and identical
2945 2011-05-30 21:01:43 <BlueMatt> devrandom: just finishing up build of amd64, will post in a sec
2946 2011-05-30 21:02:08 <Diablo-D3> bluematt: yes, but fail at perf/(watt+dollar)
2947 2011-05-30 21:02:13 <BlueMatt> yep
2948 2011-05-30 21:02:21 MasterChief has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2949 2011-05-30 21:02:29 <Diablo-D3> I could overclock an AMD thing and get magical performance too
2950 2011-05-30 21:02:32 <Diablo-D3> but why fucking bother
2951 2011-05-30 21:02:33 <BlueMatt> hence why my conclusion was amd wins on well-threaded applications
2952 2011-05-30 21:02:34 <Diablo-D3> cpus are old hat
2953 2011-05-30 21:02:40 <Diablo-D3> dude
2954 2011-05-30 21:02:42 <Diablo-D3> a fucking RADEON
2955 2011-05-30 21:02:45 <Diablo-D3> wins on well threaded apps
2956 2011-05-30 21:02:57 <Diablo-D3> all 1600 threads.
2957 2011-05-30 21:03:08 <ZOP> lol yeah, as long as the program is very simple :)
2958 2011-05-30 21:03:12 <BlueMatt> when you can run your kernel/web browser/email client on your radeon Ill be impressed...until then have fun mining
2959 2011-05-30 21:03:42 <ZOP> the GPUs get those wins by not doing a lot of things that make CPUs good for general workloads
2960 2011-05-30 21:03:46 <lolcat> Is there any mobos for desktops that supports two cpus?
2961 2011-05-30 21:04:00 draag has joined
2962 2011-05-30 21:04:02 <ZOP> very restrictive branching, short code lengths.
2963 2011-05-30 21:04:24 <lfm> lolcat yes
2964 2011-05-30 21:04:31 <BlueMatt> lolcat: mobos for desktops and servers are pretty much identical unless you start looking at mem stuff
2965 2011-05-30 21:04:33 <ZOP> lolcat: the only distinction is in the name between a server and a desktop motherboard. if you want 2+ processors you'll almost always have to look at server or workstation class systems.
2966 2011-05-30 21:05:00 draaglom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2967 2011-05-30 21:05:01 eternal1 has joined
2968 2011-05-30 21:05:09 <ZOP> for most desktop workloads going dual socket won't help ya anyway.
2969 2011-05-30 21:05:34 <lolcat> I guess I will get a server mobo, two i7-2600k, stupidly much ram, and two-three gpus
2970 2011-05-30 21:05:39 <lfm> ZOP: depends on your definition
2971 2011-05-30 21:06:11 TD has joined
2972 2011-05-30 21:06:14 <lfm> lolcat: if it is just for bitcoin, you sure dont need those cpus
2973 2011-05-30 21:06:15 agent-x has left ()
2974 2011-05-30 21:06:15 <BlueMatt> devrandom: it appears the lastest version broke signing with a name with a space in the middle
2975 2011-05-30 21:06:47 <devrandom> don't remember changing anything there... how about using BlueMatt?
2976 2011-05-30 21:06:53 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
2977 2011-05-30 21:07:06 <BlueMatt> devrandom: cant, my gpg key is under Matt Corallo
2978 2011-05-30 21:07:20 <devrandom> uid Matt Corallo (BlueMatt) <matt@bluematt.me>
2979 2011-05-30 21:07:21 <BlueMatt> actually nvm
2980 2011-05-30 21:07:41 <BlueMatt> yea that works fine, but it would be nice to get full name support
2981 2011-05-30 21:07:53 <devrandom> ok, let me look into it
2982 2011-05-30 21:08:35 <lolcat> lfm: browsing the internetz
2983 2011-05-30 21:08:57 zertam has joined
2984 2011-05-30 21:09:00 <devrandom> BlueMatt: fixed and pushed
2985 2011-05-30 21:09:46 samfisher has joined
2986 2011-05-30 21:09:53 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2987 2011-05-30 21:10:35 <BlueMatt> devrandom: thanks, fixed now
2988 2011-05-30 21:10:50 slush has joined
2989 2011-05-30 21:11:14 <ZOP> lolcat: if yer talking about a mining rig, save a log of money, and just go with GPUs, even a radeon 5830 GROSSLY outperforms CPUs
2990 2011-05-30 21:11:39 <CIA-103> bitcoin-release: Matt Corallo master * r1f15953 / (2 files): Add my sigs for 0.3.22. - http://bit.ly/kYxZpf
2991 2011-05-30 21:11:45 <BlueMatt> devrandom: my sig^
2992 2011-05-30 21:12:21 samfisher has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2993 2011-05-30 21:12:39 <lolcat> ZOP: I need a mobo with bunches of x16 ports then
2994 2011-05-30 21:13:05 Xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2995 2011-05-30 21:13:13 <devrandom> BlueMatt: they match :) :)
2996 2011-05-30 21:13:25 vigilyn2 is now known as vigilyn
2997 2011-05-30 21:13:57 <BlueMatt> devrandom: yep, I checked them :) :)
2998 2011-05-30 21:14:24 <devrandom> I like determinism... even if it's only 90% of the time
2999 2011-05-30 21:14:27 bitcoiner has joined
3000 2011-05-30 21:14:45 <BlueMatt> yep
3001 2011-05-30 21:17:40 <tcatm> BlueMatt: should I add my signatures, too? If so, what's needed to do that?
3002 2011-05-30 21:17:55 BitVector has joined
3003 2011-05-30 21:18:13 <Phoebus> ZOP, what cpu would do a decent job at lifting say 4 gpus and not being the bottleneck? (on the cheap)
3004 2011-05-30 21:18:24 <Phoebus> I guess it depends on the mobo with extra pci extreme you can get...
