1 2011-06-08 00:00:01 <justmoon> gmaxwell: gotcha :)
2 2011-06-08 00:00:07 <jackmcbarn> im going to switch to freebsd soon
3 2011-06-08 00:00:10 <fizario> this ridiculous whats trending site doesn't even work
4 2011-06-08 00:00:27 Sylph has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5 2011-06-08 00:01:22 JRWR has joined
6 2011-06-08 00:02:25 jivvz has joined
7 2011-06-08 00:04:36 <BlueMatt> it has begun: www.l.google.com. 300 IN AAAA 2a00:1450:4008:c00::93
8 2011-06-08 00:04:41 <BlueMatt> happy ipv6 day everyone :)
9 2011-06-08 00:05:05 plato has joined
10 2011-06-08 00:05:15 <plato> yo was someone looking for me here
11 2011-06-08 00:05:19 <BlueMatt> tcatm: werent you asking for plato?
12 2011-06-08 00:05:58 <ewal> is this expected behavior? I am trying to make an account "go away". I call getaddressesbyaccount for the account and see 1 address. I call setaccount for that address to switch it to the "" account. I call getaddressesbyaccount again for the should-be-empty-account and I see 1 address still (a different one than before)
13 2011-06-08 00:06:06 <plato> tcatm: probably was
14 2011-06-08 00:06:30 <plato> tcatm = nils?
15 2011-06-08 00:06:34 <plato> ""
16 2011-06-08 00:06:43 <BlueMatt> yes, tcatm==nils
17 2011-06-08 00:06:43 <tcatm> plato: yep, I was looking for you but if your email ends in ..vert.me you should already have an email from cbc :)
18 2011-06-08 00:07:01 <BlueMatt> right?
19 2011-06-08 00:07:11 <plato> yessir
20 2011-06-08 00:07:15 <plato> and call from sgornick
21 2011-06-08 00:07:25 caedes has joined
22 2011-06-08 00:07:29 <tcatm> great. so are you going to do it? :)
23 2011-06-08 00:07:29 * plato reviews the PR thread again
24 2011-06-08 00:07:32 caedes has quit (Changing host)
25 2011-06-08 00:07:32 caedes has joined
26 2011-06-08 00:07:32 <plato> hell yes
27 2011-06-08 00:07:37 <BlueMatt> site #2: www.facebook.com. 30 IN AAAA 2620:0:1c00:0:face:b00c:0:1
28 2011-06-08 00:07:44 <tcatm> :)
29 2011-06-08 00:07:46 <BlueMatt> IPv6 ftw
30 2011-06-08 00:07:57 <lizthegrey> yay.
31 2011-06-08 00:07:59 <lizthegrey> elizabeth@violet:~$ ping6 www.google.com
32 2011-06-08 00:08:00 <lizthegrey> PING www.google.com(iad04s01-in-x67.1e100.net) 56 data bytes
33 2011-06-08 00:08:00 <lizthegrey> 64 bytes from iad04s01-in-x67.1e100.net: icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=23.0 ms
34 2011-06-08 00:08:09 RenaKunisaki has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
35 2011-06-08 00:08:19 <Dagger2> is it actually /reachable/ this time?
36 2011-06-08 00:08:24 <BlueMatt> though I have my dnsserver on google ipv6 beta so Ive been using google +youtube over ipv6 for a while
37 2011-06-08 00:08:50 <BlueMatt> ping6 www.facebook.com
38 2011-06-08 00:08:51 <BlueMatt> PING www.facebook.com(www-ipv6-11-01-snc2.facebook.com) 56 data bytes
39 2011-06-08 00:08:51 <BlueMatt> 64 bytes from www-ipv6-11-01-snc2.facebook.com: icmp_seq=1 ttl=41 time=346 ms
40 2011-06-08 00:09:30 keinplan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
41 2011-06-08 00:09:35 <Dagger2> yeah, it was pingable 40 minutes ago too, but the site was inaccessible
42 2011-06-08 00:09:40 <tcatm> I wish chrome would tell me whether it's using ipv6 or ipv4
43 2011-06-08 00:09:42 <BlueMatt> for those poor souls in tech support...I feel for you over the next couple days...
44 2011-06-08 00:09:51 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ifconfig if del ipv4 :)
45 2011-06-08 00:10:05 <plato> whoa facebook is unreachable?
46 2011-06-08 00:10:09 <plato> ouch
47 2011-06-08 00:10:25 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
48 2011-06-08 00:10:28 <plato> how would you code a decentralized social network
49 2011-06-08 00:10:39 <BlueMatt> there is one
50 2011-06-08 00:10:41 AStove has quit ()
51 2011-06-08 00:10:49 <plato> what, diaspora
52 2011-06-08 00:10:49 <Dagger2> inaccessible over v6 anyway, presumably it was still available over v4
53 2011-06-08 00:10:50 <BlueMatt> got a ton of funding and such
54 2011-06-08 00:10:58 <plato> mondonet
55 2011-06-08 00:11:03 <tcatm> the internet already is a pretty decentral social net
56 2011-06-08 00:11:17 <plato> tcatm: except for Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner...
57 2011-06-08 00:11:30 <plato> see also Narus Insight
58 2011-06-08 00:11:35 * plato waves to Narus
59 2011-06-08 00:11:37 <tcatm> you just have to keep track of your friends yourself :)
60 2011-06-08 00:12:01 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
61 2011-06-08 00:12:05 <davex__> question; if I want to donate bitcoins to a charity, is that equivalent for tax purposes to donating stock?
62 2011-06-08 00:12:06 theorbtwo has joined
63 2011-06-08 00:12:07 <BlueMatt> no www.facebook.com is reachable over ipv6 here
64 2011-06-08 00:12:14 <davex__> in the US
65 2011-06-08 00:12:14 <BlueMatt> wget -6 --user-agent "" www.facebook.com
66 2011-06-08 00:12:15 <BlueMatt> works fine
67 2011-06-08 00:12:19 deadmause has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
68 2011-06-08 00:12:32 <davex__> actually i'll just ask on forum
69 2011-06-08 00:12:43 <Dagger2> yeah, it does now that they've fixed it
70 2011-06-08 00:13:03 <Dagger2> they added the AAAA ~45 minutes ago as well, and it was inaccessible then
71 2011-06-08 00:13:41 <BlueMatt> facebook.com otoh has no ipv6
72 2011-06-08 00:14:12 <BlueMatt> lol
73 2011-06-08 00:14:44 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|Sleep
74 2011-06-08 00:17:53 Zarutian has joined
75 2011-06-08 00:19:50 <BlueMatt> a152.dsw1.akamai.net. 20 IN AAAA 2001:450:2002:320::40d1:4d0b
76 2011-06-08 00:19:51 <BlueMatt> :)
77 2011-06-08 00:19:56 <JFK911> www.v6.facebook.com has IPv6 address 2620:0:1cfe:face:b00c::3
78 2011-06-08 00:20:01 <JFK911> sup BlueMatt ^^
79 2011-06-08 00:20:22 <BlueMatt> :)
80 2011-06-08 00:21:01 <BlueMatt> www.yahoo.com too :)
81 2011-06-08 00:21:03 Zarutian has quit (Client Quit)
82 2011-06-08 00:21:05 <gmaxwell> acording to the bitcoinwatch estimates deepbit is at 48%...
83 2011-06-08 00:21:25 <gmaxwell> since people are reporting slush is down, my bet is that deebit crosses 50% again shortly.
84 2011-06-08 00:21:36 Asphodelia has left ()
85 2011-06-08 00:21:37 <BlueMatt> well it looks like all the registered participants have ipv6 light up :) :)
86 2011-06-08 00:21:41 <BlueMatt> or the major ones
87 2011-06-08 00:22:11 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: i like how google spits back 10 ipv4 and one ipv6
88 2011-06-08 00:22:18 <jrmithdobbs> wtf
89 2011-06-08 00:22:26 <BlueMatt> meh, most browsers will still default to the one ipv6
90 2011-06-08 00:23:19 <slush> gmaxwell: down is just website, working on it
91 2011-06-08 00:24:42 NOTAL has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
92 2011-06-08 00:25:12 <luke-jr> slush: hey, you're alive! :P
93 2011-06-08 00:25:27 Zarutian has joined
94 2011-06-08 00:26:00 <lizthegrey> I'm going to re-mention: 50% is not the critical threshold
95 2011-06-08 00:26:05 <lizthegrey> 30%-40% is sufficient.
96 2011-06-08 00:26:27 <lizthegrey> I saw the research that people in my class did on forking test block chains
97 2011-06-08 00:26:45 <gmaxwell> With the current exchange rate the bitcoin client now has a higher "minimum transaction" than paypal. :)
98 2011-06-08 00:26:54 <jrmithdobbs> haha ya
99 2011-06-08 00:26:58 <lizthegrey> with 40% of the network you can fork within 6 hours iirc.
100 2011-06-08 00:27:00 <enki> rofl
101 2011-06-08 00:27:13 <lizthegrey> even with 30% you can fork within a day or two
102 2011-06-08 00:27:35 <BlueMatt> lizthegrey: do you know anything about probability?
103 2011-06-08 00:27:54 <lizthegrey> bluematt: yes I do indeed.
104 2011-06-08 00:28:01 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: i think the time has come to re-eval the min tx limits in place .... again
105 2011-06-08 00:28:04 <jrmithdobbs> haha
106 2011-06-08 00:28:11 <BlueMatt> then Im assuming you need to redefine fork the chain in a clear way
107 2011-06-08 00:28:18 dr_win_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
108 2011-06-08 00:28:26 <BlueMatt> fork as in make 2 blocks before net does off current block
109 2011-06-08 00:28:33 <BlueMatt> or as in off block set at start
110 2011-06-08 00:28:49 <lizthegrey> they don't mean fork from root
111 2011-06-08 00:28:52 <BlueMatt> and then you need to define more than "you can after a day" to "you have x% chance of forking"
112 2011-06-08 00:29:17 <gmaxwell> It's important to talk in terms of forking to what depth...
113 2011-06-08 00:29:18 <BlueMatt> also, read the paper, it gives all the percentages of undo block x depth y
114 2011-06-08 00:29:22 <BlueMatt> as that is all thats important
115 2011-06-08 00:29:26 <lizthegrey> their presentation stated that they succeeded in forking starting from the current block and overtaking the non-corrupted network by finding 2 blocks to their 1.
116 2011-06-08 00:29:31 <BlueMatt> as you will want to target a certain tx
117 2011-06-08 00:29:35 <gmaxwell> if someone has 6 confirms ... you're sure as hell not going to reverse that without >50%
118 2011-06-08 00:29:36 <lizthegrey> (this is not my research, this is another group)
119 2011-06-08 00:29:56 <gmaxwell> A single depth fork is totally uninteresting they happen by chance all the time.
120 2011-06-08 00:29:56 <BlueMatt> that doesnt corrupt the network
121 2011-06-08 00:30:06 <lizthegrey> yeah, 6 confirms is still not feasible with any reasonable probability
122 2011-06-08 00:30:08 <BlueMatt> they have no reason to attack on current block
123 2011-06-08 00:30:16 <BlueMatt> they have reason to attack bock x
124 2011-06-08 00:30:21 Sylph has joined
125 2011-06-08 00:30:24 <lizthegrey> okay, attack starting from one block back.
126 2011-06-08 00:30:38 <gmaxwell> They'd have reason to attack x back where X depends on reciever policy. And x is often 6 because thats how the client behaves.
127 2011-06-08 00:30:43 <BlueMatt> well yea, you can do a fork like that with a fairly small percent after a while
128 2011-06-08 00:30:46 <lizthegrey> I'm curious whether they'd be willing to post their paper to the bitcoin forums.
129 2011-06-08 00:30:50 <BlueMatt> as block gen has stddev of diff
130 2011-06-08 00:31:05 <iera> lizthegrey: yeah post it
131 2011-06-08 00:31:07 <fizario> silk road is just representative of the world at large.. dollars are used to buy illicit drugs, bitcoins too.. that shouldnt be surprising
132 2011-06-08 00:31:11 <gmaxwell> Yes, 1 block back you can fork without any hash power at all.. just put out conflicting transactions on the network and hope a natural fork gets you what you want.
133 2011-06-08 00:31:30 <BlueMatt> lizthegrey: as long as its clear that their attack is pretty much worthless, as otherwise it will freak people out
134 2011-06-08 00:31:53 <BlueMatt> and it will still freak people out
135 2011-06-08 00:32:25 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: there will be a rise of low credential academics attacking bitcoin with crap arguments sooner or later. The academic enviroment has so much pressure to do "new" and "exciting" things that worthless attacks will be published.
136 2011-06-08 00:32:35 <lizthegrey> they didn't state the probabilities involved, just that they succeeded in their experiment (even with the weak goal) after N hours with 30% dishonest power.
137 2011-06-08 00:32:37 <BlueMatt> yep
138 2011-06-08 00:32:45 <lizthegrey> so yes, it would be good to see actual probabilities from them.
139 2011-06-08 00:32:47 brunner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
140 2011-06-08 00:32:49 <andrew12> why does the bitcoin protocol have to make so little sense...
141 2011-06-08 00:32:53 <BlueMatt> lizthegrey: as the probability pretty clearly allows for
142 2011-06-08 00:33:12 <gmaxwell> There was one academic panning bitcoin that someone linked from here a few days ago.. all the guys publications were in conferences that publish from anyone who pays the feeâ¦
143 2011-06-08 00:33:48 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: the ivory tower is collapsing thanks to that pressure too
144 2011-06-08 00:33:49 <jrmithdobbs> heh
145 2011-06-08 00:34:04 <andrew12> specifically var_int and var_str
146 2011-06-08 00:34:10 <BlueMatt> oh well, Im getting off...just wanted to stay up to see the ipv6 light up :)
147 2011-06-08 00:34:21 <jrmithdobbs> andrew12: the protocol makes lots of sense
148 2011-06-08 00:34:31 dedeibel has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
149 2011-06-08 00:35:11 <jrmithdobbs> andrew12: except for the broadcast to all portion the issues lie outside of the protocol
150 2011-06-08 00:35:31 <andrew12> then why the hell can't i figure checksums out
151 2011-06-08 00:35:41 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
152 2011-06-08 00:41:14 backwardation25 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
153 2011-06-08 00:43:11 <forrestv> andrew12, message checksums? they seemed rather simple to me ...
154 2011-06-08 00:43:17 <forrestv> last 4 bytes of sha256(payload)
155 2011-06-08 00:43:22 <andrew12> it was a stupid mistake
156 2011-06-08 00:43:34 amiller_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
157 2011-06-08 00:43:44 <andrew12> my double_sha256 method only did it once.
158 2011-06-08 00:43:45 <andrew12> :p
159 2011-06-08 00:43:57 <forrestv> oh
160 2011-06-08 00:44:00 <forrestv> yeah, double sha
161 2011-06-08 00:44:58 <gmaxwell> oh, thats double sha?
162 2011-06-08 00:45:09 <gmaxwell> I hadn't noticed that.
163 2011-06-08 00:45:59 <plato> doesn't the first sha256 happen only some of the time
164 2011-06-08 00:46:14 <plato> e.g. you hash the current tx list, then get it again in like a minute
165 2011-06-08 00:46:18 <plato> but use that same hash in between
166 2011-06-08 00:46:51 <forrestv> plato, uh, you're talking about block hashing
167 2011-06-08 00:46:51 <jgarzik> CBS interview posted: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504943_162-20069780-10391715.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody
168 2011-06-08 00:47:03 <plato> oh i suppose i didn't read scrollback
169 2011-06-08 00:47:04 <plato> sick
170 2011-06-08 00:47:18 <plato> my question stands
171 2011-06-08 00:47:22 quellhorst has joined
172 2011-06-08 00:47:23 <BlueMatt> cbs whats hot, is it on tv too jgarzik?
173 2011-06-08 00:47:27 <BlueMatt> or just internets
174 2011-06-08 00:47:28 <gmaxwell> Can someone pull a flv link out of that?
175 2011-06-08 00:47:32 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: dunno
176 2011-06-08 00:48:05 <gmaxwell> ah
177 2011-06-08 00:48:06 <gmaxwell> http://media.cbsnews.com/video/627455/cbsnews_2011-06-07-180555.1100.mp4
178 2011-06-08 00:48:23 <JFK911> jgarzik: how did "they" cooperate with authorities? education? giving the secret backdoor that exposes everyone?
179 2011-06-08 00:48:46 <JFK911> im wondering how the government is going to attack that website
180 2011-06-08 00:48:53 <plato> didn't you hear
181 2011-06-08 00:49:02 <plato> they're going to take down the domain name
182 2011-06-08 00:49:04 <jgarzik> the only backdoor given to authorities was the one on MadHatter's porn website
183 2011-06-08 00:49:05 <plato> whee
184 2011-06-08 00:49:19 <JFK911> jgarzik: requesting url
185 2011-06-08 00:49:30 <JFK911> plato: oh thats smart
186 2011-06-08 00:49:31 <JFK911> ok
187 2011-06-08 00:49:45 <BlueMatt> hmmm...dont think it goes on tv
188 2011-06-08 00:49:51 <BlueMatt> shame
189 2011-06-08 00:49:53 <plato> JFK911: that's what senator charles schumer said
190 2011-06-08 00:50:16 <lizthegrey> they can probably get enough moles onto the site and set up enough stings
191 2011-06-08 00:50:21 <lizthegrey> to discredit the site
192 2011-06-08 00:50:29 <plato> sure
193 2011-06-08 00:50:34 <plato> it needs a web of trust
194 2011-06-08 00:50:35 <lizthegrey> if they were careful with covering their tracks the site operators probably won't get caught
195 2011-06-08 00:50:54 <plato> yeah about a month and a half back the silk road thread was discussing how to make it unfindable
196 2011-06-08 00:51:03 <plato> hope for his sake he took the necessary precautions
197 2011-06-08 00:51:07 <lizthegrey> but at the end of the day, it also might be possible that they have a programming bug that would allow the host to be compromised.
198 2011-06-08 00:51:08 <gmaxwell> Tor hidden services aren't _that_ hard to track down either. Not for anyone that can issue wiretaps.
199 2011-06-08 00:51:24 <plato> yeah i'm not too hopeful
200 2011-06-08 00:51:28 <plato> i think they're goin down
201 2011-06-08 00:51:31 <BlueMatt> they dont have that much time to spend on silk road
202 2011-06-08 00:51:44 <plato> they have infinite time and infinite money! don't you read the news!?
203 2011-06-08 00:51:45 <JFK911> yeah it will probably get attacked via moles and spies
204 2011-06-08 00:51:56 <BlueMatt> lol to plato
205 2011-06-08 00:51:59 <plato> afk
206 2011-06-08 00:52:06 <plato> BlueMatt: did you ever use the pics of my car
207 2011-06-08 00:52:09 <plato> i can take more
208 2011-06-08 00:52:11 <plato> i have vinyls now
209 2011-06-08 00:52:13 <BlueMatt> use for what?
210 2011-06-08 00:52:27 <BlueMatt> I know I wanted to see them at some point, but I dont think I ever asked to be able to use them
211 2011-06-08 00:52:30 <plato> maybe that was someone else
212 2011-06-08 00:52:35 <BlueMatt> think it was someone else
213 2011-06-08 00:53:08 <luke-jr> "Online currency caches, such as PayPal, are beginning to accept the online coinage."
214 2011-06-08 00:53:10 <luke-jr> what?
215 2011-06-08 00:53:24 <BlueMatt> I wish
216 2011-06-08 00:53:30 <BlueMatt> what shitty "news" site said that?
217 2011-06-08 00:53:56 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
218 2011-06-08 00:54:36 stuhood has joined
219 2011-06-08 00:54:41 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: the one jgarzik just linked
220 2011-06-08 00:54:57 <BlueMatt> oh lol their write up was terrible
221 2011-06-08 00:55:43 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
222 2011-06-08 00:55:45 <jgarzik> yeah it really was
223 2011-06-08 00:56:21 sgornick has joined
224 2011-06-08 00:57:06 plato has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
225 2011-06-08 00:57:14 <BlueMatt> ok now Im finally really getting off
226 2011-06-08 00:57:17 subpar has joined
227 2011-06-08 00:57:18 <BlueMatt> gnight all
228 2011-06-08 01:01:02 brime_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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237 2011-06-08 01:05:29 <luke-jr> jgarzik: well, you did kinda say PayPal at least had plans at the end there
238 2011-06-08 01:05:40 <luke-jr> probably should have kept it generic :p
239 2011-06-08 01:06:39 backwardation25 has joined
240 2011-06-08 01:08:07 NOTAL has joined
241 2011-06-08 01:08:15 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I thought I was clear in the video that I was talking about some imagined, distant future when bitcoin is successful
242 2011-06-08 01:08:22 <jgarzik> but maybe not
243 2011-06-08 01:08:35 <luke-jr> jgarzik: to me, it's clear; but not necessarily to the public
244 2011-06-08 01:08:51 <jgarzik> fair enough
245 2011-06-08 01:09:01 <luke-jr> to someone who has no idea the present situations with PayPal, it probably sounds like they have actual plans
246 2011-06-08 01:09:41 <gmaxwell> I thought it was clear enough in the video fwiw.
247 2011-06-08 01:09:58 <lizthegrey> agreed, it seemed to be fairly clear.
248 2011-06-08 01:10:11 <luke-jr> even if you had no background on PayPal?
249 2011-06-08 01:11:25 anarchyx has joined
250 2011-06-08 01:12:02 <anarchyx> is there a schedule for adding extra decimals beyond the comma soon?
251 2011-06-08 01:12:56 <jgarzik> anarchyx: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10049.0
252 2011-06-08 01:13:08 <anarchyx> tnx :)
253 2011-06-08 01:13:09 <luke-jr> anarchyx: there is no commaâ¦
254 2011-06-08 01:13:40 <luke-jr> jgarzik: where did that come from/
255 2011-06-08 01:14:07 <T_X> hi guys, I'm having some trouble compiling bitcoin again :(
256 2011-06-08 01:14:07 <T_X> http://pastebin.com/3Br9VtU6
257 2011-06-08 01:14:24 <T_X> I'm having libboost 1.42 installed, from debian sid
258 2011-06-08 01:15:18 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: ya he pretty clearly said "in the future paypal and credit cards will be denominated in bitcoin"
259 2011-06-08 01:18:41 Optimo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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261 2011-06-08 01:19:09 NOTAL has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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265 2011-06-08 01:20:53 <anarchyx> when storing coins on a usb stick is it better to transfer 10 times 1BTC instead of 10BTC? so if something goes wrong you only loose 1BTC instead of all 10?
266 2011-06-08 01:21:11 <anarchyx> in your wallet.dat
267 2011-06-08 01:21:40 <luke-jr> anarchyx: that makes no sense
268 2011-06-08 01:21:48 <Graet> unless it waits till the 9th is tere then fails
269 2011-06-08 01:21:57 darkmethod has joined
270 2011-06-08 01:22:11 <ajvpot> can someone help me out with the rpcallowip config option for bitcoind? it doesnt seem to be doing anything, no matter what i change it to, even *
271 2011-06-08 01:22:25 fckStick has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
272 2011-06-08 01:22:34 <ajvpot> right now i have "rpcallowip=64.22.89.70
273 2011-06-08 01:22:34 <ajvpot> " and 64.22.89.70
274 2011-06-08 01:22:34 <ajvpot> cant access it
275 2011-06-08 01:23:09 <ajvpot> heres my entire config: http://pastebin.com/FGDyCj2K
276 2011-06-08 01:23:49 <anarchyx> luke-jr: well lets say i store my wallet.dat at 3 different places - and at one point i transfer away some money.. if i received it in 10 different transactions originally only 1 of those 10 will be unusable on the other 2 places no?
277 2011-06-08 01:24:19 * ajvpot is confused
278 2011-06-08 01:24:29 <luke-jr> anarchyx: ⦠don't do that
279 2011-06-08 01:24:53 <anarchyx> ok
280 2011-06-08 01:25:08 amiller_ has joined
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283 2011-06-08 01:26:10 Optimo has joined
284 2011-06-08 01:27:18 <dubious> anyone know what mh means?
285 2011-06-08 01:28:35 <andrew12> megahashes
286 2011-06-08 01:28:54 <andrew12> 1000khashes/s = 1 mhash/s
287 2011-06-08 01:30:45 mercora has joined
288 2011-06-08 01:31:04 <dubious> ah nm it was a typo
289 2011-06-08 01:31:06 WakiMiko_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
290 2011-06-08 01:31:50 <mercora> hello there ;) could i use pushpool to relay traffic to another pushpool ? so let my clients connect to a local instance and let pushpool be connected to another instance ?
291 2011-06-08 01:32:56 <mercora> or is there a smarter way to setuo this ?
292 2011-06-08 01:32:57 <iz> mercora: i don't think it would work the way you want it to.. but.. why would you want to do that?
293 2011-06-08 01:34:02 <T_X> and that's the error I'm getting when trying to build bitcoin with libboost 1.46 instead of 1.42: http://pastebin.com/89XycqMv
294 2011-06-08 01:34:40 normanrichards has joined
295 2011-06-08 01:35:19 <iz> ajvpot: did you restart bitcoind since you made changes to the config?
296 2011-06-08 01:35:25 <mercora> iz: seperate networks ... the clients should not have internet acces also i hoped do gather more statiscal information....
297 2011-06-08 01:35:42 lachesis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
298 2011-06-08 01:36:00 <iz> mercora: you can use a simple http proxy
299 2011-06-08 01:36:27 WakiMiko has joined
300 2011-06-08 01:36:43 <mercora> but then again they would be connected more or less directly with the internet
301 2011-06-08 01:37:16 <iz> how would it work otherwise?
302 2011-06-08 01:38:04 <iz> your local instance would have to have internet access also.. i'm saying run a http proxy on that machine instead of pushpool
303 2011-06-08 01:38:46 <mercora> hmm
304 2011-06-08 01:38:57 <mercora> youre right may its a bit pointless
305 2011-06-08 01:39:13 Netsniper has quit (Quit: Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. -Emma Goldman)
306 2011-06-08 01:39:19 <iz> also, if you want to gather more stats, you can do that w/ the http proxy, by looking at the traffic it's proxying
307 2011-06-08 01:39:38 Netsniper has joined
308 2011-06-08 01:40:13 <mercora> but doing that means parsing all the rpc stuff and write a to a databse ... i thought pushpool would already doing that ;P
309 2011-06-08 01:41:16 <T_X> yaiy, got it compiled now! (http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=328391#c26 helped me, needed to add that to the CXXFLAGS)
310 2011-06-08 01:41:20 johnnympereira5 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
311 2011-06-08 01:41:33 <T_X> haha, but it segfaults now!
312 2011-06-08 01:42:05 <iz> mercora: pushpool does more than just that.. the requests it makes of the miners are just difficulty 1 shares (i think)
313 2011-06-08 01:42:34 <iz> so i don't think stacking them would really result in the functionality you are expecting anyway
314 2011-06-08 01:43:42 <mercora> hmm ok so may i could reuse the code to some extent and write a plugin for nginx
315 2011-06-08 01:44:26 xelister has joined
316 2011-06-08 01:44:48 <xelister> Ubuntu
317 2011-06-08 01:44:54 <xelister> and Ati
318 2011-06-08 01:44:58 <mercora> iz: thanks ;) hope it saved me some time ^^
319 2011-06-08 01:45:02 <xelister> sitting in the tree, sucking huge dong
320 2011-06-08 01:45:15 <iz> mercora: tbqh, i think it would be easier to start w/ a http proxy and modify it to watch the traffic.. it's all unencrypted and json, so it's easy
321 2011-06-08 01:45:20 <xelister> !*$(!!$@~! ubuntu stops amd binary drivers from working after update
322 2011-06-08 01:45:33 <xelister> works for you or is it just me
323 2011-06-08 01:45:44 <luke-jr> mercora: there's a bitcoin mining proxy out there
324 2011-06-08 01:45:46 <luke-jr> by SerajewelKS
325 2011-06-08 01:46:00 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
326 2011-06-08 01:46:31 Sylph has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
327 2011-06-08 01:48:03 <mercora> luke-jr: ah! ok i will look into that
328 2011-06-08 01:48:39 dubious is now known as dubious_
329 2011-06-08 01:48:59 x6763 has joined
330 2011-06-08 01:49:16 <mercora> hmm php ....
331 2011-06-08 01:49:45 <dubious_> yeah can someone help me with php signing?
332 2011-06-08 01:50:15 <anarchyx> so if i backup my wallet.dat on another computer, and i do some transactions, then suddenly i loose all my data, the wallet.dat backup will automtically deduct the transactions thats been made somewhere else when put online?
333 2011-06-08 01:50:30 gsathya has joined
334 2011-06-08 01:50:37 <mtrlt> anarchyx: the wallet contains the keys to use the money inside specific addresses
335 2011-06-08 01:50:38 <luke-jr> anarchyx: it might deduct more than what you sent
336 2011-06-08 01:50:43 <mtrlt> anarchyx: the wallet does not contain money
337 2011-06-08 01:51:26 <btc4beer> The wallet is your key to determining how many coins you have access to.
338 2011-06-08 01:51:39 <anarchyx> luke-jr: like a lot more? 100s?
339 2011-06-08 01:51:56 <anarchyx> this wallet thing is not very clear to me
340 2011-06-08 01:52:08 <btc4beer> it's your crypto key.
341 2011-06-08 01:52:09 <luke-jr> anarchyx: depends on what coins you had
342 2011-06-08 01:53:00 <anarchyx> luke-jr: lets say i had 1000 BTC on the wallet.dat backup and i sent like 10 BTC in the meanwhile before i lost my data
343 2011-06-08 01:53:27 <iz> anarchyx: the wallet has many accounts in it.. and your balance is a total of all the accounts.. every time you make a transaction, it uses a different address in your wallet
344 2011-06-08 01:53:31 <luke-jr> anarchyx: depends on that 1000 BTC
345 2011-06-08 01:53:41 <luke-jr> iz: addresses aren't accounts
346 2011-06-08 01:53:51 <iz> oh yeah.. i mean addresses
347 2011-06-08 01:54:04 <iz> or.. think of each address as a bank account..
348 2011-06-08 01:54:06 stuhood has left ()
349 2011-06-08 01:54:11 <luke-jr> ⦠or don't
350 2011-06-08 01:54:14 <anarchyx> luke-jr: so when i said earlier that it might be better to transfer 100 times 10 BTC into the client before i make a backup, it was true? or it doesnt matter if i transfer 1000BTC to the client, then back it up?
351 2011-06-08 01:54:15 <iz> heh
352 2011-06-08 01:54:24 <gmaxwell> addresses aren't like bank accounts really.
353 2011-06-08 01:54:35 <iz> well you can have multiple accounts at a single bank
354 2011-06-08 01:54:36 Hardwarez has joined
355 2011-06-08 01:54:45 <anarchyx> (transfer 1000BTC at once i mean)
356 2011-06-08 01:54:47 XX01XX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
357 2011-06-08 01:54:48 <luke-jr> addresses are like safety deposit boxes :P
358 2011-06-08 01:54:52 <iz> and you just need the account numbers to access them
359 2011-06-08 01:54:54 <gmaxwell> they're like pockets that coins (input transactions) go into
360 2011-06-08 01:54:59 <btc4beer> they aren't like anything :P
361 2011-06-08 01:55:02 <iz> haha
362 2011-06-08 01:55:10 <luke-jr> wallet is like KEYS to safe deposit boxes :P
363 2011-06-08 01:55:10 Tick-Tock has joined
364 2011-06-08 01:55:10 <mercora> i thin i will stick with idea building it on top of nginx it already has the possibility to connect to a database i also saw it can output database queries as json formated so maybe also read them in but this wouldnt be the bigest problem and not at least it has a pretty solid http implementation which performance very well ^^
365 2011-06-08 01:55:21 <btc4beer> the block is everyone's safe deposit box
366 2011-06-08 01:55:26 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: thats good.
367 2011-06-08 01:55:31 <btc4beer> the wallet is your key to your part of it, if you have a part of it.
368 2011-06-08 01:55:50 <iz> oh yeah, KEYS is way better for an analogy
369 2011-06-08 01:55:51 <btc4beer> and yet even that falls short.
370 2011-06-08 01:55:56 <btc4beer> damn analogies. ;)
371 2011-06-08 01:56:23 <luke-jr> inside the safe deposit box are silver COINS of varying value
372 2011-06-08 01:56:31 <luke-jr> you could have just a single 1 BTC coin
373 2011-06-08 01:56:33 <iz> anarchyx: so the wallet has 100 pregenerated addresses
374 2011-06-08 01:56:40 <luke-jr> or you could have 100x 0.01 BTC coins
375 2011-06-08 01:56:51 <iz> the main thing that will get out of sync between backups will be newly generated addresses
376 2011-06-08 01:57:13 kakaken_ has joined
377 2011-06-08 01:57:18 <luke-jr> if you have only a single 1 BTC coin, and you want to send someone 0.01 BTC
378 2011-06-08 01:57:30 <luke-jr> you use your key to take the 1 BTC coin out of the safe deposit box
379 2011-06-08 01:57:39 <luke-jr> you then melt it down, and produce two new coins: 0.99 BTC and 0.01 BTC
380 2011-06-08 01:57:57 <luke-jr> you then put that 0.99 BTC coin into a *new* safe deposit box, and save that *new* key in your wallet
381 2011-06-08 01:58:02 <gmaxwell> Yep I use the reforging model in my examples too.
382 2011-06-08 01:58:12 <luke-jr> and put the 0.01 BTC coin into your friend's safe deposit box
383 2011-06-08 01:58:38 <anarchyx> so you invalidate the old key?
384 2011-06-08 01:58:41 <luke-jr> the only safety for backups, is that the "new" safe deposit box and key has a 100 box/key buffer
385 2011-06-08 01:58:52 <gmaxwell> anarchyx: nope the box just sits around unused. and you keep the keys.
386 2011-06-08 01:58:54 <luke-jr> anarchyx: no, it's still valid, but the clients today never use it for change
387 2011-06-08 01:59:07 <luke-jr> anarchyx: you COULD create a client that puts your 0.99 BTC change back in the same box
388 2011-06-08 01:59:16 NOTAL has joined
389 2011-06-08 01:59:20 <luke-jr> or splits it 5 ways and puts all but one back in the same box
390 2011-06-08 01:59:55 <btc4beer> but since nothing is tying you to the old box, it's probably added security to keep using new addresses
391 2011-06-08 02:00:06 <gmaxwell> or always takes all your coins and takes out the TXN and merges them all into one BIG coin.. for every send you do.
392 2011-06-08 02:00:10 <luke-jr> btc4beer: it's also added risk, for backups
393 2011-06-08 02:00:14 <btc4beer> unfortunately.
394 2011-06-08 02:00:26 <luke-jr> IMO, someone *should* create a client that never creates new keys without you explicitly asking it to
395 2011-06-08 02:00:28 kakaken has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
396 2011-06-08 02:00:28 kakaken_ is now known as kakaken
397 2011-06-08 02:00:37 <gmaxwell> The software could also generate all box keys using a master-skeleton so you wouldn't get the backup liablity. I'd like it to change to doing this.
398 2011-06-08 02:01:16 <iz> anarchyx: however.. let's say you have an old backup of your wallet.dat.. and then you do like 101 transactions.. the change from that last transaction might go to a newly generated address that isn't in the backup wallet.dat
399 2011-06-08 02:01:22 <gmaxwell> That would be the best of both worlds. Fresh addresses, but no backup liablity. .. Downside is that you need to totally discard your wallet if someone steals a copy.
400 2011-06-08 02:01:34 <iz> yeah, i think gmaxwell's idea is excellent for the wallet
401 2011-06-08 02:01:44 <iz> and it removes this backup problem
402 2011-06-08 02:02:01 Backburn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
403 2011-06-08 02:02:04 <gmaxwell> iz: and the change might have been 8999 BTC for a 1 btc transaction depending on what your distribution of coins is...
404 2011-06-08 02:02:08 <xelister> which ati drivers work on 2.6.38 ?
405 2011-06-08 02:02:26 <iz> xelister: the ppl in #bitcoin-mining probably know
406 2011-06-08 02:02:36 ius has quit (Quit: leaving)
407 2011-06-08 02:02:41 <xelister> they dont know shit :-&
408 2011-06-08 02:02:43 <anarchyx> it would be really nice to know that my backup is safe even if it remains in a vault for 10 years and i do a lot of transactions in the meanwhile - and when i put it back into use, it will just deduct what i did
409 2011-06-08 02:02:43 <luke-jr> xelister: 11.3
410 2011-06-08 02:02:53 <xelister> luke-jr: they hang
411 2011-06-08 02:02:57 <luke-jr> xelister: not for me
412 2011-06-08 02:03:02 <luke-jr> xelister: and I mine in a VM
413 2011-06-08 02:03:05 <xelister> Im not sure if ati or Linus are the noobs here
414 2011-06-08 02:03:12 gsathya_ has joined
415 2011-06-08 02:03:13 <xelister> experience says to bet Ati
416 2011-06-08 02:03:18 <luke-jr> xelister: always ATi, since their "drivers" violate Linux's copyright terms
417 2011-06-08 02:03:25 <xelister> but wtf why Linus sadenly renames api functions
418 2011-06-08 02:03:31 <luke-jr> xelister: that's intentional
419 2011-06-08 02:03:36 <luke-jr> to break infringing crap
420 2011-06-08 02:03:40 Gekz has joined
421 2011-06-08 02:03:40 Gekz has quit (Changing host)
422 2011-06-08 02:03:40 Gekz has joined
423 2011-06-08 02:03:45 <ajvpot> iz, regarding the remote RPC, yes
424 2011-06-08 02:03:47 <xelister> lol.. doubt that was his motivation
425 2011-06-08 02:03:53 <ajvpot> sorry about the slow response
426 2011-06-08 02:03:54 <luke-jr> xelister: Linus doesn't write the code
427 2011-06-08 02:03:59 <luke-jr> xelister: he just merged it
428 2011-06-08 02:04:03 <luke-jr> merges*
429 2011-06-08 02:04:07 <gmaxwell> Because propritary drivers make linux unmaintainable. Many developers don't make ANY effort to help them out.
