1 2011-06-09 00:00:09 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: there is a java system developing you might prefer
   2 2011-06-09 00:00:14 <Matt_von_Mises> How does the compiler find the main function?
   3 2011-06-09 00:00:26 <Matt_von_Mises> I'd prefer if there was a C implementation. If there?
   4 2011-06-09 00:00:31 <lfm> pnicholson: its a command line switch, not sure how youd do that on a mac
   5 2011-06-09 00:00:32 <Matt_von_Mises> If -> is
   6 2011-06-09 00:00:33 <lianj> Matt_von_Mises: yeah, bitcoinj has tests too. look at them
   7 2011-06-09 00:01:05 <Matt_von_Mises> I've never done java. I've yet to look into it. I will when I start looking into Android.
   8 2011-06-09 00:01:08 <lfm> pnicholson: so add bitcoin -addnode=192.168.0.2 or whatever
   9 2011-06-09 00:01:23 <lianj> but its not complete yet :(
  10 2011-06-09 00:01:36 <lianj> Matt_von_Mises: java is easy to read/port
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  12 2011-06-09 00:02:45 <Matt_von_Mises> I'm sure java is easy. I was thinking about making an iphone app but then I remembered the US laws against encryption. I'm asking some others about US export law or whatever it is, now.
  13 2011-06-09 00:02:56 <Matt_von_Mises> iOS uses Objective-C
  14 2011-06-09 00:03:04 <lianj> Matt_von_Mises: those are gone
  15 2011-06-09 00:03:17 <Matt_von_Mises> Can use Objective-C++ I believe but I've never tried
  16 2011-06-09 00:03:20 <Matt_von_Mises> THose are gone?
  17 2011-06-09 00:03:31 <lianj> iirc
  18 2011-06-09 00:03:52 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: bitcoin isnt encrypted. it is just using cryptographic hash and signature functions. in fact you can easily read oll the data, its not secret
  19 2011-06-09 00:04:50 <Matt_von_Mises> I thought it used public key type encryption to secure transactions.
  20 2011-06-09 00:05:02 <Matt_von_Mises> And these hashes aren't including in this law then?
  21 2011-06-09 00:05:11 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
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  23 2011-06-09 00:05:15 <sipa> it's public key cryptography
  24 2011-06-09 00:05:15 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: ya but there is no encryption. just private key signatures
  25 2011-06-09 00:05:18 <sipa> it does signatures
  26 2011-06-09 00:05:23 <sipa> but no encryption
  27 2011-06-09 00:05:33 <sipa> that's a separate application of it
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  29 2011-06-09 00:05:56 <lfm> and without encryption I dont think the US laws worry about it
  30 2011-06-09 00:05:58 <sipa> and the compiler doesn't know or even care what or where the main function is in a C program, it's just a function
  31 2011-06-09 00:06:03 <Matt_von_Mises> But the data that passes the network, that is not encrypted?
  32 2011-06-09 00:06:07 <sipa> no
  33 2011-06-09 00:06:13 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: nope
  34 2011-06-09 00:06:15 <sipa> it's public anyway
  35 2011-06-09 00:06:16 <Matt_von_Mises> People can hijack the data along the network?
  36 2011-06-09 00:06:28 <sipa> hijack?
  37 2011-06-09 00:06:36 <Matt_von_Mises> Steal
  38 2011-06-09 00:06:43 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: not really, if they fritz with it it wont work any more
  39 2011-06-09 00:06:57 <lfm> and anyone is free to read it
  40 2011-06-09 00:07:20 <Matt_von_Mises> I suppose the middle person can't actually steal the bitcoins of-course because they'd need that wallet information.
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  42 2011-06-09 00:07:37 <sipa> Matt_von_Mises: bitcoins don't exist, technically
  43 2011-06-09 00:07:46 <sipa> there are transaction outputs that can be used
  44 2011-06-09 00:07:51 <sipa> but there is nothing to steal
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  46 2011-06-09 00:08:04 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: right, you need to keep your wallet and its private keys private but its not encrypted in the standard clients
  47 2011-06-09 00:08:22 <sipa> not yet
  48 2011-06-09 00:08:22 <Matt_von_Mises> So, the hashes are cryptography technology but not considered encryption but encryption is the actual password protection of data, right?
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  50 2011-06-09 00:08:33 <Matt_von_Mises> And the hashes are not effected by this law?
  51 2011-06-09 00:08:52 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: so far as I understand, no, but I am not a lawyer
  52 2011-06-09 00:09:30 <Matt_von_Mises> but encryption -> because encryption
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  54 2011-06-09 00:09:48 <lianj> hm wp says the export law still applies. EU ftw
  55 2011-06-09 00:09:49 <Matt_von_Mises> I beleive I'm allowed to use Apples APIs if I ever wanted to secure a wallet.
  56 2011-06-09 00:09:51 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: um is that a question?
  57 2011-06-09 00:10:13 <sipa> in a next version of the client, wallets will be encrypted using a password
  58 2011-06-09 00:10:15 gasteve has quit (Quit: gasteve)
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  60 2011-06-09 00:10:23 <Matt_von_Mises> So, the hashes are cryptography technology but not considered encryption because encryption is the actual password protection of data, right? <- THat was the question.
  61 2011-06-09 00:10:34 Cusipzzz has joined
  62 2011-06-09 00:10:36 <Matt_von_Mises> Which you answered
  63 2011-06-09 00:11:27 <Matt_von_Mises> I could do that easy if I made an iOS app I presume? Just encrypt the data and decrypt when needed..
  64 2011-06-09 00:11:29 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: well I guess you would need to consult a real lawyer soon but that is my understanding, but then again, I am not even in the USA so ...
  65 2011-06-09 00:12:01 <lfm> ios? you're on your own there
  66 2011-06-09 00:12:02 <Kireji> Matt_von_Mises: there is no encryption, just keypairs and hashes
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  72 2011-06-09 00:13:23 <Matt_von_Mises> Well I can make a front end for an iOS app, easy. I just need to understand what bitcoin uses.
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  75 2011-06-09 00:13:48 <lfm> yup its all easy, you just need to understand it
  76 2011-06-09 00:13:56 <Matt_von_Mises> I would also need to seperate the UI from the bitcoin back-end so I can replace it with my own app.
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  78 2011-06-09 00:14:07 <sipa> Matt_von_Mises: that's no easy task
  79 2011-06-09 00:14:17 <Matt_von_Mises> Im hoping I will never need to understand it. Just use the back-end as a library.
  80 2011-06-09 00:14:21 <Matt_von_Mises> Not easy? :(
  81 2011-06-09 00:14:30 <Matt_von_Mises> I noticed when I couldn't even find the main function.
  82 2011-06-09 00:14:33 <lfm> sipa: isnt he talking about the json interface?
  83 2011-06-09 00:14:38 <sipa> it's in init.cpp
  84 2011-06-09 00:14:54 <sipa> Matt_von_Mises: if you want to run bitcoin on the iphone, i doubt you'll be able to use the rpc interface
  85 2011-06-09 00:15:06 [Tycho] has joined
  86 2011-06-09 00:15:13 <Matt_von_Mises> How does the compiler know it is there? (I'm used to C using programs that do the compiler setup for me)
  87 2011-06-09 00:15:22 <sipa> the compiler doesn't
  88 2011-06-09 00:15:27 <sipa> and doesn't care
  89 2011-06-09 00:15:34 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: main is really only special to the linker
  90 2011-06-09 00:15:57 <sipa> not even that, it's referenced by the standard library's startup code
  91 2011-06-09 00:16:05 <sipa> which the linker links to your main
  92 2011-06-09 00:16:06 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: C is the same as C++ in the way main() works
  93 2011-06-09 00:16:09 <sipa> wherever it is
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  95 2011-06-09 00:16:41 <Matt_von_Mises> Compilers just find the main function?
  96 2011-06-09 00:16:54 <Matt_von_Mises> I just put it in the main file. THat makes sense anyway.
  97 2011-06-09 00:17:00 <sipa> to a compiler, main is just a function
  98 2011-06-09 00:17:05 <sipa> why would it matter where it is
  99 2011-06-09 00:17:09 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: compilers treat the main function exactly the same as any other function they compile
 100 2011-06-09 00:17:40 <Matt_von_Mises> Except it's the where the program starts.
 101 2011-06-09 00:17:45 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: its only when it gets to the linker and loader that they need to figure out where to start running
 102 2011-06-09 00:17:55 diki has quit ()
 103 2011-06-09 00:18:47 <Matt_von_Mises> WEll I considered the linker a part of the compiler with what I just said.
 104 2011-06-09 00:18:52 <Matt_von_Mises> Not that this matters anyway
 105 2011-06-09 00:18:57 <sipa> even to the linker it is not special
 106 2011-06-09 00:19:20 <sipa> but by default, the linker will link with a standard library for your platform
 107 2011-06-09 00:19:27 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: take any C program and change main to mtmain and the compiler will not notice any errror. the error message you get will be from the linker
 108 2011-06-09 00:19:33 <sipa> which contains a call to main in its startup code
 109 2011-06-09 00:19:58 <Matt_von_Mises> GCC is a compiler, linker and whatever else right?
 110 2011-06-09 00:20:02 <sipa> yes
 111 2011-06-09 00:20:05 <Matt_von_Mises> But people just call it a compiler
 112 2011-06-09 00:20:19 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
 113 2011-06-09 00:20:21 <sipa> it's a compiler collection, but in general, you can call it that way
 114 2011-06-09 00:20:25 <lfm> gcc is a frontend to the preprocessor, compiler, and linker
 115 2011-06-09 00:20:41 <ali1234> and the assembler, don't forget that
 116 2011-06-09 00:20:53 <lfm> and assembler, yes
 117 2011-06-09 00:21:14 <Matt_von_Mises> Assembler?
 118 2011-06-09 00:21:18 <Kireji> OMG - I just realized we could enable people to create paper money!  I was reading this http://www.openmarket.org/2011/06/06/bitcoins-four-objections/
 119 2011-06-09 00:21:27 <Matt_von_Mises> Compilers produce a readable format for assembly?
 120 2011-06-09 00:21:27 <lfm> kinda a final pass for the compiler
 121 2011-06-09 00:21:40 <Matt_von_Mises> Not straight into machine code?
 122 2011-06-09 00:21:42 <Kireji> they would be one-use coupons with barcodes for the account number
 123 2011-06-09 00:21:53 <lfm> some compilers do not use assembles (but gcc does)
 124 2011-06-09 00:21:53 <sipa> Kireji: look up bitbills
 125 2011-06-09 00:21:57 <Kireji> and people could make and print them themselves
 126 2011-06-09 00:22:38 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 127 2011-06-09 00:23:00 apsoa has joined
 128 2011-06-09 00:23:11 <iz> Kireji: check out this thread http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=4555.0
 129 2011-06-09 00:23:13 <Kireji> sipa: that is silly
 130 2011-06-09 00:23:30 <Kireji> no need for self-destructing platic cards
 131 2011-06-09 00:23:33 <iz> i was thinking similar things, and i basically got to the same point
 132 2011-06-09 00:24:03 <sipa> Kireji: or look up jgarzik's scratch cards
 133 2011-06-09 00:24:03 <iz> if you wanted printed bills, it would need to use some system similar to those scratch-offs
 134 2011-06-09 00:24:05 <sipa> patch
 135 2011-06-09 00:24:07 <Kireji> when people relly need is a machine readable way to print your account numbers
 136 2011-06-09 00:24:25 <iz> Kireji: no, because the acount numbers aren't xferable like that
 137 2011-06-09 00:24:29 <Kireji> forum.bitcoin.org appears down
 138 2011-06-09 00:24:33 <sipa> Kireji: i have a patch that allows export and import of private keys
 139 2011-06-09 00:24:38 <lfm> Kireji: naw, just make a way to hook into those credit card readers
 140 2011-06-09 00:24:40 <iz> what's to stop me from printing 100 copies of the same bill for the same account?
 141 2011-06-09 00:24:49 <Kireji> iz: true
 142 2011-06-09 00:24:58 <Kireji> hmmm, have to think about it more
 143 2011-06-09 00:25:07 <iz> it would look like it had value for everyone, until the first person spent it.. and then it would be 0 value for everone else suddenly
 144 2011-06-09 00:25:17 <sipa> the thing with any physical representation of coins, is that it at least requires trust in the issuer
 145 2011-06-09 00:25:32 <iz> that forum page will load eventually.. it's just super lagged rn
 146 2011-06-09 00:25:33 <sipa> and depending on how it is constructed, possibly also from the seller
 147 2011-06-09 00:25:49 <lfm> iz thats why we generally say, do not pass around any private keys.
 148 2011-06-09 00:25:51 <iz> the scratch-off scheme seems pretty legit
 149 2011-06-09 00:26:16 <sipa> you can pass around private keys, but you need to know what you're doing
 150 2011-06-09 00:26:17 <Matt_von_Mises> Horrible variable names in this code. Little documentation. Great.
 151 2011-06-09 00:26:33 <Matt_von_Mises> Took up a lot of space to say "Start" though.
 152 2011-06-09 00:26:35 <lfm> sipa you need to know they wont get copied
 153 2011-06-09 00:26:39 oliveparty is now known as mindful
 154 2011-06-09 00:27:25 <lfm> sipa or if you are receiving them you need to know they havnt been copied
 155 2011-06-09 00:27:41 <sipa> no need, just import and transfer immediately
 156 2011-06-09 00:27:52 <sipa> but there's always the risk of a double spend then
 157 2011-06-09 00:28:06 <lfm> why use em then, just use regular online transaction?
 158 2011-06-09 00:28:08 <iz> sipa: how do you know the sender didn't already empty the account before you get a chance?
 159 2011-06-09 00:28:20 LobsterMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 160 2011-06-09 00:28:31 <Kireji> sipa: why trust, couldn't one verify the transaction easily?
 161 2011-06-09 00:28:47 <Zarutian> is the current topic discussing something like bitbills ?
 162 2011-06-09 00:29:08 <iz> yeah.. but using the scratch-off idea
 163 2011-06-09 00:29:26 LobsterMan has joined
 164 2011-06-09 00:29:29 <iz> and explaining the problem w/ bitbills
 165 2011-06-09 00:29:30 LobsterMan has quit (Changing host)
 166 2011-06-09 00:29:30 LobsterMan has joined
 167 2011-06-09 00:29:37 <Kireji> lfm: the point of a physical item is to allow the spending aprty to not be online
 168 2011-06-09 00:29:42 <sipa> Kireji: not offline
 169 2011-06-09 00:29:53 <Kireji> at the time of the transaction
 170 2011-06-09 00:30:06 <sipa> iz: that's why you definitely need to trust the issuer
 171 2011-06-09 00:30:14 <sipa> because he certainly had the key at some point
 172 2011-06-09 00:30:16 <ultrafluf> hmmm
 173 2011-06-09 00:30:20 <ultrafluf> i just realised something
 174 2011-06-09 00:30:23 <ultrafluf> no
 175 2011-06-09 00:30:24 <ultrafluf> better
 176 2011-06-09 00:30:26 <ultrafluf> i just found something
 177 2011-06-09 00:30:35 <sipa> and if the key is visible from the 'thing', you need to trust all who had their eyes on it
 178 2011-06-09 00:30:36 <iz> Kireji: i don't know if it's really possible to do that w/ bitcoins.. to securely hand off to an offline receiver
 179 2011-06-09 00:30:50 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
 180 2011-06-09 00:30:53 <Kireji> it's an offline spender, and online reciever
 181 2011-06-09 00:31:11 <Zarutian> so the question is how to make a tamper-proof/evident scratch-off bitbills printer then?
 182 2011-06-09 00:31:18 <ultrafluf> when they were talking about the name or new ammount for coins
 183 2011-06-09 00:31:22 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 184 2011-06-09 00:31:22 <ultrafluf> An output contains instructions for sending bitcoins. Value is the number of Satoshi (1 BTC = 100,000,000 Satoshi)
 185 2011-06-09 00:31:25 <ultrafluf> is on the wiki
 186 2011-06-09 00:31:28 <ultrafluf> so it already has a name
 187 2011-06-09 00:31:30 <ultrafluf> :>
 188 2011-06-09 00:31:34 <lfm> Kireji: so how would you make it clear that the receiver needs to be online and verify it before they complete the transaction
 189 2011-06-09 00:31:41 <ultrafluf> i want an option to display BTC in satoshis :>>>
 190 2011-06-09 00:31:42 <sipa> ultrafluf: not everyones agrees with the name though
 191 2011-06-09 00:31:45 <ultrafluf> o
 192 2011-06-09 00:31:49 <Kireji> Zarutian: bitbill is making them tamper proof, that's the wrong way
 193 2011-06-09 00:31:53 <ultrafluf> i don't know where it comes from
 194 2011-06-09 00:32:28 <Zarutian> Kireji: nono not the bills themselfs but the appartatus that prints them/assembles them
 195 2011-06-09 00:32:51 <Kireji> lol, I need to work on it more
 196 2011-06-09 00:32:55 quitr_ has joined
 197 2011-06-09 00:32:56 <Zarutian> Kireji: the bills themselfs only need to be tamper evident (Already scracthed?)
 198 2011-06-09 00:33:37 <sipa> what's wrong with making them tamper proof?
 199 2011-06-09 00:33:47 <Kireji> it's expensive
 200 2011-06-09 00:33:48 <Zarutian> sipa: too expensive
 201 2011-06-09 00:33:50 <lfm> Zarutian: you still cant know if it is worth anything till you get online cuz it could be duplicated by the maker
 202 2011-06-09 00:33:52 <Kireji> ok, so this is how it works
 203 2011-06-09 00:34:03 <sipa> it's that, or trusting all previous owners
 204 2011-06-09 00:34:28 <Kireji> bitcoin getnewexportkey <account>
 205 2011-06-09 00:34:34 <ultrafluf> so if someone pays you with an usb stick with a wallet on it you better verify it right way :> or send it to yourself ^^
 206 2011-06-09 00:34:40 <lfm> or trust a "bank" to make them
 207 2011-06-09 00:34:45 <Kireji> erm
 208 2011-06-09 00:34:49 <Kireji> bitcoin getnewexportkey <account> <amount>
 209 2011-06-09 00:34:52 <Zarutian> Kireji: what is the format of the returned value?
 210 2011-06-09 00:35:01 <sipa> Kireji: that's already implemented
 211 2011-06-09 00:35:09 Stellar has joined
 212 2011-06-09 00:35:12 <Kireji> this will generate a new keypair for an address, a private and public key
 213 2011-06-09 00:35:21 <sipa> jgarzik has a special scratchcard patch, i have an exportprivkey patch
 214 2011-06-09 00:35:22 <Kireji> typically we only pass around the public keys
 215 2011-06-09 00:35:55 <Kireji> however, to "export" it to be able to print it, you do a new transaction
 216 2011-06-09 00:36:00 <iz> also the patch uses standard transactions still
 217 2011-06-09 00:36:01 <lfm> Kireji: and there is a good reason we only pass around public keys
 218 2011-06-09 00:36:04 <Kireji> to the new key
 219 2011-06-09 00:36:08 <Cusipzzz> ;;seen theymos
 220 2011-06-09 00:36:09 <gribble> theymos was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 days, 13 hours, 26 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <theymos> vs less than a cent to pay for Eligius to include a non-standard transaction.
 221 2011-06-09 00:36:19 <Kireji> in the amount ot <amount>
 222 2011-06-09 00:36:32 <sipa> Kireji: yes
 223 2011-06-09 00:36:41 <Kireji> now you have a privatea and a public keypair, and there is a transaction in block chain saying how much it can be worth
 224 2011-06-09 00:36:58 <sipa> yes
 225 2011-06-09 00:37:04 d1234_ has joined
 226 2011-06-09 00:37:05 <Kireji> you then take and print, in machine readable form, the private key to a piece of paper
 227 2011-06-09 00:37:09 * Zarutian really would like the string op codes in the bitcoin txn script system to be useable so transaction such as "Not Before" using time construction from that paper on clueless software agents.
 228 2011-06-09 00:37:12 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 229 2011-06-09 00:37:15 <lfm> Kireji: and you can make duplicates and pass out as many as you want and only one will work
 230 2011-06-09 00:37:16 <Kireji> and the public key
 231 2011-06-09 00:37:22 <Kireji> correct
 232 2011-06-09 00:37:31 <sipa> Kireji: see http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=4555.0
 233 2011-06-09 00:37:32 <Kireji> these are only one-use certificate
 234 2011-06-09 00:37:32 d1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 235 2011-06-09 00:37:33 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
 236 2011-06-09 00:37:45 <lfm> so its not like cash, which is what people are thinking
 237 2011-06-09 00:37:51 <Kireji> to accept one of these, the vendor *must* be online
 238 2011-06-09 00:38:12 <sipa> the only way to have something like cash, is using a tamper-proof mechanism
 239 2011-06-09 00:38:18 <Kireji> he takes the paper, reads it, and immediately does a new transaction to his own account (all fully automanted)
 240 2011-06-09 00:38:21 <sipa> and that works by trusting the issuer
 241 2011-06-09 00:38:36 <iz> Kireji: what's to stop someone from "skimming" all the priv keys from the bills and then still spending them as physical tokens?
 242 2011-06-09 00:38:41 <Kireji> lfm: it's kind of cash, **but anyone can print it on their own printer**
 243 2011-06-09 00:38:43 <lfm> like a bank note issuer
 244 2011-06-09 00:38:50 <Kireji> it's one-use coupons
 245 2011-06-09 00:38:53 <sipa> it's not cash - it's a gift card
 246 2011-06-09 00:38:59 <sipa> you cannot trade with it
 247 2011-06-09 00:39:10 <sipa> you can sell it though, to people who trust you
 248 2011-06-09 00:39:13 <Kireji> iz: if you lose the bill, you lose the <amount>
 249 2011-06-09 00:39:19 <iz> no
 250 2011-06-09 00:39:21 <sipa> but they can only redeem it, not sell it again
 251 2011-06-09 00:39:22 pogden has joined
 252 2011-06-09 00:39:29 <iz> i mean they read off all the priv keys from 10000 bills
 253 2011-06-09 00:39:34 <iz> and still spend them as bills
 254 2011-06-09 00:39:42 <iz> while emptying out their btc balances online
 255 2011-06-09 00:39:53 <Kireji> sipa: if they are online they do not need to trust me, they can do a transaction with it, and verify it as redeemed immediately (10m)
 256 2011-06-09 00:40:00 <lfm> iz: huh? bank notes are copy resistant
 257 2011-06-09 00:40:12 <iz> there's no way for the recipient of a bill to know this hasn't happened
 258 2011-06-09 00:40:13 <sipa> Kireji: as can the seller
 259 2011-06-09 00:40:19 <ultrafluf> it's like a cheque
 260 2011-06-09 00:40:21 <sipa> Kireji: even if you are online
 261 2011-06-09 00:40:21 <Kireji> iz: if someone reads the bills, they are apent
 262 2011-06-09 00:40:25 <GarrettB> iz: QR code + app to check it
 263 2011-06-09 00:40:30 pRjck3vC has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 264 2011-06-09 00:40:32 <ultrafluf> except with the network as your bank basically
 265 2011-06-09 00:40:35 <Zarutian> Kireji: so the bills are two QR coded btc: uris. One encoding the btc value and address and one hidden benethe a scratch off layer giving the priv key for that address?
 266 2011-06-09 00:40:44 <GarrettB> then scan the private key QR and instantly send the coins to an address you control
 267 2011-06-09 00:40:52 <iz> 16:32 < Kireji> you then take and print, in machine readable form, the private key to a piece of paper
 268 2011-06-09 00:40:53 <Kireji> no scratch off
 269 2011-06-09 00:41:01 arienh4 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 270 2011-06-09 00:41:08 <iz> if the priv key is on the printed bills in a machine readabl form
 271 2011-06-09 00:41:08 <sipa> what are we discussing about?
 272 2011-06-09 00:41:10 <GarrettB> query a public server that monitors all txs, ask if it has seen any other tx double spend that address
 273 2011-06-09 00:41:11 <Zarutian> (or x-btc: uris, the x- stands for experimental/unregistered with the IANA)
 274 2011-06-09 00:41:17 <GarrettB> if yes, don't accept, otherwise, do
 275 2011-06-09 00:41:28 <sipa> yes you can do that, but it's only useful to sell to people that trust you
 276 2011-06-09 00:41:29 <Kireji> GarrettB: that works too
 277 2011-06-09 00:41:39 <Kireji> you could then test if a bill has been spent
 278 2011-06-09 00:41:41 <lfm> or to people online
 279 2011-06-09 00:41:48 <ultrafluf> cheques are useful
 280 2011-06-09 00:41:50 <sipa> GarrettB: lookup the finney attack
 281 2011-06-09 00:41:51 [Tycho] has quit (Changing host)
 282 2011-06-09 00:41:51 [Tycho] has joined
 283 2011-06-09 00:41:53 <iz> why can't an attacker read off all the priv keys.. and then create transactions that clear out the balances, which will be put on the network around the same time they are physically spending the bill
 284 2011-06-09 00:42:00 <ultrafluf> especially if they are verifiable fast
 285 2011-06-09 00:42:08 <sipa> GarrettB: your scheme is vulnerable to that
 286 2011-06-09 00:42:12 <Kireji> iz: they could, don't give the coupins to an attacker
 287 2011-06-09 00:42:19 <Zarutian> iz: because the scratch layer would be scratched off?
 288 2011-06-09 00:42:22 <Kireji> they are single-use coupons
 289 2011-06-09 00:42:23 <lfm> iz: there is a limited amount in the account on the note
 290 2011-06-09 00:42:34 <lfm> iz ie the total
 291 2011-06-09 00:42:37 <Zarutian> iz: oh you are thinking about the issuer of such "notes", yes?
 292 2011-06-09 00:42:42 <Kireji> Zarutian: there is no scratch odd
 293 2011-06-09 00:42:45 <Kireji> erm off
 294 2011-06-09 00:42:48 <iz> Kireji: you are talking about something that would be printed on a normal printer, with a QR code that has the priv key of the account on it, right?
 295 2011-06-09 00:42:59 <Kireji> iz: yes
 296 2011-06-09 00:43:02 <ultrafluf> >.>
 297 2011-06-09 00:43:13 <Kireji> I don't know if it would work
 298 2011-06-09 00:43:14 <iz> lfm, Zarutian: that's what i'm responding to
 299 2011-06-09 00:43:16 <sipa> i would definitely do that
 300 2011-06-09 00:43:19 <sipa> actually, i will
 301 2011-06-09 00:43:20 <Kireji> it's just an idea at this point
 302 2011-06-09 00:43:22 <sipa> but not for trading
 303 2011-06-09 00:43:24 <sipa> but for backup
 304 2011-06-09 00:43:43 cdecker has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 305 2011-06-09 00:43:45 <Zarutian> iz: I see
 306 2011-06-09 00:43:48 <lfm> or for offline storage
 307 2011-06-09 00:43:55 <Kireji> iz: it would need to have both keys I think
 308 2011-06-09 00:44:11 <sipa> Kireji: you can derive public key from the private key
 309 2011-06-09 00:44:12 <Zarutian> iz: a bit too much traffic here to quite keep up while looking up other stuff
 310 2011-06-09 00:44:17 cdecker has joined
 311 2011-06-09 00:44:19 <Kireji> having a machine readable standard for keys would also help offline storage significantly too
 312 2011-06-09 00:44:25 pnicholson has joined
 313 2011-06-09 00:44:25 aximilation has joined
 314 2011-06-09 00:44:27 <Kireji> sipa: ok
 315 2011-06-09 00:44:32 <Kireji> really?
 316 2011-06-09 00:44:34 <Zarutian> btw was bitcoin: uri handling added to the official btc node software or?
 317 2011-06-09 00:44:40 <comboy> is there any test suite for bitcoin client?
 318 2011-06-09 00:44:51 <Kireji> comboy: there is a test net
 319 2011-06-09 00:45:00 <sipa> Zarutian: not yet
 320 2011-06-09 00:45:01 <lfm> kiraya for people who dont trust flash memory or cd/dvds
 321 2011-06-09 00:45:03 <Kireji> I did not see any "make test" or a test suite
 322 2011-06-09 00:45:08 <Zarutian> comboy: not to my knowledge but it is been a short while since I checked.
 323 2011-06-09 00:45:15 <sipa> Kireji: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8091.0
 324 2011-06-09 00:45:29 <lfm> Kireji: testnet is supported in the standard clients
 325 2011-06-09 00:45:30 <Zarutian> sipa: is there a ticket for it or something in a trac somewhere?
 326 2011-06-09 00:45:33 dx25 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 327 2011-06-09 00:45:44 <sipa> Zarutian: read
 328 2011-06-09 00:45:48 <comboy> Kireji: I meant test suite so that you can test it does everything correctly after you do some changes in the source
 329 2011-06-09 00:46:00 <Kireji> comboy: yes, I looked, did not see that
 330 2011-06-09 00:46:06 <sipa> Zarutian: there's a link to the github pull request
 331 2011-06-09 00:46:09 <Kireji> sipa: reading
 332 2011-06-09 00:46:12 <lfm> comboy: yes -testnet command line option
 333 2011-06-09 00:46:20 errydayimgenerat has joined
 334 2011-06-09 00:46:39 <comboy> lfm: I mean automated
 335 2011-06-09 00:46:46 <sipa> comboy: no, no test framework, unfortunately
 336 2011-06-09 00:46:55 <comboy> lfm: like maybe also some unit tests, or something like that
 337 2011-06-09 00:47:11 <lfm> comboy oh, nope, just get on testnet and run your own tests
 338 2011-06-09 00:47:25 <comboy> I see
 339 2011-06-09 00:47:30 dermoth has quit (home!~thomas@dsl-141-145.aei.ca|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 340 2011-06-09 00:47:53 <lfm> comboy: it might be a good idea tho if it could be figured out how to manage it
 341 2011-06-09 00:47:55 dermoth has joined
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 343 2011-06-09 00:48:23 Kolky has joined
 344 2011-06-09 00:48:30 <Kireji> sipa: yeah, that thread is very close
 345 2011-06-09 00:48:37 <Kireji> no need to encrypt though
 346 2011-06-09 00:48:46 <Kireji> although you could
 347 2011-06-09 00:48:49 <Matt_von_Mises> https://github.com/andrewschaaf/node-bitcoin-p2p <- Seriously javascript??
 348 2011-06-09 00:49:03 <Kireji> if you encrypted, it would prevent any incentive to steal the bills
 349 2011-06-09 00:49:18 midnightmagic has joined
 350 2011-06-09 00:49:20 <comboy> lfm: I could try some high level black box testing maybe, I'm definitely not comfortable enough around cpp to introduce some new parts or choose test framework
 351 2011-06-09 00:49:24 <Kireji> ahh, *plus* if they are stolen, they can't be used, you JUST PRINT MORE!
 352 2011-06-09 00:49:49 <Zarutian> Matt_von_Mises: sure, steal a few cpu cycles from people visiting your webpage though it would have been better to use a java applet for the heavy lifitng
 353 2011-06-09 00:50:37 <Matt_von_Mises> If people made a javascript library, why is there not a C library? :(
 354 2011-06-09 00:50:37 <Zarutian> Matt_von_Mises: or even NativeClient
 355 2011-06-09 00:50:49 <lfm> Kireji: so anyone who breaks in to your pc can reprint any of your notes?
 356 2011-06-09 00:51:01 quitr_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 357 2011-06-09 00:51:04 BCBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 358 2011-06-09 00:51:33 <Kireji> lfm: if they break into your pc you're screwed already
 359 2011-06-09 00:51:40 <Zarutian> lfm: and here we come again to the topic of insufficent usable security on pc and other general purpose computers such as smartphones
 360 2011-06-09 00:51:56 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: there are libs to interface to the json portal of bitcoind
 361 2011-06-09 00:51:59 blueadept has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 362 2011-06-09 00:52:17 <Zarutian> lfm: I recommend reading about object-capabilities and such, good start is wiki.erights.org iirc
 363 2011-06-09 00:52:31 <lfm> Zarutian: no thanks
 364 2011-06-09 00:52:40 intractable has quit (Quit: out)
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 367 2011-06-09 00:52:44 Cablesaurus has joined
 368 2011-06-09 00:52:46 <sipa> Matt_von_Mises: the eventual goal is to turn the current bitcoind codebase into a library
 369 2011-06-09 00:52:50 <sipa> but it's a mess
 370 2011-06-09 00:53:07 <Zarutian> sipa: damn straight it is a bloody mess
 371 2011-06-09 00:54:06 <Zarutian> one good idea would be giving the transaction checked a handle to a object that handles transaction retrival given the hash of the transaction
 372 2011-06-09 00:54:17 <sipa> Zarutian: here's my first major attempt to solve that: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9492.0
 373 2011-06-09 00:54:19 <Zarutian> s/checked/checker
 374 2011-06-09 00:54:25 <lfm> Zarutian: currently only some parts have been separated out so you can do mining in a different context and you can do json frontends in a different context
 375 2011-06-09 00:54:50 <comboy> having datailed test suite could help  a lot, even if somebody do some big rewrite it must be really hard to accept it and be sure there was no error introduced (that could maybe in some conditions make people loose money)
 376 2011-06-09 00:54:55 <Matt_von_Mises> Has anyone tried to convert it to C at all?
 377 2011-06-09 00:55:12 <Zarutian> that way the backend could be a p2p distributed hash table such as Kadmila or Choord or Pastry
 378 2011-06-09 00:55:13 <lfm> comboy: yup
 379 2011-06-09 00:55:17 BCBot has joined
 380 2011-06-09 00:55:18 <sipa> Matt_von_Mises: i doubt that
 381 2011-06-09 00:55:41 aficiomaquinas has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 382 2011-06-09 00:55:43 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: seems its easier to rewrite it in java than convert it
 383 2011-06-09 00:55:53  has joined
 384 2011-06-09 00:55:55 dx25 has joined
 385 2011-06-09 00:55:58 <Zarutian> lfm: or in golang for that matter
 386 2011-06-09 00:56:05 <GarrettB> gentlemen, we are back at 30
 387 2011-06-09 00:56:14 <sipa> also, the c++ isn't the problem, it's the terrible separation of modules
 388 2011-06-09 00:56:16 falafell1 has joined
 389 2011-06-09 00:56:24 <Zarutian> GarrettB: 30 USD<->1 BTC?
 390 2011-06-09 00:56:33 <GarrettB> Zarutian: yes
 391 2011-06-09 00:56:43 vokoda` has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 392 2011-06-09 00:57:19 <Matt_von_Mises> Who here thinks bitcoin will stabilise at a high price?
 393 2011-06-09 00:57:51 blueadept has joined
 394 2011-06-09 00:57:53 <Matt_von_Mises> And who thinks it will crash once there's no more speculators to fuel the bubble?
 395 2011-06-09 00:57:53 falafell2 has joined
 396 2011-06-09 00:57:55 <Zarutian> Matt_von_Mises: too many unknowns to constrain predictions of the future to tell
 397 2011-06-09 00:57:56 <lfm> Matt_von_Mises: I think it will crash
 398 2011-06-09 00:57:57 Sylph has joined
 399 2011-06-09 00:58:30 <Matt_von_Mises> My assumption is that most bitcoins are held for speculation and not for currency.
 400 2011-06-09 00:58:37 <Zarutian> personally I suspect that btc will become like Williams Gibbsons New Yen
 401 2011-06-09 00:58:38 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 402 2011-06-09 00:58:42 falafell1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 403 2011-06-09 00:58:52 falafell has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 404 2011-06-09 01:02:10 <GarrettB> Matt_von_Mises: chalk me down for the former
 405 2011-06-09 01:02:11 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
 406 2011-06-09 01:03:30 dolch has joined
 407 2011-06-09 01:04:13 <Matt_von_Mises> Do you seriously think the recent rise was created through demand to use bitcoin as a currency and people wont be selling back to usual fiat money?
 408 2011-06-09 01:04:33 <Matt_von_Mises> THere is definitely speculation. How much is the question.
 409 2011-06-09 01:05:01 <GarrettB> I think that there are speculators, obviously, but I think that it is speculation that bitcoin will be ubiquitous in the future, not that it will just rise and they will sell out
 410 2011-06-09 01:05:10 <Matt_von_Mises> If you want to speculate, hoping there is little speculation (Isn't that funny), I would advise against it.
 411 2011-06-09 01:05:21 <GarrettB> speculation isn't a bad thing - it provides incentive for us to get shit in gear and build an economy
 412 2011-06-09 01:05:24 <Matt_von_Mises> I'm not speculating on bitcoin.
 413 2011-06-09 01:05:42 <Matt_von_Mises> Id I was wrong and I could have got rich, I don't care. Simple, way to risky.
 414 2011-06-09 01:06:07 <Matt_von_Mises> Simply way too risky.
 415 2011-06-09 01:06:22 glicth-mod has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 416 2011-06-09 01:06:33 <Matt_von_Mises> Speculative bubbles is where people lose a lot of money through their won stupidity.
 417 2011-06-09 01:06:51 <Zarutian> Matt_von_Mises: diffrence from gambling?
 418 2011-06-09 01:07:43 <Matt_von_Mises> General speculation on troughs and peaks smooths out prices. It reduces volatility.
 419 2011-06-09 01:08:16 <Matt_von_Mises> Well when you gamble on bubbles, it's a game to see how long you can make money before you lose it all.
 420 2011-06-09 01:08:30 <Matt_von_Mises> I wouldn't take such risks.
 421 2011-06-09 01:08:37  is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-251-224-61.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
 422 2011-06-09 01:08:46 MT`AwAy is now known as MagicalTux
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 425 2011-06-09 01:09:35 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
 426 2011-06-09 01:11:17 <Zarutian> Matt_von_Mises: sounds like reverse auction often called netherlands auction, the auctioneer starts with a ridiculus high price and lowers until someone raises hand. That guy or gal then gets the wares on that price.
 427 2011-06-09 01:17:38 Scorpion_ has joined
 428 2011-06-09 01:17:53 zespri has quit ()
 429 2011-06-09 01:18:21 trentzb has joined
 430 2011-06-09 01:19:51 <Kireji> I posted thoughts and ideas on single-use printable coupons here http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=13784.0
 431 2011-06-09 01:20:05 <luke-jr> lfm: no, God made the world in 7 days
 432 2011-06-09 01:20:09 cdecker has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 439 2011-06-09 01:24:22 Herodes has joined
 440 2011-06-09 01:24:47 <Zarutian> luke-jr: her time or our time?
 441 2011-06-09 01:25:00 <iz> Kireji: does the reciever of the coupon need to know the pin to validate its value and that it hasen't been double-spent?
 442 2011-06-09 01:25:26 Test007 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 443 2011-06-09 01:25:43 Test007 has joined
 444 2011-06-09 01:29:22 bk128 has joined
 445 2011-06-09 01:31:40 <Matt_von_Mises> I'm off to bed. I'd like to get involved with bitcoin someday. But before I can really do that, the current code needs to be improved and hopefully a library written. I'd be especially interested if there was a C library.
 446 2011-06-09 01:31:53 <Matt_von_Mises> But good luck to all. Goodnight.
 447 2011-06-09 01:32:49 Matt_von_Mises has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 448 2011-06-09 01:32:54 <phantomcircuit> phantomcircuit@vserver:~$ ./bitcoind
 449 2011-06-09 01:32:54 <phantomcircuit> -bash: ./bitcoind: No such file or directory
 450 2011-06-09 01:32:56 <phantomcircuit> lies
 451 2011-06-09 01:33:04 <phantomcircuit> fucking debian why do you do this to me
 452 2011-06-09 01:34:44 bk128_ has joined
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 454 2011-06-09 01:34:44 bk128_ has joined
 455 2011-06-09 01:35:47 johnnympereira5 has joined
 456 2011-06-09 01:37:53 <bk128_> jgarzik: I like how some news sites called you the founder of bitcoin :)
 457 2011-06-09 01:38:31 bk128 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 458 2011-06-09 01:38:31 bk128_ is now known as bk128
 459 2011-06-09 01:39:26 <bk128> good interview
 460 2011-06-09 01:39:50 Kurtov has joined
 461 2011-06-09 01:39:57 neopallium has joined
 462 2011-06-09 01:40:14 <Zarutian> link to that, interview is someone would be so kind?
 463 2011-06-09 01:40:24 citiz3n has joined
 464 2011-06-09 01:41:16 <Jesque> you guys are clever alright :)
 465 2011-06-09 01:41:37 Jesque has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 466 2011-06-09 01:41:49 Jesque has joined
 467 2011-06-09 01:41:51 <Raccoon> wow, someone really made sure we rebound to $30
 468 2011-06-09 01:42:28 <Kireji> iz: yes
 469 2011-06-09 01:42:29 <yebyen> really
 470 2011-06-09 01:42:59 <Kireji> iz the pin takes the coupon and exposes the private key, making it a bearer bond at that point
 471 2011-06-09 01:43:17 <Kireji> Raccoon: it's a really thin market
 472 2011-06-09 01:43:39 <Raccoon> indeed.
 473 2011-06-09 01:43:39 <Kireji> you can see the depth of the whole arder book, it;s like a couple hundred orders on each side
 474 2011-06-09 01:44:24 <Raccoon> i regret helping someone via paypal, cuz paypal screwed me and held up my funds
 475 2011-06-09 01:44:41 <Raccoon> sold at 11.5 and only just this hour got the money back into mtgox
 476 2011-06-09 01:45:34 <Raccoon> ~$1600 loss
 477 2011-06-09 01:45:38 jmpespxoreax has joined
 478 2011-06-09 01:45:54 <iz> Kireji: well, then the reciever can't verify the value until the "sender" gives out the pin and reveals the priv key
 479 2011-06-09 01:46:26 <Raccoon> what's the point in revealing private keys?
 480 2011-06-09 01:46:31 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 481 2011-06-09 01:46:41 <Raccoon> now you have two people with access
 482 2011-06-09 01:47:02 <iz> Raccoon: this is re: kireji's forum post, mentioned recently in the scrollback
 483 2011-06-09 01:47:53 <Raccoon> ah, yeah just noticed it
 484 2011-06-09 01:49:22 <Raccoon> btw
 485 2011-06-09 01:49:23 <Raccoon> [15:54] <Kireji> jgarzik: saw you on cbs interview, it went well, congratz.  you made several good points
 486 2011-06-09 01:49:24 <Raccoon> [15:54] <Raccoon> jgarzik: link plotz
 487 2011-06-09 01:49:31 <Raccoon> does anyone have a link to that interview?
 488 2011-06-09 01:50:40 <iz> Raccoon: i think this it is: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504943_162-20069780-10391715.html
 489 2011-06-09 01:50:53 <GarrettB> Raccoon: your fingers clearly aren't broken
 490 2011-06-09 01:50:59 <GarrettB> and I'm sure you know of google
 491 2011-06-09 01:51:13 dolch has quit (Quit: leaving)
 492 2011-06-09 01:51:16 <GarrettB> and I'm betting there was only one cbs interview of Jeff Garzik recently :P
 493 2011-06-09 01:52:15 BurningToad has joined
 494 2011-06-09 01:52:40 <tcatm> what does a current (=git head) bitcoin version return as version during handshake?
 495 2011-06-09 01:53:10 <Raccoon> thanks iz
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 502 2011-06-09 01:55:57 <tcatm> nm. found the bug
 503 2011-06-09 01:56:29 Kolky has quit (Quit: Bye bye!)
 504 2011-06-09 01:56:49 eoss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 505 2011-06-09 01:57:14 Blitzboom_ has joined
 506 2011-06-09 01:58:35 <lfm> tcatm: is http://eu1.bitcoincharts.com/map/ yours?
 507 2011-06-09 01:59:02 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 508 2011-06-09 02:00:00 pensan has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 509 2011-06-09 02:00:33 <tcatm> lfm: yes
 510 2011-06-09 02:00:35 <tcatm> lfm: currently down
 511 2011-06-09 02:00:47 minus has joined
 512 2011-06-09 02:01:06 <minus> is it normal for bitcoind to use 150MB ram and quite a lot of cpu power?
 513 2011-06-09 02:01:41 <gmaxwell> minus: it should only use a lot of cpu durning bring up
 514 2011-06-09 02:01:51 <gmaxwell> if you have generate enabled turn it of, as its useless.
 515 2011-06-09 02:01:55 <lfm> minus is generate on?