3005 2011-05-30 21:18:42 <BlueMatt> tcatm: https://gist.github.com/961527 should cover it...but change the commit on gbuild to the latest one from bitcoin head
3006 2011-05-30 21:18:59 <BlueMatt> (you can skip the win32 xcompile stuff for now)
3007 2011-05-30 21:19:22 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3008 2011-05-30 21:20:10 <devrandom> BlueMatt: maybe we should put that gist in the bitcoin-release repo under docs
3009 2011-05-30 21:20:18 <ZOP> Phoebus: Anything.
3010 2011-05-30 21:20:25 <Phoebus> Hehe ok.
3011 2011-05-30 21:20:28 <ZOP> Phoebus: the CPU is barely involved when you're doing GPU mining.
3012 2011-05-30 21:20:43 <ZOP> atleast if your GPU mining client isn't borked.
3013 2011-05-30 21:20:53 <BlueMatt> devrandom: sure, probably a good idea, but change the commit to indicate that the proper one should be used there to replace the one specified
3014 2011-05-30 21:20:54 <Phoebus> ZOP, I watched a mining video on youtube where the cpu was maxed and screen was low on refresh.
3015 2011-05-30 21:20:59 <Phoebus> But the hash rates were good.
3016 2011-05-30 21:21:07 <Mononofu> i mine on an atom and have cpu < 5%
3017 2011-05-30 21:21:39 <ZOP> then they had a broken client, yer screen refresh may suffer, but an unbroken GPU client (atleast on ATI cards, thats all I'm using ATM) will use a neglgible amount of CPU
3018 2011-05-30 21:21:53 <devrandom> BlueMatt: ok. I'm actually storing the commit in bitcoin-release under the release dir... so I can `cat .../commit`
3019 2011-05-30 21:22:07 <BlueMatt> fair enough then
3020 2011-05-30 21:22:36 <tcatm> "cp ../bitcoin/contrib/toplevel.* ./inputs/" fails (file not found)
3021 2011-05-30 21:22:39 MasterChief has joined
3022 2011-05-30 21:23:06 <BlueMatt> tcatm: it has to be from my branch...
3023 2011-05-30 21:23:59 <BlueMatt> tcatm: you have to pull those from TheBlueMatt/gitian0.3.22 branch or gitian0.3.22 if you cloned from the command in that script
3024 2011-05-30 21:24:30 <tcatm> k
3025 2011-05-30 21:26:23 <devrandom> BlueMatt: adding instructions to do "git clone git://github.com/devrandom/bitcoin-release.git gitian-builder/sigs/bitcoin"
3026 2011-05-30 21:28:11 <CIA-103> bitcoin-release: Dev Random master * r39d3d87 / (README.md docs/build.sh): move build giest into docs - http://bit.ly/l7euxO
3027 2011-05-30 21:28:44 Mononofu has left ()
3028 2011-05-30 21:29:10 <BlueMatt> devrandom: looks good
3029 2011-05-30 21:29:25 <BlueMatt> s/sounds/looks/
3030 2011-05-30 21:30:13 <devrandom> tcatm: BlueMatt: https://github.com/devrandom/bitcoin-release/blob/master/docs/build.sh
3031 2011-05-30 21:30:43 jivvz has joined
3032 2011-05-30 21:34:19 zertam has quit (Quit: zertam)
3033 2011-05-30 21:35:24 <CIA-103> bitcoin-release: Dev Random master * r13786c1 / docs/build.sh : sign and verify instructions - http://bit.ly/j5ySmL
3034 2011-05-30 21:38:04 Xenefungus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3035 2011-05-30 21:42:18 Akiron has joined
3036 2011-05-30 21:42:35 Akiron has quit (Client Quit)
3037 2011-05-30 21:42:54 asdf1234 has joined
3038 2011-05-30 21:44:40 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
3039 2011-05-30 21:50:42 devrandom1 has joined
3040 2011-05-30 21:51:10 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3041 2011-05-30 21:51:21 <diki> seems foreaching through the json decoded array of transactions is a bit hard
3042 2011-05-30 21:56:46 <darbsllim> is there anyone in here that knows where a Startup would go to get an api for accepting payments from, verifying, and paying users in BitCoin automatically?
3043 2011-05-30 21:57:52 <tcatm> darbsllim: bitcoind's JSON-RPC API?
3044 2011-05-30 21:58:25 <darbsllim> tcatm is that the best method?
3045 2011-05-30 21:58:34 <diki> seems that i need a lot of info on arrays on this one
3046 2011-05-30 21:59:49 <phantomcircuit> darbsllim, for now it is, alternatively you can use the mtgox api
3047 2011-05-30 22:00:36 maqr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3048 2011-05-30 22:01:12 <asdf1234> or clearcoin perhaps ?
3049 2011-05-30 22:01:56 <phantomcircuit> asdf1234, that's an escrow service, not really an api provider
3050 2011-05-30 22:02:07 <asdf1234> they have an API afaik
3051 2011-05-30 22:02:43 <asdf1234> maybe not yet
3052 2011-05-30 22:05:07 Incitatus has joined
3053 2011-05-30 22:05:17 <phantomcircuit> asdf1234, honestly i wouldnt use it for other reasons
3054 2011-05-30 22:06:09 asdf1234 has quit ()
3055 2011-05-30 22:07:36 <ro3l> just wondering... if miners did NOT keep track of # of hashes per second.. would it speed up anything at all?
3056 2011-05-30 22:08:09 <ro3l> or is it so little work to do the calc and printing that it doesn't matter?
