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  18 2011-06-23 00:07:42 <luke-jr> basilfaulty: NMC
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  20 2011-06-23 00:09:17 <kfr> luke-jr why don't you mine BTC and buy NMC with them instead?
  21 2011-06-23 00:13:49 bittwist is now known as OhBama
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  25 2011-06-23 00:14:32 <phantomcircuit> kfr, profit margin is higher on namecoin
  26 2011-06-23 00:14:55 <kfr> phantomcircuit: Huh? You get more USD per Mh/s mining BTC
  27 2011-06-23 00:15:04 <kfr> NMC is currently 50% below BTC
  28 2011-06-23 00:15:08 <kfr> It used to be higher
  29 2011-06-23 00:15:13 <kfr> But then it dropped by 75%
  30 2011-06-23 00:15:18 <phantomcircuit> difficulty is about 100x lower...
  31 2011-06-23 00:15:24 <kfr> No
  32 2011-06-23 00:15:35 <luke-jr> NMC difficulty is about to drop, so I'll wait
  33 2011-06-23 00:15:51 <kfr> It's 15.7 times lower and the exchange ratio is 50% too low
  34 2011-06-23 00:16:02 <kfr> It's 0.033
  35 2011-06-23 00:16:15 <kfr> BTC/NMC has to be at least 0.0637 to make mining NMC worth
  36 2011-06-23 00:16:26 <kfr> Right now you should mine BTC and buy NMC with them
  37 2011-06-23 00:16:36 <kfr> That gives you +100% Mh/s in NMC basically :P
  38 2011-06-23 00:17:30 Bearaware is now known as Evious
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  48 2011-06-23 00:28:41 <jtaylor> but nmc's may get worthless when someone buys .bit from icann
  49 2011-06-23 00:29:22 sabalaba has joined
  50 2011-06-23 00:29:34 <JRWR> lol
  51 2011-06-23 00:29:55 <JRWR> and you know what, it should be the .bit devs :)
  52 2011-06-23 00:30:30 <OhBama> it'll be the person with the most drones to fill forms
  53 2011-06-23 00:30:35 <OhBama> so MS or Apple
  54 2011-06-23 00:31:03 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  55 2011-06-23 00:31:58 WildSoil has joined
  56 2011-06-23 00:32:03 <JRWR> i thought getting a custom TLD wasnt that hard, as long as you had a resone
  57 2011-06-23 00:32:24 <jtaylor> the sheet for the application procedure has 100+ pages
  58 2011-06-23 00:32:27 <jtaylor> and you need 200k USD
  59 2011-06-23 00:32:29 <jtaylor> i call that hard
  60 2011-06-23 00:32:47 <WildSoil> IF i get now 1btc/24h how much i do get when difficulty increase comes ?
  61 2011-06-23 00:32:53 IncitatusOnWater has joined
  62 2011-06-23 00:33:02 <WildSoil> 0.5btc/24h ?
  63 2011-06-23 00:33:05 <jtaylor> learn basic math -.-
  64 2011-06-23 00:33:31 <jtaylor> 877000 now, ~1.200.000 then
  65 2011-06-23 00:33:55 davex__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  66 2011-06-23 00:34:00 <nuthin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gENVB6tjq_M&feature=related
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  73 2011-06-23 00:38:51 <grifa> does anyone use gigabyte ati 5870oc?
  74 2011-06-23 00:38:54 Silverpike has joined
  75 2011-06-23 00:39:02 <grifa> how can i unlock voltage control?
  76 2011-06-23 00:39:14 <devrandom> #bitcoin-mining
  77 2011-06-23 00:43:35 <go1dfish> jtaylor: how would someone buying .bit make namecoins worthless?
  78 2011-06-23 00:43:47 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  79 2011-06-23 00:43:53 <AlonzoTG> Since all the current devels are a bunch of clowns, I'm going to have to try to write my own bitcoin demon. The design goal is 10,000 perfectly executed transactions per second for 20 years without interruption. I'm considering two programming languages for this: Ada and Erlang.
  80 2011-06-23 00:44:09 <JRWR> na
  81 2011-06-23 00:44:14 <JRWR> use what the banks use
  82 2011-06-23 00:44:18 <JRWR> Colbalt
  83 2011-06-23 00:44:23 <AlonzoTG> COBOL.
  84 2011-06-23 00:44:29 <AlonzoTG> Nah,
  85 2011-06-23 00:44:29 <JRWR> sorry :P
  86 2011-06-23 00:44:38 segfault64 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  87 2011-06-23 00:44:38 <JRWR> wait i know
  88 2011-06-23 00:44:46 <JRWR> make a bitcoind in brainfuck
  89 2011-06-23 00:44:56 <AlonzoTG> ;)
  90 2011-06-23 00:44:58 <nuthin> you
  91 2011-06-23 00:45:05 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
  92 2011-06-23 00:45:05 gruez has quit (Quit: Page closed)
  93 2011-06-23 00:45:08 <AlonzoTG> Well, it's not going to be INTERCAL
  94 2011-06-23 00:45:11 enquirer has joined
  95 2011-06-23 00:45:13 <droud> Has anyone put together a graphic of all the bitcoin transactions yet?
  96 2011-06-23 00:45:32 <droud> Or an interactive explorer maybe?
  97 2011-06-23 00:45:35 <JRWR> or make is in PURE javascript runnable in wscript
  98 2011-06-23 00:45:41 <nuthin> yes!
  99 2011-06-23 00:45:45 <AlonzoTG> I think most people will be able to read ADA programs and it has many features for promoting high-reliability programming.
 100 2011-06-23 00:46:14 <AlonzoTG> Erlang is a bit more sphisticated but has facilities for debugging a live system.
 101 2011-06-23 00:47:33 <Namegduf> You mean like every other language?
 102 2011-06-23 00:47:34 Guest90785 is now known as elnato
 103 2011-06-23 00:47:43 * Namegduf knows how to use gdb
 104 2011-06-23 00:47:43 bitcoiner has joined
 105 2011-06-23 00:48:15 <nuthin> gdb is pretty difficult
 106 2011-06-23 00:48:27 <droud> AlonzoTG: Live as in running even though you're examining it, gdb tends to halt execution.
 107 2011-06-23 00:48:29 <nuthin> but I'm no expert
 108 2011-06-23 00:48:43 <Namegduf> droud: Doesn't have to.
 109 2011-06-23 00:48:58 <Namegduf> You can attach GDB, set break points or tracepoints (which do not break), and resume.
 110 2011-06-23 00:49:09 <AlonzoTG> http://www.archive.org/details/ErlangTheMovie
 111 2011-06-23 00:49:11 <droud> Yeah, that whole resume thing...
 112 2011-06-23 00:49:22 <droud> You've already halted execution if you have to resume.
 113 2011-06-23 00:49:30 <Namegduf> Yeah, at attach time, for a few seconds.
 114 2011-06-23 00:49:32 <Namegduf> Stop being a moron.
 115 2011-06-23 00:49:38 <Namegduf> That's not a problem.
 116 2011-06-23 00:49:42 <nuthin> lulz
 117 2011-06-23 00:49:55 <droud> *shrug* Alright.
 118 2011-06-23 00:51:18 <droud> Are there any tools or resources to find the total transaction count in the block chain?
 119 2011-06-23 00:51:27 <upb> oh so youre going to upgrade by binary patching and converting the structures in memory right ?:P @ Namegduf
 120 2011-06-23 00:51:35 <droud> Right now I'd prefer the easy answer, any websites track that?
 121 2011-06-23 00:51:49 <Namegduf> upb: No, but that's not the thing under discussion, duh.
 122 2011-06-23 00:52:03 * Namegduf doesn't usually insult people's intelligence, but come on, at least *try*.
 123 2011-06-23 00:52:21 <upb> i thought that was the argument AlonzoTG made re using erlang
 124 2011-06-23 00:52:50 <Namegduf> He said it has facilties for debugging on a live system, no mention of upgrading or bugfixes. I don't know what argument he was trying to make.
 125 2011-06-23 00:53:04 <droud> Huh...google.com is down for me.
 126 2011-06-23 00:53:22 <Namegduf> It's not a very useful thing to look for in a bitcoin node, though, because bitcoin nodes, you can just spawn more of them and redundantly use any.
 127 2011-06-23 00:53:23 <droud> And bing.com is fine.  Nice.
 128 2011-06-23 00:53:35 <nuthin> google.com down?!?!
 129 2011-06-23 00:53:38 <nuthin> the rapture!
 130 2011-06-23 00:53:46 <nuthin> ragnarok!
 131 2011-06-23 00:54:12 <Namegduf> Fine here, so I assume a regional issue.
 132 2011-06-23 00:54:22 <droud> Nah, it's just a downed router somewheres.
 133 2011-06-23 00:54:50 <nuthin> how can you be sure?
 134 2011-06-23 00:55:05 <nuthin> that guy did say the rapture would happen at the same time in each timezone
 135 2011-06-23 00:55:08 <droud> I'm tracerouting it?
 136 2011-06-23 00:55:28 <nuthin> we're all doomed! dooooooomed!
 137 2011-06-23 00:55:35 <droud> Wouldn't that give most of the world a bit of warning?
 138 2011-06-23 00:56:14 <freakazoid> droud: don't try to apply reason to claims of the rapture.
 139 2011-06-23 00:56:24 hachque has joined
 140 2011-06-23 00:56:24 <dsockwell> droud: that would be fine, he already warned them long before
 141 2011-06-23 00:56:29 <nuthin> http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_hVOW2U7K4-M/TUt5F3tJ3tI/AAAAAAABbR0/XuBNHTvtnhM/s640/5b3ba1839c04076bf53d6d58328923d7e3343b9e_m
 142 2011-06-23 00:56:32 <nuthin> hihi
 143 2011-06-23 00:56:32 <freakazoid> you can't use reason to disprove claims that were not arrived at using reason
 144 2011-06-23 00:56:40 aristidesfl has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 145 2011-06-23 00:56:41 <dsockwell> ^
 146 2011-06-23 00:56:50 <nuthin> yeah, I agree with that
 147 2011-06-23 00:56:57 <nuthin> perhap
 148 2011-06-23 00:56:58 <nuthin> s
 149 2011-06-23 00:57:15 <droud> I humbly submit that it's quite fun to bash idiots with reason.
 150 2011-06-23 00:57:28 <droud> Entertaining, at least.
 151 2011-06-23 00:57:33 <freakazoid> fun but ultimately useless for anything but entertainment purposes
 152 2011-06-23 00:57:43 jsnyder has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 153 2011-06-23 00:57:55 <droud> Indeed.  So how about that transaction count?
 154 2011-06-23 00:57:56 <freakazoid> Most of what I find entertaining these days is talking about helping solve the world's problems or at least positioning myself to profit from them
 155 2011-06-23 00:58:15 <freakazoid> !stats
 156 2011-06-23 00:58:16 <BCBot>  Stats: http://bit.ly/bitcoin-irc-stats
 157 2011-06-23 00:58:27 <freakazoid> That url goes nowhere
 158 2011-06-23 00:58:43 netsky has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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 160 2011-06-23 00:59:46 <freakazoid> Isn't there a bot that will give me the transaction count from teh past few blocks?
 161 2011-06-23 01:00:01 <freakazoid> or I can just go to blockexplorer.com
 162 2011-06-23 01:00:37 pyrx has joined
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 164 2011-06-23 01:01:29 pyrx is now known as baconfish
 165 2011-06-23 01:01:31 <ImRoot702> hi guys im starting to play around with multiple wallet files. does anyone have any existing documentation I can read on this topic? i've found one thread on the forums but the findings are inconclusive.
 166 2011-06-23 01:01:45 <droud> I just figured out I could send it a number of blocks to give me the average tx count per block from.
 167 2011-06-23 01:01:52 <droud> 6.244 overall average.
 168 2011-06-23 01:03:09 <droud> Still under a million transactions?  I would have thought many more.
 169 2011-06-23 01:03:38 <baconfish> hi so im trying to setup my own bitcoin network. so far I have 3 virtualized linux machines that are connected to ONLY each other.... I can't figure out why blocks aren't being generated. Each node reports 0 blocks.... I'm not sure what i'm missing. If anyone could point in the right direction that would be great.
 170 2011-06-23 01:04:20 MtGox_Adam has joined
 171 2011-06-23 01:04:28 <freakazoid> I bet you need a seed block of some kind to start the ball rolling
 172 2011-06-23 01:04:54 netsky has joined
 173 2011-06-23 01:05:27 <droud> baconfish: Well, do you have any machines mining on your network?
 174 2011-06-23 01:05:35 noagendamarket has joined
 175 2011-06-23 01:05:46 <baconfish> yes they are all mining. so do i have to generate my own genesis block?
 176 2011-06-23 01:06:24 <baconfish> looking under the logs I see that the hard coded genesis block is added to the chain... at least I think so.
 177 2011-06-23 01:09:21 <baconfish> does anybody have any experience with this? im not sure how I would go about making the initial block. My understanding of the whole block generation proceadure is weak.
 178 2011-06-23 01:10:29 <baconfish> So far I have 3 nodes, each connected to the other 2 on a private network. im using the bitcoin daemon.... looking at the source code right now.
 179 2011-06-23 01:10:47 <baconfish> hoping to get some understanding of this. but damn its not exactly trivial.
 180 2011-06-23 01:10:48 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 181 2011-06-23 01:11:09 <droud> baconfish: Honestly not sure, what's the previous hash on block 0 though?
 182 2011-06-23 01:11:52 <baconfish> its 0x000000..00
 183 2011-06-23 01:12:02 <dsockwell> i run games on linux just fine
 184 2011-06-23 01:12:06 vinsci has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 185 2011-06-23 01:12:27 sneak has joined
 186 2011-06-23 01:12:42 <droud> Might as well just copy it then.
 187 2011-06-23 01:12:43 <dsockwell> baconfish: you need a c&c irc server.  it's disturbingly similar to running a botnet
 188 2011-06-23 01:13:25 <dsockwell> just the functions are beneficient and not malevolent
 189 2011-06-23 01:13:26 <baconfish> why? isnt that just for connecting the bots to each other? i have the ips hard coded so they connect to each other right
 190 2011-06-23 01:14:03 TheZimm has joined
 191 2011-06-23 01:14:09 <dsockwell> baconfish: do you get  connection count?
 192 2011-06-23 01:14:14 <baconfish> ya 2 each
 193 2011-06-23 01:15:01 <dsockwell> so your end goal is to start mining
 194 2011-06-23 01:15:08 <baconfish> ya
 195 2011-06-23 01:15:16 vinsci has joined
 196 2011-06-23 01:15:30 <baconfish> they are communicating to each other via bitcoin i can see it in the logs... i just need them to make those damn coins
 197 2011-06-23 01:15:36 <dsockwell> have you tried just configuring the clients to mine?
 198 2011-06-23 01:15:46 <baconfish> yes all have generating=true
 199 2011-06-23 01:15:48 <dsockwell> oh you said so before
 200 2011-06-23 01:15:58 <freakazoid> will a client mine if there are no blocks in the chain?
 201 2011-06-23 01:16:04 <dsockwell> so you need an initialization vector
 202 2011-06-23 01:16:08 <freakazoid> how does it even decide that it's received the whole chain?
 203 2011-06-23 01:16:38 <dsockwell> probably something like [genesisblock, difficulty, addressversion, etc]
 204 2011-06-23 01:16:38 <droud> ...copy it over, customize it with your own wallet address so you don't lose the seed coins.
 205 2011-06-23 01:17:09 <dsockwell> and you need to inject it into the network
 206 2011-06-23 01:17:36 <baconfish> so i should rewrite the genesis block so that one of my clients recieves the coins?
 207 2011-06-23 01:18:01 <droud> baconfish: Sure if the hash is all 0's it shouldn't matter right?
 208 2011-06-23 01:18:19 <baconfish> ya
 209 2011-06-23 01:18:24 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 210 2011-06-23 01:18:58 molecular has joined
 211 2011-06-23 01:19:41 <baconfish> okay so if the genesis block points to an address that isnt one of my nodes then the network wont start? i kept the genesis block to the default -- built in one
 212 2011-06-23 01:19:42 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 213 2011-06-23 01:19:57 TheZimm has quit (Quit: When will we learn?)
 214 2011-06-23 01:20:18 <baconfish> dsockwell do you know how i would go about making this block to inject?
 215 2011-06-23 01:20:33 <dsockwell> i haven't a clue, i'm sorry
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 220 2011-06-23 01:21:29 <dsockwell> baconfish: it's pretty late in the US, maybe someone more involved in development will be around during business hours (or late-night hacking hours)
 221 2011-06-23 01:21:53 gsathya has joined
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 223 2011-06-23 01:22:00 <dsockwell> baconfish: try searching the bitcoin forums, or posting your question there, as well.
 224 2011-06-23 01:22:20 TheZimm has joined
 225 2011-06-23 01:22:37 <dsockwell> i'm interested in how it would be done as well
 226 2011-06-23 01:22:38 ForceMajeure has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 227 2011-06-23 01:22:56 ForceMajeure_ is now known as ForceMajeure
 228 2011-06-23 01:24:40 <baconfish> yeah it is a bit late. thanks anyways, i'll have a look at the forum. so far I havent seen much on it.
 229 2011-06-23 01:24:52 backwardation25 has joined
 230 2011-06-23 01:24:53 <baconfish> this has been challenging me for last couple of days. haha.
 231 2011-06-23 01:24:55 <xtalmath> I think satoshi has a trick up his sleeve and it will be one million answers to everything (1000 000 * 42) including the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything.. expect BTC value to drop by 50% and happiness to rise by infinite %
 232 2011-06-23 01:25:10 <xtalmath> thats explains "21" million
 233 2011-06-23 01:27:35 gjs278 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 234 2011-06-23 01:27:39 <xtalmath> the theoretical factor predicted by theory lies incredibly close to x2 and was verified to 16 decimal places (and bitcoins dont go finer)
 235 2011-06-23 01:28:21 gjs278 has joined
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 243 2011-06-23 01:37:14 <egecko> is there a particular UserAgent required to connect to a bitcoin server?
 244 2011-06-23 01:39:55 <thermal> egecko: there aren't any bitcoin servers, simply an irc-based bootstrap and then interconnecting peers
 245 2011-06-23 01:41:08 <egecko> right
 246 2011-06-23 01:41:23 <egecko> heres a better context
 247 2011-06-23 01:41:30 TigerdriverX has joined
 248 2011-06-23 01:41:42 <egecko> writing a client (i.e. bitcoin.exe)
 249 2011-06-23 01:42:08 <egecko> i was gonna allow the user to put in the url of a bitcoin node
 250 2011-06-23 01:42:18 <egecko> and then connect
 251 2011-06-23 01:42:22 OhBama has left ()
 252 2011-06-23 01:42:38 <egecko> works great if im running it locally and it can talk to bitcoin.exe
 253 2011-06-23 01:43:36 Leo_II has joined
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 255 2011-06-23 01:44:05 <egecko> as soon as i try to connect to a remote node though it comes back with a bad request response code
 256 2011-06-23 01:44:25 <thermal> so you want to explicitly connect to bitcoin running on a peer?
 257 2011-06-23 01:45:00 <egecko> i wanna just post my requests to say a pool instead of going through the local rpc
 258 2011-06-23 01:45:15 torsthaldo has joined
 259 2011-06-23 01:46:03 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 260 2011-06-23 01:47:14 <egecko> like from say.. a fone
 261 2011-06-23 01:47:49 <wasabi1> Really wish I knew what you were talking about.
 262 2011-06-23 01:48:18 subpar_ has joined
 263 2011-06-23 01:48:23 <egecko> ok.. you got bitcoin.exe, the client app. then there is bitcoind.exe the daemon that can run headless.
 264 2011-06-23 01:48:36 <egecko> bitcoin talks to the other peers
 265 2011-06-23 01:49:04 segfault64 has joined
 266 2011-06-23 01:49:08 <egecko> now, your typical miner app
 267 2011-06-23 01:49:10 <wasabi1> bitcoin.exe and bitcoind.exe are the same program.
 268 2011-06-23 01:49:14 <wasabi1> One just doesn't have a UI.
 269 2011-06-23 01:49:19 <wasabi1> But yeah.
 270 2011-06-23 01:49:19 <egecko> say guiminer or diablominer
 271 2011-06-23 01:49:21 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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 273 2011-06-23 01:49:44 <egecko> you have to have a bitcoin app (w or w/o gui) running for these things to talk to via a local rpc call
 274 2011-06-23 01:49:54 <egecko> and they are just posting json data back and forth
 275 2011-06-23 01:49:59 <wasabi1> By "local RPC call" you mean a HTTP request with JSON data.
 276 2011-06-23 01:50:12 <wasabi1> Also "local RPC" is a pretty dumb phrase.
 277 2011-06-23 01:50:15 <wasabi1> As R stands for remote.
 278 2011-06-23 01:50:21 <egecko> local RPC call == http request with json data posted to 127.0.0.1
 279 2011-06-23 01:50:41 <egecko> so
 280 2011-06-23 01:50:41 <wasabi1> Uh huh.
 281 2011-06-23 01:51:06 <egecko> now say i have my fone and have a client that can construct properly formatted requests
 282 2011-06-23 01:51:12 <wasabi1> phone?
 283 2011-06-23 01:51:48 <egecko> i should be able to send the same commands to bitcoin, whether that is a local copy running or a pool node running that i have credentials to login to
 284 2011-06-23 01:52:15 <wasabi1> Not really.
 285 2011-06-23 01:52:16 <wasabi1> But okay.
 286 2011-06-23 01:52:17 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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 289 2011-06-23 01:54:16 <egecko> explain what part i am missing
 290 2011-06-23 01:54:25 <luke-jr> phone is spelled with a ph
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 292 2011-06-23 01:54:36 <wasabi1> Why the remote server, or pool, would implement anything other than getwork.
 293 2011-06-23 01:54:48 <wasabi1> And also what the heck the point is.
 294 2011-06-23 01:54:54 <luke-jr> egecko: pools aren't bitcoind
 295 2011-06-23 01:55:06 <luke-jr> and phones are worthless for mining
 296 2011-06-23 01:55:19 <wasabi1> Think he'd want to use the phone to send money.
 297 2011-06-23 01:55:20 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 298 2011-06-23 01:55:24 <wasabi1> That's my interpretation of that anyways.
 299 2011-06-23 01:55:31 <egecko> pools have to run a server for the mining clients to connect to
 300 2011-06-23 01:55:36 <wasabi1> Uh huh.
 301 2011-06-23 01:55:40 <wasabi1> But why would they run bitcoind?
