1 2011-06-15 00:01:24 Zefir has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
   2 2011-06-15 00:01:33 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
   3 2011-06-15 00:02:07 nower has quit (Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -)
   4 2011-06-15 00:02:30 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
   5 2011-06-15 00:02:54 jojamjimjob has quit (Quit: Page closed)
   6 2011-06-15 00:04:04 theorbtwo has joined
   7 2011-06-15 00:05:12 <ericmock> anyone compile wxwidgets on OS X 10.6?
   8 2011-06-15 00:06:18 <ericmock> following stuff here (http://wiki.wxwidgets.org/Development:_wxMac#Building_under_10.6_Snow_Leopard) isn't helping with:
   9 2011-06-15 00:06:33 Pinion has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  10 2011-06-15 00:06:40 <ericmock> checking for SDK directory /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.6.sdk... exists
  11 2011-06-15 00:06:40 <ericmock> checking if C compiler works with SDK/version options... configure: error: no.  Try a different SDK
  12 2011-06-15 00:07:11 <ericmock> for some reason still trying to configure with " -arch ppc -arch i386 -arch x86_64"
  13 2011-06-15 00:07:35 num1-mac is now known as num1
  14 2011-06-15 00:07:46 puddy has joined
  15 2011-06-15 00:09:57 llama has joined
  16 2011-06-15 00:09:58 llama has quit (Changing host)
  17 2011-06-15 00:09:58 llama has joined
  18 2011-06-15 00:10:57 puddy has left ()
  19 2011-06-15 00:11:41 Wuked has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  20 2011-06-15 00:12:47 backwardation25 has joined
  21 2011-06-15 00:14:44 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  22 2011-06-15 00:20:05 kermit has joined
  23 2011-06-15 00:22:09 kish has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  24 2011-06-15 00:22:27 insanehitz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  25 2011-06-15 00:22:30 kish has joined
  26 2011-06-15 00:22:34 insanehitz has joined
  27 2011-06-15 00:24:51 Leo_II has joined
  28 2011-06-15 00:24:57 mmoya has joined
  29 2011-06-15 00:25:29 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  30 2011-06-15 00:25:55 lumos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  31 2011-06-15 00:26:05 kermit has joined
  32 2011-06-15 00:28:29 <phantomcircuit> zomg
  33 2011-06-15 00:28:32 <phantomcircuit> retards
  34 2011-06-15 00:28:33 slush2 has joined
  35 2011-06-15 00:28:47 <phantomcircuit> people are screen scraping the britcoin orderbook instead of using the fucking api
  36 2011-06-15 00:29:24 <ericmock> ocr?
  37 2011-06-15 00:29:58 hachque has joined
  38 2011-06-15 00:30:01 yellowhat_ has joined
  39 2011-06-15 00:30:53 sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  40 2011-06-15 00:30:57 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: lol
  41 2011-06-15 00:31:12 <phantomcircuit> ericmock, google screen scape
  42 2011-06-15 00:31:25 slush1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  43 2011-06-15 00:31:35 <ericmock> well, at least they're using google's resources
  44 2011-06-15 00:31:59 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: no he was telling you to google what it is
  45 2011-06-15 00:32:01 <phantomcircuit> you best be trollin
  46 2011-06-15 00:32:04 yellowhat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  47 2011-06-15 00:32:10 yellowhat_ is now known as yellowhat
  48 2011-06-15 00:32:22 <phantomcircuit> im tempted to just ban curl/python user agents
  49 2011-06-15 00:32:31 <JFK911> do it
  50 2011-06-15 00:32:34 <directhex> wget!
  51 2011-06-15 00:32:35 <ericmock> ah...  anyway, I read it wrong...  thought he said "screen scrape"
  52 2011-06-15 00:32:37 <phantomcircuit>  - - [15/Jun/2011:01:31:23 +0100] "GET /?page=orderbook HTTP/1.1" 200 8446 "-" "Python-httplib2/$Rev$"
  53 2011-06-15 00:32:42 <phantomcircuit> lol @ $Rev$
  54 2011-06-15 00:33:06 <ericmock> oh, he did...
  55 2011-06-15 00:33:30 <phantomcircuit> ericmock, among the web community it means any robot that parses pages intended for people
  56 2011-06-15 00:33:45 <ericmock> "More modern screen scraping techniques include capturing the bitmap data from the screen and running it through an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_character_recognition engine"
  57 2011-06-15 00:34:02 <ericmock> ah, that's just 'scraping' to me
  58 2011-06-15 00:34:08 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, who is writing the wallet encryption?
  59 2011-06-15 00:34:16 <ericmock> been doing that for five years ;-)
  60 2011-06-15 00:34:27 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: bluematt
  61 2011-06-15 00:34:29 <ericmock> eh, shit, I'm getting old...  more like 8 years
  62 2011-06-15 00:34:40 <phantomcircuit> [15/Jun/2011:01:33:30 +0100] "GET /?page=orderbook HTTP/1.1" 200 23575 "-" "BlackBerry9300/5.0.0.794 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/123"
  63 2011-06-15 00:34:45 <phantomcircuit> lol crack berry
  64 2011-06-15 00:34:54 <phantomcircuit> ah
  65 2011-06-15 00:35:10 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, you there i would like to discuss your scratch off branch
  66 2011-06-15 00:35:33 <ericmock> phantomcircuit: so either your definitions is off or that's a serious misnomer...
  67 2011-06-15 00:35:55 <phantomcircuit> ericmock, it's a serious misnomer
  68 2011-06-15 00:36:12 <ericmock> ah, gotcha...  that happens way way too much
  69 2011-06-15 00:36:55  has joined
  70 2011-06-15 00:37:09 wood_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  71 2011-06-15 00:37:20  is now known as Netsniper|!~kvirc@adsl-76-252-15-13.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Guest50859
  72 2011-06-15 00:38:30 <ericmock> fortunately wikipedia isn't spreading this misnomer and have the definition correct (i.e. my way of thinking ;-) )
  73 2011-06-15 00:39:13 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  74 2011-06-15 00:40:26 hacktolive has joined
  75 2011-06-15 00:40:58 DrewSJ has quit (Quit: Easy as 3.14159265358979323846...)
  76 2011-06-15 00:41:13 lorin has joined
  77 2011-06-15 00:42:13 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: actually, phantomcircuit's use of the word predates the use defined on wikipedia and is usually what people mean when they say it.
  78 2011-06-15 00:42:22 <jrmithdobbs> s/word/phrase/
  79 2011-06-15 00:43:04 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  80 2011-06-15 00:43:06 <ericmock> unfortunately I probably predate you all...
  81 2011-06-15 00:43:21 red-dawn has left ()
  82 2011-06-15 00:43:28 <phantomcircuit> ericmock, lol
  83 2011-06-15 00:44:23 osmosis has joined
  84 2011-06-15 00:44:26 derpadurr has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  85 2011-06-15 00:44:45 wood_ has joined
  86 2011-06-15 00:45:05 <jrmithdobbs> love commits like this ;P
  87 2011-06-15 00:45:07 <jrmithdobbs> 221 +++++++++++++++++++++-------------------------------
  88 2011-06-15 00:45:38 Guest50859 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  89 2011-06-15 00:46:04 llama has quit (Quit: llama)
  90 2011-06-15 00:48:21 eureka^ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  91 2011-06-15 00:48:43 red_dawn_ has joined
  92 2011-06-15 00:48:44 AStove has quit ()
  93 2011-06-15 00:50:33 Xenland has joined
  94 2011-06-15 00:51:09 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  95 2011-06-15 00:51:39 Pinion has joined
  96 2011-06-15 00:52:22 mithridates has joined
  97 2011-06-15 00:53:04 zapnap has joined
  98 2011-06-15 00:54:33 <hacktolive> hello people, I found this text called "New Bitcoin: An improved Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" http://bit.ly/j1o510 It might help improve bitcoin (I'm not sure if the concerns there are valid, I'm just the messenger...)
  99 2011-06-15 00:55:40 <hacktolive> I think I messed the short link, sorry, here is the correct one: http://www.newbitcoin.org/documents/newbitcoin.pdf
 100 2011-06-15 00:55:50 grifter_ has joined
 101 2011-06-15 00:57:45 mmyjona has quit ()
 102 2011-06-15 00:58:08 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 103 2011-06-15 00:58:09 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
 104 2011-06-15 01:00:58 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: discuss away
 105 2011-06-15 01:01:35 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, why did you call the branch scratch offs, i dont get the use case
 106 2011-06-15 01:01:48 <ericmock> initial thought:  at least he wrote it in LaTeX
 107 2011-06-15 01:02:02 <phantomcircuit> hacktolive, was that really necessary
 108 2011-06-15 01:02:15 EPiSKiNG- has joined
 109 2011-06-15 01:03:03 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: you scratch off a physical card, get a number, type number into software, get bitcoins.
 110 2011-06-15 01:03:17 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: wider uses though, such as passworded bitcoins
 111 2011-06-15 01:03:50 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 112 2011-06-15 01:03:54 <Zarutian> jgarzik: a bit like webmoney.eu notes?
 113 2011-06-15 01:04:05 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, ok so it's convenience for scratch offs
 114 2011-06-15 01:04:13 zapnap has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 115 2011-06-15 01:04:14 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: ...hence the name :)
 116 2011-06-15 01:04:20 <phantomcircuit> i was thinking
 117 2011-06-15 01:04:24 <phantomcircuit> email+password
 118 2011-06-15 01:04:35 <phantomcircuit> email guarantees global uniqueness, password security
 119 2011-06-15 01:05:20 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: the interface is highly flexible, taking JSON metadata to configure how the "card" works
 120 2011-06-15 01:05:26 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: so that is possible within the interface
 121 2011-06-15 01:05:56 buttpwner has joined
 122 2011-06-15 01:05:58 <Zarutian> jgarzik: webmoney.eu notes are pair of two strings, and "serial" number of the note and a password that makes it possible to: change the password, split the note into smaller notes or merge with others to make bigger ones.
 123 2011-06-15 01:06:16 <Zarutian> sorry, mean that for phantomcircuit
 124 2011-06-15 01:06:30 <phantomcircuit> what
 125 2011-06-15 01:06:54 buttpwner has left ()
 126 2011-06-15 01:07:29 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 127 2011-06-15 01:07:49 dominiqu1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 128 2011-06-15 01:07:50 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: in bitcoins case, you could make a transaction which has this kind of pubKeyScript: hash of password if equal then ok
 129 2011-06-15 01:08:10 weinerk has joined
 130 2011-06-15 01:08:27 <hacktolive> phantomcircuit: It might be hard to believe, but I honestly mixed-up the link... Regarding the paper, I just wanted to give the devs a heads-up regarding the competition...
 131 2011-06-15 01:08:31 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: then you give whoever you are paying the transaction hash (to look it up in the blocks) and the password
 132 2011-06-15 01:08:31 weinerk has quit (Changing host)
 133 2011-06-15 01:08:31 weinerk has joined
 134 2011-06-15 01:08:44 <phantomcircuit> Zarutian, actually you cant do such a simple script in bitcoin, think about why
 135 2011-06-15 01:08:47 <phantomcircuit> (i had to)
 136 2011-06-15 01:09:03 <phantomcircuit> hacktolive, yeah i saw that, shouldn't be so quick to judge :P
 137 2011-06-15 01:09:05 <Zarutian> hacktolive: I am perusing that paper now.
 138 2011-06-15 01:09:32 d17v1Nmz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 139 2011-06-15 01:09:32 weinerk has left ()
 140 2011-06-15 01:09:33 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: due to recent restrictions coded into the bitcoin software?
 141 2011-06-15 01:09:52 <Zarutian> (the "official" bitcoin node software that is)
 142 2011-06-15 01:10:13 <phantomcircuit> no
 143 2011-06-15 01:10:16 thallium205 has joined
 144 2011-06-15 01:10:16 <phantomcircuit> for technical easons
 145 2011-06-15 01:10:26 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: I think there is a limit of five operations or so.
 146 2011-06-15 01:10:40 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: what kind of technical reasons?
 147 2011-06-15 01:11:28 <upb> would be interesting to know :)
 148 2011-06-15 01:11:40 AnAdorableNick has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number)
 149 2011-06-15 01:11:45 <upb> other than the blocked instructions & format conformance checks imposed
 150 2011-06-15 01:11:58 AB3LS is now known as AB3Ham
 151 2011-06-15 01:12:00 AnAdorableNick has joined
 152 2011-06-15 01:12:31 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
 153 2011-06-15 01:13:13 <phantomcircuit> Zarutian, if you use a simple password check anybody in between you and the ultimate miner can spend your coins
 154 2011-06-15 01:13:18 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: sorry the script is a bit too simplistic, it would be: hash top of stack item, push literal value (the expected hash), compare if equal then return transaction_ok else return transaction_not_ok
 155 2011-06-15 01:13:53 <upb> the password would have to be changed on each transaction obviously
 156 2011-06-15 01:14:07 <phantomcircuit> hacktolive, that's enough to tell me this guy has no idea but can use latex very nicely "But in addition to transactions, blocks contain the running balance of each account (or address)."
 157 2011-06-15 01:14:08 <Zarutian> well it is a single use thing mostly
 158 2011-06-15 01:14:36 <phantomcircuit> Zarutian, yes that script isn't secure, you need to incorporate a hash of the output, which isn't currently possible
 159 2011-06-15 01:14:56 tandy80_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 160 2011-06-15 01:15:56 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: I am sorry, what output? the stuff left by sigScript on the stack for the pubKeyScript to find?
 161 2011-06-15 01:16:04 <upb> if you incorporate a nonce
 162 2011-06-15 01:16:18 <Zarutian> upb: a dash of "salt", eh?
 163 2011-06-15 01:16:24 <mtrlt> "No longer the longest chain of
 164 2011-06-15 01:16:29 <upb> erm
 165 2011-06-15 01:16:30 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: because OP_SIGCHECK is limited to one per script
 166 2011-06-15 01:16:30 <mtrlt> blocks is valid, but the chain with the highest total difficulty"
 167 2011-06-15 01:16:31 <phantomcircuit> Zarutian, lets say you use that script, now i copy your script and change the output of the transaction, your coins are mine
 168 2011-06-15 01:16:36 <mtrlt> he writes that too... doesn't really make sense
 169 2011-06-15 01:16:42 <mtrlt> bitcoin already does that.
 170 2011-06-15 01:16:48 <hacktolive> phantomcircuit: I indeed suspected the paper was bit "amateur"... but sometimes even silly and crazy ideas can bring better ones...
 171 2011-06-15 01:16:50 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: hmm.. I see you point
 172 2011-06-15 01:17:26 <phantomcircuit> hacktolive, it's worse than amateur, it's down right malicious "Transactions don’t refer to former transactions, but to payer account numbers as source of the money transfer."
 173 2011-06-15 01:17:30 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: as anyone who see the txn spending the bitcoin with the simple hashed password check will see the password
 174 2011-06-15 01:17:42 <phantomcircuit> Zarutian, exactly
 175 2011-06-15 01:17:49 EPiSKiNG- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 176 2011-06-15 01:17:50 <mtrlt> phantomcircuit: he's describing the new system there
 177 2011-06-15 01:17:55 <jrmithdobbs> what paper?
 178 2011-06-15 01:18:07 <mtrlt> phantomcircuit: not the current bitcoin system
 179 2011-06-15 01:18:11 <jrmithdobbs> because that sounds like a breaking of bitcoin
 180 2011-06-15 01:18:22 <jrmithdobbs> the whole point of the scripts is that you can xfer coins in arbitrary ways
 181 2011-06-15 01:18:33 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 182 2011-06-15 01:18:36 <phantomcircuit> mtrlt, yes im aware, what he is describing is a system which has a ton of problems
 183 2011-06-15 01:18:43 <jrmithdobbs> so making it track to a pubkey breaks the whole point
 184 2011-06-15 01:18:46 <mtrlt> phantomcircuit: agreed. just checking :p
 185 2011-06-15 01:19:01 <phantomcircuit> mtrlt, also his system is inherently unscalable
 186 2011-06-15 01:19:03 <mtrlt> i mean he describes a system where people could mine blocks of any difficulty, and then...
 187 2011-06-15 01:19:14 <phantomcircuit> "Therefore, all transactions will be in the form ’one payer to many payees’."
 188 2011-06-15 01:19:21 <mtrlt> most of those blocks are rejected?
 189 2011-06-15 01:19:25 <phantomcircuit> thus the blocks will grow unbounded
 190 2011-06-15 01:19:28 <mtrlt> yea, that too raised my eyebrow
 191 2011-06-15 01:19:29 combo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 192 2011-06-15 01:19:51 <phantomcircuit> whoever wrote this was trying but clearly isn't capable of actually doing anything
 193 2011-06-15 01:20:01 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: hmm.. put how about adding a literal containing AES encrypted pubkey of the transfering address? (can be added into an txn with the big literal op, followed by drop op)
 194 2011-06-15 01:20:27 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: Steve1024's paper?
 195 2011-06-15 01:20:34 octarine has joined
 196 2011-06-15 01:20:49 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, http://www.newbitcoin.org
 197 2011-06-15 01:20:59 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: yeah, that's Steve1024
 198 2011-06-15 01:21:06 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: paper was thoroughly trashed on the forums
 199 2011-06-15 01:21:07 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: so the password is the secret key to decrypt the encrypted pubkey.
 200 2011-06-15 01:21:13 <phantomcircuit> he correctly identified issues
 201 2011-06-15 01:21:20 <phantomcircuit> but his proposed solutions are absurd
 202 2011-06-15 01:21:33 <phantomcircuit> Zarutian, same problem lol
 203 2011-06-15 01:21:46 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: somewhat... he doesn't really understand fees, or the mining process, or a dozen other details
 204 2011-06-15 01:21:59 ArtForz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 205 2011-06-15 01:22:00 <jrmithdobbs> i take it I can summarily dismiss this paper without even reading it then?
 206 2011-06-15 01:22:00 EPiSKiNG- has joined
 207 2011-06-15 01:22:07 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, yes
 208 2011-06-15 01:22:07 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: yes
 209 2011-06-15 01:22:10 <jrmithdobbs> because it's a lot of words
 210 2011-06-15 01:22:12 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: why? Anyone who has the txn hash and the password can retrive the pubkey without revealing the password to the bitcoin network
 211 2011-06-15 01:22:14 johnnympereira5 has joined
 212 2011-06-15 01:22:18 <jrmithdobbs> alright closed ;P
 213 2011-06-15 01:22:26 <phantomcircuit> Zarutian, because you need the privkey?
 214 2011-06-15 01:22:28 <phantomcircuit> lol
 215 2011-06-15 01:22:46 <phantomcircuit> Zarutian, also that would better be stored outside of the block chain
 216 2011-06-15 01:22:49 <phantomcircuit> save space
 217 2011-06-15 01:22:49 <Zarutian> phandomcircuit: sorry! meant s/pubkey/privkey/ !
 218 2011-06-15 01:22:56 <Zarutian> why didnt I spot this earlier
 219 2011-06-15 01:23:29 <Zarutian> could be saved in the blockcain, would just cost extra in fees
 220 2011-06-15 01:23:57 <jgarzik> Zarutian: my scratch-off patch gives you just that:  anyone who has the txid and password can spend the TX
 221 2011-06-15 01:24:08 <jgarzik> Zarutian: no need for any bitcoin changes
 222 2011-06-15 01:24:23 <jrmithdobbs> really should have guessed it could be summarily dismissed when just about all the references at the bottom were bitcoin wiki/forum links ;P
 223 2011-06-15 01:24:31 <Zarutian> jgarzik: but does it fall in the same pit as phantomcircuit outlined for me earlier?
 224 2011-06-15 01:24:50 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: no
 225 2011-06-15 01:24:58 <mtrlt> jrmithdobbs: just read it :P
 226 2011-06-15 01:25:08 <jrmithdobbs> mtrlt: nah got other things to do
 227 2011-06-15 01:26:26 <mtrlt> but wtf. that system either implies an infinitely branching block chain or that most blocks are rejected always.
 228 2011-06-15 01:26:51 <Zarutian> mtrlt: in that newbitcoin paper?
 229 2011-06-15 01:26:57 <mtrlt> yea
 230 2011-06-15 01:26:58 <mtrlt> i think
 231 2011-06-15 01:28:27 <Zarutian> phantomcircuit: and allowing to store around 1KiB of stuff in txns (and paying a big fee for the priviledge) will enable such and other applications.
 232 2011-06-15 01:28:34 traviscj has joined
 233 2011-06-15 01:28:50 Neskia has joined
 234 2011-06-15 01:28:59 Nesetalis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 235 2011-06-15 01:29:22 <mtrlt> i mean, suppose someone makes 500 diff 1 blocks on top of block X, then someone makes a diff 1000 block on top of block X. the earlier 500 blocks are now invalid.
 236 2011-06-15 01:29:34 <mtrlt> sux
 237 2011-06-15 01:30:01 <jgarzik> Zarutian: no, that creates a huge mess
 238 2011-06-15 01:30:25 <jgarzik> Zarutian: if you want to pay for cloud storage, bitcoin is not your medium
 239 2011-06-15 01:32:08 kermit has joined
 240 2011-06-15 01:32:14 <Zarutian> jgarzik: not looking for cloud storage, looking for using bitcoin blockchain for datestamping and other such things. (Though namecoin might be better suitable for it)
 241 2011-06-15 01:33:31 <Zarutian> heck even 32 bytes would be enough.
 242 2011-06-15 01:33:32 <phantomcircuit> Zarutian, seems kind of stupid
 243 2011-06-15 01:35:02 grifter_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 244 2011-06-15 01:37:00 vigilyn has joined
 245 2011-06-15 01:37:13 Leo_II has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 246 2011-06-15 01:40:08 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 247 2011-06-15 01:40:40 <upb> no it is actually perfect for publishing a timestamping authorities hashes :P
 248 2011-06-15 01:41:36 <anarchyx> ;;bc,stats
 249 2011-06-15 01:41:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 130887 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 152 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 15 hours, 22 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 859426.17933052
 250 2011-06-15 01:42:43 octarine has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 251 2011-06-15 01:43:36 octarine has joined
 252 2011-06-15 01:43:46 <Zarutian> the newbitcoin paper has a few good points on the issues bitcoin faces but the solution the author(s) proposes doesnt add up.
 253 2011-06-15 01:43:50 EPiSKiNG- is now known as EPiSKiNG
 254 2011-06-15 01:44:03 EPiSKiNG is now known as EPiSKiNG-
 255 2011-06-15 01:44:11 <mtrlt> yep
 256 2011-06-15 01:46:51 kluge has joined
 257 2011-06-15 01:46:57 <Zarutian> re the scalability proplem, only miners need to learn of new transactions other nodes learn of new transaction through blocks published by the miners.
 258 2011-06-15 01:47:48 <Zarutian> (a transaction isnt deemed confirmed until a miner has incorporated into a block, anyway)
 259 2011-06-15 01:48:10 <Zarutian> s/incorporated/incorporated it/
 260 2011-06-15 01:48:32 ZOP has joined
 261 2011-06-15 01:50:15 octarine has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 262 2011-06-15 01:52:05 dissipate has joined
 263 2011-06-15 01:52:06 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 264 2011-06-15 01:52:08 octarine has joined
 265 2011-06-15 01:52:30 Leo_II has joined
 266 2011-06-15 01:52:55 RAM2012 has joined
 267 2011-06-15 01:53:56 nhodges has joined
 268 2011-06-15 01:55:19 earthmeLon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 269 2011-06-15 01:57:15 <Zarutian> there also the pruning of space by only keeping track of txn with unspent outputs, say, at least 24 blocks deep. (That is, txns with spent outputs in the last 24 blocks arent pruned out yet)
 270 2011-06-15 01:58:01 <Zarutian> by most bitcoin nodes.
 271 2011-06-15 02:00:23 <Zarutian> a few could keep blocks permantly and offer a service to retrive and give back blocks or txns given the hash of foresaid. (For a small fee of course)
 272 2011-06-15 02:00:28 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 273 2011-06-15 02:01:22 muffinz has joined
 274 2011-06-15 02:01:43 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 275 2011-06-15 02:01:58 <muffinz> ;;bc,stats
 276 2011-06-15 02:02:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 130890 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 149 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 15 hours, 6 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 858633.54454489
 277 2011-06-15 02:02:00 <Zarutian> or instead of few, all nodes can keep few blocks DistributedHashTable style (like kadmlia, pastry and other such p2p protocols do it)
 278 2011-06-15 02:02:29 AnAdorableNick has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 279 2011-06-15 02:03:14 <Zarutian> in the last case, when a miner has mined a block it lets other miners know plus the bitcoin nodes that host that part of the DHT
 280 2011-06-15 02:03:41 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 281 2011-06-15 02:03:48 lorin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 282 2011-06-15 02:04:32 <Zarutian> common, gimme some critism on these proposals.
 283 2011-06-15 02:05:14 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 284 2011-06-15 02:07:13 Blitzboom_ has joined
 285 2011-06-15 02:07:33 br00t has joined
 286 2011-06-15 02:07:44 <lfm> Zarutian: they suck
 287 2011-06-15 02:08:35 <ericmock> lfm:  you aren't common ;-)
 288 2011-06-15 02:08:50 <lfm> well he asked
 289 2011-06-15 02:09:24 <ericmock> and the joke zooms off into space...
 290 2011-06-15 02:09:32 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 291 2011-06-15 02:10:31 <lfm> Zarutian: there has been lots of discusion how exactly to implement a pruned block chain. The main stumbling point is as you may have figgured how old client will start up without seeing the whole block chain to verify it.
 292 2011-06-15 02:10:35 <Zarutian> lfm: sure but in which ways and can you (all) improve upon them or post some better ideas.
 293 2011-06-15 02:11:42 <lfm> Zarutian: my position has been mostly we dont need to prune yet and maybe never
 294 2011-06-15 02:11:54 hacktolive has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 295 2011-06-15 02:12:19 sabalaba has joined
 296 2011-06-15 02:12:27 <Zarutian> lfm: old client can ask the hash of the newest block, as an archiver for that block and so on recursively until it comes across a hash of a block it knows.
 297 2011-06-15 02:13:22 <lfm> Zarutian: but if it is only connected to new nodes they wont have all those block any more
 298 2011-06-15 02:13:47 <Zarutian> lfm: s/as an/ask an/
 299 2011-06-15 02:13:49 <lfm> or at least wont have all the txn for them
 300 2011-06-15 02:15:05 <Zarutian> I am not talking about that all nodes should prune but most. The others can archive all the blocks.
 301 2011-06-15 02:15:15 sacarlson has joined
 302 2011-06-15 02:15:17 <lfm> do you have separate ports and connections or just flags for new type nodes so a node trying to set up a full dblock chain knows who to ask
 303 2011-06-15 02:15:50 <Zarutian> thinking about just adding flags
 304 2011-06-15 02:16:09 <lfm> Zarutian: but when a node just starts bitcoin it connects to some random nodes, maybe none of em are "acrhivers"?
 305 2011-06-15 02:16:13 <Zarutian> the portspace is crowded as it is.
 306 2011-06-15 02:16:43 <Zarutian> some of them knows one or a node that knows one.
 307 2011-06-15 02:16:58 AB3Ham has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 308 2011-06-15 02:17:02 <ericmock> seed boxes
 309 2011-06-15 02:17:22 RAM2012 has joined
 310 2011-06-15 02:17:34 <lfm> ok so you are modifying the protocol but an old client doesnt know a new protocol
 311 2011-06-15 02:17:35 <Zarutian> but I am frankly more intrested in the DHT solution
 312 2011-06-15 02:17:54 <Zarutian> lfm: sucks as the protocol will invariably change.
 313 2011-06-15 02:18:12 <lfm> doesnt need to, works now, should keep working
 314 2011-06-15 02:18:28 <Zarutian> "everything flows" said some ancient king
 315 2011-06-15 02:18:39 <lfm> make it upward compatible if you need to change it
 316 2011-06-15 02:19:25 <Zarutian> hmm... an archiver would work as current bitcoin nodes work today
 317 2011-06-15 02:19:28 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 318 2011-06-15 02:19:36 [7] has joined
 319 2011-06-15 02:19:52 Geebus_ has joined
 320 2011-06-15 02:20:08 <lfm> Zarutian: remember no one is king here. you have to c0onvince EVRYONE to change if you want to make change like that and you just as likely to make splits as change at some point
 321 2011-06-15 02:20:36 <Zarutian> the new pruning nodes would say that they prune
 322 2011-06-15 02:21:01 muffinz has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 323 2011-06-15 02:21:11 <lfm> sounds like an old client shouldnt really connect to your new one at all to me
 324 2011-06-15 02:21:39 <Zarutian> lfm: the only people, now mind you, I need to convince are the official bitcoin node software developers. (The ones that write the bitcoin node software aviable at bitcoin.org)
 325 2011-06-15 02:21:49 AB3LS has joined
 326 2011-06-15 02:21:59 <lfm> Zarutian: their is nothing in the old protocol to say "I have pruned"
 327 2011-06-15 02:22:30 <lfm> Zarutian: nope, you need to convince the miners to run new software
 328 2011-06-15 02:22:44 AB3LS has quit (Client Quit)
 329 2011-06-15 02:23:16 AB3Ham has joined
 330 2011-06-15 02:23:19 <Zarutian> lfm: there is however the option to ignore "I heard about new transaction <hash of txn>" and "I heard about new block <hash of block>"
 331 2011-06-15 02:23:48 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
 332 2011-06-15 02:23:59 <Zarutian> which is part of the gossiping done by current bitcoin nodes iirc.
 333 2011-06-15 02:24:34 <lfm> if you ignore those you cant stay up to date. you mean not advertize those
 334 2011-06-15 02:24:57 graingert has joined
 335 2011-06-15 02:24:59 <Zarutian> yes that would be better
 336 2011-06-15 02:25:14 <ZOP> Zarutian: actually, there's at least one other client implementation i'm aware of.  and i'm not allt hat well informed.
 337 2011-06-15 02:25:26 <graingert> ZOP: the java one?
 338 2011-06-15 02:25:38 <ZOP> graingert: oh, two then :)
 339 2011-06-15 02:25:54 <slush2> hello, I have many network interfaces on computer. How to tell to bitcoin, which want to use for 8333?
 340 2011-06-15 02:26:00 <lfm> there are some minor forks of the standard client
 341 2011-06-15 02:26:01 <Zarutian> ZOP: I am curious to hear about that client.
 342 2011-06-15 02:26:07 <graingert> ZOP: what is the other one?
 343 2011-06-15 02:26:27 <slush2> jgarzik: ^ ?
 344 2011-06-15 02:26:31 <ZOP> graingert: luke-jr and...whatishis face gajinx(?) Spesmilo
 345 2011-06-15 02:26:48 <ZOP> http://gitorious.org/bitcoin/spesmilo\
 346 2011-06-15 02:26:53 earthmeLon has joined
 347 2011-06-15 02:26:54 earthmeLon has quit (Changing host)
 348 2011-06-15 02:26:54 earthmeLon has joined
 349 2011-06-15 02:26:55 <ZOP> woops stray \ there
 350 2011-06-15 02:27:09 <lfm> you mean the gui front end that still runs bitcoind in background?
 351 2011-06-15 02:27:32 <ZOP> i thought they forked bitcoind though
 352 2011-06-15 02:27:34 <jgarzik> slush2: that is a linux question, not a bitcoin question
 353 2011-06-15 02:27:36 <ZOP> not sure truth be told.
 354 2011-06-15 02:27:42 <Zarutian> well at least, for those who dont want to spend much diskspace on keeping the whole blockchain, there is the DHT option.
 355 2011-06-15 02:28:12 <upb> if the client doesnt support binding to an ip you cant do it
 356 2011-06-15 02:28:39 <lfm> theoretical as far as I know. I guess it would be a protocol change too
 357 2011-06-15 02:28:56 <ZOP> Yeah I think the client is either 127.0.0.1 or 0.0.0.0, no way to tell it any different.
 358 2011-06-15 02:29:02 <graingert> Zarutian: that's fairly cool, what's that?
 359 2011-06-15 02:29:54 <Zarutian> graingert: Distributed HashTable, kadmlia and choord are the two protocols that implement such that come to mind
 360 2011-06-15 02:30:06 [DusT] has joined
 361 2011-06-15 02:30:16 <slush2> jgarzik: well, it is pretty usual to have binding configuration directly in application, but well, I'll try to setup it somehow
 362 2011-06-15 02:30:48 <slush2> jgarzik: I care only about outgoing connections, incoming is clear
 363 2011-06-15 02:30:55 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 364 2011-06-15 02:30:58 <Zarutian> graingert: afaik the bitcoin node software doesnt care where you store its block chain and I think DHT is perfect match for this kind of thing.
 365 2011-06-15 02:31:25 <genewitch> Can you point a pool at another pool?
 366 2011-06-15 02:31:50 <lfm> genewitch: theoreticly you could
 367 2011-06-15 02:31:54 <doublec> genewitch: yes
 368 2011-06-15 02:31:59 <doublec> genewitch: there are 'metapools' around
 369 2011-06-15 02:32:10 <genewitch> hm
 370 2011-06-15 02:32:13 <doublec> genewitch: that send on to another pool
 371 2011-06-15 02:32:25 <genewitch> yeah, and one bitcoind gets everything
 372 2011-06-15 02:32:54 <jgarzik> slush2: outgoing is OS, as I just mentioned
 373 2011-06-15 02:33:01 <Zarutian> lfm: you are starting to remind me of a physics theorist that was so theoritical that it affected experiments, his name escapes me at the moment
 374 2011-06-15 02:33:03 <slush2> ok
 375 2011-06-15 02:33:04 <jgarzik> slush2: your OS decides which interface for outgoing packets
 376 2011-06-15 02:33:37 <genewitch> Zarutian: your explaination only works in theory
 377 2011-06-15 02:33:45 <graingert> jgarzik: I believe you  can choose that
 378 2011-06-15 02:34:06 <Zarutian> graingert: which can be run orthogonally to bitcoin.
 379 2011-06-15 02:34:27 <Zarutian> genewitch: which one?
 380 2011-06-15 02:36:01 karnac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 381 2011-06-15 02:36:30 karnac has joined
 382 2011-06-15 02:37:28 karnac_ has joined
 383 2011-06-15 02:37:46 xertrov has joined
 384 2011-06-15 02:38:47 LightRider is now known as afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|LightRider
 385 2011-06-15 02:39:18 _Netsniper_ has joined
 386 2011-06-15 02:39:38 eoss has joined
 387 2011-06-15 02:40:18 Geebus_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 388 2011-06-15 02:40:32 dominiqu1 has joined
 389 2011-06-15 02:40:59 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 390 2011-06-15 02:41:41 BladeMcCool has joined
 391 2011-06-15 02:42:53 <BladeMcCool> i am curious about the block chain, solving the latest block, and new transactions. if new transactions are constantly being added into the block that needs to be solved, doesnt that make finding the winning nonce a moving target ? or am i missing something
 392 2011-06-15 02:43:41 <mtrlt> yea the block header constantly changes.
 393 2011-06-15 02:43:41 [DusT] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 394 2011-06-15 02:43:53 <mtrlt> the block.
 395 2011-06-15 02:43:56 <mtrlt> changes.
 396 2011-06-15 02:44:14 <mtrlt> it doesn't matter because mining is a random search anyway :p
 397 2011-06-15 02:44:27 <BladeMcCool> ok
 398 2011-06-15 02:44:30 <BladeMcCool> ty for info
 399 2011-06-15 02:46:36 eureka^ has joined
 400 2011-06-15 02:49:41 <MC1984> @sweis
 401 2011-06-15 02:49:41 <MC1984> @benadida I wouldn't be
 402 2011-06-15 02:49:41 <MC1984> surprised if it was a remote exploit in the Bitcoin software itself. It isn't defensively programmed...
