1 2011-06-04 00:00:16 <phantomcircuit> Gunrun, that button is for generating bitcoins with your cpu
2 2011-06-04 00:00:21 <phantomcircuit> it's 100% useless now
3 2011-06-04 00:00:33 <Gunrun> ah. well ok. its still not connecting though : /
4 2011-06-04 00:00:52 <phantomcircuit> when you first start up there's a delay before it even tries to connect
5 2011-06-04 00:01:18 <Gunrun> ah
6 2011-06-04 00:01:19 <sipa> is your firewall blocking it maybe?
7 2011-06-04 00:01:23 <Gunrun> nope
8 2011-06-04 00:01:25 <sipa> it can take a minute
9 2011-06-04 00:01:29 <Gunrun> I wish the client was more verbose
10 2011-06-04 00:01:33 <Gunrun> yeah I'll wait a minute
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12 2011-06-04 00:02:04 <phantomcircuit> Gunrun, there isa debug.log file
13 2011-06-04 00:02:14 <phantomcircuit> you should go find it and see what's at the end
14 2011-06-04 00:02:48 joepie92 has joined
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16 2011-06-04 00:03:41 <Gunrun> oh hey connections
17 2011-06-04 00:03:52 <phantomcircuit> hehe
18 2011-06-04 00:03:56 <phantomcircuit> isn't it loverly?
19 2011-06-04 00:04:11 <Gunrun> well except I forgot to run it with -server
20 2011-06-04 00:04:19 <Gunrun> so poclbm can't talk to it
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22 2011-06-04 00:06:09 <Gunrun> woo 50000khashes
23 2011-06-04 00:06:15 <Gunrun> thats probably not much
24 2011-06-04 00:06:15 <mtrlt> sipa: it seems your charts haven't updated for a day or so
25 2011-06-04 00:10:50 <Gunrun> so say I randomly discover a bitcoin, will I just get 1 bitcoin or half a bitcoin or what
26 2011-06-04 00:11:01 <Gunrun> I mean what if I solve a block
27 2011-06-04 00:11:09 <mtrlt> find a block and you get 50BTC plus transaction fees
28 2011-06-04 00:11:18 <mtrlt> but with that power you should go to a pool :p
29 2011-06-04 00:11:26 <Gunrun> well how do I do that
30 2011-06-04 00:11:55 <mtrlt> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Pooled_mining
31 2011-06-04 00:12:05 <Gunrun> just found that page but thanks anyway
32 2011-06-04 00:12:06 normanrichards has joined
33 2011-06-04 00:12:08 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 50000
34 2011-06-04 00:12:09 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 50000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 1 year, 9 weeks, 4 days, 8 hours, 42 minutes, and 21 seconds
35 2011-06-04 00:12:19 <mtrlt> or rather, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Pool_Operators
36 2011-06-04 00:12:20 <mtrlt> :p
37 2011-06-04 00:12:31 IO-Zzz is now known as IO-
38 2011-06-04 00:12:38 <sipa> mtrlt: hmm, strange, manually running my update script fixes it
39 2011-06-04 00:12:45 <sipa> i wonder why the cronjob doesn't work
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49 2011-06-04 00:26:02 <io_error> Hm, that's going to be confusing.
50 2011-06-04 00:27:30 simkiss_ has quit (Client Quit)
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53 2011-06-04 00:31:58 <Gunrun> so Nvidia cards now work with openCL
54 2011-06-04 00:32:02 <Gunrun> should I still use CUDA?
55 2011-06-04 00:32:07 <Gunrun> or no difference
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63 2011-06-04 00:40:54 <diki> efukt is probably the most funniest site ever
64 2011-06-04 00:41:01 <diki> never had so much laugh damn...
65 2011-06-04 00:44:24 fimp has joined
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70 2011-06-04 00:48:07 <jav_> If an address is associated with an account, and that address receives a generation transaction... will the amount eventually - after 120 blocks - show up under getbalance for that account or is there somehow a special semantic for generations?
71 2011-06-04 00:51:46 <sipa> i believe generations are special in that regard
72 2011-06-04 00:51:58 <gmaxwell> s/special/broken/
73 2011-06-04 00:52:17 <gmaxwell> some eligius miners have complained about that.
74 2011-06-04 00:52:33 normanrichards has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
75 2011-06-04 00:52:50 <gmaxwell> which suddenly gives my insight to how mybitcoin probably operates on the backend. oy.
76 2011-06-04 00:53:13 <jav_> yes, I guess I can confirm that... just had one guy who used an Instawallet to receive a generation and that didn't work out as expected either
77 2011-06-04 00:53:42 Doc_M has joined
78 2011-06-04 00:53:45 <jav_> looking at the wallet now, I can see that the generation amount is listed under the account "", instead of the account that the receiving address belongs to
79 2011-06-04 00:54:00 <Doc_M> Hello folks
80 2011-06-04 00:54:03 <sipa> line 1020 in main.cpp
81 2011-06-04 00:54:10 takahiro has joined
82 2011-06-04 00:54:13 <sipa> // Generated blocks assigned to account ""
83 2011-06-04 00:54:24 <sipa> should be easy to fix
84 2011-06-04 00:55:32 <takahiro> hi is it normal to have trouble connecting to bitcoin? i started my app about 15 minutes ago and it still says 0 connections... i am sure it's just slow, because for a while it said 3 connections, but i had to restart it
85 2011-06-04 00:55:46 <jav_> would be nice if it could be fixed.... maybe I'll try myself, but in the meantime I will have to tell people to not use Instawallet for generation transactions
86 2011-06-04 00:55:47 <Doc_M> yes it takes a bit starting out
87 2011-06-04 00:56:57 <Doc_M> I arrived late to the party, what's wrong with instawallet?
88 2011-06-04 00:57:50 <Doc_M> sorry i'll just check the log, forgot this was a logged channel
89 2011-06-04 00:59:01 Carandiru has joined
90 2011-06-04 00:59:41 <sipa> takahiro: growing pains - it will be taken care of soon
91 2011-06-04 01:00:18 <jav_> Doc_M: I only just realized, that the current behaviour makes it impossible for people to use an Instawallet for a generation transaction... since bitcoind assignes generated blocks (or parts of them) to the account "", Instawallet can't currently tell to which wallet this should belong
92 2011-06-04 01:00:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: was any conclusion reached about the connect patch by phantomcircuit with the awful sleepyloop? :)
93 2011-06-04 01:00:32 <Doc_M> got yah
94 2011-06-04 01:00:36 <jav_> but looks like this person that e-mailed me about it, was the first to try that
95 2011-06-04 01:00:44 wood_ has joined
96 2011-06-04 01:01:03 <sipa> gmaxwell: if it's up to me it will be merged soon, and we'll try a nicer solution later
97 2011-06-04 01:01:06 <gmaxwell> jav_: presumably the Instawallet people fixed it manually, right?
98 2011-06-04 01:01:27 <Doc_M> sucky way to find out about it
99 2011-06-04 01:01:28 <jav_> gmaxwell: I'm the Instawallet people... and yeah, that's what I plan on doing now :-)
100 2011-06-04 01:01:29 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
101 2011-06-04 01:01:34 Breign has quit ()
102 2011-06-04 01:01:36 <gmaxwell> jav_: ah!
103 2011-06-04 01:01:42 <takahiro> sipa: okay thanks
104 2011-06-04 01:01:46 <sipa> jav_: if you want, i can write a quick patch for that
105 2011-06-04 01:01:47 <GarrettB> [Tycho]: you run deepbit, correct?
106 2011-06-04 01:01:53 azoff_ has quit (Quit: azoff_)
107 2011-06-04 01:01:55 <gmaxwell> jav_: I think a lot of people would like a patch to bitcoin to handle that right, btw.
108 2011-06-04 01:02:08 <jav_> sipa: that would be much appreciated
109 2011-06-04 01:02:22 <Doc_M> does the client try to cluster coins to minimize transaction sizes?
110 2011-06-04 01:02:24 rynardt_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
111 2011-06-04 01:02:42 <jav_> sipa: but do you think there is a special reason for the current behaviour? any unintended side efffects that we might not be thinking of right now?
112 2011-06-04 01:02:52 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Chris Howie * r4f66b58d475d mining-proxy/htdocs/index.php: Use PATH_INFO to convey long-polling information for the benefit of Phoenix (which doesn't support query strings in long-polling URLs) http://tinyurl.com/3rqvqja
113 2011-06-04 01:03:27 RBecker has joined
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117 2011-06-04 01:08:48 <sipa> Doc_M: somewhat
118 2011-06-04 01:09:02 <sipa> jav_: i doubt it - it looks to me that the code was written assuming that generations always happen to unique addresses
119 2011-06-04 01:09:21 RBecker has joined
120 2011-06-04 01:10:06 <jav_> sipa: I guess so.. I also can't think of a reason why it can't be listed under the associated account
121 2011-06-04 01:10:45 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|SLeep
122 2011-06-04 01:10:49 Nicksasa is now known as SLeep!~Nicksasa@178-117-211-223.access.telenet.be|Nicksasa|Sleep
123 2011-06-04 01:11:10 <tippenein> anyone know a reason why my bitcoin client doesn't connect. (no firewall and port forwarded)
124 2011-06-04 01:11:22 <Doc_M> Its just slow tippenein
125 2011-06-04 01:11:39 <Doc_M> wooo
126 2011-06-04 01:11:42 <tippenein> yah? like, how slow? 15 minutes>?
127 2011-06-04 01:11:42 <Doc_M> BLOCK!
128 2011-06-04 01:11:53 <Doc_M> :does the block solved dance:
129 2011-06-04 01:12:00 <sipa> Doc_M: hash rate?
130 2011-06-04 01:12:06 <sipa> tippenein: it may take much longer, unfortunately
131 2011-06-04 01:12:14 <Doc_M> I think US just solved a block
132 2011-06-04 01:12:25 joepie91 has joined
133 2011-06-04 01:12:39 <Doc_M> hrm, maybe not
134 2011-06-04 01:12:39 <tippenein> sipa, thanks. as long as I know it will connect EVENTUALLY that's fine
135 2011-06-04 01:12:42 <sipa> tippenein: use -addnode on the command line to connect to a particular node immediately
136 2011-06-04 01:13:06 <tommygunner> nope Doc_M, didnt
137 2011-06-04 01:13:06 <Doc_M> oh sorry wrong window
138 2011-06-04 01:13:43 <tommygunner> other channel :>
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142 2011-06-04 01:15:15 <tippenein> what do you add for a node? your local ip?
143 2011-06-04 01:15:28 <eamon> [Tycho]: How many invalid blocks have you had?
144 2011-06-04 01:15:33 sethsethseth____ is now known as sethsethseth___
145 2011-06-04 01:15:43 <Doc_M> jav_: Can you explain to me how its happening? Sorry I am kinda new here and would like to learn in more detail so I can contribute.
146 2011-06-04 01:16:21 sethsethseth____ has joined
147 2011-06-04 01:16:38 <sipa> tippenein: search for fallback nodes on the wiki
148 2011-06-04 01:16:45 <sipa> though the list is a bit outdated
149 2011-06-04 01:17:02 <sipa> so you'd run bitcoin -addnode=123.45.67.89
150 2011-06-04 01:17:13 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
151 2011-06-04 01:17:37 <jav_> Doc_M: sure... Instawallet uses the account feature of bitcoind to differentiate between different Instawallets... for each Instawallet a new account is created and bitcoind makes sure that transactions are attributed to the correct account. Expect, as I learned today, for generation transactions, which are put under the standard account "" regardless of the address where they have been received
152 2011-06-04 01:17:42 sabalabas has joined
153 2011-06-04 01:18:46 <jav_> from what I can tell, mybitcoin.com works in the same way.. and suffers from the same problem ... but as sipa pointed out, it shouldn't be too hard to fix
154 2011-06-04 01:19:02 <tippenein> sipa, thanks. that worked swimmingly
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157 2011-06-04 01:20:28 <sipa> jav_: almost done - it won't be tested though
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160 2011-06-04 01:21:06 <Doc_M> Could that be so people can't substitute a different address when cooperatively mining? So they are cooperatively mining and they find the block (not other pool members), they sneak in a different address so the block gets sent elsewhere
161 2011-06-04 01:21:15 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
162 2011-06-04 01:21:19 <Doc_M> or is this something else entirely
163 2011-06-04 01:21:43 <Doc_M> I know that can't normally happen because the hash includes the generator's address info.
164 2011-06-04 01:21:46 <sipa> Doc_M: impossible
165 2011-06-04 01:21:54 <Doc_M> I am asking if this has anything to do with that
166 2011-06-04 01:22:04 <sipa> they don't even have the block to send out, only the pool operator has that
167 2011-06-04 01:22:28 <sipa> and if they'd change the payout address, the hashes would change too
168 2011-06-04 01:22:33 agent-x has joined
169 2011-06-04 01:22:44 <sipa> making their results invalid and rejected by the pool
170 2011-06-04 01:22:45 <Doc_M> Thats what I was asking about, if this had anything to do with that
171 2011-06-04 01:22:49 <Doc_M> thanks
172 2011-06-04 01:23:29 sabalabas has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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174 2011-06-04 01:27:51 sethsethseth____ has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
175 2011-06-04 01:28:45 <sipa> jav_: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/accgeneration
176 2011-06-04 01:29:43 <sipa> i only touched rpc and balance calculation code, so it should be safe - but use at your own risk
177 2011-06-04 01:30:11 synx has quit ()
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179 2011-06-04 01:31:33 <jav_> sipa: I'll look into it, thanks!
180 2011-06-04 01:33:08 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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182 2011-06-04 01:34:36 <sipa> jav_: only thing tested is that it reports correct balances here on a wallet without generations-to-address
183 2011-06-04 01:35:12 <Doc_M> Btw is there a bitcoin test network?
184 2011-06-04 01:35:22 <sipa> yes
185 2011-06-04 01:35:28 <sipa> run with -testnet
186 2011-06-04 01:35:33 <Doc_M> excelent
187 2011-06-04 01:35:49 <sipa> there are few miners there, so transactions can take hours/days though
188 2011-06-04 01:35:51 <Doc_M> much lower difficulty? so testing is more possible?
189 2011-06-04 01:35:58 sethsethseth___ has joined
190 2011-06-04 01:36:11 <Doc_M> ah
191 2011-06-04 01:36:52 <sipa> difficulty is around 38
192 2011-06-04 01:37:05 <sipa> in realnet-equivalent difficulty
193 2011-06-04 01:37:29 <Doc_M> but that means testing can for some things take days
194 2011-06-04 01:37:31 <Doc_M> hrm
195 2011-06-04 01:37:41 <sipa> if you want to use it, mine for yourself on it
196 2011-06-04 01:37:47 vokoda has joined
197 2011-06-04 01:37:51 <Doc_M> got yah
198 2011-06-04 01:38:00 <sipa> ;;bc,calcd 4000 38
199 2011-06-04 01:38:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 38, is 11 hours, 20 minutes, and 2 seconds
200 2011-06-04 01:38:18 <sipa> still a bit high for a CPU, but with a medium GPU, it's doable
201 2011-06-04 01:38:27 <Doc_M> yah
202 2011-06-04 01:38:47 <Doc_M> bit higher than you'd want for purely testing purposes, but whatever
203 2011-06-04 01:38:57 <sipa> there's also textnet-in-a-box
204 2011-06-04 01:39:02 <sipa> *testnet
205 2011-06-04 01:39:23 <sipa> which gives you two nodes on your own computer, with some generation history, at difficulty 1
206 2011-06-04 01:39:30 <Doc_M> excelent
207 2011-06-04 01:40:46 sneak has joined
208 2011-06-04 01:42:52 <lizthegrey> ;;bc,calcd 200000 38
209 2011-06-04 01:42:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 38, is 13 minutes and 36 seconds
210 2011-06-04 01:43:25 <Doc_M> which isn't bad
211 2011-06-04 01:43:47 scott` has joined
212 2011-06-04 01:45:10 <lizthegrey> indeed, given that I'll be trying to test pool software :)
213 2011-06-04 01:45:34 agent-x has quit (Quit: -__-)
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215 2011-06-04 01:46:09 <Doc_M> :-)
216 2011-06-04 01:46:36 Gunrun has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
217 2011-06-04 01:47:20 vokoda has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
218 2011-06-04 01:47:39 Sthebig has joined
219 2011-06-04 01:48:53 <Carandiru> Duke Nukem Forever Demo is Up, Free : http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11819.0
220 2011-06-04 01:49:02 caedes has joined
221 2011-06-04 01:50:14 <sipa> demo = trailer?
222 2011-06-04 01:51:00 <Carandiru> no playable
223 2011-06-04 01:52:24 <Carandiru> well Im gonna go play it now hehe breasts
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241 2011-06-04 02:13:06 <Doc_M> Anyway a mac spesmilo seems like a worthy project, any thing I should know before I start playing with it?
242 2011-06-04 02:13:22 karnac has joined
243 2011-06-04 02:13:39 <Doc_M> gaa wrong window again
244 2011-06-04 02:13:49 <Doc_M> sorry folks, closing this window
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248 2011-06-04 02:19:21 <kermit> when its not cost effictive to make more bitcoins, will the transactions fees rise?
249 2011-06-04 02:19:35 <Doc_M> Likely
250 2011-06-04 02:19:39 Netsniper has quit (Quit: Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. -Emma Goldman)
251 2011-06-04 02:19:49 <Doc_M> although its a competitive market stricture so they will likely stay small
252 2011-06-04 02:20:05 Netsniper has joined
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256 2011-06-04 02:26:42 <Doc_M> Oh spesmilo is mostly python? hells yes
257 2011-06-04 02:27:11 karnac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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259 2011-06-04 02:29:10 <lfm> ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : nonstandard transaction
260 2011-06-04 02:29:30 <lfm> luke-jr is that you again?
261 2011-06-04 02:30:59 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
262 2011-06-04 02:31:02 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":14.499,"low":10.6,"vol":73811,"buy":14.38,"sell":14.39,"last":14.38}}
263 2011-06-04 02:31:05 <gjs278> goddamn
264 2011-06-04 02:31:14 <lfm> whew!
265 2011-06-04 02:31:15 <luke-jr> lfm: no, but it might be someone using my branch
266 2011-06-04 02:31:31 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
267 2011-06-04 02:32:08 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
268 2011-06-04 02:32:14 <lfm> at that price my phenom cpu might be economical again
269 2011-06-04 02:33:17 <luke-jr> lfm: I sold at $20 earlier
270 2011-06-04 02:33:47 <Doc_M> $20? I thought this was the all time high?
271 2011-06-04 02:33:51 <lfm> seems crazy
272 2011-06-04 02:34:01 <luke-jr> Doc_M: only 10 BTC tho
273 2011-06-04 02:34:40 <lfm> stil $200 is not nothing
274 2011-06-04 02:36:49 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
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276 2011-06-04 02:37:11 <lfm> no, my phenom isnt quite economical, darn
277 2011-06-04 02:37:24 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calc 14000
278 2011-06-04 02:37:25 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 14000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 4 years, 12 weeks, 0 days, 3 hours, 39 minutes, and 50 seconds
279 2011-06-04 02:37:30 <luke-jr> ;;bc,gen 14000
280 2011-06-04 02:37:31 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 14000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 0.032380217985 BTC per day and 0.00134917574938 BTC per hour.
281 2011-06-04 02:37:48 <luke-jr> $0.48 USD/day?
282 2011-06-04 02:38:02 <luke-jr> I think my i5 is
283 2011-06-04 02:38:08 * luke-jr fires up the CPU miner
284 2011-06-04 02:38:22 <Doc_M> heh yah
285 2011-06-04 02:38:46 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
286 2011-06-04 02:38:55 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
287 2011-06-04 02:38:57 <gribble> Current Blocks: 128466 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 557 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 3 hours, 11 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 529521.30017713
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291 2011-06-04 02:39:03 <luke-jr> srsly? difficulty is going up?
292 2011-06-04 02:39:06 <Doc_M> yes
293 2011-06-04 02:39:15 <Doc_M> when price goes up more people mine
294 2011-06-04 02:39:20 <Doc_M> so difficulty rises
295 2011-06-04 02:39:26 <lfm> ya like another 20%
296 2011-06-04 02:39:33 <luke-jr> I thought people were giving up
297 2011-06-04 02:39:48 <lfm> some give up, some come back
298 2011-06-04 02:39:52 <luke-jr> I know I probably will be shutting down the Radeon soon
299 2011-06-04 02:39:57 <luke-jr> too much heat
300 2011-06-04 02:40:26 <lfm> maybe depends on there electricity rates (if they're logical) or what news they see if theyre not
301 2011-06-04 02:40:29 <Doc_M> its a rather competitive market, so marginal cost should roughly equal price
302 2011-06-04 02:40:44 <luke-jr> actually, how do you change the fan speed?
303 2011-06-04 02:41:36 Lambdanaut has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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308 2011-06-04 02:50:27 gruez is now known as gruez|away
309 2011-06-04 02:50:54 gjs278 has joined
310 2011-06-04 02:51:36 <lfm> aticonfig --pplib-cmd "set fanspeed 0 100"
311 2011-06-04 02:51:46 <Diablo-D3> 100% sucks
312 2011-06-04 02:51:55 <lfm> change the 100 to percent speed
313 2011-06-04 02:51:56 [DusT] has joined
314 2011-06-04 02:52:06 <Doc_M> I was told that 84% was good
315 2011-06-04 02:52:19 <Doc_M> I have no personal experience to back that up
316 2011-06-04 02:52:21 gruez has quit (away!adce4da6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.206.77.166|Quit: Page closed)
317 2011-06-04 02:52:24 sacarlson has joined
318 2011-06-04 02:52:26 <lfm> depends on a lot of things
319 2011-06-04 02:52:59 djoot has quit (Quit: leaving)
320 2011-06-04 02:53:23 djoot has joined
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322 2011-06-04 02:53:47 djoot has joined
323 2011-06-04 02:55:38 <luke-jr> what temp is too hot?
324 2011-06-04 02:56:02 <jgarzik> Doc_M: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10062.0 it's a pretty dumb script, but it works
325 2011-06-04 02:56:04 Teslah has joined
326 2011-06-04 02:57:01 <gjs278> I don't go above 80
327 2011-06-04 02:57:06 <gjs278> even if I'm at 80 I turn my fan up
328 2011-06-04 02:57:50 <luke-jr> erm
329 2011-06-04 02:57:58 <luke-jr> how do you stay under 80?
330 2011-06-04 02:57:59 skeledrew has joined
331 2011-06-04 02:58:10 <luke-jr> even with my fans at 100%, I can't get that low
332 2011-06-04 02:58:19 <gjs278> my 5970 is at 70C right now
333 2011-06-04 02:58:25 <lfm> 80 celcius
334 2011-06-04 02:58:26 <gjs278> with 100% fan
335 2011-06-04 02:58:39 <luke-jr> lfm: yeah, I'm talking C
336 2011-06-04 02:58:50 <Doc_M> tried spacing your cards?
