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6 2011-06-21 00:03:10 <kunnis> unclemantis Someone has to generate the key for that address... yes.
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9 2011-06-21 00:03:44 <kunnis> the address identifies the public key that is used to verify any transactions.
10 2011-06-21 00:04:12 <kunnis> your wallet contains the keys.
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12 2011-06-21 00:04:58 <unclemantis> what is to prevent people from taking a public address, like an address seen on donation sites and generating a private key that way?
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16 2011-06-21 00:05:51 <kunnis> unclemantis Taking a public key and generating the private key is "not easy"... As in would take more time then the estimated life of the universe "not easy"
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20 2011-06-21 00:06:44 <unclemantis> lol ok
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22 2011-06-21 00:07:12 <unclemantis> so i just validate the address using the validateaddress. When it flags as True then it is end of story
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25 2011-06-21 00:07:28 <kunnis> while it is techinally possible, it's "not easy". I think it's actually a bit easier then that, it depends on how fast math and computers evolve.
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28 2011-06-21 00:09:06 <unclemantis> what is the mathematical equation to validate a bitcoin public address?
29 2011-06-21 00:09:30 <kunnis> I understand basic theory, I don't know the practice
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32 2011-06-21 00:10:25 <unclemantis> i am looking to make a form field generator for it
33 2011-06-21 00:10:42 <unclemantis> and treat it as a field validatior for email woould
34 2011-06-21 00:10:50 <unclemantis> a@a.com is valid email, end of story
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36 2011-06-21 00:11:05 <unclemantis> blahblahblah is valid bitcoin address, end of story
37 2011-06-21 00:11:41 <unclemantis> i could send a confirmation email to a@a.com and then wait for that user to validate their email address
38 2011-06-21 00:11:52 <unclemantis> what i was truly looking for was a way to do this with bitcoin address
39 2011-06-21 00:12:31 <unclemantis> i suppose I could validate the bitcoin address the wait banks do
40 2011-06-21 00:12:35 <tcatm> unclemantis: just use validateaddress
41 2011-06-21 00:12:50 <unclemantis> deposit xx pennies and then tell me how much i deposisted to validate the account
42 2011-06-21 00:13:13 <kunnis> unclemantis I can do that completely with block explorer
43 2011-06-21 00:13:28 <kunnis> without knowing the private key. All transactions are public knowledge.
44 2011-06-21 00:13:30 <unclemantis> kunnis do what? explain
45 2011-06-21 00:13:56 <kunnis> http://blockexplorer.com/
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48 2011-06-21 00:14:29 <kunnis> if you want to validate that someone controls an address, have them send a penny to you. That's something only the coin-owner can do.
49 2011-06-21 00:15:14 <kunnis> you can type in an address into block explorer and see exactly what's happened to that coin. find a donation address, and you can find out how much has been donated to that person
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53 2011-06-21 00:16:23 <unclemantis> oh wow
54 2011-06-21 00:16:36 Titanium123 has joined
55 2011-06-21 00:16:48 <Titanium123> anyone buying bitcoins?
56 2011-06-21 00:16:54 Jaagu has joined
57 2011-06-21 00:17:24 <kgo> Titanium123, prolly want #bitcoin-otc or #bitcoin-pit
58 2011-06-21 00:17:34 <Titanium123> cant get in but I will try pit
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61 2011-06-21 00:20:05 <unclemantis> ok... so I would have them send me btc and then i can take the public address that they gave me earlier and I can match it up?
62 2011-06-21 00:20:25 <kunnis> Yes
63 2011-06-21 00:20:51 <kunnis> but what's odd is teh bitcoin interface kind of sucks at doing that.
64 2011-06-21 00:21:04 <DiSTANT187> rofl... I just tried to do an instant sell on trade hill and I got this error message
65 2011-06-21 00:21:04 <DiSTANT187> Sorry, you do not have enough BTC available to make this sale. 0.8401 BTC available and 0.8401 BTC needed.
66 2011-06-21 00:21:59 <unclemantis> is blockexplorer.com like a indexer? like Google search?
67 2011-06-21 00:22:16 <unclemantis> or is this reading transactions in real time?
68 2011-06-21 00:22:45 <kunnis> it has a history of all bitcoin transactions.
69 2011-06-21 00:23:15 <unclemantis> how recent? minutes?
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71 2011-06-21 00:23:17 <unclemantis> hours?
72 2011-06-21 00:23:32 <kunnis> there's the "blockchain" that has all bitcoin transactions, ever. It has a copy of it, along with most bitcoin transactions. It's up to date within a few mins
73 2011-06-21 00:23:33 <unclemantis> if i send you a coin like right now, will it show up or does it take a few minutes?
74 2011-06-21 00:23:59 <unclemantis> so it is off by one block
75 2011-06-21 00:24:07 <kunnis> it also depends on how long it takes for the transaction to get into the blockchain.
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77 2011-06-21 00:24:20 <unclemantis> it can't show you the current block, but it can show you all the blocks before that?
78 2011-06-21 00:24:32 <kunnis> Not really
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80 2011-06-21 00:25:25 <kunnis> IT's just out of date about a min or two. block explorer caches the results because so many people hit the site. If you need transaction info, run a bitcoin client, and you can poll the block chain from there.
81 2011-06-21 00:26:08 <unclemantis> so i can do what blockexplorer is doing myself?
82 2011-06-21 00:26:13 <kunnis> but transactions can take up to a few hours to get into the block chain.
83 2011-06-21 00:26:18 <unclemantis> 432109.87654321 WOW! And I am happy with my 20btc :P
84 2011-06-21 00:26:19 <kunnis> unclemantis Yes, very easily.
85 2011-06-21 00:26:39 <kunnis> it's baked into the bitcoin client
86 2011-06-21 00:26:46 <unclemantis> kunnis care to send me to a wiki?
87 2011-06-21 00:26:57 <kunnis> I don't know how to do it, I just know it's easy :)
88 2011-06-21 00:27:12 <unclemantis> do you know what it is called?
89 2011-06-21 00:27:44 <kunnis> Nope. But you're in the right channel to ask.
90 2011-06-21 00:27:53 bitcoiner has joined
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92 2011-06-21 00:28:08 <kunnis> I'm still a noob to btc, I know the basics, I haven't gotten too far into the dev yet.
93 2011-06-21 00:29:20 <unclemantis> we can learn together :)
94 2011-06-21 00:29:46 <[7]> fpgaminer: http://pastie.org/private/yfna2z4don44t1tm6dcf0a
95 2011-06-21 00:29:58 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: still think i was overreacting after this dramabomb? just sayin.
96 2011-06-21 00:30:14 josephholsten_ has joined
97 2011-06-21 00:31:24 <kunnis> fpgaminer You inspired me to get my own fpga. I've been playing with it, but I don't have my uart working yet, so I haven't even started cramming a miner on it.
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99 2011-06-21 00:31:33 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: no idea what you're talking about
100 2011-06-21 00:31:48 <unclemantis> http://blockexplorer.com/q
101 2011-06-21 00:31:57 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: tux just randomly called out *one of his users* as the "hacker" with no evidence.
102 2011-06-21 00:32:05 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: publically.
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107 2011-06-21 00:32:23 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: obviously without consulting counsel seeing as libel is a VERY serious thing in japan.
108 2011-06-21 00:32:39 <markio> so what is tradehill trading at?
109 2011-06-21 00:32:39 <jgarzik> -EWHOCARES
110 2011-06-21 00:32:41 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20250.0
111 2011-06-21 00:32:50 * jgarzik yawns
112 2011-06-21 00:32:59 <unclemantis> markio it is almost back to normal
113 2011-06-21 00:33:05 <unclemantis> was trading at 8usd this morning
114 2011-06-21 00:33:22 * unclemantis bangs head. still waiting for bank and dwolla to finish
115 2011-06-21 00:33:33 <markio> I think dwolla forgot about me
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120 2011-06-21 00:35:25 <fiverawr> Is there any information available for making a "thin" bitcoin client? I don't fully understand the specification yet, and I'm wondering how you would only be able to obtain blocks that you absolutely required?
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124 2011-06-21 00:38:41 <D0han> fiverawr: you cant do that directly from network
125 2011-06-21 00:38:51 <tcatm> fiverawr: bitcoin.pdf + wiki + source code :)
126 2011-06-21 00:39:28 <D0han> you would have to ask trusted client (with entire blockchain) to select and send you what you need
127 2011-06-21 00:41:06 <upb> asdf http://www.webcitation.org/5zatPYDru
128 2011-06-21 00:42:32 <fiverawr> jrmithdobbs: Just read magicaltux's post. I think I'm missing something, is he saying kevin knows the hacker because they logged in at around about the same time? ;x
129 2011-06-21 00:42:33 backwardation25 has joined
130 2011-06-21 00:42:57 <jrmithdobbs> fiverawr: sorry for bringing that up in here. #bitcoin please
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133 2011-06-21 00:43:33 <fiverawr> jrmithdobbs: k
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145 2011-06-21 00:50:47 <unclemantis> the banks and dwolla are like the slowest link!
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160 2011-06-21 01:03:41 <coyo> hey all o/
161 2011-06-21 01:04:00 <coyo> how difficult would it be to write a bitcoin client in node.js from scratch?
162 2011-06-21 01:05:01 CheapScotsman has joined
163 2011-06-21 01:05:18 <tcatm> coyo: ask bitcoinjs.com, they did that
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165 2011-06-21 01:05:37 airfox has quit (Quit: Bye!)
166 2011-06-21 01:05:49 <coyo> um
167 2011-06-21 01:05:54 <coyo> domain not registered
168 2011-06-21 01:06:41 <coyo> https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p
169 2011-06-21 01:06:43 <coyo> here it is
170 2011-06-21 01:06:58 <tcatm> maybe it was bitcoinjs.org, sorry
171 2011-06-21 01:07:47 vigilyn has joined
172 2011-06-21 01:09:24 <jgarzik> Beware non-lawyers wielding legal opinions :) </random>
173 2011-06-21 01:11:01 taub has joined
174 2011-06-21 01:11:05 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr personal * r7b87b5a206b9 poclbm-personal/BitcoinMiner.py: s/invalid or stale/rejected/, since we don't know why http://tinyurl.com/3duc54u
175 2011-06-21 01:11:55 <ericmock> Beware lawyers writing code
176 2011-06-21 01:12:04 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
177 2011-06-21 01:12:19 <taub> are there code examples / tutorials how a merchant can automate / handle purchases in btc?
178 2011-06-21 01:15:32 UberCookies has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
179 2011-06-21 01:15:53 <dbasch> that's an interesting idea
180 2011-06-21 01:16:06 <dbasch> if every open-source ecommerce platform had btc integration
181 2011-06-21 01:16:10 <dbasch> made super easy
182 2011-06-21 01:16:22 EPiSKiNG- has joined
183 2011-06-21 01:16:29 <dbasch> that would seriously help adoption
184 2011-06-21 01:17:30 <dbasch> I saw the one for magento
185 2011-06-21 01:17:38 <dbasch> but there are many others, e.g. spree
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190 2011-06-21 01:24:09 <taub> so there isnt? :/ i am dissapoint bitcoin
191 2011-06-21 01:24:09 aristidesfl has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
192 2011-06-21 01:24:34 darnold has joined
193 2011-06-21 01:29:10 <dbasch> I found this: https://github.com/davout/spree-bitcoin-checkout
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197 2011-06-21 01:32:59 <brocktice> ;;seen gavinandresen
198 2011-06-21 01:32:59 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 4 hours, 44 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> casascius: no, I try to avoid conferences....
199 2011-06-21 01:33:17 <brocktice> anyone had problems releasing coins on clearcoin?
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287 2011-06-21 02:29:56 <casascius> BCBot op: log link attempted to install malware on my machine
288 2011-06-21 02:30:34 ezl_ has joined
289 2011-06-21 02:31:17 <gmaxwell> casascius: hm?
290 2011-06-21 02:31:45 <casascius> the window turned into one of those "Now scanning your system for viruses..." fake antivirus XP sort of thing...
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294 2011-06-21 02:35:23 <gmaxwell> casascius: I don't actually see the link in question
295 2011-06-21 02:35:32 <gmaxwell> probably due to the netsplit.
296 2011-06-21 02:35:45 cosmos has joined
297 2011-06-21 02:36:05 <casascius> -BCBot- Hello casascius, thank you for joining #bitcoin-dev, this is a logged channel. The log can be seen under http://bit.ly/iPFi3X
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299 2011-06-21 02:36:35 <gmaxwell> doh
300 2011-06-21 02:36:58 <gmaxwell> hm I wonder if it was due to an advert on the site.
301 2011-06-21 02:38:28 <samlander> well so much for that
302 2011-06-21 02:38:49 enquire has joined
303 2011-06-21 02:38:58 <samlander> i understand mark cant get the new server up until whenver he gets it up but it is frustrating that i cannot access my funds until then
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314 2011-06-21 02:46:11 <Taveren93HGK> hey guys, has anyone else encountered a memory leak with phoenix/phatk?
315 2011-06-21 02:46:34 <Taveren93HGK> seems replicable across hardware and operating systems
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330 2011-06-21 03:02:44 <BitcoinForNewegg> how does the client verify the block chain is the real one?
331 2011-06-21 03:02:51 <BitcoinForNewegg> what if it forked a year ago
332 2011-06-21 03:02:53 Fairuser is now known as AWK!~Fairuser@static-50-53-33-113.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net|Fairuser
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339 2011-06-21 03:16:07 <tcatm> BitcoinForNewegg: forking is expensive (in terms of computation power needed)
340 2011-06-21 03:16:48 ahbritto has joined
341 2011-06-21 03:16:55 <tcatm> BitcoinForNewegg: but in the end the longest chain (with most computation power used to create it) will win
342 2011-06-21 03:19:15 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
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352 2011-06-21 03:28:15 LightRider is now known as LightRider|afk
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355 2011-06-21 03:29:42 cuddlefish has joined
356 2011-06-21 03:29:50 <cuddlefish> Hey, I need to buy some testnet coins
357 2011-06-21 03:30:02 <tcatm> cuddlefish: how much?
358 2011-06-21 03:30:16 <cuddlefish> tcatm: what's the going rate
359 2011-06-21 03:30:39 <tcatm> 10 BTC/testcoin :)
360 2011-06-21 03:30:43 <Sthebig> Why not just set up your own testnet?
361 2011-06-21 03:30:53 <cuddlefish> tcatm: Oka... wait.
362 2011-06-21 03:31:02 <tcatm> cuddlefish: no, really. how many do you need?
363 2011-06-21 03:31:19 <cuddlefish> tcatm: It depends what the rate is
364 2011-06-21 03:31:27 <tcatm> depends on the amount
365 2011-06-21 03:31:32 <cuddlefish> well, crap.
366 2011-06-21 03:31:36 <Storagewars> so when in the sweet flying fuck is mtgox going back up??!
367 2011-06-21 03:31:39 <cuddlefish> tcatm: Perhaps 100 or so?
368 2011-06-21 03:31:46 <tcatm> cuddlefish: address?
369 2011-06-21 03:32:16 <cuddlefish> tcatm: One sec. I've got to set this up still
370 2011-06-21 03:32:35 <tcatm> rate is 0, but you're free to send me some bitcoins
371 2011-06-21 03:32:50 Calchan_ is now known as Calchan
372 2011-06-21 03:32:54 <cuddlefish> tcatm: ubitex is getting escrow, and I don't want live BTC on the dev server
373 2011-06-21 03:34:31 Storagewars has quit ()
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380 2011-06-21 03:38:38 vonnieda has joined
381 2011-06-21 03:39:10 <vonnieda> Is anyone currently working on encryption for wallet.dat in the official client? If not, I might be interested in taking it on and putting together a patch for it.
382 2011-06-21 03:40:07 <jgarzik> vonnieda: yes, though input and code is always welcome. http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8728.0
383 2011-06-21 03:40:08 nomit has joined
384 2011-06-21 03:40:27 <vonnieda> jgarzik: Ah, great! Thanks for the link.
385 2011-06-21 03:40:50 McTest has joined
386 2011-06-21 03:41:15 <wasabi2> Do the JSON 'id' fields matter at all?
387 2011-06-21 03:41:31 <tcatm> wasabi2: no
388 2011-06-21 03:41:37 <wasabi2> k. figured.
389 2011-06-21 03:41:53 _nomit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
390 2011-06-21 03:41:56 <McTest> ;;bc,calc 440000
391 2011-06-21 03:41:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 440000 Khps, given current difficulty of 877226.66666667 , is 14 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 34 minutes, and 23 seconds
392 2011-06-21 03:42:10 <wasabi2> I was getting lots of server rejected my solution things for the hashes my new miner was submitting... but I just fed into it a json thing, with an actual solution (waited 10 minutes for one to appear)... and it looks okay.
393 2011-06-21 03:42:26 <wasabi2> So I'm thinking maybe I'm submitting the data wrong.
394 2011-06-21 03:42:26 <scott`> ;;bc,calc 1200000
395 2011-06-21 03:42:28 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 877226.66666667 , is 5 weeks, 1 day, 8 hours, 8 minutes, and 36 seconds
396 2011-06-21 03:42:53 <wasabi2> ;;bc,calc 8200000
397 2011-06-21 03:42:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 8200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 877226.66666667 , is 5 days, 7 hours, 37 minutes, and 50 seconds
398 2011-06-21 03:43:02 _nomit has joined
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403 2011-06-21 03:44:46 <cuddlefish> tcatm: how long is the testnet blockchain
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408 2011-06-21 03:46:22 <tcatm> cuddlefish: I got 25373 blocks
409 2011-06-21 03:46:50 joecool has joined
410 2011-06-21 03:46:51 <cuddlefish> tcatm: okay
411 2011-06-21 03:46:54 joecool has left ()
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414 2011-06-21 03:49:58 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: http://blockexplorer.com/testnet
415 2011-06-21 03:50:55 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: snazzy!
416 2011-06-21 03:53:23 wolfspraul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
417 2011-06-21 03:54:12 <cuddlefish> tcatm: and i'm caught up! we should reset the blockchain more often :D
418 2011-06-21 03:54:31 <cuddlefish> tcatm: mrCbPtzep2y9GNzdqSgnVDeoxyS8KvQEUr
419 2011-06-21 03:55:14 <tcatm> coins sent
420 2011-06-21 03:55:23 <tcatm> 1H5i6nUEJpppcTZVetqkFYh5Z6jwMeoemD
421 2011-06-21 03:56:19 <cuddlefish> excellent
422 2011-06-21 03:56:19 <NxTitle> don't all btc addresses start with a 1?
423 2011-06-21 03:56:26 <cuddlefish> NxTitle: that's testnet
424 2011-06-21 03:56:41 <NxTitle> ah
425 2011-06-21 03:57:30 <copumpkin> https://dev.metasploit.com/redmine/projects/framework/repository/revisions/12993/entry/modules/post/windows/gather/bitcoin_jacker.rb :)
426 2011-06-21 03:57:52 <copumpkin> not really much of an exploit, eh
427 2011-06-21 03:57:57 <copumpkin> but still cute that it's in metasplit now
428 2011-06-21 03:58:00 <copumpkin> metasploit
429 2011-06-21 03:58:04 MtGox_Adam has joined
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431 2011-06-21 03:58:48 <NxTitle> hallo MtGox_Adam, any updates?
432 2011-06-21 04:00:30 wolfspraul has joined
433 2011-06-21 04:00:33 enquire has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
434 2011-06-21 04:00:36 <NxTitle> eh, nvm - I'll wait until the EDT morning
435 2011-06-21 04:01:09 <MtGox_Adam> MT has visitors atm, very close to getting the claim site launched. Sorry for the delay
436 2011-06-21 04:01:33 csshih has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
437 2011-06-21 04:01:54 <NxTitle> no worries, and sounds good to hear
438 2011-06-21 04:02:02 csshih has joined
439 2011-06-21 04:02:09 <tcatm> MtGox_Adam: will it be possible to see pending USD withdrawals (from last week)?
440 2011-06-21 04:02:12 scott` has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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446 2011-06-21 04:07:21 <samlander> adam: was good to put a face to the name
447 2011-06-21 04:07:29 <samlander> where abouts in canada are you from?
448 2011-06-21 04:07:33 <samlander> (got that eastern look to ya)
449 2011-06-21 04:07:43 shockdiode has joined
450 2011-06-21 04:07:47 <MtGox_Adam> tcatm: I'll ask Mark when he's free.
451 2011-06-21 04:08:08 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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453 2011-06-21 04:08:47 <NxTitle> if MtGox_Adam is from Ottawa I'm having a beer with him
454 2011-06-21 04:09:00 <NxTitle> then possibly holding him hostage :D
455 2011-06-21 04:09:02 <samlander> copumpkin: simple answer to that... allow the user to create the wallet file where ever they want... preferably on a crypto locked usb key
456 2011-06-21 04:09:12 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
457 2011-06-21 04:09:12 phearful has quit ()
458 2011-06-21 04:09:13 <samlander> instead of hardcoding into one location
459 2011-06-21 04:09:19 MMavipc has joined
460 2011-06-21 04:09:24 <samlander> i should get the windows source code and recompile with that addin
461 2011-06-21 04:09:29 phearful has joined
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463 2011-06-21 04:09:45 <copumpkin> samlander: the encryption would stop it more than the arbitrary location
464 2011-06-21 04:09:45 vigilyn has joined
465 2011-06-21 04:09:48 <MMavipc> Anyone have a oracle username & pass I could use to fucking download Berkerly DB, when I try to create one and I click continue, nothing happens
466 2011-06-21 04:09:55 phearful has joined
467 2011-06-21 04:09:59 <samlander> copumpkin: agreed, but it would make it a shit load easier to use
468 2011-06-21 04:10:02 <copumpkin> samlander: also, if they have access to your computer like that, they can probably log keys and steal your password/key :)
469 2011-06-21 04:10:03 <copumpkin> but yeah
470 2011-06-21 04:10:10 karnac has joined
471 2011-06-21 04:10:15 <TecnoBrat> MtGox_Adam, tell me you are a BC boy :P
472 2011-06-21 04:10:28 <samlander> copumpkin: case being the usb key would be like an actual key.. if it's not in the computer its not stealable
473 2011-06-21 04:10:39 <tcatm> MtGox_Adam: great. thx!
474 2011-06-21 04:10:43 <TecnoBrat> also MtGox_Adam pick a logo already, god! http://logotournament.com/contests/mt.gox
475 2011-06-21 04:10:45 <MtGox_Adam> TecnoBrat: Man, the last place I want to associate myself with is there these days
476 2011-06-21 04:10:46 <MtGox_Adam> haha
477 2011-06-21 04:10:49 <TecnoBrat> (I kid, I kid)
478 2011-06-21 04:11:06 <MtGox_Adam> Originally from Calgary, lived in Vancouver for 5 years. I like to say I'm from Van... until recently
479 2011-06-21 04:11:09 <TecnoBrat> MtGox_Adam, PFFT
480 2011-06-21 04:11:13 <TecnoBrat> hahaha
481 2011-06-21 04:11:17 <NxTitle> MtGox_Adam: leader of the riots
482 2011-06-21 04:11:19 <MMavipc> Could somneone with an oracle account please mirror http://download.oracle.com/otn/berkeley-db/db-5.2.28.zip ?
483 2011-06-21 04:11:45 <TecnoBrat> NxTitle, the MtGox hack was actually payback .. did you see that guy lighting the cop car on fire? that was adam.
484 2011-06-21 04:11:58 <NxTitle> XD
485 2011-06-21 04:12:00 <MtGox_Adam> TecnoBrat: The logo's are too hard to pick. I'm thinking #59
486 2011-06-21 04:12:24 <MtGox_Adam> I've got alibi's that say I was here :P
487 2011-06-21 04:12:42 <NxTitle> just take em all, make it rotate the logos :P
488 2011-06-21 04:12:56 <NxTitle> ???
489 2011-06-21 04:13:00 <NxTitle> profit
490 2011-06-21 04:13:05 <TecnoBrat> there is a bunch of wookasheen ones that are good
491 2011-06-21 04:13:11 <TecnoBrat> 83
492 2011-06-21 04:13:12 <TecnoBrat> 84
493 2011-06-21 04:13:14 <MtGox_Adam> Then we have to pay everyone the reward....
494 2011-06-21 04:13:18 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
495 2011-06-21 04:13:22 <samlander> adam: call me crazy but im partial to 56
496 2011-06-21 04:13:27 <TecnoBrat> http://logotournament.com/contests/mt.gox/by/wookasheen
497 2011-06-21 04:13:32 <TecnoBrat> they are similar
498 2011-06-21 04:13:36 <TecnoBrat> but all are really nice
499 2011-06-21 04:13:49 <TecnoBrat> 113 is neat
500 2011-06-21 04:14:27 <TecnoBrat> 26 is too, I like the way the orbits make an X
501 2011-06-21 04:14:40 <MtGox_Adam> WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT
502 2011-06-21 04:14:43 <MtGox_Adam> :(
503 2011-06-21 04:14:57 <TecnoBrat> hahaha
504 2011-06-21 04:15:01 <tcatm> #113 reminds me more of "wireless transmission" or sound waves than an exchange
505 2011-06-21 04:15:19 <TecnoBrat> I can see that .. yea
506 2011-06-21 04:15:22 <samlander> adam: so which province u from?
507 2011-06-21 04:15:22 <MtGox_Adam> tcatm: Aye.
508 2011-06-21 04:15:45 <MtGox_Adam> From AB, heart is in BC
509 2011-06-21 04:16:06 <TecnoBrat> (I'm vancouver island born and raised)
510 2011-06-21 04:16:08 lessPlastic has joined
511 2011-06-21 04:16:24 <NxTitle> nice
512 2011-06-21 04:16:35 <samlander> oh man did i have that one wrong
513 2011-06-21 04:16:36 <MtGox_Adam> Very nice, I like the Island ;)
514 2011-06-21 04:16:50 <samlander> <- born and raised in calgary
515 2011-06-21 04:16:53 <MMavipc> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20424.0
516 2011-06-21 04:17:02 <NxTitle> I lived in ottawa for 2 years, grew up in north bay, moved back to ottawa
517 2011-06-21 04:17:03 <samlander> grew up in forest lawn :/
518 2011-06-21 04:17:03 <NxTitle> lol
519 2011-06-21 04:17:29 <MtGox_Adam> samlander: Nice, I'm originally from the North West
520 2011-06-21 04:17:31 <NxTitle> damn harper
521 2011-06-21 04:17:34 octarine has joined
522 2011-06-21 04:17:37 <samlander> nah harper is fine
523 2011-06-21 04:17:40 <samlander> would you rather have obama?
524 2011-06-21 04:17:52 <MtGox_Adam> (calgary)
525 2011-06-21 04:17:54 <NxTitle> this is a good point
526 2011-06-21 04:17:59 <samlander> adam: good man
527 2011-06-21 04:18:08 <MMavipc> no one :(?
528 2011-06-21 04:18:12 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
529 2011-06-21 04:18:33 <NxTitle> though I voted NDP
530 2011-06-21 04:18:39 dbasch has joined
531 2011-06-21 04:18:42 <NxTitle> inb4 shun :P
532 2011-06-21 04:19:27 dsockwel1 is now known as dsockwell
533 2011-06-21 04:19:40 Tim-7967 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
534 2011-06-21 04:19:56 dbasch has quit (Client Quit)
535 2011-06-21 04:20:23 <NxTitle> MMavipc: what?
536 2011-06-21 04:21:01 <MMavipc> It wont let me create an account to download berkerly DB with
537 2011-06-21 04:21:03 <MMavipc> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20424.0
538 2011-06-21 04:21:13 <MMavipc> I need someone to mirror the zip for me
539 2011-06-21 04:21:16 <NxTitle> o
540 2011-06-21 04:21:33 <NxTitle> yeah I can't help
541 2011-06-21 04:21:38 <NxTitle> sry
542 2011-06-21 04:21:54 <NxTitle> also, how is this bitcoin related at all?
543 2011-06-21 04:22:03 <MMavipc> bitcoin depends on berkerly db
544 2011-06-21 04:22:09 <MMavipc> I can't compile without it
545 2011-06-21 04:22:21 <NxTitle> o
546 2011-06-21 04:22:32 <MMavipc> You should know that since you're in the dev channel lol
547 2011-06-21 04:22:55 <NxTitle> I do know, but I forot
548 2011-06-21 04:22:58 <NxTitle> forgot
549 2011-06-21 04:23:07 <NxTitle> it's late where I am :P
550 2011-06-21 04:23:22 <NxTitle> well, relatively
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556 2011-06-21 04:26:42 <upb> MMavipc: tried bugmenot.com _
557 2011-06-21 04:26:44 <upb> ?
558 2011-06-21 04:27:06 octarine has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
559 2011-06-21 04:27:07 <BitcoinForNewegg> anyone here know how bitcoin client works?
560 2011-06-21 04:27:29 <BitcoinForNewegg> how does it tell that a block chain is real?
561 2011-06-21 04:27:53 dvide_ has joined
562 2011-06-21 04:28:25 <tcatm> BitcoinForNewegg: it starts from the genesis block and verifies all following blocks
563 2011-06-21 04:28:34 Jamesboo_ has joined
564 2011-06-21 04:28:37 JRWR has quit ()
565 2011-06-21 04:28:40 <BitcoinForNewegg> but how does it know which branch is legit?
566 2011-06-21 04:28:40 <Jamesboo_> when is mt gox coming back u?p
567 2011-06-21 04:28:45 <tcatm> BitcoinForNewegg: the longest.
568 2011-06-21 04:28:45 <Jamesboo_> how many hours?
569 2011-06-21 04:28:59 RazielZ has joined
570 2011-06-21 04:29:03 dvide has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
571 2011-06-21 04:29:04 <BitcoinForNewegg> then bitcoinhas a gaping security hole and I will break it myself and get all the money
572 2011-06-21 04:29:09 <upb> MMavipc: hey i remembered my old account from old workplace lol :)
573 2011-06-21 04:29:13 <upb> so i'll get it for u
574 2011-06-21 04:29:42 <NxTitle> BitcoinForNewegg: cool beans, good luck
575 2011-06-21 04:29:42 <Jamesboo_> Mt Gox, are they about to start trading again soon?
576 2011-06-21 04:29:49 <cacheson> BitcoinForNewegg: do it up
577 2011-06-21 04:30:08 <cacheson> BitcoinForNewegg: you're only competing with the world's more powerful supercomputer
578 2011-06-21 04:30:09 <Jamesboo_> #bitcoin-mining
579 2011-06-21 04:30:11 <tcatm> BitcoinForNewegg: well, the chain has to match the rules
580 2011-06-21 04:30:15 <BitcoinForNewegg> if all it verifys is th elength... i can just rol back to a year ago and generate one block every 10 minutes
581 2011-06-21 04:30:25 jsnyder has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
582 2011-06-21 04:30:32 <tcatm> BitcoinForNewegg: and longest = sum(difficulty)
583 2011-06-21 04:30:35 <NxTitle> also you do realize by breaking bitcoin, the value will probably die
584 2011-06-21 04:30:38 <BitcoinForNewegg> oh
585 2011-06-21 04:30:43 <BitcoinForNewegg> not most blocks
586 2011-06-21 04:30:53 <BitcoinForNewegg> never mind
587 2011-06-21 04:31:05 <tcatm> doesn't make a big difference
588 2011-06-21 04:31:10 <BitcoinForNewegg> it does
589 2011-06-21 04:31:11 <BitcoinForNewegg> huge
590 2011-06-21 04:31:23 <BitcoinForNewegg> the average time to generate a block is way less than 10 minutes
591 2011-06-21 04:31:24 <tcatm> no. you can't create a longer chain with valid timestamps
592 2011-06-21 04:31:27 <BitcoinForNewegg> it always will be
593 2011-06-21 04:31:45 <Jamesboo_> #bitcoin
594 2011-06-21 04:31:47 <samlander> bitcoinbulletin: sure, if you're tycho
595 2011-06-21 04:32:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> lets say on average every 9.5 minutes a block was generated so far
596 2011-06-21 04:32:09 <samlander> and even then it sometimes takes him nearly an hour to bust a block
597 2011-06-21 04:32:09 <tcatm> either your timestamps will be invalid or difficulty will be higher
598 2011-06-21 04:32:14 <samlander> and he's got nearly half the power
599 2011-06-21 04:32:23 <BitcoinForNewegg> since theres variation in the speed it causes it to be a little less than 10 minutes
600 2011-06-21 04:32:35 <BitcoinForNewegg> i coudl start creating 10 minute apart blocks from a year ago
601 2011-06-21 04:32:51 <BitcoinForNewegg> and I woudl ahve a few percent l;onger chain
602 2011-06-21 04:32:53 <BitcoinForNewegg> always
603 2011-06-21 04:32:57 blaupunk has joined
604 2011-06-21 04:33:08 <BitcoinForNewegg> and the time stamps woudl check out as valid
605 2011-06-21 04:33:19 <BitcoinForNewegg> thats why number of blocks woudl ahve been bad
606 2011-06-21 04:33:26 <BitcoinForNewegg> but it doesnt use that so never mind
607 2011-06-21 04:33:35 <samlander> wouldnt trying to attach to an orphan chain be invalidated automatically because the chain is shorter than the official one?
608 2011-06-21 04:33:51 ezl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
609 2011-06-21 04:34:18 <tcatm> there are few blockhashes at specific heights hardcoded into the client. that's why it wouldn't work even with max(height) only
610 2011-06-21 04:35:22 <Jamesboo_> anyone know when mt gox plans to open again?
611 2011-06-21 04:35:33 <shockdiode> "any day now"
612 2011-06-21 04:35:45 <BitcoinForNewegg> any time now (+24 hours)
613 2011-06-21 04:35:59 <samlander> heh
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615 2011-06-21 04:43:46 TheZimm is now known as TheZimm|away
616 2011-06-21 04:45:14 bk128 has joined
617 2011-06-21 04:46:40 <markio> mtgox is on bitcoincharts.com
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621 2011-06-21 04:47:11 <tcatm> markio: that does not mean much :)
622 2011-06-21 04:47:32 tca` has joined
623 2011-06-21 04:47:56 <jrmithdobbs> markio: it's also on f-d
624 2011-06-21 04:47:58 sixEch0 has joined
625 2011-06-21 04:48:10 <jrmithdobbs> which will probably slow the bringup of the "claim" site
626 2011-06-21 04:48:14 <jrmithdobbs> at least it should.
627 2011-06-21 04:48:29 <n0n0> hey, so how many people looked at the bitcoind code, is there any estimate?
628 2011-06-21 04:49:36 <gmaxwell> n0n0: at least one person.
629 2011-06-21 04:49:50 Gonzago has quit ()
630 2011-06-21 04:49:50 <n0n0> so there are 54 individual commiters to the code...
631 2011-06-21 04:49:59 <n0n0> ... has there been any paid audit or something similar?
632 2011-06-21 04:50:00 <lfm> estimate? I estimate I looked at it.
633 2011-06-21 04:50:12 <gmaxwell> well then 54 plus 1 at a minimum
634 2011-06-21 04:50:39 <lfm> n0n0: paid audit? who whould pay?
635 2011-06-21 04:51:25 pogden has joined
636 2011-06-21 04:51:26 <gmaxwell> lfm: someone with millions of dollars in bitcoin, of course.
637 2011-06-21 04:51:26 <n0n0> I don't know. I would guess people with lots of BTC?
638 2011-06-21 04:51:59 linagee has quit (Changing host)
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640 2011-06-21 04:52:44 <wasabi2> Well, i'm mystified. Miner is generating and sending what looks like a perfect JSON packet, with a header structure... that matches up perfectly with what I'd think would be valid... but the pool is saying false.
641 2011-06-21 04:53:21 <lfm> wasabiprolly a byte order problem
642 2011-06-21 04:53:35 <wasabi2> Doesn't seem like it.
643 2011-06-21 04:53:56 <wasabi2> I just net grabbed the failed submission.
644 2011-06-21 04:54:44 <lfm> wasabi2 compare it to a net grab from cpuminer or something
645 2011-06-21 04:54:49 <wasabi2> I did.
646 2011-06-21 04:54:57 <wasabi2> 00000001 d915b8fd2face61c6fe22ab76cad5f46c11cebab697dbd9e0000080400000000 8fe5f19cbdd55b40db93be7ef8ae249e0b21ec6e29c833b186404de0de205cc5 4e0022ac 1a132185 007d1adf 00000080 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080020000
647 2011-06-21 04:55:01 <wasabi2> Added some spaces in there for formatting.
648 2011-06-21 04:56:26 <wasabi2> That hashes properly as far as I can tell.
649 2011-06-21 04:56:51 TheZimm has quit (away!~TheZimm@c-98-226-5-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net|Excess Flood)
650 2011-06-21 04:56:57 TheZimm has joined
651 2011-06-21 04:58:07 <wasabi2> Well, the server returned false... anyways.
652 2011-06-21 04:58:10 <wasabi2> Maybe it's counting it.