 403 2011-06-15 02:49:46 <MC1984> jacob again lol
 404 2011-06-15 02:51:10 _Netsniper_ is now known as Netsniper
 405 2011-06-15 02:51:40 Netsniper is now known as Guest75199
 406 2011-06-15 02:56:43 sneak has joined
 407 2011-06-15 02:56:43 sneak has quit (Changing host)
 408 2011-06-15 02:56:43 sneak has joined
 409 2011-06-15 02:58:54 <genewitch> ;;bc,stats
 410 2011-06-15 02:58:56 <gribble> Current Blocks: 130900 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 139 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 13 hours, 54 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 859399.30916321
 411 2011-06-15 02:59:07 <genewitch> oh jeez
 412 2011-06-15 02:59:16 <genewitch> 13 hours till the price goes back up to $30
 413 2011-06-15 02:59:20 <genewitch> buy your shares folks
 414 2011-06-15 03:00:29 AnotherBrian has joined
 415 2011-06-15 03:00:31 freebrew has joined
 416 2011-06-15 03:01:25 <AnotherBrian> hi everyone
 417 2011-06-15 03:01:49 [DusT] has joined
 418 2011-06-15 03:01:49 <dissipate> hi
 419 2011-06-15 03:01:59 <thallium205> hi
 420 2011-06-15 03:02:11 <dissipate> genewitch, for what reason?
 421 2011-06-15 03:02:56 coniiion has joined
 422 2011-06-15 03:03:04 <thallium205> im pretty sure there is no way to predict the perceived value of thousands of users 13 hours from now given difficulty stats
 423 2011-06-15 03:03:29 <phantomcircuit> wat
 424 2011-06-15 03:03:53 <thallium205> the perceived value btc will have 13 hours from now to lots of people*
 425 2011-06-15 03:04:05 <cacheson> thallium205: but what about the power of wishful thinking?  ;)
 426 2011-06-15 03:04:11 <thallium205> :P
 427 2011-06-15 03:04:43 <phantomcircuit> thallium205, replace btc with anything else
 428 2011-06-15 03:05:54 <dissipate> sounds like a pump and dump might be in the pipeline
 429 2011-06-15 03:05:58 <dissipate> brace for more mania
 430 2011-06-15 03:07:34 theymos has joined
 431 2011-06-15 03:09:10 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
 432 2011-06-15 03:09:17 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
 433 2011-06-15 03:09:17 Blitzboom has joined
 434 2011-06-15 03:09:33 [DusT] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 435 2011-06-15 03:09:46 <theymos> Does anyone know how I would check to see if the forum's server is slow because of a "bad" network? CPU/memory/IO seems fine, so maybe that's the cause.
 436 2011-06-15 03:11:30 <genewitch> theymos: pingplotter from multiple locations
 437 2011-06-15 03:11:43 <genewitch> theymos: i can provide Los Angeles, CA and Virginia
 438 2011-06-15 03:11:46 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 439 2011-06-15 03:11:50 <theymos> Pings seem to be fine.
 440 2011-06-15 03:12:06 <genewitch> well that would tell you network dropouts and stuff
 441 2011-06-15 03:12:16 <genewitch> theymos: what about caching?
 442 2011-06-15 03:12:45 <genewitch> or multiple servers with something like HAproxy
 443 2011-06-15 03:12:45 <theymos> It's just a slow when serving static files, so that wouldn't help in this case.
 444 2011-06-15 03:12:53 <theymos> just as slow*
 445 2011-06-15 03:12:58 osmosis has joined
 446 2011-06-15 03:13:22 <genewitch> theymos: and you're not saturating the connection?
 447 2011-06-15 03:14:03 <theymos> I don't know. That's what I'm trying to find out. I don't know how to measure that.
 448 2011-06-15 03:15:00 hereforfun has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 449 2011-06-15 03:15:33 red_dawn_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 450 2011-06-15 03:16:04 cryptocnt has joined
 451 2011-06-15 03:16:06 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.)
 452 2011-06-15 03:16:59 kish has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 453 2011-06-15 03:17:40 <genewitch> theymos: what are you hosting it on?
 454 2011-06-15 03:17:49 <genewitch> theymos: you can PM me if you're concerned about security
 455 2011-06-15 03:18:17 <theymos> I believe it is a VPS. I don't know the details.
 456 2011-06-15 03:19:42 kish has joined
 457 2011-06-15 03:19:53 <mrb_> theymos: random disk I/O bottleneck maybe?
 458 2011-06-15 03:19:58 <mrb_> check the 'wa' time in vmstat
 459 2011-06-15 03:20:08 <genewitch> theymos: those sort of suck for high traffic sites, but you should still have a SLA that tells you the bandwidth you have access to, and if you can log in to a shell you can run ntop or other utils to see network utilization
 460 2011-06-15 03:20:22 <mrb_> how did you check "IO"?
 461 2011-06-15 03:20:26 <CIA-90> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r48ead4a6a233 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/viewratingdetail.php: OTCWebsite: missed an htmlentities. http://tinyurl.com/3qlqden
 462 2011-06-15 03:20:27 <CIA-90> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * ra53ee1926ba2 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/viewgpg.php: OTCWebsite: missed htmlentities... http://tinyurl.com/3vu3asl
 463 2011-06-15 03:20:28 <theymos> mrb_: It's usually less than 5.
 464 2011-06-15 03:20:44 <theymos> I checked the wait time percentage in top.
 465 2011-06-15 03:20:46 <mrb_> try iostat -x 1 and look at %util
 466 2011-06-15 03:21:53 <theymos> Usually less than 15. Often 0.
 467 2011-06-15 03:22:13 Twoheaded has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 468 2011-06-15 03:22:46 <mrb_> hmm. at the same time the forum is not super slow at this moment. so too late to diagnose...
 469 2011-06-15 03:23:00 espinet has joined
 470 2011-06-15 03:23:17 <mrb_> I'd leave iostat -x 5 running in a terminal for a while, and come back to it later
 471 2011-06-15 03:23:38 <theymos> I looked at iostat when it was extremely slow, and the result was the same.
 472 2011-06-15 03:23:54 <mrb_> ah.
 473 2011-06-15 03:24:35 <genewitch> it feels like network, theymos
 474 2011-06-15 03:24:59 <genewitch> i can trace the connection, let me grab a utility
 475 2011-06-15 03:25:36 <mrb_> then it's either network contention. or some software lock contention in the php/web stack
 476 2011-06-15 03:25:47 <mrb_> or mysql stack
 477 2011-06-15 03:25:56 <mrb_> or whatever else the server runs
 478 2011-06-15 03:25:59 <genewitch> sql has a health check, right?
 479 2011-06-15 03:26:06 <genewitch> status thing
 480 2011-06-15 03:27:51 Twoheaded has joined
 481 2011-06-15 03:28:51 [DusT] has joined
 482 2011-06-15 03:29:06 <jgarzik> theymos: what's the status on moving the forums to another domain?
 483 2011-06-15 03:29:28 Cusipzzz has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
 484 2011-06-15 03:29:42 <theymos> I don't like the idea, so I'm not going to do it. Sirius can do it if he wants.
 485 2011-06-15 03:31:59 <jgarzik> rather unilateral, for a decentralized project
 486 2011-06-15 03:32:14 <genewitch> hey someone holler at me if the forums get slow again i have everything set up to see where it's slow
 487 2011-06-15 03:32:28 <jgarzik> particularly when so many are in favor of it
 488 2011-06-15 03:32:52 <theymos> genewitch: OK, I'll tell you. It happens pretty often, so maybe it won't be too long.
 489 2011-06-15 03:33:18 <genewitch> it hauls ass on links, for the record
 490 2011-06-15 03:34:01 <genewitch> jgarzik: decentralized web server?
 491 2011-06-15 03:35:06 Guest75199 is now known as Netsniper
 492 2011-06-15 03:35:29 <jgarzik> genewitch: no, pretty much the entire dev team, major pool operators, major exchange ops, and lots of users think the forums have become a ghetto, and are becoming an embarrassment to the bitcoin project
 493 2011-06-15 03:35:44 <jgarzik> one person disagrees
 494 2011-06-15 03:35:49 sgstair has quit (Quit: .•«UPP»•.)
 495 2011-06-15 03:35:55 <genewitch> jgarzik: ask moot to make a /bc/ topic
 496 2011-06-15 03:36:02 <jgarzik> rofl
 497 2011-06-15 03:36:22 <genewitch> i only see the dev forums and the pool forums sometimes, so i don't see the ghetto.
 498 2011-06-15 03:37:09 <genewitch> jgarzik: so the dev team and pool operators want a seperate more professional forum?
 499 2011-06-15 03:37:11 osmosis_ has joined
 500 2011-06-15 03:37:24 osmosis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 501 2011-06-15 03:37:41 <jgarzik> genewitch: a more professional forum, yes, but more importantly stop presenting the current forum as "The Official Bitcoin Project Forum"
 502 2011-06-15 03:37:51 lessPlastic has joined
 503 2011-06-15 03:38:04 <jgarzik> which it's not, with so many major peeps abandoning it
 504 2011-06-15 03:38:14 <theymos> I'm in support of not presenting it as the official forum. I just don't want to move it from bitcoin.org.
 505 2011-06-15 03:38:29 <jgarzik> theymos: anything on bitcoin.org is clearly official
 506 2011-06-15 03:38:49 <theymos> Let's change that perception.
 507 2011-06-15 03:39:03 <genewitch> jgarzik: you want the "good" forums on forum.bitcoin.org and the current forums on a different domain?
 508 2011-06-15 03:39:10 <jgarzik> theymos: show me _one_ other person who actually thinks that is possible.  just one.
 509 2011-06-15 03:39:26 <theymos> I'm sure I could find someone if I asked around.
 510 2011-06-15 03:39:42 <jgarzik> bitcoin.org was started by satoshi, and it's all over the print media, online media, search engines and ... duh .. it matches the project's name.
 511 2011-06-15 03:39:45 <genewitch> does that mean like drop database and start over with forum.bitcoin.org?
 512 2011-06-15 03:39:50 <jgarzik> nobody thinks that is realistic
 513 2011-06-15 03:39:53 <jgarzik> genewitch: no!
 514 2011-06-15 03:39:55 <theymos> The weusecoins guy reacted positively to my idea.
 515 2011-06-15 03:39:58 <cacheson> theymos: people are naturally going to assume that subdomains of bitcoin are official, there's nothing you can really do about that
 516 2011-06-15 03:40:09 <cacheson> er, subdomains of bitcoin.org
 517 2011-06-15 03:40:21 <CIA-90> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r4f18b1464c3e supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/ (vieworder.php vieworderbook.php): OTCWebsite: more missed htmlentities http://tinyurl.com/6kmav32
 518 2011-06-15 03:40:23 <CIA-90> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * rfeaf80c10d55 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/vieworderbook.php: OTCWebsite: typo fix http://tinyurl.com/675n4nq
 519 2011-06-15 03:40:24 <CIA-90> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r01bca550cf0c supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/vieworderbook.php: OTCWebsite: fix bad typo fix. that's what i get for pushing out without testing. http://tinyurl.com/6yg8c7c
 520 2011-06-15 03:40:27 <jgarzik> genewitch: no one is proposing deleting or turning off anything
 521 2011-06-15 03:40:31 <jgarzik> genewitch: just moving away from *.bitcoin.org
 522 2011-06-15 03:40:36 <theymos> Not very "decentralized" of you to demand that any website be "official" at all. I argue that there should be no official websites.
 523 2011-06-15 03:40:47 <genewitch> except mine
 524 2011-06-15 03:40:49 <genewitch> mine is official
 525 2011-06-15 03:40:52 <jgarzik> theymos: then let's not have -any- forum on bitcoin.org
 526 2011-06-15 03:41:11 <jgarzik> theymos: ceasing use of bitcoin.org would be fine
 527 2011-06-15 03:41:12 <genewitch> jgarzik: the wiki can link to forums for bitcoin users
 528 2011-06-15 03:41:53 <jgarzik> theymos: you cannot have it both ways.   if you truly want "no official websites" then let's stop using bitcoin.org altogether.
 529 2011-06-15 03:41:56 <genewitch> hey you guys remember webrings? we should bring that back.
 530 2011-06-15 03:42:06 <thallium205> hahaha
 531 2011-06-15 03:42:12 theboos has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 532 2011-06-15 03:42:23 krazee has quit ()
 533 2011-06-15 03:42:35 <upb> <@jgarzik> slush2: your OS decides which interface for outgoing packets <- thats only partially true. in linux you can do it with source routing but if the software has no way to specifiy the source address you rule out that opportunity
 534 2011-06-15 03:42:38 <theymos> Why is bitcoin.org necessarily official? It's not linked anywhere in the program. No development takes place there. No developers own it.
 535 2011-06-15 03:42:54 <genewitch> upb: it's an OSI layer thing
 536 2011-06-15 03:42:54 <cacheson> genewitch: for stuff like "my super-awesome geocities bitcoin homepage"?  ;)
 537 2011-06-15 03:43:08 <gjs278> I'm highly opposed to how crappy bitcoin.org is
 538 2011-06-15 03:43:09 <genewitch> cacheson: exactly
 539 2011-06-15 03:43:12 <mrb_> one more thing to consider is that using different domains makes it (a bit) harder for a government to go through the redtape to block access to all domains
 540 2011-06-15 03:43:14 <gjs278> I was very vocal about this like two months ago
 541 2011-06-15 03:43:25 <luke-jr> jgarzik: bitcoin.org doesn't have any claim of "official" IMO
 542 2011-06-15 03:43:39 <theymos> Ha! There's one person who agrees with me. :)
 543 2011-06-15 03:43:40 <mrb_> (thinking of The Great Firewall and other repressive countries)
 544 2011-06-15 03:43:42 <luke-jr> theymos: the program isn't official either
 545 2011-06-15 03:43:42 <gjs278> it's the title of our channel
 546 2011-06-15 03:43:48 <gjs278> if it's not official take it out
 547 2011-06-15 03:43:49 <cacheson> theymos: eh, bitcoin.org is a decent place for the mainline client
 548 2011-06-15 03:43:59 <cacheson> theymos: it's like getting openoffice from openoffice.org, etc.
 549 2011-06-15 03:44:10 <genewitch> luke-jr: maybe not "officially" if you'll pardon me for a second here but as mentioned when someone mentions bitcoin in the media it references bitcoin.org, hence it becomes the defacto official server.
 550 2011-06-15 03:44:12 <luke-jr> IMO, bitcoin.org should be like weusecoins.com
 551 2011-06-15 03:44:26 <jgarzik> should be... but isn't
 552 2011-06-15 03:44:37 <theymos> luke-jr: That's exactly my position.
 553 2011-06-15 03:44:40 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I would be fine with that
 554 2011-06-15 03:44:48 <jgarzik> luke-jr: as long as the forums aren't on there
 555 2011-06-15 03:45:09 <luke-jr> if you guys don't think a forum is appropriate, I'd be welcome to have something on bitgit.org (or whatever TLD I ended up with)
 556 2011-06-15 03:45:10 <thallium205> bittorrent is highly decentralized, but there still exists bittorrent.com (and it has community forums)
 557 2011-06-15 03:45:21 <jgarzik> there is not a single forum linked on weusecoins.com
 558 2011-06-15 03:45:22 <genewitch> can't the devs and powerusers switch to a bugzilla/regular forum format and let the community host the user forums?
 559 2011-06-15 03:45:24 <gjs278> bittorrent.com is nowhere near as official as bitcoin.org tries to be
 560 2011-06-15 03:45:30 <upb> genewitch: sure its an OSI 'layer thing' :D
 561 2011-06-15 03:45:36 LameArse has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 562 2011-06-15 03:45:36 <luke-jr> which I had planned to be a hosting site for Bitcoin-related projects (incl bug tracker, git, etc)
 563 2011-06-15 03:45:39 <gjs278> but that's due to there being hundreds of clients
 564 2011-06-15 03:45:54 <upb> genewitch: i'm arguing that bind()ing the outgoing socket is a prerequisite of doing source routing
 565 2011-06-15 03:46:02 <luke-jr> gjs278: forums in general are irregular
 566 2011-06-15 03:46:10 <gjs278> they are
 567 2011-06-15 03:46:47 <genewitch> basically what i am hearing here is that we wish there were an opensource way for people to collaborate and ask questions on the internet semi anonymously?
 568 2011-06-15 03:46:50 <jgarzik> luke-jr: so you actively support illegal activity?
 569 2011-06-15 03:46:51 <gjs278> if bitcoin.org is the officlal website, it should be in a public repo the same as the "official client"
 570 2011-06-15 03:46:58 <genewitch> Where nodes could come on and drop off and not really affect the whole?
 571 2011-06-15 03:47:01 <genewitch> I think this exists.
 572 2011-06-15 03:47:12 <genewitch> hold on i have to google the name
 573 2011-06-15 03:47:13 <luke-jr> jgarzik: what? no
 574 2011-06-15 03:47:17 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 575 2011-06-15 03:47:25 <theymos> I support some types of illegal activity. Free trade, for example.
 576 2011-06-15 03:47:26 <luke-jr> gjs278: there is no official
 577 2011-06-15 03:47:40 <gjs278> bitcoin.org is in our title, we give the impression away that it is official
 578 2011-06-15 03:47:47 <genewitch> oh i found it! It's called IRC!
 579 2011-06-15 03:47:53 <theymos> Why is bitcoin.it not official?
 580 2011-06-15 03:48:05 <genewitch> theymos: cause who's ever heard of .it
 581 2011-06-15 03:48:05 <luke-jr> gjs278: this channel isn't official either. there is no official, or Bitcoin becomes the Fed
 582 2011-06-15 03:48:09 <gjs278> the sourceforge page should be linked here, not bitcoin.org
 583 2011-06-15 03:48:09 coniiion has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 584 2011-06-15 03:48:17 <jgarzik> um, satoshi did not register bitcoin.it.  the press does not link to bitcoin.it.
 585 2011-06-15 03:48:29 <jgarzik> ...as "official bitcoin website"
 586 2011-06-15 03:48:33 <genewitch> defacto "official" the media have to link somewhere
 587 2011-06-15 03:48:38 <coderrr> does someone still have access to satoshi's private key which can be used to issue alerts ?
 588 2011-06-15 03:48:44 <coderrr> or did it dissapear along with him ?
 589 2011-06-15 03:48:57 <genewitch> jgarzik: you mean "just google it" isn't a valid way to get users to the community?
 590 2011-06-15 03:48:58 cryptocnt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 591 2011-06-15 03:48:59 <luke-jr> coderrr: jgarzik does
 592 2011-06-15 03:48:59 <gjs278> we've been mining for it all of this time
 593 2011-06-15 03:49:06 LameArse has joined
 594 2011-06-15 03:49:06 <coderrr> luke-jr, cool thx, just wondering
 595 2011-06-15 03:49:10 <jgarzik> luke-jr: no, gavin does
 596 2011-06-15 03:49:14 <coderrr> ah ok
 597 2011-06-15 03:49:16 <gjs278> that's the whole point of the project, to reverse satoshi's key
 598 2011-06-15 03:49:21 <coderrr> haha
 599 2011-06-15 03:49:27 cryptocnt has joined
 600 2011-06-15 03:49:30 <theymos> Does he have the alert key now? I didn't hear about that.
 601 2011-06-15 03:49:36 <luke-jr> jgarzik: that's what I meant to say :P
 602 2011-06-15 03:49:54 <genewitch> why did satoshi disappear
 603 2011-06-15 03:50:12 <gjs278> had to catch up on anime
 604 2011-06-15 03:50:12 <luke-jr> I propose Bitcoin.org be a general repository of links to community resources, laid out for newbies :P
 605 2011-06-15 03:50:32 <luke-jr> ie, download page links to most popular client at the time
 606 2011-06-15 03:50:35 <jgarzik> luke-jr: sounds great
 607 2011-06-15 03:50:37 <luke-jr> maybe to be voted in every year
 608 2011-06-15 03:50:38 <genewitch> luke-jr: can it have animated balls and marquees?
 609 2011-06-15 03:50:41 <jgarzik> luke-jr: like weusecoins.com...
 610 2011-06-15 03:50:41 <luke-jr> or month, if it gets competitive
 611 2011-06-15 03:50:59 <luke-jr> jgarzik: yeah, maybe bitcoin.org should just forward there :P
 612 2011-06-15 03:51:00 <gjs278> it's all up to whoever owns the site to do that
 613 2011-06-15 03:51:10 <luke-jr> sirius-m does IIRC
 614 2011-06-15 03:51:24 <jgarzik> luke-jr: RE illegal activity:  people are actively soliticing illegal activity on the forums.  "bitcoin.org as official website" passes the layperson's obviousness test, and that's a major problem.  bitcoinj might end due to that, for example.
 615 2011-06-15 03:51:29 <jgarzik> it's become a serious problem
 616 2011-06-15 03:51:46 <genewitch> jgarzik: more active policing
 617 2011-06-15 03:51:49 <jgarzik> trying to convince businesses to accept bitcoins under those conditions is... difficult
 618 2011-06-15 03:51:50 <genewitch> jgarzik: pay in BTC
 619 2011-06-15 03:51:55 <jgarzik> genewitch: theymos is the police
 620 2011-06-15 03:51:58 dominiqu1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 621 2011-06-15 03:52:05 <jgarzik> genewitch: centralized administrator by fiat
 622 2011-06-15 03:52:09 <luke-jr> jgarzik: ok, good reason to (re)move the fourms from bitcoin.org :p
 623 2011-06-15 03:52:13 <genewitch> he needs to deputize peopl
 624 2011-06-15 03:52:16 <jgarzik> luke-jr: yes
 625 2011-06-15 03:52:28 elmom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 626 2011-06-15 03:52:29 <gjs278> good reason to not use bitcoin.org because one guy has complete control over it
 627 2011-06-15 03:52:31 <jgarzik> genewitch: anybody who tries to delete signs of illegal activity has their mod powers yanked
 628 2011-06-15 03:52:44 <luke-jr> jgarzik: srsly?
 629 2011-06-15 03:52:45 <jgarzik> gjs278: unfortunately we cannot tell the press nor google that
 630 2011-06-15 03:52:49 <jgarzik> luke-jr: yes
 631 2011-06-15 03:52:52 <luke-jr> :o
 632 2011-06-15 03:52:59 <genewitch> businesses don't know how to use BTC. also the "it's used for illict activity" is a silly excuse. Every American $20 has more cocaine on it than ink.
 633 2011-06-15 03:53:02 original_speeder is now known as Speeder
 634 2011-06-15 03:53:03 <gjs278> yeah it is a little late now
 635 2011-06-15 03:53:07 <genewitch> er don't know how to use forums*
 636 2011-06-15 03:53:09 kalimist has joined
 637 2011-06-15 03:53:09 <theymos> That's not true at all. I've never removed a moderator. And I'm not the only administrator: Gavin was the one who made me an admin.
 638 2011-06-15 03:53:16 <luke-jr> my worthless vote goes to moving forums off bitcoin.org, and censoring them heavily
 639 2011-06-15 03:53:30 <jgarzik> theymos: blatant lie.  you removed my mod powers.
 640 2011-06-15 03:53:31 <luke-jr> and splitting the subforums more
 641 2011-06-15 03:53:37 <luke-jr> …
 642 2011-06-15 03:53:40 <gjs278> force everyone to gpg auth to forum post
 643 2011-06-15 03:53:53 <genewitch> gjs278: screw that gpg is annoying
 644 2011-06-15 03:53:54 <theymos> That modship was only temporary. I said it at the time.
 645 2011-06-15 03:53:58 <gjs278> exactly
 646 2011-06-15 03:53:59 <jgarzik> uh huh
 647 2011-06-15 03:54:02 <luke-jr> jgarzik: he did say it was for 24 hours..
 648 2011-06-15 03:54:11 <jgarzik> luke-jr: it lasted < 60 minutes
 649 2011-06-15 03:54:15 <luke-jr> O.o
 650 2011-06-15 03:54:31 <gjs278> I would trust the cbs interview man to fairly moderate the bitcoin.org forums
 651 2011-06-15 03:54:36 <luke-jr> well, I think everyone agrees forums shouldn't be on bitcoin.org at least? XD
 652 2011-06-15 03:54:42 <jgarzik> theymos: will you make me moderator again, and permit me to delete posts encouraging illegal activity?
 653 2011-06-15 03:54:53 <gjs278> ;;ident jgarzik
 654 2011-06-15 03:54:54 <gribble> Nick 'jgarzik', with hostmask 'jgarzik!~jgarzik@unaffiliated/jgarzik', is not identified.
 655 2011-06-15 03:54:55 <cacheson> luke-jr: theymos doesn't, hence the argument
 656 2011-06-15 03:55:11 <theymos> No. It is the policy of the forum to allow such discussions. Sirius owns the server, so he can change the policy if he's worried about legal action.
 657 2011-06-15 03:55:11 <gjs278> I'm not convinced this is the real jgarzik, don't mod him yet
 658 2011-06-15 03:55:20 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 659 2011-06-15 03:55:48 <genewitch> i know how to tell
 660 2011-06-15 03:56:02 <genewitch> jgarzik: pushpoold is not updating my hashrate in the database, what up with that
 661 2011-06-15 03:56:19 <jgarzik> ;;ident
 662 2011-06-15 03:56:19 <gribble> You are identified as user jgarzik, with GPG key id DA1DC20F2DBF0CA8, and key fingerprint 60B00235B3355D84BF2A4E35DA1DC20F2DBF0CA8.
 663 2011-06-15 03:56:22 <jgarzik> Now I'm me :)
 664 2011-06-15 03:56:26 <gjs278> mod this man
 665 2011-06-15 03:56:39 <luke-jr> sounds like nothing will get accomplished without sirius-m in the discussion
 666 2011-06-15 03:57:32 <genewitch> well, i mean there are ways of preventing users from accessing something
 667 2011-06-15 03:57:53 <luke-jr> genewitch: you're not implying we DDoS the forums I hope? :/
 668 2011-06-15 03:57:58 <genewitch> no never
 669 2011-06-15 03:58:10 <genewitch> i meant ask nicely
 670 2011-06-15 03:58:12 muffinz has joined
 671 2011-06-15 03:58:27 kratosk has joined
 672 2011-06-15 03:58:42 <jgarzik> official website bitcoin.org points to the forums on forums.bitcoin.org.  new users are essentially automatically directed there.
 673 2011-06-15 03:58:49 Gaming4JC has joined
 674 2011-06-15 03:59:01 <theymos> I'd be fine with removing the link.
 675 2011-06-15 03:59:28 <Gaming4JC> Anyone know if this will work on OpenCart v1.5.0.5 ? https://github.com/tabsa/opencart-bitcoin-payment-module
 676 2011-06-15 03:59:36 <Gaming4JC> seems to only support 1.4.9 :(
 677 2011-06-15 03:59:40 <jgarzik> it needs to move away from the satoshi's domain
 678 2011-06-15 03:59:46 <Gaming4JC> kinda need it epically at the moment
 679 2011-06-15 03:59:58 <genewitch> jgarzik: well, i mean, a comprimise sounds good for this instant
 680 2011-06-15 04:00:15 <genewitch> we might see less influx of complete idiots if there's no link on the quote official unquote page
 681 2011-06-15 04:00:19 <luke-jr> yep, nothing is going to change significant without sirius-m
 682 2011-06-15 04:00:38 <jgarzik> hooray for centralized control of a decentralized project...
 683 2011-06-15 04:00:59 * genewitch mumbles something about a security audit
 684 2011-06-15 04:01:32 <genewitch> jgarzik: there should be an official wiki, with a committe
 685 2011-06-15 04:01:35 <jgarzik> the forums have changed hostnames before, and it was not a big deal
 686 2011-06-15 04:01:42 <jgarzik> genewitch: hehe
 687 2011-06-15 04:02:08 <genewitch> well i mean that's how most FOSS projects are run, commitee, LINUX "penguin pee" TORVALDS excepted, of course.
 688 2011-06-15 04:02:12 osmosis has joined
 689 2011-06-15 04:02:16 <theymos> Centralization is an effective management technique as long as there are many centralized organizations to compete.
 690 2011-06-15 04:02:32 osmosis_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 691 2011-06-15 04:03:01 <cacheson> theymos: right, so splitting the forums off from bitcoin.org furthers that
 692 2011-06-15 04:03:27 <cacheson> theymos: makes the forums and the development stuff into two visibly separate organizations
 693 2011-06-15 04:03:46 <jgarzik> indeed
 694 2011-06-15 04:03:51 sgstair has joined
 695 2011-06-15 04:03:58 <cacheson> that way you can let people talk about what they want to on the forums without the developers getting (as much) flak about it
 696 2011-06-15 04:04:24 <jgarzik> being under "bitcoin.org" the domain that satoshi created, and that search engines and press link to, obviously heavily favors "bitcoin.org" over any other domain
 697 2011-06-15 04:04:44 <genewitch> jgarzik: bitcoin.blogspot.com is a close second though
 698 2011-06-15 04:04:45 <luke-jr> cacheson: "development staff" is too vague too
 699 2011-06-15 04:05:00 <luke-jr> bitcoin.org shouldn't be biased to any one project
 700 2011-06-15 04:05:25 <luke-jr> besides a "default" by popularity
 701 2011-06-15 04:05:28 <cacheson> luke-jr: I don't see anything terribly wrong with it being associated with the mainline client
 702 2011-06-15 04:05:45 <luke-jr> cacheson: because there's multiple mainline clients
 703 2011-06-15 04:05:53 <genewitch> luke-jr: who gets to decide what goes on the main page though? group editing of a website... hey we can patent that and call it something cool
 704 2011-06-15 04:05:56 <genewitch> like
 705 2011-06-15 04:05:57 <cacheson> luke-jr: uh... no?
 706 2011-06-15 04:06:00 <genewitch> wiky
 707 2011-06-15 04:06:14 <genewitch> yeah wiky, and we can make an encyclopedia
 708 2011-06-15 04:06:41 <luke-jr> genewitch: popular vote
 709 2011-06-15 04:06:54 <genewitch> luke-jr: it works so well for prom king
 710 2011-06-15 04:06:57 <cacheson> this is just like bittorrent, openoffice, etc.
 711 2011-06-15 04:07:02 <luke-jr> cacheson: no
 712 2011-06-15 04:07:10 <jgarzik> I'll even purchase the domain (bitcointalk.org?) for 10 years, register w/ privacy enhanced domain registrar, and transfer it to theymos  or whomever wants it
 713 2011-06-15 04:07:15 <genewitch> luke-jr: slashdot upvoting style would probably be best
 714 2011-06-15 04:07:22 <luke-jr> genewitch: interesting idea
 715 2011-06-15 04:07:23 <cacheson> they have the mainline software on the domain of the same name, and there are forks elsewhere
 716 2011-06-15 04:07:37 <cacheson> in the case of bittorrent, the forks are far more popular
 717 2011-06-15 04:07:41 <luke-jr> cacheson: openoffice doesn't purport to be distributed in any way
 718 2011-06-15 04:08:03 <cacheson> luke-jr: so?
 719 2011-06-15 04:08:11 <gjs278> yeah openoffice isn't a protocol, it's a program
 720 2011-06-15 04:08:19 <gjs278> bitcoin is a way of life
 721 2011-06-15 04:08:21 <luke-jr> bittorrent *does* have a reference implementation, but it's not promoted in any way on bittorrent.org
 722 2011-06-15 04:08:25 <cacheson> gjs278: o_O
 723 2011-06-15 04:08:38 <genewitch> gjs278: BTC4L
 724 2011-06-15 04:08:43 Stellar has quit (Quit: Signed)
 725 2011-06-15 04:08:45 <luke-jr> and in the case of bittorrent, having a single client doesn't mean the developers control money
 726 2011-06-15 04:09:16 <genewitch> kernel.org
 727 2011-06-15 04:09:34 <luke-jr> genewitch: Linux isn't decentralized either
 728 2011-06-15 04:09:44 <luke-jr> nor does it control your money if you use it
 729 2011-06-15 04:09:54 llama has joined
 730 2011-06-15 04:09:54 <luke-jr> Bitcoin is basically unique
 731 2011-06-15 04:09:59 <theymos> IETF is maybe close.
 732 2011-06-15 04:10:13 <luke-jr> IETF doesn't provide reference implementations
 733 2011-06-15 04:10:16 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 734 2011-06-15 04:10:43 <cacheson> pretty sure it doesn't matter either way
 735 2011-06-15 04:10:56 <cacheson> if there's a better third-party client, it'll be popular
 736 2011-06-15 04:10:56 <genewitch> i think we can agree that bitcoin is novel
 737 2011-06-15 04:11:00 <genewitch> hence why it has value
 738 2011-06-15 04:11:28 <genewitch> novel solutions are needed to age old problems, of people seeing a large group and coming over and trying to sell drugs or steal purses.
 739 2011-06-15 04:11:41 Stellar has joined
 740 2011-06-15 04:13:12 <genewitch> bitcoinwatch does a really good job of displaying the status of a decentralized system
 741 2011-06-15 04:13:18 <genewitch> IMHO
 742 2011-06-15 04:14:40 cronopio has joined
 743 2011-06-15 04:15:02 <Gekz> hey luke-jr: http://web.archive.org/web/20050531000540/http://www.bittorrent.org/
 744 2011-06-15 04:15:37 <genewitch> hot or not?
 745 2011-06-15 04:15:52 <genewitch> so if i sold VPS for BTC would i be popular
 746 2011-06-15 04:15:58 <luke-jr> Gekz: 2005 != 2011
 747 2011-06-15 04:16:03 <luke-jr> genewitch: no
 748 2011-06-15 04:16:11 <Gekz> no, but it does show relative timelines you douche
 749 2011-06-15 04:16:23 <genewitch> he's not a shower
 750 2011-06-15 04:16:25 <Gekz> lol
 751 2011-06-15 04:16:48 <Gekz> devs can do what they want with the website, as they're the devs.
 752 2011-06-15 04:16:54 <Gekz> if you disagree, compete and beat them.
 753 2011-06-15 04:17:02 <cacheson> luke-jr: bitcoin is at the stage of development now that bittorrent was in 2005 and earlier
 754 2011-06-15 04:17:03 <Gekz> I'm pretty sure bittorrent.org changed after the fact, not before.
 755 2011-06-15 04:17:11 <luke-jr> Gekz: obviously the "devs" you refer to don't own the website
 756 2011-06-15 04:17:30 <genewitch> for luke-jr is a dev
 757 2011-06-15 04:17:32 <luke-jr> cacheson: hence why the reference implementation should be given more focus due to its popularity
 758 2011-06-15 04:17:52 <cacheson> luke-jr: alright, so what's the problem, then?
 759 2011-06-15 04:18:06 <genewitch> in fact, most of the people arguing that the forums and other stuff need to be off bitcoin.org are the devs
 760 2011-06-15 04:18:09 <genewitch> soooo
 761 2011-06-15 04:18:12 <luke-jr> cacheson: you tell me
 762 2011-06-15 04:18:38 k^^ has joined
 763 2011-06-15 04:18:52 backwardation25 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 764 2011-06-15 04:19:34 jackmcbarn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 765 2011-06-15 04:20:02 sender555 has joined
 766 2011-06-15 04:21:21 stahi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 767 2011-06-15 04:21:39 kratosk has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 768 2011-06-15 04:22:22 RenaKunisaki has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 769 2011-06-15 04:22:33 kratosk has joined
 770 2011-06-15 04:22:35 freebrew has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 771 2011-06-15 04:23:19 RenaKunisaki has joined
 772 2011-06-15 04:23:23 yebyen has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 773 2011-06-15 04:23:37 Xenland has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 774 2011-06-15 04:23:40 mmoya has joined
 775 2011-06-15 04:23:48 Lenovo01 has joined
 776 2011-06-15 04:24:13 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 777 2011-06-15 04:24:13 yebyen has joined
 778 2011-06-15 04:25:14 dukeleto has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 779 2011-06-15 04:25:38 <`marianne`> may i propose that we rename 0.01 BTC from the official and boring name of "centi-bitcoin" to the much much cooler name "bitpenny"? :P
 780 2011-06-15 04:26:37 <cacheson> `marianne`: I call them "bitcents"
 781 2011-06-15 04:26:57 <`marianne`> see, i'm not the only one with this idea hehe
 782 2011-06-15 04:26:58 <cacheson> also, satoshi = microbitcent
 783 2011-06-15 04:27:00 <genewitch> what is the smallest unit of BTC called
 784 2011-06-15 04:27:07 <`marianne`> a satoshi
 785 2011-06-15 04:27:07 <cacheson> genewitch: ^
 786 2011-06-15 04:27:11 <genewitch> oh
 787 2011-06-15 04:27:19 <`marianne`> or a bitcoin-bong
 788 2011-06-15 04:27:31 <dissipate> anyone have a fallback node address? these aren't working for me https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes
 789 2011-06-15 04:28:44 <theymos> Probably they've all been spammed to death. I had 280 connections -- Bitcoin was eating so much IO that it brought down BBE.