3057 2011-05-30 22:10:14 <phantomcircuit> doesn't matter
3058 2011-05-30 22:10:25 <edcba> usually it's insignifiant
3059 2011-05-30 22:16:02 dvide_ has joined
3060 2011-05-30 22:17:40 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3061 2011-05-30 22:18:22 <BlueMatt> why does the client not pay attention to oversized txes in terms of fees when forwarding?
3062 2011-05-30 22:19:33 Xenland has joined
3063 2011-05-30 22:22:31 <diki> huh just my luck
3064 2011-05-30 22:22:36 <diki> it works without much intervention
3065 2011-05-30 22:23:16 <diki> But there is one problem i am facing. I will put a small offset when checking for confirmations. However what do i do if there are two blocks matching this criteria?
3066 2011-05-30 22:23:16 <mrb_> phantomcircuit: want to bet 10 BTC I can improve jsMiner's perfomance by at least 60%?
3067 2011-05-30 22:23:34 <diki> *the offset will be when checking the time
3068 2011-05-30 22:23:56 <diki> since pushpool stores the share/block a few seconds after it's been found
3069 2011-05-30 22:24:05 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, not really, that neither makes a difference to me nor proves that it's a reasonable mining method
3070 2011-05-30 22:24:16 <mrb_> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10718.0
3071 2011-05-30 22:24:31 <mrb_> apparently I am "smarter than ArtForz". oops.
3072 2011-05-30 22:25:04 <phantomcircuit> mrb_, btw that wont run in a normal browser
3073 2011-05-30 22:25:09 <phantomcircuit> it'll just keep stalling
3074 2011-05-30 22:25:10 <mrb_> I also wrote a CAL miner faster than his on 69xx. oops.
3075 2011-05-30 22:25:28 <mrb_> it would be nice if you guys took me seriously when I quote perf numbers.
3076 2011-05-30 22:25:29 <ArtForz> so you beat a miner highly optimized for 58xx on 69xx, great for you
3077 2011-05-30 22:25:50 <phantomcircuit> lol
3078 2011-05-30 22:25:53 <ArtForz> and your "highly optimized" miner is slower than the public OCL miners on 58xx. whoops.
3079 2011-05-30 22:25:54 <mrb_> phantomcircuit: bitp.it works fine in V8
3080 2011-05-30 22:26:23 <mrb_> apparently you don't need to be very "smart" to optimize js code
3081 2011-05-30 22:26:56 <phantomcircuit> clue
3082 2011-05-30 22:27:03 <phantomcircuit> nobody smart cares
3083 2011-05-30 22:27:06 <ArtForz> shrug, whatever
3084 2011-05-30 22:27:34 <mrb_> 07:50 < phantomcircuit> if you worked REALLY hard you could get to 1/1000th
3085 2011-05-30 22:27:51 <phantomcircuit> yeah now get yours to run in an actual browser window
3086 2011-05-30 22:27:54 <mrb_> just don't comment on stuff you don't know in the future.
3087 2011-05-30 22:28:10 noagendamarket has joined
3088 2011-05-30 22:28:21 <phantomcircuit> hint a simple for loop wont work
3089 2011-05-30 22:29:25 <mrb_> sigh
3090 2011-05-30 22:33:01 <ArtForz> so... 50000 concurrent users would be nearly as fast as a 5970
3091 2011-05-30 22:34:05 <mrb_> do you think I think js mining in worth it?
3092 2011-05-30 22:34:50 <ArtForz> I just dont see the point
3093 2011-05-30 22:34:56 <ArtForz> js is slow. period.
3094 2011-05-30 22:35:26 <dmh> i drag race my go-cart
3095 2011-05-30 22:35:29 <mrb_> the point is to show people that when I quote perf numbers, I can back them.
3096 2011-05-30 22:36:00 <ArtForz> with what?
3097 2011-05-30 22:36:14 <ArtForz> I can fudge platforms until I get the wanted numbers, too
3098 2011-05-30 22:36:15 <mrb_> this: 07:50 < phantomcircuit> if you worked REALLY hard you could get to 1/1000th
3099 2011-05-30 22:36:42 <ArtForz> a modern desktop CPU gets nother of 16Mhps
3100 2011-05-30 22:36:55 <mrb_> get your order of magnitude right gosh.
3101 2011-05-30 22:37:00 <ArtForz> last time I checked, 13.9 * 1000 < 16
3102 2011-05-30 22:37:15 <EvanR> 13.9 * 1000 < 16
3103 2011-05-30 22:37:19 <ArtForz> +k +M
3104 2011-05-30 22:37:25 <mrb_> apples. oranges.
3105 2011-05-30 22:37:31 <ArtForz> what?
3106 2011-05-30 22:37:36 <ArtForz> factor of 1000.
3107 2011-05-30 22:37:38 <mrb_> 13.9k is on a 1.3GHz single core
3108 2011-05-30 22:37:43 <ArtForz> not OVER 9000, but hey...
3109 2011-05-30 22:37:58 <ArtForz> on a 1.3ghz single core with a really crappy sse engine
3110 2011-05-30 22:38:04 <mrb_> I benchmarked cpuminer at 825 kH/s on my CPU
3111 2011-05-30 22:38:04 bittrader has joined
3112 2011-05-30 22:38:07 <ArtForz> and sse2 code certainly not optimized for it
3113 2011-05-30 22:38:27 <Xenland> jgarzik: any updates comming up on pushpoold?
3114 2011-05-30 22:38:34 <ArtForz> btw, the sse2 code gets 0 khps on a P3, so the js is infinity times faster there
3115 2011-05-30 22:38:38 <mrb_> you are not going to turn that 1/39th per diff to 1/1000th
3116 2011-05-30 22:38:41 <jgarzik> Xenland: sure, anytime someone submits a patch!
