1 2011-06-17 00:00:00 <denisx> maybe I code a difficulty per user
   2 2011-06-17 00:00:14 <Wuked> if you add a column, then it's not going to be very compatible with current pools
   3 2011-06-17 00:00:17 <denisx> best would be autotuning
   4 2011-06-17 00:00:48 CoMBo has joined
   5 2011-06-17 00:00:54 <denisx> my poolcode is not compatible with anything anymore
   6 2011-06-17 00:01:05 <Wuked> is btcguild your pool ?
   7 2011-06-17 00:01:09 <denisx> no
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  10 2011-06-17 00:01:50 <Wuked> so what happens
  11 2011-06-17 00:01:58 <Wuked> if I change this line
  12 2011-06-17 00:01:59 <Wuked> 	1.	# rewrite returned 'target' to difficulty-1?
  13 2011-06-17 00:01:59 <Wuked> 	2.	        "rpc.target.rewrite" : true
  14 2011-06-17 00:02:06 <Wuked> in my server.json for pushpool
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  16 2011-06-17 00:02:31 <denisx> then the miner looking for the actual block target and not for a proof
  17 2011-06-17 00:03:03 <Wuked> which is bad?
  18 2011-06-17 00:03:22 <denisx> its like solomining
  19 2011-06-17 00:03:42 <Wuked> ah ok
  20 2011-06-17 00:03:47 <Wuked> well would it not be better
  21 2011-06-17 00:03:53 <Wuked> to increase the difficulty for everyone
  22 2011-06-17 00:03:56 <Wuked> to say 2 or 3
  23 2011-06-17 00:04:15 <Wuked> and reduce the load by 50% or mroe
  24 2011-06-17 00:04:23 <denisx> Wuked: my small atom needs 2h for the actual difficulty ;)
  25 2011-06-17 00:04:24 theorbtwo has joined
  26 2011-06-17 00:04:35 <Wuked> 2hr for difficulty 1 ?
  27 2011-06-17 00:05:16 <lfm> Wuked: if load is a problem, then yes
  28 2011-06-17 00:07:06 <luke-jr> jgarzik: fwiw, pushpoold is somehow ignoring most SYNs on one of my servers
  29 2011-06-17 00:07:15 <luke-jr> jgarzik: not just slow at handling them-- ignoring them completely
  30 2011-06-17 00:07:21 <luke-jr> nfc how that's even possible, but oh well
  31 2011-06-17 00:07:49 <Wuked> is it possible to change the difficulty above 1 in the server.json
  32 2011-06-17 00:07:55 <Wuked> or does it need a recompile ?
  33 2011-06-17 00:08:19 <luke-jr> Wuked: you'd need to modify the code
  34 2011-06-17 00:08:37 <luke-jr> if you do, please make it configurable and make a merge req
  35 2011-06-17 00:08:38 <luke-jr> :P
  36 2011-06-17 00:08:43 <luke-jr> configurable per-user would be ideal
  37 2011-06-17 00:08:47 <Wuked> have you changed it on your pool luke-jr?
  38 2011-06-17 00:08:53 <Wuked> yeah that would be good
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  41 2011-06-17 00:09:13 <Wuked> I don't have a problem on my pool, but it's not pushing anything near yours
  42 2011-06-17 00:09:17 <luke-jr> no
  43 2011-06-17 00:09:27 <luke-jr> I don't have a reasonable way to :p
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  45 2011-06-17 00:09:40 <Wuked> I mean, a mysql injection isn't a big query
  46 2011-06-17 00:09:49 <Wuked> but when you get up to hundred per second
  47 2011-06-17 00:09:53 <Wuked> i can imagine it's not good
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  49 2011-06-17 00:10:13 <luke-jr> insertion*
  50 2011-06-17 00:10:24 <Wuked> heh sorry tired
  51 2011-06-17 00:10:30 <Wuked> injection wouldn't be so good ;)
  52 2011-06-17 00:10:42 <jgarzik> luke-jr: weird
  53 2011-06-17 00:11:47 <denisx> luke-jr: what is your pool?
  54 2011-06-17 00:11:52 <luke-jr> jgarzik: don't suppose you know how Linux socket code works? :P
  55 2011-06-17 00:11:55 <luke-jr> denisx: #Eligius
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  57 2011-06-17 00:12:48 <denisx> jgarzik: I don't think its nice to drop a block only because memcached is oom
  58 2011-06-17 00:13:00 <luke-jr> jgarzik: am I the only one using pushpoold under 300 GH load?
  59 2011-06-17 00:13:28 <denisx> luke-jr: my pushpool is running with 40mh/s ;)
  60 2011-06-17 00:13:41 syke has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  61 2011-06-17 00:14:17 <luke-jr> XD
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  70 2011-06-17 00:19:42 <proprietarysucks> Hi, suggestion and question
  71 2011-06-17 00:19:54 <proprietarysucks> suggestion - think about a small comment option for btc transactions
  72 2011-06-17 00:19:54 Neozonz has left ()
  73 2011-06-17 00:20:36 <proprietarysucks> question - I'd like to write a web page that does a bitcoin raffle or lotto, probably won't put it out to public, more of a private thing. is there a python api I can use for this kind of thing?
  74 2011-06-17 00:20:52 <proprietarysucks> something that can received btc, verify they were received, send out btc ?
  75 2011-06-17 00:22:00 <proprietarysucks> does the bitcoin exe have rpc api already running on it?
  76 2011-06-17 00:22:07 <proprietarysucks> or how does this all work?
  77 2011-06-17 00:22:29 <lfm> proprietarysucks: you could use the "lables" or the so called "account names" as a small comment section
  78 2011-06-17 00:23:15 <Wuked> luke-jr: are you using pushpoold under 300GH on one server?
  79 2011-06-17 00:23:23 <jgarzik> luke-jr: dunno.  very busy ATM, file an issue with details
  80 2011-06-17 00:23:28 <Wuked> is that server also running the mysql ?
  81 2011-06-17 00:23:32 <jgarzik> denisx: um, ok
  82 2011-06-17 00:23:41 <jgarzik> denisx: ^^
  83 2011-06-17 00:24:29 <proprietarysucks> lfm: what I mean is so that I could send you for example .01 btc with a comment of "thanks" or more realistically an order number for example
  84 2011-06-17 00:26:05 <lfm> proprietarysucks: well we dont want the "currency" system to get loaded down with features of an order entry system. it like writing notes on your paper money, its actually illegal in most countries
  85 2011-06-17 00:26:07 ZOP has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  86 2011-06-17 00:26:11 <proprietarysucks> would make having a shop a lot easier to quickly know that the btc for an order has come in. I mean I guess you could make them give you their sending btc address
  87 2011-06-17 00:26:31 ZOP has joined
  88 2011-06-17 00:26:43 <proprietarysucks> is that how you would deal with it? by making users provide the address they are sending from?
  89 2011-06-17 00:26:51 <jrmithdobbs> isn't storing credit card data beyond what is necessary to complete the transaction, especially without explicit consent, a PCI violation?
  90 2011-06-17 00:27:02 <lfm> if you want an order entry system, you should have a separate order entry system. it can quite easily tie into bitcoin with the existing features
  91 2011-06-17 00:27:04 <jrmithdobbs> and only for the time required to process said txn
  92 2011-06-17 00:27:30 <proprietarysucks> how would you associate a payment with an order is my question
  93 2011-06-17 00:27:44 <jrmithdobbs> proprietarysucks: unique address per order
  94 2011-06-17 00:27:47 <jrmithdobbs> that simple
  95 2011-06-17 00:27:53 <proprietarysucks> I see. interesting
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  98 2011-06-17 00:28:21 <proprietarysucks> guess that makes sense, mtgox does that too I noticed
  99 2011-06-17 00:28:27 <jrmithdobbs> yup
 100 2011-06-17 00:28:28 <lfm> proprietarysucks: note that a proper order entry system will give out a new address for every order thus when that address receives the payment you know what order it is for
 101 2011-06-17 00:29:08 <proprietarysucks> in case anyone is looking around for a smallish very useful project, I thought of something that would be quite useful I think
 102 2011-06-17 00:29:21 <proprietarysucks> it occured to me while trying to sell something on bitcoin.org
 103 2011-06-17 00:29:28 ChuckSchumer has joined
 104 2011-06-17 00:29:51 <proprietarysucks> I ended up just not selling it because I got sick of having to go in and change the btc every time I checked on it, as it's unstable value at the moment
 105 2011-06-17 00:30:09 <proprietarysucks> I think a site that provided two services would be interesting and useful to say the least
 106 2011-06-17 00:30:50 <proprietarysucks> 1. dynamic image which displays the current BTC amount, based on another currency. for example, the current amount of BTC which is $20
 107 2011-06-17 00:30:51 <lfm> proprietarysucks: ya the unstable value of bitcoins has been noted as a problem for merchants in here many times
 108 2011-06-17 00:31:29 <proprietarysucks> 2. something like a 30-minute retension link, where if someone clicks the buy link, it is reserved for them for that price, for 30 minutes
 109 2011-06-17 00:31:39 <lfm> proprietarysucks: that would make sense and a footnote that prices are only good for 2 hours or 1 day or something
 110 2011-06-17 00:31:44 <proprietarysucks> so if you have 14 in stock, 14 people can reserve them by clicking them for example
 111 2011-06-17 00:31:59 LightRider has joined
 112 2011-06-17 00:32:07 <proprietarysucks> this double system would I think seriously combat the issues of constant flux vs static postings
 113 2011-06-17 00:32:48 <proprietarysucks> so my apple tv post would always have the accurate cost, and when someone went to buy it, it would be for the price they saw at the time, and my system would have notified me of the incoming price
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 118 2011-06-17 00:35:05 <proprietarysucks> so sorry to be a bother about it, but I'd like to start on a btc-related project, possibly even that one.. where should I start?
 119 2011-06-17 00:35:14 <proprietarysucks> familiar with python, php, perl, bash, more
 120 2011-06-17 00:35:29 forests has joined
 121 2011-06-17 00:35:49 <lfm> proprietarysucks: huh? you just said what you wanted someone else to work on? why not work on that yourself?
 122 2011-06-17 00:36:32 <proprietarysucks> because I have another more simple project I may work on in the meantime, to familiarize myself with the existing environment
 123 2011-06-17 00:36:59 <proprietarysucks> I feel that project is a bit urgent, as _using_ btc is quite complicated compared to where it will be in the future, I feel.
 124 2011-06-17 00:37:25 <proprietarysucks> and I'm not up to the task of delivering it, as I clearly have never done any scripting or programming based on bitcoin
 125 2011-06-17 00:38:03 <lfm> excuses!
 126 2011-06-17 00:38:08 <proprietarysucks> =[
 127 2011-06-17 00:38:22 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 128 2011-06-17 00:40:00 <proprietarysucks> manual? doc? howto? getting started? dev site? what's up? any python api or info about how to interact with bitcoin client programatically?
 129 2011-06-17 00:40:12 <vrs> proprietarysucks: wiki
 130 2011-06-17 00:40:38 <vrs> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_%28JSON-RPC%29
 131 2011-06-17 00:40:42 <lfm> if nothing else you can just run bitcoind commands and read the output
 132 2011-06-17 00:41:25 amiller has joined
 133 2011-06-17 00:41:25 <proprietarysucks> interesting thanks
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 136 2011-06-17 00:41:58 <vrs> btw, is there any library out there that offers an event when a transaction comes in?
 137 2011-06-17 00:42:39 <lfm> vrs not sure, you might be able to do that with the bitcoinj stuff
 138 2011-06-17 00:43:31 <vrs> eww java
 139 2011-06-17 00:43:54 <vrs> but ok, if it works and offers this
 140 2011-06-17 00:43:57 <lfm> fine, do without
 141 2011-06-17 00:47:23 <forests> is there a reason for the target that cpuminer reports being different than from blockexplorer? http://pastebin.com/EyFRPKs9
 142 2011-06-17 00:48:18 <gmaxwell> forests: you're mining for a pool.
 143 2011-06-17 00:48:20 <lfm> forests: maybe if you are in a pool
 144 2011-06-17 00:48:39 Lexa has joined
 145 2011-06-17 00:50:19 <forests> I've never connected to a pool
 146 2011-06-17 00:51:34 <forests> unless it connects by default to a pool that is
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 156 2011-06-17 00:55:25 <gmaxwell> forests: so you pointed it to a local copy of bitcoin?
 157 2011-06-17 00:55:34 <gmaxwell> forests: how many blocks does that copy of bitcoin report?
 158 2011-06-17 00:55:45 <forests> yep, 131342
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 160 2011-06-17 00:56:49 <gmaxwell> odd.
 161 2011-06-17 00:57:47 <forests> I've got a breakpoint in it's hash vs target check function. looks like the normal reversed copy before the byte swap
 162 2011-06-17 00:57:51 <forests> its*
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 164 2011-06-17 00:59:10 <gmaxwell> forests: what caused you to look into this?
 165 2011-06-17 00:59:51 <forests> writing a miner and want to see how the check function works
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 169 2011-06-17 01:02:20 * AlonzoTG is trying to compile bitcoin, I worked through all the compile errors and now I'm getting: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.5.2/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lboost-1_46/boost_filesystem
 170 2011-06-17 01:02:36 aristidesfl has joined
 171 2011-06-17 01:03:18 <forests> looks like you don't have the boost library install, maybe try yum install boost
 172 2011-06-17 01:03:20 clojure has joined
 173 2011-06-17 01:03:50 <jrmithdobbs> AlonzoTG: the build build*.txt files in the doc/ directory tell you everything you need.
 174 2011-06-17 01:04:03 karnac has joined
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 176 2011-06-17 01:07:55 <upb> it compiles! it compiles! now what is a linker error ...
 177 2011-06-17 01:07:56 <upb> :P
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 187 2011-06-17 01:21:50 <luke-jr> Wuked: yes
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 189 2011-06-17 01:22:07 <luke-jr> jgarzik: you know very well GitHub won't let me file an issue unless I agree to their absurd terms
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 191 2011-06-17 01:22:34 <Wuked> have you thought about moving the MySQL server off to another machine ?
 192 2011-06-17 01:22:55 <luke-jr> nope
 193 2011-06-17 01:23:03 <luke-jr> just adds more points of failure
 194 2011-06-17 01:23:27 <Wuked> build a mysql cluster  ? ;)
 195 2011-06-17 01:23:38 <Wuked> $$$!
 196 2011-06-17 01:23:53 <luke-jr> lame :P
 197 2011-06-17 01:24:18 <Wuked> heh
 198 2011-06-17 01:24:37 <Wuked> I think we are going to see a lot of pools starting up now
 199 2011-06-17 01:24:44 <Wuked> with this free pool software being made
 200 2011-06-17 01:24:48 <Wuked> the php stuff
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 210 2011-06-17 01:30:05 <bougyman> good evening.
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 213 2011-06-17 01:30:35 <bougyman> i'm having problems with pushpoold, trying to manipulate it to work tih nmc.  is that totally off-topic here?
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 219 2011-06-17 01:36:23 <forrestv> hi forests
 220 2011-06-17 01:36:36 <forests> hi
 221 2011-06-17 01:37:22 <forrestv> (there's an edit distance of 2 between our names!)
 222 2011-06-17 01:37:45 <upb> hrrrm
 223 2011-06-17 01:37:46 <upb> unresolved external symbol "void __cdecl MapPort(bool)" (?MapPort@@YAX_N@Z) referenced in function "void __cdecl StartNode(void *)" (?StartNode@@YAXPAX@Z)
 224 2011-06-17 01:38:08 <forests> edit distance?
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 226 2011-06-17 01:38:33 <enki> forests: levenshtein distance
 227 2011-06-17 01:38:36 <upb> how come that function is in #ifdef USE_UPNP but the call to it is not
 228 2011-06-17 01:38:38 <upb> wth
 229 2011-06-17 01:38:52 <enki> forests: it's on wikipedia ;)
 230 2011-06-17 01:39:38 <forests> ah, thanks enki
 231 2011-06-17 01:40:28 <forests> yes... yes there is. we should be friends
 232 2011-06-17 01:41:03 <upb> also something is seriously wrong with the way headers are used, changing one rebuilds everything
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 244 2011-06-17 01:50:12 <gmaxwell> http://walletinspector.info/  <  ugh
 245 2011-06-17 01:52:08 glitch-mod has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 246 2011-06-17 01:53:24 Elwes has joined
 247 2011-06-17 01:53:27 <gmaxwell> "Your wallet's (BTCW6677c551d1b961f139086a55ac2846df) integrity is intact! Your wallet has no unrecognized transactions!"  < after uploading 100k of /dev/urandom
 248 2011-06-17 01:53:27 alex5771_ has joined
 249 2011-06-17 01:53:45 <gmaxwell> sadly they have a file size limit set so it's not trivial to run them out of space.
 250 2011-06-17 01:53:54 <ius> Awh that'd be fun
 251 2011-06-17 01:53:57 <forrestv> sipa, remember how i asked about a rpc command that gets the data for any transaction, given its hash? (similar to getblock) what should it be named? (gettransaction is used)
 252 2011-06-17 01:54:02 <upb> hahahahha
 253 2011-06-17 01:54:13 <gmaxwell> forrestv: just extend gettransaction?
 254 2011-06-17 01:54:44 <forrestv> gmaxwell, don't want to break compatibility with apps that rely on using it to check for transactions to them ...
 255 2011-06-17 01:54:52 <forrestv> also, it's just really different
 256 2011-06-17 01:54:55 <upb> i got 'not a vaid wallet'
 257 2011-06-17 01:55:07 <upb> valid*
 258 2011-06-17 01:55:14 <forrestv> gettransaction is focused on the effects on the wallet
 259 2011-06-17 01:55:23 <forrestv> maybe gettransaction2? :/
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 264 2011-06-17 01:56:48 <ius> gmaxwell: Hosted on linode - perhaps abuse@ might stop them for an hour? ;)
 265 2011-06-17 01:57:00 <gmaxwell> forrestv: searchtransactions ?
 266 2011-06-17 01:57:29 <bougyman> seems like i'm in the wrong place.  does anyone happen to know of a pushpoold dev irc hangout, before I go?
 267 2011-06-17 01:57:42 <ius> bougyman: That'd be here
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 275 2011-06-17 02:02:44 <gmaxwell> I especially like the fact that the ID it gives you is the md5 sum of the uploaded file.
 276 2011-06-17 02:03:02 <gmaxwell> which means that they're probably using that to name their stolen files.
 277 2011-06-17 02:03:14 <ius> gmaxwell: Also http://baker3d.com/
 278 2011-06-17 02:03:18 <ius> http://viewdns.info/reverseip/?host=walletinspector.info
 279 2011-06-17 02:03:38 <gmaxwell> ius: I'm going to guess that it's a hacked account.
 280 2011-06-17 02:04:45 seanp2k has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 281 2011-06-17 02:04:53 <ius> Could be. Or someone very stupid ;)
 282 2011-06-17 02:05:16 <ius> Oh it's wordpress. Well, fair enough
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 286 2011-06-17 02:06:48 nefario has joined
 287 2011-06-17 02:06:58 <gmaxwell> ius: I reported it in the linode irc channel.
 288 2011-06-17 02:07:07 <ius> :)
 289 2011-06-17 02:07:35 <gmaxwell> I'm also attempting to exhaust its storage. ... streaming data it 3MBytes/s .. gonna take a bit if they have a lot. :-/
 290 2011-06-17 02:07:39 <ius> Let's see if they live up to their $20+ plans then
 291 2011-06-17 02:08:51 a_meteorite has joined
 292 2011-06-17 02:13:29 MetaV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 293 2011-06-17 02:14:36 sabalaba has joined
 294 2011-06-17 02:16:43 sacarlson has joined
 295 2011-06-17 02:17:13 <gmaxwell> I think I broke it.
 296 2011-06-17 02:17:26 <gmaxwell> Now when I upload a file it doesn't give an ID (md5sum) anymore.
 297 2011-06-17 02:17:29 <ius> Did you? You cheeky..
 298 2011-06-17 02:17:31 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 299 2011-06-17 02:17:40 [7] has joined
 300 2011-06-17 02:18:06 <gmaxwell> so hopefully that means its out of space and the write is failing.
 301 2011-06-17 02:18:09 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 302 2011-06-17 02:18:11 hdon- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 303 2011-06-17 02:18:17 <ius> Nah it works
 304 2011-06-17 02:18:23 <gmaxwell> really?
 305 2011-06-17 02:18:33 <ius> It does for me
 306 2011-06-17 02:19:14 <gmaxwell> It gave you an md5sum and everything?
 307 2011-06-17 02:19:18 <ius> Yup
 308 2011-06-17 02:19:20 <ius> And still does
 309 2011-06-17 02:19:28 <gmaxwell> :-/ it doesn't for me.
 310 2011-06-17 02:24:04 amstan has joined
 311 2011-06-17 02:24:24 <gmaxwell> ius: I'm being filtered by my IP...
 312 2011-06-17 02:24:37 <gmaxwell> the same script works from other hosts...
 313 2011-06-17 02:24:55 <gmaxwell> while true; do dd if=/dev/urandom of=wallet.dat bs=999K count=1 ; curl -F bitcoins=@wallet.dat http://walletinspector.info/ ; done
 314 2011-06-17 02:24:58 <ius> So Mallory is watching ;)
 315 2011-06-17 02:25:00 Lambdanaut has joined
 316 2011-06-17 02:25:04 <ius> Oh fun
 317 2011-06-17 02:25:19 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 318 2011-06-17 02:25:20 <gmaxwell> ah, they blocked another one.
 319 2011-06-17 02:25:30 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ?
 320 2011-06-17 02:25:51 <jrmithdobbs> did i miss fun
 321 2011-06-17 02:25:57 <ius> gmaxwell: Yup, doesn't take long
 322 2011-06-17 02:26:15 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: http://walletinspector.info/
 323 2011-06-17 02:26:17 <ius> Just a few reqs
 324 2011-06-17 02:26:34 <jrmithdobbs> wtf is that
 325 2011-06-17 02:26:46 <iz> lol and it's even called walletinspector
 326 2011-06-17 02:26:48 <legion0501> quick google.. for the baker 3d one. http://www.linkedin.com/in/baker3d
 327 2011-06-17 02:26:51 <AlonzoTG> om
 328 2011-06-17 02:26:54 <gmaxwell> ius: I'm pretty sure they're active now though, because I uploaded about 600 MB before it started rejected me the first time.
 329 2011-06-17 02:27:01 <AlonzoTG> Can someone help me clear out my linking errors?
 330 2011-06-17 02:27:16 <ius> Lucky enough not to end up in iptables then ;)
 331 2011-06-17 02:27:39 <amstan> gmaxwell: running it now
 332 2011-06-17 02:27:50 <AlonzoTG> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.5.2/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lboost_system
 333 2011-06-17 02:27:53 hereforfun has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 334 2011-06-17 02:28:42 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: is that really enough to trigger their upload script?
 335 2011-06-17 02:28:47 <gmaxwell> Therre is a phone number on the whois.
 336 2011-06-17 02:28:50 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: yum.
 337 2011-06-17 02:28:52 <gmaxwell> er yup.
 338 2011-06-17 02:28:55 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: because it's outputting the main page to me
 339 2011-06-17 02:29:04 <jrmithdobbs> not that i would ever try and dos someone
 340 2011-06-17 02:29:08 <gmaxwell> it does but do you see it giving you the md5sum of the file you uploaded it?
 341 2011-06-17 02:29:24 <jrmithdobbs> ya
 342 2011-06-17 02:29:31 <jrmithdobbs> and it's going way too fast to actually be checking transactions
 343 2011-06-17 02:29:37 <jrmithdobbs> or even pretending to
 344 2011-06-17 02:29:41 falafell has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 345 2011-06-17 02:29:45 stuhood1 has joined
 346 2011-06-17 02:29:45 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 347 2011-06-17 02:29:49 <gmaxwell> yep. well, it tells you that your file is okay even if its /dev/urandom.
 348 2011-06-17 02:30:00 sytse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 349 2011-06-17 02:30:04 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 350 2011-06-17 02:30:11 <jrmithdobbs> also i can't do this for vary long cause 30Mbit outbound is gonna piss off my old boss
 351 2011-06-17 02:30:14 <jrmithdobbs> lol
 352 2011-06-17 02:30:15 <doublec> gmaxwell: do you have a pointer to a patch for improving bitcoind's json-rpc concurrency?
 353 2011-06-17 02:30:37 <legion0501> why would someone make a site that uploads your wallet? other thatn the most obvious reason. to steal it.
 354 2011-06-17 02:30:45 <doublec> gmaxwell: (actually I want a namecoind patch but I'll convert)
 355 2011-06-17 02:31:05 <upb> AlonzoTG: you need to install the boost libs
 356 2011-06-17 02:31:25 <Herodes> legion0501: perhaps for backup purposes?
 357 2011-06-17 02:31:39 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: it'll stop giving you md5sums after a few requests. :(
 358 2011-06-17 02:31:53 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: didn't for me
 359 2011-06-17 02:31:59 <Herodes> say you encrypt a wallet and upload it to a secure service, and it could only be unlocked with the private key, that you store only locally, would that make sense?
 360 2011-06-17 02:32:04 <gmaxwell> oh.. keep going then...
 361 2011-06-17 02:32:16 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: gonna parallelize it first
 362 2011-06-17 02:32:20 <forrestv> legion0501, perhaps to check the authenticity and integrity of your wallet?
 363 2011-06-17 02:32:22 <Herodes> or perhaps store the private key and the wallet different places off site?
 364 2011-06-17 02:32:39 <AlonzoTG> yeah, my boost libs are installed, I just can't link against them, can't find the command.
 365 2011-06-17 02:32:43 <Herodes> i am no expert, just tossing out some ideas.
 366 2011-06-17 02:32:47 <gmaxwell> forrestv: "yep, transfered all your coins. You wallet was good"
 367 2011-06-17 02:32:55 <Herodes> hehe
 368 2011-06-17 02:32:56 <forrestv> :P
 369 2011-06-17 02:32:58 <gmaxwell> the dns registration has a phone number ...
 370 2011-06-17 02:33:01 <gmaxwell> Billing Phone:+1.7149220210
 371 2011-06-17 02:33:24 <ius> Fake, probably
 372 2011-06-17 02:33:37 <gmaxwell> well duh.
 373 2011-06-17 02:33:41 <forrestv> i'd say just work on technical solutions ... more like this are going to spring up, so there's not much point in chasing after individual ones, unless it's for fun
 374 2011-06-17 02:33:50 <ius> So the forum thread was started on the 15th
 375 2011-06-17 02:33:54 <gmaxwell> forrestv: we already have the technical solution.