 790 2011-06-15 04:29:11 osmosis has joined
 791 2011-06-15 04:29:55 <theymos> Recently a lot of really old blocks were spent. Maybe Satoshi is cashing out? More than 20 of the first thousand blocks were spent in the last week, including block #78.
 792 2011-06-15 04:30:09 <Diablo-D3> theymos: well
 793 2011-06-15 04:30:20 <Diablo-D3> lulzsec says they made a fake tx that stole a lot of money
 794 2011-06-15 04:30:44 <genewitch> the what
 795 2011-06-15 04:30:50 <kratosk> fake tx?
 796 2011-06-15 04:31:08 <theymos> lulzsec is lying (for teh lulz).
 797 2011-06-15 04:31:09 <genewitch> transaction isn't "tx" if that's what yuo meant
 798 2011-06-15 04:31:35 <Diablo-D3> genewitch: it is.
 799 2011-06-15 04:31:52 <Diablo-D3> its ALSO transmission depending on the context
 800 2011-06-15 04:32:06 <Diablo-D3> which is hilarious when you arent paying attention
 801 2011-06-15 04:32:12 <luke-jr> `marianne`: BitPenny was a pool
 802 2011-06-15 04:32:16 <afed> i steal pets from the popular people
 803 2011-06-15 04:32:57 <`marianne`> luke-jr, aww, ok then hehe
 804 2011-06-15 04:33:31 <kratosk> theymos: it may also be that Satoshi is the anonymous benefactor that's been righting wrongs, like accounts being stolen /shrugs
 805 2011-06-15 04:34:00 <luke-jr> kratosk: wait what?
 806 2011-06-15 04:34:02 <theymos> Has someone been paying people who have their accounts stolen? I haven't heard about that.
 807 2011-06-15 04:34:11 * luke-jr posts on the forum about 500,000 BTC beign stolen <.<
 808 2011-06-15 04:34:20 <genewitch> the wha
 809 2011-06-15 04:34:21 <genewitch> me too
 810 2011-06-15 04:34:24 <genewitch> except only 200
 811 2011-06-15 04:34:43 <genewitch> for my pool to allow payouts before the blocks hit so more people join it :-/
 812 2011-06-15 04:34:54 <kratosk> theymos: someone was claimin git happened in #bitcoin and thanking whoever it was
 813 2011-06-15 04:35:17 <AAA_awright> How _do_ you tell Bitcoind to connect to another peer?
 814 2011-06-15 04:35:42 <luke-jr> -addnode=1.1.1.1
 815 2011-06-15 04:35:50 <AAA_awright> That's at startup though
 816 2011-06-15 04:35:56 <AAA_awright> I'm talking about post-startup
 817 2011-06-15 04:37:03 <kratosk> theymos: if the story is true, I'm sure whatever happened was verifiable /shrugs
 818 2011-06-15 04:37:46 mithridates has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 819 2011-06-15 04:37:53 <genewitch> AAA_awright: hold
 820 2011-06-15 04:38:17 soossii has joined
 821 2011-06-15 04:38:26 <kratosk> guys, is it possible to download the block without the transaction history first so I can get started on mining? I've been trying to download it for over 4 days now
 822 2011-06-15 04:38:33 <genewitch> AAA_awright: it's not in the bitcoin commands
 823 2011-06-15 04:38:34 <kratosk> block = blocks
 824 2011-06-15 04:38:45 <genewitch> kratosk: the fu
 825 2011-06-15 04:38:51 <genewitch> kratosk: join a pool?
 826 2011-06-15 04:39:25 <kratosk> genewitch: what is fu?
 827 2011-06-15 04:39:43 <genewitch> kratosk: it took my node like 15 minutes to get everything it needed to start the mining pool up (it was throwing connection errors for those 15 minutes)
 828 2011-06-15 04:39:49 <genewitch> kratosk: a naughty word
 829 2011-06-15 04:40:35 <kratosk> genewitch: I haven't looked into mining pools. Which one do you reccomend?
 830 2011-06-15 04:41:27 <kratosk> I think this entire concept is really neat. I sure wish I knew about it sooner
 831 2011-06-15 04:41:43 <kratosk> (bitcoins in general)
 832 2011-06-15 04:41:51 <Gekz> #bitcoin for bitcoins in general
 833 2011-06-15 04:42:40 k^^ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
 834 2011-06-15 04:44:15 AnotherBrian has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 835 2011-06-15 04:51:59 <luke-jr> kratosk: #Eligius
 836 2011-06-15 04:56:52 johnlockwood_ has quit (Quit: johnlockwood_)
 837 2011-06-15 04:58:15 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 838 2011-06-15 05:01:12 skeledrew has joined
 839 2011-06-15 05:03:55 <osmosis> luke-jr, first it was $25k worth of coins.  then it was 25k btc  worth $500k.  Now its 500k btc  ?
 840 2011-06-15 05:04:20 quellhorst has joined
 841 2011-06-15 05:04:48 br00t has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 842 2011-06-15 05:05:07 <osmosis> luke-jr, [14/06/2011 21:35:21] Result: 03774a7c rejected
 843 2011-06-15 05:05:12 <osmosis> luke-jr, why am i getting rejected results?
 844 2011-06-15 05:05:15 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
 845 2011-06-15 05:05:26 <luke-jr> osmosis: because your clock is wrong
 846 2011-06-15 05:05:34 sender555 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 847 2011-06-15 05:05:37 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
 848 2011-06-15 05:05:42 sender555 has joined
 849 2011-06-15 05:05:46 <osmosis> luke-jr, Tue Jun 14 22:05:17 PDT 2011
 850 2011-06-15 05:05:51 <osmosis> luke-jr, i use ntp
 851 2011-06-15 05:05:54 <luke-jr> [14/06/2011 21:35:21] Result: 03774a7c rejected
 852 2011-06-15 05:05:59 <luke-jr> 21:35 != 22:05
 853 2011-06-15 05:06:19 <osmosis> ok
 854 2011-06-15 05:06:21 <afed> maybe he's in one of those goofy half hour time zones
 855 2011-06-15 05:06:48 manveru has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 856 2011-06-15 05:06:54 Castor_ has quit ()
 857 2011-06-15 05:06:58 <theymos> As of a few minutes ago, I am now 20 years old. :D
 858 2011-06-15 05:07:19 <luke-jr> as of a week ago, I am now 26 years old.
 859 2011-06-15 05:07:22 <osmosis> luke-jr, afed :  i was just pasting from the screen a reject from 30 min ago.  my system time seems fine though
 860 2011-06-15 05:07:33 <luke-jr> osmosis: well, are they ALL being rejected?
 861 2011-06-15 05:07:37 <luke-jr> or like 1%?
 862 2011-06-15 05:07:56 <osmosis> looks like all
 863 2011-06-15 05:07:59 Kireji has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 864 2011-06-15 05:08:04 Kireji has joined
 865 2011-06-15 05:08:09 hdon- has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 866 2011-06-15 05:09:33 <osmosis> luke-jr, maybe there was some accepted.  http://dpaste.com/554443/
 867 2011-06-15 05:09:36 <luke-jr> osmosis: what address?
 868 2011-06-15 05:09:48 <luke-jr> osmosis: btw, this is really a topic for #Eligius
 869 2011-06-15 05:10:21 manveru has joined
 870 2011-06-15 05:11:15 <forests> is there any getwork sample data I can use to test my miner so see if it hashes correctly?
 871 2011-06-15 05:11:41 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 872 2011-06-15 05:12:02 <jgarzik> forests: there really should be
 873 2011-06-15 05:12:11 <jgarzik> forests: have you looked at pyminer and cpuminer?
 874 2011-06-15 05:12:33 <forests> I've looked at cpuminer
 875 2011-06-15 05:12:53 <jgarzik> forests: they contain validation code.  from there, you can try mining on testnet with multiple miners working on the same getwork.  that will tell you whether or not it hashes correctly, by comparing the same work, worked on by multiple miners.
 876 2011-06-15 05:15:06 cryptocnt has joined
 877 2011-06-15 05:15:28 <forests> good idea, good work on cpuminer by the way
 878 2011-06-15 05:15:36 wolfspraul has joined
 879 2011-06-15 05:15:43 <Gekz> is there a reason that bitcoins can't be encrypted the same way GPG works?
 880 2011-06-15 05:15:53 <Gekz> ie, enter a passphrase to decrypt them
 881 2011-06-15 05:16:10 <luke-jr> Gekz: yes
 882 2011-06-15 05:16:31 <cacheson> Gekz: wallet encryption is supposed to be in the next version
 883 2011-06-15 05:16:41 <luke-jr> oh
 884 2011-06-15 05:16:46 <luke-jr> I misunderstood his question I guess
 885 2011-06-15 05:16:50 <Gekz> I'm not sure how wallet encryption will solve the problem
 886 2011-06-15 05:16:59 <Gekz> because won't it be decrypted while the client is open?
 887 2011-06-15 05:17:30 <cacheson> Gekz: well, your private key in GPG is decrypted when it's being accessed
 888 2011-06-15 05:17:42 <luke-jr> Gekz: in memory, only as long as you have the wallet open
 889 2011-06-15 05:17:45 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 890 2011-06-15 05:18:01 <luke-jr> bigger problem will be keyloggers
 891 2011-06-15 05:18:29 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 892 2011-06-15 05:18:53 <thallium205> what if one were to create an arduino bitcoin wallet to serve as a hardware wallet for a savings account?
 893 2011-06-15 05:18:55 xfactor has joined
 894 2011-06-15 05:19:16 <luke-jr> thallium205: you could do that with Spesmilo and a real SOC
 895 2011-06-15 05:19:43 <luke-jr> thallium205: but it's generally easier to just encrypt a wallet, print it out, and store it in a safe deposit box
 896 2011-06-15 05:19:48 <luke-jr> and just send to it
 897 2011-06-15 05:20:28 <thallium205> yeah
 898 2011-06-15 05:20:40 <Gekz> cacheson: yes, but couldn't each field in the db be encrypted so you must enter your passphrase to make a transaction?
 899 2011-06-15 05:20:40 r2k has joined
 900 2011-06-15 05:21:04 <luke-jr> Gekz: that's how ti works
 901 2011-06-15 05:21:14 <xfactor> hi
 902 2011-06-15 05:21:15 Breign has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 903 2011-06-15 05:21:25 muffinz is now known as syke
 904 2011-06-15 05:22:26 <CIA-90> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r35864f9 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Improve nvidia support - http://bit.ly/iF42vU
 905 2011-06-15 05:22:27 <CIA-90> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rd089d86 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java :
 906 2011-06-15 05:22:27 <CIA-90> DiabloMiner: Fixed connection errors accidently counting as rejects, spurious
 907 2011-06-15 05:22:48 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
 908 2011-06-15 05:22:50 <cacheson> Gekz: in theory, yeah.  I haven't looked at the specifics of how it's going to be implemented
 909 2011-06-15 05:22:51 Breign has joined
 910 2011-06-15 05:23:29 hdon- has joined
 911 2011-06-15 05:25:46 drdig has joined
 912 2011-06-15 05:26:13 <drdig> can I somehow check to which peers my bitcoind is currently connected to?
 913 2011-06-15 05:26:34 <syke> ;;bc,stats
 914 2011-06-15 05:26:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 130926 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 113 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 11 hours, 14 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 861176.35169682
 915 2011-06-15 05:28:34 osmosis has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 916 2011-06-15 05:29:15 <Gekz> cacheson: if that were the case it should work fine, because it would be encrypted in RAM still
 917 2011-06-15 05:30:47 osmosis has joined
 918 2011-06-15 05:32:11 jackmcbarn has joined
 919 2011-06-15 05:33:11 <JFK911> we should put bitcoin under the gnu public license
 920 2011-06-15 05:34:19 fpgaminer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 921 2011-06-15 05:34:55 fpgaminer has joined
 922 2011-06-15 05:35:27 ezl-away is now known as ezl
 923 2011-06-15 05:37:09 Gaming4JC has quit (Quit: Are you a good person? http://needgod.com)
 924 2011-06-15 05:39:51 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 925 2011-06-15 05:43:43 Joric has joined
 926 2011-06-15 05:43:45 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 927 2011-06-15 05:53:22 dissipate has joined
 928 2011-06-15 05:54:26 quellhor1t has joined
 929 2011-06-15 05:54:57 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 930 2011-06-15 05:54:58 hacim has joined
 931 2011-06-15 05:55:20 <knotwork> does downloading the blockchain rely on finding someone else with an open port you can connect to, or can it work by them finding your open port connecting to you and giving you the blockchain?
 932 2011-06-15 05:55:32 <hacim> why cant I do: mtgox_orders = json.load(urllib.urlopen(http://mtgox.com/code/data/getDepth.php)) ? it doesn't find a json object
 933 2011-06-15 05:55:53 pirrr has joined
 934 2011-06-15 05:56:03 <hacim> if I used other exchanges' depth json, it works (such as tradehill)
 935 2011-06-15 05:56:05 <Blitzboom> http://thenextweb.com/industry/2011/06/15/close-to-us500k-stolen-in-first-major-bitcoin-theft/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheNextWeb+%28The+Next+Web+All+Stories%29
 936 2011-06-15 05:56:08 <Blitzboom> -_-
 937 2011-06-15 05:56:29 <Blitzboom> as if "black friday" wasn’t enough
 938 2011-06-15 05:57:23 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 939 2011-06-15 05:57:25 <Blitzboom> "While at the time of this writing the BTC is trading at $19.51, I wouldn’t be surprised to see their value drop over the course of the day as this news spreads."
 940 2011-06-15 05:57:26 <Blitzboom> FUD
 941 2011-06-15 05:57:45 <Blitzboom> bitcoins actually should be more valuable if it’s so easy to lose them :D
 942 2011-06-15 05:57:52 quellhor1t is now known as quellhorst
 943 2011-06-15 05:57:55 <hacim> oh, typo
 944 2011-06-15 06:03:00 graingert has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 945 2011-06-15 06:06:36 <wumpus> yes, now the serious FUD attacks start
 946 2011-06-15 06:06:43 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 947 2011-06-15 06:07:07 sytse has joined
 948 2011-06-15 06:07:23 HIKZIDprao has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 949 2011-06-15 06:07:42 <wumpus> bitcoin is starting to get being taken seriously in the mainstream, so all the change-haters and naysayers will take every oppertunity to bash it
 950 2011-06-15 06:08:05 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 951 2011-06-15 06:08:12 <mtrlt> would it be possible to send bitcoins without having to have the private key on a networked computer at any time?
 952 2011-06-15 06:08:20 <Blitzboom> fortunately, this strategy will only drive more people to us
 953 2011-06-15 06:08:33 <mtrlt> like, sign on the networkless computer, move it with an usb stick to a networked computer, then do the rest
 954 2011-06-15 06:08:54 <Blitzboom> interesting idea
 955 2011-06-15 06:09:03 <wumpus> mtrlt: yes.. use the unnetworked computer for signing
 956 2011-06-15 06:09:13 <wumpus> mtrlt: move the message to be signed using usb :)
 957 2011-06-15 06:09:29 <mtrlt> yea that's what i said :p
 958 2011-06-15 06:09:36 <mtrlt> but is it actually possible?
 959 2011-06-15 06:09:38 <wumpus> airgaps are a good idea
 960 2011-06-15 06:09:39 <wumpus> yes
 961 2011-06-15 06:09:41 <Blitzboom> so you actually can send transactions without your private keys ever being exposed to the internet
 962 2011-06-15 06:09:48 <mtrlt> interesting.
 963 2011-06-15 06:09:52 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 964 2011-06-15 06:09:54 <mtrlt> gotta develop this idea further :p
 965 2011-06-15 06:10:03 osmosis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 966 2011-06-15 06:10:07 <Blitzboom> needs to be built in the GUI :P
 967 2011-06-15 06:10:11 <mtrlt> yep
 968 2011-06-15 06:10:23 <wumpus> I think the person having $500k in bitcoins should have paid someone to develop a solution like that instead oif leaving it sit :p
 969 2011-06-15 06:10:33 <mtrlt> there might be a sneaky virus tho, that goes on the USB stick and steals your keys etc :P
 970 2011-06-15 06:10:40 <Blitzboom> stuxnet style?
 971 2011-06-15 06:10:52 <mtrlt> yep
 972 2011-06-15 06:11:03 <wumpus> yes the signing programs should only load and sign the message, and be very resistant to code execution exploits
 973 2011-06-15 06:11:06 <mtrlt> then again, i wouldn't exactly want to run bitcoind on a windows machine
 974 2011-06-15 06:11:06 <sacarlson> Blitzboom: they should start using my auto ecryption method in the future https://sites.google.com/site/remotekeyencrypt/home
 975 2011-06-15 06:11:19 <wumpus> you don't want to run it on a windows machine with autostart :P yeah
 976 2011-06-15 06:11:44 <mtrlt> but in principle a virus like that is possible
 977 2011-06-15 06:11:54 <mtrlt> :p
 978 2011-06-15 06:12:09 <wumpus> yes, it's very unlikely though if the signing system is as simple as possible
 979 2011-06-15 06:12:14 <Blitzboom> ok, the best method is to remember your damn private keys and do the signing in your head
 980 2011-06-15 06:12:27 <mtrlt> lol
 981 2011-06-15 06:12:30 Quetzalcoatl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 982 2011-06-15 06:12:41 <wumpus> much less likely than people stealing the key off your windows pc connected to the internet 
 983 2011-06-15 06:12:46 <mtrlt> true.
 984 2011-06-15 06:12:53 cccp_ has joined
 985 2011-06-15 06:12:59 <mtrlt> i don't have a spare computer to be unnetworked tho :/
 986 2011-06-15 06:13:07 <wumpus> and physical security starts to matter as well if you have that much
 987 2011-06-15 06:13:28 <mtrlt> maybe i'll buy a cheap living room PC
 988 2011-06-15 06:13:38 <Blitzboom> you would need a computer to never ever connect to the internet, right?
 989 2011-06-15 06:13:39 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 990 2011-06-15 06:13:43 <wumpus> yes the problem seems to be that the people that think of solutions like this are not the people that actually have the large amounts of coins
 991 2011-06-15 06:13:49 dissipate has joined
 992 2011-06-15 06:14:00 <mtrlt> could get one for 200e. new. with celeron! :P
 993 2011-06-15 06:14:01 <wumpus> if you have $500k in coins buying an extra netbook for signing is peanuts
 994 2011-06-15 06:14:12 <Blitzboom> wumpus: lol, agreed
 995 2011-06-15 06:14:13 <mtrlt> yeah
 996 2011-06-15 06:14:15 <mtrlt> totally
 997 2011-06-15 06:14:19 <wumpus> heck you can even market some fancy device to them
 998 2011-06-15 06:14:21 <Blitzboom> seriously …
 999 2011-06-15 06:14:27 <Blitzboom> i don’t know what he was thinking
1000 2011-06-15 06:14:48 min0r has joined
1001 2011-06-15 06:14:53 <wumpus> indeed
1002 2011-06-15 06:14:58 <mtrlt> yep
1003 2011-06-15 06:15:05 <dissipate> have they fixed the problem of not being able to connect to a node in .23?
1004 2011-06-15 06:15:08 <min0r> guys, why don't the clients encrypt the wallet.dat by default?? i think this is a huge security flaw
1005 2011-06-15 06:15:24 <Blitzboom> because noone has implemented it yet
1006 2011-06-15 06:15:45 <jgarzik> min0r: FAQ: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=16553.0
1007 2011-06-15 06:15:47 <wumpus> min0r: his machine was compromised, I don't think it would have helped that much, the key would have been keylogged as well
1008 2011-06-15 06:15:58 <dissipate> min0r, because the lead developers for bitcoin are going to CIA talks instead of fixing the glaring problems with the official client.
1009 2011-06-15 06:15:59 <jgarzik> Blitzboom: actually the implementation is linked at the top of the 0.3.23 release post
1010 2011-06-15 06:16:07 <sacarlson> dissipate: never heard of such a problem did you try manualy setting the connect option?
1011 2011-06-15 06:16:12 <Blitzboom> jgarzik: yes, but not in any version yet released
1012 2011-06-15 06:16:16 <jgarzik> true
1013 2011-06-15 06:16:24 <mtrlt> hmm automatic backups on a non-networked computer?
1014 2011-06-15 06:16:33 <syke> ;;bc,stats
1015 2011-06-15 06:16:34 <wumpus> you can merge in the code yourself if you have the balls to test it 
1016 2011-06-15 06:16:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 130935 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 104 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 hours, 18 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 861673.08037617
1017 2011-06-15 06:16:36 <mtrlt> do i just have to have RAID or something .p
1018 2011-06-15 06:16:47 <mtrlt> or lots of usb sticks
1019 2011-06-15 06:16:49 <wumpus> people need to test it to get confidence in it
1020 2011-06-15 06:16:57 <jgarzik> regardless, wallet encryption is useless against many modern attacks used by the big crime syndicates
1021 2011-06-15 06:17:01 <jgarzik> they just grab keys from RAM
1022 2011-06-15 06:17:07 <min0r> all it needs is a 2048-bit block cipher by default
1023 2011-06-15 06:17:26 <wumpus> or simply steal the file and use keylogging to get the passphrase.. can be done with the simplest trojans :
1024 2011-06-15 06:17:29 <min0r> devs should just vote on the encryption method and get it done on the top of the list
1025 2011-06-15 06:17:35 <jgarzik> yep
1026 2011-06-15 06:17:49 <min0r> at least its more secure then a plaintext file
1027 2011-06-15 06:17:58 <wumpus> min0r: that's true
1028 2011-06-15 06:18:02 <jgarzik> min0r: try reading that post and code before yammering
1029 2011-06-15 06:18:05 <dissipate> sacarlson, do you mean with the '-addnode' directive?
1030 2011-06-15 06:18:19 <sacarlson> dissipate: yes that should also work
1031 2011-06-15 06:18:30 <min0r> i'm reading it now
1032 2011-06-15 06:18:32 <Blitzboom> haha yeah, i’m already starting to feel uncomfortable with the coins in my spending wallet
1033 2011-06-15 06:18:42 <dissipate> sacarlson, it isn't working for me. :(
1034 2011-06-15 06:18:45 <min0r> i cant believe that guy lost $500,000 by losing his wallet.dat... crazy
1035 2011-06-15 06:18:49 <jgarzik> best security: keep an offline wallet, encrypted
1036 2011-06-15 06:18:51 <jgarzik> send coins to that
1037 2011-06-15 06:19:04 <jgarzik> "everyday" wallet should not hold many coins
1038 2011-06-15 06:19:25 <dissipate> has the problem of people not being able to connect to a node when they are behind a firewall been fixed in .23?
1039 2011-06-15 06:19:30 <sacarlson> dissipate: well I run my own custom version of bitcoin with multi-crypto currency and don't have resources to test theres
1040 2011-06-15 06:19:41 <min0r> stories like that will not be good for bitcoin -- if the general public hears how easy it is for your money to 'dissapear', then there will be no more adopters, and bitcoin will fail..... monetary systems only work on trust.... i hope the devs keep this in mind and as a top priority moving forward...
1041 2011-06-15 06:19:43 <wumpus> mtrlt: are you going to work on the airgap thing?
1042 2011-06-15 06:19:48 <jgarzik> dissipate: they need to run -upnp
1043 2011-06-15 06:20:23 <Blitzboom> min0r: actually you could easily use mtgox or ewallets as a bank
1044 2011-06-15 06:20:30 <Blitzboom> if you trust them
1045 2011-06-15 06:20:32 <sacarlson> min0r: people will just have to learn to use encypted partitions and forget about using windows
1046 2011-06-15 06:20:43 <wumpus> Blitzboom: attackers can simply keylog your mtgox or ewallet password/username
1047 2011-06-15 06:20:49 <jgarzik> I guess "Priority for next version:  wallet encryption" was not clear enough
1048 2011-06-15 06:20:50 <jgarzik> in the post
1049 2011-06-15 06:20:53 <wumpus> Blitzboom: until they have two-factor auth, that argument is moot :)
1050 2011-06-15 06:21:00 <jgarzik> darn that English language
1051 2011-06-15 06:21:01 <jgarzik> so tough to parse
1052 2011-06-15 06:21:28 <min0r> guys, i understand the 'if you're a n00b you deserve to lose your money' arguement... but i want bitcoin to succeed as an online currency, and that means that grandma and granpa can use it... if they hear horror stories, it will never get mainstream adoption...
1053 2011-06-15 06:21:37 <min0r> its a serious matter
1054 2011-06-15 06:21:39 <wumpus> min0r: you're attacking a strawman
1055 2011-06-15 06:21:42 <Blitzboom> min0r: i agree 100% and i think everyone does
1056 2011-06-15 06:21:52 <wumpus> min0r: no one of us said (or even thinks) that noobs deserve to lose their coins
1057 2011-06-15 06:21:54 <Blitzboom> except for elitist dickheads maybe
1058 2011-06-15 06:22:01 xfactor__ has joined
1059 2011-06-15 06:22:06 KingFisher has joined
1060 2011-06-15 06:22:09 <dissipate> wumpus, we need challenge response phone apps
1061 2011-06-15 06:22:34 <wumpus> min0r: but we're all constrained in time, so go coding instead of nerd raging 
1062 2011-06-15 06:22:53 <Blitzboom> or pay somebody to code ;)
1063 2011-06-15 06:22:57 <wumpus> also good
1064 2011-06-15 06:23:08 <Blitzboom> i’m sure those 25k BTC could have done a good deal of dev work
1065 2011-06-15 06:23:29 <wumpus> yup
1066 2011-06-15 06:23:45 <wumpus> but he just let them sit there on his spyware ridden rig :(
1067 2011-06-15 06:23:49 Dagger2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1068 2011-06-15 06:23:59 Pinion has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
1069 2011-06-15 06:24:08 <Blitzboom> i can’t even begin to think how you can be so unparanoid
1070 2011-06-15 06:24:22 <Blitzboom> i mean, shit, that was a house
1071 2011-06-15 06:24:31 <quellhorst> Blitzboom: because he thought he was too smart
1072 2011-06-15 06:24:45 <wumpus> I really feel for him I do...
1073 2011-06-15 06:25:23 <Blitzboom> me too, but i cannot comprehend it
1074 2011-06-15 06:26:37 <Blitzboom> also, imagine how many coins will be lost just because people forget passwords
1075 2011-06-15 06:26:42 <mtrlt> wumpus: i'll develop the idea further :p
1076 2011-06-15 06:27:10 <Blitzboom> what is the best way to store a password in case of amnesia?
1077 2011-06-15 06:27:21 <Blitzboom> trusted party?
1078 2011-06-15 06:27:39 <mtrlt> nonnetworked computer
1079 2011-06-15 06:27:54 <mtrlt> but you're not safe against physical attacks :p
1080 2011-06-15 06:28:08 <Blitzboom> yeah, so you’d have to hide it and remember the location
1081 2011-06-15 06:28:21 <wumpus> Blitzboom: split your key into parts using xor, so you need M out of N parts to put it together.. you'd still need to remember where you stored the keys, but that's easier than the keys themselves
1082 2011-06-15 06:28:56 <wumpus> Blitzboom: of course that only works for keys you don't need regularly :p
1083 2011-06-15 06:29:26 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1084 2011-06-15 06:29:36 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1085 2011-06-15 06:29:44 osmosis has joined
1086 2011-06-15 06:30:05 HIKZIDprao has joined
1087 2011-06-15 06:30:31 <sacarlson> Blitzboom: ya but if you had amnesia you would forget the location or that you even had one
1088 2011-06-15 06:30:40 d1234 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1089 2011-06-15 06:30:42 <Blitzboom> exactly
1090 2011-06-15 06:30:58 <sacarlson> Blitzboom: I would tell my momy
1091 2011-06-15 06:31:02 <jgarzik> A good way to store bitcoins:  print out the private key on paper, and put it into a safety deposit box
1092 2011-06-15 06:31:14 <jgarzik> destroy the wallet.dat immediately
1093 2011-06-15 06:31:17 <jgarzik> send coins to it
1094 2011-06-15 06:31:26 <syke> ;;bc,stats
1095 2011-06-15 06:31:28 <gribble> Current Blocks: 130943 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 96 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 29 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 864076.37744793
1096 2011-06-15 06:31:36 <wumpus> yes that'd work
1097 2011-06-15 06:31:49 Optimo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1098 2011-06-15 06:31:53 <Blitzboom> … and in a decade discover that you have chosen the wrong address
1099 2011-06-15 06:31:57 * jgarzik watches his savings wallet grow on blockexplorer :)
1100 2011-06-15 06:31:58 underscor has joined
1101 2011-06-15 06:32:35 <Blitzboom> jgarzik: haha, you regularly convert your income to bitcoin?
1102 2011-06-15 06:32:56 <jgarzik> my bitcoin income, yes :)
1103 2011-06-15 06:33:20 <Blitzboom> it’s still such a risky store of value unfortunately
1104 2011-06-15 06:33:39 <Blitzboom> needs to be promoted more as gold 2.0
1105 2011-06-15 06:33:45 <wumpus> it's like cash under your bed
1106 2011-06-15 06:34:16 <Blitzboom> i mean, hell, you can pud your encrypted wallet on your email and access it from anywhere in the world without preying eyes
1107 2011-06-15 06:34:18 <quellhorst> wumpus: cept sometimes someone steals some of the cash, or the tooth ferry adds some more
1108 2011-06-15 06:34:46 unclemantis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1109 2011-06-15 06:34:48 <Blitzboom> it’s theoretically a clearly superior store of value than gold
1110 2011-06-15 06:34:51 <wumpus> except that if you use a spyware-ridden pc it's more like a bed in a shady hotel :P
1111 2011-06-15 06:34:59 <Blitzboom> also for reasons of controlled inflation that is exactly known
1112 2011-06-15 06:35:49 <wumpus> it's easier to protect than gold
1113 2011-06-15 06:35:55 <wumpus> also easier to hide
1114 2011-06-15 06:35:59 <Blitzboom> right
1115 2011-06-15 06:36:10 Dagger2 has joined
1116 2011-06-15 06:36:11 <Blitzboom> no third party needed
1117 2011-06-15 06:36:23 <TommyBoy3G> no truck needed
1118 2011-06-15 06:36:51 Optimo has joined
1119 2011-06-15 06:36:56 <min0r> jgarzik: private key from where?
1120 2011-06-15 06:37:15 <jgarzik> min0r: your wallet
1121 2011-06-15 06:37:20 <wumpus> and if you had $250k of gold, you'd also be very careful with it
1122 2011-06-15 06:37:43 <Blitzboom> you wouldn’t download my wallet
1123 2011-06-15 06:37:44 <wumpus> the private key of the sending address
1124 2011-06-15 06:37:49 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1125 2011-06-15 06:38:06 <min0r> jgarzik: im running macos bitcoin... i see wallet.dat in /application support/bitcoin... wheres the private key?
1126 2011-06-15 06:38:20 <jgarzik> min0r: keys, plural.  inside wallet.dat.
1127 2011-06-15 06:39:07 DD- has joined
1128 2011-06-15 06:39:14 <min0r> just looks like a bunch of gibberish to me when i open it in texteditor
1129 2011-06-15 06:39:23 <mtrlt> it's a berkeleydb file
1130 2011-06-15 06:39:39 <wumpus> it's in binary format
1131 2011-06-15 06:39:45 <min0r> http://gawker.com/5811868/a-500000-geek-cyberheist
1132 2011-06-15 06:40:09 <min0r> well, i dont konw where to find it easily... like, these are the sorts of things devs should think about coding into the client, so any n00b can do it easily
1133 2011-06-15 06:40:30 <min0r> gawker is doing their best make bitcoin look bad
1134 2011-06-15 06:40:33 <wumpus> hm I could add it to my ui
1135 2011-06-15 06:40:53 <Blitzboom> min0r: more like adrian chen
1136 2011-06-15 06:41:00 <Blitzboom> it was also him who wrote about silk road
1137 2011-06-15 06:41:04 <genewitch> who
1138 2011-06-15 06:41:04 <wumpus> min0r: can you propose a gui workflow here? https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=15276.msg221045#msg221045
1139 2011-06-15 06:41:25 <Blitzboom> we should start to make use of assassination markets perhaps
1140 2011-06-15 06:41:41 syke has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1141 2011-06-15 06:41:58 <genewitch> wut
1142 2011-06-15 06:42:19 osmosis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1143 2011-06-15 06:42:40 syke has joined
1144 2011-06-15 06:43:46 fbi has joined
1145 2011-06-15 06:43:48 <fbi> hi guis
1146 2011-06-15 06:43:51 <fbi> oops
1147 2011-06-15 06:43:55 fbi is now known as lufbitcoin
1148 2011-06-15 06:43:56 <lufbitcoin> my bad
1149 2011-06-15 06:44:05 <lufbitcoin> So what's goin on
1150 2011-06-15 06:44:20 Zefir has joined
1151 2011-06-15 06:45:13 <genewitch> lol irssi outed me
1152 2011-06-15 06:45:15 gsathya_ has joined
1153 2011-06-15 06:45:17 lufbitcoin has quit (Client Quit)
1154 2011-06-15 06:45:21 <wumpus> :/
1155 2011-06-15 06:45:32 <genewitch> i think i'm funny
1156 2011-06-15 06:45:42 <genewitch> and my mom said that's all that matters
1157 2011-06-15 06:45:44 underscor has joined
1158 2011-06-15 06:46:29 gsathya_ has quit (Client Quit)
1159 2011-06-15 06:47:06 gsathya_ has joined
1160 2011-06-15 06:47:28 gsathya_ is now known as gsathya
1161 2011-06-15 06:48:52 Lenovo_aaa has joined
1162 2011-06-15 06:49:16 <min0r> wumpus, sure... i actaully do UI design for some mobile apps
1163 2011-06-15 06:49:40 <min0r> ill see what i can do
1164 2011-06-15 06:49:55 <wumpus> ok great, because what we really need is people that participate instead of just throw ideas :)
1165 2011-06-15 06:50:06 Lenovo01 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1166 2011-06-15 06:55:01 Lenovo_aaa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1167 2011-06-15 06:55:07 cccp_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1168 2011-06-15 06:55:20 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1169 2011-06-15 06:55:20 <min0r> i imagine a dialog that would show all addresses in the wallet with a corresponding private key if the user wants to see them and print them out.... (of course, someone with access to the computer could just look at them unless its encrypted..... waiting until 0.3.24 is helpful since the wallet.dat will be encrypted by default)
1170 2011-06-15 06:55:47 <CIA-90> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r88119fa / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Accidently changed an error message - http://bit.ly/mfcRMR
1171 2011-06-15 06:57:58 Quetzalcoatl_ has joined
1172 2011-06-15 06:59:44 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1173 2011-06-15 07:00:00 alystair has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1174 2011-06-15 07:00:34 abragin has joined
1175 2011-06-15 07:00:34 abragin has quit (Changing host)
1176 2011-06-15 07:00:34 abragin has joined
1177 2011-06-15 07:02:00 nefario has joined
1178 2011-06-15 07:02:01 cronopio has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1179 2011-06-15 07:04:14 underscor has joined
1180 2011-06-15 07:09:20 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1181 2011-06-15 07:10:20 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1182 2011-06-15 07:11:51 underscor has joined
1183 2011-06-15 07:12:55 Nesetalis has joined
1184 2011-06-15 07:13:04 Neskia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1185 2011-06-15 07:17:17 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
1186 2011-06-15 07:17:22 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
1187 2011-06-15 07:20:20 syke has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1188 2011-06-15 07:20:50 Jefff has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1189 2011-06-15 07:20:59 Jefff has joined
1190 2011-06-15 07:21:05 B0g4r7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1191 2011-06-15 07:21:19 B0g4r7 has joined
1192 2011-06-15 07:23:37 Phoebus has joined
1193 2011-06-15 07:23:45 Raccoon has quit ()
1194 2011-06-15 07:24:44 Stellar has joined
1195 2011-06-15 07:25:03 B0g4r7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1196 2011-06-15 07:25:08 B0g4r7 has joined
1197 2011-06-15 07:26:15 HIKZIDprao_ has joined
1198 2011-06-15 07:26:47 HIKZIDprao has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1199 2011-06-15 07:27:25 ForceMajeure has quit ()
1200 2011-06-15 07:28:51 Raccoon has joined
1201 2011-06-15 07:29:27 <CIA-90> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * re295dd7 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Change how invalid kernel args is handled again - http://bit.ly/j50HUL
1202 2011-06-15 07:30:21 AStove has joined
1203 2011-06-15 07:30:53 <coderrr> uh oh, jon matonis callin jg out
1204 2011-06-15 07:32:48 <mtrlt> can i use multiple workers on one bitcoind when solo mining?