 302 2011-06-23 01:55:43 <egecko> and yes, phones would be worthless for mining
 303 2011-06-23 01:56:07 <wasabi1> ANd lets pretend they were bitcoind
 304 2011-06-23 01:56:08 <egecko> essentially you would use the PHone to send bitcoins around
 305 2011-06-23 01:56:17 <wasabi1> what the hell would you want a pool to do for you?
 306 2011-06-23 01:56:32 <egecko> process a transaction like they are already doing
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 308 2011-06-23 01:56:48 <luke-jr> egecko: miners don't process transactions
 309 2011-06-23 01:56:48 <wasabi1> What?
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 311 2011-06-23 01:57:03 <wasabi1> This conversation is confusing.
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 313 2011-06-23 01:57:10 <wasabi1> I have yet to even figure out what the point you want to accomplish is.
 314 2011-06-23 01:57:22 <egecko> send coins from a fone.
 315 2011-06-23 01:57:30 <egecko> simple problem
 316 2011-06-23 01:57:31 <wasabi1> Okay. Easy. Connect to a bitcoind.
 317 2011-06-23 01:57:42 <wasabi1> Maybe use some other more secure protocol than plain text HTTP.
 318 2011-06-23 01:57:47 <egecko> right
 319 2011-06-23 01:57:56 <egecko> is there a public bitcoind running somewhere?
 320 2011-06-23 01:58:05 <wasabi1> How would that fucking matter?
 321 2011-06-23 01:58:11 <wasabi1> You want to send somebody elses coins?
 322 2011-06-23 01:58:45 <jercos> He wants remote management.
 323 2011-06-23 01:58:46 <luke-jr> egecko: …….
 324 2011-06-23 01:58:59 <luke-jr> egecko: anyhow, the protocol doesn't exist yet
 325 2011-06-23 01:59:02 <wasabi1> I think I know what he wants, but he has a very twisted view of what these peices he's talking about are.
 326 2011-06-23 01:59:18 <wasabi1> bitcoind (or bitcoin) hold your wallet.
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 328 2011-06-23 01:59:21 <luke-jr> wasabi1: he wants MyBitcoin with a protocol
 329 2011-06-23 01:59:26 <egecko> i am essentially rewriting bitcoin.exe for a phone
 330 2011-06-23 01:59:34 <jercos> wasabi1: bitcoind actually is also the client for bitcoind :p
 331 2011-06-23 01:59:38 <wasabi1> You cannot use the JSON API to send money that isn't in the wallet of the bitcoind yor're connecting to.
 332 2011-06-23 01:59:55 <luke-jr> egecko: bad idea
 333 2011-06-23 01:59:56 <wasabi1> If there was a public bitcoind, it would, therefor, have a wallet. And it wouldn't be yours.
 334 2011-06-23 02:00:03 <luke-jr> egecko: also, pretty sure someone's done it
 335 2011-06-23 02:00:07 <egecko> ah. ding. thank you.
 336 2011-06-23 02:00:11 <jercos> It's easy enough to do.
 337 2011-06-23 02:00:11 <egecko> light just went off :)
 338 2011-06-23 02:00:31 <luke-jr> but do you really want to carry your savings on you?
 339 2011-06-23 02:00:38 <egecko> yeah, you just have to run bitcoind somewhere and allow people to setup accounts
 340 2011-06-23 02:00:43 <jercos> Change two lines in the source, and shabam, you can connect from anywhere.
 341 2011-06-23 02:00:56 <jercos> egecko: currently, there aren't accounts in bitcoin's code per se, it's "all or nothing"
 342 2011-06-23 02:01:04 <egecko> right
 343 2011-06-23 02:01:04 <luke-jr> egecko: bitcoind doesn't support accounts
 344 2011-06-23 02:01:10 <jercos> Pools generally run a proxy that only allows getwork, or their own custom implementation.
 345 2011-06-23 02:01:42 <wasabi1> Yeah there's a lot of accounting to be done.
 346 2011-06-23 02:01:49 <wasabi1> ANd also adjusting the target, etc.
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 365 2011-06-23 02:17:39 <egecko> ok. excellent.
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 369 2011-06-23 02:19:25 <hipeopl> mtgox going up soon?
 370 2011-06-23 02:20:03 <Juffo-Wup> maybe
 371 2011-06-23 02:20:13 <Juffo-Wup> mt gox hasn't been up for ten days
 372 2011-06-23 02:20:16 <Juffo-Wup> ...because that would be too long!
 373 2011-06-23 02:20:18 <Juffo-Wup> *bow, bow, bow*
 374 2011-06-23 02:21:04 <hipeopl> ???
 375 2011-06-23 02:21:12 <Juffo-Wup> never mind, that joke (which i stole anyway) didn't really work out
 376 2011-06-23 02:21:55 <hipeopl> .........
 377 2011-06-23 02:22:02 <egecko> so query.. say i send someone some bitcoins and they dont fire up their bitcoin app for like months.. obviously the coins are still in the bitcoin network, i assume they just are in an unreceived state?
 378 2011-06-23 02:22:35 segfault64 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 379 2011-06-23 02:22:58 <egecko> or at least credited to the receiving address and then when the person opens bitcoin again they are magically accounted for
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 390 2011-06-23 02:34:45 <xtalmath> I was thinking about competing blocktrails in the blockchain, it makes sense to distinguish haphazard splits from heavy mining attacks, suppose 2 miners find a different next block in ambiguous closeness, what about allowing the hash that was a little later to be accepted as a next block for half the mining reward? right now its in the interest (yet quite hopeless) of accidental fork to try and compute the next block on his own (you never know if
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 394 2011-06-23 02:36:52 <xtalmath> are there any statistics on how many side chains have formed and how long they were? obviously less than 100 some blocks or we would have had troubles, but can one view how long some of these attempted side chains are?
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 402 2011-06-23 02:42:44 <phantomcircuit> xtalmath, the longest one in recent history was 6 blocks long (thus the 6 block confirmation limit)
 403 2011-06-23 02:45:15 <xtalmath> idea for a new block chain: CrackCoin, the block chain also keeps all the posted submitted password hashes, you can bid X coins to crack a hash within Y blocks, the block with transactions that first solves a valuable enough (difficulty will correspond to how long the hash exists in the block chain) password is accepted, different password hashes are supported
 404 2011-06-23 02:46:16 BTCTrader__ has quit (Quit: BTCTrader__)
 405 2011-06-23 02:46:48 <xtalmath> ophcracks website has a web form that takes a few seconds, and visitors are in a que, so first reflex of miners will be to direct it to ophcrack website for LM hashes, of course ophcrack will shut that service down but also profit since miners will buy there bigger rainbow tables.
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 408 2011-06-23 02:47:56 <xtalmath> the constant need of black hat crackers worldwide to quickly crack a hash will keep the value of the coins up (they have to buy coins to let the network solve them)
 409 2011-06-23 02:48:12 <xtalmath> we are happy, and the fed is happy :D
 410 2011-06-23 02:48:58 <xtalmath> since it can become the most costeffective way for investigators to access encrypted data
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 423 2011-06-23 03:01:03 <pakaran> hmm
 424 2011-06-23 03:01:14 <pakaran> am i right in thinking that someone is mining on the testnet pretty heavily?
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 432 2011-06-23 03:06:06 <cuddlefish> Does getaccountaddress create the account?
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 434 2011-06-23 03:06:40 <ImRoot702> pakaran, i think so... im trying to mine for some testing and it's taking way to long IMO
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 437 2011-06-23 03:07:07 <cuddlefish> (the JSON-RPC call)
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 439 2011-06-23 03:07:54 <Nibiru_> what's happening to make the btc client more secure?
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 441 2011-06-23 03:08:17 <pakaran> ImRoot702, just use the faucet
 442 2011-06-23 03:08:19 <pakaran> or actually
 443 2011-06-23 03:08:22 <cuddlefish> Nibiru_: we're deleting random wallet.dats until people learn to encrypted backup
 444 2011-06-23 03:08:23 <pakaran> how many btc do you need?
 445 2011-06-23 03:08:25 <ImRoot702> pakaran, ?
 446 2011-06-23 03:08:33 josephholsten has joined
 447 2011-06-23 03:08:33 <pakaran> for your tests?
 448 2011-06-23 03:08:40 <pakaran> because i have quite a lot of test coins
 449 2011-06-23 03:08:54 <ImRoot702> pakaran, just a couple to pass around to different wallets.
 450 2011-06-23 03:08:58 <ImRoot702> can i get 10?
 451 2011-06-23 03:09:00 Sedra has joined
 452 2011-06-23 03:09:45 <pakaran> sure
 453 2011-06-23 03:09:49 <pakaran> what's your address?
 454 2011-06-23 03:10:05 <Nibiru_> so nothing then
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 463 2011-06-23 03:14:10 <Nibiru_> because the current client is unusable for widespread use
 464 2011-06-23 03:14:43 <cuddlefish> Does the JSON-RPC  call getaccountaddress create the account? If not, how do I create an accoount?
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 473 2011-06-23 03:24:27 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: pretty happy with genjix' /. answers
 474 2011-06-23 03:24:48 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: see my above question?
 475 2011-06-23 03:25:09 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: yes, it creates the account
 476 2011-06-23 03:25:12 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, good
 477 2011-06-23 03:25:20 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: excellent :<
 478 2011-06-23 03:26:19 Lenovo01 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 479 2011-06-23 03:26:36 <egecko> query.. i did not realize you could send coins to an IP address.  why would this be done?
 480 2011-06-23 03:26:58 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
 481 2011-06-23 03:27:01 <jgarzik> egecko: ignore that, it is (a) disabled by default and (b) going away
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 483 2011-06-23 03:29:49 <egecko> someone mentioned that the comment field is going away as well?
 484 2011-06-23 03:30:08 <egecko> why? that seems like a valuable piece of the bitcoin
 485 2011-06-23 03:31:31 <kunnis> Yeah, logging transaction IDs would be nice, things like that
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 489 2011-06-23 03:36:38 <jgarzik> egecko: the command field is not going away
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 491 2011-06-23 03:36:56 <jgarzik> kunnis: 'listtransactions' shows your transaction log
 492 2011-06-23 03:37:40 <egecko> excellent! i thought that would be foolish and nonsensical given theres a comment in the genesis block
 493 2011-06-23 03:38:45 <egecko> what is the comment-to field for though?
 494 2011-06-23 03:39:13 Rabbit67890 has joined
 495 2011-06-23 03:40:08 <jgarzik> egecko: comments are only stored in your wallet; never in transactions or the block chain.
 496 2011-06-23 03:40:21 <jgarzik> that has always been the case.
 497 2011-06-23 03:40:27 <egecko> ah!
 498 2011-06-23 03:40:29 <egecko> ok :)
 499 2011-06-23 03:40:32 <egecko> that makes sense now
 500 2011-06-23 03:40:52 <egecko> any plans to add a field to the coins? ;)
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 504 2011-06-23 03:44:21 <jgarzik> egecko: nope
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 529 2011-06-23 04:11:27 <egecko> so, the sendfrom (and i assume the sendtoaddress) api calls return a txn id
 530 2011-06-23 04:12:34 <egecko> what is the txn id in relation to the two coins generated in the transaction and the account id and the address being sent to?
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 532 2011-06-23 04:15:43 <egecko> its the key to the coin that represents the remainder of the transaction back to the sender right?
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 540 2011-06-23 04:21:23 <egecko> its the reserve key.. woot
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 560 2011-06-23 04:49:19 <curiositysquared> how large would a bounty have to be (in bitcoins) for it to be worth looking for an sha-256 collision while mining?
 561 2011-06-23 04:50:08 <curiositysquared> If I'm thinking about it correctly, it would have to be astronomical. Even if the entire bitcoin network were looking for a collision it would take an eternity.
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 565 2011-06-23 04:53:13 <hipeopl> [Update June 23 - 03:45 GMT] T-Minus 23 Hours and 15 Minutes until Launch.
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 576 2011-06-23 05:07:12 <pakaran> hi, how do I start a client using a separate, new, wallet?
 577 2011-06-23 05:07:24 <pakaran> I want to do some testing with the "using 2 clients to anonymize for people" idea
 578 2011-06-23 05:07:34 <pakaran> see how hard it really is to operate by hand
 579 2011-06-23 05:07:53 <doublec> create a directory to contain the new wallet's files
 580 2011-06-23 05:07:53 <GarrettB> pakaran: start with -datadir=PATH
 581 2011-06-23 05:07:57 <doublec> and use datadir
 582 2011-06-23 05:08:14 <doublec> and conf
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 584 2011-06-23 05:08:19 <pakaran> and an empty directory will work fine?
 585 2011-06-23 05:08:28 <doublec> yes
 586 2011-06-23 05:08:59 <doublec> pakaran: don't forget to run the second bitcoin instance on a different port
 587 2011-06-23 05:09:11 <doublec> (assuming you're running two bitcoind's at the same time)
 588 2011-06-23 05:09:21 <pakaran> i'm behind a nat, actually
 589 2011-06-23 05:09:31 <pakaran> so in practice i don't get incoming connections
 590 2011-06-23 05:09:45 <doublec> pakaran: I'm talking about running two bitcoind's on the same machine
 591 2011-06-23 05:09:55 <doublec> pakaran: but with different wallets
 592 2011-06-23 05:10:28 <pakaran> can i just run it with -nolisten?
 593 2011-06-23 05:10:39 <doublec> pakaran: you'll want a different rpcport
 594 2011-06-23 05:10:43 <egecko> your cant
 595 2011-06-23 05:10:46 <grbgout> doublec: hey, how's namecoin goin'?
 596 2011-06-23 05:10:47 <egecko> err you cant
 597 2011-06-23 05:10:55 <egecko> have to have separate instances
 598 2011-06-23 05:10:56 <doublec> egecko: can't what?
 599 2011-06-23 05:10:59 <doublec> egecko: why not?
 600 2011-06-23 05:11:07 <egecko> you cant run multiple wallets from the same instance
 601 2011-06-23 05:11:15 <doublec> egecko: you run multiple instances
 602 2011-06-23 05:11:18 <egecko> you have to have multiple instances
 603 2011-06-23 05:11:20 <egecko> right
 604 2011-06-23 05:11:39 <egecko> thats a nightmare from the management perspective too
 605 2011-06-23 05:11:45 <pakaran> alright, thanks
 606 2011-06-23 05:11:49 jivvz has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
 607 2011-06-23 05:11:57 <doublec> grbgout: it's going ok. The network is a bit slow since a number of miners left once the arbitrage opportunities dropped
 608 2011-06-23 05:12:10 <egecko> yay!
 609 2011-06-23 05:12:16 <doublec> egecko: I run multiple instances ocassionally
 610 2011-06-23 05:12:21 <pakaran> the anonymization technique I learned about is, basically, you put (say) 20 bitcoin in client B, then ask customers to send bitcoin to be anonymized to an address you give them from client A.
 611 2011-06-23 05:12:25 <grbgout> doublec: I learned about the exchange a few weeks ago.
 612 2011-06-23 05:12:27 <egecko> might actually be able to mine some coins :)
 613 2011-06-23 05:12:32 <doublec> egecko: my 'savings' wallet is run from a different datadir and instance
 614 2011-06-23 05:12:36 <grbgout> pretty interesting stuff.  Is that your exchange?
 615 2011-06-23 05:12:40 <doublec> egecko: I bring it up when I want to transfer to/from it
 616 2011-06-23 05:12:42 <doublec> grbgout: yep
 617 2011-06-23 05:12:55 <grbgout> doublec: nice, do you run a pool on it as well?
 618 2011-06-23 05:13:00 <doublec> grbgout: yep
 619 2011-06-23 05:13:11 <doublec> grbgout: http://bitparking.com/pool and https://exchange.bitparking.com
 620 2011-06-23 05:13:18 <pakaran> once you have 20 waiting, you send them their coins (or minus a commission) from client B, and then when client B has balance 0, you send it another 20 from client A
 621 2011-06-23 05:13:20 <grbgout> doublec: cool
 622 2011-06-23 05:14:10 <grbgout> I might point my 1.4 Ghps at it one of these days just for fun ;)
 623 2011-06-23 05:14:11 <doublec> grbgout: to give you an idea in the drop in power, the pool was at 300 ghash a week ago
 624 2011-06-23 05:14:16 <grbgout> wow
 625 2011-06-23 05:14:27 <doublec> the entire network was 950 ghash
 626 2011-06-23 05:14:31 <doublec> now it's 200 or so
 627 2011-06-23 05:14:44 <grbgout> that's crazy
 628 2011-06-23 05:14:47 <doublec> yeah
 629 2011-06-23 05:14:55 <grbgout> Is there a competing implementation, or something?
 630 2011-06-23 05:14:57 <hipeopl> u guys think btc will crash once mtgox opens?
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 632 2011-06-23 05:15:06 <grbgout> hipeopl: I don't.
 633 2011-06-23 05:15:22 <doublec> grbgout: no, just that people mined like crazy when it was very profitable due to difficulty differences with the bitcoin chain and the nmc/btc price
 634 2011-06-23 05:15:23 <egecko> no way
 635 2011-06-23 05:15:35 <grbgout> doublec: gotchya
 636 2011-06-23 05:15:39 <doublec> mtgox might crash, bitcoin won't
 637 2011-06-23 05:15:47 <grbgout> doublec: indeed, hah!
 638 2011-06-23 05:16:11 <grbgout> well crap, now I'll have to figure out how to determine at what BTC difficulty it will be more profitable to mine namecoins >_<
 639 2011-06-23 05:16:14 <doublec> (no disrespect meant to mtgox, just their load will be enormous when they open)
 640 2011-06-23 05:17:08 <doublec> grbgout: namecoin.us lists some pools and their current hash rates
 641 2011-06-23 05:17:17 <midnightmagic> No, namecoin mining crashed once people stopped being willing to pay more BTC per mining effort in namecoin than they could get just by mining bitcoins.
 642 2011-06-23 05:17:35 <doublec> http://www.namecoin.us/pools.php
 643 2011-06-23 05:17:49 <doublec> midnightmagic: isn't that basically what I said?
 644 2011-06-23 05:18:49 <midnightmagic> Yes, we were typing it together..
 645 2011-06-23 05:18:54 <doublec> hehe
 646 2011-06-23 05:19:07 <midnightmagic> I was answering grbgout too..
 647 2011-06-23 05:20:10 <midnightmagic> NMC is also getting way way way cheaper too..
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 651 2011-06-23 05:21:48 <taub> how big is the testnet blockchain?
 652 2011-06-23 05:21:52 <taub> cuz im on dialup
 653 2011-06-23 05:23:34 <egecko> so exactly how do you cash out namecoins for local fiat currency?  it appears there is only a namecoin to bitcoin exchange.. nmc -> btc -> fiat seems like a good way to double your transaction fees and reduce your total fiat currency
 654 2011-06-23 05:27:04 earthmeLon has joined
 655 2011-06-23 05:27:15 <doublec> egecko: someone's planning an nmc<->usd exchange
 656 2011-06-23 05:27:30 <doublec> I did nmc<->btc because the idea of instant deposit/trade/withdraw appealed to me
 657 2011-06-23 05:27:57 <doublec> and ideally I'd like to see more btc/nmc usage and less fiat in the nmc/btc world
 658 2011-06-23 05:28:11 <pakaran> ok, it turns out two clients can run fine on one system if one of them has -nolisten set
 659 2011-06-23 05:29:35 <pakaran> hmm
 660 2011-06-23 05:30:29 <pakaran> i'm debating whether i want to run the "two-client hand anonymization" idea tonight...  not enough people on to make it really "anonymous" (especially if you send me non-round numbers)
 661 2011-06-23 05:31:01 <pakaran> also, the "client B" that I set up in a new empty directory is still downloading the testnet block chain
 662 2011-06-23 05:32:00 <pakaran> if I do it, I wouldn't mind volunteers here to send me test bitcoins (I'll probably set the "pool size" before repaying to something small, like 10 test coins, and the faucet typically gives 5 per visit)
 663 2011-06-23 05:32:21 <pakaran> also, someone is mining heavily on testnet now, so we won't have to wait long for confirmations
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 665 2011-06-23 05:32:40 <pakaran> it *is* annoying that it's taking awhile for my "client b" to download the block chain
 666 2011-06-23 05:33:02 <sacarlson> doublec: I'm not sure but wouldn't double instance of bitcoin cause a conflict on port 8333 ?
 667 2011-06-23 05:33:13 <doublec> sacarlson: run with -port
 668 2011-06-23 05:33:23 <doublec> sacarlson: and have the two instances use a different port
 669 2011-06-23 05:33:23 <pakaran> i just ran
 670 2011-06-23 05:33:26 <pakaran> wxbitcoin -testnet -datadir=testnet2 -nolisten&
 671 2011-06-23 05:33:33 <pakaran> and then a regular wxbitcoin -testnet
 672 2011-06-23 05:33:33 <sacarlson> doublec: I guess that would work then
 673 2011-06-23 05:33:37 <pakaran> and they're both working fine
 674 2011-06-23 05:33:54 <sacarlson> doublec: I have 3 instances but on different chains
 675 2011-06-23 05:34:12 <doublec> sacarlson: I have two chains (namecoin/bitcoin)
 676 2011-06-23 05:34:31 <doublec> sacarlson: and I bring up a 'savings' instance with a different datadir to access stored coins
 677 2011-06-23 05:34:46 <sacarlson> doublec: oh I would assume namecoin uses a different port anyway doesn't it?
 678 2011-06-23 05:34:46 <doublec> sacarlson: which decrypts/encrypts a wallet on startup/shutdown
 679 2011-06-23 05:35:04 <doublec> sacarlson: it does, 8334
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 681 2011-06-23 05:35:38 <doublec> I find using different instances with a datadir easier than manually copying wallet.dat's around
 682 2011-06-23 05:35:39 <sacarlson> doublec: that would work
 683 2011-06-23 05:35:46 underscor has joined
 684 2011-06-23 05:36:10 <sacarlson> doublec: but if you have to transact then you also have to wait for the money to clear before you can spend it
 685 2011-06-23 05:36:35 <doublec> sacarlson: yep, I'm fine with that
 686 2011-06-23 05:36:44 <sacarlson> doublec: but I'm not sure there is any way to break up a walet localy into smaller parts
 687 2011-06-23 05:37:13 <hipeopl> really u can only have one?