430 2011-06-08 02:04:11 <luke-jr> xelister: the reality is, there is no API
431 2011-06-08 02:04:13 <iz> ajvpot: hmm.. next thing is tcpdump the connection and see what's actually happening
432 2011-06-08 02:04:18 Sylph has joined
433 2011-06-08 02:04:18 <iz> or use wireshark
434 2011-06-08 02:04:22 <luke-jr> xelister: it's all internal functions
435 2011-06-08 02:04:23 * ajvpot gets to it
436 2011-06-08 02:04:27 <luke-jr> xelister: nothing external is supposed to be using it
437 2011-06-08 02:04:28 <xelister> they renamed the function to blank console
438 2011-06-08 02:04:38 <luke-jr> xelister: programs rename functions all the time
439 2011-06-08 02:04:41 <xelister> that kernel modules are using
440 2011-06-08 02:04:41 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
441 2011-06-08 02:04:41 gsathya_ is now known as gsathya
442 2011-06-08 02:04:59 <ajvpot> ...
443 2011-06-08 02:05:00 <luke-jr> xelister: kernel modules aren't drivers
444 2011-06-08 02:05:06 <ajvpot> wireshark will finish downloading in 1 hour...
445 2011-06-08 02:05:07 <ajvpot> :/
446 2011-06-08 02:05:10 <luke-jr> they're just parts of the original kernel split off for convenience
447 2011-06-08 02:05:19 * ajvpot yells "WHOS TORRENTING STUFF?"
448 2011-06-08 02:05:30 <luke-jr> ajvpot: QoS++
449 2011-06-08 02:05:40 <Hardwarez> can I get an invite for bitcoinmarket.com
450 2011-06-08 02:05:43 <ajvpot> cba to set it up
451 2011-06-08 02:05:49 <ajvpot> probably will water
452 2011-06-08 02:05:54 <ajvpot> later
453 2011-06-08 02:06:15 <luke-jr> Hardwarez: why?
454 2011-06-08 02:06:39 Rudycoin has joined
455 2011-06-08 02:06:48 <Hardwarez> I want to buy bitcoins
456 2011-06-08 02:07:51 <doublec> Hardwarez: try #bitcoin-otc
457 2011-06-08 02:08:02 <Hardwarez> thanx
458 2011-06-08 02:08:12 yellowhat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
459 2011-06-08 02:08:35 yellowhat has joined
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462 2011-06-08 02:10:36 dr_win has joined
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464 2011-06-08 02:11:01 fckStick has joined
465 2011-06-08 02:12:37 johnnympereira5 has joined
466 2011-06-08 02:13:39 gruez has joined
467 2011-06-08 02:14:06 Incitatus has joined
468 2011-06-08 02:14:38 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
469 2011-06-08 02:15:01 ultrafluf has joined
470 2011-06-08 02:15:04 <ultrafluf> ahoy!
471 2011-06-08 02:15:16 <ultrafluf> long list
472 2011-06-08 02:15:22 <ajvpot> iz, nothing
473 2011-06-08 02:15:42 IncitatusOnWater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
474 2011-06-08 02:16:07 HEx1 has joined
475 2011-06-08 02:16:21 <ultrafluf> so if anyone that knows something about the bootstrapping in the bitcoin node client has a moment i have a question conserning lfnet
476 2011-06-08 02:18:33 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
477 2011-06-08 02:18:39 <ultrafluf> hm
478 2011-06-08 02:18:50 <ultrafluf> :(
479 2011-06-08 02:19:11 sgornick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
480 2011-06-08 02:19:18 vrs has quit (Changing host)
481 2011-06-08 02:19:18 vrs has joined
482 2011-06-08 02:19:25 <ultrafluf> o.o
483 2011-06-08 02:19:31 Beremat has joined
484 2011-06-08 02:19:32 lebish has joined
485 2011-06-08 02:19:36 DoomDumas has joined
486 2011-06-08 02:20:03 Gekz has joined
487 2011-06-08 02:20:03 Gekz has quit (Changing host)
488 2011-06-08 02:20:03 Gekz has joined
489 2011-06-08 02:20:04 fckStick has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
490 2011-06-08 02:20:27 * fizario runs around
491 2011-06-08 02:20:34 <ajvpot> WOOT NETSPLIT
492 2011-06-08 02:20:45 jivvz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
493 2011-06-08 02:20:46 Nicksasa has joined
494 2011-06-08 02:20:54 MT`AwAy has joined
495 2011-06-08 02:20:55 MT`AwAy has quit (Excess Flood)
496 2011-06-08 02:21:18 jivvz has joined
497 2011-06-08 02:21:24 MT`AwAy has joined
498 2011-06-08 02:21:25 MT`AwAy has quit (Excess Flood)
499 2011-06-08 02:21:29 cryptocnt has joined
500 2011-06-08 02:21:44 gruez has quit (Quit: Page closed)
501 2011-06-08 02:22:29 fckStick has joined
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505 2011-06-08 02:23:02 <[Tycho]> ;;seen MagicalTux
506 2011-06-08 02:23:02 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 2 hours, 38 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> BlueMatt: on a Qt client, not C#
507 2011-06-08 02:24:20 sneak has joined
508 2011-06-08 02:24:30 jimb0 has joined
509 2011-06-08 02:24:39 <fizario> how does the client know it received cash? If this is the script it just has a Hash160 of the recipients public key: "scriptPubKey":"OP_DUP OP_HASH160 32ca2d9d24ad2668833f8e3d684245c0baa206dd OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG"
510 2011-06-08 02:25:01 <fizario> does the client go around comparing its hash160(publickey) to every tx?
511 2011-06-08 02:25:17 Daviey has joined
512 2011-06-08 02:25:25 MT`AwAy has joined
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514 2011-06-08 02:25:47 <fizario> i dont see where the recipient's address is in the tx
515 2011-06-08 02:25:58 <fizario> its just a bunch of scripts
516 2011-06-08 02:26:39 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
517 2011-06-08 02:26:39 cash2coin777 has left ()
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522 2011-06-08 02:29:38 Gekz has joined
523 2011-06-08 02:29:49 <fizario> is blockexplorer showing the whole tx
524 2011-06-08 02:29:54 MT`AwAy has joined
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526 2011-06-08 02:31:06 kika_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
527 2011-06-08 02:32:20 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
528 2011-06-08 02:32:27 TheSeven has joined
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531 2011-06-08 02:37:25 MT`AwAy has joined
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535 2011-06-08 02:38:32 <ultrafluf> anyone?
536 2011-06-08 02:38:33 <ultrafluf> >.>
537 2011-06-08 02:38:55 MT`AwAy has joined
538 2011-06-08 02:38:56 MT`AwAy has quit (Excess Flood)
539 2011-06-08 02:39:25 MT`AwAy has joined
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545 2011-06-08 02:41:23 <justmoon> ultrafluf: don't ask about asking, just ask your question
546 2011-06-08 02:41:24 MT`AwAy has joined
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548 2011-06-08 02:42:27 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
549 2011-06-08 02:42:38 <forrestv> fizario, the script includes the recipient's address
550 2011-06-08 02:42:50 <forrestv> so yes, it does go around comparing
551 2011-06-08 02:43:25 <ultrafluf> well
552 2011-06-08 02:43:27 <ultrafluf> the thing is
553 2011-06-08 02:43:38 <ultrafluf> my isp just banned me because lfnet is blacklisted
554 2011-06-08 02:43:55 MT`AwAy has joined
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556 2011-06-08 02:44:06 <ajvpot> lol wat?
557 2011-06-08 02:44:07 <ultrafluf> took me a while to get note from them what caused them to consider me invaded
558 2011-06-08 02:44:08 <ajvpot> blacklisted?
559 2011-06-08 02:44:25 <ultrafluf> the irc connection to irc.lfnet.org made my isp cut me off
560 2011-06-08 02:44:54 <ajvpot> niiiiice
561 2011-06-08 02:44:57 <ultrafluf> they use filters from shadowserver and honeypot project
562 2011-06-08 02:45:22 <ultrafluf> so if someone reported the bots or used lfnet.org as a master just to get ppl using bitcoin in trouble .. it worked
563 2011-06-08 02:45:25 MT`AwAy has joined
564 2011-06-08 02:45:25 MT`AwAy has quit (Excess Flood)
565 2011-06-08 02:45:40 <ultrafluf> i was really wtf' for a moment
566 2011-06-08 02:45:55 MT`AwAy has joined
567 2011-06-08 02:45:55 MT`AwAy has quit (Excess Flood)
568 2011-06-08 02:46:00 <ultrafluf> when my internet stopped working all together :(
569 2011-06-08 02:46:03 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
570 2011-06-08 02:46:11 <doublec> ultrafluf: gmaxwell mentioned here yesterday that traffic to the irc channel was dropped by his ISP
571 2011-06-08 02:46:16 <doublec> ultrafluf: it's also dropped by mine
572 2011-06-08 02:46:45 <doublec> ultrafluf: the conjecture at the time was the at the server was under a DDOS
573 2011-06-08 02:46:55 MT`AwAy has joined
574 2011-06-08 02:46:56 <ajvpot> echo "noirc=1" > ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf
575 2011-06-08 02:46:56 <ultrafluf> well they cut me off completely but i am getting it back now :)
576 2011-06-08 02:46:59 <luke-jr> holy crap
577 2011-06-08 02:47:01 <ultrafluf> yes i've done that
578 2011-06-08 02:47:04 <luke-jr> that is a big problem
579 2011-06-08 02:47:10 <luke-jr> ultrafluf: what hoops did you need to jump through?
580 2011-06-08 02:47:28 <ultrafluf> well they have a security subnet which they put me in
581 2011-06-08 02:47:35 <ultrafluf> where you can just google and look on their website
582 2011-06-08 02:47:52 <ultrafluf> i'm using gprs now xD
583 2011-06-08 02:48:13 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
584 2011-06-08 02:48:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129300 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1739 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 0 hours, 33 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 685883.67468188
585 2011-06-08 02:48:42 <ultrafluf> i hope they put me back in normal internet tomorrow :/
586 2011-06-08 02:49:04 Diablo-D3 has joined
587 2011-06-08 02:49:54 <fizario> oh ok forrestv makes sense
588 2011-06-08 02:50:06 <ultrafluf> took them an evening to reply to me because they initially just informed me that i was connecting to a botmaster net a lot with some encyclopedia entry what that ment
589 2011-06-08 02:50:11 <doublec> ultrafluf: who is your ISP?
590 2011-06-08 02:50:13 <fizario> can you have multiple scriptPubKeys i wonder
591 2011-06-08 02:50:14 <ultrafluf> and i had to ask them to tell me
592 2011-06-08 02:50:24 <ultrafluf> its a private edu net
593 2011-06-08 02:50:25 rusty has joined
594 2011-06-08 02:50:41 glassresistor has joined
595 2011-06-08 02:50:50 <rusty> Dumb q: is there a TODO somewhere?
596 2011-06-08 02:50:50 <forrestv> fizario, what do you mean by that?
597 2011-06-08 02:51:12 <fizario> if you want to run multiple scripts
598 2011-06-08 02:51:22 sshc_ is now known as sshc
599 2011-06-08 02:51:30 <fizario> i guess you just put everything in the same stack
600 2011-06-08 02:52:17 <ultrafluf> but anyway it's something recent cuz i didn't have problems last week and i am sure my client has some nodes in memory but i thought it might be handy for you ppl to know :)
601 2011-06-08 02:53:10 vorlov has joined
602 2011-06-08 02:53:21 plato has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
603 2011-06-08 02:55:19 * ultrafluf hands out victory cookies
604 2011-06-08 02:55:34 <ultrafluf> fckers had me worried i was compromised all night :/
605 2011-06-08 02:56:11 NOTAL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
606 2011-06-08 02:56:17 gsathya has quit (Quit: gsathya)
607 2011-06-08 02:56:54 Sylph has joined
608 2011-06-08 02:57:37 Hardwarez has left ()
609 2011-06-08 02:58:08 <rusty> Or should I just read through the code and look for random things to clean up? (I'm on Linux, of course)
610 2011-06-08 02:59:11 <luke-jr> rusty: Spesmilo is always happy for more developers too :D
611 2011-06-08 02:59:26 <luke-jr> rusty: the original client is kinda a mess
612 2011-06-08 03:00:05 <rusty> luke-jr: that's OK, I'm pretty familiar with FOSS "kind of a mess" projects ;)
613 2011-06-08 03:00:51 <luke-jr> rusty: newer clients have much better potential for the future IMO
614 2011-06-08 03:01:06 proudhon has joined
615 2011-06-08 03:01:25 MRD_ has joined
616 2011-06-08 03:01:41 hacim has joined
617 2011-06-08 03:01:42 _Maru_ has joined
618 2011-06-08 03:02:06 Hachima has joined
619 2011-06-08 03:02:07 <hacim> i wrote a man page for the debian package, its pretty decent, and I wanted to propose it be included in the bitcoin source
620 2011-06-08 03:02:11 <fizario> why not obscure recipient addresses by default. HASH160(recipient_pubkey + some_salt)
621 2011-06-08 03:02:16 <hacim> is there a place where i should submit it?
622 2011-06-08 03:02:19 Twoheaded has quit ()
623 2011-06-08 03:02:21 <_Maru_> can we have the slogan "In bits we trust."?
624 2011-06-08 03:02:22 <rusty> hacim: want me to proof read?
625 2011-06-08 03:02:34 toffoo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
626 2011-06-08 03:02:38 <hacim> rusty: patches are welcome!
627 2011-06-08 03:02:49 hydrogenesis has joined
628 2011-06-08 03:02:52 <rusty> hacim: url?
629 2011-06-08 03:03:03 <hacim> rusty: its in the debian package
630 2011-06-08 03:03:04 <luke-jr> _Maru_: no
631 2011-06-08 03:03:08 toffoo has joined
632 2011-06-08 03:03:29 <hacim> i can probably find a gitweb url
633 2011-06-08 03:03:48 <hacim> rusty: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/bitcoin.git;a=commit;h=77eb7948fd8a7901d7d731d004e9154d9f0270d7
634 2011-06-08 03:03:50 <_Maru_> lol
635 2011-06-08 03:04:09 Twoheaded has joined
636 2011-06-08 03:04:57 johnnympereira5 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
637 2011-06-08 03:06:01 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
638 2011-06-08 03:06:16 johnnympereira5 has joined
639 2011-06-08 03:07:09 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
640 2011-06-08 03:10:30 eternal1 has joined
641 2011-06-08 03:10:33 <rusty> hacim: ok. bitcoind.1: first line is a bit wrong "bitcoind - peer-to-peer network based anonymous digital currency".
642 2011-06-08 03:11:19 <hacim> rusty: do you have a suggested re-wording?
643 2011-06-08 03:12:13 Kireji has joined
644 2011-06-08 03:12:16 _Maru_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
645 2011-06-08 03:12:25 <rusty> hacim: ok, well, the man page is bitcoind, but the command you're describing is bitcoin... so "a client for the bitcoin peer-to-peer currency network" ?
646 2011-06-08 03:12:38 <Kireji> what are these mandatory fee errors I keep seeing people mention? is there a wiki page that covers fees for too many small transactions?
647 2011-06-08 03:12:44 Gekz has joined
648 2011-06-08 03:14:38 <hacim> rusty: actually the command is 'bitcoind'
649 2011-06-08 03:14:54 <rusty> hacim: then the synopsis is wrong :)
650 2011-06-08 03:15:06 <Kireji> Most miners seem to implement this policy. So it's already happening that many free transactions are not managing to enter any block.
651 2011-06-08 03:15:09 <Kireji> This is being discussed on other topics right now.
652 2011-06-08 03:15:20 <Kireji> <-- quote from http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3999.0
653 2011-06-08 03:15:28 <JFK911> so what should users do about this
654 2011-06-08 03:16:57 <hacim> rusty: you are right!
655 2011-06-08 03:17:24 <rusty> hacim: sometimes it helps to have an idiot read it, see? :)
656 2011-06-08 03:17:49 <hacim> :D
657 2011-06-08 03:18:58 <Kireji> can someone comment on free transaction processing time vs. fees? are fees required for practical use?
658 2011-06-08 03:20:06 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
659 2011-06-08 03:22:19 Gekz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
660 2011-06-08 03:23:39 <hacim> Kireji: I've tried to sort that out myself, but was unable to
661 2011-06-08 03:23:41 <rusty> hacim: OK, you should either move the *bitcoin* description to an ABOUT BITCOIN section, or just refer ("For information about bitcoin, see http://bitcoin.org").
662 2011-06-08 03:24:08 Gekz has joined
663 2011-06-08 03:24:08 Gekz has quit (Changing host)
664 2011-06-08 03:24:08 Gekz has joined
665 2011-06-08 03:24:41 <hacim> rusty: you mean the second paragraph of the description that starts with "Bitcoins can be sent easily through the Internet, without..." ?
666 2011-06-08 03:25:00 <rusty> hacim: more information on defaults would be really useful. For example, -gen is the default.
667 2011-06-08 03:25:25 <hacim> -gen is the default? i'm afraid I dont understand
668 2011-06-08 03:26:00 <Kireji> hacim: thanks
669 2011-06-08 03:26:03 <rusty> hacim: yeah... the verbiage needs work, and it reads like an advertisment. Assume that if they d/l the client, they know something...
670 2011-06-08 03:26:21 <Kireji> it appears the issue with micro payments still exists, but it's better
671 2011-06-08 03:26:35 <Kireji> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fee this is a good read
672 2011-06-08 03:26:37 <hacim> i'm trying to send ~12btc and I'm getting that error
673 2011-06-08 03:26:49 <hacim> rusty: i'm certainly open to suggested changes there
674 2011-06-08 03:27:00 <jrmithdobbs> hacim: you have a bunch of tiny payments that were instant cashouts from a pool?
675 2011-06-08 03:27:19 <Kireji> my understanding is that it is *not* the size of the transaction, but the number of previous transactions that must be pooled that cause the fee issue
676 2011-06-08 03:27:41 <jrmithdobbs> yup. stop paying out so often from the pool
677 2011-06-08 03:27:44 <hacim> rusty: what about just duplicating what is in the NAME section ("bitcoind \- peer-to-peer network based anonymous digital currency") in the DESCRIPTION, and moving what is there now to an ABOUT section?
678 2011-06-08 03:27:49 <lfm> Kireji: theoreticlly you never need to pay fees. there are some problems with that tho. some versions of the software will insist you pay for some transactions. also transactions with fees have priority so free transactions are sometime delayed due to traffic levels
679 2011-06-08 03:28:00 <rusty> hacim: "-gen Generate coins /-gen=0 Don't generate coins" Presumably the lattr exists because the former is the default?
680 2011-06-08 03:28:21 <Kireji> lfm: in practice, are free transactions being delayed?
681 2011-06-08 03:28:24 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: no, i received a 12btc transaction and am trying to send it elsewhere
682 2011-06-08 03:28:44 <lfm> Kireji: sometimes yes, not sure about right now
683 2011-06-08 03:28:52 <hacim> rusty: if you do bitcoind -gen, then you start generating, to stop it you need to do gen=0
684 2011-06-08 03:29:20 <Kireji> or "bitcoin setgenerate false"
685 2011-06-08 03:29:20 <hacim> rusty: so -gen isn't really a default, its more of a toggle on
686 2011-06-08 03:29:47 peter345978 has joined
687 2011-06-08 03:30:05 <rusty> hacim: OK... so bitcoind is both a daemon, and a client to control an already-running daemon?
688 2011-06-08 03:30:07 <lfm> -gen=0 is the default I beleive
689 2011-06-08 03:30:16 <jrmithdobbs> rusty: yes
690 2011-06-08 03:30:22 Twoheaded has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
691 2011-06-08 03:30:34 <lfm> rusty ya
692 2011-06-08 03:30:34 <rusty> .. RIGHT! Then that should probably be the first words of the man page :)
693 2011-06-08 03:30:49 <jrmithdobbs> hacim: you sure all 12 are assigned to the same address?
694 2011-06-08 03:31:10 <Kireji> http://lwn.net/Articles/414452/ exaplins the fees will replace mining rewards in the future
695 2011-06-08 03:31:37 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: they are all in my wallet and came from the same address
696 2011-06-08 03:31:52 <Kireji> that the accumulation of fees from all transactions will be the reason to keep doing block calculations once the issuing stops or slows significantly
697 2011-06-08 03:31:52 <jrmithdobbs> hacim: in the same transaction to the same destination address?
698 2011-06-08 03:31:53 <hacim> rusty: well, technically bitcoind is a daemon and you speak json to it
699 2011-06-08 03:32:02 <lfm> kireji a long time in the future, ya
700 2011-06-08 03:32:15 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: yes
701 2011-06-08 03:32:22 <jrmithdobbs> hacim: and you're running 3.22?
702 2011-06-08 03:32:30 <Kireji> is there a page that describes what the files are in ~/.bitcoin ?
703 2011-06-08 03:32:34 <lfm> hacim: you can also use bitcoind to generate json commands
704 2011-06-08 03:32:44 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: actually 0.3.21
705 2011-06-08 03:33:05 <Kireji> addr.dat blk0001.dat __db.00[1-6] ?
706 2011-06-08 03:33:06 <jrmithdobbs> hacim: and it's telling you you need a fee? are the 12 coins the only thing in your wallet?
707 2011-06-08 03:33:18 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: yes, only thing
708 2011-06-08 03:33:35 <Kireji> do any of them matter, or is only wallat.dat important to me?
709 2011-06-08 03:34:14 <lfm> Kireji: the blk0001.dat is what we call the block chain and blkindex.dat is an index into it
710 2011-06-08 03:34:35 <lfm> Kireji: and debug.log is of course a log file
711 2011-06-08 03:35:19 <Kireji> read up on addr here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Man_page
712 2011-06-08 03:35:23 <Kireji> lfm: thanks
713 2011-06-08 03:35:32 cacheson has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
714 2011-06-08 03:35:33 <lfm> the various db files are just temp work files for the databases
715 2011-06-08 03:35:38 <Kireji> it looks like all those files are just ones to run the client
716 2011-06-08 03:35:47 <Kireji> not ones I need for my bitcoins
717 2011-06-08 03:35:59 johnlockwood has joined
718 2011-06-08 03:36:06 <Kireji> is it the case that wallat.dat is really the only file that contains the value part?
719 2011-06-08 03:36:10 Twoheaded has joined
720 2011-06-08 03:36:11 <lfm> Kireji: you only need to backup wallet.dat, yes
721 2011-06-08 03:36:34 <Kireji> lfm: ok. "only" <- I have to keep it secret too, right?
722 2011-06-08 03:36:40 <lfm> Kireji: it has all your private keys and stuff for your money
723 2011-06-08 03:37:04 <Kireji> so if someone gets a copy of my wallat.dat, can't they spend my bitcoins?
724 2011-06-08 03:37:11 <lfm> ya dont let anyone else have copies
725 2011-06-08 03:37:27 <Kireji> I read about a lot of people putting copies everywhere, like on dropbox
726 2011-06-08 03:37:35 <Kireji> that sounds like a *really* bad idea
727 2011-06-08 03:37:43 <lfm> maybe if it is encrypted
728 2011-06-08 03:37:58 <Kireji> hmm
729 2011-06-08 03:38:13 <lfm> watch out for "services" that want to "bakup" your wallet. some have known to be scams
730 2011-06-08 03:38:37 <Kireji> a "bitcoin bank"
731 2011-06-08 03:39:05 backwardation25 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
732 2011-06-08 03:39:26 <Kireji> thanks
733 2011-06-08 03:39:40 <lfm> banks are something else. you can deposit btc to bank sites like mybitcoin.com or mtgox.com and as far as we know they are ok
734 2011-06-08 03:39:40 <hacim> jrmithdobbs: additonally, there have been 30 confirmations since I recieved those btc
735 2011-06-08 03:40:09 <EPiSKiNG-> most sub 800 watt PSUs don't have support for 2 5970s do they?
736 2011-06-08 03:40:12 <hacim> rusty: do you want to make some changes and then send me the diff?
737 2011-06-08 03:40:19 <EPiSKiNG-> or two 5870s rather
738 2011-06-08 03:40:37 <Diablo-D3> two 5870s? sure
739 2011-06-08 03:40:40 <Diablo-D3> thats 188*2
740 2011-06-08 03:40:43 <rusty> hacim: I could, but I think we're getting closer to "rewrite", so I want more feedback firs.t Should we pm instead?
741 2011-06-08 03:40:57 <EPiSKiNG-> right, but i noticed that a lot of 550 watt psus don't have more than 1 pci-e cable
742 2011-06-08 03:40:58 <hacim> rusty: the problem is its late here, and I'm about to sleep
743 2011-06-08 03:41:00 <lfm> EPiSKiNG-: support? you mean the right connectors?
744 2011-06-08 03:41:14 <EPiSKiNG-> i'm used to 1200 watters, and thinking about what i'm going to do with the 4 cards on the way
745 2011-06-08 03:41:16 <hacim> rusty: i'm really interested in your feedback on this!
746 2011-06-08 03:41:31 <rusty> hacim: oh, sorry! OK, I'll hack something up and see what I come up with. I'll ask others my dumb q.s :)
747 2011-06-08 03:41:33 noagendamarket has joined
748 2011-06-08 03:41:37 <lfm> EPiSKiNG-: almost any psu in that range can do crossfire or sli and thats all you're talking about
749 2011-06-08 03:41:44 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
750 2011-06-08 03:42:03 <EPiSKiNG-> with the molex to pci-e adapters?
751 2011-06-08 03:42:06 <hacim> rusty: they aren't dumb, they are good! do you know how to use git by any chance?
752 2011-06-08 03:42:31 <rusty> hacim: Um, yes... I'm a Linux kernel developer, it's kind of a requirement :)
753 2011-06-08 03:42:32 <lfm> EPiSKiNG-: most will have two psie connectors already in that range Id think
754 2011-06-08 03:42:34 fpgaminer has joined
755 2011-06-08 03:42:43 <lfm> pcie
756 2011-06-08 03:42:54 <EPiSKiNG-> and if i'm running 2 5870s overclocked with a sempron i'd only need like 500 watts right?
757 2011-06-08 03:43:12 <hacim> rusty: great! then you can send me a diff or publish your repo somewhere
758 2011-06-08 03:43:21 <jrmithdobbs> EPiSKiNG-: #bitcoin-mining
759 2011-06-08 03:43:22 <lfm> EPiSKiNG-: ya maybe.
760 2011-06-08 03:43:58 DontMindMe2 has joined
761 2011-06-08 03:44:02 <rusty> hacim: sure.... I'll mail you the results.
762 2011-06-08 03:44:05 DontMindMe has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
763 2011-06-08 03:44:29 <EPiSKiNG-> sry, off topic
764 2011-06-08 03:44:36 <hacim> thanks rusty, also thanks for your work on the linux kernel, very much appreciated!
765 2011-06-08 03:44:37 <Kireji> "You will be charged 0.01 BTC per kilobyte, just like all other transactions" from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Man_page - is this a client convention, or in the algorithm?
766 2011-06-08 03:45:19 skeledrew1 has joined
767 2011-06-08 03:45:23 sender555 has joined
768 2011-06-08 03:45:41 <rusty> hacim: You're welcome! It keeps me out of trouble :).
769 2011-06-08 03:45:43 <lfm> Kireji: kinda like a policy
770 2011-06-08 03:46:17 Gekz has quit ()
771 2011-06-08 03:46:18 <lfm> Kireji: if you dont pay it, it might still go thru but you dont know when, it might takes days
772 2011-06-08 03:47:25 <Kireji> I'm concered that if BTC become really deflated, 0.01 BTC might be a large resource
773 2011-06-08 03:47:48 <Kireji> I'm not sure if I said that right
774 2011-06-08 03:47:52 <lfm> ya well then we can change the policy, not hard to do
775 2011-06-08 03:47:54 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10049.0
776 2011-06-08 03:48:01 <jrmithdobbs> already addressed
777 2011-06-08 03:48:06 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
778 2011-06-08 03:48:52 <Kireji> jrmithdobbs: thanks
779 2011-06-08 03:50:32 cacheson has joined
780 2011-06-08 03:51:26 mmoya has joined
781 2011-06-08 03:52:37 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
782 2011-06-08 03:53:11 DukeOfURL has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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785 2011-06-08 03:55:34 <peter345978> I'd like to test something on the testnet, but lack (test) coins. Could someone send me some testnet coins? Thanksâ¦. mvLiyvNKpz4M35GFu7r9QdFKnHbVHLjQ5Q
786 2011-06-08 03:55:45 sgornick has joined
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788 2011-06-08 03:56:38 sgornick has joined
789 2011-06-08 03:57:57 scott` has joined
790 2011-06-08 03:58:20 <scott`> ;;bc,stats
791 2011-06-08 03:58:22 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129310 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1729 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 22 hours, 13 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 689263.70403711
792 2011-06-08 04:00:29 fckStick has quit ()
793 2011-06-08 04:01:28 vigilyn has joined
794 2011-06-08 04:06:03 <lfm> peter345978: I think there is a tesnet faucet you should be able to get a bunch
795 2011-06-08 04:06:37 <peter345978> It's out of service.
796 2011-06-08 04:07:11 pRjck3vC has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
797 2011-06-08 04:07:15 <lfm> peter345978: k hold on
798 2011-06-08 04:07:31 pRjck3vC has joined
799 2011-06-08 04:07:45 <peter345978> Thanks!
800 2011-06-08 04:10:39 <lfm> peter345978: is that enuf?
801 2011-06-08 04:11:16 <peter345978> Um, not sure...
802 2011-06-08 04:11:50 <lfm> Ill run a while make sure it gets in a block
803 2011-06-08 04:13:21 gwelymernan has joined
804 2011-06-08 04:14:28 <peter345978> Thank you kind sir. That's all I should need.
805 2011-06-08 04:14:39 <lfm> ok have fun
806 2011-06-08 04:14:54 <johnnympereira5> has anyone had any issues with the msi 790fx boards at all?
807 2011-06-08 04:19:02 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
808 2011-06-08 04:19:02 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":28.678,"low":18.4,"vol":71578,"buy":27.75,"sell":28.3,"last":27.9}}
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813 2011-06-08 04:22:04 LightRider is now known as LightRider|afk
814 2011-06-08 04:22:41 <purpleposeidon> ;;guide
815 2011-06-08 04:22:41 <gribble> Error: "guide" is not a valid command.
816 2011-06-08 04:23:00 scott` has quit (Quit: scott`)
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835 2011-06-08 04:49:09 <fizario> hmm how do clients make sure the coinbase doesn't have too much coinage
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840 2011-06-08 04:53:22 Txyru` has joined
841 2011-06-08 04:53:23 sabalaba has joined
842 2011-06-08 04:53:24 <Txyru`> how long does it take coins to mature in the testnet?
843 2011-06-08 04:53:41 <Txyru`> how many blocks*
844 2011-06-08 04:53:54 <io_error> Txyru`: same as always
845 2011-06-08 04:54:16 <io_error> fizario: The client rejects blocks which have the wrong coinbase
846 2011-06-08 04:54:22 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
847 2011-06-08 04:54:40 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-251-225-168.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
848 2011-06-08 04:54:53 <Txyru`> hmm
849 2011-06-08 04:54:55 <Txyru`> interesting
850 2011-06-08 04:55:04 <Txyru`> listtransactions does that list all the transactions?
851 2011-06-08 04:55:10 <Txyru`> or only a specific amount
852 2011-06-08 04:55:27 <Txyru`> because i had generated a few blocks with testnet and now it only shows a few generated
853 2011-06-08 04:56:08 <Txyru`> quite a few*
854 2011-06-08 04:57:52 dubious_ has joined
855 2011-06-08 04:58:50 Sylph has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
856 2011-06-08 04:58:52 <HarryS> "bitcoind listreceivedbyaddress 0 true" lists out your current receiving addresses, yes?
857 2011-06-08 04:59:05 Sylph has joined
858 2011-06-08 04:59:49 kermit has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
859 2011-06-08 04:59:50 Sylph has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
860 2011-06-08 05:00:04 Sylph has joined
861 2011-06-08 05:00:09 dubious_ is now known as dubious
862 2011-06-08 05:00:12 <Txyru`> how can you tell if you generated an orphaned block with testnet
863 2011-06-08 05:01:51 rmeyes has joined
864 2011-06-08 05:05:04 <lfm> Txyru`: did the 50 btc generated mature on you end?
865 2011-06-08 05:05:13 <Txyru`> No
866 2011-06-08 05:05:21 <Txyru`> but it doesnt say invalid
867 2011-06-08 05:05:27 <lfm> Txyru`: how many blocks ago was it?
868 2011-06-08 05:05:38 <Txyru`> I dont know
869 2011-06-08 05:05:49 <Txyru`> its not showing up in my bitcoind transaction list
870 2011-06-08 05:05:55 <Txyru`> it had like 25 confirms
871 2011-06-08 05:06:06 <lfm> in your debug.log it should show what happened and what block number (height) it was
872 2011-06-08 05:06:16 kermit has joined
873 2011-06-08 05:06:40 <blueCmd> Love waking up in the morning finding that BTC has risen 50%
874 2011-06-08 05:07:12 kika_ has joined
875 2011-06-08 05:07:22 <jrmithdobbs> give me your GBP denominated bank account so i can trade on margin!
876 2011-06-08 05:07:27 <jrmithdobbs> heh
877 2011-06-08 05:07:39 <kika_> bitcoin uses any crypt algorithm or something covered by patents?
878 2011-06-08 05:07:39 metonymous has joined
879 2011-06-08 05:07:44 <jrmithdobbs> think the discrepency has gone down enough now it's not worth it again :(
880 2011-06-08 05:08:54 <metonymous> hey all, is the reason there's no OS X 3.22 that no-ones built it yet?
881 2011-06-08 05:09:03 <kika_> elliptic curve cryptography seems to be vulnerable to quantum computers attack, how come bitcoin is secure then?
882 2011-06-08 05:09:31 <lfm> kika_: cuz no one has build any quantum computers yet
883 2011-06-08 05:09:40 <[Tycho]> Wow, 48 minutes without a block in the entire network.
884 2011-06-08 05:09:41 <Txyru`> this si what I got http://pastie.org/private/rrbvcm1c4czp33fxeopma
885 2011-06-08 05:09:58 <kika_> lfm: you cant be sure about that
886 2011-06-08 05:10:10 <kika_> lfm: there is even a company sellling quantum computers
887 2011-06-08 05:10:13 <metonymous> [Tycho]: yah!
888 2011-06-08 05:10:26 <kika_> lfm: maybe the NSA owns secret quantum computers
889 2011-06-08 05:11:13 <lfm> kika_: ya maybe the flying saucers do too
890 2011-06-08 05:11:17 <gmaxwell> kika_: its not the same kind of quantum computer that would be good for anything related to crypto, even if you buy all of their hype.
891 2011-06-08 05:11:28 sacarlson has joined
892 2011-06-08 05:11:39 <kika_> lfm: i think the flying saucers have quantum computers off course
893 2011-06-08 05:12:05 <rusty> [Tycho]: Then three in under 4 minutes... I think that's some kind of clock skew, given the # transactions in each.
894 2011-06-08 05:12:24 <lfm> Txyru`: ok you should be able to watch those txid on the block explorer
895 2011-06-08 05:12:25 <gmaxwell> network time is freeking crazy.
896 2011-06-08 05:12:52 sabalaba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
897 2011-06-08 05:13:05 Xenland has joined
898 2011-06-08 05:13:46 <lfm> Txyru`: see http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/t/7a17SrobbB
899 2011-06-08 05:14:17 <Txyru`> lfm, here is a block I generated http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/tx/fcdce870ad2530b4b3e27310f9082b01147ec6f63ddd1c1b6973c2953f154d15
900 2011-06-08 05:14:22 <Txyru`> thats not showing up in my wallet anymore
901 2011-06-08 05:17:10 <lfm> Txyru`: I dunno, mybe needs a -rescan or something. I dont think ARtForz is currently messing around with testnet but you can never be too sure. he was a week or so ago tho and he was causing forks and stuff
902 2011-06-08 05:17:15 johnnympereira5 has joined
903 2011-06-08 05:17:27 <Txyru`> lol too much power?
904 2011-06-08 05:17:30 <Txyru`> ill do a rescan
905 2011-06-08 05:18:01 <Txyru`> bitcoind -testnet -rescan
906 2011-06-08 05:18:04 <Txyru`> that should do it right?
907 2011-06-08 05:18:12 <lfm> ya I think so
908 2011-06-08 05:18:32 <metonymous> is tehre a way to change an unconfirmed transaction to include a fee after it's been pushed? I don't know how many nodes have the tx yet
909 2011-06-08 05:18:46 <metonymous> can an unconfirmed tx be revoked
910 2011-06-08 05:18:51 <metonymous> that's my general question
911 2011-06-08 05:19:19 <Txyru`> lfm, so if it was orphaned it will just disappear from my wallet?
912 2011-06-08 05:19:23 <Txyru`> and not get any more confirms
913 2011-06-08 05:19:55 <Txyru`> the strange thing is
914 2011-06-08 05:20:04 <Txyru`> my testnet balance is >1000btc
915 2011-06-08 05:20:09 <lfm> It might hang there with 0 confirms for a long time, not sure, either thet or dissapear
916 2011-06-08 05:20:18 <Txyru`> why would that be when i have not yet had a block with 120 confirms
917 2011-06-08 05:20:21 bob2 has joined
918 2011-06-08 05:20:23 <kika_> [Tycho]: sometimes it takes a while for the transaction to appear on my bitcoin client when i click instant payout button ?
919 2011-06-08 05:20:40 <jrmithdobbs> kika_: p2p network lag
920 2011-06-08 05:20:58 <jrmithdobbs> it has been particularly bad the last week or so
921 2011-06-08 05:21:16 <kika_> jrmithdobbs: i see no such transaction on blockexplorer for my deepbit payment transaction why
922 2011-06-08 05:21:29 <jrmithdobbs> because it's not in a block
923 2011-06-08 05:21:44 <jrmithdobbs> if you've not even seen it over p2p there's no way it could be ina block yet
924 2011-06-08 05:21:57 <kika_> jrmithdobbs: weird, so ill have to wait the bad thing is that in past it showed on my bitcoin as 0 confirmations now it doesnt even lists it
925 2011-06-08 05:22:10 <metonymous> kika_: that don't sound fun
926 2011-06-08 05:22:14 <jrmithdobbs> wah
927 2011-06-08 05:22:31 <kika_> metonymous: what do you mean
928 2011-06-08 05:22:52 <metonymous> well, for my case, the gui didn't give me a tx id
929 2011-06-08 05:23:00 <metonymous> so it feels like an orphaned TX
930 2011-06-08 05:23:02 <metonymous> is that possible?