 516 2011-06-09 02:01:56 <minus> it's randomly using a lot
 517 2011-06-09 02:02:02 <minus> no generating is off
 518 2011-06-09 02:02:13 <gmaxwell> ah, well there will be some spike when new blocks come in.
 519 2011-06-09 02:02:16 <lfm> minus ok what block number do you have?
 520 2011-06-09 02:02:19 <phantomcircuit> minus, do you hae the full block chain?
 521 2011-06-09 02:02:26 <minus> not sure
 522 2011-06-09 02:02:29 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
 523 2011-06-09 02:02:29 <minus> i just installed it
 524 2011-06-09 02:02:29 <gribble> 129478
 525 2011-06-09 02:02:40 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
 526 2011-06-09 02:02:45 <minus> eh
 527 2011-06-09 02:02:46 <lfm> minus bottom line of the window?
 528 2011-06-09 02:02:50 <minus> still lacks 40k blocks
 529 2011-06-09 02:03:06 <lfm> minus ok, when it catches up it should calm down
 530 2011-06-09 02:03:16 <minus> memory use aswell?
 531 2011-06-09 02:03:19 scott` has quit (Quit: scott`)
 532 2011-06-09 02:03:33 <minus> 'cause i dont really have 160MB spare
 533 2011-06-09 02:03:37 <lfm> minus: well it can prolly swap out a lot of it ya
 534 2011-06-09 02:03:44 scott` has joined
 535 2011-06-09 02:03:45 <minus> i dont have swap
 536 2011-06-09 02:03:57 <lfm> minus: linux or windows?
 537 2011-06-09 02:04:04 <minus> linux
 538 2011-06-09 02:04:14 <minus> and i cant do anything about it
 539 2011-06-09 02:04:19 <lfm> oh well make a swap file then?!
 540 2011-06-09 02:04:28 <GarrettB> big selloff
 541 2011-06-09 02:04:58 <tcatm> jgarzik: 3486 32100: 65% 32200: 16% 32002: 8% 31900: 4% 32001: 2%
 542 2011-06-09 02:05:39 <tcatm> sample size + dict of version:percentage
 543 2011-06-09 02:06:24 <lfm> minus: you cant make a swap file? is it a vps?
 544 2011-06-09 02:07:14 <minus> indeed it is
 545 2011-06-09 02:07:24 <minus> openvz is a bitch
 546 2011-06-09 02:07:37 <lfm> minus well perhaps it is just too small to run bitcoin then
 547 2011-06-09 02:08:07 <minus> on my desktop it just needs 60MB RAM, that'd be acceptable for the server
 548 2011-06-09 02:08:40 <tcatm> lfm: map is back
 549 2011-06-09 02:09:26 <tcatm> now limited to about 800 nodes
 550 2011-06-09 02:09:50 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
 551 2011-06-09 02:09:57 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
 552 2011-06-09 02:09:57 Blitzboom has joined
 553 2011-06-09 02:10:06 <lfm> tcatm still shows empty map for me
 554 2011-06-09 02:10:17 <tcatm> try to refresh
 555 2011-06-09 02:10:18 psyshook has joined
 556 2011-06-09 02:10:51 <lfm> tcatm refersh doesnt help (firefox on linux64)
 557 2011-06-09 02:11:04 <tcatm> enable websocket support
 558 2011-06-09 02:11:20 <lfm> whats that?
 559 2011-06-09 02:11:24 <tcatm> firefox4?
 560 2011-06-09 02:11:30  is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-69-208-130-177.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net|Netsniper
 561 2011-06-09 02:11:37 <tcatm> http://techdows.com/2010/12/turn-on-websockets-in-firefox-4.html
 562 2011-06-09 02:11:45 <lfm> 3.6.17
 563 2011-06-09 02:12:12 <tcatm> try chrome or ff4
 564 2011-06-09 02:12:32 <tcatm> websockets are basically a way to use the underlying tcp connection of a http request
 565 2011-06-09 02:12:47 <minus> does 3.6 have them?
 566 2011-06-09 02:12:50 <tcatm> no
 567 2011-06-09 02:12:51 <gmaxwell> No.
 568 2011-06-09 02:13:14 <minus> in ff4 you need to pull off about:config stunts, i.e. security-override
 569 2011-06-09 02:13:16 <tcatm> once you see the map you know why XHR or long polling wouldn't work... it's just too much data
 570 2011-06-09 02:13:18 <phantomcircuit> websockets are retarded
 571 2011-06-09 02:13:20 <lfm> tcatm: ok chrome works
 572 2011-06-09 02:13:34 <tcatm> websockets are great
 573 2011-06-09 02:13:49 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
 574 2011-06-09 02:13:55 <phantomcircuit> and dont work in 90% of browsers
 575 2011-06-09 02:13:58 <minus> there's even HTML5 games using them for multiplayer
 576 2011-06-09 02:14:05 <minus> not yet phantomcircuit
 577 2011-06-09 02:14:14 <tcatm> that'll hopefully change soon
 578 2011-06-09 02:14:29 <tcatm> for most applications socket.io is a good abstraction layer with lots of fallback methods
 579 2011-06-09 02:14:37 <phantomcircuit> but to be more accurate the websockets specification is pretty much dumb as shit
 580 2011-06-09 02:14:40 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
 581 2011-06-09 02:14:44 <minus> 94k blocks... it's going so slow
 582 2011-06-09 02:14:57 <phantomcircuit> there are field delimiters WITHOUT ESCAPE SEQUENCES FOR THEM
 583 2011-06-09 02:15:02 <minus> can i upload the blockchain from my desktop?
 584 2011-06-09 02:15:13 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 585 2011-06-09 02:15:26 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: yep that sucks...
 586 2011-06-09 02:15:42 <phantomcircuit> yeah there are byte sequences you literally can never send over a websocket
 587 2011-06-09 02:15:44 <phantomcircuit> as in
 588 2011-06-09 02:15:45 <phantomcircuit> ever
 589 2011-06-09 02:16:02 <phantomcircuit> because it was designed by a bunch of hipster ror douchehats
 590 2011-06-09 02:16:04 <tcatm> use ascii
 591 2011-06-09 02:16:27 mmoya has joined
 592 2011-06-09 02:16:49 yellowhat has joined
 593 2011-06-09 02:17:15 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, the delimiter is printable ascii
 594 2011-06-09 02:17:18 <phantomcircuit> i forget what it is
 595 2011-06-09 02:17:20 <lfm> minus: to what?
 596 2011-06-09 02:17:34 <minus> to the server
 597 2011-06-09 02:17:37 <GarrettB> minus: if you mean to back it up, technically yes, but there's no real need
 598 2011-06-09 02:18:18 <lfm> minus: I dont think that would help
 599 2011-06-09 02:18:32 <minus> would take too long to upload anyway
 600 2011-06-09 02:18:37 <phantomcircuit> minus, yes you can, stop bitcoin on both and simply copy everything but wallet.dat, then on the server the first time you start bitcoind run it as ./bitcoind -daemon -rescan
 601 2011-06-09 02:19:12 Counsel has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
 602 2011-06-09 02:19:24 <lfm> well just blk00001.dat and blkindex.dat I think, not everything
 603 2011-06-09 02:19:48 <lfm> no sense copyin debug.log for instance
 604 2011-06-09 02:20:54 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, 0xFF<UTF-8 DATA>0xFF
 605 2011-06-09 02:21:02 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, that is the entire framing protocol
 606 2011-06-09 02:21:07 <phantomcircuit> except one small problem
 607 2011-06-09 02:21:14 <phantomcircuit> 0xFF is valid in UTF-8
 608 2011-06-09 02:21:29 <phantomcircuit> it's just not common
 609 2011-06-09 02:21:57 <lfm> well just shows you that utf-8 is silly then
 610 2011-06-09 02:22:00 <darbsllim> nanotube you around?
 611 2011-06-09 02:22:07 _W_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 612 2011-06-09 02:22:42 boboing has joined
 613 2011-06-09 02:22:59 <minus> that whole websocket protocol isnt very professional from what i've seen
 614 2011-06-09 02:23:12 noagendamarket has joined
 615 2011-06-09 02:23:40 <phantomcircuit> minus, yes as i said, hipster douchehats designed the protocol
 616 2011-06-09 02:23:48 <phantomcircuit> which is why it's absolutely terrible
 617 2011-06-09 02:24:08 <lfm> minus bitcoin on my machine is 1190m virtual and 297m resident
 618 2011-06-09 02:24:19 <minus> crazy
 619 2011-06-09 02:24:19 <tcatm> websocket should support a line-based and raw mode
 620 2011-06-09 02:24:29 <minus> 101k blocks
 621 2011-06-09 02:24:43 <phantomcircuit> minus, most of that is mmap'd bdb files though
 622 2011-06-09 02:24:48 <minus> tcatm: and how about some UDP aswell?
 623 2011-06-09 02:24:48 <lfm> minus why? 125 connections
 624 2011-06-09 02:24:56 <minus> nice
 625 2011-06-09 02:25:05 <minus> 17 here
 626 2011-06-09 02:25:07 <tcatm> minus: that's something different
 627 2011-06-09 02:25:12 <minus> gotta decrease that
 628 2011-06-09 02:26:08 <minus> tcatm: well if it had different modes anyway what would be the problem with supporting another transport protocol
 629 2011-06-09 02:27:12 <gmaxwell> udp often just means reinventing tcp (poorly) on top of udp... plus having a harder time getting past firewalls.
 630 2011-06-09 02:27:36 <minus> would be ideal for games though
 631 2011-06-09 02:27:55 <tcatm> UDP was a good idea a few decades ago. Now that servers can easily handle thousands of TCP connections it's not needed anymore
 632 2011-06-09 02:27:55 <minus> since there is webgl already
 633 2011-06-09 02:27:57 <lfm> um why?
 634 2011-06-09 02:28:09 <gmaxwell> There is a proposal for random data along with webrtc.
 635 2011-06-09 02:28:21 <lfm> oh i thot you meant udp would be good for games
 636 2011-06-09 02:28:35 <darbsllim> gmaxwell do you know much about the hardware dude?
 637 2011-06-09 02:28:45 <darbsllim> mining hardware
 638 2011-06-09 02:28:46 <minus> lfm: yes i do
 639 2011-06-09 02:28:59 <minus> you dont wanna run games over tcp
 640 2011-06-09 02:29:10 <gmaxwell> I aspire to know nothing.
 641 2011-06-09 02:29:11 DrewSJ has quit (Quit: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day)
 642 2011-06-09 02:29:19 <tcatm> sure you want. how else do you make sure the data arrives?
 643 2011-06-09 02:29:20 <lfm> minus so an unreliable portocol would be good for games?
 644 2011-06-09 02:29:29 <minus> yes
 645 2011-06-09 02:29:47 <minus> because not all data is vital to games
 646 2011-06-09 02:29:49 <gmaxwell> See my above comment re: webrtc.
 647 2011-06-09 02:29:49 <iz> yeah, tcp has too much overhead for games usually
 648 2011-06-09 02:30:08 <gmaxwell> iz: its not an overhead question, it's that reliablity deliver makes the worst case latency unbounded.
 649 2011-06-09 02:30:10 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, UDP can be combined with STUN to punch through multiple layers of uncooperative NAT
 650 2011-06-09 02:30:26 <lfm> I guess it would add some excitment to not know if you are communicating with the other players
 651 2011-06-09 02:30:29 <gmaxwell> So if the data is useless to you if it comes 10 seconds late.. tcp might waste a lot of effort getting data to you that is no longer useful.
 652 2011-06-09 02:30:55 bk128 has joined
 653 2011-06-09 02:31:03 <iz> gmaxwell: yes, that also (and moreso that)
 654 2011-06-09 02:31:27 <gmaxwell> TCP also suffers head of line blocking. e.g. a packet drop stalls the data behind it due to ordered delivery.
 655 2011-06-09 02:31:35 <gmaxwell> Solution: Use SCTP. ;)
 656 2011-06-09 02:31:35 <phantomcircuit> not to mention the current protocol basically just assumes shit gets where it sends it
 657 2011-06-09 02:31:39 <johnnympereira5> anyone have any issues with 4 video cards on one board? when install the driver it keeps crashing
 658 2011-06-09 02:31:46 <minus> SCTP?
 659 2011-06-09 02:31:49 <phantomcircuit> regardless of whether the connection drops after sending
 660 2011-06-09 02:32:10 <gmaxwell> minus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_Control_Transmission_Protocol
 661 2011-06-09 02:32:13 <iz> johnnympereira5: might be drawing too much power from the MB.. ask the ppl in #bitcoin-mining for more info tho
 662 2011-06-09 02:32:18 <lfm> johnnympereira5: it isnt supported on mswin.
 663 2011-06-09 02:32:18 <minus> well layer 3 protocols are usually hard to use new ones since they're on kernel level usually
 664 2011-06-09 02:32:57 <johnnympereira5> o really? so that max is 3 for windows?
 665 2011-06-09 02:33:03 <johnnympereira5> *the
 666 2011-06-09 02:33:18 fpgaminer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 667 2011-06-09 02:33:28 <lfm> or is it 4 max (inlcuding double cards?)?
 668 2011-06-09 02:33:42 <gmaxwell> minus: it's widely supported by OSes. :) Layer 4, to be pedantic.
 669 2011-06-09 02:33:47 fpgaminer has joined
 670 2011-06-09 02:33:55 <minus> yeah, just reading that
 671 2011-06-09 02:34:07 <minus> but doesnt seem to be popular
 672 2011-06-09 02:34:11 <johnnympereira5> linux is 8 right?
 673 2011-06-09 02:34:30 <johnnympereira5> thought i heard that somewhere lol
 674 2011-06-09 02:34:32 <lfm> dunno what limit is on linux but I cant immagine more than 8 anyway
 675 2011-06-09 02:34:42 <johnnympereira5> hahah ya that would be pretty crazy lol
 676 2011-06-09 02:35:04 <gmaxwell> minus: its newish.. slow adoption. I was kiding mostly in any case.
 677 2011-06-09 02:35:15 <gmaxwell> lfm: backplane. 0_o
 678 2011-06-09 02:35:17 <lfm> johnnympereira5: but artforz did /does run 4 double cards on single machines
 679 2011-06-09 02:35:17 <minus> it's from 2000 :P
 680 2011-06-09 02:35:24 <minus> i'd not call that new
 681 2011-06-09 02:35:43 <johnnympereira5> lfm: did he have it crossfired?
 682 2011-06-09 02:35:50 <gmaxwell> minus: And TCP is from ~1975..
 683 2011-06-09 02:35:55 <minus> haha yeah
 684 2011-06-09 02:36:00 <lfm> I dont think so, just separate cards
 685 2011-06-09 02:36:00 <gmaxwell> minus: look how long that took to gain traction. :)
 686 2011-06-09 02:36:10 <darbsllim> hmmm
 687 2011-06-09 02:36:10 <gmaxwell> IPX/SPX 4eva.
 688 2011-06-09 02:36:16 <darbsllim> wonder how you can run 4 cards on win
 689 2011-06-09 02:36:32 <lfm> big mother board
 690 2011-06-09 02:36:44 <johnnympereira5> lol
 691 2011-06-09 02:36:54 <minus> i wonder how anyone can run a dedicated miner on windows
 692 2011-06-09 02:37:10 <lfm> minus: thats a good question
 693 2011-06-09 02:37:10 normanrichards has joined
 694 2011-06-09 02:37:32 <minus> gpu driver crashed 3 times already here
 695 2011-06-09 02:37:34 <minus> today!
 696 2011-06-09 02:37:45 <darbsllim> lfm do you really know what your'e talking about or are you just guessing?
 697 2011-06-09 02:38:04 <darbsllim> what does the size of the motherboard have to do with how many video cards you can run if you said that win 7 doesn't support 4 cards?
 698 2011-06-09 02:38:33 <lfm> darbsllim: someone said there was a smaller limit for mswin gpu drivers. Im not sure now if it was 3 or 4 cards. must be 4 now I think of it
 699 2011-06-09 02:38:36 errydayimgenerat has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 700 2011-06-09 02:38:43 dx25 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 701 2011-06-09 02:39:12 <lfm> darbsllim: most would be two dual cards
 702 2011-06-09 02:39:47 lordmortis has joined
 703 2011-06-09 02:40:21 Counsel has joined
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 705 2011-06-09 02:41:37 lordmortis has joined
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 707 2011-06-09 02:44:01 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 708 2011-06-09 02:48:21 <Graet> iirc gorrectly win7 supports 4 gpus, whetherthat is 4 x 1 gpu cards or 2 x 2gpu cards
 709 2011-06-09 02:48:49 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 710 2011-06-09 02:49:10 <Graet> http://www.msi.com/product/mb/890FXA-GD70.html  << this is re3ccomended in #bitcoin-mining for 4 crad machines
 711 2011-06-09 02:49:34 henchan has joined
 712 2011-06-09 02:49:53 <psyshook> i'm trying to find documentation on this, but if i want to add additional rpcusers to bitcoind do i simply add an extra entry in bitcoin.conf?
 713 2011-06-09 02:50:10 dr_win has joined
 714 2011-06-09 02:50:49 <lfm> psyshook: nope, bitcoind only supprts one user/passowrd
 715 2011-06-09 02:51:18 <lfm> psyshook: you could have several using the same nume but no more names
 716 2011-06-09 02:52:37 <psyshook> thanks. i'm trying to figure out how i would create my own pool.
 717 2011-06-09 02:53:20 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 718 2011-06-09 02:53:29 <doublec> psyshook: you need to run some pool software
 719 2011-06-09 02:53:51 <doublec> which is basically an http proxy that keeps track of stats
 720 2011-06-09 02:54:18 vigilyn has joined
 721 2011-06-09 02:55:18 <psyshook> the mining clients will request work from the proxy then? would nginx be a good choice for the proxy?
 722 2011-06-09 02:55:31 <lfm> psyshook: for pools with separate name/passwords you need extra pool software
 723 2011-06-09 02:55:49 henchan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 724 2011-06-09 02:55:53 henchan has joined
 725 2011-06-09 02:56:13 <psyshook> i see how that might work then
 726 2011-06-09 02:56:15 <phantomcircuit> bah
 727 2011-06-09 02:56:20 <phantomcircuit> britcoin is finally migrated
 728 2011-06-09 02:56:41 toffoo has quit ()
 729 2011-06-09 02:57:39 <doublec> psyshook: yes the mining clients request from the proxy and it then forwards it on to the bicoin server
 730 2011-06-09 02:57:45 toffoo has joined
 731 2011-06-09 02:57:53 gruez has joined
 732 2011-06-09 02:57:54 <doublec> psyshook: the proxy can then use the authorization header to work out users
 733 2011-06-09 02:58:27 <doublec> psyshook: but much easier to use existing software like pushpool
 734 2011-06-09 02:58:28 <psyshook> thanks. i think i can get started from there. much appreciated
 735 2011-06-09 02:58:37 wolfspraul has joined
 736 2011-06-09 02:58:40 <psyshook> oh ok. i'll look into it
 737 2011-06-09 02:59:11 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 738 2011-06-09 03:00:46 <psyshook> which fork do you suggest?
 739 2011-06-09 03:01:04 <gruez> guys, I need your help
 740 2011-06-09 03:01:12 <gruez> is there a way to reboradcast a transaction?
 741 2011-06-09 03:01:13 <lfm> fork? pushpool is forked already?
 742 2011-06-09 03:01:50 <lfm> greuz ya but it aint easy, youd have to write some software
 743 2011-06-09 03:02:31 <psyshook> benares forked from jgarzik on github and first result from google was shanew
 744 2011-06-09 03:02:43 <doublec> psyshook: use jgarzik's
 745 2011-06-09 03:02:51 <lfm> gruez: if its just a slow txn it is being rebraodcast by default
 746 2011-06-09 03:03:19 <gruez> it's over 20 minutes now
 747 2011-06-09 03:03:22 <jgarzik> plenty of pushpool github forks
 748 2011-06-09 03:03:27 <jgarzik> forking is good :)
 749 2011-06-09 03:03:39 <lfm> oh! it wont be rebraodcast for anothe 10 min
 750 2011-06-09 03:03:44 <gruez> and nothing on bitcoincharts
 751 2011-06-09 03:03:45 <gruez> :(
 752 2011-06-09 03:04:22 <lfm> gruez: if it isnt accepted within the first 30 min it gets retried every 30 min
 753 2011-06-09 03:04:30 <gruez> oh
 754 2011-06-09 03:04:31 <gruez> ok
 755 2011-06-09 03:04:41 oxygenerator has joined
 756 2011-06-09 03:05:04 <lfm> gruez: it might only be due to some congestion. it will go thru eventually
 757 2011-06-09 03:05:41 hydrogenesis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 758 2011-06-09 03:06:43 <gruez> lfm: does it still retry if i closed the client?
 759 2011-06-09 03:06:47 <gruez> and restarted it
 760 2011-06-09 03:07:12 <lfm> not sure, I think so
 761 2011-06-09 03:07:18 mmoya has joined
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 763 2011-06-09 03:11:53 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 764 2011-06-09 03:12:02 <lfm> gruez: if you have the address you can look it up on bitcoinwatch.com
 765 2011-06-09 03:12:11 <gruez> i did
 766 2011-06-09 03:12:15 <gruez> coudln't find it
 767 2011-06-09 03:12:20 <gruez> that's why i was so worried
 768 2011-06-09 03:12:59 <lfm> well free txns can be dealayed up to a day or so if there is lots of activity
 769 2011-06-09 03:14:08 <gruez> delayed, probably
 770 2011-06-09 03:14:11 <GarrettB> gruez, lfm yes it continues to rebroadcast
 771 2011-06-09 03:14:13 <gruez> but that's for block inclusion
 772 2011-06-09 03:14:20 <GarrettB> tries at least once an hour, IIRC
 773 2011-06-09 03:14:29 <gruez> aww
 774 2011-06-09 03:14:37 minemoney has joined
 775 2011-06-09 03:14:38 <gruez> address i'm sending to only works for 1 hour
 776 2011-06-09 03:14:44 <gruez> depositing some mony
 777 2011-06-09 03:14:46 <gruez> :(
 778 2011-06-09 03:14:52 <lfm> GarrettB: k ty, I thpt it was 30 min but could be
 779 2011-06-09 03:15:09 <CIA-92> bitcoin: various * r2baf5e..d8ebf8 pushpool/ (util.c msg.c): (5 commits) http://tinyurl.com/3k2tc7h
 780 2011-06-09 03:16:00 bitlove has joined
 781 2011-06-09 03:16:04 <lfm> gruez: Ok what will they do with your money if it arrives late? you still get a credit?
 782 2011-06-09 03:18:33 <gruez> not sure
 783 2011-06-09 03:18:40 <gruez> i guess i'll have to ask the site owner
 784 2011-06-09 03:18:52 <gruez> to at least send the coins back to its originating address
 785 2011-06-09 03:18:52 <bitlove> I know chances are extremelly small, but what would happen if 2 clients generated the same address?
 786 2011-06-09 03:19:04 <gruez> they both get the money
 787 2011-06-09 03:19:07 <gruez> first one spends it wins
 788 2011-06-09 03:19:08 <bitlove> Each of them would be able to spend his own and each other's coins which are on that address?
 789 2011-06-09 03:19:16 <gruez> umm
 790 2011-06-09 03:19:17 <gruez> no
 791 2011-06-09 03:19:25 <gruez> only coins sent to that particular address
 792 2011-06-09 03:19:33 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 793 2011-06-09 03:19:36 <mtrlt> it's just a wallet both people have access to
 794 2011-06-09 03:19:38 bulletbill has joined
 795 2011-06-09 03:19:38 <SerajewelKS> gruez: that's what he said
 796 2011-06-09 03:19:43 <mtrlt> so the first one to spend the money, wins
 797 2011-06-09 03:19:44 <mtrlt> :p
 798 2011-06-09 03:19:54 <SerajewelKS> mtrlt: well, a wallet contains many addresses
 799 2011-06-09 03:20:10 <gruez> SerajewelKS: i thought he meant access to ALL the coins in the wallet
 800 2011-06-09 03:20:11 <gruez> :P
 801 2011-06-09 03:20:16 <SerajewelKS> both people would be able to spend the coins sent to that address.  that's pretty much the summary.
 802 2011-06-09 03:20:20 knotwork has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 803 2011-06-09 03:20:21 <mtrlt> SerajewelKS: but a bitcoin wallet is more like many real-world wallets :p
 804 2011-06-09 03:20:26 <SerajewelKS> gruez: he said "which are on that address"
 805 2011-06-09 03:20:39 <bitlove> and would the private keys for both instances that happened to generate the same address be also identical?
 806 2011-06-09 03:20:45 <lfm> bitlove:but as you say extreamly unlikely, more chance that random attomic fluxuations will manifest a bowling ball ten feet above you head and drop and kill you
 807 2011-06-09 03:20:45 <mtrlt> bitlove: not necessarily.
 808 2011-06-09 03:20:50 <SerajewelKS> mtrlt: sure, but when you start calling bitcoin addresses wallets you are mixing up bitcoint terminology
 809 2011-06-09 03:21:04 <mtrlt> bitlove: because private keys are 256 bits but the addresses have a 160bit hash of the public key.
 810 2011-06-09 03:21:10 <SerajewelKS> bitcoin*
 811 2011-06-09 03:21:11 <mtrlt> SerajewelKS: yea, my fault :)
 812 2011-06-09 03:21:21 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 813 2011-06-09 03:21:36 glicth-mod has joined
 814 2011-06-09 03:22:19 <bitlove> Yeah, that's why I thought it's much more likely for this kind of collision to happen than having someone bruteforce someone's private key
 815 2011-06-09 03:22:49 <lfm> bitlove in fact I will sell you insurance against the chance of someone else randomly generating one of your addresses. how much do you want to pay for the insurance?
 816 2011-06-09 03:23:05 <gmaxwell> damnit. I want to sell that insurance.
 817 2011-06-09 03:23:06 <bitlove> :D
 818 2011-06-09 03:23:13 <mtrlt> :D
 819 2011-06-09 03:23:19 <doublec> insurance bidding war!
 820 2011-06-09 03:23:53 yrralb has joined
 821 2011-06-09 03:24:11 <gruez> SerajewelKS: reading comprention fail
 822 2011-06-09 03:24:12 <gruez> :p
 823 2011-06-09 03:24:21 <mtrlt> no bids :(
 824 2011-06-09 03:24:27 <SerajewelKS> gruez: haha
 825 2011-06-09 03:24:37 <lfm> no buyers
 826 2011-06-09 03:24:46 <SerajewelKS> lfm: dude there would be so much fraud...
 827 2011-06-09 03:24:53 <mtrlt> :D
 828 2011-06-09 03:25:12 <bitlove> Still I'd love to be able to better manage my addresses in the client, like seeing the balance on each and being able to select which ones I'm sending from.
 829 2011-06-09 03:25:19 <lfm> SerajewelKS: ya I spoze there would be
 830 2011-06-09 03:25:22 <SerajewelKS> lfm: "oh no, *someone* spent all my money!"
 831 2011-06-09 03:25:33 <bitlove> (ofcourse not because I'm afraid of holding too many on one address)
 832 2011-06-09 03:25:41 <gruez> bitlove: that would be nice
 833 2011-06-09 03:25:49 <gruez> being able to pick and choose which inputs to use
 834 2011-06-09 03:26:02 karnac has joined
 835 2011-06-09 03:26:09 <gruez> a simple listbox + buttons should be able to do it
 836 2011-06-09 03:26:10 NickelBot has joined
 837 2011-06-09 03:26:41 <lfm> gruez: like those btc over there are much nicer! I want to spend them, not these ugly ones!
 838 2011-06-09 03:26:55 <gmaxwell> "Of course, damnit, the one guy I manage to sell the collision insurance to is the one guy with the infinite improbability drive"
 839 2011-06-09 03:27:12 <gruez> use the ones with little history for drugs
 840 2011-06-09 03:27:16 <gruez> :p
 841 2011-06-09 03:27:30 lebish_zz is now known as lebish
 842 2011-06-09 03:27:41 <lfm> gruez: oh so you dont like paper money?
 843 2011-06-09 03:28:23 <gruez> i like my payments in pennies
 844 2011-06-09 03:28:28 <gruez> preferably copper ones
 845 2011-06-09 03:29:04 <lfm> let me clean up your BTC for you, send me 99BTC with that horrid drug taint and Ill send you fresh new ones
 846 2011-06-09 03:29:12 <lfm> 98 fresh new ones
 847 2011-06-09 03:29:13 <gruez> lol
 848 2011-06-09 03:29:14 <JFK911> i can use this service
 849 2011-06-09 03:29:19 <bitlove> btw, does the client pick which coins to spend based on how big (data size) of the transaction would be, or there's another important factor, or it's almost random?
 850 2011-06-09 03:29:21 <JFK911> sign me up
 851 2011-06-09 03:29:54 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 852 2011-06-09 03:30:23 <lfm> bitlove: yes
 853 2011-06-09 03:30:46 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
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 856 2011-06-09 03:32:32 <Kireji> omg mtgox live on a mobile shows a picture of the servvice with bitc at 8 or 9
 857 2011-06-09 03:32:39 <Kireji> ffs heart attack
 858 2011-06-09 03:33:05 <Kireji> ;;bc,mtgox
 859 2011-06-09 03:33:06 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":31.9099,"low":22.8897,"vol":109447,"buy":26.9211,"sell":27.3899,"last":27.3879}}
 860 2011-06-09 03:33:38 Castor_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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 862 2011-06-09 03:34:43 <lfm> Kireji: and it could fall about that fast
 863 2011-06-09 03:34:50 <bob2> what jacked the price up so much 30 hours ago?
 864 2011-06-09 03:35:06 <lfm> bob2: some more fools buying btc
 865 2011-06-09 03:35:47 <mtrlt> yea don't they understand it's a pyramid scheme!
 866 2011-06-09 03:35:58 <heistplay> what means pushpool 'upstream_result' = Y ?
 867 2011-06-09 03:36:15 <lfm> y meas yes
 868 2011-06-09 03:36:23 <Zarutian> ;;bc,blocks
 869 2011-06-09 03:36:24 <gribble> 129494
 870 2011-06-09 03:36:32 <GarrettB> Kireji: lol
 871 2011-06-09 03:36:36 Counsel has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
 872 2011-06-09 03:36:47 <heistplay> yes but what is upstream result?
 873 2011-06-09 03:38:45 <lfm> bitcoind getdifficulty says 567269.53016242 now but ;;bc,diff says 567358.22457067 griible is still on the old version I guess
 874 2011-06-09 03:39:56 <jgarzik> heistplay: bitcoind is upstream of pushpool
 875 2011-06-09 03:40:20 <heistplay> that means that a block was found?
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 880 2011-06-09 03:43:32 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
 881 2011-06-09 03:43:57 <boboing> hi... does this message "pushpoold[30884]: PROOF-OF-WORK found" means that I've found a block ?
 882 2011-06-09 03:44:43 Kurtov has joined
 883 2011-06-09 03:44:57 <lfm> seems we dont have pushpoo experts here right now
 884 2011-06-09 03:45:02 <lfm> pushpool
 885 2011-06-09 03:45:55 sender555 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 886 2011-06-09 03:46:08 <lfm> boboing: cuz "proof of work" applies to both blocks found and shares found
 887 2011-06-09 03:46:10 sender555 has joined
 888 2011-06-09 03:46:23 <yrralb> boboing: my best guess is that it means someone found a share
 889 2011-06-09 03:46:48 deadmause has joined
 890 2011-06-09 03:47:37 <boboing> thing is, a share is found every 10 seconds, but this message on syslog does not show everytime someone finds a block
 891 2011-06-09 03:48:16 <lfm> well it might be a block then, wtg
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 896 2011-06-09 03:48:32 <boboing> everytime I have a "Y Y" on the pushpool share's log, I've the PROOF-OF-WORK found message on syslog
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 900 2011-06-09 03:49:06 <lfm> boboing: whats your total mhash/sec then?
 901 2011-06-09 03:49:33 <boboing> not sure, I'm not counting it
 902 2011-06-09 03:49:41 <boboing> im on testnet
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 904 2011-06-09 03:49:59 <lfm> ah! ok ya testnet you should get block pretty easy
 905 2011-06-09 03:50:37 <boboing> yeah, thing is, i've been running it for hours, and my balance is still 0. Then I found these message on the pushpool logs, and would like some confirmation that it's related to finding a block
 906 2011-06-09 03:51:08 <lfm> boboing: ya it doesnt go in the balance till 120 blocks later
 907 2011-06-09 03:51:15 <boboing> hmm I see
 908 2011-06-09 03:51:56 <lfm> so it like a day on main net
 909 2011-06-09 03:52:06 <boboing> yeah i got it...
 910 2011-06-09 03:52:10 <boboing> testnet will be much slower
 911 2011-06-09 03:52:14 <boboing> thanks for the info
 912 2011-06-09 03:52:29 <lfm> actually testnet can be slower or faster, depends
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 914 2011-06-09 03:53:48 <lfm> boboing: for testnet Average interval last 144 blocks: 6.83 min
 915 2011-06-09 03:53:55 <lfm> so its faster I think
 916 2011-06-09 03:56:23 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
 917 2011-06-09 03:56:38 <lfm> ya main net Average interval last 144 blocks: 7.20 min
 918 2011-06-09 04:00:54 <benlake> maybe this question will find a different crowd now... I moved my data dir created by the OSX 0.3.21 client to a flash drive and have been running there for two weeks; works great. I put the flash drive in a linux machine, fired up 0.3.22 and I get some errors saying I need to do a "DB recovery" and ultimately failure ensues. I can post the exact errors if anyone cares to converse about this.
 919 2011-06-09 04:01:06 <benlake> previous group blew it off
 920 2011-06-09 04:01:34 <lfm> benlake: prolly due to different versions od bdb
 921 2011-06-09 04:01:34 <benlake> also, I moved the flash drive back, as-is, no restore or anything, to the OSX client and it continued to work.
 922 2011-06-09 04:01:52 <benlake> lfm: oh that the client was built against?
 923 2011-06-09 04:02:04 <lfm> osx uses a newwer version, older version doesnt understand it
 924 2011-06-09 04:02:15 <GarrettB> benlake: dear god do not trust your flash drive with your wallet
 925 2011-06-09 04:02:17 <GarrettB> it will end in tears
 926 2011-06-09 04:02:20 <GarrettB> backups everywhere
 927 2011-06-09 04:02:39 <benlake> GarrettB: yeah I have backups
 928 2011-06-09 04:02:49 <benlake> it is an IronKey, so not a $5 device
 929 2011-06-09 04:03:01 <benlake> I have two actually.
 930 2011-06-09 04:03:14 <lfm> I find flash drives to be quite reliable. of course I am carefull to always dismount them before pulling them out and stuff
 931 2011-06-09 04:03:58 <benlake> lfm: well that makes perfect sense then. Strange, but perfect sense
 932 2011-06-09 04:04:19 <benlake> a little disheartened by the portability.
 933 2011-06-09 04:04:34 <benlake> or I should say, lack-there-of
 934 2011-06-09 04:04:46 <lfm> benlake: I think you might be able to rebuild the linux one with new libs also and make them compatible but, ya, have some backups
 935 2011-06-09 04:06:25 deadmause has quit (Quit: deadmause)
 936 2011-06-09 04:06:59 <lfm> benlake: also it should be ok if you just move the wallet.dat file with current clients
 937 2011-06-09 04:08:01 <benlake> lfm: ohhh right, and leave the block db behind
 938 2011-06-09 04:08:27 deadmause has joined
 939 2011-06-09 04:08:34 <benlake> duh ok, fair enough. Can I drop a walled.dat file in an empty bitcoin dir and it'll pick it up and start downloading the blocks?
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 943 2011-06-09 04:08:52 <lfm> benlake: yup, that should work fine
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 946 2011-06-09 04:12:10 <Guest53122> hi how come it takes a long time to download blocks?
 947 2011-06-09 04:13:00 henchan has left ()
 948 2011-06-09 04:13:02 <GarrettB> Guest53122: it has to verify them, in blocks of 500
 949 2011-06-09 04:13:08 <benlake> lfm: thank you sir, much more helpful :P
 950 2011-06-09 04:13:08 <GarrettB> on older/slower computers, that can take very long
 951 2011-06-09 04:13:15 <GarrettB> alternatively, you just are connected to slow peers
 952 2011-06-09 04:13:38 <Guest53122> oh well it just takes like days to download the blocks then when its about finished my system crashes
 953 2011-06-09 04:14:03 <Guest53122> and i get this error "Error loading blkindex.dat"
 954 2011-06-09 04:14:04 <Namegduf> Guest53122: You have connection issues to other peers. Also already downloaded blocks will be kept.
 955 2011-06-09 04:14:06 <Namegduf> Ah.
 956 2011-06-09 04:14:22 <Guest53122> so i delete that and starts again.. and does same
 957 2011-06-09 04:14:28 <sacarlson> anyone ever get error from web rpc unable to connect error port 8332?  from jsonRPCClient in php,  but when I just reload the page it works
 958 2011-06-09 04:15:51 <sacarlson> must be having problem on this line in jsonRPCCClient if ($fp = fopen($this->url, 'r', false, $context)) {
 959 2011-06-09 04:16:58 zibbo has joined
 960 2011-06-09 04:17:36 <sacarlson> i'm going to just add a work around that if on fail to connect wait 2 secounds and try a few more times
 961 2011-06-09 04:18:11 <sacarlson> unless I  can change some timeout someplace without adding any code?
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 970 2011-06-09 04:25:29 <sacarlson> Guest53122: you might try download a copy of the latest or not as old blkindex.dat and blk0001.dat instead of geting it from the bitcoin network.  for me it takes as long as 8 - 10 hours or more to get those files from bitcoin net
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 972 2011-06-09 04:27:08 <sacarlson> on a fresh install of bitcoin that is or when I corrupt those files and I need to delete them
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 976 2011-06-09 04:30:55 <Guest53122> sacarlson: ok thanks. those files get corrupted often!
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 978 2011-06-09 04:31:31 <Guest53122> too bad it doesnt buffer large amounts and write it all at once
 979 2011-06-09 04:31:59 <sacarlson> Guest53122: well for me they have since I develop my own versions of bitcoin they sometimes get mest up if I run from one version that conflicts with another versions contents
 980 2011-06-09 04:32:28 LightRider is now known as afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|LightRider
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 983 2011-06-09 04:33:23 <sacarlson> Guest53122: the files are distrubuted someplace but I just keep a personal backup of them on my local network to save time
 984 2011-06-09 04:33:47 <Guest53122> sacarlson: yea i guess il have to back it up about half way
 985 2011-06-09 04:34:14 <sacarlson> Guest53122: or just download it in a fraction of the time
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 993 2011-06-09 04:49:49 <lfm> Guest53122: Most people dont have much trouble with currupted DBs unless they are messing aorund with them
 994 2011-06-09 04:50:26 <Guest53122> lfm: didnt touch them only remove the certain file when it gave that message
 995 2011-06-09 04:51:47 <lfm> Guest53122: ya I spoze it could happen if you had a power fail or system lock up or something even tho the DBs are trying to account for such things
 996 2011-06-09 04:53:10 Juffo-Wup has joined
 997 2011-06-09 04:53:19 <Guest53122> lfm: yea thats what happens.. must freeze up during a write
 998 2011-06-09 04:54:04 <lfm> or some other program clobbered some memory or file or something
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1029 2011-06-09 05:23:47 <Neskia> can anyone point me to where i can figure out how to configure bitcoind on linux? the wx bitcoin wrapper doesnt seem to do anything... never shows the counted blocks and so forth.. i'm sure i have to configure it or bitcoind?
1030 2011-06-09 05:23:51 Juffo-Wup has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1031 2011-06-09 05:27:07 <sacarlson> Neskia: linux is a broad term maybe state what destro you are using to start and what version of bitcoin and distribution method you used to install it
1032 2011-06-09 05:27:28 <drazak> Neskia: just run diablowminer
1033 2011-06-09 05:27:37 dissipate has joined
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1035 2011-06-09 05:27:37 dissipate has joined
1036 2011-06-09 05:27:50 <gmaxwell> drazak: ?!
1037 2011-06-09 05:27:56 <Neskia> drazak, that is kinda... pointless?
1038 2011-06-09 05:27:58 dissipate has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1039 2011-06-09 05:28:00 <gmaxwell> Neskia: new users sometimes have initial connectivity problems.
1040 2011-06-09 05:28:04 <Neskia> and running gentoo.
1041 2011-06-09 05:28:08 <gmaxwell> Neskia: are you running 0.22?
1042 2011-06-09 05:28:11 <Neskia> its actually my roomies.
1043 2011-06-09 05:28:17 <Neskia> not sure.. i'll check
1044 2011-06-09 05:28:43 <gmaxwell> try starting the wx client with "-dnsseed" it's a hidden option and see if it gets connections faster with that.
1045 2011-06-09 05:31:38 Test007 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1046 2011-06-09 05:32:25 <Neskia> ok
1047 2011-06-09 05:33:25 <gmaxwell> Neskia: report back however it goes please.
1048 2011-06-09 05:35:11 Props has joined
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1052 2011-06-09 05:38:28 Moonies has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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1054 2011-06-09 05:39:08 <Neskia> he was using some older version.. forgot which, didnt get a chance to try with -dnsseed before he unmasked 0.3.22 and updated
1055 2011-06-09 05:39:23 <Neskia> now getting rpc.statd error when running the service
1056 2011-06-09 05:40:06 <Neskia> so hes trying to resolve that.. which ran in to a block with portmap.. -snorts- ahh gentoo
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1061 2011-06-09 05:44:46 Schematografter is now known as Moonies
1062 2011-06-09 05:44:48 <Neskia> and another error :p
1063 2011-06-09 05:45:54 Diablo-D3 has joined
1064 2011-06-09 05:47:17 <sacarlson> with some research I've added timeout => 3.1  to this line in jsonRPCCClient, so far working not sure it's made any improvement yet since it failed intermitently $opts = array ('http' => array (
1065 2011-06-09 05:47:17 <sacarlson> 							'method'  => 'POST',
1066 2011-06-09 05:47:17 <sacarlson>                                                         'timeout' => 3.1,
1067 2011-06-09 05:47:17 <sacarlson> 							'header'  => 'Content-type: application/json',
1068 2011-06-09 05:47:17 <sacarlson> 							'content' => $request
1069 2011-06-09 05:47:18 <sacarlson> 							));
1070 2011-06-09 05:50:03 nefario has left ()
1071 2011-06-09 05:51:10 <Jesque> How old is bitcoin?
1072 2011-06-09 05:51:47 <gmaxwell> Feb 2009
1073 2011-06-09 05:52:59 <zooko> citation needed
1074 2011-06-09 05:53:58 <zooko> Because I can't remember what I read in January 2009 that made me write "recent effort to actually implement something"...
1075 2011-06-09 05:54:01 <zooko> http://insecure.tahoe-lafs.org/uri/URI:DIR2-RO:ixqhc4kdbjxc7o65xjnveoewym:5x6lwoxghrd5rxhwunzavft2qygfkt27oj3fbxlq4c6p45z5uneq/blog.html#[[Decentralized%20Money]]
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1079 2011-06-09 05:58:04 <doublec> citation is the genesis block maybe?
1080 2011-06-09 05:58:07 <doublec> 3/jan/2009
1081 2011-06-09 05:58:25 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1082 2011-06-09 05:58:28 Guest14939 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1083 2011-06-09 05:58:57 <gmaxwell> zooko: there have been other crypto currency proposals...
1084 2011-06-09 05:59:56 Schematografter is now known as Moonies
1085 2011-06-09 06:00:01 <gmaxwell> though hm. I guess the genesis block trumps me!
1086 2011-06-09 06:07:47 <Raccoon> we need to convince everyone to stop mining for 2016 blocks
1087 2011-06-09 06:07:47 <Neskia> something about cannot do something if something else provides 'net'
1088 2011-06-09 06:07:58 <Raccoon> so we can lower the difficulty again
1089 2011-06-09 06:08:03 <Neskia> who cares Raccoon
1090 2011-06-09 06:08:03 <Neskia> :p
1091 2011-06-09 06:08:16 <Neskia> its supposed to be 6 blocks an hour
1092 2011-06-09 06:08:18 <Neskia> no faster, no slower
1093 2011-06-09 06:08:24 <Raccoon> right
1094 2011-06-09 06:08:28 Hachima has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1095 2011-06-09 06:08:54 <Raccoon> so if we start mining at half speed for a month, the difficulty should logically halve, right?