653 2011-06-21 04:59:12 Insti has joined
654 2011-06-21 04:59:40 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: that would be the end of bitcoin
655 2011-06-21 04:59:43 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: hhe
656 2011-06-21 04:59:46 <lfm> wasabi2: I think you are testing for zeros at the wrong end of the hash
657 2011-06-21 05:00:17 KMC_676 has joined
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659 2011-06-21 05:01:34 <wasabi2> I thought so to, so I grabbed a JSON get work request, waited until the block completed (by somebody else)
660 2011-06-21 05:01:34 <lfm> wasabi2 do you know what I mean?
661 2011-06-21 05:01:37 Obehsh has joined
662 2011-06-21 05:01:39 <wasabi2> Then substituted all their values into it.
663 2011-06-21 05:01:46 <wasabi2> And ran it though my code.
664 2011-06-21 05:01:50 <wasabi2> And my code generated hte same has.
665 2011-06-21 05:01:58 <wasabi2> With the 0 in the place I expect it.
666 2011-06-21 05:02:36 sixEch0 has left ("Leaving")
667 2011-06-21 05:02:37 <lfm> ya but when you compare it to the target you have missed a swap or you put the swap in the wrong place
668 2011-06-21 05:02:57 <wasabi2> I'm not even compariing it to the target at this point. Just checking that [7] is 0.
669 2011-06-21 05:03:13 <wasabi2> What I'm saying though is if I take a successful has, from block explorer, and stuff it into my code, it works.
670 2011-06-21 05:03:13 KMC_676 has quit (Quit: leaving)
671 2011-06-21 05:03:37 <lfm> wasabi2 ok I am thinking you need to test [0] in your case
672 2011-06-21 05:03:59 <wasabi2> I don't see how that can be true with what I just said.
673 2011-06-21 05:05:11 <wasabi2> Actually... I get the feeling that it's working fine, but the pool is returning false anyways.
674 2011-06-21 05:05:33 <wasabi2> I think it might be accepting them, regardless of it's return value.
675 2011-06-21 05:06:16 <wasabi2> Oh. That makes sense.
676 2011-06-21 05:06:21 <wasabi2> That what it does.
677 2011-06-21 05:07:59 phearful has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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685 2011-06-21 05:13:08 <wasabi2> I'm guessing stupid crap like the order of the fields in the JSON object don't matter? Like sending id last, and param's first?
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700 2011-06-21 05:17:41 <gmaxwell> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20427.0 < webwallets more secure than personal clients? Not so.
701 2011-06-21 05:17:47 nefario has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
702 2011-06-21 05:17:49 lfm has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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708 2011-06-21 05:24:16 <TecnoBrat> I don't know about you, but how does anyone trust a site like that?
709 2011-06-21 05:26:11 <Keefe> maybe more secure than most personal pc's, but not more secure than the smart guys' pc's
710 2011-06-21 05:27:52 TheZimm is now known as TheZimm|away
711 2011-06-21 05:29:41 fahadsadah has joined
712 2011-06-21 05:31:46 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: no snippy response to that one huh?
713 2011-06-21 05:31:48 <jrmithdobbs> thought so.
714 2011-06-21 05:31:51 lfm has joined
715 2011-06-21 05:32:32 <ramontayag> hey folks. need some help getting testbox-net working with my app. http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/ ; but before I ask questions, i wanted to know if anyone is familiar with that
716 2011-06-21 05:33:43 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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719 2011-06-21 05:34:49 <upb> lol
720 2011-06-21 05:37:04 <lfm> ramontayag: yes, some people are familiar with it, what is your question?
721 2011-06-21 05:37:09 <ramontayag> upb, since you got to get it to work in windows maybe you'll indulge me. i've got the two bitcoin daemons running; i get `getinfo` on them and they both reply.
722 2011-06-21 05:38:02 <ramontayag> and this is the commandline getinfo: ./path/to/bitcoin -datadir=/path/to/1 getinfo
723 2011-06-21 05:39:17 <ramontayag> however, when my app tries to talk to it via rpcjson, I see debug.log show this:
724 2011-06-21 05:39:46 <ramontayag> accepted connection 127.0.0.1:40462 ; PROCESSMESSAGE MESSAGESTART NOT FOUND; --- then my app just hangs and gets an execution expired later on
725 2011-06-21 05:39:56 <ramontayag> so I know it connects to the daemon, but the daemon doesn't seem to reply
726 2011-06-21 05:40:19 <lfm> ramontayag: wrong account/password?
727 2011-06-21 05:40:22 <ramontayag> by `debug.log`, i mean the debug.log of the testnet-box # 1
728 2011-06-21 05:41:02 <ramontayag> lfm, when bitcoin.conf doesn't contain an rpcuser (like the default settings of testnet-box) what's the username?
729 2011-06-21 05:41:15 <upb> sorry i havent messed with the rpc interface
730 2011-06-21 05:41:24 <lfm> dunno, just put in a rcpuser
731 2011-06-21 05:41:41 anu has joined
732 2011-06-21 05:41:54 <ramontayag> ok coz i tried that and it didn't seem to work, but i'll try it again to get the message in debug.log. :)
733 2011-06-21 05:42:23 sacredchao has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
734 2011-06-21 05:42:54 enquire has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
735 2011-06-21 05:43:22 <lfm> the daemon is looking for a start message it sez. what is you app waiting for?
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738 2011-06-21 05:43:44 <apr> hey, anybody here running or ran pushpool?
739 2011-06-21 05:44:31 <copumpkin> briareus: not rejoining?
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741 2011-06-21 05:45:32 <ramontayag> lfm, my app just asks for `get_new_address`
742 2011-06-21 05:45:50 <upb> i'm pretty sure youre talking to the bitcoin protocol port ;)
743 2011-06-21 05:45:55 <upb> not rpc
744 2011-06-21 05:46:24 <upb> ./src/main.cpp- int nHeaderSize = vRecv.GetSerializeSize(CMessageHeader());
745 2011-06-21 05:46:28 <upb> ./src/main.cpp- if (vRecv.end() - pstart < nHeaderSize)
746 2011-06-21 05:46:30 <upb> ./src/main.cpp- {
747 2011-06-21 05:46:32 <upb> ./src/main.cpp- if (vRecv.size() > nHeaderSize)
748 2011-06-21 05:46:35 <upb> ./src/main.cpp- {
749 2011-06-21 05:46:38 <upb> ./src/main.cpp: printf("\n\nPROCESSMESSAGE MESSAGESTART NOT FOUND\n\n");
750 2011-06-21 05:46:59 <ramontayag> lfm, i got my app to talk to bitcoind this way: /path/to/bitcoind -t -rpcuser=myuser -rpcpassword=123 -rpcport=18333
751 2011-06-21 05:47:07 <ramontayag> however, that only works when I'm connected to the internet
752 2011-06-21 05:47:14 <lfm> ah 83333 or 83334
753 2011-06-21 05:47:17 <ramontayag> i'd like to run my app (for testing purposes) even if i'm offline
754 2011-06-21 05:47:46 enquire has joined
755 2011-06-21 05:48:27 <ramontayag> upb, i'm not sure what you mean by 'talking to the bitcoin protocol port'?
756 2011-06-21 05:48:54 <upb> the port where the bitcoin(d) accepts connections that talk the bitcoin protocol
757 2011-06-21 05:48:57 <upb> p2p
758 2011-06-21 05:49:15 <lfm> bitoin protocol is how the bitcoind daemons talk to each other. it is a different port from the rpc port
759 2011-06-21 05:49:40 <ramontayag> ahh...
760 2011-06-21 05:49:56 <ramontayag> i get it! i see my mistake.
761 2011-06-21 05:50:15 <ramontayag> my app, in development and testing mode, tried to connect to rpcport 18333
762 2011-06-21 05:50:21 <lfm> you were trying to run em both on one port or something
763 2011-06-21 05:50:25 <ramontayag> but that's the p2p port
764 2011-06-21 05:50:30 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
765 2011-06-21 05:50:31 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
766 2011-06-21 05:52:32 <ramontayag> i kept thinking 'rpcport' whenever testbox-net mentioned the word 'port'
767 2011-06-21 05:52:52 anu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
768 2011-06-21 05:54:09 lessPlastic has joined
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770 2011-06-21 05:54:46 <lfm> ya see in the /2/bitcoin.conf there is rpcport and then there is a different port on the connect=?
771 2011-06-21 05:56:10 <lfm> the dir=1 rpcport should be 18332 I think
772 2011-06-21 05:57:00 <ramontayag> lfm, i see. thanks. :) i'm able to connect now.
773 2011-06-21 05:57:07 <lfm> wtg
774 2011-06-21 05:59:41 <Blitzboom> MtGox_Adam: will bitcoin withdrawals be possible as soon as the siteâs up?
775 2011-06-21 06:00:25 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
776 2011-06-21 06:00:32 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
777 2011-06-21 06:00:46 <lfm> Blitzboom: you'll have to change your password first!
778 2011-06-21 06:00:55 <Blitzboom> yes, of course
779 2011-06-21 06:01:04 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
780 2011-06-21 06:02:17 <Keefe> Blitzboom: yes
781 2011-06-21 06:02:32 <Keefe> they said in the interview
782 2011-06-21 06:02:33 <Koalemitos> you seriously? i guess they'll go down instant
783 2011-06-21 06:02:41 <Koalemitos> due to the activity
784 2011-06-21 06:02:55 <Blitzboom> good, this will be a proof that they havenât lost substantial amounts of coins
785 2011-06-21 06:03:05 <Keefe> with my luck, they'll open the claim page just minutes after i go to sleep
786 2011-06-21 06:03:19 <Keefe> so i'll be one of the last to withdraw
787 2011-06-21 06:03:33 <Blitzboom> iâm not sure whether iâm going to withdraw
788 2011-06-21 06:03:38 <Optimo> toasty is kevin day, no shit
789 2011-06-21 06:03:40 <Blitzboom> i want to speculate a bit :D
790 2011-06-21 06:03:43 <Optimo> that's a blast from the past
791 2011-06-21 06:03:43 JRWR has joined
792 2011-06-21 06:04:04 <Keefe> i was withdrawing btc anyway, before the crash. did some really large trades and was simply moving funds to secure storage
793 2011-06-21 06:04:24 <Keefe> i still plan to keep my usual trading amount there
794 2011-06-21 06:04:56 * Blitzboom trusts MagicalTux
795 2011-06-21 06:05:08 <Keefe> yep, so far
796 2011-06-21 06:05:09 <Optimo> I believe toasty's interpretation is acurate, however
797 2011-06-21 06:05:22 <Keefe> ?
798 2011-06-21 06:05:26 <Optimo> the resolution will require further details
799 2011-06-21 06:05:33 <jrmithdobbs> toasty needs to shut the fuck up or he's going to get weev'ed
800 2011-06-21 06:05:55 <Optimo> but he says the truth
801 2011-06-21 06:06:00 <Keefe> ya i do believe this will be more complex and take longer than they might expect
802 2011-06-21 06:06:06 mrtnt1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
803 2011-06-21 06:06:12 <Optimo> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20207.0
804 2011-06-21 06:06:21 <Blitzboom> legitimate mtgox trades are a joke when you canât even enter orders because the site is overloaded
805 2011-06-21 06:06:24 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: doesn't matter. standard of evidence for computer crimes in the US is laughable
806 2011-06-21 06:06:34 <jrmithdobbs> Optimo: he needs to shut the fuck up and get legal advice.
807 2011-06-21 06:06:36 <Keefe> fortunately i expect to be one of the first to get in, since my password is long strong and unique
808 2011-06-21 06:06:40 <Optimo> jrmithdobbs, no doubt
809 2011-06-21 06:06:54 <Optimo> but it's demanding clarification either way
810 2011-06-21 06:07:39 JRWR has quit (Client Quit)
811 2011-06-21 06:08:00 wasabi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
812 2011-06-21 06:10:56 <n0n0> so... mtgox is down again, completely?
813 2011-06-21 06:11:15 <jrmithdobbs> n0n0: you're welcome
814 2011-06-21 06:11:37 <upb> haha
815 2011-06-21 06:11:53 <upb> nah it loads
816 2011-06-21 06:11:56 <n0n0> there has been a mention of this police report he filed against that alleged hacker, is there a proof of that, somewhere?
817 2011-06-21 06:12:12 <jrmithdobbs> n0n0: there's not even proof he's in possession of the coins
818 2011-06-21 06:12:32 <jrmithdobbs> there's nothing but misinformation and bad attempted PR coverups
819 2011-06-21 06:12:35 <Blitzboom> who, the hacker or mtgox?
820 2011-06-21 06:12:42 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux
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822 2011-06-21 06:13:00 <n0n0> what is the best page to get an overview?
823 2011-06-21 06:13:12 <n0n0> the forum is full of strange conspiracy and flames
824 2011-06-21 06:13:15 <n0n0> i do not really trust mtgox any longer
825 2011-06-21 06:13:30 <jrmithdobbs> n0n0: https://twitter.com/#!/jrmithdobbs/status/83039516335681536
826 2011-06-21 06:13:41 <Blitzboom> i will, as soon as they allow bitcoin withdrawals
827 2011-06-21 06:14:24 <n0n0> trust em?
828 2011-06-21 06:14:47 <n0n0> well.
829 2011-06-21 06:15:09 andrew12 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
830 2011-06-21 06:15:12 <n0n0> i think any bitcoin exchange would be advised now to proof from time to time that they have the majority of bitcoins in their possession
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832 2011-06-21 06:17:52 <gmaxwell> n0n0++
833 2011-06-21 06:17:58 wasabi has joined
834 2011-06-21 06:19:22 <n0n0> hmm.
835 2011-06-21 06:19:39 <n0n0> that 2nd post is from you in the thread, gmaxwell. on that site they have lots of hashes.
836 2011-06-21 06:19:50 <n0n0> i tried to grep a few in the accounts.csv, without any hits
837 2011-06-21 06:20:06 <doublec> how would an exchange prove they have the coins?
838 2011-06-21 06:20:12 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,blocks
839 2011-06-21 06:20:14 <gribble> 132233
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841 2011-06-21 06:20:43 <ramontayag> lfm, i'm able to sent some coin from box 1 to box 2. box 2 lists them as received, but they don't get confirmed. how do I enable confirmations?
842 2011-06-21 06:21:01 <n0n0> doublec, have a private key with which they can sign messages that belongs to them.
843 2011-06-21 06:21:28 <n0n0> sign some kind statement that they are who they are.
844 2011-06-21 06:21:29 <doublec> n0n0: how does that prove they have the coins?
845 2011-06-21 06:21:40 <n0n0> sign that statement with the private key that belongs to the coins, then.
846 2011-06-21 06:22:18 <doublec> that would require them to consolidate their coins into one address often
847 2011-06-21 06:22:39 <n0n0> yep. but what is the deal?
848 2011-06-21 06:22:53 <gmaxwell> doublec: they could produce a zillion signatures .. it would be a few lines changed to the existing signature rpc patch.
849 2011-06-21 06:22:58 <n0n0> they should take most coins out of the exchange anyways.
850 2011-06-21 06:23:05 <gmaxwell> "sign this message with every key in this wallet"
851 2011-06-21 06:23:06 <n0n0> which i hope mtgox did. but I still doubt it.
852 2011-06-21 06:23:23 wizer has quit ()
853 2011-06-21 06:23:38 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: or they could just dump the damned things and sign with openssl
854 2011-06-21 06:23:45 <n0n0> .. and my question to gmaxwell is still which hash has been posted where because of a sqlinjection attack. i do not see any real proof o that.
855 2011-06-21 06:23:53 <gmaxwell> Or if they used the type-2 determinstic wallets then disclosing the address key would disclose all their future addressess.
856 2011-06-21 06:24:18 <gmaxwell> n0n0: huh?
857 2011-06-21 06:24:21 moe0 has joined
858 2011-06-21 06:24:30 <n0n0> well, i do not get it.
859 2011-06-21 06:24:41 <n0n0> that link you posted on the site. i was assuming those to be md5s of the passwords in the accounts.csv?
860 2011-06-21 06:24:44 <gmaxwell> n0n0: I"Not mentioned here is that fact that dozens of MTGOX hashed passwords were quietly disclosed on a hash cracking forum on Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:21 am
861 2011-06-21 06:24:47 <gmaxwell> (http://forum.insidepro.com/viewtopic.php?t=9124&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75&sid=1a9e31567fe815c0eea63c40c39fb707 post by "georgeclooney")"
862 2011-06-21 06:25:01 <ramontayag> hey folks, i'm using testnet-box. i can send coin from box 1 to box 2, but box 2 doesn't confirm any of them. how do I enable confirmations?
863 2011-06-21 06:25:02 <gmaxwell> n0n0: yes, all but 4 or 5 of them are in accounts.csv
864 2011-06-21 06:25:07 gjs278 has joined
865 2011-06-21 06:25:09 <n0n0> ep.
866 2011-06-21 06:25:13 <n0n0> s/ep./yep
867 2011-06-21 06:25:21 <ramontayag> i'm asking because box 2's balance stays at 0.0
868 2011-06-21 06:25:25 <n0n0> hmm. must have hit these 5.
869 2011-06-21 06:25:38 <gmaxwell> n0n0: they include the first couple iirc.
870 2011-06-21 06:26:16 <n0n0> are there different account.csvs floating around?! can you give me an example hash from that page that is in the csv?
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873 2011-06-21 06:29:08 IoWn3rU has joined
874 2011-06-21 06:29:24 <gmaxwell> n0n0: yea, so ... meh. phantomcircuit is the one who found this.
875 2011-06-21 06:29:35 <gmaxwell> (I guess he googled one of the hashes from the accounts.csv)
876 2011-06-21 06:32:02 <n0n0> yeah. just googled my hash. actually also found it in earlier posts about mtgox security.
877 2011-06-21 06:32:03 Katapult has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
878 2011-06-21 06:32:10 <n0n0> ... and in rainbow tables.
879 2011-06-21 06:32:26 testuser444 has joined
880 2011-06-21 06:32:47 <n0n0> heh.
881 2011-06-21 06:32:49 rowlo has joined
882 2011-06-21 06:33:08 <n0n0> maybe that is an idea for a website? just got a interesting idea:
883 2011-06-21 06:33:19 Katapult has joined
884 2011-06-21 06:33:52 SomeoneWeird has joined
885 2011-06-21 06:33:53 <hachque> hi everyone, we're working on an architecture for a secure exchange system
886 2011-06-21 06:34:00 <n0n0> make a warning service that tells you that a hash has been published by automatically checking for hashes on google searches and then send an email as soon as something comes up.
887 2011-06-21 06:34:08 <hachque> it would be appreciated if we had a few people look over it (so far) to make sure we aren't missing anything yet
888 2011-06-21 06:34:18 <hachque> Issue: how about BTC funds stored in the pool wallet?
889 2011-06-21 06:34:19 <hachque> gah
890 2011-06-21 06:34:24 <hachque> stupid Ctrl-C
891 2011-06-21 06:34:29 <hachque> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dHqDQM3IWFCLBkCAhJQJNijXAtzJ-S10lJnHwyZUpJY/edit?hl=en_GB&authkey=CM65pawC
892 2011-06-21 06:36:06 Stellar has joined
893 2011-06-21 06:37:47 <n0n0> hachque, hmm. I do not get it, but I am no expert.. for the next exchange I like to have a nicely organized whitepaper as bitcoin.pdf :)
894 2011-06-21 06:38:22 <n0n0> i think separating all this stupid php scripting from the core exchange protocol would be a good start.
895 2011-06-21 06:39:03 mologie has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
896 2011-06-21 06:39:04 <n0n0> and pgp signed orders
897 2011-06-21 06:39:43 enquire has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
898 2011-06-21 06:40:17 DD- has joined
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900 2011-06-21 06:41:49 enquire has joined
901 2011-06-21 06:42:02 <n0n0> hachque, I think you go into deep technical details too early. like that you want to use a psql db. I rather like to have a more abstract scheme first, for example a way of proving that all coins are available
902 2011-06-21 06:42:28 <n0n0> (as I said and asked MT repeatedly)
903 2011-06-21 06:43:07 <jrmithdobbs> hachque: i think your basic premise is flawed
904 2011-06-21 06:43:26 <jrmithdobbs> encryption in the database means the software accessing the database still needs the keys
905 2011-06-21 06:43:37 hamush has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
906 2011-06-21 06:43:56 <jrmithdobbs> and since most leaks of database data will come through the software accessing it ....
907 2011-06-21 06:45:07 <n0n0> well.maybe i am ignorant and it is years since i last did any web development. but i see mtgox now as a webpage where there are these icky php scripts that have cover the full stack of complexity of the exchange, from the top (web UI stuff), down to the technical details of doing trades. I think there should be a clear separation and there should be clear, watertight specification of an open exchange protocol.
908 2011-06-21 06:45:23 n0n0 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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911 2011-06-21 06:46:32 larsivi has joined
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913 2011-06-21 06:46:36 <hachque> jrmithdobbs: the server does not store the master key
914 2011-06-21 06:46:41 n0n0 has joined
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916 2011-06-21 06:46:58 <hachque> so the encrypted data is useless to the server without the master key being sent via POST over SSL by the client
917 2011-06-21 06:47:02 <hachque> and it never stored to disk
918 2011-06-21 06:47:09 n0n0 has joined
919 2011-06-21 06:47:21 <hachque> so an attacker on the server will not be able to transact any bitcoins
920 2011-06-21 06:47:24 n0n0 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
921 2011-06-21 06:48:48 n0n0 has joined
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923 2011-06-21 06:49:33 Donald__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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926 2011-06-21 06:50:02 <jrmithdobbs> hachque: csrf.
927 2011-06-21 06:50:35 <cuddlefish> http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/2919149-post8.html
928 2011-06-21 06:50:37 <cuddlefish> trolololol
929 2011-06-21 06:51:13 hallowworld has joined
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931 2011-06-21 06:51:36 <hachque> jrmithdobbs: how? any other party that wants to request the coins be sent needs to know the master key
932 2011-06-21 06:51:39 hahuang65 has joined
933 2011-06-21 06:51:59 <hachque> which is stored nowhere except in the user's head (and if they write it down or store it on their computer, well, nothing can be done about that)
934 2011-06-21 06:52:12 <hachque> even another site requesting the coins be transferred would need to know the master key
935 2011-06-21 06:52:20 <jrmithdobbs> hachque: i only did a cursory read
936 2011-06-21 06:52:30 <jrmithdobbs> hachque: missed that part
937 2011-06-21 06:54:08 Count_Niedar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
938 2011-06-21 06:54:32 Niedar has joined
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941 2011-06-21 06:55:26 <jrmithdobbs> hachque: i'll read more closely after sleep
942 2011-06-21 06:55:35 airfox has quit (Quit: Bye!)
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945 2011-06-21 06:57:51 <ramontayag> i'm trying to send coin from client 1 to client 2 in testnet-box. how do you confirm these transactions?
946 2011-06-21 06:58:26 airfox has joined
947 2011-06-21 06:59:15 <BTCTrader> thats a good one cuddlefish
948 2011-06-21 06:59:56 Donald__ has joined
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950 2011-06-21 07:00:55 <shockdiode> lol cuddlefish
951 2011-06-21 07:01:29 Jefff has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
952 2011-06-21 07:01:42 moe0 has joined
953 2011-06-21 07:02:10 <mtrlt> ramontayag: find some blox
954 2011-06-21 07:02:13 <wumpus> ramontayag: mine on your testnet in a box
955 2011-06-21 07:02:34 jlgaddis_ is now known as jlgaddis
956 2011-06-21 07:03:21 hamush has joined
957 2011-06-21 07:05:43 <ramontayag> mtrlt, wumpus - generate coins you mean? i see thank you.
958 2011-06-21 07:06:00 <mtrlt> yes
959 2011-06-21 07:09:16 omes_ is now known as omes
960 2011-06-21 07:11:50 <Keefe> ramontayag: probably nobody, or very few, are mining in testnet
961 2011-06-21 07:12:18 <Keefe> the difficulty may not have adjusted low enough to compensate
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965 2011-06-21 07:15:45 abragin has joined
966 2011-06-21 07:16:32 <wumpus> its his own testnet, so no one is mining at all
967 2011-06-21 07:18:15 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
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971 2011-06-21 07:23:57 zamgo has joined
972 2011-06-21 07:23:58 <Keefe> ah
973 2011-06-21 07:24:46 <jgarzik> the average age of forum posters is apparently < 20
974 2011-06-21 07:24:49 <jgarzik> maybe < 15
975 2011-06-21 07:26:37 <SomeoneWeird> really? 0_o
976 2011-06-21 07:26:48 <wumpus> you should really remove the forum link from the official bitcoin site
977 2011-06-21 07:26:51 hahuang65 has quit ()
978 2011-06-21 07:26:52 <wumpus> it's just a troll sesspool
979 2011-06-21 07:27:27 <wumpus> sirius better just register bitcointrollforums.com to put it
980 2011-06-21 07:30:13 <taub> jgarzik, thats the feel im getting too
981 2011-06-21 07:32:07 blueadept has quit (Quit: Leaving)
982 2011-06-21 07:32:20 <ersi> Going on the forum is like gluing your hand to your face
983 2011-06-21 07:32:25 <ersi> forever a facepalm
984 2011-06-21 07:32:38 <wumpus> just like the #bitcoin channel here, btw
985 2011-06-21 07:32:49 testuser444 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
986 2011-06-21 07:33:06 <ersi> yeah, heh.
987 2011-06-21 07:33:22 <sipa> ersi: haha
988 2011-06-21 07:33:41 BTCTrader has quit (Quit: BTCTrader)
989 2011-06-21 07:34:39 <SomeoneWeird> taub; that is true, for some, seeing as im <18; but that doesn't mean I don't know my stuff, or am a spammer.
990 2011-06-21 07:34:46 <wumpus> but really why do we link this forum at all? it's not about the beta-stage open source project called bitcoin at all, just about all kinds of bullshit around it
991 2011-06-21 07:35:36 <AlonzoTG> more like alpha. =|
992 2011-06-21 07:35:38 <sipa> for technical support it is useful
993 2011-06-21 07:36:02 <sipa> with heavy moderation
994 2011-06-21 07:36:03 <wumpus> I propose we make a new technical-support only forum
995 2011-06-21 07:36:08 <wumpus> and nuke this one
996 2011-06-21 07:36:30 <wumpus> a forum about the project, and only the project
997 2011-06-21 07:36:41 o_0oo has joined
998 2011-06-21 07:37:01 <ersi> I don't like the idea of nuking/pruning it all. In worst case scenario, make it read only or archive it.
999 2011-06-21 07:37:03 <wumpus> this current forum is not useful for technical support, only for catching viruses
1000 2011-06-21 07:37:11 <ersi> It has 'historic content'
1001 2011-06-21 07:37:19 <ersi> Even if there's a lot of bullshit
1002 2011-06-21 07:37:37 <wumpus> that's fine, just archive it somewhere, or move it to a new domain, all good with me
1003 2011-06-21 07:37:50 <Keefe> you can't catch a virus if you don't download and run stuff people post
1004 2011-06-21 07:37:58 <ersi> just wanted to stick it in, so that no one just assumed "throw it away"
1005 2011-06-21 07:38:03 <wumpus> Keefe: yeah you don't really need to tell me that :)
1006 2011-06-21 07:38:12 <wumpus> but from the viewpoint of the end user...
1007 2011-06-21 07:38:40 <Keefe> weed out the dummies :p
1008 2011-06-21 07:39:20 <Keefe> if they aren't smart enough to not run unknown stuff, they don't belong using bitcoin
1009 2011-06-21 07:39:42 <Keefe> eh, nvm me
1010 2011-06-21 07:39:49 Phoebus has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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1015 2011-06-21 07:41:47 <wumpus> Keefe: I don't agree with that, we should simply maintain a friendly community
1016 2011-06-21 07:42:51 <ersi> Indeed
1017 2011-06-21 07:42:56 <wumpus> if people do dumb things, point them out, but troll them into the floor
1018 2011-06-21 07:43:01 Breign has quit ()
1019 2011-06-21 07:44:30 TheZimm has quit (away!~TheZimm@c-98-226-5-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net|Excess Flood)
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1022 2011-06-21 07:44:56 <wumpus> who controls the bitcoin.org website?
1023 2011-06-21 07:45:27 <SomeoneWeird> probably Gavin
1024 2011-06-21 07:45:35 <SomeoneWeird> or theymos or someone
1025 2011-06-21 07:45:48 <wumpus> okay thanks
1026 2011-06-21 07:46:04 <sipa> sirius and theymos
1027 2011-06-21 07:46:20 <wumpus> that's the forums, but also the front page itself?
1028 2011-06-21 07:48:58 TomyBoy3G has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1033 2011-06-21 07:52:54 <sipa> wumpus: front page is different, and includes gavin and jeff
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1039 2011-06-21 08:03:08 Tycale_ is now known as TYcale
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1050 2011-06-21 08:19:05 Geebus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1051 2011-06-21 08:20:02 anddam has joined
1052 2011-06-21 08:20:09 <anddam> hi
1053 2011-06-21 08:20:21 neurochasm has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1055 2011-06-21 08:21:17 <sacarlson> hachque: sounds like your looking to setup p2p escrow?
1056 2011-06-21 08:21:41 dissipate has joined
1057 2011-06-21 08:21:52 <hachque> sacarlson: an exchange
1058 2011-06-21 08:22:20 <sacarlson> hachque: if we had p2p escrow we wouldn't need an exchange
1059 2011-06-21 08:22:59 <sacarlson> hachque: or at least it would setup the secure transaction part of your exchange
1060 2011-06-21 08:24:06 <sacarlson> hachque: maybe with something like one of these bitcoin scirpts http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8821.0
1061 2011-06-21 08:25:08 <sacarlson> hachque: why not just hold deposits in the exchange with an escrow ballance
1062 2011-06-21 08:25:29 tonik has joined
1063 2011-06-21 08:25:49 larsivi has joined
1064 2011-06-21 08:26:43 <hachque> sacarlson: yeah this is an exchange, p2p escrow there's no way to handle like trading USD -> BitCoin (trustworthily if that's a word and reliably)
1065 2011-06-21 08:27:25 Tick-Tock has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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1067 2011-06-21 08:30:48 <sacarlson> hachque: why not the usd guy puts his usd in an escrow the bitcoin guy sends him a p2p open escrowed transaction. they both see what they want on each side the funds are released
1068 2011-06-21 08:31:17 d1g1t4l has joined
1069 2011-06-21 08:31:20 <hachque> because that's an overly simplistic view of a very complex situation
1070 2011-06-21 08:32:08 somuchwin has joined
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1073 2011-06-21 08:33:02 <sacarlson> hachque: you can write more complex contract scripts if needed
1074 2011-06-21 08:33:44 <hachque> well we're not looking for p2p escrow
1075 2011-06-21 08:34:06 <hachque> we're looking to set up an exchange in which users can not have trades place on their behalf if the exchange is compromised
1076 2011-06-21 08:34:20 Maged has joined
1077 2011-06-21 08:35:59 <K_F> typically that would be covered by introducing a clearing house
1078 2011-06-21 08:37:36 <K_F> but it should also work for the escrow suggestion, as if the exchange is comprimised but not the wallet
1079 2011-06-21 08:37:37 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1080 2011-06-21 08:37:45 <K_F> the money will never show up on the escrow account and the transaction fail
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1090 2011-06-21 08:48:48 <vegard> er
1091 2011-06-21 08:49:06 <vegard> I ran strings on blk0001.dat and one of the first strings are: EThe Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
1092 2011-06-21 08:49:11 <vegard> what's that supposed to mean?
1093 2011-06-21 08:49:14 nukelies-com has quit ()
1094 2011-06-21 08:49:46 sacarlson has joined
1095 2011-06-21 08:50:06 <vegard> one of the first strings is* I suppose
1096 2011-06-21 08:50:30 norrec has joined
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1098 2011-06-21 08:52:03 <Keefe> google it. there's probably an explanation on the bitcoin forum or something
1099 2011-06-21 08:52:38 <polipie> i think it was one of the main reasons why the bitcoins were created
1100 2011-06-21 08:52:45 <vegard> oh, yeah. He left some clues about why he is doing this project with the inclusion of the following text in the Genesis block, "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks".
1101 2011-06-21 08:52:53 <vegard> (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto)
1102 2011-06-21 08:53:27 pierce has joined
1103 2011-06-21 08:55:00 <sipa> vegard: it's a proof that he didn't start working on the block chain before 2009/01/03
1104 2011-06-21 08:55:50 <vegard> yeah, nice.
1105 2011-06-21 08:56:24 TD has joined
1106 2011-06-21 08:57:30 zDark has joined
1107 2011-06-21 08:57:43 <vegard> what's the best way to extract data from the block chain? I tried bitcointools (python) but the API seems really clunky
1108 2011-06-21 08:58:41 <ramontayag> with testnet-box, how do I confirm transactions faster? i run integration tests on the webapp i'm making and would like bitcoin confirmations to be instant so that the tests don't take too long
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1111 2011-06-21 09:01:01 <doublec> use a fast gpu to mine?
1112 2011-06-21 09:01:20 <wumpus> ramontayag: put more mining power in it, or somehow change the client to use a fixed very low difficulty
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1114 2011-06-21 09:04:44 <ramontayag> wumpus, i 'll need to change the difficulty then (i'll read more about this) because i can't expect all developers that work on this app to be able to mine quickly.
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1116 2011-06-21 09:05:26 <wumpus> ramontayag: yes that's also the most robust solution, as after a certain amount of blocks it normally readjusts the difficulty so that there will be one block per 10 minutes again
1117 2011-06-21 09:05:37 gjs278 has joined
1118 2011-06-21 09:06:25 <ramontayag> wumpus, i did a quick search on setting difficulty, however, i found nothing on google regarding changing it. can you point me to the right direction?
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1120 2011-06-21 09:07:28 <wumpus> ramontayag: i don't know where it is defined in the code either
1121 2011-06-21 09:08:40 payback has joined
1122 2011-06-21 09:08:47 <payback> Hi all
1123 2011-06-21 09:08:51 <payback> i have a small question
1124 2011-06-21 09:09:16 <sipa> wumpus: have you seen the wallet class patch in mainline?
1125 2011-06-21 09:09:31 <payback> i'm trying to start mining with an AMD cpu & Nvidia graphics card. For some reason it only mines with the CPU. Any1 an idea?
1126 2011-06-21 09:09:36 <wumpus> sipa: not yet
1127 2011-06-21 09:10:03 <sipa> wumpus: you'll probably need to do some changes to your code
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1129 2011-06-21 09:11:11 <ramontayag> wumpus, ah so i'll need to define in the source of the bitcoin client
1130 2011-06-21 09:11:34 <ramontayag> sounds like too big a hoop to jump through just for integration testing
1131 2011-06-21 09:11:40 Pinion has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
1132 2011-06-21 09:11:52 <wumpus> sipa: ok, did a lot change?
1133 2011-06-21 09:12:05 loopyduck has joined
1134 2011-06-21 09:12:11 <loopyduck> I have 0 bitcoins fml 1GnghKduAFH3yr6DtYguh816xRC1Xs9UNB
1135 2011-06-21 09:12:15 loopyduck has left ()
1136 2011-06-21 09:12:49 <sipa> wumpus: it's quite a change yes, it introduces a CWallet, and quite some code from main and db was moved there
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1138 2011-06-21 09:13:18 <sipa> wumpus: init.cpp now defines pwalletMain, a pointer to the "main" wallet (the one used in GUI and RPC calls)
1139 2011-06-21 09:13:35 <payback> hi all, i'm having a small issue. I have an AMD cpu with an Nvidia Gefore 8800 GT graphics card. For some reason i can only mine with my CPU ?
1140 2011-06-21 09:13:39 <wumpus> sipa: right, so the interface was a bit cleaned up
1141 2011-06-21 09:13:43 <wumpus> sipa: sounds good
1142 2011-06-21 09:13:43 <sipa> wumpus: but depending on how your code is built up, maybe you can have a CWallet* in a field in your gui classes, and use that
1143 2011-06-21 09:14:01 <sipa> wumpus: and then initialize that to pwalletMain when creating it
1144 2011-06-21 09:14:25 <sipa> payback: #bitcoin-mining
1145 2011-06-21 09:14:50 <wumpus> sipa: yes, that's no problem, I'll just put a pointer to the wallet in the client model, I suppose it is so that it'll be possible to support multiple wallets later on?
1146 2011-06-21 09:14:55 <payback> sipa, thx
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1148 2011-06-21 09:14:59 <sipa> wumpus: exactly
1149 2011-06-21 09:15:11 <sipa> wumpus: and to separate the responsibilities
1150 2011-06-21 09:15:37 <sipa> it's not 100% done correctly yet, though
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1152 2011-06-21 09:15:56 <wumpus> sipa: well I guess it's a start in moving from 1 set of global state
1153 2011-06-21 09:16:22 <sipa> that was the point, i plan to separate network and blockchain handling to separate components as well
1154 2011-06-21 09:16:28 <wumpus> sipa: the manual mutex locking is also annoyting
1155 2011-06-21 09:16:32 <sipa> indeed
1156 2011-06-21 09:17:52 <wumpus> better would be to move to a (nearly) no shared state threading model.. then again, I suppose there are more pressing concerns right now like wallet security :)
1157 2011-06-21 09:18:03 <sipa> uhu
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1160 2011-06-21 09:19:40 <sipa> in the wx code it was hard to not use a global CWallet, as it doesn't really have a separation of gui and model code
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1162 2011-06-21 09:22:51 <ramontayag> looking at the api, i can't seem to find a way to list all transactions of a certain address. is this possible?