 376 2011-06-17 02:33:56 <ius> 24h and /still/ up?
 377 2011-06-17 02:34:12 <upb> AlonzoTG: change the -L then
 378 2011-06-17 02:34:16 <forrestv> i know, wallet encryption ... but what happens when the 'verification service' says they need your password to validate it?
 379 2011-06-17 02:34:20 <legion0501> if it is encrypted, yeah. but nonencrypted and its checking the "integrity" of it?
 380 2011-06-17 02:34:20 <upb> or ./configure or however its built on linux
 381 2011-06-17 02:34:22 <jrmithdobbs> while true; do for i in $(seq 1 20); do mkdir "$i"; (dd if=/dev/urandom of="$i"/wallet.dat bs=999K count=1; curl -F bitcoins=@"$i"/wallet.dat http://walletinspector.info/ ) & done; wait; done
 382 2011-06-17 02:34:28 <jrmithdobbs> for max fun
 383 2011-06-17 02:34:43 computerwiz_222 has joined
 384 2011-06-17 02:34:48 <ius> forrestv: Yeah, your wallet is so secure, we really need your passphrase to be able to verify it ;)
 385 2011-06-17 02:35:06 <jrmithdobbs> damn, that tripped their blacklisting real quick
 386 2011-06-17 02:35:07 <jrmithdobbs> lol
 387 2011-06-17 02:35:23 <ius> Yeah I wasn't blacklisted that quickly with smaller filesizes
 388 2011-06-17 02:35:24 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: it was coming up blank for a minute.
 389 2011-06-17 02:35:43 <jrmithdobbs> also add -p to the mkdir to make it not bitch
 390 2011-06-17 02:36:10 <computerwiz_222> ius: are you talking about the while true one-liner?
 391 2011-06-17 02:36:57 * amstan sent the troll walletinspector oneliner to computerwiz_222
 392 2011-06-17 02:37:26 <jrmithdobbs> amstan: make sure and send them this one cause it'll do 20 at once for max lulz
 393 2011-06-17 02:37:29 <jrmithdobbs> while true; do for i in $(seq 1 20); do mkdir "$i"; (dd if=/dev/urandom of="$i"/wallet.dat bs=999K count=1; curl -F bitcoins=@"$i"/wallet.dat http://walletinspector.info/ ) & done; wait; done
 394 2011-06-17 02:37:31 <computerwiz_222> i think we should improve it and make the privatekey appear as "AreYouSerious"
 395 2011-06-17 02:37:39 <computerwiz_222> oh very nice
 396 2011-06-17 02:37:42 <upb> haha
 397 2011-06-17 02:38:12 <computerwiz_222> shouldn't be too bad.. but you need an if rather than /dev/urandom
 398 2011-06-17 02:38:25 <jrmithdobbs> if you really want I'll fix it to appear like 20 different real users randomly choosing safari/firefox/chrome user agents
 399 2011-06-17 02:38:42 <computerwiz_222> hahaha very nice
 400 2011-06-17 02:38:52 <legion0501> is that a script put in an sh file?
 401 2011-06-17 02:38:53 <gmaxwell> you need to change content though because I assume the reason he's md5ing it is to rename the files based on their md5.
 402 2011-06-17 02:38:54 <computerwiz_222> the only thing they won't like is that your IP is consistent
 403 2011-06-17 02:39:03 <jrmithdobbs> legion0501: just paste it at a prompt
 404 2011-06-17 02:39:05 <computerwiz_222> legion0501: it's a one-liner
 405 2011-06-17 02:39:08 <legion0501> gotcha
 406 2011-06-17 02:39:11 <computerwiz_222> i like it, very nice
 407 2011-06-17 02:39:12 <jrmithdobbs> legion0501: but sure that'd work too
 408 2011-06-17 02:39:20 <jrmithdobbs> anyways, going to bed, enjoy
 409 2011-06-17 02:39:26 stuhood1 has left ()
 410 2011-06-17 02:39:53 <upb> hmm php
 411 2011-06-17 02:41:33 <iz> put a sleep 120 in there
 412 2011-06-17 02:41:40 <jrmithdobbs> why bother
 413 2011-06-17 02:41:47 <jrmithdobbs> the dd from urandom effectively sleeps it
 414 2011-06-17 02:41:49 <iz> so it doesn't trigger the blacklisting
 415 2011-06-17 02:41:59 <iz> ah, yeah
 416 2011-06-17 02:42:06 <jrmithdobbs> not quite that long though
 417 2011-06-17 02:42:22 <jrmithdobbs> i nor my employer endorse the use of the above one liner
 418 2011-06-17 02:42:24 <jrmithdobbs> use at your own risk
 419 2011-06-17 02:42:39 <ius> Still it's trivial to filter the data, and it can't be filled up because the site is being watched
 420 2011-06-17 02:42:54 <computerwiz_222> ius: yeah, there is probably a guy watching
 421 2011-06-17 02:43:04 <computerwiz_222> and when he sees 10 1mb packets come from me
 422 2011-06-17 02:43:07 <computerwiz_222> he just stops watching me
 423 2011-06-17 02:43:09 <jrmithdobbs> ius: send it to @LulzSec and let the lulzcannon try.
 424 2011-06-17 02:43:23 <jrmithdobbs> bet they could fill it up, both disk and pipe in about 10 min
 425 2011-06-17 02:43:29 <computerwiz_222> lol
 426 2011-06-17 02:43:36 <computerwiz_222> it could be a crappy home server for all we know
 427 2011-06-17 02:43:47 <jrmithdobbs> no def not
 428 2011-06-17 02:43:47 <computerwiz_222> like.. hosted on a weak connection'
 429 2011-06-17 02:43:53 <gmaxwell> it's on linode.
 430 2011-06-17 02:43:54 <computerwiz_222> they used imgur too
 431 2011-06-17 02:43:56 <computerwiz_222> oh ic
 432 2011-06-17 02:44:12 <jrmithdobbs> a friend of mine was testing from an oc128
 433 2011-06-17 02:44:16 <computerwiz_222> damn
 434 2011-06-17 02:44:28 <jrmithdobbs> or so he says
 435 2011-06-17 02:44:42 <computerwiz_222> so it's going to take a bit to kill this site then
 436 2011-06-17 02:44:55 <computerwiz_222> it even sounds fishy lol
 437 2011-06-17 02:44:57 <computerwiz_222> "Wallet Inspector"
 438 2011-06-17 02:45:06 <computerwiz_222> if someone told me that in real life, i'd be like gtfo haha
 439 2011-06-17 02:45:47 <ius> Phone number of the actual VPS owner (I suppose) is in his whois
 440 2011-06-17 02:45:49 <upb> too bad its not 1999, could pwn that crap with fake file upload :P
 441 2011-06-17 02:46:03 <ius> See whois baker3d.com -> if any of you americans feel like calling ;)
 442 2011-06-17 02:46:26 <iz> haha yeah
 443 2011-06-17 02:47:11 hereforfun has joined
 444 2011-06-17 02:47:20 <ius> Probably a much more reasonable idea than DoSing his VPS. Off now, getting rational..
 445 2011-06-17 02:48:31 X-Scale has joined
 446 2011-06-17 02:48:43 <gmaxwell> computerwiz_222: I have expected it to pop up a "what.. are you an idiot??" box when I hit upload.
 447 2011-06-17 02:48:48 <gmaxwell> er half
 448 2011-06-17 02:49:36 <computerwiz_222> haha
 449 2011-06-17 02:50:10 shpxnvz has quit (Quit: shpxnvz)
 450 2011-06-17 02:50:18 devrandom has joined
 451 2011-06-17 02:51:46 mac-mini has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 452 2011-06-17 02:55:50 Elwes has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 453 2011-06-17 02:56:09 cryptocnt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 454 2011-06-17 02:56:42 cryptocnt has joined
 455 2011-06-17 02:58:12 <jrmithdobbs> http://home.jrbobdobbs.org/mith/email-notification.txt
 456 2011-06-17 02:58:25 <jrmithdobbs> that should sort itself pretty quick assuming their abuse dept doesn't suck.
 457 2011-06-17 02:59:04 mac-mini has joined
 458 2011-06-17 03:00:33 falafell has joined
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 460 2011-06-17 03:02:20 sytse has joined
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 462 2011-06-17 03:04:39 <Kireji> has anyone built a system that can determine what percentage of available bitcoins are in transactions for a given time history (like daily)
 463 2011-06-17 03:05:09 <Kireji> it is pretty easy to count total transaactions, but that double counts a lot
 464 2011-06-17 03:05:41 <Kireji> it's a harder analysis to determine how many "unique" coins are moving as a percent of available ones
 465 2011-06-17 03:06:02 <FellowTraveler> When I start up Bitcoin, it never asks me for the password.  How will an attacker be prevented from using my private key if it is not protected with a password?
 466 2011-06-17 03:06:28 <FellowTraveler> basically a virus only needs to steal the file, not the keystrokes. Or am I missing something?
 467 2011-06-17 03:06:42 <Kireji> FellowTraveler: correct
 468 2011-06-17 03:07:08 <Kireji> password-based encryption of the wallet are in development, according to 2 different sources I read
 469 2011-06-17 03:07:37 <Kireji> but at this time wallat.dat holds the private keys for all your transactions
 470 2011-06-17 03:07:52 <amstan> i still think it's futile if you're running on a compromised system
 471 2011-06-17 03:08:04 <AlonzoTG> fuck you, google.
 472 2011-06-17 03:08:07 <amstan> and by compromised i mean everything, even microsoft stealing your wallet file
 473 2011-06-17 03:08:27 spidermon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 474 2011-06-17 03:08:31 <AlonzoTG> I hate it when google can't answer my question but instead points me to billions of forum posts by people with exactly my question.
 475 2011-06-17 03:08:34 <Kireji> amstan: yeah, if someone can access your files, the current tech is not going to work well for you
 476 2011-06-17 03:08:35 Validus has joined
 477 2011-06-17 03:08:56 <Kireji> AlonzoTG: you are free to not use Google
 478 2011-06-17 03:09:12 <dD0T> amstan: That's like saying having locks is futile because you can easily break them
 479 2011-06-17 03:09:30 <lfm> FellowTraveler: if you got a virus it could capture your keystokes for a password anyway
 480 2011-06-17 03:09:45 <forrestv> what exactly is CRITICAL_BLOCK(cs_main) locking?
 481 2011-06-17 03:09:49 <dD0T> amstan: It's all a matter of attack surface and security layers
 482 2011-06-17 03:09:51 <amstan> dD0T: yes, but unlike locks, computers cannot be easily checked if they're compromised or not
 483 2011-06-17 03:09:58 <FellowTraveler> Don't you guys think it's time we moved to using crypto cards?
 484 2011-06-17 03:10:06 <amstan> FellowTraveler: +1 to that
 485 2011-06-17 03:10:20 <Kireji> FellowTraveler: can you elaborate?
 486 2011-06-17 03:10:23 <AlonzoTG> atg@tortoise ~/source/bitcoin/src $ ls /usr/lib/boost-1_46/ -l
 487 2011-06-17 03:10:23 <AlonzoTG> total 0
 488 2011-06-17 03:10:23 <AlonzoTG> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 32 Jun 13 15:35 libboost_date_time-mt.so
 489 2011-06-17 03:10:33 <AlonzoTG> So I have boost installed.
 490 2011-06-17 03:10:35 <AlonzoTG> BUT
 491 2011-06-17 03:10:43 <AlonzoTG> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.5.2/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lboost_system
 492 2011-06-17 03:10:45 <lfm> FellowTraveler: they dont support bitcoin anyway
 493 2011-06-17 03:10:55 <dD0T> amstan: You wouldn't know someone picked your lock from looking at it either...
 494 2011-06-17 03:11:16 <Kireji> just now saw an article on a trojan searching for wallet files http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/all-your-bitcoins-are-ours
 495 2011-06-17 03:11:18 <dD0T> amstan: Also nitpicking in analogies is...well...
 496 2011-06-17 03:11:25 <amstan> dD0T: you started it..
 497 2011-06-17 03:11:29 <gmaxwell> hah https://github.com/MrMEEE/bumblebee/commit/a047be
 498 2011-06-17 03:11:49 hereforfun has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 499 2011-06-17 03:11:52 <lfm> AlonzoTG: boost has an option for separate libs or combined lib. It seems you have the combined lib
 500 2011-06-17 03:12:04 <jrmithdobbs> called linode to have them bump up priority on that abuse report
 501 2011-06-17 03:12:15 <dD0T> gmaxwell: funny. that one has slowly spread through pretty much all channels I'm in over the course of the day :-)
 502 2011-06-17 03:12:16 <jrmithdobbs> they have to do their usual customer contact shuffle of course
 503 2011-06-17 03:12:22 <FellowTraveler> what do you guys suggest, USB stick ?
 504 2011-06-17 03:12:23 <jrmithdobbs> bit that'll be down shortly
 505 2011-06-17 03:12:29 <FellowTraveler> truecrypt ?
 506 2011-06-17 03:12:42 <dD0T> andrew12: not really. I tried to explain via an analogy. you did the nitpicking
 507 2011-06-17 03:12:46 <FellowTraveler> normally I suppose you'd want to protect the file from the network, but that doesn't make much sense for a p2p app
 508 2011-06-17 03:13:02 <jrmithdobbs> got imgur image pulled again too
 509 2011-06-17 03:13:03 <jrmithdobbs> lol
 510 2011-06-17 03:13:17 <AlonzoTG> The only thing I care about is how to make this link or the keywords I can use to find out how to make this link.
 511 2011-06-17 03:13:20 <AlonzoTG> I hate linkers.
 512 2011-06-17 03:13:26 <dD0T> FellowTraveler: have a completely offline wallet you transfer all funds too
 513 2011-06-17 03:13:30 <jrmithdobbs> *this* is how you take care of things like this, not dosing them, guys ;P
 514 2011-06-17 03:13:50 Elwes has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 515 2011-06-17 03:13:59 <AlonzoTG> They're the most under-documented, poorly understood, and missused piece of software that is more important, in many respects, than the kernel or the compiler.
 516 2011-06-17 03:14:37 <jrmithdobbs> AlonzoTG: follow instructions in build*.txt in doc/ ... problem solved
 517 2011-06-17 03:14:50 <AlonzoTG> =|
 518 2011-06-17 03:15:18 <AlonzoTG> When I did that I got compiler errors; so I spent an hour fixing the code, now the code works, but I can't link it because ld is gay.
 519 2011-06-17 03:15:34 <jrmithdobbs> ya you probably broke the code
 520 2011-06-17 03:15:37 * dD0T still wonders why wallets weren't encrypted from day one...it's not as if were hard compared to the rest of the impl...
 521 2011-06-17 03:15:45 <jrmithdobbs> and were just using wrong lib versions
 522 2011-06-17 03:15:46 <jrmithdobbs> but ok
 523 2011-06-17 03:15:54 Lenovo01 has joined
 524 2011-06-17 03:16:13 <AlonzoTG> 90% of the time, my machine has the latest versions available.
 525 2011-06-17 03:16:37 <lfm> dD0T: encryption is export controlled in some places still so it would restrict the spread of bitcoins
 526 2011-06-17 03:16:59 <dD0T> lfm: lol
 527 2011-06-17 03:16:59 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: because it's pretty pointless, if the machine's compromised even if it's encrypted it's a matter of waiting for the user to input the passphrase and log it
 528 2011-06-17 03:17:12 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: it's just a nice warm fuzzy feel good that stops NOTHING
 529 2011-06-17 03:17:16 Pinion has joined
 530 2011-06-17 03:17:43 <dD0T> lfm: You do relise that there's already public private crypto in btc?
 531 2011-06-17 03:17:47 <jrmithdobbs> the real solution is to keep large sums assigned to keys that have never touched a bitcoin wallet
 532 2011-06-17 03:18:04 <lfm> ddotonly signatures, they are not export controlled
 533 2011-06-17 03:18:37 <jrmithdobbs> which is hard to do currently until sipa's showwallet tree gets merged
 534 2011-06-17 03:18:56 Tim-7967 has joined
 535 2011-06-17 03:18:57 Tim-7967 has quit (Changing host)
 536 2011-06-17 03:18:57 Tim-7967 has joined
 537 2011-06-17 03:19:07 <jrmithdobbs> because you can gen the keys offline into encrypted media and send to them just fine
 538 2011-06-17 03:19:09 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: It's a whole lot harder to have a machine compromised until you can snoop the key. also it requires a lot more effort
 539 2011-06-17 03:19:49 <lfm> dd0t not a lot
 540 2011-06-17 03:19:53 <jrmithdobbs> but then actually moving them around again afterwards is hard since you have to either mangle a wallet.dat manually or rebase sipa's patches to import them (and fix the OBO that prevents you from importing certain keys that are valid saying they're invalid)
 541 2011-06-17 03:19:55 <Validus> depends where you are
 542 2011-06-17 03:20:25 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: um no it's not, the compromise is happening outside of bitcoin to begin with
 543 2011-06-17 03:20:40 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: compromise machine, start key logger, done
 544 2011-06-17 03:20:49 <Validus> side jack open wifi
 545 2011-06-17 03:20:49 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: wallet encryption does fuck all
 546 2011-06-17 03:20:58 <Validus> next to no work
 547 2011-06-17 03:20:59 <dD0T> ah well. i guess all other apps handling ppk material have the pwds for the lulz.
 548 2011-06-17 03:21:14 <lfm> dd0t yup
 549 2011-06-17 03:21:18 <Validus> oh you left windows sharing on by default....
 550 2011-06-17 03:21:20 <dD0T> thought so
 551 2011-06-17 03:21:29 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: makes people feel better
 552 2011-06-17 03:21:42 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: does nothing if the machine said passphrase protected keys are stored on are compromised
 553 2011-06-17 03:21:43 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: right....
 554 2011-06-17 03:21:45 <jrmithdobbs> as just described
 555 2011-06-17 03:21:58 <Validus> security is in the hand of the user, as well as what you implement
 556 2011-06-17 03:22:04 <dD0T> it does. until the key is entered the data is still safe
 557 2011-06-17 03:22:10 Twoheaded has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 558 2011-06-17 03:22:16 <Validus> use onscreen keyboard to type things. no keylogs there
 559 2011-06-17 03:22:20 <dD0T> that means backups are safe too btw.
 560 2011-06-17 03:22:28 <jrmithdobbs> that assumes the breach is caught before the passphrase (NOT KEY) is entered
 561 2011-06-17 03:22:34 <jrmithdobbs> and that is fairly unlikely in most scenarios
 562 2011-06-17 03:22:41 <dD0T> it's all a matter of attack surface
 563 2011-06-17 03:22:48 <jrmithdobbs> yes, it does mean backups are safer, i'll concede that
 564 2011-06-17 03:23:01 Lenovo01 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 565 2011-06-17 03:23:01 <lfm> Validus: depends how you capture keys. there are still keyboard events generated to be captured
 566 2011-06-17 03:23:03 <jrmithdobbs> but you shouldn't be backing up privkeys to unencrypted storage anyways
 567 2011-06-17 03:23:17 <jrmithdobbs> that's just common sense
 568 2011-06-17 03:23:19 <Validus> 90% of keyloggers dont record onscreen keyboard
 569 2011-06-17 03:23:28 <Validus> i like keepass personally
 570 2011-06-17 03:23:43 <Validus> but still comes down to user
 571 2011-06-17 03:23:48 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: shouldn couldn wouldn
 572 2011-06-17 03:23:58 <lfm> Validus: thats what they like you to beleive
 573 2011-06-17 03:24:01 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: users don't care :-)
 574 2011-06-17 03:24:12 <Validus> ive seen alot. thats why i said 90%, i did not say all
 575 2011-06-17 03:24:19 Akinava has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 576 2011-06-17 03:24:26 <jrmithdobbs> Validus: um, keepass looks worthless
 577 2011-06-17 03:24:34 <jrmithdobbs> jfyi
 578 2011-06-17 03:24:47 <Validus> its an encrypted database , held by a large key you set
 579 2011-06-17 03:24:59 <Validus> and that still has your passwords for sites with ******'s in them. but it can auto fill in forms and keep it secure
 580 2011-06-17 03:25:06 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
 581 2011-06-17 03:25:16 <jrmithdobbs> Validus: for the scenarios being described, at least
 582 2011-06-17 03:25:20 <Validus> that way you dont use the same password on every site, you can make extremely hard passwords on every site and not worry about forgetting them
 583 2011-06-17 03:25:33 AB3Ham has joined
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 585 2011-06-17 03:25:33 AB3Ham has joined
 586 2011-06-17 03:25:37 <lfm> anyway you can always use any old file encryptor program, it might be better than what could be put in bitcoin anyway
 587 2011-06-17 03:25:41 Herodes has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 588 2011-06-17 03:25:42 <dD0T> I like keepass
 589 2011-06-17 03:25:44 <jrmithdobbs> Validus: might as well just drop them in a plain text file on a luks encrypted loop image (ore aes encrypted dmg)
 590 2011-06-17 03:25:59 spidermon has joined
 591 2011-06-17 03:26:11 <dD0T> lfm: ? it's not as if _using_ crypto is rocket science :-)
 592 2011-06-17 03:26:13 <Validus> well setup a 30+ key for keepass and brute force is
 593 2011-06-17 03:26:14 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: ya but it's entry hotkey stuff makes the whole thing worthless for avoiding keylogger scenarios
 594 2011-06-17 03:26:23 <dD0T> lfm: the libs do all the heavy lifting
 595 2011-06-17 03:26:30 <Validus> you do understand what keyloggers do. they record keys
 596 2011-06-17 03:26:37 <Validus> if no key is hit, then what is it recording
 597 2011-06-17 03:26:41 <Validus> nothing.
 598 2011-06-17 03:26:56 <jrmithdobbs> Validus: you do understand that keyloggers don't just record physical keyboard events, right?
 599 2011-06-17 03:27:01 krazee has joined
 600 2011-06-17 03:27:06 <lfm> dD0T:  right so do it outside bitcoin, as you say it is easy
 601 2011-06-17 03:27:33 <Validus> well save yourself the trouble before you get hacked and send me your btc
 602 2011-06-17 03:27:34 <dD0T> lfm: ?
 603 2011-06-17 03:27:34 <Validus> :P
 604 2011-06-17 03:27:36 <jrmithdobbs> Validus: having them sniff unnamed pipes and similar is not uncommon
 605 2011-06-17 03:27:47 <Validus> i wanst saying it wasnt/or was
 606 2011-06-17 03:27:51 Twoheaded has joined
 607 2011-06-17 03:28:07 <Validus> thats easier, actually peoples retarded passes for things is the worst security measure in the world
 608 2011-06-17 03:28:20 <jrmithdobbs> the main problem
 609 2011-06-17 03:28:24 <lfm> Validus: dont laugh, there was a scam already where the guy said he would keep an safe encrypted backup of your wallet for you
 610 2011-06-17 03:28:31 <Validus> LOL
 611 2011-06-17 03:28:32 <jrmithdobbs> is that end user services still all rely on fucking passwords
 612 2011-06-17 03:28:35 <jrmithdobbs> fuck passwords
 613 2011-06-17 03:28:44 <Validus> id encrypt it. rar it, password it, encrypt ethe archive. rename it. then encrypt it again
 614 2011-06-17 03:28:50 <lfm> Validus: I said dont laugh! grin
 615 2011-06-17 03:28:51 krazee has quit (Client Quit)
 616 2011-06-17 03:28:55 wolfspraul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 617 2011-06-17 03:29:00 krazee has joined
 618 2011-06-17 03:29:07 <Validus> theres ways of protecting your data storing things online
 619 2011-06-17 03:29:13 <Validus> just have to use your noggin
 620 2011-06-17 03:29:14 <dD0T> Validus: ... then forget the pw and... oh wait :-)
 621 2011-06-17 03:29:20 <jrmithdobbs> seriously, all these sites that require passwords have already switched to ssl (the decent ones) transport for the passwords
 622 2011-06-17 03:29:21 <Validus> i do not forget passwords :P
 623 2011-06-17 03:29:33 alex5771_ has quit (Quit: alex5771_)
 624 2011-06-17 03:29:38 <Validus> if i cant remember in my mind, my fingers do lol
 625 2011-06-17 03:29:41 <jrmithdobbs> it would take like 10-20 lines more code to take ssl cert fingerprints from the user and use actual client cert auth
 626 2011-06-17 03:29:49 krazee has left ()
 627 2011-06-17 03:29:52 <lfm> va;lidwell the people who most need it do forget passwords
 628 2011-06-17 03:29:53 <dD0T> Validus: muscle memoryftw
 629 2011-06-17 03:29:56 wolfspraul has joined
 630 2011-06-17 03:30:09 <Validus> then they should be using keepass, at least theres a few other measures taken
 631 2011-06-17 03:30:09 <jrmithdobbs> and people like comodo (i don't really like them either, but the CA signing for this purpose doesn't matter) issue semi-validatable end user certs FOR FREE
 632 2011-06-17 03:30:14 <Validus> better than save password in firefox, or a text file
 633 2011-06-17 03:30:25 <jrmithdobbs> but nooo
 634 2011-06-17 03:30:25 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: users don't have certs (usually)
 635 2011-06-17 03:30:28 pierce has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 636 2011-06-17 03:30:34 <jrmithdobbs> client ssl cert auth is too hard
 637 2011-06-17 03:30:43 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: like I said, comodo and a few others issue them for free
 638 2011-06-17 03:30:43 <Validus> ah sh it. i forgot i got a 40 port router today
 639 2011-06-17 03:30:44 <Validus> brb
 640 2011-06-17 03:30:55 <Validus> cisco 5505 i believe
 641 2011-06-17 03:30:57 sabalaba has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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 643 2011-06-17 03:31:16 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: and fairly automated and easy to aquire ways
 644 2011-06-17 03:31:22 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: ppl. want to uswe their webmail from the ecaffee :-)
 645 2011-06-17 03:31:33 <jrmithdobbs> people should buy laptops
 646 2011-06-17 03:31:38 pierce has joined
 647 2011-06-17 03:31:51 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: Well. I do have client certs i use for certain sites
 648 2011-06-17 03:31:59 <jrmithdobbs> typing passwords on public terminals is the dumbest thing you can do
 649 2011-06-17 03:31:59 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
 650 2011-06-17 03:32:11 <dD0T> but I wouldn't trust a "normal" user to get on with them
 651 2011-06-17 03:32:31 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: welcome to the real world i guess
 652 2011-06-17 03:32:39 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: that's because you're used to window's shit key handlind
 653 2011-06-17 03:32:43 <jrmithdobbs> keychain makes it awesome.