931 2011-06-08 05:23:07 <metonymous> will my client resend reglarly?
932 2011-06-08 05:23:15 <jrmithdobbs> yes and yes
933 2011-06-08 05:23:21 <metonymous> een 2.21?
934 2011-06-08 05:23:22 <metonymous> even
935 2011-06-08 05:24:01 <Txyru`> lfm, any thoughts on why i have a balance in my wallet with blocks that never confirmed?
936 2011-06-08 05:24:04 <Txyru`> and that dont show up
937 2011-06-08 05:24:06 dfc_ has joined
938 2011-06-08 05:24:31 pogden has joined
939 2011-06-08 05:25:22 <metonymous> it'd be nice if the gui let you retrieve the tx id...
940 2011-06-08 05:25:36 Xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
941 2011-06-08 05:25:37 <dfc_> hello. sorry that this is not a -dev topic specifically. does anyone know of a good howto for setting up two ATI GPUS in linux? I had one 5850 running smoothly for a while now. today i added a 6870. i haev one monitor plugged into each card. however whenever i try and run pocblm on :0.0 or :0.1 it always does the work on the first card.
942 2011-06-08 05:26:10 <jrmithdobbs> dfc_: #bitcoin-mining
943 2011-06-08 05:26:15 <dfc_> and./or an solid method for debugging why work is only being sent to the first card?
944 2011-06-08 05:29:37 <Txyru`> gah i dont understand..
945 2011-06-08 05:29:40 <Txyru`> I generated this block http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/block/0000000000a7355a64f54a84ef82d235db606795a66249af559339ebc7d4fd08
946 2011-06-08 05:29:46 <Txyru`> it showed up in my wallet at one point
947 2011-06-08 05:29:49 <Txyru`> but now itsgone
948 2011-06-08 05:30:45 metonymous has quit (Quit: metonymous)
949 2011-06-08 05:32:06 D0han has joined
950 2011-06-08 05:33:21 wolfspraul has joined
951 2011-06-08 05:37:41 darkmethod has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
952 2011-06-08 05:37:50 perol has joined
953 2011-06-08 05:38:12 <cacheson> can anyone recommend a good screencasting program for windows that doesn't suck?
954 2011-06-08 05:39:06 lumos has joined
955 2011-06-08 05:39:23 lumos has left ()
956 2011-06-08 05:39:38 johnnympereira5 has quit ()
957 2011-06-08 05:40:07 <D0han> is there changelog of bitcoin client?
958 2011-06-08 05:41:11 Backburn has joined
959 2011-06-08 05:42:02 dfc_ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
960 2011-06-08 05:42:32 dx25 has joined
961 2011-06-08 05:47:28 zooko has quit (Quit: Zzz...)
962 2011-06-08 05:48:03 <Txyru`> does listtransactions list ALL the transactions or only the most recent X transactions?
963 2011-06-08 05:48:51 twitcoins has joined
964 2011-06-08 05:49:32 <doublec> Txyru`: it takes a parameter for the number
965 2011-06-08 05:49:36 Nevezen has left ()
966 2011-06-08 05:49:48 dx25 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
967 2011-06-08 05:49:56 LightRider is now known as afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|LightRider
968 2011-06-08 05:49:58 <doublec> Txyru`: it defaults to the last 10
969 2011-06-08 05:50:11 <doublec> Txyru`: so try: bitcoind listtransactions "" 10000
970 2011-06-08 05:50:24 <Txyru`> thanks
971 2011-06-08 05:50:27 <Txyru`> i got it working
972 2011-06-08 05:54:38 <Txyru`> doublec, how would you do that as a json call?
973 2011-06-08 05:55:09 diki has joined
974 2011-06-08 05:55:13 <Txyru`> {
975 2011-06-08 05:55:14 <Txyru`> "method": "listtransactions",
976 2011-06-08 05:55:14 <Txyru`> "params": ['*'=>100],
977 2011-06-08 05:55:14 <Txyru`> "id": 1
978 2011-06-08 05:55:14 <Txyru`> }
979 2011-06-08 05:55:16 <Txyru`> doesnt work
980 2011-06-08 05:55:18 <diki> woah, when did the price go sky high???
981 2011-06-08 05:55:22 <doublec> Txyru`: {method:"listtransactions" params:["",10000]}
982 2011-06-08 05:56:23 <Txyru`> thanks!
983 2011-06-08 05:56:58 <doublec> np
984 2011-06-08 05:57:39 caedes has joined
985 2011-06-08 05:57:40 caedes has quit (Changing host)
986 2011-06-08 05:57:40 caedes has joined
987 2011-06-08 05:57:40 MB123789 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
988 2011-06-08 05:57:46 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
989 2011-06-08 06:03:49 Sylph has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
990 2011-06-08 06:04:11 Rolz73 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
991 2011-06-08 06:04:53 kika_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
992 2011-06-08 06:05:37 Count_Niedar has joined
993 2011-06-08 06:05:59 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
994 2011-06-08 06:06:07 <io_error> diki: in the last couple of hours
995 2011-06-08 06:06:55 Xunie` has quit (Quit: Can God microwave a taco so hot that not even *HE* can eat it without burns?)
996 2011-06-08 06:09:02 Niedar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
997 2011-06-08 06:09:04 Sylph has joined
998 2011-06-08 06:12:50 hydrogenesis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
999 2011-06-08 06:13:20 hydrogenesis has joined
1000 2011-06-08 06:13:31 MartianW has joined
1001 2011-06-08 06:14:43 dubious has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1002 2011-06-08 06:19:35 dx25 has joined
1003 2011-06-08 06:20:05 <UukGoblin> yay, .22 released - where can I find the changelog plz?
1004 2011-06-08 06:24:37 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
1005 2011-06-08 06:24:38 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":28.678,"low":18.4,"vol":76884,"buy":26.66,"sell":26.86,"last":26.7}}
1006 2011-06-08 06:25:22 wistiu has joined
1007 2011-06-08 06:25:46 Sylph has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1008 2011-06-08 06:26:11 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1009 2011-06-08 06:26:24 Zarutian has left ()
1010 2011-06-08 06:26:59 diki has quit ()
1011 2011-06-08 06:27:27 <hacim> what is this: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/a288fec5559c3f73fd3d93db8e8460562ebfe2fcf04a5114e8d0f2920a6270dc
1012 2011-06-08 06:28:07 <Txyru`> invalid block?
1013 2011-06-08 06:28:09 <Txyru`> looks strange
1014 2011-06-08 06:28:26 <Txyru`> no not a block
1015 2011-06-08 06:28:26 karnac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1016 2011-06-08 06:28:28 <Txyru`> weird transaction
1017 2011-06-08 06:28:34 <jrmithdobbs> lol
1018 2011-06-08 06:28:54 karnac has joined
1019 2011-06-08 06:29:28 <gmaxwell> It's a DOS attack txn
1020 2011-06-08 06:29:36 <jrmithdobbs> or an attempt at one
1021 2011-06-08 06:29:43 <gmaxwell> It makes everyone do a bunch of repeated signature checking activities.
1022 2011-06-08 06:30:00 <gmaxwell> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Incidents#OP_CHECKSIG_abuse
1023 2011-06-08 06:30:20 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1024 2011-06-08 06:30:50 jarpiain has joined
1025 2011-06-08 06:31:14 <jrmithdobbs> oh is that that same one
1026 2011-06-08 06:31:18 <jrmithdobbs> thought it was a new one
1027 2011-06-08 06:31:55 perol has quit (Quit: 离å¼)
1028 2011-06-08 06:32:28 <devon_hillard> where does the entropy for generating public/private keysets come from?
1029 2011-06-08 06:32:36 Txyru` has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1030 2011-06-08 06:32:42 <devon_hillard> key creation looks too quick
1031 2011-06-08 06:32:53 <gmaxwell> The operating system, plus bitcoin has timing code to generate more (only used on windows Ithink)
1032 2011-06-08 06:32:54 <jrmithdobbs> it's way too slow what are you talking about
1033 2011-06-08 06:33:26 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: ecc generation is is faster than RSA if thats what your benchmark is.
1034 2011-06-08 06:33:28 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: on unix systems (including osx) it comes from /dev/urandom and an additional seed from the current time at startup (pretty standard)
1035 2011-06-08 06:33:53 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: on windows it also uses RAND_screen() and RAND_event()
1036 2011-06-08 06:34:08 <devon_hillard> are those crypto-strong RNDs?
1037 2011-06-08 06:34:26 <devon_hillard> *RNGs*
1038 2011-06-08 06:34:28 <gmaxwell> It feeds those things into a crypto-strong rng.
1039 2011-06-08 06:34:29 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: and has a hacky way of kind-of-sort-of-but-not-really emulating /dev/urandom through some stuff the code calls "PerfMon"
1040 2011-06-08 06:34:47 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: umm, yes, openssl's prng is "crypto-strong"
1041 2011-06-08 06:35:00 <jrmithdobbs> if it's not the internet is p well fucked
1042 2011-06-08 06:35:06 <jrmithdobbs> forget bitcoin
1043 2011-06-08 06:35:25 <devon_hillard> so why is RSA keygen so slow then?
1044 2011-06-08 06:35:28 plato has joined
1045 2011-06-08 06:35:48 <gmaxwell> Because RSA private keys need to be large (hopefully) prime numbers.
1046 2011-06-08 06:35:49 <jrmithdobbs> bitcoin uses ecdsa, ec uses much much smaller keys
1047 2011-06-08 06:36:08 <gmaxwell> ECC private keys don't have that kind of structural constrant.
1048 2011-06-08 06:36:20 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_Curve_DSA
1049 2011-06-08 06:36:31 dissipate has joined
1050 2011-06-08 06:36:54 joepie98 is now known as joepie91
1051 2011-06-08 06:37:02 jmpespxoreax has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1052 2011-06-08 06:37:47 zamgo has joined
1053 2011-06-08 06:37:54 <devon_hillard> how's this, if a new keypair is generated for each new transaction, the attacker may have valuable timing info to use
1054 2011-06-08 06:37:57 <doublec> gmaxwell: did you see further back today where someone got banned from their ISP for connecting to the irc channel?
1055 2011-06-08 06:38:06 AnatolV has joined
1056 2011-06-08 06:38:08 <devon_hillard> some people generate a new keypair for each transaction
1057 2011-06-08 06:38:08 <gmaxwell> doublec: !!!
1058 2011-06-08 06:38:12 plutonic has joined
1059 2011-06-08 06:38:30 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: the keys are pre-generated 100 ahead.
1060 2011-06-08 06:38:40 <zamgo> not always 100 ahead
1061 2011-06-08 06:38:47 <doublec> gmaxwell: they suspect he was connecting to a botnet
1062 2011-06-08 06:38:55 Txyru has joined
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1064 2011-06-08 06:38:55 Txyru has joined
1065 2011-06-08 06:39:03 DavidSJ has quit (Quit: DavidSJ)
1066 2011-06-08 06:39:06 <gmaxwell> zamgo: there was some discussion about that behavior today.
1067 2011-06-08 06:39:19 MartianW has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1068 2011-06-08 06:39:21 <gmaxwell> zamgo: now I don't know what the #@$@ it is.
1069 2011-06-08 06:39:33 <zamgo> i'm seen some forum threads about it.. and person losing lotta btc because wallet wasn't pre-100'd
1070 2011-06-08 06:39:49 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: in any case, in the normal use of bitcoin there wouldn't be any timing data. Your sofware also does some fuzzing of its transmission times.
1071 2011-06-08 06:39:50 <zamgo> s/'m /'ve /
1072 2011-06-08 06:40:13 <gmaxwell> zamgo: Well people keep linking to an old one where someone lost 8999 which inspired the precalc
1073 2011-06-08 06:40:30 <gmaxwell> zamgo: but there is a current bug where it doesn't start the 100 ahead process until you get your first address.
1074 2011-06-08 06:40:31 <doublec> gmaxwell: see the logs about 6 hours ago if you're interested
1075 2011-06-08 06:41:17 gsathya has joined
1076 2011-06-08 06:41:18 <gmaxwell> doublec: I don't know what triggered the unfiltering for sureâ I went and whined and people who know people and then it was unblocked here after ~12? ish hours. But it could have been pure coincidence.
1077 2011-06-08 06:41:22 <doublec> http://veritas.maximilianeum.ch/bitcoin/irc/logs/2011/06/08#l1042
1078 2011-06-08 06:41:26 <jrmithdobbs> zamgo: that guy that lost 9k coins was last summer when they were worth ~0.02 or some shit
1079 2011-06-08 06:41:38 <jrmithdobbs> zamgo: and the keypool stuff was implemented in response
1080 2011-06-08 06:42:13 DD- has joined
1081 2011-06-08 06:42:18 <gmaxwell> doublec: there is an #lfnet channel on #lfnet and when someone finally woke up there (after it was unblocked for me) their response was "ah we've been blocked as a botnet before"
1082 2011-06-08 06:42:42 Xunie has joined
1083 2011-06-08 06:42:44 <doublec> gmaxwell: this is a more recent one http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11104
1084 2011-06-08 06:43:01 <doublec> (re: lost coins and preallocating)
1085 2011-06-08 06:43:10 budgie has joined
1086 2011-06-08 06:44:00 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1087 2011-06-08 06:44:45 <gmaxwell> doublec: yea, thats the "doesn't pregenerate until you hit the button" bug, fixed in the encrypted wallet branch. :( :(
1088 2011-06-08 06:45:12 <rusty> k
1089 2011-06-08 06:45:51 <gmaxwell> I really think it should switch to Key_INDEX = HASH(SECRET_BLOB+INDEX) The current behavior has cost people more money than people have lost due to wallet theft.
1090 2011-06-08 06:45:54 <jrmithdobbs> or fixed by immediately running getnewaddress rpc/clicking button in client after wallet creation
1091 2011-06-08 06:46:03 <gmaxwell> And enryption closes the wallet theft window a lot anyways.
1092 2011-06-08 06:46:24 soossii has joined
1093 2011-06-08 06:46:25 <gmaxwell> The 100 pregen stuff is hard to explain to people.
1094 2011-06-08 06:46:47 <mtrlt> i agree that we should use a "deterministic wallet" syste
1095 2011-06-08 06:46:48 <mtrlt> m
1096 2011-06-08 06:47:06 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1097 2011-06-08 06:47:13 <jrmithdobbs> love the resonspes in that thread
1098 2011-06-08 06:47:17 <gmaxwell> They want to think of it as _recieve_ that makes them backup. Send is counterintuitive. Summing two activity types is counterintutive.
1099 2011-06-08 06:47:17 dx25 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1100 2011-06-08 06:47:18 Kurtov has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1101 2011-06-08 06:47:31 <jrmithdobbs> "hurr dd your whole harddrive!!" umm, ya that doesn't help when it was never written to the drive in the first place :(
1102 2011-06-08 06:47:59 <devon_hillard> are there contingency plans in case the crypto-primitives bitcoin is buint on are found vulnerable in the future?
1103 2011-06-08 06:48:04 <gmaxwell> 100 is enough that you can be a little lazy with backups, but not so much that you can be really lazy.
1104 2011-06-08 06:48:08 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: yes
1105 2011-06-08 06:48:20 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: they can all be swapped out pretty easily
1106 2011-06-08 06:48:35 <gmaxwell> devon_hillard: Yes, swap them out with the swap tied to a particular block number. Fairly straight forward.
1107 2011-06-08 06:48:37 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: especially ecdsa since those keys aren't even used in the protocol
1108 2011-06-08 06:49:06 <jrmithdobbs> devon_hillard: the actual assignment of coins in txns is done by a forth-like script, it's not just a blink pubkey signing
1109 2011-06-08 06:49:10 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: just would require a new opcode to change the signatures.
1110 2011-06-08 06:49:43 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: not even that depending on what's being switched to if the disabled ones get turned back on
1111 2011-06-08 06:49:54 dx25 has joined
1112 2011-06-08 06:49:57 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: most sig check routines can be implemented with the ops in the spec ;P
1113 2011-06-08 06:50:06 <gmaxwell> The hashes are a bit harder to change but are also probably less likely to generate an actually practical attack.
1114 2011-06-08 06:50:28 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: if not efficiently
1115 2011-06-08 06:51:19 <gmaxwell> It would be interesting to evaluate the security of "weakened bitcoin" e.g. using MD5.
1116 2011-06-08 06:51:56 <mtrlt> gmaxwell: that's a good idea.
1117 2011-06-08 06:51:58 <gmaxwell> I don't think that any of the currently pratical attacks on MD5, for example, would be especially devistating in the context of bitcoin. Though I'd want to think about that more carefully before saying for sure.
1118 2011-06-08 06:52:11 <jrmithdobbs> theorhetically it'd be worse, in all honesty, i don't think it would make a practical difference for a few more years
1119 2011-06-08 06:52:29 <jrmithdobbs> ya exactly
1120 2011-06-08 06:52:54 d1234_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1121 2011-06-08 06:53:09 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1123 2011-06-08 06:53:32 devon_hillard has joined
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1126 2011-06-08 06:53:57 <gmaxwell> someone linked to some crap paper earlier today asserting that bitcoin isn't distributed because 'there is no distributed system for changing out the crypto'
1127 2011-06-08 06:54:25 <jrmithdobbs> some of the papers/commentary coming out are retarded
1128 2011-06-08 06:54:35 <jrmithdobbs> s/some/most/
1129 2011-06-08 06:54:38 plato has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1130 2011-06-08 06:54:45 <gmaxwell> (because they decided to define all the client software authors adopting something new as of block XX, and all the users upgrading as non-distributed)
1131 2011-06-08 06:54:53 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1132 2011-06-08 06:55:18 <gmaxwell> (well, I don't think they actually realized the change could be tied to a block number either)
1133 2011-06-08 06:56:16 larsivi has joined
1134 2011-06-08 06:56:17 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: oh man, brtfs isn't distributed either then! what happens if we lose scsi/sas over night and our nodes can't automagically heal!?!
1135 2011-06-08 06:56:29 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
1136 2011-06-08 06:57:58 dissipate has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1137 2011-06-08 06:58:03 gasteve has joined
1138 2011-06-08 06:59:40 <zamgo> has anyone thought of setting up bitcoin honeypots? for anyone scanning for open wallets
1139 2011-06-08 07:01:35 <devon_hillard> how do you 'scan for open wallets'? what is an open wallet?
1140 2011-06-08 07:01:57 <zamgo> any bitcoind running with an open port
1141 2011-06-08 07:02:05 <zamgo> or hackable user/pass
1142 2011-06-08 07:02:22 <devon_hillard> ok, say I have an open port, what then?
1143 2011-06-08 07:02:41 <zamgo> then I can login via json rpc calls, and send all your bitcoins away
1144 2011-06-08 07:02:58 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1145 2011-06-08 07:03:10 Blitzboom has joined
1146 2011-06-08 07:03:10 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
1147 2011-06-08 07:03:10 Blitzboom has joined
1148 2011-06-08 07:03:11 <devon_hillard> ah, remote desktop with easy password
1149 2011-06-08 07:03:23 <zamgo> kinda
1150 2011-06-08 07:03:38 <devon_hillard> or web-facing passworded ssh
1151 2011-06-08 07:03:56 <devon_hillard> s/web/net/
1152 2011-06-08 07:04:14 <zamgo> ja...
1153 2011-06-08 07:04:57 <zamgo> -rpallowip=*
1154 2011-06-08 07:05:55 dentldir has joined
1155 2011-06-08 07:05:57 TD has joined
1156 2011-06-08 07:06:09 Kurtov has joined
1157 2011-06-08 07:07:02 <dirtyfilthy> every time incredibly volatile mtgox goes up my $1 it's all "omg it's going to $1000" and everytime it falls by $1 it's "omg it's going to 0.50c"
1158 2011-06-08 07:07:12 <dirtyfilthy> fucking retarded
1159 2011-06-08 07:08:02 <devon_hillard> it's a fun hobby, but some folks are pouring real money into the fire
1160 2011-06-08 07:09:07 zyb has joined
1161 2011-06-08 07:09:35 <devon_hillard> wow $28
1162 2011-06-08 07:10:48 <mtrlt> dirtyfilthy: that's human nature :p
1163 2011-06-08 07:11:52 <lfm> yup humans are retarded
1164 2011-06-08 07:12:34 <devon_hillard> https://mtgox.com/trade/megaChart
1165 2011-06-08 07:12:57 vigilyn has joined
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1169 2011-06-08 07:14:10 AnatolV has joined
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1171 2011-06-08 07:21:12 gjs278 has joined
1172 2011-06-08 07:21:13 Gunni has joined
1173 2011-06-08 07:21:25 <Gunni> headers.h:43:20: fatal error: db_cxx.h: No such file or directory
1174 2011-06-08 07:21:45 <gjs278> Gunni
1175 2011-06-08 07:21:47 <gjs278> are you on gentoo
1176 2011-06-08 07:21:50 <Gunni> that file doesn't exist anywhere but i have a so file for it
1177 2011-06-08 07:21:51 <Gunni> no
1178 2011-06-08 07:22:06 <gjs278> check inside /usr/include/db-4.8
1179 2011-06-08 07:22:08 <gjs278> or something like taht
1180 2011-06-08 07:22:40 <Gunni> . /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdb_cxx-4.8.so this is the only file containing db_cxx on my testmachine
1181 2011-06-08 07:23:15 hydrogenesis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1182 2011-06-08 07:23:17 <Gunni> might need to install something, right?
1183 2011-06-08 07:23:22 <gjs278> yes
1184 2011-06-08 07:23:27 <gjs278> berkely database
1185 2011-06-08 07:23:44 hydrogenesis has joined
1186 2011-06-08 07:24:13 <Gunni> can't find it, you know about a package for it for ubuntu?
1187 2011-06-08 07:24:41 <glicth-mod> db?
1188 2011-06-08 07:24:50 <Gunni> just db?
1189 2011-06-08 07:24:58 <Gunni> i searched for berkely :P
1190 2011-06-08 07:25:13 <glicth-mod> dbs maybe
1191 2011-06-08 07:25:18 <doublec> Gunni: libdb4.7++-dev
1192 2011-06-08 07:25:39 Txyru` has joined
1193 2011-06-08 07:26:56 <Gunni> yay works
1194 2011-06-08 07:27:00 <Gunni> compilin'
1195 2011-06-08 07:27:04 <Gunni> ty
1196 2011-06-08 07:27:07 <doublec> np
1197 2011-06-08 07:28:27 Txyru has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1198 2011-06-08 07:29:19 <devon_hillard> haha, a self-described bitcoin ponzi scheme: http://fxnet.bitlex.org/ (caveat emptor)
1199 2011-06-08 07:29:21 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
1200 2011-06-08 07:29:23 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129336 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1703 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes, and 45 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 689919.81366116
1201 2011-06-08 07:30:07 Sylph has joined
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1207 2011-06-08 07:38:41 LightRider is now known as LightRider|afk
1208 2011-06-08 07:40:04 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1209 2011-06-08 07:42:27 xelister has joined
1210 2011-06-08 07:42:37 <xelister> heeey I resolved the ATI-dont-work on Ubuntu maverick bug
1211 2011-06-08 07:42:52 <gjs278> did you have to reformat
1212 2011-06-08 07:43:06 <xelister> they buy mistake for a moment enabled downloads of wrong kernel version (.38 instead .35) in repos..... :> problem?
1213 2011-06-08 07:45:00 <xelister> "2.6.38 based kernel) was accidentally copied to lucid-proposed and maverick-proposed, and thus had been on the master archive.ubuntu.com between 09:00 and 14:00 UTC." problem users? :don't care face:
1214 2011-06-08 07:45:33 <gjs278> you can't even use ati-drivers on .39
1215 2011-06-08 07:46:00 <xelister> yea. well for .39 there seem to be patches floating around
1216 2011-06-08 07:46:16 <jrmithdobbs> ati needs to fix their driver
1217 2011-06-08 07:46:51 <xelister> and hardware
1218 2011-06-08 07:47:03 <jrmithdobbs> and business model
1219 2011-06-08 07:47:12 <jrmithdobbs> also s/ati/amd/
1220 2011-06-08 07:47:21 <xelister> you know that 4xxx and 5xxx cards all have hardware bug making them not properly show mouse cursor and often hard freeze when moving mouse?
1221 2011-06-08 07:47:24 zamgo has left ()
1222 2011-06-08 07:47:28 <xelister> HARDWARE BUG
1223 2011-06-08 07:47:41 <xelister> 5970 - 500 USD
1224 2011-06-08 07:47:45 <xelister> 4 GB VRAM
1225 2011-06-08 07:47:51 <xelister> Mouse support: NO
1226 2011-06-08 07:47:52 <xelister> lol.
1227 2011-06-08 07:47:58 <jrmithdobbs> more like $750 usd
1228 2011-06-08 07:48:01 <jrmithdobbs> thx bitcoin
1229 2011-06-08 07:48:05 <xelister> ;)
1230 2011-06-08 07:48:07 <gjs278> mine freeze if you go offscreen sometimes
1231 2011-06-08 07:48:11 <xelister> gjs278: yeap
1232 2011-06-08 07:48:26 <xelister> gjs278: if you are luck it doesn't freeze, it just changes cursor to random skewed bitmap shit :D
1233 2011-06-08 07:48:56 <xelister> 1995's S3 TRIO card DOES BETTER JOB AT RENDERING MOUSE CURSOR. lol.
1234 2011-06-08 07:49:20 <gjs278> I still crash mplayer if I run in -f0
1235 2011-06-08 07:49:23 <gjs278> well
1236 2011-06-08 07:49:29 <gjs278> f0 on the other cards currently not using my display
1237 2011-06-08 07:49:29 <xelister> *type* *type* *type* Look mom Im coding hardware cursor blit.... *type* *type* ok... I have no Idea what I'm doing :D :don't care:
1238 2011-06-08 07:49:38 d1234 has joined
1239 2011-06-08 07:50:42 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1240 2011-06-08 07:50:51 * xelister randomly reassigns pins in VHDL ... ok the mouse is still moving I guess... lets ship this shit and call it a day
1241 2011-06-08 07:51:32 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: the s3 trio was a p gr8 card tho
1242 2011-06-08 07:51:35 <jrmithdobbs> that's not fair
1243 2011-06-08 07:51:43 larsivi has joined
1244 2011-06-08 07:51:47 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
1245 2011-06-08 07:52:35 <xelister> perhaps 7xxx cards will rock
1246 2011-06-08 07:52:44 <gjs278> no
1247 2011-06-08 07:52:49 <gjs278> amd is too noob
1248 2011-06-08 07:52:51 <xelister> firing old Ati team was probably a good move
1249 2011-06-08 07:52:57 <xelister> AMD != Ati
1250 2011-06-08 07:53:12 <xelister> afair they did fire original Ati thing, what more could we hope for :)
1251 2011-06-08 07:53:13 <gjs278> I trace it back to the parent company
1252 2011-06-08 07:53:41 <jrmithdobbs> ya iirc they fired most of the ati guys
1253 2011-06-08 07:53:59 <xelister> \o/
1254 2011-06-08 07:54:23 joepie91 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1255 2011-06-08 07:54:53 joepie91 has joined
1256 2011-06-08 07:55:09 <twitcoins> Anybody going to AFDS?
1257 2011-06-08 07:56:55 <xelister> That means, if you have proposed updates enabled on your 10.04 LTS (lucid) or 10.10 (maverick) Ubuntu installation, and did a system upgrade during that time, it might have pulled in the 2.6.38 kernel.
1258 2011-06-08 07:57:00 <xelister> trololo lolo lololo
1259 2011-06-08 07:57:13 <xelister> why Im still surprised
1260 2011-06-08 07:57:38 <jrmithdobbs> i only care when their retardedness gets merged back into debian tbqh
1261 2011-06-08 07:57:48 Welvis has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1262 2011-06-08 07:58:00 <xelister> ^- "Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org)"
1263 2011-06-08 07:58:06 <jrmithdobbs> see: sudo fiasco of implementing NEW CODE that just did what env_reset does WITH NO WAY TO TURN IT OFF
1264 2011-06-08 07:58:10 <jrmithdobbs> jackasses
1265 2011-06-08 07:58:53 <jrmithdobbs> also, wasn't the openssl fiasco a ubuntu tard?
1266 2011-06-08 07:58:56 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
1267 2011-06-08 07:59:03 <xelister> nope, it was debian
1268 2011-06-08 07:59:07 <jrmithdobbs> damn
1269 2011-06-08 07:59:20 <jrmithdobbs> i'll blame ubuntu anyways
1270 2011-06-08 07:59:27 <xelister> wait what
1271 2011-06-08 07:59:30 <xelister> @25 ?????????????????
1272 2011-06-08 07:59:32 <jrmithdobbs> was probably their maintainers bitching about the valgrind warnings anyways
1273 2011-06-08 07:59:33 <gjs278> higher
1274 2011-06-08 07:59:35 <gjs278> 27
1275 2011-06-08 07:59:36 <xelister> TROLOLOLO LOLO LOLOL
1276 2011-06-08 07:59:40 <xelister> I dont fucking care
1277 2011-06-08 07:59:45 * xelister puts all in a safe
1278 2011-06-08 07:59:47 * xelister burries it
1279 2011-06-08 07:59:59 <jrmithdobbs> hit 28.3 earlier
1280 2011-06-08 08:00:06 <xelister> what the fuck...
1281 2011-06-08 08:00:07 <gjs278> I paid 20 bitcoins on monday for two 5850's, they were $18 when I sent
1282 2011-06-08 08:00:07 <xelister> 25
1283 2011-06-08 08:00:09 <xelister> 28
1284 2011-06-08 08:00:13 <jrmithdobbs> ps: bitcoin: Officially More Valuable than MSFT
1285 2011-06-08 08:00:17 <gjs278> by the time I get them they will be like $30
1286 2011-06-08 08:00:21 <jrmithdobbs> (seriously)
1287 2011-06-08 08:00:22 <xelister> when it will hit 100?
1288 2011-06-08 08:00:25 <gjs278> silver
1289 2011-06-08 08:00:31 <gjs278> is going to be worthless than a bitcoin
1290 2011-06-08 08:00:44 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: microsoft shares already are
1291 2011-06-08 08:00:46 <jrmithdobbs> lollol
1292 2011-06-08 08:00:48 <gjs278> lol
1293 2011-06-08 08:01:10 <xelister> ;; bc,gen 700000
1294 2011-06-08 08:01:11 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 700000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 1.24097939523 BTC per day and 0.0517074748014 BTC per hour.
1295 2011-06-08 08:01:14 zyb has joined
1296 2011-06-08 08:01:15 <jrmithdobbs> someone should /topic BitCoin: More Valuable Than MSFT
1297 2011-06-08 08:01:35 <gjs278> taking payments in bitcoins is awesome
1298 2011-06-08 08:01:57 <jrmithdobbs> i feel like a dick
1299 2011-06-08 08:02:12 <jrmithdobbs> we sold off our mining gear because diff got to where it wasn't going to be practical to keep up
1300 2011-06-08 08:02:16 <jrmithdobbs> for @new price
1301 2011-06-08 08:02:18 <jrmithdobbs> in btc
1302 2011-06-08 08:02:28 <jrmithdobbs> at 7d average back when that was ~6.9
1303 2011-06-08 08:02:31 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1304 2011-06-08 08:02:32 <gjs278> yeah I got the new stuff form a guy who was giving up
1305 2011-06-08 08:02:40 <jrmithdobbs> (and it was trading at 8.5)
1306 2011-06-08 08:02:48 <gjs278> I remember 8.5 like it was a week ago
1307 2011-06-08 08:02:54 <jrmithdobbs> 2
1308 2011-06-08 08:02:55 <jrmithdobbs> lol
1309 2011-06-08 08:03:04 <xelister> I remember when I was happy because of @0.85
1310 2011-06-08 08:03:12 <xelister> and then Blitzboom boubht our coins
1311 2011-06-08 08:03:13 <gjs278> when it hit $18 I hit the selll button way too hard
1312 2011-06-08 08:03:14 <xelister> :-E
1313 2011-06-08 08:03:30 <jrmithdobbs> gjs278: really? even knowing jgarzik had the cbs interview today?
1314 2011-06-08 08:03:38 <gjs278> I didnt know it at the time
1315 2011-06-08 08:03:42 <jrmithdobbs> ah
1316 2011-06-08 08:03:47 <xelister> jrmithdobbs: url? .mpeg?
1317 2011-06-08 08:03:48 <jrmithdobbs> pay attention!
1318 2011-06-08 08:03:55 <gjs278> plus it was 18 stale for about two days, so that's decades in bitcoin time
1319 2011-06-08 08:03:56 Phoebus has joined
1320 2011-06-08 08:04:07 <jrmithdobbs> xelister: it's in the log somewhere. just a bad transcript though
1321 2011-06-08 08:04:22 <jrmithdobbs> the transcript/summary is awful, the actual video was p gud
1322 2011-06-08 08:05:14 <Eremes> do u need identical gpu to crosfire ? can i cross 5970 and 6990 on 1 mobo ?
1323 2011-06-08 08:07:17 <jrmithdobbs> #bitcoin-mining
1324 2011-06-08 08:08:08 yrashk has quit (Quit: leaving)
1325 2011-06-08 08:08:33 <xelister> Eremes: you want to disable xfire. Amd will troll you on this subject too
1326 2011-06-08 08:09:05 GarrettB has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1327 2011-06-08 08:09:19 <jrmithdobbs> those are pretty much just connectors that get in the way of shoving more cards in a chassis
1328 2011-06-08 08:09:41 <jrmithdobbs> (cause you have to make sure they don't contact shit they shouldn't ;P)
1329 2011-06-08 08:10:10 <Eremes> so 5970 & 6990 on same mobo is not good ?
1330 2011-06-08 08:10:12 TheAncientGoat has joined
1331 2011-06-08 08:10:34 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
1332 2011-06-08 08:10:36 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":28.678,"low":18.4,"vol":80385,"buy":25.8501,"sell":26,"last":25.8501}}
1333 2011-06-08 08:11:09 davux has joined
1334 2011-06-08 08:11:13 <davux> hi!
1335 2011-06-08 08:11:45 <davux> can anyone send me TESTNET bitcoins to mfwqb7JpwG4KR48Rvf5w5Go8GxjHDKSF5V please?
1336 2011-06-08 08:12:00 osmosis has joined
1337 2011-06-08 08:12:11 <spq> sent
1338 2011-06-08 08:12:18 <davux> thanks spq
1339 2011-06-08 08:13:16 <spq> np
1340 2011-06-08 08:14:08 dedeibel has joined
1341 2011-06-08 08:17:16 <davux> are there plans to push the decimals allowed by default bitcoin client?
1342 2011-06-08 08:17:29 <davux> 2 decimals is starting to be quite imprecise
1343 2011-06-08 08:17:44 picci has joined
1344 2011-06-08 08:18:24 <davux> I live in mexico, and you can't charge, say, 5 pesos in bitcoins with a 2 decimal precision
1345 2011-06-08 08:18:42 Welvis has joined
1346 2011-06-08 08:18:46 <jrmithdobbs> davux: yes being discussed
1347 2011-06-08 08:19:18 <jrmithdobbs> davux: growing pains, noone thought there'd be this much interest this quickly i think
1348 2011-06-08 08:19:28 <davux> yup
1349 2011-06-08 08:19:48 <davux> i don't understand why there's a limit at all in the interface
1350 2011-06-08 08:20:01 <jrmithdobbs> well
1351 2011-06-08 08:20:21 <davux> moreover, the RPC interface doesn't have such a limit
1352 2011-06-08 08:20:22 <jrmithdobbs> until 3.21 you couldn't even see balances before two decimal places
1353 2011-06-08 08:20:24 <davux> only the GUI
1354 2011-06-08 08:20:33 <jrmithdobbs> err after
1355 2011-06-08 08:21:19 <jrmithdobbs> davux: when 1 coin was worth $0.20usd it made sense ... ;P
1356 2011-06-08 08:21:28 phlax has joined
1357 2011-06-08 08:21:37 <davux> why did it make sense?
1358 2011-06-08 08:21:41 <jrmithdobbs> davux: it was to prevent spamming lots of low-value txns and flooding the network with useless work
1359 2011-06-08 08:21:53 <davux> it was harmless, yes, but why was it a good thing?
1360 2011-06-08 08:21:57 B0g4r7 has joined
1361 2011-06-08 08:22:01 <davux> oh
1362 2011-06-08 08:22:02 picci has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1363 2011-06-08 08:22:08 <davux> I see
1364 2011-06-08 08:22:08 <TheAncientGoat> jeebs. 5 dollar jump while I was sleeping?
1365 2011-06-08 08:22:10 <jrmithdobbs> now that value has skyrocketed those txns aren't really spam
1366 2011-06-08 08:22:18 <jrmithdobbs> TheAncientGoat: that'll teach you to sleep
1367 2011-06-08 08:22:43 <TheAncientGoat> This is bloody nitroglycerine
1368 2011-06-08 08:23:41 <davux> now that I'm into bitcoin I understand those clichés of wallstreet guys staring at screens and yelling in phones like crazy
1369 2011-06-08 08:23:53 <nathan7> TheAncientGoat: Nitroglycerin is a terrible explosive for a number of reasons.
1370 2011-06-08 08:24:36 <TheAncientGoat> nathan7: Heh, yeah, but I'm pointing out the parralels :P
1371 2011-06-08 08:24:55 <davux> is there any development being made on bitcoin client?
1372 2011-06-08 08:25:12 <nathan7> It's hard to get to detonate properly but will make a sizeable explosion easily when handled improperly.
1373 2011-06-08 08:25:14 <jrmithdobbs> davux: what do you mean? there was a new version like 3 days ago
1374 2011-06-08 08:25:24 <davux> oh
1375 2011-06-08 08:25:32 <davux> i missed that
1376 2011-06-08 08:26:27 Marcel has joined
1377 2011-06-08 08:28:23 rusty has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1378 2011-06-08 08:29:06 retinal has joined
1379 2011-06-08 08:31:12 <jrmithdobbs> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/dc811f4ca620b0b39467fed34dce5644899c09f949468c0547f1d5495c80c7e2
1380 2011-06-08 08:31:19 <jrmithdobbs> why did that txn (not mine) require a fee?
