1 2011-06-07 00:00:13 <gjs278> oh
2 2011-06-07 00:00:17 <gjs278> forgot the fucking -daemon bs
3 2011-06-07 00:01:13 <BlueMatt> does someone have a bitcoin win32-based compile environment set up?
4 2011-06-07 00:01:25 <BlueMatt> (not cross compile, but actual win32)
5 2011-06-07 00:01:47 <spq> whats required?
6 2011-06-07 00:01:52 <gjs278> a lot
7 2011-06-07 00:02:12 <spq> msvc or mingw?
8 2011-06-07 00:02:17 <BlueMatt> mingw
9 2011-06-07 00:02:24 <BlueMatt> +wx2.9+boost+openssl+bdb
10 2011-06-07 00:02:25 <gjs278> BlueMatt wrote a guide on how to do it for 200 coins... or $3600
11 2011-06-07 00:02:31 <lfm> spq: stuff like wx_widgets and boost
12 2011-06-07 00:02:35 <BlueMatt> sadly I sold long before now...
13 2011-06-07 00:02:45 <BlueMatt> and I thought it was 100?
14 2011-06-07 00:02:49 <gjs278> oh
15 2011-06-07 00:02:51 <gjs278> right
16 2011-06-07 00:02:51 backwardation25 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
17 2011-06-07 00:02:53 <gjs278> only 1800
18 2011-06-07 00:02:56 <gjs278> what a cheap bastard
19 2011-06-07 00:03:02 <BlueMatt> damn, wish I had that many coins now...
20 2011-06-07 00:03:43 <spq> hm, missing wx stuff and bdb- berkley db?
21 2011-06-07 00:03:53 <BlueMatt> yea
22 2011-06-07 00:03:59 <BlueMatt> I think Ive got one that might work...
23 2011-06-07 00:04:02 <lfm> spq ya thats a start
24 2011-06-07 00:04:51 <spq> hm will setup an env. tomorrow, gn8 for now
25 2011-06-07 00:05:20 <lfm> spq well it might take you longer than 1 day
26 2011-06-07 00:06:50 <spq> we'll see ;) its not the first c++ project with some dependencies that gets born on my machine :p
27 2011-06-07 00:07:20 pogden has joined
28 2011-06-07 00:07:31 <gjs278> booting into windows wouldn't be worth the pain
29 2011-06-07 00:08:03 <lfm> gjs278: thats why it is important to encourage him who might be willing
30 2011-06-07 00:08:19 karnac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
31 2011-06-07 00:08:43 karnac has joined
32 2011-06-07 00:09:37 grbgout has quit (Quit: ... bbl)
33 2011-06-07 00:09:46 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
34 2011-06-07 00:10:32 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I'm fine with completely removing cryptopp asm
35 2011-06-07 00:11:06 theorbtwo has joined
36 2011-06-07 00:11:07 <gjs278> less code less chances of failure
37 2011-06-07 00:11:08 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it has caused minor problems for various users in the past, and CPU mining is, IMNSHO, deprecated in the official client. Only a C++ reference miner need remain.
38 2011-06-07 00:11:12 <BlueMatt> what all is left that it is used foe?
39 2011-06-07 00:11:24 <BlueMatt> r*
40 2011-06-07 00:11:36 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: which?
41 2011-06-07 00:11:56 <BlueMatt> all of cryptopp
42 2011-06-07 00:12:19 <lfm> you mean like just use sha256 from ssl?
43 2011-06-07 00:12:45 <lfm> afaik cryptopp was only ever used for mining
44 2011-06-07 00:12:46 <BlueMatt> dont know if we could, as we use the midstate stuff, is that in ossl?
45 2011-06-07 00:12:57 <fizario> you killed my horse
46 2011-06-07 00:13:04 <jgarzik> what lfm said
47 2011-06-07 00:13:12 <BlueMatt> afaict we use cryptopp for ByteReverse and midstate calc
48 2011-06-07 00:13:16 <lfm> oh ya you gotta supply the mistate to the getwork miners and stuff
49 2011-06-07 00:13:27 <jgarzik> sha256 state is sha256 state, no matter which implementation you choose
50 2011-06-07 00:13:39 <BlueMatt> but does ossl let us see sha256 state?
51 2011-06-07 00:13:48 <jgarzik> kinda sorta
52 2011-06-07 00:13:51 <lfm> jgarzik: well state is internal to some sha256
53 2011-06-07 00:14:02 bliket has joined
54 2011-06-07 00:14:14 <jgarzik> I think the question should not be asked -- because we should not rewrite reference C++ miner ;)
55 2011-06-07 00:14:35 <jgarzik> just delete the asm bits, and make sure it can still mine on testnet
56 2011-06-07 00:14:45 <lfm> it has been rewrit before
57 2011-06-07 00:14:45 <BlueMatt> fair enough
58 2011-06-07 00:14:55 <BlueMatt> ASM is disabled on osx and vc so...
59 2011-06-07 00:15:19 <BlueMatt> its not like midstate calc time can effect mining performance unless you are running a pool or smth
60 2011-06-07 00:15:27 <BlueMatt> which you shouldnt be doing on win32 anyway
61 2011-06-07 00:15:28 luke-jr has quit (otg!~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
62 2011-06-07 00:16:38 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
63 2011-06-07 00:16:38 luke-jr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
64 2011-06-07 00:16:39 <lfm> ya miners could easily generate their own midsate etc except for backward compatibility
65 2011-06-07 00:16:59 Netsniper has joined
66 2011-06-07 00:17:13 <phantomcircuit> i still dont get the midstate stuff
67 2011-06-07 00:17:19 <sipa> we can use a reference sha256 implementation
68 2011-06-07 00:17:34 <phantomcircuit> it saves what half of an sha256 round for every 2^32 block checks?
69 2011-06-07 00:17:37 <BlueMatt> ok bugs fixed, 0.3.23 should be clean of cross compile switch-caused bugs
70 2011-06-07 00:17:39 vigilyn2 has joined
71 2011-06-07 00:17:54 <mtrlt> it saves 64 rounds out of a total of 192
72 2011-06-07 00:18:01 <mtrlt> every time
73 2011-06-07 00:18:08 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: 'getwork' sends a lot of useless info. probably under the logic of "better to have and not need, than need and not have"
74 2011-06-07 00:18:13 Ramen has left ()
75 2011-06-07 00:18:16 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i agree with jgarzik whole heartedly. I say kill the builtin cpu miner.
76 2011-06-07 00:18:18 <jgarzik> satoshi had to guess what people might conceivable want
77 2011-06-07 00:18:26 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: that's not what I said
78 2011-06-07 00:18:39 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: I said: remove asm miner, keep C++ miner
79 2011-06-07 00:18:39 <lfm> phantomcircuit: no, it save a full sha256 round out of every 3 for mining
80 2011-06-07 00:18:46 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: oh
81 2011-06-07 00:18:46 <sipa> are there any miner actually using midstate?
82 2011-06-07 00:18:53 <mtrlt> sipa: umm, all of them? :P
83 2011-06-07 00:18:54 <phantomcircuit> lfm, what? no it doesn't
84 2011-06-07 00:18:56 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: i'd say remove both and supply a standalone reference c++ miner.
85 2011-06-07 00:19:05 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
86 2011-06-07 00:19:06 <jrmithdobbs> eg, take the code out of the client binary
87 2011-06-07 00:19:14 <phantomcircuit> lfm, if it did then the pools would need 1/3rd the power of all the miners they service
88 2011-06-07 00:19:17 <mtrlt> or maybe not. maybe they calculate the midstate for themselves.
89 2011-06-07 00:19:22 Carandiru has joined
90 2011-06-07 00:19:30 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: so fine, I mostly agree with what you said. ;P
91 2011-06-07 00:19:57 <sipa> the camp seems divided between 'remove it completely from the client, maybe as a separate reference miner' and 'keep the miner in the client, preferably with gpu mining support!'
92 2011-06-07 00:19:57 <lfm> phantomcircuit: no, you calc the first 1/3 once then the other 2/3 millions of times
93 2011-06-07 00:20:11 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: i thought that's what you were implying when you said keep the 'reference' c++ miner.
94 2011-06-07 00:20:19 <mtrlt> i'm in the "there's no point in having a miner in the client" camp
95 2011-06-07 00:20:24 <phantomcircuit> lfm, yes so it saves you a trivial amount of time to precalculate the midstate for getwork()
96 2011-06-07 00:20:58 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
97 2011-06-07 00:21:01 <lfm> phantomcircuit: well ya, there is no reason it needs to be in the client really, the miners should do it anyway
98 2011-06-07 00:21:33 <phantomcircuit> yeah obviously im not saying the miners should be doing the full 2 sha256 rounds
99 2011-06-07 00:21:35 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
100 2011-06-07 00:21:35 [Tycho] has joined
101 2011-06-07 00:21:42 <gjs278> the camp is retarded
102 2011-06-07 00:21:50 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
103 2011-06-07 00:21:53 bk128 has joined
104 2011-06-07 00:22:15 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, wat
105 2011-06-07 00:22:31 <gjs278> >the camp seems divided between 'remove it completely from the client, maybe as a separate reference miner' and 'keep the miner in the client, preferably with gpu mining support!'
106 2011-06-07 00:22:33 <gjs278> well
107 2011-06-07 00:22:36 <gjs278> half the camp is retarded
108 2011-06-07 00:23:05 GarrettB has joined
109 2011-06-07 00:23:05 GarrettB has quit (Changing host)
110 2011-06-07 00:23:05 GarrettB has joined
111 2011-06-07 00:23:10 <lfm> good thing its not a democracy
112 2011-06-07 00:23:22 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, well ill be removing it completely from my builds
113 2011-06-07 00:23:26 <gjs278> yes
114 2011-06-07 00:23:31 <gjs278> that is the only way
115 2011-06-07 00:23:32 <phantomcircuit> ie no more cryptopp at all
116 2011-06-07 00:23:58 <gjs278> mod your bitcoin to make your wallet.dat plaintext
117 2011-06-07 00:24:10 Xenland has joined
118 2011-06-07 00:24:29 <lfm> and in fact some miners cannot use the midstate and have to undo most of the bytesswaps
119 2011-06-07 00:24:38 <Xenland> What is undefined reference to `htole32` when running "make" for pushpool
120 2011-06-07 00:24:42 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, i have something much more baller planned
121 2011-06-07 00:24:48 <gjs278> that's fine
122 2011-06-07 00:24:54 <gjs278> make it binary
123 2011-06-07 00:25:06 <gjs278> just give me straight 0s and 1s
124 2011-06-07 00:25:08 <lfm> Xenland: that would be to little endian convert
125 2011-06-07 00:25:10 <phantomcircuit> more baller than that
126 2011-06-07 00:25:13 <phantomcircuit> fuck wallet.day
127 2011-06-07 00:25:15 <phantomcircuit> fuck wallet.dat
128 2011-06-07 00:25:28 <Xenland> im running CentOS
129 2011-06-07 00:25:46 <Xenland> msg.o: In function `cli_op_work_get':
130 2011-06-07 00:25:47 <Xenland> /root/pushpool/pushpool-0.4.1/msg.c:561: undefined reference to `htole32'
131 2011-06-07 00:25:59 mosi has quit (work!~mos@217.22.80.82|Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
132 2011-06-07 00:26:05 [Tycho] has quit (Changing host)
133 2011-06-07 00:26:05 [Tycho] has joined
134 2011-06-07 00:26:18 <phantomcircuit> Xenland, make -D_BSD_SOURCE
135 2011-06-07 00:26:21 <phantomcircuit> like a boss
136 2011-06-07 00:27:08 <Xenland> funny
137 2011-06-07 00:27:29 bitcoiner has joined
138 2011-06-07 00:28:16 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
139 2011-06-07 00:29:29 <gjs278> wallet.dat sucks
140 2011-06-07 00:29:29 <gjs278> just stack keys in plaintext and put a giant warning at the top that says #hey dipshit don't share this with anyone
141 2011-06-07 00:31:52 <MilagrosMarriner> hi
142 2011-06-07 00:32:01 <MilagrosMarriner> I downloaded the src
143 2011-06-07 00:32:05 <MilagrosMarriner> and mingw
144 2011-06-07 00:32:15 <MilagrosMarriner> what more I need to build it?
145 2011-06-07 00:32:33 <MilagrosMarriner> I typed make and it didn't work
146 2011-06-07 00:36:00 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: /msg
147 2011-06-07 00:37:34 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: wallet.dat does suck but that sucks more
148 2011-06-07 00:37:40 <gjs278> why
149 2011-06-07 00:37:43 <gjs278> you can actually read mine
150 2011-06-07 00:38:03 <jrmithdobbs> you can read wallet.dat pretty trivially as well
151 2011-06-07 00:38:10 <jrmithdobbs> man db_dump
152 2011-06-07 00:38:22 <gjs278> plaintext or nothing
153 2011-06-07 00:38:41 <jrmithdobbs> voting nothing
154 2011-06-07 00:38:46 <jrmithdobbs> we'll just all share the same keys k?
155 2011-06-07 00:38:48 <jrmithdobbs> sound good?
156 2011-06-07 00:38:50 <gjs278> an empty wallet.dat would be good
157 2011-06-07 00:39:35 agricocb has joined
158 2011-06-07 00:40:11 <gjs278> jrmithdobbs what is easier to read
159 2011-06-07 00:40:17 <gjs278> plaintext or a bdb file
160 2011-06-07 00:40:36 <gjs278> which is easier to recover when shit goes wrong
161 2011-06-07 00:40:48 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
162 2011-06-07 00:41:01 <gjs278> I'm waiting for phantomcircuit's ballerness though, i'd like to see his idea
163 2011-06-07 00:42:21 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
164 2011-06-07 00:42:30 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: actually bdb is easier to recover when shit goes wrong
165 2011-06-07 00:42:43 <jrmithdobbs> because if "shit goes wrong" with a flat file that usually means "shit got trunced"
166 2011-06-07 00:43:16 <gjs278> bdb could be just as truncated, if that is the scenario neither would win
167 2011-06-07 00:43:32 <jrmithdobbs> not my fault you framed your hypothetical poorl ;P
168 2011-06-07 00:43:36 <jrmithdobbs> s/poorl/poorly/
169 2011-06-07 00:43:45 <jrmithdobbs> yes shit goes wrong less with flat files
170 2011-06-07 00:44:44 <MilagrosMarriner> hey ppl
171 2011-06-07 00:44:57 <MilagrosMarriner> I need a custom client that encrypts my wallet
172 2011-06-07 00:45:07 <jrmithdobbs> or you could wait for .4
173 2011-06-07 00:45:07 <MilagrosMarriner> is it planned?
174 2011-06-07 00:45:10 marlowe has joined
175 2011-06-07 00:45:21 <MilagrosMarriner> is it planned for .4?
176 2011-06-07 00:45:43 <jrmithdobbs> MilagrosMarriner: i'll build it for you for 20btc in current 3.23 branch with no gaurantees of data safety if you like
177 2011-06-07 00:45:49 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
178 2011-06-07 00:45:54 backwardation25 has joined
179 2011-06-07 00:46:48 <MilagrosMarriner> jrmithdobbs i just found the thread about building the src
180 2011-06-07 00:46:59 <jrmithdobbs> MilagrosMarriner: but yes it's planned, code exists if you really want to merge it into the current master branch, it's in a pull request from BlueMatt on github
181 2011-06-07 00:47:04 <MilagrosMarriner> jrmithdobbs i'll try to do it myself
182 2011-06-07 00:47:13 <MilagrosMarriner> jrmithdobbs
183 2011-06-07 00:47:20 <MilagrosMarriner> jrmithdobbs thanks
184 2011-06-07 00:47:26 <MilagrosMarriner> jrmithdobbs i'll try
185 2011-06-07 00:49:40 <jrmithdobbs> MilagrosMarriner: should basically be: git clone <bitcoin git url>; cd bitcoin; git remote add BlueMatt <path to bluematt's git url>; git fetch BlueMatt; git merge BlueMatt/encprivkeys; then build as normal
186 2011-06-07 00:50:07 <jrmithdobbs> think it still merges cleanly so long as you're not adding other patches
187 2011-06-07 00:50:30 <MilagrosMarriner> I saved your instructions
188 2011-06-07 00:50:38 <MilagrosMarriner> for later reference
189 2011-06-07 00:50:48 Kurtov has joined
190 2011-06-07 00:50:55 <Lachesis> anyone know who made blindbitcoin.org?
191 2011-06-07 00:51:04 <jrmithdobbs> MilagrosMarriner: but i'm not sure who all has tested that code. I know it "works" in general but i would look around to see if anyone's had issues. it's a pretty big set of changes
192 2011-06-07 00:51:37 <jrmithdobbs> MilagrosMarriner: honestly might want to wait
193 2011-06-07 00:51:48 luke-jr has joined
194 2011-06-07 00:51:52 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
195 2011-06-07 00:51:53 <Lachesis> jrmithdobbs, what all does it encrypt?
196 2011-06-07 00:51:58 <Lachesis> everything, or just priv keys?
197 2011-06-07 00:52:01 luke-jr has joined
198 2011-06-07 00:52:10 <jrmithdobbs> you'd have to ask BlueMatt i've not looked at it
199 2011-06-07 00:52:17 <Lachesis> BlueMatt, ping
200 2011-06-07 00:53:09 <Lachesis> i repeat my query: anyone know if the guy who runs blindbitcoin.com is on the IRC?
201 2011-06-07 00:53:12 has joined
202 2011-06-07 00:53:21 <gjs278> if he was
203 2011-06-07 00:53:26 <gjs278> do you really think he'd be able to read what you are typing
204 2011-06-07 00:54:05 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: screen readers, i've known guys on irc who are blind
205 2011-06-07 00:54:32 pnicholson has joined
206 2011-06-07 00:55:24 <gjs278> I wonder how it handles multiple tabs
207 2011-06-07 00:55:32 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
208 2011-06-07 00:57:13 <Lachesis> gjs278, lol
209 2011-06-07 00:57:41 DukeOfURL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
210 2011-06-07 00:57:49 reeses has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
211 2011-06-07 00:58:10 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
212 2011-06-07 00:58:31 citiz3n has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
213 2011-06-07 00:58:51 DukeOfURL has joined
214 2011-06-07 00:58:53 DrewSJ has quit (Quit: Always try to be modest, and be proud about it!)
215 2011-06-07 00:59:16 MilagrosMarriner has quit (Quit: Page closed)
216 2011-06-07 01:00:48 fpgaminer has joined
217 2011-06-07 01:01:37 darkmethod has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
218 2011-06-07 01:02:00 <Xenland> anyone compile pushpool on centOS know what msg.o: In function `cli_op_work_get':
219 2011-06-07 01:02:01 <Xenland> /root/pushpool/pushpool-0.4.1/msg.c:561: undefined reference to `htole32'
220 2011-06-07 01:02:15 Kolky has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
221 2011-06-07 01:02:17 vigilyn2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
222 2011-06-07 01:02:53 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
223 2011-06-07 01:03:31 paul_nicholson has joined
224 2011-06-07 01:03:39 <gjs278> Xenland
225 2011-06-07 01:03:40 <gjs278> To get around this, open up server.c and msg.c, and paste this in below the long block of #includes
226 2011-06-07 01:03:40 Kolky has joined
227 2011-06-07 01:03:42 <gjs278> Quote from: patch for old glibc
228 2011-06-07 01:03:43 <gjs278> #include <byteswap.h>
229 2011-06-07 01:03:44 <gjs278> #define htole32(x) (bswap_32(htonl(x)))
230 2011-06-07 01:03:46 <gjs278> #define le32toh(x) (ntohl(bswap_32(x)))
231 2011-06-07 01:03:58 <gjs278> http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=8707.40 is my reference thread
232 2011-06-07 01:04:08 <Xenland> thanks man, I'll try this out :D
233 2011-06-07 01:05:14 <jrmithdobbs> also fuck openssl for basically having no man pages for any of the EC_* calls
234 2011-06-07 01:05:17 <jrmithdobbs> bitches
235 2011-06-07 01:05:58 sethsethseth____ has joined
236 2011-06-07 01:06:54 pnicholson has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
237 2011-06-07 01:06:54 paul_nicholson is now known as pnicholson
238 2011-06-07 01:07:10 <gjs278> this was my first and only attempt working with openssl from like 3 years ago http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8085/screenshotrmx.png
239 2011-06-07 01:07:21 pogden has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
240 2011-06-07 01:07:31 sethsethseth___ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
241 2011-06-07 01:07:38 pogden has joined
242 2011-06-07 01:08:58 DontMindMe has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
243 2011-06-07 01:09:32 mosimo has joined
244 2011-06-07 01:09:35 <Xenland> gjs278: server.c/msg.c is part of pushpool right?
245 2011-06-07 01:09:42 <gjs278> I believe so
246 2011-06-07 01:09:59 <Xenland> I ask stupid questions just tell me to shut up if i they get any stupider LAWL
247 2011-06-07 01:10:21 <gjs278> the thread's advice is from may so I'm assuming they havent been removed or anything drastic since then
248 2011-06-07 01:10:22 sethsethseth____ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
249 2011-06-07 01:10:24 <devrandom> ;;later tell BlueMatt did the commit for .22 change (requiring a new gitian build)?
250 2011-06-07 01:10:24 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
251 2011-06-07 01:10:26 sethsethseth____ has joined
252 2011-06-07 01:10:57 devrandom is now known as devrandom2
253 2011-06-07 01:11:57 <Xenland> when i think about it, probubly self explainatory to check inthe pushpool dir tho
254 2011-06-07 01:12:04 <feydr> jrmithdobbs: like ecdsa(3) ???
255 2011-06-07 01:12:32 skeledrew has joined
256 2011-06-07 01:12:47 devrandom2 is now known as devrandom
257 2011-06-07 01:12:51 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
258 2011-06-07 01:15:54 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
259 2011-06-07 01:18:39 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
260 2011-06-07 01:19:30 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
261 2011-06-07 01:19:56 intractable has quit (Quit: ....)
262 2011-06-07 01:21:02 skeledrew has joined
263 2011-06-07 01:21:38 feydr has quit (Quit: leaving)
264 2011-06-07 01:26:03 eoss has joined
265 2011-06-07 01:26:14 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
266 2011-06-07 01:26:27 <Xenland> gjs278: dude that worked awesomely Thanks mate :)
267 2011-06-07 01:29:46 imnottoady has joined
268 2011-06-07 01:31:08 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
269 2011-06-07 01:31:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129122 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1917 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 52 minutes, and 21 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 727127.67718157
270 2011-06-07 01:31:34 pedofly has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
271 2011-06-07 01:34:10 <jrmithdobbs> feydr: ecdsa(3) is missing all of the key gen/manip functions
272 2011-06-07 01:34:16 <jrmithdobbs> oh he's gone
273 2011-06-07 01:34:53 <jrmithdobbs> but they're covered briefly in the examples and nowhere else
274 2011-06-07 01:34:56 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
275 2011-06-07 01:35:55 WakiMiko_ has joined
276 2011-06-07 01:36:04 <Xenland> Why does pushpool say that: error while loading shared libraries: libjansson.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
277 2011-06-07 01:36:04 <Xenland> ; Even tho i compiled from source?
278 2011-06-07 01:36:06 inductor has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
279 2011-06-07 01:36:09 <Xenland> bad prefix?
280 2011-06-07 01:36:15 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
281 2011-06-07 01:36:25 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: fix your ldcache
282 2011-06-07 01:36:46 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: or add the path where you installed it to LD_LIBRARY_PATH
283 2011-06-07 01:37:30 <Xenland> i dont remember installing ldcache, could that be the problem?
284 2011-06-07 01:37:48 <jrmithdobbs> um if you don't have a linker cache you don't have an installed linux system
285 2011-06-07 01:38:05 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: where did you install libjansson to?
286 2011-06-07 01:38:21 <Xenland> well, i just hit ./configure.... no prefix
287 2011-06-07 01:38:39 vigilyn has joined
288 2011-06-07 01:38:41 <jrmithdobbs> did you actually make install?
289 2011-06-07 01:38:56 <jrmithdobbs> what broken system are you on that doesn't put /usr/local/lib in the ld cache by default?
290 2011-06-07 01:38:57 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
291 2011-06-07 01:38:58 WakiMiko_ is now known as WakiMiko
292 2011-06-07 01:39:15 <Xenland> im useing centos
293 2011-06-07 01:39:24 <Xenland> i did make, and make install with jansson yes
294 2011-06-07 01:39:34 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: does libjansson.so* exist in /usr/local/lib ?
295 2011-06-07 01:39:39 <Xenland> let me check
296 2011-06-07 01:40:19 <Xenland> yes i have 3, they look like this tho. libjansson.la* libjansson.so@ libjansson.so.4@
297 2011-06-07 01:40:54 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: run ldconfig (as root)
298 2011-06-07 01:41:02 <jrmithdobbs> then try and launch it again
299 2011-06-07 01:41:24 Sedra- has joined
300 2011-06-07 01:41:33 Sedra- has quit (Client Quit)
301 2011-06-07 01:41:37 <Xenland> still same thing... was ldconfig supposed to out put anything?
302 2011-06-07 01:41:43 Sedra- has joined
303 2011-06-07 01:41:47 <jrmithdobbs> no
304 2011-06-07 01:42:01 <Xenland> okay just making sure
305 2011-06-07 01:42:05 <jrmithdobbs> that's weird
306 2011-06-07 01:42:10 <jrmithdobbs> are you using selinux?
307 2011-06-07 01:42:22 <Xenland> im using CentOS 5.7 believe
308 2011-06-07 01:42:34 <jrmithdobbs> and are you using selinux?
309 2011-06-07 01:42:38 <Xenland> what is that?
310 2011-06-07 01:43:01 <Xenland> not that im aware of no
311 2011-06-07 01:43:04 <jrmithdobbs> run setenforce 0; and see if it starts working
312 2011-06-07 01:43:15 <jrmithdobbs> (as root)
313 2011-06-07 01:43:43 <Xenland> setenforce 0; replied with: setenforce: SELinux is disabled
314 2011-06-07 01:43:55 <Xenland> then i tryed starting pushpool and same thing
315 2011-06-07 01:43:58 <jrmithdobbs> right that command turns it off
316 2011-06-07 01:44:23 <Xenland> i wonder if the file dosen't have correct permissions
317 2011-06-07 01:44:37 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: what if you launch pushpool as: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib:/usr/lib:/lib /path/to/pushpoold
318 2011-06-07 01:45:06 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
319 2011-06-07 01:45:39 sabalabas has joined
320 2011-06-07 01:45:48 <Xenland> yeah still same thing
321 2011-06-07 01:45:59 <Xenland> this is soo wierd i never had this much trouble on ubuntu
322 2011-06-07 01:46:12 <jrmithdobbs> ya that's really weird
323 2011-06-07 01:46:14 <Xenland> unfortunatly this is for aclient so i don't have the option
324 2011-06-07 01:46:26 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: when you ldd pushpoold what's the libjansson line say?
325 2011-06-07 01:46:47 osmosis has joined
326 2011-06-07 01:46:54 <Xenland> says not found\
327 2011-06-07 01:47:05 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: um, full path
328 2011-06-07 01:47:18 <Xenland> libjansson.so.4 => not found
329 2011-06-07 01:47:31 <jrmithdobbs> oh, gotcha, wtf it shouldn't have even been able to build if it can't find it
330 2011-06-07 01:48:08 <Xenland> yeah libmemcached isn't found either and that wouldnt compile with out me installing it aswell
331 2011-06-07 01:48:17 <jrmithdobbs> something is hosed on that box
332 2011-06-07 01:48:48 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: what does file /path/to/pushpoold /path/to/libjansson.so.4; say?
333 2011-06-07 01:49:10 inductor has joined
334 2011-06-07 01:49:25 <jrmithdobbs> (or whichever of the libjansson.so* isn't the symlink)
335 2011-06-07 01:49:34 <jrmithdobbs> if you catch my meaning
336 2011-06-07 01:50:17 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-68-251-191-243.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net|Netsniper
337 2011-06-07 01:50:36 sabalabas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
338 2011-06-07 01:51:00 <Xenland> yeah i typed in what you said.... cannot open
339 2011-06-07 01:51:11 ZOP has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
340 2011-06-07 01:51:13 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: replace /path/to with the paths to the files
341 2011-06-07 01:51:13 <Xenland> do you think becuase the libjansson.so.4@ has an @ sign at the end it wont find it?
342 2011-06-07 01:51:33 <Xenland> ./pushpoold /usr/local/lib/libjansson.so.4
343 2011-06-07 01:51:35 <Xenland> i tried that
344 2011-06-07 01:51:35 <jrmithdobbs> the @ in ls output means it a symlink, it's not part of the filename
345 2011-06-07 01:52:37 <jrmithdobbs> so what'd file output?
346 2011-06-07 01:52:49 <jrmithdobbs> are they both 32bit or 64bit? is one one and the other different?
347 2011-06-07 01:53:11 <Xenland> i compiled it from source so that shouldn't matter on the 32bit and 64bit.
348 2011-06-07 01:53:14 <Xenland> right?
349 2011-06-07 01:53:27 <jrmithdobbs> if one got built as 32bit and one as 64bit yes it would still matter
350 2011-06-07 01:53:29 JRWR has joined
351 2011-06-07 01:53:29 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
352 2011-06-07 01:53:29 JRWR has joined
353 2011-06-07 01:54:07 <Xenland> no this is a fresh install on the same system
354 2011-06-07 01:54:12 <Xenland> heres my output
355 2011-06-07 01:54:12 <Xenland> root@goo [~/pushpoold/sbin]# ./pushpoold /usr/local/lib/libjansson.so.4
356 2011-06-07 01:54:12 <Xenland> ./pushpoold: error while loading shared libraries: libjansson.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
357 2011-06-07 01:54:12 <Xenland> root@goo [~/pushpoold/sbin]# ./pushpoold /usr/local/lib/libjansson.so.4@
358 2011-06-07 01:54:13 <Xenland> ./pushpoold: error while loading shared libraries: libjansson.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
359 2011-06-07 01:54:39 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: no. the file command: file ./pushpoold /usr/local/lib/libjansson.so.4
360 2011-06-07 01:54:56 <Xenland> oh kay i'll try that
361 2011-06-07 01:55:20 <Xenland> kk here it is
362 2011-06-07 01:55:21 <Xenland> file ./pushpoold /usr/local/lib/libjansson.so.4
363 2011-06-07 01:55:21 <Xenland> ./pushpoold: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, AMD x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, not stripped
364 2011-06-07 01:55:21 <Xenland> /usr/local/lib/libjansson.so.4: symbolic link to `libjansson.so.4.0.1'
365 2011-06-07 01:55:21 <Xenland> root@goo [~/pushpoold/sbin]#
366 2011-06-07 01:55:24 <jrmithdobbs> and make sure the .4 one is the one that's actually the file and not a symlink
367 2011-06-07 01:56:21 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: can the user you're running that as access /usr/local/lib/libjansson* ? check perms all the way up the tree
368 2011-06-07 01:56:31 <jrmithdobbs> something stupid is broken
369 2011-06-07 01:56:47 <jrmithdobbs> if perms look good you need to start looking at strace output to see what it's actually doing
370 2011-06-07 01:57:02 <jrmithdobbs> if that doesn't work you need to load with gdb
371 2011-06-07 01:57:07 <Xenland> jrmithdobbs: im running pushpool as root at the moment for starting/testing purposes i don't think permission should be a problem
372 2011-06-07 01:57:16 <Xenland> what is gdb?
373 2011-06-07 01:57:32 zooko has joined
374 2011-06-07 01:57:35 <jrmithdobbs> seriously? and someone is paying you to do this?
375 2011-06-07 01:57:43 <jrmithdobbs> no offense
376 2011-06-07 01:58:11 <jrmithdobbs> gdb is the gnu debugger
377 2011-06-07 01:58:43 <Xenland> yeah im thinking about telling him that it's not going to working out with CentOS at the moment scince im a ubuntu guy but i hate telling people that i can't finish the job
378 2011-06-07 01:59:52 wolfspraul has joined
379 2011-06-07 02:00:09 bernie_ has joined
380 2011-06-07 02:01:41 <gjs278> I'd take offense
381 2011-06-07 02:02:06 <Xenland> Oh im offended
382 2011-06-07 02:02:37 bernie_ has quit (Client Quit)
383 2011-06-07 02:02:39 <Xenland> And you don't like when Xen world comes and starts teleporting through mass spectrometers from another planet
384 2011-06-07 02:02:45 <gjs278> ok
385 2011-06-07 02:02:53 <gjs278> so you're getting that error that libjansson just isnt found right
386 2011-06-07 02:02:57 <gjs278> nothing weird besides that
387 2011-06-07 02:03:22 <jrmithdobbs> honestly you're at a point you need to start looking at strace and gdb output
388 2011-06-07 02:03:24 <Xenland> yeah thats the only problem... i get no errors when compiling or make or make install
389 2011-06-07 02:03:36 <gjs278> I had jansson errors before with cpuminer
390 2011-06-07 02:03:41 <gjs278> it was weird like that
391 2011-06-07 02:03:49 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: try and hit up jgarzik if you can catch him active
392 2011-06-07 02:04:15 <jrmithdobbs> Xenland: the pushpool autotools/build stuff misses a few checks and will build even though the binary wont run
393 2011-06-07 02:04:34 <jrmithdobbs> i ran into something similar, forget with what, when i built it
394 2011-06-07 02:05:05 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
395 2011-06-07 02:05:08 <Xenland> cool thanks for your time jrmithdobbs you've been helpfull
396 2011-06-07 02:06:01 <jrmithdobbs> either way, unless it's a hosed system, it's some kind of pushpool or pushpool+autools bug
397 2011-06-07 02:06:05 <jrmithdobbs> so jgarzik will want to know
398 2011-06-07 02:06:17 <jgarzik> hosed system
399 2011-06-07 02:06:30 <gjs278> lol
400 2011-06-07 02:06:42 <gjs278> jgarzik has the right attitude
401 2011-06-07 02:06:43 <jrmithdobbs> i've never tried to build it on centos
402 2011-06-07 02:07:08 sabalabas has joined
403 2011-06-07 02:12:00 bitcoiner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
404 2011-06-07 02:12:13 Sedra- has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
405 2011-06-07 02:12:21 Sedra has joined
406 2011-06-07 02:12:38 bitcoiner has joined
407 2011-06-07 02:12:40 lightcode has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
408 2011-06-07 02:15:45 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
409 2011-06-07 02:16:47 Gekz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
410 2011-06-07 02:19:57 Gekz has joined
411 2011-06-07 02:21:44 imnottoady has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
412 2011-06-07 02:22:26 imnottoady has joined
413 2011-06-07 02:22:30 sabalabas has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
414 2011-06-07 02:25:08 gwelymernan has joined
415 2011-06-07 02:27:33 Doc_M has joined
416 2011-06-07 02:27:50 devrandom1 has joined
417 2011-06-07 02:28:24 pogden has joined
418 2011-06-07 02:30:29 glassresistor has joined
419 2011-06-07 02:30:44 module000 has joined
420 2011-06-07 02:30:50 <Doc_M> Hey devs
421 2011-06-07 02:30:57 osmosis has joined
422 2011-06-07 02:31:22 module000 has left ()
423 2011-06-07 02:31:23 <Doc_M> Can I ask a few questions about planned ways to make BTC easier to use in the new clients?
424 2011-06-07 02:32:17 <gjs278> ask anything you want
425 2011-06-07 02:32:18 <denisx> I have pushpoold running on freebsd
426 2011-06-07 02:33:02 <jrmithdobbs> Doc_M: what do you mean
427 2011-06-07 02:33:31 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
428 2011-06-07 02:33:40 [7] has joined
429 2011-06-07 02:33:44 <Doc_M> like URIs and stuff
430 2011-06-07 02:34:03 <jrmithdobbs> so ask
431 2011-06-07 02:34:42 <Doc_M> Will the new clients support URI's and auto backups, and also why does it generate 100 addresses at once then use them all up, instead of refilling the address queue as it uses them?
432 2011-06-07 02:35:17 sabalabas has joined
433 2011-06-07 02:35:22 <jrmithdobbs> the first has been proposed and iplemented i don't know what the specific objections to the existing implementation are but there are forum threads to look through about it
434 2011-06-07 02:35:33 <Doc_M> thanks
435 2011-06-07 02:35:57 <jrmithdobbs> it gens 100 keys at once to prevent needing to do so at transaction time and to make backups more reliable
436 2011-06-07 02:36:22 soossii has joined
437 2011-06-07 02:36:50 <jrmithdobbs> so that older wallet backups will be (in theory, there was actually a bug with this that I think will be fixed in 3.23 per gavin's commit/pull request) valid and able to see change transactions from for txns made after the backup
438 2011-06-07 02:36:55 <jrmithdobbs> at least for a while
439 2011-06-07 02:37:27 <jrmithdobbs> make sense?
440 2011-06-07 02:37:44 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
441 2011-06-07 02:37:46 <Doc_M> the problem is still that if you are at say 1 address left and you back up
442 2011-06-07 02:37:55 <jrmithdobbs> yup
443 2011-06-07 02:37:59 <Doc_M> your backup isn't as reliable as if you had 99 addresses left in queue
444 2011-06-07 02:38:03 <jrmithdobbs> it's not perfect
445 2011-06-07 02:38:09 devrandom1 has quit (Quit: leaving)
446 2011-06-07 02:38:26 <Doc_M> thats why I suggested refilling the queue as it empties
447 2011-06-07 02:38:27 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
448 2011-06-07 02:38:35 <Doc_M> but I was curious if there was any plans for that
449 2011-06-07 02:38:40 <jrmithdobbs> ya someone's submitted a patch that does just that
450 2011-06-07 02:38:48 <Doc_M> oh got yah
451 2011-06-07 02:38:50 <jrmithdobbs> that once it gets to 25 used it refills them
452 2011-06-07 02:38:54 <Doc_M> ok, I see what you meant now
453 2011-06-07 02:38:56 <Doc_M> thanks
454 2011-06-07 02:39:05 <jrmithdobbs> (iirc haven't looked at the patch)
455 2011-06-07 02:39:26 <Doc_M> so you should still backup every 25 transactions
456 2011-06-07 02:39:40 <jrmithdobbs> imho best practice is to backup after every txn
457 2011-06-07 02:40:09 <gjs278> you should have it on a definite schedule, either every tx or just schedule it daily
458 2011-06-07 02:40:19 <jrmithdobbs> yes
459 2011-06-07 02:40:19 <Doc_M> I had an idea that would encrypt the wallet then back it up to a public SVN, is something like that a bad idea?