337 2011-06-04 02:58:54 <gjs278> 5870 is at 50C but that's due to aftermarket cooler
338 2011-06-04 02:58:57 <luke-jr> I only have one 5850
339 2011-06-04 02:59:07 <gjs278> the gigabyte 5850 stays really cool
340 2011-06-04 02:59:11 <Doc_M> have a crappy case?
341 2011-06-04 02:59:16 <luke-jr> a case is a case
342 2011-06-04 02:59:39 <Doc_M> not really
343 2011-06-04 02:59:44 <gjs278> if my room gets hot enough I eventually hit 80C but at that point my cpu is idling around 40C so I open a window or something
344 2011-06-04 02:59:47 <Doc_M> cases affect airflow
345 2011-06-04 03:00:13 <luke-jr> room temp is 27 C
346 2011-06-04 03:00:29 <luke-jr> outside temp is 25 C
347 2011-06-04 03:01:01 <luke-jr> fans at 100% seem to settle the 5850 around 84 C
348 2011-06-04 03:01:04 <gjs278> when my room temp hits 27C I definitely start to see 80C
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354 2011-06-04 03:14:37 <da2ce7> I'm back
355 2011-06-04 03:14:54 JRWR has quit ()
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357 2011-06-04 03:16:48 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
358 2011-06-04 03:16:49 <io_error> da2ce7: Welcome back.
359 2011-06-04 03:17:58 Guest64148 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
360 2011-06-04 03:18:42 da2ce7 has quit ()
361 2011-06-04 03:20:11 Xenland has joined
362 2011-06-04 03:20:31 <Xenland> whats up chat
363 2011-06-04 03:20:58 <Xenland> When is the time set, on the "listtransactions" when querying bitcoind?
364 2011-06-04 03:21:15 james has joined
365 2011-06-04 03:21:41 james is now known as Guest37336
366 2011-06-04 03:22:12 <lfm> txn time is (i think) set by the miner when it finds the block that txn is in
367 2011-06-04 03:22:31 normanrichards has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
368 2011-06-04 03:22:40 Internet151 has joined
369 2011-06-04 03:23:30 <SerajewelKS> lfm: no, the time is part of the transaction and cannot be changed once created, since that would make the signatures invalid
370 2011-06-04 03:23:59 <lfm> but there is no time field in the txn, only in the block header
371 2011-06-04 03:25:52 <lfm> so its not part of the txn afaik
372 2011-06-04 03:27:41 <GarrettB> smart people
373 2011-06-04 03:27:49 <GarrettB> can someone tell me if this is correct?
374 2011-06-04 03:27:50 <GarrettB> ECDSA and SHA256 are both very technically solid cryptographic functions, and it does not appear that either will be broken soon. There has been a successful timing attack on ECDSA, but it is not a general attack, and requires certain very specific circumstances, which don?t occur on the bitcoin network.
375 2011-06-04 03:27:54 <GarrettB> the ECDSA part
376 2011-06-04 03:27:58 <Diablo-D3> btw
377 2011-06-04 03:28:01 <Diablo-D3> even if they ARE broken
378 2011-06-04 03:28:05 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt effect us directly
379 2011-06-04 03:28:29 <Diablo-D3> at this point in time, the only realistic breakage just shaves a few years off something that'd take a hundred
380 2011-06-04 03:28:30 <GarrettB> Diablo-D3: I know, writing an article on that for The Bitcoin Sun :)
381 2011-06-04 03:28:36 <lfm> well it depends what level of "break" it is I spoze
382 2011-06-04 03:28:49 <Diablo-D3> and hell
383 2011-06-04 03:28:59 <Diablo-D3> if sha256 gets broken, but doesnt produce collisions
384 2011-06-04 03:29:00 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
385 2011-06-04 03:29:01 <Diablo-D3> that does nothing
386 2011-06-04 03:29:02 <Doc_M> eventually there may come a point where breaking ECDSA may be profitable as bitcoins deflate
387 2011-06-04 03:29:05 <Diablo-D3> it just means the diff goes up
388 2011-06-04 03:29:15 <Diablo-D3> and guess what happens if it doesnt get broken?
389 2011-06-04 03:29:18 <Doc_M> and we would need to increase the strength
390 2011-06-04 03:29:19 <Diablo-D3> the diff goes up
391 2011-06-04 03:29:22 <Diablo-D3> no matter what
392 2011-06-04 03:29:25 <Diablo-D3> the diff goes up
393 2011-06-04 03:29:27 <Diablo-D3> its a fact of life
394 2011-06-04 03:29:37 <Doc_M> for sha256 yes, but the ECDSA is a different matter?
395 2011-06-04 03:29:40 <GarrettB> Doc_M: you'd have to be very sneaky, if people caught wind that coins were being stolen they would become worthless overnight
396 2011-06-04 03:29:41 <Diablo-D3> Doc_M: erm, ecdsa is what keeps our wallets secure
397 2011-06-04 03:29:47 <lfm> and it wouldnt be all that hard to change over to other algorithms really
398 2011-06-04 03:29:56 <Diablo-D3> and ecdsa is NOT a conventional algo
399 2011-06-04 03:29:58 <Diablo-D3> by any means
400 2011-06-04 03:30:05 <Diablo-D3> its a real mindfuck on how clever it is
401 2011-06-04 03:30:24 <GarrettB> hold up
402 2011-06-04 03:30:28 <Diablo-D3> if you can break ecdsa legitimately, then you might as well go build a fucking warp engine
403 2011-06-04 03:30:34 <GarrettB> There has been a successful timing attack on ECDSA, but it is not a general attack, and requires certain very specific circumstances, which don?t occur on the bitcoin network.
404 2011-06-04 03:30:37 <GarrettB> is that correct
405 2011-06-04 03:30:39 <GarrettB> y/n
406 2011-06-04 03:30:41 * jgarzik mumbles RSASSA-PSS
407 2011-06-04 03:30:49 skeledrew has joined
408 2011-06-04 03:30:55 Twoheaded has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
409 2011-06-04 03:30:56 <Diablo-D3> GarrettB: yes BUT
410 2011-06-04 03:31:08 <Diablo-D3> GarrettB: bitcoin doesnt use ecdsa to talk to itself
411 2011-06-04 03:31:15 <Diablo-D3> its completely offline in usage
412 2011-06-04 03:31:15 <lfm> GarrettB: ya timeing attacks would need to be onb the premisses of the attacked machine I think
413 2011-06-04 03:31:23 gwelymernan has joined
414 2011-06-04 03:31:40 <GarrettB> Diablo-D3: right, but if ECDSA is broken in a certain way, someone could generate private keys from a public key, correct?
415 2011-06-04 03:31:46 <Doc_M> I mean rather, at some point it becomes profitable to crack someone's account using a supercomputer to bruitforce it
416 2011-06-04 03:31:52 luke-jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
417 2011-06-04 03:32:00 <cuddlefish> GarrettB: basically
418 2011-06-04 03:32:10 <Doc_M> so you shouldn't let your accounts get too big
419 2011-06-04 03:32:20 <Doc_M> by account I meant wallet, sorry
420 2011-06-04 03:32:25 <Diablo-D3> GarrettB: yes, but it may not be the CORRECT private key
421 2011-06-04 03:32:26 <lfm> GarrettB: well completely hypothetical ya, I guess it could happen,
422 2011-06-04 03:32:43 <Diablo-D3> GarrettB: since if ecdsa can be broken, you might be looking at a huge tub of shit.
423 2011-06-04 03:32:45 <cuddlefish> GarrettB: look
424 2011-06-04 03:32:48 <Diablo-D3> PLUS
425 2011-06-04 03:32:50 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
426 2011-06-04 03:32:52 <Diablo-D3> if ecdsa is broken
427 2011-06-04 03:32:54 <Diablo-D3> world goes into chaos
428 2011-06-04 03:32:56 <Diablo-D3> same way with sha256
429 2011-06-04 03:32:58 <cuddlefish> GarrettB: 1. It's only in the implementation, not the algorith
430 2011-06-04 03:32:59 <cuddlefish> m
431 2011-06-04 03:33:11 <Diablo-D3> no one will care about bitcoins when nukes are firing out of their silos
432 2011-06-04 03:33:11 <lfm> Doc_M: well that depends how you measure the risk. bitcoin may be safer than a bank!
433 2011-06-04 03:33:15 <Doc_M> of course ecdsa can be broken, the question is how much computing power it takes
434 2011-06-04 03:33:17 <Doc_M> agreed LFM
435 2011-06-04 03:33:21 <Diablo-D3> Doc_M: no
436 2011-06-04 03:33:26 <Diablo-D3> Doc_M: broken has a very specific meaning
437 2011-06-04 03:33:33 <Doc_M> I meant bruitforced
438 2011-06-04 03:33:33 <Diablo-D3> it means you found a shortcut for brute forcing it
439 2011-06-04 03:33:47 <Doc_M> yes, that just lowers the difficulty
440 2011-06-04 03:33:51 <Diablo-D3> for sha256 yes
441 2011-06-04 03:33:53 <Diablo-D3> BUT
442 2011-06-04 03:34:01 <Diablo-D3> if sha256 suddenly has collisions
443 2011-06-04 03:34:07 <Diablo-D3> even the banking industry will shit pants
444 2011-06-04 03:34:17 <cuddlefish> GarrettB: So yeah. It's only the OpenSSL ECDSA that's at issue
445 2011-06-04 03:34:18 <Diablo-D3> I dont mean merely shit in their pants
446 2011-06-04 03:34:22 <Doc_M> can sha256 could be broken by quantum computing?
447 2011-06-04 03:34:23 da2ce7 has joined
448 2011-06-04 03:34:23 <cuddlefish> GarrettB: so it will be patched
449 2011-06-04 03:34:24 <Diablo-D3> I mean they will shit pressed dress pants
450 2011-06-04 03:34:28 <Diablo-D3> piles of them
451 2011-06-04 03:34:32 luke-jr has quit (otg!~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
452 2011-06-04 03:34:40 <lfm> thats why I say there are different levels of "breaking" like the old DES was never really broke, it just got real cheap to brute force it
453 2011-06-04 03:34:57 <Doc_M> yah
454 2011-06-04 03:35:06 <Doc_M> well, it had a few shortcuts
455 2011-06-04 03:35:06 <Diablo-D3> also, length extension attacks obviously wont and cannot work on sha256
456 2011-06-04 03:35:13 <Diablo-D3> theres been rumors of useful ones of those floating around
457 2011-06-04 03:35:25 <Diablo-D3> double sha256, and its always a 80 byte header anyhow
458 2011-06-04 03:35:56 <GarrettB> Diablo-D3: can I quote you on the warp engine thing :P
459 2011-06-04 03:36:01 <Diablo-D3> GarrettB: sure.
460 2011-06-04 03:36:10 <GarrettB> neat, what name should I use?
461 2011-06-04 03:36:11 <Diablo-D3> see also: a fucking tardis.
462 2011-06-04 03:36:13 Twoheaded has joined
463 2011-06-04 03:36:15 <Diablo-D3> GarrettB: /whois me
464 2011-06-04 03:36:17 <GarrettB> haha
465 2011-06-04 03:36:25 <GarrettB> great, thanks a lot guys
466 2011-06-04 03:36:41 <davex__> wtf
467 2011-06-04 03:36:51 <davex__> so mtgox will sometimes sell your coins for less than what you entered as ask price?
468 2011-06-04 03:36:53 <lfm> and if they suddenly make quantum computers work we could be in trouble too
469 2011-06-04 03:37:10 <Diablo-D3> davex__: not that Im aware of
470 2011-06-04 03:37:29 <davex__> hmm... quite sure i entered 14.45, sold for 14.35
471 2011-06-04 03:37:37 <Diablo-D3> thats an easy typo to make
472 2011-06-04 03:37:38 <lfm> davex__: its not spozed to
473 2011-06-04 03:37:40 <davex__> saw the order sitting there
474 2011-06-04 03:37:42 <davex__> at 14.45
475 2011-06-04 03:37:47 <cuddlefish> davep: fee?
476 2011-06-04 03:37:48 <Diablo-D3> weird, pester tux
477 2011-06-04 03:37:49 <davex__> actually
478 2011-06-04 03:37:51 <davex__> oh duh.
479 2011-06-04 03:37:52 <davex__> haha
480 2011-06-04 03:37:55 <davex__> forgot about the fee
481 2011-06-04 03:38:05 <Diablo-D3> er, the fee shouldnt be factored into that yet
482 2011-06-04 03:38:15 <Diablo-D3> then again, it doesnt have a third fee column
483 2011-06-04 03:38:17 * Diablo-D3 shrugs
484 2011-06-04 03:38:18 <io_error> da2ce7: What is it you want done?
485 2011-06-04 03:38:19 <davex__> i think it is... i had this happen one other time
486 2011-06-04 03:38:26 <davex__> then forgot about it
487 2011-06-04 03:38:39 <da2ce7> io_error: two projects...
488 2011-06-04 03:38:56 <io_error> da2ce7: And they're secret?
489 2011-06-04 03:39:03 <da2ce7> https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8379.0
490 2011-06-04 03:39:06 <da2ce7> https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11665.0
491 2011-06-04 03:39:19 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: I s/Ma(/Ma2(/ except the #define, and the bug is gone
492 2011-06-04 03:39:24 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: so I suspect another one needs replaced
493 2011-06-04 03:39:32 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: interestingly, Im at 355 instead of 366.
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510 2011-06-04 03:57:25 <Doc_M> If we were to switch to SHA-512 would that change the number of possible coins? Someone on a forum said it would, but that doesn't make sense to me.
511 2011-06-04 04:00:21 chuck has joined
512 2011-06-04 04:00:40 <chuck> Is there anyone who can give me a quick overview of the techincal details of the bitcoin protocol/network?
513 2011-06-04 04:01:01 <chuck> I'm looking into a ruby implementation of sorts and it doesn't seem like the wiki is giving me the full picture on what goes on behind the scenes
514 2011-06-04 04:01:14 <chuck> (and the official bitcoin client reference is kind of daunting :P)
515 2011-06-04 04:01:29 Tick-Tock has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
516 2011-06-04 04:03:51 Moonies has joined
517 2011-06-04 04:06:13 <Doc_M> ok
518 2011-06-04 04:06:35 <Doc_M> it would be easier if you ask questions?
519 2011-06-04 04:06:49 <Doc_M> what part are you curious about, the client? the mining?
520 2011-06-04 04:07:58 luke-jr has joined
521 2011-06-04 04:07:59 BERRI has joined
522 2011-06-04 04:08:47 <chuck> Doc_M, not really mining so much, more of the client. What does a client need to do to "join the network" when it starts up, does it need to listen on a port, does it need to connect to other servers, etc?
523 2011-06-04 04:10:15 <Doc_M> it can find them using peer to peer stuff or can join an IRC channel
524 2011-06-04 04:11:05 * luke-jr watches the txn spam that Eligius is immune to scroll by in #bitcoin-watch
525 2011-06-04 04:11:23 KIWIMINER has joined
526 2011-06-04 04:11:44 <chuck> Doc_M, so it joins an IRC channel, finds a couple nodes to connect to, and sends them a "version" message?
527 2011-06-04 04:11:54 hereforfun has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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529 2011-06-04 04:12:39 _Netsniper_ has joined
530 2011-06-04 04:13:02 <Doc_M> I am unsure about the details of the client, sorry
531 2011-06-04 04:13:27 <Doc_M> although i'm starting to try to port a third party client to mac, so in a couple weeks I should be more convesant
532 2011-06-04 04:15:15 <luke-jr> Doc_M: Spesmilo is just a client, not a node/wallet ;)
533 2011-06-04 04:15:29 grondilu has joined
534 2011-06-04 04:16:41 <grondilu> I'm trying to compile bitcoind and the linker complains about missing gthread lib. Yet I don't see any libgthread packet in my debian repo :(
535 2011-06-04 04:17:35 <Doc_M> ah, it doesn't actually handle any wallet transactions?
536 2011-06-04 04:18:11 <grondilu> yet there IS a /usr/lib/libgthread-2.0.so.0 file. I don't get it.
537 2011-06-04 04:18:35 <Doc_M> goes back to rtfm
538 2011-06-04 04:19:22 ZOP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
539 2011-06-04 04:19:30 <luke-jr> Doc_M: you connect it to a bitcoind (or it can manage its own bitcoind)
540 2011-06-04 04:21:41 <Doc_M> ah
541 2011-06-04 04:21:48 Sthebig has quit (Quit: /quit)
542 2011-06-04 04:22:51 DavidSJ has joined
543 2011-06-04 04:26:05 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
544 2011-06-04 04:26:09 <grondilu> ok found it
545 2011-06-04 04:26:26 * grondilu has finally succeeded compiling bitcoind!
546 2011-06-04 04:27:04 grondilu has quit (Quit: leaving)
547 2011-06-04 04:27:22 zyb has joined
548 2011-06-04 04:27:27 Backburn2 has joined
549 2011-06-04 04:27:38 <Doc_M> yay!
550 2011-06-04 04:30:48 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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553 2011-06-04 04:35:07 Backburn2 is now known as Backburn
554 2011-06-04 04:35:11 Sthebig has joined
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556 2011-06-04 04:37:35 <Doc_M> btw is there any chance in the world we might move to an every minute a block with a smaller payout instead of 50 btc every 10 minutes
557 2011-06-04 04:37:43 AStove has joined
558 2011-06-04 04:38:04 <EvanR> can the client send from a specific address
559 2011-06-04 04:38:15 <EvanR> it seems to randomly choose source addresses
560 2011-06-04 04:38:21 DontMindMe2 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
561 2011-06-04 04:39:10 <EvanR> Doc_M: point of that?
562 2011-06-04 04:41:35 <Doc_M> faster integration into the chain?
563 2011-06-04 04:41:39 <Doc_M> I'm just curious
564 2011-06-04 04:42:08 <EvanR> its already pretty fast
565 2011-06-04 04:42:27 <io_error> Doc_M: Any less than 10 minutes and you'd have more frequent reorgs
566 2011-06-04 04:42:39 <Doc_M> fair enough
567 2011-06-04 04:42:44 <EvanR> if youre thinking of point of sale, better to just not wait for confirmations
568 2011-06-04 04:43:01 <Doc_M> yah, I was thinking of POS apps
569 2011-06-04 04:43:04 <io_error> Right, retail doesn't need to wait for confirmations
570 2011-06-04 04:43:11 <io_error> It just needs to see the tx on the network
571 2011-06-04 04:43:22 darbsllim has joined
572 2011-06-04 04:43:44 <Doc_M> how is that more secure than cheques then?
573 2011-06-04 04:44:01 <Doc_M> I guess you could collect credit card info so the person doesn't defraud you?
574 2011-06-04 04:44:09 <io_error> Doc_M: The TX would be rejected from the network if the addresses didn't have enough money
575 2011-06-04 04:44:23 <Doc_M> I mean brick and mortar POS
576 2011-06-04 04:44:47 <Doc_M> got yah
577 2011-06-04 04:44:59 <Doc_M> so the only purpose of confirmations is to prevent cheating by miners?
578 2011-06-04 04:45:04 <io_error> It would never even get to 0/unconfirmed, it would just go straight into /dev/null
579 2011-06-04 04:45:08 _ape has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
580 2011-06-04 04:45:32 <io_error> Doc_M: That's one way to look at it :)
581 2011-06-04 04:46:05 <Doc_M> I am using cheating very broadly, ok
582 2011-06-04 04:46:23 <scott`> ;;bc,stats
583 2011-06-04 04:46:25 <gribble> Current Blocks: 128489 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 534 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 0 hours, 14 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 532025.65085018
584 2011-06-04 04:47:10 <EvanR> There is no way to ask Bitcoin to "create a payment transaction using the coins received from these previously received transactions.
585 2011-06-04 04:47:35 <EvanR> ""
586 2011-06-04 04:47:58 <EvanR> mmmm
587 2011-06-04 04:48:04 <EvanR> dont understand that
588 2011-06-04 04:48:22 <EvanR> seems obvious to make a raw transaction from any addresses you own
589 2011-06-04 04:48:49 <EvanR> of your choice
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593 2011-06-04 04:50:32 <io_error> EvanR: Sure you can do that, but you'd have to code it up yourself.
594 2011-06-04 04:51:00 <kermit> EvanR: use different wallets
595 2011-06-04 04:51:00 <EvanR> ok
596 2011-06-04 04:51:12 <EvanR> so its not a technical fundamental limitation
597 2011-06-04 04:51:18 simkiss has quit (Quit: simkiss)
598 2011-06-04 04:51:44 <EvanR> different wallets on the same computer?
599 2011-06-04 04:51:59 <kermit> EvanR: im not sure how easy that is to do
600 2011-06-04 04:52:21 Moonies has joined
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604 2011-06-04 04:57:34 <EvanR> how the hell does 'send to ip address' work ?
605 2011-06-04 04:58:49 eureka^ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
606 2011-06-04 05:01:17 <DavidSJ> I think it just connects to the bitcoin peer at that IP address and negotiates the rest.
607 2011-06-04 05:01:17 <Xenland> It dosen't
608 2011-06-04 05:01:20 <DavidSJ> But I could be wrong.
609 2011-06-04 05:01:24 <DavidSJ> I don't really trust it. :)
610 2011-06-04 05:02:02 <Xenland> whats a good formula for calculating the reward for share based
611 2011-06-04 05:02:52 eureka^ has joined
612 2011-06-04 05:03:09 <Xenland> EvanR: i think you can use bitcoin-php to send bitcoins from a specific addess/account in your wallet
613 2011-06-04 05:03:22 <doublec> usershare * (50 - fee)/totalshares
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619 2011-06-04 05:11:21 <ZOP> Not an advert but it's going to sound like one...I knew the Zalman VF3000A would make a big difference on my GPU temps, but i didn't think I'd get down from 88C to barely 60-61C
620 2011-06-04 05:11:26 uppesnuppe has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
621 2011-06-04 05:11:58 <ZOP> the thermal tape they include definitely leaves MUCH to be desired though, had to replace it on one of the ramsinks.
622 2011-06-04 05:12:11 <ZOP> (didn't get a good bond first time, then it was SOL)
623 2011-06-04 05:13:28 <ZOP> and even at full speed, the fans are lots quieter than the stock cooler. whole world of difference.
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631 2011-06-04 05:26:34 <Xenland> ;;bc,gen 800000
632 2011-06-04 05:26:36 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 1.85029817057 BTC per day and 0.0770957571072 BTC per hour.
633 2011-06-04 05:28:45 vsrinivas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
634 2011-06-04 05:29:57 <Xenland> ;;bc, gen 85000
635 2011-06-04 05:29:58 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
636 2011-06-04 05:30:06 <Xenland> ;;bc,gen 85000
637 2011-06-04 05:30:06 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 85000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 0.196594180623 BTC per day and 0.00819142419264 BTC per hour.
638 2011-06-04 05:30:45 <scott`> ;;bc,gen 1200000
639 2011-06-04 05:30:46 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 2.77544725586 BTC per day and 0.115643635661 BTC per hour.
