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20 2011-06-19 00:19:05 <kiba> yo
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32 2011-06-19 00:34:38 <jgarzik> sipa: what's the status of your wallet class merge?
33 2011-06-19 00:34:44 <jgarzik> sipa: IMO that is the big blocker right now
34 2011-06-19 00:35:07 <jgarzik> sipa: if autotools is not ready for prime time on Windows or OSX, we might need to get out a release w/ wallet crypto ASAP, sans autotools
35 2011-06-19 00:35:35 <sipa> jgarzik: i've been using it myself for a few days after rebase, it seems stable to me
36 2011-06-19 00:35:44 <jgarzik> sipa: push it :)
37 2011-06-19 00:36:02 <sipa> but wallet crypto will need some changes anyhow
38 2011-06-19 00:36:07 <jgarzik> (or pull it, depending on your perspective)
39 2011-06-19 00:36:20 <jgarzik> sipa: yes. all the more reason to merge your wallet class :)
40 2011-06-19 00:36:59 <jrmithdobbs> why's wallet encryption a priority but import/export isn't? With import/export you could actually usably have offline wallets stored in secure locations for large sums. That's real security vs obscurity.
41 2011-06-19 00:37:08 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Pieter Wuille master * ra6b2115 / (21 files):
42 2011-06-19 00:37:08 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #288 from sipa/walletclass
43 2011-06-19 00:37:08 <CIA-103> bitcoin: CWallet class - http://bit.ly/kZnPix
44 2011-06-19 00:37:42 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: wallet import/export is for more advanced users, who maybe can run a patched version themselves
45 2011-06-19 00:38:42 caedes has joined
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47 2011-06-19 00:40:54 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: there are quite a few very interesting features lined up to be merged, but i agree with gavin that the current highest priority is growing pains and preventing end users from getting their wallets stolen
48 2011-06-19 00:41:11 jfrancis13 has joined
49 2011-06-19 00:41:29 <jfrancis13> hi
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51 2011-06-19 00:41:58 <jfrancis13> it is claimed that bitcoin is decentralized. but somehow my client knew where to connect (to other clients) to get the block list. so it can't be totally decentralized. where does my client connect initially to find other clients?
52 2011-06-19 00:42:11 <ericmock> irc
53 2011-06-19 00:42:22 <ericmock> I believe
54 2011-06-19 00:42:23 <jfrancis13> oh
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56 2011-06-19 00:42:27 <jfrancis13> i see
57 2011-06-19 00:42:39 <ericmock> look in the debug.log file
58 2011-06-19 00:42:40 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: there are a few bootstrapping methods: irc channel, dns seeds (optional), and hardcoded list of known nodes in the client
59 2011-06-19 00:42:53 <sipa> oh, and manually adding nodes as well
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69 2011-06-19 00:45:03 <jfrancis13> oh ok
70 2011-06-19 00:45:32 <jfrancis13> what happens if a software bug is introduced into the github source for bitcoin that corrupts wallet files? then everyone loses all their money?
71 2011-06-19 00:45:46 kiba has joined
72 2011-06-19 00:45:51 <sipa> in theory, yes
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74 2011-06-19 00:46:40 <jfrancis13> what happens in this scenario: i have $1000 in bitcoins in my wallet. i send a few transactions. i back up my wallet. i send more transactions. now my operating system crashes and i have to reinstall it, and i lose my wallet file. i restore the OLD wallet from my backup. what happens now?
75 2011-06-19 00:46:45 <sipa> you should have backups anyway though :)
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77 2011-06-19 00:47:12 <sipa> when starting the client with the old wallet, it will detect the wallet is out of sync, and issue a rescan
78 2011-06-19 00:47:30 <sipa> which will detect new transactions in the block chain, and add them to your wallet
79 2011-06-19 00:47:34 <jfrancis13> i see
80 2011-06-19 00:47:58 <jfrancis13> how can it possibly scale that every client has a copy of every bitcoin transaction ever made? in the future, doesn't this mean that every person will need like 10 million hard drives in their home?
81 2011-06-19 00:48:27 <IoWn3rU> no since hard drives will get largers and larger
82 2011-06-19 00:48:35 <IoWn3rU> it scales nicely with hardware
83 2011-06-19 00:48:47 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability
84 2011-06-19 00:48:50 <jfrancis13> but what if bitcoin becomes the #1 payment system in the world, bigger than credit cards? nobody can store all that
85 2011-06-19 00:49:01 <IoWn3rU> adjustments can be easily made
86 2011-06-19 00:49:10 <IoWn3rU> read the link
87 2011-06-19 00:49:33 <sipa> short answer: far from everyone will run a full node
88 2011-06-19 00:49:56 <sipa> but some people will need to (especially miners/pools), but that's no problem for dedicated hardware
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91 2011-06-19 00:56:52 <sacarlson> my bitcoind locked up on testnet with no rpc commands responding. I had to restart it to get it to work. I had originaly had problems with it being slow to respond but now it seemed to have stoped or I didn't wait long enuf
92 2011-06-19 00:57:13 <IoWn3rU> is anyone able to access Mt. Gox api?
93 2011-06-19 00:58:26 <sacarlson> loWn3rU I still use the mtgox api for quotes
94 2011-06-19 00:58:54 <IoWn3rU> sacarlson: my progrma is able to access google and yahoo just fine but when i point the url to the ticker data my program times out waiting for a repsonse
95 2011-06-19 00:59:39 <sacarlson> loWn3rU you need to be loged in for it to work
96 2011-06-19 00:59:56 <IoWn3rU> to get ticker data?
97 2011-06-19 01:00:10 <sacarlson> lown3ru: yes I think so
98 2011-06-19 01:00:15 <IoWn3rU> sacarlson: no you dont
99 2011-06-19 01:00:18 <IoWn3rU> i just confirmed
100 2011-06-19 01:00:29 <IoWn3rU> incognito browser not logged in, im able to access the ticker.php
101 2011-06-19 01:00:34 <sacarlson> lown3ru: well then it must be working then
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103 2011-06-19 01:01:01 <jfrancis13> can i buy a few bitcoints from someone via paypal here?
104 2011-06-19 01:01:29 <Txyru> not here.,
105 2011-06-19 01:01:30 <sacarlson> lown3ru: well when I mean loged in for me my script has to login to get the ticker
106 2011-06-19 01:01:32 <Txyru> go to otc.
107 2011-06-19 01:02:36 <IoWn3rU> sacarlson: i'm running a c# app, how about you?
108 2011-06-19 01:02:46 <IoWn3rU> this is really frustrating cause it was working yesterday
109 2011-06-19 01:02:48 <IoWn3rU> it stopped working today
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111 2011-06-19 01:02:57 <sacarlson> loWN3ru: I run a python script through php
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113 2011-06-19 01:03:35 <IoWn3rU> thats what another guy was doing too, he ran into less issues than me
114 2011-06-19 01:04:01 <sacarlson> lown3ru I"ve been running that now for weeks with almost no problems
115 2011-06-19 01:04:34 <IoWn3rU> the headers i was sent was {Host: mtgox.comConnection: Keep-Alive}
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120 2011-06-19 01:07:09 <sacarlson> IoWn3rU: try it with curl and see what the problem might be
121 2011-06-19 01:07:26 <IoWn3rU> sacarlson: not sure how to do it with C#
122 2011-06-19 01:07:34 <jgarzik> sipa: tip for the future -- please word-wrap your commit messages, when checking them in
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126 2011-06-19 01:08:09 <sipa> jgarzik: regarding autotools: i'm not sure how important automated build on native windows is, as the official binaries are done with mingw32
127 2011-06-19 01:08:12 <sacarlson> iown3ru: curl is just a command that runs in c# from the command line you can manualy do transactions on the api
128 2011-06-19 01:08:26 <sipa> jgarzik: hmm, i thought i did
129 2011-06-19 01:08:52 <jgarzik> sipa: autotools is for mingw32. the only place where autotools does not work is Visual C++
130 2011-06-19 01:09:12 <jgarzik> sipa: I use autotools to build cpuminer on win32, with ming32, for example
131 2011-06-19 01:09:19 <jgarzik> *mingw32
132 2011-06-19 01:09:40 <sipa> right, i mean mingw32 crosscompile
133 2011-06-19 01:10:00 <sipa> as opposed to mingw32 on windows itself
134 2011-06-19 01:10:21 <jgarzik> sipa: yeah, I use autotools for mingw32 crosscompile. Building Windows stuff on Linux is sooo nice :)
135 2011-06-19 01:11:12 <sipa> anyhow, mingw32 on win may be lower priority than mingw32 crosscompile
136 2011-06-19 01:11:41 <sipa> for autotools
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138 2011-06-19 01:14:51 <jgarzik> yes
139 2011-06-19 01:15:08 <ius> jgarzik: Can you merge my pushpool fix?
140 2011-06-19 01:15:30 <sipa> it should work on osx though before it can be merged
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143 2011-06-19 01:15:42 <jgarzik> ius: it looks strange. a positive return value from *printf functions should be valid
144 2011-06-19 01:15:44 <jgarzik> sipa: agreed
145 2011-06-19 01:15:53 <jgarzik> ius: so I want to investigate further
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147 2011-06-19 01:16:26 <jgarzik> sipa: new compiler warning:
148 2011-06-19 01:16:27 <jgarzik> wallet.cpp: In member function âvoid CWalletTx::GetAmounts(int64&, int64&, std::list<std::pair<std::basic_string<char>, long long int> >&, std::list<std::pair<std::basic_string<char>, long long int> >&, int64&, std::string&) constâ:
149 2011-06-19 01:16:27 <jgarzik> wallet.cpp:277:68: warning: converting âfalseâ to pointer type for argument 2 of âbool ExtractPubKey(const CScript&, const CKeyStore*, std::vector<unsigned char>&)â
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152 2011-06-19 01:17:25 <sipa> waah
153 2011-06-19 01:17:57 <ius> jgarzik: Exactly. That's what I'm fixing, look again, the angled brace is pointing the wrong way
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156 2011-06-19 01:19:28 <jgarzik> ius: your change will call vfprintf() __even in the case of OOM or other error__
157 2011-06-19 01:19:58 <ius> No?
158 2011-06-19 01:20:20 <jgarzik> ius: you change calls vfprintf for non-zero return value. -1 is a non-zero return value :)
159 2011-06-19 01:20:23 <jgarzik> *your
160 2011-06-19 01:21:13 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #57: FAILURE in 39 min: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/57/
161 2011-06-19 01:21:14 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: move wallet code to separate file
162 2011-06-19 01:21:15 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: CWallet class
163 2011-06-19 01:22:03 <ius> jgarzik: Meh, you are right. In that case, flip the brace over
164 2011-06-19 01:22:12 <coblee> hey, can a developer answer my question. i installed a chrome extension and configured it such that it can talk to my bitcoin client via the json api. was that stupid? what could be compromised in this situation. i have since uninstalled that extensions. do i need a new wallet to be safe?
165 2011-06-19 01:22:43 <jgarzik> ius: bracket. brace is '{' or '}'
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167 2011-06-19 01:24:56 <sacarlson> coblee: just change your username:password on the rpc or shutdown the api interface if you don't need it
168 2011-06-19 01:24:57 <ius> Right. Damn terminology, I wouldn't even know what to call 'em in Dutch
169 2011-06-19 01:25:21 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
170 2011-06-19 01:25:22 <ius> Anyway, as-is it won't call vsprintf if the asprintf succeeds
171 2011-06-19 01:25:25 <sipa> ronde haakjes, accolades
172 2011-06-19 01:25:32 <ius> Nein
173 2011-06-19 01:25:38 <ius> That'd be () and {}
174 2011-06-19 01:25:51 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik * r385e23fa3a14 pushpool/util.c: applog: correct asprintf() return value check http://tinyurl.com/6lebwzo
175 2011-06-19 01:25:51 <sipa> yes?
176 2011-06-19 01:26:09 <sipa> ius: what are you talking about then?
177 2011-06-19 01:26:12 <ius> These fellows: <>
178 2011-06-19 01:26:17 <sipa> ow
179 2011-06-19 01:26:22 <sipa> no idea :)
180 2011-06-19 01:26:26 <ius> ;)
181 2011-06-19 01:26:40 <sipa> hoekige haakjes? :D
182 2011-06-19 01:26:40 <jgarzik> sipa: want me to go ahead and fix warning?
183 2011-06-19 01:26:51 <sipa> jgarzik: i don't get the warning
184 2011-06-19 01:26:54 <ius> I'll settle for 'scherp haakje'
185 2011-06-19 01:27:01 karnac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
186 2011-06-19 01:27:18 <jgarzik> sipa: compiler version?
187 2011-06-19 01:27:31 Kolky has quit (Quit: Bye bye!)
188 2011-06-19 01:27:34 <ericmock> cocoa front end coming along... http://snapplr.com/wjkk
189 2011-06-19 01:27:46 <ericmock> eta, 1 week ;-)
190 2011-06-19 01:28:55 <sipa> jgarzik: gcc 4.4.3
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192 2011-06-19 01:29:12 <sipa> jgarzik: anyway, the false should be a NULL
193 2011-06-19 01:29:13 <jgarzik> sipa: yeah, that's an older compiler. I'm on 4.5.x
194 2011-06-19 01:29:18 <ius> jgarzik: Thanks. And sorry for submitting a bad fix
195 2011-06-19 01:29:26 <sipa> which also explains why it isn't a problem
196 2011-06-19 01:29:32 <jgarzik> yes
197 2011-06-19 01:29:33 <sipa> at runti;e
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201 2011-06-19 01:29:43 <jgarzik> sipa: you will fix, or shall I?
202 2011-06-19 01:30:32 <copumpkin> sipa: you're in #haskell! I was thinking of making a bitcoin implementation in haskell sometime :)
203 2011-06-19 01:30:35 <vragnaroda> ericmock: you're working on a cocoa front end?
204 2011-06-19 01:30:47 <sipa> copumpkin: that's where i learned about bitcoin, actually
205 2011-06-19 01:30:50 <ius> copumpkin: pumpkin :o
206 2011-06-19 01:30:52 <ericmock> vragnaroda: yea
207 2011-06-19 01:30:52 <copumpkin> sipa: cool :)
208 2011-06-19 01:30:55 <copumpkin> oh hi ericmock
209 2011-06-19 01:30:58 <sipa> copumpkin: and roconnor already beat you to it
210 2011-06-19 01:30:59 <copumpkin> hi ius
211 2011-06-19 01:31:04 <copumpkin> sipa: he did?
212 2011-06-19 01:31:07 <copumpkin> cool!
213 2011-06-19 01:31:10 <ericmock> heya copumpkin
214 2011-06-19 01:31:15 <copumpkin> roconnor: yo, where is it?
215 2011-06-19 01:31:16 <copumpkin> :
216 2011-06-19 01:31:17 <copumpkin> :P
217 2011-06-19 01:31:37 <sipa> jgarzik: let me think for a sec
218 2011-06-19 01:31:54 <sipa> copumpkin: his implementation isn't finished yet (and not public either, afaik)
219 2011-06-19 01:31:59 <copumpkin> ah I see
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229 2011-06-19 01:38:23 <devon_hillard> ;;bc, calc 350000
230 2011-06-19 01:38:23 <gribble> Error: "bc," is not a valid command.
231 2011-06-19 01:38:27 <devon_hillard> ;;bc,calc 350000
232 2011-06-19 01:38:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 350000 Khps, given current difficulty of 877226.66666667 , is 17 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes, and 22 seconds
233 2011-06-19 01:38:57 <sipa> jgarzik: i need sleep, if you want to, you can fix it - it should be NULL instead of false to not change the former behaviour
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245 2011-06-19 01:47:38 <ius> Hmm, I'm not familiar with boost, but 31f293128177e0f533 ("Only include certain boost headers if necessary.") seems to have broken the build for me
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247 2011-06-19 01:48:32 <jgarzik> ius: OS version? boost version? pastebin of problem? works here...
248 2011-06-19 01:49:03 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-252-6-23.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
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251 2011-06-19 01:50:16 <roconnor> copumpkin: I've almost done a first pass impelemention
252 2011-06-19 01:50:23 <roconnor> copumpkin: it needs to be refactored now
253 2011-06-19 01:50:49 <ericmock> oh, copumpkin will do more than refactor, he'll cofactor it
254 2011-06-19 01:50:59 <roconnor> copumpkin: however, it is simply a bitcoin valdidating engine at the moment.
255 2011-06-19 01:51:10 <roconnor> validating client
256 2011-06-19 01:51:24 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * raa0c5e8 / src/wallet.cpp :
257 2011-06-19 01:51:24 <CIA-103> bitcoin: CWalletTx::GetAmounts(): pass NULL for CKeyStore*, rather than false
258 2011-06-19 01:51:24 <CIA-103> bitcoin: to fix warning. - http://bit.ly/lmowVc
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264 2011-06-19 01:59:30 <ius> jgarzik: boost 1.46.1 - boost::filesystem::create_directory and friends (from <boost/filesystem/operations.hpp>) are required on some source files
265 2011-06-19 01:59:52 <ius> Alternatively, it seems <boost/filesystem.hpp> was used before, which pulls the whole shebang in, that's why it worked..
266 2011-06-19 02:01:38 <lfm> t6hats odd creatdir is in operations instead of filesystem
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268 2011-06-19 02:02:33 <jgarzik> ius: wanna submit a pull request? :)
269 2011-06-19 02:02:46 <ius> lfm: That's what I said.. I think?
270 2011-06-19 02:03:09 <lfm> ius ya just saying it is odd
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272 2011-06-19 02:03:54 <ius> Sure if I knew the best approach. Haven't resolved everything, but it's starting to look like http://pastie.org/2089642
273 2011-06-19 02:04:45 <ius> Not familiar with boost, 31f293128177e0f53331ddb3f1 was meant to 'only include certain headers if necessary'
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275 2011-06-19 02:05:18 <jgarzik> ius: none of us are boost experts either :)
276 2011-06-19 02:05:22 <jgarzik> ius: your patch looks sane
277 2011-06-19 02:05:23 <ius> Instead of those two separate includes from filesystem, we might as well pull all of filesystem
278 2011-06-19 02:05:33 <jgarzik> operations.hpp exists on fedora, so I'm happy
279 2011-06-19 02:05:52 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: wallet import/export (if a delete option with big warnings is added, anyways) is an additional step to helping people secure their wallets though, was my point
280 2011-06-19 02:06:09 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #58: STILL FAILING in 10 min: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/58/
281 2011-06-19 02:06:09 <BlueMattBot> jgarzik: CWalletTx::GetAmounts(): pass NULL for CKeyStore*, rather than false
282 2011-06-19 02:06:14 <jrmithdobbs> sorry got dragged off to dinner mid thought earlier ;P
283 2011-06-19 02:06:21 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: I don't see any reason we should not merge wallet import/export
284 2011-06-19 02:06:42 <ius> jgarzik: For reference, what boost ver is fedora on?
285 2011-06-19 02:07:36 <jgarzik> ius: 1.44 in F14, 1.46 in F16
286 2011-06-19 02:07:39 <jgarzik> ius: 1.44 in F14, 1.46 in F15
287 2011-06-19 02:07:57 T_X has joined
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289 2011-06-19 02:09:05 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: well, it'll need to be rebased on walletclass
290 2011-06-19 02:09:12 <jgarzik> yes
291 2011-06-19 02:09:21 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: i was more saying that it's as, if not more, important than wallet encryption
292 2011-06-19 02:09:40 <jrmithdobbs> i know there's no objection to the general concept of it ;P
293 2011-06-19 02:10:26 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: opinion noted but largely irrelevant, as neither crypto nor import/export is a blocker for the other
294 2011-06-19 02:10:41 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: I think we will merge both as soon as either is ready
295 2011-06-19 02:11:22 <jrmithdobbs> k
296 2011-06-19 02:12:22 <lfm> do you know details of crypto? what algo is planned?
297 2011-06-19 02:12:50 <phantomcircuit> im guessing it'll be AES 256
298 2011-06-19 02:12:54 <phantomcircuit> which would be lulzy
299 2011-06-19 02:13:06 TheZimm has quit (Quit: When will we learn?)
300 2011-06-19 02:14:02 <lfm> is that in libssl?
301 2011-06-19 02:14:17 RobboNZ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
302 2011-06-19 02:14:24 <jgarzik> lfm, phantomcircuit: summary of wallet cryhpto details at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/232
303 2011-06-19 02:14:29 <jgarzik> lfm: yes
304 2011-06-19 02:14:40 TheZimm has joined
305 2011-06-19 02:14:51 <jgarzik> *crypto
306 2011-06-19 02:15:04 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, do not use AES 256, it is less secure than AES128 due to a shitty key schedule
307 2011-06-19 02:15:09 <copumpkin> roconnor: ah I see
308 2011-06-19 02:15:21 <copumpkin> roconnor: will it be public? are you interested in collaboration?
309 2011-06-19 02:15:48 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i can provide references if you'd like
310 2011-06-19 02:15:58 <JFK911> use clipper/skipjack please
311 2011-06-19 02:16:03 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: comments w/ refs in pull request please
312 2011-06-19 02:16:04 <phantomcircuit> rofl
313 2011-06-19 02:16:09 <JFK911> skipjack seems secure
314 2011-06-19 02:16:18 <JFK911> they never escrowed any keys iirc
315 2011-06-19 02:16:55 sacarlson has joined
316 2011-06-19 02:18:20 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/another_new_aes.html
317 2011-06-19 02:18:31 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: is a good summary (I agree comments need to go on the pull request)
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321 2011-06-19 02:20:41 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: actually he's using 1000 rounds so it's fine
322 2011-06-19 02:20:48 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * ref9bab6a5c9c supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/nav-bg-reverse.gif: OTCWebsite: add missing style bg img http://tinyurl.com/6xu83xf
323 2011-06-19 02:21:06 <jrmithdobbs> the "almost" feasible attacks are at 11 rounds, most implementations use 14 rounds
324 2011-06-19 02:21:23 <roconnor> copumpkin: probably in a few week. I might be intrested in collaboration; I don't know I don't have too much experience collaborating on code.
325 2011-06-19 02:21:27 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, the rate at which aes 256 attacks have been getting better is troubling even at 1000 rounds...
326 2011-06-19 02:21:47 <copumpkin> roconnor: ah okay, I might get started on something of my own in the mean time then :) you should set up a github account at some point though
327 2011-06-19 02:21:52 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: fair
328 2011-06-19 02:21:54 <copumpkin> or a public darcs service like darcsden
329 2011-06-19 02:22:05 <roconnor> ya I was thinking of that
330 2011-06-19 02:22:08 IO- has joined
331 2011-06-19 02:22:14 <roconnor> almost everything is crammed into one file
332 2011-06-19 02:22:23 <roconnor> now I want to tease it out into proper modules
333 2011-06-19 02:22:30 <roconnor> maybe do some information hiding while I'm at it.
334 2011-06-19 02:22:37 <copumpkin> what are you using for the ecdsa?
335 2011-06-19 02:22:42 <copumpkin> and sha256 for that matter
336 2011-06-19 02:22:44 <copumpkin> (libraries)
337 2011-06-19 02:23:03 <roconnor> I wrote a sha256 library 4 years ago. I'm using a modified version of that
338 2011-06-19 02:23:08 <copumpkin> ah
339 2011-06-19 02:23:09 <roconnor> I wrote my own ecdsa library
340 2011-06-19 02:23:14 <copumpkin> oh nice :)
341 2011-06-19 02:23:36 <roconnor> ... then I rewrite it to use projective coordinates :D
342 2011-06-19 02:23:53 <copumpkin> well, on the math front you're probably ahead of most people :)
343 2011-06-19 02:24:02 Taveren93HGK has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
344 2011-06-19 02:24:48 <jrmithdobbs> ya but why not contribute that effort to improving openssl's implementation (or another similarly widely used implementation)
345 2011-06-19 02:24:52 <phantomcircuit> roconnor, the odds that you implemented ecdsa perfectly are pretty low
346 2011-06-19 02:24:59 <copumpkin> jrmithdobbs: we're both haskell nuts
347 2011-06-19 02:25:07 <roconnor> phantomcircuit: it's not that hard
348 2011-06-19 02:25:10 <copumpkin> nuff said, I'd hope :P
349 2011-06-19 02:25:25 <roconnor> the odds that I've impelemented bitcoin properly are pretty low though =)
350 2011-06-19 02:25:27 <phantomcircuit> roconnor, lol it's crypto code, as a rule your odds of implementing it properly yourself are in the low single digits
351 2011-06-19 02:25:31 <copumpkin> most bad implementations are because of timing, and timing isn't a problem here
352 2011-06-19 02:25:36 <jrmithdobbs> copumpkin: i'd still think hooking into a more common c lib would be a better idea
353 2011-06-19 02:25:50 <jrmithdobbs> just for code review comfort
354 2011-06-19 02:26:04 <phantomcircuit> roconnor, dont take it as a slight, it's true for anybody doing crypto code, even people doing systems on top of primatives
355 2011-06-19 02:26:10 wasabi1 has joined
356 2011-06-19 02:26:21 <roconnor> phantomcircuit: I think you are mistaking implementing crypto yourself with making your own cryto system.
357 2011-06-19 02:26:29 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: the main issues non-hardcore implementations overlook are just timing and side channel attacks
358 2011-06-19 02:26:35 <copumpkin> implementing a spec is fairly straightforward usually
359 2011-06-19 02:26:40 <copumpkin> especially something like DSA
360 2011-06-19 02:26:43 <copumpkin> or ECDSA
361 2011-06-19 02:26:51 nukelies-com has joined
362 2011-06-19 02:26:53 <copumpkin> it's either right or it isn't
363 2011-06-19 02:26:58 <phantomcircuit> copumpkin, that's what they all say ;)
364 2011-06-19 02:27:01 <copumpkin> whether it leaks side channel information like sieve is another question
365 2011-06-19 02:27:05 <roconnor> oh, ya, if you mean side channel attack, then maybe; but OTOH, I'm only using it to verify signatures at the momement, so I have no secrets to keep secret.
366 2011-06-19 02:27:13 <copumpkin> yeah, exactly
367 2011-06-19 02:28:03 <copumpkin> phantomcircuit: I dunno, I don't think it's a big issue here :) watch roconnor's kitten get lost though, now that I've said that
368 2011-06-19 02:28:07 <lfm> roconnor: if your implementation is good then get it included in libssl or something
369 2011-06-19 02:28:19 <copumpkin> lfm: they like haskell code? :P
370 2011-06-19 02:28:19 <jrmithdobbs> lfm: it's in haskell
371 2011-06-19 02:28:26 <roconnor> lfm: I don't think libssl is going to depend on the haskell runtime anytime soon.
372 2011-06-19 02:28:30 <copumpkin> only mad haskellers like haskell code
373 2011-06-19 02:28:41 <roconnor> OTOH, I have no buffer overflows :D
374 2011-06-19 02:28:44 ewal_ has joined
375 2011-06-19 02:28:48 <lfm> well there's your answer then
376 2011-06-19 02:29:26 <jrmithdobbs> roconnor: openssl doesn't exactly have a huge long record of buffer overflows either ... other fun attacks yes
377 2011-06-19 02:29:40 <jrmithdobbs> (though really still not that many)
378 2011-06-19 02:29:48 <jrmithdobbs> just sayin
379 2011-06-19 02:29:57 <roconnor> that's good to hear
380 2011-06-19 02:30:52 <roconnor> anyhow I need to go to bed many hours ago
381 2011-06-19 02:30:57 <roconnor> l8r
382 2011-06-19 02:31:14 <copumpkin> ciao
383 2011-06-19 02:33:18 Pinion has joined
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388 2011-06-19 02:39:56 <ericmock> Haskellers in the Rathskeller?
389 2011-06-19 02:40:15 <sacarlson> I was reading https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Alternative_Chains and was thinking one of these might be what I want to try playing with. I was going to try a linked chain that uses bitcoin transactions of zero of .01 with added needed fee to validate value transactions on another chain
390 2011-06-19 02:41:06 trentzb has left ()
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392 2011-06-19 02:42:54 <sacarlson> so can I setup a zero transaction on bitcoin as long as I provide a fee to get into the blockchain?
393 2011-06-19 02:43:49 <sacarlson> oh and I guess the min fee now would be .001 btc not .01
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397 2011-06-19 02:46:23 <luke-jr> sacarlson: it would be .0005 BTC
398 2011-06-19 02:46:43 <luke-jr> sacarlson: and Eligius will charge like 0.01048576 BTC per 512 bytes, if you do it :P
399 2011-06-19 02:46:57 <sacarlson> luke-jr: oh ok so I can setup a zero transaction and pay .0005 btc to get it in
400 2011-06-19 02:47:17 <luke-jr> sacarlson: Eligius is hostile to data storage abuses :P
401 2011-06-19 02:47:22 oxba has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
402 2011-06-19 02:47:59 <sacarlson> luke-jr: I don't think the payload would be very big just a normal transaction as far as bitcoin would see it
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404 2011-06-19 02:48:32 <luke-jr> sacarlson: regardless, if Eligius detects you're using it for mere data storage, it will charge more
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407 2011-06-19 02:49:45 <sacarlson> luke-jr: so would a zero transaction be more than 512 bytes?
408 2011-06-19 02:49:47 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
409 2011-06-19 02:50:00 <luke-jr> not likely
410 2011-06-19 02:50:13 <vragnaroda> luke-jr: hostile? what will it do?
411 2011-06-19 02:50:13 <luke-jr> sacarlson: normally Eligius charges 0.00004096 BTC per 512 bytes
412 2011-06-19 02:50:16 echelon has joined
413 2011-06-19 02:50:20 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: require a larger fee :p
414 2011-06-19 02:50:20 JRWR has joined
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416 2011-06-19 02:50:21 JRWR has joined
417 2011-06-19 02:50:37 <cuddlefish> vragnaroda: It sends message MALLET
418 2011-06-19 02:50:45 Guest1598725452 is now known as Castor_
419 2011-06-19 02:50:59 <cuddlefish> vragnaroda: triggers an automated mallet to come out of your CD tray and inflict cranial injury on the user
420 2011-06-19 02:51:00 <sacarlson> luke-jr: I assume if the fee's aren't there for eligius it will just take longer to transact until a minner accepts it?
421 2011-06-19 02:51:35 <luke-jr> sacarlson: assuming another miner tolerates it
422 2011-06-19 02:51:44 <vragnaroda> luke-jr: requiring a larger fee doesn't seem hostile to me. you should fix that :)
423 2011-06-19 02:52:05 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: ..
424 2011-06-19 02:52:15 <luke-jr> it's as hostile as a pool can reasonably be
425 2011-06-19 02:52:20 <cuddlefish> luke-jr: automated DDoS!
426 2011-06-19 02:52:27 <luke-jr> â¦
427 2011-06-19 02:52:36 <vragnaroda> hostility isn't reasonable!
428 2011-06-19 02:52:37 <cuddlefish> luke-jr: HOW DARE YOU BROADCAST THAT TRANSACTION
429 2011-06-19 02:53:15 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
430 2011-06-19 02:54:44 <sacarlson> luke-jr: well It's supply and demand if people don't want to pay for security there are cheaper but less secure chains available
431 2011-06-19 02:54:44 B0g4r7 has joined
432 2011-06-19 02:55:12 <nukelies-com> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkkrFvwgFJ8&t=0m45s
433 2011-06-19 02:55:23 <nukelies-com> sorry wrong window
434 2011-06-19 02:55:56 <lfm> we should just charge 100btc per transaction and get it over with
435 2011-06-19 02:56:52 <sacarlson> lfm: well if that happend I guess 100btc would be worth .0001USD
436 2011-06-19 02:57:17 <lfm> naw, it would just get all the piddly little txn out of the block chain
437 2011-06-19 02:57:17 <sacarlson> lfm: and it would still balance out
438 2011-06-19 02:57:39 JRWR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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442 2011-06-19 02:58:53 vragnaroda has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
443 2011-06-19 02:59:46 <lfm> from now on my miner will only include txn with fees of 100btc or more
444 2011-06-19 03:00:05 Kolky has joined
445 2011-06-19 03:00:06 <luke-jr> jerk
446 2011-06-19 03:00:13 vragnaroda has joined
447 2011-06-19 03:00:20 airfox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
448 2011-06-19 03:00:22 <lfm> hu? its no different from what you're doing?
449 2011-06-19 03:01:33 airfox has joined
450 2011-06-19 03:03:22 JRWR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
451 2011-06-19 03:03:33 <lfm> like the guy that asked his date "Would you sleep with me for $1 million?" She said she would probably take him up on that so then he asked would she do it for $50 and she slapped him and said "What do you think I am?" He said, we have already established that, now we are just haggling over the price.
452 2011-06-19 03:03:50 JRWR has joined
453 2011-06-19 03:06:39 <sacarlson> I had also thought of just using the blocks created in bitcoins as timestamps for another chain so no transactions would be needed
454 2011-06-19 03:09:16 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
455 2011-06-19 03:10:36 <jgarzik> anybody awake, who knows I2P? I'm curious to know if I2P guarantees that (a) all packets are the same size, and (b) all packets are sent at highly regular intervals? I think the answer is "no" to both, but I want to be sure.
456 2011-06-19 03:11:33 <lfm> how could it guarantee (b) if it runs on the internet
457 2011-06-19 03:12:52 earthmeLon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
458 2011-06-19 03:13:26 <jgarzik> lfm: key word "sent" not "received"
459 2011-06-19 03:13:37 <lfm> if you're thinking of counter measures to traffic analysis then you cant ever use the full bandwith unless you are running filler data full out all the time
460 2011-06-19 03:13:44 <sacarlson> lfm: I"m not sure I guess the minners in this case wait for a transaction to come from bitcoin when they get it then they start working from that block hash a new block in the new chain. first minner to come up with the number from the valid bitcoin number wins
461 2011-06-19 03:13:57 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
462 2011-06-19 03:14:03 <jgarzik> lfm: that's what I'm wondering -- does I2P automatically provide said filler data and regularized sent-packet timings?
463 2011-06-19 03:14:17 brunner has joined
464 2011-06-19 03:14:35 <lfm> jgarzik: it would seem very wastful
465 2011-06-19 03:14:57 <jgarzik> lfm: <shrug> less wasteful == easy protocol fingerprinting, regardless of encryption
466 2011-06-19 03:15:28 <jrmithdobbs> what's wrong with protocol fingerprinting?
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471 2011-06-19 03:16:05 <lfm> hmm ya but you still shouldnt be able to tell a 0.01btc txn from a 100,000.00 btc txn
472 2011-06-19 03:16:11 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: if you are trying to be anonymous, you better not use the bitcoin P2P protocol, which can be easily detected
473 2011-06-19 03:16:29 brunner has joined
474 2011-06-19 03:17:07 <jgarzik> lfm: if you are sending a transaction, and the government has a bunch of sampling nodes around the bitcoin network, the government can probably figure out who sent a bitcoin transaction
475 2011-06-19 03:17:48 <lfm> jgarzik: yup, they can prolly figure it out pretty easy without even seeing the i2p traffic at all
476 2011-06-19 03:17:56 <jgarzik> yep
477 2011-06-19 03:18:09 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: they wouldn't even need "a bunch"
478 2011-06-19 03:19:01 <lfm> like 3 or 4 might be enuf to "triangulate
479 2011-06-19 03:19:19 <jrmithdobbs> i think 2 would be enough with modified clients
480 2011-06-19 03:19:22 <sacarlson> lfm: wouldn't just a vpn be good enuf to evade the gov from at least know your physical location?
481 2011-06-19 03:19:44 <luke-jr> fwiw, Python's "decimal" module SUCKS
482 2011-06-19 03:19:51 <luke-jr> I mean, more than just because it's Decimal
483 2011-06-19 03:19:52 <lfm> not hard to see where a vpn goes
484 2011-06-19 03:19:56 <vragnaroda> luke-jr: fwiw, Python sucks
485 2011-06-19 03:19:56 <jrmithdobbs> s/"decimal" module //
486 2011-06-19 03:20:00 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: that too
487 2011-06-19 03:20:04 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: but 'decimal' is SLOW
488 2011-06-19 03:20:11 inktri has joined
489 2011-06-19 03:20:19 <sacarlson> lfm: oh ok
490 2011-06-19 03:20:19 <jrmithdobbs> s/but 'decimal'/python
491 2011-06-19 03:20:21 glassresistor has joined
492 2011-06-19 03:20:53 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: I wrote a competing module (with support for like 30 radices) that runs significantly faster in pure Python
493 2011-06-19 03:20:54 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
494 2011-06-19 03:21:06 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: i don't doubt it
495 2011-06-19 03:21:20 <luke-jr> and it's more accurate too
496 2011-06-19 03:21:29 <luke-jr> 'decimal' rounds at some point
497 2011-06-19 03:21:41 <luke-jr> 'anynumber' has infinite resolution :p
498 2011-06-19 03:21:44 <lfm> binary rounds too
499 2011-06-19 03:22:01 <luke-jr> lfm: binary isn't a Python module
500 2011-06-19 03:22:22 <lfm> any computer arithmetic rounds one way or another
501 2011-06-19 03:22:26 RobboNZ has joined
502 2011-06-19 03:22:39 <luke-jr> lfm: depends on the input
503 2011-06-19 03:22:42 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
504 2011-06-19 03:23:11 <lfm> its basic numerical analysis
505 2011-06-19 03:30:49 <lfm> cobol and pl/1 had builtin fixed point fractioal arithmetic (people called it decimal but it wasnt always implemented as decimal)
506 2011-06-19 03:31:36 <vragnaroda> i don't know anything about those languages, but ada does that, too
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510 2011-06-19 03:39:24 <Kireji> ;;bc,mtgox
511 2011-06-19 03:39:25 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":18.5,"low":15.052,"vol":44936,"buy":17.699,"sell":17.7,"last":17.7}}
512 2011-06-19 03:40:44 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * ree1f79b18684 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/somefunctions.php: OTCWebsite: grab gox ticker with cron, and pull data from local file due to ssl bug in php version, but also should improve performance http://tinyurl.com/654fgxg
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519 2011-06-19 03:51:31 <citiz3n> how many decimal places does the latest client allow you to see
520 2011-06-19 03:51:33 <citiz3n> and send?
521 2011-06-19 03:54:20 <citiz3n> also, are the "supernodes" working yet?
522 2011-06-19 03:54:30 <citiz3n> will they upload the blockchain faster than regular nodes
523 2011-06-19 03:54:44 <citiz3n> even using nodes over lan - it takes FOREVER to download the blockchain
524 2011-06-19 03:54:47 <vragnaroda> citiz3n: my client is showing my current balance to the 8th decimal place (ends in .10374795)
525 2011-06-19 03:55:10 <citiz3n> seems better to sneakernet the block files, but it would be nice to be able to download them faster
526 2011-06-19 03:55:35 <cuddlefish> citiz3n: the sourceforge page has nighlty blockchain dummps
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531 2011-06-19 04:11:22 <wasabi1> So... all these OpenCL SHA256 kernel's I've seen...
532 2011-06-19 04:11:36 <wasabi1> They seem to me to return all the hashes...
533 2011-06-19 04:13:18 <wasabi1> Eh. No they don't. Nevermind. So these programs aren't self-parallized, are they
534 2011-06-19 04:13:49 <citiz3n> my client still seems to only show .xx places behind the decimal
535 2011-06-19 04:17:32 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
536 2011-06-19 04:17:45 <sacarlson> citiz3n: what's are supernodes ?
537 2011-06-19 04:18:02 <citiz3n> in the 1st bitcoin tv video
538 2011-06-19 04:18:16 <citiz3n> they were interviewing the guys developing bitcoin software in a lab
539 2011-06-19 04:18:25 <sacarlson> citiz3n: never saw it
540 2011-06-19 04:18:28 <citiz3n> and supposedly they were going to make supernodes for people to connect to that would help speed the network up
541 2011-06-19 04:20:08 mmoya has joined
542 2011-06-19 04:20:28 <JRWR> citiz3n: we need another IRC that the client can fall back on
543 2011-06-19 04:20:42 <JRWR> one that runs even on port 443/80
544 2011-06-19 04:22:17 <JRWR> I have a idea, how about a web based service that takes in the IP/Detected IP and lists them on a page for the client to download
545 2011-06-19 04:22:32 <sacarlson> citiz3n: I just keep a backup copy on my local server of the blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat files of each of the chains I support, I guess I could also seed a torrent file of my backups to help make some people start faster
546 2011-06-19 04:22:33 <JRWR> I just made a system for that for a new game client that needed a master server
547 2011-06-19 04:22:51 <ZOP> JRWR: if you can't connect out to an irc server, you probably won't be able to connect out on 8332 either.....
548 2011-06-19 04:24:01 <JRWR> maybe not
549 2011-06-19 04:24:07 <JRWR> some ISPs filter IRC
550 2011-06-19 04:24:12 <JRWR> and not a random port
551 2011-06-19 04:24:39 <JRWR> tho TOR can help with that, maybe a mode for tor to connect to the block chain over tor
552 2011-06-19 04:24:44 <sacarlson> jrwr: the fall back already has like 330 base addresses
553 2011-06-19 04:25:04 <JRWR> I thought about setting up a hidden server for people to use as a base for their client
554 2011-06-19 04:25:17 <citiz3n> im just wondering what makes the block transfer so slow with the client
555 2011-06-19 04:25:27 <citiz3n> it must be something in the code throttling it
556 2011-06-19 04:25:39 <citiz3n> over gigabit lan it should be downloaded in seconds
557 2011-06-19 04:25:45 <citiz3n> not hours
558 2011-06-19 04:25:46 nocreativenick1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
559 2011-06-19 04:26:04 <sacarlson> citiz3n: yes it's taken me sometime over 10 hours to download a fresh copy that's why I now keep a copy
560 2011-06-19 04:26:06 <jgarzik> JRWR: if IRC is not working for you, pass -dnsseed
561 2011-06-19 04:26:19 nocreativenick1 has joined
562 2011-06-19 04:26:34 <citiz3n> hey jgarzik
563 2011-06-19 04:26:54 <citiz3n> do you know what functions regulate the speed of block transfer from one client to another?
564 2011-06-19 04:27:49 <citiz3n> i noticed sometimes it flies and does hundreds of blocks in a couple seconds, and other times it just sits there and sits there and goes REALLY slow
565 2011-06-19 04:27:51 <citiz3n> and this is all over lan :(
566 2011-06-19 04:28:48 <sacarlson> citiz3n: I never looked into it but I was also unhappy when I first started that I had to give up 30kb/s of my bandwidth to others getting it from me
567 2011-06-19 04:29:15 <citiz3n> it would be really cool to be able to set how much bandwidth you'd like to allocate for it
568 2011-06-19 04:29:21 <jgarzik> citiz3n: we know there's a problem in there, unfortunately
569 2011-06-19 04:29:40 <jgarzik> citiz3n: anti-DoS flooding code bumps up against huge blockchain downloads.
570 2011-06-19 04:29:40 <sacarlson> citiz3n: remind you we are not all rich with Internet bandwidth like you might be
571 2011-06-19 04:29:46 <jgarzik> citiz3n: working on a fix
572 2011-06-19 04:30:02 <citiz3n> cool
573 2011-06-19 04:30:28 IoWn3rU has quit (Quit: Leaving)
574 2011-06-19 04:30:35 <citiz3n> in the future i could see dedicated servers up there to spit out blocks REALLY quick for new people
575 2011-06-19 04:30:58 <citiz3n> cutting down on that block download time would really make the bitcoin experience better for newbies
576 2011-06-19 04:31:11 <citiz3n> id love to be able to transfer them over lan too
577 2011-06-19 04:31:13 <citiz3n> :D
578 2011-06-19 04:31:18 <jgarzik> in the future, normal people will use SPV clients like bitcoinj, and only pros will use the Satoshi Client
579 2011-06-19 04:31:35 <jgarzik> normal people won't be able to handle the network, CPU and disk traffic
580 2011-06-19 04:31:45 <sacarlson> citiz3n: well at least share the bandwidth the newbee's uses with other newbee's like with torrent would be all that's needed
581 2011-06-19 04:31:53 theHunted121 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
582 2011-06-19 04:32:01 <citiz3n> i don't throttle my bitcoin bandwidth at all
583 2011-06-19 04:32:05 <citiz3n> and my client is running all the time
584 2011-06-19 04:32:26 <sacarlson> citiz3n: I transfer most of those files above over lan not Internet
585 2011-06-19 04:32:38 <citiz3n> last question jgarzik, about those smaller fractions of coins
586 2011-06-19 04:32:44 <citiz3n> i thought the new client would show them?
587 2011-06-19 04:32:54 <citiz3n> my one wallet still shows 188.04 for example
588 2011-06-19 04:33:15 <citiz3n> im sure there are smaller coins in there, but i can't see them and how can i send them when i don't know what they are?
589 2011-06-19 04:33:18 <sacarlson> citiz3n: I see them with bitcoind and also in my exchange goes down to .0001
590 2011-06-19 04:33:20 <citiz3n> im organizing my wallets a bit tonight
591 2011-06-19 04:33:21 <jgarzik> citiz3n: it shows them for me. it shows minimum necessary
592 2011-06-19 04:33:33 <JRWR> question, what are the files that are the "blockchain" that is saved by the daemon
593 2011-06-19 04:33:44 <jgarzik> JRWR: blk*.dat
594 2011-06-19 04:33:49 <JRWR> ok
595 2011-06-19 04:34:08 <citiz3n> what does the index do?
596 2011-06-19 04:34:27 <citiz3n> ive been sneaking the block and the block index file over to create new wallets
597 2011-06-19 04:34:40 <citiz3n> just curious what the difference is
598 2011-06-19 04:34:46 T_X1 has joined
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600 2011-06-19 04:35:59 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
601 2011-06-19 04:35:59 <jgarzik> citiz3n: indexes the block chain :)
602 2011-06-19 04:36:27 airfox has joined
603 2011-06-19 04:36:27 <citiz3n> yeah this stuff is beyond my comprehension right now
604 2011-06-19 04:36:33 <citiz3n> i was thinking earlier today that i should really learn it :P
605 2011-06-19 04:36:38 <sacarlson> citiz3n: your question (11:32:34 AM) try bitcoind getinfo is should show you down to 8 dec places
606 2011-06-19 04:41:39 Faraday has joined
607 2011-06-19 04:42:22 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: I'm making a fallback node right now, should be veery nice
608 2011-06-19 04:42:40 tylerknowsthis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
609 2011-06-19 04:43:36 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: FWIW we need DNS seeds more than we need fallback nodes
610 2011-06-19 04:43:56 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: how do I make one of those?
611 2011-06-19 04:44:07 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: someone trusted, with stable service, sampling nodes for uptime and returning them via a DNS server A record
612 2011-06-19 04:44:34 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: if you write a daemon that does that, I'll host it
613 2011-06-19 04:44:58 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: on the list. I'll probably use tinydns (djbdns) for the server, rather than write my own.
614 2011-06-19 04:45:09 <jgarzik> tinydns takes a simple flat file as input
615 2011-06-19 04:45:23 <cuddlefish> Ah, I see.
616 2011-06-19 04:45:57 <cuddlefish> that's a nice enough daemon I'll probably write one myself :P
617 2011-06-19 04:46:43 <cuddlefish> Hey, the p2p port is 8332, right?
618 2011-06-19 04:46:47 <jgarzik> anything compliant with DNS RFCs work :)
619 2011-06-19 04:46:50 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: no, that's rpc
620 2011-06-19 04:46:53 <cuddlefish> Aha!
621 2011-06-19 04:47:47 <jgarzik> the only requirement of a DNS seed is to return A records listing addresses that support incoming connections on port 8333
622 2011-06-19 04:48:01 <jgarzik> it can be a static list... but that's not very helpful to the network
623 2011-06-19 04:48:29 <cuddlefish> okay. Why DNS?
624 2011-06-19 04:48:31 <jgarzik> the two current DNS seeds (vladimir's, mine) simply return a list of fallback nodes
625 2011-06-19 04:48:40 <lfm> jgarzik: not neccessarily all of them, a sampleing of them like 8 or 32 should be ok?
626 2011-06-19 04:48:51 nefario has joined
627 2011-06-19 04:48:54 <jgarzik> lfm: yes
628 2011-06-19 04:49:27 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: quick efficient and works
629 2011-06-19 04:50:04 <jgarzik> remember this is bootstrapping and nothing more. people tend to overthink it, forgetting that peer exchange is the primary method of obtaining addresses
630 2011-06-19 04:50:17 <kermit> DNS seeding wouldnt be any more p2p than irc seeding.. a list of hosts needs to be included when transferring the program.
631 2011-06-19 04:50:48 <jgarzik> DNS is not P2P
632 2011-06-19 04:52:02 <kermit> yes that was my point
633 2011-06-19 04:53:28 <jgarzik> a list of hosts is built into the client
634 2011-06-19 04:53:38 IO- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
635 2011-06-19 04:54:07 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: Oh, also, how the frak do I set maxconnections
636 2011-06-19 04:54:25 <cuddlefish> I'm -maxconnections=500, but it's holding out at 32
637 2011-06-19 04:54:58 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: max outbound limit is hardcoded inside client
638 2011-06-19 04:55:05 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: inbound.
639 2011-06-19 04:55:18 <cuddlefish> ah, there we go. looks like I just hadn't found any more nodes
640 2011-06-19 04:55:20 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: -maxconnections controls that, indeed
641 2011-06-19 04:55:23 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: yep
642 2011-06-19 04:55:33 * cuddlefish rings the User Error bell
643 2011-06-19 04:56:45 IO- has joined
644 2011-06-19 04:57:21 SerajewelKS has joined
645 2011-06-19 04:57:37 <SerajewelKS> hey, quick question. is it normal for bitcoind to be using more RAM than a minecraft server process?
646 2011-06-19 04:59:11 <jrmithdobbs> depneds on use
647 2011-06-19 04:59:14 <jrmithdobbs> infeasible? no
648 2011-06-19 05:00:16 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
649 2011-06-19 05:00:18 <SerajewelKS> sitting mostly idle for about a week?
650 2011-06-19 05:00:20 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: irc is still primary method for determining "freshness" of peers
651 2011-06-19 05:00:54 <SerajewelKS> it seems like bitcoind is keeping a lot of shit in RAM that it doesn't need to
652 2011-06-19 05:00:58 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: yes... because it's the compiled in default
653 2011-06-19 05:01:04 <jgarzik> SerajewelKS: patches welcome
654 2011-06-19 05:01:08 <SerajewelKS> or it's leaking, i'm not sure which
655 2011-06-19 05:01:16 <SerajewelKS> ah, the standard cop-out :)
656 2011-06-19 05:01:36 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: the peer selection code is broken, look at the pull gmaxwell closed earlier and the channel logs around the time he closed it
657 2011-06-19 05:01:57 <JRWR> Updated every 6 hours from a active non-firewalled client, http://jrwr.co.cc/bitcoind/
658 2011-06-19 05:02:08 <JRWR> block preseeds as so called
659 2011-06-19 05:02:21 <doublec> SerajewelKS: mine usually sits around 300MB or so
660 2011-06-19 05:02:36 <jgarzik> I would -not- recommend downloading the block chain from untrusted parties
661 2011-06-19 05:02:36 <SerajewelKS> doublec: that seems about right
662 2011-06-19 05:02:39 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: basically as is, for outbound connections, the code gets into a state (especially without irc, but even with because of the channel splits) where it will get down to one "desired" peer to connect to :(
663 2011-06-19 05:02:45 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: gmaxwell is working on a solution though
664 2011-06-19 05:02:50 nefario has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
665 2011-06-19 05:03:18 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: yes, peer selection sucks
666 2011-06-19 05:03:26 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: that is orthogonal to bootstrapping
667 2011-06-19 05:03:34 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: also, the send buffer is way too small by default right now with block size growth
668 2011-06-19 05:03:50 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: yes, I just stated as much ~50 lines ago
669 2011-06-19 05:04:02 <SerajewelKS> jgarzik: if i write a patch, it will be a cron job that restarts it every day. i don't have a lot of experience in C++ (owing in part to my strong dislike of the language) nor in the various debugging tools to be very helpful.
670 2011-06-19 05:04:11 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: missed that
671 2011-06-19 05:04:31 <SerajewelKS> it took me long enough to write my "getsinceblock" patch... and that was one rpc command
672 2011-06-19 05:04:35 karnac has joined
673 2011-06-19 05:04:39 <jgarzik> SerajewelKS: it uses a lot of memory, but leaks seem unlikely
674 2011-06-19 05:05:20 Beremat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
675 2011-06-19 05:05:27 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: what's the proposed for solution for he send buffer? or is there one yet?
676 2011-06-19 05:05:38 <jrmithdobbs> just bumping isn't really sustainable
677 2011-06-19 05:06:09 <vragnaroda> SerajewelKS: well, say what you really think about C++
678 2011-06-19 05:06:15 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: none yet. buffering in RAM is criminally stupid, and the current limits are just a hack on top of a hack
679 2011-06-19 05:06:35 <jgarzik> if I had my druthers, it would just sendfile(2) and keep nothing in application heap
680 2011-06-19 05:06:36 <jrmithdobbs> ya
681 2011-06-19 05:06:40 XXARMYXX has joined
682 2011-06-19 05:06:51 <jrmithdobbs> i don't see any easy fix without overhauling like that tbqh
683 2011-06-19 05:06:52 <jgarzik> but it's satoshicode
684 2011-06-19 05:07:16 TheZimm has quit (Quit: When will we learn?)
685 2011-06-19 05:07:43 <SerajewelKS> vragnaroda: my thoughts about C++ are mostly expressed in four-letter words ;)
686 2011-06-19 05:07:46 XXARMYXX has quit (Client Quit)
687 2011-06-19 05:07:54 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: it's a real mess. the code is written to buffer-and-move-on, which is rather DoS prone and just overall resource intensive. the hack stops infinite buffering, but causes problems with large block chain downloads.
688 2011-06-19 05:08:03 <jgarzik> the real fix is to keep a file pointer, and buffer nothing
689 2011-06-19 05:08:06 <jgarzik> but that's quite difficult
690 2011-06-19 05:08:15 <jrmithdobbs> right because of the storage method
691 2011-06-19 05:08:38 <jrmithdobbs> i understand the problem, i was hoping someone had thought of an easier solution :(
692 2011-06-19 05:08:40 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: no, because of the code. the block chain is stored in native format not bdb, so sendfile(2) is straightforward
693 2011-06-19 05:08:51 <jrmithdobbs> oh it is?
694 2011-06-19 05:09:11 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: the fundamental problem is suspending a transfer in the middle of a message, as TCP windows close and open
695 2011-06-19 05:09:53 <jgarzik> blk0001.dat is block+tx in native format, already ready for the wire
696 2011-06-19 05:10:04 <jrmithdobbs> ya just looked at it
697 2011-06-19 05:10:15 <jrmithdobbs> i assumed it was bdb and never looked
698 2011-06-19 05:10:24 <jrmithdobbs> that explains why the index
699 2011-06-19 05:10:28 <jgarzik> blkindex is bdb index of blkNNNN.dat
700 2011-06-19 05:10:30 <jgarzik> yeah
701 2011-06-19 05:10:45 <jrmithdobbs> should really rename that from .dat ;P
702 2011-06-19 05:11:02 * jgarzik will make that top priority :)
703 2011-06-19 05:11:12 <jrmithdobbs> heh
704 2011-06-19 05:13:30 <jrmithdobbs> well shit, why not just mmap the whole thing and and instead of the buffer send pass a pointer to the block on disk for each get ?
705 2011-06-19 05:13:43 <jrmithdobbs> err response to get
706 2011-06-19 05:14:00 bitcoiner has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.17/20110420140830])
707 2011-06-19 05:14:23 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: that's just reinventing sendfile... poorly
708 2011-06-19 05:14:27 RazielZ has joined
709 2011-06-19 05:14:37 <jrmithdobbs> but it's easy to shove into the current code
710 2011-06-19 05:14:40 <jrmithdobbs> easier
711 2011-06-19 05:14:52 <jrmithdobbs> as a stopgap
712 2011-06-19 05:15:17 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: #include <standard response.h>
713 2011-06-19 05:15:23 <jgarzik> patches welcome, if it's so easy :)
714 2011-06-19 05:15:44 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * r3eb8c04d1787 supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/ (createticker.py somefunctions.php): OTCWebsite: use a cache for google exchange rate queries http://tinyurl.com/3ktl8xd
715 2011-06-19 05:16:09 karnac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
716 2011-06-19 05:16:26 karnac has joined
717 2011-06-19 05:18:40 bitcoiner has joined
718 2011-06-19 05:19:29 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: if you'd actually accept such a hack as a stopgap measure i may have some time later this week to look at it more closely
719 2011-06-19 05:19:49 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: stopgaps welcome
720 2011-06-19 05:20:01 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: as I said, current situation is a hack on top of shit satoshi code :)
721 2011-06-19 05:20:04 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: can't get much worse
722 2011-06-19 05:22:41 karnac_ has joined
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724 2011-06-19 05:23:09 blueadept has quit (Quit: Leaving)
725 2011-06-19 05:24:10 Hardcor__ has joined
726 2011-06-19 05:24:43 <Hardcor__> how are bitcoins unique?
727 2011-06-19 05:25:00 <jrmithdobbs> what
728 2011-06-19 05:25:03 <copumpkin> as in, individual bitcoins?
729 2011-06-19 05:25:09 <copumpkin> or the scheme among other crypto cash schemes?
730 2011-06-19 05:25:10 <Hardcor__> yeah
731 2011-06-19 05:25:21 <Hardcor__> like
732 2011-06-19 05:25:30 <Hardcor__> how are they protected from collision
733 2011-06-19 05:25:49 <jrmithdobbs> coins are only created in the coinbase txn
734 2011-06-19 05:26:06 <jrmithdobbs> there is a chain of custody for every txn that tracks back to the originating coinbase
735 2011-06-19 05:26:16 <enki> they don't have identity. bitcoin just keeps track how many bitcoins you have
736 2011-06-19 05:26:24 <enki> but pby your question is better suited for #bitcoin
737 2011-06-19 05:26:27 <enki> this is the dev channel
738 2011-06-19 05:26:52 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
739 2011-06-19 05:27:27 a_meteorite has joined
740 2011-06-19 05:27:30 <Hardcor__> say you have 3 bitcoins
741 2011-06-19 05:27:50 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: is there an end of record demarcation in blk0001.dat or does it just depend on parsing the protocol?
742 2011-06-19 05:28:09 <Hardcor__> bitcoin1 id= 002827 bitcoin2 id = 2876632 bitcoin3 id = 002827
743 2011-06-19 05:28:15 <Hardcor__> wouldnt that be a issue
744 2011-06-19 05:28:38 <enki> bitcoins don't have ids - let's talk in #bitcoin
745 2011-06-19 05:29:00 <Hardcor__> okay
746 2011-06-19 05:29:04 <Hardcor__> pm me?
747 2011-06-19 05:29:07 <Hardcor__> im really confused
748 2011-06-19 05:29:37 karnac_ has quit (Quit: karnac_)
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760 2011-06-19 05:55:11 <cacheson> how fast is it acceptable to poll the mtgox API?
761 2011-06-19 05:55:13 AB3Ham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
762 2011-06-19 05:55:26 <copumpkin> I sent them an email asking that but they haven't responded yet
763 2011-06-19 05:57:01 <cacheson> hm
764 2011-06-19 05:57:26 <cacheson> ideally I should use the websocket API, but I want to get this up and running fast, and improve it later
765 2011-06-19 05:57:36 kratosk has joined
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775 2011-06-19 06:19:30 LightRider is now known as afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|LightRider
776 2011-06-19 06:19:46 <echelon> hi
777 2011-06-19 06:20:01 gsathya has joined
778 2011-06-19 06:20:13 <echelon> you know what would be a nice extended feature?
779 2011-06-19 06:20:23 Hardcor__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
780 2011-06-19 06:20:42 <luke-jr> echelon: /ignore?
781 2011-06-19 06:20:45 <echelon> if you could verify that the coins you claim to have are in your possession by signing something with your address
782 2011-06-19 06:20:53 <vragnaroda> luke-jr: åå
783 2011-06-19 06:21:01 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: wtf?
784 2011-06-19 06:21:13 <luke-jr> echelon: see 'signmessage'
785 2011-06-19 06:21:16 <vragnaroda> luke-jr: å=ha
786 2011-06-19 06:21:26 <echelon> lol, they thought of everything
787 2011-06-19 06:21:58 <luke-jr> echelon: everything except how to get the IRS to accept bitcoins
788 2011-06-19 06:22:00 <echelon> but let the record be known that i arrived at the idea independently :P
789 2011-06-19 06:22:24 <luke-jr> echelon: you didn't arrive at the less obvious practical uses though!
790 2011-06-19 06:22:41 <echelon> like?
791 2011-06-19 06:22:48 <vragnaroda> luke-jr: but they add more ås the funnier something is. åå is a *very* weak lol
792 2011-06-19 06:22:49 <luke-jr> like changing pool settings for eligius
793 2011-06-19 06:23:14 <echelon> i don't know much about pools
794 2011-06-19 06:23:21 <echelon> i don't operate a mining rig
795 2011-06-19 06:24:31 vigilyn has joined
796 2011-06-19 06:29:52 <sturles> All the log-files in .bitcoin/database/ can be deleted, right? Have a client with very thight disk space, and the log files are 1 GiB in total.
797 2011-06-19 06:30:05 <sturles> Keep the two last ones, perhaps?
798 2011-06-19 06:30:06 sabalaba has joined
799 2011-06-19 06:31:46 <luke-jr> sturles: I think it will recreate them
800 2011-06-19 06:31:53 <luke-jr> ie, they're required to actually run it
801 2011-06-19 06:33:13 <gmaxwell> sturles: the debug log can be tossed though, and you can change the code to keep less
802 2011-06-19 06:33:23 <gmaxwell> (I think it keeps a gig by defaut)
803 2011-06-19 06:33:42 <gmaxwell> Dunno why your .bitcoin is so large though.
804 2011-06-19 06:34:07 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: mine is 1.5 GB
805 2011-06-19 06:34:25 <gmaxwell> On one of my normal nodes it 540MB.
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808 2011-06-19 06:36:08 <kfr> Hmm generating funny Bitcoin addresses like 1BitcoinSucksTF9N9Qrate4ZoUzVVdy boils down to SHA256 bruteforcing or something like that, right?
809 2011-06-19 06:36:18 <kfr> So you could write an OpenCL program which crunches that on GPUs?
810 2011-06-19 06:36:35 <kfr> To generate the appropriate key pairs or whatever is behind this
811 2011-06-19 06:36:44 <gmaxwell> kfr: the gpu is turing compete, you could run anything on it.
812 2011-06-19 06:36:53 <gmaxwell> But it's not just SHA256, alas.
813 2011-06-19 06:37:05 <luke-jr> kfr: you need to implement ECDSA too
814 2011-06-19 06:37:09 <gmaxwell> It's ecc public key generation + sha256 + ripemd
815 2011-06-19 06:37:13 <kfr> Oh snap
816 2011-06-19 06:37:26 <kfr> I suppose that still works well for GPUs though?
817 2011-06-19 06:37:34 <copumpkin> I'd expect ECDSA not to
818 2011-06-19 06:37:39 <kfr> No? :[
819 2011-06-19 06:37:40 <copumpkin> sure, they can do it, but not very easily
820 2011-06-19 06:37:40 <gmaxwell> The ecc part requires /only/ a field multiply
821 2011-06-19 06:37:53 <kfr> I mean, they can do it better than CPUs, no?