 688 2011-06-23 05:37:23 <sacarlson> doublec: I think there is a way to merge 2 walets localy into one
 689 2011-06-23 05:37:44 <sacarlson> hipeopl: no you can have infinite number of walets
 690 2011-06-23 05:38:13 <doublec> sacarlson: yes more tools are needed to extract/import keys
 691 2011-06-23 05:38:23 <curiositysquared> has mining activity dropped precipitously recently?
 692 2011-06-23 05:38:45 <sacarlson> doublec: you can extract keys they have that already
 693 2011-06-23 05:38:55 <pakaran> ok
 694 2011-06-23 05:39:00 <pakaran> let me see how my client b is doing
 695 2011-06-23 05:39:11 <pakaran> i just like this idea (which is only mentioned in the wiki)
 696 2011-06-23 05:39:26 <pakaran> would be very useful for, say, a chinese bitcoin user looking to buy a book on freedom
 697 2011-06-23 05:39:37 <pakaran> (a use case mentioned on the forum, and one I like to visualize)
 698 2011-06-23 05:40:18 <pakaran> ok, client b just has about 2000 blocks to download
 699 2011-06-23 05:40:34 <doublec> sacarlson: do you have a link to the tools?
 700 2011-06-23 05:40:50 <pakaran> I guess if anyone wants to anonymize test bitcoins, send me an address for you to send to, and the amount below 10 you want to send
 701 2011-06-23 05:41:04 <sacarlson> doublec: I thought it was build in to the later releases or maybe just the git
 702 2011-06-23 05:41:11 <pakaran> (obviously, in a commercial implementation, this is something that would be handled by a web front end
 703 2011-06-23 05:41:18 ox8o has joined
 704 2011-06-23 05:41:49 <pakaran> i'm going to do a "pool" of 10 test bitcoins this run, and I'll actually pay back twice your money for helping me test the idea of doing it by hand
 705 2011-06-23 05:42:02 <sacarlson> doublec: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8091.0
 706 2011-06-23 05:42:09 <pakaran> (I can get 20 bitcoins in 4 hits on the faucet - and in fact that's exactly what I did)
 707 2011-06-23 05:42:34 freakazoid has joined
 708 2011-06-23 05:43:04 <pakaran> anyone?
 709 2011-06-23 05:43:36 <doublec> sacarlson: thanks
 710 2011-06-23 05:43:52 Fairuser is now known as AFK!~Fairuser@static-50-53-33-113.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net|Fairuser
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 718 2011-06-23 05:48:24 <sacarlson> pakaran: you want me to send you some tnbtc?
 719 2011-06-23 05:48:29 jargon has quit (Client Quit)
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 721 2011-06-23 05:48:41 <pakaran> sacarlson, I have plenty, I just want to test the idea
 722 2011-06-23 05:49:07 <pakaran> send me an amount under 10, or a number of amounts totaling 10 from different keys
 723 2011-06-23 05:49:17 <pakaran> and then i'll send you twice that from my client b
 724 2011-06-23 05:49:20 jargon has joined
 725 2011-06-23 05:49:35 <pakaran> and we'll be able to see on blockexplorer that there's no way to trace which bitcoins you put in
 726 2011-06-23 05:49:51 <sacarlson> pakaran: so you want to send me some tnbtc ?  mpFDoZP8WCPBAfQgTuDxGPTutFao6wxEaT
 727 2011-06-23 05:50:02 d1234 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 728 2011-06-23 05:50:32 <pakaran> i actually just sent you 10
 729 2011-06-23 05:50:44 <pakaran> but that defeats the purpose of the experiment lol
 730 2011-06-23 05:50:59 <sacarlson> pakaran: you can pass tnbtc in and out of the http://exchange.beertokens.info site if you want to do it on a more regular basis
 731 2011-06-23 05:51:58 <sacarlson> pakaran: so were do you want me to send you back the 10 tnbtc?
 732 2011-06-23 05:52:02 ox8o has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 733 2011-06-23 05:52:25 <pakaran> miHnjGUj6xWsAHpeCsoNn89HvFbg4zFAiA
 734 2011-06-23 05:52:28 <pakaran> just send all 10
 735 2011-06-23 05:52:48 <pakaran> but i'll send it from my client b to different addresses, if you like, and in units of 1 tnbtc
 736 2011-06-23 05:52:58 <sacarlson> pakaran: recieved your "txid" : "87a6fe710272f92ce01a5b13cc45b0d6200e5cb44be8b90ccc1f8587ca5fd903",
 737 2011-06-23 05:53:44 <pakaran> right, now imagine those are "dirty" bitcoins
 738 2011-06-23 05:54:54 [Author] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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 740 2011-06-23 05:58:06 <pakaran> exchange.beertokens.info is interesting
 741 2011-06-23 05:58:07 freakazoid has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 742 2011-06-23 05:58:14 <pakaran> what the heck are BEER and WEEDS though?
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 747 2011-06-23 06:00:20 <sacarlson> pakaran: beer and weeds see http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9493.msg138247#msg138247
 748 2011-06-23 06:04:48 sabalaba has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 749 2011-06-23 06:04:57 <sacarlson> pakaran: ok I sent your miHnjGUj6xWsAHpeCsoNn89HvFbg4zFAiA 1 ntbtc  seems like good profit to me
 750 2011-06-23 06:10:04 <Optimo> has anyone gotten a 'okay' after submitting their claim and proofs?
 751 2011-06-23 06:10:41 <Gekz> no
 752 2011-06-23 06:10:43 <sacarlson> Optimo: lucky I only had $1.22 in mtgox at the time
 753 2011-06-23 06:10:52 <nanotube> can anyone confirm this bug: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=16553.msg267938#msg267938
 754 2011-06-23 06:10:55 <Gekz> i had 10 btc
 755 2011-06-23 06:11:05 <Optimo> but why am I seeing posts about it opening in 24 hours if nobody has been released yet?
 756 2011-06-23 06:11:15 <Optimo> yeah I had about 10 btc in there too
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 758 2011-06-23 06:11:25 <nanotube> Optimo: probably yet another overoptimistic deadline (tm), brought to you by mtgox :)
 759 2011-06-23 06:11:52 <Optimo> oh and the thing that mentioned extra fees for two-step authentication LMAO
 760 2011-06-23 06:12:16 <Optimo> 'subscription' lulz
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 786 2011-06-23 06:31:48 <guest_> so what do I need to do to get multiple bitcoind instances running on the same machine?
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 788 2011-06-23 06:32:22 <guest_> it seems they're all trying to listen on 8333, or if I set it to nolisten then they all listen on 1833 -.-
 789 2011-06-23 06:32:28 <guest_> *18333
 790 2011-06-23 06:35:22 <guest_> I tried upnp too, still no good
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 792 2011-06-23 06:37:51 <doublec> guest_: use -port to change the port
 793 2011-06-23 06:38:09 <guest_> really?  I guess that is undocumented...
 794 2011-06-23 06:38:18 <doublec> guest_: yes, I grepped the source code
 795 2011-06-23 06:38:23 <guest_> thx!
 796 2011-06-23 06:38:26 <doublec> np
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 801 2011-06-23 06:41:44 <egecko> oi
 802 2011-06-23 06:41:55 <guest_> hmm... so I'm still getting this error: ************************ UNKNOWN EXCEPTION bitcoin in ProcessMessage()
 803 2011-06-23 06:42:01 <egecko> having to convert floats to int64s...
 804 2011-06-23 06:42:12 <guest_> it works great with one instance, but as soon as I fire up the second it throws loads of those
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 808 2011-06-23 06:43:23 <guest_> I can run either instance #1 or #2 by itself, but if I try to run both at the same time they dump those errors to stdout
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 827 2011-06-23 07:05:02 <tuoppi> Has anyone received their account back to Mt.Gox?
 828 2011-06-23 07:05:04 underscor has joined
 829 2011-06-23 07:05:32 <tuoppi> I've been waiting 41 hours after submitting the claim page proof etc
 830 2011-06-23 07:05:51 <assassindrake> tuoppi, no and you might want to go to #mtgox to ask about mtgox
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 832 2011-06-23 07:06:21 <tuoppi> k thanks
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 850 2011-06-23 07:32:13 <genewitch> is ther eany reason that bitcoind and pushpoold are using 100% CPU for hours?
 851 2011-06-23 07:33:38 <Ken`> Hello, I would like to appeal to bitcoin veterans for a simple question. Have there been any viable ideas yet on how governments can tax their citizens through bitcoin? I tried searching on the forum but it's hard to weed out all the bad proposals.
 852 2011-06-23 07:34:00 <cacheson> Ken`: same way they tax cash transactions
 853 2011-06-23 07:34:23 <genewitch> vendor's responsibility
 854 2011-06-23 07:34:38 <Ken`> vendor's responsibility is one model i noticed
 855 2011-06-23 07:35:25 <ersi> Ken`: There's no way of verifying the amount an certain individual holds
 856 2011-06-23 07:35:56 <gjs278> everyone says vendor responsiblity because they are just trying to cheat their way out of sales tax
 857 2011-06-23 07:36:06 <ersi> The easiest way for the goverements to earn taxes, would be VAT
 858 2011-06-23 07:36:09 <Ken`> gjs278: that's how it feels for me too
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 860 2011-06-23 07:37:01 <genewitch> why is the block so big
 861 2011-06-23 07:37:03 <genewitch> wtf
 862 2011-06-23 07:37:07 <cacheson> eh, as long as cash continues to be used it's pretty much a moot point
 863 2011-06-23 07:37:27 <genewitch> 287MB for blk0001.dat
 864 2011-06-23 07:37:40 <ersi> that's not "The Block"
 865 2011-06-23 07:37:46 <ersi> That's all of the blocks
 866 2011-06-23 07:37:53 <ersi> ;;bc,stats
 867 2011-06-23 07:37:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 132757 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 298 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 5 hours, 23 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1352297.37959331
 868 2011-06-23 07:38:08 <ersi> 287/132757
 869 2011-06-23 07:38:11 <genewitch> then what's blkindex.dat
 870 2011-06-23 07:38:18 <genewitch> 128<B
 871 2011-06-23 07:38:21 <genewitch> 138MB
 872 2011-06-23 07:38:35 <genewitch> i am just trying to figure out why bitcoind is shitting itself whenever i start it
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 877 2011-06-23 07:43:31 <sipa> genewitch: blk0001.dat is the blocks itself
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 879 2011-06-23 07:44:01 <genewitch> meh it doesn't matter, it's not crashing anymore
 880 2011-06-23 07:44:27 <sipa> blkindex.dat contains the locations of transactions in it and whether they are spent or not
 881 2011-06-23 07:44:54 <genewitch> which transactions, all of them?
 882 2011-06-23 07:45:06 <sipa> yes
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 884 2011-06-23 07:45:42 <genewitch> 187mb seems a little lean for that
 885 2011-06-23 07:46:10 <genewitch> i thought the transaction info was in the blocks themselves
 886 2011-06-23 07:46:52 <genewitch> anyhow as i said, it's not crashing anymore, my pool halted for apparently no reason and after a couple of pkills it's working again
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 898 2011-06-23 08:04:16 <ersi> genewitch: Well, yes - of course the transactions are in the blocks themselfs
 899 2011-06-23 08:04:43 <ersi> But how would you know where a certain transaction is in all of the >130000 blocks? That's why you have a index :)
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 902 2011-06-23 08:07:06 <vragnaroda> anyone here that does osx?
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 916 2011-06-23 08:31:09 <taub> is it possibl to instantly know how many blocks and byte the local file is behind the blockchain?
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 930 2011-06-23 08:51:46 <heeventuli> hi, one question: i'm trying to build bitcoind, it requires libdb_cxx. so i installed libdb4.8++-dev (running ubuntu here), but the libdb_cxx -library still is not found on my system...does anyone now what package of libdb ships with the libdb_cxx lib?
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 938 2011-06-23 09:06:49 <phantomcircuit> heeventuli, do not build against 4.8, it will automatically upgrade any file from 4.7 to 4.8 and then 4.7 clients (the official one!) will not be able to read it
 939 2011-06-23 09:07:26 <phantomcircuit> heeventuli, also i think libdb_cxx is libdb_cxx-4.8 in ubuntu
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 950 2011-06-23 09:21:33 <jtaylor> 4.7 is official? debian is changing to 5.1 default this release cycle o_O
 951 2011-06-23 09:24:28 <jtaylor> and when debian changes something everybody else usually already did so long ago ;)
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 953 2011-06-23 09:27:10 <jtaylor> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=621101
 954 2011-06-23 09:28:05 <phantomcircuit> jtaylor, yeah i dont actually understand it myself (personally i use 4.8 because i know what im doing)
 955 2011-06-23 09:28:15 <phantomcircuit> but i dont suggest other people do unless they think they know better
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1013 2011-06-23 10:59:04 <lfm> total hashes for the net is over 1e13 hashes/sec
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1061 2011-06-23 11:43:02 <Soak> hi, my bitcoind crashes with 512mo of RAM on my ubuntu 10.09 LTS server, how many RAM I need please?
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1066 2011-06-23 11:44:59 <phantomcircuit> Soak, it's variable bursts upto 1.5G during initial block download, then you can restart and it'll be much lower
1067 2011-06-23 11:45:06 <Soak> :o
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1074 2011-06-23 12:02:00 <prof7bit> memory leak?
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1080 2011-06-23 12:07:22 <prof7bit> btw: is actually anybody currently working on the scaling problem or is it still like "theoretically we could..." and in the meantime the bitcoin netwok is degrading with increasing speed and there are only discussions about which GUI toolkit would have the nicest looking buttons?
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1095 2011-06-23 12:18:28 <mrtn_> Hello. What is the status of using a smart card to secure a given account?  Like for protecting from the recent huge theft ?
1096 2011-06-23 12:19:16 <ersi> account?
1097 2011-06-23 12:19:33 <ersi> Do you mean wallet? Or are you talking about MtGox/some exchange now?
1098 2011-06-23 12:19:52 <ersi> There's encryption being worked on if I'm not mistaken. Havn't seen/heard anything about smart cards
1099 2011-06-23 12:20:16 <mrtn_> a wallet in local terms, yes.
1100 2011-06-23 12:20:33 <mrtn_> account releted private keys on a smart card.
1101 2011-06-23 12:20:38 <tcatm> the problem with smartcards is: what do you do when you lose the card?
1102 2011-06-23 12:20:49 <mrtn_> tcatm: backup?
1103 2011-06-23 12:20:51 <ersi> But it's smart! It'll do something about it!
1104 2011-06-23 12:21:04 <tcatm> mrtn_: that's not how a smartcard works. the private keys should never leave the card
1105 2011-06-23 12:21:16 <mrtn_> tcatm: wrong. That epends on the application.
1106 2011-06-23 12:21:28 <mrtn_> secure backup is a tangible problem. Relatively
1107 2011-06-23 12:21:35 <ersi> I'm so pissed off that I forgot my PIN code to my bank auth thingie :| I've remembered that code for very long.. then suddenly after using it.. it was just blank in my memory :|
1108 2011-06-23 12:22:22 <mrtn_> tcatm: what I'm thinking about is reasonable protection to abuse from malware.
1109 2011-06-23 12:22:32 <tcatm> gpg -e wallet.dat :)
1110 2011-06-23 12:22:36 <mrtn_> physical control over an wallet.
1111 2011-06-23 12:22:52 <mrtn_> tcatm: for that to work the wallet should be kept offline...
1112 2011-06-23 12:23:30 <tcatm> sure, just keep wallet.dat.gpg (with large keypool) on a few usb drives, maybe one or two in a bank vault
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1114 2011-06-23 12:24:51 <tcatm> if you have a lot of coins, maybe even get a dedicated netbook just for bitcoin
1115 2011-06-23 12:25:22 <tcatm> running a secure linux with everything except port 8333 outgoing firewalled
1116 2011-06-23 12:27:12 <erus`> just set up a vm for your main bitcoin account
1117 2011-06-23 12:27:23 <erus`> and only transfer into your current account
1118 2011-06-23 12:27:38 <erus`> run openbsd in the vm
1119 2011-06-23 12:27:43 <tcatm> how can you trust your vm when the host is compromised?
1120 2011-06-23 12:28:08 <erus`> because science
1121 2011-06-23 12:28:14 <erus`> ok
1122 2011-06-23 12:28:15 <tcatm> ?
1123 2011-06-23 12:28:22 <erus`> run a tiny openbsd box
1124 2011-06-23 12:28:25 <erus`> with only ssh
1125 2011-06-23 12:28:33 <erus`> one of those plug-in-the-wall things
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1127 2011-06-23 12:28:36 <tcatm> and then ssh from insecure box?
1128 2011-06-23 12:28:37 <erus`> etc etc
1129 2011-06-23 12:28:42 <tcatm> same problem
1130 2011-06-23 12:28:54 <erus`> ok
1131 2011-06-23 12:28:58 <erus`> get a netbook
1132 2011-06-23 12:29:07 <erus`> only run linux with port 8333
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1134 2011-06-23 12:29:09 <tcatm> that's what I suggested :)
1135 2011-06-23 12:30:21 <erus`> whats the cheapest little pc you can buy?
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1137 2011-06-23 12:30:45 <tcatm> I'm thinking about getting an ideapad s10
1138 2011-06-23 12:31:46 <erus`> tcatm: you have many bitcoins?
1139 2011-06-23 12:31:55 <erus`> i have less than 1 so i dont need to worry
1140 2011-06-23 12:32:17 <tcatm> yes, I have many
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1145 2011-06-23 12:38:36 <cosurgi> MagicalTux: can I have UTF-8 symbols in my password?
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1147 2011-06-23 12:39:25 <edcba> i doubt you can say "utf-8" symbol
1148 2011-06-23 12:40:10 <cosurgi> MagicalTux: for example ⇌₂∞∑⟦⇔ⁱℵ℘r̈v⃖Λη ?
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1153 2011-06-23 12:44:20 <DD-> no u cant
1154 2011-06-23 12:46:40 <MagicalTux> cosurgi: it's fine
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1156 2011-06-23 12:49:47 <phedny> haha.. I did that once on some sites, until I couldn't log in when using a computer without IME or something :)
1157 2011-06-23 12:49:52 <FellowTraveler> What happens when the hashing algorithm needs to be swapped out for a new one?  Is there a space in the blockchain for signaling hash algorithm used? Is there room in the protocol for swapping in a new algorithm, as time occasionally demands?
1158 2011-06-23 12:50:55 <tcatm> FellowTraveler: we can hardcoded the change in the client (like use new hashing starting at height X)
1159 2011-06-23 12:51:46 <FellowTraveler> can you go ahead and add transfers that require signoff by X out of Y entities, in the script?
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1162 2011-06-23 12:52:20 <tcatm> FellowTraveler: I think that's possible.
1163 2011-06-23 12:52:27 <FellowTraveler> I know it's possible, I'm asking you to actually add it.
1164 2011-06-23 12:52:45 <FellowTraveler> Basically: when I transfer, instead of sending to a single BTC address, I send to a list of addresses.
1165 2011-06-23 12:52:51 <tcatm> can you come up with the script so it can be tried on testnet?
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1169 2011-06-23 12:53:33 <FellowTraveler> (1) When I send a transfer, it goes to a list of addresses, not just one.   (2) To send back out, the list of addresses must authorize (X out of Y)
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1171 2011-06-23 12:53:38 <FellowTraveler> how would such a script look ?
1172 2011-06-23 12:53:38 <gmaxwell> FellowTraveler: yes https://github.com/groffer/bitcoin/commit/83707c8dd4573bb958f9e504fb6263c8fa1ef942
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1176 2011-06-23 12:54:24 <FellowTraveler> gmaxwell is that already operational in current version of BTC ?
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1178 2011-06-23 12:54:30 <FellowTraveler> can I just… use it ?
1179 2011-06-23 12:54:56 <FellowTraveler> or would everyone on earth have to re-download the client first?
1180 2011-06-23 12:54:59 <gmaxwell> It a patch. Eligius should mine blocks with these transactions. Though you probably should test it on testnet first. :)
1181 2011-06-23 12:55:25 <FellowTraveler> Cool thanks.
1182 2011-06-23 12:55:40 repl has quit (Client Quit)
1183 2011-06-23 12:55:49 repl has joined
1184 2011-06-23 12:57:00 <doublec> do clients relay non-standard transactions?
1185 2011-06-23 12:57:22 <gmaxwell> doublec: you can connect to the free relay net and they'll get relayed to eligius.
1186 2011-06-23 12:57:38 <doublec> oh, I didn't know about that
1187 2011-06-23 12:57:45 <gmaxwell> You if you look you can find some blocks with non-standard txn mined by eligius.
1188 2011-06-23 12:57:56 bctrader has quit (Quit: Quit)
1189 2011-06-23 12:58:25 <gmaxwell> though I do think bitcoin ought to have key recovery for signatures before blockchain escrow becomes common, because otherwise the txn spending them get pretty big, and that would require everyone upgrade.
1190 2011-06-23 12:59:11 Justasic has joined
1191 2011-06-23 12:59:12 scott` has joined
1192 2011-06-23 12:59:29 <FellowTraveler> gmaxwell please elaborate
1193 2011-06-23 13:00:31 <gmaxwell> FellowTraveler: right now you have to disclose the your public key along with each signature. This takes up quite a bit of space for no especially good reason.
1194 2011-06-23 13:00:56 <pisi> blockchain escrow?
1195 2011-06-23 13:01:08 <FellowTraveler> So what, store all keys in a DHT ?
1196 2011-06-23 13:01:10 <FellowTraveler> public keys
1197 2011-06-23 13:01:16 <gmaxwell> what? no!
1198 2011-06-23 13:01:29 xtalmath has joined
1199 2011-06-23 13:01:32 MC1984 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1200 2011-06-23 13:01:32 <gmaxwell> I want a bot that bans people who say DHT in here.
1201 2011-06-23 13:01:39 <doublec> haha
1202 2011-06-23 13:01:47 MC1984 has joined
1203 2011-06-23 13:01:49 <gmaxwell> FellowTraveler: The public key can be recovered from the signature with a bit of computation.
1204 2011-06-23 13:02:13 <gmaxwell> (well, the signature, and the signed data, and the hash of the public key (the address) to validate it)
1205 2011-06-23 13:03:34 <xtalmath> are changes in bitcoin merged into namecoin? i.e. is namecoin 0.19 equivalent to bitcoin 0.19 but with changes to make it namecoin and same for 0.21 .22 .23 ?
1206 2011-06-23 13:03:36 phunction has joined
1207 2011-06-23 13:03:57 <gmaxwell> I think namecoin skipped .21/.22
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1209 2011-06-23 13:04:27 <epscy> what are the current rules about tx fees in the current bitcoin client?