1163 2011-06-21 09:22:54 <wumpus> yep in my gui it will not be extremely hard to support multiple wallets
1164 2011-06-21 09:23:55 <wumpus> we'll need to decide how we want to expose it to the user, though, without complicating it unneccesarily
1165 2011-06-21 09:26:01 <briareus> anyone not busy enough for a moment to describe settxfee <amount> to me? I googled around and read some notes, but I don't quite _get_ it.
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1167 2011-06-21 09:26:51 <sipa> wumpus: one thing that's lacking is events
1168 2011-06-21 09:27:05 <sipa> now there is just a global repaintmainwindow or what it's called
1169 2011-06-21 09:27:11 <sipa> and a vWalletUpdated
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1172 2011-06-21 09:28:25 <sipa> at some time there will need to be a walletlistener that can be implemented by gui's
1173 2011-06-21 09:28:29 <wumpus> sipe: yes, there is very little in terms of notifications, I don't even use the global repaint event, I do use vWalletUpdated
1174 2011-06-21 09:29:03 <wumpus> sipa: boost signal/slots come to mind
1175 2011-06-21 09:29:23 <wumpus> sipa: though the multithreading does complicate it
1176 2011-06-21 09:29:35 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1177 2011-06-21 09:29:40 <wumpus> and the mutexes...
1178 2011-06-21 09:29:42 <sipa> wumpus: i must admit, i am not really a C++ programmer (though a lot of experience with C, Java, Haskell, ...), so i know far from all possibilities boost gives
1179 2011-06-21 09:30:18 <wumpus> sending a notification to another thread that the wallet is updated while holding the mutex will be asking for deadlocks... that's also why I didn't touch that code at all, and simply use polling at the moment
1180 2011-06-21 09:30:54 <wumpus> a
1181 2011-06-21 09:31:19 <wumpus> signals/slots are useful because they for writing very loosely coupled code (ie, the opposite of what we have now :p)
1182 2011-06-21 09:33:00 sytse has joined
1183 2011-06-21 09:35:43 <sacarlson> ramontayag: use a different crypto chain like weeds
1184 2011-06-21 09:35:52 Nexus_7 has joined
1185 2011-06-21 09:35:54 Nexus7 has quit (Disconnected by services)
1186 2011-06-21 09:36:01 Nexus_7 is now known as Nexus7
1187 2011-06-21 09:37:47 <CheapScotsman> miners: anyone get the "error during login, new database lookup in xxx seconds" error before?
1188 2011-06-21 09:40:14 <ramontayag> sacarlson, thanks. i've never heard of that. i'll do some research
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1190 2011-06-21 09:42:30 <ramontayag> sacarlson, seems that it's different currency altogether?
1191 2011-06-21 09:43:48 <sipa> ramontayag: define a "transaction of a certain address" ?
1192 2011-06-21 09:48:07 <ramontayag> sipa, like listtransactions, but show the ones with a certain address only.
1193 2011-06-21 09:50:50 BlueMatt has joined
1194 2011-06-21 09:52:28 <wumpus> ramontayag: there's labels for that
1195 2011-06-21 09:52:39 <wumpus> ramontayag: "accounts" I mean
1196 2011-06-21 09:53:33 wolfspraul has joined
1197 2011-06-21 09:55:11 <ramontayag> wumpus, hmm.. ok, reason i asked is because i'm building an app where every new order has its own bitcoin address. but they're all in the "" account. do you suggest i have a new account per order instead?
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1207 2011-06-21 09:56:57 <ramontayag> i looked into this briefly but found no command to create a new account via the api either
1208 2011-06-21 09:58:09 <wumpus> ramontayag: yes
1209 2011-06-21 09:58:28 <wumpus> ramontayag: an account is basically just a label associated with one or more receiving addresses
1210 2011-06-21 09:58:32 <taub> developers developers developers developers
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1219 2011-06-21 10:05:55 payback has joined
1220 2011-06-21 10:06:02 <payback> hi all again :)
1221 2011-06-21 10:06:12 <ramontayag> ok i get it.. you don't create accounts, you create a new address in a certain account, and that account will be "created" too
1222 2011-06-21 10:06:28 <payback> is it possible to connect 5 graphic cards with eachother?
1223 2011-06-21 10:06:39 <sipa> payback: why would you want to?
1224 2011-06-21 10:06:48 <sipa> if it is for mining, you don't connect them at all
1225 2011-06-21 10:07:00 <payback> it is for mining
1226 2011-06-21 10:07:24 <sipa> if you find a motherboard you can attach 5 gpu's to, do so
1227 2011-06-21 10:07:32 <payback> i want this config : 6990x3
1228 2011-06-21 10:07:45 <BlueMatt> dont know whos logs those are, but at least they work more than the old link
1229 2011-06-21 10:07:46 <payback> don't understand much of it yet
1230 2011-06-21 10:07:51 <cacheson> payback: try #bitcoin-mining
1231 2011-06-21 10:07:54 anddam has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1232 2011-06-21 10:08:01 <sipa> payback: make sure you do understand befor investing in it
1233 2011-06-21 10:08:10 <payback> as so it seems ^^
1234 2011-06-21 10:08:30 anddam has joined
1235 2011-06-21 10:13:44 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, google is a wonderful thing
1236 2011-06-21 10:18:47 hallowworld has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1237 2011-06-21 10:19:48 <amiller> i'm proposing a riddle
1238 2011-06-21 10:19:58 <amiller> does anyone think you can take two bitcoin private keys
1239 2011-06-21 10:20:05 <amiller> compile them into a little encrypted program
1240 2011-06-21 10:20:28 <amiller> so that you can execute the program (giving it a txout as input)
1241 2011-06-21 10:20:43 <amiller> but the only thing it can do is output a signed bitcoin transaction trading its balance from one address to the other
1242 2011-06-21 10:21:02 <amiller> looking inside the program to find the private keys is impossible, it's encrypted effectively to prevent that
1243 2011-06-21 10:21:06 <cacheson> amiller: sounds like a DRM scheme
1244 2011-06-21 10:21:10 <sipa> indeed
1245 2011-06-21 10:21:17 <sipa> the attacker = the user
1246 2011-06-21 10:21:19 <sipa> won't work
1247 2011-06-21 10:21:36 <amiller> interested in why you think not
1248 2011-06-21 10:21:47 <cacheson> amiller: they need the key to run it
1249 2011-06-21 10:21:48 <sipa> you say it's encrypted
1250 2011-06-21 10:21:53 <sipa> which key?
1251 2011-06-21 10:22:03 <amiller> both private keys to address A and address B
1252 2011-06-21 10:22:17 <sipa> what will you encrypt it with, so that their computer can execute it, but not see the key?
1253 2011-06-21 10:22:28 <amiller> they're effectively compiled into a program which builds tx from A to B or B to A depending on the input (a txout with one or the other)
1254 2011-06-21 10:22:42 <sipa> or better: what is the secret you're hiding from the user, if you give them the program itself?
1255 2011-06-21 10:22:49 <sipa> which needs access to the keys
1256 2011-06-21 10:22:52 LanceRushing has joined
1257 2011-06-21 10:22:57 <amiller> 1) i would use lattice based Homomorphic Encryption http://crypto.stanford.edu/craig/craig-thesis.pdf
1258 2011-06-21 10:23:17 <amiller> well the keys are built right into the program
1259 2011-06-21 10:23:17 <sipa> then they still need the private key
1260 2011-06-21 10:23:24 <amiller> the point isn't that the person who runs the program is a user
1261 2011-06-21 10:23:28 <amiller> but that they're peers in the network
1262 2011-06-21 10:23:30 <amiller> anyone can run the program
1263 2011-06-21 10:23:35 <sipa> doesn't matter what form they are in, the program will contain the private keys
1264 2011-06-21 10:23:37 <iera> amiller: if you can get that done you are a hero
1265 2011-06-21 10:23:38 <amiller> but all it can do is one thing
1266 2011-06-21 10:23:57 <sipa> you can't "reduce" the key so you can only use it for certain transactions
1267 2011-06-21 10:24:27 bnzdg has joined
1268 2011-06-21 10:24:41 <amiller> there's an interesting result in cryptography that says you can http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/07/homomorphic_enc.html
1269 2011-06-21 10:24:50 d4de has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1270 2011-06-21 10:25:45 <amiller> most people are excited about this because it means you may be able to run programs on Amazon EC2 that no one can see
1271 2011-06-21 10:25:46 <sipa> amiller: from what i understand from it, homomorphic encryption would allow you to write a program that signs a transaction without knowing the transaction
1272 2011-06-21 10:26:00 <sipa> it does not allow you to sign something without knowing the private key
1273 2011-06-21 10:26:12 <amiller> the private key would be hardcoded in the program
1274 2011-06-21 10:26:17 <sipa> *sigh*
1275 2011-06-21 10:26:17 <cacheson> amiller: a computer can't run a program without knowing the instructions and data that it contains
1276 2011-06-21 10:26:32 <sipa> if the computer can execute it, the key needs to be in there
1277 2011-06-21 10:26:37 <cacheson> amiller: if my computer can run your program, I can look at it with a hex editor and extract the keys
1278 2011-06-21 10:26:39 <sipa> and the user can do anything his computer can
1279 2011-06-21 10:26:57 <sipa> it may be there in obfuscated form
1280 2011-06-21 10:27:00 <amiller> the key is entirely mixed up with the other operations
1281 2011-06-21 10:27:01 <sipa> or encrypted form
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1283 2011-06-21 10:27:08 <amiller> cryptographically entangled with the operations
1284 2011-06-21 10:27:19 <cacheson> amiller: alright, now you're just making stuff up
1285 2011-06-21 10:27:21 <sipa> amiller: but the computer can execute it
1286 2011-06-21 10:27:28 <sipa> amiller: and if the computer can, so can its owner
1287 2011-06-21 10:27:58 <sipa> at some point you need to have the hash of your transaction, and perform some operations that result in a signature for this hash
1288 2011-06-21 10:28:13 <sipa> if i intervene at this point, and replace the memory location the hash is stored it with my own
1289 2011-06-21 10:28:23 <sipa> i can make that program sign anything i want
1290 2011-06-21 10:30:00 molecular has joined
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1294 2011-06-21 10:30:32 <wumpus> homomorphic encryption is an interesting idea, but mostly a theoretical curiosity at the moment
1295 2011-06-21 10:30:51 <amiller> what makes it theoretical
1296 2011-06-21 10:30:59 <amiller> i can't tell how far away it is from being implementable
1297 2011-06-21 10:31:00 <sipa> it just doesn't apply here
1298 2011-06-21 10:31:04 <cacheson> amiller: did you read what you linked us to?
1299 2011-06-21 10:31:35 CheapScotsman has left ("Leaving")
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1301 2011-06-21 10:31:48 <wumpus> amiller: the fact that it is not yet usable for anything practical, even the basest mathematical operators are extremely inefficient or not present (or would leak information)
1302 2011-06-21 10:32:13 <amiller> yeah i'm relying on some optimistic views of how implementable it is
1303 2011-06-21 10:32:25 <amiller> as far as i can tell there are working implementations of a general circuit compiler
1304 2011-06-21 10:32:37 <amiller> and the inefficiencies mostly apply to large amounts of data
1305 2011-06-21 10:32:44 <amiller> there's useful bitcoin applications that don't require that much
1306 2011-06-21 10:33:10 <wumpus> feel free to implement it for bitcoin then
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1308 2011-06-21 10:33:49 <sipa> to use homomorphic encryption (assuming it's even possible for EC)
1309 2011-06-21 10:34:05 <sipa> you could have a program which takes a hash and a transformed private key
1310 2011-06-21 10:34:12 <sipa> and gives you a transformed signature
1311 2011-06-21 10:34:25 <ius> 12:24 < sipa> amiller: from what i understand from it, homomorphic encryption would allow you to write a program that signs a transaction without knowing the transaction
1312 2011-06-21 10:34:33 <ius> That ^^, aka. blind signing
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1314 2011-06-21 10:35:04 <amiller> sipa the program itself can have the private key built into it
1315 2011-06-21 10:35:10 <amiller> it gets obfuscated
1316 2011-06-21 10:35:12 <amiller> as ap rocess of the encryption
1317 2011-06-21 10:35:18 <sipa> amiller: the transformed private key, yes
1318 2011-06-21 10:35:18 <cacheson> amiller: obfuscation is useless
1319 2011-06-21 10:35:19 <amiller> not obfuscated but effectively encrypted
1320 2011-06-21 10:35:22 <ius> amiller: You are advocating a DRM scheme
1321 2011-06-21 10:35:34 pwrcycle has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1322 2011-06-21 10:35:42 <ius> And/or security through obscurity
1323 2011-06-21 10:35:45 <wumpus> the person building the code will still have to know it, though, so he could be compromised.. that's a very centralized approach
1324 2011-06-21 10:35:56 <sipa> all irrelevant
1325 2011-06-21 10:36:17 <sipa> you can (possibly) encrypt the private key inside the program using HE
1326 2011-06-21 10:36:19 <sipa> yes
1327 2011-06-21 10:36:36 <amiller> you simultaneously encrypt the private key and the instructions for signing a transaction
1328 2011-06-21 10:36:44 <LightRider> afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|If you send a transaction with zero fee, and then try to doublespend with a high fee, will the high fee transaction be processed first and deny the first spend attempt from being in the block chain a day or so later?
1329 2011-06-21 10:36:47 <amiller> you can't determine the private key even by tracing hte program as it runs
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1333 2011-06-21 10:37:31 <cacheson> amiller: you can't execute instructions that are encrypted
1334 2011-06-21 10:37:54 manveru has joined
1335 2011-06-21 10:37:59 <amiller> cacheson, that is exactly what homomorphic encryption schemes allow you to do
1336 2011-06-21 10:38:03 <sipa> amiller: HE allows you to apply a program on transformed data, resulting in transformed output - without ever knowing the input and output are
1337 2011-06-21 10:38:07 <sipa> amiller: agree?
1338 2011-06-21 10:38:15 <cacheson> amiller: homomorphic encryption allows you to perform operations on data that you can't see, but it doesn't allow you to do operations without knowing what those operations *are*
1339 2011-06-21 10:38:16 <amiller> you also don't know what the program was
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1341 2011-06-21 10:38:23 <amiller> sipa, they have function-privacy
1342 2011-06-21 10:38:30 <sipa> amiller: just: agree or not?
1343 2011-06-21 10:38:41 <amiller> agree
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1345 2011-06-21 10:38:51 <sipa> ok, so the transformed input here will be the private key
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1347 2011-06-21 10:38:59 <amiller> no
1348 2011-06-21 10:39:11 <sipa> then what?
1349 2011-06-21 10:39:16 <amiller> cacheson, it also disguises the operation of the program
1350 2011-06-21 10:39:21 <sipa> it doesn't
1351 2011-06-21 10:39:29 <sipa> the operations are clear
1352 2011-06-21 10:39:34 <sipa> the data it is working on not
1353 2011-06-21 10:40:01 <enquire> virtual machine is really a bad idea - just found my wallet in plain text within xxxxx.vmem file
1354 2011-06-21 10:40:17 <nathan7> Of course.
1355 2011-06-21 10:40:27 <nathan7> But it's in plain text on your HDD too.
1356 2011-06-21 10:40:33 lumos has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1357 2011-06-21 10:40:34 <nathan7> And in plain text in your RAM.
1358 2011-06-21 10:40:55 <wumpus> you could use an encrypted volume in your vm, makes it a little bit more secure (though it will still be in ram in plain text obviously)
1359 2011-06-21 10:40:58 <enquire> xxxxx.vmem is a file, files are on hard disk obviously )
1360 2011-06-21 10:41:30 <amiller> sipa, https://users-cs.au.dk/stm/local-cache/ihop.pdf this describes 'circuit privacy'
1361 2011-06-21 10:41:32 airfox has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1362 2011-06-21 10:41:38 <amiller> i'll make an excerpt
1363 2011-06-21 10:41:51 <enquire> that's the point - hard disk is encrypted, but memory is dumped as a file on host machine
1364 2011-06-21 10:42:13 <wumpus> ok then you should make it put those files on an encrypted volume too
1365 2011-06-21 10:42:52 <cacheson> wumpus: that's outside the scope of the VM itself
1366 2011-06-21 10:43:08 <wumpus> yes
1367 2011-06-21 10:43:28 <wumpus> for example, I use an encrypted swap partition for the same reason
1368 2011-06-21 10:43:34 <nathan7> Without homomorphic encryption (look it up) you'll always have plaintext
1369 2011-06-21 10:44:27 airfox has joined
1370 2011-06-21 10:44:33 <cacheson> wumpus: that's unlocked while you're computer is running, though. as far as I can tell, the idea behind using a VM is to have a secure OS running inside of an insecure OS
1371 2011-06-21 10:44:37 <cacheson> obviously that doesn't work
1372 2011-06-21 10:44:40 * cacheson shrugs
1373 2011-06-21 10:45:04 <enquire> it does work as long as vm is not running
1374 2011-06-21 10:45:13 <nathan7> and inaccessible.
1375 2011-06-21 10:45:32 <wumpus> cacheson: I don't care about that, if my computer is running you can just as well grab the keys from ram
1376 2011-06-21 10:45:33 <cacheson> enquire: eh, I guess. malware can be patient though
1377 2011-06-21 10:45:47 <vegard> no, the idea behind using a VM is to have an insecure OS running inside a secure OS! :-)
1378 2011-06-21 10:45:55 <enquire> my "big money" sits within a vm that i never open - at least until encrypted wallet version comes out )
1379 2011-06-21 10:45:56 <wumpus> vegard: +1
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1381 2011-06-21 10:46:26 <wumpus> vegard: some people seem to get it the other way around
1382 2011-06-21 10:47:21 <cacheson> enquire: eh, pretty much the same as running the bitcoin client from an encrypted partition, then
1383 2011-06-21 10:47:50 taub has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1384 2011-06-21 10:47:57 <cacheson> if you get malware'd, there's nothing you can do
1385 2011-06-21 10:48:11 <enquire> yes, but slightly more difficult for the virus to get to the wallet.dat
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1389 2011-06-21 10:50:05 <wumpus> for that to be of any one, you should really run the risky stuff (such as web browsing) in a VM too, obviously another one as which bitcoin is running in
1390 2011-06-21 10:50:14 <wumpus> of any use*
1391 2011-06-21 10:50:17 <enquire> well that's fundamental barrier for bitcoin then
1392 2011-06-21 10:50:43 ionspin has joined
1393 2011-06-21 10:50:43 <enquire> even if people catch virus their funds in bank are still safe
1394 2011-06-21 10:50:51 <wumpus> one the bare metal hardware run only vms, so that viruses can't get into there
1395 2011-06-21 10:51:00 <enquire> not with bitcoin
1396 2011-06-21 10:51:25 <vegard> if you don't trust yourself, you should use an online and insured wallet provider
1397 2011-06-21 10:51:45 <jaromil> mmmm, no blowfish in btc, yet this is funny http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2011/06/20/2
1398 2011-06-21 10:51:53 <wumpus> most people with a lot of coins have them isolated, on an usb stick for example, or even printed the private keys and put it into a safe box
1399 2011-06-21 10:52:20 <jaromil> jgarzik: read your comment. it is tested on mingw32 (bluematt) and osx (i did)
1400 2011-06-21 10:52:22 <wumpus> banks will always be neccesary for big amounts, bitcoin is like storing gold in your house
1401 2011-06-21 10:52:35 <jaromil> let me know when you plan the pull, i can review some patches someone else sent me for osx
1402 2011-06-21 10:52:46 <enquire> yeap so we are back to the hated banks )
1403 2011-06-21 10:52:46 <jaromil> gotta go now, bbl
1404 2011-06-21 10:53:13 <cacheson> wumpus: a bank can't do anything for my bitcoin wallet that I can't do myself
1405 2011-06-21 10:53:19 <wumpus> enquire: so what's your point? you no longer need banks to do payments, but for storage having heavily armored buildings is still useful
1406 2011-06-21 10:54:11 <wumpus> if you store everything in your house you'll also lose it when there's a fire or other disaster
1407 2011-06-21 10:54:26 <sacarlson> wumpus: can't we just break up wallets into smaller units of value and only decrypt or keep present the needed value and encrypt and store the big parts?
1408 2011-06-21 10:54:28 <wumpus> no amount of crypto can protect against that :P
1409 2011-06-21 10:54:31 <cacheson> wumpus: make backups, store them offsite
1410 2011-06-21 10:54:38 <enquire> point is whether it is possible to make it easy to use, not dependent on banks, and secure at the same time
1411 2011-06-21 10:54:53 <wumpus> cacheson: yes, for example in a safe deposit box in a BANK :)
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1413 2011-06-21 10:55:04 <cacheson> wumpus: or just with a couple friends
1414 2011-06-21 10:55:17 <sacarlson> wumpus I thought just encrypted on a remote site would do
1415 2011-06-21 10:55:32 <cacheson> wumpus: good encryption is a lot stronger than a metal box
1416 2011-06-21 10:56:03 <wumpus> sacarlson: that'll do, as long as you can remember the key, as soon as you need to store the key somewhere you have the same problem again
1417 2011-06-21 10:56:12 <cacheson> and yes, safe deposit boxes do get cracked open
1418 2011-06-21 10:56:14 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1419 2011-06-21 10:56:49 <wumpus> yes nothing is 100% secure
1420 2011-06-21 10:58:02 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1421 2011-06-21 10:58:16 <sacarlson> wumpus: I'm lazy I let the remote remember till I need to break it https://sites.google.com/site/remotekeyencrypt/files/remote_key_encrypt.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1
1422 2011-06-21 10:59:53 <wumpus> sacarlson: but if you let the 'remote' remember, your key is stored somewhere in a database where it can be compromised
1423 2011-06-21 11:00:06 weinerk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1424 2011-06-21 11:00:33 <sacarlson> wumpus: the key itself is encrypted with the local key but yes nothing is perfect
1425 2011-06-21 11:02:10 <sacarlson> wumpus: we assume that the theaf doesn't know what location you keep the remote key or even know how to use it if he did
1426 2011-06-21 11:02:43 <wumpus> ok
1427 2011-06-21 11:02:44 <enquire> if you store your encrypted wallet online, it's safe at the current level of tech, but the storage owner can keep it for 20 years and who knows what will happen by then, quantum computers and such
1428 2011-06-21 11:02:46 pirrr has joined
1429 2011-06-21 11:02:56 <sacarlson> wumpus: when the system is compromised the key is auto removed from the net
1430 2011-06-21 11:03:04 Donald__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1431 2011-06-21 11:04:12 <wumpus> enquire: yeah who knows what will happen in 20 years
1432 2011-06-21 11:05:39 <sacarlson> I see the bigger problem with all this security when someone dies and doesn't disclose the location of his encrypted files and keys how will they be recovered
1433 2011-06-21 11:06:06 <enquire> public notary?
1434 2011-06-21 11:06:24 <sacarlson> wumpus: I guess the siblings will have to wait 20 years for quantum computers to get what's coming to them
1435 2011-06-21 11:06:42 <enquire> )
1436 2011-06-21 11:06:46 darksk1ez has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1443 2011-06-21 11:10:39 <sacarlson> enquire: maybe time capsule encryption? won't unlock until after a date or the password or key
1444 2011-06-21 11:10:43 pyro_ has joined
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1446 2011-06-21 11:11:08 <wumpus> a dead man's switch maybe
1447 2011-06-21 11:11:10 <cacheson> sacarlson: encryption algorithms can't tell time, unfortunately
1448 2011-06-21 11:11:47 <vegard> there is :-D
1449 2011-06-21 11:11:49 <vegard> the block chain :-D
1450 2011-06-21 11:11:53 <sacarlson> cacheson: maybe it will open after proof of the XXX block chain
1451 2011-06-21 11:12:00 <BlueMatt> jaromil: there is a huge difference between me testing mingw support on ubuntu, and me + jgarzik + many others testing autotools on as many different distros as possible
1452 2011-06-21 11:12:29 <cacheson> sacarlson: I thought about it, but blockchains are for making things public, not keeping them secret
1453 2011-06-21 11:12:42 <BlueMatt> jaromil: and I wasnt aware (nor do I think jgarzik was) that you had tested on osx, but Id still like to see 100x more people test it on osx and get some win32 people testing it
1454 2011-06-21 11:12:50 <sacarlson> cacheson: you can use them for many things including time
1455 2011-06-21 11:12:51 <vegard> no, the block chain is a trusted clock.
1456 2011-06-21 11:12:57 <wumpus> could you build something in the block chain that'd require you to report every XX months, if not, the funds get released to some prespecified addresses
1457 2011-06-21 11:13:01 <BlueMatt> jaromil: (though on second thought I should have realized that)
1458 2011-06-21 11:13:27 <cacheson> vegard: and how do you turn that into a time-locked encryption scheme?
1459 2011-06-21 11:13:41 <vegard> if there is a block with timestamp t, then you know that t is in the past
1460 2011-06-21 11:13:53 <vegard> hm
1461 2011-06-21 11:14:02 <sipa> BlueMatt: i've got a patch (email to me) for fixing some autotools osx issues
1462 2011-06-21 11:14:19 larsivi has joined
1463 2011-06-21 11:14:27 <vegard> cacheson: ok, good point. I have no idea
1464 2011-06-21 11:14:29 <sacarlson> cacheson: ya maybe not posible
1465 2011-06-21 11:14:42 <enquire> maybe put bitcoin source code into block chain?
1466 2011-06-21 11:14:50 <sipa> ...
1467 2011-06-21 11:14:52 <cacheson> the best I can think of is some sort of setup where a bunch of different net hosts each store a small fragment of your key, and send you "still alive?" messages every couple months
1468 2011-06-21 11:14:55 <BlueMatt> sipa: nice, I would branch jaromil's thing and put it in git manually as he tends to never be around
1469 2011-06-21 11:15:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: (if youve got the time)
1470 2011-06-21 11:15:23 <sacarlson> enquire: oh ya a bitcoin script lock over number of blocks would work
1471 2011-06-21 11:15:28 <sipa> pfff, can't the people maintaining the osx build do that
1472 2011-06-21 11:15:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: meh, just forward it to jaromil then
1473 2011-06-21 11:15:53 TD_ has joined
1474 2011-06-21 11:16:04 <sipa> BlueMatt: jaromil has the patch, according to the person who sent it to me
1475 2011-06-21 11:16:07 <sipa> i just want autotools merged
1476 2011-06-21 11:16:15 <sipa> so we can move forward
1477 2011-06-21 11:16:35 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
1478 2011-06-21 11:16:42 <cacheson> sacarlson: so how do you practically apply that to this problem?
1479 2011-06-21 11:16:47 <BlueMatt> well the problem is like 10 people have tested it, so thats a ways off
1480 2011-06-21 11:16:54 <BlueMatt> afaik
1481 2011-06-21 11:16:59 <cacheson> I must admit that I don't know what the full capabilities of bitcoin script are
1482 2011-06-21 11:17:47 <sacarlson> cacheson: the script would have to accept two different input on would unlock after time the other would also unlock before with the key
1483 2011-06-21 11:18:43 <cacheson> sacarlson: but then your funds get released after a year or whatever?
1484 2011-06-21 11:19:05 <sacarlson> cacheson: so when you needed your money you would unlock it and put some into your active walet then lock the uneeded big money back into the time locked transaction
1485 2011-06-21 11:19:35 <cacheson> then if someone steals your wallet, they get your entire savings once the time is up
1486 2011-06-21 11:19:53 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1487 2011-06-21 11:19:53 TD_ is now known as TD
1488 2011-06-21 11:20:22 purrr has joined
1489 2011-06-21 11:21:22 <cacheson> since the destination address has to be specified in advance, right?
1490 2011-06-21 11:21:27 <sipa> ;;later tell jgarzik ok to merge autotools? i'm sure the necessary fixes for osx/win/... will pop up soon once it's merged
1491 2011-06-21 11:21:28 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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1496 2011-06-21 11:24:19 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
1497 2011-06-21 11:25:16 purrr has left ()
1498 2011-06-21 11:26:01 <BlueMatt> sipa: only if win32 is disabled and marked as "not yet done" and osx + mingw is clearly marked as "unstable"
1499 2011-06-21 11:26:40 <sipa> hmmm
1500 2011-06-21 11:26:51 xtalmath has joined
1501 2011-06-21 11:28:03 <BlueMatt> sipa: win32 literally has a comment on the current version that says something to the effect of TODO: implement this
1502 2011-06-21 11:28:24 weinerk has joined
1503 2011-06-21 11:28:31 <cacheson> I should do that with my programs
1504 2011-06-21 11:28:37 <cacheson> "TODO: write this program"
1505 2011-06-21 11:28:42 <cacheson> voila, beta release
1506 2011-06-21 11:28:45 <norrec> thats the hallmark of great programming isnt it?
1507 2011-06-21 11:28:48 <sipa> yes, but win32 isn't priority imho, as even the official win binaries are done using crosscompile
1508 2011-06-21 11:28:56 <sipa> osx should work though
1509 2011-06-21 11:29:08 weinerk has quit (Changing host)
1510 2011-06-21 11:29:08 weinerk has joined
1511 2011-06-21 11:31:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: well I suppose I wouldnt mind merge if someone got around to testing mingw on fedora...there might be a couple ubuntu-specific things hiding in there that I didnt realize
1512 2011-06-21 11:31:52 <sipa> ah and autotools needs rebase to walletclass as well
1513 2011-06-21 11:32:16 <BlueMatt> yep that too
1514 2011-06-21 11:32:34 <sipa> anyone want to make a branch with walletclass + autotools + fix?
1515 2011-06-21 11:33:20 RobboNZ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1516 2011-06-21 11:33:34 <BlueMatt> if you have a copy of the osx thing, Ill do it...but as long as jgarzik tests on fedora before merge
1517 2011-06-21 11:34:02 f33x has joined
1518 2011-06-21 11:34:12 <sipa> sec
1519 2011-06-21 11:34:24 Clipse has joined
1520 2011-06-21 11:34:31 <xtalmath> is there a codebrowsing tool that gives flowgraphs and understands threads? i.e. it would show which threads could be started and the call graph of each thread
1521 2011-06-21 11:35:31 <xtalmath> what is the fastest way to understand the architecture of bitcoin? the paper is very interesting but leaves out a lot of details (compare the subjective entropy of the paper with that of the codebase)
1522 2011-06-21 11:35:50 sacarlson has joined
1523 2011-06-21 11:36:04 <xtalmath> can a wiki be built dedicated to bitcoin?
1524 2011-06-21 11:36:57 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
1525 2011-06-21 11:36:58 <upb> there is one
1526 2011-06-21 11:37:10 <xtalmath> meant bitcoin design decisions and architecture, not about economy
1527 2011-06-21 11:37:18 <sipa> http://bitcoin.it
1528 2011-06-21 11:37:22 <xtalmath> dev specific, and welcoming to the wanna-forker
1529 2011-06-21 11:37:39 <xtalmath> they only have a few pages and they arent very detailed
1530 2011-06-21 11:37:59 <upb> the code isnt so large, so i ugess you will have to just read pretty much all of it
1531 2011-06-21 11:38:23 nefario has joined
1532 2011-06-21 11:38:33 <sipa> i still discovered parts about which i think "hey, i never realized i didn't completely understood how this worked"
1533 2011-06-21 11:38:36 <upb> 25KLOC
1534 2011-06-21 11:38:43 <sipa> it's not that much code, but it's quite complicated
1535 2011-06-21 11:39:43 csshih_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1536 2011-06-21 11:41:23 f33x has quit (Quit: f33x)
1537 2011-06-21 11:41:59 <norrec> is it worthwile to configure some sort of pool, for ~20 clients running ~2Ghash at a couple differnt locations, or do you think its alright to leave them running off a bitcoind in server at one of the locations, as i have it now?
1538 2011-06-21 11:42:08 gsathya has joined
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1540 2011-06-21 11:44:21 BlueMatt has joined
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1542 2011-06-21 11:45:51 <anddam> can we already make jokes about the mtgox's incident or is that too soon?
1543 2011-06-21 11:46:27 <anddam> assuming the answer is yes, I think I found the main fault on the mtgox's problem, look at MT's signature on fourm
1544 2011-06-21 11:46:38 <cacheson> php can do anything? :P
1545 2011-06-21 11:46:40 <anddam> "PHP can do ANYTHING!" that explains a lot
1546 2011-06-21 11:46:46 <anddam> you see the point too
1547 2011-06-21 11:46:48 <anddam> ;-)
1548 2011-06-21 11:47:14 <edcba> sqli is pretty noobish way to get owned
1549 2011-06-21 11:47:17 <anddam> those threads are huge
1550 2011-06-21 11:47:24 <anddam> kevin's and MT's
1551 2011-06-21 11:47:33 <upb> lol exactly
1552 2011-06-21 11:47:37 <edcba> i don't know if bitcoin will survive that
1553 2011-06-21 11:47:49 <norrec> why
1554 2011-06-21 11:47:50 <anddam> sure, with much less public faith
1555 2011-06-21 11:48:07 sipa has left ()
1556 2011-06-21 11:48:09 <norrec> they just wont have faith in mtgox
1557 2011-06-21 11:48:15 <anddam> edcba: probably speculators (I was a wannabe) will leave
1558 2011-06-21 11:48:29 <cacheson> cool
1559 2011-06-21 11:48:35 <cacheson> hopefully they sell their coins cheap on the way out
1560 2011-06-21 11:48:46 <norrec> ^^
1561 2011-06-21 11:49:20 <upb> what has happened in the meantime, mt responded to the disclosure of exploits ?
1562 2011-06-21 11:49:24 <upb> still 'wasnt hacked' ?
1563 2011-06-21 11:49:58 <edcba> he did awnser
1564 2011-06-21 11:50:09 <norrec> are u surprised that they are running damage control?
1565 2011-06-21 11:50:13 <edcba> in his company blog iirc
1566 2011-06-21 11:50:23 <norrec> its still a company
1567 2011-06-21 11:50:49 <weinerk> hi. what happened to TradeHill API?
1568 2011-06-21 11:50:50 <weinerk> This is not working anymore:
1569 2011-06-21 11:50:50 <weinerk> https://api.tradehill.com/API/USD/Orderbook
1570 2011-06-21 11:50:50 <weinerk> https://api.tradehill.com/API/USD/Trades
1571 2011-06-21 11:51:05 <ersi> How about asking tradehill
1572 2011-06-21 11:51:17 <pierre`> lul
1573 2011-06-21 11:51:23 <cacheson> weinerk: their site says "coming soon" for the API
1574 2011-06-21 11:51:28 <pierre`> how can you trust a website located on a VPS ?
1575 2011-06-21 11:51:30 minimoose has joined
1576 2011-06-21 11:51:41 <cacheson> so if it was already up, I guess they pulled it after the mtgox stuff went down?
1577 2011-06-21 11:52:39 f33x has joined
1578 2011-06-21 11:52:41 <weinerk> I sent an email, Is there a faster way to find out?
1579 2011-06-21 11:52:41 Bossland_ has joined
1580 2011-06-21 11:53:13 <weinerk> It was working untill maybe a couple hours
1581 2011-06-21 11:53:29 <ersi> Yeah, phone them up
1582 2011-06-21 11:53:45 <ersi> They have like 10 phones numbers in public on their forum posts
1583 2011-06-21 11:54:04 <cacheson> "sorry to wake you, but my bot isn't working" ;)
1584 2011-06-21 11:54:28 makomk_ has joined
1585 2011-06-21 11:54:42 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i am around, whenever there is a reason
1586 2011-06-21 11:54:51 <jaromil> its been 3 weeks i'm asking when you like to give it attention
1587 2011-06-21 11:54:55 beawesomeinstead has left ()
1588 2011-06-21 11:54:55 <jaromil> so don't say i'm not around plz
1589 2011-06-21 11:55:03 <jaromil> if you are serious about that, i'm reliable
1590 2011-06-21 11:55:19 <jaromil> plus i also want to move forward
1591 2011-06-21 11:55:31 <BlueMatt> jaromil: well what I meant is, you arent on a ton and dont spend time on autotools
1592 2011-06-21 11:55:42 <BlueMatt> you are around occasionally, yes, but not all the time
1593 2011-06-21 11:55:42 <jaromil> said that - the osx patch can be incorporated very fast
1594 2011-06-21 11:55:48 makomk has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1595 2011-06-21 11:55:54 Bossland__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1596 2011-06-21 11:55:58 <jaromil> i use autotools on a dozen of other projects, what do you mean
1597 2011-06-21 11:56:01 makomk_ is now known as makomk
1598 2011-06-21 11:56:17 <jaromil> my nick is always here, i log everything and read regularly on nick highlights
1599 2011-06-21 11:56:21 <jaromil> as you see
1600 2011-06-21 11:56:27 <jaromil> its just a matter of doing it, this is no issue
1601 2011-06-21 11:57:03 <jaromil> and since the autotools is something i dedicated approx 24 hours so far, i like to follow it
1602 2011-06-21 11:57:17 <BlueMatt> well my point was that you put autotools up for merge, but didnt follow up asking for testers, or testing on other oses, not that thats really your job, but that doesnt mean its gonna automatically move forward
1603 2011-06-21 11:57:35 <tcatm> weinerk: their api is back :)
1604 2011-06-21 11:58:05 <jaromil> also your emphasis on testing everywhere is a non-issue
1605 2011-06-21 11:58:21 <weinerk> tcatm: 1) thanks. 2) do you know what it was?