822 2011-06-19 06:38:01 <gmaxwell> Doubtful.
823 2011-06-19 06:38:05 <kfr> Also, hi copumpkin, we haven't seen spoken in quite some time
824 2011-06-19 06:38:07 <vragnaroda> 02:33 < gmaxwell> Dunno why your .bitcoin is so large though. | 02:33 < luke-jr> gmaxwell: mine is 1.5 GB <-- really?
825 2011-06-19 06:38:09 <copumpkin> not sure what kinds of fields they typically use
826 2011-06-19 06:38:12 <copumpkin> hi kfr :)
827 2011-06-19 06:38:15 <luke-jr> vragnaroda: yes
828 2011-06-19 06:38:16 <copumpkin> I can't remember where I know you from
829 2011-06-19 06:38:23 <kfr> ##re and #haskell
830 2011-06-19 06:38:24 <kfr> Primarily
831 2011-06-19 06:38:27 <copumpkin> ah okay
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833 2011-06-19 06:38:53 <gmaxwell> kfr: the algorithim openssl uses for public key gen would not be fast on gpus.
834 2011-06-19 06:39:03 <kfr> Really? Interesting
835 2011-06-19 06:39:06 <kfr> Why is it slower?
836 2011-06-19 06:39:10 <kfr> Does it have branching diversity?
837 2011-06-19 06:39:18 <gmaxwell> It has tables.
838 2011-06-19 06:39:24 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: ... Is there a faster one on GPUs?
839 2011-06-19 06:39:31 <gmaxwell> Big jucy tables.
840 2011-06-19 06:39:32 <kfr> So? GPUs have very fast memory
841 2011-06-19 06:39:46 <kfr> What's the problem?
842 2011-06-19 06:39:54 <gmaxwell> kfr: with random access to that memory completely slaughtering their performance.
843 2011-06-19 06:40:02 <kfr> Ahhh is caching an issue?
844 2011-06-19 06:40:21 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: is there a faster algo, on GPUs?
845 2011-06-19 06:40:22 <gmaxwell> gpu memory is only big and fast if your access patterns are totally predictable.
846 2011-06-19 06:40:22 <kfr> I know that GPUs have a less sophisticated caching hierarchy than CPUs for most global memory access
847 2011-06-19 06:40:23 <kfr> Right?
848 2011-06-19 06:40:50 <gmaxwell> kfr: worse, you'll make bit swaths of parallel alus wait for memory accesses
849 2011-06-19 06:40:51 <kfr> But uh the texture memory was cached wasn't it?
850 2011-06-19 06:41:02 <kfr> Anyways, how large are these tables?
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855 2011-06-19 06:41:44 <gmaxwell> haven't looked, should be hundreds of k.
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857 2011-06-19 06:42:02 <gmaxwell> cuddlefish: probably not, because the gpus don't have a wide carryless multiply.
858 2011-06-19 06:42:53 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: oooh my
859 2011-06-19 06:43:01 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: and can you seed it?
860 2011-06-19 06:43:26 <gmaxwell> Seed what?
861 2011-06-19 06:43:44 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: seed the keygen
862 2011-06-19 06:43:54 <gmaxwell> There isn't any 'seeding'.
863 2011-06-19 06:43:59 <cuddlefish> okay, dang
864 2011-06-19 06:44:09 <gmaxwell> ECC private keys aren't specially formed like RSA ones.
865 2011-06-19 06:44:22 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: ... then how are they
866 2011-06-19 06:44:39 <cuddlefish> is it just making the corresponding public key?
867 2011-06-19 06:44:49 <gmaxwell> Basically every 256 bit number is a valid private key. (well, almost)
868 2011-06-19 06:44:50 Prof_BiG_BanG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
869 2011-06-19 06:45:01 <gmaxwell> cuddlefish: yes.
870 2011-06-19 06:45:06 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: Woo!
871 2011-06-19 06:45:21 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: step 1. SHA-256 a block
872 2011-06-19 06:45:38 <cuddlefish> step 2. Find the corresponding ECDSA public key
873 2011-06-19 06:46:12 <cuddlefish> step 3. Check if the public key is less than the target
874 2011-06-19 06:46:28 <cuddlefish> step 4. Recieve non-GPUable proof-of-work system!
875 2011-06-19 06:46:45 <gmaxwell> oh there are better non-gpuable systems than that.
876 2011-06-19 06:46:52 <gmaxwell> But gpuable is important.
877 2011-06-19 06:47:05 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: why?
878 2011-06-19 06:47:08 <gmaxwell> Non-gpuable would mean that bitcoin would already be taken over by botnets.
879 2011-06-19 06:47:45 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: mmm...
880 2011-06-19 06:47:51 Hardcor__ has left ("Leaving")
881 2011-06-19 06:48:17 <gmaxwell> also, that above might be gpu resistant it sure as hell wouldn't be big fpga resistant.
882 2011-06-19 06:49:38 <gmaxwell> There have been hashes that used ECC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_curve_only_hash
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884 2011-06-19 06:50:18 <sturles> luke-jr: Normally database log files are only used for transaction loggin and rollbacks. I'll delete the files and see what happens.
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886 2011-06-19 06:52:57 <sturles> The files, except for the last one, disappeare when I quit bitcoind.
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1022 2011-06-19 10:25:35 <digitalirony> I will probably get more relevant answers in here heh, I asked this in another channel, don't wanna seem like im flooding or anything:
1023 2011-06-19 10:25:48 <digitalirony> 5hello, anyone in here that could assist with getting a miner up and working on debian(cuda)? I have been trying to compile rpcminer unsuccesfully. I am a linux admin, and a great coder, so if anyone could spare some time to help it would be great.
1024 2011-06-19 10:26:05 <JFK911> where did you try asking before
1025 2011-06-19 10:26:23 <digitalirony> #bitcoin-mining
1026 2011-06-19 10:26:40 <digitalirony> I keep seeing /serialize.h:629: error: âgetâ was not declared in this scope
1027 2011-06-19 10:26:42 <JFK911> nobodys chatting here but #bitcoin is somewhat active right now.
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1032 2011-06-19 10:43:04 <doublec> digitalirony: a great coder would look at serialize.h, line 629, and see why 'get' wasn't declared
1033 2011-06-19 10:43:22 kreal- has joined
1034 2011-06-19 10:43:29 <digitalirony> err
1035 2011-06-19 10:43:32 <digitalirony> lololol
1036 2011-06-19 10:43:36 Noname has joined
1037 2011-06-19 10:43:37 <digitalirony> * not a great coder
1038 2011-06-19 10:43:42 <digitalirony> durp de durp
1039 2011-06-19 10:43:42 <doublec> :)
1040 2011-06-19 10:43:43 <digitalirony> sorry
1041 2011-06-19 10:43:53 <doublec> digitalirony: have you got a link to the source?
1042 2011-06-19 10:43:53 <digitalirony> I meant that to say, I know linux but not code
1043 2011-06-19 10:43:56 <digitalirony> sure
1044 2011-06-19 10:44:01 Noname is now known as Guest61427
1045 2011-06-19 10:44:06 <digitalirony> http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=2444.0
1046 2011-06-19 10:44:20 <doublec> whatever happened to puddinpop?
1047 2011-06-19 10:44:22 <digitalirony> I do high level stuff like php and such
1048 2011-06-19 10:44:34 <digitalirony> never messed much with c/c++ outside a few muds
1049 2011-06-19 10:45:34 <digitalirony> iunno. I just wanted to start messing with mining. Few people at my work got some of the saphire cards and said they were making some decent money
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1053 2011-06-19 10:48:11 <doublec> digitalirony: looking at it now
1054 2011-06-19 10:48:16 <digitalirony> thanks
1055 2011-06-19 10:49:41 someone0 has joined
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1057 2011-06-19 10:51:16 <doublec> digitalirony: I get a bunch of errors even if I add the namespace required to get 'get' found
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1059 2011-06-19 10:51:40 <digitalirony> :C
1060 2011-06-19 10:51:50 <digitalirony> well, do you know of something I can compile to work on linux lol
1061 2011-06-19 10:51:54 <digitalirony> doesn't have to be that one
1062 2011-06-19 10:52:02 <digitalirony> but I need it to support cuda
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1064 2011-06-19 10:52:11 <digitalirony> and a gui would be nice
1065 2011-06-19 10:52:49 <doublec> oh there we go
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1067 2011-06-19 10:52:59 <doublec> digitalirony: replace get<...>
1068 2011-06-19 10:53:06 <doublec> digitalirony: with boost::tuples::get<...>
1069 2011-06-19 10:53:13 <doublec> in serialize.h
1070 2011-06-19 10:53:33 <digitalirony> sweet
1071 2011-06-19 10:53:41 <digitalirony> ill sed it
1072 2011-06-19 10:53:48 <doublec> digitalirony: or add using namespace boost::tuples;
1073 2011-06-19 10:54:00 <doublec> digitalirony: somewhere at the top of serialize.h, after the tuple includes
1074 2011-06-19 10:54:01 <digitalirony> even better
1075 2011-06-19 10:54:38 <doublec> you'll probably also need to add an include for limits.h to that file
1076 2011-06-19 10:56:06 <digitalirony> sweet
1077 2011-06-19 10:56:13 <digitalirony> they need to update the source then
1078 2011-06-19 10:57:34 <digitalirony> awe
1079 2011-06-19 10:57:39 <digitalirony> nearly did it
1080 2011-06-19 10:57:55 <digitalirony> httprequest.cpp:(.text+0x1f1): undefined reference to `curl_easy_init'
1081 2011-06-19 10:58:02 <digitalirony> know what library that is?
1082 2011-06-19 10:58:35 <ius> curl
1083 2011-06-19 10:59:06 <doublec> digitalirony: libcurl
1084 2011-06-19 10:59:17 <digitalirony> I have libcurl, and it should be in the path
1085 2011-06-19 10:59:18 <digitalirony> hrmm
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1087 2011-06-19 10:59:41 <doublec> digitalirony: do you have libcurl4-openssl-dev?
1088 2011-06-19 10:59:47 <doublec> digitalirony: (assuming ubuntu or similar)
1089 2011-06-19 10:59:53 <ius> Well, you need to explicitly link it; -lcurl
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1091 2011-06-19 11:00:51 <digitalirony> yeah
1092 2011-06-19 11:01:01 <digitalirony> #include <curl/curl.h>
1093 2011-06-19 11:01:03 <digitalirony> and yeas
1094 2011-06-19 11:01:06 <digitalirony> yes lol
1095 2011-06-19 11:01:10 <digitalirony> I have debian
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1099 2011-06-19 11:06:31 <denisx> digitalirony: you know that you will not get many hashes/sec with nvidia?
1100 2011-06-19 11:06:56 <digitalirony> yes
1101 2011-06-19 11:07:19 <digitalirony> but before I drop 800 bucks on a pair of saphire cards, imma play with it and see how it works
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1125 2011-06-19 11:37:31 <CorvusCorax> Hi. I have been referred here from #bitcoin. I have a question regirding this scenario: http://pastebin.com/vRZEbvtG -- Could valid transactions that stay unconfirmed for a long time because of "insufficient tx fees" be a possibly exploitable securrity risk?
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1128 2011-06-19 11:41:02 <cut> quantum computing is more of a reality by 2013 than dna computing
1129 2011-06-19 11:42:11 ThomasV has joined
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1131 2011-06-19 11:43:35 <CorvusCorax> doesn't need dna computing any technology that requires a big investment to get a big advantage in mining - allowing to monopolize or oligopolize mining efforts
1132 2011-06-19 11:43:41 someone0 is now known as joepie91
1133 2011-06-19 11:44:03 <CorvusCorax> any breakthrough that provides an order-of-magnitude speedup in hashing but is too expensive for "end users" to use would create that effect
1134 2011-06-19 11:44:24 <CorvusCorax> I think whether quantum or DNA or something entirelly different (a supercomputer build from hash-cracking FPGAS) would do it
1135 2011-06-19 11:45:28 <CorvusCorax> thats not the question, the question is, if miners by far majority would require tx fees, which would cause "free transactions" to get delayed - would that be a problem or not ?
1136 2011-06-19 11:46:04 <eps> a central tenet behind bitcoin is that it is pegged to a certain extent to the price of electricity
1137 2011-06-19 11:46:14 <sipa> it is not
1138 2011-06-19 11:46:48 <eps> the increase in difficulty is no?
1139 2011-06-19 11:47:23 <eps> anyway in the scenario that CorvusCorax describes, a new form of very cheap energy has been discovered
1140 2011-06-19 11:47:49 <eps> this would have a far ranging effect on everything
1141 2011-06-19 11:48:04 <sipa> i'd say it's the other way around: difficulty is limited by the exchange rate of bitcoin divided by price of electricity
1142 2011-06-19 11:48:23 <eps> bitcoin would be way down the list on the things people care about
1143 2011-06-19 11:48:48 <eps> and if that new free energy is controlled by a cartel, well yes that is bad
1144 2011-06-19 11:48:53 <eps> but not just for bitcoin
1145 2011-06-19 11:49:17 <sipa> if free energy is controlled by a cartel, the world has bigger problems to worry about, i think
1146 2011-06-19 11:49:24 <CorvusCorax> eps: nah, not necessarily "cheap energy" - energy is not the sole limiting factor - its the "expense per hash calculation" - currently energy is the main limiting factor to do those, but its thinkable that a new technology is found where the limiting factor is not energy but cooling capacity or something - or supply of a very rare mineral needed
1147 2011-06-19 11:49:53 <eps> cooling capicity sounds like energy to me
1148 2011-06-19 11:49:57 <CorvusCorax> yeah true
1149 2011-06-19 11:50:09 <eps> a very rare mineral that enables fast computation?
1150 2011-06-19 11:50:16 <cut> rare mineral? like dilithium crystals?
1151 2011-06-19 11:50:24 <eps> again that would break a lot more than just bitcoin
1152 2011-06-19 11:50:57 <CorvusCorax> even now a major company could decide to build a big "mining pool" into the desert right next to a big solar power plant
1153 2011-06-19 11:51:28 <eps> CorvusCorax: yup and if they were the only ones who did that then that would be bad too
1154 2011-06-19 11:51:36 <CorvusCorax> if the bitcoin they gain cover the cost of expansion - theres infinite solar energy in the desert as long as there's space - so the limitin g factort becomes space
1155 2011-06-19 11:51:51 <eps> it is a danger
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1157 2011-06-19 11:53:32 <eps> CorvusCorax: also remember the payout decreases over time
1158 2011-06-19 11:53:47 <eps> as i understand it will drop from 50 for 25 sometime in 2013
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1160 2011-06-19 11:54:08 <CorvusCorax> but you still haven't answered my question. Assume mining doesnt even get monopolized, but bitcoin reaches its 21 mio limit - so miners do it for the tx fees instead of generation - and the majority stopped accepting free transactions. what are the side effects. what happens if I pay someone with a "free transaction" knowing it would take 24 h or more until it would get confirmed, then 3 hours later pay someone else with a tr
1161 2011-06-19 11:54:08 <CorvusCorax> ansaction that gets confirmed right away - with the same money
1162 2011-06-19 11:54:23 <eps> Satoshi wanted a system where it was easier for most people to trade bitcoins than mine them
1163 2011-06-19 11:54:48 <cacheson> CorvusCorax: don't accept unconfirmed transactions
1164 2011-06-19 11:54:52 <cacheson> simple enough
1165 2011-06-19 11:55:02 <CorvusCorax> aha
1166 2011-06-19 11:55:13 <eps> CorvusCorax: tbh i am not entirely sure what will happen after mining stops giving payouts
1167 2011-06-19 11:55:27 <sipa> the idea is that a free market for mining arises
1168 2011-06-19 11:55:41 <eps> there is a thread on the forum suggesting that the scenerio won't hold up against game theory
1169 2011-06-19 11:55:43 <sipa> if miners don't accept free transactions, that is their right
1170 2011-06-19 11:55:56 <sipa> but if some can do it cheaper than others, market price will drop
1171 2011-06-19 11:56:14 <sipa> but indeed, it's far from certain what will happen in reality
1172 2011-06-19 11:56:16 <eps> it is that trend towards zero that has people worried i think
1173 2011-06-19 11:56:34 <CorvusCorax> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths <-- theres a section about "Point of sale with bitcoins isn't possible because of the 10 minute wait for confirmation " arguing that the first transaction wins and therefore its still safe even without a confirmation if you make sure theres no "competing transactions" within a certain timeframe
1174 2011-06-19 11:56:37 <eps> if the volume is high enough, very low tx fees could be profitable
1175 2011-06-19 11:57:11 <sipa> CorvusCorax: in the future, if bitcoin becomes really succesfull, it will probably be only the backbone a of currency
1176 2011-06-19 11:57:25 <sipa> people will always be able to use that backbone themselves
1177 2011-06-19 11:57:48 <sipa> but most end users will use e-wallet services and visa-like transaction processors that are built on top of it
1178 2011-06-19 11:58:19 <CorvusCorax> yeah, though u need to trust those "banks" operating those services, and the business partner needs to, too
1179 2011-06-19 11:58:20 <eps> like if you have a clearing house
1180 2011-06-19 11:58:30 <sipa> where the transaction processor takes the risk of a tx not getting confirmed
1181 2011-06-19 11:58:31 <eps> you can process tx's instantly
1182 2011-06-19 11:58:40 <sipa> and charges for that risk
1183 2011-06-19 11:58:53 <eps> CorvusCorax: why do you trust your current bank?
1184 2011-06-19 11:59:00 <Sebastan> by speaking about future... when I go into google news and list the news about bitcoins of the last week its negative all the way... so what will happen when really governments start to make bitcoins illegal? are there plans for this case?
1185 2011-06-19 11:59:09 <Leo_II> cool thing about BTC is that you can run your own "backbone" if the service providers charge too much.
1186 2011-06-19 11:59:13 <eps> I am guessing it is because they are well established and a lot of other people use them
1187 2011-06-19 11:59:22 <CorvusCorax> eps: I don't
1188 2011-06-19 11:59:30 <jeremias> what if my ISP starts blocking my ports so that I can't use bitcoin?
1189 2011-06-19 11:59:37 <sipa> jeremias: use another port
1190 2011-06-19 11:59:39 <sipa> or use tor
1191 2011-06-19 11:59:49 <CorvusCorax> jeremias, tor, VPNs elsewhere where u can run it, ...
1192 2011-06-19 11:59:58 <CorvusCorax> proxys
1193 2011-06-19 12:00:02 <eps> jeremias: as long as every isp in the world doesn't do that, bitcoin survives
1194 2011-06-19 12:00:12 <Leo_II> jeremias: "service providers" for banking are banks now. they can charge arbitrary fees for international banking stuff
1195 2011-06-19 12:00:14 <sipa> then again, if bitcoin is really outlawed, i figure its value will drop
1196 2011-06-19 12:00:25 <eps> sipa: true
1197 2011-06-19 12:00:35 <sipa> since it will be impossible to use legally, no real business will be able to use it
1198 2011-06-19 12:00:42 <sipa> so i hope that doesn't happen
1199 2011-06-19 12:00:49 <eps> but the technology is virtually unstoppable bar any breakage in the crypto i think
1200 2011-06-19 12:00:50 <Sebastan> jeremias: good question I thought about too. how about protocol obfuscation or similar techniques used by emule to make it impossible to find out the type of traffic?
1201 2011-06-19 12:00:55 <CorvusCorax> well outlawed internationally versus outlawed in individual countries is a big difference
1202 2011-06-19 12:01:33 <CorvusCorax> in the formwer german democratic republic using dollars or west german marks was outlawed too, still people did it and it was worth a lot more than the east german thing
1203 2011-06-19 12:01:46 <sipa> agree
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1205 2011-06-19 12:02:18 <Sebastan> CorvusCorax: It wasnt illegal as far as I know...
1206 2011-06-19 12:02:56 <Sebastan> didnt the gdr-regime have stores for deutsche mark?
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1208 2011-06-19 12:02:58 <CorvusCorax> Sebastan, nah, but if the Stasi saw u doing it it would have given u problems ;)
1209 2011-06-19 12:03:10 <Sebastan> hm... maybe...
1210 2011-06-19 12:03:14 <CorvusCorax> Sebastan, that was the government officials, they were criminals
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1212 2011-06-19 12:03:40 <CorvusCorax> just because theres a law against it doesnt mean the prime minister wont do it anyway
1213 2011-06-19 12:04:19 <CorvusCorax> especially in the end when the country was going down the drain, they tried to horde as much worth as possible. and their own currency wasnt woth **** anymore
1214 2011-06-19 12:05:13 <Sebastan> so when a government, probably the us, will forbid bitcoins... the effect would be big in my opinion... stores couldnt be paid by bitcoins... and the bitcoins would be cut off. change from or to bitcoins would be hard. while I think it could not lead to the point ot stopping bitcoins it would be hard to use it...
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1217 2011-06-19 12:06:17 <CorvusCorax> the difference is, you can use physical money in secret. nobody knows that u have a stash of eur under ur mattrress in north korea - with bitcoins its different, you need an internet connection, and the characteristics of a p2p network are traceable even if the traffic is encrypted
1218 2011-06-19 12:06:27 <Sebastan> CorvusCorax: What about the "Intershop" in the gdr?
1219 2011-06-19 12:07:15 <CorvusCorax> made for foreign visitors to leave their foreign currencies there. state operated and a measure to bring (valuable foreign) currencies into the states possession
1220 2011-06-19 12:07:29 <CorvusCorax> the employees working there were paid in local currency
1221 2011-06-19 12:08:02 <CorvusCorax> when u visited the gdr you were even required to "exchange" a minimum amount of currency into the local one, at the rate set by the government
1222 2011-06-19 12:08:15 <eps> CorvusCorax: yes the need for an internet connection is a weak point
1223 2011-06-19 12:08:35 <CorvusCorax> theres a difference between what the government does and the laws its citicens need to adhere
1224 2011-06-19 12:08:43 <eps> if the US banned bitcoins that would almost certainly have a short to medium term effect on the value
1225 2011-06-19 12:08:53 <CorvusCorax> yep, because they are big
1226 2011-06-19 12:08:55 <eps> but it wouldn't neccessarily be the end for bitcoins
1227 2011-06-19 12:09:00 <CorvusCorax> yep
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1229 2011-06-19 12:09:26 <eps> all you really need is one country with a decent currency to say "i don't care if people by bitcoins"#
1230 2011-06-19 12:09:46 <CorvusCorax> yep, then everyone can do their transactions through them
1231 2011-06-19 12:09:48 <eps> at which point, USD -> intermidiary currency -> bitcoins
1232 2011-06-19 12:09:49 <Sebastan> it wouldnt be the end for sure. but how useful it would be from that point on would be the question...
1233 2011-06-19 12:10:19 <eps> the real value in bitcoin is it's utility
1234 2011-06-19 12:10:19 <Sebastan> no shopping for example would be a hit...
1235 2011-06-19 12:10:28 <CorvusCorax> well what we need in the end is cornershops accepting bitcoins. so far you can only pay for values on the internet, and the current main use seems to be speculation
1236 2011-06-19 12:10:30 <eps> that you can send money quickly over the internet
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1238 2011-06-19 12:10:50 <CorvusCorax> major banks accepting and trading bitcoins would help too
1239 2011-06-19 12:10:55 <eps> i think bitcoin will always be an online only currency
1240 2011-06-19 12:11:19 <CorvusCorax> by definition
1241 2011-06-19 12:11:21 <eps> but lots of peopel have different ideas about how and where bitcoin will show up in the future
1242 2011-06-19 12:11:25 <CorvusCorax> it needs online access for transactions
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1244 2011-06-19 12:11:35 <eps> which is what makes it interesting
1245 2011-06-19 12:11:48 <CorvusCorax> but everything goes "online" nowadays
1246 2011-06-19 12:12:11 <CorvusCorax> i can pay my public transport ticket through my mobile phone - so why not itcoins
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1248 2011-06-19 12:12:53 <Sebastan> But when bitcoins are forbidden this would mean using them would be a criminal akt. So its usefulness would be hurt badly... while I think the worth of bitcoins as a international currency will be shown when the next financial disaster appears. According to a popular guy in my country its coming soon...
1249 2011-06-19 12:12:58 <CorvusCorax> for everyday live a "physical currency" that u can carry around with you is still useful. pettycash - but banks could even start giving out those
1250 2011-06-19 12:13:06 <CorvusCorax> a "physical currency" backed by bitcoin
1251 2011-06-19 12:13:49 <eps> Sebastan: i agree if the US puts the same resources into persecuting bitcoin users as it has the War on Drugs then bitcoin in the US at least will be a no go
1252 2011-06-19 12:13:58 <CorvusCorax> a piece of paper saying" this piece of paper is worth 0.1 bitcoin, exchangeable at the springfield agricultural bank limited
1253 2011-06-19 12:14:03 <eps> but at this point the US is in so much debt...
1254 2011-06-19 12:14:26 <eps> CorvusCorax: I don't think bitcoin will replace cash
1255 2011-06-19 12:14:33 <eps> cash works very well
1256 2011-06-19 12:15:22 <eps> Sebastan: it could also be very difficult to find people using bitcoin, especially if they use tor
1257 2011-06-19 12:15:24 <CorvusCorax> cash needs a backing. at first they had hard worth (gold coins) then came the paper money backed by gold - meanwhile they dropped the backing (even the swiss did) and its only partial backed if at all
1258 2011-06-19 12:15:34 <CorvusCorax> the US $ is currently backed by virtually nothing
1259 2011-06-19 12:15:48 <eps> it is backed by confidence
1260 2011-06-19 12:15:52 <CorvusCorax> while bitcoin is backed by nothing at all
1261 2011-06-19 12:15:56 <CorvusCorax> yes confidence
1262 2011-06-19 12:16:04 <eps> and the potential for growth
1263 2011-06-19 12:16:18 <CorvusCorax> but unlike bitcoin where theres a limited amount, the US feds keep "printing" dollars without end
1264 2011-06-19 12:16:22 <Sebastan> I think the only backing that is needed is the believe of the owners... and I think there will always be people beliving in bitcoins...
1265 2011-06-19 12:16:26 <eps> which is neccessarily a bad bet, but the US is so under capitalized
1266 2011-06-19 12:18:37 <CorvusCorax> the US economy currently works like this: the federal bank issues credit (backed by nothing) to smaller banks, which use it to buy state bonds, which the federal government uses to pay interest to the same banks, which use that to pay interest to the federal bank (and pay their managers) - the amounts keep rising, and a little bit of that trickles into the main economy, but the problem of undercapitalisation doesnt go away, j
1267 2011-06-19 12:18:37 <CorvusCorax> ust the state dept skyrockets faster and faster
1268 2011-06-19 12:19:01 Joric has joined
1269 2011-06-19 12:19:42 <CorvusCorax> I think its a 2 person ponzi scheme with virtual money
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1271 2011-06-19 12:20:44 <Joric> how may i accept bitcoins on an app engine site, if i don't have a VPS? should i use mybitcoin.com? mtgox api?
1272 2011-06-19 12:21:35 <eps> capitalization is the key i think, if you run a bitcoin economy in the same way as a fractional reserve economy then the recessions would be catastrophic
1273 2011-06-19 12:21:50 <eps> hopefully most bitcoin banks will realise this
1274 2011-06-19 12:22:28 <eps> growth in a large bitcoin economy would be slower but more stable
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1276 2011-06-19 12:23:14 <lfm> circulation rate also effects inflation
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1278 2011-06-19 12:23:51 <Sebastan> Today I saw a video where a financial guru said that at the moment the markets are betting high numbers that american states are going to be bankrupt... so maybe bitcoins will close a hole at some time when other currencies are dying...
1279 2011-06-19 12:24:51 <lfm> If you think bitcoin is more stable than us$ you are on drugs
1280 2011-06-19 12:25:02 <CorvusCorax> safe bet. the current scheme of financing the US use is irreversible. theres no way out but a crash - similar to greece, portugal, several other european states. once you reach the point where u need to take up depts to pay interest ur bankrupt, everything else just delays the inevitable
1281 2011-06-19 12:26:04 <Sebastan> and when isps would block bitcoin-traffic why not use the techniques used by other p2p-softwares to circumvent this? protocol obfuscation, isp traversal, protocol traversal... I think there should be ways to hide such traffic isnt it? otherwise they would need to block every p2p. or am i wrong? if so why?
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1284 2011-06-19 12:26:27 <CorvusCorax> every business owner knows that, but states think they can make the rules and not live by it. However thats a little bit short sighted ;)
1285 2011-06-19 12:27:08 <Sebastan> lfm: Im not saying this. but complementary currencies in history have taken over sometimes when the real currency wasnt good.
1286 2011-06-19 12:27:31 <CorvusCorax> Sebastan, theres one issue, and thats the "everything gets fed to everyone" nature of bitcoin. its possible if the network grows that the cost and bandwidth required to operate a node exceeds the capabilities of an end user
1287 2011-06-19 12:27:53 <sipa> CorvusCorax: then end users won't be running a full node
1288 2011-06-19 12:28:08 <sipa> which bitcoin isn't really designed for anyway
1289 2011-06-19 12:28:17 <sipa> only lightweight nodes aren't implemented yety
1290 2011-06-19 12:28:22 <lfm> covusno prob, so the little guys switch to bitcoin banks like mybitcoin.com or mtgox accounts
1291 2011-06-19 12:28:37 <CorvusCorax> sipa: then you have a two class network. those who can afford running their own "bank node" - and the end users needing to trust their bank nodes to stay up and behave
1292 2011-06-19 12:28:45 <sipa> CorvusCorax: no
1293 2011-06-19 12:28:53 <lfm> so
1294 2011-06-19 12:28:54 <sipa> you do get a 2-tier network
1295 2011-06-19 12:29:13 <sipa> but there is no reason why you as an end user would connect to your bank's node
1296 2011-06-19 12:29:21 <sipa> that's a possibility though
1297 2011-06-19 12:29:47 <lfm> there are lots already like that I think, they just cant be bothered to run bitcoin itself, just have a mtgox account
1298 2011-06-19 12:30:23 <CorvusCorax> I just see it like this. if end users physically cant run a full node anymore, it becomes much more easy for governments to restrict bitcoin usage, they only need to target the tier1 sites and tier2 dies out on its own. its single point(s) of failure
1299 2011-06-19 12:30:38 <sipa> it is not a single point of failure
1300 2011-06-19 12:30:43 <CorvusCorax> if there arent that many, they can forcxe ISP's to keep those tier1 nodes on a blocklist
1301 2011-06-19 12:30:46 <sipa> as still anyone willing to run a node can do so
1302 2011-06-19 12:30:50 <sipa> and even anonimously
1303 2011-06-19 12:30:59 <sipa> it may have a heavy cost
1304 2011-06-19 12:31:00 <jeremias> hmm
1305 2011-06-19 12:31:25 <sipa> but it's still a far way from a centralized service that cannot work without trusting one single company/cartel
1306 2011-06-19 12:31:31 <jeremias> we need more programmers for bitcoin, to combat all there forthcoming issues...
1307 2011-06-19 12:31:38 <CorvusCorax> anonymously? currently I can run bitcoin within tor, but if the transaction volume grows that much, it would overwhelm tors capabilities
1308 2011-06-19 12:31:49 <lfm> cost isnt really that much, any new pc can run bitcoin really, even an atom.
1309 2011-06-19 12:31:52 <CorvusCorax> sipa, true
1310 2011-06-19 12:32:12 <Sebastan> sipa: running as a node means mining? if so... why shouldnt the people let run their gpu when its not needed? let the miner running all night and day is probably only a thing of the start of bitcoin because its later not worth it anymore...
1311 2011-06-19 12:32:13 <CorvusCorax> lfm, iw as talking of bandwidth, not cpu
1312 2011-06-19 12:32:37 <sipa> Sebastan: mining with the best hardware will always be profitable
1313 2011-06-19 12:32:39 <CorvusCorax> Sebastan, no, i wasn't even talking of mining yet, just a node that passes through transactions
1314 2011-06-19 12:32:45 <sipa> if it isn't, difficulty will go down
1315 2011-06-19 12:32:48 <lfm> ya, almost any internet connection can run bitcoin, even I bet a modem could
1316 2011-06-19 12:33:07 <sipa> CorvusCorax: well, with anonymously i mean there is no requirement to give your identity to the already existing mining cartel
1317 2011-06-19 12:33:15 <sipa> sure it may be hard to conceal yourself completely
1318 2011-06-19 12:33:19 <CorvusCorax> will that still be the case if we get billions of transactions a day? and they all get broadcasted across the entire net?
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1320 2011-06-19 12:33:40 <sipa> when we reach that level, i doubt the current tx broadcasting system will still be in use
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1322 2011-06-19 12:33:57 <sipa> you'll have transaction processing companies which have deals with miner companies
1323 2011-06-19 12:33:59 <CorvusCorax> so there is a theoretical alternative, just waiting to be implemented?
1324 2011-06-19 12:34:05 <sipa> and directly send the transactions there
1325 2011-06-19 12:34:22 <lfm> corvus the bank solution comes into play again
1326 2011-06-19 12:34:47 <sipa> on the long term, bitcoin will probably not be possible without trusting middle men
1327 2011-06-19 12:34:51 <CorvusCorax> why should I trust a bank operating within the bitcoin network any more than I trust the current "I want a bailout" banks?
1328 2011-06-19 12:35:07 <sipa> CorvusCorax: a bitcoin bank cannot print money at will
1329 2011-06-19 12:35:21 <sipa> there is a degree of fractional reserve banking possible on top of bitcoin
1330 2011-06-19 12:35:21 <CorvusCorax> and what you described is a horror scenario: mining companies having exclusive contracts with banks?
1331 2011-06-19 12:35:34 <lfm> corvus, its simple if you dont trust the bank then get a node capable of running a node, if you cant run a node then trust a bank
1332 2011-06-19 12:35:38 <CorvusCorax> that means they would accept or not accept transactions not based on the tx fee but where they come from
1333 2011-06-19 12:36:13 <sipa> people will always be free to run their own mining nodes
1334 2011-06-19 12:36:28 <sipa> and i suspect that if there are exclusive deals that fuck their customers
1335 2011-06-19 12:36:31 <lfm> you want your cake and eat it too, migrate to imagination land
1336 2011-06-19 12:36:43 <sipa> some holding will arise which promises the opposite
1337 2011-06-19 12:36:50 <CorvusCorax> assuming a cartel of banks plus mining companies will establish itself, they will be able to keep the difficulty out of reach of end users
1338 2011-06-19 12:37:02 <sipa> end users: sure
1339 2011-06-19 12:37:07 <lfm> CorvusCorax: they already do
1340 2011-06-19 12:37:16 <sipa> but we're talking a worldwide financial network here
1341 2011-06-19 12:37:50 <lfm> yup the ArtForz mining co. and the mtgox bank and money exchange
1342 2011-06-19 12:37:53 <sipa> i can't believe there will at least not be (non financial) companies which do not like the idea of mining being completely in the hands of a cartel, and just start mining themselves
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1345 2011-06-19 12:38:46 <Sebastan> I think going into centralized direction will kill the bottom thought of bitcoins... it would be easy to harm it then...
1346 2011-06-19 12:38:58 Faraday has quit ()
1347 2011-06-19 12:39:06 <CorvusCorax> its profitable though for those centralizing it if they succeed
1348 2011-06-19 12:39:26 <CorvusCorax> it would cease to be a free market
1349 2011-06-19 12:39:32 <Sebastan> and if someone will silently buy slush, deepbit and some more and... has the power without knowing someone.
1350 2011-06-19 12:39:49 <lfm> "centralized" is relative tho. if you only have one bank in each country, thats still like 200 banks or something
1351 2011-06-19 12:40:06 <Sebastan> as far as i read its a problem when more than 50% of mining capabilities are in one hand
1352 2011-06-19 12:40:08 cuddlefish has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1353 2011-06-19 12:40:31 <CorvusCorax> true. but they could easily come to an agreement that they won't accept transactions from either "other banks" or "their own customers" which they could say we only take customers from our country
1354 2011-06-19 12:40:37 <lfm> Sebastan: I agree pools are evil, no one should use pools
1355 2011-06-19 12:41:01 <CorvusCorax> so in the end the end user has the choice "accept the conditions of the national bank" or "make my own, but the other banks wont accept my transactions
1356 2011-06-19 12:41:20 <Sebastan> lfm... come on... i only wanted to say it probable can be done without noticing...
1357 2011-06-19 12:41:36 <CorvusCorax> even if it is noticed - what could you do?
1358 2011-06-19 12:41:55 <lfm> CorvusCorax: ya well if you want to play that game, they might only want rich customers and to hell with little guys. anything "might" happen
1359 2011-06-19 12:42:02 <Sebastan> nothing i think
1360 2011-06-19 12:42:09 <CorvusCorax> lfm: thats exactly what banks do now
1361 2011-06-19 12:42:16 <sipa> these are all very far future things
1362 2011-06-19 12:42:37 <CorvusCorax> the bank Im currently at offers a free account - IF you have an income of at least 3000 a month. if you are below, its heavy fees
1363 2011-06-19 12:43:04 <lfm> CorvusCorax: no reason a bitcoin bank would be different
1364 2011-06-19 12:43:09 <CorvusCorax> their way of saying "only rich customers"
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1367 2011-06-19 12:43:23 <CorvusCorax> lfm: exactly, thats why I think the system must run without NEEDING banks
1368 2011-06-19 12:43:36 <lfm> their way of saying lettle accounts are money losers for them
1369 2011-06-19 12:43:43 <CorvusCorax> without even allowing banks to become poerful enough to dictate the conditions to others
1370 2011-06-19 12:44:38 <lfm> CorvusCorax: well like I said, you dont need a bank if you pay for you own bandwidth and whatnot. its up to you
1371 2011-06-19 12:45:02 <Sebastan> sipa: and when agencies would already work hardly on a way to control the network because they think they have to? why should they want to speak one of the developers? I guess they are behind it so they can say afterwards... we recognized the risk and found ways to fight it...
1372 2011-06-19 12:46:05 <Sebastan> lfm: what kind of bandwidth is needed in your opinion and does every node have to take it?
1373 2011-06-19 12:46:07 Kurtov has joined
1374 2011-06-19 12:46:54 <CorvusCorax> Sebastan, the current protocol broadcasts every transaction throughout the entire network. transactions are small though. even billions a day would still fit through a DSL line I think
1375 2011-06-19 12:47:08 <CorvusCorax> it would fill up harddisk space eventually
1376 2011-06-19 12:47:16 <CorvusCorax> 500 gig as of now
1377 2011-06-19 12:47:35 <lfm> CorvusCorax: no its 500 meg!
1378 2011-06-19 12:47:41 <anu> enki@linux-m98d:~/.bitcoin> du -h .
1379 2011-06-19 12:47:43 <anu> 34M ./database
1380 2011-06-19 12:47:43 <CorvusCorax> sorry what I meant
1381 2011-06-19 12:47:44 <anu> 472M .
1382 2011-06-19 12:47:54 <lfm> slight difference!
1383 2011-06-19 12:47:58 <anu> 472M is filling a HD?
1384 2011-06-19 12:48:16 <lfm> anu I know people cant tell the difference
1385 2011-06-19 12:48:16 <CorvusCorax> my fault, mea culpa, I meant meg, not gig
1386 2011-06-19 12:48:35 <CorvusCorax> if we get billions of transactions a day though, that would increase
1387 2011-06-19 12:48:52 <lfm> so bitcoin still has at least 3 orders of magnitude growth room
1388 2011-06-19 12:49:02 <CorvusCorax> more if by then space becomes bigger
1389 2011-06-19 12:49:13 <CorvusCorax> hd space grows too
1390 2011-06-19 12:49:31 <lfm> CorvusCorax: really? thats something to worry about when/if it happens. not a worry now
1391 2011-06-19 12:50:13 <eps> to me what i like about bitcoin is that if you don't like any of the bitcoin banks available, the barrier for entry into the market and creating your own bitcoin bank is very low
1392 2011-06-19 12:50:49 <eps> this is why we don't see any innovation in the current payment processing market
1393 2011-06-19 12:51:06 kish_ has joined
1394 2011-06-19 12:51:07 <Sebastan> i think bandwidht, disc space and so on will grow for the average user. till now it doesnt sound to me like this grow couldnt compensate the transactiongrow...
1395 2011-06-19 12:51:10 <lfm> frankly it seems most people will never use bitcoin. they think its weird, not real moeny
1396 2011-06-19 12:51:27 <eps> to compete with visa/mastercard the barrier for entory is too high
1397 2011-06-19 12:52:05 <eps> lfm: even if they do think it is real money, they may still not run their own node
1398 2011-06-19 12:52:29 <eps> i am not against the idea that bank charges you to have an account with them
1399 2011-06-19 12:53:04 <eps> the problem at the moment is the banks give out free accounts and then try to monetize them with bizzare financial money gambling schemes
1400 2011-06-19 12:53:14 <eps> like derivatives
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1403 2011-06-19 12:54:08 <lfm> not that those same financial schemes couldn't be used with bitcoin. money is money
1404 2011-06-19 12:54:10 <eps> didn't someone say the blockchain will only be 100GB by 2040?
1405 2011-06-19 12:54:17 <eps> lfm: true
1406 2011-06-19 12:54:41 <lfm> eps very hard to guess that far ahead
1407 2011-06-19 12:54:57 <anu> lfm: people distrusted paper money for a long time
1408 2011-06-19 12:54:58 <eps> i am hoping that bitcoin banks would be more responsible
1409 2011-06-19 12:55:09 <eps> at least 80% capitaliazation
1410 2011-06-19 12:55:27 <eps> if you lost 20% of your money in a recession then that is bad
1411 2011-06-19 12:55:41 <eps> but much better than losing > 90% which is the system we have now
1412 2011-06-19 12:56:26 <lfm> eps bitcoin value fluxuations are like losing 20% in a day now
1413 2011-06-19 12:57:40 <CorvusCorax> to start a bitcoin bank right now (since theres no central bank I could borrow money from) I#d either have to invest enough money to give out bonds in bitcoin, or get people to lend me their money in exchange for interest (since everyone can do transactions in bitcoin, interest is really the only reason why one would use a bank)
1414 2011-06-19 12:58:00 <lfm> I dont see that much to make bitcoin really more stable than other currencies. in fact the lack of regulation and fluidity of bitcoin could make it MORE unstable
1415 2011-06-19 12:58:35 <Sebastan> responsibility != banks ;) I think bitcoin banks wouldnt be a difference. and if they were then the management can change and the new ones want to make more money... i think...
1416 2011-06-19 12:58:47 <CorvusCorax> existing banks have a headtsrat. they could borrow from their federal bank, exchange that money into bitcoin and then lend it out
1417 2011-06-19 12:59:03 <CorvusCorax> headstart ;)
1418 2011-06-19 12:59:46 <lfm> nothing prevents a bitcoin bank from doing fractional reserve technique either
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1422 2011-06-19 13:00:31 <CorvusCorax> that approach might be easier than starting a bank "from nothing" within the bitcoin network
1423 2011-06-19 13:01:17 <CorvusCorax> lfm: true, after all there is no such thing as a "bank in the bitcoin network" - a bank is a bank, regardless of which currency they use and bitcoin is a currency like any other - as far as that goes
1424 2011-06-19 13:01:42 <CorvusCorax> a bank can take a bond in US $ from their federal bank, exchange that money into bitcoin, and then hand out loans in bitcoin
1425 2011-06-19 13:02:17 <eps> CorvusCorax: how about a bitcoin bank where you charge a monthly fee for holding the customers money?
1426 2011-06-19 13:02:25 sb_ has joined
1427 2011-06-19 13:02:37 <CorvusCorax> eps: why should the customer give the bank their money?
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1429 2011-06-19 13:02:57 <eps> because they don't want to run a node themselves?
1430 2011-06-19 13:02:58 <Sebastan> no wallet-stealer anymore... :)
1431 2011-06-19 13:03:02 <eps> this is retail banking
1432 2011-06-19 13:03:04 <CorvusCorax> in the bitcoin net you don#t need a bank to do transactions, u can do them urself
1433 2011-06-19 13:03:16 <lfm> actually the bank could pay interest to depositors
1434 2011-06-19 13:03:16 <CorvusCorax> true
1435 2011-06-19 13:03:23 <eps> this is why people don't keep wads of cash under their matress
1436 2011-06-19 13:03:25 <CorvusCorax> lf: exactly what I said
1437 2011-06-19 13:03:38 <CorvusCorax> eps: my grandmother did
1438 2011-06-19 13:03:49 <eps> most people ;)
1439 2011-06-19 13:04:21 <eps> also if fiat money is turned into bitcoins, that is a transfer of wealth
1440 2011-06-19 13:04:27 <CorvusCorax> she must have had bad experience with the big crash of the system in the 40's - makes you distrust money on the bank side
1441 2011-06-19 13:04:45 <eps> and that only makes sense if the depositor belives in bitcoin as a store of value
1442 2011-06-19 13:05:08 <eps> basically there is only so much wealth in the world
1443 2011-06-19 13:05:16 <lfm> CorvusCorax: crash was in 1929. depresion was in the 1930s
1444 2011-06-19 13:05:23 <CorvusCorax> lfm: in the US
1445 2011-06-19 13:05:26 <eps> fiat money is one way of looking at that wealth
1446 2011-06-19 13:05:31 <eps> bitcoin is another
1447 2011-06-19 13:05:31 ArdaXi has quit (Quit: leaving)
1448 2011-06-19 13:05:37 <CorvusCorax> german economic system didn't survive the end of workldwar II it started from zero
1449 2011-06-19 13:05:38 ArdaXi has joined
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1452 2011-06-19 13:05:39 <eps> it is kinda looking like a prism
1453 2011-06-19 13:05:52 <eps> but neither gives you a complete picuture
1454 2011-06-19 13:06:02 <lfm> CorvusCorax: oh ok
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1459 2011-06-19 13:07:26 <CorvusCorax> accustomed currency in Germany in 1946 was american cigarettes ;)
1460 2011-06-19 13:07:56 <eps> it is ent
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1464 2011-06-19 13:08:35 <eps> sorry, it is entirely possible for retail banking and investment banking to be merged in the bitcoin economy in the same way that it is in the current economy
1465 2011-06-19 13:08:52 <eps> but i believe the results of that would be catastrophic
1466 2011-06-19 13:09:10 <eps> and smart people wouldn't put their bitcoins in those banks
1467 2011-06-19 13:09:23 <CorvusCorax> full ack
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1469 2011-06-19 13:09:26 <eps> because of the insanely high risk when a recession occurs
1470 2011-06-19 13:09:29 <lfm> I dont think there is anything anyone can do to prevent it developing eventually
1471 2011-06-19 13:09:38 <Sebastan> eps: i guess youre right...
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1473 2011-06-19 13:10:08 <Sebastan> bitcoins can only solve some problems... :) but at least some...
1474 2011-06-19 13:10:09 <eps> the point about bitcoin is the low barrier to entry gives you a choice
1475 2011-06-19 13:10:21 <eps> i have no idea if bitcoin really will take off or not
1476 2011-06-19 13:10:26 <eps> but i really hope it does
1477 2011-06-19 13:10:34 <eps> cos the current system sucks
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1481 2011-06-19 13:12:06 <lfm> mtgox is already getting there. it recently revealed it had deposits of over 430000 BTC
1482 2011-06-19 13:12:20 <Sebastan> i think it will take off... because there are believers... and there are still many potential followers that dont know of bitcoins... and the users believe in bitcoins. so everything important is there I guess...
1483 2011-06-19 13:12:58 <ThomasV> lfm: source ?
1484 2011-06-19 13:13:09 <eps> it was on the forums i think
1485 2011-06-19 13:13:25 <eps> people noticed an address with a high balance
1486 2011-06-19 13:13:30 <lfm> ThomasV: the block chain and some analysis done by some people in the forums
1487 2011-06-19 13:13:31 <eps> and it was confirmed to be mt gox
1488 2011-06-19 13:13:40 Titeuf_87 has joined
1489 2011-06-19 13:13:46 <ThomasV> lfm: the block chain is not mtgox
1490 2011-06-19 13:14:43 <lfm> ThomasV: yes but the addresses in the block chain associated with the transaction in question was mtgox
1491 2011-06-19 13:14:48 <CorvusCorax> ThomasV, you asked him for "source" he answered "the block chain" ;)
1492 2011-06-19 13:15:05 <CorvusCorax> or do u mean source of the money ? ;)
1493 2011-06-19 13:15:08 <ThomasV> the richest address has 432109 btc, but I would be surprised if it was a mtgox address
1494 2011-06-19 13:15:11 <CorvusCorax> I assume it was mined at some point ;)
1495 2011-06-19 13:15:59 <lfm> ThomasV: well you should take it up with the guys in the forum who are pretty sure it is mtgox
1496 2011-06-19 13:16:21 <ThomasV> lfm: could you give me the source ? the forum thread ?
1497 2011-06-19 13:16:28 <CorvusCorax> at the current exchange rate that'd be over 7 million US $ - but you couldn#t sell them without dropping the price significantly
1498 2011-06-19 13:17:22 <lfm> ThomasV: I dont have a nice link off hand .. I spoze I could look if you really want me to instead of you finding it yourself
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1500 2011-06-19 13:17:54 <ThomasV> lfm: well, if you do not have a source, do not spread rumors
1501 2011-06-19 13:18:17 <ThomasV> mr 432k cashing out could indeed cause a price drop
1502 2011-06-19 13:18:25 <lfm> ThomasV: I did see the thread. I just dont know if I can find again right now.
1503 2011-06-19 13:18:43 <ThomasV> anyway, there's plenty of bs on the forum :-)
1504 2011-06-19 13:19:28 <lfm> true they could be mistaken, but they seemed sincere
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1506 2011-06-19 13:19:47 <Titeuf_87> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=15998.0
1507 2011-06-19 13:19:49 <Titeuf_87> This thread?
1508 2011-06-19 13:20:11 <ThomasV> lfm: it woulf be foolish to leave that amount at mtgox, because mtgox could be shut down
1509 2011-06-19 13:20:18 <lfm> Ya, thats the thread I saw
1510 2011-06-19 13:20:26 <ThomasV> even if they want to cash out, they will not do it at once
1511 2011-06-19 13:20:58 Netsniper has joined
1512 2011-06-19 13:21:37 <lfm> it probably not ONE account. it probably mtgox moving their whole btc reserve (for security reason perhpas)
1513 2011-06-19 13:22:19 <ThomasV> oh I see
1514 2011-06-19 13:22:35 <ThomasV> I thought you were saying that it was someone's account at mtgox
1515 2011-06-19 13:22:50 <ThomasV> it might be mtgox's safe deposit, indeed
1516 2011-06-19 13:22:53 <lfm> sorry, did not mean to say that
1517 2011-06-19 13:25:44 <lfm> altho I suspect one or two of the early developers could have that much from the 2009 timeframe if they didnt already sell them all
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1521 2011-06-19 13:30:12 <eps> there is a guy with 350k
1522 2011-06-19 13:30:20 <eps> who mined early on
1523 2011-06-19 13:30:31 <eps> i wonder how many satoshi has
1524 2011-06-19 13:30:46 <eps> apparently gavin is on record saying he doesn't have a lot of BTC
1525 2011-06-19 13:33:05 <lfm> satoshi was on record as saying he had "plenty" grin
1526 2011-06-19 13:33:10 freakazoid has joined
1527 2011-06-19 13:33:35 <denisx> I think he has 1.6 million BCT
1528 2011-06-19 13:33:41 <denisx> at least
1529 2011-06-19 13:34:24 AStove has joined
1530 2011-06-19 13:34:37 <denisx> I hink he genrated all blocks in the first year, because the difficulty did not rise at all until the end of 2009
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1535 2011-06-19 13:44:48 <intelliot> hi
1536 2011-06-19 13:45:05 <intelliot> i have a PDF i would like to sell for bitcoins, on my website, in an automated way
1537 2011-06-19 13:45:18 <intelliot> so i want to be able to show an address on the website
1538 2011-06-19 13:45:39 <intelliot> and when the visitor sends X bitcoins to that address, the site should automatically grant them access to the file
1539 2011-06-19 13:45:43 E-sense has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1540 2011-06-19 13:45:50 <intelliot> how can i do this?
1541 2011-06-19 13:48:23 lumos has joined
1542 2011-06-19 13:48:58 Stellar has joined
1543 2011-06-19 13:49:06 <ericmock> intelliot: you want this all automated?
1544 2011-06-19 13:49:14 <intelliot> yes, why not?
1545 2011-06-19 13:49:20 mmoya has joined
1546 2011-06-19 13:50:13 <ericmock> what programming languages do you know?
1547 2011-06-19 13:50:45 <intelliot> php/mysql, (x)html/css/javascript, objective-c
1548 2011-06-19 13:51:13 <ericmock> awesome... that's essentially my list too
1549 2011-06-19 13:51:45 <intelliot> heh. what's the minimum i need on the server side? is it possible to do this on a shared host, or do i need a VPS?
1550 2011-06-19 13:52:05 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1551 2011-06-19 13:52:48 <ericmock> I'm not sure how you have, say, php confirm that a transaction is confirmed... but there is apparently a bitcoin payment module for osCommerce which is written in php
1552 2011-06-19 13:52:59 <ericmock> I'd suggest having a look at that
1553 2011-06-19 14:01:37 freakazoid has joined
1554 2011-06-19 14:01:59 <intelliot> does block explorer have an API/
1555 2011-06-19 14:02:00 <intelliot> ?
1556 2011-06-19 14:02:17 <ius> intelliot: Try looking for it
1557 2011-06-19 14:02:44 intelliot has quit (Quit: intelliot)
1558 2011-06-19 14:03:55 Mattus has joined
1559 2011-06-19 14:04:50 <Mattus> Hello, is there any programmer? I pushpool of questions to ask and miningfarm2
1560 2011-06-19 14:05:36 <ius> Woah word order. But, ask away and I'll see what I can do for you regarding pushpool ;)
1561 2011-06-19 14:07:09 <tcatm> Is anyone here familiar with TPM? I wonder if it could be used to secure wallets.
1562 2011-06-19 14:08:45 <Mattus> Sorry, but I use a translator xD anyway I've compiled and installed perfectly pushpool and writes the data in the database shares.log, the only problem I believe is in the generation. Bitcoind.conf set of gen = 1 then I would generate, but I think there is any problem with the front-end as in the table "networkBlocks" fields are blank: "txid", "accountAddress" and "Confirms"
1563 2011-06-19 14:08:48 E-sense has joined
1564 2011-06-19 14:09:04 <ius> tcatm: What kind of TPM? Guess you mean HSM to broaden the spectrum a bit
1565 2011-06-19 14:09:34 <ius> If there's a cheap smartcard or dongle which can perform ECDSA signatures /w key storage, yes please
1566 2011-06-19 14:10:14 <ius> Mattus: Oh, miningfarm2 is a frontend? Sorry, only /kind of/ familiar with pushpool itself
1567 2011-06-19 14:10:50 <tcatm> ius: I was thinking of the TPM already in my computer
1568 2011-06-19 14:11:10 <Mattus> ok thanks for all.
1569 2011-06-19 14:11:14 Mattus has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1570 2011-06-19 14:11:15 <ius> Oh, you actually have one? :)
1571 2011-06-19 14:11:27 <tcatm> yes
1572 2011-06-19 14:12:11 kreal- has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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1575 2011-06-19 14:13:08 <tcatm> Now I'm trying to figure out how it can tell me whether my operating system hasn't been modified (booting from a read only media)
1576 2011-06-19 14:14:30 spola has joined
1577 2011-06-19 14:15:15 <ius> Hmm I think most TPMs are mostly meant to store keys and/or perform common crypto ops? (as in, SHA1/AES/RSA or so)
1578 2011-06-19 14:15:19 <ius> http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/chip-card-and-security-ics/embedded-security/trusted-platform-management/trusted-platform-module-tpm1.2/channel.html?channel=ff80808112ab681d0112ab6921ae011f
1579 2011-06-19 14:16:10 <ius> So I doubt it's able to help you with that. Most linux package managers should be able to verify all installed packages though, I suppose
1580 2011-06-19 14:16:54 <ius> That sounds like an easy way to solve things. Assuming you run linux or something else with a package manager ;)
1581 2011-06-19 14:17:10 <tcatm> I'm assuming an attacker would clone my bitcoin-only-livecd and modify it so it would send my coins to him the next time I use it...
1582 2011-06-19 14:17:40 fabianhjr has joined
1583 2011-06-19 14:18:32 <ius> Why? Your livecd is readonly?
1584 2011-06-19 14:18:52 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1585 2011-06-19 14:19:09 <tcatm> He could copy it, get an identical bank CD and modify it.
1586 2011-06-19 14:19:13 <lfm> if attacker has physical access to your pc you're toast afaik
1587 2011-06-19 14:20:34 <ius> Hmf, I'd consider such scenarios as low-risk.. Plus that ^^^^
1588 2011-06-19 14:21:55 <tcatm> Sure, but my wallet.dat (already encrypted and only decrypted when realy needed) makes that still a somewhat high risk.
1589 2011-06-19 14:22:13 <ius> If you're concerned with adversaries swapping your CDs you have alot more to worry about..
1590 2011-06-19 14:23:06 <ius> But I don't think commonly found TPMs can solve your problem; They would have to support some kind of secure boot chain, as commonly found on embedded systems
1591 2011-06-19 14:24:10 <ius> I'd personally rather solve the 'secure signing & key storage problem' and keep the dongle/smartcard in my pocket
1592 2011-06-19 14:24:48 <tcatm> what if you lose that?
1593 2011-06-19 14:25:23 <ius> You have a backup in a safe somewhere.
1594 2011-06-19 14:25:25 <lfm> if TPM can store a hash of your CD you can check it but attacker can remove the check if he is modifying the cd
1595 2011-06-19 14:25:54 <tcatm> the TPM could verify a signature
1596 2011-06-19 14:26:49 <ius> Yeah, and then? If(TPM_verify(signature()) { run_evil_code(); } else { run_evil_code_anyway(); }
1597 2011-06-19 14:26:51 <lfm> can it do verify BEFORE you boot?
1598 2011-06-19 14:27:13 <tcatm> hrm
1599 2011-06-19 14:28:24 <tcatm> http://www.sirrix.com/content/pages/50586.htm
1600 2011-06-19 14:29:44 IO- has joined
1601 2011-06-19 14:31:24 <ius> That looks like it /can/ support a full chain of trust
1602 2011-06-19 14:31:57 <tcatm> yep
1603 2011-06-19 14:33:44 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1604 2011-06-19 14:34:57 <TD> hey, anyone with forum moderation powers here?
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1606 2011-06-19 14:39:41 <jrmithdobbs> where are the magic network numbers actually defined in the source? having trouble finding them atm for some reason
1607 2011-06-19 14:41:00 <midnightmagic> What are you looking for specifically?
1608 2011-06-19 14:41:16 <jrmithdobbs> the magic value that starts the network packets for live vs testnet
1609 2011-06-19 14:41:16 <ius> jrmithdobbs: main.cpp ~1472
1610 2011-06-19 14:41:43 kcsrnd has joined
1611 2011-06-19 14:41:48 <jrmithdobbs> ius: in what function? my 1472 is different from yours it seems ;P
1612 2011-06-19 14:41:57 <ius> bool LoadBlockIndex(bool fAllowNew)
1613 2011-06-19 14:42:11 <jrmithdobbs> there it is, thanks
1614 2011-06-19 14:42:12 <ius> (That's git master)
1615 2011-06-19 14:42:29 <jrmithdobbs> ya i haven't merged walletclass/etc yet so it's much further down in the file, heh
1616 2011-06-19 14:43:42 sipa has joined
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1619 2011-06-19 14:46:57 <gmaxwell> sipa: please rescale the graphs
1620 2011-06-19 14:47:20 <ius> sipa: Check out http://pastie.org/private/hyahrdypi73gxu3fclaasq - few bits which popped up as I enabled some warning output
1621 2011-06-19 14:48:23 <ius> Also, keystore.h:22, an issue when the key is NOT found, I suppose
1622 2011-06-19 14:48:26 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1623 2011-06-19 14:53:19 <sipa> ius: the first shouldn't be an issue, unless there is a problem with the locking
1624 2011-06-19 14:53:33 joepie91 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1625 2011-06-19 14:53:33 <sipa> the second is very true, thanks for looking at it
1626 2011-06-19 14:53:52 ezl_ has joined
1627 2011-06-19 14:54:01 <sipa> and keystore.h:22, it's only intended to be used when HaveKey already returned true, but the interface can be better
1628 2011-06-19 14:54:45 <ius> sipa: Yeah true, but gcc complains, hence I moved it
1629 2011-06-19 14:55:20 Incitatus has joined
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1631 2011-06-19 14:55:44 <sipa> i'm really surprised i didn't find the problem with getChange() not when testing
1632 2011-06-19 14:55:57 <sipa> all calculated changes should have been wrong
1633 2011-06-19 14:57:19 <jrmithdobbs> yay -O2
1634 2011-06-19 14:57:34 <jrmithdobbs> this is not the code you think it is! ;P
1635 2011-06-19 14:57:39 vokoda has joined
1636 2011-06-19 14:57:48 <jrmithdobbs> (that'd be my guess anyways)
1637 2011-06-19 15:00:21 jeffasinger has joined
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1644 2011-06-19 15:16:48 <redshark1802> Hello, I've been experimenting and now im wondering how to verifiy that a block has been found. Is the column "upstream_result" for that and if it is how can i extract the blocknumber from that
1645 2011-06-19 15:16:57 <redshark1802> *with pushpool
1646 2011-06-19 15:17:31 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
1647 2011-06-19 15:17:45 DmD0 has quit (Client Quit)
1648 2011-06-19 15:18:08 <sipa> ;;bc,blocks
1649 2011-06-19 15:18:09 <gribble> 131859
1650 2011-06-19 15:18:16 intelliot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1651 2011-06-19 15:19:19 BlueMatt has joined
1652 2011-06-19 15:19:23 <BlueMatt> ;;ping
1653 2011-06-19 15:19:24 <gribble> pong
1654 2011-06-19 15:19:40 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1655 2011-06-19 15:19:43 bitanarchy has joined
1656 2011-06-19 15:20:34 <BlueMatt> anything exciting I should know before I checkout for the day and go sit by the pool?
1657 2011-06-19 15:21:02 <jrmithdobbs> redshark1802: our_result AND upstream_result will be Y when a block is found
1658 2011-06-19 15:21:34 moop has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1659 2011-06-19 15:21:34 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1660 2011-06-19 15:22:12 <redshark1802> jrmithdbobbs: thanks, is there an option to extract the block that was actually found with the given data
1661 2011-06-19 15:22:34 <jrmithdobbs> not automagically no
1662 2011-06-19 15:23:32 lessPlastic has joined
1663 2011-06-19 15:23:32 <redshark1802> i know i can scan the transactions and get the block from there, but i find it very unclean
1664 2011-06-19 15:23:33 <bitanarchy> my bitcoin client v0.3.21 is not receiving any blocks...
1665 2011-06-19 15:23:55 <sipa> use 0.3.23, it has some fixes for the connection issues
1666 2011-06-19 15:24:05 <sipa> BlueMatt: walletclass is merged
1667 2011-06-19 15:24:06 <jrmithdobbs> redshark1802: ya that's what you have to do essentially. pushpool isn't really in a plug and play ready go state for the masses
1668 2011-06-19 15:24:11 <bitanarchy> How do i upgrade?