1210 2011-06-23 13:04:32 <gmaxwell> And yes, namecoin git that I looked at recently looks like bitcoin .23 with namecoin changes merged.
1211 2011-06-23 13:04:36 <epscy> it doesn't look like the wiki page has been updated
1212 2011-06-23 13:04:46 <gmaxwell> epscy: yes, the wikipage is out of date.
1213 2011-06-23 13:05:24 <epscy> ok, can you tell me what they are?
1214 2011-06-23 13:05:40 <epscy> the 0.01 was reduced i think?
1215 2011-06-23 13:06:04 <gmaxwell> Normal transactions just have the normal optional fees. Low priority and outputs less that 0.0005 have a 0.0005 fee mandated (the .22 relay rules). 0.0001 fees are relayed for small output /low priority.
1216 2011-06-23 13:06:55 <gmaxwell> (what it lets you do needs to lag what it will relay to avoid users footgunning themselves)
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1220 2011-06-23 13:07:47 <gmaxwell> Unfortunately a lot of the network is still on old code and 0.0005 txns have been taking a long time to get mined in my expirence.
1221 2011-06-23 13:08:00 <doublec> I didn't realise the fees had changed
1222 2011-06-23 13:08:03 <doublec> I'll update the pool
1223 2011-06-23 13:08:22 <prof7bit> will transactions without the fee be automatically rejected by all clients or can this be circumvented by patching the own client?
1224 2011-06-23 13:09:07 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: Without what fee?
1225 2011-06-23 13:09:19 <prof7bit> the minimum required fee
1226 2011-06-23 13:09:30 guest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1227 2011-06-23 13:10:04 <gmaxwell> Normal transactions don't have a minimum required fee. Only transactions that would otherwise trigger the DOS prevention logic in other nodes have a minimue fee (to avoid triggering it)
1228 2011-06-23 13:10:45 <prof7bit> if i enter a small transaction it tells me this requires a fee. is this just the client GUI not letting me proceed at this point or is this in the protocol itself.
1229 2011-06-23 13:11:04 <MrSam> its the gui
1230 2011-06-23 13:11:12 <gmaxwell> And no, removing the fee will only leave you coming back whining about money you lost and asking how to abort a transaction that isn't confirming.  It _may_ make it through (e.g. if it compiles with the .23 relay rules, or you happen to have a permissive peer)
1231 2011-06-23 13:11:26 flykoko has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1232 2011-06-23 13:11:30 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: How small?
1233 2011-06-23 13:11:45 vegard has joined
1234 2011-06-23 13:11:51 <MrSam> > 0.01  goes when you modify the client
1235 2011-06-23 13:11:53 <prof7bit> *really* small, milli btc
1236 2011-06-23 13:12:06 <MrSam> smaller wont get confirmed and lost from your balance
1237 2011-06-23 13:12:09 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: no, I doubt anyone will realy or mine that.
1238 2011-06-23 13:12:10 vegard is now known as Guest27295
1239 2011-06-23 13:12:38 <gmaxwell> MrSam: you don't need to modify the client for down to 0.0005
1240 2011-06-23 13:12:53 <MrSam> ? didn't work here otherwise
1241 2011-06-23 13:13:07 Qatz is now known as DaQatz
1242 2011-06-23 13:13:09 <gmaxwell> MrSam: stop running really old versions of bitcoin.
1243 2011-06-23 13:13:09 nefario has joined
1244 2011-06-23 13:13:23 <prof7bit> if it doesn't get mined will the transaction eventually vanish from the system or will it move around through the network as new transaction until eternity?
1245 2011-06-23 13:13:24 <MrSam> not really
1246 2011-06-23 13:13:40 <MrSam> unless 0.3.23 is old
1247 2011-06-23 13:13:58 <gmaxwell> MrSam: .23 will transmit below 0.01 without a fee just fine.
1248 2011-06-23 13:15:04 <prof7bit> <MrSam> smaller wont get confirmed and lost from your balance  <-- how can it be lost from the balance if it is not in any block?
1249 2011-06-23 13:15:09 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: your client will consider it spent forever and will periodically retransmit it. It will die on the network after a while absent the retransmissions.
1250 2011-06-23 13:15:59 <gmaxwell> Because your client considers it spent. You have to go spelunking with frightening tools to remove the transaction from your client so it will not consider it spent.
1251 2011-06-23 13:15:59 <prof7bit> if i stop and restart the client it will stop retransmitting it?
1252 2011-06-23 13:16:05 <MrSam>         "category" : "send",
1253 2011-06-23 13:16:05 <MrSam>         "amount" : -0.00100000,
1254 2011-06-23 13:16:05 <MrSam>         "fee" : -0.00050000,
1255 2011-06-23 13:16:31 ericmock has joined
1256 2011-06-23 13:16:44 <prof7bit> frightening tools? where is it stored? i thought the only relevant thing is the block chain?
1257 2011-06-23 13:16:46 <MrSam>         "amount" : -0.01000000,
1258 2011-06-23 13:16:46 <MrSam>         "fee" : 0.00000000,
1259 2011-06-23 13:17:04 <MrSam> maybe you have an old version ? ;)
1260 2011-06-23 13:17:16 <epscy> the idea of small transactions in limbo is interesting
1261 2011-06-23 13:17:20 ericmock has quit (Client Quit)
1262 2011-06-23 13:17:31 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: in your wallet.
1263 2011-06-23 13:17:33 <Happy0> MrSam, i'm on 3.23 and i'm getting those fees
1264 2011-06-23 13:17:34 <Happy0> aswell
1265 2011-06-23 13:17:41 <Happy0> which makes testing sending between accounts irritating =p
1266 2011-06-23 13:17:44 <epscy> especially if the value of bitcoin increases and those trasactions become valuable
1267 2011-06-23 13:17:53 <MrSam> Happy0: i use my own testnet ;)
1268 2011-06-23 13:18:03 <Happy0> haha yeah, i should look into that :(
1269 2011-06-23 13:18:08 <MrSam>         "amount" : -1000.00000000,
1270 2011-06-23 13:18:08 <MrSam>         "fee" : 0.00000000,
1271 2011-06-23 13:18:12 <MrSam> ;P
1272 2011-06-23 13:18:13 <epscy> i'd like to think all transactions would get confirmed eventually
1273 2011-06-23 13:18:16 <Happy0> rofl, mrsam xD
1274 2011-06-23 13:18:19 <prof7bit> so there are redundant things stored in the wallet?
1275 2011-06-23 13:18:22 <gmaxwell> MrSam: yea, I'm stupid I guess. The fee required is only 0.0005 but it's actually triggered at >0.01
1276 2011-06-23 13:18:31 <MrSam> Happy0: piece of cake
1277 2011-06-23 13:18:32 <MrSam> sec
1278 2011-06-23 13:18:33 <epscy> but i guess it is possible for them to stay unmined forever
1279 2011-06-23 13:18:39 <prof7bit> things that could (should) be entirely derived from the block chain
1280 2011-06-23 13:18:51 <MrSam> Happy0: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/ , but be sure to turn your firewall o
1281 2011-06-23 13:18:54 <MrSam> n
1282 2011-06-23 13:19:04 <MrSam> gmaxwell: uhu
1283 2011-06-23 13:19:08 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: not yet mined transactions can't be derrived from the blockchain.
1284 2011-06-23 13:19:16 <MrSam> and you can modify your client but they won't ever be accepted
1285 2011-06-23 13:19:33 IncitatusOnWater has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1286 2011-06-23 13:19:36 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: you wouldn't want your txns getting lost because you had connectivity problems at the time you sent and you restarted the client before it got mined.
1287 2011-06-23 13:19:53 <Happy0> MrSam: why should i turn my firewall on? :P
1288 2011-06-23 13:20:11 <gmaxwell> MrSam: yea, I've sent a bunch of >0.01s but they've all be in sendmanys with a 0.0005 fee.
1289 2011-06-23 13:20:16 <MrSam> Happy0: otherwise your own 'network' will try to sync with the testnetwork and all your local data will be overwritten
1290 2011-06-23 13:20:47 <prof7bit> gmaxwell: wouldn't it propagate and all miners would have it in RAM for the next block they are woking on?
1291 2011-06-23 13:21:00 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: when your connectivity is down?
1292 2011-06-23 13:21:16 repl has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1293 2011-06-23 13:21:16 <MrSam> Happy0: well you only have to block 18333 incoming actually
1294 2011-06-23 13:21:19 <prof7bit> if i send it and THEN conectivity goes down
1295 2011-06-23 13:21:29 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: or when the peers you happened to have at the moment you sent fail?
1296 2011-06-23 13:21:44 <MrSam> just download the zip file and start your client with -datadir=/path/to/folder
1297 2011-06-23 13:21:48 repl has joined
1298 2011-06-23 13:21:54 <prof7bit> then it would be lost.
1299 2011-06-23 13:21:56 <MrSam> cpumining takes like 3 minutes on that network
1300 2011-06-23 13:22:03 <MrSam> so great for testing
1301 2011-06-23 13:22:03 <prof7bit> and i ca send it again
1302 2011-06-23 13:22:15 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: right, thats bad. and not robust at all. Connectivity comes and goes.
1303 2011-06-23 13:22:37 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: and the software won't let you send transactions which have no chance of going anywhere.
1304 2011-06-23 13:22:40 <Happy0> mrsam: haha, i see... thanks :)
1305 2011-06-23 13:22:42 <prof7bit> but redundantly storing them in the wallet also does not seem right to me
1306 2011-06-23 13:22:51 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: it's not redundant.
1307 2011-06-23 13:23:03 f33x has quit (Quit: f33x)
1308 2011-06-23 13:23:32 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: it can sometimes take a while for transactions to make it into a block, they need to be kept stored until they can be.
1309 2011-06-23 13:23:39 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1310 2011-06-23 13:23:48 <prof7bit> all confirmed transactions are in the blockchain. unconfirmed ones need not be persisted imho.
1311 2011-06-23 13:24:11 <prof7bit> all miners should have them in RAM
1312 2011-06-23 13:24:18 <gmaxwell> They must be persisted or you there are incentives to try to crash nodes in order to make then forget transactions.
1313 2011-06-23 13:24:52 <gmaxwell> It's not just about miners, today all nodes validate all transactions.
1314 2011-06-23 13:25:12 <gmaxwell> The memory of your transaction prevents the forwarding of double spends that would conflict with it.
1315 2011-06-23 13:25:40 <gmaxwell> You seem to be fixating on this and I'm getting tired of the discussion.
1316 2011-06-23 13:27:30 FellowTraveler has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1317 2011-06-23 13:29:07 <prof7bit> i'm "fixated" because I see no mechanism by which an unconfirmed transaction will eventually vanish from the system ever again.
1318 2011-06-23 13:29:19 segfault64 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1319 2011-06-23 13:29:22 <prof7bit> even if i am not resending it
1320 2011-06-23 13:29:40 <gmaxwell> If you're not resending it everyone else will forget about it.
1321 2011-06-23 13:30:14 <Happy0> i have a question about the peer 2 peerness of bitcoin... where does the client go originally, to find neighbours? somewhere cen-... oh wait, an IRC channel
1322 2011-06-23 13:30:18 <Happy0> i forgot about that one
1323 2011-06-23 13:30:40 <gmaxwell> Happy0: it via DNS, or as a last resort some hardcoded peers.
1324 2011-06-23 13:31:01 <Happy0> haha... nice :P
1325 2011-06-23 13:31:06 <Happy0> but what do you mean by
1326 2011-06-23 13:31:09 <Happy0> 'via DNS'?
1327 2011-06-23 13:32:05 <gmaxwell> dig bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk
1328 2011-06-23 13:32:20 <x6763> gmaxwell: what are the rules in the original client that determine when they will forget about unconfirmed transactions?
1329 2011-06-23 13:32:26 meelu has joined
1330 2011-06-23 13:32:40 <gmaxwell> x6763: the sender will never forget.
1331 2011-06-23 13:33:20 <gmaxwell> x6763: I actually can't find it in the source, I want to say its 144 hours, but I'm not sure.
1332 2011-06-23 13:34:02 <prof7bit> the "frightening tools" to edit the contents of the wallet and remove hopeless transactions, do you have a link to such a tool? or is there some general-purpose berkeley db table editor available and usable for this pupose?
1333 2011-06-23 13:34:37 FellowTraveler has joined
1334 2011-06-23 13:34:42 <x6763> gmaxwell: right (i think there should be an option to resend with a fee for cases when it doesn't confirm as soon as the user wants it to)...144 hours, ok...that sounds familiar and might be right
1335 2011-06-23 13:35:17 <droud> prof7bit: BDB for teh win.
1336 2011-06-23 13:35:20 flykoko2 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1337 2011-06-23 13:37:33 <gmaxwell> I thought there was a post someplace with step by step instructions but my google-fu is failing.
1338 2011-06-23 13:38:55 Guest27295 is now known as vegard
1339 2011-06-23 13:39:53 <prof7bit> can i simply strip my wallet file from *anything* but the keys (bring it back into a virgin state), then plug it into a fresh install and watch it reconstructing my balance and transaction history as it downloads the block-chain again? I imagine this should work if i have understood everything correctly.
1340 2011-06-23 13:40:28 <x6763> i was originally using bdb in the development of my client, but decided to scrap it and use sqlite
1341 2011-06-23 13:40:31 <gmaxwell> ah, someone linked a tool from here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=8843.0
1342 2011-06-23 13:41:04 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: right, thats what the tool linked there does.
1343 2011-06-23 13:41:55 <gmaxwell> or, you could, you know, not modify the client in the first place and thus not put yourself in a situation of needing to do that.
1344 2011-06-23 13:42:01 <x6763> prof7bit: there's a -rescan option to rescan the entire block chain and update your wallet and stuff (but i suspect any unconfirmed transactions you sent will remain in the wallet)
1345 2011-06-23 13:42:07 wilt has quit ()
1346 2011-06-23 13:42:19 <gmaxwell> x6763: they do.
1347 2011-06-23 13:42:31 wilt- has joined
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1349 2011-06-23 13:43:32 <prof7bit> i'm not actually having this poblem, i am only trying to make sure i completely and entirely understand the mechanism and the things it does.
1350 2011-06-23 13:44:26 <prof7bit> therefore i must ask stupid questions sometimes...
1351 2011-06-23 13:44:35 <gmaxwell> completely and entirely? Then read the code. :)
1352 2011-06-23 13:44:39 <kW_> Hello! My bitcoin client seems to not get new blocks, is this problem known and how can I solve this?
1353 2011-06-23 13:45:02 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1354 2011-06-23 13:45:06 <gmaxwell> kW_: What version are you running? Does it show any connections?
1355 2011-06-23 13:45:37 Stellar has joined
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1359 2011-06-23 13:46:28 <kW_> gmaxwell: 0.3.22-beta, 8 connections
1360 2011-06-23 13:46:51 <kW_> gmaxwell: the same client used to work fine before
1361 2011-06-23 13:46:55 <gmaxwell> hmph. .22 has problems getting connections that .23 resolves. But since you have connections ....
1362 2011-06-23 13:47:07 <gmaxwell> How many blocks do you currently have?
1363 2011-06-23 13:47:19 <kW_> gmaxwell: 131655
1364 2011-06-23 13:47:53 <gmaxwell> yea.. your're a while back.
1365 2011-06-23 13:48:01 <gmaxwell> How long have you been up?
1366 2011-06-23 13:48:29 <kW_> gmaxwell: the bitcoin client has been started about 90 minutes ago
1367 2011-06-23 13:48:53 <gmaxwell> And it hasn't moved in all this time?
1368 2011-06-23 13:49:01 <prof7bit> it should display an estimate of the total block number while downloading. it does not need to be trusted, ust a guess, maybe the latest block it has seen being announced by others
1369 2011-06-23 13:49:18 <kW_> gmaxwell: as far as I can tell, yes. I could just restart (with a now known number of blocks) and try again
1370 2011-06-23 13:49:53 <kW_> gmaxwell: I'm also running it with "-printtoconsole", there seems to be quite some traffic (sending and receiving addr, tx inventory, ...)
1371 2011-06-23 13:52:33 <gmaxwell> Did you see lines like version message: version 32200, blocks=132719 ?
1372 2011-06-23 13:52:55 WildSoil has joined
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1374 2011-06-23 13:54:27 <WildSoil> what is estimated time for diff increase now
1375 2011-06-23 13:54:36 <ersi> ;;bc,stats
1376 2011-06-23 13:54:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 132815 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 240 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 23 hours, 48 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1353086.20849808
1377 2011-06-23 13:54:40 <gmaxwell> (I'm trying to figure out if you've somehow ended up on a bitcoin island with 8 other idiot nodes.)
1378 2011-06-23 13:54:47 <ersi> WildSoil: In about a day
1379 2011-06-23 13:54:51 <gmaxwell> s/8/7/
1380 2011-06-23 13:55:15 <WildSoil> yes :D here is many who stop mining when diff increase comes ?
1381 2011-06-23 13:55:28 <ersi> WildSoil: A billion zillions
1382 2011-06-23 13:56:37 v_y has joined
1383 2011-06-23 13:56:49 <v_y> how large is the blockchain db that each client has to hold at the moment?
1384 2011-06-23 13:57:12 <droud> v_y: About 300MB for the full chain.
1385 2011-06-23 13:58:28 sanity has joined
1386 2011-06-23 13:58:45 <v_y> droud: okay, thanks. how quickly is it growing?
1387 2011-06-23 14:00:51 <droud> Looks like an exponential growth pattern.
1388 2011-06-23 14:01:13 <gmaxwell> The blockchain?
1389 2011-06-23 14:01:17 <kW_> gmaxwell: well, magically, it is now getting blocks...
1390 2011-06-23 14:01:19 <droud> There is support for partial block chains, just no clients that do it yet (AFAIK).
1391 2011-06-23 14:01:24 Soak has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1392 2011-06-23 14:01:33 <droud> gmaxwell: The size of the block chain...basically transactions.
1393 2011-06-23 14:01:55 <droud> gmaxwell: Average txn per block is still like 6.2 if you count all 132K blocks.
1394 2011-06-23 14:02:08 <Optimo> gribble auth is being retarded
1395 2011-06-23 14:02:26 <gmaxwell> droud: Mm. but it's actually been smaller this week than last.
1396 2011-06-23 14:02:46 <droud> gmaxwell: Well, yeah...Mt. Gox is down.  :oP
1397 2011-06-23 14:03:20 <dinox> 7w 58
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1403 2011-06-23 14:09:05 <prof7bit> ************************
1404 2011-06-23 14:09:05 <prof7bit> UNKNOWN EXCEPTION
1405 2011-06-23 14:09:05 <prof7bit> bitcoin in CMyApp::OnUnhandledException()
1406 2011-06-23 14:09:05 <prof7bit> Segmentation fault
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1409 2011-06-23 14:09:49 <prof7bit> this happens when exiting bitcoin, maybe 30 seconds after the GUI window has closed already
1410 2011-06-23 14:10:16 <prof7bit> maybe implement some stack tacing in the unhandled exceptionhandler would be a good idea
1411 2011-06-23 14:10:46 <prof7bit> because i have no idea where this comes from
1412 2011-06-23 14:11:10 <prof7bit> happens every time
1413 2011-06-23 14:12:26 <gmaxwell> man, the amd opencl libraries are very not valgrind clean.
1414 2011-06-23 14:13:28 vragnaroda has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1417 2011-06-23 14:17:30 <vegard> they're not very clean in ANY sense :-P
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1433 2011-06-23 14:41:38 <prof7bit> when its downloading many hundredsof orphan blocks in a row for many miutes, will it store them and integrate them into the chain when the missing block finally arrives or will it simply discard them and download them again?
1434 2011-06-23 14:41:47 MetaV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1435 2011-06-23 14:43:23 <prof7bit> or is this a bug and it should not download them at all until it needs them?
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1439 2011-06-23 14:47:47 <prof7bit> also why does it sometimes say "error, already have block" very often, many in a row, why did it request these blocks in the first place?
1440 2011-06-23 14:50:14 <prof7bit> watching it download the initial block chain is really no fun. it feels really painfully difficult and not done as fast as it could be. there are long pauses where it simply does not request any new block for a long time and then the other things mentioned above all the time.
1441 2011-06-23 14:50:23 T_X1 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1442 2011-06-23 14:50:44 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: meh, openssl is the same way
1443 2011-06-23 14:52:08 Juggie has joined
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1445 2011-06-23 14:53:35 unclemantis has joined
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1447 2011-06-23 14:54:02 <unclemantis> I am trying to connect to my testnet using rest and I get this Completed 500 Internal Server Error in 60009ms
1448 2011-06-23 14:55:45 <czaanja> unclemantis: Hi, I was experiencing similar problem in twisted txjsonrpc, it looks like it is caused by communication in HTTP/1.0
1449 2011-06-23 14:57:04 <unclemantis> ok so what is the deal?
1450 2011-06-23 14:57:10 <prof7bit> i'm trying to bootstrap my client from an empty block-chain now for almost 24 hours and am still only at 115000, i guess it will need another 8 hours until it is complete. If this problem is not adressed ASAP then I guarantee the end of bitcoin in less than half a year.
1451 2011-06-23 14:57:28 <unclemantis> the daemon is up and running, the username and password is correct, it connects
1452 2011-06-23 14:58:13 <unclemantis> czaanja where you able to fix this issue?
1453 2011-06-23 14:58:37 <czaanja> unclemantis: Dont know ... im now using jsonrpc which is communicationg in HTTP/1.1 and its ok, but i will be also in need to get it in twisted so i will be trying to solve this soon
1454 2011-06-23 14:58:52 <czaanja> What libs are you using for communication?
1455 2011-06-23 14:58:58 <prof7bit> "install the client and then let it running 3 weeks in a row day and night and you are ready to use bitcoins, as easy as 1,2,3"
1456 2011-06-23 14:59:03 <unclemantis> i am using ruby gems
1457 2011-06-23 14:59:20 IncitatusOnWater has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1458 2011-06-23 14:59:43 <czaanja> Oh, sorry, im not familiar with ruby. But try to find out, if it is communicationg via HTTP/1.1
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1462 2011-06-23 15:00:16 <unclemantis> "http://#{user}:#{pass}@localhost:#{port}
1463 2011-06-23 15:00:23 <unclemantis> that is the connection string
1464 2011-06-23 15:00:32 <unclemantis> is there something else i need to lookout for?