1096 2011-06-09 06:09:07 Eremes2 has joined
1097 2011-06-09 06:09:12 <Neskia> and for a half month every transaction would take 20 minutes instead of 10 :p
1098 2011-06-09 06:09:26 <Raccoon> nobody uses bitcoin network anyway
1099 2011-06-09 06:09:30 <Raccoon> all transactions go through mtgox
1100 2011-06-09 06:09:34 <Raccoon> :p
1101 2011-06-09 06:10:35 <Raccoon> i do think the difficulty adjust duration is much to high though, for that reason.
1102 2011-06-09 06:10:42 <Raccoon> if deepbit suddenly went away
1103 2011-06-09 06:11:25 <Raccoon> i'd opt for every 144 blocks.  daily adjustment.
1104 2011-06-09 06:13:18 <Neskia> ....
1105 2011-06-09 06:13:21 sacarlson has joined
1106 2011-06-09 06:13:34 <Raccoon> even a block solve every 60 seconds instead of 600 seconds.
1107 2011-06-09 06:13:47 <Raccoon> drop the reward to 5BTC
1108 2011-06-09 06:14:14 RazielZ has joined
1109 2011-06-09 06:14:30 <lfm> Raccoon: a lot more collisions then
1110 2011-06-09 06:14:30 <Raccoon> like seriously... what merchant wants to detain a customer for 10 minutes to confirm they paid for their hamburger
1111 2011-06-09 06:14:36 <Raccoon> not many.
1112 2011-06-09 06:14:45 <lfm> 10 times as many
1113 2011-06-09 06:14:51 <Raccoon> not likely.
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1117 2011-06-09 06:15:38 <lfm> Raccoon: Id like to see your net simulation for evidence of that assertion
1118 2011-06-09 06:15:49 * Raccoon shrugs.
1119 2011-06-09 06:16:28 <Raccoon> "please pull forward to the second window so we may denver boot your car for 10 minutes."
1120 2011-06-09 06:17:25 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1122 2011-06-09 06:17:25 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
1123 2011-06-09 06:17:34 <Namegduf> Raccoon: Not a problem, and five minutes isn't fast enough for that.
1124 2011-06-09 06:17:46 <Namegduf> There's a better solution to instant transactions.
1125 2011-06-09 06:17:54 <lfm> and the merchant should detain the customer for 6 blocks / 1 hour actually for proper confidence they aare not double spending
1126 2011-06-09 06:17:57 <Raccoon> i said 60 seconds
1127 2011-06-09 06:18:03 <Namegduf> Still.
1128 2011-06-09 06:18:13 <Namegduf> Not good enough for stores.
1129 2011-06-09 06:18:20 <Namegduf> We have instant transaction solutions.
1130 2011-06-09 06:18:29 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1131 2011-06-09 06:18:33 <Namegduf> All you need to do is trust that the transaction is from someone who won't double spend.
1132 2011-06-09 06:18:50 <Namegduf> So you use proxies.
1133 2011-06-09 06:19:00 <lfm> yup if you want instant txn you both need account at the same "bank" like mybitcoin or mtgox
1134 2011-06-09 06:19:04 <Namegduf> Nope.
1135 2011-06-09 06:19:11 <Namegduf> Don't even need that.
1136 2011-06-09 06:19:23 <Namegduf> You just need to send straight from mybitcoin or MtGox to an arbitrary bitcoin address
1137 2011-06-09 06:19:33 <Namegduf> And trust that it'll clear and neither of those two are going to screw you
1138 2011-06-09 06:19:34 Scorpion_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1139 2011-06-09 06:19:42 <Namegduf> Which is entirely reasonable.
1140 2011-06-09 06:19:50 <Namegduf> Hell, I've done it with ClearCoin.
1141 2011-06-09 06:19:51 <lfm> you cant tell by the address where it came from
1142 2011-06-09 06:20:03 <Raccoon> McDonalds is not privvy to source of your funds
1143 2011-06-09 06:20:05 <Namegduf> You can tell by the receiving address you use.
1144 2011-06-09 06:20:16 <Namegduf> Which is how that's solved for BTC transactions.
1145 2011-06-09 06:20:24 <Raccoon> ?
1146 2011-06-09 06:20:24 <Namegduf> You generate a destination address per payer
1147 2011-06-09 06:20:58 <lfm> so how do you know you have been payed again?
1148 2011-06-09 06:21:10 <Namegduf> You trust that MtGox is not going to fuck you over
1149 2011-06-09 06:21:20 <Raccoon> how do you trust that MtGox is involved?
1150 2011-06-09 06:21:44 <lfm> mtgox wont credit your account till they receive and confirm the txn from whoever either
1151 2011-06-09 06:21:49 <Namegduf> Static sending address, possibly?
1152 2011-06-09 06:21:53 <Namegduf> lfm: ARGH.
1153 2011-06-09 06:21:56 <Namegduf> LET ME SAY IT AGAIN.
1154 2011-06-09 06:22:01 <Namegduf> But *slower*.
1155 2011-06-09 06:22:05 <Namegduf> Alright?
1156 2011-06-09 06:22:17 <Neskia> gmaxwell, what front end is used for 0.3.22 now? still he wxbitcoin?
1157 2011-06-09 06:22:21 <Neskia> still the*
1158 2011-06-09 06:22:26 <Namegduf> You're an untrusted dude, buying from someone. You want it to go instantly, but it takes an hour to clear.
1159 2011-06-09 06:22:34 <Raccoon> Namegduf: that doesn't sound like bitcoin anyway.  that sounds like a website.
1160 2011-06-09 06:22:36 <wumpus> lfm: you can't really say from the transaction whether mtgox sent it
1161 2011-06-09 06:22:43 <wumpus> Neskia: yes, still wx
1162 2011-06-09 06:23:05 <Raccoon> wumpus: that's what lfm was trying to get at.
1163 2011-06-09 06:23:07 <wumpus> Neskia: qt will probably be integrated soon
1164 2011-06-09 06:23:10 <Namegduf> Raccoon: You don't understand it. You're interrupting me explaining it so you can.
1165 2011-06-09 06:23:19 <Namegduf> You're an untrusted dude, buying from someone. You want it to go instantly, but it takes an hour to clear.
1166 2011-06-09 06:23:24 <Namegduf> Add to the system: A bunch of trusted payment proxies.
1167 2011-06-09 06:23:34 <Namegduf> You pay into an account with them. This IS slow.
1168 2011-06-09 06:23:56 <Namegduf> You can then spend instantly from them, to anyone willing to take them, to trust them.
1169 2011-06-09 06:23:56 <wumpus> Neskia: (I'm the person writing the qt frontend)
1170 2011-06-09 06:23:56 <Raccoon> might as well just cash out to paypal.
1171 2011-06-09 06:24:05 errydayimgenerat has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1172 2011-06-09 06:24:10 <Raccoon> or let paypal draw the funds from my bitcoin wallet
1173 2011-06-09 06:24:17 <Raccoon> and pay with my paypal visa
1174 2011-06-09 06:24:19 <Namegduf> PayPal is not comparable because it can only pay to other PP accounts.
1175 2011-06-09 06:24:25 <Namegduf> Debit cards *are*.
1176 2011-06-09 06:24:37 <lfm> oh ya, just like make an account with a "bank". I call it bank you call it "trusted payment proxy"
1177 2011-06-09 06:24:38 <Neskia> ahh lovely, i do like qt alot better than wx
1178 2011-06-09 06:24:47 <Namegduf> lfm: Sure, that works.
1179 2011-06-09 06:24:55 <Neskia> so... after running the bitcoind, run wxbitcoin?
1180 2011-06-09 06:25:00 <Namegduf> lfm: Existing banks are non-instant as hell and take even *longer*
1181 2011-06-09 06:25:16 <Namegduf> And they don't exist to provide trusted payments
1182 2011-06-09 06:25:17 <Raccoon> naa.  banks are instant.
1183 2011-06-09 06:25:22 <Raccoon> they just like to renig a lot
1184 2011-06-09 06:25:29 <Raccoon> suddenly everything gets reversaled
1185 2011-06-09 06:25:45 <wumpus> Neskia: just run the gui, it start the client in-process
1186 2011-06-09 06:25:57 <Namegduf> The key thing is, this would work, works fine, doesn't need you to make blocks take 1/10th the processing power to make.
1187 2011-06-09 06:25:59 <lfm> Namegduf: well if you BOTH have account at mybitcoin NOW it will make instant payments
1188 2011-06-09 06:26:19 <Namegduf> lfm: Yes, I know this. Did you think I didn't?
1189 2011-06-09 06:26:34 <Namegduf> lfm: I then went on and explained that if you trusted mybitcoin, you didn't NEED an account.
1190 2011-06-09 06:26:38 <lfm> so it is a solution of sorts
1191 2011-06-09 06:26:43 <Neskia> wumpus, which gui? :p
1192 2011-06-09 06:26:45 <Namegduf> You just needed to trust that mybitcoin wouldn't double spend attack you.
1193 2011-06-09 06:26:55 <Neskia> what command.. i'm only carrying messages sadly
1194 2011-06-09 06:27:03 <Neskia> gentoo linux mind you
1195 2011-06-09 06:27:27 <wumpus> Neskia: "bitcoin".. I don't think it's been renamed to wxbitcoin yet
1196 2011-06-09 06:27:40 <Namegduf> At any rate, no, BTC doesn't need hacks doing to make payments faster.
1197 2011-06-09 06:27:43 <Raccoon> i want to make a game, with double spending, but i'm not sure how
1198 2011-06-09 06:27:48 <Namegduf> There's better solutions available which allow for instant payments.
1199 2011-06-09 06:27:55 <lfm> Namegduf: are you saying if the merchant doesnt have a mybitcoin account it would still be instant? How do you know a payment is comeing from mybitcoin?
1200 2011-06-09 06:28:06 <Raccoon> two players send me 1 BTC each.  then, i double-spend the 2 BTC back to both of them.
1201 2011-06-09 06:28:17 <Namegduf> lfm: Since mybitcoin is a trusted entity in this design, you could just communicate with them.
1202 2011-06-09 06:28:22 <Raccoon> then, by luck of the numbers, one of the two eventually wins both BTC
1203 2011-06-09 06:28:26 <Namegduf> lfm: They could also have a static sending address.
1204 2011-06-09 06:28:27 <Raccoon> how would I accomplish this?
1205 2011-06-09 06:28:38 <Namegduf> Via sending all money paid into them to said address
1206 2011-06-09 06:28:42 <Namegduf> And always sending from that
1207 2011-06-09 06:28:55 <Namegduf> Which is a nice easy way to prove identity
1208 2011-06-09 06:28:59 <wumpus> they would be leaking information if they provided information about their sending addresses to anyone
1209 2011-06-09 06:29:06 <Namegduf> Why would it?
1210 2011-06-09 06:29:11 <lfm> theoreticcly I spoze, not sure if you could really do that NOW.
1211 2011-06-09 06:29:14 <Namegduf> More so than usual, I mean?
1212 2011-06-09 06:29:14 ddrj has joined
1213 2011-06-09 06:29:21 <Namegduf> lfm: Sure you could. Not even hard.
1214 2011-06-09 06:29:32 <Namegduf> Make a new receiving address, write it down
1215 2011-06-09 06:29:42 <Namegduf> Send all BTC you get to it, then whenever you spend your BTC
1216 2011-06-09 06:29:45 <Namegduf> It'll come from that address
1217 2011-06-09 06:29:56 <lfm> ya, just you gotta talk mybitcoin itno it I guess
1218 2011-06-09 06:30:04 <Namegduf> Yep.
1219 2011-06-09 06:30:15 <dpkp> Namegduf: but how would the merchant map the payment to a payee?  if the address is constant and it is sent via third-party trusted proxy?
1220 2011-06-09 06:30:29 <Namegduf> dpkp: Receiving address, which is how payees are currently identified.
1221 2011-06-09 06:30:32 <lfm> dpkp: payee is mybitcoin
1222 2011-06-09 06:30:41 <dpkp> sorry, payor
1223 2011-06-09 06:30:53 <Namegduf> You don't know who sent you a payment by the source address in Bitcoin, too hard and messy
1224 2011-06-09 06:31:03 <Namegduf> You know who sent you a payment via which receiving address it arrived at
1225 2011-06-09 06:31:06 <lfm> dpkp you oh ya payer is mybitcoin
1226 2011-06-09 06:31:10 <Namegduf> That is how the exchanges work right now
1227 2011-06-09 06:31:26 <Namegduf> They make a new receiving address for each person paying in, they don't ask you for your source address
1228 2011-06-09 06:31:38 <dpkp> Namegduf: right, but you're talking about paying out
1229 2011-06-09 06:31:38 <Raccoon> could someone explain how to intentionally double spend?
1230 2011-06-09 06:31:53 <Namegduf> dpkp: No?
1231 2011-06-09 06:31:57 <dpkp> Namegduf: using mybitcoin to pay out instantly?
1232 2011-06-09 06:32:01 <lfm> Raccoon: now why would we do that?
1233 2011-06-09 06:32:25 Eremes2 has quit ()
1234 2011-06-09 06:32:28 <Raccoon> for 2 reasons.
1235 2011-06-09 06:32:32 <Raccoon> to understand the issue better
1236 2011-06-09 06:32:32 <Namegduf> dpkp: I am talking about paying into mybitcoin, mybitcoin merging all money paid into them (or enough for day to day stuff) onto one address
1237 2011-06-09 06:32:36 <Raccoon> and to make a roulette game of it
1238 2011-06-09 06:32:47 <Namegduf> Then paying from that address to a given receiving address on request.
1239 2011-06-09 06:32:49 <Raccoon> a bitcoin lottery if you willl
1240 2011-06-09 06:32:59 <Namegduf> The receiving address knows it's coming from mybitcoin and trusts them not to double spend
1241 2011-06-09 06:33:01 <lfm> Raccoon: first bitcoin is designed to stop double spending. if you wait the 6 blocks you can be quite confident it is not double spent
1242 2011-06-09 06:33:07 <Namegduf> So the transaction can be immediately considered good.
1243 2011-06-09 06:33:12 <dpkp> Namegduf: i get that part
1244 2011-06-09 06:33:21 <Namegduf> They know who ASKED bitcoin to send it
1245 2011-06-09 06:33:26 <Namegduf> Based on who they gave that receiving address to.
1246 2011-06-09 06:33:28 <dpkp> Namegduf: but how?
1247 2011-06-09 06:33:31 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1248 2011-06-09 06:33:34 <Namegduf> Consider receiving addresses invoice IDs.
1249 2011-06-09 06:33:37 <dpkp> ok
1250 2011-06-09 06:33:49 <dpkp> got it
1251 2011-06-09 06:34:00 <Namegduf> That's how stuff working in bitcoin works now
1252 2011-06-09 06:34:00 <Raccoon> lfm: i assume double spending is just sending multiple spend packets at the same time using the same bitcoin address, even when empty?
1253 2011-06-09 06:34:05 karnac has joined
1254 2011-06-09 06:34:29 <Namegduf> Raccoon: It's sending multiple send transactions for the same BTC to different nodes on the network.
1255 2011-06-09 06:34:40 <Raccoon> ok
1256 2011-06-09 06:34:47 <Namegduf> The reason there's a delay of multiple blocks is the possibility of a block collision.
1257 2011-06-09 06:34:47 <Raccoon> so being connected to different nodes is important
1258 2011-06-09 06:35:01 <Raccoon> so one could intentionally harass deepbit for instance
1259 2011-06-09 06:35:01 <Namegduf> The reason you wait six is because the computational work involved in six makes it hard to do an attack.
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1262 2011-06-09 06:35:36 <Raccoon> causing more of their blocks to become invalid?
1263 2011-06-09 06:35:37 Netsniper has joined
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1265 2011-06-09 06:35:49 <Namegduf> Yep.
1266 2011-06-09 06:35:55 <lfm> Raccoon: ok to make a real simple scenario. step 1 get some bitcoins on your computer, step 2 clone your computer so you have two of everything, step 3 spend the coins you received with both computers at the same time to different places (with different net connections). there is a chance both places will see only their txn for a while before they see the other txn.
1267 2011-06-09 06:35:57 <Raccoon> ooh, neato
1268 2011-06-09 06:36:07 <Namegduf> Waiting two blocks would be equivalent to waiting 20 "one per minute" blocks
1269 2011-06-09 06:36:54 <Raccoon> lfm, a custom built client should be able to do this too?
1270 2011-06-09 06:37:00 <Raccoon> connect to, say, 100 nodes
1271 2011-06-09 06:37:01 <Neskia> ok we got it working gmaxwell
1272 2011-06-09 06:37:08 <Raccoon> 100x spend, differently to each node
1273 2011-06-09 06:37:10 <Namegduf> Raccoon: Yes, that's the main threat.
1274 2011-06-09 06:37:18 <Namegduf> Only one would get embedded in the next block, though.
1275 2011-06-09 06:37:18 <Raccoon> could make for a neat game
1276 2011-06-09 06:37:21 <Namegduf> No, not really
1277 2011-06-09 06:37:25 <Raccoon> get 100 people to send me 1 bitcoin
1278 2011-06-09 06:37:34 <Neskia> figured out what the problem was, he was looking for an RPC or JSON front end instead of the bitcoin gui
1279 2011-06-09 06:37:34 <Raccoon> i'll 100x spend 100 BTC to each of them
1280 2011-06-09 06:37:37 <Raccoon> see who wins
1281 2011-06-09 06:37:43 <Raccoon> i'm making this happen!
1282 2011-06-09 06:37:44 <Namegduf> Hah
1283 2011-06-09 06:37:50 jivvz has joined
1284 2011-06-09 06:38:13 <lfm> their is also a good chance they will see the wrong txn first
1285 2011-06-09 06:38:53 <Raccoon> the wrong txn first?
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1288 2011-06-09 06:39:25 <Namegduf> Well, the client won't let them spend money with 0 confirmations
1289 2011-06-09 06:39:26 <lfm> the net is quite tightly connected, you dont know who will see which txn first
1290 2011-06-09 06:39:46 <Namegduf> So they at least *probably* wouldn't result in a huge chain of reverted transactions and annoyance
1291 2011-06-09 06:39:49 <Raccoon> anyone can compile a client
1292 2011-06-09 06:40:01 Stellar has joined
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1294 2011-06-09 06:40:16 <Raccoon> anyone could connect to 100 different nodes right?
1295 2011-06-09 06:40:23 <Raccoon> or are there ip clone sweeps
1296 2011-06-09 06:40:40 <Raccoon> to make sure nobody is massively connecting to different points allover
1297 2011-06-09 06:41:00 <lfm> Namegduf: yup quite slim chances that the two txn would wind up in differnet sides of a block chain fork or anthing like that unless there was a whole lot of other stuff going on at the same time
1298 2011-06-09 06:41:19 LightRider is now known as LightRider|afk
1299 2011-06-09 06:41:32 <Raccoon> lfm: but what about 100 duplicates?
1300 2011-06-09 06:42:07 <lfm> Raccoon: one should work, the rest should get rejected, prolly on the first block
1301 2011-06-09 06:42:16 <Raccoon> ok
1302 2011-06-09 06:42:22 <Raccoon> but since they are all sent at the same nanosecond
1303 2011-06-09 06:42:27 <Raccoon> all have an equal chance at winning
1304 2011-06-09 06:42:31 <lfm> doesnt matter
1305 2011-06-09 06:42:38 <Raccoon> mainly depends on which node is better informed
1306 2011-06-09 06:43:27 <Raccoon> or which node has a slower PC Clock time?
1307 2011-06-09 06:43:48 <lfm> well ya, if you have 100 computers synced up to the nanosecond and huge bandwith, you could try to run a lottery that way I spoze. I wouldnt trust you with it to the point of buying tickets from you or anything but you are welcome to try
1308 2011-06-09 06:44:02 kish has joined
1309 2011-06-09 06:44:14 <Raccoon> so really
1310 2011-06-09 06:44:34 <Raccoon> any single node with a slow running clock has a better chance at calling a winner?
1311 2011-06-09 06:44:44 <lfm> huh?
1312 2011-06-09 06:44:50 <Raccoon> could even be used to intentionally invalidate blocks?
1313 2011-06-09 06:45:04 <Raccoon> since the transactions are timestamped
1314 2011-06-09 06:45:11 <Namegduf> I think the accepted block is the first one to arrive.
1315 2011-06-09 06:45:12 <lfm> I dont think so. maybe a fast node has a slightly better chance
1316 2011-06-09 06:45:14 <Namegduf> Not the first one by timestamp.
1317 2011-06-09 06:45:25 <Raccoon> but arrive to where?
1318 2011-06-09 06:45:32 <Raccoon> arrive to bill or jeff or angela?
1319 2011-06-09 06:45:44 <GarrettB> anyone here who has experience with portable air conditioners?
1320 2011-06-09 06:45:47 <lfm> the miners are the judges for what txn get into blocks
1321 2011-06-09 06:45:51 <GarrettB> my room doesn't have a window :I
1322 2011-06-09 06:46:00 <Raccoon> so it boils down to chance
1323 2011-06-09 06:46:03 <Raccoon> who solves a block
1324 2011-06-09 06:46:16 <lfm> most miners will follow the same rules
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1328 2011-06-09 06:46:52 <lfm> it is chance or "random" in the sense that you would have a hard time perdicting it I spoze
1329 2011-06-09 06:47:01 <lfm> perdicting
1330 2011-06-09 06:47:08 <lfm> predicting!!!!
1331 2011-06-09 06:47:36 * Raccoon takes the idea over to #bitcoin-games
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1341 2011-06-09 06:53:21 <lfm> GarrettB: put the air cond. in the door
1342 2011-06-09 06:54:11 <lfm> then it will dump all the heat (and maybe condesation) outside your door
1343 2011-06-09 06:54:29 EPiSKiNG is now known as EPiSKiNG-
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1349 2011-06-09 06:59:55 <Kireji> ;;bc,mtgox
1350 2011-06-09 06:59:55 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":31.9099,"low":22.8897,"vol":102734,"buy":30.26,"sell":30.4,"last":30.4}}
1351 2011-06-09 07:00:29 Marcel has joined
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1355 2011-06-09 07:02:11 <lfm> GarrettB: the door might not open and close correctly tho
1356 2011-06-09 07:02:26 coyote has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1357 2011-06-09 07:03:00 lebish is now known as lebish_zz
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1369 2011-06-09 07:23:25 <Kireji> ;;bc,mtgox
1370 2011-06-09 07:23:26 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":31.9099,"low":22.8897,"vol":102516,"buy":29.8744,"sell":30,"last":29.8744}}
1371 2011-06-09 07:24:18 <Kireji> id like an android widget that shows bitcoin price in usd
1372 2011-06-09 07:24:33 <GarrettB> lfm: haha yeah that will work. Thanks. Probably will go pick an air conditioner up tomorrow then
1373 2011-06-09 07:24:40 <GarrettB> Kireji: there is one
1374 2011-06-09 07:24:41 <GarrettB> google it
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1376 2011-06-09 07:24:53 <gjs278> GarrettB what are your temps
1377 2011-06-09 07:25:00 <GarrettB> gjs278: too fucking hot
1378 2011-06-09 07:25:01 <GarrettB> I dunno?
1379 2011-06-09 07:25:24 <Kireji> GarrettB: got it.  fkng amazing world we have
1380 2011-06-09 07:25:35 <gjs278> I can tell when my room is getting too hot when my cpu idle is 41C
1381 2011-06-09 07:26:13 <gjs278> thats when the cards start to creep towards 79
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1385 2011-06-09 07:29:25 <GarrettB> gjs278: Ideally my room would be <60
1386 2011-06-09 07:29:26 <GarrettB> f
1387 2011-06-09 07:29:35 <GarrettB> then I would feel okay running my miners
1388 2011-06-09 07:29:37 devrandom has joined
1389 2011-06-09 07:29:39 <gjs278> oh wow
1390 2011-06-09 07:29:49 <GarrettB> I like it cold
1391 2011-06-09 07:29:50 <gjs278> yeah my room is 72F all of the time, more if air isnt on
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1402 2011-06-09 07:40:04 <CIA-92> bitcoin: Florian Schmaus * rfd699361a494 gentoo/net-p2p/wxbitcoin/ (Manifest wxbitcoin-0.3.22.ebuild wxbitcoin-0.3.22_rc4.ebuild): Updated languages for wxbitcoin - thanks to xHire (https://github.com/bitcoin-gentoo/bitcoin-gentoo/issues/5) http://tinyurl.com/42fko4p
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1423 2011-06-09 08:14:56 <alystair> HOLY CRAP
1424 2011-06-09 08:15:05 <alystair> almost $30USD?
1425 2011-06-09 08:15:08 <mtrlt> yep
1426 2011-06-09 08:15:09 <alystair> are you guys for real?
1427 2011-06-09 08:15:14 <mtrlt> no, i'm imaginary
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1429 2011-06-09 08:15:22 <alystair> I'm kinda astounded
1430 2011-06-09 08:15:25 <alystair> and dumbstruck
1431 2011-06-09 08:15:28 <mtrlt> me too.
1432 2011-06-09 08:15:36 <alystair> and wish I actually invested time into this with my pittance ;O
1433 2011-06-09 08:15:45 <mtrlt> well, i'm glad i did. :)
1434 2011-06-09 08:16:06 <alystair> I didn't at all because I'm broke and only have a single nvidia gfx card ;O
1435 2011-06-09 08:16:13 Kurtov has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1436 2011-06-09 08:16:18 <alystair> all I have are two generated blocks to my name from back when CPU time was where it was at
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1438 2011-06-09 08:16:43 <TheAncientGoat> ;;bc,price
1439 2011-06-09 08:16:44 <gribble> Next Price Estimate: 38.1745 | Next Price In About 2 days, 19 hours, 30 minutes, and 14 seconds
1440 2011-06-09 08:17:28 <alystair> this is retarded
1441 2011-06-09 08:17:40 <alystair> people are sitting on suitcases of money rightn ow
1442 2011-06-09 08:17:43 <gjs278> holy shit
1443 2011-06-09 08:17:46 <gjs278> the bot can guess prices
1444 2011-06-09 08:17:46 <alystair> at least those whom got into it early
1445 2011-06-09 08:18:05 <gjs278> gribble what have you been hiding from me
1446 2011-06-09 08:18:18 <mtrlt> wtf, price estimate?
1447 2011-06-09 08:18:21 <mtrlt> what_is_that
1448 2011-06-09 08:18:30 <mtrlt> gotta be a joke :P
1449 2011-06-09 08:18:42 <alystair> it's all rigged
1450 2011-06-09 08:20:27 <yrralb> nah
1451 2011-06-09 08:20:30 <yrralb> its going to 38
1452 2011-06-09 08:20:42 <alystair> any idea if it will finally level off? :S
1453 2011-06-09 08:21:26 <ersi> P-p-pump it higher
1454 2011-06-09 08:21:28 <sacarlson> I did some simple math to compare bitcoin asset base with paypal that caculates if we become as big as them that bitcoin value would become about $4000  each,  if it only becomes 1/10 as big it will get to $400 each
1455 2011-06-09 08:21:31 <ersi> P-p-pump it fast
1456 2011-06-09 08:21:34 <ersi> P-p-pump it faster
1457 2011-06-09 08:21:37 <ersi> P-p-pump it better
1458 2011-06-09 08:22:27 <sacarlson> just imagin if we get biger than paypal? since we don't have all the restrictions that's not an imposibility
1459 2011-06-09 08:22:32 <mtrlt> sacarlson: what figures did you use?
1460 2011-06-09 08:22:37 <mtrlt> how did you calculate that $4000
1461 2011-06-09 08:23:05 <sacarlson> mtrlt: paypal assets at last quarter update is 29 billion in trusts
1462 2011-06-09 08:23:14 dissipate has joined
1463 2011-06-09 08:23:50 <mtrlt> hmm okay o_O
1464 2011-06-09 08:24:11 Lobster_Man has joined
1465 2011-06-09 08:24:14 <mtrlt> i'd like to know how much money goes thru paypal per day or something tho :p
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1499 2011-06-09 08:42:44 <sacarlson> mtrlt: I got the figure of 29 billion in assets (that here shows it to be billion master portfolio run by Barclays Global Fund Advisors) here billion master portfolio run by Barclays Global Fund Advisors
1500 2011-06-09 08:42:56 <sacarlson> opps http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/12/01/us-ebay-paypal-sivs-idUSN3064718620071201?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
1501 2011-06-09 08:43:35 earthmeLon has joined
1502 2011-06-09 08:43:52 <alystair> hmmm if there's any guarantee that bitcoins will keep pushing up so high I might have to check my couch for spare coins to magically transmute into BC
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1507 2011-06-09 08:52:22 <sacarlson> mtrlt: and I found the data for paypal transactions per day to be 177 million USD per day as seen here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal
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1510 2011-06-09 08:52:41 <mtrlt> sacarlson: wow, awesome thanks :)
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1515 2011-06-09 08:56:55 <aximilation> anyone have a general idea of how many BTC/day or month one would get, on a per Mh level?
1516 2011-06-09 08:57:07 <aximilation> (pooled mining with a n efficient miner)
1517 2011-06-09 08:57:16 <mtrlt> ;;bc,gen 1000
1518 2011-06-09 08:57:17 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 0.00177282770748 BTC per day and 7.38678211449e-05 BTC per hour.
1519 2011-06-09 08:57:22 <mtrlt> that's what you get on 1 MH/s
1520 2011-06-09 08:57:31 <mtrlt> so, close to nothing :p
1521 2011-06-09 08:57:49 <aximilation> perfect, thanks
1522 2011-06-09 08:57:51 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
1523 2011-06-09 08:57:52 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129550 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1489 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 22 hours, 40 minutes, and 29 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 739148.74845631
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1526 2011-06-09 09:01:40 <aximilation> ok sounds good, I realized I barely utilize the video card of my work machine, so why not make it mine...I should be looking at around 1.5 BTC/mo
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1535 2011-06-09 09:13:35 <vurte> Hello were can I find the bitoin generating algorithm ?
1536 2011-06-09 09:14:07 <spq> ;;bc,gen 8000
1537 2011-06-09 09:14:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 8000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 0.0141826216598 BTC per day and 0.000590942569159 BTC per hour.
1538 2011-06-09 09:14:10 <spq> ;;bc,gen 15000
1539 2011-06-09 09:14:12 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 15000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 0.0265924156122 BTC per day and 0.00110801731717 BTC per hour.
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1542 2011-06-09 09:15:35 <vurte> were to start ?
1543 2011-06-09 09:16:14 <spq> ~1.2$/day with my cpu & gpu
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1548 2011-06-09 09:17:10 <aximilation> I was thinking of buying a new card, the ATI 5770 seems to have a good hash rate and is about $125
1549 2011-06-09 09:17:31 <aximilation> 200-250 Mh/s reported
1550 2011-06-09 09:17:55 <ersi> vurte: Are you going to make your own miner software?
1551 2011-06-09 09:18:01 <aximilation> ;;bc,gen 200000
1552 2011-06-09 09:18:03 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 0.354565541496 BTC per day and 0.014773564229 BTC per hour.
1553 2011-06-09 09:18:03 <vurte> yes
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1556 2011-06-09 09:20:11 <minus> i wonder if anyone is designing a BTC processor
1557 2011-06-09 09:20:36 <minus> what i heard from FPGAs was promising
1558 2011-06-09 09:21:17 <ersi> vurte: Either read the http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf or check the source code of either the bitcoin client (the previous versions which had 'generate coins' option) or one of the open source miner softwares. Like poclbm for example
1559 2011-06-09 09:21:51 <spq> vurtle, you have to understand the algorithm, i can nopaste you my test c++ app
1560 2011-06-09 09:22:06 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1561 2011-06-09 09:22:08 <ersi> minus: ArtForz has a lot of logic circuits mining
1562 2011-06-09 09:22:30 <minus> logic circuits?
1563 2011-06-09 09:22:54 Kurtov has joined
1564 2011-06-09 09:22:57 <spq> http://nopaste.info/fafb04fb1d.html
1565 2011-06-09 09:23:03 <RenaKunisaki> http://venturebeat.com/2011/06/08/government-crackdown-on-bitcoin/ ooooooh
1566 2011-06-09 09:23:10 <RenaKunisaki> this oughta be interesting
1567 2011-06-09 09:23:42 <mtrlt> :D
1568 2011-06-09 09:24:02 * RenaKunisaki is in Canada and can code, just FYI... :p
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1570 2011-06-09 09:26:54 <vurte> ersi: thanks you. This pdf doesnt tell much about generating.
1571 2011-06-09 09:27:56 <ersi> minus: He and everyone else will be pissed if I try to say what kind of the blasted circuits it is. It isn't ASIC-ASIC and it isn't FPGA.. que blah blah
1572 2011-06-09 09:27:58 <vurte> ersi: yes I thought that tere will be a other way then reading all the source.
1573 2011-06-09 09:28:12 <ersi> Information is imo spare
1574 2011-06-09 09:29:18 <Raccoon> Rock on Google, rock on. http://www.google.com/
1575 2011-06-09 09:30:10 <vurte> ersi: thank you any way. At least I know now that there is no other resource then reading the source :)
1576 2011-06-09 09:31:10 <ersi> afaik that's the only way, if it isn't detailed in the bitcoin.pdf document or on the wiki - else it's scourging the forums/IRC logs for bits and pieces
1577 2011-06-09 09:31:13 <ersi> np :)
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1580 2011-06-09 09:35:26 <oxygenerator> lizthegrey: so brutal..
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1589 2011-06-09 09:43:32 <d1234> ;;bc,gen 40000
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1591 2011-06-09 09:43:33 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 40000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 0.0709131082991 BTC per day and 0.0029547128458 BTC per hour.
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1594 2011-06-09 09:50:23 <phantomcircuit> BurtyB, hey there you online?
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1617 2011-06-09 11:16:11 <cyberdo> is it always the longest chain that wins if two chains collide in the network?
1618 2011-06-09 11:16:57 <phantomcircuit> cyberdo, the chain with the most work
1619 2011-06-09 11:17:07 <yrralb> i think theoretically its the chain that has the most difficulty
1620 2011-06-09 11:17:40 <phantomcircuit> not theoretically
1621 2011-06-09 11:17:42 <phantomcircuit> actually
1622 2011-06-09 11:17:47 <yrralb> because otherwise you can just create a long chain with really low difficulty
1623 2011-06-09 11:18:07 <yrralb> well, i don't know actual, but i can guess the way its implemented :P
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1627 2011-06-09 11:26:49 <minus> great, graphics card crashed and now my truecrypt volume is broken
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1650 2011-06-09 12:15:20 <putridp_> Does the current client always maintain 100 unused address in wallet.dat, or does it simply create 100 addresses at a time when it runs out?
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1657 2011-06-09 12:30:47 <iera> putridp_: dont rely on that, on guy in the forums lost 7200 because he thought he had 100 unused ones iirc
1658 2011-06-09 12:30:56 <iera> but i didnt look at that code :)
1659 2011-06-09 12:31:31 <vegard> it keeps a queue of them, as far as I know
1660 2011-06-09 12:32:10 <vegard> i.e. whenever you use one, it fills them up so you still have 100 free
1661 2011-06-09 12:35:59 <Diablo-D3> iera: oh?
1662 2011-06-09 12:36:40 <iera> Diablo-D3: hm... perhaps i find the thread
1663 2011-06-09 12:36:52 <iera> Diablo-D3: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11104.0
1664 2011-06-09 12:40:05 <putridp_> Always maintaining a minimum of 100 unused address is sensible to know what the backup requirements are. At least until wallet.dat encryption is integrated into the client.
1665 2011-06-09 12:40:20 piti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1666 2011-06-09 12:44:22 <putridp_> Holy shit, 7208BTC lost.
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1668 2011-06-09 12:44:38 <TheAncientGoat> putridp_: Huh?
1669 2011-06-09 12:45:07 <TheAncientGoat> oh
1670 2011-06-09 12:45:09 <TheAncientGoat> crap
1671 2011-06-09 12:45:13 <putridp_> TheAncientGoat: As described in the link above
1672 2011-06-09 12:45:19 <TheAncientGoat> I see
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1676 2011-06-09 12:49:51 <lizthegrey> oxygenerator: context?
1677 2011-06-09 12:50:48 <vegard> ouch, it must hurt to lose that much btc
1678 2011-06-09 12:51:20 <putridp_> The client rely should be more clear about it's address management.
1679 2011-06-09 12:51:25 <putridp_> s/rely/really
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1683 2011-06-09 13:01:31 <user_12314> hi devs, anyone here?
1684 2011-06-09 13:01:43 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
1685 2011-06-09 13:02:02 <user_12314> looking for some help with the bit-coin wiki
1686 2011-06-09 13:02:21 <benlake> Holy helll.
1687 2011-06-09 13:02:47 <user_12314> whats wrong benlake?
1688 2011-06-09 13:02:59 <benlake> you don't srm your files until you SEE your money!
1689 2011-06-09 13:03:15 <benlake> user_12314: responding to the thread above... christ cakes
1690 2011-06-09 13:03:41 <user_12314> sorry, i just joined the channel
1691 2011-06-09 13:03:57 <user_12314> does anyone here know about downloading the bit-coin wiki?
1692 2011-06-09 13:04:36 vikarti has joined
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1703 2011-06-09 13:14:26 <Archevety> has anyone experience with compiling wireshark with bitcoin dissector?
1704 2011-06-09 13:16:48 <diki> sharks and dissection? sounds weird and perverted
1705 2011-06-09 13:17:08 <Archevety> hehe,
1706 2011-06-09 13:17:21 <Archevety> you know what wireshark is right?
1707 2011-06-09 13:17:55 <ersi> With that kind of question, I'd guess not. It sure as heck wasn't funny, so it wasn't a joke.
1708 2011-06-09 13:17:58 kluge has joined
1709 2011-06-09 13:18:53 <phantomcircuit> Archevety, there is a bitcoin dissector?
1710 2011-06-09 13:19:02 <Archevety> yeah
1711 2011-06-09 13:19:09 <Archevety> in development
1712 2011-06-09 13:19:15 fairy44 has joined
1713 2011-06-09 13:19:21 <Archevety> it's a project on github
1714 2011-06-09 13:19:34 <Archevety> but I can't get it to work
1715 2011-06-09 13:20:11 <Archevety> it would be really neat
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1717 2011-06-09 13:21:13 Wuked has joined
1718 2011-06-09 13:21:47 <Wuked> 411 people in a dev channel ?! crazy
1719 2011-06-09 13:22:15 <phantomcircuit> yeah most of them are big fat liars
1720 2011-06-09 13:22:30 <user_12314> anyone know of a way to download the complete bitcoin wiki?
1721 2011-06-09 13:23:44 <Wuked> you could rip it with a site ripper
1722 2011-06-09 13:24:06 <Wuked> there doesn't seem much point though
1723 2011-06-09 13:24:14 <user_12314> what about the backed up versions are they of any use?
1724 2011-06-09 13:24:36 <user_12314> can they be used to populate a media-wiki installation on my server?
1725 2011-06-09 13:25:28 putridp_ has left ()
1726 2011-06-09 13:26:46 <Wuked> no
1727 2011-06-09 13:26:51 <Wuked> you'd need the database for that
1728 2011-06-09 13:27:09 <Wuked> unless they are offering the database up you'll struggle
1729 2011-06-09 13:27:32 Orborde has joined
1730 2011-06-09 13:27:38 <phantomcircuit> user_12314, if you ask nicely and figure out who runs it im sure they'd give it to you
1731 2011-06-09 13:29:34 <user_12314> phantomcircuit, would you be able to please guide me in the right direction? :)
1732 2011-06-09 13:30:23 Nicksasa has joined
1733 2011-06-09 13:30:36 <pensan> is there an ETA for the 0.3.23 release?
1734 2011-06-09 13:31:13 <phantomcircuit> user_12314, i have no idea who owns bitcoin.it
1735 2011-06-09 13:31:38 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1746 2011-06-09 13:44:16 <theorbtwo> There's a nice way to download an entire mediawiki, IIRC.
1747 2011-06-09 13:46:34 <ersi> theorbtwo: http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/
1748 2011-06-09 13:46:54 <ersi> That way you get an .xml with all the material~
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1757 2011-06-09 14:03:59 <Wuked> is there a difficulty calculator somewhere I can use to work out how long it's going to take me to find 50BTC's on the testnet ?
1758 2011-06-09 14:04:20 pRjck3vC has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1759 2011-06-09 14:06:56 <phantomcircuit> Wuked, ;;bc,calcd
1760 2011-06-09 14:07:01 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calcd 300000 1
1761 2011-06-09 14:07:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 14 seconds
1762 2011-06-09 14:08:34 Kurtov has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1766 2011-06-09 14:10:41 <diki> is it possible to read a string from a file and the function returns the string as const char*?
1767 2011-06-09 14:11:04 <jrmithdobbs> sure
1768 2011-06-09 14:11:22 <diki> i am ultimately thinking of having a diff.text file where my difficulty is gonna be so i dont have to recompile if i want to change it
1769 2011-06-09 14:11:44 <jrmithdobbs> why not just stick it in the config?
1770 2011-06-09 14:11:53 <jrmithdobbs> or an environment variable
1771 2011-06-09 14:11:53 <diki> explain
1772 2011-06-09 14:12:07 <diki> yeah, a little above what i can do
1773 2011-06-09 14:12:14 <jrmithdobbs> pushpool already uses a json-based config, extending it to support a new option is trivial
1774 2011-06-09 14:12:22 <diki> oh, that, i tried it
1775 2011-06-09 14:12:25 <diki> failed
1776 2011-06-09 14:12:27 <jrmithdobbs> both of those are less work than you just proposed
1777 2011-06-09 14:12:42 <diki> but...the config is parsed only once
1778 2011-06-09 14:12:48 <diki> the text file will be read
1779 2011-06-09 14:12:59 <diki> when a miner requests getwork
1780 2011-06-09 14:13:11 <jrmithdobbs> awful
1781 2011-06-09 14:13:20 <diki> not for a single miners it wont be
1782 2011-06-09 14:13:25 <diki> *miner
1783 2011-06-09 14:13:39 <jrmithdobbs> if you're using a single miner just don't rewrite diff at all
1784 2011-06-09 14:13:48 <jrmithdobbs> you can turn that off in the config
1785 2011-06-09 14:14:01 <diki> why not?
1786 2011-06-09 14:14:05 <diki> it's easy to brute force
1787 2011-06-09 14:14:10 <diki> than find it at current diff
1788 2011-06-09 14:14:14 <jrmithdobbs> what
1789 2011-06-09 14:14:32 johnnympereira5 has joined
1790 2011-06-09 14:14:34 <jrmithdobbs> nm, i'm too busy to try and parse your insanity this morning, do whatever you like
1791 2011-06-09 14:14:51 <diki> i am just trying my luck
1792 2011-06-09 14:15:00 oxygenerator has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1793 2011-06-09 14:15:02 <diki> already found a block so...
1794 2011-06-09 14:15:09 <diki> why not again by varying the diff
1795 2011-06-09 14:15:39 <diki> like switching between 0.999 diff and 1.9999
1796 2011-06-09 14:17:04 glassresistor has joined
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1800 2011-06-09 14:23:23 iocor has joined
1801 2011-06-09 14:23:42 <iocor> how do I authenticate to an rpc server, and then issue a getwork request in python
1802 2011-06-09 14:23:50 <jrmithdobbs> diki: because that wont effect your ability to find a block?!
1803 2011-06-09 14:24:10 <doublec> iocor: have a look at jgarzik's poold.py
1804 2011-06-09 14:24:24 <doublec> iocor: http://yyz.us/bitcoin/poold.py
1805 2011-06-09 14:24:24 pensan has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1806 2011-06-09 14:24:48 <doublec> iocor: see the BitcoinRPC class
1807 2011-06-09 14:24:50 <jrmithdobbs> iocor: or just go look at how json-rpc works, it's pretty straight forward
1808 2011-06-09 14:25:01 <ius> BlueMatt: did you just update https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/232 ?
1809 2011-06-09 14:25:11 <iocor> jrmithdobbs: don't most pools require you to use the longpoll thing?