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673 2011-06-04 06:20:05 <RenaKunisaki> hmm. bitcoin CLI reports a balance of zero if it hasn't downloaded any blocks yet
674 2011-06-04 06:20:18 <RenaKunisaki> had me worried for a sec... maybe should report 'unknown' or something?
675 2011-06-04 06:22:26 <DavidSJ> RenaKunisaki: at what block should it consider the balance known?
676 2011-06-04 06:22:30 <DavidSJ> Not 1, right?
677 2011-06-04 06:22:36 <RenaKunisaki> once it has them all?
678 2011-06-04 06:22:37 <DavidSJ> Not 2, right?
679 2011-06-04 06:22:44 <DavidSJ> And how does it know when it has them all?
680 2011-06-04 06:22:51 <RenaKunisaki> doesn't it know?
681 2011-06-04 06:23:15 <RenaKunisaki> at least, can't it remember how many it had last time it shut down?
682 2011-06-04 06:23:19 <DavidSJ> No, for all it knows it's in a network partition with a bunch of peers which don't have the latest blocks.
683 2011-06-04 06:23:31 <RenaKunisaki> I see
684 2011-06-04 06:23:50 <DavidSJ> Yes, and it can also remember the contents of those blocks, too. But it sounds like you're talking about a cold start situation where it never had that info.
685 2011-06-04 06:23:55 johnlockwood has quit (Quit: johnlockwood)
686 2011-06-04 06:24:06 <DavidSJ> What you could do is not go by block number but by timestamp: if it's within the last 60 minutes, for example.
687 2011-06-04 06:26:20 glicth-mod has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
688 2011-06-04 06:27:10 <DavidSJ> night
689 2011-06-04 06:27:16 DavidSJ has quit (Quit: DavidSJ)
690 2011-06-04 06:27:16 <RenaKunisaki> nightr
691 2011-06-04 06:27:23 <RenaKunisaki> damn, missed.
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716 2011-06-04 07:32:10 <jine> Anyone got the formula for calculation estimated earnings based on difficulty & hashrate?
717 2011-06-04 07:33:14 <jine> Got it, thanks anyway
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738 2011-06-04 07:55:33 <lfm> jine: you still there?
739 2011-06-04 07:56:27 <lfm> ;;bc,calc 300000
740 2011-06-04 07:56:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 10 weeks, 2 days, 1 hour, 27 minutes, and 3 seconds
741 2011-06-04 07:56:39 <Doc_M> wow
742 2011-06-04 07:56:46 <lfm> ;;bc,gen 300000
743 2011-06-04 07:56:47 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 0.693861813965 BTC per day and 0.0289109089152 BTC per hour.
744 2011-06-04 07:57:04 <jine> lfm: Yeah, im here.
745 2011-06-04 07:57:14 <jine> I know how to calculate it HERE, but not the math behind it.
746 2011-06-04 07:57:18 <jine> ;;bc,gen
747 2011-06-04 07:57:18 <gribble> (bc,gen <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The expected generation output, at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [math calc 50*24*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per day and [math calc 50*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per hour.".
748 2011-06-04 07:57:18 <lfm> k see those?
749 2011-06-04 07:57:23 <jine> But that teached me it ;)
750 2011-06-04 07:57:32 <jine> Got it from #bitcoin-mining
751 2011-06-04 07:57:36 <jine> Thanks anyway
752 2011-06-04 07:57:46 <lfm> k, np
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768 2011-06-04 08:32:30 <redss> a few of us over at #bitcoin were debating the best practice for anonymization of the source of one's BTC
769 2011-06-04 08:33:37 <redss> say you start out with an account full of BTC at mtgox, in order to hide the source of the coin, what would be best practice? What benefit does an anonymization service have, for example, over just switching addresses a few times?
770 2011-06-04 08:37:58 <redss> If there's a link to the issues, that would also be greatly appreciated! ;)
771 2011-06-04 08:38:58 <RoboTeddy> is there anything written about how bitcoin could (theoretically) switch to a new hash, if sha256 proved to be weak a decade from now, or something?
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774 2011-06-04 08:44:29 <edcba> RoboTeddy: shouldn't be very hard
775 2011-06-04 08:44:48 <edcba> at least for clients and cpu miners
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779 2011-06-04 08:50:06 <eianpsego> edcba, wouldn't such a switch cause an immediate collapse in value?
780 2011-06-04 08:50:19 <vrs> RoboTeddy: client changes
781 2011-06-04 08:50:48 <vrs> eianpsego: you can build onto the existing blockchain, you just need to consent on where to
782 2011-06-04 08:51:10 glicth-mod has quit (Quit: Leaving)
783 2011-06-04 08:51:10 <eianpsego> vrs, consent how? there is no centralization
784 2011-06-04 08:51:16 <vrs> redss: mixnets
785 2011-06-04 08:51:34 <vrs> eianpsego: there is, it's called client developers
786 2011-06-04 08:51:45 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
787 2011-06-04 08:52:03 <eianpsego> vrs, that sounds like the "flag day" argument used for ipv6
788 2011-06-04 08:52:22 <eianpsego> problem* not argument
789 2011-06-04 08:52:37 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
790 2011-06-04 08:52:49 <vrs> how so?
791 2011-06-04 08:53:03 Insti has joined
792 2011-06-04 08:53:27 <eianpsego> vrs, how can you form consensus between developers of different clients to switch on a specific day
793 2011-06-04 08:54:14 <vrs> there are like, two full featured clients out there afaik
794 2011-06-04 08:54:26 TomyBoy3G has joined
795 2011-06-04 08:54:30 <vrs> the official one and bitcoinj
796 2011-06-04 08:54:48 <vrs> miners are another matter though
797 2011-06-04 08:54:53 <eianpsego> well, my assumption was that the underlying crypto wouldn't be broken for a few years
798 2011-06-04 08:55:10 <eianpsego> and I imagine that more clients will spring up
799 2011-06-04 08:55:12 <gmaxwell> 'few'
800 2011-06-04 08:55:25 kish has joined
801 2011-06-04 08:55:37 <gmaxwell> RoboTeddy: there have been forum threads on making a migration.
802 2011-06-04 08:55:38 <eianpsego> maxwell, I was trying to be ultra conservative
803 2011-06-04 08:55:46 <vrs> i think bitcoin clients need a mechanism to switch to a new hash algorithm without updating the client
804 2011-06-04 08:56:19 <gmaxwell> vrs: then the 'new' hash whatever it is would itself be a security liability
805 2011-06-04 08:56:46 samfisher has joined
806 2011-06-04 08:56:48 <samfisher> hi
807 2011-06-04 08:57:12 <samfisher> is it still ok to mine with graphic cards? what card should i buy?
808 2011-06-04 08:57:15 <gmaxwell> 01:45 < eianpsego> vrs, how can you form consensus between developers of different clients to switch on a specific day
809 2011-06-04 08:57:20 <gmaxwell> by block number.
810 2011-06-04 08:57:28 <gmaxwell> samfisher: #bitcoin-mining
811 2011-06-04 08:57:29 TommyBoy3G has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
812 2011-06-04 08:57:43 <gmaxwell> (not by day)
813 2011-06-04 08:57:58 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, is the idea that the mining pools would agree? Don't they have incentive to actively work against the devs?
814 2011-06-04 08:58:23 <gmaxwell> The past 30 years of cryptographic discoverys support the idea that no well tested alogorithim is likely to become insecure overnight.
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817 2011-06-04 08:58:57 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: no. The mining pools income isn't improved by the hash being weak.
818 2011-06-04 08:59:14 <eianpsego> no no, I don't mean weak. I mean this idea of a flag day
819 2011-06-04 08:59:26 <eianpsego> I wouldn't switch to new software if I had a malicious intent
820 2011-06-04 08:59:54 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: if I made all the mining pools 4x faster starting tomorrow, they'd just burn though 2016 blocks quickly get a little extra money and then be exactly where they are now.
821 2011-06-04 09:00:11 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: not just miners, all clients.
822 2011-06-04 09:00:26 <gmaxwell> but anyone who doesn't change will be left behind most likely.
823 2011-06-04 09:00:39 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: so long as most of the hashpower does change.
824 2011-06-04 09:00:50 <vrs> even if sha256 gets weakened, it would have to be utterly owned and broken to break the double sha256 bitcoin is using
825 2011-06-04 09:01:00 <gmaxwell> indeed.
826 2011-06-04 09:01:14 <eianpsego> wait
827 2011-06-04 09:01:16 <RoboTeddy> how does double sha256 work? do you literally take hash(hash(value)) instead of hash(value) ?
828 2011-06-04 09:01:20 <vrs> yes
829 2011-06-04 09:01:23 <gmaxwell> Well, we already take advantage of a 'weakness' for the type of work we do.
830 2011-06-04 09:01:40 <RoboTeddy> for a weak hash like md5⦠is double-md5 still safe?
831 2011-06-04 09:01:54 <gmaxwell> we're able to precompute the inital expansion, and terminate 4 rounds early.
832 2011-06-04 09:01:59 <eianpsego> maxwell, the idea that they would be able to get a "little" extra money - wouldn't they be able to double spend their brains out for a blocks?
833 2011-06-04 09:02:25 Stellar has joined
834 2011-06-04 09:02:36 <eianpsego> for a *few blocks
835 2011-06-04 09:02:41 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: that would be a lot of incentive for everyone else to install the software that enforces the new hash, now wouldn't it? :)
836 2011-06-04 09:02:59 <eianpsego> you mean the other mining pools?
837 2011-06-04 09:03:04 <lfm> RoboTeddy: yes it is sha256(sha256(blkhdr))
838 2011-06-04 09:03:19 <eianpsego> (my assumption is that the big pools form the majority of the network)
839 2011-06-04 09:03:24 <gmaxwell> Everyone who is honest, and then they'd ignore the dishonest nodes blocks.
840 2011-06-04 09:03:30 <RoboTeddy> lfm, vrs: thanks
841 2011-06-04 09:05:09 <lfm> eianpsego: the pools dont control the market price. if bitcoin is undermined by anyone the market would probably collapse and no one wins
842 2011-06-04 09:05:58 <eianpsego> lfm, if btc are exchanged for real currency, of course someone wins - the first guy (or pool) to exploit the system
843 2011-06-04 09:06:20 <lfm> or the last
844 2011-06-04 09:06:26 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: this is, of course speculation on top of speculation.
845 2011-06-04 09:06:38 <RoboTeddy> is it known how much computing power is currently in the network?
846 2011-06-04 09:06:42 <eianpsego> maxwell, I don't imagine this flag day will go without a hitch
847 2011-06-04 09:06:43 <vrs> yes
848 2011-06-04 09:07:07 <gmaxwell> Weaknesses in sha256 eventually are likelyâ sure. But e.g. "omg infinite blocks for free" are not.
849 2011-06-04 09:07:09 <vrs> http://bitcoinwatch.com/
850 2011-06-04 09:07:34 <lfm> RoboTeddy: you cant know exactly for sure but you can estimate it. see www3.telus.net/millerlf/hashes.png
851 2011-06-04 09:07:55 <vrs> you can estimate it via the block rate
852 2011-06-04 09:08:18 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: it wouldn't be more economically damaging than someone taking over a passenger plane and flying it into a big building was, in any case.
853 2011-06-04 09:08:48 <lfm> gmaxwell: isnt that big enuf for ya?
854 2011-06-04 09:09:02 <gmaxwell> Survivable in any case.
855 2011-06-04 09:09:11 <RoboTeddy> hmm, anyone know how to translate btchashes/s into a more traditional metric for computational power? I'm wondering how the bitcoin network compares to the list top supercomputers
856 2011-06-04 09:09:15 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, my only reason for bringing this hypothetical crap up is the idea that this cutover would somehow be seemless and painless - like rainbows and kittens
857 2011-06-04 09:09:49 <lfm> RoboTeddy: well if you name a specific cpu or gpu we can tell you the hashes/s for that chip
858 2011-06-04 09:09:49 <vrs> you can't really map it 1:1, but some people have done calculations in the forums
859 2011-06-04 09:09:50 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: it would be if the attack is like every other attack on old and trusted crypto has been: useless at first and slowly becoming more useful.
860 2011-06-04 09:10:33 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: if you can make the transistion happen two years out then it's not worse e.g. than having to cope with things like daylight savings date changes or the like.
861 2011-06-04 09:10:56 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, that was an excellent point - hah
862 2011-06-04 09:11:06 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, well played :P
863 2011-06-04 09:11:08 <lfm> RoboTeddy: one problem is most supercomputing is measured in floating point operations (flops) whereas bitcoin is strictly fixed point so the hardware doesnt always performa predicably
864 2011-06-04 09:11:30 <RoboTeddy> lfm: ah, I see. so, apples to oranges
865 2011-06-04 09:12:01 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, I guess if the majority of people get DST right, they can figure out how to download the new f'ing software
866 2011-06-04 09:12:07 <lfm> RoboTeddy: yup, some supercomputers might be really terrible for bitcoin hashing
867 2011-06-04 09:12:21 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, congrats. you've shut me up lol
868 2011-06-04 09:12:32 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: there have been some flag-blockish things in bitcoin in the past, and I'm sure there will be more in the future, unrelated to crypto changes.. e.g. p2p behavior and the like. DOS mitigation.
869 2011-06-04 09:13:15 <lfm> and the overflow bug event
870 2011-06-04 09:14:06 <gmaxwell> oh yea.. ten billion coins for me please!
871 2011-06-04 09:14:09 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, in all honesty, I'd love to have this thing succeed
872 2011-06-04 09:14:37 Nicksasa is now known as Sleep!~Nicksasa@178-117-211-223.access.telenet.be|Nicksasa
873 2011-06-04 09:14:39 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, I'm just worried about systemwide attacks of some sort
874 2011-06-04 09:14:49 <lfm> actually I think most people dont really understand dst and time zones! grin
875 2011-06-04 09:15:15 phuzion has joined
876 2011-06-04 09:15:23 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: the core design has seen a lot of review. It looks solid. People will beat on rough edges and there will be some emergencies no doubt.. but that doesn't really mean any fundimental danger.
877 2011-06-04 09:15:52 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: things will be better off once there are more implementations, right now there is a lot of monoculture.
878 2011-06-04 09:15:53 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, I have discussed this system with a few people that work with U.S. defense agencies
879 2011-06-04 09:16:07 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, I'm told that if the U.S. wants to shut this down, they'd just buy out all the bitcoins
880 2011-06-04 09:16:17 <lfm> but you are welcome to try, just dont expect people to panic unless you have worked out the problem very thuroughly
881 2011-06-04 09:16:28 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: sounds good to me.
882 2011-06-04 09:16:49 <gmaxwell> eianpsego: more likely they'd get the media to attack it. BITCOIN: TERROR DOLLAR. ;)
883 2011-06-04 09:17:04 <eianpsego> gmaxwell, haha
884 2011-06-04 09:17:08 <lfm> or kidd7y porn dealers or something
885 2011-06-04 09:17:13 <RoboTeddy> all they need is a few headlines about bitcoin being used to transfer money around by terrorists, yeah
886 2011-06-04 09:17:21 <RoboTeddy> i guess we should probably move into #bitcoin-politics with this
887 2011-06-04 09:17:41 <eianpsego> my god...I didn't realize there was such a channel wow
888 2011-06-04 09:17:44 <gmaxwell> yea. Find some random actors to talk behind voice disguisers "Oh yes, I've bought 6 year old girls for bitcoin. Got me a good deal"
889 2011-06-04 09:18:04 <RoboTeddy> eianpsego: smarter people in here though ;)
890 2011-06-04 09:18:14 * gmaxwell resists joining yet another channel... 112 irssi windows already.
891 2011-06-04 09:18:23 PirateMarmalade has joined
892 2011-06-04 09:18:54 <RoboTeddy> when the US wanted to shut down online poker, they just made it really hard to exchange the poker currency for USDâ¦. seems like they could easily do the same here (correct me if I'm wrong)
893 2011-06-04 09:19:15 <lfm> RoboTeddy: your right actually
894 2011-06-04 09:19:21 <eianpsego> robo, you might be right. The guy I spoke to was a crypto guy
895 2011-06-04 09:19:59 <gmaxwell> My thinking is still more along the lines of "the transition point between 'too small to worry about' and 'too big to fail' is fairly narrow"
896 2011-06-04 09:20:20 <RoboTeddy> the transition point in terms of time?
897 2011-06-04 09:20:21 <gmaxwell> whereas online poker wouldn't have been economically important enough to enough people to avoid blowing it up.
898 2011-06-04 09:20:31 <gmaxwell> RoboTeddy: time, level of usage, etc.
899 2011-06-04 09:21:16 <lfm> and gambling has an inherent aura of sinnfullness around it right off the start
900 2011-06-04 09:21:35 <RoboTeddy> well so do terror kiddy molestation drug dollars
901 2011-06-04 09:21:35 <gmaxwell> well, those opposeed to BTC will try to argue the same thing.
902 2011-06-04 09:21:40 <gmaxwell> yep
903 2011-06-04 09:22:04 <lfm> RoboTeddy: ya but thats an extra step from sin to bitcoin
904 2011-06-04 09:22:07 <RoboTeddy> the volumes involved in poker were likely /much/ higher than in bitcoin now
905 2011-06-04 09:22:19 <RoboTeddy> well, it's already an extra step for poker⦠poker is a game of skill
906 2011-06-04 09:22:26 <gmaxwell> I think the key point is that cash is actually better for all of these things, except that it's not online (by itself)... and bitcoin is generally somewhat less anonymous than cash.
907 2011-06-04 09:22:49 <lfm> RoboTeddy: yaya, betting on ponies is skill according to some people too
908 2011-06-04 09:23:09 <gmaxwell> RoboTeddy: narrower segment of the population though, or er. maybe not. But presumably bitcoin will be broader before anyone really carres.
909 2011-06-04 09:23:13 <RoboTeddy> lfm: yeah but poker actually IS skill⦠same people at the world championships every year, they don't all get there each time by luck :P
910 2011-06-04 09:23:20 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
911 2011-06-04 09:23:59 <lfm> RoboTeddy: yet those people at the top readily admit there IS a portion of luck involved
912 2011-06-04 09:24:19 <RoboTeddy> lfm: well of course, there's a good deal of variance, but that's true in a lot of skill games
913 2011-06-04 09:24:39 <RoboTeddy> anyway we should probably stop talkign about this in #bitcoin-dev
914 2011-06-04 09:24:40 <eianpsego> lfm, I wonder if that is because it benefits those at the top to perpetuate that idea
915 2011-06-04 09:24:58 <lfm> RoboTeddy: anyway, betting on skill or luck is still gambling and still the same aura of sin
916 2011-06-04 09:25:53 <lfm> RoboTeddy: pure luck on lotteries is pure skill and yet somehow it has convinced people it is less sinfull
917 2011-06-04 09:26:08 <lfm> is pure non skill
918 2011-06-04 09:26:33 <RoboTeddy> mm I would agree that the actual amount of skill involved in an activity and the perceived morality of the activity are entirely separate
919 2011-06-04 09:28:51 <lfm> ya if anyone has any more on - topic questions please break in
920 2011-06-04 09:30:23 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
921 2011-06-04 09:31:20 <lfm> eianpsego: ya I spoze they always need fresh suckers to beleive in their luck but I was thinking that amoung those top rated poker players they admit that on any given day most any one of them might win with lucky cards. that you need to keep long term trends in mind to really see the skill involved
922 2011-06-04 09:32:19 <RoboTeddy> there's only high variance when the players are somewhat matched in skill. if you put a top-level poker player against a total newbie, the newbie will be /crushed/, almost entirely regardless of the cards
923 2011-06-04 09:32:53 <Doc_M> crap its 4 am
924 2011-06-04 09:32:56 Doc_M has left ()
925 2011-06-04 09:33:08 <lfm> depends where ya are
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935 2011-06-04 10:12:22 <samfisher> tcatm: the only thing that's out of place on your website are the ads
936 2011-06-04 10:12:36 <samfisher> otherwise it's very neat
937 2011-06-04 10:18:20 <Phoebus> Bitcoin ethics: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11921.0
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943 2011-06-04 10:23:07 <roconnor> Interesting, only the outTransaction script is used as the subscript when verifying signatures.
944 2011-06-04 10:23:22 <roconnor> I was concatinating the two halves of the script
945 2011-06-04 10:24:25 <lfm> roconnor: well the sigs are in the in-txn script that are verified in the out-txn
946 2011-06-04 10:25:03 <roconnor> lfm: yes, but the transaction is mangled before hashing.
947 2011-06-04 10:25:58 <lfm> oh? I havnt looked into it at that level of detail yet
948 2011-06-04 10:26:18 <roconnor> I'm having fun implementing my own bitcoin library
949 2011-06-04 10:26:34 <lfm> you arnt the google guy are ya?
950 2011-06-04 10:26:42 <roconnor> no, that is TD
951 2011-06-04 10:27:01 <sipa> roconnor: how complete is it?
952 2011-06-04 10:27:06 <lfm> what lang are you using then?
953 2011-06-04 10:27:40 <roconnor> sipa: I seem to have very basic signature verification working.
954 2011-06-04 10:27:46 <roconnor> lfm: Haskell
955 2011-06-04 10:28:17 <roconnor> sipa: as in I can verify the two types of regular signatures
956 2011-06-04 10:29:07 <sipa> but no full script support?
957 2011-06-04 10:29:18 <roconnor> sipa: but I still need to build a proper blockchain. Right now I'm just running allong all the transactions in the mainline blockchain and checking them.
958 2011-06-04 10:29:28 <sipa> i see
959 2011-06-04 10:29:42 <sipa> would be very nice to have a Haskell bitcoin library
960 2011-06-04 10:30:13 <roconnor> sipa: At the moment it is just a matter of impelmenting op_codes
961 2011-06-04 10:30:43 <roconnor> sipa: the harder part is supporting the various Hashtype Values
962 2011-06-04 10:30:44 <lfm> doesnt seem much point in worrying about the unused op-codes
963 2011-06-04 10:31:04 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
964 2011-06-04 10:31:24 <roconnor> half the opcodes seem disabled anyways :D
965 2011-06-04 10:31:29 redss has left ()
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971 2011-06-04 10:33:20 <roconnor> sipa: I'm upto 900 lines of code + a couple of extra modules for SHA2 (which I had already written) RIPEMD and EcDsaSecp256k1.
972 2011-06-04 10:33:47 <sipa> nice
973 2011-06-04 10:33:52 <sipa> anywhere online?
974 2011-06-04 10:33:56 <roconnor> right now I'm just dumping everything into one big module. I figure I can refactor it later once I actually understand how it all works. :D
975 2011-06-04 10:34:02 <roconnor> not online yet
976 2011-06-04 10:34:32 _Netsniper_ has joined
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978 2011-06-04 10:35:43 <lfm> I been using libgcrypt for sha256 and ripem. dunno for sure if it would cover the ecdsa
979 2011-06-04 10:36:07 <roconnor> lfm: my crypto routines are slow! :D
980 2011-06-04 10:36:29 <lfm> ya libgcrypt isnt the fastest but I like em anyway
981 2011-06-04 10:36:31 <roconnor> although my elliptic curve functions are about 100x faster than yesterday.