1465 2011-06-23 15:00:36 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1466 2011-06-23 15:00:49 <czaanja> Ok, does not matter, the communication string can be fine, but its about the communication protocol
1467 2011-06-23 15:00:56 gribble has joined
1468 2011-06-23 15:00:57 <czaanja> I was stuck on this for about a week
1469 2011-06-23 15:01:10 <unclemantis> i don't have a week LOL
1470 2011-06-23 15:01:24 <czaanja> I didnt too
1471 2011-06-23 15:01:34 <unclemantis> so.. i should look at the RestClient defaults?
1472 2011-06-23 15:01:41 <czaanja> What OS are u running on the side you run bitcoind?
1473 2011-06-23 15:01:43 <unclemantis> czaanja I feel ya man
1474 2011-06-23 15:01:49 <unclemantis> ubuntu
1475 2011-06-23 15:02:53 <czaanja> Ok, just try to run wireshark and find out if it is communicationg via HTTP/1.1, if not, i am afraid its a problem and you will  need to find out some rybu libs communicating via HTTP/1.1
1476 2011-06-23 15:03:03 <unclemantis> Ubuntu 10.04.2 LTS
1477 2011-06-23 15:03:09 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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1483 2011-06-23 15:06:16 <WildSoil> is there any trade place where is no fees for withdrawing funds to euros
1484 2011-06-23 15:06:54 <unclemantis> you can try and hunt down new places that have a promotion going on. But right now nothing that i know of
1485 2011-06-23 15:07:28 <unclemantis> http://www.tradehill.com/?r=TH-R12545
1486 2011-06-23 15:07:37 <unclemantis> you could sign up with tradehill and get a discount on trading
1487 2011-06-23 15:07:42 misterpr has joined
1488 2011-06-23 15:07:47 <unclemantis> with that code i get a commission and you get a discount
1489 2011-06-23 15:07:57 <WildSoil> Tradehill do not have withdraw option in euros
1490 2011-06-23 15:08:04 <unclemantis> once you are a member you get a R code as well
1491 2011-06-23 15:08:21 <unclemantis> https://www.tradehill.com/WithdrawOverview/EUR
1492 2011-06-23 15:08:23 <unclemantis> hmmm
1493 2011-06-23 15:08:48 <unclemantis> well if you want to partner with them or tell them someone that you would be interested in using I am sure they will reward you with free withdrawals for life :)
1494 2011-06-23 15:09:02 <WildSoil> Bitcoinmarket.eu could be good place but it needs hard verify
1495 2011-06-23 15:09:16 <unclemantis> i am still waiting on emails from them
1496 2011-06-23 15:09:25 <unclemantis> they wanted a list of domain names i owned 2 weeks ago
1497 2011-06-23 15:10:07 DD- has quit ()
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1499 2011-06-23 15:16:14 <erus`> whats the best/simplest way to accept bitcoins for tokens on a website/service?
1500 2011-06-23 15:16:44 BurningToad has quit (21!~kpfile@209.12.104.142|Quit: Leaving.)
1501 2011-06-23 15:16:45 <unclemantis> erus` i am working on a solutions like that right now but first i need to get my testnet working
1502 2011-06-23 15:16:55 <unclemantis> erus` are you setting up a gaming site? sweeet
1503 2011-06-23 15:17:16 wardearia has joined
1504 2011-06-23 15:17:53 <erus`> unclemantis: slot machines
1505 2011-06-23 15:17:53 BlueMattBot has joined
1506 2011-06-23 15:18:09 <erus`> got a nice javascript front end proof of concept running
1507 2011-06-23 15:18:17 <erus`> now im writing the server in haskell
1508 2011-06-23 15:18:19 <unclemantis> mindless self indulgence :P
1509 2011-06-23 15:18:27 <unclemantis> i wish you the best of luck
1510 2011-06-23 15:19:06 <erus`> unclemantis: should i set up a wallet for each individual user? (for deposits)
1511 2011-06-23 15:19:38 <unclemantis> you could do that but how are you monitoring the token exchange?
1512 2011-06-23 15:20:03 <erus`> i was just gonna run a client on the server
1513 2011-06-23 15:20:10 <erus`> i have no idea yet though
1514 2011-06-23 15:20:45 <npouillard> erus`: are/will the haskell sources available ?
1515 2011-06-23 15:21:12 segfault64 has joined
1516 2011-06-23 15:21:31 <erus`> npouillard: i'm still deciding
1517 2011-06-23 15:22:09 <erus`> on the one hand i love open source. on the other the site will basicly be a very simple front end to a db.
1518 2011-06-23 15:22:16 <doublec> erus`: one approach would be to hold a balance in your own internal database
1519 2011-06-23 15:22:26 <vegard> can anybody explain the intuition behind the different hash types (SIGHASH_ALL, SIGHASH_NONE, SIGHASH_SINGLE, SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY)?
1520 2011-06-23 15:22:29 <doublec> erus`: when they deposit, you create an address with getnewaddress
1521 2011-06-23 15:22:40 <doublec> erus`: they send to that. You poll it for receipts. and update the internal database.
1522 2011-06-23 15:22:50 segfault64 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1523 2011-06-23 15:22:52 <npouillard> erus`: What are you building btw?
1524 2011-06-23 15:22:53 <doublec> erus`: another approach is to use the internal 'accounts' feature for the bitcoin wallet
1525 2011-06-23 15:23:01 <doublec> erus`: have an account for each user
1526 2011-06-23 15:23:14 * npouillard has an hl on haskell...
1527 2011-06-23 15:23:27 <doublec> erus`: use getaccountaddress to get an address for a user
1528 2011-06-23 15:23:35 <doublec> erus`: and use sendfrom and move to adjust balances
1529 2011-06-23 15:23:53 <erus`> ah ok. I need to read up on that
1530 2011-06-23 15:25:28 phearful has joined
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1532 2011-06-23 15:25:31 <unclemantis> move when you exchange their tokens
1533 2011-06-23 15:26:40 Ramen has joined
1534 2011-06-23 15:29:39 <emock> is there a stash or db of blocks with information like blockexplorer has?
1535 2011-06-23 15:29:59 DukeOfURL has joined
1536 2011-06-23 15:30:42 <vegard> a stash?
1537 2011-06-23 15:30:42 <unclemantis> yup
1538 2011-06-23 15:31:13 <emock> stash = file, log, database, tape, punch cards, etc.
1539 2011-06-23 15:31:18 <unclemantis> emock have you checked out the bitcoin wiki?
1540 2011-06-23 15:31:36 freakazoid has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1541 2011-06-23 15:31:36 <unclemantis> punch cards? now that would be a neat way of backing up a wallet.dat file :)
1542 2011-06-23 15:31:48 <emock> indeed it would
1543 2011-06-23 15:31:48 * unclemantis had the idea of using player piano rolls the other day
1544 2011-06-23 15:32:15 <vegard> there's .bitcoin/blkindex.dat (a berkeley db file) and .bitcoin/blkXX.dat (binary files)
1545 2011-06-23 15:32:21 <emock> unclemantis: I am aware of the wiki, and no I have not read every last thing on it
1546 2011-06-23 15:32:22 <unclemantis> put them in a FIRE AND HEAT AND AIR TIGHT container lined with lead and congreate and put inside a farad box
1547 2011-06-23 15:33:10 <emock> vegard: and the data block explorer shows is readily extractable from that?
1548 2011-06-23 15:33:41 <emock> yes, I am aware I have all the block on my HD, but thought extracting the data would be a pain
1549 2011-06-23 15:33:55 <vegard> it's extractable at least
1550 2011-06-23 15:34:08 <emock> and if there was like a big file someone had stored it would be a lot easier
1551 2011-06-23 15:34:29 <vegard> you may need a bit of code to extract addresses from scripts for example
1552 2011-06-23 15:35:54 <unclemantis> http://www.kloth.net/services/cardpunch.php
1553 2011-06-23 15:35:58 misterpr has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1554 2011-06-23 15:36:01 <unclemantis> eh eh. Emulator
1555 2011-06-23 15:36:01 <vegard> finding out whether an output has been redeemed is not trivial
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1558 2011-06-23 15:36:10 ArdaXi has joined
1559 2011-06-23 15:36:13 <emock> how many bits can you get on a card?
1560 2011-06-23 15:36:22 ArdaXi has left ()
1561 2011-06-23 15:36:33 <unclemantis> HTTP/1.0 is not the issue. i wonder what else it could be
1562 2011-06-23 15:36:35 <emock> maybe ticker-tape would be better
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1565 2011-06-23 15:37:12 <vegard> emock: you can use gavin's bitcointools (python library) to extract most of the raw data
1566 2011-06-23 15:37:28 <emock> ah, right, forgot about those...
1567 2011-06-23 15:37:49 * emock wants to pull the data into Matlab or Mathematica and have some fun studying/visualizing it
1568 2011-06-23 15:37:51 <vegard> but you still have to process it in order to obtain things like whether an output has been redeemed
1569 2011-06-23 15:38:06 <vegard> or calculate the balance of an address
1570 2011-06-23 15:38:10 <unclemantis> punchtape could be a solution too, roll it up
1571 2011-06-23 15:38:32 <emock> like a roll or 100's...
1572 2011-06-23 15:38:35 <x6763> you need to implement the scripting engine in order to tell if an output has been redeemed...the scripting engine isn't trivial, but it's not that difficult either
1573 2011-06-23 15:39:04 <emock> or, heh, when btc takes over we could just use those $100 bills as punch cards
1574 2011-06-23 15:39:37 <Optimo> ha
1575 2011-06-23 15:39:37 <unclemantis> ha ha!!!!
1576 2011-06-23 15:39:42 <emock> I'm probably not that interested in whether it was redeemed or not
1577 2011-06-23 15:40:06 <Optimo> I will try cocoacoin later
1578 2011-06-23 15:40:07 <unclemantis> czaanja 1.1 is not the issue
1579 2011-06-23 15:40:22 <emock> Optimo: thx…  let me know when you want it
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1581 2011-06-23 15:41:27 <vegard> x6763: you mostly don't need the full scripting engine. you could assume that bitcoind only saved valid blocks/transactions, right?
1582 2011-06-23 15:41:40 Nicksasa has joined
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1586 2011-06-23 15:43:00 <x6763> vegard: yeah, if you're getting the data from your own bitcoind, you can pretty much trust that it's valid...the blk0001.dat file might have blocks from side branches, though, too (i'm assuming it keeps them in there, too)
1587 2011-06-23 15:43:25 <sacarlson> vegard: I don't know of any other active scripts yet but I hope to start making some soon for escrow and poker escrow scripts
1588 2011-06-23 15:43:42 mrtnt1 has joined
1589 2011-06-23 15:43:54 <vegard> what would they do?
1590 2011-06-23 15:44:00 <gmaxwell> sacarlson: Poker escrow?
1591 2011-06-23 15:44:37 <gmaxwell> There is a nice escrow implementation: https://github.com/groffer/bitcoin/commit/83707c8dd4573bb958f9e504fb6263c8fa1ef942
1592 2011-06-23 15:44:52 <sacarlson> vegard: well the simple escrow would just be p2p escrow you send the transaction that will time out if not opened with the key on the reciever side
1593 2011-06-23 15:46:16 <sacarlson> gmaxwell: fantastic I will take a look at it tomaro
1594 2011-06-23 15:46:18 <vegard> ah
1595 2011-06-23 15:46:20 mrlocke has joined
1596 2011-06-23 15:47:02 <mrlocke> Hello ladies and gents
1597 2011-06-23 15:47:17 meelu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1598 2011-06-23 15:47:37 <sacarlson> vegard: I haven't read what this one does yet but the poker escrow would be a pooled escrow that with over 50% vote the pooled escrow goes to the winning address
1599 2011-06-23 15:48:57 <sacarlson> vegard: the votes being they publish the key that unlocks the escrow to the winner
1600 2011-06-23 15:49:04 <vegard> I see
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1605 2011-06-23 15:50:12 <emock> sacarlson: who's voting and why would they vote for someone specific?
1606 2011-06-23 15:50:22 czaanja has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1607 2011-06-23 15:50:32 <emock> okay, maybe the first question is obvious
1608 2011-06-23 15:50:43 <gmaxwell> sacarlson: this does n of m.
1609 2011-06-23 15:50:56 <sacarlson> emock:  you play poker with 4 people one wins so they three loosers publish they key to the winner or the public
1610 2011-06-23 15:50:56 BurningToad has joined
1611 2011-06-23 15:51:01 <mrlocke> Anyone here familiar enough with python based mining software (server/clients) and looking to do some paid work?
1612 2011-06-23 15:51:04 lorenzoIT has joined
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1614 2011-06-23 15:52:02 <emock> so all the players have to agree to give you the winner the money?
1615 2011-06-23 15:52:04 <sacarlson> emock:  even if one cheats and doesn't want to pay the winner still gets the pooled money
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1618 2011-06-23 15:52:21 <emock> you said /over/ 50%
1619 2011-06-23 15:52:23 <sacarlson> emock no only over 50% of them
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1621 2011-06-23 15:52:37 <sacarlson> emock well the winner gets to vote too
1622 2011-06-23 15:52:42 <gmaxwell> sacarlson: so three of four signatures.
1623 2011-06-23 15:52:44 <emock> ah, gotcha
1624 2011-06-23 15:52:51 <sacarlson> emock: I assume he will vote for him self
1625 2011-06-23 15:53:07 <gmaxwell> sacarlson: that patch can do that, it has a nice readme.
1626 2011-06-23 15:53:07 <sacarlson> gmaxwell: yes in this case
1627 2011-06-23 15:53:20 plugg36 has joined
1628 2011-06-23 15:53:22 <gmaxwell> I linked to the commit with the readme, go read the readme.
1629 2011-06-23 15:53:24 <sacarlson> gmaxwell: very cool loving it
1630 2011-06-23 15:53:46 smtmnyz has joined
1631 2011-06-23 15:53:54 <sacarlson> gmaxwell: I'm too drunk and tired now it's 10:52pm for me
1632 2011-06-23 15:54:06 <sacarlson> gmaxwell: but I bookmarked it
1633 2011-06-23 15:54:11 <emock> hmm…  assuming there's only one dishonest (or just pissed off) one in the bunch doesn't seem good
1634 2011-06-23 15:54:42 <sacarlson> emock: you can change the rules if you wish to only 2 out of 10 ?
1635 2011-06-23 15:55:06 <sacarlson> emock: remind you that 4 in this case is a small number for poker
1636 2011-06-23 15:55:09 <emock> yea…  it will at a least be a fun social experiment
1637 2011-06-23 15:55:32 <sacarlson> emock: yes and I hope to integrate it into pokerth
1638 2011-06-23 15:55:50 * emock gambles his money on btc.  
1639 2011-06-23 15:55:53 <gmaxwell> I hopy you don't crap on the blockchain with single poker games :-/
1640 2011-06-23 15:56:33 <sacarlson> emock: we don't need to use money in this game we could use weeds or other currency just to keep score
1641 2011-06-23 15:56:45 FellowTraveler has joined
1642 2011-06-23 15:57:03 <gmaxwell> The world doesn't really need to spend 24 gigabytes storing every hand of poker you play.
1643 2011-06-23 15:57:13 <emock> hmm, what country refers to it as 'weeds' and not 'weed'
1644 2011-06-23 15:57:13 <erus`> or does it?
1645 2011-06-23 15:57:26 <emock> Aussie?
1646 2011-06-23 15:57:26 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1647 2011-06-23 15:57:45 <luke-jr> emock: weeds are an alternate block chain
1648 2011-06-23 15:57:50 pusle has joined
1649 2011-06-23 15:57:55 <luke-jr> like carrots or namecoins
1650 2011-06-23 15:58:11 <sacarlson> emock: or beertokens http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9493.msg138247#msg138247
1651 2011-06-23 15:58:12 <emock> ah, should have figured
1652 2011-06-23 15:58:42 <emock> btw:  shitcoin.com is still available...
1653 2011-06-23 15:58:47 <luke-jr> lol
1654 2011-06-23 15:59:26 <emock> reminds me of Carlin's bit on 'taking a shit'…  "Please don't take one of mine.  I've only got three left and the weekend's coming up."
1655 2011-06-23 15:59:52 nanook7 has joined
1656 2011-06-23 16:00:09 <luke-jr> some idiot wrote up a negative review of bitcoin
1657 2011-06-23 16:00:21 <luke-jr> http://lewrockwell.com/casey/casey89.1.html
1658 2011-06-23 16:00:25 <luke-jr> it's so obviously an ad
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1662 2011-06-23 16:02:00 <coderrr> when you send from address X to Y and change is returnd to your new address Z, it'd be possible for the bitcoin client to send the change right back to X instead of Z correct?
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1667 2011-06-23 16:02:57 <luke-jr> coderrr: yes
1668 2011-06-23 16:02:58 <gmaxwell> coderrr: sure, it would give you reduced privacy, since it would be obvious what part was change and what part was payment.
1669 2011-06-23 16:03:03 pyros1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1670 2011-06-23 16:03:07 Kiba` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1671 2011-06-23 16:03:10 <coderrr> thanks
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1673 2011-06-23 16:03:17 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: but it would make for better backups
1674 2011-06-23 16:03:22 <coderrr> yep
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1679 2011-06-23 16:03:30 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: determinstic wallets would make for better backups
1680 2011-06-23 16:03:36 <luke-jr> true
1681 2011-06-23 16:03:40 <wump> for better backups you  could also simply reuse the same 100 addresses every time
1682 2011-06-23 16:03:41 Kiba` has joined
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1684 2011-06-23 16:03:50 <wump> or 1000 addresses.. whatever
1685 2011-06-23 16:03:51 <coderrr> deterministic wallets ?
1686 2011-06-23 16:03:52 <gmaxwell> wump: that would also suck for privacy.
1687 2011-06-23 16:04:03 <wump> yes but would suck less than sending it directly back
1688 2011-06-23 16:04:10 <gmaxwell> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=19137.0
1689 2011-06-23 16:04:42 <gmaxwell> wump: not really, they'd fairly quickly become connected in joint spends and would clearly all belong to once person.
1690 2011-06-23 16:04:43 <coderrr> oh like just store a rand seed ?
1691 2011-06-23 16:04:46 Kiba` is now known as kiba`
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1693 2011-06-23 16:04:55 <wump> gmaxwell: only if you do a lot of transactions
1694 2011-06-23 16:05:26 kiba` is now known as kiba
1695 2011-06-23 16:06:58 <wump> but  I don't disagree that the deterministic wallet idea is even better
1696 2011-06-23 16:07:09 <gmaxwell> wump: er, not really. They'll tend to become linked exponentially fast because the input selection tries to use small inputs so it will frequently span multiple addresses.
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1698 2011-06-23 16:09:26 <wump> gmaxwell: yes that's true, but still it's less obvious than if you send it directly back to the original address, which was my point
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1708 2011-06-23 16:19:13 <sipa> anyone want to verify that https://github.com/jaromil/bitcoin/commits/autotools3 builds on non-Ubuntu systems?
1709 2011-06-23 16:19:54 * picci selling domains botcoin.com .net .org @1btc/domain if anyone is interested pm me
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1726 2011-06-23 16:32:14 <unclemantis> well i found that my client is connecting to the testnet
1727 2011-06-23 16:33:05 <unclemantis> I am getting this in my debug.log file 'accepted connection\n\n\nPROCESSMESSAGE MESSAGESTART NOT FOUND\n\nsocket closed\ndisconnecting node'
1728 2011-06-23 16:33:26 <vragnaroda> any osx developers around?
1729 2011-06-23 16:33:30 <unclemantis> my client is telling me Completed 500 Internal Server Error in 60062ms AKA Request Timedout
1730 2011-06-23 16:35:26 cenuij has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1734 2011-06-23 16:39:32 <unclemantis> sigh
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1745 2011-06-23 16:49:48 sanity has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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1748 2011-06-23 16:52:29 <Wuked> ;;bc,prob 2 * 1024 * 1024
1749 2011-06-23 16:52:32 <gribble> Error: There's really no reason why you should have underscores or brackets in your mathematical expression.  Please remove them.
1750 2011-06-23 16:53:24 <viggi> lol
1751 2011-06-23 16:54:48 <emock> scolded
1752 2011-06-23 16:55:33 <phantomcircuit> wat
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1765 2011-06-23 17:07:19 <Optimo> I've not been able to auth using gribble today (not that I'm missing much in -otc)
1766 2011-06-23 17:07:32 <Optimo> it seems to jsut be broken on the verify sttep
1767 2011-06-23 17:07:50 viggi has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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1770 2011-06-23 17:11:20 <emock> Optimo: you sure you've not been banned?
1771 2011-06-23 17:12:03 zooko has joined
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1773 2011-06-23 17:12:35 <Optimo> the bot is giving a specific error. a channel ban would be unrelated .. I think
1774 2011-06-23 17:12:59 <Optimo> it's not finding the challenge string in my hash
1775 2011-06-23 17:13:06 <Optimo> but I been doing this the same way for a month
1776 2011-06-23 17:13:26 <emock> ban was a joke…  but I suppose possible
1777 2011-06-23 17:13:27 Storagewars has joined
1778 2011-06-23 17:14:05 <emock> let me try on the 'top
1779 2011-06-23 17:14:44 <Optimo> I was doing ;;auth and ;;verify - simple enough
1780 2011-06-23 17:15:01 ericmock has joined
1781 2011-06-23 17:15:09 <Optimo> some had suggested eauth was better route
1782 2011-06-23 17:16:39 picci has quit (Changing host)
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1787 2011-06-23 17:18:19 <gmaxwell> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_rules#block_messages  #13 is pedantically incorrect
1788 2011-06-23 17:18:22 <gmaxwell>     if (GetBlockTime() <= pindexPrev->GetMedianTimePast())
1789 2011-06-23 17:18:25 <gmaxwell>         return error("AcceptBlock() : block's timestamp is too early");
1790 2011-06-23 17:18:32 <gmaxwell> but the page is protected so I can't fix it.
1791 2011-06-23 17:18:39 <Happy0> :o
1792 2011-06-23 17:19:00 <ericmock> Optimo: looks like I got in but still no able to join bitcoin-otc
1793 2011-06-23 17:19:24 jimpsson has joined
1794 2011-06-23 17:20:00 erus` has joined
1795 2011-06-23 17:20:46 <erus`> has anyone set up a payment receipt system yet? (with the ability to match a payment to a user)
1796 2011-06-23 17:21:31 <upb> hmm how can i check out the autotools3 branch from github to test it ?:P
1797 2011-06-23 17:21:32 <pierce> erus`: I don't think bitcoin has the concept of "users"
1798 2011-06-23 17:21:56 <gmaxwell> erus`: er, well every bitcoin ecommerce site, exchange, etc matches payments with accounts on the site.
