1 2011-06-01 00:00:00 <gmaxwell> "How big can a DNS TXT record be again?"
2 2011-06-01 00:00:19 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: certainly less than 512 bytes
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5 2011-06-01 00:01:39 MagicalTux is now known as zz_MagicalTux
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15 2011-06-01 00:03:42 <diki> does it really take so long for bitcoind to compile?
16 2011-06-01 00:03:46 zz_MagicalTux is now known as MT`AwAy
17 2011-06-01 00:03:46 <diki> been a few minutes already
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21 2011-06-01 00:04:25 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: why do you want to know? and though there is a standard, the real-world value depends on the dns resolver
22 2011-06-01 00:07:03 <diki> will program's compiling speed be increased if i removed any coin generation code?
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24 2011-06-01 00:07:38 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I was indirectly suggesting the crazy idea of bootstrapping completely out of DNS. You were supposted to catch this and laugh at how silly it was. :) Sorry for the opaque joke.
25 2011-06-01 00:09:39 MT`AwAy is now known as zz_MT`AwAy
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29 2011-06-01 00:11:22 <devrandom1> BlueMatt: hi
30 2011-06-01 00:11:29 BlueMatt has joined
31 2011-06-01 00:11:30 <sipa> gmaxwell: but you can bootstrap entirely out of DNS...
32 2011-06-01 00:11:31 <devrandom1> got sigs from sipa? was there a discrepancy?
33 2011-06-01 00:11:46 <sipa> devrandom1: my fault, used wrong yml file
34 2011-06-01 00:12:08 <gmaxwell> sipa: well, I also ment pulling the blockchain that way too. ;) And if you tell me thats already being done I'll run screaming.
35 2011-06-01 00:12:10 <devrandom1> ah, ok
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40 2011-06-01 00:13:49 <BlueMatt> devrandom1: sorry, internet troubles, hi
41 2011-06-01 00:14:03 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: actually, bootstrapping completely out of dns is quite ideal
42 2011-06-01 00:14:14 <BlueMatt> though obviously not using TXT records
43 2011-06-01 00:14:16 Diablo-D3 has joined
44 2011-06-01 00:16:00 <BlueMatt> where is ArtForz when you need him?
45 2011-06-01 00:16:18 <BlueMatt> also, anyone else in germany unable to connect to anything on he's backbone?
46 2011-06-01 00:17:14 <sipa> i can't access bitcoin.org
47 2011-06-01 00:17:34 <sipa> hmm, that works, but the forum is down?
48 2011-06-01 00:18:05 <BlueMatt> maybe Im going insane, but I think someone just tripped on a cable...
49 2011-06-01 00:18:41 <[Tycho]> No, the forum works.
50 2011-06-01 00:19:30 <sipa> hmms, seems forum.bitcoin.org doesn't resolve here :s
51 2011-06-01 00:19:45 <BlueMatt> Im just ahead of you, I cant ping its dns servers
52 2011-06-01 00:19:50 <BlueMatt> dns1.louhi.net. 172800 IN A 77.240.24.10
53 2011-06-01 00:19:50 <BlueMatt> dns2.louhi.net. 172800 IN A 77.240.24.11
54 2011-06-01 00:19:50 <BlueMatt> dns3.louhi.net. 172800 IN A 77.240.22.15
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61 2011-06-01 00:22:33 <[Tycho]> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GiQEECNcZM
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63 2011-06-01 00:22:50 <BlueMatt> it may very well just be me...but it would seem large sections of the internet are unavailable atm...
64 2011-06-01 00:23:42 <alystair> what's the minimum time required to validate a transaction?
65 2011-06-01 00:23:57 <BlueMatt> 0.05022 msec
66 2011-06-01 00:24:23 <alystair> under what conditions is that? is that only by one 3rd party or more?
67 2011-06-01 00:25:02 zz_MT`AwAy is now known as MT`AwAy
68 2011-06-01 00:25:14 <BlueMatt> minimum time is pretty much nothing...if you send a tx and one of your peers happens to be a miner and they find a block on the first hash after the next getwork, then your tx is confirmed pretty much instantly
69 2011-06-01 00:25:30 <alystair> lol find a block
70 2011-06-01 00:25:44 <alystair> I'm just trying to figure out how ideal it is for merchants
71 2011-06-01 00:26:19 <alystair> and end user transactions where you need a fast (4sec?) validation
72 2011-06-01 00:26:30 ArtForz has joined
73 2011-06-01 00:26:49 <alystair> also is the whole chain required to do those calculations or just the latest valid group
74 2011-06-01 00:26:52 <alystair> or block
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76 2011-06-01 00:27:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: what do you get when you traceroute to yourself from zurich, frankfurt, and fremont on the he lg: http://64.71.139.108/ ?
77 2011-06-01 00:27:44 <BlueMatt> ie what kind of ping times?
78 2011-06-01 00:28:04 <BlueMatt> ...or maybe Im just insane
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82 2011-06-01 00:29:10 <alystair> isn't it more rational for gribble to report in Mhps instead of Khps these days?
83 2011-06-01 00:31:08 <BlueMatt> and...issues miraculously dissapear...I very much believe Im going insane...
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89 2011-06-01 00:33:45 <alystair> http://bitcoin.it is down :S
90 2011-06-01 00:34:10 <luke-jr> curious⦠at some point my CPU mining speed halved :\
91 2011-06-01 00:36:03 <luke-jr> regardless of algorithm
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95 2011-06-01 00:42:49 <gjs278> nfs client is the worst thing in the world
96 2011-06-01 00:42:52 <gjs278> there's no plugpull option
97 2011-06-01 00:42:55 <gjs278> it just hangs forever
98 2011-06-01 00:43:02 <gjs278> disconnect already come on
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108 2011-06-01 00:50:43 <pwrcycle> in pushpool's shares.log what are the different sections of the block?
109 2011-06-01 00:51:04 <pwrcycle> 1st 72char are the block you're working on. what is the rest?
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111 2011-06-01 00:54:57 <Mark_R> Hello everyone. I have a question. On May 17, I had Mt. Gox send me 1 BTC to the following address: http://blockexplorer.com/address/1MnDCCGGCzJtGBmfPMfJm3jVuhr1fmzXct. Well, it looks like it never made it to my wallet because I downloaded the block that transaction is located in and my client is not showing it as coming through. Here is a screenshot:http://i.imgur.com/wKcYf.jpg
112 2011-06-01 00:55:03 <Mark_R> Does anyone have any advice for me?
113 2011-06-01 00:55:32 diki has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
114 2011-06-01 00:56:18 <Mark_R> A user on the forms said to check that I have the private key to sign transactions for that address... how can I check that?
115 2011-06-01 00:56:42 sshack has joined
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117 2011-06-01 00:58:27 <gwillen> Mark_R: is the client you are looking at the same one that generated the address?
118 2011-06-01 00:58:41 <gwillen> because it appears that either the client is missing that block, or the client does not believe it owns that address
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122 2011-06-01 01:00:16 <Mark_R> gwillen: It may be possible, I have a laptop I have used to do some transactions with. Is it possible I could have generated the address with the client that is installed on my laptop?
123 2011-06-01 01:00:46 <gwillen> yes
124 2011-06-01 01:00:53 <gwillen> that seems very likely, given what you are observing
125 2011-06-01 01:01:03 <gwillen> have you tried having the laptop download the rest of the chain, to see if it thinks it has the btc?
126 2011-06-01 01:01:16 <gwillen> one machine or the other should have it
127 2011-06-01 01:01:32 <Mark_R> I would, but my laptop is at home.... I will try this when I get home. If it turns out that it can download that transaction, how do I "merge" the wallets?
128 2011-06-01 01:02:06 <gwillen> if you just want to use one of the machines, easiest way is just to have the other one send all its coins to the one you want to use
129 2011-06-01 01:02:21 <Mark_R> ahhh ok that makes good sense
130 2011-06-01 01:02:29 <gwillen> if you want to use both it's harder, because each client will periodically generate new addresses, and there's no easy way to keep them synchronized
131 2011-06-01 01:02:37 <Mark_R> Gwillen, thank you very much
132 2011-06-01 01:02:43 <gwillen> no problem Mark_R! :-)
133 2011-06-01 01:03:20 <Mark_R> gwillen one more question, how will I not run into a double spend problem?
134 2011-06-01 01:03:54 <gwillen> well, each machine is a separate wallet with separate coins in it
135 2011-06-01 01:04:02 <gwillen> as far as the network's concerned it's a separate person
136 2011-06-01 01:04:06 <Mark_R> yikes ok... I may have deleted that wallet
137 2011-06-01 01:04:07 <gwillen> once you send the coins from A to B, A won't have them anymore
138 2011-06-01 01:04:10 <gwillen> ooh
139 2011-06-01 01:04:12 <gwillen> that would not be good
140 2011-06-01 01:04:24 <gwillen> but if you only sent 1 as a test, you may be glad you tested first
141 2011-06-01 01:04:32 <Mark_R> i though I could just take a backup
142 2011-06-01 01:04:34 lulzplzkthx has left ()
143 2011-06-01 01:04:41 <gwillen> oh, well if you have a backup, you may be ok
144 2011-06-01 01:04:50 <gwillen> if you still have the old wallet.dat file
145 2011-06-01 01:04:52 <gwillen> that's what you need
146 2011-06-01 01:05:13 <gwillen> I suggest being very careful with wallet.dat files
147 2011-06-01 01:05:18 <Mark_R> ahhhh well, that may be gone... I have older revisions though?
148 2011-06-01 01:05:20 <gwillen> since they effectively have all your money in them ;-)
149 2011-06-01 01:05:30 <gwillen> well, the clients generate addresses before needing them
150 2011-06-01 01:05:39 <gwillen> so an older backup _could_ have the address you need
151 2011-06-01 01:05:44 <gwillen> you'd have to try restoring it and see
152 2011-06-01 01:05:58 <Mark_R> Well, I have a wallet here with about 500 coins in it. are those all good coins??
153 2011-06-01 01:06:02 EPiSKiNG has joined
154 2011-06-01 01:06:10 <Mark_R> i do not want to risk 500 coins for 1 bad one
155 2011-06-01 01:06:18 <gwillen> oh yeah, let me be clear
156 2011-06-01 01:06:23 <gwillen> do not restore an old wallet.dat over a current one
157 2011-06-01 01:06:28 kish has joined
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159 2011-06-01 01:06:34 <gwillen> do not ever delete or overwrite a wallet.dat
160 2011-06-01 01:06:38 <gwillen> that is not a good idea :-)
161 2011-06-01 01:06:49 <gwillen> so yes, your 500 coins are real
162 2011-06-01 01:06:53 <gwillen> and if you remove your wallet you will lose them
163 2011-06-01 01:06:54 <kish> hah
164 2011-06-01 01:07:15 <kish> i'm a bit concerned about the quality of the protocol
165 2011-06-01 01:07:30 <kish> has it been run over by a professional team of cryptographers?
166 2011-06-01 01:07:32 <kish> i assume not
167 2011-06-01 01:08:04 <Mark_R> Ok so what you are saying is that maybe I generated a wallet.dat with the laptop client, that generated the 1BTC address, then tried to load the same wallet.dat on my PC that did not generate the 1BTC address
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171 2011-06-01 01:17:23 <gwillen> Mark_R: hmmm, the wallet.dat is the thing that has all the addresses in it
172 2011-06-01 01:17:37 <gwillen> Mark_R: if you took the wallet.dat that received the coins, and copied it to a new machine, it ought to still have the coins, in theory
173 2011-06-01 01:17:57 <Diablo-D3> if he copies his wallet.dat out, and nukes .bitcoin, its the same thing
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191 2011-06-01 01:50:53 <bitcenter_> just closed my bitcoin client to make a copy of wallet.dat, and it doesn't run anymore, anyone got an idea what can cause this?
192 2011-06-01 01:50:54 <bitcenter_> EXCEPTION: N5boost16exception_detail10clone_implINS0_19error_info_injectorINS_15program_options14invalid_syntaxEEEEE
193 2011-06-01 01:50:59 <bitcenter_> unrecognized line in 'Lock table is out of available lock entries'
194 2011-06-01 01:51:03 <bitcenter_> C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\bitcoin.exe in AppInit()
195 2011-06-01 01:51:24 <gwillen> hmm, my client has just started saying "DB_RUNRECOVERY"
196 2011-06-01 01:51:28 <gwillen> how do I run recovery?
197 2011-06-01 01:51:35 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
198 2011-06-01 01:51:37 <gwillen> (I do have a backup if it comes to that)
199 2011-06-01 01:52:16 <sshack> gwillen: Just a thought. Is the timestamp on the backup after any previous transactions?
200 2011-06-01 01:52:25 <sshack> if so, seems like you'd be safe to use it.
201 2011-06-01 01:52:54 <gwillen> sshack: I don't know off the top of my head
202 2011-06-01 01:53:03 <gwillen> and I can't see the list of transactions
203 2011-06-01 01:53:06 <gwillen> since the client won't start
204 2011-06-01 01:53:06 <sshack> Well when did you last send money?
205 2011-06-01 01:53:11 <gwillen> I dunno :-)
206 2011-06-01 01:53:17 <sshack> Then check the file mtime.
207 2011-06-01 01:53:23 Netsniper has joined
208 2011-06-01 01:53:35 <gwillen> I mean, I can just try it and see
209 2011-06-01 01:53:42 <gwillen> I'm just curious, since it's telling me to 'run recovery'
210 2011-06-01 01:53:45 <kish> interesting faults
211 2011-06-01 01:53:47 <gwillen> whether there is actually a recovery that can be run
212 2011-06-01 01:54:02 <gwillen> and whether it's actually indicating wallet corruption
213 2011-06-01 01:54:06 <gwillen> or just like, the block database
214 2011-06-01 01:54:39 <devrandom> first, backup wallet.dat
215 2011-06-01 01:54:47 <sshack> I'd backup everything then start playing.
216 2011-06-01 01:54:48 <gwillen> devrandom: believe me, I have lots
217 2011-06-01 01:54:53 <gwillen> (of backups)
218 2011-06-01 01:55:01 <gwillen> (including one manual one from the moment after it gave me the error)
219 2011-06-01 01:55:15 <devrandom> you can try nuking .bitcoin and re-creating it with just the wallet.dat in it
220 2011-06-01 01:55:18 <devrandom> see if bitcoin starts
221 2011-06-01 01:55:24 <devrandom> if it does, then it's one of the others
222 2011-06-01 01:55:34 <devrandom> (that's corrupted)
223 2011-06-01 01:55:41 <gwillen> ok
224 2011-06-01 01:55:51 <devrandom> and it won't affect you (except having to wait for the blockchain to download)
225 2011-06-01 01:56:28 dmh has quit ()
226 2011-06-01 01:57:25 <bitcenter_> what does it even mean? "Lock table is out of available lock entries"
227 2011-06-01 01:58:17 <gwillen> devrandom: ok, it appears it was one of the others
228 2011-06-01 01:58:24 <gwillen> devrandom: so now I just have to wait forever ;-)
229 2011-06-01 01:58:25 <gwillen> devrandom: thanks!
230 2011-06-01 01:59:15 <sshack> Oh the wallet file is just a berkely db file.
231 2011-06-01 01:59:27 <gwillen> sshack: huh, really?
232 2011-06-01 01:59:44 <sshack> bitcThe lock table is presumably a fixed size. Lock enough times and it fills up.
233 2011-06-01 01:59:51 <sshack> gwillen: Really run file wallet.db
234 2011-06-01 02:00:00 <sshack> wallet.dat: Berkeley DB (Btree, version 9, native byte-order)
235 2011-06-01 02:00:14 <sshack> I would have thought sqlite, but no.
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245 2011-06-01 02:13:50 <lebish> how should params be formatted when sent via the json rpc interface?
246 2011-06-01 02:17:15 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
247 2011-06-01 02:20:17 dizzyd has joined
248 2011-06-01 02:20:59 <dizzyd> Hello allâ¦is there a definitive protocol spec for bitcoin somewhere? Google searches have turned up links to docs that are unavailable
249 2011-06-01 02:22:42 <johnnympereira5> does anyone know where i can get the hardware comparison guide... looks like the site is forbidden when i try to go to the site
250 2011-06-01 02:23:39 <darbsllim> johnnympereira5 just click cached as a quick fix
251 2011-06-01 02:23:45 <darbsllim> it'll show you a ghetto cached version
252 2011-06-01 02:24:33 <johnnympereira5> darbsllim oooo ok
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256 2011-06-01 02:27:19 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: pong
257 2011-06-01 02:27:29 <pwrcycle> BlueMatt: hi
258 2011-06-01 02:27:44 <pwrcycle> hi jgarzik
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262 2011-06-01 02:28:49 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: is there an explanation of what the different sections of the pushpool shares.log are anywhere?
263 2011-06-01 02:29:04 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok, got my little php script running: it fills a pdns server mysql database with a list of nodes which accept incoming connections...would you be willing to use it on the dnsseed?
264 2011-06-01 02:29:40 simkiss has quit (Quit: simkiss)
265 2011-06-01 02:29:52 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: like the first 72char are the block. and the last section is consistent. so the variable part is in the middle. what are the sections called?
266 2011-06-01 02:31:03 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the basic requirements to be on the compiled-in list are (a) trusted community member and (b) stable hosting
267 2011-06-01 02:31:15 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you are clearly (a), so if you have (b), then sure
268 2011-06-01 02:31:20 ar4s is now known as ar4s_
269 2011-06-01 02:31:34 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: source code is only reference right now
270 2011-06-01 02:31:38 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: no, no, the point of the script is to fill dnsseeds with valid nodes from the network
271 2011-06-01 02:31:47 <BlueMatt> (I dont have a static ip node anywhere :()
272 2011-06-01 02:31:59 <BlueMatt> I was asking if you want to run the script on your dns server
273 2011-06-01 02:32:13 <BlueMatt> (I could run it on mine, but it would be much too slow on home-dsl)
274 2011-06-01 02:32:52 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I don't have a DNS server... :) bitseed.xf2.org is on dnspark's DDoS-protected servers.
275 2011-06-01 02:33:16 <BlueMatt> ah...shame...I suppose Ill ask around and see if anyone can spot me a vps
276 2011-06-01 02:33:43 <dizzyd> why not just use a free amazon micro instance?
277 2011-06-01 02:33:52 <BlueMatt> because that expires after a year?
278 2011-06-01 02:33:52 <dizzyd> that should have plenty o power for a lookup service
279 2011-06-01 02:34:43 <dizzyd> i have no response to your clear logic :)
280 2011-06-01 02:34:57 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: for purposes of shares in a round, is the first 72char the exact spot i would need to check to split between all contributers?
281 2011-06-01 02:35:29 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: I think you're terribly confused about the whole process
282 2011-06-01 02:35:52 Forexmasterja_mo has joined
283 2011-06-01 02:35:52 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: I have no idea what first 72char is, or what that means
284 2011-06-01 02:36:04 <pwrcycle> yes, the more i learn the more questions i have
285 2011-06-01 02:36:26 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: there is a text share log, whitespace-separated, and then an optional SQL database share log. Each share is difficulty-1, unless you are running a full target pool.
286 2011-06-01 02:36:53 <pwrcycle> ok, here's the question behind the question... how do you know which contributers contributed to each block?
287 2011-06-01 02:37:08 <jgarzik> username
288 2011-06-01 02:37:10 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: yeah, i have a perl script already to split the diff fields.
289 2011-06-01 02:37:28 ar4s_ has quit (Quit: bye)
290 2011-06-01 02:37:40 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: how do you know where one block/round ends and another begins?
291 2011-06-01 02:38:06 fxmaster has joined
292 2011-06-01 02:38:58 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: just from my miners logs, it seems each round where they found 2or more shares starts with a 72character key to the block.
293 2011-06-01 02:39:01 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
294 2011-06-01 02:39:35 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: rather, my miners in my pushpool shares.log
295 2011-06-01 02:39:54 ar4s has joined
296 2011-06-01 02:40:18 Forexmasterja_mo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
297 2011-06-01 02:41:27 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
298 2011-06-01 02:41:43 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
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301 2011-06-01 02:41:57 <pwrcycle> also, if i point pushpool at slush's pool, would it hash correctly?
302 2011-06-01 02:42:08 num1-mac has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
303 2011-06-01 02:42:12 <pwrcycle> can you chain pushpools?
304 2011-06-01 02:42:14 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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312 2011-06-01 02:54:07 BlueMatt has joined
313 2011-06-01 02:54:23 <BlueMatt> alright, well gnight all...if anyone wnats to hook me up with some vps...use ;;later tell
314 2011-06-01 02:55:26 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: cheers!
315 2011-06-01 02:58:33 Beremat has joined
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317 2011-06-01 03:03:02 darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
318 2011-06-01 03:04:30 marlowe has joined
319 2011-06-01 03:05:11 <gjs278> [Tycho]: I believe your bitcoind for the site crashed
320 2011-06-01 03:06:36 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
321 2011-06-01 03:09:30 dizzyd has joined
322 2011-06-01 03:10:53 <bitcenter_> is there any functional portable bitcoin client available?
323 2011-06-01 03:11:05 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
324 2011-06-01 03:11:32 <dizzyd> bitcenter_: define portable? default client runs on osx, linux and win32
325 2011-06-01 03:13:02 AntiVigilante has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
326 2011-06-01 03:13:05 <bitcenter_> windows would be enough, I mean one that doesn't require any installation, that I could for example hold on an encrypted usb drive, together with wallet.dat all the blockchain data
327 2011-06-01 03:13:38 <dizzyd> ah, i don't know enough on windows client to answer that
328 2011-06-01 03:14:42 <TbbW> i carry a usb drive with some miners on it for windows wich works fine starting with a .bat file
329 2011-06-01 03:14:58 <TbbW> also have the linux python miner :)
330 2011-06-01 03:14:58 glicth-mod has joined
331 2011-06-01 03:15:47 <jgarzik> does the python miner not work under windows?
332 2011-06-01 03:15:57 <gjs278> it does
333 2011-06-01 03:16:28 darbsllim has joined
334 2011-06-01 03:16:44 <Diablo-D3> it does
335 2011-06-01 03:16:47 <Diablo-D3> but my miner works better
336 2011-06-01 03:17:04 ezl- has joined
337 2011-06-01 03:17:22 io-Zzzz is now known as IO---
338 2011-06-01 03:17:37 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
339 2011-06-01 03:17:42 <dizzyd> i see some bits of the protocol that does some sort of serialization of CWalletTx
340 2011-06-01 03:17:49 <dizzyd> are those optional bits?
341 2011-06-01 03:17:52 <TbbW> the linux python miner works good coz there is not much modifications u need to do to get it running that's why i use it in linux
342 2011-06-01 03:18:03 eoss has joined
343 2011-06-01 03:18:10 <Diablo-D3> TbbW: mine requires zero modifications.
344 2011-06-01 03:18:28 skeledrew has joined
345 2011-06-01 03:18:34 <TbbW> Diablo-D3: not even compilation ? :)
346 2011-06-01 03:18:36 <dizzyd> or is the serialization of CWalletTx documented (other than in the code⦠it's a _protocol_!)
347 2011-06-01 03:18:49 <Diablo-D3> TbbW: ... neither python or java need compiled.
348 2011-06-01 03:19:01 <Diablo-D3> well, not in the C sense.
349 2011-06-01 03:19:18 <TbbW> Diablo-D3: well java is like anal sex... just coz it works everywhere does not make it pleasant :/
350 2011-06-01 03:19:57 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
351 2011-06-01 03:20:01 <Diablo-D3> download zip, unzip zip, cd into unpacked zip, ./DiabloMiner-Linux.sh -some -flags
352 2011-06-01 03:20:05 <Diablo-D3> how hard was that.
353 2011-06-01 03:20:19 RAM2012 has joined
354 2011-06-01 03:20:30 <da2ce7> any update on when the wiki is going to back?
355 2011-06-01 03:21:09 <jgarzik> TbbW: the python miner is really, really, really slow. cpuminer would probably increase your income 1000x.
356 2011-06-01 03:21:10 sethsethseth_ has joined
357 2011-06-01 03:21:27 JSharp has quit (Quit: home)
358 2011-06-01 03:22:08 <TbbW> jgarzik: well i got a Amd Phenom II X4 3.6ghz and tbh cpu mining is 20 times slower ;)
359 2011-06-01 03:22:56 dizzyd has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
360 2011-06-01 03:23:01 <jgarzik> TbbW: Perhaps we are talking about different miners. This is the python miner I was referring to: https://github.com/jgarzik/pyminer
361 2011-06-01 03:23:14 <jgarzik> poclbm for GPUs is a different beast, and of course, far faster
362 2011-06-01 03:23:37 * jgarzik was worried that someone was actually /using/ pyminer...
363 2011-06-01 03:23:49 <TbbW> jgarzik: i use poclbm :)
364 2011-06-01 03:23:56 <jgarzik> ok good :)
365 2011-06-01 03:25:47 darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
366 2011-06-01 03:30:33 Twoheaded has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
367 2011-06-01 03:32:47 cacheson has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
368 2011-06-01 03:33:26 cacheson has joined
369 2011-06-01 03:35:26 darkmethod has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
370 2011-06-01 03:35:40 <TbbW> how many mhash is usaly one "getwork" ?
371 2011-06-01 03:36:12 Twoheaded has joined
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382 2011-06-01 03:47:19 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
383 2011-06-01 03:48:39 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: out of coins huh?
384 2011-06-01 03:49:24 sethsethseth__ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
385 2011-06-01 03:49:33 <ne0futur> only the main page is "out of coins"
386 2011-06-01 03:49:42 <ne0futur> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#kgbcmPPUSDzrg180zigHourlyzvztgMzbgEza1gSMAzm1g10za2gWMAzm2g25zi1gVolzi2gPVT
387 2011-06-01 03:49:45 <ne0futur> works
388 2011-06-01 03:55:33 <sshack> Is there anywhere other than bitfaucet that I could get a few bitpennies?
389 2011-06-01 03:56:47 <Nesetalis> BTC for head? XD
390 2011-06-01 03:56:52 <Nesetalis> sorry.
391 2011-06-01 03:57:18 <sshack> heh. It could happen.
392 2011-06-01 03:57:38 <sshack> hoe's are getting more up with the tech every day.
393 2011-06-01 04:00:24 darbsllim has joined
394 2011-06-01 04:02:05 Xenland has joined
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397 2011-06-01 04:04:58 QuietDad has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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399 2011-06-01 04:06:06 <dizzyd> i've seen a number of people note that if SHA-256 is ever cracked bitcoin could flip over to another algo
400 2011-06-01 04:06:32 <dizzyd> but in reading the spec, the protocol has no such flexibility â i.e. a non-trivial portion of protocol would need to change as well
401 2011-06-01 04:06:50 <dizzyd> just an observation :)
402 2011-06-01 04:08:01 <Netsniper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PArF9k2SbQk
403 2011-06-01 04:10:10 Kiba has joined
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418 2011-06-01 04:33:55 <pwrcycle> i found a way to gather all shares from a successful round
419 2011-06-01 04:34:06 XX01XX has quit ()
420 2011-06-01 04:34:40 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: sure, wait for upstream_result==Y
421 2011-06-01 04:35:12 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: if i'm running a pull, i need to gather all those that contributed
422 2011-06-01 04:35:34 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: yes. that's all the shares prior to upstream_result==Y.
423 2011-06-01 04:36:01 sabalaba has joined
424 2011-06-01 04:36:11 <pwrcycle> so i wrote a perl script to find Y Y and then grab the first 64char of the succeful block, then grab all contibuted shares that match on 2nd pass.
425 2011-06-01 04:37:16 <jrmithdobbs> there's a much easier way to do that
426 2011-06-01 04:37:33 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: jgarzik all the shares prior include previous blocks though won't they?
427 2011-06-01 04:37:49 <jgarzik> yes
428 2011-06-01 04:38:05 <pwrcycle> jrmithdobbs: how do you do it
429 2011-06-01 04:38:22 <jgarzik> that's how all present pools block. if you solve block #100 and #200, then your second round includes shares from blocks #101 - #200.
430 2011-06-01 04:38:29 <jgarzik> *pools work
431 2011-06-01 04:38:40 citiz3n has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
432 2011-06-01 04:38:51 <jgarzik> round >= block
433 2011-06-01 04:39:07 <jrmithdobbs> pwrcycle: select time from shares where upstream_result='Y' limit 2 order by time asc; then select * from shares where time > 'firsttime' and time < 'secondtime';
434 2011-06-01 04:39:17 <pwrcycle> ah, didn't know that.
435 2011-06-01 04:39:44 <jrmithdobbs> something like that will get the last round
436 2011-06-01 04:39:59 <pwrcycle> jrmithdobbs: i'm not a mysql wizard, so i'm using perl :)
437 2011-06-01 04:40:25 <jrmithdobbs> doing it in the db will be 10-20x as fast as parsing the entire shares.log
438 2011-06-01 04:40:28 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: slush is doing time agin though
439 2011-06-01 04:40:46 <pwrcycle> isn't there some point where old shares aren't counted
440 2011-06-01 04:41:00 <jrmithdobbs> well that's up to you
441 2011-06-01 04:41:02 <pwrcycle> jrmithdobbs: yeah, i was counting on being able to rm old share logs though
442 2011-06-01 04:41:12 <jgarzik> slush decays the value of shares over time
443 2011-06-01 04:41:19 <jgarzik> old shares are still counted
444 2011-06-01 04:41:23 <pwrcycle> ah
445 2011-06-01 04:41:30 <Diablo-D3> you know
446 2011-06-01 04:41:30 <jrmithdobbs> pwrcycle: and you do what when people scream that you're cheating and demand proof of claimed payouts/share?
447 2011-06-01 04:41:37 <Diablo-D3> I am still snickering about the fact I made sdk 2.4 work
448 2011-06-01 04:41:47 <jrmithdobbs> snickering about what
449 2011-06-01 04:41:51 <jrmithdobbs> it didn't work?
450 2011-06-01 04:41:56 <jrmithdobbs> worked find for me
451 2011-06-01 04:41:57 <Diablo-D3> for everyone else its slower
452 2011-06-01 04:42:00 <jrmithdobbs> s/find/fine/
453 2011-06-01 04:42:05 <Diablo-D3> I made it as fast as 2.1
454 2011-06-01 04:42:06 <pwrcycle> jrmithdobbs: i was planning of publishing the logs in real time
455 2011-06-01 04:42:30 <jrmithdobbs> i never saw a difference between 2.1 and 2.4 on hardware i had
456 2011-06-01 04:42:34 <jrmithdobbs> and chocked it up to gamertards
457 2011-06-01 04:42:43 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: nope, theres a difference
458 2011-06-01 04:42:54 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: do tell
459 2011-06-01 04:43:00 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: there wasn't on the hardware/setup i ran.
460 2011-06-01 04:43:02 <Diablo-D3> you cant choose the most optimum settings
461 2011-06-01 04:43:09 <Diablo-D3> miners typically dont offer it
462 2011-06-01 04:43:10 <Diablo-D3> mine does
463 2011-06-01 04:43:16 <Diablo-D3> https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1721.msg154804#msg154804
464 2011-06-01 04:43:18 <luke-jr> [00:31:45] <jrmithdobbs> pwrcycle: select time from shares where upstream_result='Y' limit 2 order by time asc; then select * from shares where time > 'firsttime' and time < 'secondtime';
465 2011-06-01 04:43:20 <luke-jr> I fail
466 2011-06-01 04:43:25 <luke-jr> I was using listtransactions
467 2011-06-01 04:43:26 <luke-jr> :P
468 2011-06-01 04:43:35 <jrmithdobbs> lol
469 2011-06-01 04:43:35 <pwrcycle> jrmithdobbs: i was just using perl to limit the fields to time user block
470 2011-06-01 04:43:43 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: -v in poclbm and VECTORS in phoenix is -v 2 in mine
471 2011-06-01 04:43:53 <Diablo-D3> notice -v 2 does not win on 2.4 in any reasonable setting
472 2011-06-01 04:44:54 SerajewelKS- has joined
473 2011-06-01 04:45:08 <SerajewelKS-> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
474 2011-06-01 04:45:09 <SerajewelKS-> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
475 2011-06-01 04:45:09 <SerajewelKS-> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol
476 2011-06-01 04:45:09 <SerajewelKS-> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
477 2011-06-01 04:45:09 <SerajewelKS-> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
478 2011-06-01 04:45:09 <SerajewelKS-> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol. you can't win hahahahahahah. emails to chris's works with logs of his asshattery have been sent.
479 2011-06-01 04:45:09 <SerajewelKS-> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
480 2011-06-01 04:45:10 <SerajewelKS-> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
481 2011-06-01 04:45:10 <SerajewelKS-> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol. you can't win hahahahahahah. emails to chris's works with logs of his asshattery have been sent.
482 2011-06-01 04:45:11 SerajewelKS- has left ()
483 2011-06-01 04:45:25 <luke-jr> â¦
484 2011-06-01 04:45:38 citiz3n has joined
485 2011-06-01 04:45:47 SerajewelKS- has joined
486 2011-06-01 04:45:48 <SerajewelKS-> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
487 2011-06-01 04:45:49 <SerajewelKS-> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
488 2011-06-01 04:45:49 <SerajewelKS-> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol
489 2011-06-01 04:45:49 <SerajewelKS-> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
490 2011-06-01 04:45:49 <SerajewelKS-> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
491 2011-06-01 04:45:49 <SerajewelKS-> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol. you can't win hahahahahahah. emails to chris's works with logs of his asshattery have been sent.
492 2011-06-01 04:45:49 <SerajewelKS-> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
493 2011-06-01 04:45:50 <SerajewelKS-> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
494 2011-06-01 04:45:50 <SerajewelKS-> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol. you can't win hahahahahahah. emails to chris's works with logs of his asshattery have been sent.
495 2011-06-01 04:45:51 SerajewelKS- has left ()
496 2011-06-01 04:45:58 <SerajewelKS> yay
497 2011-06-01 04:46:13 <jrmithdobbs> who'd you piss off
498 2011-06-01 04:46:15 abionia has joined
499 2011-06-01 04:46:20 <SerajewelKS> all my secret information available on whois. wow.
500 2011-06-01 04:46:27 <SerajewelKS> i'm sceered
501 2011-06-01 04:46:29 SerajewelKS- has joined
502 2011-06-01 04:46:30 <SerajewelKS-> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
503 2011-06-01 04:46:30 <SerajewelKS-> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
504 2011-06-01 04:46:30 <SerajewelKS-> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol
505 2011-06-01 04:46:30 <SerajewelKS-> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
506 2011-06-01 04:46:30 <SerajewelKS-> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
507 2011-06-01 04:46:30 <SerajewelKS-> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol. you can't win hahahahahahah. emails to chris's works with logs of his asshattery have been sent.
508 2011-06-01 04:46:31 <SerajewelKS-> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
509 2011-06-01 04:46:31 <SerajewelKS-> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
510 2011-06-01 04:46:32 <SerajewelKS-> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol. you can't win hahahahahahah. emails to chris's works with logs of his asshattery have been sent.
511 2011-06-01 04:46:32 SerajewelKS- has left ()
512 2011-06-01 04:46:48 <SerajewelKS> jrmithdobbs: some guy in #bitcoin-otc who refused to take off-topic arguments elsewhere
513 2011-06-01 04:47:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt:
514 2011-06-01 04:47:12 <abionia> wow
515 2011-06-01 04:47:12 <jrmithdobbs> last time someone bothered to whois my irc host i got free weed
516 2011-06-01 04:47:16 <jrmithdobbs> haha
517 2011-06-01 04:47:37 <jrmithdobbs> (because they lived a block away ... that shit was surreal)
518 2011-06-01 04:47:44 <SerajewelKS> heh
519 2011-06-01 04:49:07 <gmaxwell> People are weird.
520 2011-06-01 04:49:10 <Diablo-D3> what the fuck
521 2011-06-01 04:49:16 <Diablo-D3> SerajewelKS: what the fuck are you doing
522 2011-06-01 04:49:32 <gmaxwell> â¦and unable to read.
523 2011-06-01 04:49:33 <SerajewelKS> Diablo-D3: me? nothing
524 2011-06-01 04:49:48 has joined
525 2011-06-01 04:49:51 <SerajewelKS> Diablo-D3: some troll who hates me because he got +q for being off-topic and rude? flooding.
526 2011-06-01 04:49:59 <Diablo-D3> oh
527 2011-06-01 04:50:06 <Diablo-D3> I noticed the - =P
528 2011-06-01 04:50:13 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-69-208-129-107.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net|Guest19021
529 2011-06-01 04:51:04 <SerajewelKS> :)
530 2011-06-01 04:51:16 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: slush's site says: "When the pool mine a block, only users who worked on that block are rewarded, and only for work they did on that block."
531 2011-06-01 04:51:35 <pwrcycle> it doesn't read like he's counting shares from previous blocks
532 2011-06-01 04:51:40 <Diablo-D3> hes not
533 2011-06-01 04:51:41 <Diablo-D3> its prop only
534 2011-06-01 04:52:44 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: that's describing how bitcoin works
535 2011-06-01 04:53:00 <jrmithdobbs> pwrcycle: each pool has their own rules
536 2011-06-01 04:53:04 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: haven't you ever actually _mined_ before?
537 2011-06-01 04:53:11 <jrmithdobbs> pwrcycle: slush isn't even using pushpool afaik
538 2011-06-01 04:53:14 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
539 2011-06-01 04:53:25 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: I know of no pool that only rewards for the currently solved block, and ignores shares from prior clocks
540 2011-06-01 04:53:26 <Diablo-D3> slush is using slushpool
541 2011-06-01 04:53:26 <jgarzik> *blocks
542 2011-06-01 04:53:33 eternal1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
543 2011-06-01 04:53:49 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: i've mined, but only ever got paid via slush's pool.
544 2011-06-01 04:54:17 <jgarzik> As I stated,
545 2011-06-01 04:54:20 <jgarzik> round >= block
546 2011-06-01 04:54:40 redengin has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
547 2011-06-01 04:54:51 <jgarzik> of course, it's a free market, you are welcome to run your pool however you wish.
548 2011-06-01 04:55:02 <jgarzik> that's the point of releasing the software :)
549 2011-06-01 04:55:47 <gmaxwell> I don't know why "no prior blocks" would make any sense at all. Every failed hash attempt is a failed hash attempt and a full restart of your expectation.
550 2011-06-01 04:56:10 <gmaxwell> There isn't any reason to restart at "new blocks" vs restart after 1 hour.
551 2011-06-01 04:57:14 <pwrcycle> gmaxwell: if you find >1 block/hour and your split is based on an hour, you'd have double payout on shares from the first found block.
552 2011-06-01 04:57:54 <gmaxwell> pwrcycle: if everyone was doubled it wouldn't matter much.
553 2011-06-01 04:58:02 zero has joined
554 2011-06-01 04:58:10 <gmaxwell> Thats not really the point I was trying to make in any case.
555 2011-06-01 04:58:14 <pwrcycle> gmaxwell: it would matter to a miner who wasn't connected for the 1st 1/2 hour.
556 2011-06-01 04:58:25 zero is now known as Guest21516
557 2011-06-01 04:58:28 <gmaxwell> The transition from one block to another is no more throwing out work than from one hash to another.
558 2011-06-01 04:58:31 sethsethseth___ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
559 2011-06-01 04:58:46 <gmaxwell> You should like you're one of these mistaken people who think that mining is a race.
560 2011-06-01 04:58:51 sethsethseth_ has joined
561 2011-06-01 04:59:41 sethsethseth_ has quit (Client Quit)
562 2011-06-01 05:00:02 birtig has joined
563 2011-06-01 05:00:03 <birtig> lol quieting me was highly suboptimal for SerajewelKS. <stoneton> oh rite.. to do biz in the US theres license for each state <stoneton> most states have similar licenses <---- [44 state licenses here https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses and NY just ruled that internet payment companies nust now register [they werent required to before in NY] bringing it to 45. Furthermore, each state
564 2011-06-01 05:00:03 <birtig> has a separate currency exchange license which would be required for an exchange.]
565 2011-06-01 05:00:03 <birtig> <vragnaroda> stoneton: no, there isn't when business conducted is interst ate or international. < vragnaroda> stoneton: no, paypal's money transmittal license is held by a subsidiary in nebraska, where it's cheaper and the license less expensive. <----- lol so much bullshit spewed by one clueless gimp. vragnaroda spews complete nonsense and SerajewelKS defends his nonsense. lol. SerajewelKS
566 2011-06-01 05:00:03 <birtig> = troll. vragnaroda - you failed law 101. you will not be going to law school any time soon.
567 2011-06-01 05:00:03 <birtig> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
568 2011-06-01 05:00:03 <birtig> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
569 2011-06-01 05:00:03 <birtig> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol. you can't win hahahahahahah. emails to chris's works with logs of his asshattery have been sent.
570 2011-06-01 05:00:04 <birtig> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
571 2011-06-01 05:00:04 <birtig> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
572 2011-06-01 05:00:05 <birtig> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol. you can't win hahahahahahah. emails to chris's works with logs of his asshattery have been sent.
573 2011-06-01 05:00:05 birtig has left ()
574 2011-06-01 05:00:09 <gmaxwell> pwrcycle: "it would matter to a miner who wasn't connected for" so would restarting when a new block is found elsewhere on the network.. say you work 8 hours without finding a solution, then get disconnected.. an hour later the pool finds a solution. ... and you make nothing, because several network blocks had crossed inthat time.
575 2011-06-01 05:00:19 <gmaxwell> wow. how did freenode's ratelimiting allow that?
576 2011-06-01 05:00:38 birtig has joined
577 2011-06-01 05:00:40 <birtig> lol quieting me was highly suboptimal for SerajewelKS. <stoneton> oh rite.. to do biz in the US theres license for each state <stoneton> most states have similar licenses <---- [44 state licenses here https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses and NY just ruled that internet payment companies nust now register [they werent required to before in NY] bringing it to 45. Furthermore, each state
578 2011-06-01 05:00:40 <birtig> has a separate currency exchange license which would be required for an exchange.]
579 2011-06-01 05:00:40 <birtig> <vragnaroda> stoneton: no, there isn't when business conducted is interst ate or international. < vragnaroda> stoneton: no, paypal's money transmittal license is held by a subsidiary in nebraska, where it's cheaper and the license less expensive. <----- lol so much bullshit spewed by one clueless gimp. vragnaroda spews complete nonsense and SerajewelKS defends his nonsense. lol. SerajewelKS
580 2011-06-01 05:00:40 <birtig> = troll. vragnaroda - you failed law 101. you will not be going to law school any time soon.
581 2011-06-01 05:00:40 <birtig> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
582 2011-06-01 05:00:40 <birtig> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
583 2011-06-01 05:00:41 <birtig> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol. you can't win hahahahahahah. emails to chris's works with logs of his asshattery have been sent.
584 2011-06-01 05:00:41 <birtig> since SerajewelKS quieted me, he won't have a problem with people knowing that SerajewelKS is some faggot named "Chris Howie": e-mail: me@chrishowie.com address: 2528 Running Stream Ct., Anderson, Indiana 46011, tel.: 1-765-203-9543. when he was given a link showing paypal's 44 state registrations (https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses), he censored me. lol. Serajewel is a douchebag.
585 2011-06-01 05:00:42 <birtig> haha. info posted to pastebin / reddit / front page on google by tomorrow. chris howie https://profiles.google.com/cdhowie http://www.linkedin.com/in/chrishowie http://www.twitter.com/cdhowie
586 2011-06-01 05:00:42 <birtig> chris howie quiets people who are right, and defends ppl like vragnaroda who spew copious amount of nonsense in the chan. chris howie is a tool. lol. you can't win hahahahahahah. emails to chris's works with logs of his asshattery have been sent.
587 2011-06-01 05:00:43 birtig has left ()
588 2011-06-01 05:01:15 <gmaxwell> I've /ignored "birtig" but er.. someone might actually want to ban that ip...
589 2011-06-01 05:01:26 <pwrcycle> i think it's /ignore c-67-182-75-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net
590 2011-06-01 05:01:38 <jgarzik> I just op'd SerajewelKS
591 2011-06-01 05:01:39 citiz3n_ has joined
592 2011-06-01 05:02:29 ezl- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
593 2011-06-01 05:02:35 <gmaxwell> pwrcycle: in any case, working on new work that has a different extranonce or a different timestamp is no different that working on the next step in the bitcoin chain.
594 2011-06-01 05:02:58 <gmaxwell> There isn't any progress which is lost when the network moves on to a new block.
595 2011-06-01 05:03:06 <jgarzik> [meta] what is the IRC ban command?
596 2011-06-01 05:03:12 <jgarzik> I hate being an op
597 2011-06-01 05:03:12 <gmaxwell> So there isn't any reason to fail to pay miners for hours of work
598 2011-06-01 05:03:21 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: most clients have an automatic /ban
599 2011-06-01 05:03:21 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: /ban $nick
600 2011-06-01 05:03:32 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: /kick $nick
601 2011-06-01 05:03:38 <pwrcycle> ban them first
602 2011-06-01 05:03:45 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: otherwise it's a channel mode change +b user@host
603 2011-06-01 05:03:45 <jgarzik> not effective, he switches nicks
604 2011-06-01 05:04:07 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: also /ban c-67-182-75-153.hsd1.ca.comcast.net
605 2011-06-01 05:04:17 citiz3n has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
606 2011-06-01 05:04:22 citiz3n_ is now known as citiz3n
607 2011-06-01 05:04:27 citiz3n has quit (Changing host)
608 2011-06-01 05:04:27 citiz3n has joined
609 2011-06-01 05:05:33 <gmaxwell> yup
610 2011-06-01 05:06:34 <SerajewelKS> jgarzik: thanks. was busy in -otc :)
611 2011-06-01 05:07:00 <SerajewelKS> he's spamming at least three channels that i can see, probably more
612 2011-06-01 05:07:06 <jgarzik> SerajewelKS: standard op lecture. don't abuse it, or we're glare at you with a Beam of Glaring +2
613 2011-06-01 05:07:16 <pwrcycle> gmaxwell: i think i see what you're saying, but i'm not sure i agree.
614 2011-06-01 05:07:59 <SerajewelKS> jgarzik: of course
615 2011-06-01 05:08:03 <pwrcycle> what's the difference in a share and a completed block?
616 2011-06-01 05:08:17 <pwrcycle> is a share that's not the answer used anywhere?
617 2011-06-01 05:08:21 <SerajewelKS> a share is just proof that you're actually working
618 2011-06-01 05:08:32 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: correct
619 2011-06-01 05:08:41 <gmaxwell> pwrcycle: a share is a low value, but not low enough to be a full difficulty solution.
620 2011-06-01 05:08:44 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: a share is useless, 99.9999% of the time
621 2011-06-01 05:08:51 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: sometimes, you get lucky. that's a block.
622 2011-06-01 05:09:01 <gmaxwell> well right, its a superset.
623 2011-06-01 05:09:19 <gmaxwell> Shares would all be blocks if the network difficulty were ~=1. :)
624 2011-06-01 05:09:40 <SerajewelKS> i gotta get some sleep. if one of you with ops in -otc and/or -pit could keep an eye on them, i'd appreciate it.
625 2011-06-01 05:09:50 <lfm> so if your shares are at difficulty 1.0 and the net is at difficulty 434882 then one share out of 434882 is a block
626 2011-06-01 05:09:51 <SerajewelKS> i could care less about my info, but a 3-page flood is a bit disruptive
627 2011-06-01 05:11:51 <pwrcycle> i'm still incinded to only pay contributers of the current block.
628 2011-06-01 05:11:54 Guest19021 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
629 2011-06-01 05:12:03 <gmaxwell> 'contributors'
630 2011-06-01 05:12:05 <lfm> so a share is theoreticlly worth about ...
631 2011-06-01 05:12:09 <gmaxwell> What are they contributing?
632 2011-06-01 05:12:13 <pwrcycle> i can appreciate someone mining for 8 hours then getting disconnected before finding a paying block.
633 2011-06-01 05:12:17 Guest19021 has joined
634 2011-06-01 05:12:18 <lfm> ;;bc,cacl 50/434882
635 2011-06-01 05:12:19 <gribble> Error: "bc,cacl" is not a valid command.
636 2011-06-01 05:12:23 <pwrcycle> but a block is worth 50btc. a share isn't worth anything.
637 2011-06-01 05:12:24 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 50/434882
638 2011-06-01 05:12:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 50/434882 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 515141852 years, 29 weeks, 5 days, 8 hours, 10 minutes, and 20 seconds
639 2011-06-01 05:12:32 <lfm> ;;calc 50/434882
640 2011-06-01 05:12:33 <gribble> 50 / 434Â 882 = 0.000114973717
641 2011-06-01 05:12:39 <gmaxwell> pwrcycle: so they worked for you all day, and you paid them nothing?