1810 2011-06-09 14:25:20 <BlueMatt> ius: yea, changed 1 char so that walletpasswordchage works
1811 2011-06-09 14:25:27 <ius> The pull overview for bitcoin/bitcoin says it was updated 5min ago, but I don't see any changes on the request itself
1812 2011-06-09 14:25:29 <BlueMatt> (it used to change password from oldpass to oldpass)
1813 2011-06-09 14:25:30 <ius> Ah
1814 2011-06-09 14:25:51 <jrmithdobbs> iocor: don't require, no, but if you're trying to write a miner you need to know how to do much more than just a json-rpc request
1815 2011-06-09 14:26:28 <ius> BlueMatt: Where's the change? Can't find it in your repo
1816 2011-06-09 14:26:31 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1817 2011-06-09 14:26:38 <BlueMatt> I push -f'd to keep the pull clean
1818 2011-06-09 14:26:48 <ius> ah
1819 2011-06-09 14:27:01 <BlueMatt> (so that its not add priv keys, fix 1, fix 2, one-char fix 3, etc)
1820 2011-06-09 14:27:02 <ius> https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/4b82ff11135a0fb3000148f8ba2502c2b9417fbc < So that should be fine?
1821 2011-06-09 14:28:00 <BlueMatt> yea, that is the current one right?
1822 2011-06-09 14:28:14 <ius> Looks like it
1823 2011-06-09 14:28:24 <BlueMatt> yea it is
1824 2011-06-09 14:28:33 <BlueMatt> rpc.cpp:1454 has the 1 instead of 0
1825 2011-06-09 14:28:40 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: don't do that. if anyone else is merging from you it fucks up the git history
1826 2011-06-09 14:28:45 <jrmithdobbs> horribly
1827 2011-06-09 14:28:58 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: well if its a pull req, its set up for pull, not for merging
1828 2011-06-09 14:29:19 <BlueMatt> you should still be able to easily revert the commit and reapply
1829 2011-06-09 14:29:27 <BlueMatt> its not that hard
1830 2011-06-09 14:29:32 <jrmithdobbs> ya but there's no indication that it needs to be done
1831 2011-06-09 14:29:58 <BlueMatt> meh, whatever, I can not rebase until pull next time then
1832 2011-06-09 14:30:00 <jrmithdobbs> as far as git knows you already have it applied and if you fetch before you revert things break
1833 2011-06-09 14:30:03 <jrmithdobbs> awfully
1834 2011-06-09 14:30:44 <Wuked> ;;bc,calcd 102400 77
1835 2011-06-09 14:30:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 102400 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77, is 53 minutes and 49 seconds
1836 2011-06-09 14:30:56 <jrmithdobbs> ya those 'YOU PROBABLY DONT WANT TO DO THIS' warnings just actually apply to that, just letting you know ;P
1837 2011-06-09 14:31:23 <jrmithdobbs> (when trying to repush without -f after editing history)
1838 2011-06-09 14:31:23 <BlueMatt> they apply everywhere
1839 2011-06-09 14:31:40 <jrmithdobbs> not everywhere git says them, it's a bit over cautious, heh
1840 2011-06-09 14:31:51 <BlueMatt> but if I say "dont use this until pull" then that means dont use it or expect a useable experience
1841 2011-06-09 14:32:14 <BlueMatt> you can checkout my branch and use it fine, but merging it...dont do it
1842 2011-06-09 14:32:48 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1843 2011-06-09 14:33:13 <BlueMatt> anyway, I have to go...if you plan on using a branch from git, expect things to break and its assumed you know how to fix them
1844 2011-06-09 14:34:11 <jrmithdobbs> well fine, i guess, if you like completely defeating the purpose of using git vs another rcs i'll just keep that in mind if ever looking at your code ;P
1845 2011-06-09 14:34:18 <diki> what the hell is a returned address of a local variable
1846 2011-06-09 14:34:20 <diki> stupid C
1847 2011-06-09 14:34:43 lupine_85 has quit (Changing host)
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1849 2011-06-09 14:35:28 <davex__> diki: something that a function shouldn't do
1850 2011-06-09 14:35:40 normanrichards has joined
1851 2011-06-09 14:36:37 <ahihi2> don't return pointers to things allocated on the stack :p
1852 2011-06-09 14:36:46 <jrmithdobbs> lol
1853 2011-06-09 14:37:24 <jrmithdobbs> diki: unless it's static (and therefore not on the stack, and probably what you want to do) what you are doing is a recipie for disaster
1854 2011-06-09 14:37:57 <ersi> jrmithdobbs: Well, that disaster pot has been cookin' for a while!
1855 2011-06-09 14:38:04 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1856 2011-06-09 14:38:13 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: ya but this is a new order of disaster
1857 2011-06-09 14:38:35 <ersi> well, I'll hand you/him that
1858 2011-06-09 14:38:55 <gps__> had an idea for bootstrapping. Why don't we do what torrents do and use a tracker. just because it's not decentralized?
1859 2011-06-09 14:39:11 <ahihi2> is anyone working on an ncurses bitcoin client?
1860 2011-06-09 14:39:15 <diki> it doesnt work with static either
1861 2011-06-09 14:39:17 <ahihi2> I'm thinking of starting one if not
1862 2011-06-09 14:39:37 <jrmithdobbs> diki: just randomly adding the word static somewhere doesn't work
1863 2011-06-09 14:39:39 <jrmithdobbs> keep this in mind
1864 2011-06-09 14:39:50 * jrmithdobbs runs
1865 2011-06-09 14:41:42 <diki> well i tried extern-ing it
1866 2011-06-09 14:41:45 <diki> no dice there
1867 2011-06-09 14:42:18 <davex__> what are you trying to do
1868 2011-06-09 14:42:44 <diki> make pushpool read difficulty from file
1869 2011-06-09 14:42:57 <diki> rather than use the one which is hardcoded
1870 2011-06-09 14:44:27 <davex__> pastebin the relevant code
1871 2011-06-09 14:44:46 Stellar has joined
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1873 2011-06-09 14:45:39 <diki> http://pastebin.com/T8uySmks
1874 2011-06-09 14:46:00 <iocor> ok, just to check I'm not being stupid: miner sends a getwork request to the server, gets the data flag, converts the data flag from hex to an actual in memory integer, computes x = sha256(sha256(data)), if x < target: result to server else: increment nonce and try again
1875 2011-06-09 14:46:12 <iocor> result to server == getwork with the hash?
1876 2011-06-09 14:46:51 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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1879 2011-06-09 14:50:30 <scott`> ;;bc,stats
1880 2011-06-09 14:50:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129588 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1451 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 20 hours, 37 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 728892.41680510
1881 2011-06-09 14:51:22 <diki> so where is the problem davex?
1882 2011-06-09 14:51:41 edgarallanpoe has joined
1883 2011-06-09 14:52:29 <dD0T> diki: Ouch. You didn't do much with C yet did you?
1884 2011-06-09 14:52:46 <diki> honestly, i seen no problem in it
1885 2011-06-09 14:52:51 <diki> in the code
1886 2011-06-09 14:53:03 dx25 has joined
1887 2011-06-09 14:53:24 <dD0T> diki: You return a pointer to a variable on the stack. A variable that gets thrown away on function return.
1888 2011-06-09 14:53:55 <diki> so i need to make another variable referencing the function?
1889 2011-06-09 14:54:00 <dD0T> diki: You have to pass a char array into the function and write to it to get values out of the function.
1890 2011-06-09 14:54:37 <dD0T> Also why in the world is the function static ;-)
1891 2011-06-09 14:54:51 <diki> jrmith said so
1892 2011-06-09 14:55:01 <jrmithdobbs> i said the variable you idiot
1893 2011-06-09 14:55:06 <dD0T> diki: You can declare the array to be static
1894 2011-06-09 14:55:09 <jrmithdobbs> go read K&R
1895 2011-06-09 14:55:14 <jrmithdobbs> jesus
1896 2011-06-09 14:55:46 <dD0T> diki: That way it will be only allocated _once_ and remain after the function returns. But you srsly don't want to do that either
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1899 2011-06-09 15:00:47 <dD0T> diki: What you want to do could look like this: int easytarget(char *result) { FILE *f = fopen("diff.txt", "r"); if(!f || fgets(result, 64, f) == NULL) return 0; return 1; }
1900 2011-06-09 15:00:52 <luke-jr> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics
1901 2011-06-09 15:00:53 <luke-jr> wtf?
1902 2011-06-09 15:01:22 <anarchyx> i just sent a transaction an hour ago but i got 0/offline (it appears i had 0 connections).. so now an hour later i have many connections again but the transaction is still at 0 confirmations
1903 2011-06-09 15:01:46 <anarchyx> although the blocks went up already in the meanwhile
1904 2011-06-09 15:01:58 <phantomcircuit> anarchyx, dont close bitcoin for 30 minutes and it will resend
1905 2011-06-09 15:02:03 molecular has joined
1906 2011-06-09 15:02:03 <anarchyx> oh crap
1907 2011-06-09 15:02:05 <dD0T> diki: You'd have to pass an array of 64 chars into there (assuming you want to read 63 characters from the file since fgets appends zero termination)
1908 2011-06-09 15:02:06 <anarchyx> i closed it
1909 2011-06-09 15:02:36 <anarchyx> so i just re-open it and wait?
1910 2011-06-09 15:02:43 <doublec> yes
1911 2011-06-09 15:02:50 <anarchyx> cool tnx
1912 2011-06-09 15:03:04 <doublec> np
1913 2011-06-09 15:03:35 <dD0T> diki: But srsly. You should do some C tutorials first. Without a basic grasp of the language it's very easy to shoot yourself in the foot.
1914 2011-06-09 15:03:51 <ersi> Oh, he doesn't have any feet
1915 2011-06-09 15:03:55 <phantomcircuit> diki, thinking in c++ enjoy
1916 2011-06-09 15:03:58 <phantomcircuit> (its free)
1917 2011-06-09 15:04:02 <ersi> Or legs for that part. It's all been shot away!
1918 2011-06-09 15:04:27 <davex__> hmm, harsh jrsmithdobbs.
1919 2011-06-09 15:04:27 <diki> for a man without feet, i sure bathed in some 50 coins
1920 2011-06-09 15:05:16 <dD0T> phantomcircuit: I thought he was talking about C
1921 2011-06-09 15:05:23 <doublec> you won't have them once someone exploits your modified pool using some sort of stack overflow exploit
1922 2011-06-09 15:05:34 <diki> it is for C ddot
1923 2011-06-09 15:06:00 <dD0T> Good because in C++ you wouldn't bother with C style strings unless you have to for some legacy API or something.
1924 2011-06-09 15:06:01 <phantomcircuit> diki, c++ is not c
1925 2011-06-09 15:06:05 <diki> doublec, that piece of code is for me only
1926 2011-06-09 15:06:10 <Wuked> I'm just looking at pushpool, and I have a few questions on working on a front end for it, I'm looking at this like slushs pool and trying to figure out what's going on...
1927 2011-06-09 15:06:28 <diki> phantom:yes i know, can you imagine?
1928 2011-06-09 15:06:53 <Wuked> would I be right in saying that for a front end, the pools are just swatching the shares for each client come in, waiting tunil 50coins hit the wallet, and then sharing them out based on the shares?
1929 2011-06-09 15:06:54 <jrmithdobbs> davex__: deserved
1930 2011-06-09 15:06:59 <Wuked> clear the share table and start again ?
1931 2011-06-09 15:07:22 <diki> wuked i thought about that process
1932 2011-06-09 15:07:26 <davex__> jrmithdobbs: i wouldn't know.
1933 2011-06-09 15:07:28 <diki> there are flaws
1934 2011-06-09 15:07:36 vokoda has joined
1935 2011-06-09 15:07:54 <Wuked> how else can you do it ?
1936 2011-06-09 15:07:57 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: actually, for what he's doing he really does want to do that but he wont understand how to handle the static variable anyways so probably not a good idea for *him* to do it
1937 2011-06-09 15:08:00 <diki> there are flaws if you use truncate table xxx
1938 2011-06-09 15:08:06 <ius> Wuked: pushpool doesn't know about coins, and only distributes work which it gets from bitcoind
1939 2011-06-09 15:08:27 <Wuked> yeah
1940 2011-06-09 15:08:27 <diki> if you have a cron watching for a block, and it has found one, count the number of shares before the block and delete them via a foreach
1941 2011-06-09 15:08:31 <ius> When a valid solution is found, it's returned to bitcoind. That's all it does
1942 2011-06-09 15:08:56 <Wuked> I'm a complete newbie to bitcoin as of yesterday
1943 2011-06-09 15:09:00 <Wuked> so bare with me a little
1944 2011-06-09 15:09:03 vikarti has joined
1945 2011-06-09 15:09:12 <Wuked> I've got a table from pushpool
1946 2011-06-09 15:09:18 <Wuked> with lots of "blocks" in them
1947 2011-06-09 15:09:18 <jrmithdobbs> Wuked: do not take design/algorithm advice from diki
1948 2011-06-09 15:09:22 <Wuked> or results sent from the client
1949 2011-06-09 15:09:24 <jrmithdobbs> you have been warned
1950 2011-06-09 15:09:29 <ius> Correct
1951 2011-06-09 15:09:56 <ersi> Wuked: I'll append a warning upon jrmithdobbs's warning
1952 2011-06-09 15:09:57 <Wuked> I assume all of them are units of work
1953 2011-06-09 15:10:01 <Wuked> with "incorrect" solutions
1954 2011-06-09 15:10:39 <jrmithdobbs> it's coffee time
1955 2011-06-09 15:10:45 <Wuked> what's the best way for identifying when a valid block is found ?
1956 2011-06-09 15:11:22 <Wuked> I'm not sure if I've got the terminology right though
1957 2011-06-09 15:12:01 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: I don't know what he's trying to do ;-) But using a static variable to return its address is pretty bad style imho (as calling the function again will obviously have side effects on the values already returned). In C++ it's a way to do singletons but that's not what he's doing here ;-) Then again. I don't know what he's trying to do ;-)
1958 2011-06-09 15:12:04 <diki> if a valid block is found, a row in mysql or your preferred engine will have upstream_result = 'Y'
1959 2011-06-09 15:12:18 <Wuked> O.K
1960 2011-06-09 15:12:19 fpgaminer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1961 2011-06-09 15:12:33 <Wuked> but what does a valid block mean
1962 2011-06-09 15:12:37 fpgaminer has joined
1963 2011-06-09 15:12:40 <Wuked> a valid block != 50BTC ?
1964 2011-06-09 15:12:42 <phantomcircuit> holy shit rpc is slow
1965 2011-06-09 15:12:45 <diki> == 50 btc
1966 2011-06-09 15:13:06 <Wuked> ah O.K
1967 2011-06-09 15:13:07 <Wuked> so
1968 2011-06-09 15:13:10 <Wuked> our_result
1969 2011-06-09 15:13:15 <phantomcircuit> Wuked, right now the first transaction in generated blocks is allowed to contain 50 BTC without an input
1970 2011-06-09 15:13:34 <ersi> Wuked: At least 50 BTC. You get the transaction fees that were included in the transactions within the block as well
1971 2011-06-09 15:13:35 <phantomcircuit> although i believe you could generate a perfectly valid block w/o the 50BTC in it
1972 2011-06-09 15:13:38 <diki> wiked, our_result is what pushpool returns
1973 2011-06-09 15:13:51 <diki> upstream is what bitcoind returns
1974 2011-06-09 15:14:02 <Wuked> right
1975 2011-06-09 15:14:06 <Wuked> all mine are saying Null
1976 2011-06-09 15:14:11 <Wuked> should that be N ?
1977 2011-06-09 15:14:15 <diki> no
1978 2011-06-09 15:14:19 <Wuked> or is it either Y or NULL
1979 2011-06-09 15:14:46 <doublec> I wonder how many pools will get caught out at the first changeover to 25btc blocks and payout from the first 50
1980 2011-06-09 15:15:06 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1981 2011-06-09 15:15:07 <diki> that is still 80 blocks away
1982 2011-06-09 15:15:07 <doublec> I assume it won't happen as everyone will be watching that day for affect on prices
1983 2011-06-09 15:15:10 <diki> 80k blocks
1984 2011-06-09 15:15:30 <doublec> diki: that's what we used to think about Y2K in the 90's.
1985 2011-06-09 15:15:31 vokoda has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1986 2011-06-09 15:15:56 <Wuked> so to see if I've found a valid block, I just check the shares table or any result with upstream_result = "Y" ?
1987 2011-06-09 15:16:04 <diki> yep
1988 2011-06-09 15:16:06 <Wuked> and I "should" have a new transaction
1989 2011-06-09 15:16:09 <Wuked> with cash monies
1990 2011-06-09 15:16:10 vokoda has joined
1991 2011-06-09 15:16:12 <diki> yeah
1992 2011-06-09 15:16:19 <Wuked> alright
1993 2011-06-09 15:16:20 <doublec> Wuked: you might not have the monies
1994 2011-06-09 15:16:23 <diki> but beware, you could have two blocks in there
1995 2011-06-09 15:16:27 <doublec> Wuked: since the block needs to mature
1996 2011-06-09 15:16:29 <diki> so be sure to safely handle them as well
1997 2011-06-09 15:16:39 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1998 2011-06-09 15:16:51 <Wuked> sure Diki I udnerstand that
1999 2011-06-09 15:16:57 <Wuked> I'm not going to go around truncating the table ;)
2000 2011-06-09 15:17:03 <doublec> Wuked: after finding a block it takes 120 confirmations before you actually have the coins
2001 2011-06-09 15:17:13 da2ce7 has joined
2002 2011-06-09 15:17:16 <Wuked> I see
2003 2011-06-09 15:17:23 <Wuked> how can I check the confirmations ?
2004 2011-06-09 15:17:40 <doublec> Wuked: you count the number of blocks found in the bitcoin network since the result
2005 2011-06-09 15:18:13 <doublec> Wuked: when getblockcount - 120 > resultblocknumber you're golden
2006 2011-06-09 15:18:41 <diki> ask yourself though, how will you get the block number?
2007 2011-06-09 15:19:00 <doublec> doublec, how will I get the block number?
2008 2011-06-09 15:19:05 <Wuked> that was going to be my next question ;)
2009 2011-06-09 15:19:18 <doublec> diki: I didn't answer :(
2010 2011-06-09 15:19:54 <D0han> is there bitcoin client written in python?
2011 2011-06-09 15:19:59 <ius> D0han: Yes
2012 2011-06-09 15:20:07 <D0han> where/name?
2013 2011-06-09 15:20:14 <ius> https://github.com/jgarzik/pyminer/
2014 2011-06-09 15:20:27 Incitatus has joined
2015 2011-06-09 15:20:43 <ius> Also, poclbm and phoenix - this one is easy to grasp if that's your goal
2016 2011-06-09 15:20:44 <D0han> its realy is client? or miner?
2017 2011-06-09 15:20:49 <ius> Oh client
2018 2011-06-09 15:20:51 * ius runs
2019 2011-06-09 15:20:53 <ius> Sorry
2020 2011-06-09 15:20:53 <D0han> yep, client
2021 2011-06-09 15:21:08 <Wuked> So is finding the block number a guarded secret or ? surely you just check the block count at the time of finding ?
2022 2011-06-09 15:21:10 <ius> Reading phoenix's source, must be that :>
2023 2011-06-09 15:21:55 <D0han> phoenix, will check that
2024 2011-06-09 15:22:14 <diki> wuked, that is a very flawed idea
2025 2011-06-09 15:22:31 <Wuked> it has to be around that ballpark ?
2026 2011-06-09 15:22:33 netsky has joined
2027 2011-06-09 15:22:34 <doublec> D0han: try http://gitorious.org/pycoin
2028 2011-06-09 15:22:41 <diki> it is very possible at the time of checking of the count, just before it's done, another block can be found
2029 2011-06-09 15:22:42 <doublec> D0han: I dont know how complete it is
2030 2011-06-09 15:22:58 <doublec> D0han: forum thread here http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=4084
2031 2011-06-09 15:23:12 <Wuked> sure diki
2032 2011-06-09 15:23:25 <Wuked> so do you have any suggestions ?
2033 2011-06-09 15:23:37 <diki> none so far
2034 2011-06-09 15:23:39 <D0han> doublec: thx
2035 2011-06-09 15:23:56 <Wuked> slushs pool has a count
2036 2011-06-09 15:23:57 <doublec> Wuked: call getblockcount at the time the getowrk is requested by the client
2037 2011-06-09 15:24:04 <doublec> Wuked: store that with the getwork information
2038 2011-06-09 15:24:04 <Wuked> so either he's doing it
2039 2011-06-09 15:24:09 <Wuked> or estimating it
2040 2011-06-09 15:24:14 <doublec> Wuked: when the miner solves the block, you know the block number for that getwork
2041 2011-06-09 15:24:46 <doublec> or modify bitcoind to return the block count as part of the getwork
2042 2011-06-09 15:24:49 <doublec> and save an rpc call
2043 2011-06-09 15:25:00 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2044 2011-06-09 15:25:03 <Wuked> is it possible to edit the SQL statement on the share insertion for pushpool to get that information ?
2045 2011-06-09 15:25:21 <Wuked> I guess not as it's not part of the call
2046 2011-06-09 15:25:24 <doublec> Wuked: anything is possible if you have the source
2047 2011-06-09 15:25:37 <Wuked> aye
2048 2011-06-09 15:25:44 <Wuked> I'm no c programer mind you ;)
2049 2011-06-09 15:25:53 dx25 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2050 2011-06-09 15:26:05 <Wuked> I'm just working on a front end in rails
2051 2011-06-09 15:26:12 <doublec> Wuked: another approach is to use listtransactions
2052 2011-06-09 15:26:26 <doublec> Wuked: that'll list immature blocks found as 'immature'
2053 2011-06-09 15:26:43 <doublec> Wuked: just wait till one around the time of the one you found is no longer immature
2054 2011-06-09 15:26:53 <diki> listtransactions doesnt tell you the block number
2055 2011-06-09 15:27:04 <doublec> diki: it gives a confirmation count
2056 2011-06-09 15:27:07 <diki> although it sure can be modded to show it
2057 2011-06-09 15:27:12 <doublec> so call it immediately after finding a block
2058 2011-06-09 15:27:17 <diki> doublec, the problem is fetching the count
2059 2011-06-09 15:27:19 <doublec> it'll show a 0 confirmation immature block
2060 2011-06-09 15:27:29 <doublec> now wait till that hits 120
2061 2011-06-09 15:28:19 <anarchyx> i just sent a transaction 2 hours ago but i got 0/offline (it appears i had 0 connections).. after i restarted my client i have connections again it just sits there as 0/unconfirmed and nothing is updating although blocks are going up.. not even after half an hour..
2062 2011-06-09 15:28:48 <anarchyx> and its 3000 bitcoins :P
2063 2011-06-09 15:28:52 <jrmithdobbs> davex__: you want harsh, here's harsh: http://home.jrbobdobbs.org/mith/diki-solution.jpg
2064 2011-06-09 15:28:53 <diki> lol
2065 2011-06-09 15:28:54 <doublec> anarchyx: I've had to wait hours for something like that to send
2066 2011-06-09 15:28:55 <jrmithdobbs> diki: http://home.jrbobdobbs.org/mith/diki-solution.jpg
2067 2011-06-09 15:29:13 <anarchyx> ah i just got a 1/unconfirmed
2068 2011-06-09 15:29:16 <anarchyx> light in the tunnel
2069 2011-06-09 15:29:17 <anarchyx> :)
2070 2011-06-09 15:29:18 <doublec> magic!
2071 2011-06-09 15:29:28 <jrmithdobbs> ersi: ;P
2072 2011-06-09 15:29:39 <doublec> anarchyx: I can see that many being stressfull :)
2073 2011-06-09 15:29:46 <davex__> haha
2074 2011-06-09 15:30:06 <Wuked> so if i submit a valid block, that is unconfirmed
2075 2011-06-09 15:30:07 <Wuked> and then run
2076 2011-06-09 15:30:08 <Wuked> listtransactions
2077 2011-06-09 15:30:10 <jrmithdobbs> diki: seriously. go buy those two books.
2078 2011-06-09 15:30:13 <diki> i sure would like to pay this dennis ritchie a visit
2079 2011-06-09 15:30:19 <diki> and make him make my function work
2080 2011-06-09 15:30:24 <Wuked> it'll show up in there with how many confirmations left ?
2081 2011-06-09 15:30:24 <jrmithdobbs> diki: read them. learn them. live them.
2082 2011-06-09 15:30:28 <jrmithdobbs> diki: you will be better for this.
2083 2011-06-09 15:30:45 <vegard> jrmithdobbs: hoho
2084 2011-06-09 15:30:50 <doublec> Wuked: if you submit a valid block, then do a listtransactions you will see it as immature with 0 confirmations
2085 2011-06-09 15:31:44 <doublec> Wuked: looks like this http://pastebin.com/0gacBa1b
2086 2011-06-09 15:31:51 <diki> if he has a cron set to wait a minute before checking, another block can be solved in the network causing that block to have 1 confirm
2087 2011-06-09 15:31:54 <doublec> (except that has 3 confirmations)
2088 2011-06-09 15:32:37 <doublec> and that's a namecoin block so no point looking up the transaction id
2089 2011-06-09 15:33:02 <diki> doublec, and what will he do in this situation? http://pastebin.com/f8veqvtB
2090 2011-06-09 15:33:41 takezo420 has joined
2091 2011-06-09 15:33:43 <doublec> diki: write code to handle it?
2092 2011-06-09 15:34:03 <doublec> how does that even happen? All with the same txid.
2093 2011-06-09 15:34:10 <doublec> and confirmation number
2094 2011-06-09 15:34:11 <diki> it's an example ...
2095 2011-06-09 15:34:18 <doublec> oh, so it'll never happen then
2096 2011-06-09 15:34:19 <doublec> easy
2097 2011-06-09 15:34:31 <diki> yes, multiple transactions can and will happen
2098 2011-06-09 15:34:39 <doublec> not with the same confirmation count it won't
2099 2011-06-09 15:34:54 <io_error> jrmithdobbs: Advanced programming in the what environment?
2100 2011-06-09 15:34:56 <diki> sure
2101 2011-06-09 15:35:04 <diki> but still, there no accurate way to fetch the confirmations
2102 2011-06-09 15:35:17 <io_error> I recognized the other Holy Text easily...
2103 2011-06-09 15:35:34 <doublec> io_error: unix environment
2104 2011-06-09 15:36:00 <io_error> Hmm. I've been in something like it for a couple of decades, almost :)
2105 2011-06-09 15:36:08 <anarchyx> doublec: for sure lol
2106 2011-06-09 15:36:18 kreal- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2107 2011-06-09 15:36:41 <diki> old book is old though
2108 2011-06-09 15:37:02 <ersi> old doesn't mean bad or irrelevant
2109 2011-06-09 15:37:16 <jrmithdobbs> diki: APUE is the definitive reference
2110 2011-06-09 15:37:28 <jrmithdobbs> as is K&R
2111 2011-06-09 15:37:42 <Wuked> ;;bc,calcd 665000 77
2112 2011-06-09 15:37:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 665000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77, is 8 minutes and 17 seconds
2113 2011-06-09 15:37:46 * diki hopes dennis ritchie dies...
2114 2011-06-09 15:37:52 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2115 2011-06-09 15:38:05 kermit has joined
2116 2011-06-09 15:38:19 <Wuked> come on testnet give me some love :)
2117 2011-06-09 15:38:44 <diki> i thought there was suppose to be a revision of C++ this year
2118 2011-06-09 15:38:45 vokoda has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2119 2011-06-09 15:38:58 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
2120 2011-06-09 15:39:08 <doublec> diki: if he saw your code he might
2121 2011-06-09 15:39:44 vokoda has joined
2122 2011-06-09 15:40:46 kreal- has joined
2123 2011-06-09 15:41:02 <diki> my 5870 comes in tomorrow
2124 2011-06-09 15:41:14 <diki> with an extra block of ram.
2125 2011-06-09 15:41:23 <diki> let's hope my motherboard will like it
2126 2011-06-09 15:42:06 pnicholson has joined
2127 2011-06-09 15:43:36 <vegard> I'm crossing my fingers for you
2128 2011-06-09 15:44:11 <io_error> Bah, I bought a bunch of parts for my mining rig and the mobo was bad.
2129 2011-06-09 15:44:56 glassresistor has joined
2130 2011-06-09 15:44:57 <io_error> Worse, RMA takes for freaking ever
2131 2011-06-09 15:46:15 eth00 has left ()
2132 2011-06-09 15:46:19 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2133 2011-06-09 15:46:24 scott`` has joined
2134 2011-06-09 15:46:35 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2135 2011-06-09 15:46:59 <Wuked> i just got 3 x 5850s
2136 2011-06-09 15:47:00 scott` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2137 2011-06-09 15:47:05 <Wuked> turns out you can't tri xfire them!
2138 2011-06-09 15:47:13 jivvz has joined
2139 2011-06-09 15:48:49 kluge has quit (Quit: ....)
2140 2011-06-09 15:49:38 <diki> erm you can
2141 2011-06-09 15:50:37 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
2142 2011-06-09 15:50:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129599 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1440 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 18 hours, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 733857.13684247
2143 2011-06-09 15:51:19 <falafell2> you guys think PAR is a good way of securely spreading your wallet?
2144 2011-06-09 15:51:19 magnetron has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2145 2011-06-09 15:52:50 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2146 2011-06-09 15:54:23 esionvo has joined
2147 2011-06-09 15:54:27 <vegard> the ultimate backup is to encrypt your secret keys and stuff them in a transaction
2148 2011-06-09 15:54:40 <esionvo> What happens if I receive a payment like 1.234 BTC and my client recognizes only up to 2 decimal points? Will I be able to just use 1.23 BTC from that address until I upgrade to software that will then see the remaining 0.004 on it?
2149 2011-06-09 15:55:20 <falafell2> vegard, i prefer to use my keys instead of the wallet file, but there's no easy way to extract keys yet afaik
2150 2011-06-09 15:56:20 <vegard> wasn't there something like.. dbdump utility or something? I was sure I saw it on the forums
2151 2011-06-09 15:56:53 Archevety has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
2152 2011-06-09 15:56:55 <falafell2> there are several tools/sources available that can do it yea, but not something easy to use
2153 2011-06-09 15:57:09 <falafell2> it should be a trigger for inside bitcoin i think
2154 2011-06-09 15:57:13 <RenaKunisaki> I wonder if it's possible to do GPU mining on a Wii? It has an ATI GPU that's rather well-documented...
2155 2011-06-09 15:57:28 <RenaKunisaki> getting full control over the hardware is a piece of cake >.>
2156 2011-06-09 15:58:03 <falafell2> RenaKunisaki, but would it be worth it? the wii graphics are pretty horrible so i don't think there's much power in it
2157 2011-06-09 15:58:26 <RenaKunisaki> true, but the Wii is also designed to consume little power...
2158 2011-06-09 15:58:47 <falafell2> true
2159 2011-06-09 15:59:00 torsthaldo has joined
2160 2011-06-09 15:59:02 <RenaKunisaki> as long as you're generating more than it costs to run the machine, you're turning a profit at least
2161 2011-06-09 15:59:06 <falafell2> well make  your wii rig tell us how it goes xD
2162 2011-06-09 15:59:12 <RenaKunisaki> :p
2163 2011-06-09 15:59:25 <RenaKunisaki> I'd rather use my X360, but I'd have to mod it first
2164 2011-06-09 15:59:42 <RenaKunisaki> those aren't as easy to mod as a Wii
2165 2011-06-09 16:00:03 <falafell2> doesnt MS use nvidia stuff?
2166 2011-06-09 16:00:18 <RenaKunisaki> I think so
2167 2011-06-09 16:02:03 <ali1234> can the wii run linux and use the fglrx driver? if so, you can mine on it
2168 2011-06-09 16:02:54 <RenaKunisaki> there's a Linux build for it, but it's not really maintained AFAIK...
2169 2011-06-09 16:03:00 <RenaKunisaki> mostly just a proof of concept
2170 2011-06-09 16:03:28 Sedra has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2171 2011-06-09 16:04:04 Sedra has joined
2172 2011-06-09 16:04:25 <ali1234> GPU: ATI graphics 243 MHz
2173 2011-06-09 16:05:05 <ali1234> i doubt that even has the hardware required for running opencl etc
2174 2011-06-09 16:05:29 <ali1234> and there's no driver for it anyway apparently
2175 2011-06-09 16:06:21 osmosis has joined
2176 2011-06-09 16:07:04 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
2177 2011-06-09 16:08:19 phlax has joined
2178 2011-06-09 16:09:41 picci has joined
2179 2011-06-09 16:10:03 <picci> guys, how do i set bitcoind to not send the 0.01 fee when i'm moving bitcoins around?
2180 2011-06-09 16:11:20 <D0han> annoying, inst? ;D
2181 2011-06-09 16:11:55 <picci> :|
2182 2011-06-09 16:11:56 p0s has joined
2183 2011-06-09 16:13:06 pnicholson has joined
2184 2011-06-09 16:13:30 <picci> are we stuck with it or is there a way to avoid it ? :)
2185 2011-06-09 16:14:08 <D0han> is there paper with list of functions (in bitcoin client) + few words what it should do?
2186 2011-06-09 16:14:55 <D0han> picci: make small transactions to gather up btc parts in one key
2187 2011-06-09 16:15:07 <D0han> send all to new wallet or smth
2188 2011-06-09 16:15:12 <D0han> in parts, of course
2189 2011-06-09 16:15:18 <Wuked> ;;bc,calcd 665000 77
2190 2011-06-09 16:15:19 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 665000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 77, is 8 minutes and 17 seconds
2191 2011-06-09 16:15:20 <D0han> then larger, etc
2192 2011-06-09 16:18:06 MaxSan has joined
2193 2011-06-09 16:18:17 <MaxSan> hey everyone
2194 2011-06-09 16:18:34 <MaxSan> has anyone down a flex based application for mining from the GPU
2195 2011-06-09 16:18:42 <MaxSan> or anyone have some resources for me to look at
2196 2011-06-09 16:18:46 <MaxSan> as im considering doing this myself
2197 2011-06-09 16:20:16 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2198 2011-06-09 16:21:14 DD- has quit ()
2199 2011-06-09 16:21:29 d4de has joined
2200 2011-06-09 16:22:38 <Wuked> I've been mining testnet for 40 minutes now at 650Mh/s
2201 2011-06-09 16:22:56 <Wuked> and all of my pushpool upstream_result values are NULL
2202 2011-06-09 16:23:10 <Wuked> is this just unlucky, or likely something is wrong ? :/
2203 2011-06-09 16:23:14 d1234 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2204 2011-06-09 16:23:17 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
2205 2011-06-09 16:23:37 pRjck3vC has joined
2206 2011-06-09 16:26:56 slush1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2207 2011-06-09 16:30:30 AnatolV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2208 2011-06-09 16:31:56 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
2209 2011-06-09 16:35:34 <diki> unluck
2210 2011-06-09 16:35:48 <diki> I got lucky mining a full block with pushpool though
2211 2011-06-09 16:35:53 <diki> current diff
2212 2011-06-09 16:36:13 <diki> Someone explain what is this "H not zero" thing?
2213 2011-06-09 16:38:59 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2214 2011-06-09 16:39:26 B0g4r7_ has joined
2215 2011-06-09 16:40:42 d4de has joined
2216 2011-06-09 16:41:13 AntiVigilante has joined
2217 2011-06-09 16:41:17 bitcoiner has joined
2218 2011-06-09 16:41:22 <AntiVigilante> hi
2219 2011-06-09 16:41:27 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2220 2011-06-09 16:41:27 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
2221 2011-06-09 16:42:06 <AntiVigilante> I get a type mismatch when sadding a comment to a move
2222 2011-06-09 16:42:25 takezo420 has joined
2223 2011-06-09 16:43:14 anddam has joined
2224 2011-06-09 16:43:15 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
2225 2011-06-09 16:43:16 <anddam> hello
2226 2011-06-09 16:43:40 <anddam> while building on OS X should I get a bitcoind executable?
2227 2011-06-09 16:44:02 vurte has left ()
2228 2011-06-09 16:44:11 <anddam> I just run the client using 'bitcoin' without having GUI app running, the process stuck there, after a while I read a
2229 2011-06-09 16:44:14 <anddam> ../src/osx/core/bitmap.cpp(590): assert "err == noErr" failed in GetIconRef(): Error when constructing icon ref
2230 2011-06-09 16:44:47 <anddam> that sounds harmless (icon reference) but I couldn't get anything from the process
2231 2011-06-09 16:44:51 <Wuked> what if you use bitcoind ?
2232 2011-06-09 16:44:58 <anddam> I don't have any
2233 2011-06-09 16:45:09 <anddam> that's why I asked
2234 2011-06-09 16:45:11 DukeOfURL has joined
2235 2011-06-09 16:45:26 <Wuked> just download the binary ?
2236 2011-06-09 16:45:33 <anddam> I thought that maybe a single "bitcoin" process would act as daemon if it wouldn't find one but even a second instance got stuck
2237 2011-06-09 16:45:55 <anddam> Wuked: the point isn't running bitcoind
2238 2011-06-09 16:46:11 <anddam> I'm trying to figure if my building is safe
2239 2011-06-09 16:46:22 <Wuked> ah ok
2240 2011-06-09 16:46:33 <anddam> I noticed that real memory on first instance grew to ~ 70Mb while second was still at 11MB
2241 2011-06-09 16:46:34 <AntiVigilante> I get a type mismatch when adding a comment to a bitcoind move
2242 2011-06-09 16:46:41 <anddam> then I killed both
2243 2011-06-09 16:47:10 <anddam> does 'bitcoin' without arguments (specifically not '-server') acts as daemon?
2244 2011-06-09 16:47:41 <anddam> when bitcoin is running should I use JSON-API to save wallet.dat rather than copying from fs?
2245 2011-06-09 16:48:11 <AntiVigilante> you mean backupwallet command?
2246 2011-06-09 16:49:58 <anddam> yes
2247 2011-06-09 16:50:01 <anddam> I do
2248 2011-06-09 16:51:08 BurningToad has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2249 2011-06-09 16:51:29 BurningToad has joined
2250 2011-06-09 16:52:30 Noviz has joined
2251 2011-06-09 16:52:42 <anddam> I see, bitcoind is a specific target
2252 2011-06-09 16:52:48 sipa has joined
2253 2011-06-09 16:53:06 <anddam> AntiVigilante: any reply?
2254 2011-06-09 16:53:21 <AntiVigilante> ?
2255 2011-06-09 16:53:43 <AntiVigilante> adding comments is not working
2256 2011-06-09 16:53:46 <jrmithdobbs> jesus christ
2257 2011-06-09 16:53:51 <jrmithdobbs> worst starbucks wifi ever
2258 2011-06-09 16:53:53 <AntiVigilante> for bitcoind move
2259 2011-06-09 16:54:03 <AntiVigilante> 0.3.21
2260 2011-06-09 16:54:09 Noviz has left ()
2261 2011-06-09 16:54:14 <jrmithdobbs> 25% packet loss and 400ms-2000ms latency
2262 2011-06-09 16:54:19 <AntiVigilante> lol
2263 2011-06-09 16:54:32 <AntiVigilante> some guy torrenting there?
2264 2011-06-09 16:54:39 ajf has joined
2265 2011-06-09 16:54:40 <ajf> Hey
2266 2011-06-09 16:55:07 <ajf> Is this the right place for bitcoin client dev?
2267 2011-06-09 16:55:07 <ajf> Like, the channel for discussing development of Bitcoin, the software?
2268 2011-06-09 16:55:11 <jrmithdobbs> i dunno but i'm just gonna tether this shit aint workin
2269 2011-06-09 16:55:12 CIA-93 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2270 2011-06-09 16:55:15 <anddam> AntiVigilante: I asked if I had to use JSON-API, you asked for a clarification and I answered so I was expecting an anwser to my original question
2271 2011-06-09 16:55:24 <anddam> AntiVigilante: and I'm a torrenting guy
2272 2011-06-09 16:55:27 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2273 2011-06-09 16:55:43 takezo420 has joined
2274 2011-06-09 16:55:44 <anddam> AntiVigilante: my bad, I read "here" not "there"
2275 2011-06-09 16:57:20 <AntiVigilante> you might want to use the backupwallet command
2276 2011-06-09 16:57:29 <AntiVigilante> s'posed to be safer
2277 2011-06-09 16:57:33 Titeuf_87 has joined
2278 2011-06-09 16:57:41 <ajf> Er
2279 2011-06-09 16:57:51 <ajf> Say I wanted to help develop the bitcoin client
2280 2011-06-09 16:57:52 <jrmithdobbs> you know your wifi sucks when sprint wimax tethering is less latent *inside*
2281 2011-06-09 16:57:55 <jrmithdobbs> ha
2282 2011-06-09 16:57:55 <MaxSan> anyone have any idea baout coding a miner into flash?
2283 2011-06-09 16:57:56 <ajf> How could I get started
2284 2011-06-09 16:57:59 <MaxSan> or with flash i should say
2285 2011-06-09 16:57:59 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2286 2011-06-09 16:58:00 <ajf> Where's the source?
2287 2011-06-09 16:58:06 <MaxSan> anyone suggest any resources for me to get started
2288 2011-06-09 16:58:10 <ajf> MaxSan: Flash has no OpenCL support, correct?
2289 2011-06-09 16:58:15 <MaxSan> im not sure
2290 2011-06-09 16:58:19 <MaxSan> thats what I was wonderin
2291 2011-06-09 16:58:20 <MaxSan> g
2292 2011-06-09 16:58:21 <ajf> I doubt it
2293 2011-06-09 16:58:30 <ajf> MaxSan: See bitcoinplus.com
2294 2011-06-09 16:58:32 <ajf> Java miner
2295 2011-06-09 16:58:36 <ajf> Uses cpu
2296 2011-06-09 16:58:40 <MaxSan> mmm
2297 2011-06-09 16:59:31 CIA-31 has joined
2298 2011-06-09 17:00:07 <sipa> ajf: start at github.com/bitcoin
2299 2011-06-09 17:00:07 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2300 2011-06-09 17:00:17 <ajf> sipa: yeah, found it
2301 2011-06-09 17:00:18 <anddam> AntiVigilante: safer like Bitcoin current wallet could not be synced with disk content?
2302 2011-06-09 17:00:21 <ajf> I'm amazed I missed that
2303 2011-06-09 17:00:31 Chopes has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2304 2011-06-09 17:03:25 takezo420 has quit (Read error: Network is unreachable)
2305 2011-06-09 17:04:09 takezo420 has joined
2306 2011-06-09 17:05:22 <ajf> Hey guys, tiny, but obvious suggestion that would really help usability
2307 2011-06-09 17:05:55 <iocor> is there anywhere where I can read what the data returned by the getwork rpc actually means?
2308 2011-06-09 17:05:55 <ajf> split the "Address Book" into "My Receiving Addresses" and "Address Book"
2309 2011-06-09 17:06:07 <ajf> as in, two buttons, not different tabs in Address Book
2310 2011-06-09 17:06:11 <ajf> it would confuse new users less
2311 2011-06-09 17:06:26 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: wallet code needs to be finished being revamped first imho
2312 2011-06-09 17:06:40 <ajf> It's *unfinished*?
2313 2011-06-09 17:06:48 <ajf> Oh, you mean like how you can't delete?
2314 2011-06-09 17:06:51 <jrmithdobbs> no it's being re-worked to split it out more logically
2315 2011-06-09 17:06:54 Chopes has joined
2316 2011-06-09 17:07:01 <ajf> well
2317 2011-06-09 17:07:04 <jrmithdobbs> right now it's a bunch of little pieces of random other classes
2318 2011-06-09 17:07:09 <ajf> ah
2319 2011-06-09 17:07:10 <ajf> well
2320 2011-06-09 17:07:19 <sipa> what ajf is suggesting is just a GUI fixup
2321 2011-06-09 17:07:21 <ajf> what I am suggesting would take maybe a minute to do
2322 2011-06-09 17:07:21 <jrmithdobbs> there's a pull in that's, I think, planned for integration in 4.4
2323 2011-06-09 17:07:28 <ajf> yes
2324 2011-06-09 17:07:33 <jrmithdobbs> oh i read that wrong
2325 2011-06-09 17:07:35 <sipa> that's quite independent from any code reorganisation
2326 2011-06-09 17:07:50 <ajf> Not a revamp, but a tiny GUI change that would help usability
2327 2011-06-09 17:07:53 <sipa> but though we have quite some people who are confortable working in the sourc code
2328 2011-06-09 17:08:02 <sipa> there are very few who want to touch the wxwindows code
2329 2011-06-09 17:08:08 <jrmithdobbs> ya
2330 2011-06-09 17:08:15 <jrmithdobbs> i wont touch it
2331 2011-06-09 17:08:18 <sipa> myself being one of them
2332 2011-06-09 17:08:26 <ajf> Heh. Let's see what I can do..