1205 2011-06-15 07:32:58 <mtrlt> just checkin' :p
1206 2011-06-15 07:33:22 <sturles> Of course.
1207 2011-06-15 07:33:37 <mtrlt> yea i'd assume so too.
1208 2011-06-15 07:33:42 <mtrlt> but you never know.
1209 2011-06-15 07:34:53 Raccoon has quit ()
1210 2011-06-15 07:35:28 cronopio has joined
1211 2011-06-15 07:35:49 <luke-jr> mtrlt: it's buggy
1212 2011-06-15 07:36:05 <luke-jr> mtrlt: likely you'll lose about 0.7%
1213 2011-06-15 07:36:10 <mtrlt> hmm
1214 2011-06-15 07:36:13 <mtrlt> what causes that?
1215 2011-06-15 07:36:22 <luke-jr> duplicate owrk
1216 2011-06-15 07:36:22 DD- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1217 2011-06-15 07:36:34 <luke-jr> mtrlt: it's fixed for Eligius ;)
1218 2011-06-15 07:36:35 <mtrlt> ah yea.
1219 2011-06-15 07:36:37 <mtrlt> :-P
1220 2011-06-15 07:37:39 <jgarzik> coderrr: he's a sillyhead.  I just hope matonis doesn't get a Falun Gong member killed one day.
1221 2011-06-15 07:38:12 KingFisher has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1222 2011-06-15 07:38:19 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1223 2011-06-15 07:39:49 slush2 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1224 2011-06-15 07:40:20 IO- has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1225 2011-06-15 07:40:39 zyb has joined
1226 2011-06-15 07:44:34 eoss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1227 2011-06-15 07:44:56 RazielZ has joined
1228 2011-06-15 07:47:41 <coderrr> namecoin almost 1/10th of btc
1229 2011-06-15 07:48:55 cuddlefi1h has joined
1230 2011-06-15 07:48:57 <coderrr> does this make anyone else feel like the 21mill btc cap is basically non existant if any new tweaked bitcoin clone can essnetially inflate the supply ad infinitum
1231 2011-06-15 07:48:59 <cuddlefi1h> what's in addr.dat?
1232 2011-06-15 07:49:16 <coderrr> cuddlefi1h, i think IPs of other nodes, not sure though
1233 2011-06-15 07:49:25 <iera> coderrr: no, why should we install that client?
1234 2011-06-15 07:49:27 <cuddlefi1h> ah, right
1235 2011-06-15 07:49:32 <cuddlefi1h> I remember now, thanks
1236 2011-06-15 07:49:33 cuddlefi1h has quit (Client Quit)
1237 2011-06-15 07:49:48 <coderrr> iera, i know but, if you look at the total worldwide market for bitcoin-like currencies
1238 2011-06-15 07:49:55 jstoner_ has joined
1239 2011-06-15 07:50:08 <coderrr> each new one will devalue all others, assuming it gains a similar exhcange value
1240 2011-06-15 07:50:25 <iera> yes but only if the new ones are used
1241 2011-06-15 07:50:31 <coderrr> right
1242 2011-06-15 07:50:33 <coderrr> and my example was namecoin
1243 2011-06-15 07:50:40 <coderrr> currently being valued at 1/10th of btc
1244 2011-06-15 07:50:45 <iera> namecoin serves another purpose, doesnt count really
1245 2011-06-15 07:50:52 <coderrr> it defintly counts
1246 2011-06-15 07:51:08 <coderrr> it holds value thru its btc<->nmc exchange site
1247 2011-06-15 07:51:10 kreal- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1248 2011-06-15 07:51:49 <coderrr> but maybe ur right, im just trying to iron out my thoughts on this
1249 2011-06-15 07:51:50 darbsllim has quit ()
1250 2011-06-15 07:54:20 espinet has quit (Quit: espinet)
1251 2011-06-15 07:55:13 Spyou has left ()
1252 2011-06-15 07:56:08 <sipa> coderrr: if you consider the possibility of an infinite number of separate chains, they together do not have any cap
1253 2011-06-15 07:56:21 <coderrr> yea thats what im talking about
1254 2011-06-15 07:56:24 kreal- has joined
1255 2011-06-15 07:56:38 larsivi has joined
1256 2011-06-15 07:56:40 <sipa> but nothing says an infinite number of chains will have non-zero value
1257 2011-06-15 07:56:51 <coderrr> yea but namecoin is starting to prove that at least more than 1 can
1258 2011-06-15 07:57:09 <sipa> i'm convinced a few is possible
1259 2011-06-15 07:58:32 <coderrr> yea are there any metal analogies, like a metal with extremely similar properties to gold, silver, platinum, or other valued metals, that never reached the same sort of value?
1260 2011-06-15 07:59:17 Lenovo01 has joined
1261 2011-06-15 07:59:37 <sipa> as long as they all have some advantages over all others, it's viable, i think
1262 2011-06-15 07:59:51 <sipa> not sure what those would be, though
1263 2011-06-15 08:00:07 tandy80_ has joined
1264 2011-06-15 08:01:35 <coderrr> it'd be quite interesting to see what would happen if someone created an exact bitcoin clone, just using a differnet port and initial block or wahtever, and tried to bootstrap it by marekting to ppl who "missed the bitcoin goldrush"
1265 2011-06-15 08:01:39 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1266 2011-06-15 08:02:12 <sipa> that exists
1267 2011-06-15 08:02:16 <sipa> it's called the testnet
1268 2011-06-15 08:02:34 <sipa> and at one point in time testnet coins were actually traded for bitcoins
1269 2011-06-15 08:02:40 <coderrr> haha oh really ?
1270 2011-06-15 08:02:45 <coderrr> i didntknow ppl ever traded them
1271 2011-06-15 08:02:47 <sipa> (like 10k tnBTC for 3 BTC)
1272 2011-06-15 08:02:55 <coderrr> interesting
1273 2011-06-15 08:02:56 <sipa> that was before the reset
1274 2011-06-15 08:03:13 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1275 2011-06-15 08:03:25 <coderrr> yea i dunno if a testnet counts as a valid example
1276 2011-06-15 08:03:28 <Joric> https://testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com/ - 5 testnets free
1277 2011-06-15 08:03:39 <Joric> why even buy them
1278 2011-06-15 08:04:26 <sipa> Joric: they were hard to get back then
1279 2011-06-15 08:04:36 B0g4r7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1280 2011-06-15 08:04:56 kreal- has quit (Quit: leaving)
1281 2011-06-15 08:05:00 xfactor__ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1282 2011-06-15 08:05:23 B0g4r7 has joined
1283 2011-06-15 08:05:34 <sipa> coderrr: it's obvious that it will be easier in your alternative chain to mine
1284 2011-06-15 08:05:51 <sipa> but the problem is: why would anyone ever assume it would become tradable at a useful rate?
1285 2011-06-15 08:05:58 xfactor__ has joined
1286 2011-06-15 08:06:27 <coderrr> yea i guess thast what it just comes down to, the psychology of that question
1287 2011-06-15 08:06:29 <sipa> anyone accepting them can with the same amount of effort also accept normal btc
1288 2011-06-15 08:07:03 <sipa> which will at least initally be significantly more useful
1289 2011-06-15 08:07:31 xfactor has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1290 2011-06-15 08:09:13 <jgarzik> sure an infinite number of chains is possible, but the network effect pushes people to the big and more secure ones
1291 2011-06-15 08:09:43 Blitzboom has joined
1292 2011-06-15 08:09:54 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
1293 2011-06-15 08:09:54 Blitzboom has joined
1294 2011-06-15 08:12:05 <sipa> Joric: exactly
1295 2011-06-15 08:12:07 <sipa> ow
1296 2011-06-15 08:12:10 <sipa> jgarzik: exactly
1297 2011-06-15 08:13:24 Zefir has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1298 2011-06-15 08:13:39 btc4beer has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1299 2011-06-15 08:14:10 IO- has joined
1300 2011-06-15 08:14:10 espinet has joined
1301 2011-06-15 08:14:39 HIKZIDprao_ has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
1302 2011-06-15 08:14:57 espinet has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1303 2011-06-15 08:15:40 doublec has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1304 2011-06-15 08:16:37 Lenovo_aaa has joined
1305 2011-06-15 08:17:37 doublec has joined
1306 2011-06-15 08:17:47 Lenovo01 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1307 2011-06-15 08:18:26 yebyen has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1308 2011-06-15 08:18:36 yebyen has joined
1309 2011-06-15 08:19:20 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1310 2011-06-15 08:24:25 manveru has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1311 2011-06-15 08:24:51 manveru has joined
1312 2011-06-15 08:25:56 <Gekz> so that's new bitcoin proposal
1313 2011-06-15 08:26:09 <Gekz> did they consider the high chance of uncontrollable hyperinflation?
1314 2011-06-15 08:26:53 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1315 2011-06-15 08:28:35 <kratosk> I agree... accepting any chain is weaksauce
1316 2011-06-15 08:29:07 <mtrlt> yep there are major problems with it.
1317 2011-06-15 08:29:21 <mtrlt> the issues it identifies are real but the proposed solutions are imaginary :p
1318 2011-06-15 08:29:22 <sipa> not really problems, it just won't get accepted
1319 2011-06-15 08:29:44 <sipa> at least, not many chains will be economically useful
1320 2011-06-15 08:30:11 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1321 2011-06-15 08:40:24 Zefir has joined
1322 2011-06-15 08:41:14 cenuij has joined
1323 2011-06-15 08:41:14 cenuij has quit (Changing host)
1324 2011-06-15 08:41:14 cenuij has joined
1325 2011-06-15 08:42:10 <sacarlson> jgarzik: or maybe most secure and most stable valued ones?  As I see vendors have a hard time with a currency that changes value by 50% in a day
1326 2011-06-15 08:42:20 AB3Ham has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1327 2011-06-15 08:42:57 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1328 2011-06-15 08:43:12 Stellar has joined
1329 2011-06-15 08:43:50 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1330 2011-06-15 08:44:03 Orborde has joined
1331 2011-06-15 08:44:59 lumos has joined
1332 2011-06-15 08:45:40 slush has joined
1333 2011-06-15 08:47:50 d4de has joined
1334 2011-06-15 08:48:30 kreal- has joined
1335 2011-06-15 08:48:47 <Orborde> What does the Bitcoin client use IRC for?
1336 2011-06-15 08:48:55 <min0r> bitcoin needs price stability to gain market adoption
1337 2011-06-15 08:48:59 <min0r> just like fiat currencies
1338 2011-06-15 08:49:08 T_X has joined
1339 2011-06-15 08:49:15 <min0r> is namecoin a bitcoin clone? can i mine namecoins?
1340 2011-06-15 08:49:29 <thallium205> haha
1341 2011-06-15 08:49:46 <sacarlson> by the way the BeerTokens chain is now planed to have pre-minted 29 Billion tokens to match that seen for Paypal float
1342 2011-06-15 08:50:48 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1343 2011-06-15 08:51:12 <sipa> and who gets these tokens?
1344 2011-06-15 08:51:31 <sacarlson> sipa: the trust holders
1345 2011-06-15 08:51:56 <topi`> sacarlson: is that Belgian beer or German beer? :)
1346 2011-06-15 08:52:40 <sacarlson> topi: at present it's Thai beer Leo Beer
1347 2011-06-15 08:52:50 <sacarlson> topi http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9493.0
1348 2011-06-15 08:53:57 <sacarlson> topi but other beers have been suggested like Hienikin
1349 2011-06-15 08:54:11 <sipa> please
1350 2011-06-15 08:54:18 <sipa> that's not beer ;)
1351 2011-06-15 08:54:47 legion050 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1352 2011-06-15 08:55:23 <edcba> Orborde: get IPs to connect to
1353 2011-06-15 08:57:35 gjs278 has joined
1354 2011-06-15 08:58:19 underscor has joined
1355 2011-06-15 08:58:48 Raccoon has joined
1356 2011-06-15 08:58:59 <ersi> Orborde: It's what we call "Bootstrapping"
1357 2011-06-15 08:59:50 <sacarlson> but I see BeerTokens or whatever you want to call the new currency symbiotic both benifitting each other by the using the bitcoin as a secure asset base and Beertokens will auto stabalize the price
1358 2011-06-15 09:00:35 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1359 2011-06-15 09:00:59 <Joric> if deepbit will be closed (~40% of blocks currently) does it mean transactions would be pretty much slowed down?
1360 2011-06-15 09:01:18 <coderrr> Joric, yup
1361 2011-06-15 09:01:21 <jgarzik> Joric: no
1362 2011-06-15 09:01:34 <coderrr> well, verifications would
1363 2011-06-15 09:01:35 <coderrr> right ?
1364 2011-06-15 09:01:37 <Joric> why no
1365 2011-06-15 09:01:57 <jgarzik> miners jump to another pool as soon as they lose connectivity
1366 2011-06-15 09:01:57 <coderrr> ull still see the transaction show up pretty much immediately
1367 2011-06-15 09:01:59 <Diablo-D3> your mom wouldnt slow down
1368 2011-06-15 09:02:00 <Diablo-D3> thats for sure
1369 2011-06-15 09:02:03 <coderrr> ah ic
1370 2011-06-15 09:02:13 <Joric> will difficulty go down?
1371 2011-06-15 09:02:18 <jgarzik> miners are not going to idle their machines for hours, waiting for deepbit to return
1372 2011-06-15 09:02:43 <jgarzik> it's just a simple change of HTTP endpoint -- which is automatic if you use the 'flexible mining proxy', pushpool or https://github.com/kylegibson/poclbm
1373 2011-06-15 09:02:46 <coderrr> but if the miners are out at strip clubs spending their btc
1374 2011-06-15 09:02:54 luke-jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1375 2011-06-15 09:03:00 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1376 2011-06-15 09:03:03 <jgarzik> Joric: no
1377 2011-06-15 09:03:09 <sacarlson> jgarzik: ya in fact that might be the best time to make profit as a minner to pop back online as soon as they saw a failure
1378 2011-06-15 09:03:17 Lenovo_aaa has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1379 2011-06-15 09:03:29 gjs278 has joined
1380 2011-06-15 09:03:34 <jgarzik> sacarlson: that's why we have software that automatically switches pools upon failure :)
1381 2011-06-15 09:03:38 <jgarzik> to do otherwise costs money
1382 2011-06-15 09:04:02 * jgarzik wonders if Diablo-D3 has implemented pool failure detection and switching yet?  :)
1383 2011-06-15 09:04:13 <sacarlson> jgarzik: good idea
1384 2011-06-15 09:04:36 <Diablo-D3> sigh
1385 2011-06-15 09:04:42 <Diablo-D3> I should just to shut you fuckers up
1386 2011-06-15 09:04:50 luke-jr has quit (otg!~luke-jr@2001:470:5:265:222:4dff:fe50:4c49|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1387 2011-06-15 09:05:08 <topi`> fuckers are a part of life. get over it.
1388 2011-06-15 09:05:21 <Joric> jgarzik, is difficulty even able to go down? i mean by design
1389 2011-06-15 09:05:38 <gjs278> yes
1390 2011-06-15 09:05:41 <gjs278> it has before even
1391 2011-06-15 09:05:42 <Diablo-D3> topi`: dude, I will crowbar you
1392 2011-06-15 09:05:59 Wuked has joined
1393 2011-06-15 09:06:00 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1394 2011-06-15 09:06:06 <jgarzik> Joric: yes
1395 2011-06-15 09:06:12 <topi`> gjs278: was the last time when the Mystery miner went offline?
1396 2011-06-15 09:06:23 <gjs278> I think so
1397 2011-06-15 09:06:28 <topi`> or probably a botnet
1398 2011-06-15 09:06:52 <Joric> well it's good, who knows maybe after the nuclear apocalypse we'll get steam-powered computers
1399 2011-06-15 09:06:59 <gjs278> taking otc off of autojoin until I figure out how to auto auth
1400 2011-06-15 09:07:14 <gjs278> no one trades there now anyways
1401 2011-06-15 09:12:03 <topi`> how do they trade, then?
1402 2011-06-15 09:15:02 <eps> ;;bc,stats
1403 2011-06-15 09:15:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 130982 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 57 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 hours, 32 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 870533.97003353
1404 2011-06-15 09:15:12 TheAncientGoat has joined
1405 2011-06-15 09:16:50 Danubulo has joined
1406 2011-06-15 09:18:32 <Joric> how many hashes i should try to get a share? tried 1363559830 hashes so far didn't get a single share accepted
1407 2011-06-15 09:18:40 Incitatus has joined
1408 2011-06-15 09:19:00 spirals has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1409 2011-06-15 09:19:31 spirals has joined
1410 2011-06-15 09:19:40 <Joric> i mean, at average
1411 2011-06-15 09:20:43 <ersi> What do you mean "try to get"?
1412 2011-06-15 09:20:54 <ersi> Are you hashing manually or something? That'd be crazy
1413 2011-06-15 09:21:03 <Joric> trying to write a miner
1414 2011-06-15 09:21:07 BlueMattBot has joined
1415 2011-06-15 09:21:07 <ersi> Ah
1416 2011-06-15 09:21:14 <ersi> Well, fuck the average. Pump on?
1417 2011-06-15 09:21:42 <Joric> what pump
1418 2011-06-15 09:22:42 <vegard> Joric: on average you would need to hash about 3 times more than that to get a share
1419 2011-06-15 09:24:09 <vegard> a share means that the first 32 bits of the hash are all 0 (the lowest difficulty, difficulty 1)
1420 2011-06-15 09:24:50 <vegard> if you assume that the hash is pseudorandom, this has a probability 2^32 of happening if you try random inputs
1421 2011-06-15 09:24:53 Danubulo has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1422 2011-06-15 09:25:03 luke-jr has joined
1423 2011-06-15 09:25:28 luke-jr has joined
1424 2011-06-15 09:25:46 <vegard> so when you've hashed 2^32 random inputs you get that the expected number of shares is 1
1425 2011-06-15 09:26:05 Danubulo has joined
1426 2011-06-15 09:26:14 OneFixt has quit ()
1427 2011-06-15 09:26:20 <Danubulo> hi. my client always is crashing (tested with 0.3.21 and 0.3.23) when getting the block 00000000000003d69f78 (129792 in block explorer). The next line in the log is REORGANIZE then it shuts down. in db.log there is "page 1348004960: illegal page type or format; PANIC: Das Argument ist ungültig; PANIC: fatal region error detected; run recovery" [Das Argument ist ungültig=invalid argument]. Any Idea what I can do about it?
1428 2011-06-15 09:26:21 <Joric> thanks, it's all very clear now
1429 2011-06-15 09:28:09 underscor has joined
1430 2011-06-15 09:30:33 <sipa> Danubulo: looks like a database corruption
1431 2011-06-15 09:31:59 <Danubulo> how can i rebuild the database?
1432 2011-06-15 09:32:16 <Danubulo> i already tried -rescan
1433 2011-06-15 09:32:33 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1434 2011-06-15 09:32:46 DD- has joined
1435 2011-06-15 09:33:13 <sipa> you can remove all files except wallet.dat, and let them redownload
1436 2011-06-15 09:34:04 <gjs278> wow I think my ssd just died
1437 2011-06-15 09:34:04 <Danubulo> ok, i'm going to try that. thanks
1438 2011-06-15 09:34:13 <gjs278> I can't write anything
1439 2011-06-15 09:34:17 <gjs278> I can only read /
1440 2011-06-15 09:35:21 <gjs278> welp, time to restart and hope for the best
1441 2011-06-15 09:35:21 OneFixt has joined
1442 2011-06-15 09:35:35 OneFixt has quit (Changing host)
1443 2011-06-15 09:35:35 OneFixt has joined
1444 2011-06-15 09:36:02 TommyBoy3G has quit ()
1445 2011-06-15 09:36:25 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1446 2011-06-15 09:36:30 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1447 2011-06-15 09:36:54 Dagger2 has quit (Quit: Quitting)
1448 2011-06-15 09:36:59 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1449 2011-06-15 09:37:03 <JFK911> ;;bc,stats
1450 2011-06-15 09:37:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 130986 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 53 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 hours, 9 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 870836.65701705
1451 2011-06-15 09:37:05 JRWR has joined
1452 2011-06-15 09:37:06 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
1453 2011-06-15 09:37:06 JRWR has joined
1454 2011-06-15 09:37:48 Dagger3 has joined
1455 2011-06-15 09:42:06 BladeMcCool has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1456 2011-06-15 09:43:33 gjs278 has joined
1457 2011-06-15 09:43:36 germanMNY has joined
1458 2011-06-15 09:44:06 <gjs278> nevermind, just a very poorly timed xfs backup
1459 2011-06-15 09:44:40 TommyBoy3G has joined
1460 2011-06-15 09:46:16 jivvz has joined
1461 2011-06-15 09:47:20 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1462 2011-06-15 09:51:56 jaybny has joined
1463 2011-06-15 09:53:25 johnnympereira5 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1464 2011-06-15 09:53:47 johnnympereira5 has joined
1465 2011-06-15 09:56:18 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1466 2011-06-15 09:59:30 Blitzboom has joined
1467 2011-06-15 09:59:31 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
1468 2011-06-15 09:59:31 Blitzboom has joined
1469 2011-06-15 10:02:32 WarDekar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1470 2011-06-15 10:04:38 dvide_ has quit ()
1471 2011-06-15 10:04:41 <molecular> "error: The requested URL returned error: 403 while accessing https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git/info/refs" <- help
1472 2011-06-15 10:04:54 <sipa> jgarzik: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/builds/0.3.23/
1473 2011-06-15 10:05:14 lumos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1474 2011-06-15 10:05:41 <molecular> what's with the git repo? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
1475 2011-06-15 10:06:07 unclemantis has joined
1476 2011-06-15 10:06:08 <molecular> am getting 403 forbidden
1477 2011-06-15 10:06:35 <Joric> jgarzik, pyminer.py did not work on win32 because of a restriction on global variables (settings, KeyError: 'host') here is a patch http://paste.pocoo.org/show/408060/
1478 2011-06-15 10:07:51 <jgarzik> Joric: try 'global'
1479 2011-06-15 10:08:01 <Joric> okay )
1480 2011-06-15 10:08:16 <jgarzik> molecular: try git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
1481 2011-06-15 10:08:39 <jgarzik> sipa: cool.  will grab after sleep.  thanks!
1482 2011-06-15 10:08:54 <jgarzik> sipa: gonna push the wallet code movement thing today, do you think?
1483 2011-06-15 10:09:22 <molecular> jgarzik, that worx, thanks
1484 2011-06-15 10:10:26 <molecular> jgarzik, does jgarzik/bitcoin.git include key import/export?
1485 2011-06-15 10:11:09 <jgarzik> molecular: no.  look through https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls
1486 2011-06-15 10:12:14 nutcase has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1487 2011-06-15 10:12:56 unclemantis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1488 2011-06-15 10:13:00 <molecular> hmmm, I need something future-proof so I can give someone a qrcode key for present... what should I use?
1489 2011-06-15 10:13:05 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1490 2011-06-15 10:13:12 BlueMattBot has joined
1491 2011-06-15 10:13:59 nutcase has joined
1492 2011-06-15 10:14:02 <molecular> can I assume this will get pulled? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/220
1493 2011-06-15 10:14:09 <molecular> "Wallet and key import and export"
1494 2011-06-15 10:14:47 <Joric> jgarzik, just tried global, won't work "Since Windows lacks os.fork() it has a few extra restrictions: (...) Global variables"
1495 2011-06-15 10:15:46 <jgarzik> molecular: probably
1496 2011-06-15 10:18:20 krekbwoy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1497 2011-06-15 10:19:06 Klash_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1498 2011-06-15 10:19:16 Kurtov has joined
1499 2011-06-15 10:19:46 underscor has joined
1500 2011-06-15 10:20:09 krekbwoy has joined
1501 2011-06-15 10:20:24 <Joric> forgot to add (self) to scantime/hashmeter
1502 2011-06-15 10:22:58 Backburn has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1503 2011-06-15 10:23:40 Backburn has joined
1504 2011-06-15 10:24:16 Guest48654 has joined
1505 2011-06-15 10:24:38 <Wuked> Is this problem fixed in the latest version or not ?
1506 2011-06-15 10:24:39 <Wuked> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14483.40
1507 2011-06-15 10:25:46 <molecular> I'm just too stpid it seem. How can I pull this into my local repo?: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/220
1508 2011-06-15 10:27:31 directhex has left ("Leaving")
1509 2011-06-15 10:30:07 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
1510 2011-06-15 10:30:46 <sipa> Wuked: which problem exactly (don't feel like reading the whole thread)?
1511 2011-06-15 10:31:01 <Wuked> the problem with duplicates
1512 2011-06-15 10:31:01 pierce has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1513 2011-06-15 10:31:10 <Wuked> lots of duplicate work
1514 2011-06-15 10:31:14 <Wuked> being handed out
1515 2011-06-15 10:31:37 <Wuked> "The problem lies in poclbm's support for X-Roll-NTime"
1516 2011-06-15 10:32:40 pierce has joined
1517 2011-06-15 10:33:40 Orborde has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1518 2011-06-15 10:33:56 <ersi> Wuked: AFAIK it's not fixed in pushpoold/bitcoin. Only at that pool
1519 2011-06-15 10:34:26 <Wuked> O.K
1520 2011-06-15 10:34:31 <Wuked> well it's looking better
1521 2011-06-15 10:34:40 <Wuked> my test pool had almost 10% duff blocks before
1522 2011-06-15 10:34:46 <Wuked> on the old version of bitcoin
1523 2011-06-15 10:34:54 Lenovo01 has joined
1524 2011-06-15 10:34:55 lumos has joined
1525 2011-06-15 10:35:50 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1526 2011-06-15 10:36:38 <ersi> Wuked: Oops, I hadn't been staying alert on the topic. Seems like something should have made it into pushpool/bitcoin :)
1527 2011-06-15 10:38:32 B0g4r7_ has joined
1528 2011-06-15 10:39:52 d1234 has joined
1529 2011-06-15 10:39:56 <Wuked> it looks like it yeah
1530 2011-06-15 10:40:05 <Wuked> although no one seems to be able to get PP 0.5 working
1531 2011-06-15 10:40:13 <Wuked> so who knows :)
1532 2011-06-15 10:41:10 vokoda has joined
1533 2011-06-15 10:41:28 * molecular might become friends with git after all (just required some guidance from poeple in #git to pull sipa:showwallet)
1534 2011-06-15 10:41:54 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1535 2011-06-15 10:41:55 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
1536 2011-06-15 10:42:00 <sipa> molecular: did it merge fine?
1537 2011-06-15 10:42:23 <molecular> nope, main.h conflicted. but easy resolve (I hope)
1538 2011-06-15 10:42:42 <molecular> compiling, will test wether I screwed up the conflict resolving
1539 2011-06-15 10:43:38 <sipa> jgarzik: currently testing walletclass (both commits) myself
1540 2011-06-15 10:44:05 <molecular> int ScanForWalletTransactions(CBlockIndex* pindexStart);
1541 2011-06-15 10:44:05 <molecular> int ScanForWalletTransaction(const uint256& hashTx);
1542 2011-06-15 10:44:28 <molecular> ^ I just used sipa's version here.
1543 2011-06-15 10:45:35 * molecular just noticed this wont work that easil
1544 2011-06-15 10:45:36 <molecular> y
1545 2011-06-15 10:45:49 <ius> ersi: It was merged, last commit before 0.5 tag
1546 2011-06-15 10:45:57 <ius> Wuked: Could debug it in here ;)
1547 2011-06-15 10:45:59 <sipa> molecular: are you merging it with git master?
1548 2011-06-15 10:46:15 QDef has joined
1549 2011-06-15 10:46:56 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
1550 2011-06-15 10:47:02 <molecular> sipa: yes
1551 2011-06-15 10:47:12 <ersi> ius: yea read up on it just now:]
1552 2011-06-15 10:47:21 nefario has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1553 2011-06-15 10:47:42 * molecular will have to verify "master" builds ok... some lexical_cast boost probs in rpc.cpp
1554 2011-06-15 10:48:18 johnnympereira5 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1555 2011-06-15 10:48:47 nefario has joined
1556 2011-06-15 10:48:50 <sipa> molecular: i'll rebase it
1557 2011-06-15 10:49:21 <molecular> nice!
1558 2011-06-15 10:49:31 <Wuked> might be a better plan ius :)
1559 2011-06-15 10:50:06 <molecular> another question: can I make a tx to an address and make it redeemable only after a certain date (theoretically, that is, using "forth-like scripting language")?
1560 2011-06-15 10:50:07 gjs278 has joined
1561 2011-06-15 10:50:28 <sipa> molecular: transactions have a locktime
1562 2011-06-15 10:50:42 <sipa> it's not really implemented though, i think
1563 2011-06-15 10:51:16 <molecular> so the locktime is not honored.. even if it was, with a modified client I could redeem it earlier?
1564 2011-06-15 10:52:42 <molecular> or would the network not accept the tx to spend it if locktime is not reached (if it _was_ implemented)?
1565 2011-06-15 10:53:22 <sipa> it is honored
1566 2011-06-15 10:53:51 <molecular> So I could set it (with modded client) on a tx I make and the balance would not update on receiving end until locktime is reached?
1567 2011-06-15 10:54:25 <sipa> i think so
1568 2011-06-15 10:54:31 <sipa> but this may be very untested :)
1569 2011-06-15 10:55:07 <molecular> that's kind of cool... so I could give my friend 1 BTC present he could only cash in on -say- his next birthday ;)
1570 2011-06-15 10:55:21 <molecular> to avoid him spending prematurely
1571 2011-06-15 10:56:25 <molecular> sipa... that rebase will take a while?
1572 2011-06-15 10:57:00 <upb> isnt the locktime actually time till commit?
1573 2011-06-15 10:58:05 <sipa> molecular: no, finished, but i screwed up gitting :)
1574 2011-06-15 10:58:59 <sipa> molecular: done
1575 2011-06-15 10:59:10 <molecular> cool
1576 2011-06-15 10:59:33 <sipa> (only tested that it compiles)
1577 2011-06-15 10:59:45 grug has quit (Quit: leaving)
1578 2011-06-15 11:00:42 m00p has joined
1579 2011-06-15 11:00:54 m00p has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1580 2011-06-15 11:05:21 grug has joined
1581 2011-06-15 11:07:43 TD has joined
1582 2011-06-15 11:07:52 TD has quit (Client Quit)
1583 2011-06-15 11:16:33 Kolky has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1584 2011-06-15 11:16:38 K0lky has joined
1585 2011-06-15 11:17:30 knotwork has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1586 2011-06-15 11:17:31 NickelBot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1587 2011-06-15 11:18:30 knotwork has joined
1588 2011-06-15 11:18:59 <molecular> sipa:showwallet: merges fine into master and compiles fine... will test a little now, especially the new rpc calls. thanks for rebasing ;)
1589 2011-06-15 11:19:22 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
1590 2011-06-15 11:20:16 Guest48654 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1591 2011-06-15 11:21:11 wiedi has joined
1592 2011-06-15 11:21:55 QDef has left ()
1593 2011-06-15 11:21:58 Danubulo has quit (Quit: leaving)
1594 2011-06-15 11:23:26 Speeder has joined
1595 2011-06-15 11:25:33 JFK911 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1596 2011-06-15 11:25:39 JFK911 has joined
1597 2011-06-15 11:26:17 pRjck3vC has joined
1598 2011-06-15 11:26:56 NickelBot has joined
1599 2011-06-15 11:31:06 lumos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1600 2011-06-15 11:35:43 <ius> Wuked: Try applying this gem: https://github.com/ius/pushpool/commit/ed8c92b26dfe7d2845e872a773813237ac49e32f
1601 2011-06-15 11:37:34 <ius> jgarzik: Nasty regression in the 0.5 pushpool release (see github) ;(
1602 2011-06-15 11:38:27 Lenovo01 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1603 2011-06-15 11:38:39 Lenovo01 has joined
1604 2011-06-15 11:38:53 [DusT] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1605 2011-06-15 11:42:00 <Wuked> nice find
1606 2011-06-15 11:44:09 <davex__> ;;bc,stats
1607 2011-06-15 11:44:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 131015 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 24 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 19 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 874941.19329964
1608 2011-06-15 11:51:00 Nicksasa is now known as Sleep!~Nicksasa@178-117-211-223.access.telenet.be|Nicksasa
1609 2011-06-15 11:57:55 [DusT] has joined
1610 2011-06-15 11:59:11 albert has joined
1611 2011-06-15 11:59:21 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1612 2011-06-15 11:59:27 albert is now known as Guest84894
1613 2011-06-15 12:00:14 LameArse has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1614 2011-06-15 12:02:50 djoot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1615 2011-06-15 12:03:28 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1616 2011-06-15 12:07:07 _dr has joined
1617 2011-06-15 12:08:42 diki has joined
1618 2011-06-15 12:09:13 * diki was finally fucked over by paypal
1619 2011-06-15 12:09:27 pRjck3vC has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1620 2011-06-15 12:09:29 * diki owes 428Usd
1621 2011-06-15 12:09:47 pRjck3vC has joined
1622 2011-06-15 12:10:41 <sturles> diki: What happened?
1623 2011-06-15 12:11:13 <diki> lousy chargeback
1624 2011-06-15 12:11:26 <diki> 465 dollars
1625 2011-06-15 12:11:28 <Joric> i thought they just hate bitcoins
1626 2011-06-15 12:11:45 <diki> bitcoin was never mentioned
1627 2011-06-15 12:11:50 <sturles> Right.  Will PayPal be able to get the money?