1799 2011-06-23 17:21:56 <erus`> pierce i mean matching a payment to a user on your site/system
1800 2011-06-23 17:22:12 <ericmock> hmm...  I can't seem to join bitcoin-otc although I got the invite from gribble.  Seems more like my irc client can't connect.
1801 2011-06-23 17:22:51 <erus`> gmaxwell: how do they do it? a different wallet for each user?
1802 2011-06-23 17:22:55 <gmaxwell> erus`: the way you do it is you generate a one shot address for the payment, and then you know any payment to that address is for the user you gave the address to.
1803 2011-06-23 17:22:56 Joozero has joined
1804 2011-06-23 17:23:02 <pierce> erus`: ya, any given site should have a transaction history, just stored in their database
1805 2011-06-23 17:23:06 Joozero has left ()
1806 2011-06-23 17:23:47 <gmaxwell> (and then you just query getreceivedbyaddress )
1807 2011-06-23 17:24:45 <erus`> gmaxwell: is the bitcoin client also a library aswel?
1808 2011-06-23 17:24:53 TD has joined
1809 2011-06-23 17:25:08 <gmaxwell> erus`: it's also a daemon which presents a json-rpc interface that you can talk to.
1810 2011-06-23 17:25:25 <erus`> ah thats easy :)
1811 2011-06-23 17:25:54 <erus`> just find the api docs then...
1812 2011-06-23 17:26:28 <gmaxwell> The api is the same as the cli interface... which is just a thin wrapper on the API.
1813 2011-06-23 17:27:50 b1U\-\a10 has joined
1814 2011-06-23 17:28:18 <b1U\-\a10> hey can someone help me understand demystify the algorythym
1815 2011-06-23 17:28:24 <b1U\-\a10> please and thank you
1816 2011-06-23 17:28:28 gasteve has joined
1817 2011-06-23 17:28:34 <b1U\-\a10> I'm not good enough in C yet
1818 2011-06-23 17:28:56 <erus`> b1U\-\a10: which algo?
1819 2011-06-23 17:28:59 koleg has joined
1820 2011-06-23 17:29:48 <erus`> gmaxwell: the cli interface to bitcoin or bitcoind or something else?
1821 2011-06-23 17:30:02 <b1U\-\a10> the p2p network part
1822 2011-06-23 17:30:13 <b1U\-\a10> how does it find other clients
1823 2011-06-23 17:30:16 <b1U\-\a10> ??
1824 2011-06-23 17:30:18 Stellar has joined
1825 2011-06-23 17:30:26 <gmaxwell> erus`: bitcoind... once its running, running bitcoind help will give you the api help (you'll have to set a rpcuser and rpcpassword in the config.
1826 2011-06-23 17:30:35 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: learns about it from other clients mostly.
1827 2011-06-23 17:30:37 <b1U\-\a10> I have someone who would like to invest and I need to explain why it's secure
1828 2011-06-23 17:30:46 <b1U\-\a10> so how do they connect?
1829 2011-06-23 17:30:56 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: the security doesn't depend on finding clients or who you connect with.
1830 2011-06-23 17:31:16 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: bitcoin doesn't use client voting or client trust because these are very vulnerable to sybil attack.
1831 2011-06-23 17:31:32 <b1U\-\a10> so what's it use?
1832 2011-06-23 17:31:47 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: I recommend reading the initial bitcoin paper, http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
1833 2011-06-23 17:31:49 picci has left ()
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1836 2011-06-23 17:32:52 <gmaxwell> All the security comes from the nakamoto hash chain, which is the core innovation which makes bitcoin possible.
1837 2011-06-23 17:33:05 gasteve has quit (Client Quit)
1838 2011-06-23 17:33:36 <b1U\-\a10> yeah, but what points to other clients, in the code?
1839 2011-06-23 17:34:09 <b1U\-\a10> I'm looling at the code now and I can't find it.
1840 2011-06-23 17:34:14 <pierce> b1U\-\a10: it's strange :-)
1841 2011-06-23 17:34:15 <gmaxwell> As far as the p2p goes though, clients find initial peers via IRC, from DNS, manually configured, or failing all that there are some hard coded ones. As soon as it connects to the initial ones it asks them about more, and then it connects to them and asks them about more and so on.
1842 2011-06-23 17:34:27 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: But this has very little to do with the security.
1843 2011-06-23 17:34:52 <gmaxwell> Evil peers can DOS attack you  (by feeding you no data and droping data you feed them) but not much else.
1844 2011-06-23 17:34:55 <b1U\-\a10> why's that, because of the keys?
1845 2011-06-23 17:35:07 arima has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1848 2011-06-23 17:35:49 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: Because of the hash chain.
1849 2011-06-23 17:36:05 <b1U\-\a10> ahhh
1850 2011-06-23 17:36:28 <b1U\-\a10> so how does it know how to identify like minded peers?
1851 2011-06-23 17:36:55 <pierce> b1U\-\a10: the p2p deployment isn't super fancy, so it's not extremely robust against DoS, but even if you connect to some pretty malicious nodes, they should not be able to take your money etc
1852 2011-06-23 17:36:55 <b1U\-\a10> there is an IRC channel?
1853 2011-06-23 17:37:12 <ericmock> okay...  which one of you wants to help me setup a pay-to-play minecraft server with a world where people can find/mine bitcoin?
1854 2011-06-23 17:37:15 <b1U\-\a10> well, they'll just keep your from generating, right?
1855 2011-06-23 17:37:25 <pierce> b1U\-\a10: yes, the bitcoin client, by default, joins an irc channel and asks around for good nodes to connect to
1856 2011-06-23 17:37:38 <b1U\-\a10> hmm.
1857 2011-06-23 17:38:33 arima has joined
1858 2011-06-23 17:38:49 <gmaxwell> Well it doesn't ask. It just sits there and looks at who is in the channel.
1859 2011-06-23 17:38:50 <gmaxwell> :)
1860 2011-06-23 17:38:55 <gmaxwell> (and who joins)
1861 2011-06-23 17:39:00 <pierce> b1U\-\a10: ya, strange :-)  there are others working on node management and transport over freenet and other protocols to make it more robust against DoS
1862 2011-06-23 17:39:16 <pierce> gmaxwell: /whois counts as asking :-)
1863 2011-06-23 17:39:30 <b1U\-\a10> I see.
1864 2011-06-23 17:39:39 <gmaxwell> It /who's the channel but doesn't actually query any users.
1865 2011-06-23 17:39:45 <b1U\-\a10> I must tell you we have a problem.
1866 2011-06-23 17:39:53 <freakazoid> bitcoin over freenet, gnunet, i2p, and/or TOR would be awesome
1867 2011-06-23 17:40:04 <b1U\-\a10> can that work?
1868 2011-06-23 17:40:11 <pierce> ya, no problem
1869 2011-06-23 17:40:14 <gmaxwell> People already use it via tor today.
1870 2011-06-23 17:40:15 <b1U\-\a10> that would make us more anon, right?
1871 2011-06-23 17:40:17 <pierce> there are bounties out for that right now
1872 2011-06-23 17:40:18 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: what problem?
1873 2011-06-23 17:40:33 <b1U\-\a10> people want to take bitcoin down BAD
1874 2011-06-23 17:40:34 <freakazoid> gmaxwell: I mean using it as specific infrastructure for peer discovery, though I'm not sure how you would with TOR
1875 2011-06-23 17:40:41 <freakazoid> oh god
1876 2011-06-23 17:40:43 <b1U\-\a10> I work in the financial industry
1877 2011-06-23 17:40:47 <b1U\-\a10> I'm not fucking kidding
1878 2011-06-23 17:41:11 <pierce> b1U\-\a10: it would be fun to see them try :-)
1879 2011-06-23 17:41:22 <b1U\-\a10> they have a plan
1880 2011-06-23 17:41:24 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: If you're aware of people who are interested in commiting crimes, and attack the bitcoin infrastructure I'd be glad to help put you in touch with the FBI.
1881 2011-06-23 17:41:36 <b1U\-\a10> there are no crimes.
1882 2011-06-23 17:41:42 <b1U\-\a10> involved in the plan.
1883 2011-06-23 17:41:53 <b1U\-\a10> it's actually brilliant.
1884 2011-06-23 17:41:59 <b1U\-\a10> it will work.
1885 2011-06-23 17:42:01 <vegard> bitcoin or the plan? :-P
1886 2011-06-23 17:42:08 <b1U\-\a10> the plan.
1887 2011-06-23 17:42:13 kish has joined
1888 2011-06-23 17:42:16 <b1U\-\a10> the only way is for us to beat them to the punch.
1889 2011-06-23 17:42:32 <freakazoid> oh god
1890 2011-06-23 17:42:34 <b1U\-\a10> I'm telling you it will work.
1891 2011-06-23 17:42:42 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: Morover, I and a lot of other people depend on the infrastcture, and someone maliciously attacking it _will_ find themselves in civil court (meanwhile, of course, techincal measures will be deployed to moot the attack, of course)
1892 2011-06-23 17:42:43 <b1U\-\a10> It's diabolical.
1893 2011-06-23 17:42:47 <freakazoid> Tell us the plan.
1894 2011-06-23 17:42:50 <freakazoid> Or shut up.
1895 2011-06-23 17:42:50 <vegard> what's the plan, then?
1896 2011-06-23 17:42:55 <pierce> ooo /anxious
1897 2011-06-23 17:43:25 <b1U\-\a10> well, I figured I would impliment the counterstrike myself to protect my own coins.
1898 2011-06-23 17:43:32 <erus`> gmaxwell: so you think i should make a new address for each payment? then remove when finished with?
1899 2011-06-23 17:43:33 <b1U\-\a10> but I'm not good enough with C.
1900 2011-06-23 17:43:41 <go1dfish> b1U\-\a10: and whats this plan?
1901 2011-06-23 17:43:49 <coderrr> is the bitcoin client build procedure documented anywhere for each OS ?
1902 2011-06-23 17:43:55 <gmaxwell> There isn't any attack a third party can do to take your coins.
1903 2011-06-23 17:44:09 <b1U\-\a10> it's way way smarter than that.
1904 2011-06-23 17:44:12 <AlonzoTG> build procedure: Hahahahahahahha.
1905 2011-06-23 17:44:16 <b1U\-\a10> They are planning to clone the shit out of it.
1906 2011-06-23 17:44:24 <b1U\-\a10> ATTACK of the CLONES
1907 2011-06-23 17:44:31 <erus`> coderrr: theres makefiles in the dir
1908 2011-06-23 17:44:46 <AlonzoTG> The current code base is crap; I've read it.
1909 2011-06-23 17:44:47 <freakazoid> b1U\-\a10: you mean create a bunch of other block chains?
1910 2011-06-23 17:44:58 <coderrr> erus`, yea but i mean like, exact versions of dependencies and such
1911 2011-06-23 17:45:11 <b1U\-\a10> I am setting up two websites.
1912 2011-06-23 17:45:21 <coderrr> i had to comment out some upnp line because it didnt have the right # of arguemnts, ig uess i got the wrong ver of miniupnpc or something
1913 2011-06-23 17:45:21 <b1U\-\a10> but I need help guys.
1914 2011-06-23 17:45:32 <vegard> and what's the point of the clones?
1915 2011-06-23 17:45:32 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: Clone the shit out of what?
1916 2011-06-23 17:45:39 <go1dfish> AlonzoTG: agreed, im considering writing a python implementation
1917 2011-06-23 17:45:42 kish_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1918 2011-06-23 17:45:48 <go1dfish> b1U\-\a10: websites for what?
1919 2011-06-23 17:45:50 <b1U\-\a10> can you code in C or not.
1920 2011-06-23 17:45:56 <gmaxwell> And who is planning on doing this?
1921 2011-06-23 17:46:00 <b1U\-\a10> I need a C hacker to make the counter strike.
1922 2011-06-23 17:46:08 * pierce injects tranquilizer into b1U\-
10
1923 2011-06-23 17:46:10 <AlonzoTG> I'm starting work on an Ada implementation of the demon.
1924 2011-06-23 17:46:12 <b1U\-\a10> big time assholes man
1925 2011-06-23 17:46:14 <go1dfish> why do you want to build a site in C?
1926 2011-06-23 17:46:37 <freakazoid> this is very vague
1927 2011-06-23 17:46:40 <b1U\-\a10> I will tell you what needs to happen if you want bitcoin to live.
1928 2011-06-23 17:46:45 <b1U\-\a10> precisely.
1929 2011-06-23 17:46:48 <pierce> *from the future*
1930 2011-06-23 17:46:51 <b1U\-\a10> I'm writing a position paper now.
1931 2011-06-23 17:46:51 <freakazoid> "the financial industry" has "a plan" to "clone the shit out of it"
1932 2011-06-23 17:47:02 <freakazoid> "follow me if you want to live"
1933 2011-06-23 17:47:08 <freakazoid> this is such bullshit.
1934 2011-06-23 17:47:17 <gmaxwell> I just want to know who, I'll have a certified letter from my attorney out in two hours which will make them stop cold.
1935 2011-06-23 17:47:20 <b1U\-\a10> okay, I'm out.
1936 2011-06-23 17:47:27 traviscj_ has joined
1937 2011-06-23 17:47:27 <TecnoBrat> rofl
1938 2011-06-23 17:47:36 <TecnoBrat> b1U\-\a10: nice try troll.
1939 2011-06-23 17:47:40 <go1dfish> I will say, that I've been surprised at how quickly knowledge of bitcoin at least, has spread to non-geeks  including players in the financial industry
1940 2011-06-23 17:47:40 <freakazoid> b1U\-\a10 will save us!
1941 2011-06-23 17:47:44 <freakazoid> from "them"!
1942 2011-06-23 17:47:49 <b1U\-\a10> Here is what they are going to do.
1943 2011-06-23 17:47:51 <go1dfish> but yeah b1U\-\a10 sounds like a troll
1944 2011-06-23 17:47:58 <TecnoBrat> we all know the problem with 50% hash power
1945 2011-06-23 17:47:59 <freakazoid> go write a blog post and link us to it, b1U\-\a10
1946 2011-06-23 17:48:00 <emock> just got a "socket send error 32"
1947 2011-06-23 17:48:01 <gmaxwell> well hush and let him talk.
1948 2011-06-23 17:48:08 <b1U\-\a10> Doing it now.
1949 2011-06-23 17:48:13 <b1U\-\a10> how can I stay anon.
1950 2011-06-23 17:48:15 <b1U\-\a10> ??
1951 2011-06-23 17:48:21 <b1U\-\a10> If I register a domain?
1952 2011-06-23 17:48:24 <b1U\-\a10> I must know.
1953 2011-06-23 17:48:32 <go1dfish> reggister a dot-bit.org domain
1954 2011-06-23 17:48:32 <b1U\-\a10> We are talking about rish assholes here.
1955 2011-06-23 17:48:47 traviscj_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1956 2011-06-23 17:48:49 <Ramen> go mine on namecoins
1957 2011-06-23 17:48:53 <Ramen> and get a domain
1958 2011-06-23 17:49:01 <b1U\-\a10> what's the worst they can do to me?
1959 2011-06-23 17:49:04 <freakazoid> b1U\-\a10: just creat a tumblr
1960 2011-06-23 17:49:06 <gmaxwell> Yes, rich assholes are the (only) sort of people who are optimally defeated by legal nastygrams, this is why I'm asking who you're talking about.
1961 2011-06-23 17:49:18 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1962 2011-06-23 17:49:33 <b1U\-\a10> there is absolutely nothing illegal about their proposed plan.
1963 2011-06-23 17:49:51 <pierce> b1U\-\a10: everything is illegal if you have a good lawyer
1964 2011-06-23 17:49:57 <b1U\-\a10> We need to move FAST
1965 2011-06-23 17:50:01 <gmaxwell> If it causes me economic harm it's a tort and I will recover substantial damages.
1966 2011-06-23 17:50:05 <b1U\-\a10> they can afford way more lawer than you pal.
1967 2011-06-23 17:50:08 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1968 2011-06-23 17:50:10 <b1U\-\a10> trust me on this.
1969 2011-06-23 17:50:16 <go1dfish> b1U\-\a10: then you better hurry up and tell us what we're running against and stop trolling
1970 2011-06-23 17:50:27 <erus`> how do i delete an account from my address book in bitcoind?
1971 2011-06-23 17:50:33 <b1U\-\a10> I will tell you how to beat them
1972 2011-06-23 17:50:33 <b1U\-\a10> if you will hear me out.
1973 2011-06-23 17:50:52 arima has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1974 2011-06-23 17:50:57 <gmaxwell> Well just describe what you're going to describe.
1975 2011-06-23 17:51:01 <vegard> I still don't understand what the clones are supposed to do
1976 2011-06-23 17:51:13 <b1U\-\a10> We can take this source code.
1977 2011-06-23 17:51:17 <pierce> vegard: they will attack of course
1978 2011-06-23 17:51:32 <egecko> erus - you cant
1979 2011-06-23 17:51:33 <b1U\-\a10> don't you get it.
1980 2011-06-23 17:51:43 <b1U\-\a10> study the substitution effect in economics.
1981 2011-06-23 17:51:44 <go1dfish> You can take the source code? is that all?
1982 2011-06-23 17:51:46 <vegard> pierce: attack how?
1983 2011-06-23 17:51:51 <erus`> egecko: wdf?
1984 2011-06-23 17:51:52 <b1U\-\a10> not the coins.
1985 2011-06-23 17:51:56 <freakazoid> b1U\-\a10: blog post, or STFU
1986 2011-06-23 17:52:05 <gmaxwell> Or just use a pastebin.
1987 2011-06-23 17:52:12 <freakazoid> gmaxwell+
1988 2011-06-23 17:52:15 <freakazoid> gmaxwell++
1989 2011-06-23 17:52:15 <b1U\-\a10> the network
1990 2011-06-23 17:52:15 <b1U\-\a10> they want to clone the p2p network
1991 2011-06-23 17:52:15 <b1U\-\a10> create an alternate
1992 2011-06-23 17:52:21 <go1dfish> yes, your more than welcome to fork bitcoin, and I think you'd find that a lot of people in th ebitcoin community would even encourage that
1993 2011-06-23 17:52:22 <gmaxwell> Make a procedural description of what they will do first, and then if you like say what you think will fix it.
1994 2011-06-23 17:52:24 <b1U\-\a10> look.
1995 2011-06-23 17:52:24 <freakazoid> we already know about that attack
1996 2011-06-23 17:52:35 <go1dfish> but if and only if the software remained open source and the financials fixed/known
1997 2011-06-23 17:52:43 <gmaxwell> And what will this clone of the p2p network do?
1998 2011-06-23 17:52:44 <b1U\-\a10> we should do it twice
1999 2011-06-23 17:52:45 <b1U\-\a10> RIGHT NOW
2000 2011-06-23 17:53:02 <b1U\-\a10> before they do.
2001 2011-06-23 17:53:04 <freakazoid> you're about ten seconds from /ignore
2002 2011-06-23 17:53:07 <go1dfish> b1U\-\a10: already done
2003 2011-06-23 17:53:09 <b1U\-\a10> it will cause people to prefer mining on the new alternate network
2004 2011-06-23 17:53:14 <egecko> b1U\-\a10 - what should we do right now and why?
2005 2011-06-23 17:53:14 <go1dfish> and I already linked you to it
2006 2011-06-23 17:53:15 <freakazoid> the next thing out of your mouth should be the URL for a complete description of the attack
2007 2011-06-23 17:53:18 <upb> sipa: shouldnt configure check for all dependencies? it doesnt check for bdb
2008 2011-06-23 17:53:28 <go1dfish> http://dot-bit.org  namecoin is a fork of the bitcoin code and blockchain
2009 2011-06-23 17:53:31 <vegard> if they create a clone, what harm or good will it do? it doesn't really matter if we use bitcoin or their clone -- they still lose in the end
2010 2011-06-23 17:53:37 <go1dfish> which has the additional benefit of behaving as a domain name registry
2011 2011-06-23 17:54:01 <b1U\-\a10> yes, but if we beat them and make it look like it's our idea
2012 2011-06-23 17:54:17 <b1U\-\a10> we will have won the psychological battle.
2013 2011-06-23 17:54:31 <b1U\-\a10> I
2014 2011-06-23 17:54:37 <freakazoid> Ok, I'm done with this bozo.
2015 2011-06-23 17:54:45 <egecko> "make it look like it's our idea".. sounds like someone's trying to mine fame instead of bitcoins
2016 2011-06-23 17:54:48 nefario has joined
2017 2011-06-23 17:54:48 <b1U\-\a10> I just want to do it myself.
2018 2011-06-23 17:54:51 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: You're still being very vague about precisely what will be done. Since you clearly don't understand how bitcoin works as well as someone of the other people here you should stick you what you believe people will do and worry about the solutions later.
2019 2011-06-23 17:54:54 <b1U\-\a10> can you help me fork it or not.
2020 2011-06-23 17:54:54 <freakazoid> If he posts the URL, please repaste it so I can see it because I have him on ignore.
2021 2011-06-23 17:55:10 <b1U\-\a10> okay.
2022 2011-06-23 17:55:15 <b1U\-\a10> I'll have the website up in a bit.
2023 2011-06-23 17:55:19 <go1dfish> b1U\-\a10: exactly what gmaxwell said
2024 2011-06-23 17:55:22 <picci> lol freakazoid
2025 2011-06-23 17:55:23 * egecko checks his pockets.. hmm.. a spoon, no forks tho..
2026 2011-06-23 17:55:32 <go1dfish> you have demonstrated you don't have a strong understanding of what bitcoin actually is
2027 2011-06-23 17:55:44 <b1U\-\a10> Are you kidding me.
2028 2011-06-23 17:55:47 <picci> ;;ident b1U\-\a10
2029 2011-06-23 17:55:47 <gribble> Nick 'b1U\-\a10', with hostmask 'b1U\-\a10!~quassel@c-24-147-80-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net', is not identified.
2030 2011-06-23 17:56:03 <go1dfish> so your only benefit to this channel is in your claims that you have an understanding of some sort of planned side-channel competitive attack
2031 2011-06-23 17:56:04 <egecko> b1u - what is this attack you keep talking about?
2032 2011-06-23 17:56:09 <b1U\-\a10> it's not my IP, nice try
2033 2011-06-23 17:56:24 <b1U\-\a10> I'm going to leave if you can't help me fork it.
2034 2011-06-23 17:56:27 <picci> b1U\-\a10: just checking if you were idnt
2035 2011-06-23 17:56:27 <b1U\-\a10> TWICE
2036 2011-06-23 17:56:35 <picci> leave.