642 2011-06-01 05:12:40 <lfm> there
643 2011-06-01 05:12:47 <jgarzik> pretty much
644 2011-06-01 05:12:52 <pwrcycle> gmaxwell: that seems to be what slush is doing
645 2011-06-01 05:12:57 <jgarzik> pwrcycle: wrong
646 2011-06-01 05:13:01 <gmaxwell> No, thats not what slush does.
647 2011-06-01 05:13:15 <pwrcycle> gmaxwell: i always though of it more like roulette
648 2011-06-01 05:13:23 <gmaxwell> when the pool finds a block it pays for all the work done since the last block found.
649 2011-06-01 05:13:35 <gmaxwell> pwrcycle: if people want roulette there is no reason to use a pool at all.
650 2011-06-01 05:13:46 <jgarzik> last block the -pool- found, not the last block the -network- found, to be specific.
651 2011-06-01 05:14:07 <jgarzik> pools mean consistent, constant payment
652 2011-06-01 05:14:08 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: er, dur, I normally wouldn't have to clarify that. Obviously important here. :)
653 2011-06-01 05:14:10 <lfm> gmaxwell: thats what I always say, go solo!
654 2011-06-01 05:14:17 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: :)
655 2011-06-01 05:14:41 qwebirc80029 has joined
656 2011-06-01 05:14:44 <lfm> jgarzik: when they are working right
657 2011-06-01 05:14:50 <gmaxwell> pwrcycle: following your logic only the person who found the block should get paid.
658 2011-06-01 05:15:04 <gmaxwell> And then there is absolutely no reason to be in a pool.
659 2011-06-01 05:15:15 <gmaxwell> Because the only thing a pool is there to do is to even out everyone's luck.
660 2011-06-01 05:15:33 <lfm> gmaxwell: well there are reasons but they are psycological illusions
661 2011-06-01 05:15:40 <gmaxwell> It's not a race, there is no increase in your long term expected payoff from being in a pool.
662 2011-06-01 05:15:49 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
663 2011-06-01 05:15:55 <gmaxwell> lfm: reducing variance is a legit goal.
664 2011-06-01 05:16:01 sacarlson has joined
665 2011-06-01 05:16:04 <gmaxwell> lfm: confidence of income has value.
666 2011-06-01 05:16:12 <pwrcycle> gmaxwell: i see the variance in that too. if the first share was the answer, only 1 gets paid, which is bad.
667 2011-06-01 05:16:23 <lfm> gmaxwell: yup illusions
668 2011-06-01 05:17:10 <gmaxwell> lfm: well, I don't think it's an illusion, if I got broke waiting for my ship to come in and have to shut down, I'm not happy. (though perhaps not actually a issue for anyone)
669 2011-06-01 05:17:15 <gmaxwell> s/got/go/
670 2011-06-01 05:17:23 <lfm> I think a pool should pay on a set schedule like once a day and split the winnings by share like every day at midnight
671 2011-06-01 05:17:51 <lfm> but I still wouldnt join it
672 2011-06-01 05:18:06 FabianB_ has joined
673 2011-06-01 05:18:23 <jgarzik> solo mining w/ 12+ Ghps + bad luck has meant income far, far below what is 'expected'. A pool would have been materially, provably more lucrative.
674 2011-06-01 05:18:33 <gmaxwell> lfm: still enables hopping. If a pool had a really unlucky morning you stop contributing shares in the afternoon because the marginal return is less than someplace that wasn't unlucky in the morning.
675 2011-06-01 05:18:41 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
676 2011-06-01 05:18:45 <pwrcycle> lfm: how can you account for people that mined 1 hr vs 24 hours? GETs are easy to forge, so only shares would show work.
677 2011-06-01 05:19:07 <gmaxwell> jgarzik' in the parallel universe who solved 10 blocks in an hour would disagree. :) Though I'm not trying to advocate solo mining.
678 2011-06-01 05:19:13 <lfm> gmaxwell: dont tell people how many winners there are till you pay out
679 2011-06-01 05:19:18 <gmaxwell> Just making sure everyone is clear that there isn't some enormous average gain.
680 2011-06-01 05:20:06 <pwrcycle> for a shares since last block found, you should mine in a pool that just found a block, because there are now fewer shares?
681 2011-06-01 05:20:15 <gmaxwell> lfm: might be hard to hide the pools blocks in practice.
682 2011-06-01 05:20:40 <gmaxwell> lfm: but fair enough.
683 2011-06-01 05:20:52 <gmaxwell> lfm: though no one would like it.
684 2011-06-01 05:20:56 <lfm> gmaxwell: not hard, every miner mines on a different coinbase address
685 2011-06-01 05:21:36 <gmaxwell> lfm: when the pool finds the block the LP will come much sooner than the new block from some random probes you have on the network.
686 2011-06-01 05:21:40 <lfm> gmaxwell: ya, no one likes fair
687 2011-06-01 05:21:48 <Blitzboom> jgarzik: thatâs the fault of those maniacs who keep buying
688 2011-06-01 05:22:13 <Blitzboom> falkvinge style
689 2011-06-01 05:22:16 <gmaxwell> lfm: wellâ not just that, it isn't instant gratification. People like seeing their balances going up.
690 2011-06-01 05:22:23 <lfm> gmaxwell: hmm, ya lp would be a clue, guess we just use getwork then
691 2011-06-01 05:22:34 <jgarzik> regardless, pool benefits are not 'illusions' :)
692 2011-06-01 05:22:50 <lfm> gmaxwell: they want regularity, every day at midnight would be regular
693 2011-06-01 05:22:57 <gmaxwell> I agree that they're not illusions.
694 2011-06-01 05:23:19 <Blitzboom> how come deepbit is STILL so big after ddos?
695 2011-06-01 05:23:21 <lfm> gmaxwell: just the amounts might change
696 2011-06-01 05:23:27 <gmaxwell> I don't know that they even want regularity for the most part. I think a lot of the interest in pools is because they see _progress_
697 2011-06-01 05:24:00 <Guest21516> acer rules
698 2011-06-01 05:24:15 <gmaxwell> There are also a non-trivial number of people who appear to think its a race and the biggest the pool the more they will earn.
699 2011-06-01 05:24:29 <lfm> well pridictable payout would cure several problems with people watching the pot boil so to speak
700 2011-06-01 05:24:38 <gmaxwell> Blitzboom: they went temporary zero-fees after the big ddos this weekend in order to rebuild size.
701 2011-06-01 05:24:49 <Blitzboom> lol
702 2011-06-01 05:25:07 <Blitzboom> he really wants 50% of the hashrate
703 2011-06-01 05:25:29 <lfm> thats reason enuf to stay away from him
704 2011-06-01 05:25:53 <Blitzboom> the free market fails
705 2011-06-01 05:26:41 blueadept has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
706 2011-06-01 05:27:46 <lfm> the only reasons anyone would wanna control 50% of the mining are bad. when he gets it it could be bad for everyone including his miners
707 2011-06-01 05:28:16 <gmaxwell> Obviously many miners are indifferent or are too ignorant to care.
708 2011-06-01 05:28:20 <Blitzboom> i argue that most miners donât even care
709 2011-06-01 05:28:27 <Blitzboom> as long as they see the dollars rolling in
710 2011-06-01 05:28:33 abionia has quit (Quit: Page closed)
711 2011-06-01 05:28:34 Guest21516 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
712 2011-06-01 05:28:37 <lfm> they dont care what their btc will be worth?
713 2011-06-01 05:28:40 <Blitzboom> bitcoin is nothing more than a money machine to most of them
714 2011-06-01 05:28:46 <gmaxwell> They're staying around even with the highest fees, and not great uptime.
715 2011-06-01 05:28:56 <Blitzboom> lfm: well, they probably donât understand the consequences
716 2011-06-01 05:29:09 <jgarzik> IMO with the latest rush of miners, it's just free money and they don't really care about the system
717 2011-06-01 05:29:15 <gmaxwell> And they have some mistaken belief that bigger pools give them a better odds at wining the race.
718 2011-06-01 05:29:30 <Blitzboom> agreed. weâre having lots of miners who donât give a shit about bitcoin
719 2011-06-01 05:29:45 karnac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
720 2011-06-01 05:29:52 <Blitzboom> parasite hashrate
721 2011-06-01 05:29:57 <gmaxwell> amusingly it seems a lot of these people also mine PPS.
722 2011-06-01 05:30:01 <lfm> oh well when the bubble bursts they will mostly go away
723 2011-06-01 05:30:24 <Blitzboom> lfm: honestly, iâm not sure if this will burst or will get even bigger
724 2011-06-01 05:30:57 <lfm> yes of course it will probably get bigger for a while before it bursts. that is always true untill it isnt
725 2011-06-01 05:31:04 <jgarzik> another part of the pool problem is that deepbit seems to wind up with far more stability than other pools. other pools are either very new, or unstable.
726 2011-06-01 05:31:08 <gmaxwell> Perhaps we should just pick a random small pool and start calling it the biggest everywhere.
727 2011-06-01 05:31:12 <jgarzik> btcmine seems excluded from both those
728 2011-06-01 05:31:17 <gmaxwell> All the clueless people will just move over to it then. :)
729 2011-06-01 05:31:40 <Blitzboom> i think itâs cause of this signature banners
730 2011-06-01 05:31:41 blueadept has joined
731 2011-06-01 05:32:40 karnac has joined
732 2011-06-01 05:32:50 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I'm now monitoring four pools (though just from my location) and deepbit is the only pool that has taken considerable downtime (>5m) in the last week that I've been monitoring.
733 2011-06-01 05:33:04 <gmaxwell> It would probably be interesting to be a bit more systematic about it and post stats.
734 2011-06-01 05:33:16 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: my time scale is a bit wider :)
735 2011-06-01 05:33:18 hagios has joined
736 2011-06-01 05:33:21 <lfm> gmaxwell: oh, you could send new lp blocks for every txn update then the new blocks wouldnt be so obvious
737 2011-06-01 05:33:35 lightcode has joined
738 2011-06-01 05:33:40 <gmaxwell> lfm: oh good call.
739 2011-06-01 05:33:49 karnac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
740 2011-06-01 05:34:03 <sshack> gmaxwell: pps?
741 2011-06-01 05:34:06 Rolz73 has joined
742 2011-06-01 05:34:07 <gmaxwell> lfm: this might enable pretty unbounded theft by the pool operator though.
743 2011-06-01 05:34:15 karnac has joined
744 2011-06-01 05:34:31 <gmaxwell> sshack: pay per share. Which is perfectly fine thing, but all current operators charge a heavy overhead for it.
745 2011-06-01 05:34:32 <lfm> gmaxwell: you kinda have to trust pool operators anyway really
746 2011-06-01 05:34:44 <Blitzboom> we should have deepbit ddosed again
747 2011-06-01 05:35:04 <sshack> ahh.
748 2011-06-01 05:35:06 <gmaxwell> lfm: it increases it though. esp e.g. vs eligius where the operator never even sits on the users funds.
749 2011-06-01 05:35:18 <lfm> naw, dont stoop to that level
750 2011-06-01 05:35:28 <gmaxwell> Yea, and don't talk about it here.
751 2011-06-01 05:35:36 <gmaxwell> I don't want to be around that discussion.
752 2011-06-01 05:35:43 <Blitzboom> lfm: itâs the only measure that seems to work :P
753 2011-06-01 05:35:57 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
754 2011-06-01 05:36:10 <gmaxwell> Besides, gentlemen don't DDOSâ they set up prediction markets that pay off to people who can predict 'downtime'. ;)
755 2011-06-01 05:36:12 <sshack> So how big is the internets economy?
756 2011-06-01 05:36:13 <Blitzboom> but deepbit seems too big to fail⢠already
757 2011-06-01 05:36:26 <wumpus> hehe gmaxwell
758 2011-06-01 05:36:50 <lfm> sshack: I doubt it could be measured accuratly
759 2011-06-01 05:36:59 <Blitzboom> do we have functioning prediction markets already?
760 2011-06-01 05:37:04 <sshack> Just doing random numbers. I think I read something like 21billion. and if bitcoins gets 0.02% of that, (and has issued all 21M coins), that puts the coins at $2USD
761 2011-06-01 05:37:10 <sshack> lfm: Ballpark is good enough.
762 2011-06-01 05:37:21 <gmaxwell> 21 billion? dunno about that ... I think porn alone is a bigger industry.
763 2011-06-01 05:37:47 <sshack> gmaxwell: Alright, double it, double the value. Assuming you can get 0.02% of the market.
764 2011-06-01 05:37:49 <lfm> sshack: well I wouldnt trust that esimate withing 3 orders of magnitude
765 2011-06-01 05:38:07 <sshack> lfm: It's just back of the envelope stuff.
766 2011-06-01 05:38:14 <lfm> yup
767 2011-06-01 05:38:30 <sshack> It's not really the number you care about, but the direction.
768 2011-06-01 05:39:00 <lfm> well I guess the direction is kinda obvious
769 2011-06-01 05:39:27 <lfm> kinda like north east
770 2011-06-01 05:39:29 <sshack> Are there more retailers accepting btc?
771 2011-06-01 05:39:44 <sshack> That is the number that would seem to matter.
772 2011-06-01 05:39:55 <lfm> yes more
773 2011-06-01 05:39:55 <sshack> Speaking of, who runs bitcoin.org? The wiki is broken.
774 2011-06-01 05:39:57 <gmaxwell> Blitzboom: not really, but I think that GLBSE will basically take any kind of contract.
775 2011-06-01 05:40:13 brunner has joined
776 2011-06-01 05:40:17 <sshack> oh it's back.
777 2011-06-01 05:40:18 <sshack> Nevermind
778 2011-06-01 05:46:06 <pwrcycle> jgarzik: how do you verify shares submitted?
779 2011-06-01 05:47:23 sanity has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
780 2011-06-01 05:48:01 cboy has joined
781 2011-06-01 05:48:33 sanity has joined
782 2011-06-01 05:48:59 sshack has quit (Quit: sshack)
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784 2011-06-01 05:56:22 hagios is now known as starkis
785 2011-06-01 05:56:24 <gmaxwell> lfm: if you haven't seen luke-jr's maxpps it gets the fair behavior easier than what you were suggesting.. and without complicated weighing or anything.
786 2011-06-01 05:56:37 <starkis> http://pastebin.com/aHfmiDdZ William Waisse (aka ne0futur) is a troll who spends his time trying desperately to censor discussions on the freenode irc network (in violation of freenode policy). here are the cunt's dox:
787 2011-06-01 05:56:37 <starkis> name: william waisse address: 1 rue Leon blum, 91130, Ris-Orangis, France tel: +33.681967610 emails: wwaisse@neofutur.net, william.waisse@gmail.com, neofutur@ww7.be, bc@ww7.be, neofutur@neofutur.net, wwaisse@esprit-equipe.fr, bitcoin.org@ww7.be, william@waisse.org http://www.viadeo.com/fr/profile/william.waisse
788 2011-06-01 05:56:37 <starkis> waisse's info will be recorded here. all this troll can prattle on about is why he wants ppl to stop discussing topics he dislikes lol:
789 2011-06-01 05:56:37 <starkis> [02:08] <ne0futur> oneman: i recommend not mining ;) [02:08] <ne0futur> and talking of mining on #bitcoin-mining :p [02:10] <ne0futur> i dont even know what is Sandy bridge ;) [02:10] <ne0futur> i dunno [02:10] <ne0futur> but the topic of the channel is only spaking of trading http://pastebin.com/aHfmiDdZ
790 2011-06-01 05:56:37 <starkis> http://pastebin.com/aHfmiDdZ William Waisse (aka ne0futur) is a troll who spends his time trying desperately to censor discussions on the freenode irc network (in violation of freenode policy). here are the cunt's dox:
791 2011-06-01 05:56:37 <starkis> name: william waisse address: 1 rue Leon blum, 91130, Ris-Orangis, France tel: +33.681967610 emails: wwaisse@neofutur.net, william.waisse@gmail.com, neofutur@ww7.be, bc@ww7.be, neofutur@neofutur.net, wwaisse@esprit-equipe.fr, bitcoin.org@ww7.be, william@waisse.org http://www.viadeo.com/fr/profile/william.waisse
792 2011-06-01 05:56:38 <starkis> waisse's info will be recorded here. all this troll can prattle on about is why he wants ppl to stop discussing topics he dislikes lol:
793 2011-06-01 05:56:38 <starkis> [02:08] <ne0futur> oneman: i recommend not mining ;) [02:08] <ne0futur> and talking of mining on #bitcoin-mining :p [02:10] <ne0futur> i dont even know what is Sandy bridge ;) [02:10] <ne0futur> i dunno [02:10] <ne0futur> but the topic of the channel is only spaking of trading http://pastebin.com/aHfmiDdZ
794 2011-06-01 05:56:39 starkis has left ()
795 2011-06-01 05:57:27 <gmaxwell> /ignore *!*@24-183-192-140.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com
796 2011-06-01 05:58:18 <gmaxwell> lfm: the idea of it is to simply compute the fair PPS, and cap your payouts at that... then buffer pay over the cap to buffer you when you're under the cap.
797 2011-06-01 05:58:39 <gmaxwell> lfm: so it's effectively a PPS scheme â but you're bankrolling it.
798 2011-06-01 05:58:47 sethsethseth_ has joined
799 2011-06-01 05:58:50 <gmaxwell> (so no risk to the operator)
800 2011-06-01 05:59:54 <gmaxwell> lfm: and it should be completely immune to all forms of stupidity. Including the "I filtered out found blocks just to screw the operator" heightend risk for PPS operations.
801 2011-06-01 06:00:43 hohoholol has joined
802 2011-06-01 06:00:44 <hohoholol> http://pastebin.com/aHfmiDdZ William Waisse (aka ne0futur) is a troll who spends his time trying desperately to censor discussions on the freenode irc network (in violation of freenode policy). here are the cunt's dox:
803 2011-06-01 06:00:44 <hohoholol> name: william waisse address: 1 rue Leon blum, 91130, Ris-Orangis, France tel: +33.681967610 emails: wwaisse@neofutur.net, william.waisse@gmail.com, neofutur@ww7.be, bc@ww7.be, neofutur@neofutur.net, wwaisse@esprit-equipe.fr, bitcoin.org@ww7.be, william@waisse.org http://www.viadeo.com/fr/profile/william.waisse
804 2011-06-01 06:00:44 <hohoholol> waisse's info will be recorded here. all this troll can prattle on about is why he wants ppl to stop discussing topics he dislikes lol:
805 2011-06-01 06:00:46 hohoholol has left ()
806 2011-06-01 06:01:09 hohoholol has joined
807 2011-06-01 06:01:10 <hohoholol> http://pastebin.com/aHfmiDdZ William Waisse (aka ne0futur) is a troll who spends his time trying desperately to censor discussions on the freenode irc network (in violation of freenode policy). here are the cunt's dox:
808 2011-06-01 06:01:10 <hohoholol> name: william waisse address: 1 rue Leon blum, 91130, Ris-Orangis, France tel: +33.681967610 emails: wwaisse@neofutur.net, william.waisse@gmail.com, neofutur@ww7.be, bc@ww7.be, neofutur@neofutur.net, wwaisse@esprit-equipe.fr, bitcoin.org@ww7.be, william@waisse.org http://www.viadeo.com/fr/profile/william.waisse
809 2011-06-01 06:01:10 <hohoholol> waisse's info will be recorded here. all this troll can prattle on about is why he wants ppl to stop discussing topics he dislikes lol:
810 2011-06-01 06:01:12 hohoholol has left ()
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816 2011-06-01 06:07:06 qwebirc80029 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
817 2011-06-01 06:07:32 fxmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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836 2011-06-01 06:23:32 <devrandom1> /ignore *!*@24-183-192-140.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com
837 2011-06-01 06:25:35 Marcel has joined
838 2011-06-01 06:26:22 <lfm> gmaxwell: what defence is there for the "I filtered out found blocks just to screw the
839 2011-06-01 06:26:24 <lfm> operator"
840 2011-06-01 06:26:29 reeses has joined
841 2011-06-01 06:34:51 ar4s has quit (Quit: bye)
842 2011-06-01 06:35:11 ar4s has joined
843 2011-06-01 06:36:44 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
844 2011-06-01 06:37:14 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
845 2011-06-01 06:37:22 Marcel has joined
846 2011-06-01 06:40:19 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
847 2011-06-01 06:40:42 <iz> lfm: it's not a constant keyspace
848 2011-06-01 06:41:32 bitcoiner has joined
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855 2011-06-01 06:59:00 qwebirc62929 has joined
856 2011-06-01 07:01:05 diki has joined
857 2011-06-01 07:01:31 <diki> so every possible nonce is tried for finding a block starting from 1?
858 2011-06-01 07:02:01 qwebirc62929 has quit (Client Quit)
859 2011-06-01 07:02:06 Jere_Jones has quit (Quit: Leaving)
860 2011-06-01 07:02:34 <diki> is it possible to start from say 30k?
861 2011-06-01 07:05:50 <phantomcircuit> diki, sure you can start from whatever you want
862 2011-06-01 07:06:44 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, you there?
863 2011-06-01 07:07:08 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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900 2011-06-01 08:03:26 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
901 2011-06-01 08:06:24 Xtians_R_Terrist has joined
902 2011-06-01 08:06:47 * Xtians_R_Terrist squats and logs on your log.
903 2011-06-01 08:07:40 nefario has joined
904 2011-06-01 08:08:01 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Have any environmentalist or celebrities come out against bitcoins for wasting electricity and emitting CO2?
905 2011-06-01 08:08:36 GarrettB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
906 2011-06-01 08:08:42 <Xtians_R_Terrist> "It's not a waste. It's a price for having decentralized cryptocurrency. Also, I don't get why a huge carbon dioxide footprint would be bad. Plants require carbon dioxide to conduct photosynthesis. More CO2 - more plants growth. Are you against nature?"
907 2011-06-01 08:08:44 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Hahaha.
908 2011-06-01 08:10:17 <Xtians_R_Terrist> 2000 Gigahash/s for a day ~48000kW
909 2011-06-01 08:11:47 <Xtians_R_Terrist> If 160 Watts will (on average) generate one bitcoin each 24 hours
910 2011-06-01 08:12:05 <Xtians_R_Terrist> How completely stupid and irresponsible.
911 2011-06-01 08:12:28 <Xtians_R_Terrist> As if you crackers don't already have too much money and waste too much energy.
912 2011-06-01 08:13:51 black888 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
913 2011-06-01 08:14:07 <ne0futur> Xtians_R_Terrist: compare it to http://gw.gd/backed_or_not and the ecological cost of paper for money
914 2011-06-01 08:14:47 <Xtians_R_Terrist> It is asinine to make something scarce by purposefully wasting resources.
915 2011-06-01 08:14:59 <Xtians_R_Terrist> There are other ways to make things scarce.
916 2011-06-01 08:15:09 <gjs278> turn off your AC and you can help offset some of our power usage
917 2011-06-01 08:15:29 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I live in Wyoming and it is about 30F.
918 2011-06-01 08:15:34 black888 has joined
919 2011-06-01 08:15:49 <Xtians_R_Terrist> How about you turn off your AC since you insist on making money by doing nothing?
920 2011-06-01 08:16:05 <gjs278> it's not 30F during the day
921 2011-06-01 08:16:11 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Kinda like welfare eh?
922 2011-06-01 08:16:20 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I am at work during the day and it's still not hot enough to run AC.
923 2011-06-01 08:16:53 <gjs278> turn off your monitor while you're typing
924 2011-06-01 08:17:03 <gjs278> and only turn it back on every so often to see my response
925 2011-06-01 08:17:05 <gjs278> I'll do the same
926 2011-06-01 08:17:19 <gjs278> together we can save the planet
927 2011-06-01 08:17:35 <z310> gjs278: let the troll be
928 2011-06-01 08:17:35 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Typing stupid things is a waste of your time and energy.
929 2011-06-01 08:17:58 <gjs278> I don't have limited energy
930 2011-06-01 08:18:07 <gjs278> I can just go eat something
931 2011-06-01 08:18:11 <gjs278> and I will gain that energy back
932 2011-06-01 08:18:38 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Did you read what I wrote about stupid things?
933 2011-06-01 08:18:42 <Xtians_R_Terrist> That was the important part.
934 2011-06-01 08:19:53 zamgo has left ()
935 2011-06-01 08:20:14 <z310> <Xtians_R_Terrist> Typing stupid things is a waste of your time and energy.
936 2011-06-01 08:20:21 <z310> What is your intention of being here, Xtians_R_Terrist?
937 2011-06-01 08:21:08 <gjs278> Xtians_R_Terrist is making me realize the error of my ways
938 2011-06-01 08:21:10 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Save the environment.
939 2011-06-01 08:21:40 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Does the power company accept bitcoins?
940 2011-06-01 08:21:45 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
941 2011-06-01 08:21:59 dizzyd has joined
942 2011-06-01 08:22:25 <z310> Do you really expect make any impact here, Xtians_R_Terrist?
943 2011-06-01 08:23:10 <gjs278> this project is just a front for comed
944 2011-06-01 08:23:14 <gjs278> he's unraveled the lies
945 2011-06-01 08:23:25 <gjs278> it's all going to come crashing downn ow
946 2011-06-01 08:23:31 <Xtians_R_Terrist> The current method of coin minting is similar to a currency based on photographs of burned wheat. People grow wheat, burn it, and take photos of the burned wheat to prove that it was really grown and burnt, and then use the photographs as a medium of exchange.
947 2011-06-01 08:23:36 <ersi> Oh shit, I didn't realise!
948 2011-06-01 08:24:07 <midnightmagic> Argh! Photoshoppers are suddenly rich!
949 2011-06-01 08:24:32 <gjs278> personally I eat my wheat and then use the picture as currency
950 2011-06-01 08:24:43 <midnightmagic> Are you smiling in it?
951 2011-06-01 08:25:04 <gjs278> that would devalue it
952 2011-06-01 08:26:04 <z310> Xtians_R_Terrist: energy companies burn the wheat. we're making it useful.
953 2011-06-01 08:26:05 <midnightmagic> surely not. you're a photoshopper! you could just use the pinch and warp tools to make yourself look like nick nolte.
954 2011-06-01 08:26:56 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I understand that the incredibly thermodynamic inefficiency I was complaining about is in fact very deliberate, and bitcoin might be said to waste as much energy as possible, as a security feature!
955 2011-06-01 08:27:20 <midnightmagic> Or.. dun dun DUNNNN as *little* as possible! how's that for mind-bending?
956 2011-06-01 08:27:43 <midnightmagic> You couldn't get more bent if you popped a half dozen tabs of LSD!
957 2011-06-01 08:28:26 <midnightmagic> After buying them with ฿!
958 2011-06-01 08:28:36 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Now it's about competing botnets providing a secure and reliable foundation for an open currency. Yeah, they're stealing the electricity and yeah, they're profiting
959 2011-06-01 08:28:57 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Oh, I've taken way more than 6 hits of LSD.
960 2011-06-01 08:29:02 <midnightmagic> What's a botnet?
961 2011-06-01 08:29:17 <midnightmagic> And, HAH! Fooled ya! I meant a *baker's* dozen.
962 2011-06-01 08:30:04 <intelliot> how does the difficulty readjustment work? i guess it must be something the clients do. what if there is disagreement about what the new difficulty should be?
963 2011-06-01 08:30:20 <midnightmagic> intelliot: it's deterministic.
964 2011-06-01 08:30:28 <intelliot> does the miner who successfully creates the 2,016th block set the new difficulty?
965 2011-06-01 08:30:33 <midnightmagic> no.
966 2011-06-01 08:30:52 <midnightmagic> everyone does it all at once.
967 2011-06-01 08:31:37 Phoebus has joined
968 2011-06-01 08:31:50 <intelliot> how does bitcoin prevent some rogue, maliciously-modified miners from changing the difficulty calculation formula?
969 2011-06-01 08:31:55 ar4s has quit (Quit: bye)
970 2011-06-01 08:32:14 <theorbtwo> Xtians_R_Terrist: The thing is, you are, in a way, right. If there was a better way of doing it, we'd be doing it that way, but there isn't.
971 2011-06-01 08:32:16 ar4s has joined
972 2011-06-01 08:32:43 <Phoebus> intelliot, no.
973 2011-06-01 08:32:49 <midnightmagic> theorbtwo: also, we are in a race towards the most efficient use of power for the task at hand, too. also, why are you feeding the troll? :)
974 2011-06-01 08:33:13 intelmeth has joined
975 2011-06-01 08:33:19 <theorbtwo> intelliot: Because the non-rogue users would refuse to accept those blocks.
976 2011-06-01 08:33:21 <midnightmagic> intelliot: sure, he could do that. and then if he ever managed to mine a block, everyone else would just ignore him.
977 2011-06-01 08:33:29 <theorbtwo> ...and thus the coins would be un-spendable.
978 2011-06-01 08:33:38 <intelmeth> hey guys can i copy blk0001.dat from one computer to another to save time catching up on the block chain?
979 2011-06-01 08:33:39 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Don't do it at all. You have too much money already.
980 2011-06-01 08:33:50 <midnightmagic> "lol you minez a block for lower difficulty, you fail our proof-of-work test. block denied!"
981 2011-06-01 08:34:42 zyb has joined
982 2011-06-01 08:34:52 <theorbtwo> midnightmagic: I'm feeding the troll because doing so encourages other people to have an intelegent conversation, rather then making false statements in order to counter the statements of the troll.
983 2011-06-01 08:35:28 <midnightmagic> theorbtwo: I'm not making false statements. A baker's dozen really doesn't have 12 in it..
984 2011-06-01 08:35:49 <theorbtwo> midnightmagic: Indeed. A baker's dozen is 13.
985 2011-06-01 08:35:57 <midnightmagic> theorbtwo: or 14, depending on your source.
986 2011-06-01 08:36:13 <intelliot> silly bakers
987 2011-06-01 08:36:19 <intelliot> thanks for the info y'all
988 2011-06-01 08:36:29 <Xtians_R_Terrist> USA 40% of world's resources, 5% of its people, now you want to get rich doing nothing by burning coal, emitting particulate, SOx, CO, O3, NOx, neurotoxic Hg, radioactive elements, strip mining, fly ash disposal, destruction of virgin forest, etc. etc. etc. 30,000 deaths attributed to air pollution from coal annually. How many bitcoins is a life worth?
989 2011-06-01 08:36:46 <midnightmagic> Well there's definitely something being emitted..
990 2011-06-01 08:36:48 <Xtians_R_Terrist> How many coal miners died this year so you could sit on your ass?
991 2011-06-01 08:37:21 <midnightmagic> And I would also point out that 50-yr-old hydroelectric dams barely emit that crap at all. so there.
992 2011-06-01 08:37:57 <midnightmagic> And the Japanese are using clean nuclear power.
993 2011-06-01 08:38:04 <Xtians_R_Terrist> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/30/us-coal-mine-deaths-in-20_n_802790.html
994 2011-06-01 08:38:23 <Xtians_R_Terrist> If you waste renewable power on bittcoins you make up the difference with non-renewable power.
995 2011-06-01 08:38:46 <Xtians_R_Terrist> And hydroelectric dams emit huge amounts of CH4 due to decomposing vegetation which decays in anaerobic conditions.
996 2011-06-01 08:39:04 <RAM2012> Xtian how you feel about nuclear?
997 2011-06-01 08:39:04 <midnightmagic> Wait, wait.. lemme think about that a second. My brain is hurting. I.. make up.. the difference.. between.. what I'm doing and.. something nebulous.. with.. non-renewable "power"?
998 2011-06-01 08:39:08 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Cement used to build dams is also a huge source of CO2.
999 2011-06-01 08:39:18 <Xtians_R_Terrist> We have 100 year reserve of uranium at current utilization.
1000 2011-06-01 08:39:23 <midnightmagic> Actually 50-yr-old ones don't! Nyah nyah
1001 2011-06-01 08:39:45 <RAM2012> coal and oil are bad, nuclear solar and wind are better
1002 2011-06-01 08:40:03 draag has joined
1003 2011-06-01 08:40:05 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Yes. Invest in wind and solar, not bitcoins.
1004 2011-06-01 08:40:06 <midnightmagic> too bad solar don't work so well above the equator..
1005 2011-06-01 08:40:07 <RAM2012> but its an energy industry issue, not a technology issue
1006 2011-06-01 08:40:18 <iera_> Xtians_R_Terrist: i agree with your statements, but compare us bitcoiners with all the banking-related computers on the world
1007 2011-06-01 08:40:34 <Xtians_R_Terrist> You are rationalizing your waste by saying it doesn't matter because others waste.
1008 2011-06-01 08:40:41 <Xtians_R_Terrist> They can now say the same thing about you.
1009 2011-06-01 08:40:50 <RAM2012> all living things creatre waste in order to live xtian
1010 2011-06-01 08:40:55 <midnightmagic> I demand you say the same thing about us!
1011 2011-06-01 08:41:02 draaglom has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1012 2011-06-01 08:41:04 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Right and we're all going to die so we should just nuke the whole fucking thing.
1013 2011-06-01 08:41:06 <midnightmagic> Bitcoin! Is alive!
1014 2011-06-01 08:41:40 <midnightmagic> Hey, I happen to like living out on my rock. Go nuke someone else.
1015 2011-06-01 08:41:59 <RAM2012> so now you've gone from clean energy advocate to holocaust advocate
1016 2011-06-01 08:42:04 qwebirc97013 has joined
1017 2011-06-01 08:42:16 <RAM2012> logic does amazing things, eh?
1018 2011-06-01 08:42:18 <midnightmagic> Yeah, brutal. Next he'll be calling us anti-nazi.
1019 2011-06-01 08:42:25 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I was responding to your claim that we all waste and therefore it is okay that we waste for no reason.
1020 2011-06-01 08:42:27 Phoebus_ has joined
1021 2011-06-01 08:42:36 <midnightmagic> And won't SOMEone think of the bears?!
1022 2011-06-01 08:42:44 <RAM2012> I'm not saying that it is ok to waste for no reason
1023 2011-06-01 08:42:54 Phoebus has quit (Disconnected by services)
1024 2011-06-01 08:42:58 Phoebus_ is now known as Phoebus
1025 2011-06-01 08:43:01 <Xtians_R_Terrist> What did this mean: <RAM2012> all living things creatre waste in order to live xtian
1026 2011-06-01 08:43:04 <midnightmagic> And I'm not not saying he's a baker's dozen short of a rack!
1027 2011-06-01 08:43:07 <RAM2012> but you are railing against a new technology, rather than addressing the point of energy production method
1028 2011-06-01 08:43:16 <Xtians_R_Terrist> How many other species are producing bitcoins because they don't ahve enough money already?
1029 2011-06-01 08:43:23 <midnightmagic> Greys!
1030 2011-06-01 08:43:25 <midnightmagic> Hah.. easy one.
1031 2011-06-01 08:43:52 <RAM2012> are you arguing for animal rights now?
1032 2011-06-01 08:43:56 <Xtians_R_Terrist> RAM2012, you are creating a new technology which makes the energy issues worse without addressing energy production.
1033 2011-06-01 08:43:57 <RAM2012> I can't follow you
1034 2011-06-01 08:44:09 <midnightmagic> Like I said.. he's thinking of the bears. The.. BitBears.
1035 2011-06-01 08:44:12 <RAM2012> all new technologies would fall under that claim
1036 2011-06-01 08:44:26 <thermal> Xtians_R_Terrist: http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/uranium.aspx
1037 2011-06-01 08:44:26 <Xtians_R_Terrist> All new technologies make energy problems worse?
1038 2011-06-01 08:44:34 <thermal> "In summary, the actual recoverable uranium supply is likely to be enough to last several hundred (up to 1000) years, even using standard reactors"
1039 2011-06-01 08:44:43 <thermal> i believe you are wrong, sir
1040 2011-06-01 08:44:43 <Xtians_R_Terrist> thermal, I am an engineer and know what reserves are.
1041 2011-06-01 08:44:50 <RAM2012> breeder reactors create their own new fuel
1042 2011-06-01 08:44:51 <midnightmagic> But he's thinking of the bears!
1043 2011-06-01 08:44:53 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Your source is not a scientific one.
1044 2011-06-01 08:45:04 <thermal> Xtians_R_Terrist: I am a chef and know what sources are.
1045 2011-06-01 08:45:05 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Please find one that is credible.
1046 2011-06-01 08:45:15 <ArtForz> no true scotsman
1047 2011-06-01 08:45:16 <midnightmagic> Hail to the Chef!
1048 2011-06-01 08:45:21 <thermal> :D
1049 2011-06-01 08:45:34 <RAM2012> ;;ignore Xtians_R_Terrist
1050 2011-06-01 08:45:35 <thermal> Xtians_R_Terrist: I gave a source
1051 2011-06-01 08:45:36 <Xtians_R_Terrist> And when they say supply will last x years they are using current consumption which is like 15% of world energy total.
1052 2011-06-01 08:45:44 <thermal> how about you provide a source for your figure?
1053 2011-06-01 08:45:53 <ArtForz> all sources that disagree with me are [industry shills|econazis|whatever]
1054 2011-06-01 08:45:56 <thermal> i don't really care what the source is, any will do
1055 2011-06-01 08:46:00 <midnightmagic> Only 15? Surely at least 16 now with all the miners gulping power like mad..
1056 2011-06-01 08:46:13 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I knkow you don't care because you just posted a trade group's nonsense.
1057 2011-06-01 08:46:16 Stellar has joined
1058 2011-06-01 08:46:21 <ArtForz> also, current nukes are inefficient as hell
1059 2011-06-01 08:46:32 <ArtForz> < 15% burn ratio without reprocessing
1060 2011-06-01 08:46:35 <thermal> so you're *not* going to provide a source for your figure of 100 years?
1061 2011-06-01 08:46:54 <Xtians_R_Terrist> What do I get if I do?
1062 2011-06-01 08:47:07 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Are you going to shut off your bitcoin generating waste machine?
1063 2011-06-01 08:47:07 <thermal> you avoid looking like an idiot
1064 2011-06-01 08:47:08 <midnightmagic> Assertions make an ass of.. . her.. and.. uh.. ian!
1065 2011-06-01 08:47:13 <thermal> although it may already be too late for that
1066 2011-06-01 08:47:20 <Xtians_R_Terrist> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/30/us-coal-mine-deaths-in-20_n_802790.html
1067 2011-06-01 08:47:27 <thermal> is that your source?
1068 2011-06-01 08:47:40 <midnightmagic> All hail the great Huffer!
1069 2011-06-01 08:47:47 <midnightmagic> And Snoo-Snoo all around!
1070 2011-06-01 08:47:49 <ArtForz> with reprocessing and breeders this can be easily boosted to > 90%, but thats not really an option thanks to proliferation concerns
1071 2011-06-01 08:47:50 davout has joined
1072 2011-06-01 08:47:55 <thermal> huffington post is worth like ~$300M USD
1073 2011-06-01 08:48:00 <davout> hey all
1074 2011-06-01 08:48:00 <thermal> that's awesome. :D
1075 2011-06-01 08:48:05 sgornick has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1076 2011-06-01 08:48:06 <thermal> hey davout
1077 2011-06-01 08:48:08 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
1078 2011-06-01 08:48:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 127931 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 1092 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 14 hours, 20 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 499899.22428189
1079 2011-06-01 08:48:13 <midnightmagic> $300m? Why the heck are their articles so lame then?
1080 2011-06-01 08:48:15 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
1081 2011-06-01 08:48:15 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.4998,"low":8.1,"vol":46843,"buy":8.72,"sell":8.748,"last":8.72}}
1082 2011-06-01 08:48:37 <thermal> Xtians_R_Terrist: problem finding a source?
1083 2011-06-01 08:48:48 <davout> i have a question, hoped someone could help me find an answer
1084 2011-06-01 08:49:01 <thermal> shoot
1085 2011-06-01 08:49:06 <davout> so i've setup jgarzik's pushpool
1086 2011-06-01 08:49:11 <davout> pointed it at testnet
1087 2011-06-01 08:49:21 <Xtians_R_Terrist> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_uranium
1088 2011-06-01 08:49:23 intelmeth has quit (Quit: intelmeth)
1089 2011-06-01 08:49:25 <davout> wondering how to properly detect new blocks
1090 2011-06-01 08:49:28 <Xtians_R_Terrist> That will give you a range of estimates.
1091 2011-06-01 08:49:59 <Xtians_R_Terrist> In 2006, about 4 million tons of conventional resources were thought to be sufficient at current consumption rates for about six decades (4.06 million tonnes at 65,000 tones per year)
1092 2011-06-01 08:50:02 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Is one.
1093 2011-06-01 08:50:24 <davout> so i've started assuming that a share is marked with "upstream_result" = "Y" must be a block generation
1094 2011-06-01 08:50:27 <Xtians_R_Terrist> From a peer reviewed journal if you care to chase.
1095 2011-06-01 08:50:39 <davout> so i've looked the result up on bbe/testnet
1096 2011-06-01 08:50:40 <midnightmagic> Ooh! Ooh! I care!
1097 2011-06-01 08:50:51 <midnightmagic> Oh.. wait.. no, I don't. Drat.
1098 2011-06-01 08:50:54 <davout> w no results
1099 2011-06-01 08:51:02 ar4s has quit (Quit: bye)
1100 2011-06-01 08:51:22 ar4s has joined
1101 2011-06-01 08:51:31 <davout> so basically, the share result hash doesn't really look like a block hash anyway
1102 2011-06-01 08:51:37 <davout> so 'im pretty much stuck here
1103 2011-06-01 08:51:40 <thermal> Xtians_R_Terrist: thank you
1104 2011-06-01 08:52:01 sipa has left ()
1105 2011-06-01 08:52:21 <davout> so i'm wondering about how to fetch block info from a supposedly correct share solution, anyone has an idea ?
1106 2011-06-01 08:52:31 qwebirc97013 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1107 2011-06-01 08:52:31 <midnightmagic> lol, so.. are you saying there are only 6.66 million tonnes of uranium in the entire world?
1108 2011-06-01 08:52:53 <Diablo-D3> that sounds overly high, actually
1109 2011-06-01 08:53:19 <ar4s> are there any mac users here that also happen to be using colloquy?
1110 2011-06-01 08:53:20 <Diablo-D3> theres probably only 6 million tons of fissionable material
1111 2011-06-01 08:53:38 <ArtForz> also note that the "peak uranium" estimates are for U235
1112 2011-06-01 08:53:43 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Do you know what a ton is and do you know a million is?
1113 2011-06-01 08:54:04 <Diablo-D3> Xtians_R_Terrist: and do you know what a large scale high pressure breeder reactor is?
1114 2011-06-01 08:54:09 <ArtForz> as in "no one will build breeders. ever."
1115 2011-06-01 08:54:17 nefario has left ()
1116 2011-06-01 08:54:23 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Diablo-D3, do you know of one in operation and producing net energy?
1117 2011-06-01 08:54:29 <ar4s> Diablo-D3: Have you heard about Thorium? or Liquid thorium reactors?
1118 2011-06-01 08:54:34 <Diablo-D3> Xtians_R_Terrist: you mean besides Earth itself?
1119 2011-06-01 08:54:35 <Xtians_R_Terrist> No thorium reactors.
1120 2011-06-01 08:54:40 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Go read.
1121 2011-06-01 08:55:06 <Diablo-D3> ar4s: thorium looks to be quite useful as the next gen tech
1122 2011-06-01 08:55:11 <ar4s> Xtians_R_Terrist: You mean they haven't been built or...?
1123 2011-06-01 08:55:24 <Xtians_R_Terrist> It's cute how you non-scientists find nuclear power so exciting because it makes your country a superpower and allows you to stay up all night since you don't need to work...
1124 2011-06-01 08:55:32 <Xtians_R_Terrist> But you might try reading some actual science and not science fiction.
1125 2011-06-01 08:55:39 <Diablo-D3> ahh, Xtians_R_Terrist is a troll.
1126 2011-06-01 08:55:44 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I am not a troll.
1127 2011-06-01 08:55:46 <ArtForz> yup, troll
1128 2011-06-01 08:55:48 <midnightmagic> "My" country?!
1129 2011-06-01 08:55:50 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I am an engineer and an environmentalist.
1130 2011-06-01 08:55:52 <ersi> TRololol
1131 2011-06-01 08:55:53 * Diablo-D3 reads whitepapers and shits science.
1132 2011-06-01 08:55:53 <ersi> trolol
1133 2011-06-01 08:55:54 <ar4s> Diablo-D3: trollololololol
1134 2011-06-01 08:55:55 <ersi> trololol
1135 2011-06-01 08:55:58 <ArtForz> trollololo
1136 2011-06-01 08:55:59 <ersi> trolollololol
1137 2011-06-01 08:56:04 <ersi> etc
1138 2011-06-01 08:56:05 <Xtians_R_Terrist> You are children who think technology you don't know anything about is inevitably going to save us.
1139 2011-06-01 08:56:19 <Xtians_R_Terrist> It isn't going to save us becasue it doesn't work or we would already be using it.
1140 2011-06-01 08:56:23 <Diablo-D3> It sounds like someone shit in Xtians_R_Terrist's cheerios today
1141 2011-06-01 08:56:25 <ersi> Live fast, die young. TRUST YOUR TECNOLUST
1142 2011-06-01 08:56:26 <ArtForz> yes, save us, oh great leader!
1143 2011-06-01 08:56:27 <midnightmagic> Is that an English sentence?
1144 2011-06-01 08:56:30 <ar4s> Xtians_R_Terrist: I trust the scientists who can build it, more than I trust you.
1145 2011-06-01 08:56:34 <Diablo-D3> Xtians_R_Terrist: actually, thorium reactors DO work
1146 2011-06-01 08:56:38 <Xtians_R_Terrist> No, they don't.
1147 2011-06-01 08:56:40 <ArtForz> Diablo-D3: yup
1148 2011-06-01 08:56:44 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Cite a reactor.
1149 2011-06-01 08:56:48 <ersi> Xtians_R_Terrist: Way to go, you made us all change our minds now!
1150 2011-06-01 08:56:52 <theorbtwo> Xtians_R_Terrist: By that argument, all progress is impossible.
1151 2011-06-01 08:56:53 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I know the article you'r reading.
1152 2011-06-01 08:56:58 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Read the rest.
1153 2011-06-01 08:57:03 <midnightmagic> I definitely trust Xtians_R_Terrist.. I mean, just look at the name. It screams reliable.
1154 2011-06-01 08:57:09 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1155 2011-06-01 08:57:16 <Xtians_R_Terrist> theorbtwo, by your argument any progress is possible no matter how impossible.
1156 2011-06-01 08:57:19 <theorbtwo> 150 years ago, cars were impossible, because if they were possible, we'd already be using them.
1157 2011-06-01 08:57:29 <Xtians_R_Terrist> 150 years ago they had steam powered cars.
1158 2011-06-01 08:57:33 <ersi> Xtians_R_Terrist: Derpa derp a derp trolollol herp herp a derp
1159 2011-06-01 08:57:47 <Diablo-D3> 60 years ago, space flight was impoissible, because if we were supposed to be in space God would have shoved rockets up our asses
1160 2011-06-01 08:57:51 <theorbtwo> Xtians_R_Terrist: They were horribly unsafe and unreliable.
1161 2011-06-01 08:57:52 <Xtians_R_Terrist> 100 years ago we had fuel cells.
1162 2011-06-01 08:58:06 <ArtForz> yep, "no one built a large scale power reactor yet" = "can't be done". obvious...
1163 2011-06-01 08:58:08 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Cars are still horribly unsafe. Go read about how many people die every year in them.
1164 2011-06-01 08:58:30 <theorbtwo> Xtians_R_Terrist: Yeah. Per mile, they are amazingly safe, compared to steam cars.
1165 2011-06-01 08:58:52 <Xtians_R_Terrist> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-long-will-global-uranium-deposits-last
1166 2011-06-01 08:59:01 <Xtians_R_Terrist> That is science fiction that looks like science.
1167 2011-06-01 08:59:04 <Diablo-D3> Xtians_R_Terrist: anyhow, you ARE aware that there have been several experimental next generation thorium reactors, right?
1168 2011-06-01 08:59:10 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I am sorry you do not understand the difference.
1169 2011-06-01 08:59:15 <Xtians_R_Terrist> There have been experimental reactors, yes.
1170 2011-06-01 08:59:19 <Diablo-D3> they ran the MSRE for 5 years.
1171 2011-06-01 08:59:20 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Show me one that worked.
1172 2011-06-01 08:59:27 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Why did it stop?
1173 2011-06-01 08:59:34 <Diablo-D3> experiment was over.
1174 2011-06-01 08:59:34 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I am going to make you look like an ass if we continue.
1175 2011-06-01 08:59:41 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Experiment isn't what you think it was.
1176 2011-06-01 08:59:43 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Go read more.
1177 2011-06-01 08:59:46 <ArtForz> and again, nice article. ignoring breeders.
1178 2011-06-01 09:00:15 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I am going to leave because none of you want to learn, you just want to be right.
1179 2011-06-01 09:00:17 <midnightmagic> 60,000 years from uranium in seawater.
1180 2011-06-01 09:00:20 <midnightmagic> Now that's awesome.