1381 2011-06-08 08:31:42 <jrmithdobbs> prompted for one apparently
1382 2011-06-08 08:31:45 <jrmithdobbs> in 3.21
1383 2011-06-08 08:32:54 amiller_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1384 2011-06-08 08:33:05 <TheAncientGoat> Btw, guys, I had a deliciously evil idea last night
1385 2011-06-08 08:33:12 <TheAncientGoat> DRM using bitcoin }:D
1386 2011-06-08 08:33:52 <TheAncientGoat> You embed a micro bitcoin client, that only decrypts a file if it recieves a payment with the encryption key as a message
1387 2011-06-08 08:34:45 <jrmithdobbs> not a bad idea at all
1388 2011-06-08 08:35:43 <TheAncientGoat> Bitcoin could be a very good security measure like that, as you can't falsify permission without breaking the network somehow
1389 2011-06-08 08:35:45 brunner has joined
1390 2011-06-08 08:37:22 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: because the input tx wasn't old enough.
1391 2011-06-08 08:37:26 <davux> mail servers could accept bitcoin payments attached to emails and then substract a few points of spam probability
1392 2011-06-08 08:37:36 <gmaxwell> (I speculate)
1393 2011-06-08 08:38:13 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ahh good point
1394 2011-06-08 08:38:32 wistiu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1395 2011-06-08 08:38:58 <davux> 0.00000001 BTC for every email sent
1396 2011-06-08 08:39:17 <davux> very cheap for everyday use, unaffordable for spammers
1397 2011-06-08 08:39:28 <jrmithdobbs> 18 blocks is old enough it shouldn't have caused one i thought?
1398 2011-06-08 08:39:38 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1399 2011-06-08 08:39:43 vikarti has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1400 2011-06-08 08:40:17 <jrmithdobbs> ok, thet cat is now telling me to go to bed (seriously)
1401 2011-06-08 08:40:21 <jrmithdobbs> spoiled brat
1402 2011-06-08 08:40:26 amiller_ has joined
1403 2011-06-08 08:40:33 <davux> haha
1404 2011-06-08 08:40:53 <jrmithdobbs> i'm serious, she gets to a point where she starts walking up and sticking her face in mine until i do
1405 2011-06-08 08:41:01 <jrmithdobbs> p annoying
1406 2011-06-08 08:41:40 vikarti has joined
1407 2011-06-08 08:44:54 altamic has joined
1408 2011-06-08 08:45:08 mickey has joined
1409 2011-06-08 08:45:10 hydrogenesis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1410 2011-06-08 08:46:19 <Phoebus> 26 cents per transfer, people. We're getting there to beating cc's on cost :P
1411 2011-06-08 08:46:29 slush1 has joined
1412 2011-06-08 08:46:36 <jrmithdobbs> huh?
1413 2011-06-08 08:46:41 <[Tycho]> Transactions are free
1414 2011-06-08 08:46:48 <jrmithdobbs> seriously
1415 2011-06-08 08:46:59 <jrmithdobbs> if your txns aren't free you're doing something you probably shouldn't
1416 2011-06-08 08:47:01 <[Tycho]> At leas while my pool is working :)
1417 2011-06-08 08:47:05 <Phoebus> 0.01*26 is not free.
1418 2011-06-08 08:47:05 altamic has quit (Client Quit)
1419 2011-06-08 08:47:17 <[Tycho]> Fee is 0.00, not 0.01
1420 2011-06-08 08:47:20 <Phoebus> jrmithdobbs, explain.
1421 2011-06-08 08:47:36 <[Tycho]> May be you need to use .19 client version
1422 2011-06-08 08:47:54 <[Tycho]> It doesn't forces fees.
1423 2011-06-08 08:47:55 <jrmithdobbs> Phoebus: your txns only require a fee if: a) you're using a whole bunch of tiny inputs and therefore create a HUGE txn
1424 2011-06-08 08:48:06 <jrmithdobbs> Phoebus: b) you send less than .01 in a single txn
1425 2011-06-08 08:48:25 rusty has joined
1426 2011-06-08 08:48:32 <Phoebus> So it costs more to send less btc? I'm confused now.
1427 2011-06-08 08:48:33 <jrmithdobbs> Phoebus: c) you xfer too quickly after coming into control of them (I forget exact limit)
1428 2011-06-08 08:48:42 Phoebus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1429 2011-06-08 08:49:15 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm / jgarzik: someone needs to update the wording in the gui fee screen
1430 2011-06-08 08:49:23 <Moonies> can someone point me to a tool that'll help me visualize/link blockexplorer transactions?
1431 2011-06-08 08:49:34 Phoebus has joined
1432 2011-06-08 08:50:05 <Phoebus> Repeat anything said after b) :P
1433 2011-06-08 08:50:35 <Phoebus> Using 3.21.-beta guess I should upgrade?
1434 2011-06-08 08:51:08 TommyBoy3G has quit ()
1435 2011-06-08 08:51:16 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1436 2011-06-08 08:52:47 Mononofu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1437 2011-06-08 08:53:09 <jrmithdobbs> Phoebus: c) you xfer too quickly after coming into control of them (I forget exact limit)
1438 2011-06-08 08:53:40 <Phoebus> ahem ok so in B if you transfer too small of a btc amount it actually costs you more? :P
1439 2011-06-08 08:53:48 <jrmithdobbs> correct
1440 2011-06-08 08:53:53 <Phoebus> Weird
1441 2011-06-08 08:54:10 <jrmithdobbs> it's to prevent tiny spam txns that clog up the pending txns
1442 2011-06-08 08:54:14 <jrmithdobbs> memory pool
1443 2011-06-08 08:54:38 <jrmithdobbs> the exact values are going to have to be reevaluated as prices continue soaring
1444 2011-06-08 08:54:52 <Phoebus> Yeah but what about legit donations, at what decimal does this kick in?
1445 2011-06-08 08:54:56 <Phoebus> ok
1446 2011-06-08 08:55:11 <jrmithdobbs> anything <0.01
1447 2011-06-08 08:55:29 TommyBoy3G has joined
1448 2011-06-08 08:55:55 <Phoebus> This is already unfair, what if I want to send someone 5 cents worth. Suddently btc is not good for microtransactions :P
1449 2011-06-08 08:56:22 ollmn has joined
1450 2011-06-08 08:56:30 <vegard> pools could easily provide a microtransaction service by letting people who pay them a small sum have unlimited microtransactions that are guaranteed to be included in blocks generated at the pool
1451 2011-06-08 08:56:59 ollmn has left ()
1452 2011-06-08 08:57:26 <Phoebus> ugg...
1453 2011-06-08 08:57:35 <jrmithdobbs> Phoebus: it never was good for microtransactions
1454 2011-06-08 08:57:56 <spq> where can i find a description of what is happening when mining? i know its sha256(sha256(x)) but dont know exactly what x is - and whats variable in x
1455 2011-06-08 08:57:57 <jrmithdobbs> vegard: exactly, hoorah capitalism
1456 2011-06-08 08:57:59 <gmaxwell> it was more micro than, say, credit cards... but thats not really micro.
1457 2011-06-08 08:58:17 <gmaxwell> spq: http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
1458 2011-06-08 08:58:21 <gmaxwell> spq: read the paper.
1459 2011-06-08 08:59:00 <ersi> So, how large is a transaction that is 'large' and would need a transaction fee?
1460 2011-06-08 09:01:57 <jrmithdobbs> 1KB
1461 2011-06-08 09:02:16 <jrmithdobbs> as an example
1462 2011-06-08 09:02:35 <jrmithdobbs> most sane txns with a single input are <400bytes
1463 2011-06-08 09:02:41 <jrmithdobbs> no matter coin value
1464 2011-06-08 09:03:46 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzikreally should have pointed out on cbs that this fact discourages money laundering ;P
1465 2011-06-08 17:31:22 wumpus has joined
1466 2011-06-08 17:31:35 gsathya has joined
1467 2011-06-08 17:31:36 takezo420_ has left ()
1468 2011-06-08 17:32:18 MacRohard has joined
1469 2011-06-08 17:32:49 <phantomcircuit> tippenein, the issue is that the connect call timeout is ~5 minutes on linux with syscookies (ie all distros)
1470 2011-06-08 17:33:09 <phantomcircuit> tippenein, there is a patch available if you feel comfortable building your own binary
1471 2011-06-08 17:33:15 kika_ has joined
1472 2011-06-08 17:33:23 <tippenein> ok. I didn't wait 5 minutes for the other 3, but Gavin's node is definitely down then
1473 2011-06-08 17:33:55 <tippenein> sure. where is it?
1474 2011-06-08 17:34:33 <gps__> what's the best way to build on ubuntu, is there an article somewhere?
1475 2011-06-08 17:34:54 <phantomcircuit> tippenein, let me see if it's in the mainline git HEAD
1476 2011-06-08 17:35:30 takezo420 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1477 2011-06-08 17:35:42 <phantomcircuit> tippenein, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/300
1478 2011-06-08 17:36:12 <tippenein> thanks phantom
1479 2011-06-08 17:36:31 <tippenein> also, what's the cmd for current block count?
1480 2011-06-08 17:36:33 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1481 2011-06-08 17:36:38 <eps1> ;;bc,mtgox
1482 2011-06-08 17:36:38 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":31.89,"low":18.6,"vol":102336,"buy":31.6,"sell":31.89,"last":31.8821}}
1483 2011-06-08 17:36:50 mayr has joined
1484 2011-06-08 17:37:10 <kika_> so bitcoin is vulnerable to quantum computer attacks on the signing algoritm ?
1485 2011-06-08 17:37:15 <phantomcircuit> tippenein, the rpc command?
1486 2011-06-08 17:37:26 * gps__ thanks iz for helping. you da man
1487 2011-06-08 17:37:37 <tippenein> no, the irc cmd for block count #
1488 2011-06-08 17:37:43 <phantomcircuit> kika_, theoretically but the signing algorithm could be improved substantially
1489 2011-06-08 17:37:44 <gps__> or women i guess. not very many of them around here
1490 2011-06-08 17:37:48 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
1491 2011-06-08 17:37:48 <gribble> 129410
1492 2011-06-08 17:37:56 <tippenein> thanks gribble
1493 2011-06-08 17:38:02 <kika_> phantomcircuit: why theorically and not practically ?
1494 2011-06-08 17:38:21 <phantomcircuit> kika_, as gmaxwell informed me, lots of qbits needed
1495 2011-06-08 17:38:40 Kiba has joined
1496 2011-06-08 17:38:42 <phantomcircuit> and as i've realized the client could be using symmetric crypto with a single opcode addition
1497 2011-06-08 17:38:45 <tippenein> kika_, do you have a nice quantum computer lying around?
1498 2011-06-08 17:38:52 <phantomcircuit> which will hopefully be possible at somepoint in the future
1499 2011-06-08 17:38:52 <kika_> phantomcircuit: yes, however i think the govs already have quantum computers with enought qbits
1500 2011-06-08 17:39:29 <phantomcircuit> kika_, i seriously doubt it, not to mention if they did do you really think bitcoin is what they'd use it for?
1501 2011-06-08 17:39:33 <Kiba> yo
1502 2011-06-08 17:39:35 <kika_> tippenein: i dont have a quantum computer however i think very big quantum computers already exists
1503 2011-06-08 17:39:39 <phantomcircuit> more importantly
1504 2011-06-08 17:39:39 <Kiba> what happen if you accidently shut down your VPS?
1505 2011-06-08 17:39:40 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/300#issuecomment-1327989
1506 2011-06-08 17:39:41 <phantomcircuit> lulz
1507 2011-06-08 17:39:54 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, depends on the host
1508 2011-06-08 17:40:11 <kika_> phantomcircuit: and what they will worry then ?
1509 2011-06-08 17:40:42 <Kiba> so where is Magical Tux?
1510 2011-06-08 17:40:42 JA has joined
1511 2011-06-08 17:40:59 <justmoon> Kiba: my guess: guantanamo :P
1512 2011-06-08 17:41:03 <kika_> so the best public / private asymetric algoritm for asymetric crypt is elliptic curve cryptography ?
1513 2011-06-08 17:41:14 zyb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1514 2011-06-08 17:41:31 <gmaxwell> kika_: define best?
1515 2011-06-08 17:41:48 <kika_> gmaxwell: more secure to protect a secret
1516 2011-06-08 17:41:49 <gmaxwell> ECC is fast and space efficient (for a given security level) which is good for bitcoin.
1517 2011-06-08 17:42:02 <Kiba> justmoon: well, I accidently shut down the VPS for bitcoinweekly
1518 2011-06-08 17:42:13 <kika_> gmaxwell: i mean the one thats harder to attack
1519 2011-06-08 17:42:18 <justmoon> Kiba: hmm, damn
1520 2011-06-08 17:42:20 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1521 2011-06-08 17:42:40 <gmaxwell> kika_: it's weak against very very large quantum computers (which are deeply hypothetical at this point), there are other asymetric schemes which are not, but they are terribly space inefficient and may have other weaknesses.
1522 2011-06-08 17:42:44 <justmoon> Kiba: need temporary webspace?
1523 2011-06-08 17:42:45 <kika_> i think i can use ECC using 10204 bits keysizes right ? or keysizes can go to up 512 bits for ECC?
1524 2011-06-08 17:42:53 <Kiba> justmoon: I don't think I can move that fast
1525 2011-06-08 17:42:54 <gmaxwell> kika_: other than that, ecc is fine.
1526 2011-06-08 17:42:58 IncitatusOnWater has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1527 2011-06-08 17:43:06 <tippenein> what does status 'offline?' mea?
1528 2011-06-08 17:43:06 <gmaxwell> kika_: it could go to â bits...
1529 2011-06-08 17:43:11 <tippenein> mean*
1530 2011-06-08 17:43:16 <justmoon> Kiba: ok, well, you can reach me anytime weusecoins@justmoon.net if you need something
1531 2011-06-08 17:43:17 <gmaxwell> â bits might take a while.
1532 2011-06-08 17:43:30 <kika_> gmaxwell: so you think the best asymetric crypt to protect a secret nowadays is ecc?
1533 2011-06-08 17:43:47 <gmaxwell> kika_: yes. Or use symmetric cryptoâ¦
1534 2011-06-08 17:43:55 <kika_> gmaxwell: i need asymetric
1535 2011-06-08 17:44:08 <kika_> gmaxwell: â bits might take a while.<-- to encrypt? or decreypt ? to generate the key ?
1536 2011-06-08 17:44:30 <phantomcircuit> tippenein, means the tx wasn't sent to any node
1537 2011-06-08 17:44:37 sabalaba has joined
1538 2011-06-08 17:44:41 <phantomcircuit> Kiba, what vps provider?
1539 2011-06-08 17:44:52 <kika_> gmaxwell: i dont mind if it takes a while to encrypt or generate the key as long it can provide me the best security in the world to protect a secret
1540 2011-06-08 17:44:53 <justmoon> AutoVPS I assume
1541 2011-06-08 17:45:00 <justmoon> that's the one tux runs
1542 2011-06-08 17:45:03 <kika_> gmaxwell: what do you recommend for this ?
1543 2011-06-08 17:45:04 <tippenein> phantomcircuit, so will they ever be processed?
1544 2011-06-08 17:45:07 <phantomcircuit> yeah i know im using it to
1545 2011-06-08 17:45:20 <phantomcircuit> tippenein, yeah they get retransmitted every 30 minutes or there abouts
1546 2011-06-08 17:45:25 <kika_> gmaxwell: i need it to be asymetric crypt
1547 2011-06-08 17:45:26 <phantomcircuit> or at least that's what it used to be
1548 2011-06-08 17:45:27 <justmoon> guy extended my server for free twice <3
1549 2011-06-08 17:45:36 <kika_> gmaxwell: do you recommend ECC for this?
1550 2011-06-08 17:45:51 <mayr> can i start both networks (normal and test) with the same client simply by switching parameters or will it overwrite the blockchain?
1551 2011-06-08 17:46:23 <phantomcircuit> mayr, testnet gets put in a different directory
1552 2011-06-08 17:46:39 bk128 has joined
1553 2011-06-08 17:46:42 <mayr> thanks!
1554 2011-06-08 17:47:12 <kika_> gmaxwell: ECHD ?
1555 2011-06-08 17:48:30 george_ has joined
1556 2011-06-08 17:48:39 Kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1557 2011-06-08 17:49:08 blishchrot has joined
1558 2011-06-08 17:49:12 Mononofu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1559 2011-06-08 17:51:53 gsathya has joined
1560 2011-06-08 17:53:53 <george_> i have a transaction on 06/05/2011 1900 that isnt being confirmed
1561 2011-06-08 17:54:03 Sedra has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1562 2011-06-08 17:54:11 <gmaxwell> george_: txid?
1563 2011-06-08 17:54:17 <george_> i made it with 0.3.21
1564 2011-06-08 17:54:57 <gmaxwell> george_: how do you know it isn't being confirmed?
1565 2011-06-08 17:55:00 <george_> how do i find the txid? using linux client
1566 2011-06-08 17:55:15 <george_> a transaction i made today has been confirmed
1567 2011-06-08 17:55:21 <gjs278> bitcoind listtransactions
1568 2011-06-08 17:55:39 <george_> using 0.3.22 of course?
1569 2011-06-08 17:55:43 <gjs278> any version
1570 2011-06-08 17:56:20 <george_> asking about a rpcpassword?
1571 2011-06-08 17:56:26 zertam has quit (Quit: zertam)
1572 2011-06-08 17:56:49 <gjs278> you need to set that in bitcoin.conf
1573 2011-06-08 17:56:52 <gmaxwell> is there no way to see the tx id in the GUI?
1574 2011-06-08 17:56:57 skeledrew has joined
1575 2011-06-08 17:56:58 <gjs278> there probably is
1576 2011-06-08 17:57:01 <gjs278> but I don't use it
1577 2011-06-08 17:57:19 JA has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1578 2011-06-08 17:57:49 <george_> where is bitcoin.conf located?
1579 2011-06-08 17:57:56 <george_> ~/.bitcoin?
1580 2011-06-08 17:57:59 kreal- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1581 2011-06-08 17:58:13 <gjs278> yes
1582 2011-06-08 17:58:16 <gjs278> you have to create it
1583 2011-06-08 17:58:22 <gmaxwell> george_: add rpcuser=something
1584 2011-06-08 17:58:30 <gmaxwell> rpcpassword=something
1585 2011-06-08 17:58:37 Counsel has joined
1586 2011-06-08 17:58:38 <gmaxwell> and then the cli tools will work.
1587 2011-06-08 17:59:00 Sedra has joined
1588 2011-06-08 17:59:06 uppe has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1589 2011-06-08 17:59:29 TD_ has quit (Quit: TD_)
1590 2011-06-08 17:59:52 maikmerten has joined
1591 2011-06-08 17:59:53 <george_> error: Could not connect to the server
1592 2011-06-08 18:00:03 <gjs278> okay
1593 2011-06-08 18:00:05 <gjs278> now do
1594 2011-06-08 18:00:07 <gjs278> bitcoind
1595 2011-06-08 18:00:21 <gjs278> if that hangs, go to another window and do the listtransactions
1596 2011-06-08 18:00:28 <gjs278> and then bitcoind stop to close it
1597 2011-06-08 18:01:21 <gmaxwell> george_: you should have been able to just restart the gui after making the config
1598 2011-06-08 18:01:25 p0s has joined
1599 2011-06-08 18:01:30 stuhood has joined
1600 2011-06-08 18:01:57 AnatolV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1601 2011-06-08 18:02:03 <tippenein> anyone know what mining.bitcoin.cz means by my login suffix?
1602 2011-06-08 18:02:10 Mononofu has joined
1603 2011-06-08 18:02:51 <george_> ok
1604 2011-06-08 18:03:00 stuhood has left ()
1605 2011-06-08 18:03:38 zyb has joined
1606 2011-06-08 18:04:22 uppe has joined
1607 2011-06-08 18:04:38 xelister has joined
1608 2011-06-08 18:04:48 <george_> sorry i now have 1 confirmation
1609 2011-06-08 18:05:01 <george_> confirmation should be trickling in, thanks for the help
1610 2011-06-08 18:06:55 marlowe has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1611 2011-06-08 18:07:02 glassresistor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1612 2011-06-08 18:08:07 <arienh4> Going to try asking this again, does anyone know how confirmations work?
1613 2011-06-08 18:08:19 <gmaxwell> arienh4: Sure.
1614 2011-06-08 18:08:59 <gmaxwell> arienh4: but I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to someone who has burined so much energy complaining about a system without even understaning its basics.
1615 2011-06-08 18:09:00 marlowe has joined
1616 2011-06-08 18:09:11 <arienh4> gmaxwell: I realise most of the network.
1617 2011-06-08 18:09:13 <gmaxwell> arienh4: If you'd actually like to learn http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf is quite readable.
1618 2011-06-08 18:09:20 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1619 2011-06-08 18:09:56 mosimo has joined
1620 2011-06-08 18:10:03 <arienh4> could've done without the passive-aggressiveness, but thanks anyway.
1621 2011-06-08 18:10:42 <gmaxwell> arienh4: It was't passive. It was aggressive. I think you're misbehaving, although I'm glad to help you learn I'm not going to go out of my way.
1622 2011-06-08 18:10:51 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1623 2011-06-08 18:11:11 <gmaxwell> arienh4: while around I'll answer specific questions though. So feel free to ask after reading up some more.
1624 2011-06-08 18:11:19 johnnympereira5 has joined
1625 2011-06-08 18:11:39 cacheson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1626 2011-06-08 18:12:51 glassresistor has joined
1627 2011-06-08 18:13:20 <arienh4> gmaxwell: That there is passive-agressive
1628 2011-06-08 18:13:25 <arienh4> "after reading up some more."
1629 2011-06-08 18:13:37 <arienh4> You're implying I haven't researched the bitcoin protocol
1630 2011-06-08 18:13:46 <arienh4> I must say, I've relied on the official documentation more than the original paper
1631 2011-06-08 18:13:55 <arienh4> Because a lot has changed since then as well
1632 2011-06-08 18:14:09 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
1633 2011-06-08 18:14:14 * nathan7 eyes arienh4
1634 2011-06-08 18:14:23 <nathan7> Are you who I think you are?
1635 2011-06-08 18:14:26 <arienh4> Am I?
1636 2011-06-08 18:14:34 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1637 2011-06-08 18:14:39 <gmaxwell> Well, I apologise for my assumptions. Assuming you know how it works: confirmations are just the current block height with the height of the block confirming the tx subtracted.
1638 2011-06-08 18:14:44 <nathan7> arienh4: Arien Holthuizen?
1639 2011-06-08 18:14:47 <arienh4> Err, yes.
1640 2011-06-08 18:14:51 d1234 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1641 2011-06-08 18:15:04 <nathan7> q=
1642 2011-06-08 18:15:11 B0g4r7 has joined
1643 2011-06-08 18:15:16 <arienh4> How'd you know me anyway?
1644 2011-06-08 18:15:35 <tippenein> anyone know what mining.bitcoin.cz means by my login suffix?
1645 2011-06-08 18:15:42 <arienh4> tippenein: Your username
1646 2011-06-08 18:15:55 <nathan7> arienh4: Because I recognised your nick
1647 2011-06-08 18:15:56 <gmaxwell> arienh4: The paper is the most important reference. It doesn't describe a lot of the client behavior, but it covers all the core bitcoin blockchain concepts. Everything else technical assumes you understand it.
1648 2011-06-08 18:16:13 <xelister> bets when btc will reach 100$ ? :P
1649 2011-06-08 18:16:20 <tippenein> arienh4, says <your username>.<login suffix>
1650 2011-06-08 18:16:30 <arienh4> Oh, right, suffix
1651 2011-06-08 18:16:35 <arienh4> That's the name of the worker.
1652 2011-06-08 18:16:49 kika_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1653 2011-06-08 18:16:49 <arienh4> nathan7, yeah, but from what? :P
1654 2011-06-08 18:16:56 pnicholson has joined
1655 2011-06-08 18:16:57 <tippenein> is it an arbitrary suffix to id the worker?
1656 2011-06-08 18:17:19 <arienh4> you can decide it yourself
1657 2011-06-08 18:17:31 <arienh4> It doesn't really matter
1658 2011-06-08 18:17:33 arienh4 has left ()
1659 2011-06-08 18:17:47 <gps__> xelister: ask in #bitcoin-otc
1660 2011-06-08 18:17:51 arienh4 has joined
1661 2011-06-08 18:19:19 <johnnympereira5> xelister: you think it will hit 100?
1662 2011-06-08 18:19:34 <nathan7> arienh4: I'm Nathan aka nathan7 aka frozenfire, the dude you once asked some question on aardvark
1663 2011-06-08 18:20:06 <xelister> johnnympereira5: well I dont know no more what to think. @10 was unthinkable few weeks ago
1664 2011-06-08 18:20:43 <arienh4> Ah, I see. Small world, I guess.
1665 2011-06-08 18:20:57 <johnnympereira5> xelister: hahah ya true.... i just said that cause ive heard alot of people thinking that i could go that high very soon
1666 2011-06-08 18:21:03 <phantomcircuit> johnnympereira5, there is no end
1667 2011-06-08 18:21:05 <nathan7> arienh4: Mhm
1668 2011-06-08 18:21:26 <nathan7> If it hits 100, I'm rich.
1669 2011-06-08 18:21:39 kermit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1670 2011-06-08 18:21:43 <johnnympereira5> hahaha ya that woudl be awesome
1671 2011-06-08 18:21:43 <nathan7> I'd have $2000 :D
1672 2011-06-08 18:21:51 kermit has joined
1673 2011-06-08 18:21:58 <johnnympereira5> @nathan7: nice! how long have u been mining for?
1674 2011-06-08 18:22:50 ArZa has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1675 2011-06-08 18:23:27 <arienh4> gmaxwell: Anyway, sorry about the way I acted. I mean, I'd love for Bitcoin to succeed, I really do, but I'm just very sceptical.
1676 2011-06-08 18:24:04 <nathan7> johnnympereira5: Not terribly long. I got these from midnightmagic.
1677 2011-06-08 18:24:11 <nathan7> johnnympereira5: I once mined 200 coins, a long long time ago.
1678 2011-06-08 18:24:19 <nathan7> Back in the day..
1679 2011-06-08 18:24:27 benlake has joined
1680 2011-06-08 18:24:39 <nathan7> I mined on my atom N330 server. And actually got coins.
1681 2011-06-08 18:24:46 <benlake> quick Q: "program version 4.7 doesn't match environment version 4.8"
1682 2011-06-08 18:24:48 <johnnympereira5> @nathan7: hahhahah wow
1683 2011-06-08 18:24:54 <gps__> I gave more coins to the faucet when they were worth little than most of you will ever own
1684 2011-06-08 18:25:03 ArZa has joined
1685 2011-06-08 18:25:29 <benlake> running 3.22 on linux against a 3.21 OSX (i think) data dir gives me that
1686 2011-06-08 18:26:08 <gmaxwell> arienh4: Okay. When I first started learning about bitcoin I thought I saw technical flaws at every turn, but after resesarching I found that the only things remaining were 'minor' stuff that could be fixed. The core design is solid if you take the time to understand it.
1687 2011-06-08 18:26:17 DrewSJ has joined
1688 2011-06-08 18:26:24 <gmaxwell> arienh4: bitcoin's success mostly depends on politics and people, and less technology in any case.
1689 2011-06-08 18:26:25 mayr has left ()
1690 2011-06-08 18:26:39 <gmaxwell> arienh4: and no one can predict the politics and people. Skpeticism is justified.
1691 2011-06-08 18:26:42 <arienh4> gmaxwell: Exactly. I'm not debating technology, most of the tech is solid.
1692 2011-06-08 18:26:56 <fizario> has the faucet run dry?
1693 2011-06-08 18:27:09 ArZa has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1694 2011-06-08 18:27:11 <gps__> 3,000,000 USD passed through Mtgox in the last 24 hours?
1695 2011-06-08 18:27:21 <nathan7> I once had 700 coins, total. Sold 'em for $47.
1696 2011-06-08 18:27:28 <gmaxwell> fizario: yes... we need a faucet replacement. It's not sustainable.
1697 2011-06-08 18:27:31 <midnightmagic> ;;calc 3000000*0.0065
1698 2011-06-08 18:27:32 <gribble> 3,000,000 * 0.0065 = 19,500
1699 2011-06-08 18:27:33 <nathan7> They were worth like $3 when I first had that much
1700 2011-06-08 18:27:58 <tippenein> anyone encountered this with POCLBM? http://pastebin.com/dKMB4P3x
1701 2011-06-08 18:28:00 ArZa has joined
1702 2011-06-08 18:28:00 ArZa has quit (Changing host)
1703 2011-06-08 18:28:00 ArZa has joined
1704 2011-06-08 18:28:16 <tippenein> clGetPlatformIDs failed
1705 2011-06-08 18:28:18 has joined
1706 2011-06-08 18:28:31 gps_ has joined
1707 2011-06-08 18:28:32 <Gekz> midnightmagic: yeah, he's winning forever.
1708 2011-06-08 18:28:33 <benlake> tippenein: sounds like it can't find your video cards
1709 2011-06-08 18:28:41 <johnnympereira5> @nathan7: if you only knew to hold on to them hahah
1710 2011-06-08 18:28:43 <arienh4> I really like the idea of contracts, I wonder when mediators start using them
1711 2011-06-08 18:29:29 <midnightmagic> if everyone knew to hold onto them, the currency would have been stillborn
1712 2011-06-08 18:29:42 <tippenein> benlake, any ideas how to change that?
1713 2011-06-08 18:29:51 <benlake> tippenein: not a one
1714 2011-06-08 18:29:55 DrewSJ has quit (Client Quit)
1715 2011-06-08 18:30:04 <tippenein> : D mmk
1716 2011-06-08 18:30:04 <nathan7> johnnympereira5: Those blocks are somewhere out there.
1717 2011-06-08 18:30:20 <nathan7> johnnympereira5: 500 of them were acquired through the sale of cookies to niekie.
1718 2011-06-08 18:30:24 <nathan7> johnnympereira5: Those blocks are somewhere out there.
1719 2011-06-08 18:30:38 <nathan7> johnnympereira5: My grandma and I are permanently part of the history of bitcoin!
1720 2011-06-08 18:30:46 bonew has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1721 2011-06-08 18:31:01 TommyBoy3G has joined
1722 2011-06-08 18:31:05 <gps_> I wonder if gavin keeps enough info on the faucet to determine how many faucet coins have been unspent for > X days. Potentially lost from people with waning intrest.
1723 2011-06-08 18:31:18 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1724 2011-06-08 18:31:23 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-252-18-10.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
1725 2011-06-08 18:31:28 <midnightmagic> so how long has mtgox refused to allow ฿ withdrawal > ~ $1000/day's worth?
1726 2011-06-08 18:31:30 gps__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1727 2011-06-08 18:31:30 Llamab8t has joined
1728 2011-06-08 18:31:34 <gmaxwell> gps_: faucet txn are obvious enough... chaining sendmays giving out 0.02...
1729 2011-06-08 18:31:50 <arienh4> gps_: I thought enough data was public already
1730 2011-06-08 18:31:51 <tippenein> midnightmagic, i think they always have
1731 2011-06-08 18:31:55 cdecker has joined
1732 2011-06-08 18:32:03 <gps_> gmaxwell - what about when it still gave out 5 BTC? there is a lot of potentially lost coins out there
1733 2011-06-08 18:32:12 jmorton has joined
1734 2011-06-08 18:32:17 <midnightmagic> good lord, really? well. how about that.
1735 2011-06-08 18:32:28 <gmaxwell> gps_: probably more in people that just left it mining and forgot about it only to later erase it.
1736 2011-06-08 18:32:45 <benlake> ok so I have my data dir (wallet, block info) on a flash drive and I alias the bitcoin dir to it on OSX (0.3.21). Tried to use the data dir on linux with version 0.3.22 and it fails... tells me to run DB recovery... is a 0.3.22 OSX version comes out, is the same thing going to happen?
1737 2011-06-08 18:32:58 <spq> mtgox gets the fee 2 times, doesnt it?
1738 2011-06-08 18:33:07 <benlake> spq: so I hear
1739 2011-06-08 18:33:13 <gmaxwell> spq: yep.
1740 2011-06-08 18:33:19 <gps_> spq on the buyer and seller side
1741 2011-06-08 18:33:51 <fizario> are all the transactions standard now
1742 2011-06-08 18:33:56 <benlake> out of 421 people, no one wants to broach the dev topic I just mentioned? :P In -dev of all places
1743 2011-06-08 18:33:57 <fizario> i wonder how you can search for non-standard ones
1744 2011-06-08 18:34:01 <spq> yep - so its 3 * 39k
1745 2011-06-08 18:34:05 <spq> -3*
1746 2011-06-08 18:34:38 <spq> ~40k$
1747 2011-06-08 18:34:40 <gps_> benlake - i don't speak mac sorry.
1748 2011-06-08 18:34:58 <benlake> gps_: you don't have to speak mac, this isn't a mac issue
1749 2011-06-08 18:35:03 <gps_> spq: one day, crazy huh? money is definitely in setting up the big exchange
1750 2011-06-08 18:35:56 <gps_> benlake: at one time I remember there was an issue with OSX of the writing and where the data dir was. I don't have enough specific knowledge about what that was to help if that might be the issue and I've never seen the DB recovery. sorry.
1751 2011-06-08 18:36:08 BCBot has quit (Quit: cdecker)
1752 2011-06-08 18:36:10 Llamab8t is now known as BCBot
1753 2011-06-08 18:36:13 <gmaxwell> benlake: you're assuming it's not a mac issue, but that may be a bad assumption.
1754 2011-06-08 18:36:16 <midnightmagic> benlake: worst case, you restore your wallet, and go back to a prior version, and spend your coins into a fresh wallet.
1755 2011-06-08 18:36:19 <benlake> hmm, maybe my statement wasn't clear
1756 2011-06-08 18:36:30 <gmaxwell> .21 -> .22 wallet worked fine for me on linux, for example.
1757 2011-06-08 18:36:44 <benlake> it may be an issue with the OSX client, but it isn't OSX
1758 2011-06-08 18:36:59 <gmaxwell> I don't think .22 changed anything with the wallet. But I'm often wrong.
1759 2011-06-08 18:37:04 BCBot has quit (Quit: cdecker)
1760 2011-06-08 18:37:19 <benlake> I brought the drive back over to OSX and 0.3.21 (OSX) is working fine
1761 2011-06-08 18:37:21 <gps_> benlake: have you made sure it's not a permission issue after copying?
1762 2011-06-08 18:37:44 <benlake> I verified I could read/write to the drive
1763 2011-06-08 18:38:01 <benlake> the error I get is: "program version 4.7 doesn't match environment version 4.8"
1764 2011-06-08 18:38:35 <benlake> not sure if .22 is "program version 4.7" or "environment version 4.8"
1765 2011-06-08 18:38:55 <benlake> I'd assume .22 is looking for a 4.8 environment and isn't finding it
1766 2011-06-08 18:39:05 BCBot has joined
1767 2011-06-08 18:40:14 marlowe has left ()
1768 2011-06-08 18:41:08 Test007 has joined
1769 2011-06-08 18:42:21 <benlake> ah, found another err msg: "unsupported log version 16"
1770 2011-06-08 18:43:37 pussle has joined
1771 2011-06-08 18:44:51 <nathan7> arienh4: So what's bringing you up here?
1772 2011-06-08 18:45:08 * benlake coughs
1773 2011-06-08 18:45:18 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1774 2011-06-08 18:46:04 * pussle comes here often ^-^
1775 2011-06-08 18:46:32 bitcoiner has joined
1776 2011-06-08 18:46:54 zoody has joined
1777 2011-06-08 18:47:27 netsky has joined
1778 2011-06-08 18:47:35 DrewSJ has joined
1779 2011-06-08 18:47:48 netsky has quit (Client Quit)
1780 2011-06-08 18:49:09 <fizario> anyone here selling btc futures
1781 2011-06-08 18:49:17 stahi has joined
1782 2011-06-08 18:49:40 <xelister> fizario: yeap
1783 2011-06-08 18:49:59 <gps_> fizario: try #bitcoin-otc
1784 2011-06-08 18:50:28 <arienh4> nathan7: Hm, just interest. I cashed out too early, which is annoying.
1785 2011-06-08 18:51:31 <nathan7> Yeah, my 700 coins would have been â¬11 830 now
1786 2011-06-08 18:51:49 <nathan7> But â¬338 is rich enough for me :D
1787 2011-06-08 18:52:05 <arienh4> I got â¬600 for my 100 BTC
1788 2011-06-08 18:52:05 DukeOfURL has joined
1789 2011-06-08 18:52:33 eoss has joined
1790 2011-06-08 18:53:03 <fizario> xelister suggested something interesting. a futures contract based on the expected Thps of the network
1791 2011-06-08 18:53:46 <arienh4> Why would you base a contract on the hashrate?
1792 2011-06-08 18:54:03 <arienh4> The input of bitcoins is 50 BTC per 10 minutes, roughly.
1793 2011-06-08 18:54:17 <diki> when i find a block i will be rich too
1794 2011-06-08 18:54:24 <diki> let's hope 290 mhahs/s do it
1795 2011-06-08 18:54:33 <fizario> hps is a market signal that lots of ppl would want to bet on
1796 2011-06-08 18:54:33 <arienh4> I remember when you could mine a block a day using CPU.
1797 2011-06-08 18:55:10 <arienh4> Oh, yay. Now the BitCoin paper is going on about Poisson distributions and all kinds of maths I don't understand yet. :/
1798 2011-06-08 18:55:18 <errydayimgenerat> fucking transaction limits
1799 2011-06-08 18:55:19 <errydayimgenerat> how do i hate you
1800 2011-06-08 18:55:19 <fizario> a miner would want to hedge his investment in gear by buying a put option on the fuure hashrate
1801 2011-06-08 18:55:42 <arienh4> The current deflation isn't going to continue though.