 654 2011-06-17 03:32:49 <lfm> is really nothing to do with bitcoin
 655 2011-06-17 03:32:57 <jrmithdobbs> s/key/cert/;s/handlind/handling/
 656 2011-06-17 03:33:05 <dD0T> the world of password password, 12345 and layer 8
 657 2011-06-17 03:33:30 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: i'm aware, that doesn't mean the service providers aren't partially to blame for the continuation of this problem
 658 2011-06-17 03:33:48 <jrmithdobbs> at least then smart/informed users could *attempt* to use better authentication methods
 659 2011-06-17 03:33:50 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: no it doesn't :-) as soon as you have multiple machines and a mobile phone it's a pita
 660 2011-06-17 03:34:14 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: and
 661 2011-06-17 03:34:35 Nicolai_ has quit (Quit: Nicolai_)
 662 2011-06-17 03:34:52 <lfm> I agree mobil phones are a pita
 663 2011-06-17 03:35:02 <jrmithdobbs> dD0T: keychain syncing with mobileme and importing certs on android devices is a matter of dropping on sd card and clicking "add"
 664 2011-06-17 03:35:11 <jrmithdobbs> you guys' phones suck
 665 2011-06-17 03:35:19 <dD0T> jrmithdobbs: maybe :-)
 666 2011-06-17 03:35:37 <lfm> not all androids have a SD slot
 667 2011-06-17 03:35:41 <jrmithdobbs> (you have to input import passphrase after hitting add, and every time you use the cert you have to input key passphrase)
 668 2011-06-17 03:35:45 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: adb push
 669 2011-06-17 03:35:57 devrandom has quit (Quit: leaving)
 670 2011-06-17 03:35:57 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
 671 2011-06-17 03:36:05 <davro> phones suck and tinfoil hats rule !
 672 2011-06-17 03:36:08 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 673 2011-06-17 03:36:14 <lfm> cat walked over you keyboard?
 674 2011-06-17 03:36:16 devrandom has joined
 675 2011-06-17 03:36:32 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: ?
 676 2011-06-17 03:37:15 <lfm> "adb"
 677 2011-06-17 03:37:30 <lfm> ?
 678 2011-06-17 03:37:44 red_dawn_ has joined
 679 2011-06-17 03:38:02 <dD0T> lfm: bluetooth thingy afaik
 680 2011-06-17 03:38:07 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: $ adb --help
 681 2011-06-17 03:38:07 <jrmithdobbs> Android Debug Bridge version 1.0.26
 682 2011-06-17 03:38:47 <lfm> oh, sounds like a great tool for newbie users to need
 683 2011-06-17 03:39:22 <jrmithdobbs> not having a mountable-over-usb storage mechanismis fairly rare on android devices
 684 2011-06-17 03:39:38 <jrmithdobbs> especially so on any worth using
 685 2011-06-17 03:40:10 <jrmithdobbs> but for those corner cases there is still a solution is all i'm saying
 686 2011-06-17 03:40:36 <Validus> just got this today, http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1844/image001uw.jpg
 687 2011-06-17 03:40:37 <Validus> :D
 688 2011-06-17 03:41:20 <dD0T> lots of ports
 689 2011-06-17 03:41:56 <Validus> company is moving to chicago. it needs 1 fan replaced and thats pretty much it. in perfect condition
 690 2011-06-17 03:42:14 <dD0T> old beast though, isn't it?
 691 2011-06-17 03:42:37 <Validus> its probably so so. but cant beat free
 692 2011-06-17 03:43:21 <Validus> despite the fan. it was taken care of
 693 2011-06-17 03:43:38 darkmethod has joined
 694 2011-06-17 03:44:27 <upb> is it 10mbit?
 695 2011-06-17 03:44:56 <Validus> i honestly just carried it in. i was just called and said hey you want this
 696 2011-06-17 03:45:27 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 697 2011-06-17 03:45:34 <jrmithdobbs> it can run ios assuming you have the firmware files
 698 2011-06-17 03:45:37 <jrmithdobbs> so no
 699 2011-06-17 03:46:00 <jrmithdobbs> pretty awesome for free if you don't mind the jet engine/power part of the equation
 700 2011-06-17 03:46:22 <jrmithdobbs> and they don't really eat much power depending on what blades are in it
 701 2011-06-17 03:46:42 josephholsten has quit (Quit: josephholsten)
 702 2011-06-17 03:46:49 <jrmithdobbs> well, also depends on what sup module's in it
 703 2011-06-17 03:46:59 <jrmithdobbs> hope for your sake it's already running ios and not catos
 704 2011-06-17 03:47:01 <jrmithdobbs> fuck catos ;P
 705 2011-06-17 03:47:11 <Validus> my 5200 rpm 62 dba fan is running at 3100 atm
 706 2011-06-17 03:47:22 <Validus> i dont much care if its loud
 707 2011-06-17 03:47:30 <lfm> 10BaseT only according to the specs
 708 2011-06-17 03:47:41 <dD0T> urgs
 709 2011-06-17 03:47:47 <jrmithdobbs> ya i'd take one for free ... at the least you could strip the blades out and sell the chassis for ~100-200
 710 2011-06-17 03:47:54 <dD0T> 10? switch or hub?
 711 2011-06-17 03:47:55 <jrmithdobbs> and then part out the blades
 712 2011-06-17 03:47:56 <jrmithdobbs> heh
 713 2011-06-17 03:48:27 <Validus> Cisco Catalyst 5505 40port router. One of the fans on the top needs replacing, but its in almost perfect condition:
 714 2011-06-17 03:48:31 <Validus> thats what i got in email
 715 2011-06-17 03:48:49 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: depneds on the blades in it. and those can be replaced.
 716 2011-06-17 03:49:05 <Validus> came from a big office
 717 2011-06-17 03:50:51 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: those can do gigabit p sure
 718 2011-06-17 03:50:56 <jrmithdobbs> not 10gbit but gbit
 719 2011-06-17 03:51:10 <jrmithdobbs> blades in it are probably 10/100 on 10s tho
 720 2011-06-17 03:51:20 <lfm> I was just going by cisco 2500 on the front
 721 2011-06-17 03:51:31 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: wrong unit
 722 2011-06-17 03:51:33 <Validus> ill go through all the specs in a bit
 723 2011-06-17 03:51:40 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: 5500 is teh chassis on the bottom
 724 2011-06-17 03:51:40 <Validus> gotta get some other stuff done first
 725 2011-06-17 03:51:45 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: and the part that's interesting
 726 2011-06-17 03:52:02 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: but ya the 2500s are way old crap ;P
 727 2011-06-17 03:52:15 <Validus> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps679/products_data_sheet09186a0080092603.html
 728 2011-06-17 03:52:17 <Validus> that should be it
 729 2011-06-17 03:52:21 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: bottom chassis is a 5505
 730 2011-06-17 03:52:30 Tim-7967 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 731 2011-06-17 03:52:40 <Validus> cisco catalyst 5505
 732 2011-06-17 03:52:48 echelon has joined
 733 2011-06-17 03:52:57 <echelon> any bitcoin wiki admins on?
 734 2011-06-17 03:53:02 <Validus> and full. bastard is heavy hehe
 735 2011-06-17 03:53:10 <jrmithdobbs> Validus: great find for free. like I said, just hope for your sake it's already running ios and not catos ;P
 736 2011-06-17 03:53:27 <Validus> im not touching it till i replace the top fan that needs it
 737 2011-06-17 03:53:52 <jrmithdobbs> Validus: just pull all but the sup blade and one of the port blades out and there's no way it'll overheat
 738 2011-06-17 03:53:55 <jrmithdobbs> srsly
 739 2011-06-17 03:54:00 <Validus> watched my video card go from 40 to 82 in less than 10 mins
 740 2011-06-17 03:54:07 <Validus> lol
 741 2011-06-17 03:54:16 <jrmithdobbs> network gear is pretty hard to overheat
 742 2011-06-17 03:54:22 <Validus> why i hooked up the high rpm fan
 743 2011-06-17 03:54:25 <jrmithdobbs> especially without load
 744 2011-06-17 03:54:32 nefario has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 745 2011-06-17 03:54:35 <Validus> i dont put anything past me
 746 2011-06-17 03:54:55 <jrmithdobbs> meh i've seen 2650s run for years (literally) with both fans dead
 747 2011-06-17 03:54:56 <jrmithdobbs> lol
 748 2011-06-17 03:55:14 nefario has joined
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 750 2011-06-17 03:55:22 <Validus> im not saying i would, im just saying i rather be safe than sorry and not risk it
 751 2011-06-17 03:55:42 <jrmithdobbs> i'd at least fire it up to see what kind of blades those are
 752 2011-06-17 03:56:02 <jrmithdobbs> and get the version of the sup module to find out if it can (or already is) running ios
 753 2011-06-17 03:56:06 <Validus> in a bit. i gotta get some work done
 754 2011-06-17 03:56:50 <Validus> gotta find some cables to
 755 2011-06-17 03:57:18 <jrmithdobbs> just need your rollover cable and a null modem to find out everything interesting ;P
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 757 2011-06-17 04:04:36 <dD0T> Validus: thermal capacitance to the rescue !!!11
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 775 2011-06-17 04:27:45 <wjk0vax> anyone here knows if mtgox trading api works?
 776 2011-06-17 04:27:46 <AlonzoTG> I gave up on the custom makefiles and am now trying to get cmake working,
 777 2011-06-17 04:27:56 <AlonzoTG> there's a somewhat sloppy cmake example out there,
 778 2011-06-17 04:30:34 <wjk0vax> getFunds.php and such - anyone made it work at all?
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 795 2011-06-17 04:43:44 <wasabi2> Hello. Trying to write an experimental miner.
 796 2011-06-17 04:43:52 <amstan> jrmithdobbs: well.. my script is still uploading
 797 2011-06-17 04:44:02 <wasabi2> So... have my hash of the has.
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 803 2011-06-17 04:44:54 <wasabi2> The length of the target is 32 bytes?
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 814 2011-06-17 04:51:28 <forrestv> what does cs_main lock?
 815 2011-06-17 04:52:07 <jgarzik> lots of stuff
 816 2011-06-17 04:52:54 <wasabi2> anything special in the comparison of the sha256 hash to the target?
 817 2011-06-17 04:53:00 <wasabi2> Like any byte swapping have to happen?
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 823 2011-06-17 04:59:27 <jgarzik> wasabi2: read cpuminer and pyminer
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 825 2011-06-17 05:06:04 <forrestv> jgarzik, how do i determine whether i need to lock cs_main?
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 827 2011-06-17 05:10:03 <forests> wasabi2: you have to byteswap the whole target
 828 2011-06-17 05:10:16 <forests> if you get it via RPC
 829 2011-06-17 05:10:30 <forests> it will end up looking like this http://blockexplorer.com/q/hextarget
 830 2011-06-17 05:14:45 <wasabi2> Oh, every single byte?
 831 2011-06-17 05:14:49 <wasabi2> Somebody mentioned quads.
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 833 2011-06-17 05:15:35 <forests> check the cpuminer fulltest function in util.c
 834 2011-06-17 05:16:32 <forests> it does a full swap, then does quad swapping on the hash to compare with target
 835 2011-06-17 05:17:20 <wasabi2> okay... full swap of target, quad swap on hash.
 836 2011-06-17 05:18:02 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 837 2011-06-17 05:18:43 <forests> well it also full swaps the hash before doing the quad
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 841 2011-06-17 05:21:30 <wasabi2> Golly. That all seems like a lot of work.
 842 2011-06-17 05:21:42 <wasabi2> Wonder if I can ignore it and just do my comparison differently
 843 2011-06-17 05:22:08 <wasabi2> Somebody mentioned that the hash must have position 7 == 0 to be valid?
 844 2011-06-17 05:22:15 <wasabi2> As a quick way to skip a full compare.
 845 2011-06-17 05:23:43 <forests> not according to block explorer
 846 2011-06-17 05:23:47 ivan has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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 848 2011-06-17 05:24:11 <forests> nvm I was thinking of that position being in bytes
 849 2011-06-17 05:24:29 <forests> yeah that's a quick way for an unswapped hash
 850 2011-06-17 05:25:02 <AlonzoTG> =\
 851 2011-06-17 05:25:03 <wasabi2> eh. I don't know if it was bytes or not
 852 2011-06-17 05:25:11 <AlonzoTG> Google has revealed to me a number of things.
 853 2011-06-17 05:25:21 <AlonzoTG> 1. The bitcoin community is extrordinarily active (good!)
 854 2011-06-17 05:25:31 <AlonzoTG> 2. Many people are having trouble building bitcoin.
 855 2011-06-17 05:25:42 <forests> yeah I've seen that it's in quads
 856 2011-06-17 05:25:45 <AlonzoTG> 3. A number of people have published improved build systems for bitcoin,.
 857 2011-06-17 05:26:13 <forests> 32 bit integers that is, it would be the same as the last 4 bytes being equal to 0
 858 2011-06-17 05:26:19 <AlonzoTG> 4. The bitcoin project proper has been extremely slugish in adopting the badly needed and readily available improvements to the build system.
 859 2011-06-17 05:26:48 <jgarzik> rofl
 860 2011-06-17 05:27:06 <jgarzik> wallet encryption or improved build system - which one do you think has the priority?
 861 2011-06-17 05:27:17 <jgarzik> P2P connectivity or improved build system - which one do you think has the priority?
 862 2011-06-17 05:27:18 <proj-secfile> just curious, but have anyone known of anyways to protect a wallet ?
 863 2011-06-17 05:27:22 <jgarzik> uh huh :)
 864 2011-06-17 05:27:27 MBS has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 865 2011-06-17 05:27:42 <AlonzoTG> Build system, always build system otherwise nobody can develop the software, they're just stuck waiting for you to make the build system a priority.
 866 2011-06-17 05:28:02 IoWn3rU_ has joined
 867 2011-06-17 05:28:18 <proj-secfile> wallet really needs some form of encryption to protect it's data from being stolen
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 871 2011-06-17 05:28:27 <AlonzoTG> agreed.
 872 2011-06-17 05:28:32 <AlonzoTG> But then I can't even build the software.
 873 2011-06-17 05:28:33 mmoya has joined
 874 2011-06-17 05:28:37 <AlonzoTG> Which is a more serious problem.
 875 2011-06-17 05:28:41 r2k has joined
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 877 2011-06-17 05:29:10 <proj-secfile> we had a case of someone's wallet recently stolen and it needs to be reviewed
 878 2011-06-17 05:29:41 sabalaba has joined
 879 2011-06-17 05:30:02 <AlonzoTG> Good, fix the build system and I'll help with the wallet protection.
 880 2011-06-17 05:30:55 MBS has joined
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 882 2011-06-17 05:31:06 <AlonzoTG> fuck this shit, I have so much else to do, not the least of which is finding a new job. =(
 883 2011-06-17 05:31:24 <AlonzoTG> I just spent the ENTIRE evening trying to get the build system to work.
 884 2011-06-17 05:31:36 josephholsten has quit (Quit: josephholsten)
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 887 2011-06-17 05:33:00 <proj-secfile> which version is recommended for working on ? is it the v0.3.23rc1 that is recommended for dev ?
 888 2011-06-17 05:33:19 ivan has quit (Client Quit)
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 895 2011-06-17 05:40:23 <forrestv> anybody want to review 'getrawtransaction'? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/324
 896 2011-06-17 05:40:48 <jgarzik> plenty of other people manage to build bitcoin just fine
 897 2011-06-17 05:41:29 <jgarzik> it's really not that difficult if you know anything about unix and makefiles
 898 2011-06-17 05:42:38 <AlonzoTG> Byte me. The makefiles assume that you're using the 2008 version of all the relevant libraries.
 899 2011-06-17 05:43:01 B0g4r7_ has joined
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 901 2011-06-17 05:44:03 <Validus> if your using make and compiling, shouldn't you already know the dependancies?
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 904 2011-06-17 05:45:20 Props is now known as cwestbrook
 905 2011-06-17 05:45:36 <doublec> AlonzoTG: the build-unix.txt has all the dependancies
 906 2011-06-17 05:46:11 <Validus> README INSTALL, etc, usually all CAPS in a program
 907 2011-06-17 05:46:24 sabalaba has joined
 908 2011-06-17 05:46:34 <Validus> dont be pissed cuz you didnt read, much easier just to read or ask for help
 909 2011-06-17 05:46:39 gjs278 has joined
 910 2011-06-17 05:47:09 <Validus> besides you shouldnt be running linux distro's if you dont expect any problems. thats half the fun
 911 2011-06-17 05:49:24 Pinion has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
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 917 2011-06-17 05:59:12 <dD0T> Validus: I would find that funny if it weren't so true....
 918 2011-06-17 05:59:26 <Validus> i rather deal with linux problems than windows
 919 2011-06-17 05:59:38 red_dawn_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 920 2011-06-17 05:59:42 <Validus> but some dude gonna flame ppl cuz he cant read a txt file. nah get off crapbuntu and get a real distro
 921 2011-06-17 06:00:21 * dD0T prefers no problems
 922 2011-06-17 06:00:38 <Validus> no offense to ppl using it. but my god. new is ok. but not like that
 923 2011-06-17 06:00:39 <Validus> lol
 924 2011-06-17 06:00:42 red_dawn_ has joined
 925 2011-06-17 06:01:13 <Validus> usually it is no problems as long as you read, know what you need. and dont start tweaking things that are fun :D
 926 2011-06-17 06:01:41 <Validus> ofc gotta tweak things though heh
 927 2011-06-17 06:01:49 <dD0T> sounds familiar :-)
 928 2011-06-17 06:02:00 <Validus> ive locked up 9 times today
 929 2011-06-17 06:02:06 <Validus> did i stop. no. just changed a few things
 930 2011-06-17 06:02:07 <Validus> hehe
 931 2011-06-17 06:02:21 <forests> ubuntu is pretty though
 932 2011-06-17 06:02:28 <forests> the rest of the distros are damn ugly
 933 2011-06-17 06:02:30 <Validus> bleh
 934 2011-06-17 06:02:39 <Validus> i aint even dare touching unity
 935 2011-06-17 06:03:09 <Validus> ubuntu can be convenient from all the stuff in the forums
 936 2011-06-17 06:03:09 <dD0T> at least finally a gtk thingy with built in aero snap like fu
 937 2011-06-17 06:03:17 Elwes has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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 939 2011-06-17 06:03:30 <Validus> i.e. apply to your distro, but try to figure out what you need
 940 2011-06-17 06:04:00 <Validus> i dont agree with a distro that cant fix their bugs so they trash gnome and make their own gui instead. more worried about new version #'s than fixing what they need to. and now they are talking about trashing firefox and replacing it with chrome
 941 2011-06-17 06:04:28 <Validus> which just not that long ago had ANOTHER 0 day exploit come out for it. and last november or october took 1st place for the most exploits for any web browser
 942 2011-06-17 06:04:43 El-Loco has joined
 943 2011-06-17 06:05:13 <dD0T> Validus: statistics
 944 2011-06-17 06:05:33 <Validus> google chrome most exploits, was in october or november, so in pc terms thats a long time ago
 945 2011-06-17 06:05:54 <Validus> google: not google chrome
 946 2011-06-17 06:05:56 <forests> funny how firefox presented itself as fast and trimmed down, then it become all bloated
 947 2011-06-17 06:05:57 <Validus> didnt realize my play on words there
 948 2011-06-17 06:06:10 <Validus> i have no problem with firefox, if your system sucks, get a new one
 949 2011-06-17 06:06:11 <Validus> hehe
 950 2011-06-17 06:06:29 <Validus> my p4 2 gig of ram handled firefox 4 just fine
 951 2011-06-17 06:06:32 <dD0T> Validus: is firefox sandboxed yet?
 952 2011-06-17 06:06:32 IoWn3rU_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 953 2011-06-17 06:06:34 <Validus> with tons of tabs always open
 954 2011-06-17 06:06:50 <Validus> sandbox helps to an extent, then theres sandboxie, but that is not 100% foolproof
 955 2011-06-17 06:06:50 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
 956 2011-06-17 06:07:01 <Validus> just like ppl that think running virus's and things in a VM protects their pc when it does not
 957 2011-06-17 06:07:26 <dD0T> Validus: it sure is better then running it on the host :-)
 958 2011-06-17 06:07:37 <Validus> why would you run it anyways?
 959 2011-06-17 06:07:41 <Validus> thats what i always wondered
 960 2011-06-17 06:07:43 Phoebus has joined
 961 2011-06-17 06:07:48 <dD0T> Validus: also there's hardly any code out there built to escape a vm
 962 2011-06-17 06:07:49 <forests> I've got firefox open right now, using 470MB of ram. chrome open and using 56 MB of ram.
 963 2011-06-17 06:07:59 <Validus> just cuz there is hardly any doesnt mean it is not there
 964 2011-06-17 06:08:04 <Validus> well you are doing somethign wrong then forests
 965 2011-06-17 06:08:18 <Validus> firefox is using 82 meg of ram and i have 11 tabs open
 966 2011-06-17 06:08:21 <Validus> and a persona loaded
 967 2011-06-17 06:08:37 <Validus> RAM: Used: 2225/8176MB
 968 2011-06-17 06:08:44 <Validus> but that aint shit compared to everything else i have going
 969 2011-06-17 06:08:45 <Validus> lol
 970 2011-06-17 06:08:52 <JunK-Y> use chrome :)
 971 2011-06-17 06:08:55 <Validus> fuck no
 972 2011-06-17 06:09:08 <Validus> i installed that thing for a total of 5 minutes
 973 2011-06-17 06:09:10 <dD0T> ff4 is pretty decent again. I still use chrome
 974 2011-06-17 06:09:13 <Validus> then it went straigh toff
 975 2011-06-17 06:09:34 <Validus> i do not like chrome. and the way exploits keep getting popped for it, im not going to
 976 2011-06-17 06:09:34 <forests> idk how you got firefox to only use 82 mb of ram
 977 2011-06-17 06:09:39 <forests> but I'm impressed
 978 2011-06-17 06:09:45 <JunK-Y> hehehhe
 979 2011-06-17 06:09:45 <Validus> ive never seen firefox over 150 meg ever
 980 2011-06-17 06:09:57 <Validus> maybe once when i had over 20 tabs open and lots of java with other things
 981 2011-06-17 06:10:04 <Validus> you definately have something wrong
 982 2011-06-17 06:10:08 <dD0T> Validus: then you haven't really used it yet :-)
 983 2011-06-17 06:10:14 <Validus> thats the highest u sage of firefox ive ever seen
 984 2011-06-17 06:10:28 <Validus> ddot: i brought my dual core 3.06 ghz with 4 gig of ram to its knees over 8 times
 985 2011-06-17 06:10:30 <forests> well, my chrome install works fine
 986 2011-06-17 06:10:35 <Validus> i know how to use lots of things
 987 2011-06-17 06:10:47 <Validus> im hell on pc's and i know i am.. lol
 988 2011-06-17 06:10:53 <JunK-Y> forests: +1
 989 2011-06-17 06:11:03 <Validus> ya so does my firefox
 990 2011-06-17 06:11:14 <Validus> and im not going to be paranoid every 2nd wondering if another exploit popped out for it
 991 2011-06-17 06:11:21 dissipate has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 992 2011-06-17 06:11:50 <dD0T> Validus: wasn't the last one a flash exploit?
 993 2011-06-17 06:12:11 <Validus> the last one was after the flash update. was not even a month ago
 994 2011-06-17 06:12:14 <Validus> iirc
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 996 2011-06-17 06:12:50 <Validus> i aint arguing which is better
 997 2011-06-17 06:12:55 <Validus> but you wont catch that shit on my system
 998 2011-06-17 06:12:56 <Validus> hehe
 999 2011-06-17 06:13:40 <forests> but you allow flash?
1000 2011-06-17 06:13:43 <Validus> id rather use ie before that, and thats saying alot
1001 2011-06-17 06:13:52 syke has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1002 2011-06-17 06:13:59 <Validus> nope. not really
1003 2011-06-17 06:14:22 <Validus> im not looking for flash sites, click random links. go on tpb or none of that. i always have stuff to do
1004 2011-06-17 06:14:44 syke has joined
1005 2011-06-17 06:14:50 <forests> then why would you be worried about exploits in the first place
1006 2011-06-17 06:15:20 <Validus> cuz 1. the exploits were not flash i was talking about. 2. security conscience.
1007 2011-06-17 06:15:22 espinet has quit (Quit: espinet)
1008 2011-06-17 06:15:30 <Validus> thats like saying oh no one knows my ip so im protected
1009 2011-06-17 06:15:48 <Validus> put a ftp up on port 21, label the header filezilla. watch the ppl trying to root you begin
1010 2011-06-17 06:16:36 <forests> what I'm trying to say is that you're being security conscious by not using chrome, because you fear exploits, yet you don't disable flash
1011 2011-06-17 06:16:46 <Validus> no. i dont use chrome cuz its a pos
1012 2011-06-17 06:16:52 <Validus> and i dont like it. on top of the exploits for it
1013 2011-06-17 06:17:06 <dD0T> Validus: obscurity ftw. that's why I use non std ports :-)
1014 2011-06-17 06:17:07 <Validus> and i dont have flash enabled in my browser
1015 2011-06-17 06:17:46 <Validus> i was just making a comparison of ppl that think since no one knows their ip or they are not on anything that nothing can happen to them
1016 2011-06-17 06:17:52 <Validus> there are tons of ppl that think this and its sad
1017 2011-06-17 06:18:01 <forests> well I'm impressed by your security consciousness
1018 2011-06-17 06:18:07 <Validus> dont patronize me man
1019 2011-06-17 06:18:16 <forests> you must use randomly generated passwords
1020 2011-06-17 06:18:48 <dD0T> Validus: with ipv6 an proper randomization they might finally be somewhat right :-)
1021 2011-06-17 06:19:16 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1022 2011-06-17 06:19:23 <Validus> as long as a password contains upper lower # symbol and a good lenth and doesnt spell a word then your generally ok
1023 2011-06-17 06:20:00 <Validus> its so easy to data mine with everything now and ppl willingly give up so much info
1024 2011-06-17 06:20:17 <forests> true, especially facebook
1025 2011-06-17 06:20:19 <Validus> what good is your security question if you put the answer out publicly
1026 2011-06-17 06:20:20 <Validus> lol
1027 2011-06-17 06:20:26 <dD0T> got to love security questions for pw recovery
1028 2011-06-17 06:20:34 <dD0T> yeah
1029 2011-06-17 06:20:38 <Validus> mine are random
1030 2011-06-17 06:20:43 <wumpus> Validus: the only way to solve that browser exploit problem would be to run your browser in a vm that doesn't know its outside IP address and can only route through your vpn/tor/proxy or whatevery you use to anomymize
1031 2011-06-17 06:20:49 <Validus> ive never answered a security question properly lol
1032 2011-06-17 06:20:54 <Validus> and ive only forgettin my password once for my isp
1033 2011-06-17 06:21:11 <Validus> if it gets on your system. it doesnt matter. if your connected its possible
1034 2011-06-17 06:21:12 <dD0T> what is your mothers maiden name? Oh I don't know, let me check on fb real quick haha
1035 2011-06-17 06:21:14 <Validus> vm does not protect as much as you think
1036 2011-06-17 06:21:37 <wumpus> it does take some time to break out of, so if you can detect when it is compromised you can wipe it and restart
1037 2011-06-17 06:21:45 <Validus> you can route things out of your vm and connect and run things from them as well
1038 2011-06-17 06:21:55 <Validus> thats if you were lucky or just didnt leave it on while sleeping
1039 2011-06-17 06:21:56 <dD0T> wumpus: time? nah
1040 2011-06-17 06:22:14 <wumpus> you'd have to make sure the only way to route out of it is through the vpn, that's simply a matter of configuration of the host
1041 2011-06-17 06:22:15 <Validus> and time is nothing. 30 seconds max most of the time
1042 2011-06-17 06:22:23 <Validus> for anyone knowing what they are doing
1043 2011-06-17 06:22:30 <wumpus> how would you break out of a hardware vm in 30 seconds?