1669 2011-06-19 15:24:20 <sipa> download/install the new version
1670 2011-06-19 15:24:27 <bitanarchy> and the wallet
1671 2011-06-19 15:24:42 <sipa> make a backup, but the wallet format should be compatible
1672 2011-06-19 15:25:01 <redshark1802> jrmithdobbs: thats right, i already have the solution but im not satisfied with it :).
1673 2011-06-19 15:25:06 <redshark1802> :(
1674 2011-06-19 15:25:34 <bitanarchy> So i copy the files: wallet.dat, block0001.dat and blkindex.dat and then start the new client
1675 2011-06-19 15:25:56 <redshark1802> can i somehow extract the blocknumber from the result?
1676 2011-06-19 15:26:19 <iz> redshark1802: you could modify blkmond maybe to detect a new block?
1677 2011-06-19 15:26:27 m00p has joined
1678 2011-06-19 15:27:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: nice, well let the rebaseing commense
1679 2011-06-19 15:27:31 <BlueMatt> Ill work on that as soon as I get home (assuming no one else has worked on it yet ;)
1680 2011-06-19 15:27:38 <sipa> when do you get home?
1681 2011-06-19 15:27:47 <x6763> can the bitcoin client connect out to a node running on a non-standard port?
1682 2011-06-19 15:27:52 <sipa> x6763: yes
1683 2011-06-19 15:27:59 <x6763> sipa: cool, thanks
1684 2011-06-19 15:28:09 <sipa> but there was (is?) a penalty for doing so
1685 2011-06-19 15:28:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: thursday
1686 2011-06-19 15:28:22 <x6763> oh, i see
1687 2011-06-19 15:28:33 <sipa> BlueMatt: you know more about the non-standard port issue?
1688 2011-06-19 15:28:34 <BlueMatt> anyway, Ima go swimming/sit by the pool see yall later
1689 2011-06-19 15:28:38 <sipa> have fun!
1690 2011-06-19 15:28:50 <BlueMatt> what issue?
1691 2011-06-19 15:29:07 <BlueMatt> you mean no incoming connections, yea thats a "feature" not a bug
1692 2011-06-19 15:29:15 <BlueMatt> grep in net.cpp for the 24 hour delay
1693 2011-06-19 15:29:19 <BlueMatt> prob 24 * 60 * 60
1694 2011-06-19 15:29:25 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1695 2011-06-19 15:29:27 <bitanarchy> I heart that 0.3.23 has problems with 5btc
1696 2011-06-19 15:29:38 <sipa> ?
1697 2011-06-19 15:29:38 <redshark1802> only in the german version
1698 2011-06-19 15:29:43 <sipa> ah, that
1699 2011-06-19 15:29:52 <redshark1802> if you send 0,<--005
1700 2011-06-19 15:29:52 <sipa> i believe that's a bug that's already present for a very long time
1701 2011-06-19 15:29:58 <redshark1802> you have to use .
1702 2011-06-19 15:31:53 Incitatus has joined
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1704 2011-06-19 15:34:01 <jrmithdobbs> germans just need to fix their retarded non-standard use of commas in numbers
1705 2011-06-19 15:34:04 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
1706 2011-06-19 15:35:27 <redshark1802> xD
1707 2011-06-19 15:35:32 <copumpkin> not just germans
1708 2011-06-19 15:35:39 <Titeuf_87> The Dutch and French languages also use a comma for decimals, it's not just German.
1709 2011-06-19 15:35:50 <jrmithdobbs> so the dutch and french are dumb too
1710 2011-06-19 15:35:51 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
1711 2011-06-19 15:35:54 <copumpkin> not sure I'd talk about standard when it comes to arbitrary punctuation decisions made by different countries
1712 2011-06-19 15:36:00 <copumpkin> :)
1713 2011-06-19 15:36:00 <Titeuf_87> Although on computers most people use the numpad to enter numbers, which does enter a dot and not a comma.
1714 2011-06-19 15:36:10 <jrmithdobbs> arabs use '.' and it's their number system. everyone else is wrong de facto
1715 2011-06-19 15:36:18 <jrmithdobbs> heh
1716 2011-06-19 15:36:33 <CorvusCorax> Titeuf_87, thats because nowadays keaboards base on the 1980 IBM design of how a keaboyard looks like, which is US based
1717 2011-06-19 15:36:34 jzknight has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1718 2011-06-19 15:36:38 <redshark1802> titeuf on the german numpad it doesnt^^
1719 2011-06-19 15:36:46 theorb has joined
1720 2011-06-19 15:36:49 <CorvusCorax> my keypad actually has a comma printed on it
1721 2011-06-19 15:37:01 <CorvusCorax> actually it makes a comma, too
1722 2011-06-19 15:37:04 <CorvusCorax> ,,,
1723 2011-06-19 15:37:05 <gribble> Error: "," is not a valid command.
1724 2011-06-19 15:37:26 <CorvusCorax> (yes, its a german keyboard)
1725 2011-06-19 15:37:29 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1726 2011-06-19 15:37:33 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
1727 2011-06-19 15:38:04 <CorvusCorax> though I'm sure I can set that up somewhere in the keyboard driver configuration
1728 2011-06-19 15:38:06 JRWR has joined
1729 2011-06-19 15:38:32 <Titeuf_87> Ah. Belgian keyboard here and I get a dot with numpad.
1730 2011-06-19 15:38:44 lessPlastic has joined
1731 2011-06-19 15:38:49 <CorvusCorax> subtle differences ;)
1732 2011-06-19 15:38:57 <Titeuf_87> Except for some apps that tries to be smart (oo.calc and excel) that automatically converts that to a comma.
1733 2011-06-19 15:39:37 <jrmithdobbs> so what do those locales use instead of , to demark in large numbers like: 1,000,000 ?
1734 2011-06-19 15:39:39 <CorvusCorax> yeah that sucks. its almost impossible to make them stop that
1735 2011-06-19 15:39:48 <CorvusCorax> dot
1736 2011-06-19 15:39:52 <Titeuf_87> jrmithdobbs, here we use a space
1737 2011-06-19 15:39:54 <CorvusCorax> 3.000,22
1738 2011-06-19 15:40:07 <copumpkin> jrmithdobbs: I hate to break it to you, but some countries break digits up into groups of four, too :P
1739 2011-06-19 15:40:16 <CorvusCorax> yeah we use spaces too, but I've seen it with dots somewhere once
1740 2011-06-19 15:40:21 <jrmithdobbs> ya sticking with "you guys are broken suck it up"
1741 2011-06-19 15:40:23 <iz> copumpkin: who does that?
1742 2011-06-19 15:41:17 <copumpkin> iz: China and Japan, partly
1743 2011-06-19 15:41:17 <copumpkin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_numerals#Powers_of_10
1744 2011-06-19 15:41:20 <iz> did you know greek has words for their triple digit numbers, so when ppl say strings of numbers, they usually do it in 3s?
1745 2011-06-19 15:41:36 mtrlt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1746 2011-06-19 15:42:07 <jrmithdobbs> iz: ya legacy left over from their broken non-arabic number system from millenia ago ;P
1747 2011-06-19 15:42:18 <iz> yup
1748 2011-06-19 15:42:28 <jrmithdobbs> that one I actually knew about, heh
1749 2011-06-19 15:42:47 <jrmithdobbs> using , for . blows my mind
1750 2011-06-19 15:42:48 <iz> i learned about that a few years ago from a greek coworker
1751 2011-06-19 15:43:20 <iz> also learned to never look into medusa's gaze
1752 2011-06-19 15:43:22 <Titeuf_87> jrmithdobbs, it's just a habit. If you see it everywhere like that, you get used to it :)
1753 2011-06-19 15:44:43 <jrmithdobbs> Titeuf_87: new globalized world! if we have to cope with metric y'all should have to cope with . instead of , ;P
1754 2011-06-19 15:44:57 <redshark1802> one last question: has some a link to a documentation on how to retrieve information and what information from a share?
1755 2011-06-19 15:45:12 <bitanarchy> If I install a new bitcoin version and provide it with blockchain files and a wallet file, do I need to run it with -rescan?
1756 2011-06-19 15:45:33 <jrmithdobbs> bitanarchy: if that wallet is behind the blockchain you're giving it, yes, otherwise no
1757 2011-06-19 15:45:49 <jrmithdobbs> might as well anyways, the rescan doesn't take that long and only runs once on launch anyways
1758 2011-06-19 15:46:03 <iz> redshark1802: what information do you want? the solution field is the block header the miner hashed to get the share (with padding)
1759 2011-06-19 15:46:25 <redshark1802> iz: the block hash / number
1760 2011-06-19 15:46:44 <iz> redshark1802: that information isn't included in shares
1761 2011-06-19 15:46:58 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: since 0.3.21 a rescan is done automatically if the wallet is older than the block chain
1762 2011-06-19 15:47:24 <redshark1802> iz: thats sad
1763 2011-06-19 15:47:32 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: good to know
1764 2011-06-19 15:47:36 <iz> redshark1802: not really.. it's pretty easy to code it in
1765 2011-06-19 15:48:38 <iz> redshark1802: just make a counter variable as part of the srv struct, and increment it when it flushes LP buffers on a USR1 signal.. and then modify your db_whatever code to log that number with your shares
1766 2011-06-19 15:49:02 jimrandomh has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1767 2011-06-19 15:49:03 <redshark1802> iz: i wanted to avoid that ;). but it shouldnt be a problem. thanks ill look into it
1768 2011-06-19 15:49:15 roconnor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1769 2011-06-19 15:50:01 <iz> redshark1802: if you want to set up a pool or do anything useful w/ pushpool, you should take the time to familiarize yourself w/ the code or find someone to work with who does.. because you'll likely have to do some custom modifications to get it to do what you want it to
1770 2011-06-19 15:50:53 <redshark1802> iz: until now it has been just right.
1771 2011-06-19 15:51:04 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1772 2011-06-19 15:51:12 <iz> you can do stuff outside of it also.. just in the db
1773 2011-06-19 15:51:35 JRWR has joined
1774 2011-06-19 15:51:36 <iz> like have another script that monitors stats using the json rpc bitcoind connection
1775 2011-06-19 15:51:49 <iz> and then you can just leave pushpool like it is
1776 2011-06-19 15:52:17 <iz> and have the other monitoring script fill in the block number info or whatever else you wanted in the db
1777 2011-06-19 15:52:32 <redshark1802> im using that already, i just want to make the calculations clean and not via listtransactions
1778 2011-06-19 15:53:12 redshark1802 is now known as redshark801|brb
1779 2011-06-19 15:53:15 <redshark801> brb!~redshark1@178-26-186-168-dynip.superkabel.de|brb
1780 2011-06-19 15:55:53 BTCTrader has joined
1781 2011-06-19 15:56:19 BTCTrader is now known as Guest45318
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1783 2011-06-19 15:57:23 Cusipzzz has joined
1784 2011-06-19 16:00:25 <jrmithdobbs> :w
1785 2011-06-19 16:01:10 freakazoid has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1786 2011-06-19 16:01:36 redshark801 is now known as brb!~redshark1@178-26-186-168-dynip.superkabel.de|redshark1802
1787 2011-06-19 16:01:36 <redshark1802> re
1788 2011-06-19 16:03:39 <TD> good afternoon
1789 2011-06-19 16:04:22 minus has left ("Verlassend")
1790 2011-06-19 16:07:04 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1791 2011-06-19 16:08:19 <jrmithdobbs> haha, didn't even notice that :w went to the wrong window
1792 2011-06-19 16:08:26 <jrmithdobbs> no wonder that shit didn't build
1793 2011-06-19 16:08:30 <gmaxwell> haha
1794 2011-06-19 16:08:50 Mononofu has joined
1795 2011-06-19 16:10:12 <CorvusCorax> Evil miners bitcoin modification cookbook: http://pastebin.com/yxswDTLK
1796 2011-06-19 16:10:22 IoWn3rU has joined
1797 2011-06-19 16:11:32 <TD> so what? those are just 50%+ attacks or "don't relay transactions" attacks, which were discussed thoroughly many times
1798 2011-06-19 16:11:58 <gmaxwell> CorvusCorax: thats mostly idiocy that doesn't work unless you have >50% hashpower.
1799 2011-06-19 16:13:21 <CorvusCorax> gmaxwell, I think it might be possible to profit from those at below 50%. (20%-50%) Above 50% it would definitely work. Below its useless
1800 2011-06-19 16:14:35 <gmaxwell> CorvusCorax: Do the math. Below 50% the block games have negative expectation. Yes, they'll work sometimes, but they'll fail more often, and when they fail they cost you money (because you end up on an invalid side chain)
1801 2011-06-19 16:14:57 <CorvusCorax> especially holding back the latest block until you "need it" should give a slight advantage that breaks a near 50/50 chance in the attackers favor
1802 2011-06-19 16:15:24 <CorvusCorax> the calculating based on the previous block however I agree is a gamble thats gonna cost more than it gives you
1803 2011-06-19 16:15:32 <CorvusCorax> unless you have m,ore than 50%
1804 2011-06-19 16:15:44 <gmaxwell> CorvusCorax: no, holding back the block only means that that no third party will be working to extend a chain containing that block.
1805 2011-06-19 16:16:27 <gmaxwell> Once you've heard a competing one from the network it will be too lateâ people will be working to extend that one instead of yours.
1806 2011-06-19 16:16:59 <gmaxwell> If you outpace the rest of the network then thats fine, but if you don't you're most likely going to lose out.
1807 2011-06-19 16:17:54 <CorvusCorax> thats why in the first rule i stated to "spider web" throughout the net as widely as possible. that way by the time you "hear" of that block it didnt propagate far yet, and you can still give your block to most of the network first (if you have one)
1808 2011-06-19 16:18:22 <CorvusCorax> that way the majority of the net would likely work on extending your chain instead of the other
1809 2011-06-19 16:19:36 <CorvusCorax> you however had more time to compute on that chain, which makes more attempted hashes in total
1810 2011-06-19 16:19:50 karnac has joined
1811 2011-06-19 16:19:53 <gmaxwell> The work isn't cumulative, it's just chance.
1812 2011-06-19 16:20:02 <CorvusCorax> as I said, only makes sense if you are "near 50%" anyway
1813 2011-06-19 16:20:12 <CorvusCorax> yes, but its a higher chance
1814 2011-06-19 16:20:26 <gmaxwell> If you haven't already extended the change at this point in time then the amount of work you did prior to this point in time isn't relevant.
1815 2011-06-19 16:20:32 <gmaxwell> s/change/chain/
1816 2011-06-19 16:22:06 <CorvusCorax> true. in that case you are down to your "regular chance of succeeding" like everyone else. but if you did, you have a headstart again
1817 2011-06-19 16:22:32 <gmaxwell> There is no such thing as a headstart because there is no progress.
1818 2011-06-19 16:23:01 <gmaxwell> Every hash independantly does or doesn't create a solution.
1819 2011-06-19 16:23:12 <CorvusCorax> except that a small portion of the net is calculating based on another block already. that can work for you or against you. it works for you because since parts of the net calculate based on another chain, your part of "the rest" is higher. it can work against you since if they succeed, your computing of a block has been overridden
1820 2011-06-19 16:23:31 <CorvusCorax> headstart as in "one block ahead"
1821 2011-06-19 16:23:51 <CorvusCorax> you calculate the next block already while everyone calculates a block that you already have
1822 2011-06-19 16:24:17 Teslah has joined
1823 2011-06-19 16:24:21 <CorvusCorax> granted this whole discussion is mute - unless anyone gets "near 50% hash power) anyway
1824 2011-06-19 16:24:23 hahuang65 has joined
1825 2011-06-19 16:24:55 <CorvusCorax> but I think its possible to exploit things below 50% already, u don't need to have >50%, 20% might be enough to exploit it
1826 2011-06-19 16:25:18 <CorvusCorax> granted also, if everyone does that, the network breaks
1827 2011-06-19 16:25:51 <gmaxwell> You're depending on assumptions here that aren't reasonable.
1828 2011-06-19 16:26:04 <CorvusCorax> I hope so
1829 2011-06-19 16:26:24 <CorvusCorax> the best thing that can happen here is that you nproof to me that I'm wrong ;)
1830 2011-06-19 16:26:30 <gmaxwell> For example, you're assuming that you'll be able to start announcing _later_ than someone else and still beat them to announcing.
1831 2011-06-19 16:26:46 <CorvusCorax> yes.
1832 2011-06-19 16:27:02 <CorvusCorax> thats under the assumption that an announcement needs time to propagate through thenet
1833 2011-06-19 16:27:25 <gmaxwell> No, it's an assumption that you have way better connectivity than everyone else.
1834 2011-06-19 16:27:40 <gmaxwell> (since your competing announcement also needs time to propagate)
1835 2011-06-19 16:27:45 Zarutian has joined
1836 2011-06-19 16:28:27 <CorvusCorax> in a way yes
1837 2011-06-19 16:29:11 <CorvusCorax> but you don't need betzter connectivity than everyone else, since you can "seed" that competing block from hopefully more points in the net than the nodes that already know of the competing block are connected to
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1839 2011-06-19 16:30:01 <CorvusCorax> to calculate that through I'd need a detailed network map that includes connectivity. how many nodes in average is each node from each other node and so on
1840 2011-06-19 16:30:12 <gmaxwell> It's still assuming most other miners are better connected to you than they are to each other.
1841 2011-06-19 16:30:28 <CorvusCorax> whats the average number of simultaneous connection, whats the average latency when propagating, ...
1842 2011-06-19 16:31:36 <CorvusCorax> gmaxwell, thats why your "pool client" is made into a bitcoin network node - your pool becomes like a botnet that interweaves as tightly as possible with the existoing bitcoin network to maximize this connectivity
1843 2011-06-19 16:31:48 <gmaxwell> It's reasonable to assume that all major miners are directly connected to each other.
1844 2011-06-19 16:31:49 <CorvusCorax> thats the entire point in the first and second rule
1845 2011-06-19 16:31:56 cronopio has quit (Quit: leaving)
1846 2011-06-19 16:32:16 <CorvusCorax> inthat case the approach doesn't work
1847 2011-06-19 16:32:24 <gmaxwell> (and would be especially reasonable to assume that if someone started deploying a pool botnet node)
1848 2011-06-19 16:32:39 andzej has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1849 2011-06-19 16:32:50 oozyburglar has joined
1850 2011-06-19 16:33:01 <CorvusCorax> true, it would be the obvious countermeasure
1851 2011-06-19 16:33:47 <gmaxwell> It's already the case that miners are directly addnode-ing other miners. It's not fully connected at this point, because no one has had a big reason to make a special effort at it
1852 2011-06-19 16:33:55 <CorvusCorax> aside from trying to identify those nodes somehow and not telling them the latest blocks, so they "hear" of them last, only after most of the net already did
1853 2011-06-19 16:34:29 <gmaxwell> It doesn't matter what most of the network heard, it matters what most of the hash power has heard.
1854 2011-06-19 16:34:36 <CorvusCorax> true
1855 2011-06-19 16:35:07 neversleep has joined
1856 2011-06-19 16:35:07 <gmaxwell> And anyone who has less than 50% is self-interested at preventing this game from being performed by someone else.
1857 2011-06-19 16:35:16 Guest45318 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1858 2011-06-19 16:35:26 <CorvusCorax> good point
1859 2011-06-19 16:36:06 <sipa> ius: how do i credit you?
1860 2011-06-19 16:37:30 MrSam has joined
1861 2011-06-19 16:37:36 T_X has joined
1862 2011-06-19 16:37:41 <MrSam> hi
1863 2011-06-19 16:37:51 <MrSam> could anyone spare some coins on testnet ?
1864 2011-06-19 16:38:40 <denisx> MrSam: sure, how many?
1865 2011-06-19 16:39:03 <MrSam> maybe 5 ? i'm mining for a while now at 30mhash
1866 2011-06-19 16:39:13 <denisx> ok
1867 2011-06-19 16:39:23 <MrSam> $./bitcoind getnewaddress
1868 2011-06-19 16:39:23 <MrSam> n12nHiJ8vyo138UKRsptciYFHDBrNoqcM1
1869 2011-06-19 16:39:54 <MrSam> i see that the $./bitcoind getnewaddress
1870 2011-06-19 16:39:54 <MrSam> n12nHiJ8vyo138UKRsptciYFHDBrNoqcM1
1871 2011-06-19 16:39:55 <MrSam> grr
1872 2011-06-19 16:40:06 <MrSam> i see that the difficulty is now 33.05231802
1873 2011-06-19 16:40:10 <denisx> MrSam: f0d2b0af19eca8519cd14a20f89e4b0de3d11c3468809df001ad7ffbd358e936
1874 2011-06-19 16:40:13 <MrSam> thx
1875 2011-06-19 16:40:42 <MrSam> 50, cool
1876 2011-06-19 16:40:55 <denisx> I have more than 1000
1877 2011-06-19 16:41:08 <MrSam> why is the difficulty so high ?
1878 2011-06-19 16:41:19 <MrSam> if it's testnet, easy cpu mining should be possible, no ?
1879 2011-06-19 16:41:19 <denisx> it isnt high
1880 2011-06-19 16:41:24 <denisx> the round before it was 77
1881 2011-06-19 16:41:37 <sipa> use testnet in a box
1882 2011-06-19 16:41:42 lumos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1883 2011-06-19 16:44:45 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
1884 2011-06-19 16:45:00 <MrSam> even better
1885 2011-06-19 16:45:03 <MrSam> thanks sipa
1886 2011-06-19 16:45:18 lumos has joined
1887 2011-06-19 16:45:30 <redshark1802> iz: i found this thread on the official forum http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11043.0 so it is possible to retrieve the blockhash from the share http://pastebin.com/y0sMZSbi . i dont mean to be rude, just inform you ;)
1888 2011-06-19 16:46:04 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1889 2011-06-19 16:47:05 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1890 2011-06-19 16:47:24 <iz> redshark1802: that will give you the blockID (aka the hash value that secures it), but that won't tell you the block number, unless you go look that up on blockexplorer or in your own blockchain
1891 2011-06-19 16:47:43 Mononofu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1892 2011-06-19 16:48:33 <redshark1802> iz: yes
1893 2011-06-19 16:48:51 <redshark1802> thats what i was looking for :)
1894 2011-06-19 16:48:53 <iz> redshark1802: oh, is that what you wanted in the first place? the block hash? not the block number?
1895 2011-06-19 16:49:19 <sipa> ;;later tell ius how do i credit you in a patch
1896 2011-06-19 16:49:20 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1897 2011-06-19 16:49:38 sabalaba has joined
1898 2011-06-19 16:50:07 <Wuked> iz: you can't get the block number from the blockhash
1899 2011-06-19 16:50:17 <Wuked> unless you follow the chain all the way back
1900 2011-06-19 16:50:22 <Wuked> which you can do if you want
1901 2011-06-19 16:50:25 <iz> redshark1802: ah.. i told you 08:45 < iz> redshark1802: what information do you want? the solution field is the block header the miner hashed to get the share (with padding) :: i guess when you kept asking about the block number, i figured you wanted something totally different
1902 2011-06-19 16:50:39 <iz> Wuked: yeah, that's what i was telling redshark1802 earlier
1903 2011-06-19 16:50:53 <Wuked> different places have different block numbers anyway
1904 2011-06-19 16:51:09 <Wuked> and imo the block number isn't that important ?
1905 2011-06-19 16:51:16 <Wuked> I just copy it from blockexplorer
1906 2011-06-19 16:51:19 <Wuked> (if it's up ;)
1907 2011-06-19 16:51:20 <Wuked> )
1908 2011-06-19 16:51:26 <redshark1802> iz: sorry for the misunderstanding. but my english is getting better :). now i can use it with http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=724.0
1909 2011-06-19 16:51:31 <iz> yeah, it's not.. what you really want to keep track of is a count of blocks YOU have solved
1910 2011-06-19 16:52:17 <iz> redshark1802: yeah, it's tricky because there are endian byte swaps you need to do also.. thanks for that forum link though, that's a useful reference
1911 2011-06-19 16:52:28 graykicksass has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1912 2011-06-19 16:53:15 <redshark1802> iz: now i need to figure out how to use the ruby programm. ruby is totally new to me. no problem ;)
1913 2011-06-19 16:53:57 Sebastan has left ()
1914 2011-06-19 16:55:58 Guest3955 is now known as robin
1915 2011-06-19 16:56:01 Incitatus has joined
1916 2011-06-19 16:56:28 robin is now known as Guest6729
1917 2011-06-19 16:57:43 karnac has joined
1918 2011-06-19 16:59:42 BlueMatt has joined
1919 2011-06-19 17:01:41 <ius> sipa: by nick is fine
1920 2011-06-19 17:02:30 Mononofu has joined
1921 2011-06-19 17:03:03 <Wuked> redshark1802: are you trying to setup the opensource ruby pool miner by davout, or soemthing else ?
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1923 2011-06-19 17:04:03 Guest6729 is now known as robin_
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1926 2011-06-19 17:05:46 <MrSam> hmm
1927 2011-06-19 17:06:01 <MrSam> no transaction fee's on testnet/testnetinabox ?
1928 2011-06-19 17:06:15 <MrSam> i mean transactions added to a found block
1929 2011-06-19 17:06:55 <sipa> ?
1930 2011-06-19 17:07:04 <sipa> if you do a transaction with a fee, the fee will go to the miner
1931 2011-06-19 17:07:10 karnac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1932 2011-06-19 17:07:10 <sipa> that's the same in testnet and realnet
1933 2011-06-19 17:07:26 karnac has joined
1934 2011-06-19 17:08:07 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1935 2011-06-19 17:08:16 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1936 2011-06-19 17:08:52 da2ce7 has joined
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1938 2011-06-19 17:11:16 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1939 2011-06-19 17:11:41 d1234 has joined
1940 2011-06-19 17:13:25 <BlueMatt> sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/331
1941 2011-06-19 17:13:36 <BlueMatt> atleast airplane time is properly spent :)
1942 2011-06-19 17:15:47 danbri has joined
1943 2011-06-19 17:15:49 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Daniel Folkinshteyn * ra976c4b51a5e supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor/OTCWebsite/ (createticker.py getexchangerates.py): OTCWebsite: move google currency exchange retrieval off to separate job http://tinyurl.com/3ghuw4o
1944 2011-06-19 17:15:54 TheZimm has quit (Quit: When will we learn?)
1945 2011-06-19 17:16:20 Incitatus has joined
1946 2011-06-19 17:19:00 redshark1802 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1947 2011-06-19 17:19:32 redshark1802 has joined
1948 2011-06-19 17:19:52 pusle has joined
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1950 2011-06-19 17:22:07 ultrixx has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1951 2011-06-19 17:22:38 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
1952 2011-06-19 17:22:54 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":18.8766,"low":15.2,"vol":57323,"buy":15.2,"sell":16,"last":17.51}}
1953 2011-06-19 17:23:25 fabianhjr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1954 2011-06-19 17:24:14 <ericmock> what're the thoughts on the reference bitcoin client still having the option to mine?
1955 2011-06-19 17:24:50 <ericmock> seems like it's worthless for the average user to mine at this point and dedicated mining programs make more sense, no?
1956 2011-06-19 17:24:54 <Diablo-D3> ericmock: it shouldnt
1957 2011-06-19 17:24:59 <Diablo-D3> cpu mining is pointless
1958 2011-06-19 17:25:00 kratosk has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1959 2011-06-19 17:25:03 wiedi has joined
1960 2011-06-19 17:25:57 <ericmock> I was going to just leave the UI for starting the miner out of the Cocoa build I have
1961 2011-06-19 17:26:53 <ericmock> the other option is to embed a dedicated miner (Diablo-D3) but I'm not sure that makes sense either.
1962 2011-06-19 17:27:07 <Diablo-D3> no
1963 2011-06-19 17:27:21 <Diablo-D3> what it really needs is, in the prefs box, the json rpc shit
1964 2011-06-19 17:27:28 <Diablo-D3> so you can turn it on and set username and password
1965 2011-06-19 17:27:54 <ericmock> oh, the stuff that's greyed out in the Wx/Mac build?
1966 2011-06-19 17:28:08 d1234 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1967 2011-06-19 17:28:19 <Diablo-D3> I havent seen it in any build
1968 2011-06-19 17:28:26 <Diablo-D3> I'd like to see that happen, though
1969 2011-06-19 17:28:39 <ericmock> oh... I have only used the one build
1970 2011-06-19 17:28:49 d1234 has joined
1971 2011-06-19 17:28:51 <ericmock> figured it was an OSX issue
1972 2011-06-19 17:28:53 <Diablo-D3> Im on linux, btw
1973 2011-06-19 17:29:00 <Diablo-D3> no OS currently has that stuff afiak
1974 2011-06-19 17:29:09 <ericmock> are those features in the code?
1975 2011-06-19 17:29:10 <Diablo-D3> and its a pita to keep talking idiots through setting up bitcoin.conf
1976 2011-06-19 17:29:15 <Diablo-D3> the features are, yes
1977 2011-06-19 17:29:26 <Diablo-D3> theres just nothing in the prefs box for it
1978 2011-06-19 17:29:29 <ericmock> okay, so it just needs wired to the UI, eh?
1979 2011-06-19 17:29:41 <ericmock> okay... that goes on the TODO list
1980 2011-06-19 17:29:57 <Diablo-D3> you should prod gavin about it
1981 2011-06-19 17:30:14 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1982 2011-06-19 17:30:24 <ericmock> but sorry, I abandoned linux years ago ;-)
1983 2011-06-19 17:30:46 <ericmock> although I'm sure there are plenty of folks better equipped than me to at it to the linux client
1984 2011-06-19 17:30:59 Sebastan has joined
1985 2011-06-19 17:31:27 <d1234> ;;bc,stats
1986 2011-06-19 17:31:55 <BlueMatt> ericmock: in recent versions, all gui references to mining have been removed
1987 2011-06-19 17:32:24 <BlueMatt> only via cli -gen command can you in-client cpu mine
1988 2011-06-19 17:32:24 <BlueMatt> though that might be removed also
1989 2011-06-19 17:32:44 <gribble> Current Blocks: 131879 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 1176 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 19 hours, 29 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1232519.44134491
1990 2011-06-19 17:32:48 <ericmock> ah, okay... I hadn't really looked at the very latest builds
1991 2011-06-19 17:33:01 Lenovo01 has joined
1992 2011-06-19 17:33:19 <MrSam> hmm
1993 2011-06-19 17:33:23 <MrSam> bitcoin market moving ?
1994 2011-06-19 17:33:41 <ericmock> someone's taking a massive dump
1995 2011-06-19 17:34:01 <copumpkin> yeah, like crazy
1996 2011-06-19 17:34:12 germanMNY has joined
1997 2011-06-19 17:34:32 <ericmock> and dwolla still has processed my transfer...
1998 2011-06-19 17:34:43 <acfrazier> >mfw I sold at $17 shortly before this happened
1999 2011-06-19 17:34:54 <copumpkin> same :P
2000 2011-06-19 17:35:12 <MrSam> same :P
2001 2011-06-19 17:35:22 <MrSam> i'm looking to buy at 12 but it wont take my order
2002 2011-06-19 17:35:24 <Ycros> acfrazier: I can't see, it's all text
2003 2011-06-19 17:35:47 * ericmock talked his kids into buying his coins at 30 ;-)
2004 2011-06-19 17:36:05 <jeremias> :D
2005 2011-06-19 17:36:12 <ericmock> if they're going to learn about getting scammed it might as well be from their dad
2006 2011-06-19 17:36:17 <MrSam> lol
2007 2011-06-19 17:36:17 <ericmock> and it is Father's Day
2008 2011-06-19 17:36:26 <MrSam> you better sell them testnet coins then
2009 2011-06-19 17:36:28 <jeremias> you sold them those bitcoins?
2010 2011-06-19 17:37:23 Lenovo01 has quit (Client Quit)
2011 2011-06-19 17:37:41 nathan7 is now known as superacid
2012 2011-06-19 17:37:46 d1234 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2013 2011-06-19 17:37:49 <MrSam> isn't there some kind of trading suspend like in the real stock market ?
2014 2011-06-19 17:37:54 Lenovo01 has joined
2015 2011-06-19 17:37:58 <Ycros> MrSam: ha ha ha ha haha
2016 2011-06-19 17:38:04 <ericmock> yea, right
2017 2011-06-19 17:38:05 <ersi> MrSam: Hah, made my day
2018 2011-06-19 17:38:13 <MrSam> i'm new here , don't shoot me :)
2019 2011-06-19 17:38:23 <Ycros> MrSam: this is completely unregulated
2020 2011-06-19 17:38:23 d1234 has joined
2021 2011-06-19 17:38:24 <ericmock> someone get the ddos on mtgox going.
2022 2011-06-19 17:38:24 <ersi> This isn't NY SE
2023 2011-06-19 17:38:27 <Ycros> anyone can do anything
2024 2011-06-19 17:38:32 <TD> it's not unregulated
2025 2011-06-19 17:38:34 <ericmock> that's how /we/ suspend trading
2026 2011-06-19 17:38:38 superacid is now known as nathan7
2027 2011-06-19 17:38:48 <TD> mt gox is following the AML regs, for example (or at least, making a good effort)
2028 2011-06-19 17:38:59 <TD> it wouldn't surprise me if mark implements automatic trading suspension at some point
2029 2011-06-19 17:39:01 <Ycros> TD: yes, but they don't have to
2030 2011-06-19 17:39:07 <Ycros> *shrug*
2031 2011-06-19 17:39:10 <TD> right now tibanne is completely smacked with the huge growth
2032 2011-06-19 17:39:12 <TD> don't have to what?
2033 2011-06-19 17:39:15 <ersi> Wonder if MtGox can only handle 1 order at the time >_>
2034 2011-06-19 17:39:41 <Ycros> TD: follow any sort of regulations...
2035 2011-06-19 17:39:51 <TD> sure it does
2036 2011-06-19 17:39:55 <Ycros> TD: my point is anyone can start an exchange
2037 2011-06-19 17:39:55 <TD> it's a legally incorporated japanese company
2038 2011-06-19 17:39:57 pusle has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2039 2011-06-19 17:39:59 <ericmock> just look at it this way, if someone is cashing out then others have a buying opportunity
2040 2011-06-19 17:40:11 <Ycros> TD: sure, but there are plenty of countries you could run an exchange in :)
2041 2011-06-19 17:40:18 <TD> you can't really make an exchange that works like Mt Gox that's unregulated
2042 2011-06-19 17:40:21 <ersi> Funny how people seem to forget that laws and regulations still apply.
2043 2011-06-19 17:40:25 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2044 2011-06-19 17:40:29 <TD> you have to interact with the banking network
2045 2011-06-19 17:40:41 <TD> unless your exchange only deals with bitcoins for {some other non-state backed digital currency}
2046 2011-06-19 17:40:50 <Ycros> or peanuts
2047 2011-06-19 17:40:58 <MrSam> but the way i see it here
2048 2011-06-19 17:41:07 <ersi> TD: But but! Laws don't apply on the Internet!
2049 2011-06-19 17:41:10 <MrSam> is that you could now cash out on your bitcoins on another exchange
2050 2011-06-19 17:41:13 <ersi> derpa derpeti derp
2051 2011-06-19 17:41:14 <TD> heh
2052 2011-06-19 17:41:16 <MrSam> and buy back on mtgox at lower price ?
2053 2011-06-19 17:41:33 <ericmock> MrSam: the market is still small enough to be manipulated
2054 2011-06-19 17:41:42 <ersi> Indeed.
2055 2011-06-19 17:42:03 <ersi> It's very small. But it's huge in comparison to earlier trends (d'uh)
2056 2011-06-19 17:42:08 <MrSam> well, i tend to look at these evens as opportunities
2057 2011-06-19 17:42:14 * ericmock has been trying to convince his buddies to make a 'mutual fund' to manipulate the market ;-)
2058 2011-06-19 17:42:40 pensan has joined
2059 2011-06-19 17:43:26 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2060 2011-06-19 17:43:47 m00p has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2061 2011-06-19 17:44:14 datagutt has joined
2062 2011-06-19 17:44:14 datagutt has quit (Changing host)
2063 2011-06-19 17:44:14 datagutt has joined
2064 2011-06-19 17:45:35 <MrSam> has this happened before ?
2065 2011-06-19 17:45:35 machine1 has joined
2066 2011-06-19 17:45:40 <machine1> Alert: Bitcoin CIA Operation Imploding 10.00 PANIC http://members.beforeitsnews.com/story/730/098/Alert:_Bitcoin_CIA_Operation_Imploding_10.00_PANIC.html
2067 2011-06-19 17:45:41 <MrSam> flash crash type events ?
2068 2011-06-19 17:45:45 <Optimo> 7?
2069 2011-06-19 17:46:00 <ericmock> MrSam: yea
2070 2011-06-19 17:46:02 torsthaldo has joined
2071 2011-06-19 17:46:11 <ericmock> but maybe not this much
2072 2011-06-19 17:46:26 <MrSam> so what happens, big sellof, wide buy/sell spread, and buying returns when selling stops ?
2073 2011-06-19 17:47:49 ar4s has joined
2074 2011-06-19 17:47:58 <ersi> Selling = Buying
2075 2011-06-19 17:48:03 <MrSam> hmm
2076 2011-06-19 17:48:05 <MrSam> 4,9
2077 2011-06-19 17:48:06 <ersi> They don't happen seperatly dude
2078 2011-06-19 17:48:17 Obehsh has joined
2079 2011-06-19 17:48:54 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2080 2011-06-19 17:49:27 torsthaldo_ has joined
2081 2011-06-19 17:49:28 ezl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2082 2011-06-19 17:49:38 molecular has joined
2083 2011-06-19 17:50:21 <underscor> ;;bc,mtgoxlast
2084 2011-06-19 17:50:30 <copumpkin> underscor: < 2 :P
2085 2011-06-19 17:50:34 <underscor> haha
2086 2011-06-19 17:50:36 * ersi pokes underscor
2087 2011-06-19 17:50:44 <underscor> hey Eremes
2088 2011-06-19 17:50:45 <underscor> er
2089 2011-06-19 17:50:46 torsthaldo__ has joined
2090 2011-06-19 17:50:47 <underscor> tab fail
2091 2011-06-19 17:50:49 <underscor> ersi*
2092 2011-06-19 17:50:50 <ersi> :D
2093 2011-06-19 17:50:55 <ersi> Everyone! Panic sell!
2094 2011-06-19 17:51:01 <ersi> Quick!
2095 2011-06-19 17:51:07 <underscor> Holy fucking sht the market just bottomed out
2096 2011-06-19 17:51:08 <underscor> shit*
2097 2011-06-19 17:51:13 torsthaldo__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2098 2011-06-19 17:51:14 torsthaldo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2099 2011-06-19 17:51:31 Taveren93HGK has joined
2100 2011-06-19 17:51:57 <gribble> Error: I tried to send you an empty message.
2101 2011-06-19 17:52:00 <davex__> wow, this seller is just not very smart.
2102 2011-06-19 17:52:24 <ersi> Maybe this person doesn't care what he'll get
2103 2011-06-19 17:52:25 <ericmock> someone's girlfriend/wife decided they wanted to buy a house
2104 2011-06-19 17:52:47 <underscor> Is there a streaming trade channel?
2105 2011-06-19 17:52:56 <davex__> shit, wish i had left that bit .30 bid i put out there in november
2106 2011-06-19 17:52:58 kcsrnd has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2107 2011-06-19 17:52:59 lessPlastic has joined
2108 2011-06-19 17:53:01 <BlueMatt> yea and they sold a ton and then boom panic
2109 2011-06-19 17:53:16 <MrSam> if only my buy order would go trough
2110 2011-06-19 17:53:17 <ericmock> not sure it's a panic at this point
2111 2011-06-19 17:53:20 blueadept has joined
2112 2011-06-19 17:53:21 <ersi> Fucking pantsies
2113 2011-06-19 17:53:24 <ericmock> people can't even place orders
2114 2011-06-19 17:54:09 kcsrnd has joined
2115 2011-06-19 17:54:31 <underscor> Fucking dwolla withdrawl times
2116 2011-06-19 17:54:45 <ersi> ericmock: Surely *some* can.
2117 2011-06-19 17:54:54 <ersi> But far from all of us
2118 2011-06-19 17:54:58 <TommyBoy3G> what just happened?
2119 2011-06-19 17:55:03 <ersi> Hah, I placed my order
2120 2011-06-19 17:55:04 <ericmock> I think it's one person just dumping...
2121 2011-06-19 17:55:05 <ersi> Win
2122 2011-06-19 17:55:07 <davex__> a guy wiped out all the bids.
2123 2011-06-19 17:55:07 <underscor> Did it just climb again?
2124 2011-06-19 17:55:14 <TommyBoy3G> huh
2125 2011-06-19 17:55:19 <ericmock> apparently not much selling on otc (although I wouldn't know)
2126 2011-06-19 17:55:23 <underscor> <gribble> Jun19 17:54:03 mtgox 2.9060 @ 14.149 USD
2127 2011-06-19 17:55:23 <underscor> <gribble> Jun19 17:54:03 mtgox 0.0360 @ 14.1491 USD
2128 2011-06-19 17:55:23 <underscor> <gribble> Jun19 17:54:03 mtgox 7.0580 @ 14.1619 USD
2129 2011-06-19 17:56:28 <ersi> Hm, where's that read out from gribble?
2130 2011-06-19 17:56:30 <davex__> maybe it's mystery miner from back in march
2131 2011-06-19 17:56:49 <blueadept> ;;bc,mtgox
2132 2011-06-19 17:57:14 <ersi> Yeah, perhaps.
2133 2011-06-19 17:57:22 <underscor> ersi: #bitcoin-market
2134 2011-06-19 17:57:26 <ersi> Oh yeah
2135 2011-06-19 17:57:43 <underscor> It's a bit of a noisy channe
2136 2011-06-19 17:57:45 <underscor> l
2137 2011-06-19 17:58:18 <ersi> Uhm, Jun08?
2138 2011-06-19 17:58:39 <underscor> That's weird
2139 2011-06-19 17:58:43 <ericmock> seems like a lot of RUB trading...
2140 2011-06-19 17:58:48 <iz> yeah
2141 2011-06-19 17:58:53 <underscor> Something screwey with btcex's feed probably
2142 2011-06-19 17:58:55 <ersi> But that's 1-2 weeks ago
2143 2011-06-19 17:59:24 <underscor> Isn't that the bid place date?
2144 2011-06-19 17:59:41 <underscor> (Like, a bunch of stuff just got filled?)
2145 2011-06-19 18:00:36 <ersi> Ah
2146 2011-06-19 18:01:10 <davex__> hmm, looks like one of those trades was 260,000 bitcoins for $.01
2147 2011-06-19 18:01:12 <gribble> Too many connections
2148 2011-06-19 18:01:25 <ericmock> awesome: http://snapplr.com/1930
2149 2011-06-19 18:01:30 <MrSam> :P
2150 2011-06-19 18:01:32 <BlueMatt> daveparrish: lucky bastard, instant millionare
2151 2011-06-19 18:01:52 <Taveren93HGK> stolen bitcoins, likely
2152 2011-06-19 18:01:59 <BlueMatt> sorry, meant davex__
2153 2011-06-19 18:02:19 <davex__> those have got to weigh on the market for awhile while new instant millionaire liquidates.
2154 2011-06-19 18:02:21 * BlueMatt is waiting for the lulzsec post about how they just trolled all of bitcoin with the bitcoins they stole
2155 2011-06-19 18:05:47 <Taveren93HGK> BlueMatt - they've already DONE that
2156 2011-06-19 18:06:01 Teslah has joined
2157 2011-06-19 18:06:02 apotek has joined
2158 2011-06-19 18:06:12 apotek has left ()
2159 2011-06-19 18:06:29 <davex__> or maybe mtgox data feed is lying
2160 2011-06-19 18:07:45 <MrSam> hmm
2161 2011-06-19 18:07:52 <upb> anyone recorded that feed ?
2162 2011-06-19 18:07:55 <MrSam> how's that for a comission rate
2163 2011-06-19 18:08:01 <upb> i saw 200k+ ask at 0.01
2164 2011-06-19 18:08:03 <davex__> yeah i have it
2165 2011-06-19 18:09:32 <MrSam> so back to dev
2166 2011-06-19 18:09:44 <MrSam> in the bitcoin in a box thing
2167 2011-06-19 18:09:45 <TD> hey BlueMatt
2168 2011-06-19 18:09:53 <MrSam> i should get confirmations right ?
2169 2011-06-19 18:09:54 <BlueMatt> hi TD
2170 2011-06-19 18:09:55 <BlueMatt> whats up?
2171 2011-06-19 18:09:56 gim has joined
2172 2011-06-19 18:10:03 <BlueMatt> aside from the market...holy shit
2173 2011-06-19 18:10:04 <TD> i'm researching more solutions to the post-inflation security issue
2174 2011-06-19 18:10:06 <ericmock> does Clark Moody hang out here?
2175 2011-06-19 18:10:08 <TD> what happened to the market?
2176 2011-06-19 18:10:18 <ersi> It's fucking itself over :)
2177 2011-06-19 18:10:29 <TD> a crash?
2178 2011-06-19 18:10:37 <upb> davex__: dcc ?:P
2179 2011-06-19 18:10:49 <ericmock> TD: it hit 0.01
2180 2011-06-19 18:10:50 <ersi> Well, the panic seems to be spreading
2181 2011-06-19 18:10:58 Joric has joined
2182 2011-06-19 18:11:03 <TD> on mtgox? i see 16:1 as the last closing price
2183 2011-06-19 18:11:11 <BlueMatt> TD: it hit 0.01 just now
2184 2011-06-19 18:11:12 <ericmock> and bounced
2185 2011-06-19 18:11:22 <TD> so it did
2186 2011-06-19 18:11:29 <BlueMatt> some guy got some ridiculous amount at 0.01
2187 2011-06-19 18:11:38 apsoa has joined
2188 2011-06-19 18:11:52 <TD> how did that happen? some exploit? or just a huge trade?
2189 2011-06-19 18:12:04 <TD> for some reason i can't see the trade data page on mtgox
2190 2011-06-19 18:12:09 * ericmock needs to leave some USD in mtgox and some open buy orders at ridiculously low rates
2191 2011-06-19 18:12:23 <BlueMatt> just a massive trade afawk
2192 2011-06-19 18:12:26 <MrSam> :) even selling is good
2193 2011-06-19 18:12:27 <ericmock> TD: I like http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/order-book/#
2194 2011-06-19 18:12:36 kratosk has joined
2195 2011-06-19 18:12:51 <MrSam> i bought some at 5 that i'm selling for 17 now
2196 2011-06-19 18:12:59 <BlueMatt> someone wanted to troll
2197 2011-06-19 18:13:02 <TD> heh
2198 2011-06-19 18:13:02 <davex__> upb, dunno if dcc works
2199 2011-06-19 18:13:04 <TD> well whatever
2200 2011-06-19 18:13:20 <TD> the number of trades is crazy
2201 2011-06-19 18:13:23 <TD> just bots playing off each other
2202 2011-06-19 18:13:24 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, someone ran through the order book
2203 2011-06-19 18:13:25 <bitanarchy> large bitcoin dimps are going on
2204 2011-06-19 18:13:25 <ericmock> I wish I had some USD in the system...
2205 2011-06-19 18:13:25 <phantomcircuit> wat
2206 2011-06-19 18:13:28 <phantomcircuit> holy shit
2207 2011-06-19 18:13:52 <ersi> M-m-monster kill
2208 2011-06-19 18:14:00 <Blitzboom_> -_-
2209 2011-06-19 18:14:50 d1234 has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
2210 2011-06-19 18:14:55 <TD> i wonder if satoshi is cashing out?
2211 2011-06-19 18:14:58 <TD> some early blocks were spent
2212 2011-06-19 18:15:11 blishchrot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2213 2011-06-19 18:15:15 d1234 has joined
2214 2011-06-19 18:15:15 <Blitzboom_> why the FUCK does this happen when iâm asleep?
2215 2011-06-19 18:15:19 <BlueMatt> at 0.01 I think satoshi is smarter than that
2216 2011-06-19 18:15:22 JakeMates has joined
2217 2011-06-19 18:15:31 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom_: why the fuck does it happen when Im taking a shower?
2218 2011-06-19 18:15:39 <ericmock> BlueMatt: not if you have something to pay for...
2219 2011-06-19 18:15:39 <Blitzboom_> Jun19 17:15:36 mtgox 3,000.0000 @ 0.011 USD
2220 2011-06-19 18:15:41 <Blitzboom_> -_-
2221 2011-06-19 18:15:47 <Blitzboom_> this is bullshit
2222 2011-06-19 18:15:51 <TD> this stuff is just a distraction anyway
2223 2011-06-19 18:15:58 <MrSam> jep
2224 2011-06-19 18:16:08 <ericmock> you never know why people might sell and seemingly stupidly low prices
2225 2011-06-19 18:16:08 <MrSam> so i'm not getting confirmations on my testnet in a box setup :P
2226 2011-06-19 18:16:31 <TD> obviously they didn't care what they got, they just wanted to cash out ASAP
2227 2011-06-19 18:16:38 <TD> there might be all kinds of reasons for that
2228 2011-06-19 18:16:46 <jeremias> for lulz?
2229 2011-06-19 18:16:47 <TD> but the price of bitcoin hasn't been connected to the fundamentals for some time, imho
2230 2011-06-19 18:16:48 <wasabi1> still struggling with parsing and hashing the data from the JSON API. Sigh.
2231 2011-06-19 18:16:56 <TD> jeremias: like, they need dollars right now, for some reason
2232 2011-06-19 18:17:11 <BlueMatt> lulzsec trolling bitcoin after stealing the couple thousand
2233 2011-06-19 18:17:22 <TD> BlueMatt: so, i'm investigating dominant assurance contracts
2234 2011-06-19 18:17:35 <jeremias> or the feds trying to inject distrust in bitcoin
2235 2011-06-19 18:17:42 <TD> as a way to fund network security after inflation, by solving the free rider problem
2236 2011-06-19 18:17:46 <BlueMatt> TD: you mean x/y sigs?
2237 2011-06-19 18:17:49 <TD> no
2238 2011-06-19 18:17:52 <TD> not exactly
2239 2011-06-19 18:17:52 <BlueMatt> oh wait nvm
2240 2011-06-19 18:18:20 <TD> a dominant assurance contract is a way for private groups to fund public goods (ie, something that is free to all and people cannot be excluded from, like air or national defence or music)
2241 2011-06-19 18:18:27 <TD> http://mason.gmu.edu/~atabarro/PrivateProvision.pdf
2242 2011-06-19 18:18:48 <BlueMatt> ah, yes ok...just googled them :)
2243 2011-06-19 18:18:53 <TD> Abstract. Many types of public goods can be produced privately by proï¬t seeking entrepreneurs using a modiï¬ed form of assurance contract, called a dominant assurance contract. I model the dominant assurance contract as a game and show that the pure strategy equilibrium has agents contributing to the public good as a dominant strategy. The game is also modelled under incomplete information as a Bayesian-Nash game"
2244 2011-06-19 18:18:57 * BlueMatt prides himself on seeming smart by always googling first :)
2245 2011-06-19 18:19:01 <TD> i think this could be a very important paper for bitcoin
2246 2011-06-19 18:19:06 <BlueMatt> not that I am
2247 2011-06-19 18:19:16 <TD> DACs can be implemented, i think, entirely with the bitcoin contracts framework
2248 2011-06-19 18:19:20 llama has joined
2249 2011-06-19 18:19:38 <TD> i need to do more research. but i'm very excited by this possibility. my only concern is that the concept is quite new (1996)
2250 2011-06-19 18:19:49 <TD> i'm not sure it's been thoroughly studied by other economists enough
2251 2011-06-19 18:20:25 nealmcb has joined
2252 2011-06-19 18:20:50 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
2253 2011-06-19 18:20:56 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
2254 2011-06-19 18:20:56 Blitzboom has joined
2255 2011-06-19 18:21:24 <BlueMatt> TD: Im not entirely clear on how it actually provides market-failing goods
2256 2011-06-19 18:21:25 <ericmock> wow! that paper wasn't published for two years after it was accepted...
2257 2011-06-19 18:21:47 <ericmock> _Public Choice_ must have had a huge backlog
2258 2011-06-19 18:21:54 <BlueMatt> ah, nvm
2259 2011-06-19 18:22:02 * BlueMatt was reading wikipedia...bad source
2260 2011-06-19 18:22:27 soossii has joined
2261 2011-06-19 18:22:51 * diki thinks forum is down
2262 2011-06-19 18:23:03 <ersi> Heh, what a successful mayham
2263 2011-06-19 18:23:12 JakeMates has quit (Quit: JakeMates)
2264 2011-06-19 18:23:20 <ersi> Well played, who ever you are.
2265 2011-06-19 18:23:38 <TD> i wonder why the order book rebuilt itself almost immediately
2266 2011-06-19 18:23:42 <TD> where are these orders coming from?
2267 2011-06-19 18:23:44 llama has quit (Client Quit)
2268 2011-06-19 18:24:03 llama has joined
2269 2011-06-19 18:24:18 <BlueMatt> TD: and you think such assurance contracts can provide mining?
2270 2011-06-19 18:24:39 <TD> maybe. more research is needed. the author of the paper is a professional/academic economist, and asserts that it is so
2271 2011-06-19 18:24:44 dvide has joined
2272 2011-06-19 18:25:19 <TD> DACs can be modelled as a series of transactions, which are prepared offline
2273 2011-06-19 18:25:32 larsivi has joined
2274 2011-06-19 18:25:32 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2275 2011-06-19 18:25:35 <ersi> 1KLahQtqDNAXvrjNyfvgSBtAhwco5ZxLp4 432109 BTC
2276 2011-06-19 18:25:36 <ersi> neat
2277 2011-06-19 18:25:38 JakeMates has joined
2278 2011-06-19 18:25:48 <TD> the first, the contract, has as an output a fixed, large amount of currency
2279 2011-06-19 18:25:51 Granttt has joined
2280 2011-06-19 18:25:56 <TD> the inputs are left blank
2281 2011-06-19 18:26:13 manifold_ has joined
2282 2011-06-19 18:26:20 Perpetuum has joined
2283 2011-06-19 18:26:33 <TD> a server run by the entrepreneur vends a partially complete/signed transaction in which one input is owned by one contributor
2284 2011-06-19 18:26:57 <TD> it also vends the mining incentives, a series of transactions that consist purely of fees
2285 2011-06-19 18:26:58 <upb> davex__: nah it didnt :/
2286 2011-06-19 18:27:18 <TD> each mining incentive has a lock time specified as a block index, one for each index in a sequence beginning at a pre-agreed time (say, a week in the future)
2287 2011-06-19 18:27:23 MDrollette has joined
2288 2011-06-19 18:27:29 tny000 has joined
2289 2011-06-19 18:27:31 cl909 has joined
2290 2011-06-19 18:27:41 Anduck has joined
2291 2011-06-19 18:27:54 <TD> if enough participants agree to the contract and provide an input, the size of the contract is met and all the transactions are distributed
2292 2011-06-19 18:28:00 <manifold_> wtf is going on, on mtgox? why the massive drop?
2293 2011-06-19 18:28:06 <TD> now each block effectively has a bounty on its head, but not provided by inflation
2294 2011-06-19 18:28:19 <TD> if the contracts value is not met, the entrepreneur has to pay a fee
2295 2011-06-19 18:28:30 <TD> i'm not sure how to implement that part yet. i only found out about this concept half an hour ago
2296 2011-06-19 18:28:30 <upb> cant even get a tcp connection to it :)
2297 2011-06-19 18:28:35 <TD> but i think it's probably do-able
2298 2011-06-19 18:28:39 <BlueMatt> sounds quite cool
2299 2011-06-19 18:28:53 echelon has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2300 2011-06-19 18:28:58 <BlueMatt> so now we just need a rich entrepreneur...
2301 2011-06-19 18:29:01 erska has joined
2302 2011-06-19 18:29:06 <BlueMatt> bitcoin foundation?
2303 2011-06-19 18:29:09 BigBeerJR has joined
2304 2011-06-19 18:29:25 <BlueMatt> well...sounds really cool
2305 2011-06-19 18:29:42 <TD> i think entrepreneurs could be anyone
2306 2011-06-19 18:29:47 <davex__> here's a good one:
2307 2011-06-19 18:29:49 <davex__> Jun19 17:51:16 mtgox 261,383.7630 @ 0.01 USD
2308 2011-06-19 18:29:56 <BlueMatt> whether it can be done digitally or not isnt the biggest deal, that can be enforced contractually and you get large miners
2309 2011-06-19 18:30:05 <BlueMatt> but if it could...
2310 2011-06-19 18:30:20 <BlueMatt> really cool as an open market for such contracts could mean mining
2311 2011-06-19 18:30:25 apsoa has left ("Leaving.")
2312 2011-06-19 18:31:06 Rolz73 has joined
2313 2011-06-19 18:31:13 <phantomcircuit> manifold_, a single massive retarded seller
2314 2011-06-19 18:31:17 <ersi> Oooh, I hope these guys inserted HUGE transaction fees
2315 2011-06-19 18:31:23 mtrlt has joined
2316 2011-06-19 18:31:32 <BlueMatt> essentially bets on future mining strength with rewards for miners if there isnt enough...
2317 2011-06-19 18:31:32 <TD> if it can be done purely within the contracts framework that offers an advantage, mining can stay decentralized (or largely decentralized)
2318 2011-06-19 18:31:32 <phantomcircuit> im guessing some russian guy fucking with the market since there is a corresponding massive buy up in RUB
2319 2011-06-19 18:31:45 megu has joined
2320 2011-06-19 18:31:47 <Granttt> where all the conspiracy theories come from ?
2321 2011-06-19 18:32:01 <Granttt> you know what bitcoins traded for in june 2010 ?
2322 2011-06-19 18:32:40 * ericmock wishes he had not skipped all the lectures during the second half of the upper-level macro-economics class he took
2323 2011-06-19 18:32:49 * wasabi1 slaps self over and over again.
2324 2011-06-19 18:32:53 <phantomcircuit> Granttt, someone sold 261,383.7630 BTC @ 0.01 USD
2325 2011-06-19 18:33:02 <phantomcircuit> Granttt, that's a little suspicious to me
2326 2011-06-19 18:33:04 <Backburn> [10:52] <+gribble> Jun19 17:51:16 mtgox 261,383.7630 @ 0.01 USD
2327 2011-06-19 18:33:15 <Granttt> yea
2328 2011-06-19 18:33:21 <Granttt> they sold for about that in june 2010
2329 2011-06-19 18:33:30 <Granttt> anything he sold above that is profit
2330 2011-06-19 18:33:32 <manifold_> phantomcircuit: hmm... what's a retarded seller (I'm no native speaker...)
2331 2011-06-19 18:33:39 <Granttt> he was stupid yes
2332 2011-06-19 18:33:49 <Granttt> but maybe thats because of all the "hacked mtgox" threads
2333 2011-06-19 18:33:52 <bitanarchy> which channel shows the trades?
2334 2011-06-19 18:33:57 <TD> any idea where somebody got 200,000+ btc from?
2335 2011-06-19 18:34:01 lumos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2336 2011-06-19 18:34:18 <Perpetuum> they came from 1KLahQtqDNAXvrjNyfvgSBtAhwco5ZxLp4
2337 2011-06-19 18:34:25 <Perpetuum> probably
2338 2011-06-19 18:34:28 <ersi> TD: That's a very fine question
2339 2011-06-19 18:34:30 <Granttt> TD: there's over 6,5mill in circulation
2340 2011-06-19 18:34:31 <phantomcircuit> Granttt, hint where do you think they got all that btc from
2341 2011-06-19 18:34:43 <Granttt> most of which were mined long before me and you were here
2342 2011-06-19 18:34:44 draaglom has joined
2343 2011-06-19 18:34:57 <BlueMatt> TD: well the concept sounds really cool...really, really cool. Ill give it some more turning in my head, but the concept sounds really, really cool...and moderately KISS, and sounds 100x better than the crazy multi-chain stuff, even if I cant find a problem with that (though that doesnt mean anything, Im not that smart)
2344 2011-06-19 18:34:58 <Granttt> when i came here in dec 2010, i bought mines at 0.25
2345 2011-06-19 18:35:19 <Granttt> when i came back in may30th and i saw they were 8.5 i sold all of them
2346 2011-06-19 18:35:27 <Granttt> in excitement/panic
2347 2011-06-19 18:35:48 <ersi> Granttt: Good going. That's quite a deal.
2348 2011-06-19 18:35:55 <Granttt> indeed
2349 2011-06-19 18:36:06 <Granttt> i only wish i had spent rest of my mtgox usd back then
2350 2011-06-19 18:36:12 <Granttt> i had 1700 USD i had not spent
2351 2011-06-19 18:36:15 <Granttt> on mtgox
2352 2011-06-19 18:36:39 <ersi> Yeah yeah. Why won't you be happy of the great deal you made instead?
2353 2011-06-19 18:36:44 echelon has joined
2354 2011-06-19 18:36:50 <Granttt> yea i am happy
2355 2011-06-19 18:36:50 <ersi> It's easy to be afterwise
2356 2011-06-19 18:36:58 <Granttt> made 30k from ~1k
2357 2011-06-19 18:37:04 <Granttt> but could been almost 3 times more
2358 2011-06-19 18:37:15 <Granttt> if i had just placed some more orders
2359 2011-06-19 18:37:19 <ersi> It can always be better of course
2360 2011-06-19 18:37:27 * ericmock sold Apple stock in 1999 to buy a house...
2361 2011-06-19 18:37:31 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2362 2011-06-19 18:37:38 <ericmock> hindsight is 20/20
2363 2011-06-19 18:37:40 <Granttt> but damn whoever had bids today at 0.01 will get rich
2364 2011-06-19 18:37:52 <Granttt> over 250k coins went at 0.01
2365 2011-06-19 18:37:54 <ersi> But I frown upon people saying that all the time, especially people that has made a huge profit.
2366 2011-06-19 18:38:10 <mtrlt> Granttt: if mtgox does not rollback :P
2367 2011-06-19 18:38:11 BigBeerJR has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2368 2011-06-19 18:38:23 <Anduck> they can't
2369 2011-06-19 18:38:27 <mtrlt> they can't?
2370 2011-06-19 18:38:39 <mtrlt> what if the people just didn't have time to cash out before mtgox was shut down
2371 2011-06-19 18:38:42 <Anduck> i dunno how mtgox works tho
2372 2011-06-19 18:38:46 <Anduck> might be instant payouts
2373 2011-06-19 18:38:47 <mtrlt> i.e. send the btc to their wallets
2374 2011-06-19 18:38:52 <Granttt> i really doubt they would, why would they ?
2375 2011-06-19 18:39:05 <mtrlt> Anduck: you dont know. i know. shut up
2376 2011-06-19 18:39:07 <davex__> blockexplorer seems to be down
2377 2011-06-19 18:39:22 <Granttt> if their server got compromised why didnt the supposed thief just take mtgox wallet ?