1606 2011-06-21 11:58:26 <jaromil> one could repeat that mantra forever
1607 2011-06-21 11:58:48 <tcatm> weinerk: no idea...
1608 2011-06-21 11:58:56 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i did ask for testers, i did follow the pull req, i did respond to all questions
1609 2011-06-21 11:59:05 <jaromil> and sipa: yes i do have that patch, i can incorporate it
1610 2011-06-21 11:59:06 lawpz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1612 2011-06-21 11:59:28 <BlueMatt> jaromil: well whatever, no matter what was done, it still sits that there has not been much testing, beyond linux
1613 2011-06-21 11:59:30 <jaromil> having also the permission of the contributor to merge it
1614 2011-06-21 11:59:53 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i tested it and reported. it is not my fault if your maintainance has issues
1615 2011-06-21 11:59:59 Katapult has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1616 2011-06-21 12:00:00 <jaromil> they are beyond my reach and yes, you have issues
1617 2011-06-21 12:00:00 <BlueMatt> and I really dont like merging something that claims to work on one os or another, but has never been tested, or even attempted to be implemented
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1620 2011-06-21 12:00:31 <jaromil> you see, the *majority* of users of bitcoin just asks that it runs
1621 2011-06-21 12:00:36 <BlueMatt> my maintenance?
1622 2011-06-21 12:00:46 <jaromil> ultimately if you are addressing people using autotools, you are addressing people that know how to compile
1623 2011-06-21 12:01:12 <jaromil> it is a mirage to make sourcecode compile out of the box as if that would be the final users condition
1624 2011-06-21 12:01:13 _nomit is now known as nomit
1625 2011-06-21 12:01:41 <BlueMatt> jaromil: that patch looks good to me, if you dont mind, could you put that on the branch
1626 2011-06-21 12:01:43 <BlueMatt> (and rebase)
1627 2011-06-21 12:01:44 <jaromil> said that, i consider the current autotools pull req a fairly well tested system that won't ever get widely tested until merged
1628 2011-06-21 12:01:51 <jaromil> sure, i can do that now
1629 2011-06-21 12:03:15 <jaromil> for the record, we are talking about this https://github.com/jaromil/bitcoin/pulls
1630 2011-06-21 12:03:44 <anddam> I'm willing to test on OS X, I don't follow forum nor github pull reqs
1631 2011-06-21 12:03:56 <anddam> (obviously I would if I'd take testing)+
1632 2011-06-21 12:04:10 <BlueMatt> jaromil: oh, I had just seen the first one
1633 2011-06-21 12:04:36 ChuckSchumer has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1634 2011-06-21 12:05:26 <BlueMatt> jaromil: yea, just the first one...the libassuan stuff looks ok, but that belongs in an assuan pull not in the general autotools one
1635 2011-06-21 12:05:40 <anddam> jaromil: totally OT - are you going at Appsterdam's
1636 2011-06-21 12:05:42 <anddam> ?
1637 2011-06-21 12:06:12 Phoebus has joined
1638 2011-06-21 12:06:27 <jaromil> anddam: nope. whats that? i can fwd to other dyne ppl if its worth
1639 2011-06-21 12:08:04 denorm has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1640 2011-06-21 12:08:13 <jaromil> oh btw i also don't follow the forums (i'm a mailinglist dude, rly)
1641 2011-06-21 12:08:32 <jaromil> wishing someone forwards this to the crowds advocating bcrypt http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2011/06/20/2
1642 2011-06-21 12:08:34 <anddam> dyne ppl?
1643 2011-06-21 12:08:38 <BlueMatt> not many people do any more, too much spam
1644 2011-06-21 12:08:49 <jaromil> anddam: there are other ppl i code with on proj. around NL and some are OSX heads
1645 2011-06-21 12:09:18 <cacheson> I'm surprised the forums haven't been jettisoned from bitcoin.org yet
1646 2011-06-21 12:09:21 <jaromil> if that is a osx gig. xant was presenting at cocoaheads already some time ago
1647 2011-06-21 12:09:26 <cacheson> place is a cesspool
1648 2011-06-21 12:09:34 <anddam> so they are definitely going to be interested: http://mur.mu.rs/?p=1 and http://twitter.com/appsterdam
1649 2011-06-21 12:09:44 <jaromil> anddam: 10x will fwd
1650 2011-06-21 12:09:48 f33x has quit (Quit: f33x)
1651 2011-06-21 12:09:58 <anddam> jaromil: I discovered that by accident and totally unrelated I'll be in NL in a couple days
1652 2011-06-21 12:10:18 <hachque> hey everyone
1653 2011-06-21 12:10:30 <hachque> me and a few people just finished writing up a paper on how exchanges can be secured better
1654 2011-06-21 12:10:31 <hachque> http://www.redpointsoftware.com.au/papers/3FactorAuthenticationForExchanges.pdf
1655 2011-06-21 12:10:38 <jaromil> ack. i'll be in http://hackmeeting.org also giving a w'shop on bitcoin tech in italian
1656 2011-06-21 12:10:50 <anddam> lol
1657 2011-06-21 12:10:54 <hachque> in the event that the exchange is breached, the attacker can not send or make trades on the user's behalf
1658 2011-06-21 12:11:08 <hachque> + it's a little more advance than that
1659 2011-06-21 12:11:16 <hachque> and also covers if the user's computer gets compromised
1660 2011-06-21 12:11:27 <anddam> hachque: defeinitely reading that
1661 2011-06-21 12:11:31 <anddam> thanks
1662 2011-06-21 12:11:45 <anddam> and beautifully latexed too
1663 2011-06-21 12:11:54 <hachque> oh yeah :D
1664 2011-06-21 12:11:56 <jaromil> ah then i can read it too
1665 2011-06-21 12:12:02 <hachque> LaTeX ftw :D
1666 2011-06-21 12:12:06 terracotta has joined
1667 2011-06-21 12:12:06 <jaromil> :))
1668 2011-06-21 12:12:11 BlueMatt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1669 2011-06-21 12:12:29 <anddam> how many have considered creating an exchange?
1670 2011-06-21 12:12:35 BlueMatt has joined
1671 2011-06-21 12:12:39 <jaromil> bbl
1672 2011-06-21 12:13:13 <anddam> jaromil: lol June 24-26th
1673 2011-06-21 12:13:16 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1674 2011-06-21 12:13:23 terracotta has quit (Changing host)
1675 2011-06-21 12:13:23 terracotta has joined
1676 2011-06-21 12:14:36 <anddam> hachque: Engine has no webpage, has it?
1677 2011-06-21 12:14:50 <hachque> andam: what do you mean?
1678 2011-06-21 12:15:42 <hachque> *anddam
1679 2011-06-21 12:16:05 <anddam> hachque: http://www.redpointengine.com/ "coming soon"
1680 2011-06-21 12:16:11 <hachque> heh yeah that's old
1681 2011-06-21 12:16:19 <hachque> most likely that coming soon will be coming never ;)
1682 2011-06-21 12:16:35 <SomeoneWeird> lol
1683 2011-06-21 12:17:58 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1684 2011-06-21 12:18:28 <anddam> change it in "coming never"
1685 2011-06-21 12:18:28 pmazur_ has joined
1686 2011-06-21 12:18:43 josephholsten has joined
1687 2011-06-21 12:18:48 <hachque> hqaha yeah i should
1688 2011-06-21 12:18:50 enquire has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1689 2011-06-21 12:18:52 <hachque> i'll get around to it
1690 2011-06-21 12:18:54 <hachque> or the domain will expire
1691 2011-06-21 12:18:56 <hachque> one of those
1692 2011-06-21 12:18:56 <hachque> :P
1693 2011-06-21 12:18:59 josephholsten has quit (Client Quit)
1694 2011-06-21 12:19:00 enquire has joined
1695 2011-06-21 12:20:16 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1696 2011-06-21 12:20:28 <hachque> anyway, do let me know what you think of the paper
1697 2011-06-21 12:20:35 <hachque> especially any flaws you might be able to see in it :P
1698 2011-06-21 12:21:25 <SomeoneWeird> It has no flaws! It was written by us! We are GODS.
1699 2011-06-21 12:21:31 <SomeoneWeird> ;P
1700 2011-06-21 12:21:45 <hachque> lol
1701 2011-06-21 12:21:53 <ersi> anddam: A billion zillion bitcoiners
1702 2011-06-21 12:22:09 f33x has joined
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1704 2011-06-21 12:24:23 <BitcoinForNewegg> that master key will never work
1705 2011-06-21 12:24:29 <SomeoneWeird> why not?
1706 2011-06-21 12:24:31 lumos has joined
1707 2011-06-21 12:24:40 <BitcoinForNewegg> just have each trade present a summary of it to be signed by the trader
1708 2011-06-21 12:24:43 Slober has joined
1709 2011-06-21 12:24:50 <BitcoinForNewegg> if you send the data to the server, the server has it
1710 2011-06-21 12:24:54 <SomeoneWeird> no
1711 2011-06-21 12:25:02 <BitcoinForNewegg> if that data is any kind of key it is compromised
1712 2011-06-21 12:25:03 <hachque> the server stores it in memory
1713 2011-06-21 12:25:11 <hachque> okay
1714 2011-06-21 12:25:14 <hachque> when the master key is sent to the server
1715 2011-06-21 12:25:14 <SomeoneWeird> hm
1716 2011-06-21 12:25:20 <hachque> it is assumed the server is not yet compromised
1717 2011-06-21 12:25:24 <BitcoinForNewegg> one common hack is to replace the code ont he server with code that does somethign else
1718 2011-06-21 12:25:33 <BitcoinForNewegg> then you get everything
1719 2011-06-21 12:25:34 <hachque> it is in the event that the server become compromised that the attacker can not withdraw coins
1720 2011-06-21 12:25:42 <SomeoneWeird> yeah
1721 2011-06-21 12:25:51 <BitcoinForNewegg> just require pgp signing of all orders
1722 2011-06-21 12:25:56 <SomeoneWeird> so even if it does get changed, he won't be able to withdraw then
1723 2011-06-21 12:26:00 <SomeoneWeird> thats what i suggested
1724 2011-06-21 12:26:06 TD has joined
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1726 2011-06-21 12:26:08 <BitcoinForNewegg> and then state that if you sign it, it is valid no matter what happens
1727 2011-06-21 12:26:31 nocreativenick1 has joined
1728 2011-06-21 12:26:33 <BitcoinForNewegg> the exchange doesnt need to police the internet
1729 2011-06-21 12:26:34 <hachque> technically if an attacker changes the page to store master keys, that's a possible attack vector
1730 2011-06-21 12:26:40 viggi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1731 2011-06-21 12:26:43 <BitcoinForNewegg> thats exactly what they woudl do
1732 2011-06-21 12:26:53 <BitcoinForNewegg> then they downlaod them later and thye ahve all the keys
1733 2011-06-21 12:26:58 <hachque> then they still need to breach the sms verification though
1734 2011-06-21 12:27:14 <BitcoinForNewegg> sms lol
1735 2011-06-21 12:27:16 <BitcoinForNewegg> that is stupid
1736 2011-06-21 12:27:19 <hachque> although once again they could monitor the receiving code on the server
1737 2011-06-21 12:27:20 <SomeoneWeird> why?
1738 2011-06-21 12:27:26 <hachque> and know the differencing code
1739 2011-06-21 12:27:27 <BitcoinForNewegg> then you are relying on another company
1740 2011-06-21 12:27:33 scott`_ has joined
1741 2011-06-21 12:27:44 <SomeoneWeird> BitcoinForNewegg, did you even read the whole paper?
1742 2011-06-21 12:27:46 <BitcoinForNewegg> also they can be sniffed fromt eh air since they are nto encrypted
1743 2011-06-21 12:27:50 <hachque> BitcoinForNewegg: i suggest you reread the differencing code then
1744 2011-06-21 12:27:50 <BitcoinForNewegg> or the sim can be cloned
1745 2011-06-21 12:27:51 Incitatus has joined
1746 2011-06-21 12:28:05 <hachque> i do like the idea of signing trades before sending them though
1747 2011-06-21 12:28:08 <hachque> but once again
1748 2011-06-21 12:28:09 <SomeoneWeird> yeah
1749 2011-06-21 12:28:11 <hachque> what does signing get you?
1750 2011-06-21 12:28:19 <BitcoinForNewegg> anything sent to a server is assumed to be public knoweledge to attackers
1751 2011-06-21 12:28:20 <SomeoneWeird> verifaction
1752 2011-06-21 12:28:22 <hachque> it doesn't prevent an attacker from withdrawing an arbitrary amount of coins
1753 2011-06-21 12:28:23 <jaromil> BlueMatt: i've examined the patch and commented on the autotools pull req
1754 2011-06-21 12:28:30 <BitcoinForNewegg> it does
1755 2011-06-21 12:28:32 <SomeoneWeird> no
1756 2011-06-21 12:28:34 <hachque> no it doesn't
1757 2011-06-21 12:28:37 <SomeoneWeird> READ the paper.
1758 2011-06-21 12:28:39 <hachque> if they have the master key adn the differencing code
1759 2011-06-21 12:28:45 <hachque> they can unlock the private key for that bitcoin account
1760 2011-06-21 12:28:46 Herodes has joined
1761 2011-06-21 12:28:48 <BitcoinForNewegg> it moves the problem of security to the user and then the user 1q00% controls it
1762 2011-06-21 12:28:48 <hachque> and use it
1763 2011-06-21 12:29:05 <jaromil> can proceed including if there is consensus on that, yet it makes sense to observe it standalone for now
1764 2011-06-21 12:29:08 <hachque> signing trades does nothing to prevent an attacker using the bitcoin account's private key
1765 2011-06-21 12:29:30 <BitcoinForNewegg> the boins are on the server, not in ur wallet when u make trades
1766 2011-06-21 12:29:36 <hachque> yeah
1767 2011-06-21 12:29:37 <hachque> that's my point
1768 2011-06-21 12:29:39 <BitcoinForNewegg> the bitcoin client is irrelevant
1769 2011-06-21 12:29:41 <hachque> if the attacker has server control
1770 2011-06-21 12:29:58 <cacheson> hachque: you wouldn't put your pgp private key on the server
1771 2011-06-21 12:30:01 <hachque> then they have access to the encrypted private key of the bitcoin account that is storing the user's coins at the exchange
1772 2011-06-21 12:30:15 <BitcoinForNewegg> thats why you sign transactions
1773 2011-06-21 12:30:19 <BitcoinForNewegg> oh listen
1774 2011-06-21 12:30:20 <hachque> gah private key for signing bitcoin transactions == encrypted at the server side
1775 2011-06-21 12:30:22 <BitcoinForNewegg> you make a trade
1776 2011-06-21 12:30:39 <kish_> how large is the key
1777 2011-06-21 12:30:43 <hachque> master key + differencing code is the decryption for that encrypted private key
1778 2011-06-21 12:30:46 <BitcoinForNewegg> a window pops up with 2 boxes, one has the details of th eorder, the other requires the details to be signed and typed in
1779 2011-06-21 12:30:57 DiSTANT187 has joined
1780 2011-06-21 12:31:07 <BitcoinForNewegg> you keep your keys and any trades not verified with the key isinvalid
1781 2011-06-21 12:31:18 <hachque> but the trading server is compromised!
1782 2011-06-21 12:31:27 <hachque> what stops the attacker withdrawing coins from the trading server?
1783 2011-06-21 12:31:27 DukeOfURL has joined
1784 2011-06-21 12:31:31 <BitcoinForNewegg> those trades are stealign from the person that runs the exchange, not from the user if the server is broksn, and they steal from users if the users pc is broken
1785 2011-06-21 12:31:38 viggi has joined
1786 2011-06-21 12:31:48 <SomeoneWeird> 0_o
1787 2011-06-21 12:31:49 ChuckSchumer has joined
1788 2011-06-21 12:32:00 <BitcoinForNewegg> so its people's own responsibility to secure their own stuff, why woudl you expect someone else to secure your money?
1789 2011-06-21 12:32:03 <hachque> yeah... you didn't really read the process in the paper did you?
1790 2011-06-21 12:32:05 DukeOfURL has quit (Client Quit)
1791 2011-06-21 12:32:10 <SomeoneWeird> no he didn't hachque
1792 2011-06-21 12:32:11 <BitcoinForNewegg> your paper sux sms is gay
1793 2011-06-21 12:32:27 DukeOfURL has joined
1794 2011-06-21 12:32:33 <hachque> if you did you would have clearly seen the process outline of "A (local) -> A (exchange) -> P (exchange) -> B (exchange) -> B (local)"
1795 2011-06-21 12:32:35 <kish_> try reading the source code
1796 2011-06-21 12:32:37 <BitcoinForNewegg> you just have to make the exchange secure
1797 2011-06-21 12:32:43 <hachque> lol
1798 2011-06-21 12:32:46 <kish_> see fi the protocol makes sense from within the code
1799 2011-06-21 12:33:01 weinerk has joined
1800 2011-06-21 12:33:07 <hachque> we're trying to solve the problem that in the event the exchange gets compromised the users bitcoins can't be stolen :)
1801 2011-06-21 12:33:07 <BitcoinForNewegg> but that becomes the exchanges problem
1802 2011-06-21 12:33:15 <BitcoinForNewegg> require signing
1803 2011-06-21 12:33:21 weinerk has quit (Changing host)
1804 2011-06-21 12:33:21 weinerk has joined
1805 2011-06-21 12:33:21 <BitcoinForNewegg> then the exchanges citcoins get stolen
1806 2011-06-21 12:33:25 <BitcoinForNewegg> bitcoins*
1807 2011-06-21 12:33:30 <BitcoinForNewegg> not th eusers
1808 2011-06-21 12:33:32 <hachque> that doesn't help
1809 2011-06-21 12:33:43 <ersi> Way to go, commenting on something you havn't read
1810 2011-06-21 12:34:05 <BitcoinForNewegg> requireing SMS is stupid
1811 2011-06-21 12:34:11 <hachque> yeah i'm just going to go and suggest you read the paper :)
1812 2011-06-21 12:34:23 <hachque> i do not believe the paper states that SMS is required
1813 2011-06-21 12:34:32 <ersi> BUT IT SAYS SMS SO IT HAS TO BE THAT
1814 2011-06-21 12:34:35 <ersi> TROLOLOL I SKIMMED IT
1815 2011-06-21 12:34:38 <ersi> herp derp
1816 2011-06-21 12:34:39 <SomeoneWeird> lol
1817 2011-06-21 12:34:41 <hachque> lol
1818 2011-06-21 12:34:50 <ersi> Feckin' trolls be everywhere
1819 2011-06-21 12:35:08 <BitcoinForNewegg> if someone hacks the server, there is no way to make sure the bitcoins don't get stolen without giving clients the ability to deny the exchange access to their money
1820 2011-06-21 12:35:35 <hachque> that's because you didn't read the paper
1821 2011-06-21 12:35:47 <SomeoneWeird> BitcoinForNewegg; the PRIVATE keys are ENCRYPTED.
1822 2011-06-21 12:35:52 <SomeoneWeird> >.>
1823 2011-06-21 12:35:57 <hachque> SomeoneWeird: he be trollin'
1824 2011-06-21 12:36:03 <SomeoneWeird> yep.
1825 2011-06-21 12:36:06 <jaromil> bluematt, sipa: so, i'll wait until next time my nick highligths. just keep in mind i'm reading and available.
1826 2011-06-21 12:36:15 <BitcoinForNewegg> if the server can access the money it can be stolen
1827 2011-06-21 12:36:20 <SomeoneWeird> omfg.
1828 2011-06-21 12:36:21 <BitcoinForNewegg> its that simple
1829 2011-06-21 12:36:26 <BlueMatt> jaromil: fair enough
1830 2011-06-21 12:36:33 <BitcoinForNewegg> if the server cant access the money, then it doesnt have th emoney
1831 2011-06-21 12:36:39 scott`_ has quit (Quit: scott`_)
1832 2011-06-21 12:36:41 <BitcoinForNewegg> and the client still has control over it
1833 2011-06-21 12:37:10 <BitcoinForNewegg> ifit requires boththe server and client to access the money, thats just stupid
1834 2011-06-21 12:37:21 <BitcoinForNewegg> someone coudl jsut delete the server and al the money is gone
1835 2011-06-21 12:37:31 <ersi> BitcoinForNewegg: But it has SMS!
1836 2011-06-21 12:37:33 <Namegduf> Note that clients are untrusted.
1837 2011-06-21 12:37:37 <ersi> So you're totally safe man!
1838 2011-06-21 12:37:41 <BitcoinForNewegg> clients are trusted
1839 2011-06-21 12:37:44 <Namegduf> No, they aren't.
1840 2011-06-21 12:38:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> people are responsible for their pc, if it gets hacked its the person's problem
1841 2011-06-21 12:38:15 <ersi> Or is it?
1842 2011-06-21 12:38:16 <Namegduf> And if they make it misbehave on purpose?
1843 2011-06-21 12:38:16 <BitcoinForNewegg> nopt the exchanges
1844 2011-06-21 12:38:24 <cacheson> /ignore BitcoinForNewegg
1845 2011-06-21 12:38:25 <Namegduf> If you design a system which requires trusting everyone's client to do what it should, your design is awful
1846 2011-06-21 12:38:39 <BitcoinForNewegg> only trust the client that can sign a transaction
1847 2011-06-21 12:38:43 <Namegduf> And not applicable to the actual security needs of exchanges
1848 2011-06-21 12:39:02 <Namegduf> You would need to have your design not trust that sells can actually be completed.
1849 2011-06-21 12:39:04 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
1850 2011-06-21 12:39:11 <Namegduf> If they're dependent on a client.
1851 2011-06-21 12:39:23 <Namegduf> This means you need to look at *everything* that could possibly be done by deliberately not doing sells.
1852 2011-06-21 12:39:26 <BitcoinForNewegg> if they can sign somethign with the PGP key they use when settign up the acct, the trade is real 100%
1853 2011-06-21 12:39:32 <Namegduf> The obvious one is to accept a sell, wait for the market to move
1854 2011-06-21 12:39:41 <BitcoinForNewegg> exactly
1855 2011-06-21 12:39:41 <Namegduf> And let it go through if the market moved in a way that makes it profitable
1856 2011-06-21 12:39:57 <Namegduf> Otherwise never sign it
1857 2011-06-21 12:40:03 <BitcoinForNewegg> and then u ahve to be connected to the market for a trade to complete
1858 2011-06-21 12:40:04 ericmock has quit (Quit: ericmock)
1859 2011-06-21 12:40:04 <Namegduf> This is not a properly operating exchange
1860 2011-06-21 12:40:22 <BitcoinForNewegg> the bit ask spread can always be stolen if the exchange can have it in the market
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1863 2011-06-21 12:40:41 <BitcoinForNewegg> claim you internet died if you want to cancel a trade
1864 2011-06-21 12:40:50 <BitcoinForNewegg> it woudl screw everythign up with ur way
1865 2011-06-21 12:41:07 <Namegduf> Why claim anything?
1866 2011-06-21 12:41:22 <BitcoinForNewegg> so you get the money back to do it again
1867 2011-06-21 12:41:28 <Namegduf> You don't need to answer for it.
1868 2011-06-21 12:41:30 <Namegduf> You just do it.
1869 2011-06-21 12:41:31 <BitcoinForNewegg> otherwise it woudl dissappear :(
1870 2011-06-21 12:41:44 <BitcoinForNewegg> they may ask 'why do your trades always fail to complete'
1871 2011-06-21 12:41:53 <Namegduf> They can't even identify you
1872 2011-06-21 12:41:54 <BitcoinForNewegg> we are holdign ut money till furthur notice
1873 2011-06-21 12:42:06 <Namegduf> What I'm asking is, what is your way and have you considered *everything* that a possible malicious client can do?
1874 2011-06-21 12:42:22 <Namegduf> Person to person trades are non-instant, require escrow, and even then are fairly iffy
1875 2011-06-21 12:42:27 <BitcoinForNewegg> if a client signs all transactions witha PGP key it is 100% foolproof
1876 2011-06-21 12:42:40 <BitcoinForNewegg> the client can only lose its own money
1877 2011-06-21 12:42:40 mtrlt has joined
1878 2011-06-21 12:42:49 <BitcoinForNewegg> the server can only lose its own money
1879 2011-06-21 12:42:53 <hachque> one hundred percents; absolutely nothing could go wrong at all!
1880 2011-06-21 12:43:05 <Namegduf> That's a nonsensical statement.
1881 2011-06-21 12:43:05 dbitcoin has joined
1882 2011-06-21 12:43:11 <BitcoinForNewegg> if something goes wrong, the one that fucked up is the one that is on the hook for ht emoney
1883 2011-06-21 12:43:13 <Namegduf> "100% foolproof" against what?
1884 2011-06-21 12:43:22 <sacarlson> Namegduf: ya I think the p2p escrow idea would be secure but then It might also be slow
1885 2011-06-21 12:43:29 <Namegduf> Tip: It isn't everything that could possibly go wrong. It's a rather small set of what can go wrong.
1886 2011-06-21 12:43:32 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1887 2011-06-21 12:43:41 <Namegduf> sacarlson: It's used for other exchanges, but they're invite only
1888 2011-06-21 12:43:45 <BitcoinForNewegg> the server being compromised resulting in clients losing coins is impossible
1889 2011-06-21 12:43:55 danbri has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1890 2011-06-21 12:44:21 <BitcoinForNewegg> i dont think 'made crappy server someone stole my money' is a problem with the idea its a problem with the crappy programmer
1891 2011-06-21 12:44:29 <Namegduf> BitcoinForNewegg: Okay. What about all the other possible issues that can arise?
1892 2011-06-21 12:44:33 <dD0T> BitcoinForNewegg: Not if they used the same pw for say dropbox to which they backed up their wallet.dat ;-)
1893 2011-06-21 12:44:38 <Namegduf> Like, for example, clients refusing to sign trades
1894 2011-06-21 12:44:46 <BitcoinForNewegg> 'cant secure pgp key' is the fault of the joe sixpack client
1895 2011-06-21 12:44:46 <sacarlson> Namegduf: and your entire trade has to got direct from one pear to another instead of your one sell trade moving over to 10 other buyers
1896 2011-06-21 12:45:21 <BitcoinForNewegg> i coudl make 1,000,000 (1 000 000) trades and slow the drop in the market to a crawl at any price
1897 2011-06-21 12:45:35 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1899 2011-06-21 12:45:38 <BitcoinForNewegg> just buy not signingthem if its about to dip too low
1900 2011-06-21 12:45:57 <Namegduf> BitcoinForNewegg: Bluntly, your design isn't done right. You can't, ever, include untrusted parties like another person's client in your purchase without basically *proving* they can't do anything malicious
1901 2011-06-21 12:46:01 <Namegduf> And security is kind of important here
1902 2011-06-21 12:46:11 danbri has joined
1903 2011-06-21 12:46:57 <jaromil> mmmmm, the conservative gnome living inside my programmer's brain is worried by this.. http://www.softwarequalityconnection.com/2011/06/the-biggest-changes-in-c11-and-why-you-should-care/
1904 2011-06-21 12:47:05 <sacarlson> BitcoinForNewegg: I guess you need the third party in your trades of this type of escrow with the third signer being the exchange that is trusted to line up the buy and sell priced contracts
1905 2011-06-21 12:47:11 <jaromil> however, good article
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1911 2011-06-21 12:48:33 <jaromil> 14:43 <BitcoinForNewegg> 'cant secure pgp key' is the fault of the joe sixpack client
1912 2011-06-21 12:48:46 <jaromil> right, that's why you have steganography (and i still wonder why noone uses it)
1913 2011-06-21 12:49:00 <jaromil> see http://tomb.dyne.org for a client that makes it fairly easy on gnu/linux
1914 2011-06-21 12:49:36 <jaromil> joe sixpack has his hd full of pr0n and can choose his fav to hide his key there. easy to remember.
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1916 2011-06-21 12:50:26 <sacarlson> jaromil: ya hard to find in the 1 tera byte colection
1917 2011-06-21 12:50:45 karnac has joined
1918 2011-06-21 12:50:59 <jaromil> very hard, also considering you can choose your algo and that images have high entropy already
1919 2011-06-21 12:51:40 <jaromil> this bitcoin insecurity is a non-issue. its a pity maintainance is so much afraid to make things better...
1920 2011-06-21 12:51:55 <sacarlson> jaromil: ya but I read that file so often I'm sure my disk will crash there
1921 2011-06-21 12:52:23 flykoko has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1922 2011-06-21 12:52:43 <jaromil> sacarlson: of course you should take the path out of your histfile and keep backups of the picture
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1930 2011-06-21 12:55:46 ericmock has joined
1931 2011-06-21 12:56:03 Geebus has joined
1932 2011-06-21 12:56:48 <ericmock> ugh... someone needs to learn to make left quotes in LaTeX ;-)
1933 2011-06-21 12:57:53 viggi has joined
1934 2011-06-21 12:59:04 <enquire> mtgox up?
1935 2011-06-21 12:59:15 jmpespxoreax has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1936 2011-06-21 12:59:19 <MtGox_Adam> hai
1937 2011-06-21 13:01:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> ;;getrating mtgox_adam
1938 2011-06-21 13:01:06 <gribble> Error: This user has not yet been rated.
1939 2011-06-21 13:01:12 <BitcoinForNewegg> spy
1940 2011-06-21 13:01:33 <ericmock> BitcoinForNewegg: you behind bitegg.com?
1941 2011-06-21 13:01:38 <BitcoinForNewegg> no
1942 2011-06-21 13:01:47 <BitcoinForNewegg> i just bought some from jim
1943 2011-06-21 13:01:52 <BitcoinForNewegg> jjjrmy I think
1944 2011-06-21 13:01:59 <ericmock> some? bitcoin?
1945 2011-06-21 13:02:01 <tuoppi> what can be taking so long
1946 2011-06-21 13:02:01 <BitcoinForNewegg> i buy cards, not sell
1947 2011-06-21 13:02:11 scott` has joined
1948 2011-06-21 13:02:13 <BitcoinForNewegg> i have bitcoins and I want mining hardware
1949 2011-06-21 13:02:22 <BitcoinForNewegg> to get bitcoins
1950 2011-06-21 13:02:26 <BitcoinForNewegg> to get mining hardware
1951 2011-06-21 13:02:28 <BitcoinForNewegg> .......
1952 2011-06-21 13:02:38 <ericmock> yea, yea...
1953 2011-06-21 13:02:48 <BitcoinForNewegg> if I cash out..... I have to pay taxes so for now its all in bitcoins and mining hardware
1954 2011-06-21 13:03:04 <ericmock> so, what are you mining with?
1955 2011-06-21 13:03:04 Bossland_ has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
1956 2011-06-21 13:03:20 <BitcoinForNewegg> i have sx dual 6950 on the way
1957 2011-06-21 13:03:26 <BitcoinForNewegg> 2x* not six
1958 2011-06-21 13:03:36 <ericmock> too bad
1959 2011-06-21 13:03:40 <BitcoinForNewegg> so ~1g h/sec soon
1960 2011-06-21 13:03:47 <BitcoinForNewegg> and I got 500 bitcoins left
1961 2011-06-21 13:04:01 <BitcoinForNewegg> *450
1962 2011-06-21 13:04:02 kik- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1963 2011-06-21 13:04:19 KBme has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1965 2011-06-21 13:04:40 <BitcoinForNewegg> dont sell coins to jjjrmy I want his cards :)
1966 2011-06-21 13:04:43 * ericmock will soon be mining with a TESLA S2050
1967 2011-06-21 13:04:49 _W_ has joined
1968 2011-06-21 13:04:49 __gilles has joined
1969 2011-06-21 13:04:50 * BitcoinForNewegg thinks ur dumb
1970 2011-06-21 13:05:10 <BitcoinForNewegg> tesla have large Floating point and crappy integer performance
1971 2011-06-21 13:05:24 * ericmock was kidding ;-)
1972 2011-06-21 13:05:32 <BitcoinForNewegg> so they are like 10x worse for the money
1973 2011-06-21 13:05:36 jimrandomh has joined
1974 2011-06-21 13:05:41 * BitcoinForNewegg is happy to hear that
1975 2011-06-21 13:05:50 hachque has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1976 2011-06-21 13:06:02 DukeOfURL has joined
1977 2011-06-21 13:06:07 * ericmock has one he can use and would like to see what it does
1978 2011-06-21 13:06:22 KBme has joined
1979 2011-06-21 13:06:22 <BitcoinForNewegg> amazon rents them
1980 2011-06-21 13:06:25 DukeOfURL has quit (Client Quit)
1981 2011-06-21 13:06:33 <Wuked> ;;bg,gen
1982 2011-06-21 13:06:35 <gribble> Error: "bg,gen" is not a valid command.
1983 2011-06-21 13:06:40 <BitcoinForNewegg> the new intel chips have RSA in silicon
1984 2011-06-21 13:06:47 <Wuked> ;;bg,gen 30 * 1024 * 1024
1985 2011-06-21 13:06:47 <gribble> Error: "bg,gen" is not a valid command.
1986 2011-06-21 13:06:48 <ericmock> http://rcc.its.psu.edu/resources/hpc/tesla/
1987 2011-06-21 13:06:49 <BitcoinForNewegg> i wonder if that can be used fo rhtis
1988 2011-06-21 13:07:21 <Wuked> ;;bc,gen 30 * 1024 * 1024
1989 2011-06-21 13:07:23 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 30 * 1024 * 1024 Khps, given current difficulty of 877226.66666667 , is 36.0689274532 BTC per day and 1.50287197722 BTC per hour.
1990 2011-06-21 13:07:49 <ericmock> RSA in Si for mining?
1991 2011-06-21 13:07:58 <Wuked> ;;bc,gen 35 * 1024 * 1024
1992 2011-06-21 13:07:59 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 35 * 1024 * 1024 Khps, given current difficulty of 877226.66666667 , is 42.080415362 BTC per day and 1.75335064008 BTC per hour.
1993 2011-06-21 13:08:10 <ericmock> Wuked: pm gribble for that
1994 2011-06-21 13:08:20 <Wuked> I was
1995 2011-06-21 13:08:22 <Wuked> it errors
1996 2011-06-21 13:08:27 <tcatm> we should build a proof-of-work scheme based on FUD. that's hard to do for GPUs and CPUs alike and we could actually use the FUD to make bitcoin stronger :)
1997 2011-06-21 13:08:54 <ericmock> I say we tie bitcoin mining to minecraft
1998 2011-06-21 13:09:51 IoWn3rU has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1999 2011-06-21 13:10:16 IoWn3rU has joined
2000 2011-06-21 13:10:23 Stellar has joined
2001 2011-06-21 13:10:23 <ericmock> BitcoinForNewegg: so what are you putting the cards in?
2002 2011-06-21 13:10:31 sanchaz has quit ()
2003 2011-06-21 13:11:12 <ericmock> cheapy HW?
2004 2011-06-21 13:12:44 Zarutian has joined
2005 2011-06-21 13:18:05 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2006 2011-06-21 13:18:35 kermit has joined
2007 2011-06-21 13:21:57 emock has joined
2008 2011-06-21 13:23:21 <emock> anyone want to brainstorm a proof-of-work concept for both withdrawing coins from your wallet and making exchanges?
2009 2011-06-21 13:25:07 <picci> huh emock ?
2010 2011-06-21 13:25:13 MtGox_Adam has quit (Quit: MtGox_Adam)
2011 2011-06-21 13:26:05 agricocb has joined
2012 2011-06-21 13:26:14 marko has joined
2013 2011-06-21 13:27:06 <emock> just thinking that some kind of proof-of-work idea might be good for withdrawing/exchanging⦠but it's just a preliminary idea and I'm not a security expert.
2014 2011-06-21 13:27:18 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015 2011-06-21 13:28:03 <picci> mtgox is a good example
2016 2011-06-21 13:28:13 <picci> if it was built right...
2017 2011-06-21 13:28:18 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2018 2011-06-21 13:28:22 <emock> was thinking something like you could have two 'wallets' one of which would be a 'vault' which would require some kind of proof-of-work to get coins from it
2019 2011-06-21 13:28:28 <MrSam> hmm
2020 2011-06-21 13:28:32 <MrSam> i'm a bit wondering
2021 2011-06-21 13:28:51 <MrSam> why there is going more energy into 'wallet security' then selfupdating of the clients
2022 2011-06-21 13:28:51 <emock> picci: mtgox has nothing to do with this...
2023 2011-06-21 13:29:11 <picci> then what exchanging are you talking about ?