460 2011-06-07 02:40:21 <glassresistor> so im curious, how does pooled mining handle transaction fees?
461 2011-06-07 02:40:31 devrando1 has joined
462 2011-06-07 02:40:33 <glassresistor> Doc_M: why?
463 2011-06-07 02:40:33 <gjs278> glassresistor they keep them
464 2011-06-07 02:40:43 <glassresistor> gjs278: good to know
465 2011-06-07 02:40:45 <jrmithdobbs> Doc_M: there should be some wallet encryption builtin to wallet.dat in .4
466 2011-06-07 02:40:52 <Doc_M> makes it accessible anywhere if your computer gets destroyed
467 2011-06-07 02:40:52 <gjs278> Doc_M no point in making it public
468 2011-06-07 02:40:52 <jrmithdobbs> Doc_M: as well as some better backup methods
469 2011-06-07 02:41:07 <Doc_M> thanks jrm
470 2011-06-07 02:41:08 <jrmithdobbs> Doc_M: including a dump/importwallet rpc command that dumps and imports in json format
471 2011-06-07 02:41:17 <Doc_M> excelent
472 2011-06-07 02:41:29 JRWR has joined
473 2011-06-07 02:41:56 <jrmithdobbs> Doc_M: there's some focus on squashing stability/reliability issues that are popping up because of the exponential growth that pushes back .4 for right now
474 2011-06-07 02:42:07 <jrmithdobbs> but all that is coming ;P
475 2011-06-07 02:42:19 <Doc_M> cool
476 2011-06-07 02:42:22 devrando1 has quit (Client Quit)
477 2011-06-07 02:43:16 <jrmithdobbs> Doc_M: but even once encrypted i think backing up to a svn/git repo that lives on an encrypted disk (that way you get useful git/svn semantics for commit history instead of a new binary diff every time) would be a great practice
478 2011-06-07 02:43:32 <jrmithdobbs> Doc_M: which will be even easier with the dump/importwallet stuff sipa did
479 2011-06-07 02:44:12 devrando1 has joined
480 2011-06-07 02:44:28 <jrmithdobbs> because you wont have some of the race conditions
481 2011-06-07 02:44:46 <jrmithdobbs> currently involved with backing up wallet.dat directly with bitcoin still running
482 2011-06-07 02:45:15 <Doc_M> excelent
483 2011-06-07 02:45:24 Titeuf_87_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
484 2011-06-07 02:45:25 <jrmithdobbs> great questions though ;P
485 2011-06-07 02:45:37 <Doc_M> would you guys be up for including such a backup script with the distributions, if I write one?
486 2011-06-07 02:45:56 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
487 2011-06-07 02:45:59 <jrmithdobbs> probably not but that's not on me
488 2011-06-07 02:46:19 Carandiru has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
489 2011-06-07 02:47:53 dissipate has joined
490 2011-06-07 02:47:53 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
491 2011-06-07 02:47:53 dissipate has joined
492 2011-06-07 02:48:06 sabalabas has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
493 2011-06-07 02:53:07 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
494 2011-06-07 02:53:09 dissipate_ has joined
495 2011-06-07 02:53:10 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
496 2011-06-07 02:54:45 zooko has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
497 2011-06-07 02:55:16 brunner has joined
498 2011-06-07 02:57:24 devrando1 has quit (Quit: leaving)
499 2011-06-07 02:58:17 joepie92 has joined
500 2011-06-07 02:59:35 joepie91 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
501 2011-06-07 03:00:35 devrando1 has joined
502 2011-06-07 03:01:49 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
503 2011-06-07 03:03:12 <Lachesis> what's the biggest balance available to any btc address right now?
504 2011-06-07 03:03:35 <Lachesis> or more accurately, how the heck can i figure that out?
505 2011-06-07 03:04:46 <MasterChief> theres a top100 list somewhere
506 2011-06-07 03:05:27 matteblack has joined
507 2011-06-07 03:06:10 <matteblack> would someone like to edit the source code to betco with me to support starcraft games instead
508 2011-06-07 03:06:33 <matteblack> ill pay it btc
509 2011-06-07 03:06:38 <matteblack> in*
510 2011-06-07 03:08:00 JRWR has joined
511 2011-06-07 03:08:00 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
512 2011-06-07 03:08:00 JRWR has joined
513 2011-06-07 03:11:20 slush1 has joined
514 2011-06-07 03:11:43 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
515 2011-06-07 03:13:02 ZOP has joined
516 2011-06-07 03:13:26 Mad7Scientist is now known as AlternateNickk
517 2011-06-07 03:14:15 slush has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
518 2011-06-07 03:14:28 simkiss has quit (Quit: simkiss)
519 2011-06-07 03:14:32 AlternateNickk is now known as Alternate3
520 2011-06-07 03:15:02 Alternate3 is now known as Alternate4
521 2011-06-07 03:15:10 Alternate4 is now known as Alternate5
522 2011-06-07 03:15:30 Alternate5 is now known as Mad7Scientist
523 2011-06-07 03:16:46 soossii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
524 2011-06-07 03:16:59 soossii has joined
525 2011-06-07 03:17:12 cacheson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
526 2011-06-07 03:17:30 agricocb has joined
527 2011-06-07 03:18:06 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: you around?
528 2011-06-07 03:18:48 cacheson has joined
529 2011-06-07 03:20:13 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
530 2011-06-07 03:22:49 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
531 2011-06-07 03:23:37 Xunie has quit (Quit: Can God microwave a taco so hot that not even *HE* can eat it without burns?)
532 2011-06-07 03:23:39 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
533 2011-06-07 03:23:57 Xunie has joined
534 2011-06-07 03:27:44 backwardation25 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
535 2011-06-07 03:27:59 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
536 2011-06-07 03:31:13 Twoheaded has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
537 2011-06-07 03:32:55 imnottoady has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
538 2011-06-07 03:36:33 Twoheaded has joined
539 2011-06-07 03:37:29 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
540 2011-06-07 03:38:07 vorlov has joined
541 2011-06-07 03:38:09 matteblack has quit (Quit: Page closed)
542 2011-06-07 03:40:56 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
543 2011-06-07 03:42:42 pyros1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
544 2011-06-07 03:42:45 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
545 2011-06-07 03:43:16 [DusT] has joined
546 2011-06-07 03:43:50 <[DusT]> anyway to cancel a 0 confirmation transaction?
547 2011-06-07 03:44:03 wolfspraul has joined
548 2011-06-07 03:44:04 <midnightmagic> wait 24 hrs and hope no miners pick it up? :-)
549 2011-06-07 03:44:18 <midnightmagic> and.. hrm.. I think you also have to do some other stuff locally.
550 2011-06-07 03:44:42 <[DusT]> no big deal
551 2011-06-07 03:44:49 <[DusT]> got scammed out of .1 btc lol
552 2011-06-07 03:45:02 <[DusT]> didn't realize the guy had been copy pasting his message around
553 2011-06-07 03:45:03 <midnightmagic> Publicize it, and the address you sent it to.
554 2011-06-07 03:45:17 wolfspraul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
555 2011-06-07 03:45:19 <[DusT]> i think he just got banned from the forums/posts deleted
556 2011-06-07 03:45:36 <midnightmagic> Nothing says you can't write about it yourself. You're not banned are you? :-)
557 2011-06-07 03:45:58 wolfspraul has joined
558 2011-06-07 03:46:06 ghtdak has left ()
559 2011-06-07 03:48:44 <io_error> "I leave! I give the BTC"
560 2011-06-07 03:50:18 F4C3 has quit (Read error: No route to host)
561 2011-06-07 03:51:04 blocky has joined
562 2011-06-07 03:51:51 pyros1 has joined
563 2011-06-07 03:56:39 zooko has joined
564 2011-06-07 03:57:10 agricocb has joined
565 2011-06-07 03:57:50 fckStick has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
566 2011-06-07 04:03:31 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
567 2011-06-07 04:03:56 JRWR has joined
568 2011-06-07 04:03:56 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
569 2011-06-07 04:03:56 JRWR has joined
570 2011-06-07 04:05:43 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
571 2011-06-07 04:09:17 citiz3n has joined
572 2011-06-07 04:09:34 Strom- has joined
573 2011-06-07 04:10:59 toffoo has joined
574 2011-06-07 04:13:09 Strom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
575 2011-06-07 04:15:53 fimp has joined
576 2011-06-07 04:16:07 JonnyAzoff has left ()
577 2011-06-07 04:18:07 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik getblockbycount * r13a4ead243e5 bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Add 'getblockbycount' dumping RPC http://tinyurl.com/3voquvt
578 2011-06-07 04:18:07 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik dumpblock * r8f65ccc048fd bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Add 'getblockbycount' dumping RPC http://tinyurl.com/3shnzd8
579 2011-06-07 04:18:08 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik initblocks * r855791592a2b bitcoind-personal/src/ (init.cpp main.cpp main.h util.cpp util.h): add -initblocks=FILE, to import blocks from file in local filesystem http://tinyurl.com/3k5rvuq
580 2011-06-07 04:18:08 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik dumpblock * r72a7cf205a1e bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: s/getblockbycount/dumpblock/ http://tinyurl.com/43fe9q7
581 2011-06-07 04:18:09 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik getblockbycount * r168f5a4b30d5 bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Add getblockbyhash RPC http://tinyurl.com/3hjvsft
582 2011-06-07 04:18:09 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik keypool-resize * re784b01f9b64 bitcoind-personal/src/ (db.cpp main.h): Create -keypoolmin, and only top up keypool if size falls below that http://tinyurl.com/3cf8xnh
583 2011-06-07 04:18:09 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik initblocks * rc39c9a67df24 bitcoind-personal/src/main.h: initblocks: s/string/std::string/ http://tinyurl.com/3ltfoc6
584 2011-06-07 04:18:10 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik dumpblock * rbcac2ae6bb88 bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: add "_fulldump" http://tinyurl.com/3nk24m4
585 2011-06-07 04:18:10 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik pow-fail * rb5ce6e1bbccd bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: Print out proof-of-work and target, if proof-of-work check fails. http://tinyurl.com/3ejw92v
586 2011-06-07 04:18:36 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik scratch-card * r4bcec2..5516fc bitcoind-personal/src/ (rpc.cpp key.h bignum.h): (11 commits) http://tinyurl.com/6xhbomm
587 2011-06-07 04:18:37 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik xlisttransactions * r3b12aba3d81b bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: xlisttransactions support http://tinyurl.com/3zteprq
588 2011-06-07 04:18:37 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik xlisttransactions * rb8be7d6c49e1 bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: xlisttransactions: s/foreach/BOOST_FOREACH/ http://tinyurl.com/42r8cqv
589 2011-06-07 04:18:37 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
590 2011-06-07 04:19:02 wolfspraul has joined
591 2011-06-07 04:20:43 wolfspraul has quit (Client Quit)
592 2011-06-07 04:21:05 wolfspraul has joined
593 2011-06-07 04:22:08 wolfspraul has quit (Client Quit)
594 2011-06-07 04:22:48 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
595 2011-06-07 04:23:41 joepie93 has joined
596 2011-06-07 04:24:03 wolfspraul has joined
597 2011-06-07 04:26:16 joepie92 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
598 2011-06-07 04:28:14 dubious has joined
599 2011-06-07 04:29:06 xenland_ has joined
600 2011-06-07 04:30:15 mmoya has joined
601 2011-06-07 04:31:24 xenland_ has quit (Client Quit)
602 2011-06-07 04:33:19 vbsr has joined
603 2011-06-07 04:33:34 karnac_ has joined
604 2011-06-07 04:34:56 dingdong has joined
605 2011-06-07 04:35:12 Chopes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
606 2011-06-07 04:35:13 <dingdong> Hi is anyone else having trouble running bitcoin on win7 x64?
607 2011-06-07 04:35:37 noagendamarket has joined
608 2011-06-07 04:35:47 Chopes has joined
609 2011-06-07 04:35:55 <jgarzik> dingdong: what version? and what trouble?
610 2011-06-07 04:35:57 <dingdong> ive added the bitcoin path to MS sec essentials and turned off windows firewall but still keep getting the "unable to bind to port8333" error message
611 2011-06-07 04:36:09 <dingdong> latest bitcoin version 0.3.22
612 2011-06-07 04:37:05 <jgarzik> dingdong: you sure you don't already have something running on there?
613 2011-06-07 04:37:06 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
614 2011-06-07 04:37:13 <dingdong> yeah :(
615 2011-06-07 04:37:23 <dingdong> i checked my process list and do not see bitcoin.exe running
616 2011-06-07 04:37:23 <jgarzik> dingdong: does any windows tool exist, that shows you what program uses what port?
617 2011-06-07 04:37:42 <dingdong> hmmmmmmm i dont have any offhand, can u recommend one for me plz?
618 2011-06-07 04:37:57 <dingdong> brb gonna google it
619 2011-06-07 04:38:06 <vbsr> Hi. I'm running DiabloMiner on Mac OS 10.6.7 and java version "1.6.0_24". I see the follow error when I try running DiabloMiner-OSX.sh: [6/6/11 9:20:29 PM] ERROR: Can't connect to Bitcoin: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: PKIX path building failed: sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilderException: unable to find valid certification path to requested target
620 2011-06-07 04:38:26 <vbsr> Is this a known issue? Have others seen this error before?
621 2011-06-07 04:38:53 h00d has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
622 2011-06-07 04:39:12 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
623 2011-06-07 04:40:40 <jrmithdobbs> vbsr: are you using ssl rpc?
624 2011-06-07 04:40:43 <upb> sure netstat -ano
625 2011-06-07 04:40:47 <upb> + taskmgr :P
626 2011-06-07 04:41:01 karnac_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
627 2011-06-07 04:41:20 karnac has joined
628 2011-06-07 04:41:32 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
629 2011-06-07 04:41:33 <vbsr> jrmithdobbs: I have "rpcssl=1" in my bitconf.conf file
630 2011-06-07 04:42:11 <jrmithdobbs> vbsr: i don't know that diablominer has a way to turn off ssl path validation so unless your cert is issued by a standard/trusted by java CA it's going to fail
631 2011-06-07 04:42:25 fimp has joined
632 2011-06-07 04:42:33 <jrmithdobbs> vbsr: you'll need to add the issuing CA to the keystore (google mac osx add java CA keystore should get you there)
633 2011-06-07 04:42:44 <jrmithdobbs> vbsr: if it's self-signed .... it's just not gonna work i don't think
634 2011-06-07 04:42:57 <jrmithdobbs> vbsr: might hit up Diablo-D3 for an option to turn off validation
635 2011-06-07 04:43:01 fimp has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
636 2011-06-07 04:43:30 <Diablo-D3> I dont think I can
637 2011-06-07 04:43:49 <vbsr> jrmithdobbs: thanks for the pointers. I see what I can do with adding the CA to the keystore.
638 2011-06-07 04:44:02 <jrmithdobbs> i know you can when using the builtin ssl stuff directly but whatever lib you're using may not have an option to turn it off
639 2011-06-07 04:44:03 <vbsr> jrmithdobbs: s/I see/I'll see
640 2011-06-07 04:44:05 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
641 2011-06-07 04:44:15 <jrmithdobbs> fuck java keystore up it's stupid ass
642 2011-06-07 04:44:22 <jrmithdobbs> that shit is backwards and retarded
643 2011-06-07 04:44:27 <Diablo-D3> heh
644 2011-06-07 04:44:29 noagendamarket has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
645 2011-06-07 04:44:31 <Diablo-D3> at least it authenticates the cert
646 2011-06-07 04:44:42 dbitcoin has joined
647 2011-06-07 04:44:54 <jrmithdobbs> ya but have you ever had to import a cert into the keystore whose csr wasn't generated by said keystore?
648 2011-06-07 04:44:54 <dingdong> jgarzik: hey i ran netstat -aon in cmd and saw that vmware (was just checking it out) was listening in on 8333
649 2011-06-07 04:44:57 <jrmithdobbs> pain in the fucking ass.
650 2011-06-07 04:45:00 <dingdong> thanks for ur help!
651 2011-06-07 04:45:06 <dingdong> gonna uninstall, reboot, and try again
652 2011-06-07 04:45:07 <dingdong> thanks!!!
653 2011-06-07 04:45:28 <jrmithdobbs> and sun leaves out a bunch of very common CAs that browsers trust by default
654 2011-06-07 04:45:33 <jrmithdobbs> because they're bitches like that
655 2011-06-07 04:45:34 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
656 2011-06-07 04:45:55 <dubious> anyone know if the web client for glbse is ready yet?
657 2011-06-07 04:46:02 <jrmithdobbs> vbsr: ps, you probably don't want to be using rpcssl for mining
658 2011-06-07 04:46:21 noagendamarket has joined
659 2011-06-07 04:46:24 devrandom is now known as devrandom1
660 2011-06-07 04:47:06 devrando1 has quit (Quit: leaving)
661 2011-06-07 04:47:10 <vbsr> jrmithdobbs: Okay, any particular reason why? I'm simply using the HTTPS URL provided by the pool.
662 2011-06-07 04:47:50 <jrmithdobbs> oh if it's a pool you don't have much choice i guess
663 2011-06-07 04:48:01 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
664 2011-06-07 04:49:22 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
665 2011-06-07 04:49:28 <vbsr> I guess I can provide the user and pass as command line args instead of the token-embedded URL
666 2011-06-07 04:49:45 Gekz has joined
667 2011-06-07 04:49:45 Gekz has quit (Changing host)
668 2011-06-07 04:49:45 Gekz has joined
669 2011-06-07 04:50:14 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
670 2011-06-07 04:50:33 dingdong has quit (Quit: Page closed)
671 2011-06-07 04:50:45 Blitzboom has joined
672 2011-06-07 04:50:45 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
673 2011-06-07 04:50:45 Blitzboom has joined
674 2011-06-07 04:51:44 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
675 2011-06-07 04:51:55 johnnympereira5 has joined
676 2011-06-07 04:52:19 vikarti has joined
677 2011-06-07 04:53:38 NOTAL has joined
678 2011-06-07 04:54:00 devrandom1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
679 2011-06-07 04:54:05 koolfy has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
680 2011-06-07 04:54:50 devrandom has joined
681 2011-06-07 04:55:26 koolfy has joined
682 2011-06-07 04:55:57 devrandom1 has joined
683 2011-06-07 04:58:59 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
684 2011-06-07 05:00:01 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
685 2011-06-07 05:01:51 Niedar has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
686 2011-06-07 05:01:57 Niedar has joined
687 2011-06-07 05:02:35 <vbsr> One more newb question: If I don't use the HTTPS URL and instead specify args on the command line, I get 'ERROR: Can't connect to Bitcoin: Bitcoin returned unparsable JSON"
688 2011-06-07 05:02:38 <vbsr> Any pointers?
689 2011-06-07 05:03:06 NOTAL has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
690 2011-06-07 05:03:47 <jrmithdobbs> does the pool provide a non-https url?
691 2011-06-07 05:03:55 <jrmithdobbs> and are you sure you're using the right port?
692 2011-06-07 05:04:05 <jrmithdobbs> also, #bitcoin-mining
693 2011-06-07 05:04:06 ahbritto has joined
694 2011-06-07 05:04:17 dubious has quit (Quit: For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.)
695 2011-06-07 05:04:49 <vbsr> jrmithdobbs: Thanks, I'll head over there.
696 2011-06-07 05:04:57 <luke-jr> also #eligius
697 2011-06-07 05:04:59 <luke-jr> :p
698 2011-06-07 05:05:40 <jrmithdobbs> vbsr: those people monkey with that stuff much more than us ;P
699 2011-06-07 05:05:45 stuhood has joined
700 2011-06-07 05:06:31 <diki> is there any definite way to check if a block will become orphan?
701 2011-06-07 05:06:36 pogden has joined
702 2011-06-07 05:07:26 <vbsr> jrmithdobbs: Sure makes sense.
703 2011-06-07 05:10:29 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
704 2011-06-07 05:11:04 wolfspraul has joined
705 2011-06-07 05:11:45 dvide has joined
706 2011-06-07 05:13:38 toffoo has quit ()
707 2011-06-07 05:14:43 cosurg1 has joined
708 2011-06-07 05:14:49 <diki> no one awake?
709 2011-06-07 05:15:05 sacarlson has joined
710 2011-06-07 05:15:16 <jrmithdobbs> just you
711 2011-06-07 05:17:57 <diki> my question is, if i already have 30 confirms, how likely is it a block still becomes an orphan?
712 2011-06-07 05:18:08 <diki> when i generated before on testnet, they all became orphans
713 2011-06-07 05:18:16 <diki> well..some of them
714 2011-06-07 05:18:23 toffoo has joined
715 2011-06-07 05:18:51 <forrestv> diki, very unlikely
716 2011-06-07 05:19:57 <diki> sure?
717 2011-06-07 05:20:24 <diki> cause i generated blcok 129108..it has 32 confirms
718 2011-06-07 05:20:27 <diki> *block
719 2011-06-07 05:21:08 <forrestv> nice
720 2011-06-07 05:21:24 <diki> how much hash/s do you do?
721 2011-06-07 05:23:28 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
722 2011-06-07 05:23:32 <forrestv> 400m
723 2011-06-07 05:23:45 <diki> well, i generated my block with 290
724 2011-06-07 05:23:52 <forrestv> after how long?
725 2011-06-07 05:23:59 <diki> honestly, a few hours
726 2011-06-07 05:24:28 <diki> current diff of course
727 2011-06-07 05:24:28 <forrestv> are you trying to tease me? :p
728 2011-06-07 05:24:31 <diki> nope
729 2011-06-07 05:24:51 <diki> but like i said, i need to be sure it wont be an orphan
730 2011-06-07 05:24:57 Akiron has joined
731 2011-06-07 05:25:02 <forrestv> looks like it won't.
732 2011-06-07 05:25:03 <diki> this will fix a lot of problems for me...
733 2011-06-07 05:25:20 <Akiron> what is up with transactions that have large numbers of small coins being sent from the same address?
734 2011-06-07 05:25:43 sshc_ has joined
735 2011-06-07 05:27:01 <vegard> 117 connections now!
736 2011-06-07 05:28:21 sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
737 2011-06-07 05:29:54 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
738 2011-06-07 05:35:09 blocky has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
739 2011-06-07 05:35:27 karnac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
740 2011-06-07 05:35:53 karnac has joined
741 2011-06-07 05:38:07 <blueCmd> jgarzik: I feel like I'm nagging, but I would love to have your input on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/63 and/or http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12577.0
742 2011-06-07 05:38:24 dissipate_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
743 2011-06-07 05:41:01 Insti has joined
744 2011-06-07 05:41:35 Akiron has quit (Quit: Page closed)
745 2011-06-07 05:44:59 pnicholson has joined
746 2011-06-07 05:46:57 sacarlson has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
747 2011-06-07 05:47:57 sanity has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
748 2011-06-07 05:49:22 sanity has joined
749 2011-06-07 05:51:50 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
750 2011-06-07 05:54:17 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
751 2011-06-07 06:03:38 xenland_ has joined
752 2011-06-07 06:03:50 xenland_ has quit (Client Quit)
753 2011-06-07 06:07:50 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
754 2011-06-07 06:08:17 <gmaxwell> Is irc.lfnet.org down for other people or has my multiple-connect node simply been totally blackholed by it?
755 2011-06-07 06:08:49 <gmaxwell> damnit. I can reach it from elsewhere.
756 2011-06-07 06:09:37 <gmaxwell> wtf. is my ISP blocking it?
757 2011-06-07 06:10:39 da2ce7 has quit ()
758 2011-06-07 06:11:10 lumos has joined
759 2011-06-07 06:11:38 <io_error> gmaxwell: Maybe your ISP thinks it's a botnet
760 2011-06-07 06:11:46 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
761 2011-06-07 06:12:43 <diki> i believe the hardware comparison page should be split to stock and OCed tables
762 2011-06-07 06:12:51 <diki> so i actually know how much a 6950 outputs
763 2011-06-07 06:12:53 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: maybe someone glined you because of the multiple connects?
764 2011-06-07 06:13:20 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: so get this:
765 2011-06-07 06:13:21 <gmaxwell> $ traceroute irc.lfnet.org
766 2011-06-07 06:13:21 <gmaxwell> traceroute to irc.lfnet.org (92.243.23.21), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 * * * 2 * * *
767 2011-06-07 06:13:42 <jrmithdobbs> oh wow
768 2011-06-07 06:13:44 <jrmithdobbs> wtf
769 2011-06-07 06:13:50 <gmaxwell> .22 traceroutes fine.
770 2011-06-07 06:14:10 <gmaxwell> This strongly indicates that my ISP is responsible
771 2011-06-07 06:14:29 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: call them and bitch until you get escalated to the noc and get a ticket open
772 2011-06-07 06:14:29 has joined
773 2011-06-07 06:14:32 <jrmithdobbs> heh
774 2011-06-07 06:15:17 nefario has joined
775 2011-06-07 06:15:28 da2ce7 has joined
776 2011-06-07 06:15:37 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
777 2011-06-07 06:16:16 da2ce7 has quit (Client Quit)
778 2011-06-07 06:16:57 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
779 2011-06-07 06:17:50 da2ce7 has joined
780 2011-06-07 06:18:47 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
781 2011-06-07 06:20:51 <gmaxwell> Just to be sure I rebooted all the provider's equipment here.
782 2011-06-07 06:20:56 <gmaxwell> No dice.
783 2011-06-07 06:21:07 malfy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
784 2011-06-07 06:21:25 <gmaxwell> does that irc network have an IPs other than 92.243.23.21 ?
785 2011-06-07 06:21:46 sethsethseth____ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
786 2011-06-07 06:22:02 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: irc.lfnet.org returns a whole bunch of addresses for me
787 2011-06-07 06:22:11 zyb has joined
788 2011-06-07 06:22:18 <gmaxwell> ah yea okay.
789 2011-06-07 06:22:33 Gekz has joined
790 2011-06-07 06:22:33 Gekz has quit (Changing host)
791 2011-06-07 06:22:33 Gekz has joined
792 2011-06-07 06:23:00 vbsr has quit (Quit: vbsr)
793 2011-06-07 06:23:02 nefario has left ()
794 2011-06-07 06:23:43 <gmaxwell> 92.243.23.21, 173.246.103.92, 193.107.204.22, 193.107.204.81 are all dropped at the first hop for me, one ip higher goes through fine for each.
795 2011-06-07 06:25:03 <jrmithdobbs> crazy
796 2011-06-07 06:25:41 wolfspraul has joined
797 2011-06-07 06:25:55 <jrmithdobbs> sounds like it's time to call tbqh
798 2011-06-07 06:26:26 johnnympereira5 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
799 2011-06-07 06:27:12 intractable has joined
800 2011-06-07 06:28:02 <gmaxwell> 2am.. meh.
801 2011-06-07 06:28:07 B0g4r7 has joined
802 2011-06-07 06:28:18 <gmaxwell> I want to know if it's just me or if they're screwing bitcoin more universally first.
803 2011-06-07 06:28:31 zooko has quit (Quit: Zzz...)
804 2011-06-07 06:28:45 ouyes has joined
805 2011-06-07 06:29:00 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: just need to move on to dns seeds
806 2011-06-07 06:29:24 <Doc_M> how would that work jg?
807 2011-06-07 06:29:47 <gmaxwell> I mean, if verizon is intentionally blocking bitcoin times will not be goodâ regardless of dnsseeds.
808 2011-06-07 06:30:56 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
809 2011-06-07 06:32:01 ouyes has left ("Leaving")
810 2011-06-07 06:34:17 <jgarzik> Doc_M: see -dnsseed in the source code
811 2011-06-07 06:34:51 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
812 2011-06-07 06:35:23 danbri has joined
813 2011-06-07 06:35:52 DD- has joined
814 2011-06-07 06:37:29 <Doc_M> can't
815 2011-06-07 06:37:34 <Doc_M> bitcoin is slashdotted to heck
816 2011-06-07 06:40:21 Strom- has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
817 2011-06-07 06:42:11 stuhood has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
818 2011-06-07 06:43:37 <enki> bitcoin is slashdotted?
819 2011-06-07 06:44:28 <sturles> http://idle.slashdot.org/story/11/06/06/1410217/Bitcoin-Used-For-the-Narcotics-Trade
820 2011-06-07 06:44:46 <Doc_M> looking through the gitthub repository
821 2011-06-07 06:45:02 <Doc_M> DNS
822 2011-06-07 06:45:07 <Doc_M> mis sorry
823 2011-06-07 06:45:10 <doublec> gmaxwell: 92.243.23.21 fails to work for me too
824 2011-06-07 06:45:34 Neskia has joined
825 2011-06-07 06:45:43 <enki> sturles: yeah, but does that have an impact?
826 2011-06-07 06:45:54 <enki> is there a node-count graph somewhere?
827 2011-06-07 06:45:55 Strom has joined
828 2011-06-07 06:45:56 <jrmithdobbs> doublec: you on verizon?
829 2011-06-07 06:46:05 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
830 2011-06-07 06:46:11 <doublec> jrmithdobbs: no an NZ ISP
831 2011-06-07 06:46:18 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
832 2011-06-07 06:46:34 Nesetalis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
833 2011-06-07 06:46:36 num1-mac has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
834 2011-06-07 06:46:45 <doublec> all dropped at the first hop like gmaxwell
835 2011-06-07 06:47:01 molecular has joined
836 2011-06-07 06:47:41 <gmaxwell> doublec: 193.107.204.81 ?
837 2011-06-07 06:47:44 <jgarzik> hmmmm
838 2011-06-07 06:48:08 <gmaxwell> doublec: and does 92.243.23.20 traceroute for you?
839 2011-06-07 06:48:19 <doublec> gmaxwell: 93.107.204.81 works
840 2011-06-07 06:48:59 <gmaxwell> I can traceroute to 93.107.204.81 but it doesn't connect on 6667
841 2011-06-07 06:49:02 <doublec> gmaxwell: so does 92.243.23.20
842 2011-06-07 06:49:23 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
843 2011-06-07 06:49:35 <gmaxwell> (93.107.204.81 also doesn't connect on 6667 from a host I'm trying in oregon)
844 2011-06-07 06:49:39 <doublec> 93.107.204.81 doesn't connect on 6667 for me either
845 2011-06-07 06:50:07 <diki> i really like this meme
846 2011-06-07 06:50:07 <diki> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/then-who-was-phone
847 2011-06-07 06:50:41 <jgarzik> looks like IRC server machine is up, but ircd is down
848 2011-06-07 06:50:52 <jgarzik> maybe DDoS or other attack on ircd
849 2011-06-07 06:51:00 Kurtov has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
850 2011-06-07 06:52:09 <gmaxwell> doublec: try tracerouting to one IP higher/lower (to distinguish internet routing screwups from something weirder)
851 2011-06-07 06:53:19 <jgarzik> what matters is 92.243.23.21
852 2011-06-07 06:53:24 <doublec> gmaxwell: 92.243.23.22 works for me
853 2011-06-07 06:53:28 <jgarzik> that's what's hardcoded into multiple versions of the client
854 2011-06-07 06:53:33 <doublec> gmaxwell: (in that I can traceroute it)
855 2011-06-07 06:53:54 <gmaxwell> Connecting to a router with good visiblity of the internet 92.243.23.21 appears to have fine routing propagation.
856 2011-06-07 06:54:09 kish has joined
857 2011-06-07 06:54:24 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: 92.243.23.21 is ping-able from multiple locations
858 2011-06-07 06:54:25 <gmaxwell> I'm seeing it originated from AS 29169 and heard via 6461, and 3356
859 2011-06-07 06:54:52 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
860 2011-06-07 06:55:02 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: right but doublec and me get dropped on the first hop to it.
861 2011-06-07 06:55:46 <gmaxwell> Which suggests our providers are blackholing it.
862 2011-06-07 06:56:26 <gmaxwell> on some network that I can ping it from I still can't connect to 6667
863 2011-06-07 06:56:34 <doublec> gmaxwell: traceroute from my linode works to 92.243.23.21
864 2011-06-07 06:56:47 <gmaxwell> doublec: can you connect to port 6667?
865 2011-06-07 06:57:11 Kurtov has joined
866 2011-06-07 06:57:15 <dirtyfilthy> yeah i can't traceroute to either from home, but can from my vps
867 2011-06-07 06:57:25 <doublec> gmaxwell: I get telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
868 2011-06-07 06:58:41 <gmaxwell> Hypothesis: Someone is DDOSing the IRC networks and our ISPs are being helpful by blackholing the victim addresses.
869 2011-06-07 06:59:03 <gmaxwell> From places where ISPs are less helpful we don't get dropped at the door, but the service is still down.
870 2011-06-07 06:59:22 <gmaxwell> s/networks/network/
871 2011-06-07 06:59:30 <Doc_M> yikes
872 2011-06-07 06:59:36 <Doc_M> people dossing to slow down the network?
873 2011-06-07 06:59:50 <Doc_M> or cause a chain split or what?
874 2011-06-07 06:59:58 <jgarzik> or maybe ISPs _think_ the high traffic is a DDoS
875 2011-06-07 07:00:00 <doublec> they could be DDOSing the irc server for any reason - not related to bitcoin
876 2011-06-07 07:00:05 <jgarzik> simply because it's high traffic
877 2011-06-07 07:00:35 <jgarzik> Doc_M: you are a panicky person, aren't you? :)
878 2011-06-07 07:00:56 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: if it wasn't actually being attacked then I'd expect to be able to connect to it from places that aren't blackholing it. And I can't.
879 2011-06-07 07:01:22 Gekz has joined
880 2011-06-07 07:01:22 Gekz has quit (Changing host)
881 2011-06-07 07:01:22 Gekz has joined
882 2011-06-07 07:01:36 <Doc_M> No, but I had a convo this weekend where someone explained to me a possible exploit unvolving dossing the irc
883 2011-06-07 07:01:46 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: The explanation for that is that ircd has crashed
884 2011-06-07 07:01:52 devon_hillard has joined
885 2011-06-07 07:01:52 devon_hillard has quit (Changing host)
886 2011-06-07 07:01:52 devon_hillard has joined
887 2011-06-07 07:02:23 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: IRCD crashed at the same time multiple ISPs thought there was an attack? (well, they probably both believed some arbor system)
888 2011-06-07 07:02:56 <sipa> that's a nice advantage to dns seeding as well: seeding traffic goes to your isp's dns
889 2011-06-07 07:03:08 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: I doubt there is any real exploit from ddosing the IRC, it's only use for initial introductions. People choose their peers most via the p2p protocol.
890 2011-06-07 07:03:11 <sipa> instead of a centralized ip
891 2011-06-07 07:03:15 <jgarzik> yep
892 2011-06-07 07:03:27 <gmaxwell> yea. dnsseeding is superior, no doubtl.
893 2011-06-07 07:03:30 <gmaxwell> er doubt.
894 2011-06-07 07:03:58 <Doc_M> gmaxwell: Thats what I tried to explain to them, but they insisted it would work
895 2011-06-07 07:04:03 <gmaxwell> Do we have any contacts that can stand the IRCD back up?
896 2011-06-07 07:04:10 <Doc_M> so I was curious if they actually were trying
897 2011-06-07 07:04:15 <jgarzik> laszlo, AFAIK
898 2011-06-07 07:05:37 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: now i am
899 2011-06-07 07:05:59 <jgarzik> can people test and verify that 0.3.22 -dnsseed works as advertised? (remove addr.dat and restart -noirc -dnsseed)
900 2011-06-07 07:06:38 <sipa> jgarzik: i believe i tested that, but can't right now
901 2011-06-07 07:06:53 <jgarzik> would like to get multiple independent confirmations, before making any recommendation on the forums
902 2011-06-07 07:07:35 <sipa> sure
903 2011-06-07 07:07:48 <jgarzik> anyway, bedtime here. tell gribble, and/or I'll watch email and the forums
904 2011-06-07 07:07:52 jgarzik has quit (Quit: zonk)
905 2011-06-07 07:08:13 <Doc_M> which fork is this in?
906 2011-06-07 07:08:21 <sipa> fork?
907 2011-06-07 07:08:21 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: it's in the mainline.
908 2011-06-07 07:08:27 <gmaxwell> The option is just hidden.
909 2011-06-07 07:08:40 larsivi has joined
910 2011-06-07 07:09:03 <Doc_M> thanks
911 2011-06-07 07:09:18 <sipa> really? should make it visible then
912 2011-06-07 07:09:49 Stellar has joined
913 2011-06-07 07:09:57 <gmaxwell> It appears to work here.
914 2011-06-07 07:10:32 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
915 2011-06-07 07:10:53 <dirtyfilthy> can connect to the irc channel from my vps now
916 2011-06-07 07:10:58 <dirtyfilthy> not from home though
917 2011-06-07 07:11:23 <gmaxwell> dirtyfilthy: via 92.243.23.21 (thats the most important IP to bitcoin)
918 2011-06-07 07:12:12 <dirtyfilthy> one sec
919 2011-06-07 07:12:33 <dirtyfilthy> ah no
920 2011-06-07 07:12:40 <dirtyfilthy> it was a different ip
921 2011-06-07 07:12:53 <gmaxwell> any idea which one worked for you?
922 2011-06-07 07:13:26 <dirtyfilthy> Trying 193.107.204.22...
923 2011-06-07 07:13:27 <dirtyfilthy> Connected to irc.lfnet.org.
924 2011-06-07 07:14:03 perol has joined
925 2011-06-07 07:14:13 Gekz has joined
926 2011-06-07 07:15:25 <gmaxwell> K. Yea, that one is blackholed at the first hop for me at home. But from some other point on the internet I connect to it fine
927 2011-06-07 07:16:37 AStove has joined
928 2011-06-07 07:17:11 <jrmithdobbs> why is that ip hard coded instead of using dns anyways?!
929 2011-06-07 07:17:24 <gmaxwell> It'll use both.
930 2011-06-07 07:17:27 <gmaxwell> 23:52 < doublec> they could be DDOSing the irc server for any reason - not related to bitcoin
931 2011-06-07 07:17:30 knotwork_ is now known as knotwork
932 2011-06-07 07:17:34 <gmaxwell> ^ so there is nothing else on the irc server.
933 2011-06-07 07:17:51 <kish> compiling gitcoin requires magical skills
934 2011-06-07 07:18:01 <gmaxwell> if you do a /list there you see the bitcoin channels, namecoin, #weeds, and #lfnet and thats it.
935 2011-06-07 07:18:16 <gmaxwell> So if someone is attacking lfnetâ I think they are intentionally attacking bitcoin.