1181 2011-06-01 09:00:23 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Goodbye doomed idiots.
1182 2011-06-01 09:00:28 <midnightmagic> I don't want to be right!
1183 2011-06-01 09:00:28 <ArtForz> Xtians_R_Terrist: good idea. bye.
1184 2011-06-01 09:00:35 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Yes, it is easy to extract uranium from seawater.
1185 2011-06-01 09:00:37 <midnightmagic> Wait, stay! I'm not done asking you about the Bears!!
1186 2011-06-01 09:00:45 <Xtians_R_Terrist> So easy you will make more money than in the bitcoin market.
1187 2011-06-01 09:00:48 <midnightmagic> the.. BITBears!
1188 2011-06-01 09:01:16 <midnightmagic> Who mine bitcoins in the forest where nobody can hear them, or cares.
1189 2011-06-01 09:01:40 <Xtians_R_Terrist> http://www.ieer.org/fctsheet/thorium2009factsheet.pdf\
1190 2011-06-01 09:01:44 <Xtians_R_Terrist> http://www.ieer.org/fctsheet/thorium2009factsheet.pdf
1191 2011-06-01 09:01:53 <midnightmagic> Hey that's not a factsheet about bears.
1192 2011-06-01 09:02:00 slush1 has joined
1193 2011-06-01 09:02:09 <midnightmagic> And it's much more correct with the trailing backslash.
1194 2011-06-01 09:02:50 <Diablo-D3> Im not going to read that PDF.
1195 2011-06-01 09:02:56 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Research and development of thorium fuel has been undertaken in Germany, India, Japan,
1196 2011-06-01 09:02:56 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Russia, the UK and the U.S. for more than half a century.
1197 2011-06-01 09:02:59 ar4s has quit (Quit: bye)
1198 2011-06-01 09:03:13 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I knew that which is why I am reading it for you.
1199 2011-06-01 09:03:18 ar4s has joined
1200 2011-06-01 09:04:25 <midnightmagic> But.. the bears?
1201 2011-06-01 09:05:06 <Xtians_R_Terrist> The MSRE was a 7.4 MWth test reactor simulating the neutronic "kernel" of an inherently safe epithermal thorium breeder reactor. It used three fuels: plutonium-239, uranium-235 and uranium-233. The last, 233UF4 was the result of breeding from thorium. Since this was an engineering test, the large, expensive breeding blanket of thorium salt was omitted in favor of neutron measurements.
1202 2011-06-01 09:05:32 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Diablo-D3, do you see how that says they didn't even use thorium?
1203 2011-06-01 09:05:58 <Xtians_R_Terrist> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten-Salt_Reactor_Experiment
1204 2011-06-01 09:06:02 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I told you to look for a reason.
1205 2011-06-01 09:06:23 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Reason was: I read shit.
1206 2011-06-01 09:06:30 <midnightmagic> How true, how true.
1207 2011-06-01 09:06:32 <midnightmagic> *snif*
1208 2011-06-01 09:06:33 <Diablo-D3> Xtians_R_Terrist: yes, it was a test reactor.
1209 2011-06-01 09:07:11 <midnightmagic> Wikipedia: 100% accuracy since DAY ONE!
1210 2011-06-01 09:07:23 qwebirc68326 has joined
1211 2011-06-01 09:07:50 <Xtians_R_Terrist> After shutdown the salt was believed to be in long-term safe storage, but beginning in the mid-1980s, there was concern that radioactivity was migrating through the system. Sampling in 1994 revealed concentrations of uranium that created a potential for a nuclear criticality accident, as well as a potentially dangerous build-up of fluorine gas â the environment above the solidified salt
1212 2011-06-01 09:07:50 <Xtians_R_Terrist> is approximately one atmosphere of fluorine. The ensuing decontamination and decommissioning project was called "the most technically challenging" activity assigned to Bechtel Jacobs under its environmental management contract with the U.S. Department of Energy's Oak Ridge Operations organization. In 2003, the MSRE cleanup project was estimated at about $130 million, with decommissioning
1213 2011-06-01 09:07:50 <Xtians_R_Terrist> expected to be completed in 2009.[17
1214 2011-06-01 09:07:55 <Xtians_R_Terrist> oops.
1215 2011-06-01 09:08:01 <midnightmagic> oOOooo and a pastebin newb!
1216 2011-06-01 09:08:07 <midnightmagic> You.. are my hero.
1217 2011-06-01 09:08:13 ar4s has quit (Quit: bye)
1218 2011-06-01 09:08:26 <Xtians_R_Terrist> midnightmagic, are you a sarcasm bot?
1219 2011-06-01 09:08:29 <midnightmagic> No, seriously. My hero. My.. super, shit-reading hero.
1220 2011-06-01 09:08:33 ar4s has joined
1221 2011-06-01 09:08:50 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Seriously?
1222 2011-06-01 09:09:08 <midnightmagic> You read shit, and you smear it all through the channel.
1223 2011-06-01 09:09:09 <Xtians_R_Terrist> You mean it isn't the same thing line after line after line of meaningless nonsense?
1224 2011-06-01 09:09:21 <Phoebus> And don't know how to google: pastebin
1225 2011-06-01 09:09:23 <Phoebus> :P
1226 2011-06-01 09:09:23 <Xtians_R_Terrist> midnightmagic ignored.
1227 2011-06-01 09:09:29 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Why would I do that?
1228 2011-06-01 09:09:37 <midnightmagic> lol
1229 2011-06-01 09:09:39 <midnightmagic> I win!
1230 2011-06-01 09:09:44 <Phoebus> ^
1231 2011-06-01 09:09:55 <Diablo-D3> Xtians_R_Terrist: so you're bitching that a reactor built in the 60s and did its experiment correctly cost money to decomission?
1232 2011-06-01 09:09:59 <midnightmagic> Oh, you all didn't know it was a race?
1233 2011-06-01 09:10:01 <Diablo-D3> lol republicans
1234 2011-06-01 09:10:14 HexLaTor has joined
1235 2011-06-01 09:10:48 sgornick has joined
1236 2011-06-01 09:11:26 <Diablo-D3> the only problem I see with thorium is the political issues
1237 2011-06-01 09:11:44 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Diablo-D3, it has never worked.
1238 2011-06-01 09:11:46 <Diablo-D3> politicians are idiots and should be kept a safe distance from any science or military weapons
1239 2011-06-01 09:11:47 mosimo has joined
1240 2011-06-01 09:11:48 m00p has joined
1241 2011-06-01 09:11:58 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Diablo-D3, what is your degree in?
1242 2011-06-01 09:12:13 <Diablo-D3> Xtians_R_Terrist: you mean "work" as in produce electrical power? they sure as hell did work.
1243 2011-06-01 09:12:20 <intelliot> what's the easiest way for me to send someone a Satoshi (0.00000001 BTC) with no fee?
1244 2011-06-01 09:12:31 <Xtians_R_Terrist> It had no thorium you bloody retard.
1245 2011-06-01 09:12:40 <intelliot> (i want to give a small tip to a content writer)
1246 2011-06-01 09:12:45 <ArtForz> Xtians_R_Terrist: ad hominem. great argument. *plonk*
1247 2011-06-01 09:12:53 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: I demand you work hard to put yourself in his /ignore list.
1248 2011-06-01 09:12:58 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Patrick McFarland, Port East.
1249 2011-06-01 09:13:05 <midnightmagic> Do it.. for the Bears.
1250 2011-06-01 09:13:06 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Nice move there Patrick, using your real name on irc.
1251 2011-06-01 09:13:13 <Xtians_R_Terrist> You are one smart guy.
1252 2011-06-01 09:13:18 <Diablo-D3> man, they dont make trolls the way they used to
1253 2011-06-01 09:13:50 <Diablo-D3> midnightmagic: now watch, hes going to google me next.
1254 2011-06-01 09:14:02 <ArtForz> löl
1255 2011-06-01 09:14:08 <theorbtwo> Diablo-D3: Sadly, political issues often are of major importance. For example, it's a political issue when countries we don't like seem to have materials that could be used to build bombs.
1256 2011-06-01 09:14:36 <theorbtwo> I am James Mastros, of Swindon, UK, BTW. I have no fear over my real name being available.
1257 2011-06-01 09:14:40 <Diablo-D3> theorbtwo: this is true.
1258 2011-06-01 09:14:59 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I'm going to look up what your degree is because you won't tell me because it isn't science and probably isn't a degree.
1259 2011-06-01 09:15:01 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: yeah, i remember the good ol' days. Where trolls were so good nobody knew they were trolling.. There's no subtlety these days.
1260 2011-06-01 09:15:05 HexLaTor has quit (Quit: Quitte)
1261 2011-06-01 09:15:38 <midnightmagic> Holy crap! He can scan all universities and post-sec institutions with a single bound!
1262 2011-06-01 09:15:48 <midnightmagic> â¥
1263 2011-06-01 09:15:49 <theorbtwo> Strange. I remember the bad old days when trolls were all people just ouputting lots of text into a channel. Bad ascii art, mostly.
1264 2011-06-01 09:16:03 <Diablo-D3> ahh, the old hitler portraits
1265 2011-06-01 09:16:07 <Phoebus> My degree is better than yours.
1266 2011-06-01 09:16:09 <Phoebus> I mean...
1267 2011-06-01 09:16:16 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Flooding is not trolling.
1268 2011-06-01 09:16:23 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Neither is having opinions that are not popular.
1269 2011-06-01 09:16:27 <Phoebus> No, but trolling is trolling.
1270 2011-06-01 09:16:30 <midnightmagic> no, those were just kids. the real trolls were practically invisible. I haven't seen a real troll in a couple years. They were truly glorious to behold.. they elevated it to an art form.
1271 2011-06-01 09:16:33 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Brilliant.
1272 2011-06-01 09:17:15 <Phoebus> Xtians_R_Terrist, ok want something more elegant? Don't do an ad-hominem attack when what your co-speaker says does not agree with you. Attack the argument with a proper counter.
1273 2011-06-01 09:17:21 brooss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1274 2011-06-01 09:17:37 brooss has joined
1275 2011-06-01 09:19:40 <Xtians_R_Terrist> No.
1276 2011-06-01 09:19:52 <midnightmagic> ah, boring. I always have such high hopes.. and they always just.. let me down. Such crushing disappointment must be drowned. IN RUM.
1277 2011-06-01 09:19:57 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Why are you speaking in Latin?
1278 2011-06-01 09:20:00 <Phoebus> An equal non statement: Being. (Parmenides)
1279 2011-06-01 09:21:20 <midnightmagic> I shall guzzle me an Appleton, and toast to my eventual future-friends-in-eco-terror-currency..
1280 2011-06-01 09:21:30 <Phoebus> Xtians_R_Terrist, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
1281 2011-06-01 09:22:27 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Phoebus, I know what ad hominem is and an insult is not a fallacy, nor does it need to be described in Latin.
1282 2011-06-01 09:22:54 zyb has joined
1283 2011-06-01 09:23:00 <Phoebus> "insult is not a fallacy" of what kind?
1284 2011-06-01 09:23:14 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Shut up you liberal arts waste.
1285 2011-06-01 09:23:19 <gjs278> technically pointing out a fallacy is a fallacy
1286 2011-06-01 09:23:32 <Phoebus> gjs278, intersting, on what basis?
1287 2011-06-01 09:23:51 <midnightmagic> yeah, which one? :)
1288 2011-06-01 09:23:59 <gjs278> it's in the list somewhere
1289 2011-06-01 09:24:32 compgenius999 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1290 2011-06-01 09:24:35 <midnightmagic> But to attack the logical basis of a statement is to undermine the statement's consistency and is thus a valid form of argument..?
1291 2011-06-01 09:24:50 <Phoebus> Yeah.
1292 2011-06-01 09:25:15 <Phoebus> Xtians_R_Terrist has no other purpose but to troll, and just say Science>Arts. Even though I have a Science degree :P
1293 2011-06-01 09:25:28 <Phoebus> End of story, back to work.
1294 2011-06-01 09:25:29 <midnightmagic> you're good. I shall tip my toddy to you tonight also.
1295 2011-06-01 09:25:34 <Phoebus> :)
1296 2011-06-01 09:25:42 <Xtians_R_Terrist> irc at work eh?
1297 2011-06-01 09:25:43 <Phoebus> Cheers m8.
1298 2011-06-01 09:25:48 <midnightmagic> \o
1299 2011-06-01 09:25:54 <Xtians_R_Terrist> heh.
1300 2011-06-01 09:25:56 <gjs278> irc looks like code compiling if everyone types fast enough
1301 2011-06-01 09:25:58 <Xtians_R_Terrist> I know what kind of scientist you are.
1302 2011-06-01 09:26:09 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, lol
1303 2011-06-01 09:26:16 <gjs278> CC trolling.o
1304 2011-06-01 09:26:16 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Oh, British.
1305 2011-06-01 09:26:24 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Gotta hate that.
1306 2011-06-01 09:26:32 <Xtians_R_Terrist> Well fuck y'all.
1307 2011-06-01 09:26:40 Xtians_R_Terrist has left ()
1308 2011-06-01 09:26:40 <midnightmagic> drumrolll....
1309 2011-06-01 09:26:45 <Phoebus> haha
1310 2011-06-01 09:26:58 <midnightmagic> and the gong booms! we have a winner.
1311 2011-06-01 09:27:10 <ArtForz> lol
1312 2011-06-01 09:27:22 <midnightmagic> I dub thee, Sir TrollKiller..
1313 2011-06-01 09:27:38 Phoebus_ has joined
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1315 2011-06-01 09:28:09 <phantomcircuit> those bitbill things are silly
1316 2011-06-01 09:28:18 intelliot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1317 2011-06-01 09:28:27 <phantomcircuit> the holograms on them are pretty easily copied
1318 2011-06-01 09:28:45 intelliot has joined
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1320 2011-06-01 09:29:23 <intelliot> phantomcircuit: how do i give someone a bitcoin when we don't have an internet connection?
1321 2011-06-01 09:30:13 sethsethseth__ has joined
1322 2011-06-01 09:30:15 <ne0futur> how do I give you a dollar if I dont have hands ?
1323 2011-06-01 09:30:39 <intelliot> you can't. but i always have hands, but i don't always have an internet connection
1324 2011-06-01 09:31:03 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1325 2011-06-01 09:31:04 <intelliot> anyway, bitbill seems to give you hands
1326 2011-06-01 09:31:14 <ne0futur> there cyercafes everywhere . . .
1327 2011-06-01 09:31:15 <phantomcircuit> intelliot, the concept of bitbills is good, the execution, not so much
1328 2011-06-01 09:31:29 <intelliot> what's wrong with the execution?
1329 2011-06-01 09:31:31 <ne0futur> cybercafes
1330 2011-06-01 09:31:38 <phantomcircuit> intelliot, a lot of things
1331 2011-06-01 09:31:47 <intelliot> what's the #1 thing
1332 2011-06-01 09:31:53 <phantomcircuit> the tamper evident hologram they use can be purchased by anybody in large quantities
1333 2011-06-01 09:31:56 <phantomcircuit> so it's meaningless
1334 2011-06-01 09:32:08 <phantomcircuit> you 100% have to trust the bitbills people
1335 2011-06-01 09:32:11 <intelliot> so you're saying it's too easily forged
1336 2011-06-01 09:32:37 intelmeth has joined
1337 2011-06-01 09:32:39 <intelliot> yes, but that seems unavoidable in order to implement this good concept (?)
1338 2011-06-01 09:32:56 sethsethseth__ has quit (Client Quit)
1339 2011-06-01 09:33:03 <phantomcircuit> intelliot, it's to easily forged and there is too much reliance on the bitbills people
1340 2011-06-01 09:33:23 <intelliot> how can they reduce the reliance?
1341 2011-06-01 09:33:36 <x5x> i think how can they reduce forging is the better question
1342 2011-06-01 09:33:40 <gjs278> my cpu can't do 4.3ghz without going over intel spec on vdi :(
1343 2011-06-01 09:33:50 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1345 2011-06-01 09:33:56 <gjs278> I need more volts than 1.375
1346 2011-06-01 09:33:59 <phantomcircuit> intelliot, not sure
1347 2011-06-01 09:34:17 <intelliot> x5x: that seems less interesting to me, because reducing forging is something i think people have solved, see: paper money, cashier's checks, etc.
1348 2011-06-01 09:34:32 <intelliot> maybe the bitbills people just didn't do it right, but i think it's just a materials/design thing
1349 2011-06-01 09:34:50 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1350 2011-06-01 09:34:58 <x5x> intelliot, yea, they spent an assload of money on trying to make it hard to duplicate and to detect it
1351 2011-06-01 09:35:01 <intelliot> the reliance thing is a hard problem, i'm afraid it may be impossible to solve if we want to implement this concept
1352 2011-06-01 09:35:24 <x5x> even if they ever can make it hard to duplciate (which they didnt) theyre not gonna have the capital to detect it like governemtns spend
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1358 2011-06-01 09:44:56 <phantomcircuit> intelliot, you could run it with smartcards, the private key is on the smart card
1359 2011-06-01 09:45:06 <phantomcircuit> it's usually possible to get the private key off it
1360 2011-06-01 09:45:11 <phantomcircuit> but it's tamper evident
1361 2011-06-01 09:45:31 <phantomcircuit> and you're not relying on anybody because the smart card generates the private key itself
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1366 2011-06-01 09:55:28 <x5x> phantomcircuit, that might work in temrs of counterfitting but is tehre really any way to know if the smart card generated the priv key itself or if the compnay egnerated it and put it onto the smart card
1367 2011-06-01 09:55:41 da2ce7 has joined
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1369 2011-06-01 09:56:04 <Phoebus_> Anyone know the date satoshi put his paper up?
1370 2011-06-01 09:56:09 <phantomcircuit> x5x, no but the barrier to entry for fucking with the smartcards would be enormouse
1371 2011-06-01 09:56:23 <x5x> phantomcircuit, right tahts why i can see it being good for counterfititng
1372 2011-06-01 09:56:43 intelmeth has joined
1373 2011-06-01 09:56:56 <phantomcircuit> no i mean the barrier to entry to setting the privkey themselves would be huge
1374 2011-06-01 09:56:59 <x5x> but like, if youre the company and youre already creating smart cards, making some taht generate priv keys themselves versus making some that come preloaded w private keys isnt very diff
1375 2011-06-01 09:57:03 <phantomcircuit> you'd need to create your own smartcards
1376 2011-06-01 09:57:11 sipa has joined
1377 2011-06-01 09:57:16 <x5x> oh
1378 2011-06-01 09:57:22 <x5x> but i mena
1379 2011-06-01 09:57:25 eternal1 has joined
1380 2011-06-01 09:57:26 <x5x> you have to make the smart cards urself in teh first place right ?
1381 2011-06-01 09:57:40 Fnar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1382 2011-06-01 09:57:52 <phantomcircuit> x5x, no you buy premade ones
1383 2011-06-01 09:57:53 <x5x> or do they already sell smart cards that make bitcoin compatible keypairs ?
1384 2011-06-01 09:58:08 <phantomcircuit> bitcoin keypairs are just ecc keys
1385 2011-06-01 09:58:20 <x5x> ah ok
1386 2011-06-01 09:58:37 <sipa> very specific ones, actually
1387 2011-06-01 09:58:48 <x5x> yea thats what i thought ther was smething specific about them
1388 2011-06-01 09:58:51 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1389 2011-06-01 10:01:05 <phantomcircuit> NID_secp256k1
1390 2011-06-01 10:01:17 <phantomcircuit> im sure there is someone making smartcards with that curve
1391 2011-06-01 10:01:19 <phantomcircuit> there's got to be ...
1392 2011-06-01 10:01:35 <x5x> ah ok
1393 2011-06-01 10:01:49 <x5x> so yea, that sounds like the best way to do it
1394 2011-06-01 10:02:21 <x5x> probly in the long term itll still be financially viable for scammers to make their own smart cards
1395 2011-06-01 10:03:17 <x5x> or i mean if someone already sells smartcards that let u preload a private key then that kinda screws everythig up
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1402 2011-06-01 10:07:52 <phantomcircuit> x5x, well no you just wouldn't accept those smartcards
1403 2011-06-01 10:08:08 <x5x> phantomcircuit, ah cuz you can detect what kind it is, yea makes sense
1404 2011-06-01 10:08:48 <x5x> phantomcircuit, and i guess the vendor of the true smart cards signs them w/ their priv key, so even if you had the funds to make fake smart cards you couldnt ever make them look legit
1405 2011-06-01 10:09:08 <x5x> so youd have to have the funds to fake smart cards and break into the true vendor and steal their priv key to really be able to make counterfit cards
1406 2011-06-01 10:09:15 <x5x> is taht about right ?
1407 2011-06-01 10:09:28 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1408 2011-06-01 10:09:32 <phantomcircuit> good luck with that
1409 2011-06-01 10:09:36 <x5x> haha yea
1410 2011-06-01 10:12:49 <x5x> hrm i think thers still an attack scenario there if you have the funds to make fake smartcards and to read the priv key off a real smart card... you basically just make a copy of the real one, so you can reuse the vendors signature, but now you have the private key and can double spend
1411 2011-06-01 10:13:27 <phantomcircuit> x5x, yeah but at this point you're talking huge operation involving a freaking smartcard factory
1412 2011-06-01 10:13:29 <phantomcircuit> so
1413 2011-06-01 10:13:30 <phantomcircuit> whatever
1414 2011-06-01 10:13:31 <x5x> right
1415 2011-06-01 10:13:37 <x5x> but at some pointw e assume the economics become viable
1416 2011-06-01 10:13:38 <Diablo-D3> yeah except
1417 2011-06-01 10:13:40 <x5x> assuming bitcoin succeeds
1418 2011-06-01 10:13:42 <Diablo-D3> you can make cards that cant be faked
1419 2011-06-01 10:13:49 <x5x> Diablo-D3, how do you do that ?
1420 2011-06-01 10:13:55 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, well you can try
1421 2011-06-01 10:14:00 <Diablo-D3> attach a really huge black guy to it.
1422 2011-06-01 10:14:05 <x5x> lol
1423 2011-06-01 10:14:05 <phantomcircuit> rofl
1424 2011-06-01 10:14:09 <Diablo-D3> no one fucks with a huge black guy
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1447 2011-06-01 10:36:19 <davout> hey, could anyone point me in the right direction for getting the generated block hash out of a successful pushpool share solution ?
1448 2011-06-01 10:37:12 Marcel has joined
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1454 2011-06-01 10:43:36 <BlueMatt> pwrcycle: ping
1455 2011-06-01 10:43:46 Archevety has joined
1456 2011-06-01 10:44:04 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, hey can you do a windows build for me?
1457 2011-06-01 10:44:20 <phantomcircuit> the python-vm-builder is ubuntu specific and im on gentoo
1458 2011-06-01 10:44:43 <BlueMatt> you can still use mingw, you dont have to do it via gitian
1459 2011-06-01 10:45:13 <phantomcircuit> i dont have the fainest clue how to build wxwidgets for windows cross compiled
1460 2011-06-01 10:45:14 <phantomcircuit> lol
1461 2011-06-01 10:45:23 <BlueMatt> what do you want built anyway?
1462 2011-06-01 10:45:33 <phantomcircuit> connect timeout patch
1463 2011-06-01 10:45:43 <BlueMatt> link?
1464 2011-06-01 10:45:45 <phantomcircuit> i tested the linux path but not the windows path
1465 2011-06-01 10:46:23 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin/commit/96cc668b5440e5b4d9dcb5b9263705275c347641
1466 2011-06-01 10:46:53 datagutt_ is now known as datagutt
1467 2011-06-01 10:49:31 Strom- is now known as Strom
1468 2011-06-01 10:49:41 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1469 2011-06-01 10:50:01 <sipa> BlueMatt: i was thinking, maybe the in-memory encryption patch should be split up into 1) something that adds a no-use/no-top-up keypool mode (which is generally useful in some contexts) and 2) something that adds encryption, forcing the mode added in 1)
1470 2011-06-01 10:50:28 <phantomcircuit> in memory encryption?
1471 2011-06-01 10:50:30 <phantomcircuit> mlockall
1472 2011-06-01 10:50:37 <phantomcircuit> shazam
1473 2011-06-01 10:50:59 <phantomcircuit> im just kidding dont do that
1474 2011-06-01 10:51:15 <BlueMatt> why are people so obsessed with mlock? the "attack" it protects against is pretty much never seen irl
1475 2011-06-01 10:51:32 <BlueMatt> sipa: alright, Ill see if I can do that in a minute
1476 2011-06-01 10:52:18 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, what? the attack it protects against was successfully used to root osx
1477 2011-06-01 10:52:25 <sipa> in addition, for 1), maybe people have good suggestions for which keys to use if no fresh key is available
1478 2011-06-01 10:52:29 * thermal somersaults into the chatroom
1479 2011-06-01 10:52:36 <phantomcircuit> in fact i saw someone live casting hacking into about 1k os x servers simultaneously with it
1480 2011-06-01 10:52:36 <thermal> hai gaiz :D
1481 2011-06-01 10:52:37 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1482 2011-06-01 10:52:57 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: it exists, but it is 1000x times more likely that someone will use a much simpler attack, like simple memory dumping
1483 2011-06-01 10:53:00 <thermal> i really feel like diving into some bitcoin-related coding
1484 2011-06-01 10:53:06 <thermal> so, anyone need some help?
1485 2011-06-01 10:53:19 <thermal> i have several hours available
1486 2011-06-01 10:53:23 <thermal> maybe more!
1487 2011-06-01 10:53:25 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, yeah there's no way to protect
1488 2011-06-01 10:53:29 <sipa> thermal: there is a nice issues list on github :)
1489 2011-06-01 10:53:44 <thermal> haha ok, i guess that's a start!
1490 2011-06-01 10:54:00 <sipa> of course, if you have ideas for improvement yourself, feel free
1491 2011-06-01 10:54:13 <thermal> so i just need to get qt and gcc sorted out right? anything else i'd need?
1492 2011-06-01 10:54:20 <sipa> qt?
1493 2011-06-01 10:54:24 <thermal> oh boost
1494 2011-06-01 10:54:31 <BlueMatt> and wx
1495 2011-06-01 10:54:37 <sipa> there is a qt-port in development, but it's far from usable
1496 2011-06-01 10:55:15 <thermal> what's a recommended IDE? (Win7)
1497 2011-06-01 10:55:29 <BlueMatt> notepad + mingw
1498 2011-06-01 10:55:33 <sipa> whichever you're confortable with
1499 2011-06-01 10:55:36 <thermal> editplus it is
1500 2011-06-01 10:55:57 intelliot has quit (Quit: intelliot)
1501 2011-06-01 10:56:15 * sipa feels like splitting off the miner code in main.cpp
1502 2011-06-01 10:56:18 <thermal> ahh i really miss coding in C++. good memories
1503 2011-06-01 10:56:27 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, what do you think of my horrible hack
1504 2011-06-01 10:56:45 magnetron has joined
1505 2011-06-01 10:57:25 <magnetron> feature request: display of "time since last block" in status bar
1506 2011-06-01 10:57:59 <sipa> magnetron: hmm, that may be useful
1507 2011-06-01 10:58:07 <ersi> magnetron: Uh? As in last fetched block? Or when the last one was generated? :o
1508 2011-06-01 10:59:14 <magnetron> ersi: difference between the clock and the time in the header of the last fetched block
1509 2011-06-01 10:59:41 <magnetron> would be an easy way to know if you're in sync
1510 2011-06-01 11:00:07 <sipa> the client already has heuristic for determining whether it is in sync
1511 2011-06-01 11:00:27 <magnetron> ok, but it's not displayed, right?
1512 2011-06-01 11:01:02 <sipa> no, but it should
1513 2011-06-01 11:01:21 <thermal> so you guys are working on guiminer?
1514 2011-06-01 11:01:27 VastLite has quit (Quit: VastLite)
1515 2011-06-01 11:01:30 <thermal> oh, the main client?
1516 2011-06-01 11:01:34 <sipa> main client
1517 2011-06-01 11:02:36 <magnetron> sipa: could be a green/yellow light, green for less than 15 minutes, red for 0 connections
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1521 2011-06-01 11:06:16 <thermal> does anyone use visual studio for compiling bitcoin?
1522 2011-06-01 11:06:23 <magnetron> sipa: but i don't like when information is encoded as colors
1523 2011-06-01 11:06:46 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1524 2011-06-01 11:07:51 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
1525 2011-06-01 11:09:16 <ersi> magnetron: ah
1526 2011-06-01 11:09:55 <thermal> does bitcoin employ p2p encryption?
1527 2011-06-01 11:09:55 Ramokk has quit ()
1528 2011-06-01 11:14:09 <sipa> thermal: no
1529 2011-06-01 11:14:16 <sipa> there is no encryption anywhere in bitcoin
1530 2011-06-01 11:15:07 larsivi has joined
1531 2011-06-01 11:15:14 <wumpus> you can run it over tor, though
1532 2011-06-01 11:15:39 <magnetron> i
1533 2011-06-01 11:16:01 <magnetron> i've ran it over tor ever since my block chain was synced up
1534 2011-06-01 11:17:40 <wumpus> and some people are working on i2p support. There is not really a reason for encryption in bitcoin itself as the information sent around is not confidential (it will end up in the public block chain anyway)
1535 2011-06-01 11:18:33 bitcoiner has joined
1536 2011-06-01 11:18:36 <magnetron> there can be reasons to try to disguise the fact that you are running bitcoin
1537 2011-06-01 11:18:52 <magnetron> this is where proxies and Tor come in to place
1538 2011-06-01 11:18:55 <wumpus> hence you can use readily available privacy technology in that case
1539 2011-06-01 11:18:56 <wumpus> exactly
1540 2011-06-01 11:19:41 marlowe has joined
1541 2011-06-01 11:20:00 <thermal> wumpus: ah good point
1542 2011-06-01 11:20:20 <wumpus> a privacy network including just bitcoin nodes would also be kind of .. transparent
1543 2011-06-01 11:20:39 <wumpus> tor and i2p and such at least mix it with other traffic
1544 2011-06-01 11:21:11 darrob has joined
1545 2011-06-01 11:23:12 PirateMarmalade has joined
1546 2011-06-01 11:23:37 <PirateMarmalade> Wow seems like there are a lot of devs
1547 2011-06-01 11:24:18 DontMindMe has joined
1548 2011-06-01 11:24:21 <sipa> at least a lot of people interested in development :0
1549 2011-06-01 11:24:25 <ersi> You mean, there's a lot of people interested in the development
1550 2011-06-01 11:24:28 <ersi> sipa: +1
1551 2011-06-01 11:25:22 <thermal> wow visual studio 2010 takes *ages* to install :/
1552 2011-06-01 11:25:30 Speeder has joined
1553 2011-06-01 11:26:13 <thermal> i'm interested in participating once i familiarize myself with the code :)
1554 2011-06-01 11:28:53 <thermal> sipa: i'm guessing you use vim? :p
1555 2011-06-01 11:28:59 <sipa> no, worse
1556 2011-06-01 11:29:04 <thermal> emacs?
1557 2011-06-01 11:29:13 <sipa> please, i said worse :p
1558 2011-06-01 11:29:16 <thermal> heh
1559 2011-06-01 11:29:18 <sipa> mcedit
1560 2011-06-01 11:29:54 <thermal> haha midnight commander ftw
1561 2011-06-01 11:30:47 <thermal> reminds me a little of quick basic interface
1562 2011-06-01 11:31:15 blueadept has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1563 2011-06-01 11:34:32 <thermal> 'MinGW may have problems with paths containing spaces, and if not, usually other programs used with MinGW will experience problems with such paths. Thus, we strongly recommend that you do not install MinGW in any location with spaces in the path name reference; i.e. you should avoid installing into any subdirectory of "Program Files" or "My Documents", or the like'
1564 2011-06-01 11:34:49 <thermal> you know when that would have been a good time to mention?
1565 2011-06-01 11:35:02 <thermal> when i chose a path like that during install :/
1566 2011-06-01 11:36:29 blueadept has joined
1567 2011-06-01 11:39:05 <thermal> what are the stats on operating systems share bitcoin is installed on?
1568 2011-06-01 11:41:48 <phantomcircuit> thermal, that's a good question
1569 2011-06-01 11:42:02 <wumpus> I don't think anyone is keeping stats on that
1570 2011-06-01 11:42:50 <thermal> a bot sitting in the login irc channel could CTCP VERSION upon a client joining
1571 2011-06-01 11:42:58 <wumpus> maybe sourceforge has numbers on the number of downloads, but that doesn't tell anything about installs
1572 2011-06-01 11:43:01 <thermal> of course the CTCP VERSION functionality would need to be implemented
1573 2011-06-01 11:43:45 <thermal> maybe a simple http get of http://stats.bitcoin.org on startup?
1574 2011-06-01 11:43:49 <wumpus> I'd rather have the IRC client removed entirely then have it extended to handle CTCP too
1575 2011-06-01 11:43:55 <thermal> i agree
1576 2011-06-01 11:43:56 <wumpus> yeah better
1577 2011-06-01 11:44:30 <thermal> and just mention it at the top of the privacy policy
1578 2011-06-01 11:44:42 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1579 2011-06-01 11:44:53 <magnetron> what privacy policy
1580 2011-06-01 11:46:20 <wumpus> there's a lot of borderline paranoid users of bitcoin, though, so I'm not sure how popular it'd be... best would be to suggest the idea on the forums
1581 2011-06-01 11:47:17 <thermal> well, joining an irc network raises far more red flags than an http request
1582 2011-06-01 11:47:33 <thermal> first time i've seen that used legitimately
1583 2011-06-01 11:47:53 <wumpus> agreed, luckily there is -noirc
1584 2011-06-01 11:49:01 <wumpus> if the http request just contains one bit of information (OS), I guess it can't hurt, but if it contains more info such as exact version it could be used to profile specific users/systems
1585 2011-06-01 11:49:38 sipa has left ()
1586 2011-06-01 11:49:47 diki has quit ()
1587 2011-06-01 11:49:54 <wumpus> (like panopticlick)
1588 2011-06-01 11:49:58 <thermal> we could use https then
1589 2011-06-01 11:50:07 eternal11 has joined
1590 2011-06-01 11:50:10 <thermal> i mean, if that information helps us out i think it's worth it
1591 2011-06-01 11:50:25 <thermal> it's a community project so it's unlikely it's going to be abused
1592 2011-06-01 11:50:47 <thermal> perhaps just version and os
1593 2011-06-01 11:50:52 <magnetron> you are missing the point
1594 2011-06-01 11:51:28 <magnetron> revealing that information to anyone that asks via CTCP is a privacy and security issue
1595 2011-06-01 11:51:39 <wumpus> we're not talking about CTCP anymore
1596 2011-06-01 11:51:51 <thermal> this is an ssl secured http request on startup
1597 2011-06-01 11:52:06 <thermal> that would send just the bitcoin version and platform
1598 2011-06-01 11:53:15 <thermal> re digital certificate, simply self sign and then hardcode the fingerprint into bitcoin
1599 2011-06-01 11:53:28 <thermal> to avoid mitm attack
1600 2011-06-01 11:53:30 glassresistor has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1601 2011-06-01 11:53:35 <wumpus> but I doubt the stats that are thus gathered are useful enough that it will be included
1602 2011-06-01 11:54:15 <thermal> well, even for a replacement of the irc method being used
1603 2011-06-01 11:54:26 <thermal> i was thinking we could set it up on Google App Engine
1604 2011-06-01 11:54:41 <thermal> = instant scalability
1605 2011-06-01 11:54:45 <wumpus> i believe they're working on something with dns to bootstrap
1606 2011-06-01 11:54:51 <thermal> ah ok
1607 2011-06-01 11:55:10 <thermal> perhaps send os in that lookup, then?
1608 2011-06-01 11:55:12 <wumpus> but the problem on how to get nodes into the bootstrap pool is still unsolved afaik
1609 2011-06-01 11:55:25 <thermal> actually, downloads from sourceforge should be an indication enough
1610 2011-06-01 11:55:32 <thermal> i just wanted to get a rough feel
1611 2011-06-01 11:55:58 <thermal> maybe someone could post those stats on the forum
1612 2011-06-01 11:57:33 <thermal> is it alright to use Berkeley DB 5.1.25?
1613 2011-06-01 11:57:47 <thermal> the readme says \db-4.7.25.NC-mgw
1614 2011-06-01 11:58:07 DukeOfURL has joined
1615 2011-06-01 11:58:18 <thermal> dw i'll just follow the readme :p
1616 2011-06-01 11:59:52 <wumpus> I haven't had problems with other versions of BDB, but beware that wallets are not backwards compatible to older versions of BDB
1617 2011-06-01 12:02:07 <thermal> ouch. that could really upset someone's day!
1618 2011-06-01 12:02:15 <thermal> TIL: rote - routine; a fixed, habitual, or mechanical course of procedure: the rote of daily living.
1619 2011-06-01 12:02:30 <thermal> as in, "It generates uibase.cpp and uibase.h, which define base classes that do the rote work of constructing all the UI elements."
1620 2011-06-01 12:02:30 <thermal> :D
1621 2011-06-01 12:03:09 <thermal> who's taking care of the windows compiles?
1622 2011-06-01 12:08:08 DontMindMe has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1623 2011-06-01 12:11:14 <PirateMarmalade> What do you guys here think about adding support from encrypting one's wallet.dat to the Bitcoin client
1624 2011-06-01 12:11:30 <PirateMarmalade> *for
1625 2011-06-01 12:11:59 <wumpus> people are working on that
1626 2011-06-01 12:12:15 <wumpus> it could add some security in some cases
1627 2011-06-01 12:12:24 <ersi> PirateMarmalade: It's on it's way.
1628 2011-06-01 12:15:16 KingMartin has joined
1629 2011-06-01 12:16:05 <thermal> it'd be great if there was some standard convention for a user having their own key pair along with their account/profile on an os
1630 2011-06-01 12:16:32 <thermal> could also be used for securely storing data on the cloud
1631 2011-06-01 12:17:30 <PirateMarmalade> It would at least prevent stealing BTC just by copying the wallet
1632 2011-06-01 12:17:55 <PirateMarmalade> Which seems to worry quite a few people
1633 2011-06-01 12:19:07 <davout> hey, could anyone point me in the right direction for getting the generated block hash out of a successful pushpool share solution ?
1634 2011-06-01 12:19:36 <wumpus> yes it also makes it less dangerous to have wallet backups around
1635 2011-06-01 12:22:28 DukeOfURL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1636 2011-06-01 12:22:53 <PirateMarmalade> Yep.
1637 2011-06-01 12:23:04 <PirateMarmalade> How much work does it still need?
1638 2011-06-01 12:24:36 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
1639 2011-06-01 12:25:19 <PirateMarmalade> Cause i'd prolly be willing to look into it when I have some free time (prolly about two weeks from now)
1640 2011-06-01 12:25:44 agricocb has joined
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1645 2011-06-01 12:29:33 JRWR has quit (Client Quit)
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1648 2011-06-01 12:42:49 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
1649 2011-06-01 12:42:51 <gribble> Current Blocks: 127957 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 1066 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 10 hours, 34 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 500146.17826939
1650 2011-06-01 12:45:34 khalahan is now known as khal
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1653 2011-06-01 12:45:56 khalahan is now known as khal
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1656 2011-06-01 12:46:32 <thermal> which version of wx widgets should i be using?
1657 2011-06-01 12:46:34 <thermal> wxWidgets-2.9.1 ?
1658 2011-06-01 12:47:09 simkiss has joined
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1660 2011-06-01 12:48:49 larsivi has joined
1661 2011-06-01 12:51:27 <thermal> we'll soon see :)
1662 2011-06-01 12:51:30 <UukGoblin> thermal, 2.9 I believe... if 2.9.1 is the latest then it should probably work
1663 2011-06-01 12:51:37 <UukGoblin> thermal, last I tried it was on 2.9.0
1664 2011-06-01 12:51:53 <thermal> ok ty
1665 2011-06-01 12:53:56 asherkin has joined
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1670 2011-06-01 13:08:43 <davout> hey, could anyone point me in the right direction for getting the generated block hash out of a successful pushpool share solution ?
1671 2011-06-01 13:11:52 Mononofu has joined
1672 2011-06-01 13:14:00 johnnympereira5 has joined
1673 2011-06-01 13:15:12 <coptic> okeedokee
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1676 2011-06-01 13:17:44 <pwrcycle> BlueMatt: pong
1677 2011-06-01 13:20:13 Kurtov has joined
1678 2011-06-01 13:22:07 <BlueMatt> pwrcycle: specifically, I wanted to run a script which fills a db with bitcoin nodes which can then be served from a dns server as a dnsseed
1679 2011-06-01 13:23:21 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, there really is no need for that my patch completely fixes the connections problem
1680 2011-06-01 13:23:57 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1681 2011-06-01 13:24:08 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: not completely, nodes shouldnt have to try that many connections just to get valid ones
1682 2011-06-01 13:24:09 naturalethic has joined
1683 2011-06-01 13:24:18 <BlueMatt> your patch is needed, but isnt a solution, just a work around
1684 2011-06-01 13:24:50 <phantomcircuit> actually there's enough bitcoin nodes now that you could bootstrap by just randomly trying ips in rapid succession
1685 2011-06-01 13:25:08 <BlueMatt> ...or not
1686 2011-06-01 13:25:35 <pwrcycle> BlueMatt: what's the script written in?
1687 2011-06-01 13:25:35 <BlueMatt> and you would have to try *very* rapid succession to get that to work
1688 2011-06-01 13:25:39 <BlueMatt> pwrcycle: php
1689 2011-06-01 13:25:54 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, lol you can do it with gnutella
1690 2011-06-01 13:25:56 <phantomcircuit> it's hilarious
1691 2011-06-01 13:26:07 <BlueMatt> you *can*, doesnt mean you shoud
1692 2011-06-01 13:26:10 <BlueMatt> should*
1693 2011-06-01 13:26:21 <phantomcircuit> there isn't much reason to run a dnsseed
1694 2011-06-01 13:26:29 <BlueMatt> why not?
1695 2011-06-01 13:26:30 <phantomcircuit> that just seems like over engineering
1696 2011-06-01 13:26:37 <pwrcycle> email me the script and i'll check it out. PM.
1697 2011-06-01 13:26:38 <BlueMatt> its a much better solution than irc or static nodes
1698 2011-06-01 13:26:55 <phantomcircuit> yeah i guess
1699 2011-06-01 13:27:12 <pwrcycle> BlueMatt: how offten do the nodes change?
1700 2011-06-01 13:27:22 <phantomcircuit> i think ill modify by python node to only stay connected to another node for say 1 minute
1701 2011-06-01 13:27:32 <phantomcircuit> i should work through all of the available peers in about an hour
1702 2011-06-01 13:28:00 <pwrcycle> BlueMatt: listing multiple nodes as A records in the dns seems like a quicker solution, and then let them fail as they will.
1703 2011-06-01 13:28:23 <BlueMatt> pwrcycle: not too often...when upnp off the few users who bother forwarding their ports tend to have pretty good uptime
1704 2011-06-01 13:28:23 <pwrcycle> BlueMatt: with a high TTL, the client's will never notice the DNS failure retries
1705 2011-06-01 13:28:25 Kurtov has joined
1706 2011-06-01 13:28:46 <BlueMatt> pwrcycle: why would dns fail?
1707 2011-06-01 13:29:06 <pwrcycle> BlueMatt: if you have many A recrod IPs for the same domain name.
1708 2011-06-01 13:29:17 <BlueMatt> you set the dns server to limit how many it sends back
1709 2011-06-01 13:29:18 <pwrcycle> BlueMatt: if one of the IPs fails, you cycle through to the next.
1710 2011-06-01 13:29:44 <BlueMatt> well its much better to check if the ips are accepting incoming connections to begin with, than make every node check
1711 2011-06-01 13:29:57 <pwrcycle> once you have a successful answer, then the client won't check again until the TTL is reached.
1712 2011-06-01 13:30:10 <BlueMatt> what did you say, phantomcircuit we are at like 15% of nodes accepting incoming connections?
1713 2011-06-01 13:30:36 <BlueMatt> pwrcycle: wait, what exactly are you suggesting?
1714 2011-06-01 13:30:50 <naturalethic> are there docs anywhere for building bitcoin as a library?
1715 2011-06-01 13:31:23 <BlueMatt> naturalethic: I would recommend against that...its a mess to begin with, trying to hook deeply into bitcoin as a lib...
1716 2011-06-01 13:31:27 <pwrcycle> BlueMatt: i'd have to see how the network works to make a good suggestion
1717 2011-06-01 13:32:00 <pwrcycle> but esentially you can have many IPs on one dns name.
1718 2011-06-01 13:32:13 <BlueMatt> pwrcycle: so what are you saying is bad about a script which just goes around checking as many nodes as it can find to see if they are up, then a dns server pulling from the output db of that script and returning 10 or 20 in the same dns a record?
1719 2011-06-01 13:32:18 <BlueMatt> yea that is the goal
1720 2011-06-01 13:32:35 <BlueMatt> the dns server picks 10 or 20 and returns them in an a record and the client tries those
1721 2011-06-01 13:32:41 <naturalethic> BlueMatt: I suppose the best alternative is to fork a local bitcoind and REST to it ?
1722 2011-06-01 13:33:29 jonny_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1723 2011-06-01 13:33:51 <BlueMatt> naturalethic: the best is just run a local bitcoind and use rpc...what do you want to do specifically?
1724 2011-06-01 13:34:21 <phantomcircuit> bah stupid wifi
1725 2011-06-01 13:34:21 <naturalethic> BlueMatt: was pondering working up a slicker mac desktop client
1726 2011-06-01 13:35:06 <naturalethic> BlueMatt: with cocoa, not wx
1727 2011-06-01 13:35:59 <BlueMatt> naturalethic: mmm...well that would be hard...my recommendation: help us clean the codebase and split classes and such into proper classes instead of a bunch of crap thrown in main.cpp and then go make your lib ;)...but if you cant do that, you *could* do a spesmilo style client, which just pulls via rpc...or you could try to adapt the wx stuff into a cocoa ui
1728 2011-06-01 13:36:01 <naturalethic> BlueMatt: maybe intergrate chart data with a ticker, and other stuff, make a kind of bitcoin workstation
1729 2011-06-01 13:38:31 <naturalethic> BlueMatt: i'm not a superb system level programmer, not sure how helpful I could be there, but I'll read some code. Thanks
1730 2011-06-01 13:39:14 <phantomcircuit> naturalethic, you can get almost all the info you need form rpc
1731 2011-06-01 13:39:16 <phantomcircuit> from*
1732 2011-06-01 13:39:39 <BlueMatt> naturalethic: you could contact the guy who is doing a qt port and see if you can work with him to split all the ui stuff properly into standalone files and then write a cocoa ui from there
1733 2011-06-01 13:39:53 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yes, but that also means managing a bitcoind subprocess and such...and that gets messy
1734 2011-06-01 13:40:05 Nicksasa is now known as NicksasaTest
1735 2011-06-01 13:40:13 NicksasaTest is now known as Nicksasa
1736 2011-06-01 13:40:19 <naturalethic> BlueMatt: exactly, but not too daunting
1737 2011-06-01 13:40:38 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, most p2p applications run as a daemon with a client networked
1738 2011-06-01 13:40:39 <naturalethic> BlueMatt: have a link or name for the qt port?
1739 2011-06-01 13:40:43 <phantomcircuit> specifically deluge is a good example
1740 2011-06-01 13:40:59 <phantomcircuit> also building wxwidgets for msw takes fucking forever
1741 2011-06-01 13:41:12 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: most? ok deluge, still I prefer to not do something so messy, a lib would be much nicer
1742 2011-06-01 13:41:24 <BlueMatt> naturalethic: look for the "UI Optimization" thread on the forums iirc
1743 2011-06-01 13:41:42 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: dont complain till you've done boost
1744 2011-06-01 13:41:55 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, boost builds faster for me
1745 2011-06-01 13:41:59 <phantomcircuit> :shrug:
1746 2011-06-01 13:42:01 <BlueMatt> wtf?