2024 2011-06-21 13:29:13 <MrSam> by looking at the changelog you can clearly see changes beeing made in things like txfee and stuff
2025 2011-06-21 13:29:16 <emock> wallet security is the hard problem
2026 2011-06-21 13:29:18 galaxyAbstractor has joined
2027 2011-06-21 13:29:23 <MrSam> but nothing enforces the updates of the clients
2028 2011-06-21 13:29:32 <picci> wallet security isn't a hard problem... it's just keeping a file...
2029 2011-06-21 13:29:38 <emock> picci: /exchanging/, not exchanges...
2030 2011-06-21 13:29:42 <picci> it's as if u had ur visa numbers on a file
2031 2011-06-21 13:29:47 <picci> and had to keep that file to yourself
2032 2011-06-21 13:29:48 <MrSam> wallet security is a user problem , clients not beeing update is a network problem
2033 2011-06-21 13:30:06 <emock> MrSam: that's a bad view to have...
2034 2011-06-21 13:30:14 <kinlo> one users wallet stolen is less problematic than all clients not updating and having a major bug in them
2035 2011-06-21 13:30:15 <emock> users don't view it as a user problem
2036 2011-06-21 13:30:38 <kinlo> emock: both need to be adressed, but in the right order
2037 2011-06-21 13:30:48 <dD0T> emock: While it would ultimately limit the amount of money a potential attacker can steal it would be a pretty low barier if you kept the work req. low enough to stay feasible for the user to use
2038 2011-06-21 13:31:10 <emock> dD0T: the point being the user could decide the work level
2039 2011-06-21 13:32:09 <emock> if you got 500k bitcoins you'd presumably have the hardware needed to keep it secure
2040 2011-06-21 13:32:28 <dD0T> emock: I don't see the gain in security
2041 2011-06-21 13:32:33 lumos is now known as spreadsheet_addi
2042 2011-06-21 13:32:45 <upb> haha tcatm good idea
2043 2011-06-21 13:32:55 <dD0T> emock: It would make extraction slower but at the same time make getting the money into a safe spot after the wallet was stolen equally slow
2044 2011-06-21 13:32:57 <emock> kinlo: they can all be addressed at the same time. self updating is for someone else
2045 2011-06-21 13:33:07 spreadsheet_addi is now known as loveSpreadsheets
2046 2011-06-21 13:33:19 <gmaxwell> emock: there would be no asymmetry with pow. You must do work X. Attacker must do work X. If you tolerate X, attacker tolerates X. Attacker can probably use N stolen computers to do the work in X/N time and at no cost at all, so his tolerance is probably greater than yours.
2047 2011-06-21 13:34:17 loveSpreadsheets is now known as pov_addict
2048 2011-06-21 13:34:31 <emock> hmm⦠could you do something like ask the network to do the work (for a fee)?
2049 2011-06-21 13:34:52 pov_addict is now known as posray
2050 2011-06-21 13:35:04 <dD0T> emock: What stops the attacker from doing that
2051 2011-06-21 13:35:09 <kinlo> emock: not really, if you implement secured wallets, you achieved nothing, you still need to get that new version to the users. And none of their clients bug them to update. If you first create an auto-updater, those of the users that upgrade or install the new version are sure to be nagged when you finish the secure wallets
2052 2011-06-21 13:35:34 <emock> kinlo: I'm not saying that isn't a problem⦠it's just not one that interests me, ok?
2053 2011-06-21 13:35:41 <kinlo> ok :)
2054 2011-06-21 13:35:42 <kinlo> fair
2055 2011-06-21 13:35:43 <gmaxwell> emock: Password cracking with strengthening is asymetric because adding X work to each password attempt causes you X more work at each login (because you know your password), but the attacker must do X work per attempted password.
2056 2011-06-21 13:36:03 <kinlo> is anyone working on an auto-updater?
2057 2011-06-21 13:36:12 <gmaxwell> kinlo: at some point new clients stop connecting to the old and people are automagically 'nagged' as a result.
2058 2011-06-21 13:36:42 <kinlo> gmaxwell: or the old clients create their own network ? :)
2059 2011-06-21 13:36:49 <gmaxwell> kinlo: auto-updates = destroying decentralization.
2060 2011-06-21 13:37:05 <gmaxwell> kinlo: not if all the big miners had moved already.
2061 2011-06-21 13:37:14 <megu> gmaxwell: is there a way to invalid the process after n unsuccesful attempts ?
2062 2011-06-21 13:37:19 <gmaxwell> And big miners will never be auto-update.
2063 2011-06-21 13:38:01 <gmaxwell> megu: no. not on a general purpose computer. Or if their was, the attacker would still be best off trying. What does he care if you both lose? He loses if he doesn't try.
2064 2011-06-21 13:38:06 <dD0T> gmaxwell: Auto updates will be neccesary in the future though. Without them reacting to security problems in the software is pretty much impossible :-(
2065 2011-06-21 13:38:16 <megu> sure
2066 2011-06-21 13:38:33 <dD0T> gmaxwell: This wouldn't be a problem with multiple client implementations being used in the wild but as it is....
2067 2011-06-21 13:38:39 <gmaxwell> dD0T: You can't outrun the packets.
2068 2011-06-21 13:38:59 <dD0T> gmaxwell: ?
2069 2011-06-21 13:39:36 <gmaxwell> dD0T: Against a real attack no autoupdate can be fast enough to make a difference, so you'd be compromising trust in the system against manipulation in order to close a narrow set of attack situations.
2070 2011-06-21 13:40:14 <gmaxwell> E.g. if I get some buffer exploit that lets me run code on the bitcoin client, I could have all the wallets within 5 minutes of the attack being visible on the network.
2071 2011-06-21 13:40:40 wasabi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2072 2011-06-21 13:40:57 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2073 2011-06-21 13:41:01 Koalemitos has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2074 2011-06-21 13:41:26 <dD0T> gmaxwell: You assume the populus of btc clients is always online and connected to the network
2075 2011-06-21 13:41:36 <dD0T> gmaxwell: Imho this isn't true for the vast majority of clients
2076 2011-06-21 13:41:37 vokoda has joined
2077 2011-06-21 13:42:25 <gmaxwell> dD0T: at peak something like 90% of the clients ever visible on IRC are online at once.
2078 2011-06-21 13:42:49 <gmaxwell> dD0T: bitcoin is over if I get the wallets from all the online clients right now.
2079 2011-06-21 13:43:04 <gmaxwell> Maybe that changes in the future.
2080 2011-06-21 13:43:49 denorm has joined
2081 2011-06-21 13:44:08 <dD0T> gmaxwell: Oh. The clients let you identify them in the seed channel?
2082 2011-06-21 13:44:14 <dD0T> gmaxwell: That would be strange
2083 2011-06-21 13:44:55 <gmaxwell> dD0T: Just identifying them by ip/port
2084 2011-06-21 13:45:20 aristidesfl has joined
2085 2011-06-21 13:46:09 <dD0T> gmaxwell: I see. Too used to the IP address changing all the time used over here....
2086 2011-06-21 13:46:28 <gmaxwell> Also, the only autoupdate methods which don't create takeover vulnerablities where none existed before are necessarily slow. (They allow people time to veto the update)
2087 2011-06-21 13:46:34 marko has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2088 2011-06-21 13:47:41 <dD0T> gmaxwell: A DOS is a security problem too without it having to end in takeover scenarios
2089 2011-06-21 13:47:49 <gmaxwell> "And none of their clients bug them to update" < this actually can be done today.
2090 2011-06-21 13:47:58 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin has a notice facility.
2091 2011-06-21 13:48:33 <dD0T> gmaxwell: Oh. I get it. No. I wasn't talking about full auto update like chrome does. I was thinking with user interaction but auto downloading
2092 2011-06-21 13:49:06 <dD0T> gmaxwell: Full auto for a client shuffling money around would leave a bad taste ;-)
2093 2011-06-21 13:49:16 <gmaxwell> oh oh sure.
2094 2011-06-21 13:50:15 <gmaxwell> Well some people connected with the tor project had a good proposal... where it auto downloads but holds it, and then additional parties can publish vetos. And the update is only made available after it runs a while with no vetos.
2095 2011-06-21 13:53:27 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2096 2011-06-21 13:53:33 Varan has joined
2097 2011-06-21 13:54:35 <dD0T> gmaxwell: If there's only one client you could even handle that via the blockchain ;-)
2098 2011-06-21 13:55:37 Incitatus has joined
2099 2011-06-21 13:55:41 <MrSam> bleh
2100 2011-06-21 13:55:52 <MrSam> compiling bitcoind takes way longer then finding a block on testnet
2101 2011-06-21 13:55:55 <dD0T> if the last x accepted blocks say this version is ok this means that >50% of the comp power of the network think it's fine.
2102 2011-06-21 13:56:03 <MrSam> and you don't even get a decent reward
2103 2011-06-21 13:57:02 xtalmath has left ()
2104 2011-06-21 13:57:23 <dD0T> MrSam: You get an original matrix-compile-messages-scrolling-by screensaver. Some ppl. even use gentoo just to get that!!111
2105 2011-06-21 13:57:29 <Varan> Is block header only downloading going to be implemented?
2106 2011-06-21 13:57:40 copumpkin has joined
2107 2011-06-21 13:58:35 <MrSam> dD0T: ;)
2108 2011-06-21 13:59:32 <MrSam> not even :/
2109 2011-06-21 13:59:49 <MrSam> there are only few files
2110 2011-06-21 14:00:03 TommyBoy3G has quit ()
2111 2011-06-21 14:00:05 <dD0T> MrSam: No screensaver? I'd complain to get my money back.
2112 2011-06-21 14:00:11 <dD0T> oh wait
2113 2011-06-21 14:00:17 <MrSam> i would but mtgox is down
2114 2011-06-21 14:00:30 <MrSam> oh wait, i bought coins at 0.5
2115 2011-06-21 14:00:37 <MrSam> nevermind it's rolled back
2116 2011-06-21 14:01:06 <MrSam> there is only one option left now
2117 2011-06-21 14:01:21 <MrSam> to build an own exchange , 100% anti rollback -As seen on Tv
2118 2011-06-21 14:01:35 <cacheson> heh
2119 2011-06-21 14:01:50 <dD0T> oO
2120 2011-06-21 14:01:51 <cacheson> "rest assured, when we get compromised, we're going to let all those crazy trades stand!"
2121 2011-06-21 14:02:05 <wumpus> lol
2122 2011-06-21 14:02:17 <MrSam> :)
2123 2011-06-21 14:02:24 <MrSam> could be a great aad
2124 2011-06-21 14:02:25 <MrSam> ad
2125 2011-06-21 14:02:32 <wumpus> hack us, and get away with it!
2126 2011-06-21 14:02:45 <MrSam> well it would be unhackable offcourse
2127 2011-06-21 14:02:52 <cacheson> so what's going on with gox now? their status page isn't even loading
2128 2011-06-21 14:03:12 <MrSam> he's still counting the money he made from the transaction fee's
2129 2011-06-21 14:03:13 <wumpus> too many people f5'ing it probably
2130 2011-06-21 14:03:13 <midnightmagic> Is for me..
2131 2011-06-21 14:03:23 <cacheson> did they announce that they were open again, and get crushed by a stampede?
2132 2011-06-21 14:03:33 <dD0T> cacheson: Dunno but I hope they stay down for a while to shape things up
2133 2011-06-21 14:03:49 <dD0T> from what I heard/saw the last few days i don't have the best impression of that page
2134 2011-06-21 14:03:59 <ericmock> so, what're the predictions for what happens when mtgox is back online?
2135 2011-06-21 14:04:03 <MrSam> well
2136 2011-06-21 14:04:05 <dD0T> (not talking about it being compromised per-se)
2137 2011-06-21 14:04:06 <cacheson> dD0T: well, I want my damn money at least :P
2138 2011-06-21 14:04:09 <wumpus> dD0T: well let people at least get our money out in that case
2139 2011-06-21 14:04:11 <MrSam> i was using the same login / pass for my google talk
2140 2011-06-21 14:04:17 galaxyAbstractor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2141 2011-06-21 14:04:20 <MrSam> so now some hacker is chatting in my place with my wife
2142 2011-06-21 14:04:20 zapnap has joined
2143 2011-06-21 14:04:40 <dD0T> Ah well. That's something different. You should get your money back ofc but trading imho is out of the question
2144 2011-06-21 14:04:46 <ericmock> will the exch rate spike up/down? hold steady?
2145 2011-06-21 14:05:00 <wumpus> yeah I don't care if they hold trading for a while, might be better to improve security
2146 2011-06-21 14:05:34 <wumpus> but holding people's money/coins is very bad
2147 2011-06-21 14:05:36 weinerk has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2148 2011-06-21 14:05:55 galaxyAbstractor has joined
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2150 2011-06-21 14:06:10 <dD0T> Bad situation for them though. It's not like they can just reopen and allow ppl. to use their leaked logons to withdraw funds; -)
2151 2011-06-21 14:06:39 <ericmock> actually, I think they're handling it fairly well... so far
2152 2011-06-21 14:06:41 <wumpus> yes they need to add some verification of some kind
2153 2011-06-21 14:07:11 <gmaxwell> but howâ the attackers often changed people's email addresses.
2154 2011-06-21 14:07:27 <wumpus> for example, only withdraw to addresses that were already used for depositing
2155 2011-06-21 14:07:37 <dD0T> gmaxwell: The did oO. That means a lot of manual work
2156 2011-06-21 14:08:19 Kiba has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2157 2011-06-21 14:08:23 f33x has quit (Quit: f33x)
2158 2011-06-21 14:08:27 <dD0T> wumpus: You can't let that be wide open either. Those accounts could be black holes by now
2159 2011-06-21 14:09:15 <nefario> Anyone here have cuddlefish's email by any chance
2160 2011-06-21 14:09:21 <gmaxwell> dD0T: well, people are saying it was done to them. Obviously I can't know how much of that was done.
2161 2011-06-21 14:09:24 Varan has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2162 2011-06-21 14:09:40 <nefario> I've been trying to get ahold of him but haven't have any success with the forum
2163 2011-06-21 14:09:42 <dD0T> gmaxwell: He can restore them from the leaked db haha ;-)
2164 2011-06-21 14:09:43 pnicholson has joined
2165 2011-06-21 14:09:55 <dD0T> gmaxwell: I meant to say backup *coughcough*
2166 2011-06-21 14:09:59 <wumpus> I hope he made regular backups :p
2167 2011-06-21 14:10:01 <wumpus> lol
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2190 2011-06-21 14:34:25 no has joined
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2195 2011-06-21 14:37:17 <Joric> is blockexplorer reliable? are there any mirrors?
2196 2011-06-21 14:38:02 pyros1 has joined
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2198 2011-06-21 14:38:08 <BlueMatt> yes they tend to be very reliable, its run by theymos? (IIRC)
2199 2011-06-21 14:38:09 pyros1 has joined
2200 2011-06-21 14:38:25 <BlueMatt> dont know of any mirrors
2201 2011-06-21 14:39:11 posray has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2205 2011-06-21 14:43:07 Geebus is now known as Geebus|Sleep
2206 2011-06-21 14:43:20 <lianj> BlueMatt: btw, should the wire-protocol's getdata (tx) still answer with a transaction once the tx is found in a block? or asked differently can i still get the first tx of block-0 by asking for its hash?
2207 2011-06-21 14:43:44 <phantomcircuit> lianj, yes you can still do that
2208 2011-06-21 14:44:17 <lianj> hm, tried that yesterday and it didnt work on very low blocks :( that why i got confused
2209 2011-06-21 14:44:59 galaxyAbstractor has left ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chatta smidigt. Ãverallt.")
2210 2011-06-21 14:45:04 * BlueMatt spends more time on wallet + ui stuff, instead of net which is a terrible mess
2211 2011-06-21 14:45:45 <lianj> BlueMatt: ok, thanks anw
2212 2011-06-21 14:46:21 <lianj> phantomcircuit: can you try a getdata (tx) on 0437cd7f8525ceed2324359c2d0ba26006d92d856a9c20fa0241106ee5a597c9
2213 2011-06-21 14:46:45 * lianj dinner now.. brb
2214 2011-06-21 14:46:55 <BlueMatt> maybe there is a timeout or smth to keep from ddosing by making the client read really old data that isnt cached or smth?
2215 2011-06-21 14:47:06 <BlueMatt> no that wouldnt make sense to harm old blocks I dont think
2216 2011-06-21 14:47:14 <BlueMatt> I dont think bitcoin is anywhere near that smart
2217 2011-06-21 14:47:47 <Diablo-D3> why the fuck is theymos never on irc
2218 2011-06-21 14:48:22 Speeder has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2219 2011-06-21 14:48:24 <BlueMatt> because he has a life...unlike the rest of us?
2220 2011-06-21 14:48:40 <echelon> no one comes on irc anymore once they're reached celeb status :/
2221 2011-06-21 14:48:48 <echelon> they've*
2222 2011-06-21 14:48:51 <Diablo-D3> echelon: well, honestly
2223 2011-06-21 14:49:01 <Diablo-D3> I HAVE been thinking about taking the big three channels off my autojoin
2224 2011-06-21 14:49:51 <Diablo-D3> because lets face it
2225 2011-06-21 14:49:55 <Diablo-D3> you're all annoying fucks most of the time
2226 2011-06-21 14:50:00 <BlueMatt> dev is relatively low-traffic
2227 2011-06-21 14:50:00 <BlueMatt> but if you want to skip the noobs, you can skip #bitcoin and otc
2228 2011-06-21 14:50:08 <BlueMatt> as are you
2229 2011-06-21 14:50:11 <echelon> why\
2230 2011-06-21 14:50:24 <Diablo-D3> -mining can get bad
2231 2011-06-21 14:50:37 <Optimo> next diff is coming hard
2232 2011-06-21 14:50:41 <Optimo> and fast
2233 2011-06-21 14:50:45 <Diablo-D3> like your mom?
2234 2011-06-21 14:51:27 <iera> #dev is the only one that is ok
2235 2011-06-21 14:53:03 <emock> Diablo-D3: what's got you this lovely Tuesday morning (EST)?
2236 2011-06-21 14:53:06 Speeder has joined
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2238 2011-06-21 14:54:15 <Diablo-D3> emock: meh, some douchebag on the forum is pissing me off
2239 2011-06-21 14:54:21 <Diablo-D3> and theymos didnt give me user banning powers
2240 2011-06-21 14:54:36 Mattus has joined
2241 2011-06-21 14:54:38 jimpsson has joined
2242 2011-06-21 14:54:59 <Mattus> hi everybody
2243 2011-06-21 14:55:09 <jimpsson> h3ll0
2244 2011-06-21 14:55:15 <Mattus> i have one question with the pushpool and bitcoind
2245 2011-06-21 14:55:22 <emock> pissing you off or being a general jerk?
2246 2011-06-21 14:55:48 <Diablo-D3> emock: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6667.msg257775#msg257775
2247 2011-06-21 14:56:11 <BlueMatt> Diablo-D3: if you had banning powers, the forum would consist of...you
2248 2011-06-21 14:56:52 <Diablo-D3> blueMatt: so?
2249 2011-06-21 14:56:53 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: in enough time the forum will consist of only him even without banning powers.
2250 2011-06-21 14:57:06 <gmaxwell> (and I doubt he sees a problem with that)
2251 2011-06-21 14:57:16 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: with the amount of bullshit going on at any one time
2252 2011-06-21 14:57:21 <Diablo-D3> maybe the forums should be abolished
2253 2011-06-21 14:57:31 <emock> isn't there enough pool competition?
2254 2011-06-21 14:57:44 <cacheson> Diablo-D3: sounds good
2255 2011-06-21 14:58:02 <cacheson> I was thinking more "jettisoned", but whatevs
2256 2011-06-21 14:58:47 <emock> I mean it seems to me that people join pools with no thoughtâ¦
2257 2011-06-21 14:58:48 PPilate is now known as Pilate
2258 2011-06-21 14:59:09 Perpetuum has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2259 2011-06-21 14:59:14 <emock> and it seems like a really easy place to 'skim' work
2260 2011-06-21 15:00:00 nefario has joined
2261 2011-06-21 15:00:29 <megu> guys if you will allow me, what is happening to the forums and , globally, to bitcoin, shows an issue at a higher level. I think the internet recent "hype" systems are too fast for any project to progress in good conditions
2262 2011-06-21 15:00:56 gsathya has quit (Quit: gsathya)
2263 2011-06-21 15:00:57 <BlueMatt> well people can sit around and talk forever, but there are people who are actually making progress
2264 2011-06-21 15:01:12 <BlueMatt> admittedly not as quick as the community has grown
2265 2011-06-21 15:01:23 <megu> I mean you are working on a nice project, then suddently the whole planet looks at you , talks about you, messes everything, and you have the biggest difficulties to communicate correctly
2266 2011-06-21 15:02:02 phearful has joined
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2268 2011-06-21 15:03:08 <Optimo> emock: how's CocoaBitcoin coming?
2269 2011-06-21 15:03:18 <emock> good actually...
2270 2011-06-21 15:04:08 <emock> just figuring out how to convert all the wx stuff for converting the raw data to strings to cocoa equivs.
2271 2011-06-21 15:04:12 LanceRushing has quit (Quit: LanceRushing)
2272 2011-06-21 15:04:15 <emock> gotta run to meeting now.
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2277 2011-06-21 15:06:25 <K_F> coincidence, I just got out of my last meeting for the day.. so time to actually start working on the things I was supposed to do all day anyways
2278 2011-06-21 15:07:41 Mattus has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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2282 2011-06-21 15:10:12 <Joric> is there any machine readable list of unconfirmed transations?
2283 2011-06-21 15:11:13 <Joric> trying to implement merchant service it takes years until transaction gets confirmed
2284 2011-06-21 15:11:14 unclemantis has joined
2285 2011-06-21 15:11:55 <Joric> thought maybe it's worth to credit visitors asap
2286 2011-06-21 15:12:21 <Namegduf> Run a bitcoin node
2287 2011-06-21 15:12:27 <Namegduf> You'll receive them as they're broadcast
2288 2011-06-21 15:12:49 <Joric> i don't want to pay for VPS
2289 2011-06-21 15:13:02 baronze500 has joined
2290 2011-06-21 15:13:12 BTCTrader has joined
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2292 2011-06-21 15:13:22 pyro__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2304 2011-06-21 15:19:33 <K_F> then you probably shouldn't run a merchant service..
2305 2011-06-21 15:19:51 sammyH has joined
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2307 2011-06-21 15:22:40 <lfm> and vps are cheap
2308 2011-06-21 15:23:01 <K_F> very cheap, indeed
2309 2011-06-21 15:23:10 <K_F> granted depends on the resources needed
2310 2011-06-21 15:23:22 <MrSam> :)
2311 2011-06-21 15:23:25 <Akinava> hello, I know how to use OpenSSL to make pref key $openssl ecparam -name prime256v1 -genkey -outform DER | xxd
2312 2011-06-21 15:23:31 <K_F> but I quite like dynamic memory scaling that is found in hypervisors now'
2313 2011-06-21 15:23:32 <Akinava> how to cut it out of only 265-bit key?
2314 2011-06-21 15:23:40 <lfm> true, the cheapest ones sometimes can't handle bitcoind
2315 2011-06-21 15:23:42 <Joric> so there's no any list of unconfirmed transactions available?
2316 2011-06-21 15:24:06 <K_F> I typically throw up 4 CPU cores and 512 - 8192 MB RAM
2317 2011-06-21 15:24:17 <K_F> but I see that most of the machines are running around 600 MB RAM utilized
2318 2011-06-21 15:24:47 <Akinava> 7 bit it is options
2319 2011-06-21 15:25:04 <K_F> except for on my home VM host, anyways, my workstation VMs are running around a few gig each
2320 2011-06-21 15:27:25 dissipate has joined
2321 2011-06-21 15:27:28 <K_F> reminds me, I should look into a new rig for monitors to use connecting to the VMs
2322 2011-06-21 15:28:45 <K_F> any recommendations? I figure this can be used as a mining rig as well if properly set up
2323 2011-06-21 15:29:06 <lfm> K_F: has GPU?
2324 2011-06-21 15:29:16 <K_F> I'm thinking 6 or 8 monitors (2 in hight and 3 or 4 wide)
2325 2011-06-21 15:29:20 d0ggcoin has joined
2326 2011-06-21 15:29:48 <K_F> but otherwise really require quite little resources, due to it being run on VM hosts anyways
2327 2011-06-21 15:30:03 <K_F> so should be relatively small case..
2328 2011-06-21 15:30:04 <lfm> dont run mining in VM
2329 2011-06-21 15:30:35 pwrcycle has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2330 2011-06-21 15:30:42 <K_F> lfm: well, that actually works as well, but indeed, was thinking of using GPU in the new monitor-host-computer-thingie
2331 2011-06-21 15:30:55 <K_F> or possibly GPUs, probably need a few for 8 monitors
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2334 2011-06-21 15:31:34 <lfm> could prolly run 5 monitors on 2 gpu
2335 2011-06-21 15:31:39 <lfm> 6 I mean
2336 2011-06-21 15:31:43 Akinava has quit (Quit: УÑ
Ð¾Ð¶Ñ Ñ Ð¾Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ)
2337 2011-06-21 15:32:05 <d0ggcoin> is there any way to send btc from a specific address ?
2338 2011-06-21 15:32:20 <lfm> d0ggcoin: not really
2339 2011-06-21 15:32:22 <K_F> lfm: yeah, 6 monitors might be enough in my living room anyways
2340 2011-06-21 15:32:25 <d0ggcoin> so if you have received btc at 3 addresses, you just want to send from one of them, like to 0 out one of them, w/o pulling btc out of the other addresses
2341 2011-06-21 15:32:35 <K_F> would be rather interesting with 8 though :p
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2343 2011-06-21 15:32:37 <d0ggcoin> lfm, yea i tried 'sendfrom' on bitcoind and even that pulled from other addresses
2344 2011-06-21 15:32:43 <d0ggcoin> why is that ?
2345 2011-06-21 15:32:49 mrtnt1 has joined
2346 2011-06-21 15:32:57 <lfm> d0ggcoin: you can use accounts but theyre not exactly like addresses
2347 2011-06-21 15:33:11 <d0ggcoin> why isn't there a sendfromaddress function ?
2348 2011-06-21 15:33:23 <d0ggcoin> I'm pretty sure this account was exactly like the addres though, because its balance and the balnce on blockexplorer for that address were exactly the same
2349 2011-06-21 15:33:25 dbasch has joined
2350 2011-06-21 15:33:39 <lfm> d0ggcoin: kinda pointless and counterproductive for most apps
2351 2011-06-21 15:33:43 cacheson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2352 2011-06-21 15:33:44 <d0ggcoin> or are you saying accounts are just an abstraction teh bitcoin client provides
2353 2011-06-21 15:33:50 <d0ggcoin> but it doesnt really link them to the address underneaath
2354 2011-06-21 15:34:05 <d0ggcoin> just seems confusing, so you're baiscally saying I have to code my own client to be able to send from a specific address ?
2355 2011-06-21 15:34:20 <lfm> d0ggcoin: if you send from an account it deducts from that account total even if it sends from a different address
2356 2011-06-21 15:34:35 <d0ggcoin> yea, i noticed that which brought me here :)
2357 2011-06-21 15:34:53 <lfm> d0ggcoin: you need to adjust your expectations so you dont need to send from specific address
2358 2011-06-21 15:35:15 <d0ggcoin> lfm, thanks for telling me what i need to do when you have no idea about what i'm doing :)
2359 2011-06-21 15:35:16 <K_F> or use multiple accounts..
2360 2011-06-21 15:35:24 d0ggcoin has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2361 2011-06-21 15:35:29 <lfm> yup use accounts, not addresses
2362 2011-06-21 15:36:19 <lfm> the connection between addresses and accounts is for incomming amounts only
2363 2011-06-21 15:36:38 cronopio has quit (Quit: leaving)
2364 2011-06-21 15:36:50 <lfm> they can be quite usable once you understand them
2365 2011-06-21 15:37:20 * K_F goes back to thinking out specs for this monitor-thing
2366 2011-06-21 15:38:47 cronopio has joined
2367 2011-06-21 15:39:20 <lfm> dogg I assumed I knew what you wanted cuz we get those questions about twice a day here!
2368 2011-06-21 15:40:20 bk128 has joined
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2378 2011-06-21 15:52:59 d1234 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2382 2011-06-21 15:53:40 [DusT] has joined
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2387 2011-06-21 16:00:36 <phantomcircuit> user_id | password_hash | password_salt | password_iterations | password_timestamp
2388 2011-06-21 16:00:37 <phantomcircuit> 7 | \x70617373776f7264 | \x3561396537643430316531353032626134303030313334616334306362313632 | 10 | 2011-06-21 17:58:40.187876
2389 2011-06-21 16:00:41 <anddam> bye
2390 2011-06-21 16:00:43 anddam has left ()
2391 2011-06-21 16:00:46 <phantomcircuit> password is password
2392 2011-06-21 16:00:54 <phantomcircuit> first person to tell me the algorithm gets a cookie
2393 2011-06-21 16:01:07 <CIA-103> bitcoin: wyze * rf5669442eda4 mining-proxy/htdocs/admin/workers.php: Missing parameters on function and passing the variable along to another function caused Internal Server Error. Fixes issue #17. http://tinyurl.com/6expleh
2394 2011-06-21 16:01:08 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Chris Howie * r5cd0b3395041 mining-proxy/htdocs/admin/workers.php: Merge pull request #20 from wyze/master http://tinyurl.com/5wzaed5
2395 2011-06-21 16:01:25 tobeabstract has joined
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2397 2011-06-21 16:02:30 blueadept has joined
2398 2011-06-21 16:03:44 <wardearia> hint: phantomcircuit doesn't actually have any cookies
2399 2011-06-21 16:04:04 <Optimo> phantomcircuit, I'm just happy to not see camelCase for your column names
2400 2011-06-21 16:04:12 weinerk has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2401 2011-06-21 16:04:21 devon_hillard has joined
2402 2011-06-21 16:04:29 <Optimo> camelcase trend is alarming
2403 2011-06-21 16:04:30 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: omg security via obsecurity.
2404 2011-06-21 16:04:39 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, lol
2405 2011-06-21 16:04:46 <phantomcircuit> here is a clue
2406 2011-06-21 16:04:59 <phantomcircuit> there is information missing
2407 2011-06-21 16:05:00 <phantomcircuit> rofl
2408 2011-06-21 16:05:42 <gmaxwell> [chr(x) for x in [0x70,0x61,0x73,0x73,0x77,0x6f,0x72,0x64]]
2409 2011-06-21 16:05:50 <gmaxwell> ['p', 'a', 's', 's', 'w', 'o', 'r', 'd']
2410 2011-06-21 16:06:21 <copumpkin> we need a code eval bot in here
2411 2011-06-21 16:06:28 <gmaxwell> Whats sad is I didn't need the computer, I just recognized the ascii.
2412 2011-06-21 16:06:28 * copumpkin thinks we should get geordi and lambdabot
2413 2011-06-21 16:06:29 <phantomcircuit> ZOMG HOW DID YOU KNWO
2414 2011-06-21 16:06:29 <copumpkin> :P
2415 2011-06-21 16:06:34 LanceRushing has joined
2416 2011-06-21 16:06:38 <gmaxwell> prhaps I shouldn't admit that.
2417 2011-06-21 16:06:38 <dehuman> gmaxwell: that is either sad or awesome
2418 2011-06-21 16:06:41 <dD0T> gmaxwell: I was about to try that ;-)
2419 2011-06-21 16:06:43 <dehuman> personally iwas pretty amazed
2420 2011-06-21 16:06:57 <Gekz> oh, I thought that was a joke
2421 2011-06-21 16:06:57 <dehuman> you just say that said password?
2422 2011-06-21 16:07:02 <dehuman> lolwtf
2423 2011-06-21 16:07:04 <Gekz> I didnt say anything because it was so obvious
2424 2011-06-21 16:07:05 <Gekz> lololo
2425 2011-06-21 16:07:06 LanceRushing has quit (Client Quit)
2426 2011-06-21 16:07:12 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: so, where is that from?
2427 2011-06-21 16:07:18 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, rofl yeah i have some baller php code for calculating hashes and i looked at it and was like
2428 2011-06-21 16:07:18 <phantomcircuit> wait
2429 2011-06-21 16:07:22 <phantomcircuit> rofl
2430 2011-06-21 16:07:26 <Optimo> heh first thing I tried in my head was ascii code for letter
2431 2011-06-21 16:07:30 <Optimo> but I fail at maths
2432 2011-06-21 16:07:30 <phantomcircuit> i forgot $hash = mhash
2433 2011-06-21 16:07:44 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: or maybe he killed your account for disclosing (non-specifically) the csrfs
2434 2011-06-21 16:08:00 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, we'll see
2435 2011-06-21 16:08:02 <jrmithdobbs> err wrong window
2436 2011-06-21 16:08:35 <dehuman> is that re: mtgox?
2437 2011-06-21 16:08:48 vinsci has joined
2438 2011-06-21 16:08:52 <jrmithdobbs> dehuman: yes
2439 2011-06-21 16:09:07 <dehuman> so wait accounts have been arbitrarily closed?
2440 2011-06-21 16:09:14 <dehuman> funds refunded?
2441 2011-06-21 16:10:06 <dehuman> or nunya
2442 2011-06-21 16:10:24 tobeabstract has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2443 2011-06-21 16:10:27 malaimo has quit (Quit: leaving)
2444 2011-06-21 16:10:28 <gmaxwell> wtf.
2445 2011-06-21 16:10:35 <gmaxwell> "The new password is not secure enough. Security tips include using special characters, make the password longer, etc..."
2446 2011-06-21 16:10:43 malaimo has joined
2447 2011-06-21 16:10:47 <gmaxwell> 16 character mixedcase/alphnum from a RNG.
2448 2011-06-21 16:10:57 <dD0T> gmaxwell: oO. Your RNG must clearly suck
2449 2011-06-21 16:11:10 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: needs special chars
2450 2011-06-21 16:11:20 <dehuman> gmaxwell: yah its lame
2451 2011-06-21 16:11:28 <dehuman> i used apg and it yelled at me
2452 2011-06-21 16:11:32 <dehuman> i was like 'lolwut?'
2453 2011-06-21 16:11:34 <gmaxwell> yea, adding a '!' makes it oh so secure.
2454 2011-06-21 16:11:48 Gxxxx has joined
2455 2011-06-21 16:11:49 <dehuman> gmaxwell: haha thats what i did too
2456 2011-06-21 16:12:00 <dehuman> 'fuck you mtgox, !, as if that tacked onto the end matters'
2457 2011-06-21 16:12:02 <gmaxwell> dehuman: it's what everyone does against "you must have a symbol"
2458 2011-06-21 16:12:16 <dehuman> generally i specifically dont do that
2459 2011-06-21 16:12:36 <Optimo> abstract thinking time. what about a changed protocol where jay I roll opticoins: I make it so that all 21 bajillion are in my wallet to start, with mining taking place without prizes... then the transactions system and whatnot still works. turnign the circulation into a centralized problem - would that not break the system (bitcoin ideals aside)
2460 2011-06-21 16:12:45 <dehuman> but this time i was like 'are you fucking serious? i just spent 5 minutes staring at a list of apg passwords picking one i can remember and say
2461 2011-06-21 16:13:00 <Optimo> could I do this?
2462 2011-06-21 16:13:24 <dehuman> normally my symbols of choice are $ and #
2463 2011-06-21 16:13:25 <BlueMatt> damn we need bruce wagner doing more media interviews
2464 2011-06-21 16:13:34 phearful has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2465 2011-06-21 16:13:44 SecretSJ has joined
2466 2011-06-21 16:13:53 <gmaxwell> Optimo: congrats, you've invented beertokens.
2467 2011-06-21 16:14:06 BTCTrader has joined
2468 2011-06-21 16:14:35 <Optimo> gmaxwell, I was thinking more like facebookcoin or visacoin etc
2469 2011-06-21 16:14:41 baronze500 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2470 2011-06-21 16:15:01 <phantomcircuit> Optimo, so you like getting sued into oblivion :P
2471 2011-06-21 16:15:09 <Optimo> for what?
2472 2011-06-21 16:15:53 <dehuman> hahaha
2473 2011-06-21 16:16:10 <dehuman> does it matter optimo?
2474 2011-06-21 16:16:25 <dehuman> the actual merits of any lawsuit(s) would almost certainly be moot
2475 2011-06-21 16:16:32 <jeremias> how do beertokens work?
2476 2011-06-21 16:16:34 <dehuman> from the likes of facebook or visa
2477 2011-06-21 16:16:34 <Optimo> I don't follow
2478 2011-06-21 16:16:40 <Optimo> I was asking about a dev thing
2479 2011-06-21 16:16:51 <dehuman> simply having a large company point there lawsuit cannon at you could destroy you
2480 2011-06-21 16:17:01 <jeremias> is there any truly innovative new features in these alternative cryptocurrencies?
2481 2011-06-21 16:17:04 <dehuman> Optimo: re: the names facebook or visa attached to coin
2482 2011-06-21 16:17:11 <jeremias> like faster payments or something like that?