2378 2011-06-19 18:39:23 <mtrlt> Granttt: because that kinda thing happens in the real stock market for example in the last flash crash :p
2379 2011-06-19 18:39:26 <mtrlt> happened
2380 2011-06-19 18:39:32 <Anduck> normal markets got T+3 transfer time which makes rollback possible, i guess mtgox doesn't tho
2381 2011-06-19 18:39:50 <mtrlt> transfer time?
2382 2011-06-19 18:39:55 <mtrlt> oh yeah
2383 2011-06-19 18:39:56 <mtrlt> true
2384 2011-06-19 18:39:56 <anu> blockexploer works fine for me
2385 2011-06-19 18:39:57 <Anduck> before things _really_ move
2386 2011-06-19 18:40:04 <Granttt> for me it seems like a legitimate trade, and early adopter cashed out
2387 2011-06-19 18:40:13 <mtrlt> lol
2388 2011-06-19 18:40:13 <Granttt> an*
2389 2011-06-19 18:40:15 Raulo has joined
2390 2011-06-19 18:40:21 <ersi> Anduck: This isn't a normal market.
2391 2011-06-19 18:40:26 <mtrlt> a very stupid early adopter. selling little by little would have worked more :P
2392 2011-06-19 18:40:27 <Anduck> ersi, INDEED!
2393 2011-06-19 18:40:41 <ericmock> the problem is that it's small enough to be readily manipulated
2394 2011-06-19 18:40:41 <mtrlt> would have given more money.
2395 2011-06-19 18:40:41 <Granttt> wonder what fortune will write now
2396 2011-06-19 18:40:49 <mtrlt> bitcoin flash crahs :P
2397 2011-06-19 18:40:51 <mtrlt> crash
2398 2011-06-19 18:40:58 <ersi> "zomg it's unstable!"
2399 2011-06-19 18:41:01 <ericmock> even if someone isn't necessarily trying to manipulate it
2400 2011-06-19 18:41:14 <Granttt> if this trade was indeed legitimate, gonna be fun trading it next couple of days
2401 2011-06-19 18:41:27 <Granttt> RALLY!
2402 2011-06-19 18:41:41 <ericmock> it's probably a lot better now since those coins got dispersed
2403 2011-06-19 18:41:45 Rolz73 has quit (Quit: AndroIRC)
2404 2011-06-19 18:42:00 mtrlt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2405 2011-06-19 18:42:04 dbitcoin has joined
2406 2011-06-19 18:42:06 <Granttt> yes, but im scare we'll have another early adopter do same thing sooner or later
2407 2011-06-19 18:42:13 <ericmock> but I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see a few more 'runs through the order book'
2408 2011-06-19 18:42:18 Raulo_ has joined
2409 2011-06-19 18:42:37 <ericmock> it's a blip...
2410 2011-06-19 18:43:11 <enki> question is, reopen below or above $13
2411 2011-06-19 18:43:12 Geebus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2412 2011-06-19 18:43:27 <Anduck> mtgox site is down?
2413 2011-06-19 18:43:29 <ericmock> unless you panicked and sold on the way down, you really lost nothing
2414 2011-06-19 18:43:41 <ersi> Anduck: It's probably just loaded, from the pansies that's panicing
2415 2011-06-19 18:43:53 <enki> nah, he's taken it offline to investigate
2416 2011-06-19 18:44:01 <Anduck> how u know he's taken it off?
2417 2011-06-19 18:44:03 <enki> pby easier to go through the log without more stuff adding to it
2418 2011-06-19 18:44:09 <Anduck> yup
2419 2011-06-19 18:44:10 <enki> he's in #bitcoin-otc
2420 2011-06-19 18:44:11 <Granttt> one intersting note...
2421 2011-06-19 18:44:19 <Anduck> how i get in the bitcoin-otc with windows =/
2422 2011-06-19 18:44:26 <Granttt> the only other market to have matched that trade is that scam site: btcex
2423 2011-06-19 18:44:30 <ericmock> someone needs to 'bless' you
2424 2011-06-19 18:44:40 Raulo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2425 2011-06-19 18:44:47 <Granttt> russian site (no offence Russia, i love ya but you have too many criminals)
2426 2011-06-19 18:44:51 apsoa has joined
2427 2011-06-19 18:44:53 <enki> 18:39 <+MagicalTux> NxTitle: someone with lots of coins did get hacked
2428 2011-06-19 18:45:07 <TD> ugh
2429 2011-06-19 18:45:10 <Granttt> oh shit
2430 2011-06-19 18:45:15 <TD> but how is a hacker supposed to withdraw the cash ?
2431 2011-06-19 18:45:16 <Anduck> ericmock, what u mean? can u do it then?
2432 2011-06-19 18:45:22 <Granttt> he wont
2433 2011-06-19 18:45:24 <MagicalTux> TD: he couldn't, and now he's stopped
2434 2011-06-19 18:45:27 <Granttt> mtgox has it
2435 2011-06-19 18:45:37 <TD> to withdraw that much you need to go through KYC
2436 2011-06-19 18:45:38 <ericmock> Anduck: Google bitcoin-otc authentication
2437 2011-06-19 18:45:39 <TD> ah, right
2438 2011-06-19 18:45:42 <TD> that makes sense
2439 2011-06-19 18:45:44 <Anduck> k
2440 2011-06-19 18:45:50 <TD> weird that he didn't think that through
2441 2011-06-19 18:45:53 <MagicalTux> so we're kind of safe
2442 2011-06-19 18:46:08 <MagicalTux> we'll just rollback all affected trades
2443 2011-06-19 18:46:17 * TD is staggered somebody has that quantity of coins in the exchange
2444 2011-06-19 18:46:17 <TD> great
2445 2011-06-19 18:46:32 cronopio has joined
2446 2011-06-19 18:46:36 <TD> MagicalTux: you may want to consider allowing google authentication in the next mtgox version. that way users can benefit from 2-factor auth
2447 2011-06-19 18:46:37 <ius> MagicalTux: Time to review your security policies perhaps?
2448 2011-06-19 18:46:42 <ius> May I suggest a forced password change?
2449 2011-06-19 18:46:44 <ius> ...
2450 2011-06-19 18:47:02 <TD> oh, and risk based login challenges for users who don't sign up for 2-factor auth
2451 2011-06-19 18:47:06 assassindrake has joined
2452 2011-06-19 18:47:06 kunnis has joined
2453 2011-06-19 18:47:08 palsecam has joined
2454 2011-06-19 18:47:08 ulee has joined
2455 2011-06-19 18:47:09 Gonzago has joined
2456 2011-06-19 18:47:24 KingMartin has joined
2457 2011-06-19 18:47:28 grndzero has joined
2458 2011-06-19 18:47:37 <ThomasV> MagicalTux: do you confirm a user account was hacked ?
2459 2011-06-19 18:47:37 halcyon10 has joined
2460 2011-06-19 18:47:39 OtaconEmmerich has joined
2461 2011-06-19 18:47:40 <enki> MagicalTux: all trades happening after, or just trades by that user?
2462 2011-06-19 18:47:50 <phantomcircuit> TD, google authentication sucks
2463 2011-06-19 18:47:57 proximiX has joined
2464 2011-06-19 18:47:58 <TD> why?
2465 2011-06-19 18:48:04 Xaphias has joined
2466 2011-06-19 18:48:10 cprompt has joined
2467 2011-06-19 18:48:10 slux has joined
2468 2011-06-19 18:48:10 andyfletcher has joined
2469 2011-06-19 18:48:12 LightRider is now known as afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|LightRider
2470 2011-06-19 18:48:14 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: um, not that simple�
2471 2011-06-19 18:48:15 <phantomcircuit> TD, at least their openid authentication does
2472 2011-06-19 18:48:23 Georgyo has joined
2473 2011-06-19 18:48:25 <MagicalTux> enki: all trades happening since then
2474 2011-06-19 18:48:31 Ken` has joined
2475 2011-06-19 18:48:31 <TD> phantomcircuit: because of the ui or ... ?
2476 2011-06-19 18:48:33 tuoppi has joined
2477 2011-06-19 18:48:36 TH-1355 has joined
2478 2011-06-19 18:48:43 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: why?
2479 2011-06-19 18:48:46 nomit has joined
2480 2011-06-19 18:48:51 <Granttt> sounds good
2481 2011-06-19 18:48:55 <ersi> ThomasV: 18:39 <+MagicalTux> NxTitle: someone with lots of coins did get hacked
2482 2011-06-19 18:48:59 <tcatm> MagicalTux: can you tell me the loweset tid you're going to rollback so I can remove them from bitcoincharts' db, too?
2483 2011-06-19 18:49:00 Zoiah has joined
2484 2011-06-19 18:49:01 Turix has joined
2485 2011-06-19 18:49:01 zamgo has joined
2486 2011-06-19 18:49:09 sanchaz has joined
2487 2011-06-19 18:49:12 <MagicalTux> tcatm: soon
2488 2011-06-19 18:49:12 pettr1 has joined
2489 2011-06-19 18:49:14 TH-1355 has left ()
2490 2011-06-19 18:49:17 <devrandom> TD - it's probably not hard for MT to implement native OTP?
2491 2011-06-19 18:49:20 <luke-jr> what evidence is there that the trades were using stolen coins?
2492 2011-06-19 18:49:22 <MagicalTux> tcatm: I'm writing the announce for now
2493 2011-06-19 18:49:24 triplex has joined
2494 2011-06-19 18:49:39 PatrikR has joined
2495 2011-06-19 18:49:41 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: the trades were done using a stolen account with had a lot on it, thru causing a globl impact on the market
2496 2011-06-19 18:49:41 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, so now you're the nyse :(
2497 2011-06-19 18:49:52 <TD> devrandom: it's kind of a pain, imo. you need to sign contracts with mobile carriers, if you want to support mobile apps it's more work, etc.
2498 2011-06-19 18:49:54 <MagicalTux> phantomcircuit: you'd rather see the market collapse ?
2499 2011-06-19 18:49:55 polipie has joined
2500 2011-06-19 18:50:08 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, market appears to have recovered...
2501 2011-06-19 18:50:15 pyro__ has joined
2502 2011-06-19 18:50:19 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
2503 2011-06-19 18:50:27 BabyGeek has joined
2504 2011-06-19 18:50:33 <Diablo-D3> also, lol, the market "crash" made it to hn
2505 2011-06-19 18:50:34 <ericmock> rolling back seems like it will open a huge can-o-worms
2506 2011-06-19 18:50:38 Technomage has joined
2507 2011-06-19 18:50:42 polakmaly has joined
2508 2011-06-19 18:50:43 <viggi> Rollback sounds like a bad idea
2509 2011-06-19 18:50:43 <devrandom> TD - mobile carriers? I thought anybody can run StrongAuth?
2510 2011-06-19 18:50:43 bobke has joined
2511 2011-06-19 18:50:49 <davex__> um, hope you people aren't bitching about trades you made involving stolen coins being rolled back.
2512 2011-06-19 18:50:57 <TD> yeah but you don't want to restrict it to only people with smartphones, i think
2513 2011-06-19 18:50:58 smokemasta2 has joined
2514 2011-06-19 18:51:00 <viggi> What about people who transferred their BTC to their wallets already :p
2515 2011-06-19 18:51:00 Koalemitos has joined
2516 2011-06-19 18:51:02 moe1111 has joined
2517 2011-06-19 18:51:04 <luke-jr> rollback is a bad idea because we all made so much money on it :P
2518 2011-06-19 18:51:07 MrSambal has joined
2519 2011-06-19 18:51:13 <luke-jr> viggi: I wish I did :<
2520 2011-06-19 18:51:15 <ThomasV> luke-jr: lol
2521 2011-06-19 18:51:15 Storagewars has joined
2522 2011-06-19 18:51:15 Gaming4JC has joined
2523 2011-06-19 18:51:16 Astounding has joined
2524 2011-06-19 18:51:18 <ius> So even if this was another case outside of MtGox's control, you still ought to review the way you handle security incidents. You know what I mean.
2525 2011-06-19 18:51:21 <ericmock> if you rollback the market is going to crash again because of the lost confidence
2526 2011-06-19 18:51:23 ducki2p has joined
2527 2011-06-19 18:51:24 <davex__> viggi, they should be returned?
2528 2011-06-19 18:51:30 phedny has joined
2529 2011-06-19 18:51:31 <viggi> davex__: As if that would happen
2530 2011-06-19 18:51:33 <ius> (The prior according to gox themselves)
2531 2011-06-19 18:51:39 BitCoinExchequer has joined
2532 2011-06-19 18:51:54 <cprompt> The rollback kind of feels like a chargeback, which is not a feature of Bitcoins. Still, I don't want to see the market fail.
2533 2011-06-19 18:51:57 droud has joined
2534 2011-06-19 18:51:59 <davex__> viggi, could voluntarily. some people wouldn't, and they are criminals.
2535 2011-06-19 18:52:01 cereal7802 has joined
2536 2011-06-19 18:52:04 zelyony has joined
2537 2011-06-19 18:52:07 fredix has joined
2538 2011-06-19 18:52:08 <gribble> timed out
2539 2011-06-19 18:52:15 <OtaconEmmerich> I'd rather have a rollback with a slight market craash
2540 2011-06-19 18:52:17 <enki> what about ppl who already withdrew the bitcoins they bought since?
2541 2011-06-19 18:52:18 lnet has joined
2542 2011-06-19 18:52:19 phedny has left ()
2543 2011-06-19 18:52:20 RAM2012 has joined
2544 2011-06-19 18:52:22 <OtaconEmmerich> then to leave it as is
2545 2011-06-19 18:52:30 talso has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2546 2011-06-19 18:52:31 <ersi> cprompt: Exchanges isn't a feature of Bitcoin in itself, so shush
2547 2011-06-19 18:52:33 kv39_ has joined
2548 2011-06-19 18:52:34 <copumpkin> enki: there's a limit to what they could have withdrawn
2549 2011-06-19 18:52:36 <Granttt> If the trade was illegitimate the only sane thing to do is to reverse ALL trades
2550 2011-06-19 18:52:39 <ersi> Intermediaries are intermediaries.
2551 2011-06-19 18:52:43 Neocryptek_ has joined
2552 2011-06-19 18:52:47 <vegard> IMHO, it inspires confidence in mtgox that they can fix this
2553 2011-06-19 18:52:49 <ersi> Granttt: All *possible* trades
2554 2011-06-19 18:52:49 <copumpkin> Granttt: they can't reverse withdrawals
2555 2011-06-19 18:52:51 elnato has joined
2556 2011-06-19 18:52:53 <Technomage> Granttt: I agree
2557 2011-06-19 18:53:02 <enki> copumpkin: so you're saying mtgox should just eat the loss?
2558 2011-06-19 18:53:03 <Technomage> most people couldn't have withdrawn a lot
2559 2011-06-19 18:53:05 <Technomage> because of the limits
2560 2011-06-19 18:53:14 <devrandom> TD: I'm being slow, not sure how this has to do with mobile carriers.... anybody using 2-factor is using something like yubikey or strongauth?
2561 2011-06-19 18:53:17 KuDeTa has joined
2562 2011-06-19 18:53:17 <copumpkin> enki: nope, I'm not sure what a good solution is :) I think this is the least evil, but some people will be pissed
2563 2011-06-19 18:53:18 <phantomcircuit> Technomage, there are ways around the limits...
2564 2011-06-19 18:53:21 zamgo has quit ()
2565 2011-06-19 18:53:26 phearful has joined
2566 2011-06-19 18:53:29 <TD> devrandom: no. 2-step sends you text messages to your phone, if you don't use the apps
2567 2011-06-19 18:53:37 <TD> devrandom: iirc that's how most people use it
2568 2011-06-19 18:53:57 <Georgyo> if mtgox does a rollback, it would HAVE to eat the loss
2569 2011-06-19 18:54:05 <Georgyo> Thats what banks do
2570 2011-06-19 18:54:08 <Granttt> copumpkin> Granttt: they can't reverse withdrawals <<< no but they can refuse withdrawal to use, the idiot who hacked this individual obviously intended to cashout to RL
2571 2011-06-19 18:54:19 <Astounding> yes george, we should aspire to do business like big banks!!!!
2572 2011-06-19 18:54:22 <Astounding> great plan;)
2573 2011-06-19 18:54:37 <phantomcircuit> Granttt, wrong, they intended to buy up BTC in RUB
2574 2011-06-19 18:54:39 <Georgyo> its the wave of the furture, beside we are already there
2575 2011-06-19 18:54:40 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2576 2011-06-19 18:54:43 <phantomcircuit> how do people not see this
2577 2011-06-19 18:54:48 <devrandom> TD: oh, I thought you are talking about 2-factor, as in password+OTP
2578 2011-06-19 18:54:52 kobach has joined
2579 2011-06-19 18:54:57 <TD> devrandom: i am
2580 2011-06-19 18:55:12 <TD> devrandom: if you enable 2-step on your google account today, the default setup means that on login you will get a code sent to your phone
2581 2011-06-19 18:55:18 <Georgyo> Astounding: don't forget, mtgox already takes a fee on trades
2582 2011-06-19 18:55:18 <TD> ownership of the phone number is the second factor
2583 2011-06-19 18:55:21 mmoya has joined
2584 2011-06-19 18:55:33 gribble has joined
2585 2011-06-19 18:55:41 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2586 2011-06-19 18:55:41 Lambdanaut has joined
2587 2011-06-19 18:55:44 <devrandom> TD: gotcha
2588 2011-06-19 18:55:47 jlgaddis has joined
2589 2011-06-19 18:55:47 casascius has joined
2590 2011-06-19 18:55:47 samlander has joined
2591 2011-06-19 18:55:49 jarly has joined
2592 2011-06-19 18:55:50 kgo has joined
2593 2011-06-19 18:55:52 oneohoneohfive has joined
2594 2011-06-19 18:55:52 AntiVigilante has joined
2595 2011-06-19 18:55:53 <enki> mtgox should act exactly like a big exchange. even tho i woulda made money on this trade..
2596 2011-06-19 18:55:54 Maged has joined
2597 2011-06-19 18:55:58 netrin has joined
2598 2011-06-19 18:56:01 blaupunk has joined
2599 2011-06-19 18:56:03 <Georgyo> enki: As I
2600 2011-06-19 18:56:11 kork has joined
2601 2011-06-19 18:56:11 humana has joined
2602 2011-06-19 18:56:14 <AntiVigilante> Actually I have a solution
2603 2011-06-19 18:56:17 gribble has quit (Client Quit)
2604 2011-06-19 18:56:25 <Cusipzzz> lotsa precedent for major exchanges breaking trades like this
2605 2011-06-19 18:56:26 EskimoBob has joined
2606 2011-06-19 18:56:28 Tiraspol has joined
2607 2011-06-19 18:56:28 ShadeS has joined
2608 2011-06-19 18:56:37 fpgaminer has joined
2609 2011-06-19 18:56:38 ghostwriter has joined
2610 2011-06-19 18:56:41 grifa has joined
2611 2011-06-19 18:56:50 qwebirc627866 has joined
2612 2011-06-19 18:56:52 Speeder has joined
2613 2011-06-19 18:56:53 erek has joined
2614 2011-06-19 18:56:57 <AntiVigilante> the circuit breaker should be in your bot not in the exchange
2615 2011-06-19 18:56:59 stevsie has joined
2616 2011-06-19 18:56:59 OVerLoRDI has joined
2617 2011-06-19 18:56:59 <devrandom> TD: MT could implement 2-factor with SMS by sending to the customer's SMS email gateway account?
2618 2011-06-19 18:57:00 <Speeder> MagicalTux oh, sonmeone woke you up?
2619 2011-06-19 18:57:01 briareus has joined
2620 2011-06-19 18:57:02 Netto has joined
2621 2011-06-19 18:57:04 mtfuji has joined
2622 2011-06-19 18:57:07 <TD> yes, it's possible to implement
2623 2011-06-19 18:57:10 <AntiVigilante> I don't have SMS
2624 2011-06-19 18:57:11 dude_ has joined
2625 2011-06-19 18:57:14 kork has left ()
2626 2011-06-19 18:57:15 musp3r has joined
2627 2011-06-19 18:57:16 <TD> but right now mtgox is super busy with other things
2628 2011-06-19 18:57:25 <TD> it makes more sense to just build on the back of googles pre-existing work in this space
2629 2011-06-19 18:57:25 DiSTANT187 has joined
2630 2011-06-19 18:57:27 Sangheili has joined
2631 2011-06-19 18:57:27 Bossland__ has joined
2632 2011-06-19 18:57:28 delpes has joined
2633 2011-06-19 18:57:28 <MagicalTux> Speeder: yes
2634 2011-06-19 18:57:29 talso has joined
2635 2011-06-19 18:57:30 <TD> or at least offer it as an option (as that's cheap)
2636 2011-06-19 18:57:32 bst-- has joined
2637 2011-06-19 18:57:37 Sloth has joined
2638 2011-06-19 18:57:41 <ShadeS> I don't have SMS either
2639 2011-06-19 18:57:44 <jarly> how will MT reverse the trade?
2640 2011-06-19 18:57:45 <ShadeS> i'm stuck on a fucking sand dune
2641 2011-06-19 18:57:45 <ius> Joinflood is uncool
2642 2011-06-19 18:57:46 palsecam has left ("Quitte")
2643 2011-06-19 18:57:47 bitsnbytes has joined
2644 2011-06-19 18:57:49 dt14 has joined
2645 2011-06-19 18:57:50 <AntiVigilante> TD build on google? are you serious?
2646 2011-06-19 18:57:50 BMoney has joined
2647 2011-06-19 18:57:57 <erek> MagicalTux: i hope you can get back to sleep soon :(
2648 2011-06-19 18:57:59 ben36 has joined
2649 2011-06-19 18:58:00 <Speeder> MagicalTux I was wondering who had your phone... whoever did whatever on mtgox has choosen the worst time ever (from your point of view)
2650 2011-06-19 18:58:02 clarkm has joined
2651 2011-06-19 18:58:05 bgupta__ has joined
2652 2011-06-19 18:58:06 Compn has joined
2653 2011-06-19 18:58:13 <TD> AntiVigilante: why not?
2654 2011-06-19 18:58:14 ReapZor has joined
2655 2011-06-19 18:58:19 stevsie has left ()
2656 2011-06-19 18:58:20 <qwebirc627866> is mt gox and trade hill going to open back up or did they really get raided and shut down by the Department of Justice?
2657 2011-06-19 18:58:23 ratface has joined
2658 2011-06-19 18:58:26 cgmc_ has joined
2659 2011-06-19 18:58:29 <ericmock> or build on Facebook ;-)
2660 2011-06-19 18:58:32 <ius> Speeder: Well, guess that's what happened? :)
2661 2011-06-19 18:58:35 mike47 has joined
2662 2011-06-19 18:58:38 <MagicalTux> Speeder: it was clearly on purpose, I guess
2663 2011-06-19 18:58:38 lorenzoIT has joined
2664 2011-06-19 18:58:41 <enki> qwebirc627866: they're just down to integrate with facebook credits
2665 2011-06-19 18:58:42 <smokemasta2> mtgox server is not in US juristicsion
2666 2011-06-19 18:58:42 licutis has joined
2667 2011-06-19 18:58:43 <Compn> qwebirc627866 : nothing was raided. shutdown for big trade
2668 2011-06-19 18:58:48 <Speeder> MagicalTux I guessed that too.
2669 2011-06-19 18:58:51 <jarly> investigation
2670 2011-06-19 18:58:53 <blueadept> mtgox is in japan
2671 2011-06-19 18:58:58 <qwebirc627866> oh
2672 2011-06-19 18:59:01 oozyburglar has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2673 2011-06-19 18:59:02 <jarly> into the evil trade
2674 2011-06-19 18:59:02 <Gaming4JC> qwebirc627866: I.C.E. = All your bitcoin belong to us. Money Laundering is illegal
2675 2011-06-19 18:59:02 Herodes has joined
2676 2011-06-19 18:59:02 <AntiVigilante> TD - dependency on those who stand to lose from our activities?
2677 2011-06-19 18:59:03 <Gaming4JC> :O
2678 2011-06-19 18:59:05 <qwebirc627866> people are saying that Mt Gox was raided by the feds
2679 2011-06-19 18:59:06 <ericmock> trade hill is in Brazil
2680 2011-06-19 18:59:08 <Gaming4JC> qwebirc627866: jk
2681 2011-06-19 18:59:12 <TD> why does google stand to lose from bitcoin, exactly?
2682 2011-06-19 18:59:18 <Speeder> ericmock trade hill is in chile
2683 2011-06-19 18:59:20 <Speeder> not brazil
2684 2011-06-19 18:59:22 <Speeder> >.<
2685 2011-06-19 18:59:23 oozyburglar has joined
2686 2011-06-19 18:59:27 * Speeder hates when people confuse chile with brazil.
2687 2011-06-19 18:59:28 <Herodes> qwebirc627866: it does not make sense.
2688 2011-06-19 18:59:31 <ericmock> same thing ;-)
2689 2011-06-19 18:59:32 <AntiVigilante> TD who funded google
2690 2011-06-19 18:59:35 <copumpkin> http://snapplr.com/z3b0
2691 2011-06-19 18:59:37 <Georgyo> qwebirc627866: I saw mtgox was invaded by martians
2692 2011-06-19 18:59:38 <Herodes> If mtgox was raided, it would just go online.
2693 2011-06-19 18:59:40 <copumpkin> http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000000006e2f9968dd683161d63a17b88b61ee49c4a5e11755b5113acb8
2694 2011-06-19 18:59:43 <TD> erm, google funds itself ....
2695 2011-06-19 18:59:43 pirrr has joined
2696 2011-06-19 18:59:44 <Herodes> sorry just go offline
2697 2011-06-19 18:59:45 <DiSTANT187> why don't we all wait for a statement instead of repeat internet trash
2698 2011-06-19 18:59:48 <copumpkin> that's an interesting block
2699 2011-06-19 18:59:56 <Speeder> ericmock I had once a person that knew that I am from Brazil and asked about the people that fell in the high mountains of Brazil...
2700 2011-06-19 18:59:56 <AntiVigilante> TD you're new
2701 2011-06-19 18:59:57 <casascius> blockexplorer unresponsive for me
2702 2011-06-19 18:59:59 <qwebirc627866> well, do the exhanges will be back up in a few hours?
2703 2011-06-19 19:00:00 <Herodes> DiST: totally agreed.
2704 2011-06-19 19:00:00 Katapult has joined
2705 2011-06-19 19:00:01 <Speeder> Brazil has no mountains! It is in chile
2706 2011-06-19 19:00:02 <TD> haha
2707 2011-06-19 19:00:02 <blueadept> mtgox said they are cooperating with the U.S. govt to track money laundering, since they can trace back every transaction
2708 2011-06-19 19:00:06 <TD> right. i'm such a newbie here ....
2709 2011-06-19 19:00:19 <ThomasV> casascius: for me too
2710 2011-06-19 19:00:21 <ericmock> Speeder: doesn't the Amazon run through Chile?
2711 2011-06-19 19:00:24 <ericmock> ;-)
2712 2011-06-19 19:00:24 <lianj> {"date"=>1308505876, "price"=>0.01, "amount"=>261383.763, "tid"=>"221858"} hrhr ouch
2713 2011-06-19 19:00:25 TheAncientGoat has joined
2714 2011-06-19 19:00:27 <copumpkin> casascius: that block has a transaction for 432109.87654321
2715 2011-06-19 19:00:29 Shuddertrix has joined
2716 2011-06-19 19:00:30 <briareus> blueadept: citation?
2717 2011-06-19 19:00:33 oozyburglar has quit (Client Quit)
2718 2011-06-19 19:00:33 <blaupunk> there goes the idea of anonymous bitcoin and decentralized bitcoin.
2719 2011-06-19 19:00:34 bitanon has joined
2720 2011-06-19 19:00:35 <TheAncientGoat> Oh wow, this should be fun
2721 2011-06-19 19:00:38 <Speeder> It is 4 in the morning in japan now
2722 2011-06-19 19:00:39 <AntiVigilante> ppl WE CAN ALL track the transactions
2723 2011-06-19 19:00:39 DaQatz has joined
2724 2011-06-19 19:00:39 <sivu> why are they cooperating with US gov if mtgox is in japan
2725 2011-06-19 19:00:42 Kiba` has joined
2726 2011-06-19 19:00:44 KaosMcRage has joined
2727 2011-06-19 19:00:48 <casascius> the transaction for 432109.87654321 is old news.....
2728 2011-06-19 19:00:53 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: so⦠before decisions are made, what's the deal for those of us who will lose out of a reversal?
2729 2011-06-19 19:00:54 <TheAncientGoat> hey Kiba`
2730 2011-06-19 19:00:57 oozyburglar has joined
2731 2011-06-19 19:00:57 <ersi> AntiVigilante: Well, not those internal to MtGox.
2732 2011-06-19 19:00:59 <cprompt> blaupunk: If you want anonymity, you need to avoid the centralized exchanges. For 1%, I'll proxy your transactions :)
2733 2011-06-19 19:00:59 <blueadept> because they voluntarily said they would
2734 2011-06-19 19:01:08 <enki> Today in Bitcoin Vanity: Bitcoin's richest and boldest and the cars they drive
2735 2011-06-19 19:01:11 <blaupunk> cprompt ;)
2736 2011-06-19 19:01:14 <Speeder> ericmock no
2737 2011-06-19 19:01:21 <pirrr> Where can I find mtgox news?
2738 2011-06-19 19:01:25 <luke-jr> sivu: why not?
2739 2011-06-19 19:01:25 <pirrr> And my last plot: http://leanback.eu/bitcoin/plots/20110619200846-mtgox.png
2740 2011-06-19 19:01:25 <Speeder> someone know what happened on mtgox?
2741 2011-06-19 19:01:27 msiren_ has joined
2742 2011-06-19 19:01:29 lyspooner has joined
2743 2011-06-19 19:01:32 <Speeder> or at least a idea?
2744 2011-06-19 19:01:33 tomat is now known as tomat_
2745 2011-06-19 19:01:38 <sivu> somebody just bought some guns and drugs with 432109btc
2746 2011-06-19 19:01:40 <AntiVigilante> Speeder a hax
2747 2011-06-19 19:01:40 <enki> Speeder: someone got hacked. the transactions will be reversed
2748 2011-06-19 19:01:43 <ersi> pirrr: You could sit here and be quiet and watch out for MagicalTux's wise words. (MtGox owner)
2749 2011-06-19 19:01:51 <pirrr> thanks ersi
2750 2011-06-19 19:01:51 xert has joined
2751 2011-06-19 19:01:53 <Speeder> I see
2752 2011-06-19 19:01:58 <jarly> ok, i don't get how he's gonna reverse the transaction
2753 2011-06-19 19:01:59 <TD> AntiVigilante: anyway, for what it's worth, google already funded the development of an entire bitcoin implementation
2754 2011-06-19 19:02:01 OtaconEmmerich has left ()
2755 2011-06-19 19:02:04 * ericmock is headed to Chile for Carnival next year
2756 2011-06-19 19:02:08 <Herodes> Speeder: the most likely thing i think of. Someone just cashed out a lot, not thinking of getting most of their btc. or just a type error in someones very rich account.
2757 2011-06-19 19:02:10 <Speeder> The person hacked really had 500k on mtgox?
2758 2011-06-19 19:02:10 <TD> AntiVigilante: so i don't think allowing people to use its auth system is such a gigantic leap
2759 2011-06-19 19:02:11 <jarly> is it internal or was the trade already in the blockchain?
2760 2011-06-19 19:02:15 <ersi> jarly: If both the money and BTC were at MtGox, they're still at MtGox.
2761 2011-06-19 19:02:21 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2762 2011-06-19 19:02:26 hamush has joined
2763 2011-06-19 19:02:26 <jarly> ersi: ah, so they were internal
2764 2011-06-19 19:02:30 <AntiVigilante> TD it's not a leap it's a security risk
2765 2011-06-19 19:02:35 <ersi> jarly: As far as I've understood, yes.
2766 2011-06-19 19:02:43 <AntiVigilante> goggle does not represent our interests
2767 2011-06-19 19:02:50 <luke-jr> Google is evil
2768 2011-06-19 19:03:01 <sivu> just like the governments
2769 2011-06-19 19:03:03 <TD> a security risk? you mean, moreso than having everyone implement their own authentication system that may or may not be robust against brute forcing, phishing, password re-use etc?
2770 2011-06-19 19:03:16 * TD rolls his eyes
2771 2011-06-19 19:03:20 <ericmock> I'm not sure if mtgox does this already but it might be good to pay some 'special' attention to people with a lot of money in their system
2772 2011-06-19 19:03:22 DavidSJ has joined
2773 2011-06-19 19:03:24 <AntiVigilante> a political security risk
2774 2011-06-19 19:03:24 gribble has joined
2775 2011-06-19 19:03:26 <Speeder> MagicalTux anyway, the incident today showed the site can very easily freeze to users. I was daytrading, and it stopped responding at 16.8 USD and I could only use it again after 30 minutes or so.
2776 2011-06-19 19:03:29 <phantomcircuit> TD, it's actually easy as hell
2777 2011-06-19 19:03:39 <AntiVigilante> christ where did all the crybabies come from
2778 2011-06-19 19:03:46 <ersi> Whaaaaaaa whaaaaaaaaaaa
2779 2011-06-19 19:03:47 glitch-mod has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2780 2011-06-19 19:03:48 <phantomcircuit> TD, except phishing, protecting against human stupidity
2781 2011-06-19 19:03:52 <Herodes> AntiVigilante: yes, it is incredible.
2782 2011-06-19 19:03:56 <ersi> Speeder: Make a better one then.
2783 2011-06-19 19:04:01 <Herodes> But it is always like this when something happens.
2784 2011-06-19 19:04:04 <TD> yes, it's easy to implement authentication if you ignore all the hard problems
2785 2011-06-19 19:04:05 <Speeder> ersi fuck you
2786 2011-06-19 19:04:06 <Herodes> I believe they jsut like the fuss.
2787 2011-06-19 19:04:07 <ersi> No one can protect anything from human stupidity
2788 2011-06-19 19:04:08 glitch-mod has joined
2789 2011-06-19 19:04:08 pasky has joined
2790 2011-06-19 19:04:10 <ersi> Speeder: No, fuck You.
2791 2011-06-19 19:04:12 <DiSTANT187> mtgox needs a p2p network where they broadcast trades
2792 2011-06-19 19:04:15 <sivu> antivigilante, crybabies are mined with lowering difficulty based on the publicity
2793 2011-06-19 19:04:17 <copumpkin> AntiVigilante: you'd think people getting into this risky market wouldn't be so surprised when shit goes down :P
2794 2011-06-19 19:04:31 <Speeder> ersi you are jsut one of those stupid open source people that tell people to do it themselves
2795 2011-06-19 19:04:34 retractiverrchip has joined
2796 2011-06-19 19:04:35 <Speeder> when they do a bug report
2797 2011-06-19 19:04:35 <phantomcircuit> TD, robustness against brute forcing/password re-use are both trivial problems
2798 2011-06-19 19:04:36 <kunnis> DiSTANT187 Why do p2p? There's a bitcoin-market channel that has all the info
2799 2011-06-19 19:04:38 <AntiVigilante> copumpkin: why do you think I'm lending.
2800 2011-06-19 19:04:39 G5 has joined
2801 2011-06-19 19:04:39 <MagicalTux> Speeder: I think the ddos protection blocked all the people who did F5 too often
2802 2011-06-19 19:04:40 mtrlt has joined
2803 2011-06-19 19:04:45 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2804 2011-06-19 19:04:46 <luke-jr> kunnis: and #bitcoin-watch which is better
2805 2011-06-19 19:04:50 <Speeder> "Oh... you do not liked my software? screw you, do your better."
2806 2011-06-19 19:04:58 <phearful> Somoene is saying the 500k bitcoins are the bitcoins in MTGOX cumulative wallets, NOT ONE ACCOUNT
2807 2011-06-19 19:04:58 <Gaming4JC> DiSTANT187: agreed, something DHT style. With CDN website, or I2P or something
2808 2011-06-19 19:04:59 <phantomcircuit> TD, robustness against phishing is literally an impossibility
2809 2011-06-19 19:04:59 <Speeder> MagicalTux I am talking about the "transaction is happening"
2810 2011-06-19 19:05:12 <DiSTANT187> so we can programmatically consume the information
2811 2011-06-19 19:05:13 <Speeder> (I do not F5 because I know the DDoS lock me out)
2812 2011-06-19 19:05:15 newark73 has joined
2813 2011-06-19 19:05:20 <DiSTANT187> I don't wanna go through IRC for that
2814 2011-06-19 19:05:21 <KuDeTa> yes yes, were the coins MtGox?
2815 2011-06-19 19:05:22 doofus2 has joined
2816 2011-06-19 19:05:24 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: so what's the deal for people who will lose money on a reversal?
2817 2011-06-19 19:05:26 <TD> there are lots of different types of phishing and password re-use. but whatever. feel free to reinvent the wheel (badly) if you want
2818 2011-06-19 19:05:26 sirk390 has joined
2819 2011-06-19 19:05:31 <MagicalTux> Speeder: that's because the server is busy, should be fixed as soon as we switch system
2820 2011-06-19 19:05:31 <AntiVigilante> phearful 500k $ = 25k bitcoins get your story straight
2821 2011-06-19 19:05:35 <PatrikR> ops please +m the channel and +v magicaltux
2822 2011-06-19 19:05:40 <phearful> i didnt say $500k
2823 2011-06-19 19:05:40 <Speeder> MagicalTux oh, nice :D
2824 2011-06-19 19:05:42 Eliel has joined
2825 2011-06-19 19:05:45 <phearful> 500K bitcoin !!!
2826 2011-06-19 19:05:45 <luke-jr> PatrikR: this isn't even the right channel for this
2827 2011-06-19 19:05:46 <Sangheili> Looking at that address that sent the 430k BTC - looks like it received a bunch of transactions from other addresses like 100btc, 800btc, 5000btc, etc
2828 2011-06-19 19:05:47 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: they earned money from a hacker operating a hacked account
2829 2011-06-19 19:05:47 burp_ has joined
2830 2011-06-19 19:05:53 <luke-jr> this is #bitcoin-dev, not #bitcoin
2831 2011-06-19 19:05:55 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: so?
2832 2011-06-19 19:05:56 Veladon has joined
2833 2011-06-19 19:05:58 <ius> PatrikR: This is a development channel. Stuff shouldn't be here anyway
2834 2011-06-19 19:05:59 <Speeder> MagicalTux I cannot wait then, every time you speak about the new system is some even nicer feature than the one I liked last.
2835 2011-06-19 19:06:01 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: that's not their problem
2836 2011-06-19 19:06:03 <pasky> DiSTANT187: telnet bitcoincharts.com 27007
2837 2011-06-19 19:06:08 <pasky> DiSTANT187: also, mtgox has websocket api
2838 2011-06-19 19:06:08 gribble has joined
2839 2011-06-19 19:06:08 LLE has joined
2840 2011-06-19 19:06:13 darnold has joined
2841 2011-06-19 19:06:19 <ius> Ironically, lots of 'smaller' fish also claimed to be hacked, and those weren't reversed either
2842 2011-06-19 19:06:24 jtaylor has joined
2843 2011-06-19 19:06:28 purrr has joined
2844 2011-06-19 19:06:31 lolak has joined
2845 2011-06-19 19:06:32 thechut has joined
2846 2011-06-19 19:06:33 <MagicalTux> [04:05:17] <luke-jr> MagicalTux: that's not their problem <- that's one way of seeing things
2847 2011-06-19 19:06:41 erik__ has joined
2848 2011-06-19 19:06:43 <Kiba`> wee!
2849 2011-06-19 19:06:43 <Cusipzzz> MagicalTux: are you restoring the bids as well, or just breaking trades?
2850 2011-06-19 19:06:45 <Kiba`> big soldoff
2851 2011-06-19 19:06:48 <sanchaz> ius got a point
2852 2011-06-19 19:06:48 <netrin> Hey MagicalTux, aside from irc, will you post an official statement on the web - say on the bitcoin forums?
2853 2011-06-19 19:06:49 <Kiba`> kinda a meh to me
2854 2011-06-19 19:06:54 dude65535 has joined
2855 2011-06-19 19:06:55 <brocktice> ius: there's a diference between pulling btc out of a compromised account, and using a compromised account to screw with the whole market
2856 2011-06-19 19:06:56 btcrowan has joined
2857 2011-06-19 19:06:56 <Kiba`> MagicalTux: don't break trades and don't restore bids
2858 2011-06-19 19:06:57 <MagicalTux> Cusipzzz: it'll be up to people to put bids/asks again
2859 2011-06-19 19:06:58 <ersi> netrin: He's on his way.
2860 2011-06-19 19:07:01 <MagicalTux> netrin: doing so
2861 2011-06-19 19:07:06 picci has joined
2862 2011-06-19 19:07:08 <Cusipzzz> MagicalTux: ugh, that's ugly.
2863 2011-06-19 19:07:08 <netrin> 'k thanks
2864 2011-06-19 19:07:11 err0r^ has joined
2865 2011-06-19 19:07:11 <ius> brocktice: Where's the line?
2866 2011-06-19 19:07:12 <ersi> If people could just use their fucking eyes
2867 2011-06-19 19:07:13 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: did you consider just locking all the funds involved, and letting some kind of police handle it?
2868 2011-06-19 19:07:16 <phearful> who the fuck has 500k bitcoins
2869 2011-06-19 19:07:19 <netrin> MagicalTux: best of luck and energy to you
2870 2011-06-19 19:07:23 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2871 2011-06-19 19:07:24 <kobach> ^
2872 2011-06-19 19:07:27 kW_ has joined
2873 2011-06-19 19:07:33 <MagicalTux> luke-jr: and keep a hundred accounts frozen?
2874 2011-06-19 19:07:34 <DiSTANT187> pasky: where is documentation for mtgox websocket api?
2875 2011-06-19 19:07:39 <MagicalTux> (even more)
2876 2011-06-19 19:07:40 <ericmock> how many bitcoins have been generated to date?
2877 2011-06-19 19:07:42 * Kiba` thinks this is just an early adopter dumping his coin and not some kind of hack
2878 2011-06-19 19:07:43 <pasky> DiSTANT187: it's in the forums, trivial to google out
2879 2011-06-19 19:07:46 <oneohoneohfive> i'm curious to see how many bitcoins escaped the site during the crash
2880 2011-06-19 19:07:48 <viggi> Maybe transfer the MtGox related chatter to some else channel?
2881 2011-06-19 19:07:49 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: better than reversing them, which could be seen by some as theft
2882 2011-06-19 19:07:50 <Cusipzzz> MagicalTux: if you just break trades but don't restore the bids at say 15 and below.. and it drops, then recovers, those people will be rightfully upset
2883 2011-06-19 19:07:52 err0r^ has left ()
2884 2011-06-19 19:07:54 <viggi> this isn't exactly the best chan for it
2885 2011-06-19 19:07:54 * ericmock should know of an easy to find out but doesn't
2886 2011-06-19 19:07:55 rasengan has joined
2887 2011-06-19 19:07:55 mike47 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2888 2011-06-19 19:07:56 <DiSTANT187> pasky: thanks... looking now
2889 2011-06-19 19:07:57 <picci> can someone give me a quick summary of what happened in pm ? :)
2890 2011-06-19 19:07:57 sloberi has joined
2891 2011-06-19 19:08:03 <AntiVigilante> Kiba`: it went to .01
2892 2011-06-19 19:08:11 <samlander> eta on when site is going to be up again?
2893 2011-06-19 19:08:11 <Kiba`> AntiVigilante: so?
2894 2011-06-19 19:08:12 <BabyGeek> Why mtgox.com is down ?
2895 2011-06-19 19:08:12 innervisi0nn has joined
2896 2011-06-19 19:08:12 dac has joined
2897 2011-06-19 19:08:16 <ghostwriter> ericmock, 6.59 million
2898 2011-06-19 19:08:20 <Kiba`> meh
2899 2011-06-19 19:08:22 <casascius> Perhaps here is an idea, when the site goes back up, suspend trading for 10-15 minutes so people can put their bids and asks back up
2900 2011-06-19 19:08:26 <AntiVigilante> Kiba`: that's a hax
2901 2011-06-19 19:08:26 <Kiba`> price will go back up
2902 2011-06-19 19:08:28 gribble has joined
2903 2011-06-19 19:08:31 hugolp has joined
2904 2011-06-19 19:08:37 <brocktice> casascius: it would have to be longer if you're going to do that
2905 2011-06-19 19:08:41 <ShadeS> phearful: a theif
2906 2011-06-19 19:08:41 <Kiba`> AntiVigilante: or an early adopter dumping his coins
2907 2011-06-19 19:08:42 <Cusipzzz> MagicalTux: or is it technically impossible to restore the bids. the bids will create stability.
2908 2011-06-19 19:08:44 <luke-jr> casascius: that isn't enough time
2909 2011-06-19 19:08:53 <pasky> i think it's plenty of time
2910 2011-06-19 19:08:53 <casascius> then more...same idea
2911 2011-06-19 19:08:55 <Kiba`> just because it is abnormal doesn't mean it is a hack
2912 2011-06-19 19:08:55 <Optimo> ericmock bitcoincharts.com always has it at the top fold
2913 2011-06-19 19:09:00 <AntiVigilante> Kiba`: it never descended to .01 it just went there
2914 2011-06-19 19:09:03 <MagicalTux> [04:07:58] <Cusipzzz> MagicalTux: or is it technically impossible to restore the bids. the bids will create stability. <- it is technically impossible
2915 2011-06-19 19:09:03 fire123 has joined
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2917 2011-06-19 19:09:06 <kunnis> casascius I'd need to be longer then that... bitcoin isn't only in the US. And not everyone sits on their computer 24/7
2918 2011-06-19 19:09:08 <briareus> so if trades are being reversed, does that kick those who bought when it was low?
2919 2011-06-19 19:09:14 <Kiba`> AntiVigilante: so?
2920 2011-06-19 19:09:15 <Cusipzzz> people have had bids at 10 or 14 for days... if no bids are restored it will quickly drop and they will lose their chance, potentially
2921 2011-06-19 19:09:30 <ShadeS> yeah
2922 2011-06-19 19:09:31 <AntiVigilante> Kiba`: that's impossible without hax
2923 2011-06-19 19:09:32 <Sangheili> MagicalTux: I don't know if I would reverse these trades. You are in essence regulating the market the moment you do and you havn't defined what your policies are towards that. Seems very arbitrary...
2924 2011-06-19 19:09:36 <Compn> MagicalTux : if it was a hacker , do you have plans in case they try again with more hacked accounts to drop a bunch of btc at .01 again (possibly from multiple accounts) ?
2925 2011-06-19 19:09:39 <Technomage> MagicalTux: announce a time for mtgox re-opening so people can prepare for bidding etc...
2926 2011-06-19 19:09:43 <Kiba`> when you sold 500K bitcoin, it will go to 0.01 cents
2927 2011-06-19 19:09:45 fujiwos has joined
2928 2011-06-19 19:09:51 <Cusipzzz> reversing the trades is the correct thing to do, but the legit bids should also be restored.
2929 2011-06-19 19:09:55 agrahamg has joined
2930 2011-06-19 19:09:56 PandaBob has joined
2931 2011-06-19 19:09:59 Nachtwind has left ()
2932 2011-06-19 19:10:01 <Kiba`> don't regulate the market
2933 2011-06-19 19:10:01 <casascius> perhaps someone stole a large number of bitcoin from mtgox? block 131886 has 500+k in volume
2934 2011-06-19 19:10:01 <thechut> when is the offical statement coming
2935 2011-06-19 19:10:02 <phearful> This is the definition of a clusterfuck
2936 2011-06-19 19:10:03 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2937 2011-06-19 19:10:07 <AntiVigilante> Kiba`: it bypassed the bids
2938 2011-06-19 19:10:11 <briareus> phearful: this is what destroys confidence.
2939 2011-06-19 19:10:13 weinerk has joined
2940 2011-06-19 19:10:17 Kiba` is now known as kiba`
2941 2011-06-19 19:10:22 <phearful> yes
2942 2011-06-19 19:10:22 <AntiVigilante> the haxors regulated the market
2943 2011-06-19 19:10:25 <davex__> Kiba`, it's not market regulation to stop a theft.
2944 2011-06-19 19:10:27 <kiba`> AntiVigilante: all the bids were fulfilled
2945 2011-06-19 19:10:30 <Herodes> briareus: yes, it could be something trying to destroy confidence.
2946 2011-06-19 19:10:33 <dude65535> Some of the bitcoins bought at .01 USD were already withdrawn to the new owners wallet according to someone on the forums. How will that be dealt with?
2947 2011-06-19 19:10:35 <jarly> this is probably the craziest day in all of bitcoin
2948 2011-06-19 19:10:35 <kiba`> davex__: are there any evidence?
2949 2011-06-19 19:10:35 bittymcbit has joined
2950 2011-06-19 19:10:37 <Herodes> or rather someone
2951 2011-06-19 19:10:38 <pasky> AntiVigilante: no bypassing happenned aiui
2952 2011-06-19 19:10:40 <erek> briareus: so what do you think will become of the bitcoin?
2953 2011-06-19 19:10:40 <davex__> kiba`, that's the question.
2954 2011-06-19 19:10:40 <Tiraspol> Wow...people are so fucking impatient...it amazes me...everyone needs to just shut the fuck up and wait for an official statement before going all apeshit...
2955 2011-06-19 19:10:47 <kiba`> jarly: a typical day for me
2956 2011-06-19 19:10:50 <dt14> https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback
2957 2011-06-19 19:10:55 Discobear has joined
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2959 2011-06-19 19:10:56 weinerk has joined
2960 2011-06-19 19:10:58 gribble has joined
2961 2011-06-19 19:10:59 <Granttt> kiba`: what do you think mtgox should do in this case ? let the market crash on an illegitimate trade they were able to spot ?
2962 2011-06-19 19:11:00 enquire has joined
2963 2011-06-19 19:11:02 <kiba`> Tiraspol: yes, please shut up, everyone
2964 2011-06-19 19:11:02 <ShadeS> Tiraspol: do you have 1000$+ in btc?
2965 2011-06-19 19:11:03 <ShadeS> i do
2966 2011-06-19 19:11:05 <grndzero> Tiraspol: there is an official statement
2967 2011-06-19 19:11:09 <ShadeS> i'm sure many others have more than a handful of change
2968 2011-06-19 19:11:11 <davex__> kiba`, mtux claims it is a hacked account, so i'm assuming he has something
2969 2011-06-19 19:11:13 <luke-jr> Granttt: it already "crashed" *and* recovered
2970 2011-06-19 19:11:15 <ShadeS> grndzero: what is it?
2971 2011-06-19 19:11:16 jutajata has joined
2972 2011-06-19 19:11:17 TommyToad has joined
2973 2011-06-19 19:11:18 <briareus> Herodes: could be = is, in the case of vendors already on the fence. they dont need more FUD--this time with data behind it
2974 2011-06-19 19:11:19 <Granttt> no it isnt
2975 2011-06-19 19:11:20 <kiba`> davex__: ok.
2976 2011-06-19 19:11:20 terrytibbs has joined
2977 2011-06-19 19:11:21 <Tiraspol> ShadeS: Yes, I do.
2978 2011-06-19 19:11:23 <humana> +m the channel
2979 2011-06-19 19:11:26 <kunnis> I'd suggest reverting the transactions, nuking all the bids, announce that the market is closed for now. Don't process trades, but re-open the site and let people place bids. Then open the market at some specified time.
2980 2011-06-19 19:11:29 <Granttt> someone got 260k bitcoins at 0.10
2981 2011-06-19 19:11:30 msb8r has joined
2982 2011-06-19 19:11:33 <Granttt> it will not recover
2983 2011-06-19 19:11:34 <samlander> luke-jr: that's promising though :)
2984 2011-06-19 19:11:34 <grndzero> An account with 500k btc was hacked and used for the selloff
2985 2011-06-19 19:11:37 wefij2cs has joined
2986 2011-06-19 19:11:46 mounte has joined
2987 2011-06-19 19:11:51 <Granttt> that someone is not online obviously
2988 2011-06-19 19:11:51 <casascius> "The $1000/day withdraw limit was active for this account and the hacker could only get out with $1000 worth of coins."...... yeah, but at the moment the last price was 0.01, that's 100000 coins
2989 2011-06-19 19:11:51 <blueadept> ha he only got $1000
2990 2011-06-19 19:11:52 <samlander> luke-jr: i theorized this is what would happen if one of the super early adopters cashed out all at once
2991 2011-06-19 19:11:52 <blueadept> newb
2992 2011-06-19 19:11:52 <manifold_> found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1X6qQt9ONg
2993 2011-06-19 19:11:57 <DiSTANT187> pasky: Thanks... this is great, I had no idea mtgox had websockets :)
2994 2011-06-19 19:11:58 <Granttt> otherwisde he'd send the market down
2995 2011-06-19 19:11:58 <kiba`> too many hacked account lately
2996 2011-06-19 19:12:07 <grndzero> now he's trying to decide whether/how to roll back the database or the transactions ...
2997 2011-06-19 19:12:16 <ShadeS> casascius: he could have transfered those coins out of mtgox
2998 2011-06-19 19:12:18 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2999 2011-06-19 19:12:18 <ShadeS> and withdrew elsewhere
3000 2011-06-19 19:12:19 <Bossland__> this is not fair, ppl with 100 btc stolen can piss off, but because an dude was stupid as hell and lost 500k coins .. there will be a rollback
3001 2011-06-19 19:12:21 <samlander> kiba: whose fault is that?
3002 2011-06-19 19:12:28 Slasklitta has joined
3003 2011-06-19 19:12:29 aristidesfl has joined
3004 2011-06-19 19:12:32 <burp_> <luke-jr> MagicalTux: better than reversing them, which could be seen by some as theft <- I totally agree, I would consider it theft
3005 2011-06-19 19:12:32 <ShadeS> wait, roll back?
3006 2011-06-19 19:12:33 <samlander> kiba: would you walk into a bank and scream out your password to everyone
3007 2011-06-19 19:12:35 <kgo> kiba`, but was it an exploit, or stupid password?
3008 2011-06-19 19:12:35 lvnyk has joined
3009 2011-06-19 19:12:37 <ShadeS> what's the official statement?
3010 2011-06-19 19:12:39 <copumpkin> Bossland__: it took the price down to 1 cent
3011 2011-06-19 19:12:42 <copumpkin> Bossland__: it's a bit more disruptive
3012 2011-06-19 19:12:44 flykoko2 has joined
3013 2011-06-19 19:12:44 <Bossland__> who cares
3014 2011-06-19 19:12:46 <burp_> Bossland__: I agree
3015 2011-06-19 19:12:48 <samlander> kiba: people need to take personal accountability for thier own actions
3016 2011-06-19 19:12:48 <Bossland__> this is an free market
3017 2011-06-19 19:12:49 <briareus> ShadeS: official statement is coming.
3018 2011-06-19 19:12:50 fairy44 has joined
3019 2011-06-19 19:12:51 <pirrr> https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback
3020 2011-06-19 19:12:51 <luke-jr> ShadeS: https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback
3021 2011-06-19 19:12:53 <kiba`> samlander: seems to me that MagicalTux have to secure an amteaurly done website?
3022 2011-06-19 19:12:54 <Cusipzzz> guys. every major exchange reverses trades in situations like this
3023 2011-06-19 19:12:55 <upb> lol wtf, so mtgox is flashbacking the db ?
3024 2011-06-19 19:12:57 Bossland__ is now known as Bossland
3025 2011-06-19 19:12:59 <samlander> kiba: the person who got hacked is *luckey* MT is reversing shit
3026 2011-06-19 19:13:01 <Herodes> samlander: +1
3027 2011-06-19 19:13:02 <bitsnbytes> shades see https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback
3028 2011-06-19 19:13:14 <upb> ahahhaha
3029 2011-06-19 19:13:14 <AntiVigilante> Bossland__: a free market is one where you can sell at ANY price
3030 2011-06-19 19:13:15 <cprompt> Every major exchange is regulated by a government.
3031 2011-06-19 19:13:17 <upb> how stupid
3032 2011-06-19 19:13:18 <bitsnbytes> OFFICIAL STATEMENT https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback
3033 2011-06-19 19:13:21 <BabyGeek> MagicalTux: you're the best webmaster i ever seen :) Thanks to rollback the trades.
3034 2011-06-19 19:13:23 <Technomage> this is totally the right thing to do.
3035 2011-06-19 19:13:25 <ius> samlander: And all the small fish getting 'hacked' got screwed over
3036 2011-06-19 19:13:25 gribble has joined
3037 2011-06-19 19:13:26 <kiba`> ok
3038 2011-06-19 19:13:26 <grndzero> upb: looks like it
3039 2011-06-19 19:13:29 <upb> no it isnt
3040 2011-06-19 19:13:29 <kiba`> an offical statement
3041 2011-06-19 19:13:31 <upb> wtf
3042 2011-06-19 19:13:32 <ShadeS> can we /topic the official statement?
3043 2011-06-19 19:13:32 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3044 2011-06-19 19:13:34 <AntiVigilante> An exchange is not a free market
3045 2011-06-19 19:13:35 <Technomage> anything other than rollback would look unprofessional to say the least
3046 2011-06-19 19:13:35 <burp_> if the rollback really happens mtgox will become unsound
3047 2011-06-19 19:13:45 <samlander> ius: so what
3048 2011-06-19 19:13:46 <luke-jr> BabyGeek: and what about the 100s of accounts who are being basically stolen from by the rollback?
3049 2011-06-19 19:13:47 WildSoil has joined
3050 2011-06-19 19:13:48 lipjes has joined
3051 2011-06-19 19:13:48 GuitarJJ has joined
3052 2011-06-19 19:13:56 <viggi> This is #bitcoin-dev not #bitcoin or whatever :f
3053 2011-06-19 19:13:57 <AntiVigilante> burp_ .01 is sound?
3054 2011-06-19 19:13:58 Incitatus has joined
3055 2011-06-19 19:14:11 <samlander> AntiVigilante: it was 13 before it went down
3056 2011-06-19 19:14:11 <elnato> mtgox is unsound either way this is the best option they have
3057 2011-06-19 19:14:14 <samlander> AntiVigilante: that is promising
3058 2011-06-19 19:14:18 <Herodes> "The $1000/day withdraw limit was active for this account and the hacker could only get out with $1000 worth of coins." From the official statement.
3059 2011-06-19 19:14:19 mtgox_sucks_donk has joined
3060 2011-06-19 19:14:21 <doofus2> wait so if my bid was filled by the massive selloff i don't get those coins?
3061 2011-06-19 19:14:21 <Herodes> Haha. sucker hacker.
3062 2011-06-19 19:14:23 <Cusipzzz> MagicalTux: please consider rolling back the order book as well. people with low bids should have them auto-restored for fairness
3063 2011-06-19 19:14:23 <samlander> AntiVigilante: an immediate crash followed by immediate recovery
3064 2011-06-19 19:14:25 <upb> if the php crap didnt have a trigger the freeze the market then
3065 2011-06-19 19:14:25 <Compn> Bossland : rolling back the smaller 100 btc wont help because it was probably under the $1000 limit. the 500k guy still lost his $1000 worth (which was really a lot)
3066 2011-06-19 19:14:25 wops has joined
3067 2011-06-19 19:14:27 <upb> why rollback now
3068 2011-06-19 19:14:29 <Bossland> what is with all other compromissed accounts with 1 - 100 bitcoins
3069 2011-06-19 19:14:31 <luke-jr> I think one question needs to be answered: how did they account get "hacked"? a weak password? vulnerabilities in the software?
3070 2011-06-19 19:14:32 <burp_> well, I will definitely stop using mtgox if transactions are reversed because of stolen single accounts
3071 2011-06-19 19:14:41 <burp_> luke-jr: that is the question
3072 2011-06-19 19:14:44 <luke-jr> Cusipzzz: he already said it was impossible
3073 2011-06-19 19:14:47 fimp has joined
3074 2011-06-19 19:14:48 <Bossland> whats about the guys that bought at 0.01
3075 2011-06-19 19:14:52 <burp_> luke-jr: if it's because of a weak password then nothing should happen
3076 2011-06-19 19:14:53 <samlander> brup: that's your choice
3077 2011-06-19 19:14:53 <humana> that statement is a bit shitty, $1000 worth of coins AT 0.01 that's a lot of fucking coins.
3078 2011-06-19 19:14:53 _b__ has joined
3079 2011-06-19 19:14:54 <Bossland> they lost a fortune
3080 2011-06-19 19:14:55 <AntiVigilante> doofus2: if you had sex in your sleep would you care
3081 2011-06-19 19:14:57 <samlander> burp: have fun withthat
3082 2011-06-19 19:15:01 <casascius> Block 131886....Holy Shit
3083 2011-06-19 19:15:01 <burp_> luke-jr: if it's because of a software vulnerability, it should be rolled back
3084 2011-06-19 19:15:06 <Cusipzzz> luke-jr: ah, i see.. thanks
3085 2011-06-19 19:15:09 <Technomage> the accounts that bought low because of this bought stolen money, it's the right thing to do - rollback I mean.
3086 2011-06-19 19:15:11 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3087 2011-06-19 19:15:13 <luke-jr> "rollback" means the 100s of accounts who legitimately made money get punished
3088 2011-06-19 19:15:17 <ShadeS> why was 17.5$ arbitrarily picked?
3089 2011-06-19 19:15:21 <upb> luke-jr: exactly
3090 2011-06-19 19:15:25 <Technomage> they legitimately bought illegitimate money
3091 2011-06-19 19:15:30 gribble has joined
3092 2011-06-19 19:15:31 <Granttt> to all of you who are opposed to a reversal: what if you were the people who bought at 17 ? wouldnt you like to have an obviously illegitimate trade reversed ?
3093 2011-06-19 19:15:31 <Cusipzzz> luke-jr: he should be able to restore 99% of the order book from a backup..
3094 2011-06-19 19:15:32 <Compn> luke-jr : how do you legitamitely buy stolen funds ?
3095 2011-06-19 19:15:38 <samlander> shade:that was the value right before the selloff
3096 2011-06-19 19:15:41 gbt has joined
3097 2011-06-19 19:15:41 <Technomage> Compn: indeed :D
3098 2011-06-19 19:15:41 <luke-jr> Technomage: bitcoins are bitcoins
3099 2011-06-19 19:15:42 <Bossland> if i happen to lose 1 BTC i will call mtgox to rollback and gief me may maned back!
3100 2011-06-19 19:15:46 <AntiVigilante> luke-jrno one is punished they are free to make those trades again
3101 2011-06-19 19:15:46 <Compn> Technomage beat me
3102 2011-06-19 19:15:46 <Bossland> maney
3103 2011-06-19 19:15:49 <humana> ShadeS, because 0.65% at 17.5 is a lot better for business than at 12
3104 2011-06-19 19:15:49 <elnato> luke-jr made money because of a hacker,
3105 2011-06-19 19:15:55 <oneohoneohfive> so i wonder how the people who sold (and the buyer immediately withdrew) are going to be reimbursed
3106 2011-06-19 19:15:56 <doofus2> antivigilante: you're a dick.