1628 2011-06-15 12:11:53 <diki> in any tx
1629 2011-06-15 12:15:25 joeyjamjimbo has joined
1630 2011-06-15 12:20:20 mu-b has joined
1631 2011-06-15 12:20:33 llama has quit (Quit: llama)
1632 2011-06-15 12:20:34 Akinava has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1633 2011-06-15 12:20:38 Leo_II has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1634 2011-06-15 12:21:19 Leo_II has joined
1635 2011-06-15 12:21:56 sav- has joined
1636 2011-06-15 12:22:39 sav has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1637 2011-06-15 12:22:54 datagutt has joined
1638 2011-06-15 12:22:54 datagutt has quit (Changing host)
1639 2011-06-15 12:22:54 datagutt has joined
1640 2011-06-15 12:23:18 lumos has joined
1641 2011-06-15 12:24:19 Stellar has joined
1642 2011-06-15 12:25:47 RBecker has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1643 2011-06-15 12:25:57 wood_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1644 2011-06-15 12:26:43 djoot has joined
1645 2011-06-15 12:27:17 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1646 2011-06-15 12:28:24 RBecker has joined
1647 2011-06-15 12:28:48 wood_ has joined
1648 2011-06-15 12:29:01 JRWR has quit ()
1649 2011-06-15 12:29:08 AnAdorableNick has joined
1650 2011-06-15 12:31:04 Lis has joined
1651 2011-06-15 12:31:18 Netsniper has joined
1652 2011-06-15 12:32:09 GOP-USA_dotcom has joined
1653 2011-06-15 12:33:21 hachque_ has joined
1654 2011-06-15 12:35:17 hachque__ has joined
1655 2011-06-15 12:35:26 hachque has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1656 2011-06-15 12:36:34 hachque__ is now known as hachque
1657 2011-06-15 12:38:21 hachque_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1658 2011-06-15 12:40:26 kish has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1659 2011-06-15 12:40:51 kish has joined
1660 2011-06-15 12:41:25 kluge has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1661 2011-06-15 12:41:32 pensan has joined
1662 2011-06-15 12:44:05 <sacarlson> I saw molecular asking about the scripting language.  is there any new examples in anyones git that examples of fully using a new script like a simple escrow?
1663 2011-06-15 12:44:18  has joined
1664 2011-06-15 12:46:29 ajf has quit (offline!~ajf@78.129.159.151|Read error: Operation timed out)
1665 2011-06-15 12:47:13 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1666 2011-06-15 12:48:35 shawn-p has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1667 2011-06-15 12:49:36 ar4s has joined
1668 2011-06-15 12:50:02 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
1669 2011-06-15 12:50:47 ajf has joined
1670 2011-06-15 12:52:04 repl has joined
1671 2011-06-15 12:54:18 shawn-p has joined
1672 2011-06-15 12:54:22 repl has quit (Client Quit)
1673 2011-06-15 12:54:33 repl has joined
1674 2011-06-15 12:56:21 agricocb has joined
1675 2011-06-15 12:57:09 <d1234> ;;bc,stats
1676 2011-06-15 12:57:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 131029 | Current Difficulty: 567358.22457067 | Next Difficulty At Block: 131039 | Next Difficulty In: 10 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 58 minutes and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 876025.89970153
1677 2011-06-15 12:57:50 sipa has left ()
1678 2011-06-15 12:57:53 red_dawn_ has joined
1679 2011-06-15 12:58:40 glassresistor has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1680 2011-06-15 12:58:51 kish has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1681 2011-06-15 12:59:20 pensan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1682 2011-06-15 12:59:54 pRjck3vC has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1683 2011-06-15 12:59:56 blueadept has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1684 2011-06-15 13:00:21 pRjck3vC has joined
1685 2011-06-15 13:00:58 kish has joined
1686 2011-06-15 13:04:05 cryptocnt has joined
1687 2011-06-15 13:04:07 ffrefe has joined
1688 2011-06-15 13:04:14 pensan has joined
1689 2011-06-15 13:05:16 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1690 2011-06-15 13:09:41 pensan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1691 2011-06-15 13:11:26 normanrichards has joined
1692 2011-06-15 13:12:36 Lis is now known as Akinava
1693 2011-06-15 13:15:01 kish has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1694 2011-06-15 13:17:09 mmyjona has joined
1695 2011-06-15 13:18:04 tandy80_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1696 2011-06-15 13:19:00 kermit has joined
1697 2011-06-15 13:21:09 flok has joined
1698 2011-06-15 13:21:55 md2k7 has joined
1699 2011-06-15 13:22:53 germanMNY has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1700 2011-06-15 13:23:00 lessPlastic has joined
1701 2011-06-15 13:24:01 kish has joined
1702 2011-06-15 13:25:30 simkiss has joined
1703 2011-06-15 13:25:52 ericmock has quit (Quit: ericmock)
1704 2011-06-15 13:27:51 Lenovo_aaa has joined
1705 2011-06-15 13:27:55 lessPlastic has quit (Client Quit)
1706 2011-06-15 13:29:18 Lenovo01 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1707 2011-06-15 13:32:38 kluge has joined
1708 2011-06-15 13:34:07 El-Loco has joined
1709 2011-06-15 13:35:50 mmyjona has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1710 2011-06-15 13:36:55 mmyjona has joined
1711 2011-06-15 13:40:01 RenaKunisaki has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1712 2011-06-15 13:40:35 RenaKunisaki has joined
1713 2011-06-15 13:41:24  is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-240-203-219.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
1714 2011-06-15 13:41:29 johnnympereira5 has joined
1715 2011-06-15 13:41:36 thallium205 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1716 2011-06-15 13:41:45 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1717 2011-06-15 13:42:27 swedchamp has joined
1718 2011-06-15 13:43:03 dominiqu1 has joined
1719 2011-06-15 13:43:07 <swedchamp> im looking for a developer for a open source chess server?
1720 2011-06-15 13:44:58 <swedchamp> anyone here?
1721 2011-06-15 13:45:28 <jeremias> lol why are you asking here
1722 2011-06-15 13:45:33 <jeremias> this is "bitcoin-dev
1723 2011-06-15 13:45:39 <swedchamp> yes?
1724 2011-06-15 13:45:41 <jeremias> or are you paying salary with bitcoins?
1725 2011-06-15 13:46:01 <swedchamp> my domain is called www.bitcoinchess.com
1726 2011-06-15 13:46:06 <jeremias> all right
1727 2011-06-15 13:46:10 <swedchamp> thats why im here
1728 2011-06-15 13:46:12 ffrefe has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1729 2011-06-15 13:46:18 erle- has joined
1730 2011-06-15 13:46:25 <jeremias> so you need a developer
1731 2011-06-15 13:46:31 <swedchamp> yes
1732 2011-06-15 13:46:38 <jeremias> what language/tools
1733 2011-06-15 13:46:52 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1734 2011-06-15 13:46:55 <swedchamp> someone who knows open source chess servers
1735 2011-06-15 13:46:55 <jeremias> what business model
1736 2011-06-15 13:46:56 <jeremias> etc
1737 2011-06-15 13:47:12 <swedchamp> need some modifying
1738 2011-06-15 13:47:22 <jeremias> well... i suggest that you should research the topic yourself first
1739 2011-06-15 13:47:29 <jeremias> developers are hard to find nowadays
1740 2011-06-15 13:47:41 <swedchamp> business model for site is that you can bet bitcoins on your own game vs opponent
1741 2011-06-15 13:47:51 <jeremias> if you have more specific needs, you can perhaps post a job somewhere
1742 2011-06-15 13:48:11 <swedchamp> i joined the forum but i cant post there
1743 2011-06-15 13:48:16 mithridates has joined
1744 2011-06-15 13:48:16 ericmock has joined
1745 2011-06-15 13:48:43 <swedchamp> do you know any developers that can handle a open source chess project
1746 2011-06-15 13:49:48 <jeremias> sorry, no
1747 2011-06-15 13:49:56 <jeremias> all the developers I know are very busy
1748 2011-06-15 13:50:10 <swedchamp> oki
1749 2011-06-15 13:50:10 <_dr> writing bitcoin trojans
1750 2011-06-15 13:50:38 <jeremias> there are plenty of "bitcoin jobs" sites
1751 2011-06-15 13:50:48 <jeremias> you can try posting your project there
1752 2011-06-15 13:51:01 <swedchamp> oki
1753 2011-06-15 13:51:15 <swedchamp> thx
1754 2011-06-15 13:51:20 <swedchamp> bye
1755 2011-06-15 13:51:23 swedchamp has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1756 2011-06-15 13:51:36 altamic has joined
1757 2011-06-15 13:52:38 Lenovo_aaa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1758 2011-06-15 13:53:11 Lenovo01 has joined
1759 2011-06-15 13:54:20 Lenovo01 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1760 2011-06-15 13:55:30 takezo420 has joined
1761 2011-06-15 13:56:02 Lenovo01 has joined
1762 2011-06-15 13:56:29 <__gilles> bitcoin jobs ?
1763 2011-06-15 13:56:32 <__gilles> that looks great
1764 2011-06-15 13:56:48 <altamic> hello there, is there a place where one can convert a bitcoin address to the corresponding number?
1765 2011-06-15 13:58:05 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1766 2011-06-15 13:58:05 pnicholson has joined
1767 2011-06-15 13:58:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 131040 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 2015 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 4 hours, 49 minutes, and 5 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3507820.77188370
1768 2011-06-15 13:58:22 Lenovo01 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1769 2011-06-15 13:58:24 <diki> d-day
1770 2011-06-15 13:58:39 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1771 2011-06-15 13:59:00 Lenovo01 has joined
1772 2011-06-15 14:00:25 sav- is now known as sav
1773 2011-06-15 14:00:39 Lenovo01 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1774 2011-06-15 14:01:16 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1775 2011-06-15 14:02:42 altamic has quit (Quit: altamic)
1776 2011-06-15 14:02:56 ChuckSchumer has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1777 2011-06-15 14:03:05 drdig has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1778 2011-06-15 14:03:14 Lenovo01 has joined
1779 2011-06-15 14:05:45 Lenovo01 has quit (Client Quit)
1780 2011-06-15 14:05:53 asyn_ has joined
1781 2011-06-15 14:05:55 d4de has joined
1782 2011-06-15 14:05:57 johnlockwood has joined
1783 2011-06-15 14:06:00 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1784 2011-06-15 14:06:41 hacim has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1785 2011-06-15 14:06:45 Lenovo01 has joined
1786 2011-06-15 14:08:16 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVM•AVTEM•CENSEO•CVTTENBERC•ESSE•DELENDVM)
1787 2011-06-15 14:09:05 Kiba` has joined
1788 2011-06-15 14:09:13 falafell has joined
1789 2011-06-15 14:09:23 <falafell> MagicalTux ?
1790 2011-06-15 14:09:31 johnlockwood_ has joined
1791 2011-06-15 14:09:39 <falafell> how long does it take on average to get a reply from mtgox?
1792 2011-06-15 14:09:39 anddam has joined
1793 2011-06-15 14:09:42 <anddam> hi
1794 2011-06-15 14:09:58 <kluge> MagicalTux, any validity to this? http://buttcoin.org/mt-gox-other-bitcoin-exchange-sites-hacked
1795 2011-06-15 14:10:04 Kiba` is now known as kiba`
1796 2011-06-15 14:10:30 cryptocnt has joined
1797 2011-06-15 14:10:36 kiba` is now known as kiba
1798 2011-06-15 14:10:37 johnlockwood has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1799 2011-06-15 14:10:38 johnlockwood_ is now known as johnlockwood
1800 2011-06-15 14:12:04 Lenovo01 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1801 2011-06-15 14:12:29 johnlockwood has quit (Client Quit)
1802 2011-06-15 14:12:33 <MagicalTux> lol
1803 2011-06-15 14:12:40 <MagicalTux> kluge: users are compromised, your link is FUD
1804 2011-06-15 14:12:59 <kluge> aight :)
1805 2011-06-15 14:13:37 johnlockwood has joined
1806 2011-06-15 14:14:23 <sanity> MagicalTux: is your API up at the moment?  i'm getting timeouts from two separate servers
1807 2011-06-15 14:14:25 <anddam> has builtin gpg support for wallet been discussed?
1808 2011-06-15 14:14:26 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1809 2011-06-15 14:15:10 <anddam> MagicalTux: 'MT' as in MTgox?
1810 2011-06-15 14:15:33 somuchwin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1811 2011-06-15 14:15:43 <MagicalTux> sanity: https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20197042-ddos-in-progress-2011-06-15
1812 2011-06-15 14:16:06 <falafell> MagicalTux, at what timespan can i expect a reply to an email to mtgox?
1813 2011-06-15 14:16:41 Teslah has joined
1814 2011-06-15 14:16:43 <sanity> MagicalTux: how do i know if you've decided my trading bot is trying to DDoS you?  (its not, obivously)
1815 2011-06-15 14:17:05 mmoya has joined
1816 2011-06-15 14:17:12 <MagicalTux> sanity: I don't know either, filtering is done by my ISP
1817 2011-06-15 14:17:19 <MagicalTux> falafell: ticket id?
1818 2011-06-15 14:17:36 <falafell> MagicalTux let me look that up..
1819 2011-06-15 14:17:38 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1820 2011-06-15 14:18:00 <anddam> MagicalTux: nvm just found http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7015.0
1821 2011-06-15 14:18:18 <falafell> MagicalTux 719
1822 2011-06-15 14:18:18 <MagicalTux> :p
1823 2011-06-15 14:19:46 <MagicalTux> falafell: unfortunately there is nothing we can do about coins on the network
1824 2011-06-15 14:20:00 <diki> the new diff hardly made a difference
1825 2011-06-15 14:20:06 syke has joined
1826 2011-06-15 14:20:08 johnlockwood has left ()
1827 2011-06-15 14:20:08 ChuckSchumer has joined
1828 2011-06-15 14:20:09 <diki> i think it even speed up stuff
1829 2011-06-15 14:20:14 <falafell> MagicalTux, i know, but you could use your logs to keep track of the used IP for example...
1830 2011-06-15 14:20:25 asyn_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1831 2011-06-15 14:21:19 <MagicalTux> falafell: it's all tor nodes
1832 2011-06-15 14:21:35 <falafell> hm so much for that idea...
1833 2011-06-15 14:22:18 <MagicalTux> you're talking about LulzSec right now, and most likely someone on this channel is laughing at us
1834 2011-06-15 14:22:24 observer_ has joined
1835 2011-06-15 14:22:29 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1836 2011-06-15 14:24:57 zapnap has joined
1837 2011-06-15 14:25:18 <Optimo> lulz
1838 2011-06-15 14:25:54 glassresistor has joined
1839 2011-06-15 14:26:07 <falafell> I don't care who it is we talk about really, nor that people may laugh, theres been a security breach at either end and it needs to be addressed imho
1840 2011-06-15 14:26:50 <emock> you sure you aren't part of the bonnet?
1841 2011-06-15 14:26:56 El-Loco has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1842 2011-06-15 14:26:57 <emock> botnet
1843 2011-06-15 14:27:05 Lenovo01 has joined
1844 2011-06-15 14:27:06 <falafell> emock, my pc isn't hacked, my mtgox account was
1845 2011-06-15 14:27:15 <falafell> i found no evidence that my pc is compromised in any way
1846 2011-06-15 14:27:21 <falafell> nor any other accounts
1847 2011-06-15 14:27:53 <falafell> the reason i think something at my end went wrong is because the lack of reports of other mtgox accounts being compromised
1848 2011-06-15 14:27:54 * emock adds botnet to his dictionary
1849 2011-06-15 14:28:28 Lenovo01 has quit (Client Quit)
1850 2011-06-15 14:28:58 <Namegduf> falafell: How secure (in general terms) was your password?
1851 2011-06-15 14:29:16 <falafell> 8~10 char alphanumeric
1852 2011-06-15 14:29:29 aiwk171 has joined
1853 2011-06-15 14:29:34 <syke> ;;bc,stats
1854 2011-06-15 14:29:35 <Namegduf> Unless it's vulnerable to a dictionary attack, that shouldn't have been it, then.
1855 2011-06-15 14:29:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 131044 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 2011 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 10 hours, 14 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1624993.31312489
1856 2011-06-15 14:29:48 <vegard> is it used on any other sites? :)
1857 2011-06-15 14:29:51 <iera> hm mtgox is down again
1858 2011-06-15 14:29:55 <Namegduf> (word + one digit is still sorta dictionary-able)
1859 2011-06-15 14:30:02 <emock> does mtgox log ip's?
1860 2011-06-15 14:30:08 <aiwk171> Hi you people. I case you want to read up on securing your wallet: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17240.0
1861 2011-06-15 14:30:12 <falafell> it was on a few yes
1862 2011-06-15 14:30:13 <emock> well, that probably wouldn't help anyway
1863 2011-06-15 14:30:18 <aiwk171> I'm happy for all critique
1864 2011-06-15 14:30:20 <falafell> so maybe there something leaked
1865 2011-06-15 14:30:28 <Namegduf> Could be.
1866 2011-06-15 14:30:29 <falafell> im pissed that i dont know what went wrong
1867 2011-06-15 14:30:36 <Namegduf> I know what you mean.
1868 2011-06-15 14:31:00 aiwk171 has quit (Client Quit)
1869 2011-06-15 14:31:09 <falafell> also my pc still holds the bitcoins so i assume he would have taken those if he had access
1870 2011-06-15 14:31:18 * emock is a Tor novice but might it be good to limit the number of login attempts from a given IP?
1871 2011-06-15 14:31:21 vigilyn has joined
1872 2011-06-15 14:31:35 Ycros has joined
1873 2011-06-15 14:31:46 theboos has joined
1874 2011-06-15 14:32:19 <emock> if a list of passwords got stolen from mtgox I'm sure more accounts would have been compromised
1875 2011-06-15 14:32:48 <falafell> yep
1876 2011-06-15 14:33:04 <vegard> falafell: are you using https? are you using a public network?
1877 2011-06-15 14:33:05 <emock> is bitcoin.org being ddos'd too?
1878 2011-06-15 14:33:36 <falafell> vegard im using home network, and try https wherever i can
1879 2011-06-15 14:33:52 Guest23990 is now known as topace
1880 2011-06-15 14:36:15 slush has joined
1881 2011-06-15 14:37:11 slush has quit (Client Quit)
1882 2011-06-15 14:38:32 anddam has left ()
1883 2011-06-15 14:38:44 lessPlastic has joined
1884 2011-06-15 14:39:14 Guest84894 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1885 2011-06-15 14:39:54 <Ycros> mtgox is https only, isn't it?
1886 2011-06-15 14:40:15 Joric has quit ()
1887 2011-06-15 14:41:49 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1888 2011-06-15 14:41:51 <diki> how does bitcoin know if a hash is computed twice i.e sha256(sha256(hash))
1889 2011-06-15 14:42:40 <neopallium> diki: other bitcoin client will verify the hash
1890 2011-06-15 14:42:56 <neopallium> sha256(sha256(data)) != sha256(data)
1891 2011-06-15 14:43:32 <diki> what is this other bitcoin client?
1892 2011-06-15 14:44:02 <neopallium> other bitcoin clients are the p2p network of bitcoin clients that verify every block
1893 2011-06-15 14:44:05 sipao has joined
1894 2011-06-15 14:44:37 <neopallium> if someone doesn't compute the hash for a block correctly it will be rejected by the network.
1895 2011-06-15 14:44:40 d4de has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1896 2011-06-15 14:45:52 F4C3_ has joined
1897 2011-06-15 14:46:22 <F4C3_> heads up if you get a PM from Errorer he is trying to get you to dl malicious software
1898 2011-06-15 14:46:27 <F4C3_> on bitcoin forums
1899 2011-06-15 14:47:05 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1900 2011-06-15 14:47:25 <diki> huh? i got scammed for 484 dollars..why would i want to get scammed more?
1901 2011-06-15 14:47:45 tandy80 has joined
1902 2011-06-15 14:48:09 <tandy80> I have a question, is it OK to pull the mtgox ticker every minute?
1903 2011-06-15 14:49:06 mmoya has joined
1904 2011-06-15 14:49:21 <F4C3_> tandy80: sure, maybe not polite, but not a huge deal
1905 2011-06-15 14:49:40 <F4C3_> 1 minute is reasonable really
1906 2011-06-15 14:49:44 <F4C3_> if it was less than that
1907 2011-06-15 14:49:58 <tandy80> F4C3_: OK thanks. Is there a turn around, apart the IRC?
1908 2011-06-15 14:50:17 <F4C3_> ah, not sure what you are asking
1909 2011-06-15 14:50:21 <F4C3_> rephrase?
1910 2011-06-15 14:50:30 Bimmerhead has joined
1911 2011-06-15 14:50:35 <tandy80> I mean how can I get real time exchange rates from mtgox
1912 2011-06-15 14:50:54 <tandy80> If I want to go below the minute
1913 2011-06-15 14:51:31 T_X has joined
1914 2011-06-15 14:51:35 <F4C3_> you cant really, you'd have to pull it more frequently in order to get the data somehow, but what you could do, is pull it more frequently to one location, then, if you are running multiple locations, pull from there
1915 2011-06-15 14:52:03 <F4C3_> mtgox->cache(retrieves every 30 seconds)->end point (retrieves at random and "real time")
1916 2011-06-15 14:52:06 <tandy80> ok ok thanks
1917 2011-06-15 14:52:29 <tandy80> I have been thinking of using the #bitcoin-market channel as well with a pyhton scrit, what do you think?
1918 2011-06-15 14:52:40 <F4C3_> sounds like a lot of extra work
1919 2011-06-15 14:52:42 <mithridates> which pool is better?
1920 2011-06-15 14:53:21 <tandy80> yep but this way you get real time data and do not overload their server
1921 2011-06-15 14:54:04 <F4C3_> like how do you mean, the data has to come from somewhere
1922 2011-06-15 14:54:24 <F4C3_> unless you mean following the scenario i outlined and isntead of having your own cache, you are using the irc bot as a cache
1923 2011-06-15 14:54:57 sipao has left ()
1924 2011-06-15 14:55:20 emock has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1925 2011-06-15 14:55:25 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
1926 2011-06-15 14:55:43 Bimmerhead has left ()
1927 2011-06-15 14:55:48 <tandy80> no I mean I would be connected to the freenode server with a python bot, pulling the data from the #bitcoin-market channel
1928 2011-06-15 14:55:54 <tandy80> this way I do not draw on mtgox
1929 2011-06-15 14:56:01 emock has joined
1930 2011-06-15 14:56:07 <F4C3_> but the bitcoin-market channel draws from mt gox at some point
1931 2011-06-15 14:56:25 <F4C3_> ive set up relays here http://coindaemon.com/ticker.php
1932 2011-06-15 14:56:28 <tandy80> yep but once for everybody
1933 2011-06-15 14:56:41 <F4C3_> so then exactly like i outlined
1934 2011-06-15 14:56:48 <F4C3_> pull from a caching point
1935 2011-06-15 14:56:58 <tandy80> hmmm yes :)
1936 2011-06-15 14:57:55 <tandy80> when I click on your link I get an empty ticker
1937 2011-06-15 14:58:03 <tandy80> is it me or is mtgox having issue right now?
1938 2011-06-15 14:58:09 <F4C3_> it's having issues
1939 2011-06-15 14:58:14 DD- has quit ()
1940 2011-06-15 14:58:15 <tandy80> ok ok
1941 2011-06-15 14:58:16 <F4C3_> my ticker is timing out because im not locally storing the cache
1942 2011-06-15 14:58:27 <F4C3_> a job for another day
1943 2011-06-15 14:58:31 <tandy80> :)
1944 2011-06-15 14:58:42 <tandy80> what are you working on ? I am on auto trading
1945 2011-06-15 14:58:45 lessPlastic has joined
1946 2011-06-15 14:59:16 <F4C3_> well i work a full 9-5 as a developer, but in my free time, i mostly write plugins and software that helps ecommerce shop owners use bitcoins for transactions
1947 2011-06-15 14:59:32 unclemantis has joined
1948 2011-06-15 14:59:52 <tandy80> that's good. like for oscommerce or joomla?
1949 2011-06-15 14:59:55 El-Loco has joined
1950 2011-06-15 14:59:57 <tandy80> i might need one someday
1951 2011-06-15 15:00:46 <F4C3_> like that yeah, but i dotn really care for oscommerce or joomla
1952 2011-06-15 15:00:59 <F4C3_> zencart is a good replacement for oscommerce
1953 2011-06-15 15:01:08 <tandy80> i agree
1954 2011-06-15 15:01:11 <F4C3_> and magento is a good replacement for joomla people who need ecommerce
1955 2011-06-15 15:01:17 <tandy80> those I quoted aren't my faves
1956 2011-06-15 15:01:36 <tandy80> magento just been bought by... ebay aren't they?
1957 2011-06-15 15:02:14 <F4C3_> ehhhhh maybe, not sure, would need to google it.
1958 2011-06-15 15:02:21 <tandy80> :)
1959 2011-06-15 15:02:22 <tandy80> OK
1960 2011-06-15 15:02:33 <tandy80> i will go back to my 9-5 job now
1961 2011-06-15 15:02:39 <tandy80> thank for your help !!
1962 2011-06-15 15:02:48 <F4C3_> hey no worries, i really should get back to work as well
1963 2011-06-15 15:02:59 <tandy80> this place is addictive
1964 2011-06-15 15:05:48 ezl has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1965 2011-06-15 15:06:14 Teslah has joined
1966 2011-06-15 15:07:14 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1967 2011-06-15 15:07:18 blueadept has joined
1968 2011-06-15 15:07:48 wardearia has joined
1969 2011-06-15 15:08:29 blueadept has quit (Client Quit)
1970 2011-06-15 15:08:58 blueadept has joined
1971 2011-06-15 15:09:51 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1972 2011-06-15 15:10:34 <MC1984> so umm
1973 2011-06-15 15:10:55 observer_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1974 2011-06-15 15:11:00 <MC1984> is anyone else worried that someone brought >50% of the previous netowrks strength online overnight
1975 2011-06-15 15:11:17 <forrestv> yeah
1976 2011-06-15 15:11:22 MrBubbles has joined
1977 2011-06-15 15:11:43 <MC1984> isnt this a nightmare scenario
1978 2011-06-15 15:12:04 <MC1984> its more like 100%+ actually.......
1979 2011-06-15 15:12:37 <MC1984> wait did the diffucilty just increase?
1980 2011-06-15 15:12:54 <MC1984> ;;bc'stats
1981 2011-06-15 15:12:55 <gribble> Error: "bc'stats" is not a valid command.
1982 2011-06-15 15:12:58 <MC1984> ;;bc,stats
1983 2011-06-15 15:13:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 131051 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 2004 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 8 hours, 57 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1591249.96643814
1984 2011-06-15 15:13:23 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
1985 2011-06-15 15:13:25 <MC1984> oh damn i thought it wsant for a few more days hmmm
1986 2011-06-15 15:16:49 stahi has joined
1987 2011-06-15 15:17:07 IoWn3rU_ has joined
1988 2011-06-15 15:18:15 F4C3_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1989 2011-06-15 15:18:34 Jefff has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1990 2011-06-15 15:18:52 MrBubbles has left ()
1991 2011-06-15 15:18:54 Jefff has joined
1992 2011-06-15 15:18:57 <tandy80> MC1984: what do you mean with the network strength thing%?
1993 2011-06-15 15:18:59 xfactor__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1994 2011-06-15 15:18:59 jstoner_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1995 2011-06-15 15:19:00 lessPlastic has joined
1996 2011-06-15 15:19:21 joeyjamjimbo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1997 2011-06-15 15:19:23 ptte has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1998 2011-06-15 15:19:23 mologie has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1999 2011-06-15 15:19:59 mologie has joined
2000 2011-06-15 15:20:05 min0r has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2001 2011-06-15 15:20:07 wood_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2002 2011-06-15 15:20:07 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2003 2011-06-15 15:20:21 IoWn3rU has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2004 2011-06-15 15:20:43 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
2005 2011-06-15 15:20:51 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2006 2011-06-15 15:20:56 mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2007 2011-06-15 15:20:56 int0x27h has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2008 2011-06-15 15:20:56 JunK-Y has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2009 2011-06-15 15:20:56 kabo69 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2010 2011-06-15 15:21:01 kabo69 has joined
2011 2011-06-15 15:21:13 CrazyEddy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2012 2011-06-15 15:21:32 LobsterMan has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2013 2011-06-15 15:21:32 JunK-Y has joined
2014 2011-06-15 15:21:35 Ramokk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015 2011-06-15 15:21:37 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
2016 2011-06-15 15:21:38 kik- has joined
2017 2011-06-15 15:21:39 Jefff has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2018 2011-06-15 15:21:45 Joric has joined
2019 2011-06-15 15:21:47 gribble has quit (Disconnected by services)
2020 2011-06-15 15:21:57 omes has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2021 2011-06-15 15:22:02 ezl has joined
2022 2011-06-15 15:22:05 AAA_awright has joined
2023 2011-06-15 15:22:06 soap has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2024 2011-06-15 15:22:30 LobsterMan has joined
2025 2011-06-15 15:22:30 LobsterMan has quit (Changing host)
2026 2011-06-15 15:22:30 LobsterMan has joined
2027 2011-06-15 15:22:36 Jefff has joined
2028 2011-06-15 15:22:38 omes has joined
2029 2011-06-15 15:22:41 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2030 2011-06-15 15:22:41 Quetzalcoatl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2031 2011-06-15 15:22:50 Ramokk has joined
2032 2011-06-15 15:23:01 mtve has joined
2033 2011-06-15 15:23:03 dermoth has quit (home!~thomas@dsl-141-145.aei.ca|Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2034 2011-06-15 15:23:03 ForceMajeure has joined
2035 2011-06-15 15:23:07 Quetzalcoatl_ has joined
2036 2011-06-15 15:23:13 nefario1 has joined
2037 2011-06-15 15:23:14 int0x27h has joined
2038 2011-06-15 15:23:32 soap has joined
2039 2011-06-15 15:23:32 soap has quit (Changing host)
2040 2011-06-15 15:23:32 soap has joined
2041 2011-06-15 15:23:42 nefario1 has quit (Client Quit)
2042 2011-06-15 15:23:47 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2043 2011-06-15 15:23:48 nealmcb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2044 2011-06-15 15:24:07 nealmcb has joined
2045 2011-06-15 15:24:18 wood_ has joined
2046 2011-06-15 15:24:22 Lenovo01 has joined
2047 2011-06-15 15:24:26 nanotube has joined
2048 2011-06-15 15:24:39 sacarlson has joined
2049 2011-06-15 15:24:47 gribble has joined
2050 2011-06-15 15:25:28 dermoth has joined
2051 2011-06-15 15:25:47 dsg has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2052 2011-06-15 15:26:12 evelyn66 has joined
2053 2011-06-15 15:26:33 nefario has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2054 2011-06-15 15:27:07 <corecode> oh wow
2055 2011-06-15 15:27:46 kermit has joined
2056 2011-06-15 15:27:52 <MC1984> dat netsplit
2057 2011-06-15 15:28:10 <corecode> mean difficulty
2058 2011-06-15 15:28:18 osmosis has joined
2059 2011-06-15 15:28:31 <MC1984> dat difficulty
2060 2011-06-15 15:28:41 <tandy80> ok ;)
2061 2011-06-15 15:31:03 ptte has joined
2062 2011-06-15 15:31:30 jivvz has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2063 2011-06-15 15:32:02 <gmaxwell> Anyone care that user "MoonShadow-" on the forum is sending out pm emails with windows scr files (presumably trojans)?
2064 2011-06-15 15:32:47 <emock> nope, cause I don't use windows ;-)
2065 2011-06-15 15:33:41 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2066 2011-06-15 15:34:10 Jefff has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2067 2011-06-15 15:34:13 <gmaxwell> Nor do I, of course. Or browse from a computer containing a wallet.
2068 2011-06-15 15:34:32 takezo420 has joined
2069 2011-06-15 15:34:44 Jefff has joined
2070 2011-06-15 15:34:51 <emock> anyone actually look at the files?
2071 2011-06-15 15:35:10 <gmaxwell> the trojan?
2072 2011-06-15 15:35:31 ahbritto has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2073 2011-06-15 15:35:34 <emock> yea, to see if it is/what it is
2074 2011-06-15 15:35:54 <gmaxwell> http://images4u.hostil.REMOVE THIS IF YOU WANT THE TROJAN.pl/DSC00054.jpg
2075 2011-06-15 15:36:11 ahbritto has joined
2076 2011-06-15 15:36:42 <emock> Poland…  malformed jpg?
2077 2011-06-15 15:37:12 <gmaxwell> it's a SCR (win32 exe)
2078 2011-06-15 15:37:29 D0han has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2079 2011-06-15 15:37:43 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2080 2011-06-15 15:38:33 <upb> lol
2081 2011-06-15 15:39:36 nanotube has quit (Excess Flood)
2082 2011-06-15 15:39:39 <upb> <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript" TYPE="text/javascript">
2083 2011-06-15 15:39:40 <upb> location.href="DSC00054.scr";
2084 2011-06-15 15:39:40 <upb> </SCRIPT>
2085 2011-06-15 15:39:49 <upb> and the .jpg is a directory
2086 2011-06-15 15:39:52 BlueMatt has joined
2087 2011-06-15 15:39:56 BlueMatt has quit (Changing host)
2088 2011-06-15 15:39:56 BlueMatt has joined
2089 2011-06-15 15:39:59 <emock> how clever...
2090 2011-06-15 15:40:02 <upb> yep
2091 2011-06-15 15:40:34 <gmaxwell> hmph. seeing poor propagation on a txn with outputs >0.01  (sendmany with 5x 0.0025 and 0.0005 fee). Not on bitcoincharts yet and hasn't been mined in about 30 minutes.
2092 2011-06-15 15:40:39 pRjck3vC has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2093 2011-06-15 15:40:39 dbitcoin has joined
2094 2011-06-15 15:40:46 <BlueMatt> wheres gribble?
2095 2011-06-15 15:42:31 nutcase has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2096 2011-06-15 15:43:02 nutcase has joined
2097 2011-06-15 15:43:11 neversleep has joined
2098 2011-06-15 15:44:17 slush has joined
2099 2011-06-15 15:44:22 <sytse> BlueMatt: and where's gribbles mtgox updates.. mtgox trades are happening but not showing up in #bitcoin-market
2100 2011-06-15 15:46:07 DontMindMe has joined
2101 2011-06-15 15:46:19 mmo1 has joined
2102 2011-06-15 15:46:45 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2103 2011-06-15 15:48:03 <syke> is it really 12THashes now? or is that number not accurate
2104 2011-06-15 15:48:18 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2105 2011-06-15 15:48:46 gribble has joined
2106 2011-06-15 15:49:08 <gmaxwell> syke: the bitcoinwatch numbers are nuts after difficulty changes.
2107 2011-06-15 15:49:30 D0han has joined
2108 2011-06-15 15:49:46 <gmaxwell> it's computing the rate of old blocks at the new diff, or resetting its counter or something else stupid. It's always nuts right after.
2109 2011-06-15 15:49:47 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2110 2011-06-15 15:49:59 <gmaxwell> syke: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png < reasonable.
2111 2011-06-15 15:50:00 BlueMatt has joined
2112 2011-06-15 15:50:56 therealnanotube has joined
2113 2011-06-15 15:51:03 therealnanotube is now known as nanotube
2114 2011-06-15 15:51:27 nhodges has joined
2115 2011-06-15 15:51:33 zyb has joined
2116 2011-06-15 15:51:43 <doublec> does bitcoind need a newer version of boost to build?
2117 2011-06-15 15:51:51 <doublec> current git doesn't build
2118 2011-06-15 15:52:23 <emock> platform?