2333 2011-06-09 17:08:29 <ajf> $ git clone
2334 2011-06-09 17:08:36 <ali1234> i can't blame them, i did some wx programming once- it's horrible
2335 2011-06-09 17:08:38 <jrmithdobbs> not the least reason for hich is that I hardly ever see the gui in the first place, heh
2336 2011-06-09 17:08:39 garvusin has joined
2337 2011-06-09 17:08:42 <sipa> ajf: if you can do it, please do, and submit a pull request
2338 2011-06-09 17:09:00 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2339 2011-06-09 17:09:05 <ajf> I am doing so :)
2340 2011-06-09 17:09:19 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: i really hope that qt gui becomes usable soon
2341 2011-06-09 17:09:19 <AntiVigilante> ajf wxwindowx 2.8 is replacing wxwindows 2.9 I think
2342 2011-06-09 17:09:22 <ajf> Also, I'll fix the translations accordingly where possible
2343 2011-06-09 17:09:26 <ajf> I know some spanish and german
2344 2011-06-09 17:09:37 <gmaxwell> ajf: I don't use the GUI so I don't understand what you're suggesting, but I'm curious about it.  Why?
2345 2011-06-09 17:09:37 <sipa> ajf: some, or good? :)
2346 2011-06-09 17:09:48 <ajf> sipa: some :P
2347 2011-06-09 17:09:48 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i really want core functionality completely stripped out of the gui client and libbitcoin to be born
2348 2011-06-09 17:09:53 <ajf> and some Japanese... heh
2349 2011-06-09 17:10:00 <ajf> gmaxwell: I'll explain
2350 2011-06-09 17:10:01 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: that's the goal
2351 2011-06-09 17:10:02 flok has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2352 2011-06-09 17:10:10 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i know ;P
2353 2011-06-09 17:10:11 <ajf> atm, there is an "Address Book" button in the GUI
2354 2011-06-09 17:10:14 garvusin2 has joined
2355 2011-06-09 17:10:17 <ajf> it has a receiving and sending tab
2356 2011-06-09 17:10:19 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i'm just glad it's buildable without wx at this point
2357 2011-06-09 17:10:30 <ajf> This is bad. People assume Address Book contains other people's addresses
2358 2011-06-09 17:10:34 <ajf> Not your own receiving addresses
2359 2011-06-09 17:10:36 <jrmithdobbs> gotta be thankful for the little things ;P
2360 2011-06-09 17:10:37 <sipa> ajf: i tend to agree
2361 2011-06-09 17:10:46 Garvus has joined
2362 2011-06-09 17:10:56 <gmaxwell> ajf: ahhh!
2363 2011-06-09 17:11:09 <jrmithdobbs> anyways i need to finish writing up this invoice
2364 2011-06-09 17:11:17 <ajf> gmaxwell: So yeah, I'll split it into "Address Book" and "My Receiving Addrsses"
2365 2011-06-09 17:11:23 TD has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2366 2011-06-09 17:11:29 takezo420 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2367 2011-06-09 17:11:49 <gmaxwell> ajf: hm, does even having a book of other people's addresses make sense?  e.g. you're likely to create confusion by paying into old intended-as-one-time addresses.
2368 2011-06-09 17:11:54 <AntiVigilante> ajf actually why not call them "Accounts" "Accounts:Receiving Addresses" "Address Book"
2369 2011-06-09 17:11:57 <AntiVigilante> because Accounts contain multiple addresses
2370 2011-06-09 17:12:09 <ajf> AntiVigilante: I thought that.
2371 2011-06-09 17:12:12 <sipa> AntiVigilante: the gui doesn't support accounts
2372 2011-06-09 17:12:13 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2373 2011-06-09 17:12:16 <ajf> But the GUI is currently based arround a single account
2374 2011-06-09 17:12:17 <sipa> it just uses them as labels
2375 2011-06-09 17:12:19 <ajf> So I won't do that
2376 2011-06-09 17:12:21 flok has joined
2377 2011-06-09 17:12:26 takezo420 has joined
2378 2011-06-09 17:12:28 <sipa> the account concept is only usable from RPC
2379 2011-06-09 17:12:45 <AntiVigilante> sipa it enables double bookkeeping
2380 2011-06-09 17:13:00 <AntiVigilante> which is necessary as I am doing loans to ppl
2381 2011-06-09 17:13:03 garvusin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2382 2011-06-09 17:13:38 <sipa> AntiVigilante: i know what it is, and that it's useful - just saying it's not implemented, and requires somewhat more work than splitting the address book
2383 2011-06-09 17:13:57 <ajf> woo, 101MB of wxwidgets to download... :<
2384 2011-06-09 17:14:12 takezo420 has quit (Read error: Network is unreachable)
2385 2011-06-09 17:14:14 garvusin has joined
2386 2011-06-09 17:14:21 <sipa> ?
2387 2011-06-09 17:14:27 garvusin2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2388 2011-06-09 17:14:49 <AntiVigilante> now what about the comments on RPC they don't work
2389 2011-06-09 17:15:00 <ajf> oh what, English message IDs
2390 2011-06-09 17:15:01 * AntiVigilante kisses his .bash_history
2391 2011-06-09 17:15:04 <ajf> that makes me sad :<
2392 2011-06-09 17:15:08 takezo420 has joined
2393 2011-06-09 17:15:22 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: oh wow, really? the gui doesn't understand the accounts stuff?
2394 2011-06-09 17:15:22 <AntiVigilante> message IDs?
2395 2011-06-09 17:15:27 <jrmithdobbs> i never noticed that
2396 2011-06-09 17:15:32 <jrmithdobbs> shows how much i look at the gui, haha
2397 2011-06-09 17:15:35 Garvus has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2398 2011-06-09 17:16:36 <AntiVigilante> does kde still use moc and what's it do exactly?
2399 2011-06-09 17:16:42 <gmaxwell> The account stuff is kinda kludgy right now.
2400 2011-06-09 17:16:52 <sipa> ajf: which language would you have preferred then? :)
2401 2011-06-09 17:16:57 <sipa> just numbers/
2402 2011-06-09 17:16:59 <ajf> no
2403 2011-06-09 17:17:00 <ajf> I mean
2404 2011-06-09 17:17:07 <ajf> don't use full english strings
2405 2011-06-09 17:17:13 tophattrick has joined
2406 2011-06-09 17:17:22 <ajf> Something like, er
2407 2011-06-09 17:17:26 <tophattrick> .j #bitcoin-market
2408 2011-06-09 17:17:34 <tophattrick> sorry about that
2409 2011-06-09 17:17:38 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: they're all overridable (and are already for many different langs)
2410 2011-06-09 17:17:50 <ajf> "HELP_OPTIONAL_FEE" instead of "Optional transaction fee per KB that helps make sure your transactions are processed quickly.  Most transactions are 1KB.  Fee 0.01 recommended."
2411 2011-06-09 17:18:00 alystair has joined
2412 2011-06-09 17:18:05 <sipa> it's a lot more readable this way
2413 2011-06-09 17:18:13 <alystair> hi all
2414 2011-06-09 17:18:17 <ajf> sipa: The former or latter?
2415 2011-06-09 17:18:19 garvusin2 has joined
2416 2011-06-09 17:18:24 <sipa> ajf: the way it is now
2417 2011-06-09 17:18:26 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: everyone always argues about that i18n semantic
2418 2011-06-09 17:18:39 garvusin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2419 2011-06-09 17:18:43 <ajf> Well, my complaint is what if the english changes...?
2420 2011-06-09 17:18:48 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: if bitcoin did it the other way you describe there'd just be someone else requesting it be done the way it is now ;P
2421 2011-06-09 17:18:55 <ajf> heh
2422 2011-06-09 17:18:57 d4de has joined
2423 2011-06-09 17:19:05 Kurtov has joined
2424 2011-06-09 17:19:13 <sipa> ajf: gettext will take care of that
2425 2011-06-09 17:19:32 MartianW has joined
2426 2011-06-09 17:19:32 sabalaba has joined
2427 2011-06-09 17:19:33 MartianW has quit (Changing host)
2428 2011-06-09 17:19:33 MartianW has joined
2429 2011-06-09 17:19:42 <ajf> I hope so :/
2430 2011-06-09 17:19:48 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: tbqh it's already done and it works, no reason to change it. (I do agree with you in general on new projects though.)
2431 2011-06-09 17:19:55 <ajf> well
2432 2011-06-09 17:20:03 <ajf> I am endorsing the way I did it for my site
2433 2011-06-09 17:20:25 <ajf> Which is now dead, but I wrote a function and some tables of text for it
2434 2011-06-09 17:20:26 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
2435 2011-06-09 17:20:52 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
2436 2011-06-09 17:20:52 <gribble> 129611
2437 2011-06-09 17:21:32 <jrmithdobbs> so
2438 2011-06-09 17:21:36 <jrmithdobbs> more coffee or more coffee?
2439 2011-06-09 17:21:49 <alystair> try an americano?
2440 2011-06-09 17:21:57 <jrmithdobbs> nah
2441 2011-06-09 17:22:04 <jrmithdobbs> short quad w/steamed heavy cream
2442 2011-06-09 17:22:09 <alystair> more coffee it is then :)
2443 2011-06-09 17:22:19 garvusin has joined
2444 2011-06-09 17:22:24 <jrmithdobbs> i'd do it straight but starbuck's push button machines suck ass
2445 2011-06-09 17:22:30 garvusin2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2446 2011-06-09 17:22:41 garvusin has quit (Client Quit)
2447 2011-06-09 17:23:02 <jrmithdobbs> and the good barista at the place i like isn't on shift until 1700cst ;P
2448 2011-06-09 17:23:35 <drazak> ewww starbucks
2449 2011-06-09 17:23:42 <drazak> we have a local place
2450 2011-06-09 17:23:47 takezo420 has joined
2451 2011-06-09 17:23:50 <drazak> I like a short or tall quad breve
2452 2011-06-09 17:24:07 <drazak> they have a new espresso that works really well for that
2453 2011-06-09 17:24:52 <jrmithdobbs> meh, starbucks is drinkable so long as you cover the espresso with some kind of milk product ;P
2454 2011-06-09 17:25:05 <drazak> not as much body as other varieties they've had, for a straight shot, but very good flavor
2455 2011-06-09 17:25:11 <drazak> yeah
2456 2011-06-09 17:25:17 <jrmithdobbs> would never ever drink a straight shot from starbucks though and that's my prefered coffee ingest method ;P
2457 2011-06-09 17:25:37 <drazak> hehe
2458 2011-06-09 17:25:38 <ajf> er
2459 2011-06-09 17:25:40 <ajf> In file included from util.cpp:4:0:
2460 2011-06-09 17:25:40 <ajf> headers.h:43:20: fatal error: db_cxx.h: No such file or directory
2461 2011-06-09 17:25:40 <ajf> compilation terminated.
2462 2011-06-09 17:25:46 <ajf> Any help?
2463 2011-06-09 17:25:52 <drazak> I dislike all coffee from starbucks
2464 2011-06-09 17:25:56 <drazak> but if I'm in need of caffeine
2465 2011-06-09 17:26:01 <jrmithdobbs> drazak: i should take a camera shot of the long pull my guy does for me at the other place.
2466 2011-06-09 17:26:12 <gmaxwell> ajf: need Berkeley DB headers.
2467 2011-06-09 17:26:19 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: mhm, I like about a 36
2468 2011-06-09 17:26:19 <jrmithdobbs> drazak: most beautiful crema ever! ;P
2469 2011-06-09 17:26:22 <ajf> gmaxwell: package name (guess)?
2470 2011-06-09 17:26:41 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: they have semi-auto machines at the place I go, no hand pull but hand tamp and grind, so they can control it pretty well
2471 2011-06-09 17:26:48 <jrmithdobbs> drazak: i keep telling them to replace the stock espresso shot image on their menu with a picture of one of his, lol
2472 2011-06-09 17:27:04 * ajf afk dinner
2473 2011-06-09 17:27:19 <jrmithdobbs> drazak: i forget the name of the manufacturer but this place has a real old school awesome machine
2474 2011-06-09 17:27:26 <jrmithdobbs> push button isn't even an option on it.
2475 2011-06-09 17:27:28 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: La Pavoni?
2476 2011-06-09 17:27:28 <gmaxwell> ajf: db4_cxx
2477 2011-06-09 17:28:25 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: starbucks has "fully automatic" and they don't get much crema on their shots because they do ~18-22 second shots, nasty ass coffee
2478 2011-06-09 17:28:45 <ajf> gmaxwell: thanks
2479 2011-06-09 17:29:01 <jrmithdobbs> drazak: actually
2480 2011-06-09 17:29:22 <jrmithdobbs> drazak: as a test, i took some of their house espresso roast to my place .... it's not the coffee, needless to say.
2481 2011-06-09 17:29:28 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2482 2011-06-09 17:29:36 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: yeah
2483 2011-06-09 17:29:43 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: althought I don't like any of their coffee blends
2484 2011-06-09 17:29:49 <jrmithdobbs> not a huge fan myself
2485 2011-06-09 17:29:52 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: well, there's one of them I like, but eh
2486 2011-06-09 17:30:03 <jrmithdobbs> but i lean towards ethiopian med roasts ;P
2487 2011-06-09 17:30:09 <jrmithdobbs> and that's just something they don't offer
2488 2011-06-09 17:30:20 <drazak> :D
2489 2011-06-09 17:30:28 <drazak> I love the mouthfeel of a good eathiopian
2490 2011-06-09 17:30:36 takezo420 has left ()
2491 2011-06-09 17:30:45 <jrmithdobbs> ya, it's a shame more places don't use it for espresso
2492 2011-06-09 17:30:47 <gmaxwell> There are ~6 starbucks within 2 miles of where I live and no other coffee shops. :-/
2493 2011-06-09 17:30:55 <drazak> ouch
2494 2011-06-09 17:31:10 <jrmithdobbs> they all do those burnt/"dark" italian blends for espresso
2495 2011-06-09 17:31:13 <jrmithdobbs> because they're retards
2496 2011-06-09 17:31:23 <jrmithdobbs> i want to punch them
2497 2011-06-09 17:31:36 <ajf> gmaxwell: that package... doesn't exist. Google seems to be no help :<
2498 2011-06-09 17:31:59 Wuked1 has joined
2499 2011-06-09 17:32:11 <ajf> oh
2500 2011-06-09 17:32:14 <ajf> found it, finally
2501 2011-06-09 17:32:30 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: what distro? should be bdb-dev or libdb-dev or libbdb-devel etc
2502 2011-06-09 17:32:39 <ajf> jrmithdobbs: oh
2503 2011-06-09 17:32:41 <jrmithdobbs> or one of the above with 46/47/48 before the -
2504 2011-06-09 17:32:46 <ajf> I'll try that
2505 2011-06-09 17:32:49 <ajf> got wrong one
2506 2011-06-09 17:32:49 <gmaxwell> ajf: meh, it's db4-devel in fedora sorry.
2507 2011-06-09 17:33:06 <gmaxwell> actually 7 starbucks in 2mi.
2508 2011-06-09 17:33:08 <ajf> ah. libdb-dev worked
2509 2011-06-09 17:33:10 <ajf> finally
2510 2011-06-09 17:33:21 <ajf> redirected to libdb4.8-dev
2511 2011-06-09 17:33:27 Kurtov has joined
2512 2011-06-09 17:33:41 Wuked has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2513 2011-06-09 17:34:25 * ajf afk
2514 2011-06-09 17:36:15 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
2515 2011-06-09 17:36:41 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: you made me want coffee >.>
2516 2011-06-09 17:36:48 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: I need to get a 1 cupper for the office
2517 2011-06-09 17:37:02 <jrmithdobbs> drazak: i need to get a manual for the house
2518 2011-06-09 17:37:08 gjs278 has joined
2519 2011-06-09 17:37:20 <jrmithdobbs> drazak: gf worked at starbucks when they still used real machines and she pulls a mean shot
2520 2011-06-09 17:37:22 gruez has joined
2521 2011-06-09 17:37:31 <jrmithdobbs> drazak: so i'd have my own personal barista!
2522 2011-06-09 17:37:40 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: nice!
2523 2011-06-09 17:38:02 <jrmithdobbs> i'd end up getting myself beaten eventually though. I can see it now. haha
2524 2011-06-09 17:38:56 Klash_ has joined
2525 2011-06-09 17:39:20 <drazak> lol
2526 2011-06-09 17:39:24 bdmk has joined
2527 2011-06-09 17:39:56 Kurtov has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2528 2011-06-09 17:40:16 alystair has quit (Quit: ┌(・_・)┘OUTTA HERE└(・o・)┐)
2529 2011-06-09 17:40:21 <jrmithdobbs> ok i need to go home before i buy more coffee
2530 2011-06-09 17:41:14 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
2531 2011-06-09 17:42:20 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2533 2011-06-09 17:43:13 ericmock has joined
2534 2011-06-09 17:43:33 alystair has joined
2535 2011-06-09 17:43:42 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: I'm considering buying an aeropress for hte office instead of a 1-cupper
2536 2011-06-09 17:45:39 vorlov has joined
2537 2011-06-09 17:46:23 <Wuked1> I've managed to get a block hash from a pushpool solution
2538 2011-06-09 17:46:40 <Wuked1> is there a better way of turning that hash into the block number
2539 2011-06-09 17:46:50 <Wuked1> than looking it up on blockexplorer ?
2540 2011-06-09 17:46:58 <anarchyx> did artforz cash out and retire btw? :)
2541 2011-06-09 17:47:03 DrewSJ has joined
2542 2011-06-09 17:47:45 Mononofu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2543 2011-06-09 17:49:14 purpleposeidon has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2544 2011-06-09 17:50:02 Incitatus has joined
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2546 2011-06-09 17:52:54 skeledrew has joined
2547 2011-06-09 17:53:23 m00p has joined
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2549 2011-06-09 17:56:45 <gps__> http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=8070
2550 2011-06-09 17:57:17 skeledrew has joined
2551 2011-06-09 17:57:27 <gps__> schumer drafting anti bitcoin legislation... wow
2552 2011-06-09 17:57:58 <Wuked1> he'll probably just make it more popular ;)
2553 2011-06-09 17:58:31 <gmaxwell> gps__: welp, in the off chance it happens it'll be the expected result of people being greedy and not spending to stop him.
2554 2011-06-09 17:58:44 <anddam> does bitcoin use a pid file?
2555 2011-06-09 17:58:47 eoss has joined
2556 2011-06-09 17:59:13 <gps__> it's not like it can stop bitcoin.
2557 2011-06-09 17:59:36 <gmaxwell> ...
2558 2011-06-09 17:59:41 <anddam> sure it can
2559 2011-06-09 17:59:50 <sipa> if that law gets passed, bitcoin has a problem
2560 2011-06-09 17:59:53 Lambdanaut has joined
2561 2011-06-09 18:00:12 <gmaxwell> This is OT for #bitcoin-dev so I won't argue with you here.
2562 2011-06-09 18:00:13 <anddam> 'bitcoin stop' from cli
2563 2011-06-09 18:00:14 <gps__> USA is a small part of the world. sure others may follow, but one country doing it doesn't shut it down everywhere
2564 2011-06-09 18:00:19 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2565 2011-06-09 18:00:38 <gps__> and if people are using bitcoin for illegal things, making it against the law to use bitcoin won't stop the people already doing illegal things with it stop...
2566 2011-06-09 18:00:59 takezo420 has joined
2567 2011-06-09 18:01:01 <sipa> if it's only used for illegal things, it may be a lot less useful
2568 2011-06-09 18:01:07 <gps__> sorry, i'll take the conversation out.
2569 2011-06-09 18:01:11 <sipa> ok
2570 2011-06-09 18:01:13 <sipa> right
2571 2011-06-09 18:01:24 maikmerten has joined
2572 2011-06-09 18:01:42 glicth-mod has joined
2573 2011-06-09 18:01:59 kermit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2574 2011-06-09 18:02:10 karnac has joined
2575 2011-06-09 18:02:22 jaequery has joined
2576 2011-06-09 18:03:38 Mononofu has joined
2577 2011-06-09 18:04:33 <Kireji> ;;bc,mtgox
2578 2011-06-09 18:04:34 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":31.9099,"low":22.8897,"vol":92618,"buy":29.2,"sell":29.2,"last":29.2}}
2579 2011-06-09 18:05:15 <ajf> gmaxwell: Installed, same error
2580 2011-06-09 18:05:22 <ajf> maybe I need the cxx version or something?
2581 2011-06-09 18:06:50 MaxSan has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2582 2011-06-09 18:07:23 <alystair> buy and sell are at same level? o.O
2583 2011-06-09 18:07:37 <alystair> so what's new in the development world here
2584 2011-06-09 18:07:37 <gmaxwell> $ rpm -q -f /usr/include/db4/db_cxx.h
2585 2011-06-09 18:07:38 <gmaxwell> db4-devel-4.8.30-2.fc14.x86_64
2586 2011-06-09 18:08:11 <Wuked1> there is a pdf on howto compile on centos
2587 2011-06-09 18:08:14 <Wuked1> might work for fedora ?
2588 2011-06-09 18:09:32 MartianW has quit (Quit: Bye all.)
2589 2011-06-09 18:10:19 Kolky has joined
2590 2011-06-09 18:10:42 dentldir has joined
2591 2011-06-09 18:11:09 <ajf> gmaxwell: ah
2592 2011-06-09 18:11:11 <ajf> found it
2593 2011-06-09 18:11:11 <gmaxwell> I don't think ajf is on fedora— thats just where I am.
2594 2011-06-09 18:11:12 <ajf> libdb4.8++ libdb4.8++-dev
2595 2011-06-09 18:11:17 <ajf> Ubuntu
2596 2011-06-09 18:12:23 <ajf> "util.cpp:899:14: error: invalid conversion from ‘const wxChar*’ to ‘char’"
2597 2011-06-09 18:12:35 <ajf> Old version of wx? New version? Is bitcoin using wx 2.9?
2598 2011-06-09 18:12:40 <sipa> ajf: seems you're using wx 2.8
2599 2011-06-09 18:12:44 <ajf> yes
2600 2011-06-09 18:12:49 <sipa> the current main branch requires 2.9
2601 2011-06-09 18:12:57 <sipa> there is a patch to make it compatible with 2.8
2602 2011-06-09 18:13:06 <ajf> ah
2603 2011-06-09 18:13:11 <ajf> will get 2.9 then
2604 2011-06-09 18:13:36 * ajf afk
2605 2011-06-09 18:16:08 earthmeLon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2606 2011-06-09 18:16:27 <picci> anyone want bitcoin related domain names?
2607 2011-06-09 18:17:09 MartianW has joined
2608 2011-06-09 18:19:08 earthmeLon has joined
2609 2011-06-09 18:21:26 <jrmithdobbs> lol, a guy who is for the right of the nsa/etc to illegal wiretap citizens wants to outlaw bitcoin
2610 2011-06-09 18:21:30 <jrmithdobbs> I'M SHOCKED
2611 2011-06-09 18:22:41 <MartianW> Gasp!
2612 2011-06-09 18:22:53 <jrmithdobbs> also voted for stupid border fence
2613 2011-06-09 18:23:07 <MartianW> A literal fence?
2614 2011-06-09 18:24:04 <ajf> o.O
2615 2011-06-09 18:24:25 <jrmithdobbs> alyes
2616 2011-06-09 18:24:29 <jrmithdobbs> he also voted for the anti-flag-burning law, lol
2617 2011-06-09 18:24:29 <jrmithdobbs> what a douchembag
2618 2011-06-09 18:24:29 <jrmithdobbs> also voted for patriot act
2619 2011-06-09 18:24:29 <jrmithdobbs> aoeu
2620 2011-06-09 18:24:39 <jrmithdobbs> yay lag
2621 2011-06-09 18:25:22 <jrmithdobbs> also voted for the  banking industries proposed bankruptcy changes (that passed)
2622 2011-06-09 18:25:35 <jrmithdobbs> ya, i'm absolutely shocked this guy what's to ban bitcoin *rolleyes*
2623 2011-06-09 18:25:40 <jrmithdobbs> s/what's/wants/
2624 2011-06-09 18:27:07 <jrmithdobbs> LOL he also sponsored the DMCA
2625 2011-06-09 18:27:17 TommyBoy3G has quit ()
2626 2011-06-09 18:27:19 <jrmithdobbs> ya this isn't surprising at all.
2627 2011-06-09 18:29:51 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: no mater what they think they might be able to controle there is a work around to surcumvent
2628 2011-06-09 18:30:04 RBecker has joined
2629 2011-06-09 18:30:15 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: doesn't matter if it's technically impossible to stop it.
2630 2011-06-09 18:30:29 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: if it's made illegal in the states it will be very detrimental.
2631 2011-06-09 18:30:37 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: correct
2632 2011-06-09 18:30:38 stahi has joined
2633 2011-06-09 18:30:38 pensan has joined
2634 2011-06-09 18:31:11 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: oh detrimental
2635 2011-06-09 18:31:22 <jrmithdobbs> yes, as in, bad for bitcoin
2636 2011-06-09 18:31:36 <jrmithdobbs> if you outlaw bitcoin only outlaws will have bitcoins ... etc
2637 2011-06-09 18:32:19 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: detrimental like we have for bitorent that's totaly shut them down
2638 2011-06-09 18:33:05 <ajf> lemme guess
2639 2011-06-09 18:33:08 MartianW has left ("Bye all.")
2640 2011-06-09 18:33:11 <ajf> this guy is voting for PROTECT IP
2641 2011-06-09 18:33:16 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2642 2011-06-09 18:33:19 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: forget about getting any music or ?? in the furture
2643 2011-06-09 18:34:35 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: you must not have an understanding of the freedom that the Internet provides that can't be stoped
2644 2011-06-09 18:34:52 <ajf> not the problem
2645 2011-06-09 18:34:57 <ajf> it will taint public opinion
2646 2011-06-09 18:34:59 <ajf> scare them off
2647 2011-06-09 18:35:20 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: also supports DMCA, patriot act, the illegal wiretap legislation, border fence, and those anti-consumer bankruptcy changes
2648 2011-06-09 18:35:29 <ajf> I noticed
2649 2011-06-09 18:35:30 <jrmithdobbs> guy's a retard
2650 2011-06-09 18:35:35 x5x is now known as x5x`brb
2651 2011-06-09 18:35:48 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: 'do not ride' list for amtrak is also one of his grand ideas.
2652 2011-06-09 18:35:51 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: you're talking technical arguments
2653 2011-06-09 18:36:20 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: those don't matter. If noone in the US can legally trade in bitcoins no companies in the US will be able to run any operations related to bitcoin.
2654 2011-06-09 18:36:23 <sacarlson> jrmithdobbs: and you political that can be sucumvented with techs
2655 2011-06-09 18:36:35 x5x`brb is now known as x5x
2656 2011-06-09 18:36:43 takezo420 has left ()
2657 2011-06-09 18:36:54 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: that also means at least 2 (3? I forget if tcatm is in us) of the current lead devs are made defacto criminals.
2658 2011-06-09 18:37:16 <ajf> eh
2659 2011-06-09 18:37:18 <gmaxwell> sacarlson: moreover bitcoin security requires considerable investment in resources. Some tiny underground bitcoin would be at constant risk for chain takeovers.
2660 2011-06-09 18:37:24 cenuij has joined
2661 2011-06-09 18:37:24 cenuij has quit (Changing host)
2662 2011-06-09 18:37:24 cenuij has joined
2663 2011-06-09 18:37:25 <ajf> someone will get it ruled unconstitutional
2664 2011-06-09 18:37:35 <gmaxwell> ajf: probably.
2665 2011-06-09 18:37:46 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: probably. in the mean time we should be focussing on keeping it from ever getting passed.
2666 2011-06-09 18:37:52 <ajf> yep
2667 2011-06-09 18:38:08 <ajf> get satoshi to assasinate him
2668 2011-06-09 18:38:08 <ajf> er
2669 2011-06-09 18:38:13 <ajf> I mean "stop" him
2670 2011-06-09 18:38:31 <gmaxwell> :-/
2671 2011-06-09 18:38:39 <gmaxwell> Don't even joke about that shit.
2672 2011-06-09 18:38:43 <jrmithdobbs> seriously.
2673 2011-06-09 18:38:49 <jrmithdobbs> especially in a publically logged channel.
2674 2011-06-09 18:38:54 <ajf> oh yeah. the US takes anything seriously
2675 2011-06-09 18:38:54 <jrmithdobbs> you just comitted a felony.
2676 2011-06-09 18:39:03 <gmaxwell> People who stand to lose a lot if bitcoin is successful want excuses, don't give them any.
2677 2011-06-09 18:39:07 <ajf> not in the UK I didn't
2678 2011-06-09 18:39:15 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: yes actually, you did.
2679 2011-06-09 18:39:24 <sacarlson> gmaxwell: I didn't tell jrmithdobbs that we have new chains that even if they find a way to stop bitcoin then there is Beertokens and Weeds
2680 2011-06-09 18:39:29 <ajf> jrmithdobbs: oh yeah, i did
2681 2011-06-09 18:39:43 <ajf> Well
2682 2011-06-09 18:39:50 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: go look at your treaty law/etc, seriously, don't joke about that shit
2683 2011-06-09 18:40:02 <ajf> The US secret service interrogated a 13yo kid
2684 2011-06-09 18:40:14 <ajf> he said the president should look out since osama was dead on facebook
2685 2011-06-09 18:40:39 <ajf> Enough making jokes about anything that might be in the slightest bit illegal
2686 2011-06-09 18:40:42 <ajf> Wait, bitcoin
2687 2011-06-09 18:40:43 <sacarlson> but at this time bitcoin is #1
2688 2011-06-09 18:41:10 <gmaxwell> ajf: I know you weren't serious, but that wouldn't be obvious to everyone.
2689 2011-06-09 18:41:36 <ajf> Particularly the stupid people like the guy who wants to stop Bitcoin
2690 2011-06-09 18:41:45 <ajf> Yeah, I'll think twice before saying that next time
2691 2011-06-09 18:41:48 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: just keep the assination jokes out of the official channels is all I'm saying
2692 2011-06-09 18:41:49 <gmaxwell> God knows, someone would take your log and a copy of assassination politics...
2693 2011-06-09 18:41:57 <gmaxwell> right. Danke.
2694 2011-06-09 18:42:07 <jrmithdobbs> we don't need them holding up this irc log snipped after that line to get rid of context being read to a senate comitte
2695 2011-06-09 18:42:22 <ajf> Yeah.
2696 2011-06-09 18:42:26 <jrmithdobbs> and if you think that wont happen .... you need to take a hard look at american computer crime law from the last 20 years
2697 2011-06-09 18:42:30 <jrmithdobbs> :(
2698 2011-06-09 18:42:49 * ajf flees Europe D:
2699 2011-06-09 18:42:50 toffoo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2700 2011-06-09 18:44:09 <sacarlson> and to anounce I have started real bitcoin tradeing with beercoin now on http://exchange.beertokens.info/
2701 2011-06-09 18:44:48 <ajf> But hey
2702 2011-06-09 18:44:54 <ajf> The US currently has PROTECT IP
2703 2011-06-09 18:45:26 <ajf> Your United States of America: Making teh internet less safe for you every step of the way
2704 2011-06-09 18:45:38 eternal1 has joined
2705 2011-06-09 18:46:05 <sacarlson> ajf: so now I will never get a virus from my present IP address?
2706 2011-06-09 18:46:08 <anddam> does bitcoin GUI act as server as well?
2707 2011-06-09 18:46:39 <anddam> I'm tinkering with my backup script, I can't connect to bitcoin server when GUI is running
2708 2011-06-09 18:46:43 <ajf> sacarlson: eh?
2709 2011-06-09 18:46:58 <ajf> anddam: I think it runs server in background
2710 2011-06-09 18:47:01 <ajf> then GUI connects to it
2711 2011-06-09 18:47:11 <ajf> or something like that
2712 2011-06-09 18:47:13 agricocb has joined
2713 2011-06-09 18:47:18 <anddam> I see only one process tho'
2714 2011-06-09 18:47:22 <anddam> the one belonging to gui app
2715 2011-06-09 18:47:25 <sipa> anddam: start it with -server if you want RPC
2716 2011-06-09 18:47:36 <sacarlson> ajf: I'll never get a virus from my POTECT IP ?
2717 2011-06-09 18:47:51 <anddam> sipa: I'm asking because of the automated backup script
2718 2011-06-09 18:47:53 toffoo has joined
2719 2011-06-09 18:48:00 <anddam> so I'm checking if GUI is running and alerting the user (me) to quit it
2720 2011-06-09 18:48:06 <ajf> sacarlson: ...?
2721 2011-06-09 18:48:09 <ajf> no
2722 2011-06-09 18:48:15 <ajf> PROTECT IP breaks DNS SEC
2723 2011-06-09 18:48:21 <jrmithdobbs> yup
2724 2011-06-09 18:48:23 <ajf> making the world less safe from phishing scams
2725 2011-06-09 18:48:32 <jrmithdobbs> fuck PROTECT IP
2726 2011-06-09 18:48:45 <ajf> fuck corporate america...
2727 2011-06-09 18:49:01 <sacarlson> ajf: thank god I'm not in USA
2728 2011-06-09 18:49:10 <ajf> Me too.
2729 2011-06-09 18:49:13 iocor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2730 2011-06-09 18:49:46 <yebyen> does anyone have a system that generates at somewhere around 3.5Ghps?
2731 2011-06-09 18:50:04 <sipa> some people do, sure
2732 2011-06-09 18:50:10 <yebyen> curious what it's built like, what's in it, which software it would run...
2733 2011-06-09 18:50:23 JMercha has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2734 2011-06-09 18:50:26 <yebyen> is that like, 4 5970's?
2735 2011-06-09 18:50:29 <sipa> more
2736 2011-06-09 18:50:38 <sipa> a 5970 won't do more than 800 Mhash/s
2737 2011-06-09 18:50:52 JMercha has joined
2738 2011-06-09 18:50:59 <yebyen> so 4 will get you 3200
2739 2011-06-09 18:51:06 <sipa> up to
2740 2011-06-09 18:51:07 <anddam> at most
2741 2011-06-09 18:51:15 <yebyen> ;;bc,calc 800000
2742 2011-06-09 18:51:16 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 5 weeks, 0 days, 6 hours, 6 minutes, and 21 seconds
2743 2011-06-09 18:51:17 <anddam> and ~1,5 kW
2744 2011-06-09 18:51:18 tophattrick has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2745 2011-06-09 18:52:25 <yebyen> 1.5kW at 0.10c/kwh...
2746 2011-06-09 18:53:00 <yebyen> is like $75/mo added to your electric bill
2747 2011-06-09 18:53:17 <yebyen> unless i'm doing the math wrong
2748 2011-06-09 18:53:22 <ajf> by the way
2749 2011-06-09 18:53:27 <ajf> how does gribble calc that?
2750 2011-06-09 18:53:30 <ajf> probabilities?
2751 2011-06-09 18:53:40 <ajf> raw data?
2752 2011-06-09 18:53:50 <yebyen> i remember reading somewhere that the estimates will be wildly inaccurate whenever difficulty has just gone up
2753 2011-06-09 18:53:55 <yebyen> because of a small sample size
2754 2011-06-09 18:54:04 <yebyen> so, raw data I'm guessing
2755 2011-06-09 18:54:17 <yebyen> i think it's a linear relationship
2756 2011-06-09 18:54:23 <ajf> eh
2757 2011-06-09 18:54:30 <ajf> I would think probabilities
2758 2011-06-09 18:54:32 <yebyen> or inverse linear
2759 2011-06-09 18:54:42 <ajf> how many out of the possible SHA-256 hashes are valid?
2760 2011-06-09 18:54:53 <yebyen> probabilities would be pretty accurate, if it was easy to calculate
2761 2011-06-09 18:54:57 <ajf> say max hash is 99999999
2762 2011-06-09 18:55:03 <sipa> 1 in difficulty*2^48/65535 hashes is a good one
2763 2011-06-09 18:55:04 <ajf> and 4 zeros needed
2764 2011-06-09 18:55:15 <ajf> then 9999/99999999 chance
2765 2011-06-09 18:55:21 <sipa> ;;calc [bc,diff]*2^48/65535
2766 2011-06-09 18:55:22 <gribble> (567,358.22457067 * (2^48)) / 65,535 = 2.4368222 * 10^(15)
2767 2011-06-09 18:55:29 <sipa> ;;calc 1/([bc,diff]*2^48/65535)
2768 2011-06-09 18:55:29 <gribble> 1 / ((567,358.22457067 * (2^48)) / 65,535) = 4.10370522 * 10^(-16)
2769 2011-06-09 18:55:57 <anddam> ok, this is a messy bash script
2770 2011-06-09 18:58:32 <ajf> I can't get wxwidgets 2.9 headers on ubuntu apt
2771 2011-06-09 18:58:33 <ajf> :<
2772 2011-06-09 18:59:10 <cosurgi> ;;calc asin(1)
2773 2011-06-09 18:59:11 <gribble> asin(1) = 1.57079633
2774 2011-06-09 18:59:12 jaequery has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2775 2011-06-09 18:59:27 <ajf> ;;calc sin(720)
2776 2011-06-09 18:59:27 <cosurgi> anddam: that's google calc :)
2777 2011-06-09 18:59:29 <gribble> sin(720) = -0.544071696
2778 2011-06-09 18:59:39 <ajf> Y U NO USE DEGREES
2779 2011-06-09 19:00:04 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
2780 2011-06-09 19:00:23 <cosurgi> ;;calc sin(720 degrees)
2781 2011-06-09 19:00:23 <gribble> sin(720 degrees) = 0
2782 2011-06-09 19:00:27 <sipa> ajf: it doesn't exist, you need to compile and install it manually
2783 2011-06-09 19:00:28 X-Scale has joined
2784 2011-06-09 19:00:33 <sipa> that's the may reason for switching to 2.8
2785 2011-06-09 19:00:38 <sipa> 2.9 is dev release
2786 2011-06-09 19:00:41 <ajf> D:
2787 2011-06-09 19:00:59 <anddam> cosurgi: my backup script is in google calc?
2788 2011-06-09 19:01:18 da2ce7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2789 2011-06-09 19:01:23 <cosurgi> anddam: sorry :)
2790 2011-06-09 19:04:56 <anddam> even if I started 'bitcoin -server' I get "error: couldn't connect to server" when trying to use JSON API
2791 2011-06-09 19:05:21 <anddam> -server should start both daemon and GUI, shouldn't it?
2792 2011-06-09 19:05:23 <__gilles> hi
2793 2011-06-09 19:05:28 <sipa> anddam: yes
2794 2011-06-09 19:05:30 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2795 2011-06-09 19:05:38 pnicholson has quit (Quit: cya later!)
2796 2011-06-09 19:05:45 <anddam> sipa: I don't get GUI with cli
2797 2011-06-09 19:05:47 <anddam> I'm on OS X
2798 2011-06-09 19:06:09 <sipa> cli? you get an rpc server
2799 2011-06-09 19:06:42 <anddam> that's why I asked if -server gave both
2800 2011-06-09 19:06:44 devrandom has joined
2801 2011-06-09 19:06:51 <anddam> http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=63.0 suggests it
2802 2011-06-09 19:06:55 <sipa> it gives you gui + rpc
2803 2011-06-09 19:07:05 <anddam> and I get none
2804 2011-06-09 19:07:07 <ajf> uh
2805 2011-06-09 19:07:13 <anddam> the binary application bundle provided is fine tho'
2806 2011-06-09 19:07:13 <ajf> did you eddit bitcoin.conf
2807 2011-06-09 19:07:14 <ajf> ??
2808 2011-06-09 19:07:16 <anddam> I did
2809 2011-06-09 19:07:27 <anddam> I set rpcuser and rpcpassword
2810 2011-06-09 19:07:43 <sipa> anddam: how did you start the gui?
2811 2011-06-09 19:08:09 <anddam> sipa: application bundle works fine, the CLI won't start GUI even if it linked wxwidgets
2812 2011-06-09 19:08:15 <anddam> this is built with macports
2813 2011-06-09 19:08:43 germanMNY has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2814 2011-06-09 19:09:44 germanMNY has joined
2815 2011-06-09 19:11:13 <anddam> the script works good tho'
2816 2011-06-09 19:11:34 <anddam> are there bitcoin developers on OS X?
2817 2011-06-09 19:12:01 <sipa> gavin uses OSX, but doesn't do the OSX builds himself
2818 2011-06-09 19:12:30 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: i have half-fixed macports build instructions
2819 2011-06-09 19:12:46 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: the distributed os x build instructions are retardedly complex
2820 2011-06-09 19:12:49 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: when?
2821 2011-06-09 19:13:12 da2ce7 has joined
2822 2011-06-09 19:13:13 <jrmithdobbs> when i have time to finish sorting out wx issues
2823 2011-06-09 19:13:22 <anddam> I didn't follow instructions as there were already port
2824 2011-06-09 19:13:31 <jrmithdobbs> ya that port is old
2825 2011-06-09 19:13:38 <jrmithdobbs> i've not used it
2826 2011-06-09 19:13:42 <anddam> what kind of issues?
2827 2011-06-09 19:13:42 <anddam> not anymore
2828 2011-06-09 19:13:46 Phoebus has joined
2829 2011-06-09 19:13:49 <jrmithdobbs> oh did it get updated?
2830 2011-06-09 19:14:07 <anddam>   bitcoin @0.3.21_1 (active)
2831 2011-06-09 19:14:12 <jrmithdobbs> still old
2832 2011-06-09 19:14:17 <jrmithdobbs> heh
2833 2011-06-09 19:14:37 <anddam> newest stable AFAICS
2834 2011-06-09 19:14:43 <jrmithdobbs> 3.22 is stable
2835 2011-06-09 19:14:59 <anddam> since when?
2836 2011-06-09 19:15:05 <jrmithdobbs> like a week ago now
2837 2011-06-09 19:15:07 TommyBoy3G has joined
2838 2011-06-09 19:15:08 <anddam> I checked like 9 days ago
2839 2011-06-09 19:15:10 <anddam> ah :-)
2840 2011-06-09 19:15:12 <anddam> checking
2841 2011-06-09 19:16:13 TD has joined
2842 2011-06-09 19:16:53 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: my instructions require pulling in matt's 2.8 backport patch
2843 2011-06-09 19:17:04 <jrmithdobbs> because the wx 2.9 port has the damned debuging crap all turned on
2844 2011-06-09 19:17:19 <jrmithdobbs> so it pops up annoying as fuck dialog boxes over and over and over and over
2845 2011-06-09 19:17:31 Cherothald has quit ()
2846 2011-06-09 19:17:31 <anddam> so it's going to be built with wxW 2.8
2847 2011-06-09 19:18:24 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: huh?
2848 2011-06-09 19:18:24 <anddam> but that's up to the user, right?
2849 2011-06-09 19:18:31 germanMNY has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4)
2850 2011-06-09 19:18:46 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: the macports wx-2.9 port puts all the debug output into dialog boxes instead of stderr
2851 2011-06-09 19:18:58 germanMNY has joined
2852 2011-06-09 19:18:58 <anddam> any example?
2853 2011-06-09 19:19:05 <anddam> I've been playing with wxwidgets-devel this morning
2854 2011-06-09 19:19:29 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: and it throws 20 bajillion of them. none of them are bitcoin problems they're wx exceptions
2855 2011-06-09 19:19:42 <jrmithdobbs> related to wx internals code
2856 2011-06-09 19:19:47 <anddam> oh nice, running "bitcoind -server" I can have 'bitcoin getinfo' working
2857 2011-06-09 19:20:06 Lube has joined
2858 2011-06-09 19:20:25 <sipa> anddam: no need, bitcoind has -server by default
2859 2011-06-09 19:20:37 <ajf> it does?