3107 2011-06-19 19:15:58 corlibro has joined
3108 2011-06-19 19:16:00 ertcybhion has joined
3109 2011-06-19 19:16:12 Mess has joined
3110 2011-06-19 19:16:14 <upb> Compn: like you can legitimately buy other stolen goods
3111 2011-06-19 19:16:17 doofus2 has left ()
3112 2011-06-19 19:16:19 justme has joined
3113 2011-06-19 19:16:23 kiba` is now known as kiba
3114 2011-06-19 19:16:23 <Compn> upb : at police auction? lol
3115 2011-06-19 19:16:26 <oneohoneohfive> does anyone have an answer to this?
3116 2011-06-19 19:16:26 <burp_> what about the other market places that were affected by the mtgox market?
3117 2011-06-19 19:16:26 <upb> no
3118 2011-06-19 19:16:27 <andyfletcher> not so many managed to withdraw as it all fell over
3119 2011-06-19 19:16:30 <burp_> these can't get rolled back!
3120 2011-06-19 19:16:32 <phearful> The real question is, who has 500,000 BTC.
3121 2011-06-19 19:16:39 <Bossland> uob: Like BTC was made to be regulated ...
3122 2011-06-19 19:16:40 <kunnis> upb But if yo know it's stolen, you can't. Possition of stolen property is illegal (At least in the us)
3123 2011-06-19 19:16:43 hmmmm has joined
3124 2011-06-19 19:16:44 <andyfletcher> mtgox at the moment
3125 2011-06-19 19:16:45 justme is now known as Guest44723
3126 2011-06-19 19:16:50 <luke-jr> kunnis: nobody knew it was stolen
3127 2011-06-19 19:16:52 <upb> kunnis: exactly!
3128 2011-06-19 19:16:53 <casascius> The 432109.87654321 transaction was spent to dispense 32.11???? (block 131886, 1st transaction after generation)
3129 2011-06-19 19:16:54 <kiba> mtgox sure get hacked a lot
3130 2011-06-19 19:17:01 <upb> the people who bought at 0.01 didnt know it was stolen
3131 2011-06-19 19:17:01 <ShadeS> kunnis: even if you don't know it's stolen it's still illegal
3132 2011-06-19 19:17:05 <purrr> bitcoincharts.com down too ?
3133 2011-06-19 19:17:06 <jarly> kunnis: true, although mtgox isn't under US jurisdiction
3134 2011-06-19 19:17:08 joebitcoin1 has joined
3135 2011-06-19 19:17:12 <corlibro> is there even an address with 500000btc in the chain?
3136 2011-06-19 19:17:15 <oneohoneohfive> andyfletcher: are we sure about that?
3137 2011-06-19 19:17:22 <AntiVigilante> All the pussies are going to leave, I can't be happier
3138 2011-06-19 19:17:28 <oneohoneohfive> that not many people withdrew immediately after buying at 0.01?
3139 2011-06-19 19:17:30 <luke-jr> once you buy it, it's yours. the theft is between the theif and the original owner to work out.
3140 2011-06-19 19:17:32 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3141 2011-06-19 19:17:38 <upb> yep
3142 2011-06-19 19:17:45 <kunnis> upb Now that you know it's stolen, you're not allowed to keep it. (and yes I'm aware this doesn't fall under us law, but I'm using it as a guideline)
3143 2011-06-19 19:17:50 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
3144 2011-06-19 19:17:50 <Compn> luke-jr : so if someone sells your wallet.dat you'd be cool with it ?
3145 2011-06-19 19:17:51 cronopio has quit (Quit: leaving)
3146 2011-06-19 19:17:53 farketuhelio has joined
3147 2011-06-19 19:17:58 <upb> hahahah what kind of world do you live in kunnis :P
3148 2011-06-19 19:17:58 <mtgox_sucks_donk> Was is a site vulnerability or a compromised password?
3149 2011-06-19 19:18:04 freeminer has joined
3150 2011-06-19 19:18:06 <luke-jr> Compn: nope
3151 2011-06-19 19:18:25 <burp_> Compn: it's not about a single stolen thing
3152 2011-06-19 19:18:29 <AntiVigilante> mtgox_sucks_donk: vuln probly led to compr acct
3153 2011-06-19 19:18:31 <oneohoneohfive> probably either a trojan pw bot or a shared site password phish
3154 2011-06-19 19:18:32 <burp_> Compn: it's about rolling back transactions
3155 2011-06-19 19:18:39 <burp_> Compn: many transactions after this
3156 2011-06-19 19:18:40 <cosurgi> corlibro: blockexplorer is kind of ddosed, so I can't check for sure, but I think it was this one: http://blockexplorer.com/address/18T3AFPJ2sTu6ti7gGj5x52uzJNmVFw9y9
3157 2011-06-19 19:18:46 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3158 2011-06-19 19:18:51 <Compn> burp_ : ah yeah i see your point
3159 2011-06-19 19:18:52 <burp_> Compn: and not just transactions that had to do with the stolen account
3160 2011-06-19 19:18:52 <kunnis> upb Legally, that's what's supposed to happen. If you have proof that you own an item, and you take it to a pawn shop where they are selling the item, and you show a police report saying it was stolen, they are required to give it back to you.
3161 2011-06-19 19:18:53 testuser has joined
3162 2011-06-19 19:18:54 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: you're retarded for wanting to roll that back
3163 2011-06-19 19:18:54 <luke-jr> since all cash has been stolen at some point, nobody has any cash?
3164 2011-06-19 19:19:04 jogis has joined
3165 2011-06-19 19:19:06 hwolf has joined
3166 2011-06-19 19:19:07 inktri has joined
3167 2011-06-19 19:19:09 <burp_> Compn: there were other people panic selling, and other people buying this
3168 2011-06-19 19:19:12 <Compn> right
3169 2011-06-19 19:19:16 lorenzoIT_ has joined
3170 2011-06-19 19:19:22 gribble has joined
3171 2011-06-19 19:19:28 <Compn> burp_ : just means you shouldnt deal with mtgox if you dont like their ability to rollback :P
3172 2011-06-19 19:19:33 <kiba> Jesus, lot of secure problem at mtgox
3173 2011-06-19 19:19:34 <burp_> Compn: yep
3174 2011-06-19 19:19:36 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: rolling back all trades for 24 hours because one tard had a bad password is not acceptable exchange behaviour
3175 2011-06-19 19:19:39 <ShadeS> burp_: it didn't have to eb panic selling it could have been an order put in months ago
3176 2011-06-19 19:19:40 <burp_> Compn: that's my consequence
3177 2011-06-19 19:19:43 <jogis> Compn: yeah, too bad they have a monopoly :)
3178 2011-06-19 19:19:44 <jarly> so will the market go up or will mtgox go down because of the roll-back?
3179 2011-06-19 19:19:50 <burp_> ShadeS: yes
3180 2011-06-19 19:19:51 <kobach> mtgox_sucks_donk: if you dont like mtgox then dont use it
3181 2011-06-19 19:19:52 jutajata has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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3183 2011-06-19 19:19:52 retractiverrchip has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3184 2011-06-19 19:19:52 qwebirc627866 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3185 2011-06-19 19:19:58 <upb> i hope it will go down to the place where noone uses it ;)
3186 2011-06-19 19:20:00 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: do we know it was a weak password issue?
3187 2011-06-19 19:20:00 lyspooner has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3188 2011-06-19 19:20:00 <burp_> ShadeS: makes the rollback even worse
3189 2011-06-19 19:20:03 <DaQatz> jrmithdobbs, it is when it had a huge market impact.
3190 2011-06-19 19:20:05 <Compn> jogis : i dont see any barrier for entry in this bank market thing :P
3191 2011-06-19 19:20:05 <jarly> jrmithdobbs: i tink someone used the CSRF exploit
3192 2011-06-19 19:20:13 FellowTraveler has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3193 2011-06-19 19:20:14 <wumpus> the rollback sounds like a good idea to me, obviously this hack shouldn't happened, and it's not clear yet howthey got the mtgox passwords
3194 2011-06-19 19:20:14 polakmaly has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3195 2011-06-19 19:20:14 bitanon has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3196 2011-06-19 19:20:15 <ShadeS> 'th' ?
3197 2011-06-19 19:20:18 <ShadeS> there's more than one
3198 2011-06-19 19:20:18 <Compn> aside from a few programmers and bank accounts :)
3199 2011-06-19 19:20:18 <kiba> wasn't the CSRF exploit fixed long ago?
3200 2011-06-19 19:20:20 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: unless he states otherwise publically that is what I will continue assuming
3201 2011-06-19 19:20:24 <jogis> Compn: well, liquidity is the barrier
3202 2011-06-19 19:20:27 <ius> Or SQLi. You never know eh ;)
3203 2011-06-19 19:20:27 <freeminer> rollback all trades... What about added bitcoins during the panic?
3204 2011-06-19 19:20:37 Guest44723 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3205 2011-06-19 19:20:37 netrin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3206 2011-06-19 19:20:37 lorenzoIT has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3207 2011-06-19 19:20:39 <DavidSJ> kiba: a few days ago. But maybe someone saved the cookie.
3208 2011-06-19 19:20:45 ali1234 has joined
3209 2011-06-19 19:20:46 <phearful> all I know is, MagicalTux is lying about something.
3210 2011-06-19 19:20:46 <Maged> The database has been hacked and leaked
3211 2011-06-19 19:20:48 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: either way it's an unacceptable response.
3212 2011-06-19 19:20:50 <briareus> phearful: why?
3213 2011-06-19 19:20:50 cprompt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3214 2011-06-19 19:20:51 <luke-jr> if someone uses a weak password, they should take the responsibility
3215 2011-06-19 19:20:53 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
3216 2011-06-19 19:20:57 FellowTraveler has joined
3217 2011-06-19 19:20:57 Alex_- has joined
3218 2011-06-19 19:20:58 <briareus> luke-jr: agreed.
3219 2011-06-19 19:20:58 wops has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3220 2011-06-19 19:21:00 <viggi> phearful: And illuminati.
3221 2011-06-19 19:21:02 <DavidSJ> Although mtgox does log you out atter inactivity. Maybe they stayed active...
3222 2011-06-19 19:21:02 <phearful> nobody has 500k bitcoins. someone hacked mtgox and did a cumulative dump
3223 2011-06-19 19:21:04 <wumpus> freeminer: added bitcoins aren't part of trades so they stay
3224 2011-06-19 19:21:06 <ShadeS> MagicalTux: I put in $500 from my dwolla just before you took it offline. That money should still be there when it comes back up, right?
3225 2011-06-19 19:21:07 <samlander> luke: agreed
3226 2011-06-19 19:21:08 <kiba> we don't know how the mtgox account is hacked
3227 2011-06-19 19:21:08 <AntiVigilante> Maged: that leak was bullshit
3228 2011-06-19 19:21:08 <samlander> 8 is good
3229 2011-06-19 19:21:10 <samlander> 12 is better
3230 2011-06-19 19:21:10 <phearful> not from one account
3231 2011-06-19 19:21:14 <Maged> https://rapidshare.com/files/1969319443/accounts.csv
3232 2011-06-19 19:21:14 <luke-jr> DavidSJ: there's a logoout link
3233 2011-06-19 19:21:15 <BabyGeek> MagiculTux: i think you must be more vigilant with people who have $ 20,000 + in their MtGox account (SMS confirmation code...)
3234 2011-06-19 19:21:16 <samlander> symbols and alpha
3235 2011-06-19 19:21:18 nazgulnarsil has joined
3236 2011-06-19 19:21:18 <Maged> It's legit
3237 2011-06-19 19:21:20 innervisi0nn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3238 2011-06-19 19:21:20 ulee has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3239 2011-06-19 19:21:21 <wumpus> kiba: +1
3240 2011-06-19 19:21:25 <MagicalTux> ShadeS: yep
3241 2011-06-19 19:21:25 amod has joined
3242 2011-06-19 19:21:27 <ShadeS> BabyGeek: not everyone has SMS
3243 2011-06-19 19:21:33 <ShadeS> i for example, do not, because of wher ei am
3244 2011-06-19 19:21:38 <DavidSJ> luke-jr: sure. But we don't know the user clicked it. Also, maybe there was another CSRF vulnerability mtgox *didn't* fix.
3245 2011-06-19 19:21:41 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: pretty sure him reverting all trades for 24 hours is illegal
3246 2011-06-19 19:21:42 wefij2cs has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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3248 2011-06-19 19:21:42 Raulo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3249 2011-06-19 19:21:43 <kiba> phearful: it is not possible to know who have 500K if the owner in question do not reveal that he owned 500 K
3250 2011-06-19 19:21:43 triplex has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3251 2011-06-19 19:21:43 Neocryptek_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3252 2011-06-19 19:21:43 Mess has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3253 2011-06-19 19:21:52 <hwolf> my guess is a government backed hacker group was commissioned to disrupt bitcoin
3254 2011-06-19 19:21:53 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: no matter the initial cause
3255 2011-06-19 19:21:57 <luke-jr> MagicalTux: how was the account 'hacked'?
3256 2011-06-19 19:21:57 Compn has left ()
3257 2011-06-19 19:21:58 <ShadeS> MagicalTux: good to hear
3258 2011-06-19 19:22:00 pmazur has joined
3259 2011-06-19 19:22:01 <BabyGeek> ShadeS: SMS is an example, i think there's a lot of other solution to do this..
3260 2011-06-19 19:22:01 gribble has joined
3261 2011-06-19 19:22:03 <Technomage> MagicalTux: thoughts on this? http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19543.0
3262 2011-06-19 19:22:05 <lnet> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19543.0 <-- This is real...
3263 2011-06-19 19:22:05 <DiSTANT187> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19543.0 <-- fucking wow
3264 2011-06-19 19:22:12 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: hope you get sued into poverty if you go through with this rollback
3265 2011-06-19 19:22:14 ketsa has joined
3266 2011-06-19 19:22:15 <jrmithdobbs> unacceptable.
3267 2011-06-19 19:22:19 <lnet> Just found my account in the CSV file :(((
3268 2011-06-19 19:22:21 <upb> so do i
3269 2011-06-19 19:22:22 <kiba> luke-jr: you do know that MagicalTux is a very busy man. You are DDOSing him.
3270 2011-06-19 19:22:22 <AntiVigilante> TO ALL THE PUSSIES
3271 2011-06-19 19:22:24 erik__ has joined
3272 2011-06-19 19:22:36 <ShadeS> jrmithdobbs: did you make a million dolalrs on this plumet?
3273 2011-06-19 19:22:37 <KuDeTa> fuckin WOW
3274 2011-06-19 19:22:40 GuitarJJ has quit (Quit: http://irc2go.com/)
3275 2011-06-19 19:22:41 <AntiVigilante> IF YOUR KEYS WERE STOLEN WHOSE CAR IS IT?
3276 2011-06-19 19:22:42 <luke-jr> kiba: I'm asking a question.
3277 2011-06-19 19:22:43 testuser has quit (Client Quit)
3278 2011-06-19 19:22:50 <jrmithdobbs> ShadeS: imade $0 as i wasn't watching it
3279 2011-06-19 19:22:51 <luke-jr> kiba: using a service != denial of service
3280 2011-06-19 19:22:52 <ali1234> hey so does that dump have plaintext passwords?
3281 2011-06-19 19:22:54 ertcybhion has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3282 2011-06-19 19:22:59 <kiba> yes, and there will be many people asking questions too
3283 2011-06-19 19:22:59 <upb> AntiVigilante: if a stolen car was sold at an exchange, you dont rollback the exchange
3284 2011-06-19 19:23:01 <Alex_-> Insti: where is the CSV file?
3285 2011-06-19 19:23:10 <phearful> https://rapidshare.com/#!download|359tg2|1969319443|accounts.csv|4023
3286 2011-06-19 19:23:12 <Alex_-> inet
3287 2011-06-19 19:23:15 <ShadeS> Whoa?!
3288 2011-06-19 19:23:15 <nazgulnarsil> PLN and EUR exchanges dont seem to be panicking. I think distributed works :-)
3289 2011-06-19 19:23:16 <Shuddertrix> no, the dump has hashed passwords
3290 2011-06-19 19:23:18 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
3291 2011-06-19 19:23:19 sblinda has joined
3292 2011-06-19 19:23:24 <hwolf> if an exchange was "stole" yes you roll it back
3293 2011-06-19 19:23:29 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
3294 2011-06-19 19:23:31 <OVerLoRDI> phearful what is that link to?
3295 2011-06-19 19:23:39 <ShadeS> this database dump is real?????
3296 2011-06-19 19:23:42 <lnet> yes
3297 2011-06-19 19:23:42 <phearful> DB dump
3298 2011-06-19 19:23:43 <DiSTANT187> yes
3299 2011-06-19 19:23:43 <ShadeS> when can I change my password?!?
3300 2011-06-19 19:23:45 <phantomcircuit> "Trust me, if we had a problem in Mt.Gox and it was actively exploited, we'd have way more than a dozen compromised accounts."
3301 2011-06-19 19:23:47 <kiba> could be a trojan
3302 2011-06-19 19:23:48 <upb> ahahhaha
3303 2011-06-19 19:23:56 <samlander> oi
3304 2011-06-19 19:23:58 <phearful> there is no trojan in csv
3305 2011-06-19 19:23:59 <jogis> ShadeS: tomorrow, when mtgox is up again
3306 2011-06-19 19:24:08 <AntiVigilante> Freedom is what you can DO not What you can HAVE
3307 2011-06-19 19:24:13 gfchvjb has joined
3308 2011-06-19 19:24:14 <TD> unfortunately, it's possible to reverse password hashes at high speed with video cards (obviously)
3309 2011-06-19 19:24:15 s13013 has joined
3310 2011-06-19 19:24:16 <kiba> phearful: I am fearful of every download file
3311 2011-06-19 19:24:19 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: pretty sure rolling back is a violation of trade laws in multiple countries that you do business in
3312 2011-06-19 19:24:22 <TD> so if hashes have leaked all account passwords will need to be change
3313 2011-06-19 19:24:22 <hwolf> maybe mtgox will reset all passwords and cause an email lost password link
3314 2011-06-19 19:24:25 <lnet> MagicalTux can you also make a statement on http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19543.0 ?
3315 2011-06-19 19:24:26 <AntiVigilante> I can't wait to see all the pussies gone
3316 2011-06-19 19:24:26 <BabyGeek> is there a trojan is .csv file ?
3317 2011-06-19 19:24:28 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: you better consult your lawyers (that you don't have)
3318 2011-06-19 19:24:32 HiddenDuck has joined
3319 2011-06-19 19:24:32 <kiba> jrmithdobbs: citations needed
3320 2011-06-19 19:24:32 <phearful> u cannot put trojan in .csv
3321 2011-06-19 19:24:32 <phearful> lol
3322 2011-06-19 19:24:33 <upb> TD: are the hashes even salted ?:P
3323 2011-06-19 19:24:35 <Tiraspol> wow
3324 2011-06-19 19:24:40 <Tiraspol> I found myself in the cvs file...
3325 2011-06-19 19:24:42 <ShadeS> are the hashes salted???
3326 2011-06-19 19:24:42 <Tiraspol> fuckin A
3327 2011-06-19 19:24:45 <AntiVigilante> hashes are salted
3328 2011-06-19 19:24:45 <ShadeS> ^^^^^
3329 2011-06-19 19:24:46 <upb> if not it can be done with just a big dict
3330 2011-06-19 19:24:46 <KuDeTa> i found myself too!!
3331 2011-06-19 19:24:47 <nazgulnarsil> jrmithdobbs you dont know what you're talking about. rollbacks happen all the time when fraud is discovered
3332 2011-06-19 19:24:48 <hmmmm> ahem
3333 2011-06-19 19:24:48 <ius> MagicalTux: So, perhaps you SHOULD have at least issued a password reset after the SQLi? You've now lost the game it seems
3334 2011-06-19 19:24:49 gribble has joined
3335 2011-06-19 19:24:52 <mtrlt> well, it has every account DUH
3336 2011-06-19 19:24:55 <hmmmm> how can anybody be sued over this
3337 2011-06-19 19:24:58 <DiSTANT187> they had better be
3338 2011-06-19 19:24:59 <KuDeTa> are they salted???
3339 2011-06-19 19:25:00 <vegard> so was the hacked account actually cracked from the db dump?
3340 2011-06-19 19:25:00 <flykoko2> it's trivial to find the salt after cracking a few easy passwords
3341 2011-06-19 19:25:02 <ius> KuDeTa: Yes
3342 2011-06-19 19:25:03 <hmmmm> it's technically toy money
3343 2011-06-19 19:25:04 jutajata has joined
3344 2011-06-19 19:25:08 <hmmmm> not protected or backed by anything
3345 2011-06-19 19:25:11 <jrmithdobbs> nazgulnarsil: please show me the last time nyse rolled back 24 hours because one person's holding got stolen.
3346 2011-06-19 19:25:11 <ius> flykoko2: Per-password salt, iirc
3347 2011-06-19 19:25:13 <hwolf> jrmithdobbs: can you be a little more productive
3348 2011-06-19 19:25:15 <hmmmm> your own damn fault if you lose a transaction
3349 2011-06-19 19:25:15 <kunnis> hwolf I don't have an email set for my account.
3350 2011-06-19 19:25:15 <upb> flykoko2: obv the sat needs to per pass lol
3351 2011-06-19 19:25:17 <BabyGeek> i had 0.01$ in my MtGox account, if i find it in the csv file, i will laught.
3352 2011-06-19 19:25:21 xlcus has joined
3353 2011-06-19 19:25:29 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3354 2011-06-19 19:25:29 <ShadeS> i have a fair amount in there
3355 2011-06-19 19:25:29 <kunnis> nazgulnarsil They do it for indivual accounts
3356 2011-06-19 19:25:30 <AntiVigilante> Right now Bitcoin is backed by PUSSIES
3357 2011-06-19 19:25:31 <briareus> ius KuDeTa !!
3358 2011-06-19 19:25:31 <ius> BabyGeek: Username?
3359 2011-06-19 19:25:35 <kiba> I have nothing in my mtgox account
3360 2011-06-19 19:25:38 <ShadeS> i need to change my password as soon as possible
3361 2011-06-19 19:25:39 <kunnis> nazgulnarsil They do it for indivual *trades*, sorry.
3362 2011-06-19 19:25:43 DrizzlePistol has joined
3363 2011-06-19 19:25:45 <eps> rollback transactions?
3364 2011-06-19 19:25:47 <terrytibbs> tux - you are going down, both as a person, and as a company
3365 2011-06-19 19:25:48 <eps> this is nuts...
3366 2011-06-19 19:25:52 <corlibro> damn rapidshare makes me wait...
3367 2011-06-19 19:25:59 <briareus> terrytibbs: why would you say that.
3368 2011-06-19 19:25:59 <DiSTANT187> do the ifile link
3369 2011-06-19 19:26:01 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
3370 2011-06-19 19:26:01 [Zusje] has joined
3371 2011-06-19 19:26:02 <DiSTANT187> way faster
3372 2011-06-19 19:26:02 <kiba> rapidshare is rapidshit
3373 2011-06-19 19:26:07 ssalxs has joined
3374 2011-06-19 19:26:09 <nazgulnarsil> if 1/12 of the entire stock market issued a sell at the same time they would shut it down and rollback. you guys are retards
3375 2011-06-19 19:26:12 <AntiVigilante> Terrytibs you want to tangle with me first?
3376 2011-06-19 19:26:15 <hmmmm> ,,9f6d eac7 1488 8fb6 d158 6891 748f 3877
3377 2011-06-19 19:26:16 <upb> so why has this turned into #bitcoin-makeyourownexchangeinmysql-and-get-burned :P
3378 2011-06-19 19:26:17 TimeRunner has joined
3379 2011-06-19 19:26:18 <hmmmm> lol md5
3380 2011-06-19 19:26:19 <phearful> THIS IS SO FUCKED UP MAN THIS IS WHAT HAPPEN SWHEN WE FUCK AROUND IN UNREGULATED MARKETS
3381 2011-06-19 19:26:23 <hmmmm> morons
3382 2011-06-19 19:26:27 erek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3383 2011-06-19 19:26:29 <jrmithdobbs> take this shit to #bitcoin please
3384 2011-06-19 19:26:30 <kobach> jrmithdobbs shut the fuck up
3385 2011-06-19 19:26:32 DrizzlePistol has quit (Client Quit)
3386 2011-06-19 19:26:34 <grndzero> it's faster from the other link .. and my account is in there
3387 2011-06-19 19:26:36 <phantomcircuit> those are fucking md5 hashes
3388 2011-06-19 19:26:37 MRD_ has joined
3389 2011-06-19 19:26:39 <phantomcircuit> what the fuck
3390 2011-06-19 19:26:39 <hmmmm> i know
3391 2011-06-19 19:26:39 Nyken has joined
3392 2011-06-19 19:26:43 <kiba> phearful: this is when we fuck around in EMERGING MARKET
3393 2011-06-19 19:26:44 Neocryptek_ has joined
3394 2011-06-19 19:26:45 <hwolf> I for one am glad we dont have some lame nanny goverment trying to keep us safe
3395 2011-06-19 19:26:45 <DiSTANT187> my account is in there too
3396 2011-06-19 19:26:47 <hmmmm> the idiocy is strong here
3397 2011-06-19 19:26:51 ali1234 has left ()
3398 2011-06-19 19:26:53 <phantomcircuit> http://ifile.it/a3kl16j
3399 2011-06-19 19:26:59 <hmmmm> every one of those are easily crackable
3400 2011-06-19 19:27:04 <Netsniper> "the idiocy is storng with this one"
3401 2011-06-19 19:27:05 <kiba> WHERE everyone knows shit
3402 2011-06-19 19:27:05 erek has joined
3403 2011-06-19 19:27:08 <ketsa> now we see all the security problems with bitcoins, how will you revert trades when people already withdrew their coins ?
3404 2011-06-19 19:27:08 <hmmmm> especially with the average power of hardware a bitcoin miner has
3405 2011-06-19 19:27:12 gribble has joined
3406 2011-06-19 19:27:14 <luke-jr> hmmmm: they're seeded
3407 2011-06-19 19:27:15 <nazgulnarsil> you guys wil still be arguing about this a week from now.
3408 2011-06-19 19:27:16 <AntiVigilante> The smell of PUSSY is strong in here
3409 2011-06-19 19:27:16 <ius> hmmmm: What would be the chance someone related to bitcoin would have a few cards eh
3410 2011-06-19 19:27:18 <hmmmm> doesn't matter.
3411 2011-06-19 19:27:19 <ius> :p
3412 2011-06-19 19:27:20 nazgulnarsil has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3413 2011-06-19 19:27:23 <Bossland> 61.020 accounts
3414 2011-06-19 19:27:25 <OVerLoRDI> at least the passwords are encrypted
3415 2011-06-19 19:27:26 <hmmmm> it's not worth a shit
3416 2011-06-19 19:27:29 <luke-jr> hmmmm: it's as "easy" as cracking a Bitcoin address
3417 2011-06-19 19:27:34 <hmmmm> you should've gone with something much stronger
3418 2011-06-19 19:27:34 <picci> lol, so what's the hashing algo ?
3419 2011-06-19 19:27:36 <joepie91> "I told you so"
3420 2011-06-19 19:27:37 <luke-jr> except for weak passwords
3421 2011-06-19 19:27:37 <phearful> 61,000 ?
3422 2011-06-19 19:27:43 <hmmmm> sha256
3423 2011-06-19 19:27:44 <Bossland> 26852 Bossland zwetan@honorbuddy.com $1$a0Ssz9eC$rPpF.zXEi5xOnvvfdAlsr0
3424 2011-06-19 19:27:49 <Bossland> i am on that list !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3425 2011-06-19 19:27:50 <kiba> the press will have a field day with this
3426 2011-06-19 19:27:51 <briareus> joepie91 ;)
3427 2011-06-19 19:27:58 <briareus> Bossland: what does that mean to you?
3428 2011-06-19 19:27:58 <Bossland> wtf ...
3429 2011-06-19 19:27:58 sherpishoru has joined
3430 2011-06-19 19:28:02 <TD> AntiVigilante: still think running your own auth system is a good plan?
3431 2011-06-19 19:28:03 <phearful> the press doesnt even understand what is happening
3432 2011-06-19 19:28:03 <hwolf> no such thing as bad press
3433 2011-06-19 19:28:06 <Bossland> this is an WHOLE database LEAK
3434 2011-06-19 19:28:11 <G5> But is the encryption good?
3435 2011-06-19 19:28:11 <wumpus> luckily I took out all my coins out of mtgox when the hacks started
3436 2011-06-19 19:28:13 <Bossland> i am registered since 2-3 weeks
3437 2011-06-19 19:28:16 <hwolf> I would guess a bunch of new exchanges will pop up now
3438 2011-06-19 19:28:18 <hwolf> good!
3439 2011-06-19 19:28:19 <anu> kiba: there is no such thing as bad press
3440 2011-06-19 19:28:19 <hmmmm> luke-jr, that's 2^64 hashes to compute in order to crack one, worst possible case
3441 2011-06-19 19:28:20 <briareus> Bossland: where did you find it?
3442 2011-06-19 19:28:22 <G5> I have a really password ...
3443 2011-06-19 19:28:28 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
3444 2011-06-19 19:28:29 <Bossland> in the csv ..
3445 2011-06-19 19:28:30 Lenovo01 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3446 2011-06-19 19:28:32 <kiba> wumpus: me too. NOthing in my account
3447 2011-06-19 19:28:36 <Optimo> more exchanges for sure
3448 2011-06-19 19:28:42 <Optimo> exchange protocol
3449 2011-06-19 19:28:52 <upb> 24072,abuse,abuse@1.0.2.5.8.1.d.0.0.5.8.5.2.0.0.2.ip6.arpa,$1$r7uqeBa3$RZEdA074uEc9GnS4e9Oeq/
3450 2011-06-19 19:28:54 <hmmmm> if you can do gigahashes that should take about 4 billion seconds
3451 2011-06-19 19:28:55 <upb> :P
3452 2011-06-19 19:28:55 <AntiVigilante> TD google gets haxed easy Your argument is invalid
3453 2011-06-19 19:29:01 jutajata has left ()
3454 2011-06-19 19:29:01 <hwolf> we need a p2p exchange, simply a trust network
3455 2011-06-19 19:29:03 <TD> um, right
3456 2011-06-19 19:29:08 <davex__> hwolf++
3457 2011-06-19 19:29:09 sbasuita has joined
3458 2011-06-19 19:29:18 <hmmmm> someone running a 2GH/s setup can crack one of those salted md5 hashes in about 21 days
3459 2011-06-19 19:29:22 <Alex_-> If you have a password with more than 8 symbols/charachters/numbers randomed or used you wont get cracked
3460 2011-06-19 19:29:36 <hwolf> imagine having high trust, anybody would wire you money for btc
3461 2011-06-19 19:29:36 <luke-jr> hmmmm: no, they're 160 bit
3462 2011-06-19 19:29:39 gribble has joined
3463 2011-06-19 19:29:42 <hmmmm> um..
3464 2011-06-19 19:29:45 <hmmmm> no
3465 2011-06-19 19:29:46 <Speeder> whoa, I am one of the first mtgox users
3466 2011-06-19 19:29:48 <jrmithdobbs> hmmmm: who cares, you can probably grab at least 1-2k just with simple dictionary attacks
3467 2011-06-19 19:29:50 <Speeder> interesting
3468 2011-06-19 19:29:50 <hmmmm> md5 are 128 bit first of all
3469 2011-06-19 19:29:53 <Bossland> still 60.000 uisers leaked
3470 2011-06-19 19:29:55 <sblinda> it's md5
3471 2011-06-19 19:29:56 <hmmmm> and then with the birthday attack it's / 2
3472 2011-06-19 19:29:59 <hmmmm> so 2^64
3473 2011-06-19 19:30:04 <ShadeS> how did the database get leaked?
3474 2011-06-19 19:30:06 <ericmock> seriously, mtgox should just close up shop at this point and return what they have to people
3475 2011-06-19 19:30:13 erek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3476 2011-06-19 19:30:19 <Optimo> rebuild
3477 2011-06-19 19:30:20 <picci> ericmock: they shou.d
3478 2011-06-19 19:30:23 erek_ has joined
3479 2011-06-19 19:30:23 proplaya has joined
3480 2011-06-19 19:30:25 erek_ is now known as erek
3481 2011-06-19 19:30:26 <TbbW> new password it is... lucky me i used only the mtgox password on mtgox
3482 2011-06-19 19:30:33 <kiba> so now we have an allegation of database leak?
3483 2011-06-19 19:30:33 <kobach> same
3484 2011-06-19 19:30:35 <jrmithdobbs> lift all withdrawl limits when that shit comes back up
3485 2011-06-19 19:30:36 <hmmmm> they should rollback transactions, require password changes, hash with something secure like sha256
3486 2011-06-19 19:30:37 <cosurgi> where's that leaked list, can I check if I'm there?
3487 2011-06-19 19:30:40 <hmmmm> ;;
3488 2011-06-19 19:30:41 <jrmithdobbs> kiba: not an allegation.
3489 2011-06-19 19:30:49 <picci> the thing is, at least they should send everyone a new pass via email
3490 2011-06-19 19:30:49 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
3491 2011-06-19 19:30:52 <jrmithdobbs> kiba: i'm looking at said dump
3492 2011-06-19 19:30:54 <kiba> if it is true, mtgox is in serious shit
3493 2011-06-19 19:31:00 <upb> nah it will be ok
3494 2011-06-19 19:31:04 <btcrowan> http://ifile.it/a3kl16j
3495 2011-06-19 19:31:08 <AntiVigilante> jrmithdobbs: the withdrawal limit is enforced by law
3496 2011-06-19 19:31:09 <upb> 'looking at logs, the mysql dump wasnt used'
3497 2011-06-19 19:31:12 <ericmock> even if they don't there is going to be a run on their accounts the minute it's back...
3498 2011-06-19 19:31:13 <picci> it is not sha256!!!!
3499 2011-06-19 19:31:13 <sblinda> FreeBSD MD5 [32/64 X2]
3500 2011-06-19 19:31:16 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: aware
3501 2011-06-19 19:31:18 <btcrowan> I am in it, it looks pretty darn legit
3502 2011-06-19 19:31:19 <sblinda> john is cracking away...
3503 2011-06-19 19:31:21 <corlibro> i hope the btc withdraw limit will lifted...i want to get my btc out of there quickly without daily limits :-(
3504 2011-06-19 19:31:23 <lnet> If anyone wants their username to be checked againt the db send me a pm.
3505 2011-06-19 19:31:25 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: and actually not exactly, since he's not in the US
3506 2011-06-19 19:31:26 <ericmock> does anyone have any confidence that TradeHill is more secure?
3507 2011-06-19 19:31:28 <DiSTANT187> it is legit
3508 2011-06-19 19:31:28 <briareus> kiba: that link has people in here in the .csv
3509 2011-06-19 19:31:30 <hwolf> exchangezone did a silly stunt last month, and ran off with everybodys LR
3510 2011-06-19 19:31:32 <KuDeTa> same here
3511 2011-06-19 19:31:38 <KuDeTa> if you need to check username PM me
3512 2011-06-19 19:31:45 <ShadeS> hwolf: LR?
3513 2011-06-19 19:31:49 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: but it's to accomodate us law and avoid getting dwolla/etc accounts killed
3514 2011-06-19 19:31:49 <kunnis> I'll also do username checks
3515 2011-06-19 19:32:01 The_SLain_MAn has joined
3516 2011-06-19 19:32:06 <kiba> hmm
3517 2011-06-19 19:32:12 <hmmmm> well
3518 2011-06-19 19:32:13 <kiba> I don't know 99% of the people here
3519 2011-06-19 19:32:19 dude_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3520 2011-06-19 19:32:21 lorenzoIT_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3521 2011-06-19 19:32:23 <MRD_> shades: Liberty Reserve
3522 2011-06-19 19:32:25 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
3523 2011-06-19 19:32:26 <ericmock> kunnis: you run what?
3524 2011-06-19 19:32:32 <hmmmm> okay, at the very least, there are now 63000 email addresses free to spammers
3525 2011-06-19 19:32:39 <ssalxs> lol ya
3526 2011-06-19 19:32:43 <AntiVigilante> lol what a bunch of PUSSIES
3527 2011-06-19 19:32:43 <ShadeS> hwolf: what stunt happened?
3528 2011-06-19 19:32:52 ali1234 has joined
3529 2011-06-19 19:32:58 <thechut> anybody know if the ecnrypted passwords are mtgox doing? or the people that released it?
3530 2011-06-19 19:33:00 <BabyGeek> i'm in the csv file :) !
3531 2011-06-19 19:33:07 <ssalxs> we all are haha
3532 2011-06-19 19:33:08 <Optimo> plaintext email addresses == sadface
3533 2011-06-19 19:33:14 <kunnis> ericmock I'll see if you're name is in the csv file.
3534 2011-06-19 19:33:19 <phearful> can someone upload the .csv to osmewhere that is not rapidshare plz
3535 2011-06-19 19:33:21 <kiba> is kiba in there?
3536 2011-06-19 19:33:28 <AntiVigilante> I'm ON THE INTERNET omgaz!
3537 2011-06-19 19:33:34 <ssalxs> http://ifile.it/a3kl16j
3538 2011-06-19 19:33:36 <kiba> can my password be decrypted using the .csv there?
3539 2011-06-19 19:33:37 <kunnis> phearful I'll do it, just name me a place, or I'll send it to you and you can do it
3540 2011-06-19 19:33:41 <HiddenDuck> @pherarful its this ifile link
3541 2011-06-19 19:33:47 <delpes> kiba : it's possible
3542 2011-06-19 19:33:48 Discobear has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3543 2011-06-19 19:33:51 hahuang65 has quit ()
3544 2011-06-19 19:33:52 Guest54138 has joined
3545 2011-06-19 19:33:54 <AntiVigilante> kiba not unless you mine cryptocoins
3546 2011-06-19 19:33:54 <ericmock> kunnis: I have db
3547 2011-06-19 19:33:57 <megu> mm I missed an episode... where does that csv come from ?
3548 2011-06-19 19:34:07 <terrytibbs> tux released it...
3549 2011-06-19 19:34:12 <megu> ty
3550 2011-06-19 19:34:15 <MDrollette> what kind of hash is it ?
3551 2011-06-19 19:34:19 <terrytibbs> md5
3552 2011-06-19 19:34:25 <MDrollette> o_O
3553 2011-06-19 19:34:32 <lianj> yikes
3554 2011-06-19 19:34:35 <jogis> terrytibbs: why would tux release it? for the lulz? :]
3555 2011-06-19 19:34:40 <gfchvjb> md5($pass.$salt)??????
3556 2011-06-19 19:34:40 <terrytibbs> easy to break, seeing as alot of us have multi gigahash rigs
3557 2011-06-19 19:34:43 <hwolf> Shades: I was just saying exchangezone ran off with all their users Liberty Reserver money.
3558 2011-06-19 19:34:45 <Technomage> it's addressed
3559 2011-06-19 19:34:46 <Technomage> https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback
3560 2011-06-19 19:34:47 <Technomage> update
3561 2011-06-19 19:35:01 <phearful> http://i.imgur.com/jrgYU.png <-- OMFG !!!!!
3562 2011-06-19 19:35:04 <jlgaddis> http://evilrouters.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/accounts.csv.bz2
3563 2011-06-19 19:35:08 <phearful> ty
3564 2011-06-19 19:35:10 <ericmock> so here's the deal why mtgox should just shutdown... how long has that db dump been out?
3565 2011-06-19 19:35:16 <ersi> Well fuck, this sucks.
3566 2011-06-19 19:35:25 <ericmock> how about all those 'whiners' in the forums claiming their account was hacked?
3567 2011-06-19 19:35:25 <burp_> terrytibbs: and md5 is even faster to hash I think :>
3568 2011-06-19 19:35:36 <JakeMates> Any response on this from MagicalTux?
3569 2011-06-19 19:35:38 <ericmock> do they get their money back?
3570 2011-06-19 19:35:41 <gfchvjb> md5($pass.$salt)?
3571 2011-06-19 19:35:51 <ShadeS> hwolf: oh shit? how much money was that?
3572 2011-06-19 19:35:57 accel has joined
3573 2011-06-19 19:36:00 Astounding is now known as Ripster
3574 2011-06-19 19:36:10 <MagicalTux> JakeMates: https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback
3575 2011-06-19 19:36:12 <luke-jr> shouldn't someone delete those links from the forum?
3576 2011-06-19 19:36:12 <ius> kiba: Yes
3577 2011-06-19 19:36:15 <corlibro> <gfchvjb> google md5(unix) you will see it has not much to do with simple md5()
3578 2011-06-19 19:36:18 <hwolf> Shades: I would guess they only got away with 100K worth. But it really looks like Liberty Reserve was somewhat involved
3579 2011-06-19 19:36:25 Taveren93HGK has quit ()
3580 2011-06-19 19:36:26 <FellowTraveler> To whatever degree that current events have encouraged people to delve more deeply into security for Bitcoin exchanges, I recommend you check out my project: https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki
3581 2011-06-19 19:36:34 lessPlastic has joined
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3583 2011-06-19 19:36:46 gfchvjb has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3584 2011-06-19 19:36:49 doofus2 has joined
3585 2011-06-19 19:36:59 <ducki2p> MagicalTux: you seen your accounts table been leaked?
3586 2011-06-19 19:37:00 <DiSTANT187> MagicalTux: Could you please explain the leaked csv of accounts?
3587 2011-06-19 19:37:05 <ShadeS> MagicalTux: how did someone get a hold of the database?
3588 2011-06-19 19:37:08 <ius> ducki2p: No it's completely new to him
3589 2011-06-19 19:37:10 <accel> how do I get invited to bitcoin-otc
3590 2011-06-19 19:37:14 <ius> ShadeS: SQL injection
3591 2011-06-19 19:37:16 <ducki2p> I just checked and confirmed that it contains my own credentials
3592 2011-06-19 19:37:19 <hwolf> Cool to see the first few people on mtgox. Satoshi is in that list somewhere
3593 2011-06-19 19:37:20 Taveren93HGK has joined
3594 2011-06-19 19:37:23 <briareus> ducki2p: ZZZZZING
3595 2011-06-19 19:37:25 <FellowTraveler> Security is important on any site that manages people's money, and it's time to stop building centralized servers to trade bitcoin, and time to start using LOW TRUST SERVERS where the servers cannot forge transactions that users haven't first SIGNED.
3596 2011-06-19 19:37:26 <ShadeS> ius: howcome inputs were not sanatized?
3597 2011-06-19 19:37:29 <phearful> IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE 500,000 BTC DUMPED TODAY WAS NOT FROM ONE ACCOUNT, BUT A CUMULATIVE DUMP OF MTGOX BTC
3598 2011-06-19 19:37:31 <ducki2p> including username, email and password hash (in my case unsalted md5sum)
3599 2011-06-19 19:37:33 <luke-jr> ducki2p: he knows
3600 2011-06-19 19:37:33 <ericmock> and then what happens with all the people that will now claim their account was hacked?
3601 2011-06-19 19:37:37 zapnap has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3602 2011-06-19 19:37:40 * Tiraspol votes +m
3603 2011-06-19 19:37:43 dr_win has joined
3604 2011-06-19 19:37:47 <hwolf> That leaked list is all the early studs on bitcoin, a whos who
3605 2011-06-19 19:37:49 <phearful> ;o
3606 2011-06-19 19:37:54 <ericmock> phuzion: it could have been one account
3607 2011-06-19 19:37:59 <ius> ShadeS: Cause the codebase was old and reused, whoever initially wrote it was unable to write secure code
3608 2011-06-19 19:38:01 <UukGoblin> so it's about mtgox bugs, not the wallet trojan?
3609 2011-06-19 19:38:07 <ericmock> they finally just cracked the right password
3610 2011-06-19 19:38:11 <Anduck> wallet trojan?
3611 2011-06-19 19:38:14 <Anduck> is there smth like that
3612 2011-06-19 19:38:16 <ius> ericmock: It's all of the accounts
3613 2011-06-19 19:38:23 <ShadeS> ius: why was a financial database used on insecure code?
3614 2011-06-19 19:38:25 <kiba> hmm
3615 2011-06-19 19:38:26 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: yup yup
3616 2011-06-19 19:38:30 <kiba> MtGox has been hacked
3617 2011-06-19 19:38:30 <ericmock> ius: see my last statement
3618 2011-06-19 19:38:32 <kiba> DDOSed
3619 2011-06-19 19:38:33 <kiba> etc
3620 2011-06-19 19:38:39 ColdHardMetal has joined
3621 2011-06-19 19:38:43 <phearful> because, mtgox had to rush to market
3622 2011-06-19 19:38:47 <phearful> to secure market share
3623 2011-06-19 19:38:48 <AntiVigilante> P
3624 2011-06-19 19:38:50 <phearful> no time to check code
3625 2011-06-19 19:38:50 <AntiVigilante> U
3626 2011-06-19 19:38:51 <FellowTraveler> There should be no password on the server side. Users should have to sign their requests. Money needs to be secured with public key crypto.
3627 2011-06-19 19:38:52 <AntiVigilante> S
3628 2011-06-19 19:38:55 <AntiVigilante> S
3629 2011-06-19 19:38:57 <phearful> Y
3630 2011-06-19 19:39:07 <AntiVigilante> M O U S E
3631 2011-06-19 19:39:07 <kiba> phearful: mostly because mtgox was started by a guy who doesn't know security
3632 2011-06-19 19:39:07 Mononofu has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3633 2011-06-19 19:39:08 never_sleep has joined
3634 2011-06-19 19:39:16 <corlibro> list is not up2date. it's missing at least 500 entries
3635 2011-06-19 19:39:22 <kiba> I don't know about MagicalTux's security knowledge though
3636 2011-06-19 19:39:24 <jogis> corlibro: how do you know?
3637 2011-06-19 19:39:26 phantomcircuit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3638 2011-06-19 19:39:27 <ShadeS> MagicalTux: is there going to be any compensation for users who had their dox dropped?
3639 2011-06-19 19:39:27 <ericmock> kiba: screwed by the 'business' people again
3640 2011-06-19 19:39:27 <KuDeTa> some of these paswords are not salted
3641 2011-06-19 19:39:31 <ius> ericmock: No
3642 2011-06-19 19:39:37 <phearful> you would think he would invest in security from the 0.65% cut
3643 2011-06-19 19:39:37 <KuDeTa> i.e. can be cracked trivially
3644 2011-06-19 19:39:43 <KuDeTa> with rainbow tables
3645 2011-06-19 19:39:50 <ius> KuDeTa: Hmm just ~1000 or so?
3646 2011-06-19 19:39:50 <FellowTraveler> It is possible to have a server that cannot forge transactions, where only a user's signature can authorize any balance change. Why would the Bitcoin community accept anything less?
3647 2011-06-19 19:39:54 <ShadeS> KuDeTa: salting renders rainbow tables uselss
3648 2011-06-19 19:39:56 DaQatz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3649 2011-06-19 19:39:59 <KuDeTa> some are not salted
3650 2011-06-19 19:40:00 <kiba> ericmock: business people? More like hobbyist who started something that got real real fast
3651 2011-06-19 19:40:04 <ShadeS> D 8
3652 2011-06-19 19:40:06 DaQatz has joined
3653 2011-06-19 19:40:09 <ShadeS> which some aren't salted???
3654 2011-06-19 19:40:13 <KuDeTa> ~1000
3655 2011-06-19 19:40:14 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
3656 2011-06-19 19:40:16 <Anduck> yuhh?
3657 2011-06-19 19:40:18 <Anduck> wtf
3658 2011-06-19 19:40:19 <TD> FellowTraveler: because it's complicated and mark can only code so fast, obviously
3659 2011-06-19 19:40:21 Ripster is now known as Astounding
3660 2011-06-19 19:40:23 <ericmock> kiba: that's someone starting a business...
3661 2011-06-19 19:40:26 <Anduck> it's all salted or none salted, right?
3662 2011-06-19 19:40:31 <wumpus> FellowTraveler: set up a provably exchange like that, and I'm sure you'll get a lot of users
3663 2011-06-19 19:40:34 <afed> are those hashes salted?
3664 2011-06-19 19:40:35 <kunnis> FellowTraveler you don't (oftne) hear about banks getting their systems ripped open. It's more a question about what's the weakest link in the chain. Usually it's not the password itself, it's password storage. Doing decent password storage isnt' hard. crypto keys are a pita
3665 2011-06-19 19:40:35 <wumpus> freeminer: +secure
3666 2011-06-19 19:40:37 <AntiVigilante> FellowTraveler: I'm already working on something - multiple sentence posts look like advertising that's low dude
3667 2011-06-19 19:40:38 <upb> FellowTraveler: because the opentransactions is a great idea etc but it isnt something you just install and start up :)
3668 2011-06-19 19:40:39 <lnet> People are sending real money to a hobby website and then wonder when bad stuff happens...
3669 2011-06-19 19:40:45 <kobach> ^
3670 2011-06-19 19:40:49 phunction has joined
3671 2011-06-19 19:40:50 <TD> banks do get hacked, actually
3672 2011-06-19 19:40:55 <TD> citibank lost 200,000+ creds the other week
3673 2011-06-19 19:40:56 <kunnis> Not too often
3674 2011-06-19 19:40:57 <corlibro> <jogis>because i'm not in. highest id in the list is 61020 , my id however was 615***
3675 2011-06-19 19:41:04 <TD> they kept it quiet for over a week before admitting to it
3676 2011-06-19 19:41:09 karnac has joined
3677 2011-06-19 19:41:12 <kiba> if I were MagicalTux, the first thing I would do when I brought the codebase is that I would rewrite from stratch following security practices
3678 2011-06-19 19:41:12 <ericmock> corlibro: when did you sign up?
3679 2011-06-19 19:41:13 <kunnis> and compare their transaction volume to mtgox
3680 2011-06-19 19:41:16 <FellowTraveler> td: wumpus: check out OT it's already written. upb: No I suppose you don't just install it and start it up, eh? I suppose this mtGox debacle is LESS HASSLE?
3681 2011-06-19 19:41:19 <TD> and quite a few banks have had big business/government accounts drained after somebody phished or keylogged their way in
3682 2011-06-19 19:41:38 <TD> kiba: he's already rewriting the thing from scratch and has been for a while
3683 2011-06-19 19:41:39 <kiba> web security is a joke, so everything get hacked, even banks
3684 2011-06-19 19:41:41 <TD> (apparently)
3685 2011-06-19 19:41:43 <AntiVigilante> FellowTraveler: stop pimping dude
3686 2011-06-19 19:41:44 <MDrollette> some look like.. $1$ptO/9DEm$1yFEFGkRkNBdCMDZmG/6v0 - and others like.. aa56bea1abee624c5b7d9ce86f863916
3687 2011-06-19 19:41:44 <MDrollette> what's the diff?
3688 2011-06-19 19:41:46 <kunnis> yes, and again, it's not the password that's the weak point
3689 2011-06-19 19:41:52 <MagicalTux> [04:40:28] <kiba> if I were MagicalTux, the first thing I would do when I brought the codebase is that I would rewrite from stratch following security practices <- already doing it, and almost done
3690 2011-06-19 19:42:13 <accel> MagicalTux: what's your role at mtgox? you seem very knowledgable
3691 2011-06-19 19:42:15 mtgox_sucks_donk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3692 2011-06-19 19:42:17 <TD> accel: he runs it
3693 2011-06-19 19:42:19 <phearful> he owns it
3694 2011-06-19 19:42:19 <ShadeS> when will it be back up? 1000 what time zone?
3695 2011-06-19 19:42:22 <accel> ah
3696 2011-06-19 19:42:25 <kunnis> phishing is user insecurity.
3697 2011-06-19 19:42:26 <phearful> japanese time zone
3698 2011-06-19 19:42:27 llama has left ()
3699 2011-06-19 19:42:28 <MagicalTux> ShadeS: 11:00 JST
3700 2011-06-19 19:42:33 neversleep has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3701 2011-06-19 19:42:35 <upb> MDrollette: it seems as salting was added as an afterhought Ã=
3702 2011-06-19 19:42:35 <ShadeS> that is UTC + ??
3703 2011-06-19 19:42:36 <corlibro> <ericmock> just today, lol. i'm glad i didn't transfer any more btc to mtgox
3704 2011-06-19 19:42:39 <ShadeS> 11 ?
3705 2011-06-19 19:42:40 <ShadeS> 12 ?
3706 2011-06-19 19:42:40 <upb> MDrollette: some of them arent salted
3707 2011-06-19 19:42:42 <casascius> 01:00 UTC
3708 2011-06-19 19:42:45 <vegard> MagicalTux: the database leak is a catastrophe. will you make a statement about it as well?
3709 2011-06-19 19:42:45 Lambdanaut has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3710 2011-06-19 19:42:50 <phearful> so MagicalTux, how does the owner of the 500k BTC feel about this
3711 2011-06-19 19:42:52 <ducki2p> I think you can stop the rewrite and look for another job
3712 2011-06-19 19:42:59 <fimp> vegard, he did https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20208066-huge-bitcoin-sell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback
3713 2011-06-19 19:43:08 <ericmock> we can probably figure out when the db got dumped by the accounts in there (and not in there)
3714 2011-06-19 19:43:12 <MagicalTux> phearful: not happy, since it seems his computer was compromised
3715 2011-06-19 19:43:17 <vegard> fimp: no, that's different.
3716 2011-06-19 19:43:18 <phearful> ah
3717 2011-06-19 19:43:20 <jarly> 6/19/11: The day Mt. Gox died.
3718 2011-06-19 19:43:25 <jarly> sort've
3719 2011-06-19 19:43:27 <ius> FYI
3720 2011-06-19 19:43:28 <jarly> sort of
3721 2011-06-19 19:43:29 <fimp> vegard, that page is updated about the leak
3722 2011-06-19 19:43:30 <ius> 61017 passes
3723 2011-06-19 19:43:30 <ius> 59238 salted
3724 2011-06-19 19:43:30 <ius> 120073 nonsalted
3725 2011-06-19 19:43:38 <ius> Whups
3726 2011-06-19 19:43:40 <jarly> ius: shit.
3727 2011-06-19 19:43:41 <ius> Forgot to sort
3728 2011-06-19 19:43:42 <kobach> lol
3729 2011-06-19 19:43:47 <copumpkin> I doubt it
3730 2011-06-19 19:43:47 <luke-jr> ius: how does that work?
3731 2011-06-19 19:43:48 <vegard> fimp: ah, right, thanks
3732 2011-06-19 19:44:11 Guest1766 has joined
3733 2011-06-19 19:44:11 Guest1766 is now known as gribble
3734 2011-06-19 19:44:12 <erik__> MagicalTux: you guys seem to be handling things professionally, though tactics can be debated. Stay strong :)
3735 2011-06-19 19:44:21 <RAM2012> Tux was this an injection attack?
3736 2011-06-19 19:44:41 gribble is now known as Guest51173
3737 2011-06-19 19:44:42 <Eliel> ius: if there are only 61017 users, how can there be double that number of unsalted passwords?
3738 2011-06-19 19:44:55 <ericmock> maybe Mt. Gox was actually a volcano
3739 2011-06-19 19:45:02 <MagicalTux> RAM2012: no
3740 2011-06-19 19:45:08 <DaQatz> people seem to think #bitcoin-dev is #bitcoin-pressconfence
3741 2011-06-19 19:45:14 <DaQatz> sp
3742 2011-06-19 19:45:16 <jrmithdobbs> ius: there's unsalted? lollolol
3743 2011-06-19 19:45:20 <terrytibbs> is it not?
3744 2011-06-19 19:45:21 <RAM2012> wow, not injection...
3745 2011-06-19 19:45:25 <ius> jrmithdobbs: No
3746 2011-06-19 19:45:32 <ius> I'm messing up on the stats
3747 2011-06-19 19:45:39 <ius> But at least 59k seem salted
3748 2011-06-19 19:45:44 Guest51173 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3749 2011-06-19 19:45:45 <RAM2012> a physical access attack? I'm lost how the database could have been leaked without injection
3750 2011-06-19 19:45:47 <ShadeS> how certain are we that the database drop was an SQL injection?
3751 2011-06-19 19:45:48 * luke-jr ponders if this will grow #bitcoin-forensics
3752 2011-06-19 19:45:52 <ius> Remaining is plain md5 or maybe even plaintext
3753 2011-06-19 19:46:01 robin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3754 2011-06-19 19:46:07 <ius> ShadeS: I witnessed it myself..
3755 2011-06-19 19:46:17 <ShadeS> ius: what do you mean?
3756 2011-06-19 19:46:25 <ShadeS> did you see a screen capture of the attackers s creen?
3757 2011-06-19 19:46:30 <terrytibbs> second time in a couple of weeks a company originating from japan gets thousands of user-credentials stolen - nice!
3758 2011-06-19 19:46:31 <ShadeS> how could you have witnessed it?
3759 2011-06-19 19:46:33 <erek> would you guys disable your dwolla accounts based on this ? couldn't dwolla be hacked?
3760 2011-06-19 19:46:44 <casascius> Does "ius" mean virus?
3761 2011-06-19 19:46:48 <ShadeS> clearly everyone can see the db now, i have no idea how you could have saw it drop as in, 'in action' ?
3762 2011-06-19 19:46:56 jimss is now known as jims
3763 2011-06-19 19:47:05 <ius> ShadeS: No I verified there was a hole, myself (I didn't find it, for the record)
3764 2011-06-19 19:47:09 <ersi> erek: If you're silly enough to have the same password there, yes.
3765 2011-06-19 19:47:11 genjix has joined
3766 2011-06-19 19:47:11 genjix has quit (Changing host)
3767 2011-06-19 19:47:11 genjix has joined
3768 2011-06-19 19:47:15 <ketsa> rofl i went to a md5 cracking site to see if i could crack a random pass from that file, my request is 145'000+ in queue...
3769 2011-06-19 19:47:22 <kobach> lmfao
3770 2011-06-19 19:47:22 <TD> i'd think the real risk here is that the wallet was compromised as well as the db
3771 2011-06-19 19:47:23 <kobach> owned
3772 2011-06-19 19:47:38 <erek> ersi: beyond that, what about dwolla getting comprimised itself
3773 2011-06-19 19:47:42 <briareus> this is how confidence is demolished.
3774 2011-06-19 19:47:48 <ShadeS> TD: what do yo umean?
3775 2011-06-19 19:48:07 cprompt has joined
3776 2011-06-19 19:48:11 <luke-jr> TD: it was?
3777 2011-06-19 19:48:17 <erek> briareus: i didnt think it was that bad til the passwords got leaked
3778 2011-06-19 19:48:18 <ShadeS> the wallet was stolen too?!?!
3779 2011-06-19 19:48:20 <TD> no
3780 2011-06-19 19:48:21 goobrnaut has joined
3781 2011-06-19 19:48:22 <TD> i don't know that
3782 2011-06-19 19:48:27 <jogis> ah
3783 2011-06-19 19:48:27 <briareus> erek: it's that bad
3784 2011-06-19 19:48:30 <TD> i was just speculating. calm down
3785 2011-06-19 19:48:37 <erek> briareus: do you use dwolla?
3786 2011-06-19 19:48:43 terrytibbs has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3787 2011-06-19 19:48:44 <AntiVigilante> TD how was the wallet stolen pray tell?
3788 2011-06-19 19:48:49 <erek> briareus: i'm about to remove my bank account in dwolla
3789 2011-06-19 19:48:51 <TD> i have no idea what happened
3790 2011-06-19 19:48:54 <ShadeS> MagicalTux: the DB was dropped, did the wallet get stolen?
3791 2011-06-19 19:48:57 Granttt has quit ()
3792 2011-06-19 19:49:00 <AntiVigilante> then stop fear mongering
3793 2011-06-19 19:49:02 <erek> if the hackers wanted real money they'd go after dwolla
3794 2011-06-19 19:49:09 <humana> no email for my account, sweet :D
3795 2011-06-19 19:49:14 phantomcircuit has joined
3796 2011-06-19 19:49:22 <RAM2012> I haven't heard anythin about Dwolla security problems
3797 2011-06-19 19:49:23 <ersi> erek: AFAIK Dwolla is a seperate entity from MtGox.
3798 2011-06-19 19:49:28 <copumpkin> it is
3799 2011-06-19 19:49:35 <erek> yeah it is, but the hackers could target dwolla
3800 2011-06-19 19:49:35 test345 has joined
3801 2011-06-19 19:49:36 <erek> regardless
3802 2011-06-19 19:49:37 <ersi> So I don't get what you're trying to convey.
3803 2011-06-19 19:49:41 ali1234 has left ()
3804 2011-06-19 19:49:42 <thechut> what % of people use the same account and pw though...
3805 2011-06-19 19:49:42 <ersi> Yes, of fucking course
3806 2011-06-19 19:49:45 ObamaSUCKSasshol has joined
3807 2011-06-19 19:49:47 <Astounding> The wallets have been compromised?
3808 2011-06-19 19:49:48 <ersi> They could try to target WHATEVER
3809 2011-06-19 19:49:55 <TD> no
3810 2011-06-19 19:49:56 <Astounding> is that what I'm hearing?
3811 2011-06-19 19:49:57 <ersi> Astounding: That's now known currently
3812 2011-06-19 19:50:01 <ersi> not*
3813 2011-06-19 19:50:02 <luke-jr> TD: see what you started? XD
3814 2011-06-19 19:50:03 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> #bitcoin-mining
3815 2011-06-19 19:50:10 * TD rolls his eyes at people who do not read
3816 2011-06-19 19:50:10 <humana> question, if you force all passwords to be reset, what about accounts with no email, like mine?
3817 2011-06-19 19:50:20 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> is Mt Gox back up and runnimg?
3818 2011-06-19 19:50:21 <Astounding> I need to spread the word!
3819 2011-06-19 19:50:22 <Astounding> brb
3820 2011-06-19 19:50:23 <jlgaddis> you have to use your pin on dwolla to move money, iirc
3821 2011-06-19 19:50:31 genjix has left ()
3822 2011-06-19 19:50:35 <luke-jr> TD: no, that was your bad
3823 2011-06-19 19:50:40 <kiba> pretty crazy Sunday
3824 2011-06-19 19:50:44 <luke-jr> TD: you made a statement, saying the wallet was compromised
3825 2011-06-19 19:50:46 <erek> what if the pin and passwords are all stored in plain text
3826 2011-06-19 19:50:50 <TD> no i didn't
3827 2011-06-19 19:50:54 <luke-jr> TD: did
3828 2011-06-19 19:50:58 <luke-jr> [15:46:38] <TD> i'd think the real risk here is that the wallet was compromised as well as the db
3829 2011-06-19 19:50:59 <kiba> TD: people misread and read
3830 2011-06-19 19:51:07 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> #bitcoin-otc #bitcoin-market
3831 2011-06-19 19:51:09 <kiba> misunderstanding, ya
3832 2011-06-19 19:51:13 <cereal7802> nothing that happened with mtgox has any bearing on dwolla unless your using the same user and pass on both
3833 2011-06-19 19:51:22 <TD> yes. "i'd think the risk is" means i think there is a risk of that having happened, but i don't know for sure
3834 2011-06-19 19:51:31 <cprompt> grndzero: You must be pretty upset
3835 2011-06-19 19:51:40 <Astounding> You implied that that was the "real risk"
3836 2011-06-19 19:51:45 slush has joined
3837 2011-06-19 19:51:45 <Astounding> real implying largest
3838 2011-06-19 19:51:48 hello_ has joined
3839 2011-06-19 19:52:09 <burp_> will be funny, how will you know the real owners of the accounts without an email address? :D
3840 2011-06-19 19:52:16 <kobach> ^
3841 2011-06-19 19:52:29 doofus2 has quit ()
3842 2011-06-19 19:52:40 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> bitcoin is the wild-west of currency
3843 2011-06-19 19:52:58 <dude65535> Passwords were hashed with added salt. Even if the attacker got the salt as well as the hashed passwords it would still take an offline brute force attack to figure out what the passwords were.