936 2011-06-07 07:18:42 <doublec> heh
937 2011-06-07 07:18:47 <doublec> I didn't realise that
938 2011-06-07 07:18:56 <doublec> I assumed it was some big irc server
939 2011-06-07 07:19:08 <enki> well, that creates incentives to fix the netcode
940 2011-06-07 07:19:32 <gmaxwell> enki: the dnsseed code seems pretty good, it just needs to be enabled by default.
941 2011-06-07 07:19:45 <gmaxwell> connect() fixes would also make the bitcoin network more robust.
942 2011-06-07 07:20:23 <gmaxwell> One risk is that whomever is attacking irc may just attack every address returned by the dnsseed.
943 2011-06-07 07:20:48 <jrmithdobbs> bleh, it's time for bed
944 2011-06-07 07:21:05 <Doc_M> Wierd, bitcoin is bigendian
945 2011-06-07 07:21:10 <Doc_M> thats strange
946 2011-06-07 07:21:15 <Doc_M> I mean small endian
947 2011-06-07 07:21:21 asherkin has quit (Quit: Bye.)
948 2011-06-07 07:21:30 <jrmithdobbs> Doc_M: it makes perfect sense actually
949 2011-06-07 07:21:33 dr_win_ has joined
950 2011-06-07 07:21:43 <jrmithdobbs> when you start digging through the code
951 2011-06-07 07:21:57 <Doc_M> can you explain why? almost all other protocols are big endian
952 2011-06-07 07:22:08 <jrmithdobbs> anyways, fuck openssl. CRYPTO_malloc is fucking corrupting my heap wtf
953 2011-06-07 07:22:13 <jrmithdobbs> i'm going to bed
954 2011-06-07 07:22:21 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
955 2011-06-07 07:22:28 d1234_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
956 2011-06-07 07:22:53 <Doc_M> goodnight dude
957 2011-06-07 07:23:01 reeses has joined
958 2011-06-07 07:23:22 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: ur heap? Encrypted! Problem?
959 2011-06-07 07:23:28 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
960 2011-06-07 07:23:30 dr_win has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
961 2011-06-07 07:24:08 lebish_zz has quit (Changing host)
962 2011-06-07 07:24:08 lebish_zz has joined
963 2011-06-07 07:24:15 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
964 2011-06-07 07:25:39 nefario has joined
965 2011-06-07 07:25:51 TheAncientGoat has joined
966 2011-06-07 07:29:16 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
967 2011-06-07 07:30:36 Blitzboom has joined
968 2011-06-07 07:30:36 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
969 2011-06-07 07:30:36 Blitzboom has joined
970 2011-06-07 07:33:09 gsathya has joined
971 2011-06-07 07:35:32 nefario has left ()
972 2011-06-07 07:35:32 pogden has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
973 2011-06-07 07:36:31 mosi has joined
974 2011-06-07 07:37:37 darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
975 2011-06-07 07:37:59 devrandom1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
976 2011-06-07 07:39:25 devrandom1 has joined
977 2011-06-07 07:40:03 <Doc_M> oh wow you could do digital rights management using bitcoin
978 2011-06-07 07:40:52 <gmaxwell> The blockchain is just a system of deeds, so sure.
979 2011-06-07 07:41:11 <gmaxwell> Though you'd want to use an alternate blockchain for that.
980 2011-06-07 07:41:42 pogden has joined
981 2011-06-07 07:42:29 TomyBoy3G has quit ()
982 2011-06-07 07:43:25 <spq> is it possible to run bitcoin instances on multiple computers with the same wallet file? (letting one instance initialize this wallet and copy it to the others) and if, whats with incoming and outgoin transactions - the incoming transactions should be visible to all instances - the outgoin only to the instance which made it? (and probably later when the client sees this transaction?)
983 2011-06-07 07:44:27 <gmaxwell> spq: they'll all see the outgoings eventually, assuming they're online.
984 2011-06-07 07:44:29 <gmaxwell> yes.
985 2011-06-07 07:44:44 slush1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
986 2011-06-07 07:44:46 <gmaxwell> Though you'll end up confusing yourself and accidently generating bogus transactions most likely.
987 2011-06-07 07:45:26 <spq> well, that means its enough to backup the wallet file one time
988 2011-06-07 07:45:50 <gmaxwell> Hm. We should have some zero knoweldge proof that allows two nodes to agree that they have the same private key(s), so that you can peer too hosts with on wallet and they'll do some locking dance to prevent idiocy.
989 2011-06-07 07:45:56 <gmaxwell> spq: No, alas, it doesn't.
990 2011-06-07 07:46:13 <gmaxwell> spq: your client constantly uses new addresses.
991 2011-06-07 07:46:17 m00p has joined
992 2011-06-07 07:46:20 <spq> hm
993 2011-06-07 07:46:28 <spq> each address is a new priv key?
994 2011-06-07 07:46:41 <gmaxwell> spq: e.g. when it gets change in a txn it sends it goes to a new address. Each new address is a new private key.
995 2011-06-07 07:46:59 <gmaxwell> spq: the client precomputes 100 addresses, so if you copy a wallet you'll have the pool of 100...
996 2011-06-07 07:47:09 <spq> ok
997 2011-06-07 07:47:12 <spq> aaaah
998 2011-06-07 07:47:17 <gmaxwell> But they'll eventually diverge.
999 2011-06-07 07:47:49 <spq> i thought "why is this create new address thingy so damn fast" -
1000 2011-06-07 07:47:58 <spq> the precompute stuff makes sense
1001 2011-06-07 07:48:06 <gmaxwell> Well ECC key generation is pretty quick regardless.
1002 2011-06-07 07:48:30 <spq> ah cool there are elipses used
1003 2011-06-07 07:48:46 <gmaxwell> Personally I don't get why it does this. I think it should just generate new keys as SHA512(bigstoredrandomblob+index), but ::shrugs:
1004 2011-06-07 07:49:01 TommyBoy3G has joined
1005 2011-06-07 07:49:38 <sipa> spq: since 0.3.21 you should be able to use wallets on differnt computers at the same time
1006 2011-06-07 07:49:42 <sipa> but it's still dangerous
1007 2011-06-07 07:50:02 <gmaxwell> sipa: you'll have lots of fun sorting out the mess when they diverge.
1008 2011-06-07 07:50:23 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1009 2011-06-07 07:50:46 <sipa> of course, assuming you copy over at least once every 100 transactions
1010 2011-06-07 07:50:50 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1011 2011-06-07 07:52:01 Gekz has joined
1012 2011-06-07 07:52:01 Gekz has quit (Changing host)
1013 2011-06-07 07:52:01 Gekz has joined
1014 2011-06-07 07:52:50 Gekz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1015 2011-06-07 07:54:56 <Doc_M> But you don't need to use a different blockchain
1016 2011-06-07 07:56:43 <diki> how much of a fee will i have to pay to transfer 50 bitcoins?
1017 2011-06-07 07:56:47 <Doc_M> using the same blockchain adds resiliance
1018 2011-06-07 07:56:50 Gekz has joined
1019 2011-06-07 07:56:52 <diki> i know for 5 it needs 0.04
1020 2011-06-07 07:56:58 <diki> i can do the math, but...
1021 2011-06-07 07:57:01 <diki> it could be different
1022 2011-06-07 07:57:02 <Doc_M> and since there is a minimum bitcoin size of 1 nanocoin
1023 2011-06-07 07:57:22 <Doc_M> you could attach coins with special scripts as deeds for DRM
1024 2011-06-07 07:58:13 <Doc_M> You can even give people rights to share material or just transfer it, but attaching it to a larger size coin than 1 nanocoin
1025 2011-06-07 08:03:38 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1026 2011-06-07 08:03:41 Phoebus has joined
1027 2011-06-07 08:04:57 wolfspraul has joined
1028 2011-06-07 08:08:41 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: you'll be spamming up the block chain and you can expect to pay big fees for that.
1029 2011-06-07 08:08:49 GarrettB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1030 2011-06-07 08:09:01 <Doc_M> yes
1031 2011-06-07 08:09:06 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: better to just use an alternate block change. Note I said alternate, not different.
1032 2011-06-07 08:09:08 <Doc_M> a transfer would take a fee, of course
1033 2011-06-07 08:09:15 <gmaxwell> You can make blockchains which are married to bitcoin.
1034 2011-06-07 08:09:25 <gmaxwell> So they share the same security but don't spam people.
1035 2011-06-07 08:09:37 <Doc_M> It wouldn't be the same security
1036 2011-06-07 08:09:42 <gmaxwell> It would be.
1037 2011-06-07 08:09:46 <Doc_M> Explain?
1038 2011-06-07 08:10:22 <Doc_M> anyway it would be a source of fee revenue for the miners
1039 2011-06-07 08:10:25 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: miners can commit to the identity of N alternative block chains by simply writting one additional hash into the bitcoin blocks they mine.
1040 2011-06-07 08:10:26 <Doc_M> in the long run
1041 2011-06-07 08:11:02 <Doc_M> Right, but then you need a whole set of miners mining for you as well
1042 2011-06-07 08:11:08 <gmaxwell> So they can get paid for doing that, and that hash will bind other chains to the bitcoin chain without requring all bitcoin nodes to get a flood of e.g. DRM data or DNS registrations or whatever.
1043 2011-06-07 08:11:17 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: you use the same miners bitcoin uses.
1044 2011-06-07 08:11:36 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: once there are more of these their mining software will just mine the other chains too (for additional income)
1045 2011-06-07 08:11:51 <gmaxwell> Since no extra computational work will be required, it'll be a no-brainer.
1046 2011-06-07 08:13:02 <Doc_M> so the nodes that want to just do bitcoin could ignore the DRM and DNS etc etc
1047 2011-06-07 08:13:36 <gmaxwell> Right.
1048 2011-06-07 08:14:09 <gmaxwell> And nodes that just want to do DRM can mostly ignore bitcoin (they'll just need the block headers, plus part of the hashtree)
1049 2011-06-07 08:14:49 <gmaxwell> (and big miners will do them all = moar money)
1050 2011-06-07 08:15:00 <Doc_M> Its not costess as you are computing an extra hash
1051 2011-06-07 08:15:29 <Doc_M> wearas if it was part of the bitcoin block chain, then it would be more costless
1052 2011-06-07 08:16:19 <gmaxwell> ...
1053 2011-06-07 08:16:35 <gmaxwell> er. you have to hash everything that goes into the bitcoin chain to begin with.
1054 2011-06-07 08:16:47 <gmaxwell> Plus you have to send that data to lots of nodes intereted in only bitcoin.
1055 2011-06-07 08:17:02 gjs278 has joined
1056 2011-06-07 08:17:18 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: computing a hash is an infinitesmal cost compared to the ECDSA signatures (much less the proof of work)
1057 2011-06-07 08:17:40 slush has joined
1058 2011-06-07 08:18:11 Rolz73 has joined
1059 2011-06-07 08:18:20 <Doc_M> oh a single hash
1060 2011-06-07 08:18:28 <Doc_M> I thought you meant a proof of work hash
1061 2011-06-07 08:19:11 <Doc_M> like a difference nonce and all that
1062 2011-06-07 08:19:26 <gmaxwell> Yea, bingo.
1063 2011-06-07 08:19:39 <gmaxwell> No additional proof of work is required. It uses the bitcoin proof of work.
1064 2011-06-07 08:19:47 Rolz73 has quit (Client Quit)
1065 2011-06-07 08:19:56 <Doc_M> ok, thats more in line with what I was thinking
1066 2011-06-07 08:19:59 <Doc_M> excelent
1067 2011-06-07 08:20:13 <gmaxwell> http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=7219.0 < this is the thread with the technical details.
1068 2011-06-07 08:20:34 mosi has quit (work!~mos@217.22.80.82|Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
1069 2011-06-07 08:20:49 <Doc_M> man satoshi's work is so genius
1070 2011-06-07 08:20:57 <Doc_M> every time I find out more, I am more amaised
1071 2011-06-07 08:21:12 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
1072 2011-06-07 08:21:37 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: yea, it's really impressive that one persons work has done so much to extend the pratical state of the art.
1073 2011-06-07 08:21:49 <Doc_M> Yep
1074 2011-06-07 08:22:05 <Doc_M> Its a good idea that he remained somewhat incogneto
1075 2011-06-07 08:22:22 mosi has joined
1076 2011-06-07 08:22:23 <Doc_M> otherwise people would have started following him like a messianic figure
1077 2011-06-07 08:22:30 <Doc_M> and the work would not have had a life of its own
1078 2011-06-07 08:23:24 Chopes has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1079 2011-06-07 08:23:41 <gmaxwell> A lot of movements have a hard time getting past their founders... even thogh satoshi's work is good, he's not a god. Having him around would be a burden eventually.
1080 2011-06-07 08:23:56 <Doc_M> agreed
1081 2011-06-07 08:24:11 <Hadaka> so, who shall order the hitman?
1082 2011-06-07 08:24:18 <doublec> satoshi was against bitcoin getting a lot of attention iirc
1083 2011-06-07 08:24:19 <Doc_M> Luckily for him, unlike christ, he doesn't need to die for it to happen
1084 2011-06-07 08:24:21 <Hadaka> the question is... will he take payment in bitcoins...
1085 2011-06-07 08:24:22 <gmaxwell> Hadaka: no need, he's already vanished.
1086 2011-06-07 08:24:38 <Doc_M> yah, if it got too much attention too quickly it would kill it
1087 2011-06-07 08:24:56 <Doc_M> because the governments would step in before it was strong enough to survive on its own
1088 2011-06-07 08:25:06 <gmaxwell> Now all we can do is watch the key used in block zero for spends indicating the second coming of satoshi. ;)
1089 2011-06-07 08:25:09 <Doc_M> the next two years will be very important ones
1090 2011-06-07 08:25:25 <Doc_M> rofl. gm
1091 2011-06-07 08:25:31 <Doc_M> +gmaxwell
1092 2011-06-07 08:25:59 <gmaxwell> if bitcoin is successfulâ I can just imagine, 200 years from now someone spends from that block. The whole world would be @#$@â½
1093 2011-06-07 08:26:02 <doublec> eg: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1735.msg26999#msg26999
1094 2011-06-07 08:26:41 <gmaxwell> w00t. 1024 connections to my node.
1095 2011-06-07 08:26:41 <Doc_M> doublec:nods
1096 2011-06-07 08:27:41 LobsterMan has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1097 2011-06-07 08:27:44 Lobster_Man has joined
1098 2011-06-07 08:28:02 <doublec> gmaxwell: how are you getting so many connections?
1099 2011-06-07 08:28:05 Lobster_Man is now known as LobsterMan
1100 2011-06-07 08:28:11 LobsterMan has quit (Changing host)
1101 2011-06-07 08:28:11 LobsterMan has joined
1102 2011-06-07 08:28:20 <Doc_M> so the question is: is the rise of the silk market now, bad for us or good for us
1103 2011-06-07 08:28:41 <Doc_M> It creates a killer app, but also exposes us to some very negative scrutiny rather early on in the beta
1104 2011-06-07 08:28:43 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
1105 2011-06-07 08:28:44 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":19.23,"low":17.51,"vol":41078,"buy":18.711,"sell":18.9,"last":18.711}}
1106 2011-06-07 08:28:57 <Doc_M> good argument gjs278
1107 2011-06-07 08:29:11 sshc has joined
1108 2011-06-07 08:29:14 <gjs278> doublec his client has the connection limit removed
1109 2011-06-07 08:29:14 <gmaxwell> Attention is good, but it's probably not the best attention.
1110 2011-06-07 08:29:29 <gmaxwell> doublec: what gjs278 said.
1111 2011-06-07 08:29:34 <doublec> ah ok
1112 2011-06-07 08:29:50 <gmaxwell> This was more important when IRC wasn't horked.
1113 2011-06-07 08:29:53 Workbench has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1114 2011-06-07 08:29:54 <Doc_M> what's the benefit of that gmax?
1115 2011-06-07 08:30:20 Workbench has joined
1116 2011-06-07 08:30:24 <gmaxwell> Nothing reallyâ it mattered when I was one of the few nodes in many of the irc channels.
1117 2011-06-07 08:30:34 <gmaxwell> but since irc is mostly busted atm...
1118 2011-06-07 08:31:02 <midnightmagic> Doc_M: it is BAD for us.
1119 2011-06-07 08:31:20 sshc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 263 seconds)
1120 2011-06-07 08:31:39 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: .22 split the IRC seeding process to multiple channels. So there was a serious risk of network partitions because each user was only in one channel.
1121 2011-06-07 08:32:14 <Doc_M> If it had happened a year from now, then it would be pretty much guaranteed good for us⦠but this early in the beta I am not sure.
1122 2011-06-07 08:32:16 <gmaxwell> So I brought up a node today to join as many channels as possible to cross pollinate them. I took off the connection limit so it wouldn't get in the way.
1123 2011-06-07 08:32:34 <midnightmagic> no, it is never good for us.
1124 2011-06-07 08:32:54 <Doc_M> illegal transactions are a killer app for BTC
1125 2011-06-07 08:33:00 <midnightmagic> no, they aren't.
1126 2011-06-07 08:33:02 <gmaxwell> It would probably be good for the people running silk road to get busted via bitcoin forensics.
1127 2011-06-07 08:33:09 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: not really. Cash is better.
1128 2011-06-07 08:33:13 <midnightmagic> yes.. that would be good for us.
1129 2011-06-07 08:33:19 <Doc_M> cash is hard because cops steal it
1130 2011-06-07 08:33:28 <iera> micropayment could be a killer app, if we get on with the software
1131 2011-06-07 08:33:31 <gmaxwell> Cops will steal bitcoin too. :)
1132 2011-06-07 08:33:31 <Doc_M> they stop cars and steal large chunks of cash
1133 2011-06-07 08:33:34 sshc has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1134 2011-06-07 08:33:42 <Doc_M> much much harder to steal btc
1135 2011-06-07 08:33:43 <iera> gmaxwell: not if they are encrypted
1136 2011-06-07 08:34:09 Eremes has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1137 2011-06-07 08:34:15 <Doc_M> because you can't steal btc in transit, just at the end points
1138 2011-06-07 08:34:34 <gmaxwell> iera: most of the cash civil forfeiture is taken in searches performed by consent! People are stupid.
1139 2011-06-07 08:34:36 <sturles> The banks almost went on strike here in .no today, but a deal was made in the last minute. I'm sorry they didn't go on strike, so we could show them that banks are not needed for normal day to day transactions.
1140 2011-06-07 08:34:45 <Doc_M> wearas cash you can steal anywhere along the line
1141 2011-06-07 08:34:51 <iera> gmaxwell: well ok, but i assume we arent so no problem :p
1142 2011-06-07 08:34:53 <gmaxwell> er cash taken in civil forfeiture.
1143 2011-06-07 08:35:13 <Doc_M> they don't always give consent
1144 2011-06-07 08:35:14 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: it's true, bitcoin transfers a bit more securely.
1145 2011-06-07 08:35:17 <Doc_M> sometimes the cops just take it
1146 2011-06-07 08:35:25 <Doc_M> then make you sue to get it back
1147 2011-06-07 08:35:33 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: not always but most of the time they consent to the search because they are morons.
1148 2011-06-07 08:35:52 <iera> you cant possibly store value safely easier than in bitcoin
1149 2011-06-07 08:36:03 Eremes has joined
1150 2011-06-07 08:36:21 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1151 2011-06-07 08:36:31 <Doc_M> there are safer ways to store value, there really aren't safer ways to transmit it
1152 2011-06-07 08:36:57 <Doc_M> although BTC <-> fiat currency is a weak point
1153 2011-06-07 08:37:48 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/key-issues/hawala/FinCEN-Hawala-rpt.pdf < there are LOTS of ways to transmit value
1154 2011-06-07 08:38:08 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: I suggest reading that, it's a facinating read about alternative value transfer systems as well as money laundering.
1155 2011-06-07 08:38:11 <Doc_M> that link is down
1156 2011-06-07 08:38:15 <gmaxwell> damnit.
1157 2011-06-07 08:38:56 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: http://www.interpol.int/Public/FinancialCrime/MoneyLaundering/hawala/default.asp < html version
1158 2011-06-07 08:38:58 <Doc_M> .gov domains do useless restructuring constantly, so its a good idea to copy .gov documents to elsewhere
1159 2011-06-07 08:39:24 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: it's also fun to read it and imagine replacing bitcoin with hawala, swapping out the stereo types
1160 2011-06-07 08:39:40 d1234 has joined
1161 2011-06-07 08:39:54 <Doc_M> bitcoin is a lot like hawala
1162 2011-06-07 08:40:08 <gmaxwell> (e.g. instead of a cab driver you have a txn between a chinese gold farmer and an investment banker named "rapeghost")
1163 2011-06-07 08:40:11 <Doc_M> as the blocks don't really exist in space, just in noospace
1164 2011-06-07 08:40:22 <Doc_M> :laughs
1165 2011-06-07 08:40:47 <iera> Doc_M: i mean not in market stability but in safety
1166 2011-06-07 08:41:14 <Doc_M> I knew what you meant iera
1167 2011-06-07 08:41:16 <iera> k
1168 2011-06-07 08:42:32 <Doc_M> Thanks GM, this article is excelent
1169 2011-06-07 08:45:09 <diki> some people are reporting that they cant mine solo with the new .22 version with poclbm
1170 2011-06-07 08:45:13 <diki> bluematt:advise
1171 2011-06-07 08:46:11 <gmaxwell> diki: more details.
1172 2011-06-07 08:47:03 Chopes has joined
1173 2011-06-07 08:48:32 brime has joined
1174 2011-06-07 08:49:09 <Xenland> diki: hows the pool going?
1175 2011-06-07 08:49:38 <diki> gmax:http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1334.msg178817#new
1176 2011-06-07 08:49:51 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
1177 2011-06-07 08:50:50 <brime> Quick question from a noob. How would i go about searching for a wallet.dat file that has had its name changed?
1178 2011-06-07 08:51:22 <brime> Is there som kind of headder i can grep for?
1179 2011-06-07 08:52:21 <gmaxwell> brime: are you writing a wallet stealing trojan?
1180 2011-06-07 08:53:13 <gmaxwell> diki: zero data there.
1181 2011-06-07 08:53:17 <brime> sorry not that smart T_T, no i jacked uo a ext3 formated drive and cant mount it.
1182 2011-06-07 08:53:30 <gmaxwell> oy!
1183 2011-06-07 08:53:43 <gmaxwell> It's a BDB file.. which you probably have many of.
1184 2011-06-07 08:53:45 <brime> so i used photorec ro recover the files and there all named weard
1185 2011-06-07 08:54:41 <brime> BDB? ok i'll look into it.
1186 2011-06-07 08:54:44 <brime> thanks
1187 2011-06-07 08:54:48 <gmaxwell> $ file ~/.bitcoin/wallet.dat
1188 2011-06-07 08:54:49 <gmaxwell> /home/gmaxwell/.bitcoin/wallet.dat: Berkeley DB (Btree, version 9, native byte-order)
1189 2011-06-07 08:54:50 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1190 2011-06-07 08:55:40 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1191 2011-06-07 08:56:56 <brime> ok, is there a better tool to yse then grep? theres about 120000 files to check
1192 2011-06-07 08:58:08 <gmaxwell> brime: 'file'
1193 2011-06-07 08:58:14 Phoebus has joined
1194 2011-06-07 08:59:22 <Hadaka> grep for 'fGenerateBitcoins' - either you get bitcoin binaries, sourcecode or your wallet
1195 2011-06-07 08:59:51 <gmaxwell> brime: find ~/.bitcoin/ -type f -exec file {} + | grep Berkeley finds my wallet as well as a couple other bitcoin data files.
1196 2011-06-07 09:00:01 <gmaxwell> ah, and intersect that result with Hadaka.
1197 2011-06-07 09:00:24 <Hadaka> I have quite a few different berkeley databases, bitcoin sure isn't the only user
1198 2011-06-07 09:00:52 <gmaxwell> Hadaka: sure, fewer files to grep.
1199 2011-06-07 09:01:04 <gmaxwell> Hm, empty wallet here doesn't hit on fGenerateBitcoins
1200 2011-06-07 09:01:09 <gmaxwell> but a real inuse one does.
1201 2011-06-07 09:01:15 <brime> OH sorry, I get it now.
1202 2011-06-07 09:02:55 sipa has left ()
1203 2011-06-07 09:05:10 brunner has joined
1204 2011-06-07 09:05:21 brunner has quit (Client Quit)
1205 2011-06-07 09:06:46 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1206 2011-06-07 09:07:33 XX01XX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1207 2011-06-07 09:07:47 <diki> xen:the pool went great
1208 2011-06-07 09:07:51 <diki> i found a block on it lol
1209 2011-06-07 09:07:52 XX01XX has joined
1210 2011-06-07 09:08:07 <diki> all by myself :D
1211 2011-06-07 09:13:35 d1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1212 2011-06-07 09:16:45 <CIA-92> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r27b7177 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java :
1213 2011-06-07 09:16:45 <CIA-92> DiabloMiner: Change how CL_INVALID_KERNEL_ARGS is ignored, fix -l/-u conflict error
1214 2011-06-07 09:16:45 <CIA-92> DiabloMiner: message - http://bit.ly/mJaC2I
1215 2011-06-07 09:18:28 d1234 has joined
1216 2011-06-07 09:18:45 lumos has left ("Leaving")
1217 2011-06-07 09:18:57 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1218 2011-06-07 09:19:07 fiverawr has quit (Quit: leaving)
1219 2011-06-07 09:21:02 CyPh312 has joined
1220 2011-06-07 09:23:02 Xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1221 2011-06-07 09:23:11 devon_hillard has joined
1222 2011-06-07 09:25:16 Lobster_Man has joined
1223 2011-06-07 09:25:22 B0g4r7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1224 2011-06-07 09:25:43 LobsterMan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1225 2011-06-07 09:27:09 Lobster_Man is now known as LobsterMan
1226 2011-06-07 09:27:09 LobsterMan has quit (Changing host)
1227 2011-06-07 09:27:09 LobsterMan has joined
1228 2011-06-07 09:28:37 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1229 2011-06-07 09:36:13 zyb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1230 2011-06-07 09:39:01 d1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1231 2011-06-07 09:41:05 jivvz has joined
1232 2011-06-07 09:42:20 zyb has joined
1233 2011-06-07 09:43:57 dstien has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1234 2011-06-07 09:44:31 dstien has joined
1235 2011-06-07 09:46:24 d1234 has joined
1236 2011-06-07 09:46:57 legion050 has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
1237 2011-06-07 09:47:26 Tritonio has joined
1238 2011-06-07 09:50:32 davex__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1239 2011-06-07 09:50:45 CyPh312 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1240 2011-06-07 09:50:51 necrodearia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1241 2011-06-07 09:53:01 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Florian Schmaus * r2a299e59391b gentoo/net-p2p/ (4 files in 2 dirs): removed unused init/conf files from wxbitcoin http://tinyurl.com/3nqpf2g
1242 2011-06-07 09:53:40 <CIA-92> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r7b2df57 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Fix mixed -u/-p/-o/-r/-l handling for good - http://bit.ly/k7HRog
1243 2011-06-07 09:54:42 fckStick has joined
1244 2011-06-07 09:54:49 Xyz has quit ()
1245 2011-06-07 09:56:28 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell devrandom yes, commit did change, Ill go change the commit in the repo and ul my sigs
1246 2011-06-07 09:56:28 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1247 2011-06-07 09:57:13 davex__ has joined
1248 2011-06-07 09:57:24 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1249 2011-06-07 09:58:57 fckStick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1250 2011-06-07 10:00:32 gsathya has joined
1251 2011-06-07 10:03:22 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1252 2011-06-07 10:05:14 <eps1> ;;bc,stats
1253 2011-06-07 10:05:16 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129173 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1866 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 5 hours, 32 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 659496.55528250
1254 2011-06-07 10:05:53 wolfspraul has joined
1255 2011-06-07 10:06:28 [DusT] has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1256 2011-06-07 10:06:43 [DusT] has joined
1257 2011-06-07 10:06:45 nefario has joined
1258 2011-06-07 10:07:47 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1259 2011-06-07 10:09:47 MasterChief has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1260 2011-06-07 10:10:20 metonymous has joined
1261 2011-06-07 10:11:23 Cablesaurus has joined
1262 2011-06-07 10:11:23 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
1263 2011-06-07 10:11:23 Cablesaurus has joined
1264 2011-06-07 10:12:10 marcin__ has joined
1265 2011-06-07 10:13:28 [DusT] has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1266 2011-06-07 10:13:39 noagendamarket has joined
1267 2011-06-07 10:13:43 [DusT] has joined
1268 2011-06-07 10:14:02 cosurgi has quit (Quit: leaving)
1269 2011-06-07 10:17:09 cosurg1 is now known as cosurgi
1270 2011-06-07 10:17:51 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
1271 2011-06-07 10:20:29 necrodearia has joined
1272 2011-06-07 10:21:36 [DusT] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1273 2011-06-07 10:21:50 [DusT] has joined
1274 2011-06-07 10:22:34 metonymous_ has joined
1275 2011-06-07 10:23:09 Count_Niedar has joined
1276 2011-06-07 10:24:38 metonymous has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1277 2011-06-07 10:24:38 metonymous_ is now known as metonymous
1278 2011-06-07 10:25:08 d1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1279 2011-06-07 10:26:15 Niedar has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1280 2011-06-07 10:29:55 nefario has left ()
1281 2011-06-07 10:30:10 zyb has joined
1282 2011-06-07 10:30:18 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1283 2011-06-07 10:30:38 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1284 2011-06-07 10:38:52 gsathya has joined
1285 2011-06-07 10:43:54 TommyBoy3G has quit ()
1286 2011-06-07 10:44:22 RazielZ has joined
1287 2011-06-07 10:48:14 manveru has left ("WeeChat 0.3.5")
1288 2011-06-07 10:48:27 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1289 2011-06-07 10:49:54 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1290 2011-06-07 10:52:05 Xenland has joined
1291 2011-06-07 10:52:11 <Xenland> whats up chat
1292 2011-06-07 10:52:17 <Doc_M> sup Xen
1293 2011-06-07 10:52:33 <Xenland> How do you calculate Mhash/s with just shares data?
1294 2011-06-07 10:52:44 <Xenland> I keep getting wierd answers
1295 2011-06-07 10:52:49 <Xenland> results*
1296 2011-06-07 10:53:01 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Mizery De Aria * r23f61d2430c0 gentoo/net-p2p/namecoin/ (23 files in 2 dirs): added namecoin ebuild http://tinyurl.com/3kvj6yu
1297 2011-06-07 10:53:02 <CIA-92> bitcoin: root * r022054825299 gentoo/net-p2p/namecoin/ (Manifest files/namecoin-9999-Makefile.patch makefile.gentoo): namecoin http://tinyurl.com/3bye8zn
1298 2011-06-07 10:53:04 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Florian Schmaus * r382e3f3ed2ba gentoo/net-p2p/namecoin/ (23 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:bitcoin-gentoo/bitcoin-gentoo http://tinyurl.com/3g2lovd
1299 2011-06-07 10:53:36 <Doc_M> unless you are really fast, it will vary a lot, xen
1300 2011-06-07 10:54:01 <Doc_M> Artefact2 does it in javascript on the eligius website
1301 2011-06-07 10:54:11 <Doc_M> you could probably steal some of his code
1302 2011-06-07 10:54:15 <Doc_M> I think
1303 2011-06-07 10:54:20 <Doc_M> maybe I am misremembering
1304 2011-06-07 10:54:55 mosi has quit (work!~mos@217.22.80.82|Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
1305 2011-06-07 10:55:00 Xunie has joined
1306 2011-06-07 10:55:04 Xunie is now known as Guest51774
1307 2011-06-07 10:56:07 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1308 2011-06-07 10:58:31 <Xenland> intresting mate
1309 2011-06-07 11:00:03 TommyBoy3G has joined
1310 2011-06-07 11:03:16 nazgulnarsil has joined
1311 2011-06-07 11:07:15 [N00dles] has joined
1312 2011-06-07 11:08:31 [Noodles] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1313 2011-06-07 11:08:49 [N00dles] is now known as [Noodles]
1314 2011-06-07 11:10:18 <Doc_M> howdy folks, is there talk about a bitcoin lib?
1315 2011-06-07 11:10:51 nazgulnarsil has left ()
1316 2011-06-07 11:11:12 neopallium has left ("Leaving")
1317 2011-06-07 11:11:48 <diki> howdy agent_m
1318 2011-06-07 11:12:32 mmoya has joined
1319 2011-06-07 11:13:04 Guest51774 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1320 2011-06-07 11:13:41 Guest51774 has joined
1321 2011-06-07 11:14:27 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1322 2011-06-07 11:14:43 <Doc_M> what's up diki?
1323 2011-06-07 11:15:22 qazmki has joined
1324 2011-06-07 11:18:15 d1234 has joined
1325 2011-06-07 11:18:44 Xenland has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1326 2011-06-07 11:19:35 Xenland has joined
1327 2011-06-07 11:20:59 Gekz has joined
1328 2011-06-07 11:20:59 Gekz has quit (Changing host)
1329 2011-06-07 11:20:59 Gekz has joined
1330 2011-06-07 11:21:08 DontMindMe has joined
1331 2011-06-07 11:22:08 Incitatus has joined
1332 2011-06-07 11:22:39 dbitcoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1333 2011-06-07 11:23:37 dbitcoin has joined
1334 2011-06-07 11:25:18 Guest51774 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1335 2011-06-07 11:25:23 vigilyn has joined
1336 2011-06-07 11:26:00 Xenland has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1337 2011-06-07 11:26:06 Guest51774 has joined
1338 2011-06-07 11:28:01 <Doc_M> Is someone DOSing mtgox? its hella slow
1339 2011-06-07 11:28:23 <Doc_M> or some badly designed JSON program somewhere?
1340 2011-06-07 11:29:33 <tcatm> Maybe they switched the backend and it doesn't cache?
1341 2011-06-07 11:30:29 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calc 300000
1342 2011-06-07 11:30:30 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 13 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 16 minutes, and 56 seconds
1343 2011-06-07 11:34:40 intractable has quit (Quit: ....)
1344 2011-06-07 11:34:58 <lizthegrey> incidentally, I'm kind of curious related to the discussion of police stops
1345 2011-06-07 11:35:16 <lizthegrey> if I am carrying more than $10,000 of btc in privkeys on my laptop
1346 2011-06-07 11:35:17 qazmki has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1347 2011-06-07 11:35:33 <lizthegrey> and I get stopped by customs without declaring that I'm carrying $10,000 in btc, do they have a right to arrest me?
1348 2011-06-07 11:35:43 kish has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1349 2011-06-07 11:35:48 <phantomcircuit> lizthegrey, maybe?
1350 2011-06-07 11:35:55 <lizthegrey> obviously the trivial workaround is to shred my wallet before I leave on the trip, and scp the files to my destination
1351 2011-06-07 11:35:58 <phantomcircuit> again depends on whether btc is currency or commodity
1352 2011-06-07 11:35:59 <lizthegrey> but still
1353 2011-06-07 11:36:23 fckStick has joined
1354 2011-06-07 11:37:09 brime_ has joined
1355 2011-06-07 11:39:26 Guest51774 is now known as Xunie
1356 2011-06-07 11:39:32 Xunie has quit (Changing host)
1357 2011-06-07 11:39:32 Xunie has joined
1358 2011-06-07 11:39:43 brime has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1359 2011-06-07 11:39:43 RBecker has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1360 2011-06-07 11:39:43 sshirokov has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1361 2011-06-07 11:39:46 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1362 2011-06-07 11:39:56 <Doc_M> "right to arrest you" since when did rights make a difference in arrest?