2119 2011-06-15 15:52:23 <doublec> noui.h:59: error: ‘function0’ is not a member of ‘boost’
2120 2011-06-15 15:52:26 <doublec> linux
2121 2011-06-15 15:52:28 <BlueMatt> BlueMattBot: status Bitcoin
2122 2011-06-15 15:52:28 <BlueMattBot> Bitcoin: last build: 55 (1 day 5 hr ago): SUCCESS: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/55/
2123 2011-06-15 15:52:32 <doublec> ubuntu 10.04
2124 2011-06-15 15:52:36 <BlueMatt> nope, current head builds fine
2125 2011-06-15 15:53:04 <doublec> building with make -f makefile.unix bitcoind USE_UPNP=
2126 2011-06-15 15:53:09 <doublec> tested on three different machines
2127 2011-06-15 15:53:45 <doublec> using libboost-1.40
2128 2011-06-15 15:55:13 kermit has joined
2129 2011-06-15 15:55:49 johnnympereira5 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2130 2011-06-15 15:56:26 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
2131 2011-06-15 15:58:06 md2k7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2132 2011-06-15 15:58:21 <doublec> BlueMatt: this is the commit that introduced it 31f293128177e0f53331ddb3f1f5ea22176bf91c
2133 2011-06-15 15:59:43 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2134 2011-06-15 16:01:24 <doublec> reverting that commit allows HEAD to build for me
2135 2011-06-15 16:02:52 pirrr has joined
2136 2011-06-15 16:07:18 derpadurr has joined
2137 2011-06-15 16:07:27 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2138 2011-06-15 16:08:02 derpadurr has quit (Client Quit)
2139 2011-06-15 16:08:55 derpadurr has joined
2140 2011-06-15 16:09:32 hachque has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2141 2011-06-15 16:11:52 krekbwoy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2142 2011-06-15 16:12:01 d1234 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2143 2011-06-15 16:12:53 pierce has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2144 2011-06-15 16:13:34 D0han has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
2145 2011-06-15 16:13:39 D0han has joined
2146 2011-06-15 16:13:52 jimjamjojam has joined
2147 2011-06-15 16:14:23 <jimjamjojam> k this is pissing me off. If i go to http://mtgox.com/code/data/getTrades.php it shows the trades. If i do an url request from my program i'm workin on it returns html
2148 2011-06-15 16:15:19 <MagicalTux> jimjamjojam: try https:// and not http://
2149 2011-06-15 16:16:06 <jimjamjojam> MagicalTux: I fuckin heart u
2150 2011-06-15 16:16:32 <sytse> BlueMattBot: doublec is right, noui.h uses boost::function0 in a function declaration, so headers.h does need '#include <boost/function.hpp>'
2151 2011-06-15 16:16:32 <BlueMattBot> sytse did you mean me? Unknown command 'doublec'
2152 2011-06-15 16:16:32 <BlueMattBot> Use 'BlueMattBot: help' to get help!
2153 2011-06-15 16:16:35 mosimo has joined
2154 2011-06-15 16:16:41 <sytse> uh
2155 2011-06-15 16:16:43 <sytse> BlueMatt:
2156 2011-06-15 16:16:57 D0han has quit (Client Quit)
2157 2011-06-15 16:17:19 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2158 2011-06-15 16:17:30 mmo1 has left ()
2159 2011-06-15 16:17:52 espinet has joined
2160 2011-06-15 16:18:06 traviscj_ has joined
2161 2011-06-15 16:18:30 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2162 2011-06-15 16:19:08 pierce has joined
2163 2011-06-15 16:20:02 traviscj_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2164 2011-06-15 16:20:16 Pinion has joined
2165 2011-06-15 16:20:18 D0han has joined
2166 2011-06-15 16:20:23 Zefir has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2167 2011-06-15 16:20:57 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2168 2011-06-15 16:21:18 El-Loco has quit ()
2169 2011-06-15 16:21:20 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2170 2011-06-15 16:21:53 <sytse> hmm, bluematt quit
2171 2011-06-15 16:22:12 Joric has joined
2172 2011-06-15 16:22:12 Joric has quit (Changing host)
2173 2011-06-15 16:22:12 Joric has joined
2174 2011-06-15 16:22:47 <gmaxwell> Is there some RPC to query all the known txn?
2175 2011-06-15 16:22:48 <sytse> doublec: btw, it builds just fine here with boost 1.42
2176 2011-06-15 16:23:23 <gmaxwell> I'm trying to figure out why 74fab645ec40cf34f7629ac73fd9f4d850be81dadb3b1de0a6c45e5b12ff0505  hasn't been mined in >1HR and I'd like to query some of my nodes and see if they're aware of it.
2177 2011-06-15 16:23:29 <sytse> doublec: (but reverting that commit doesn't do any harm obviously)
2178 2011-06-15 16:24:42 <gmaxwell> I think the reduction in the imposed fees in .23 may have been too soon. :-/
2179 2011-06-15 16:25:17 <edcba> gmaxwell: bitcoin protocol does thaat iircc
2180 2011-06-15 16:25:40 <edcba> inv command
2181 2011-06-15 16:25:41 <devrandom> (you may already know this...)
2182 2011-06-15 16:25:43 <devrandom> oops
2183 2011-06-15 16:26:11 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
2184 2011-06-15 16:26:24 <gmaxwell> edcba: sure sure, I could write an inv querier but .. that would take a small amount of effort. :)
2185 2011-06-15 16:27:21 NickelBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2186 2011-06-15 16:28:34 takezo420 has joined
2187 2011-06-15 16:29:19 Lenovo01 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2188 2011-06-15 16:29:34 <doublec> sytse: thanks. Hopefully it can be fixed to support building on boost 1.40.
2189 2011-06-15 16:29:39 NickelBot has joined
2190 2011-06-15 16:32:44 <sytse> doublec: could you try the current git master, with only '#include <boost/function.hpp>' added in noui.h, belong the inclusion of string?
2191 2011-06-15 16:32:56 <sytse> s/belong/below/
2192 2011-06-15 16:33:22 <gmaxwell> if the daemon behind http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ hasn't been updated for the new txn fees— it needs to be.
2193 2011-06-15 16:33:56 <doublec> sytse: trying now
2194 2011-06-15 16:34:07 NickelBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2195 2011-06-15 16:35:51 <doublec> sytse: that worked fine
2196 2011-06-15 16:36:02 NickelBot has joined
2197 2011-06-15 16:36:11 <sytse> doublec: good..
2198 2011-06-15 16:36:39 <sytse> if a bitcoin developer is reading this channel: could you add #include <boost/function.hpp> to noui.h?
2199 2011-06-15 16:36:40 <diki> why is the redraw on bitcoin so annyoing?
2200 2011-06-15 16:36:44 <diki> it flickers when mining
2201 2011-06-15 16:36:55 <diki> yet mirc or a video player dont
2202 2011-06-15 16:37:05 <sytse> which windows version?
2203 2011-06-15 16:37:08 <diki> 7
2204 2011-06-15 16:37:49 <sytse> (just asking, I have no idea personally.. could be unfixable without fixing wxWidgets)
2205 2011-06-15 16:38:19 <diki> ;;eauth diki
2206 2011-06-15 16:38:19 <gribble> Request successful for user diki, hostmask diki!diki@46.40.126.253. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/4C5FCC9FF6533A65
2207 2011-06-15 16:38:58 Zefir has joined
2208 2011-06-15 16:40:12 <sytse> jgarzik: see the above question
2209 2011-06-15 16:41:06 <sytse> jgarzik: (noui.h needs boost/function.hpp to compile with boost 1.40)
2210 2011-06-15 16:44:12 <Wuked> diki I've made my Pool live today if you want to check it out
2211 2011-06-15 16:44:17 <Wuked> https://mineco.in
2212 2011-06-15 16:44:37 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2213 2011-06-15 16:45:57 brunner has joined
2214 2011-06-15 16:46:32 Leo_II has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2215 2011-06-15 16:46:38 DrewSJ has joined
2216 2011-06-15 16:46:57 brunner has quit (Client Quit)
2217 2011-06-15 16:47:18 <falafell> ;;bc,stats
2218 2011-06-15 16:47:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 131072 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 1983 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 8 hours, 16 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1694186.50247079
2219 2011-06-15 16:48:18 <emock> why not pm gribble with that?
2220 2011-06-15 16:49:44 <eps> awesome difficulty
2221 2011-06-15 16:50:21 Leo_II has joined
2222 2011-06-15 16:50:28 Joric has quit ()
2223 2011-06-15 16:52:00 ZOP has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2224 2011-06-15 16:52:25 <topi`> odd, I was mining with jgarzik's minerd, and suddenly *all* of my minerd's segfaulted, I guess it was caused by bad data downloaded from Eligius
2225 2011-06-15 16:52:28 <topi`> did anyone see this?
2226 2011-06-15 16:52:41 <topi`> or am I just getting crazy?
2227 2011-06-15 16:54:03 [Tycho] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2228 2011-06-15 16:54:11 <Graet> anyone? is it possible for a pool to do a "manual" payout. as in reset round shares, payout on user /pool shares. obviously enought btc would have to be in pool kitty
2229 2011-06-15 16:54:33 espinet has quit (Quit: espinet)
2230 2011-06-15 16:55:38 p0s has joined
2231 2011-06-15 16:56:21 [Tycho] has joined
2232 2011-06-15 16:56:36 ChuckSchumer has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2233 2011-06-15 16:57:02 Titeuf_87 has joined
2234 2011-06-15 16:57:12 jivvz has joined
2235 2011-06-15 16:58:49 ajf is now known as offline!~ajf@78.129.159.151|ajf
2236 2011-06-15 16:59:07 * jgarzik wakes up
2237 2011-06-15 16:59:30 * Graet trying not to fall asleep :/
2238 2011-06-15 17:01:37 DontMindMe2 has joined
2239 2011-06-15 17:02:42 andzej has joined
2240 2011-06-15 17:04:42 corecode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2241 2011-06-15 17:05:20 DontMindMe has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2242 2011-06-15 17:05:39 <Graet> nm worked it out
2243 2011-06-15 17:07:19 corecode has joined
2244 2011-06-15 17:09:51 Leo_II has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2245 2011-06-15 17:11:28 brunner has joined
2246 2011-06-15 17:12:58 <vegard> “Error: This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least 0.0005 because of its amount, complexity, or use of recently received funds”
2247 2011-06-15 17:13:42 Leo_II has joined
2248 2011-06-15 17:14:19 <vegard> this is the bitcoin client refusing to submit it to the network, right?
2249 2011-06-15 17:14:50 <vegard> what had happened if it did send it? would it just get rejected and nothing happen?
2250 2011-06-15 17:15:08 theorb has joined
2251 2011-06-15 17:16:01 theorbtwo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2252 2011-06-15 17:16:04 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
2253 2011-06-15 17:19:24 <sytse> jgarzik: did you read my question?
2254 2011-06-15 17:19:37 brunner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2255 2011-06-15 17:21:46 toffoo has joined
2256 2011-06-15 17:21:55 kluge has quit (Quit: ....)
2257 2011-06-15 17:22:16 ZOP has joined
2258 2011-06-15 17:22:23 Mononofu has joined
2259 2011-06-15 17:22:50 Teslah has joined
2260 2011-06-15 17:23:40 md2k7 has joined
2261 2011-06-15 17:23:52 TheAncientGoat has left ()
2262 2011-06-15 17:24:07 da2ce7 has quit ()
2263 2011-06-15 17:24:41 cryptocnt has joined
2264 2011-06-15 17:27:31 Teslah has quit (Client Quit)
2265 2011-06-15 17:27:51 Teslah has joined
2266 2011-06-15 17:30:48 mithridates has left ()
2267 2011-06-15 17:32:24 theymos has joined
2268 2011-06-15 17:32:33 DontMindMe2 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
2269 2011-06-15 17:33:33 Blitzboom_ has joined
2270 2011-06-15 17:34:04 devon_hillard has joined
2271 2011-06-15 17:35:07 lumos has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2272 2011-06-15 17:35:11 ChuckSchumer has joined
2273 2011-06-15 17:35:49 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2274 2011-06-15 17:36:12 <theymos> It's my birthday today! I'm now 20.
2275 2011-06-15 17:37:48 <JunK-Y> yay, party!
2276 2011-06-15 17:37:53 <JunK-Y> happy birthday dude
2277 2011-06-15 17:38:04 <theymos> Thanks.
2278 2011-06-15 17:38:36 <emock> you're catching up to me, in percentage terms
2279 2011-06-15 17:39:00 <theymos> Percentage?
2280 2011-06-15 17:39:04 neversleep has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2281 2011-06-15 17:39:26 traviscj has joined
2282 2011-06-15 17:39:47 <emock> when you were 10 you were 33% of my age…  now you're 50%
2283 2011-06-15 17:40:59 <upb> lol
2284 2011-06-15 17:41:05 neversleep has joined
2285 2011-06-15 17:41:18 md2k7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2286 2011-06-15 17:45:03 ChuckSchumer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2287 2011-06-15 17:50:09 necrodearia has joined
2288 2011-06-15 17:50:46 necrodearia has quit (Changing host)
2289 2011-06-15 17:50:46 necrodearia has joined
2290 2011-06-15 17:50:54 necrodearia is now known as wardearia
2291 2011-06-15 17:51:15 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2292 2011-06-15 17:52:58 <AntiVigilante> what happens to coins that are unconfirmed for like ever
2293 2011-06-15 17:54:15 <theymos> The network forgets about the transaction after a while, and it is technically possible to reverse the transaction (though Bitcoin doesn't do this yet).
2294 2011-06-15 17:54:45 glassresistor has joined
2295 2011-06-15 17:54:54 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
2296 2011-06-15 17:54:54 glassresistor has joined
2297 2011-06-15 17:56:33 <gmaxwell> speaking of that... that txn I mentioned earlier still hasn't been mined after 2.69 hours. :-/
2298 2011-06-15 17:56:46 Jaagu has joined
2299 2011-06-15 17:56:57 <gmaxwell> I think putting the minfee update into .23 was a mistake.
2300 2011-06-15 17:56:59 <theymos> Does it exist in http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ ?
2301 2011-06-15 17:57:33 <gmaxwell> Nope, but I can confirm that it was given to hundreds of nodes. (It reached one of my nodes with many connections)
2302 2011-06-15 17:57:43 <gmaxwell> 74fab645ec40cf34f7629ac73fd9f4d850be81dadb3b1de0a6c45e5b12ff0505
2303 2011-06-15 17:58:47 <gmaxwell> $ grep 74fab645ec40cf34f762 debug.log | sort -u| wc -l
2304 2011-06-15 17:58:47 <gmaxwell> 779
2305 2011-06-15 17:58:56 zyb has joined
2306 2011-06-15 17:59:07 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
2307 2011-06-15 17:59:23 <gmaxwell> It's a sendmany with 5x 0.0025 outputs and a 0.0005 fee.
2308 2011-06-15 17:59:41 m00p has joined
2309 2011-06-15 17:59:50 <gmaxwell> (well, it probably has a change output too. haven't looked in detail)
2310 2011-06-15 18:00:40 kreal- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2311 2011-06-15 18:01:42 <theymos> I wonder if the newest version updated the fee rules for sendmany transactions. They have slightly different rules, IIRC.
2312 2011-06-15 18:01:43 glassresistor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2313 2011-06-15 18:02:48 <gmaxwell> The node I grabbed that debug log on is .22 fee rules and it forwarded it.
2314 2011-06-15 18:03:14 kreal- has joined
2315 2011-06-15 18:03:26 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2316 2011-06-15 18:03:56 <gmaxwell> Since it's not up on http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ I'm assuming that it was a forwarding issue, but perhaps it got forwarded okay and it's a mining issue.
2317 2011-06-15 18:04:13 tandy80 has joined
2318 2011-06-15 18:04:20 <gmaxwell> (and an issues with http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/)
2319 2011-06-15 18:04:30 <tandy80> looking for dev working on automated trading. please come in private
2320 2011-06-15 18:06:11 glassresistor has joined
2321 2011-06-15 18:06:11 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
2322 2011-06-15 18:06:11 glassresistor has joined
2323 2011-06-15 18:06:39 sav has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
2324 2011-06-15 18:12:21 sabalaba has joined
2325 2011-06-15 18:14:46 stuhood has joined
2326 2011-06-15 18:15:06 theorbtwo has joined
2327 2011-06-15 18:15:55 Beremat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2328 2011-06-15 18:17:22 <roconnor> btw, does anyone understand iang's triple entry system?
2329 2011-06-15 18:17:35 brunner has joined
2330 2011-06-15 18:18:37 DukeOfURL has joined
2331 2011-06-15 18:18:46 kam1l has joined
2332 2011-06-15 18:19:30 <kam1l> anyone know how that cia meeting went?
2333 2011-06-15 18:19:53 IoWn3rU_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2334 2011-06-15 18:20:24 IoWn3rU_ has joined
2335 2011-06-15 18:22:11 Joric has joined
2336 2011-06-15 18:22:22 stuhood has left ()
2337 2011-06-15 18:23:17 <Joric> wrote a mIRC script, if anyone still uses mIRC, to automate authentication on #bitcoin-otc - http://paste.pocoo.org/show/408345/
2338 2011-06-15 18:23:49 <kam1l> neat!
2339 2011-06-15 18:24:53 pRjck3vC has joined
2340 2011-06-15 18:25:53 md2k7 has joined
2341 2011-06-15 18:28:36 spirals has quit (Changing host)
2342 2011-06-15 18:28:36 spirals has joined
2343 2011-06-15 18:28:42 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2344 2011-06-15 18:29:32 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2345 2011-06-15 18:30:09 JStoker has quit (Quit: JStoker is gone :()
2346 2011-06-15 18:30:33 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2347 2011-06-15 18:31:18 genewitch has quit (Quit: leaving)
2348 2011-06-15 18:32:36 JStoker has joined
2349 2011-06-15 18:33:22 pRjck3vC has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2350 2011-06-15 18:33:43 pRjck3vC has joined
2351 2011-06-15 18:34:12 El-Loco has joined
2352 2011-06-15 18:35:05 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2353 2011-06-15 18:35:07 genewitch has joined
2354 2011-06-15 18:36:54 zyb has quit (Quit: leaving)
2355 2011-06-15 18:37:46 zyb has joined
2356 2011-06-15 18:37:50 <gmaxwell> 3.4 hours. :-/
2357 2011-06-15 18:40:24 pusle has joined
2358 2011-06-15 18:42:14 <AntiVigilante> theymos is it just a btc scripting thing to recover the money?
2359 2011-06-15 18:42:37 <AntiVigilante> or is it more involved
2360 2011-06-15 18:42:40 <gmaxwell> AntiVigilante: just need to pull the txn out of the sender's wallet. then respend the inputs.
2361 2011-06-15 18:43:18 <AntiVigilante> right
2362 2011-06-15 18:43:26 T_X has joined
2363 2011-06-15 18:43:29 Lenovo01 has joined
2364 2011-06-15 18:43:35 legion050 has joined
2365 2011-06-15 18:44:03 <AntiVigilante> so the system would believe those inputs never reached their destination?
2366 2011-06-15 18:44:06 terracotta has quit (Quit: lol)
2367 2011-06-15 18:44:06 <theymos> Right, you just double-spend one of the inputs.
2368 2011-06-15 18:44:55 <AntiVigilante> sounds like a challenge that might get me a reward
2369 2011-06-15 18:45:02 <AntiVigilante> :)
2370 2011-06-15 18:45:24 <AntiVigilante> poor schmuck over wrote his receiving wallet with the back up
2371 2011-06-15 18:45:30 zyb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2372 2011-06-15 18:46:31 <theymos> If you intend to reverse a 0-confirmation transaction, you should shut down the sending and receiving client right away so that it stops being rebroadcast. The network will need some time to forget.
2373 2011-06-15 18:47:13 syke has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2374 2011-06-15 18:47:20 Jesque has joined
2375 2011-06-15 18:47:51 <gmaxwell> AntiVigilante: what is the txn which was stuck for you?
2376 2011-06-15 18:48:03 galaxyAbstractor has joined
2377 2011-06-15 18:48:07 <gmaxwell> (and more importantly— did it meet the 0.22 relay fee rules?)
2378 2011-06-15 18:48:28 <AntiVigilante> relay fee?
2379 2011-06-15 18:48:38 <galaxyAbstractor> hey
2380 2011-06-15 18:48:56 <galaxyAbstractor> I am making a firefox addon for easy payments. What would you prefer, saving your bitcoin username/password in a settings dialog and auth automatically on everything, or have a login box each session asking for credentials, where the user can choose to save the credentials?
2381 2011-06-15 18:48:56 <AntiVigilante> he sent it and the receiving wallet doesn't have the address
2382 2011-06-15 18:49:09 <gmaxwell> AntiVigilante: minimum fees required for relay on low priority txn.
2383 2011-06-15 18:49:20 <gmaxwell> AntiVigilante: "doesn't have the address"?
2384 2011-06-15 18:49:32 espinet has joined
2385 2011-06-15 18:49:40 <AntiVigilante> the receiving wallet was overwritten
2386 2011-06-15 18:49:58 <AntiVigilante> with a back up that didn't have the receiving address
2387 2011-06-15 18:50:11 <gmaxwell> but the transaction is unconfirmed for the sender??
2388 2011-06-15 18:50:15 <gmaxwell> That sounds unlikely.
2389 2011-06-15 18:50:15 <AntiVigilante> yes
2390 2011-06-15 18:50:24 <gmaxwell> _why_?
2391 2011-06-15 18:50:32 larsivi has joined
2392 2011-06-15 18:50:48 <AntiVigilante> unconfirmed or not redeemed
2393 2011-06-15 18:50:55 <AntiVigilante> i have to check
2394 2011-06-15 18:51:01 <gmaxwell> thats not the same.
2395 2011-06-15 18:51:24 <AntiVigilante> let me guess not redeemed cannot be reversed?
2396 2011-06-15 18:51:34 Jesque has quit (Client Quit)
2397 2011-06-15 18:51:37 Mononofu has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2398 2011-06-15 18:51:37 <gmaxwell> Right, if it's in the blockchain it can't be reversed.
2399 2011-06-15 18:51:41 <vegard> what are wkey entries in the wallet?
2400 2011-06-15 18:52:18 <AntiVigilante> even though the coins never arrived
2401 2011-06-15 18:52:22 <AntiVigilante> one sec
2402 2011-06-15 18:53:03 <phantomcircuit> galaxyAbstractor, what? there isn't a bitcoin username/password
2403 2011-06-15 18:53:21 <galaxyAbstractor> yes, for the JSON-RPC API, there is username and password
2404 2011-06-15 18:53:23 hereforfun has joined
2405 2011-06-15 18:53:23 <theymos> vegard: I think they're just the old name for "key" records.
2406 2011-06-15 18:53:26 <galaxyAbstractor> that you set in bitcoin.conf
2407 2011-06-15 18:54:46 <lorph> I am looking into pool software and found that pools using "open source" software detect a generated block by doing listtransactions, this means it is possible to derail pool payout by sending 10 small payments to one of the address' the pool found, it will fall off the transaction list and the people in the pool won't get paid. Am I correct? and/or is there a better way to record blocks
2408 2011-06-15 18:56:08 <Wuked> which open source software uses listtransactions to view blocks ?
2409 2011-06-15 18:56:26 <gmaxwell> lorph: they arent using the count parameter either?
2410 2011-06-15 18:56:27 <Wuked> sorry to work out if a block has been generated
2411 2011-06-15 18:56:39 <lorph> xenland's frontend
2412 2011-06-15 18:56:59 <Wuked> his code is suspect, at best
2413 2011-06-15 18:57:00 <genewitch> lorph: xenland's frontend isn't pool software
2414 2011-06-15 18:57:06 <Wuked> try checking out davouts ruby code instead
2415 2011-06-15 18:57:07 <lorph> yes it is
2416 2011-06-15 18:57:18 <Wuked> xenlands is a front end for pushpool
2417 2011-06-15 18:57:19 <genewitch> lorph: no, it isn't. it's a frontend.
2418 2011-06-15 18:57:21 <Wuked> written in php
2419 2011-06-15 18:57:37 <lorph> so why is that not pool software?
2420 2011-06-15 18:57:46 <Wuked> pushpool is the pool software
2421 2011-06-15 18:57:49 <Wuked> so it goes
2422 2011-06-15 18:57:50 <lorph> where is davout's code
2423 2011-06-15 18:58:04 <Wuked> bitcoin —> pushpool —> front end
2424 2011-06-15 18:58:07 <AntiVigilante> is blockexplorer down?
2425 2011-06-15 18:58:21 <lorph> I know there's a difference between front end and backend, but saying the front end isn't pool software isn't correct
2426 2011-06-15 18:58:57 HIKZIDprao has joined
2427 2011-06-15 18:58:58 Beremat has joined
2428 2011-06-15 18:59:24 <theymos> AntiVigilante: It's really slow because there are too many requests. I'll probably work on some server-side caching today or tomorrow that will improve things.
2429 2011-06-15 18:59:30 <AntiVigilante> lorph it isn't
2430 2011-06-15 18:59:32 GOP-USA_dotcom has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2431 2011-06-15 18:59:45 <AntiVigilante> it doesn't do anything itself
2432 2011-06-15 18:59:50 Lenovo01 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2433 2011-06-15 19:00:10 Lenovo01 has joined
2434 2011-06-15 19:00:37 <lorph> AntiVigilante: by the same logic pushpool doesn't do anything by itself since its a frontend for bitcoin rpc
2435 2011-06-15 19:00:54 <lorph> but anyway, I'm not gonna waste my time arguing about this anymore
2436 2011-06-15 19:01:01 <AntiVigilante> pushpool isn't a frontend
2437 2011-06-15 19:01:06 <AntiVigilante> it's a manager
2438 2011-06-15 19:01:18 <genewitch> well, pushpool is a logging RPC proxy.
2439 2011-06-15 19:01:22 <genewitch> technically.
2440 2011-06-15 19:01:43 knightrage has joined
2441 2011-06-15 19:02:02 <gmaxwell> so that 74fab645ec40cf TXN went through ... took 3.7 hours  :-/
2442 2011-06-15 19:02:14 <knightrage> how are bitcoin addresses created? are there ever any collisions?
2443 2011-06-15 19:02:42 <lorph> knightrage: random ecdsa keys, and yes there can be collisions
2444 2011-06-15 19:02:45 <ius> knightrage: Yes there will be collissions - the problem is finding one ;)
2445 2011-06-15 19:02:54 <gmaxwell> knightrage: They are big enough that a collisions should not happen, but they aren't actually impossible.
2446 2011-06-15 19:03:00 <iz> knightrage: the odds of a collision are astronomically small
2447 2011-06-15 19:03:28 jeffasinger has joined
2448 2011-06-15 19:03:29 <genewitch> same with sha256 collisions, although there are infinite collisions the chances of finding one are pretty small for any given set.
2449 2011-06-15 19:03:35 * knightrage nods
2450 2011-06-15 19:03:56 <genewitch> not sha256, md5 (durp)
2451 2011-06-15 19:03:58 <gmaxwell> genewitch: well, there aren't infinite collisions with finite input. :)
2452 2011-06-15 19:04:27 <genewitch> gmaxwell: one time i wrote collision detectors for md5 and still haven't found any
2453 2011-06-15 19:04:29 <ius> genewitch: Generating a md5 collision isn't too hard though
2454 2011-06-15 19:04:57 <gmaxwell> ius: because of weaknesses now found in md5.
2455 2011-06-15 19:04:59 <anarchyx> http://onlyonetv.com/?page_id=178
2456 2011-06-15 19:05:02 <anarchyx> gavin will be live soon
2457 2011-06-15 19:05:06 <genewitch> who?
2458 2011-06-15 19:05:14 <anarchyx> hes doing a live interview.. just came back from cia
2459 2011-06-15 19:05:15 <gmaxwell> anarchyx: can someone save the stream?
2460 2011-06-15 19:05:19 <Theo`> genewitch: with recent attack methods, finding random MD5 collisions is a matter of seconds
2461 2011-06-15 19:05:28 <ius> gmaxwell: of course
2462 2011-06-15 19:05:29 <anarchyx> gmaxwell: dont know.. i know i cant
2463 2011-06-15 19:06:54 <knightrage> hrm
2464 2011-06-15 19:07:29 <jgarzik> pop pop.  pop pop pop.  pop.
2465 2011-06-15 19:07:37 <jgarzik> (on the live stream...)
2466 2011-06-15 19:08:03 GOP-USA_dotcom has joined
2467 2011-06-15 19:08:58 <theymos> When is the live show scheduled for?
2468 2011-06-15 19:10:22 <emock> fancy intro
2469 2011-06-15 19:11:04 <knightrage> very fancy
2470 2011-06-15 19:11:04 <knightrage> heh
2471 2011-06-15 19:11:07 <emock> and nice watch
2472 2011-06-15 19:11:13 <emock> wrist watch
2473 2011-06-15 19:11:44 <D0han> i hear skype sounds
2474 2011-06-15 19:12:15 IoWn3rU has joined
2475 2011-06-15 19:12:16 <emock> duh…  and I was trying to figure out who was Skyping me
2476 2011-06-15 19:12:28 <Theo`> hehe
2477 2011-06-15 19:12:36 IoWn3rU_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2478 2011-06-15 19:13:49 <D0han> its confusing..
2479 2011-06-15 19:13:56 stuhood has joined
2480 2011-06-15 19:13:57 AlonzoTG has joined
2481 2011-06-15 19:14:06 <AlonzoTG> 'ello.
2482 2011-06-15 19:14:56 <knightrage> heya
2483 2011-06-15 19:14:57 <AlonzoTG> I'm trying to build bitcoin 'cuz the default build doesn't work. Unfortunately my include files are all over the place, my db_cxx.h is in /usr/include/db4.8/
2484 2011-06-15 19:15:14 ChuckSchumer has joined
2485 2011-06-15 19:15:25 <gmaxwell> Any guesses why http://blockexplorer.com/tx/74fab645ec40cf34f7629ac73fd9f4d850be81dadb3b1de0a6c45e5b12ff0505  took over three and a half hours to confirm?
2486 2011-06-15 19:15:48 <Wuked> If I have a block solution, how can I get the transactions in that block ?
2487 2011-06-15 19:16:23 <Wuked> I've got the block has of course from the solution
2488 2011-06-15 19:16:27 <Wuked> and I can get the timestamp etc
2489 2011-06-15 19:16:43 <Wuked> but I'm lost on how to find the transactions
2490 2011-06-15 19:16:44 sipa has joined
2491 2011-06-15 19:16:48 <theymos> You can't get the transactions from just the block header.
2492 2011-06-15 19:17:02 <Wuked> I see that's what I thought
2493 2011-06-15 19:17:12 <Wuked> I was pulling that information down form blockheader
2494 2011-06-15 19:17:16 <gmaxwell> Wuked: look up the block in the blockchain. The header only has a hash that depends on the txn, not the txn themselves.
2495 2011-06-15 19:17:17 <stuhood> are there any theories about who joined with > 5 TH/s last night? or is bitcoinwatch.com just wonky
2496 2011-06-15 19:17:18 <Wuked> but of course that's no use if it's down
2497 2011-06-15 19:17:33 <gmaxwell> stuhood: bitcoin watch is always wrong after a difficulty change
2498 2011-06-15 19:17:46 <gmaxwell> stuhood: it's probably counting blocks before the change as having the new difficulty.
2499 2011-06-15 19:17:50 <sipa> stuhood: use http://bitcoin.sipa.be :)
2500 2011-06-15 19:17:59 Jaagu has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2501 2011-06-15 19:18:04 <gmaxwell> stuhood: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png < is good
2502 2011-06-15 19:18:17 <stuhood> that also shows the massive increase
2503 2011-06-15 19:18:18 <jgarzik> anarchyx: is that show starting now?  4pm EST?
2504 2011-06-15 19:18:24 <sipa> the -2k version is very susceptible to random variation as well
2505 2011-06-15 19:18:27 Lenovo_aaa has joined
2506 2011-06-15 19:18:34 <vegard> woo, last difficulty jump looks HUGE o.o
2507 2011-06-15 19:18:41 bucketmouse has joined
2508 2011-06-15 19:18:42 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2509 2011-06-15 19:18:51 <gmaxwell> stuhood: the very instant of the diffiuclty change bitcoinwatch was claiming 20 or something like that.
2510 2011-06-15 19:19:02 <stuhood> we're finding ~20 blocks an hour _immediately_ after a difficulty change?
2511 2011-06-15 19:19:11 <gmaxwell> difficulty*
2512 2011-06-15 19:19:21 <theymos> It probably doesn't look at blocks before the last retarget.
2513 2011-06-15 19:19:23 <gmaxwell> stuhood: no, it was claiming 20TH.
2514 2011-06-15 19:19:46 <gmaxwell> theymos: or that. but I've never seen it claim a low value.
2515 2011-06-15 19:19:50 <stuhood> gmaxwell: i mean, now: looking at bitcoinmonitor.com there were 10 blocks found in the last 30 minutes
2516 2011-06-15 19:20:02 Lenovo01 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2517 2011-06-15 19:20:12 stahi has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2518 2011-06-15 19:20:13 <gmaxwell> stuhood: sure, we've had 10 in 30 a month ago too. it happens from time to time.
2519 2011-06-15 19:20:15 <theymos> gmaxwell: If the next few blocks are solved quickly, it results in a very high estimate.
2520 2011-06-15 19:20:46 <galaxyAbstractor> oh god BCBot is annoying, it keeps highlighting me in the server window...
2521 2011-06-15 19:20:50 <gmaxwell> theymos: righ, but if it was just resetting the averag I'd expect it to show up low sometimes, and so far every time I've looked (5 diff changes?) it's been high.
2522 2011-06-15 19:20:58 <gmaxwell> theymos: regardless, it's wonky
2523 2011-06-15 19:21:19 <gmaxwell> sipa: can you adjust the scaling on the 2k graph so that it's less prone to going off scale?
2524 2011-06-15 19:21:57 <stuhood> alright… waiting until things stabilize i guess. but if i was going to bring a huge cluster into the network, i'd do it right after a difficulty change
2525 2011-06-15 19:22:15 * stuhood tin hat
2526 2011-06-15 19:22:16 <gmaxwell> stuhood: why?
2527 2011-06-15 19:22:37 <gmaxwell> and lose the benefit of mining at the prior lower difficulty? feh.
2528 2011-06-15 19:22:49 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2529 2011-06-15 19:23:02 <gmaxwell> It's linear. you won't increase your income by delaying.
2530 2011-06-15 19:23:33 viggi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2531 2011-06-15 19:23:35 <stuhood> is it? ok… hadn't really done the math there
2532 2011-06-15 19:24:06 <theymos> gmaxwell: I think that's because difficulty adjustments usually end up too low. The sample is taken over the whole 2016 blocks, but difficulty increases throughout the entire thing, so the end result is too low. At the start of the next "retarget period", difficulty immediately needs to adjust way upward.
2533 2011-06-15 19:24:16 syke has joined
2534 2011-06-15 19:24:21 El-Loco has quit ()
2535 2011-06-15 19:24:23 viggi has joined
2536 2011-06-15 19:24:39 <gmaxwell> theymos: that shouldn't change an estimate of hashrate.
2537 2011-06-15 19:25:03 <gmaxwell> The should only be why a measure of blocks/hour would be >6 during growth right at the start.
2538 2011-06-15 19:26:37 Lenovo_aaa has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2539 2011-06-15 19:26:49 <theymos> BitcoinCharts gets its total network hashrate by dividing http://blockexplorer.com/q/hashestowin by http://blockexplorer.com/q/interval/200 . This is inaccurate due to getting blocks from before the retarget. Maybe BitcoinWatch does something similar.
2540 2011-06-15 19:27:12 Lenovo_aaa has joined
2541 2011-06-15 19:27:19 inh has joined
2542 2011-06-15 19:27:30 <sipa> gmaxwell: i'll rescale them if it remains this high
2543 2011-06-15 19:27:33 <inh> can anyone explain to me how each miner is doing unique work? the only thing that would make it unique is transaction address for 50 btc (null if mining in pool) and time and nonce
2544 2011-06-15 19:27:38 <inh> is that really all that makes it unique?
2545 2011-06-15 19:27:41 <forrestv> is there a simple way to decide which txs to include in a block?
2546 2011-06-15 19:27:50 <theymos> inh: Yes, but that's enough.
2547 2011-06-15 19:28:10 Lenovo_aaa has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2548 2011-06-15 19:28:17 <gmaxwell> theymos: woot. I called the BitcoinCharts behavior then. :)
2549 2011-06-15 19:28:25 <forrestv> i was thinking - keep a list of all txs received from a trusted bitcoind, and drop any that have any reference from any new blocks
2550 2011-06-15 19:28:27 <forrestv> would that work?