1747 2011-06-01 13:42:08 <BlueMatt> boost is like 2x the size of wx
1748 2011-06-01 13:42:12 <BlueMatt> no, more
1749 2011-06-01 13:42:16 <phantomcircuit> yeah no idea
1750 2011-06-01 13:43:45 <luke-jr> [09:32:29] <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yes, but that also means managing a bitcoind subprocess and suchâ¦and that gets messy
1751 2011-06-01 13:43:46 <luke-jr> FUD
1752 2011-06-01 13:44:22 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: sorry, I just prefer my programs to be a bit cleaner than that
1753 2011-06-01 13:44:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: there's nothing "unclean" about proper abstraction
1754 2011-06-01 13:44:46 <BlueMatt> via a lib
1755 2011-06-01 13:44:56 <luke-jr> phantomcircuit: on the other hand, you *can't* reasonably write clients with JSON-RPC
1756 2011-06-01 13:45:05 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, a lib is unclean for this
1757 2011-06-01 13:45:31 <BlueMatt> meh, you can do rpc if you want, I just want to see someone get around to writing a good lib...so Ill encourage that
1758 2011-06-01 13:45:38 <naturalethic> luke-jr: i actually may be inclined to agree with you here
1759 2011-06-01 13:45:57 <naturalethic> keep the client and server distributed
1760 2011-06-01 13:46:23 <luke-jr> a lib ties you to a specific implementation, prevents you from running multiple front-ends, and forces you to run the wallet/node locally
1761 2011-06-01 13:46:53 <ali1234> now, that is FUD
1762 2011-06-01 13:47:02 <ali1234> a lib merely ties you to a specific API
1763 2011-06-01 13:47:11 <ali1234> nothing to stop multiple competing implementations of said lib
1764 2011-06-01 13:47:18 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: basically, you're saying webpages should be written as WebKit API calls rather than HTML
1765 2011-06-01 13:47:33 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: huh? what does that have to do with anything?
1766 2011-06-01 13:47:39 <luke-jr> ali1234: when the API is not designed in an abstract way, it also implies an implementation
1767 2011-06-01 13:47:39 <phantomcircuit> luke-jr, yeah i know json rpc is unstable and just plain bad
1768 2011-06-01 13:47:41 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1769 2011-06-01 13:48:05 <naturalethic> quick one off, can I drop my bitcoin data folder, minus wallet, in a new instance and avoid downloading all the block data again
1770 2011-06-01 13:48:06 <BlueMatt> tying to a specific api is no different from libs to rpc...you still have a set of commands that you can pick from
1771 2011-06-01 13:48:25 <luke-jr> naturalethic: not if the first bitcoin is running still
1772 2011-06-01 13:48:36 <BlueMatt> naturalethic: yes, but you only need blk* the rest can be gotten elsewhere
1773 2011-06-01 13:48:37 molecular has joined
1774 2011-06-01 13:48:43 <BlueMatt> but yea, stop bitcoin first
1775 2011-06-01 13:48:51 <naturalethic> luke-jr: right assuming all files are closed
1776 2011-06-01 13:49:36 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1777 2011-06-01 13:50:50 eternal12 has joined
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1779 2011-06-01 13:51:58 eternal11 has joined
1780 2011-06-01 13:55:21 eternal12 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1781 2011-06-01 13:56:50 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r5b22c99010a3 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCOrderBook/plugin.py: OTCOrderBook: feed a stream of incoming orders into a ticker channel. http://tinyurl.com/3fvvvzd
1782 2011-06-01 13:58:19 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, the worst part is that i have a really fast desktop but i cant get wxwidget to cross compile on it
1783 2011-06-01 13:58:36 <BlueMatt> works great for me :)
1784 2011-06-01 14:01:18 <phantomcircuit> lol
1785 2011-06-01 14:01:51 lumos has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1786 2011-06-01 14:03:35 Alexees has joined
1787 2011-06-01 14:04:41 <MT`AwAy> bitcoin 0.3.21 is crap, keeps crashing >.<
1788 2011-06-01 14:05:06 <BlueMatt> care to give a bit more detail?
1789 2011-06-01 14:05:47 davout has quit (Quit: i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net))
1790 2011-06-01 14:05:49 <MT`AwAy> segfault every once in a while (high traffic bitcoind, gets a ton of api calls)
1791 2011-06-01 14:06:13 <BlueMatt> hm, and it broke for .21 from .20?
1792 2011-06-01 14:06:14 <MT`AwAy> it seems rather random
1793 2011-06-01 14:06:41 <MT`AwAy> from .19
1794 2011-06-01 14:06:46 <MT`AwAy> didn't test .20
1795 2011-06-01 14:06:53 <BlueMatt> could you do that?
1796 2011-06-01 14:07:04 <BlueMatt> with a dummy load or smth?
1797 2011-06-01 14:07:13 <MT`AwAy> heh
1798 2011-06-01 14:07:24 <MT`AwAy> it seems that normal load is not helping
1799 2011-06-01 14:07:43 <MT`AwAy> crashes under normal operations (ie. handling mtgox) after 5 min to a few days
1800 2011-06-01 14:08:29 redMBA has joined
1801 2011-06-01 14:08:35 <BlueMatt> ah, well obviously roll back to .19...but can you set up an environment where it crashes under high dummy load?
1802 2011-06-01 14:08:54 eternal12 has joined
1803 2011-06-01 14:09:16 <MT`AwAy> I wish I could have the time to reproduce that
1804 2011-06-01 14:09:26 <MT`AwAy> for now I'll try to have a coredump
1805 2011-06-01 14:10:38 <MT`AwAy> anyway it seems to have more chances to happen while I'm afk
1806 2011-06-01 14:10:53 <BlueMatt> always does
1807 2011-06-01 14:11:08 <devon_hillard> if no more bitcoins will be distributed after the hard limit of 21M, would GPU miners still be needed?
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1810 2011-06-01 14:11:54 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: Yes. Mining is about securing the systemâ the coin reward is just a side effect for the purpose of getting coins into the system.
1811 2011-06-01 14:12:11 <wumpus> devon_hillard: yes, to get the biggest share of transaction fees
1812 2011-06-01 14:12:17 x5x has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1813 2011-06-01 14:12:20 <devon_hillard> gmaxwell: so what would be the incentive to continue to devote computational resources?
1814 2011-06-01 14:12:24 <gmaxwell> (well, mining is about processing transaction it takes lots of computation to secure the system)
1815 2011-06-01 14:12:51 <devon_hillard> gmaxwell: ah, transaction fees would accrue proportionally to the miners
1816 2011-06-01 14:12:57 <phantomcircuit> yes
1817 2011-06-01 14:13:00 <gmaxwell> Trasnaction fees, potentially income from alternative bound-blockchains, and overall dependance on bitcoin.
1818 2011-06-01 14:13:26 <MT`AwAy> .19 is probably not an option, unless I can get it to handle sub-cent and put the appropriate fees
1819 2011-06-01 14:13:50 x5x has joined
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1821 2011-06-01 14:13:54 <devon_hillard> gmaxwell: so each client can set a certain transaction fee as a 'bounty' for fast verification?
1822 2011-06-01 14:14:04 <phantomcircuit> devon_hillard, yes
1823 2011-06-01 14:14:16 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: per-transaction in fact.
1824 2011-06-01 14:14:17 kish has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1825 2011-06-01 14:14:33 <coptic> transalax
1826 2011-06-01 14:14:54 <devon_hillard> is there a possibility that a transaction won't be accepted at all if the fee is too low?
1827 2011-06-01 14:15:00 <coptic> gpus will switch to things like being paid to encode dns entries or other stuf into the chain
1828 2011-06-01 14:15:03 kish has joined
1829 2011-06-01 14:15:10 <wumpus> that's indeed possible
1830 2011-06-01 14:15:13 <coptic> registry services will be extremely lucrative, more lucrative than mining..
1831 2011-06-01 14:15:19 <phantomcircuit> devon_hillard, it depends on how the miners and the network act
1832 2011-06-01 14:15:26 <devon_hillard> can a client decide not to validate transactions below a certain reward?
1833 2011-06-01 14:15:43 <phantomcircuit> devon_hillard, yes they can
1834 2011-06-01 14:15:44 <BlueMatt> MT`AwAy: oh...ok well...then you have to get more info and someone can try to fix it :)
1835 2011-06-01 14:15:51 <wumpus> if no one ever puts the transaction in a block then it will linger forever
1836 2011-06-01 14:16:02 <devon_hillard> and is the reward distributed globally, or on a peer basis?
1837 2011-06-01 14:16:07 <wumpus> well, for some values of forever :)
1838 2011-06-01 14:16:24 theorb has joined
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1843 2011-06-01 14:17:27 <wumpus> devon_hillard: the miner that puts the transaction into his block gets the rewards
1844 2011-06-01 14:18:49 <devon_hillard> what happens if certain clients refuse to put certain transactions in their own block?
1845 2011-06-01 14:18:53 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1846 2011-06-01 14:19:17 <devon_hillard> they may be prevented from pushing their own transactions through the network? (since they have a different block chain)
1847 2011-06-01 14:19:47 <phantomcircuit> wat
1848 2011-06-01 14:20:15 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
1849 2011-06-01 14:20:17 <wumpus> the block chains synchronize, everyone accepts the longest one
1850 2011-06-01 14:20:45 dukeleto has joined
1851 2011-06-01 14:20:59 <coptic> get your chain on
1852 2011-06-01 14:23:08 <coptic> chain yourself to the wall
1853 2011-06-01 14:23:49 <phantomcircuit> coptic, some kinky shit right there
1854 2011-06-01 14:23:58 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: I suggest reading this if you haven't http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
1855 2011-06-01 14:24:15 eternal11 has joined
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1857 2011-06-01 14:24:33 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: but in any case, if a miner doesn't mine some transaction another one can/will.
1858 2011-06-01 14:25:20 eternal13 has joined
1859 2011-06-01 14:26:09 <devon_hillard> the zero-sum bitcoin is set so far into the future that by that time
1860 2011-06-01 14:26:19 <devon_hillard> either bitcoin would have won, or would have died
1861 2011-06-01 14:26:24 Mark_R has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1862 2011-06-01 14:26:25 marlowe has joined
1863 2011-06-01 14:26:38 <Alexees> guys is it ok to play 3D games while mining with your gpu ?
1864 2011-06-01 14:26:40 <wumpus> or it's still a niche
1865 2011-06-01 14:26:56 <devon_hillard> Alexees: it works for me, just that the miner takes a back seat
1866 2011-06-01 14:26:57 eternal1 has joined
1867 2011-06-01 14:27:11 <wumpus> you'll just mine a lot slower and your game will be slower
1868 2011-06-01 14:27:14 eternal12 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1869 2011-06-01 14:27:31 eternal11 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1870 2011-06-01 14:27:36 <Alexees> wumpus: make senses, thanks
1871 2011-06-01 14:27:50 <coptic> gocaine
1872 2011-06-01 14:29:10 eternal11 has joined
1873 2011-06-01 14:29:29 <devon_hillard> wumpus: it depends, if the worksize is set high the game will just get priority
1874 2011-06-01 14:29:34 <devon_hillard> or that's how it works under windows
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1880 2011-06-01 14:31:19 <wumpus> yeah, though priority doesn't really work that well for GPU
1881 2011-06-01 14:31:45 <wumpus> a process with low CPU priority can still hog the GPU if it wants to
1882 2011-06-01 14:32:17 marlowe has joined
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1884 2011-06-01 14:35:05 <jrmithdobbs> IF YOU OUTLAW DNSSEC ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE DNSSEC
1885 2011-06-01 14:35:47 <BlueMatt> ????
1886 2011-06-01 14:36:04 <ersi> derp
1887 2011-06-01 14:36:09 <jrmithdobbs> stupid law in us congress right now
1888 2011-06-01 14:36:13 <jrmithdobbs> and wrong channel
1889 2011-06-01 14:36:15 <jrmithdobbs> haha
1890 2011-06-01 14:36:33 <BlueMatt> wait really? they want to outlaw dnssec?
1891 2011-06-01 14:36:48 <BlueMatt> god damn govt is so fucking stupid when it comes to the internet
1892 2011-06-01 14:36:56 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: not directly, but effectively, yes
1893 2011-06-01 14:37:03 <BlueMatt> how so?
1894 2011-06-01 14:37:18 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: stupid law that requires isps to be able to redirect a domain to a page that says "sorry this site violated IP laws"
1895 2011-06-01 14:37:27 <BlueMatt> oh, yea that one
1896 2011-06-01 14:37:34 <BlueMatt> protect ip right?
1897 2011-06-01 14:37:36 <jrmithdobbs> effectively makes dnssec illegal
1898 2011-06-01 14:37:40 <BlueMatt> god so fucking stupid
1899 2011-06-01 14:37:50 normanrichards has joined
1900 2011-06-01 14:38:03 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, uh no that doesn't you can still provide false dns records that simpyl aren't signed
1901 2011-06-01 14:38:21 <BlueMatt> well Ill be running my own dns resolver...
1902 2011-06-01 14:38:25 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: except they wont validate so they wont return results to the client assuming validating resolvers
1903 2011-06-01 14:38:26 lonny has joined
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1905 2011-06-01 14:38:35 <phantomcircuit> lol i run a dns resolver on each computer
1906 2011-06-01 14:38:39 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: so yes, it effectively makes dnssec validating resolvers run by isps illegal
1907 2011-06-01 14:38:44 <phantomcircuit> it's so little bandwidth why not
1908 2011-06-01 14:38:49 <jrmithdobbs> which effectively makes dnssec illegal
1909 2011-06-01 14:39:04 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: caching? but yea I run one for my net already...just not on each comp
1910 2011-06-01 14:39:06 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, no the records wont be validated, but the redirect will still technically occur
1911 2011-06-01 14:39:31 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, well i have one bind instance for my wired systems and each wireless runs it's own
1912 2011-06-01 14:39:33 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: not if their resolvers validate
1913 2011-06-01 14:39:49 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: requirement of validating resolvers is to return no response if validation fails
1914 2011-06-01 14:40:33 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: therefore, they can't return the modified response, which means they wouldn't be in compliance
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1919 2011-06-01 14:40:50 <jrmithdobbs> and this is why suits shouldn't be legislating shit they don't understand
1920 2011-06-01 14:40:58 <jrmithdobbs> they don't grasp the side effects.
1921 2011-06-01 14:41:11 <iz> tubes don't have side effects
1922 2011-06-01 14:41:23 <BlueMatt> no, its because they just blindly follow what they are told by mpaa lobbyists
1923 2011-06-01 14:41:23 psymin has joined
1924 2011-06-01 14:41:37 <jrmithdobbs> completely ignoring the fact that taking control of their dns does zero to actually address the problem
1925 2011-06-01 14:41:39 kish has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1926 2011-06-01 14:41:41 <iz> well, it's not just mpaa lobbiests anymore
1927 2011-06-01 14:41:43 <BlueMatt> though that doesnt outlaw dnssec btw
1928 2011-06-01 14:41:55 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: it outlaws effective deployment of it.
1929 2011-06-01 14:42:14 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: because now it puts validation costs on the client instead of the isps resolvers where it should be
1930 2011-06-01 14:42:18 <BlueMatt> no, it means resolvers on the isp level have to be able to override dnssec on names they want to block
1931 2011-06-01 14:42:28 <jrmithdobbs> which they can't do
1932 2011-06-01 14:42:35 <BlueMatt> yes they can
1933 2011-06-01 14:42:45 <BlueMatt> the end-users will never bother checking dnssec sigs
1934 2011-06-01 14:43:06 <jrmithdobbs> no, the keys are stored one level up in the tlds
1935 2011-06-01 14:43:19 <jrmithdobbs> so if they override it by definition does not validate
1936 2011-06-01 14:43:24 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: just redirect the IP rather than the domain
1937 2011-06-01 14:43:26 <devon_hillard> is EC2 or other PAAS framework economical with bitcoin mining?
1938 2011-06-01 14:43:31 <BlueMatt> yea, dns resolvers on the isp level will do dnssec, but ignore stuff on blocked sites
1939 2011-06-01 14:43:33 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: no
1940 2011-06-01 14:43:36 <iz> devon_hillard: nope
1941 2011-06-01 14:43:48 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: which breaks the entire concept of dnssec making it worthless
1942 2011-06-01 14:43:53 <BlueMatt> they will just ignore dnssec on sites they dont like
1943 2011-06-01 14:44:03 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: whether directly or not the side effect is outlawing proper dnssec adoption.
1944 2011-06-01 14:44:04 <BlueMatt> its still valid for sites they dont block
1945 2011-06-01 14:44:44 <BlueMatt> anyway, it doesnt block dnssec, but is still much more stupid
1946 2011-06-01 14:44:50 DD- has quit ()
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1948 2011-06-01 14:46:02 <jrmithdobbs> it blocks proper implementation of dnssec at the isp level which is one of the major holdups to dnssec rollout
1949 2011-06-01 14:46:11 <jrmithdobbs> i fail to see how it doesn't
1950 2011-06-01 14:46:15 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1951 2011-06-01 14:46:27 <BlueMatt> no isps will do proper dnssec perfectly for 99.999% of sites
1952 2011-06-01 14:46:28 <jrmithdobbs> once you start selectively ignoring dnssec sigs for random zones the whole thing is pointless
1953 2011-06-01 14:46:39 <BlueMatt> not at all
1954 2011-06-01 14:46:50 <jrmithdobbs> um, how doesn't it?
1955 2011-06-01 14:46:56 <BlueMatt> it means you cant dnsspoof sites which are more important like banks
1956 2011-06-01 14:47:09 <BlueMatt> nor can you dnsspoof the blocked sites
1957 2011-06-01 14:47:11 <jrmithdobbs> if you can't trust that your isp's "validating" resolvers for some sites you can't trust them for any
1958 2011-06-01 14:47:17 <BlueMatt> as those would be "masters" on the isps side
1959 2011-06-01 14:47:29 <BlueMatt> well that is a more fundamental problem
1960 2011-06-01 14:47:30 <jrmithdobbs> which means we're back to dns cache poisoning problems that dnssec was meant to prevent, at least for unliked domains
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1962 2011-06-01 14:47:53 <jrmithdobbs> and the responsibility is put back on the end user to ensure they're running a properly implemented validating resolver themselves
1963 2011-06-01 14:47:56 <BlueMatt> you cant trust your isp at all to begin with imho, but you still can trust them to dnssec most sites
1964 2011-06-01 14:48:15 glassresistor has joined
1965 2011-06-01 14:48:38 <jrmithdobbs> you should be able to trust them for basic internet services like proper dns caching
1966 2011-06-01 14:49:44 * devon_hillard just realized new blocks would still be 'mined' even after the money tap runs dry
1967 2011-06-01 14:49:53 bk128 has joined
1968 2011-06-01 14:50:00 <devon_hillard> now it makes sense :)
1969 2011-06-01 14:50:03 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: at which point, also, i can see isps blocking outbound dns requests outside of their network to ensure that they conform to the letter of the law
1970 2011-06-01 14:50:24 <jrmithdobbs> (some already do for "bandwidth" reasons, which is BS)
1971 2011-06-01 14:50:47 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: yea, I could too, but you just use tor and be done with it...
1972 2011-06-01 14:50:55 caedes has joined
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1975 2011-06-01 14:51:15 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: and then they block tor.
1976 2011-06-01 14:51:25 <BlueMatt> that they cant really do...
1977 2011-06-01 14:51:33 <jrmithdobbs> they'll try
1978 2011-06-01 14:51:34 <diki> never heard of of int main in a header
1979 2011-06-01 14:51:42 * diki implies serialize.h
1980 2011-06-01 14:51:50 <wumpus> even china doesn't succeed in blocking tor
1981 2011-06-01 14:51:52 <BlueMatt> they can try to block exit nodes, but that gets *really* hard
1982 2011-06-01 14:51:54 kish has joined
1983 2011-06-01 14:52:51 <wumpus> tor is still useful without exit nodes
1984 2011-06-01 14:52:52 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: these are the same companies that are ok with this domain redirection crap ... because they're mostly owned by the same companies who are lobbying for the shit in the first place
1985 2011-06-01 14:52:56 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: you forget that
1986 2011-06-01 14:53:04 <diki> AppInit2-the fun starts there
1987 2011-06-01 14:54:11 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: no, I dont forget that...I agree isps are fucking untrustworthy and are douchebags...but there are always ways around it
1988 2011-06-01 14:54:57 <diki> they may be untrustworthy there
1989 2011-06-01 14:55:05 <diki> but my ISP for an example knows i download torrents
1990 2011-06-01 14:55:05 Phoebus has joined
1991 2011-06-01 14:55:20 <BlueMatt> who is your isp?
1992 2011-06-01 14:55:24 <diki> hell, they even offered they're own server for movies(dled from torrents)
1993 2011-06-01 14:55:30 <diki> although it was raided
1994 2011-06-01 14:55:40 <BlueMatt> wtf isp do you have?
1995 2011-06-01 14:56:00 <diki> Wtf isp do YOU have matt
1996 2011-06-01 14:56:09 <naturalethic> anyone here build on mac os and get a ton of integer precision conversion warnings?
1997 2011-06-01 14:56:12 <diki> that you dont trust
1998 2011-06-01 14:56:16 <BlueMatt> shitty dt
1999 2011-06-01 14:56:25 <diki> i trust mine very much. Been with them for years now
2000 2011-06-01 14:56:26 <BlueMatt> wtf isp offers a seedbox for their customers?
2001 2011-06-01 14:56:29 <diki> about 5 to be exact
2002 2011-06-01 14:56:36 <BlueMatt> and their name is...?
2003 2011-06-01 14:56:49 <diki> it WAS ComNet
2004 2011-06-01 14:56:55 <diki> but i am NOT in the US you know
2005 2011-06-01 14:57:01 <BlueMatt> naturalethic: there are a ton of warnings unless you disable them ;)
2006 2011-06-01 14:57:25 <diki> it was a cool name, but it was merged with a major cable company
2007 2011-06-01 14:57:28 <naturalethic> BlueMatt: yes i see :) i think xcode has them all enabled
2008 2011-06-01 14:57:34 <diki> so now it's not called that anymore
2009 2011-06-01 14:57:42 <BlueMatt> diki: and now it is called...?
2010 2011-06-01 14:57:45 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: backassward eastern european countries with no ip laws == diki
2011 2011-06-01 14:57:58 <BlueMatt> ah, well that too
2012 2011-06-01 14:58:02 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: they'll get theres eventually
2013 2011-06-01 14:58:06 <jrmithdobbs> s/theres/theirs/
2014 2011-06-01 14:58:16 <BlueMatt> as soon as comast buys them all up ;)
2015 2011-06-01 14:58:19 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 156000000
2016 2011-06-01 14:58:20 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 156000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 3 hours, 19 minutes, and 33 seconds
2017 2011-06-01 14:58:34 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 156000
2018 2011-06-01 14:58:35 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 156000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 19 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours, 52 minutes, and 2 seconds
2019 2011-06-01 14:59:01 <diki> i like no laws
2020 2011-06-01 14:59:11 <diki> ==doing whatever i want
2021 2011-06-01 14:59:22 <wumpus> yeah it's not backward at all
2022 2011-06-01 14:59:22 <jrmithdobbs> diki: ya i give that crap maybe 10 years tops
2023 2011-06-01 14:59:22 <BlueMatt> and you wonder why your economies are all shit
2024 2011-06-01 14:59:30 <jrmithdobbs> for exactly that reason ^
2025 2011-06-01 14:59:44 <diki> i've been pretty much downloading movies,games,anything for 5 years now
2026 2011-06-01 14:59:53 <jrmithdobbs> so does everyone in the states
2027 2011-06-01 14:59:57 <diki> the only game i bought was minecraft, the other is Crysis 2 but only the key
2028 2011-06-01 15:00:16 cornfeed has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2029 2011-06-01 15:00:19 <jrmithdobbs> the laws here and most of the eu just haven't caught up to the real world yet
2030 2011-06-01 15:00:23 <naturalethic> ++ for minecraft purchase :)
2031 2011-06-01 15:00:25 <diki> I dont understand tho...these 51 states if i remember from the movie
2032 2011-06-01 15:00:30 <diki> why?
2033 2011-06-01 15:00:31 <BlueMatt> yea, Im getting ~13.5% of nodes as accepting incoming connections
2034 2011-06-01 15:00:37 cornfeed has joined
2035 2011-06-01 15:00:39 <jrmithdobbs> because the old media fuckers still cling on to life just enough to have lobbying power to try and legally enforce their broken distribution/business models
2036 2011-06-01 15:00:40 <diki> Why not just one Big America and be done with it
2037 2011-06-01 15:00:49 <jrmithdobbs> it'll sort itself within the next 10-20
2038 2011-06-01 15:00:52 <wumpus> jrmithdobbs: exactly
2039 2011-06-01 15:01:06 <diki> dont misunderstand, wont happen
2040 2011-06-01 15:01:23 <diki> people here do not know that you need to BUY most of the things out there
2041 2011-06-01 15:01:29 qwebirc57583 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2042 2011-06-01 15:01:45 <diki> if any anti-piracy group goes on raids, 90% of the country must be arrested
2043 2011-06-01 15:01:54 <jrmithdobbs> diki: honestly that section of the world's views on copyright as it applies to music/movies/etc is fine by me
2044 2011-06-01 15:01:59 <devon_hillard> is this correct, at current difficulty you can make 2-3 BTC per hour from 10 HD 5770?
2045 2011-06-01 15:02:37 <jrmithdobbs> diki: the lack of laws for civil action when, for example, you have some outsourcing dev shop that fucks over a client, steals their code and sells it as their own when it was explicitly made as a work for hire .... THAT i have issue with
2046 2011-06-01 15:02:56 <diki> which would be?
2047 2011-06-01 15:03:02 <diki> give a more clearer example
2048 2011-06-01 15:04:05 <jrmithdobbs> clearer example than what? outsource shops blatantly stealing code they made as works for hire for other companies then turning around and selling it as their own is pretty much the best example of copyright/ip laws doing what *they're supposed* to do when said client can turn around and sue them out of business for it
2049 2011-06-01 15:04:09 <diki> Seems you had an issue with someone stealing your code?
2050 2011-06-01 15:04:28 <jrmithdobbs> no
2051 2011-06-01 15:04:35 <jrmithdobbs> but this happens
2052 2011-06-01 15:04:38 <jrmithdobbs> often
2053 2011-06-01 15:04:44 <wumpus> jrmithdobbs: does it?
2054 2011-06-01 15:05:11 <jrmithdobbs> and it's why, eg, the ukraine has locked down some IP laws in the last few years and they're prospering from their cheap intellectual workers now because of it
2055 2011-06-01 15:05:30 <jrmithdobbs> wumpus: yes, happened to a place i worked for after i left
2056 2011-06-01 15:06:05 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2057 2011-06-01 15:06:25 <wumpus> right, that's bad
2058 2011-06-01 15:06:42 <wumpus> the problem with ip laws though is that they're very easily abused
2059 2011-06-01 15:06:50 <jrmithdobbs> yes
2060 2011-06-01 15:07:19 <jrmithdobbs> i hate most ip laws, especially in relation to "digital media," but being a grown up in the real world I understand why they exist
2061 2011-06-01 15:07:20 sabalabas has joined
2062 2011-06-01 15:07:46 <jrmithdobbs> but then, none of said ip laws will be justified until patent/copyright law is paired back down to what it was originally intended to be
2063 2011-06-01 15:07:49 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
2064 2011-06-01 15:08:03 <wumpus> some kind of ip laws probably need to exist, but the current ones extending copyright to eternity are kind of clueless
2065 2011-06-01 15:08:06 <jrmithdobbs> 100+ year copyrights arefucking retarded.
2066 2011-06-01 15:08:10 <naturalethic> all ip is censorship
2067 2011-06-01 15:08:11 <wumpus> right
2068 2011-06-01 15:08:16 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2069 2011-06-01 15:08:32 <jrmithdobbs> if we took copyright back down to where patent limits are still at today that'd be a vast improvement
2070 2011-06-01 15:08:35 <magnetron> IP is government issued monopoly
2071 2011-06-01 15:08:43 <jrmithdobbs> it really needs to go back to 7 years imho
2072 2011-06-01 15:08:45 Phoebus has joined
2073 2011-06-01 15:08:46 AnatolV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2074 2011-06-01 15:08:51 <naturalethic> magnetron: yup
2075 2011-06-01 15:08:57 <wumpus> 7 years is more than enough in today's fast world
2076 2011-06-01 15:09:02 <wumpus> agreed
2077 2011-06-01 15:09:27 <jrmithdobbs> magnetron: it absolutely is. and when it has sane time limits it makes sense.
2078 2011-06-01 15:09:35 <naturalethic> magnetron: 1st amendment makes copyright and patent illegal
2079 2011-06-01 15:09:47 <magnetron> someone made a mathematical study on the society-wide economic profit, found that 14 years was the sweet spot maximizing profit for everyone
2080 2011-06-01 15:09:53 <jrmithdobbs> whats the point of developing some new awesome manufacturing process if you can wait for you competitor to do it and then just sell it as your own
2081 2011-06-01 15:10:06 <diki> i dont really follow your discussion, but is it good or bad for pirates?
2082 2011-06-01 15:10:09 <naturalethic> jrmithdobbs: liberty
2083 2011-06-01 15:10:23 <jrmithdobbs> naturalethic: take your cyberpunk idealism and shove it up your ass
2084 2011-06-01 15:10:28 <jrmithdobbs> naturalethic: <3
2085 2011-06-01 15:10:32 sabalabas has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2086 2011-06-01 15:10:32 <naturalethic> jrmithdobbs: hey now
2087 2011-06-01 15:10:53 <naturalethic> no need to get nasty
2088 2011-06-01 15:11:27 <BlueMatt> ip serves a purpose, but atm its ass-backwardly written
2089 2011-06-01 15:11:42 <jrmithdobbs> naturalethic: no need to add to the 'HURR COPYRIGHT EVIL' spewed all over the internet already. it does nothing but further the view by legislators/etc that the people arguing against the current system want nothing but free movies and shit
2090 2011-06-01 15:12:06 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2091 2011-06-01 15:12:07 <naturalethic> jrsmithdobbs: i'm reflecting from first principals
2092 2011-06-01 15:12:34 <jrmithdobbs> naturalethic: copyright/patents, when not in a state of retardation, have already proven to be quite useful to society as whole
2093 2011-06-01 15:12:35 <naturalethic> from a philisophical, not pirating stand point
2094 2011-06-01 15:13:10 <jrmithdobbs> naturalethic: reference: industrial revolution, motion pictures, transitors, microprocessors, etc .... all of these were brought to you by evil copyrights and patent law.
2095 2011-06-01 15:13:35 <naturalethic> jrmithdobbs: utility as determined by any given party does not validate the usurpation of individual liberty
2096 2011-06-01 15:13:50 <jrmithdobbs> naturalethic: utility by society as a whole, does.
2097 2011-06-01 15:13:55 <BlueMatt> lol if you think half of those would have been invented w/o ip you are an idiot
2098 2011-06-01 15:14:08 <BlueMatt> great you invented something amazing after investing millions into its development
2099 2011-06-01 15:14:09 <jrmithdobbs> naturalethic: go back to philo 101 and stop shitting up my internet.
2100 2011-06-01 15:14:21 <magnetron> without patents, nobody would invent the wheel
2101 2011-06-01 15:14:22 <naturalethic> jrmithdobbs: that is your subjective opinion, as you are not omnicient
2102 2011-06-01 15:14:25 <BlueMatt> now your competitors take it and make it w/o spending ant r&d
2103 2011-06-01 15:15:20 Kurtov has joined
2104 2011-06-01 15:15:38 <wumpus> wow, almost like open source
2105 2011-06-01 15:15:53 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, basic ip works for a lot of shit, but the life of the author + 70 or is it 90? is just absurd
2106 2011-06-01 15:16:11 <BlueMatt> now that is very true
2107 2011-06-01 15:16:34 <BlueMatt> it is something needed, but it is in serious need of update from the current system
2108 2011-06-01 15:17:19 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2109 2011-06-01 15:17:26 cornfeed has quit ()
2110 2011-06-01 15:18:07 <Phoebus> When are the new transfer charges going to be applied? (aka 0.01 is getting to be too expensive).
2111 2011-06-01 15:18:22 <BlueMatt> 0.4.0
2112 2011-06-01 15:18:33 <Phoebus> Any eta?
2113 2011-06-01 15:18:34 <BlueMatt> maybe...a month?
2114 2011-06-01 15:18:37 <Phoebus> ok
2115 2011-06-01 15:18:46 <BlueMatt> but there is really no way to know
2116 2011-06-01 15:18:51 dukeleto has joined
2117 2011-06-01 15:18:51 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2118 2011-06-01 15:19:07 qwebirc2186 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2119 2011-06-01 15:20:41 <diki> will there be RC7 or you hitting release next?
2120 2011-06-01 15:21:00 <BlueMatt> unless someone comes up with an issue in rc6, rc7 is final
2121 2011-06-01 15:21:53 <jgarzik> yep
2122 2011-06-01 15:21:53 <SerajewelKS> yay
2123 2011-06-01 15:22:44 <phantomcircuit> where can i download rc6?
2124 2011-06-01 15:22:47 dukeleto has joined
2125 2011-06-01 15:22:49 <phantomcircuit> >:)
2126 2011-06-01 15:23:00 <BlueMatt> forum or sf
2127 2011-06-01 15:23:06 <phantomcircuit> nah just kidding
2128 2011-06-01 15:23:15 <jgarzik> Phoebus: once you have 0.3.22[-test], you can simply set TX fee to the new, lower fee manually
2129 2011-06-01 15:23:41 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, my i3 3.5GHz has been building wxwidgets for fucking 45 minutes now
2130 2011-06-01 15:23:48 <jgarzik> https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.22/test/
2131 2011-06-01 15:23:49 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
2132 2011-06-01 15:24:25 <phantomcircuit> also to build 2.9.1 cross compile you need to change some shit
2133 2011-06-01 15:24:29 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: 0.3.22 still does max(GetMinFee(), nTransactionFee * (1+kb)) to set fee
2134 2011-06-01 15:24:39 <BlueMatt> so you cant override GetMinFee()
2135 2011-06-01 15:24:53 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: I didnt need to
2136 2011-06-01 15:25:12 <phantomcircuit> there's some problem with mingw32's gdiplus and UINT16
2137 2011-06-01 15:25:21 <phantomcircuit> apparently it's a known issue without a real solution
2138 2011-06-01 15:26:02 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: this works for me: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/blob/crosscompile/doc/build-linux-win32.txt
2139 2011-06-01 15:27:17 <jaromil> sometimes i feel for wx the same things i feel for java
2140 2011-06-01 15:27:53 <jaromil> and btw, in a perfect world everyone would be using fltk now
2141 2011-06-01 15:27:54 <BlueMatt> meh its not quite *that* bad
2142 2011-06-01 15:28:12 <jaromil> BlueMatt: yea, i said *sometimes*
2143 2011-06-01 15:28:17 <magnetron> wx is one of the best cross-platform toolkits out there
2144 2011-06-01 15:28:40 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, http://trac.wxwidgets.org/ticket/13113
2145 2011-06-01 15:28:45 <phantomcircuit> im not crazy i swear :P
2146 2011-06-01 15:28:49 Akinava has quit (Quit: УÑ
Ð¾Ð¶Ñ Ñ Ð¾Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ)
2147 2011-06-01 15:28:58 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
2148 2011-06-01 15:29:02 <jaromil> magnetron: sure, also "java is one of the best cross-platform languages out there"
2149 2011-06-01 15:29:09 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: mhe, I never said you were, just that it works fine with no mods for me (on ubuntu)
2150 2011-06-01 15:29:26 <jaromil> i just wonder what's the problem in spending a bit more time and brain and code something more
2151 2011-06-01 15:29:58 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2152 2011-06-01 15:29:59 <jaromil> rather than do things fast and furiously and crappy, ending up consuming lots more resources on the longer term to run them
2153 2011-06-01 15:30:02 AStove has quit ()
2154 2011-06-01 15:30:07 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, cookies
2155 2011-06-01 15:31:14 <BlueMatt> ?
2156 2011-06-01 15:31:24 <phantomcircuit> hmm
2157 2011-06-01 15:31:26 <phantomcircuit> im hungry
2158 2011-06-01 15:31:27 <BlueMatt> finally looking at this patch: why do you need it in a while?
2159 2011-06-01 15:31:28 <phantomcircuit> just sharing
2160 2011-06-01 15:32:10 <BlueMatt> (sorry if Im being thick)
2161 2011-06-01 15:32:18 <diki> lol, thick
2162 2011-06-01 15:33:03 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, well the way i did it is horrible
2163 2011-06-01 15:33:12 <phantomcircuit> it sets the socket non blocking
2164 2011-06-01 15:34:12 <BlueMatt> and why do you need a loop? cant you just check socket, sleep(x), check socket->return or do something useful?
2165 2011-06-01 15:34:45 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, sure but then it takes however long every time regardless of when the connect actually works
2166 2011-06-01 15:35:24 <BlueMatt> ah, sorry I had read that bit wrong...
2167 2011-06-01 15:35:25 <jrmithdobbs> naturalethic: i hope the cult of rand keeps you comforted enough about being a sociopath so that you can sleep at night
2168 2011-06-01 15:35:30 * BlueMatt is blind
2169 2011-06-01 15:35:31 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2170 2011-06-01 15:35:46 <coptic> ayn rand worshipped a serial killer
2171 2011-06-01 15:36:14 <naturalethic> jrmithdobbs: ok guy
2172 2011-06-01 15:36:15 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
2173 2011-06-01 15:36:18 <phantomcircuit> you guys are loverly
2174 2011-06-01 15:37:39 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: that's the only way to do it correctly without using signals (which wont work on win32)
2175 2011-06-01 15:38:09 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, well i could use select/poll
2176 2011-06-01 15:38:10 <phantomcircuit> but fuck it
2177 2011-06-01 15:38:51 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: link to patch
2178 2011-06-01 15:39:59 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, http://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin
2179 2011-06-01 15:40:03 <phantomcircuit> last 2 commits
2180 2011-06-01 15:41:11 <naturalethic> anyone seen an issue with undeclared symbol 'to_internal' using boost on mac os x?
2181 2011-06-01 15:41:46 <diki> cross-compiling sucks, that much i can tell you...
2182 2011-06-01 15:41:49 <jrmithdobbs> that is pretty hacky but looks fine ;P
2183 2011-06-01 15:42:35 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2184 2011-06-01 15:45:12 cboy has joined
2185 2011-06-01 15:45:37 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: with the number of people who i've personally given out my node's ip to in here and in #bitcoin I think something like phantomcircuit's patch there needs to be added before 3.22-final
2186 2011-06-01 15:45:57 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: it's a crapshoot right now whether you can get the initial blockchain downloaded or not on a new client :(
2187 2011-06-01 15:48:08 <diki> What do you guys think about web controlled Speed of fan,clocks and voltage of a GPU as well as controlling the miners?
2188 2011-06-01 15:48:32 Stellar has joined
2189 2011-06-01 15:48:47 <jgarzik> diki: sounds like a question for #bitcoin-mining
2190 2011-06-01 15:49:19 <diki> redirecting then
2191 2011-06-01 15:50:16 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: I would tend to agree, but I really dont want to break release cycle for that...maybe something less intrusive which fixes the problem temporarily?
2192 2011-06-01 15:51:38 sshack has joined
2193 2011-06-01 15:53:41 <jrmithdobbs> diki: i think anyone who would give a remote website that kind of hardware access is on crack.
2194 2011-06-01 15:54:16 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2195 2011-06-01 15:54:30 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: that's pretty un-intrusive and fixes it permenantly though (it should probably be refactored to use poll/select long term but meh)
2196 2011-06-01 15:54:43 <naturalethic> to resolve compiling on mac os x to_internal undeclared, I had to add #include <boost/program_options/detail/convert.hpp> to headers.h
2197 2011-06-01 15:54:50 <BlueMatt> meh, jgarzik's opinion?
2198 2011-06-01 15:55:27 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: on what?
2199 2011-06-01 15:55:57 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: changing timeout on connect before 0.3.22 final
2200 2011-06-01 15:55:57 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit's patch?
2201 2011-06-01 15:56:11 <BlueMatt> not strictly his patch, but in general fixing the bug now
2202 2011-06-01 15:56:17 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: craziness :) it's not a regression from 0.3.21 but an ancient bug.
2203 2011-06-01 15:56:24 <jgarzik> we don't break -rc for that
2204 2011-06-01 15:56:51 <BlueMatt> yea that is what I was thinking, still it does need fixed really quick
2205 2011-06-01 15:57:14 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the "bug" has been present for ages, I don't see urgency
2206 2011-06-01 15:58:03 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the P2P code peer selection (incl. connect) needs revisiting, it's pretty awful code
2207 2011-06-01 15:58:38 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: people really should be downloading your block chain nightly + -dnsseed
2208 2011-06-01 15:58:38 <BlueMatt> it has just started becoming a very commonly experienced bug recently due to the number of new nodes which do not accept incoming connections increasing so dramatically
2209 2011-06-01 15:58:47 nixh4ck has quit (Quit: in /dev/null no one can hear you scream...)
2210 2011-06-01 15:59:02 <jgarzik> just tell people -dnsseed
2211 2011-06-01 15:59:44 <BlueMatt> well then can we enable -dnsseed by default for 0.3.22?
2212 2011-06-01 15:59:51 <BlueMatt> too many complaints of late...
2213 2011-06-01 16:00:39 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the faster we get 0.3.22 out the door, the faster we get 0.4 with these improvements in people's hands :)
2214 2011-06-01 16:01:04 Fabianius has joined
2215 2011-06-01 16:01:09 <BlueMatt> true...
2216 2011-06-01 16:02:25 <BlueMatt> meh I dont know...its just become such an issue of late...anyway for 0.4.0 Id like to get this dnsseed script running on a couple vms and then just set dnsseed by default
2217 2011-06-01 16:02:41 <BlueMatt> its working pretty well - `dig @ns1.bluematt.me dnsseed.bitcoin.bit`
2218 2011-06-01 16:02:48 <BlueMatt> should give you a new set of addresses every time
2219 2011-06-01 16:02:57 <BlueMatt> all of them guaranteed to be up :)
2220 2011-06-01 16:02:59 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yep... good stuff :
2221 2011-06-01 16:03:40 <BlueMatt> now I just need a vps...who runs the other dnssed...vladimir?
2222 2011-06-01 16:03:46 <jgarzik> yes
2223 2011-06-01 16:04:12 <jgarzik> I need to look at dnspark's APIs, to see if I can rotate addresses
2224 2011-06-01 16:04:16 <jgarzik> I think I can
2225 2011-06-01 16:04:22 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: What health checks are you doing beyond seeing if its up?
2226 2011-06-01 16:05:50 <jrmithdobbs> tbqh that fix is more important than anything else that's in 3.22 as it stands anyways
2227 2011-06-01 16:05:51 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: it connects gets version, and only puts it in the db if it is >=0.3.19 (configurable)
2228 2011-06-01 16:06:15 Titeuf_87 has joined
2229 2011-06-01 16:06:19 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: should probably check that it's somewhere near your node's idea of the current height?
2230 2011-06-01 16:07:05 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: meh, too complicated...the point of dnsseed is to get the list of nodes which might have a list of nodes you can branch out to, not strictly to get a good node which can seed you the chain
2231 2011-06-01 16:09:43 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I asked because on IRC I've connected to apparently islanded nodes that only seemed to know about other islanded nodes. E.g. you can get a graph where nodes end up isolated or only connected to the main network through one congested link. I guess those won't last, but when a lot of the nodes are new it appears to happen.
2232 2011-06-01 16:09:53 MT`AwAy is now known as MagicalTux
2233 2011-06-01 16:09:58 <gmaxwell> I guess the check for actually listening is a pretty good filter though.
2234 2011-06-01 16:10:20 agricocb has joined
2235 2011-06-01 16:11:47 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yea, that should solve most of the issues and make the net much healthier, plus isolated nodes shouldnt last long, they should get connected pretty quick
2236 2011-06-01 16:11:57 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/dnsseed <- current version
2237 2011-06-01 16:14:35 lumos has joined
2238 2011-06-01 16:15:15 <pwrcycle> does bitcoind or pushpool show the block it's currently working on anywhere?
2239 2011-06-01 16:15:20 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2240 2011-06-01 16:15:24 lumos is now known as sixyearolds
2241 2011-06-01 16:16:39 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2242 2011-06-01 16:17:14 sixyearolds is now known as lesbian
2243 2011-06-01 16:17:20 <pwrcycle> i wrote a script to gather shares from the last block in shares.log, but it's not necesarily the current share: http://pool.cloakvpn.com/watchshares.html
2244 2011-06-01 16:18:03 lesbian is now known as eighteenyearoldg
2245 2011-06-01 16:18:11 eighteenyearoldg is now known as man
2246 2011-06-01 16:18:21 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i think the whole "one connection per class b" thing needs to be reevaluated as well
2247 2011-06-01 16:18:31 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: why so?
2248 2011-06-01 16:18:41 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: it made sense when the network was smaller
2249 2011-06-01 16:19:07 man is now known as financialstandar
2250 2011-06-01 16:19:18 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: but especially for new clients, maybe it should only be adjusted for new clients with no addr.dat?, it makes the process of getting the initial blockchain slower/more tedius
2251 2011-06-01 16:19:22 <jrmithdobbs> tedious
2252 2011-06-01 16:19:23 financialstandar is now known as lawyerstudent
2253 2011-06-01 16:19:26 <BlueMatt> I agree that something else in your class b might be useful for good download speed, but its still a security threat and I dont see a good solution if you turn it off
2254 2011-06-01 16:20:05 <jrmithdobbs> except that you will accept connections from multiple people on the same class b just not initiate
2255 2011-06-01 16:20:10 <jrmithdobbs> so it's not mitigating any security issue as is
2256 2011-06-01 16:20:18 <BlueMatt> yes it is, it mitigates sybil
2257 2011-06-01 16:20:37 lawyerstudent is now known as lesbiman
2258 2011-06-01 16:20:37 darrob has quit (Disconnected by services)
2259 2011-06-01 16:20:39 <jrmithdobbs> only on initial connect, and only slightly since you only ever make 8 outbound connections without code mods
2260 2011-06-01 16:20:42 <BlueMatt> that way you cant sybil with a ton of nodes on one net
2261 2011-06-01 16:20:45 darrob has joined
2262 2011-06-01 16:20:50 <gmaxwell> It's not a security threat for blocks below the binding point in any case.
2263 2011-06-01 16:21:06 gwelymernan has joined
2264 2011-06-01 16:21:11 <gmaxwell> (er, binding point meaning the hashes fixed into the code at varrious heights)
2265 2011-06-01 16:21:38 <jrmithdobbs> unless i've read the code wrong that limitation only applies to outbound connections
2266 2011-06-01 16:21:40 <BlueMatt> not at all, it only applies to the 8...think of it this way...assume all incoming connections are bad (as an attacker can easily connect to you 125-8 times). now its what you do with the 8 thats important
2267 2011-06-01 16:21:53 <BlueMatt> so the 8 has to be one per /8
2268 2011-06-01 16:22:01 <jrmithdobbs> but at that point it doesn't matter
2269 2011-06-01 16:22:11 <jrmithdobbs> because the attacker appears to be 90% of the network to you already.
2270 2011-06-01 16:22:15 <BlueMatt> so?
2271 2011-06-01 16:22:23 <BlueMatt> they have to be 100% for sybil to work
2272 2011-06-01 16:22:31 <gmaxwell> Yea, the system is not doing majority votes...
2273 2011-06-01 16:22:49 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: not to influence the time in fun network-breaking-for-that-node ways
2274 2011-06-01 16:22:51 <gmaxwell> though being 90% of your network does let them crap all over your network time.
2275 2011-06-01 16:23:01 <jrmithdobbs> (but this comes back to network time being dumb to begin with)
2276 2011-06-01 16:23:05 <BlueMatt> ok the time-stamping stuff is a separate issue
2277 2011-06-01 16:23:12 <BlueMatt> how so?
2278 2011-06-01 16:24:08 <gmaxwell> I don't agree that network time is stupid, though it does currently have a bunch of problems (including security impacting ones)
2279 2011-06-01 16:24:13 <jrmithdobbs> with some investigative work if you find two high priority targetes you can push one's time +70min and one's -70min and cause a split between those nodes
2280 2011-06-01 16:24:36 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2281 2011-06-01 16:24:44 <jrmithdobbs> giving you ~2 hours of time to perform other fun activities
2282 2011-06-01 16:24:49 <BlueMatt> yes, the network time stuff is a problem, but that is something that needs to be discussed separately
2283 2011-06-01 16:25:06 <BlueMatt> but that by no means means you should disable the one per class b stuff
2284 2011-06-01 16:25:12 <gmaxwell> I agree. That issue is real, but it's real regardless of the peer selection.
2285 2011-06-01 16:25:17 Crshman has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2286 2011-06-01 16:25:43 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i think for the initial connect (maybe only when there's no addr.dat or nothing in addr.dat can be connected to) 2 per class b for the initial attempt to get the block chain wouldn't be world destroying
2287 2011-06-01 16:26:01 <BlueMatt> why?