1363 2011-06-07 11:40:04 <Doc_M> they will arrest you when they think its a good idea
1364 2011-06-07 11:40:07 dukeleto has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1365 2011-06-07 11:40:07 BurningToad has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1366 2011-06-07 11:40:07 denorm_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1367 2011-06-07 11:40:07 purplezky has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1368 2011-06-07 11:40:13 denorm has joined
1369 2011-06-07 11:40:13 purplezky has joined
1370 2011-06-07 11:40:15 BurningToad has joined
1371 2011-06-07 11:40:16 <phantomcircuit> Doc_M, false arrest is a serious crime
1372 2011-06-07 11:40:17 Sami345 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1373 2011-06-07 11:40:20 <Doc_M> rights might help you get out of jail later, but in general if a cop wants to take you in, they will
1374 2011-06-07 11:40:22 TheAncientGoat_ has joined
1375 2011-06-07 11:40:23 <Doc_M> not really
1376 2011-06-07 11:40:25 RBecker has joined
1377 2011-06-07 11:40:38 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1378 2011-06-07 11:40:44 dukeleto has joined
1379 2011-06-07 11:40:45 <Doc_M> due to the way the law is they can ALWAYS find something
1380 2011-06-07 11:40:53 sshirokov has joined
1381 2011-06-07 11:40:57 <phantomcircuit> sure unless you really did nothing wrong at all
1382 2011-06-07 11:41:02 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1383 2011-06-07 11:41:11 <Doc_M> its a cop saying, "you may not be convicted but you can always take the car trip"
1384 2011-06-07 11:41:14 Sami345 has joined
1385 2011-06-07 11:41:17 perol has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1386 2011-06-07 11:41:19 <Doc_M> nope, phantom, you did
1387 2011-06-07 11:41:22 <Doc_M> everyone is a criminal
1388 2011-06-07 11:41:27 <Doc_M> most people are felons
1389 2011-06-07 11:41:30 <Doc_M> they just don't know it yet
1390 2011-06-07 11:41:31 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1391 2011-06-07 11:41:47 <Doc_M> most CEOs for example commit about 5 felonies a day without even knowing it
1392 2011-06-07 11:41:58 <phantomcircuit> Doc_M, yes but you need to show that the cop could have known about it
1393 2011-06-07 11:42:00 <Doc_M> sorry 3
1394 2011-06-07 11:42:00 zooko has joined
1395 2011-06-07 11:42:09 <Doc_M> nah
1396 2011-06-07 11:42:18 <phantomcircuit> uh yes
1397 2011-06-07 11:42:19 <Doc_M> they can say they were suspicious or they thought you were someone else
1398 2011-06-07 11:42:24 <Doc_M> seriously man
1399 2011-06-07 11:42:27 <lizthegrey> doc_m: the difference is, the $10k rule lets them seize my money
1400 2011-06-07 11:42:39 <Doc_M> they can seize a lot less than that
1401 2011-06-07 11:42:42 <lizthegrey> anything else, they can maybe send me to jail
1402 2011-06-07 11:42:50 <lizthegrey> but I'm not worried about that as much
1403 2011-06-07 11:42:51 <Doc_M> http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556
1404 2011-06-07 11:42:56 <phantomcircuit> sigh
1405 2011-06-07 11:43:03 <Doc_M> got yah, liz
1406 2011-06-07 11:43:09 <phantomcircuit> Doc_M, they can seize amounts > 10k without a court order to do so
1407 2011-06-07 11:43:15 <Doc_M> yes
1408 2011-06-07 11:43:18 <phantomcircuit> amounts less than that require a court order
1409 2011-06-07 11:43:28 <Doc_M> depends on jurisdiction
1410 2011-06-07 11:43:34 <Doc_M> some are as low as 1k, iirc
1411 2011-06-07 11:43:54 <phantomcircuit> it's a federal drug statute
1412 2011-06-07 11:44:08 <Doc_M> state police exist too
1413 2011-06-07 11:44:17 <Doc_M> and different states have different rules regarding that
1414 2011-06-07 11:44:26 <Doc_M> anyway you can argue that your wallet isn't the money
1415 2011-06-07 11:44:30 <Doc_M> its just a password
1416 2011-06-07 11:44:32 <phantomcircuit> yes but they all need a court order
1417 2011-06-07 11:44:49 <phantomcircuit> the federal law uses the interstate commerce clause to enact it
1418 2011-06-07 11:44:59 <phantomcircuit> states do not have the same powers of constitutional bullshitery
1419 2011-06-07 11:45:14 <Doc_M> they have more power wrt to this
1420 2011-06-07 11:45:50 <vegard> whether or not you bring your bitcoin wallet shouldn't matter
1421 2011-06-07 11:45:55 Xunie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1422 2011-06-07 11:46:00 <vegard> bitcoin is more like online banking
1423 2011-06-07 11:46:12 <vegard> they won't arrest you for bringing your online bank pin code abroad
1424 2011-06-07 11:46:13 <Doc_M> as they have what is known as a "general police power" so they can make smaller amounts illegal to carry
1425 2011-06-07 11:46:19 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1426 2011-06-07 11:46:34 Xunie has joined
1427 2011-06-07 11:46:36 Xunie is now known as Guest70508
1428 2011-06-07 11:46:41 gsathya has joined
1429 2011-06-07 11:46:58 Kurtov has joined
1430 2011-06-07 11:47:05 zxer has joined
1431 2011-06-07 11:47:19 <lizthegrey> hmm, I've been arguing that possession of the wallet's signing keys constitutes possessing the money, and that the act of signing a transaction constitutes the value transfer
1432 2011-06-07 11:47:33 Guest70508 is now known as Xunie
1433 2011-06-07 11:47:38 <lizthegrey> and that the network is effectively a set of dumb pipes that rebroadcast signed transactions that meet criteria
1434 2011-06-07 11:47:43 Xunie has quit (Changing host)
1435 2011-06-07 11:47:43 Xunie has joined
1436 2011-06-07 11:47:58 <Doc_M> in truth the legality doesn't matter
1437 2011-06-07 11:48:04 <lizthegrey> (analogy to writing out a cashier's check, and depositing it in the mail)
1438 2011-06-07 11:48:09 <Doc_M> they will sieze what they want, and then make you go to court to get it back
1439 2011-06-07 11:48:21 <Doc_M> then the court case will drag on for years
1440 2011-06-07 11:48:27 <Doc_M> and you will run out of money fighting it
1441 2011-06-07 11:48:32 <Doc_M> I know people who this has happened to
1442 2011-06-07 11:48:54 BlueMatt has joined
1443 2011-06-07 11:48:57 <Doc_M> and chances are, if its say⦠a car⦠they already sold it
1444 2011-06-07 11:49:01 enky has joined
1445 2011-06-07 11:49:15 enky has left ()
1446 2011-06-07 11:49:29 perol has joined
1447 2011-06-07 11:49:33 <Doc_M> the way you win, is them not knowing you have BTC on you, encrypting your wallet file is a good one
1448 2011-06-07 11:49:41 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1449 2011-06-07 11:49:46 <Doc_M> or just emailing an encrypted copy to yourself
1450 2011-06-07 11:50:11 <lizthegrey> aye, my entire hdd is encrypted, so that's pretty simple.
1451 2011-06-07 11:50:36 <Doc_M> they can take your HD as evidence if they think you have done something, so you want an off site backup
1452 2011-06-07 11:50:48 <Doc_M> not in a safe deposit box, because they can take that too
1453 2011-06-07 11:51:02 <vegard> pastebin ;)
1454 2011-06-07 11:52:11 <z310> pastebin? haha
1455 2011-06-07 11:54:02 <lizthegrey> lulz, speaking of money laundering, I just found $5 that went through the wash :P
1456 2011-06-07 11:56:00 <Graet> lol nice'
1457 2011-06-07 11:56:45 AgoristRadio has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1458 2011-06-07 11:56:57 torsthaldo has joined
1459 2011-06-07 12:00:13 <Doc_M> heh nice
1460 2011-06-07 12:03:11 DukeOfURL has joined
1461 2011-06-07 12:05:36 [Noodles] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1462 2011-06-07 12:07:56 ius has joined
1463 2011-06-07 12:08:35 skeledrew has joined
1464 2011-06-07 12:11:24 Gekz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1465 2011-06-07 12:17:25 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
1466 2011-06-07 12:19:10 d1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1467 2011-06-07 12:20:45 Speeder has joined
1468 2011-06-07 12:20:49 dedeibel has joined
1469 2011-06-07 12:23:37 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1470 2011-06-07 12:23:52 d1234 has joined
1471 2011-06-07 12:23:52 Sedra has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1472 2011-06-07 12:28:56 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
1473 2011-06-07 12:34:53 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1474 2011-06-07 12:35:24 xelister has joined
1475 2011-06-07 12:35:25 zxer has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1476 2011-06-07 12:35:37 metonymous has quit (Quit: metonymous)
1477 2011-06-07 12:36:11 <xelister> Diablo-D3: hi, mind remining me
1478 2011-06-07 12:36:25 <xelister> which amd's driver fglrx sucks cock the least, for 5xxx and sdk 2.1?
1479 2011-06-07 12:38:09 mosi has joined
1480 2011-06-07 12:38:11 datagutt has joined
1481 2011-06-07 12:38:11 datagutt has quit (Changing host)
1482 2011-06-07 12:38:11 datagutt has joined
1483 2011-06-07 12:38:18 Sedra has joined
1484 2011-06-07 12:43:58 perol has quit (Quit: 离å¼)
1485 2011-06-07 12:44:38 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1486 2011-06-07 12:47:22 subpar has joined
1487 2011-06-07 12:47:29 subpar has quit (Changing host)
1488 2011-06-07 12:47:30 subpar has joined
1489 2011-06-07 12:48:02 backwardation25 has joined
1490 2011-06-07 12:54:42 killerstorm has joined
1491 2011-06-07 12:56:02 Xyz has joined
1492 2011-06-07 12:58:19 <killerstorm> hi. does official client ever create transactions with more than one output?
1493 2011-06-07 12:58:28 <killerstorm> I mean more then two.
1494 2011-06-07 12:58:50 mosi has quit (work!~mos@217.22.80.82|Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
1495 2011-06-07 12:59:42 <killerstorm> oh, nevermind, I see sendmany RPC now
1496 2011-06-07 13:00:53 backwardation25 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1497 2011-06-07 13:04:15 redengin has joined
1498 2011-06-07 13:05:02 <necrodearia> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12672
1499 2011-06-07 13:06:31 kakaken has joined
1500 2011-06-07 13:07:16 zyb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1501 2011-06-07 13:09:17 Kurtov has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1502 2011-06-07 13:10:47 <vegard> I'm having problems cloning from github
1503 2011-06-07 13:10:55 <vegard> error: SSL certificate problem, verify that the CA cert is OK. Details:
1504 2011-06-07 13:10:55 <vegard> error:14090086:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed
1505 2011-06-07 13:11:06 <vegard> that's for git clone https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
1506 2011-06-07 13:11:35 <vegard> with http instead of https, I get: warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout.
1507 2011-06-07 13:12:03 <vegard> git url finally worked, though.
1508 2011-06-07 13:13:18 zyb has joined
1509 2011-06-07 13:13:22 sshc has joined
1510 2011-06-07 13:14:05 johnnympereira5 has joined
1511 2011-06-07 13:18:14 MasterChief has joined
1512 2011-06-07 13:18:19 <johnnympereira5> ;;bc,stats
1513 2011-06-07 13:18:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129199 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1840 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 18 hours, 6 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 677858.22342977
1514 2011-06-07 13:18:51 eian has joined
1515 2011-06-07 13:19:59 Titeuf_87 has joined
1516 2011-06-07 13:22:08 eianpsego has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1517 2011-06-07 13:22:56 pRjck3vC has joined
1518 2011-06-07 13:27:59 p0s has joined
1519 2011-06-07 13:32:27 zyb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1520 2011-06-07 13:35:18 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1521 2011-06-07 13:35:27 darbsllim has joined
1522 2011-06-07 13:35:28 brocktice has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1523 2011-06-07 13:35:49 torsthaldo_ has joined
1524 2011-06-07 13:36:24 agricocb has joined
1525 2011-06-07 13:36:47 killerstorm has left ()
1526 2011-06-07 13:36:52 torsthaldo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1527 2011-06-07 13:37:49 ar4s has joined
1528 2011-06-07 13:38:10 zyb has joined
1529 2011-06-07 13:39:44 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1530 2011-06-07 13:40:05 <diki> what is the max nonce?
1531 2011-06-07 13:40:17 darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1532 2011-06-07 13:40:34 agricocb has joined
1533 2011-06-07 13:42:32 fckStick has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1534 2011-06-07 13:43:27 glassresistor has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1535 2011-06-07 13:50:28 marcin__ has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
1536 2011-06-07 13:51:12 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1537 2011-06-07 13:53:31 torsthaldo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1538 2011-06-07 13:56:03 wistiu has joined
1539 2011-06-07 13:56:46 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
1540 2011-06-07 13:56:52 insanehitz has joined
1541 2011-06-07 13:56:53 <insanehitz> hello
1542 2011-06-07 13:57:10 <insanehitz> i need some coins on *testnet*, anybody can give me please?
1543 2011-06-07 13:58:39 ar4s has joined
1544 2011-06-07 14:04:54 molecular has joined
1545 2011-06-07 14:05:07 bitcoiner has joined
1546 2011-06-07 14:06:16 RogueAdmin has left ()
1547 2011-06-07 14:07:50 HEx1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1548 2011-06-07 14:09:52 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1549 2011-06-07 14:10:11 Kurtov has joined
1550 2011-06-07 14:10:31 arienh4 has joined
1551 2011-06-07 14:10:55 glassresistor has joined
1552 2011-06-07 14:10:55 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
1553 2011-06-07 14:10:55 glassresistor has joined
1554 2011-06-07 14:11:29 redengin has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1555 2011-06-07 14:12:49 <Graet> Diablo-D3 a guy tring to join my pool is failing - he's the only one so far , can you see a reaon in this "Diablo i have: ./DiabloMiner-OSX.sh -u yazi.mpb -p root -o ozco.in -r 8332 BFI_INT" that would stop him connecting?
1556 2011-06-07 14:12:52 <Graet> thanks
1557 2011-06-07 14:13:17 <ersi> Do you get any output from his miner at all?
1558 2011-06-07 14:13:21 <Graet> looks fine to me but i'm not mac and havent tried your mine
1559 2011-06-07 14:13:35 <insanehitz> nobody have coins on *testnet*?
1560 2011-06-07 14:13:37 <arienh4> Does anyone know if there's any information available about running a pool, other than the pushpool source?
1561 2011-06-07 14:13:55 <arienh4> I tried searching the wiki, searching the forums, but it seems very scarcely documented.
1562 2011-06-07 14:14:04 <Graet> sorry ersi i'm not the coder
1563 2011-06-07 14:14:12 <Doc_M> what s the error message?
1564 2011-06-07 14:14:14 <ersi> arienh4: Well, it's pretty scarce. There's no 'out of the box poolsoftware', you'll have to make a shit load of stuff yourself.
1565 2011-06-07 14:14:16 GarrettB has joined
1566 2011-06-07 14:14:16 GarrettB has quit (Changing host)
1567 2011-06-07 14:14:16 GarrettB has joined
1568 2011-06-07 14:14:30 <Graet> he cannot connect
1569 2011-06-07 14:14:31 <ersi> Graet: I'm more thinking it's a problem between his chair and your pool
1570 2011-06-07 14:14:36 <arienh4> ersi: I'm looking to make it all myself.
1571 2011-06-07 14:14:38 <Graet> haha
1572 2011-06-07 14:14:39 Kiba has joined
1573 2011-06-07 14:14:43 <Graet> me too lol but cheers
1574 2011-06-07 14:15:00 <arienh4> But I need some kind of documentation on how pools work, from a technical perspective.
1575 2011-06-07 14:15:16 ThomasV has joined
1576 2011-06-07 14:15:17 <ersi> arienh4: Well, get up and running with pushpool and feed the shares etc into a database of some sort and make a frontend to it all
1577 2011-06-07 14:15:25 <Graet> arienh4 i searched for ages
1578 2011-06-07 14:15:37 <ThomasV> how can I rename an account in my wallet ?
1579 2011-06-07 14:15:42 <arienh4> ersi: I could, but I want to do it from scratch, because I'd like to support some things that pushpool won't.
1580 2011-06-07 14:15:57 <arienh4> And distilling the information from only source-code is very painful.
1581 2011-06-07 14:15:58 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1582 2011-06-07 14:16:33 <iz> is anyone here using the pushpool blkmond with the 0.3.22 bitcoind client? what changes are needed? i tried incrementing MY_VERSION a few different ways, but with no effect
1583 2011-06-07 14:16:42 <ersi> arienh4: As far as *I* know.. that's your best source of information unfortunally :(
1584 2011-06-07 14:17:12 <arienh4> I was afraid of that.
1585 2011-06-07 14:17:28 <ersi> And if I'm not completely wrong, this information is ultimately distilled from the official bitcoin clients mining/rpc parts
1586 2011-06-07 14:18:03 <arienh4> I figured, if you could run a decent pool, you can provide immediate payouts without causing people too much TX fees
1587 2011-06-07 14:18:09 agricocb has joined
1588 2011-06-07 14:18:22 <arienh4> By simply giving coins that come from a block you generated a discount on fees.
1589 2011-06-07 14:18:26 sbasuita has joined
1590 2011-06-07 14:18:34 <iz> arienh4: well.. you can do no tx fee payouts in the NEXT block
1591 2011-06-07 14:18:37 <arienh4> Of course you'd need a lot of miners to pull that off.
1592 2011-06-07 14:18:43 <iz> but it's difficult to do it in the current block
1593 2011-06-07 14:18:57 <arienh4> Depends. If you do the payouts using the generation transaction.
1594 2011-06-07 14:19:05 <iz> because you don't know how much to award ppl yet.. since it's a % of user shares over total shares needed to find the block
1595 2011-06-07 14:19:08 <bliket> they took out generating bitcoins in 3.2.2
1596 2011-06-07 14:19:14 <ersi> arienh4: am I understanding it wrong, if I think you mean that you'd take the transaction fees from the solved block to pay your workers?
1597 2011-06-07 14:19:15 <arienh4> look at Eligius
1598 2011-06-07 14:19:23 <arienh4> no, that's not what I mean
1599 2011-06-07 14:19:28 sbasuita has left ()
1600 2011-06-07 14:19:35 <ersi> 'k, was afraid I was getting it totally wrong
1601 2011-06-07 14:19:42 <arienh4> The reason all pools wait until 1 BTC is to avoid later transaction fees because the coins are so small
1602 2011-06-07 14:19:43 <iz> arienh4: yeah, that's paying out from previously found blocks.. eligius
1603 2011-06-07 14:19:55 <iz> arienh4: no, that's not the only reason
1604 2011-06-07 14:20:01 <arienh4> it's the major reason eligius does it
1605 2011-06-07 14:20:20 <iz> also, you don't know what the exact block payout per miner will be for that block UNTIL you happen to find it
1606 2011-06-07 14:20:32 <arienh4> if you pay 1 BTC with lots of coins worth 0.00001 each, the size of the transaction causes a lot of fees
1607 2011-06-07 14:20:35 <iz> so you can't payout the miners FOR that block IN that block
1608 2011-06-07 14:20:44 <arienh4> iz: to a reasonable extent, you can
1609 2011-06-07 14:20:46 <iz> you can do it in the next block accurately though
1610 2011-06-07 14:20:52 <arienh4> you just can't pay out the last miner
1611 2011-06-07 14:20:55 <iz> arienh4: how would you propose to do that?
1612 2011-06-07 14:21:02 <arienh4> As I said, Eligius already does it
1613 2011-06-07 14:21:04 <iz> no, because ALL of the amounts change
1614 2011-06-07 14:21:18 <arienh4> not substantially
1615 2011-06-07 14:21:32 <iz> no, he pays out ppl that are owed from previous blocks
1616 2011-06-07 14:21:45 <iz> arienh4: think about how block generation works technically
1617 2011-06-07 14:21:53 <arienh4> hmm, I misunderstood
1618 2011-06-07 14:21:58 <iz> and how the reward is divided across shares
1619 2011-06-07 14:22:02 <arienh4> I know what you mean
1620 2011-06-07 14:22:08 <iz> werd
1621 2011-06-07 14:22:10 <arienh4> and it's possible, but it would never be precise
1622 2011-06-07 14:22:14 <iz> yeah
1623 2011-06-07 14:22:35 <arienh4> anyway, still, that's not what I was talking about
1624 2011-06-07 14:22:36 <iz> you would have to update the merkle tree for ALL miners every time ANYONE finds a new share
1625 2011-06-07 14:22:40 <iz> for it to be accurate
1626 2011-06-07 14:23:00 <iz> for the block everyone is trying to solve
1627 2011-06-07 14:23:16 <diki> so i have 100 confirmations, but my balance is still 0.00
1628 2011-06-07 14:23:16 <arienh4> what I meant was, if you pay out someone in very small amounts, all transactions using those small amounts will cost a lot in TX fees, right?
1629 2011-06-07 14:23:40 <ersi> diki: Found a block? Then it's 120 confirmations
1630 2011-06-07 14:23:46 <iz> arienh4: well.. if you are solving the block that these payout transactions are in.. you don't need to use any tx fees :D
1631 2011-06-07 14:23:51 <diki> but pools wait for 100
1632 2011-06-07 14:23:55 <diki> and yes, i found a block
1633 2011-06-07 14:23:56 <iz> because it's your pool's block anyway
1634 2011-06-07 14:24:28 <diki> ok, but pools wait for 100
1635 2011-06-07 14:24:32 <iz> that's another reason to include all the owed payouts from previous solved blocks in the next block the pool is trying to solve
1636 2011-06-07 14:24:33 <ersi> They won't mature until 120 confirmations. That some pools wait to just 100 is totally up to them afaik, like if they got money buffered up
1637 2011-06-07 14:25:22 <ersi> Oh, this is only valid for the official bitcoin client according to the wiki o_o
1638 2011-06-07 14:25:47 <arienh4> but transactions using smaller coins are big if they are later spent by the miner too, right?
1639 2011-06-07 14:26:52 <iz> um.. well, i think it defaults to 0.0005 in the new client
1640 2011-06-07 14:27:02 <arienh4> per KB, right?
1641 2011-06-07 14:27:07 <iz> but you can set that to 0 if you want.. but it might not get accepted into any blocks
1642 2011-06-07 14:27:26 <iz> there are still some pools that accept 0 tx fee transactions that don't come from them
1643 2011-06-07 14:27:51 <iz> but your transaction won't go through until one of those pools finds a block
1644 2011-06-07 14:28:51 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1645 2011-06-07 14:29:18 <arienh4> But then every confirmation has to come from those pools, right?
1646 2011-06-07 14:29:21 <JFK911> oh is there a new client released?
1647 2011-06-07 14:29:23 <iz> nope
1648 2011-06-07 14:29:30 <arienh4> So how do confirmations actually work?
1649 2011-06-07 14:29:32 <iz> yes to new client, nope to confirmations
1650 2011-06-07 14:30:13 <iz> arienh4: so the sha256 hash with the right number of leading 0 bits is what all the miners are looking for.. which is computationally expensive to find..
1651 2011-06-07 14:30:26 <arienh4> Yeah, I know that.
1652 2011-06-07 14:30:35 <iz> but fairly easy to confirm, once you know the right data
1653 2011-06-07 14:30:37 <JFK911> aha
1654 2011-06-07 14:30:43 <ersi> diki: I can't find any definitve sources, but a lot of forum posts and a few wiki pages suggest that it takes 120 confirmations before a block is mature. I'm not sure if that's just the bitcoin-gui/bitcoind's "UI" or if it's actually spendable then
1655 2011-06-07 14:30:47 <arienh4> Technically, it's just when the hash is below the target
1656 2011-06-07 14:30:48 <iz> so it's the other peer confirming a solved block is really solved
1657 2011-06-07 14:30:48 <ersi> definitive*
1658 2011-06-07 14:31:00 <iz> peers
1659 2011-06-07 14:31:08 <arienh4> Oh, so confirmations are about the block, not the transaction.
1660 2011-06-07 14:31:24 <iz> hmm.. well.. actually.. i don't know the answer for that for sure
1661 2011-06-07 14:31:43 <iz> but it does have to do with the other peers confirming that it's legit
1662 2011-06-07 14:32:13 <arienh4> Mining pools also confirm transactions, don't they?
1663 2011-06-07 14:32:34 <arienh4> All I know about transactions is that they use public-key cryptography somehow
1664 2011-06-07 14:32:45 <arienh4> So that would have to be confirmed as well
1665 2011-06-07 14:36:32 brocktice has joined
1666 2011-06-07 14:37:07 <Doc_M> everyone confirms transactions iirc
1667 2011-06-07 14:37:16 <Doc_M> I think
1668 2011-06-07 14:37:27 <arienh4> Apparently, it uses some kind of scripting language
1669 2011-06-07 14:37:27 <Doc_M> I mean confirms blocks
1670 2011-06-07 14:37:29 <arienh4> I have NO idea why.
1671 2011-06-07 14:38:06 <ersi> ;;bc,stats
1672 2011-06-07 14:38:08 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129211 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1828 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 14 hours, 23 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 683165.56019216
1673 2011-06-07 14:38:19 DrBong has quit (Quit: leaving)
1674 2011-06-07 14:38:29 <gmaxwell> The IRC is still being blackholed at my home, FWIW.
1675 2011-06-07 14:40:11 Kiba has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1676 2011-06-07 14:40:51 Kiba has joined
1677 2011-06-07 14:41:03 mmoya has joined
1678 2011-06-07 14:41:08 <arienh4> Okay, this seems overly complicated to me
1679 2011-06-07 14:41:17 <arienh4> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction
1680 2011-06-07 14:41:22 <arienh4> Why does this require a script?
1681 2011-06-07 14:41:53 <lizthegrey> arienh4: to be extensible.
1682 2011-06-07 14:42:08 <lizthegrey> that way you can implement things such as 'parties Alice and Bob must both sign away coins for them to be spendable'
1683 2011-06-07 14:42:09 <arienh4> Oh, right.
1684 2011-06-07 14:42:28 <lizthegrey> that currently isn't commonly used (they're viewed as non-standard TX), but it's in the spec.
1685 2011-06-07 14:42:40 <vegard> hm. at ~125 connections, bitcoind seems to be at a constant 15% cpu load :-/
1686 2011-06-07 14:42:56 <arienh4> lizthegrey: It requires all parties to use a custom client, no?
1687 2011-06-07 14:43:53 <lizthegrey> arienh4: no - once a transaction is in a block it's usable, but standard clients won't accept or forward them
1688 2011-06-07 14:44:05 <lizthegrey> so you can submit such transactions to eligius or another pool operator that accepts non-standard tx
1689 2011-06-07 14:44:16 <lizthegrey> and have them incorporated into a block
1690 2011-06-07 14:44:30 <arienh4> So a type of script is a contract
1691 2011-06-07 14:44:49 <arienh4> And the client checks whether the contract is the same for any transaction?
1692 2011-06-07 14:44:56 <Doc_M> which operators accept non standard tx?
1693 2011-06-07 14:44:58 <lizthegrey> so it requires a custom client to generate the transaction, and a custom mining pool operator's bitcoin node to accept
1694 2011-06-07 14:45:08 <lizthegrey> doc_m: just eligius as far as major players go
1695 2011-06-07 14:45:34 <lizthegrey> there's a wiki page about that
1696 2011-06-07 14:47:27 joepie94 has joined
1697 2011-06-07 14:48:39 <lizthegrey> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Free_transaction_relay_policy
1698 2011-06-07 14:49:32 <Doc_M> thanks lizthegrey
1699 2011-06-07 14:49:43 joepie93 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1700 2011-06-07 14:50:43 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1701 2011-06-07 14:51:07 <iz> arienh4: sorta.. the script is like a contract that says pay this transaction amount to whoever can prove they have the private key associated w/ a specific bitcoin addr
1702 2011-06-07 14:51:39 <iz> arienh4: and then the client's wallet.dat has the private key and can claim those bitcoins from that transaction whenever they want
1703 2011-06-07 14:52:15 <Doc_M> yikes a json api for bitcoind?
1704 2011-06-07 14:52:28 <Doc_M> so much easier to steal wallets then
1705 2011-06-07 14:52:43 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1706 2011-06-07 14:52:50 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
1707 2011-06-07 14:53:18 <iz> Doc_M: that's why it is username/password protected.. i thought of that idea also
1708 2011-06-07 14:53:33 <lizthegrey> the problem is weak passwords
1709 2011-06-07 14:53:37 <lizthegrey> the correct thing is to only listen on localhost
1710 2011-06-07 14:53:41 <lizthegrey> which will suffice for most users
1711 2011-06-07 14:53:45 user102 has joined
1712 2011-06-07 14:53:46 <arienh4> doc_m bitcoind has always had a JSON/RPC interface
1713 2011-06-07 14:54:01 <lizthegrey> this is part of the problem with the bitcoin c++ client reference implementation - it's 'everything and the kitchen sink'
1714 2011-06-07 14:54:03 <arienh4> the actual bitcoin client does too.
1715 2011-06-07 14:54:15 <iz> lizthegrey: well, i was thinking of malicious javascript in webpages that would make request to localhost:8332 >:b
1716 2011-06-07 14:54:16 <Doc_M> sorry I meant the bitcoin client
1717 2011-06-07 14:54:19 <Doc_M> I am sleepy
1718 2011-06-07 14:54:23 <Doc_M> yah liz
1719 2011-06-07 14:54:27 <Doc_M> thats scary
1720 2011-06-07 14:54:40 <Doc_M> and localhost isn't protected by the normal javascript protections
1721 2011-06-07 14:54:53 ar4s has joined
1722 2011-06-07 14:55:02 <luke-jr> lizthegrey: the problem is the password is cleartext in ~/.bitcoin
1723 2011-06-07 14:55:02 <iz> Doc_M: but an attacker would have to guess both the valid username AND password
1724 2011-06-07 14:55:03 <arienh4> I thought browsers explicitly disallowed domains to access localhost for this reason
1725 2011-06-07 14:55:17 <Doc_M> they don't arienh4
1726 2011-06-07 14:56:08 <vegard> cool. makes online payment much easier! ;)
1727 2011-06-07 14:56:16 <arienh4> doesn't AJAX require the same domain?
1728 2011-06-07 14:57:04 <lizthegrey> luke-jr: seems like an easy solution would be to store a hashed/salted pw in ~/.bitcoin rather than plaintext
1729 2011-06-07 14:57:21 <luke-jr> lizthegrey: impossible
1730 2011-06-07 14:57:37 <arienh4> luke-jr: Why?
1731 2011-06-07 14:58:14 <luke-jr> â¦
1732 2011-06-07 14:58:22 blub_ has joined
1733 2011-06-07 14:58:28 <arienh4> Why is that impossible?
1734 2011-06-07 14:58:29 <luke-jr> because hashes are irreversible
1735 2011-06-07 14:58:32 <arienh4> So?
1736 2011-06-07 14:58:47 <arienh4> The server doesn't need to know the password
1737 2011-06-07 14:58:49 <luke-jr> actually, I suppose it's possible since bitcoind currently gets the password cleartext over RPC
1738 2011-06-07 14:58:54 <arienh4> it only needs to know whether the user knows the password
1739 2011-06-07 14:59:03 blub_ has quit (Client Quit)
1740 2011-06-07 14:59:03 <luke-jr> but ideally, that should be fixed :P
1741 2011-06-07 14:59:25 <lizthegrey> this means you'd have to enter the password manually when using the client part of bitcoin
1742 2011-06-07 14:59:34 <luke-jr> arienh4: which it can't unless it knows the password
1743 2011-06-07 14:59:34 <gmaxwell> vegard: that load is probably because you getting the initial blockchain.
1744 2011-06-07 14:59:36 <lizthegrey> but it would at least mean that the server part of bitcoin wouldn't need to hold onto the password.
1745 2011-06-07 14:59:52 <arienh4> wait... we're talking about the password to the server, right?
1746 2011-06-07 14:59:54 <iz> arienh4: js does have cross-domain protections for localhost, but there are other browser tricks you can do to get the job done
1747 2011-06-07 15:00:02 <lizthegrey> you could still choose to enter the client password and save it to a file
1748 2011-06-07 15:00:05 <arienh4> luke-jr: it can verify the password by hashing it
1749 2011-06-07 15:00:16 <vegard> gmaxwell: I don't think so. I have it.
1750 2011-06-07 15:00:23 <luke-jr> arienh4: only as long as the password is sent cleartext for RPC
1751 2011-06-07 15:00:23 <lizthegrey> but that would at least make it more secure in terms of data stored at rest
1752 2011-06-07 15:00:26 <luke-jr> which is a bigger problem
1753 2011-06-07 15:00:36 <lizthegrey> https support?
1754 2011-06-07 15:00:41 <gmaxwell> vegard: hm. odd. thats certantly not a behavior I'm seeing.
1755 2011-06-07 15:00:45 <arienh4> that's unavoidable, unless you encrypt all communication with the server
1756 2011-06-07 15:00:51 <luke-jr> lizthegrey: https support requires a cert
1757 2011-06-07 15:00:52 <arienh4> which would indeed require TLS
1758 2011-06-07 15:00:54 <vegard> gmaxwell: 129212 blocks
1759 2011-06-07 15:01:03 <arienh4> luke-jr: that's not a big issue
1760 2011-06-07 15:01:05 <arienh4> create your own
1761 2011-06-07 15:01:12 <luke-jr> arienh4: MITM can create your own
1762 2011-06-07 15:01:16 <lizthegrey> self-signed certs are not that difficult
1763 2011-06-07 15:01:20 <arienh4> not if you install the certificate
1764 2011-06-07 15:01:22 <lizthegrey> and as long as you record the fingerprint
1765 2011-06-07 15:01:25 <arienh4> exactly
1766 2011-06-07 15:01:26 <vegard> gmaxwell: and actually, it's not 15% but 25% :-/ (typoed)
1767 2011-06-07 15:01:26 <lizthegrey> this is similar to why ssh keys work
1768 2011-06-07 15:01:39 <arienh4> and bitcoin itself
1769 2011-06-07 15:01:39 <luke-jr> they don't work
1770 2011-06-07 15:01:41 <lizthegrey> there's no central infrastructure, you test from a known good machine (e.g. localhost)
1771 2011-06-07 15:01:47 <lizthegrey> since you know you won't be mitmed locally
1772 2011-06-07 15:01:50 <arienh4> luke-jr: Only if you use it badly
1773 2011-06-07 15:01:53 <lizthegrey> and then you can connect remotely and remember the cert.
1774 2011-06-07 15:01:58 <luke-jr> arienh4: which 99% of people do
1775 2011-06-07 15:02:03 <lizthegrey> I trust myself to remember my ssh keys.
1776 2011-06-07 15:02:07 <arienh4> luke-jr: not if the software doesn't allow it
1777 2011-06-07 15:02:15 <arienh4> MITM can't change the fingerprint
1778 2011-06-07 15:02:15 <luke-jr> arienh4: all software allows it
1779 2011-06-07 15:02:24 <gmaxwell> vegard: with ~1000 connections (modified client) I was only seeing a couple percent load on average.
1780 2011-06-07 15:02:28 <lizthegrey> this is already a problem with ssh, so *shrug*
1781 2011-06-07 15:02:31 <arienh4> any SSH client throws a big warning if it doesn't recognise the fingerprint
1782 2011-06-07 15:02:36 <lizthegrey> some people use ssh properly, some people don't.
1783 2011-06-07 15:02:43 <arienh4> if they ignore it, they're on their own
1784 2011-06-07 15:02:49 <iz> lol
1785 2011-06-07 15:02:50 <lizthegrey> the point is that right now people who care about security don't have a choice
1786 2011-06-07 15:02:53 <luke-jr> arienh4: virtually everyone ignores it
1787 2011-06-07 15:02:54 <lizthegrey> because passwords are stored plaintext
1788 2011-06-07 15:03:00 <lizthegrey> and transmitted in cleartext
1789 2011-06-07 15:03:02 <iz> ppl aren't using bitcoin's json rpc the way they use ssh
1790 2011-06-07 15:03:08 <gmaxwell> arienh4: Bad design. 99.99% of everyone ignores it, even clueful people. Clueless people have no hope
1791 2011-06-07 15:03:16 <lizthegrey> yes, there will be people who fuck up, but it's their fault
1792 2011-06-07 15:03:36 <iz> no, i mean from a functional viewpoint.. not from a security point of view
1793 2011-06-07 15:03:47 <gmaxwell> It's not acceptable to take a "your fault" position when you know in advance that just about everyone will screw up.
1794 2011-06-07 15:03:52 <lizthegrey> I'd rather first implement something that gives people who care about security the ability to act securely and then worry about how to make it usable by other people
1795 2011-06-07 15:04:00 <lizthegrey> right now EVERYONE IS SCREWING UP is my point
1796 2011-06-07 15:04:08 <lizthegrey> if we can make it better
1797 2011-06-07 15:04:10 <iz> are they?
1798 2011-06-07 15:04:10 <lizthegrey> why don't we?
1799 2011-06-07 15:04:22 <iz> or are you trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist?
1800 2011-06-07 15:04:24 <lizthegrey> yes. plaintext passwords, stored on disk, transmitted in cleartext
1801 2011-06-07 15:04:34 <iz> over localhost
1802 2011-06-07 15:04:40 <lizthegrey> granted, bitcoind defaults to only listening on localhost
1803 2011-06-07 15:04:46 <iz> not over the public internet
1804 2011-06-07 15:04:52 <gmaxwell> As iz says.
1805 2011-06-07 15:05:03 <lizthegrey> but the point is, you still shouldn't be storing plaintext passwords.
1806 2011-06-07 15:05:07 ius has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1807 2011-06-07 15:05:25 <lizthegrey> or at least, you should store hashes, and leave it up to the user whether to store the plaintext corresponding to the hash
1808 2011-06-07 15:05:26 <iz> pretend they are hashed then :b
1809 2011-06-07 15:05:29 ius has joined
1810 2011-06-07 15:05:30 <iz> what does it matter?
1811 2011-06-07 15:05:33 lulzplzkthx has quit (Disconnected by services)
1812 2011-06-07 15:05:47 <gmaxwell> lizthegrey: and you've just made it a pain to configure for what gain?
1813 2011-06-07 15:06:03 <Doc_M> people will store plaintext passwords
1814 2011-06-07 15:06:15 <Doc_M> beause we have to have so many passwords its impossible to remember them all
1815 2011-06-07 15:06:40 <Diablo-D3> [10:04:52] <Graet> Diablo-D3 a guy tring to join my pool is failing - he's the only one so far , can you see a reaon in this "Diablo i have: ./DiabloMiner-OSX.sh -u yazi.mpb -p root -o ozco.in -r 8332 BFI_INT" that would stop him connecting?
1816 2011-06-07 15:06:41 lulzplzkthx has joined
1817 2011-06-07 15:06:48 lulzplzkthx has quit (Disconnected by services)
1818 2011-06-07 15:06:49 <gmaxwell> The bitcoin is so far from having _this_ be its biggest problem rightnowâ¦
1819 2011-06-07 15:06:54 <Diablo-D3> Graet: why would he think BFI_INT is a valid argument?
1820 2011-06-07 15:06:54 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1821 2011-06-07 15:07:20 <Graet> its ok
1822 2011-06-07 15:07:30 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
1823 2011-06-07 15:07:31 <Graet> it was pebkac
1824 2011-06-07 15:07:39 <Diablo-D3> its always pebkac
1825 2011-06-07 15:07:50 <Diablo-D3> makes me wonder why I keep coding, honestly
1826 2011-06-07 15:07:51 <Graet> but i could ask him, like i said never used mac or your program
1827 2011-06-07 15:07:58 lulzplzkthx has joined
1828 2011-06-07 15:08:03 <Graet> sorry to disturb man :/
1829 2011-06-07 15:08:21 <Graet> sm y instead of cap on user :S
1830 2011-06-07 15:08:56 <xelister> I paid Diablo-D3 400 usd
1831 2011-06-07 15:08:59 devon_hillard has joined
1832 2011-06-07 15:09:31 <xelister> as 20 btc... ~4 weeks ago.. ~~~:->~~~ problem?
1833 2011-06-07 15:09:35 brunner has joined
1834 2011-06-07 15:09:38 peck has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1835 2011-06-07 15:10:49 sixteen has joined
1836 2011-06-07 15:10:56 <falafell> does the official .22 client have export import option for keys?
1837 2011-06-07 15:11:15 <sixteen> Hi! How is the message saying "Hey! I just mined this block!" to the bitcoin network called in the bitcoin "spec"?
1838 2011-06-07 15:11:58 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1839 2011-06-07 15:12:01 <sixteen> Hi! How is the message saying to the bitcoin network: "Hey! I just mined this block!", called in the bitcoin "spec"?
1840 2011-06-07 15:12:03 <lizthegrey> sixteen: it's a special case of getwork
1841 2011-06-07 15:12:05 <falafell> sixteen, i think it's just sent to other nodes, and the block is either valid or invalid
1842 2011-06-07 15:12:12 [DusT]1 has joined
1843 2011-06-07 15:12:16 [DusT] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1844 2011-06-07 15:12:21 <lizthegrey> wait, from the miner to the bitcoind, or bitcoind to rest of network?