2551 2011-06-15 19:28:52 <gmaxwell> inh: extranonce too, and different sets of txns.
2552 2011-06-15 19:28:56 Lenovo_aaa has joined
2553 2011-06-15 19:29:07 <gmaxwell> inh: but it only needs a single bit different to make it differnt.
2554 2011-06-15 19:29:10 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2555 2011-06-15 19:29:26 * gmaxwell needs a new keyboard.
2556 2011-06-15 19:29:28 <forrestv> inh, the generation address isn't null for a pool; it goes to the pool owner
2557 2011-06-15 19:29:51 <gmaxwell> hah I'd missed the "null if mining in pool".
2558 2011-06-15 19:29:59 <Joric> i fucking love github, so clean, so pure
2559 2011-06-15 19:30:15 <gmaxwell> the pool participants would be pretty pissed if the pool was just throwing money away.
2560 2011-06-15 19:30:29 <forrestv> can anyone comment on my idea? :p
2561 2011-06-15 19:30:32 <inh> forrestv i know its not null,but it would (probably) be the same for all miners on the pool
2562 2011-06-15 19:30:43 HIKZIDprao has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2563 2011-06-15 19:30:54 <forrestv> ahh. yeah, the extranonce for each worker is different
2564 2011-06-15 19:30:56 <gmaxwell> Joric: so fking annoying to find clone urls when you land on a page for some branch via the web.
2565 2011-06-15 19:30:57 <inh> gmaxwell so yea, basically the only thing that matters (in theory) is what time your miner started working on the hash
2566 2011-06-15 19:31:15 <inh> istn extranonce just an incrmeental counter of how many times the nonce rolled over?
2567 2011-06-15 19:31:24 <gmaxwell> inh: no. The only thing that matters is much hashing you're doing.
2568 2011-06-15 19:31:30 <gmaxwell> inh: it's not a race.
2569 2011-06-15 19:31:39 <theymos> Pools can space extraNonce values out for workers.
2570 2011-06-15 19:32:05 <gmaxwell> inh: every hash operation has an equal 1/(big) prior chance of being a solution.
2571 2011-06-15 19:32:05 <ajf> I'm working on an alternative Bitcoin GUI - http://i.imgur.com/44Oqp.png - thoughts?
2572 2011-06-15 19:32:12 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
2573 2011-06-15 19:32:28 <inh> i guess i shall look in to the extranonce then :) thanks guys
2574 2011-06-15 19:32:55 <gmaxwell> inh: .. why?
2575 2011-06-15 19:34:10 r2k has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2576 2011-06-15 19:35:13 <Theo`> ajf: looks like the original one for me
2577 2011-06-15 19:35:25 <ius> theymos: Did you happen to check the IP of the stealer-sending guy and compare it to the improved-miner stealer of last week? (if you happened to see that)
2578 2011-06-15 19:35:39 <ius> Might be worth banning him by IP if he didn't use tor or anything
2579 2011-06-15 19:35:54 espinet has quit (Quit: espinet)
2580 2011-06-15 19:36:01 <theymos> They were both using Tor.
2581 2011-06-15 19:36:13 <inh> gmaxwell doing starting investigations in to an FPGA cluster, wondering how to make sure each FPGA is doing unique work
2582 2011-06-15 19:36:22 <ius> Ah, dang
2583 2011-06-15 19:36:37 <ius> inh: That should be the least of your issues
2584 2011-06-15 19:37:03 <ius> bitcoind handles things pretty well atm, as long as you keep the number of reqs/s under 128, I think
2585 2011-06-15 19:37:10 vikarti has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2586 2011-06-15 19:37:10 <D0han> same way as with GPUs?
2587 2011-06-15 19:37:21 unclemantis has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2588 2011-06-15 19:37:56 vikarti has joined
2589 2011-06-15 19:38:12 <ius> Is the interview over btw?
2590 2011-06-15 19:38:21 <gmaxwell> inh: just doing getworks to bitcoind and feeding the headers to your cluster should be fine. If you need more space you can let them advance the timestamp a bit.
2591 2011-06-15 19:38:38 <gmaxwell> inh: just be sure to adjust the check in bitcoin so that you don't duplicate.
2592 2011-06-15 19:39:39 underscor has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2593 2011-06-15 19:40:08 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2594 2011-06-15 19:40:42 redshark1802 has joined
2595 2011-06-15 19:41:28 <MC1984> so uhh
2596 2011-06-15 19:41:40 <MC1984> whats the word ont he attack vector used on that guy who had 25k coins stolen
2597 2011-06-15 19:41:49 stuhood has left ()
2598 2011-06-15 19:42:45 <luke-jr> MC1984: "idiot installed a virus"?
2599 2011-06-15 19:42:57 sirius has joined
2600 2011-06-15 19:43:05 <MC1984> yeah but it was obviously targetted
2601 2011-06-15 19:43:19 <MC1984> or just extremely lucky
2602 2011-06-15 19:43:21 Breign has quit ()
2603 2011-06-15 19:43:22 <ius> Might be a targeted attack using an 0day, if he boasted about his balance in the wrong places
2604 2011-06-15 19:43:45 <iera> might be
2605 2011-06-15 19:45:39 T_X has joined
2606 2011-06-15 19:46:20 <luke-jr> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17083.msg222191
2607 2011-06-15 19:46:23 <luke-jr> lol
2608 2011-06-15 19:48:04 <iz> heh
2609 2011-06-15 19:48:32 red_dawn_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2610 2011-06-15 19:49:54 <iz> MC1984: I did backup my wallet.dat file to dropbox, wuala, and spideroak.   http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=16457.msg214649#msg214649
2611 2011-06-15 19:50:53 <theymos> Maybe an employee of one of those companies was the one who stole it. IIRC, dropbox and SpiderOak do encryption in an insecure way.
2612 2011-06-15 19:51:04 Lenovo_aaa has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2613 2011-06-15 19:51:12 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2614 2011-06-15 19:51:19 <iz> dropbox doesn't encrypt anything really
2615 2011-06-15 19:51:29 <iz> even though they gave ppl the impression that they did
2616 2011-06-15 19:51:43 <ius> Dropbox and their revolutionary method of deduping encrypted data
2617 2011-06-15 19:51:50 cryptocnt has joined
2618 2011-06-15 19:51:51 <iz> haha yeah
2619 2011-06-15 19:52:06 <_dr> well, you can always encrypt before sending it to your dropbox
2620 2011-06-15 19:52:14 <_dr> i recommend encfs
2621 2011-06-15 19:52:18 <iz> duping ppl is easier than deduping encrypted data
2622 2011-06-15 19:52:42 <redshark1802> hello, i just tried installing pushpool but now im running into this: http://pastebin.com/jCHsqTED
2623 2011-06-15 19:53:01 <redshark1802> i already purged all libcurl related stuff and installed it again
2624 2011-06-15 19:53:04 <Joric> what will happen if user will send money to address "1" ?
2625 2011-06-15 19:53:10 <redshark1802> os ubuntu 11.04
2626 2011-06-15 19:53:17 <Joric> will it show up in a blockexplorer?
2627 2011-06-15 19:53:19 <theymos> Joric: Try it. It won't work.
2628 2011-06-15 19:53:22 <ius> redshark1802: Got the devel package too?
2629 2011-06-15 19:53:28 <redshark1802> yes
2630 2011-06-15 19:53:56 <Wuked> theymos, the url for raw block on testnet on blockexplorer is http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/rawblock/ , is the url for normal raw block just http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/rawblock/ ?
2631 2011-06-15 19:54:11 <Joric> theymos, is it gui limitations or a protocol limitations?
2632 2011-06-15 19:54:16 <ius> redshark1802: And what about curl-config --version?
2633 2011-06-15 19:54:43 <ius> Joric: I guess the network just laughs at you
2634 2011-06-15 19:54:49 <redshark1802> libcurl 7.21.3
2635 2011-06-15 19:54:56 never_sleep has joined
2636 2011-06-15 19:55:09 <theymos> Wuked: Without the /testnet. Testnet URLs are exactly the same except that they are preceded with /testnet.
2637 2011-06-15 19:55:11 neversleep has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2638 2011-06-15 19:55:33 <theymos> Joric: There's no way to get the public key hash from just "1". It doesn't make any sense.
2639 2011-06-15 19:55:34 <redshark1802> i did compile it on two other machines using debian squeeze without a problem
2640 2011-06-15 19:55:40 <Joric> ius, with all that, what will happen with moneys?
2641 2011-06-15 19:56:01 <ius> redshark1802: Do you have a configue.log? :)
2642 2011-06-15 19:56:05 <ius> configure.log*
2643 2011-06-15 19:56:23 <Wuked> thanks
2644 2011-06-15 19:56:26 <Joric> transaction would't be ever confirmed, right? it'l stay in a wallet?
2645 2011-06-15 19:56:59 <iz> Joric: you could do that to a valid bitcoin addr that doesn't exist.. but "1" is not valid
2646 2011-06-15 19:57:04 wiedi has quit (Quit: all you need to do is STOP)
2647 2011-06-15 19:57:52 <theymos> Joric: Bitcoin won't let you create a transaction like that. I suppose you could make a valid transaction to an empty public key hash, though it would not be redeemable.
2648 2011-06-15 19:57:56 <redshark1802> here is the config.log http://pastebin.com/FrnPK4w6
2649 2011-06-15 19:58:14 <iz> Joric: it's like burning dollar bills if you do that.. just xfering money to a place no one can ever use it again
2650 2011-06-15 19:58:46 <sipa> bbe down?
2651 2011-06-15 19:59:29 <Joric> iz, i guess it noone would confirm that it'll stay in a wallet
2652 2011-06-15 19:59:33 <theymos> sipa: It's just really slow. I'll be working on it today or tomorrow. I need to do much more caching so I can increase the maximum number of connections.
2653 2011-06-15 19:59:46 <sipa> theymos: take your time :)
2654 2011-06-15 20:00:38 <AntiVigilante> theymos: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/9810f73cce30348a8bf3d22fd0d6f766e1f8e3ba8a75dd347139c79762aba20a#o0 <- transaction for missing receiving address
2655 2011-06-15 20:01:48 <iz> Joric: i believe the transaction can be confirmed, w/out having been received..  so it's just stuck out there in a block somewhere.. and no one can recieve it.. and you can't spend it again, because that would be double spending
2656 2011-06-15 20:02:28 <jgarzik> going live - http://onlyonetv.com/?page_id=178
2657 2011-06-15 20:02:31 Bwaah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2658 2011-06-15 20:03:16 <ius> redshark1802: Hmm. libidn-devel?
2659 2011-06-15 20:03:49 <theymos> AntiVigilante: What is that?
2660 2011-06-15 20:04:05 <redshark1802> hold on a sec
2661 2011-06-15 20:04:19 <AntiVigilante> that's the transaction id for the send to the missing address
2662 2011-06-15 20:04:34 <gmaxwell> AntiVigilante: if the TXN is in blockexp then its not reversable anymore. You're toast. Sorry.
2663 2011-06-15 20:04:55 <AntiVigilante> hmm
2664 2011-06-15 20:05:05 <theymos> AntiVigilante: That got in a block a long time ago. Check the time.
2665 2011-06-15 20:05:30 <AntiVigilante> so it's in limbo
2666 2011-06-15 20:05:41 <gmaxwell> It's just lost. There are a lot of lost coins.
2667 2011-06-15 20:05:55 <redshark1802> libidn11-dev?
2668 2011-06-15 20:05:59 <redshark1802> already installed
2669 2011-06-15 20:06:32 <theymos> The live show is on now.
2670 2011-06-15 20:09:08 <Joric> jgarzik, what will happen if i'll send btc to address '1'?
2671 2011-06-15 20:09:15 <sipa> Joric: the client will refuse it
2672 2011-06-15 20:09:20 <sipa> as it is not a valid address
2673 2011-06-15 20:09:29 <Joric> it happened with a stock exchange
2674 2011-06-15 20:09:33 <sipa> ?
2675 2011-06-15 20:09:41 <Joric> on withdrawal
2676 2011-06-15 20:09:51 <theymos> It didn't. It doesn't make any sense. The money never left that client.
2677 2011-06-15 20:09:52 <gmaxwell> Joric: then their software is garbage and they still have the money, nag them.
2678 2011-06-15 20:09:54 <Joric> tradehill.com, to be specific
2679 2011-06-15 20:10:09 <Joric> i'll write them a letter
2680 2011-06-15 20:10:18 <Joric> it still shows 'in progress'
2681 2011-06-15 20:10:30 <redshark1802> solved it, thank you very much
2682 2011-06-15 20:10:43 Breign has joined
2683 2011-06-15 20:10:57 <sipa> is this show live?
2684 2011-06-15 20:10:58 <ius> redshark1802: How? Looks like your curl is dodgy
2685 2011-06-15 20:10:59 <redshark1802> i downloaded the libidn package from  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libidn/1.20-1ubuntu1 and compiled it
2686 2011-06-15 20:11:13 <theymos> sipa: Yes.
2687 2011-06-15 20:11:15 <gmaxwell> so, is anything being done to nag people (e.g. big pools) to upgrade to the .22/.23 fee rules?
2688 2011-06-15 20:12:10 Teslah has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2689 2011-06-15 20:12:15 <galaxyAbstractor> Hm, can I get some opinions on saving users credentials and automatically authenticate on every payment in my firefox addon, or let the user authenticate once per session, and have the option to save the credentials in the login box firefox provides? What would be the safest?
2690 2011-06-15 20:12:20 <iz> i was running a small pool, and i had to use the .21 bitcoind
2691 2011-06-15 20:12:32 <Joric> what's with blockexplorer where are you hosting it?
2692 2011-06-15 20:12:42 zyb has joined
2693 2011-06-15 20:12:49 robin_ has joined
2694 2011-06-15 20:12:53 <gmaxwell> I did a sendmany (5*0.0025 with 0.0005 fee, to a bunch of newbies) today which should have been fine under the .22 rules, and it was widely forwarded but took 3.5 hr to get into a block. So I'm expecting users to have a bad expirence with .23.
2695 2011-06-15 20:12:54 <redshark1802> can you give me a donation address, even though i have a very small amount i want to thank you with a bit
2696 2011-06-15 20:13:01 <theymos> Joric: I'm hosting it on the computer sitting two feet behind me :)
2697 2011-06-15 20:13:06 <gmaxwell> iz: did you ever figure out the cause of the crash?
2698 2011-06-15 20:13:22 <iz> because .22 wouldn't work right w/ pushpool and (particularly blkmond would exit right away)
2699 2011-06-15 20:13:23 <vegard> blockexplorer seems down :-/
2700 2011-06-15 20:13:33 dirtyfilthy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2701 2011-06-15 20:13:57 <iz> nope, i tried tweaking a few things in blkmond.. and then i also asked in here
2702 2011-06-15 20:14:00 <knightrage> vegard yeah its been having connectivity issues every now and then
2703 2011-06-15 20:14:04 robin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2704 2011-06-15 20:14:04 robin_ is now known as robin
2705 2011-06-15 20:14:10 <iz> and someone told me generation was taken out of .22 completely..
2706 2011-06-15 20:14:18 <gmaxwell> ...!
2707 2011-06-15 20:14:20 <iz> so i went back to .21 and it kept working..
2708 2011-06-15 20:14:21 <gmaxwell> Thats not true.
2709 2011-06-15 20:14:25 <gmaxwell> Someone should be stabbed.
2710 2011-06-15 20:14:33 <theymos> The GUI option to generate was removed.
2711 2011-06-15 20:14:34 <sipa> iz: it's not, just not visible from the GUI
2712 2011-06-15 20:14:37 <gmaxwell> .22 doesn't have the gui for internal generation... but thats it.
2713 2011-06-15 20:14:40 <sipa> as you definitely shouldn't use it anyway
2714 2011-06-15 20:14:40 <iz> but still, i couldn't figure out how to get blkmond to work with .22
2715 2011-06-15 20:14:54 <iz> yeah, that's what i thought.. just out of the GUI
2716 2011-06-15 20:15:10 <iz> but the behaviour i was seeing was confirming what he said.. so i didn't question it
2717 2011-06-15 20:15:25 <iz> try using the .22 bitcoind w/ pushpool and blkmond
2718 2011-06-15 20:15:37 alystair has joined
2719 2011-06-15 20:16:08 <D0han> i can send btc to specific address, right? but what about fees? how miners can collect them?
2720 2011-06-15 20:16:55 <gmaxwell> D0han: they are sent the same way as the new coin generated in the block.
2721 2011-06-15 20:16:56 <iz> D0han: miners collect the fees by securing ppl's transactions in blocks.. if a miner solves the block that secures your transaction, the miner gets the tx fee for it
2722 2011-06-15 20:17:22 <D0han> thx gmaxwell
2723 2011-06-15 20:18:31 RenaKunisaki has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2724 2011-06-15 20:19:04 RenaKunisaki has joined
2725 2011-06-15 20:21:13 <ius> redshark1802: Nah it's fine, thanks though
2726 2011-06-15 20:23:39 simkiss is now known as minimoose3
2727 2011-06-15 20:25:25 <redshark1802> okay, thanks ;)
2728 2011-06-15 20:27:00 TommyBoy3G has quit ()
2729 2011-06-15 20:28:04 Teslah has joined
2730 2011-06-15 20:28:05 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
2731 2011-06-15 20:28:20 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
2732 2011-06-15 20:28:20 Blitzboom has joined
2733 2011-06-15 20:29:47 GOP-USA_dotcom has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2734 2011-06-15 20:30:04 karnac_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2735 2011-06-15 20:30:30 karnac has joined
2736 2011-06-15 20:31:51 _ape has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2737 2011-06-15 20:32:13 karnac has quit (Client Quit)
2738 2011-06-15 20:32:31 GOP-USA_dotcom has joined
2739 2011-06-15 20:33:10 karnac has joined
2740 2011-06-15 20:34:46 CIA-90 has quit ()
2741 2011-06-15 20:34:56 ChuckSchumer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2742 2011-06-15 20:37:34 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2743 2011-06-15 20:39:31 TommyBoy3G has joined
2744 2011-06-15 20:40:43 d1234 has joined
2745 2011-06-15 20:42:10 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
2746 2011-06-15 20:42:29 <jeffasinger> anyone worked with the jsonrpc library for python that's mentioned on the wiki?
2747 2011-06-15 20:43:40 karnac has joined
2748 2011-06-15 20:44:22 <ius> Weird
2749 2011-06-15 20:44:28 Speeder has joined
2750 2011-06-15 20:44:35 <ius> All of a sudden the forum is on steroids again
2751 2011-06-15 20:44:46 <ius> theymos: Did you touch anything?
2752 2011-06-15 20:44:58 InstantBTC has joined
2753 2011-06-15 20:45:02 <theymos> No. It happens randomly, it seems.
2754 2011-06-15 20:45:08 redshark1802 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2755 2011-06-15 20:45:14 <diki> tycho they was speakin' about ya]
2756 2011-06-15 20:45:19 <ius> Odd stuff.
2757 2011-06-15 20:45:27 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2758 2011-06-15 20:45:30 loopyduck has joined
2759 2011-06-15 20:45:32 <phantomcircuit> theymos, it's slicehost, they throttle network activity thinking it's torrents
2760 2011-06-15 20:45:36 <phantomcircuit> theymos, ie, they dumb
2761 2011-06-15 20:45:43 <theymos> Is that known for sure?
2762 2011-06-15 20:46:02 <phantomcircuit> im 99% they're retarded
2763 2011-06-15 20:46:03 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2764 2011-06-15 20:46:31 GOP-USA_dotcom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2765 2011-06-15 20:46:41 karnac has quit (Client Quit)
2766 2011-06-15 20:46:46 GOP-USA_dotcom has joined
2767 2011-06-15 20:47:29 pusle has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2768 2011-06-15 20:47:33 kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2769 2011-06-15 20:47:49 karnac has joined
2770 2011-06-15 20:47:57 <phantomcircuit> theymos, someone in the channel said they oversell something ridiculous like 500:1
2771 2011-06-15 20:48:21 tandy80 has joined
2772 2011-06-15 20:48:30 tandy80 has left ()
2773 2011-06-15 20:48:31 TommyBoy3G has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2774 2011-06-15 20:48:41 karnac has quit (Client Quit)
2775 2011-06-15 20:49:49 karnac has joined
2776 2011-06-15 20:50:26 <ius> Couldn't that be (potentially) easily verified by wgetting some 100mb.bin as stuff is slow?
2777 2011-06-15 20:51:05 <phantomcircuit> ius, it's trivially verified with wireshark
2778 2011-06-15 20:51:18 mmoya has joined
2779 2011-06-15 20:51:24 <phantomcircuit> SYN,SYN/ACK, HTTP request, HUGE DELAY, HTTP response
2780 2011-06-15 20:51:35 <ius> That would be the next step :p
2781 2011-06-15 20:52:33 <ius> Well, you'd need to be sure it's not your webserver being slow I guess (slowloris & friends - although I didn't even check what bitcoin.org runs ;) )
2782 2011-06-15 20:53:20 <ius> If they do cap things I guess it could indeed be figured by looking at tcp behaviour
2783 2011-06-15 20:53:30 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
2784 2011-06-15 20:53:58 <phantomcircuit> ius, theymos said it wasn't the cpu/memory/disk issue
2785 2011-06-15 20:54:01 <phantomcircuit> that's what im going on
2786 2011-06-15 20:54:07 paxos1 has joined
2787 2011-06-15 20:54:23 <ius> Yeah, fair enough
2788 2011-06-15 20:54:30 <theymos> A pause after the http request could indicate some misconfiguration on the server. Maybe some limit I don't know about.
2789 2011-06-15 20:54:49 <Moredread> is it planned to include one of the key export/import patches in the mainline client?
2790 2011-06-15 20:54:50 <phantomcircuit> theymos, it more likely indicates a full bucket
2791 2011-06-15 20:55:14 <midnightmagic> ;;bc,stats
2792 2011-06-15 20:55:34 <paxos1> I seem to get getting database corruption when killing bitcoind (linux); anyone know what the safest signal for killing the daemon is?
2793 2011-06-15 20:55:49 <paxos1> s/get/be/
2794 2011-06-15 20:55:57 <theymos> SIGINT
2795 2011-06-15 20:55:58 CIA-103 has joined
2796 2011-06-15 20:56:15 <paxos1> theymos: and it should close of the db's safely?
2797 2011-06-15 20:56:21 <Ycros> um what
2798 2011-06-15 20:56:24 <paxos1> err.. s/of/out/
2799 2011-06-15 20:56:32 <theymos> Yes.
2800 2011-06-15 20:56:34 <Ycros> if something corrups data just because it's killed then it doesn't know how to write to disk safely
2801 2011-06-15 20:57:10 <phantomcircuit> Ycros, bitcoind uses bdb in asyncronous write mode, otherwise performance would be even more shit than it is already
2802 2011-06-15 20:57:32 <paxos1> theymos: will give it a good workout
2803 2011-06-15 20:57:37 <Joric> "other" strikes back - http://goo.gl/fcLy8
2804 2011-06-15 20:57:47 <Ycros> but it also does explain why bitcoin sometimes shits itself on my machine
2805 2011-06-15 20:57:54 <Joric> i wonder what has happened with deepbit
2806 2011-06-15 20:58:08 dvide has joined
2807 2011-06-15 20:58:12 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
2808 2011-06-15 20:58:18 r1x1us has joined
2809 2011-06-15 20:58:18 <gmaxwell> Joric: those graphs are wacked after the difficulty change.
2810 2011-06-15 20:58:19 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
2811 2011-06-15 20:58:19 shLONG has quit ()
2812 2011-06-15 20:58:33 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2813 2011-06-15 20:58:34 <Ycros> phantomcircuit: and that can't recover nicely?
2814 2011-06-15 20:58:39 <Joric> i could be a secure government claster )
2815 2011-06-15 20:58:43 <Joric> *it
2816 2011-06-15 20:58:59 <phantomcircuit> Ycros, it means that if bitcoind gets killed in the middle of a write it will be completely fucked
2817 2011-06-15 20:59:14 <Ycros> that is retarded
2818 2011-06-15 20:59:15 <phantomcircuit> and because bdb doesn't use a WAL it is slow as fuck for lots of updates
2819 2011-06-15 20:59:21 <phantomcircuit> yes it is retarded
2820 2011-06-15 20:59:22 <phantomcircuit> lol
2821 2011-06-15 20:59:38 <phantomcircuit> but to be fair getting synchronous writes to work with bitcoin is a massive pita
2822 2011-06-15 20:59:59 <phantomcircuit> the half implementation in python i wrote i spent a good 50% of the time getting synchronous sqlite3 to work fast enough
2823 2011-06-15 21:00:27 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2824 2011-06-15 21:01:27 m00p has joined
2825 2011-06-15 21:02:05 abragin has quit ()
2826 2011-06-15 21:02:25 <cosurgi> who is hosting blockexplorer?
2827 2011-06-15 21:02:42 <cosurgi> is he ddosed?
2828 2011-06-15 21:02:47 <ius> theymos
2829 2011-06-15 21:02:55 <ius> (sorry, hilighting you alot, had to ;) )
2830 2011-06-15 21:03:31 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2831 2011-06-15 21:03:40 <cosurgi> theymos: what happened? I'm wondering if we could host a mirror somewhere. maybe each pool could mirror blockexplorer?
2832 2011-06-15 21:03:51 <cosurgi> theymos: a ddos?
2833 2011-06-15 21:04:23 <cosurgi> there was a big steal, so no wonder that thief wants to hide blocks, until his theft is covered by lots of blocks.
2834 2011-06-15 21:06:21 underscor has joined
2835 2011-06-15 21:07:27 <sytse> mm, I should buy myself a smart card reader and implement smart card support in bitcoin.. we do need protection against keyloggers I think
2836 2011-06-15 21:07:29 <theymos> Probably it's not a DoS attack. There are a lot of requests, though: 338807 so far today. What's happening is that the number of requests is exceeding my Apache's configured maxconnections, and I can't increase this limit without overwhelming my database and running out of memory. I'm going to do server-side caching on more pages so I can increase the limit.
2837 2011-06-15 21:08:11 <BCBot>  Stats: http://bit.ly/bitcoin-irc-stats
2838 2011-06-15 21:08:16 abragin has joined
2839 2011-06-15 21:08:35 prax has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2840 2011-06-15 21:08:53 <Ycros> theymos: throw a reverse proxy in front of apache
2841 2011-06-15 21:10:19 <theymos> I wrote my own caching thing recently. Some of the /q pages are already using it, but I didn't get around to setting it up for other pages yet.
2842 2011-06-15 21:10:24 <emock> woot!  got it compiled...
2843 2011-06-15 21:10:35 <emock> and linked ;-)
2844 2011-06-15 21:10:37 <BCBot>  Stats: http://bit.ly/bitcoin-irc-stats
2845 2011-06-15 21:10:46 Gary13579 has joined
2846 2011-06-15 21:11:13 <Ycros> varnish works pretty well... though some find just throwing nginx in front of apache helps a lot ;)
2847 2011-06-15 21:11:43 <jgarzik> yah, reverse proxy caches
2848 2011-06-15 21:11:45 darkstuff has joined
2849 2011-06-15 21:11:58 <jgarzik> serve as a front-line defense, too, keeping the whole world away from the primary server
2850 2011-06-15 21:12:09 th3sl33p3r has joined
2851 2011-06-15 21:12:16 <ius> sytse: Do you know of any affordable smartcard which supports setting one or multiple ECDSA keys and allow signing arbitrary messages?
2852 2011-06-15 21:12:30 j^ has joined
2853 2011-06-15 21:12:52 <ius> And you're still stuck with the trojan feeding 'evil' plaintext to your smartcard ;)
2854 2011-06-15 21:14:30 osmosis has joined
2855 2011-06-15 21:14:58 wiedi has joined
2856 2011-06-15 21:15:54 ^1bitc0inplz has joined
2857 2011-06-15 21:17:41 <paxos1> theymos: SIGINT seems to have fixed my problem.. thank you!
2858 2011-06-15 21:17:50 <theymos> You're welcome.
2859 2011-06-15 21:18:15 <md2k7> although you have to admit bitcoind does shut down quite a while
2860 2011-06-15 21:18:57 <paxos1> md2k7: ?
2861 2011-06-15 21:19:21 <md2k7> paxos1: I meant that it takes a long time from sending SIGINT until it actually is dead.
2862 2011-06-15 21:19:32 <ius> Re: apache - maybe it's worth investigating switching to nginx + php-fpm? Supposed to be pretty snappy
2863 2011-06-15 21:19:42 <Joric> does anyone know another blockexplorer online?
2864 2011-06-15 21:20:03 <paxos1> md2k7: hmm.. I better put a watch delay in my init script
2865 2011-06-15 21:20:09 <loopyduck> is there a base miner source i can use to port to other languages like javascript, etc?
2866 2011-06-15 21:20:20 <paxos1> md2k7: what is the longest you've seen?
2867 2011-06-15 21:20:20 Jesque has joined
2868 2011-06-15 21:20:30 <ius> loopyduck: check out https://github.com/jgarzik/pyminer/
2869 2011-06-15 21:20:42 <loopyduck> thank you ius
2870 2011-06-15 21:20:48 Gary13579 has left ("Leaving")
2871 2011-06-15 21:21:23 <^1bitc0inplz> loopyduck: https://github.com/jwhitehorn/jsMiner
2872 2011-06-15 21:21:32 <md2k7> paxos1: I never measured, it just feels like half a minute or so... probably depends on your hardware - mine is a laptop which is 3 years old.
2873 2011-06-15 21:21:39 <Joric> loopyduck, there's are several js miners already ie. http://bitp.it
2874 2011-06-15 21:22:04 <paxos1> md2k7: roger
2875 2011-06-15 21:22:32 nhodges has joined
2876 2011-06-15 21:22:52 r1x1us has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2877 2011-06-15 21:23:10 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|Sleep
2878 2011-06-15 21:23:14 Zarutian has joined
2879 2011-06-15 21:23:16 <Joric> lol bitp.it is creating it's own pool, it would be fun if they'll get > 50%
2880 2011-06-15 21:23:17 <loopyduck> Joric, no longer accepting registrations
2881 2011-06-15 21:23:29 darkstuff has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2882 2011-06-15 21:23:43 eoss has joined
2883 2011-06-15 21:24:00 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2884 2011-06-15 21:24:16 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
2885 2011-06-15 21:25:45 Zefir has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2886 2011-06-15 21:26:39 <Joric> http://blockexplorer.com/address/1, apparently my funds are not here, doubt they came out of a stock exchange
2887 2011-06-15 21:27:20 <Joric> i guess they didn't add address validation by purpose
2888 2011-06-15 21:28:09 <gmaxwell> Joric: we told you earlier that it's not possible to send funds to "1".
2889 2011-06-15 21:28:15 <gmaxwell> Joric: the exchange still has your money.
2890 2011-06-15 21:28:39 knightrage has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2891 2011-06-15 21:28:51 <gmaxwell> Joric: if they say otherwise then they are either idiots or crooks, please make sure to tell me if that happens so I'll know to avoid them!
2892 2011-06-15 21:29:08 <Joric> jgarzik, do you confirm that?
2893 2011-06-15 21:29:30 DukeOfURL has joined
2894 2011-06-15 21:29:37 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2895 2011-06-15 21:29:54 quellhorst has joined
2896 2011-06-15 21:30:23 <Joric> gmaxwell, http://tradehill.com - avoid, no address validation on send )
2897 2011-06-15 21:30:46 Netsniper has joined
2898 2011-06-15 21:31:07 <gmaxwell> :)
2899 2011-06-15 21:31:10 <theymos> Why did you try to send to "1", anyway?
2900 2011-06-15 21:31:12 <forrestv> Joric, 1 isn't a valid address, there's really no way to send to it ...
2901 2011-06-15 21:31:20 <Joric> the gui is very confusing
2902 2011-06-15 21:32:18 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2903 2011-06-15 21:32:21 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2904 2011-06-15 21:32:31 ericmock has quit (Quit: ericmock)
2905 2011-06-15 21:32:37 <ius> Going by assumptions I bet tradehill deducted your balance and did not check whether the transaction completed succesfully. Fail.
2906 2011-06-15 21:34:05 someone0 has joined
2907 2011-06-15 21:34:25 someone0 is now known as joepie91
2908 2011-06-15 21:34:39 <gmaxwell> The tradehill in and out forms look like something the IRS would send you to fill out.
2909 2011-06-15 21:34:51 <gmaxwell> You put X in box A and Y in box B.
2910 2011-06-15 21:35:20 <Joric> there are boxes marked A-G on withdrawal thought it's for money, found out they are addresses
2911 2011-06-15 21:35:35 yellowhat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2912 2011-06-15 21:35:56 <phantomcircuit> is there anybody here who uses google login on britcoin?
2913 2011-06-15 21:36:04 <theymos> It is pretty bad to not even do length checking.
2914 2011-06-15 21:36:11 yellowhat has joined
2915 2011-06-15 21:36:25 ajf is now known as ajf|offline
2916 2011-06-15 21:36:27 <ius> Or a checksum for that matter, heh
2917 2011-06-15 21:36:33 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2918 2011-06-15 21:36:51 <Joric> i'm telling you, it's intentional )
2919 2011-06-15 21:37:49 <roconnor> sipa: I think I might have solved my heap problems.
2920 2011-06-15 21:38:06 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2921 2011-06-15 21:38:22 <roconnor> sipa: ByteStrings are pinned and my heap was getting fragmented.  Now that I've switched to UArrays the GC is free to move things around.
2922 2011-06-15 21:38:34 bjdg has joined
2923 2011-06-15 21:38:34 <roconnor> sipa: so the lesson is: don't use ByteStrings for long lived data, I think.
2924 2011-06-15 21:39:21 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2925 2011-06-15 21:39:25 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
2926 2011-06-15 21:40:07 quellhorst has joined
2927 2011-06-15 21:40:09 karnac_ has joined
2928 2011-06-15 21:40:37 Netsniper has quit (Quit: Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. -Emma Goldman)
2929 2011-06-15 21:40:49 <roconnor> sipa: though I'll probably switch from UArray to this new fangled vector package
2930 2011-06-15 21:41:20 <forrestv> theymos, the testnet chain on your blockexplorer is really far behind ... like one hour :/
2931 2011-06-15 21:41:33 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2932 2011-06-15 21:41:41 theymos has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2933 2011-06-15 21:41:48 amiller has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2934 2011-06-15 21:41:51 theymos has joined
2935 2011-06-15 21:43:27 amiller has joined
2936 2011-06-15 21:43:39 <yellowhat> i have a small question regarding bitcoin security: would it be ok to leave the rpc port open with username/password? is it reasonably secure?
2937 2011-06-15 21:43:57 evelyn66 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2938 2011-06-15 21:44:03 <yellowhat> with open i mean listening on 0.0.0.0 on a pulbic ip
2939 2011-06-15 21:44:14 <theymos> Only if you have a really excelent password and only connect over SSL.
2940 2011-06-15 21:44:33 _ape has joined
2941 2011-06-15 21:45:00 <yellowhat> why would non-ssl be bad? i don't care if anyone looks at the traffic, it ends up in blockexplorer anyways
2942 2011-06-15 21:45:09 jgarzik has quit (Quit: time to get some real work done :))
2943 2011-06-15 21:45:11 <theymos> forrestv: It just updated. Testnet is only updating every 6 minutes now (to reduce load on mainnet BBE), so that's probably what caused the delay.
2944 2011-06-15 21:45:15 <yellowhat> or is the password in plaintext?
2945 2011-06-15 21:45:21 <theymos> Yes, it's plaintext.
2946 2011-06-15 21:45:29 <yellowhat> omg thanks for the warning
2947 2011-06-15 21:45:55 <forrestv> theymos, ah ... no block for nearly two hours, wow.