2037 2011-06-23 17:56:37 <picci> bye
2038 2011-06-23 17:56:41 b1U\-\a10 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2039 2011-06-23 17:56:44 <egecko> lol
2040 2011-06-23 17:56:51 <egecko> wth was that all about?
2041 2011-06-23 17:56:56 <pierce> oh no, they got to him!
2042 2011-06-23 17:57:01 <go1dfish> lol
2043 2011-06-23 17:57:05 <picci> freakazoid: you can come back from afk now :)
2044 2011-06-23 17:57:07 <egecko> he thinks he can get together enough computing power to overtake the bitcoin chain?
2045 2011-06-23 17:57:17 <picci> no, he just wanted to fork it
2046 2011-06-23 17:57:28 <egecko> so exactly what would that do?
2047 2011-06-23 17:57:34 <picci> and build his own bitsomething
2048 2011-06-23 17:57:43 <egecko> other than create a private currency that he cant exchange with anyone
2049 2011-06-23 17:57:50 <picci> well, that's the idea.
2050 2011-06-23 17:57:54 <freakazoid> picci: what?
2051 2011-06-23 17:57:57 <go1dfish> if you want to ascribe any credibility to him, I think he was trying to say that some strong financial interests were planning to fork the project and create an alternate
2052 2011-06-23 17:58:05 <vegard> picci: I thought that was the "evil plan" that he was trying to defend against?
2053 2011-06-23 17:58:18 <picci> freakazoid: nothing, mr.I_want_a_new_currency_with_my_name_on_it left
2054 2011-06-23 17:58:21 <pierce> go1dfish: sounds like good news to me
2055 2011-06-23 17:58:27 <egecko> golfish - i dont doubt there are deep pockets w/ intents to do that.. say goldman sachs and jp morgan
2056 2011-06-23 17:58:33 <picci> vegard: he was trying to make it...
2057 2011-06-23 17:58:42 <go1dfish> pierce: agreed
2058 2011-06-23 17:58:47 <go1dfish> free legitimacy \*/
2059 2011-06-23 17:58:50 <pierce> if a bank popped up that allowed signed transactions over the internet like that, I would switch to them in an instant
2060 2011-06-23 17:58:59 <freakazoid> picci: Oh, I didn't leave, I just had him on ignore
2061 2011-06-23 17:59:02 <egecko> that that's not like some kind of secret information
2062 2011-06-23 17:59:08 <erska> he wanted to create TWO forks for some reason, but it didn't quite become clear why
2063 2011-06-23 17:59:19 <freakazoid> because he's dumb
2064 2011-06-23 17:59:21 <go1dfish> not only that, it would make getting 'real currency' into exchanges that much easier
2065 2011-06-23 17:59:32 <pierce> erska: I think one was a decoy
2066 2011-06-23 17:59:38 <pierce> erska: always make a decoy
2067 2011-06-23 17:59:59 <vegard> just like the testnet! ;)
2068 2011-06-23 18:00:14 <gmaxwell> "Well, fuck it. We're going to five blades^Wforks."
2069 2011-06-23 18:00:34 <freakazoid> He was really a spy from "the financial industry" trying to get us to destroy bitcoin ourselves.
2070 2011-06-23 18:00:45 <freakazoid> He admitted to working for "them"
2071 2011-06-23 18:00:59 <gmaxwell> Man, if thats the best they can come up with then bitcoin has nothing to fear.
2072 2011-06-23 18:01:20 Maged has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
2073 2011-06-23 18:01:31 * emock goes to start the shitcoin economy
2074 2011-06-23 18:01:36 <TD> pierce: signed transactions like what?
2075 2011-06-23 18:01:43 <vegard> the biggest threat right now seems to be the law-makers outlawing the use of bitcoin, isn't it?
2076 2011-06-23 18:01:57 arima has joined
2077 2011-06-23 18:02:02 <freakazoid> vegard: no, the biggest threat is that it simply won't work
2078 2011-06-23 18:02:03 <egecko> they outlawed smoking weed, but peple still do ;)
2079 2011-06-23 18:02:12 <freakazoid> that it will never become popular, because nobody will give a shit
2080 2011-06-23 18:02:18 <gmaxwell> I except big names like that to attack via lobbyist and marketing firms, and if there were a technical attack it'll be double laundered through Ukrainian hackers, and we wont have mouth foamers on IRC warning us about it.
2081 2011-06-23 18:02:29 <freakazoid> and therefore it will be marginalized, used only by crazy liberweirdos and drug dealers
2082 2011-06-23 18:02:34 <emock> so, now that that fella is gone, any idea why I might get a "socket send error 32"?
2083 2011-06-23 18:02:38 <gmaxwell> freakazoid is correct.
2084 2011-06-23 18:02:39 crocopod has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2085 2011-06-23 18:03:11 <egecko> freakazoid - i dont think thats the case.. the lower income chinese are adpoting it as their underground currency since the yuan isnt being allowed to appreciate :)
2086 2011-06-23 18:03:29 <freakazoid> I think the saddest thing would be for bitcoin to fail for its own reasons and to have us blaming other people rather than looking at our own flaws
2087 2011-06-23 18:03:32 <gmaxwell> emock: I think 32 is broken pipe, and you'll get it if you send but the other side has hung up.
2088 2011-06-23 18:03:38 <freakazoid> egecko: reference?
2089 2011-06-23 18:03:43 BitcoinForNewegg has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2090 2011-06-23 18:03:48 <emock> yea, it is a broken pipe...
2091 2011-06-23 18:03:49 <gmaxwell> emock: so if you're seeing that to a newly connected node— that just means that its broken or not bitcoin.
2092 2011-06-23 18:03:49 <freakazoid> egecko: I would believe it since they're using QQ coin as well
2093 2011-06-23 18:04:04 <Cryo> http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/bcLRUSD.html wtf
2094 2011-06-23 18:04:12 <vegard> somebody should sneak in and change that to "broken tube" ;)
2095 2011-06-23 18:04:13 VastLite has quit (Quit: VastLite)
2096 2011-06-23 18:04:22 <egecko> freakazoid: one sec, lemme dig up the forum post on bitcoin.org.. a fellow named BlueSky posted it
2097 2011-06-23 18:04:26 <gmaxwell> freakazoid: there have certantly been things that left me saying "fuck, bitcoin is going to fail because its users are idiots"
2098 2011-06-23 18:04:29 <emock> gmaxwell: so how do I prevent the client from coughing up a SIGPIPE and dying when that happens?
2099 2011-06-23 18:04:45 BitcoinForNewegg has joined
2100 2011-06-23 18:05:32 <freakazoid> egecko: That may not count as a reference :)
2101 2011-06-23 18:05:37 <freakazoid> egecko: I'm very skeptical about anything I want to believe.
2102 2011-06-23 18:06:15 <egecko> freakazoid: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=44.0
2103 2011-06-23 18:07:01 <egecko> i hear ya on that.. mankind's greatest weakness appears to be laziness or unwillingness in adopting things that benefit them the most
2104 2011-06-23 18:07:39 <freakazoid> egecko: that's very thin evidence
2105 2011-06-23 18:07:56 <freakazoid> egecko: it'd be cool, though
2106 2011-06-23 18:08:01 <egecko> i concede that point, and yes it is ancedotal
2107 2011-06-23 18:08:11 <gmaxwell> emock: have you compiled the client yourself? Can you compile it with symbols? and run it in gdb to find out exactly where thats happening?
2108 2011-06-23 18:08:22 <emock> done and done
2109 2011-06-23 18:08:42 <emock> and it only happened after the client was running for ~30 minutes
2110 2011-06-23 18:08:55 <egecko> but the fact that -- assuming bluesky is actually from china -- someone from china is posting that leaves evidence that at least someone over there knows about it and its ramifications for them
2111 2011-06-23 18:09:03 <emock> and gdb is still up and running with the dead process attached
2112 2011-06-23 18:09:17 <gmaxwell> ha. great
2113 2011-06-23 18:14:21 sanity has joined
2114 2011-06-23 18:14:43 <freakazoid> egecko: I think it's an adaptive trait
2115 2011-06-23 18:14:56 <freakazoid> egecko: the number of new things that have turned out to be bullshit is like 1000x the number of new things that have turned out to be awesome
2116 2011-06-23 18:14:57 larsivi has joined
2117 2011-06-23 18:15:02 <freakazoid> so a bias toward the status quo makes sense
2118 2011-06-23 18:15:08 <freakazoid> maybe more like a million x
2119 2011-06-23 18:15:17 <luke-jr> ;;bc,blocks
2120 2011-06-23 18:15:18 <gribble> 132854
2121 2011-06-23 18:17:22 underscor has joined
2122 2011-06-23 18:17:53 Juggie has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2123 2011-06-23 18:17:55 Blitzboom_ has joined
2124 2011-06-23 18:18:14 Juggie has joined
2125 2011-06-23 18:18:21 mmoya has joined
2126 2011-06-23 18:19:24 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2127 2011-06-23 18:19:36 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2128 2011-06-23 18:20:27 mmoya has joined
2129 2011-06-23 18:21:24 <TecnoBrat> GUYS CLONES PREPARE YOURSELVES!
2130 2011-06-23 18:22:44 zooko has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
2131 2011-06-23 18:22:48 <prof7bit> attack of the clone coins?
2132 2011-06-23 18:24:00 ezl has joined
2133 2011-06-23 18:24:38 guest has joined
2134 2011-06-23 18:26:16 <TecnoBrat> prof7bit: clearly.
2135 2011-06-23 18:27:00 <gmaxwell> MOVE FORK FOR GREAT JUSTICE?
2136 2011-06-23 18:27:08 <egecko> man, i thought someone already fixed that "clones attack" jukebox
2137 2011-06-23 18:27:46 <emock> and we need to clone first to stop the clones?
2138 2011-06-23 18:27:46 sonicrules1234 has joined
2139 2011-06-23 18:28:15 <emock> so the rich guys stop thinking it's a good idea?
2140 2011-06-23 18:28:26 sanity has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2141 2011-06-23 18:28:28 sanity_ has joined
2142 2011-06-23 18:28:56 <sonicrules1234> Hey, I'm having a problem compiling bitcoin.  I'm getting the error in main.o, says it has some undefined references in there
2143 2011-06-23 18:29:27 kW_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2144 2011-06-23 18:29:45 Maged has joined
2145 2011-06-23 18:30:22 <sonicrules1234> Anybody know how to fix it?
2146 2011-06-23 18:30:48 <erus`> references to what?
2147 2011-06-23 18:30:48 <gmaxwell> sonicrules1234: comment out the upnp line in the makefile or install the minipnp library.
2148 2011-06-23 18:31:06 * sonicrules1234 installs the minipnp library
2149 2011-06-23 18:31:26 <gmaxwell> (I'm taking a WAG because you said nothing about the specifics of the error, :) )
2150 2011-06-23 18:31:49 <gmaxwell> miniupnpc*
2151 2011-06-23 18:31:57 <sonicrules1234> Oh, that's better
2152 2011-06-23 18:32:02 mosimo has joined
2153 2011-06-23 18:32:17 <emock> gmaxwell is brilliant…
2154 2011-06-23 18:32:48 <emock> is "Loading block index…" just an inevitably slow thing?
2155 2011-06-23 18:33:01 <prof7bit> ok, here is a theoretical attack (doable by somebody with *BIG* money):
2156 2011-06-23 18:33:01 x6763 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2157 2011-06-23 18:33:12 <AlonzoTG> 'ey,
2158 2011-06-23 18:33:23 <sonicrules1234> gmaxwell: https://raw.github.com/gist/1043204/8a497befb3da28f9cef9dc6dd1e856e7ea5e605d/gistfile1.txt
2159 2011-06-23 18:33:34 <AlonzoTG> Is there a protocol for a client to operate a wallet on a server in the basement or something?
2160 2011-06-23 18:33:43 <egecko> nope
2161 2011-06-23 18:33:46 <AlonzoTG> =\
2162 2011-06-23 18:33:47 <prof7bit> sonebody establishes a mining pool but h will pay you in dollars instead of bitcoins...
2163 2011-06-23 18:34:05 <AlonzoTG> yeah,
2164 2011-06-23 18:34:13 <emock> a hoarder?
2165 2011-06-23 18:34:20 <prof7bit> and he will pay you slightly more than BTC ae worth
2166 2011-06-23 18:34:35 <pierce> prof7bit: why not slightly less?
2167 2011-06-23 18:34:37 <AlonzoTG> I'm trying to develop a bitcoin demon in ADA to manage your wallet and all your connections.
2168 2011-06-23 18:34:41 <prof7bit> all miners will start mining fo this pool
2169 2011-06-23 18:35:01 Qatz has joined
2170 2011-06-23 18:35:06 <emock> yea, a hoarder attack...
2171 2011-06-23 18:35:12 arima has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2172 2011-06-23 18:35:16 <pierce> prof7bit: the problem is moving a lot of USD like that is hard
2173 2011-06-23 18:35:17 <emock> and might not even require big money
2174 2011-06-23 18:35:31 <prof7bit> the pool will make losses but this doesn't matter, its sponsored by the government
2175 2011-06-23 18:35:35 evelyn66 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2176 2011-06-23 18:35:48 Nicksasa has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2177 2011-06-23 18:35:52 <egecko> prof7bit - but the miners would still be mining bitcoins, and the hoarder would just drive up the valuable of an individual bitcoin
2178 2011-06-23 18:35:56 <prof7bit> the pool will pay you in paypal or bank deposit
2179 2011-06-23 18:36:15 DaQatz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2180 2011-06-23 18:36:38 arima has joined
2181 2011-06-23 18:37:09 d1234 has joined
2182 2011-06-23 18:37:35 <sonicrules1234> gmaxwell: After installing that library, I get the same error.  There error is in that url I gave you
2183 2011-06-23 18:37:36 <emock> that sounds like an interesting market play...
2184 2011-06-23 18:38:00 <egecko> and really, the miners would be getting screwed in that deal even if they were being paid USD to mine
2185 2011-06-23 18:38:08 dbasch_ has quit (Quit: dbasch_)
2186 2011-06-23 18:38:26 <emock> sonicrules1234: that's compiling error, not a linking one..
2187 2011-06-23 18:38:32 <emock> check headers
2188 2011-06-23 18:38:34 <prof7bit> the pool could let you mine completely nonsense blocks, not real BTC blocks and still pay you much more than any other real pool could give you. soon nobody would mine BTC anymore, difficulty would drop and then the pool would attack by again switching over to real bitcoin blocks
2189 2011-06-23 18:38:35 <egecko> cause in the end the amount being paid to the miners thats over the spot value of BTC is just a reduction of the payer's margin since the value of the BTC is going to go up
2190 2011-06-23 18:39:07 <sonicrules1234> emock: Which headers?
2191 2011-06-23 18:39:30 <emock> prof7bit: so you mean it would use the delay for difficulty changes?
2192 2011-06-23 18:39:48 <prof7bit> it would cost immense amounts of dollars but they yould literally *BUY* the miners
2193 2011-06-23 18:40:25 <emock> but as difficulty went down wouldn't individual mining grow?
2194 2011-06-23 18:40:32 <egecko> so to boil it down, evil empire comes in, pays the miners to switch to mining for them, then when there isnt enough computing power, it swoops in and overtakes the btc chain
2195 2011-06-23 18:40:57 <prof7bit> they could buy all miners and nobody would use their igs fot bitcoin anymore and eventually they would use this immense computing power to take over the block chain completely.
2196 2011-06-23 18:41:36 segfault64 has joined
2197 2011-06-23 18:41:56 <prof7bit> phase 1: they pay you money to work on their alternative chain 8without telling you) and pay you dollars out of their own pocket
2198 2011-06-23 18:42:11 Nicksasa has joined
2199 2011-06-23 18:42:30 <egecko> its the "without telling you" where they would fail, the miners arent dumb and would notice it
2200 2011-06-23 18:42:37 <prof7bit> phase 2: when bitcoin difficulty has gone down they introduce their alternative chain and take over
2201 2011-06-23 18:43:10 <emock> but bitcoin difficulty decrease => individual miner increase
2202 2011-06-23 18:43:23 <prof7bit> the miners are mining for dollars
2203 2011-06-23 18:43:25 <egecko> that too
2204 2011-06-23 18:43:50 <emock> and with btc/usd going up, seems like a positive feedback
2205 2011-06-23 18:43:55 <egecko> so? do you do think miners dont perform basic technical checks while improving their miner kernels?
2206 2011-06-23 18:44:28 <prof7bit> if someone has a mining rig and the alternative to make twice as much money by just switching over to the dollar paying fake pool
2207 2011-06-23 18:44:34 <freakazoid> well hopefully they have huge unit test suites
2208 2011-06-23 18:44:34 <emock> well, it might not even have to be clandestine...
2209 2011-06-23 18:44:40 <egecko> someone would notice it sooner or later and that would destroy the reputation of said alternate pool causing all smart miners to flee from them
2210 2011-06-23 18:44:50 sanity has joined
2211 2011-06-23 18:44:55 <emock> aren't they just in it for the $$ anyway...
2212 2011-06-23 18:45:03 <emock> not like they care what they're mining.
2213 2011-06-23 18:45:32 <erska> that's true, people who have bought expensive mining rigs, want return for their investment
2214 2011-06-23 18:45:50 <egecko> ya, but if you're supposed to be mining BTC's and during testing you realize that the BTC's you are supposedly finding arent legit, you're gonna start sounding some alarms
2215 2011-06-23 18:45:53 <emock> but if btc/usd goes up then it might be better to mine btc
2216 2011-06-23 18:45:57 <prof7bit> it would be noticed immediately but you can buy people. you can buy the miners. they need money. offer them enough money and they will run their igs fo you and not bitcoin anymore.
2217 2011-06-23 18:46:10 <prof7bit> rigs*
2218 2011-06-23 18:46:24 <emock> prof7bit needs to fix his 'r' key
2219 2011-06-23 18:46:32 sanity__ has joined
2220 2011-06-23 18:46:52 <erska> many people who have built mining rigs, probably haven't done so for the sake of bitcoin
2221 2011-06-23 18:46:57 <prof7bit> yes, its boken
2222 2011-06-23 18:47:00 <prof7bit> broken
2223 2011-06-23 18:47:03 <erska> but because they see it as an easy way to make money
2224 2011-06-23 18:47:17 <emock> sanity__: that tail is growing…  or I like to call it the Pinocio nose
2225 2011-06-23 18:47:30 sanity_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2226 2011-06-23 18:47:36 crocopod has joined
2227 2011-06-23 18:48:34 <gmaxwell> sonicrules1234: yea, alas, not the issue I was guessing.
2228 2011-06-23 18:48:52 ionspin has joined
2229 2011-06-23 18:48:55 <egecko> that just makes it more important for all of us to make sure that white hats continue to contribute towards btc mining for the sake of bitcoins and not just their pocket
2230 2011-06-23 18:48:57 Pinion has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2231 2011-06-23 18:49:06 sanity has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2232 2011-06-23 18:49:06 taub has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2233 2011-06-23 18:49:17 <sonicrules1234> gmaxwell: Any idea how to fix it now that you have the actual error?
2234 2011-06-23 18:49:56 <emock> but I think he fixed error #18 that you will have later
2235 2011-06-23 18:50:33 <prof7bit> they could even do it with real bitcoins. they buy a few hundred thousand BTC on the exchanges and then with that reservoir of bitcoins they make a pool that pays 70BTC per block this would drive all other pools out of the game.
2236 2011-06-23 18:51:09 <gmaxwell> sonicrules1234: it's kind of inexplicable, or at least I'm too sleep deprived to see the cause. Try doing a make clean and recompiling it all again.
2237 2011-06-23 18:51:12 <emock> yea, that's why mtgox shouldn't reverse
2238 2011-06-23 18:51:19 <sonicrules1234> gmaxwell: Ok
2239 2011-06-23 18:53:11 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: for the cost of a few hundred thousnand btc you just buy hardware to get 50% of hashpower on your own.
2240 2011-06-23 18:53:27 <vegard> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_CHECKSIG <-- there is something strange under "How it works"; first (#2) it says that subScript becomes everything following the previous OP_CODESEPARATOR, then (#6) it says that all OP_CODESEPARATORs are removed from subScript
2241 2011-06-23 18:53:40 <vegard> isn't #6 redundant, then?
2242 2011-06-23 18:53:50 <prof7bit> i doubt that this would buy enough computing hardware
2243 2011-06-23 18:54:44 <prof7bit> the successor of bitcoin (RIP) must work in such a way that there is no use in things like mining pools o mining pools are somehow impossible.
2244 2011-06-23 18:54:58 <pierce> miners have every incentive to make sure that bitcoin's price remains strong
2245 2011-06-23 18:55:05 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: ~4million in raw gpu costs to match the network, though at that price you could fab an asic.
2246 2011-06-23 18:56:47 <unclemantis> anyone working with a testnet-in-a-box?
2247 2011-06-23 18:59:14 <pusle> like 25000 ati cards or more?
2248 2011-06-23 18:59:18 segfault64 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2249 2011-06-23 18:59:40 <pusle> that would be one hot NSA bunker
2250 2011-06-23 18:59:42 <vegard> what do I have to do to edit pages in the wiki?
2251 2011-06-23 19:00:10 <emock> so, when do you think some chip designer at a big company sneaks a mining ic on a mass produced chip?
2252 2011-06-23 19:00:14 <vegard> oh. confirm it maybe.
2253 2011-06-23 19:00:15 <gmaxwell> vegard: login. most are editable.
2254 2011-06-23 19:00:38 zelyony has joined
2255 2011-06-23 19:00:47 <gmaxwell> emock: omg just some tiny irregular wedged shape corner on intel's 22nm...
2256 2011-06-23 19:01:49 <emock> and then announces that all new pc's can mine like an atomic bomb
2257 2011-06-23 19:02:21 <erus`> emock: slight crash until all coins are mined in 2 months
2258 2011-06-23 19:02:25 <erus`> then major deflation
2259 2011-06-23 19:02:41 <gmaxwell> erus`: hah, yea that can't happen. :)
2260 2011-06-23 19:02:43 <prof7bit> if you basically *own* all miners (all working for you) then you don't even have to match the power or compete with anything, then you *are* the network. you don't even need to buy more coins for dollars to keep up with the 70BTC/block, you just steal them out of the block chain in you own fabricated block chain variant.