982 2011-06-04 10:36:48 <sipa> roconnor: how long does a signature verification take?
983 2011-06-04 10:36:53 <gmaxwell> man getting rid of the openssl dep would be nice.
984 2011-06-04 10:37:16 <roconnor> sipa: I don't have good data on that at the moment
985 2011-06-04 10:37:17 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
986 2011-06-04 10:37:18 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":17.41,"low":12.5311,"vol":67125,"buy":17.1983,"sell":17.3,"last":17.2}}
987 2011-06-04 10:37:22 <gjs278> what the fuck
988 2011-06-04 10:37:27 <sipa> gmaxwell: it'll still be some crypto library
989 2011-06-04 10:37:33 has quit (Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-240-200-136.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
990 2011-06-04 10:37:35 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
991 2011-06-04 10:37:40 sethsethseth____ has joined
992 2011-06-04 10:37:54 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
993 2011-06-04 10:37:57 <lfm> gmaxwell: why dont you like openssl?
994 2011-06-04 10:37:58 <gribble> Current Blocks: 128545 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 478 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 15 hours, 59 minutes, and 56 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 536459.06598599
995 2011-06-04 10:38:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: really bitcoin ought to have an internal fast code for the signature validation.. the generic stuff is slllow.
996 2011-06-04 10:38:56 <sipa> i don't like implementing cryptographic primitives ourselves
997 2011-06-04 10:39:20 sethsethseth___ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
998 2011-06-04 10:39:34 <roconnor> sipa: I was thinking of using sparks to verify transactions :D
999 2011-06-04 10:39:35 <lfm> ya its nice to use standard libraries. they are more portable
1000 2011-06-04 10:39:41 <gmaxwell> lfm: personallyâ schizophrenic memory management, but if it doesn't bother you, great.., plus redhat patches out all the ecc code, so its an extra burden building there.
1001 2011-06-04 10:40:09 <lfm> gmaxwell: ok, ya, good points
1002 2011-06-04 10:40:15 <sipa> gmaxwell: i don't mind using another library than openssl
1003 2011-06-04 10:40:50 <gmaxwell> sipa: ::shrugs:: the Secp256k1 is a special case, especially relevant to bitcoin, and important to performance.
1004 2011-06-04 10:41:16 <gmaxwell> (oh also, did you know that Secp256k1 is unusually vulnerable to induced fault attacks? sucks for anyone trying to implement bitcoin directly on a smartcard. :) )
1005 2011-06-04 10:41:26 <lfm> marginally important to performance
1006 2011-06-04 10:41:34 <roconnor> It might be best to carve out the relevent code from openssl and put it right into bitcoin
1007 2011-06-04 10:41:42 <roconnor> so that we can optimize the modulo p operation.
1008 2011-06-04 10:41:59 <sipa> not sure - has anyone ever tried implementing secp256k1 specifically with all possible optimizations?
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1011 2011-06-04 10:42:44 <gmaxwell> sipa: I couldn't find any evidence of that, I went looking... didn't look for that long thought.
1012 2011-06-04 10:42:56 <sipa> if it's significantly faster (more than let's say 20%), it may be worth it indeed to use a specialized version of the openssl or other library code
1013 2011-06-04 10:42:58 <gmaxwell> (thats where I noticed the paper on the fault attacks)
1014 2011-06-04 10:43:18 <roconnor> fault attacks?
1015 2011-06-04 10:43:26 <sipa> timing attack?
1016 2011-06-04 10:43:48 <sipa> ah
1017 2011-06-04 10:43:52 <uppe> possum attack?
1018 2011-06-04 10:43:53 _Netsni3 has joined
1019 2011-06-04 10:44:19 <roconnor> sipa: a fault attack is a timing attack?
1020 2011-06-04 10:44:27 <gmaxwell> Not timing. E.g. radiate or underpower the smart card... then extrat the private key from data in the signature.
1021 2011-06-04 10:44:32 <gmaxwell> er extract
1022 2011-06-04 10:44:39 <roconnor> ah
1023 2011-06-04 10:44:57 <sipa> interesting
1024 2011-06-04 10:45:08 _Netsniper_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1025 2011-06-04 10:46:01 <lfm> ya particulary aiming at smart cards it seems, trying to make them fault then analizing the results
1026 2011-06-04 10:46:39 <gmaxwell> Yes. Well.. smart cards are interesting because fault attacks actually violate the security model. If someone can fault your server you have bigger problems. :)
1027 2011-06-04 10:46:52 <lfm> hehe
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1030 2011-06-04 10:47:15 <lfm> they might start attacking smart phones that way
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1040 2011-06-04 11:01:48 <roconnor> Am I right in observing that someone erased all the tranactions between May 11 and May 25 on the testnet?
1041 2011-06-04 11:02:19 <roconnor> compare http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/b/19308 with the next block
1042 2011-06-04 11:02:25 <sipa> yes, ArtForz :)
1043 2011-06-04 11:02:42 <roconnor> ok
1044 2011-06-04 11:03:28 <roconnor> at least I'm not crazy :D
1045 2011-06-04 11:03:41 <roconnor> no wonder I couldn't find some transactions I was looking for :P
1046 2011-06-04 11:07:58 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-240-200-158.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
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1054 2011-06-04 11:16:31 <samfisher> if i want to send 10 bitcoins and i want to set a 0.01 fee, the total sum that will go to the payee is 99.99?
1055 2011-06-04 11:16:36 <samfisher> sorry
1056 2011-06-04 11:16:37 <samfisher> 9.99
1057 2011-06-04 11:16:41 <sipa> no
1058 2011-06-04 11:16:47 <mtrlt> no, but you will pay 10.01
1059 2011-06-04 11:16:48 <sipa> you'll lose 10.01 BTC
1060 2011-06-04 11:16:54 <samfisher> so i have to have in my wallet 10.01
1061 2011-06-04 11:17:01 <mtrlt> yes
1062 2011-06-04 11:17:17 <samfisher> and what is this fee exactly? it goes to a miner?
1063 2011-06-04 11:17:21 <mtrlt> yes
1064 2011-06-04 11:17:46 <samfisher> why is it encouraged to pay fees?
1065 2011-06-04 11:17:50 <mtrlt> the next miner that solves a block and has included your transaction in there
1066 2011-06-04 11:18:11 <mtrlt> well, as the block creation reward goes down, there has to be some incentive to mine
1067 2011-06-04 11:18:23 <samfisher> oh, i understand
1068 2011-06-04 11:18:35 <samfisher> was this in satoshi's original project?
1069 2011-06-04 11:19:06 <edcba> it is not 'encouraged'
1070 2011-06-04 11:19:24 <edcba> but it does encourage miners to process your transaction first
1071 2011-06-04 11:19:25 <samfisher> edcba: mandatory?
1072 2011-06-04 11:19:33 <samfisher> oh i se
1073 2011-06-04 11:19:52 <edcba> (or to process it at all)
1074 2011-06-04 11:20:19 <samfisher> they might not want to process it? where do my money go in this case?
1075 2011-06-04 11:20:40 <edcba> your money is spent but is not received
1076 2011-06-04 11:21:00 <samfisher> so i loose them
1077 2011-06-04 11:21:11 denisx has joined
1078 2011-06-04 11:21:14 <edcba> in fact you could double spend them
1079 2011-06-04 11:21:35 <edcba> not with original client but...
1080 2011-06-04 11:21:44 <samfisher> but how?
1081 2011-06-04 11:21:52 <sipa> samfisher: unless your transaction is confirmed, you did not actually lose anything
1082 2011-06-04 11:22:01 <sipa> though the client will not let you
1083 2011-06-04 11:22:11 <samfisher> sipa: but they will be deducte from my balance
1084 2011-06-04 11:22:11 <sipa> it will mark the coins spent as soon as the tx is sent out
1085 2011-06-04 11:22:29 <samfisher> and how do i do that?
1086 2011-06-04 11:22:34 <sipa> do what?
1087 2011-06-04 11:22:38 <samfisher> i remember a strange thing
1088 2011-06-04 11:22:59 <samfisher> i was paid some bitcoins for work then wanted to move them to another wallet
1089 2011-06-04 11:23:15 <samfisher> i haven't paid any fee (didn't knew about that)
1090 2011-06-04 11:23:26 <samfisher> and it seems i miss some coins
1091 2011-06-04 11:23:45 <sipa> miss?
1092 2011-06-04 11:23:48 <samfisher> yes
1093 2011-06-04 11:24:00 <sipa> i'm not following
1094 2011-06-04 11:24:04 <samfisher> i should have had like 34.3
1095 2011-06-04 11:24:11 <samfisher> and i only have 32.7
1096 2011-06-04 11:24:36 <sipa> ?
1097 2011-06-04 11:25:25 <samfisher> ok.. i had this wallet with 15.4 coins. someone paid me to another wallet with 17.9
1098 2011-06-04 11:25:55 <samfisher> when i added up what i should had it was more than what i really had
1099 2011-06-04 11:26:01 <diki> this is silly
1100 2011-06-04 11:26:09 <cyberdo> sorry for whining about not having testnet coins, but does anyone have like 1 test-BTC to spare?
1101 2011-06-04 11:26:17 <diki> 16 dollars
1102 2011-06-04 11:26:24 <diki> wtf
1103 2011-06-04 11:26:38 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1104 2011-06-04 11:26:39 <mtrlt> cyberdo: sure, address please
1105 2011-06-04 11:26:46 <samfisher> i might not remember well but it stunned me when the math i did wasn't the same with the math made by the client
1106 2011-06-04 11:27:01 <cyberdo> mtrlt: mifoTYUhNrUWqEvJsd5kLz7D5KRhs5hoo4
1107 2011-06-04 11:27:04 datagutt has joined
1108 2011-06-04 11:27:09 <samfisher> you guys now said the client might mark btc as spent
1109 2011-06-04 11:27:13 <cyberdo> thanks, man... there faucet's still down
1110 2011-06-04 11:27:13 datagutt has quit (Changing host)
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1112 2011-06-04 11:27:34 <sipa> samfisher: it will mark them spend as soon as you spend them
1113 2011-06-04 11:27:37 <sipa> *spent
1114 2011-06-04 11:27:52 <mtrlt> a sec while i download a couple thousand blocks :p
1115 2011-06-04 11:28:05 <samfisher> sipa: so there's no change what i described might happen?
1116 2011-06-04 11:28:25 <sipa> no idea what happened there
1117 2011-06-04 11:29:26 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r8e13bc0 / src/main/resources/DiabloMiner.cl : Ahah, I think I fixed mtrlt's bug - http://bit.ly/kc3AGB
1118 2011-06-04 11:31:24 noagendamarket has joined
1119 2011-06-04 11:31:32 <cyberdo> mtrlt: thank you
1120 2011-06-04 11:31:34 <mtrlt> Diablo-D3: i'll never do any optimizations again because these things are buggy as fuck
1121 2011-06-04 11:31:56 <mtrlt> cyberdo: np :P
1122 2011-06-04 11:33:37 cacheson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1123 2011-06-04 11:34:30 RenaKunisaki has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1124 2011-06-04 11:35:59 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: well, as a side rule
1125 2011-06-04 11:36:06 <Diablo-D3> Ma anywhere near a constant is bad
1126 2011-06-04 11:36:16 <Diablo-D3> gotta use Ma2
1127 2011-06-04 11:36:39 <mtrlt> Diablo-D3: but the row you edited in the last commit didn't even use a constant :p
1128 2011-06-04 11:36:46 <Diablo-D3> its on the line
1129 2011-06-04 11:37:16 manifold has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1130 2011-06-04 11:38:08 Herodes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1134 2011-06-04 11:41:49 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: seriously, the compiler is magic
1135 2011-06-04 11:42:00 <Diablo-D3> and bfi_int actually IS buggy through this code path
1136 2011-06-04 11:42:03 <diki> too many workers on slush's pool
1137 2011-06-04 11:42:15 <diki> my payout dropped
1138 2011-06-04 11:42:22 <Diablo-D3> AMD never enabled it through opencl use because they couldnt fix the issue
1139 2011-06-04 11:42:34 <Diablo-D3> apparently SDK 2.5 will automatically use bfi_int
1140 2011-06-04 11:42:39 <roconnor> I think the large mining pools should conspire to only build on each other's blocks.
1141 2011-06-04 11:42:45 <Diablo-D3> so I'll probably end up auto-detecting 2.5 and turning bfi_int off
1142 2011-06-04 11:42:56 <Diablo-D3> roconnor: ... that would be fucking hilarious
1143 2011-06-04 11:43:09 <roconnor> Diablo-D3: It would give them more money
1144 2011-06-04 11:43:22 <Diablo-D3> it would cause them to reach ~60% hash power and they can double spend.
1145 2011-06-04 11:44:09 <mtrlt> i just hope they release 2.5 soon :P
1146 2011-06-04 11:44:24 <roconnor> Well they'd have to consipre to double spend which might be harder to make the users of the pool wary of them.
1147 2011-06-04 11:44:48 <roconnor> but to simply consipre to only build on each other blocks; the think the pool users would actually like that.
1148 2011-06-04 11:46:10 z310_ has joined
1149 2011-06-04 11:46:22 <roconnor> *I think
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1154 2011-06-04 11:51:10 <denisx> Diablo-D3: isn't it demotivating to know that the difficulty will destroy all your optimizations as long as you don't keep them for yourself?
1155 2011-06-04 11:51:55 sfduih has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1156 2011-06-04 11:52:54 <gjs278> no
1157 2011-06-04 11:53:13 <mtrlt> it means the network gets more efficient, therefore more difficult to break :p
1158 2011-06-04 11:53:17 <gjs278> whenever he adds an optimization to his miner, that just means the network will have more hashpower
1159 2011-06-04 11:53:18 <gjs278> yes
1160 2011-06-04 11:53:33 <gjs278> the attackers won't be using DiabloMiner
1161 2011-06-04 11:53:45 <gjs278> but the people preventing it will be
1162 2011-06-04 11:56:37 <gmaxwell> 0_o
1163 2011-06-04 11:56:38 <gmaxwell> 04:44 < burp> assertion "block.hashMerkleRoot == uint256("0x4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b")" failed: file "main.cpp", line 1980, function "LoadBlockIndex"
1164 2011-06-04 11:56:43 <gmaxwell> (from #bitcoin )
1165 2011-06-04 11:56:54 <gmaxwell> (thats the genesis block check)
1166 2011-06-04 11:57:13 tonik has joined
1167 2011-06-04 11:59:09 Seta has joined
1168 2011-06-04 11:59:23 <davep> is bitcoin full of endian-unsafe optimisations? or have a non-zero number of them? :P
1169 2011-06-04 11:59:58 <sipa> gmaxwell: disk corruption?
1170 2011-06-04 12:00:16 <sipa> oh no, that's the initialization
1171 2011-06-04 12:00:33 <Seta> Somebody can help me here? http://pastebin.com/LimRhnSw
1172 2011-06-04 12:02:29 z310_ is now known as z310
1173 2011-06-04 12:03:58 <gmaxwell> Mystery solved.
1174 2011-06-04 12:04:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: PPC
1175 2011-06-04 12:05:59 agent-x has joined
1176 2011-06-04 12:06:03 <Diablo-D3> denisx: yes, but at least I can say I have th ebest miner ever.
1177 2011-06-04 12:06:51 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1178 2011-06-04 12:07:46 <zamgo> best cpu & gpu?
1179 2011-06-04 12:08:22 <Seta> Ahh this are the guys helped me b4 :D im happy to find the channel again (Heyho here ^^)
1180 2011-06-04 12:08:28 <diki> Seta:delete any nvidia crap you might have. IF you have an ati card
1181 2011-06-04 12:08:41 <Seta> ok ill try thx
1182 2011-06-04 12:08:51 <diki> if you have an nvidia card dont do anything and download a cuda miner
1183 2011-06-04 12:10:03 <Seta> its an ati
1184 2011-06-04 12:10:35 <Diablo-D3> night all
1185 2011-06-04 12:10:46 agent-x has left ()
1186 2011-06-04 12:11:12 RenaKunisaki has joined
1187 2011-06-04 12:11:56 <Seta> When i remove all nvidia stuff i get:No module named pyopencl, if i reinstall pyopencl i got the nvidia stuff again
1188 2011-06-04 12:11:59 Andrevan has quit ()
1189 2011-06-04 12:13:33 <Seta> pyopencl.LogicError: clGetPlatformIDs failed: invalid/unknown error code :/
1190 2011-06-04 12:13:39 gsathya has joined
1191 2011-06-04 12:14:23 DukeOfURL has joined
1192 2011-06-04 12:15:18 <Seta> please help a sad ati noob :/
1193 2011-06-04 12:15:51 RenaKunisaki has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1195 2011-06-04 12:16:37 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1196 2011-06-04 12:17:49 <jgarzik> Seta: #bitcoin-mining
1197 2011-06-04 12:18:43 karnac_ has joined
1198 2011-06-04 12:20:19 <gmaxwell> So, I've been helping someone who doesn't want to git hit with the minfee in .21 and I can't figure out why he's being subjected to it at all
1199 2011-06-04 12:20:54 <gmaxwell> He rxed 1 btc in a single transaction about 82 blocks ago, hes trying to send it out in a single transaction now.
1200 2011-06-04 12:21:51 hereforfun has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1201 2011-06-04 12:22:07 <gmaxwell> I'm running the priority check by hand (1e8 * 60*60*9 / 259).. and that looks fine.
1202 2011-06-04 12:22:21 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1203 2011-06-04 12:22:24 <gmaxwell> Why the heck else would he get the 'This transaction is over the size limit.'
1204 2011-06-04 12:22:49 <sipa> maybe some other input coin(s) were selected?
1205 2011-06-04 12:22:50 <ali1234> Seta: it's a bug with ubuntu and probably debian packages. it doesn't hurt to have nvidia driver installed, just ignore it
1206 2011-06-04 12:22:52 <gmaxwell> (I'm assuming its 259 bytes, I obviously haven't seen the txn, but I can't see why it would be unusually bigâ single input single output)
1207 2011-06-04 12:22:58 <gmaxwell> good call
1208 2011-06-04 12:23:03 RenaKunisaki has joined
1209 2011-06-04 12:23:05 <gmaxwell> lemme ask
1210 2011-06-04 12:23:15 <sipa> is the transaction sent, or not?
1211 2011-06-04 12:23:49 <Seta> ali1234, it doesnt work anyway...
1212 2011-06-04 12:24:08 <ali1234> Seta: idk about that. make sure you have fglrx installed, not the free driver (default)
1213 2011-06-04 12:24:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: no.
1214 2011-06-04 12:24:48 Xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1215 2011-06-04 12:25:00 <gmaxwell> The person has two other addresses one with 0.01 one with 0.02 .. so I don't see why they'd be related.
1216 2011-06-04 12:25:11 Titeuf_87_ has joined
1217 2011-06-04 12:25:15 <gmaxwell> unless it's doing something moronic like 0.02+1 = 1+0.02
1218 2011-06-04 12:26:13 <sipa> that's what i fear
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1220 2011-06-04 12:27:30 <gmaxwell> yea... the smaller amounts are older.
1221 2011-06-04 12:27:35 <gmaxwell> My thats dumb.
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1226 2011-06-04 12:33:12 bk128_ is now known as bk128
1227 2011-06-04 12:33:55 <diki> why does the blockchain sync so slow?
1228 2011-06-04 12:34:30 <gmaxwell> sipa: so I tried having him send 0.03 btc to himself (to trick out the selection algorithim, but it wouldn't do that either)
1229 2011-06-04 12:37:25 <Sedra> 0.3.19 gmaxwell you can set 0.00 fees ;)
1230 2011-06-04 12:37:53 <tommygunner> whats the issue with the fee? the setting doesnt work in specific releases?
1231 2011-06-04 12:38:22 <gmaxwell> I know, not the issue.
1232 2011-06-04 12:38:59 Seta has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1233 2011-06-04 12:39:28 <mtrlt> does wallet.dat really contain every transaction you've done too?
1234 2011-06-04 12:39:41 <sipa> yes
1235 2011-06-04 12:39:51 <sipa> all sent and received transactions
1236 2011-06-04 12:39:54 <mtrlt> hmh
1237 2011-06-04 12:40:07 <sipa> that's how your balance is calculated
1238 2011-06-04 12:40:12 <mtrlt> i wanna just extract the private keys from there. didn't find any documentation on the file format.
1239 2011-06-04 12:40:25 <sipa> it's a bdb database file
1240 2011-06-04 12:40:27 DontMindMe has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1241 2011-06-04 12:40:59 <mtrlt> okay, nice
1242 2011-06-04 12:41:35 <sipa> btw, http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8091.0
1243 2011-06-04 12:41:35 denisx has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1244 2011-06-04 12:41:54 denisx has joined
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1246 2011-06-04 12:44:12 denisx has quit (Client Quit)
1247 2011-06-04 12:45:37 <gmaxwell> okay. I've discovered that bitcoin has some unique development challenges.
1248 2011-06-04 12:46:05 <gmaxwell> Normally when a user has a reproducable bug I'll ask them to give me the data so I can reproduce it on a system with instrumented code.
1249 2011-06-04 12:46:15 <gmaxwell> Amazingly this doesn't work so well for bitcoin!
1250 2011-06-04 12:46:23 DukeOfURL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1254 2011-06-04 12:47:26 <sipa> i hope we'll have a modularized system somewhere in the future, where it's possible eg. replace the network node with a scriptable dummy node, to write test cases
1255 2011-06-04 12:48:10 JRWR has joined
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1262 2011-06-04 12:52:41 <gmaxwell> sipa: here in particular, the data I'd want for the reproduction is their wallet. which I could get in this case because its barely used... e.g. backup, downgrade to .19, spend all and wait for confirms, give wallet to me, destroy wallet and make a new one. but thats a mess.
1263 2011-06-04 12:59:11 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
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1278 2011-06-04 13:34:42 mads- has joined
1279 2011-06-04 13:40:28 <eamon> I'm after pressing some shortcut on my key board (i had it upside downj and changing the battery) and now my screen is in a different res. It brought up (monitor / monitor + projector / projector) something like that, what is the shortcut key so I can cycle it back to monitor. My keyboard has no special function keys or anything. just the normal qwerty keys. My screen is locked to 1600x900
1280 2011-06-04 13:40:28 <eamon> max and there's a "unknown monitor" in my driver panal alongside my monitor... Windows 7.
1281 2011-06-04 13:41:01 gruez has quit (Quit: Return false;)
1282 2011-06-04 13:41:39 <mads-> Hi. I'd like to get involved. :)
1283 2011-06-04 13:41:46 cacheson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1284 2011-06-04 13:48:42 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1285 2011-06-04 13:49:31 molecular has joined
1286 2011-06-04 13:52:31 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1287 2011-06-04 13:52:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 128581 | Current Difficulty: 434882.7217497 | Next Difficulty At Block: 129023 | Next Difficulty In: 442 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 9 hours, 5 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 540656.02390994
1288 2011-06-04 13:58:20 Xunie has joined
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1299 2011-06-04 14:31:18 <cyberdo> how come "sendtoaddress <bitcoinaddress> <amount>" sets a fee > 0 even if I set the fee on the command line to 0, and getinfo() says it's 0?