2483 2011-06-21 16:17:14 <Optimo> those weren't name ideas
2484 2011-06-21 16:17:14 <dehuman> Optimo: you would get sued by the companies that own those trademarks
2485 2011-06-21 16:17:24 <Optimo> I was associating motives
2486 2011-06-21 16:17:44 <Optimo> for the above idea, which is just a slightly modified bitcoin
2487 2011-06-21 16:17:50 <sacarlson> jeremias: beertokens have not even been minted yet
2488 2011-06-21 16:17:53 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
2489 2011-06-21 16:18:17 <Optimo> ok so 'beertokens' is something I will look into
2490 2011-06-21 16:18:25 <gmaxwell> Optimo: facebook doesn't even need anything likebitcoin they can just have their own ecash system. (In fact, don't they already?)
2491 2011-06-21 16:18:25 <Optimo> I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this
2492 2011-06-21 16:18:28 <dD0T> Optimo: Why would the company in question want to do that ;-)
2493 2011-06-21 16:18:47 <Optimo> it's not about any particular company, no company in question
2494 2011-06-21 16:18:50 <sacarlson> jeremias: we are still not sure of the final method or quantity of beertokens to be preminted and posibly linked transaction into bitcoin chain
2495 2011-06-21 16:19:08 <Optimo> I'm just asking if that is a trivial thing to change in the code
2496 2011-06-21 16:19:21 <Optimo> and ultimately 'possible' to run it
2497 2011-06-21 16:19:37 <Optimo> sacarlson link?
2498 2011-06-21 16:19:46 <Optimo> forums?
2499 2011-06-21 16:20:12 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2500 2011-06-21 16:20:27 <sacarlson> Optimo: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9493.0
2501 2011-06-21 16:21:05 <Optimo> thanks
2502 2011-06-21 16:21:19 <lfm> Optimo: yes you could do that. No it would not work well since it would no longer be distributed. It would be centralized around you.
2503 2011-06-21 16:21:28 octarine1 has left ()
2504 2011-06-21 16:21:28 <sacarlson> Optimo: the original plan was to make an alternate chain about the same as weeds but we have found weakness in this plan
2505 2011-06-21 16:21:54 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
2506 2011-06-21 16:22:28 dukeleto has joined
2507 2011-06-21 16:23:01 <Optimo> lfm, the processing could still be distributed (for fees)
2508 2011-06-21 16:23:24 <Optimo> centralized distribution of coins, decentralized processing and verification of tx
2509 2011-06-21 16:23:39 <Optimo> everyone just has to agree at first that my wallet has all coins
2510 2011-06-21 16:24:05 <Optimo> beertokens...great reader for me today. thanks again
2511 2011-06-21 16:24:26 <lfm> Optimo fees are chickenfeed! You would be wasting a lot of the features of bitcoin and still paying the costs.
2512 2011-06-21 16:24:29 <sacarlson> Optimo: the centralized section would be just people moving into and out of the trust, tradeing and using the currency would not require using the exchange
2513 2011-06-21 16:24:46 vokoda has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2515 2011-06-21 16:25:04 <Optimo> lfm, maybe I would pay them in bitcoin to process opticoin
2516 2011-06-21 16:25:22 <Optimo> but I see your point
2517 2011-06-21 16:25:43 <lfm> Optimo: there are much more direct ways of doing what you propose without using bitcoin systems
2518 2011-06-21 16:25:55 <Optimo> yes you are coorect
2519 2011-06-21 16:26:13 <sacarlson> Optimo: yes one option would be to pay transaction fee's in bitcoin to transact in other alternate currencies
2520 2011-06-21 16:27:02 <Optimo> I will keep baking my idea... ;p
2521 2011-06-21 16:27:20 <sacarlson> Optimo: until your network got big enuf and you could have enuf minners running to create your own security
2522 2011-06-21 16:27:36 anddam has joined
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2524 2011-06-21 16:28:14 <lfm> Optimo: and a LARGE part of the attraction of bitcoin is the mining and the absence of a central authority. if you take away those you just have yet another virtual currency
2525 2011-06-21 16:28:30 <Optimo> that's fine, that's the goal of the idea
2526 2011-06-21 16:28:44 <Optimo> that is attractive for some applications
2527 2011-06-21 16:28:55 <lfm> Optimo: the goal is to have no interest in it?
2528 2011-06-21 16:29:04 <Optimo> but I understand that there are maybe better ways to skin the cat
2529 2011-06-21 16:29:06 anddam has left ()
2530 2011-06-21 16:29:20 <Optimo> just an exercise in understanding system
2531 2011-06-21 16:30:03 SomeoneWeird has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2532 2011-06-21 16:30:11 Teslah has joined
2533 2011-06-21 16:30:21 <sacarlson> Optimo: the main problem with bitcoin is it's unstable value, there needs to be something, not sure what to pigy back on it to some how stabalize it or create something a bit different
2534 2011-06-21 16:30:34 <lfm> Optimo: ya , of course it looks good to be the central authority but look at it from outside.
2535 2011-06-21 16:31:01 <AlonzoTG> The main problem with bitcoin is that the client doesn't yet work.
2536 2011-06-21 16:31:07 <TD> BlueMatt: why, did he do a good job?
2537 2011-06-21 16:31:19 <Optimo> lfm, the applciation in mind is not necessarily for a money currency but a debt holder maybe
2538 2011-06-21 16:31:22 <TD> there are lots of problems with bitcoin .....
2539 2011-06-21 16:31:23 netto2 has joined
2540 2011-06-21 16:31:25 <sacarlson> AlonzoTG: the client doesn't work?
2541 2011-06-21 16:31:30 <lfm> AlonzoTG: the client works fine for 1000s of people, whats your problem with it?
2542 2011-06-21 16:31:36 <AlonzoTG> It needs a reliable build that is not dependant on specific legacy versions of external libraries, and has been debugged to the highest standards of quality.
2543 2011-06-21 16:31:52 <BlueMatt> TD: yea, on a bloomberg thing someone linked here a couple minutes ago
2544 2011-06-21 16:32:02 <lfm> AlonzoTG: oh is that all. trivial concerns
2545 2011-06-21 16:32:03 <BlueMatt> (well it was really brief, but he appeared very professional, etc)
2546 2011-06-21 16:32:22 <TD> that's good. when i've seen things he's written before, it always came over as sensationalist and a bit scammy
2547 2011-06-21 16:32:25 <TD> let me take a look
2548 2011-06-21 16:32:51 <AlonzoTG> they're trivial only after they've been taken care of. ;)
2549 2011-06-21 16:32:54 <BlueMatt> dunno, dont read much from him, but that particular 1 minute seemed professional
2550 2011-06-21 16:33:01 <Optimo> I think there's an 'eventuality' a state of teh bitcoin system in some far future that is very very close to stable. whenprograms are doing much of the work and trades and less people mucking it up ;
2551 2011-06-21 16:33:04 <TD> ok
2552 2011-06-21 16:33:06 <BlueMatt> though maybe he is slightly more sensationalist, in which case I take that back
2553 2011-06-21 16:33:18 <lfm> AlonzoTG: naw, they're only important to a tiny number of people like you
2554 2011-06-21 16:33:39 <sacarlson> AlonzoTG: my bitcoind has ran 24/7 for 3 or more weeks strait with no failures
2555 2011-06-21 16:33:53 <TD> lol
2556 2011-06-21 16:34:01 MBS has joined
2557 2011-06-21 16:34:01 <TD> "the currency is created by geeks who use powerful hardware"
2558 2011-06-21 16:34:05 weinerk has joined
2559 2011-06-21 16:34:08 emock is now known as Optitroll
2560 2011-06-21 16:34:19 <BlueMatt> yea, well what they said is wrong, but what he said sounds good
2561 2011-06-21 16:34:22 weinerk has quit (Changing host)
2562 2011-06-21 16:34:22 weinerk has joined
2563 2011-06-21 16:34:28 * BlueMatt was just impressed by good delivery
2564 2011-06-21 16:34:29 <TD> yeah
2565 2011-06-21 16:34:32 <AlonzoTG> In order to install bitcoin, I'll have to install an old version of Boost, a fairly large package only because bitcoin still uses some deprecated boost calls.
2566 2011-06-21 16:34:35 <lfm> td reletivly powerfull, not really very powerfull
2567 2011-06-21 16:34:40 <TD> heh
2568 2011-06-21 16:34:46 gsathya has joined
2569 2011-06-21 16:34:47 <TD> the bitcoin atm
2570 2011-06-21 16:35:07 <TD> yeah it's a good segment
2571 2011-06-21 16:35:14 <lfm> TD: if you call a $300 atom "powerfull" ok ya
2572 2011-06-21 16:35:16 <AlonzoTG> When I tried to hack on it, I couldn't compile it because it doesn't have a workable build system, either automake or cmake would be perfectly acceptable.
2573 2011-06-21 16:35:17 <TD> it's amazing the way the press has run with this story
2574 2011-06-21 16:35:26 <TD> AlonzoTG: i think there is a pending merge for autotools support
2575 2011-06-21 16:35:33 <TD> everyone knows the client isn't exactly a work of art
2576 2011-06-21 16:35:43 m00p has joined
2577 2011-06-21 16:35:48 <AlonzoTG> Good, I'll re-evaluate bitcoin at that time and fix the boost dependency.
2578 2011-06-21 16:36:01 <lfm> cmake sucks
2579 2011-06-21 16:36:14 <Joric> speaking of powerfull hardware i've read an article, with ati 5770 it takes only 24 days to find any 8 char alphanumeric mixed case password
2580 2011-06-21 16:36:20 m00p has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
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2583 2011-06-21 16:36:28 <BlueMatt> TD: not really, its a great story to run with: "something on the internet, which we dont understand to begin with, is being used by crazy people to buy drugs and alpaca socks; they are doing something illegal, and since we are just fearmongers anyway, it fits with our message"
2584 2011-06-21 16:36:37 <Joric> 4x6990 rig will probably do it for 2-3 days
2585 2011-06-21 16:36:42 <Optitroll> likes CaMeLcAsE
2586 2011-06-21 16:36:44 jsnyder has joined
2587 2011-06-21 16:36:47 <lfm> AlonzoTG: acually I think people have been working on such things for a long time now, they just havnt got anything usefull yet
2588 2011-06-21 16:36:47 <TD> well the media coverage has been across the whole spectrum, imho
2589 2011-06-21 16:36:56 m00p has joined
2590 2011-06-21 16:37:00 <sacarlson> joric: 8 char in what md5?
2591 2011-06-21 16:37:16 <Joric> yeah md5
2592 2011-06-21 16:37:24 <TD> some of it more level headed than others
2593 2011-06-21 16:37:38 <sacarlson> joric most people use more advanced sha1 or better
2594 2011-06-21 16:37:52 <BlueMatt> TD: true, /me is surprised fox hasnt started calling obama a socialist because he isnt fighting bitcoin which is corrupting the youth or smth
2595 2011-06-21 16:38:02 <TD> heh
2596 2011-06-21 16:38:29 <Joric> BlueMatt, didn't know he isn't fighting bitcoin )
2597 2011-06-21 16:38:55 <lfm> I thot bitcoin was capitolist
2598 2011-06-21 16:39:13 dbasch has joined
2599 2011-06-21 16:39:16 <BlueMatt> Joric: if he wanted to, all he has to do is declare it illegal and no one with any power will touch it...making it unable to keep up its growth
2600 2011-06-21 16:39:22 <lfm> capitalist
2601 2011-06-21 16:39:28 Atterall has quit (Quit: leaving)
2602 2011-06-21 16:39:33 <BlueMatt> lfm: true, but fox generally hates everything now, even stuff that they loved a year ago
2603 2011-06-21 16:40:00 <BlueMatt> esp the internet
2604 2011-06-21 16:40:13 <JFK911> i just registered a new 'entity' at dmv
2605 2011-06-21 16:40:20 <xelister> BlueMatt: fox? fox news/
2606 2011-06-21 16:40:28 <JFK911> i'm going to write bills of sale that state that vehicles were purchased for bitcions
2607 2011-06-21 16:40:31 <lfm> bluematt ya if they hate it som much they should take down their web sites
2608 2011-06-21 16:40:32 <JFK911> how are they going to tax that
2609 2011-06-21 16:40:59 <Optitroll> y'all see John Stewart on Fox News the other night?
2610 2011-06-21 16:41:01 <BlueMatt> xelister: yea fox news
2611 2011-06-21 16:41:10 <lfm> JFK911: same way they make you pay income tax on barter exchanges
2612 2011-06-21 16:41:15 <BlueMatt> Optitroll: link I need to see that
2613 2011-06-21 16:41:24 Optitroll is now known as emock
2614 2011-06-21 16:41:27 <sacarlson> JFK911: I guess it would be hard since the value changes by the time you do your tax you will owe them more money than you made
2615 2011-06-21 16:41:59 <emock> http://gothamist.com/2011/06/20/video_jon_stewart_says_the_times_bi.php
2616 2011-06-21 16:42:03 <JFK911> they want to compute sales tax when they issue title
2617 2011-06-21 16:42:07 <emock> awesome interview
2618 2011-06-21 16:42:14 <midnightmagic> lfm: some barter exchanges. Personal barter exchanges here in Canada aren't taxed.
2619 2011-06-21 16:42:41 <Joric> http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/ - what's 'unconfirmed'? only known to one node? there's at least two participated nodes
2620 2011-06-21 16:42:47 <midnightmagic> a service for a good, or a good for a service. Only if you do it to extract a living value out of it it's taxed, I think.
2621 2011-06-21 16:42:59 <Joric> i mean those with red 'unconfirmed'
2622 2011-06-21 16:43:51 skeledrew1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3pre)
2623 2011-06-21 16:44:51 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2624 2011-06-21 16:44:52 <lfm> joric unconfirmed is less than 6 block deep in the block chain
2625 2011-06-21 16:45:20 da2ce7 has joined
2626 2011-06-21 16:45:25 skeledrew has joined
2627 2011-06-21 16:45:37 <lfm> Joric: generally all nodes know of a txn before it even gets 1 confirmed block
2628 2011-06-21 16:46:11 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2629 2011-06-21 16:46:16 karnac has joined
2630 2011-06-21 16:46:19 <emock> so, how the heck does something like the dropbox no-password thing happen?
2631 2011-06-21 16:46:22 BabyGeek has joined
2632 2011-06-21 16:46:36 Slober has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2633 2011-06-21 16:46:39 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2634 2011-06-21 16:46:47 <Joric> lfm, that 5 nodes threshold is it artificial? due to probability?
2635 2011-06-21 16:46:51 Mononofu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2636 2011-06-21 16:47:07 <lfm> Joric: it isnt nodes, it is blocks
2637 2011-06-21 16:47:17 Mononofu has joined
2638 2011-06-21 16:47:29 <lfm> Joric: and it is somewhat arbitrary trade off between security and speed ya
2639 2011-06-21 16:47:36 <Joric> ah ok got it
2640 2011-06-21 16:48:15 lbatalha has quit (Quit: Cya)
2641 2011-06-21 16:48:25 <Joric> so it basically increments by 1 every 10 minutes
2642 2011-06-21 16:48:26 pyros1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2643 2011-06-21 16:48:53 <lfm> joric if you wished to use a different threshold for your own purposes you would be free to do so with the understanding you might get ripped off if you make it too small
2644 2011-06-21 16:49:05 BlueMatt has joined
2645 2011-06-21 16:49:24 BabyGeek has left ("Quitte")
2646 2011-06-21 16:52:09 <Joric> did anyone see theymos here?
2647 2011-06-21 16:53:04 <lfm> Joric: ideally it would be about 1 block every 10 min ya but currently Average interval last 144 blocks: 5.95 min
2648 2011-06-21 16:53:19 mosimo has joined
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2650 2011-06-21 16:53:38 <TheSeven> MagicalTux: how can one submit a claim request for an account whose password was changed?
2651 2011-06-21 16:54:06 <TheSeven> apparently one can only initiate your fancy multi-factor auth thing if one has the current password of the account?
2652 2011-06-21 16:54:09 <Joric> theymos just replied about displaying unverified transactions, said it's on to-do list, and he has much of the code written already
2653 2011-06-21 16:54:17 <lfm> TheSeven: is it still the same email address?
2654 2011-06-21 16:54:29 weinerk has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2655 2011-06-21 16:54:43 <TheSeven> yeah, but I can't request the claim request email if the password isn't correct
2656 2011-06-21 16:54:47 <emock> shouldn't he have a log of changes?
2657 2011-06-21 16:54:48 <Joric> would be usefull to speed up trades (it takes 10 minutes for now, only to start)
2658 2011-06-21 16:55:07 weinerk has joined
2659 2011-06-21 16:55:10 <lfm> TheSeven: no forgot password option any more?
2660 2011-06-21 16:55:13 <emock> changes to passwords/emails/etc
2661 2011-06-21 16:55:27 <TheSeven> nope
2662 2011-06-21 16:55:29 <MagicalTux> [01:52:43] <TheSeven> MagicalTux: how can one submit a claim request for an account whose password was changed? <- I'll add a "I forgot my password" checkbox soon
2663 2011-06-21 16:55:40 <netto2> how long are claims taking? i started mine like 3 hours ago..
2664 2011-06-21 16:56:06 <jeremias> lol, 60k something claims to do...
2665 2011-06-21 16:56:09 <MagicalTux> [01:54:46] <netto2> how long are claims taking? i started mine like 3 hours ago.. <- there's a 24 hours cooldown delay to see if any other claims comes for the same account
2666 2011-06-21 16:56:21 <MagicalTux> once reached 24 hours, either the claim is processed automatically, or manually
2667 2011-06-21 16:56:23 <netto2> ah, ok
2668 2011-06-21 16:56:40 weinerk has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2669 2011-06-21 16:57:00 <emock> nice new logo ;-)
2670 2011-06-21 16:57:07 <DaQatz> MagicalTux, can Magic penguins fly?
2671 2011-06-21 16:57:20 weinerk has joined
2672 2011-06-21 16:57:40 * copumpkin hands MagicalTux some acid
2673 2011-06-21 16:57:59 <MagicalTux> I'll have some sleep, already 2am
2674 2011-06-21 16:58:03 <TheSeven> MagicalTux: thanks for the information... well, for my account it's not critical anyway as it was pretty much virgin
2675 2011-06-21 16:58:43 <upb> imho at this point nothing should be 'hacked quickly' to do 'something' :/
2676 2011-06-21 16:58:49 <upb> . // hacked quickly to do something
2677 2011-06-21 16:59:43 <casascius> MagicalTux deserves a beer
2678 2011-06-21 16:59:56 vorlov has joined
2679 2011-06-21 17:00:00 larsivi has joined
2680 2011-06-21 17:00:16 weinerk has quit (Client Quit)
2681 2011-06-21 17:00:36 <Txyru> v
2682 2011-06-21 17:00:37 <Txyru> This is interesting, someone is running a bitcoin node from NASA. (eithich.jpl.nasa.gov)
2683 2011-06-21 17:00:38 <MagicalTux> upb: javascript is not critical
2684 2011-06-21 17:01:14 <casascius> many of those accounts in the csv looked bogus - algorithmically generated by a robot - and probably won't need to be reverified
2685 2011-06-21 17:01:25 weinerk has joined
2686 2011-06-21 17:01:29 d1g1t4l has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2687 2011-06-21 17:01:34 <ahbritto_> MagicalTux: What happens if some jerk uses the old passwd file to start disputing claims?
2688 2011-06-21 17:02:18 <JFK911> then they should be reading your email if they have any hope to claim your account
2689 2011-06-21 17:02:47 <MagicalTux> ahbritto_: hopefully they won't have enough infos about the withdraws on that account
2690 2011-06-21 17:02:48 <lfm> upb ya we should all just let our account sit for weeks while all the code is audited and stuff?
2691 2011-06-21 17:03:42 <Txyru> MagicalTux, and probably wont have time to bruteforce all the passes
2692 2011-06-21 17:03:53 <tuoppi> MagicalTux: what's the ETA for account claims and opening the site for trading?
2693 2011-06-21 17:03:53 Clipse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2694 2011-06-21 17:04:24 <MagicalTux> Txyru: hopefully
2695 2011-06-21 17:04:34 <MagicalTux> tuoppi: will see depending on the amount of claims we can process automatically
2696 2011-06-21 17:05:07 casascius has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2697 2011-06-21 17:05:46 <upb> lfm: so instead you're suggesting that the mechanism to re-authenticate account owners should include components that are quickly thrown together ?:P
2698 2011-06-21 17:08:08 <upb> i agree that js is not THAT critical
2699 2011-06-21 17:09:22 <Speeder> MagicalTux: oh, you are here.
2700 2011-06-21 17:09:29 <MagicalTux> no, I sleep
2701 2011-06-21 17:09:35 Clipse has joined
2702 2011-06-21 17:09:39 <Speeder> MagicalTux: what are the password rules? I am making more and more absurd passwords and it still say it is weak
2703 2011-06-21 17:09:40 <Speeder> O.O
2704 2011-06-21 17:10:00 <MagicalTux> Speeder: try to make it 10~12 chars, include lowercase, uppercase, nums, symbols
2705 2011-06-21 17:10:05 <Speeder> I tried that
2706 2011-06-21 17:10:06 <MagicalTux> and add a space to spice things, if you want :)
2707 2011-06-21 17:10:12 <Optimo> space?
2708 2011-06-21 17:10:19 * emock didn't use uppercase
2709 2011-06-21 17:10:23 <MagicalTux> yep, unlike tweeter we allow spaces
2710 2011-06-21 17:10:24 <Speeder> I tried things like asdlkj4oiusdASjg[][][
2711 2011-06-21 17:10:28 <Speeder> and it still failed
2712 2011-06-21 17:10:29 <MagicalTux> you can even put non-ascii chars
2713 2011-06-21 17:10:43 <MagicalTux> Speeder: did you put the same password in both fields? :p
2714 2011-06-21 17:10:47 <Speeder> yes
2715 2011-06-21 17:10:49 <emock> my no-uppercase temp password worked
2716 2011-06-21 17:10:57 <Speeder> it said my password was not strong enough
2717 2011-06-21 17:10:58 <Speeder> OO
2718 2011-06-21 17:11:02 <MagicalTux> emock: it must have been long enough, or contains other stuff
2719 2011-06-21 17:11:04 <Optimo> MagicalTux, that toasty guy is a well-respected dude. I hope you guys can smooth things out
2720 2011-06-21 17:11:29 mrtnt2 has joined
2721 2011-06-21 17:11:31 <MagicalTux> Optimo: let's hope
2722 2011-06-21 17:11:40 * Speeder returns to fight MagicalTux's password system.
2723 2011-06-21 17:11:42 <MagicalTux> anyway I'm too busy fixing stuff
2724 2011-06-21 17:11:48 mrtnt1 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2725 2011-06-21 17:12:21 <BlueMatt> god how many emails does tradehill have to send to mtg accounts, seriously I will never consider signing up there since I got like 20 emails from them
2726 2011-06-21 17:12:31 <devrandom> hi BlueMatt
2727 2011-06-21 17:12:32 <BlueMatt> how the hell do they expect to look profession when doing that?
2728 2011-06-21 17:12:37 <BlueMatt> hey devrandom
2729 2011-06-21 17:12:48 <devrandom> back in town?
2730 2011-06-21 17:12:58 <BlueMatt> not till late tomorrow
2731 2011-06-21 17:13:50 <devrandom> I'll be away for a few days starting tomorrow... anything I should look at before then re gitian and 0.04?
2732 2011-06-21 17:13:55 vigilyn has joined
2733 2011-06-21 17:14:07 <devrandom> should I send a pull request for the download script?
2734 2011-06-21 17:14:30 <BlueMatt> you mean to bitcoin?
2735 2011-06-21 17:14:47 <BlueMatt> dont know, 0.4 is still a ways off as Im gonna rewrite wallet crypto from the ground up
2736 2011-06-21 17:14:52 <devrandom> yeah
2737 2011-06-21 17:15:00 gsathya has quit (Quit: gsathya)
2738 2011-06-21 17:15:12 <Optimo> BlueMatt good on ya
2739 2011-06-21 17:15:13 <ersi> BlueMatt: I bet quite some of those are from TradeHills stupid fucking referal thingie, and not from Tradehill
2740 2011-06-21 17:15:19 <devrandom> okay, so I won't worry about release schedule yet
2741 2011-06-21 17:15:29 <ersi> But yeah, way to go like not looking like a pyramid scheme
2742 2011-06-21 17:15:36 <BlueMatt> devrandom: hmmm...dont know, maybe
2743 2011-06-21 17:15:48 <BlueMatt> ersi: ah, well it still makes me not want to join there
2744 2011-06-21 17:16:22 <ersi> Yeah, it's not all that strategic
2745 2011-06-21 17:16:38 <BlueMatt> devrandom: Ill take a look at all that stuff as soon as wallet crypto is written and Ill try to make sure a full download system is ready to go by the first rc (or mid-rcs if jgarzik doesnt do any betas)
2746 2011-06-21 17:16:46 <ersi> But who cares about strategy! It's all about cramming it down peoples throats! That's what matters
2747 2011-06-21 17:16:54 tac-tics has left ()
2748 2011-06-21 17:16:56 <BlueMatt> though I might get finished with that stuff before first rc/beta if rc takes long after crypto
2749 2011-06-21 17:17:10 ionspin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2750 2011-06-21 17:17:14 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: -rc is essentially the first beta. it just means that we don't merge new features after -rc1
2751 2011-06-21 17:18:14 vigilyn has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2752 2011-06-21 17:18:20 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ah, sorry I dont pay attention to how the kernel does releases...fair enough
2753 2011-06-21 17:18:35 vigilyn has joined
2754 2011-06-21 17:18:48 <BlueMatt> devrandom: so Ill try to make sure its all working by first rc, if not, by second
2755 2011-06-21 17:19:04 <devrandom> jgarzik: so the download script should be pulled before rc1 to get in? it's basically ready for testing
2756 2011-06-21 17:19:31 <BlueMatt> (working being == put in a nice-looking nsis installer or smth)
2757 2011-06-21 17:19:43 <devrandom> I'm not absolutely sure that it should go into the bitcoin source tree, since it is auto-generated from a template
2758 2011-06-21 17:19:44 RAM2012 has joined
2759 2011-06-21 17:20:03 <jgarzik> devrandom: there are a few exceptions, such as sticking new files into contrib/, that might come after -rc1.
2760 2011-06-21 17:20:15 <jgarzik> devrandom: but for the most part, the "merge window" closes at -rc1
2761 2011-06-21 17:20:39 <devrandom> ok
2762 2011-06-21 17:20:53 <BlueMatt> in that case, Id say no
2763 2011-06-21 17:20:53 * BlueMatt wants to remove all the binary mos as well, as soon as autotools is pulled and I get around to i
2764 2011-06-21 17:20:54 <BlueMatt> t
2765 2011-06-21 17:20:55 <BlueMatt> devrandom: though the template probably should be there beside the build descriptor
2766 2011-06-21 17:21:16 <devrandom> I guess the real question is whether the download script goes on http://bitcoin.org/ as a download option
2767 2011-06-21 17:21:53 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
2768 2011-06-21 17:21:59 <devrandom> maybe saying that it is "experimental"
2769 2011-06-21 17:22:06 <BlueMatt> Id say yes, though maybe not in 0.4...get it going with 0.4 as a beta and then when its been tested put it up on the site
2770 2011-06-21 17:22:25 <BlueMatt> Id say keep experimental stuff on the announce thread on the forums first, then later on main page
2771 2011-06-21 17:22:35 <devrandom> ok
2772 2011-06-21 17:23:10 <devrandom> since it doesn't affect the binary, the main page can be updated with the script after it is more widely tested
2773 2011-06-21 17:23:19 <sturles> MagicalTux: 16 charcter password with small and capital letters, special characters and numbers. The recovery page still claims: "The new password is not secure enough. Security tips include using special characters, make the password longer, etc..."
2774 2011-06-21 17:23:49 <sturles> MagicalTux: A hint about the rules would be nice.
2775 2011-06-21 17:24:05 <BlueMatt> devrandom: true, we could do that too, gitian download option doesnt have to follow bitcoin release schedule at all
2776 2011-06-21 17:24:22 <BlueMatt> still, target it as a download option for 0.4 right with release is the target imo
2777 2011-06-21 17:24:35 <devrandom> ok, sounds godo
2778 2011-06-21 17:24:36 <devrandom> good
2779 2011-06-21 17:26:37 alanp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2780 2011-06-21 17:26:41 sipa has joined
2781 2011-06-21 17:28:05 <MagicalTux> sturles: add a space for extra kick
2782 2011-06-21 17:30:48 prax_ has joined
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2785 2011-06-21 17:32:05 <sturles> Thanks, that worked.
2786 2011-06-21 17:32:11 <devrandom> :-D
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2819 2011-06-21 17:58:19 <dinox> Hmm, I'm trying to send a tx with custom privkey, is there any easy way to do that?
2820 2011-06-21 17:59:18 <dinox> I'm not good in c++ either, so rewriting bitcoind is not an option..
2821 2011-06-21 18:00:20 Jefff has joined
2822 2011-06-21 18:00:39 <sipa> define custom?
2823 2011-06-21 18:00:54 TheZimm has joined
2824 2011-06-21 18:00:59 <jrmithdobbs> dinox: no not easily
2825 2011-06-21 18:01:08 <jrmithdobbs> even assuming it's the right kind of ecdsa key
2826 2011-06-21 18:02:03 <vrs> MagicalTux: does claim.mtgox.com speak unicode? I am absolutely sure I have entered the right password
2827 2011-06-21 18:02:03 <lfm> dinox custom privkey? and your "not good in c++"?! why on earth would you even attempt such a feat?
2828 2011-06-21 18:02:05 germanMNY has joined
2829 2011-06-21 18:02:23 <dinox> sipa: Like I have a ec priv key, an amount and a dest address and I want to sign a tx with that info and broadcast it
2830 2011-06-21 18:02:49 pogden has joined
2831 2011-06-21 18:03:02 <lfm> dinox: and why the hell cant you just use a standard bitcoin send?
2832 2011-06-21 18:03:10 <sipa> and you have inputs matching the address that corresponds to that priv key?
2833 2011-06-21 18:03:28 <dinox> sipa: of course
2834 2011-06-21 18:03:36 <ersi> vrs: how's unicode passwords working out for you on other sites? :)
2835 2011-06-21 18:04:00 <dinox> lfm: because the privkey isn't in my wallet, and I dont want it there either
2836 2011-06-21 18:04:00 <vrs> it worked on the old mtgox
2837 2011-06-21 18:04:07 <lfm> dinox bitcoin isnt for sending secret messages you know!
2838 2011-06-21 18:04:39 Sickness\ is now known as SabbieSucks
2839 2011-06-21 18:05:11 <dinox> lfm: lol, it's just the bombcodes for my next terrorattack ;)
2840 2011-06-21 18:05:16 <dinox> or not
2841 2011-06-21 18:05:42 MaTee has joined
2842 2011-06-21 18:05:50 <lfm> dinox well if you are trying to send stuff not in your wallet I dont think there is anything anyone can do to help you really
2843 2011-06-21 18:06:11 alanp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2845 2011-06-21 18:06:25 <vrs> hm, claim is down anyway now
2846 2011-06-21 18:06:42 karnac has joined
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2848 2011-06-21 18:07:15 <dinox> lfm: Ok, thanks anyway!
2849 2011-06-21 18:07:29 phearful has joined
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2851 2011-06-21 18:07:55 <dinox> Btw, to sign a transaction and send it, I dont need the public key, right?
2852 2011-06-21 18:08:08 <dinox> _my_ public key
2853 2011-06-21 18:08:18 <Optimo> stupid claim formed fucked me already
2854 2011-06-21 18:08:30 alanp_ has joined
2855 2011-06-21 18:08:33 <Optimo> common textarea for multiple dropdown options
2856 2011-06-21 18:08:43 <lfm> dinox if you have your private key you should be able to calculate your public key I think
2857 2011-06-21 18:09:39 <Optimo> MagicalTux: I pulled down 'last balance' from the dropdown, filled in some stuff then accidentally pulled the dropdown again to 'dwolla account' and then eventually submitted as such, so my last balance info is being submitted as dwolla account proof
2858 2011-06-21 18:09:45 pmazur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2859 2011-06-21 18:09:56 <TheZimm> Optimo hi ;D
2860 2011-06-21 18:09:57 SabbieSucks is now known as birdpoop
2861 2011-06-21 18:10:16 <dinox> lfm: hmm, I thought the priv/pub keys was symmetric.. But even if I cant calc the public key, is it needed for the signing/sending?
2862 2011-06-21 18:10:44 birdpoop has quit (Disconnected by services)
2863 2011-06-21 18:10:48 <jrmithdobbs> you can definitely calculate the pubkey
2864 2011-06-21 18:10:52 <jrmithdobbs> and yes it is absolutely necessary
2865 2011-06-21 18:10:57 Sylph has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2866 2011-06-21 18:11:03 <lfm> dinox not sure of the details of ecdsa but I think you only need the private key
2867 2011-06-21 18:11:20 <jrmithdobbs> oh wait, you need the recv side's pubkey
2868 2011-06-21 18:11:21 Sylph has joined
2869 2011-06-21 18:11:44 <lfm> the address ya
2870 2011-06-21 18:12:21 <lianj> yea, the signsig when claiming this tx then only needs the pubkey
2871 2011-06-21 18:12:31 <lianj> *scriptsig
2872 2011-06-21 18:12:48 alanp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2873 2011-06-21 18:12:54 <[Tycho]> Looks like LR withdraws sent from mtGox before the hack were cancelled too :(
2874 2011-06-21 18:13:09 <lfm> lianj um not quite I dont think
2875 2011-06-21 18:13:09 gentz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2877 2011-06-21 18:13:52 <sipa> dinox: if you have the privkey, finding the pubkey is trivial
2878 2011-06-21 18:14:14 <lianj> besides the point that you have the pubkey anw when you have its privkey. for signing a tx you only need its privkey
2879 2011-06-21 18:14:16 vragnaroda has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2880 2011-06-21 18:14:47 <sipa> scriptSig contains pubkey+pubkey for send-to-address transaction
2881 2011-06-21 18:14:47 alanp_ has joined
2882 2011-06-21 18:14:52 <Optimo> MagicalTux: one of the proof methods should be a list of some of teh last few btc withdraws..
2883 2011-06-21 18:14:53 <sipa> eh
2884 2011-06-21 18:14:59 <Optimo> (I included that in my Balance answer)
2885 2011-06-21 18:15:05 <sipa> pibkey+signature
2886 2011-06-21 18:15:09 <sipa> pubkey
2887 2011-06-21 18:15:25 <dinox> sipa: Hmm, I think I need to learn some about ec-signing then
2888 2011-06-21 18:15:39 <jrmithdobbs> dinox: openssl binary can do it
2889 2011-06-21 18:15:51 <jrmithdobbs> you'll have to convert from base64 tho
2890 2011-06-21 18:15:57 Sylph has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2891 2011-06-21 18:16:12 <lfm> jrmithdobbs: base58?
2892 2011-06-21 18:16:40 vragnaroda has joined
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2894 2011-06-21 18:17:32 <dinox> ah, from privkey -> pubkey
2895 2011-06-21 18:17:33 <dinox> openssl ec -in key.pem -pubout -out pubkey.pem
2896 2011-06-21 18:19:47 Scheintod has joined
2897 2011-06-21 18:20:27 <lfm> dinox you know about the different scripts if the txn is to an address or to a PUB KEY?
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2901 2011-06-21 18:21:32 <midnightmagic> god i hate the stupid openssl cli.
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2908 2011-06-21 18:23:01 <dinox> lfm: no, isn't it possible to convert a pubkey to an address?
2909 2011-06-21 18:23:33 <lfm> dinox ya, but you cant convert back, the address is essentially a hash of the pub key
2910 2011-06-21 18:23:48 ionspin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2911 2011-06-21 18:23:59 <lianj> dinox: yes. but from address you only get a hash160 of its pubkey back
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2915 2011-06-21 18:24:27 <lfm> dinox so you need different scripts to spend each type also
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2919 2011-06-21 18:25:43 <dinox> aaahhh
2920 2011-06-21 18:26:01 <dinox> And from a pubkey it is possible to get the privkey?
2921 2011-06-21 18:26:01 El-Loco has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2922 2011-06-21 18:26:10 <lfm> dinox no
2923 2011-06-21 18:26:11 <lianj> noooo
2924 2011-06-21 18:26:14 <lianj> hehe
2925 2011-06-21 18:26:16 <dinox> hmm
2926 2011-06-21 18:26:32 <dinox> why then hash the pubkey?
2927 2011-06-21 18:26:43 <lfm> the priv key is the secret. it wouldnt be secret if you could do that
2928 2011-06-21 18:27:07 blaupunk has left ()
2929 2011-06-21 18:27:38 <lfm> the address is just a kinda shorthand for sending to: something, the address is shorter than a full pub key
2930 2011-06-21 18:27:40 stuhood has joined
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2932 2011-06-21 18:27:58 <dinox> lfm: ah
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2934 2011-06-21 18:28:03 Gxxxx has left ("Leaving.")