3844 2011-06-19 19:52:59 err0r^ has joined
3845 2011-06-19 19:53:07 <upb> *some* were with salt
3846 2011-06-19 19:53:09 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> I think Mt. Gox is really making an important decision to rollback all trades
3847 2011-06-19 19:53:18 <oneohoneohfive> ObamaSUCKSasshol: so was this an attempted bank heist in dodge city?
3848 2011-06-19 19:53:29 <oneohoneohfive> i'll go back to trading with the injuns personally
3849 2011-06-19 19:53:34 <ius> dude65535: So what? Plenty of videocards around. Unless it was *really* strong (fact is, most aren't) people are screwed
3850 2011-06-19 19:53:57 <upb> and isnt it the standard bsd format anyway where the salt is right there
3851 2011-06-19 19:54:05 <ericmock> let's start a contest to find the funniest user name
3852 2011-06-19 19:54:08 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> i hear that oneohoneohfive
3853 2011-06-19 19:54:13 lyspooner has joined
3854 2011-06-19 19:54:20 <Astounding> I'm getting reports that the WALLETS have been compromised!?!?!?! HIDE YO WALLETZ!!!!
3855 2011-06-19 19:54:24 IncitatusOnWater has joined
3856 2011-06-19 19:54:31 <cprompt> dude65535: Maybe they created an alternate cryptocurrency which used proofs-of-work that aided them in cracking the passwords
3857 2011-06-19 19:54:35 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> right when the sell off happened, people all over IRC were saying the Department of Justice took action against all the bitcoin exchanges and were raiding Mt gox and Tradehill
3858 2011-06-19 19:54:36 <oneohoneohfive> they climbin through your mtgox, they snatchin yo bitcoins up
3859 2011-06-19 19:54:45 <oneohoneohfive> hide yo wallet hide yo account
3860 2011-06-19 19:54:59 <RAM2012> ;;gpg eauth RAM2012
3861 2011-06-19 19:55:12 <ersi> Astounding: Shut your pie hole.
3862 2011-06-19 19:55:14 <grndzero> ObamaSUCKSasshol: says a lot about the competence of people on IRC, huh?
3863 2011-06-19 19:55:18 <RAM2012> where is gribble?
3864 2011-06-19 19:55:19 <accel> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2671441 mentions 500k bitcoins got transferred. How many total bitcoins exist right now?
3865 2011-06-19 19:55:24 <jogis> may i bring your attention to block 131886 - there seems to be a transaction of ~500k BTC there, any info?
3866 2011-06-19 19:55:31 <ersi> accel: 6.5 million
3867 2011-06-19 19:55:32 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3868 2011-06-19 19:55:35 <copumpkin> jogis: it's the big one that started this
3869 2011-06-19 19:55:36 coinage has joined
3870 2011-06-19 19:55:44 <casascius> block 131886: I did some analysis...Most of the BTC was "change" back to MtGox
3871 2011-06-19 19:55:46 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
3872 2011-06-19 19:55:59 <jogis> casascius: thanks
3873 2011-06-19 19:56:17 <casascius> block 131886: spends the recent transaction for 432109.87654321 but only breaks 32.11 BTC out of it. It's highly likely that the remainder was change
3874 2011-06-19 19:56:57 grndzero has left ()
3875 2011-06-19 19:57:05 <oneohoneohfive> so if mtgox is going to force weak passworded accounts to change their pass, but they don't have an email address attached....
3876 2011-06-19 19:57:13 <oneohoneohfive> how the hell are they going to accomplish that
3877 2011-06-19 19:57:17 <copumpkin> oneohoneohfive: it's going to force everyone
3878 2011-06-19 19:57:21 <copumpkin> to change their passwords
3879 2011-06-19 19:57:27 <copumpkin> if you don't have an email, I think you're screwed
3880 2011-06-19 19:57:27 <KuDeTa> it can't if there is no email attached
3881 2011-06-19 19:57:27 <oneohoneohfive> copumpkin: but how?
3882 2011-06-19 19:57:36 <casascius> maybe they can verify people against what IP address they usually use
3883 2011-06-19 19:57:36 <humana> ok cool I'll change your password once I'm done cracking all the md5s with no email field
3884 2011-06-19 19:57:41 <copumpkin> MagicalTux might know
3885 2011-06-19 19:57:41 <humana> i'll change it for you, relax.
3886 2011-06-19 19:57:43 <oneohoneohfive> casascius: yeah
3887 2011-06-19 19:57:44 <cprompt> oneohoneohfive: They could force you to authenticate on your next login, and then ask you to change your next password
3888 2011-06-19 19:57:48 <jogis> casascius: so i guess you think it is totally unrelated to the 260k trade for 0.01$/btc in mtgox 40 minutes before that block..
3889 2011-06-19 19:57:53 amod has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3890 2011-06-19 19:57:53 <cprompt> they can verify against IP, or they could ask you about your previous transactions
3891 2011-06-19 19:57:55 <erek> You have removed a bank from Dwolla
3892 2011-06-19 19:58:08 <casascius> jogis: It's related in the sense that it ultimately was a result of people withdrawing BTC from MtGox, it appeasrs
3893 2011-06-19 19:58:19 <oneohoneohfive> if you have a dynamic IP and no email, your account is screwed
3894 2011-06-19 19:58:24 <oneohoneohfive> sorry bros
3895 2011-06-19 19:58:27 <delpes> oneohoneohfice: login wih old pw/login -> get messge : change pw plx (disable all other functions till done)
3896 2011-06-19 19:58:29 <edcba> ;;bc,mthox
3897 2011-06-19 19:58:31 <kobach> oneohoneohfive how so
3898 2011-06-19 19:58:32 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
3899 2011-06-19 19:58:43 <casascius> oneohoneohfive: even if first 2 octets of IP were compared, that would be a start
3900 2011-06-19 19:58:55 <casascius> and usually survives dynamic ip reassignments
3901 2011-06-19 19:58:58 <oneohoneohfive> delpes: how does that prevent people from logging into someone else's account and doing that?
3902 2011-06-19 19:59:00 dD0T has quit (Quit: Ohhhh nooeeezzzz, my uptime!!1111eleven)
3903 2011-06-19 19:59:06 eoss has joined
3904 2011-06-19 19:59:14 <accel> dumb question: how many bitcoins were transferred out of mtgox today due to the hack?
3905 2011-06-19 19:59:15 <oneohoneohfive> kobach: read above
3906 2011-06-19 19:59:20 <ericmock> what? ArtForz doesn't have an email listed?
3907 2011-06-19 19:59:24 <copumpkin> accel: only MagicalTux knows, probably
3908 2011-06-19 19:59:32 <jtaylor> accel: not many there is a 1000$ limit
3909 2011-06-19 19:59:35 <brocktice> at least I'm not the only one using my forum/irc nick on gox :)
3910 2011-06-19 19:59:39 <copumpkin> accel: there's a $1k limit for withdrawals, but considering the price of btc was $0.01 for a while
3911 2011-06-19 19:59:40 <accel> is this not visible due to the bitcoins blocks being public?
3912 2011-06-19 19:59:42 bgupta__ has quit (Quit: bgupta__)
3913 2011-06-19 19:59:42 <copumpkin> that could still be 100k btc
3914 2011-06-19 19:59:52 <hugolp> jtaylor: at 0.01 bitoin dollar, 1000 dollars is a lot of bitcoins
3915 2011-06-19 20:00:07 KaosMcRage has left ()
3916 2011-06-19 20:00:09 dD0T has joined
3917 2011-06-19 20:00:29 <jtaylor> I'd assume there is a protection against that too
3918 2011-06-19 20:00:29 Guest49390 has joined
3919 2011-06-19 20:00:33 <ketsa> trying to crack passwords might look more interesting than mining bitcoins to some guys with "interresting setups"
3920 2011-06-19 20:00:36 <jtaylor> or else mtgox is really retarded
3921 2011-06-19 20:00:38 <upb> so maybe the point of wiping the orderbook clean was to get the price to 0.01 and then transfer out the rest )
3922 2011-06-19 20:00:46 * ericmock wonders if it's worth it to continue work on CocoaCoin
3923 2011-06-19 20:00:51 <copumpkin> upb: possibly indeed
3924 2011-06-19 20:01:03 <accel> ersi: what's cocacoin?
3925 2011-06-19 20:01:11 Teslah has joined
3926 2011-06-19 20:01:12 <briareus> this is how confidence is destroyed.
3927 2011-06-19 20:01:19 <ericmock> my CocoaUI on bitcoin ;-)
3928 2011-06-19 20:01:28 tandy80 has joined
3929 2011-06-19 20:01:29 <copumpkin> MagicalTux: do you have numbers on how many btc the dude got for $1k?
3930 2011-06-19 20:01:31 <accel> ersi: so iphone app?
3931 2011-06-19 20:01:37 <ericmock> but it was just for the learning experience anyway...
3932 2011-06-19 20:01:39 lorenzoIT has joined
3933 2011-06-19 20:01:47 <ericmock> so it /will/ continue (like any of you care)
3934 2011-06-19 20:01:49 <Optimo> bitcoin is fine
3935 2011-06-19 20:01:52 <eps> briareus: no big deal, this was one exchange, if you don't like how it was handled then you can use another one
3936 2011-06-19 20:01:52 <accel> ersi: wrong nick auto complete; sorry
3937 2011-06-19 20:01:54 <Optimo> exchanges need fixing
3938 2011-06-19 20:01:57 <accel> ericmock: so iphone app?
3939 2011-06-19 20:01:58 <eps> or bitcoin-otc
3940 2011-06-19 20:01:58 Astounding is now known as [A]stounding
3941 2011-06-19 20:02:05 <ericmock> accel: that too maybe
3942 2011-06-19 20:02:08 <brocktice> briareus: well, the people who claimed gox was compromised said others were too
3943 2011-06-19 20:02:13 <Optimo> bitcoin-otc is just more awesomer now
3944 2011-06-19 20:02:14 <ericmock> not sure what the appStore situation is
3945 2011-06-19 20:02:14 <accel> ericmock: i was thinking along those lines, then I realized bitcoin involed encryption, and not sure if I could export those, and not sure how to limit which countries iphone app could sell in
3946 2011-06-19 20:02:15 <brocktice> so, will be interesting to see if others follow
3947 2011-06-19 20:02:21 darin has joined
3948 2011-06-19 20:02:23 seventoes has joined
3949 2011-06-19 20:02:23 joecool has joined
3950 2011-06-19 20:02:26 <accel> Optimo: I'm stuck in bitcoin-otc-foyer; hwo do I get into bitcoin-otc ?
3951 2011-06-19 20:02:34 <Optimo> follow instructions
3952 2011-06-19 20:02:35 <kiba> eps: well, all the exchanges and exchange wannabe will have to get their shit tgogether
3953 2011-06-19 20:02:39 <accel> Optimo: where are they posted?
3954 2011-06-19 20:02:40 <ShadeS> accel: you have to become cool enough
3955 2011-06-19 20:02:44 <ersi> accel: No prob, heh.
3956 2011-06-19 20:02:47 <copumpkin> accel: in the channel you're in
3957 2011-06-19 20:02:51 <jogis> ericmock: we do care, i'm real happy that you will continue :)
3958 2011-06-19 20:02:54 <ericmock> that one fella had his bitcoin iphone app rejected
3959 2011-06-19 20:02:56 <megu> what kind of hash is used in this csv file ? I don't manage to reproduce mine
3960 2011-06-19 20:02:59 Guest49390 is now known as gribble
3961 2011-06-19 20:03:04 <jarly> megu: md5
3962 2011-06-19 20:03:04 <accel> copumpkin: I thought the bot needs to be up
3963 2011-06-19 20:03:04 <ShadeS> ericmock: cause fuck apple
3964 2011-06-19 20:03:05 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3965 2011-06-19 20:03:16 amod has joined
3966 2011-06-19 20:03:18 <copumpkin> accel: it does
3967 2011-06-19 20:03:19 <ShadeS> accel: it does
3968 2011-06-19 20:03:23 <jarly> damn, someone's password was 111111..
3969 2011-06-19 20:03:25 <megu> jarly: md5 do not output those characters my side
3970 2011-06-19 20:03:28 <Optimo> salt it saltoshi
3971 2011-06-19 20:03:32 <ShadeS> jarly: are you cracking them?
3972 2011-06-19 20:03:33 <ericmock> but I suspect it wasn't because it 'use intermediate currency' as he says Apple told him
3973 2011-06-19 20:03:43 <jarly> i was just curious to see if they worked
3974 2011-06-19 20:03:45 <accel> okay, so I want to join bitcoin-otc, the bot is down; can someone else invite me in?
3975 2011-06-19 20:03:48 mtgox_lol has joined
3976 2011-06-19 20:03:49 xert has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3977 2011-06-19 20:03:50 <jarly> solved in under a second..
3978 2011-06-19 20:03:58 <Optimo> accel you can't be invited
3979 2011-06-19 20:04:10 <accel> Optimo: why not?
3980 2011-06-19 20:04:11 <Optimo> just have to wait I guess
3981 2011-06-19 20:04:15 LLE has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3982 2011-06-19 20:04:24 Mender has joined
3983 2011-06-19 20:04:35 <Optimo> otc room is protected now, you have to be auth'd to get in
3984 2011-06-19 20:04:41 <Optimo> and wait some time
3985 2011-06-19 20:05:21 <briareus> Hilarious: Bitcoin flash-crash, database leak, md5 passwords, weak user passwords, all point to a cryptocurrency market that is quite un-crypto.
3986 2011-06-19 20:05:22 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3987 2011-06-19 20:05:33 d1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3988 2011-06-19 20:05:38 <jarly> briareus: now that's a retweetable sentence...
3989 2011-06-19 20:05:39 dissipate has joined
3990 2011-06-19 20:05:39 dissipate has quit (Changing host)
3991 2011-06-19 20:05:39 dissipate has joined
3992 2011-06-19 20:05:41 <ketsa> wow some of those hashes are already cracked and appearing in a google search.
3993 2011-06-19 20:05:42 dac has quit (Quit: Page closed)
3994 2011-06-19 20:05:46 <accel> dumb question: is my bitcoin private key a gpg key or a ssh key?
3995 2011-06-19 20:05:49 <kiba> briareus: meh, growing pains.
3996 2011-06-19 20:05:52 <OVerLoRDI> ketsa link?
3997 2011-06-19 20:05:58 <kiba> the market will become more crypto
3998 2011-06-19 20:06:04 <ketsa> no way.
3999 2011-06-19 20:06:14 <upb> accel: its an ecdsa key
4000 2011-06-19 20:06:16 <ketsa> i m not linking clear text pass
4001 2011-06-19 20:06:16 thechut has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4002 2011-06-19 20:06:18 <JakeMates> and how do you find the salt?
4003 2011-06-19 20:06:27 <jarly> some aren't salted
4004 2011-06-19 20:06:28 <ketsa> half arent salted
4005 2011-06-19 20:06:43 <JakeMates> mine is; how do you find the salt?
4006 2011-06-19 20:06:46 <kiba> wait a minute, half is not salt?
4007 2011-06-19 20:06:49 mounte has left ()
4008 2011-06-19 20:06:54 <kiba> shit
4009 2011-06-19 20:06:55 kallestrop has joined
4010 2011-06-19 20:06:56 <OVerLoRDI> what is salt?
4011 2011-06-19 20:06:58 <mtgox_lol> Did the attacker get access to the source code?
4012 2011-06-19 20:06:59 _b__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4013 2011-06-19 20:07:01 <jlgaddis> ^$1$(.*)$
4014 2011-06-19 20:07:01 <accel> upb: is there a way to generate a key w/o using the bitcoin client, and using just gpg ?
4015 2011-06-19 20:07:06 <jrmithdobbs> mtgox_lol: probably
4016 2011-06-19 20:07:07 TimeRunner has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
4017 2011-06-19 20:07:08 xert has joined
4018 2011-06-19 20:07:09 <jlgaddis> .* ($1) == salt
4019 2011-06-19 20:07:09 <kiba> OVerLoRDI: an additional security that ya just need to have
4020 2011-06-19 20:07:11 <wumpus> kiba: also, nothing with has to do with the bitcoin system itself, just the ecosystem around it
4021 2011-06-19 20:07:11 <accel> isn't bitcoin oen source ... ?
4022 2011-06-19 20:07:11 <FellowTraveler> There should be no passwords in the database at all. Transaction requests should be SIGNED.
4023 2011-06-19 20:07:16 <jrmithdobbs> at this point i'd assume it was a full compromise
4024 2011-06-19 20:07:21 <briareus> FellowTraveler ding ding ding
4025 2011-06-19 20:07:25 <jrmithdobbs> until PROVEN otherwise
4026 2011-06-19 20:07:33 <RealBorg> accel, bc is open source but it is very different from pgp
4027 2011-06-19 20:07:35 <briareus> FellowTraveler: but what the hell, md5 works :)
4028 2011-06-19 20:07:36 <jrmithdobbs> not vaguely denied by MagicalTux
4029 2011-06-19 20:07:39 <dude65535> Salt is somthing that you add to the password before hashing it to make it more diffcult to undo the hash.
4030 2011-06-19 20:07:44 <AntiVigilante> PooooooooooooooooooSSIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES
4031 2011-06-19 20:07:51 gribble has joined
4032 2011-06-19 20:07:54 <cprompt> It also adds flavor to the password, and makes bad passwords more palatable
4033 2011-06-19 20:08:00 zxasqw has joined
4034 2011-06-19 20:08:07 <briareus> cprompt: yep
4035 2011-06-19 20:08:19 <upb> dude65535: no, the point is to prevent dictionary attacks
4036 2011-06-19 20:08:22 <phearful> "It's probably more profitable to use the GPU's to crack the passwords than mining :("
4037 2011-06-19 20:08:24 <upb> not 'make it more difficult'
4038 2011-06-19 20:08:34 wiedi has quit (Quit: all you need to do is STOP)
4039 2011-06-19 20:08:40 <ketsa> those exchanges should use PIN ident like banks...
4040 2011-06-19 20:08:47 n0n0 has joined
4041 2011-06-19 20:08:51 <kiba> 4 letter identication?
4042 2011-06-19 20:08:54 <kiba> sounds unsecure
4043 2011-06-19 20:09:02 <samlander> could crack that in .4 seconds with a gpu
4044 2011-06-19 20:09:16 <samlander> mandatory 12 character passwords upper, lower, numerical and symbols
4045 2011-06-19 20:09:20 <kobach> who uses only 4 digits for their bank pin?
4046 2011-06-19 20:09:22 <kobach> lmfao
4047 2011-06-19 20:09:29 <ketsa> no those pin card readers with 2 way auth
4048 2011-06-19 20:09:47 <samlander> kobach: in all fairness punch the wrong code 3 times in a row and you disable the card
4049 2011-06-19 20:10:01 G5 has left ()
4050 2011-06-19 20:10:03 <zxasqw> Hi! i need to run a server in windows in the background. Running 'bitcoin.exe -server' is ok, but it runs the ide too
4051 2011-06-19 20:10:05 <ketsa> never happened to me in years.
4052 2011-06-19 20:10:13 <zxasqw> anyone built a cmdline-windows version?
4053 2011-06-19 20:10:26 torsthaldo has joined
4054 2011-06-19 20:10:29 <purrr> look at order book on britcoin.co.uk, why would someone want to sell @0.005 40000 BTC for 200 GBP ?
4055 2011-06-19 20:10:34 <IncitatusOnWater> tcatm: what are you doing?
4056 2011-06-19 20:10:41 <tcatm> IncitatusOnWater: where?
4057 2011-06-19 20:10:43 <kobach> ya thats right a lot of people are stupid
4058 2011-06-19 20:10:44 <kobach> i forgot
4059 2011-06-19 20:10:46 <kobach> lol
4060 2011-06-19 20:10:49 <IncitatusOnWater> tcatm: i see you've rolled it back
4061 2011-06-19 20:10:51 <briareus> purrr: lol
4062 2011-06-19 20:10:52 <ius> 1765 md5-plain
4063 2011-06-19 20:10:52 <ius> 59249 md5-salted
4064 2011-06-19 20:10:55 <tcatm> IncitatusOnWater: yes
4065 2011-06-19 20:10:56 <purrr> hehe
4066 2011-06-19 20:11:00 <ius> That's better, including manual fixups
4067 2011-06-19 20:11:14 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
4068 2011-06-19 20:11:17 <IncitatusOnWater> tcatm: you do know that the malicious hacker had access to their wallet and it's more liekly then not that all the bitcoins were stolen
4069 2011-06-19 20:11:19 <briareus> this is how confidence in the bitcoin trade goes up in smoke
4070 2011-06-19 20:11:27 accel has quit (Quit: leaving)
4071 2011-06-19 20:11:44 torsthaldo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
4072 2011-06-19 20:11:48 <IncitatusOnWater> tcatm: therefore your bitcoinwatch.com site is incorrectly advertising
4073 2011-06-19 20:12:15 <tcatm> IncitatusOnWater: bitcoinwatch does not advertise anything. it just reports trades
4074 2011-06-19 20:12:25 <n0n0> Hey MagicalTux, how many btc got transferred out of the site during the hack? Can you cover that?
4075 2011-06-19 20:12:27 ersi has quit (Changing host)
4076 2011-06-19 20:12:27 ersi has joined
4077 2011-06-19 20:12:36 thechut has joined
4078 2011-06-19 20:12:40 <IncitatusOnWater> tcatm: also the legal ramifications of magicaltux rolling it back are illegal, he does not have the authority to do that and if I could contact him I would tell him to talk to a lawyer because i'm sure if he knew the jail time he'd face he wouldn't say things so blaze
4079 2011-06-19 20:12:48 Gonzago has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
4080 2011-06-19 20:12:54 <phearful> illegal in what jurisdiction
4081 2011-06-19 20:12:54 <phearful> lol
4082 2011-06-19 20:12:55 <IncitatusOnWater> tcatm: but you aren't reporting properly, those trades did go through
4083 2011-06-19 20:13:16 <tcatm> IncitatusOnWater: if they actually real they'll re-appear once mtgox is back
4084 2011-06-19 20:13:16 <IncitatusOnWater> phearful: illegal in japan, france the US and everywhere int he world lol
4085 2011-06-19 20:13:45 gribble has joined
4086 2011-06-19 20:13:48 <licutis> IncitatusOnWater: rolling back erronious trades is
4087 2011-06-19 20:13:57 <licutis> a common practace in the trading world
4088 2011-06-19 20:14:01 <IncitatusOnWater> tcatm: they were real trades though
4089 2011-06-19 20:14:34 <OVerLoRDI> IncitatusOnWater, not if the site was hacked, I don't that counts as real trades
4090 2011-06-19 20:14:38 <IncitatusOnWater> tcatm: the hacker had the ability to create bitcoins and send them out, it is unlikely someone that smart would not have cashed out
4091 2011-06-19 20:14:42 <random_cat> incitatusonwater: were the may flash crash trades erroneous or real?
4092 2011-06-19 20:15:08 <IncitatusOnWater> overlordi: if you have 5$ and I take 5$ from you, how much do u have?
4093 2011-06-19 20:15:17 <tcatm> IncitatusOnWater: doesn't matter. if mtgox confirms them as real they'll be readded.
4094 2011-06-19 20:15:18 <RealBorg> IncitatusOnWater, even the NYSE rolls back transactions if they declare a "mistrade"
4095 2011-06-19 20:15:18 <IncitatusOnWater> doesn't matter if I was allowed to take it or not
4096 2011-06-19 20:15:20 <jarly> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3174943/java-implementation-of-crypt3
4097 2011-06-19 20:15:23 <jarly> that's the type of hash
4098 2011-06-19 20:15:28 <jarly> with 1$1 and all
4099 2011-06-19 20:15:37 <RealBorg> like someone intentionally purging the order books
4100 2011-06-19 20:15:39 <picci> the guy could only take out 1000$ worth of bitcoins, but if the bitcoin value was 0.01 that is 100k btc!
4101 2011-06-19 20:15:39 <IncitatusOnWater> realborgL: you realize the money is mostlikely not there
4102 2011-06-19 20:16:07 <casascius> 100k btc didn't go out to one person, we'd see it on the blockexplorer if so
4103 2011-06-19 20:16:07 <IncitatusOnWater> i mean, if I go rob a bank, the bank owner can't just make the money back out of thin air if he doesn't have insurance
4104 2011-06-19 20:16:07 <n0n0> can anyone tell me how many btc got transferred out of mtgox? *someone* needs to cover that
4105 2011-06-19 20:16:15 <tcatm> IncitatusOnWater: I might however consider hiding mtgox completely until it is resolved.
4106 2011-06-19 20:16:41 <IncitatusOnWater> casascious, you are sure no money left in block explorer?
4107 2011-06-19 20:16:43 proplaya has left ()
4108 2011-06-19 20:16:54 aristidesfl has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4109 2011-06-19 20:17:05 lnet has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
4110 2011-06-19 20:17:09 Xaphias has left ()
4111 2011-06-19 20:17:13 <samlander> MagicalTux: putting an estimated time to go live on the support site would be appreicated
4112 2011-06-19 20:17:16 gribble has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
4113 2011-06-19 20:17:24 <MagicalTux> [05:16:28] <samlander> MagicalTux: putting an estimated time to go live on the support site would be appreicated <- it's already there
4114 2011-06-19 20:17:26 <RealBorg> IncitatusOnWater, most big banks don't have an insurance
4115 2011-06-19 20:17:27 Neocryptek_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4116 2011-06-19 20:17:32 aristidesfl has joined
4117 2011-06-19 20:17:43 <casascius> incitatusonwater: It looks as though a bunch of people withdrew BTC but not any single giant withdrawal 100k-like
4118 2011-06-19 20:17:52 <n0n0> MagicalTux, how many btc have been transferred out of mtgox which shouldnt?
4119 2011-06-19 20:17:59 takezo420 has joined
4120 2011-06-19 20:17:59 <IncitatusOnWater> casascious, did they withdraw before the press hit?
4121 2011-06-19 20:18:00 <n0n0> MagicalTux, can you cover that??
4122 2011-06-19 20:18:07 <TD> MagicalTux: any idea when you might have an update on what was compromised? my main concern is the contents of the aml@mtgox.com account
4123 2011-06-19 20:18:09 <moe1111> just out of interest. anybody has the mtgox tradelist from beginning of the sell till to the $.01 trades? can you upload it please? phearful postet a screenshot of bitcoincharts' recent trades earlier. maybe more of that? or mtgox/getTrades.php output? thanx!
4124 2011-06-19 20:18:15 arima has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4125 2011-06-19 20:18:17 <IncitatusOnWater> because if he had access to accounts, he would withdraw using a bot maybe
4126 2011-06-19 20:18:17 <MagicalTux> [05:17:07] <n0n0> MagicalTux, how many btc have been transferred out of mtgox which shouldnt? <- found ~100 BTC so far
4127 2011-06-19 20:18:28 <upb> lol
4128 2011-06-19 20:18:32 <n0n0> MagicalTux, finding means what?
4129 2011-06-19 20:18:39 <upb> john mtgox.pass
4130 2011-06-19 20:18:39 <upb> Loaded 59218 password hashes with 59218 different salts (FreeBSD MD5 [32/32])
4131 2011-06-19 20:18:42 <upb> Mr.LKS (Mr.LKS)
4132 2011-06-19 20:18:43 <n0n0> do you go manually through the transactions?
4133 2011-06-19 20:18:45 <upb> stupid! (stupid!)
4134 2011-06-19 20:18:47 <upb> butter (Pete Butter)
4135 2011-06-19 20:18:50 <upb> meinseins (MeinSeins@gmx.de)
4136 2011-06-19 20:18:52 <upb> intrepid (Qba-da-Intrepid)
4137 2011-06-19 20:18:55 <upb> sorry for flood
4138 2011-06-19 20:18:55 <IncitatusOnWater> MagicalTux, there was a transaction that moved 400.,000 BTC
4139 2011-06-19 20:18:57 <upb> under 1 sec
4140 2011-06-19 20:19:00 <IncitatusOnWater> exactly when this shit happened
4141 2011-06-19 20:19:04 * andyfletcher hands MagicalTux a large flask of coffee, wishes him luck with the site recovery and retires to bed
4142 2011-06-19 20:19:09 <samlander> what is 2:00 am gmt in mst ?
4143 2011-06-19 20:19:22 yellowhat has joined
4144 2011-06-19 20:19:25 manifold_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4145 2011-06-19 20:19:29 <samlander> or more specifically what is gmt in utc- ?
4146 2011-06-19 20:19:36 <jlgaddis> ask google
4147 2011-06-19 20:19:37 <kobach> gmt = utc
4148 2011-06-19 20:19:42 <ersi> Haha, oh man.
4149 2011-06-19 20:19:45 <IncitatusOnWater> magicaltux, you said no accounts were compromised a few days ago and that is when the 400K transaction happened
4150 2011-06-19 20:19:46 <IncitatusOnWater> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/a09ac44c71a314316431f53dcf51d5c0ffdf85b738a6b07f622012ee41b38c16
4151 2011-06-19 20:19:47 <jogis> moe1111: http://ifile.it/eui3szp
4152 2011-06-19 20:20:09 <MrSambal> GMT is NOT UTC
4153 2011-06-19 20:20:25 <n0n0> MagicalTux, will you reset all passwords for those who have an email address and send out reset-password-emails?
4154 2011-06-19 20:20:26 <andyfletcher> up to 0.9 second difference
4155 2011-06-19 20:20:30 <IncitatusOnWater> magicaltux, please tell me you moved this money to yourself to a more trusted wallet, this 8.6 million dollars
4156 2011-06-19 20:20:31 <samlander> so basically 5 hrs from now
4157 2011-06-19 20:20:40 <PatrikR> i bet magicaltux is having the best monday morning EVER!
4158 2011-06-19 20:20:42 S7_ has joined
4159 2011-06-19 20:20:45 <kobach> UTC is closely related to Universal Time and Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) and within informal or casual contexts where sub-second precision is not required, it can be used interchangeably.
4160 2011-06-19 20:20:52 <MagicalTux> [05:19:55] <PatrikR> i bet magicaltux is having the best monday morning EVER! <- you bet!
4161 2011-06-19 20:20:54 <upb> jogis: thanks :)
4162 2011-06-19 20:21:03 <n0n0> MagicalTux, did they get hold of your wallet?
4163 2011-06-19 20:21:08 <IncitatusOnWater> n0n0: don't u care if hte moeny is there or not
4164 2011-06-19 20:21:15 <jogis> upb: np :)
4165 2011-06-19 20:21:24 <n0n0> IncitatusOnWater, i do?
4166 2011-06-19 20:21:35 <IncitatusOnWater> MagicalTux, did you send the money to another account of your own or is this 8 million dollars lost to a theif
4167 2011-06-19 20:21:51 <casascius> incitatusonwater: likely to own
4168 2011-06-19 20:21:59 <picci> can the japanese guy roll back the block chain ?
4169 2011-06-19 20:22:01 <casascius> incitatusonwater: looks like 32.11 was spend, remainder was change
4170 2011-06-19 20:22:06 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4171 2011-06-19 20:22:12 <samlander> picci: now that is an intersting idea
4172 2011-06-19 20:22:23 <moe1111> jogis:thanks! goin to parse it..
4173 2011-06-19 20:22:29 MetaV has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4174 2011-06-19 20:22:36 <samlander> can satoshi roll back the block chain
4175 2011-06-19 20:22:38 <IncitatusOnWater> casascious: MagicalTux could prove he still has the 8 million dolalrs
4176 2011-06-19 20:22:40 Joric has joined
4177 2011-06-19 20:22:42 <samlander> i thik if he could bitcoin would probably die
4178 2011-06-19 20:22:46 <picci> satoshiiiiiiiiiii
4179 2011-06-19 20:22:46 <sipa> samlander: no
4180 2011-06-19 20:22:48 <picci> get ur ass here!
4181 2011-06-19 20:22:49 <jogis> moe1111: np, share the results with the crowd, if you dig out anything interesting :)
4182 2011-06-19 20:23:05 Veladon has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
4183 2011-06-19 20:23:13 <picci> he can't ?
4184 2011-06-19 20:23:15 <wumpus> samlander: no, he can't
4185 2011-06-19 20:23:18 <n0n0> MagicalTux, IncitatusOnWater idea of proving that you have the money is a good idea to instill confidence. can you do that?
4186 2011-06-19 20:23:24 <copumpkin> samlander: it's designed so nobody has that kind of power
4187 2011-06-19 20:23:28 <moe1111> jogis: sure!
4188 2011-06-19 20:23:31 <eps> and now britcoin have taken themselves down....
4189 2011-06-19 20:23:37 <wumpus> only trades on mtgox will be rolled back, not the bitcoin block chain
4190 2011-06-19 20:23:59 <casascius> For those who have balances and weak passwords and e-mail addresses, perhaps login can be restricted to the IP range of previous logins?
4191 2011-06-19 20:23:59 <KuDeTa> that list of account
4192 2011-06-19 20:23:59 <KuDeTa> s
4193 2011-06-19 20:24:06 <KuDeTa> has unprotected md5
4194 2011-06-19 20:24:09 <KuDeTa> many of which are hackable
4195 2011-06-19 20:24:10 <moe1111> jogis: won;t happen before tomorrow though..
4196 2011-06-19 20:24:14 lolak has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4197 2011-06-19 20:24:22 <KuDeTa> ive just checked
4198 2011-06-19 20:24:26 <picci> casascius: that is a good idea.
4199 2011-06-19 20:24:27 <n0n0> MagicalTux, please sign some statement of you with the private key of the large transaction. THAT is needed now.
4200 2011-06-19 20:24:37 <KuDeTa> does someone have the ability to email ~1000 people?
4201 2011-06-19 20:24:45 <n0n0> ... and move the money to another, fresh key.
4202 2011-06-19 20:24:46 <KuDeTa> someone needs to warn them all quickly
4203 2011-06-19 20:24:47 corlibro has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4204 2011-06-19 20:24:53 Teslah has joined
4205 2011-06-19 20:24:54 doofus2 has joined
4206 2011-06-19 20:25:00 <IncitatusOnWater> MagicalTux, you said 2 days ago that no accounts were compromised after peopel had been reporting the same problem for over a week, you have sence edited that post. Please cofirm you have the money
4207 2011-06-19 20:25:23 <Speeder> passwords has been cracked already?
4208 2011-06-19 20:25:33 <jlgaddis> KuDeTa: hmm, good idea
4209 2011-06-19 20:25:43 bahk has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4210 2011-06-19 20:25:43 <Gaming4JC> Speeder: don't take unnesscary risks. change passwords :P
4211 2011-06-19 20:25:46 <n0n0> IncitatusOnWater, so much for decentralisation :)
4212 2011-06-19 20:25:47 <AntiVigilante> Speeder they were craxable to begin with
4213 2011-06-19 20:25:51 <Speeder> Gaming4JC: I know.
4214 2011-06-19 20:25:51 nocreativenick1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4215 2011-06-19 20:25:51 <jarly> 1779 unsalted..
4216 2011-06-19 20:25:59 <ketsa> im a noob and cracked 2 out of 4 i tested. in seconds. non-salted ones.
4217 2011-06-19 20:26:01 Eisenaxt has joined
4218 2011-06-19 20:26:02 <eps> i don't believe mtgox will be back up by 10am JST
4219 2011-06-19 20:26:03 <Speeder> I want to know if people already cracked passwords
4220 2011-06-19 20:26:07 <Gaming4JC> ah
4221 2011-06-19 20:26:09 <Speeder> I see.
4222 2011-06-19 20:26:18 dtionfosoagong has joined
4223 2011-06-19 20:26:18 Guest27253 has joined
4224 2011-06-19 20:26:18 nocreativenick1 has joined
4225 2011-06-19 20:26:19 <Speeder> why they are so easy to crack?
4226 2011-06-19 20:26:19 <n0n0> I wonder what will happen with bitcoin. I think it will suvive with a _major_ setback. And the withdrawn money will be marked as tainted now. Hopefully. Removed from the system.
4227 2011-06-19 20:26:22 Rolz73 has joined
4228 2011-06-19 20:26:25 <upb> they probably did, before even the attack and leak :)
4229 2011-06-19 20:26:26 <Speeder> what they are? regular md5 hash without salt?
4230 2011-06-19 20:26:30 <KuDeTa> yea speeder
4231 2011-06-19 20:26:31 <upb> prolly just waited till today
4232 2011-06-19 20:26:35 <ketsa> they were already cracked and appear on lists online...
4233 2011-06-19 20:26:37 delpes has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4234 2011-06-19 20:26:41 <Speeder> oh
4235 2011-06-19 20:26:42 <eps> tainted bitcoins?
4236 2011-06-19 20:26:42 <lyspooner> can someone tell me how to do forwarding ports please? i can't get connected to any nodes
4237 2011-06-19 20:26:44 <AntiVigilante> Speeder: because some retards used theior own username as passwords
4238 2011-06-19 20:26:46 Guest27253 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4239 2011-06-19 20:26:47 <Gaming4JC> I know how to mass email, but imo MagicalTux should do it officially
4240 2011-06-19 20:26:49 <n0n0> IncitatusOnWater, that is what I would do. Never ever accept any incoming money from that large transaction without a VERY GOOD explanation.
4241 2011-06-19 20:26:50 <eps> they will just sell them OTC
4242 2011-06-19 20:26:58 <Speeder> AntiVigilante I see, thus allowing you to see the salt, if it had salt
4243 2011-06-19 20:27:08 <sipa> lyspooner: which bitcoin version?
4244 2011-06-19 20:27:11 <AntiVigilante> salts were unique
4245 2011-06-19 20:27:17 <n0n0> eps, yep. but that gives a red flag.
4246 2011-06-19 20:27:18 <Speeder> AntiVigilante then how?
4247 2011-06-19 20:27:19 <jrmithdobbs> DON'T USE YOUR FUCKING USERNAMES AS YOUR PASSWORD ASSHATS
4248 2011-06-19 20:27:20 <jrmithdobbs> http://pastebin.com/SncA7gtV
4249 2011-06-19 20:27:21 joebitcoin1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4250 2011-06-19 20:27:24 <yellowhat> how ais the MD5 encoded? for example $1$E1xAsgR1$vPt0d/L3f81Ys3SxJ7rIh/ is this base64 encodedor what?
4251 2011-06-19 20:27:25 Beccara has joined
4252 2011-06-19 20:27:28 <n0n0> eps, we need a distributed web-of-trust for tainted money.
4253 2011-06-19 20:27:30 <samlander> AntiVigilante: do you have the list and the ability to crack passwords?
4254 2011-06-19 20:27:34 <lyspooner> .21 sipa
4255 2011-06-19 20:27:36 <brocktice> jrmithdobbs: yeah that's... bad
4256 2011-06-19 20:27:37 <IncitatusOnWater> MagicalTux, can you confirm you sent the moeny to yourself? By sending .12BTCs or something liek that
4257 2011-06-19 20:27:37 anu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
4258 2011-06-19 20:27:47 <n0n0> IncitatusOnWater, seconded!
4259 2011-06-19 20:27:52 <upb> yellowhat: man crypt
4260 2011-06-19 20:27:56 <AntiVigilante> samlander john password.dat is all it took
4261 2011-06-19 20:27:57 <sipa> lyspooner: .23 has improvements for connections
4262 2011-06-19 20:28:05 farketuhelio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4263 2011-06-19 20:28:07 delpes has joined
4264 2011-06-19 20:28:10 anu has joined
4265 2011-06-19 20:28:18 <Gaming4JC> jrmithdobbs: o_o
4266 2011-06-19 20:28:22 Guest447 has joined
4267 2011-06-19 20:28:26 <IncitatusOnWater> MagicalTux: the 400,000 BTC transfer that happened when you were compromised 2 days ago, can you confirm that you sent that to yourself
4268 2011-06-19 20:28:27 lipjes has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4269 2011-06-19 20:28:32 <n0n0> MagicalTux, now would be the time to have up a website just for withdrawing the BTC that are on your site. before you restart trading.
4270 2011-06-19 20:28:35 <Kireji> ;;bc,mtgox
4271 2011-06-19 20:28:47 <IncitatusOnWater> n0n0, I don't think he has the BTC
4272 2011-06-19 20:28:49 mtgox_lol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4273 2011-06-19 20:28:56 <IncitatusOnWater> the hacker had access to those BTC
4274 2011-06-19 20:28:59 <IncitatusOnWater> why wouldn't he cash it out
4275 2011-06-19 20:29:01 <n0n0> IncitatusOnWater, I do not think so either. this is very smelly.
4276 2011-06-19 20:29:04 grnbrg has joined
4277 2011-06-19 20:29:05 <jrmithdobbs> n0n0: i'm assuming this is a full compromise until tux PROVES otherwise
4278 2011-06-19 20:29:06 <IncitatusOnWater> that was what the 400,000BTC transfer was
4279 2011-06-19 20:29:12 <n0n0> jrmithdobbs, exactly.
4280 2011-06-19 20:29:32 <Kireji> IncitatusOnWater: all the btc on mtgox were removed?
4281 2011-06-19 20:29:34 subpar_ has joined
4282 2011-06-19 20:29:39 <n0n0> glad that i only had ~$1000 of btc on the site :| (well according to latest market prices, which will have a readjustment :)
4283 2011-06-19 20:29:39 <upb> not that hard to get code execution and/or file read/write with default mysql install :)
4284 2011-06-19 20:29:46 <elnato> omg stfu with the rumors
4285 2011-06-19 20:29:48 <purrr> other exchanges down, britcoin moving servers to prevent attacks ??
4286 2011-06-19 20:29:48 <briareus> this is how confidence is gutted and bleeds out
4287 2011-06-19 20:30:02 <AntiVigilante> and then we starts again
4288 2011-06-19 20:30:06 <n0n0> MagicalTux, please do not ignore the voices here. Prove the possesion of your coins. Please.
4289 2011-06-19 20:30:15 <kiba> briareus: will you shut up?
4290 2011-06-19 20:30:16 <AntiVigilante> n0n0 he's working
4291 2011-06-19 20:30:23 <kiba> dude, he's one person
4292 2011-06-19 20:30:25 <n0n0> i surely hope so
4293 2011-06-19 20:30:30 <KuDeTa> he needs more people
4294 2011-06-19 20:30:32 <KuDeTa> thats for sure
4295 2011-06-19 20:30:33 <kiba> he does
4296 2011-06-19 20:30:35 <purrr> https://www.britcoin.co.uk/
4297 2011-06-19 20:30:37 <copumpkin> kiba: he was spamming #bitcoin-otc-foyer when the dump was happening, too
4298 2011-06-19 20:30:38 <sipa> i think he has better things to do now
4299 2011-06-19 20:30:39 <kiba> he hired a Japanese lady
4300 2011-06-19 20:30:42 <AntiVigilante> look at al the pussies in here
4301 2011-06-19 20:30:48 <KuDeTa> purrr: is it alive still?
4302 2011-06-19 20:30:51 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: prove to us you have possession of those coins
4303 2011-06-19 20:30:53 <Optimo> jrmithdobbs ouch. basic password stuff would not even let you set your password to that
4304 2011-06-19 20:30:54 <kiba> AntiVigilante: will you also shut up?
4305 2011-06-19 20:30:56 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: no double talk and assurances
4306 2011-06-19 20:31:00 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: prove it
4307 2011-06-19 20:31:01 bitcoin-lol has joined
4308 2011-06-19 20:31:02 Guest447 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4309 2011-06-19 20:31:11 <ius> upb: Just tick that file privilege please :)
4310 2011-06-19 20:31:15 <purrr> KuDeTa: read the message
4311 2011-06-19 20:31:21 <KuDeTa> just did
4312 2011-06-19 20:31:25 <kiba> jrmithdobbs: spamming magicaltux will not get your questions answered
4313 2011-06-19 20:31:27 <KuDeTa> press is gona love it
4314 2011-06-19 20:31:31 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
4315 2011-06-19 20:31:32 <upb> ius: haha :)
4316 2011-06-19 20:31:36 <eps> guys this is just one exchange, it is not the end of bitcoin
4317 2011-06-19 20:31:37 <Kireji> this is a really good argument for open-source exchange software
4318 2011-06-19 20:31:39 <jrmithdobbs> kiba: i have no questions just demands ;P
4319 2011-06-19 20:31:47 <upb> ius: didnt he have db and app on the same box btw :P
4320 2011-06-19 20:31:48 <KuDeTa> eps: this was, THE exchange
4321 2011-06-19 20:32:06 <copumpkin> jrmithdobbs: he'll just get defensive or stop being responsive
4322 2011-06-19 20:32:14 <hwolf> I think this kind of thing just makes bitcoin better, less centralized
4323 2011-06-19 20:32:24 <kiba> hwolf: ya mean the ecosystem
4324 2011-06-19 20:32:27 <pasky> exactly my feeling
4325 2011-06-19 20:32:29 <jrmithdobbs> copumpkin: he's been lieing and unresponsive re: security issue reports for weeks
4326 2011-06-19 20:32:32 <n0n0> hwolf, agreed, but it will first drop the price <1$.
4327 2011-06-19 20:32:32 <jrmithdobbs> copumpkin: too late for that
4328 2011-06-19 20:32:39 <eps> yeah, we needed trading balanced on other exchanges
4329 2011-06-19 20:32:41 <sanchaz> does anyone have the user info dump from mtgox?
4330 2011-06-19 20:32:41 <Kireji> hwolf: yeah. that which does not kill you, only makes you stronger. Once you are through it.
4331 2011-06-19 20:32:45 <hwolf> it also makes me think again about being a hacker.. jk
4332 2011-06-19 20:32:46 <pasky> no way the price will drop that low
4333 2011-06-19 20:32:58 <ketsa> amaziong the number of ppl that have only lowercase and short passwd :p
4334 2011-06-19 20:33:06 <pasky> i think it will stay around 10 now while the trading exchange scene gets reconsolidated
4335 2011-06-19 20:33:08 Raulo has joined
4336 2011-06-19 20:33:13 <tcatm> FYI, bitcoincharts is online again; with the last mtgox trades removed
4337 2011-06-19 20:33:15 <briareus> [15:31] < opus_> somebody CRACKED my password ... and private messaged me it
4338 2011-06-19 20:33:17 <Kireji> ketsa: did someone dump the passwds from mtgox?
4339 2011-06-19 20:33:18 <kiba> ketsa: nobody like inconvenient passwords
4340 2011-06-19 20:33:26 <purrr> interesting... britcoin bid price is 1000GBP on bitcoincharts.com, wtf ? :)
4341 2011-06-19 20:33:34 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: yup
4342 2011-06-19 20:33:40 ThomasV_ has joined
4343 2011-06-19 20:33:41 <Kireji> jrmithdobbs: ref/links?
4344 2011-06-19 20:33:43 <bitcoin-lol> britcoin trading is suspended
4345 2011-06-19 20:33:43 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: half are plain md5
4346 2011-06-19 20:33:44 <hwolf> its not like all our bitcoins were stolen out of some bank, most of us still our coins
4347 2011-06-19 20:33:48 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: half are salted unix md5
4348 2011-06-19 20:33:49 <tcatm> purrr: that's real. I asked them about that
4349 2011-06-19 20:33:49 talso has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
4350 2011-06-19 20:33:55 <ketsa> Kireji: user db was leaked.
4351 2011-06-19 20:33:56 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: this is a clusterfuck
4352 2011-06-19 20:33:59 theymos has joined
4353 2011-06-19 20:34:03 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
4354 2011-06-19 20:34:04 <copumpkin> https://www.britcoin.co.uk/
4355 2011-06-19 20:34:05 <Kireji> ffs
4356 2011-06-19 20:34:14 <casascius> feel free to crack MY password....I"m user ID 991....pm me if you get it...1 BTC bounty
4357 2011-06-19 20:34:18 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: http://ifile.it/a3kl16j
4358 2011-06-19 20:34:19 <kiba> copumpkin: they're moving
4359 2011-06-19 20:34:26 <copumpkin> kiba: I know, I mean the statement
4360 2011-06-19 20:34:27 <Kireji> thanks
4361 2011-06-19 20:34:32 <bitcoin-lol> "for security reasons we are assuming that MTGox has none of it's client's bitcoins."
4362 2011-06-19 20:34:36 HiddenDuck has left ()
4363 2011-06-19 20:34:37 <Optimo> is it pronounced M-T after all
4364 2011-06-19 20:34:41 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: want the list of the ones that are the same as their username? lol
4365 2011-06-19 20:34:43 <cprompt> I am soo soo sooo glad I pulled all of my money out a few days ago. "Hmm, maybe I shoudl make a big payment on my credit card"
4366 2011-06-19 20:34:47 <purrr> tcatm: whoah, hope my orders get filled !
4367 2011-06-19 20:34:51 <eps> what is a gox?
4368 2011-06-19 20:34:51 <bitsnbytes> copumkin you might want to use tradehill as well http://www.tradehill.com/?r=TH-R12858
4369 2011-06-19 20:34:52 <cprompt> and no, I didn't have 500,000 :)
4370 2011-06-19 20:34:52 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: http://pastebin.com/SncA7gtV
4371 2011-06-19 20:34:52 <upb> 'While our servers were separate, we were purchasing server space from MagicalTux, the owner/operator of MTGox'
4372 2011-06-19 20:34:56 <upb> o_O
4373 2011-06-19 20:34:58 <eps> if M T is magical tux
4374 2011-06-19 20:34:58 <upb> wat
4375 2011-06-19 20:34:59 <kiba> I pulled my money out of mtgox long ago
4376 2011-06-19 20:35:17 <copumpkin> bitsnbytes: I already have an account, but thanks for the attempted referral :P
4377 2011-06-19 20:35:30 <coderrr> upb, who is that from ?
4378 2011-06-19 20:35:31 <casascius> if someone gets my password (casascius user id 991) pm it to me with a bitcoin address for the bounty
4379 2011-06-19 20:35:34 <bitsnbytes> copumpkin no problse
4380 2011-06-19 20:35:39 <sanchaz> jrmithdobbs: thats all the user info from mtgox?
4381 2011-06-19 20:35:41 <upb> coderrr: from https://www.britcoin.co.uk/
4382 2011-06-19 20:35:50 <coderrr> lol
4383 2011-06-19 20:35:51 <coderrr> k
4384 2011-06-19 20:35:54 <upb> like there arent any hosting providers, just gotta double the risk :D
4385 2011-06-19 20:35:54 <jrmithdobbs> sanchaz: first link is, yes, second is just the ones with user/password being the same
4386 2011-06-19 20:35:58 <upb> by hosting them on the same box
4387 2011-06-19 20:35:58 <sanchaz> kk
4388 2011-06-19 20:36:16 <purrr> 8 decimal places, here we come !
4389 2011-06-19 20:36:19 <eps> not all
4390 2011-06-19 20:36:36 makomk has joined
4391 2011-06-19 20:36:38 <enquire> heh lumcle,onvac@centrum.cz has password "aaaaaa"
4392 2011-06-19 20:36:51 <Kireji> jrmithdobbs: that is not all the accounts
4393 2011-06-19 20:37:04 grndzero has joined
4394 2011-06-19 20:37:06 <theymos> Anyone crack my MtGox password yet? It was pretty good.
4395 2011-06-19 20:37:08 Skinnner has joined
4396 2011-06-19 20:37:16 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: the first link?
4397 2011-06-19 20:37:27 <fire123> i hope i still have my 1btc in my account!
4398 2011-06-19 20:37:28 <Kireji> yeah, I had a mygox account, and it's not on that list
4399 2011-06-19 20:37:34 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: looks like it to me
4400 2011-06-19 20:37:35 <jrmithdobbs> $ wc -l mtgox-accounts.csv 61017 mtgox-accounts.csv
4401 2011-06-19 20:37:36 <briareus> http://pastebin.com/hN7PxRhc
4402 2011-06-19 20:38:07 <sturles> My password in the file is an old one. Means it was leaked several days ago, at least.
4403 2011-06-19 20:38:16 <briareus> yes
4404 2011-06-19 20:38:36 <random_cat> i can confirm that it is less than 7 days old
4405 2011-06-19 20:38:40 <jogis> is there any exchange that is not using the same engine as mtgox was?
4406 2011-06-19 20:38:41 <Diablo-D3> heh
4407 2011-06-19 20:38:44 <casascius> I changed my password yesterday. My old password is within the reach of a brute force attack, so if this is days old, maybe someone will earn the bounty.
4408 2011-06-19 20:38:46 <upb> briareus: we do know the hashing method :)
4409 2011-06-19 20:38:49 <jrmithdobbs> i can confirm it's less than 30 days old
4410 2011-06-19 20:38:51 <Kireji> jrmithdobbs: sorry, take that back, it's there
4411 2011-06-19 20:38:54 <Kireji> FFS
4412 2011-06-19 20:39:05 <BGL> i changed pw's about a week ago
4413 2011-06-19 20:39:06 <anu> the file is from Yesterday
4414 2011-06-19 20:39:13 <JakeMates> On the plus side, it's now convinced me to generate unique 30+ char passwords per site :P
4415 2011-06-19 20:39:14 <Diablo-D3> so
4416 2011-06-19 20:39:15 <BGL> i hope it's not my old pw
4417 2011-06-19 20:39:15 <Speeder> can someone get one of my accounts password?
4418 2011-06-19 20:39:18 <anu> I made a new user yesterday - it's included
4419 2011-06-19 20:39:23 <Speeder> I changed it recently
4420 2011-06-19 20:39:25 <Diablo-D3> JakeMates: wtf, you should ALREADY be doing that
4421 2011-06-19 20:39:26 phearful has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4422 2011-06-19 20:39:27 <Optimo> less than 1 day i think
4423 2011-06-19 20:39:35 <Diablo-D3> so, how is he salting passwords?
4424 2011-06-19 20:39:37 <Speeder> I have a account with e-mail orspeeder+mtgox@gmail.com
4425 2011-06-19 20:39:39 <anu> as one of the last
4426 2011-06-19 20:39:40 <BGL> heh i tried to change it yesterday and gox kept failing to save the new pw
4427 2011-06-19 20:39:42 <sturles> An't be. I changed my password thursday, I think. Could be friday, but I believe it was thursday. And my old password is in the file,
4428 2011-06-19 20:39:43 <Optimo> saltoshi
4429 2011-06-19 20:39:44 <midnightmagic> Diablo-D3: some of them aren't,.
4430 2011-06-19 20:39:44 <Speeder> someone PM me the password of that account
4431 2011-06-19 20:39:45 <BGL> and i ended up locked out
4432 2011-06-19 20:39:57 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: ~50% are salted unix md5, ~50% are straight up single pass md5 digests
4433 2011-06-19 20:39:57 <BGL> it blocked an ip of mine
4434 2011-06-19 20:40:02 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: fuckin LOL
4435 2011-06-19 20:40:07 <JakeMates> Diablo-D3: only did 15 char alphanumeric before, now doing 30 char all types
4436 2011-06-19 20:40:07 <Speeder> if we track all password changes that are not on the list, we can figure WHEN it leaked exactly
4437 2011-06-19 20:40:23 <Diablo-D3> JakeMates: I usually do makepasswd --min 16 --max 24
4438 2011-06-19 20:40:26 <Diablo-D3> unique, every stie.
4439 2011-06-19 20:40:33 bonsaikitten has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4440 2011-06-19 20:40:33 <Kireji> jrmithdobbs: rand(0.5){call_password_salt()}
4441 2011-06-19 20:40:44 <Kireji> lol
4442 2011-06-19 20:40:48 <makomk> I wonder if the Bitcoin hash rate will... mysteriously drop.
4443 2011-06-19 20:40:49 <jrmithdobbs> Kireji: think the hashing mechanism changed at one point
4444 2011-06-19 20:40:57 <Diablo-D3> at any rate.
4445 2011-06-19 20:41:06 <cprompt> Interesting thought: The people who were dumb enough to use the same password as their username probably used the same username and password on other exchanges.
4446 2011-06-19 20:41:09 <Diablo-D3> Im not even sure if I care about bitcoin anymore
4447 2011-06-19 20:41:19 <Diablo-D3> the fail is just too much
4448 2011-06-19 20:41:24 <hmmmm> fail?
4449 2011-06-19 20:41:24 <hmmmm> how
4450 2011-06-19 20:41:25 <jogis> Diablo-D3: why so?
4451 2011-06-19 20:41:27 <Kireji> Diablo-D3: stop troling
4452 2011-06-19 20:41:27 <Optimo> I am theorizing an order crafted to buy every coin in mtgox :0
4453 2011-06-19 20:41:28 <sturles> It isn't Bitcoin's fault.
4454 2011-06-19 20:41:29 <BGL> fuqsake they allowed the pw to be the same as the u.n?
4455 2011-06-19 20:41:35 <ius> cprompt: That's not specific to those using their username as pw ;)
4456 2011-06-19 20:41:36 <Kireji> Diablo-D3: you've been trolling like that for weeks
4457 2011-06-19 20:41:36 <Diablo-D3> Kireji: dude, I was here long before anyone else here
4458 2011-06-19 20:41:43 bonsaikitten has joined
4459 2011-06-19 20:41:44 <Kireji> so?
4460 2011-06-19 20:41:44 <sturles> Bitcoin is secure enough. It is the exchanges.
4461 2011-06-19 20:41:49 <Diablo-D3> I was probably within the first dozen people who adopted bitcoin
4462 2011-06-19 20:41:54 <Speeder> people Diablo-D3 is depressed, do not care about him.
4463 2011-06-19 20:41:54 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: i agree. the people running the bitcoin-related services are all incompetant just about
4464 2011-06-19 20:41:55 <Kireji> Diablo-D3: who cares?
4465 2011-06-19 20:41:57 <cprompt> ius: True :)
4466 2011-06-19 20:41:59 <jrmithdobbs> with very few exceptions
4467 2011-06-19 20:42:02 <Diablo-D3> where the fuck did bitcoin go wrong?
4468 2011-06-19 20:42:06 <hmmmm> and are you regretting not selling everything when they hit $30/
4469 2011-06-19 20:42:12 <kobach> bitcoin IS NOT MTGOX
4470 2011-06-19 20:42:13 <cprompt> Diablo-D3: Centralizing around exchanges, probably
4471 2011-06-19 20:42:14 <kobach> GET IT STRAIGHT
4472 2011-06-19 20:42:17 ThomasV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4473 2011-06-19 20:42:19 <theymos> Diablo-D3: Too much promotion, I think. It grew too fast.
4474 2011-06-19 20:42:20 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: trusting people like MagicalTux
4475 2011-06-19 20:42:20 <Diablo-D3> how did we attract all these ... people
4476 2011-06-19 20:42:22 <Optimo> bitcoin is cool
4477 2011-06-19 20:42:22 fire123 has left ()
4478 2011-06-19 20:42:24 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: that's where
4479 2011-06-19 20:42:24 <makomk> sturles: it's bitcoin users' fault... for trusting dumb exchanges and assuming any information about security issues is some gubernment conspiracy.
4480 2011-06-19 20:42:29 HarryS has joined
4481 2011-06-19 20:42:30 <hwolf> Diablo did you have 500K bitcoins on mtgox?
4482 2011-06-19 20:42:30 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: its not that
4483 2011-06-19 20:42:30 ThomasV_ has quit (Quit: Quitte)
4484 2011-06-19 20:42:31 <Diablo-D3> its just
4485 2011-06-19 20:42:34 <picci> kobach: bitcoin IS mtgox, unfortunately
4486 2011-06-19 20:42:36 <sturles> Yep.
4487 2011-06-19 20:42:36 <Diablo-D3> hwolf: I had zero.
4488 2011-06-19 20:42:38 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: no. it IS that.
4489 2011-06-19 20:42:40 <purrr> kobach: +1
4490 2011-06-19 20:42:45 <upb> 200 passes done in 25min
4491 2011-06-19 20:42:46 <makomk> Seriously, the bitcoin user populace is depressing.
4492 2011-06-19 20:42:47 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: its that everyone is a fucking moron.,
4493 2011-06-19 20:42:52 <BGL> assuming i haven't lost anything i'm probly transferring my coins to th
4494 2011-06-19 20:42:53 ThomasV has joined
4495 2011-06-19 20:42:54 <Diablo-D3> and Im tired of it
4496 2011-06-19 20:42:54 <copumpkin> picci: not sure I agree with that
4497 2011-06-19 20:42:57 oneohoneohfive has left ("bye")
4498 2011-06-19 20:42:57 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: show me a bitcoin web service and i'll show you 2-3 simple exploits for it within 30 min
4499 2011-06-19 20:42:59 <Diablo-D3> day in and day out I try to educate people
4500 2011-06-19 20:43:04 <picci> the value of bitcoins is based on mtgox
4501 2011-06-19 20:43:05 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: mine. there are none.
4502 2011-06-19 20:43:06 <eps> guys, was this lulzsec?
4503 2011-06-19 20:43:11 <Diablo-D3> eps: no
4504 2011-06-19 20:43:11 <hmmmm> no
4505 2011-06-19 20:43:11 <picci> eps: nah
4506 2011-06-19 20:43:11 <viggi> eps: no
4507 2011-06-19 20:43:12 <Kireji> let's get this straight - mtgox was built as a trading CARD site for Magic the Gathering.
4508 2011-06-19 20:43:13 DukeOfURL has joined
4509 2011-06-19 20:43:16 <Diablo-D3> lulzsec doesnt bother with the easy shit
4510 2011-06-19 20:43:21 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: you know what i'm saying though. it's a true statement for the vast majority of tehm
4511 2011-06-19 20:43:22 <eps> this would fit their mo, to release the user accounts
4512 2011-06-19 20:43:24 <enki> well, if we're trying to make code law, we better fix our code
4513 2011-06-19 20:43:27 <hmmmm> lulzsec DOES easy shit
4514 2011-06-19 20:43:27 <enki> simple as t hat
4515 2011-06-19 20:43:30 <purrr> eps: he is a big user of bitcoins apparently
4516 2011-06-19 20:43:31 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: fuck dude, its true for MOST OF THE FUCKING INTERNET
4517 2011-06-19 20:43:31 <kobach> Magic The Gathering Online Exchange
4518 2011-06-19 20:43:33 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: what are your services?
4519 2011-06-19 20:43:37 <Kireji> OF COURSE the same people who are interested in MTG trading are going to be experts at financial IT systems security
4520 2011-06-19 20:43:43 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: not for most FINANCIAL providers on the internet, it's not
4521 2011-06-19 20:43:45 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4522 2011-06-19 20:43:49 <Diablo-D3> jrmithdobbs: the pool software that Im wondering if I should even bother releasing
4523 2011-06-19 20:44:01 hamush1 has joined
4524 2011-06-19 20:44:06 hamush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4525 2011-06-19 20:44:06 <UukGoblin> md5... /me breaks hands
4526 2011-06-19 20:44:07 <IncitatusOnWater> MagicalTux, can you CONFIRM or DENY, that the 400,000BTC transfer was yours
4527 2011-06-19 20:44:19 d1234 has joined
4528 2011-06-19 20:44:27 <picci> IncitatusOnWater: don't worry.. they're gone :P
4529 2011-06-19 20:44:32 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: a bunch of php tards with no security background jumped on the bandwagon and released a bunch of csrf/sqli latent code to handle financial txns
4530 2011-06-19 20:44:41 <jrmithdobbs> Diablo-D3: you asked what went wrong... THAT is what went wrong.