1300 2011-06-04 14:31:55 <somecoiner> what version?
1301 2011-06-04 14:32:30 <cyberdo> 0.3.21
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1303 2011-06-04 14:33:11 <cyberdo> testnet, if i makes any difference
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1307 2011-06-04 14:38:35 <sipa> cyberdo: 0.3.21 has an extended rule for requiring minimum fees for some transactions, to prevent spam
1308 2011-06-04 14:38:39 FabianB_ has joined
1309 2011-06-04 14:38:48 vokoda has joined
1310 2011-06-04 14:38:51 <sipa> and those rules are applied automatically (which shouldn't happen, i think)
1311 2011-06-04 14:39:26 FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1312 2011-06-04 14:39:30 <cyberdo> sipa: thanks
1313 2011-06-04 14:40:04 <cyberdo> isn't that a bit unnessecary in an OS-software?
1314 2011-06-04 14:40:34 <cyberdo> also: at the current exchange rate, 0.01 BTC is quite much for small transactions
1315 2011-06-04 14:40:54 <kik-> My account balance doesn't seem to update, I transferred coins yesterday and it's still at 0.00. What could be the problem?
1316 2011-06-04 14:42:10 <somecoiner> Is your block count going up?
1317 2011-06-04 14:42:27 <kik-> yes, it's at 128586 atm
1318 2011-06-04 14:42:39 <cyberdo> sipa: btw. Can I disable it?
1319 2011-06-04 14:42:41 <kik-> and 32 connections
1320 2011-06-04 14:42:55 <sipa> cyberdo: not yet
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1323 2011-06-04 14:50:03 Gekz has joined
1324 2011-06-04 14:50:16 <Gekz> what's the format of the wallet.dat file?
1325 2011-06-04 14:51:21 <kik-> Gekz: what do you mean?
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1329 2011-06-04 14:52:47 <Gekz> is it a bdb, for instance.
1330 2011-06-04 14:53:06 <sytse> utsl?
1331 2011-06-04 14:53:35 karnac_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1332 2011-06-04 14:53:41 <Gekz> I don't want to use the source luke if there's a simple answer.
1333 2011-06-04 14:53:47 <sytse> and, yes.
1334 2011-06-04 14:53:49 justmoon has joined
1335 2011-06-04 14:53:58 <sytse> db.h:class CWalletDB : public CDB
1336 2011-06-04 14:54:14 <sytse> class CDB
1337 2011-06-04 14:54:14 <sytse> {
1338 2011-06-04 14:54:14 <sytse> protected:
1339 2011-06-04 14:54:14 <sytse> Db* pdb;
1340 2011-06-04 14:55:21 <sytse> protected.. seriously. Shouldn't these variables be private, the methods be public and the inheritance be private?
1341 2011-06-04 14:55:40 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1342 2011-06-04 14:55:54 <Gekz> so it looks like a berkeley db, okay.
1343 2011-06-04 14:56:13 <Gekz> the source code for bitcoin is so fugly
1344 2011-06-04 14:56:28 <sipa> sytse: yes, should be - but there's so much to fix in the code organisation
1345 2011-06-04 14:56:44 <sytse> :)
1346 2011-06-04 14:56:46 <sipa> first some cleaner separation between modules is needed
1347 2011-06-04 14:57:02 <sytse> yes, that would be a higher priority
1348 2011-06-04 14:57:02 <Gekz> so why was bdb chosen over something like sqlite or xml?
1349 2011-06-04 14:57:18 <sipa> then we can start talking about moving to making everything nicely private and protected, with accessor functions
1350 2011-06-04 14:57:59 jimb0 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1351 2011-06-04 14:58:38 <sipa> Gekz: over sqlite: no idea - over xml: it doesn't really contain human-readable data, and needs consistent and atomic updating without re-writing the entire file each time
1352 2011-06-04 14:58:54 <sytse> indeed
1353 2011-06-04 14:58:54 <Gekz> okay.
1354 2011-06-04 14:59:04 <Gekz> I just know that bdb is a pain in the ass to use for most things
1355 2011-06-04 14:59:16 <Gekz> for instance, how would one merge two wallets?
1356 2011-06-04 14:59:20 <sytse> sqlite is too ;-)
1357 2011-06-04 14:59:36 <Gekz> without having to send everything from one to the other and disposing of the first?
1358 2011-06-04 14:59:41 <sytse> sqlite performance can be.. troubling afaik
1359 2011-06-04 15:00:13 karnac has joined
1360 2011-06-04 15:00:15 <Gekz> doesn't bdb have this habit of changing formats on different platforms and versions, too?
1361 2011-06-04 15:00:29 <sytse> (btw, I have had problems with sqlite losing integrity of the database after a crash, ie, my chrome session and settings disappeared)
1362 2011-06-04 15:00:36 <sytse> Gekz: yes.
1363 2011-06-04 15:01:15 <Gekz> I'm just wondering if there isn't a more platform-portable, useful format we could use instead of bdb
1364 2011-06-04 15:01:18 robin has joined
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1366 2011-06-04 15:01:22 <sytse> I know the enlightenment project switched away from using a system version of bdb a long time ago because of this
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1369 2011-06-04 15:02:05 <Gekz> I just worry that wallet corruption may become more prominent
1370 2011-06-04 15:02:05 <Gekz> >_>
1371 2011-06-04 15:05:54 <sytse> too bad boost doesn't have something simple but reliable and cross-platform for that
1372 2011-06-04 15:07:12 <sytse> although it's almost impossible to make it reliable on any os, kernel and filesystem I suppose
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1375 2011-06-04 15:09:34 <Gekz> sytse: not unless you invent yet another storage format :D
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1382 2011-06-04 15:12:33 <sipa> Gekz: merging two wallets is a pain anyway
1383 2011-06-04 15:12:38 <sipa> and splitting them is even harder
1384 2011-06-04 15:12:55 <sipa> you can't just do that without special intervention from a program that understands what data is in there
1385 2011-06-04 15:13:03 <Gekz> my understanding of the db is it essentially holds the key combination for each of the addresses and nothing more
1386 2011-06-04 15:13:07 <Gekz> is that a correct assessment?
1387 2011-06-04 15:13:27 <sipa> no
1388 2011-06-04 15:13:28 <Gekz> sipa: sure, but specialised SQL is easier than specialised "BDB" parsing haha
1389 2011-06-04 15:13:31 <sipa> it contains a lot of things
1390 2011-06-04 15:13:38 <Gekz> what else is in the wallet?
1391 2011-06-04 15:14:07 <sipa> private keys, known addresses, incoming and outgoing transactions, unconfirmed transactions, settings, information about the best known block chain
1392 2011-06-04 15:14:30 <sipa> it's really all personal data
1393 2011-06-04 15:16:40 <Gekz> client settings are stored in a db and not in a separate config file?
1394 2011-06-04 15:16:53 <Gekz> sounds like the db itself needs to be modularised :P
1395 2011-06-04 15:17:05 Xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1396 2011-06-04 15:17:44 <sipa> definitely
1397 2011-06-04 15:17:47 peck has joined
1398 2011-06-04 15:18:11 <lizthegrey> why can't it just be written as a plain text file?
1399 2011-06-04 15:18:27 <lizthegrey> at least as far as private keys and known addresses are concerned?
1400 2011-06-04 15:18:38 <Gekz> well, I was wondering that too
1401 2011-06-04 15:18:44 <Gekz> like ssh does
1402 2011-06-04 15:18:50 <sipa> 16:50:57 < sipa> Gekz: over sqlite: no idea - over xml: it doesn't really contain human-readable data, and needs consistent and atomic updating without re-writing the entire file each time
1403 2011-06-04 15:18:57 <Gekz> it would allow for a much more safe and platform independent manner of management
1404 2011-06-04 15:19:18 <Gekz> you can append to files
1405 2011-06-04 15:19:34 <sipa> you need more, like marking transactions spent
1406 2011-06-04 15:20:04 <sipa> i favor exporting/importing of wallets' essential information to/from human readable form over turning everything into a human readable form
1407 2011-06-04 15:21:08 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
1408 2011-06-04 15:21:09 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":17.41,"low":13,"vol":53370,"buy":17,"sell":17.092,"last":17}}
1409 2011-06-04 15:21:13 <JFK911> i cant believe this
1410 2011-06-04 15:21:23 vorlov has joined
1411 2011-06-04 15:23:16 kW_ has joined
1412 2011-06-04 15:23:25 <rlifchitz> where can i find the source code for the gribble bot?
1413 2011-06-04 15:23:32 <kW_> Hello! Can anyone tell which exact boost version is needed for compiling?
1414 2011-06-04 15:23:35 senderalpha__ has joined
1415 2011-06-04 15:24:03 <Gekz> sipa: actually, if you could simply EXPORT it into a safe format that can be imported
1416 2011-06-04 15:24:18 <sipa> Gekz: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/220
1417 2011-06-04 15:24:19 <Gekz> that would solve this problem entirely
1418 2011-06-04 15:24:49 <Gekz> well done
1419 2011-06-04 15:24:52 <Gekz> I can shut up now then
1420 2011-06-04 15:25:02 qwebirc28400 has joined
1421 2011-06-04 15:26:19 <sanity> my genetic algorithm has come up with this (to speculate successfully on the MtGox exchange): https://gist.github.com/1007968
1422 2011-06-04 15:26:50 <sanity> but this is based on only a few days of data (per-minute ticker samples) - I need a lot more :-(
1423 2011-06-04 15:28:20 Herodes has joined
1424 2011-06-04 15:30:31 <phantomcircuit> sanity, what is that?
1425 2011-06-04 15:30:32 blueadept has joined
1426 2011-06-04 15:30:39 <sipa> what are 'ticker samples' ?
1427 2011-06-04 15:30:39 <phantomcircuit> oh
1428 2011-06-04 15:30:49 <sanity> phantomcircuit: it is a computer program i evolved to speculate on mtgox
1429 2011-06-04 15:31:06 <sanity> sipa: just download https://mtgox.com/code/data/ticker.php once a minute
1430 2011-06-04 15:31:11 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, do you have complete records of activity on mtgox ?
1431 2011-06-04 15:31:19 <forrestv> sanity, that's awesome (:
1432 2011-06-04 15:31:34 <Gekz> what language is that
1433 2011-06-04 15:31:42 <Gekz> some kind of pseudolisp?
1434 2011-06-04 15:31:46 <sanity> Gekz: it is a domain-specific language I invented for this
1435 2011-06-04 15:32:01 <sanity> Gekz: it has a lot of primitive operators to-do with means and standard deviations etc
1436 2011-06-04 15:32:24 cacheson has joined
1437 2011-06-04 15:32:28 <sanity> my problem is that i only started logging data 3 days ago
1438 2011-06-04 15:32:46 <Gekz> why did you make a language just for this
1439 2011-06-04 15:32:47 <sanity> and so all the programs I evolve are variations on "be judicious about when you get in, but when you get in - stay in"
1440 2011-06-04 15:33:19 <sanity> Gekz: typically in genetic programming you want a language with primitives that relate to the problem domain.
1441 2011-06-04 15:33:47 <diki> hm..MS is buying Nvidia
1442 2011-06-04 15:33:49 <Gekz> I don't know what genetic programming is
1443 2011-06-04 15:33:51 <diki> i wonder what will happen
1444 2011-06-04 15:34:09 <Gekz> I assumed it was simply functional programming
1445 2011-06-04 15:34:11 <Gekz> MS buying nvidia?
1446 2011-06-04 15:34:13 <Gekz> oh ffs.
1447 2011-06-04 15:34:23 <diki> well, something along those lines anyway
1448 2011-06-04 15:34:47 inductor has joined
1449 2011-06-04 15:34:50 <diki> http://sg.news.yahoo.com/microsoft-pact-nvidia-could-result-future-takeover-070058453.html
1450 2011-06-04 15:34:55 <sanity> Gekz: basically you create a random population of simple algorithms, test them all on a problem, and combine and mutate the best ones to form the next generation. then repeat
1451 2011-06-04 15:36:20 <sanity> Gekz: this is what each generation looks like : https://gist.github.com/1007982
1452 2011-06-04 15:36:44 <Gekz> ugliest syntax ever
1453 2011-06-04 15:36:46 <sanity> Gekz: the second column indicates the profit, eg. .96 means 4% increase in revenue per day
1454 2011-06-04 15:36:50 * Gekz nods
1455 2011-06-04 15:36:53 <sanity> Gekz: its not designed to be human readable
1456 2011-06-04 15:37:06 <sanity> Gekz: or human writeable
1457 2011-06-04 15:37:06 <sipa> sanity: i have a sample of https://mtgox.com/code/data/getDepth.php (almost) every minute from the past few months
1458 2011-06-04 15:37:22 cacheson has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1459 2011-06-04 15:37:32 <sanity> sipa: oh? can I infer buy/sell/last/volume from that data?
1460 2011-06-04 15:37:43 <sipa> no
1461 2011-06-04 15:37:52 <sanity> sipa: what exactly does that data show?
1462 2011-06-04 15:38:05 <sipa> the amounts and price points of all bids and asks
1463 2011-06-04 15:38:31 <sipa> you can derive which amount you could sell/buy at which price
1464 2011-06-04 15:38:33 <sipa> from it
1465 2011-06-04 15:38:35 <sanity> sipa: so what would be a good way to estimate the price for any given sample?
1466 2011-06-04 15:38:37 <sipa> but not actual sales
1467 2011-06-04 15:39:06 michael_boy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1468 2011-06-04 15:39:18 <sanity> sipa: but presumably if there is a bid higher than an ask, then a sale occurs - right?
1469 2011-06-04 15:39:26 <sipa> yes
1470 2011-06-04 15:39:43 <sanity> sipa: so for each of these, all bids must be lower than all asks?
1471 2011-06-04 15:39:44 michael_boy has joined
1472 2011-06-04 15:39:46 <sipa> indeed
1473 2011-06-04 15:40:08 <sanity> sipa: so you could estimate the price to be half way between the highest bid and the lowest ask?
1474 2011-06-04 15:40:11 <sipa> i used it to generate this graph, but it's outdated and buggy: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/mtgox.png
1475 2011-06-04 15:40:26 <sipa> sanity: i don't think "price" is a meaningful concept for what you're doing
1476 2011-06-04 15:40:42 <sanity> sipa: what inputs would you provide?
1477 2011-06-04 15:40:59 <sipa> the lines in the graph i showed you
1478 2011-06-04 15:41:01 <sanity> eg. max/min/stddev/mean of the bids and the asks?
1479 2011-06-04 15:41:15 <sanity> ah, what exactly do those mean?
1480 2011-06-04 15:42:11 eao has joined
1481 2011-06-04 15:42:16 <sipa> the 1000-BTC ask line represents how much you'd at most pay on average per BTC, if you'd buy 1000 BTC
1482 2011-06-04 15:42:42 <sanity> sipa: and, sorry if i'm being stupid, but how are you calculating that from the getDepth data?
1483 2011-06-04 15:43:26 <sipa> if someone offers 750 BTC at 10 USD each, and someone offers 500 BTC at 12 USD each, you'd pay 750*10+250*12 USD for 1000 BTC
1484 2011-06-04 15:43:47 Phoebus_ has joined
1485 2011-06-04 15:43:49 <sipa> so that's (750*10+250*12)/1000 USD per BTC
1486 2011-06-04 15:44:33 <sanity> sipa: got it
1487 2011-06-04 15:44:41 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1488 2011-06-04 15:44:47 <sanity> sipa: so are you willing to share the data with me? i'd be most grateful
1489 2011-06-04 15:44:54 <sipa> sure
1490 2011-06-04 15:44:56 Phoebus_ is now known as Phoebus
1491 2011-06-04 15:45:15 <sanity> sipa: if it works I'd be happy to trade some coins on your behalf with it
1492 2011-06-04 15:46:06 Castorr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1493 2011-06-04 15:47:21 michael_boy has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1494 2011-06-04 15:49:07 quellhorst has joined
1495 2011-06-04 15:49:14 <quellhorst> what is a good gfx card to get today?
1496 2011-06-04 15:49:25 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1497 2011-06-04 15:49:57 <thermal> the mt gox api should accept an api token rather than user/pass
1498 2011-06-04 15:50:01 ar4s has joined
1499 2011-06-04 15:50:18 <thermal> might be a bit more secure
1500 2011-06-04 15:50:57 <thermal> would reduce chance of whole account being compromised
1501 2011-06-04 15:54:09 chris200x9 has joined
1502 2011-06-04 15:55:34 lumos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1503 2011-06-04 15:56:23 Gekz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1504 2011-06-04 15:56:33 <somecoiner> thermal: the API is HTTPS?
1505 2011-06-04 15:57:55 <sytse> https is not an API
1506 2011-06-04 15:58:03 <roconnor> thermal: api token?
1507 2011-06-04 15:59:31 <somecoiner> Excuse my shortness... Is the API required to be over HTTPS, or just HTTP?
1508 2011-06-04 16:00:21 Gekz has joined
1509 2011-06-04 16:00:31 <sytse> roconnor: I think he means something akin to twitter's API authentication, with a key per app
1510 2011-06-04 16:00:32 <somecoiner> The whole API, not just login
1511 2011-06-04 16:01:41 <sytse> according to https://mtgox.com/support/tradeAPI , public data goes over http, and personal data requires an ssl connectoin
1512 2011-06-04 16:02:10 <somecoiner> If the API is already secure, I do not think adding a a tken will make things more secure. It is just more complex.
1513 2011-06-04 16:02:17 <sytse> too bad the API is not RESTful, even by a stretch
1514 2011-06-04 16:02:20 <somecoiner> ^adding a token
1515 2011-06-04 16:02:34 KingMartin has joined
1516 2011-06-04 16:04:15 <sanity> the API isn't great - the documentation implies they are GET requests, but actually they are POST
1517 2011-06-04 16:04:39 JRWR has quit ()
1518 2011-06-04 16:04:57 <sytse> sanity: no, the documentation explicitly mentions that you have to use POST
1519 2011-06-04 16:05:11 <sanity> sytse: i know, but its contradictory - the examples imply its a GET
1520 2011-06-04 16:05:40 <sytse> somecoiner: one advantage of the current approach, is that apps can just ask the user for a username/password and be done with it, simpler for the user. The problem is that it's hard to trust apps this way; twitter's model is to have the user log in once using a browser, after which the application can set up a trust relationship with the server using PKI
1521 2011-06-04 16:05:49 <sytse> sanity: oh, indeed.
1522 2011-06-04 16:06:58 <sytse> sanity: well, iirc there are two ways of doing a POST with parameters; by sending the parameters in the body, or by sending them in the URL as in a GET
1523 2011-06-04 16:07:44 <sytse> apparently the official way of doing it with the mtgox api is the latter method, which is usually used in RESTful APIs too
1524 2011-06-04 16:08:18 <sanity> sytse: well, you can use GET style parameters with a POST I suppose, but that doesn't work with the mtgox API - I tried it
1525 2011-06-04 16:08:39 <sanity> sytse: not for passing username and password anyway
1526 2011-06-04 16:08:49 <sytse> hmmm
1527 2011-06-04 16:09:03 <sytse> then the documentation is plain wrong :)
1528 2011-06-04 16:09:10 <sanity> sytse: yup :-)
1529 2011-06-04 16:09:19 ZOP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1530 2011-06-04 16:09:24 <sytse> (also, the API itself sucks)
1531 2011-06-04 16:09:32 <sanity> sytse: yeah, its not great - but it works
1532 2011-06-04 16:10:05 <sanity> someone really needs to figure out a faster way to get $$$ into MtGox than Dwolla - its slow as heck
1533 2011-06-04 16:10:18 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1534 2011-06-04 16:10:22 <sanity> which is particularly annoying while you see the price increasing :-)
1535 2011-06-04 16:10:36 Kurtov has joined
1536 2011-06-04 16:12:37 omes has joined
1537 2011-06-04 16:13:29 <sytse> sanity: selling bitcoins is a fast way to get $$$ into MtGox, but I suppose that wasn't what you wanted to hear ;-)
1538 2011-06-04 16:13:30 <omes> is there a guide for mining BTCs on linux (Debian) with a radeon card? (Xpost #bitcoin-mining)
1539 2011-06-04 16:13:41 blueadept has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1540 2011-06-04 16:14:06 blueadept has joined
1541 2011-06-04 16:14:58 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1542 2011-06-04 16:15:25 <MasterChief> whats the best way to get GBP on gox?
1543 2011-06-04 16:15:35 lizbtcminer has joined
1544 2011-06-04 16:15:56 cacheson has joined
1545 2011-06-04 16:16:14 <diki> fucking spiders...
1546 2011-06-04 16:16:16 <diki> i hate spiders
1547 2011-06-04 16:16:25 <lizbtcminer> hi, i need to know where i can get the patch or somesuch to get an ati graphics card to mine with open CL?
1548 2011-06-04 16:16:36 <diki> patch??
1549 2011-06-04 16:16:43 <diki> there is no patch lol
1550 2011-06-04 16:16:47 <lizbtcminer> or whatever it's called >.<
1551 2011-06-04 16:16:49 <diki> every miner supports OpenCL
1552 2011-06-04 16:16:57 <cacheson> lizbtcminer: what OS?
1553 2011-06-04 16:16:57 <lizbtcminer> sorry i'm trying to hep someone
1554 2011-06-04 16:16:58 <diki> poclbm,phoenix,diablominer
1555 2011-06-04 16:17:21 <lizbtcminer> they are running the GIUMiner
1556 2011-06-04 16:17:22 <lizbtcminer> GUI*
1557 2011-06-04 16:17:28 <diki> guiminer uses poclbm
1558 2011-06-04 16:17:36 <diki> which uses opencl if the card supports it
1559 2011-06-04 16:17:39 <diki> where is the problemo?
1560 2011-06-04 16:17:47 <lizbtcminer> it said his graphics card migt not work
1561 2011-06-04 16:17:55 <diki> who said that?
1562 2011-06-04 16:17:58 <cacheson> lizbtcminer: what card?
1563 2011-06-04 16:17:58 <lizbtcminer> he's running an ati
1564 2011-06-04 16:18:09 <diki> erm...what model ati?
1565 2011-06-04 16:18:19 <lizbtcminer> hold on
1566 2011-06-04 16:18:23 <lizbtcminer> getting info :)
1567 2011-06-04 16:18:40 <cacheson> it needs to be at least an HD 4xxx card for openCL to work
1568 2011-06-04 16:18:53 chris200x9 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1569 2011-06-04 16:18:54 <diki> no, it needs to be at least above 4200 and not a mobile card
1570 2011-06-04 16:18:54 <tommygunner> lizbtcminer: get the guy on irc :)
1571 2011-06-04 16:19:12 <lizbtcminer> Radeon HD 5000-something he says
1572 2011-06-04 16:19:21 <lizbtcminer> i think ewh ave it fixed...