2935 2011-06-21 18:28:59 Scheintod has left ()
2936 2011-06-21 18:29:07 <dinox> hmm, it seems like the easiest way is to use sipa's showwallet and import the privkey, spend and then remove it from wallet
2937 2011-06-21 18:29:14 <lfm> pub key is 65 bytes. hash is 20 bytes
2938 2011-06-21 18:29:17 blueadept has joined
2939 2011-06-21 18:29:45 <ius> ;;later tell theymos can you fix the smiley urls on forums? they're atm referenced by ip instead of the domain
2940 2011-06-21 18:29:45 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
2941 2011-06-21 18:30:46 topace has joined
2942 2011-06-21 18:30:47 <dinox> it's a damn dirty way tho..
2943 2011-06-21 18:30:55 stuhood has left ()
2944 2011-06-21 18:31:21 <lfm> yup. the code is dirty to try to make it usable for people
2945 2011-06-21 18:31:50 ionspin_ is now known as ionspin
2946 2011-06-21 18:36:04 <lfm> take 65 byte pubkey do ripem160(sha256(key)) to get a 20 byte hash then do sha256(sha256(hash)) only use the first 4 bytes as a checksum and add a "net" byte (zero or 111) then convert to base 58 using a custom char set used only by bitcoin to get addresses
2947 2011-06-21 18:36:35 Sylph has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2952 2011-06-21 18:41:44 dukeleto has quit (Excess Flood)
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2955 2011-06-21 18:42:47 <lfm> addresses are variable length up to 34 chars
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2959 2011-06-21 18:50:20 TheZimm is now known as TheZimm|away
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2963 2011-06-21 18:59:22 <Joric> is there any plans to include oclminer into the client
2964 2011-06-21 19:00:15 <Diablo-D3> wtf is oclminer
2965 2011-06-21 19:00:53 <sipa> Joric: there are no plans to extend any of the mining functionalities of the client
2966 2011-06-21 19:00:59 datagutt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2967 2011-06-21 19:01:21 netsky has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2968 2011-06-21 19:01:25 <Joric> sipa, why?
2969 2011-06-21 19:01:43 <sipa> mining is more and more becoming a specialized business
2970 2011-06-21 19:01:53 <sipa> and there are much better specialized tools for that
2971 2011-06-21 19:01:53 netto2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2972 2011-06-21 19:01:54 blueadept has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2973 2011-06-21 19:02:59 MaTee has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2976 2011-06-21 19:04:43 ericmock has quit (Quit: ericmock)
2977 2011-06-21 19:05:17 <ersi> Besides, GPU mining is almost as boring as CPU mining these days. You won't get far unless you "get serious"
2978 2011-06-21 19:05:35 Pinion has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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2986 2011-06-21 19:10:05 <tess24224> Hi has someone got mtgox_client.exe they can send?
2987 2011-06-21 19:11:13 never_sleep has joined
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2996 2011-06-21 19:15:42 <tess24224> Does anyone have this mtgox_client.exe please??
2997 2011-06-21 19:16:20 <tess24224> I am looking for days
2998 2011-06-21 19:16:32 vokoda has joined
2999 2011-06-21 19:16:41 dishwara has joined
3000 2011-06-21 19:17:35 <tess24224> matching md5: a0320d76acc51f17cbb4b9f111dfaf60
3001 2011-06-21 19:17:55 <MMavipc> What's an account and how does it relate to an address?
3002 2011-06-21 19:18:24 TheZimm is now known as away!~TheZimm@c-98-226-5-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net|TheZimm
3003 2011-06-21 19:18:28 o_0oo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
3004 2011-06-21 19:18:33 <sipa> MMavipc: an account is a virtual balance kept by the client
3005 2011-06-21 19:18:38 <tess24224> You only have an account if you use an exchange
3006 2011-06-21 19:18:55 <tess24224> otherwise there is no such thing if you are sending payments direct via address,IP etc
3007 2011-06-21 19:19:02 <sipa> MMavipc: addresses can be assigned to accounts, in which case payments to that address will credit that account
3008 2011-06-21 19:19:14 <sipa> MMavipc: for sending, the default account is always debited
3009 2011-06-21 19:19:17 B0g4r7_ has joined
3010 2011-06-21 19:19:22 <sipa> unless you use the rpc call sendfrom
3011 2011-06-21 19:19:59 <iera> tess24224: i have it
3012 2011-06-21 19:20:07 <tess24224> iera, please share
3013 2011-06-21 19:20:24 <iera> tess24224: ping me later, ill send it then
3014 2011-06-21 19:20:50 <tess24224> ok, no problems, did you run it?
3015 2011-06-21 19:21:00 <iera> tess24224: no, i have linux anyway
3016 2011-06-21 19:21:26 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3017 2011-06-21 19:21:26 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
3018 2011-06-21 19:21:28 <tess24224> ok, that's fine i will ask later;
3019 2011-06-21 19:21:35 <tess24224> thanks.
3020 2011-06-21 19:21:36 <iera> tess24224: in 2 hours or so
3021 2011-06-21 19:21:46 <tess24224> ok i stay awake
3022 2011-06-21 19:21:56 <tess24224> But it seems many users already running this
3023 2011-06-21 19:22:06 <tess24224> mtgox_client.exe
3024 2011-06-21 19:22:23 <tess24224> only ikarus and NOD32 update defs last night
3025 2011-06-21 19:22:31 <tess24224> otherwise undetectable
3026 2011-06-21 19:22:52 oozyburglar has joined
3027 2011-06-21 19:23:05 tobeabstract has joined
3028 2011-06-21 19:24:19 <coderrr> is there any site that has stats on testnet ?
3029 2011-06-21 19:24:40 d1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3030 2011-06-21 19:24:52 <sipa> blockexpexlorer.com/testnet
3031 2011-06-21 19:24:56 <coderrr> thx
3032 2011-06-21 19:25:00 <Titeuf_87> coderrr, blockexplorer has a testnet version
3033 2011-06-21 19:25:03 <sipa> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet
3034 2011-06-21 19:25:05 <Titeuf_87> bah, too slow
3035 2011-06-21 19:25:14 enquire has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3036 2011-06-21 19:25:14 <D0han> tess24224: another btc stealing programm?
3037 2011-06-21 19:25:21 <tess24224> this one more serious
3038 2011-06-21 19:25:30 <tess24224> other before is terrible code
3039 2011-06-21 19:25:43 <tess24224> look like 12 year old wrote it
3040 2011-06-21 19:25:57 <tess24224> there are 3 variations on 'infostealer'
3041 2011-06-21 19:26:41 <tess24224> but i find some logs to show user infected with SpyEye and logging to mtgox before breach and afterwards users infected with mtgox_client
3042 2011-06-21 19:27:05 <tess24224> mt gox statement says 'auditor' infected. and i think this is the same maybe
3043 2011-06-21 19:27:17 Txyru has joined
3044 2011-06-21 19:27:25 <D0han> any topic on forum about that?
3045 2011-06-21 19:27:33 aristidesfl has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3046 2011-06-21 19:27:36 <tess24224> yes:
3047 2011-06-21 19:27:42 <tess24224> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19929.0
3048 2011-06-21 19:27:49 Evious has joined
3049 2011-06-21 19:27:52 <D0han> thx
3050 2011-06-21 19:28:06 <tess24224> And here further details
3051 2011-06-21 19:28:07 <tess24224> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20222.0
3052 2011-06-21 19:28:44 <tess24224> This hacker is harvesting logins
3053 2011-06-21 19:29:00 <tess24224> It doesn't matter if anyone change password
3054 2011-06-21 19:29:33 <D0han> first link require login
3055 2011-06-21 19:30:17 <Titeuf_87> tess24224, seen this thread too: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19910.0 ?
3056 2011-06-21 19:30:36 <tess24224> first link is some initial analysis on file by a member 'jhfire' or something; checks that the mt_gox client.exe connects to hackers server
3057 2011-06-21 19:30:37 <Titeuf_87> oh yes you have
3058 2011-06-21 19:30:49 <tess24224> @titeuf.. ok checking
3059 2011-06-21 19:31:02 <sivu> it's bad that the websites don't usually offer "delete account" option
3060 2011-06-21 19:31:17 <sivu> or changing of login name
3061 2011-06-21 19:31:19 <Titeuf_87> this was just a follow up thread that linked to the original one
3062 2011-06-21 19:31:20 ezl_ has joined
3063 2011-06-21 19:31:27 <tess24224> Yes, definately
3064 2011-06-21 19:32:30 <tess24224> But my issue is: mt gox admins talking about how their machine was compromised, but they don't seem interested in following this
3065 2011-06-21 19:32:33 vigilyn has joined
3066 2011-06-21 19:33:14 <Titeuf_87> Didn't this just get mailed to everyone that got their email leaked?
3067 2011-06-21 19:33:39 <tess24224> That is the thing: I check this hackers database and he is attacking BEFORE
3068 2011-06-21 19:34:00 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3069 2011-06-21 19:34:01 TheZimm is now known as TheZimm|away
3070 2011-06-21 19:34:08 <tess24224> I think same with 2 other members seem to see something fishy
3071 2011-06-21 19:34:50 molecular has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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3073 2011-06-21 19:36:24 ahbritto has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3074 2011-06-21 19:36:49 <ersi> tess24224: That's false. "accounts" exists in the Bitcoin client as well.
3075 2011-06-21 19:36:57 RazielZ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3076 2011-06-21 19:36:58 <tess24224> Really?
3077 2011-06-21 19:37:05 <jrmithdobbs> you just can't usethem
3078 2011-06-21 19:37:11 <jrmithdobbs> the labels show up in the gui tho
3079 2011-06-21 19:37:22 <ersi> Yes, really. But if you've only used the GUI, you wouldn't know about it.
3080 2011-06-21 19:37:32 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
3081 2011-06-21 19:37:33 <tess24224> no i have used bitcoind
3082 2011-06-21 19:37:40 <tess24224> but never seen
3083 2011-06-21 19:37:47 <ersi> You will the next time
3084 2011-06-21 19:37:50 <sivu> puuh... bitcoin code needs a serious refactoring
3085 2011-06-21 19:38:06 <ersi> sivu: Good luck, without breaking anything :P
3086 2011-06-21 19:38:11 <tess24224> Has anyone tried the closed source .NET client.. i forget the name?
3087 2011-06-21 19:38:15 <MMavipc> json-rpc isnt working for me, it isnt accepting the user & pass I put in the conf file
3088 2011-06-21 19:38:39 <MMavipc> tess24224: .NET is never closed source ;P
3089 2011-06-21 19:38:41 <sivu> ersi, good unit test coverage would help with that :)
3090 2011-06-21 19:38:52 <ersi> MMavipc: Did you change the config while bitcoin was running?
3091 2011-06-21 19:39:05 <MMavipc> no
3092 2011-06-21 19:39:08 <tess24224> Ahaha, mirrors will be used..but by the accepted defination
3093 2011-06-21 19:39:18 <sivu> tons of classes just dumped into main.h
3094 2011-06-21 19:40:03 <sipa> sivu: being worked on
3095 2011-06-21 19:40:04 <tess24224> I never understand IRC
3096 2011-06-21 19:40:06 TheZimm is now known as away!~TheZimm@c-98-226-5-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net|TheZimm
3097 2011-06-21 19:40:12 <sipa> slowly
3098 2011-06-21 19:40:36 DaQatz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3099 2011-06-21 19:40:39 <tess24224> so many users, but hardly anyone actually talking..i always think of a conversation with 50 people and only 2 talking
3100 2011-06-21 19:40:43 DaQatz has joined
3101 2011-06-21 19:40:49 <sivu> sipa, good good
3102 2011-06-21 19:40:50 <tess24224> creepy
3103 2011-06-21 19:40:55 <MMavipc> I should write an irc bot that lets you bet bitcoins
3104 2011-06-21 19:41:00 <wumpus> oh man this is already such a busy channel, imagine if everyone was talking
3105 2011-06-21 19:41:10 <tess24224> is this busy?
3106 2011-06-21 19:41:18 <MMavipc> rcpuser=mmavipc
3107 2011-06-21 19:41:18 <MMavipc> rpcpassword=test
3108 2011-06-21 19:41:18 <sipa> this? a bust channel?
3109 2011-06-21 19:41:18 <wumpus> yes
3110 2011-06-21 19:41:23 <tess24224> i think it seems much to quiet
3111 2011-06-21 19:41:23 <MMavipc> anything wrong with that?
3112 2011-06-21 19:41:30 <sipa> join #ubuntu :p
3113 2011-06-21 19:41:44 <tess24224> yes i think it's creepy
3114 2011-06-21 19:41:49 <wumpus> #ubuntu is not a -dev channel
3115 2011-06-21 19:41:56 <MMavipc> join #reddit if you want bust ;P
3116 2011-06-21 19:41:57 <wumpus> compare #ubuntu to #bitcoin
3117 2011-06-21 19:41:58 <MMavipc> *busy
3118 2011-06-21 19:42:09 <tess24224> i wait 5 min and no reply in main bitcoin channel
3119 2011-06-21 19:42:20 <wumpus> tess24224: because people are coding instead of talking?
3120 2011-06-21 19:42:21 <sipa> neither is this really a dev channel
3121 2011-06-21 19:42:30 <tess24224> Could well be wumpus
3122 2011-06-21 19:42:32 <tess24224> i hope so
3123 2011-06-21 19:42:34 <ersi> *nods*
3124 2011-06-21 19:42:38 <MMavipc> anyone have an answer to my previous question?
3125 2011-06-21 19:42:43 zamgo has quit ()
3126 2011-06-21 19:42:45 <jrmithdobbs> tess24224: you mean the wallet stealer
3127 2011-06-21 19:42:46 abragin has quit ()
3128 2011-06-21 19:42:55 <wumpus> this is freenode not uhh gossipnet :)
3129 2011-06-21 19:43:03 ahbritto has joined
3130 2011-06-21 19:43:08 <MMavipc> join #gossip
3131 2011-06-21 19:43:13 <tess24224> jr yes, but this is not the 'infostealer'coinbit
3132 2011-06-21 19:44:04 abragin has joined
3133 2011-06-21 19:44:14 davro has joined
3134 2011-06-21 19:44:29 <tess24224> aha the source to that.. so much attention and you see how bad it is: http://www.opensc.ws/keyloggers-stealers/15132-bitcoin-wallet-dat-ftp-stealer-source.html
3135 2011-06-21 19:44:50 coderrr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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3140 2011-06-21 19:46:07 <tess24224> hold up isn't that joepie that lulzsec lizard
3141 2011-06-21 19:46:07 <MMavipc> so i need anything other than this in my config for rpc to work?
3142 2011-06-21 19:46:13 <MMavipc> server=1
3143 2011-06-21 19:46:13 <MMavipc> rcpuser=mmavipc
3144 2011-06-21 19:46:13 <MMavipc> rpcpassword=test
3145 2011-06-21 19:46:13 <MMavipc> rpctimeout=15
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3153 2011-06-21 19:47:04 <semarjt> home!~joel@cpe-72-177-35-119.austin.res.rr.com|hey could someone help me troubleshoot : No OpenCL platforms found from DiabloMiner?
3154 2011-06-21 19:47:17 <semarjt> home!~joel@cpe-72-177-35-119.austin.res.rr.com|(ubuntu , 11.04, ati 5830)
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3178 2011-06-21 19:54:06 vragnaroda has joined
3179 2011-06-21 19:54:07 <coderrr> is there any need to actually send back change to yourself in bitcoin transactions? or was that purely for anonymity purposes?
3180 2011-06-21 19:54:40 linagee has joined
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3182 2011-06-21 19:55:02 <tess24224> isn't it more like lack of anonymity
3183 2011-06-21 19:55:12 peck has joined
3184 2011-06-21 19:55:12 <Optimo> coderrr, isn't that because of 100 addresses run out eventually?
3185 2011-06-21 19:55:37 <coderrr> tess24224, heh, or that
3186 2011-06-21 19:55:45 <Titeuf_87> if you received for instance 10BTC, you can only send those full 10BTC and nothing less. If you don't get back the change, you'll lose it if you buy something for less than 10
3187 2011-06-21 19:55:49 <coderrr> Optimo, i dont see how that has anhting tto do w it
3188 2011-06-21 19:55:59 <coderrr> Titeuf_87, are you sure ?
3189 2011-06-21 19:56:14 dbasch has joined
3190 2011-06-21 19:56:17 <Optimo> it's quite possible I completely have no concept of what change is for then ;p
3191 2011-06-21 19:56:19 <coderrr> Titeuf_87, if you can send back a partial of that 10btc to urself, why cant you only send out partial to the recipient to begin with
3192 2011-06-21 19:57:48 <Titeuf_87> yes, transactions always uses the full output value of any previous transaction
3193 2011-06-21 19:58:01 bulj has joined
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3195 2011-06-21 19:58:22 <tcatm> I need help: > How many people do you think use bitcoin?
3196 2011-06-21 19:58:32 <coderrr> Titeuf_87, hrm ok, tha makes sense then, so thast just a rule in the client? " transactions always uses the full output value of any previous transaction"
3197 2011-06-21 19:58:51 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3198 2011-06-21 19:58:58 <Titeuf_87> if you don't spend the full output then the unspent part of it goes to the miner that confirms that transaction (this is the fee)
3199 2011-06-21 19:59:05 <sipa> of one transaction output
3200 2011-06-21 19:59:24 <sipa> which you could call a coin
3201 2011-06-21 19:59:31 <coderrr> gotcha
3202 2011-06-21 19:59:38 phunction has joined
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3207 2011-06-21 20:05:01 RenaKunisaki has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
3208 2011-06-21 20:05:03 <gmaxwell> tcatm: there are about 30k hosts on IRC, but the number of users should be greater.
3209 2011-06-21 20:05:12 alanp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3210 2011-06-21 20:05:33 linagee has quit (Changing host)
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3212 2011-06-21 20:05:38 <gmaxwell> 13:04 -!- Current global users: 28416 Max: 29642
3213 2011-06-21 20:05:42 <tcatm> gmaxwell: thanks :)
3214 2011-06-21 20:05:45 TheZimm is now known as TheZimm|away
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3220 2011-06-21 20:07:15 RenaKunisaki has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
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3223 2011-06-21 20:08:50 <luke-jr> ;;c,stats
3224 2011-06-21 20:08:52 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
3225 2011-06-21 20:08:52 <gribble> Error: "c,stats" is not a valid command.
3226 2011-06-21 20:08:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 132371 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 684 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 4 hours, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1296179.75964859
3227 2011-06-21 20:09:46 Fireball has joined
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3231 2011-06-21 20:11:42 <tess24224> mtgox ddos again,,
3232 2011-06-21 20:12:53 Blitzboom has joined
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3234 2011-06-21 20:12:53 Blitzboom has joined
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3236 2011-06-21 20:13:11 Fireball is now known as abragin
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3239 2011-06-21 20:14:14 <tess24224> no ignore that
3240 2011-06-21 20:14:18 <tess24224> stupid
3241 2011-06-21 20:14:58 <luke-jr> lol
3242 2011-06-21 20:15:31 hamush has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3243 2011-06-21 20:15:44 <tess24224> what happens when you move your mouth before your brain is in gear
3244 2011-06-21 20:15:59 cacheson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3245 2011-06-21 20:16:01 <Juggie> verbal diarea
3246 2011-06-21 20:16:07 <Juggie> but its down for sure
3247 2011-06-21 20:16:29 alanp_ has joined
3248 2011-06-21 20:16:41 <tess24224> support is up
3249 2011-06-21 20:16:45 hamush has joined
3250 2011-06-21 20:16:47 <tess24224> claims is dwn
3251 2011-06-21 20:16:52 <Juggie> just going to mtgox.com is broken
3252 2011-06-21 20:16:58 <tess24224> https://support.mtgox.com/home
3253 2011-06-21 20:17:22 <Juggie> in any case
3254 2011-06-21 20:17:28 <Juggie> who can trust this guy again
3255 2011-06-21 20:19:00 enquire has joined
3256 2011-06-21 20:19:07 never_sleep has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3257 2011-06-21 20:19:29 f33x has quit (Quit: f33x)
3258 2011-06-21 20:21:02 <Speeder> me
3259 2011-06-21 20:21:27 <tess24224> I want to know this 'HK based IP'
3260 2011-06-21 20:21:54 eternal1 has joined
3261 2011-06-21 20:21:55 Sylph has joined
3262 2011-06-21 20:22:14 <Juggie> for someone making 40k a day
3263 2011-06-21 20:22:16 k^^ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
3264 2011-06-21 20:22:25 <makomk> Juggie: lots of people trust him, apparently. Anyone who doesn't is allegedy just a bitcoin hater or something >.>
3265 2011-06-21 20:22:25 <Juggie> the infrastructure seems well...
3266 2011-06-21 20:22:37 <Juggie> disapointing
3267 2011-06-21 20:23:56 <makomk> In retrospect it's probably a good thing it is; if it wasn't the last attack against mtgox would've been a lot more effective.
3268 2011-06-21 20:24:33 <Juggie> lol i guess :)
3269 2011-06-21 20:24:44 <tess24224> Has someone got mtgox_client.exe to share please?
3270 2011-06-21 20:24:55 <Juggie> you want to disassemble it?
3271 2011-06-21 20:25:10 <gmaxwell> ...
3272 2011-06-21 20:25:16 <Optimo> ddos'd?
3273 2011-06-21 20:25:28 enquire has left ()
3274 2011-06-21 20:25:31 <tess24224> yes need to check something
3275 2011-06-21 20:25:41 <Juggie> i'm sure its on google.
3276 2011-06-21 20:25:45 <Juggie> i wasnt a client
3277 2011-06-21 20:25:56 <tess24224> I find different copy
3278 2011-06-21 20:26:04 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
3279 2011-06-21 20:26:13 <tess24224> different md5, but email not in mtgox db leak so i don't have copy sent
3280 2011-06-21 20:26:13 nocreativenick1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3281 2011-06-21 20:26:35 nocreativenick1 has joined
3282 2011-06-21 20:26:42 <Juggie> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19891.0
3283 2011-06-21 20:27:47 <tess24224> Thank you, this is the same version sent?
3284 2011-06-21 20:28:02 diki has joined
3285 2011-06-21 20:28:05 * diki is here
3286 2011-06-21 20:28:18 <bulj> finally
3287 2011-06-21 20:28:28 <gmaxwell> gah wtf people "my av said nothing so I tried it"
3288 2011-06-21 20:28:36 blueadept has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3289 2011-06-21 20:28:48 mmoya has joined
3290 2011-06-21 20:28:51 <tess24224> ikarus + NOD32 now detect
3291 2011-06-21 20:28:57 blueadept has joined
3292 2011-06-21 20:28:58 <phantomcircuit> Juggie, darkcomet is hilarious, the guy is fucking old school and sells all kinds of nasty shit, 100% of it is backdoored
3293 2011-06-21 20:28:58 <tess24224> kaspersky later
3294 2011-06-21 20:29:00 <Namegduf> How moronic
3295 2011-06-21 20:29:48 <Juggie> lol
3296 2011-06-21 20:29:53 <diki> since i just joined, mind letting me in on the new shit?
3297 2011-06-21 20:30:04 * Juggie poops
3298 2011-06-21 20:30:13 * copumpkin scoops it into a cup
3299 2011-06-21 20:30:16 * copumpkin hands it to diki
3300 2011-06-21 20:30:30 <tess24224> But this hacker infect the mt gox auditor before?!
3301 2011-06-21 20:31:54 Incitatus has joined
3302 2011-06-21 20:32:06 neversleep has joined
3303 2011-06-21 20:32:10 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3304 2011-06-21 20:32:15 Happy0 has joined
3305 2011-06-21 20:33:27 <Happy0> hi... does anybody know if, when you're sending the bitcoin daemon parameters using JSON-RPC, you have to name them? i can use the 'getinfo' method no bother (because it has no parameters), but when i'm trying to use the 'sendfrom' method, i get '500 internal server error'
3306 2011-06-21 20:33:34 <Happy0> (i'm using java)
3307 2011-06-21 20:34:06 <redshark1802> did you launch bitcoind recently without the blockdb?
3308 2011-06-21 20:34:15 <Happy0> uhm...
3309 2011-06-21 20:34:19 <Happy0> not as far as i'm aware
3310 2011-06-21 20:34:21 dbasch has joined
3311 2011-06-21 20:34:53 <redshark1802> sorry, i had this problem only with php. right after i backed my .bitcoin folder and created a new one
3312 2011-06-21 20:35:07 <Happy0> ahh, i see =p
3313 2011-06-21 20:35:43 <Happy0> thanks for trying =p
3314 2011-06-21 20:35:54 <redshark1802> =p
3315 2011-06-21 20:36:12 <Happy0> does this look like the right sort of format for the parameters, though?
3316 2011-06-21 20:36:14 <Happy0> {"id":"andtest","jsonrpc":"1.0","method":"sendfrom","params":["Happy0","1Cdi5Y4AkxFYPM3kcjtDSggP3uCVQTbH5c",1]}
3317 2011-06-21 20:36:35 <sipa> can id be a string?
3318 2011-06-21 20:36:45 <Happy0> ha well, that's been working fine for
3319 2011-06-21 20:36:46 <Happy0> getinfo
3320 2011-06-21 20:36:58 <redshark1802> sorry i dont know, im using the jsonRPCCLIENT
3321 2011-06-21 20:37:00 <Happy0> it seems odd that it's throwing '500 internal server error'
3322 2011-06-21 20:37:08 <Happy0> of all errors
3323 2011-06-21 20:37:21 <redshark1802> and if you try bitcoind getblockcount or something else
3324 2011-06-21 20:37:32 <redshark1802> from command line
3325 2011-06-21 20:37:41 <Happy0> it returns... 132374
3326 2011-06-21 20:37:50 <redshark1802> good
3327 2011-06-21 20:37:50 nranra has joined
3328 2011-06-21 20:38:00 <nranra> hola
3329 2011-06-21 20:38:06 <sytse> Happy0: it would be weird to include the api version in the results though
3330 2011-06-21 20:38:11 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3331 2011-06-21 20:38:15 <sytse> Happy0: I'd make a separate call for that
3332 2011-06-21 20:38:29 dvide has joined
3333 2011-06-21 20:38:37 <nranra> does blkmond work correctly on testnet/testnet-in-a-box?
3334 2011-06-21 20:38:47 <Happy0> sytse: what do you mean? my whole "jsonrpc":"1.0" thing?
3335 2011-06-21 20:38:56 <Happy0> that's very well, but are my params fine?
3336 2011-06-21 20:39:00 <Happy0> =p
3337 2011-06-21 20:39:20 <sytse> Happy0: also, "params" is positional, right? If so, I'd make it an object, not an array, so you can assign a name to each value
3338 2011-06-21 20:39:28 <gavinandresen> Happy0: look fine to me, yes params is positional.
3339 2011-06-21 20:40:19 <Happy0> sytse, gavinandresen: so if i change params into a JSONObject, and name each parameter, i should stop getting 500 internal server error?
3340 2011-06-21 20:40:22 <sytse> Happy0: arrays are meant for, well... arrays, the same kind of data multiple times.
3341 2011-06-21 20:40:39 <sytse> Happy0: oh, nvm, you didn't write that service yourself
3342 2011-06-21 20:40:49 <sytse> in that case I have nothing to say
3343 2011-06-21 20:40:52 <tess24224> blkmond doesnt work on testnet
3344 2011-06-21 20:41:00 <Happy0> sytse... you're confusing me :(
3345 2011-06-21 20:41:02 <gavinandresen> Happy0: no, naming the params would definitely not work
3346 2011-06-21 20:41:02 <Happy0> what do you mean by
3347 2011-06-21 20:41:13 <Happy0> 'you didn't write that server yourself'?
3348 2011-06-21 20:41:29 eoss has joined
3349 2011-06-21 20:41:32 <Happy0> gavinandresen: so i should try naming
3350 2011-06-21 20:41:35 <nranra> tess24224: oh :( is it necessary to have it running to test a pushpool server?
3351 2011-06-21 20:41:36 <Happy0> the parameters in the array?
3352 2011-06-21 20:41:58 <sipa> no
3353 2011-06-21 20:41:59 <Happy0> oh wait, sorry gavinandresen, you said 'looks fine to me'...
3354 2011-06-21 20:41:59 <sytse> I meant that you don't have control over the json API, you're just asking how to use an existing API such that it doesn't give an error
3355 2011-06-21 20:42:06 <Happy0> haha yeah =p
3356 2011-06-21 20:42:09 <sytse> I didn't read everything you said
3357 2011-06-21 20:42:18 <Happy0> thanks anyway :)
3358 2011-06-21 20:42:26 <Happy0> i wish the bitcoind was better documented =p
3359 2011-06-21 20:42:31 <sytse> I'll have a look at the code for you
3360 2011-06-21 20:42:36 TheZimm is now known as away!~TheZimm@c-98-226-5-69.hsd1.il.comcast.net|TheZimm
3361 2011-06-21 20:42:36 TheZimm has quit (Excess Flood)
3362 2011-06-21 20:42:41 TheZimm has joined
3363 2011-06-21 20:42:48 egecko has joined
3364 2011-06-21 20:42:56 <Happy0> sytse: you want me to paste my code? :S
3365 2011-06-21 20:43:13 <egecko> hellos, what is the comment-to field in the sendtoaddress api call supposed to contain?
3366 2011-06-21 20:43:20 <sytse> nah
3367 2011-06-21 20:43:27 <sipa> a comment
3368 2011-06-21 20:43:30 <sytse> I'll have a look at the code of bitcoin to see which format it needs to be in
3369 2011-06-21 20:43:33 <sipa> for yourself
3370 2011-06-21 20:43:37 <Happy0> sytse: haha, wow
3371 2011-06-21 20:43:41 <Happy0> thanks a lot :)
3372 2011-06-21 20:43:44 <gavinandresen> Try: {"jsonrpc": "1.0", "id":"curltest", "method": "listtransactions", "params": ["*"] }
3373 2011-06-21 20:43:46 <Happy0> brb getting a glass of water
3374 2011-06-21 20:44:07 pusle has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3375 2011-06-21 20:44:09 <egecko> ti figured that would go in the comment field :) this is the parameter after that that i am trying to figure out
3376 2011-06-21 20:44:24 <sipa> oh
3377 2011-06-21 20:44:32 TheSeven has joined
3378 2011-06-21 20:44:36 _flow_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3379 2011-06-21 20:44:43 <sipa> maybe some legacy from ip transactions then
3380 2011-06-21 20:45:59 Teslah has joined
3381 2011-06-21 20:46:06 vorlov has joined
3382 2011-06-21 20:46:09 ericmock has joined
3383 2011-06-21 20:47:10 <nranra> what's the best way to test a pushpool server? is there a way to simulate blocks being found? because solving a block on the testnet is going to take a while..
3384 2011-06-21 20:47:10 <Happy0> gavinandresen: i thought 'listransactions' took no parameters... for no parameters i've been using 'null'
3385 2011-06-21 20:47:37 unclemantis has joined
3386 2011-06-21 20:47:53 <gavinandresen> Happy0: listtransactions takes optional params. And for no params, it should be params[] (empty array)
3387 2011-06-21 20:48:02 <gavinandresen> err "params" : []
3388 2011-06-21 20:48:08 <sytse> Happy0: null works as well, the code handles that
3389 2011-06-21 20:48:13 <sytse> gavinandresen: ^^
3390 2011-06-21 20:48:21 <Happy0> haha yeah, cheers guys... =]
3391 2011-06-21 20:48:27 <sytse> else if (valParams.type() == null_type)
3392 2011-06-21 20:48:27 <sytse> params = Array();
3393 2011-06-21 20:48:36 <Happy0> like i said, i've got getinfo working
3394 2011-06-21 20:48:37 <Happy0> and
3395 2011-06-21 20:48:39 <Happy0> getaccounts working
3396 2011-06-21 20:48:45 <Happy0> or listaccounts, rather
3397 2011-06-21 20:48:56 <Happy0> because i don't need to give them parameters
3398 2011-06-21 20:49:00 <sytse> Happy0: btw, I can't find this "jsonrpc" value name in the source code, where did you find that?
3399 2011-06-21 20:49:15 <gavinandresen> Maybe your json-rpc library is being brain-dead and converting the 1 into a string for you. Or something. Make sure it is a number.
3400 2011-06-21 20:49:20 <Happy0> uhm... sytse: i was going by an example on the API page =p
3401 2011-06-21 20:49:22 <egecko> say, any of you guys have a windows 7 phone?
3402 2011-06-21 20:49:27 <gavinandresen> (are you calling from php?)
3403 2011-06-21 20:49:39 <sipa> gavinandresen: from java
3404 2011-06-21 20:50:10 <Happy0> gavinadresen: i'd like to think that the server would give me back a 401
3405 2011-06-21 20:50:25 <Happy0> however
3406 2011-06-21 20:50:27 <Happy0> you're right
3407 2011-06-21 20:50:30 <Happy0> that's worth looking into
3408 2011-06-21 20:50:54 <Happy0> and i'm not using a json-rpc library =p
3409 2011-06-21 20:51:04 <Happy0> i'm just making the JSON objects manually
3410 2011-06-21 20:51:22 <Happy0> then doing
3411 2011-06-21 20:51:24 <Happy0> toString on them later
3412 2011-06-21 20:51:45 <Happy0> when i'm posting to the server
3413 2011-06-21 20:51:49 <sipa> what is the exact string you're sending?
3414 2011-06-21 20:52:05 <Happy0> 2 secs
3415 2011-06-21 20:52:20 <Happy0> {"id":"andtest","jsonrpc":"1.0","method":"sendfrom","params":["Happy0","1Cdi5Y4AkxFYPM3kcjtDSggP3uCVQTbH5c",1]}
3416 2011-06-21 20:52:44 <sipa> looks good
3417 2011-06-21 20:52:54 <Happy0> argh... that's worrying =p
3418 2011-06-21 20:52:57 <Happy0> Y U NO WORK THEN
3419 2011-06-21 20:52:57 <tess24224> looks REAL good
3420 2011-06-21 20:53:00 <tess24224> mmm baby
3421 2011-06-21 20:53:13 <Happy0> thanks for your help guys =]
3422 2011-06-21 20:53:14 <gavinandresen> What specific error code you getting back? (see http://forum.bitcoin.org/?topic=969.0 )
3423 2011-06-21 20:53:30 <Happy0> my debugger says:
3424 2011-06-21 20:53:32 <Happy0> 06-21 20:30:11.459: DEBUG/baws(923): Foo didn't work: Internal Server Error
3425 2011-06-21 20:53:47 <Happy0> so
3426 2011-06-21 20:53:50 <Happy0> 500 i'm assuming
3427 2011-06-21 20:53:53 <Happy0> :: looks at forum thread ::
3428 2011-06-21 20:54:07 <sytse> Happy0: it's a bug anyway; it should give back a json object with "code" and "error" for any error
3429 2011-06-21 20:54:16 <Happy0> sytse: the funny thing is
3430 2011-06-21 20:54:22 <Happy0> i want an error back at the minute
3431 2011-06-21 20:54:23 <gavinandresen> sytse: see the forum thread....
3432 2011-06-21 20:54:24 <sytse> so I suppose it must be an exception thrown somewhere in the catacombs of bitcoind
3433 2011-06-21 20:54:25 Joric_ has joined
3434 2011-06-21 20:54:26 <Happy0> or any sort of object
3435 2011-06-21 20:54:32 tess24224 has quit ()
3436 2011-06-21 20:54:37 <Happy0> an error object
3437 2011-06-21 20:54:48 <Happy0> sytse: so are you saying if i gave it valid info, it'd probably do the right thing?
3438 2011-06-21 20:54:59 <gavinandresen> ... and note that according to the JSON RPC 1.1/2.0 specs, returning http status 500 is the right thing to do for some errors.
3439 2011-06-21 20:55:07 ionspin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3440 2011-06-21 20:55:17 <sytse> Happy0: you need to check (if all else fails, with wireshark) what the *contents* of the 500 reply are
3441 2011-06-21 20:55:25 <Happy0> lmao
3442 2011-06-21 20:55:27 <Happy0> oh god
3443 2011-06-21 20:55:29 <Taveren93HGK> is there anybody around with experience over/underclocking 6990's in linux?
3444 2011-06-21 20:55:36 <sytse> gavinandresen: yep, I was wrong.. I thought for a second Happy0 meant an *empty* 500 reply
3445 2011-06-21 20:55:46 anu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3446 2011-06-21 20:55:49 <sytse> Happy0: could be just 'not enough funds'
3447 2011-06-21 20:55:55 <Happy0> see, i actually found that thread when i googled
3448 2011-06-21 20:55:56 <yebyen> 6990??
3449 2011-06-21 20:55:57 <Happy0> and i thought
3450 2011-06-21 20:56:10 <Happy0> 'hmm, then why am i not getting the response back anyway...'
3451 2011-06-21 20:56:19 <Happy0> 'cause i'm actually looking to get the error at the moment
3452 2011-06-21 20:56:36 <sytse> Happy0: you don't need the "jsonrpc":"1.0" part btw, that's just bullshit afaics
3453 2011-06-21 20:56:44 <Happy0> haha, cheers =]
3454 2011-06-21 20:56:48 <Happy0> i'll remove that
3455 2011-06-21 20:57:14 <yebyen> happy tai?