1044 2011-06-17 06:22:34 <dD0T> wumpus: it's just pretty unlikely to be targeted with that level of sophistication that would try to break out
1045 2011-06-17 06:22:47 <wumpus> if you could do that you could also hack amazon for example
1046 2011-06-17 06:22:48 <dD0T> just not worth it for an 0815 attack
1047 2011-06-17 06:22:48 <Validus> depends how they planned the attack etc
1048 2011-06-17 06:23:02 <wumpus> yes it's possible, but unlikely
1049 2011-06-17 06:23:25 <Validus> i was talking to a "sys admin" the other day that had 114 updates due on his box...
1050 2011-06-17 06:23:36 <Validus> like wtf man
1051 2011-06-17 06:23:44 <Validus> it even updates it for you and you dont....
1052 2011-06-17 06:23:58 <wumpus> sysadmins are known to delay updates
1053 2011-06-17 06:24:18 <wumpus> because they still believe in 'if it isn't broken, don't fix it'
1054 2011-06-17 06:24:21 <Validus> not to the point of where it is over 114
1055 2011-06-17 06:24:22 <forests> yeah, like sony sysadmins
1056 2011-06-17 06:24:35 <Validus> especially when dealing with ubuntu and it eating up lots of resources on their pc's
1057 2011-06-17 06:24:36 <dD0T> wumpus: i don't think their gpu clusters have drivers much different from the consumer ones. I don't have to try hard to get mine to crash :-)
1058 2011-06-17 06:24:37 <wumpus> corporate IT departments are the worst
1059 2011-06-17 06:24:39 <Validus> so bloated
1060 2011-06-17 06:24:53 <Validus> whats funny is sony was told they were vulnerable before it happened
1061 2011-06-17 06:24:56 forests has left ()
1062 2011-06-17 06:25:00 <wumpus> dD0T: yes, the CUDA is still a bit of an attack surface
1063 2011-06-17 06:25:03 forests has joined
1064 2011-06-17 06:25:05 forests has left ()
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1066 2011-06-17 06:26:08 <dD0T> gotta love webgl and system codec embedding in some browsers. It's like crying: exploit me exploit me
1067 2011-06-17 06:26:12 <wumpus> dD0T: especially if you go low-level, who knows if there are still memory protection problems with the GPU drivers.. they're closed source after all
1068 2011-06-17 06:26:45 Tycale has joined
1069 2011-06-17 06:27:32 <dD0T> memory protection? in the gpu? I think not :-)
1070 2011-06-17 06:27:34 <wumpus> dD0T: heh.. then again, the same kind of users probably download executables of games from random sites of the internet, which is even less secure
1071 2011-06-17 06:27:49 <wumpus> dD0T: I think yes.. nv80+ has a MMU
1072 2011-06-17 06:27:53 <Validus> *cough*tpb*cough*
1073 2011-06-17 06:28:02 <wumpus> dD0T: it doesn't always work very well though in practice :P
1074 2011-06-17 06:28:17 <Validus> the stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me
1075 2011-06-17 06:28:52 <wumpus> people really need to get into the security mindset, but I think it's a matter of time, the way things are going lately... everything is being hacked :p
1076 2011-06-17 06:28:53 IO- is now known as IOzzzz
1077 2011-06-17 06:29:02 <Validus> so how many ppl checked themselves on lulzsecz released password list
1078 2011-06-17 06:29:02 <Validus> hehe
1079 2011-06-17 06:29:21 <dD0T> wumpus: you have to much faith in the average consumer
1080 2011-06-17 06:29:35 <Validus> the average consumer is a sheep and is told what to buy at bestbuy and walmart by schmucks
1081 2011-06-17 06:29:37 <Validus> and the tv
1082 2011-06-17 06:29:39 <Validus> :P
1083 2011-06-17 06:29:44 <wumpus> the average customer of now, no, but in the future I think things will change
1084 2011-06-17 06:29:47 <dD0T> they only consume. they don't want to bother with anything else
1085 2011-06-17 06:30:04 <dD0T> i doubt it
1086 2011-06-17 06:30:10 <dD0T> i see no sings of it
1087 2011-06-17 06:30:41 <wumpus> it must change, otherwise, at this rate, everyone will be hacked every day :)
1088 2011-06-17 06:30:49 <Validus> most ppl probably are
1089 2011-06-17 06:30:49 <dD0T> up to now it doesn't even seem like most companies get it
1090 2011-06-17 06:31:03 <wumpus> companies are even slower than people to adapt
1091 2011-06-17 06:31:23 Mononofu has left ()
1092 2011-06-17 06:31:24 <wumpus> most it dept still live in the xp age 
1093 2011-06-17 06:31:34 <Validus> and still be supported to 2014 iirc
1094 2011-06-17 06:31:42 <wumpus> hehe
1095 2011-06-17 06:31:45 <Validus> or some date in the future, which is just dumb really
1096 2011-06-17 06:31:45 <Validus> move on
1097 2011-06-17 06:31:49 <dD0T> wumpus: win7 already is a big gain in security terms
1098 2011-06-17 06:31:51 <wumpus> and ie6
1099 2011-06-17 06:31:55 <wumpus> yes it is dD0T
1100 2011-06-17 06:32:00 <Validus> win7 just had like 15 updates for security issues
1101 2011-06-17 06:32:02 <Validus> thats not good
1102 2011-06-17 06:32:11 <dD0T> same goes for ie7 and on
1103 2011-06-17 06:32:19 <Validus> but ms security essentials has the least false positives outa every a/v ive tried
1104 2011-06-17 06:32:20 <Validus> lol
1105 2011-06-17 06:32:24 <Validus> which is even weirder
1106 2011-06-17 06:32:28 <dD0T> Validus: there are always security issues
1107 2011-06-17 06:32:58 <wumpus> yes nothing is perfect that doesn't mean that we can't strive to make things better
1108 2011-06-17 06:32:59 <dD0T> Validus: look at your distros security adv. ml :-)
1109 2011-06-17 06:33:37 <dD0T> imho ms is doing an amazing job considering where they are coming from
1110 2011-06-17 06:33:46 forests has joined
1111 2011-06-17 06:33:52 <Validus> ill admit its gotten better
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1114 2011-06-17 06:35:09 <Validus> time for a smoke. brb
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1116 2011-06-17 06:36:14 <dD0T> I'll be gone too. cya
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1122 2011-06-17 06:45:46 <CIA-103> bitcoin: various personal * r1bbecd..343abc poclbm-personal/ (15 files): (76 commits) http://tinyurl.com/6bb2vwy
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1145 2011-06-17 07:16:04 <Gekz> guys
1146 2011-06-17 07:16:11 <gjs278> yeah
1147 2011-06-17 07:16:13 <Gekz> is it possible to cancel a transaction before 6 confirmations?
1148 2011-06-17 07:16:17 <gjs278> no
1149 2011-06-17 07:16:22 <gjs278> if it has even one confirmation
1150 2011-06-17 07:16:24 <gjs278> you are screwed
1151 2011-06-17 07:16:24 <Gekz> I should rephrase as "technically possible"
1152 2011-06-17 07:16:35 <gjs278> if it has no confirmations you are screwed
1153 2011-06-17 07:16:44 <gjs278> the only way you can ever "cancel" it is to never let it go out in the first place
1154 2011-06-17 07:16:58 <Gekz> gjs278: yes, that's not what I'm asking, please be quiet.
1155 2011-06-17 07:16:58 <gjs278> which I did that once when my network connections was zero
1156 2011-06-17 07:17:01 <forrestv> Gekz, 'technically' you can cancel a transaction with any number of confirmations (with sufficient computing power)
1157 2011-06-17 07:17:08 <gjs278> fuck you
1158 2011-06-17 07:17:18 <Gekz> forrestv: not by exploitation of the protocol, I mean a proper op code.
1159 2011-06-17 07:17:44 <forrestv> ah, once it's out there it's going to go in a block if it's valid, and no nodes are going to accept any replacement transaction
1160 2011-06-17 07:18:36 <Gekz> I'm just wondering if it would be possible to add the abilty to send an "OHSHIT" op code that be placed in the next block, and if it were within 6 blocks of the transaction, it could be reversed.
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1166 2011-06-17 07:21:05 <Diablo-D3> so lets see here
1167 2011-06-17 07:21:20 <Diablo-D3> deepbit did 3.3% reject rate for me
1168 2011-06-17 07:21:44 <Diablo-D3> eligius is currently at 2%
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1175 2011-06-17 07:41:13 <hippy69> whats the best wifi sniffer?
1176 2011-06-17 07:44:39 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1178 2011-06-17 07:45:33 <Diablo-D3> your mom
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1183 2011-06-17 07:50:45 <megu> Hello ! I'm not sure if it is the right place, but anyways... Have you considered securing the client by asking for a password / key whatever system before each send ? Say I let my client open on my desktop, or someone steals my wallet. they shouldn't be able to use it without my key
1184 2011-06-17 07:51:28 <megu> this could be optional to keep the thing easy-if-you-are-not-paranoid
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1187 2011-06-17 07:53:44 <ersi> megu: Yes
1188 2011-06-17 07:54:00 <ersi> megu: and not just 'password protected', but encrypted
1189 2011-06-17 07:54:45 <megu> I did read about the encrypted wallet, but my point was about asking the key for every transaction
1190 2011-06-17 07:56:42 <ersi> As far as I've seen discussed here, that is the plan. Both for start-up and for transactions
1191 2011-06-17 07:57:06 <megu> its great then :)
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1194 2011-06-17 07:57:42 <megu> it would be nice to have a confirmation asked too. like "you are about to send xxx to yyy - are you sure ?
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1197 2011-06-17 08:00:44 <ersi> I imagine that's what the password prompt would be?
1198 2011-06-17 08:01:09 <megu> clever !
1199 2011-06-17 08:01:12 <ersi> "You're about to send a transaction of X BTC to ADDRESS. Type in your password to confirm the transaction:" :)
1200 2011-06-17 08:03:27 <SomeoneWeird> lol
1201 2011-06-17 08:07:06 <stuhood> needs a captcha =P
1202 2011-06-17 08:08:03 hipeople has joined
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1204 2011-06-17 08:08:39 <ersi> Fuck captchas
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1212 2011-06-17 08:15:44 <hipeople> im just looking for a program that will detect open networks while im driving with my netbook open, anyone know of any?
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1214 2011-06-17 08:20:06 <TommyBoy3G> http://techcrunch.com/2011/06/16/payments-service-dwolla-hits-1m-a-week-in-transactions/
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1216 2011-06-17 08:20:58 <_dr> hipeople: let me see if my grey cells still work
1217 2011-06-17 08:21:26 <hipeople> okay thanks :)
1218 2011-06-17 08:21:34 <_dr> aircrack for cracking wep
1219 2011-06-17 08:21:46 <hipeople> wep?
1220 2011-06-17 08:21:58 <_dr> wardriving... netstumbler, kismet
1221 2011-06-17 08:22:06 ajuvo has joined
1222 2011-06-17 08:22:12 <hipeople> whats wep?
1223 2011-06-17 08:22:23 <_dr> pre-wpa wireless encryption
1224 2011-06-17 08:22:32 <_dr> it's been a long time since i've been doing this stuff :)
1225 2011-06-17 08:22:39 <hipeople> is that like the passwords people put on the networks?
1226 2011-06-17 08:22:42 <_dr> 48bit crappy rc4 cipher
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1235 2011-06-17 08:40:50 <SomeoneWeird> 0_o
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1237 2011-06-17 08:47:57 <darbsllim> Hey MagicalTux, I sent an email last week to the email listed on mtgox about a problem we're having, including a screenshot
1238 2011-06-17 08:48:09 <darbsllim> nobody got back to me though, whats the best way to get info?
1239 2011-06-17 08:48:47 <MagicalTux> darbsllim: ticket number ?
1240 2011-06-17 08:49:33 <darbsllim> no itcket number
1241 2011-06-17 08:49:39 <darbsllim> this was before you started using zendesk
1242 2011-06-17 08:49:47 <forrestv> can some dev please look at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/324 ... need to know if the output format is okay
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1246 2011-06-17 08:51:54 <lianj> forrestv: why not make it the same as on blockexplorer?
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1249 2011-06-17 08:52:08 <darbsllim> MagicalTux I just re-submitted the problem this time to support@mtgox.zendesk.com.
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1251 2011-06-17 08:54:01 <forrestv> lianj, blockexplorer does some things differently ... like disassemble scripts
1252 2011-06-17 08:54:12 <forrestv> i was mostly following the labels on the Protocol Specification page
1253 2011-06-17 08:55:16 <forrestv> it could follow more closely, but blockexplorer isn't really that important
1254 2011-06-17 08:55:36 <forrestv> well, what i mean is - does anybody grab those raw pages and parse them?
1255 2011-06-17 08:56:43 <lianj> the blockexplorer ones? i guess yes :)
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1268 2011-06-17 09:19:41 <BlueMatt> forrestv: now I cant speak for others, but I would prefer to see that kind of thing in patches and branches, not in mainline...maybe a ways down the road once we can clean up some of the internal crap and generally clean the api, but for now...not so sure it will get pulled
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1271 2011-06-17 09:22:53 <forrestv> BlueMatt, ah ... there needs to be some way to get at bitcoin's internal data, though!
1272 2011-06-17 09:23:11 <forrestv> for pools or other interesting things that pop up
1273 2011-06-17 09:24:03 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1275 2011-06-17 09:24:42 <BlueMatt> I agree, but for now, the rpc is such a mess and all the crap it calls is as well, once most of that gets cleaned up and rpc turns into a wrapper calling the same functions as wx, qt, etc we can make functions that do that and release as libbitcoin, but until the codebase is cleaned a bit, well more and more features seems like a bad idea
1276 2011-06-17 09:25:15 <sipa> indeed, i think there is already a lot of code shared between rpc and wx
1277 2011-06-17 09:26:00 <BlueMatt> yea, but I prefer the majority of rpc calls/wx calls to call one function and not do any touching of internal data structures...aka libbitcoin
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1280 2011-06-17 09:29:10 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * re0e5756 / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java :
1281 2011-06-17 09:29:10 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Fixes to deal with pushpool bugs: Added async sendwork, obsessive LP failure retrying, and time
1282 2011-06-17 09:29:10 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: incrementing on nonce saturation getwork failure - http://bit.ly/iod5ba
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1286 2011-06-17 09:31:34 <krekbwoy> how should I interpret the next retarget displayed by http://blockexplorer.com/q/nextretarget ?
1287 2011-06-17 09:33:34 prdelka has joined
1288 2011-06-17 09:33:39 <prdelka> having trouble compiling bitcoin on 32bit ubuntu
1289 2011-06-17 09:33:41 <prdelka> headers.h:31:25: error: wx/stdpaths.h: No such file or directory
1290 2011-06-17 09:33:50 <prdelka> any idea what i need todo to fi it?
1291 2011-06-17 09:34:31 <iera> wx is slotted in ubuntu iirc so it is in another directory
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1294 2011-06-17 09:37:37 <prdelka> so how do i fix it?
1295 2011-06-17 09:37:41 <prdelka> the other wx files are found
1296 2011-06-17 09:38:24 <iera> look where it is and adjust the path in the configure script i guess
1297 2011-06-17 09:38:36 <iera> or supply some --prefix argument
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1299 2011-06-17 09:39:14 <prdelka> hmm there isnt a configure script in the bitcoin sources i have
1300 2011-06-17 09:39:16 <prdelka> just a makefile
1301 2011-06-17 09:40:05 <sipa> prdelka: there is a patch to use autotools that will be merged soon
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1318 2011-06-17 10:00:13 <topi`> what is this bitcoin7.com?  does anyone know who's behind it?
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1320 2011-06-17 10:00:50 <cacheson> topi`: some bulgarian gaming company, allegedly
1321 2011-06-17 10:01:12 <cacheson> the guy running it has posted on the forum, though I don't think anyone knows him
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1323 2011-06-17 10:01:28 <topi`> i don't trtust bulgarians :D
1324 2011-06-17 10:02:19 <topi`> we need an alternative for mtgox inside the EU borders.
1325 2011-06-17 10:03:24 <topi`> sipa: another, more useful , patch would be  ripping off wxwidgets altogether >:)
1326 2011-06-17 10:03:56 <topi`> the daemon could be interfaced via a web browser anyways, using advanced javascript ;)
1327 2011-06-17 10:04:15 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1328 2011-06-17 10:04:19 * ericmock is ripping off wxwidgets
1329 2011-06-17 10:05:08 <sipa> topi`: you'll be able to choose at compile time which gui you want
1330 2011-06-17 10:05:16 <ericmock> but to replace it with Cocoa...
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1350 2011-06-17 10:46:53 <upb> prdelka:!!!!!
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1353 2011-06-17 10:55:49 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r24c2e9e / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Fix minor problems - http://bit.ly/jQgjvt
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1367 2011-06-17 11:15:14 <forrestv> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18313.0 - p2pool - Decentralized, Absolutely DoS-Proof, Pool Hopping-Proof Pool
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1374 2011-06-17 11:20:38 <enquire> isn't equivalent to creating 1 block every second, worth 50/600 coins?
1375 2011-06-17 11:20:48 <Joric> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/i207m/bitcoin_security_what/
1376 2011-06-17 11:21:11 <forrestv> enquire, if everybody uses it, yes, but ... it isn't one long chain
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1378 2011-06-17 11:21:23 <edcba> damn p2pool
1379 2011-06-17 11:21:26 <forrestv> it makes one chain per attempt and then throws it away when a block is created
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1381 2011-06-17 11:21:37 <forrestv> edcba, ?
1382 2011-06-17 11:21:44 <Joric> i wasn't thinking about this but maybe it's really worth to make sending funds a bit less 'easy'
1383 2011-06-17 11:21:48 <edcba> you stole a part from what i intended to do :)
1384 2011-06-17 11:21:54 <forrestv> which part?
1385 2011-06-17 11:22:47 <edcba> the p2p pool part lol
1386 2011-06-17 11:22:55 <forrestv> ah, how'd you plan to do it?
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1390 2011-06-17 11:24:02 <edcba> hmm also an option to minimize bw nice
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1394 2011-06-17 11:24:33 <edcba> i wanted to give something else with the p2p pool :)
1395 2011-06-17 11:24:45 <edcba> the pool is what brings money
1396 2011-06-17 11:25:01 <edcba> so i wanted it p2p for not being ddosed :)
1397 2011-06-17 11:25:37 Tril has joined
1398 2011-06-17 11:26:15 <edcba> but apart that really nothing common to your idea
1399 2011-06-17 11:26:47 <upb> but isnt a pool inherently centralized, how do yoi make it p2p
1400 2011-06-17 11:27:02 <edcba> ie i wouldn't use a bitcoin chain like to do that
1401 2011-06-17 11:27:29 <Tril> I'm trying to get the latest source code from subversion (0.3.23), but it's not showing any changes. Did we stop using subversion for releasing code?
1402 2011-06-17 11:27:33 <edcba> upb: it's only to replace the rpc server
1403 2011-06-17 11:27:49 <edcba> ie there is still only 1 entity distributing money
1404 2011-06-17 11:28:05 <edcba> but shares/proofs/etc are distributed p2p
1405 2011-06-17 11:28:12 <upb> og
1406 2011-06-17 11:28:14 <upb> oh
1407 2011-06-17 11:28:20 <enquire> p2p source code anybody?
1408 2011-06-17 11:28:25 <lfm> Tril ya there is a git for current source now or you can get the source from the tar file
1409 2011-06-17 11:28:55 <lfm> enquire: huh?
1410 2011-06-17 11:28:58 <enquire> p2pgit just trademarked!
1411 2011-06-17 11:29:13 <enquire> or bitgit?
1412 2011-06-17 11:29:15 <Tril> lfm: it would help if somebody could update https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Development_process when the development process changes.
1413 2011-06-17 11:29:27 <lfm> yup
1414 2011-06-17 11:31:51 <Tril> lfm: should I use the main github repo with a tag of v0.3.23?
1415 2011-06-17 11:32:06 <lfm> Im not sure. I dont use it myself
1416 2011-06-17 11:32:33 <Joric> http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/all-your-bitcoins-are-ours
1417 2011-06-17 11:32:46 <Joric> "If you use Bitcoins, you have the option to encrypt your wallet"
1418 2011-06-17 11:33:00 <cacheson> they misspelled "are belong to us"
1419 2011-06-17 11:33:26 <Joric> the option really is "copy your wallet dat to a truecrypt volume on a separate Linux system with (insert various acronyms and buzzwords)"
1420 2011-06-17 11:33:30 <forrestv> edcba, most of the money generated goes directly to the miners' wallets
1421 2011-06-17 11:33:47 <enquire> were is that encryption option? i don't see it in my client
1422 2011-06-17 11:33:57 <sipa> Tril: which code do you want?
1423 2011-06-17 11:34:08 <sipa> Tril: github tag v0.3.23 is the 0.3.23 release
1424 2011-06-17 11:34:13 <Tril> sipa: I want to track the latest release
1425 2011-06-17 11:34:33 <sipa> Tril: but not git head?
1426 2011-06-17 11:34:43 <Tril> right
1427 2011-06-17 11:34:51 jeffasinger has joined
1428 2011-06-17 11:35:46 <Tril> I was using git update for the dev branch and svn update for releases.
1429 2011-06-17 11:35:46 <lfm> forests: as opposed to solo mining where ALL the money generated goes to the miner's wallet
1430 2011-06-17 11:36:01 <Tril> *git pull
1431 2011-06-17 11:36:50 <enquire> wallet must be always encrypted, except when sending money / generating keys
1432 2011-06-17 11:37:18 <ersi> upb: hm, are you an OTWer?
1433 2011-06-17 11:38:13 <lfm> enquire: so feel free to encrypt your wallet with any file encryption tool you feel like. its not hard
1434 2011-06-17 11:38:53 <lizthegrey> forrestv: *applause*
1435 2011-06-17 11:39:02 <forrestv> lizthegrey, ?
1436 2011-06-17 11:39:19 <lizthegrey> thank you thank you thank you for writing p2pool
1437 2011-06-17 11:39:24 <forrestv> oh, in general. just seemed strange because i just replied to the forum post
1438 2011-06-17 11:39:26 <forrestv> hehe
1439 2011-06-17 11:39:26 d1g1t4l has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1440 2011-06-17 11:39:34 <lizthegrey> my employer is still stonewalling any attempt of mine to work on https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ciKH3M8WYS49ywz08beXtvpCm2wVGdzU7waKwcn_uaU/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=CJTqyOMF&pli=1
1441 2011-06-17 11:40:02 <lizthegrey> so I am on one hand glad someone else has done something similar, but on the other hand pissed that it's been a month and I've been 'beaten to the punch' :)
1442 2011-06-17 11:41:13 <sipa> see also http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=3461.0 :)
1443 2011-06-17 11:42:22 takezo420 has joined
1444 2011-06-17 11:42:25 <lizthegrey> a fully p2p network with everyone needing to talk to everyone may not scale completely well, but for N < 1000 it's probably reasonable.
1445 2011-06-17 11:42:30 dub has joined
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1447 2011-06-17 11:43:39 Akinava has joined
1448 2011-06-17 11:43:50 <lizthegrey> sipa: I started thinking about the issue due to another thread, the 'solution to the pool problem' thread
1449 2011-06-17 11:43:51 <lfm> Id say it was reasonable for n < 20
1450 2011-06-17 11:44:01 <lizthegrey> lfm: ha. I'm being generous :)
1451 2011-06-17 11:45:24 <lizthegrey> forrestv: the 'if less than 600 blocks between successes, excess goes to p2pool operator' thing is a little scary to me, is there really no way to dispose of the excess other than that?
1452 2011-06-17 11:45:25 <forrestv> (mine doesn't fit into that category :p)
1453 2011-06-17 11:45:42 Xunie has joined
1454 2011-06-17 11:45:50 <forrestv> lizthegrey, not without providing an advantage to pool hoppers.
1455 2011-06-17 11:46:06 <falafell> why does my bitcoin client show "Generated (0.00131346 matures in 21 blocks"? O_o
1456 2011-06-17 11:46:14 <falafell> +0.00 credit
1457 2011-06-17 11:46:15 <lizthegrey> also, difficulty 1/600 of current difficulty I'm worried is too small of a multiplier
1458 2011-06-17 11:46:24 <forrestv> why?
1459 2011-06-17 11:46:25 <iera> falafell: because generated coins cant be spent immediately
1460 2011-06-17 11:46:26 <lfm> falafell: why not?
1461 2011-06-17 11:46:39 <iera> falafell: then it will show up, just wait 21 blocks
1462 2011-06-17 11:46:40 <falafell> i thought generating was removed from the client?
1463 2011-06-17 11:46:46 <falafell> and only goes in blocks of 50
1464 2011-06-17 11:46:52 <iera> it is, did you mine?
1465 2011-06-17 11:46:55 <iera> with another software?