1845 2011-06-07 15:12:36 ar4s has joined
1846 2011-06-07 15:12:40 <devon_hillard> something strange, catalyst control center no longer works, I didn't uninstall it or touched it in any way
1847 2011-06-07 15:12:47 <devon_hillard> clistart.exe doesn't do anything
1848 2011-06-07 15:12:55 <JFK911> stop mining
1849 2011-06-07 15:12:55 <sixteen> lizthegrey: latter
1850 2011-06-07 15:13:26 <devon_hillard> ah, mining stopped made it work again
1851 2011-06-07 15:13:34 <devon_hillard> strange because it used to work with the miner active
1852 2011-06-07 15:13:36 <user102> http://www.karachan.org/$/src/130739222619.png <- stealing money from bitcoin pools
1853 2011-06-07 15:14:19 <sixteen> falafell: Yes, that's what I'm asking.
1854 2011-06-07 15:14:28 <JFK911> user102: good luck making that work
1855 2011-06-07 15:14:31 <iz> sixteen: it basically says "hey, here's the block i found"
1856 2011-06-07 15:14:49 <JFK911> user102: you're about as smart as the noobs who tried that last year, without reading about why it won't work
1857 2011-06-07 15:14:56 <iz> you can't cheat it
1858 2011-06-07 15:14:56 <JFK911> congrats on wheel reinvention and your failure.
1859 2011-06-07 15:14:56 <user102> it's not me
1860 2011-06-07 15:15:21 <BlueMatt> JFK911: you can do the pool switching attack though
1861 2011-06-07 15:15:23 wistiu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1862 2011-06-07 15:15:25 <sixteen> iz: yeah, and what other information are transmitted?
1863 2011-06-07 15:15:32 <Doc_M> pool switching isn't an attack
1864 2011-06-07 15:15:37 <BlueMatt> sort of
1865 2011-06-07 15:15:41 <BlueMatt> you get more money
1866 2011-06-07 15:15:50 <gmaxwell> JFK911: hey, well, not returning it does hurt the pool though. Doesn't help youâ¦
1867 2011-06-07 15:15:57 <sixteen> iz: for example I presume that the found block is signed, right?
1868 2011-06-07 15:15:57 <iz> sixteen: the block it found.. the proof of work for it and the block header
1869 2011-06-07 15:16:35 <iz> sixteen: why would it need to be signed?
1870 2011-06-07 15:16:36 <JFK911> right
1871 2011-06-07 15:16:41 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: Normally I'd say it's an attack if it only gets you more money if everyone else doesn't also do it.
1872 2011-06-07 15:16:58 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: and since no one is doing it atm, it gets you more money
1873 2011-06-07 15:17:06 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: this has the somewhat paradoxical result that speeding up your sha256 kernel is 'an attack'.
1874 2011-06-07 15:17:18 zyb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1875 2011-06-07 15:17:33 johnnympereira5 has joined
1876 2011-06-07 15:17:35 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: oh people are doing it ATM, but yes I agree its an attack.
1877 2011-06-07 15:17:37 <BlueMatt> I wouldnt call that an attack as it benifits both you and everyone else
1878 2011-06-07 15:17:51 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: not once the difficulty changes! :)
1879 2011-06-07 15:18:04 <BlueMatt> well, not the majority it would require for it to lose value
1880 2011-06-07 15:18:09 <Doc_M> how does it benefit everyone gmax?
1881 2011-06-07 15:18:14 <sixteen> iz: how does the bitcoin network say "Oh right! That's indeed a valid block! It was found by X!"? How does it find out "X" if it's just the proof of work and the block header?
1882 2011-06-07 15:18:26 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: he was talking about my kernel speedup comment.
1883 2011-06-07 15:18:36 <Doc_M> part of the block header is the addy of the hasher
1884 2011-06-07 15:18:44 <gmaxwell> ...
1885 2011-06-07 15:18:45 <Doc_M> ah, got yah gm
1886 2011-06-07 15:18:52 <gmaxwell> sixteen: It doesn't.
1887 2011-06-07 15:19:11 <sixteen> [https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#Block_Headers we are talking about this block header, I suppose]
1888 2011-06-07 15:19:13 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: no it's not, part of the block body includes a txn to pay someone however.
1889 2011-06-07 15:19:30 <iz> sixteen: so there aren't actually any bitcoins.. it's all just transactions between accounts, stored in blocks.. when a block is "solved", it secures all the transactions in that block
1890 2011-06-07 15:19:45 <Doc_M> ok, what GM said is more accurate
1891 2011-06-07 15:19:46 <sixteen> oh and part of those transactions is the payment for the miner.
1892 2011-06-07 15:19:51 <Doc_M> however the block body is hashed
1893 2011-06-07 15:20:01 <gmaxwell> sixteen: Right.
1894 2011-06-07 15:20:01 <Doc_M> and that has is part of the block header
1895 2011-06-07 15:20:03 <iz> sixteen: and the p2p network has an agreement that anyone who solves a block is allowed to reward their account a 50 btc unbalanced transaction.. as a reward
1896 2011-06-07 15:20:09 <sixteen> Oh great, got it!
1897 2011-06-07 15:20:15 <Doc_M> am I correct?
1898 2011-06-07 15:20:15 <gmaxwell> user102: where did you find that screenshot?
1899 2011-06-07 15:20:32 <Doc_M> or is it just the merkle root thats hashed?
1900 2011-06-07 15:20:45 <sixteen> I was wondering what one could do if one could MITM the "Oh! Block found" message.
1901 2011-06-07 15:20:57 <sixteen> Seems like nothing.
1902 2011-06-07 15:21:01 <gmaxwell> Doc_M: the merkle root hashes the txn in the body. (it's arranged so you don't have to keep all the txn themselves)
1903 2011-06-07 15:21:02 <user102> gmaxwell: http://www.karachan.org/$/res/2967.html
1904 2011-06-07 15:21:11 <iz> sixteen: nope, because the transaction that pays out the solved block is inside that block
1905 2011-06-07 15:21:14 <gmaxwell> sixteen: Right. Nothing.
1906 2011-06-07 15:21:16 <sixteen> yeah
1907 2011-06-07 15:21:23 <iz> to mitm and change the account.. they would have to redo the proof of work
1908 2011-06-07 15:21:28 <sixteen> exactly
1909 2011-06-07 15:21:33 <sixteen> thank you guys, you've been most helpful!
1910 2011-06-07 15:21:47 <Doc_M> thats what I was trying to say iz
1911 2011-06-07 15:21:51 <Doc_M> badly
1912 2011-06-07 15:23:02 zyb has joined
1913 2011-06-07 15:23:52 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1914 2011-06-07 15:24:03 Lachesis has joined
1915 2011-06-07 15:26:54 DD- has quit ()
1916 2011-06-07 15:27:31 sixteen has left ()
1917 2011-06-07 15:29:06 edgarallanpoe has joined
1918 2011-06-07 15:29:33 DukeOfURL has joined
1919 2011-06-07 15:32:31 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1920 2011-06-07 15:33:54 paulYoung has joined
1921 2011-06-07 15:34:00 Diablo-D3 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1922 2011-06-07 15:37:07 germanMNY has joined
1923 2011-06-07 15:37:42 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
1924 2011-06-07 15:39:58 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1925 2011-06-07 15:40:45 glassresistor has joined
1926 2011-06-07 15:40:45 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
1927 2011-06-07 15:40:45 glassresistor has joined
1928 2011-06-07 15:41:08 srcr has joined
1929 2011-06-07 15:41:50 d1234 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1930 2011-06-07 15:45:14 glicth-mod has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1931 2011-06-07 15:46:15 ukcd has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
1932 2011-06-07 15:46:43 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1933 2011-06-07 15:47:32 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1934 2011-06-07 15:47:35 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1935 2011-06-07 15:48:40 srcr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1936 2011-06-07 15:50:34 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1937 2011-06-07 15:51:34 zyb has joined
1938 2011-06-07 15:51:51 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
1939 2011-06-07 15:52:16 sipa has joined
1940 2011-06-07 15:52:20 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1941 2011-06-07 15:53:17 bk128 has joined
1942 2011-06-07 15:55:54 zyb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1943 2011-06-07 16:00:51 Nicksasa has joined
1944 2011-06-07 16:01:13 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1945 2011-06-07 16:01:27 ahihi2 has quit ()
1946 2011-06-07 16:02:30 ahihi2 has joined
1947 2011-06-07 16:04:35 slush has joined
1948 2011-06-07 16:06:05 <gmaxwell> oh, usersâ¦
1949 2011-06-07 16:06:06 <gmaxwell> <Skaag> I'm generating coins at the moment
1950 2011-06-07 16:06:06 <gmaxwell> <Cube`> Skaag: what speed?
1951 2011-06-07 16:06:06 <gmaxwell> <Skaag> since I started running it, it generated 44500 blocks
1952 2011-06-07 16:07:32 gruez has joined
1953 2011-06-07 16:07:58 pRjck3vC has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1954 2011-06-07 16:09:18 devrandom1 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1955 2011-06-07 16:11:16 <sipa> gmaxwell: happens all the time
1956 2011-06-07 16:11:31 <sipa> one more reason why the gui option for generation had to go
1957 2011-06-07 16:12:04 jgarzik has joined
1958 2011-06-07 16:12:16 <jgarzik> morning all
1959 2011-06-07 16:12:28 <jgarzik> just checking in, prior to CBS live panel discussion on bitcoin
1960 2011-06-07 16:12:37 <jgarzik> are we still having IRC server problems?
1961 2011-06-07 16:13:13 jlewis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1962 2011-06-07 16:13:14 knotwork has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1963 2011-06-07 16:13:15 mikejs has quit (Write error: Broken pipe)
1964 2011-06-07 16:13:19 jlewis has joined
1965 2011-06-07 16:13:47 <BlueMatt> we were having irc server problems?
1966 2011-06-07 16:14:03 <BlueMatt> also, is there an internet live stream we can watch?
1967 2011-06-07 16:14:05 knotwork has joined
1968 2011-06-07 16:14:40 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: last night the IRC server was refusing connections, and gmaxwell thought Verizon might be blocking it
1969 2011-06-07 16:14:43 joepie95 has joined
1970 2011-06-07 16:14:45 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: is it up?
1971 2011-06-07 16:14:52 <sipa> jgarzik: just confirmed that v0.3.22 works with -nolisten -noirc -dnsseed, and empty addr.dat
1972 2011-06-07 16:14:57 mikejs has joined
1973 2011-06-07 16:15:00 <BlueMatt> it works for me
1974 2011-06-07 16:15:09 <jgarzik> but dunno where that link is
1975 2011-06-07 16:15:10 <jgarzik> there should be a live stream w/ CBS What's Trending
1976 2011-06-07 16:15:15 <BlueMatt> I just connected to lfnet
1977 2011-06-07 16:15:20 <jgarzik> sipa: thanks muchly
1978 2011-06-07 16:15:24 <sipa> as a matter of fact, i currently have 6 connections with it, online over a tethered edge connection in a train
1979 2011-06-07 16:15:32 <jgarzik> good
1980 2011-06-07 16:15:53 <jgarzik> when I went to bed, it was worrisome: IRC down, and it looked like ISPs were blocking it
1981 2011-06-07 16:15:55 pRjck3vC has joined
1982 2011-06-07 16:16:03 * jgarzik doesn't want bitcoin to be classified as malware
1983 2011-06-07 16:16:20 <BlueMatt> ouch, title looks very much into illegal stuff...oh well you can correct them :)
1984 2011-06-07 16:16:21 <lizthegrey> jgarzik: good luck :)
1985 2011-06-07 16:16:23 <BlueMatt> http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2n
1986 2011-06-07 16:16:28 <BlueMatt> stream appears to be working fine
1987 2011-06-07 16:16:40 <BlueMatt> http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-504943_162-1111.html?tag=watchnow
1988 2011-06-07 16:16:41 <Nicksasa> This is weird. I get this after rebooting my server
1989 2011-06-07 16:16:42 <Nicksasa> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DbException'
1990 2011-06-07 16:16:42 <BlueMatt> sorry that one
1991 2011-06-07 16:16:43 <Nicksasa> what(): Db::get: Cannot allocate memory
1992 2011-06-07 16:16:51 <Nicksasa> It's not the wallet file, removed it same thing
1993 2011-06-07 16:16:52 Phoebus has joined
1994 2011-06-07 16:17:58 joepie94 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1995 2011-06-07 16:18:20 <zooko> Haha, it says please upgrade my Adobe flash player. Oh well. Break a leg!
1996 2011-06-07 16:18:45 * BlueMatt has way to many streaming videos, flash cant handle it...
1997 2011-06-07 16:18:46 midnightmagic has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1998 2011-06-07 16:18:50 <BlueMatt> damn e3
1999 2011-06-07 16:18:52 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: there was a new 0.3.22 thread on the forum... did you see that? I think it's the same Windows problem. They are complaining of "problem communicating with RPC server" which is a poclbm error
2000 2011-06-07 16:19:05 joepie95 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2001 2011-06-07 16:19:11 <BlueMatt> probably
2002 2011-06-07 16:19:21 <BlueMatt> currently it doesnt respond, just freezes
2003 2011-06-07 16:19:24 <Nicksasa> does anyone know why i get that error atm ?
2004 2011-06-07 16:19:32 <BlueMatt> so Id assume its timing out and complaining
2005 2011-06-07 16:19:34 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: if you could respond on forum, that would be helpful
2006 2011-06-07 16:19:38 <BlueMatt> will do
2007 2011-06-07 16:19:52 <zooko> If you install flash and watch videos, Chinese privateers will exploit the bugs in flash and steal all your â.
2008 2011-06-07 16:19:56 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: trying to push back on perception that 0.3.22 is totally broken (answer: no, just for weirdos who mine on Windows :))
2009 2011-06-07 16:19:56 <zooko> Just say no.
2010 2011-06-07 16:20:26 <diki> bluematt:i was able to mine a block at current diff with 290 mhash/s
2011 2011-06-07 16:20:37 joepie97 has joined
2012 2011-06-07 16:20:38 <BlueMatt> diki: on windows?
2013 2011-06-07 16:20:40 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: "We" may not beâ the server at 92.243.23.21 is back up
2014 2011-06-07 16:20:41 <diki> yes
2015 2011-06-07 16:20:41 <BlueMatt> on 0.3.22?
2016 2011-06-07 16:20:44 <diki> no
2017 2011-06-07 16:20:48 <diki> 0.3.21
2018 2011-06-07 16:20:52 <BlueMatt> read next time then
2019 2011-06-07 16:20:56 <diki> info?
2020 2011-06-07 16:21:02 <gmaxwell> Verizon is still blocking all lfnet addresses for me and one other place on their network I was able to try.
2021 2011-06-07 16:21:25 <jgarzik> somebody should open a ticket
2022 2011-06-07 16:21:31 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: can you do that?
2023 2011-06-07 16:21:42 Incitatus has joined
2024 2011-06-07 16:21:44 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2025 2011-06-07 16:22:03 <diki> still, i did mine a block
2026 2011-06-07 16:22:21 <sipa> jgarzik: when is the discussion?
2027 2011-06-07 16:22:53 devrandom has joined
2028 2011-06-07 16:23:07 <jgarzik> sipa: which? discussion of IRC server dead-ness was last night, on this channel. discussion of bitcoin on CBS, a major news network, is coming up at 1pm EST (45 min).
2029 2011-06-07 16:23:23 <sipa> jgarzik: i meant that last one
2030 2011-06-07 16:23:29 <sipa> thanks, and good luck
2031 2011-06-07 16:23:43 <Nicksasa> nobody ?
2032 2011-06-07 16:23:59 <sipa> Nicksasa: tried deleting the database / files?
2033 2011-06-07 16:24:07 <Nicksasa> i only tried deleting the wallet
2034 2011-06-07 16:24:08 <jgarzik> I doubt it will be a 'hostile' audience, but the headline and story from this past Thursday are sensational (silk road / lulzsec garbage)
2035 2011-06-07 16:24:15 <sipa> the files in database/ i mean
2036 2011-06-07 16:24:36 <Nicksasa> i'll remove everything except the wallet and addr
2037 2011-06-07 16:25:01 <edcba> slush: what are you doing with your payouts transaction ? Validating them with your own pool or sending them to bitcoin network ?
2038 2011-06-07 16:25:04 <diki> why..why is it that when i need blocks
2039 2011-06-07 16:25:06 <diki> they come faster
2040 2011-06-07 16:25:20 <diki> when i dont want them to be mined, they come in like a bunch of...<insert word here>
2041 2011-06-07 16:25:24 <slush> edcba: I'm broadcasting them to the network
2042 2011-06-07 16:25:30 <slush> like any other transaction
2043 2011-06-07 16:25:42 <jgarzik> edcba: a strange question... all transactions are sent out to the network, otherwise you don't get paid
2044 2011-06-07 16:25:52 joepie98 has joined
2045 2011-06-07 16:25:54 <Nicksasa> sipa, after removing the filesi n the database, i get
2046 2011-06-07 16:25:55 <Nicksasa> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DbException'
2047 2011-06-07 16:25:55 <Nicksasa> what(): Db::open: Invalid argument
2048 2011-06-07 16:26:18 <sipa> jgarzik: well, it would be possible to not broadcast the transactions, but keep the; in his own memory pool for mining
2049 2011-06-07 16:26:20 <jgarzik> Nicksasa: did you build your own bitcoin, or is this an official build?
2050 2011-06-07 16:26:31 <Nicksasa> builded from the git source 2 days ago
2051 2011-06-07 16:26:33 <jgarzik> sipa: it still goes out on the network
2052 2011-06-07 16:26:39 <edcba> jgarzik: no he cound send unconfirmed transactions to network
2053 2011-06-07 16:26:40 <Nicksasa> but it worked fine untill i rebooted the server
2054 2011-06-07 16:27:02 <edcba> opposed to process them in the pool then release them
2055 2011-06-07 16:27:04 <jgarzik> Nicksasa: sounds like a problem with Db library versioning
2056 2011-06-07 16:27:11 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: last night ircd was not working on several of the lfnet servers (including the hardcoded address) and several ISPs were dropping all traffic to the lfnet IPs (but not one IP up or down) at the first hop.
2057 2011-06-07 16:27:16 * Graet wonders how many ppl getting "problem communicating with RPC server" live far from the pool they are on
2058 2011-06-07 16:27:22 <Nicksasa> i'll recompile it
2059 2011-06-07 16:27:33 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I speculated that the irc network got ddosed, but I never saw any confirmation of it.
2060 2011-06-07 16:27:33 <Graet> i used to get heaps but on locak pool 0
2061 2011-06-07 16:27:39 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: interesting, now that is something that needs sued over
2062 2011-06-07 16:27:47 <Graet> local*
2063 2011-06-07 16:28:03 <BlueMatt> blocking access to an irc net should be illegal
2064 2011-06-07 16:28:11 <edcba> i'm saying this because i see some payout in history and my client still doesn't see it after more than 8 confirmations :/
2065 2011-06-07 16:28:22 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: my thought toâ though less so if there was a DDOS attack and some helpful ddos preventer crap was too helpful.
2066 2011-06-07 16:28:31 <gmaxwell> s/to/too/
2067 2011-06-07 16:28:31 <BlueMatt> lol, maybe
2068 2011-06-07 16:29:00 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
2069 2011-06-07 16:29:00 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":19,"low":17.97,"vol":24821,"buy":18.94,"sell":18.98,"last":18.94}}
2070 2011-06-07 16:29:01 <BlueMatt> I suppose it is possible some ISPs are "optimizing" our bw to lfnet servers
2071 2011-06-07 16:29:10 <edcba> blockexplorer doesn't see it aswell
2072 2011-06-07 16:29:14 joepie97 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2073 2011-06-07 16:29:32 <gmaxwell> e.g. I don't think anyone thought "lets block bitcoin" I think it's probably more like IRCD went down (attack?) and the ISPs saw the repeated connections and it triggered some kind of automated attack response.
2074 2011-06-07 16:29:34 <Nicksasa> aha
2075 2011-06-07 16:29:35 <Nicksasa> __db_meta_setup: /root/.bitcoin/addr.dat: unexpected file type or format
2076 2011-06-07 16:29:41 <Nicksasa> in db.log
2077 2011-06-07 16:29:47 <BlueMatt> has anyone called verizon from a business account
2078 2011-06-07 16:29:57 <BlueMatt> to get on the phone with someone who actually knows something
2079 2011-06-07 16:30:09 <jgarzik> that's what I meant, by "open a ticket"
2080 2011-06-07 16:30:12 galaxyAbstractor has joined
2081 2011-06-07 16:30:17 <galaxyAbstractor> yo
2082 2011-06-07 16:30:17 <jgarzik> Verizon customers can open tickets
2083 2011-06-07 16:30:27 <BlueMatt> does anyone have a verizon account on right now?
2084 2011-06-07 16:30:49 <BlueMatt> [DusT]1: ping
2085 2011-06-07 16:30:51 <Nicksasa> weird it thinks all the files are corrupted, now it's blkindex
2086 2011-06-07 16:30:51 <galaxyAbstractor> Do you use HTTP POST when accessing the JSON-RPC API?
2087 2011-06-07 16:30:55 <BlueMatt> GarrettB: ping
2088 2011-06-07 16:31:07 <jgarzik> Nicksasa: what db versions have you been using?
2089 2011-06-07 16:31:21 <jgarzik> galaxyAbstractor: yes
2090 2011-06-07 16:31:27 <Nicksasa> not sure, but i didn't update anything
2091 2011-06-07 16:31:37 <Nicksasa> anyways the wallet is still ok it seems
2092 2011-06-07 16:31:40 <gmaxwell> I'm trying to validate that it's still more people than me.
2093 2011-06-07 16:31:46 <jgarzik> Nicksasa: it's behaving as if you transported db files between versions
2094 2011-06-07 16:31:47 <diki> oh come on...i need just three blocks
2095 2011-06-07 16:32:01 <galaxyAbstractor> jgarzik: ty
2096 2011-06-07 16:32:09 <Nicksasa> hmm getbalance says 0, but it's redownloading the blockchain
2097 2011-06-07 16:32:13 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2098 2011-06-07 16:32:18 <gmaxwell> (It's also hard for me to call verizonâ I don't have a verizon phone number and this fries their little brains)
2099 2011-06-07 16:32:27 <jgarzik> Nicksasa: ya, it will say that until chain is downloaded
2100 2011-06-07 16:32:33 <Nicksasa> hmm it's not updating
2101 2011-06-07 16:32:37 <Nicksasa> getblockcount stays at 0
2102 2011-06-07 16:32:37 BlueMatt has joined
2103 2011-06-07 16:33:36 weinerk has left ("Killed buffer")
2104 2011-06-07 16:33:46 zooko has quit (Quit: zzz...)
2105 2011-06-07 16:34:15 <jgarzik> Nicksasa: http://bitcoin.bluematt.me/bitcoin-nightly
2106 2011-06-07 16:34:19 germanMNY has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2107 2011-06-07 16:34:39 <jgarzik> Nicksasa: you may download the block chain more quickly from there
2108 2011-06-07 16:34:45 djoot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2109 2011-06-07 16:35:07 <Nicksasa> thanks
2110 2011-06-07 16:35:37 djoot has joined
2111 2011-06-07 16:35:37 djoot has quit (Changing host)
2112 2011-06-07 16:35:37 djoot has joined
2113 2011-06-07 16:39:00 BlueMattBot has joined
2114 2011-06-07 16:39:42 <Doc_M> put a timer on the clients so it doesn't happen again?
2115 2011-06-07 16:40:01 <Doc_M> so it has a pause between reconnect attempts
2116 2011-06-07 16:40:45 <gmaxwell> okay, I've confirmed that the vzn blocking of lfnet is not just me.
2117 2011-06-07 16:42:15 midnightmagic has joined
2118 2011-06-07 16:42:37 <Doc_M> botnets often use irc to connect to each other and get their instructions? maybe we fell afoul something looking for botnets?
2119 2011-06-07 16:43:06 <galaxyAbstractor> so the JSON I should send over POST should looks something like: "{method: "getinfo", params: "", id: "jsonrpc"}" right?
2120 2011-06-07 16:43:44 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: sucks, time to call
2121 2011-06-07 16:43:49 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
2122 2011-06-07 16:44:04 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: working on it
2123 2011-06-07 16:44:10 edgarallanpoe has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2124 2011-06-07 16:44:24 <midnightmagic> time to call?
2125 2011-06-07 16:44:43 <gmaxwell> Other ISPs might be doing the same thing (common network-non-neutrality appliance?) e.g. doublec (who is in NZ) saw similar behavior.
2126 2011-06-07 16:44:51 <diki> i dont understand though...how does pushpool loop through to capture every incomming connection?
2127 2011-06-07 16:45:04 <diki> there is only one function called main_loop
2128 2011-06-07 16:45:19 <diki> but it doesnt have any functions that do what pushpool does
2129 2011-06-07 16:45:30 jgarzik has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2130 2011-06-07 16:45:30 gruez has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2131 2011-06-07 16:46:02 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2132 2011-06-07 16:46:03 <edcba> ok i see what happens
2133 2011-06-07 16:46:20 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: this is RE: verizon blocking lfnet.
2134 2011-06-07 16:46:38 <edcba> slush bitcoin client must be storing those tx during a long time before releasing it i guess
2135 2011-06-07 16:47:23 amiller_ has joined
2136 2011-06-07 16:47:27 <midnightmagic> is it?! wow brutal!
2137 2011-06-07 16:47:49 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: Might be some overactive anti-ddos crap.
2138 2011-06-07 16:47:50 germanMNY has joined
2139 2011-06-07 16:47:54 <midnightmagic> is that what all the hustle and bustle was the last few days?
2140 2011-06-07 16:48:09 Speeder has joined
2141 2011-06-07 16:48:27 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: they only started doing this last night. I'm not surewhat time. (though if debug log had timestamps I could probably tell you)
2142 2011-06-07 16:48:29 <lizthegrey> btw, direct link to the show stuff - looks like http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-504943_162-1111.html?tag=watchnow
2143 2011-06-07 16:48:42 <midnightmagic> wow, f;ing brutal.
2144 2011-06-07 16:49:14 <edcba> blocking lfnet really ?
2145 2011-06-07 16:49:14 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: at least one non vzn person (doublec) reported the same thing, so it might be happening more broadly.
2146 2011-06-07 16:49:28 Eleuthria has joined
2147 2011-06-07 16:49:37 <edcba> what happens when you SYN lfnet ?
2148 2011-06-07 16:49:40 mosimo has joined
2149 2011-06-07 16:49:43 <fizario> isps are doing MITM attacks? uhoh.. time to add TLS to peer communication
2150 2011-06-07 16:49:47 fckStick has joined
2151 2011-06-07 16:49:47 <edcba> has lfnet multiple servers ?
2152 2011-06-07 16:50:12 nefario has joined
2153 2011-06-07 16:50:12 <gmaxwell> edcba: nothing. All traffic to any of the four lfnet ips dies at the first hop. Go one ip up/do and it's fine (so not a basic routing issue)
2154 2011-06-07 16:50:42 <gmaxwell> fizario: they aren't doinga mitm anything, the traffic is probably being dropped.
2155 2011-06-07 16:50:50 <edcba> at first hop ?
2156 2011-06-07 16:50:50 eoss has joined
2157 2011-06-07 16:50:57 <edcba> you used mtr ?
2158 2011-06-07 16:51:17 <fizario> isps could easily do mitm's between nodes
2159 2011-06-07 16:51:44 <gmaxwell> Some idiot (meat based or silicon based idiot) probably thought it was a botnet. (wellâ ircserver with nothing but robots in it, connecting to lots of things)
2160 2011-06-07 16:51:56 <gmaxwell> fizario: sure, which wouldn't buy them anything.
2161 2011-06-07 16:52:32 <gmaxwell> edcba: icmp, udp, and tcp syn based traceroutes all have the same behavior: no response, no ttl expired in transit if I set the ttl low.
2162 2011-06-07 16:52:34 <edcba> i really think isps should worry about worms etc
2163 2011-06-07 16:52:39 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2164 2011-06-07 16:52:46 <fizario> it would buy them lots of things.. ddos a competitor, double-spending, chain forking. its a centralized sybil attack
2165 2011-06-07 16:52:50 <gmaxwell> woah.
2166 2011-06-07 16:52:56 <gmaxwell> just started working!
2167 2011-06-07 16:53:08 devrandom has joined
2168 2011-06-07 16:53:11 <edcba> i really think isps should *not* worry about worms...
2169 2011-06-07 16:53:46 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2170 2011-06-07 16:54:18 <gmaxwell> Dunno if something I did (I went and nagged some people I know...) triggered it or what.
2171 2011-06-07 16:54:44 <galaxyAbstractor> anyone been succeful to use the JSON-RPC API from javascript, using something like jQuery or something you written yuorself?
2172 2011-06-07 16:54:55 <Nicksasa> well i downloaded that nightly blockchain, my balance shows up again but it's still not updating the blockchain
2173 2011-06-07 16:55:33 zygf has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2174 2011-06-07 16:55:34 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2175 2011-06-07 16:56:27 <gmaxwell> sweet. okay I'm back in #bitcoin33-55
2176 2011-06-07 16:56:55 Blitzboom_ has joined
2177 2011-06-07 16:57:14 BlueMatt has joined
2178 2011-06-07 16:57:41 gavinandresen has joined
2179 2011-06-07 16:57:53 Eleuthria has left ()
2180 2011-06-07 16:58:25 gsathya has quit (Quit: gsathya)
2181 2011-06-07 16:58:37 <lizthegrey> also http://www.ustream.tv/whatstrending it looks
2182 2011-06-07 16:59:10 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2183 2011-06-07 16:59:28 kermit has joined
2184 2011-06-07 17:00:20 MBS has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2185 2011-06-07 17:00:27 gsathya has joined
2186 2011-06-07 17:00:41 <Nicksasa> hmmm
2187 2011-06-07 17:00:42 <Nicksasa> ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 9a9b256786 mapTransactions prev not found 7c47df37e2
2188 2011-06-07 17:00:42 <Nicksasa> ERROR: AcceptToMemoryPool() : ConnectInputs failed 9a9b256786
2189 2011-06-07 17:02:09 Taveren93HGK has joined
2190 2011-06-07 17:02:20 <edcba> the best rebuttal to bitcoin so far imo : http://tav.espians.com/why-bitcoin-will-fail-as-a-currency.html
2191 2011-06-07 17:02:32 <edcba> ie hoarding etc
2192 2011-06-07 17:02:33 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
2193 2011-06-07 17:02:42 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
2194 2011-06-07 17:02:42 Blitzboom has joined
2195 2011-06-07 17:02:54 <BlueMatt> easily fixable-get more merchants ie make bitcoin more liquid
2196 2011-06-07 17:02:56 <phantomcircuit> Nicksasa, that's fairly common
2197 2011-06-07 17:02:57 MBS has joined
2198 2011-06-07 17:03:00 zooko has joined
2199 2011-06-07 17:03:05 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: honestly, i'm surprised that's the first time that's happened
2200 2011-06-07 17:03:39 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: it might not be.
2201 2011-06-07 17:04:06 <jrmithdobbs> lesson learned: irc seeding bad ;P
2202 2011-06-07 17:04:11 Lachesis has joined
2203 2011-06-07 17:04:16 <BlueMatt> yep, to dnsseed we go :)
2204 2011-06-07 17:04:33 <phantomcircuit> what program is that?
2205 2011-06-07 17:04:33 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
2206 2011-06-07 17:04:34 <phantomcircuit> bitcoin.currentTotal()
2207 2011-06-07 17:04:38 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: you have your code that creates a valid dns seed without non-listening hosts up anywhere?
2208 2011-06-07 17:04:52 <edcba> phantomcircuit: dunno maybe he wrote one
2209 2011-06-07 17:05:05 <midnightmagic> edcba: that's the most uninformative, poorly-reasoned article I think I've ever read.
2210 2011-06-07 17:05:10 d17v1Nmz has joined
2211 2011-06-07 17:05:54 <edcba> maybe but it doesn't tell anything wrong :)
2212 2011-06-07 17:05:55 <gmaxwell> edcba: Did gold suffer major hording problems when gold and gold back currencies were widely used?
2213 2011-06-07 17:06:13 Speeder has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2214 2011-06-07 17:06:18 <midnightmagic> edcba: yes it does. the whole conclusion is wrong!
2215 2011-06-07 17:06:21 <edcba> because gold is maybe in "infinite" supply
2216 2011-06-07 17:06:29 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: yes, its on github...or you could go the way of more traditional bootstrapping and put well-known nodes in static dns
2217 2011-06-07 17:06:34 <BlueMatt> either way its 100x better than irc
2218 2011-06-07 17:06:36 <edcba> ie you don't know how much gold there is
2219 2011-06-07 17:06:36 <midnightmagic> edcba: it is NOT
2220 2011-06-07 17:06:42 <Taveren93HGK> gold is not in infitinite supply
2221 2011-06-07 17:06:46 <gmaxwell> edcba: gold's supply has mostly looked like bitcoin though, geometric decline.
2222 2011-06-07 17:06:57 pRjck3vC has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2223 2011-06-07 17:07:09 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i'll look for it later and see about hooking it into my dnssec stuff
2224 2011-06-07 17:07:16 <jrmithdobbs> dnssec signed dnsseed is the way of the future!
2225 2011-06-07 17:07:29 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: its pretty simple and generic code, shouldnt be hard to do
2226 2011-06-07 17:07:41 <BlueMatt> it currently drops in a powerdns bd, but you could change that pretty easily
2227 2011-06-07 17:07:50 <BlueMatt> s/bd/db/
2228 2011-06-07 17:07:52 <jrmithdobbs> (should just need to add setup a dynamic zone and have your code use nsupdate instead of generating a zone or w/e you're doing)
2229 2011-06-07 17:08:08 <BlueMatt> you could do that too
2230 2011-06-07 17:08:32 <phantomcircuit> edcba, that guys entire argument amounts to "it's deflationary, therefore it will fail"
2231 2011-06-07 17:08:57 <gmaxwell> dnsseed should probably have more than two authorities.
2232 2011-06-07 17:08:58 <lizthegrey> groan, 'buying drugs with digital currency'
2233 2011-06-07 17:09:11 <jrmithdobbs> edcba: that article is stupid and i stopped reading at this line:
2234 2011-06-07 17:09:12 <jrmithdobbs> Scammers manipulating the market with trades so as to make a quick buck from greater fools before it all comes crashing down.
2235 2011-06-07 17:09:24 <jrmithdobbs> edcba: anyone who calls that scamming can be safely ignored.
2236 2011-06-07 17:09:46 wolfspraul has joined
2237 2011-06-07 17:09:51 <edcba> ok it's just speculating
2238 2011-06-07 17:10:13 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: people who insist that bitcoin is going to be worth $million before selling you some might be scamming you though, but thats a different behavior.
2239 2011-06-07 17:10:14 <edcba> anyway we'll see
2240 2011-06-07 17:10:32 maikmerten has joined
2241 2011-06-07 17:11:21 <lizthegrey> obviously enough people don't buy the "going to be worth $million" or else they wouldn't be selling.
2242 2011-06-07 17:11:28 <edcba> ok is there some cheap hosting accepting bitcoins at current valuation ?
2243 2011-06-07 17:11:49 <gmaxwell> lizthegrey: that was half my pointâ anyone who tells you that and sells to you is probably lying about their confidence.
2244 2011-06-07 17:11:59 <edcba> lizthegrey: i hope they will always think that :)
2245 2011-06-07 17:12:56 <edcba> we still far from having 1btc = $1M anyway
2246 2011-06-07 17:12:58 <BlueMatt> whats trending stuff is talking about bitcoin now :)
2247 2011-06-07 17:13:00 <fizario> the value of bitcoin could be cut in half if a clone pops up with the same features
2248 2011-06-07 17:13:03 <Graet> edcba seen 2 guys in otc offering, but lost thier links
2249 2011-06-07 17:13:06 <BlueMatt> well starting to talk about lulzsec
2250 2011-06-07 17:13:35 <edcba> yes lulzsec news make me aware of current valuation lol
2251 2011-06-07 17:13:55 <edcba> i saw their twitter about bitcoin worting 17 USD
2252 2011-06-07 17:13:57 <jrmithdobbs> so
2253 2011-06-07 17:13:59 <edcba> makes me wtf
2254 2011-06-07 17:14:00 bk128 has joined
2255 2011-06-07 17:14:07 <jrmithdobbs> i'm trying to write a test case of sorts
2256 2011-06-07 17:14:26 <edcba> test case for ?
2257 2011-06-07 17:14:36 <jrmithdobbs> I'm linking against a broken openssl that I've intenionally normalized the prng so that it will spit out known-values
2258 2011-06-07 17:14:44 <jrmithdobbs> edcba: wallet code testing
2259 2011-06-07 17:15:32 <jrmithdobbs> and I'm trying to implement a separate function to generate the keys, but what my function spits out vs what bitcoin spits out is completely different
2260 2011-06-07 17:15:50 <jrmithdobbs> key.h is where the keys are generated right?
2261 2011-06-07 17:16:20 <sipa> yes
2262 2011-06-07 17:16:49 Doc_M has left ()
2263 2011-06-07 17:17:41 IncitatusOnWater has joined
2264 2011-06-07 17:17:43 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: oh good was hoping you were around
2265 2011-06-07 17:18:24 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: what I'm doing is EC_KEY_new_by_curve_name(NID_secp256k1); then EC_KEY_get0_private_key(key); then base58 encoding the bignum that returns
2266 2011-06-07 17:18:26 <Nicksasa> bitcoind doesn't go above this
2267 2011-06-07 17:18:41 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: but it doesn't match what your dumpwallet/privkey patch spits out
2268 2011-06-07 17:18:43 <Nicksasa> "blocks" : 129126,
2269 2011-06-07 17:18:43 <Nicksasa> "connections" : 2,
2270 2011-06-07 17:18:49 HEx1 has joined
2271 2011-06-07 17:18:54 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: thoughts?
2272 2011-06-07 17:19:00 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: am I skipping something?
2273 2011-06-07 17:19:24 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: i also add a version number and checksum
2274 2011-06-07 17:19:30 johnnympereira5 has joined
2275 2011-06-07 17:19:59 <jrmithdobbs> right the version string you're using is 5 where's the checksum code you're using? That's probably what I'm missing
2276 2011-06-07 17:20:40 <gmaxwell> Nicksasa: the netwok is at 129231 now
2277 2011-06-07 17:20:41 <Nicksasa> ah i found the bug
2278 2011-06-07 17:20:49 <Nicksasa> my date/time is not correct after the restart
2279 2011-06-07 17:20:51 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: no, that's the result of base58
2280 2011-06-07 17:20:57 <Nicksasa> ...