1802 2011-06-08 18:55:49 <arienh4> Not infinitely
1803 2011-06-08 18:55:54 <fizario> if hashrate goes up, he earns money from the contract to offset his loss of mining power
1804 2011-06-08 18:57:37 netsky has joined
1805 2011-06-08 18:58:09 <arienh4> gmaxwell: I just finished reading the paper. It says nothing about how confirmations work, just the amount of blocks that have the transaction in its Merkle root?
1806 2011-06-08 18:58:26 <netsky> Someone here who's familiar with pushpool? I am getting a wierd error I believe is related to libevent.
1807 2011-06-08 18:59:06 kreal- has joined
1808 2011-06-08 18:59:17 <fizario> arienh4: a block is a confirmation of every previous transaction in that chain
1809 2011-06-08 18:59:37 <arienh4> Yeah, so the amount of confirmations is just the amount of blocks that have that transaction in the Merkle tree?
1810 2011-06-08 18:59:43 <fizario> exactly
1811 2011-06-08 18:59:49 <arienh4> so, the amount of blocks after that one in the chain
1812 2011-06-08 18:59:52 <arienh4> Ah, okay.
1813 2011-06-08 19:00:06 dc11 has joined
1814 2011-06-08 19:00:28 <arienh4> That's what I initially thought, but some mis-informed people confused me a few days ago
1815 2011-06-08 19:03:11 <tippenein> trying to use Diablo miner I get no opencl platforms found
1816 2011-06-08 19:03:26 <arienh4> Do you have the latest drivers?
1817 2011-06-08 19:03:39 <arienh4> (Also, I'd suggest asking in #bitcoin-mining instead)
1818 2011-06-08 19:03:53 AStove has quit ()
1819 2011-06-08 19:04:07 <tippenein> yes, i also tried to download ati-opencl dev but I get unhandled error or some such
1820 2011-06-08 19:04:20 <tippenein> ok, thanks
1821 2011-06-08 19:04:47 errydayimgenerat is now known as errydayimclosed
1822 2011-06-08 19:07:57 <arienh4> So once a transaction is included in a block, the fee paid has no influence on the speed at which it will get confirmations, as long as the block isn't invalidated, right?
1823 2011-06-08 19:08:53 <Diablo-D3> yes
1824 2011-06-08 19:09:02 sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1825 2011-06-08 19:09:06 <Diablo-D3> arienh4: a confirmation is just another block following the one yours is in
1826 2011-06-08 19:09:09 <Diablo-D3> its not magic
1827 2011-06-08 19:09:17 <netsky> Would be much appreciated if someone could help me figure the following errors out: http://pastebin.com/MKHEUQze Thanks!
1828 2011-06-08 19:09:47 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1829 2011-06-08 19:09:58 <gps_> netsky: paste your bitcoin.conf minus the user name and password and same with your server.json
1830 2011-06-08 19:10:19 <netsky> gps_: Will do! Sit tight.
1831 2011-06-08 19:11:27 dedeibel has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1832 2011-06-08 19:11:54 dc11 has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
1833 2011-06-08 19:12:04 ius has joined
1834 2011-06-08 19:12:53 Lachesis has joined
1835 2011-06-08 19:15:35 jp__ has joined
1836 2011-06-08 19:15:53 <diki> netsky, the pool cant connect to bitcoind
1837 2011-06-08 19:18:34 <netsky> gps_ diki: Here's the configs: http://pastebin.com/RigefuUQ and suddenly I get this error from bitcoind: http://pastebin.com/7RqEjSap
1838 2011-06-08 19:19:21 LightRider is now known as afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|LightRider
1839 2011-06-08 19:19:25 zoody has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1840 2011-06-08 19:19:34 <diki> this line me thinks
1841 2011-06-08 19:19:35 <diki> #rpcconnect=127.0.0.1
1842 2011-06-08 19:19:38 <diki> uncomment it
1843 2011-06-08 19:19:49 <diki> wait...
1844 2011-06-08 19:20:00 <diki> rpcallowip
1845 2011-06-08 19:20:05 <diki> that is what you need to try
1846 2011-06-08 19:20:22 <netsky> rpcallowip should be set to accept local ip
1847 2011-06-08 19:20:28 <diki> rpcallowip=127.0.0.1
1848 2011-06-08 19:20:41 <diki> this in the bitcoin.conf file
1849 2011-06-08 19:20:57 <netsky> You think the wildcard doesn't work?
1850 2011-06-08 19:21:02 <netsky> Will try that if bitcoind would start.
1851 2011-06-08 19:21:04 [DusT] has joined
1852 2011-06-08 19:21:06 <diki> i see no rpcallowip
1853 2011-06-08 19:21:26 <netsky> line 97
1854 2011-06-08 19:21:27 Counsel has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1855 2011-06-08 19:22:02 johnnympereira5 has joined
1856 2011-06-08 19:22:11 <diki> add another line with rpcallowip=127.0.0.1
1857 2011-06-08 19:22:27 <netsky> Done, but bitcoind won't start.
1858 2011-06-08 19:22:38 <diki> error?
1859 2011-06-08 19:22:38 <Raccoon> who was that dude who did an interview with the BBC and CNN?
1860 2011-06-08 19:22:41 <netsky> http://pastebin.com/7RqEjSap
1861 2011-06-08 19:22:54 <diki> it says address already in use
1862 2011-06-08 19:23:00 <Raccoon> affiliated with LOLSEC
1863 2011-06-08 19:23:03 <MasterChief> what is dnsseed?
1864 2011-06-08 19:23:03 <diki> are you sure bitcoin process is not running?
1865 2011-06-08 19:23:29 <netsky> ps aux sais it isn't.
1866 2011-06-08 19:23:52 gwelymernan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1867 2011-06-08 19:23:56 <Blitzboom> btw guys: http://chart.googleapis.com/chart?chs=350x200&chd=t:45.93,2.86,23.01,1.30,14.94,0.90,2.37,7.62,1.08&cht=p&chf=bg,s,00000000&chl=deepbit|BitcoinPool|slush|bitcoins.lc|btcguild|other|Eligius|btcmine|swepool
1868 2011-06-08 19:24:06 <Blitzboom> i hope all are aware of this
1869 2011-06-08 19:24:34 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1870 2011-06-08 19:24:47 <Taveren93HGK> what about it?
1871 2011-06-08 19:25:20 <Blitzboom> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Attacker_has_a_lot_of_computing_power
1872 2011-06-08 19:25:34 <Blitzboom> all the government agencies have to do is shut down deepbit or take it over
1873 2011-06-08 19:25:42 <jeremias> why has deepbit so much computing power
1874 2011-06-08 19:25:45 <Blitzboom> they wonât even need to build huge clusters
1875 2011-06-08 19:25:46 <jeremias> is it easier to use
1876 2011-06-08 19:25:48 <jeremias> or cheaper?
1877 2011-06-08 19:25:57 <Blitzboom> 3% fee, but i guess itâs easy to use
1878 2011-06-08 19:26:02 <netsky> diki: any other ideas?
1879 2011-06-08 19:26:06 <Taveren93HGK> deepbit just controls the miners
1880 2011-06-08 19:26:12 <Taveren93HGK> that won't take control of the bitcoins
1881 2011-06-08 19:26:23 <Taveren93HGK> nor the bitcoin network
1882 2011-06-08 19:26:31 <diki> hmm
1883 2011-06-08 19:26:31 <Taveren93HGK> which is run by bitcoin clients, not by miners
1884 2011-06-08 19:26:34 <jeremias> well, if they would take deepbit down, miners would quickly find another pools or mine on their own
1885 2011-06-08 19:26:47 <Blitzboom> jeremias: i wouldnât count on it
1886 2011-06-08 19:27:12 <Blitzboom> and this doesnât factor a takeover of deepbit in
1887 2011-06-08 19:27:33 <fizario> so 3 pools have around 90% of computing?
1888 2011-06-08 19:28:09 <xelister> fizario: yea
1889 2011-06-08 19:28:23 <fizario> and that is a decentralized system....
1890 2011-06-08 19:28:45 <xelister> Taveren93HGK: ~50% power allows to manipulate shit. e.g. cancel already made and confirmed transactions
1891 2011-06-08 19:29:24 <fizario> bank of america is more decentralized hehe
1892 2011-06-08 19:29:47 jp__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1893 2011-06-08 19:29:49 <fizario> and even tho bofa is horrible, and cancels transactions, etc.. ppl still use them
1894 2011-06-08 19:30:10 <jeremias> well, gotta start new pools
1895 2011-06-08 19:30:20 <jeremias> is there open source pool software :D
1896 2011-06-08 19:30:20 thomas___ has joined
1897 2011-06-08 19:30:29 <jeremias> or is it hard to code your own
1898 2011-06-08 19:30:52 <ali1234> that's not the problem
1899 2011-06-08 19:30:56 <ali1234> there are plenty of pools
1900 2011-06-08 19:31:19 <ali1234> the problem is that if you're not in one of the top 4 you will have to wait a week or so before you see a payout
1901 2011-06-08 19:31:33 <fizario> the current system is roughly equivalent to one where you have 3 trusted certificate authorities
1902 2011-06-08 19:32:12 <lizthegrey> ali1234: not true. bitcoins.lc is getting a block about every day or so
1903 2011-06-08 19:32:20 <Taveren93HGK> xelister - you need control of the bitcoin NODES, not the miners
1904 2011-06-08 19:32:23 <Taveren93HGK> they're NOT THE SAME THING
1905 2011-06-08 19:32:47 <xelister> Taveren93HGK: Im designing transport protocols for bitcoin...
1906 2011-06-08 19:33:01 <pussle> will this change when miners are supported by fees ?
1907 2011-06-08 19:33:06 <xelister> Taveren93HGK: controlling >50% allows you to cancel the transactions that where don
1908 2011-06-08 19:33:08 <xelister> done.
1909 2011-06-08 19:33:15 <pussle> the pools etc
1910 2011-06-08 19:33:28 <lizthegrey> the danger is that if btcguild or eligius or slush goes down, they will give deepbit a clear majority, and if deepbit goes down, there goes half the network's hashing power
1911 2011-06-08 19:33:30 d17v1Nmz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1912 2011-06-08 19:33:39 <xelister> Taveren93HGK: you then gen blocks without given transactions and overtake the "other" chain in cartell mode.
1913 2011-06-08 19:33:45 <fizario> or they just decide which transactions to allow
1914 2011-06-08 19:33:59 <xelister> bbl
1915 2011-06-08 19:34:21 pRjck3vC has joined
1916 2011-06-08 19:35:08 Carriun has joined
1917 2011-06-08 19:35:13 <ali1234> lizthegrey: show stats please
1918 2011-06-08 19:35:23 <Carriun> Anyone know when the mac client is going to 3.22?
1919 2011-06-08 19:35:28 <Carriun> ;;bc,stats
1920 2011-06-08 19:35:30 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129424 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1615 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 1 hour, 34 minutes, and 35 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 701210.68661570
1921 2011-06-08 19:35:41 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
1922 2011-06-08 19:35:52 <lizthegrey> ali1234: see chart at bottom of http://bitcoinwatch.com/
1923 2011-06-08 19:36:09 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1924 2011-06-08 19:36:13 <thomas___> Carriun: i'm also waiting for this :D
1925 2011-06-08 19:36:15 <ali1234> lizthegrey: that does not tell me how many blocks bitcoins.lc generated last week
1926 2011-06-08 19:36:23 <lizthegrey> ali1234: oh, sorry - here
1927 2011-06-08 19:36:33 <lizthegrey> http://www.bitcoins.lc/stats
1928 2011-06-08 19:36:37 <ali1234> ty
1929 2011-06-08 19:36:47 <lizthegrey> bitcoins.lc has solved 11 blocks thus far
1930 2011-06-08 19:36:52 <lizthegrey> and has been in existence...
1931 2011-06-08 19:37:23 <netsky> bitcoind is throwing me wierd errors on Ubuntu 10.10 http://pastebin.com/Japkwihq
1932 2011-06-08 19:37:38 cacheson has joined
1933 2011-06-08 19:37:51 <lizthegrey> since may 27
1934 2011-06-08 19:37:54 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
1935 2011-06-08 19:38:11 <diki> so?
1936 2011-06-08 19:38:19 <diki> It's a usable pool
1937 2011-06-08 19:38:22 <lizthegrey> so 11 blocks in 12 days averages to ~a block per day
1938 2011-06-08 19:38:23 <diki> or so the admin says
1939 2011-06-08 19:38:45 <lizthegrey> and the pool took several days to bootstrap to enough power to have a chance of block-finding
1940 2011-06-08 19:39:08 llrcombs has joined
1941 2011-06-08 19:39:09 <diki> instead of boostrap, just say gather
1942 2011-06-08 19:39:22 <diki> *bootstrap
1943 2011-06-08 19:39:47 <llrcombs> diki: ohai
1944 2011-06-08 19:40:13 <lizthegrey> *shrug* - I consider it to be a bootstrapping problem at least as far as pools are concerned - very few people will want to join a tiny pool so the initial going is difficult :)
1945 2011-06-08 19:40:29 <ali1234> yes, that's really same as what i was saying
1946 2011-06-08 19:42:23 BCBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1947 2011-06-08 19:42:40 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1948 2011-06-08 19:43:31 BCBot has joined
1949 2011-06-08 19:46:20 <ius> Pardon my ignorance, looking at pushpoold, get_work and the reference python miner - how does pushpoold guarantee every worker is working on a different share?
1950 2011-06-08 19:46:58 <ius> All I see is the timestamp. Given there are no new transactions/blocks, and two clients request work simultaneously..
1951 2011-06-08 19:47:31 <ius> Don't they end up hashing the same data?
1952 2011-06-08 19:47:55 AStove has joined
1953 2011-06-08 19:48:00 <diki> prolly so
1954 2011-06-08 19:49:29 <lizthegrey> they pick a different nonce though
1955 2011-06-08 19:50:28 <ius> for nonce in xrange(self.max_nonce) <- The reference client starts at zero
1956 2011-06-08 19:50:32 <ius> Do the others randomize?
1957 2011-06-08 19:50:58 EPiSKiNG- is now known as EPiSKiNG
1958 2011-06-08 19:51:03 <jine> We're having problems with duplicated work over at Bitcoins.lc. Anyone that got ANY knowledge in maybe why, and what the hell to do about it?
1959 2011-06-08 19:51:47 BCBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1960 2011-06-08 19:52:24 <vegard> what is the problem exactly?
1961 2011-06-08 19:52:54 <jine> We're getting alot of invalid shares, mainly duplicates, and some stales after new block is announced using LP
1962 2011-06-08 19:52:54 gauze_bandage has joined
1963 2011-06-08 19:52:57 <lizthegrey> hmm, point. not sure what poclbm does
1964 2011-06-08 19:53:01 metonymous has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1965 2011-06-08 19:53:18 <jine> We're up to about 5-7% invalid shares WITH long-polling...
1966 2011-06-08 19:53:20 <vegard> jine: are you a pool operator or miner?
1967 2011-06-08 19:53:50 <jine> vegard: operator, founder of bitcoins.lc
1968 2011-06-08 19:54:22 <jine> https://www.bitcoins.lc/stats really bad luck on current round to, but look at the valid/invalid shares for current rount
1969 2011-06-08 19:54:47 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
1970 2011-06-08 19:54:49 <jine> thats about... 5-6%
1971 2011-06-08 19:54:56 Marcel has joined
1972 2011-06-08 19:54:56 <jine> round* sorry.
1973 2011-06-08 19:55:16 BCBot has joined
1974 2011-06-08 19:55:18 jav_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1975 2011-06-08 19:55:26 <ius> lizthegrey: According to wiki, extraNonce is part of the transaction data, thus changes the merkle root
1976 2011-06-08 19:55:27 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1977 2011-06-08 19:55:35 picci has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1978 2011-06-08 19:56:42 <ius> That means the only way to increase work availability beyond 1 sha-target/s is by varying the transaction data so the merkle root is different
1979 2011-06-08 19:57:51 <ius> Which pushpool doesn't do, as it doesn't know about transactions, it just gets a block header from bitcoind
1980 2011-06-08 19:58:03 <vegard> um, extraNonce is part of the block header
1981 2011-06-08 19:58:26 <jgarzik> no, it's not
1982 2011-06-08 19:58:31 <jgarzik> it's part of coinbase
1983 2011-06-08 19:58:49 <ius> Does what I just said make any sense?
1984 2011-06-08 19:59:17 <vegard> ok, sorry.
1985 2011-06-08 19:59:34 tippenein has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1986 2011-06-08 20:00:23 LightRider is now known as LightRider|afk
1987 2011-06-08 20:01:12 <jine> jgarzik: Any ides how do get rid of the ~4.0-4.5% of duplicated shares I'm seeing? Or maybe got a clue of why this is?
1988 2011-06-08 20:02:52 <davex__> Anyone aware of thread discussions about creating, say, an open-source OTC exchange system w/ feedback mechanism to replace mtgox?
1989 2011-06-08 20:02:56 <jgarzik> jine: dunno
1990 2011-06-08 20:03:14 <davex__> bitcoin-otc is inadequate for this at the moment.
1991 2011-06-08 20:03:15 <jgarzik> davex__: #bitcoin-otc
1992 2011-06-08 20:03:22 <davex__> needs exchange features
1993 2011-06-08 20:03:30 <davex__> bids asks, etc
1994 2011-06-08 20:03:34 <jgarzik> davex__: gribble is open source
1995 2011-06-08 20:03:58 <davex__> so, i think that might be a good starting point, just wondering if anyone's actively developing in that direction
1996 2011-06-08 20:04:09 <gjs278> it would need a central location
1997 2011-06-08 20:04:13 <davex__> no, wouldn't.
1998 2011-06-08 20:04:20 <gjs278> how wouldn't it
1999 2011-06-08 20:04:22 <davex__> thats what you don't want.
2000 2011-06-08 20:04:31 BCBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2001 2011-06-08 20:04:34 <gjs278> you put up a sell for $20
2002 2011-06-08 20:04:36 <gjs278> I hit buy
2003 2011-06-08 20:04:37 <gjs278> I never pay
2004 2011-06-08 20:04:48 <davex__> that's why feedback ratings have to be published alongside bid/ask
2005 2011-06-08 20:05:03 <davex__> along with maybe gpg authentication of some kind
2006 2011-06-08 20:05:15 BCBot has joined
2007 2011-06-08 20:05:27 <gjs278> bid/ask works when there's no people to deal with and a central place can accomplish it for everyone
2008 2011-06-08 20:05:38 <gjs278> if the bot can't take money from me then it's pointless I'll just deal with people
2009 2011-06-08 20:05:48 <davex__> but it's still less cumbersome.
2010 2011-06-08 20:05:57 <davex__> bitcoin-otc right now, still has bids / asks, but they're not organized nicely.
2011 2011-06-08 20:06:08 <davex__> at least, not last time i checked.
2012 2011-06-08 20:06:11 <gjs278> there is a ;;buy and ;;sell command
2013 2011-06-08 20:06:13 <gjs278> not sure what they do
2014 2011-06-08 20:06:17 <gjs278> if they do anything at all
2015 2011-06-08 20:06:24 <davex__> right, that's what i remember
2016 2011-06-08 20:06:27 BCBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2017 2011-06-08 20:06:42 <davex__> could have a browser interface for showing that stuff.
2018 2011-06-08 20:06:58 BCBot has joined
2019 2011-06-08 20:07:02 <gjs278> I think it's supposed to
2020 2011-06-08 20:07:10 <davex__> i'm not quite sure how to do authentication nicely though
2021 2011-06-08 20:07:31 <davex__> i'll check it out again, it's been awhile
2022 2011-06-08 20:07:51 errydayimclosed is now known as errydayimgenerat
2023 2011-06-08 20:08:03 <gjs278> errydayimhustlin
2024 2011-06-08 20:08:56 <Diablo-D3> man
2025 2011-06-08 20:09:01 <Diablo-D3> I should be able to force a 0 fee tx
2026 2011-06-08 20:09:39 <gjs278> YES
2027 2011-06-08 20:10:18 <gjs278> some guy yesterday was getting all mad because he couldn't sell me 15 coins without paying .01
2028 2011-06-08 20:10:28 <Diablo-D3> well thats not what I mean
2029 2011-06-08 20:10:29 <gjs278> said it would make his balance end on .99
2030 2011-06-08 20:10:34 <Diablo-D3> the client doesnt tell you why
2031 2011-06-08 20:10:43 <Diablo-D3> its not complexity (single input)
2032 2011-06-08 20:11:16 <phantomcircuit> i have heard that there is an actual written statement from schumer, anybody seen it?
2033 2011-06-08 20:11:26 gwelymernan has joined
2034 2011-06-08 20:11:41 <phantomcircuit> npviewer.bin[5350]: segfault at 0 ip 00000000f6129d61 sp 00000000ffe1ffa0 error 4 in libflashplayer.so[f5d52000+bc1000]
2035 2011-06-08 20:11:42 <phantomcircuit> lol flash
2036 2011-06-08 20:11:50 <gjs278> phantomcircuit
2037 2011-06-08 20:11:55 <gjs278> youtube had a bug for amd64 flash
2038 2011-06-08 20:11:55 <Diablo-D3> and the amount is 1
2039 2011-06-08 20:11:58 <Diablo-D3> so its not that
2040 2011-06-08 20:12:03 <gjs278> where it would crash every single time you viewed a video twice
2041 2011-06-08 20:12:18 <gjs278> unless you had cookies off
2042 2011-06-08 20:12:19 k^^ has joined
2043 2011-06-08 20:12:23 <Diablo-D3> >npviewer.bin
2044 2011-06-08 20:12:26 <Diablo-D3> outdated firefox is outdated
2045 2011-06-08 20:12:37 <gjs278> oh yeah
2046 2011-06-08 20:12:39 <gjs278> wtf is that
2047 2011-06-08 20:12:42 gauze_bandage has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2048 2011-06-08 20:12:44 <gjs278> use the native
2049 2011-06-08 20:13:06 <phantomcircuit> lol native is flagged unstable
2050 2011-06-08 20:13:08 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
2051 2011-06-08 20:13:15 <gjs278> yes it is
2052 2011-06-08 20:13:24 <Diablo-D3> so?
2053 2011-06-08 20:13:34 <gjs278> the worst flashplayer upgrades are when I just do world emerge and then they fucking install a non native 32 on me
2054 2011-06-08 20:13:44 <gjs278> >npviewer.bin
2055 2011-06-08 20:13:46 <gjs278> >fuck this shit
2056 2011-06-08 20:14:00 <gjs278> >the native ebuild was deleted
2057 2011-06-08 20:14:19 <phantomcircuit> oh it's a downgrade
2058 2011-06-08 20:14:23 <phantomcircuit> 10.3 > 10.2
2059 2011-06-08 20:14:57 <gjs278> I just mask flashplayer now
2060 2011-06-08 20:15:03 gasteve has joined
2061 2011-06-08 20:15:09 <gjs278> because I know whatever version it auto upgrades me to is going to be bullshit
2062 2011-06-08 20:15:35 <phantomcircuit> lol
2063 2011-06-08 20:15:57 <phantomcircuit> 10.2.159.1_p201011173 is the only version with a native 64
2064 2011-06-08 20:16:15 nefario has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2065 2011-06-08 20:16:16 <phantomcircuit> lol automated rebinding
2066 2011-06-08 20:16:17 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
2067 2011-06-08 20:17:06 soossii has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2068 2011-06-08 20:17:06 MB123789 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2069 2011-06-08 20:17:39 * gmaxwell stats working on a flash exploit to steal wallets, sounds very protiftable.
2070 2011-06-08 20:18:43 * phantomcircuit runs bitcoin as bitcoind
2071 2011-06-08 20:19:00 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2072 2011-06-08 20:19:19 dr_win has joined
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2074 2011-06-08 20:20:24 gps_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2078 2011-06-08 20:22:02 <ius> jgarzik: My remarks regarding pushpool - do they make sense?
2079 2011-06-08 20:22:28 <ius> ie. is unique work limited to 1 piece/s due to timestamp granularity (all other header fields remaining constant)
2080 2011-06-08 20:23:33 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2081 2011-06-08 20:23:57 <pensan> Any news about the Mac client 0.3.22?
2082 2011-06-08 20:23:59 dvide_ has quit ()
2083 2011-06-08 20:27:01 yellowhat has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2084 2011-06-08 20:28:21 k^^ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2087 2011-06-08 20:28:30 GarrettB has joined
2088 2011-06-08 20:28:42 k^^ has joined
2089 2011-06-08 20:28:46 <ius> Huhm, no, the merkle root changes between getwork calls
2090 2011-06-08 20:29:10 fimp has joined
2091 2011-06-08 20:29:55 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
2092 2011-06-08 20:29:59 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129431 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1608 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 0 hours, 38 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 703031.04065066
2093 2011-06-08 20:30:22 <midnightmagic> ;;calc ([bc,estimate]-[bc,diff])/[bc,diff]*100
2094 2011-06-08 20:30:23 <gribble> ((703,031.04065066 - 567,358.22457067) / 567,358.22457067) * 100 = 23.9130782
2095 2011-06-08 20:30:29 <midnightmagic> i've seen worse..
2096 2011-06-08 20:30:41 <netsky> Right, I keep getting from both compiling myself and the version from bitcoin.org http://pastebin.com/PbWxpEau
2097 2011-06-08 20:30:47 <gjs278> ;;bc,mtgox
2098 2011-06-08 20:30:48 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":31.9099,"low":18.801,"vol":102978,"buy":29.9738,"sell":30,"last":30}}
2099 2011-06-08 20:30:50 <netsky> I believe it has something to do with libboost
2100 2011-06-08 20:33:10 Sylph has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2101 2011-06-08 20:33:14 <topi`> xelister: interesting discussion about deepbit and other strong pools with >50% power
2102 2011-06-08 20:33:40 tippenein has joined
2103 2011-06-08 20:33:48 <topi`> some time ago, I wrote a draft of a white paper that describes a model or method to avoid situations where one single pool has >50% computing power
2104 2011-06-08 20:34:05 <topi`> which could theoretically allow it to double spend
2105 2011-06-08 20:36:01 osmosis has joined
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2118 2011-06-08 20:46:27 <jgarzik> ius: pushpool gets each work from bitcoind. bitcoind should be giving out unique work.
2119 2011-06-08 20:46:29 <jgarzik> every time
2120 2011-06-08 20:47:39 <ius> Yeah
2121 2011-06-08 20:47:52 <netsky> jgarzik, I keep getting different exceptions when either compiling myself or running the already compiled on Ubuntu 10, could you have a look? http://pastebin.com/PbWxpEau
2122 2011-06-08 20:47:55 <ius> I just noticed. The wiki isn't wrong, it just doesn't tell you that.
2123 2011-06-08 20:48:17 Insti has joined
2124 2011-06-08 20:48:55 <ius> Regardless, shouldn't it be something to be handled by pushpool (varying extranonce) instead of bitcoind?
2125 2011-06-08 20:49:33 <jgarzik> ius: no
2126 2011-06-08 20:49:42 sender555 has quit ()
2127 2011-06-08 20:49:43 <jgarzik> ius: pushpool has no idea about block composition
2128 2011-06-08 20:50:05 <jgarzik> netsky: dunno
2129 2011-06-08 20:50:15 <jgarzik> netsky: did you try with a totally fresh ~/.bitcoin ?
2130 2011-06-08 20:50:25 <jgarzik> back up wallet, of course, then wipe everything
2131 2011-06-08 20:50:26 <ius> Hmf that's true
2132 2011-06-08 20:50:28 zyb has joined
2133 2011-06-08 20:50:38 MasterMinds has joined
2134 2011-06-08 20:50:39 <netsky> jgarzik: Yeah, totally clean.
2135 2011-06-08 20:50:55 <netsky> Happened all of a sudden.
2136 2011-06-08 20:51:28 <MasterMinds> looking for a dev to create a payment option for bitcoin pm me
2137 2011-06-08 20:52:05 <gps__> what packages do I need to install dependencies to build bitcoin in ubuntu? are they apt available?
2138 2011-06-08 20:52:06 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2139 2011-06-08 20:52:10 <netsky> jgarzik: but I reckon it is something with libboost?
2140 2011-06-08 20:52:23 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
2141 2011-06-08 20:52:27 <benlake> gps__: I assume you have build-essential?
2142 2011-06-08 20:52:34 <topace> ugh, is Dwolla.com only available to US citizens? i got $USD sitting at mtgox that I have no way of getting out.... :(
2143 2011-06-08 20:52:43 <JFK911> send it to me
2144 2011-06-08 20:52:44 <gjs278> if you're in europe you can do bank transfers
2145 2011-06-08 20:52:50 <topace> <- Canada
2146 2011-06-08 20:52:52 sipa has joined
2147 2011-06-08 20:52:57 <JFK911> i thought mtgox had ach output for usa
2148 2011-06-08 20:53:04 <JFK911> maybe i was lied to or it vanished
2149 2011-06-08 20:53:09 <gjs278> vanished
2150 2011-06-08 20:53:11 <benlake> gps__: might try a "apt-get install automake autogen" i think..
2151 2011-06-08 20:53:26 <ersi> Oh, look. An Arstechnica article about bitcoin
2152 2011-06-08 20:53:35 <JFK911> gjs278: lame! why'd it vanish?
2153 2011-06-08 20:53:37 <jgarzik> topace: sell mtgox-USD on #bitcoin-otc
2154 2011-06-08 20:53:42 <gjs278> no idea
2155 2011-06-08 20:53:45 jaequery has joined
2156 2011-06-08 20:53:46 <gjs278> dwolla replaced it
2157 2011-06-08 20:54:49 Worms_ has joined
2158 2011-06-08 20:54:53 <JFK911> haha you have to give dwolla your SSN?
2159 2011-06-08 20:54:56 <Worms_> Hi
2160 2011-06-08 20:54:59 <JFK911> oh lord
2161 2011-06-08 20:55:06 <Worms_> somebody speak french here ?
2162 2011-06-08 20:55:29 <Worms_> no ?
2163 2011-06-08 20:55:39 <topi`> gps__: you need the libboost* dev packages
2164 2011-06-08 20:55:45 <sipa> Worms_: what for?
2165 2011-06-08 20:55:46 <Worms_> ok, i'll try to ask my question in english
2166 2011-06-08 20:56:04 <sipa> try in english, and if we don't get it, try in french :)
2167 2011-06-08 20:56:13 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2168 2011-06-08 20:56:15 <Worms_> i've downloaded bitcoin
2169 2011-06-08 20:56:17 <gps__> okay, just installed libbost-dev i have automake and autogen isntalled
2170 2011-06-08 20:56:31 <gps__> what wx and openssl package do I need?
2171 2011-06-08 20:56:33 <topi`> gps__: you need all those libboost*-dev packages, like libboost-system-dev etc
2172 2011-06-08 20:56:46 <topi`> I compiled with wx 2.7 and the most recent openssl
2173 2011-06-08 20:56:55 sender555 has joined
2174 2011-06-08 20:57:16 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2175 2011-06-08 20:57:23 <Worms_> and i've see in the wiki for generate coin I have to enable the option « Options -> Generate Coins »
2176 2011-06-08 20:57:35 <arienh4> That option was taken out
2177 2011-06-08 20:57:37 <Worms_> but I havn't this option
2178 2011-06-08 20:57:38 skeledrew1 has joined
2179 2011-06-08 20:57:41 <arienh4> In new version
2180 2011-06-08 20:57:42 <edcba> lol
2181 2011-06-08 20:57:51 <sipa> Worms_: it was removed, because it is basically worthless
2182 2011-06-08 20:58:07 <sipa> Worms_: the only real way to generate coin is with high-end graphic cards and other specialzed hardware
2183 2011-06-08 20:58:07 <Worms_> ok, my bitcoin will generate automaticely bitcoin ?
2184 2011-06-08 20:58:12 sabalaba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2185 2011-06-08 20:58:16 <edcba> it's not worthless it's just inefficient
2186 2011-06-08 20:58:21 <sipa> Worms_: on a normal CPU, it takes ages
2187 2011-06-08 20:58:25 <sipa> ;;bc,calc 4000
2188 2011-06-08 20:58:26 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 19 years, 16 weeks, 3 days, 21 hours, 10 minutes, and 54 seconds
2189 2011-06-08 20:58:34 <arienh4> il faudrait des années pour produire des coins avec le client
2190 2011-06-08 20:58:37 denisx has joined
2191 2011-06-08 20:58:40 <phantomcircuit> can someone in the us download the video on this http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/123187958.html so i can watch it
2192 2011-06-08 20:58:50 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2193 2011-06-08 20:58:50 <Worms_> with the official software, can I use my graphic card ?
2194 2011-06-08 20:58:57 <arienh4> not with the client
2195 2011-06-08 20:59:00 <sipa> Worms_: no, it needs something called a miner
2196 2011-06-08 20:59:01 <phantomcircuit> Worms_, no
2197 2011-06-08 20:59:10 <sipa> but it can connect to the bitcoin software
2198 2011-06-08 20:59:22 eianpsego has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2199 2011-06-08 20:59:26 <sipa> though you probably want to mine in a pool, unless you've got a lot of computational power
2200 2011-06-08 20:59:28 <Worms_> ok, and have some link for "miner" softwar ?
2201 2011-06-08 20:59:35 <sipa> search the forum or the wiki
2202 2011-06-08 20:59:44 <Worms_> ok
2203 2011-06-08 20:59:49 <Worms_> thank's
2204 2011-06-08 20:59:51 <sipa> under 'mining' :)
2205 2011-06-08 20:59:54 <arienh4> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Pooled_mining
2206 2011-06-08 21:00:00 MasterMinds has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2207 2011-06-08 21:00:23 MasterMindsEnt has joined
2208 2011-06-08 21:00:40 <gjs278> phantomcircuit
2209 2011-06-08 21:00:45 <gjs278> I would love to download that video for you
2210 2011-06-08 21:00:52 <gjs278> but I opened livehttpheaders to see where the stream was from
2211 2011-06-08 21:01:00 <gjs278> and it spawned about 100 connections in maybe 2 seconds
2212 2011-06-08 21:01:11 <gps__> topi` how do I find all the package names?
2213 2011-06-08 21:01:12 <netsky> So my only shot is to reinstall ubuntu completely or?
2214 2011-06-08 21:01:14 <gjs278> still backtracing it
2215 2011-06-08 21:01:51 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, yeah it's nbc for you
2216 2011-06-08 21:02:36 <Worms_> humm but bitcoin is realy secure ? if they are no central server, isn't possible to make fake coin ??
2217 2011-06-08 21:03:04 <phantomcircuit> Worms_, yes it is, no it isn't
2218 2011-06-08 21:03:25 robin has quit (Quit: robin)
2219 2011-06-08 21:03:26 <Worms_> but, my amount is only stored on my computer, no ?
2220 2011-06-08 21:03:36 <luke-jr> Worms_: your amount isn't stored anywhere
2221 2011-06-08 21:03:52 <luke-jr> Worms_: your coins are stored on every single PC running a Bitcoin client
2222 2011-06-08 21:03:57 amiller has joined
2223 2011-06-08 21:03:59 <gps__> topi`: I found a list, libbost iostreams, thread, program options, date time, all of that?
2224 2011-06-08 21:04:46 aps has joined
2225 2011-06-08 21:04:59 aps has left ()
2226 2011-06-08 21:05:01 <Worms_> if every computer store every coin of everybody the DB will be so hudge
2227 2011-06-08 21:05:12 <sipa> it's a few hundred MB now
2228 2011-06-08 21:05:23 lumos has joined
2229 2011-06-08 21:05:29 <sipa> but there are various ways to purge data from it
2230 2011-06-08 21:05:37 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2231 2011-06-08 21:05:42 lumos has left ()
2232 2011-06-08 21:06:18 <diki> ;;bc,stats
2233 2011-06-08 21:06:21 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129433 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1606 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 2 hours, 8 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 698356.23547704
2234 2011-06-08 21:06:46 <gps__> someone help me out for getting bitcoin dependencies on ubuntu, sudo apt-get install -list of all the packages to copy and paste ;) -
2235 2011-06-08 21:06:51 Carriun has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2236 2011-06-08 21:07:00 <gjs278> gps__ there's a guide on the forum for it
2237 2011-06-08 21:07:05 <Worms_> whell, I've to download the whole db before generating coin ?
2238 2011-06-08 21:07:08 <gjs278> http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=3359.100
2239 2011-06-08 21:07:16 <gjs278> yes you do Worms
2240 2011-06-08 21:07:23 <Worms_> okkk
2241 2011-06-08 21:07:36 <gps__> gjs278: ty
2242 2011-06-08 21:07:49 <Worms_> and where is stored the db ?
2243 2011-06-08 21:08:29 pirrr has joined
2244 2011-06-08 21:08:51 eianpsego has joined
2245 2011-06-08 21:08:57 <ersi> Worms_: If you start the Bitcoin program, it automatically fetches the db
2246 2011-06-08 21:09:00 sbasuita has left ()
2247 2011-06-08 21:09:02 Sedra has joined
2248 2011-06-08 21:09:20 <benlake> Worms_: depends on OS, but in your home dir
2249 2011-06-08 21:10:55 <Worms_> ok, and about how many coin will I get with a standard PC (without any "miner" softwar) ?
2250 2011-06-08 21:11:21 <phantomcircuit> Worms_, approximately zero
2251 2011-06-08 21:11:37 <diki> phantom, i tried your formula for pool speed.
2252 2011-06-08 21:11:37 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2253 2011-06-08 21:11:40 <diki> it doesnt work..
2254 2011-06-08 21:11:42 Backburn2 has joined
2255 2011-06-08 21:11:52 <Backburn2> ;;bc,gen 50000000
2256 2011-06-08 21:11:54 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 50000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 88.6413853739 BTC per day and 3.69339105724 BTC per hour.
2257 2011-06-08 21:12:08 <Backburn2> ;;bc,gen 30000000
2258 2011-06-08 21:12:09 <edcba> ;;bc,gen 300000
2259 2011-06-08 21:12:09 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 30000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 53.1848312243 BTC per day and 2.21603463435 BTC per hour.
2260 2011-06-08 21:12:11 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 0.531848312243 BTC per day and 0.0221603463435 BTC per hour.
2261 2011-06-08 21:12:22 <pirrr> Why isn't gribble posting current trades anymore?
2262 2011-06-08 21:12:23 <Backburn2> actually
2263 2011-06-08 21:12:28 <pirrr> in #bitcoin-market ?