1573 2011-06-04 16:19:22 <cacheson> should work
1574 2011-06-04 16:19:26 <diki> all of the hd5k series support opencl
1575 2011-06-04 16:19:29 <lizbtcminer> ok
1576 2011-06-04 16:19:30 <diki> but be more specific
1577 2011-06-04 16:19:31 <lizbtcminer> cool beans
1578 2011-06-04 16:19:34 <diki> if his card is slow...
1579 2011-06-04 16:19:40 <lizbtcminer> just a sec he's going into dev. manager
1580 2011-06-04 16:19:48 <diki> lolo
1581 2011-06-04 16:19:56 <diki> You use GPU-Z for this
1582 2011-06-04 16:20:03 <lizbtcminer> gpu-z?
1583 2011-06-04 16:20:14 <diki> a program which gives detailed info on the card
1584 2011-06-04 16:20:20 <diki> everything basically
1585 2011-06-04 16:21:23 <lizbtcminer> he's just getting everything set up... i gave him the geeks3d gpu caps viewer
1586 2011-06-04 16:21:38 sytse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1587 2011-06-04 16:21:42 sytse has joined
1588 2011-06-04 16:22:30 <diki> now, who said his card might not work?
1589 2011-06-04 16:22:42 Herodes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1590 2011-06-04 16:24:03 DukeOfURL has joined
1591 2011-06-04 16:24:24 eTS-[a] is now known as BGL
1592 2011-06-04 16:24:43 <diki> ....this should have been set up by now
1593 2011-06-04 16:25:45 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1594 2011-06-04 16:26:05 <lizbtcminer> the program said his card might not work
1595 2011-06-04 16:26:31 <lizbtcminer> the GUIMiner.... his gpu isn't fast enough -.-;
1596 2011-06-04 16:26:44 <diki> then we need a more specific model
1597 2011-06-04 16:26:45 <lizbtcminer> it's an hd 3200
1598 2011-06-04 16:26:50 <diki> lololo
1599 2011-06-04 16:26:53 <lizbtcminer> lol
1600 2011-06-04 16:26:56 <diki> that card will not work ever
1601 2011-06-04 16:27:03 <lizbtcminer> ok
1602 2011-06-04 16:27:04 <diki> even if it did, it's an HD3200
1603 2011-06-04 16:27:14 <diki> it wouldnt even support opencl, which it doesnt
1604 2011-06-04 16:27:21 caedes has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1605 2011-06-04 16:27:33 <lizbtcminer> he has other computers tho so i guess we can try those...
1606 2011-06-04 16:27:48 <diki> the graphics card must be 100% ati, and above HD 4200
1607 2011-06-04 16:27:52 <chuck> is anyone familiar with the bitcoin protocol/network?
1608 2011-06-04 16:27:56 <diki> well, the HD4k series are still slow
1609 2011-06-04 16:28:08 <lizbtcminer> ok what about nvidia?
1610 2011-06-04 16:28:12 npt has joined
1611 2011-06-04 16:28:14 <diki> so if he has something above an HD 5770, then he is good to go
1612 2011-06-04 16:28:18 <diki> nvidia suck at mining bitcoins
1613 2011-06-04 16:28:20 <lizbtcminer> hold on he's coming in...
1614 2011-06-04 16:28:22 <diki> it will never be worth it
1615 2011-06-04 16:28:37 <lizbtcminer> yeah i know they do but if it's all you've got... hell i have $7.35 USD already from mining only 3 days
1616 2011-06-04 16:28:45 <lizbtcminer> but that's because of the market increase :D
1617 2011-06-04 16:28:56 <diki> what card do you got
1618 2011-06-04 16:29:07 <lizbtcminer> nvidia geforce 8600 M GS
1619 2011-06-04 16:29:14 <diki> that is even worse...
1620 2011-06-04 16:29:25 <diki> no need to continue, you are wasting precious electricity
1621 2011-06-04 16:29:33 <diki> which you cannot pay with mining
1622 2011-06-04 16:29:39 <npt> so I have a Radeon HD 3200, is there any program that will generate bitcoins on here or no?
1623 2011-06-04 16:29:46 <diki> nope
1624 2011-06-04 16:29:50 <diki> 3200 does not support opencl
1625 2011-06-04 16:29:51 <tommygunner> no opencl
1626 2011-06-04 16:29:57 <diki> moreover it's an integrated card afaik
1627 2011-06-04 16:30:08 <diki> it would have never worked either way
1628 2011-06-04 16:30:08 <npt> yes
1629 2011-06-04 16:30:09 <npt> tis
1630 2011-06-04 16:30:33 <diki> if you have something along the lines of a 5770 and above
1631 2011-06-04 16:30:41 <diki> start mining, if you dont...
1632 2011-06-04 16:30:43 <diki> tough
1633 2011-06-04 16:30:57 <chuck> No-one knows about the protocol? lol
1634 2011-06-04 16:31:13 <lizbtcminer> chuck what protocol?
1635 2011-06-04 16:31:22 cdecker has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1636 2011-06-04 16:31:44 cdecker has joined
1637 2011-06-04 16:31:58 <chuck> lizbtcminer, the bitcoin protocol
1638 2011-06-04 16:32:02 <diki> chuck:the ones that know it best are Bluematt,sipa,gaving etc
1639 2011-06-04 16:32:12 <diki> aka the leaders of the bitcoin developments and a few users here and there
1640 2011-06-04 16:34:36 Akiron has joined
1641 2011-06-04 16:34:58 <Akiron> does anyone know of a way to get the volume weighted mt gox price via JSON (or otherwise)?
1642 2011-06-04 16:36:05 XX01XX has quit ()
1643 2011-06-04 16:39:17 <npt> so what is the slowest nvidia that will mine?
1644 2011-06-04 16:39:31 <npt> and also the slowest ati
1645 2011-06-04 16:39:59 <JFK911> 8500gt mines
1646 2011-06-04 16:40:02 <diki> check here
1647 2011-06-04 16:40:03 <diki> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
1648 2011-06-04 16:40:03 <jivvz> npt this page is very nice https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison
1649 2011-06-04 16:40:09 <npt> thanks guys : )
1650 2011-06-04 16:40:10 <jivvz> ouch
1651 2011-06-04 16:40:57 karnac has joined
1652 2011-06-04 16:42:40 <lizbtcminer> so if the 3200 isn't compatible, why is it listed on the mining hardware comparison page?
1653 2011-06-04 16:43:10 ZOP has joined
1654 2011-06-04 16:43:35 <tommygunner> as a bad example :)
1655 2011-06-04 16:44:01 <lizbtcminer> rather misleading if you ask me but okay :)
1656 2011-06-04 16:44:59 <lolcat> Is mining profitable again?
1657 2011-06-04 16:47:48 lizbtcminer has left ()
1658 2011-06-04 16:48:21 mmoya has joined
1659 2011-06-04 16:50:00 <diki> ...no need to ask
1660 2011-06-04 16:50:37 Titeuf_87 has joined
1661 2011-06-04 16:50:54 Mononofu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1662 2011-06-04 16:50:56 caedes has joined
1663 2011-06-04 16:52:46 <npt> so - point being - a pc with a 3200 in it can only do cpu mining, which I assume is not worth the electricity then?
1664 2011-06-04 16:53:29 <jivvz> not with current price... but if you want to speculate in higher exchange rates....
1665 2011-06-04 16:53:57 <npt> meaning if I think it's going higher than the 17.xx USD or whatever it is now?
1666 2011-06-04 16:54:01 <sipa> jivvz: in that case you should buy instead of mine
1667 2011-06-04 16:54:02 <npt> sorry I am VERY new to this
1668 2011-06-04 16:54:15 <jivvz> that's true sipa... if you have the capital
1669 2011-06-04 16:54:21 <npt> so when was this big jump I just heard about
1670 2011-06-04 16:54:27 <npt> from like 10 to 17 or something
1671 2011-06-04 16:55:03 matija has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1672 2011-06-04 16:55:35 <diki> yeah
1673 2011-06-04 16:55:41 Superbest has joined
1674 2011-06-04 16:55:44 <diki> big jump...but it will surely fall in no time
1675 2011-06-04 16:56:15 <npt> diki: is it worth doing cpu mining?
1676 2011-06-04 16:56:17 <npt> at all?
1677 2011-06-04 16:56:35 <npt> or just total fail on the electricity costs
1678 2011-06-04 16:56:52 GarrettB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1679 2011-06-04 16:57:11 <sipa> jivvz: just sbuy with the money you'd otherwise spend on electricity for cpu mining
1680 2011-06-04 16:57:18 <sipa> -s
1681 2011-06-04 16:57:22 <diki> npt:total fail if you ask me
1682 2011-06-04 16:57:33 <jivvz> what i meant is if you only have a cpu and no money
1683 2011-06-04 16:57:40 <diki> cause most pools check your last share vs new share and deduct/add if needed
1684 2011-06-04 16:57:48 <diki> in your case it's gonna be slow to even make one share
1685 2011-06-04 16:57:54 <sipa> then don't mine at all
1686 2011-06-04 16:57:59 Superbest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1689 2011-06-04 16:59:28 <jivvz> well its math, no point arguing. the advice should be to not mine.
1690 2011-06-04 17:00:46 Nicksasa has quit (Quit: BNC Failed.)
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1693 2011-06-04 17:04:16 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,gen 16000
1694 2011-06-04 17:04:17 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 16000 Khps, given current difficulty of 434882.7217497 , is 0.0370059634115 BTC per day and 0.00154191514214 BTC per hour.
1695 2011-06-04 17:04:57 Mononofu has joined
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1700 2011-06-04 17:07:17 <cyberdo> how come the testnet spawns so few blocks?
1701 2011-06-04 17:07:44 <phantomcircuit> the difficulty keeps going up
1702 2011-06-04 17:07:59 <phantomcircuit> which is stupid as fuck
1703 2011-06-04 17:08:15 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,mtgox
1704 2011-06-04 17:08:15 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":17.41,"low":13,"vol":53406,"buy":17.2,"sell":17.26,"last":17.2}}
1705 2011-06-04 17:08:32 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, you there?
1706 2011-06-04 17:09:06 <BitterTea> phantomcircuit: Didn't mean to PM that. What do you mean stupid as fuck? It will catch up to the exchange rate.
1707 2011-06-04 17:09:17 <phantomcircuit> BitterTea, testnet
1708 2011-06-04 17:09:31 Mononofu has left ()
1709 2011-06-04 17:09:38 <BitterTea> Ah, ok
1710 2011-06-04 17:09:50 <phantomcircuit> jivvz, 0.00154191514214 BTC * 17.41 USD/BTC > x USD/kWh * 130 W * 1 hour
1711 2011-06-04 17:10:10 <phantomcircuit> oh god
1712 2011-06-04 17:10:14 <phantomcircuit> it's linear algebra
1713 2011-06-04 17:10:20 <phantomcircuit> knew i should have paid attention tot hat
1714 2011-06-04 17:11:37 <phantomcircuit> so cpu mining is still profitable so long as your power costs are < 0.000206498 USD/kWh
1715 2011-06-04 17:11:40 <phantomcircuit> hehe
1716 2011-06-04 17:12:35 <GarrettB> phantomcircuit: solar ftw :D
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1720 2011-06-04 17:15:15 <phantomcircuit> GarrettB, wat, lol solar is about 100x that
1721 2011-06-04 17:15:37 <cyberdo> phantomcircuit: but the difficulty is about 39... which should give each one of my nodes a block each 18 hours. It has however generated 1-3 blocks/hour the last few hours
1722 2011-06-04 17:15:53 <phantomcircuit> why not just ask someone to send you testnet coins?
1723 2011-06-04 17:16:07 <cyberdo> on the other hand... who would waste SPU on the testnet when there's money to earn from the real one ;o)
1724 2011-06-04 17:16:27 <cyberdo> phantomcircuit: I have coins now, but transactions take forever to be confirmed
1725 2011-06-04 17:16:36 <phantomcircuit> oh
1726 2011-06-04 17:16:43 <phantomcircuit> yeah someone pumped the difficulty up
1727 2011-06-04 17:16:48 <phantomcircuit> it really should just be fixed at 1
1728 2011-06-04 17:16:55 <phantomcircuit> or reset every 100 blocks or something
1729 2011-06-04 17:16:56 <npt> so question if I hit generate on the bitcoin.org wallet
1730 2011-06-04 17:17:07 <npt> is it just using my cpu then?
1731 2011-06-04 17:17:08 * ArtForz walks away whistling
1732 2011-06-04 17:17:21 <npt> must be, I suppose.
1733 2011-06-04 17:17:25 <Akiron> is there a channel for crypto nerds?
1734 2011-06-04 17:17:31 <phantomcircuit> ##crypto
1735 2011-06-04 17:17:32 <npt> dumb ?, sorry.
1736 2011-06-04 17:17:34 <phantomcircuit> of course
1737 2011-06-04 17:17:34 <cyberdo> npt: yes
1738 2011-06-04 17:17:44 <phantomcircuit> ArtForz, lol
1739 2011-06-04 17:18:23 tomcat9 has joined
1740 2011-06-04 17:18:27 <npt> is there a bitcoin homebrew for ps3, I wonder?
1741 2011-06-04 17:26:17 lumos has joined
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1744 2011-06-04 17:27:38 <phantomcircuit> GarrettB, solar is about 0.25 USD/kWh, so no that would be a terrible plan
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1751 2011-06-04 17:34:46 <jgarzik> sipa: great summary of upcoming pulls / versions
1752 2011-06-04 17:34:49 GarrettB has joined
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1755 2011-06-04 17:34:55 <jgarzik> sipa: pretty much agree 100% with your list
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1766 2011-06-04 17:54:37 <thermal> i created a Windows Gadget that displays live BTC currency value using the Mt Gox feed if anyone's interested: https://github.com/thermal/BitcoinCurrency.Gadget/blob/master/images/btc-gadget-screenshot.png
1767 2011-06-04 17:55:13 <thermal> for quick install: http://www.digital.com.au/files/gadgets/BitcoinCurrency.gadget
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1770 2011-06-04 17:57:15 <quellhorst> whats the best value video card for mining now?
1771 2011-06-04 17:58:14 eamon has joined
1772 2011-06-04 17:58:41 <eamon> Has there been any discussion regarding lowering the minimum 0.01 BTC tx fee?
1773 2011-06-04 17:59:03 <ArtForz> *headdesk*
1774 2011-06-04 17:59:43 <JFK911> there has been a word or two said about it
1775 2011-06-04 17:59:52 <JFK911> but it doesnt matter since the next release wont be for at least 8 months
1776 2011-06-04 18:00:31 <sipa> please
1777 2011-06-04 18:01:11 <JFK911> unless something got released and then nobody updated the topic here
1778 2011-06-04 18:01:13 <eamon> Maybe a new version should be released sooner
1779 2011-06-04 18:01:57 <eamon> I'm not sure this kind of growth was anticipated
1780 2011-06-04 18:02:20 <JFK911> right im boycotting bitcoin until the fee is fixed
1781 2011-06-04 18:02:55 <eamon> "Bitcoin Development - We're here to help develop the Bitcoin system. All related discussions are welcome."
1782 2011-06-04 18:04:11 caedes has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1783 2011-06-04 18:04:37 <doublec> both fees and making more digits available have been discussed for months
1784 2011-06-04 18:05:50 <eamon> Is there a client I can use where I can make a tx with no/low fees?
1785 2011-06-04 18:06:16 zyb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1786 2011-06-04 18:06:40 <doublec> latest git is low fees isn't it?
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1788 2011-06-04 18:06:59 <sipa> doublec: no, not yet
1789 2011-06-04 18:07:01 <eamon> I have no idea, I'm just a user.
1790 2011-06-04 18:07:04 <ArtForz> nope
1791 2011-06-04 18:07:20 <ArtForz> fee for accepting was lowered to 0.0005 in git, sending is still 0.01
1792 2011-06-04 18:07:21 <sipa> the problem is relaying of low-fee transactions
1793 2011-06-04 18:07:26 <ArtForz> yep
1794 2011-06-04 18:07:44 <thermal> is the bitcoin wallet handled by the client or the service/daemon?
1795 2011-06-04 18:07:51 <ArtForz> so we'll have to wait until 0.3.22 is out and enough people upgreaded before lowering send to 0.0005, too
1796 2011-06-04 18:08:00 <doublec> ah right
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1798 2011-06-04 18:08:18 <sipa> thermal: those are the same
1799 2011-06-04 18:08:25 <eamon> I like to leave my bitcoin client off except when making or receiving payments. Is this bad for the network?
1800 2011-06-04 18:08:35 <sipa> no
1801 2011-06-04 18:08:50 <doublec> it's a pain having to wait for the blocks to download though
1802 2011-06-04 18:08:57 <thermal> sipa: i thought the client was separate and interfaced with the bitcoind via RPC?
1803 2011-06-04 18:09:02 <sipa> no
1804 2011-06-04 18:09:05 <vegard> is the fee enforced only in the gui? I made transactions yesterday with no fee, it worked perfectly (took about 1 hour to get 6 confirms)
1805 2011-06-04 18:09:13 <eamon> i rathar wait for the downloads than have my HDD thrashed
1806 2011-06-04 18:09:30 <sipa> vegard: rpc and gui have exactly the same rules
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1808 2011-06-04 18:10:02 <vegard> sipa: then what is the "minimum tx fee" you are discussing?
1809 2011-06-04 18:10:13 <thermal> totally confused now :/
1810 2011-06-04 18:10:27 Cusipzzz has joined
1811 2011-06-04 18:10:59 <sipa> vegard: the rules are a bit convoluted now, some transactions can still be sent for free
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1814 2011-06-04 18:11:57 <eamon> Is there a page to explain it?
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1825 2011-06-04 18:26:49 <luke-jr> thermal: Spesmilo is
1826 2011-06-04 18:26:52 <luke-jr> [14:01:15] <thermal> sipa: i thought the client was separate and interfaced with the bitcoind via RPC?
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1829 2011-06-04 18:27:29 <sipa> sure, but i assume that with "the client" he was referring to the wxwindows gui
1830 2011-06-04 18:28:07 <luke-jr> probably, given that he just made a statement implying MtGox price = the price
1831 2011-06-04 18:28:34 legion050 has joined
1832 2011-06-04 18:28:52 <sipa> indeed, "the" is rarely the only possibility in bitcoin :)
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1841 2011-06-04 18:40:52 <thermal> never know how specific i have to be :/
1842 2011-06-04 18:41:08 <thermal> i figure if i'm specific enough, people will get the idea :)
1843 2011-06-04 18:41:31 <thermal> and yes, i was referring to the wxwindows gui
1844 2011-06-04 18:42:28 <sipa> thermal: bitcoind is exactly the same as the gui, but with the wxwindows part stripped, and -server on by default
1845 2011-06-04 18:42:37 <sipa> but the gui program also contains the rpc code
1846 2011-06-04 18:42:38 <thermal> ah, i see
1847 2011-06-04 18:42:50 <sipa> though you have to enable it with -server
1848 2011-06-04 18:43:44 <thermal> are there many people running the bitcoind on dedicated servers?
1849 2011-06-04 18:45:01 <thermal> that would be ideal... if many dedicated servers were acting as peers rather than connection-intermittent consumer internet connections
1850 2011-06-04 18:46:33 <thermal> but i suppose the design of the protocol still requires peers have the latest block chains
1851 2011-06-04 18:47:00 <thermal> am i totally off here? or am i making some sense?
1852 2011-06-04 18:47:22 BitVector has joined
1853 2011-06-04 18:47:42 <sipa> the protocol requires very little
1854 2011-06-04 18:48:17 <sipa> if you want to serve getwork() to miners, you do need to full block chain, as you want to make sure you're generating valid blocks
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1859 2011-06-04 18:49:54 <thermal> ah..
1860 2011-06-04 18:50:45 <sipa> and in practice, the current default client doesn't support anything but being a full node, i.e. having the full block chain
1861 2011-06-04 18:51:07 midnightmagic has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1862 2011-06-04 18:51:52 <thermal> just reading through the code. perhaps consider resolving either the "see the accompanying file license.txt" reference in each file heading or the referenced file itself
1863 2011-06-04 18:52:53 <phantomcircuit> ;;seen MagicalTux
1864 2011-06-04 18:52:54 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 6 hours, 10 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> pong
1865 2011-06-04 18:52:58 <phantomcircuit> sigh
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1872 2011-06-04 18:59:34 <chuck> do you guys think there would be any interest in a service like paypal but for bitcoin, aimed at consumers that aren't power users like most bitcoin users currently are?
1873 2011-06-04 19:00:24 <thermal> what's with the hardcoded values at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1725 ?
1874 2011-06-04 19:00:45 <thermal> chuck: most definitely
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1876 2011-06-04 19:01:37 <thermal> i think reducing the difficulty in actually obtaining bitcoins would be popular, too
1877 2011-06-04 19:02:03 <mtrlt> well, convince miners to stop :p
1878 2011-06-04 19:02:19 <chuck> thermal, i definitely agree, I tried to purchase some bitcoins today and the state of exchanges in the bitcoin community is a bit of a clusterfuck
1879 2011-06-04 19:02:20 <thermal> i mean besides mining :)
1880 2011-06-04 19:02:37 <thermal> yeah a lot of people have told me the same thing
1881 2011-06-04 19:02:42 <mtrlt> hmm yea i only have experience from finland. using SEPA payments was very easy :p
1882 2011-06-04 19:03:18 <thermal> best thing i can think of to get around the whole non-revocable transactions vs revocable transactions is to only accept verified paypal accounts and other similar checks
1883 2011-06-04 19:04:02 <thermal> but i'm not sure on what paypal's stance on bitcoin is :/
1884 2011-06-04 19:04:08 GarrettB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1885 2011-06-04 19:04:27 <mtrlt> they don't like currency exchange
1886 2011-06-04 19:04:50 <chuck> i was thinking some sort of hosted bitcoin service that would handle transactions for consumers and provide extra features like keeping track of bitcoin addresses, etc etc, and then services for merchants to make it easier for them to accept bitcoins in an automated manner
1887 2011-06-04 19:05:07 <thermal> one solution could be to still require a verified paypal account, and also require a facebook account, twitter account etc... then accept credit card
1888 2011-06-04 19:05:09 GarrettB has joined
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1891 2011-06-04 19:05:15 <thermal> that should greatly reduce chargebacks
1892 2011-06-04 19:05:42 sethsethseth___ has joined
1893 2011-06-04 19:05:47 <denisx> I have generated a block on the testnet and I can also see this block in blockexplorer, but it seems that I don't have the adress where it was send to. where can I find it, I see the generated blocks with listtransactions
1894 2011-06-04 19:05:52 <chuck> why aren't there any exchanges that just accept credit?