2281 2011-06-07 17:21:02 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2282 2011-06-07 17:21:19 <sipa> it's byte 128 + private key + checksym
2283 2011-06-07 17:21:45 <jrmithdobbs> then base58 the whole thing?
2284 2011-06-07 17:21:58 <sipa> the checksum is calculated the same way as addresses
2285 2011-06-07 17:22:27 <jrmithdobbs> and when you say + you mean concat not actually addition right? ;P
2286 2011-06-07 17:22:35 <sipa> yes
2287 2011-06-07 17:22:48 <sipa> it's really exactly the same way as addresses
2288 2011-06-07 17:23:27 <BlueMatt> bitcoin is on that cbs thing: http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-504943_162-1111.html?tag=watchnow
2289 2011-06-07 17:23:55 <gmaxwell> Someone should write up a transcript.
2290 2011-06-07 17:25:21 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2291 2011-06-07 17:25:40 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: ya i haven't looked at the address generation code, where is that in key.h?
2292 2011-06-07 17:26:15 Nicksasa has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg)
2293 2011-06-07 17:26:35 DrewSJ has joined
2294 2011-06-07 17:26:39 chmod755 has joined
2295 2011-06-07 17:26:47 <jrmithdobbs> oh, it's not in key.h, that's why I hadn't noticed it, haha
2296 2011-06-07 17:27:14 <jrmithdobbs> I had to pause that cbs thing because that woman that is asking jeff questions is retarded
2297 2011-06-07 17:29:44 <gmaxwell> doublec: when you wake up, it would be interesting to know if you can reach lfnet now.
2298 2011-06-07 17:30:42 stuhood has joined
2299 2011-06-07 17:31:50 <lizthegrey> well, that was interesting.
2300 2011-06-07 17:31:55 <sipa> indeed
2301 2011-06-07 17:32:13 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: so I need to be looking at Hash160, and Hash160ToAddress? am I missing anything?
2302 2011-06-07 17:32:17 stuhood has left ()
2303 2011-06-07 17:32:28 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: look at base58.h
2304 2011-06-07 17:32:37 <sipa> the code for both address and private key convertion is there
2305 2011-06-07 17:33:20 Phoebus has joined
2306 2011-06-07 17:35:06 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: where do those std::vector<unsigned char>& inputs originate from I guess is what's tripping me up?
2307 2011-06-07 17:35:22 <sipa> the caller?
2308 2011-06-07 17:35:38 <sipa> it's a way of returning data
2309 2011-06-07 17:36:12 jgarzik has joined
2310 2011-06-07 17:36:15 <jrmithdobbs> well yes, but I mean how are those formatted, they're not just bignum unsigned char arrays because there's special conversion going on to make them such
2311 2011-06-07 17:36:23 darbsllim has joined
2312 2011-06-07 17:36:26 pusle has joined
2313 2011-06-07 17:36:28 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
2314 2011-06-07 17:36:28 jgarzik has joined
2315 2011-06-07 17:36:35 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well done
2316 2011-06-07 17:36:43 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2317 2011-06-07 17:36:53 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: not bad considering some of the dumb questions
2318 2011-06-07 17:36:56 <jgarzik> was I a stupid fuck? how bad was it? :)
2319 2011-06-07 17:36:58 Speeder has joined
2320 2011-06-07 17:37:06 <BlueMatt> you made her look stupid, as you should have :)
2321 2011-06-07 17:37:06 <jrmithdobbs> i wanted to punch that lady
2322 2011-06-07 17:37:11 <jrmithdobbs> yes
2323 2011-06-07 17:37:21 <jgarzik> I couldn't see anything. just hear the various voices.
2324 2011-06-07 17:37:32 <BlueMatt> lol
2325 2011-06-07 17:37:52 <jgarzik> is there a link to download video?
2326 2011-06-07 17:38:04 * jgarzik had to use a fscking Windows laptop for the interview
2327 2011-06-07 17:38:12 Blitzboom_ has joined
2328 2011-06-07 17:38:20 <BlueMatt> not yet afaik
2329 2011-06-07 17:38:34 <lizthegrey> jgarzik: I probably would have explained 'why is bitcoin secure' slightly differently, but that's honestly a nitpick
2330 2011-06-07 17:38:52 <lizthegrey> I mean, given the hostility of the questions, you did well, and you managed to deflect the silk road stuff very well
2331 2011-06-07 17:38:54 <jgarzik> pace was really fast, all my prepared answers went out the brain :(
2332 2011-06-07 17:39:22 <jgarzik> lizthegrey: how would you have explained it? (tone: curious, not hostile...)
2333 2011-06-07 17:39:22 <BlueMatt> meh they always do
2334 2011-06-07 17:39:31 <jrmithdobbs> ya you def deflected the LOL DRUGS part really well
2335 2011-06-07 17:39:36 gwelymernan has joined
2336 2011-06-07 17:39:43 <lizthegrey> jgarzik: my explanation is:
2337 2011-06-07 17:39:44 <BlueMatt> tone: curious, knowledge: terrible hence questions: very poorly worded
2338 2011-06-07 17:39:45 <jrmithdobbs> and good job not laughing when an actual news org asked about lulzsec
2339 2011-06-07 17:39:50 <jrmithdobbs> I don't think i could have
2340 2011-06-07 17:40:08 <jgarzik> heh
2341 2011-06-07 17:40:18 <gmaxwell> Anyone have a saved file of it yet?
2342 2011-06-07 17:40:19 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2343 2011-06-07 17:40:32 <BlueMatt> I should have been recording...:(
2344 2011-06-07 17:40:45 <gmaxwell> (I'm wasn't going to crap up my browser with flash just to watch itâ but I do want to see it)
2345 2011-06-07 17:40:47 <lizthegrey> bitcoin is secure because anyone can examine the source code, and the transaction log is verified by a large amount of people doing computation; you'd need more compute power than the existing compute power to do bad things.
2346 2011-06-07 17:40:57 <lizthegrey> I guess, the source code should have come first
2347 2011-06-07 17:41:10 <lizthegrey> and there should have been an explanation of 'the more compute power, the more secure, and you'd have to overtake the honest nodes to win'
2348 2011-06-07 17:41:16 <Taveren93HGK> gmaxwell - are we talking about the cbs coverage?
2349 2011-06-07 17:41:22 <lizthegrey> focusing immediately on amount of compute power without any context is disorienting
2350 2011-06-07 17:41:59 agent-x has joined
2351 2011-06-07 17:42:01 <lizthegrey> the transaction ledger stuff, a++ though :)
2352 2011-06-07 17:42:44 paulYoung has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2353 2011-06-07 17:42:57 <lizthegrey> my standard explanation of bitcoin says that it's three parts: 1.) a set of network communications that act like the postal system, 2.) a set of security nodes that do computation to verify and secure the network, and 3.) clients who issue digital signatures to write checks to other people and send them across the network
2354 2011-06-07 17:43:22 <jgarzik> talk of nodes tends to confuse people
2355 2011-06-07 17:43:43 <lizthegrey> because there's an immediate analogy for each thing - network == postal system, security nodes == people who make sure nobody is counterfeiting or forging, and people getting out their checkbooks is pretty obvious
2356 2011-06-07 17:43:47 <jgarzik> it's tough to narrow bitcoin security down into soundbites :)
2357 2011-06-07 17:44:04 <lizthegrey> *nod*
2358 2011-06-07 17:44:13 <BlueMatt> very true...
2359 2011-06-07 17:45:04 <gmaxwell> Taveren93HGK: yes
2360 2011-06-07 17:45:26 <OneFixt> have you guys seen the poll on that CBS site?
2361 2011-06-07 17:45:31 bk128 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2362 2011-06-07 17:45:53 <OneFixt> "No, if the Internet can be used for nefarious purposes or exploited, access should be removed"
2363 2011-06-07 17:45:53 <OneFixt> is actually a choice
2364 2011-06-07 17:46:19 d4de has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2365 2011-06-07 17:46:54 <jgarzik> OneFixt: that's journalists for ya :)
2366 2011-06-07 17:47:57 devrandom has joined
2367 2011-06-07 17:49:37 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2368 2011-06-07 17:50:18 Breign has joined
2369 2011-06-07 17:50:27 <OneFixt> jgarzik: i missed the interview unfortunately, is it going to be up somewhere later?
2370 2011-06-07 17:50:28 <devrandom> jgarzik: well spoken
2371 2011-06-07 17:50:43 Nicksasa has joined
2372 2011-06-07 17:50:46 <jgarzik> OneFixt: no idea. just asked CBS that question...
2373 2011-06-07 17:50:54 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-69-208-131-203.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net|Netsniper
2374 2011-06-07 17:50:54 <OneFixt> thanks for asking
2375 2011-06-07 17:51:09 lumos has joined
2376 2011-06-07 17:51:28 <devrandom> I think that went a long way to defuse knee jerk reactions
2377 2011-06-07 17:51:47 chmod755 has left ("Leaving.")
2378 2011-06-07 17:52:23 <jgarzik> devrandom: I can only hope
2379 2011-06-07 17:52:50 <BlueMatt> hopefully, we need more interviews like that
2380 2011-06-07 17:53:01 <BlueMatt> 5 minutes of, no you are wrong, misinformed and stupid
2381 2011-06-07 17:53:05 <jgarzik> hehehe
2382 2011-06-07 17:53:07 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
2383 2011-06-07 17:53:31 <gmaxwell> damnit, I really want to see it now.
2384 2011-06-07 17:57:13 stuhood has joined
2385 2011-06-07 17:57:59 galaxyAbstractor has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chatta smidigt. Ãverallt.")
2386 2011-06-07 17:58:01 stuhood has left ()
2387 2011-06-07 17:59:01 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2388 2011-06-07 17:59:16 <jgarzik> CBS: "We'll have segments up today- will send you link"
2389 2011-06-07 17:59:21 <jgarzik> full, unedited segments?
2390 2011-06-07 17:59:29 <jgarzik> :)
2391 2011-06-07 17:59:35 MasterChief has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2392 2011-06-07 18:00:16 erle- has joined
2393 2011-06-07 18:00:16 johnnympereira5 has joined
2394 2011-06-07 18:00:27 <erle-> how come that key generation is so fast in the original client?
2395 2011-06-07 18:00:35 <erle-> gpg takes minutes to generate keys
2396 2011-06-07 18:00:39 <erle-> are they generated well? or debian-like?
2397 2011-06-07 18:01:02 <jgarzik> erle-: are you talking about bitcoin keys? bitcoin and gpg keys are two totally different things.
2398 2011-06-07 18:01:10 peck has joined
2399 2011-06-07 18:01:16 <erle-> i know, bitcoin keys are ECDSA, right?
2400 2011-06-07 18:01:32 TD has joined
2401 2011-06-07 18:01:38 <erle-> but i was still wondering about the huge difference
2402 2011-06-07 18:03:25 agent-x has left ()
2403 2011-06-07 18:03:25 <erle-> i guess it just uses whatever openssl offers
2404 2011-06-07 18:03:50 sgornick has joined
2405 2011-06-07 18:04:56 jackmcbarn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2406 2011-06-07 18:06:26 <erle-> when will bitcoin be autotools-ready?
2407 2011-06-07 18:06:30 d1234 has joined
2408 2011-06-07 18:06:33 <erle-> i read something like that in the forums
2409 2011-06-07 18:07:15 <gmaxwell> erle-: gcc keys are much faster to generate than rsa ones.
2410 2011-06-07 18:07:23 <gmaxwell> hah
2411 2011-06-07 18:07:23 <gmaxwell> ecc
2412 2011-06-07 18:07:31 <gmaxwell> compilers on the brain
2413 2011-06-07 18:07:59 <erle-> rsa sucks anyway, i always liked el-gamal/diffie/dsa more
2414 2011-06-07 18:09:58 nefario has left ()
2415 2011-06-07 18:10:38 ahbritto has joined
2416 2011-06-07 18:11:26 <erle-> don't you consider ECDSA a little less reviewed than regular DSA?
2417 2011-06-07 18:11:36 d1234 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2418 2011-06-07 18:11:39 <erle-> maybe a little dangerous for a long-term project
2419 2011-06-07 18:12:15 <lizthegrey> the scheme is changeable if people see the need though, and anyone with enough coins to care can switch to the more secure variant I'd assume
2420 2011-06-07 18:12:29 larsivi has joined
2421 2011-06-07 18:12:47 <lizthegrey> kind of how gpg has pluggable ElG vs. RSA and choice of key length I'd assume.
2422 2011-06-07 18:12:53 <jrmithdobbs> lizthegrey: scheme change requires all clients involved in the txn to be running code that understands the scheme though
2423 2011-06-07 18:13:12 <jrmithdobbs> but yes
2424 2011-06-07 18:13:34 <erle-> of course it can be changed in principle
2425 2011-06-07 18:13:40 <erle-> but in principle anything can be changed
2426 2011-06-07 18:14:08 <erle-> how can you say "we can fix broken crypto easily" in one breath with "nobody can change the total coin limit"?
2427 2011-06-07 18:14:17 robin has joined
2428 2011-06-07 18:14:43 <erle-> it both takes the majority of peers to agree, no more no less
2429 2011-06-07 18:15:03 <TD> ECDSA isn't really under-reviewed
2430 2011-06-07 18:15:07 <jrmithdobbs> actually no to change the crypto scheme for sending/claiming coins doesn't require the majority of peers
2431 2011-06-07 18:15:17 <TD> elliptic curve cryptography has been studied in the literature since
2432 2011-06-07 18:15:21 <TD> sorry, since the 80s
2433 2011-06-07 18:15:22 <jrmithdobbs> just the peers involved in the txn
2434 2011-06-07 18:15:38 <erle-> TD, yes, its not underreviewed, but regular DSA is much more reviewed
2435 2011-06-07 18:15:41 <TD> it's implemented in openssl, academics have studied timing attacks against it
2436 2011-06-07 18:15:42 <jrmithdobbs> and the majority of miners
2437 2011-06-07 18:15:46 <TD> yes. ecdsa is used for efficiencies sake
2438 2011-06-07 18:15:48 <erle-> the number theory is reviewed for centuries
2439 2011-06-07 18:16:05 <erle-> discrete logarithm is a open problem for centuries
2440 2011-06-07 18:16:16 <erle-> i like ECDSA
2441 2011-06-07 18:16:17 <TD> satoshi felt bitcoin wasn't feasible with other signature schemes as the sigs are much larger
2442 2011-06-07 18:16:18 <jrmithdobbs> erle-: bitcoin would be infeasible with dsa due to size alone
2443 2011-06-07 18:16:40 <erle-> i just thought that bitcoin is such long-term
2444 2011-06-07 18:17:00 <erle-> i run my SSH with ECC too since it is supported
2445 2011-06-07 18:17:06 <erle-> but i can change it at any moment
2446 2011-06-07 18:17:22 <jrmithdobbs> actually, no, it doesn't require the miners
2447 2011-06-07 18:17:29 <erle-> jrmithdobbs, but most of the properties would be fixed public values anyway
2448 2011-06-07 18:17:43 <erle-> jrmithdobbs, like the curve is fixed, the prime number could be fixed
2449 2011-06-07 18:18:14 <jrmithdobbs> erle-: you're talking turning a ~200byte script string into ~4-16K bytes for ever txn
2450 2011-06-07 18:18:19 <jrmithdobbs> to switch to dsa
2451 2011-06-07 18:18:20 <erle-> only the unknown exponent is private, and the hash is 160 bits anyway
2452 2011-06-07 18:19:03 <lizthegrey> jrmithdobbs: if people want to do that, pay the extra tx fees for large tx sizes and miners support it, why not?
2453 2011-06-07 18:19:06 <jrmithdobbs> and that's just taking isStandard txns into account
2454 2011-06-07 18:19:06 <TD> bitcoin has bigger question marks over its head than ECDSA
2455 2011-06-07 18:19:11 <TD> it doesn't worry me, relatively speaking
2456 2011-06-07 18:19:15 <jrmithdobbs> lizthegrey: ya there's nothing stopping them
2457 2011-06-07 18:19:28 <jgarzik> 545116333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333....
2458 2011-06-07 18:19:36 <lizthegrey> I guess, ecdsa is good enough for now for default security. it's like 1024 bit keys vs. 4096 bit keys
2459 2011-06-07 18:19:37 <erle-> it does not worry me either, i am just interested
2460 2011-06-07 18:19:38 <jrmithdobbs> lizthegrey: it's a horrible idea though
2461 2011-06-07 18:20:18 <TD> jgarzik: ?
2462 2011-06-07 18:20:47 <gavinandresen> cat walked over his keyboard i think
2463 2011-06-07 18:20:59 <TD> heh
2464 2011-06-07 18:21:03 <jgarzik> erle-: are you talking about bitcoin keys? bitcoin and gpg keys are two totally different things.N
2465 2011-06-07 18:21:19 <TD> found this amusing video
2466 2011-06-07 18:21:20 <TD> http://laughingsquid.com/a-1998-internet-safety-video-for-kids/
2467 2011-06-07 18:21:27 <TD> back when the internet was scary and full of crime
2468 2011-06-07 18:21:32 <TD> the bitcoin of its day ;)
2469 2011-06-07 18:21:39 <erle-> jgarzik, i know
2470 2011-06-07 18:22:06 <erle-> jgarzik, but the difference was so incredibly huge
2471 2011-06-07 18:22:51 roconnor has joined
2472 2011-06-07 18:22:56 <lizthegrey> hah, dwolla seems to have DoSed itself. http://www.dwolla.org/blog/grid-is-here-cash-just-got-more-secure-than-plastic/ not loading
2473 2011-06-07 18:22:56 <jrmithdobbs> because ecdsa keys are magnitudes smaller
2474 2011-06-07 18:23:02 <lizthegrey> (they email blasted it to all dwolla customers)
2475 2011-06-07 18:23:14 <lizthegrey> way to reliability, guys. *golfclap*
2476 2011-06-07 18:23:52 <erle-> AMD/ATI should make a special bitcoin mining product
2477 2011-06-07 18:24:12 <BGL> that'd either be really cool or screw things up
2478 2011-06-07 18:24:13 <erle-> they really should have a product where they are leaders in :D
2479 2011-06-07 18:24:23 <BGL> yeah that too huh
2480 2011-06-07 18:24:26 <fizario> bitcard?
2481 2011-06-07 18:24:37 <jrmithdobbs> erle-: for comparisson gen an ecdsa key using the openssl binary using the same curve ... bitcoin actually gens them pretty slow.
2482 2011-06-07 18:24:47 <BGL> has some one made a btc specific livecd yet?
2483 2011-06-07 18:24:58 <erle-> jrmithdobbs, does bitcoin not use openssl?
2484 2011-06-07 18:25:50 d1234 has joined
2485 2011-06-07 18:26:52 <erle-> feature request: configure the location path for the wallet
2486 2011-06-07 18:27:04 <erle-> could be on external device or crypto mount only
2487 2011-06-07 18:28:07 <fizario> bitcrab
2488 2011-06-07 18:28:10 <fizario> crabcoin?
2489 2011-06-07 18:28:49 <jrmithdobbs> erle-: it does but it doesn't just gen the key it manipulates it quite a bit before storage
2490 2011-06-07 18:29:31 <erle-> sounds dangerous - just remembering debian :)
2491 2011-06-07 18:29:35 [DusT]1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2492 2011-06-07 18:29:46 <jrmithdobbs> no it doesn't modify the openssl code
2493 2011-06-07 18:30:13 <jrmithdobbs> manipulates == converts it to a format suitable for storage
2494 2011-06-07 18:30:30 <erle-> ok
2495 2011-06-07 18:31:02 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2496 2011-06-07 18:31:27 <erle-> the sha256 puzzle thing looks like new territory to me, too :)
2497 2011-06-07 18:31:58 <erle-> but should work fine under the assumption that sha256 isnt total crap
2498 2011-06-07 18:32:10 <jrmithdobbs> ...
2499 2011-06-07 18:33:02 d1234 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2500 2011-06-07 18:33:44 <erle-> is there a proof how it relates to preimage attacks?
2501 2011-06-07 18:36:10 <TD> i don't think there are mathematical proofs of any cryptographic primitives
2502 2011-06-07 18:36:22 <TD> i've talked with yu sasaki, who has worked on the best sha256 attacks to date
2503 2011-06-07 18:36:32 <TD> she didn't think the way bitcoin used sha256 was problematic
2504 2011-06-07 18:36:49 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2505 2011-06-07 18:37:05 vigilyn has quit (Quit: ircN 8.00 for mIRC (20100904) - www.ircN.org)
2506 2011-06-07 18:37:10 <erle-> does the client store the whole information at the moment? (including every transaction)
2507 2011-06-07 18:37:26 <erle-> sorry, i hope i don't annoy you :)
2508 2011-06-07 18:38:37 d1234 has joined
2509 2011-06-07 18:38:39 <vegard> and put it this way -- as soon as there is a feasible attack, we'll probably know about it
2510 2011-06-07 18:39:03 <erle-> yes
2511 2011-06-07 18:39:06 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
2512 2011-06-07 18:39:14 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
2513 2011-06-07 18:39:14 Blitzboom has joined
2514 2011-06-07 18:39:22 iocor has joined
2515 2011-06-07 18:39:36 <iocor> where is the most simple possible explanation of how to implement a bitcoin rpc miner?
2516 2011-06-07 18:41:51 jmpespxoreax has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2517 2011-06-07 18:41:58 <TD> erle-: yes it does
2518 2011-06-07 18:42:08 <TD> lizthegrey: interesting product from dwolla
2519 2011-06-07 18:42:17 <TD> lizthegrey: good to see it. i wish they had a presence outside the usa
2520 2011-06-07 18:42:47 <fizario> what does it do
2521 2011-06-07 18:42:53 <fizario> i couldnt click the link
2522 2011-06-07 18:43:26 <TD> seems to be an API for moving money around between dwolla accounts, with in-app purchasing and other stuff.
2523 2011-06-07 18:43:49 <TD> the main reason i like it, is they spend a lot of time talking about how financial privacy matters, and how the existing CC infrastructure is really the product of evolution rather than design
2524 2011-06-07 18:44:07 <TD> their thoughts are quite similar to that of bitcoin, in this regard
2525 2011-06-07 18:44:33 inductor has quit (Quit: leaving)
2526 2011-06-07 18:44:51 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
2527 2011-06-07 18:46:37 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r6015282 / src/db.cpp :
2528 2011-06-07 18:46:37 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Merge pull request #293 from tcatm/keypool-fix
2529 2011-06-07 18:46:37 <CIA-92> bitcoin: create keypool in LoadWallet() - http://bit.ly/jQ55DH
2530 2011-06-07 18:48:08 Workbench has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2531 2011-06-07 18:48:26 normanrichards has joined
2532 2011-06-07 18:49:50 <ersi> lizthegrey: http://www.dwolla.org.nyud.net/blog/grid-is-here-cash-just-got-more-secure-than-plastic/
2533 2011-06-07 18:49:55 <ersi> lizthegrey: CoralCache is the shit
2534 2011-06-07 18:50:08 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2535 2011-06-07 18:51:28 Workbench has joined
2536 2011-06-07 18:52:55 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2537 2011-06-07 18:53:25 WakiMiko has joined
2538 2011-06-07 18:53:26 agricocb has joined
2539 2011-06-07 18:56:45 GarrettB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2540 2011-06-07 18:56:48 <diki> if a wallet has many transactions will it slow the client?
2541 2011-06-07 18:56:58 <diki> this is pool-wise. Like many.many transactions a day
2542 2011-06-07 18:59:52 Akiron has joined
2543 2011-06-07 19:00:15 <Akiron> jgarzik: what's "What's Trending"?
2544 2011-06-07 19:00:22 <phantomcircuit> diki, it might simply because the wallet.dat would become seriously fragmented
2545 2011-06-07 19:00:24 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2546 2011-06-07 19:00:25 <gmaxwell> diki: why would a pool have "many.many transactions a day"? if it does you're doing it wrong.
2547 2011-06-07 19:01:16 <gmaxwell> diki: you should limit users to one payout per day, which you do in batches via sendmanys. Ideally you should also have a minimum payout threshold.
2548 2011-06-07 19:01:41 <gmaxwell> Otherwise you're just crapping up the network with lots of tiny coins which will take your users money money to spend.
2549 2011-06-07 19:03:00 edgarallanpoe has joined
2550 2011-06-07 19:04:35 iocor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2551 2011-06-07 19:05:13 <jgarzik> on What's Trending twitter feed:
2552 2011-06-07 19:05:16 <jgarzik> "WhatsTrending What's Trending
2553 2011-06-07 19:05:16 <jgarzik> Do you have any questions for Jeff, one of the co-founders of the Bitcoin open source software that Silk Road uses? Let us know at #wtlive"
2554 2011-06-07 19:05:18 <jgarzik> *facepalm*
2555 2011-06-07 19:05:35 <ersi> l o l
2556 2011-06-07 19:05:40 <ersi> fuck that shit
2557 2011-06-07 19:06:15 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2558 2011-06-07 19:06:33 <Akiron> jgarzik: did you manage to put any distance between bitcoin and silk road?
2559 2011-06-07 19:06:49 <jgarzik> hope so
2560 2011-06-07 19:06:58 Stellar has joined
2561 2011-06-07 19:07:11 <Blitzboom> lol co-founders
2562 2011-06-07 19:07:22 <xelister> wazup Blitzboom
2563 2011-06-07 19:07:25 <Blitzboom> but thatâs not as bad as saying gavin is bitcoinâs founder
2564 2011-06-07 19:07:32 <xelister> Blitzboom: you waited with some $$$ untill @19 ;) ?
2565 2011-06-07 19:07:49 <Blitzboom> xelister: iâm not stupid, iâm not selling now
2566 2011-06-07 19:07:49 <Akiron> co-founder is better than scaring people with Satoshi is a mysterious hacker stories
2567 2011-06-07 19:07:57 <xelister> Blitzboom: =)
2568 2011-06-07 19:08:02 eoss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2569 2011-06-07 19:08:04 <Akiron> even though Satoshi *is* a mysterious hacker
2570 2011-06-07 19:08:07 <Blitzboom> shit is going viral
2571 2011-06-07 19:08:16 keinplan has joined
2572 2011-06-07 19:08:17 <xelister> SHIT JUST GOT RE- VIRAL
2573 2011-06-07 19:08:31 <xelister> Akiron: I know who satoshi is, even found a movie about it
2574 2011-06-07 19:08:37 <OneFixt> hold on to yer party/pirate hats
2575 2011-06-07 19:08:41 <Blitzboom> i just wish satoshi wouldâve made a public explanation of his retreat at least
2576 2011-06-07 19:09:10 <xelister> Blitzboom: he got stahsed like 100k btc... why would he invite IRS/govs/other thugs
2577 2011-06-07 19:09:11 <Akiron> xelister: lol,
2578 2011-06-07 19:09:19 <Blitzboom> xelister: more like >1 million
2579 2011-06-07 19:09:25 <xelister> yeap, I ment at least
2580 2011-06-07 19:09:51 <Blitzboom> when i think about it, iâm always afraid satoshi is from the government
2581 2011-06-07 19:09:57 <Blitzboom> NSA or something
2582 2011-06-07 19:10:02 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2583 2011-06-07 19:10:07 <Akiron> i did original "research" that suggested that Satoshi lived in the U.S., but nobody cares, nobody really wants to find him
2584 2011-06-07 19:10:13 <OneFixt> Blitzboom: that still wouldn't be a problem - the gov't would have funding but the system is still fair
2585 2011-06-07 19:10:39 <Blitzboom> OneFixt: i wouldnât want the US government to posess that many bitcoins â¦
2586 2011-06-07 19:10:54 <xelister> Akiron: I have info on movie character matching Satoshi as close as around 1 : 200 milions ;) 10 BTC to obtain this information
2587 2011-06-07 19:10:56 <Akiron> Blitzboom: the more Satoshi has, the better, large chunks are hard to move
2588 2011-06-07 19:10:56 <Blitzboom> 1/6 of the current supply
2589 2011-06-07 19:10:58 <jgarzik> US State Dept recommends Tor. DARPA built the Internet. You never know.
2590 2011-06-07 19:11:05 <TD> they recommend tor?
2591 2011-06-07 19:11:05 <OneFixt> Blitzboom: i have no problem with it, the US government can be very good if it uses sound economics
2592 2011-06-07 19:11:10 * TD knew usg built it
2593 2011-06-07 19:11:14 <TD> or at least funded it
2594 2011-06-07 19:11:22 <xelister> oh here it is
2595 2011-06-07 19:11:25 <xelister> USA GOV
2596 2011-06-07 19:11:25 <Blitzboom> navy, right?
2597 2011-06-07 19:11:26 <xelister> PEEDOOoosss
2598 2011-06-07 19:11:32 <OneFixt> xelister: higurashi?
2599 2011-06-07 19:11:55 <jgarzik> CIA uses Tor for open source intel gathering. State Dept recommends Tor for dissidents. Hillary Clinton has been on a push lately, for Internet freedom.
2600 2011-06-07 19:12:06 <TD> right. bitcoin + china = good stuff
2601 2011-06-07 19:12:13 <Blitzboom> OneFixt: damn it, i hope we will find out who satoshi is/was in our lifetime â¦
2602 2011-06-07 19:12:14 <xelister> OneFixt: whats that
2603 2011-06-07 19:12:24 <Akiron> Blitzboom: there are huge chunks of bitcoins that aren't moving, but I doubt as some claim that they will be "dumped" at any time
2604 2011-06-07 19:12:31 <OneFixt> xelister: nvm, not what you found then =) it's an anime
2605 2011-06-07 19:12:47 <xelister> OneFixt: I ggld it. no not that
2606 2011-06-07 19:13:04 <Blitzboom> Akiron: itâs no wonder, looking at the difficulty in history
2607 2011-06-07 19:13:16 <Blitzboom> probably ten guys mined for a year
2608 2011-06-07 19:13:16 <xelister> OneFixt: 10 btc to find out
2609 2011-06-07 19:13:22 <Taveren93HGK> ;;bc,stats
2610 2011-06-07 19:13:24 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129243 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1796 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 56 minutes, and 28 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 680253.77114782
2611 2011-06-07 19:13:33 vorlov has joined
2612 2011-06-07 19:13:33 <xelister> adult man. jp. hacker. banking systems experts. earning a lot thanks to small values accumulated
2613 2011-06-07 19:13:45 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2614 2011-06-07 19:13:46 <xelister> really sounds like satoshi eh?
2615 2011-06-07 19:13:51 <Akiron> Blitzboom: well, if you look at the bitcoin days destroyed calculation, it suggests that old coins are slowly being brought into circulation
2616 2011-06-07 19:13:59 <Blitzboom> Akiron: and this also worries me
2617 2011-06-07 19:14:05 johnnympereira5 has joined
2618 2011-06-07 19:14:09 <Blitzboom> who can afford not to sell his coins at those prices?!
2619 2011-06-07 19:14:12 <Blitzboom> some of them
2620 2011-06-07 19:14:23 fpgaminer has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2621 2011-06-07 19:14:28 <OneFixt> xelister: if you're right, eventually it will come out anyway, and i'm patient =)
2622 2011-06-07 19:14:38 <xelister> OneFixt: just 10 btc
2623 2011-06-07 19:14:39 <OneFixt> but thanks for the offer
2624 2011-06-07 19:14:41 <xelister> :>
2625 2011-06-07 19:14:45 bliket has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2626 2011-06-07 19:14:54 <phantomcircuit> Blitzboom, me?
2627 2011-06-07 19:14:56 <Akiron> actually, when you have that many coins, you will likely sell them in an orderly fashion, regardless of price, it will be a stabilizing force
2628 2011-06-07 19:14:58 <OneFixt> haha yeah, it does seem small if you have short-term amnesia
2629 2011-06-07 19:15:09 <Blitzboom> phantomcircuit: i mean if you had a million or so like satoshi
2630 2011-06-07 19:15:22 <xelister> I wonder what is the maximum realistic price
2631 2011-06-07 19:15:27 <xelister> what it will reach next.. 100 ?!
2632 2011-06-07 19:15:30 <Akiron> xelister: he's not in japan!
2633 2011-06-07 19:15:43 <Blitzboom> xelister: in fiat money? infinite
2634 2011-06-07 19:15:54 <Blitzboom> fiat money is counterfeited, bitcoin isnât
2635 2011-06-07 19:16:03 * xelister sells @ â
2636 2011-06-07 19:16:19 <Blitzboom> Akiron: btw, whatâs your evidence for US?
2637 2011-06-07 19:16:24 <Blitzboom> people suggested UK
2638 2011-06-07 19:16:32 sethsethseth___ has joined
2639 2011-06-07 19:16:45 <Akiron> Blitzboom: look at when Satoshi sleeps, you can see it in the forums
2640 2011-06-07 19:16:56 <xelister> Akiron: with whom
2641 2011-06-07 19:16:59 <xelister> >_>
2642 2011-06-07 19:17:10 <Akiron> it shows time of day of posts
2643 2011-06-07 19:17:14 <Akiron> you can tell when he sleeps
2644 2011-06-07 19:17:16 sethsethseth___ has quit (Client Quit)
2645 2011-06-07 19:17:30 <Blitzboom> Akiron: doesnât mean heâs a US citizen
2646 2011-06-07 19:17:33 <Akiron> it suggests he's in the Americas
2647 2011-06-07 19:17:40 <OneFixt> maybe he works during the day and posts at night
2648 2011-06-07 19:17:41 <Blitzboom> heâs probably an academic, so it wouldnât surprise me
2649 2011-06-07 19:18:14 <phantomcircuit> Blitzboom, yes personally i would hold onto btc even if i had a million
2650 2011-06-07 19:18:15 <OneFixt> US or Canada
2651 2011-06-07 19:18:16 <Akiron> Blitzboom: fair enough, he could be Canadian, but I think there isn't really good evidence to think other than that he's on the west coast
2652 2011-06-07 19:18:23 <xelister> if only people would invent delayed re-posting systems
2653 2011-06-07 19:18:25 <Akiron> of the U.S.
2654 2011-06-07 19:18:26 <xelister> like FMS
2655 2011-06-07 19:18:28 <xelister> oh wait
2656 2011-06-07 19:18:28 <Blitzboom> phantomcircuit: you wouldnât sell 10k or so?
2657 2011-06-07 19:18:34 <xelister> *(like used in fms)
2658 2011-06-07 19:18:52 <Blitzboom> if so, you must be either a) rich, b) the government or c) stupid
2659 2011-06-07 19:19:18 <phantomcircuit> Blitzboom, i would sell enough to pay off any debt and obtain an annuity guaranteeing payment of property taxes
2660 2011-06-07 19:19:20 <xelister> Blitzboom: well he could wait till @30
2661 2011-06-07 19:19:22 <xelister> @50
2662 2011-06-07 19:19:24 <xelister> @100
2663 2011-06-07 19:19:26 <xelister> @9001
2664 2011-06-07 19:19:40 <Blitzboom> i like to imagine satoshi having lost his passphrase due to amnesia
2665 2011-06-07 19:19:48 <phantomcircuit> Blitzboom, which would be roughly 17k btc
2666 2011-06-07 19:19:48 <Blitzboom> and thatâs the reason for his abscence
2667 2011-06-07 19:19:54 <Blitzboom> heâs still trying to remember desperately
2668 2011-06-07 19:19:58 <Blitzboom> :D
2669 2011-06-07 19:20:02 <Akiron> xelister: anyone with a large number of coins would likely sell in small chunks over time
2670 2011-06-07 19:20:08 <phantomcircuit> lol
2671 2011-06-07 19:20:12 <OneFixt> Blitzboom: i hope the amnesia was accidental
2672 2011-06-07 19:20:23 <xelister> Blitzboom: he should make a bounty 100,000 and use the THashes to bruteforce it
2673 2011-06-07 19:20:31 <Akiron> the bitcoindays destroyed numbers suggests that is exactly what's happening
2674 2011-06-07 19:20:44 <xelister> Akiron: what numbers? urls?
2675 2011-06-07 19:21:02 <Blitzboom> i HOPE it is happening. else i would be worried
2676 2011-06-07 19:21:03 <Akiron> the Bitcoin Days Destroyed calculation
2677 2011-06-07 19:21:10 <xelister> Akiron: url?
2678 2011-06-07 19:21:16 <Akiron> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Days_Destroyed
2679 2011-06-07 19:21:25 <Akiron> look at the forum posts that are linked there
2680 2011-06-07 19:23:03 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2681 2011-06-07 19:23:55 gsathya has joined
2682 2011-06-07 19:25:09 <Akiron> if Satoshi started selling Bitcoin Days Destroyed would spike
2683 2011-06-07 19:25:36 <johnnympereira5> whats ur take on os..... using windows now but after many issues thinking of linux... should i use ubuntu or linux coin?
2684 2011-06-07 19:25:45 simkiss has joined
2685 2011-06-07 19:26:40 <xelister> johnnympereira5: coin?
2686 2011-06-07 19:26:50 <xelister> johnnympereira5: I use linux for desktop as well for mining etc
2687 2011-06-07 19:26:55 <xelister> so do many skilled people nowdays.