3117 2011-05-30 22:38:56 <Xenland> jgarzik: is it broken?
3118 2011-05-30 22:39:10 <jgarzik> Xenland: which patch?
3119 2011-05-30 22:39:18 <ArtForz> so we're just ignoring sse now?
3120 2011-05-30 22:39:18 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3121 2011-05-30 22:39:40 <Xenland> what is a patch?
3122 2011-05-30 22:40:06 <mrb_> ArtForz: run this js code on a CPU with roughly twice the MHz and 4x the cores and that's 111 kHash/s
3123 2011-05-30 22:40:07 <Xenland> is that like a branch?
3124 2011-05-30 22:40:16 <ArtForz> mrb_: multithreaded js?
3125 2011-05-30 22:40:18 <darbsllim> I feel like I'm in the middle of an argument...but I can't tell.
3126 2011-05-30 22:40:22 <mrb_> 6 cores 166 kHash/s
3127 2011-05-30 22:40:28 <ArtForz> this sounds like the worst. idea. ever.
3128 2011-05-30 22:40:32 <mrb_> last time I checked 16 Mh / 166 kH = 100x not 1000x
3129 2011-05-30 22:40:37 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|Sleep
3130 2011-05-30 22:40:44 <mrb_> of course it is a terrible idea.
3131 2011-05-30 22:40:51 <mrb_> but. still. not. 1000x.
3132 2011-05-30 22:41:21 <ArtForz> and nobody. gives. a. fuck.
3133 2011-05-30 22:41:23 <mrb_> let me repeat one last time: js mining is the worst idea ever.
3134 2011-05-30 22:41:48 <edcba> java mining is better
3135 2011-05-30 22:41:53 <ArtForz> yup
3136 2011-05-30 22:41:58 <edcba> dunno about c#
3137 2011-05-30 22:41:58 <ArtForz> by an order of magnitude
3138 2011-05-30 22:42:01 <mrb_> ArtForz: so you give up teaching people how to do proper perf estimation?
3139 2011-05-30 22:42:10 <ArtForz> mrb_: whats the point
3140 2011-05-30 22:42:25 <dmh> im making a C# client but i dont know what im doing so it will probably suck
3141 2011-05-30 22:42:30 <edcba> it's quite straightforward to do perf estimation :)
3142 2011-05-30 22:42:31 <ArtForz> java miners can get up to quite a large % of the C version
3143 2011-05-30 22:42:41 <ArtForz> yes "way too slow to bother, next"
3144 2011-05-30 22:42:55 samfisher has joined
3145 2011-05-30 22:43:06 <pwrcycle> http://pool.cloakvpn.com is up
3146 2011-05-30 22:43:16 <pwrcycle> Xenland: http://pool.cloakvpn.com :)
3147 2011-05-30 22:43:16 <mrb_> the point: demonstrating a little exercise to be able to do perf estimations within an order of magnitude.
3148 2011-05-30 22:43:23 ezl has joined
3149 2011-05-30 22:43:26 <samfisher> if i start the 64 bit ( i have 64 os) i get just bitcoin server starting
3150 2011-05-30 22:43:33 <samfisher> that is ./bitcoin &
3151 2011-05-30 22:43:39 <dmh> coing
3152 2011-05-30 22:43:39 <edcba> dmh: just test how many sha you can do by seconds
3153 2011-05-30 22:43:47 <samfisher> no GUI, no nothing
3154 2011-05-30 22:43:49 <darbsllim> pwrcycle nice hopefully it works
3155 2011-05-30 22:43:50 <edcba> it gives you upper limit
3156 2011-05-30 22:43:56 <darbsllim> pwrcycle post on the boards ask for testers
3157 2011-05-30 22:44:07 <pwrcycle> darbsllim: btw, i gave you that rating.
3158 2011-05-30 22:44:07 <ArtForz> mrb_: you didnt estimate anything
3159 2011-05-30 22:44:13 <jgarzik> ArtForz: JFYI, we removed -4way code from bitcoin (if that's what you're referring to, WRT sse)
3160 2011-05-30 22:44:14 <pwrcycle> i posted just now.
3161 2011-05-30 22:44:15 <phantomcircuit> samfisher, ubuntu?
3162 2011-05-30 22:44:16 <darbsllim> pwrcycle thanks
3163 2011-05-30 22:44:18 <mrb_> I showed that somenone's estimation was way off
3164 2011-05-30 22:44:26 <samfisher> phantomcircuit: yes
3165 2011-05-30 22:44:34 <ArtForz> you ran a benchmark to *disprove* a estimate
3166 2011-05-30 22:44:39 <phantomcircuit> samfisher, yeah the gui is broken, try using spesmilo
3167 2011-05-30 22:44:43 <mrb_> yep
3168 2011-05-30 22:44:59 <ArtForz> by the same reasoning, I can estimate the length of an object to 1/20 mm.
3169 2011-05-30 22:45:07 <ArtForz> using calipers. duh.
3170 2011-05-30 22:45:11 <mrb_> imagine someone tell syou that PCIe x16 is "100 times" faster than x1
3171 2011-05-30 22:45:15 <mrb_> you let this slip?
3172 2011-05-30 22:45:22 bk128 has joined
3173 2011-05-30 22:45:36 <ArtForz> nope
3174 2011-05-30 22:45:40 <samfisher> phantomcircuit: spesmilo?
3175 2011-05-30 22:45:43 <mrb_> no you correct that person explaining him it is 16x faster
3176 2011-05-30 22:45:46 <mrb_> same thing
3177 2011-05-30 22:46:01 <samfisher> phantomcircuit: bitcoind getbalance shows me 0
3178 2011-05-30 22:46:02 <ArtForz> but if someone says PCIe x1 is "1000x faster than 8 bit ISA" ... why not?