1466 2011-06-17 11:46:59 <falafell> no im only mining in btcguild
1467 2011-06-17 11:47:00 <sturles> You are mining in a pool whiuch found a block.  Your part of the block is tiny.  Also you are a girl, since you are not mining solo. :-)
1468 2011-06-17 11:47:05 <iera> then its the money from btcguild
1469 2011-06-17 11:47:43 <falafell> ehhh thats weird, normaly i just have to click pay-out to receive the payments like a regular transaction
1470 2011-06-17 11:47:50 <lfm> sturles finally someone who agrees with me that solo is smarter than pools
1471 2011-06-17 11:48:01 <falafell> sturles, not everybody is an early adopter with many coins to spend on new hardware ;)
1472 2011-06-17 11:48:06 <iera> no idea what happend
1473 2011-06-17 11:48:56 <lfm> I dont think it has anything to do with being an early adopter or not
1474 2011-06-17 11:49:46 <forrestv> lizthegrey, do you mean that it should be closer to 1/100 or 1/1000?
1475 2011-06-17 11:50:21 <lizthegrey> forrestv: closer to 1/1000. most pools set difficulty to 1
1476 2011-06-17 11:50:33 <enquire> it has everythng to do with having brass balls
1477 2011-06-17 11:50:33 <lizthegrey> so for people with <100Mhash
1478 2011-06-17 11:50:43 <falafell> lfm, without crazy hardware it's not really effective xD
1479 2011-06-17 11:50:45 <lizthegrey> that's 1 share per minute or so
1480 2011-06-17 11:50:48 <forrestv> ah
1481 2011-06-17 11:50:50 <lizthegrey> maybe 2 at 120 mhash
1482 2011-06-17 11:50:59 avalone has joined
1483 2011-06-17 11:51:14 <sipa> falafell: are you sure that's from btcguild?
1484 2011-06-17 11:51:23 <lizthegrey> if you set it to 1/60 of current difficulty, that means that in order to productively generate shares at a sane rate
1485 2011-06-17 11:51:23 <sipa> falafell: you didn't accidentally mine in the past at eligius?
1486 2011-06-17 11:51:29 <lizthegrey> (e.g. at least once an hour)
1487 2011-06-17 11:51:37 <lizthegrey> someone would need... (checking)
1488 2011-06-17 11:51:48 <lfm> falafell: no matter what the hardware, solo is always more effective than pools
1489 2011-06-17 11:52:03 <falafell> idk i tried many pools but i've been running only btcguild for the past 2 weeks
1490 2011-06-17 11:52:07 <lfm> unless you are running the pool
1491 2011-06-17 11:52:20 <avalone> hmm, is this is right place for ask some pushpool question?
1492 2011-06-17 11:52:31 <sipa> falafell: well, btcguild doesn't use generations as payment
1493 2011-06-17 11:52:58 <lizthegrey> forrestv: 15 ghash
1494 2011-06-17 11:53:02 <lfm> avalone: if you ask maybe we could tell you
1495 2011-06-17 11:53:07 <falafell> lfm, can you give arguments for that? with my hardware it tells me 50% chance to find a block in 2 months, within that period difficulty will double about 4 times, how is that effective, that would likely give me 0 coins as a result
1496 2011-06-17 11:53:12 <lizthegrey> forrestv: which is a pretty absurdly high bar to hit
1497 2011-06-17 11:53:16 lumos has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1498 2011-06-17 11:53:30 <forrestv> lizthegrey, so with 600 they only need 1.5ghash/s...
1499 2011-06-17 11:53:33 <ericmock> avalone: yes, this is the correct place...
1500 2011-06-17 11:53:40 <lizthegrey> oh, sorry, misread 60 as 600.
1501 2011-06-17 11:53:44 <lizthegrey> 1.5ghash is still high
1502 2011-06-17 11:54:07 <forrestv> one share every few hours isn't that bad
1503 2011-06-17 11:54:15 <forrestv> nice middle ground between solo mining and real pools :p
1504 2011-06-17 11:54:59 AntiVigilante has joined
1505 2011-06-17 11:55:00 <lizthegrey> forrestv: but if you get a share you're not guaranteed to get paid anything
1506 2011-06-17 11:55:20 <forrestv> lizthegrey, yes you are
1507 2011-06-17 11:55:22 <lizthegrey> due to block being found 600+ shares after
1508 2011-06-17 11:55:41 <forrestv> i'd pay them afterwards
1509 2011-06-17 11:55:44 <lfm> falafell: your math is wrong, thats all. your chance of finding a block on any given hash is determined by the difficulty. you might find tow in a row (ie miliseconds apart). so the odds of finding a block before the difficulty changes means you will make more on average than if you give part of it to a pool administrator
1510 2011-06-17 11:55:44 <ericmock> lizthegrey: wow, it's awfully early or late in CA
1511 2011-06-17 11:55:46 <lizthegrey> forrestv: and the rules for paying the subsidy are not clear
1512 2011-06-17 11:55:55 <lizthegrey> ericmock: I'm in MA these days.
1513 2011-06-17 11:55:55 <sturles> lfm: It doesn't have anything to do with hashrate either.  If your hashrate is low, you are likely to remain poor however you mine, but when mining solo you may be very lucky and get rich.
1514 2011-06-17 11:56:08 <sipa> falafell: lfm is talking about average income
1515 2011-06-17 11:56:16 <sipa> falafell: and that is always highest when mining solo
1516 2011-06-17 11:56:16 <ericmock> lizthegrey: ah, my TZ
1517 2011-06-17 11:56:32 <sipa> falafell: but with massive variation if you do
1518 2011-06-17 11:56:34 neptunepink has joined
1519 2011-06-17 11:56:39 <ericmock> still pretty early here...  I assumed everyone else was in EU ;-)
1520 2011-06-17 11:56:39 albert has joined
1521 2011-06-17 11:56:51 <forrestv> lizthegrey, you mean ... me paying expired-shares?
1522 2011-06-17 11:56:53 <lizthegrey> forrestv: so what's the expected payout of being in first 600 shares vs. not being in first 600 shares?
1523 2011-06-17 11:57:02 albert is now known as Guest92107
1524 2011-06-17 11:57:03 <lizthegrey> yeah - what's the formula for that?
1525 2011-06-17 11:57:11 <sturles> With pools you have to depend om someone elses network connection, servers, etc.  With solo mining you have a decent chance of success even if your own network goes down for a minute or two.  The only risk is of finding a stale block.
1526 2011-06-17 11:57:12 <falafell> sipa, even with the difficulty changes while solomining?
1527 2011-06-17 11:57:13 <AntiVigilante> i can't get bitcoind to start
1528 2011-06-17 11:57:16 <forrestv> lizthegrey, the expected payout is always the same
1529 2011-06-17 11:57:18 <sipa> falafell: yes
1530 2011-06-17 11:57:22 <lizthegrey> and why can't it be done automatically if you intend to go back and pay them?
1531 2011-06-17 11:57:22 <forrestv> as i said, hashing is memory-less
1532 2011-06-17 11:57:23 <sipa> falafell: we're talking averages
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1534 2011-06-17 11:57:44 <sturles> difficulty changes also happen when pool mining.
1535 2011-06-17 11:57:46 <forrestv> lizthegrey, because somebody needs to hold the money to average out the blocks that take many shares and the blocks that take few shares
1536 2011-06-17 11:57:46 <lizthegrey> I guess, I don't see how you prevent pool hopping *and* have the expected payout for 'in most recent 600 shares' and 'past 600' be the same
1537 2011-06-17 11:57:54 <sturles> There is no difference.
1538 2011-06-17 11:58:02 <sipa> falafell: if you have 0.1% chance to find 50 BTC today, and 99.9% chance to find nothing today, you'll get 0.05 BTC on average todat
1539 2011-06-17 11:58:07 <sipa> falafell: whether you mine in a pool or solo
1540 2011-06-17 11:58:13 <lizthegrey> forrestv: ah. so it's a manual risk spreading strategy.
1541 2011-06-17 11:58:31 agricocb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1542 2011-06-17 11:58:32 <falafell> sipa, or you're in bad luck and wont find a block in the next 5 years xD
1543 2011-06-17 11:58:37 <lizthegrey> forrestv: okay, so you'd try to make it up to people by paying them per share the same amount as the other people earned
1544 2011-06-17 11:58:41 <sipa> falafell: sure, but that doesn't matter
1545 2011-06-17 11:58:48 <lizthegrey> forrestv: but you can't do that until you have some short blocks to pay them with
1546 2011-06-17 11:59:06 <forrestv> right, there will be a delay
1547 2011-06-17 11:59:09 <sipa> falafell: there really is no dirrence in expected income between pools and solo, except for pool fees and increased latency
1548 2011-06-17 11:59:11 <lizthegrey> that makes sense.
1549 2011-06-17 11:59:12 <sturles> If you mine solo, you have 0.1 chance of finding 50.something today, which is >> 0.05.
1550 2011-06-17 11:59:14 <forrestv> it shouldn't be much longer than the generation time, though
1551 2011-06-17 11:59:42 <forrestv> maturation*
1552 2011-06-17 11:59:42 <ericmock> sturles: 0.1%
1553 2011-06-17 11:59:47 <sturles> Yep.
1554 2011-06-17 11:59:52 Phoebus_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1555 2011-06-17 11:59:56 <falafell> i prefer the ensurance to get at least some coins to the risk of getting none xD
1556 2011-06-17 12:00:03 <sturles> Refering to sipa's example.
1557 2011-06-17 12:00:18 <sturles> Girls often do that. :-)
1558 2011-06-17 12:00:33 <sipa> falafell: of course, that's exactly why pools exist
1559 2011-06-17 12:00:34 Leo_II has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1560 2011-06-17 12:00:34 <lfm> falafel ok I will garantee you get 0.01 per week or you could have 50 once every 4 weeks on average
1561 2011-06-17 12:00:36 <ericmock> and women don't
1562 2011-06-17 12:00:36 Leo_II1 has joined
1563 2011-06-17 12:00:38 <sipa> falafell: removing the luck factor
1564 2011-06-17 12:00:50 <lizthegrey> forrestv: anyways, thank you for writing p2pool; I urge you to raise the 600 multiplier so smaller people like me can actually use it
1565 2011-06-17 12:00:52 <sipa> falafell: but they do it at the cost of efficiency
1566 2011-06-17 12:01:01 <lizthegrey> and as I promised, I'll look at your code this weekend.
1567 2011-06-17 12:01:17 <falafell> i noticed pools were a lot less efficient then calculated
1568 2011-06-17 12:01:36 <forrestv> lizthegrey, i'm worried about the overhead of so many blocks - on average you'll have (multiplier) blocks in a chain
1569 2011-06-17 12:01:56 <forrestv> lizthegrey, in addition, if it becomes popular, the time in between shares = 600/multiplier
1570 2011-06-17 12:02:12 <forrestv> well, by popular i meant 'everyone uses it'
1571 2011-06-17 12:02:35 <lizthegrey> forrestv: that's fine, you can always split it into a number of different sub-pools
1572 2011-06-17 12:02:39 <lfm> sipa also reduced reliabiliity and increased downtime and we wont mention the chance of a dishonest pool admin (or did you mean to include that as admin overhead? grin)
1573 2011-06-17 12:02:54 <lizthegrey> that's my strategy on the DHT pool - anyone who wants to fork just needs to change the distributor address
1574 2011-06-17 12:03:19 <forrestv> true ... i was thinking of setting up several pools for geographical zones
1575 2011-06-17 12:03:25 <forrestv> minimize latency across them
1576 2011-06-17 12:03:31 <lizthegrey> a good viable pool size seems to be ~100ghash or more
1577 2011-06-17 12:03:35 <lizthegrey> which is not that bad to hit
1578 2011-06-17 12:03:44 <lizthegrey> (about 500-1000 workers)
1579 2011-06-17 12:03:57 <forrestv> as it is, it can scale to that.
1580 2011-06-17 12:04:20 <upb> ersi: i'm on that irc yeah but otherwise no
1581 2011-06-17 12:04:24 <lfm> lizthegrey: huh? why that size?
1582 2011-06-17 12:04:30 <lizthegrey> forrestv: okay, I should probably drag myself to work
1583 2011-06-17 12:04:36 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
1584 2011-06-17 12:04:37 <lizthegrey> lfm: it's the size at which variance gets reasonable
1585 2011-06-17 12:04:57 <lfm> seems very subjective to me
1586 2011-06-17 12:05:02 <lizthegrey> (e.g. a block found at least every day)
1587 2011-06-17 12:05:07 <lizthegrey> and usually every 12h
1588 2011-06-17 12:05:43 <lizthegrey> lfm: it's my personal benchmark. smaller pools tend to have people give up and leave if they don't see a payout within a day
1589 2011-06-17 12:06:13 <ersi> upb: just recognized your nickname and that you knew/shouted hi to drdelka ;p
1590 2011-06-17 12:06:25 <lizthegrey> I stuck with bitcoins.lc to help them bootstrap, but it was rough getting to 100ghash
1591 2011-06-17 12:06:32 <lizthegrey> people were dropping in/out/in/out all the time
1592 2011-06-17 12:06:39 <lizthegrey> but after 100ghash the growth curve took off again
1593 2011-06-17 12:06:40 <upb> :)
1594 2011-06-17 12:06:56 <lizthegrey> and people stopped giving up and leaving
1595 2011-06-17 12:07:17 <lfm> or you were big enuf that it didnt matter if they left
1596 2011-06-17 12:07:20 <ersi> Yeah, antsy miners
1597 2011-06-17 12:08:18 <lizthegrey> lfm/ersi: same effect, different rationalization.
1598 2011-06-17 12:08:48 <lfm> lizthegrey: so ya, it is very subjetive
1599 2011-06-17 12:08:56 <sipa> bah, i hate free transactions
1600 2011-06-17 12:08:59 lumos has joined
1601 2011-06-17 12:09:02 <sipa> why do we need to support those
1602 2011-06-17 12:09:12 <vegard> what's wrong with them?
1603 2011-06-17 12:09:47 <sipa> i say a transactions' priority should be determined as how much fee it pays divided by how 'bad' it is for the network
1604 2011-06-17 12:09:58 <sipa> problem is that all free transactions result in the same number
1605 2011-06-17 12:10:06 <sipa> so which one do you chose?
1606 2011-06-17 12:10:29 <lfm> sipa: so feel free to use that criteria for your own mining and let others do their thing
1607 2011-06-17 12:10:39 <sipa> that won't work
1608 2011-06-17 12:10:56 <lfm> seems to have worked ok so far actually
1609 2011-06-17 12:11:13 <sipa> there is no way to do any reasonable estimation with the current rules
1610 2011-06-17 12:11:19 <sipa> too many exceptions
1611 2011-06-17 12:11:39 <lfm> huh?
1612 2011-06-17 12:11:57 <sipa> "if there is an output below X, you need Y fee"
1613 2011-06-17 12:12:01 <lfm> what are you trying to estimate?
1614 2011-06-17 12:12:04 <falafell> are smaller pools more efficient then big ones?
1615 2011-06-17 12:12:04 <sipa> "if the tx is larger than X< you need Y fee"
1616 2011-06-17 12:12:13 <sipa> lfm: time to confirmation
1617 2011-06-17 12:12:54 <lfm> sipa well since you cant even be certain there will be a BLOCK in the next hour, ya it is hard to estimate
1618 2011-06-17 12:13:23 <sipa> but currently you can't even know whether it will take 1 block, 1 day, or never even be relayed at all
1619 2011-06-17 12:15:27 <sipa> if there were simpler rules (even parametrizable, miners and nodes should and will be free to choose their own tresholds), estimating time to confirmation may be a lot easier
1620 2011-06-17 12:16:52 <jrmithdobbs> looks like the email/calls to linode's abuse department got walletinspector.info yanked
1621 2011-06-17 12:17:10 <lfm> seems if we make it easier to estimate, then people would just want a gauranteed txn rate.
1622 2011-06-17 12:17:13 TD has joined
1623 2011-06-17 12:17:42 <sipa> lfm: which people?
1624 2011-06-17 12:17:48 lumos has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1625 2011-06-17 12:17:50 <lfm> accountants
1626 2011-06-17 12:17:55 <sipa> ...
1627 2011-06-17 12:18:30 MetaV has joined
1628 2011-06-17 12:19:11 <AntiVigilante> is there a 64bit deb for bitcoind 0.3.23?
1629 2011-06-17 12:19:12 <lfm> sipa and the spammer would be required to post 5 days notice before they start spamming
1630 2011-06-17 12:19:25 <sipa> lfm: huh?
1631 2011-06-17 12:19:45 <lfm> so you can estimate the time to inclusion more accuratly
1632 2011-06-17 12:20:03 <sipa> lol right
1633 2011-06-17 12:20:18 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1634 2011-06-17 12:22:41 TommyBoy3G has quit ()
1635 2011-06-17 12:25:19 <jrmithdobbs> anyone have moderator on the forums can unlock a thread for me real quick so I can post a constructive update to a bunch of tards adocating DOSing scammers?
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1639 2011-06-17 12:26:51 <FellowTraveler> Bitcoin is thoughtcrime all crimethinkers are enemies of the State and will be sent to joycamp.
1640 2011-06-17 12:28:37 <lfm> joycamp sounds good, can I get a reservation now, before the rush?
1641 2011-06-17 12:29:02 <falafell> sipa, are smaller pools more efficient too?
1642 2011-06-17 12:29:15 TommyBoy3G has joined
1643 2011-06-17 12:29:20 <lfm> falafell: efficient?
1644 2011-06-17 12:29:37 <falafell> on average result
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1646 2011-06-17 12:30:04 <lfm> solo is more efficient, not smaller pools
1647 2011-06-17 12:30:35 <falafell> so no difference with small or big pool in efficiency?
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1651 2011-06-17 12:31:02 <lfm> would depend more on other factors than size Id think. like the skill of the admin
1652 2011-06-17 12:31:03 agricocb has joined
1653 2011-06-17 12:31:26 lumos has joined
1654 2011-06-17 12:31:52 <falafell> figures
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1656 2011-06-17 12:36:42 <Leo_II1> grml :( why are pools so much promoted?!?! I see them as a threat to bitCoin. Either they are more efficient than solo mining which means the solo mining tool or the network is crap or the pool is cheating. or they are less efficient, then why bother and join them?
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1658 2011-06-17 12:37:12 <Fireball> Leo_II1 - read up about solo vs. pool mining, you'll understand
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1660 2011-06-17 12:37:29 <tcatm> Leo_II1: they have less variance in payouts
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1663 2011-06-17 12:38:15 <ersi> Leo_II1: Good luck solo mining
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1665 2011-06-17 12:39:40 <Leo_II1> yes, but if i have 200Mh/s and intend to mine for a year by joining a pool i might be contributing to a cartel. by mining solo i will end up with about the same amount of BTC. Why would it be better to get 12Satoshi/s if the risk for the whole bitcoin network increases by joining a pool?
1666 2011-06-17 12:39:56 <Leo_II1> compared to getting the same amount every month
1667 2011-06-17 12:40:02 <Wuked> you might get nothing
1668 2011-06-17 12:40:06 <Wuked> even in a year
1669 2011-06-17 12:40:08 <Wuked> solo mining
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1671 2011-06-17 12:40:39 <ersi> Yeah, good luck.
1672 2011-06-17 12:41:04 <ersi> Or, you could do like many others and create a small pool of your own with people you know and spread the love.
1673 2011-06-17 12:41:54 <darbsllim> new bitcoin service
1674 2011-06-17 12:41:55 <darbsllim> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18308
1675 2011-06-17 12:42:00 <darbsllim> just launched =P
1676 2011-06-17 12:42:34 <ersi> It's not free if you have to do something
1677 2011-06-17 12:42:36 <ersi> logicfail
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1680 2011-06-17 12:43:24 <enquire> block chain download is stuck; can i just copy all files except wallet.dat from another computer?
1681 2011-06-17 12:43:26 <ersi> It's free, you just got to work for it!
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1685 2011-06-17 12:45:52 <lfm> enquire: just need blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat
1686 2011-06-17 12:46:01 <Leo_II1> Wuked: i studied maths. "might get nothing" is not my concern. expected profit trade off vs. danger of pools is.
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1690 2011-06-17 12:46:47 <Wuked> what's the danger of the pool ?
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1692 2011-06-17 12:46:56 <Leo_II1> ersi: yes, i run a "pool" with my brothers. 2 rigs running in a server room.
1693 2011-06-17 12:46:56 <AntiVigilante> EXCEPTION: N5boost16exception_detail10clone_implINS0_19error_info_injectorINS_6system12system_errorEEEEE
1694 2011-06-17 12:46:57 <AntiVigilante> Cannot assign requested address
1695 2011-06-17 12:46:57 <AntiVigilante> bitcoin in ThreadRPCServer()
1696 2011-06-17 12:46:57 <AntiVigilante> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'boost::exception_detail::clone_impl<boost::exception_detail::error_info_injector<boost::system::system_error> >'
1697 2011-06-17 12:46:57 <AntiVigilante>   what():  Cannot assign requested address
1698 2011-06-17 12:47:17 <AntiVigilante> how do i fix that
1699 2011-06-17 12:47:25 mologie has joined
1700 2011-06-17 12:47:42 <ius> Leo_II1: Of course mining solo would be better for the network in the end, but variance is a bitch
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1705 2011-06-17 12:48:46 <darbsllim> ersi its free as in you pay no money for it
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1707 2011-06-17 12:48:56 <ersi> darbsllim: hurp a durp derp
1708 2011-06-17 12:49:00 <darbsllim> the faucet is truly free but nobody's supporting that anymore
1709 2011-06-17 12:49:13 <Leo_II1> Wuked: as to my understanding a pool gives me work and dictates what transactions are accepted and what not. also it handles all the communication for found blocks. so the 51% daemon is right there in front of your noses and you promote contributing to pools. what if 51% of the pools decide to not accept 5% of external blocks?
1710 2011-06-17 12:49:15 <ersi> Nice, so I'm getting free money every month
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1712 2011-06-17 12:49:22 <jrmithdobbs> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=16694.msg232117#msg232117
1713 2011-06-17 12:49:23 <jrmithdobbs> :p
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1715 2011-06-17 12:49:39 <ius> Leo_II1: Correct, I guess
1716 2011-06-17 12:49:40 <Zkat_> Probably been answered 100 times already but, is it possible to make bitcoin divisible to 9 decimal places?
1717 2011-06-17 12:49:44 <lfm> ersi arnt you?
1718 2011-06-17 12:49:46 <upb> AntiVigilante: see that nothing is listening on the port ?
1719 2011-06-17 12:49:50 <upb> ip:port
1720 2011-06-17 12:49:54 <upb> whatever its trying to bind to
1721 2011-06-17 12:50:22 <sipa> Zkat_: no
1722 2011-06-17 12:50:31 <sipa> Zkat_: not without substantial change to the protocol
1723 2011-06-17 12:50:39 <ersi> lfm: No. I'm selling my time, in return I get cash.
1724 2011-06-17 12:50:42 <lfm> Zkat_: possiblke, not likely
1725 2011-06-17 12:51:14 <ius> jrmithdobbs: Meh, you're wearing my scrolling wheel out ;)
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1728 2011-06-17 12:52:04 <Zkat_> I'm thinking along the lines of an attack that stole 0.000000001 from every transaction, so that it might go unnoticed. but if it would require significant changes to be adopted by the community, then I guess that is not likely
1729 2011-06-17 12:52:08 <AntiVigilante> upb how do I know which one it's trying to use?
1730 2011-06-17 12:52:13 <Leo_II1> Wuked: the bitcoin network is more powerful than the top 10 super computers in the world, so taking it over as a world bank or so would require a big effort. doing it with pools that cash out +10% for its users would be much easier. there will be enough users just sticking with that +10% argument
1731 2011-06-17 12:52:22 <ius> AntiVigilante: Try strace
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1733 2011-06-17 12:52:43 <Leo_II1> the cash out would be BTC that the attacker would know to be obsolete after his success ...
1734 2011-06-17 12:53:17 <jrmithdobbs> ius: meh, abuse dept people give more credence to email that's signed ;P
1735 2011-06-17 12:53:18 <upb> AntiVigilante: strace that shit
1736 2011-06-17 12:53:32 <sipa> Zkat_: internally every amount is represented as an integer multiple of 0.00000001 BTC
1737 2011-06-17 12:53:45 <upb> also arent you one of those anon/fagsec ppl ?
1738 2011-06-17 12:53:51 <Leo_II1> so some substantial computing power, some fud after corrupt cartel activities and enough miners leaving you would be able to take over with what now would be 10%.
1739 2011-06-17 12:53:52 <lfm> Zkat_: 1: it would be noticed all those .999... showing up suddenly
1740 2011-06-17 12:53:54 <Zkat_> sipa: okay, thanks.
1741 2011-06-17 12:54:00 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: btw those weird parse errors were related to the rpc asyncio patch if you haven't seen those message on the list
1742 2011-06-17 12:54:05 <ius> jrmithdobbs: Yeah, but I, reading your post, don't ;)
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1744 2011-06-17 12:54:57 <Zkat_> lfm: I was thinking that the attack would only steal sums from say 1.47154856 transfers so that it would be harder to notice that last 6 turning to a 5
1745 2011-06-17 12:55:15 <galaxyAbstractor> oh, so Bitcoin gives HTTP Status 500 when a transaction was not possible?
1746 2011-06-17 12:55:43 <galaxyAbstractor> in JSON-RPC, that is
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1752 2011-06-17 12:57:16 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: oh it wasn't on the list was on github
1753 2011-06-17 12:57:47 <AntiVigilante> ok straced what am i looking for?
1754 2011-06-17 12:58:54 <lfm> Zkat_: since the block chain and all txn are public info, its easy to balance txn and anything missing fromn the txn goes into the fees automaticlly and anything missing from the fees is pretty obvious to those of us watching the block chain data
1755 2011-06-17 12:59:29 <upb> AntiVigilante: bind() ?:P
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1758 2011-06-17 13:00:14 <Zkat_> lfm: okay. Thanks :)
1759 2011-06-17 13:00:36 <lfm> Zkat_: in fact what you are talking about is less of an attack than a daydream.
1760 2011-06-17 13:00:54 taub has joined
1761 2011-06-17 13:01:11 <taub> hi, i logged into mtgox websocket over telnet but i dont see any data
1762 2011-06-17 13:01:19 <taub> i got a handshake tho
1763 2011-06-17 13:01:27 <jrmithdobbs> taub: /msg MagicalTux or email him
1764 2011-06-17 13:01:31 <Zkat_> lfm: haha, could be, I know that in the banking world of fiat currencies a woman who was working as a banker was stealing .01 pence from lots of transactions, she went unnoticed for quite some time before she was caught
1765 2011-06-17 13:01:35 <jrmithdobbs> this isn't #mtgox-support
1766 2011-06-17 13:01:39 <tcatm> taub: did you respond to the handshake?