2688 2011-06-07 19:26:58 <xelister> windows sucks
2689 2011-06-07 19:27:03 <johnnympereira5> xelister: i meant linuxcoin
2690 2011-06-07 19:27:22 Jere_Jones has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2691 2011-06-07 19:27:50 Nevezen has joined
2692 2011-06-07 19:28:20 <johnnympereira5> xelister: i just hvent used linux in a few years... so it will be hard to get use to.... Ive tried to follow some of the posting of the steps to setup my miner but usually doesnt pan out
2693 2011-06-07 19:28:52 <xelister> johnnympereira5: overall linux is cool. that I can say
2694 2011-06-07 19:28:59 <xelister> also it is known that Ati tools are pain to use
2695 2011-06-07 19:29:03 <xelister> on any system
2696 2011-06-07 19:29:27 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2697 2011-06-07 19:30:09 <johnnympereira5> xelister: ya im just looking for something thats abit more stable... the miners we have now keep crashing and the cards hang every so often... too much down time
2698 2011-06-07 19:30:31 Jere_Jones has joined
2699 2011-06-07 19:30:38 <xelister> johnnympereira5: what card do you have
2700 2011-06-07 19:31:02 <xelister> about stability, are you sure you have good cooling, power supply etc? e.g. use 750W for radeon5970
2701 2011-06-07 19:31:21 <johnnympereira5> 5x 6950 and 8x 6870
2702 2011-06-07 19:31:40 <xelister> uh
2703 2011-06-07 19:31:44 <johnnympereira5> ya we have good cooling our temps r around 60-70.. we dont have cases and we have ac blowing in from a fan
2704 2011-06-07 19:31:44 <xelister> in how many boxes
2705 2011-06-07 19:31:48 Archevety has joined
2706 2011-06-07 19:31:57 <johnnympereira5> 3 per board
2707 2011-06-07 19:31:59 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
2708 2011-06-07 19:32:12 <johnnympereira5> our power supplys are 1000watt
2709 2011-06-07 19:36:19 Castorr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2710 2011-06-07 19:38:56 Jere_Jones has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2711 2011-06-07 19:41:29 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2712 2011-06-07 19:42:10 Akiron has left ()
2713 2011-06-07 19:44:05 da2ce7 has joined
2714 2011-06-07 19:45:33 vigilyn has joined
2715 2011-06-07 19:45:37 dvide has quit ()
2716 2011-06-07 19:45:42 Workbench has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2717 2011-06-07 19:45:46 [DusT] has joined
2718 2011-06-07 19:46:00 gps_ has joined
2719 2011-06-07 19:46:26 glicth-mod has joined
2720 2011-06-07 19:48:09 legion050 has joined
2721 2011-06-07 19:48:33 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2722 2011-06-07 19:48:46 LobsterMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2723 2011-06-07 19:49:34 fimp has joined
2724 2011-06-07 19:49:35 bahk has joined
2725 2011-06-07 19:51:06 Lachesis has joined
2726 2011-06-07 19:52:29 johnlockwood has quit (Quit: johnlockwood)
2727 2011-06-07 19:52:38 LobsterMan has joined
2728 2011-06-07 19:52:38 LobsterMan has quit (Changing host)
2729 2011-06-07 19:52:38 LobsterMan has joined
2730 2011-06-07 19:54:22 johnlockwood has joined
2731 2011-06-07 19:55:48 <nanotube> ;;op jgarzik
2732 2011-06-07 19:56:53 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
2733 2011-06-07 19:57:16 TheAncientGoat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2734 2011-06-07 19:59:28 intractable has joined
2735 2011-06-07 20:00:11 Workbench has joined
2736 2011-06-07 20:00:25 <diki> Go Anonymous!
2737 2011-06-07 20:01:27 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2738 2011-06-07 20:03:01 <diki> Go LulzSec
2739 2011-06-07 20:03:39 cenuij has joined
2740 2011-06-07 20:03:39 cenuij has quit (Changing host)
2741 2011-06-07 20:03:39 cenuij has joined
2742 2011-06-07 20:05:51 agricocb has joined
2743 2011-06-07 20:06:35 d17v1Nmz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2744 2011-06-07 20:06:58 <[Tycho]> That pie chart really scares people.
2745 2011-06-07 20:07:00 pRjck3vC has joined
2746 2011-06-07 20:09:10 Workbench has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2747 2011-06-07 20:10:39 <falafell> is key import/export planned for a specific version?
2748 2011-06-07 20:12:22 <gps_> Tycho - are you going to throw a party when you have over half?
2749 2011-06-07 20:12:22 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
2750 2011-06-07 20:12:25 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2751 2011-06-07 20:13:20 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
2752 2011-06-07 20:13:38 molecular has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2753 2011-06-07 20:13:47 sytse is now known as sytse|0114746
2754 2011-06-07 20:13:54 sytse is now known as 0114746!sytse@2001:888:1817:0:226:18ff:fe65:ac7b|sytse
2755 2011-06-07 20:15:03 zamgo has joined
2756 2011-06-07 20:15:07 MB123789 has joined
2757 2011-06-07 20:19:15 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2758 2011-06-07 20:21:03 jackmcbarn has joined
2759 2011-06-07 20:21:39 <jackmcbarn> ./bitcoin: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.11' not found (required by ./bitcoin)
2760 2011-06-07 20:21:39 <jackmcbarn> ./bitcoin: /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./bitcoin)
2761 2011-06-07 20:21:41 Phoebus has joined
2762 2011-06-07 20:21:45 <jackmcbarn> i get those errors with 0.3.22
2763 2011-06-07 20:21:48 <jackmcbarn> 0.3.21 works fine
2764 2011-06-07 20:22:53 germanMNY has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2765 2011-06-07 20:25:48 germanMNY has joined
2766 2011-06-07 20:25:57 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
2767 2011-06-07 20:27:48 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVMÂAVTEMÂCENSEOÂCVTTENBERCÂESSEÂDELENDVM)
2768 2011-06-07 20:30:52 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
2769 2011-06-07 20:31:57 <directhex> jackmcbarn: i assume there's a reason it's built against a newer libc than before
2770 2011-06-07 20:32:05 <jgarzik> deepbit's size is very demotivating
2771 2011-06-07 20:32:25 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2772 2011-06-07 20:32:28 <jgarzik> especially when [Tycho] is reluctant to participate in any sort of consensus on fees and transaction handling
2773 2011-06-07 20:33:07 <directhex> a larger pool feels like a "safe bet" for people who want to avoid risk. it means it's trusted, unlikely to go down, etc
2774 2011-06-07 20:33:26 <enki> all the other pools have shitty names
2775 2011-06-07 20:33:31 <enki> can we please just rename one of them
2776 2011-06-07 20:33:35 <zamgo> aye!
2777 2011-06-07 20:33:44 <zamgo> need better marketing in bitcoin land
2778 2011-06-07 20:34:06 <enki> i'd pick deepbit out of all of them, without having ever seen a pie chart
2779 2011-06-07 20:34:14 <enki> simply because the name is actually good
2780 2011-06-07 20:34:22 <enki> all the others sound like WoW clans
2781 2011-06-07 20:34:42 <directhex> guiminer defaults to slush's pool. or did when i started using it.
2782 2011-06-07 20:35:19 <directhex> defaults are safe and comfortable.
2783 2011-06-07 20:35:28 <jackmcbarn> directhex: is there anything i can do about it?
2784 2011-06-07 20:35:33 <[Tycho]> What consensus do you propose ?
2785 2011-06-07 20:37:44 <gps_> when deepbit receives fees they should refund the fees plus 200% to the person paying the fee.
2786 2011-06-07 20:38:08 <gps_> are the fees split among the pool, or does deepbit keep those on top of the 3%?
2787 2011-06-07 20:38:27 <zamgo> umm.. why?
2788 2011-06-07 20:38:40 <[Tycho]> No, the fees aren't split. But i'll think about it when they will become considerable.
2789 2011-06-07 20:38:49 <gps_> my first comment was just being unreasonable but no one was responding.
2790 2011-06-07 20:39:02 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2791 2011-06-07 20:39:10 <gps_> I was looking at some fees today, some of the blocks are getting .5 to over 1 btc per block.
2792 2011-06-07 20:39:11 <[Tycho]> jgarzik, is there a some specific forum thread about that tx processing agreement ?
2793 2011-06-07 20:39:23 <gmaxwell> gps_: the average is still pretty low
2794 2011-06-07 20:39:46 midnightmagic has quit (Quit: midnightmagic)
2795 2011-06-07 20:39:48 pusle has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2796 2011-06-07 20:40:01 <[Tycho]> I think I saw about ~5 blocks with 1 BTC fees over the last 3+ months
2797 2011-06-07 20:40:21 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=7749.0 and perhaps http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12343.0
2798 2011-06-07 20:40:49 <gps_> gmaxwell look at the last 20 blocks, only one has 0.01 a couple have 0.05 the rest have much more than that.
2799 2011-06-07 20:40:50 midnightmagic has joined
2800 2011-06-07 20:40:55 <[Tycho]> Lately the fees increased because of that new client version that forces users to pay, i don't like it.
2801 2011-06-07 20:41:14 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: it doesn't force users to pay, unless they are sending less than 0.01 BTC
2802 2011-06-07 20:41:17 <gmaxwell> gps_: looks like the average is .09 BTC at the moment.
2803 2011-06-07 20:41:38 <[Tycho]> jgarzik, are you sure ? May be it depends on tx size ?
2804 2011-06-07 20:41:55 <gmaxwell> There are more and mor '50 BTC with a bag of pennies' txn out there now.
2805 2011-06-07 20:41:58 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: free transactions remain free, unless the transaction is less than 0.01 or the transaction size is very large
2806 2011-06-07 20:42:11 <gps_> 0.09 * 19.25 = $1.7325 USD. & 72 blocks a day, = $124.74 not too bad for just the fees.
2807 2011-06-07 20:42:16 <gmaxwell> Partially due to pools doing on-demand payouts for tiny amounts.
2808 2011-06-07 20:42:18 <jrmithdobbs> those fees are people trying to prioritize their txns
2809 2011-06-07 20:42:18 luke-jr has quit (otg!~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2810 2011-06-07 20:42:35 <jrmithdobbs> and ya tiny pool insta payouts
2811 2011-06-07 20:42:40 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: the official bitcoin client will always support free transactions
2812 2011-06-07 20:42:53 luke-jr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2813 2011-06-07 20:43:05 <[Tycho]> jgarzik, but there was a version that forced fees, yes ?
2814 2011-06-07 20:43:08 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: no
2815 2011-06-07 20:43:22 <[Tycho]> I remember users complaining about ut.
2816 2011-06-07 20:43:24 <[Tycho]> *it
2817 2011-06-07 20:43:28 zooko has quit (Quit: brb)
2818 2011-06-07 20:43:50 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: there was some misconfiguration. in almost every case, the user set a fee, and did not reset it.
2819 2011-06-07 20:44:22 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: fee is only required if (a) less than 0.01 being sent, or (b) transaction is too large to fit in 27k free area.
2820 2011-06-07 20:44:29 <jrmithdobbs> [Tycho]: those were people complaining about things they didn't understand
2821 2011-06-07 20:44:54 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: and yes, we want to increase the free area size. but in no case is that a _forced_ fee.
2822 2011-06-07 20:44:58 <zamgo> i see a lot of complaints over fees below 0.01... that bitcoin doesn't support micropayments
2823 2011-06-07 20:45:06 <phantomcircuit> ./bitcoind sendfrom "" *snip* 44.05
2824 2011-06-07 20:45:07 <phantomcircuit> error: {"code":-1,"message":"bad lexical cast: source type value could not be interpreted as target"}
2825 2011-06-07 20:45:08 <phantomcircuit> wat?
2826 2011-06-07 20:45:11 <jgarzik> zamgo: bitcoin is not intended to support micropayments
2827 2011-06-07 20:45:30 <zamgo> that fact needs to be made more public
2828 2011-06-07 20:45:42 <[Tycho]> jgarzik, it's strange. I'll think about this further.
2829 2011-06-07 20:45:48 <directhex> jackmcbarn: do about what precisely?
2830 2011-06-07 20:46:15 <jgarzik> zamgo: it was in satoshi's original paper
2831 2011-06-07 20:46:24 <jgarzik> and it's all over the forums and wiki
2832 2011-06-07 20:46:25 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: kinds of txn you're seeing these days: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/7a6c69252663ef1e525fbd6558b0e5e8ccbc42d9dcce8b6007b3bd4fac3c5b79#o1
2833 2011-06-07 20:46:41 <gps_> RE: http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=7749.0 Tycho, does your pool accept these smaller tx fees or does it not accept the new client's new minimum size?
2834 2011-06-07 20:47:03 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: sure, a 55k TX darn well better pay a fee...
2835 2011-06-07 20:47:23 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: I fully agree.
2836 2011-06-07 20:47:24 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: that's 220x the size of a normal TX
2837 2011-06-07 20:47:42 <[Tycho]> jgarzik, i voted there. You want me to do something about fees ?
2838 2011-06-07 20:47:56 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: but this sort of thing, plus the new users which have 0.02 fresh from the faucet and hit the low prio check. Are why you're hearing that fees are "required"
2839 2011-06-07 20:48:34 <[Tycho]> gps_, are you talking about any transactions or transactions with output less than 0.01 ?
2840 2011-06-07 20:48:43 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2841 2011-06-07 20:48:57 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: How you _distribute_ fees is up to you. That's your pool, your users. But the fee policy for your miner is what I would like to discuss (hopefully coordinate with rest of network!)
2842 2011-06-07 20:49:04 <jgarzik> bitcoind
2843 2011-06-07 20:49:05 <gps_> any. Tycho, any, first line of the thread: Consensus on IRC seems to be building around a change to the minimum TX fee, reducing from 0.01 to 0.0005 BTC.
2844 2011-06-07 20:50:02 <[Tycho]> gps_, 0.0005 looks fine to me.
2845 2011-06-07 20:50:08 <andrew12> hm
2846 2011-06-07 20:50:22 <andrew12> anyone have a pastie of artforz's python bitcoin node?
2847 2011-06-07 20:50:34 Mechatronic has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2848 2011-06-07 20:50:56 caedes has joined
2849 2011-06-07 20:51:16 <[Tycho]> jgarzik, at this moment my pool accepts up to 100 Kb of free TXes, enough to confirm all free TXes reasonably fast.
2850 2011-06-07 20:51:43 <fizario> cool
2851 2011-06-07 20:51:43 <[Tycho]> I'll try to make bitcoin transactions free as long as possible.
2852 2011-06-07 20:52:04 germanMNY has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2853 2011-06-07 20:52:12 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: as repeatedly stated, there will always been a free TX area
2854 2011-06-07 20:52:26 <andrew12> lupine_85: you around?
2855 2011-06-07 20:52:30 lumos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2856 2011-06-07 20:53:26 lumos has joined
2857 2011-06-07 20:53:26 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: but we try to keep fee to support three goals: (a) support free transactions for "normal people", (b) prevent spam on broadcast network, (c) permit paying of fee to increase priority
2858 2011-06-07 20:54:05 <jgarzik> [Tycho]: that's why client will not relay < 0.01, or why a single 55k TX requires a fee.
2859 2011-06-07 20:54:16 <gps_> which is my question, does the new miner's 0.0005 increase it's priority with your pool, or is it treated as a free transaction?
2860 2011-06-07 20:55:18 <fizario> fees are worrisome if you want to support micropayments
2861 2011-06-07 20:56:34 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2862 2011-06-07 20:56:42 Xunie has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2863 2011-06-07 20:56:53 Dan__ has joined
2864 2011-06-07 20:57:00 <Dan__> Hi all! Does anyone possibly have any spare coins on TestNet they could spare? I've been mining on TestNet for hours and generated nothing, and the Faucet is dead :( Address is mrVBxGv5EhSfF33cPrJrq4C6DXnwh6RwHg
2865 2011-06-07 20:59:42 <vegard> Dan__: you could try to buy some with real coins ;)
2866 2011-06-07 20:59:46 <tcatm> Dan__: sent
2867 2011-06-07 21:01:09 sethsethseth___ has joined
2868 2011-06-07 21:02:43 <[Tycho]> Currently minimal fee is 0.01
2869 2011-06-07 21:03:07 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2870 2011-06-07 21:03:26 <Dan__> Wow, thank you very much :-)
2871 2011-06-07 21:03:46 <Dan__> would rather test with test coins than real cash ;-P
2872 2011-06-07 21:04:08 lumos is now known as klaku
2873 2011-06-07 21:04:13 <Dan__> Just hope there are enough machines on testnet for it to confirm ;(
2874 2011-06-07 21:04:13 ar4s has joined
2875 2011-06-07 21:04:17 <tcatm> that's exactly what testnet is for :)
2876 2011-06-07 21:05:00 <phantomcircuit> ;;seen MagicalTux
2877 2011-06-07 21:05:00 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 21 hours, 20 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> BlueMatt: on a Qt client, not C#
2878 2011-06-07 21:06:01 kik- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2879 2011-06-07 21:06:27 sethsethseth___ has left ()
2880 2011-06-07 21:07:45 <fizario> we dont need no stinkin fees! and btw there's a way to cut down on spam (its called.... hashcash.org)
2881 2011-06-07 21:08:09 <fizario> :)
2882 2011-06-07 21:09:00 Workbench has joined
2883 2011-06-07 21:09:03 vikarti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2884 2011-06-07 21:09:17 <gps_> fizario: so all clients have to perform a POW to send a transaction on the network? To allow it to work for CPU's a spammer would just use their GPU to create millions of spam transactions.
2885 2011-06-07 21:09:29 vikarti has joined
2886 2011-06-07 21:09:30 <andrew12> no one has a link to artforz's python node?
2887 2011-06-07 21:09:39 <andrew12> or "half-a-node" as he called it
2888 2011-06-07 21:10:30 <fizario> gps_: the function doesn't have to be gpu-optimizable.
2889 2011-06-07 21:10:51 <phantomcircuit> gps_, what
2890 2011-06-07 21:10:53 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2891 2011-06-07 21:11:00 <fizario> and the spammer is still paying per KB and microfees so what does he gain
2892 2011-06-07 21:11:14 <gps_> hashcash uses sha. bitcoin uses sha. what POW would you suggest that couldn't be optimized for GPU but can still be done by CPU?
2893 2011-06-07 21:11:40 Dan__ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2894 2011-06-07 21:11:43 <gps_> You've got me completely confused, you said: we dont need no stinkin fees! and btw there's a way to cut down on spam (its called.... hashcash.org)
2895 2011-06-07 21:11:52 <gps_> saying, we don't need fees and that hash cash can prevent spam
2896 2011-06-07 21:11:57 xnljoffer has joined
2897 2011-06-07 21:12:11 <gps_> now you are saying, we wouldn't use hash cash and they still pay fees so they wouldn't gain anything?
2898 2011-06-07 21:12:37 <fizario> there are still per KB fees. some micro fees + hashcash makes it completely a waste of time & money for any spammer..
2899 2011-06-07 21:13:25 <gps_> okay...
2900 2011-06-07 21:13:44 <gps_> i don't see what hashcash has to do with anything...
2901 2011-06-07 21:14:16 <fizario> its a major deterrent. you can lower the microfees even further
2902 2011-06-07 21:14:26 RAM2012 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2903 2011-06-07 21:14:37 drbrontosaurus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2904 2011-06-07 21:14:55 <gps_> how much CPU time are you suggesting? And again, I would say if it takes 10 seconds on a CPU, a spammer could do the same thing with a GPU 1000 times faster.
2905 2011-06-07 21:15:37 drbrontosaurus has joined
2906 2011-06-07 21:15:44 zamgo has left ()
2907 2011-06-07 21:16:07 <fizario> gpu is not an all-purpose supercomputer. there are lots of problems that require random access memory to a bigger structures that wouldn't benefit much from a gpu
2908 2011-06-07 21:16:55 <gps_> again, what are you suggesting? As both hashcash and bitcoin use sha hashes. What is a sample of one that needs more ram? You sound like you've just read the white paper of hashcash and are quoting it verbatum.
2909 2011-06-07 21:17:30 <fizario> do you realize that sha can be replaced with any other work function?
2910 2011-06-07 21:17:36 <fizario> you should read the paper and understand what proof of work means
2911 2011-06-07 21:17:47 <gps_> example?
2912 2011-06-07 21:18:10 <gps_> http://hashcash.org/papers/hashcash.pdf
2913 2011-06-07 21:18:36 <fizario> k-sat(input)
2914 2011-06-07 21:18:37 <gps_> It mentions no other functions.
2915 2011-06-07 21:18:39 <fizario> pick any problem you like
2916 2011-06-07 21:19:07 <fizario> ok so you dont really grok the PoW concept.. sha isn't essential to it at all
2917 2011-06-07 21:19:45 luke-jr has joined
2918 2011-06-07 21:20:33 <fizario> "difficult to solve easy to verify" is exactly what is captured by most np-complete problems
2919 2011-06-07 21:20:36 <fizario> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-complete
2920 2011-06-07 21:20:39 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2921 2011-06-07 21:20:40 <fizario> such as k-sat etc
2922 2011-06-07 21:20:44 luke-jr has joined
2923 2011-06-07 21:21:11 <fizario> partial k-sat with a certain # of variables for instance
2924 2011-06-07 21:21:32 peck has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2925 2011-06-07 21:21:41 Count_Niedar has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
2926 2011-06-07 21:21:45 <luke-jr> jgarzik: sorry, but I think it's a good thing people don't just obey the wxBitcoin developers blindly
2927 2011-06-07 21:21:46 <luke-jr> jgarzik: if people don't like Deepbit's policy, they can switch to other pools
2928 2011-06-07 21:22:02 Niedar has joined
2929 2011-06-07 21:22:47 <jgarzik> luke-jr: who said anything about obeying? All I asked was to reach consensus on a forum, due to 50% network power being something that has a large impact on many bitcoin users
2930 2011-06-07 21:23:27 <gmaxwell> fizario: there are special hashes which are made to be harder to build faster hardware than general purpose cpus for.
2931 2011-06-07 21:23:30 <gmaxwell> fizario: see scrypt.
2932 2011-06-07 21:24:12 <gmaxwell> fizario: bitcoin's normal POW is the money itself, which is reusable, which is nice.
2933 2011-06-07 21:24:48 <fizario> yeah there are lots of convoluted functions that dont get much benefit from special-purpose chips
2934 2011-06-07 21:24:52 friedger has joined
2935 2011-06-07 21:25:04 <fizario> highly parallel functions that require random access to larger memory sets
2936 2011-06-07 21:25:32 <gmaxwell> That would be mostly what scrypt does. They staged the memory access to follow the typical PC memory hierarchy.
2937 2011-06-07 21:25:49 <gmaxwell> Their paper is good.
2938 2011-06-07 21:26:15 <gmaxwell> I was whining that bitcoin should use it for the block POWâ but it was pointed out to me that we'd _rather_ have asic miners than have botnets have the strongest hand.
2939 2011-06-07 21:26:25 <gmaxwell> And I thought that was compelling.
2940 2011-06-07 21:26:32 x6763 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2941 2011-06-07 21:26:34 peck has joined
2942 2011-06-07 21:27:10 <gmaxwell> (but the power to abuse mostly in the hands of the people with the most to lose)
2943 2011-06-07 21:27:38 Asphodelia has joined
2944 2011-06-07 21:28:11 <fizario> with a cpu-targetted function im guess the participation would be more spread out and less concentrated
2945 2011-06-07 21:28:26 <Asphodelia> Will installing miniupnp interfere with the existing upnp on my system?
2946 2011-06-07 21:28:30 <gps_> oh yes, let's give botnets the cpu/memory upperhand for proof of work for spamming the network
2947 2011-06-07 21:28:36 <netxshare> was minimizetotray=1 removed in 0.3.21-beta?
2948 2011-06-07 21:28:50 Guest98310 has joined
2949 2011-06-07 21:28:51 <gmaxwell> fizario: but also more subject to someone getting a botnet to have their way with it.
2950 2011-06-07 21:28:52 <Asphodelia> > implying botnets can't use gpus
2951 2011-06-07 21:29:13 <Guest98310> hi
2952 2011-06-07 21:29:19 <Asphodelia> Hi.
2953 2011-06-07 21:29:25 <gmaxwell> Asphodelia: they can, but they tend to have less of them... and if ASIC miners are widely deployed GPUs will mostly be like cpus today.
2954 2011-06-07 21:29:39 <Guest98310> do you know "Tycho", the webmaster of deepbit ?
2955 2011-06-07 21:29:46 <fizario> if gpu miners are profitable, then the same evil botnet guys will buy gpus
2956 2011-06-07 21:29:51 <luke-jr> jgarzik: 50% network power is a problem regardless of fee policies
2957 2011-06-07 21:29:52 <xnljoffer> hey guys sorry for the stupid question but is there some nicely written spec for the bitcoin protocol ?
2958 2011-06-07 21:30:12 <gps_> never heard of Tycho
2959 2011-06-07 21:30:18 <gmaxwell> fizario: "buy" well, if they buy then they have an investment that they'd worry about losing.
2960 2011-06-07 21:30:25 RAM2012 has joined
2961 2011-06-07 21:30:36 <Asphodelia> Guest98310: try asking in #bitcoin-otc
2962 2011-06-07 21:30:41 <gmaxwell> fizario: and note that I did specify asic miners in comparison.
2963 2011-06-07 21:30:42 <jgarzik> Guest98310: who's that?
2964 2011-06-07 21:30:55 <Guest98310> jgarzik: it's the webmaster of deepbit.net
2965 2011-06-07 21:31:03 <Guest98310> jgarzik: i try to contact him
2966 2011-06-07 21:31:08 <gps_> Guest98310: for real though, scroll to the bottom of the list here, he has brackets around his name
2967 2011-06-07 21:31:15 <fizario> the botnet is also an asset. however youd have many more good botnets such as universities, companies, etc.
2968 2011-06-07 21:31:28 <fizario> SET@HOME had like 5 million PC's at its peak. no botnet can compete with such wide participation
2969 2011-06-07 21:31:34 eao has joined
2970 2011-06-07 21:31:39 <Guest98310> thanks, bye
2971 2011-06-07 21:31:52 <gmaxwell> fizario: there have been multi-million host botnets according to reports.
2972 2011-06-07 21:31:53 <Asphodelia> xnljoffer: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
2973 2011-06-07 21:31:55 Guest98310 has left ("Quitte")
2974 2011-06-07 21:32:14 <xnljoffer> Asphodelia, stupid me . 10x ;)
2975 2011-06-07 21:32:29 <gmaxwell> fizario: and as we've seen, excessively distributed mining doesn't prevent consolidation. In some ways it encourages consolidation into the hands of less responsible parties.
2976 2011-06-07 21:32:39 <fizario> a 5 million botnet could probably have a significant chunk of current power anyway
2977 2011-06-07 21:33:00 x6763 has joined
2978 2011-06-07 21:33:14 <gmaxwell> fizario: yes, but not enough for a takeover. And certantly not (going back to what I initially said) if someone producitzed a custom mining asic.
2979 2011-06-07 21:33:44 <sturles> gmaxwell: Someone already did. (Produce a custom mining ASIC.)
2980 2011-06-07 21:33:45 Moonies has joined
2981 2011-06-07 21:33:53 <gmaxwell> sturles: I'm not counting art's sasic.
2982 2011-06-07 21:34:19 <gmaxwell> It's not the multiple order of magnitude $/mh improvement that a (high NRE) custom process would provide.
2983 2011-06-07 21:34:43 <fizario> good PC users will vastly outnumber botnets based on seti@home, folding, etc. however, theres no guarantee mega-miners with custom-built chips will use their power for the greater good
2984 2011-06-07 21:34:55 BlueSTARS has joined
2985 2011-06-07 21:35:16 <gmaxwell> fizario: good PC users don't mean shit when they're all just drones in the $BITPOOL botnet.
2986 2011-06-07 21:35:41 <fizario> if that were true the majority of PC's would be drones
2987 2011-06-07 21:36:16 Lachesis has quit (Disconnected by services)
2988 2011-06-07 21:36:20 BlueSTARS is now known as lachesis
2989 2011-06-07 21:36:42 BlueSTARS has joined
2990 2011-06-07 21:36:47 <gmaxwell> Some consolidation is inevitable. Work that requires custom hardware should result in consolidation in parties that have assets to protect, vs conslidation in botnet operators. I'd rather trust the former to be good.
2991 2011-06-07 21:37:23 <fizario> i think your fears of a botnet apocalypse which turns everyone into a zombie are a bit overblown :)
2992 2011-06-07 21:37:28 dsg_ has joined
2993 2011-06-07 21:37:47 <gmaxwell> I mean, we've already effectively got a botnet with >40% of the hashpower.
2994 2011-06-07 21:37:51 dsg_ is now known as dsg
2995 2011-06-07 21:37:58 dsg has quit (Changing host)
2996 2011-06-07 21:37:58 dsg has joined
2997 2011-06-07 21:38:19 <fizario> yeah i see that as another issue - pooling can be decentralized
2998 2011-06-07 21:38:28 <gps_> Take a quick look at what botnet is typically meant as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botnet
2999 2011-06-07 21:38:30 <gmaxwell> fizario: There is a thread on a proposal for that.
3000 2011-06-07 21:38:38 Hello1024 has joined
3001 2011-06-07 21:38:52 <vegard> luke-jr: hi, mind if I send you a private message?
3002 2011-06-07 21:39:00 <luke-jr> why would you do that?
3003 2011-06-07 21:39:08 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
3004 2011-06-07 21:39:19 <vegard> just curious about some eligius code
3005 2011-06-07 21:39:51 <luke-jr> there's #Eligius
3006 2011-06-07 21:39:54 <gmaxwell> gps_: indeed, I'm taking a overly broad definition of it. But it's the case that the miners for a pool don't know about what the pool is doing with their computing power.
3007 2011-06-07 21:40:13 <vegard> it might be security sensitive
3008 2011-06-07 21:40:27 <jrmithdobbs> vegard: most of it's published
3009 2011-06-07 21:40:35 <luke-jr> vegard: ok
3010 2011-06-07 21:40:54 <gps_> sure- does everyone not think that if it were to be discovered that Tycho was doing something innapropriate with > 50% that everyone would immedietely GTFO of his pool?
3011 2011-06-07 21:40:59 BlueSTARS has quit (Client Quit)
3012 2011-06-07 21:41:05 <luke-jr> gps_: highly unlikely
3013 2011-06-07 21:41:18 <luke-jr> gps_: merely *having* 50% is itself inappropriate
3014 2011-06-07 21:41:25 Moonies has quit (Quit: quack)
3015 2011-06-07 21:41:53 yellowhat has joined
3016 2011-06-07 21:42:19 <gps_> luke: really? if he were writing over other pools blocks and splitting the chain and causing panick in the bitcoin network you really don't think everyone would jump out? Or you think they would stay there because of the increased profit being in a greater than 50% and crushing all other miners?
3017 2011-06-07 21:42:30 <fizario> gps_: is rejecting tx from suspected drug dealers inappropriate? he who creates the blocks has wide discretion
3018 2011-06-07 21:42:43 <luke-jr> gps_: I don't think most of them would notice.
3019 2011-06-07 21:42:59 <luke-jr> fizario: hmm, good idea
3020 2011-06-07 21:43:00 <gmaxwell> gps_: they didn't jump out when people were insisting on the forums saying they should. They didn't jump out when the pool tool a multihout outage which cost them money.
3021 2011-06-07 21:43:16 <gps_> they probably wouldn't notice. What I am saying is it probably would be hard to hide. and if he blocks transactions, there are plenty of other nodes that will accept them.
3022 2011-06-07 21:43:17 <gmaxwell> er multihour
3023 2011-06-07 21:43:37 <fizario> heh luke-jr.. what about file sharers? or ppl with unpopular political views? or anyone from .ir ?
3024 2011-06-07 21:43:41 <luke-jr> gps_: if they don't notice, they don't act
3025 2011-06-07 21:43:51 <luke-jr> fizario: nothing wrong with file sharing
3026 2011-06-07 21:43:53 <gmaxwell> There is no legit purpose to willfully having close to 50% of the hashpower.
3027 2011-06-07 21:44:16 <fizario> you dont want a single point of failure that authorities can use to put restrictions on the network
3028 2011-06-07 21:44:25 <gps_> gmaxwell: it's like bitcoin publicity lately. OMFG you can buy drugs with bitcoin! Shut them down! It didn't shut down bitcoin, it made more people curious. You talk about deepbit, people see it's big, and they join it.
3029 2011-06-07 21:44:27 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: well, there could be ;)
3030 2011-06-07 21:44:37 <gmaxwell> fizario: or a single point of failure which can be (and has been) DDOSed.
3031 2011-06-07 21:44:38 <gps_> people don't care what the publicity is as long as you link their website correctly
3032 2011-06-07 21:45:15 <gmaxwell> gps_: people screaming got it down to closer to 40% from 50% but haven't been able to move it down further.
3033 2011-06-07 21:45:30 Gnaffel has joined
3034 2011-06-07 21:45:35 <luke-jr> vegard: are you going to PM me or not?
3035 2011-06-07 21:45:40 <gmaxwell> It didn't help that the pool temporarily removed its fees when it was below 40% after a DOS attack.
3036 2011-06-07 21:46:41 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: that was obviously intentional
3037 2011-06-07 21:46:54 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3038 2011-06-07 21:46:57 <gps_> but the DOS attack didn't just effect them, all the pools were hurting, or at least most of them. i know slush's was having issues at the same time. some of the smaller ones that weren't getting attacked directly probably couldn't handle the influx of users.
3039 2011-06-07 21:47:57 <fizario> http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2049
3040 2011-06-07 21:48:05 friedger has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3041 2011-06-07 21:49:08 <gmaxwell> gps_: slush's pool itself was fine, the website got overloaded after deepbit had been hosed for a bit.
3042 2011-06-07 21:49:13 <lachesis> MagicalTux, where does the name MtGox come from, anyway?
3043 2011-06-07 21:49:15 <fizario> they talk about some PoW functions that also perform useful computation
3044 2011-06-07 21:50:25 <gps_> mtgox = Magical Tux Gathering of Exchange
3045 2011-06-07 21:51:13 <fizario> interesting, they talk about verifying the correctness of programs as a possible PoW that is also useful outside of the system
3046 2011-06-07 21:51:34 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3047 2011-06-07 21:51:36 NOTAL has joined
3048 2011-06-07 21:51:45 gps_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3049 2011-06-07 21:52:04 jmpespxoreax has joined
3050 2011-06-07 21:52:28 linode has joined
3051 2011-06-07 21:53:18 molecular has joined
3052 2011-06-07 21:53:45 <linode> Any debian devs out there feel like creating a ppa for bitcoin 32/64? A lot of people are asking for it....
3053 2011-06-07 21:53:48 <Breign> Proof of What?
3054 2011-06-07 21:53:55 <fizario> lachesis: mtzlu.com is available :)
3055 2011-06-07 21:54:06 <BlueMatt> linode: bitcoind is officially packaged...
3056 2011-06-07 21:54:13 <linode> there's a site?
3057 2011-06-07 21:54:22 <BlueMatt> no its in unstable
3058 2011-06-07 21:54:24 <linode> people asking: http://askubuntu.com/questions/47550/how-to-run-the-official-bitcoin-client-on-natty?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitt
3059 2011-06-07 21:54:26 <BlueMatt> but official repos
3060 2011-06-07 21:54:39 <lachesis> BlueMatt, are you the one who made an encrypted wallet patch?
3061 2011-06-07 21:54:40 <Kolky> for all dutch speaking people; we've got our own channel @ #bitcoin-nl and since this week we also have a new news site @ http://www.bitcoinclub.nl
3062 2011-06-07 21:54:45 Kurtov has joined
3063 2011-06-07 21:54:47 <BlueMatt> lachesis: yes
3064 2011-06-07 21:54:56 <lachesis> BlueMatt, does it encrypt everything or just the priv keys?
3065 2011-06-07 21:55:07 <BlueMatt> linode: oh that guy is just blind, needs to read about how you can run 0.3.22+ fine
3066 2011-06-07 21:55:10 <BlueMatt> lachesis: privkeys
3067 2011-06-07 21:55:17 <lachesis> BlueMatt, excellent
3068 2011-06-07 21:55:32 <lachesis> so it only needs your enc. key / password to send coins?
3069 2011-06-07 21:55:34 <linode> ok cool... Just want to make sure people are able to do this. thanks
3070 2011-06-07 21:55:51 <BlueMatt> lachesis: yes
3071 2011-06-07 21:55:57 <lachesis> on github?
3072 2011-06-07 21:56:01 <BlueMatt> yes
3073 2011-06-07 21:56:07 <lachesis> sweet
3074 2011-06-07 21:56:16 <lachesis> ah, *The*BlueMatt
3075 2011-06-07 21:56:24 <BlueMatt> yes BlueMatt was taken
3076 2011-06-07 21:57:15 <fizario> "The severity of the Fukishima disaster continues to go up, from incident level 4 to level 5 to level 7, and now to 20% of total Chernobyl radioactive spill."
3077 2011-06-07 21:57:29 <BlueMatt> yep
3078 2011-06-07 21:57:40 <fizario> japanese porn is only going to get weirder
3079 2011-06-07 21:57:48 <BlueMatt> not sure thats possible
3080 2011-06-07 21:57:48 hybriz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3081 2011-06-07 21:58:53 <diki> congrats everyone
3082 2011-06-07 21:59:01 <diki> it's world ipv6 day(for me at least)
3083 2011-06-07 21:59:25 <BlueMatt> no it starts 00 utc
3084 2011-06-07 22:00:06 <diki> now is?
3085 2011-06-07 22:00:16 <BlueMatt> 10 pm
3086 2011-06-07 22:00:49 <diki> i am hoping i can brute another block
3087 2011-06-07 22:01:03 <gmaxwell> On the encrypted wallet branch .. what happens if you don't have the key and you hit getaddress?
3088 2011-06-07 22:01:21 <BlueMatt> works fine
3089 2011-06-07 22:01:32 <BlueMatt> (unless keypool is empty)
3090 2011-06-07 22:01:37 <BlueMatt> in which case it returns error
3091 2011-06-07 22:02:20 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: does the keypool let itself go empty before refilling?
3092 2011-06-07 22:02:25 johnnympereira5 has joined
3093 2011-06-07 22:02:29 robin has left ()
3094 2011-06-07 22:02:32 <BlueMatt> every time you enter pass it fills
3095 2011-06-07 22:02:36 <BlueMatt> otherwise it runs out
3096 2011-06-07 22:02:44 xnljoffer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3097 2011-06-07 22:02:44 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3098 2011-06-07 22:03:10 <gmaxwell> if the pass is entered will it keep it at 100? e.g. if I do 99txn, backup, then do 4 more will I expect to lose some of the resulting change?
3099 2011-06-07 22:03:27 cryptocnt has joined
3100 2011-06-07 22:03:34 <BlueMatt> if you do a txn you have to enter your pass first
3101 2011-06-07 22:03:40 ZOP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3102 2011-06-07 22:04:11 TommyBoy3G has quit ()
3103 2011-06-07 22:04:49 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: sure about that? thought for bitcoind you had a timeout option?
3104 2011-06-07 22:04:54 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: somewhat OT, Any idea why this design for keygeneration was used instead of e.g. key_n=SHA512(4kb_randomblob+n) so that one backup would be all a wallet needs?
3105 2011-06-07 22:05:13 robin has joined
3106 2011-06-07 22:05:14 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3107 2011-06-07 22:05:31 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: because then an old wallet will get you all the new coins, not just some
3108 2011-06-07 22:05:48 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: I do, but each time you do a txn it will also gen keys not just at enter
3109 2011-06-07 22:05:53 <BlueMatt> it tries to gen addresses all the time
3110 2011-06-07 22:05:59 <BlueMatt> probably too much
3111 2011-06-07 22:06:12 <jrmithdobbs> did you make getnewaddress actually use keypool btw?