1895 2011-06-04 19:06:02 <ArtForz> chargeback fraud
1896 2011-06-04 19:06:26 <thermal> chuck: combined with the fact that bitcoin transactions are permanent
1897 2011-06-04 19:06:43 <chuck> hmm
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1899 2011-06-04 19:07:14 <forrestv> thermal, those are checkpoints in the blockchain
1900 2011-06-04 19:07:23 <forrestv> they're all long past and fact
1901 2011-06-04 19:07:25 * thermal envisions an internet-based credit check business (social media styles)
1902 2011-06-04 19:07:28 temphuman has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
1903 2011-06-04 19:07:35 <forrestv> anybody can verify that
1904 2011-06-04 19:07:43 Matson has joined
1905 2011-06-04 19:07:45 <thermal> oh i see
1906 2011-06-04 19:07:50 <Matson> does the client broadcast your bitcoin address?
1907 2011-06-04 19:08:01 <Matson> more importantly, could someone compile a mapping from ip->bitcoin address seen on the network?
1908 2011-06-04 19:08:04 <forrestv> Matson, no
1909 2011-06-04 19:08:13 <thermal> is that so the client doesn't need the entire block chain sort of thing?
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1912 2011-06-04 19:08:33 <forrestv> thermal, well, no, it's just to make sure nothing crazy is happening
1913 2011-06-04 19:08:36 <sanity> does MtGox's 0.65% fee come out of the amount you buy/sell, or is it in addition to it?
1914 2011-06-04 19:08:40 <thermal> i see
1915 2011-06-04 19:08:41 <forrestv> you still need the entire blockchain
1916 2011-06-04 19:08:46 <sanity> also, is it taken from both buyer and seller?
1917 2011-06-04 19:08:53 <ArtForz> sanity: yes
1918 2011-06-04 19:09:07 <sanity> ArtForz: yes to what?
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1920 2011-06-04 19:09:13 <ArtForz> seller ends up with 99.35% USD, buyer with 99.35% BTC
1921 2011-06-04 19:09:23 <chuck> forrestv, are you familiar with the bitcoin procotol?
1922 2011-06-04 19:09:26 <forrestv> chuck, very.
1923 2011-06-04 19:09:46 <sanity> ArtForz: ok, thanks
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1926 2011-06-04 19:10:21 <chuck> forrestv, i'm looking into a ruby implementation, can you explain a little bit about how clients communicate with each other? like when a client wants to connect to the network, what does it have to do?
1927 2011-06-04 19:10:26 ErryDayImHustlin is now known as errydayimgenerat
1928 2011-06-04 19:10:35 <thermal> there should be a way to buy BTC at a high enough cost to cover the associated risk
1929 2011-06-04 19:11:19 <jgarzik> thermal: the cost to the seller is 100% :)
1930 2011-06-04 19:11:47 <thermal> only on the transactions that are charged back :)
1931 2011-06-04 19:11:55 <jgarzik> thermal: there aren't enough good people willing to pay high prices to fund evil people
1932 2011-06-04 19:12:19 <jgarzik> Evil Dude Money Fund
1933 2011-06-04 19:12:23 <forrestv> chuck, it tries to find peers to connect to on port 8333 using irc and a builtin list of peers
1934 2011-06-04 19:12:26 <jgarzik> sponsored by: the Good Guys
1935 2011-06-04 19:12:44 <forrestv> chuck, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_Specification is really helpful (and mostly accurate)
1936 2011-06-04 19:12:50 <thermal> well, considering the frequent media exposure, there might be enough demand for people to pay a premium for that convenience
1937 2011-06-04 19:13:09 <thermal> especially if you can get the risk down with stuff like social media (twitter/facebook) account checks
1938 2011-06-04 19:13:11 <chuck> forrestv, so it finds any peer and connects to it on port 8333 and sends a version message?
1939 2011-06-04 19:13:18 <forrestv> chuck, yep
1940 2011-06-04 19:13:19 <thermal> but, i'm just speculating :)
1941 2011-06-04 19:13:44 <forrestv> chuck, then it can send 'getaddr' or just wait to get 'addr' messages
1942 2011-06-04 19:13:48 <thermal> damn evil people :(
1943 2011-06-04 19:13:52 <forrestv> and it will connect to those until it has enough connections
1944 2011-06-04 19:14:11 gruez has joined
1945 2011-06-04 19:14:22 <chuck> what is enough?
1946 2011-06-04 19:14:48 <thermal> only one way to really find out...
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1949 2011-06-04 19:15:09 <thermal> but the fact that the mtgox xr is up to $17 USD is a good sign :)
1950 2011-06-04 19:15:13 <phantomcircuit> thermal, you can buy btc with paypal, only $27USD/BTC
1951 2011-06-04 19:15:28 <thermal> ah, link/site?
1952 2011-06-04 19:15:51 <phantomcircuit> bitcoinmarket.com
1953 2011-06-04 19:16:04 MartianW has left ("Bye all.")
1954 2011-06-04 19:16:34 <thermal> i'm guessing it floats at roughly $10 above the mtgox rate?
1955 2011-06-04 19:17:11 gsathya has joined
1956 2011-06-04 19:17:52 <thermal> ah cool. so it's the escrow between market deals
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1961 2011-06-04 19:22:10 <chuck> forrestv, so what does it do after it connects to a few other peers?
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1963 2011-06-04 19:23:02 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
1964 2011-06-04 19:23:03 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":17.41,"low":13,"vol":51433,"buy":17.2001,"sell":17.23,"last":17.15}}
1965 2011-06-04 19:23:15 <thermal> forrestv: the bootstrap protocol should be designed in an extensible way to allow stuff like those hardcoded values to be sent (instead of being hardcoded)
1966 2011-06-04 19:23:28 <denisx> when I start the bitcoind (commandline) for the first time, do I need to generate an adress?
1967 2011-06-04 19:24:18 RoboTeddy has left ()
1968 2011-06-04 19:24:21 amiller has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1969 2011-06-04 19:24:35 <Gekz> so what happens if you use more than 100 addresses?
1970 2011-06-04 19:24:54 <gjs278> denisx you will get one
1971 2011-06-04 19:24:58 <gjs278> by default
1972 2011-06-04 19:25:25 amiller has joined
1973 2011-06-04 19:25:40 <denisx> hmm, but when I list my transactions the address field is missing
1974 2011-06-04 19:27:13 <gjs278> on a send?
1975 2011-06-04 19:27:22 <gjs278> how could you have sent if you have not received
1976 2011-06-04 19:27:25 cdecker has left ()
1977 2011-06-04 19:30:15 <denisx> gjs278: it is from a generated block, its not a send
1978 2011-06-04 19:30:47 skeledrew1 has joined
1979 2011-06-04 19:31:31 <denisx> on my normal bitcoind listtransactions show 7 fields (account,address,category,amount,confirmations,txid and time)
1980 2011-06-04 19:31:54 <denisx> on my bitcoind where I generate blocks on the testnet it lists all fields except address
1981 2011-06-04 19:32:38 <denisx> but on bitexplorer for testnet I can see that the blocks goes to an adress
1982 2011-06-04 19:32:41 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1983 2011-06-04 19:32:49 <denisx> but its an address I can't see in my bitcoind
1984 2011-06-04 19:34:02 RAM2012 has joined
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1987 2011-06-04 19:41:49 <forrestv> thermal, why?
1988 2011-06-04 19:42:11 <forrestv> chuck, it waits for 'inv' messages signaling new blocks and downloads the new blocks
1989 2011-06-04 19:42:35 <forrestv> or it downloads old blocks using 'getblocks'
1990 2011-06-04 19:43:04 <forrestv> thermal, the entire point of the hardcoded values is to prevent someone else from fooling a client into accepting a fake blockchain
1991 2011-06-04 19:43:58 <forrestv> chuck, or, it broadcasts an 'inv' message containing a tx hash to send money
1992 2011-06-04 19:44:36 <Gekz> BOOST_FOREACH
1993 2011-06-04 19:44:36 <Gekz> how ugly.
1994 2011-06-04 19:45:51 <chuck> forrestv, and by broadcast, you mean it prepares an inv message and sends it to all nodes that it's connected to and all nodes that are connected to it?
1995 2011-06-04 19:48:46 <forrestv> chuck, yep
1996 2011-06-04 19:48:59 JRWR has joined
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1999 2011-06-04 19:52:04 <chuck> forrestv, so if I were running an online consumer bitcoin service like paypal, is there any reason I would need to maintain separate socket connections to nodes for each customer, or could I use the same socket connections for multiple customers and just keep track of bitcoin addresses?
2000 2011-06-04 19:52:37 <gruez> keep trac of address
2001 2011-06-04 19:52:57 <forrestv> chuck, in general, you don't connect to specific nodes at all
2002 2011-06-04 19:53:04 <forrestv> you just connect to some in the network
2003 2011-06-04 19:53:47 <chuck> forrestv, right, but could I just have one pool of connections to nodes and use that for all customers?
2004 2011-06-04 19:54:03 <forrestv> chuck, yes
2005 2011-06-04 19:54:58 <forrestv> chuck, why are you interfacing directly with the network, though? why doesn't the normal bitcoin work?
2006 2011-06-04 19:55:01 <forrestv> bitcoind*
2007 2011-06-04 19:55:18 Castorr has joined
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2009 2011-06-04 19:56:33 <chuck> forrestv, I'm assuming it would be better to write something custom so I could do things like keep the user's wallet in a networked database rather than a berkeley db file, etc
2010 2011-06-04 19:57:09 <sipa> implementing the complete wallet handling code is a huge effort
2011 2011-06-04 19:57:30 <forrestv> chuck, just pool all the addresses in one wallet
2012 2011-06-04 19:57:32 <forrestv> and back it up often'
2013 2011-06-04 19:57:43 <forrestv> separate individual balances out if you want
2014 2011-06-04 19:57:47 <forrestv> though bitcoind has accounts
2015 2011-06-04 19:57:51 <sipa> especially things like block reorganisations and conflicting transactions
2016 2011-06-04 19:57:58 Castor_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2017 2011-06-04 19:58:57 <chuck> i don't think a flat file database is very appropriate for a web service, and it's not even technically possible if I wanted to run it on a PaaS like heroku that doesn't even have a writeable filesystem
2018 2011-06-04 19:59:08 pfifo has left ("Leaving")
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2020 2011-06-04 19:59:28 <sipa> it's not a flat file
2021 2011-06-04 19:59:30 <forrestv> chuck, look at bitcoind's rpc interface
2022 2011-06-04 19:59:33 <forrestv> that's what you'd be accessing
2023 2011-06-04 19:59:51 <forrestv> you could load balance over multiple bitcoinds
2024 2011-06-04 19:59:56 <forrestv> on different hosts
2025 2011-06-04 20:00:16 <forrestv> either have an assigned bitcoind per user, or transfer funds between them when needed
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2030 2011-06-04 20:04:36 KuT-Sickness is now known as Sickness\
2031 2011-06-04 20:04:41 Sickness\ is now known as \Sickness\
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2037 2011-06-04 20:08:51 <cyberdo> so.. testnet gets about one block per hour now
2038 2011-06-04 20:09:37 Cusipzzz has joined
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2044 2011-06-04 20:19:20 <ZOP> uhm ... is bcm really doing that over in #bitcoin-market or has gribble gone batshit?
2045 2011-06-04 20:19:36 <phantomcircuit> ZOP, no it really is at $24
2046 2011-06-04 20:19:43 <phantomcircuit> they're the only exchange accepting paypal
2047 2011-06-04 20:19:55 <phantomcircuit> market inequalities
2048 2011-06-04 20:20:20 hereforfun has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2049 2011-06-04 20:20:28 <gjs278> [15:10] <gribble> Jun04 18:40:29 bcm 7.9000 @ 44.00 PPUSD
2050 2011-06-04 20:20:32 <gjs278> phantomcircuit
2051 2011-06-04 20:20:34 <gjs278> look at that
2052 2011-06-04 20:20:38 <gjs278> that is not an inequality
2053 2011-06-04 20:20:47 <gjs278> that is someone dumping stolen money into bitcoins
2054 2011-06-04 20:20:53 <phantomcircuit> possibly
2055 2011-06-04 20:20:59 <phantomcircuit> who runs bcm?
2056 2011-06-04 20:21:13 <gjs278> idk but their sellers are going to get fucked
2057 2011-06-04 20:21:17 <gjs278> when all of these get reversed
2058 2011-06-04 20:21:35 io_error has joined
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2060 2011-06-04 20:21:35 io_error has joined
2061 2011-06-04 20:21:37 <phantomcircuit> oh that's true
2062 2011-06-04 20:21:46 <gjs278> it's the perfect crime
2063 2011-06-04 20:21:53 <gjs278> use money that can be reversed to buy coins that cant
2064 2011-06-04 20:22:01 <gjs278> nobody can resist the potential 30 a coin
2065 2011-06-04 20:22:07 <phantomcircuit> lol
2066 2011-06-04 20:22:21 <phantomcircuit> is bcm takign on the risk or is it the seller?
2067 2011-06-04 20:22:48 <gjs278> the seller
2068 2011-06-04 20:22:57 <ZOP> phantomcircuit: ok wow.
2069 2011-06-04 20:23:25 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, oh seriously that's fucked
2070 2011-06-04 20:23:37 <ZOP> phantomcircuit: paypal.
2071 2011-06-04 20:23:41 <gjs278> bcm would have been shutdown if they were taking the risk
2072 2011-06-04 20:23:43 <ZOP> paypal == fucked
2073 2011-06-04 20:23:47 <gjs278> because paypal would see all of the money going to their account
2074 2011-06-04 20:23:54 <ZOP> basically you get accused of anything they don't like
2075 2011-06-04 20:23:56 <phantomcircuit> oh right
2076 2011-06-04 20:24:01 <ZOP> they can and will indefinitely take and freeze your account
2077 2011-06-04 20:24:35 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, lol i hadn't even thought about that
2078 2011-06-04 20:24:36 <ZOP> i've seen legitimate businesses get paypal frozen because a customer or two was caught buying porn, or selling it.
2079 2011-06-04 20:24:49 <ZOP> and so they made the business guilty by association
2080 2011-06-04 20:25:06 <ZOP> in one case it was 13k+USD,a nd they still havent' gotten it back (taking to court most recently)
2081 2011-06-04 20:25:20 <ZOP> but everyone and their brother has paypal.
2082 2011-06-04 20:25:24 <ZOP> so they get away with it.
2083 2011-06-04 20:25:41 genjix has joined
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2085 2011-06-04 20:26:02 <ZOP> i think the non-reversible transactions is what scares banks/etc the most about bitcoin heh.
2086 2011-06-04 20:26:25 <vitaminD> this is why there are escrow services
2087 2011-06-04 20:26:36 <io_error> ZOP: And delights every single one of us who's ever been screwed by PayPal or the banks.
2088 2011-06-04 20:27:22 npt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2089 2011-06-04 20:28:31 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
2090 2011-06-04 20:32:01 gwelymernan has joined
2091 2011-06-04 20:34:53 <sipa> tcatm: email to you seems to bounce
2092 2011-06-04 20:35:23 <phantomcircuit> argh where is magical tux he lost 70 of my btc
2093 2011-06-04 20:35:29 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, come back :|
2094 2011-06-04 20:35:37 has joined
2095 2011-06-04 20:35:42 <sipa> ?
2096 2011-06-04 20:36:10 <phantomcircuit> the email btc to other user
2097 2011-06-04 20:36:19 <phantomcircuit> the email bounced and neither account is funded
2098 2011-06-04 20:36:38 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2099 2011-06-04 20:36:52 <sipa> i believe it's returned to the sender if not claimed within a certain period of time (like a week)
2100 2011-06-04 20:37:12 Terrance has joined
2101 2011-06-04 20:37:24 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it's pretty lame since it doesn't even try to resend
2102 2011-06-04 20:37:33 <phantomcircuit> i can see the bounce in the mail logs but no retry
2103 2011-06-04 20:37:55 <sipa> hmmm
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2110 2011-06-04 20:44:19 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: If you think nobody cares, try missing a few payments)
2111 2011-06-04 20:44:39 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yeah it's kind of annoying
2112 2011-06-04 20:46:13 BitVector has quit (Quit: .)
2113 2011-06-04 20:46:43 * roconnor tries seeing how much of the main network chain he can verify
2114 2011-06-04 20:47:20 <sipa> roconnor: and how long it takes? :)
2115 2011-06-04 20:47:35 quellhorst has joined
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2117 2011-06-04 20:48:57 <phantomcircuit> roconnor, what language are you working in?
2118 2011-06-04 20:49:20 <diki> well no matter how much i tried, i had to split the byteswap reversing between two programs
2119 2011-06-04 20:49:35 <diki> one will calculate the sha256 sum of the share, the other will byteswap it
2120 2011-06-04 20:49:42 <diki> it was impossible to combine both
2121 2011-06-04 20:50:25 <diki> the downside to all of it, is that i've currently increased the number of programs i need to call before i can display confirmed/unconfirmed blocks
2122 2011-06-04 20:50:50 <diki> currently to 4 programs
2123 2011-06-04 20:51:19 enki has joined
2124 2011-06-04 20:51:44 <diki> I of course 100% didn't want to do this, but when there is no way, there is no way
2125 2011-06-04 20:52:22 <gjs278> buying coins is impossible in otc right now
2126 2011-06-04 20:52:24 <gjs278> I swear
2127 2011-06-04 20:52:26 <gjs278> nobody has any
2128 2011-06-04 20:52:40 <diki> lool
2129 2011-06-04 20:52:54 <enki> do what?
2130 2011-06-04 20:52:57 vorlov has joined
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2132 2011-06-04 20:53:57 <diki> it's hard to explain from the beginning
2133 2011-06-04 20:54:06 kermit has joined
2134 2011-06-04 20:55:04 <diki> i only hope that the stats page wont be slowed down by much
2135 2011-06-04 20:55:09 mmoya has joined
2136 2011-06-04 20:55:24 <diki> extreme caching will be needed there
2137 2011-06-04 20:57:36 roconnor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2138 2011-06-04 20:58:46 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, $25
2139 2011-06-04 20:58:53 <gjs278> f that
2140 2011-06-04 20:59:01 <gjs278> I saw a few sells go by at $18
2141 2011-06-04 20:59:03 <phantomcircuit> that's what i figured
2142 2011-06-04 20:59:04 <gjs278> and I skipped out
2143 2011-06-04 20:59:14 <gjs278> and now I found someone who will *only* take bitcoins
2144 2011-06-04 20:59:22 <gjs278> becuase he wants them on mtgox right away...
2145 2011-06-04 20:59:26 <gjs278> for reasons I can't understad
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2148 2011-06-04 21:00:46 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, people are being weird, there's market makers tryign to figure out how to operate
2149 2011-06-04 21:00:48 roconnor has joined
2150 2011-06-04 21:00:58 <phantomcircuit> at least one i know of it doing weird shit to figure it out
2151 2011-06-04 21:01:02 <gjs278> some guy just pm'd me $24 a coin because "bcm is that high"
2152 2011-06-04 21:01:10 <phantomcircuit> lol
2153 2011-06-04 21:01:24 <gjs278> yesterday I tried selling him coins at $12.50 and he said that was "too high"
2154 2011-06-04 21:01:37 <gjs278> and then he comes around with a $24 offer
2155 2011-06-04 21:01:48 karnac_ has joined
2156 2011-06-04 21:02:00 <roconnor> phantomcircuit: Haskell
2157 2011-06-04 21:02:27 <JFK911> do it
2158 2011-06-04 21:02:34 gruez has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2159 2011-06-04 21:02:44 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2160 2011-06-04 21:02:45 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":17.41,"low":13,"vol":48970,"buy":17.15,"sell":17.29,"last":17.29}}
2161 2011-06-04 21:03:30 <phantomcircuit> roconnor, lol wat
2162 2011-06-04 21:03:42 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, lol
2163 2011-06-04 21:03:50 <gjs278> yeah
2164 2011-06-04 21:03:51 <roconnor> phantomcircuit: it's really an exercise in learning how bitcoin works
2165 2011-06-04 21:03:51 <phantomcircuit> i will continue my lol craze
2166 2011-06-04 21:03:52 <gjs278> I know
2167 2011-06-04 21:04:17 <gjs278> the whole point of overcharging paypal is because you don't trust the people
2168 2011-06-04 21:04:23 <gjs278> I have a rating of 13 in otc
2169 2011-06-04 21:04:25 <gjs278> what's not to trust
2170 2011-06-04 21:04:31 <gjs278> I'm not going to chargeback
2171 2011-06-04 21:04:45 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2172 2011-06-04 21:04:55 <phantomcircuit> yup
2173 2011-06-04 21:05:25 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2174 2011-06-04 21:05:35 <gjs278> ugh
2175 2011-06-04 21:05:52 <gjs278> some guy is willing to sell me 2 5850's 10 coins each
2176 2011-06-04 21:06:02 <gjs278> but no way in hell I'm going $240 for that
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2202 2011-06-04 21:29:03 <luke-jr> gjs278: no?
2203 2011-06-04 21:29:06 <luke-jr> oh, each
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2207 2011-06-04 21:29:19 <bgupta> Hi I am using cpuminer with aquadcore Nehalem.. and am trying to understand which algorithm to use. there seem to be 4 choices that might make sense: 1) tcatm's 4way ss2 implemtation, sse2_64, c sha256, and cryptoapp.
2208 2011-06-04 21:30:00 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2209 2011-06-04 21:30:18 <luke-jr> bgupta: TIAS
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2211 2011-06-04 21:32:06 <omes> where can you get information about the technical stuff for bitcoin?
2212 2011-06-04 21:32:10 has joined
2213 2011-06-04 21:32:11 * lupine_85 registers domain, gets with the pushing of code
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2216 2011-06-04 21:34:29 <phantomcircuit> omes, http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
2217 2011-06-04 21:34:58 <phantomcircuit> bgupta, dont, the cost of power is higher than you'll be making
2218 2011-06-04 21:36:00 <omes> phantomcircuit: thanks
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2221 2011-06-04 21:39:13 <omes> what happens with "lost" coins?
2222 2011-06-04 21:39:21 <gjs278> they're gone
2223 2011-06-04 21:39:26 <gjs278> from circulation
2224 2011-06-04 21:40:15 <omes> and the maximum possible amount of money in circulation is fixed, right?
2225 2011-06-04 21:40:34 magnificus has joined
2226 2011-06-04 21:41:04 <gjs278> yes
2227 2011-06-04 21:41:06 <gjs278> 21 million coins
2228 2011-06-04 21:41:36 <omes> so what if at any point there is a need to expand the money pool?
2229 2011-06-04 21:42:02 <gjs278> there wont be
2230 2011-06-04 21:42:08 <omes> why not?
2231 2011-06-04 21:42:12 <gjs278> it'd be the same as if there were only 21 million gold bars in the world
2232 2011-06-04 21:42:21 <omes> exactly...