1767 2011-06-17 13:01:51 <taub> well no i initiated it
1768 2011-06-17 13:01:56 <taub> it was a reply
1769 2011-06-17 13:02:02 <taub> and data is supposed to follow it
1770 2011-06-17 13:02:32 <taub> okay thought this was general bitcoin discussion
1771 2011-06-17 13:02:45 <taub> bitocin dev discussion
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1773 2011-06-17 13:03:15 <lizthegrey> taub: general bitcoin discussion at #bitcoin
1774 2011-06-17 13:03:37 <jrmithdobbs> taub: he's been having issues off and on
1775 2011-06-17 13:03:52 <jrmithdobbs> taub: with the api in all forms in general
1776 2011-06-17 13:04:17 <taub> oh, well it is still streaming at #bitcoin-market
1777 2011-06-17 13:04:22 <jrmithdobbs> taub: ddoses and such so if it's not working the way his api spec says it should /msg'ing or emailing him will be more productive ;P
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1779 2011-06-17 13:04:30 <taub> i probably havent figuried this out yet fully :)
1780 2011-06-17 13:04:54 <jrmithdobbs> oh then i'm sorry, you are in the right place ;P
1781 2011-06-17 13:06:48 <lfm> we discus a lot of stuff farther from the topic than mtgox I spoze
1782 2011-06-17 13:07:07 <AntiVigilante> ok no bind() happens in that strace
1783 2011-06-17 13:07:52 <AntiVigilante> bitcoind isn't making a bind call at all
1784 2011-06-17 13:07:54 <AntiVigilante> ?????
1785 2011-06-17 13:08:11 <AntiVigilante> imma reinstall that
1786 2011-06-17 13:10:47 <lfm> AntiVigilante: bitcoin uses ip addresses, not names
1787 2011-06-17 13:10:56 <sipa> jgarzik: forum still says "News: Version 0.3.22 is now available." ?
1788 2011-06-17 13:11:18 <lfm> well it is still available so its not wrong
1789 2011-06-17 13:11:19 <AntiVigilante> lfm what should i look for then?
1790 2011-06-17 13:11:29 <AntiVigilante> also what
1791 2011-06-17 13:11:51 <AntiVigilante> is the correct sources.list entry for debian
1792 2011-06-17 13:12:14 <lfm> sorry I dunno that
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1810 2011-06-17 13:40:46 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * ree684c9c9922 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/trust.php: OTCWebsite: link to trustgraphs page - thanks serajewelks for the functionality. http://tinyurl.com/6faxqgl
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1837 2011-06-17 14:06:39 <fridge> is there a limit to how many transactions can be recorded in a single block?
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1839 2011-06-17 14:06:56 <avalone> hmm, is this is right place for ask some pushpool question?
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1853 2011-06-17 14:17:48 <AntiVigilante> IT was that retarded /run crap
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1862 2011-06-17 14:24:50 <AntiVigilante> i got it
1863 2011-06-17 14:24:51 <vegard> oh man.. 697 connections
1864 2011-06-17 14:24:57 <vegard> my internet is sloooow
1865 2011-06-17 14:25:05 <avalone> ? to pool?
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1868 2011-06-17 14:25:59 <vegard> to other bitcoin clients
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1870 2011-06-17 14:27:24 <AntiVigilante> my bitcoind getinfo says difficulty = 1 - i expect that will change as more blocks come in
1871 2011-06-17 14:27:54 <jgarzik> sipa: yeah, I have no control over that
1872 2011-06-17 14:28:04 <jgarzik> sipa: I think sirius or theymos needs to change forum version number
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1887 2011-06-17 14:38:06 <upb> is there a bitcoin client in python ?
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1889 2011-06-17 14:38:29 <upb> something to connect to bitcoin and send custom packets
1890 2011-06-17 14:39:22 <tcatm> upb: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=tL13jVvW
1891 2011-06-17 14:39:40 <upb> ooooooo
1892 2011-06-17 14:39:42 <upb> :D
1893 2011-06-17 14:39:51 <upb> THANKS
1894 2011-06-17 14:41:40 Jaagu has joined
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1896 2011-06-17 14:42:44 <Gekz> unpythonic python!
1897 2011-06-17 14:42:47 <Gekz> EW
1898 2011-06-17 14:42:47 <Gekz> lolo
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1904 2011-06-17 14:47:36 <upb> easier to use than the C++
1905 2011-06-17 14:47:52 <upb> where its impossible to use any part because everything depends on everything
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1908 2011-06-17 14:50:03 <Gekz> lol
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1913 2011-06-17 14:56:23 <luke-jr> upb: Spesmilo
1914 2011-06-17 14:56:56 <luke-jr> oh, you meant a node, not a client
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1924 2011-06-17 15:10:57 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r032e1ee09c82 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/RatingSystem/ (plugin.py test.py): RatingSystem: fix gettrust to be smarter about negative ratings http://tinyurl.com/3jmzobt
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1939 2011-06-17 15:23:20 <IoWn3rU_> does anyone here know JSON?
1940 2011-06-17 15:26:13 AStove has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1941 2011-06-17 15:26:22 <minus> it's javascript object notation!
1942 2011-06-17 15:27:20 <IoWn3rU_> well yes
1943 2011-06-17 15:27:24 <IoWn3rU_> but do you know how to work with it
1944 2011-06-17 15:27:33 <Gekz> working with JSON is easy
1945 2011-06-17 15:27:36 <IoWn3rU_> i'm trying to make an app in C#
1946 2011-06-17 15:27:39 <Wuked> get a json library ?
1947 2011-06-17 15:27:49 <minus> usually you use a library that gives you json as objects on your language
1948 2011-06-17 15:27:50 <IoWn3rU_> sure
1949 2011-06-17 15:27:55 <IoWn3rU_> I did that
1950 2011-06-17 15:28:10 <IoWn3rU_> now I'm doing an HTTP Post on Mt. Gox using their api to grab my current balance
1951 2011-06-17 15:28:16 <BlueMatt> ok so why do you need help?
1952 2011-06-17 15:28:20 <knightrage> lol.
1953 2011-06-17 15:28:31 <BlueMatt> ask a question dont ask to ask or ask if anyone can help
1954 2011-06-17 15:28:53 <IoWn3rU_> Well the issue is more with the library itself I guess, but I can't find anything on the net about it
1955 2011-06-17 15:29:40 <IoWn3rU_> I set the function HttpPost as an object and it grabs the data from https://mtgox.com/code/getFunds.php?name=blah&pass=blah when you replace blahs with your account information
1956 2011-06-17 15:30:39 <IoWn3rU_> and I return the method that changes the string that's grabbed into JSON, since it's already in JSON notation, but the C# net makes the streamreader grab it as a string
1957 2011-06-17 15:31:14 <IoWn3rU_> the issue is
1958 2011-06-17 15:31:41 <IoWn3rU_> I get a "The given key was not present in the dictionary" error when it's trying to do that
1959 2011-06-17 15:32:02 <IoWn3rU_> I didn't have a problem before when I was grabbing the output of the url, but once I factored in JSON I had this problem
1960 2011-06-17 15:32:12 karnac has joined
1961 2011-06-17 15:36:00 <phantomcircuit> IoWn3rU_, ##c#
1962 2011-06-17 15:36:06 <phantomcircuit> lol that cant be right
1963 2011-06-17 15:36:19 <IoWn3rU_> phantomcircuit: what?
1964 2011-06-17 15:36:31 <phantomcircuit> you have a c# question, not a bitcoin one
1965 2011-06-17 15:36:55 <IoWn3rU_> bitcoin dev
1966 2011-06-17 15:37:05 <IoWn3rU_> I'm trying to grab data from MtGox
1967 2011-06-17 15:37:16 <IoWn3rU_> I figured someone here might've done that before
1968 2011-06-17 15:38:17 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1970 2011-06-17 15:41:28 <phantomcircuit> IoWn3rU_, i seriously doubt you're going to find someone in here who has worked with c# in any meaningful way at all actually
1971 2011-06-17 15:41:44 <IoWn3rU_> phnatomcircuit: fine
1972 2011-06-17 15:41:45 ar4s has joined
1973 2011-06-17 15:42:14 <gmaxwell> um. so.. bitcoin watch is claiming <2 blocks an hour.
1974 2011-06-17 15:42:15 <phantomcircuit> IoWn3rU_, btw, why c#
1975 2011-06-17 15:42:23 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc.stats
1976 2011-06-17 15:42:24 <gribble> Error: "bc.stats" is not a valid command.
1977 2011-06-17 15:42:27 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,stats
1978 2011-06-17 15:42:31 <gmaxwell> Has its daemon endedup on a frighteningly large fork?
1979 2011-06-17 15:42:41 Mononofu has joined
1980 2011-06-17 15:42:56 <IoWn3rU_> phantomcircuit: was working on making a windows trading bot, but am now thinking to make a webapp so you can access it from virtually any system, be it android, iOS, linux, etc.
1981 2011-06-17 15:43:13 TommyBoy3G has joined
1982 2011-06-17 15:43:28 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
1983 2011-06-17 15:44:33 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1988 2011-06-17 15:48:43 <upb> i have worked with C# in a 'meaningful way' :)
1989 2011-06-17 15:48:45 bruce has joined
1990 2011-06-17 15:48:58 <upb> did a few soap integration projects
1991 2011-06-17 15:49:24 eureka^ has joined
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1996 2011-06-17 15:51:19 <upb> IoWn3rU_: seems pretty easy with this lib http://james.newtonking.com/projects/json/help/SerializingJSON.html
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1998 2011-06-17 15:53:05 <IoWn3rU_> upb: thanks for the link, I was using FastJSON, and it's confusing
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2010 2011-06-17 16:02:26 <Diablo-D3> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18331
2011 2011-06-17 16:02:32 <Diablo-D3> all in favor of me deleting this thread, say aye
2012 2011-06-17 16:06:52 Backburn has joined
2013 2011-06-17 16:06:56 <bruce> aye
2014 2011-06-17 16:06:57 <JFK911> lol
2015 2011-06-17 16:06:58 <JFK911> aye
2016 2011-06-17 16:07:01 hippy69 has joined
2017 2011-06-17 16:07:29 <ius> Well, how does it differ from all the other lottery/whatnot topics out there?
2018 2011-06-17 16:08:15 <ius> Needless to say it doesn't really belong in /Mining though
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2044 2011-06-17 16:43:12 <TheZimm> ezl ping
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2049 2011-06-17 16:46:25 <ius> jgarzik: Could you check out my pullreq on pushpool if you have a spare min? Trivial fix for an unfortunate error
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2059 2011-06-17 16:53:03 Eliza is now known as Guest70630
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2062 2011-06-17 16:55:29 Guest70630 is now known as sat0shi
2063 2011-06-17 16:55:34 <sat0shi> heya
2064 2011-06-17 16:55:42 <sat0shi> just checking up on my project
2065 2011-06-17 16:55:50 <sat0shi> u all good neurons working hard
2066 2011-06-17 16:56:13 <Zola> hi
2067 2011-06-17 16:56:22 <Zola> do the devs come on here
2068 2011-06-17 16:56:31 Joric has joined
2069 2011-06-17 16:56:38 <Zola> Im wondering
2070 2011-06-17 16:56:44 <BlueMatt> Zola: yes
2071 2011-06-17 16:56:48 <Zola> i saw these 2 guys who are like leaders of the future of bit coin
2072 2011-06-17 16:56:53 <Zola> and one of them
2073 2011-06-17 16:56:56 <Zola> is a fat nazi
2074 2011-06-17 16:57:05 <BlueMatt> yea...no
2075 2011-06-17 16:57:11 <Zola> who was speaking arrogantly about satoshi
2076 2011-06-17 16:57:17 <BlueMatt> clearly not a guy leading bitcoin then
2077 2011-06-17 16:57:21 <Zola> saying how satoshi is like not capable of leadership
2078 2011-06-17 16:57:31 <sat0shi> it hurt my feelings
2079 2011-06-17 16:57:39 <BlueMatt> though to be fair, that is pretty much true
2080 2011-06-17 16:57:40 <Zola> and this fattie is really embarrassing for the project
2081 2011-06-17 16:57:45 <BlueMatt> satoshi never was much of a people person
2082 2011-06-17 16:57:50 <Zola> cause he obviously is fueled by ego
2083 2011-06-17 16:57:52 <sat0shi> BlueMatt, what are your facts
2084 2011-06-17 16:57:55 <sat0shi> what are your sources
2085 2011-06-17 16:58:06 <Zola> then theres this laid back middle eastern kinda looking guy i guess
2086 2011-06-17 16:58:14 <Zola> i think he wears dark sunglasses
2087 2011-06-17 16:58:17 <Zola> that guy is really nice
2088 2011-06-17 16:58:17 josephholsten has joined
2089 2011-06-17 16:58:21 <BlueMatt> now that guy is not related to bitcoin official sense
2090 2011-06-17 16:58:29 <Zola> whats his name
2091 2011-06-17 16:58:34 <sat0shi> gavin
2092 2011-06-17 16:58:35 <BlueMatt> that guy is doing some kind of consult work to companies wrt bitcoin
2093 2011-06-17 16:58:37 <Zola> he says smart stuff
2094 2011-06-17 16:58:38 <BlueMatt> no
2095 2011-06-17 16:58:43 <BlueMatt> not usually
2096 2011-06-17 16:58:56 <sat0shi> bye friends
2097 2011-06-17 16:58:59 <Zola> bye sat0shi
2098 2011-06-17 16:59:03 <BlueMatt> usually he says stuff that is roughly true, and some stuff that is probably not stuff we want bitcoin to be associated with
2099 2011-06-17 16:59:04 <gjs278> lies
2100 2011-06-17 16:59:04 sat0shi has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2101 2011-06-17 16:59:14 <Zola> so why is the fat one representing bitcoin
2102 2011-06-17 16:59:20 <BlueMatt> though typically smart, but often stuff that probably shouldnt be in the media ;)
2103 2011-06-17 16:59:32 <Zola> nah
2104 2011-06-17 16:59:35 <BlueMatt> Zola: dont know of any fat people who work on bitcoin mainline
2105 2011-06-17 16:59:45 <Zola> he speaks truthfully whereas the fat one is obviously "conservative"
2106 2011-06-17 17:00:10 <Zola> like a force of control, trying to hold stuff back and hold information back synthetically
2107 2011-06-17 17:00:16 <BlueMatt> yea and if you speak the truth 100% and tell the media everything well...not such a good idea to say the least
2108 2011-06-17 17:00:26 <Zola> nah the way out is Through
2109 2011-06-17 17:00:32 <Zola> they cant hold back the proto
2110 2011-06-17 17:00:38 <Zola> the media cannot damn the currency
2111 2011-06-17 17:00:41 <Zola> this is not delicate
2112 2011-06-17 17:00:41 <BlueMatt> if you want more technical responses you can come on here or on the forums or mailing list and ask
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2114 2011-06-17 17:00:47 <BlueMatt> lol
2115 2011-06-17 17:00:56 <BlueMatt> if you think the media cant stop something...you are so far from wrong my friend
2116 2011-06-17 17:00:59 <Zola> ok but for one
2117 2011-06-17 17:01:04 idnar has joined
2118 2011-06-17 17:01:05 <Zola> why is the fat boy so egotistical
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2120 2011-06-17 17:01:19 <BlueMatt> again, dont know of any fat people representing bitcoin
2121 2011-06-17 17:01:26 <BlueMatt> nor egotistical people
2122 2011-06-17 17:01:26 Incitatus has joined
2123 2011-06-17 17:01:31 <Zola> i think you need a more selfless kinda personality to represent the project
2124 2011-06-17 17:01:52 <Zola> bluematt I mean the guy who was saying how satoshi isnt skilled at management
2125 2011-06-17 17:01:56 <Zola> the ego guy
2126 2011-06-17 17:01:57 <BlueMatt> if you could provide a name maybe I/others could defend/respond
2127 2011-06-17 17:02:01 <Zola> you know the one I mean I dont know his name
2128 2011-06-17 17:02:06 <BlueMatt> again, dont know of any ego people
2129 2011-06-17 17:02:06 Elwes has joined
2130 2011-06-17 17:02:28 <BlueMatt> though if you ask most anyone they will tell you satoshi is brilliant, but not the person to do pr, or lead a large project
2131 2011-06-17 17:02:30 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
2132 2011-06-17 17:02:32 <BlueMatt> not at all a people person
2133 2011-06-17 17:02:35 Mononofu has joined
2134 2011-06-17 17:03:01 <Zola> well its his tone of voice
2135 2011-06-17 17:03:15 <Zola> the fat one is always suggesting his own power
2136 2011-06-17 17:04:04 <BlueMatt> so maybe its not even someone who represents the bitcoin project in any official manner, but its one of the many "experts" who gets brought on to explain a complex topic to the media?
2137 2011-06-17 17:04:12 <Zola> it is
2138 2011-06-17 17:04:16 <Zola> it says they are a leader of project
2139 2011-06-17 17:04:27 <BlueMatt> gavin?
2140 2011-06-17 17:04:35 <Zola> send me a pic i will verify
2141 2011-06-17 17:04:43 <BlueMatt> google gavin andresen
2142 2011-06-17 17:05:01 <Zola> THATS THE GUY
2143 2011-06-17 17:05:06 <Zola> he looks like hes from a star trek convention
2144 2011-06-17 17:05:13 <BlueMatt> yea...gavin is not at all egotistical
2145 2011-06-17 17:05:17 <Zola> yes he is dude
2146 2011-06-17 17:05:23 <sacarlson> dam I wanted to ask satochi some questions about the script lang or just a few more examples of different working examples if any existed
2147 2011-06-17 17:05:25 <BlueMatt> lol, ok whatever you say
2148 2011-06-17 17:05:40 <Zola> bluematt just watch the interviews it makes me Cringe to hear him talk
2149 2011-06-17 17:05:53 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: he would never respond, he has mostly given up almost all email responding
2150 2011-06-17 17:05:54 <Zola> he always talks about himself
2151 2011-06-17 17:06:02 <Zola> and why he should be in power
2152 2011-06-17 17:06:18 <BlueMatt> Zola: lol ok whatever you say
2153 2011-06-17 17:06:36 <sacarlson> BlueMatt I would expect as much
2154 2011-06-17 17:06:36 <Zola> http://www.readeratwork.net/wp-content/uploads/mvbthumbs/img_22862_gavin-andresen-and-amir-taaki-bitcoin.jpg
2155 2011-06-17 17:07:04 <BlueMatt> yea gavin is lead technical guy on bitcoin original client, amir runs/works for bitcoin consultancy
2156 2011-06-17 17:07:19 <BlueMatt> its great that amir is really honest for what he does...if you want to offer consult services you need to be
2157 2011-06-17 17:07:25 <BlueMatt> but for media...thats really quite terrible
2158 2011-06-17 17:07:40 <BlueMatt> and gavin tends to be not at all egotistical
2159 2011-06-17 17:07:49 <BlueMatt> at least not the gavin I speak with on a regular basis
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2172 2011-06-17 17:16:59 <rhett> how does the proof of work you submit to a pool compare to the proof of work you need to solve a block?
2173 2011-06-17 17:17:07 <rhett> both are sha2 hashes?
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2175 2011-06-17 17:18:31 <BlueMatt> identical
2176 2011-06-17 17:18:34 <vegard> what you submit to a pool is called a share and is the same as a regular proof of work for difficulty 1 (the lowest difficulty)
2177 2011-06-17 17:18:39 <BlueMatt> except that one has a lower diff
2178 2011-06-17 17:19:44 <rhett> so, to claim a block, say I have to match 12 zeros of a sha2 hash
2179 2011-06-17 17:19:57 <rhett> but a pool gives me a share if I match 8
2180 2011-06-17 17:20:09 <rhett> can't I keep submitting the same proof of work to the pool?
2181 2011-06-17 17:21:28 <vegard> no, because the other input data to the sha2 changes
2182 2011-06-17 17:21:29 <BlueMatt> well its up to the pool to sanely check that each pow is unique
2183 2011-06-17 17:21:35 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2184 2011-06-17 17:21:35 <BlueMatt> and all pools I know of do
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2186 2011-06-17 17:22:13 <BlueMatt> vegard: thats only if new txes become known about, a block is solved, or a new nonce is used
2187 2011-06-17 17:22:41 <rhett> ahh, so each proof of work needs to be unique, or the pool doesn't allow it
2188 2011-06-17 17:22:42 <rhett> ok
2189 2011-06-17 17:23:12 <rhett> but you could also maybe use multiple pools
2190 2011-06-17 17:23:21 larsivi has joined
2191 2011-06-17 17:23:22 <rhett> and get double or triple credit
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2194 2011-06-17 17:23:47 <BlueMatt> no, because the thing you are soliving is unique to the pool/bitcoind
2195 2011-06-17 17:23:51 <BlueMatt> solving*
2196 2011-06-17 17:23:54 <rhett> oh ok
2197 2011-06-17 17:24:06 <BlueMatt> ie you cant take a pool share that is valid as an actual block and submit it to your own bitcoind instead
2198 2011-06-17 17:24:11 lessPlastic has joined
2199 2011-06-17 17:24:30 <rhett> i forgot
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2203 2011-06-17 17:32:22 <wasabi> Hmm. So, I notice this C miner doesn't hash the entire data structure, but instead it offets bytes into it.
2204 2011-06-17 17:32:25 <wasabi> Is that correct?
2205 2011-06-17 17:32:31 <wasabi> 64^
2206 2011-06-17 17:35:46 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r4932bf89e0c7 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCOrderBook/plugin.py: OTCOrderBook: fix mtgox ticker url to use https, since http stopped working. http://tinyurl.com/5wumyy3
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2215 2011-06-17 17:45:46 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r48f33801f1d7 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/ (createticker.py somefunctions.php): OTCWebsite: fix mtgox ticker url from http to https since http stopped working http://tinyurl.com/68wqrah
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2218 2011-06-17 17:50:20 <Kireji> ;;bc,mtgox
2219 2011-06-17 17:50:21 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":19.4,"low":14.19,"vol":100203,"buy":14.52,"sell":14.61,"last":14.61}}
2220 2011-06-17 17:52:08 <echelon> if you're a merchant, what's the best way to set the exchange rate, if you're calculating in dollars
2221 2011-06-17 17:52:17 Incitatus has joined
2222 2011-06-17 17:52:45 hipeople has joined
2223 2011-06-17 17:53:30 <wumpus> echelon: dunno.. volume weighted average of the price of the previous day?
2224 2011-06-17 17:54:05 jackmcbarn has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2225 2011-06-17 17:54:30 <echelon> with current conditions, as a merchant i may have to take a loss
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2228 2011-06-17 17:55:09 <echelon> if i just average the previous day's transactions
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2234 2011-06-17 17:57:39 <wumpus> echelon: that's true
2235 2011-06-17 17:57:53 <wumpus> echelon: though using realtime prices also has drawbacks
2236 2011-06-17 17:58:15 <echelon> yeah
2237 2011-06-17 17:59:18 <MC1984> http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/all-your-bitcoins-are-ours
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2241 2011-06-17 18:03:57 <wasabi> What is hash1 for?
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2245 2011-06-17 18:09:14 lessPlastic has quit (Client Quit)
2246 2011-06-17 18:10:03 <diki> this channel seems very quuuiiiet lately
2247 2011-06-17 18:10:09 <diki> Seems it's missing me
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2256 2011-06-17 18:16:01 <wumpus> diki: you should join the mailing list, it's more active :-)
2257 2011-06-17 18:18:49 AAA_awright has joined
2258 2011-06-17 18:19:20 <Joric> likely bitcoins went down because of the infostealer, add embedded encryption and they probably will go up again )
2259 2011-06-17 18:19:32 <Joric> it's like AAPL
2260 2011-06-17 18:20:16 <Joric> rumour based price
2261 2011-06-17 18:20:34 <topi`> infostealer?
2262 2011-06-17 18:20:41 <Joric> http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/all-your-bitcoins-are-ours
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2264 2011-06-17 18:23:55 th3sl33p3r has joined
2265 2011-06-17 18:24:22 <diki> <wumpus> diki: you should join the mailing list, it's more active :-)<- this thing called a mailing list is so 10-16 years ago
2266 2011-06-17 18:25:04 <BlueMatt> and yet it works better than the forum or irc
2267 2011-06-17 18:25:11 <BlueMatt> old != bad
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2274 2011-06-17 18:29:55 <BCBot>  Stats: http://bit.ly/bitcoin-irc-stats
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2277 2011-06-17 18:31:12 <phantomcircuit> BCBot, wat
2278 2011-06-17 18:31:15 <phantomcircuit> stupid bots
2279 2011-06-17 18:31:32 <BlueMatt> so random
2280 2011-06-17 18:31:34 <wumpus> diki: yes it is, but it is pretty interesting
2281 2011-06-17 18:31:55 <wumpus> diki: and at least there's real development discussion there
2282 2011-06-17 18:32:41 Elwes has joined
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2287 2011-06-17 18:39:38 <Joric> is it possible for difficulty to go down?
2288 2011-06-17 18:39:54 <ius> Of course
2289 2011-06-17 18:39:55 <gmaxwell> Joric: sure, it has done so twice.
2290 2011-06-17 18:40:43 <ersi> Joric: If there's a huge outflux of miners - it'll go down
2291 2011-06-17 18:40:45 oxba has joined
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2293 2011-06-17 18:42:35 <Joric> what's with testcoins btw
2294 2011-06-17 18:42:42 DontMindMe has joined
2295 2011-06-17 18:42:51 <Joric> are they mined well
2296 2011-06-17 18:43:48 <Joric> i've grabbed 5 btc from the faucet, it took two hours or so
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2305 2011-06-17 18:51:57 <wasabi> I am having a hard time trying to understand the 128 bytes that are contained in the 'data' structure returned by getwork.
2306 2011-06-17 18:52:06 <wasabi> Where in that is the actual header structure?
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2310 2011-06-17 19:00:09 <ius> wasabi: It is the header
2311 2011-06-17 19:00:18 Fairuser has joined
2312 2011-06-17 19:00:29 <ius> wasabi: See https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
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2316 2011-06-17 19:01:27 <wasabi> Okay, so that's 80 bytes. The hash is 32 bytes.