3112 2011-06-07 22:06:16 <jrmithdobbs> right now it doesn't seem to
3113 2011-06-07 22:06:21 <BlueMatt> yes it does
3114 2011-06-07 22:06:32 <BlueMatt> it does use keypool now
3115 2011-06-07 22:07:11 hybriz_ has joined
3116 2011-06-07 22:07:18 <lachesis> BlueMatt, so i only need WALLET_PASSWORD env. variable on first run?
3117 2011-06-07 22:07:21 <lachesis> also, how stable is this?
3118 2011-06-07 22:07:27 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: "old wallet will get you all the new coins, not just some" seems like a desirable property. If you're depending on lost wallets being out of date you may already be screwed, since many people reuse addresses for long spans of time.
3119 2011-06-07 22:07:40 <BlueMatt> stable afaik, someone had said they had used it for a month now pretty well
3120 2011-06-07 22:08:09 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: well I wasnt involved in the decision so...
3121 2011-06-07 22:08:10 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3122 2011-06-07 22:08:16 <BlueMatt> lachesis: uh...Id actually have to check on that one
3123 2011-06-07 22:08:17 AAA_awright has joined
3124 2011-06-07 22:08:26 <BlueMatt> been a long time since I wrote it
3125 2011-06-07 22:08:29 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yea, I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to make sure I understand it.
3126 2011-06-07 22:08:49 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: no, I know, its a good idea as does it have problems
3127 2011-06-07 22:08:53 <lachesis> BlueMatt, seems a touch useless if the password is just sitting in my launch file somewhere :)
3128 2011-06-07 22:08:57 <BlueMatt> I dont know for sure why that kind of system was not used
3129 2011-06-07 22:09:00 Tarlusk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3130 2011-06-07 22:09:11 <BlueMatt> lachesis: no its only *required* on first use
3131 2011-06-07 22:09:22 <BlueMatt> but Im not sure if you can use it thereafter to not have to call walletpassword
3132 2011-06-07 22:09:28 <lachesis> ah i see
3133 2011-06-07 22:09:28 <lachesis> cool
3134 2011-06-07 22:09:53 <lachesis> BlueMatt, gmaxwell, satoshi didn't want a compromised backup to compromise all your bitcoins for eternity
3135 2011-06-07 22:10:00 Blitzboom_ has joined
3136 2011-06-07 22:10:07 <BlueMatt> yea thought it was something like that
3137 2011-06-07 22:10:12 <lachesis> by limiting keypool size, he limited the amount of time an attacker could hold on to your wallet before using it to attack you
3138 2011-06-07 22:10:17 Joric has joined
3139 2011-06-07 22:10:30 <gmaxwell> lachesis: but anyone who loses a wallet probably has that problem due to address reuse. If you _know_ that you're compromised you'd be stupid to not change wallets.
3140 2011-06-07 22:10:39 dubious has joined
3141 2011-06-07 22:10:43 <lachesis> gmaxwell, yeah, it's for when you don't know you're compromised
3142 2011-06-07 22:10:44 <Joric> is there any way to fix "unable to load cuda module" in rpcminer ?
3143 2011-06-07 22:10:56 <lachesis> address reuse is a mistake, and one that satoshi tried his darnedest to prevent
3144 2011-06-07 22:11:04 <jrmithdobbs> jaromil: #bitcoin-mining
3145 2011-06-07 22:11:07 <jrmithdobbs> errr
3146 2011-06-07 22:11:11 Tarlusk has joined
3147 2011-06-07 22:11:13 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: #bitcoin-mining
3148 2011-06-07 22:11:14 <Joric> k
3149 2011-06-07 22:11:18 <BlueMatt> lachesis: well wallet crypto breaks that a bit...
3150 2011-06-07 22:11:26 <BlueMatt> as keypool is finite in wallet crypter
3151 2011-06-07 22:11:26 <lachesis> BlueMatt, why?
3152 2011-06-07 22:11:30 <gmaxwell> lachesis: look at all the people with published addresses.. and the pools that pay to addresses.. there is a lot of reuse. ::shrugs::
3153 2011-06-07 22:11:34 <BlueMatt> you cant regen at will
3154 2011-06-07 22:11:41 <lachesis> oh? why not?
3155 2011-06-07 22:11:52 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3156 2011-06-07 22:11:53 <BlueMatt> you need pass to be able to encrypt right after gen
3157 2011-06-07 22:12:11 <lachesis> so can the user trigger a regen?
3158 2011-06-07 22:12:18 <BlueMatt> hence why it so aggressively regens keypool
3159 2011-06-07 22:12:22 <BlueMatt> yes you can manually regen
3160 2011-06-07 22:12:25 <lachesis> if i were you, i'd queue regens to wait for the next sendtoaddress
3161 2011-06-07 22:12:31 <lachesis> or similar call that required the pw
3162 2011-06-07 22:12:32 diki has quit ()
3163 2011-06-07 22:12:48 <gmaxwell> lachesis: Encrypted wallet also makes compromise less bad, since fewer users will have an unencrypted wallet file laying around.
3164 2011-06-07 22:12:50 TommyBoy3G has joined
3165 2011-06-07 22:12:51 <BlueMatt> it calls regen in a separate thread each time you enter pass
3166 2011-06-07 22:12:57 <lachesis> gmaxwell, true
3167 2011-06-07 22:13:01 <lachesis> BlueMatt, cool
3168 2011-06-07 22:13:06 <lachesis> is this going in mainline any time soon?
3169 2011-06-07 22:13:09 <fizario> previous block took 24 minutes
3170 2011-06-07 22:13:13 <BlueMatt> 0.4.X
3171 2011-06-07 22:13:16 <lachesis> neat
3172 2011-06-07 22:13:19 linode has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3173 2011-06-07 22:13:22 <BlueMatt> well I need to rebase onto walletclass first
3174 2011-06-07 22:13:25 <lachesis> seems very well thought out and coded - good job
3175 2011-06-07 22:13:30 <BlueMatt> thanks
3176 2011-06-07 22:13:31 bitanarchy has joined
3177 2011-06-07 22:13:46 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: any idea on status of signmessage?
3178 2011-06-07 22:13:47 <gmaxwell> The other problem with the pool and compromises, is that if you know you're compromised you might just hig getnewaddress and then transfer everything to it thinking that would save you.
3179 2011-06-07 22:13:54 <bitanarchy> I was wondering, why are there still only 2 decimals in the bitcoin client?
3180 2011-06-07 22:14:05 <gmaxwell> But it won't because the address would be from the pool.
3181 2011-06-07 22:14:06 <luke-jr> bitanarchy: there aren't.
3182 2011-06-07 22:14:12 <lachesis> wallet-swapping would be nice
3183 2011-06-07 22:14:12 <luke-jr> bitanarchy: that was extended like 2 versions ago
3184 2011-06-07 22:14:33 <fizario> how does the client know if a transaction is unique. does it look at the transaction.hash as a unique key?
3185 2011-06-07 22:14:48 <luke-jr> fizario: every transaction is unique period
3186 2011-06-07 22:15:04 vokoda has joined
3187 2011-06-07 22:15:05 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I think signmsg is targeted for 0.4.X
3188 2011-06-07 22:15:17 <bitanarchy> like-jr ah, ok, so it does support more decimals... it just doesn't show them right now
3189 2011-06-07 22:15:43 <gmaxwell> bitanarchy: hm? it shows more digits now.
3190 2011-06-07 22:15:56 <fizario> luke-jr: you can send the same amount twice from the same address
3191 2011-06-07 22:16:26 <bitanarchy> gmaxwell: I have v0.3.22 and it show 2 decimals on all numbers: balance, transactions
3192 2011-06-07 22:16:39 GarrettB has joined
3193 2011-06-07 22:16:39 GarrettB has quit (Changing host)
3194 2011-06-07 22:16:39 GarrettB has joined
3195 2011-06-07 22:17:01 <gmaxwell> bitanarchy: odd. The cli stuff doesn't do that.
3196 2011-06-07 22:17:02 uppe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3197 2011-06-07 22:17:21 <fizario> im assuming the client checks a table for the tx hash and wont store it if the hash already exists somewhere
3198 2011-06-07 22:17:39 uppe has joined
3199 2011-06-07 22:17:54 <gmaxwell> fizario: the whole txn transfer protocol works by offering the hash and then fetching it if you haven't seen it yet.
3200 2011-06-07 22:18:04 germanMNY has joined
3201 2011-06-07 22:18:14 backwardation25 has joined
3202 2011-06-07 22:19:00 bitanarchy has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
3203 2011-06-07 22:19:16 <fizario> right.. i assume it validates that the sent tx actually references the requested hash
3204 2011-06-07 22:19:37 Archevety has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3205 2011-06-07 22:20:19 <dubious> anyone know how long it takes for mtgox emails to get replied to?
3206 2011-06-07 22:20:29 <luke-jr> fizario: addresses are just keys
3207 2011-06-07 22:20:41 RAM2012 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3208 2011-06-07 22:20:50 <fizario> support requests much include 1 btc
3209 2011-06-07 22:20:57 <fizario> haha j/k.. im sure theyll respond to it some time
3210 2011-06-07 22:22:21 <dubious> fizario: i might consider that if my request would be answered sooner
3211 2011-06-07 22:23:05 <dubious> you know what they say, time is bitcoin
3212 2011-06-07 22:23:16 <fizario> indeed
3213 2011-06-07 22:23:22 <luke-jr> dubious: what's the question?
3214 2011-06-07 22:23:38 <fizario> MagicalTux is on irc sometimes.. and the forums are probably another place to post
3215 2011-06-07 22:24:07 <dubious> luke-jr: i want to increase the maximum withdrawal amount from mtgox
3216 2011-06-07 22:24:29 <dubious> fizario: I messaged him on irc and I'm waiting for a response
3217 2011-06-07 22:24:40 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3218 2011-06-07 22:25:16 devrandom has joined
3219 2011-06-07 22:25:26 <fizario> maybe you can create several accounts, xfer the btc to them onsite, and then withdraw them individually to get over the limit
3220 2011-06-07 22:25:27 <luke-jr> dubious: IIRC you need to send him photo id
3221 2011-06-07 22:26:24 <dubious> good idea
3222 2011-06-07 22:26:54 <dubious> luke-jr: anything else I need to send?
3223 2011-06-07 22:27:21 <x5x> dubious, just email him and wait for a response
3224 2011-06-07 22:27:31 kermit has joined
3225 2011-06-07 22:27:31 kermit has quit (Changing host)
3226 2011-06-07 22:27:32 kermit has joined
3227 2011-06-07 22:27:47 logh_ has joined
3228 2011-06-07 22:27:50 kermit has quit (Client Quit)
3229 2011-06-07 22:28:01 kermit has joined
3230 2011-06-07 22:28:26 <lachesis> is there some reason that there isn't an rpc method to rebroadcast transactions
3231 2011-06-07 22:28:33 <lachesis> besides "no one has done it yet"
3232 2011-06-07 22:28:52 <lachesis> b/c i've done it, but i won't bother to clean it up if it's gonna get rejected
3233 2011-06-07 22:29:12 <dubious> x5x: true, my guess is once I create multiple accounts he will get back to me
3234 2011-06-07 22:29:22 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3235 2011-06-07 22:29:50 <gmaxwell> lachesis: is it called "kick" ? :)
3236 2011-06-07 22:30:21 <lachesis> gmaxwell, lol 'fraid not
3237 2011-06-07 22:30:25 <gmaxwell> lachesis: what does it do if all your current peers have been told about the txn already?
3238 2011-06-07 22:30:34 <lachesis> resends it again
3239 2011-06-07 22:30:44 WakiMiko_ has joined
3240 2011-06-07 22:30:46 <lachesis> let me be more specific
3241 2011-06-07 22:31:01 <lachesis> it resends all of your own transactions (i.e. originated from you) that have 0 conf
3242 2011-06-07 22:31:08 <gmaxwell> lachesis: someone was in #bitcoin earlier with 8 connections, and a txn which wasn't on the broader network. Based on the blockchain status (way behind) I think it sounded like his node was an in isolated clique.
3243 2011-06-07 22:31:25 <lachesis> gmaxwell, huh odd
3244 2011-06-07 22:31:34 <lachesis> i tried to make a "connecttonode" rpc method
3245 2011-06-07 22:31:40 <lachesis> but the connection code tied my head in knots
3246 2011-06-07 22:31:42 <gmaxwell> so. e.g. in that case if all nodes had already been told it should really try to bring up another connection before retransmitting.
3247 2011-06-07 22:31:59 <fizario> std:set hmm
3248 2011-06-07 22:32:06 <lachesis> gmaxwell, my use case is that when i'm travelling around at school and the like
3249 2011-06-07 22:32:09 <lachesis> i often sleep my machine
3250 2011-06-07 22:32:11 [DusT] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3251 2011-06-07 22:32:12 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3252 2011-06-07 22:32:14 <lachesis> and when it comes up, btc has 0 connections
3253 2011-06-07 22:32:18 <lachesis> and doesn't try hard to get any
3254 2011-06-07 22:32:30 <lachesis> so if i send things like that without remembering to restart it first
3255 2011-06-07 22:32:30 <gmaxwell> well it tries hard, but the connect() bug makes it slow. :)
3256 2011-06-07 22:32:35 <lachesis> connect() bug?
3257 2011-06-07 22:32:38 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3258 2011-06-07 22:33:16 <gmaxwell> lachesis: it only tries one connection at a time, and if one times out (e.g. because the network was down) it can take ...foreverish (depends on the OS) to give up on it.
3259 2011-06-07 22:33:31 <lachesis> gmaxwell, you can't set a timeout?
3260 2011-06-07 22:33:46 eternal1 has joined
3261 2011-06-07 22:33:51 <gmaxwell> sipa has a tree with a fix for that, from phantomcircuit. You should use that. It will help. Doesn't replace the usefulness of a retransmit.
3262 2011-06-07 22:33:58 <lachesis> ya
3263 2011-06-07 22:34:15 gwelymernan has joined
3264 2011-06-07 22:34:17 <lachesis> i also want an "AddNode" RPC command
3265 2011-06-07 22:34:30 <gmaxwell> But I think a retransmit that does a bit more than just send it again (e.g. checks to see if everyone has already heard it, which the software already tracks IIRC) and forces a new connection first would be better.
3266 2011-06-07 22:34:40 <fizario> AcceptToMemory
3267 2011-06-07 22:34:49 <gmaxwell> oh god yes. That shouldn't even be hard.
3268 2011-06-07 22:34:49 <lachesis> fizario, eh?
3269 2011-06-07 22:35:04 <lachesis> AcceptToMemory causes a retransmit?
3270 2011-06-07 22:35:10 <andrew12> fuck yeah
3271 2011-06-07 22:35:17 <fizario> oh no.. im referring to something else
3272 2011-06-07 22:35:21 <lachesis> fizario, oh lol
3273 2011-06-07 22:35:21 <lachesis> ok
3274 2011-06-07 22:36:03 * andrew12 has a bitcoin node in ruby that can connect to other nodes
3275 2011-06-07 22:36:15 <lachesis> nifty
3276 2011-06-07 22:36:49 <andrew12> currently all it does is flood all of the info it receives
3277 2011-06-07 22:37:23 <gmaxwell> i dub thee SpammerNode
3278 2011-06-07 22:37:42 <andrew12> i mean it floods my terminal
3279 2011-06-07 22:37:43 simkiss has quit (Quit: simkiss)
3280 2011-06-07 22:37:48 <gmaxwell> oh oh
3281 2011-06-07 22:37:51 <andrew12> stuff like {"magic"=>3652501241, "command"=>"inv\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00", "payload_len"=>73, "checksum"=>2577720586, "payload"=>{"iv_count"=>2, "items"=>[{"type"=>1, "iv_hash"=>"\xF1!\xD2m\xA6\xDE\x83\xEA\xDDr\x06z\x03\xA1\v\xC6\x0E\xC9F\xD1\xB0\xBD\xB4G\xB3].\xC3\x06J'\xB2"}, {"type"=>1, "iv_hash"=>"\xE8+\xDC\x83\xFB\x8D'\xCB\x1C\x8D|:R\xDB\x83\rG\x1Dr\xDC\xD4\x83\x04\xC7Xw\xA5\xAA\xEFR\n\xAB"}]}}
3282 2011-06-07 22:38:09 <andrew12> (yeah, this lib needs a lot of tweaking)
3283 2011-06-07 22:38:19 <gmaxwell> But it does the initial version exchange? good.
3284 2011-06-07 22:38:25 <andrew12> yeah
3285 2011-06-07 22:38:28 <andrew12> that was the hardest part
3286 2011-06-07 22:38:45 <johnnympereira5> quick question with a ubuntu install... when im loading python and development tools i get an error that its unable to locate package libbost-all-dev
3287 2011-06-07 22:39:08 <gmaxwell> I want a copy of that so that I can use it to do the network timestamp sybil attack and fix bitcoin's clock. It looks like network time is something like 3 seconds off from utc. :)
3288 2011-06-07 22:39:40 <johnnympereira5> anyone know what im doing wrong?
3289 2011-06-07 22:40:44 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3290 2011-06-07 22:42:42 justmoon has joined
3291 2011-06-07 22:42:54 <andrew12> hmm
3292 2011-06-07 22:43:01 <andrew12> is the hash in an inv the hash of that tx/block?
3293 2011-06-07 22:43:35 <fizario> yeah
3294 2011-06-07 22:44:05 <andrew12> doesn't look lke it
3295 2011-06-07 22:44:15 backwardation25 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3296 2011-06-07 22:44:19 <andrew12> hmm
3297 2011-06-07 22:44:37 klaku has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3298 2011-06-07 22:45:00 <phantomcircuit> andrew12, hashes are interpreted as little endian by bitcoin
3299 2011-06-07 22:45:15 <phantomcircuit> so they get reversed by certain things
3300 2011-06-07 22:45:25 <andrew12> ahhh that's what it is
3301 2011-06-07 22:45:26 <andrew12> thanks
3302 2011-06-07 22:45:33 <andrew12> i was reading it backwards :P
3303 2011-06-07 22:45:49 anarchyx has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3304 2011-06-07 22:46:58 <andrew12> building the initial version object is really ugly
3305 2011-06-07 22:47:25 <andrew12> http://pastie.org/2034899
3306 2011-06-07 22:50:37 logh_ has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
3307 2011-06-07 22:50:37 <andrew12> (curl is a method that just gets the contents of some url)
3308 2011-06-07 22:50:44 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
3309 2011-06-07 22:51:31 Jere_Jones has joined
3310 2011-06-07 22:51:58 F4C3 has joined
3311 2011-06-07 22:52:38 sshc_ has joined
3312 2011-06-07 22:53:36 bahk has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3313 2011-06-07 22:54:00 lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3314 2011-06-07 22:54:17 <fizario> when is the tx signature verified?
3315 2011-06-07 22:54:25 <BlueMatt> oh...got sooo close to 20
3316 2011-06-07 22:54:29 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,mtgox
3317 2011-06-07 22:54:30 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":20,"low":18.25,"vol":39439,"buy":19.998,"sell":20,"last":19.9999}}
3318 2011-06-07 22:56:40 sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3319 2011-06-07 22:57:13 <johnnympereira5> ;;bc,stats
3320 2011-06-07 22:57:16 backwardation25 has joined
3321 2011-06-07 22:57:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129267 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1772 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 33 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 674328.62776701
3322 2011-06-07 22:58:49 <F4C3> can anyone recommend a good domain registrar
3323 2011-06-07 22:58:57 <F4C3> that doesnt buckle under take down pressure
3324 2011-06-07 22:59:10 <Asphodelia> Tor?
3325 2011-06-07 22:59:20 <F4C3> lol
3326 2011-06-07 22:59:36 <Asphodelia> What's your threat model?
3327 2011-06-07 22:59:44 <F4C3> im talking the difference of godaddy (who takes down sites in a heartbeat) vs the guys TPB uses
3328 2011-06-07 22:59:46 <F4C3> not very high
3329 2011-06-07 23:00:32 eoss has joined
3330 2011-06-07 23:00:47 ZOP has joined
3331 2011-06-07 23:00:54 <iera> F4C3: prq.se
3332 2011-06-07 23:01:01 Breign has quit ()
3333 2011-06-07 23:01:13 <Asphodelia> It looks like TPB's registrar is "Key-Systems GmbH (R51-LROR)"
3334 2011-06-07 23:01:22 <F4C3> nice, thank you iera
3335 2011-06-07 23:02:01 <iera> F4C3: they hosted wikileaks
3336 2011-06-07 23:02:17 <F4C3> well idont need hosting with them
3337 2011-06-07 23:02:23 <F4C3> unless bitcoin becomes illegal in the US
3338 2011-06-07 23:02:29 <F4C3> but i would like my domain over there just in case
3339 2011-06-07 23:03:08 <iera> yeah, cant hurt
3340 2011-06-07 23:03:10 <andrew12> cool. figured out how to get rid of all of the \0 in the command in the object it gives me.
3341 2011-06-07 23:03:15 <andrew12> now it's like {"magic"=>3652501241, "command"=>"verack", "payload_len"=>0, "payload"=>{}}
3342 2011-06-07 23:03:38 <andrew12> should probably hide magic since it's not really important
3343 2011-06-07 23:03:47 LightRider has joined
3344 2011-06-07 23:03:55 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ping
3345 2011-06-07 23:04:19 <tcatm> BlueMatt: pong
3346 2011-06-07 23:04:20 lyspooner has joined
3347 2011-06-07 23:04:40 <BlueMatt> tcatm: whats up with your email, I get conn refused from your mailserver...
3348 2011-06-07 23:04:58 <lyspooner> how should i deal with the client when it says that a transaction hasn't been sent because it is offline despite having 1 connection
3349 2011-06-07 23:04:59 <tcatm> BlueMatt: use nils@nilsschneider.net I have no idea what happened to gawab.com
3350 2011-06-07 23:05:21 <tcatm> lyspooner: leave client open until the network picks it up
3351 2011-06-07 23:05:27 edgarallanpoe has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3352 2011-06-07 23:05:34 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ok, will do next time
3353 2011-06-07 23:06:16 osmosis has joined
3354 2011-06-07 23:06:20 <tcatm> oh well, now at least gawab.com has an explanation message :)
3355 2011-06-07 23:06:43 sethsethseth___ has joined
3356 2011-06-07 23:06:47 * BlueMatt needs to go enable quicker errors on his auth mailserver
3357 2011-06-07 23:07:38 <BlueMatt> a couple days is way too much
3358 2011-06-07 23:08:03 zespri has joined
3359 2011-06-07 23:08:33 sethsethseth___ has left ()
3360 2011-06-07 23:08:56 <tcatm> does anyone know how to contact PLATO (email, phone...)?
3361 2011-06-07 23:10:26 Blitzboom has joined
3362 2011-06-07 23:10:26 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
3363 2011-06-07 23:10:26 Blitzboom has joined
3364 2011-06-07 23:12:28 Blitzboom_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3365 2011-06-07 23:12:28 Hello1024 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3366 2011-06-07 23:12:28 <sipa> he occasionaly joins here
3367 2011-06-07 23:12:42 <BlueMatt> forum pm is probably best afaik
3368 2011-06-07 23:12:43 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: dunno what you said today ...
3369 2011-06-07 23:12:52 <BlueMatt> iirc he also does twitter dms
3370 2011-06-07 23:13:00 <sipa> 21.5 :o
3371 2011-06-07 23:13:11 <BlueMatt> :) :)
3372 2011-06-07 23:13:15 <gmaxwell> sipa: and look at the orderbook: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD/accumulated_orderbook.png
3373 2011-06-07 23:13:29 <BlueMatt> god well the rest of the economy is so undervalued...something has be be over ;)
3374 2011-06-07 23:13:58 <BlueMatt> someone got 5k to burn...go empty orderbook and set the price :)
3375 2011-06-07 23:14:02 <F4C3> almost ready for beta http://i.imgur.com/CXRPu.png
3376 2011-06-07 23:14:47 <fizario> nice F4C3
3377 2011-06-07 23:15:20 <F4C3> thanks
3378 2011-06-07 23:15:27 <sipa> F4C3: looks nice
3379 2011-06-07 23:16:03 <Juffo-Wup> don't forget about darkpool
3380 2011-06-07 23:16:21 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: X is total coins not $. So it would take about 133k to empty the coin from the orderbook. :)
3381 2011-06-07 23:16:22 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3382 2011-06-07 23:17:02 <BlueMatt> oh, damn...
3383 2011-06-07 23:17:06 <BlueMatt> still someone got 100k to burn?
3384 2011-06-07 23:17:15 <gmaxwell> (and move the last to $35.77)
3385 2011-06-07 23:17:21 Tritonio has joined
3386 2011-06-07 23:17:26 <BlueMatt> well then you set ask and set the price :)
3387 2011-06-07 23:17:41 <gmaxwell> Though there are probably dark orders in the way. :)
3388 2011-06-07 23:17:41 <fizario> i think mtgox is doing that under the hood
3389 2011-06-07 23:17:41 <BlueMatt> make the price 100...or 1000
3390 2011-06-07 23:17:55 <gmaxwell> also mtgox doesn't disclose all public orders. Dunno why.
3391 2011-06-07 23:18:11 <BlueMatt> yes they do
3392 2011-06-07 23:18:11 <gmaxwell> I have two open sells of 1 BTC each at $999.99
3393 2011-06-07 23:18:26 <BlueMatt> ok they dont disclose if its that high
3394 2011-06-07 23:18:27 <sipa> only within a reasonable range
3395 2011-06-07 23:18:30 <BlueMatt> if the price goes up it will though
3396 2011-06-07 23:18:37 <gmaxwell> oh actually 1 ant $999.99 and 1 at float_max.
3397 2011-06-07 23:18:44 <gmaxwell> ;)
3398 2011-06-07 23:18:44 <andrew12> hahaha
3399 2011-06-07 23:18:50 <BlueMatt> lol
3400 2011-06-07 23:18:55 <gmaxwell> And they should be shot for using float.
3401 2011-06-07 23:19:14 <fizario> put in an INF order
3402 2011-06-07 23:19:26 <andrew12> lol
3403 2011-06-07 23:19:28 <gmaxwell> I tried that. NaN too.
3404 2011-06-07 23:19:30 <andrew12> buy 1 btc for INF
3405 2011-06-07 23:19:45 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
3406 2011-06-07 23:19:46 <gmaxwell> the form validation kicks the non-finite values.
3407 2011-06-07 23:19:46 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":22,"low":18.25,"vol":45377,"buy":21.0003,"sell":21.0999,"last":21.0999}}
3408 2011-06-07 23:19:50 <JFK911> super
3409 2011-06-07 23:20:21 <mtrlt> duper
3410 2011-06-07 23:20:33 <gmaxwell> I've actually had good luck on the stock market keeping open orders for crazy prices and having them executeâ though I assume due to short pressure.
3411 2011-06-07 23:20:33 <F4C3> heh, jesus, prq.se requires a social security number and a copy of passport just to register a domain
3412 2011-06-07 23:20:52 <iera> F4C3: no, you can also register anonymously
3413 2011-06-07 23:20:59 <gmaxwell> e.g. one time I sold a bunch of SPY at ~2x the market rate. Tax man loved me that year.
3414 2011-06-07 23:21:33 germanMNY has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4)
3415 2011-06-07 23:21:37 <iera> F4C3: its more expensive but still
3416 2011-06-07 23:21:38 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: ?
3417 2011-06-07 23:21:44 <F4C3> ah i see now
3418 2011-06-07 23:21:59 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: referring to the crazy $/BTC prices now.
3419 2011-06-07 23:22:20 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: it broke $21/BTC.
3420 2011-06-07 23:22:37 <BlueMatt> max 22
3421 2011-06-07 23:22:39 sethsethseth___ has joined
3422 2011-06-07 23:22:47 sethsethseth___ has left ()
3423 2011-06-07 23:22:50 Cusipzzz has joined
3424 2011-06-07 23:23:49 <zespri> is it possible to have a zero value transaction?
3425 2011-06-07 23:23:55 ewal has joined
3426 2011-06-07 23:25:26 num1-mac has joined
3427 2011-06-07 23:26:47 <gmaxwell> zespri: yes. If you can get someone to process it.
3428 2011-06-07 23:27:19 <jgarzik> if you pay a fee, you can do a zero-value TX
3429 2011-06-07 23:28:23 <zespri> gmaxwell: what I'm think is this. you have to have coinbase transaction in a block. eventually when all bit coins a generated ocasionally there could be a block with zero transaction fee, thus the coinbase transaction would have to be zero valued....
3430 2011-06-07 23:28:52 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: i love you and cbs right no
3431 2011-06-07 23:28:54 <jrmithdobbs> w
3432 2011-06-07 23:30:15 HEx1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3433 2011-06-07 23:30:51 <vigilyn> so i didn't catch the cbs news clip, did they slam us or were they objective?
3434 2011-06-07 23:31:21 <BlueMatt> that was their objective, but jgarzik rightly made the interviewer look stupid
3435 2011-06-07 23:31:52 <BlueMatt> seemed like she was trying to be objective, but just had not done any research
3436 2011-06-07 23:31:56 <gmaxwell> Someone in #bitcoin restored an older wallet, they seem to have the right balance but don't see an address they created after the backup that had recieved coin.
3437 2011-06-07 23:32:04 <BlueMatt> so was far misinformed
3438 2011-06-07 23:32:24 <gmaxwell> Am I correct in assuming that the pool addresss are just assumed to be change when they're found after the rescan?
3439 2011-06-07 23:32:40 <BlueMatt> iirc yes
3440 2011-06-07 23:32:43 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
3441 2011-06-07 23:32:58 <BlueMatt> they can still receive on that addr though
3442 2011-06-07 23:33:13 <gmaxwell> zespri: it's not actually a problem, have you looked at what a txn consists of? They're more like little programs than balance transfers. :)
3443 2011-06-07 23:34:28 stuhood has joined
3444 2011-06-07 23:34:33 <zespri> gmaxwell: yes I have. trying to get my head around it. zero valued coinbase tranasaction may not be a problem, but does feel a bit silly =)
3445 2011-06-07 23:35:16 <devrandom> volume in the year 2100 will either be zero or very high ;)
3446 2011-06-07 23:35:23 deadmause has joined
3447 2011-06-07 23:35:46 <deadmause> Anyone here who's familiar with pushpool?
3448 2011-06-07 23:35:46 <BlueMatt> very true
3449 2011-06-07 23:36:19 <gmaxwell> I think the sites should switch to BTC/$ ... .0437 sounds more realistic than $22.88
3450 2011-06-07 23:36:29 mtrlt_ has joined
3451 2011-06-07 23:37:27 stuhood has left ()
3452 2011-06-07 23:37:35 <fizario> "Garzik says that they have cooperated with authorities in conjunction with Silk Road and are currently working to distance themselves from the illegal site." <-- what does this mean?
3453 2011-06-07 23:37:56 Astrohacker has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3454 2011-06-07 23:37:58 <jgarzik> I think you have to watch the interview
3455 2011-06-07 23:38:04 <jgarzik> that article is a huge paraphrase
3456 2011-06-07 23:38:30 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
3457 2011-06-07 23:38:42 user102 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3458 2011-06-07 23:38:43 <fizario> yeah it seems like the media is filled with misconceptions
3459 2011-06-07 23:39:11 johnnympereira5 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3460 2011-06-07 23:39:26 <deadmause> No one? :)
3461 2011-06-07 23:40:01 d1234_ has joined
3462 2011-06-07 23:40:14 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3463 2011-06-07 23:40:28 d1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3464 2011-06-07 23:40:35 lyspooner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
3465 2011-06-07 23:40:40 mtrlt_ is now known as mtrlt
3466 2011-06-07 23:42:28 <F4C3> in your opinion, what would be a reasonable monthly price for bitcoind hosting targeted at ecommerce shops, keeping in mind that bitcoind uses a reasonable amount of resources
3467 2011-06-07 23:43:26 Astrohacker has joined
3468 2011-06-07 23:43:29 devon_hillard has joined
3469 2011-06-07 23:43:55 <fizario> $10 / mo
3470 2011-06-07 23:44:00 <fizario> $100 / mo rather
3471 2011-06-07 23:44:39 <F4C3> i would have to agree with something closer to your first one, but if you seriously think that's market value
3472 2011-06-07 23:44:43 johnnympereira5 has joined
3473 2011-06-07 23:45:23 <fizario> yeah.. expertise. most stores dont have the first idea of how to set it up
3474 2011-06-07 23:45:27 <gmaxwell> well.. vps with enough memory to run bitcoind costs more than $10/mo.
3475 2011-06-07 23:45:45 <gmaxwell> Though the resources really aren't that high.
3476 2011-06-07 23:45:54 <F4C3> true, but these guys arent mining
3477 2011-06-07 23:46:24 <F4C3> $25/mo i thought was about the ceiling
3478 2011-06-07 23:46:25 <soap> VPS with GPU?
3479 2011-06-07 23:46:27 <gmaxwell> someone really ought to make a real multi-account bitcoind mode... that only has one copy of the blockchain, does only one validate/connect.. and just totally seperates the accounting data.
3480 2011-06-07 23:46:38 <gmaxwell> Then the cost per customer would be very very low.
3481 2011-06-07 23:46:40 <F4C3> thats the idea
3482 2011-06-07 23:46:45 <F4C3> andim pretty far along
3483 2011-06-07 23:46:55 vokoda has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3484 2011-06-07 23:46:55 <F4C3> sort of
3485 2011-06-07 23:47:14 <justmoon> gmaxwell: I did - http://www.bitcoinjs.org/
3486 2011-06-07 23:47:17 <F4C3> only difference is im working with bitcoind instances for each user, a cached copy of the block chain for new users
3487 2011-06-07 23:47:19 <fizario> i cant even watch this whats trending thing the video is gone
3488 2011-06-07 23:47:41 <gmaxwell> F4C3: you're still doing a bunch of per-user validation work.
3489 2011-06-07 23:47:51 <F4C3> correct
3490 2011-06-07 23:48:05 <justmoon> gmaxwell: though it's less of a "mode" and more of a "complete rewrite" :)
3491 2011-06-07 23:48:09 <gmaxwell> justmoon: cool!
3492 2011-06-07 23:49:15 <F4C3> nice justmoon
3493 2011-06-07 23:50:05 gwelymernan has joined
3494 2011-06-07 23:50:06 <justmoon> don't get too excited, there are still plenty'o'bugs: https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/issues
3495 2011-06-07 23:52:09 <fizario> jeff garzik is the master
3496 2011-06-07 23:52:18 * jgarzik rolls his eyes
3497 2011-06-07 23:52:32 <BlueMatt> lol
3498 2011-06-07 23:52:43 <BlueMatt> mostly true though
3499 2011-06-07 23:52:48 <gmaxwell> The sudden price increase probably isn't a good thing, since it's almost certantly mostly speculation pressure.
3500 2011-06-07 23:53:08 <gmaxwell> And might be locking people who want to do business in btc out of the market somewhat.
3501 2011-06-07 23:53:19 <jgarzik> the order book is very thin at this point.
3502 2011-06-07 23:53:31 <jgarzik> getting into mtgox thin air, where any buying causes a skyrocket
3503 2011-06-07 23:53:35 <gmaxwell> Yea, it'll go to 25 for sure unless more orders open.
3504 2011-06-07 23:54:00 <fizario> if you open your refrigerator and find a banana that's starting to brown or one that just ripened, which do you eat first?
3505 2011-06-07 23:54:08 <gmaxwell> There is enough bid quantity to fully exhaust the visible asks.
3506 2011-06-07 23:54:20 <BlueMatt> ArtForz needs to sell for the good of bitcoin
3507 2011-06-07 23:54:23 <fizario> by the sama analogy, dollars are wilting - you will buy things in dollars before you use gold, silver, bitcoins, etc
3508 2011-06-07 23:54:29 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3509 2011-06-07 23:55:10 <jgarzik> "panic buying"
3510 2011-06-07 23:55:19 <BlueMatt> pretty much
3511 2011-06-07 23:55:44 <BlueMatt> problem is, any given exchange rate is determined by "real value" and relative inflation, of which we have negative so...
3512 2011-06-07 23:55:47 <fizario> 7 days ago there was a spike in google search traffic for bitcoin.. just enough time for mtgox deposits to clear
3513 2011-06-07 23:56:03 <jackmcbarn> since 0.3.22 doesnt run on my machine, im using 0.3.21. is there any reason that 0.3.21 shouldnt be used?
3514 2011-06-07 23:56:14 <BlueMatt> jackmcbarn: what machine?
3515 2011-06-07 23:56:18 <gmaxwell> justmoon: define doesn't run?
3516 2011-06-07 23:56:19 <jgarzik> jackmcbarn: which platform? what doesn't run?
3517 2011-06-07 23:56:21 <jackmcbarn> my ubuntu 8.04 machine
3518 2011-06-07 23:56:44 <BlueMatt> hm, wonder if I can build 0.3.23 on 8.04 and have it work on all later releases
3519 2011-06-07 23:57:00 <jackmcbarn> ./bitcoin: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.11' not found (required by ./bitcoin)
3520 2011-06-07 23:57:00 <jackmcbarn> ./bitcoin: /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by ./bitcoin)
3521 2011-06-07 23:57:05 <jackmcbarn> thats what 0.3.22 gives me
3522 2011-06-07 23:57:12 <BlueMatt> also, jackmcbarn isnt 8.04 desktop deprecated?
3523 2011-06-07 23:57:17 <BlueMatt> 10.04 is latest LTS
3524 2011-06-07 23:57:23 <jackmcbarn> BlueMatt: not until end of the year
3525 2011-06-07 23:57:52 <BlueMatt> jackmcbarn: nope, only server lasts till april 2013, desktop was 12 may
3526 2011-06-07 23:58:35 <BlueMatt> you shouldnt be running an unsupported version of any os
3527 2011-06-07 23:59:14 <jackmcbarn> i couldve sworn it was december 2011
3528 2011-06-07 23:59:16 <jackmcbarn> okay
3529 2011-06-07 23:59:17 <justmoon> gmaxwell: hmm?
3530 2011-06-07 23:59:34 <BlueMatt> 10.04 should be stable by now ;)
3531 2011-06-07 23:59:53 <gmaxwell> justmoon: wrong J autocomple.
3532 2011-06-07 23:59:55 <gmaxwell> er complete.