2233 2011-06-04 21:42:43 <diki> since i think that having a table(shares) rise up to infinity to billions and billions of rows
2234 2011-06-04 21:42:51 <diki> i was thinking of doing a cleanu[
2235 2011-06-04 21:42:54 <diki> *cleanup
2236 2011-06-04 21:43:04 <gjs278> if you don't keep every share you will have problems
2237 2011-06-04 21:43:09 <diki> like?
2238 2011-06-04 21:43:16 <diki> the police?
2239 2011-06-04 21:43:18 <gjs278> if your payments ever screw up and you have to figure out what happened
2240 2011-06-04 21:43:20 <bgupta> phantomcircuit: I should have just tested.. the sse2_64 is netting me about 40MH/s (Electricity is a sunk/fixed cost on these machines, and I'm just using idle CPU. If real workload came, I would kill it)
2241 2011-06-04 21:43:30 <gjs278> you can't throw away share data
2242 2011-06-04 21:43:39 <diki> define payment screwup
2243 2011-06-04 21:43:41 backwardation25 has joined
2244 2011-06-04 21:43:52 <gjs278> you underpay your members due to a glitch
2245 2011-06-04 21:43:57 <gjs278> you have to figure out how much to pay them now
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2247 2011-06-04 21:44:21 <diki> if that ever happens
2248 2011-06-04 21:44:30 <diki> block #XXX -invalid-
2249 2011-06-04 21:45:42 <diki> either way, if i underpay them, that is still good for the pool.
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2251 2011-06-04 21:46:06 <diki> the pool get's more bitcoins and i can after other stuff maybe strive for insta pay
2252 2011-06-04 21:46:52 <diki> *gets
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2256 2011-06-04 21:47:42 <mika__> hi, do you think will ever be some kind of protection on transactions? i mean, what if i pay someone and he doesn't send me anything?
2257 2011-06-04 21:48:20 <sipa> that's a feature of a payment processor, not of a currency
2258 2011-06-04 21:48:56 <sipa> it just doesn't outweigh the benefits: now your money is yours and yours alone, and no-one can do anything with your money
2259 2011-06-04 21:49:10 has joined
2260 2011-06-04 21:49:10 wood_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2261 2011-06-04 21:49:28 <sipa> if you need real-life trust before completing a monetary transaction, you need an escrow eg.
2262 2011-06-04 21:50:23 <mika__> sipa: mmm..ok... is there any escrow for bitcoin? or is it possible to create it using the api (i'm looking at them right now)
2263 2011-06-04 21:50:29 mahadri has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2264 2011-06-04 21:50:30 <sipa> www.clearcoin.com
2265 2011-06-04 21:50:31 Validus has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
2266 2011-06-04 21:51:15 _Netsniper_ has joined
2267 2011-06-04 21:51:53 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2268 2011-06-04 21:52:02 Xunie has joined
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2270 2011-06-04 21:52:24 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2271 2011-06-04 21:52:26 <mika__> sipa: cool, thanks :)
2272 2011-06-04 21:53:05 _Netsni3 has joined
2273 2011-06-04 21:53:36 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2274 2011-06-04 21:54:13 has quit (Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-251-237-220.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2275 2011-06-04 21:54:33 <mika__> i think that'll add the bitcoin support to my website :)
2276 2011-06-04 21:54:37 <mika__> i0ll*
2277 2011-06-04 21:54:44 <mika__> damn.. i'll..
2278 2011-06-04 21:55:14 <sipa> nice, what kind of site?
2279 2011-06-04 21:55:58 _Netsniper_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2280 2011-06-04 21:57:14 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2281 2011-06-04 21:59:26 dbitcoin has joined
2282 2011-06-04 22:00:09 JRWR is now known as SexyTime!~JRWR@unaffiliated/jrwr|JRWR
2283 2011-06-04 22:01:17 mmoya has joined
2284 2011-06-04 22:02:23 kik- has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2285 2011-06-04 22:04:10 has joined
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2287 2011-06-04 22:05:23 joepie93 has joined
2288 2011-06-04 22:05:52 joepie94 has joined
2289 2011-06-04 22:06:04 <lupine_85> https://github.com/lupine/btc_wire_proto is el part uno
2290 2011-06-04 22:06:28 _Netsni3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2291 2011-06-04 22:06:57 joepie93 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2292 2011-06-04 22:07:14 joepie95 has joined
2293 2011-06-04 22:08:43 joepie92 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2294 2011-06-04 22:10:13 _Netsniper_ has joined
2295 2011-06-04 22:10:24 joepie94 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2296 2011-06-04 22:12:26 <lupine_85> und deux: https://github.com/lupine/sharp-coin
2297 2011-06-04 22:12:46 Meloribius has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
2298 2011-06-04 22:12:53 has quit (Netsniper|!~se@adsl-69-208-130-35.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2299 2011-06-04 22:13:35 <sipa> what are those?
2300 2011-06-04 22:13:47 Incitatus has joined
2301 2011-06-04 22:14:19 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2302 2011-06-04 22:14:28 dc11 has joined
2303 2011-06-04 22:14:44 <BlueMatt> sipa: what are the "anoying bits" of uri?
2304 2011-06-04 22:15:44 <sipa> BlueMatt: ?
2305 2011-06-04 22:15:54 m00p has joined
2306 2011-06-04 22:16:01 <BlueMatt> oh sorry, that was gavin and jeff
2307 2011-06-04 22:16:04 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ?
2308 2011-06-04 22:16:09 joepie95 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2309 2011-06-04 22:16:31 * BlueMatt is just getting caught up on email after graduation today :)
2310 2011-06-04 22:17:23 <sipa> woohoo!
2311 2011-06-04 22:17:31 _Netsniper_ is now known as Netsniper
2312 2011-06-04 22:18:04 <sipa> BlueMatt: congratulations :)
2313 2011-06-04 22:18:17 <mika__> sipa, a small ecommerce :)
2314 2011-06-04 22:18:31 <denisx> how is it checked that the miners are not cheating the pool?
2315 2011-06-04 22:18:41 <sipa> not, they just can't
2316 2011-06-04 22:19:04 <sipa> they can't modify anything meaningful without their result becoming invalid
2317 2011-06-04 22:19:42 <denisx> I don't get it how that works
2318 2011-06-04 22:19:55 pusle has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2319 2011-06-04 22:20:04 <sipa> denisx: you get a block header, without knowing which transactions it is for
2320 2011-06-04 22:20:13 joepie95 has joined
2321 2011-06-04 22:20:16 <sipa> and you try nonces that make that block header hash to a low number
2322 2011-06-04 22:20:17 joepie95 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2323 2011-06-04 22:20:39 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2324 2011-06-04 22:20:43 <denisx> sipa: yeah, but my client could say "sorry, did not find anything" all the time at a fast rate
2325 2011-06-04 22:20:52 <sipa> denisx: it could, that'd be vandalism
2326 2011-06-04 22:21:00 <sipa> and it wouldn't benefit anyone
2327 2011-06-04 22:21:04 <sipa> but you could do that
2328 2011-06-04 22:21:27 <denisx> sipa: that sounds to me that someone will do it
2329 2011-06-04 22:21:37 <sipa> hopefully not
2330 2011-06-04 22:21:52 <denisx> sipa: what do you think how many people are stealing electricity already?
2331 2011-06-04 22:22:09 <sipa> we're not talking about theft here
2332 2011-06-04 22:22:13 joepie95 has joined
2333 2011-06-04 22:22:16 joepie95 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2334 2011-06-04 22:22:17 <sipa> theft benefits the thieve
2335 2011-06-04 22:22:25 <sipa> (thief?)
2336 2011-06-04 22:22:26 joepie95 has joined
2337 2011-06-04 22:22:45 bgupta has left ()
2338 2011-06-04 22:23:55 senderalpha__ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2339 2011-06-04 22:24:38 Titanium_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2340 2011-06-04 22:25:17 DontMindMe has joined
2341 2011-06-04 22:25:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: thanks, but its only hs...
2342 2011-06-04 22:25:28 <sipa> hs?
2343 2011-06-04 22:25:42 <sipa> ah, high school - so?
2344 2011-06-04 22:27:40 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2345 2011-06-04 22:27:42 kW_ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2346 2011-06-04 22:27:52 kW_ has joined
2347 2011-06-04 22:28:48 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
2348 2011-06-04 22:30:49 <diki> well...4 execs i am calling but at least they're fast for now
2349 2011-06-04 22:32:14 Nesetalis has quit (Quit: <+shponka> how does one scissor with four people <+shponka> hypercube tribadism)
2350 2011-06-04 22:34:18 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2351 2011-06-04 22:34:35 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 180000
2352 2011-06-04 22:34:49 <Diablo-D3> HAI GRIBBBAL
2353 2011-06-04 22:34:56 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
2354 2011-06-04 22:35:18 <Diablo-D3> wtf?
2355 2011-06-04 22:35:26 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,calc 180000
2356 2011-06-04 22:36:03 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
2357 2011-06-04 22:36:16 <Diablo-D3> fuck you bot
2358 2011-06-04 22:37:00 Nesetalis has joined
2359 2011-06-04 22:37:34 RenaKunisaki has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2360 2011-06-04 22:38:17 enki has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2361 2011-06-04 22:38:36 <BlueMatt> sipa: well I suppose now I could work at mcdonnalds instead of being homeless (I hear they require an hs diploma these days?) but, no, its great to finally be done, but by no means the end so...
2362 2011-06-04 22:38:57 Nesetalis is now known as Nes-asleep
2363 2011-06-04 22:39:27 <diki> but everything is working as plan
2364 2011-06-04 22:39:31 <diki> *planned
2365 2011-06-04 22:39:41 RenaKunisaki has joined
2366 2011-06-04 22:39:42 <diki> I can feel it, i can feel the power
2367 2011-06-04 22:39:44 <diki> it is close
2368 2011-06-04 22:41:18 <JFK911> i'll get a mcjob when they can pay my wage in bitcoins
2369 2011-06-04 22:41:22 <BlueMatt> MagicalTux: ping
2370 2011-06-04 22:41:35 <JFK911> my probation officer agrees with me
2371 2011-06-04 22:41:40 <BlueMatt> lol
2372 2011-06-04 22:41:56 <JFK911> well i tell her nobody wants to hire a sex offender
2373 2011-06-04 22:42:01 <JFK911> same thing imho
2374 2011-06-04 22:42:18 <BlueMatt> ...? I hope you were joking
2375 2011-06-04 22:42:34 <JFK911> dude what would you tell YOUR po
2376 2011-06-04 22:43:10 <JFK911> you gotta use something they cant "fix"
2377 2011-06-04 22:43:21 <BlueMatt> well I would begin by not sex offending...
2378 2011-06-04 22:43:52 <denisx> sipa: ok, I did a little more research
2379 2011-06-04 22:44:11 <denisx> the miner client needs to report the difficulty-1 hash
2380 2011-06-04 22:44:11 <JFK911> here's what happened
2381 2011-06-04 22:44:16 skeledrew has joined
2382 2011-06-04 22:44:21 <JFK911> i took ambien and sleepwalked
2383 2011-06-04 22:44:28 <JFK911> I rode the subway without pants
2384 2011-06-04 22:44:42 <JFK911> indecent exposure 18 months + probation + sex offender for life
2385 2011-06-04 22:45:05 <JFK911> my life is ruined due to drugs
2386 2011-06-04 22:45:22 <BlueMatt> if you are telling the truth, I think that is the best reason to be a sex offender ever...though seriously? Thats what they all say
2387 2011-06-04 22:45:24 RBecker has quit (Laptop!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2388 2011-06-04 22:45:31 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2389 2011-06-04 22:45:34 <BlueMatt> and yea, those can do that to you ;)
2390 2011-06-04 22:45:50 <diki> if you are a sex offender, chop of your dick, that way the charges wont apply
2391 2011-06-04 22:45:54 Kiba has joined
2392 2011-06-04 22:46:02 RBecker has joined
2393 2011-06-04 22:47:16 RAM2012 has joined
2394 2011-06-04 22:47:19 has joined
2395 2011-06-04 22:47:22 <JFK911> you want to see something funny BlueMatt
2396 2011-06-04 22:47:29 <JFK911> go to the doctor and say you have trouble sleeping
2397 2011-06-04 22:47:36 <Kiba> yo guys
2398 2011-06-04 22:47:37 wistiu has joined
2399 2011-06-04 22:47:37 <JFK911> watch waht rx s/he writes for you
2400 2011-06-04 22:48:03 <BlueMatt> well as long as Im in germany, they wont write you shit
2401 2011-06-04 22:48:13 <JFK911> oh ha
2402 2011-06-04 22:48:23 <BlueMatt> german doctors just dont prescribe shit like they do in the states
2403 2011-06-04 22:48:43 <BlueMatt> though it works...people get high/drunk on beer here, not crazy shit
2404 2011-06-04 22:48:49 <diki> german doctors like it when women have problems down there
2405 2011-06-04 22:49:24 <diki> almost every doctor in germany is a gynecologist
2406 2011-06-04 22:49:38 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2407 2011-06-04 22:49:42 <noagendamarket> lawl
2408 2011-06-04 22:49:45 <Kiba> lol
2409 2011-06-04 22:49:46 <BlueMatt> yea...diki you are stupid as fuck
2410 2011-06-04 22:49:54 <noagendamarket> has anyone seen the human centipede ?
2411 2011-06-04 22:50:00 <BlueMatt> oh god
2412 2011-06-04 22:50:11 <noagendamarket> he was german....
2413 2011-06-04 22:50:16 <diki> yup
2414 2011-06-04 22:50:17 <diki> i saw i
2415 2011-06-04 22:50:19 <diki> *it
2416 2011-06-04 22:50:23 * Kiba shawn
2417 2011-06-04 22:50:25 <Kiba> banal stuff
2418 2011-06-04 22:50:30 * noagendamarket wishes he hadnt seen it
2419 2011-06-04 22:50:45 <BlueMatt> well now I do have to say, when you get sunlight 1 day/year, it does shit to some people's heads...
2420 2011-06-04 22:51:13 RenaKunisaki has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2421 2011-06-04 22:51:14 has quit (Netsniper|!~se@adsl-69-208-139-29.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2422 2011-06-04 22:51:27 <diki> i dont like sunlight
2423 2011-06-04 22:51:31 <diki> i am a night hawk usually
2424 2011-06-04 22:51:40 <BlueMatt> then do I have a country for you...
2425 2011-06-04 22:51:56 Netsniper has joined
2426 2011-06-04 22:52:05 * Kiba holy macroni at the price for today
2427 2011-06-04 22:52:29 <diki> i just cant stand the sun
2428 2011-06-04 22:52:36 <diki> i can't see when it's daylight
2429 2011-06-04 22:52:39 <BlueMatt> some douche waited to pay me something he owed in usd till today...cheap bastard
2430 2011-06-04 22:52:42 <diki> i love it when there are clouds
2431 2011-06-04 22:52:53 * Kiba walks in the sun just so he can acquire a connection to the internet
2432 2011-06-04 22:52:55 <diki> lots and lots of clouds
2433 2011-06-04 22:53:16 <diki> Kiba: i dont worry about that. I get my stable 44 mbit connection every day
2434 2011-06-04 22:53:27 <Kiba> I have no internet because I just moved
2435 2011-06-04 22:53:29 <BlueMatt> anyway...Im off, Ive got a date with a shitton of alcohol...yay graduation :)
2436 2011-06-04 22:53:30 <diki> wondering if i should go 94
2437 2011-06-04 22:53:35 <Kiba> even guy like me still have to work
2438 2011-06-04 22:54:01 * Kiba starts work on monday 8 to 5 PM
2439 2011-06-04 22:54:16 <Kiba> thanks god it's only 8 to 5
2440 2011-06-04 22:54:24 <diki> pool operators do nothing
2441 2011-06-04 22:54:30 jav_ has joined
2442 2011-06-04 22:54:31 <diki> and still get paid
2443 2011-06-04 22:54:57 <Kiba> they get paid for running the pool server and not abusing their trust
2444 2011-06-04 22:55:53 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2445 2011-06-04 22:56:38 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2446 2011-06-04 22:57:04 <diki> well...it's very hot here
2447 2011-06-04 22:57:58 dc11 has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
2448 2011-06-04 22:58:19 ArtForz is now known as ArtForzZz
2449 2011-06-04 22:59:12 * diki is completely naked because of that
2450 2011-06-04 23:00:03 <cacheson> diki: pics or it didn't happen
2451 2011-06-04 23:00:47 quellhorst has joined
2452 2011-06-04 23:03:42 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2453 2011-06-04 23:04:13 * Kiba is tired
2454 2011-06-04 23:05:17 sethsethseth___ has joined
2455 2011-06-04 23:05:56 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2456 2011-06-04 23:07:27 F4C3 has joined
2457 2011-06-04 23:07:37 <F4C3> ErrorException [ Recoverable Error ]: Argument 1 passed to Controller_Account::_save_firewall() must be an instance of integer, integer given, called in /var/www/application/classes/controller/account.php on line 245 and defined
2458 2011-06-04 23:07:39 <F4C3> lol
2459 2011-06-04 23:07:43 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2460 2011-06-04 23:07:47 sethsethseth____ has joined
2461 2011-06-04 23:08:18 techgeek has joined
2462 2011-06-04 23:08:20 RBecker has quit (Laptop!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2463 2011-06-04 23:09:40 sethsethseth___ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2464 2011-06-04 23:10:57 Netsniper has joined
2465 2011-06-04 23:13:11 enki has joined
2466 2011-06-04 23:14:49 * diki wonders why he isn't unbanned from a channel for the two and a half years that he was/is banned
2467 2011-06-04 23:19:47 gasteve has joined
2468 2011-06-04 23:20:14 zamgo has joined
2469 2011-06-04 23:20:58 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2470 2011-06-04 23:21:42 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ping
2471 2011-06-04 23:22:30 <roconnor> sipa: ping
2472 2011-06-04 23:23:00 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, sipa, tcatm: tagging 0.3.22 release now
2473 2011-06-04 23:23:58 <sipa> roconnor: pong
2474 2011-06-04 23:24:02 mosimo has joined
2475 2011-06-04 23:24:10 <sipa> jgarzik: great
2476 2011-06-04 23:25:20 <roconnor> sipa: are none of these fancy instructions and signature types used?
2477 2011-06-04 23:25:32 <roconnor> I haven't run into any yet
2478 2011-06-04 23:26:22 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2479 2011-06-04 23:26:38 da2ce7 has quit ()
2480 2011-06-04 23:26:46 <sipa> most aren't used, yes
2481 2011-06-04 23:27:37 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2482 2011-06-04 23:28:27 mika__ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2483 2011-06-04 23:30:00 sgornick has joined
2484 2011-06-04 23:31:15 <lfm> not only are they not used, they never have been used on the production block chain
2485 2011-06-04 23:31:27 [Tycho] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2486 2011-06-04 23:31:34 <roconnor> lfm: that's what I'm seeing
2487 2011-06-04 23:31:46 <roconnor> I'm surprised
2488 2011-06-04 23:32:20 <lfm> im not sure if they have ever been used on test either
2489 2011-06-04 23:32:35 rynardt has joined
2490 2011-06-04 23:32:43 shockdiode has joined
2491 2011-06-04 23:32:51 zamgo has left ()
2492 2011-06-04 23:32:58 shockdiode has left ("Konversation terminated!")
2493 2011-06-04 23:34:44 RAM2012 has joined
2494 2011-06-04 23:34:58 adulau_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2495 2011-06-04 23:35:24 Tarlusk has joined
2496 2011-06-04 23:39:16 d1234 has joined
2497 2011-06-04 23:39:38 d1234_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2498 2011-06-04 23:40:15 ghtdak has joined
2499 2011-06-04 23:40:17 <lfm> if you're looking thru the block chain, I think the coolest block is Block #124724 2011-05-18 00:21:36
2500 2011-06-04 23:40:29 <Diablo-D3> url on blockexplorer plox
2501 2011-06-04 23:41:27 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2502 2011-06-04 23:41:28 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":18.21,"low":14.04,"vol":45349,"buy":18.2,"sell":18.21,"last":18.21}}
2503 2011-06-04 23:41:57 <lfm> is blockexplorer up?
2504 2011-06-04 23:42:28 <lfm> oh there it is just slow
2505 2011-06-04 23:43:21 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2506 2011-06-04 23:43:50 <lfm> http://blockexplorer.com/b/124724
2507 2011-06-04 23:45:40 <lfm> its kinda confused where it sez Generation: 50 + 0.00000001 total fees
2508 2011-06-04 23:47:00 MemoryException has joined
2509 2011-06-04 23:47:06 <vitaminD> wasn't someone testing a client with more trailing decimal places?
2510 2011-06-04 23:47:20 [Tycho] has joined
2511 2011-06-04 23:47:28 <lfm> vitaminD: just a patch
2512 2011-06-04 23:47:39 <vitaminD> ah
2513 2011-06-04 23:48:00 backwardation25 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2514 2011-06-04 23:48:13 adulau has joined
2515 2011-06-04 23:50:34 <denisx> ;;bc,gen 1300000
2516 2011-06-04 23:50:46 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1300000 Khps, given current difficulty of timed out , is 3.00673452718 BTC per day and 0.125280605299 BTC per hour.
2517 2011-06-04 23:52:16 <gjs278> 3 bitcoin a day
2518 2011-06-04 23:52:18 <gjs278> at $13
2519 2011-06-04 23:52:21 <gjs278> so ridiculous
2520 2011-06-04 23:52:38 <lfm> at $18/btc
2521 2011-06-04 23:53:15 <Diablo-D3> lfm: oh that
2522 2011-06-04 23:53:19 <Diablo-D3> some dickhead in here did that
2523 2011-06-04 23:53:34 <Diablo-D3> they purposely made a block that would lose 1 satoshi forever
2524 2011-06-04 23:53:56 <lfm> and mistakenly lost a satoshi plus 0.01 btc
2525 2011-06-04 23:54:18 <lfm> cuz they missed and actual fee as well
2526 2011-06-04 23:54:55 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2527 2011-06-04 23:56:33 dvide_ has joined
2528 2011-06-04 23:56:59 <roconnor> lfm: that is someone burning a fraction of a bitcoin?
2529 2011-06-04 23:57:09 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2530 2011-06-04 23:57:17 <roconnor> ah
2531 2011-06-04 23:57:19 <lfm> ya they actually burnt 0.0100000001 btc
2532 2011-06-04 23:57:38 <roconnor> why the 0.01 ?
2533 2011-06-04 23:57:43 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2534 2011-06-04 23:57:46 <lfm> they missed a real fee
2535 2011-06-04 23:57:49 <roconnor> ah
2536 2011-06-04 23:57:50 <roconnor> heh
2537 2011-06-04 23:58:11 <lfm> 0.01000001 I ment
2538 2011-06-04 23:58:15 <roconnor> this makes implementing my client a lot easier
2539 2011-06-04 23:58:26 <roconnor> I can just ignore all the fancy signature stuff for the time being
2540 2011-06-04 23:58:27 <lfm> eh? why?
2541 2011-06-04 23:58:46 <lfm> oh, ya sure, just hard code the scripts that are used
2542 2011-06-04 23:59:12 Xenland has joined