2264 2011-06-08 21:12:42 <Breign> i noticed it also
2265 2011-06-08 21:12:59 Phoebus has joined
2266 2011-06-08 21:13:05 takezo420 has joined
2267 2011-06-08 21:13:27 <Breign> too many orders
2268 2011-06-08 21:14:07 <davux> Worms_: there's also a forum in French if you prefer: http://forum.bitcoin.org/?board=13
2269 2011-06-08 21:15:24 BCBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2270 2011-06-08 21:15:48 <davux> Worms_: and you can join #bitcoin-fr
2271 2011-06-08 21:16:03 BlueMattBot has joined
2272 2011-06-08 21:16:42 <phantomcircuit> diki, what?
2273 2011-06-08 21:17:59 <pirrr> where can I follow mtgox trades live?
2274 2011-06-08 21:18:00 <pirrr> online?
2275 2011-06-08 21:18:17 <benlake> bitcoincharts.com
2276 2011-06-08 21:18:46 <cdecker> bitcoinmonitor.com
2277 2011-06-08 21:18:52 <phantomcircuit> pirrr, #bitcoin-market
2278 2011-06-08 21:20:14 <diki> remember when i asked you how to calculate pool speed?
2279 2011-06-08 21:20:14 gsathya is now known as gsathya|away
2280 2011-06-08 21:20:18 <diki> well it doesnt work
2281 2011-06-08 21:20:20 <diki> it outputs wrong data
2282 2011-06-08 21:20:53 stahi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2283 2011-06-08 21:21:32 <gps__> mtgoxlive.com
2284 2011-06-08 21:22:07 <diki> do you have some alternative way to calculate pool speed?
2285 2011-06-08 21:22:53 <diki> oh wait...it was lfm....
2286 2011-06-08 21:23:06 <diki> lfm you there?
2287 2011-06-08 21:23:28 Counsel has joined
2288 2011-06-08 21:24:14 <iz> diki: (shares submitted in the last hour * 2^32) / 3600
2289 2011-06-08 21:24:28 <iz> for est hashes per sec
2290 2011-06-08 21:24:40 <diki> lfm said 85.10.226.132
2291 2011-06-08 21:24:42 <diki> oops...
2292 2011-06-08 21:24:52 <diki> lfm said [04:28] <lfm> hash/s = number of shares found/s * difficulty * 2^32
2293 2011-06-08 21:25:11 <gps__> got to love when you paste something else from the clipboard. at least it wasn't a password
2294 2011-06-08 21:25:16 BCBot has joined
2295 2011-06-08 21:25:16 <iz> difficulty has nothing to do with hashing speed.. think about it
2296 2011-06-08 21:25:42 <iz> difficulty is when you want to calculate estimated time to find a block or estimated BTC payout
2297 2011-06-08 21:26:08 netsky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2298 2011-06-08 21:26:08 <gmaxwell> iz thats how to measure the most likely hashrate from shares.
2299 2011-06-08 21:26:19 <iz> well.. so what lfm said is right also
2300 2011-06-08 21:26:23 glassresistor has joined
2301 2011-06-08 21:26:30 <iz> but for pushpool, the miners are submitting difficulty 1 shares
2302 2011-06-08 21:26:39 <gmaxwell> .999crap in most cases.
2303 2011-06-08 21:26:46 <diki> sure is
2304 2011-06-08 21:26:49 <gmaxwell> H=0 shares not difficulty 1.
2305 2011-06-08 21:26:54 <diki> i found a block at diff 1.999xxx though
2306 2011-06-08 21:26:56 <sipa> ;;calc 65535/65536
2307 2011-06-08 21:26:57 <gribble> 65Â 535 / 65Â 536 = 0.999984741
2308 2011-06-08 21:27:00 <sipa> ^
2309 2011-06-08 21:27:23 k^^ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2310 2011-06-08 21:27:26 <diki> well the output of that formula is 0.1022222222222222
2311 2011-06-08 21:27:36 <gps__> so if you are finding shares at 1 like most pools are, you do shares found/s * 1 * 2^32 ?
2312 2011-06-08 21:27:41 <diki> it's a single workers(i.e me) for now
2313 2011-06-08 21:27:50 <gmaxwell> gps__: most pools aren't 1.
2314 2011-06-08 21:27:59 <diki> you do realise number * 1 = same number
2315 2011-06-08 21:28:21 <errydayimgenerat> what is it 2nd grade arithmatic in here?
2316 2011-06-08 21:28:24 <iz> he does, but he's asking about the formula for difficulty 1
2317 2011-06-08 21:28:27 <gps__> thought pushpoold was set up to accept difficulty at 1?
2318 2011-06-08 21:29:02 <ersi> diki: And if you change that number to the current difficulty..?
2319 2011-06-08 21:29:02 <mtrlt> it uses H==0 which is slightly less than diff 1
2320 2011-06-08 21:29:07 <lizthegrey> gps__: that's why you prefix all your passwords you're afraid of cut-pasting into irc or a shell prompt with /!
2321 2011-06-08 21:29:08 <mtrlt> like 0.99999something
2322 2011-06-08 21:29:25 <diki> oh...trying..
2323 2011-06-08 21:30:00 <gmaxwell> blah blah /! blah
2324 2011-06-08 21:30:13 <diki> now i am getting 0.09
2325 2011-06-08 21:30:22 <gps__> lizthegrey: I know and my password keeper erases them after a certain time automatically. diki pasted an ip address when he meant to paste a formula
2326 2011-06-08 21:30:33 <gps__> diki, do you have a cpu or a gpu pointed at your pool?
2327 2011-06-08 21:30:39 mikegogulski has joined
2328 2011-06-08 21:30:47 <diki> gpu ofc
2329 2011-06-08 21:31:04 <iz> diki, i told you the formula, just use that, it's close enough
2330 2011-06-08 21:31:10 <diki> it doesnt work iz
2331 2011-06-08 21:31:13 <gps__> and is the formula supposed to give you mega hashs or gigahashes?
2332 2011-06-08 21:31:18 redox678 has joined
2333 2011-06-08 21:31:29 <gps__> what was iz formula in comparison?
2334 2011-06-08 21:31:31 <diki> depends on the numbers i get
2335 2011-06-08 21:31:47 <diki> they're nowhere close to ~290 mhash/s
2336 2011-06-08 21:31:51 Xyz_ has joined
2337 2011-06-08 21:31:52 <diki> or 290000 khashs
2338 2011-06-08 21:31:55 <iz> diki: count the shares found in the last hour.. call that N.. then (N * 0.999984741 * 2^32) / 3600
2339 2011-06-08 21:32:10 <diki> iz:it outputs 0.08
2340 2011-06-08 21:32:12 <ersi> and you're basing the calculation on how many shares in how many minutes?
2341 2011-06-08 21:32:15 <iz> or just (N * 2^32) / 3600
2342 2011-06-08 21:32:27 <iz> 2^32 means 2 to the power of 32
2343 2011-06-08 21:32:37 <iz> not 2 modulo 32
2344 2011-06-08 21:32:40 <diki> i just wrote 2^32 in php as well
2345 2011-06-08 21:32:46 <iz> sigh
2346 2011-06-08 21:32:53 [DusT]2 has joined
2347 2011-06-08 21:33:05 <iz> how do you do exponent in php?
2348 2011-06-08 21:33:14 <diki> i dont?
2349 2011-06-08 21:33:22 Jesque has joined
2350 2011-06-08 21:33:33 <gps__> pow(x,y)
2351 2011-06-08 21:33:36 <Jesque> hey its 21:29 now as I paste this:
2352 2011-06-08 21:33:37 <Jesque> Status: 0/unconfirmed
2353 2011-06-08 21:33:37 <Jesque> Date: 08/06/2011 20:17
2354 2011-06-08 21:33:37 <Jesque> To: 1XkQE1vqUVkZaWWBQi4dwqJhSy5mKoqbJ
2355 2011-06-08 21:33:43 <Jesque> still 0/unconfirmed
2356 2011-06-08 21:33:47 <Jesque> ?
2357 2011-06-08 21:33:53 lulzplzkthx has quit (Q!~lulzyk@76.226.174.70|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2358 2011-06-08 21:34:04 <Jesque> infact it once asked if I was offline, but the power cut out
2359 2011-06-08 21:34:15 <diki> the numbers i get now are 242164214.79219
2360 2011-06-08 21:34:18 k^^ has joined
2361 2011-06-08 21:34:28 d4de has joined
2362 2011-06-08 21:34:29 d4de has quit (Changing host)
2363 2011-06-08 21:34:29 d4de has joined
2364 2011-06-08 21:34:30 <diki> 242 prolly is close enough
2365 2011-06-08 21:34:35 <gps__> diki, that sounds about right doesn't it?
2366 2011-06-08 21:34:50 <iz> diki use this then: count shares in the last hour.. call it N.. then do N * 1193028.266415
2367 2011-06-08 21:35:01 <Jesque> ?
2368 2011-06-08 21:35:01 <diki> and 1193028.266415 is?
2369 2011-06-08 21:35:07 <phantomcircuit> so does anybody know *who* mtgox is called mtgox?
2370 2011-06-08 21:35:11 <phantomcircuit> not just what it means
2371 2011-06-08 21:35:13 <iz> (2^32) * 0.999984741 / 3600
2372 2011-06-08 21:35:13 [DusT] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2373 2011-06-08 21:35:26 <iz> 2^32 = 4294967296, diki
2374 2011-06-08 21:35:38 <redox678> Hi, Is a plan to add message to a transaction ? if yes when ?
2375 2011-06-08 21:35:59 weinerk has joined
2376 2011-06-08 21:36:09 <phantomcircuit> redox678, i dont believe there is any plan yo do that
2377 2011-06-08 21:36:11 <phantomcircuit> to*
2378 2011-06-08 21:36:30 <gps__> he got pow() to work. that should be the same as hard coding in 1193028.266415
2379 2011-06-08 21:36:58 <iz> he said he just typed in 2^32 into php
2380 2011-06-08 21:37:04 <iz> and got like 0.2
2381 2011-06-08 21:37:14 <diki> if 2^32 = 4294967296, then what is 1193028.266415 ??
2382 2011-06-08 21:37:30 <iz> 1193028.26641500842666666666 = (2^32) * 0.999984741 / 3600
2383 2011-06-08 21:37:31 <gps__> by / 3600
2384 2011-06-08 21:37:44 <iz> diki: count the shares found in the last hour.. call that N.. then (N * 0.999984741 * 2^32) / 3600
2385 2011-06-08 21:37:49 brooss_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2386 2011-06-08 21:37:49 <Jesque> I have a transaction where the funds seem to have gone AWOL?
2387 2011-06-08 21:37:57 <diki> i did that, but my speed just increases with every share
2388 2011-06-08 21:38:05 brooss_ has joined
2389 2011-06-08 21:38:08 <phantomcircuit> Jesque, what's the tx id
2390 2011-06-08 21:38:11 <iz> that's how it should be
2391 2011-06-08 21:38:11 redox678 has left ()
2392 2011-06-08 21:38:11 <mikegogulski> anyone know if "Program version 4.7 doesn't match environment version 4.8" leads to wallet corruption?
2393 2011-06-08 21:38:11 <gps__> you need a rolling window of the hour.
2394 2011-06-08 21:38:23 <iz> N is the shares in the last hour only
2395 2011-06-08 21:38:26 <iz> not total shares ever
2396 2011-06-08 21:38:28 <Jesque> phantomcircuit whats a tx id?
2397 2011-06-08 21:38:33 <diki> of course
2398 2011-06-08 21:38:36 <gps__> your speed won't be accurate until you've contributed for an hour
2399 2011-06-08 21:38:42 <sipa> mikegogulski: you can upgrade the database format, but not downgrade
2400 2011-06-08 21:38:46 <iz> you are dividing by 3600 because that's how many seconds there are in an hour
2401 2011-06-08 21:38:57 <diki> it's probably because i truncated the shares table a while ago
2402 2011-06-08 21:39:02 <diki> so there hasnt been an hour yet
2403 2011-06-08 21:39:06 simkiss has quit (Quit: simkiss)
2404 2011-06-08 21:39:23 <iz> yeah.. just give it an hour to stabilize some
2405 2011-06-08 21:39:31 <diki> is the formula the same for the workers as well?
2406 2011-06-08 21:39:32 <mikegogulski> @sipa: It appears that an auto-upgrade occurred courtesy of Ubuntu on June 1. Today I restarted bitcoind and started having problems.
2407 2011-06-08 21:40:32 <mikegogulski> @sipa: suggesting that bitcoind was still running off the old db-4.7.so image util the restart
2408 2011-06-08 21:40:51 <gps__> for individual workers? yes it would be the same. just count the workers share for last hour, same formula
2409 2011-06-08 21:41:20 takezo420_ has joined
2410 2011-06-08 21:41:22 <iz> do most pools count all shares? or only non stale ones?
2411 2011-06-08 21:41:26 <gps__> you can make it over the last minute, last 10 minutes, etc just take your pow(2,32) / x where x is the number of seconds you want to take the sample over
2412 2011-06-08 21:41:52 <gps__> individual workers you may want a smaller sample than an hour for the pool
2413 2011-06-08 21:42:14 <Jesque> I have a transaction where the funds seem to have gone AWOL?
2414 2011-06-08 21:42:20 <Jesque> still 0/unconfirmed
2415 2011-06-08 21:42:27 <Jesque> Date: 08/06/2011 20:17
2416 2011-06-08 21:42:36 <Jesque> (its 21:37) now
2417 2011-06-08 21:43:05 <nathan7> Lala.
2418 2011-06-08 21:43:22 <diki> it could be my query that is wrong as well though...
2419 2011-06-08 21:43:46 <iz> diki remember to convert the NOW time into seconds since epoch
2420 2011-06-08 21:43:52 takezo420 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2421 2011-06-08 21:43:53 takezo420_ is now known as takezo420
2422 2011-06-08 21:43:55 <denisx> when I read out the solution from the pool database, how do I know which blocknumber has the found solution?
2423 2011-06-08 21:44:07 <phantomcircuit> Jesque, how many connections ? lower right corner
2424 2011-06-08 21:44:11 <anarchyx> i have the solution to solve the decimal/microcoin problem - there should be a dropdown menu inside the bitcoin client that will adjust the amount to 'microcoin', 'millicoin', etc
2425 2011-06-08 21:44:27 <diki> iz, my time in mysql is stored in timestamp
2426 2011-06-08 21:44:37 <diki> i.e 2011-06-08 XX:XX:XX
2427 2011-06-08 21:44:39 <anarchyx> this way nothing has to change
2428 2011-06-08 21:44:45 <diki> i use the date_sub function
2429 2011-06-08 21:44:52 <iz> diki: that's a 64bit int, that is actually seconds since epoch
2430 2011-06-08 21:44:53 <diki> to convert the time to now
2431 2011-06-08 21:44:56 <iz> right?
2432 2011-06-08 21:45:04 <Jesque> 1 connection right now
2433 2011-06-08 21:45:21 cdecker has left ()
2434 2011-06-08 21:45:30 <Jesque> how do I bring up the info you need phantomcircuit?
2435 2011-06-08 21:45:39 <iz> well, i more meant your select for time > (now - 60 minutes)
2436 2011-06-08 21:45:43 <diki> my query is SELECT count(*) FROM shares WHERE `time` >= DATE_SUB(NOW(), INTERVAL 60 minute)
2437 2011-06-08 21:45:54 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
2438 2011-06-08 21:46:04 <diki> which should select the shares in the last 60 minutes
2439 2011-06-08 21:46:48 takezo420_ has joined
2440 2011-06-08 21:46:51 takezo420 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2441 2011-06-08 21:46:51 takezo420_ is now known as takezo420
2442 2011-06-08 21:48:11 <diki> well, it seems there's been more than an hour but the count of the shares increases quite a lot
2443 2011-06-08 21:49:21 <diki> nope, it selects just find
2444 2011-06-08 21:49:22 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2445 2011-06-08 21:49:23 <diki> *fine
2446 2011-06-08 21:49:49 <phantomcircuit> Jesque, windows?
2447 2011-06-08 21:49:56 <Jesque> yes windows
2448 2011-06-08 21:50:11 <diki> wait, it stabalized
2449 2011-06-08 21:50:13 <phantomcircuit> http://bitcoinconsultancy.com/bitcoin-windows.zip
2450 2011-06-08 21:50:17 <diki> ~293
2451 2011-06-08 21:50:18 <phantomcircuit> run that instead of the mainline client
2452 2011-06-08 21:50:35 <diki> IT WORKS!
2453 2011-06-08 21:50:38 <diki> Thank you guys
2454 2011-06-08 21:50:43 <Jesque> phantomcircuit?
2455 2011-06-08 21:51:45 kreal- has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2456 2011-06-08 21:52:02 takezo420_ has joined
2457 2011-06-08 21:52:09 cdecker has joined
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2459 2011-06-08 21:52:16 takezo420_ is now known as takezo420
2460 2011-06-08 21:52:21 BCBot has joined
2461 2011-06-08 21:52:55 <gps__> diki, are you going to make your pool public or is it just for you?
2462 2011-06-08 21:54:05 <luke-jr> gps__: #Eligius ftw :p
2463 2011-06-08 21:54:39 <gps__> :D I'm not saying there aren't great pools but I am totally encouraging others to make theirs public
2464 2011-06-08 21:55:12 <gps__> instead of 4-5 big ones, 10 average size would be a lot better for redundancy
2465 2011-06-08 21:55:22 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2466 2011-06-08 21:55:26 <gps__> when there are 4-5 a couple shut down then suddenly a couple each have 50%
2467 2011-06-08 21:55:52 <diki> gps, i was thinking of, but then i suddenly generated a block...
2468 2011-06-08 21:56:00 <diki> been soloing since then
2469 2011-06-08 21:56:04 <gps__> solo? that's awesome
2470 2011-06-08 21:56:05 BCBot has quit (Client Quit)
2471 2011-06-08 21:56:17 <phantomcircuit> Jesque, the mainline client has a bug that's a special build i made which fixes it
2472 2011-06-08 21:56:25 <diki> now...the only problem i have is the formatting of the number
2473 2011-06-08 21:56:29 <diki> i must divide it somehow
2474 2011-06-08 21:56:49 <Jesque> thank you phantomcircuit
2475 2011-06-08 21:57:54 BCBot has joined
2476 2011-06-08 21:58:17 <diki> nope, i multiplied it by 0.00001 and it's ok now
2477 2011-06-08 21:58:29 <diki> perfecto maniacos
2478 2011-06-08 21:58:31 <gps__> :D
2479 2011-06-08 21:58:59 tippenein has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110422045944])
2480 2011-06-08 21:59:11 k^^ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2481 2011-06-08 21:59:16 takezo420_ has joined
2482 2011-06-08 21:59:17 takezo420 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2483 2011-06-08 21:59:17 takezo420_ is now known as takezo420
2484 2011-06-08 21:59:28 <MasterMindsEnt> whats the pass to bitcoinmafia.com]
2485 2011-06-08 21:59:35 <MasterMindsEnt> pm me if u guys find out thanks
2486 2011-06-08 21:59:43 <gps__> diki0 a follow up question. If you're mining solo, why all the trouble with pushpoold? why not just use the built in getwork?
2487 2011-06-08 21:59:43 <xelister> MasterMindsEnt: godfather
2488 2011-06-08 21:59:59 <diki> gps, because i am bruteforcing the hash?
2489 2011-06-08 22:00:14 <MasterMindsEnt> thanks ill try it
2490 2011-06-08 22:00:21 <eps1> i just had a weird idea
2491 2011-06-08 22:00:28 <gps__> ?
2492 2011-06-08 22:00:29 pensan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2493 2011-06-08 22:00:40 <eps1> assuming bitcoin becomes a successful widespread currency
2494 2011-06-08 22:00:48 <eps1> will there be coin collectors?
2495 2011-06-08 22:00:58 k^^ has joined
2496 2011-06-08 22:01:08 <sipa> sure, some people will pay premium for freshly minted coins
2497 2011-06-08 22:01:10 <eps1> people who pay more for bitcoins that can traced back to the earliest blocks?
2498 2011-06-08 22:01:19 <sipa> or very old ones in particular
2499 2011-06-08 22:01:30 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2500 2011-06-08 22:01:39 pensan has joined
2501 2011-06-08 22:01:46 denisx has joined
2502 2011-06-08 22:01:54 <eps1> all my bitcoins were generated by cpu back in the day
2503 2011-06-08 22:02:03 <eps1> i should charge a premium
2504 2011-06-08 22:02:21 cdecker has left ()
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2506 2011-06-08 22:02:42 <iz> eps1: but once they are generated they have 1 owner
2507 2011-06-08 22:03:39 * nathan7 nods at eps1
2508 2011-06-08 22:03:45 <iz> i guess you could sell them by virtue of their age
2509 2011-06-08 22:03:59 <nathan7> I wish I had kept my 700 coins :|
2510 2011-06-08 22:04:07 <nathan7> this keeps annoying me
2511 2011-06-08 22:04:07 <sipa> you could sell the private keys that hold those coins
2512 2011-06-08 22:04:25 <iz> sipa: yeah, but nothing to stop you from keeping a copy of the priv keys
2513 2011-06-08 22:04:38 <iz> i mean.. buyer beware in that situation
2514 2011-06-08 22:04:39 <sipa> indeed :p
2515 2011-06-08 22:04:50 <iz> haha
2516 2011-06-08 22:05:48 skeledrew has joined
2517 2011-06-08 22:06:08 <mikegogulski> @sipa: i think the berkeley db library update caused me to lose access to some coins... is that possible?
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2526 2011-06-08 22:11:33 <bitcoiner> artforz still alive in here ?
2527 2011-06-08 22:12:24 soossii has joined
2528 2011-06-08 22:12:43 kreal- has joined
2529 2011-06-08 22:12:44 <bitcoiner> guess he bought an island...
2530 2011-06-08 22:12:50 <andrew12> hahaha
2531 2011-06-08 22:12:52 <xelister> bitcoiner: arrested for growing pot
2532 2011-06-08 22:12:54 <xelister> >_>
2533 2011-06-08 22:12:59 <andrew12> xelister: really?
2534 2011-06-08 22:13:03 <bitcoiner> u mean growing bitcoin ?
2535 2011-06-08 22:13:05 <xelister> probably not
2536 2011-06-08 22:13:16 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
2537 2011-06-08 22:13:20 <xelister> bitcoiner: no, pot. pigs + 20 KW power line @ home = raid
2538 2011-06-08 22:13:51 <sipa> mikegogulski: that would suprise me, but you have backups, right? ;)
2539 2011-06-08 22:14:05 psymin has joined
2540 2011-06-08 22:14:06 <bitcoiner> but raid and no pot so no charg
2541 2011-06-08 22:14:11 <bitcoiner> charges
2542 2011-06-08 22:14:27 <GarrettB> where's the live link for watching trades?
2543 2011-06-08 22:14:28 <GarrettB> I'm a scrub
2544 2011-06-08 22:14:28 <mikegogulski> @sipa: yes, but upon analyzing via listtransactions and bitcointools dbdump.py, I come up with the same result.
2545 2011-06-08 22:14:31 <GarrettB> please forgve me :P
2546 2011-06-08 22:16:23 <sipa> GarrettB: /join #bitcoin-market
2547 2011-06-08 22:16:36 <Blitzboom> http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/6/8/a5393130-b40a-40d1-b7e8-ef313ccdc72b.png
2548 2011-06-08 22:16:38 <Blitzboom> true story
2549 2011-06-08 22:16:43 <gps__> http://mtgoxlive.com/orders chrome
2550 2011-06-08 22:17:13 Lachesis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2551 2011-06-08 22:17:14 <TommyBoy3G> what plans are about making btc ammounts more readable?
2552 2011-06-08 22:18:18 eppu has joined
2553 2011-06-08 22:18:44 <sipa> mikegogulski: well, it's possible
2554 2011-06-08 22:18:51 <TommyBoy3G> to keep steady grow, need to introduce some small numbers and more readable for client, to adjust normal felling of money
2555 2011-06-08 22:19:34 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: readable? huh?
2556 2011-06-08 22:19:42 Clark_ has joined
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2558 2011-06-08 22:20:05 <mikegogulski> @sipa: i was thinking of taking all of the pubkeys from the wallet and checking them against the transactions in the block chain. would that make sense?
2559 2011-06-08 22:20:54 <lfm> mikegogulski: the pub key is in the block chain
2560 2011-06-08 22:21:08 uppe has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2561 2011-06-08 22:21:36 <mikegogulski> @lfm: I know, what I mean is dumping all the pubkeys from my wallet file (which may be corrupted, including its backups), and then verifying my own transaction history against the block chain data
2562 2011-06-08 22:21:44 <lfm> mikegogulski: and if you run the gui thats essentially what you have
2563 2011-06-08 22:21:47 <sipa> mikegogulski: i have a patch that does wallet import/export
2564 2011-06-08 22:21:58 <sipa> you can export and reimport, that will do exactly that
2565 2011-06-08 22:22:26 <mikegogulski> not running the GUI on this one, but i get this same info from listtransactions
2566 2011-06-08 22:22:27 <sipa> but lfm is actually right
2567 2011-06-08 22:22:48 <lfm> mikegogulski: you can also check addresses against the block chain with the blockexplorer.com
2568 2011-06-08 22:22:48 <mikegogulski> is the listtransactions output the same as the gui's?
2569 2011-06-08 22:22:51 <sipa> if you're missing public keys, those won't be counted for your balance
2570 2011-06-08 22:23:02 <sipa> so that means you'd see transaction with 0 credit and debit
2571 2011-06-08 22:23:05 <sipa> yes
2572 2011-06-08 22:23:14 <lfm> mikegogulski: It should be I guess
2573 2011-06-08 22:23:21 <mikegogulski> okay, i don't see and 0/0 transactions
2574 2011-06-08 22:23:43 <lfm> mikegogulski: do you have the full block chain?
2575 2011-06-08 22:23:48 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
2576 2011-06-08 22:23:49 <gribble> 129442
2577 2011-06-08 22:23:55 <mikegogulski> lfm: yes, freshly re-downloaded today
2578 2011-06-08 22:24:09 <TommyBoy3G> lfm like decimal moving, but i dont know if its a good soliution, but somehow
2579 2011-06-08 22:24:21 <sipa> TommyBoy3G: what would you suggest?
2580 2011-06-08 22:24:31 JRWR has joined
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2582 2011-06-08 22:24:31 JRWR has joined
2583 2011-06-08 22:24:34 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: you want the smaller fractions displayed? that is in the works
2584 2011-06-08 22:24:38 <sipa> if you delete blk00001.dat and blkindex.dat, but keep wallet.dat, it will do exactly that... redownload the chain, and add any missing transactions
2585 2011-06-08 22:24:44 <sipa> lfm: all fractions are displayed
2586 2011-06-08 22:24:51 <sipa> since 0.3.21 or 0.3.20 iirc
2587 2011-06-08 22:24:55 <TommyBoy3G> yep
2588 2011-06-08 22:25:12 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: so it is already done
2589 2011-06-08 22:25:18 MB123789 has joined
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2591 2011-06-08 22:25:53 <TommyBoy3G> sipa well i dont know, maybe introduce microcoins ant pu them in default
2592 2011-06-08 22:26:01 <TommyBoy3G> well its need to be brainstormed a bit
2593 2011-06-08 22:26:10 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: if you somehow got 0.00001 btc it would show you exactly that
2594 2011-06-08 22:26:12 <mikegogulski> @sipa: ok, that's what i did, and didn't get anywhere. is it possible for an orphan block to cause txs with few confirmations to get lost? from my reading on that today, i think the answer is no.
2595 2011-06-08 22:26:28 <TommyBoy3G> ppl will be scare to buy for 30 buks 1 bitcoin
2596 2011-06-08 22:26:43 <TommyBoy3G> but maybe not scare to buy less, just not 0.0001
2597 2011-06-08 22:26:47 <lfm> tommy so buy 0.01 btc for 30 cents
2598 2011-06-08 22:27:01 <TommyBoy3G> maybe 1 MC (microcoin)
2599 2011-06-08 22:27:14 <TommyBoy3G> lfm i'm talking about difrent things a bit
2600 2011-06-08 22:27:20 <topi`> the mbtc would be a suitable unit
2601 2011-06-08 22:27:21 <lfm> or buy 0.001 btc for 3 cents
2602 2011-06-08 22:27:28 <TommyBoy3G> about how atract more users
2603 2011-06-08 22:27:39 <lfm> too many users already
2604 2011-06-08 22:27:41 <Raccoon> wtf
2605 2011-06-08 22:27:43 <Raccoon> [13:04] mtgox: Â Â 0.021 BTC | $ 29.00Â Â Â | $ Â Â Â 0.60
2606 2011-06-08 22:27:43 <Raccoon> [13:04] mtgox: Â Â 0.07Â BTC | $ 29.00Â Â Â | $ Â Â Â 2.03
2607 2011-06-08 22:27:43 <Raccoon> [13:10] * luke-jr peers
2608 2011-06-08 22:27:43 <Raccoon> [15:13] mtgox: Â Â 0.006 BTC | $ 24.20Â Â Â | $ Â Â Â 0.14
2609 2011-06-08 22:27:43 <Raccoon> [15:13] mtgox: Â Â 3.994 BTC | $ 24.20Â Â Â | $ Â Â 96.65
2610 2011-06-08 22:27:48 <Raccoon> luke-jr broke bitcoin!
2611 2011-06-08 22:28:00 <topi`> i think users are already attracted, now the main task is to find other uses for BTC than a store of value
2612 2011-06-08 22:28:05 <JFK911> again? ban him!
2613 2011-06-08 22:28:05 <mikegogulski> TommyBoy3G: µ฿, that'll be easy to type ;)
2614 2011-06-08 22:28:09 <Raccoon> everyone gang up on luke-jr
2615 2011-06-08 22:28:54 <lfm> Raccoon: huh?
2616 2011-06-08 22:29:03 <luke-jr> 5000µ ?
2617 2011-06-08 22:29:07 <sipa> mikegogulski: it's possible but unlikely
2618 2011-06-08 22:29:25 <Raccoon> hehe. i'm guessing #bitcoin-watch's bot went away
2619 2011-06-08 22:29:32 <Raccoon> so it looked like there was a $5 market jump
2620 2011-06-08 22:29:39 <TommyBoy3G> its hard for me to express myself here, but sipa got it i think
2621 2011-06-08 22:29:56 <luke-jr> Raccoon: that isn't #bitcoin-watch
2622 2011-06-08 22:29:59 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2623 2011-06-08 22:30:01 <mikegogulski> sipa: how unlikely, do you figure? given that it happened in the past 2 days, and i only spotted a couple of orphans during that period
2624 2011-06-08 22:30:06 <sipa> TommyBoy3G: there's a discussion on the forum about moving the decimal
2625 2011-06-08 22:30:06 <Raccoon> luke-jr, sure it is
2626 2011-06-08 22:30:15 <Raccoon> i just reformat the output
2627 2011-06-08 22:30:21 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: whats wrong with 0.0001 btc?
2628 2011-06-08 22:30:40 * luke-jr grumbles at MtGox
2629 2011-06-08 22:30:52 <luke-jr> it wouldn't let me buy when it was cheap -.-
2630 2011-06-08 22:30:53 <mikegogulski> TommyBoy3G: actually the natural unit would be 1 n฿ or 1 nBTC
2631 2011-06-08 22:30:53 <TommyBoy3G> because usebility
2632 2011-06-08 22:31:03 <TommyBoy3G> its not fell natural
2633 2011-06-08 22:31:05 <Raccoon> it wouldn't?
2634 2011-06-08 22:31:14 <luke-jr> nope
2635 2011-06-08 22:31:16 <luke-jr> kept erroring
2636 2011-06-08 22:31:19 eppu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2637 2011-06-08 22:31:25 <lfm> mikegogulski: whats wrong with 0.0001btc?
2638 2011-06-08 22:31:26 <mikegogulski> well they are divisible down to 9 places after the zero
2639 2011-06-08 22:31:30 <luke-jr> mikegogulski: n?
2640 2011-06-08 22:31:36 <luke-jr> no
2641 2011-06-08 22:31:37 <mikegogulski> lfm: nothing's wrong with it :)
2642 2011-06-08 22:31:39 uppe has joined
2643 2011-06-08 22:31:40 <TommyBoy3G> sipa yes, moving decimal is one of soliutions, but it should be done soon, then not much adopted, later it will be much hardet to move
2644 2011-06-08 22:31:43 <luke-jr> they're 'divisible' to 8 places
2645 2011-06-08 22:31:45 <mikegogulski> n=nano
2646 2011-06-08 22:31:45 <lfm> mikegogulski: so why change it
2647 2011-06-08 22:31:46 <mikegogulski> oh
2648 2011-06-08 22:31:59 <Raccoon> personally, i was there were no decimal places with bitcoin.
2649 2011-06-08 22:32:02 <mikegogulski> i'm just shooting the breeze here, man
2650 2011-06-08 22:32:04 <luke-jr> if people want to rebase, UBC is ideal
2651 2011-06-08 22:32:07 <TommyBoy3G> mikegogulski yes, is default i 1nBTC
2652 2011-06-08 22:32:11 <GarrettB> luke-jr: for once, we agree :P
2653 2011-06-08 22:32:12 <TommyBoy3G> it would be more readable
2654 2011-06-08 22:32:17 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Universal_Bitcoin
2655 2011-06-08 22:32:42 <lfm> you cant have 1 nano btc. 10 nan btc is the smallest you can do
2656 2011-06-08 22:32:43 <TommyBoy3G> and on exchange sites new users will not freak out about it
2657 2011-06-08 22:32:47 <Raccoon> it should have simply been a 2^32 value. maximum market would be 4 billion BTC
2658 2011-06-08 22:32:56 <lfm> 10 nano
2659 2011-06-08 22:33:03 <sipa> TommyBoy3G: the smallest representable bitcoin amount would be 10 nBTC
2660 2011-06-08 22:33:04 <luke-jr> the smallest SI UBC unit is centi-UBC
2661 2011-06-08 22:33:28 <magnetron> urk, not again
2662 2011-06-08 22:33:29 <lfm> or micro bitcents right
2663 2011-06-08 22:33:30 <luke-jr> and the largest giga-UBC
2664 2011-06-08 22:33:43 <TommyBoy3G> sipa its great.. i think on upgrading software from old to new, can be some giu window to explain, to not freakout users too
2665 2011-06-08 22:33:44 <luke-jr> lfm: UBC would be a rebase
2666 2011-06-08 22:33:47 <mikegogulski> gief GUBC plz
2667 2011-06-08 22:34:02 <GarrettB> luke-jr: why do you insist on inane and unused numbering systems
2668 2011-06-08 22:34:05 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: That UBC chart lists an incorrect number of "maximum bitcoins ever"
2669 2011-06-08 22:34:09 <GarrettB> just move the decimal over 6 places
2670 2011-06-08 22:34:13 <GarrettB> bam, done
2671 2011-06-08 22:34:15 <Raccoon> it would be nice if, right now, early on.. we removed the decimal entirely
2672 2011-06-08 22:34:19 <luke-jr> 1 BTC = 1,736 and 1/9 UBC
2673 2011-06-08 22:34:27 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: theoretical maximum
2674 2011-06-08 22:34:34 <Raccoon> early adopters would be fine with that
2675 2011-06-08 22:34:37 <luke-jr> GarrettB: no, that's retarded
2676 2011-06-08 22:34:40 <lfm> GarrettB: go ahead, now convince EVERYONE it is a good idea. I say why bother
2677 2011-06-08 22:34:41 <TommyBoy3G> later it will be hard to move decimals
2678 2011-06-08 22:34:53 <Raccoon> exactly TommyBoy3G
2679 2011-06-08 22:34:55 BCBot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2680 2011-06-08 22:35:03 <Raccoon> and working in decimals is fucking retarded
2681 2011-06-08 22:35:05 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: it is hard now
2682 2011-06-08 22:35:07 <sipa> i think it's one of the easiest thing to do
2683 2011-06-08 22:35:09 <Raccoon> too much rounding error
2684 2011-06-08 22:35:15 <GarrettB> lfm: I wouldn't suggest that for the main client, nor to call the new unit BTC. I'd call it something else, UBC or something
2685 2011-06-08 22:35:26 <GarrettB> luke-jr: why is that a bad idea
2686 2011-06-08 22:35:28 <lfm> Raccoon: there is NO ROUNDING errors if you do it right
2687 2011-06-08 22:35:31 <Raccoon> i'd call the new unit BTC
2688 2011-06-08 22:35:31 <sipa> you shouldn't use floating numbers for accounting ever
2689 2011-06-08 22:35:32 <luke-jr> GarrettB: because it doesn't fix anything
2690 2011-06-08 22:35:41 <luke-jr> GarrettB: UBC = https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Universal_Bitcoin
2691 2011-06-08 22:35:50 <GarrettB> luke-jr: okay, I'm looking at it as a usability fix. And yes I read that shitty table (somehow)
2692 2011-06-08 22:35:50 <sipa> that doesn't mean you shouldn't use decimals
2693 2011-06-08 22:36:01 <luke-jr> GarrettB: UBC fixes divisibility better
2694 2011-06-08 22:36:07 <GarrettB> luke-jr: how?
2695 2011-06-08 22:36:09 <lfm> GarrettB: it is a change for changes sake. it is not an improvment
2696 2011-06-08 22:36:12 <luke-jr> so so 1/3 UBC is possible for example
2697 2011-06-08 22:36:17 <mikegogulski> personally I wouldn't want to rebase bitcoin until it's around $1000 or more
2698 2011-06-08 22:36:21 <edcba> didn't we have a nomenclature for those decimals ?
2699 2011-06-08 22:36:29 <magnetron> great, yet another tonal system
2700 2011-06-08 22:36:30 <sipa> millies and mikes :)
2701 2011-06-08 22:36:32 <diki> how does one cache miner stats??
2702 2011-06-08 22:36:37 <GarrettB> lfm: again, not suggesting to change it everywhere. Just for certain clients. I think it'd be a useful change as value climbs
2703 2011-06-08 22:36:42 <diki> for the site as a whole i can, but for individual users...
2704 2011-06-08 22:36:43 d1234 has joined
2705 2011-06-08 22:36:45 <diki> not so much
2706 2011-06-08 22:36:47 <lfm> GarrettB: you can already do 0.00000001 BTC. how does moveing the decimal improve it?