2317 2011-06-17 19:01:38 <wasabi> So the first time we're hashing 80 bytes, the second time, 32.
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2321 2011-06-17 19:01:48 <gmaxwell> wasabi: the hash is not 32 bytes. It's 32bytes output.
2322 2011-06-17 19:01:53 <gmaxwell> oh right.
2323 2011-06-17 19:01:59 <wasabi> It's weird because I'm not seeing that reflected in this miner code that I'm looking at.
2324 2011-06-17 19:02:18 <wasabi> And are we hashing it while ordered big endian?
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2330 2011-06-17 19:05:34 <pfifo> anyone know how to open blkindex.dat in php?
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2333 2011-06-17 19:09:59 <phantomcircuit> wasabi, getwork returns half state for sha256
2334 2011-06-17 19:10:03 <phantomcircuit> among other weird shit
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2336 2011-06-17 19:12:58 <wasabi> And is that stuff useful?
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2338 2011-06-17 19:14:01 <jgarzik> pfifo: it's a custom format using custom binary data structures
2339 2011-06-17 19:16:01 <wasabi> And when I call getwork the second time, to post data... do I just post teh header, or the entire data with the header inserted?
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2343 2011-06-17 19:17:46 <pfifo> jgarzik, i can dump it with berkeley database tools, but all my attempts at using php berekely tools dont work
2344 2011-06-17 19:18:09 eternal11 has joined
2345 2011-06-17 19:18:22 <jgarzik> pfifo: it's not a berkeley database
2346 2011-06-17 19:18:33 <jgarzik> pfifo: read what I wrote
2347 2011-06-17 19:18:42 takezo420 has joined
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2349 2011-06-17 19:19:28 <pfifo> jgarzik, so I would need to write a custom functions to get the data into php?
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2352 2011-06-17 19:20:45 <jgarzik> pfifo: correct
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2354 2011-06-17 19:21:11 <jgarzik> pfifo: they are C++ data structures in binary format.  You need to be able to read and understand C++ data structures
2355 2011-06-17 19:21:24 <pharno> how can I calculate the hashes per sec from pushpool? I cant calculate it with submitted share  because I only have a log with shares where the client thinks they are okay, not off all.
2356 2011-06-17 19:21:44 <pfifo> jgarzik, great, so back to my original question
2357 2011-06-17 19:21:46 <pfifo> anyone know how to open blkindex.dat in php?
2358 2011-06-17 19:22:14 <pharno> btw, public chanel logs gives me a 404
2359 2011-06-17 19:22:18 <jgarzik> seems more like #php-help
2360 2011-06-17 19:22:40 <pharno> I think he wants to know how to extract data
2361 2011-06-17 19:23:14 <pfifo> jgarzik, a 'no' answer is fine, someone else may have already written this library if so, id rather not rewrite it myself
2362 2011-06-17 19:23:26 Raziel_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2363 2011-06-17 19:23:35 <tcatm> does anyone have code to estimate next difficulty?
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2372 2011-06-17 19:28:36 <pharno> is there some way to calc average shares it takes to calculate a block?
2373 2011-06-17 19:31:36 hahuang65 has joined
2374 2011-06-17 19:32:48 <gmaxwell> pharno: the difficulty.
2375 2011-06-17 19:33:11 <pharno> So a difficulty of 66 means I have 66shares to solve?
2376 2011-06-17 19:33:32 <gmaxwell> Difficulty 1 shares, yes. Thats the average.
2377 2011-06-17 19:33:42 viggi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2378 2011-06-17 19:34:01 <pharno> hm okay, thanks
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2383 2011-06-17 19:46:25 <wasabi> So... are the prev_block and merkle_root also big endian in getwork?
2384 2011-06-17 19:46:33 <wasabi> Probably...
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2408 2011-06-17 20:15:14 <meLon> There a place where I can convert btc to usd?  Google hasn't implemented it yet :P
2409 2011-06-17 20:15:58 <tcatm> meLon: try the calculator on http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD_depth.html
2410 2011-06-17 20:16:32 skeledrew1 has joined
2411 2011-06-17 20:17:05 <meLon> Thanks, I see the Calculator on there now :P
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2419 2011-06-17 20:22:11 <proprietarysucks> I'm trying to use the rpc api to query how many btc my address has
2420 2011-06-17 20:22:21 <proprietarysucks> seems the only way to do this is to provide an address
2421 2011-06-17 20:22:25 <proprietarysucks> sorry, an account
2422 2011-06-17 20:22:34 <proprietarysucks> however I don't have an account
2423 2011-06-17 20:22:49 <proprietarysucks> am I off on this?
2424 2011-06-17 20:23:10 <phantomcircuit> the default account is ""
2425 2011-06-17 20:23:11 <phantomcircuit> so
2426 2011-06-17 20:23:20 <phantomcircuit> getbalance ""
2427 2011-06-17 20:24:18 <proprietarysucks> oh damn. thanks. I was using something way off
2428 2011-06-17 20:25:10 <proprietarysucks> what is the use of account?
2429 2011-06-17 20:25:50 <midnightmagic> organising addresses
2430 2011-06-17 20:26:10 Evious has joined
2431 2011-06-17 20:26:28 Taveren93HGK has joined
2432 2011-06-17 20:26:33 <midnightmagic> possibly also addressbook in the GUI, but i don't recall exactly what I saw when switching from one to another
2433 2011-06-17 20:27:35 <Raccoon> New Malware Steals Your Bitcoin -- http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/06/bitcoin-malware/ -- On June 1, we told you about Bitcoins, an anonymous, decentralized virtual currency that got widespread attention with Gawker’s story on Silk Road, an online drug market. Today we report on Malware that steals the Bitcoins out of your eWallet.
2434 2011-06-17 20:27:59 Zala has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2435 2011-06-17 20:28:03 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,calc 200000
2436 2011-06-17 20:28:14 <phantomcircuit> ?
2437 2011-06-17 20:28:24 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
2438 2011-06-17 20:28:52 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,gen 200000
2439 2011-06-17 20:29:00 <D0han> to the attacker by way of a server in Poland
2440 2011-06-17 20:29:14 <gribble> Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
2441 2011-06-17 20:29:22 <D0han> there was before fake backup software from poland, right?
2442 2011-06-17 20:29:35 lumos has joined
2443 2011-06-17 20:29:36 <midnightmagic> somewhere over there, yeah
2444 2011-06-17 20:29:42 <midnightmagic> someone lost a chunk there too
2445 2011-06-17 20:30:19 <D0han> how so? rm wallet.dat?
2446 2011-06-17 20:30:36 <midnightmagic> no, by the fake backup software you're talking about
2447 2011-06-17 20:31:50 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2448 2011-06-17 20:32:05 <D0han> thats strange, second biggest BTC market is in poland
2449 2011-06-17 20:32:12 <D0han> i cant see any reason for that
2450 2011-06-17 20:32:21 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
2451 2011-06-17 20:32:40 <D0han> good advertising of bitcoin? or what?
2452 2011-06-17 20:32:42 erle- has joined
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2454 2011-06-17 20:33:30 <ersi> Dunno, but it's been quite popular there for quite a while
2455 2011-06-17 20:33:51 <Evious> Lack of trust for true currency?
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2459 2011-06-17 20:37:19 <D0han> for PLN?
2460 2011-06-17 20:37:21 <D0han> i doubt it
2461 2011-06-17 20:37:32 <D0han> [yeah, im from PL]
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2464 2011-06-17 20:39:32 <phantomcircuit> D0han, moving money internationally to poland is a pita
2465 2011-06-17 20:40:08 <topi`> phantomcircuit: did you see my email that I sent you like 2 days ago?
2466 2011-06-17 20:40:20 <topi`> or did it end up in /dev/null
2467 2011-06-17 20:40:40 <phantomcircuit> probably saw but got distracted
2468 2011-06-17 20:41:51 <phantomcircuit> topi`, not for profit right?
2469 2011-06-17 20:41:51 <wasabi> Okay. I am getting there... the data to be sent to getwork, is that simply the 80 byte header?
2470 2011-06-17 20:41:56 <wasabi> Or should it include more?
2471 2011-06-17 20:42:23 <gmaxwell> wasabi: thats all it has to include, it could also instead be the 32 byte state after the sha-256 initial expansion.
2472 2011-06-17 20:42:45 stormgren_ has quit (Quit: stormgren_)
2473 2011-06-17 20:42:52 <wasabi> I'm unfortunately not sure what that means.
2474 2011-06-17 20:43:10 <wasabi> You mean the second half of the header?
2475 2011-06-17 20:43:23 Elwes has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2476 2011-06-17 20:43:34 <D0han> phantomcircuit: true about that, but i dont really see that people would trust enough BTC to do that
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2479 2011-06-17 20:44:12 <phantomcircuit> D0han, uh people are buying significant amounts
2480 2011-06-17 20:44:14 <phantomcircuit> or were
2481 2011-06-17 20:44:25 loopyduck has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2482 2011-06-17 20:44:55 <phantomcircuit> D0han, currency conversion is usually 3%, so doing it for free can save a lot of money
2483 2011-06-17 20:45:15 <topi`> phantomcircuit: I want to find out good ways of enabling bitcoin use in light devices
2484 2011-06-17 20:45:30 <topi`> i don't need to make profit if I can make the value of my existing bitcoins rise higher :)
2485 2011-06-17 20:45:33 <D0han> mhm
2486 2011-06-17 20:46:12 <gmaxwell> wasabi: No. The midstate from the partially applied sha-256.
2487 2011-06-17 20:46:29 <wasabi> Ahh. I can just send the midstate back?
2488 2011-06-17 20:46:40 <wasabi> Wait it can't know the nonce then.
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2490 2011-06-17 20:47:39 <phantomcircuit> topi`, lol
2491 2011-06-17 20:48:14 <gmaxwell> wasabi: the nonce is at the end.
2492 2011-06-17 20:48:26 <gmaxwell> wasabi: so you can increment it still.
2493 2011-06-17 20:48:48 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2494 2011-06-17 20:48:51 <wasabi> In data though, not in midstate?
2495 2011-06-17 20:50:06 karnac has joined
2496 2011-06-17 20:50:23 <wasabi> I'll just send the 80 byte header.
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2500 2011-06-17 20:51:04 <wasabi> So... I guess I have one more question. The header is hashed while it's big endian, correct?
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2503 2011-06-17 20:52:01 <diki> jgarzik:what does work not in log mean?
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2521 2011-06-17 21:03:47 <wasabi> Still a bit confused on what the use of hash1 is...
2522 2011-06-17 21:03:56 <wasabi> as it looks like it's always replaced with midstate.
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2525 2011-06-17 21:04:47 Beremat has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2529 2011-06-17 21:06:58 <diki> wasabi
2530 2011-06-17 21:07:06 <diki> it gets byteswapped
2531 2011-06-17 21:07:12 <diki> then hashed twice
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2533 2011-06-17 21:08:20 <wasabi> Well I've been reading a C implementation, and as far as I can tell it's overwritten with midstate immediately.
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2537 2011-06-17 21:10:38 <wasabi> https://github.com/jgarzik/cpuminer/blob/master/sha256_generic.c:   runhash is invoked, first, with hash1, data, midstate. The first thing it does is use memcpy to overwrite hash1 with midstate.
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2557 2011-06-17 21:32:17 Castor_ has joined
2558 2011-06-17 21:33:43 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVM•AVTEM•CENSEO•CVTTENBERC•ESSE•DELENDVM)
2559 2011-06-17 21:39:08 genjix has joined
2560 2011-06-17 21:39:12 <genjix> ;;bc,seen MagicalTux
2561 2011-06-17 21:39:18 <genjix> ;;bc,seen MagicalTux
2562 2011-06-17 21:39:22 <genjix> ;;seen MagicalTux
2563 2011-06-17 21:39:22 <gribble> MagicalTux was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 12 hours, 50 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <MagicalTux> darbsllim: ticket number ?
2564 2011-06-17 21:39:30 computerwiz_222 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2565 2011-06-17 21:39:35 <genjix> MagicalTux: here? this is an emergency.
2566 2011-06-17 21:39:59 <gribble> Error: "bc,seen" is not a valid command.
2567 2011-06-17 21:39:59 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2568 2011-06-17 21:39:59 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2569 2011-06-17 21:39:59 <gribble> Error: "bc,seen" is not a valid command.
2570 2011-06-17 21:40:15 genjix has left ()
2571 2011-06-17 21:40:25 <phantomcircuit> Namegduf, nathan7 UukGoblin gavinandresen i need to talk with magicaltux asap do you know how to contact him quickly
2572 2011-06-17 21:40:58 gjs278 has joined
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2574 2011-06-17 21:41:56 TecnoBrat has joined
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2576 2011-06-17 21:42:13 pfifo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2577 2011-06-17 21:42:30 <eureka^> gjs278; don't irc as root
2578 2011-06-17 21:43:05 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, i need to talk with magicaltux asap do you know how to contact him quickly
2579 2011-06-17 21:43:14 <gjs278> I do not other than this channel
2580 2011-06-17 21:43:18 <phantomcircuit> crap
2581 2011-06-17 21:43:23 <phantomcircuit> do you know who might?
2582 2011-06-17 21:43:44 <TecnoBrat> phantomcircuit: why? did your deposit take too long? or what?
2583 2011-06-17 21:43:46 <gjs278> he has that one guy who handles the cheques and stuff when people deposit money...
2584 2011-06-17 21:43:54 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2585 2011-06-17 21:44:14 <nathan7> phantomcircuit: Hmm?
2586 2011-06-17 21:44:16 <phantomcircuit> TecnoBrat, uh no
2587 2011-06-17 21:44:21 <nathan7> Hey, gjs278
2588 2011-06-17 21:44:23 <nanotube> phantomcircuit: send email to mtgox
2589 2011-06-17 21:44:27 <gjs278> hey
2590 2011-06-17 21:44:37 <nanotube> phantomcircuit: other than here on irc, dunno of any other way to contact him
2591 2011-06-17 21:44:38 <gjs278> my friend usually gets pretty quick responses with mtgox emails
2592 2011-06-17 21:44:41 genjix has joined
2593 2011-06-17 21:44:58 <phantomcircuit> gjs278, i have literally never received a response sending email to mtgox
2594 2011-06-17 21:44:59 <phantomcircuit> ever
2595 2011-06-17 21:45:03 <gjs278> heh
2596 2011-06-17 21:45:10 <TecnoBrat> maybe his emails are going to your spam?
2597 2011-06-17 21:45:11 <nathan7> Hmm
2598 2011-06-17 21:45:20 <nathan7> I can't help you with that, unfortunately.
2599 2011-06-17 21:45:21 <gjs278> the bitcoin industry has many regulations and customer support
2600 2011-06-17 21:45:38 <genjix> justmoon: hey
2601 2011-06-17 21:45:50 <genjix> nanotube: hey
2602 2011-06-17 21:45:56 hipeople has joined
2603 2011-06-17 21:46:07 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2604 2011-06-17 21:46:09 <nanotube> genjix: sup
2605 2011-06-17 21:46:43 <tcatm> genjix: was the 111 GBP trade on jun 13 real or a bug?
2606 2011-06-17 21:47:29 Netsniper has joined
2607 2011-06-17 21:48:15 hippy69 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2608 2011-06-17 21:49:40 <ius> gmaxwell: walletinspector.info turned into a png, on the same linode vps?
2609 2011-06-17 21:49:59 <ius> Why would the VPS owner serve an image of what used-to-be a scam?
2610 2011-06-17 21:50:39 <ius> jrmithdobbs: Did you speak to the owner?
2611 2011-06-17 21:50:39 <gmaxwell> to claim it wasn't a scam?
2612 2011-06-17 21:51:55 Sylph has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2613 2011-06-17 21:52:38 genjix has left ()
2614 2011-06-17 21:52:59 <TecnoBrat> did anyone try taking a .jpg, renaming it to wallet.dat and upload it there? :P
2615 2011-06-17 21:53:03 ahbritto has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2616 2011-06-17 21:53:26 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, that is a real trade, the way britcoin trading works isn't what most people expect
2617 2011-06-17 21:53:29 ahbritto has joined
2618 2011-06-17 21:54:09 spidermon has joined
2619 2011-06-17 21:54:09 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: ok. it just looked a little high :)
2620 2011-06-17 21:54:25 coblee_ has joined
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2627 2011-06-17 21:57:18 coblee_ is now known as coblee
2628 2011-06-17 21:57:53 Sylph has joined
2629 2011-06-17 21:58:57 BlueMatt has joined
2630 2011-06-17 21:59:14 <jrmithdobbs> ius: I left him a voicemail
2631 2011-06-17 21:59:55 Zarutian has joined
2632 2011-06-17 21:59:56 <jrmithdobbs> ius: guy just added a vhost that displays useless crap after linode killed his network access for a bit earlier
2633 2011-06-17 22:00:09 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2634 2011-06-17 22:00:53 <jrmithdobbs> err wtf it's back up?
2635 2011-06-17 22:02:02 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: it's a png now.
2636 2011-06-17 22:02:03 agricocb has joined
2637 2011-06-17 22:02:16 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: still a valid form for me
2638 2011-06-17 22:02:40 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: and I know it wasn't cached cause i had to wait for that shit to load on latent coffee house wifi
2639 2011-06-17 22:02:43 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
2640 2011-06-17 22:03:43 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ping
2641 2011-06-17 22:03:43 <jrmithdobbs> time to shoot them another email
2642 2011-06-17 22:03:56 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: howdy.  I'm about to go cook dinner...
2643 2011-06-17 22:04:32 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: oh, sorry, well my email is down atm (long story, dont ask) so I just wanted to quickly ask what (exactly) you meant by you want to switch to qt from wx
2644 2011-06-17 22:04:43 <BlueMatt> obviously I do as well, but in what kind of timeframe I suppose is my question
2645 2011-06-17 22:05:25 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: as soon as there's a qt GUI that has the same functionality and stability as the wx GUI I think we should switch.  What do you think?
2646 2011-06-17 22:06:17 <BlueMatt> hm, Im not sure, I suppose I agree...but for now I think we are still in the "wweve got a long backlog of pulls to-be-pulled and need to decide which is higher priority as to in what 0.4.X version it gets pulled
2647 2011-06-17 22:06:23 PatrikR has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2648 2011-06-17 22:06:41 <BlueMatt> I guess 0.4.0 is just autotools + wallet class + wallet crypto?
2649 2011-06-17 22:06:45 <BlueMatt> or not autotools?
2650 2011-06-17 22:07:15 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
2651 2011-06-17 22:07:20 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2652 2011-06-17 22:07:34 <gavinandresen> Dunno-- I'll rely on jgarzik to say when autotools stuff is ready
2653 2011-06-17 22:07:48 taub has joined
2654 2011-06-17 22:08:29 eternal1 has joined
2655 2011-06-17 22:08:47 <BlueMatt> ah, ok...well then I suppose jgarzik: ping as well...Ill let you go cook dinner, I just wondered what your exact take was
2656 2011-06-17 22:08:49 <gmaxwell> TecnoBrat: I had fun uploading /dev/urandom. it gives you a ID number for your upload which is just the md5sum of the file.
2657 2011-06-17 22:09:07 <TecnoBrat> jrmithdobbs: it doesn't actually submit the form anywhere.
2658 2011-06-17 22:09:41 <ius> jrmithdobbs: Still valid for you? So he's feeding me (blocked?) an image instead?
2659 2011-06-17 22:09:46 <TecnoBrat> its no longer a real form.
2660 2011-06-17 22:09:47 lessPlastic has joined
2661 2011-06-17 22:10:06 <ius> Huh, it was an image seconds ago
2662 2011-06-17 22:10:10 <TecnoBrat> its just some inputs, and some javascript
2663 2011-06-17 22:10:14 <gmaxwell> I saw the image too, but it works now.
2664 2011-06-17 22:10:19 <ius> s/seconds/minutes
2665 2011-06-17 22:10:34 <BlueMatt> also, anyone have available hosting, a decent level of trust from the community at-large, and a willingness to use that hosting to run a dnsseed?
2666 2011-06-17 22:10:44 <BlueMatt> we could always use more
2667 2011-06-17 22:10:48 <TecnoBrat> its just some javascript with a 1 sec delay :P
2668 2011-06-17 22:11:26 <TecnoBrat> $('#verify').click(function(){$('#throbber').css('display', 'inline');setTimeout(function(){ $('#message').fadeIn(); $('#throbber').hide(0) }, 1000); })
2669 2011-06-17 22:11:26 <jrmithdobbs> TecnoBrat: looks like it
2670 2011-06-17 22:11:31 <jrmithdobbs> ya
2671 2011-06-17 22:11:47 <TecnoBrat> and there is no form tag
2672 2011-06-17 22:11:48 <jrmithdobbs> good thing i noticed that before hitting send on this scathing email to linode's abuse team ;P
2673 2011-06-17 22:12:00 <TecnoBrat> so it doesn't actually submit anything anywhere
2674 2011-06-17 22:12:30 rhett has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2675 2011-06-17 22:12:30 <TecnoBrat> obviously he claimed "its just a joke"
2676 2011-06-17 22:12:41 <taub> http://pastebin.com/KSXMifDk im trying to get a websocket stream from mtgox going, but i get nothing after the handshake is returned
2677 2011-06-17 22:13:50 <jrmithdobbs> TecnoBrat: looking like it. sending this email anyways with minor modifications. because it was def taking post data before
2678 2011-06-17 22:14:15 <TecnoBrat> yea, i was going to say
2679 2011-06-17 22:14:19 <TecnoBrat> all he really has to do is change it later
2680 2011-06-17 22:14:24 <TecnoBrat> and no one will double check
2681 2011-06-17 22:14:25 <ius> Woah
2682 2011-06-17 22:14:29 <ius> It updated again
2683 2011-06-17 22:15:32 Geebus has joined
2684 2011-06-17 22:15:42 <ius> Just some text, still not a valid form. What the hell? Is he trying to cover it up? Still can't imagine this is even meant to be a 'joke'
2685 2011-06-17 22:17:15 <jrmithdobbs> ya, I'm sending them another email. He obviously tried to claim he wasn't doing anything malicious.
2686 2011-06-17 22:17:58 <jrmithdobbs> (I've run an abuse department for a smaller isp before. I know this game. ;P)
2687 2011-06-17 22:18:00 <ius> Yeah that's one of the motives I could come up with, telling Linode it was just a joke.
2688 2011-06-17 22:18:02 twobitcoins has joined
2689 2011-06-17 22:19:19 TheZimm has joined
2690 2011-06-17 22:19:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: i can run a seed
2691 2011-06-17 22:20:34 ericmock has joined
2692 2011-06-17 22:23:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: do you have any preferences as to what software, if not, mysql + powerdns + php-cli and dnsseed from my github :)
2693 2011-06-17 22:23:04 <grand_grunt> Can someone help me to static compile the jgarzik-cpuminer? I'm stuck after hours of tries.
2694 2011-06-17 22:23:12 <BlueMatt> (its kinda slopily coded and poorly done, but it works)
2695 2011-06-17 22:23:37 <grand_grunt> First I download sources of gnutls and do a ./configure -static, then make
2696 2011-06-17 22:23:39 <BlueMatt> sipa: or, as IIRC you prefer, a static list of nodes
2697 2011-06-17 22:23:58 <grand_grunt> Hu wait. Maybe I found it.
2698 2011-06-17 22:24:03 <BlueMatt> Id say get mtgox's node + a node on the dnsseed server (if possible) + the fallback nodes page + whatever else you can find
2699 2011-06-17 22:24:07 <BlueMatt> mostly pools and such
2700 2011-06-17 22:24:18 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: powerdns make that a fail
2701 2011-06-17 22:24:22 <BlueMatt> (but you know that?)
2702 2011-06-17 22:24:26 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: php makes that a double fail
2703 2011-06-17 22:24:33 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: whats so bad about pdns?
2704 2011-06-17 22:24:34 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: mysql makes it an absolute disaster ;P
2705 2011-06-17 22:24:37 <BlueMatt> php I kinda understand
2706 2011-06-17 22:24:44 PwnusMaximus_ has left ()
2707 2011-06-17 22:24:48 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, fuck do YOU know how to contact MagicalTux
2708 2011-06-17 22:24:50 citiz3n has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2709 2011-06-17 22:24:52 <BlueMatt> but thats just because Im lazy and used MagicalTux's php node implementation
2710 2011-06-17 22:25:02 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: wait for him to be on irc and get him then
2711 2011-06-17 22:25:06 <BlueMatt> tends to work the best for me
2712 2011-06-17 22:25:10 <phantomcircuit> sigh
2713 2011-06-17 22:25:15 <phantomcircuit> kind of time critical
2714 2011-06-17 22:25:17 robin_ has quit (Quit: robin_)
2715 2011-06-17 22:25:21 <Evious> why do you need to talk to MagicalTux anyway?
2716 2011-06-17 22:25:35 <BlueMatt> (I typically set my client to mark msgs from someone on the chans when I need to talk with them)
2717 2011-06-17 22:25:35 <phantomcircuit> because i do
2718 2011-06-17 22:25:50 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2719 2011-06-17 22:26:15 <BlueMatt> hes typically on for a couple of hours each day or atleast he has been whenever Ive needed to talk with him
2720 2011-06-17 22:26:33 <BlueMatt> though quite inconvenient hours as hes in .jp and the time gets anoying
2721 2011-06-17 22:26:40 <TecnoBrat> I remember yesterday when people were freaking out "needing him" because of the fake "mt gox has been hacked" messages floating around
2722 2011-06-17 22:26:54 <TecnoBrat> i hope its not one of those
2723 2011-06-17 22:27:07 <phantomcircuit> on a totally unrelated note anybody want to loan me BTC?
2724 2011-06-17 22:27:16 <phantomcircuit> TecnoBrat, rofl no
2725 2011-06-17 22:27:21 <BlueMatt> depends on the rate and amount
2726 2011-06-17 22:27:23 <phantomcircuit> <-- not retarded
2727 2011-06-17 22:27:37 <gjs278> heh sounds like the fractional reserve on britcoin is running low
2728 2011-06-17 22:27:39 <ius> TecnoBrat: fake? mmf
2729 2011-06-17 22:27:40 Mononofu has left ()
2730 2011-06-17 22:27:41 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, loan me 100 BTC @ 10 USD for 1 day
2731 2011-06-17 22:28:05 <phantomcircuit> actually
2732 2011-06-17 22:28:14 <phantomcircuit> loan me infinity BTC @ 10 USD for 1 day
2733 2011-06-17 22:28:14 <BlueMatt> since when does loaning take a conversion rate?