3456 2011-06-21 20:57:15 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3457 2011-06-21 20:57:27 <Happy0> yebyen: pardon? :P
3458 2011-06-21 20:57:46 _flow_ has joined
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3460 2011-06-21 20:58:01 <Happy0> sytse: i think i'm going to go with your contents line of investigation =p
3461 2011-06-21 20:58:08 <Happy0> and deliberately throw a 401
3462 2011-06-21 20:58:13 <Happy0> and see if i get the error object back
3463 2011-06-21 20:58:17 <Happy0> or just
3464 2011-06-21 20:58:19 <Happy0> '401'
3465 2011-06-21 20:58:26 <sytse> looks like an excellent JSON library though, from what I can glean from the code (rpc.cc is less excellent however, sadly..)
3466 2011-06-21 20:58:38 <Happy0> i really appreciate everybody's help
3467 2011-06-21 20:58:45 <sytse> rpc.cc looks like it's been written by a C coder ;)
3468 2011-06-21 20:58:52 <Happy0> i forgot how much i love IRC for this sort of thing
3469 2011-06-21 20:58:56 <sytse> um, .cpp
3470 2011-06-21 20:59:08 <Happy0> haha, sytse: reassuring to know that the server should be behaving =p
3471 2011-06-21 20:59:24 <Happy0> this is the first time i've had to send JSON, i'm used to just parsing it
3472 2011-06-21 20:59:55 <sytse> having a good RPC abstraction layer is a great timesaver though
3473 2011-06-21 21:00:17 <Happy0> yeah, what i'm doing feels really hacky
3474 2011-06-21 21:00:22 <Happy0> but
3475 2011-06-21 21:00:38 <Happy0> yeah, i should look into that =p
3476 2011-06-21 21:00:50 <sytse> well, json.org has a nice list of implementations
3477 2011-06-21 21:01:08 <sytse> (a HUGE one, too, for java)
3478 2011-06-21 21:01:17 <sytse> dunno which is the best
3479 2011-06-21 21:01:35 jimrandomh has joined
3480 2011-06-21 21:01:47 <Happy0> i think you guys are right...
3481 2011-06-21 21:01:55 <Happy0> "06-21 21:00:09.949: DEBUG/baws(923): Foo didn't work: Authorization Required"
3482 2011-06-21 21:02:00 <Happy0> i deliberately gave it the wrong password
3483 2011-06-21 21:02:04 <sytse> =]
3484 2011-06-21 21:02:07 <Happy0> thanks, i'll have to work out
3485 2011-06-21 21:02:12 <Happy0> how to inspect the rest of the contents :|
3486 2011-06-21 21:02:21 <Happy0> but, atleast i'm making progress now :)
3487 2011-06-21 21:02:23 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
3488 2011-06-21 21:02:41 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
3489 2011-06-21 21:02:48 kW_ has joined
3490 2011-06-21 21:03:34 <Happy0> ... oh god, this might actually be a lot simpiler than i thought
3491 2011-06-21 21:03:36 <Happy0> looking at my code
3492 2011-06-21 21:03:50 <Happy0> however, you guys have put me in the right direction, and taught me a bit about RPC
3493 2011-06-21 21:03:53 <Happy0> so thanks a lot
3494 2011-06-21 21:03:58 <Happy0> i just feel guilty if i've wasted your time xD
3495 2011-06-21 21:04:28 <sytse> np
3496 2011-06-21 21:04:33 Atterall has joined
3497 2011-06-21 21:04:34 <D0han> if i want to mine, i need entire chain or just last block?
3498 2011-06-21 21:05:21 <sytse> I was drinking a beer and wondering what to do between coming home from working 13 hours straight and going to bed anyway
3499 2011-06-21 21:05:48 <sytse> (waiting until mtgox comes back online could take awhile, so that was no option ;) )
3500 2011-06-21 21:06:28 * diki wants the world to revolve around him
3501 2011-06-21 21:06:39 jmpespxoreax has joined
3502 2011-06-21 21:06:47 <sytse> working with an old and quite broken PL/SQL -> JAX-RPC SOAP API generator, sadly :(
3503 2011-06-21 21:06:56 jimrandomh has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3504 2011-06-21 21:06:58 <sytse> diki: then you should eat more
3505 2011-06-21 21:07:03 <sytse> diki: become heavy enough and it will
3506 2011-06-21 21:07:11 <sytse> simple physics :P
3507 2011-06-21 21:07:29 ionspin has joined
3508 2011-06-21 21:07:44 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
3509 2011-06-21 21:08:04 <ericmock> sytse: heavy /and/ wide would be better
3510 2011-06-21 21:08:40 <sytse> ideally he should approach a spherical form, yes :P
3511 2011-06-21 21:08:54 <sytse> heavy and tiny would be even better though
3512 2011-06-21 21:09:22 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3513 2011-06-21 21:10:05 <sytse> like say, 10^26 kg and the size of a football
3514 2011-06-21 21:10:21 ndeee has quit (Quit: c-u)
3515 2011-06-21 21:10:45 denisx has joined
3516 2011-06-21 21:10:53 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
3517 2011-06-21 21:10:55 Strom- is now known as Strom
3518 2011-06-21 21:11:17 <sytse> he'd have to eat almost 1/19th of jupiter though
3519 2011-06-21 21:13:17 <sytse> and have a pretty strong stomach =]
3520 2011-06-21 21:13:31 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3521 2011-06-21 21:13:43 B0g4r7_ has joined
3522 2011-06-21 21:14:41 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3523 2011-06-21 21:14:55 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
3524 2011-06-21 21:15:24 <sytse> (if anyone's thinking 'huh, this guy is pretty weird' right now, try making a SOAP webservice in a J2EE container with special weblogic descriptors using PL/SQL and jdeveloper.. now THAT is sick ;-) )
3525 2011-06-21 21:15:24 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3526 2011-06-21 21:15:25 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
3527 2011-06-21 21:16:42 <upb> i was ;)
3528 2011-06-21 21:16:49 <upb> but i have seen weirder shit
3529 2011-06-21 21:17:04 <upb> like a webbased system written entirely in pl/sql
3530 2011-06-21 21:17:05 vragnaroda has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3531 2011-06-21 21:17:16 ezl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3532 2011-06-21 21:17:20 <upb> html being constructed etc
3533 2011-06-21 21:17:21 <upb> SICK
3534 2011-06-21 21:17:31 vragnaroda has joined
3535 2011-06-21 21:18:37 <upb> so youre business logic is entirely in pl/sql ?
3536 2011-06-21 21:18:39 <iera> the core of liquid feedback is pl/sql, but ot :p
3537 2011-06-21 21:18:42 Netsniper has joined
3538 2011-06-21 21:20:00 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
3539 2011-06-21 21:20:19 <sytse> upb: damn.
3540 2011-06-21 21:20:21 <sytse> upb: yep.
3541 2011-06-21 21:20:27 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3542 2011-06-21 21:20:33 <phantomcircuit> upb, rofl is that a fucking joke
3543 2011-06-21 21:20:35 Speeder has joined
3544 2011-06-21 21:21:27 <jrmithdobbs> upb: i wrote a bash CGI parser
3545 2011-06-21 21:21:36 <jrmithdobbs> fuckin awesome.
3546 2011-06-21 21:21:52 <jrmithdobbs> still in use in production at the place I did it last I heard too!
3547 2011-06-21 21:22:26 <jrmithdobbs> taught that boss not to tell me something was impossible
3548 2011-06-21 21:22:27 <jrmithdobbs> ;P
3549 2011-06-21 21:22:42 <ericmock> and then you moved on?
3550 2011-06-21 21:22:51 <sytse> upb: well, mostly database PL/SQL. But a significant part of the business logic happens in forms, in another PL/SQL interpreter, with slightly different (more outdated) syntax rules.. which even means that in THAT PL/SQL, you can't use some modernizations in the SQL language itself of 10g, because the first round of SQL parsing of inline SQL happens inside the PL/SQL interpreter itself which is of an older vintage in the forms ...
3551 2011-06-21 21:22:54 <phantomcircuit> lol
3552 2011-06-21 21:22:57 <sytse> ... server we still use
3553 2011-06-21 21:23:13 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: nope. stayed for 3 years after
3554 2011-06-21 21:23:26 <ericmock> fixing the bugs?
3555 2011-06-21 21:23:33 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3556 2011-06-21 21:23:51 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: it wasn't like, customer facing production, just the web forms to add/remove stuff from monitoring
3557 2011-06-21 21:23:54 <jrmithdobbs> lol
3558 2011-06-21 21:24:14 <ericmock> oh, then, teaching everyone internal how to use it?
3559 2011-06-21 21:24:26 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: i never fixed one bug. never had the time to track it down, but had a version without the bug
3560 2011-06-21 21:24:38 <sytse> upb: we're going to move to ADF though ('yay'...)
3561 2011-06-21 21:24:46 <upb> :D
3562 2011-06-21 21:24:47 <jrmithdobbs> the bug was introduced when i removed the last two /usr/bin/cut calls and had the whole thing implemented in pure bash
3563 2011-06-21 21:24:51 coyo has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
3564 2011-06-21 21:24:57 scott` has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3565 2011-06-21 21:25:06 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: oh it was fully documented. but if you need to teach someone how to fill out a web form i don't really know what to say
3566 2011-06-21 21:25:33 nranra has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3567 2011-06-21 21:25:34 <sytse> upb: if you're ever tempted, don't even try it. Just go for ext js...
3568 2011-06-21 21:25:36 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: it was actually a MVC architecture
3569 2011-06-21 21:25:40 <jrmithdobbs> lol
3570 2011-06-21 21:26:16 <ericmock> well, teach the people (server-side) how to use it...
3571 2011-06-21 21:26:26 <upb> ahahahahahaha w t h
3572 2011-06-21 21:26:31 <sytse> upb: it's more brain damage from oracle, just in a nicer wrapper (which they bought or appropriated elsewhere)
3573 2011-06-21 21:26:38 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: it had a cli view too
3574 2011-06-21 21:26:41 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: and a man page
3575 2011-06-21 21:27:02 <jrmithdobbs> (totally serious)
3576 2011-06-21 21:27:12 JRWR has joined
3577 2011-06-21 21:27:14 <ericmock> nice
3578 2011-06-21 21:27:37 <ericmock> you use some funky vt100 stuff?
3579 2011-06-21 21:27:52 <jrmithdobbs> no it was fairly stateless
3580 2011-06-21 21:28:05 <jrmithdobbs> no curses, fuck curses apps
3581 2011-06-21 21:28:07 <ericmock> ascii spinners, etc?
3582 2011-06-21 21:28:23 <egecko> okay, so i got by bitcoin WP7 client now able to send bitcoins, i was wondering if someone could help clarify something im seeing.. i sent 0.00000001 BTC from one address in my wallet to another address in my wallet. in bitcoin.exe, it is showing a "Payment to yourself" as i would expect, but it is showing a debit of -0.00050001 and a credit of 0.00000001
3583 2011-06-21 21:28:41 <egecko> is the difference the transaction fee being charged?
3584 2011-06-21 21:28:46 <tcatm> egecko: yes, that's the fee
3585 2011-06-21 21:28:53 <jrmithdobbs> it was all one shot like (I forget the command names) monitoradd -h hostname -i serverid -s list,of,services -d datacenter
3586 2011-06-21 21:29:06 <egecko> dizam! thats kind expensive
3587 2011-06-21 21:29:16 <jrmithdobbs> actually i think hostname was the required non-getopt option
3588 2011-06-21 21:29:18 <jrmithdobbs> but w/e
3589 2011-06-21 21:29:44 <tcatm> egecko: the price is about right. remember that every node has to store your transaction for ever
3590 2011-06-21 21:30:18 dotnp has joined
3591 2011-06-21 21:30:18 <egecko> true dat, just expensive when you compare it to the transmitted amount
3592 2011-06-21 21:30:42 <jrmithdobbs> egecko: only happens on >0.01 txns or txns over 1KB or with really really young coins
3593 2011-06-21 21:30:58 <tcatm> a 0.000001 BTC tx is about the same size (in terms of bytes) as a 1000 BTC tx ;)
3594 2011-06-21 21:30:59 <jrmithdobbs> err <0.01
3595 2011-06-21 21:31:10 AStove has quit ()
3596 2011-06-21 21:31:36 <jrmithdobbs> tcatm: ya i'm not so sure i agree with the <0.01 part but until the p2p netcode is better it's probably best it stays in place
3597 2011-06-21 21:31:40 dotnp has quit (Client Quit)
3598 2011-06-21 21:32:08 <upb> sytse: they replaced that ugly system with a new one. i just found the design docs for it
3599 2011-06-21 21:32:11 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: er, otherwise I can rain bitdust on everbody... hurrah.
3600 2011-06-21 21:32:13 lessPlastic has quit (Quit: lessPlastic)
3601 2011-06-21 21:32:27 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: i understand the arguments for it
3602 2011-06-21 21:32:35 VastLite has joined
3603 2011-06-21 21:32:37 <upb> sytse: so now its free of ommercial 'EVIL' and totally opensource http://88.80.13.24/genious.architecture.png
3604 2011-06-21 21:32:49 <egecko> excellent. now that the hard work is done, now to get the addresses and history lists working, then i can unleash this on the world
3605 2011-06-21 21:33:15 <sytse> upb: you meant PL/PgSQL?
3606 2011-06-21 21:33:33 <upb> no
3607 2011-06-21 21:33:35 <gmaxwell> upb: but what will contain the PgSQL if it has a core melt?
3608 2011-06-21 21:33:38 <upb> it was in oracle previously
3609 2011-06-21 21:33:38 vorlov has joined
3610 2011-06-21 21:34:04 <sytse> upb: or, did you mean ADF?
3611 2011-06-21 21:34:14 <upb> the last line in the diagram says 'PL/pgSQL functions generate HTML'
3612 2011-06-21 21:34:22 wardearia has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3613 2011-06-21 21:34:28 <vegard> what is the estimated number of clients on the network currently, is there a way to tell?
3614 2011-06-21 21:34:33 <upb> sytse: it was custom pl/sql and they converted to pl/pgsql on postgres ;)
3615 2011-06-21 21:34:35 <sytse> PL/PgSQL != PL/SQL, it has nothing to do with it
3616 2011-06-21 21:34:37 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: bet you thought I was joking. http://home.jrbobdobbs.org/mith/cgi-request-decode.sh.html
3617 2011-06-21 21:34:39 <upb> i'd say its a great improvement
3618 2011-06-21 21:34:40 <sytse> upb: ah
3619 2011-06-21 21:34:45 <sytse> heh
3620 2011-06-21 21:34:48 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: (I have permission to distribute that and retain the copyright)
3621 2011-06-21 21:35:03 <Ken`> upb: you used to hang in #C4N?
3622 2011-06-21 21:35:05 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
3623 2011-06-21 21:35:10 VastLite_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3624 2011-06-21 21:35:11 oozyburglar has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3625 2011-06-21 21:35:18 <upb> Ken`: yep
3626 2011-06-21 21:35:20 <ericmock> jrmithdobbs: that looks like some old school cgi...
3627 2011-06-21 21:35:41 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: that's just the CGI parser
3628 2011-06-21 21:35:54 <ericmock> reminds me of the 'resume server' some folks put together when I was in grad school
3629 2011-06-21 21:36:00 <egecko> what great timing! i just happen to look into jailbreaking WP7 to get around the microsoft marketplace, and low and behold MS announced 3 days ago it was giving its approval to a jailbreaking tool
3630 2011-06-21 21:36:05 Sylph has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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3632 2011-06-21 21:36:33 <copumpkin> lo and behold
3633 2011-06-21 21:36:36 Herodes has joined
3634 2011-06-21 21:36:37 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: i didn't claim it was pretty. but it's functional! ;P
3635 2011-06-21 21:36:38 <ericmock> jrmithdobbs: what's the year on the copyright?
3636 2011-06-21 21:36:42 dbasch has joined
3637 2011-06-21 21:36:47 <copumpkin> jrmithdobbs: functional eh!
3638 2011-06-21 21:37:12 wardearia has joined
3639 2011-06-21 21:37:18 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: pre bash-3 so ~2004-55ish?
3640 2011-06-21 21:37:21 genjix has joined
3641 2011-06-21 21:37:23 <jrmithdobbs> err 2004-5ish
3642 2011-06-21 21:37:39 Sylph has joined
3643 2011-06-21 21:37:47 <ericmock> oh, sheesh, you should have known better by then... I was talking circa 1995
3644 2011-06-21 21:37:57 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: i'd have to dig out the cvs repo backup instead of just the syntax highlighted html dump ;P
3645 2011-06-21 21:38:09 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: known better about what?
3646 2011-06-21 21:38:18 <upb> Ken`: what nick did you use there ?:P
3647 2011-06-21 21:38:47 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: it only came into existance because i had written all the scripts for the stuff in bash with simple templates to gen the config files and my boss was like "but, i want a web interface"
3648 2011-06-21 21:38:51 <Ken`> upb: various nicknames. honestly i don't even remember which ones ;)
3649 2011-06-21 21:38:55 <upb> heh
3650 2011-06-21 21:38:58 <Ken`> upb: i quit that stuff a few years ago
3651 2011-06-21 21:39:01 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: and he told me that it would be impossible to do that in bash
3652 2011-06-21 21:39:20 <ericmock> jrmithdobbs: known better than to take up that challenge ;-)
3653 2011-06-21 21:39:27 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: pffft
3654 2011-06-21 21:39:31 <jrmithdobbs> ericmock: more fun than real work
3655 2011-06-21 21:39:54 <ericmock> yep, gotta push yourself, always
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3670 2011-06-21 21:49:28 <luke-jr> "The vulnerability we discovered enables any graphics image that has been displayed on the system to be stolen by an attacker by reading unitialised data from graphics memory," the Context report stated. "This is not limited to WebGL content but includes other web pages, a user's desktop and other applications."
3671 2011-06-21 21:50:39 <jrmithdobbs> webgl is a fucking awful thing
3672 2011-06-21 21:50:45 <jrmithdobbs> from a security perspective
3673 2011-06-21 21:50:46 <Pilate> old, hackish, time consuming, and requires webgl
3674 2011-06-21 21:51:03 <jrmithdobbs> i *really* need my browser kernel panicking the box
3675 2011-06-21 21:51:05 <jrmithdobbs> don't you?
3676 2011-06-21 21:51:30 genjix has left ()
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3678 2011-06-21 21:52:01 <diki> sup yall
3679 2011-06-21 21:52:04 Chopes has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3680 2011-06-21 21:52:22 <vegard> diki: how are you doing?
3681 2011-06-21 21:52:45 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
3682 2011-06-21 21:52:47 <diki> i am dying from the heat
3683 2011-06-21 21:53:01 <jrmithdobbs> this summer sucks for sure
3684 2011-06-21 21:53:06 <diki> but other than that, still mining solo
3685 2011-06-21 21:53:13 <diki> after my second block i am more motivated
3686 2011-06-21 21:53:56 blzp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3687 2011-06-21 21:54:01 WildSoil has joined
3688 2011-06-21 21:54:15 <Herodes> diki: how much hashing power you've got?
3689 2011-06-21 21:54:21 blzp has joined
3690 2011-06-21 21:54:23 <diki> 660 mhash
3691 2011-06-21 21:54:31 <Herodes> and two blocks. congratulations!
3692 2011-06-21 21:54:36 <Herodes> how long you've been mining?
3693 2011-06-21 21:54:45 <diki> solo? a few weeks
3694 2011-06-21 21:54:48 <bwr> Do you make more money with pooled mining? I would guess so because otherwise you can't really take advantage of the the current difficulty?
3695 2011-06-21 21:54:49 <Herodes> not bad.
3696 2011-06-21 21:54:54 <makomk> jrmithdobbs: if you think that's limited to webgl, you're underestimating just how buggy graphics drivers can be.
3697 2011-06-21 21:55:06 LobsterMan has joined
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3700 2011-06-21 21:55:40 <WildSoil> mtgox now working ?
3701 2011-06-21 21:55:45 blzpg has joined
3702 2011-06-21 21:55:56 <jrmithdobbs> makomk: it's exponentially worse with webgl
3703 2011-06-21 21:56:00 <Herodes> WildSoil: probably too much load?
3704 2011-06-21 21:56:04 Chopes has joined
3705 2011-06-21 21:56:54 <bwr> It would be nice if the webgl / opengl es shading language had bitwise operators and unsigned ints
3706 2011-06-21 21:57:58 <makomk> Heh.
3707 2011-06-21 21:58:05 topace has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3708 2011-06-21 21:58:45 <makomk> On a related note, if you want insecure, have you taken a look at this experimental Nokia WebCL plugin a few Bitcoin users are mining with?
3709 2011-06-21 21:58:58 blzp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3710 2011-06-21 21:59:06 <bwr> I've seen it but I didn't actually try it out
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3714 2011-06-21 22:00:20 <makomk> http://projects.developer.nokia.com/webcl/ticket/1 - that's not worrying at all ;-)
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3716 2011-06-21 22:00:38 <bwr> haha
3717 2011-06-21 22:00:51 grug has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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3720 2011-06-21 22:02:31 <Happy0> sytse: this is a shot in the dark, but do/j #android
3721 2011-06-21 22:02:34 <Happy0> woops
3722 2011-06-21 22:02:37 <Happy0> argh
3723 2011-06-21 22:02:38 <Happy0> ignore that
3724 2011-06-21 22:02:58 <Happy0> i changed my mind and decided to take my question elsewhere, thought i'd deleted the setence =p
3725 2011-06-21 22:03:08 scott` has joined
3726 2011-06-21 22:03:44 <sytse> :P
3727 2011-06-21 22:04:10 sender555 has left ()
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3731 2011-06-21 22:06:10 <prof7bit> headers.h:74:49: Fehler: boost/interprocess/sync/file_lock.hpp: No such file or directory
3732 2011-06-21 22:06:39 <prof7bit> i have installed all from boost i could find...
3733 2011-06-21 22:07:06 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3734 2011-06-21 22:07:29 <prof7bit> there is a lot of stuff in /usr/include/boost/ but interprocess is missing
3735 2011-06-21 22:07:37 grug has joined
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3738 2011-06-21 22:10:26 <jrmithdobbs> MagicalTux: still no comment?
3739 2011-06-21 22:11:24 TheSeven has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3740 2011-06-21 22:11:45 <copumpkin> I think he's asleep
3741 2011-06-21 22:12:01 Eisenaxt has joined
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3743 2011-06-21 22:12:40 <upb> he was up earlier tho P
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3749 2011-06-21 22:15:46 kiba` is now known as kiba
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3762 2011-06-21 22:22:36 <sytse> prof7bit: you're probably using an old version of boost? BTW, is the interprocess directory there at least? (it was included from boost 1.35.0)
3763 2011-06-21 22:22:48 TheSeven has joined
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3765 2011-06-21 22:23:12 <prof7bit> no, this directory was missing
3766 2011-06-21 22:23:14 <sytse> prof7bit: file_lock.hpp has been required for bitcoin since Wed Oct 20 16:12:23 2010 +0000...
3767 2011-06-21 22:23:57 <sytse> so either you're using a boost version older than 1.35.0 (which you can't compile bitcoin with) or you missed the Boost.Interprocess library
3768 2011-06-21 22:24:10 <prof7bit> I have ubuntu hardy. just spent half a day to compile wx 2.9, now boost seems to be the next problem.
3769 2011-06-21 22:24:34 <sytse> hardy heron.. ouch.
3770 2011-06-21 22:24:37 <Joric> sounds fun
3771 2011-06-21 22:24:45 <kiba> yo
3772 2011-06-21 22:24:47 <sytse> time for an upgrade? :P
3773 2011-06-21 22:24:50 <kiba> any of you read The Bitcoin Weekly?
3774 2011-06-21 22:24:51 <prof7bit> no
3775 2011-06-21 22:24:54 <prof7bit> old laptop
3776 2011-06-21 22:24:58 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3777 2011-06-21 22:25:01 <redshark1802> i did it with this guide http://lickthesalt.com/2010/08/19/compiling-bitcoin-on-ubuntu-10-04-lucid/
3778 2011-06-21 22:25:05 JRWR has joined
3779 2011-06-21 22:25:20 <redshark1802> success on the first try with the standard client
3780 2011-06-21 22:25:32 <prof7bit> broken dvd drive, i won't install anything that could put me in danger of having to boot from CD
3781 2011-06-21 22:25:41 <sytse> prof7bit: btw, hardy isn't even supported by ubuntu anymore
3782 2011-06-21 22:25:46 <sytse> :P
3783 2011-06-21 22:25:47 <prof7bit> i know
3784 2011-06-21 22:25:49 <sytse> boot from usb?
3785 2011-06-21 22:25:52 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
3786 2011-06-21 22:25:52 <redshark1802> you could use usb
3787 2011-06-21 22:26:01 <sytse> anyway. Boost should be easy to install manually
3788 2011-06-21 22:26:12 <redshark1802> just run update-manager -d should work
3789 2011-06-21 22:26:33 <sytse> (could even be that all you need is headers; maybe the only boost libraries required by bitcoin are header-only libraries)
3790 2011-06-21 22:26:41 <prof7bit> i'm just downloading boost 1.46...
3791 2011-06-21 22:27:02 IO- has joined
3792 2011-06-21 22:27:14 <sytse> ah, no, boost datetime has a library
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3798 2011-06-21 22:34:00 <prof7bit> are there more dependencies besides wx and boost that might cause me problems?
3799 2011-06-21 22:34:05 Juffo-Wup has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3800 2011-06-21 22:34:28 <redshark1802> libdb4.7++-dev maybe
3801 2011-06-21 22:35:20 <prof7bit> i have installed 4.5 from the repositories, I hope this is enough?
3802 2011-06-21 22:35:30 <redshark1802> should be
3803 2011-06-21 22:35:34 <redshark1802> just try it
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3806 2011-06-21 22:36:15 cwestbro` is now known as cwestbrook
3807 2011-06-21 22:37:45 <vegard> hm, I am not able to get more than ~580 connections. is this the size of the network or a limit of my connection? I am pretty sure I had ~700 the other day
3808 2011-06-21 22:38:06 WildSoil has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3809 2011-06-21 22:38:09 <redshark1802> lol thats moooore than enough
3810 2011-06-21 22:38:38 <vegard> yeah, I know, just testing the limits
3811 2011-06-21 22:39:15 <redshark1802> it depends on the connection speed, you network card and you router
3812 2011-06-21 22:39:30 f33x has joined
3813 2011-06-21 22:39:36 <redshark1802> a few other things but they shouldnt have much effect
3814 2011-06-21 22:39:55 <redshark1802> *your
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3822 2011-06-21 22:42:36 <Optimo> is the mailing list up or whatever was decided?
3823 2011-06-21 22:42:47 <Optimo> what is the link to that?
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3836 2011-06-21 22:52:29 accel has joined
3837 2011-06-21 22:52:35 <accel> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto <-- holy shit, is the bitcoin founder anonymous?
3838 2011-06-21 22:52:40 DiSTANT187 has quit ()
3839 2011-06-21 22:52:54 <Optimo> duh
3840 2011-06-21 22:53:53 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3841 2011-06-21 22:54:01 <kiba> yes
3842 2011-06-21 22:54:34 <kiba> the developers that currently inhabit the bitcoin project seems to be a bunch of non-offensive politicans
3843 2011-06-21 22:54:52 <kiba> I guess that's their role
3844 2011-06-21 22:55:17 vokoda has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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3846 2011-06-21 22:56:04 <accel> this is insane
3847 2011-06-21 22:56:11 <accel> so bitcoin paper was released by a guy over anonymous email over tor
3848 2011-06-21 22:56:22 <accel> someone needs to make this into a movie
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3855 2011-06-21 22:57:46 <kiba> accel: what's insane about bitcoin being founded by an anonymous inventor?
3856 2011-06-21 22:57:55 <kiba> that's the operandi modus of the bitcoin project
3857 2011-06-21 22:58:03 <kiba> to disrupt
3858 2011-06-21 22:58:06 <Optimo> it has a poetic flare when you first learn of it
3859 2011-06-21 22:58:31 <accel> it's ... legendary
3860 2011-06-21 22:58:41 <kiba> can you imagine being famous for something but people don't even know that you're famous for it?
3861 2011-06-21 22:59:05 <accel> no way; i'm too much of an attention whore
3862 2011-06-21 22:59:11 <Optimo> imagine having to debate in your mind whether to release your money virus onto the world
3863 2011-06-21 22:59:22 <accel> if I invented bitcoin; it'd be on my CV
3864 2011-06-21 22:59:32 cacheson has joined
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3866 2011-06-21 22:59:47 <accel> and I'd go to bars and tell women my work will save the future of humanity from oppresisve governments
3867 2011-06-21 22:59:56 <accel> and talk about the utopia of anonymous transactions
3868 2011-06-21 23:00:00 <Optimo> if you wanted to see is flourish as long as you could you would have to stay anonymous
3869 2011-06-21 23:00:12 <accel> err, in orer to stay alive?
3870 2011-06-21 23:00:25 <Optimo> you'd be dead before bitcoin replaces the usd (which it could ;p)
3871 2011-06-21 23:00:35 <redshark1802> oh sony got 20times raped in the past two months #AntiSec
3872 2011-06-21 23:00:39 <Optimo> dark forces
3873 2011-06-21 23:00:44 enquire has joined
3874 2011-06-21 23:00:44 <accel> why? after you release bitcoin ideas
3875 2011-06-21 23:00:49 <accel> why would people go after you
3876 2011-06-21 23:00:52 <accel> you've already don eht edamage
3877 2011-06-21 23:01:00 <kiba> if they go after you and kill you
3878 2011-06-21 23:01:01 <Optimo> because people are dumb
3879 2011-06-21 23:01:02 <kiba> you will be dead
3880 2011-06-21 23:01:18 <kiba> but if you stay anonymous, you will see how you change the world
3881 2011-06-21 23:01:36 <Atterall> Satoshi might have other reasons for staying anonymous, he might have a reputation that inhibits adoption of the currency.
3882 2011-06-21 23:01:54 <kiba> or he might be an AI
3883 2011-06-21 23:01:56 <accel> if you goal is to stay alive long enough to see your work change the world
3884 2011-06-21 23:02:00 <accel> wouldn't a better idea
3885 2011-06-21 23:02:00 <kiba> and ya knhow how people wanna kill an AI
3886 2011-06-21 23:02:07 <accel> be to frame someone else as the founder?
3887 2011-06-21 23:02:17 <accel> i.e. if it's anonymous, people want to know hwo invented bitcoin
3888 2011-06-21 23:02:18 <Optimo> accel, such is satoshi
3889 2011-06-21 23:02:23 <Optimo> could be a fake name
3890 2011-06-21 23:02:28 <kiba> accel: you would need the right guy to frame
3891 2011-06-21 23:02:29 <accel> if you can point it at some other real life computer security researcher
3892 2011-06-21 23:02:37 <accel> then viola
3893 2011-06-21 23:02:40 <kiba> otherwise, what happen if you frame a power mad pyschopath?
3894 2011-06-21 23:02:40 <Optimo> oh I see what you mean
3895 2011-06-21 23:02:44 karnac has joined
3896 2011-06-21 23:02:55 <accel> not a problem if you frame them anonymously
3897 2011-06-21 23:03:03 <Optimo> someone with more dolalrs than your little coin project
3898 2011-06-21 23:03:05 <Optimo> will kill you
3899 2011-06-21 23:03:09 <kiba> no
3900 2011-06-21 23:03:15 <kiba> he might use his power for evil
3901 2011-06-21 23:03:21 <kiba> because he is famous
3902 2011-06-21 23:03:31 <kiba> ya can abuse fame
3903 2011-06-21 23:03:33 <Optimo> destroys bitcoin
3904 2011-06-21 23:03:53 <accel> bitcoin deserves a nobel prize in economics
3905 2011-06-21 23:04:04 _Netsniper_ is now known as Netsniper
3906 2011-06-21 23:04:19 <Optimo> meh nobel
3907 2011-06-21 23:04:43 Eisenaxt has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
3908 2011-06-21 23:05:04 <Optimo> bitcoin deserves a fair shot. all us devs gotta make it happen
3909 2011-06-21 23:05:27 <kiba> bitcoin is money
3910 2011-06-21 23:05:28 <gmaxwell> nobel prize in economics = formal dunce cap
3911 2011-06-21 23:05:35 <kiba> doesn't need a damn nobel prize!
3912 2011-06-21 23:06:39 <accel> you nkow what?
3913 2011-06-21 23:06:44 <accel> satoshi has inspired me
3914 2011-06-21 23:06:45 <accel> to use tor
3915 2011-06-21 23:06:57 <kiba> any of ya have spare bitcons?
3916 2011-06-21 23:07:21 <kiba> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20235.0
3917 2011-06-21 23:07:21 <Netsniper> :)
3918 2011-06-21 23:07:27 <kiba> could use a few bitcents for my magazine
3919 2011-06-21 23:07:35 <gmaxwell> (Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences is not a real Nobel prize, but the economics wanks realized that people would take them more seriously if they had a prize so they talked some bank into bankrolling one)
3920 2011-06-21 23:07:52 <kiba> plus
3921 2011-06-21 23:08:03 <kiba> Paul Krugman got a nobel prize of economics
3922 2011-06-21 23:08:11 <kiba> and Obama got a Nobel peace prize
3923 2011-06-21 23:08:35 <kiba> Obama is a war president
3924 2011-06-21 23:08:41 <kiba> not a peace monger
3925 2011-06-21 23:09:15 <kiba> the prizes are a joke
3926 2011-06-21 23:09:45 wardearia has joined
3927 2011-06-21 23:10:09 <accel> kiba: I have 0 bitcoins. Can you transfer me 0.01 ?
3928 2011-06-21 23:10:09 <jtaylor> the peace price is a junk, the scientific ones are good
3929 2011-06-21 23:10:58 bobke has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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3932 2011-06-21 23:11:45 <accel> why was 10 minutes chosen as the average block time?
3933 2011-06-21 23:11:54 <accel> why 50 BTC every 10 minutes rather than 5 BTC every minute?
3934 2011-06-21 23:12:26 bill_h has joined
3935 2011-06-21 23:12:39 <Atterall> thats the way the math worked out
3936 2011-06-21 23:13:14 <accel> where? I don't see it in the bitcoin white paper
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3938 2011-06-21 23:15:10 <bill_h> I'm interested in starting another project based on the Bitcoin codebase. The Bitcoin block chain basically maps cryptographic keys to numeric values(account balances). I would like to modify the software to create a second network that maps cryptographic keys to string values.
3939 2011-06-21 23:15:55 <BTCTrader> sounds cool bill
3940 2011-06-21 23:16:04 <bill_h> The idea is that the string values could be used by humans to more easily exchange public keys with each other than fingerprints in Hex.
3941 2011-06-21 23:16:08 <BTCTrader> there was another project called namecoins built off the bitcoin code
3942 2011-06-21 23:16:45 <accel> what would be the motivation
3943 2011-06-21 23:16:50 <accel> for people to run your distributed timestamping service?
3944 2011-06-21 23:17:34 <accel> http://forum.bitcoin.org/?action=printpage;topic=3801.0 <-- this is fasicnating
3945 2011-06-21 23:17:38 <bill_h> The best thing I've come up with so far is personal security.
3946 2011-06-21 23:17:39 <accel> if I ever release anything anonymously
3947 2011-06-21 23:17:49 <accel> I'm going to shovel it through google translate first
3948 2011-06-21 23:18:05 <bill_h> People may also want to "mine for names".
3949 2011-06-21 23:18:47 <bill_h> My idea is that each block will contain a limited amount of space for defining new names. People may want to mine for popular names in order to sell them to others.
3950 2011-06-21 23:19:04 <meLon> bill_h, #namecoin
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3954 2011-06-21 23:22:02 <gmaxwell> bill_h: you could call it namecoin!
3955 2011-06-21 23:22:31 pierce has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3956 2011-06-21 23:24:29 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3957 2011-06-21 23:24:32 <bill_h> gmaxwell: You don't say. :)
3958 2011-06-21 23:25:04 <ericmock> porncoin?
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3960 2011-06-21 23:25:44 <gmaxwell> bill_h: see also https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Alternative_Chains
3961 2011-06-21 23:25:52 * ericmock is sure that isn't a new idea either
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3963 2011-06-21 23:26:40 <gmaxwell> bill_h: see also http://dot-bit.org/Main_Page
3964 2011-06-21 23:27:06 AnAdorableNick has joined
3965 2011-06-21 23:27:19 <ericmock> does 0.3.23rc1 supersede 0.3.23?
3966 2011-06-21 23:27:45 <enki> rc1 is release candidate
3967 2011-06-21 23:27:49 <enki> so before
3968 2011-06-21 23:28:03 <ericmock> Yea, but it's listed 'later' on github...
3969 2011-06-21 23:28:09 Evious is now known as Bearaware
3970 2011-06-21 23:29:06 <ericmock> oh, github doesn't list in chronological order...
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