4531 2011-06-19 20:44:49 <Kireji> why is blockexplorer down?
4532 2011-06-19 20:44:50 <Optimo> auto bought and sold all the coins in the 50% md5-only account list?
4533 2011-06-19 20:44:52 <picci> jrmithdobbs: agreed
4534 2011-06-19 20:44:55 <Diablo-D3> and fuck, who the fuck uses md5
4535 2011-06-19 20:44:57 <sanchaz> the passwords are hashed using MD5?
4536 2011-06-19 20:44:58 <enki> IncitatusOnWater: was there a recent 400000 btc transfer?
4537 2011-06-19 20:45:02 <jrmithdobbs> sanchaz: yup.
4538 2011-06-19 20:45:05 <sanchaz> wtf
4539 2011-06-19 20:45:07 <IncitatusOnWater> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/a09ac44c71a314316431f53dcf51d5c0ffdf85b738a6b07f622012ee41b38c16
4540 2011-06-19 20:45:07 <picci> enki: apparently...
4541 2011-06-19 20:45:08 <Kireji> sanchaz: only some of them
4542 2011-06-19 20:45:11 <ShadeS> wasn't md5 broken years ago?
4543 2011-06-19 20:45:12 <edcba> so has mtgox been hacked ?
4544 2011-06-19 20:45:13 <IncitatusOnWater> about the same time MTGOx was hacked
4545 2011-06-19 20:45:13 <jrmithdobbs> sanchaz: the ones with $1$ are salted unix md5
4546 2011-06-19 20:45:16 <theymos> Kireji: I'll try to get it up in a few minutes. Lots of traffic.
4547 2011-06-19 20:45:19 * kiba is very paranoid
4548 2011-06-19 20:45:21 <IncitatusOnWater> and now we know the malicious hacker had access
4549 2011-06-19 20:45:23 <jrmithdobbs> sanchaz: the ones without are plain straight up md5 digests
4550 2011-06-19 20:45:24 <jrmithdobbs> rofl
4551 2011-06-19 20:45:26 <ericmock> so, I haven't been able to catch up on the discussion but what about a community run exchange?
4552 2011-06-19 20:45:30 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4553 2011-06-19 20:45:30 * kiba is already changing password ASAP
4554 2011-06-19 20:45:32 <Kireji> theymos: thanks
4555 2011-06-19 20:45:37 <elnato> what if you have like 4 dictionary words + numbers at the end
4556 2011-06-19 20:45:38 <makomk> I was considering developing a secure hardware wallet for bitcoins, but it'd just be like putting a steel vault door on a straw house at this point.
4557 2011-06-19 20:45:41 <ShadeS> you can't change your password
4558 2011-06-19 20:45:42 <elnato> 20+ charactters
4559 2011-06-19 20:45:42 <elnato> ?
4560 2011-06-19 20:45:43 <hmmmm> ericmock: what, like credit unions?
4561 2011-06-19 20:45:43 <ShadeS> the site is down
4562 2011-06-19 20:45:49 <upb> ShadeS: the md5 'break' doesnt really affect using it for passwords
4563 2011-06-19 20:45:50 Carandiru has joined
4564 2011-06-19 20:45:52 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: i would recomend britcoin if your physical location/citizenship allows you to do so
4565 2011-06-19 20:45:54 <enki> but that's a long time ago
4566 2011-06-19 20:45:57 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: code is fully open and auditable.
4567 2011-06-19 20:45:59 Robbie has joined
4568 2011-06-19 20:45:59 spola has joined
4569 2011-06-19 20:45:59 <ShadeS> elnato: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa is more secure than OI@#UHRJn23;4*1!
4570 2011-06-19 20:46:10 <elnato> ic
4571 2011-06-19 20:46:14 <elnato> good
4572 2011-06-19 20:46:21 phearful has joined
4573 2011-06-19 20:46:23 <jtaylor> ShadeS: depends on the password cracking program
4574 2011-06-19 20:46:25 <ericmock> so why don't other exchanges use the britcoin code?
4575 2011-06-19 20:46:30 <ericmock> jrmithdobbs: ^^
4576 2011-06-19 20:46:33 sirk390 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4577 2011-06-19 20:46:34 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: it's fairly new
4578 2011-06-19 20:46:35 <erik__> I'm selling chill pills for .5 btc each
4579 2011-06-19 20:46:42 <jtaylor> I'd try those combinations
4580 2011-06-19 20:46:47 elnato is now known as midget
4581 2011-06-19 20:46:50 thechut has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
4582 2011-06-19 20:46:54 midget is now known as elnato
4583 2011-06-19 20:47:10 <ericmock> but that's what should happen is that there is an exchange code base that is audited by the community
4584 2011-06-19 20:47:10 <sanchaz> jrmithdobbs: r salted ones more difficult to crack?
4585 2011-06-19 20:47:18 <jrmithdobbs> ys
4586 2011-06-19 20:47:19 <jrmithdobbs> yes
4587 2011-06-19 20:47:21 <jrmithdobbs> significantly
4588 2011-06-19 20:47:24 <Kireji> I'm kinda pissed my email address is sitting there in the mtgox accounts dump
4589 2011-06-19 20:47:25 <viggi> Salting prevents the cracker from using rainbow tables
4590 2011-06-19 20:47:41 thechut has joined
4591 2011-06-19 20:47:41 Netto has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4592 2011-06-19 20:47:50 <ketsa> lesson : use throwable addresses
4593 2011-06-19 20:47:51 triplex_ has joined
4594 2011-06-19 20:47:51 backwardation25 has joined
4595 2011-06-19 20:48:07 Netto has joined
4596 2011-06-19 20:48:08 <erik__> "salting prevents the cracker from using rainbow tables." hahaha that is a hilarious statement, as I have no idea what it means
4597 2011-06-19 20:48:11 Teslah has joined
4598 2011-06-19 20:48:13 <spola> Kireji: there's a dump? mtgox has been hacked?
4599 2011-06-19 20:48:13 <Speeder> HOLY SHIT I just got scared
4600 2011-06-19 20:48:13 <Kireji> ketsa: I usually do, not sure what I was thinking giving my email to them
4601 2011-06-19 20:48:17 <ericmock> the Father's Day crash of 2011 ;-)
4602 2011-06-19 20:48:21 <Speeder> I forgot that I used my mtgox password on paypal :D
4603 2011-06-19 20:48:22 lbatalha has joined
4604 2011-06-19 20:48:26 <sanchaz> lbatalha: yo
4605 2011-06-19 20:48:28 <fimp> spola, mtgox.com
4606 2011-06-19 20:48:29 <lbatalha> yo
4607 2011-06-19 20:48:30 <Speeder> (already changed, trying to steal my paypal now is futile)
4608 2011-06-19 20:48:30 <Kireji> spola: it appears so, yes, a a complete dump of their use table is online
4609 2011-06-19 20:48:31 <ketsa> im lucky i did.
4610 2011-06-19 20:48:32 * viggi used a mailnator address
4611 2011-06-19 20:48:33 * upb gets to cracking Speeder pass
4612 2011-06-19 20:48:34 <upb> lol
4613 2011-06-19 20:48:53 <Speeder> upb tell me my pass anyway, so I can see how old is the password file
4614 2011-06-19 20:48:55 ui has joined
4615 2011-06-19 20:48:56 <spola> online?
4616 2011-06-19 20:48:56 <Kireji> spola: plus conflicting reports of a huge theft of bitcoins
4617 2011-06-19 20:48:59 <spola> fuck :'(
4618 2011-06-19 20:49:00 <LightRider> Here dad, my present to you is .5 btc...currently worth .5 cents...
4619 2011-06-19 20:49:00 <Speeder> upb I changed it more or less recently
4620 2011-06-19 20:49:02 <upb> Speeder: you can test it yourself
4621 2011-06-19 20:49:07 <LightRider> happy father's day!
4622 2011-06-19 20:49:08 <Speeder> upb how?
4623 2011-06-19 20:49:08 <upb> Speeder: orspeeder@gmail.com:$1$IsohsBHo$V5JL/cxzXMZwpU39oGC7k.
4624 2011-06-19 20:49:13 ui is now known as _ui
4625 2011-06-19 20:49:13 <sivu> so.. whats the next big trading site now that mtgox is gone
4626 2011-06-19 20:49:15 <Speeder> the other one
4627 2011-06-19 20:49:19 <CorvusCorax> $1$/cgt7bNI$txPy93T22FLBwKF8qB4Nu0
4628 2011-06-19 20:49:23 <eps> tradehill?
4629 2011-06-19 20:49:23 <Speeder> upb I have two accounts
4630 2011-06-19 20:49:26 <darnold> I'm goin' to tradehill imo
4631 2011-06-19 20:49:30 <upb> Speeder: what the user id ?
4632 2011-06-19 20:49:33 Gonzago has joined
4633 2011-06-19 20:49:35 <Anduck> is mtgox down now for real?
4634 2011-06-19 20:49:35 <CorvusCorax> speeder,orspeeder+mtgox@gmail.com,$1$/cgt7bNI$txPy93T22FLBwKF8qB4Nu0
4635 2011-06-19 20:49:44 <upb> aha
4636 2011-06-19 20:49:44 <Speeder> CorvusCorax yes that
4637 2011-06-19 20:49:46 <jrmithdobbs> Anduck: not only down
4638 2011-06-19 20:49:49 <eps> Anduck: for realz yo
4639 2011-06-19 20:49:49 <jrmithdobbs> Anduck: user db leaked
4640 2011-06-19 20:49:52 <sanchaz> im going know where until someone comes up with a decent market
4641 2011-06-19 20:49:53 <sivu> anduck, maybe it will come back but they lost all credibility
4642 2011-06-19 20:49:53 <spola> there is a way to know the url of the dump in private? to check my info? :p
4643 2011-06-19 20:49:54 <Anduck> yeah i heard it's leaked
4644 2011-06-19 20:49:55 <Speeder> thta account changed password recently of sorts
4645 2011-06-19 20:49:58 <jrmithdobbs> Anduck: horrible security confirmed
4646 2011-06-19 20:50:00 <Speeder> I want to know what password is stored there
4647 2011-06-19 20:50:01 <Anduck> yeah
4648 2011-06-19 20:50:02 <Anduck> :D
4649 2011-06-19 20:50:02 <grndzero> how do you know that tradehill isn't built on the same platform and vulerable to the same attack?
4650 2011-06-19 20:50:02 <Anduck> lol
4651 2011-06-19 20:50:04 <upb> Speeder: fastest way, put it into your /etc/shadow and try login :P
4652 2011-06-19 20:50:04 <purrr> funny how tradehill pops up a couple of weeks before mtgox crashes.. baaa baa sheep following the heard
4653 2011-06-19 20:50:16 <Anduck> i kinda guessed this kind of thing will happen to some of these trading sites soon
4654 2011-06-19 20:50:16 <Speeder> I am on windows right now
4655 2011-06-19 20:50:22 <Anduck> since they're usually pretty crap-made
4656 2011-06-19 20:50:22 <Speeder> my linux is misbehaving and hates me
4657 2011-06-19 20:50:36 <eps> this is just growing pains
4658 2011-06-19 20:50:51 exstntlstfrtn_ has joined
4659 2011-06-19 20:50:52 <eps> the amount of money flowing through bitcoin at the moment it was inevtiable
4660 2011-06-19 20:51:02 <eps> it is a shame that they got mtgox though
4661 2011-06-19 20:51:02 <jrmithdobbs> Speeder: openssl passwd -1 -salt <thesalt> <your passwrd>
4662 2011-06-19 20:51:13 <jrmithdobbs> Speeder: try it with the passwords you think it is and find out yourself
4663 2011-06-19 20:51:17 <eps> since they should have realised they were the number 1 target
4664 2011-06-19 20:51:48 <Optimo> mtgox has poor security
4665 2011-06-19 20:51:51 <pettr1> i wonder how easily my pass can be cracked
4666 2011-06-19 20:51:54 <CorvusCorax> had
4667 2011-06-19 20:51:56 <Speeder> I will try with openssl
4668 2011-06-19 20:51:57 <Speeder> thanks
4669 2011-06-19 20:52:17 _ui has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4670 2011-06-19 20:52:23 <kiba> eps: magicaltux did not code fast enough
4671 2011-06-19 20:52:23 joebitcoin has joined
4672 2011-06-19 20:52:29 thechut has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
4673 2011-06-19 20:52:37 <casascius> Received an e-mail acknowledging the compromise
4674 2011-06-19 20:52:40 <picci> mine has been already cracked :D
4675 2011-06-19 20:52:41 <picci> yay
4676 2011-06-19 20:52:42 <kiba> methink that exchanges should offer bounties for security problem
4677 2011-06-19 20:52:48 <picci> ;;seen bitcoiner
4678 2011-06-19 20:52:48 <exstntlstfrtn_> so what is with the rollback? what are the terms of the rollback, if it takes place?
4679 2011-06-19 20:52:51 <eps> kiba: maybe he coded too fast?
4680 2011-06-19 20:52:52 <picci> ;;seen bitraider
4681 2011-06-19 20:52:53 <casascius> Received an e-mail from MtGox acknowledging the compromise
4682 2011-06-19 20:52:56 <picci> ;;seen somecoiner
4683 2011-06-19 20:53:03 <picci> oh, the bot is down, double-yay
4684 2011-06-19 20:53:03 <MagicalTux> casascius: because your email starts with a c'est
4685 2011-06-19 20:53:03 <pettr1> is there cracked passwords already leaked so i can see if mines there?
4686 2011-06-19 20:53:04 <upb> i wonder how far tux has got in his incident response checklist :)
4687 2011-06-19 20:53:06 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4688 2011-06-19 20:53:08 <Speeder> yes I cracked my own password indeed
4689 2011-06-19 20:53:14 <eps> i am sure tux will learn a lot from this
4690 2011-06-19 20:53:17 <kiba> eps: no, mtgox codebase is inheriented from that guy who started it as a hobby and doesn't know much about security
4691 2011-06-19 20:53:22 <CorvusCorax> poor bot had a division by zero when trying to calculate the mt gox exchange rate
4692 2011-06-19 20:53:29 <Speeder> ok my password has been changed 2 weeks ago, it is that password there.
4693 2011-06-19 20:53:30 zxasqw has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4694 2011-06-19 20:53:32 abragin has quit ()
4695 2011-06-19 20:53:37 <Speeder> thus we can conclude that the leak has been at most 2 weeks ago
4696 2011-06-19 20:53:38 <eps> i hope mtgox survives, it will take time to rebuild trust though
4697 2011-06-19 20:53:46 <copumpkin> so how can mtgox prove that he has any assets at this point?
4698 2011-06-19 20:53:47 lolak has joined
4699 2011-06-19 20:53:49 <Speeder> but it was not today, since some people passwords were old
4700 2011-06-19 20:53:55 _ui has joined
4701 2011-06-19 20:54:05 <pettr1> how can i try to crack my pass?
4702 2011-06-19 20:54:07 <jeremias> well, i hope that mtgox dies, and some better exchange takes control
4703 2011-06-19 20:54:08 <pettr1> on windows
4704 2011-06-19 20:54:12 <ius> 600/1610 which were hashed plaintext are trivial to crack. That's nearly 40%, yay for insecure passwords.
4705 2011-06-19 20:54:16 <jeremias> or better, numerous smaller competing exchanges
4706 2011-06-19 20:54:19 <Speeder> pettr1 using openssl
4707 2011-06-19 20:54:32 <casascius> e-mail starts with a c'est? not sure I understood... c'est quoi?
4708 2011-06-19 20:54:38 <ericmock> seriously, we need a community controlled and audited code base for exchanges
4709 2011-06-19 20:54:41 <AntiVigilante> copumpkin: trade system security is separate from dwolla transfer
4710 2011-06-19 20:54:46 <jrmithdobbs> Speeder: we know that it's within 24 hours already from others
4711 2011-06-19 20:54:48 <lorenzoIT> stop cracking passwords with your GPUs and come back to mine ;)
4712 2011-06-19 20:54:53 <sanchaz> lol
4713 2011-06-19 20:55:04 <Speeder> jrmithdobbs 24 hours at most?
4714 2011-06-19 20:55:06 <AntiVigilante> ericmock bitcoin-central is GPL
4715 2011-06-19 20:55:08 <copumpkin> AntiVigilante: I know, but I mean his exchange supposedly has a crapload of bitcoins in it right now. Can he prove it?
4716 2011-06-19 20:55:09 <jrmithdobbs> Speeder: yup.
4717 2011-06-19 20:55:18 <amod> how to crack password?
4718 2011-06-19 20:55:19 <bitcoin-lol> is it true that Mt.gox doesn't have it's customers BTC anymore?
4719 2011-06-19 20:55:26 marc0polo has joined
4720 2011-06-19 20:55:27 <Speeder> jrmithdobbs some guy claimed that his password was old... humm...
4721 2011-06-19 20:55:29 <amod> i wanna crack mine ;)
4722 2011-06-19 20:55:30 <AntiVigilante> copumpkin they didn't crack his wallet
4723 2011-06-19 20:55:34 BitCoinExchequer has left ()
4724 2011-06-19 20:55:39 <copumpkin> AntiVigilante: can he prove that they didn't, is what I'm asking
4725 2011-06-19 20:55:41 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: he's demonstrated nothing proving this
4726 2011-06-19 20:55:42 <ericmock> if anything, I think that was the problem here. The client is great, but the exchanges needed to be built with the same premise
4727 2011-06-19 20:55:45 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4728 2011-06-19 20:55:58 <AntiVigilante> copumpkin: jrmithdobbs SEPARATE SYSTEMS
4729 2011-06-19 20:56:04 * kiba better do something productive
4730 2011-06-19 20:56:07 <copumpkin> AntiVigilante: because he told you so?
4731 2011-06-19 20:56:11 <sturles> bitcoin-lol: I doubt that. In that case the cracker wouldn't have tried this stunt to withdraw BTC.
4732 2011-06-19 20:56:14 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: until he proves it it is safe to assume he is lieing
4733 2011-06-19 20:56:15 <jrmithdobbs> imho
4734 2011-06-19 20:56:20 <AntiVigilante> because of the ARCHITECTURE
4735 2011-06-19 20:56:25 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: until he proves it it is safe to assume he is lieing
4736 2011-06-19 20:56:28 <copumpkin> AntiVigilante: because he told you that's how he architected it?
4737 2011-06-19 20:56:32 Netsniper has joined
4738 2011-06-19 20:56:33 <AntiVigilante> they can;t be the same system
4739 2011-06-19 20:56:39 <AntiVigilante> no simple logic
4740 2011-06-19 20:56:48 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> so is MtGox trading??
4741 2011-06-19 20:56:50 <AntiVigilante> my hard drive != my RAM
4742 2011-06-19 20:56:51 Sloth has left ()
4743 2011-06-19 20:56:56 <copumpkin> logic applied to someone else's behavior isn't very sound
4744 2011-06-19 20:57:01 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: simple logic would say that mtgox would have been audited for csrf and sqli
4745 2011-06-19 20:57:08 <eps> hmmm
4746 2011-06-19 20:57:14 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: so logic is out the window at this point.
4747 2011-06-19 20:57:18 <copumpkin> AntiVigilante: if anyone breaks into my computer, I assume that all the information on it is compromised
4748 2011-06-19 20:57:21 <kiba> this is boring
4749 2011-06-19 20:57:22 <eps> who was that guy that warned about a bitcoin hack recently?
4750 2011-06-19 20:57:22 <ericmock> AntiVigilante: he told us it was a single account that was hacked... and I'm sure he knew better
4751 2011-06-19 20:57:23 <copumpkin> you assume the worst in a break-in
4752 2011-06-19 20:57:29 <eps> serious bugs in bitcoin
4753 2011-06-19 20:57:37 <kiba> cosystem
4754 2011-06-19 20:57:41 <eps> everyone thought he was talking about the client
4755 2011-06-19 20:57:42 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: ya, perfect example of him lieing
4756 2011-06-19 20:57:43 <kiba> ecosystem
4757 2011-06-19 20:57:46 <AntiVigilante> copumpkin yes and his dog was raped as well
4758 2011-06-19 20:57:49 <kiba> http://bitcoinweekly.com/comics/bitcoin-mascots
4759 2011-06-19 20:57:54 <copumpkin> AntiVigilante: I'm serious
4760 2011-06-19 20:57:57 thechut has joined
4761 2011-06-19 20:58:00 <kiba> Bitcoin Mascot account!
4762 2011-06-19 20:58:07 <kiba> err
4763 2011-06-19 20:58:09 <kiba> Comic
4764 2011-06-19 20:58:10 <AntiVigilante> SEPARATE systems
4765 2011-06-19 20:58:14 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: tux has been dismissive and unresponsive to security issue reports
4766 2011-06-19 20:58:15 <copumpkin> AntiVigilante: if he hasn't even told us how the database was compromised, how do you have any idea to what extent his other stuff was?
4767 2011-06-19 20:58:18 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: this isn't people being paranoid
4768 2011-06-19 20:58:26 <jrmithdobbs> AntiVigilante: he needs to PROVE that he is in possession of those coins.
4769 2011-06-19 20:58:33 <AntiVigilante> this isn't about paranoia
4770 2011-06-19 20:58:35 <Optimo> is it possible they jacked accounts that had mtgox funds, consolidated on mtgox side and bought every coin bid on the board
4771 2011-06-19 20:58:41 <AntiVigilante> this is about armchair hand waving
4772 2011-06-19 20:58:47 intlkleinblue has joined
4773 2011-06-19 20:58:47 * copumpkin gives up
4774 2011-06-19 20:58:51 <da2ce7> bitcoin is under sustained and cordinated attack
4775 2011-06-19 20:58:54 gbt has quit ()
4776 2011-06-19 20:58:57 <ius> Speeder: fyi, you have 2 accounts
4777 2011-06-19 20:59:04 <Speeder> ius I know
4778 2011-06-19 20:59:05 <kiba> you guys are boring
4779 2011-06-19 20:59:07 AntiVigilante has left ("There used to be something ridiculous here until I couldn't stand it anymore")
4780 2011-06-19 20:59:09 <upb> if there hasnt been a xxxK BTC move in a few hrs, he doesnt have the coins
4781 2011-06-19 20:59:10 <upb> simple
4782 2011-06-19 20:59:11 <kiba> wait for new information
4783 2011-06-19 20:59:13 <Speeder> ius it took me a while to figure that, and got me pretty desperate when it happene
4784 2011-06-19 20:59:21 doofus2 has left ()
4785 2011-06-19 20:59:22 <sivu> stupid to perform a rollback
4786 2011-06-19 20:59:29 doofus2 has joined
4787 2011-06-19 20:59:31 <purrr> they are drinking heavily deciding what to do ;)
4788 2011-06-19 20:59:40 <viggi> I don't think the rollback matters anymore
4789 2011-06-19 20:59:47 <kunnis> sivu The only problem is it's also stupid not to preform a rollback.
4790 2011-06-19 20:59:50 <viggi> Most people probably lost their trust in Mtgox
4791 2011-06-19 20:59:54 <da2ce7> sivu, it is standard partice on financal markets.
4792 2011-06-19 20:59:58 <intlkleinblue> is there a possiblity that an open source platform for trading bitcoins could be developed instead of MtGox?
4793 2011-06-19 21:00:00 <samlander> who runs tradehill?
4794 2011-06-19 21:00:01 <sivu> just accept you were hacked, pay the involved parties, make an public apology (and because they are in japan maybe a seppuku too) and be done with it
4795 2011-06-19 21:00:09 talso has joined
4796 2011-06-19 21:00:13 <intlkleinblue> MtGox seems to have picked up market share since it was first to delivar
4797 2011-06-19 21:00:14 <Speeder> ius before virwox accepted BTC, I had the idea to use ie... I bought some SLL, and sold to Keefe for MTGUSD, then I misunderstood mtgox crap interface and created a new account, and spent a whole day scared that my money went to limbo and annoying magicaltux
4798 2011-06-19 21:00:17 <copumpkin> sivu: the dude is french though
4799 2011-06-19 21:00:24 <copumpkin> no seppuku
4800 2011-06-19 21:00:25 <eps> guys http://images.4chan.org/v/src/1308516040777.jpg
4801 2011-06-19 21:00:28 <kiba> intlkleinblue: it was the most convenient
4802 2011-06-19 21:00:31 <intlkleinblue> md5 really though? cmon. at least bcrypt that stuff
4803 2011-06-19 21:00:34 <Netsniper> i was using a poor password on mtgox
4804 2011-06-19 21:00:37 <ius> Speeder: ah
4805 2011-06-19 21:00:39 <copumpkin> if I were to commit seppuku, I'd try to strangle someone with my intestines, like that movie
4806 2011-06-19 21:00:39 <topi`> hi sivu, how's it going?
4807 2011-06-19 21:00:47 petrr1 has joined
4808 2011-06-19 21:00:52 <OVerLoRDI> eps 404
4809 2011-06-19 21:01:02 <sivu> topi, it's going: to bed
4810 2011-06-19 21:01:07 <intlkleinblue> imgur pl0x eps
4811 2011-06-19 21:01:14 <ericmock> yea, forget about rollback... mtgox should just liquidate.
4812 2011-06-19 21:01:22 [unspecified] has joined
4813 2011-06-19 21:01:29 <LightRider> so can you reverse engineer the password with the given information?
4814 2011-06-19 21:01:43 <viggi> Yes you can crack the password
4815 2011-06-19 21:01:44 <ericmock> he made his money on tx fees, etc....
4816 2011-06-19 21:01:44 bit_monger has joined
4817 2011-06-19 21:01:50 <viggi> if it is weak enough
4818 2011-06-19 21:01:57 <[unspecified]> Passwords being posted on 4chan as we speak
4819 2011-06-19 21:01:57 <Herodes> or dictionary based.
4820 2011-06-19 21:02:02 <ius> LightRider: No but you can try and easily see if it's correct ;)
4821 2011-06-19 21:02:07 <hmmmm> so wait
4822 2011-06-19 21:02:07 Guest51100 has joined
4823 2011-06-19 21:02:09 <hmmmm> i don't get it
4824 2011-06-19 21:02:11 <viggi> Herodes: That's a subset of weak ;p
4825 2011-06-19 21:02:15 <hmmmm> how can mtgox do a rollback?
4826 2011-06-19 21:02:15 <ketsa> im testing a gpu md5 cracker lets see what it finds.
4827 2011-06-19 21:02:17 <Herodes> correct
4828 2011-06-19 21:02:19 <LightRider> so there is computation involved
4829 2011-06-19 21:02:20 <Nyken> but.. He still used salt, wouldnt it be more difficult using dic's then?
4830 2011-06-19 21:02:25 <Speeder> ius now I was using one account for personal use and one to test someone else bot (ie: I handed my account to a guy test the bot on it)
4831 2011-06-19 21:02:33 <ius> One has a poor pw at least
4832 2011-06-19 21:02:43 <TommyToad> i have
4833 2011-06-19 21:02:46 <Herodes> I wonder if Falkvinge is nervous now.
4834 2011-06-19 21:02:46 MenderV has joined
4835 2011-06-19 21:02:48 <Herodes> I would be.
4836 2011-06-19 21:02:50 <TommyToad> but it's unique at least :D
4837 2011-06-19 21:02:52 <upb> there are hundreds of poor pws
4838 2011-06-19 21:02:53 <halcyon10> actually if it turns out, that the BTCs from the big transaction are stolen and not under control of mtgox anymore shouldn't the community refuse accepting payments with these coins in the future?
4839 2011-06-19 21:03:00 <upb> guesses: 370 time: 0:00:44:47 1% (1) c/s: 4818 trying: Daedsknup
4840 2011-06-19 21:03:06 pettr1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4841 2011-06-19 21:03:08 <viggi> theres >400 weak passwords
4842 2011-06-19 21:03:11 <Herodes> halcyon10: then something should be done obviously.
4843 2011-06-19 21:03:12 <ThomasV> [unspecified]: channel ?
4844 2011-06-19 21:03:14 <viggi> with a very basic dictionary attack
4845 2011-06-19 21:03:16 <CorvusCorax> can you even refuse payments?
4846 2011-06-19 21:03:16 <ius> upb: What's that, john?
4847 2011-06-19 21:03:18 Mender has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4848 2011-06-19 21:03:25 <upb> yeah :))
4849 2011-06-19 21:03:27 <KuDeTa> viggi
4850 2011-06-19 21:03:30 <KuDeTa> i concur
4851 2011-06-19 21:03:31 <ius> Use oclHashcat ;)
4852 2011-06-19 21:03:35 <[unspecified]> ThomasV /g/
4853 2011-06-19 21:03:37 petrr1 has quit (Client Quit)
4854 2011-06-19 21:03:37 Guest51100 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4855 2011-06-19 21:03:38 <Nyken> viggi, but, what about the salt then? wouldnt that mess with dictionary attack?
4856 2011-06-19 21:03:38 <briareus> [16:01] < Snuggles> http://pastebin.com/XkzsbtuM plain md5 hashes from the db, crack, grep & enter accounts
4857 2011-06-19 21:03:39 <kiba> maybe mtgox should reform a dictonary attack and cracking attempt at the database every week
4858 2011-06-19 21:03:40 <upb> nah i just wanted to quickly try :P
4859 2011-06-19 21:03:44 <viggi> Nyken: No
4860 2011-06-19 21:03:46 <kiba> and inform users with cracked password
4861 2011-06-19 21:03:53 <viggi> Nyken: Salt only messes with rainbow tables
4862 2011-06-19 21:04:02 <Storagewars> Do you need a KVM switch if you are using say 10-15 PC's to mine?
4863 2011-06-19 21:04:06 <OVerLoRDI> email from mtgox
4864 2011-06-19 21:04:17 <[unspecified]> Can't believe MT Gox used MD5, what a schmuck
4865 2011-06-19 21:04:30 <KuDeTa> only for about 1700
4866 2011-06-19 21:04:30 <ius> viggi: And in this case, any attack, since it's unix crypt (which iirc has N rounds of md5)
4867 2011-06-19 21:04:32 <Nyken> Storagewars, no, you need VNC
4868 2011-06-19 21:04:32 darin has quit (Disconnected by services)
4869 2011-06-19 21:04:37 <KuDeTa> 500 of which we can crack
4870 2011-06-19 21:04:39 <KuDeTa> (i've done some
4871 2011-06-19 21:04:41 <KuDeTa> they work
4872 2011-06-19 21:04:47 <KuDeTa> i checked someones paypal and shut it down for him
4873 2011-06-19 21:04:57 <KuDeTa> etc etc
4874 2011-06-19 21:04:57 pettr1 has joined
4875 2011-06-19 21:04:58 <samlander> KuDeTa: jesus christ
4876 2011-06-19 21:05:03 hamush1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4877 2011-06-19 21:05:05 [A]stounding is now known as Astounding
4878 2011-06-19 21:05:08 <KuDeTa> yes i know
4879 2011-06-19 21:05:11 <jogis> KuDeTa: dude, u b fearless :]
4880 2011-06-19 21:05:16 <OVerLoRDI> all passwords are apparently disabled for when the site comes back online, you'll have to change it to access your account
4881 2011-06-19 21:05:22 <OVerLoRDI> probably an email verification type setup
4882 2011-06-19 21:05:24 <ketsa> almost 200ppl have less than 8char passwd :p
4883 2011-06-19 21:05:28 <Astounding> I'm hearing reports that the WALLETS have been compromised!?!
4884 2011-06-19 21:05:29 BabyGeek has quit (Quit: Quitte)
4885 2011-06-19 21:05:36 <[unspecified]> That doesn't help those with weak passwords on other sites!
4886 2011-06-19 21:05:37 <KuDeTa> impossible Astounding
4887 2011-06-19 21:05:43 <ius> KuDeTa: I'd almost write a PayPal bot for use over tor, to automagically lock accounts. Robin Hood style ;)
4888 2011-06-19 21:05:44 <briareus> https://uloadr.com/u/CF.txt
4889 2011-06-19 21:05:47 <briareus> ^^
4890 2011-06-19 21:05:51 <ketsa> 190 cracked in 3 minutes with that gpu cracker.
4891 2011-06-19 21:05:52 <Nyken> viggi, mind to explain? =) because for me, a dictonary is a lot of words, and the hash is often a weird phrase or something, what kind of dictionary got that?
4892 2011-06-19 21:05:53 <KuDeTa> ius if you can
4893 2011-06-19 21:06:05 <KuDeTa> someone just needs to email them all
4894 2011-06-19 21:06:14 <KuDeTa> and tell them
4895 2011-06-19 21:06:21 <amod> how to crack my pw?
4896 2011-06-19 21:06:43 <amod> :P
4897 2011-06-19 21:06:48 <viggi> Nyken: The dictionary is, in this case, a list of common passwords, which then are hashed and checked against the leaked hash
4898 2011-06-19 21:06:50 jogis has quit (Quit: ze germans)
4899 2011-06-19 21:06:53 <ius> KuDeTa: mtgox should have, and I don't think they did?
4900 2011-06-19 21:06:55 <viggi> slightly simplified
4901 2011-06-19 21:06:58 Guest8405 has joined
4902 2011-06-19 21:07:04 <ius> They should've when they discovered the first csrf or sqli
4903 2011-06-19 21:07:08 <Nyken> viggi, but the hash includes a salt ?
4904 2011-06-19 21:07:11 Guest8405 is now known as gribble
4905 2011-06-19 21:07:12 <KuDeTa> ius: i really hope so,
4906 2011-06-19 21:07:13 <Nyken> from the db
4907 2011-06-19 21:07:25 <viggi> The salt is plaintext
4908 2011-06-19 21:07:27 <spq> who sends mail from root@w001.mo.us.xta.net? should one use a non root user account for daily work? :)
4909 2011-06-19 21:07:31 <[unspecified]> Nyken - the salt in in the leaked DB
4910 2011-06-19 21:07:40 gribble has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4911 2011-06-19 21:07:45 <OVerLoRDI> well after this coins won't be worth much, I'm more worried about my USD in mtgox. Although its in a business account somewhere so recovering that will likely not an issue, and I doubt it moved
4912 2011-06-19 21:07:48 <viggi> $1$ZFto7JVU$/dyDV.q9FIttNmQPOnBn21
4913 2011-06-19 21:07:54 <viggi> $1$ZFto7JVU is the salt
4914 2011-06-19 21:07:56 <sanchaz> KuDeTa: if everyone was like u the world would be a better place
4915 2011-06-19 21:07:58 <viggi> and so on
4916 2011-06-19 21:08:24 <[unspecified]> viggi ZFto7JVU is the salt, no?
4917 2011-06-19 21:08:29 <Nyken> [unspecified], i see
4918 2011-06-19 21:08:30 Herodes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4919 2011-06-19 21:08:31 <sturles> Actually ZFto7JVU is the salt, and $1$ denotes a salted MD5 password hash.
4920 2011-06-19 21:08:37 lumos has joined
4921 2011-06-19 21:08:39 <briareus> https://britcoin.co.uk/?page=
4922 2011-06-19 21:08:41 hugolp has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4923 2011-06-19 21:08:48 <viggi> well yeah
4924 2011-06-19 21:08:56 spola has quit (Quit: Page closed)
4925 2011-06-19 21:08:59 <CorvusCorax> ahrgh. guys, check the amount of people using "123456" as a password *facepalms*
4926 2011-06-19 21:09:17 ghostwriter has left ("Leaving channel")
4927 2011-06-19 21:09:18 <viggi> check the amount of people using "12345" as a password
4928 2011-06-19 21:09:19 * ericmock can hear the 'professionals' snickering "amateurs" now...
4929 2011-06-19 21:09:21 <viggi> ;p
4930 2011-06-19 21:09:35 GuitarJJ has joined
4931 2011-06-19 21:09:42 redshark1802 has quit (Quit: http://irc2go.com/)
4932 2011-06-19 21:09:48 <CorvusCorax> I think my john doesnt test those short ones
4933 2011-06-19 21:09:52 <copumpkin> ericmock: I am a professional!
4934 2011-06-19 21:09:55 * copumpkin snickers
4935 2011-06-19 21:09:56 <phearful> im sure there is a power law to how many people on a given website use the most common passwords
4936 2011-06-19 21:09:59 Fairuser has joined
4937 2011-06-19 21:09:59 <Astounding> My money going if stolen I do the registered or only an email will loose the infro if I be compromise?
4938 2011-06-19 21:10:19 <upb> lol
4939 2011-06-19 21:10:20 <upb> hehehehehehe (hehehe\' and 1=1-- )
4940 2011-06-19 21:10:20 <upb> hehehehehehe (hehehe../../../../../../../../)
4941 2011-06-19 21:10:30 <eps> http://thefunnyinbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/thefunnyinbox-everyone-calm-the-fuck-down.jpg
4942 2011-06-19 21:10:31 <upb> someone tried sqlinjecting the username
4943 2011-06-19 21:10:33 <ericmock> I think the problem is partly that this community does not understand how to /really/ idiot proof a system
4944 2011-06-19 21:10:34 <[unspecified]> What constitutes a strong /w for salted MD5?
4945 2011-06-19 21:10:38 johnsa has joined
4946 2011-06-19 21:10:40 GuitarJJ has quit (Client Quit)
4947 2011-06-19 21:10:42 erle- has joined
4948 2011-06-19 21:10:45 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
4949 2011-06-19 21:10:51 <eps> [unspecified]: don't use md5
4950 2011-06-19 21:10:58 <yellowhat> eps: RLwP
4951 2011-06-19 21:11:02 <Astounding> Sorry typo, I meant: Can my info be stolen right now with only the leaked password, or am I safe?
4952 2011-06-19 21:11:17 <phearful> safe
4953 2011-06-19 21:11:19 <phearful> lolz
4954 2011-06-19 21:11:20 <CorvusCorax> Astounding, what info
4955 2011-06-19 21:11:21 S7_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4956 2011-06-19 21:11:22 <johnsa> Change all your passwords.
4957 2011-06-19 21:11:29 <Astounding> ty john
4958 2011-06-19 21:11:31 <Diablo-D3> Astounding: yes
4959 2011-06-19 21:11:32 <[unspecified]> eps - yes, agreed, bcrypt, but in this case it's MD5, so what passwords are likely "safe"
4960 2011-06-19 21:11:33 <CorvusCorax> username , password, email and userID is obviously "in the wild"
4961 2011-06-19 21:11:47 <Astounding> Corvus: So they can steal my coin?
4962 2011-06-19 21:11:51 <johnsa> If you reused a password anywhere change it immediately.
4963 2011-06-19 21:11:55 <johnsa> Just to be on the safe side
4964 2011-06-19 21:11:55 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
4965 2011-06-19 21:12:10 <Astounding> good idea john ty
4966 2011-06-19 21:12:14 <Astounding> will do
4967 2011-06-19 21:12:23 <alystair> so how does it work
4968 2011-06-19 21:12:23 <TheSeven> Astounding: if your password was too simple they can steal whatever is on mt. gox or anywhere else where you used the same password
4969 2011-06-19 21:12:27 <CorvusCorax> "safe": 15 characters ore more, with both numbers, letters in both casing and special characters, but no dictionary words used and no repetitions
4970 2011-06-19 21:12:34 <Optimo> at least google has a moticum of security with telling you your password sucks
4971 2011-06-19 21:12:37 karnac has joined
4972 2011-06-19 21:13:00 <CorvusCorax> [unspecified], mt gox is currently down, so no trading takes place afaik, but if u used thesame pwd elsewhere
4973 2011-06-19 21:13:02 <alystair> how do I know if my password is compromisable
4974 2011-06-19 21:13:07 <upb> lol http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19543.20
4975 2011-06-19 21:13:12 <upb> trying to hide the truth ?
4976 2011-06-19 21:13:23 <[unspecified]> CorvusCorax, what about all the above, but only 8chars (plus 8char salt)
4977 2011-06-19 21:13:25 <alystair> "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."
4978 2011-06-19 21:13:30 <upb> exactly
4979 2011-06-19 21:13:33 <KuDeTa> alystair, only the 2000 with unsalted md5 are crackable
4980 2011-06-19 21:13:38 <johnsa> [unspecified] change your passwords.
4981 2011-06-19 21:13:39 <KuDeTa> you can identify by no $ at the begining
4982 2011-06-19 21:13:48 kiba has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4983 2011-06-19 21:13:54 <CorvusCorax> [unspecified], I think 8 chars can be cracked within a few minutes by the same way Bitcoin "bruteforces" their blocks
4984 2011-06-19 21:14:00 <KuDeTa> the rest can be cracked but will take time
4985 2011-06-19 21:14:01 <johnsa> MD5 is not safe, it doesn't matter what your password is there are documented attacks on the hashing mechanism itself.
4986 2011-06-19 21:14:02 <[unspecified]> Johnsa - different password on every site, just curious
4987 2011-06-19 21:14:12 <copumpkin> CorvusCorax: depends how many choices you have in your alphabet
4988 2011-06-19 21:14:13 sender555 has joined
4989 2011-06-19 21:14:22 <johnsa> It's like having the best padlock but attaching it to a paper safe.
4990 2011-06-19 21:14:22 <CorvusCorax> copumpkin, true
4991 2011-06-19 21:14:28 <briareus> [16:13] * BTCTrader is making tshirts "I witnessed the great MTGOX hack and all I got was a lousy tshirt"
4992 2011-06-19 21:14:39 exstntlstfrtn_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4993 2011-06-19 21:14:40 <johnsa> You can just rip to paper to get in....
4994 2011-06-19 21:14:59 <erek> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19619.0
4995 2011-06-19 21:15:04 notallhere has joined
4996 2011-06-19 21:15:09 md2k7 has joined
4997 2011-06-19 21:15:12 <upb> johnsa: wow so there is a first preimage attack on md5 ?!
4998 2011-06-19 21:15:19 <upb> johnsa: citation please
4999 2011-06-19 21:15:38 <CorvusCorax> ahrgh. i set my john up to not even try passwd under 6 chars. no wonder I don#t see the really stupid ones
5000 2011-06-19 21:16:05 <thechut> CorvusCorax: ive only been doing the stupid ones. pretty funny
5001 2011-06-19 21:16:14 <briareus> [16:15] < sirus> fyi, mtgox hacker had db access for at least 3 days: https://twitter.com/#!/sirus/status/82554989972688896
5002 2011-06-19 21:16:20 <thechut> favorite password cracked so far: assrape
5003 2011-06-19 21:16:47 <[unspecified]> CorvusCorax - why "no repetition" in secure passwords?
5004 2011-06-19 21:17:08 DavidSJ has quit (Quit: DavidSJ)
5005 2011-06-19 21:17:14 Tim-7967 has joined
5006 2011-06-19 21:17:15 Tim-7967 has quit (Changing host)
5007 2011-06-19 21:17:15 Tim-7967 has joined
5008 2011-06-19 21:17:26 <jrmithdobbs> briareus: rofl
5009 2011-06-19 21:17:33 <CorvusCorax> [unspecified], because some crackers who start with "simple" passwords try random repeatings of those as well
5010 2011-06-19 21:17:47 <upb> briareus: wow
5011 2011-06-19 21:17:56 <CorvusCorax> so "irock" and "irockirockirock" is cracked pretty much the same fast
5012 2011-06-19 21:18:03 <CorvusCorax> (is "the same fast corretc grammar?"
5013 2011-06-19 21:18:48 takezo420 has joined
5014 2011-06-19 21:18:56 <jrmithdobbs> the same speed
5015 2011-06-19 21:19:00 joebitcoin has quit (Quit: Page closed)
5016 2011-06-19 21:19:01 <Speeder> other exchanges are not really crashing
5017 2011-06-19 21:19:08 <[unspecified]> Got you, so repetition of a character within a password okay, along wit hother random garbage, just not repetition of the whole (simple) phrase
5018 2011-06-19 21:19:09 <jrmithdobbs> ya i'm surprised
5019 2011-06-19 21:19:25 <B0g4r7> Seems to me like all the passwords are at risk, salted or no.
5020 2011-06-19 21:19:25 marc0polo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5021 2011-06-19 21:19:28 <ius> upb: not first preimage, just collission
5022 2011-06-19 21:19:28 <jrmithdobbs> Speeder: i wonder how much of that is due to MagicalTux misrepresenting the compromise in his public statement
5023 2011-06-19 21:19:34 <jrmithdobbs> B0g4r7: yes
5024 2011-06-19 21:19:34 <B0g4r7> WhitePixel was designed to crack this very thing.
5025 2011-06-19 21:19:35 <upb> ius: exactly
5026 2011-06-19 21:19:42 <jrmithdobbs> B0g4r7: DON'T REUSE PASSWORDS
5027 2011-06-19 21:19:52 <upb> so how does this weaken md5 for password hashing case
5028 2011-06-19 21:19:52 AStove has quit ()
5029 2011-06-19 21:19:53 <[unspecified]> CorvusCorax - "the same speed"
5030 2011-06-19 21:20:03 gavinandresen has joined
5031 2011-06-19 21:20:11 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
5032 2011-06-19 21:20:13 <CorvusCorax> thnx
5033 2011-06-19 21:20:33 <jarly> mtgox users who have a gmail account and password hacked: http://pastebin.com/9DeWLNdN
5034 2011-06-19 21:21:12 <CorvusCorax> did you check those on gmail yet?
5035 2011-06-19 21:21:16 <ius> jarly: Please don't post plaintexts /w email :|
5036 2011-06-19 21:21:17 <jarly> naw
5037 2011-06-19 21:21:24 <notallhere> It blows my mind that we still have sites getting hit with sql injection attacks in 2011, it's so damn simple to prevent if you use prepared statements
5038 2011-06-19 21:21:25 <jarly> just a p.o.c
5039 2011-06-19 21:21:44 cenuij has joined
5040 2011-06-19 21:21:45 cenuij has quit (Changing host)
5041 2011-06-19 21:21:45 cenuij has joined
5042 2011-06-19 21:21:47 <copumpkin> notallhere: lack of education :/
5043 2011-06-19 21:21:47 <amod> jarly: what is that link for?
5044 2011-06-19 21:21:59 <CorvusCorax> mysqlescapestring() is your friend
5045 2011-06-19 21:22:07 <jrmithdobbs> you mean bind vars
5046 2011-06-19 21:22:09 <jrmithdobbs> of course
5047 2011-06-19 21:22:14 <notallhere> i wouldnt trust it corvus
5048 2011-06-19 21:22:16 TD has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5049 2011-06-19 21:22:17 Hal____ has joined
5050 2011-06-19 21:22:17 <ius> Thats what he meant ;) ;) ;)
5051 2011-06-19 21:22:23 TD has joined
5052 2011-06-19 21:22:27 <[unspecified]> Or use Rails!
5053 2011-06-19 21:22:33 <jarly> or django
5054 2011-06-19 21:22:36 <jarly> or even bottle.py
5055 2011-06-19 21:22:37 <jrmithdobbs> people thinking mysqlescapestring() is adequate is what leads to this type of crap
5056 2011-06-19 21:22:42 <Astounding> ty for the link jarly
5057 2011-06-19 21:22:45 <Astounding> do you have any more?
5058 2011-06-19 21:22:45 <notallhere> https://www.owasp.org/index.php/SQL_Injection_Prevention_Cheat_Sheet
5059 2011-06-19 21:22:50 <Astounding> stop bashing him people
5060 2011-06-19 21:22:59 <ketsa> only easy passwords make the list :p great demo.
5061 2011-06-19 21:23:01 <upb> CorvusCorax: escape* is your enemy
5062 2011-06-19 21:23:11 <copumpkin> who's cuddlefish in here?
5063 2011-06-19 21:23:12 <jarly> astounding: someone else brute forced them
5064 2011-06-19 21:23:19 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
5065 2011-06-19 21:23:21 <CorvusCorax> dpb, why?
5066 2011-06-19 21:23:25 <CorvusCorax> upb, why?
5067 2011-06-19 21:23:27 GarrettB has joined
5068 2011-06-19 21:23:29 GarrettB has quit (Changing host)
5069 2011-06-19 21:23:29 GarrettB has joined
5070 2011-06-19 21:23:40 md2k7 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
5071 2011-06-19 21:23:40 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5072 2011-06-19 21:23:49 <upb> because why would you use a method where you can forget one parameter
5073 2011-06-19 21:23:50 md2k7 has joined
5074 2011-06-19 21:23:54 <amod> jarly: what is the link for?
5075 2011-06-19 21:23:55 <upb> when you could use bind variables
5076 2011-06-19 21:24:06 <GarrettB> so gribble is broken?
5077 2011-06-19 21:24:10 <jarly> amod: i was just checking if there were people hacked with gmail accounts, and there were :/
5078 2011-06-19 21:24:13 <CorvusCorax> yes, gribble is down
5079 2011-06-19 21:24:15 <ius> copumpkin: cuddlefish, but seems he's off
5080 2011-06-19 21:24:17 <jarly> i shouldn't have used plaintext though
5081 2011-06-19 21:24:18 <notallhere> because someone might find some new magic way of breaking out of the escape, its happened before
5082 2011-06-19 21:24:20 <ius> ;;seen cuddlefish
5083 2011-06-19 21:24:21 <copumpkin> I tracked him down
5084 2011-06-19 21:24:27 anu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5085 2011-06-19 21:24:31 <droud> I just tend to use CakePHP to avoid SQL injection, it's got a pretty solid ORM layer.
5086 2011-06-19 21:24:35 <lyspooner> sorry for repeat, how do i try to crack my own hashed password?
5087 2011-06-19 21:24:40 <notallhere> much better to tell the db this is my query and this is my data, the data will simply never be parsed as sql logic with a prepared statement, problem solved
5088 2011-06-19 21:24:52 <droud> lyspooner: I doubt people are going to help you on that one.
5089 2011-06-19 21:24:53 <jarly> lyspooner: if it starts with $, then you can't right now
5090 2011-06-19 21:25:04 <Speeder> jarly my password is not there.
5091 2011-06-19 21:25:06 <Speeder> interesting
5092 2011-06-19 21:25:14 <jarly> speeder: then yours hasn't been cracked
5093 2011-06-19 21:25:23 <ketsa> yet
5094 2011-06-19 21:25:27 <jarly> ^
5095 2011-06-19 21:25:28 <[unspecified]> Mt Gox just email effected users. FINALLY!
5096 2011-06-19 21:25:32 <sturles> lyspooner: Get John the Ripper or something. apt-get install john. Read the readme.
5097 2011-06-19 21:25:38 <upb> notallhere: agreed :)
5098 2011-06-19 21:25:44 lumos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
5099 2011-06-19 21:25:48 <briareus> [unspecified]: an hour ago almost
5100 2011-06-19 21:25:49 <Speeder> jarly there are a list of all cracked ones?
5101 2011-06-19 21:25:51 <briareus> you just got yours
5102 2011-06-19 21:25:52 <sanchaz> jarly: but thats just gmail users who used the same password at mtgox correct?
5103 2011-06-19 21:25:52 <alystair> can someone crack mine? :D
5104 2011-06-19 21:25:54 eao has joined
5105 2011-06-19 21:25:57 * alystair doesn't have a gpu atm
5106 2011-06-19 21:26:01 <briareus> Speeder: there are a few yes
5107 2011-06-19 21:26:18 <Speeder> can someone link to me a master list of passwords?
5108 2011-06-19 21:26:19 <humana> so what does the email say?
5109 2011-06-19 21:26:20 <[unspecified]> briareus. Nope. 5 minutes for me.
5110 2011-06-19 21:26:23 <droud> If you used a real password instead of some lame combination of dictionary words and numbers, it won't crack.
5111 2011-06-19 21:26:26 <CorvusCorax> hey I found some funny usernames in the db - looks like earlier intrusion attempts
5112 2011-06-19 21:26:31 <jarly> speeder:, yeah, i'll pm you
5113 2011-06-19 21:26:36 <CorvusCorax> look for "hehe/../../../../.." and the like
5114 2011-06-19 21:26:38 <lyspooner> jarly and if it doesn't start with $
5115 2011-06-19 21:26:44 <gmaxwell> droud: a rather long real password, however.. 10 characters to be reasonable secure.
5116 2011-06-19 21:26:56 <[unspecified]> humana - Our database has been compromised, including your email. We are working on a quick resolution and to begin with, your password has been disabled as a security measure
5117 2011-06-19 21:27:00 err0r^ has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
5118 2011-06-19 21:27:08 <droud> gmaxwell: Sure, but hash tables aren't even going to have 8 character alphanumerics with capitalization.
5119 2011-06-19 21:27:09 <gmaxwell> droud: stupid md5 crackers can do 35 billion attempts per second on 4x 5970.
5120 2011-06-19 21:27:13 Herodes has joined
5121 2011-06-19 21:27:18 <copumpkin> CorvusCorax: if that had worked as an intrusion attempt, I'd have had to smack MagicalTux
5122 2011-06-19 21:27:22 <gmaxwell> droud: rainbow tables are already useless for this, it's salted.
5123 2011-06-19 21:27:26 wiedi has joined
5124 2011-06-19 21:27:28 <copumpkin> gmaxwell: not all of them
5125 2011-06-19 21:27:33 <alystair> I semi-salt my passwords so I just want to know what it looks like
5126 2011-06-19 21:27:35 <copumpkin> oddly enough
5127 2011-06-19 21:27:35 zamgo has joined
5128 2011-06-19 21:27:37 <droud> gmaxwell: 35B/sec doesn't touch a 64b or 128b hash.
5129 2011-06-19 21:27:39 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: most of them though.. a few hundreds aren't.
5130 2011-06-19 21:27:45 <copumpkin> yeah
5131 2011-06-19 21:28:00 <gmaxwell> droud: ... it smokes out a e.g. 8 character password just fine.
5132 2011-06-19 21:28:28 doofus2 has left ()
5133 2011-06-19 21:28:29 test345 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
5134 2011-06-19 21:28:38 <upb> 20 users with '12345' :)
5135 2011-06-19 21:28:38 <gmaxwell> 72^8/35000000000=20634 seconds.
5136 2011-06-19 21:28:54 <CorvusCorax> upb another 20 with 123456
5137 2011-06-19 21:28:55 <gmaxwell> upb: yea.. fuckyou is common too.
5138 2011-06-19 21:28:57 kv39_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5139 2011-06-19 21:28:59 <upb> haha
5140 2011-06-19 21:29:00 <CorvusCorax> and foobar
5141 2011-06-19 21:29:02 <zamgo> and 'shit'
5142 2011-06-19 21:29:02 <GarrettB> upb: lol, how do you find that?
5143 2011-06-19 21:29:08 <zamgo> and sex
5144 2011-06-19 21:29:11 <sturles> A site where a friend used to work had their pasword hashes rot13'd in a clever plot to fool crackers. If a cracker got the hashed passwords, he would probably spend a lot of CPU time and gain absolutely nothing. :-=
5145 2011-06-19 21:29:13 <upb> left john running in screen
5146 2011-06-19 21:29:15 <sturles> :-)
5147 2011-06-19 21:29:17 <CorvusCorax> and "bitcoin" "money" ...
5148 2011-06-19 21:29:31 <zamgo> be even more clever... use rot15
5149 2011-06-19 21:29:40 <zamgo> or rot{random}
5150 2011-06-19 21:29:56 <ius> Yeah, or store the password for user X in row X-1, they'll never figute that one out ;) ;)
5151 2011-06-19 21:30:07 FarmerGreene_ has joined
5152 2011-06-19 21:30:14 mounte has joined
5153 2011-06-19 21:30:19 <CorvusCorax> also EXTREMLY popular is "<insertdictionarywordhere>1"
5154 2011-06-19 21:30:25 <upb> or store the password at a separate service that can only change and verify passwords ?:P
5155 2011-06-19 21:30:34 <droud> upb: That's called OAuth.
5156 2011-06-19 21:30:36 <upb> oh no, that is not the mysql way
5157 2011-06-19 21:30:39 <MrSam> hmm
5158 2011-06-19 21:30:43 <MrSam> what am i doing wrong
5159 2011-06-19 21:30:48 <MrSam> i use the testnet-box
5160 2011-06-19 21:30:51 <MrSam> and after some time
5161 2011-06-19 21:30:56 <upb> droud: yes oauth implements a similar scheme
5162 2011-06-19 21:30:58 <MrSam> datadir-1 starts getting connections
5163 2011-06-19 21:31:04 <MrSam> and downloading testnet blocks
5164 2011-06-19 21:31:15 FarmerGreene_ is now known as FarmerGreene
5165 2011-06-19 21:31:19 <mounte> Hi, I have not followed the whole conversation I wonder if the leaked password-hashes are salted with static or variable salts? Does anyone know?
5166 2011-06-19 21:31:25 <GarrettB> someone wanna try and break mine :P
5167 2011-06-19 21:31:31 Alex_- has left ()
5168 2011-06-19 21:31:31 <MrSam> both configs have noirc=1
5169 2011-06-19 21:31:31 <MrSam> testnet=1
5170 2011-06-19 21:31:32 <kunnis> upb Complexity is the enemy of security. You want something so simple an idiot could write it, then you get someone smart to do it.
5171 2011-06-19 21:31:35 <droud> gmaxwell: Yeah, I came up with two hours to cycle through all 64^8 passwords. Thankfully I'm at 12-20 characters.
5172 2011-06-19 21:31:47 <kunnis> mounte Some users had no salt, some had a variable salt
5173 2011-06-19 21:31:48 <gmaxwell> CorvusCorax: more than 20 with 123456... :(
5174 2011-06-19 21:31:50 <CorvusCorax> # john -show passwd.dat |grep 123456 |wc
5175 2011-06-19 21:31:50 <CorvusCorax> 68 69 1162
5176 2011-06-19 21:31:52 <[unspecified]> mounte - variable, but published
5177 2011-06-19 21:31:55 TommyToad has quit ()
5178 2011-06-19 21:32:09 johnsa has left ()
5179 2011-06-19 21:32:12 <mounte> hmm, so how do you interpret the salt?
5180 2011-06-19 21:32:16 * diki hopes tux didn't use addslashes
5181 2011-06-19 21:32:33 <mounte> for isntance: $1$THMocqc7$ylEeJdOtKdfanesU2wSi41
5182 2011-06-19 21:32:34 <diki> assuming he used pgp
5183 2011-06-19 21:32:40 <diki> *pHp
5184 2011-06-19 21:32:58 XX01XX has joined
5185 2011-06-19 21:33:05 <[unspecified]> mounte - between second and third $ eg. THMocqc7
5186 2011-06-19 21:33:27 <samlander> MagicalTux: would say today's events give reason to implement gpg and otp wouldnt you say?
5187 2011-06-19 21:33:29 <gavinandresen> MrSam: if your firewall port 18332 is open, and you've run a 'normal' testnet node before, then other testnet nodes may try to connect because you are in their addr.dat.
5188 2011-06-19 21:33:30 <mounte> ahhh, thanks ;) missed that dollar sign completely earlier
5189 2011-06-19 21:33:43 <samlander> MagicalTux: most people are used to it by now from -otc anyway
5190 2011-06-19 21:33:59 <MagicalTux> samlander: -otc got 60k accts ?
5191 2011-06-19 21:34:12 <gavinandresen> MrSam: close port 18332, or run with -port=...something other than 18332...
5192 2011-06-19 21:34:23 zamgo has left ()
5193 2011-06-19 21:34:35 <samlander> MagicalTux: no, but that doesnt change the fact that it is a good idea
5194 2011-06-19 21:35:04 <samlander> MagicalTux: the other thing too... and please take this with all respect because i give mad props to you.
5195 2011-06-19 21:35:12 <diki> tux is the site php?
5196 2011-06-19 21:35:14 <ius> samlander: Not helping much if the server is compromised well, your funds are still out there somewhere
5197 2011-06-19 21:35:15 <samlander> MagicalTux: why in HELL was a sql injection attack even possible?!?!
5198 2011-06-19 21:35:25 monad has joined
5199 2011-06-19 21:35:27 <MrSam> gavinandresen: ah, thx
5200 2011-06-19 21:35:28 <MagicalTux> samlander: there was no SQL injection
5201 2011-06-19 21:35:33 <samlander> good
5202 2011-06-19 21:35:39 <samlander> im happy to hear that
5203 2011-06-19 21:35:39 <gmaxwell> MagicalTux: how did they get the passwords?
5204 2011-06-19 21:35:42 <[unspecified]> IF account numbers are in order, then of the total 61,000 accounts, Mt Gox got half of those in the last three weeks!!!!!
5205 2011-06-19 21:35:44 <upb> diki: seems he did
5206 2011-06-19 21:35:45 <MrSam> gavinandresen: that will be it, i tought in-a-box was using other ports
5207 2011-06-19 21:35:46 <samlander> the misinformation in the other channels is maddening
5208 2011-06-19 21:35:46 <diki> no sql injection=no db dump
5209 2011-06-19 21:35:49 <ius> MagicalTux: Err?
5210 2011-06-19 21:35:52 monad has quit (Client Quit)
5211 2011-06-19 21:35:53 <copumpkin> monad: which two adjoint functors were your parents?
5212 2011-06-19 21:35:54 <upb> diki: 20 00:09 < upb> hehehehehehe (hehehe\' and 1=1-- )
5213 2011-06-19 21:35:56 <copumpkin> oh :(
5214 2011-06-19 21:36:04 dissipate has joined
5215 2011-06-19 21:36:10 monad has joined
5216 2011-06-19 21:36:17 <KuDeTa> all the celebs ar ehere
5217 2011-06-19 21:36:24 <KuDeTa> someone crap satoshi and tell him we have a crisis
5218 2011-06-19 21:36:24 <copumpkin> monad!
5219 2011-06-19 21:36:28 <diki> addslashes is a no go as well
5220 2011-06-19 21:36:30 <KuDeTa> grab*
5221 2011-06-19 21:36:33 <diki> bypassed easily
5222 2011-06-19 21:36:46 <jarly> hey, you guys remember when that guy said he was selling the Mt. Gox DB?
5223 2011-06-19 21:36:47 <Herodes> allright, what's the command to check if the password hash in the compromised list is equal to my current mtGox password?
5224 2011-06-19 21:36:47 <jarly> http://pastebin.com/ui0nusuZ
5225 2011-06-19 21:36:48 exstntlstfrtn_ has joined
5226 2011-06-19 21:36:49 <Herodes> echo -n "passord" | md5sum
5227 2011-06-19 21:36:54 <Herodes> could somthing like that work?
5228 2011-06-19 21:37:04 <GarrettB> http://xkcd.com/327/ seems MagicalTux didn't learn from Little Bobby Tables.
5229 2011-06-19 21:37:13 <MagicalTux> GarrettB: there was no SQL injection
5230 2011-06-19 21:37:18 <ius> Herodes: grep for your email, since you don't know the salt
5231 2011-06-19 21:37:24 <kunnis> diki EAch database provider has a special function for esacaping \... you should always use the functon they provide, not replacing ' with \'
5232 2011-06-19 21:37:26 <Herodes> I found my email.
5233 2011-06-19 21:37:29 <darnold> echo -n "password" | email -s "md5" lulzsec@mailinator.com
5234 2011-06-19 21:37:30 <monad> copumpkin indeed.
5235 2011-06-19 21:37:39 <Speeder> why so much people have awesomely crap passwords?