2288 2011-06-01 16:26:13 <BlueMatt> and yes, it would...remember you only have 8 connections
2289 2011-06-01 16:26:15 <jrmithdobbs> in fact, i'd say you should prefer nodes on *your own* class b
2290 2011-06-01 16:26:18 kluge has joined
2291 2011-06-01 16:26:24 <jrmithdobbs> only for initial init
2292 2011-06-01 16:26:35 <BlueMatt> yes, but as long as you still have only one on that class
2293 2011-06-01 16:26:55 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: well, for instance, the way isps have addresses chunked out in the states
2294 2011-06-01 16:27:06 <gmaxwell> (I'd like it to do the initial init from the host .. sitting right next to it. :) )
2295 2011-06-01 16:27:29 <lfm> gmaxwell: you can always -addnode
2296 2011-06-01 16:27:31 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: you have yet to give a security reason why its ok to remove the 1 per class b restriction
2297 2011-06-01 16:27:33 lesbiman is now known as vitaminD
2298 2011-06-01 16:27:33 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: anyone on my isp within a geographic area that would make using their bandwidth vs someone else's more efficient is going to be on the same class b
2299 2011-06-01 16:27:36 <BlueMatt> there is a very valid reason to have that
2300 2011-06-01 16:27:39 <gmaxwell> stop saying "class b" lest I be forced to stab you. "/16" CIDR has been around for 20 years.
2301 2011-06-01 16:27:42 <BlueMatt> sybil
2302 2011-06-01 16:27:48 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: I'm saying just for the initial blockchain download
2303 2011-06-01 16:27:57 <gmaxwell> There is no sybil attack for blocks below the hard coded blockhead.
2304 2011-06-01 16:27:58 <jrmithdobbs> because that's where people are getting stuck
2305 2011-06-01 16:27:59 <BlueMatt> how is that any different from later download?
2306 2011-06-01 16:28:11 <lfm> gmaxwell: are you diablo?
2307 2011-06-01 16:28:13 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: people can say there are only 10 blocks...
2308 2011-06-01 16:28:23 <jrmithdobbs> it's different because it's 500MB+ in one chunk
2309 2011-06-01 16:28:29 <gmaxwell> lfm: I am deeply offended by that question. :-/
2310 2011-06-01 16:28:39 <diki> lololo
2311 2011-06-01 16:28:45 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: its different, but still vulnerable to attack
2312 2011-06-01 16:28:47 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: the software has the height hard coded into it.
2313 2011-06-01 16:29:03 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: and if the blocks they got fed on initial download they'd find out as soon as they connected to the real net and split
2314 2011-06-01 16:29:10 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: er, "a height", and the hashes at that height.
2315 2011-06-01 16:29:29 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: thats the point of sybil, if you get all 8, they wont connect
2316 2011-06-01 16:29:34 <BlueMatt> hence why we have one per/16
2317 2011-06-01 16:29:41 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i don't think you're understand what i'm proposing
2318 2011-06-01 16:29:52 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: s/understand/understanding/
2319 2011-06-01 16:29:57 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: and so now you cant download from other nodes who are only half way done?
2320 2011-06-01 16:30:10 <gmaxwell> I think jrmithdobbs is proposing that it change its rules once it gets to the height which is hard coded.
2321 2011-06-01 16:30:30 <BlueMatt> ok, and Im asking why that is less vulnerable to attack?
2322 2011-06-01 16:30:31 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i'm saying a host with no addr.dat and no blockchain should use a completely different set of rules for it's initial connect and download method
2323 2011-06-01 16:30:43 <BlueMatt> how is that less vulnerable to attack?
2324 2011-06-01 16:30:53 <BlueMatt> in fact it may very well be more if you dont have an addr.dat yet
2325 2011-06-01 16:31:05 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: because a brand new client isn't going to be suspetible to the double spends /etc that you worry about sybil for
2326 2011-06-01 16:31:07 <lfm> gmaxwell: oh sorry, are you diablo-d3? shouldnt leave off the version
2327 2011-06-01 16:31:30 <jrmithdobbs> worst case once they reconnect using the "normal" net logic they'll have to re-download because their chain will be bad
2328 2011-06-01 16:31:34 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: yes, but if you sybil them early on, then you control their addr.dat meaning they will only ever connect to you
2329 2011-06-01 16:31:39 <BlueMatt> (assuming -noirc)
2330 2011-06-01 16:31:55 <BlueMatt> or they block irc, which isnt hard
2331 2011-06-01 16:31:56 <Diablo-D3> ?
2332 2011-06-01 16:31:59 <BlueMatt> or mitm irc
2333 2011-06-01 16:31:59 <gmaxwell> lfm: :( I'm going to cry now. You're mean.
2334 2011-06-01 16:32:09 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i'd propose as part of this that addr.dat not be updated except for an "inited" flag or similar to avoid that
2335 2011-06-01 16:32:12 <jrmithdobbs> during this process
2336 2011-06-01 16:32:29 <lfm> Diablo-D3: ok, just you both seem fond of stabbing people
2337 2011-06-01 16:32:43 lonny has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2338 2011-06-01 16:32:50 <Diablo-D3> heh
2339 2011-06-01 16:32:59 <jrmithdobbs> alternatively, y'all could just throw up the blockchain to the hardcoded point on bitcoin.org and have the client attempt a http get of that to grab the initial chain
2340 2011-06-01 16:33:06 <jrmithdobbs> (and fall back to current behaviour if that fails)
2341 2011-06-01 16:33:11 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: now its just getting too complicated for too small a gain...too much effort where it should be spent on thin clients
2342 2011-06-01 16:33:12 <lfm> Diablo-D3: nm, go back to sleep
2343 2011-06-01 16:33:23 <pwrcycle> how do you get output of Hash/sec from pushpool or bitcoind.
2344 2011-06-01 16:33:34 azoff_ has joined
2345 2011-06-01 16:33:39 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2346 2011-06-01 16:33:52 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i'd say that first time user impression is the ultimate gain and that any complication introduced to make the initial setup process easier is worth it in the end.
2347 2011-06-01 16:33:59 <Diablo-D3> pwrcycle: you dont.
2348 2011-06-01 16:34:00 <lfm> pwrcycle: bitcoind if it is doing its own cpu hashing will put it in the log file (debug.log)
2349 2011-06-01 16:34:25 <pwrcycle> Diablo-D3: how does a pool operator figure the Ghash/sec the pool is doing?
2350 2011-06-01 16:34:37 <Diablo-D3> pwrcycle: by using a very inaccurate method
2351 2011-06-01 16:34:39 <jrmithdobbs> pwrcycle: they make an educated guess based on number of shares
2352 2011-06-01 16:34:44 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: another angle would be pulling out the historic chain and making it a fixed blob, with useful data structure.. e.g. perfect hashes for lookup, and a summary of non-redeemed transactions at the end.
2353 2011-06-01 16:34:46 <jrmithdobbs> "educated" is pushing it
2354 2011-06-01 16:34:51 <Diablo-D3> pwrcycle: count every share as 2^32+65536 hashes
2355 2011-06-01 16:35:02 <Diablo-D3> its incredibly incorrect for anything less than, say, 1000 shares a second
2356 2011-06-01 16:35:08 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: I agree, hence we should work on thin clients instead of crazy different initialization stuff that needs a ton of thought to get the security right
2357 2011-06-01 16:35:20 <pwrcycle> Diablo-D3: ah.
2358 2011-06-01 16:35:34 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: the share count depends on the difficultyâ it's possible to have H=0 shares...
2359 2011-06-01 16:35:35 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i tihnk you're worrying about things that aren't an issue until after the initialization point
2360 2011-06-01 16:35:58 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: well yes
2361 2011-06-01 16:35:59 vitaminD is now known as lumos
2362 2011-06-01 16:36:00 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: if the client doesn't even have the blockchain yet they're not suscepitble to double spends/etc
2363 2011-06-01 16:36:03 <Diablo-D3> Im assuing actual diff 1s
2364 2011-06-01 16:36:03 <BlueMatt> but as I pointed out, they can *become* an issue after init if you do them to begin with
2365 2011-06-01 16:36:14 <gmaxwell> thin clients close the initialization issue too...
2366 2011-06-01 16:36:18 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: which is simple enough, just don't update addr.dat during init
2367 2011-06-01 16:36:19 <jrmithdobbs> like i said
2368 2011-06-01 16:36:26 <lfm> yup but then the newbie's first impression can color his whole experience of bitcoin
2369 2011-06-01 16:36:32 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: and if someone is re downloading and will paste their wallet after they are done?
2370 2011-06-01 16:36:53 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: how does that solve it? you still have bad chain and now you have to go back and redownload using the current rules?
2371 2011-06-01 16:36:59 <pwrcycle> Diablo-D3: how can i get the current Block the pool i working on from pushpool or bitcoind?
2372 2011-06-01 16:37:10 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: yes it doesn't fix all scenarios
2373 2011-06-01 16:37:11 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: you can't get a bad chainwith head less than 118000
2374 2011-06-01 16:37:16 <pwrcycle> i want display it here: http://pool.cloakvpn.com/watchshares.html
2375 2011-06-01 16:37:25 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: but it improves the vast majority
2376 2011-06-01 16:37:25 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: how so?
2377 2011-06-01 16:37:28 <gmaxwell> because of the checkpoints in the code.
2378 2011-06-01 16:37:28 <gmaxwell> main.cpp: (nHeight == 118000 && hash != uint256("0x000000000000774a7f8a7a12dc906ddb9e17e75d684f15e00f8767f9e8f36553")))
2379 2011-06-01 16:37:42 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: and if a node just says there are only 1000 blocks?
2380 2011-06-01 16:37:46 <BlueMatt> that check does nothing
2381 2011-06-01 16:37:56 <Diablo-D3> pwrcycle: you cant, you get the header only.
2382 2011-06-01 16:38:16 <gmaxwell> then make the check very slightly better and don't init off nodes that say there are less than the highest hardcoded check.
2383 2011-06-01 16:38:33 <jrmithdobbs> there's already a check for that actually
2384 2011-06-01 16:38:36 <BlueMatt> so now you cant download from nodes who are also halfway done downloading?
2385 2011-06-01 16:38:43 lumos is now known as sixyearolds
2386 2011-06-01 16:38:49 <gmaxwell> or, even the lowest, and blacklist any client that gets that one wrong.
2387 2011-06-01 16:38:49 <jrmithdobbs> if (pindexBest == NULL || (!fTestNet && nBestHeight < 118000)) return true;
2388 2011-06-01 16:38:56 <jrmithdobbs> in IsInitialBlockDownload()
2389 2011-06-01 16:39:10 <lfm> gmaxwell: also you need to allow for testnet and kin
2390 2011-06-01 16:39:20 <BlueMatt> thats just to see if we are up to date, not on other nodes
2391 2011-06-01 16:39:21 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: current code does that with this check
2392 2011-06-01 16:39:23 <BlueMatt> very different thing
2393 2011-06-01 16:39:30 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2394 2011-06-01 16:39:41 <Diablo-D3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18o09yL2Sq8
2395 2011-06-01 16:39:44 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: also the lowest point it checks is 11111 not 11800
2396 2011-06-01 16:39:59 <gmaxwell> yea, I don't think it currently does this. regardless "your peers say there is only 11111" blocks is a real seperate issue.
2397 2011-06-01 16:40:17 <jrmithdobbs> the code would be very easy to extend is this direction is the point
2398 2011-06-01 16:40:21 <jrmithdobbs> as similar checks already exist
2399 2011-06-01 16:40:21 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: its still a sybil attack
2400 2011-06-01 16:40:51 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: so the what's wrong with the hosting through block 11800 on bitcoin.org with gpg sigs of everyone with commit access and using that to bootstrap?
2401 2011-06-01 16:40:51 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: but again it goes back to my point that there is no reason to do something this fancy, go take a look at the half-done thin clients and work on those instead
2402 2011-06-01 16:41:05 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I can run it as a sybil attack already. I can get nodes in a great many /16s pretty easily. So that weakness should be addressed regardless.
2403 2011-06-01 16:41:23 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: thin clients don't help the people who specifically want to run a full client to get the initial chain
2404 2011-06-01 16:41:24 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: you need a *TON* of nodes to do that...
2405 2011-06-01 16:41:38 <gmaxwell> meh I agree that thin clients are more important
2406 2011-06-01 16:41:48 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: that is only needed for miners, and if you want to mine well you probably know enough to wait a day for chain dl anyway
2407 2011-06-01 16:42:08 <gmaxwell> And in the future full clients should use a special data structure for the historic chain in any case.
2408 2011-06-01 16:42:12 <jrmithdobbs> i disagree that it's only useful for miners
2409 2011-06-01 16:42:27 <BlueMatt> why else do you need a full chain?
2410 2011-06-01 16:42:36 <jrmithdobbs> it's also useful for anyone trying to do analysis of past trends and such
2411 2011-06-01 16:42:42 <BlueMatt> its a supernode, leaf node gnutella-style network
2412 2011-06-01 16:42:46 <gmaxwell> Its important to network health that many clients continue to impose the full rules and validate everything.
2413 2011-06-01 16:42:56 <jrmithdobbs> that too
2414 2011-06-01 16:43:09 <BlueMatt> well again, if you are advanced enough to need that stuff you can wait an hour for chain download or -addnode
2415 2011-06-01 16:43:13 <jrmithdobbs> god forbid deepbit and slush be the only two left actually validating anything (no offense)
2416 2011-06-01 16:43:13 <gmaxwell> and the special hardware requirements of mining create a pointless bottleneck if only miners validate.
2417 2011-06-01 16:43:13 <BlueMatt> or dl the current chain
2418 2011-06-01 16:43:13 agent-x has joined
2419 2011-06-01 16:43:30 <BlueMatt> also, please see the thin client discussion thread, specifically the one gavin started where this has been discussed
2420 2011-06-01 16:43:49 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: you realize the intent of bitcoin has always been that miners do the validation
2421 2011-06-01 16:43:57 Mononofu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2422 2011-06-01 16:44:34 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I understood the intent being that mining would be distributed and miners would do the validation.
2423 2011-06-01 16:44:36 cboy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2424 2011-06-01 16:44:50 <gmaxwell> But mining is increasingly less distributed, and that doesn't look like its changing for clear economical reasons.
2425 2011-06-01 16:44:54 Mononofu has joined
2426 2011-06-01 16:44:57 <jrmithdobbs> but at this point what has happened is all the mining has consolidated into pools
2427 2011-06-01 16:45:04 <gmaxwell> So nodes which validate are an important check on consolidated mining.
2428 2011-06-01 16:45:07 <jrmithdobbs> pools were not exactly part of the original design
2429 2011-06-01 16:45:11 <jrmithdobbs> and kind of foul it up tbqh
2430 2011-06-01 16:45:18 JSharp has joined
2431 2011-06-01 16:45:24 <BlueMatt> no, they really dont
2432 2011-06-01 16:45:32 <BlueMatt> they make it slightly less decentralized but so what?
2433 2011-06-01 16:45:44 <BlueMatt> as long as they are still decentralized enough, you wont come under attack
2434 2011-06-01 16:45:56 <jrmithdobbs> they're not decentralized enough as is
2435 2011-06-01 16:46:14 * jgarzik is still amazed that guy lost $81,000 in bitcoins
2436 2011-06-01 16:46:15 <gmaxwell> Under the original design someone with lots of hash power could only double spend. If they tried to generate inflation by allowing duplicate txns they'd be ignored by the network.
2437 2011-06-01 16:46:21 <jrmithdobbs> you could stop almost all txn processing with a few drone nets and hitting deepbit and slush
2438 2011-06-01 16:46:24 <Diablo-D3> who did?
2439 2011-06-01 16:46:27 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: wait, who and how?
2440 2011-06-01 16:46:32 <gmaxwell> (temporary double spends, that is)
2441 2011-06-01 16:46:44 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: http://bitcoined.tumblr.com/post/6073354857/how-to-lose-81-000-in-bitcoins
2442 2011-06-01 16:46:50 <gmaxwell> The person who lost the key to 8999 in change?
2443 2011-06-01 16:46:57 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: bigger
2444 2011-06-01 16:47:00 <gmaxwell> oh.
2445 2011-06-01 16:47:19 <BlueMatt> lol...wow
2446 2011-06-01 16:47:30 <Diablo-D3> ........
2447 2011-06-01 16:47:32 <Diablo-D3> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
2448 2011-06-01 16:47:33 <JSharp> ow....
2449 2011-06-01 16:47:36 <comboy> awesome
2450 2011-06-01 16:47:40 <edcba> there are ways to address that backup wallet problem
2451 2011-06-01 16:47:41 <JSharp> that is a bad day :/
2452 2011-06-01 16:47:59 <BlueMatt> though that needs fixed...keypool needs gen'ed at init not at first use
2453 2011-06-01 16:48:19 <BlueMatt> (it is in walet crypto, but I need to split that into separate commits)
2454 2011-06-01 16:48:25 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: so in a world where miners mine and everyone validate the evil someone with excessive hashpower can do is fairly limited. Respends of their own money. In a world where only miners check then the group as a whole can trivially set bicoin monetary policy by creating inflation by not enforcing eventual consistency with the rules.
2455 2011-06-01 16:49:04 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: there will always be more nodes run by enthusiasts which check everything, just for the hell of it
2456 2011-06-01 16:49:06 Mononofu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2457 2011-06-01 16:49:07 <Diablo-D3> wait
2458 2011-06-01 16:49:10 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: thats what I was talking about he lost 8999 BTC from the change transaction. This was prior to the key pool stuff. It's old.
2459 2011-06-01 16:49:13 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck does that work?
2460 2011-06-01 16:49:13 <BlueMatt> im not concerned about that
2461 2011-06-01 16:49:20 <Diablo-D3> oh
2462 2011-06-01 16:49:23 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: thats bs then
2463 2011-06-01 16:49:27 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: are you sure, that can still easily happen now
2464 2011-06-01 16:49:38 <BlueMatt> keypool is only gen'ed on first use, not on init
2465 2011-06-01 16:49:48 <BlueMatt> which means if you just created the wallet it can still happen today
2466 2011-06-01 16:49:49 <Diablo-D3> ffff
2467 2011-06-01 16:49:50 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: well it sounds just like it.. let me find the post.
2468 2011-06-01 16:49:53 <Diablo-D3> thats bs
2469 2011-06-01 16:50:02 <Diablo-D3> wait
2470 2011-06-01 16:50:16 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit
2471 2011-06-01 16:50:22 <gjs278> anyone this calm didnt lose 81,000
2472 2011-06-01 16:50:31 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=782.0
2473 2011-06-01 16:50:32 <Diablo-D3> gjs278: I think its a thought experiment
2474 2011-06-01 16:50:42 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: pretty sad that the fix for his behavior didn't actually fix it
2475 2011-06-01 16:50:43 <Diablo-D3> 6)
2476 2011-06-01 16:50:44 <Diablo-D3> lol
2477 2011-06-01 16:50:49 <gjs278> who sends 81,000 to a livecd anyways
2478 2011-06-01 16:50:54 <BlueMatt> ah it is really old
2479 2011-06-01 16:51:09 <BlueMatt> and that is when 9000 BTC == a rounding error
2480 2011-06-01 16:51:19 <azoff_> hey almighty bitcoin devs
2481 2011-06-01 16:51:43 <azoff_> newbie bitcoin dev here, recommend any good literature?
2482 2011-06-01 16:51:51 <edcba> bitcoin source code
2483 2011-06-01 16:51:52 <iera> yeah, the source :)
2484 2011-06-01 16:52:00 <azoff_> for the client?
2485 2011-06-01 16:52:07 <iera> and all sorts of c++ stuff if you dont know it already
2486 2011-06-01 16:52:09 <iera> right
2487 2011-06-01 16:52:09 <edcba> the gui yes :)
2488 2011-06-01 16:52:24 dvide has quit ()
2489 2011-06-01 16:52:37 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: but as you point out, if the keypool isn't generated until the first use â it didn't actually fix the problem he ran into!
2490 2011-06-01 16:52:42 <azoff_> all right, sweet
2491 2011-06-01 16:52:49 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
2492 2011-06-01 16:53:01 <gmaxwell> Which is nuts, because keypools were added specifically because of this case (see the thread)
2493 2011-06-01 16:53:37 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yep, I know and I also said it is fixed in wallet encryption branch, meaning it should be in 0.4.0
2494 2011-06-01 16:53:41 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
2495 2011-06-01 16:53:48 <Diablo-D3> >0.4.0
2496 2011-06-01 16:53:49 <Diablo-D3> wat
2497 2011-06-01 16:53:55 <edcba> maybe if his livecd had the seed encoded...
2498 2011-06-01 16:54:06 <edcba> he may be able to get it again
2499 2011-06-01 16:54:11 <edcba> with some bruteforce
2500 2011-06-01 16:56:02 <gmaxwell> edcba: or you couldâ and get a $81k prize.
2501 2011-06-01 16:56:28 <jrmithdobbs> ya that was like $200 in bitcoins at the time wasn't it?
2502 2011-06-01 16:57:17 <edcba> yes i was thinking about it gmaxwell :)
2503 2011-06-01 16:57:30 <edcba> yes it wasn't that much
2504 2011-06-01 16:57:35 <BlueMatt> old debian livecd, go grab it and see what happens
2505 2011-06-01 16:58:11 <edcba> i may give him 500 btc back if i'm able to retrieve them lol
2506 2011-06-01 16:58:38 <Diablo-D3> I should write a miner that mines wallets
2507 2011-06-01 16:58:41 <gmaxwell> Wait.
2508 2011-06-01 16:58:48 <gmaxwell> The connect timeout stuff hasn't been merged yet?
2509 2011-06-01 16:58:55 <BlueMatt> ...no?
2510 2011-06-01 16:59:05 <edcba> now which debian livecd it is ?
2511 2011-06-01 16:59:07 <BlueMatt> he posted it this morning
2512 2011-06-01 16:59:11 <gmaxwell> That sounds nuts to me. There is a serious usability issue with new users getting hung up with no working connectionsâ¦
2513 2011-06-01 16:59:11 <IO---> work? atlas is an asp programmer, and nothing else. gmaxwell FACT
2514 2011-06-01 16:59:34 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: he posted it this morning...unless it was a security patch, nothing gets merged that quick
2515 2011-06-01 16:59:44 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: did you think i was playing devil's advocate on other "temporary workaround" solutions to the issue for no reason? ;P
2516 2011-06-01 16:59:49 <gmaxwell> Okayâ is there any specific testing you're looking for?
2517 2011-06-01 17:00:48 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: tbh I dont think it will be before 0.4.0
2518 2011-06-01 17:00:52 <gmaxwell> I think that really should get in for the next release, considering all the people who have wandered into #bitcoin whining.
2519 2011-06-01 17:00:55 <gmaxwell> ::sigh::
2520 2011-06-01 17:01:21 <BlueMatt> I agree it is very important...but its not hard to work around
2521 2011-06-01 17:01:32 <BlueMatt> tcatm: what do you think?
2522 2011-06-01 17:01:35 cboy has joined
2523 2011-06-01 17:01:44 <gmaxwell> well no.. just constantly restart bitcoin. (or addnode, but most people aren't clueful enough for that)
2524 2011-06-01 17:01:54 <BlueMatt> or -dnsseed
2525 2011-06-01 17:01:58 <phantomcircuit> if anybody is interested i built linux binaries incorporating my connect() patch
2526 2011-06-01 17:02:08 <phantomcircuit> http://bitcoinconsultancy.com/bitcoin-linux.zip
2527 2011-06-01 17:02:28 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: just tell people to use -dnsseed instead, works just as well
2528 2011-06-01 17:02:56 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, dnsseed doesn't help at all if you already have an addr.dat
2529 2011-06-01 17:03:01 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: well, the dnsseed hosts just worked for you at the time you tested them. Doesn't mean that the user won't end up wedged, e.g. if their connectivity is lossy or they're really unlucky.
2530 2011-06-01 17:03:06 <tcatm> BlueMatt: about what?
2531 2011-06-01 17:03:06 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: oh...nvm then
2532 2011-06-01 17:03:09 <gmaxwell> oh, yea or that.
2533 2011-06-01 17:03:25 <BlueMatt> tcatm: about merging something to fix the connect times before 0.3.22 final
2534 2011-06-01 17:03:32 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, you can do rm ~/.bitcoin/addr.dat&& ./bitcoin
2535 2011-06-01 17:03:37 <diki> never knew you can pause program execution in windows by just moving the slider in the console
2536 2011-06-01 17:03:41 <phantomcircuit> but that's even more of a hack than my patch
2537 2011-06-01 17:03:52 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yea, thats why I said nvm on that one
2538 2011-06-01 17:03:58 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: 0_o "And you want this to manage my money?" hehe thats a pretty bad user expirence.
2539 2011-06-01 17:04:01 <tcatm> not for 0.3.22. maybe 0.4.0
2540 2011-06-01 17:04:15 <BlueMatt> tcatm: it has become such a problem of late...
2541 2011-06-01 17:04:30 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: why? it's causing a huge bad impression on new users
2542 2011-06-01 17:04:42 <jrmithdobbs> like a "fuck this not fucking with this any more" type of impression
2543 2011-06-01 17:04:47 <jrmithdobbs> very detrimental
2544 2011-06-01 17:05:04 <tcatm> BlueMatt: what's the fix?
2545 2011-06-01 17:05:13 <gmaxwell> well, it erodes confidence in the stability of the network. "It doesn't start at all, and you say this is faster than the bank?"
2546 2011-06-01 17:05:18 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, http://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin
2547 2011-06-01 17:05:21 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, last 2 commits
2548 2011-06-01 17:05:25 <BlueMatt> tcatm: well I was going to say do dnsseed by default, but apparently that doesnt work
2549 2011-06-01 17:05:34 <phantomcircuit> i should mention that i haven't tested the windows code at all, but it's basically the same code as the linux version
2550 2011-06-01 17:05:39 <tcatm> what about cleaning up th seed node list and rely on that instead of IRC?
2551 2011-06-01 17:05:42 <BlueMatt> though Im against phantomcircuit's patch for 0.3.22, its way to late in release cycle to do something that major
2552 2011-06-01 17:05:49 Crshman has joined
2553 2011-06-01 17:05:49 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: dnsseed is important too, I think. But not sufficient.
2554 2011-06-01 17:05:54 Mononofu has joined
2555 2011-06-01 17:06:07 redMBA has joined
2556 2011-06-01 17:06:22 <BlueMatt> tcatm: because on the opening of the client the second time it fails
2557 2011-06-01 17:06:29 <jrmithdobbs> that major? it's commit that sets the socket non-blocking, tries with a sleep loop to see if it's connected, then switches back to blocking if it is and continues the normal execution as before and if it isn't it tries another node
2558 2011-06-01 17:06:31 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, the problem isn't the bootstrapping, it's the % of nodes that are connectible combined with the huge timeout for connect() calls on blocking sockets (about 5 minutes on linux with syncookies)
2559 2011-06-01 17:06:45 <BlueMatt> ...now I feel like Im against it, as phantomcircuit's patch is too large and there is nothing simple that can be done
2560 2011-06-01 17:07:09 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, i can cut it down to probably like 10 loc
2561 2011-06-01 17:07:13 <tcatm> ah so it's nodes on private IPs that are causing trouble?
2562 2011-06-01 17:07:25 <jrmithdobbs> or nodes with 8333 closed
2563 2011-06-01 17:07:25 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, no it's nodes behind nat without upnp
2564 2011-06-01 17:07:29 <BlueMatt> tcatm: just the % of nodes not accepting incoming and the fast rollover
2565 2011-06-01 17:07:31 <gmaxwell> tcatm: there are lots and lots of nodes on public IPs with 8333 firewalled off.
2566 2011-06-01 17:07:46 <gmaxwell> Basically every desktop user.
2567 2011-06-01 17:07:52 <BlueMatt> though Id like to discuss upnp on by default in 0.4.0, but that is a separate issue
2568 2011-06-01 17:08:19 <phantomcircuit> well whatever
2569 2011-06-01 17:08:21 <gmaxwell> er, well I guess I should revise that, depends on what you mean by on private ips.. Yes, nodes behind nat.
2570 2011-06-01 17:08:23 <phantomcircuit> im going to leave my binaries up
2571 2011-06-01 17:08:33 <phantomcircuit> and anybody who complains about connect problems will get a link to it
2572 2011-06-01 17:08:54 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: can you move that off to it's own branch instead of master?
2573 2011-06-01 17:09:04 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, yeah why not
2574 2011-06-01 17:09:14 <jrmithdobbs> i'll merge it into my build too ;P
2575 2011-06-01 17:09:20 <tcatm> can we get bitcoin to always use the seednodes, even when addr.dat is present?
2576 2011-06-01 17:09:38 <BlueMatt> tcatm: that sounds like a terrible idea...
2577 2011-06-01 17:09:43 <gmaxwell> There are perhaps other ways to address it. E.g. keep adding attempted connections until you get versions from 8 of them... but thats less ugly than simply timing out the connect.
2578 2011-06-01 17:09:45 <Grady2000> so do you have to close the client to backup your wallet?
2579 2011-06-01 17:09:53 <devrandom> I wonder what % of nodes are behind tor
2580 2011-06-01 17:10:01 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: more ugly you mean
2581 2011-06-01 17:10:07 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, p2p becomes well not
2582 2011-06-01 17:10:09 <gmaxwell> er. Yes! more ugly.
2583 2011-06-01 17:10:23 qwebirc21511 has joined
2584 2011-06-01 17:10:28 <phantomcircuit> Grady2000, no but it's definitely a good idea
2585 2011-06-01 17:10:41 <jrmithdobbs> it's a simple patch that fixes a long standing bug that is glaring to anyone whose ever written any kind of socket code
2586 2011-06-01 17:10:46 <BlueMatt> Grady2000: you can either use backupwallet from rpc or close the client
2587 2011-06-01 17:10:47 <phantomcircuit> devrandom, nodes behind tor send out null ip addrs
2588 2011-06-01 17:10:47 <jrmithdobbs> i don't understand the issue with just merging it
2589 2011-06-01 17:10:57 qwebirc21511 has left ()
2590 2011-06-01 17:11:06 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, ill simplify the code and get back to you one sec
2591 2011-06-01 17:11:22 <devrandom> phantomcircuit: and those are ignored by the current client?
2592 2011-06-01 17:11:28 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2593 2011-06-01 17:11:57 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom: connect() will outright fail if it tries
2594 2011-06-01 17:12:04 <jrmithdobbs> devrandom: instead of hang indefinitely
2595 2011-06-01 17:12:07 <jrmithdobbs> so not an issue
2596 2011-06-01 17:12:37 redMBA has joined
2597 2011-06-01 17:12:37 <devrandom> ok
2598 2011-06-01 17:13:25 <phantomcircuit> devrandom, what jrmithdobbs said
2599 2011-06-01 17:13:55 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2600 2011-06-01 17:13:59 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: btw your fix is much simpler than what i worked on and got bored of
2601 2011-06-01 17:14:08 <devrandom> still should advert a hidden service when possible... but that's another discussion
2602 2011-06-01 17:14:22 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: but then, i was attempting to switch the whole thing to actually use the non-blocking socket after connect, didn't think about just switching it back to blocking, lol
2603 2011-06-01 17:14:26 dukeleto has joined
2604 2011-06-01 17:14:36 <gmaxwell> devrandom: can't create a hidden service easily... need to be able to write to the tor config. Thats a mess.
2605 2011-06-01 17:15:00 <devrandom> can't you do it on the control channel?
2606 2011-06-01 17:15:03 <gmaxwell> devrandom: also, before even thatâ you ought to create a client that knows how to connect to a tor hidden service if it's told about one.
2607 2011-06-01 17:15:29 <devrandom> yeah
2608 2011-06-01 17:15:43 <gmaxwell> devrandom: see https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/1949 re: bringing up hidden services.
2609 2011-06-01 17:15:47 brunner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2610 2011-06-01 17:15:48 <devrandom> gmaxwell: actually, that's simple through the sox proxy
2611 2011-06-01 17:16:04 <devrandom> (connecting to a hidden service)
2612 2011-06-01 17:16:32 <devrandom> s/sox/SOCKS
2613 2011-06-01 17:16:55 <gmaxwell> devrandom: yes, but e.g. it should know to use that even if it's not using tor for everything.. and nodes need to be able to signal onion addresses.
2614 2011-06-01 17:17:08 <devrandom> right
2615 2011-06-01 17:17:27 sshack has quit (Quit: sshack)
2616 2011-06-01 17:18:56 <coptic> http://grooveshark.com/s/I+m+So+Tired/33zGR5?src=5
2617 2011-06-01 17:19:37 <devrandom> gmaxwell: thanks for the pointer
2618 2011-06-01 17:20:02 <tcatm> BlueMatt: so the problem are nodes in addr.dat that we can't connect to?
2619 2011-06-01 17:20:07 <phantomcircuit> is there a tor library that could be interfaced with?
2620 2011-06-01 17:20:14 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, more or less
2621 2011-06-01 17:20:21 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, but it's deeper than that
2622 2011-06-01 17:20:40 <BlueMatt> tcatm: essentially, but also in irc
2623 2011-06-01 17:20:48 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: not really
2624 2011-06-01 17:20:54 <gmaxwell> tcatm: well, also the fact that irc introduction will feed you tons and tons of nodes you can't connect to as well. But even if thats fixed with dnsseed the addr.dat issue remains.
2625 2011-06-01 17:20:56 <BlueMatt> well also poor connection attempts
2626 2011-06-01 17:21:24 <tcatm> can we just use seednodes first, and IRC only if that fails?
2627 2011-06-01 17:21:42 <BlueMatt> can...but again then its not really a p2p net is it?
2628 2011-06-01 17:21:43 DontMindMe has joined
2629 2011-06-01 17:21:43 Herodes has joined
2630 2011-06-01 17:21:49 <gmaxwell> And, even if that were fixed you'd still have e.g. momentary connection issues or random weird firewalling leaving clients hung up.
2631 2011-06-01 17:21:53 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, lol wxwidgets has been stalled on my build box with 8GB of ram for about 20 minutes now because it's using 12GB of virt mem linking
2632 2011-06-01 17:22:00 <tcatm> IRC isn't really p2p either
2633 2011-06-01 17:22:20 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: something is wrong with your machine then, it builds pretty quick in a vm with only 2g
2634 2011-06-01 17:22:22 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, it isn't a p2p bootstrap, but the actual connections are
2635 2011-06-01 17:22:24 <lfm> phantomcircuit: huh? why?
2636 2011-06-01 17:22:26 <BlueMatt> tcatm: but addr.dat is
2637 2011-06-01 17:22:47 <tcatm> so 1. try addr.dat, 2. seednodes, 3. IRC
2638 2011-06-01 17:22:47 <phantomcircuit> 16249 phantomc 30 10 9904m 7.4g 612 R 62 97.1 25:08.98 ld
2639 2011-06-01 17:22:50 <phantomcircuit> what
2640 2011-06-01 17:22:50 <phantomcircuit> the
2641 2011-06-01 17:22:51 <phantomcircuit> fuck
2642 2011-06-01 17:22:53 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: er, nothign about irc is p2p. It all goes via the irc server (okay, well ctcp, but bitcoin isn't using that)
2643 2011-06-01 17:23:00 <phantomcircuit> that's 7.4 GB resident
2644 2011-06-01 17:23:05 zertam has joined
2645 2011-06-01 17:23:08 <BlueMatt> tcatm: but addr.dat is broken
2646 2011-06-01 17:23:11 <phantomcircuit> sigh
2647 2011-06-01 17:23:15 <tcatm> BlueMatt: let's fix it :)
2648 2011-06-01 17:23:24 <BlueMatt> tcatm: way to big for 0.3.22
2649 2011-06-01 17:23:26 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, irc is a centralized mechanism, but it results in a decentralized p2p overlay
2650 2011-06-01 17:23:33 <lfm> gmaxwell: the server to server protocol is p2p isnt it?
2651 2011-06-01 17:23:36 <BlueMatt> tcatm: but the fix for that is essentially phantomcircuit's
2652 2011-06-01 17:23:43 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, so the irc part itself isn't but it results in a true p2p bitcoin protocol
2653 2011-06-01 17:23:55 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: so does addr.dat+seednodes.
2654 2011-06-01 17:24:02 <ZOP> The ugly fact is you have to bootstrap intot he network *somehow*
2655 2011-06-01 17:24:16 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: can you summarize your patch? (it's long and doesn't have comments)
2656 2011-06-01 17:24:16 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: the fix is to timeout on bad connect() attempts similar to phantomcircuit's patch
2657 2011-06-01 17:24:22 <ZOP> the clients definitely need to be smarter about knowing what nodes are "garbage" or unconnectable.
2658 2011-06-01 17:24:25 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, only if you quickly disconnect from the seednodes
2659 2011-06-01 17:24:29 <gmaxwell> (or better addr.dat + dnsseed, since seednodes get stale)
2660 2011-06-01 17:24:38 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, my patch is literally 50 loc
2661 2011-06-01 17:24:44 <ZOP> mark them as such, and then don't try to connect to them, especialyl if they havent' been heard from.
2662 2011-06-01 17:24:49 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: okay we're just agreeing here I think.
2663 2011-06-01 17:24:50 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: which is much too long for this late in 0.3.22
2664 2011-06-01 17:24:53 <phantomcircuit> one sec i just simplified the hell out of it, but am waiting for a build
2665 2011-06-01 17:24:57 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, yes
2666 2011-06-01 17:24:58 qwebirc28860 has joined
2667 2011-06-01 17:25:07 <tcatm> jrmithdobbs, BlueMatt: I'm thinking about avoiding adding non-public nodes to addr.dat
2668 2011-06-01 17:25:07 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: it sets the socket non-blocking when connecting, then checks errno to see if it connected or if connection is in progress, if it's connected it sets it blocking and continues as normal, if it's in progress it goes into a sleep loop waiting for it to connect and times out after the given time
2669 2011-06-01 17:25:09 <ZOP> but BlueMatt is certainly right, thats all major behavior changes :)
2670 2011-06-01 17:25:15 <lfm> gmaxwell: almost any source of node addresses gets stale on one time scale or another
2671 2011-06-01 17:25:40 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: if it times out it starts over with next connect attempt
2672 2011-06-01 17:25:55 <gmaxwell> lfm: indeed. But there is a few orders of magnitude between dnsseed and baked in the software. :)
2673 2011-06-01 17:25:57 <jrmithdobbs> (as was initially intended, except values for most systems timeout for connect() were not taken into account)
2674 2011-06-01 17:26:05 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, i massively simplified it just waiting for my netbook to build it ;)
2675 2011-06-01 17:26:07 <BlueMatt> tcatm: problem is you have to check to see if they accept conn. first...or you could not relay nodes which dont accept conn...but then you have the problem of getting enough nodes spread throughout the net which might cause islands of bitcoin
2676 2011-06-01 17:26:25 <lfm> ya, if it has NEVER connected it shouldnt be in addr.dat it seems
2677 2011-06-01 17:26:33 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, no i wouldn't add this to an rc, it's clearly a feature
2678 2011-06-01 17:26:54 <gmaxwell> lfm: yea, but there is a lot of churn (users pissed that their nodes never synced up? heh)
2679 2011-06-01 17:26:55 <phantomcircuit> lfm, that's a bad idea, you'll never end up finding new nodes...
2680 2011-06-01 17:26:57 <BlueMatt> anyway, something that needs to go in 0.4.0 right away
2681 2011-06-01 17:27:09 <BlueMatt> lfm: as I pointed out, might cause bitcoin islands
2682 2011-06-01 17:27:11 <lfm> gmaxwell: ya use the irc for that
2683 2011-06-01 17:27:21 <BlueMatt> (we do only use 8 outgoing connections)
2684 2011-06-01 17:27:31 <lfm> phantomcircuit: find new nodes in irc
2685 2011-06-01 17:27:35 <jrmithdobbs> i don't see how the connect() timeout shouldn't go into 3.22 right away ... the addr.dat not storing bad nodes definitely needs to be worked on
2686 2011-06-01 17:27:39 <jrmithdobbs> but this is costing users
2687 2011-06-01 17:27:40 <gmaxwell> lfm: IRC is kinda dysfunctional because you'll pull 8 nodes from it and all 8 will be not-listening and then you'll be stuck.
2688 2011-06-01 17:27:48 <ZOP> I added three bitcoind's on good permanent connections on servers of my own just to help out a bit
2689 2011-06-01 17:27:50 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: can the large #ifndef / #else / #endif be avoided? Is windows really that different?
2690 2011-06-01 17:28:04 <qwebirc28860> hello, my english isn't very good, soory. I am from germany....i have a question. how i can find my "hash rate"?
2691 2011-06-01 17:28:14 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: it really is
2692 2011-06-01 17:28:16 <ZOP> they're all at major datacenters in the US (though I might have one coming up in Japan soon)
2693 2011-06-01 17:28:18 <BlueMatt> well in 0.4.0 Id like to make dnsseed default and irc off by default (or maybe irc off is a bit too much, but you get the point)
2694 2011-06-01 17:28:25 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: it doesn't use errno so completely different logic for testing for success
2695 2011-06-01 17:28:39 <BlueMatt> as dnsseed can easily send you a list of non-static nodes
2696 2011-06-01 17:28:46 <lfm> gmaxwell: ok so half and half, half or your 8 from irc and half from seed and only previous connects to arrd.dat
2697 2011-06-01 17:28:48 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, lol bitcoin already has #define WSAGetLastError errno
2698 2011-06-01 17:28:52 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, horrible hacks
2699 2011-06-01 17:28:53 <BlueMatt> (like dig @ns1.bluematt.me dnsseed.bitcoin.bit does now)
2700 2011-06-01 17:29:08 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: ewww
2701 2011-06-01 17:29:14 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I think IRC off is too much. A single seeding method might encourage people to block it.
2702 2011-06-01 17:29:20 <phantomcircuit> im abusing that to simplify the code though so
2703 2011-06-01 17:29:23 <phantomcircuit> one second
2704 2011-06-01 17:29:30 <jrmithdobbs> haha right
2705 2011-06-01 17:29:33 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: there is always -irc and static nodes
2706 2011-06-01 17:29:37 <BlueMatt> enable manually that is
2707 2011-06-01 17:29:46 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: if someone can block dnsseed they can as easily block irc
2708 2011-06-01 17:30:08 <tcatm> I'd like to get rid of IRC seeding.
2709 2011-06-01 17:30:15 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: sure but if I can make a bunch of users do complicated technical things to make bitcoin work, i've kept 90% of them from using it. ::shrugs::
2710 2011-06-01 17:30:28 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i mean, my gui clients never do anything but -nolisten -connect= to my well connected node, but that's not a solution for the flood of people in #bitcoin that can't get the blockchain to try out bitcoin for the first time ;P
2711 2011-06-01 17:30:41 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, yes but those are of the ones that get on irc to ask, that's obviously the smarter of users
2712 2011-06-01 17:30:48 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: though no answer to that point. As someone who has worked for people who wanted to filter network access I know that being able to say "no it will just X" was very effective for me.
2713 2011-06-01 17:30:54 <lfm> so half and half?
2714 2011-06-01 17:31:29 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: agreed, irc seeding is a horrible kludge imho
2715 2011-06-01 17:31:42 <phantomcircuit> bah
2716 2011-06-01 17:31:48 <gmaxwell> though yea. the irc connection makes people think it's a botnet.
2717 2011-06-01 17:31:49 <phantomcircuit> who wants to find me a desktop pc in poland?
2718 2011-06-01 17:32:07 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: tbqh, i have no problem with corps and such blocking the dns zone for bitcoin seed either
2719 2011-06-01 17:32:08 <phantomcircuit> yeah irc is banned on most shared networks
2720 2011-06-01 17:32:12 <lfm> phantomcircuit: are they that rare?
2721 2011-06-01 17:32:14 <jrmithdobbs> their resources they can choose what to block ;P
2722 2011-06-01 17:32:21 <phantomcircuit> lfm, i dont speak polish rofl
2723 2011-06-01 17:32:35 <lfm> phantomcircuit: oic
2724 2011-06-01 17:32:52 <gmaxwell> While visiting a client once, xchat left running on my system tried to connect to freenode. 20 minutes later I had one of their network security people asking if I tried to connect to IRC. :)
2725 2011-06-01 17:32:55 Guest19021 is now known as Netsniper
2726 2011-06-01 17:33:18 <lfm> gmaxwell: well thats why we have -noirc
2727 2011-06-01 17:33:25 <BlueMatt> god as I run this script, it just keeps getting more and more nodes to connect to, the total number of nodes which have not been checked yet just keeps going up...
2728 2011-06-01 17:33:27 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: Well, it deepends. e.g. some university doing it for dumb reasons isn't the same as a business blocking it on their own computer.
2729 2011-06-01 17:33:33 <tcatm> what's the best way to reproduce the problem?
2730 2011-06-01 17:33:41 <gmaxwell> lfm: yea, I was just bringing that up to common on the general not greatness of irc.
2731 2011-06-01 17:33:46 <lfm> tcatm: just start a new node
2732 2011-06-01 17:33:47 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: sure but those should be addressed on a case by case basis
2733 2011-06-01 17:33:59 <gmaxwell> start a new node behind nat
2734 2011-06-01 17:34:00 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: in general with-non-public-funded institutions i'm ok with that though
2735 2011-06-01 17:34:04 <gmaxwell> (so that it can't listen)
2736 2011-06-01 17:34:11 <gmaxwell> If your node listens it tends to be much less bad.
2737 2011-06-01 17:34:28 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, a well connected node gets something approaching 20k nodes, of which 50% are complete bullshit and 45% aren't connectable
2738 2011-06-01 17:34:31 <gmaxwell> (because eventually some other node will connect to itâ though it seems most of that time that node will be also completely dumb)
2739 2011-06-01 17:34:36 <lfm> gmaxwell: but any new node can have trouble finding connects
2740 2011-06-01 17:34:54 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: bluematt's math says something like only 10% in irc are connectable i think he said
2741 2011-06-01 17:34:57 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: lol
2742 2011-06-01 17:34:58 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yep
2743 2011-06-01 17:35:01 <lfm> gmaxwell: oic you will get incomming connects before you get outgoin?
2744 2011-06-01 17:35:04 <BlueMatt> 15%, but yea
2745 2011-06-01 17:35:16 <BlueMatt> so far its averaging somewhere between 13 and 15% are bad
2746 2011-06-01 17:35:17 <gmaxwell> lfm: I _think_ thats what I observed.
2747 2011-06-01 17:35:21 <BlueMatt> sorry good
2748 2011-06-01 17:35:33 erle- has joined
2749 2011-06-01 17:35:37 <tcatm> okay, that's really a problem. My new node doesn't seem to find any peers.
2750 2011-06-01 17:35:49 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: and that number is a bit artifically high because it includes people who setup forwarding only after it didn't work.
2751 2011-06-01 17:35:50 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: ya, that's the problem this addresses
2752 2011-06-01 17:35:53 <BlueMatt> currently 14.6% of nodes tried are connectible
2753 2011-06-01 17:35:59 <gmaxwell> tcatm: Welcome to the club!
2754 2011-06-01 17:36:00 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, well and worse if you ask for a list of peers from other peers, almost all of the ones you get no longer exist
2755 2011-06-01 17:36:06 <lfm> tcatm: just seems timeouts are too long
2756 2011-06-01 17:36:14 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: no, that is exclusively from peer exchange
2757 2011-06-01 17:36:19 <BlueMatt> didnt pull anything from irc
2758 2011-06-01 17:36:27 <gmaxwell> It's not just timeouts too long... it's that it's also being given mostly bad data.
2759 2011-06-01 17:36:40 <gmaxwell> Dnsseed would still help a lot, because the data will be good.
2760 2011-06-01 17:37:03 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, yes im aware, but there are a bunch of peers being exchanged that haven't existed in months
2761 2011-06-01 17:37:15 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, they're shadows running through the network
2762 2011-06-01 17:37:15 <phantomcircuit> lol
2763 2011-06-01 17:37:35 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: no my 15% figure includes those is my point
2764 2011-06-01 17:37:43 <gmaxwell> it should probably not exchange any peer it hasn't been connected to in N hours.
2765 2011-06-01 17:37:47 <phantomcircuit> includes the peer exchange peers?
2766 2011-06-01 17:37:49 <BlueMatt> the 15% is all pulled from peer echange
2767 2011-06-01 17:37:53 <phantomcircuit> oh
2768 2011-06-01 17:37:55 <phantomcircuit> interesting
2769 2011-06-01 17:37:56 <BlueMatt> none from irc
2770 2011-06-01 17:37:58 <lfm> so doesnt the time since last connect in addr.dat help reduce inactive nodes?
2771 2011-06-01 17:38:02 <pippin> with bitcoin being in a seeming eternal september mode already with the huge influx,. the new legitimate users are effectively DOSing it (:
2772 2011-06-01 17:38:05 <phantomcircuit> that means the peer exchange works much better than irc
2773 2011-06-01 17:38:08 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: in theory it's supposed to
2774 2011-06-01 17:38:11 <BlueMatt> though its still tested less than half
2775 2011-06-01 17:38:13 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: in practice it doesn't seem to
2776 2011-06-01 17:38:25 <BlueMatt> lfm: it does...but only a tiny bit
2777 2011-06-01 17:38:30 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: addr.dat is pretty broken it seems
2778 2011-06-01 17:38:30 <gmaxwell> And _even_ if you get connected, you _will_ end up in islands where no node has any blocks.