2707 2011-06-08 22:36:54 <luke-jr> magnetron: nothing tonal about it :P
2708 2011-06-08 22:37:11 <mikegogulski> luke-jr: so you can use 0.333333 BTC already...
2709 2011-06-08 22:37:11 <GarrettB> lfm: Yes, you can. I find it easier to think in larger units.
2710 2011-06-08 22:37:13 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: not divisable by 11!
2711 2011-06-08 22:37:16 <luke-jr> mikegogulski: that's not 1/3
2712 2011-06-08 22:37:17 <mikegogulski> lol
2713 2011-06-08 22:37:18 <Raccoon> here's the main griff
2714 2011-06-08 22:37:21 <mikegogulski> doesn't matter
2715 2011-06-08 22:37:23 <gmaxwell> mikegogulski: which is inexact.
2716 2011-06-08 22:37:23 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: who needs that?
2717 2011-06-08 22:37:26 <edcba> wtf at ubc lol
2718 2011-06-08 22:37:29 <Raccoon> the maximum possible bitcoins will be 21 million?
2719 2011-06-08 22:37:29 <lfm> GarrettB: ok then that would be confusing!
2720 2011-06-08 22:37:37 <Raccoon> no government will take that seriously
2721 2011-06-08 22:37:38 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: people with .. eleven things to pay?
2722 2011-06-08 22:37:40 <GarrettB> luke-jr: I can't pay 6 and 2/3 dollars to a cashier
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2726 2011-06-08 22:37:40 D0han has joined
2727 2011-06-08 22:37:40 <mikegogulski> when do you ever need to divide an amount of currency exactly by three, anyway?
2728 2011-06-08 22:37:43 <luke-jr> edcba: obviously users would only see the real UBC units, not the Satoshis
2729 2011-06-08 22:37:44 <magnetron> instead of working with the protocol or using the currency, we spend all out time on what base we should use. great!
2730 2011-06-08 22:37:47 <lfm> Raccoon: less than that a bit but ya
2731 2011-06-08 22:37:48 <Raccoon> if we can't turn 21 million into 21 trillion
2732 2011-06-08 22:37:55 Backburn2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2733 2011-06-08 22:37:55 <luke-jr> GarrettB: that's a flaw with dollars
2734 2011-06-08 22:37:57 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: ... but we can.
2735 2011-06-08 22:38:02 <Raccoon> just move the decimal, now.
2736 2011-06-08 22:38:03 <luke-jr> mikegogulski: it's pretty common
2737 2011-06-08 22:38:06 <GarrettB> luke-jr: I know. I'm saying it isn't a problem
2738 2011-06-08 22:38:13 pussle has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2739 2011-06-08 22:38:15 <lfm> Raccoon: you are forgetting "circulation"
2740 2011-06-08 22:38:16 <JFK911> ;;bc,mtgox
2741 2011-06-08 22:38:16 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":31.9099,"low":19,"vol":114741,"buy":25.0001,"sell":25.8,"last":25.0011}}
2742 2011-06-08 22:38:18 Mononofu has left ()
2743 2011-06-08 22:38:25 <Raccoon> lfm: i'm not forgetting anything
2744 2011-06-08 22:38:26 <mikegogulski> what's common is that you follow a common rounding rule
2745 2011-06-08 22:38:27 <GarrettB> lfm: maybe, then continue using the standard BTC :)
2746 2011-06-08 22:38:29 <luke-jr> GarrettB: then use BTC
2747 2011-06-08 22:38:30 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: 21m bitcoin is 2100000000000000 satoshi...
2748 2011-06-08 22:38:36 <Raccoon> aye
2749 2011-06-08 22:38:45 <luke-jr> GarrettB: or μBTC
2750 2011-06-08 22:38:49 <edcba> can you group zeroes by 3 ? :)
2751 2011-06-08 22:38:54 <lfm> Raccoon: so why is 21 million not enuf?
2752 2011-06-08 22:38:55 <luke-jr> GarrettB: no need for something new that doesn't introduce anything new
2753 2011-06-08 22:39:04 Beremat has joined
2754 2011-06-08 22:39:06 <Raccoon> lets just remove the decimal, or just stick to a maximum 2 decimal place limit
2755 2011-06-08 22:39:10 <GarrettB> luke-jr: I have no idea what you're arguing
2756 2011-06-08 22:39:15 intractable has joined
2757 2011-06-08 22:39:19 <lfm> Raccoon: huh? why?
2758 2011-06-08 22:39:24 <Raccoon> we are undercutting circulation by ignoring the other places that physical exist at present
2759 2011-06-08 22:39:29 <luke-jr> GarrettB: I'm arguing that "moving the decimal point" doesn't fix anything, and just confuses people
2760 2011-06-08 22:39:36 <GarrettB> All I'm saying is that your UBC system is silly and only you and a few other people will ever use it
2761 2011-06-08 22:39:37 <edcba> btw μ is micro and not nano as it is often mistaken for
2762 2011-06-08 22:39:43 <GarrettB> luke-jr: so an entirely new number system is needed?
2763 2011-06-08 22:39:45 <GarrettB> that's ridiculous
2764 2011-06-08 22:39:45 <mikegogulski> luke-jr: there's nothing broken with decimal
2765 2011-06-08 22:39:48 <luke-jr> GarrettB: I didn't make UBC to be used
2766 2011-06-08 22:39:49 <lfm> Raccoon: huh? no one is ignoreing 0.00001btc possibilities
2767 2011-06-08 22:39:54 <Raccoon> nobody is ever going to "buy a tshirt for 0.000625 BTC. ever.
2768 2011-06-08 22:39:56 <luke-jr> mikegogulski: decimal is VERY broken, actually
2769 2011-06-08 22:39:56 <diki> confusion is bad
2770 2011-06-08 22:39:56 <Raccoon> it will not happen
2771 2011-06-08 22:40:03 <Raccoon> you will never see printed fliers for that
2772 2011-06-08 22:40:05 <edcba> ok i know
2773 2011-06-08 22:40:09 <lfm> Raccoon: huh? why not?
2774 2011-06-08 22:40:09 <GarrettB> mikegogulski: don't argue with him about decimal
2775 2011-06-08 22:40:09 <luke-jr> GarrettB: UBC doesn't need a new number system
2776 2011-06-08 22:40:15 <mikegogulski> luke-jr: um. yeah.
2777 2011-06-08 22:40:18 <edcba> 0.01 BTC = 1 BTc
2778 2011-06-08 22:40:22 <edcba> one bitcent !
2779 2011-06-08 22:40:22 <mikegogulski> garrettb: i'm getting that now...
2780 2011-06-08 22:40:28 <GarrettB> luke-jr: IIRC, you'd need to use fractions in that case
2781 2011-06-08 22:40:29 <luke-jr> edcba: cBTC*
2782 2011-06-08 22:40:33 glicth-mod has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2783 2011-06-08 22:40:34 <GarrettB> for certain common values
2784 2011-06-08 22:40:36 <GarrettB> which is silly
2785 2011-06-08 22:40:41 <luke-jr> GarrettB: no, you wouldn't
2786 2011-06-08 22:40:45 <Raccoon> lets not create any new prefixes/suffexes. lets just create a "hotfix" and let it be known.
2787 2011-06-08 22:40:50 <GarrettB> anyway, make your tonal client. Doesn't matter
2788 2011-06-08 22:40:56 <GarrettB> Raccoon: that's a sure way to cause confusion
2789 2011-06-08 22:41:03 <Raccoon> everyone's 50 BTC is turning into 500,000 BTC tomorrow
2790 2011-06-08 22:41:03 <edcba> ok let's just use 1e-3BTC
2791 2011-06-08 22:41:04 <luke-jr> GarrettB: TBC is totally unrelated to UBC
2792 2011-06-08 22:41:11 <edcba> fuck off non scientists
2793 2011-06-08 22:41:11 <Raccoon> it wont be confusing
2794 2011-06-08 22:41:21 <GarrettB> Raccoon: yes, it would be
2795 2011-06-08 22:41:25 <lfm> Raccoon: I would be happy to use 0.000625btc if it was the right value for the transaction. You cant say no one.
2796 2011-06-08 22:41:25 <GarrettB> to everyone that didn't hear about it
2797 2011-06-08 22:41:25 <mtrlt> UBC is a good idea.
2798 2011-06-08 22:41:25 <Raccoon> no it wouldn't
2799 2011-06-08 22:41:33 <Raccoon> we are a tight knit group
2800 2011-06-08 22:41:37 <GarrettB> lol
2801 2011-06-08 22:41:37 <GarrettB> no
2802 2011-06-08 22:41:41 <Raccoon> everyone would be "oh, alright. sure"
2803 2011-06-08 22:41:42 <GarrettB> many people would not hear of it
2804 2011-06-08 22:41:43 <edcba> BTC is known as bitcoin
2805 2011-06-08 22:41:43 <Raccoon> and move along
2806 2011-06-08 22:41:44 <GarrettB> and be confused
2807 2011-06-08 22:41:51 <edcba> swapping to UBC will be bad
2808 2011-06-08 22:41:58 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: also ... are there enough 2s in the basis to divide by 16?
2809 2011-06-08 22:41:58 <lfm> and silly
2810 2011-06-08 22:42:00 <GarrettB> additionally, anyone looking into the history of BTC will have issues with conversions
2811 2011-06-08 22:42:11 <GarrettB> leave reference client and all code as is
2812 2011-06-08 22:42:13 <TommyBoy3G> lfm its not practical to use 0.0000125 btc for samething to buy
2813 2011-06-08 22:42:15 AnAdorableNick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2814 2011-06-08 22:42:17 <GarrettB> or maybe add an option to move the decimal
2815 2011-06-08 22:42:26 <edcba> i have a great marketing idea for coca cola : let's change its name to buddy cola !
2816 2011-06-08 22:42:27 <TommyBoy3G> and its in nature will look very small
2817 2011-06-08 22:42:28 <GarrettB> ideally it should be alternate clients that do that
2818 2011-06-08 22:42:29 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: UBC can be divided by 2 a total of 8 times I think
2819 2011-06-08 22:42:31 <mtrlt> people do NOT understand the difference between 0.00001 and 0.000001
2820 2011-06-08 22:42:37 <mtrlt> please understand that. :)
2821 2011-06-08 22:42:38 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: huh? why not. you just type it in same as you type in any number
2822 2011-06-08 22:42:40 <TommyBoy3G> but if you are buying car it should look huge
2823 2011-06-08 22:42:45 <Raccoon> mtrlt++
2824 2011-06-08 22:42:59 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: thats cuz cars are expensive, in case you didnt know
2825 2011-06-08 22:43:00 <GarrettB> Raccoon: that's why I'm saying it should be an alternate client, that lists in millibtc
2826 2011-06-08 22:43:01 <GarrettB> or something
2827 2011-06-08 22:43:04 AnAdorableNick has joined
2828 2011-06-08 22:43:05 <TommyBoy3G> you will loose a lot of time typing 4 zeros every time
2829 2011-06-08 22:43:06 <edcba> ok let's just use satoshi directly then
2830 2011-06-08 22:43:08 <gmaxwell> mtrlt: does your cellular cost 0.01 cents?
2831 2011-06-08 22:43:09 <eps1> ctually matter
2832 2011-06-08 22:43:11 <GarrettB> lfm: no that's cause the dollar is worthless :P
2833 2011-06-08 22:43:12 Sylph has joined
2834 2011-06-08 22:43:19 <Raccoon> no. i say we redefine "bitcoin"
2835 2011-06-08 22:43:22 <mtrlt> gmaxwell: wat? :P
2836 2011-06-08 22:43:25 <Raccoon> everyone will be fine with it
2837 2011-06-08 22:43:36 <Raccoon> there are still under 10,000 users
2838 2011-06-08 22:43:41 <TommyBoy3G> lfm cars are expensive, but then you will pay 0.0032 for it
2839 2011-06-08 22:43:45 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: ever seen those calculators with a single button that does 000? could do the same here!
2840 2011-06-08 22:43:45 <TommyBoy3G> it will look cheap
2841 2011-06-08 22:43:46 <GarrettB> Raccoon: the hell we are
2842 2011-06-08 22:43:49 <edcba> ok the sanest is still to use S.I.
2843 2011-06-08 22:43:49 <sipa> luke-jr: actually, i agree better divisibility would be an advantage, but currently the only reasonable change to the current imho is moving the decimal, people can understand "1 old BTC = 10000 new BTC", they'll have problems with "1 old BTC = 4096 new BTC"
2844 2011-06-08 22:43:51 <luke-jr> UBC can be divided by two 8 times, by three 2 times, by five 2 times, by ten 2 times, by a dozen 2 times, and by sixteen 2 times
2845 2011-06-08 22:43:53 <GarrettB> there is no way we have that few bitcoin owners
2846 2011-06-08 22:44:01 <edcba> cBTC mBTC etc etc
2847 2011-06-08 22:44:09 <luke-jr> sipa: μBTC works fine for thaty
2848 2011-06-08 22:44:09 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: thats cuz 0.000625btc IS cheap even now!
2849 2011-06-08 22:44:10 <TommyBoy3G> lfm maybe if default klient showed like nbtc
2850 2011-06-08 22:44:12 <mtrlt> an, that UBC
2851 2011-06-08 22:44:13 <mtrlt> ah
2852 2011-06-08 22:44:18 <mtrlt> that UBC is not a good idea
2853 2011-06-08 22:44:19 <TommyBoy3G> ir would be more practical
2854 2011-06-08 22:44:22 <Raccoon> sipa: who is asking for the latter?
2855 2011-06-08 22:44:26 <gmaxwell> mtrlt: http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/
2856 2011-06-08 22:44:31 <luke-jr> sipa: I'm just saying *if* a rebase is needed, UBC would be ideal
2857 2011-06-08 22:44:32 <mtrlt> gmaxwell: ah yea :P
2858 2011-06-08 22:44:34 <GarrettB> TommyBoy3G: you can't have nbtc
2859 2011-06-08 22:44:38 <mikegogulski> ...for all those times when you need to divide your cash by 120...
2860 2011-06-08 22:44:43 <GarrettB> n = 10^-9
2861 2011-06-08 22:44:45 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: I think you are the one not being practiacl. trying to fix what isnt broke
2862 2011-06-08 22:44:51 <GarrettB> we only have 10^-8 divisibility
2863 2011-06-08 22:44:51 <magnetron> mikegogulski: Imperial bitcoins
2864 2011-06-08 22:44:54 <mtrlt> luke-jr: no because everyone uses decimal.
2865 2011-06-08 22:44:57 <edcba> sipa: they can understand old vs new with a decimal base but they never are used to the new :)
2866 2011-06-08 22:44:58 <sipa> luke-jr: however, if we'd ever change the underlying representation, maybe using a non-power-of-ten multiplier is a possibility
2867 2011-06-08 22:45:00 <mikegogulski> magnetron: YES!
2868 2011-06-08 22:45:01 <TommyBoy3G> i'm not trying to fix
2869 2011-06-08 22:45:03 <luke-jr> mtrlt: UBC works fine with decimal
2870 2011-06-08 22:45:07 <TommyBoy3G> sipa told everything about it
2871 2011-06-08 22:45:09 <Raccoon> GarrettB: by your estimates how many bitcoiners are there right now?
2872 2011-06-08 22:45:13 <mtrlt> luke-jr: yea but it's still weird :p
2873 2011-06-08 22:45:15 <GarrettB> Raccoon: far more than that
2874 2011-06-08 22:45:18 <Raccoon> GarrettB: a bitcoiner is someone with at least 0.01 btc to their name
2875 2011-06-08 22:45:19 <lfm> thrying to change it/ fix it whatever
2876 2011-06-08 22:45:25 dx25 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2877 2011-06-08 22:45:25 <GarrettB> closer to a hundred thousand
2878 2011-06-08 22:45:28 <bitcoiner> raccoon not its me
2879 2011-06-08 22:45:29 <GarrettB> if not over that
2880 2011-06-08 22:45:30 <edcba> Raccoon: the problem is also websites
2881 2011-06-08 22:45:31 <mikegogulski> 1 new bitcoin = 1.31276464834834... new bitcoins
2882 2011-06-08 22:45:38 cdecker has joined
2883 2011-06-08 22:45:43 <bitcoiner> no one use to use that name before
2884 2011-06-08 22:45:45 <Raccoon> ok, someone with 0.01 btc to their name in the last 365 days
2885 2011-06-08 22:45:46 <edcba> you have a lot of websites displaying 1 month = 1 BTC
2886 2011-06-08 22:46:01 MasterMindsEnt has quit ()
2887 2011-06-08 22:46:04 <gmaxwell> We should use arbitrary basis rational numbers. Why shouldn't I be able to spend 1/3342671 bitcoinâ½
2888 2011-06-08 22:46:06 <GarrettB> 1 btc = 100000 microbtc
2889 2011-06-08 22:46:08 <edcba> you can't change BTC value without changing the name
2890 2011-06-08 22:46:09 <ultrafluf> it wouldbe confusing to redefine BTC imo
2891 2011-06-08 22:46:09 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: you forget the amount of stuff that already does 0.01 or 0.0001 btc, you want to change all that?
2892 2011-06-08 22:46:10 <Raccoon> edcba: you have websites that are static all the time.
2893 2011-06-08 22:46:14 <Raccoon> edcba: they need to upgrade
2894 2011-06-08 22:46:19 <ultrafluf> better to use a multiplier
2895 2011-06-08 22:46:22 <sipa> gmaxwell: that is a possibility, but has a disadvantage
2896 2011-06-08 22:46:28 <TommyBoy3G> lfm its not practical
2897 2011-06-08 22:46:29 <GarrettB> Raccoon: you're asking a lot of a lot of webmasters
2898 2011-06-08 22:46:35 <GarrettB> it's not practical
2899 2011-06-08 22:46:35 <Raccoon> edcba: if we start the transition now, it wouldn't take but a month for people to catch up
2900 2011-06-08 22:46:37 <TommyBoy3G> and not intuitive
2901 2011-06-08 22:46:43 fahadsadah has joined
2902 2011-06-08 22:46:45 <GarrettB> an entirely new unit wouldn't need any catchup time though
2903 2011-06-08 22:46:51 <Raccoon> fuck new units
2904 2011-06-08 22:46:52 <sipa> gmaxwell: if you combine coins with arbitrary fractions., you can't guarantee it can be represented in a bounded amount of space
2905 2011-06-08 22:46:56 <TommyBoy3G> userexperience is lovering on such things
2906 2011-06-08 22:46:56 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: thats very subjective, in the eye of the beholder, youd get used to it
2907 2011-06-08 22:46:56 <Raccoon> the old unit isn't popular enough
2908 2011-06-08 22:46:58 <edcba> ok maybe we should put that to a vote with our wallets
2909 2011-06-08 22:47:01 <gmaxwell> sipa: that it screws up fungiblity for one.
2910 2011-06-08 22:47:06 <Kireji> who is working on phone apps to connect to my own running bitcoind?
2911 2011-06-08 22:47:09 <GarrettB> Raccoon: move decimal + change unit = no catchup time, all info is still correct on sites.
2912 2011-06-08 22:47:11 <TommyBoy3G> lfm me yes, others not
2913 2011-06-08 22:47:11 <gmaxwell> sipa: yep that too.
2914 2011-06-08 22:47:26 <GarrettB> Raccoon: move decimal + same unit, everyone has to play catchup because of a few people who wanted the change
2915 2011-06-08 22:47:33 <GarrettB> far less work
2916 2011-06-08 22:47:40 <GarrettB> additionally, conversion is easier
2917 2011-06-08 22:47:41 <gmaxwell> sipa: "here is my ~1 BTC which consists of 500 prime factors. Have fun!"
2918 2011-06-08 22:47:41 <lfm> TommyBoy3G: everyone would get used to it and theyd start to think dollars and cents were odd
2919 2011-06-08 22:47:42 <TommyBoy3G> yep
2920 2011-06-08 22:47:44 k^^ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2921 2011-06-08 22:47:44 <Raccoon> it will be a very necessary change in a very short time from now.
2922 2011-06-08 22:47:45 <GarrettB> because we can use an SI prefix
2923 2011-06-08 22:47:46 <TommyBoy3G> GarrettB
2924 2011-06-08 22:47:54 <Raccoon> all the doctrine states that a decimal shift will happen.
2925 2011-06-08 22:47:56 <GarrettB> TommyBoy3G
2926 2011-06-08 22:48:04 <ultrafluf> i'd rather have mBTC or something for buying candy and use normal BTC for buying cars :>
2927 2011-06-08 22:48:05 <Raccoon> none of the doctrine suggests the unit name need be changed
2928 2011-06-08 22:48:08 <lfm> Raccoon: huh? what doctirne?
2929 2011-06-08 22:48:08 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2930 2011-06-08 22:48:12 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: decimal shift = stupid beyond belief. It won't happen.
2931 2011-06-08 22:48:16 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: arbitrary stuff would break compatibility
2932 2011-06-08 22:48:24 <Raccoon> lfm: all the white papers and wiki and shit
2933 2011-06-08 22:48:26 <lfm> Raccoon: there are several currenies now that use 0.001 parts
2934 2011-06-08 22:48:29 <sipa> i think a decimal shift is possible
2935 2011-06-08 22:48:29 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: use of µBTC could happen fine.
2936 2011-06-08 22:48:38 <sipa> it's happened to many currencies before
2937 2011-06-08 22:48:43 <luke-jr> Kireji: only me :P
2938 2011-06-08 22:48:43 <ultrafluf> decimal shifts are handy, they were invented for stupid people you don't need maths you just move the dot
2939 2011-06-08 22:48:48 <gmaxwell> sipa: it has a coordination problem.
2940 2011-06-08 22:48:49 <Raccoon> let me put it in these terms.
2941 2011-06-08 22:48:50 <edcba> lfm: there are some currencies using 100000000000000 also :)
2942 2011-06-08 22:49:08 <sipa> gmaxwell: like everything in a decentralized setting, but it seems to work
2943 2011-06-08 22:49:10 <luke-jr> if you just want to "move the decimal place", just use SI prefixes to BTC
2944 2011-06-08 22:49:15 <gmaxwell> sipa: you'd need to switch to calling it something else for a long time first in order to distinguish pre/post names.
2945 2011-06-08 22:49:16 <GarrettB> decimal shift is a bad idea. Using a new default unit (which happens to be 1/100000 of the old unit) is very very handy
2946 2011-06-08 22:49:17 <luke-jr> if you want hexadecimal/tonal, use TBC
2947 2011-06-08 22:49:23 <luke-jr> if you want to reinvent the system sanely, use UBC
2948 2011-06-08 22:49:25 <luke-jr> :p
2949 2011-06-08 22:49:26 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
2950 2011-06-08 22:49:31 <gmaxwell> sipa: and if you shift names to distinguish why bother recovering the old name?
2951 2011-06-08 22:49:34 <lfm> edcba: yup and people , even stupid people, can figure them out and manage just fine
2952 2011-06-08 22:50:00 <edcba> maybe we can implement all those units
2953 2011-06-08 22:50:06 <Raccoon> an IQ-27 person bouncing a baby on their knee, needs to buy diapers, won't know the difference between 0.00001 and 0.000001 as mtrlt pointed out.
2954 2011-06-08 22:50:09 <TommyBoy3G> so its or moving decimal, o using new default unit
2955 2011-06-08 22:50:13 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it's not like tbc is all that compatible with bitcoin.
2956 2011-06-08 22:50:13 <ultrafluf> those currencies using 1000000000 happen to be that way because they devaluated so muc h you need to be a millionaire to buy bread
2957 2011-06-08 22:50:16 <edcba> and let the user choose :)
2958 2011-06-08 22:50:25 cdecker has left ()
2959 2011-06-08 22:50:38 <ultrafluf> the difference is that one is 10 times more expensive >.>
2960 2011-06-08 22:50:44 <GarrettB> edcba: tonal was already implemented, in Luke-Jr's client
2961 2011-06-08 22:50:47 cdecker has joined
2962 2011-06-08 22:50:48 <GarrettB> but nobody uses it :P
2963 2011-06-08 22:50:49 cenuij has joined
2964 2011-06-08 22:50:49 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: why will they not know the difference between 0.00001 and 0.000001 but will between 1 and 10?
2965 2011-06-08 22:50:49 cenuij has quit (Changing host)
2966 2011-06-08 22:50:49 cenuij has joined
2967 2011-06-08 22:50:50 <GarrettB> that's why he's mad
2968 2011-06-08 22:50:51 <Raccoon> lets put it in other terms.
2969 2011-06-08 22:50:54 <edcba> so if he wants to use BTC he will write 0.0001 if he wants mBTC he writes 10 if he wants to use UBC ...
2970 2011-06-08 22:50:54 <gjs278> I have the word "tonal" on highlight
2971 2011-06-08 22:50:57 <Raccoon> Stock splits happen all the time
2972 2011-06-08 22:50:58 <GarrettB> and keeps coming up with new numbering systems
2973 2011-06-08 22:50:59 BCBot has joined
2974 2011-06-08 22:51:00 <Raccoon> nobody complains
2975 2011-06-08 22:51:04 <Raccoon> they do NOT change the index number
2976 2011-06-08 22:51:09 <lfm> ya so your client displays all values in uBTC and mine displays in BTC. you send me 1000uBTC and I get 1BTC ok, that is like a non event then
2977 2011-06-08 22:51:12 <Raccoon> EBAY is not EBAY9
2978 2011-06-08 22:51:16 <Raccoon> or EBAY 16
2979 2011-06-08 22:51:19 <GarrettB> lfm: that's what I'm arguing :P
2980 2011-06-08 22:51:20 <edcba> yes we can't really redifine COIN value
2981 2011-06-08 22:51:25 <mikegogulski> @sipa: okay, i'm a dummy. I wasn't counting the many BTC0.01 tx fees my server was paying. that's where the lossage went :P
2982 2011-06-08 22:51:34 <Raccoon> we can really redefine coin value
2983 2011-06-08 22:51:35 <gmaxwell> lfm: sure µBTC is fine. But if you call both BTC then 0_o
2984 2011-06-08 22:51:39 <Raccoon> it's like a stock split
2985 2011-06-08 22:51:47 <GarrettB> Raccoon: but that causes confusion
2986 2011-06-08 22:51:48 <ultrafluf> an IQ-27 person is about as intelligent as an average dog, you don't let your dog do your shopping ? does your grocery store have special services so that dogs can shop?
2987 2011-06-08 22:51:51 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: good luck with that.
2988 2011-06-08 22:51:58 <ultrafluf> :>
2989 2011-06-08 22:52:01 <Raccoon> GarrettB: we are a small community of IQ100+ people
2990 2011-06-08 22:52:03 <GarrettB> when it is just as easy to change the client to have the option of showing smaller base units
2991 2011-06-08 22:52:07 <Count_Niedar> why is is so damn hard for people to agree to just use SI system
2992 2011-06-08 22:52:08 <GarrettB> Raccoon: you don't understand
2993 2011-06-08 22:52:12 <GarrettB> listen very carefully
2994 2011-06-08 22:52:13 <Raccoon> the average IQ of a bitcoin user exceeds 110
2995 2011-06-08 22:52:15 <luke-jr> GarrettB: I've never come up with a single numbering system
2996 2011-06-08 22:52:20 <Raccoon> if not 125
2997 2011-06-08 22:52:29 <luke-jr> GarrettB: and I'm only mad when people are bigots, not when they use what they want (usually decimal)
2998 2011-06-08 22:52:30 <lfm> Raccoon: you think you can but if other people use different definitions that you one of you will be in trouble.
2999 2011-06-08 22:52:44 <ultrafluf> i would love to see more of the zero's in my bitcoin thing cuz i got a payment and a a lot of the decimals got left behind :(
3000 2011-06-08 22:52:46 <Raccoon> post a message to clients
3001 2011-06-08 22:52:48 larsivi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3002 2011-06-08 22:52:52 <Raccoon> post a message on mtgox
3003 2011-06-08 22:52:53 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: Hows life in lake woebegone?
3004 2011-06-08 22:52:54 <Optimo> burning through blocks this week
3005 2011-06-08 22:52:56 <Raccoon> everyone will figure it out
3006 2011-06-08 22:53:02 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3007 2011-06-08 22:53:05 <lfm> Raccoon: no one is required to upgrade clients really
3008 2011-06-08 22:53:10 <luke-jr> Count_Niedar: I agree that decimal users should stick to SI or switch to another system
3009 2011-06-08 22:53:13 Marcel has joined
3010 2011-06-08 22:53:14 <GarrettB> Raccoon: if you change the decimal place, ie move the unit value (stock split plan), you cause problems with backward compatibility. If you don't change the unit, just let clients choose if they want to see microbtc or btc, you don't have to change anything, anywhere.
3011 2011-06-08 22:53:27 <GarrettB> Shops can add support for showing prices in microbtc if they want
3012 2011-06-08 22:53:30 <gmaxwell> GarrettB++
3013 2011-06-08 22:53:31 <ultrafluf> yes that is the option i want
3014 2011-06-08 22:53:35 <lfm> Raccoon: and there are other clients that none of us here have control over
3015 2011-06-08 22:53:37 <ultrafluf> what GarrettB is saying
3016 2011-06-08 22:53:44 <Raccoon> bah fine.
3017 2011-06-08 22:53:48 <Raccoon> if you MUST create a new unit
3018 2011-06-08 22:53:49 <ultrafluf> i don't need foot and inches in my coins :>
3019 2011-06-08 22:53:54 <luke-jr> or mBTC
3020 2011-06-08 22:53:57 <edcba> ok so it was a non debate it's just a matter of presenting information
3021 2011-06-08 22:54:02 <Raccoon> 1.00 BTC = 100 BTC/2
3022 2011-06-08 22:54:03 <mtrlt> Raccoon: people still don't understand the difference between 0.00001 and 0.000001
3023 2011-06-08 22:54:09 <luke-jr> Raccoon: ⦠wtf?
3024 2011-06-08 22:54:09 <GarrettB> Raccoon: it's not creating a new unit. It's allowing the smaller unit be the default unit in the client
3025 2011-06-08 22:54:10 <mtrlt> nothing has changed in 5 minutes
3026 2011-06-08 22:54:10 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3027 2011-06-08 22:54:13 <GarrettB> hell there can be a drop down menu
3028 2011-06-08 22:54:23 <Raccoon> 1.0000 BTC = 10000 BTC/4
3029 2011-06-08 22:54:29 <GarrettB> we're back up at 28.3 by the way
3030 2011-06-08 22:54:36 <edcba> avoid '/' symbol please :)
3031 2011-06-08 22:54:47 <lfm> mtrlt: ya english does not suffice! grin
3032 2011-06-08 22:54:48 <mtrlt> just define a microbitcoin and ge done with it :P
3033 2011-06-08 22:54:49 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: can I hire you to work for microsoft?
3034 2011-06-08 22:54:49 <luke-jr> GarrettB: Spesmilo has an option in Settings for BTC or TBC, can easily add µBTC or mBTC
3035 2011-06-08 22:54:51 <GarrettB> Raccoon: yes. But if you make a new unit, you don't need to say whether you're using the old one or the new one
3036 2011-06-08 22:54:52 <ultrafluf> that way of writing it is very confusing Raccoon most people know things like m/s etc
3037 2011-06-08 22:54:57 <Kireji> I think we should call 10**-6 of a BTC a "credit"
3038 2011-06-08 22:54:57 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: you're like a fountain of bad ideas.
3039 2011-06-08 22:54:59 <mtrlt> be
3040 2011-06-08 22:55:00 <GarrettB> luke-jr: I may do that. How is your client besides that
3041 2011-06-08 22:55:03 <Optimo> Millicoin
3042 2011-06-08 22:55:05 <ultrafluf> it actually has a divined use in units
3043 2011-06-08 22:55:08 <ultrafluf> er
3044 2011-06-08 22:55:10 <GarrettB> ie, does it deal with all the things the reference client can?
3045 2011-06-08 22:55:10 <Kireji> battlestar galactica style money
3046 2011-06-08 22:55:11 <ultrafluf> defined*
3047 2011-06-08 22:55:11 <luke-jr> GarrettB: works for me. patches welcome for additional functionality.
3048 2011-06-08 22:55:12 <lfm> ya we should all change to eseranto. it is a much better language
3049 2011-06-08 22:55:13 <Raccoon> GarrettB: making a new unit causes all sorts of marketing and trust problems.
3050 2011-06-08 22:55:16 mmoya has joined
3051 2011-06-08 22:55:17 <Optimo> MegaCoin
3052 2011-06-08 22:55:18 <edcba> Kireji: so we can issue credit cards ? :)
3053 2011-06-08 22:55:19 <Raccoon> GarrettB: people will think it's a different currency
3054 2011-06-08 22:55:24 <Kireji> 1,000,000 credits = 1 BTC
3055 2011-06-08 22:55:25 <Raccoon> GarrettB: people will not understand
3056 2011-06-08 22:55:26 <luke-jr> lfm: not Lojban?
3057 2011-06-08 22:55:29 <luke-jr> anyhow, supper time, bbl
3058 2011-06-08 22:55:34 <GarrettB> Raccoon: it's not a new unit, it's a fraction of the old unit
3059 2011-06-08 22:55:35 <mtrlt> lojban <3
3060 2011-06-08 22:55:38 <Kireji> edcba: lol, bleacth
3061 2011-06-08 22:55:38 <GarrettB> which you could still use
3062 2011-06-08 22:55:40 <luke-jr> either use µBTC or UBC :P
3063 2011-06-08 22:55:56 <Kireji> my screen does print âBTC
3064 2011-06-08 22:55:58 <Raccoon> please avoid using characters that do not appear on a 102 key keyboard
3065 2011-06-08 22:56:02 <Kireji> use "U"
3066 2011-06-08 22:56:03 <luke-jr> Kireji: then it's broken
3067 2011-06-08 22:56:08 <Kireji> yuppers
3068 2011-06-08 22:56:13 <Kireji> farking windows
3069 2011-06-08 22:56:13 <ultrafluf> i mean when you use your current currency you call things cents and something too no? those aren't different measures they just mean one hundreth :>
3070 2011-06-08 22:56:16 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: because meters vs mm causes such huge distrust! because "1grand" or "1k" vs 1000 causes such huge distrust!
3071 2011-06-08 22:56:18 <lfm> mBTC or uBTC is ok
3072 2011-06-08 22:56:25 <magnetron> looooool "we only speak ASCII"
3073 2011-06-08 22:56:25 <Optimo> yeah^
3074 2011-06-08 22:56:27 <luke-jr> actually
3075 2011-06-08 22:56:34 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|Sleep
3076 2011-06-08 22:56:37 <luke-jr> if y'all want to say uBTC = DBC, I'm ok with that too
3077 2011-06-08 22:56:38 <luke-jr> :p
3078 2011-06-08 22:56:40 <magnetron> seppos
3079 2011-06-08 22:56:49 <mtrlt> DBC? :P
3080 2011-06-08 22:56:53 <luke-jr> DBC (Decimal Bitcoin), TBC (Tonal Bitcoin), ZBC (Dozenal Bitcoin)
3081 2011-06-08 22:57:03 <gmaxwell> it would have been nice if we had a 1e-9, alas.
3082 2011-06-08 22:57:04 <magnetron> dbc = devil's bit coin
3083 2011-06-08 22:57:04 <Kireji> I read on a forum calling them "mikes" for micro-bitcoin
3084 2011-06-08 22:57:05 <ultrafluf> wtf is a tonal bitcoin?
3085 2011-06-08 22:57:08 <Raccoon> Tonal and Dozenal = lame
3086 2011-06-08 22:57:11 <Raccoon> sorry
3087 2011-06-08 22:57:13 <luke-jr> ultrafluf: ask me later :P
3088 2011-06-08 22:57:14 <edcba> instead of debating units we should create a voting system
3089 2011-06-08 22:57:15 <ultrafluf> is that the sound 1 bitcoin makes while being fed?
3090 2011-06-08 22:57:16 <Kireji> ultrafluf: a troll
3091 2011-06-08 22:57:18 <luke-jr> Raccoon: no, Decimal is lame
3092 2011-06-08 22:57:18 <mtrlt> BBC is a binary bitcoin
3093 2011-06-08 22:57:23 <vegard> you can't type µ on your keyboard?
3094 2011-06-08 22:57:25 <gmaxwell> ultrafluf: hexcoin.
3095 2011-06-08 22:57:26 <Optimo> DeciCoin
3096 2011-06-08 22:57:28 <gmaxwell> vegard: I can.
3097 2011-06-08 22:57:30 <gmaxwell> µ
3098 2011-06-08 22:57:30 <GarrettB> I only speak curses :P
3099 2011-06-08 22:57:32 anarchyx has quit ()
3100 2011-06-08 22:57:34 <magnetron> AltGr+M
3101 2011-06-08 22:57:35 <ultrafluf> ah ok
3102 2011-06-08 22:57:35 <Raccoon> yes. the decimal system IS lame.
3103 2011-06-08 22:57:37 <mtrlt> i vouch for binary because i only need to learn two symbols
3104 2011-06-08 22:57:38 <Raccoon> drop the decimal point
3105 2011-06-08 22:57:43 <lfm> ultrafluf: hehe thats an old argment, almost the same but even worse
3106 2011-06-08 22:57:43 <ultrafluf> still confusing :>
3107 2011-06-08 22:57:44 <vegard> yeah, I can too.
3108 2011-06-08 22:57:48 <phantomcircuit> anybody know who runs tradehill.com?
3109 2011-06-08 22:57:49 <luke-jr> Raccoon: you don't know what decimal means, do you? :P
3110 2011-06-08 22:57:50 <Raccoon> "bits are indivisible"
3111 2011-06-08 22:57:51 <GarrettB> Raccoon: that is not decimal
3112 2011-06-08 22:57:52 <GarrettB> lol
3113 2011-06-08 22:57:55 <Kireji> I see a big grey square [] with â
3114 2011-06-08 22:58:01 <gmaxwell> ÏηαÏ ÏοÏ
 δον·Ï ηαÏε γÏεεκ ον ÏοÏ
Ï κεÏβοαÏδ?
3115 2011-06-08 22:58:10 <luke-jr> Kireji: that means your IRC client is broken. not anyone's problem but your own.