3179 2011-05-30 22:46:05 <mrb_> perf optimizations / estimations plays an important role in my job
3180 2011-05-30 22:46:17 <phantomcircuit> samfisher, spesmilo is an rpc gui in python
3181 2011-05-30 22:46:23 <edcba> nothing better than real measurements
3182 2011-05-30 22:46:36 <ArtForz> even though technically it's only 250x or so
3183 2011-05-30 22:46:52 <mrb_> and I like explaining people how to get better at this
3184 2011-05-30 22:47:15 <Xenland> pwrcycle: checking it out right meow
3185 2011-05-30 22:47:55 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
3186 2011-05-30 22:47:57 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
3187 2011-05-30 22:48:23 <samfisher> phantomcircuit: how can i use bitcoind?
3188 2011-05-30 22:48:32 <samfisher> to show me all my addresses?
3189 2011-05-30 22:48:58 <ArtForz> well, decently accurate estimates are useful
3190 2011-05-30 22:49:21 <ArtForz> I just don't bother if theyre so far beyond the range of "reasonable" that it wont matter either way
3191 2011-05-30 22:49:33 <sacarlson> samfisher: bitcoind listaccounts I think or bitcoind getnewaddress
3192 2011-05-30 22:49:36 <pwrcycle> oo, just found a bug, brb
3193 2011-05-30 22:50:35 <samfisher> sacarlson: what about getbalance?
3194 2011-05-30 22:50:50 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
3195 2011-05-30 22:50:59 <sacarlson> samfisher: bitcoind getinfo will show balance
3196 2011-05-30 22:51:29 <sacarlson> bitcoind -? or bitcoind -help
3197 2011-05-30 22:51:43 <ArtForz> in case of something like die area and speed for various asic impls, reasonable estimates have a place, but if it's between "orders of magnitude too slow to be useful" and "orders of magnitude too slow to be useful" ... I just can't bring myself to care
3198 2011-05-30 22:53:40 dubious has joined
3199 2011-05-30 22:53:58 <ArtForz> wasting time on accurate estimates and doing tests to confirm makes sense where they are needed. when they're not... wing it.
3200 2011-05-30 22:54:01 zofo has joined
3201 2011-05-30 22:54:18 fabianhjr has joined
3202 2011-05-30 22:54:48 <fabianhjr> MagicalTux, after withdrawing into LR, I got a reference code, what is it?
3203 2011-05-30 22:54:52 <fabianhjr> Hi everyone!
3204 2011-05-30 22:54:57 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3205 2011-05-30 22:55:31 <MagicalTux> fabianhjr: it's a tracking code that can be used if your funds are not there after a few hours to contact the support
3206 2011-05-30 22:55:49 <MagicalTux> because LR api sucks and sometimes doesn't work right, we added a tracking code :)
3207 2011-05-30 22:55:58 <fabianhjr> Oh, ok. They are not there. xD
3208 2011-05-30 22:56:06 <MagicalTux> wait a few hours first :)
3209 2011-05-30 22:56:19 <fabianhjr> I waited a whole day.
3210 2011-05-30 22:56:27 <fabianhjr> 05/30/11 02:03
3211 2011-05-30 22:56:39 <fabianhjr> Oh, well, I waited from yesterday night to todays afternoon
3212 2011-05-30 22:56:45 <MagicalTux> look my pm
3213 2011-05-30 22:56:53 <MagicalTux> it was processed
3214 2011-05-30 22:59:35 RBecker has joined
3215 2011-05-30 23:00:28 <pwrcycle> Xenland: setup
3216 2011-05-30 23:00:36 <pwrcycle> still have to work out a bug.
3217 2011-05-30 23:01:41 <Xenland> Is there a way to get my login information back or do i just sign up again?
3218 2011-05-30 23:02:56 <ro3l> hmm... making mtgox bot... first function: emergency cancel all orders
3219 2011-05-30 23:03:26 <BlueMatt> MagicalTux: if you have the time, Id like to get that list of nodes script ported for dnsseeds so that dnsseeds can be enabled by default in 0.4.0 so that these ridiculous bootstrap times go away by then
3220 2011-05-30 23:04:24 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, list of nodes script?
3221 2011-05-30 23:04:37 Xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3222 2011-05-30 23:05:49 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: MagicalTux has a simple half node which logs nodes it knows about and tries to connect to all known nodes by passing through the network...I dont feel like writing one so I just want him to send me his, so that I can hack it up a bit to store the list of nodes which accept incoming connections in a mysql db for pdns to pick up as a dnsseed
3223 2011-05-30 23:06:03 <BlueMatt> but it appears he is much to busy to email it to me...
3224 2011-05-30 23:06:21 <diki> yo xen
3225 2011-05-30 23:06:27 <diki> how is the front end going?>
3226 2011-05-30 23:06:39 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, eh i can hack my python client to do that real quickly
3227 2011-05-30 23:06:42 <MagicalTux> BlueMatt: I need to adapt it first
3228 2011-05-30 23:06:54 <BlueMatt> MagicalTux: I can do the adapting, I just want a basic half-node
3229 2011-05-30 23:07:04 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: meh, if you feel like it please do
3230 2011-05-30 23:07:06 <MagicalTux> it's not even a standalone thing
3231 2011-05-30 23:07:22 <BlueMatt> doesnt matter to me, just has to work...but whatever
3232 2011-05-30 23:07:57 lumos has joined
3233 2011-05-30 23:08:13 <MagicalTux> mh
3234 2011-05-30 23:08:19 lumos is now known as sixyearolds
3235 2011-05-30 23:14:22 <fabianhjr> MagicalTux: I am having trouble with decimal places when buying/selling BTC.