2948 2011-06-15 21:45:57 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2949 2011-06-15 21:46:10 quellhorst has joined
2950 2011-06-15 21:47:38 <ius> yellowhat: Well, just firewall it?
2951 2011-06-15 21:47:54 Beremat has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2952 2011-06-15 21:48:08 <yellowhat> well i am building an app running on google app engine that communicates to a bitcoind backend
2953 2011-06-15 21:48:16 <yellowhat> so i will have to go the SSL route
2954 2011-06-15 21:48:35 <yellowhat> i cannot simply do VPN from GAE to my backend
2955 2011-06-15 21:48:38 Swu has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2956 2011-06-15 21:48:49 <citiz3n> anyone know what's going on with the network hashrate?
2957 2011-06-15 21:48:58 <citiz3n> is it confirmed that a trojan has come out?
2958 2011-06-15 21:49:00 <citiz3n> or what....
2959 2011-06-15 21:49:38 coblee has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2960 2011-06-15 21:49:58 AStove has quit ()
2961 2011-06-15 21:51:18 ericmock has joined
2962 2011-06-15 21:52:00 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2963 2011-06-15 21:52:30 <topi`> has anybody seen gavin after his CIA visit?
2964 2011-06-15 21:52:33 derpadurr has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2965 2011-06-15 21:52:40 <topi`> this is getting really worrying
2966 2011-06-15 21:52:51 <theymos> He was just on a live show.
2967 2011-06-15 21:53:15 dubious has joined
2968 2011-06-15 21:54:29 <iera> i have a question about the fees: MIN_TX_FEE prevents spam transactions with small amounts, but why couldnt i ddos the network with larger transactions to my own addresses?
2969 2011-06-15 21:54:44 <forrestv> iera, sssh don't tell anyone!
2970 2011-06-15 21:55:03 <vegard> oh, I asked this yesterday! :D
2971 2011-06-15 21:55:16 <forrestv> iera, :p it applies to recently received funds too...
2972 2011-06-15 21:55:25 <iera> perhaps someone could point that out in the code
2973 2011-06-15 21:55:33 dvide has quit ()
2974 2011-06-15 21:55:42 <theymos> Only a certain number of free transactions will be accepted per <time period>.
2975 2011-06-15 21:55:48 eao has joined
2976 2011-06-15 21:55:49 <iera> forrestv: but the recieve amount would also be a bigger one?
2977 2011-06-15 21:55:53 <iera> ah ok
2978 2011-06-15 21:55:54 <vegard> 1. you can't resend coins that were sent recently, and 2. there's a fee for big transactions so you wouldn't be able to spam for very long before having to pay for it
2979 2011-06-15 21:56:25 <iera> ok thanks
2980 2011-06-15 21:56:30 pierce has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2981 2011-06-15 21:56:35 <iera> 1 would be sufficient
2982 2011-06-15 21:58:05 <paxos1> hmm.. my bitcoind (linux 64bit) seems to get stuck occasionally while downloading blocks from peers and gives me the json result ("errors" : "WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct!  You may need to upgrade, or other nodes may need to upgrade.")
2983 2011-06-15 21:58:08 <paxos1> any ideas?
2984 2011-06-15 21:58:10 <Theo`> iera: search for 'sum(valuein * age) / txsize' in main.cpp
2985 2011-06-15 21:58:19 rgm3 has joined
2986 2011-06-15 21:58:24 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
2987 2011-06-15 21:58:30 <iera> Theo`: thanks!
2988 2011-06-15 21:58:40 <rgm3> Do any of you guys know forum user ufasoft?
2989 2011-06-15 21:58:49 <forrestv> paxos1, maybe you should upgrade
2990 2011-06-15 21:58:52 <paxos1> version 32300
2991 2011-06-15 21:58:53 <Theo`> priority depends on BTC value and age of input transactions.. so always sending money back and forth will result in a rather low prio
2992 2011-06-15 21:59:13 <theymos> paxos1: Possibilities: your computer's time is off, your block database files are corrupted, or your connection is bad.
2993 2011-06-15 21:59:16 minimoose3 has quit (Quit: minimoose3)
2994 2011-06-15 21:59:27 <rgm3> His miner requires libcurl > 7.12, but the ./configure script only checks for >7.10, but since I'm a forum n00b, I can't post to the right thread with the details.
2995 2011-06-15 21:59:46 tomat has joined
2996 2011-06-15 21:59:47 <iera> hm, but could i still disturb the network if i resend the same coins over and over with more nodes?
2997 2011-06-15 21:59:56 <paxos1> theymos: ntpd all good, block database is fresh for this process
2998 2011-06-15 22:00:07 <paxos1> theymos: not sure about the connection
2999 2011-06-15 22:00:18 osmosis has joined
3000 2011-06-15 22:00:27 <paxos1> theymos: what steps should I take to proceed?
3001 2011-06-15 22:00:28 Lachesis has joined
3002 2011-06-15 22:00:50 traviscj has joined
3003 2011-06-15 22:01:31 <theymos> The error indicates that your Bitcoin has seen an invalid block chain that is longer than the longest known valid block chain. This hasn't actually happened, so something is wrong with your client. How many blocks and connections do you have?
3004 2011-06-15 22:01:31 evelyn66 has joined
3005 2011-06-15 22:01:45 LightRider is now known as LightRider|afk
3006 2011-06-15 22:02:00 <paxos1> theymos: 95598 blocks, 30 connections
3007 2011-06-15 22:02:16 <theymos> Is the block count increasing?
3008 2011-06-15 22:02:21 <paxos1> no
3009 2011-06-15 22:02:33 <paxos1> once I get this error, it stops increasing
3010 2011-06-15 22:02:43 <paxos1> I thought it was bad shutdowns
3011 2011-06-15 22:02:50 <paxos1> fixed that issue
3012 2011-06-15 22:02:57 <paxos1> cleared my datadir
3013 2011-06-15 22:02:59 <paxos1> restarted
3014 2011-06-15 22:03:09 <paxos1> starting bringing in blocks.. got caught again
3015 2011-06-15 22:03:19 zyb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3016 2011-06-15 22:03:21 slush has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3017 2011-06-15 22:03:24 <theymos> It sounds very much like a corrupted database. Maybe antivirus software is messing with it?
3018 2011-06-15 22:03:37 <paxos1> *very* clean gentoo install
3019 2011-06-15 22:03:58 slush has joined
3020 2011-06-15 22:04:06 <paxos1> I can give it another shot
3021 2011-06-15 22:04:17 <theymos> Try deleting the database files again (blk***.dat and blkindex.dat) and connecting to some of the fallback nodes: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_nodes
3022 2011-06-15 22:04:33 <paxos1> ok
3023 2011-06-15 22:04:48 freeplay has joined
3024 2011-06-15 22:04:54 <paxos1> bbiab.. thanks for the help
3025 2011-06-15 22:05:08 Gary13579 has joined
3026 2011-06-15 22:05:12 paxos1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3027 2011-06-15 22:05:19 dvide has joined
3028 2011-06-15 22:05:25 derpadurr has joined
3029 2011-06-15 22:05:27 freeplay is now known as madeself
3030 2011-06-15 22:05:44 slush has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3031 2011-06-15 22:05:51 madeself is now known as freeplay
3032 2011-06-15 22:05:57 <Gary13579> the bitcoin RPC command "move" doesn't cause an actual transaction, right? so no txfees or waiting on confirmations?
3033 2011-06-15 22:06:03 <theymos> Right.
3034 2011-06-15 22:06:13 <Gary13579> awesome, thanks
3035 2011-06-15 22:06:17 <phantomcircuit> theymos, for future reference tell people to pastebin tail -n 100 ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
3036 2011-06-15 22:06:24 <phantomcircuit> that's usually enough to get a 100% answer
3037 2011-06-15 22:06:36 slush has joined
3038 2011-06-15 22:06:52 <phantomcircuit> Gary13579, furthur it doesn't actually move the address, just the amount is internally accounted for in the new account
3039 2011-06-15 22:06:53 <theymos> I doubt there's much info there. Probably just "IRC get join" spam.
3040 2011-06-15 22:07:08 <phantomcircuit> which makes some of the other rpc commands work unexpectedly
3041 2011-06-15 22:07:20 <phantomcircuit> like getaccount will not give you the new account
3042 2011-06-15 22:07:35 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3043 2011-06-15 22:08:04 <Gary13579> what do you mean, new account?
3044 2011-06-15 22:09:02 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3045 2011-06-15 22:09:04 <phantomcircuit> lets say you move all of the btc from one account to another
3046 2011-06-15 22:09:16 <phantomcircuit> the addresses associated with that account remain associated with it
3047 2011-06-15 22:09:35 <Gary13579> with the old account, yes?
3048 2011-06-15 22:09:35 <phantomcircuit> so you can get some weird stuff from the rpc if you're moving around accounts, in general i would suggest not using accounts
3049 2011-06-15 22:09:38 andzej has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3050 2011-06-15 22:10:06 <Gary13579> hm okay. how would you suggest I go about writing an escrow service?
3051 2011-06-15 22:10:20 <Gary13579> I was thinking a unique account in bitcoin per user, then just moving funds around as needed
3052 2011-06-15 22:10:26 <phantomcircuit> Gary13579, keep mapping of address <-> user
3053 2011-06-15 22:10:47 <phantomcircuit> keep all funds in default account on bitcoind and do the accounting yourself
3054 2011-06-15 22:11:12 <phantomcircuit> believe me using the baked in account support is a recipe for headaches later
3055 2011-06-15 22:12:27 zyb has joined
3056 2011-06-15 22:13:12 bk128 has joined
3057 2011-06-15 22:13:23 agricocb has joined
3058 2011-06-15 22:14:16 <Gary13579> that'll be such a pain :(, but thanks for the help
3059 2011-06-15 22:17:31 tandy80 has joined
3060 2011-06-15 22:17:39 tandy80 has left ()
3061 2011-06-15 22:18:55 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3062 2011-06-15 22:19:18 <Theo`> iera: even if you resend transactions, it still depends on priority, which depends on value*age. And age is reset when your coins have been moved once, so you will need VERY high values to succeed in spamming
3063 2011-06-15 22:20:27 abragin has quit ()
3064 2011-06-15 22:21:00 <Theo`> iera: so yes, it is possible, if you're rich. And in that case it may be not in your interest to disturb the net :)
3065 2011-06-15 22:21:08 pierce has joined
3066 2011-06-15 22:21:28 <iera> Theo`: im assuming an attacker with money like a government
3067 2011-06-15 22:23:07 pnicholson has joined
3068 2011-06-15 22:23:18 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3069 2011-06-15 22:23:21 <Theo`> expensive, but possible
3070 2011-06-15 22:23:28 darkstuff has joined
3071 2011-06-15 22:23:34 darkstuff has left ()
3072 2011-06-15 22:25:55 <iera> ah good example: i just got a transaction "foo matures in 114 more blocks"
3073 2011-06-15 22:26:20 <iera> that means the prio is low and i have to wait?
3074 2011-06-15 22:26:33 <ius> no
3075 2011-06-15 22:27:16 <ius> That's just the time it takes for a block to mature (100 under the hood, 120 in gui)
3076 2011-06-15 22:27:31 md2k7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3077 2011-06-15 22:28:53 <iera> reading that up
3078 2011-06-15 22:29:34 Netsniper has joined
3079 2011-06-15 22:29:56 <iera> so the network got segmented?
3080 2011-06-15 22:31:26 <Theo`> it's a mechanism to limit impact IF the network gets segmented
3081 2011-06-15 22:31:36 <Theo`> but unrelated to transaction priority
3082 2011-06-15 22:31:57 <iera> i see
3083 2011-06-15 22:32:04 <Gary13579> [17:05] <phantomcircuit> the addresses associated with that account remain associated with it
3084 2011-06-15 22:32:09 <Gary13579> I still don't see how this is an issue :\
3085 2011-06-15 22:32:10 <iera> but as i got this message the network was segemnted?
3086 2011-06-15 22:32:29 <Gary13579> from the wiki, it seems like accounts work exactly how my escrow service needs it to
3087 2011-06-15 22:33:34 <phantomcircuit> Gary13579, yes they work exactly how you need them to... right up until they dont
3088 2011-06-15 22:33:41 <phantomcircuit> and then you're stuck
3089 2011-06-15 22:33:51 <phantomcircuit> <-- having this issue right now
3090 2011-06-15 22:34:00 <Gary13579> [17:29] <phantomcircuit> Gary13579, yes they work exactly how you need them to... right up until they dont
3091 2011-06-15 22:34:03 <Theo`> iera: no, it's a regular message just for information that foo is a new block
3092 2011-06-15 22:34:05 <Gary13579> then clearly they don't work how they need them to
3093 2011-06-15 22:34:09 <Gary13579> and there is clearly a reason why they do not :P
3094 2011-06-15 22:34:35 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3095 2011-06-15 22:34:49 <Gary13579> if I move all the btc from account a to account b, I don't see how it's an issue that addresses that were associated with a still are
3096 2011-06-15 22:35:23 Jesque is now known as LameArse
3097 2011-06-15 22:35:47 <iera> Theo`: hm i dont get it but thanks, ill read a bit
3098 2011-06-15 22:38:07 loopyduck has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3099 2011-06-15 22:38:19 <Gary13579> am I misunderstanding something? :\
3100 2011-06-15 22:38:40 B0g4r7_ has joined
3101 2011-06-15 22:38:54 <phantomcircuit> Gary13579, because people are stupid and will continue to send funds to that, address, which is why they remain attached to the account, but there are all kinds of situations in which this is undespireable behavior, specifically if you restore the wallet from a backup
3102 2011-06-15 22:40:07 <Gary13579> the same could be said about accounting everything yourself: if you don't have a 100% up to date backup, you're going to be somewhat fucked
3103 2011-06-15 22:40:35 <phantomcircuit> Gary13579, which do you think is more likely to get corrupted
3104 2011-06-15 22:41:15 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3105 2011-06-15 22:41:29 wiedi has quit (Quit: all you need to do is STOP)
3106 2011-06-15 22:41:36 <phantomcircuit> the bdb file running in asyncronous mode which calls fsync roughly every second attached to a program which crashes roughly once every 10k rpc calls, or the sql server with 30 years of testing which crashes roughly never?
3107 2011-06-15 22:41:45 <phantomcircuit> your call
3108 2011-06-15 22:42:00 <Gary13579> fair enough
3109 2011-06-15 22:42:09 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3110 2011-06-15 22:42:09 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
3111 2011-06-15 22:42:42 dominiqu1 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3112 2011-06-15 22:42:44 midnightmagic has quit (Excess Flood)
3113 2011-06-15 22:43:00 kermit has joined
3114 2011-06-15 22:43:14 midnightmagic has joined
3115 2011-06-15 22:43:15 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3116 2011-06-15 22:43:44 jeremias has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3117 2011-06-15 22:43:56 <iera> Theo`: do i get this right: the message was because the bitcoins arent spend already i got from the generation transaction? but why do they mature in xx blocks?
3118 2011-06-15 22:44:20 jeremias has joined
3119 2011-06-15 22:45:02 <Theo`> iera: yep, thats the rule. You have to wait 120 blocks before generated coins can be spent
3120 2011-06-15 22:45:15 th3sl33p3r has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3121 2011-06-15 22:45:44 <iera> thanks :)
3122 2011-06-15 22:45:50 knightrage has joined
3123 2011-06-15 22:45:52 th3sl33p3r has joined
3124 2011-06-15 22:45:55 <knightrage> :>
3125 2011-06-15 22:46:02 WakiMiko_ has joined
3126 2011-06-15 22:48:39 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3127 2011-06-15 22:49:24 kam1l has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3128 2011-06-15 22:49:51 kam1l has joined
3129 2011-06-15 22:50:00 kam1l has quit (Client Quit)
3130 2011-06-15 22:50:04 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3131 2011-06-15 22:50:07 Beremat has joined
3132 2011-06-15 22:51:21 <Joric> i take back all i said about the tradehill.com
3133 2011-06-15 22:51:41 <midnightmagic> what did you say?
3134 2011-06-15 22:51:56 <Joric> they cancelled wrong transaction and wrote me an apologizing letter
3135 2011-06-15 22:52:11 loopyduck has joined
3136 2011-06-15 22:52:14 <Joric> with tradehill.com you may actually revert bitcoin transactions!
3137 2011-06-15 22:52:15 kish has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3138 2011-06-15 22:52:17 <Joric> word!
3139 2011-06-15 22:52:46 <loopyduck> are there any papers that go into depth about the cryptography behind bitcoin? I'm trying to implement a bitcoin miner.
3140 2011-06-15 22:52:49 takezo420 has joined
3141 2011-06-15 22:53:36 eternal1 has joined
3142 2011-06-15 22:54:19 quellhorst has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3143 2011-06-15 22:54:40 kish has joined
3144 2011-06-15 22:54:45 <phantomcircuit> loopyduck, http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
3145 2011-06-15 22:55:00 <phantomcircuit> loopyduck, although a miner is more or less just an engineering problem
3146 2011-06-15 22:56:27 <vegard> Joric: ah, the 1 transaction?
3147 2011-06-15 22:56:28 <loopyduck> phantomcircuit, thanks that's exactly what i was looking for. i just wanted to understand the big picture.
3148 2011-06-15 22:56:40 <Joric> vegard, yes
3149 2011-06-15 22:57:26 <Joric> they literally wrote "I have cancelled your withdraw request"
3150 2011-06-15 22:57:53 <Joric> looks like they care
3151 2011-06-15 22:59:15 clojure has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3152 2011-06-15 22:59:38 jrmithdobbs has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3153 2011-06-15 23:00:55 random_cat has joined
3154 2011-06-15 23:01:38 Incitatus has joined
3155 2011-06-15 23:01:44 Gary13579 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3156 2011-06-15 23:01:44 <random_cat> can anyone give me a rough idea of botcoind memory consumption or point me to a faq?  (had it trip OOM on me)
3157 2011-06-15 23:02:07 <phantomcircuit> random_cat, anywhere from ~100MB to over 1GB
3158 2011-06-15 23:02:16 <phantomcircuit> random_cat, depending on all kinds of things
3159 2011-06-15 23:02:43 <phantomcircuit> which reminds me i need to tell the other devs to change something
3160 2011-06-15 23:02:50 <phantomcircuit> but of course they're not here
3161 2011-06-15 23:03:34 <tcatm> what do you want to change?
3162 2011-06-15 23:04:29 <roconnor> damn you transaction c99c49 !!
3163 2011-06-15 23:05:36 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, the current patch for avoiding aggressive peers isn't enough
3164 2011-06-15 23:05:44 llama has joined
3165 2011-06-15 23:05:44 llama has quit (Changing host)
3166 2011-06-15 23:05:44 llama has joined
3167 2011-06-15 23:06:00 DukeOfURL has joined
3168 2011-06-15 23:06:04 <random_cat> small ram machine; can connections pose a large memory drain? (large buffers?)
3169 2011-06-15 23:06:08 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, since a lot of the bitcoind nodes are on memory constrained vps's without swap now
3170 2011-06-15 23:06:24 <phantomcircuit> random_cat, i would strongly suggest -maxconnections 10
3171 2011-06-15 23:06:39 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: I think there's a related thread on the dev mailing list
3172 2011-06-15 23:06:47 <random_cat> phantomcircuit: thanks, i had well in excess of 100
3173 2011-06-15 23:06:51 <phantomcircuit> there is a dev mailing list?
3174 2011-06-15 23:07:01 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, well either way the patch is because the network code sucks
3175 2011-06-15 23:08:11 Lachesis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3176 2011-06-15 23:09:23 syke has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3177 2011-06-15 23:09:47 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: yep, patches welcome :)
3178 2011-06-15 23:10:11 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=15527.0
3179 2011-06-15 23:10:26 syke has joined
3180 2011-06-15 23:12:18 DukeOfURL has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
3181 2011-06-15 23:12:30 Diablo-D3 has joined
3182 2011-06-15 23:13:10 coblee has joined
3183 2011-06-15 23:13:48 jrmithdobbs has joined
3184 2011-06-15 23:14:08 shawn-p has quit ()
3185 2011-06-15 23:16:19 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
3186 2011-06-15 23:16:54 glassresistor has joined
3187 2011-06-15 23:16:54 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
3188 2011-06-15 23:16:54 glassresistor has joined
3189 2011-06-15 23:18:05 eoss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3190 2011-06-15 23:19:39 <midnightmagic> sipa: Can you reset your graph maximums? the 10k/2k graphs are off the top of the chart again.
3191 2011-06-15 23:20:07 kratosk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3192 2011-06-15 23:20:21 JRWR has joined
3193 2011-06-15 23:20:22 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
3194 2011-06-15 23:20:22 JRWR has joined
3195 2011-06-15 23:20:22 Castor_ has joined
3196 2011-06-15 23:21:32 mosimo has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
3197 2011-06-15 23:22:19 xfactor has joined
3198 2011-06-15 23:23:25 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: thats— mildly concerning.
3199 2011-06-15 23:24:03 <devrandom> BBE has a bug where it overstates GH/s on difficulty change, and sipa's graphs use that, AFAIK
3200 2011-06-15 23:24:32 <devrandom> I don't think it's actually that high
3201 2011-06-15 23:24:32 <gmaxwell> sipa was around when that was mentioned earler
3202 2011-06-15 23:24:51 <gmaxwell> devrandom: the historical data doesn't support that.
3203 2011-06-15 23:25:23 <midnightmagic> it's brutal is what it is.. in another..  maybe two increments, I may be forced into a pool.
3204 2011-06-15 23:25:23 <gmaxwell> devrandom: otherwise you'd see it multiplied by the difficulty increase at every difficulty increase.
3205 2011-06-15 23:25:24 devon_hillard has joined
3206 2011-06-15 23:25:24 devon_hillard has quit (Changing host)
3207 2011-06-15 23:25:24 devon_hillard has joined
3208 2011-06-15 23:26:04 <midnightmagic> i feel dirty just saying that. :-(
3209 2011-06-15 23:26:06 <sipa> devrandom: i keep track of blocks myself
3210 2011-06-15 23:26:14 <devrandom> oh
3211 2011-06-15 23:26:29 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: mine namecoin.
3212 2011-06-15 23:26:34 <gmaxwell> ;)
3213 2011-06-15 23:26:36 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: I already am.
3214 2011-06-15 23:26:42 <sipa> and the algorithm should be correct in the case of difficulty swit hes
3215 2011-06-15 23:26:47 <sipa> switches
3216 2011-06-15 23:26:50 <midnightmagic> it's worth more at the moment per mining effort than bitcoins are.
3217 2011-06-15 23:27:16 <gmaxwell> Other thing to look at is to see if the numbers are high because someone is lying about the timestamps.
3218 2011-06-15 23:27:18 <sipa> ;;bc,nethash
3219 2011-06-15 23:27:19 <gribble> 8135.1827184194908
3220 2011-06-15 23:27:45 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3221 2011-06-15 23:27:45 <sipa> damn 8TH
3222 2011-06-15 23:27:48 <gmaxwell> (e.g. someone with a lot of hashpower)
3223 2011-06-15 23:28:03 <wardearia> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/06/bitcoin-the-decentralized-virtual-currencyrisky-currency-500000-bitcoin-heist-raises-questions.ars
3224 2011-06-15 23:28:20 normanrichards has joined
3225 2011-06-15 23:28:31 lolcat has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3226 2011-06-15 23:28:57 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3227 2011-06-15 23:28:57 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3228 2011-06-15 23:30:02 normanrichards has quit (Client Quit)
3229 2011-06-15 23:30:29 lolcat has joined
3230 2011-06-15 23:30:51 <gmaxwell> meh, the "these problems will get solved" quote was positioned perfectly to make it sound like there was some flaw in bitcoin that resulted in this.
3231 2011-06-15 23:31:12 <devrandom> sipa: blocks are indeed coming pretty fast
3232 2011-06-15 23:31:51 theorb has joined
3233 2011-06-15 23:32:11 <midnightmagic> unfazed..  brutal wording.
3234 2011-06-15 23:32:52 <Diablo-D3> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/15/she-looks-great-in-g.html
3235 2011-06-15 23:33:03 theorbtwo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3236 2011-06-15 23:33:10 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
3237 2011-06-15 23:33:36 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3238 2011-06-15 23:33:37 <cut> Diablo-D3: haha
3239 2011-06-15 23:33:59 Nesetalis has quit (Read error: No route to host)
3240 2011-06-15 23:34:04 derpadurr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3241 2011-06-15 23:34:07 yellowhat_ has joined
3242 2011-06-15 23:34:08 traviscj has joined
3243 2011-06-15 23:34:12 skeledrew1 has joined
3244 2011-06-15 23:34:18 Nesetalis has joined
3245 2011-06-15 23:34:35 IncitatusOnWater has joined
3246 2011-06-15 23:34:55 Joric_ has joined
3247 2011-06-15 23:34:58 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
3248 2011-06-15 23:34:58 Joric_ has joined
3249 2011-06-15 23:35:13 vigilyn2 has joined
3250 2011-06-15 23:35:21 neptunepink has joined
3251 2011-06-15 23:36:25 Pinion has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
3252 2011-06-15 23:36:45 Graet has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3253 2011-06-15 23:37:07 <UukGoblin> sipa, your graphs are off the scale again ;-[
3254 2011-06-15 23:37:15 Graet has joined
3255 2011-06-15 23:37:50 yellowhat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3256 2011-06-15 23:37:50 dubbz82 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3257 2011-06-15 23:37:51 vigilyn has joined
3258 2011-06-15 23:38:03 yellowhat_ is now known as yellowhat
3259 2011-06-15 23:38:12 fluf^arr has joined
3260 2011-06-15 23:38:37 vokoda` has joined
3261 2011-06-15 23:38:56 madveru has joined
3262 2011-06-15 23:39:04 IncitatusOnWater has quit (Client Quit)
3263 2011-06-15 23:39:29 <roconnor> question: transaction c99c49 has a Hashtype with code 0x00, but there is no hashtype with that code listed on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_CHECKSIG  so what is it supposed to do?
3264 2011-06-15 23:39:37 normanrichards has joined
3265 2011-06-15 23:40:54 vokoda` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3266 2011-06-15 23:41:09 d1234_ has joined
3267 2011-06-15 23:41:39 JStoker_ has joined
3268 2011-06-15 23:41:56 paul_nicholson has joined
3269 2011-06-15 23:42:42 Gekz__ has joined
3270 2011-06-15 23:42:56 karnac_ has quit (Quit: karnac_)
3271 2011-06-15 23:43:30 alanp_ has joined
3272 2011-06-15 23:43:56 takezo420 has left ()
3273 2011-06-15 23:44:00 heistpla1 has joined
3274 2011-06-15 23:44:17 mmoya has joined
3275 2011-06-15 23:44:31 karnac has joined
3276 2011-06-15 23:44:49 dermoth_ has joined
3277 2011-06-15 23:44:54 jaybny_ has joined
3278 2011-06-15 23:45:00 <Diablo-D3> man why is theymos never on irc anymore
3279 2011-06-15 23:45:09 <Wuked> you missed him
3280 2011-06-15 23:45:12 <Wuked> about 3 hrs ago
3281 2011-06-15 23:45:50 james has joined
3282 2011-06-15 23:46:08 JStoker has quit (Disconnected by services)
3283 2011-06-15 23:46:08 JStoker_ is now known as JStoker
3284 2011-06-15 23:46:17 james is now known as Guest41976
3285 2011-06-15 23:46:24 <Diablo-D3> I wish he'd fix the noob posting shit
3286 2011-06-15 23:46:29 <Diablo-D3> noobs should be able to reply to threads
3287 2011-06-15 23:46:44 <Wuked> yeah that was pretty annoying
3288 2011-06-15 23:46:49 <Wuked> waiting for 4 hours to be able to reply
3289 2011-06-15 23:46:56 <Wuked> on a forum where it's impossible to be online for 4 hours
3290 2011-06-15 23:47:03 <Wuked> because it's not up for more than 2hrs per day :P
3291 2011-06-15 23:47:10 <luke-jr> jgarzik: fyi Diablo-D3 sez pushpoold sucks
3292 2011-06-15 23:47:10 <Diablo-D3> lol
3293 2011-06-15 23:47:16 <Diablo-D3> yes. I said it.
3294 2011-06-15 23:47:18 Props` has joined
3295 2011-06-15 23:47:31 <Diablo-D3> and for the record, luke-jr is passing the blame onto pushpoold
3296 2011-06-15 23:47:39 <gmaxwell> FWIW— now might be a good time to officially announce the wallet encryption branch, perhaps get builds out.
3297 2011-06-15 23:47:40 nhodges has joined
3298 2011-06-15 23:47:42 <Diablo-D3> since hes the only one with a popular pushpoold pool, who knows
3299 2011-06-15 23:47:42 <gmaxwell> Blam for what?
3300 2011-06-15 23:47:50 <Wuked> luke-jr:  have you upgraded to pushpool 0.5 for your pool ?
3301 2011-06-15 23:47:53 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: basically, it shits itself under significant load
3302 2011-06-15 23:48:04 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: DiabloMiner has issues
3303 2011-06-15 23:48:07 dermoth has quit (home!~thomas@dsl-141-145.aei.ca|Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3304 2011-06-15 23:48:09 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: like, LP return causes my miner to disconnect because it took more than 15 seconds
3305 2011-06-15 23:48:40 <luke-jr> Wuked: no reason to
3306 2011-06-15 23:48:46 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: great, so what should your miner do if a couple of tcp packets are lost and make something else take 15 seconds?
3307 2011-06-15 23:49:02 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: it also disconnects on sendworks.
3308 2011-06-15 23:49:03 <Wuked> I'l lgive you one reason not to
3309 2011-06-15 23:49:06 <Wuked> it doesn't work ;)
3310 2011-06-15 23:49:07 <Diablo-D3> which I cant stop at all
3311 2011-06-15 23:49:53 <luke-jr> Wuked: what?
3312 2011-06-15 23:50:20 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: so, either luke-jr is incompetent or pushpoold is broken
3313 2011-06-15 23:50:24 <Optimo> you guys noticed the hasrate increase?
3314 2011-06-15 23:50:28 <Wuked> I can't anyone who says they have pushpool 0.5 working
3315 2011-06-15 23:50:31 <Optimo> hashrate
3316 2011-06-15 23:50:38 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: how am I incompetent for the behaviour of software I don't maintain?
3317 2011-06-15 23:50:54 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: by hosting it on a shitty VPS?
3318 2011-06-15 23:50:58 DrewSJ has quit (Quit: Not that there is anything wrong with that)
3319 2011-06-15 23:51:19 <luke-jr> Diablo-D3: in other words, no
3320 2011-06-15 23:51:41 <Diablo-D3> is the US pool hosted by rapidxen?
3321 2011-06-15 23:51:55 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: networks are lossy, your software needs to be agressive about staying connected regardless.
3322 2011-06-15 23:51:56 <luke-jr> no
3323 2011-06-15 23:52:12 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: its not a network issue.
3324 2011-06-15 23:52:32 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: and its not about "being aggressive"
3325 2011-06-15 23:52:58 <luke-jr> nevermind that other miners work
3326 2011-06-15 23:53:02 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: LP immediately tries to reconnect, but how is my miner supposed to know the server intentionally disconnected the LP?
3327 2011-06-15 23:53:04 jak_ has joined
3328 2011-06-15 23:53:16 <Diablo-D3> luke-jr: yes, and then they stall for minutes instead of just 15 seconds
3329 2011-06-15 23:53:57 <Diablo-D3> at least Im smart enough to have a timeout.
3330 2011-06-15 23:54:08 paul_nicholson is now known as pnicholson
3331 2011-06-15 23:54:08 jaybny_ is now known as jaybny
3332 2011-06-15 23:54:08 madveru is now known as manveru
3333 2011-06-15 23:54:09 fahadsadah_ has joined
3334 2011-06-15 23:54:12 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: because the socket is closed?
3335 2011-06-15 23:54:29 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: thats not an error condition.
3336 2011-06-15 23:54:31 <rgm3> Pretty funny that someone just said "networks are lossy" and we get a split.
3337 2011-06-15 23:54:34 neptunepink has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
3338 2011-06-15 23:54:41 Leo_II has joined
3339 2011-06-15 23:54:53 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: how does my miner tell the difference between the _network_ disconnecting or the _sever_ disconnecting?
3340 2011-06-15 23:54:55 <rgm3> I run diablo's client something like   "for j in `seq 1 10` do ; ./diablo.sh ; done
3341 2011-06-15 23:55:18 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: it can't. so it should treat it like the network disconnected it and try to reestablish.
3342 2011-06-15 23:55:18 purpleposeidon has joined
3343 2011-06-15 23:55:19 <Diablo-D3> rgm3: and that does nothing since my miner ALREADY spawns 3 execution threads per GPU
3344 2011-06-15 23:55:19 <rgm3> because it crashes infrequently on my mac, so when it does my loop just runs it again.
3345 2011-06-15 23:55:24 <Diablo-D3> oh
3346 2011-06-15 23:55:26 <Diablo-D3> yeah OSX sucks
3347 2011-06-15 23:55:28 <Diablo-D3> cant help you there
3348 2011-06-15 23:55:34 <gmaxwell> rgm3: while true; weee ;done
3349 2011-06-15 23:55:35 <rgm3> sokay, i helped myself
3350 2011-06-15 23:55:42 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: BUT if this is an LP, _it already tries reconnecting_
3351 2011-06-15 23:55:50 Joric_ is now known as Joric
3352 2011-06-15 23:55:53 maqr has joined
3353 2011-06-15 23:56:00 f33x has quit (Quit: f33x)
3354 2011-06-15 23:56:00 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: then whats the issue?
3355 2011-06-15 23:56:13 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: but since LP never returned, it starts producing stales until the client getworks next.
3356 2011-06-15 23:56:31 maqr has joined
3357 2011-06-15 23:56:31 RenaKunisaki has joined
3358 2011-06-15 23:56:48 f33x has joined
3359 2011-06-15 23:56:50 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: thats daft, if there isn't a lp socket up you obviously won't learn about new work.
3360 2011-06-15 23:57:13 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: not at all
3361 2011-06-15 23:57:17 <gmaxwell> Diablo-D3: so treat the socket going down as an LP event and trigger off a getwork.
3362 2011-06-15 23:57:30 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: it does trigger a getwork, when it runs out of nonce
3363 2011-06-15 23:57:53 <gmaxwell> Well then maybe it will be stale at that point.
3364 2011-06-15 23:58:02 <gmaxwell> Thats what happens if you keep working while the LP socket is down.
3365 2011-06-15 23:58:03 f33x has left ()
3366 2011-06-15 23:58:03 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3367 2011-06-15 23:58:04 <Diablo-D3> yes, its already stale
3368 2011-06-15 23:58:10 <Diablo-D3> and the client was never told it was stale
3369 2011-06-15 23:58:13 <Diablo-D3> because the pool fucked up
3370 2011-06-15 23:58:23 <gmaxwell> It couldn't tell you because the socket was closed.
3371 2011-06-15 23:58:31 <Diablo-D3> the server closed the socket.
3372 2011-06-15 23:58:35 <gmaxwell> Who cares?
3373 2011-06-15 23:58:39 <Diablo-D3> so I cant magically fix something here
3374 2011-06-15 23:58:45 <gmaxwell> You're mishandling a completely common network event.
3375 2011-06-15 23:58:54 <Diablo-D3> common as in every 10 minutes?
3376 2011-06-15 23:59:06 <gmaxwell> What happens when a network burp closes the socket? Stales. Fix that and you also gover the server screwing up.
3377 2011-06-15 23:59:09 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: oh, and btw, this ALSO effects normal getowrks and sendworks
3378 2011-06-15 23:59:22 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: a network burp doesnt happen every 10 minutes.
3379 2011-06-15 23:59:32 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: did you go through pushpool and make all the DB access async?
3380 2011-06-15 23:59:54 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: so, normal getworks sometimes fail to return, and normal sendworks fail to return