3116 2011-06-08 22:58:13 <Raccoon> luke-jr: i was being opportunistic
3117 2011-06-08 22:58:14 <ultrafluf> i was not familiar with hex being tonal
3118 2011-06-08 22:58:20 <magnetron> hex isn't tonal
3119 2011-06-08 22:58:21 <Optimo> try another font
3120 2011-06-08 22:58:24 <ultrafluf> ok
3121 2011-06-08 22:58:25 <ultrafluf> phew
3122 2011-06-08 22:58:27 <edcba> Raccoon: decimal is lame but satoshi decided to define COIN as a number not a power of 2...
3123 2011-06-08 22:58:28 <GarrettB> luke-jr: I've yet to find a program that DOES display tonal shit correctly
3124 2011-06-08 22:58:29 <ultrafluf> i almost learned something :>
3125 2011-06-08 22:58:30 <luke-jr> ultrafluf: it's not exactly. hex is a newer system with the same base
3126 2011-06-08 22:58:32 <mtrlt> magnetron: tonal is a base-16 system
3127 2011-06-08 22:58:34 <Kireji> I'm reading through 4 different terminal systems
3128 2011-06-08 22:58:37 larsivi has joined
3129 2011-06-08 22:58:38 <magnetron> mtrlt: i'm aware
3130 2011-06-08 22:58:39 <luke-jr> GarrettB: you got a font?
3131 2011-06-08 22:58:42 <Kireji> yes, it is my issue
3132 2011-06-08 22:58:42 <mtrlt> only the symbols are different :p
3133 2011-06-08 22:58:42 <lfm> gmaxwell: gasuntheit
3134 2011-06-08 22:58:43 <ultrafluf> hex is just a base 16 thing >.>
3135 2011-06-08 22:58:45 <Raccoon> edcba: i'm fine with that.
3136 2011-06-08 22:58:47 <ultrafluf> what is tonal then?
3137 2011-06-08 22:58:47 <GarrettB> luke-jr: no, but if I need one, lol
3138 2011-06-08 22:58:52 <Raccoon> edcba: we don't need a power of 2
3139 2011-06-08 22:59:02 <GarrettB> I'm not installing one so I can read your crazy numbers
3140 2011-06-08 22:59:03 quellhorst has joined
3141 2011-06-08 22:59:05 <Raccoon> we just need an interger
3142 2011-06-08 22:59:05 <ultrafluf> base 8 ?
3143 2011-06-08 22:59:07 <luke-jr> ultrafluf: http://books.google.com/books?id=aNYGAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover
3144 2011-06-08 22:59:09 <Raccoon> integer
3145 2011-06-08 22:59:10 <TommyBoy3G> ok tu much for me
3146 2011-06-08 22:59:18 <Optimo> halfBTC
3147 2011-06-08 22:59:18 <TommyBoy3G> i'm quiting this mess
3148 2011-06-08 22:59:21 <jgarzik> Response to Adam Cohen. His post continues to draw links, for some reason. http://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2011/06/response-to-adam-cohen-re-bitcoin.html
3149 2011-06-08 22:59:23 <TommyBoy3G> do what u want
3150 2011-06-08 22:59:23 <ultrafluf> uu a book
3151 2011-06-08 22:59:27 <lfm> mtrlt: yes but people love to fight over symbols as if they were the real thing
3152 2011-06-08 22:59:39 <gmaxwell> ultrafluf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonal_System#Tonal_System_.28Hexadecimal.29
3153 2011-06-08 22:59:39 <Kireji> I think it would work better to not have after-decimal in bitcoins once the decimal is moved
3154 2011-06-08 22:59:45 <Raccoon> ooh, how about decimal columns.
3155 2011-06-08 22:59:48 <edcba> jgarzik: did you see his fu to hn ?
3156 2011-06-08 22:59:52 <Raccoon> 0.000,001 BTC
3157 2011-06-08 22:59:53 <GarrettB> jgarzik: you made it abundantly clear to CBS that bitcoin is not run by a company?
3158 2011-06-08 22:59:57 <GarrettB> because if so , they're dumb
3159 2011-06-08 22:59:59 <Kireji> 1.00 00 00 00 bitcoins?
3160 2011-06-08 22:59:59 <Raccoon> 0.001,2 BTC
3161 2011-06-08 23:00:00 <GarrettB> if not, you're dumb
3162 2011-06-08 23:00:01 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
3163 2011-06-08 23:00:03 <Optimo> they are dumb
3164 2011-06-08 23:00:11 <jgarzik> GarrettB: bitcoin isn't a company?
3165 2011-06-08 23:00:13 * jgarzik runs
3166 2011-06-08 23:00:17 <Optimo> lol
3167 2011-06-08 23:00:28 <luke-jr> GarrettB: I'm not sure the media understands that software can be made withotu companies
3168 2011-06-08 23:00:30 * Optimo adds this to his clues notebook
3169 2011-06-08 23:00:40 <Raccoon> blues clues?
3170 2011-06-08 23:00:44 <Optimo> LA Noire
3171 2011-06-08 23:00:45 <Kireji> jgarzik: saw you on cbs interview, it went well, congratz. you made several good points
3172 2011-06-08 23:00:54 <Raccoon> jgarzik: link plotz
3173 2011-06-08 23:01:04 <edcba> zimbabwe and bitcoins such a love affait :)
3174 2011-06-08 23:01:05 calebopeko has joined
3175 2011-06-08 23:01:11 <edcba> affair
3176 2011-06-08 23:01:15 <GarrettB> jgarzik: there is no company backing bitcoin
3177 2011-06-08 23:01:19 <lfm> edcba: nigeria too
3178 2011-06-08 23:01:21 <ultrafluf> i see
3179 2011-06-08 23:01:22 <ultrafluf> ty
3180 2011-06-08 23:01:24 <Raccoon> GarrettB: incorrect.
3181 2011-06-08 23:01:25 <sipa> gmaxwell: what about a 128-bit bitcoin successor that uses 1/160626866400000000000000 BTC-unit as base? :)
3182 2011-06-08 23:01:36 <Raccoon> MtGox is a company backing bitcoin
3183 2011-06-08 23:01:48 <jgarzik> *facepalm*
3184 2011-06-08 23:01:51 <Raccoon> if MtGox's domain name were stolen by the US Fed. the value of BTC would plummet
3185 2011-06-08 23:01:59 <sipa> Raccoon: that's not backing
3186 2011-06-08 23:02:04 <Raccoon> it is backing
3187 2011-06-08 23:02:12 <Raccoon> if you send MTGOX a bitcoin, they will honor it with money
3188 2011-06-08 23:02:13 <ultrafluf> i believe after reading the first 2 pages that tonal can be written off as read there it reads as a vocal equivalent of counting your knuckles :>
3189 2011-06-08 23:02:13 <lfm> well in a weak sense
3190 2011-06-08 23:02:18 <sipa> i will not argue that mtgox is currently extremely important to the bitcoin economy
3191 2011-06-08 23:02:23 <Raccoon> who else will do that
3192 2011-06-08 23:02:27 <davex__> Was that DDOS bug where a miner submits a gigantic block of free or tiny fee transactions ever fixed?
3193 2011-06-08 23:02:28 <phantomcircuit> racoon no they wont
3194 2011-06-08 23:02:31 <ultrafluf> sorry but for money lets not use different words for numbers >.>
3195 2011-06-08 23:02:32 <Raccoon> yes they will
3196 2011-06-08 23:02:33 <Kireji> Raccoon: they are not really big enough for them to "back" in the sense of dumping resources into the success of tehh system
3197 2011-06-08 23:02:34 <GarrettB> Raccoon: okay, what I mean to say, is that bitcoin was not made by a company
3198 2011-06-08 23:02:38 <lfm> Raccoon: lots of other places actually
3199 2011-06-08 23:02:38 <ultrafluf> from what you normally use
3200 2011-06-08 23:02:40 <edcba> ouch mtgox powered by google servers :(
3201 2011-06-08 23:02:43 rubenfonseca has quit (Quit: leaving)
3202 2011-06-08 23:02:43 <phantomcircuit> racoon no they dont, they are merely a middle man
3203 2011-06-08 23:02:48 <GarrettB> davex__: there's a max block size scrub
3204 2011-06-08 23:02:52 <GarrettB> lrn2 wiki
3205 2011-06-08 23:03:09 <Raccoon> phantomcircuit: perhaps, but they do the backing.
3206 2011-06-08 23:03:17 <Raccoon> as long as they have customers
3207 2011-06-08 23:03:30 <phantomcircuit> raccoon backing has a VERY specific economic meaning, please stop saying that
3208 2011-06-08 23:03:33 <GarrettB> Raccoon: they don't back it
3209 2011-06-08 23:03:37 <GarrettB> you misunderstand many terms
3210 2011-06-08 23:03:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: decimal float with a golomb coded exponent would probably be fine.
3211 2011-06-08 23:03:47 <ultrafluf> ty gmaxwell but the archaic book had more gigglevalue
3212 2011-06-08 23:04:08 <GarrettB> Raccoon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
3213 2011-06-08 23:04:09 <lfm> Raccoon: there are lots of other pplaces you can change btc to local currencies. just mtgox is the biggest
3214 2011-06-08 23:04:10 <davex__> GarrettB, don't really know how it's organized
3215 2011-06-08 23:04:21 <Raccoon> lfm: there really aren't.
3216 2011-06-08 23:04:23 <GarrettB> davex__: yeah, the wiki is missing stuff. My bad
3217 2011-06-08 23:04:26 <GarrettB> still, it's easily searchable
3218 2011-06-08 23:04:30 <Raccoon> lfm: otherwise people would be using them
3219 2011-06-08 23:04:36 <davex__> GarrettB, right... and stuff never gets out dated?
3220 2011-06-08 23:04:40 <Raccoon> instead of demanding paypal
3221 2011-06-08 23:04:41 <sipa> gmaxwell: that means either rounding errors or possible arbitrary-sized numbers
3222 2011-06-08 23:04:44 <lfm> Raccoon: well you havnt found them but they do exist
3223 2011-06-08 23:04:51 <phantomcircuit> raccoon britcoin bitomat come to mind
3224 2011-06-08 23:04:58 <ultrafluf> not that i am opposed to base16 computation, but if you want people to use something it's easier to use base10 numbers
3225 2011-06-08 23:05:08 <ultrafluf> writing and speaking
3226 2011-06-08 23:05:13 <GarrettB> davex__: ?
3227 2011-06-08 23:05:22 <sipa> gmaxwell: using 160626866400000000000000 as factor would be divisibility by all number from 2 tot 27, 32, and many powers of 10
3228 2011-06-08 23:05:29 <Optimo> what if we just redner a drawing of physical coins stacked up
3229 2011-06-08 23:05:38 <sipa> gmaxwell: and it makes the largest bitcoin amount fit nicely in 128 bits
3230 2011-06-08 23:05:42 <gmaxwell> sipa: people are used to dec rounding though.
3231 2011-06-08 23:05:49 <sipa> true
3232 2011-06-08 23:05:55 <Raccoon> GarrettB: My name is Raccoon Montoya, you killed my troll, prepare to die.
3233 2011-06-08 23:05:58 <gmaxwell> sipa: also, 2-27 is not good enough, you need to support many 2s and 3s
3234 2011-06-08 23:06:10 <sipa> true
3235 2011-06-08 23:06:22 <lfm> ya just print a stick figure for each 0.00000001 BTC
3236 2011-06-08 23:06:30 <ultrafluf> hahaha awesome
3237 2011-06-08 23:06:35 <Optimo> yes..
3238 2011-06-08 23:06:46 <Raccoon> perhaps, after people have been using 0.000,001 BTC or long enough, they will eventually abbreviate it with 1 BTC.
3239 2011-06-08 23:06:47 <ultrafluf> i would be fine with if it even just printed the internal 8 decimal value as an integer >.>
3240 2011-06-08 23:06:58 <lfm> Raccoon: or not
3241 2011-06-08 23:07:01 <gmaxwell> Raccoon: thats possible, even likely.
3242 2011-06-08 23:07:14 anarchyx has joined
3243 2011-06-08 23:07:31 <ultrafluf> i would like to use the full range of bitcoin decimal capabilities in my client i was looking for making it display that in the gui just yesterday but it only does it in the json i think
3244 2011-06-08 23:07:37 <Raccoon> because honestly, who is really charging a million bucks for a tshirt
3245 2011-06-08 23:07:45 <Raccoon> it would just make sense after a while
3246 2011-06-08 23:07:53 <Optimo> if a bytecoin is 8 bitcoins...
3247 2011-06-08 23:08:07 <lfm> ultrafluf: if someone sends you 0.00001BTC it will display it
3248 2011-06-08 23:08:08 <Optimo> that would wedge you into octal
3249 2011-06-08 23:08:13 <GarrettB> Raccoon: stop being dumb
3250 2011-06-08 23:08:14 <Raccoon> Optimo: LONG coin is LONG
3251 2011-06-08 23:08:25 <ultrafluf> oh
3252 2011-06-08 23:08:26 <GarrettB> Raccoon: I doubt it
3253 2011-06-08 23:08:28 <ultrafluf> then they must not have
3254 2011-06-08 23:08:35 <GarrettB> because .00000001 and 1 are very different
3255 2011-06-08 23:08:47 <ultrafluf> cuz i had send something with .xxxx and it only shows .xx
3256 2011-06-08 23:08:49 <Raccoon> GarrettB: gmaxwell is my new friend. you may stop addressing me anymore.
3257 2011-06-08 23:08:50 johnnympereira5 has joined
3258 2011-06-08 23:08:58 <ultrafluf> :(
3259 2011-06-08 23:09:09 <GarrettB> if I had .00000001 pounds of gold I would not abbreviate it as 1 lb Au
3260 2011-06-08 23:09:13 <GarrettB> because they are very different
3261 2011-06-08 23:09:15 <lfm> ultrafluf: what version of bitcoin was that?
3262 2011-06-08 23:09:20 <phantomcircuit> i know that i have been guilty of this myself
3263 2011-06-08 23:09:22 <ultrafluf> hum
3264 2011-06-08 23:09:24 <ultrafluf> .21
3265 2011-06-08 23:09:30 <Optimo> 1 bit of a bitcoin
3266 2011-06-08 23:09:34 <phantomcircuit> but possibly non dev chat should be moved to #bitcoin
3267 2011-06-08 23:09:35 <ultrafluf> i saw .22 was available but it wasn't on the website
3268 2011-06-08 23:09:39 <ultrafluf> o
3269 2011-06-08 23:09:45 <jrmithdobbs> ultrafluf: upstream client has displayed all decimal places since 3.21
3270 2011-06-08 23:09:46 <ultrafluf> i haven't even seen that we are in -dev :>
3271 2011-06-08 23:09:52 <ultrafluf> upstream
3272 2011-06-08 23:09:54 <ultrafluf> hmmm
3273 2011-06-08 23:10:02 <jrmithdobbs> ultrafluf: aka, official
3274 2011-06-08 23:10:02 <ultrafluf> is that the one i downloaded from the frontpage?
3275 2011-06-08 23:10:06 <ultrafluf> odd
3276 2011-06-08 23:10:22 <lfm> ultrafluf: Y it is possible it didnt actually accept yopur entered amount as entered. It should be fixed in 0.3.22 (i hope)
3277 2011-06-08 23:10:37 <ultrafluf> hmm
3278 2011-06-08 23:10:48 Beremat has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3279 2011-06-08 23:10:49 <ultrafluf> well a lot of .0000xxxxx got left behind that is what i know for sure
3280 2011-06-08 23:11:02 <phantomcircuit> ultrafluf, ironically you're probably the only person here with a remotely -dev question
3281 2011-06-08 23:11:04 <ultrafluf> but that might be something with the website
3282 2011-06-08 23:11:38 <ultrafluf> i have my moments
3283 2011-06-08 23:11:45 <ultrafluf> i shall take it up with the website person
3284 2011-06-08 23:11:50 <Raccoon> GarrettB: your example uses an imperical weight unit. my example uses an arbitrary 'coin' name.
3285 2011-06-08 23:11:56 <Raccoon> gold coins shrink all the time
3286 2011-06-08 23:11:58 <lfm> ultrafluf: ya the handling of fractions has been inconsistant in the past. I was hoping it had improved with current versions but your experience seems to indicate there is still work to be done
3287 2011-06-08 23:12:01 <Optimo> I;m interested in Bitcoinj - where can I read more?
3288 2011-06-08 23:12:06 <GarrettB> Raccoon: an arbitrary coin name that everyone uses
3289 2011-06-08 23:12:16 <Raccoon> i'm sure egyptians and romans did the same all the time
3290 2011-06-08 23:12:21 <Raccoon> "that will cost you 100 gold"
3291 2011-06-08 23:12:24 <GarrettB> there's no reason to try and redefine it when you can easily make another unit
3292 2011-06-08 23:12:26 <GarrettB> or rather, rebase it
3293 2011-06-08 23:12:26 <Raccoon> "that will cost you 1 gold"
3294 2011-06-08 23:12:31 <Optimo> remember they had pieces-of-eight
3295 2011-06-08 23:12:33 <Optimo> and bits
3296 2011-06-08 23:12:37 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3297 2011-06-08 23:12:57 <GarrettB> if you make a new unit, you can't easily convert
3298 2011-06-08 23:12:59 <Raccoon> GarrettB: nobody wants to make new units
3299 2011-06-08 23:13:06 <GarrettB> Raccoon: yes, you do
3300 2011-06-08 23:13:08 <ultrafluf> lfm i am not sure either, but the website i got them from seems to default to 2 decimals and i added a few to see what happened and well 4 decimals disappeared but in the transaction history only 2 are listed to have been sent
3301 2011-06-08 23:13:09 <Raccoon> no.
3302 2011-06-08 23:13:14 <lfm> ya even today some people refer to two bits for I beleive 25 cents
3303 2011-06-08 23:13:16 <GarrettB> you want to redefine 1 BTC as .00000whatever BTC
3304 2011-06-08 23:13:19 <GarrettB> yes
3305 2011-06-08 23:13:22 <GarrettB> that is what you were arguing
3306 2011-06-08 23:13:25 <Raccoon> lfm: that is right.
3307 2011-06-08 23:13:27 <GarrettB> for the past while
3308 2011-06-08 23:13:36 <Raccoon> though not too many people...
3309 2011-06-08 23:13:44 <Optimo> lfm, hence I suggest like bits of bitcoins
3310 2011-06-08 23:13:54 <diki> pool rate works, now to work on round time...this will be tough
3311 2011-06-08 23:14:01 <Optimo> but if we have bitcents it's fine
3312 2011-06-08 23:14:06 <Raccoon> i'm saying
3313 2011-06-08 23:14:09 <Optimo> why does nobody like Bitcents?
3314 2011-06-08 23:14:16 <lfm> Raccoon: bit2coins?
3315 2011-06-08 23:14:18 <sipa> jgarzik: nice blog post, concise and honest :)
3316 2011-06-08 23:14:24 <ultrafluf> i like bitcents but we need smaller units
3317 2011-06-08 23:14:25 <Raccoon> after we see 0.000,001 BTC pricing on newegg long enough
3318 2011-06-08 23:14:29 MRD_ has left ("Leaving")
3319 2011-06-08 23:14:31 <Raccoon> they may simply "drop all the excessive zeros"
3320 2011-06-08 23:14:36 <GarrettB> optimo I like microbitcoins, because then you still have 2 decimal places
3321 2011-06-08 23:14:38 <Raccoon> that is not far fetched
3322 2011-06-08 23:14:39 <Optimo> ultrafluf, 0.1 bitcents
3323 2011-06-08 23:14:42 <GarrettB> Raccoon: yes it is
3324 2011-06-08 23:14:45 <Raccoon> no, it is not
3325 2011-06-08 23:14:50 <Raccoon> it's a matter of publishing
3326 2011-06-08 23:14:56 <GarrettB> you're an idiot and can't understand why this would be problematic
3327 2011-06-08 23:14:57 <Raccoon> if everyone uses that scale
3328 2011-06-08 23:14:59 <Optimo> and I like BitMill-i
3329 2011-06-08 23:15:00 <lfm> Raccoon: the thing is the zeros are not really excessive and wont be for a long time, maybe never
3330 2011-06-08 23:15:02 <GarrettB> I'm going to go play dante's inferno
3331 2011-06-08 23:15:03 <ultrafluf> true but that puts you maybe at 6 before the zero's become a drag
3332 2011-06-08 23:15:15 <Raccoon> lfm, perhaps sooner than we think.
3333 2011-06-08 23:15:20 <Optimo> mBTC always seemed to make sense to me
3334 2011-06-08 23:15:27 <mtrlt> µBTC is the best.
3335 2011-06-08 23:15:32 <iz> Raccoon: what happens when you have to put all te 0s on the OTHER side of the number?
3336 2011-06-08 23:15:33 <Raccoon> it's already reasonable to trade things in 0.001 BTC today.
3337 2011-06-08 23:15:42 <Raccoon> you can buy a gumball or 0.001
3338 2011-06-08 23:15:44 <Raccoon> *for
3339 2011-06-08 23:15:47 <iz> like 10000 microBTC
3340 2011-06-08 23:15:48 weinerk has left ("Killed buffer")
3341 2011-06-08 23:15:50 <mtrlt> Raccoon: 3 cents?
3342 2011-06-08 23:15:54 <mtrlt> USD-cents
3343 2011-06-08 23:15:59 <Raccoon> sure, why not
3344 2011-06-08 23:16:08 <lfm> Raccoon: you mean like 3 US cents worth? what are you paying that for?
3345 2011-06-08 23:16:10 <mtrlt> mmyea
3346 2011-06-08 23:16:45 <Raccoon> and that's only after a couple months of serious trading
3347 2011-06-08 23:16:47 alystair has joined
3348 2011-06-08 23:16:52 <Raccoon> imagine after a couple years
3349 2011-06-08 23:17:02 <lfm> if someone gave me a gift of 3 pennies Id prolly throw it away!
3350 2011-06-08 23:17:11 <Raccoon> if we were to stretch bitcoin's current economy to fit the world's current economy
3351 2011-06-08 23:17:19 <mtrlt> lol
3352 2011-06-08 23:17:21 <mtrlt> fat chance :P
3353 2011-06-08 23:17:23 <Raccoon> how many decimal places would it take
3354 2011-06-08 23:17:25 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
3355 2011-06-08 23:17:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129447 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1592 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 0 hours, 14 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 697766.34431550
3356 2011-06-08 23:17:29 <mtrlt> one bitcoin would be probably like $1M
3357 2011-06-08 23:17:33 <mtrlt> at least
3358 2011-06-08 23:17:36 <Raccoon> so
3359 2011-06-08 23:17:40 <JFK911> cool im a billionaire
3360 2011-06-08 23:17:41 <Optimo> uBTC then
3361 2011-06-08 23:17:42 <lfm> Raccoon: in a couple years it could just as easily be $1 buys you a million BTC
3362 2011-06-08 23:17:43 <Raccoon> 0.000,001
3363 2011-06-08 23:17:45 <Raccoon> like i said
3364 2011-06-08 23:17:46 <mtrlt> so one µBTC would be one dollar
3365 2011-06-08 23:17:51 <gjs278> JFK911 how much do you have
3366 2011-06-08 23:18:03 <Optimo> let the people decide!
3367 2011-06-08 23:18:04 <iz> if we were to make pigs fly some how.. then it all makes sense.. can't you see..
3368 2011-06-08 23:18:26 <lfm> iz: oh! revelation!
3369 2011-06-08 23:18:39 Beremat has joined
3370 2011-06-08 23:18:44 <Raccoon> iz: swine flu
3371 2011-06-08 23:18:48 <iz> haha
3372 2011-06-08 23:18:59 calebopeko has quit (Quit: leaving)
3373 2011-06-08 23:19:04 <iz> the past tense of pigs flying
3374 2011-06-08 23:19:04 <[Tycho]> ;;seen MagicalTux
3375 2011-06-08 23:19:05 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 22 hours, 37 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> BlueMatt: on a Qt client, not C#
3376 2011-06-08 23:19:34 gavinandresen has joined
3377 2011-06-08 23:19:40 <gjs278> GAVIN WELCOME BACK BRO
3378 2011-06-08 23:19:52 <gavinandresen> howdy
3379 2011-06-08 23:19:52 <gavinandresen> ]
3380 2011-06-08 23:19:58 <lfm> Raccoon: so if you want to call 0.00001BTC a raccoon feel free, just you wont have many people follow you
3381 2011-06-08 23:20:07 <Raccoon> btw.
3382 2011-06-08 23:20:12 <gjs278> I'll call it an lfm instead
3383 2011-06-08 23:20:13 <Raccoon> just like stock splits
3384 2011-06-08 23:20:14 <edcba> gavinandresen: just in time to debate btc units ! :)
3385 2011-06-08 23:20:22 <lizthegrey> Can I solicit (preferably serious) comments on http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=13512.0 please?
3386 2011-06-08 23:20:24 <Raccoon> people stop investing after an index reaches too high of a value
3387 2011-06-08 23:20:29 <gavinandresen> Lets just call them all "Bruce", it'll be easier that way.
3388 2011-06-08 23:20:30 <iz> i will start calling them racoons, btw if you do
3389 2011-06-08 23:20:38 <Raccoon> you need to stock split to make the investment feel more affordable
3390 2011-06-08 23:20:54 <edcba> gavinandresen: you mean 1 Bruce = 21M BTC ?
3391 2011-06-08 23:20:56 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3392 2011-06-08 23:21:05 Marcel has joined
3393 2011-06-08 23:21:17 <iz> how many pounds per racoon in the UK market?
3394 2011-06-08 23:21:21 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3395 2011-06-08 23:21:43 <lfm> iz lb or pound sterling?
3396 2011-06-08 23:21:47 dominatro has joined
3397 2011-06-08 23:21:52 <Raccoon> gavin needs to work on pidgin moar
3398 2011-06-08 23:21:56 <Raccoon> he's been slacking
3399 2011-06-08 23:22:09 <sipa> pidgin?
3400 2011-06-08 23:22:11 <lfm> I think a standard raccoon is about 5 lb isnt it?
3401 2011-06-08 23:22:12 <iz> lfm: pound sterling but actual racoon :b
3402 2011-06-08 23:22:23 Marcel has joined
3403 2011-06-08 23:22:25 <Raccoon> lfm: some raccoon are inflated to 30 LB
3404 2011-06-08 23:22:32 <edcba> Raccoon: he was busy selling his BTC :)
3405 2011-06-08 23:22:36 Archevety has joined
3406 2011-06-08 23:22:39 Marcel has left (HSD!~Marcel|HS@router2.hsdev.com|)
3407 2011-06-08 23:22:51 Archevety has left ()
3408 2011-06-08 23:23:33 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3409 2011-06-08 23:24:56 <Taveren93HGK> ;;bc,gen 100000
3410 2011-06-08 23:24:57 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 100000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 0.177282770748 BTC per day and 0.00738678211449 BTC per hour.
3411 2011-06-08 23:25:42 AStove has quit ()
3412 2011-06-08 23:25:42 <lfm> gribble is silly too
3413 2011-06-08 23:25:46 <diki> suggest logics on how to count round time
3414 2011-06-08 23:26:11 <lfm> decimal clocks?
3415 2011-06-08 23:26:31 <diki> there are a number of ways...i just dont know
3416 2011-06-08 23:26:32 eth00 has joined
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3418 2011-06-08 23:26:46 <diki> if i should truncate the table when we find a block and keep the block data only
3419 2011-06-08 23:26:56 <diki> thus allowing me to count the number of rows or number of ids
3420 2011-06-08 23:27:02 <lfm> there really should be 100 seconds in a minute and 100 minutes in an hour and 10 hours in a day dont you think?
3421 2011-06-08 23:27:34 eternal1 has joined
3422 2011-06-08 23:27:37 <diki> or count the time passed between the last found block
3423 2011-06-08 23:27:52 <diki> the second method has a flaw in it
3424 2011-06-08 23:28:22 Moonies has joined
3425 2011-06-08 23:28:31 <diki> the first one is more sound proof, but truncating a table with a million rows could take a while
3426 2011-06-08 23:28:57 d4de has joined
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3428 2011-06-08 23:28:57 d4de has joined
3429 2011-06-08 23:29:03 <lfm> and there really should be a nice round 100 days in a season, make the year a nice round 400 days
3430 2011-06-08 23:29:19 <diki> basically, there are a few ways, i just need the more reliable way
3431 2011-06-08 23:29:23 <diki> that has less flaws
3432 2011-06-08 23:29:26 eternal11 has joined
3433 2011-06-08 23:29:28 oxygenerator has joined
3434 2011-06-08 23:29:48 eternal12 has joined
3435 2011-06-08 23:30:34 hydrogenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3436 2011-06-08 23:30:46 <lfm> a 10 day week would also be nice except then we wouldnt have as many weekends
3437 2011-06-08 23:31:50 eternal1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3438 2011-06-08 23:32:47 glicth-mod has joined
3439 2011-06-08 23:33:09 <lfm> or if we went tonal we would have 64 seconds to a minute and 64 minutes to an hour then I spoze 16 hours to the day
3440 2011-06-08 23:34:05 eternal11 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3441 2011-06-08 23:34:23 <mtrlt> 16 hours, 16 minutes, 16 seconds and 16 somethings somewhere in there :p
3442 2011-06-08 23:34:52 <lfm> 16 toenails (since we cant call em tonals)
3443 2011-06-08 23:35:03 GOP-USA_dotcom has joined
3444 2011-06-08 23:35:23 fabianhjr has joined
3445 2011-06-08 23:35:49 aficiomaquinas has joined
3446 2011-06-08 23:36:04 eternal12 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3447 2011-06-08 23:36:26 GOP-USA_dotcom has quit (Quit: www.FaceFox.com)
3448 2011-06-08 23:36:56 <lfm> so tonal the months should all be 32 days I guess and 8 months or just go for 16 and 16 again?
3449 2011-06-08 23:37:17 <mtrlt> 16 and 16, of course :)
3450 2011-06-08 23:37:37 <mtrlt> then a year would be 1000000 seconds or something :P
3451 2011-06-08 23:37:45 <mtrlt> 0x1000000
3452 2011-06-08 23:37:50 <lfm> ok, its decided, the the year now has 256 days
3453 2011-06-08 23:37:55 <mtrlt> yep
3454 2011-06-08 23:37:57 <iz> lfm: why not have 100 hours in a day also instead of just 10?
3455 2011-06-08 23:38:04 <mtrlt> we must make the earth's rotation adhere to that
3456 2011-06-08 23:38:07 <fabianhjr> Has anyone seen MagicalTux?
3457 2011-06-08 23:38:16 kermit has joined
3458 2011-06-08 23:38:34 <lfm> mtrlt: ya, start an earth day regularization project at once
3459 2011-06-08 23:38:35 <iz> or 64
3460 2011-06-08 23:38:58 <iz> i mean.. that's always bothered me about the conversion from seconds to minutes to hours to days
3461 2011-06-08 23:39:10 <Sedra> anyone know if theres a decent tool like HWiNFO32 to monitor shader temps of my cards in linix (ubuntu)? Wine doesnt work :/
3462 2011-06-08 23:39:18 <lfm> let alone wekks and months to years
3463 2011-06-08 23:39:23 <iz> haha yeah
3464 2011-06-08 23:39:28 <iz> 64 for all of those
3465 2011-06-08 23:39:45 GOP-USA_dotcom has joined
3466 2011-06-08 23:39:50 <iz> hallmark and the greeting card companies will love this!
3467 2011-06-08 23:40:30 <lfm> ya theyd like a 256 day year, much more frequent brithdays and xmas and mothers day et all
3468 2011-06-08 23:41:04 caedes has joined
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3470 2011-06-08 23:41:05 caedes has joined
3471 2011-06-08 23:41:21 Worms_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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3475 2011-06-08 23:44:53 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3476 2011-06-08 23:44:59 <lfm> Sedra: aticonfig utility will report your GPU temp I think
3477 2011-06-08 23:45:10 <gjs278> aticonfig --odgt
3478 2011-06-08 23:45:24 <Sedra> yeah it does, but only core temp, I need to display more like I can do in Windows
3479 2011-06-08 23:45:32 <gjs278> you can't get the uhh ram stuff
3480 2011-06-08 23:45:34 <Sedra> sensors only reports my cpu
3481 2011-06-08 23:45:35 <gjs278> linux won't report it
3482 2011-06-08 23:45:36 <diki> i've been thinking and thinking and thought of no valid solution
3483 2011-06-08 23:45:43 <gjs278> sensors can't report gpu temp
3484 2011-06-08 23:45:43 <luke-jr> lfm: tonal has 10 (16 deci) Tims per day, 10 Timtons per Tim, and 100 Timmills per Timton
3485 2011-06-08 23:46:08 <gjs278> Sedra you're kind of out of luck with any of the advanced temps, it can only report gpu
3486 2011-06-08 23:46:15 <luke-jr> lfm: Tonal months are generally 17 days each
3487 2011-06-08 23:46:27 <lfm> oh, how many days/year?
3488 2011-06-08 23:46:35 WakiMiko has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3489 2011-06-08 23:46:37 <Sedra> yeah, kinda sucks gjs278, would love to see something like this in linux http://i.imgur.com/C0Hfp.png
3490 2011-06-08 23:46:52 <luke-jr> lfm: days/year is fixed by the Sun's wobble
3491 2011-06-08 23:47:00 <gjs278> you can get all of that except the temps
3492 2011-06-08 23:47:14 <lfm> we can fix that if you like. start a project now?
3493 2011-06-08 23:47:17 <Sedra> I only want shader temps
3494 2011-06-08 23:47:25 <luke-jr> lfm: sounds dangerous
3495 2011-06-08 23:47:39 <lfm> just a minor tweak
3496 2011-06-08 23:47:49 <luke-jr> lfm: how exactly do you propose to change the Sun's wobble?
3497 2011-06-08 23:47:55 <luke-jr> the Sun is freaking huge
3498 2011-06-08 23:48:01 <lfm> big rockets
3499 2011-06-08 23:48:08 <luke-jr> rockets can't touch the Sun
3500 2011-06-08 23:48:11 fabianhjr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3501 2011-06-08 23:48:20 <lfm> luke we can change the rotation speed of the earth easier maybe
3502 2011-06-08 23:49:04 fabianhjr has joined
3503 2011-06-08 23:49:11 fabianhjr has quit (Client Quit)
3504 2011-06-08 23:49:17 <luke-jr> lfm: the Earth is immobile, you can't rotate it
3505 2011-06-08 23:49:25 Clark_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3506 2011-06-08 23:49:52 <lfm> luke-jr oh I forgot, it is flat and sitting on the back of a big turtle
3507 2011-06-08 23:50:24 <Sedra> luke-jr what about natural earthquakes that shift the Earth's axis?
3508 2011-06-08 23:50:24 <luke-jr> lfm: what's you're some kind of flat-earther heliocentrist turtle worshipper?
3509 2011-06-08 23:50:34 WakiMiko has joined
3510 2011-06-08 23:50:35 <dominatro> i just got 2 of 4 6990s and am trying to mine on all 4 gpus per computer on windows xp, now im getting 350MH/s on 3 cores at about 82C
3511 2011-06-08 23:51:00 <dominatro> i heard dongles are good but what are the options to active that 4rth gpu?
3512 2011-06-08 23:51:02 <lfm> luke you said the earth cant rotate, isnt that the logical conclusion?
3513 2011-06-08 23:51:02 <luke-jr> Sedra: I'm trolling a troll. :p
3514 2011-06-08 23:51:08 <luke-jr> lfm: no
3515 2011-06-08 23:51:14 <gjs278> trolling a troll is impossible
3516 2011-06-08 23:51:19 <luke-jr> gjs278: no it isn't
3517 2011-06-08 23:51:26 <gjs278> I just trolled you
3518 2011-06-08 23:51:36 <luke-jr> >_<
3519 2011-06-08 23:51:57 <dominatro> is this the right channel to get help on rigs?
3520 2011-06-08 23:52:00 <luke-jr> no
3521 2011-06-08 23:52:05 <lfm> rigs?
3522 2011-06-08 23:52:08 <luke-jr> try #bitcoin-mining and/or #eligius
3523 2011-06-08 23:52:11 <gjs278> BIG MOTHER TRUCKERS
3524 2011-06-08 23:52:34 <lfm> ah! ya try #trucking
3525 2011-06-08 23:52:36 <dominatro> thanks
3526 2011-06-08 23:52:39 vokoda` has joined
3527 2011-06-08 23:53:16 dominatro has left ()
3528 2011-06-08 23:53:22 <tcatm> http://eu1.bitcoincharts.com/map/ much improved performance (and increased client-side cpu usage!)
3529 2011-06-08 23:53:32 trentzb has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3530 2011-06-08 23:54:09 Matt_von_Mises has joined
3531 2011-06-08 23:54:09 <lfm> luke-jr I dont suppose you'd let us change the number of days in the week either
3532 2011-06-08 23:56:00 citiz3n has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3533 2011-06-08 23:56:03 vokoda has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3534 2011-06-08 23:56:06 <Matt_von_Mises> Hello. I don't understand the bitcoin source code at all. Wont bother trying to understand it. There is a funny thing about it⦠Where is the main function in main.cpp?
3535 2011-06-08 23:56:49 johnnympereira5 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3536 2011-06-08 23:57:27 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: um why do you think the main function must be in main.cpp?
3537 2011-06-08 23:57:28 Sylph has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3538 2011-06-08 23:57:34 <pnicholson> is there a way to download the blockchain on the mac without waiting on the client rto get it all?
3539 2011-06-08 23:57:45 <Matt_von_Mises> Because it's main.cpp
3540 2011-06-08 23:58:11 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3541 2011-06-08 23:58:15 <pnicholson> I have it on my laptop and want to run a client on my imac but its taking forever to get the whole chain
3542 2011-06-08 23:58:30 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: ya well I guess you just need to expand your mind, ir just ignore the source, you're right it is silly
3543 2011-06-08 23:58:44 <lianj> Matt_von_Mises: grep helps
3544 2011-06-08 23:59:19 <lfm> pnicholson: use -addnode to add your other machine to download it faster (worked for me)
3545 2011-06-08 23:59:36 <Matt_von_Mises> It doesn't help that it's in C++ either. I no good with C++, I hate it.
3546 2011-06-08 23:59:50 <pnicholson> lfm: how does -addnode work?