3236 2011-05-30 23:14:33 [DusT] has joined
3237 2011-05-30 23:14:39 <fabianhjr> I tried to convert about 80 USD into BTC and I got a remainder of 3.x USD.
3238 2011-05-30 23:14:47 <fabianhjr> It doesn't allow me to buy a fraction. :/
3239 2011-05-30 23:14:56 <MagicalTux> fabianhjr: is that all you ahve on your mtgox account ?
3240 2011-05-30 23:15:01 <sixyearolds> fractional reservez r illegal
3241 2011-05-30 23:15:04 <MagicalTux> if yes, just put a bigger bid, then cancel the remaining
3242 2011-05-30 23:15:19 <fabianhjr> I put a 100 BTC bid and canceled.
3243 2011-05-30 23:15:32 <fabianhjr> I always do it like that to avoid counting to the last decimal place. :P
3244 2011-05-30 23:15:33 maqr has joined
3245 2011-05-30 23:15:34 <lfm> bluematt dou you think it would be hard to change the thing where bitcoin figures out its outside ip number to also figure out if incomming is enabled?
3246 2011-05-30 23:16:46 Teslah has joined
3247 2011-05-30 23:17:34 bittrader has quit ()
3248 2011-05-30 23:17:48 glicth-mod has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3249 2011-05-30 23:18:05 cenuij has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3250 2011-05-30 23:18:06 <BlueMatt> lfm: if you mean dont advertise until you know you have incoming, great...but how do you know if incoming works until you've gotten an incoming connections, and how do you try to get an incoming connection w/o advertising via irc/etc?
3251 2011-05-30 23:18:47 <lfm> bluematt query a web site, the same way bitcoin figures out its outside ip address
3252 2011-05-30 23:19:17 <lfm> just to see if the port is open
3253 2011-05-30 23:19:21 Cusipzzz has joined
3254 2011-05-30 23:20:21 <BlueMatt> lfm: meh, you could do that...but you get even more complaints about how its no longer decentralized...
3255 2011-05-30 23:20:35 <BlueMatt> (not that irc isnt really but you get the point)
3256 2011-05-30 23:20:56 glicth-mod has joined
3257 2011-05-30 23:21:08 <BlueMatt> also, then even nodes which do not accept incoming connections on purpose (and are poorly set up) ping a server which could be a privacy concern
3258 2011-05-30 23:21:40 <BlueMatt> if all goes well, dnsseed could replace irc if the seeds properly scan through the network and get a good list of nodes from pex
3259 2011-05-30 23:21:48 <lfm> dont they ping the server for the ip address already?
3260 2011-05-30 23:21:55 <BlueMatt> just the irc server
3261 2011-05-30 23:22:10 <BlueMatt> (and potentially whatismyip or one of those)
3262 2011-05-30 23:22:14 <lfm> oh ok I thot it was a web server
3263 2011-05-30 23:22:29 <lfm> ya whatsmyip
3264 2011-05-30 23:22:31 <BlueMatt> I think it does as a secondary but Im not sure if it does by default or just as a fallback
3265 2011-05-30 23:22:39 <lfm> oic
3266 2011-05-30 23:22:57 <BlueMatt> but that is a bit different as it could be any app fetching ip, but if you say, is my port 8333 open, you know instantly that that person is running bitcoin
3267 2011-05-30 23:23:27 <BlueMatt> (again not that that is not hard to find out other ways, but privacy and all that crap...)
3268 2011-05-30 23:23:30 <lfm> ya true
3269 2011-05-30 23:23:55 <BlueMatt> idiots freak out about that kind of crap, and as most people tend to be idiots...well you get the point
3270 2011-05-30 23:24:34 <lfm> seems like if they get on the irc chan they will start getting probes at 8333 a lot! grin
3271 2011-05-30 23:25:03 <BlueMatt> yep, anyway it would work, but dnsseed is a simpler solution and as always KISS
3272 2011-05-30 23:26:03 <lfm> ok, just thot it might work but you're right about your concerns so shelv it for now at least
3273 2011-05-30 23:26:11 maqr has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
3274 2011-05-30 23:26:18 JRWR has joined
3275 2011-05-30 23:26:18 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
3276 2011-05-30 23:26:18 JRWR has joined
3277 2011-05-30 23:28:09 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
3278 2011-05-30 23:28:09 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9,"low":8.25,"vol":17487,"buy":8.7501,"sell":8.8922,"last":8.7501}}
3279 2011-05-30 23:28:21 <BlueMatt> in any case, phantomcircuit if you want to hack up your half-node to traverse the network making connections to nodes and getting a list of nodes and then testing each one to see if it accepts incoming connections, and drops those in a db, that would be great ;)
3280 2011-05-30 23:29:20 <hybriz_> send my btc to mtgox 2 hours ago...still doesnt show up in my balance :(
3281 2011-05-30 23:29:30 <lfm> db or txt file or log file or whatever
3282 2011-05-30 23:29:55 <BlueMatt> db is better as it can then keep the list up to date
3283 2011-05-30 23:30:04 <BlueMatt> and plenty of dns servers can pull from dbs
3284 2011-05-30 23:30:22 <dmh> is there some way to get JSON responses from mtgox without having to poll it
3285 2011-05-30 23:30:30 <dmh> like an async callback im missing or something
3286 2011-05-30 23:30:31 <JRWR> a mysql DB that can be then given a public username for people to look at the database
3287 2011-05-30 23:30:43 cmykbo has joined
3288 2011-05-30 23:30:45 <JRWR> dwh: i dont think JSON supports Push type events
3289 2011-05-30 23:30:48 <BlueMatt> JRWR: why would you do that?