5236 2011-06-19 21:37:40 bitanarchy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5237 2011-06-19 21:37:41 <Herodes> darnold: that is the command to use?
5238 2011-06-19 21:37:46 <darnold> no that was a joke don't do that
5239 2011-06-19 21:37:51 <Herodes> hahaha
5240 2011-06-19 21:37:53 <Herodes> fuck you.
5241 2011-06-19 21:37:54 <diki> kunnis->in mysql...well,php it's mysql_real_escape_string
5242 2011-06-19 21:37:54 <Herodes> hehehe
5243 2011-06-19 21:38:08 <kunnis> Speeder PRobably because to make much use of the site you had to login. I'd hope none of the 123456 passwords have money in them.
5244 2011-06-19 21:38:17 <jarly> herodes: if your salt starts with $, don't worry so much right now
5245 2011-06-19 21:38:25 <samlander> it's been awhile since i've done any php/mysql.. does the php mysql lib have parameterized queries?
5246 2011-06-19 21:38:30 <ius> diki: Or, prepared statements and you don't have an issue at all
5247 2011-06-19 21:38:39 <jarly> if it doesn't, it's already been hacked.
5248 2011-06-19 21:38:39 <notallhere> please dont try to escape your sql, that should only be used as a last resort, read this https://www.owasp.org/index.php/SQL_Injection_Prevention_Cheat_Sheet
5249 2011-06-19 21:38:40 <upb> gmaxwell: there was no compromise, just one customers computer was hacked :)
5250 2011-06-19 21:38:42 <lyspooner> jarly why is that
5251 2011-06-19 21:38:43 <upb> ^_^
5252 2011-06-19 21:38:43 <Insti> kunnis: not anymore
5253 2011-06-19 21:38:55 <jarly> lyspooner: the ones that start with $ are salted
5254 2011-06-19 21:38:56 <ius> samlander: PDO at least, but it's a long time since I've written PHP
5255 2011-06-19 21:39:01 <notallhere> yes samlander thats the recommended prevention method
5256 2011-06-19 21:39:06 <gmaxwell> upb: er. One customer that had access to the entire password database?
5257 2011-06-19 21:39:11 <lyspooner> jarly why some salted and others not?
5258 2011-06-19 21:39:11 <samlander> notallhere: i was under the impression using paramaterized queries defeats sql injection
5259 2011-06-19 21:39:13 <jarly> until they find out the salt, they should be fine. however, be cautious and change passwords.
5260 2011-06-19 21:39:25 <gmaxwell> upb: you're not up to speed. The mtgox password database was posted in public.
5261 2011-06-19 21:39:33 <jarly> lyspooner: no one but magical tux knows
5262 2011-06-19 21:39:33 <notallhere> yup it totally does, unfortunately people dont seem to know about it
5263 2011-06-19 21:39:39 <upb> gmaxwell: are you sure? the thread has been deleted from forum
5264 2011-06-19 21:39:43 <kobach> um
5265 2011-06-19 21:39:44 <kobach> i have it
5266 2011-06-19 21:39:45 <upb> gmaxwell: im pretty sure it never happened
5267 2011-06-19 21:39:46 <gmaxwell> upb: Yes. I'm quite sure.
5268 2011-06-19 21:39:47 <kobach> im looking at it right now
5269 2011-06-19 21:39:49 <samlander> select * from table where a = @para1;
5270 2011-06-19 21:39:53 <kobach> whats your user name
5271 2011-06-19 21:39:56 masori has joined
5272 2011-06-19 21:39:57 <upb> BUT THE THREAD HAS BEEN DELETED!
5273 2011-06-19 21:40:02 <lyspooner> jarly i'm guessing it has to do with when you signed up
5274 2011-06-19 21:40:02 <upb> THERE WAS NO SQL INJECTION
5275 2011-06-19 21:40:03 <kobach> but i have the file
5276 2011-06-19 21:40:04 <samlander> kobach: can you try and crack my pw
5277 2011-06-19 21:40:07 <kobach> no
5278 2011-06-19 21:40:10 <jarly> lyspooner: probably
5279 2011-06-19 21:40:11 <kobach> i havent done that shit in years
5280 2011-06-19 21:40:11 <gmaxwell> upb: what was your account name?
5281 2011-06-19 21:40:13 sshc_ has joined
5282 2011-06-19 21:40:19 <lyspooner> jarly i signed up early and it was not salted
5283 2011-06-19 21:40:20 <kobach> but i can give you your hash
5284 2011-06-19 21:40:22 <gmaxwell> samlander: what was your account name?
5285 2011-06-19 21:40:24 milo_ has joined
5286 2011-06-19 21:40:24 <samlander> i have that
5287 2011-06-19 21:40:25 <diki> IF THERE WAS NO SQL INJECTION HOW DID THE DB GET DUMPED?!?!?!?
5288 2011-06-19 21:40:30 <samlander> i just wanted to see if it was reversable
5289 2011-06-19 21:40:32 <jarly> lyspooner: you better change your shit, man
5290 2011-06-19 21:40:33 <phantomcircuit> upb, there was sql injection
5291 2011-06-19 21:40:36 <GarrettB> MagicalTux: then how did they get the database
5292 2011-06-19 21:40:37 <kunnis> diki This doesn't look like the DB
5293 2011-06-19 21:40:38 <phantomcircuit> upb, that is clear
5294 2011-06-19 21:40:43 <ius> diki: There was, I don't know why he's claiming there wasn't..
5295 2011-06-19 21:40:47 <lyspooner> jarly it was a one-time password
5296 2011-06-19 21:40:47 <kobach> samlander if i could i would and pm you
5297 2011-06-19 21:40:49 <notallhere> so if it wasn't injection what was it? MagicalTux?
5298 2011-06-19 21:40:52 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: they coul have just gotten root. ;)
5299 2011-06-19 21:40:53 <kunnis> diki why get only these field if it was?
5300 2011-06-19 21:40:55 thallium205 has joined
5301 2011-06-19 21:41:00 <diki> lol,fail
5302 2011-06-19 21:41:02 <jarly> lyspooner: that's good.
5303 2011-06-19 21:41:04 <diki> fail kunnis
5304 2011-06-19 21:41:10 <ius> diki: And if it wasn't used then there was SQLi and an additional vuln to get the table without SQLi ;)
5305 2011-06-19 21:41:21 <jarly> i'm still a little curious about the guy claiming he was selling the mt gox database a couple days back
5306 2011-06-19 21:41:23 <GarrettB> MagicalTux: I'll believe it wasn't a MySQL injection when you can suggest a way to get the information they did without it.
5307 2011-06-19 21:41:24 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, lol
5308 2011-06-19 21:41:25 <jarly> maybe he's the root of the problem
5309 2011-06-19 21:41:28 <kunnis> diki adding a few fields like the customer's balance would be much more useful
5310 2011-06-19 21:41:34 <diki> for?
5311 2011-06-19 21:41:44 <diki> and how do you know he hasn't?
5312 2011-06-19 21:41:48 <Optimo> backdoor?
5313 2011-06-19 21:41:51 <diki> but keeping it for himself
5314 2011-06-19 21:41:55 <kunnis> GarrettB non-sql forms of injection, XML injection, script injection
5315 2011-06-19 21:41:57 <GarrettB> oh good, gmail has detected unusual activity on my accounts
5316 2011-06-19 21:42:04 <GarrettB> luckily I used a different password
5317 2011-06-19 21:42:11 <darnold> 2-factor ftw
5318 2011-06-19 21:42:29 sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5319 2011-06-19 21:42:37 xlcus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
5320 2011-06-19 21:43:05 <enki> oh
5321 2011-06-19 21:43:09 <enki> gmail also complains about my account
5322 2011-06-19 21:43:10 <enki> wtf
5323 2011-06-19 21:43:15 lyspooner has left ()
5324 2011-06-19 21:43:17 <briareus> chatters Maged and grubles and humana report suspecious gmail activity
5325 2011-06-19 21:43:19 <enki> i use a completely separate password
5326 2011-06-19 21:43:21 DavidSJ has joined
5327 2011-06-19 21:43:24 wetBang has joined
5328 2011-06-19 21:43:28 <darnold> yeah I got some unusual shit now too
5329 2011-06-19 21:43:34 <vegard> I had to verify my gmail by sms :-)
5330 2011-06-19 21:43:42 <darnold> I think it might be because of that mass email that went out
5331 2011-06-19 21:43:43 <enki> why?
5332 2011-06-19 21:43:47 monad has quit (Quit: Leaving)
5333 2011-06-19 21:43:56 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> when is mt goxgoing to start trading again?
5334 2011-06-19 21:43:56 <Maged> Pretty sure Mike just locked all gmail accounts on the MtGox list.
5335 2011-06-19 21:44:05 scheme has joined
5336 2011-06-19 21:44:05 <GarrettB> enki: same
5337 2011-06-19 21:44:05 scheme has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5338 2011-06-19 21:44:08 <GarrettB> you're gonna have to reset it
5339 2011-06-19 21:44:17 <GarrettB> Maged: what's his name on here?
5340 2011-06-19 21:44:18 <Maged> He works in Google's abuse department
5341 2011-06-19 21:44:24 <GarrettB> that would make sense
5342 2011-06-19 21:44:27 <eps> TD?
5343 2011-06-19 21:44:29 <TD> yep, sorry folks
5344 2011-06-19 21:44:41 <viggi> Oo
5345 2011-06-19 21:44:41 <TD> there's no way to know which passwords will get reversed and found to be shared over the next 24 hours or so
5346 2011-06-19 21:44:51 <TD> this is a standard procedure when faced with password leaks
5347 2011-06-19 21:44:51 agent-x has joined
5348 2011-06-19 21:44:54 milo_ has quit (Client Quit)
5349 2011-06-19 21:45:01 <diki> then move it move it move it
5350 2011-06-19 21:45:01 commonlisp has joined
5351 2011-06-19 21:45:02 <GarrettB> TD: thanks
5352 2011-06-19 21:45:03 <samlander> im not so much pissed that an account was hacked and sold off
5353 2011-06-19 21:45:06 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> whats up with the bitcoin trading?
5354 2011-06-19 21:45:11 <samlander> that shit happens, and the user is to blame for their own negligence
5355 2011-06-19 21:45:13 sshc has joined
5356 2011-06-19 21:45:18 <eps> i am not used to this level of personal service from google....
5357 2011-06-19 21:45:21 sshc has quit (Changing host)
5358 2011-06-19 21:45:21 sshc has joined
5359 2011-06-19 21:45:21 <samlander> i am a bit pissed that the user list got out
5360 2011-06-19 21:45:25 <GarrettB> samlander: as am I
5361 2011-06-19 21:45:25 <kobach> ^
5362 2011-06-19 21:45:25 sshc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5363 2011-06-19 21:45:27 <darnold> someone tell Mike thanks for me
5364 2011-06-19 21:45:30 <samlander> i want to know how that happened, and how it is being fixed.
5365 2011-06-19 21:45:39 <GarrettB> darnold: his name is TD here, just ping him :)
5366 2011-06-19 21:45:43 <darnold> oh ok!
5367 2011-06-19 21:45:46 <GarrettB> if my password is broken, I'm going to be very upset
5368 2011-06-19 21:45:47 <darnold> TD: thanks :)
5369 2011-06-19 21:45:51 <eps> samlander: you don't have to use mtgox
5370 2011-06-19 21:46:00 <TD> no problem. i am not done yet .... there are 20,000 gmails in that list :/
5371 2011-06-19 21:46:01 <GarrettB> pain in the ass to come up with and memorize a new one
5372 2011-06-19 21:46:04 <TD> i did the ones with the plaintext passwords first
5373 2011-06-19 21:46:07 <Optimo> ouch
5374 2011-06-19 21:46:09 <GarrettB> TD: are you manually adding them/
5375 2011-06-19 21:46:09 <GarrettB> ?
5376 2011-06-19 21:46:26 <enki> man, i'm upset they distributed the passwords as csv. json is much easier to process these days
5377 2011-06-19 21:46:32 <eps> haha
5378 2011-06-19 21:46:38 <samlander> as a canadian i dont have many options
5379 2011-06-19 21:46:53 msb8r has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5380 2011-06-19 21:47:05 <darnold> huh csv is easy.
5381 2011-06-19 21:47:17 dtionfosoagong has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5382 2011-06-19 21:47:20 <upb> hahahaha
5383 2011-06-19 21:47:22 <upb> @json
5384 2011-06-19 21:47:22 <intlkleinblue> Bittorrent is the general model Bitcoin is designed after, correct? At least, they share several fundamental characteristics
5385 2011-06-19 21:47:26 <intlkleinblue> amirite?
5386 2011-06-19 21:47:30 <KuDeTa> no
5387 2011-06-19 21:47:30 <GarrettB> intlkleinblue: kind of
5388 2011-06-19 21:47:31 <KuDeTa> not really
5389 2011-06-19 21:47:39 <GarrettB> I mean there are a lot of things in bitcoin
5390 2011-06-19 21:47:39 <enki> not at all
5391 2011-06-19 21:47:44 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVMÂAVTEMÂCENSEOÂCVTTENBERCÂESSEÂDELENDVM)
5392 2011-06-19 21:47:48 <mounte> ok, I just checked my password using php crypt that states they are generated using standard unix DES routine. checking if crypt("password", "string_from_db") == "password" is enough ... as far as I know no good lookup tables exist and some kind of bruteforce attack needs to be used and/or dictionary ...
5393 2011-06-19 21:47:50 Lexa has quit (Quit: Lexa)
5394 2011-06-19 21:47:50 <dude65535> The gmail freeze is going to be a pain in the ass for me. I will have to drive 20 miles to get the text msg with my verification code.
5395 2011-06-19 21:47:53 <GarrettB> what are you talking about specifically
5396 2011-06-19 21:48:02 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> I dont understand when the bitcoins will be trading again?
5397 2011-06-19 21:48:07 <viggi> dude65535: Better than losing your account though?
5398 2011-06-19 21:48:07 <kgo> TD, are you tracking down vanity domains hosted with gmail, or just @gmail.com.
5399 2011-06-19 21:48:08 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> when will markets reopen?
5400 2011-06-19 21:48:11 <GarrettB> ObamaSUCKSasshol: when it's fixed
5401 2011-06-19 21:48:14 <vegard> samlander: btw, the 500k btc user most likely had his/her password cracked _because_ of the userlist getting out (of mtgox)
5402 2011-06-19 21:48:31 notallhere has left ()
5403 2011-06-19 21:48:35 <ObamaSUCKSasshol> GarretD: what has to be fixed?
5404 2011-06-19 21:48:39 <dude65535> I used a unique password for Mtgox
5405 2011-06-19 21:48:41 <Optimo> mounte, someone else quoted 21 minutes with some miner-type ahrdware
5406 2011-06-19 21:48:43 notallhere has joined
5407 2011-06-19 21:48:57 <viggi> dude65535: Well, that's something they can't really check
5408 2011-06-19 21:48:58 HerbertFilby has joined
5409 2011-06-19 21:48:59 <KuDeTa> what a recipe for trouble
5410 2011-06-19 21:49:02 <TD> dude65535: i PMd you
5411 2011-06-19 21:49:02 Kurtov has joined
5412 2011-06-19 21:49:03 AcADIeN has joined
5413 2011-06-19 21:49:03 <intlkleinblue> things like the way bit/torrent/coin handle flooding of networks, distributed nature, crypto algos used, etc
5414 2011-06-19 21:49:12 davex__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5415 2011-06-19 21:49:20 <KuDeTa> hardware, geeks money ndhashes
5416 2011-06-19 21:49:25 <mounte> Optimo: ahh, so ... 21 min for what kind of keyspace and lengths ??
5417 2011-06-19 21:49:29 <XX01XX> Who was behind the MtGox hack?
5418 2011-06-19 21:49:33 <samlander> vegard: i have my own theory about that
5419 2011-06-19 21:49:36 _ui has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5420 2011-06-19 21:49:39 <Optimo> it's a md5 has with a salt
5421 2011-06-19 21:49:39 <XX01XX> bitomat?
5422 2011-06-19 21:49:42 <samlander> vegard: i dont think that it was a legitimate account to begin with
5423 2011-06-19 21:49:48 <Optimo> theoretically a user could figure out the salt
5424 2011-06-19 21:49:57 <samlander> vegard: i think that a shit ton of btc was trasnferred into it by comprimised accts from that list
5425 2011-06-19 21:49:58 <[unspecified]> ObamaSUKSasshol - bitcoins /are/being traded, just not on Mt Gox. It's not the only exchange!
5426 2011-06-19 21:50:01 <vegard> samlander: yeah, I tend to agree with that
5427 2011-06-19 21:50:03 <samlander> vegard: the sell off was the end game
5428 2011-06-19 21:50:05 <darnold> I wish all sites offered 2-factor auth like google :/
5429 2011-06-19 21:50:08 <samlander> the washing clean
5430 2011-06-19 21:50:10 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
5431 2011-06-19 21:50:24 <ius> TD: Appreciate the swift response by Google (although I guess it helps that you are involved here), even though my gmail is not on the list :)
5432 2011-06-19 21:50:27 <Optimo> mounte, sorry I'm not real savvy with hash stuff
5433 2011-06-19 21:50:32 <samlander> use stolen btc to crash the price buying with legitimate accounts
5434 2011-06-19 21:50:40 <samlander> as far as schemes goes it is bloodly brilliant
5435 2011-06-19 21:50:42 tcoppi has joined
5436 2011-06-19 21:50:55 <jtaylor> brilliant but obvious
5437 2011-06-19 21:50:59 jpierre has joined
5438 2011-06-19 21:51:03 <intlkleinblue> Plato was a bastard, sorry.
5439 2011-06-19 21:51:05 datguy has joined
5440 2011-06-19 21:51:06 apsoa has left ("Leaving.")
5441 2011-06-19 21:51:10 NxTitle has joined
5442 2011-06-19 21:51:16 <NxTitle> TD: do you work with google?
5443 2011-06-19 21:51:19 <intlkleinblue> sorry, wrong channel guys
5444 2011-06-19 21:51:20 <samlander> if i wer tux i'd be locking off access ot that and finding out where all the coins got transferred in from and setting up some sort of claim process for comprimised accts (if indeed that is how it went down) to get their btc back
5445 2011-06-19 21:51:21 <NxTitle> if so, thank you for locking out my account
5446 2011-06-19 21:51:26 <NxTitle> (genuinely)
5447 2011-06-19 21:51:40 <briareus> TD: thank you
5448 2011-06-19 21:51:52 <viggi> TD: Awesome job locking those leaked accounts.
5449 2011-06-19 21:51:57 <datguy> TD, thanks Google for being so quick to respond to this emergency
5450 2011-06-19 21:52:06 <jarly> yeah, TD, thanks
5451 2011-06-19 21:52:20 <eps> bitcoin won't forget google when we rule the world
5452 2011-06-19 21:52:22 <GarrettB> anybody know how long it would take to go through all possible 11 letter passwords?
5453 2011-06-19 21:52:22 <vegard> I'm sorry I had to change my password, though, which was already good :)
5454 2011-06-19 21:52:23 <NxTitle> inb4 TD doesn't actually work for google :P
5455 2011-06-19 21:52:25 <tcatm> TD: can you unlock my account or at least allow me to use my old password (which is completely different from any other password I use)?
5456 2011-06-19 21:52:30 <GarrettB> vegard: same
5457 2011-06-19 21:52:35 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
5458 2011-06-19 21:52:36 <jarly> GarrettB: a really, really long time
5459 2011-06-19 21:52:37 <NxTitle> tcatm: set a new password, then reset it to your old one
5460 2011-06-19 21:52:40 <GarrettB> though now I'm invincible! :D
5461 2011-06-19 21:52:49 <GarrettB> as long as google doesn't lose my password that is
5462 2011-06-19 21:52:52 <NxTitle> I have two factor authentication on my gmail
5463 2011-06-19 21:52:54 ezl has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5464 2011-06-19 21:53:05 HerbertFilby has quit (Client Quit)
5465 2011-06-19 21:53:08 rityuitmofa has joined
5466 2011-06-19 21:53:11 m00p has joined
5467 2011-06-19 21:53:28 jimrandomh has joined
5468 2011-06-19 21:53:40 Dunedan has joined
5469 2011-06-19 21:53:42 rityuitmofa has quit (Client Quit)
5470 2011-06-19 21:53:42 ezl_ has joined
5471 2011-06-19 21:53:43 magn3ts has joined
5472 2011-06-19 21:53:56 ionspin has joined
5473 2011-06-19 21:54:13 Lexa has joined
5474 2011-06-19 21:54:19 <jrmithdobbs> sipa / gavin / jgarzik: I apologize for the email you're about to get on the list in advance
5475 2011-06-19 21:54:26 ezl_ is now known as ezl
5476 2011-06-19 21:54:33 <tcatm> TD: nm. changing twice worked
5477 2011-06-19 21:54:33 <jrmithdobbs> but this shit's got to stop and f-d is the only way i know
5478 2011-06-19 21:54:37 md2k7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5479 2011-06-19 21:54:37 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: you too
5480 2011-06-19 21:54:51 <gavinandresen> f-d ????
5481 2011-06-19 21:54:52 edmonds has joined
5482 2011-06-19 21:55:04 <Optimo> gavinandresen: hi :)
5483 2011-06-19 21:55:08 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: get ready to fix your shit
5484 2011-06-19 21:55:16 <TD> tcatm: sorry about that. i know this is a pain.
5485 2011-06-19 21:55:28 ialianetemperate has joined
5486 2011-06-19 21:55:32 <gavinandresen> fix what? I can't fix something unless I know it is broken.
5487 2011-06-19 21:55:32 <briareus> TD: is it a manual thing? some in other channels are saying they're not locked out
5488 2011-06-19 21:55:34 <IncitatusOnWater> tcatm: MagicalTux can so easily prove that he still owns the 400k BTC why not use ur platform to get him to answer
5489 2011-06-19 21:55:35 <TD> nobody likes to choose new passwords, especially when it's not necessary. unfortunately there's no way to know which accounts are now vulnerable.
5490 2011-06-19 21:55:46 _ui has joined
5491 2011-06-19 21:55:47 <TD> briareus: i did the ones with leaked plaintext passwords first. the rest are coming up soon.
5492 2011-06-19 21:55:49 <Optimo> bitcoin is fine. exchanges are the problem today
5493 2011-06-19 21:55:50 <NxTitle> TD: +1
5494 2011-06-19 21:55:55 <Optimo> and pebkac
5495 2011-06-19 21:56:13 <commonlisp> #bitcoin is not allowing me to connect ? Any specific reason ?
5496 2011-06-19 21:56:13 <NxTitle> well, I'd say on average bitcoin users are more tech savvy
5497 2011-06-19 21:56:22 <briareus> thanks TD
5498 2011-06-19 21:56:27 <Optimo> I duno..that password list...
5499 2011-06-19 21:56:32 <tcatm> IncitatusOnWater: what makes you think these 400k BTC are his?
5500 2011-06-19 21:56:33 <Optimo> maybe those were all the drugdealers
5501 2011-06-19 21:56:33 <kgo> TD, are you tracking down custom domains hosted on gmail or not? I'm not sure if I have valid security answers.
5502 2011-06-19 21:56:34 sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
5503 2011-06-19 21:56:39 <vegard> TD: where did you get the leaked plaintext passwords? my gmail account needed verification, but my password was not easily crackable (random string of 13 characters)
5504 2011-06-19 21:56:39 <samlander> IncitatusOnWater: this aint the spanish inquisition
5505 2011-06-19 21:56:40 <magn3ts> TD, surely this won't be required of Google users who are using two-factor auth.
5506 2011-06-19 21:56:46 <KuDeTa> commonlisp are you in too many chanels/
5507 2011-06-19 21:56:51 <samlander> IncitatusOnWater: mt aint on trail, and he doesnt have to shown anyone shit.
5508 2011-06-19 21:56:51 <magn3ts> TD, or ones that had their passwords leaked as salted MD5?
5509 2011-06-19 21:56:57 <KuDeTa> try leaving one and joining anothe
5510 2011-06-19 21:57:02 <Herodes> what's up with the statement at https://britcoin.co.uk/ ? uninformed, hasty and panic message or truth? think thee first. But would be nice to have confirmed one way or another.
5511 2011-06-19 21:57:03 <samlander> IncitatusOnWater: if you dont trust the service any more fucking leave.
5512 2011-06-19 21:57:05 <IncitatusOnWater> tcatm: you dont' see 400K BTC transfers too often, and today there was on as well as this MTG situation
5513 2011-06-19 21:57:12 <erek> did they crack the salted md5 hashes?
5514 2011-06-19 21:57:17 <PandaBob> TC: what got done with the gmail accounts? i'm just asking as the first questions regarding gmail locks are appearing at the mtgox help page.
5515 2011-06-19 21:57:18 <jarly> vegard: briareus leaked them
5516 2011-06-19 21:57:20 sshc has joined
5517 2011-06-19 21:57:21 <gmaxwell> TD: any account with shortish password lengths are vulnerable because the md5 cracking is super fast.
5518 2011-06-19 21:57:23 <samlander> erek: just the weak ones
5519 2011-06-19 21:57:27 <smokemasta2> where the passwords salted ?
5520 2011-06-19 21:57:32 <gmaxwell> Where shortish <10.
5521 2011-06-19 21:57:33 <samlander> most of them
5522 2011-06-19 21:57:36 <gmaxwell> smokemasta2: most of them.
5523 2011-06-19 21:57:37 <IncitatusOnWater> I just believe people dealing with other people's money should be more responsible samlander
5524 2011-06-19 21:57:38 <n0n0> Hey MagicalTux, whatever comes out of it, here is a suggestion for you: Withdraw all except for the few coins that will be moved out of your exchange to a safe OFFLINE storage, if you do not do that already. Just keep in the exchange what people will probably withdraw in a given time. If there is a shortage of BTC, refill the trading mtgox account manually.
5525 2011-06-19 21:57:43 kv39 has joined
5526 2011-06-19 21:57:46 <vegard> jarly: sorry, could you give me the url? I already have briareus on ignore.
5527 2011-06-19 21:57:53 <Herodes> IncitatusOnWater: britcon stated he moved ALL his funds to a safe wallet.
5528 2011-06-19 21:57:57 <tcatm> IncitatusOnWater: that still does not proof those coins are at mtgox...
5529 2011-06-19 21:57:59 <Herodes> this could be that 400K wallet.
5530 2011-06-19 21:58:02 Tallken has joined
5531 2011-06-19 21:58:04 <smokemasta2> are like the early ones not salted or so ?
5532 2011-06-19 21:58:04 <Herodes> that 400K transfer, sorry.
5533 2011-06-19 21:58:05 <ThomasV> n0n0: he does
5534 2011-06-19 21:58:16 <n0n0> MagicalTux, I just do not hope you had all the "gold on the countertop"
5535 2011-06-19 21:58:20 Hal____ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
5536 2011-06-19 21:58:27 <samlander> IncitatusOnWater: and im happy for you, but if you're looking for security then go and play in a governed market. pretending that a distributed P2P network ought to play by the same rules as the banking system is fucking rediculous
5537 2011-06-19 21:58:29 <MagicalTux> n0n0: already did
5538 2011-06-19 21:58:36 <Tallken> Hi! Is there anyplace with bitcoin's tar.gz MD5/SHA1/whateversum ?
5539 2011-06-19 21:58:37 <n0n0> MagicalTux, ok, phew.
5540 2011-06-19 21:58:45 <n0n0> THAT is an important info. Thank you.
5541 2011-06-19 21:58:46 <Herodes> n0n0: agreed.
5542 2011-06-19 21:58:46 Tim-7967 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
5543 2011-06-19 21:59:11 dehuman has joined
5544 2011-06-19 21:59:15 <IncitatusOnWater> yes tcatm, but he can prove it by announcing he will make a transfer from his secure wallet and put to rest all these fears but he doesn't and he hasn't commented about the 400k even though so many people have asked him
5545 2011-06-19 21:59:26 <gmaxwell> Tallken: in the forum post announcing the releease.
5546 2011-06-19 21:59:38 <IncitatusOnWater> If I was him I think I would show people I haven't been robbed if I wasn't robbed
5547 2011-06-19 21:59:47 <dehuman> who is this TD character
5548 2011-06-19 21:59:49 <Herodes> MagicalTux: the dude running britcoin.co.uk apparently believes all the bitcoins of mtGox is actually transferred away from mtGox. There was a larger 400K transfer earlier today too. Is this britcoin guy just panicking/misinformed, or is this really the case?
5549 2011-06-19 21:59:53 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: did you see the message? if not I'll give you the details but this private disclosure stuff is not working for bitcoin, once again, I'm sorry
5550 2011-06-19 21:59:56 <dehuman> and in what way is he associated with google
5551 2011-06-19 21:59:56 <Optimo> clearcoin?
5552 2011-06-19 22:00:06 <MagicalTux> Herodes: he's panicking, obviously
5553 2011-06-19 22:00:11 lolak has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
5554 2011-06-19 22:00:18 <gavinandresen> jrmithdobbs: I've disabled clearcoin while I look into the problem.
5555 2011-06-19 22:00:19 <Herodes> MagicalTux: that is what i tought too. he seems like that guy.
5556 2011-06-19 22:00:20 <MrSam> hmm
5557 2011-06-19 22:00:26 <n0n0> MagicalTux, there are rumors emails have been sent around. I didn't get one yet, even though my email is in the csv. My password is only used on mtgox. Did you send out an official email or are there further scams/fishing attacks flying around?
5558 2011-06-19 22:00:27 johnlockwood has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5559 2011-06-19 22:00:27 <MrSam> i'm having something weird here
5560 2011-06-19 22:00:32 <jrmithdobbs> gavinandresen: i have not been sitting on this, jfyi
5561 2011-06-19 22:00:35 <MrSam> i start out with testnet in a box
5562 2011-06-19 22:00:38 <intlkleinblue> wait, is skype p2p? I thought there was a centralized for-profit company running it?
5563 2011-06-19 22:00:45 <MrSam> one account has 3650 the other nothing
5564 2011-06-19 22:00:49 * samlander starts raging
5565 2011-06-19 22:00:51 [unspecified] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5566 2011-06-19 22:00:54 <MrSam> i
5567 2011-06-19 22:00:54 <MrSam> "category" : "send",
5568 2011-06-19 22:00:54 <MrSam> "amount" : -200.00000000,
5569 2011-06-19 22:00:54 <MrSam> "fee" : -0.69000000,
5570 2011-06-19 22:00:54 <samlander> this is fucking bullshit
5571 2011-06-19 22:00:54 genjix has joined
5572 2011-06-19 22:00:56 <MrSam> to the other
5573 2011-06-19 22:00:59 <Herodes> n0n0: i got an e-mail.
5574 2011-06-19 22:01:02 BlueMatt has joined
5575 2011-06-19 22:01:05 <MrSam> and i mine on the first one
5576 2011-06-19 22:01:08 Kurtov has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5577 2011-06-19 22:01:09 finnomenon has joined
5578 2011-06-19 22:01:12 <Tallken> gmaxwell, thanks :)
5579 2011-06-19 22:01:14 <MrSam> so i recieve
5580 2011-06-19 22:01:14 <MrSam> "category" : "immature",
5581 2011-06-19 22:01:14 <MrSam> "amount" : 50.69000000,
5582 2011-06-19 22:01:22 <MagicalTux> n0n0: I sent one official email asking people to change their password asap
5583 2011-06-19 22:01:24 <MrSam> and i have my transaction fee back
5584 2011-06-19 22:01:25 <BlueMatt> TD: still around?
5585 2011-06-19 22:01:26 <n0n0> Herodes, I don't.
5586 2011-06-19 22:01:29 <MagicalTux> if they used the same on mtgox and somewhere else
5587 2011-06-19 22:01:36 <TD> BlueMatt: yep
5588 2011-06-19 22:01:41 <n0n0> MagicalTux, hmm. AAH. spam folder :)
5589 2011-06-19 22:01:41 <MrSam> now if i do the getbalance
5590 2011-06-19 22:01:42 <MrSam> i get
5591 2011-06-19 22:01:42 <MrSam> 3499.31000000
5592 2011-06-19 22:01:47 <dehuman> i'd like to know who this TD guy is and if he is a google employee or just some vigilante proceeding create invalid gmail login attempts to force gmail verification
5593 2011-06-19 22:01:49 zelyony has left ()
5594 2011-06-19 22:01:50 <Herodes> MagicalTux: could you maybe contact the britcoin guy and tell him there is no reason to panic then, so he could remove that message from his site? No need to spure more panic when there is no need to.
5595 2011-06-19 22:01:54 <genjix> MagicalTux: instead of paying devs to fix your broken software, why not pay us to setup a new site for you based on our OpenSource software running on Britcoin, which has a team of 4 fulltime developers working on it.
5596 2011-06-19 22:01:57 <jlgaddis> dehuman: he's from google
5597 2011-06-19 22:02:00 johnlockwood has joined
5598 2011-06-19 22:02:01 <MrSam> so there is .69 missing .. the fee
5599 2011-06-19 22:02:07 <dehuman> grr
5600 2011-06-19 22:02:15 <Titeuf_87> dehuman, he's a google employee
5601 2011-06-19 22:02:16 <btcrowan> TD works for google and is very well known around here
5602 2011-06-19 22:02:22 <MagicalTux> genjix: had to deal with the ddos, increase in support staff, etc first
5603 2011-06-19 22:02:32 <jarly> TD is a google employee
5604 2011-06-19 22:02:38 <BlueMatt> TD: just got back, been thinking about the betting-to-incentivise miners thing...
5605 2011-06-19 22:02:40 <dehuman> my password is fine, i dont want to change it!
5606 2011-06-19 22:02:44 <genjix> MagicalTux: the site is broken beyond repair. we were trying to contact you for days.
5607 2011-06-19 22:02:51 <jarly> I talked to him, he's making all the gmail users on the list go through some security measures
5608 2011-06-19 22:02:56 <genjix> drop the software, use something better.
5609 2011-06-19 22:03:03 <MagicalTux> genjix: the more I receive email the more the new system is delayed
5610 2011-06-19 22:03:08 <Maged> More specifically, TD works in the abuse department, so he already had access to the tools to lock accounts.
5611 2011-06-19 22:03:13 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: if he's panicking prove you're in possession of the coins.
5612 2011-06-19 22:03:13 <dehuman> i'm complaining to google
5613 2011-06-19 22:03:18 <bitsnbytes> magicaltux: are you sending official mtgox email with (envelope-from <root@w001.mo.us.xta.net>)
5614 2011-06-19 22:03:25 <dehuman> eh maybe not
5615 2011-06-19 22:03:27 <MagicalTux> bitsnbytes: yep
5616 2011-06-19 22:03:31 <dehuman> goddamn people that cant internet
5617 2011-06-19 22:03:32 <bitsnbytes> ok
5618 2011-06-19 22:03:33 GuitarJJ has joined
5619 2011-06-19 22:03:35 <genjix> MagicalTux: so outsource it to us.
5620 2011-06-19 22:03:35 <dehuman> this is why we cant have nice things
5621 2011-06-19 22:03:37 <elnato> anyone else who had gmail on the database have google tell them they detected suspicious activity?
5622 2011-06-19 22:03:44 <GuitarJJ> yes, me
5623 2011-06-19 22:03:45 phearful has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5624 2011-06-19 22:03:47 <genjix> we have a reputable company setup
5625 2011-06-19 22:03:49 <MagicalTux> genjix: outsourcing sounds bad
5626 2011-06-19 22:03:53 <kobach> .mo.us
5627 2011-06-19 22:03:56 <kobach> im in .mo.us
5628 2011-06-19 22:04:04 <jarly> elnato: every gmail user on the list is being told they have detected suspicious activity
5629 2011-06-19 22:04:07 <GuitarJJ> I think, google got the .csv list
5630 2011-06-19 22:04:17 <MagicalTux> genjix: unless you tell me you can handle liability ?
5631 2011-06-19 22:04:24 <dehuman> i'm gonna be outraged if i have to change my gmail password'
5632 2011-06-19 22:04:27 unspecified has joined
5633 2011-06-19 22:04:35 <genjix> MagicalTux: we have a lawyer and could set something up.
5634 2011-06-19 22:04:38 <ericmock> dehuman: you will be
5635 2011-06-19 22:04:39 <kobach> if you wouldnt use the same password everywhere itw ouldnt be a problem
5636 2011-06-19 22:04:39 <elnato> jarly
5637 2011-06-19 22:04:41 <elnato> tnx
5638 2011-06-19 22:04:43 <MagicalTux> genjix: you need more than one lawyer
5639 2011-06-19 22:04:48 <genjix> MagicalTux: also rolling back is illegal
5640 2011-06-19 22:04:49 <BlueMatt> TD: its a really cool idea...bet the miners that they cant make a target and make them try...but it does need some thought. Mostly wrt what, exactly, the market would look like if funded by betting
5641 2011-06-19 22:04:51 <jarly> elnato: haha, your welcome, for what?
5642 2011-06-19 22:04:51 <CorvusCorax> dehuman, prepare to outrage then :)
5643 2011-06-19 22:04:55 <genjix> you could go to jail for a long time.
5644 2011-06-19 22:04:58 <Herodes> there is no need to do any security audit on my gmail account. christ. it already has a damn secure password. the only thing is compromised is the e-mail adress it self. but i guess they just do this for anyone with a g-mail account on that list. oh well, just have to go through that verification again then... but probably better safe than sorry, i asume some would have the same passwords on mtgox and google.
5645 2011-06-19 22:04:59 <BlueMatt> TD: it could work, but it needs discussion
5646 2011-06-19 22:05:03 Cablesaurus has quit (Quit: Take my advice. I don't use it anyway)
5647 2011-06-19 22:05:04 <erek> MagicalTux: [Mt.Gox] Account database compromised (that's your official e-mail?) mailed-by w001.mo.us.xta.net
5648 2011-06-19 22:05:16 blaupunk has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
5649 2011-06-19 22:05:17 <MagicalTux> erek: yep, anyway just change your password if you used the same on mtgox
5650 2011-06-19 22:05:18 <erek> MagicalTux: some people were speculating that it was spoofed by the hackers
5651 2011-06-19 22:05:22 <quellhorst> where was the password database leaked to?
5652 2011-06-19 22:05:22 <MrSam> if anyone could unlock my newbie status on the forum i could take my issue there :)
5653 2011-06-19 22:05:29 <samlander> genjix: it what jurisdiction
5654 2011-06-19 22:05:33 <dehuman> a-ha
5655 2011-06-19 22:05:34 <samlander> genjix: is the rollback illegal?
5656 2011-06-19 22:05:35 oozyburglar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5657 2011-06-19 22:05:41 <dehuman> i pre-emptively changed my gmail password
5658 2011-06-19 22:05:45 <dehuman> so when forced i can change it back!
5659 2011-06-19 22:05:49 <genjix> samlander: UK
5660 2011-06-19 22:05:52 edmonds has quit (Quit: leaving)
5661 2011-06-19 22:05:57 <IncitatusOnWater> he may go to jail for a very long time for doing a roll back wiht out the legal authority to do it
5662 2011-06-19 22:06:06 <samlander> genjix: mtgox is not under her magesties jurisdiction
5663 2011-06-19 22:06:15 <samlander> majesties, sorry
5664 2011-06-19 22:06:19 <Cusipzzz> genjix: every major exchange has broken trades at one time or another.. NYSE, Nasdaq, every single one.
5665 2011-06-19 22:06:25 edmonds has joined
5666 2011-06-19 22:06:28 <jarly> samlander: majesty's :)
5667 2011-06-19 22:06:31 scott` has joined
5668 2011-06-19 22:06:33 <samlander> right
5669 2011-06-19 22:06:39 <Optimo> but it's also illegal to trade what you know is stolen
5670 2011-06-19 22:06:39 <droud> IncitatusOnWater: There's no legalities involved unless they lost cash.
5671 2011-06-19 22:06:41 <IncitatusOnWater> Cusipzzz: yes but tehy have liceses to do such a thing
5672 2011-06-19 22:06:42 <samlander> I <3 qeII
5673 2011-06-19 22:06:47 <genjix> Cusipzzz: that makes mtgox's shoddy security acceptable.
5674 2011-06-19 22:06:58 <genjix> this is not the first time they have been cracked
5675 2011-06-19 22:07:02 <genjix> it is one of many
5676 2011-06-19 22:07:08 <genjix> each time getting bigger and worse.
5677 2011-06-19 22:07:08 <samlander> im sorry mark that your day is fucked
5678 2011-06-19 22:07:10 <CorvusCorax> genjix, no need to troll
5679 2011-06-19 22:07:17 <Herodes> IncitatusOnWater: so MagicalTux is the criminal now? What about the hacker who sold someone elses coins? He is not to blame then I guess... ? So if a thief steals a ferrari and sells it to you for 1K, and then the car shop owner comes and wants it back, then you call the car show owner a criminal?
5680 2011-06-19 22:07:17 <andyfletcher> anyway if the authorities did make an issue of rollback they would be confirming that bitcoin is real money
5681 2011-06-19 22:07:21 <Herodes> NICE THINKING...
5682 2011-06-19 22:07:29 <Cusipzzz> i agree security is a massive problem, but breaking trades is super standard for all exchanges.
5683 2011-06-19 22:07:34 somuchwin has joined
5684 2011-06-19 22:07:42 <samlander> MagicalTux: we know you're doing what you can. I appreciate it. It just fucking sucks. mtgox is the only exchange worth trading on right now for me.
5685 2011-06-19 22:07:44 <IncitatusOnWater> Herodes: of course not, but the law is the law and people do rash things
5686 2011-06-19 22:07:45 <PandaBob> MagicalTux: 11 a.m. jst is the planned time for service to come back. how likely is it from your current point of view. u'm just wondering if it makes sense to get up from bed in about 4 hours ...
5687 2011-06-19 22:07:51 <Optimo> even back in the gold days
5688 2011-06-19 22:07:52 <genjix> MagicalTux: anyway if you believe clinging onto insourcing is a good idea... good luck with that.
5689 2011-06-19 22:07:55 <samlander> MagicalTux: i can trade on virtex but there is no fucking movement :(
5690 2011-06-19 22:08:10 <IncitatusOnWater> if someone breaks into your house and steals X, it is illegal for you to break into theirs to take it back
5691 2011-06-19 22:08:10 <genjix> MagicalTux: we're on #bitcoinconsultancy whenever you want to discuss ;)
5692 2011-06-19 22:08:12 <MagicalTux> PandaBob: depends on how soon the cops finish their report
5693 2011-06-19 22:08:15 genjix has left ()
5694 2011-06-19 22:08:20 <BlueMatt> TD: if you did it in a completely open-market way, where people bet against miners, and miners chose what they do, and dont, want to accept, it could absolutely work. It could even be tested now, if a pool operator were willing, though that opens more decentralization debate as all miners would tend towards the pool with the best contracts
5695 2011-06-19 22:08:22 <n0n0> MagicalTux, if it was no SQL injection, what was the path of entry?
5696 2011-06-19 22:08:45 <TD> BlueMatt: sorry, not really thinking about that right now. can we discuss later?
5697 2011-06-19 22:08:49 <Optimo> competition for pools, for exchanges.
5698 2011-06-19 22:08:54 <BlueMatt> TD: no problem
5699 2011-06-19 22:09:01 <MrSam> anyone ? :)
5700 2011-06-19 22:09:29 <PandaBob> MagicalTux: ah ok. that helps. so technicaly the issue already got resolved? pending/remaining tasks are mostly paperwork, now?
5701 2011-06-19 22:09:35 <heistplay> tha 1kk huge transfer was you moving the coins to a safe place MagicalTux ?
5702 2011-06-19 22:09:37 aoeui has joined
5703 2011-06-19 22:10:02 <MagicalTux> PandaBob: we need to do something with those trades and restore the site first
5704 2011-06-19 22:10:02 <n0n0> heistplay, MagicalTux: Yes, that is what I am interested. Is that your safe wallet? Can you prove it?
5705 2011-06-19 22:10:10 <MagicalTux> disable all the passwords in the database
5706 2011-06-19 22:10:16 <MagicalTux> collect report of hacked emails, verify them
5707 2011-06-19 22:10:32 <MagicalTux> etc
5708 2011-06-19 22:10:39 dbasch has joined
5709 2011-06-19 22:10:42 <PandaBob> ok. so good luck and thanks for your support.
5710 2011-06-19 22:10:52 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
5711 2011-06-19 22:10:55 <CorvusCorax> what with the accounts without email?
5712 2011-06-19 22:10:57 newark73 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
5713 2011-06-19 22:11:00 <phantomcircuit> MagicalTux, announce you're going to send funds to address x, send funds to address x, prove you still have funds
5714 2011-06-19 22:11:01 <phantomcircuit> enjoy
5715 2011-06-19 22:11:20 _ui has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
5716 2011-06-19 22:11:23 <Cusipzzz> CorvusCorax: good question
5717 2011-06-19 22:11:23 <Carandiru> well they must be able to crack the passwords already, if they were able to login multiple accounts finding one that had a lot of bitcoin to sell off
5718 2011-06-19 22:11:24 <MagicalTux> phantomcircuit: I already did a few 50k transfers
5719 2011-06-19 22:11:25 _ui has joined
5720 2011-06-19 22:11:30 Nachtwind has joined
5721 2011-06-19 22:11:51 zamgo has joined
5722 2011-06-19 22:12:04 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
5723 2011-06-19 22:12:11 intlkleinblue has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5724 2011-06-19 22:12:18 <CorvusCorax> phantomcircuit, MagicalTux - doesnt work that way, once its in the blocklist anyone can claim that, it needs to be pre-announced
5725 2011-06-19 22:12:22 <n0n0> MagicalTux, I appreciate your efforts and that you do not run away but answer questions here gives me back some confidence. Still, I think it would be great if you could show that you are in possession of the large reserve of coins by signing a message with the private keys of these coins. Think about it, this would probably make a lot of people happy and keep bitcoins stable. Also, I hope you have them in a physically secu
5726 2011-06-19 22:12:23 <n0n0> re vault :-)
5727 2011-06-19 22:12:29 tommygunner has joined
5728 2011-06-19 22:12:36 <Optimo> I did see some big stuff in the tx log
5729 2011-06-19 22:12:54 <samlander> what makes you think bitcoins are not stable?
5730 2011-06-19 22:13:09 <samlander> was I the only one who watched a $13.5 comeback?
5731 2011-06-19 22:13:13 <samlander> give the fucking guy a break
5732 2011-06-19 22:13:31 mrenouf has joined
5733 2011-06-19 22:13:37 <n0n0> samlander, hmm. the exchange with 90% market control failing?
5734 2011-06-19 22:13:48 <Optimo> well if there were 400k coins missing that would be a big chunk of what's out there. but that is speculation
5735 2011-06-19 22:14:06 <mrenouf> Did anyone notice all the SQL-injection attempts in the accounts db?
5736 2011-06-19 22:14:13 <andyfletcher> frankly I'm surprised the other markets didn't tank too, its a sign that there is some stability in the currency
5737 2011-06-19 22:14:17 tommygunner has left ()
5738 2011-06-19 22:14:19 <ThomasV> Optimo: who said they are missing ?
5739 2011-06-19 22:14:37 <Optimo> ThomasV that's what other are suggesting
5740 2011-06-19 22:14:38 Tallken has quit (Quit: Leaving)
5741 2011-06-19 22:14:44 <Optimo> the currency is fine
5742 2011-06-19 22:14:45 <picci> did anyone crack the ones with salts as well?
5743 2011-06-19 22:14:58 <gmaxwell> WTF. The wallet encryption code uses a constant salt?
5744 2011-06-19 22:14:58 <samlander> it seems to me the only people who dont want the rollback are the ones that bought a fuckton of bitcoins when it was low
5745 2011-06-19 22:15:02 <gmaxwell> picci: sure.
5746 2011-06-19 22:15:07 <Cusipzzz> samlander: of course
5747 2011-06-19 22:15:14 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
5748 2011-06-19 22:15:18 <samlander> and for those who transfered out before the freeze.. congrats. free coins.
5749 2011-06-19 22:15:20 <CorvusCorax> picci, not all of them. whats working against those are dictionary and brute force attackls. they take their time, but after 48h you can assume more or less all of them as cracked
5750 2011-06-19 22:15:26 <samlander> mt is probably going to have to swallow that
5751 2011-06-19 22:15:29 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: damnit. I need to yell at you about the wallet encryption code being incompetent.
5752 2011-06-19 22:15:39 <samlander> so quit the bitching and moaning ffs because he's doing what he can
5753 2011-06-19 22:15:56 Fairuser is now known as FTHISIMOUT
5754 2011-06-19 22:16:00 K_F has joined
5755 2011-06-19 22:16:10 <theymos> Bitcoin Block Explorer is now very fast. However, pages are cached server-side for a while, so you may see some wrong data from time to time.
5756 2011-06-19 22:16:14 <samlander> seems to me that if i withdrew and had my gox account rolledback that my coins would magically appear back in my account before the withdrawl
5757 2011-06-19 22:16:19 <samlander> effectively doubling me up
5758 2011-06-19 22:16:23 scott` has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
5759 2011-06-19 22:16:26 ajp6 has joined
5760 2011-06-19 22:16:34 <Optimo> theymos: blockexplorer.com ?
5761 2011-06-19 22:16:34 <samlander> that didnt happen for me, but im sure it will be the case for some people
5762 2011-06-19 22:16:38 <gmaxwell> samlander: presumably they won't rollback any txn what were withdrawn.
5763 2011-06-19 22:16:39 <phantomcircuit> CorvusCorax, sorry... who are you?
5764 2011-06-19 22:16:42 ialianetemperate has quit (Quit: Page closed)
5765 2011-06-19 22:16:47 <samlander> gmaxwell: mm
5766 2011-06-19 22:16:53 <samlander> gmaxwell: that would be better imo
5767 2011-06-19 22:16:53 <theymos> Optimo: Yes.
5768 2011-06-19 22:16:59 <Optimo> cheers
5769 2011-06-19 22:17:17 <CorvusCorax> I'm here by accident. I stumbled in here this afternoon with a few questions about the BC protocol, and then all hell broke loose
5770 2011-06-19 22:17:21 <gmaxwell> samlander: if they had a delay before you could withdraw (e.g. a couple hours) then there would have been none of that.
5771 2011-06-19 22:17:41 <sblinda> gmaxwell: can you share the salted dump?
5772 2011-06-19 22:17:42 <samlander> gmaxwell: no i dont agree with that
5773 2011-06-19 22:17:48 <samlander> gmaxwell: i agree with numerical limits
5774 2011-06-19 22:17:51 <samlander> gmaxwell: but not time
5775 2011-06-19 22:17:55 <samlander> people should have access
5776 2011-06-19 22:18:00 <gmaxwell> samlander: it's normal for brokerages to make you wait until trades close to withdraw.
5777 2011-06-19 22:18:03 <samlander> people should also use strong fucking passwords
5778 2011-06-19 22:18:12 <samlander> gmaxwell: perhaps
5779 2011-06-19 22:18:12 <briareus> [17:06] < new300> Can someone from #mtgox please get in touch with me. I have reason to believe I've tracked down one of the people involved. #bitcoin
5780 2011-06-19 22:18:14 <gmaxwell> samlander: my etrade and ameritrade accounts are like that.
5781 2011-06-19 22:18:15 <briareus> [17:06] < new300> (Sirus on twitter)
5782 2011-06-19 22:18:17 <samlander> gmaxwell: but trades never close here
5783 2011-06-19 22:18:25 ben36_ has joined
5784 2011-06-19 22:18:27 <phantomcircuit> CorvusCorax, ok then how about you not telling me how things work? mkay
5785 2011-06-19 22:18:29 <kgo> I did withdraw. Trying to decide what the ethical action is. I didn't even buy too cheap, in the double digits. I'll be happy if I can keep the coins and still pay the same money.
5786 2011-06-19 22:18:29 <Cusipzzz> even with a 1000USD equivalent limit in btc, hackers just need to crash it down to $1 again to withdraw 1kbtc from a lot of accounts.
5787 2011-06-19 22:18:42 <phantomcircuit> CorvusCorax, oh sorry
5788 2011-06-19 22:18:43 ben36_ has quit (Client Quit)
5789 2011-06-19 22:18:51 <phantomcircuit> CorvusCorax, you were backin me up :O
5790 2011-06-19 22:18:56 <samlander> kgo: i bought at 15.33
5791 2011-06-19 22:19:03 <CorvusCorax> LOL
5792 2011-06-19 22:19:08 <samlander> kgo: a whole whopping 5.13 brc
5793 2011-06-19 22:19:08 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5794 2011-06-19 22:19:08 _ui has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
5795 2011-06-19 22:19:09 <samlander> btc
5796 2011-06-19 22:19:14 <Optimo> let's umm... try to stay on topic ;p
5797 2011-06-19 22:19:20 jeffasinger has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5798 2011-06-19 22:19:22 <gmaxwell> samlander: strong passwords are important.. but folks who had even 8 character totally random ones are exposed.
5799 2011-06-19 22:19:23 takezo420 has quit (Quit: takezo420)
5800 2011-06-19 22:19:33 joepie91 has joined
5801 2011-06-19 22:19:41 <vegard> what is a "safe length" these days, then?
5802 2011-06-19 22:19:41 <gmaxwell> samlander: presumably the attacker could see balances too. :-/
5803 2011-06-19 22:19:42 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5804 2011-06-19 22:19:53 <CorvusCorax> np
5805 2011-06-19 22:19:56 <samlander> vegard: 12 characters comprising of upper and lower letters, numbers and symbols
5806 2011-06-19 22:20:02 <Optimo> 15
5807 2011-06-19 22:20:06 <gmaxwell> vegard: I use 16 character totally random passwords. But 12 would be safe too.
5808 2011-06-19 22:20:09 <bitsnbytes> 20
5809 2011-06-19 22:20:13 <Optimo> 100
5810 2011-06-19 22:20:13 FTHISIMOUT is now known as FreakingTheFukOu
5811 2011-06-19 22:20:20 <CorvusCorax> over 6000 !
5812 2011-06-19 22:20:20 <samlander> and if you really wanna fuck someone put a þ into your password for good measure
5813 2011-06-19 22:20:20 rewtgrok has joined
5814 2011-06-19 22:20:26 tuoppi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
5815 2011-06-19 22:20:30 <vegard> I had 13, but I was locked out of gmail (and TD said only the ones that were cracked had been locked so far)
5816 2011-06-19 22:20:33 takezo420 has joined
5817 2011-06-19 22:20:33 <samlander> my password is my private key
5818 2011-06-19 22:20:41 davex__ has joined
5819 2011-06-19 22:20:45 <gmaxwell> samlander: in the gawker password file there is an account with the password â½
5820 2011-06-19 22:20:47 Slasklitta has quit (Quit: Page closed)
5821 2011-06-19 22:21:00 <ius> vegard: No, he's locking all, just gave a few priority
5822 2011-06-19 22:21:01 lorenzoIT has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5823 2011-06-19 22:21:02 <samlander> (j/k about the private key)
5824 2011-06-19 22:21:11 AStove has joined
5825 2011-06-19 22:21:12 darin has joined
5826 2011-06-19 22:21:17 <midnightmagic> ah there we go. it is possible to build in the john the ripper opencl MD5 cracker after all..
5827 2011-06-19 22:21:24 karnac has joined
5828 2011-06-19 22:21:29 <CorvusCorax> samlander, I had some pretty annoying issues with special characters when tghe site I used them on switched their page from non utf8 to utf8
5829 2011-06-19 22:21:42 <GuitarJJ> I've a 10 characters password without numbers our special signs, is there a big risc now?
5830 2011-06-19 22:21:42 <ius> If it's 13 random chars with a good charset you'll be fine for now
5831 2011-06-19 22:21:42 * midnightmagic waits for his name to show up.
5832 2011-06-19 22:21:46 devon_hillard has joined
5833 2011-06-19 22:21:47 Kurtov has joined
5834 2011-06-19 22:21:56 ben36 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
5835 2011-06-19 22:22:12 joepie91 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
5836 2011-06-19 22:22:26 <ius> GuitarJJ: Dictionary words included? Absolutely. Nevertheless, you'll want to change passwords if you re-used it
5837 2011-06-19 22:22:39 <kgo> GuitarJJ, still makes a big difference if it's words or random characters? Words, not good enough.
5838 2011-06-19 22:22:47 pensan has quit (Quit: Leaving)
5839 2011-06-19 22:22:59 genjix has joined
5840 2011-06-19 22:23:02 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: whoa, where is that?
5841 2011-06-19 22:23:05 <GuitarJJ> it's a dutch word
5842 2011-06-19 22:23:09 fairy44 has quit (Quit: leaving)
5843 2011-06-19 22:23:14 <GuitarJJ> already changed other passwords :)
5844 2011-06-19 22:23:37 <ius> GuitarJJ: 1724770 Feb 10 12:51 opentaal_dutch.txt
5845 2011-06-19 22:23:41 n0n0 has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
5846 2011-06-19 22:23:42 <ius> ;)
5847 2011-06-19 22:23:42 FreakingTheFukOu is now known as Fairuser
5848 2011-06-19 22:23:49 <MrSam> :/
5849 2011-06-19 22:23:56 <GuitarJJ> oh, damnit!
5850 2011-06-19 22:24:00 wiedi has quit (Quit: all you need to do is STOP)
5851 2011-06-19 22:24:06 <MrSam> anyone here got 2 minutes for me ?
5852 2011-06-19 22:24:17 <eps> MrSam: whats up?
5853 2011-06-19 22:24:29 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: It's in the john the ripper patches.. check this out: Raw: 30541K c/s real, 35345K c/s virtual
5854 2011-06-19 22:24:36 <dehuman> use apg to generate good passwords
5855 2011-06-19 22:24:40 subpar_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
5856 2011-06-19 22:24:47 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: yea, I've got that on CPUS. ;)
5857 2011-06-19 22:25:01 <gmaxwell> (actually much better than that)
5858 2011-06-19 22:25:03 subpar has joined
5859 2011-06-19 22:25:03 <midnightmagic> you suck. :-P
5860 2011-06-19 22:25:04 tuoppi has joined
5861 2011-06-19 22:25:06 sabalaba has joined
5862 2011-06-19 22:25:17 <midnightmagic> well.. that's just on one card in one of my miners.
5863 2011-06-19 22:25:17 <samlander> MagicalTux: so what's the plan.. are you cleaning out the order book?
5864 2011-06-19 22:25:28 <ius> GuitarJJ: Time.Running.: 2 secs Recovered....: 1/1 Digests, 1/1 Salts
5865 2011-06-19 22:25:32 <midnightmagic> i suppose I could parallelize it out.. hrm.
5866 2011-06-19 22:25:35 <ius> Don't do that ever again, use *safe* passwords
5867 2011-06-19 22:25:39 RAM2012 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
5868 2011-06-19 22:25:54 <jtaylor> hmm is it coincidence that my email seems to get more spam now oO
5869 2011-06-19 22:25:56 <ius> GuitarJJ: Change it everywhere you've used it before, etc.
5870 2011-06-19 22:26:09 <jtaylor> 4 mails got through the filter in the last hour alone, usually its less than one a day
5871 2011-06-19 22:26:33 <jtaylor> as my mail is in the leaked mtgox file
5872 2011-06-19 22:26:34 <commonlisp> Kudeta, no
5873 2011-06-19 22:26:39 commonlisp has left ("Leaving")
5874 2011-06-19 22:26:44 Obehsh has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
5875 2011-06-19 22:26:53 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: does it only support the raw md5?
5876 2011-06-19 22:27:09 joepie91 is now known as 2!~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl|joepie91
5877 2011-06-19 22:27:15 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: there are good rainbow tables for that..
5878 2011-06-19 22:27:34 commonlisp has joined
5879 2011-06-19 22:27:37 unspecified has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
5880 2011-06-19 22:27:58 <jarly> but there won't be rainbow tables with the salt, whatever it is
5881 2011-06-19 22:28:01 <midnightmagic> yeah looks like it. i have my CPU-based crackers working on the salted ones..
5882 2011-06-19 22:28:24 coolio has joined
5883 2011-06-19 22:28:31 <MrSam> well
5884 2011-06-19 22:28:32 <gmaxwell> jarly: so? You make one. Then steal 10,000 wallets with a worm.
5885 2011-06-19 22:28:32 sb_ has joined
5886 2011-06-19 22:28:34 <MrSam> eps http://pastebin.com/B9rMC8YB
5887 2011-06-19 22:28:43 <jarly> i don't even
5888 2011-06-19 22:28:53 torsthaldo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
5889 2011-06-19 22:28:58 sb_ is now known as Guest76398
5890 2011-06-19 22:29:01 <gmaxwell> jarly: oh were you not responding to my comment about the wallet crypto?
5891 2011-06-19 22:29:03 <FarmerGreene> midnightmagic: Have you seen or used BarsWf before? If I remember correctly it's Cuda, not openCl.
5892 2011-06-19 22:29:03 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
5893 2011-06-19 22:29:11 <midnightmagic> lol, I bet hashparty is just going absolutely nuts right now.
5894 2011-06-19 22:29:24 <jarly> nope, i thought you were talking about the leak
5895 2011-06-19 22:29:28 jpierre has quit (Quit: Quitte)
5896 2011-06-19 22:29:44 <midnightmagic> FarmerGreene: I'm sorry, I haven't.
5897 2011-06-19 22:29:48 bst-- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
5898 2011-06-19 22:29:52 lolak has joined
5899 2011-06-19 22:30:06 marc0polo has joined
5900 2011-06-19 22:30:42 <MrSam> eps: something you can help me with ? :)
5901 2011-06-19 22:30:43 <FarmerGreene> midnightmagic: It's a GPU MD5 cracker, and a fast one at that.
5902 2011-06-19 22:30:44 <upb> MrSam: ooks like the second one is generation + fee no ?:P
5903 2011-06-19 22:30:48 <gmaxwell> jarly: ah, yea, rainbow tables aren't useful for the salted ones, of course.
5904 2011-06-19 22:30:55 <upb> MrSam: 50 + 9 makes sense
5905 2011-06-19 22:31:01 <jarly> farmergreene: use oclhashcatlite instead :)
5906 2011-06-19 22:31:04 <MrSam> upb: and 41 + 49 ? :)
5907 2011-06-19 22:31:04 <GuitarJJ> thanks for the tips, ius
5908 2011-06-19 22:31:06 min0r has joined
5909 2011-06-19 22:31:07 <MrSam> should be 100 right
5910 2011-06-19 22:31:09 <gmaxwell> FarmerGreene: whitepixel is the obvious tool for raw md5.
5911 2011-06-19 22:31:11 <jarly> it's fast and ATi-specific
5912 2011-06-19 22:31:11 <MrSam> so there is 9 missing
5913 2011-06-19 22:31:18 <min0r> DEVS need to create a trusted exchange.
5914 2011-06-19 22:31:20 <min0r> get on it.
5915 2011-06-19 22:31:37 <jarly> damn, actually, whitepixel seems faster
5916 2011-06-19 22:31:42 <min0r> an exchange hosted or supported by bitcoin.org needs to exist... these 3rd party exchanges are not trustworthy
5917 2011-06-19 22:31:55 <Wuked> guys I've got fees set to 0.00 in bitcon.conf but all my transactions have "fee" : -0.00050000
5918 2011-06-19 22:31:55 <min0r> or someone should create a decentralized exchange
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