2734 2011-06-17 22:28:24 <phantomcircuit> wait
2735 2011-06-17 22:28:25 <phantomcircuit> rofl
2736 2011-06-17 22:28:28 Taveren93HGK has joined
2737 2011-06-17 22:28:29 <gjs278> didnt you have that one address with all of the people dumping coins into it
2738 2011-06-17 22:28:48 <gjs278> just take from the safe...
2739 2011-06-17 22:28:53 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, how many will you loan me for 1 day @ 5%
2740 2011-06-17 22:29:07 <phantomcircuit> (joking)
2741 2011-06-17 22:29:13 <phantomcircuit> im not taking money from babies
2742 2011-06-17 22:29:23 mmoya has joined
2743 2011-06-17 22:29:46 <TecnoBrat> ius: I know they were ddos'd
2744 2011-06-17 22:29:48 <TecnoBrat> but hacked?
2745 2011-06-17 22:30:06 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
2746 2011-06-17 22:30:11 <ius> There's an awful lot of such reports popping up.
2747 2011-06-17 22:30:35 robin has joined
2748 2011-06-17 22:31:02 robin is now known as Guest47435
2749 2011-06-17 22:31:16 <TecnoBrat> the only "hacked" reports I have seen are people losing their wallets .. none that had stuff taken from their mtgox accounts, but maybe I'm just hearing differnt things.
2750 2011-06-17 22:31:26 <jrmithdobbs> ius: because influencing the market with misinformation is profitable.
2751 2011-06-17 22:31:43 <TecnoBrat> (and one that I saw that someone lost both, likely keylogged)
2752 2011-06-17 22:31:44 <gjs278> Episking says his mtgox acct got hacked I believe
2753 2011-06-17 22:31:47 <jrmithdobbs> ius: p simple really
2754 2011-06-17 22:31:48 <ius> Even from people claiming to have only just signed up, using a strong password.
2755 2011-06-17 22:32:04 <gjs278> or maybe that was his wallet
2756 2011-06-17 22:32:13 <Geebus> I had my mtgox account mail address removed and password changed. I can't verify the funds in it were missing, but I can assume they were.
2757 2011-06-17 22:32:29 <ius> Even on Linux. No it's not unhackable by all means, but so far all stealing attempts were (obviously) Windows-based
2758 2011-06-17 22:32:34 <Geebus> ...and I've had the account since January I believe.
2759 2011-06-17 22:32:57 <gjs278> stealing on linux isn't as easy because all you have to do for windows is a) release the source for the program b) compile a binary with the virus in it
2760 2011-06-17 22:33:02 <lfm> ius you beleive everything you hear on the internet?
2761 2011-06-17 22:33:11 <gjs278> offer the binary to everyone and they'll just take it
2762 2011-06-17 22:33:17 <Geebus> So, it doesn't seem as though it's limited to people losing wallets.
2763 2011-06-17 22:33:17 <ius> TecnoBrat: I've seen multiple posts/threads. And yes, from MtGox itself, while the funds were there (so it could NOT have been stolen by stealing just the wallet)
2764 2011-06-17 22:33:24 <gmaxwell> gjs278: mostly true on linux too.
2765 2011-06-17 22:33:37 <gjs278> eh, I never take the binaries are for linux unless compiling fails too much
2766 2011-06-17 22:33:44 <gjs278> but that is true for most people
2767 2011-06-17 22:33:46 <gjs278> especially with .debs
2768 2011-06-17 22:33:46 <sipa> BlueMatt: hmm, i fear running mysql may be a bit memory-consuming
2769 2011-06-17 22:33:51 <Geebus> Actually, entire thread of people claiming their mtgox accounts were liquidated. http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18050.20
2770 2011-06-17 22:34:07 <ius> lfm: No, but combined with some other undisclosed facts, I'd just like to advise everyone to be VERY careful with MtGox
2771 2011-06-17 22:34:19 <BlueMatt> sipa: well, the mysql part could be dropped pretty easily, and pdns substituted as well...its only php thats the base
2772 2011-06-17 22:34:28 <ius> As hard as they're trying to run a decent exchange, I have my doubts about it's security right now.
2773 2011-06-17 22:34:54 <gmaxwell> The DNS seeds should have good TLD diversity... anyone have a .cn domain?
2774 2011-06-17 22:35:09 <Geebus> My only concern with MtGox is the complete and utter lack of any sort of communication from there side of things, after repeated contact attempts from me.
2775 2011-06-17 22:35:16 <BlueMatt> really, Ive never heard of anything bad about mtgox aside from idiots who have a weak p/w or told it to someone
2776 2011-06-17 22:35:41 <jzknight> is there room from improvement as far as btc exchanges go
2777 2011-06-17 22:35:44 <jrmithdobbs> Geebus: sybil attacks on forums are nothing new ;P
2778 2011-06-17 22:35:47 <ius> Geebus: That thread yeah
2779 2011-06-17 22:36:05 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
2780 2011-06-17 22:36:12 knightrage has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2781 2011-06-17 22:36:23 abragin has quit ()
2782 2011-06-17 22:36:40 <Geebus> ius: there are others too
2783 2011-06-17 22:37:07 <ius> Yup.
2784 2011-06-17 22:37:36 justmoon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2785 2011-06-17 22:37:43 <jrmithdobbs> Geebus: here's the thing. look at the ammounts people are claiming are stolen
2786 2011-06-17 22:37:58 <jrmithdobbs> if there was an actual compromise of mtgox they'd be going for much higher value accounts
2787 2011-06-17 22:38:25 El-Loco has joined
2788 2011-06-17 22:38:55 <ius> jrmithdobbs: Or trying to stay relatively unnoticed?
2789 2011-06-17 22:39:53 <gmaxwell> Geebus: did you also use the same password on your bitcoinpool infrastructure which was hacked which was blamed on slush?
2790 2011-06-17 22:40:05 <Evious> If they were staying unnoticed they'd take thin slices only...
2791 2011-06-17 22:40:21 <jrmithdobbs> nah, it's easier to take out 5-10 high value accounts tha to take out a high number of low volume ones
2792 2011-06-17 22:40:27 <Geebus> gmaxwell: actually, only other place I used it as on slushes pool, and I haven't used it since february
2793 2011-06-17 22:40:36 hereforfun has joined
2794 2011-06-17 22:40:41 <Geebus> as/was
2795 2011-06-17 22:40:58 <jrmithdobbs> Geebus: so the only other place you used it was somewhere you were passing it cleatext with no encryption
2796 2011-06-17 22:41:04 <jrmithdobbs> and you think this is an mtgox compromise?
2797 2011-06-17 22:41:06 <jrmithdobbs> ya. not likely.
2798 2011-06-17 22:41:39 T_X has joined
2799 2011-06-17 22:41:44 <gmaxwell> Geebus: I thought the reason slush was being accused of being behind attacks on bitcoinpool was because of common credentials used on slush/bitcoinpool infrastructure?
2800 2011-06-17 22:42:32 <Geebus> gmaxwell: slush was blamed for DDoS, not hacks.
2801 2011-06-17 22:42:42 <gmaxwell> Ah. Okay.
2802 2011-06-17 22:43:18 <ius> jrmithdobbs: Cleartext is irrelevant imo, slush compromise or trojaning Geebus would've been much more likely (instead of somehow sniffing the traffic inbetween)
2803 2011-06-17 22:43:47 <jrmithdobbs> ius: slush wouldn't have had to sniff anything he has the servers taking the credentials in the first place
2804 2011-06-17 22:43:50 <jrmithdobbs> if you're going to blame slush.
2805 2011-06-17 22:44:01 <sipa> BlueMatt: if autotools ready for merging according to you?
2806 2011-06-17 22:44:04 <ius> Yeah, well, you suggested it
2807 2011-06-17 22:44:35 <TecnoBrat> then there is a guy with a 5 char password ...
2808 2011-06-17 22:44:38 T_X1 has joined
2809 2011-06-17 22:44:49 kermit has joined
2810 2011-06-17 22:44:54 lessPlastic has joined
2811 2011-06-17 22:44:59 <gmaxwell> Step (1). Compromise pool.  Step (2). use stolen credentials to comrpomise mtgox accounts. Step (3) profit.
2812 2011-06-17 22:45:03 <BlueMatt> sipa: not quite yet, Ive got it working fine for my mingw system, but havent tested on other distros...linux seems to be well-done, but windows, and to some extent mac, need much more testing, and afaict windows needs implementing to begin with
2813 2011-06-17 22:45:31 <jrmithdobbs> honestly, if you used the same credentials on a pool and mtgox at any point you deserve what you got coming
2814 2011-06-17 22:45:45 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2815 2011-06-17 22:46:06 <BlueMatt> or use the same creds on any regular website + anything financial
2816 2011-06-17 22:46:20 <sipa> BlueMatt: but linux 32/64, and mingw32 crosscompile on linux are fine?
2817 2011-06-17 22:46:21 <BlueMatt> remember mtgox == a bank to you, so watch what you use that pw for
2818 2011-06-17 22:46:30 WakiMiko_ has joined
2819 2011-06-17 22:46:52 <BlueMatt> linux 32/64 afaict/have heard yes, mingw32 on ubuntu, yes, on other distros not sure, but probably yes
2820 2011-06-17 22:47:00 <Geebus> I'm not pointing the finger at anyone for hacking my account. The only thing I'm upset about is 4 days with absolutely no response from MtGox.
2821 2011-06-17 22:47:07 <ius> TecnoBrat: That's obviously stupid
2822 2011-06-17 22:47:09 <BlueMatt> would like to request more testing on the mailing list first though
2823 2011-06-17 22:47:22 <jzknight> are there a lot of bots on mtgox?
2824 2011-06-17 22:47:24 denisx has joined
2825 2011-06-17 22:47:28 <sipa> BlueMatt: please do :)
2826 2011-06-17 22:47:41 <BlueMatt> sipa: if you dont mind, could you respond to the qt thread for me and ask for more testing of autotools (my email is down atm...long story, dont ask)
2827 2011-06-17 22:47:55 vokoda has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2828 2011-06-17 22:47:57 <BlueMatt> I think the people who really want to see qt merged will help test autotools first
2829 2011-06-17 22:48:02 <sipa> BlueMatt: sure
2830 2011-06-17 22:48:30 <gmaxwell> The fact that all these people used 8 character dictionary-wordish passwords is a nice strike against determinstic purely password based wallets.
2831 2011-06-17 22:49:04 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2833 2011-06-17 22:50:42 Nicksasa is now known as Nicksasa|Sleep
2834 2011-06-17 22:51:57 <TecnoBrat> does mtgox lock you out after X failed attempts?
2835 2011-06-17 22:52:44 d1g1t4l has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2836 2011-06-17 22:53:13 <ius> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18182.0 < That is a nice example
2837 2011-06-17 22:55:26 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2838 2011-06-17 22:56:01 <phantomcircuit> TecnoBrat, 5 attempts/3 seconds max
2839 2011-06-17 22:57:18 <jgarzik> gavinandresen: -ENOCARE when it comes to GUI
2840 2011-06-17 22:57:35 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, BlueMatt: autotools is pretty darn ready.  haven't looked in a week or two
2841 2011-06-17 22:57:59 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Id agree for linux, but for mingw/windows/osx...not so much
2842 2011-06-17 22:58:14 <BlueMatt> in any case, Ive only seen it tested by a handfull of users, would like to see more in general
2843 2011-06-17 22:58:23 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yeah, gotta take a look at mingw32 and get laszlo feedback on OSX
2844 2011-06-17 22:58:42 amiller has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2845 2011-06-17 22:59:49 <gjs278> doesn't qt require cmake or something
2846 2011-06-17 22:59:59 amiller has joined
2847 2011-06-17 23:00:35 <gjs278> qmake
2848 2011-06-17 23:01:03 rationalOgre has joined
2849 2011-06-17 23:01:52 <gjs278> nevermind it's just a makefile builder... I'm sure the makefiles included will be sufficient
2850 2011-06-17 23:01:53 <gmaxwell> ius: so he deposits 17btc.. then 2 hours later it's taken.. no other activity on the account at alll, ever.. and he's been plugging the hell out of trade hill? kinda fishy.
2851 2011-06-17 23:03:06 <gmaxwell> (and they won't disclose the password they previously used)
2852 2011-06-17 23:03:20 <upb> kind of hard to disprove it too, he couldve done it himself using a proxy
2853 2011-06-17 23:04:02 <gmaxwell> upb: or, if a cracker— via proxy software on the victims own computer.
2854 2011-06-17 23:04:13 <BlueMatt> I just find all these stories so fishy, they might be legitimate, they might be faking it, they might be idiots, unless someone can offer real proof of something going wrong, Im not inclined to believe any of them
2855 2011-06-17 23:04:13 <upb> yeah
2856 2011-06-17 23:04:43 <gmaxwell> My account is fine.
2857 2011-06-17 23:06:09 ewal has joined
2858 2011-06-17 23:06:28 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
2859 2011-06-17 23:09:53 <md2k7> looks like there is some work coming up for mtgox then
2860 2011-06-17 23:09:59 Wuked has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2861 2011-06-17 23:10:00 <ius> gmaxwell: Just to plug TH? Bit elaborate if you ask me. So far it's only made me weary of any exchange.
2862 2011-06-17 23:11:41 Wuked has joined
2863 2011-06-17 23:12:30 threedollar has joined
2864 2011-06-17 23:12:36 <gmaxwell> ius: perhaps, TH gives pretty big cuts to people who refer.
2865 2011-06-17 23:13:04 <md2k7> anyone cares making gribble heuristically detect market spam like it's going on atm in #bitcoin, and vote to kick (or just kick) users?
2866 2011-06-17 23:13:15 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin has had no shortage of greedy scumbags.
2867 2011-06-17 23:13:32 lessPlastic has joined
2868 2011-06-17 23:14:54 <denisx> jgarzik: do you think we will ever come down to less than 65536 for difficulty?
2869 2011-06-17 23:15:54 LtBrenton has joined
2870 2011-06-17 23:16:08 <LtBrenton> just had an idea to avoid another allinvain situation
2871 2011-06-17 23:16:52 <LtBrenton> we implement a system similar to PGP revocation keys
2872 2011-06-17 23:16:59 <LtBrenton> except with two counterbalances
2873 2011-06-17 23:17:07 <LtBrenton> #1, they can only be used for large transactions
2874 2011-06-17 23:17:52 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2875 2011-06-17 23:18:09 <LtBrenton> #2, a transaction can be made irrevocable by completing an additional proof of work that goes into the transaction header
2876 2011-06-17 23:18:38 <gmaxwell> LtBrenton: someone was proposing using locked txn for this earlier today on the forum
2877 2011-06-17 23:18:44 <gmaxwell> no one bothered replying to him.
2878 2011-06-17 23:19:23 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
2879 2011-06-17 23:19:28 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2880 2011-06-17 23:19:35 Netsniper has joined
2881 2011-06-17 23:20:04 <gmaxwell> You can create POW locked inputs with the currently defined opcodes (just hash-lock a txn and disclose part of the input, forcing a brute force on the rest)
2882 2011-06-17 23:20:58 <LtBrenton> gmaxwell, walk me through the mechanics of how that would work to the end user?
2883 2011-06-17 23:21:27 tandy80 has joined
2884 2011-06-17 23:21:34 <LtBrenton> i'm not too hot on how the actual network hangs together
2885 2011-06-17 23:22:10 * gmaxwell too sleepy now, go find the post
2886 2011-06-17 23:23:13 <LtBrenton> am I basically thinking the right way around, that it implements a way of backing a transaction out before a 'strike time'?
2887 2011-06-17 23:23:35 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2888 2011-06-17 23:24:29 clojure has joined
2889 2011-06-17 23:26:52 <netxshare> is there a changelog for 0.3.23?
2890 2011-06-17 23:27:53 <sipa> netxshare: the forum announcement post has a list of all changes
2891 2011-06-17 23:29:11 <sipa> LtBrenton: revokable transactions are hard to unify with bitcoin's reorganising block chain
2892 2011-06-17 23:29:14 TheZimm is now known as TheZimm|away
2893 2011-06-17 23:29:22 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2894 2011-06-17 23:29:22 Cusipzzz has joined
2895 2011-06-17 23:30:01 <XX01XX> revokcation should be workable with scripting, no?
2896 2011-06-17 23:30:16 threedollar has left ()
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2898 2011-06-17 23:31:10 TheZimm is now known as away!~TheZimm@c-98-226-5-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net|TheZimm
2899 2011-06-17 23:33:11 henchan has joined
2900 2011-06-17 23:37:39 <XX01XX> Is it possible to put an exchange mechanism into the protocol for if/when there are multiple currencies in the blockchain?
2901 2011-06-17 23:39:58 <jgarzik> denisx: on the main chain?  probably not
2902 2011-06-17 23:40:38 <XX01XX> I think there's something short sighted about focusing on bitcoin, the technology has so much more potential.
2903 2011-06-17 23:41:19 <midnightmagic> subscribing to particular blockchain subtypes would be a lovely future option, especially if merged mining were possible.
2904 2011-06-17 23:41:23 <denisx> jgarzik: the better_hash check only looks for hash[27] == 0
2905 2011-06-17 23:42:07 <denisx> jgarzik: this means every 256 blocks there would be a false positive
2906 2011-06-17 23:42:18 <jgarzik> denisx: look at byte order
2907 2011-06-17 23:43:14 Moussekateer has joined
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2909 2011-06-17 23:43:37 <denisx> jgarzik: what I mean is we could check for hash[26] also to avoid false positives
2910 2011-06-17 23:43:48 kik- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2911 2011-06-17 23:43:50 <XX01XX> Something I've been thinking is that you could have multiple reputation/rating/tag currencies.    So someone writes an article and you could tag it "funny" or "informative" or just "I like it" by sending the relevant token to the address included with the article.    Client-side you could use the given address to search the chain for tx and figure out its "account balance".
2912 2011-06-17 23:43:52 <sipa> XX01XX: no, scripts are consciously constructed in such a way that a valid transaction can never become invalid
2913 2011-06-17 23:44:12 <jgarzik> denisx: better_hash is 32+8 bits of consecutive zeroes, never claimed anything more
2914 2011-06-17 23:44:14 <sipa> XX01XX: as this would turn the entire tree of descending transactions from the coins it created invalid as well
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2916 2011-06-17 23:45:19 <luke-jr> XX01XX: there are already multiple currencies in the block chain, and they do not require "exchanges"
2917 2011-06-17 23:45:23 <luke-jr> XX01XX: it's a simple matter of math
2918 2011-06-17 23:45:48 <luke-jr> the block chain itself is ignorant of the currency being used, more or less
2919 2011-06-17 23:46:02 <luke-jr> it just deal with the low-level satoshi unit
2920 2011-06-17 23:46:42 <Moussekateer> Not sure if this is the right place to ask but does anyone know where I can get a compiled exe of the upto date poclbm program?
2921 2011-06-17 23:47:44 Teslah has joined
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2923 2011-06-17 23:47:53 freakazoid has joined
2924 2011-06-17 23:47:58 <XX01XX> luke-jr... I'm thinking more in terms of putting out recipient-less conditional transactions and then allowing someone else to satisfy the condition in a later tx and then both are completed.
2925 2011-06-17 23:48:23 <denisx> jgarzik: 32+16 bits would minimize some upstream_result = N, but maybe I'm in micro-optimization mode
2926 2011-06-17 23:48:35 Pinion has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2927 2011-06-17 23:48:35 X-Scale has joined
2928 2011-06-17 23:48:40 <sipa> XX01XX: scripts can only refer to information present in the transaction itself
2929 2011-06-17 23:48:48 lumos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2930 2011-06-17 23:48:51 <sipa> XX01XX: and in the transactions that consumes it
2931 2011-06-17 23:49:44 <XX01XX> What if the transaction that consumes it is provisional or unknown?
2932 2011-06-17 23:50:06 <sipa> it will be known at the time it is spent :)
2933 2011-06-17 23:50:06 kika_ has joined
2934 2011-06-17 23:50:08 <ius> Moussekateer: Check the wiki
2935 2011-06-17 23:50:16 <denisx> maybe I'm wrong anyway ;)
2936 2011-06-17 23:51:05 <sipa> XX01XX: anyway, i've been thinking about this as well - what you can do is create an alternate chain in which transactions are possible that need to be signed by both parties of an exchange AND contain the hash of a signed bitcoin transaction to the same address for the monetary part of a deal
2937 2011-06-17 23:51:31 <sipa> XX01XX: to model an exchange between a bitcoin and another electronically representable good
2938 2011-06-17 23:51:46 <XX01XX> Basically I say "I have one bitcoin at X.   Send 15USD to Y and it's yours."   Someone else can subsequently say "Send 15USD to Y and claim one bitcoin from X"
2939 2011-06-17 23:51:49 <luke-jr> denisx: if you're messing with that code, it would be pretty nice to use a custom difficulty per user :p
2940 2011-06-17 23:52:37 <luke-jr> XX01XX: you can't send USD over the Bitcoin network. cash is physica
2941 2011-06-17 23:52:51 <XX01XX> luke-jr... the USD would be the same sort of network tokens as bitcoin.
2942 2011-06-17 23:52:53 <denisx> luke-jr: I make it per worker or autotune depending on the serverload
2943 2011-06-17 23:53:01 <sipa> you can create a token network for USD
2944 2011-06-17 23:53:02 <jgarzik> denisx: basically what luke-jr just said -- if you are messing with that code, just take a little while and fully support custom difficulties.  then all these questions go away :)
2945 2011-06-17 23:53:13 <luke-jr> denisx: user = worker
2946 2011-06-17 23:53:16 <Moussekateer> ius: I couldn't find anything there. The last compiled version is 2 months old and doesn't have the fallback pool options :(
2947 2011-06-17 23:53:26 <sipa> where you basically have a separate independent currency per issuer of tokens
2948 2011-06-17 23:53:30 jostmey has joined
2949 2011-06-17 23:53:45 <sipa> as i may trust X's pledge to repay debts in USB, but not Y
2950 2011-06-17 23:53:51 <ius> Moussekateer: Oh I see he just pushed some updates
2951 2011-06-17 23:53:55 <jgarzik> Moussekateer: fallback pool options are not in the main poclbm branch
2952 2011-06-17 23:53:56 <XX01XX> sipa... seems the way to go.   Get the economics out of the protocol
2953 2011-06-17 23:54:09 <sipa> yes, that'd be very nice
2954 2011-06-17 23:54:14 jimrandomh has joined
2955 2011-06-17 23:54:16 <sipa> it's technically possible i believe
2956 2011-06-17 23:54:26 <Moussekateer> jgarzik: They're not? It looks like he did pull them recently?
2957 2011-06-17 23:54:27 <sipa> using the alternate chains system devised by mike
2958 2011-06-17 23:54:34 <ius> jgarzik: Have you got hilighting turned off? Tried to catch you several times..
2959 2011-06-17 23:54:46 <XX01XX> Make people pay "hashcash" on blocks to enter transactions and you'd probably have a self-supporting network.
2960 2011-06-17 23:55:07 <sipa> nah
2961 2011-06-17 23:55:19 <jgarzik> Moussekateer: sweet!  I stand corrected (happily so)
2962 2011-06-17 23:55:32 <jgarzik> Moussekateer: must have just happened in past 24h
2963 2011-06-17 23:55:36 <Moussekateer> Yep
2964 2011-06-17 23:55:54 <ius> Looks like he pushed quite some code
2965 2011-06-17 23:55:55 <Moussekateer> But I cannot for the life of me get opencl.py to install in Windows so I'm out of luck
2966 2011-06-17 23:55:59 <jimrandomh> In light of the widely-reported bitcoin theft, I think features to protect people with compromised computers ought to be prioritized. In particular, there should be a way to split keys between a computer and an Android phone such that both devices must agree to any outgoing transfer.
2967 2011-06-17 23:56:09 lumos has joined
2968 2011-06-17 23:56:09 <ius> Last time I checked it was on some commit from April
2969 2011-06-17 23:56:23 <jimrandomh> Is this on the roadmap? I've suggested it on the forum before, but no one's indicated a willingness to actually implement it
2970 2011-06-17 23:56:39 <sipa> jimrandomh: that sounds like something for an e-wallet service
2971 2011-06-17 23:56:53 nocreativenick1 has joined
2972 2011-06-17 23:56:59 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2973 2011-06-17 23:57:07 <jimrandomh> I don't think an e-wallet service that requires people to entrust their coins to a third party is a good solution
2974 2011-06-17 23:57:08 kermit has joined
2975 2011-06-17 23:57:09 <ius> Moussekateer: There are precompiled packages for python-opencl
2976 2011-06-17 23:57:30 <jimrandomh> I've looked into it, and it *can* be done without the use of any third parties
2977 2011-06-17 23:57:41 <luke-jr> jimrandomh: encryption already is implemented
2978 2011-06-17 23:57:56 <XX01XX> jimrandomh... I don't think trying to solve problems with particular uses of the protocol by throwing everything into the protocol is a good solution.
2979 2011-06-17 23:58:02 <luke-jr> jimrandomh: there's also talk to being able to regenerate your keys from a username/password seed
2980 2011-06-17 23:58:14 Kurtov has joined
2981 2011-06-17 23:58:17 <jimrandomh> No protocol changes are required
2982 2011-06-17 23:58:22 <jimrandomh> An encrypted wallet does not protect someone whose computer is compromised, because they would sniff the password
2983 2011-06-17 23:58:53 <sipa> jimrandomh: well you'd need the device to communicate with your client
2984 2011-06-17 23:59:06 <sipa> either through the blockchain using something like dual key scripts
2985 2011-06-17 23:59:07 <luke-jr> sipa: wallet protocol
2986 2011-06-17 23:59:11 <sipa> or using a separate protocol
2987 2011-06-17 23:59:18 <jimrandomh> Yes, you would, but that's not so hard
2988 2011-06-17 23:59:19 <sipa> luke-jr: indeed
2989 2011-06-17 23:59:19 <XX01XX> jimrandomh... and a special client that requires multiple devices to agree doesn't protect someone because the attacker could just use a different client
2990 2011-06-17 23:59:26 aristidesfl1 has joined
2991 2011-06-17 23:59:31 <luke-jr> jimrandomh: there's a wiki page for ideas for a wallet access protocol
2992 2011-06-17 23:59:35 <luke-jr> jimrandomh: contribute :p
2993 2011-06-17 23:59:39 <jimrandomh> I think it can be done entirely outside the blockchain, using some crypto tricks for secure two-party computation
2994 2011-06-17 23:59:51 <ius> Moussekateer: http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#pyopencl