3290 2011-05-30 23:30:55 <dmh> oh, well then nevermind :d
3291 2011-05-30 23:31:09 <BlueMatt> maybe a list of nodes pullable, but giving them access to your db...even read only...bad idea
3292 2011-05-30 23:31:09 <dmh> guess i'll just timestamp and have a refresh button
3293 2011-05-30 23:32:12 * JRWR relizes how awful that idea is, and goes back to eating his chineese
3294 2011-05-30 23:32:26 samfisher has quit (Quit: exit error code 434)
3295 2011-05-30 23:32:41 <BlueMatt> hey, I want Chinese...Im hungry
3296 2011-05-30 23:33:13 <dmh> email me some
3297 2011-05-30 23:34:20 andrew12 has quit (Quit: It works!)
3298 2011-05-30 23:34:20 <JRWR> BlueMatt your a op of bitcoin-dev, i bet you have a metric ton of BTC
3299 2011-05-30 23:34:55 ZOP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3300 2011-05-30 23:34:57 <BlueMatt> JRWR: sadly not...Im actually relatively recent to the community (I think I came here in...feb?)
3301 2011-05-30 23:35:13 <JRWR> Ah
3302 2011-05-30 23:35:19 bk128 has joined
3303 2011-05-30 23:35:20 <JRWR> same here, Last month
3304 2011-05-30 23:35:20 <zofo> can someone make a decent bitcoin trading platform?
3305 2011-05-30 23:35:36 <JRWR> zofo: are you a programmer by any chance
3306 2011-05-30 23:35:39 <BlueMatt> Im just op because Im always on irc and I do a pretty large amount of dev work on bitcoin client
3307 2011-05-30 23:36:41 Jkessler has joined
3308 2011-05-30 23:36:54 <dmh> zofo: im wedging it into ninjatrader
3309 2011-05-30 23:37:01 <dmh> for analysis only so far
3310 2011-05-30 23:37:04 <cornfeed> !seen jgarzik
3311 2011-05-30 23:37:31 <JRWR> the only good thing im good at is my supervisor skills,
3312 2011-05-30 23:37:34 <BlueMatt> ;;seen jgarzik
3313 2011-05-30 23:37:35 <gribble> jgarzik was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 53 minutes and 21 seconds ago: <jgarzik> ArtForz: JFYI, we removed -4way code from bitcoin (if that's what you're referring to, WRT sse)
3314 2011-05-30 23:37:47 <cornfeed> thx
3315 2011-05-30 23:38:17 <JRWR> ;;seen gribble
3316 2011-05-30 23:38:17 <gribble> I have not seen gribble.
3317 2011-05-30 23:38:30 <JRWR> someone get gribble a mirror!
3318 2011-05-30 23:38:37 <BlueMatt> funny how many people try that when they discover the seen command ;P
3319 2011-05-30 23:38:44 <sacarlson> zofo: what do you want in a trading platform?
3320 2011-05-30 23:38:48 <BlueMatt> my usual response: "at least hes not self aware"
3321 2011-05-30 23:39:30 <JRWR> what we really need is a bitbay
3322 2011-05-30 23:39:45 <JRWR> a ebay clone fot BTC
3323 2011-05-30 23:40:25 <BlueMatt> we have one
3324 2011-05-30 23:40:25 <dmh> some in the works already?
3325 2011-05-30 23:40:31 <BlueMatt> biddingpond iirc
3326 2011-05-30 23:41:09 eoss has joined
3327 2011-05-30 23:41:25 sacarlson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3328 2011-05-30 23:41:51 * JRWR wonders when someone ports Bitcoin to IOS
3329 2011-05-30 23:42:10 <jgarzik> cornfeed: yes?
3330 2011-05-30 23:43:06 <diki> porting it to symbian might be also possible
3331 2011-05-30 23:43:20 cornfeed has left ("When I leave, come together like butt cheeks")
3332 2011-05-30 23:43:54 <JRWR> diki: or even mobile java
3333 2011-05-30 23:44:00 <BlueMatt> JRWR: there is an app which runs bitcoind in the background and then connects to it via rpc, but it was (obviously rejected from the app store)
3334 2011-05-30 23:44:07 <diki> jgarzik: the time a block was found in mysql is off by a few seconds. How can i store the exact time the block was found?
3335 2011-05-30 23:44:11 cornfeed has joined
3336 2011-05-30 23:44:19 <BlueMatt> JRWR: there is bitcoinj and hence a bitcoin android port
3337 2011-05-30 23:44:27 <JRWR> cool
3338 2011-05-30 23:44:28 <cornfeed> sorry about that, my client started acting crazy
3339 2011-05-30 23:44:29 <BlueMatt> diki: and bitcoin has been ported to symbian
3340 2011-05-30 23:44:42 <BlueMatt> (or at least compiled on)
3341 2011-05-30 23:44:46 * JRWR wonders when a proper JS miner will come out
3342 2011-05-30 23:44:59 <BlueMatt> JRWR: read scrollback...
3343 2011-05-30 23:45:02 <cornfeed> jgarzik, i have been trying to compile pushpool for half the day
3344 2011-05-30 23:45:13 <diki> <@BlueMatt> diki: and bitcoin has been ported to symbian<- seriously?
3345 2011-05-30 23:45:13 <diki> lnik?