2860 2011-06-09 19:20:39 <ajf> cool
2861 2011-06-09 19:20:54 <sipa> it's its only function
2862 2011-06-09 19:21:08 <ajf> eh
2863 2011-06-09 19:21:10 <anddam> I think I tried it and it didn't work, again without a single working case I couldn't say if it was due to bad flags or something worse
2864 2011-06-09 19:21:21 lyspooner has joined
2865 2011-06-09 19:21:27 <ajf> I do bitcoind -daemon then bitcoind getbalance
2866 2011-06-09 19:21:27 <anddam> sipa: bitcoin -server should work as well, right?
2867 2011-06-09 19:21:39 <sipa> anddam: yes
2868 2011-06-09 19:21:44 <anddam> btw I could just run "bitcoin stop" without providin user or password, is this normal?
2869 2011-06-09 19:22:01 <anddam> what's the point in setting rpcuser and related in bitcoin.conf
2870 2011-06-09 19:22:23 <sipa> anddam: the client uses the same bitcoin.conf file, and uses the rpcuser and password in it
2871 2011-06-09 19:22:59 <anddam> I see, that's why it recommend to have it 400
2872 2011-06-09 19:23:04 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2873 2011-06-09 19:23:05 <anddam> recommends*
2874 2011-06-09 19:24:06 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2875 2011-06-09 19:24:10 Lorenz has joined
2876 2011-06-09 19:24:51 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: here's the point, I was looking at SF's project page, not github's
2877 2011-06-09 19:24:54 RBecker has quit (Laptop!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|Disconnected by services)
2878 2011-06-09 19:25:00 <ajf> yay... compiling wxwidgets
2879 2011-06-09 19:26:04 <anddam> sipa: here it is
2880 2011-06-09 19:26:26 <ajf> I am impressed by the long scrolling lines of text that configure outputted
2881 2011-06-09 19:26:27 <ajf> :P
2882 2011-06-09 19:26:34 <anddam> bitcoind -server    <-  serves JSON request
2883 2011-06-09 19:26:40 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
2884 2011-06-09 19:26:43 <anddam> bitcoin -server    <-  error: couldn't connect to server
2885 2011-06-09 19:26:49 <anddam> I'm talking client-wise
2886 2011-06-09 19:26:54 <gribble> 129635
2887 2011-06-09 19:27:24 <sipa> anddam: that's very strange
2888 2011-06-09 19:27:24 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: also you have to jump through some hoops to get universal builds of the right libs built in ports since some very common things won't build with the +universal variant
2889 2011-06-09 19:27:30 <sipa> is that the full command line you're using?
2890 2011-06-09 19:28:14 <anddam> ~ $ bitcoin -server
2891 2011-06-09 19:28:14 <anddam> ../src/osx/core/bitmap.cpp(590): assert "err == noErr" failed in GetIconRef(): Error when constructing icon ref
2892 2011-06-09 19:28:17 <anddam> actual output
2893 2011-06-09 19:28:20 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: and if you just port install wx-2.8; it tries to build a bunch of deps and some of them fall in this category
2894 2011-06-09 19:28:31 RBecker has joined
2895 2011-06-09 19:28:34 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: i've fucked my entire ports install 3 or 4 times trying to get working instructions ;P
2896 2011-06-09 19:28:42 <phantomcircuit> anddam, ./bitcoind -server
2897 2011-06-09 19:28:51 <anddam> bin $ bitcoin getinfo
2898 2011-06-09 19:28:51 <anddam> error: couldn't connect to server
2899 2011-06-09 19:29:05 <sipa> well, is bitcoin running?
2900 2011-06-09 19:29:07 edgarallanpoe has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2901 2011-06-09 19:29:25 <anddam> phantomcircuit: that works, but it has been suggested that even "bitcoin -server" should serve JSON requests
2902 2011-06-09 19:29:36 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: you have to wait little bit it's unresponsive for a few seconds right after startup
2903 2011-06-09 19:29:46 ezl- has joined
2904 2011-06-09 19:29:56 <heistplay> my pushpoold is using 100%cpu is this normal? i'm with only 1700 requests per minute.
2905 2011-06-09 19:30:52 <heistplay> ]/window 12
2906 2011-06-09 19:30:53 <phantomcircuit> anddam, yes it should, but bitcoind wont have bitmap shit so it liekly wont have the failing code path
2907 2011-06-09 19:31:58 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: that's a useless wx-on-osx error that's not an error message btw
2908 2011-06-09 19:32:08 <jrmithdobbs> and can safely be ignored
2909 2011-06-09 19:32:35 germanMNY has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2911 2011-06-09 19:33:19 m00p has joined
2912 2011-06-09 19:33:27 <jrmithdobbs> bitcoin's json-rpc api really needs an enumerate-methods call
2913 2011-06-09 19:33:49 <jrmithdobbs> so that older clients can successfully make calls to newer rpc functions
2914 2011-06-09 19:33:57 germanMNY has joined
2915 2011-06-09 19:34:01 germanMNY has quit (Client Quit)
2916 2011-06-09 19:34:14 <jrmithdobbs> and also to get rid of that hack of special cases for non-string params
2917 2011-06-09 19:36:48 pnicholson has joined
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2922 2011-06-09 19:41:32 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: I figured it could be a little unresponsive but we're talking tenth of minutes
2923 2011-06-09 19:41:41 <anddam> bitcoind and GUI get responsive quite early
2924 2011-06-09 19:41:59 <anddam> bitcoin -server      should accept commands from stdin, right?
2925 2011-06-09 19:42:08 <anddam> I typed "stop" to quit it but had no luck
2926 2011-06-09 19:42:13 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: well, i just revisted building against macports wx/etc and remembered why i put it down
2927 2011-06-09 19:42:25 <sipa> anddam: not at all
2928 2011-06-09 19:42:25 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2929 2011-06-09 19:42:30 <sipa> nothing accepts commands from stdin
2930 2011-06-09 19:42:49 <sipa> bitcoin -server just means start the GUI, and enable the RPC module, like bitcoind does
2931 2011-06-09 19:42:51 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: shit's a pain in the ass, some of the dep libs build only as i386, some as only x86_64, some as universal
2932 2011-06-09 19:43:15 <jrmithdobbs> very annoying
2933 2011-06-09 19:43:58 <ajf> wxwidgets, openssl, libdb
2934 2011-06-09 19:44:03 <ajf> what will it not find next?
2935 2011-06-09 19:44:08 <ajf> tune in to IRC to find out!
2936 2011-06-09 19:45:36 * diki ate 500g of ice cream
2937 2011-06-09 19:47:17 <Wuked1> hey diki
2938 2011-06-09 19:47:26 <Wuked1> I found a way to get the block number
2939 2011-06-09 19:47:32 <Wuked1> there may be a better way at some point
2940 2011-06-09 19:47:37 <Wuked1> i haven't actually coded this yet
2941 2011-06-09 19:47:39 <Wuked1> but it will work
2942 2011-06-09 19:47:46 <jrmithdobbs> Wuked1: don't bother, he's been told 3 or 4 different ways to do it
2943 2011-06-09 19:47:55 <jrmithdobbs> Wuked1: he doesn't "get" it
2944 2011-06-09 19:48:04 <Wuked1> ah I was asking for ways earlier
2945 2011-06-09 19:48:12 <Wuked1> no one seemed to want to enlighten me :)
2946 2011-06-09 19:48:13 <ajf> "net.cpp:8:32: fatal error: miniupnpc/miniwget.h: No such file or directory
2947 2011-06-09 19:48:19 <ajf> D:
2948 2011-06-09 19:48:28 <jrmithdobbs> Wuked1: ya like i said earlier, listen to diki's advice on design/algorithms at your own peril
2949 2011-06-09 19:48:30 <sipa> ajf: put USE_UPNP= on the make command line
2950 2011-06-09 19:48:41 <Wuked1> hah I won't
2951 2011-06-09 19:48:49 Orborde has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2952 2011-06-09 19:48:52 <Wuked1> so I'm decoding the solution
2953 2011-06-09 19:48:56 <jrmithdobbs> Wuked1: you missed the conversation earlier where he was trying to figure out how to return a valid char* from a function that pointed to a c string
2954 2011-06-09 19:48:59 <ajf> sipa: nothing after =? Just checking if defined?
2955 2011-06-09 19:49:02 <Wuked1> and then getting the block hash from that
2956 2011-06-09 19:49:08 <jrmithdobbs> Wuked1: i wish i was joking.
2957 2011-06-09 19:49:10 <sipa> ajf: putting nothing after it undefines it
2958 2011-06-09 19:49:22 <Wuked1> then I can turn the block hash into the ID using an external resourse
2959 2011-06-09 19:49:31 <Wuked1> is there any way to turn the block hash into an ID internally ?
2960 2011-06-09 19:49:46 tauri has joined
2961 2011-06-09 19:49:56 <ajf> sipa: ahh
2962 2011-06-09 19:50:00 <jrmithdobbs> Wuked1: what do you mean by id?
2963 2011-06-09 19:50:06 <jrmithdobbs> Wuked1: you mean the block height number?
2964 2011-06-09 19:50:06 <Wuked1> the ID of the block
2965 2011-06-09 19:50:09 <Wuked1> yeah
2966 2011-06-09 19:50:12 <Wuked1> what number it is
2967 2011-06-09 19:50:22 <jrmithdobbs> you have to look for it in the blockchain by hash
2968 2011-06-09 19:50:29 <jrmithdobbs> and then figure out the position
2969 2011-06-09 19:50:38 <jrmithdobbs> honestly, the hash is just as good as having the block number though
2970 2011-06-09 19:50:41 <ajf> nobody agrees on block numbers though
2971 2011-06-09 19:50:46 <jrmithdobbs> right
2972 2011-06-09 19:50:46 <ajf> some count from 0, some from 1
2973 2011-06-09 19:50:53 vikarti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2974 2011-06-09 19:51:00 <jrmithdobbs> Wuked1: you really just want to store the hash
2975 2011-06-09 19:51:01 <ajf> like, mybitcoin.com counts from 1
2976 2011-06-09 19:51:10 <ajf> whilst blockexplorer counts from 0
2977 2011-06-09 19:51:17 <Wuked1> alright will do
2978 2011-06-09 19:51:20 <sipa> block number 0 is the genesis block
2979 2011-06-09 19:51:29 <ajf> yes.
2980 2011-06-09 19:51:40 <ajf> SATOSHI
2981 2011-06-09 19:51:49 <diki> it's time for a regenesis
2982 2011-06-09 19:51:57 <jrmithdobbs> Wuked1: the block height is only useful for figuring out when it's matured
2983 2011-06-09 19:51:59 <sipa> not sure where mybitcoin uses block heights?
2984 2011-06-09 19:52:08 <Wuked1> yeah that's all I wanted it for
2985 2011-06-09 19:52:25 <diki> which is the most tallest block so far?
2986 2011-06-09 19:52:28 <ajf> ui.cpp:1591:39: error: ‘class boost::filesystem3::path’ has no member named ‘native_file_string’
2987 2011-06-09 19:52:58 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: good times
2988 2011-06-09 19:53:19 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: wxWidgets is i386 only IIRC
2989 2011-06-09 19:53:19 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: you have the boost-dev packages installed right?
2990 2011-06-09 19:53:25 <ajf> uh
2991 2011-06-09 19:53:26 <ajf> I did
2992 2011-06-09 19:53:29 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: that's why I use wxWidgets-devel
2993 2011-06-09 19:53:35 <ajf> then they were REMOVED rudely by opencl or something
2994 2011-06-09 19:53:43 <jrmithdobbs> lol
2995 2011-06-09 19:53:52 <ajf> er
2996 2011-06-09 19:53:57 <ajf> what is current boost version?
2997 2011-06-09 19:54:08 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: if you can tell me how to build against -devel without it spitting out the assertian warnings as dialog boxes ....
2998 2011-06-09 19:54:16 <anddam> sipa: so once I start "bitcoin -server" and GUI doesn't start I can only kill the process
2999 2011-06-09 19:54:21 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: let me reproduce
3000 2011-06-09 19:54:29 <anddam> building 0.3.22 now
3001 2011-06-09 19:54:41 <sipa> anddam: you can use bitcoin stop
3002 2011-06-09 19:54:46 <sipa> if the RPC interface is up
3003 2011-06-09 19:55:02 <anddam> sipa: it isn't, that's my problem
3004 2011-06-09 19:55:08 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: the -devel package is broken in a few other ways. they don't have the right paths to the .dylibs asigned in the .dylibs themselves so after linking you have to:
3005 2011-06-09 19:55:12 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: install_name_tool -change /opt/local/var/macports/build/_opt_local_var_macports_sources_rsync.macports.org_release_ports_graphics_wxWidgets-devel/work/wxWidgets-2.9.1/build/lib/libwx_osx_cocoau-2.9.1.0.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/wx-devel/libwx_osx_cocoau-2.9.1.0.0.dylib bitcoin
3006 2011-06-09 19:55:17 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: and some other crazy shit
3007 2011-06-09 19:56:08 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: otherwise if you port clean, BAM wx stops linking on bitcoin launch and you get fun weird messages
3008 2011-06-09 19:56:24 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: annoying as fuck.
3009 2011-06-09 19:56:36 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: it's been ficex
3010 2011-06-09 19:56:42 <anddam> fixed
3011 2011-06-09 19:56:54 <diki> it's been FIsex
3012 2011-06-09 19:57:03 <anddam> at least there's a patch about it
3013 2011-06-09 19:57:04 <ajf> er
3014 2011-06-09 19:58:16 <ajf> I hate building from source so much
3015 2011-06-09 19:58:20 <ajf> so many dependencies
3016 2011-06-09 19:58:32 <ajf> why do you even need lib boost? :<
3017 2011-06-09 19:58:42 <diki> so they can boost the performance
3018 2011-06-09 19:58:43 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: because it's used throughout
3019 2011-06-09 19:58:47 <anddam> ajf: use a port system
3020 2011-06-09 19:58:58 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: boost provides a lot of things like foreach and siht
3021 2011-06-09 19:59:02 <ajf> ahh
3022 2011-06-09 19:59:11 <ajf> anddam: what?
3023 2011-06-09 19:59:23 <anddam> <ajf> so many dependencies
3024 2011-06-09 19:59:53 <anddam> I got it as "it's annoying to install all these dependencies by hand"
3025 2011-06-09 20:00:50 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: what's miniupnppc ?
3026 2011-06-09 20:00:59 <anddam> miniupnpc*
3027 2011-06-09 20:01:04 RBecker has quit (Laptop!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker|Remote host closed the connection)
3028 2011-06-09 20:01:09 <gmaxwell> A library for upnp. It's an optional dependency.
3029 2011-06-09 20:01:13 <anddam> 	Lightweight client for UPnP protocol
3030 2011-06-09 20:01:41 datagutt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3031 2011-06-09 20:02:30 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: port install miniupnpc
3032 2011-06-09 20:02:34 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: there's a port for it
3033 2011-06-09 20:02:43 TheKid_ has joined
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3035 2011-06-09 20:02:53 <anddam> that's where I took the description from
3036 2011-06-09 20:02:58 <jrmithdobbs> and I actually got the maintainer to get a working version put into ports (he had a dev snapshot)
3037 2011-06-09 20:03:02 <anddam> building
3038 2011-06-09 20:03:05 <jrmithdobbs> bitcoin will build against it
3039 2011-06-09 20:03:58 achim_ has joined
3040 2011-06-09 20:04:03 darbsllim has joined
3041 2011-06-09 20:04:04 dentldir has left ()
3042 2011-06-09 20:05:06 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: are you sure they fixed the wx-devel package? i'll try building against it because i have a working build env for it
3043 2011-06-09 20:05:06 <achim_> Hi  I'm using bitcon ver. 0.3.20-2beat with Linux/Gentoo  . Am I right that effecjtively my BTCs are only stored in the file $HOME/.bitcoin/wallet?
3044 2011-06-09 20:05:18 <anddam> no
3045 2011-06-09 20:05:21 <anddam> it's not on repo
3046 2011-06-09 20:05:26 <anddam> there's a working patch in a ticket
3047 2011-06-09 20:05:31 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: link?
3048 2011-06-09 20:05:35 <anddam> ~26k
3049 2011-06-09 20:05:41 <anddam> searching
3050 2011-06-09 20:05:48 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: also does the patch fix the fact that -devel's wx-config barfs on --static?
3051 2011-06-09 20:05:49 <achim_> are you taling to me? @anddam
3052 2011-06-09 20:05:58 <ajf> /usr/include/boost/filesystem/v3/operations.hpp:408: undefined reference to `boost::filesystem3::detail::remove(boost::filesystem3::path const&, boost::system::error_code*)'
3053 2011-06-09 20:06:03 <ajf> what
3054 2011-06-09 20:06:06 <anddam> "taling"?
3055 2011-06-09 20:06:18 <achim_> ::) talking, sorry typo
3056 2011-06-09 20:06:20 <jrmithdobbs> ajf: what libboost-dev version?
3057 2011-06-09 20:06:25 <ajf> 1.42...
3058 2011-06-09 20:06:28 gps__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3059 2011-06-09 20:06:28 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: nope
3060 2011-06-09 20:06:36 <anddam> achim_: no I wasn't
3061 2011-06-09 20:06:40 <achim_> thx
3062 2011-06-09 20:06:43 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: i hate wx so much.
3063 2011-06-09 20:06:47 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: 26410
3064 2011-06-09 20:06:49 <anddam> everybody does
3065 2011-06-09 20:07:00 <eianpsego> what is the alternative people prefer?
3066 2011-06-09 20:07:00 <ajf> why not qt or something?
3067 2011-06-09 20:07:23 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: what is 26410? i don't deal with macports "community" if i can avoid it
3068 2011-06-09 20:07:23 <sipa> achim_: wallet.dat, yes
3069 2011-06-09 20:07:51 <achim_> oh ,sorry, you are right. I forget the postfix of the filename :) THX VERY MUCH @sipa
3070 2011-06-09 20:07:51 <anddam> it's the trac system ticket number
3071 2011-06-09 20:07:53 <eianpsego> do people agree that qt is better?
3072 2011-06-09 20:08:06 <jrmithdobbs> eianpsego: pretty much everyone
3073 2011-06-09 20:08:13 <gavinandresen> qt is definitely better.  more developers, better supported...
3074 2011-06-09 20:08:25 <jrmithdobbs> more bindings for more languages that actually work
3075 2011-06-09 20:08:27 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: why do you need --static anyway?
3076 2011-06-09 20:08:34 <ajf> jrmithdobbs: anything wrong with libboost 1.42?
3077 2011-06-09 20:08:43 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: bitcoin pulls in a lot of stuff as static
3078 2011-06-09 20:08:52 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: in the default makefiles
3079 2011-06-09 20:08:55 <anddam> IIRC you can't link statically on darwin
3080 2011-06-09 20:08:56 <achim_> and the next question ( to everbody)? Is there a unix/linux tool to transfers BTCs from one wallet.dat to another ?
3081 2011-06-09 20:09:01 <anddam> but I may be wrong
3082 2011-06-09 20:09:03 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: you most definitely can
3083 2011-06-09 20:09:05 <sipa> achim_: yes, bitcoind :)
3084 2011-06-09 20:09:10 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: then I'm wrong
3085 2011-06-09 20:09:11 <achim_> (locally on the same host without network)
3086 2011-06-09 20:09:18 <sipa> achim_: that's impossible
3087 2011-06-09 20:09:23 <achim_> ??
3088 2011-06-09 20:09:25 <sipa> achim_: you can move keys from one file to another
3089 2011-06-09 20:09:39 <sipa> achim_: not currently implemented, but possible
3090 2011-06-09 20:09:46 <achim_> yes ....
3091 2011-06-09 20:09:47 <anddam> jrmithdobbs:  http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#qa/qa2001/qa1118.html
3092 2011-06-09 20:10:08 <gavinandresen> backup about three times first if you start messing with your wallet keys
3093 2011-06-09 20:10:10 <sipa> but to send bitcoins themselves from one address to another, it needs to be broadcast to the peer to peer network
3094 2011-06-09 20:10:27 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: that only applies when trying to statically link the *system libs*
3095 2011-06-09 20:10:38 lyspooner_ has joined
3096 2011-06-09 20:10:40 <gavinandresen> ... and you'll need -rescan, too, probably....
3097 2011-06-09 20:10:45 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: you can statically link, say, openssl
3098 2011-06-09 20:10:54 <achim_> I can't beleive (but perhaps you are right :) ), that it should be (logical) impossible to extract BTCs from one file and put it into another on the same host without using network :)
3099 2011-06-09 20:10:57 <sipa> gavinandresen: seen http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=8070 ?
3100 2011-06-09 20:11:08 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: if openssl is built by macports
3101 2011-06-09 20:11:44 <achim_> then I guees, you will say that it is also impossible to join the BTCs of 2 wallet.dats into a new one?
3102 2011-06-09 20:11:52 <anddam> it's trying to link /opt/local/miniupnpc/libminiupnpc.dylib rather than correct path of /opt/local/lib
3103 2011-06-09 20:11:55 <achim_> (agisn locally without network)
3104 2011-06-09 20:11:57 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: but yes, you cannot have a fully statically linked binary osx, you can however statically individual 3rd party libs
3105 2011-06-09 20:12:07 lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3106 2011-06-09 20:12:17 lyspooner_ is now known as lyspooner
3107 2011-06-09 20:12:22 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: I just remembered something about that, never bothered tho'
3108 2011-06-09 20:12:22 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: heh shoot the maintainer an email
3109 2011-06-09 20:12:23 <gavinandresen> sipa:  I'll believe it when there's either a press release from the senator's office or they introduce the legislation.... otherwise sounds like a rumor
3110 2011-06-09 20:12:34 <sipa> gavinandresen: good point
3111 2011-06-09 20:12:34 <anddam> maintainer of?
3112 2011-06-09 20:12:38 <anddam> miniupnpc ?
3113 2011-06-09 20:12:40 <jrmithdobbs> the miniupnpc port
3114 2011-06-09 20:12:53 <anddam> no, the port is fine
3115 2011-06-09 20:13:07 <anddam> I 'm checking if the makefile or the Portfile aren't
3116 2011-06-09 20:13:29 <jrmithdobbs> ya if it's the Portfile (probably is) it's on the port maintainer
3117 2011-06-09 20:13:33 <sipa> achim_: a wallet contains private keys, each corresponds to a bitcoin address, and gives the ability to spend the coins addressed to that address
3118 2011-06-09 20:13:42 <gavinandresen> achim_ : sure it's possible to merge wallets.  If you know python, my bitcointools could be pretty easily taught to do it
3119 2011-06-09 20:13:46 <achim_> okay @sipa
3120 2011-06-09 20:14:10 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: also, if you shoot him an email he'll probably try to get you to take it over. he only added the port so he could build bitcoin, lol
3121 2011-06-09 20:14:11 <sipa> achim_: there is no automated way to do it yet, though
3122 2011-06-09 20:14:15 pusle has joined
3123 2011-06-09 20:14:40 <anddam>  makefile.osx:53 seems wrong to me
3124 2011-06-09 20:14:41 <achim_> this is a totally otehr quesiton -- this means noone has still wirten such software, but maybe could be done :-) @sipa
3125 2011-06-09 20:14:43 darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3126 2011-06-09 20:15:26 stuhood has joined
3127 2011-06-09 20:16:12 <CIA-31> bitcoin: Dean Lee master * r3a8182c / locale/zh_cn/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po : Updated Chinese Simp translation - http://bit.ly/jw120Q
3128 2011-06-09 20:16:12 <CIA-31> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r2661f2f / locale/zh_cn/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po :
3129 2011-06-09 20:16:12 <CIA-31> bitcoin: Merge pull request #310 from xslidian/master
3130 2011-06-09 20:16:12 <CIA-31> bitcoin: Updated Chinese Simp translation - http://bit.ly/kCzJ1N
3131 2011-06-09 20:16:18 <achim_> when safeing wallet.dat files you will make copies in other directories e.g. -- which means you may end up with a directory full of wallets :) then having such a tool would be helpful :)
3132 2011-06-09 20:16:50 lyspooner has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3133 2011-06-09 20:16:54 <diki> i avoid compiling the gui
3134 2011-06-09 20:17:10 <diki> so i compile the headless ride....i mean headless bitcoin
3135 2011-06-09 20:17:38 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: would your bitcointools stuff make it easy to take a whole bunch of priv keys and shove it into a wallet?
3136 2011-06-09 20:17:52 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: assuming i have no data about said priv keys except for label and secret
3137 2011-06-09 20:18:25 <diki> what are you going to do with the knowledge after gavin tells you what you want to know?
3138 2011-06-09 20:18:28 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3139 2011-06-09 20:18:29 drbrontosaurus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3140 2011-06-09 20:18:34 <diki> if it's just for know-how, why bother?
3141 2011-06-09 20:18:36 <achim_> Sorry, I know only shell, C, Fortran, PS, and some more exotic PL, but neitehr Python, nor Perl, nor Ruby e.t.c :) @jrmithdobbs
3142 2011-06-09 20:18:42 <jrmithdobbs> diki: what?
3143 2011-06-09 20:18:48 Titeuf_87_ has joined
3144 2011-06-09 20:18:58 <achim_> I laerday have forget 60 % of C++ and I guess 80 % of Jave :-/
3145 2011-06-09 20:18:59 <jrmithdobbs> achim_: good for you i guess?
3146 2011-06-09 20:19:09 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: I think you'd need to figure out the correspoding public keys and add them, too (not sure what bitcoin does with just-private-key-no-public-key keys)
3147 2011-06-09 20:19:11 <achim_> I can't judge :)
3148 2011-06-09 20:19:16 <diki> not like i understand the whole private,public or even pubic keys, but what are you going to do when you know?
3149 2011-06-09 20:19:25 drbrontosaurus has joined
3150 2011-06-09 20:19:47 <achim_> I learn pPL when I need them and forhget them over the years if I don't use them :) @jrmithdobbs
3151 2011-06-09 20:19:51 <jrmithdobbs> diki: construct a wallet obviously?
3152 2011-06-09 20:19:57 gsathya has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3153 2011-06-09 20:20:07 <diki> download bitcoin client -> launch = new wallet
3154 2011-06-09 20:20:14 <diki> unless there is an existing .bitcoin dir
3155 2011-06-09 20:20:31 <jrmithdobbs> diki: yes, a wallet that doesn't have the priv keys i want in it?!
3156 2011-06-09 20:20:39 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: building again
3157 2011-06-09 20:20:42 stuhood has left ()
3158 2011-06-09 20:20:51 <diki> you screwed up your wallet?
3159 2011-06-09 20:21:05 <jrmithdobbs> no?
3160 2011-06-09 20:21:06 normanrichards has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3161 2011-06-09 20:21:06 <TD> jrmithdobbs: i thought there is a patch that lets you import private keys
3162 2011-06-09 20:21:07 <achim_> okay, thx everybody for your time & effort spended to me. Bye
3163 2011-06-09 20:21:10 agricocb has joined
3164 2011-06-09 20:21:11 <diki> then why?
3165 2011-06-09 20:21:13 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3166 2011-06-09 20:21:15 achim_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3167 2011-06-09 20:21:17 normanrichards has joined
3168 2011-06-09 20:21:19 <diki> why reinvent the wheel?
3169 2011-06-09 20:21:21 <jrmithdobbs> TD: ya i've been talking to sipa about it, i'm having weird problems with it
3170 2011-06-09 20:21:37 <jrmithdobbs> json parsing problems
3171 2011-06-09 20:21:42 agricocb has joined
3172 2011-06-09 20:21:56 <jrmithdobbs> it's kicking back parse errors on things that should parse fine (and do parse fine for sipa)
3173 2011-06-09 20:22:15 Titeuf_87 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3174 2011-06-09 20:22:17 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: you can use importprivkey with just the secret directly
3175 2011-06-09 20:22:24 <sipa> if you want to experiment with that
3176 2011-06-09 20:22:34  has joined
3177 2011-06-09 20:22:35 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: ya that works fine and is probably what i'll end up doing
3178 2011-06-09 20:22:44 darbsllim has joined
3179 2011-06-09 20:22:51 netsky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3180 2011-06-09 20:22:54 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: I really need to figure out why it's not parsing for me though, that shit is weird ;P
3181 2011-06-09 20:22:54 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3182 2011-06-09 20:23:01 <sipa> yes, i don't get it
3183 2011-06-09 20:23:11 <sipa> really seems like a bug in the json parsin code
3184 2011-06-09 20:23:17 <jrmithdobbs> almost has to be
3185 2011-06-09 20:23:20 <sipa> but as you're using exactly the same as i am...
3186 2011-06-09 20:23:24 <jrmithdobbs> right
3187 2011-06-09 20:23:53 <jrmithdobbs> doesn't make any damned sense, haha
3188 2011-06-09 20:24:03 <diki> still, why are you making a wallet that bitcoin does for you automatically?
3189 2011-06-09 20:24:20 <jrmithdobbs> because i want to
3190 2011-06-09 20:24:24 <jrmithdobbs> why does it matter?
3191 2011-06-09 20:24:36 <diki> because it's useless?
3192 2011-06-09 20:24:41 <diki> no point...etc
3193 2011-06-09 20:24:49 <ajf> "/usr/include/boost/system/error_code.hpp:476: undefined reference to `boost::system::get_generic_category()'
3194 2011-06-09 20:24:52 <ajf> D:
3195 2011-06-09 20:24:53 <jrmithdobbs> it's not and there's plenty of reasons to do it
3196 2011-06-09 20:24:57 <ajf> I have boost installed and all
3197 2011-06-09 20:25:03 <diki> state one reason
3198 2011-06-09 20:25:12 mpr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3199 2011-06-09 20:25:12 <jrmithdobbs> restoring backups
3200 2011-06-09 20:25:16 mpr has joined
3201 2011-06-09 20:25:18 vokoda` has joined
3202 2011-06-09 20:25:19 gsathya has joined
3203 2011-06-09 20:25:29 <diki> i could do that
3204 2011-06-09 20:25:31 <jrmithdobbs> writing wallet test cases
3205 2011-06-09 20:25:31 <jrmithdobbs> etc
3206 2011-06-09 20:25:34 dr_ has joined
3207 2011-06-09 20:25:48 <jrmithdobbs> merging wallets
3208 2011-06-09 20:25:51 <jrmithdobbs> you want me to go on?
3209 2011-06-09 20:26:02 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: built, what issues did you meet?
3210 2011-06-09 20:26:17 <ajf> oh damnit why didn't I read doc/build-unix.txt before
3211 2011-06-09 20:26:21 <ajf> I just wasted an hour :<
3212 2011-06-09 20:26:24 twobitcoins_ has joined
3213 2011-06-09 20:26:30 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: on launch it displays lots and lots exception dialog boxes
3214 2011-06-09 20:26:39 <diki> i waisted a couple of hours when i installed pushpool
3215 2011-06-09 20:26:45 <diki> i installed a fresh os like 3-4 times
3216 2011-06-09 20:26:53 <jrmithdobbs> diki: don't lie, you wasted a week
3217 2011-06-09 20:26:54 <diki> installing the dependencies one by one from the official websites
3218 2011-06-09 20:26:55 Hach has joined
3219 2011-06-09 20:26:58 Hachima has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3220 2011-06-09 20:26:58 <anddam> locale/ and README are gone
3221 2011-06-09 20:26:59 _W_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3222 2011-06-09 20:27:17 twobitcoins has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3223 2011-06-09 20:27:28 X-Scale has left ()
3224 2011-06-09 20:27:43 <diki> jrmith:i wasted a week for many reasons
3225 2011-06-09 20:27:45 <Wuked1> pushpool is really easy to install
3226 2011-06-09 20:27:48 <Wuked1> on ubuntu ...
3227 2011-06-09 20:27:49 <Wuked1> :D
3228 2011-06-09 20:27:50 vokoda has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3229 2011-06-09 20:27:59 _W_ has joined
3230 2011-06-09 20:28:04 <diki> one was that i thought vmware station was better than virtualbox so i had to switch to it
3231 2011-06-09 20:28:46 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: oh i remember why i wasn't using dump/import privkey ... I don't know the addresses, haha
3232 2011-06-09 20:28:47 Slix` has joined
3233 2011-06-09 20:28:48 twobitcoins_ is now known as twobitcoins
3234 2011-06-09 20:28:49 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: ;P
3235 2011-06-09 20:28:55 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: should be fine for import though
3236 2011-06-09 20:29:03 ajf is now known as ajf|GIVEMEMOARBI
3237 2011-06-09 20:29:07 <ajf> GIVEMEMOARBI!~ajf@78.129.159.151|oh fff
3238 2011-06-09 20:29:40 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: what all does importprivkey expect? seeing as dumpprivkey doesn't actually dump json to me
3239 2011-06-09 20:29:49 ajf is now known as GIVEMEMOARBI!~ajf@78.129.159.151|ajf|Bitcoin
3240 2011-06-09 20:30:05 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: importprivkey expects exactly what dumpprivkey outputs
3241 2011-06-09 20:30:11 <jrmithdobbs> gotcha
3242 2011-06-09 20:30:37 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: so it can't assign them to an account then
3243 2011-06-09 20:30:48 <sipa> indeed
3244 2011-06-09 20:31:30 <sipa> though that's not too hard to add, actually
3245 2011-06-09 20:31:37  is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-252-1-171.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
3246 2011-06-09 20:31:39 <jrmithdobbs> no biggie for what I'm testing
3247 2011-06-09 20:31:41 <gmaxwell> Anyone know why gribble disagrees with bitcoind and blockexplorer about difficulty ?
3248 2011-06-09 20:31:45 <jrmithdobbs> just wanted to be clear
3249 2011-06-09 20:32:03 <sipa> gmaxwell: 0.3.22 introduced a rounding error fix in the calculation
3250 2011-06-09 20:32:21 <gmaxwell> ah!
3251 2011-06-09 20:32:42 <diki> but i heard it doesnt work with poclbm
3252 2011-06-09 20:32:58 <esionvo> What happens if I receive a payment like 1.234 BTC and my client recognizes only up to 2 decimal points? Will I be able to just use 1.23 BTC from that address until I upgrade to software that will then see the remaining 0.004 on it?  I have no way to test that
3253 2011-06-09 20:33:37 <sipa> esionvo: since 0.3.21, the client works perfectly up to 8 decimals precision and will never round
3254 2011-06-09 20:33:58 <picci>  hey ppl
3255 2011-06-09 20:34:05 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: final build, then I'll test the wx thing
3256 2011-06-09 20:34:07 <picci> where is the bot to calculate hash/s -> bitcoin gen ?
3257 2011-06-09 20:34:18 <sipa> ;;bc,gen 1597000
3258 2011-06-09 20:34:19 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1597000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 2.83120584884 BTC per day and 0.117966910368 BTC per hour.
3259 2011-06-09 20:34:27 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: if you can figure out how to get rid of those messages with the port build of 2.9 please let me know
3260 2011-06-09 20:34:48 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: working around the dylib retardness is easy enough (easier to just patch the makefile than fix the port)
3261 2011-06-09 20:35:46 <TD> forum is very slow today
3262 2011-06-09 20:36:20 <sipa> indeed
3263 2011-06-09 20:36:27 <jgarzik> heh, still a flurry of posts...  moving at the speed of sound rather than speed of light, though :)
3264 2011-06-09 20:37:50 <TD> the general discussion forum is turning into such a ghetto
3265 2011-06-09 20:38:12 <sipa> 21:30:50 < wikileaks> [21:29:35] Namecoin and Bitcoin will be revolutionary http://is.gd/8zKOTT see "Orwell's Dictum" http://is.gd/2hsOWh
3266 2011-06-09 20:38:24 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|"/usr/include/boost/filesystem/v3/operations.hpp:408: undefined reference to `boost::filesystem3::detail::remove(boost::filesystem3::path const&, boost::system::error_code*)'
3267 2011-06-09 20:38:27 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|"
3268 2011-06-09 20:38:28 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
3269 2011-06-09 20:38:38 johnnympereira5 has joined
3270 2011-06-09 20:38:43 <sipa> ajf|Bitcoin: what version of boost?
3271 2011-06-09 20:38:56 <diki> you need 1.42 i think
3272 2011-06-09 20:38:59 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|1.42
3273 2011-06-09 20:39:04 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|:/
3274 2011-06-09 20:39:37 lumos has joined
3275 2011-06-09 20:39:45 Phoebus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3276 2011-06-09 20:39:55 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|hmm
3277 2011-06-09 20:40:04 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
3278 2011-06-09 20:40:14 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|I just uninstalled ubuntu desktop
3279 2011-06-09 20:40:14 <lizthegrey> I'm surprised there have been no comments positive or negative on my proposed community code of conduct.
3280 2011-06-09 20:40:16 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|fuck fuck fuck
3281 2011-06-09 20:40:18 <diki> what is the os?
3282 2011-06-09 20:40:31 <lumos> lizthegrey, can i see
3283 2011-06-09 20:40:46 <lumos> ajf|Bitcoin, why?
3284 2011-06-09 20:40:54 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|lumos: uh
3285 2011-06-09 20:41:00 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|removed all boost libraries
3286 2011-06-09 20:41:03 <lizthegrey> lumos: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=13512.0
3287 2011-06-09 20:41:09 <ajf> Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|compiz is buuntu-desktop dependency
3288 2011-06-09 20:41:11 <lizthegrey> modeled after the Ubuntu code of conduct
3289 2011-06-09 20:41:16 <jgarzik> TD: it really is
3290 2011-06-09 20:41:26 <jgarzik> TD: I've been thinking about a -dev and -users mailing list
3291 2011-06-09 20:41:38 <jgarzik> TD: and maybe a -sauce list, publicly archived, private membership
3292 2011-06-09 20:41:49 <sipa> why sauce?
3293 2011-06-09 20:41:49 <lumos> i herd u founded bitcoin
3294 2011-06-09 20:41:56 <jgarzik> sipa: better than "cabal"
3295 2011-06-09 20:42:02 ajf is now known as Bitcoin!~ajf@78.129.159.151|SATOSHI_NAKAMOTO
3296 2011-06-09 20:42:03 <TD> could resurrect bitcoin-list@sf.net though i'm not sure their mailing list software is so great
3297 2011-06-09 20:42:11 <SATOSHI_NAKAMOTO> IT WAS ME ALL ALONG
3298 2011-06-09 20:42:15 <lumos> no jgarzik
3299 2011-06-09 20:42:17 <SATOSHI_NAKAMOTO> MWAHAHAHA
3300 2011-06-09 20:42:18 <lumos> coz cbs news
3301 2011-06-09 20:42:19 <sipa> SATOSHI_NAKAMOTO: please
3302 2011-06-09 20:42:20 <lumos> claimed
3303 2011-06-09 20:42:31 lumos is now known as satoshi_nakamot0
3304 2011-06-09 20:42:34 <satoshi_nakamot0> no im satoshi
3305 2011-06-09 20:42:41 <SATOSHI_NAKAMOTO> liyar!
3306 2011-06-09 20:42:46 <SATOSHI_NAKAMOTO> yuu is notto satoshi!!!
3307 2011-06-09 20:42:49 <sipa> can you please take that nickchange game somewhere else?
3308 2011-06-09 20:42:53 <lizthegrey> can we take this out of #bitcoin-dev?
3309 2011-06-09 20:42:54 <satoshi_nakamot0> i am the original founder of bitcoin, please send donation
3310 2011-06-09 20:43:08 huhuha has joined
3311 2011-06-09 20:43:14 <lizthegrey> TD: what about a newsgroup?
3312 2011-06-09 20:43:18 NOT_SATOSHI has joined
3313 2011-06-09 20:43:23 <NOT_SATOSHI> k
3314 2011-06-09 20:43:35 <diki> sipa, does a possibility exist that bitcoin sends getwork that i may have solved a few days prior or even a few hours before?
3315 2011-06-09 20:43:36 <lizthegrey> people who want to use google groups could use that interface, other people could use news readers?
3316 2011-06-09 20:43:49 <jgarzik> the forum is really becoming a PR nightmare too
3317 2011-06-09 20:43:56 * TD doesn't know much about usenet these days
3318 2011-06-09 20:43:57 <jgarzik> reporters pick the craziness posts
3319 2011-06-09 20:44:04 <jgarzik> craziest*
3320 2011-06-09 20:44:12 <TD> i suspect spam filters would suffer. mailing lists are the standard, really.
3321 2011-06-09 20:44:24 <TD> google groups works ok. if there's a problem with it, i can go in and fix the code :-)
3322 2011-06-09 20:44:26 <jrmithdobbs> lizthegrey: tl;dr
3323 2011-06-09 20:44:28 <sipa> the forum is becoming less useful every day, it seems
3324 2011-06-09 20:44:29 * TD already made a few Groups changes
3325 2011-06-09 20:44:33 <lizthegrey> Td: I suspect that people don't trust google groups :/
3326 2011-06-09 20:44:34 <jgarzik> sipa: agreed
3327 2011-06-09 20:44:37 <TD> jrmithdobbs: the tl;dr summary is "assholes get kickbanned"
3328 2011-06-09 20:44:47 <jrmithdobbs> as an asshole
3329 2011-06-09 20:44:49 <jrmithdobbs> i object
3330 2011-06-09 20:44:53 lumos has joined
3331 2011-06-09 20:44:54 <TD> objection noted ;)
3332 2011-06-09 20:44:57 <lizthegrey> jrmithdobbs: there's been a lot of sexist crap that nobody has moderated or called out
3333 2011-06-09 20:45:00 <lumos> yo please don't censor
3334 2011-06-09 20:45:05 <lumos> lizthegrey, what?
3335 2011-06-09 20:45:14 <lumos> lizthegrey, sexist how?
3336 2011-06-09 20:45:15 <jgarzik> lizthegrey: +homophobic, ...
3337 2011-06-09 20:45:18 <TD> sipa: yeah, more aggressive moderation/moving threads around would be useful
3338 2011-06-09 20:45:19 <lizthegrey> someone admitted to being 15 and female and was stalked on the forums
3339 2011-06-09 20:45:20 <diki> homo?
3340 2011-06-09 20:45:26 <diki> lumos, you gay?
3341 2011-06-09 20:45:26 <NOT_SATOSHI> "/usr/include/boost/filesystem/v3/operations.hpp:408: undefined reference to `boost::filesystem3::detail::remove(boost::filesystem3::path const&, boost::system::error_code*)'
3342 2011-06-09 20:45:27 <lizthegrey> people insinuated she could earn bitcoins by spending time with them
3343 2011-06-09 20:45:30 <NOT_SATOSHI> "
3344 2011-06-09 20:45:34 <NOT_SATOSHI> gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
3345 2011-06-09 20:45:38 <lumos> lizthegrey, who was that?
3346 2011-06-09 20:45:47 <lizthegrey> lumos: I can pull the thread if you want
3347 2011-06-09 20:45:48 <jgarzik> NOT_SATOSHI: please stop
3348 2011-06-09 20:45:51 <lumos> lizthegrey, yes
3349 2011-06-09 20:45:56 <lizthegrey> there's also been sexist jokes
3350 2011-06-09 20:45:57 <jgarzik> let's keep this to dev topics
3351 2011-06-09 20:46:01 <jgarzik> poke
3352 2011-06-09 20:46:04 <lumos> i dont care about sexist jokes
3353 2011-06-09 20:46:15 <lumos> whats wrong why u wunt 2 censor lizthegrey
3354 2011-06-09 20:46:21 <sipa> how hard is it to set up some mailinglists at sourceforge?
3355 2011-06-09 20:46:31 <lumos> lizthegrey, don't destroy information
3356 2011-06-09 20:46:31 <TD> there already is one :)
3357 2011-06-09 20:46:40 <lizthegrey> jgarzik: do you prefer that I take this meta community standards discussion elsewhere? I feel it's most relevant to discuss in the -dev channel because I'm primarily concerned about feeling welcome in the dev community
3358 2011-06-09 20:46:42 <jgarzik> sipa: easy
3359 2011-06-09 20:46:47 <jrmithdobbs> so any predictions on how badly this is going to end for me? importing ~7k addresses into a wallet.dat the launching with -rescan
3360 2011-06-09 20:46:48 <TD> lumos: flaming isn't information
3361 2011-06-09 20:46:59 Asphodelia has joined
3362 2011-06-09 20:47:02 <TD> jrmithdobbs: it should be ok
3363 2011-06-09 20:47:14 <lizthegrey> and there have been problems in the -dev channel as well
3364 2011-06-09 20:47:15 <lumos> lumos, yes but its best to have all information rather than none
3365 2011-06-09 20:47:17 <jgarzik> lizthegrey: it's off topic for #bitcoin-dev, though it's unfortunately that other channels have higher noise-to-signal ratio
3366 2011-06-09 20:47:20 <jrmithdobbs> TD: ya, we'll see
3367 2011-06-09 20:47:20 <lumos> TD, that was to u
3368 2011-06-09 20:47:38 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: if you use any of my patches to do the importing, it will already do the rescan
3369 2011-06-09 20:47:46 <lumos> TD, you could ban someone and they could have some lifechanging bit of information
3370 2011-06-09 20:47:54 <Asphodelia> Feature request: download the blockchain in reverse order, and don't wait for the whole thing to download before allowing me to transact. Let me decide how many "reverse confirmations" I want to wait for.