2779 2011-06-01 17:38:43 <gmaxwell> Or where only one node in a cluster is connected to a node with blocks.
2780 2011-06-01 17:38:47 <lfm> so should there be a "too old" age for time since last connect to drop inactive nodes from addr.dat?
2781 2011-06-01 17:38:50 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: it doesn't look like anything actually ever gets pruned from the behaviour i've observed
2782 2011-06-01 17:38:51 <gmaxwell> And then it takes 20 hours to sync up.
2783 2011-06-01 17:39:01 <BlueMatt> lfm: probably
2784 2011-06-01 17:39:26 <gmaxwell> lfm: well, you don't want to lose your memory just because you've been off for a week, enh?
2785 2011-06-01 17:39:32 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, well im going to modify my python client to do nothing but regurgitate blocks and transactions
2786 2011-06-01 17:39:36 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: gmaxwell brings us back to my devil's advocate'ing earlier
2787 2011-06-01 17:39:38 <lfm> gmaxwell: how bout a month?
2788 2011-06-01 17:39:54 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I disagree
2789 2011-06-01 17:40:06 <phantomcircuit> fcntl(hSocket, F_SETFL, flags & !O_NONBLOCK);
2790 2011-06-01 17:40:07 <BlueMatt> if you have been down for a week, there is no point trying to reconnect to that node again
2791 2011-06-01 17:40:08 <phantomcircuit> lol
2792 2011-06-01 17:40:10 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: should we maybe, before we have what looks to be a semi-complete chain, bump max outbound connections to 32 or so? in addition to the connect() timeout
2793 2011-06-01 17:40:13 <phantomcircuit> flags & !O_NONBLOCK
2794 2011-06-01 17:40:14 <lfm> gmaxwell: if theyre off that long they have to start over.
2795 2011-06-01 17:40:17 <phantomcircuit> i totally forgot i did that
2796 2011-06-01 17:40:18 <BlueMatt> obviously when that node connects again, it will be readded
2797 2011-06-01 17:40:19 <phantomcircuit> that's silly
2798 2011-06-01 17:40:22 <jrmithdobbs> that should help prevent islands
2799 2011-06-01 17:40:36 cboy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2800 2011-06-01 17:40:50 <pippin> even when having used -addnode when starting bitcoin, it doesnt take that known to be good node into account when restarting
2801 2011-06-01 17:41:00 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: that would aggravate the problem even more...now not only are nodes not accepting connections, but nodes are now full and rejecting new ones
2802 2011-06-01 17:41:00 <tcatm> the timeout patch doesn't help here
2803 2011-06-01 17:41:01 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, i covered the way to prevent islands in a forum post a while ago, you keep half hte connections stable and set the other half to rapidly switch peers, say every minute
2804 2011-06-01 17:41:24 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: well when islands become a problem we can fix them, but until then, why?
2805 2011-06-01 17:41:27 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: some machines could get overloaded with too many connects. (modems anyone?)
2806 2011-06-01 17:41:31 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: assuming connect() timeout is in place that shouldn't be an issue so long as the limit is only bumped during initial getblocks
2807 2011-06-01 17:41:33 <gmaxwell> lfm: it would make the seeding process a better attack vector if nodes were more prone to forget, but a month is probably safe.. it's also probably too long to prevent a lot of nodecruft.
2808 2011-06-01 17:42:00 <gmaxwell> lfm: I think you shouldn't try to connect to nodes a month old, and you shouldn't tell peers about nodes you haven't connected to within 24 or 48 hours. or something like that.
2809 2011-06-01 17:42:18 samfisher has joined
2810 2011-06-01 17:42:44 <lfm> gmaxwell: seems about right to me too
2811 2011-06-01 17:42:46 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: it currently can form islands. I don't have an islanded node now, but I had one that was islanded for 20 hours or so.
2812 2011-06-01 17:43:08 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: problem is, you have to forward nodes you have never tried, as otherwise you *could* get islanding becoming a problem
2813 2011-06-01 17:43:20 <samfisher> question: if you have 10 btc in a wallet, and it get stolen, the thief spends the coins and i open up bitcoin, will i still see them ot they're gonna disappear upon block update?
2814 2011-06-01 17:43:53 <BlueMatt> samfisher: you would see them as spent in your wallet once they get put in a block or forwarded on the net while you are on
2815 2011-06-01 17:43:57 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, because of artificially created islands, which would be trivial to do right now
2816 2011-06-01 17:44:00 <pwrcycle> what would happen if i pointed my pushpool to slush/deepbit?
2817 2011-06-01 17:44:10 <pwrcycle> would it hash properly??
2818 2011-06-01 17:44:17 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: explain how?
2819 2011-06-01 17:44:17 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: right sorry I should have been more clear. "Forget addr.dat nodes after a month" but still try new nodes, of course.
2820 2011-06-01 17:44:23 <tcatm> What about just trying every node before forwarding their IPs?
2821 2011-06-01 17:44:34 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, id rather no in the main channel since the attack is so trivial
2822 2011-06-01 17:44:35 <BlueMatt> tcatm: because that is huge load
2823 2011-06-01 17:44:39 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, pm?
2824 2011-06-01 17:44:43 <gmaxwell> hm.
2825 2011-06-01 17:44:49 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: uh...ok if you want
2826 2011-06-01 17:45:04 <lfm> pwrcycle: you might be able to make it work but it doesnt seem wise
2827 2011-06-01 17:45:12 <tcatm> BlueMatt: really? Basically, we'd only have to try nodes that connect to us
2828 2011-06-01 17:45:13 <gmaxwell> Without trying them it's a cute dos vector.. no? I can spin up a node that just claims every IP address was a peer.
2829 2011-06-01 17:45:50 <BlueMatt> tcatm: huh? so you are saying forward only nodes which we have connected to, never anything else
2830 2011-06-01 17:46:01 <BlueMatt> that would mean the number of potential nodes forwarded drops like a rock
2831 2011-06-01 17:46:05 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: nodes that have connected to us or that we have connected to
2832 2011-06-01 17:46:12 <jrmithdobbs> and seen within the last X hours
2833 2011-06-01 17:46:19 <jrmithdobbs> it's how gnutella does it
2834 2011-06-01 17:46:20 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: no, because you need to connect to them to see if they are listening or not
2835 2011-06-01 17:46:23 <lfm> bluematt there is still the irc nodes for new nodes
2836 2011-06-01 17:46:27 <tcatm> BlueMatt: and trust every IP you get from other peers (which were verified by other nodes)
2837 2011-06-01 17:46:28 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ahh
2838 2011-06-01 17:46:30 <jrmithdobbs> good point
2839 2011-06-01 17:46:42 cboy has joined
2840 2011-06-01 17:46:43 qwebirc28860 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2841 2011-06-01 17:46:49 <tcatm> could take some time until most nodes' addr.dat is "clean", though
2842 2011-06-01 17:46:55 <gmaxwell> tcatm: if you trust what happens if I just make my node claim every single IP on the internet?
2843 2011-06-01 17:46:57 <samfisher> bitcoind shows "connections" : 0, after 4 minutes
2844 2011-06-01 17:46:57 <jrmithdobbs> ya i see what you're saying
2845 2011-06-01 17:47:10 <lfm> bluematt at least dont forward nodes that none has ever been able to connect to
2846 2011-06-01 17:47:17 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: we're arguing about the cause of that right now, lol
2847 2011-06-01 17:47:23 <tcatm> gmaxwell: that could already cause problems now :)
2848 2011-06-01 17:47:25 <gmaxwell> But I agree that at least testing _once_ is a good idea.
2849 2011-06-01 17:47:33 <gmaxwell> And thats strictly superior to now.
2850 2011-06-01 17:47:40 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: bitcoin -addnode=69.41.162.72
2851 2011-06-01 17:47:45 <gmaxwell> But something should be done about that dos attack.
2852 2011-06-01 17:47:45 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: should fix you up
2853 2011-06-01 17:48:12 <samfisher> jrmithdobbs: i sent payment to a guy and he didn't received it yet
2854 2011-06-01 17:48:20 <samfisher> but my account was empited
2855 2011-06-01 17:48:23 <samfisher> emptied
2856 2011-06-01 17:48:29 <gmaxwell> I guess the most obvious solution to the dos attack is to trust, but only take a few nodes from each source IP that gives you some.
2857 2011-06-01 17:48:31 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: start bitcoin like i just said, you'll get caught up
2858 2011-06-01 17:48:45 <lfm> samfisher: you cant tell till you have some good connections
2859 2011-06-01 17:49:02 m4rtin has joined
2860 2011-06-01 17:49:10 <pippin> jrmithdobbs: if the transaction was made without active connections, will it be reinjected into the network?
2861 2011-06-01 17:49:21 <jrmithdobbs> pippin: after a ~30 min retry timeout, yes
2862 2011-06-01 17:49:30 <jrmithdobbs> pippin: assuming he can get an active connection onto the net
2863 2011-06-01 17:49:39 <lfm> samfisher: can -addnode=75.158.131.108 too
2864 2011-06-01 17:49:40 <jrmithdobbs> which he can do with that -addnode=69.41.162.72
2865 2011-06-01 17:50:42 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
2866 2011-06-01 17:50:50 <BlueMatt> lfm tcatm Im just not sure here, if you only forward nodes which you have connected to you could have issues down the line as you are only forwarding a tiny subset of nodes...if you forward nodes you have connected to and nodes you get from other peers, you will forward all nodes as old nodes will send you all kinds of crap
2867 2011-06-01 17:50:51 <phantomcircuit> this is what im talking about
2868 2011-06-01 17:51:42 <tcatm> BlueMatt: IIRC there's lastseen field so once everyone has upgraded those non-public nodes will be removed from addr.dat
2869 2011-06-01 17:51:49 <lfm> bluematt not just your own "last connect" but can use other people's "last connect" also. but if no one has ever connected, it prolly should not be distributed
2870 2011-06-01 17:52:05 AStove has joined
2871 2011-06-01 17:52:14 <BlueMatt> tcatm: is last seen last time it was sent to you, or last time it was connected to?
2872 2011-06-01 17:52:32 redMBA has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2873 2011-06-01 17:52:35 <tcatm> BlueMatt: I don't know. I hope it's last time it was connected to.
2874 2011-06-01 17:52:44 <lfm> I hope its last time someone connected to it
2875 2011-06-01 17:52:58 <tcatm> Else, we could change the protocol to transmit little more information about IPs
2876 2011-06-01 17:53:04 <BlueMatt> maybe it is
2877 2011-06-01 17:53:23 <samfisher> what do you think about namecoins?
2878 2011-06-01 17:53:28 <tcatm> With the current code we'd eventually end up with every valid IPv4 in addr.dat...
2879 2011-06-01 17:53:30 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: retarded
2880 2011-06-01 17:53:34 <samfisher> why
2881 2011-06-01 17:53:35 <lfm> it may falsely count an irc announce as "seen"
2882 2011-06-01 17:53:41 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: solves a non-existant problem
2883 2011-06-01 17:53:54 <tcatm> Btw, what about using network broadcasts to discover nearby nodes? Does IPv6 support that over the internet?
2884 2011-06-01 17:54:02 <BlueMatt> tcatm: hm, maybe to be a dick Ill start fowarding around all valid ips...
2885 2011-06-01 17:54:10 X-Scale has joined
2886 2011-06-01 17:54:14 <BlueMatt> tcatm: not well enough to use it...
2887 2011-06-01 17:54:21 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: we don't really know since no decent isps have a good enough implementation to use it
2888 2011-06-01 17:54:23 * jgarzik scrolls back
2889 2011-06-01 17:54:25 <gmaxwell> You can multicast, but it's not guaranteed to go far.
2890 2011-06-01 17:54:31 <jgarzik> do we not prune addr.dat?
2891 2011-06-01 17:54:33 <jgarzik> we should
2892 2011-06-01 17:54:35 <gmaxwell> Connecting to hosts on the local lan, however ... would be a good thing.
2893 2011-06-01 17:54:39 <BlueMatt> you could theoretically put all bitcoin nodes in an ip multicast group but that is not fully implemented well...
2894 2011-06-01 17:54:48 <samfisher> jrmithdobbs: and what if 1 nmc will be like.. 2-3 usd by the end of the year?
2895 2011-06-01 17:54:49 <lfm> bluematt yup just put 4 biilion ip addresses in the address.dat
2896 2011-06-01 17:55:08 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: still doesn't address the fundamental problem that it's solving a non-existant problem
2897 2011-06-01 17:55:13 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin/tree/nonblockingconnect
2898 2011-06-01 17:55:18 <phantomcircuit> there patch is massively simplified
2899 2011-06-01 17:55:30 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: and that the people implementing don't seem to understand how dns actually works on the internet in the first place
2900 2011-06-01 17:55:36 <gmaxwell> mulicast/subnet broadcast udp discovery would be really nice, but that should be super low priority.
2901 2011-06-01 17:55:44 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2902 2011-06-01 17:55:52 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2903 2011-06-01 17:55:55 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: definitely lower priority than say, enabling ipv6 ;P
2904 2011-06-01 17:56:05 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: sometime makes me wonder if anyone understands dns
2905 2011-06-01 17:56:09 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: Well subnet discovery would actually be usable. But yea...
2906 2011-06-01 17:56:13 <samfisher> jrmithdobbs: i just bought some namecoins. with btc
2907 2011-06-01 17:56:20 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: i'm sorry
2908 2011-06-01 17:56:26 <gmaxwell> Multicast is more of a science-project.
2909 2011-06-01 17:56:28 <samfisher> jrmithdobbs: aaah
2910 2011-06-01 17:56:43 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: very much so
2911 2011-06-01 17:56:47 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2912 2011-06-01 17:56:58 <BlueMatt> even on ipv6 where it is part of spec
2913 2011-06-01 17:57:07 <BlueMatt> original spec that is
2914 2011-06-01 17:57:09 <lfm> like I dont think even netflix uses multicast
2915 2011-06-01 17:57:15 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: what problem do you think they're trying to solve that you don't think is really a problem?
2916 2011-06-01 17:57:17 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, dirty little secret, multicast works on most corporate WANs
2917 2011-06-01 17:57:22 <gmaxwell> lfm: it's only basically good with a single network now..
2918 2011-06-01 17:57:28 <BlueMatt> no, netflix cant...they have to have all kinds of crazy crypto for the media companies
2919 2011-06-01 17:57:33 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: my honest thoughts are that it's a nifty idea but doesn't really address a real problem, implementation is shit, and it's designed by people that don't understand the intracies of dns on the internet and why we've been failing to completely decenttralize the root for 30 years
2920 2011-06-01 17:57:35 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: works _on_ but only within usually. :)
2921 2011-06-01 17:57:40 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, yes
2922 2011-06-01 17:57:52 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i use it to broadcast tv with vlc
2923 2011-06-01 17:57:54 <m4rtin> the only people that i know that are bff with multicast is u-verse
2924 2011-06-01 17:57:54 <phantomcircuit> lulz ensue
2925 2011-06-01 17:58:05 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: tell me the problem you think they're trying to solve and i'll tell you why it's not one.
2926 2011-06-01 17:58:08 * tcatm wonders if upnp by default could fix the problem for 0.3.22
2927 2011-06-01 17:58:09 <gmaxwell> regardless, not relevant for our issues now.
2928 2011-06-01 17:58:15 <samfisher> and I was thinking of accepting namecoins in my shop. bitcoins orders are low there and they seemed receptive
2929 2011-06-01 17:58:32 <MasterChief> has a question
2930 2011-06-01 17:58:40 <BlueMatt> theoretically even an isp which doesnt enable multicast on their servers can get multicast working if its routed properly...it just means upstream servers have to split the broadcast
2931 2011-06-01 17:58:43 <gmaxwell> tcatm: I don't think so, because there are still a lot of home networks where upnp does nothing. I don't know what percentage but its ..some.
2932 2011-06-01 17:58:50 <BlueMatt> tcatm: I think it could help a ton
2933 2011-06-01 17:58:57 <gmaxwell> tcatm: I don't think any single thing is sufficient.
2934 2011-06-01 17:59:03 <MasterChief> could the blockchain be stored in a encrypted distributed filesystem instead of replicated in full on each node
2935 2011-06-01 17:59:07 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: the majority of routers have upnp on by default
2936 2011-06-01 17:59:10 <BlueMatt> *home
2937 2011-06-01 17:59:13 <tcatm> gmaxwell: true, but it's a start
2938 2011-06-01 17:59:15 <phantomcircuit> http://bitcoinconsultancy.com/nonblocking.patch
2939 2011-06-01 17:59:16 <phantomcircuit> there
2940 2011-06-01 17:59:17 <gmaxwell> Not getting hung up on connect is criticial. Getting better node data is criticial. Having more working nodes is criticial.
2941 2011-06-01 17:59:19 <phantomcircuit> a simple patch
2942 2011-06-01 17:59:23 <lfm> tcatm still a lot of stale nodes floating around in addr.dat and such
2943 2011-06-01 17:59:24 <phantomcircuit> uses all of the existing hacks
2944 2011-06-01 17:59:37 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yea I would guess perhaps 20-30% don't. Something like that.
2945 2011-06-01 18:00:00 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yep and even if it only adds another 10% nodes...thats a big help
2946 2011-06-01 18:00:21 <gmaxwell> Especially a big help if 8 stale nodes aren't enough to make you completely dead.
2947 2011-06-01 18:00:28 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: i think they're trying to take the "central authority" out of the equation of DNS
2948 2011-06-01 18:00:42 agent-x has left ()
2949 2011-06-01 18:01:04 <samfisher> how do i verify this transaction? b03c05e38f0c1f256397efee48248cb6f447ed5d5f050a3d7110452c113ad76e
2950 2011-06-01 18:01:06 <lfm> x6763: yes, thats the point, they have been trying for 30 years
2951 2011-06-01 18:01:22 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: and how do you think they accomplish this?
2952 2011-06-01 18:01:41 <phantomcircuit> samfisher, that transaction hasn't made it to the network yet, afaict
2953 2011-06-01 18:01:41 <lfm> samfisher: check the node explorer
2954 2011-06-01 18:01:44 dukeleto has joined
2955 2011-06-01 18:01:52 <gmaxwell> So there are really four things which are eventually hard requirements: Not hanging up on connect, pruning addr.dat, DNSseed, and UPNP. I don't think the situation will be _good_ until all are done. But just doing the first and any one of the others would be a big help.
2956 2011-06-01 18:01:59 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: the root is pretty well decentralized at this point with the various country-based registrars and the actual physical root servers being controlled by a variety of disparate entities
2957 2011-06-01 18:02:00 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: no, now you're supposed to explain why having a central authority is not a problem
2958 2011-06-01 18:02:01 <samfisher> phantomcircuit: but my btc were take from my wallet
2959 2011-06-01 18:02:10 <Theo`> BlueMatt: from my experience UPnP is off by factory defaults on most routers
2960 2011-06-01 18:02:13 <phantomcircuit> samfisher, windows/linux?
2961 2011-06-01 18:02:17 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: right, so that's why domain names can be confiscated...
2962 2011-06-01 18:02:19 <Theo`> BlueMatt: you have to rely on users turning it on manually
2963 2011-06-01 18:02:23 <lfm> samfisher: you dont know what happened really till you connect
2964 2011-06-01 18:02:23 stuhood has joined
2965 2011-06-01 18:02:25 <samfisher> phantomcircuit: linux
2966 2011-06-01 18:02:33 <gmaxwell> Theo`: doesn't help that it's been a nasty source of security problems.
2967 2011-06-01 18:02:37 <jgarzik> If people truly feel there is an issue that should delay 0.3.22 release, you should post on the forums (and post a link to your thread in the 0.3.22 release candidate thread)
2968 2011-06-01 18:02:37 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: namecoin does nothing to stop that
2969 2011-06-01 18:02:42 <jgarzik> ...
2970 2011-06-01 18:02:47 <samfisher> connections" : 1,
2971 2011-06-01 18:02:49 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: since, last i looked, they just proxied to normal dns implementations
2972 2011-06-01 18:02:50 <tcatm> I just ran dbdump.py --address on my addr.dat. Oldest node is from 18 May 2011
2973 2011-06-01 18:02:52 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: does nothing to stop domain name confiscation?
2974 2011-06-01 18:03:05 stuhood has left ()
2975 2011-06-01 18:03:07 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: you may be right about their implementation...i think their implementation sucks, too
2976 2011-06-01 18:03:10 <jgarzik> P2P node hunting, address and peer selection, has always sucked
2977 2011-06-01 18:03:13 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: which means the people running the resolvers can be subpoened to stop resolving a domain which essentially seizes it
2978 2011-06-01 18:03:17 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Im just not sure...it has become such a problem of late but it is also a big fix...
2979 2011-06-01 18:03:22 <jgarzik> though the problem is certainly worse with a larger influx of people
2980 2011-06-01 18:03:31 <lfm> tcatm: how many nodes?
2981 2011-06-01 18:03:34 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: so, next problem they're solving
2982 2011-06-01 18:03:38 <tcatm> I'd say release 0.3.22 and work a fix for 0.4.0
2983 2011-06-01 18:03:43 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: some I just brought up 8 nodes, and they've been sitting for a couple minutes now with no connections.
2984 2011-06-01 18:03:46 <jgarzik> tcatm: me^2
2985 2011-06-01 18:03:48 jivvz has joined
2986 2011-06-01 18:03:53 <BlueMatt> yea I tend to be leaning towards what tcatm says
2987 2011-06-01 18:03:58 <phantomcircuit> samfisher, that's your problem, http://bitcoinconsultancy.com/bitcoin-linux.zip will work better
2988 2011-06-01 18:04:05 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: if they go the route of (lololol) actually trying to get software to use a different resolver library that actually pulls records out of the blockchain
2989 2011-06-01 18:04:06 <gmaxwell> 8/8 failure... from a new users perspective the software simply doesn't work
2990 2011-06-01 18:04:32 <phantomcircuit> samfisher, alternatively you can stop bitcoin and restart it as ./bitcoin -connect=178.79.147.99
2991 2011-06-01 18:04:34 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: well that has a whole host of issues, the least of which being that require resolvers to have a multi-hundred-megabyte blockchain to sort through ...
2992 2011-06-01 18:04:35 <jgarzik> <shrug> magically manages to work here consistently
2993 2011-06-01 18:04:47 <jgarzik> I restart all the time, with and without fresh data files
2994 2011-06-01 18:04:51 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: it tends to if you have your ports forwarded
2995 2011-06-01 18:04:52 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: are your nodes listening?
2996 2011-06-01 18:04:56 <tcatm> We could add information how to use -addnode=$some_big_seed_nodes in the forum post for 0.3.22..
2997 2011-06-01 18:04:57 <jgarzik> yes
2998 2011-06-01 18:05:03 <jrmithdobbs> samfisher: use -addnode= not -connect= or you'll never connect to more than one peer
2999 2011-06-01 18:05:05 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: yes, storing the records in the block chain is also probably a pretty poor design choice
3000 2011-06-01 18:05:10 <gmaxwell> I'm specifically talking about j-random-desktop case which doesn't have forwarded ports.
3001 2011-06-01 18:05:27 <gjs278> I used to have problems with transactions and then I just forwarded 8333
3002 2011-06-01 18:05:28 darbsllim has joined
3003 2011-06-01 18:05:30 <gjs278> and now it's all instant for me
3004 2011-06-01 18:05:47 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: and those are the two methods they've proposed, neither of which do anything to decentralize things as both methods end up with large service providers doing the resolution for end clients for scalability reasons
3005 2011-06-01 18:06:05 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: and this is why namecoin is a failure
3006 2011-06-01 18:06:10 <jrmithdobbs> (before it even starts)
3007 2011-06-01 18:06:25 <gjs278> every alternate dns is a failure for any widespread usage
3008 2011-06-01 18:06:35 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: does -nolisten stop itself from advertising?
3009 2011-06-01 18:06:50 <jrmithdobbs> maybe -nolisten needs to be turned on by default
3010 2011-06-01 18:06:59 <jgarzik> another reason why I'm not jumping up and down to fix this: running a P2P node on the network, "drinking from the firehose" (the block chain), is a big responsibility
3011 2011-06-01 18:07:01 <jrmithdobbs> to get bad peers to stop propigating themselves
3012 2011-06-01 18:07:07 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: it could check the hosts IP address.
3013 2011-06-01 18:07:10 <jgarzik> Running a P2P node is not for Aunt Tillie.
3014 2011-06-01 18:07:12 <tcatm> If bootstrapping really becomes a huge problem, can we release a quick fix for 0.3.22.1 in a separate branch but continue work based on 0.3.22?
3015 2011-06-01 18:07:15 <jgarzik> Aunt Tillie should be using a website.
3016 2011-06-01 18:07:24 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: and if its RFC1918 then no listen unless it can do upnp.
3017 2011-06-01 18:07:31 AStove has quit ()
3018 2011-06-01 18:07:32 <jgarzik> Running a P2P node requires technical expertise
3019 2011-06-01 18:07:40 <gjs278> 50 years from now we'll tell our grandkids how we used raw bitcoind to handle our transactions
3020 2011-06-01 18:07:49 <jgarzik> yep
3021 2011-06-01 18:07:49 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: says the guy working on a web wallet.
3022 2011-06-01 18:07:54 <gmaxwell> ;)
3023 2011-06-01 18:08:01 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: true, you are right about their proposed solutions to the problem (at least the problem I was thinking they want to solve) and how they suck...
3024 2011-06-01 18:08:02 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: rfc1918 or rfc3927
3025 2011-06-01 18:08:04 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: but now back to "jrmithdobbs> x6763: tell me the problem you think they're trying to solve and i'll tell you why it's not one."
3026 2011-06-01 18:08:08 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: you're working on a web wallet? cool...
3027 2011-06-01 18:08:14 <gmaxwell> but more seriously â my mom can handle running random P2P clients just fine.
3028 2011-06-01 18:08:23 <gjs278> not if they have a problem
3029 2011-06-01 18:08:28 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: oh I thought you were working on one.
3030 2011-06-01 18:08:31 <gjs278> like not connecting to nodes
3031 2011-06-01 18:08:37 <gjs278> mom can't upnp
3032 2011-06-01 18:08:38 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: it's not a problem because it's as decentralized as it can feasibly get from a technical standpoint without completely re-implementing dns which is not pratical or feasible
3033 2011-06-01 18:08:41 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: the problem i (maybe incorrectly) though they were trying to solve is the one of there being a central authority...so how is that not a problem, at least to some people?
3034 2011-06-01 18:09:01 <tcatm> lfm: 59240 nodes
3035 2011-06-01 18:09:11 <jgarzik> running a bitcoin client implies that you are running a node directly on a network that is __likely__ to be attacked repeatedly over time. this is pure money. that always attracts thieves, with varying degrees of violence.
3036 2011-06-01 18:09:13 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: you don't like one registrar's policies for domain seizure? use a different one on a more permissive tld
3037 2011-06-01 18:09:21 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: technically the DNS protocol can remain completely unchanged yet still be further decentralized
3038 2011-06-01 18:09:23 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: go code that patch. I think it's a great idea.
3039 2011-06-01 18:09:54 <jgarzik> running a bitcoin client implies you are willing to accept an every-increasing amount of internet bandwidth and disk storage, processing "the world's" transactions
3040 2011-06-01 18:09:57 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: you don't like any of them? petition arin to start your own tld and register only domains off of that
3041 2011-06-01 18:10:06 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: check to see if the local address is likely a public one, if not, only advertise if upnp is enabled or if specificaly told to.
3042 2011-06-01 18:10:08 <jgarzik> this is not for the faint of heart (or of bandwidth or of computer)
3043 2011-06-01 18:10:34 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: i don't deal with governments or their institutions unless i'm forced to
3044 2011-06-01 18:10:34 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: this might be more an of an issue next yet. Right now we have one major bitcoin client. And it doesn't work for people.
3045 2011-06-01 18:10:36 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
3046 2011-06-01 18:10:36 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":9.391,"low":8.1,"vol":43766,"buy":9.2,"sell":9.21,"last":9.21}}
3047 2011-06-01 18:10:39 <gjs278> damn
3048 2011-06-01 18:10:46 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: and that gives people the impression that bitcoin is not solid technology.
3049 2011-06-01 18:10:49 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: well then you've chosen to opt out of the system and have no room to bitch
3050 2011-06-01 18:10:57 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: it's all about choice my friend ;P
3051 2011-06-01 18:11:11 fimp has joined
3052 2011-06-01 18:11:15 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: sounds like bitcoin.org should be pointing people to mtgox.com, mybitcoin.com, instawallet, ...
3053 2011-06-01 18:11:18 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: if someone were suggesting something that needed a rewrite to make it work, that would be another matter: Go write a lite client is the answer.
3054 2011-06-01 18:11:38 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: a block chain for domain registration and a distributed storage method for dns records can completely decentralize dns
3055 2011-06-01 18:11:46 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: yea, great, I can't recommend things like mybitcoin because I can't even assess the risk that they'll flee with the money.
3056 2011-06-01 18:11:52 AStove has joined
3057 2011-06-01 18:11:57 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: i don't think it can, and so far they're proving me right
3058 2011-06-01 18:12:14 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: because the people involved don't understand the system they're trying to usurp
3059 2011-06-01 18:12:16 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: who's proving you right? the people that aren't doing it that way?
3060 2011-06-01 18:12:21 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: and most of the places touching classic currencies are intentionally in carefully chosen jurisdictions to insulate themselves from random banking laws. Not exactly the stuff trust is made from.
3061 2011-06-01 18:12:23 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: namecoin
3062 2011-06-01 18:12:36 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: i'm not talking about namecoin, i'm talking about how it *could* be done
3063 2011-06-01 18:12:40 <jgarzik> running the official bitcoin client means processing all the world's transactions. your mom can run the bitcoin client... until there's a problem. then she's at a loss how to diagnose or solve the problem. and she's probably lost her wallet to a virus anyway, because she wasn't crypto-savvy.
3064 2011-06-01 18:12:49 <jgarzik> sorry, I don't buy that
3065 2011-06-01 18:12:49 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: not their sorry attempt
3066 2011-06-01 18:12:54 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: i don't see a way it "could" bedone that gets rid of the root
3067 2011-06-01 18:13:12 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: lets say the actual registration process was replaced with a blockchain implementation
3068 2011-06-01 18:13:13 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: the block chain would effectively replace the root
3069 2011-06-01 18:13:23 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: and for the sake of argument it only stored the equivilant of NS records
3070 2011-06-01 18:13:29 <samfisher> no transaction yet
3071 2011-06-01 18:13:36 <samfisher> were my bitcoins evaporated?
3072 2011-06-01 18:13:40 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: clients still have to query the "root" blockchain nodes to find current authority information
3073 2011-06-01 18:13:51 <coptic> bitwich!
3074 2011-06-01 18:13:53 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: this is a stupid argume. You're arguing that it's okay for the software to be objectively _broken_ because you think that non-technical users shouldn't run it.
3075 2011-06-01 18:13:57 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: sure it spreads the root out a bit but it hardly decentralizes it
3076 2011-06-01 18:14:04 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: the block chain needs nothing more than transactions that tie a domain to a keypair
3077 2011-06-01 18:14:18 <phantomcircuit> samfisher, there is a 30 minute timer before transactions are rebroadcast
3078 2011-06-01 18:14:20 DukeOfURL has joined
3079 2011-06-01 18:14:24 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: but someone somewhere has to be able to query and/or translate those into usable dns responses
3080 2011-06-01 18:14:42 <phantomcircuit> samfisher, also did you use my custom binaries or -connect ?
3081 2011-06-01 18:14:52 <gmaxwell> and I've been forstalling lunch for hours now, trying to argue for simple fixes to just make it not completely broken. I give up.
3082 2011-06-01 18:14:58 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: no, it's the same reason you don't let truckers on the road without a special driver's license
3083 2011-06-01 18:15:00 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: and those points sit on physical machines. within given government's jurisdiction. and can still be forced to stop resolving given domains based on local laws
3084 2011-06-01 18:15:05 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: so it solves nothing.
3085 2011-06-01 18:15:27 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: then make it bloddy clear that bitcoin is not for non-advanced users. To begin with, remove the GUI.
3086 2011-06-01 18:15:33 pusle has joined
3087 2011-06-01 18:15:56 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: wow, you're so closed minded on this issue...each node can run their own little dns server by default that their network settings point to instead of their ISP's dns or wherever
3088 2011-06-01 18:15:58 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: trying to...
3089 2011-06-01 18:16:08 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: then remove IRC seedingâ make people get lists of nodes and addnode them. Require duplex connections so there are no non-listening nodes. Then I might believe that we have a client that random users shouldn't run. :)
3090 2011-06-01 18:16:10 <jgarzik> need libbitcoin first
3091 2011-06-01 18:16:10 metonymous has joined
3092 2011-06-01 18:16:10 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: that server pulls the data from whatever distributed storage method chosen
3093 2011-06-01 18:16:16 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: in progress as well
3094 2011-06-01 18:16:23 <jgarzik> dnsseeding
3095 2011-06-01 18:16:25 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: and verifies it with the block chain
3096 2011-06-01 18:16:37 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: ok, then local authorities just outlaw running your own dns servers without proper telecomm licensing
3097 2011-06-01 18:16:51 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: this is stuff that is *feasible* i'm not living in a dream world
3098 2011-06-01 18:16:55 johnnympereira5 has joined
3099 2011-06-01 18:16:58 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: DNS seeding is for pansies that can't configure software. when you setup a recursive resolver you don't dns seed! you have to hard code the initial roots. :)
3100 2011-06-01 18:17:00 ArtForzZz has joined
3101 2011-06-01 18:17:19 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: so they're going to start inspecting everyone's computers to see if they're serving their own DNS requests?
3102 2011-06-01 18:17:21 GarrettB has joined
3103 2011-06-01 18:17:21 GarrettB has quit (Changing host)
3104 2011-06-01 18:17:21 GarrettB has joined
3105 2011-06-01 18:17:32 <coptic> ArtForzZz - greetings
3106 2011-06-01 18:17:35 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: not to mention that having to cache and parse multi hunder megabyte to gigabyte block chains while doing dns resolution at load is just a down right absurd idea, which you'd know if you've ever run an internet facing dns system with more than a few zones
3107 2011-06-01 18:17:39 <metonymous> hey all
3108 2011-06-01 18:17:42 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: hush and go fix bitcoin, you had a good idea. go code it. I promise to spend a minimum of 8 hours annoying the @#$@ out of people to get them to merge the patch if you do.
3109 2011-06-01 18:17:44 <metonymous> what'd i miss :P
3110 2011-06-01 18:17:53 <gjs278> what is the patch
3111 2011-06-01 18:17:53 <jrmithdobbs> lol
3112 2011-06-01 18:17:58 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3113 2011-06-01 18:18:23 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: DNS resolution at load? one person does not generate that much of a load
3114 2011-06-01 18:18:42 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: turn on -nolisten by default unless upnp specifically enabled on specifically told otherwise if the host's address is rfc1918 or rfc3927 (private ips, link-local autoconfig ips)
3115 2011-06-01 18:18:53 <metonymous> question: why doesn't the released builds contain the latest block chain, at least from the time of build
3116 2011-06-01 18:18:57 <gjs278> gotcha
3117 2011-06-01 18:19:02 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: should prevent nodes that can't be connected to from spamming themselves out and dirtying up everyones addr.dat
3118 2011-06-01 18:19:13 <gjs278> those motherfjuckers
3119 2011-06-01 18:19:18 <jrmithdobbs> i know right
3120 2011-06-01 18:19:31 <phantomcircuit> lol i could trivially destroy the addr.dat right now
3121 2011-06-01 18:19:32 <coptic> tilapia
3122 2011-06-01 18:19:43 <phantomcircuit> just spam the fuck out of the network with fake addr messages
3123 2011-06-01 18:19:45 <coptic> bro[]
3124 2011-06-01 18:19:46 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: oh hey we just looked at the same code ;P
3125 2011-06-01 18:19:48 <jrmithdobbs> lol
3126 2011-06-01 18:19:49 <metonymous> today i learnt a pain in the arse
3127 2011-06-01 18:20:06 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3128 2011-06-01 18:20:08 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: if you really think asking every end user to run their own resolver is feasible, then sure i suppose it could work
3129 2011-06-01 18:20:24 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: i; however, live in the real world
3130 2011-06-01 18:20:56 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: the only thing they'd have to do is change their network settings to point to the DNS server automatically running on their machine after installing the software! and even that configuration change could be automated!
3131 2011-06-01 18:21:13 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: why are you assuming that it would be made difficult for people?
3132 2011-06-01 18:22:01 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: because running your own resolver RIGHT NOW is a good idea due to stupid isp filtering/rewriting crap
3133 2011-06-01 18:22:07 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: You don't have to go as far as nolisten, just have the same effect on the advertising behavior that nolisten (or being a tor node) has.
3134 2011-06-01 18:22:19 <jrmithdobbs> yet people constantly bitch about isp resolver filtering/rewriting crap proving they're not willing to do so
3135 2011-06-01 18:22:35 <BlueMatt> ok, weve been discussing this all day. I think weve all said all there is to say...does anyone have a patch/thing to do that they firmly believe should be added in 0.3.22?
3136 2011-06-01 18:22:54 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it's all IRC chatter until it's discussed on the forum
3137 2011-06-01 18:22:55 <BlueMatt> or can we push 0.3.22 and try to push towards 0.4.0 asap
3138 2011-06-01 18:22:55 <jrmithdobbs> connect() timeout is a show stopping bug as far as i'm concerned
3139 2011-06-01 18:22:58 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: how is your simplified patch?
3140 2011-06-01 18:23:10 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: imo irc chatter tends to be better than the forum...but ok
3141 2011-06-01 18:23:16 <jrmithdobbs> unless you want to do 3.22 and then a 3.22.1 just for the connect() timeout
3142 2011-06-01 18:23:29 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: gotta keep the community informed
3143 2011-06-01 18:23:32 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: the only reason why I'm not advocating 0.4.0 asap is because there were other disruptive and potentially unsafe changes in the pipe (encrypted wallets, for example)
3144 2011-06-01 18:23:51 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: meh, I leave that up to you...the discussion here tends to be much better...less noobs (well slightly)
3145 2011-06-01 18:24:06 <gjs278> more trollnals
3146 2011-06-01 18:24:11 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well obviously go through full test phase, but just spend time on it
3147 2011-06-01 18:24:19 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, http://bitcoinconsultancy.com/nonblocking.patch
3148 2011-06-01 18:24:31 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the same scenario occurs w/ kernel. there is a tightly focused dev channel #kernel on a sekrit IRC server, but you want big decisions on publicly archived media (very high volume linux-kernel mailing list in the kernel's case, forum.bitcoin.org in bitcoin's case)
3149 2011-06-01 18:24:32 <gmaxwell> Well I really want to have lunch, but if it's not moot when I get back I'll be happy to go on the forums and point out that the software just doesn't work as is.
3150 2011-06-01 18:24:51 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, SHAZAM
3151 2011-06-01 18:25:21 <darbsllim> Guys i'm about to launch a micro job site for BitCoin, was wondering if I could get some input from you folks.
3152 2011-06-01 18:25:37 <gjs278> pinoys don't accept bitcoins
3153 2011-06-01 18:25:38 <darbsllim> Should we list the jobs in USD Value of BTC, or just BTC?
3154 2011-06-01 18:25:50 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: true, and there are people who go to the forum to ask for comments/suggestions when a big change is to happen...but for this, Id rather keep the decision to people who really know what they are talking about not people who think we should do everything now and dont pay attention to release schedule
3155 2011-06-01 18:25:53 <jgarzik> darbsllim: what will humans reading the site prefer?
3156 2011-06-01 18:26:03 <coptic> i say btc
3157 2011-06-01 18:26:08 <BlueMatt> w/ kernel it is at least a bit better as even the LKML is a bit better than the bitcoin forums
3158 2011-06-01 18:26:10 <darbsllim> jgarzik I would think USD value of BTC
3159 2011-06-01 18:26:16 <gjs278> why
3160 2011-06-01 18:26:23 <gjs278> shouldnt they pay the coins ahead of time into the system
3161 2011-06-01 18:26:27 nixh4ck has joined
3162 2011-06-01 18:26:40 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, linux binaries @ http://bitcoinconsultancy.com/bitcoin-linux.zip
3163 2011-06-01 18:26:44 <coptic> btc because ppl have their own notion of the future value of btc which means everyone interprets a btc number differently based on their time horizon expectations etc
3164 2011-06-01 18:26:46 <phantomcircuit> (using DB 4.7)
3165 2011-06-01 18:26:47 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yea.. I hesitate to use the forums in fairness to people minding the release dates.
3166 2011-06-01 18:26:49 <jgarzik> darbsllim: certainly some sort of conversion-to-local-currency makes a lot of sense
3167 2011-06-01 18:27:02 noru has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3168 2011-06-01 18:27:03 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I think I could very easily get an angry mob yelling at you to take these changes (wisely or notâ¦)
3169 2011-06-01 18:27:15 * jgarzik rolls his eyes
3170 2011-06-01 18:27:17 <coptic> 4.00 B <small>$32.00</small>
3171 2011-06-01 18:27:18 <gjs278> the forum still defends cpu mining
3172 2011-06-01 18:27:20 <jgarzik> afraid of a little angry mob?
3173 2011-06-01 18:27:25 <jgarzik> bitcoin is not for you.
3174 2011-06-01 18:27:31 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: once I suggest to people that the continued climb of the value of their bitcoins is being eroded by the software being unusuable to most new users⦠:)
3175 2011-06-01 18:27:33 <jgarzik> :)
3176 2011-06-01 18:27:47 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: haha not afraid, but it's annoying. :)
3177 2011-06-01 18:27:53 <BlueMatt> in any case, there has been no response to the question of anything good for 0.3.22 (sorry phantomcircuit I really dont think connect timeout fix is small enough for 0.3.22, but maybe someone disagrees?)
3178 2011-06-01 18:28:03 <gjs278> release
3179 2011-06-01 18:28:10 <BlueMatt> so Id say push 0.3.22, now the question is do we do a 0.3.22.1 or just go for 0.4.0
3180 2011-06-01 18:28:13 metonymous has quit (Quit: metonymous)
3181 2011-06-01 18:28:18 <jgarzik> gosh darn that public discussion thing. if the discussion stays within my elite clique, then everyone will continue to agree with me. outside input is annoying. </sarcasm>
3182 2011-06-01 18:28:18 <gmaxwell> I mean I might be disagreeing with you here, but I at least understand the tradeoffs.
3183 2011-06-01 18:28:23 <gjs278> what happened to 0.3.23
3184 2011-06-01 18:28:33 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, i never said it was, actually i said the opposite
3185 2011-06-01 18:28:41 <jgarzik> gjs278: 0.4 has more awesome
3186 2011-06-01 18:28:44 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: ah, sorry...
3187 2011-06-01 18:28:48 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: doing a fast 22.1 would also satisify my concerns.
3188 2011-06-01 18:28:55 <BlueMatt> gjs278: meh, they are just numbers call it what you want
3189 2011-06-01 18:28:56 <gjs278> thats why I'm upgrading to kernel 3.0 soon
3190 2011-06-01 18:29:17 <BlueMatt> yea I want to get on kernel 3.0 and test out all the cool new features...oh wait
3191 2011-06-01 18:29:20 <darbsllim> jgarzik and gjs278 - I wanted to keep the jobs at a $5 value and display ONLY in BTC - but with the swing of BTC, the price would be changing lower all the timne and might be a negative psychologial effect as buyers think they are earning less and less...
3192 2011-06-01 18:29:36 <gjs278> the swing of btc has always been up
3193 2011-06-01 18:29:39 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, lol
3194 2011-06-01 18:29:43 <gjs278> if anything the people posting the jobs might just end up overpaying
3195 2011-06-01 18:29:48 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3196 2011-06-01 18:30:22 <darbsllim> gjs278 I know but like a month ago you'd be earning 1 BTC for the job that today only pays 0.4 BTC - that might feel discouraging to eopel if we don't have 0.4 BTC (~$5 USD)
3197 2011-06-01 18:30:25 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: in any case, I plan on writing this stuff up on forum later today...just wanted a consensus from here first
3198 2011-06-01 18:30:34 <BlueMatt> also, jgarzik, your opinion on a 0.3.22.1?
3199 2011-06-01 18:30:41 <gjs278> yeah just do the <small> idea
3200 2011-06-01 18:30:46 <jgarzik> I will push back hard on changing 0.3.22
3201 2011-06-01 18:30:57 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, 0.3.23, please dont change the version scheme
3202 2011-06-01 18:30:59 <jgarzik> I think you're getting swayed by a small vocal IRC minority
3203 2011-06-01 18:31:08 Archevety has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
3204 2011-06-01 18:31:09 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: we had 0.3.20.1 and .2
3205 2011-06-01 18:31:16 <phantomcircuit> lol
3206 2011-06-01 18:31:17 <darbsllim> BlueMatt what s this software we're talking about?
3207 2011-06-01 18:31:22 <phantomcircuit> then please in the future dont do dat
3208 2011-06-01 18:31:28 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: we can do a quick 0.3.23 if needed. new versions are cheap and easy.
3209 2011-06-01 18:31:44 <gjs278> I don't read the numbers past .20 in that scenario
3210 2011-06-01 18:31:45 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: i guess i'm not as concerned about those who bitch about isp filtering/rewriting while not willing to change anything as much as i'm concerned about those that are willing to change something (simply download and install some software...more people know how to do this than how to change their DNS configuration)
3211 2011-06-01 18:31:48 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: actually I disagree, Ive seen it take an hour to connect easily, I just hadnt bothered briging it up till now
3212 2011-06-01 18:32:25 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, usually it takes about a day for me
3213 2011-06-01 18:32:25 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: basically waiting on Gavin at this point for 0.3.22
3214 2011-06-01 18:32:27 <phantomcircuit> lol
3215 2011-06-01 18:32:29 <jrmithdobbs> x6763: but running your own resolver is as easy "downloading and installing some software" that's the part you're missing.
3216 2011-06-01 18:32:41 <phantomcircuit> anybody know where the transaction retransmit timer is?
3217 2011-06-01 18:32:41 <coptic> is there a plugin that dumps the blocks into a db?
3218 2011-06-01 18:32:50 <coptic> like to an sql back end
3219 2011-06-01 18:32:50 <phantomcircuit> id really rather not go code spelunking to find it
3220 2011-06-01 18:32:57 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: just need to finish writing it...
3221 2011-06-01 18:33:11 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok, then yea 0.3.22 is as-is and 0.3.23 (maybe) to try to help peer selection, pending result of forum discussion
3222 2011-06-01 18:33:17 weyland has joined
3223 2011-06-01 18:33:19 <jgarzik> this is definitely post-0.3.22 material. If people really want 0.3.23 before all the big changes in 0.4, that's perfectly OK.
3224 2011-06-01 18:33:21 <darbsllim> BlueMatt are we talking about the actual bitcoin client?
3225 2011-06-01 18:33:28 <BlueMatt> darbsllim: yes
3226 2011-06-01 18:33:44 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, and anybody who wants the patch can get linux builds from me anyways
3227 2011-06-01 18:33:47 <darbsllim> BlueMatt do you think people will really be concerned with the naming of h new client?
3228 2011-06-01 18:34:05 <darbsllim> version number naming*
3229 2011-06-01 18:34:07 <jrmithdobbs> darbsllim: .4 has some big possibly-breaking-things changes
3230 2011-06-01 18:34:16 <x6763> jrmithdobbs: currently have 99% of a bitcoin node written from scratch...after a couple months of not touching it, i'm back on it again, currently getting rid of berkeley db i had initially used (was intending my bitcoin node to be drop-in compatible with the original bitcoin client)
3231 2011-06-01 18:35:01 <coptic> how do mtgox and other services know your confirms.. do they scan the blocks each time or have some sql thingamabob
3232 2011-06-01 18:35:06 <BlueMatt> darbsllim: they are just numbers, i dont care what its called
3233 2011-06-01 18:35:09 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, oh i know what the problem is, --enable-monolithic
3234 2011-06-01 18:35:11 <phantomcircuit> god damn it
3235 2011-06-01 18:35:26 <BlueMatt> but we use that :(
3236 2011-06-01 18:35:33 Mononofu has left ()
3237 2011-06-01 18:35:41 <lfm> coptic: they can send queries to bitcoind
3238 2011-06-01 18:35:48 <coptic> oh interesting
3239 2011-06-01 18:35:51 cboy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3240 2011-06-01 18:35:52 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, i should be able to build as individual pieces and then link them separately later though right?
3241 2011-06-01 18:36:03 <coptic> thats pretty slick
3242 2011-06-01 18:36:10 <weyland> greets. Im trying to debug a script where I am using getaccountaddress after invoking getnewaddress. listreceivedbyaddress shows that the accounts are being created and associated with new addresses but getaccountaddress will only retrieve the 8th array element, when there are many more than that, all with the same account name and label. what am i doing wrong?