3346 2011-05-30 23:45:18 <diki> *link
3347 2011-05-30 23:45:40 <JRWR> and BlueMatt: my scroll back doesnt go that far :(
3348 2011-05-30 23:45:40 <cornfeed> jgarzik: gentoo host
3349 2011-05-30 23:46:05 <BlueMatt> JRWR: there is a log in the topic
3350 2011-05-30 23:46:06 <diki> it takes a bit time cornfeed but it compiles
3351 2011-05-30 23:46:12 <diki> just make sure you use the tarball in the thread
3352 2011-05-30 23:46:30 <BlueMatt> diki: hm, cant seem to find it...there was a forum thread with a small patch and instructions to compile for symbian iirc
3353 2011-05-30 23:46:41 <BlueMatt> like bitcoind then you access it via cli or smth
3354 2011-05-30 23:46:47 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3355 2011-05-30 23:47:42 sacarlson has joined
3356 2011-05-30 23:48:29 <JRWR> BlueMatt: looks for the past 4 days worth of logs, Nothing on Javascript / JS
3357 2011-05-30 23:48:49 molecular has joined
3358 2011-05-30 23:48:54 <cornfeed> what do other pools run? puddingpops?
3359 2011-05-30 23:48:55 <BlueMatt> that was late yesterday...or earlier today depending on your timezone
3360 2011-05-30 23:48:56 <zofo> guys: this guy as the right idea... just put it into a platform using the web http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6019.0
3361 2011-05-30 23:49:02 Kiba has joined
3362 2011-05-30 23:49:10 ro3l has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3363 2011-05-30 23:49:15 <BlueMatt> JRWR: look for mrb_'s discussions
3364 2011-05-30 23:49:16 <zofo> watch bitcoin go from $10 to 100 in a month
3365 2011-05-30 23:49:41 <zofo> trading on mtgox just bites...
3366 2011-05-30 23:49:49 <zofo> literally
3367 2011-05-30 23:50:47 <diki> depends on the place where you were bitten
3368 2011-05-30 23:50:57 <ar4s> zofo: what would you change, exactly?
3369 2011-05-30 23:51:03 <diki> if it's down there, i have to pray for your children
3370 2011-05-30 23:51:34 Kiba has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3371 2011-05-30 23:51:44 <zofo> ar4s: real time trading, buy vs sells vs volume
3372 2011-05-30 23:51:46 bk128 has joined
3373 2011-05-30 23:51:48 bk128 has quit (Changing host)
3374 2011-05-30 23:51:48 bk128 has joined
3375 2011-05-30 23:51:57 <zofo> in real time
3376 2011-05-30 23:52:07 Kiba has joined
3377 2011-05-30 23:52:24 <dmh> what do you think volume is
3378 2011-05-30 23:52:35 <dmh> just curious
3379 2011-05-30 23:52:49 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
3380 2011-05-30 23:52:50 <diki> the volume is +90dB
3381 2011-05-30 23:52:50 <gribble> Current Blocks: 127715 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 1308 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 18 hours, 45 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 508026.74490792
3382 2011-05-30 23:52:58 <zofo> a trade platform that can go to many different world 'money'
3383 2011-05-30 23:53:17 <zofo> kinda a tall order... but needs to be done
3384 2011-05-30 23:53:17 <dmh> double lol
3385 2011-05-30 23:53:59 <dmh> dont worry, surely someone will port globex to support bitcoin overnight
3386 2011-05-30 23:54:02 <zofo> this is possible only if some 'bank' would allow it like thomas cook
3387 2011-05-30 23:54:06 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3388 2011-05-30 23:54:11 <zofo> globex?
3389 2011-05-30 23:54:18 <dmh> nm..
3390 2011-05-30 23:54:45 <zofo> are they something bigger than thomas cook?
3391 2011-05-30 23:54:47 <dmh> large futures exchange, bad joke
3392 2011-05-30 23:54:55 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3393 2011-05-30 23:55:02 <zofo> not talking futures... talking now
3394 2011-05-30 23:55:09 <zofo> --++
3395 2011-05-30 23:55:13 <dmh> ugh man not future, futures
3396 2011-05-30 23:55:34 <dmh> as in futures contract :p
3397 2011-05-30 23:55:38 <dmh> anyway
3398 2011-05-30 23:55:40 <dmh> point is
3399 2011-05-30 23:55:45 <zofo> i get it dude... i am a stock trader..
3400 2011-05-30 23:55:59 <zofo> you're obviously a prog?
3401 2011-05-30 23:56:04 <dmh> ok so you're a stock trader who doesn't know futures instrument
3402 2011-05-30 23:56:16 <dmh> im a trader
3403 2011-05-30 23:56:25 <dmh> but
3404 2011-05-30 23:56:27 <dmh> what im getting to is
3405 2011-05-30 23:56:40 <dmh> yes we all agree
3406 2011-05-30 23:56:51 <dmh> the current barrier of exchanging funds to btc sucks
3407 2011-05-30 23:57:08 <dmh> but thats the given nature of it currently
3408 2011-05-30 23:57:58 <zofo> trader of oil futures?
3409 2011-05-30 23:58:02 karnac has joined
3410 2011-05-30 23:58:15 <dmh> no dont trade CL much
3411 2011-05-30 23:58:23 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3412 2011-05-30 23:58:26 <zofo> that's different than $ or 'neg instruments' yea
3413 2011-05-30 23:58:43 <zofo> what is a future 'neg instruments'?!
3414 2011-05-30 23:58:43 <dmh> there are futures available for everything man :p
3415 2011-05-30 23:58:48 <zofo> ok
3416 2011-05-30 23:58:52 <zofo> if you say so
3417 2011-05-30 23:58:57 * diki has a cat btw
3418 2011-05-30 23:59:05 <zofo> how long you been doing this?
3419 2011-05-30 23:59:20 <dmh> not very long
3420 2011-05-30 23:59:32 <dmh> taking seriously maybe a year
3421 2011-05-30 23:59:34 <dmh> started in forex
3422 2011-05-30 23:59:49 <dmh> but now i work in the industry
3423 2011-05-30 23:59:54 KingMartin has joined