3371 2011-06-09 20:47:56 <TD> ok, simple thing - if I am a mod in this channel I'll try and keep it clean when I'm around
3372 2011-06-09 20:47:59 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: if you're going to import 7000, i suggest you to somehow try to prevent it from rescanning after each and every one
3373 2011-06-09 20:48:02 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: nah it's importing on a client with no p2p connectivity and no blockchain downloaded
3374 2011-06-09 20:48:13 <lumos> lizthegrey, said you would send me the thread
3375 2011-06-09 20:48:19 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: way ahead of you there ;P
3376 2011-06-09 20:48:26 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: well done :)
3377 2011-06-09 20:48:39 huhuha has left ()
3378 2011-06-09 20:48:54 <NOT_SATOSHI> jgarzik: uhh
3379 2011-06-09 20:48:57 <TD> thanks. i need to refresh my memory about how to make this stick, as i don't use a permanent irc connection
3380 2011-06-09 20:49:01 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: added a -noseednodes flag to make that pretty easy to do
3381 2011-06-09 20:49:02 TheKid_ has joined
3382 2011-06-09 20:49:04 <NOT_SATOSHI> what am I doing wrong though?
3383 2011-06-09 20:49:11 <NOT_SATOSHI> I am using the right lib boost, I think
3384 2011-06-09 20:49:26 <sipa> jgarzik: ha, thanks :)
3385 2011-06-09 20:49:49 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: bitcoind -nolisten -noirc -noseednodes -daemon -datadir=emptydirexceptbitcoin.conf; :P
3386 2011-06-09 20:49:52 <jgarzik> TD: (a) register with chanserv or (b) get a bot to hold it for you.  Neither is difficult... nor trivial since I don't "own" #bitcoin-dev
3387 2011-06-09 20:50:03 <jgarzik> TD: IRC is a pain, as always ;)
3388 2011-06-09 20:50:12 <TD> yeah, i'm chatting with chanserv now.
3389 2011-06-09 20:50:12 <anddam> jrmithdobbs:   bitcoin @0.3.22_0 (active)
3390 2011-06-09 20:50:19 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: where are you getting the wx debug stuff?
3391 2011-06-09 20:50:23 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: I mean launching cli?
3392 2011-06-09 20:50:24 <TD> it's been years since i did this
3393 2011-06-09 20:50:30 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: on launch of the .app
3394 2011-06-09 20:50:36 <anddam> starting
3395 2011-06-09 20:50:37 <TheKid_> TD: what is missing from bitcoinj at the moment?
3396 2011-06-09 20:50:47 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: 2 connections
3397 2011-06-09 20:50:54 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: no error popups?
3398 2011-06-09 20:50:54 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: GUI started, receiving blocks
3399 2011-06-09 20:50:54 <TheKid_> as far as features that the main bitcoin client has
3400 2011-06-09 20:50:55 NOT_SATOSHI is now known as ajf
3401 2011-06-09 20:51:00 <TheKid_> besides a GUI
3402 2011-06-09 20:51:00 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: nothing at all
3403 2011-06-09 20:51:07 <TD> TheKid_: well, it targets a slightly different feature profile
3404 2011-06-09 20:51:11 sipa has quit (Changing host)
3405 2011-06-09 20:51:11 sipa has joined
3406 2011-06-09 20:51:11 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: my guess is it's up to your wxwidgets-devel
3407 2011-06-09 20:51:12 <ajf> gah. I really don't get what I'm doing wrong
3408 2011-06-09 20:51:14 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: can you put the makefile you used somewhere like pastebin?
3409 2011-06-09 20:51:22 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: which makefile
3410 2011-06-09 20:51:30 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: cause all i did was port install wxWidgets-devel; then built bitcoin
3411 2011-06-09 20:51:32 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: bitcoin's or wxwidgets'?
3412 2011-06-09 20:51:34 <TD> TheKid_: big one is fee rules. another is a proper p2p network layer
3413 2011-06-09 20:51:36 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: bitcoin's
3414 2011-06-09 20:51:48 <TD> TheKid_: right now you can get a list of peers, but you have to pick one to connect to yourself. if it goes away you're out of luck
3415 2011-06-09 20:51:54 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: or do you have a special wxWidgets-devel build that's not the standard one that comes from ports?
3416 2011-06-09 20:51:57 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3417 2011-06-09 20:52:03 <TD> there needs to be a class that sets up a pool of connections for you and switches between them
3418 2011-06-09 20:52:18 <TD> jgarzik: looks like sirius owns it. there are a few more admins i don't recognize
3419 2011-06-09 20:52:22 kreal- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3420 2011-06-09 20:52:28 <TheKid_> TD: right - I meant protocol things, can it handle blockchain reorgs and such?
3421 2011-06-09 20:52:32 <TheKid_> all the obscure stuff
3422 2011-06-09 20:52:39 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: apart the last patch in the ticket I submitted you (the one fixing install_name_tools) my wxwidgets-devel is standard
3423 2011-06-09 20:52:42 arienh4 has quit (Quit: leaving)
3424 2011-06-09 20:52:52 <TD> TheKid_: yeah it can do reorgs now
3425 2011-06-09 20:53:07 <TD> TheKid_: i need to do a new 0.2 release with refreshed docs and an announcement. i didn't get time yet.
3426 2011-06-09 20:53:13 <TD> was busy in the last couple of weeks with other stuff
3427 2011-06-09 20:53:14 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: nom I'm really confused then ;P
3428 2011-06-09 20:53:31 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: but the light is near
3429 2011-06-09 20:53:35 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: cause only changes i had to make to makefile.osx was the path to wx-config and to tell it to link wx dynamically vs statically
3430 2011-06-09 20:53:46 <jrmithdobbs> (and the dylib fix)
3431 2011-06-09 20:53:48 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: but that's in Portfile actually
3432 2011-06-09 20:53:55 <TheKid_> TD: okay, cool
3433 2011-06-09 20:54:04 <anddam> are you going to provide generic OS X build instructions?
3434 2011-06-09 20:54:04 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: i wasn't starting from the port because i was trying to build some changes I had made ;P
3435 2011-06-09 20:54:11 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: I see
3436 2011-06-09 20:54:57 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
3437 2011-06-09 20:54:58 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: i guess i'll look at the port and see what they're doing different if it works
3438 2011-06-09 20:55:06 <anddam> wait
3439 2011-06-09 20:55:31 <jrmithdobbs> ?
3440 2011-06-09 20:56:34 kreal- has joined
3441 2011-06-09 20:56:53 <TheKid_> I'm writing a blurb about it, anything you want me to put in specifically?
3442 2011-06-09 20:57:08 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: you can check it
3443 2011-06-09 20:57:35 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: huh
3444 2011-06-09 20:57:58 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: out of curiosity can you paste output of 'port -v installed wxwidgets-devel'
3445 2011-06-09 20:58:04 <anddam> ?
3446 2011-06-09 20:58:32 <anddam> I'd like to understand why "bitcoin -server" isn't working tho'
3447 2011-06-09 20:58:42 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: none right now because i don't have any installed ;P
3448 2011-06-09 20:58:43 <TheKid_> TD see above
3449 2011-06-09 20:58:50 <sipa> anddam: does bitcoin without -server work?
3450 2011-06-09 20:58:54 <TD> TheKid_: what is the blurb for? context?
3451 2011-06-09 20:58:57 <anddam> I'd like my backup script would either copy file or call RPC and save wallet
3452 2011-06-09 20:59:12 <anddam> sipa: quitting GUI before trying
3453 2011-06-09 20:59:19 <TheKid_> talking about alternative clients, yours is the furthest along as far as a complete rewrite
3454 2011-06-09 20:59:23 <TheKid_> as opposed to  a gui wrapper
3455 2011-06-09 20:59:45 <sipa> anddam: ?
3456 2011-06-09 20:59:56 <jgarzik> TD, sipa: any comments on a publicly archived, private membership mailing list for "us"?  The main goal was (a) capture the long CC lists we already see in email, while (b) publicly archiving to assuage people's cabal fears
3457 2011-06-09 21:00:03 <anddam> sipa: nope, there's an issue with libraries
3458 2011-06-09 21:00:13 <anddam> dyld: Library not loaded: libminiupnpc.5.dylib
3459 2011-06-09 21:00:35 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: probably going to need to do a similar dylib fix to what i pasted above
3460 2011-06-09 21:00:44 <anddam> I missed
3461 2011-06-09 21:01:05 <jrmithdobbs> install_name_tool -change /opt/local/var/macports/build/_opt_local_var_macports_sources_rsync.macports.org_release_ports_graphics_wxWidgets-devel/work/wxWidgets-2.9.1/build/lib/libwx_osx_cocoau-2.9.1.0.0.dylib /opt/local/lib/wx-devel/libwx_osx_cocoau-2.9.1.0.0.dylib bitcoin
3462 2011-06-09 21:01:08 <TD> jgarzik: sounds ok to me. though open membership with liz's code of conduct+rapid eviction in the case of offtopic behavior could also work
3463 2011-06-09 21:01:29 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: nope
3464 2011-06-09 21:01:39 <anddam> that would be on wxwidgets anyway and I already fixed that this morning
3465 2011-06-09 21:01:46 <TD> TheKid_: hrmm
3466 2011-06-09 21:01:46 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: using miniupnpc and the correct paths
3467 2011-06-09 21:01:51 <TD> TheKid_: well i don't have any particular blurb in mind
3468 2011-06-09 21:01:54 <anddam> this is libminiupnpc
3469 2011-06-09 21:02:09 <TD> TheKid_: i guess my thoughts on it are all in the forums. bitcoinj is going very nicely. lots of people are contributing
3470 2011-06-09 21:02:10 <jrmithdobbs> anddam: ya but it's same command with the libminiupnpc vals instead
3471 2011-06-09 21:02:13 <anddam> ah sure, I'm rebuilding to see if I can ld build a correct binary
3472 2011-06-09 21:02:18 <TD> perhaps because java is an easier/better known language than c++
3473 2011-06-09 21:02:20 <anddam> editing Portfile
3474 2011-06-09 21:02:25 <TD> i've been very happy with how it's gone
3475 2011-06-09 21:02:34 <Asphodelia> anddam: do you have your rpc user/pass set up?
3476 2011-06-09 21:02:44 <anddam> Asphodelia: I do
3477 2011-06-09 21:02:44 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: that import is taking forever using importprivkey
3478 2011-06-09 21:02:44 <sipa> jgarzik: any kind of mailing list would be useful now, i think
3479 2011-06-09 21:02:54 <TheKid_> TD: okay. I've gotta head out for now, I'll be back later
3480 2011-06-09 21:02:55 <Asphodelia> and you're giving it on the command line?
3481 2011-06-09 21:02:55 TheKid_ has quit (Quit: TheKid_)
3482 2011-06-09 21:03:01 TD is now known as TD[away]
3483 2011-06-09 21:03:01 <anddam> Asphodelia: I'm not
3484 2011-06-09 21:03:11 Taveren93HGK has joined
3485 2011-06-09 21:03:18 <Asphodelia> anddam: that's probably it
3486 2011-06-09 21:03:19 <anddam> I've been told RPC client would read bitcoin.conf as well
3487 2011-06-09 21:03:30 <jrmithdobbs> it will
3488 2011-06-09 21:03:33 <anddam> what's the point in a password if I have to provide it in clear on a command line?
3489 2011-06-09 21:03:39 <anddam> everyone on a system could look at it
3490 2011-06-09 21:03:41 <Asphodelia> Yes, to verify whether the password given on the command line is correct...
3491 2011-06-09 21:03:54 <anddam> Asphodelia: anyway I tried that too, it doesn't work as well
3492 2011-06-09 21:03:58 <Asphodelia> huh.
3493 2011-06-09 21:04:08 <nathan7> Java..
3494 2011-06-09 21:04:15 * Asphodelia shrugs.
3495 2011-06-09 21:04:17 Asphodelia has left ()
3496 2011-06-09 21:04:27 <jrmithdobbs> weee 6.2M    wallet.dat
3497 2011-06-09 21:04:57 <__gilles> hi
3498 2011-06-09 21:04:58 <diki> is the forum overloaded?
3499 2011-06-09 21:05:00 <diki> loads very slow
3500 2011-06-09 21:05:00 <nathan7> I'd handle anything that needs to mess with hash generation and all in C/C++
3501 2011-06-09 21:05:01 <jrmithdobbs> wow wallet.dat really blows things up size/wise
3502 2011-06-09 21:05:26 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: 279 bytes per private key, due to horribly inefficient encoding :)
3503 2011-06-09 21:05:29 <jrmithdobbs> the whole list of pub+priv+label+reserved/not is 3.2M on disk and it's still not done importing
3504 2011-06-09 21:05:31 <__gilles> the doc :-(
3505 2011-06-09 21:05:45 <__gilles> it's like bitcoin competes with openssl :-(
3506 2011-06-09 21:05:54 <anddam> afk for a while
3507 2011-06-09 21:05:56 <sipa> the doc?
3508 2011-06-09 21:06:11 <jrmithdobbs> __gilles: what
3509 2011-06-09 21:06:11 <__gilles> im trying to write a client
3510 2011-06-09 21:06:20 bdmk has left ()
3511 2011-06-09 21:06:20 <__gilles> but the specs are not to easy to work with :-)
3512 2011-06-09 21:08:48 d1234 has joined
3513 2011-06-09 21:09:03 lumos has left ("Leaving")
3514 2011-06-09 21:09:35 ahbritto has joined
3515 2011-06-09 21:10:29 zid` has joined
3516 2011-06-09 21:11:39 <zid`> Hi, I've just started working on a miner, but I'm still looking into how the whole thing works. So far I understand that I send a JSON request for getwork, which gives me some data to sha256 twice, right so far?
3517 2011-06-09 21:13:05 d1234 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3518 2011-06-09 21:13:15 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: you ser it's 279 bytes per? cause wallet.dat is now ~8MB and it's only a third of the way through
3519 2011-06-09 21:13:28 <jrmithdobbs> s/ser/sure/
3520 2011-06-09 21:13:50 achim has joined
3521 2011-06-09 21:13:56 <devrandom> jgarzik: I second TD's point on open-membership with code of conduct, so that potential contributors don't feel excluded
3522 2011-06-09 21:14:25 <zid`> also, is there any documentation around, the source of the bitcoint client seems a bit daunting (being as I don't read C++, and it's a large project)
3523 2011-06-09 21:14:38 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: #coffee ?
3524 2011-06-09 21:14:40 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: 279 bytes for private key, 65 extra bytes for the public key, plus some extra serialization bytes
3525 2011-06-09 21:15:16 <zid`> aha, found a nice wiki page
3526 2011-06-09 21:15:57 <zid`> http://pastebin.com/Ya3604J0 is what I wanted :)
3527 2011-06-09 21:16:10 <jrmithdobbs> drazak: ?
3528 2011-06-09 21:16:52 <sipa> jgarzik: think i agree with devrandom and TD; if what we're saying is public, there's not much reason not to allow others with possibly valuable input
3529 2011-06-09 21:17:02 <drazak> jrmithdobbs: it's a channel to talk about our love of coffe, with a fairly large population
3530 2011-06-09 21:17:15 <jrmithdobbs> zid`: where's that code from?
3531 2011-06-09 21:17:22 <zid`> jrmithdobbs: linked from the wiki
3532 2011-06-09 21:17:28 <zid`> Kinda useless actually
3533 2011-06-09 21:17:31 <jrmithdobbs> zid`: where on wiki?
3534 2011-06-09 21:17:33 <zid`> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm is the page that links it
3535 2011-06-09 21:17:42 d17v1Nmz has joined
3536 2011-06-09 21:17:57 <jrmithdobbs> who owns copyright on that?
3537 2011-06-09 21:18:02 <jrmithdobbs> cause there's no licensing info
3538 2011-06-09 21:18:12 <jgarzik> sipa, TD[away], devrandom: ok
3539 2011-06-09 21:18:16 pRjck3vC has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3540 2011-06-09 21:18:24 <zid`> shrug, check the history on the wiki page?
3541 2011-06-09 21:18:57 <zid`> Anyone want to spend 10 minutes talking to me about how bitcoin works?
3542 2011-06-09 21:19:04 <iera> is the fee still on 0.01?
3543 2011-06-09 21:19:21 <sipa> zid`: i suggest you to start reading the wiki and some forum threads about it
3544 2011-06-09 21:19:22 <iera> zid`: like podcasts?
3545 2011-06-09 21:19:28 <zid`> listening to a podcast now actually
3546 2011-06-09 21:19:32 <sipa> zid`: if you have specific questions, please ask in #bitcoin or here
3547 2011-06-09 21:19:35 <iera> that should clear it
3548 2011-06-09 21:19:35 <zid`> and browsing the wiki
3549 2011-06-09 21:19:54 <achim> continue browsing *gg* @zid`
3550 2011-06-09 21:20:03 <Optimo> oldschool fools love mailing lists - like me
3551 2011-06-09 21:20:13 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
3552 2011-06-09 21:20:20 arienh4 has joined
3553 2011-06-09 21:20:20 <zid`> sipa: basically just, I have a gap in my knowledge, I know you can send the data field with getwork query and the server tells you whether you 'won' or not, but I don't know what actually gets sent
3554 2011-06-09 21:20:36 <zid`> it obviously isn't per hash, that'd saturate my network :)
3555 2011-06-09 21:20:39 <iera> Optimo: nntp ^^
3556 2011-06-09 21:21:13 <Optimo> you got me there. that also is oldschool and cool
3557 2011-06-09 21:21:13 <spq> http://pastebin.com/FiDJURMy
3558 2011-06-09 21:21:18 <zid`> oh, any hash I find that's lower than target maybe..
3559 2011-06-09 21:21:41 <Optimo> I thikn it also creates...not a barrier to entry, but a hurdle.. or like a test of geek
3560 2011-06-09 21:21:52 <zid`> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Target that seems to be my favourite page so far :P
3561 2011-06-09 21:21:53 Jere_Jones has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3562 2011-06-09 21:21:59 <Optimo> litmus test?
3563 2011-06-09 21:22:00 <iera> Optimo: hm yeah, software exists to sync ml/forum/nntp
3564 2011-06-09 21:22:02 <spq> @zid, thats my implementation of the block checking algo
3565 2011-06-09 21:22:16 <iera> Optimo: but the forum obviously needs an api to do that, thats a problem
3566 2011-06-09 21:22:59 <benlake> bah, 30watts short...
3567 2011-06-09 21:23:29 <Optimo> I've used all kinds of other stuff: stackoverflow-like thing, zoho, campfire
3568 2011-06-09 21:23:33 <diki> ;;bc,stats
3569 2011-06-09 21:23:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129652 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1387 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 8 hours, 4 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 745355.05068370
3570 2011-06-09 21:23:36 <Optimo> get-satisfaction
3571 2011-06-09 21:24:00 BlueMatt has joined
3572 2011-06-09 21:24:01 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
3573 2011-06-09 21:24:01 BlueMatt has joined
3574 2011-06-09 21:24:04 <Optimo> I wonder if a facebook page+topic wall could be effective
3575 2011-06-09 21:24:08 <Optimo> (I hate facebook)
3576 2011-06-09 21:24:27 <zid`> spq: Was I right to say that I submit hashes if they're lower than the current target?
3577 2011-06-09 21:24:32 <iera> i dont like webinterfaces at all
3578 2011-06-09 21:24:40 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3579 2011-06-09 21:25:52 gsathya is now known as gsathya|away
3580 2011-06-09 21:25:58 darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3581 2011-06-09 21:26:00 <Optimo> but there are some young minds that might have valuable input - need a balance of oldschool and new
3582 2011-06-09 21:26:24 <BlueMatt> Hey, young minds are on irc too
3583 2011-06-09 21:26:25 xtalmath has joined
3584 2011-06-09 21:26:27 <BlueMatt> :)
3585 2011-06-09 21:26:32 <spq> hmm, wasnt the difficulty the number of 0's you must have at the beginning?
3586 2011-06-09 21:26:37 <spq> so, yes
3587 2011-06-09 21:26:53 <BlueMatt> pretty much, but converted to how much harder it is then the minimum difficulty
3588 2011-06-09 21:27:02 <xtalmath> Why does bitcoin.org no longer show hashes of downloads?
3589 2011-06-09 21:27:03 <zid`> 0000000000001D932F0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
3590 2011-06-09 21:27:07 <zid`> that's the current target
3591 2011-06-09 21:27:10 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,hextarget
3592 2011-06-09 21:27:12 <gribble> 0000000000001D932F0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
3593 2011-06-09 21:27:15 <BlueMatt> :)
3594 2011-06-09 21:27:17 <Optimo> lovely hash
3595 2011-06-09 21:27:18 <zid`> I'm searching for bitcoin hashes that are less than that?
3596 2011-06-09 21:27:24 <BlueMatt> yep
3597 2011-06-09 21:27:24 <sipa> yes
3598 2011-06-09 21:27:29 <xtalmath> Is precompiled binary compiled with propolice stack overflow protection?
3599 2011-06-09 21:27:35 <zid`> and I submit along with the getwork json query when I find it?
3600 2011-06-09 21:27:35 <iera> Optimo: yeah right, but still and especially for high-profile stuff nntp is best imho
3601 2011-06-09 21:27:38 Slix` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3602 2011-06-09 21:27:47 <Optimo> I'm liking nntp
3603 2011-06-09 21:27:55 <zid`> nntp is the news protocol isn't it?
3604 2011-06-09 21:28:02 <Optimo> yes
3605 2011-06-09 21:28:03 <iera> right
3606 2011-06-09 21:28:05 <BlueMatt> so, whats going on with 0.3.23, are we gonna merge connect timeout and rc it, or do more fee stuff than just MIN_FEE = 0.0005?
3607 2011-06-09 21:28:18 <iera> BlueMatt ++
3608 2011-06-09 21:28:23 <Optimo> I think connection stuff is for 1.4?
3609 2011-06-09 21:28:28 <iera> for MIN_FEE
3610 2011-06-09 21:28:29 <spq> 00000000000004208e9c119cec39c13039adcf4b2f79a5c03783a21f433d18ae
3611 2011-06-09 21:28:30 <BlueMatt> no, connect timout is now
3612 2011-06-09 21:28:33 <Optimo> err 0.3.4
3613 2011-06-09 21:28:34 <spq> thats the last winner
3614 2011-06-09 21:28:36 <Optimo> oh
3615 2011-06-09 21:28:53 <zid`> So as I understand it, I find out the target, I call getwork which gives me a place to start, I do the double hash and check it against the target, and increment and hash again, until I need to request a new start point?
3616 2011-06-09 21:28:56 <BlueMatt> 0.3.23 is the "oh shit lotsa media, we need to fix x and y quick"
3617 2011-06-09 21:29:09 <Optimo> yes yes of course
3618 2011-06-09 21:29:19 <Optimo> Fiesty Falconer
3619 2011-06-09 21:29:32 <sipa> BlueMatt: i'm in favor of merging connect timeout + gavin's suggested fix, do some sanity tests, and release rc
3620 2011-06-09 21:29:34 <xtalmath> is there a reason the main wiki page refers to download 3.21 and bitcoin org page 3.22?
3621 2011-06-09 21:29:59 num1-mac has joined
3622 2011-06-09 21:29:59 num1-mac has quit (Changing host)
3623 2011-06-09 21:29:59 num1-mac has joined
3624 2011-06-09 21:30:13 <spq> zid, do you have to request a new start?
3625 2011-06-09 21:30:13 brunner has joined
3626 2011-06-09 21:30:29 <Optimo> doesn't google newsgroups have the power to crawl a new group if we publish syndicate it?
3627 2011-06-09 21:30:36 darbsllim has joined
3628 2011-06-09 21:30:37 <Optimo> that gives an in for teh web-heads
3629 2011-06-09 21:30:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: which fix is that? 0.0001 relay or what?
3630 2011-06-09 21:30:43 <sipa> yes
3631 2011-06-09 21:30:55 <sipa> 0.0005 base fee, 0.0001 base relay fee
3632 2011-06-09 21:31:04 <BlueMatt> oh...hmmm I suppose thats probably the way to go to just get it out there asap
3633 2011-06-09 21:31:19 <iera> great :)
3634 2011-06-09 21:31:25 <iera> i hope people update
3635 2011-06-09 21:31:27 <BlueMatt> though you are doing the builds this time, Im leaving tomorrow and will only have internet on occasion
3636 2011-06-09 21:31:40 <sipa> how long will you be away?
3637 2011-06-09 21:31:49 <BlueMatt> ~1.75 weeks
3638 2011-06-09 21:31:56 <BlueMatt> portugal :)
3639 2011-06-09 21:31:58 Cablesaurus has joined
3640 2011-06-09 21:31:59 Cablesaurus has quit (Changing host)
3641 2011-06-09 21:31:59 Cablesaurus has joined
3642 2011-06-09 21:32:14 <BlueMatt> and when I get back, Im hoping each of my bitcoins are worth 100 :)
3643 2011-06-09 21:33:24 <__gilles> :)
3644 2011-06-09 21:33:43 <sipa> 100 zimbabwe dollars?
3645 2011-06-09 21:33:58 <BlueMatt> lol, I think we are looong past that
3646 2011-06-09 21:34:38 darbsllim_1 has joined
3647 2011-06-09 21:35:00 Lube has quit ()
3648 2011-06-09 21:36:08 kreal- has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3649 2011-06-09 21:36:42 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3650 2011-06-09 21:37:16 darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3651 2011-06-09 21:37:57 <Optimo> what happens if nobody is mining? anything remarkable?
3652 2011-06-09 21:38:17 <Optimo> besides the obvious...
3653 2011-06-09 21:38:17 <zid`> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getwork That look like it needs fleshing out a bit to anybody else?
3654 2011-06-09 21:38:52 esionvo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3655 2011-06-09 21:39:05 <zid`> Optimo: maybe the difficulty goes down instead so that twice as many hashes are generated in the next 2 weeks? :)
3656 2011-06-09 21:39:26 <yrralb> zid`: 1 week then
3657 2011-06-09 21:39:47 <yrralb> if you generate hashes at 2x the expected rate, then it will take 1/2 the time to reach the next difficulty
3658 2011-06-09 21:40:06 <zid`> I thought the difficulty was based on trying to maintain 2k blocks per 2 weeks?
3659 2011-06-09 21:40:22 <zid`> if nobody mines for a week, the generation time should be halved for the 2nd week to do that
3660 2011-06-09 21:40:35 <Optimo> is there a guideline that says the the design for client apps can't always be working on just a few hases via the 'generate coins' metho, in the background?
3661 2011-06-09 21:40:48 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3662 2011-06-09 21:41:09 <Optimo> do client apps have to not participate in mining by default?
3663 2011-06-09 21:41:13 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3664 2011-06-09 21:41:20 <iera> not at all
3665 2011-06-09 21:41:23 <Optimo> however inconsequential cpu mining may be
3666 2011-06-09 21:41:43 <[Tycho]> ;;seen MagicalTux
3667 2011-06-09 21:41:44 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 days, 21 hours, and 30 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> BlueMatt: on a Qt client, not C#
3668 2011-06-09 21:42:18 <Optimo> so we would consort in the future if we wanted to help ensure that mining power is spread out across more nodes, to make the client app actively doing work?
3669 2011-06-09 21:42:39 <Optimo> as devs there's little in our power, but something liek that is feasible
3670 2011-06-09 21:42:41 <xtalmath> 3.22 bitcoin client from bitcoin.org, doesnt open up, I double click nothing happens
3671 2011-06-09 21:42:46 pusle has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3672 2011-06-09 21:42:59 <xtalmath> it doesnt show up in system monitor
3673 2011-06-09 21:44:00 <Optimo> if anyone smart can opine on that idea, leave me an answer please ;)
3674 2011-06-09 21:44:02 <iera> Optimo: well you can enable it in the client
3675 2011-06-09 21:44:27 <Optimo> I know you can optionally enable it. but I wonder why there was no design to have this on by default?
3676 2011-06-09 21:44:42 <Optimo> or was it considered at all? just curiosity
3677 2011-06-09 21:44:49 <iera> because solo mining on your cpu is pretty worthless
3678 2011-06-09 21:44:53 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: waste of power
3679 2011-06-09 21:44:59 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: and I don't mean compute power
3680 2011-06-09 21:45:03 <jrmithdobbs> i mean electricity
3681 2011-06-09 21:45:08 <Optimo> yes
3682 2011-06-09 21:45:18 <jrmithdobbs> that's why
3683 2011-06-09 21:45:35 <Optimo> nobody was so foolish to suggest the notion before me
3684 2011-06-09 21:46:01 <iera> if the client would automatically join a pool you could consider it
3685 2011-06-09 21:46:02 <Optimo> things would have evolved differently in a very early time when cpu mining was effective
3686 2011-06-09 21:46:15 <jrmithdobbs> not really
3687 2011-06-09 21:47:03 <Optimo> I guess gpu mining really makes it a moot point.
3688 2011-06-09 21:47:06 dolch has joined
3689 2011-06-09 21:48:13 <ajf> next step...
3690 2011-06-09 21:48:16 <zid`> why does the bitcoin client take a long while to connect?
3691 2011-06-09 21:48:16 <ajf> quantum mining!
3692 2011-06-09 21:48:18 <Optimo> but if your dumb merchant bitcoin terminal pc was this cheap 'appliance' that you could buy, full of fpgas perhaps, then such a build of the client might be useful shortcut
3693 2011-06-09 21:48:20 <iera> also the design is made the way mining is profitable, so the market will follow and there will be enough mining capacity i think
3694 2011-06-09 21:48:28 <ajf> zid`: sometimes finds it hard to find other clients
3695 2011-06-09 21:48:31 <ajf> just wait a while
3696 2011-06-09 21:48:32 <xtalmath> mine isnt taking a long time to connect, simply doesnt run
3697 2011-06-09 21:48:43 <zid`> what is it actually doing when it's trying to connect?
3698 2011-06-09 21:48:52 <ajf> find other clients.
3699 2011-06-09 21:49:00 <ajf> It's peer-to-peer
3700 2011-06-09 21:49:02 <Optimo> it's a bug that it doesnt work quite right
3701 2011-06-09 21:49:18 <zid`> Right, but I'd hope I'm not bruteforcing the ipv4 address space to find them...
3702 2011-06-09 21:49:22 <iera> Optimo: there are no pcs with full of fpgas and it will probably not change in the near future
3703 2011-06-09 21:49:42 <Optimo> I shouldn't have said pc, but maybe a dense bitcoin appliance
3704 2011-06-09 21:49:47 <Optimo> meh, just random thoughts
3705 2011-06-09 21:50:06 <xtalmath> nm glibc was not up to date
3706 2011-06-09 21:50:09 kreal- has joined
3707 2011-06-09 21:50:11 <iera> hm yeah
3708 2011-06-09 21:50:18 eval has joined
3709 2011-06-09 21:50:52 fimp has joined
3710 2011-06-09 21:51:05 <Optimo> a client that randomly picks a pool. could be a neat idea for a far off time
3711 2011-06-09 21:51:06 <Optimo> ;p
3712 2011-06-09 21:51:19 <zid`> my client will support fallover onto different pools
3713 2011-06-09 21:51:23 <zid`> when I get the thing working :P
3714 2011-06-09 21:51:30 <gjs278> poclbm-gui has fallover I think
3715 2011-06-09 21:51:37 <Optimo> what's your development platform?
3716 2011-06-09 21:51:40 minemoney has joined
3717 2011-06-09 21:51:50 <zid`> dev platform is a linux machine with 3 ati cards I have ssh access to
3718 2011-06-09 21:51:54 <zid`> but the code is agnostic to platform
3719 2011-06-09 21:51:55 <iera> you can have all sorts of clients
3720 2011-06-09 21:51:56 <zid`> so far
3721 2011-06-09 21:52:12 <Optimo> language?
3722 2011-06-09 21:52:15 <zid`> C
3723 2011-06-09 21:52:20 <Optimo> hooray
3724 2011-06-09 21:52:21 <zid`> With OpenCl
3725 2011-06-09 21:52:21 <spq> how can i see which bitcoins are left in my account (i mean the bitcoin fragments i received from multiple people)
3726 2011-06-09 21:52:34 <sipa> spq: not with the current client
3727 2011-06-09 21:52:40 <sipa> it hides those details from the user
3728 2011-06-09 21:52:41 <spq> not via rpc?
3729 2011-06-09 21:52:50 * zid` waits for his client to connect so he can sniff some RPC...
3730 2011-06-09 21:53:04 <Optimo> zid`, so your plans have a regular ui client that also does gpu mining?
3731 2011-06-09 21:53:14 <zid`> Optimo: UI? pfft :P
3732 2011-06-09 21:53:19 <Optimo> ok ok
3733 2011-06-09 21:53:28 <ajf> by the way
3734 2011-06-09 21:53:30 <zid`> It's basically just a program that reads a .conf full of logins in order of preference
3735 2011-06-09 21:53:40 <ajf> do any real alternative GUIs or clients exist yet?
3736 2011-06-09 21:53:43 <zid`> and it enumates all the gpus / accelerators / cpus
3737 2011-06-09 21:53:53 <zid`> and load's (atm) poclbm's BitcoinMiner.cl
3738 2011-06-09 21:53:57 <Optimo> ok that's serious stuff
3739 2011-06-09 21:54:04 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
3740 2011-06-09 21:54:21 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3741 2011-06-09 21:54:22 <zid`> It compiles and loads it atm, but I haven't hooked it up to the network yet because I sitll need to figure out the protocols and things
3742 2011-06-09 21:54:39 <Optimo> we need a for-dummies mainline gui client that ALSO can do all the gpu mining config anyone needs
3743 2011-06-09 21:54:41 Xunie has quit (Quit: Can God microwave a taco so hot that not even *HE* can eat it without burns?)
3744 2011-06-09 21:54:46 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3745 2011-06-09 21:54:51 <Optimo> and the glue to put some of that together probably exists already
3746 2011-06-09 21:54:55 Xunie has joined
3747 2011-06-09 21:55:19 <zid`> I'm not sure whether I will open source this yet
3748 2011-06-09 21:55:23 <Optimo> you're doing on testnet?
3749 2011-06-09 21:55:28 <zid`> testnet?
3750 2011-06-09 21:55:45 <Optimo> there's  test network for bitcoin
3751 2011-06-09 21:56:00 <zid`> that sounds like it might be handy, what makes it a test network?
3752 2011-06-09 21:56:01 <Optimo> test chain
3753 2011-06-09 21:56:08 <zid`> Does it have a really easy difficulty or something?
3754 2011-06-09 21:56:14 <Optimo> yeh that too iirc
3755 2011-06-09 21:56:26 <spq> i even managed to get 50testbtc there :P
3756 2011-06-09 21:56:28 <Optimo> it's slower to make blocks
3757 2011-06-09 21:56:28 <xtalmath> I vote for lower difficulty, faster adoption of btc!
3758 2011-06-09 21:56:37 <vegard> oh zid`
3759 2011-06-09 21:56:41 <zid`> hi vegard
3760 2011-06-09 21:56:45 stuhood has joined
3761 2011-06-09 21:56:51 <vegard> nice to see you here :) are you rich yet?
3762 2011-06-09 21:56:56 <stuhood> https://twitter.com/#!/jenniferdaniel/status/78923812959297536
3763 2011-06-09 21:56:57 <zid`> Nah, I have 1.74 BTC :P
3764 2011-06-09 21:57:08 <zid`> and 1 of that was for fixing the guy's machine I'm ssh'd into's overclock setup
3765 2011-06-09 21:57:37 <zid`> 0 connections *cry*
3766 2011-06-09 21:57:45 <vegard> ah, right.
3767 2011-06-09 21:57:49 <zid`> vegard: You doing linux kernel work now?
3768 2011-06-09 21:57:54 <zid`> Or did someone steal your name
3769 2011-06-09 21:57:57 <Optimo> stuhood, strange they call for miners explicitly, not just users of coins
3770 2011-06-09 21:58:10 <zid`> you (or he) rewrite printk with the log levels iirc
3771 2011-06-09 21:58:14 spitteler has joined
3772 2011-06-09 21:58:26 <stuhood> Optimo: i expect she didn't recognize the difference
3773 2011-06-09 21:58:32 <Optimo> :(
3774 2011-06-09 21:58:32 <spitteler> can anyone answer if the wallet.dat is the same file on both windows/mac
3775 2011-06-09 21:58:41 <spitteler> ie are they interchangable
3776 2011-06-09 21:58:46 <Optimo> yes
3777 2011-06-09 21:58:54 <spitteler> thank you optimo
3778 2011-06-09 21:59:00 <Optimo> I bring my usb drive to all machines
3779 2011-06-09 21:59:02 <vegard> zid`: eh, printk was bleh. I was too newbie back then. but I recently started working on kmemcheck2 :)
3780 2011-06-09 21:59:12 <zid`> So it is you, cool
3781 2011-06-09 21:59:16 <zid`> Paid for it?
3782 2011-06-09 21:59:22 <xtalmath> if one computer is low endian and other big endian youll have to rename it tad.tellaw
3783 2011-06-09 21:59:35 <vegard> zid`: no. hobby :)
3784 2011-06-09 21:59:40 <zid`> nice work then
3785 2011-06-09 21:59:44 <zid`> Teach me how bitcoin works :P
3786 2011-06-09 21:59:55 <Optimo> eliptic curves
3787 2011-06-09 22:00:07 <Optimo> converging series
3788 2011-06-09 22:00:33 stuhood has left ()
3789 2011-06-09 22:01:55 yellowhat has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3790 2011-06-09 22:01:55 <vegard> zid`: you can use me as a peer: 84.209.121.30
3791 2011-06-09 22:02:16 <zid`> no idea how to add a peer
3792 2011-06-09 22:02:27 <sipa> -addnode=84.209.121.30
3793 2011-06-09 22:02:30 <sipa> on the command line
3794 2011-06-09 22:02:43 <zid`> done thanks
3795 2011-06-09 22:03:21 <zid`> sigh, still no connections
3796 2011-06-09 22:03:22 <vegard> zid`: are you still on AOL. LOL
3797 2011-06-09 22:03:36 <zid`> no, we got cable like a decade ago
3798 2011-06-09 22:03:56 <zid`> actually, less
3799 2011-06-09 22:04:09 <Optimo> I actually had some luck deleting the addr.dat file and rebooting
3800 2011-06-09 22:04:13 scott` has joined
3801 2011-06-09 22:04:26 <sipa> zid`: also put -dnsseed on the command line
3802 2011-06-09 22:04:33 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
3803 2011-06-09 22:04:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 129658 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 1381 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 7 hours, 18 minutes, and 37 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 745537.50187148
3804 2011-06-09 22:04:59 <zid`> 1 connections, woo
3805 2011-06-09 22:05:03 whackedspinach has joined
3806 2011-06-09 22:05:33 <vegard> I have 68 connections within 5 minutes of launching bitcoind :D
3807 2011-06-09 22:06:05 TomyBoy3G has joined
3808 2011-06-09 22:06:08 <vegard> you could also try to open port 8333 in your router
3809 2011-06-09 22:06:29 <zid`> Won't that let people connect to me and query my stuff?
3810 2011-06-09 22:06:29 scott` has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3811 2011-06-09 22:06:52 scott`` has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3812 2011-06-09 22:07:14 <whackedspinach> I'd like to build a miner.  Are there any guides out there or should I just stare at pheonix and Diablo source code for a while?
3813 2011-06-09 22:07:24 <vegard> it won't be any different from your connecting to them. the connections are equal.
3814 2011-06-09 22:07:31 <iera> whackedspinach: look in the wiki
3815 2011-06-09 22:07:38 <vegard> if you open port *8332* however, then people can run json queries to your bitcoind
3816 2011-06-09 22:08:05 <spq> hm, running an empty(in the meaning of no/empty wallet) bitcoind on the router with opened port and then only connecting from the workstation to the routers bitcoind would make sense, wouldnt it?
3817 2011-06-09 22:08:19 <zid`> oh right, 8332
3818 2011-06-09 22:08:35 <whackedspinach> iera: alright, I'll take a look there.
3819 2011-06-09 22:08:42 TommyBoy3G has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3820 2011-06-09 22:09:53 <vegard> zid`: hey, why don't you breathe life into these old gameboys of ours, why, you could make a gameboy bitcoin miner!
3821 2011-06-09 22:09:59 <zid`> hah
3822 2011-06-09 22:10:16 <zid`> writing sha256 on a z80, hmm
3823 2011-06-09 22:10:37 <jrmithdobbs> might as well do it with pencil and aper
3824 2011-06-09 22:10:39 <jrmithdobbs> paper
3825 2011-06-09 22:10:39 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3826 2011-06-09 22:10:56 <spq> how could one automatically write incoming transactions for the own wallet into a database without polling?
3827 2011-06-09 22:11:13 <iera> rather hack mercedes cars and flash the firmware to mine
3828 2011-06-09 22:11:24 <jrmithdobbs> spq: listen to the p2p traffic and watch for them directly
3829 2011-06-09 22:11:24 <zid`> Will there be a cull of old blocks at any point from the chain? So like, only the last million are kept by most people's clients, but the full list is available if you want it
3830 2011-06-09 22:11:34 <sipa> spq: gavin's monitor patch
3831 2011-06-09 22:11:48 <spq> watching for the traffic is good
3832 2011-06-09 22:12:12 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: wow. 1.5 hours to import 35701 keys
3833 2011-06-09 22:12:32 <jrmithdobbs> that's crazy.
3834 2011-06-09 22:12:37 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: you should have prevented rescanning
3835 2011-06-09 22:12:48 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: there were no blocks to scan.
3836 2011-06-09 22:12:59 <jrmithdobbs> it has an empty blockchain.
3837 2011-06-09 22:13:12 <jrmithdobbs> so.... i did
3838 2011-06-09 22:13:15 <sipa> hmm
3839 2011-06-09 22:13:20 <Optimo> random thought: a messageboard that would let you post msgs to a bitcoin address - and then somehow only the address holder could read this message?
3840 2011-06-09 22:13:35 <zid`> Who is the person talking on this podcast btw?
3841 2011-06-09 22:13:42 AntiVigilante has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3842 2011-06-09 22:13:49 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i don't think it's your code directly though. getnewaddress takes orders of magnitude longer to gen an address than openssl does too
3843 2011-06-09 22:13:53 <xtalmath> has anyone considered viewing nonce bits as variables (taking as many as your memory can handle) and build a binary decision diagram (RO)BDD then computing hash, combining those bits that the pool requires to be 0 to measure your contribution, and then quickly enumerating all valid input combinations from high to low until it possibly finds a hash, this would maximize your income for a pool
3844 2011-06-09 22:14:03 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: even factoring in some fluff time for the rpc calls it's waaaaaay slow
3845 2011-06-09 22:14:23 <xtalmath> and since GPUs arent to my knowledge suitable for BDDs... it might bring mining back to cpu's
3846 2011-06-09 22:14:24 <vegard> xtalmath: yeah, more or less
3847 2011-06-09 22:14:44 Orborde has joined
3848 2011-06-09 22:14:54 <xtalmath> vegard: did you try it? or just consider it like me?
3849 2011-06-09 22:15:00 <sipa> xtalmath: you need 122 out of 128 sha256 rounds anyway
3850 2011-06-09 22:15:15 <xtalmath> what do you mean?
3851 2011-06-09 22:15:18 <sipa> you can probably optimize a little bit away using such a technique as what you propose
3852 2011-06-09 22:15:43 yellowhat has joined
3853 2011-06-09 22:15:48 <sipa> but almost every operation in those 122 rounds influences all relevant 32 output bits
3854 2011-06-09 22:15:58 <vegard> xtalmath: not BDDs, but other algebraic methods
3855 2011-06-09 22:16:04 <xtalmath> but when the BDD is computed, you can list all solutions for the nonce bits and the output bits you select...