3243 2011-06-01 18:36:10 niekie_ is now known as niekie
3244 2011-06-01 18:36:39 <coptic> jgarzik is cool
3245 2011-06-01 18:36:49 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: ld will still want it all in mem
3246 2011-06-01 18:36:50 <jgarzik> not really
3247 2011-06-01 18:37:06 <jgarzik> weyland: getaccountaddress gets you a "fresh" address for that account
3248 2011-06-01 18:37:06 <BlueMatt> lol
3249 2011-06-01 18:37:28 <jgarzik> weyland: it rotates so that you don't re-use the same address (increasing security)
3250 2011-06-01 18:40:41 weyland has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3251 2011-06-01 18:41:43 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, no you can do incremental linking
3252 2011-06-01 18:41:59 <phantomcircuit> it's why it's possible to link boost
3253 2011-06-01 18:41:59 <BlueMatt> can, does ld do that by default though?
3254 2011-06-01 18:42:09 <phantomcircuit> if you had all the pieces in memory at the same time it would be like 50G
3255 2011-06-01 18:42:19 <BlueMatt> wtf are you building
3256 2011-06-01 18:42:25 <BlueMatt> the wx I built does not need 50G
3257 2011-06-01 18:42:29 <BlueMatt> or even 1g
3258 2011-06-01 18:43:26 <phantomcircuit> wat no i mena boost would be 50G
3259 2011-06-01 18:43:31 <phantomcircuit> wxwidgets is just 10
3260 2011-06-01 18:43:37 <BlueMatt> the boost I have isnt nearly 50g
3261 2011-06-01 18:43:40 <BlueMatt> or even 1g
3262 2011-06-01 18:44:06 <BlueMatt> and boost isnt monolithic like boost for bitcoin
3263 2011-06-01 18:44:06 <phantomcircuit> the linking step uses a ton of memory because it does a cartesian join
3264 2011-06-01 18:44:09 llandru has joined
3265 2011-06-01 18:44:27 <phantomcircuit> so if you do incremental linking it uses much less at peak but takes longer
3266 2011-06-01 18:44:37 <BlueMatt> anyway, Ive got to go...maybe we can push a 0.3.23 with dnsseeding enabled more or something...
3267 2011-06-01 18:45:05 <BlueMatt> pwrcycle: btw, I changed a couple things since I emailed it, just grab it from https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/dnsseed instead
3268 2011-06-01 18:45:49 <Phoebus> Bt stuck at 1 connection, how long for a transfer to go through at that?
3269 2011-06-01 18:46:06 <phantomcircuit> Phoebus, forever
3270 2011-06-01 18:46:08 gasteve has joined
3271 2011-06-01 18:46:20 <Phoebus> lol gr8 omg 2 connections finally.
3272 2011-06-01 18:46:59 <gasteve> anyone else here have issues on Mac OSX with the client taking forever to find any connections on startup? I don't seem to have this issue on Linux
3273 2011-06-01 18:47:13 <phantomcircuit> Phoebus, either use -connect (which forces a single know good connection) or use a custom build
3274 2011-06-01 18:47:44 <phantomcircuit> oh balls last patch broke shit
3275 2011-06-01 18:47:49 <BlueMatt> Phoebus: as long as you have 1 connection, your txes should go through fine
3276 2011-06-01 18:47:50 <Phoebus> "Status: 0/offline?, has not been successfully broadcast yet" any way to force bt to rebroadcast?
3277 2011-06-01 18:47:51 <llandru> greets. Im tying to integrate address changing in a script. Im invoking getnewaddress and then trying to display the resulting changed address with getaccountaddress. When I inspect my wallet with listreceivedbyaddress, I can see that 16 new addresses have been created for the same user, but getaccountaddress keeps returning the eighth array entry and not the latest one. What am I doing wrong?
3278 2011-06-01 18:47:56 cboy has joined
3279 2011-06-01 18:47:57 <BlueMatt> its only 0 thats a problem
3280 2011-06-01 18:48:10 <Phoebus> Was 0 now it's 1.
3281 2011-06-01 18:48:14 <Phoebus> 2nd one oscilates.
3282 2011-06-01 18:48:15 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, the first connection is usually a phantom, i have no idea why
3283 2011-06-01 18:48:23 qwebirc27473 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3284 2011-06-01 18:48:40 traviscj_ has joined
3285 2011-06-01 18:48:57 <gasteve> I just joined...what connection issues are people discussing? is this in relation to OSX? or problems finding connections in general?
3286 2011-06-01 18:49:07 <phantomcircuit> in general
3287 2011-06-01 18:50:05 traviscj has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3288 2011-06-01 18:50:25 <gasteve> I keep a bitcoin running on one of my Ubuntu machines all the time...even if I use -addnode, it reports 1 connection, but seems to take forever to find a second or more...and it never seems to download the blocks from that 1 connection
3289 2011-06-01 18:50:49 <Phoebus> Ok, xfer went through just fine. Cheers though.
3290 2011-06-01 18:51:06 <phantomcircuit> oh crap
3291 2011-06-01 18:51:13 <phantomcircuit> single char typo in my patch
3292 2011-06-01 18:51:17 <phantomcircuit> who can find it first :P
3293 2011-06-01 18:51:20 <gasteve> (it's not until it eventually establishes a second or more connections that it finally seems to download blocks)
3294 2011-06-01 18:52:17 traviscj_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3295 2011-06-01 18:53:13 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, you're probably connecting to other clients that dont have the blocks themselves
3296 2011-06-01 18:53:58 <gasteve> it should be connecting to my client on Ubuntu (using -addnode)...which has all the blocks (and around 70 active connections)
3297 2011-06-01 18:54:15 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, is that other client on a private ip?
3298 2011-06-01 18:54:21 <gasteve> no
3299 2011-06-01 18:54:24 <phantomcircuit> hmm
3300 2011-06-01 18:54:26 <phantomcircuit> interesting
3301 2011-06-01 18:54:38 <gasteve> actually, yes...it's 192.168... IP
3302 2011-06-01 18:54:43 Netsniper has quit (Quit: Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. -Emma Goldman)
3303 2011-06-01 18:54:47 <gasteve> but my OSX machine is on the same network
3304 2011-06-01 18:54:47 <lfm> tcatm: I suspect the "last seen" includes incomming connects so it is not an indication it will accept incoming
3305 2011-06-01 18:55:05 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, yeah you cant use addnode with private ips, private ips will only work with -connect
3306 2011-06-01 18:55:08 Netsniper has joined
3307 2011-06-01 18:55:15 <gasteve> hmmm...actually, OSX is on wireless that's bridged with the wired net that the Ubuntu machine is on
3308 2011-06-01 18:55:24 eoss has joined
3309 2011-06-01 18:55:38 zhuzhuor has joined
3310 2011-06-01 18:55:44 <tcatm> lfm: ok so we should change that
3311 2011-06-01 18:55:52 <gasteve> ok...but there's still an issue...when I don't use -addnode, it's still taking forever to establish any connections
3312 2011-06-01 18:55:55 <phantomcircuit> gasteve, 192.168.0.0/16 10.0.0.0/8 and the other one all of those wont work with -addnode
3313 2011-06-01 18:56:05 fimp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3314 2011-06-01 18:56:46 <lfm> gasteve: yes we know
3315 2011-06-01 18:57:00 <gasteve> I fwd 8332 to the Ubuntu client...I wonder...is it possible that when contacting clients they're trying to dial me back on the public IP at port 8332 and finding the ubuntu machine instead?
3316 2011-06-01 18:57:33 <jrmithdobbs> gasteve: they dialback on 8333
3317 2011-06-01 18:57:34 <lfm> phantomcircuit: um -addnode 192.168 seems to work for me
3318 2011-06-01 18:57:41 jivvz has joined
3319 2011-06-01 18:57:52 <pwrcycle> what does this mean: "This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least 0.01 because of its amount, complexity, or use of recently received funds"
3320 2011-06-01 18:58:01 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: those work fine with addnode/connect, it's how i connect to my public node that's on a site-to-site vpn
3321 2011-06-01 18:58:07 <pwrcycle> how long do you have to wait for "recently received funds" to send with no fee?
3322 2011-06-01 18:58:11 <gasteve> lfm: what do you mean you know? are others having issues with establishing connections? is the reason known?
3323 2011-06-01 18:58:17 <pwrcycle> from bitcoind
3324 2011-06-01 18:58:21 <gjs278> I send feeless payments all of the time
3325 2011-06-01 18:58:24 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: -nolisten -connect=10.253.253.28
3326 2011-06-01 18:58:29 <gjs278> those 9 cents are mine
3327 2011-06-01 18:58:42 <jrmithdobbs> gasteve: yes and yes
3328 2011-06-01 18:58:51 <lfm> gasteve: ya, other have the same issues
3329 2011-06-01 18:59:00 <jrmithdobbs> gasteve: we were discussing the fix for this ad naseum not 30 minutes ago for the previous 3-4 hours
3330 2011-06-01 18:59:11 <jrmithdobbs> gasteve: heh
3331 2011-06-01 18:59:16 <gasteve> ok...any summary of the issue anywhere?
3332 2011-06-01 18:59:43 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
3333 2011-06-01 19:00:10 <jrmithdobbs> gasteve: connect() doesn't ever timeout, there's been a flood of new clients on the network that you can't connect to, so if you get unlucky and hit 8 that wont connect on your first attempt (very likely) you're pretty much screwed without -addnode=<known good node> or deleting addr.dat and starting with -dnsseed -noirc
3334 2011-06-01 19:00:13 dukeleto has joined
3335 2011-06-01 19:00:18 <lfm> gasteve: easiest work around is put -addnode=75.158.131.108 or some such on your command line
3336 2011-06-01 19:00:24 zamgo has joined
3337 2011-06-01 19:00:41 <lfm> gasteve: with aknown active good node number
3338 2011-06-01 19:00:43 <gasteve> ah..thanks
3339 2011-06-01 19:00:47 <jrmithdobbs> gasteve: -addnode=69.41.162.72 as well
3340 2011-06-01 19:00:55 <jrmithdobbs> gasteve: is my known-good node
3341 2011-06-01 19:01:02 <phantomcircuit> lfm, lol it shouldn't there is an explicit removal of private ips
3342 2011-06-01 19:01:21 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: if there is that needs to be patched out, where are you seeing that?
3343 2011-06-01 19:01:36 <lfm> phantomcircuit: I think command line overrides that, needed for testnets and such at least
3344 2011-06-01 19:01:41 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: because my use case isn't that uncommon. (connecting to a private ip on a public facing node)
3345 2011-06-01 19:01:43 <phantomcircuit> lfm, possible
3346 2011-06-01 19:02:29 <jrmithdobbs> actually, let me look through my tree commits before i spout off, i may have had to patch it to make it work
3347 2011-06-01 19:03:04 <lfm> phantomcircuit: your right it has to weed those out before they get in addr.dat and whatnot
3348 2011-06-01 19:03:58 <gasteve> why is it that a adding a private IP doesn't work?
3349 2011-06-01 19:04:00 <jrmithdobbs> you sure it does?
3350 2011-06-01 19:04:05 gwelymernan has joined
3351 2011-06-01 19:04:07 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: ^
3352 2011-06-01 19:04:29 <phantomcircuit> let me double check
3353 2011-06-01 19:04:51 <jrmithdobbs> i'm not seeing anything in db.cpp that filters but haven't gotten to main.cpp yet
3354 2011-06-01 19:04:52 larsivi has joined
3355 2011-06-01 19:05:13 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, grep -rF "192.168" .
3356 2011-06-01 19:05:24 <phantomcircuit> er
3357 2011-06-01 19:05:27 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, grep -rF "192" .
3358 2011-06-01 19:05:29 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: i grepped for 10[.] and it's not finding those
3359 2011-06-01 19:05:45 <jrmithdobbs> ugh
3360 2011-06-01 19:05:47 <phantomcircuit> ./net.cpp:96
3361 2011-06-01 19:06:21 <jrmithdobbs> oh nice it's leaving out rfc3927 in the filtering
3362 2011-06-01 19:07:11 <phantomcircuit> lol
3363 2011-06-01 19:07:16 <phantomcircuit> ok
3364 2011-06-01 19:07:25 <phantomcircuit> http://bitcoinconsultancy.com/bitcoin-linux.zip
3365 2011-06-01 19:07:27 <jrmithdobbs> that filtering must not be working though
3366 2011-06-01 19:07:37 <phantomcircuit> functioning binaries that will connect to 8 peers within seconds
3367 2011-06-01 19:07:42 <jrmithdobbs> because -connect=10.253.253.253.28 (or addnode) works fine for me, lol
3368 2011-06-01 19:07:53 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: you got that on git yet?
3369 2011-06-01 19:08:13 <phantomcircuit> yes
3370 2011-06-01 19:08:30 forexmasterja has joined
3371 2011-06-01 19:08:36 <jrmithdobbs> https://github.com/phantomcircuit/bitcoin/tree/nonblockingconnect
3372 2011-06-01 19:08:38 <jrmithdobbs> yup thanks
3373 2011-06-01 19:08:41 <jrmithdobbs> merging now
3374 2011-06-01 19:09:20 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, make sure you get the latest commit i just pushed it
3375 2011-06-01 19:09:34 <phantomcircuit> fixed my single line regression from cleaning it up
3376 2011-06-01 19:09:36 <jrmithdobbs> ya i hadn't even added the remote yet
3377 2011-06-01 19:10:00 <jrmithdobbs> also would you guys for the love of god add .*.swp to .gitignore in mainline
3378 2011-06-01 19:10:03 <jrmithdobbs> infuriating!
3379 2011-06-01 19:10:09 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: well I dont see any in my addr.dat but that could be something else
3380 2011-06-01 19:10:17 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, .swp is vim right?
3381 2011-06-01 19:10:20 <jrmithdobbs> ya
3382 2011-06-01 19:10:27 <jrmithdobbs> nvi too
3383 2011-06-01 19:10:51 cacheson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3384 2011-06-01 19:13:36 llandru has left ()
3385 2011-06-01 19:14:17 <comboy> is there any option to limit amount of connections? after I finally decided to open 8333 for bitcoin now I have like 430 of them and it takes some of my bandwidth
3386 2011-06-01 19:14:17 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: building now: $ make -f makefile.unix USE_UPNP= USE_POSIX_CAPABILITIES=1 bitcoind
3387 2011-06-01 19:14:31 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
3388 2011-06-01 19:14:46 SAC has joined
3389 2011-06-01 19:15:00 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: now why would you disable upnp?
3390 2011-06-01 19:15:26 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: because i hate your addition of USE_PNP:=0 to makefile.unix
3391 2011-06-01 19:15:33 <comboy> sorry, always finding it right after asking (maxconnections, I could have guessed actually)
3392 2011-06-01 19:15:36 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: and because that box is on a public static ip ;P
3393 2011-06-01 19:15:39 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: but why would you disable upnp?
3394 2011-06-01 19:15:56 <BlueMatt> and I continue to blame luke for that line, it was his writing
3395 2011-06-01 19:16:11 <jrmithdobbs> that should just be removed from the makefile
3396 2011-06-01 19:16:17 <jrmithdobbs> it doesn't break anything if it is
3397 2011-06-01 19:16:18 <BlueMatt> why?
3398 2011-06-01 19:16:24 <BlueMatt> the default is to build with upnp
3399 2011-06-01 19:16:28 <BlueMatt> why should that be removed
3400 2011-06-01 19:16:34 <BlueMatt> just like the default is to build with gui of wx
3401 2011-06-01 19:16:45 <jrmithdobbs> miniupnpc isn't packaged on most platforms
3402 2011-06-01 19:16:49 <BlueMatt> just because you dont like upnp doesnt mean it should be removed
3403 2011-06-01 19:16:52 <BlueMatt> neither is wx2.9
3404 2011-06-01 19:16:54 <jrmithdobbs> so adding it is a pain
3405 2011-06-01 19:16:55 <gmaxwell> nor is boost or wx.
3406 2011-06-01 19:17:05 <BlueMatt> same with wx
3407 2011-06-01 19:17:05 <gmaxwell> (at least not the development headersâ)
3408 2011-06-01 19:17:06 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: boost is packaged if not compiled by default
3409 2011-06-01 19:17:06 <BlueMatt> get over it
3410 2011-06-01 19:17:13 <lfm> pain is no excuse
3411 2011-06-01 19:17:23 <jrmithdobbs> s/compiled/installed/
3412 2011-06-01 19:17:25 dfc has quit (Quit: leaving)
3413 2011-06-01 19:17:51 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3414 2011-06-01 19:18:30 <iz> jrmithdobbs: don't be the mom that tries to raise everyone else's kids the way she sees fit.. just make a patch for the makefile for your own uses :b
3415 2011-06-01 19:18:41 traviscj has joined
3416 2011-06-01 19:18:56 <jrmithdobbs> iz: or they could just merge autotools and everyone will stop bitching ;)
3417 2011-06-01 19:19:00 <gmaxwell> I admit I don't really care much about minor build complications.
3418 2011-06-01 19:19:26 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: 0.4.0 patience, patience
3419 2011-06-01 19:19:27 <gmaxwell> You had a problem, so you thought "I know! autotools!", now you have 20,000 problems.
3420 2011-06-01 19:19:41 <gmaxwell> Better to just get bitcoin itself packaged.
3421 2011-06-01 19:19:50 <lfm> or make your own little bash script to add all the args you want
3422 2011-06-01 19:20:07 <BlueMatt> patience, 0.4.0, patience
3423 2011-06-01 19:20:32 <iz> patience, patience, 0.4.0 is next, right?
3424 2011-06-01 19:20:49 <BlueMatt> hopefully
3425 2011-06-01 19:21:04 karnac has joined
3426 2011-06-01 19:21:05 <iz> just goofing on the sequence of those first 3 words :b
3427 2011-06-01 19:21:15 d4de has joined
3428 2011-06-01 19:21:16 d4de has quit (Changing host)
3429 2011-06-01 19:21:16 d4de has joined
3430 2011-06-01 19:21:27 <BlueMatt> patience, patience, patience 0.4.0
3431 2011-06-01 19:21:31 <BlueMatt> oh damn, it wasnt ;)
3432 2011-06-01 19:21:38 <iz> haha
3433 2011-06-01 19:21:55 <lfm> ill wait for patience 0.4.1 itll have the worst bugs fixed
3434 2011-06-01 19:21:58 <iz> it's still a substring! ;b
3435 2011-06-01 19:22:33 <BlueMatt> lfm: what do you mean, bitcoin never has bugs
3436 2011-06-01 19:22:33 Phoebus has joined
3437 2011-06-01 19:22:37 <jrmithdobbs> hope all those guys that -addnode'ed that node found some other good peers because it's about to bounce, haha
3438 2011-06-01 19:23:15 RAM2012 has joined
3439 2011-06-01 19:23:42 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: works as expected, initial 8 connections came up much quicker
3440 2011-06-01 19:23:45 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: tail -f your debug.log to see if they are still grabbing blocks
3441 2011-06-01 19:24:01 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: d/c, was bouncing one way or another ;P
3442 2011-06-01 19:27:21 bk128 has joined
3443 2011-06-01 19:27:24 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: potential issue with that patch
3444 2011-06-01 19:27:33 bk128 has quit (Client Quit)
3445 2011-06-01 19:27:48 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, yes?
3446 2011-06-01 19:27:50 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: you sure that Sleep() call is only sleep()'ing the thread the connect() is in? it seems to hang up rpc connections too
3447 2011-06-01 19:27:57 psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3448 2011-06-01 19:28:04 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, Sleep is thread specific
3449 2011-06-01 19:28:24 <jrmithdobbs> ok then that's other startup wonkiness causing rpc to be slow per normal, nm ;P
3450 2011-06-01 19:28:51 <phantomcircuit> lol
3451 2011-06-01 19:28:52 <phantomcircuit> yes
3452 2011-06-01 19:29:07 <jrmithdobbs> ya it's fine now that it's gotten through checking the blockchain and stuff
3453 2011-06-01 19:29:40 <Grady2000> so does 1 confirmation mean 1 block has a record of the trans?
3454 2011-06-01 19:29:59 cboy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3455 2011-06-01 19:30:00 <lfm> Grady2000: ya
3456 2011-06-01 19:30:02 <phantomcircuit> Grady2000, yes
3457 2011-06-01 19:30:29 <Grady2000> and how many computers/clients have 1 block?
3458 2011-06-01 19:30:31 <Grady2000> on average?
3459 2011-06-01 19:30:44 <lfm> Grady2000: generally all of them
3460 2011-06-01 19:30:45 <RAM2012> anyone know what is happening with deepbit?
3461 2011-06-01 19:30:48 <Grady2000> have the info for that block..
3462 2011-06-01 19:30:51 samfisher has quit (Quit: exit error code 434)
3463 2011-06-01 19:30:52 <lfm> ya
3464 2011-06-01 19:31:08 marcin__ has joined
3465 2011-06-01 19:31:14 <lfm> RAM2012: other than it is too big?
3466 2011-06-01 19:31:15 dukeleto has joined
3467 2011-06-01 19:31:30 <RAM2012> other than I haven't been able to connect to it in days...
3468 2011-06-01 19:32:05 <lfm> RAM2012: can you still ping it?
3469 2011-06-01 19:32:07 Toba has joined
3470 2011-06-01 19:32:14 dosmarder has joined
3471 2011-06-01 19:32:31 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3472 2011-06-01 19:32:34 Mononofu has joined
3473 2011-06-01 19:32:48 Forexmasterja_mo has joined
3474 2011-06-01 19:32:57 diki has quit ()
3475 2011-06-01 19:33:19 <Grady2000> so does my windows client store other ppls transactions on balances?
3476 2011-06-01 19:33:27 <lfm> Grady2000: yup
3477 2011-06-01 19:33:28 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
3478 2011-06-01 19:33:30 <Grady2000> store/verify
3479 2011-06-01 19:33:44 <Grady2000> so I'm part of the "database" so to speak?
3480 2011-06-01 19:33:55 <RAM2012> hmmmm ping works. something is going weird with my connection...
3481 2011-06-01 19:33:57 <lfm> Grady2000: every node has a complete history of bitcoin basiclly
3482 2011-06-01 19:34:06 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: ping's been blocked for a while
3483 2011-06-01 19:34:30 <jrmithdobbs> RAM2012: may be a casualty of null routing from the ddos a few days back
3484 2011-06-01 19:34:31 <Grady2000> why are old transactions climbing in the number of confirms, isn't that waisted priority and network usage?
3485 2011-06-01 19:34:36 <jrmithdobbs> RAM2012: hit up [Tycho]
3486 2011-06-01 19:35:13 <phantomcircuit> Grady2000, no additional effort is needed to confirm transactions after the initial confirmation
3487 2011-06-01 19:35:29 <Grady2000> so then what makes that number climb?
3488 2011-06-01 19:35:41 <lfm> Grady2000: the old txn arnt really copies in new blocks. the new blocks just have a has of the prev block
3489 2011-06-01 19:35:54 <lfm> have a hash of the previous block
3490 2011-06-01 19:36:30 <dosmarder> hey, maybe not the right channel but is there somebody here who has been able to use the mtgox api? i know sounds like a silly question but i cant get it to work (tried browser, curl, ruby...)
3491 2011-06-01 19:36:44 eao has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3492 2011-06-01 19:36:50 <lfm> Grady2000: so every new block confirms all the pervious blocks and txn
3493 2011-06-01 19:37:23 <darbsllim> what are the best merchent api tools for bitcoin payments for a startup?
3494 2011-06-01 19:37:37 <[7]> can anybody post an example getwork request to a pool somewhere?
3495 2011-06-01 19:37:45 <lfm> darbsllim: you might try mybitcoin.com
3496 2011-06-01 19:37:55 <[7]> i somehow can't seem to figure out how this is supposed to work
3497 2011-06-01 19:37:59 <darbsllim> lfm I thought that mybitcoin was not secured right now
3498 2011-06-01 19:38:14 <[7]> HTTP isn't a problem, but I seem to not get the JSON request string right
3499 2011-06-01 19:38:15 <lfm> oh, I dunno that
3500 2011-06-01 19:38:55 <coptic> secured?
3501 2011-06-01 19:39:38 samfisher has joined
3502 2011-06-01 19:39:44 toffoo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3503 2011-06-01 19:40:12 <jrmithdobbs> darbsllim: mybitcoin.com or mtgox
3504 2011-06-01 19:40:14 <jrmithdobbs> .com
3505 2011-06-01 19:40:17 toffoo has joined
3506 2011-06-01 19:40:48 <jrmithdobbs> darbsllim: that's about all that's available right now
3507 2011-06-01 19:41:30 <samfisher> what mt gox means?
3508 2011-06-01 19:41:35 <jrmithdobbs> mtgox.com
3509 2011-06-01 19:41:45 <samfisher> mount gox?
3510 2011-06-01 19:41:47 PoulGrym has joined
3511 2011-06-01 19:42:07 <lfm> samfisher: started out as "magic the gathering online exchange"
3512 2011-06-01 19:42:11 <edcba> magic the gathering ...
3513 2011-06-01 19:42:21 <samfisher> oh, nice
3514 2011-06-01 19:42:28 <edcba> seemed a good idea at first
3515 2011-06-01 19:42:31 <samfisher> MT sounds like eMpTy
3516 2011-06-01 19:42:31 <darbsllim> MagicalTux does Mt Gox allow you to see which user made payment to your website so you can give them credits?
3517 2011-06-01 19:42:35 marcin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3518 2011-06-01 19:42:36 zamgo has left ()
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3522 2011-06-01 19:44:45 ArtForzZz is now known as ArtForz
3523 2011-06-01 19:46:03 <phantomcircuit> darbsllim, there is a merchantability api
3524 2011-06-01 19:46:13 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
3525 2011-06-01 19:46:41 <jgarzik> devrandom: if you have a support question, please ask it on the forum or IRC channel
3526 2011-06-01 19:47:08 sixyearolds has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3527 2011-06-01 19:47:31 Jesque has joined
3528 2011-06-01 19:48:12 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3529 2011-06-01 19:48:19 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, i noticed that your using boost 1.43.0
3530 2011-06-01 19:48:21 Dagger3 is now known as Dagger2
3531 2011-06-01 19:48:23 <phantomcircuit> any particular reason why?
3532 2011-06-01 19:48:44 Mononofu has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3533 2011-06-01 19:48:51 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: on which builds?
3534 2011-06-01 19:48:56 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: i build against 1.42 what's it matter?
3535 2011-06-01 19:49:26 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: I dont think I do, but which builds?
3536 2011-06-01 19:49:44 <phantomcircuit> the build-linux-win32.txt doc
3537 2011-06-01 19:49:49 <devrandom1> jgarzik - see pm - it is not a tech support question
3538 2011-06-01 19:50:59 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: if you read it, you would see "Note:
3539 2011-06-01 19:50:59 <BlueMatt> building with boost 1.45.0 failed because of boost ticket 4614, 4258 (marked fixed, but still causing issues) builds fine with boost 1.43.0"
3540 2011-06-01 19:51:05 Mononofu has joined
3541 2011-06-01 19:51:07 <jgarzik> devrandom1: I do not like discussing open source crap in private, nor do I like beeps.
3542 2011-06-01 19:51:55 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
3543 2011-06-01 19:51:56 <devrandom1> I see
3544 2011-06-01 19:52:33 <devrandom1> do you accept contributions that are copyrighted by companies (rather than individuals)?
3545 2011-06-01 19:53:01 <BlueMatt> god I remember when I was the only green node for miles around frankfurt, now there are 10 or 20
3546 2011-06-01 19:53:30 pfifo has joined
3547 2011-06-01 19:53:39 eao has joined
3548 2011-06-01 19:54:12 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3549 2011-06-01 19:54:21 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, ah
3550 2011-06-01 19:54:22 <gjs278> I wonder how many are near me
3551 2011-06-01 19:54:31 <BlueMatt> gjs278: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=https://smsz.net/btcStats/bitcoin.kml
3552 2011-06-01 19:54:52 <BlueMatt> we still have no penetration outside of the us and europe
3553 2011-06-01 19:55:04 <coptic> have you reg'd bitco.in yet
3554 2011-06-01 19:55:22 <coptic> oh nm someone has it
3555 2011-06-01 19:55:27 <gjs278> I'm not in that list
3556 2011-06-01 19:55:29 <gjs278> dang
3557 2011-06-01 19:55:46 <BlueMatt> gjs278: the locations are pretty far off, but you are there, keep looking
3558 2011-06-01 19:55:56 <BlueMatt> (if your node has been up a decent amount of time)
3559 2011-06-01 19:56:15 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, hehe your instructions for cross compiling db are off
3560 2011-06-01 19:56:18 <gjs278> my ip jsut changed 3 days ago, I think I got kicked
3561 2011-06-01 19:56:23 <phantomcircuit> --host should be --build
3562 2011-06-01 19:56:24 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: how so?
3563 2011-06-01 19:56:31 <gjs278> I had the same ip for two years and then comcast decided I needed a different one
3564 2011-06-01 19:56:32 <BlueMatt> nope
3565 2011-06-01 19:56:58 <BlueMatt> Phoebus: no, that is right
3566 2011-06-01 19:57:12 <Phoebus> Oh hi, tab.
3567 2011-06-01 19:57:13 <Phoebus> :P
3568 2011-06-01 19:57:17 <BlueMatt> --build is what you are building on, --host is the target
3569 2011-06-01 19:57:27 qwebirc4480 has joined
3570 2011-06-01 19:57:36 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, --host is the build host, --build is the target
3571 2011-06-01 19:58:29 vigilyn has quit (Quit: ircN 8.00 for mIRC (20100904) - www.ircN.org)
3572 2011-06-01 19:58:31 <phantomcircuit> maybe im wrong
3573 2011-06-01 19:58:32 <phantomcircuit> hmm
3574 2011-06-01 19:58:41 <phantomcircuit> or more accurately bdb is wrong
3575 2011-06-01 19:58:53 <phantomcircuit> yeah
3576 2011-06-01 19:58:57 <phantomcircuit> wow that's a fail
3577 2011-06-01 19:59:44 qwebirc4480 has quit (Client Quit)
3578 2011-06-01 20:02:37 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: wow your geoip data is pretty accurate, you're within a block of being correct on my node ;P
3579 2011-06-01 20:02:50 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: its MagicalTux's
3580 2011-06-01 20:03:03 <BlueMatt> (I think its the free geoip thing)
3581 2011-06-01 20:03:15 <jrmithdobbs> ah they must have updated since i looked at it last
3582 2011-06-01 20:03:17 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, both of those bugs have been closed in 1.46
3583 2011-06-01 20:03:45 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: well 1.46 doesnt work for me last I checked...but maybe Im out of date
3584 2011-06-01 20:03:53 <phantomcircuit> well im about to try it
3585 2011-06-01 20:04:03 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i have one of the only green nodes in downtown/uptown dallas
3586 2011-06-01 20:04:07 <phantomcircuit> it's taken me all day to get a working mingw32 toolkit
3587 2011-06-01 20:04:07 <jrmithdobbs> i'll take it! ;P
3588 2011-06-01 20:04:21 <phantomcircuit> where is this map?
3589 2011-06-01 20:04:22 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: god, what os?
3590 2011-06-01 20:04:27 <jrmithdobbs> what the crap
3591 2011-06-01 20:04:35 <BlueMatt> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=https://smsz.net/btcStats/bitcoin.kml
3592 2011-06-01 20:04:36 <jrmithdobbs> don't tell me unp vol 1 has been taken out of print
3593 2011-06-01 20:04:44 <jrmithdobbs> because some fucker ran off with mine
3594 2011-06-01 20:04:44 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, gentoo, i fucked up cross compile on it in the past though
3595 2011-06-01 20:04:58 <BlueMatt> maybe you should use an os which supports it better then?
3596 2011-06-01 20:05:08 <devrandom1> still curious if bitcoin devs would accept contributions that are copyrighted by a company, or if there's a strong preference for individual copyrights
3597 2011-06-01 20:05:13 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, portage was protecting me from myself by forbidding emerging stuff that would overwrite stuff
3598 2011-06-01 20:05:18 <gjs278> my geoip is so far off
3599 2011-06-01 20:05:24 <gjs278> it's a town and a half over
3600 2011-06-01 20:05:34 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, gentoo supports cross compile very well, the hard part is that i had screwed it up before
3601 2011-06-01 20:05:36 <gjs278> I crosscompile on gentoo
3602 2011-06-01 20:05:43 <gjs278> set it up once, never touched it again
3603 2011-06-01 20:05:51 <jrmithdobbs> oh, 3rd edition got renamed to "the sockets networking api" instead of "volume 1"
3604 2011-06-01 20:05:53 <gjs278> such a pain to get gtk+c working
3605 2011-06-01 20:05:58 <jrmithdobbs> not sure how i feel about these non-stevens edits
3606 2011-06-01 20:06:09 <jrmithdobbs> anyone seen 3rd edition vs 2nd edition of unp vol 1?
3607 2011-06-01 20:06:14 <BlueMatt> devrandom1: currently, all files are tagged (c) Bitcoin Developers ie you give up copyright when you pull request it, though if the company is willing to commit it under mit...I dont see anything wrong with it
3608 2011-06-01 20:07:00 <devrandom1> BlueMatt: thanks
3609 2011-06-01 20:07:25 <devrandom1> BlueMatt: I'll look into assignment to Bitcoin Developers
3610 2011-06-01 20:07:32 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, yeah i broke it by pulling the power half way through the merge portion of installing w32api
3611 2011-06-01 20:07:38 <phantomcircuit> so i had to go through and delete stuff
3612 2011-06-01 20:07:43 <gjs278> lol
3613 2011-06-01 20:07:51 <phantomcircuit> yeah that was a real derp
3614 2011-06-01 20:08:13 <gjs278> I recently up my overclock so I'm afraid I'm going to end up dying with a huge kernel error halfway through an emerge
3615 2011-06-01 20:08:21 <FunkyPenguin> is it possible to copy ~/bitcoin to another machine and effectively have two of the same instances running?
3616 2011-06-01 20:08:21 dukeleto has joined
3617 2011-06-01 20:08:27 <BlueMatt> devrandom1: frankly I wouldnt care if (c) Bitcoin developers, partially (c) Company gets added, though it would get huge if everyone started doing it...
3618 2011-06-01 20:08:27 <gjs278> I ran mprime for like 20 minutes then decided it was go time
3619 2011-06-01 20:08:56 <gjs278> FunkyPenguin it's not a good idea but to answer your question yes it is possible
3620 2011-06-01 20:08:58 qwebirc5769 has joined
3621 2011-06-01 20:09:20 <gjs278> there's really no good reason for it when you can just use bitcoind on one machine and connect to that if you need to do anything
3622 2011-06-01 20:09:37 <phantomcircuit> fucking zip files
3623 2011-06-01 20:10:17 <FunkyPenguin> ah, so really i should have used my server as the main client and not my laptop?
3624 2011-06-01 20:10:19 <naturalethic> if i have two instances of bitcoin running against separate copies of the same wallet, and I spend with one, with the other eventually realize this?
3625 2011-06-01 20:10:38 <phantomcircuit> naturalethic, yes but again plz2not do that
3626 2011-06-01 20:10:57 qwebirc5769 is now known as rene2000
3627 2011-06-01 20:11:15 <naturalethic> phantomcircuit: just wondering what measures i need to take as i'm working on a custom client
3628 2011-06-01 20:11:32 <gjs278> FunkyPenguin if possible, it is a good idea to have your server running as the main client and then sshing to it to do what you need
3629 2011-06-01 20:12:06 <Jesque> hello can someone spare me a few minutes?
3630 2011-06-01 20:12:32 eoss has joined
3631 2011-06-01 20:13:04 sipa has joined
3632 2011-06-01 20:13:24 <naturalethic> phantomcircuit: is there a doc that describes the effect of doing so?
3633 2011-06-01 20:15:02 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
3634 2011-06-01 20:15:13 <gjs278> if you sent from both at the same time, you could mess up your send
3635 2011-06-01 20:15:19 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3636 2011-06-01 20:15:58 <phantomcircuit> naturalethic, the effect is that if you're poorly connected you might think you can send funds you dont have
3637 2011-06-01 20:16:39 <naturalethic> phantomcircuit: but ultimately the bitclient server will report the corrected balance, correct?
3638 2011-06-01 20:17:01 <gjs278> the two will have differing values
3639 2011-06-01 20:17:07 <gjs278> eventually it would correct
3640 2011-06-01 20:17:14 <phantomcircuit> naturalethic, yes eventually
3641 2011-06-01 20:17:14 <gjs278> to the transaction that actually went through
3642 2011-06-01 20:17:57 <naturalethic> perfect, thanks
3643 2011-06-01 20:18:31 <phantomcircuit> srsly though
3644 2011-06-01 20:18:33 <phantomcircuit> dont do dat
3645 2011-06-01 20:18:43 diki has joined
3646 2011-06-01 20:18:48 <diki> crytek failed with the new patch...
3647 2011-06-01 20:19:07 <phantomcircuit> need more works
3648 2011-06-01 20:19:08 <phantomcircuit> words
3649 2011-06-01 20:19:34 <diki> Lower FPS=Check, Minor fixes=Check, Black texture/shadows bug=Check
3650 2011-06-01 20:19:35 <naturalethic> phantomcircuit, as i said, it wouldn't be me but i can't prevent a user from doing it, and I need to know the effect in case I had to massage the data somehow
3651 2011-06-01 20:19:39 <diki> way to go with the new patch
3652 2011-06-01 20:20:13 C4away has left ("brb")
3653 2011-06-01 20:20:36 rene2000 has left ()
3654 2011-06-01 20:22:01 nixh4ck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3655 2011-06-01 20:22:20 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3656 2011-06-01 20:23:04 nixh4ck has joined
3657 2011-06-01 20:23:52 marlowe has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
3658 2011-06-01 20:23:59 <phantomcircuit> 7z e boost_1_46_1.7z
3659 2011-06-01 20:24:05 <phantomcircuit> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
3660 2011-06-01 20:24:26 qwebirc30465 has joined
3661 2011-06-01 20:25:06 <sipa> that initially looked like a large hexadecimal number
3662 2011-06-01 20:25:07 <gjs278> dude
3663 2011-06-01 20:25:09 <gjs278> don't do e
3664 2011-06-01 20:25:11 <gjs278> use x
3665 2011-06-01 20:25:19 <gjs278> x keeps the folders and stuff
3666 2011-06-01 20:25:23 <jrmithdobbs> that was his point
3667 2011-06-01 20:25:24 <jrmithdobbs> lol
3668 2011-06-01 20:25:31 Strom- has joined
3669 2011-06-01 20:25:32 <gjs278> I've never accidentally used e
3670 2011-06-01 20:25:34 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3671 2011-06-01 20:26:10 <gjs278> I need to mod my 7z to ask me again if I really meant -e
3672 2011-06-01 20:26:13 mpr has joined
3673 2011-06-01 20:26:13 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, i just took a cursory glance at the help
3674 2011-06-01 20:26:32 <phantomcircuit> saw extract
3675 2011-06-01 20:26:34 <phantomcircuit> and jsut did it
3676 2011-06-01 20:26:39 <phantomcircuit> instant fail
3677 2011-06-01 20:26:46 Strom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3678 2011-06-01 20:26:54 <darbsllim> MagicalTux are you around, I have a question about MtGox integration - we're having a problem with userssending money, we're getting an invalid error when they click send money
3679 2011-06-01 20:27:04 <jrmithdobbs> 7z just needs to die
3680 2011-06-01 20:27:22 <jrmithdobbs> if your platform doesn't have a tar variant it can diaf
3681 2011-06-01 20:27:25 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3682 2011-06-01 20:28:12 <gjs278> no
3683 2011-06-01 20:28:14 <gjs278> 7z is useful
3684 2011-06-01 20:28:18 <gjs278> because it handles rars
3685 2011-06-01 20:28:37 <gjs278> the default rar client doesn't thread
3686 2011-06-01 20:28:42 <diki> you can grab some tar frome here http://www.mustknowhow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/labrea-tar-bubble-photo.jpg
3687 2011-06-01 20:28:54 * gjs278 fires a rocket launcher at diki
3688 2011-06-01 20:28:57 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, 7z does multithreaded encode/decode?
3689 2011-06-01 20:28:59 <darbsllim> http://lts.cr/eal <--- anyone know why we'd be getting that error on Mt Gox when clicking Send BitCoins?
3690 2011-06-01 20:29:00 <gjs278> yes
3691 2011-06-01 20:29:01 <gjs278> it does
3692 2011-06-01 20:29:07 <phantomcircuit> hot shit
3693 2011-06-01 20:29:21 <gjs278> only for certain things though
3694 2011-06-01 20:29:28 <gjs278> rars, 7zs are covered
3695 2011-06-01 20:29:41 <gjs278> bzips to a point, but the multi bzip is faster
3696 2011-06-01 20:30:05 <phantomcircuit> it always irks me when they're single threaded
3697 2011-06-01 20:30:11 <phantomcircuit> they operate in blocks anyways
3698 2011-06-01 20:30:14 <phantomcircuit> it cant be that hard
3699 2011-06-01 20:31:13 <gjs278> it speeds up backups really well too when I do image dumps of my /
3700 2011-06-01 20:31:38 <darbsllim> who else besides MagicalTux can you contact about MtGox questions?
3701 2011-06-01 20:31:56 zhuzhuor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3702 2011-06-01 20:32:00 <gjs278> specific to programming not really anyone else
3703 2011-06-01 20:32:05 samfisher has quit (Quit: exit error code 434)
3704 2011-06-01 20:32:32 PoulGrym has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3705 2011-06-01 20:32:46 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3706 2011-06-01 20:33:08 <BlueMatt> darbsllim: if you send it to the mtgox email I think he has someone who helps him
3707 2011-06-01 20:33:09 <azoff_> hey guys, I started reading the source (as suggested) but it's been a while for me and cpp...
3708 2011-06-01 20:33:16 qwebirc30465 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3709 2011-06-01 20:33:19 <azoff_> I'm really just interested in the json rpc portion
3710 2011-06-01 20:33:33 <BlueMatt> ok so just read rpc.cpp?
3711 2011-06-01 20:33:38 bitcenter_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3712 2011-06-01 20:33:42 <azoff_> because I'm working on a Mt.Gox/ Wallet RPC front-end
3713 2011-06-01 20:33:43 <azoff_> ahh
3714 2011-06-01 20:33:46 <azoff_> bingo
3715 2011-06-01 20:34:05 <azoff_> BlueMatt: thanks
3716 2011-06-01 20:34:20 <azoff_> in case you are interested: https://github.com/azoff/btcpanel
3717 2011-06-01 20:34:20 zhuzhuor has joined
3718 2011-06-01 20:34:53 <azoff_> still very early, runs off of app-engine
3719 2011-06-01 20:35:32 <diki> Bluematt:when the ThreadRPCServer2 responds if the hash sent to it is valid and meets current diff target, has it already calculated the txid for it, or it will afterwards?
3720 2011-06-01 20:37:58 bk128 has joined
3721 2011-06-01 20:38:34 Teslah has joined
3722 2011-06-01 20:44:04 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3723 2011-06-01 20:44:29 <midnightmagic> is there a mailbox that satoshi might possibly read one day?
3724 2011-06-01 20:44:38 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, probably not
3725 2011-06-01 20:44:57 <midnightmagic> i thought he wrote to TD/gavin from time to time up until recently
3726 2011-06-01 20:45:31 <phantomcircuit> yes
3727 2011-06-01 20:45:37 <diki> and...whar does he think about what he created?
3728 2011-06-01 20:45:45 <diki> *what
3729 2011-06-01 20:46:01 <sipa> until some weeks/months ago
3730 2011-06-01 20:46:04 <coptic> hes rich now.. no time for email. too busy receiving blowjobs / teaching petit lap giraffe tricks
3731 2011-06-01 20:46:07 lumos has joined
3732 2011-06-01 20:46:30 <diki> how many coins did he gen?
3733 2011-06-01 20:46:37 EPiSKiNG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3734 2011-06-01 20:46:45 <coptic> probably a mil
3735 2011-06-01 20:46:55 <diki> well face it
3736 2011-06-01 20:47:01 <diki> he has only 8-9 million
3737 2011-06-01 20:47:24 <diki> that's not much
3738 2011-06-01 20:47:25 <phantomcircuit> diki, 8-9 million USD is a lot of money it isn't petit giraffes lot
3739 2011-06-01 20:47:32 <phantomcircuit> but it's definitely blow jobs and video games
3740 2011-06-01 20:47:39 <coptic> the interest alone, if placed in a govt-insured bank account, is around $630K a year
3741 2011-06-01 20:47:55 <diki> first he must exchange them though
3742 2011-06-01 20:48:00 eternal1 has joined
3743 2011-06-01 20:48:09 <coptic> or sell them privately to some investors
3744 2011-06-01 20:49:46 <diki> how can private can he get?
3745 2011-06-01 20:50:15 <phantomcircuit> wat
3746 2011-06-01 20:50:19 <diki> just say to 4chan you will give them a loli and watch how even what he eats get's found
3747 2011-06-01 20:51:06 <diki> well if he is actually japanese, then 2chan will do
3748 2011-06-01 20:51:10 <coptic> the eartly bitcoin barons have enough money so that they can watch a porn and find the girl in the porn and have sex w/her
3749 2011-06-01 20:51:10 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3750 2011-06-01 20:51:16 Marcel has joined
3751 2011-06-01 20:51:22 <diki> the names of em are?
3752 2011-06-01 20:53:05 sethsethseth_ has joined
3753 2011-06-01 20:53:28 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3754 2011-06-01 20:54:37 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3755 2011-06-01 20:56:11 andrew12 has joined
3756 2011-06-01 20:56:46 amiller has joined
3757 2011-06-01 20:59:40 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3758 2011-06-01 21:00:01 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3759 2011-06-01 21:01:35 EPiSKiNG has joined
3760 2011-06-01 21:02:40 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 290000 38.487
3761 2011-06-01 21:02:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 290000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 38.487, is 9 minutes and 30 seconds
3762 2011-06-01 21:03:39 <coptic> damn
3763 2011-06-01 21:03:44 <coptic> is that like 100 gpus
3764 2011-06-01 21:04:25 <diki> what is?
3765 2011-06-01 21:04:29 <jrmithdobbs> does anyone know if there's actually a real world (not theorhetical) deploy base of bitcoind on hp-ux/aix ?
3766 2011-06-01 21:04:47 gmod has joined
3767 2011-06-01 21:05:04 <jrmithdobbs> coptic: no that's like no difficulty
3768 2011-06-01 21:05:54 Fabianius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3769 2011-06-01 21:06:08 <Jesque> hi I'm with an investment club, we usually do penny shares
3770 2011-06-01 21:06:20 <Jesque> but were interested in setting up an exchange if its feasable?
3771 2011-06-01 21:06:43 <jgarzik> Jesque: as in, running a bitcoin exchange?
3772 2011-06-01 21:07:03 <Jesque> yeah
3773 2011-06-01 21:07:39 <jgarzik> Jesque: be prepared for a lot of paperwork. get to know acronyms KYC (know your client), AML (anti-money laundering), and various reporting regulations for your country and bank.
3774 2011-06-01 21:08:12 <Jesque> cant you just buy and sell bitcoins? :P
3775 2011-06-01 21:08:17 <jgarzik> Jesque: if you're in the US, you probably need a money transmitter license in multiple states
3776 2011-06-01 21:08:53 <jgarzik> Jesque: sure, you can buy and sell bitcoins yourself on a bitcoin exchange like mtgox or IRC channel #bitcoin-otc
3777 2011-06-01 21:09:08 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVMÂAVTEMÂCENSEOÂCVTTENBERCÂESSEÂDELENDVM)
3778 2011-06-01 21:09:20 <jgarzik> Jesque: _running_ a bitcoin exchange is a big undertaking, different from buying/selling as an investor
3779 2011-06-01 21:09:39 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, BWAHAHA I HAVE MY NATIVE COMPILER
3780 2011-06-01 21:09:41 <phantomcircuit> nice
3781 2011-06-01 21:10:13 dosmarder has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
3782 2011-06-01 21:10:30 pnicholson has joined
3783 2011-06-01 21:12:47 <phantomcircuit> lol it's 6 GB
3784 2011-06-01 21:13:05 bk128 has joined
3785 2011-06-01 21:13:29 superjaws has joined
3786 2011-06-01 21:13:42 <koolfy> hey
3787 2011-06-01 21:13:58 <koolfy> what's in the file addr.dat ?
3788 2011-06-01 21:14:06 <jrmithdobbs> addresses and related data
3789 2011-06-01 21:14:12 <jrmithdobbs> of the ip variety
3790 2011-06-01 21:14:23 <koolfy> so it should be backup'd with wallet.dat, right ?
3791 2011-06-01 21:15:07 <jrmithdobbs> not really
3792 2011-06-01 21:15:12 <jgarzik> koolfy: the only thing you _need_ to back up is wallet.dat.