3856 2011-06-09 22:16:12 <xtalmath> vegard: such as?
3857 2011-06-09 22:16:17 <sipa> i'd like to see you try
3858 2011-06-09 22:17:03 <zid`> ohh the centralized server is an irc server
3859 2011-06-09 22:17:12 <xtalmath> currently how many leading bits must be 0?
3860 2011-06-09 22:17:13 Lachesis has joined
3861 2011-06-09 22:17:51 <spq> ;;bc,hextarget
3862 2011-06-09 22:17:51 <gribble> 0000000000001D932F0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
3863 2011-06-09 22:18:03 <zid`> that's backwards?
3864 2011-06-09 22:18:05 <sipa> xtalmath: for a share, 32, and that won't change
3865 2011-06-09 22:18:17 <sipa> xtalmath: so you can specifically tune for that case
3866 2011-06-09 22:18:19 <zid`> or rather, big endian?
3867 2011-06-09 22:18:27 Props has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
3868 2011-06-09 22:18:30 <spq> 51?
3869 2011-06-09 22:18:30 <xtalmath> all pools use 32bits should be 0?
3870 2011-06-09 22:18:51 larsivi has joined
3871 2011-06-09 22:18:52 <vegard> xtalmath: the BDD would be too huge
3872 2011-06-09 22:19:23 <xtalmath> what do you mean, the size would depend on how many nonce bits you allow to vary
3873 2011-06-09 22:19:32 <xtalmath> if you include all it would indeed be too huge
3874 2011-06-09 22:20:33 <xtalmath> so say you can handle 10 bits bdd in your ram, then the remaining bits you would iterate over, for each iteration build a new bdd, and when you have it list all pool accepted hashes in once
3875 2011-06-09 22:20:36 yellowhat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3876 2011-06-09 22:20:59 B0g4r7_ has joined
3877 2011-06-09 22:21:38 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3878 2011-06-09 22:21:39 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
3879 2011-06-09 22:21:57 <vegard> I'm guessing that brute force on the GPU will still outperform it a million times over
3880 2011-06-09 22:22:03 <xtalmath> could be
3881 2011-06-09 22:22:17 <xtalmath> I wonder if BDDs can be parallellized
3882 2011-06-09 22:22:20 <zid`> My gpu only outperforms my cpu by x5 :(
3883 2011-06-09 22:22:44 <iera> vegard: do you think this couldnt be done on gpus?
3884 2011-06-09 22:22:46 <xtalmath> as soon as a pool of parallellized bdd can calculate faster than 10 minutes...
3885 2011-06-09 22:23:15 <vegard> iera: 23:09 < xtalmath> and since GPUs arent to my knowledge suitable for BDDs... it might bring mining back
3886 2011-06-09 22:23:19 <xtalmath> iera: you mean bdd construction?
3887 2011-06-09 22:23:28 <iera> ah sorry, didnt spot that line
3888 2011-06-09 22:23:32 <xtalmath> doubtable
3889 2011-06-09 22:23:40 <iera> right hm
3890 2011-06-09 22:23:48 kish has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3891 2011-06-09 22:23:49 <iera> i dont do opencl so no idea sadly
3892 2011-06-09 22:24:51 <xtalmath> the thing is BDDs grow quickly in size
3893 2011-06-09 22:25:23 <xtalmath> and the algorithm to construct them (to keep them reduced and ordered) I have only seen sequential, none parallel
3894 2011-06-09 22:25:31 <zid`> Basically, you can't do conditionals, on a gpu
3895 2011-06-09 22:25:33 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: still there?
3896 2011-06-09 22:25:42 <spq> how would one construct such a bdd?
3897 2011-06-09 22:25:44 <iera> hm ok
3898 2011-06-09 22:25:49 <xtalmath> well BDD is completely based on conditionals
3899 2011-06-09 22:25:52 <zid`> forming a graph or a tree is basically impossible
3900 2011-06-09 22:26:11 <spq> dont you have to calculate the result for the incoming variables at first?
3901 2011-06-09 22:26:25 <xtalmath> well in practice a hash table is used, for example using cantor combination function
3902 2011-06-09 22:26:27 <zid`> gpu kernels are basically a huge function
3903 2011-06-09 22:26:32 <zid`> you take 1000 x's and it runs f(x)
3904 2011-06-09 22:26:36 <zid`> and you get 1000 results
3905 2011-06-09 22:26:44 <vegard> xtalmath: well, maybe you could construct one BDD on each core in parallell :)
3906 2011-06-09 22:27:00 <iera> but that would blast the ram probably
3907 2011-06-09 22:27:17 <zid`> you can fake conditionals by using computed offsets
3908 2011-06-09 22:27:57 <xtalmath> http://www.google.be/search?q=parallel%20bdd%20package
3909 2011-06-09 22:28:00 <xtalmath> woops!
3910 2011-06-09 22:28:06 AntiVigilante has joined
3911 2011-06-09 22:29:41 * zid` still hasn't figure out much about how bitcoinminer.cl works
3912 2011-06-09 22:29:57 <zid`> I set out a couple of hours ago to understand it, and I'm still reading about bitcoin and sha256 and stuff >_<
3913 2011-06-09 22:30:09 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|Sleep
3914 2011-06-09 22:30:52 <zid`> I think I found the c source it was adapted from though, the variable names are all the same, might just be convention though
3915 2011-06-09 22:32:22 <whackedspinach> zid`: could I get a link perhaps?
3916 2011-06-09 22:32:25 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3917 2011-06-09 22:32:40 B0g4r7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3918 2011-06-09 22:32:57 <zid`> whackedspinach: to?
3919 2011-06-09 22:33:09 anarchyx has quit ()
3920 2011-06-09 22:33:14 <whackedspinach> zid`: this c source you are reading
3921 2011-06-09 22:33:21 <zid`> sha256.c I found by google
3922 2011-06-09 22:33:22 <diki> okay, we are arguing on btcguild that sending diff 1 shares is bruteforcing the hash which is normally at diff 500k
3923 2011-06-09 22:33:24 <zid`> closed the tab a while back
3924 2011-06-09 22:33:42 <whackedspinach> zid`: alright thanks
3925 2011-06-09 22:33:46 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3926 2011-06-09 22:34:51 <diki> they say that the diff 1 shares is just a way to split the rewards between users, but pushpool sometimes forwards the diff 1 share directly to bitcoin
3927 2011-06-09 22:35:03 <diki> and sometimes it actually matches a diff 500k target/hash
3928 2011-06-09 22:35:18 Props has joined
3929 2011-06-09 22:35:27 <jrmithdobbs> wtf do you mean bruteforcing?
3930 2011-06-09 22:35:40 <jrmithdobbs> the whole hash lottery is "brute forcing" so of course you are ....
3931 2011-06-09 22:35:55 <diki> then consider it easier bruteforcing
3932 2011-06-09 22:36:01 <jrmithdobbs> no it's not any easier
3933 2011-06-09 22:36:05 anarchyx has joined
3934 2011-06-09 22:36:12 <jrmithdobbs> you still can't win unless you really beat the target
3935 2011-06-09 22:36:28 <jrmithdobbs> lower diff just increases network usage and gives the pools a method for doing POW
3936 2011-06-09 22:36:29 <diki> but pushpool forwards the diff 1 hash to bitcoin(sometimes)
3937 2011-06-09 22:36:36 <jrmithdobbs> for splitting out the shares
3938 2011-06-09 22:36:42 <diki> to bitcoin
3939 2011-06-09 22:36:50 <jrmithdobbs> diki: of course? when it thinks it's found one that is actually under the real target.
3940 2011-06-09 22:36:52 <diki> not a diff 500k share
3941 2011-06-09 22:36:54 Mononofu has left ()
3942 2011-06-09 22:37:11 <jrmithdobbs> how can you have been messing with this stuff for weeks and still not understand this
3943 2011-06-09 22:37:18 <diki> no matter how i look at it, i still have a higher chance of finding a block like that
3944 2011-06-09 22:37:24 <jrmithdobbs> no
3945 2011-06-09 22:37:26 <jrmithdobbs> you don't
3946 2011-06-09 22:37:34 <vegard> hihi
3947 2011-06-09 22:37:52 <zid`> cool, bitcoinminer.cl uses the midstate
3948 2011-06-09 22:38:04 <zid`> vegard do you read python? :/
3949 2011-06-09 22:38:09 <jrmithdobbs> diki: previous work does not affect future results. ever. period.
3950 2011-06-09 22:38:21 <diki> did i ever say previous work?
3951 2011-06-09 22:38:21 <jrmithdobbs> diki: submitting more shares that are above the target is never going to net you more blocks.
3952 2011-06-09 22:38:31 <diki> all i am saying is that miner sends diff 1 hash
3953 2011-06-09 22:38:41 <diki> which sometimes solves a hash from current diff
3954 2011-06-09 22:38:58 <jrmithdobbs> it does not increase your odds of doing so, like you said, though
3955 2011-06-09 22:39:01 <zid`> slush has a form post explaining why you can't just keep hashes that solve the official difficulty
3956 2011-06-09 22:39:10 <vegard> zid`: sure, I don't write it, though.
3957 2011-06-09 22:39:16 anarchyx has quit (Client Quit)
3958 2011-06-09 22:39:24 <jrmithdobbs> zid`: it's POW
3959 2011-06-09 22:39:28 <jrmithdobbs> (proof of work)
3960 2011-06-09 22:39:33 <zid`> vegard: find out how BitcoinMiner.py delivers its input data to the kernel
3961 2011-06-09 22:39:35 anarchyx has joined
3962 2011-06-09 22:39:55 <vegard> zid`: you do it, you obviously need the practice :-P
3963 2011-06-09 22:39:55 <zid`> line 301 invokes the kernel
3964 2011-06-09 22:40:07 <zid`> No, I will never touch python again after this
3965 2011-06-09 22:40:11 <zid`> I can't stand the crap
3966 2011-06-09 22:40:24 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs, diki: pushpool forwards solutions with 40 bits of zeroes
3967 2011-06-09 22:40:31 dc11_ has joined
3968 2011-06-09 22:40:34 <jgarzik> diff-1 + 8 more bits
3969 2011-06-09 22:40:37 <D0han> zid`: after what?
3970 2011-06-09 22:40:47 <diki> who is correct jgarzik?
3971 2011-06-09 22:40:48 <slush> zid`: yes, miner know just block header, not block itself, so nothing to broadcast to network. Plus, signed blockheader contain 50 BTC transaction to pool's wallet.
3972 2011-06-09 22:40:49 <zid`> I'm done loading bitcoinminer.cl with the correct input
3973 2011-06-09 22:40:59 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: ya i know
3974 2011-06-09 22:41:10 <zid`> slush: I don't know enough to understand what that means, I just know you made the post :)
3975 2011-06-09 22:41:16 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs, diki: thus, pushpool forwards plenty of obviously-wrong solutions to bitcoind
3976 2011-06-09 22:41:29 * zid` has no idea how a client can perform work to generate a block that doesn't mean he can just create blocks
3977 2011-06-09 22:41:32 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: which does not increase odds of finding one that is right
3978 2011-06-09 22:41:37 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: which is what i'm saying
3979 2011-06-09 22:41:44 <vegard> diki: jrmithdobbs is right, sending diff-1 shares doesn't help your probabilities
3980 2011-06-09 22:41:47 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: indeed
3981 2011-06-09 22:41:51 <Optimo> zid: proof of work
3982 2011-06-09 22:41:59 Nicksasa is now known as Sleep!~Nicksasa@178-117-211-223.access.telenet.be|Nicksasa
3983 2011-06-09 22:42:04 <slush> zid`: ok, I didn't read previous discussion, I just replied to your post :)
3984 2011-06-09 22:42:05 <zid`> Optimo: You thought saying that was magically going to teach me?
3985 2011-06-09 22:42:10 <jgarzik> all it does is waste bitcoind CPU :)
3986 2011-06-09 22:42:19 <Optimo> zid. umm read up on the subject
3987 2011-06-09 22:42:20 ajf is now known as ajf|offline
3988 2011-06-09 22:42:22 <jgarzik> makes things a teeny tiny bit less efficnet
3989 2011-06-09 22:42:23 <ajf> offline!~ajf@78.129.159.151|guten nacht.
3990 2011-06-09 22:42:24 <jgarzik> *efficient
3991 2011-06-09 22:42:25 devon_hillard has joined
3992 2011-06-09 22:42:26 <zid`> Optimo: I don't need to? :)
3993 2011-06-09 22:42:44 <Optimo> zif. i always tell people to watch Security Now episode 287
3994 2011-06-09 22:42:49 <diki> i will believe that if for 2 weeks i do not generate a block
3995 2011-06-09 22:43:38 <Optimo> zid. the hash with all those zeroes is hard to fake
3996 2011-06-09 22:43:47 <Optimo> really really hard
3997 2011-06-09 22:44:04 <zid`> Optimo: Let me just explain what I know, so you can fill the gaps.
3998 2011-06-09 22:44:11 Props has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
3999 2011-06-09 22:44:11 <Optimo> nope
4000 2011-06-09 22:44:20 <zid`> don't bother trying to explain then
4001 2011-06-09 22:44:23 <zid`> it'll never mesh with what I already know
4002 2011-06-09 22:44:28 Stove has quit ()
4003 2011-06-09 22:44:39 <Optimo> proof of work concept is rather interesting
4004 2011-06-09 22:44:41 <vegard> zid`: the hash is basically a pseudo-random string of digits.
4005 2011-06-09 22:44:46 * zid` goes back to staring at python
4006 2011-06-09 22:45:05 <vegard> in other words, the probability of the first 30, 40, 50 of them being all 0 is very small
4007 2011-06-09 22:45:13 <zid`> vegard: yes, I know that.
4008 2011-06-09 22:45:16 <zid`> see what I mean?
4009 2011-06-09 22:45:19 <vegard> it's the same thing as cracking a password
4010 2011-06-09 22:45:35 <vegard> it takes time. but once you have the password, you can present it as proof that you did the work required to crack it
4011 2011-06-09 22:46:26 <zid`> I don't understand how you can do pooled mining securely
4012 2011-06-09 22:46:40 <zid`> (The clients not having hashes that work to redeem BTC on their end, but it magically can do on the pool daemon's end)
4013 2011-06-09 22:46:54 <vegard> it's because they don't have all the information they need to submit the block
4014 2011-06-09 22:47:02 gruez has joined
4015 2011-06-09 22:47:04 <anddam> jrmithdobbs: fixed libminiupnpc
4016 2011-06-09 22:47:08 <zid`> Okay.
4017 2011-06-09 22:47:21 <vegard> the pool has that info. and it doesn't give it away to the miners
4018 2011-06-09 22:47:34 <zid`> is this part of the design or did it just get noticed and exploited?
4019 2011-06-09 22:47:52 <diki> and why vegard does diff 1 not increase my chances?
4020 2011-06-09 22:47:55 <anddam> sipa: so "bitcoin" should provide GUI, right?
4021 2011-06-09 22:48:13 <vegard> I'm guessing it was a lucky accident. but I don't know. I don't think satoshi thought of pooled mining
4022 2011-06-09 22:48:20 <Optimo> it is distributed work
4023 2011-06-09 22:48:23 <vegard> diki: why would it?
4024 2011-06-09 22:48:25 <jgarzik> zid`: the pool hands out the work.  miners submit solutions.  every once in a while, a diff-1 solution will be a full solution.
4025 2011-06-09 22:48:39 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4026 2011-06-09 22:48:41 <zid`> jgarzik: Yes, we covered that.
4027 2011-06-09 22:48:43 darbsllim_1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4028 2011-06-09 22:48:45 <diki> for pools with 2000 works it's more than once in a while
4029 2011-06-09 22:48:56 <diki> no matter how i look at it
4030 2011-06-09 22:49:00 <diki> it's easier that way
4031 2011-06-09 22:49:05 <jgarzik> zid`: what do you think is insecure?
4032 2011-06-09 22:49:13 <zid`> jgarzik: I don't.
4033 2011-06-09 22:49:19 <Optimo> distributed work seems like it would have been inevitable even if satoshi had thought about pools
4034 2011-06-09 22:49:19 <zid`> I didn't understand how it COULD be, vegard told me
4035 2011-06-09 22:49:35 <jgarzik> vegard: satoshi invented pooled mining
4036 2011-06-09 22:49:40 <spq> even if the user would have the required stuff - it would have to restart the search when it has found a good solution and wants to modify the block to contain his address instead of the address of the pool
4037 2011-06-09 22:49:49 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|Sleep
4038 2011-06-09 22:49:53 Titeuf_87_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
4039 2011-06-09 22:49:55 <vegard> jgarzik: oh really? ok, maybe I should just shut up.
4040 2011-06-09 22:50:04 <zid`> I vote you pay a BTC fine
4041 2011-06-09 22:50:06 <zid`> to me
4042 2011-06-09 22:50:08 <Optimo> zid. zombie machine pools are not a new idea. the logistical problem is how to dole out work
4043 2011-06-09 22:50:15 Props has joined
4044 2011-06-09 22:50:19 <zid`> zombie machine pool?
4045 2011-06-09 22:50:36 <zid`> I have no idea why people are still talking to me
4046 2011-06-09 22:50:43 <zid`> I asked a question and it was answered
4047 2011-06-09 22:51:11 <picci> hey, i'm running bitcoind and having a little bit of trouble with the sendtoaddress function...
4048 2011-06-09 22:51:19 <picci> basically it says the amount should be an array
4049 2011-06-09 22:51:20 <Optimo> well this is a dev chat, and i think you said you were workin on some implementation
4050 2011-06-09 22:51:27 <picci> while i just send in a float..
4051 2011-06-09 22:51:40 <zid`> Optimo: I was yea, but it's completely irrelevent, I'm just a client
4052 2011-06-09 22:51:58 <jgarzik> you can grief pools by denying them full solutions
4053 2011-06-09 22:52:01 <jgarzik> but that costs you money
4054 2011-06-09 22:52:06 <picci> anyone know how the sendtoaddress works?
4055 2011-06-09 22:52:20 <picci> (from php)
4056 2011-06-09 22:52:23 <vegard> diki: pools find solutions way more often than solo miners. but they have to distribute the winnings among all its miners. so they don't gain any more or less in the long run.
4057 2011-06-09 22:52:50 <zid`> vegard: statistically ;)
4058 2011-06-09 22:52:58 <xtalmath> what is a diff-1 solution?
4059 2011-06-09 22:53:09 <zid`> One that is easier than the official difficulty
4060 2011-06-09 22:53:11 <anddam> bye
4061 2011-06-09 22:53:14 <diki> but vegard, most of them find a block like every 400k shares
4062 2011-06-09 22:53:15 anddam has quit (Quit: anddam)
4063 2011-06-09 22:53:17 <zid`> is that what counts as a share btw?
4064 2011-06-09 22:53:25 <vegard> xtalmath: the lowest difficulty level. the first 32 bits of the hash must be 0
4065 2011-06-09 22:53:36 <vegard> zid`: yes
4066 2011-06-09 22:54:02 Nicksasa is now known as Sleep!~Nicksasa@178-117-211-223.access.telenet.be|Nicksasa
4067 2011-06-09 22:54:40 <vegard> diki: so?
4068 2011-06-09 22:54:43 vigilyn has joined
4069 2011-06-09 22:54:46 <iera> how can you guess the mhash/s as pool operator by looking at the proof-of-work rate? do you have to just estimate with a table?
4070 2011-06-09 22:54:51 <xtalmath> whats the problem with some diff-1 solutions being full solutions then? ALL full solutions are diff-1 solutions...
4071 2011-06-09 22:55:06 <zid`> maybe I should just find m0mchil and ask him how poclbm works
4072 2011-06-09 22:55:44 <vegard> xtalmath: is there a problem?
4073 2011-06-09 22:55:59 <comboy> https://twitter.com/#!/wikileaks/status/78906603948093440 :D
4074 2011-06-09 22:56:00 <xtalmath> i dont think so
4075 2011-06-09 22:56:11 <jgarzik> zid`: it's pretty short source code, easy to read.  why bother m0mchil?
4076 2011-06-09 22:56:13 <picci> vegard, do you know anything about implementing sendtoaddress in php?
4077 2011-06-09 22:56:26 <zid`> jgarzik: because I don't know python
4078 2011-06-09 22:56:38 <xtalmath> oh well yeah, i didnt invest in btc when it was reaaally cheap, investing just didnt cross my mind, I knew it would grow but I was obsessed with trying to find a flaw in the implementation...
4079 2011-06-09 22:56:40 <vegard> picci: I don't know anything about php :-) but can't you just use an ajax call to your local bitcoind?
4080 2011-06-09 22:56:44 <zid`> and have a tenuous grasp of how opencl works, and bitcoin
4081 2011-06-09 22:56:47 <jgarzik> zid`: then read cpuminer or pyminer
4082 2011-06-09 22:56:55 <quellhorst> is there ruby code for bitcoin?
4083 2011-06-09 22:57:00 <zid`> jgarzik: won't help me, I'm stealing bitcoinminer.cl
4084 2011-06-09 22:57:07 <picci> that's what i do, but i get this error:
4085 2011-06-09 22:57:09 <picci> Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'Exception' with message 'Unable to connect to http://picci:lulz12310931023@127.0.0.1:31339/' in /var/sites/botcoin/jsonrpcphp/includes/jsonRPCClient.php:140
4086 2011-06-09 22:57:09 <picci> Stack trace:
4087 2011-06-09 22:57:09 <picci> #0 [internal function]: jsonRPCClient->__call('sendtoaddress', Array)
4088 2011-06-09 22:57:09 <picci> #1 /var/sites/botcoin/send.php(5): jsonRPCClient->sendtoaddress
4089 2011-06-09 22:57:30 Eleuthria has joined
4090 2011-06-09 22:57:32 Eleuthria has left ()
4091 2011-06-09 22:57:42 <jrmithdobbs> zid`: you can't steal something in the public domain ;P
4092 2011-06-09 22:57:45 <picci> what could be the error ?
4093 2011-06-09 22:57:51 <vegard> picci: so it was unable to connect. is your port correct? 31339 ? is bticoind running at 127.0.0.1 ?
4094 2011-06-09 22:57:54 <jgarzik> zid`: if you can read source code, you can read python :)  it is very straightforward.  it's not really fair to m0mchil, he doesn't have time to teach everyone mining.
4095 2011-06-09 22:57:58 darbsllim has joined
4096 2011-06-09 22:58:09 <picci> @vegard, it's running on localhost to test it, yes
4097 2011-06-09 22:58:21 <picci> but the problem is that it's responding to everything
4098 2011-06-09 22:58:24 <picci> except that function
4099 2011-06-09 22:58:24 <Optimo> jgarzik . enjoyed reading your response/rebuttal
4100 2011-06-09 22:58:36 <zid`> jgarzik: This has no flow, it's hard to read from that perspective, and I don't know the syntax, so it's hard to read from that perspective
4101 2011-06-09 22:58:39 <Optimo> good to have such a cool head
4102 2011-06-09 22:58:50 <vegard> picci: well, it said unable to connect. so check if you got the URL right
4103 2011-06-09 22:59:24 <zid`> data   = np.array(unpack('IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII', work['data'][128:].decode('hex')),
4104 2011-06-09 22:59:32 <zid`> That isn't very straight forward to me
4105 2011-06-09 22:59:44 <Optimo> that is easy to understand
4106 2011-06-09 22:59:46 <vegard> RTFM! RTFM! RTFM! :-p
4107 2011-06-09 22:59:49 <zid`> if you know python
4108 2011-06-09 22:59:52 <Optimo> no
4109 2011-06-09 22:59:59 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
4110 2011-06-09 23:00:08 <phantomcircuit> britcoin is back up
4111 2011-06-09 23:00:16 <zid`> Maybe I should just shove a crap load of prints into it :P
4112 2011-06-09 23:00:23 darbsllim_1 has joined
4113 2011-06-09 23:00:33 Breign has joined
4114 2011-06-09 23:00:35 <Optimo> i guess you dont do ecmascript either?
4115 2011-06-09 23:00:46 trentzb has joined
4116 2011-06-09 23:00:49 <picci> it's not a connection problem
4117 2011-06-09 23:00:55 <zid`> A very small amount, it's much easier to read than python
4118 2011-06-09 23:00:58 <zid`> even when they use closures
4119 2011-06-09 23:01:00 <picci> it's the problem with that function
4120 2011-06-09 23:01:04 <picci> it says it wants an array
4121 2011-06-09 23:01:08 <picci> but i dunno what array to give it
4122 2011-06-09 23:01:20 <picci> jsonRPCClient->__call('sendtoaddress', Array)
4123 2011-06-09 23:01:33 <picci> aha, nvm
4124 2011-06-09 23:01:54 dc11_ has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
4125 2011-06-09 23:01:59 <picci> the array is supposed to be address,amount
4126 2011-06-09 23:02:32 darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4127 2011-06-09 23:02:43 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4128 2011-06-09 23:02:50 <Optimo> it does have a bit of one-liner attitude, but you can break it apart in yur head if not on paper
4129 2011-06-09 23:03:17 <zid`> I have no idea what the [128:] bit does
4130 2011-06-09 23:03:32 <zid`> or what the type of absolutely anything is :P
4131 2011-06-09 23:03:38 <Optimo> take two guesses and you would probably be right
4132 2011-06-09 23:03:38 <zid`> does python have types?
4133 2011-06-09 23:03:45 <sipa> takes the 128th bit until the end
4134 2011-06-09 23:03:49 <zid`> bit? christ
4135 2011-06-09 23:03:53 <zid`> I never would have guessed that
4136 2011-06-09 23:03:57 <spq> its substring - the chars after the first 128 chars
4137 2011-06-09 23:04:06 * zid` notes how that doesn't agree :)
4138 2011-06-09 23:04:10 <spq> bit?
4139 2011-06-09 23:04:12 <xtalmath> what prevents deepbit from witholding a solution and calculating the next hash whenever it finds an early solution? the rest is still trying to continue the 1 block shorter chain, they could delay it for minutes and have advantage
4140 2011-06-09 23:04:17 <Optimo> 128th element of a char array sorta
4141 2011-06-09 23:04:28 <spq> i think thats a hex sdtring
4142 2011-06-09 23:04:33 <spq> and its then decoded
4143 2011-06-09 23:05:22 <spq> and theres a new array created from it with 16* 32bit integers(or is I the code for 64bit ints?)
4144 2011-06-09 23:06:11 <spq> uint32
4145 2011-06-09 23:06:17 <Optimo> I have never used python either but nothing there says 'better ask the author'
4146 2011-06-09 23:06:30 <Optimo> just some sugar lumps
4147 2011-06-09 23:06:49 <aximilation> ;;bc,generate 300000
4148 2011-06-09 23:06:50 <gribble> Error: "bc,generate" is not a valid command.
4149 2011-06-09 23:06:54 <[Tycho]> What's the current difficulty on the testnet ?
4150 2011-06-09 23:06:59 <aximilation> what was that command?
4151 2011-06-09 23:07:01 <diki> 38
4152 2011-06-09 23:07:02 <zid`> Optimo: Why not? he might be a cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything
4153 2011-06-09 23:07:13 <whackedspinach> ,,bc,gen 100000
4154 2011-06-09 23:07:13 <diki> or less
4155 2011-06-09 23:07:13 <gribble> (bc,gen <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "echo The expected generation output, at $1 Khps, given current difficulty of [bc,diff], is [math calc 50*24*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per day and [math calc 50*60*60 / (1/((2**224-1)/[bc,diff]*$1*1000/2**256))] BTC per hour.".
4156 2011-06-09 23:07:23 <diki> 10-14?
4157 2011-06-09 23:07:24 <aximilation> thanks
4158 2011-06-09 23:07:28 Theo` has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
4159 2011-06-09 23:07:33 Theo has joined
4160 2011-06-09 23:07:38 diki has quit ()
4161 2011-06-09 23:07:49 r2k has joined
4162 2011-06-09 23:07:57 <aximilation> ,,bc gen 188000
4163 2011-06-09 23:07:58 <gribble> Error: "bc" is not a valid command.
4164 2011-06-09 23:07:59 <Optimo> zid. because it looks trivial to figure out. you have seen much worse source I am sure
4165 2011-06-09 23:08:20 <aximilation> ;;bc, gen 188000
4166 2011-06-09 23:08:21 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
4167 2011-06-09 23:08:29 <aximilation> ,,bc, gen 188000
4168 2011-06-09 23:08:30 <gribble> I do not know about 'bc,', but I do know about these similar topics: 'bbe'
4169 2011-06-09 23:08:32 <spq> ;;bc,gen 188000
4170 2011-06-09 23:08:32 <zid`> Optimo: If it's so trivial, I don't understand why it's so hard
4171 2011-06-09 23:08:32 <aximilation> bah
4172 2011-06-09 23:08:33 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 188000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 0.333291609006 BTC per day and 0.0138871503752 BTC per hour.
4173 2011-06-09 23:08:37 <r2k> headers.h:30:19: fatal error: wx/wx.h: No such file or directory ? trying to build bitcoin client with minGW on windows
4174 2011-06-09 23:08:43 <aximilation> oh there we go
4175 2011-06-09 23:08:45 <r2k> what could be wrong?
4176 2011-06-09 23:08:50 <zid`> r2k: need wxwidgets
4177 2011-06-09 23:08:53 <aximilation> ,,bc, gen 300000
4178 2011-06-09 23:08:53 <gribble> I do not know about 'bc,', but I do know about these similar topics: 'bbe'
4179 2011-06-09 23:08:55 <Optimo> transcribing from another languae should be somewhat challenging
4180 2011-06-09 23:09:08 <aximilation> ;;bc, gen 300000
4181 2011-06-09 23:09:08 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
4182 2011-06-09 23:09:15 <spq> aximilation: your mistyping again and again...
4183 2011-06-09 23:09:19 F4C3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4184 2011-06-09 23:09:27 <whackedspinach> no space before gen
4185 2011-06-09 23:09:29 <aximilation> yea I see that
4186 2011-06-09 23:09:30 <spq> ;;bc,gen 300000
4187 2011-06-09 23:09:31 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 0.531848312243 BTC per day and 0.0221603463435 BTC per hour.
4188 2011-06-09 23:09:33 * aximilation facepalm
4189 2011-06-09 23:09:36 <aximilation> thanks
4190 2011-06-09 23:09:42 <zid`> ;;bc,gen 24000
4191 2011-06-09 23:09:43 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 24000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 0.0425478649795 BTC per day and 0.00177282770748 BTC per hour.
4192 2011-06-09 23:10:06 <zid`> I should just ctrl-c this miner :P
4193 2011-06-09 23:10:08 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|Sleep
4194 2011-06-09 23:10:49 <spq> well, its 1.2$/day @ 30$/btc :)
4195 2011-06-09 23:11:27 <picci> ;;bc,gen 10000000
4196 2011-06-09 23:11:29 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 10000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 567358.22457067 , is 17.7282770748 BTC per day and 0.738678211449 BTC per hour.
4197 2011-06-09 23:11:40 <picci> !calc 17.7*29
4198 2011-06-09 23:11:47 <zid`> I have a nice bug in my drivers
4199 2011-06-09 23:12:02 <zid`> I get 44Mhash/s on a fresh boot, restart poclbm and I get 25Mhash/s until I need eboot
4200 2011-06-09 23:13:05 Jamesboo has joined
4201 2011-06-09 23:13:09 F4C3 has joined
4202 2011-06-09 23:14:42 <F4C3> hey bitcoin dev, was wondering what features you think would be an absolute must for end users using a hosted bitcoind service
4203 2011-06-09 23:15:43 GarrettB has joined
4204 2011-06-09 23:15:43 GarrettB has quit (Changing host)
4205 2011-06-09 23:15:43 GarrettB has joined
4206 2011-06-09 23:15:51 <GarrettB> what's the Javascript interface for bitcoin again
4207 2011-06-09 23:15:51 <GarrettB> ?
4208 2011-06-09 23:16:03 gruez has quit (Quit: Return false;)
4209 2011-06-09 23:16:19 <F4C3> http://tcatm.github.com/bitcoin-js-remote/
4210 2011-06-09 23:16:21 <F4C3> right?
4211 2011-06-09 23:17:01 <spitteler> Big thanks to KCanini to figuruing out the lastes OTC Scam  http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14045.msg191496#msg191496
4212 2011-06-09 23:18:13 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
4213 2011-06-09 23:18:29 r2k has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4214 2011-06-09 23:19:32 <zid`> the blanked out name is hondura btw
4215 2011-06-09 23:19:53 wolfspraul has joined
4216 2011-06-09 23:20:02 d17v1Nmz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4217 2011-06-09 23:20:13 fimp has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
4218 2011-06-09 23:20:18 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
4219 2011-06-09 23:20:23 pRjck3vC has joined
4220 2011-06-09 23:21:01 <dirtyfilthy> wow that's impressive
4221 2011-06-09 23:21:02 kermit has joined
4222 2011-06-09 23:22:16 <xtalmath> do bitcoin contracts allow bitcoin to be traded with namecoin where the 2 blockchains somehow act as escrow?
4223 2011-06-09 23:22:52 <sipa> no, there is no interaction between the two chains at all
4224 2011-06-09 23:22:54 <sipa> afaik
4225 2011-06-09 23:23:11 <xtalmath> can it be implemented with the scripting mechanism?
4226 2011-06-09 23:23:14 <sipa> no
4227 2011-06-09 23:23:28 <sipa> scripts can only refer to information in their own chain
4228 2011-06-09 23:23:57 <sipa> sorry, their own transaction evne
4229 2011-06-09 23:25:28 <F4C3> right, but you could set up an exchange if you wanted xtalmath
4230 2011-06-09 23:25:43 <GarrettB> spitteler: another reason not to use paypal :P
4231 2011-06-09 23:25:48 <xtalmath> yes, but what if there is a contract in both chains to propose agreement and as soon as these are confirmed each participant posts another contract to confirm they spotted the transaction (such that user is actually involved in looking in other chain)
4232 2011-06-09 23:25:59 <xtalmath> F4C3 how does that work exactly?
4233 2011-06-09 23:26:29 <xtalmath> I mean without trusted r3d party, just 2 participants and 2 blockchains
4234 2011-06-09 23:26:38 <GarrettB> tcatm: you there?
4235 2011-06-09 23:26:43 <F4C3> well i mean, it would be like any other exchange, either you serving as a sole exchanger are sitting on bitcoins, you write a script to that reads deposits of namecoins and then provides btc
4236 2011-06-09 23:26:49 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
4237 2011-06-09 23:26:50 <F4C3> just like any other currency exchange
4238 2011-06-09 23:27:03 DukeOfURL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4239 2011-06-09 23:27:10 <F4C3> oryou provide a place for the buying and selling of both
4240 2011-06-09 23:27:24 <sipa> xtalmath: it's possible with a system with linked chains
4241 2011-06-09 23:27:26 <HarryS> Is there some config option to limit bitcoin's bandwidth? I'm maxing out my upstream (100 KB/s) to a single .ru address on port 8333...
4242 2011-06-09 23:27:30 <sipa> but namecoin doesn't have that
4243 2011-06-09 23:27:43 <sipa> i mean, namecoin is a completely separate chain from bitcoin
4244 2011-06-09 23:28:05 fimp has joined
4245 2011-06-09 23:28:12 <F4C3> HarryS, thatd be a nice feature, hopefully itll show up someday, however then would we have problems with seed/leech type scenario?
4246 2011-06-09 23:28:25 <HarryS> I could use trickle, but that's boring
4247 2011-06-09 23:28:31 <sipa> HarryS: use -nolisten
4248 2011-06-09 23:28:53 <sipa> and -connect to connect to some fallback nodes or some random nodes you choose :)
4249 2011-06-09 23:28:55 <xtalmath> or is it possible to build an application apart from either chain, that uses 'duplex' oblivious transfer, such that private keys are either exchanged both ways or not
4250 2011-06-09 23:29:39 <F4C3> lol, i get it, crystal meth, took me that long
4251 2011-06-09 23:30:00 <GarrettB> anyone know tcatm's name?
4252 2011-06-09 23:30:28 <HarryS> if I don't listen I still get blocks yea?
4253 2011-06-09 23:30:39 <HarryS> I don't mind sharing, just don't want to max out my upstream.
4254 2011-06-09 23:30:52 picci has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4255 2011-06-09 23:30:57 fimp has quit (Client Quit)
4256 2011-06-09 23:30:57 <sipa> GarrettB: yes
4257 2011-06-09 23:31:16 <sipa> what for?
4258 2011-06-09 23:31:45 picci has joined
4259 2011-06-09 23:33:06 <GarrettB> sipa: need to give him proper credit in an article I'm writing
4260 2011-06-09 23:33:41 mmoya has joined
4261 2011-06-09 23:34:30 <gjs278> just put tcatm
4262 2011-06-09 23:36:05 <jrmithdobbs> is there any way to tell when -rescan finishes?
4263 2011-06-09 23:36:13 Jamesboo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4264 2011-06-09 23:37:04 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: it'll tell you in debug.log
4265 2011-06-09 23:37:19 <xtalmath> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Alternative_Chains#Paying_for_resources_on_alternative_chains_with_Bitcoins seems to imply its possible to guarantee the transaction both ways, but its quite complicated... Im not sure what prevents either party from not fullfilling his part of the agreement
4266 2011-06-09 23:37:21 <jrmithdobbs> what'll it say?
4267 2011-06-09 23:37:38 <jrmithdobbs> ah i see
4268 2011-06-09 23:38:17 <jrmithdobbs> welp, good news: a) I think i've exhausted the possible keys generatable by the old broken debian openssl bug, b) noone has been dumb enough to run bitcoin linked against it.
4269 2011-06-09 23:38:59 <jrmithdobbs> these keys need to be blacklisted though
4270 2011-06-09 23:39:06 <xtalmath> ah this only works for continuous services, not general resources...
4271 2011-06-09 23:39:44 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: ah damnit
4272 2011-06-09 23:39:58 <sipa> are any of those keys used?
4273 2011-06-09 23:40:08 <jrmithdobbs> doesn't look like it
4274 2011-06-09 23:40:35 <sipa> good
4275 2011-06-09 23:40:49 <jrmithdobbs> ya that's why i started that with "good news" ;P
4276 2011-06-09 23:40:56 <HarryS> sipa: wait, if I use -nolisten, how am I supposed to check my balence
4277 2011-06-09 23:41:03 <HarryS> I'm using bitcoind headless by the way
4278 2011-06-09 23:41:49 <jgarzik> HarryS: -nolisten just says you are not listening for incoming P2P connections.  you can still dial out.
4279 2011-06-09 23:41:55 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: any other result would have started with "oh btw I'm really satoshi where'd the coins from genesis block go?!" ;P
4280 2011-06-09 23:42:14 <sipa> haha
4281 2011-06-09 23:42:36 <HarryS> I can't use ./bitcoind getinfo when I'm using -nolisten
4282 2011-06-09 23:42:39 <HarryS> so how then?
4283 2011-06-09 23:42:40 <jrmithdobbs> do y'all want to blacklist these? they really should be.
4284 2011-06-09 23:43:07 <sipa> HarryS: -nolisten has nothing to do with RPC
4285 2011-06-09 23:43:21 <sipa> it just means don't listen for P2P connections
4286 2011-06-09 23:44:02 <spq> it was the pid only which got into the randomness pool, right?
4287 2011-06-09 23:44:06 <minus> i noticed you cant bind the p2p stuff to an address
4288 2011-06-09 23:44:07 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
4289 2011-06-09 23:44:18 <jrmithdobbs> spq: ya
4290 2011-06-09 23:44:30 <spq> 16bits?
4291 2011-06-09 23:44:39 vorlov has joined
4292 2011-06-09 23:45:00 <jrmithdobbs> spq: I genned a total of 1577171 addresses and there was only 35701 unique ones so I'm thinking this should be the whole list
4293 2011-06-09 23:45:17 <HarryS> sipa: but that's wrong. try it yourself. unless I am doing it wrong somehow.
4294 2011-06-09 23:45:20 <HarryS> use the ./bitcoind help commands
4295 2011-06-09 23:45:24 <HarryS> says failed to connect to server
4296 2011-06-09 23:45:26 Astrohacker has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
4297 2011-06-09 23:45:34 <spq> hm, shouldnt it be 65535?
4298 2011-06-09 23:45:36 <HarryS> I might be pebcaking I guess
4299 2011-06-09 23:45:58 <jrmithdobbs> spq: seems fairly unlikely that i'd only have 35701 unique out of that many if there were more
4300 2011-06-09 23:46:29 <spq> really?
4301 2011-06-09 23:46:39 <jrmithdobbs> spq: also, default linux pid_max is 32768 so it seems a reasonable number
4302 2011-06-09 23:46:54 <spq> hm and pid 1 isnt possible normally
4303 2011-06-09 23:47:15 <jrmithdobbs> i genned 300 per pid starting from 20 going to ~5k
4304 2011-06-09 23:47:22 <jrmithdobbs> with that many collisions
4305 2011-06-09 23:48:21 <jrmithdobbs> but there's also def something weird going on with getnewaddress and friends because it took waaaaay too long to gen them considering i can gen ~10k in 1.5 minutes on the same host
4306 2011-06-09 23:48:34 <jrmithdobbs> using openssl
4307 2011-06-09 23:48:39 eternal1 has joined
4308 2011-06-09 23:49:17 Incitatus has joined
4309 2011-06-09 23:49:21 <achim> Is it unusal that the 1st confimration for a transaction last longer than 15 min?
4310 2011-06-09 23:49:30 <jrmithdobbs> not really
4311 2011-06-09 23:49:39 Incitatus has quit (Client Quit)
4312 2011-06-09 23:49:42 <sipa> not at all
4313 2011-06-09 23:49:42 <spq> you should have generated always the same address for each pid, or am i wrong?
4314 2011-06-09 23:49:45 WakiMiko_ has joined
4315 2011-06-09 23:49:56 <achim> oh ... I did until now only about 15 transactions and all very confirmated until 5-10 first time
4316 2011-06-09 23:50:11 <achim> 5-10 mins   thanks
4317 2011-06-09 23:50:17 <jrmithdobbs> spq: it uses a counter of sorts as well, it will *look* random at first
4318 2011-06-09 23:50:43 noagendamarket has joined
4319 2011-06-09 23:51:10 <achim> I hope it doesn't last half a day, then SEPA could be quicker ;-)
4320 2011-06-09 23:51:24 <jrmithdobbs> spq: so not every number generated is the same but if you do it over and over the whole list will stay the same
4321 2011-06-09 23:51:42 <jrmithdobbs> (if using same pid)
4322 2011-06-09 23:52:51 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4323 2011-06-09 23:53:52 xtalmath has left ()
4324 2011-06-09 23:54:32 Astrohacker has joined
4325 2011-06-09 23:54:50 <HarryS> I'll just use trickle then, as I guess bitcoin has no real bandwidth limiting..
4326 2011-06-09 23:56:11 <achim> seems I'm unlucky .. I want to wait only for the first confirmation , then start the follow-up transaction and finally can go asleep ;)
4327 2011-06-09 23:56:50 <D0han> HarryS: i had similar problem, limiting connections in config helped
4328 2011-06-09 23:56:55 <D0han> i limited it to 8
4329 2011-06-09 23:57:17 <achim> up to now I had never such problems .. always more than 100 connections
4330 2011-06-09 23:58:03 <D0han> my net was lagging because of bitcoin upload
4331 2011-06-09 23:58:21 <achim> btw: about which confif are you talking? @D0han
4332 2011-06-09 23:58:26 <HarryS> well all my upstream is being used onto one russian host, so even if I limit it down it won't do too much
4333 2011-06-09 23:58:48 <achim> my net seems fine ....
4334 2011-06-09 23:58:49 <D0han> achim: official bitcoin client
4335 2011-06-09 23:59:02 <achim> I use bitcoin v 0.3.20.2beta
4336 2011-06-09 23:59:20 <achim> Is this the official? :)
4337 2011-06-09 23:59:24 <D0han> bitcoin.conf in %appdata%\bitcoin
4338 2011-06-09 23:59:42 <achim> ah ... an external file
4339 2011-06-09 23:59:57 <sipa> achim: the latest is 0.3.22 beta