3793 2011-06-01 21:15:33 <jgarzik> koolfy: and make sure you back up, each time you spend (send) bitcoins.
3794 2011-06-01 21:15:34 <koolfy> the generated/used bitcoin adresses are stored in wallet.dat ?
3795 2011-06-01 21:15:39 <sipa> yes
3796 2011-06-01 21:15:41 <jrmithdobbs> well, with current issues it'd be wise to backup the whole .bitcoin dir due to possibility of not being able to re-grab the blockchain and such if you start a completely new client
3797 2011-06-01 21:15:41 <jgarzik> yes
3798 2011-06-01 21:15:44 <koolfy> ok
3799 2011-06-01 21:15:47 <koolfy> so
3800 2011-06-01 21:15:54 <koolfy> let's say I have a bitcoin wallet
3801 2011-06-01 21:16:01 <koolfy> I create another
3802 2011-06-01 21:16:04 <koolfy> (on the same machine)
3803 2011-06-01 21:16:10 johnnympereira5 has joined
3804 2011-06-01 21:16:14 <coptic> hmmm
3805 2011-06-01 21:16:15 <koolfy> mv ~/.bitcoin .bitcoin2
3806 2011-06-01 21:16:21 <koolfy> launch it
3807 2011-06-01 21:16:25 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3808 2011-06-01 21:16:32 <koolfy> mv ~/.bitcoin .bitcoin3
3809 2011-06-01 21:17:01 <koolfy> move .bitcoin2 to .bitcoin to send to the new wallet the content of the wallet
3810 2011-06-01 21:17:09 <koolfy> (are you guys following me ? :p)
3811 2011-06-01 21:17:13 <sipa> sure, will work
3812 2011-06-01 21:17:24 <koolfy> that's not the question
3813 2011-06-01 21:17:29 <koolfy> I send the money
3814 2011-06-01 21:17:30 <sipa> then go on :)
3815 2011-06-01 21:17:31 <koolfy> then
3816 2011-06-01 21:17:37 <koolfy> 5s later
3817 2011-06-01 21:17:46 <koolfy> the software crashes.
3818 2011-06-01 21:17:51 <diki> if you want to double send, it cant happen
3819 2011-06-01 21:18:04 <koolfy> wait it's not over :)
3820 2011-06-01 21:18:13 <koolfy> so, I relaunch it
3821 2011-06-01 21:18:13 <edcba> how did it crash ?
3822 2011-06-01 21:18:17 Tritonio has joined
3823 2011-06-01 21:18:20 <sipa> ok
3824 2011-06-01 21:18:25 <koolfy> it shows a 0/unconfirmed transaction
3825 2011-06-01 21:18:51 <sipa> yes
3826 2011-06-01 21:18:51 <diki> has this happened or is this a theory?
3827 2011-06-01 21:18:59 <koolfy> (I may have left the software open when moving the .bitcoin directory 10-156s after doign the transaction :D)
3828 2011-06-01 21:19:04 <koolfy> happened
3829 2011-06-01 21:19:07 <koolfy> so
3830 2011-06-01 21:19:14 <edcba> so ?
3831 2011-06-01 21:19:16 <koolfy> I check the "new" account
3832 2011-06-01 21:19:17 <koolfy> it fetches every block
3833 2011-06-01 21:19:21 <diki> i believe currently it sucks to be you ;)
3834 2011-06-01 21:19:25 <koolfy> it shows no trace of any transaction
3835 2011-06-01 21:19:36 <sipa> is the transaction to be found in blockexplorer?
3836 2011-06-01 21:19:39 <koolfy> the old one shows 0/unconfirmed
3837 2011-06-01 21:19:42 <edcba> maybe wait so the client resend the tx
3838 2011-06-01 21:19:47 <koolfy> about 15 blocks were minded since then
3839 2011-06-01 21:19:55 <edcba> mint ?
3840 2011-06-01 21:19:56 Wisdom` has joined
3841 2011-06-01 21:19:58 <sipa> ok, is it on bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin ?
3842 2011-06-01 21:20:09 <koolfy> that's the question, will it send the tx again ?
3843 2011-06-01 21:20:13 <sipa> it will
3844 2011-06-01 21:20:15 <edcba> i think
3845 2011-06-01 21:20:17 <sipa> but infrequently
3846 2011-06-01 21:20:24 <sipa> it may take half an hour
3847 2011-06-01 21:20:49 <sipa> or more, i don't remember the exact formula
3848 2011-06-01 21:20:53 <koolfy> checking on bitcoincharts
3849 2011-06-01 21:20:56 <koolfy> w8
3850 2011-06-01 21:21:08 <koolfy> it's not there
3851 2011-06-01 21:21:30 <koolfy> nothing looks corrupted
3852 2011-06-01 21:21:38 <sipa> ok, i suppose it just never got sent
3853 2011-06-01 21:21:43 <koolfy> the only problem seems to be that there is no trace of the transaction being sent to anyone
3854 2011-06-01 21:21:45 <koolfy> yep
3855 2011-06-01 21:22:03 <sipa> it will resend within at most 1 block + half an hour
3856 2011-06-01 21:22:15 <koolfy> 'kay
3857 2011-06-01 21:22:16 Jesque has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
3858 2011-06-01 21:22:27 <koolfy> so the best thing to do now is to leave the old (sending) wallet running
3859 2011-06-01 21:22:31 <sipa> indeed
3860 2011-06-01 21:22:55 <koolfy> how much time after the tx is sent, does it appear on bitcoincharts ?
3861 2011-06-01 21:23:05 <sipa> immediately, if it is relayed
3862 2011-06-01 21:23:26 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3863 2011-06-01 21:23:33 <sipa> (and it should be)
3864 2011-06-01 21:23:36 <koolfy> (also to find it, I should ctrl+f the receiving adress, right ? is there is noresult I can assume it's not in the list ?)
3865 2011-06-01 21:23:39 <koolfy> ok
3866 2011-06-01 21:23:41 <sipa> yes
3867 2011-06-01 21:23:47 <sipa> just search for your address there
3868 2011-06-01 21:23:53 <koolfy> k :)
3869 2011-06-01 21:23:54 scottj has joined
3870 2011-06-01 21:23:57 <sipa> if within an hour it's still neither on blockexplorer or bitcoincharts, there is a larger problem
3871 2011-06-01 21:24:04 <sipa> but so far, no reason to assume that
3872 2011-06-01 21:24:17 <coptic> do you have the coins
3873 2011-06-01 21:24:23 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, any chance of ipv6 on autovps.net?
3874 2011-06-01 21:24:23 JackRabiit has joined
3875 2011-06-01 21:24:30 Moonies has joined
3876 2011-06-01 21:24:31 ar4s has joined
3877 2011-06-01 21:24:35 npouillard has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3878 2011-06-01 21:24:56 pecket has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3879 2011-06-01 21:24:59 <koolfy> I did have the coins in the wallet, and now it shows 0.0 in the balance (as it should, I sent the whole content)
3880 2011-06-01 21:25:20 <koolfy> sipa: what might be the worst case ?
3881 2011-06-01 21:25:33 <koolfy> that my old wallet *thinks* the last translation was sent, but it was not
3882 2011-06-01 21:25:43 peck has joined
3883 2011-06-01 21:25:45 <koolfy> and there fore things the coins are spent when they aren't
3884 2011-06-01 21:25:54 <koolfy> is there any way to make it see that the translation never happenned ?
3885 2011-06-01 21:26:27 <koolfy> thinks*
3886 2011-06-01 21:26:37 <sipa> that doesn't matter really
3887 2011-06-01 21:26:39 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3888 2011-06-01 21:26:42 <sipa> it will keep resending anyway
3889 2011-06-01 21:26:45 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3890 2011-06-01 21:26:49 Teslah has joined
3891 2011-06-01 21:26:53 <koolfy> ok
3892 2011-06-01 21:26:58 JackRabiit has left ()
3893 2011-06-01 21:27:16 vigilyn has joined
3894 2011-06-01 21:27:31 <koolfy> what does it look like i nthe log file ? (the sending of the tx)
3895 2011-06-01 21:28:07 gmod is now known as Astriks
3896 2011-06-01 21:28:24 skeledrew has joined
3897 2011-06-01 21:28:30 <koolfy> ie what should I grep ? :)
3898 2011-06-01 21:28:36 kermit has joined
3899 2011-06-01 21:29:05 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3900 2011-06-01 21:30:04 <koolfy> sending: inv (37 bytes) ?
3901 2011-06-01 21:30:31 <sipa> no, that's the general announcement of new transactions or blocks
3902 2011-06-01 21:30:38 <sipa> not necessarily your own
3903 2011-06-01 21:30:40 Marcel has joined
3904 2011-06-01 21:30:41 <sipa> look for 'create'
3905 2011-06-01 21:30:47 <koolfy> ok
3906 2011-06-01 21:31:14 <koolfy> koolfy@dotk ~/.bitcoin $ cat debug.log | grep create
3907 2011-06-01 21:31:16 <koolfy> IRC :pelican.heliacal.net 003 x609540956 :This server was created May 26 2011 at 22:28:50
3908 2011-06-01 21:31:20 <koolfy> that's all
3909 2011-06-01 21:31:24 <sipa> hmmm
3910 2011-06-01 21:31:24 kermit has quit (Client Quit)
3911 2011-06-01 21:31:28 <koolfy> so it didn't send it yet :)
3912 2011-06-01 21:31:36 <koolfy> so wait & see
3913 2011-06-01 21:31:40 <koolfy> and don't panic :)
3914 2011-06-01 21:31:46 <sipa> use grep -i
3915 2011-06-01 21:32:15 <sipa> oh
3916 2011-06-01 21:32:20 <sipa> CommitTransaction
3917 2011-06-01 21:32:22 <koolfy> same thing
3918 2011-06-01 21:32:23 Netsniper has joined
3919 2011-06-01 21:32:26 <koolfy> oh okay
3920 2011-06-01 21:32:36 kermit has joined
3921 2011-06-01 21:32:48 <koolfy> nothing
3922 2011-06-01 21:33:00 <koolfy> also
3923 2011-06-01 21:33:06 <koolfy> on the "new" wallet
3924 2011-06-01 21:33:12 <koolfy> I get like 117 connections
3925 2011-06-01 21:33:15 <koolfy> on the old, I never get over 10
3926 2011-06-01 21:33:40 glicth-mod has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3927 2011-06-01 21:33:42 <sipa> it's kinda random, depending on who you connected to first
3928 2011-06-01 21:34:14 <koolfy> so what's addr.dat used for actyally ?
3929 2011-06-01 21:34:17 <koolfy> it stores ip adresses ? of what ? what for ?
3930 2011-06-01 21:35:12 <sipa> ip addresses of known nodes
3931 2011-06-01 21:35:32 <koolfy> so if I rm that, it will look for new nodes ?
3932 2011-06-01 21:36:10 psymin has joined
3933 2011-06-01 21:36:22 <sipa> it always looks for new nodes
3934 2011-06-01 21:36:30 <koolfy> ok
3935 2011-06-01 21:36:49 eternal1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3936 2011-06-01 21:36:51 <sipa> also
3937 2011-06-01 21:36:54 <sipa> which version?
3938 2011-06-01 21:37:04 <sipa> i don't like crashes when sending
3939 2011-06-01 21:37:08 <koolfy> .20.2
3940 2011-06-01 21:37:18 <koolfy> I should upgrade but I want to get rid of this annoyance first :)
3941 2011-06-01 21:37:33 eternal1 has joined
3942 2011-06-01 21:38:32 <koolfy> yeaaah
3943 2011-06-01 21:38:35 soossii has joined
3944 2011-06-01 21:38:38 <koolfy> it's shown in bitcoincharts
3945 2011-06-01 21:38:42 <sipa> ok, good
3946 2011-06-01 21:39:06 <koolfy> but a grep -i commit i nthe log file does not give any results
3947 2011-06-01 21:39:10 <koolfy> wrong keyword ? :/
3948 2011-06-01 21:39:25 <diki> i found a block at 1306963505, but it eas inserted in mysql at 1306963592 i.e 87 seconds late
3949 2011-06-01 21:39:28 <diki> *later
3950 2011-06-01 21:39:31 Mononofu has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3951 2011-06-01 21:39:39 <diki> that is quite the lag behind...
3952 2011-06-01 21:39:48 <diki> *was
3953 2011-06-01 21:40:06 eternal1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3954 2011-06-01 21:40:34 <diki> sipa
3955 2011-06-01 21:41:22 superjaws has left ()
3956 2011-06-01 21:42:15 eternal1 has joined
3957 2011-06-01 21:43:24 <diki> A small on-topic offtopic. Somehow time is being inserted in mysql now, but the lag between the found block and the submission to mysql is horrible.
3958 2011-06-01 21:44:14 barcc has joined
3959 2011-06-01 21:44:19 <sipa> you can still search for 'SelectCoins'
3960 2011-06-01 21:44:32 <koolfy> k
3961 2011-06-01 21:44:51 sethsethseth__ has joined
3962 2011-06-01 21:45:40 <diki> sipa:is the txid calculated before threadrpcserver2 sends a response if the share matches the current diff target?
3963 2011-06-01 21:45:45 <sipa> BlueMatt: i made a pull req for walletclass
3964 2011-06-01 21:46:02 sethsethseth___ has joined
3965 2011-06-01 21:47:05 gruez has joined
3966 2011-06-01 21:47:37 sethsethseth_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3967 2011-06-01 21:47:53 <koolfy> is there a limit of transactions that you can put int oa block ?
3968 2011-06-01 21:48:28 <sipa> only by size
3969 2011-06-01 21:49:01 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3970 2011-06-01 21:49:25 sethsethseth__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3971 2011-06-01 21:49:38 <koolfy> ok
3972 2011-06-01 21:49:44 johnnympereira5 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3973 2011-06-01 21:49:47 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3974 2011-06-01 21:49:51 <BlueMatt> sipa: nice...imo thats first to be pulled for 0.4.0, but that is up to jgarzik
3975 2011-06-01 21:49:55 wolfspraul has joined
3976 2011-06-01 21:51:22 <jgarzik> up to the community :)
3977 2011-06-01 21:51:31 RinzeWind has joined
3978 2011-06-01 21:51:49 <jgarzik> I'm just playing the role of 0.3.22 Release Hammer^H^H^HManager while Gavin vacations.
3979 2011-06-01 21:52:09 <andrew12> HamManager?
3980 2011-06-01 21:52:10 <diki> Also why is this *parg not declared anywhere?
3981 2011-06-01 21:52:18 cacheson has joined
3982 2011-06-01 21:52:18 <diki> i see only pointers to it, but it's not set anywhere
3983 2011-06-01 21:52:25 <BlueMatt> andrew12: hammer (backspace)(backspace)(backspace)manager
3984 2011-06-01 21:52:31 <sipa> andrew12: jgarzik uses uberbackspaces, which count double
3985 2011-06-01 21:52:37 <andrew12> lol
3986 2011-06-01 21:52:47 <jgarzik> heh
3987 2011-06-01 21:52:58 <jgarzik> i am a ham
3988 2011-06-01 21:52:59 <andrew12> BlueMatt: i know what ^H is
3989 2011-06-01 21:53:02 <diki> will someone answer or not?
3990 2011-06-01 21:53:24 <andrew12> could just use ^W ;)
3991 2011-06-01 21:53:31 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3992 2011-06-01 21:54:16 * diki feels ignored...
3993 2011-06-01 21:55:20 gruez has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3994 2011-06-01 21:56:59 RinzeWind has quit (Changing host)
3995 2011-06-01 21:56:59 RinzeWind has joined
3996 2011-06-01 21:57:00 Blue_Helix has joined
3997 2011-06-01 21:57:35 <koolfy> sipa: thank you, my transactions is being confirmed (at 1 right now), so I didn't lose my 100+ bitcoins :D
3998 2011-06-01 21:59:25 intelmeth has quit (Quit: intelmeth)
3999 2011-06-01 21:59:26 LightRider has joined
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4001 2011-06-01 21:59:35 RinzeWind has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
4002 2011-06-01 21:59:36 chema__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4003 2011-06-01 21:59:44 sethsethseth___ has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
4004 2011-06-01 21:59:50 RinzeWind has joined
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4006 2011-06-01 22:01:46 <ar4s> Can anyone advise, at bitcoin gains in popularity and the network grows, will it adversely affect the processing time of going from unconfirmed, to confirmed?
4007 2011-06-01 22:02:29 has joined
4008 2011-06-01 22:02:54 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-252-23-202.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Guest71039
4009 2011-06-01 22:04:54 bitcoiner has joined
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4011 2011-06-01 22:08:26 <diki> what the...when did we hit 4 ghash/s again?
4012 2011-06-01 22:08:41 <diki> ;;bc,stats
4013 2011-06-01 22:08:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 128036 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 987 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 22 hours, 34 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 506468.43162644
4014 2011-06-01 22:10:21 agricocb has joined
4015 2011-06-01 22:10:33 <midnightmagic> we're not at 4th/s: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png
4016 2011-06-01 22:10:47 <sipa> ;;bc,nethash
4017 2011-06-01 22:10:55 <gribble> 3723.7952257837355
4018 2011-06-01 22:11:10 <forrestv> i'm writing a python script to simulate a large network of miners to test things like fairness of pools, pool hopping strategies, and pool hopping-prevention strategies
4019 2011-06-01 22:11:38 <midnightmagic> i wonder how it's calculating it.
4020 2011-06-01 22:11:50 <forrestv> currently i'm having a problem where it's showing that the average payout/hash is less for solo mining than for pools
4021 2011-06-01 22:12:07 <midnightmagic> huh. the irc network might be down..?
4022 2011-06-01 22:12:12 <forrestv> anybody want to take a look? http://im.forre.st/pb/24516173.txt
4023 2011-06-01 22:13:11 <diki> ca
4024 2011-06-01 22:13:25 <diki> scratch what i wrote ^
4025 2011-06-01 22:13:37 <diki> EvilMiner sounds very....evil >:]
4026 2011-06-01 22:13:56 <forrestv> they are! :p
4027 2011-06-01 22:14:15 <BlueMatt> sipa: I think Im gonna open a pull request to see if I can get some more comments on the fee message cleaner and controller as no one has commented on the forum topic
4028 2011-06-01 22:14:30 RinzeWind has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
4029 2011-06-01 22:14:31 <BlueMatt> (not that a pull request helps but...)
4030 2011-06-01 22:16:09 <sipa> wait, i'll get you a comment :)
4031 2011-06-01 22:17:57 <naturalethic> does the 'move' api create a new transaction?
4032 2011-06-01 22:18:05 <sipa> no
4033 2011-06-01 22:18:08 <forrestv> naturalethic, no
4034 2011-06-01 22:18:12 <sipa> it's just an accounting thing
4035 2011-06-01 22:18:31 <diki> can someone explain this part?
4036 2011-06-01 22:18:31 <diki> (*(*mi).second)(params, false);
4037 2011-06-01 22:18:43 <diki> why all the pointers and to what? never read anything like that before
4038 2011-06-01 22:18:47 <naturalethic> hmm.. i figured the account amount would be the sum of all transactions associated with it
4039 2011-06-01 22:19:14 <sipa> yes, + move actions :)
4040 2011-06-01 22:19:48 <sipa> accounts are almost completely independent from the addresses the funds are last sent to
4041 2011-06-01 22:19:57 <sipa> so they're really just virtual balances
4042 2011-06-01 22:20:01 benno2 has joined
4043 2011-06-01 22:20:15 <naturalethic> ok
4044 2011-06-01 22:20:39 <forrestv> diki, gets the current item pointed to by iterator 'mi', which is a pair of rpc_method_name -> rpc_function
4045 2011-06-01 22:20:58 vigilyn has quit (Quit: ircN 8.00 for mIRC (20100904) - www.ircN.org)
4046 2011-06-01 22:21:03 <forrestv> then calls it?
4047 2011-06-01 22:22:05 <naturalethic> i will have to keep my own records on move actions then i presume
4048 2011-06-01 22:22:38 <benno2> Hi, I was wondering if is is necessary that the bitcoin client flushes data continuously to disk.I think it could reduce the life of the disk compared to typical desktop usage.What are potential disadvantages of allowing the user to disable disk flushing?eg in case of a power failure what is the worst that could happen with the data?
4049 2011-06-01 22:23:14 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
4050 2011-06-01 22:23:52 <naturalethic> hmm i'm leaning towards not using bitcoin's accounts at all
4051 2011-06-01 22:24:33 Rolz73 has joined
4052 2011-06-01 22:24:39 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, well in that case Ill just pull req it
4053 2011-06-01 22:25:21 <BlueMatt> plus its nothing too intrusive so I just want to get it in...
4054 2011-06-01 22:26:25 <sipa> BlueMatt: i haven't looked at the code yet, by the way
4055 2011-06-01 22:26:34 <BlueMatt> didnt think you had ;)
4056 2011-06-01 22:27:07 <BlueMatt> I think tomorrow Im gonna go through all pull reqs and comment and ack/nack, if you have time soon we need to decide on what makes 0.4.0 and what doesnt
4057 2011-06-01 22:30:36 Netsniper has joined
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4059 2011-06-01 22:31:38 Sedra has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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4072 2011-06-01 22:38:25 <phantomcircuit> !seen MagicalTux
4073 2011-06-01 22:38:27 intelmeth has joined
4074 2011-06-01 22:38:39 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, pm?
4075 2011-06-01 22:38:40 <BlueMatt> ;;seen MagicalTux
4076 2011-06-01 22:38:41 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 23 hours, 47 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> darbsllim: about 1 hour
4077 2011-06-01 22:38:48 <phantomcircuit> ah
4078 2011-06-01 22:38:51 <phantomcircuit> nvm then
4079 2011-06-01 22:40:19 <ne0futur> ;;seen MT`AwAy
4080 2011-06-01 22:40:20 <gribble> MT`AwAy was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 8 hours, 26 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <MT`AwAy> .19 is probably not an option, unless I can get it to handle sub-cent and put the appropriate fees
4081 2011-06-01 22:40:51 amiller has joined
4082 2011-06-01 22:40:56 darrob has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4083 2011-06-01 22:40:58 x6763 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4084 2011-06-01 22:41:53 x6763 has joined
4085 2011-06-01 22:42:04 <diki> ;;seen diki
4086 2011-06-01 22:42:04 <gribble> diki was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 23 minutes and 21 seconds ago: <diki> why all the pointers and to what? never read anything like that before
4087 2011-06-01 22:42:27 <diki> ;;seen diki /'
4088 2011-06-01 22:42:27 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
4089 2011-06-01 22:43:02 <diki> ;;seen diki \¿'
4090 2011-06-01 22:43:02 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
4091 2011-06-01 22:43:07 <jgarzik> hmmm
4092 2011-06-01 22:43:18 * jgarzik ponders an 'ultrapeer' flag, exported to network clients
4093 2011-06-01 22:43:21 normanrichards has joined
4094 2011-06-01 22:43:22 <hybriz_> lol
4095 2011-06-01 22:43:32 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: for what purpose?
4096 2011-06-01 22:43:37 <hybriz_> ;;seen diki h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h%h
4097 2011-06-01 22:43:40 darrob has joined
4098 2011-06-01 22:43:46 <hybriz_> ;;seen diki
4099 2011-06-01 22:43:48 pusle has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4100 2011-06-01 22:43:48 <gribble> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
4101 2011-06-01 22:43:50 <gribble> diki was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 43 seconds ago: <diki> ;;seen diki \¿'
4102 2011-06-01 22:43:56 <iz> use %n
4103 2011-06-01 22:44:06 <hybriz_> ;;seen *
4104 2011-06-01 22:44:07 <gribble> * could be iz (10 seconds ago), <last> (10 seconds ago), hybriz_ (20 seconds ago), BlueMatt (34 seconds ago), jgarzik (47 seconds ago), diki (1 minute and 4 seconds ago), ne0futur (3 minutes and 46 seconds ago), phantomcircuit (5 minutes and 14 seconds ago), sipa (17 minutes and 40 seconds ago), naturalethic (20 minutes and 13 seconds ago), benno2 (21 minutes and 27 seconds ago), forrestv (50 more messages)
4105 2011-06-01 22:44:14 zertam has quit (Quit: zertam)
4106 2011-06-01 22:44:23 <hybriz_> ;;seen n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n
4107 2011-06-01 22:44:24 <gribble> I have not seen n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n%n.
4108 2011-06-01 22:44:26 <BlueMatt> stop trying to hack gribble
4109 2011-06-01 22:44:27 <hybriz_> :p
4110 2011-06-01 22:44:29 <hybriz_> no fmt ;)
4111 2011-06-01 22:44:35 <hybriz_> 1 more
4112 2011-06-01 22:44:41 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it could control advertising of your address. gnutella works like this, IIRC: start out in leaf mode, and transition to ultrapeer mode after (a) time passes and (b) you receive incoming connections. Impatient users can always force ultrapeer mode.
4113 2011-06-01 22:44:45 <hybriz_> ;;seen s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s
4114 2011-06-01 22:44:46 <gribble> I have not seen s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s%s.
4115 2011-06-01 22:44:48 <hybriz_> k
4116 2011-06-01 22:44:55 <hybriz_> notice the diferente answers from %h
4117 2011-06-01 22:44:56 <hybriz_> lol
4118 2011-06-01 22:45:04 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: I agree, but that is more geared towards thin-clients and full block clients
4119 2011-06-01 22:45:04 <sipa> jgarzik: that may be useful
4120 2011-06-01 22:45:11 <iz> what is %h?
4121 2011-06-01 22:45:15 _Netsni3 has joined
4122 2011-06-01 22:45:19 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it immediately cuts down on leaf node spam
4123 2011-06-01 22:45:24 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the problem being discussed
4124 2011-06-01 22:45:38 <BlueMatt> (additionally, gnutella does sanity checks on uptime, network speed, etc)
4125 2011-06-01 22:45:41 <BlueMatt> iirc
4126 2011-06-01 22:45:47 <jgarzik> yep
4127 2011-06-01 22:46:29 <BlueMatt> supernode being the flags of old clients and leafnodes being the flags specific to new clients + thin clients?
4128 2011-06-01 22:46:56 <jgarzik> yeah old clients are supernodes
4129 2011-06-01 22:46:59 <BlueMatt> I agree, good chance to get the flags and net ready for thin clients even if we dont have thin clients, and it could serve to fix slow startup time
4130 2011-06-01 22:47:23 <hybriz_> iz hex
4131 2011-06-01 22:47:28 intelmeth has quit (Quit: intelmeth)
4132 2011-06-01 22:47:29 <hybriz_> like %x
4133 2011-06-01 22:47:30 <hybriz_> i think
4134 2011-06-01 22:47:38 <jgarzik> not necessarily "thin" client -- if you're firewalled, and just going to connect, check for TX's, and disconnect, there's no point in advertising your own address
4135 2011-06-01 22:47:42 <jgarzik> it applies to fat clients too
4136 2011-06-01 22:47:46 <hybriz_> when i xploited format string before it was "extint" i used always %h
4137 2011-06-01 22:47:50 <sipa> are old clients necessarily supernodes?
4138 2011-06-01 22:47:54 <jgarzik> sipa: yes
4139 2011-06-01 22:47:55 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well yes, but it applies to all leaf nodes
4140 2011-06-01 22:48:02 james4k has joined
4141 2011-06-01 22:48:05 <BlueMatt> sipa: best way to keep backward compat
4142 2011-06-01 22:48:19 _Netsniper_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4143 2011-06-01 22:48:39 <gmaxwell> It would make sense for nodes to measure their own uptime and not advertise unless they are "mostly up" (or some other threshold)
4144 2011-06-01 22:48:56 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yep, thats what he said
4145 2011-06-01 22:49:01 <gmaxwell> sorry, resyncing.
4146 2011-06-01 22:49:07 qwebirc63485 has joined
4147 2011-06-01 22:49:15 <gmaxwell> (LIFO on IRC is sometimes badâ¦)
4148 2011-06-01 22:50:42 <gmaxwell> I bludgenoned jrmithdobbs earlier into looking to making some smarter advertising decisions. E.g. don't advertise if you're connecting out on 1918 source addresses and don't have UPNP or haven't been told otherwise.
4149 2011-06-01 22:51:36 <sipa> depends, if you want to make supernode == advertised node, then you need old clients to be identified as supernodes indeed
4150 2011-06-01 22:52:20 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
4151 2011-06-01 22:52:55 wolfspraul has joined
4152 2011-06-01 22:53:02 <iz> hybriz_: nah, %h can be a prefix for a short, but it's nothing by itself.. thought maybe it was something else besides a fmt string you were trying
4153 2011-06-01 22:53:14 <BlueMatt> here is how I see this playing out: leaf nodes == thin clients or clients who do not want incoming connections. These clients should not connect to each other and should not relay transactions as they are unable to check them and ddos and the like. supernodes == classic nodes == full chain nodes == miners these nodes act as normal
4154 2011-06-01 22:54:00 <hybriz_> yeah its short
4155 2011-06-01 22:54:14 <hybriz_> oh well its been a long time :p almost 10 years since my first fmt string xploit
4156 2011-06-01 22:55:54 qwebirc63485 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4157 2011-06-01 22:56:13 noagendamarket has joined
4158 2011-06-01 22:56:22 npouillard has joined
4159 2011-06-01 22:56:26 <iz> yeah, well.. they aren't so common anymore.. pretty easy to scan for them..
4160 2011-06-01 22:56:59 <devon_hillard> how do you move sums around $10K out of BTC?
4161 2011-06-01 22:57:29 <devon_hillard> $10K-$100K
4162 2011-06-01 22:57:42 <iera> mtgox dark pool?
4163 2011-06-01 22:58:19 <devon_hillard> I mean, how do you convert from BTC to $ when we're talking about larger sums
4164 2011-06-01 22:58:32 <devon_hillard> something small, up to $1K may work with paypal
4165 2011-06-01 22:58:41 cacheson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4166 2011-06-01 22:58:42 <devon_hillard> in several transactions
4167 2011-06-01 22:59:11 <hybriz_> you get mtgox to send you the money to bank accuont
4168 2011-06-01 22:59:17 cacheson has joined
4169 2011-06-01 22:59:59 <devon_hillard> I thought only Liberty Reserve worked
4170 2011-06-01 23:00:48 <devon_hillard> still, I'd be apprehensive of trying to move stuff from LR into a bank account
4171 2011-06-01 23:01:03 <hybriz_> i never used LR :7
4172 2011-06-01 23:01:11 <hybriz_> i dont trust that kind of system
4173 2011-06-01 23:01:24 <hybriz_> when i have large sums at mtgox, i'll use SEPA transfer
4174 2011-06-01 23:01:30 <hybriz_> though USD->EUR sucks right now :(
4175 2011-06-01 23:01:38 EPiSKiNG has quit ()
4176 2011-06-01 23:02:16 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: imo, there is already that flag...just unset NODE_NETWORK and nServices = 0 then you wont get connections...
4177 2011-06-01 23:02:22 <BlueMatt> just mark yourself a client
4178 2011-06-01 23:02:33 kish is now known as oracle
4179 2011-06-01 23:02:50 oracle is now known as kidh
4180 2011-06-01 23:02:52 kidh is now known as kish
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4183 2011-06-01 23:04:10 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-240-194-29.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Guest21910
4184 2011-06-01 23:05:41 darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4185 2011-06-01 23:05:42 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, does that actually work? i dont think it will
4186 2011-06-01 23:05:49 darbsllim has joined
4187 2011-06-01 23:05:51 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: absolutely
4188 2011-06-01 23:06:01 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: it has been in there designed by satoshi for some time now
4189 2011-06-01 23:06:29 <sipa> NODE_NETWORK is about whether you are able to provide the block chain or not, i thought
4190 2011-06-01 23:06:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: well it can be used that way
4191 2011-06-01 23:06:46 fasdfafsdf has joined
4192 2011-06-01 23:06:47 <BlueMatt> it is used to set node->fClient
4193 2011-06-01 23:06:56 <sipa> which, if you are a full node behind a NAT, connecting to others, is still a differnt situation than being a lightweight node
4194 2011-06-01 23:06:57 <BlueMatt> and if you dont want to serve the chain, you are fClient
4195 2011-06-01 23:06:59 _Netsni3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4196 2011-06-01 23:07:09 psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4197 2011-06-01 23:07:14 <BlueMatt> true, but imo the end result is the same?
4198 2011-06-01 23:07:35 <sipa> well, you may well connect to many other nodes, and be willing to serve the chain
4199 2011-06-01 23:07:40 <sipa> while not being reachable
4200 2011-06-01 23:07:52 <sipa> from the outside, so your address shouldn't be passed around
4201 2011-06-01 23:08:14 <BlueMatt> problem with that is old nodes will still pass your address around
4202 2011-06-01 23:08:26 fasdfafsdf has quit (Client Quit)
4203 2011-06-01 23:08:30 <gmaxwell> e.g. for example a node inside tor could still provide a lot of useful connectivity, but you can't connect to it (currently)
4204 2011-06-01 23:08:41 <BlueMatt> although...dont nodes pass the services flags with the address?
4205 2011-06-01 23:08:47 <BlueMatt> meaning new nodes could still easily ignore that
4206 2011-06-01 23:08:59 <sipa> indeed, services are passed along as well
4207 2011-06-01 23:09:07 <sipa> i think
4208 2011-06-01 23:09:15 <BlueMatt> yes, they are Im sure
4209 2011-06-01 23:09:21 Toba has left ()
4210 2011-06-01 23:09:32 <BlueMatt> ok, then you could do a second flag for it and old noes will still try to connect to you but new nodes will ignore you properly
4211 2011-06-01 23:09:39 <sipa> exactly
4212 2011-06-01 23:09:47 <BlueMatt> ok, sorry for being thick
4213 2011-06-01 23:10:16 <sipa> i don't mind discussing things :)
4214 2011-06-01 23:10:21 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: so why should clients which validate the full chain but don't want incoming connections not forward transactions?
4215 2011-06-01 23:10:38 <gmaxwell> oh dur okay, you're agreeing to a new flag.
4216 2011-06-01 23:10:43 m00p has joined
4217 2011-06-01 23:10:44 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well I was thinking more leafnode style in the gnutella sense
4218 2011-06-01 23:10:54 <BlueMatt> where lefenodes dont have the bw or resources to do anything heave
4219 2011-06-01 23:10:58 <BlueMatt> heavy*
4220 2011-06-01 23:11:02 <BlueMatt> hence they remain leaf nodes
4221 2011-06-01 23:11:15 <BlueMatt> but I suppose in this case we havent implemented the non-heavy mode yet...
4222 2011-06-01 23:11:28 <lebish> what math function is ** referencing in the difficulty calculator?
4223 2011-06-01 23:11:31 <BlueMatt> so I suppose it be better to do it as originally suggested
4224 2011-06-01 23:11:35 <lebish> ie: difficulty * 2**32 / hashrate
4225 2011-06-01 23:11:36 <sipa> lebish: exponentiation
4226 2011-06-01 23:11:44 <sipa> ;;calc 2**32
4227 2011-06-01 23:11:44 <gribble> 2 ** 32 = 4,294,967,296
4228 2011-06-01 23:11:46 <lebish> i tried that and i'm getting really weird answers
4229 2011-06-01 23:11:47 sanjor has joined
4230 2011-06-01 23:11:56 <gmaxwell> Yes⦠and there is currently no problem in providing enough resources on hosts that don't listen. (bitcoin doesn't yet need unusually beefy hardware to be a full node)
4231 2011-06-01 23:12:08 <BlueMatt> yep
4232 2011-06-01 23:12:17 <sanjor> hi
4233 2011-06-01 23:12:18 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: you gonna do it?
4234 2011-06-01 23:12:25 <sanjor> has anyone noticed their rpc interface getting progressively slower to respond? on squeeze...
4235 2011-06-01 23:12:35 <sanjor> is this a known bug?
4236 2011-06-01 23:12:43 <BlueMatt> nope
4237 2011-06-01 23:12:54 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, lol i tried to use the non monolithic wx, bad call
4238 2011-06-01 23:13:00 <sipa> sanjor: what kind of calls are you doing?
4239 2011-06-01 23:13:03 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yea that wont work
4240 2011-06-01 23:13:12 npouillard has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
4241 2011-06-01 23:13:32 <sanjor> every call but lets say authenticating with curl
4242 2011-06-01 23:13:32 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, well it will i just need to bundle the dlls
4243 2011-06-01 23:13:36 <phantomcircuit> and fuck that
4244 2011-06-01 23:14:00 <sanjor> it starting off taking 10 seconds... then it took 30 mins!!
4245 2011-06-01 23:14:01 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: seriously you are compiling wrong, I have never seen a problem repeatedly compiling wx in gitian in a kvm with 2g ram
4246 2011-06-01 23:14:10 Astriks is now known as CapObvious
4247 2011-06-01 23:14:14 falafell has joined
4248 2011-06-01 23:14:20 eoss has joined
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4250 2011-06-01 23:14:26 <sanjor> sipa: what could cause that?
4251 2011-06-01 23:14:32 CapObvious is now known as SirObvious
4252 2011-06-01 23:14:47 <sanjor> im using bitcoind
4253 2011-06-01 23:15:10 <sipa> if you have an rpc call taking 30 minutes, there is most definitely a problem
4254 2011-06-01 23:15:45 <sanjor> i wouldnt have believed it if it hadnt happened to me
4255 2011-06-01 23:15:54 <sipa> which version are you using?
4256 2011-06-01 23:16:17 <sanjor> the one in squeeze... hold on
4257 2011-06-01 23:16:33 <sipa> 0.3.19 ?
4258 2011-06-01 23:16:55 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, ./configure --host=i686-pc-mingw32 --build=x86_64-linux --enable-monolithic && make -j4
4259 2011-06-01 23:17:35 <gjs278> that never ever works for me
4260 2011-06-01 23:17:36 * diki must make Checkwork return a struct to getwork, where that struct is parsed and one of the variables in the struct is a pointer which get's passed to JSONRPCReply
4261 2011-06-01 23:17:39 <gjs278> oh
4262 2011-06-01 23:17:39 <sanjor> 0.3.20.2~dfsg-2~bpo60+1
4263 2011-06-01 23:17:51 <gjs278> I thought you were crossing into windows
4264 2011-06-01 23:18:04 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, i am
4265 2011-06-01 23:18:07 <gjs278> wow
4266 2011-06-01 23:18:09 <gjs278> and that actually works?
4267 2011-06-01 23:18:15 <phantomcircuit> so far no
4268 2011-06-01 23:18:18 <gjs278> lol
4269 2011-06-01 23:18:18 <phantomcircuit> but it will!
4270 2011-06-01 23:19:01 <sipa> sanjor: could be that 0.3.21 had some locking-issues fixed, so you should certainly try with the latest version
4271 2011-06-01 23:19:10 <phantomcircuit> fuck i need a faster build server
4272 2011-06-01 23:19:15 <sipa> i doubt 0.3.22 will change anything there
4273 2011-06-01 23:19:21 <phantomcircuit> with more memories!
4274 2011-06-01 23:19:24 Guest21910 has quit (Quit: Changing server...)
4275 2011-06-01 23:19:30 <sanjor> ok thanks
4276 2011-06-01 23:19:34 <gmaxwell> Is there any stupid tool that will simply scan the blockchain and dump out all the currently open TXN at a specified height?
4277 2011-06-01 23:19:45 Netsniper has joined
4278 2011-06-01 23:19:49 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: you are doing something wrong...
4279 2011-06-01 23:19:57 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, pretty sure im not
4280 2011-06-01 23:19:59 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: if you find one, please let me know.
4281 2011-06-01 23:20:02 <sanjor> how does it lock to show bitcoin is running? is there a file in ~/.bitcoin ?
4282 2011-06-01 23:20:08 <BlueMatt> gjs278: win builds are built on linux now
4283 2011-06-01 23:20:12 <gjs278> I know
4284 2011-06-01 23:20:16 <gjs278> but using that line?
4285 2011-06-01 23:20:20 <phantomcircuit> unless the png support adds an additional 7G
4286 2011-06-01 23:20:25 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: ./configure --host=i586-mingw32msvc --build=i686-linux --disable-shared --enable-monolithic --enable-debug --without-libpng --disable-svg
4287 2011-06-01 23:20:35 <BlueMatt> maybe --disable-shared?
4288 2011-06-01 23:20:43 <phantomcircuit> probably disable-svg
4289 2011-06-01 23:20:53 <BlueMatt> probably not
4290 2011-06-01 23:21:05 <gjs278> did we actually add a configure file to bitcoin
4291 2011-06-01 23:21:17 <phantomcircuit> the svg support in webkit takes about 4GB to link
4292 2011-06-01 23:21:22 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: okay, I wanted to make a datastructure for a efficient 'fossilized' blockchain summary, but I guess I need to first write something to extract the data. :)
4293 2011-06-01 23:21:24 <phantomcircuit> it's actually kind of lulzy
4294 2011-06-01 23:21:33 intelmeth has joined
4295 2011-06-01 23:21:36 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: ok, then maybe
4296 2011-06-01 23:21:52 <sipa> phantomcircuit: wtf?
4297 2011-06-01 23:22:17 <gmaxwell> C++ is kinda lulzy.
4298 2011-06-01 23:22:26 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: I am particularly interested in something which clearly watches and points out orphan blocks and blockchain forks, for the obvious reasons. :)
4299 2011-06-01 23:22:31 mpr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4300 2011-06-01 23:22:32 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: throwing it out there
4301 2011-06-01 23:22:35 mpr has joined
4302 2011-06-01 23:22:39 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yes linking the svg portion of webkit will peak at 4G of memory in use
4303 2011-06-01 23:23:18 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ah, well Im in favor
4304 2011-06-01 23:23:49 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
4305 2011-06-01 23:23:57 james has joined
4306 2011-06-01 23:24:04 <sanjor> do i need all the files in ~/.bitcoin to back up my bitcoins or will a single file do the trick?
4307 2011-06-01 23:24:15 <sipa> only wallet.dat will suffice
4308 2011-06-01 23:24:23 james is now known as Guest24998
4309 2011-06-01 23:24:27 <sanjor> thanks sipa
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4312 2011-06-01 23:25:42 benno2 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4313 2011-06-01 23:26:08 <james4k> anyone happen to be doing any bitcoin related dev in haskell?
4314 2011-06-01 23:26:20 Herodes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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4316 2011-06-01 23:27:36 Beremat has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
4317 2011-06-01 23:27:45 <sipa> james4k: roconnor is, i believe
4318 2011-06-01 23:28:05 simkiss has quit (Quit: simkiss)
4319 2011-06-01 23:28:49 Herodes has joined
4320 2011-06-01 23:30:10 <midnightmagic> james4k: there's some going on over in namecoin
4321 2011-06-01 23:30:31 <midnightmagic> james4k: someone is writing some glue between namecoin and bind in it, from what I understand.
4322 2011-06-01 23:30:52 _Netsniper_ has joined
4323 2011-06-01 23:30:52 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4324 2011-06-01 23:31:02 <sipa> hmm, anyone else here also in #haskell? :)
4325 2011-06-01 23:31:12 Zarutian_tmp has joined
4326 2011-06-01 23:31:24 <midnightmagic> yes!
4327 2011-06-01 23:31:36 DukeOfURL has joined
4328 2011-06-01 23:31:49 _Netsniper_ is now known as Netsniper
4329 2011-06-01 23:32:19 <sipa> actualy, it was a discussion on #haskell-blah that convinced me to check out bitcoin, somewhere in november
4330 2011-06-01 23:32:26 vigilyn has joined
4331 2011-06-01 23:32:28 Netsniper is now known as Guest50396
4332 2011-06-01 23:33:13 * Zarutian_tmp comes across http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bvdw.org%2Fmedien%2Fbvdw-warnt-verbraucher-und-haendler-vor-bitcoins-als-zahlungsmittel%3Fmedia%3D3006
4333 2011-06-01 23:36:27 johnnympereira5 has joined
4334 2011-06-01 23:36:46 <Zarutian_tmp> what is this Bundesverband Digitale Wirtschaft (BVDW) thing? Some sort of lobby group like USA Chamber of commerce?
4335 2011-06-01 23:39:08 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, you end up building 100% static binaries right?
4336 2011-06-01 23:39:27 <BlueMatt> yea
4337 2011-06-01 23:40:01 <phantomcircuit> i keep getting an exception with wxwidgets looking for a dll
4338 2011-06-01 23:41:31 <iera> Zarutian_tmp: lobby group for the digital economy
4339 2011-06-01 23:41:39 <iera> Zarutian_tmp: so yeah, bit of
4340 2011-06-01 23:41:54 <phantomcircuit> which makes absolutely no sense because i built bitcoin.exe with -static
4341 2011-06-01 23:42:28 <iera> Zarutian_tmp: its really getting interesting at least :p
4342 2011-06-01 23:42:37 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: are you using makefile.linux-mingw?
4343 2011-06-01 23:43:10 <phantomcircuit> yeah
4344 2011-06-01 23:43:21 <Zarutian_tmp> ;;bc,blocks
4345 2011-06-01 23:43:22 <gribble> 128050
4346 2011-06-01 23:43:33 <BlueMatt> are the libpaths right for it (I never put any effort into bothering with them beyond my system)
4347 2011-06-01 23:43:54 <BlueMatt> iirc it needs another couple libpaths
4348 2011-06-01 23:43:59 <phantomcircuit> yeah i changed those
4349 2011-06-01 23:44:02 <phantomcircuit> everything builds
4350 2011-06-01 23:44:02 <BlueMatt> try location/wx-config
4351 2011-06-01 23:44:09 <phantomcircuit> but it's just not a static binary
4352 2011-06-01 23:44:20 <BlueMatt> then you ./configure'ed wx wrong
4353 2011-06-01 23:44:51 james_ has joined
4354 2011-06-01 23:44:51 <phantomcircuit> i used the same one you posted
4355 2011-06-01 23:45:06 Guest24998 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4356 2011-06-01 23:45:23 <BlueMatt> hm, well then I cant help you
4357 2011-06-01 23:45:28 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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4363 2011-06-01 23:52:56 _Netsni3 has joined
4364 2011-06-01 23:53:45 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, got it to work by adding -Wl,-Bstatic all over the plac
4365 2011-06-01 23:53:49 johnnympereira5 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
4366 2011-06-01 23:53:58 <phantomcircuit> except my patch broken connect() all together on windows
4367 2011-06-01 23:53:59 <BlueMatt> mmm
4368 2011-06-01 23:54:01 <phantomcircuit> lol
4369 2011-06-01 23:54:15 <phantomcircuit> whatever ill fix it tomorrow
4370 2011-06-01 23:55:20 * diki might have fucking actually done it
4371 2011-06-01 23:55:24 _Netsniper_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4372 2011-06-01 23:55:32 <BlueMatt> diki: god how long has it taken you?
4373 2011-06-01 23:55:59 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i'm not sure if all that supernode business is really needed
4374 2011-06-01 23:56:17 <diki> for?
4375 2011-06-01 23:56:25 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: how so?
4376 2011-06-01 23:56:29 <diki> I researched ways to make what i want to do
4377 2011-06-01 23:56:45 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i think just having the client not advertise if there's a high probability that inbound connections wont be accepted (unless upnp is enabled or it is explicitly told otherwise)
4378 2011-06-01 23:56:50 <diki> i tried following the logic of the program to see what where connects to(i.e which function calls which function)
4379 2011-06-01 23:56:58 <diki> so far i have compiled the program
4380 2011-06-01 23:56:59 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: would be sufficient to solve the particular issues we're seeing right now
4381 2011-06-01 23:57:01 <diki> needs testing
4382 2011-06-01 23:57:30 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: but then re-reading what you were saying, i think we're saying the same thing and you're just assigning names
4383 2011-06-01 23:57:33 <jrmithdobbs> haha nm
4384 2011-06-01 23:57:52 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: yes, that might solve it, but it would be much more effective to solve it via supernode/leafnode configuration, plus it gets stuff prepared for thin clients
4385 2011-06-01 23:57:56 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: but I don't think the nodes need to distinguish themselves
4386 2011-06-01 23:58:12 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: how does it help with thin clients I guess is the part i'm missing
4387 2011-06-01 23:58:14 io_error has joined
4388 2011-06-01 23:58:17 <BlueMatt> you cant not advertise yourself without flaging it as leaf node
4389 2011-06-01 23:58:26 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: because if these pseudo-thin-clients aren't advertising thin clients wont ever see them anyways
4390 2011-06-01 23:58:53 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: how does tor work then? (I'm about to start looking at that)
4391 2011-06-01 23:58:54 <BlueMatt> because the stuff which auto-upgrades your node to advertise is what I envision for thin-clients
4392 2011-06-01 23:59:07 <BlueMatt> if (tor) dont advertise
4393 2011-06-01 23:59:09 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: was figuring out how to get the data necessary to make the determination in a fairly-portable-way
4394 2011-06-01 23:59:37 <jrmithdobbs> think i've got that sorted, including a fallback (ipv4 only, unfortunately) for older posix systems