2261 2011-06-23 19:02:49 spirals has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2262 2011-06-23 19:02:49 <erus`> hyper deflation like pre nazi germany upside down
2263 2011-06-23 19:02:55 <emock> what's the lack in difficulty update?
2264 2011-06-23 19:03:19 <emock> lag
2265 2011-06-23 19:03:32 <prof7bit> and this would destroy bitcoin completely.
2266 2011-06-23 19:03:34 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: you get get 70BTC/ block into the miners wallets that way.
2267 2011-06-23 19:03:52 <erus`> why is bitcoind so slow to respond to requests?
2268 2011-06-23 19:04:03 <prof7bit> do the clients accept blocks with such unusual generation transaction?
2269 2011-06-23 19:04:17 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: At some point your proposal becomes isomorphic to "we could convince people to switch to something which isn't bitcoin at all", true— but thats not something we could ever hope to address.
2270 2011-06-23 19:04:23 * AlonzoTG reads the protocol docs, what's up with this "input" transaction/"output" transaction business?
2271 2011-06-23 19:04:31 <AlonzoTG> Isn't a transaction a transaction,
2272 2011-06-23 19:04:34 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: of course not. Bitcoin is basically a trust-no-one system
2273 2011-06-23 19:04:49 <AlonzoTG> and not some complex object that could be a pre-req of something else?
2274 2011-06-23 19:04:50 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: everything validates every rule on their own
2275 2011-06-23 19:05:42 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: and the miners only serve the purpose of breaking ties in the system.
2276 2011-06-23 19:05:49 <emock> I'm sure this has been discussed but what about PLDs for mining?
2277 2011-06-23 19:05:57 <gmaxwell> AlonzoTG: a txn is a 'complex object that could be a pre-req of something else'
2278 2011-06-23 19:05:58 * emock knows very little about PLDs
2279 2011-06-23 19:07:30 <gmaxwell> emock: nah, hell it doesn't work well on anything buy fairly large fpgas. PLDs and CPLDs are at thewrong end of the scale.
2280 2011-06-23 19:08:00 <emock> well, I meant PLDs in general...
2281 2011-06-23 19:08:26 <gmaxwell> There are people mining on FPGAs, but the economics currently favor GPUs.
2282 2011-06-23 19:08:53 gavinandresen has joined
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2284 2011-06-23 19:09:11 sanity__ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2285 2011-06-23 19:09:57 <ionspin> I'm interested, why when doing backup, do you need to back up your transactions? Couldn't you just back up your keys?
2286 2011-06-23 19:10:31 <gmaxwell> ionspin: you only need the keys. The txn will be recovered from the blockchain.
2287 2011-06-23 19:10:53 <gmaxwell> (thats the same reason you don't need to be online to recieve bitcoin)
2288 2011-06-23 19:11:12 <prof7bit> if theoretically such a mining pool existed. say if tomorrow one of the big pools suddenly started paying 60/block (with some dubious excuse or no excuse at all) and there were an outcry on the forums and dire warnings not to use this pool, would the miners listen? would they still listen if they increased to 70/block o even more?
2289 2011-06-23 19:11:27 <emock> copumpkin: http://raintown.org/lava/
2290 2011-06-23 19:11:31 <gmaxwell> ...
2291 2011-06-23 19:11:43 anu has joined
2292 2011-06-23 19:11:53 <ionspin> excellent! I read in an old thread that there was some problems with bitcoin client had problems if you sent coins, and then restored an earlier backup, but that was resolved with precomuputed addresses
2293 2011-06-23 19:11:55 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: their blocks would just be ignored by every other system, it would be exactly the same as if they put out blocks that didn't meet the required difficulty.
2294 2011-06-23 19:12:31 <gmaxwell> ionspin: yes, well there is still the risk of that. The keys are not precomputed forever ahead, only 100 ahead.
2295 2011-06-23 19:12:46 <prof7bit> no, in the beginning they would still operate correctly, paying the excess money from their own pockets
2296 2011-06-23 19:12:55 koleg has quit (2!kvirc@79.133.154.233|Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
2297 2011-06-23 19:13:00 <ionspin> but that is only a bitcoin client bug, you are not actually affected by that?
2298 2011-06-23 19:13:26 <gmaxwell> ionspin: hm? it's not a bug— its how it works by design. (I personally don't like it, but its intentional)
2299 2011-06-23 19:13:36 <unclemantis> i am getting a 500 request timeout using RPC with bitcoind. Anyone else?
2300 2011-06-23 19:13:40 <ionspin> oh, damn
2301 2011-06-23 19:13:50 <ionspin> gmaxwell, anyways thanks, i think i'll work around that somehow
2302 2011-06-23 19:13:57 <gmaxwell> it means you need to backup agains at least every 100 getaddresses/sends to be save. (though you don't have to backup anything but the keys)
2303 2011-06-23 19:14:04 <jgarzik> you may set the keypool size as high as you like
2304 2011-06-23 19:14:09 <jgarzik> 10,000 keys is fine
2305 2011-06-23 19:14:10 <AlonzoTG> ok,
2306 2011-06-23 19:14:12 <prof7bit> its all about the question would miners change to an obviously dubious pool if it paid 20% more money (no matter where that money comes from).
2307 2011-06-23 19:14:34 <jrmithdobbs> prof7bit: you can't do what you described, though
2308 2011-06-23 19:14:36 <gmaxwell> I guess I should have said that, I'm set to 1000. :-/
2309 2011-06-23 19:14:45 <AlonzoTG> I think I can handle the protocols and the SHA hashing, and the accounting and user control functions, but the gap in my understanding right now is the wallet and the mechanics of using it.
2310 2011-06-23 19:14:56 <AlonzoTG> brb
2311 2011-06-23 19:14:57 <prof7bit> i think this is the weakest point. the only reason people are equally distributed acros pools is they all forced to pay the same.
2312 2011-06-23 19:15:05 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: it doesn't matter "begginning"  or whenever. They could have 100x the hashpower of the rest of the network, their blocks would be ignored all the same.
2313 2011-06-23 19:15:13 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: i'm at like 9000 but not in keypool, just from various wallet testing, lol
2314 2011-06-23 19:15:40 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: I don't think you ever answered when I asked how it performed with lots of keys, so I just set it to 1000.
2315 2011-06-23 19:15:57 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: oh it does surprisingly well
2316 2011-06-23 19:16:04 <ius> So eh, the two factor mumbo jumbo for mtgox, is that a general security improvement, or meant as a red herring to back up that their DB will really be secure from now on? :x
2317 2011-06-23 19:16:17 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: anyways, meeting :)
2318 2011-06-23 19:16:19 <prof7bit> why should they be ignored? they don't need to make invalid blocks, just do the usual kind of things that are possible when owning the majority
2319 2011-06-23 19:16:39 <unclemantis> why am i getting a Request Timeout when i connect to bitcoind using rpc?
2320 2011-06-23 19:16:46 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: And what do you think is possible when owning the majority of hashpower? :)
2321 2011-06-23 19:17:23 <prof7bit> making an alternative slightly different but still formally valid chain.
2322 2011-06-23 19:17:40 <gmaxwell> prof7bit: what would be different about it?
2323 2011-06-23 19:18:41 <prof7bit> does not matter. just enough to make people lose confidence. strange vanished or missing transactions once in a while or things like that
2324 2011-06-23 19:19:03 <gmaxwell> Indeed. Fair enough.
2325 2011-06-23 19:19:29 dvide_ has quit ()
2326 2011-06-23 19:19:41 mmoya has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2327 2011-06-23 19:19:44 <gmaxwell> But when we yell loudly "yes they pay you more but the concentration of power will make what they pay you worthless?" might that not resolve it?
2328 2011-06-23 19:20:00 <prof7bit> thsi is the question!
2329 2011-06-23 19:20:09 <prof7bit> this is what i am wondering about
2330 2011-06-23 19:20:33 karnac has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2331 2011-06-23 19:20:39 <prof7bit> will the miners listen to the warnings?
2332 2011-06-23 19:20:54 <prof7bit> or will they listen to their wallet
2333 2011-06-23 19:21:13 <egecko> depends on the miner just like every ethical and moral decision comes down to
2334 2011-06-23 19:21:20 <gmaxwell> deepbit isn't ~50% anymore, in spite of the google ads, temporarily 0%ed fees, etc.
2335 2011-06-23 19:21:30 stuhood has joined
2336 2011-06-23 19:21:57 <gmaxwell> And this is even though there is already widespread misconception that mining is always a race and the biggest pool gives you a big advantage.
2337 2011-06-23 19:22:06 <egecko> and dont forget, there are people involved with this who are doing so for ideological reasons and not monetary reasons
2338 2011-06-23 19:22:13 <erska> prof7bit: take at the look on the price chart, compare it with network hash rate.. I think you will find your answer there
2339 2011-06-23 19:22:21 <gmaxwell> egecko: it's fair to say that they are outnumbeed.
2340 2011-06-23 19:22:21 <jgarzik> use the Power Of The Default Option.  Build chain-overpower checks into default mining clients, as deepbit's operator [Tycho] suggested.
2341 2011-06-23 19:22:52 <egecko> erosion is never outnumbered! ;)
2342 2011-06-23 19:23:02 johnlockwood_ has joined
2343 2011-06-23 19:23:09 <gmaxwell> Also— put out mining clients that mine on multiple pools at once. Even lower variance, better reliablity.
2344 2011-06-23 19:23:10 Rictoo_ has joined
2345 2011-06-23 19:23:16 stuhood has left ()
2346 2011-06-23 19:23:22 <egecko> the legacy system is corrupt and flawed beyond repair
2347 2011-06-23 19:23:44 <egecko> time to scrap it and start over!
2348 2011-06-23 19:23:56 johnlockwood_ has left ()
2349 2011-06-23 19:24:11 <egecko> use the fiat currencies for what they are, government owned pieces of paper that let you buy and sell the necessities of life
2350 2011-06-23 19:24:51 <egecko> okay, i need to put this energy into code and not railing against the machine =]
2351 2011-06-23 19:24:52 <phrontist> jgarzik: chain-overpower?
2352 2011-06-23 19:25:45 Rictoo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2353 2011-06-23 19:25:47 Blitzboom_ is now known as Blitzboom
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2362 2011-06-23 19:29:37 <TD> good evening
2363 2011-06-23 19:29:58 LuffyZoro has joined
2364 2011-06-23 19:30:21 jimb0 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2365 2011-06-23 19:30:24 <gavinandresen> Hey Mike
2366 2011-06-23 19:30:26 lorenzoIT has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2367 2011-06-23 19:31:01 MacRohard has joined
2368 2011-06-23 19:31:46 <coderrr> how do you guys handle doing the official builds ?
2369 2011-06-23 19:33:00 jimb0 has joined
2370 2011-06-23 19:33:01 <jgarzik> codemojo: gitian
2371 2011-06-23 19:33:18 <coderrr> so taht works for all OSs ?
2372 2011-06-23 19:33:25 <jgarzik> sipa: speaking of... we need to enable debugging symbols in our future builds
2373 2011-06-23 19:33:42 sonicrules1234 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2374 2011-06-23 19:33:43 <gavinandresen> coderrr: see http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=2926.0
2375 2011-06-23 19:33:44 <jgarzik> codemojo: works for linux & windows.  OSX is built by a longstanding community member, laszlo.
2376 2011-06-23 19:33:52 torsthaldo_ has joined
2377 2011-06-23 19:34:05 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2378 2011-06-23 19:34:11 <coderrr> thx
2379 2011-06-23 19:34:14 <jgarzik> s/codemojo/coderrr/
2380 2011-06-23 19:34:15 torsthaldo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2381 2011-06-23 19:34:27 <jgarzik> coderrr: autotools build process is coming soon
2382 2011-06-23 19:35:10 Tim-7967 has joined
2383 2011-06-23 19:35:54 <unclemantis> is anyone having trouble with bitcoind RPC? I am getting the following error RestClient::RequestTimeout
2384 2011-06-23 19:36:06 <unclemantis> this happens after about 30 seconds i think
2385 2011-06-23 19:36:18 sgstair has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2386 2011-06-23 19:36:22 <unclemantis> i do have the right port because if i use a different port I get a can not connect type error
2387 2011-06-23 19:36:36 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2388 2011-06-23 19:36:47 <LuffyZoro> \connect
2389 2011-06-23 19:36:48 <prof7bit> and the unhandled exception handler needs to print a stack trace. i am having an exception when exiting the client and there is no easy way of telling what it is and i am not well versed with gdb and also don't know how to build with debugging symbols because i am not a c++ or c programmer.
2390 2011-06-23 19:36:51 <Ramen> ;;bc,stats
2391 2011-06-23 19:36:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 132865 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 190 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 18 hours, 53 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1352556.89261053
2392 2011-06-23 19:36:57 <unclemantis> here is the line of Ruby that I am using @endpoint = "#{user}:#{pass}@localhost:#{port}"
2393 2011-06-23 19:37:29 erus` has joined
2394 2011-06-23 19:37:33 <egecko> lesigh
2395 2011-06-23 19:37:41 <unclemantis> le purr
2396 2011-06-23 19:38:16 enquirer has left ()
2397 2011-06-23 19:38:38 <egecko> egads! greece has been saved and armageddon isnt gonna happen.... again. </sarcasm> (eu & imf have agreed to save greece)
2398 2011-06-23 19:39:25 <emock> Jon Stewart had some interesting perspective on that ;-)
2399 2011-06-23 19:39:55 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2400 2011-06-23 19:40:02 <emock> btw, I ask again, is loading the block index just an inevitably slow operation?  since the db is so big.
2401 2011-06-23 19:40:20 * unclemantis bangs head on desk
2402 2011-06-23 19:40:23 <prof7bit> was this the reason for euro jumping up 100 pips? (after it fell 300 today?)
2403 2011-06-23 19:40:24 <unclemantis> RUFKM!
2404 2011-06-23 19:40:24 <egecko> the first run can take a while
2405 2011-06-23 19:40:28 jivvz has joined
2406 2011-06-23 19:40:49 <emock> 'first run'?
2407 2011-06-23 19:41:08 <unclemantis> I think he means, new wallet
2408 2011-06-23 19:41:10 Qatz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2411 2011-06-23 19:41:29 <emock> egecko: no, I'm not talking about getting the chain
2412 2011-06-23 19:41:35 <emock> just loading it from disk
2413 2011-06-23 19:42:41 zelyony has left ()
2414 2011-06-23 19:42:49 LuffyZoro has joined
2415 2011-06-23 19:43:09 Teslah has joined
2416 2011-06-23 19:43:23 * unclemantis reboots the server just for the heck of it
2417 2011-06-23 19:43:29 <egecko> oh
2418 2011-06-23 19:43:37 <egecko> it depends on how many addresses you have
2419 2011-06-23 19:43:39 <prof7bit> for the duration of the first run there needs to be a better term than "a while". "a while" is not strong enough to describe how long it takes.
2420 2011-06-23 19:44:06 mmoya has joined
2421 2011-06-23 19:44:53 <prof7bit> it feels like downloading a 600MB movie with a 56k modem in ~1998
2422 2011-06-23 19:45:22 vragnaroda is now known as Guest317059
2423 2011-06-23 19:45:25 <emock> yea, a while is like 10 sec.
2424 2011-06-23 19:45:43 <emock> i.e. why the app takes forever to launch
2425 2011-06-23 19:45:56 Guest317059 is now known as varnaroda
2426 2011-06-23 19:45:57 <prof7bit> there needs to be a splash screen.
2427 2011-06-23 19:46:08 <prof7bit> with a progress bar
2428 2011-06-23 19:46:40 <sipa> wumpus' qt gui has such a bar i believe
2429 2011-06-23 19:47:26 LuffyZoro has quit (Client Quit)
2430 2011-06-23 19:47:26 <ericmock> well, I have it so the UI comes up before the index is loaded....
2431 2011-06-23 19:47:40 <prof7bit> and the same is true for shutting it down, it will actually keep running a while and doing things on the disk for a while after shutting down.
2432 2011-06-23 19:47:56 <prof7bit> while == a few minutes!
2433 2011-06-23 19:48:01 <ericmock> and will have some 'spinner' to indicate 'slow operation'
2434 2011-06-23 19:48:01 Pinion has joined
2435 2011-06-23 19:48:25 o_0oo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2436 2011-06-23 19:49:06 varnaroda is now known as vragnaroda
2437 2011-06-23 19:49:08 <prof7bit> few minutes = thinkpad t40 / 500MB / 1.3GHz
2438 2011-06-23 19:49:26 <ericmock> is qt really have a /progress/ bar?
2439 2011-06-23 19:49:28 <ericmock> does
2440 2011-06-23 19:49:41 <iera> of course
2441 2011-06-23 19:49:56 <vragnaroda> ericmock: how's the cocoa client coming along?
2442 2011-06-23 19:50:05 <unclemantis> i think my bitcoind is brokeie
2443 2011-06-23 19:50:07 <ericmock> then how did they hook into the core code without modding it?
2444 2011-06-23 19:50:15 <ericmock> vragnaroda: good...
2445 2011-06-23 19:50:56 <ericmock> getting close to beta...  and will need some testers soon
2446 2011-06-23 19:51:03 <prof7bit> and the most important issue is that somebody should start working on the scalability problem, discarding unused old transactions or how this is supposed to work.
2447 2011-06-23 19:51:10 <vragnaroda> ericmock: i'm more than willing to help test it
2448 2011-06-23 19:51:13 <prof7bit> s/should/must
2449 2011-06-23 19:51:18 <ericmock> great
2450 2011-06-23 19:51:21 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2451 2011-06-23 19:51:34 phatsphere has joined
2452 2011-06-23 19:52:23 <ericmock> vragnaroda: you willing to play with an alpha?  with a dummy wallet?
2453 2011-06-23 19:52:31 <unclemantis> ok. bitcoind RPC works but for SOME REASON the testnet-in-a-box bitcoind config files are NOT
2454 2011-06-23 19:52:31 <prof7bit> everything else is only working around the symptoms. another few months and the client cannot be started at all anymore if it has been unused for a few days!
2455 2011-06-23 19:52:48 <vragnaroda> ericmock: sure
2456 2011-06-23 19:53:37 <prof7bit> the scalability problem should have priority #1 or bitcoin will die a slow and painful death soon.
2457 2011-06-23 19:53:37 blzpgn has joined
2458 2011-06-23 19:54:01 <prof7bit> soon == half a year
2459 2011-06-23 19:54:35 <vegard> why can't it be started after a few days?
2460 2011-06-23 19:54:42 <prof7bit> because nobody will be able to install it anymore, even if they desperately want
2461 2011-06-23 19:54:43 <vegard> too much to download? (how much, how long?)
2462 2011-06-23 19:55:25 blzpgn has quit (Client Quit)
2463 2011-06-23 19:55:26 <prof7bit> it seems the longer the block chain the lonfer it takes to validate a single block.
2464 2011-06-23 19:55:45 blzpgn has joined
2465 2011-06-23 19:55:47 <vegard> really? that doesn't seem right
2466 2011-06-23 19:56:25 <prof7bit> catching up 100 blocks took a few seconds when it was young, now it takes a 10 minutes, soon it will take longer than new blocks come in
2467 2011-06-23 19:58:40 eternal1 has joined
2468 2011-06-23 19:59:02 <gavinandresen> prof7bit: that's a function of the number of transactions. If your CPU is too slow, you can't validate ECDSA signatures fast enough to keep up.
2469 2011-06-23 19:59:12 <prof7bit> i have started it yesterday with downloading the chain. the first third went extremely fast, the second third took the whole night and now i am at 123000 and expect it to run another entire night for the remaining 10000 blocks
2470 2011-06-23 19:59:13 <gavinandresen> (at least, I'm assuming that's the bottleneck)
2471 2011-06-23 19:59:24 <emock> while I realize this goes against some core principles, it might be good to allow clients to catch up on a central chain
2472 2011-06-23 19:59:54 <gavinandresen> emock: go for it, publish a chain somewhere for people to download.
2473 2011-06-23 20:00:08 <emock> prof7bit: yea, I've noticed that too…  and wondered why
2474 2011-06-23 20:00:09 falcnor has joined
2475 2011-06-23 20:00:20 <falcnor> I hear there is a cocoa bitcoin client?
2476 2011-06-23 20:00:22 <emock> fewer nodes with the information?
2477 2011-06-23 20:00:25 <unclemantis> has anyone here had trouble connecting with testnet-in-a-box configuration?
2478 2011-06-23 20:00:37 <unclemantis> I am searching everywhere and I am not sure why it is timing out
2479 2011-06-23 20:00:46 <vegard> so does it need to validate more ECDSA signatures the longer the chain is?
2480 2011-06-23 20:00:49 <emock> falcnor: you here correct http://snapplr.com/p47q
2481 2011-06-23 20:00:52 <emock> hear
2482 2011-06-23 20:00:54 <emock> kinda
2483 2011-06-23 20:00:55 <falcnor> Awesoem!
2484 2011-06-23 20:01:04 <gavinandresen> vegard: no, later blocks contain more transactions because there are more users now.
2485 2011-06-23 20:01:09 * falcnor is willing to test it out.
2486 2011-06-23 20:01:15 <emock> okay
2487 2011-06-23 20:01:16 <vegard> oh, right.
2488 2011-06-23 20:01:25 <vegard> that's not something that can be fixed, though, is it?
2489 2011-06-23 20:01:26 <emock> gavinandresen: ah, that explains it
2490 2011-06-23 20:01:27 <falcnor> I hope you have a place to add nodes in it. :D
2491 2011-06-23 20:01:41 <falcnor> because running the native client with command line is bunk
2492 2011-06-23 20:01:54 <emock> falcnor: shit, didn't you notice that it doesn't even show debits/credits yet ;-)
2493 2011-06-23 20:01:56 <ahbritto> emock: Are you going to offer this in the app store?  Will apple allow it?
2494 2011-06-23 20:02:03 <falcnor> Bah
2495 2011-06-23 20:02:16 <falcnor> addnode > credit/debit
2496 2011-06-23 20:02:17 <emock> but that's just a simple TODO
2497 2011-06-23 20:02:21 <unclemantis> anyone? http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/
2498 2011-06-23 20:02:23 <falcnor> ;)
2499 2011-06-23 20:02:32 <emock> not sure what the future holds for this...
2500 2011-06-23 20:02:39 <emock> AppStore maybe
2501 2011-06-23 20:02:55 <gavinandresen> unclemantis: I use testnet-in-a-box all the time with no problems.
2502 2011-06-23 20:02:58 <emock> iOS client maybe…  iOS is my background
2503 2011-06-23 20:02:58 vonnieda has joined
2504 2011-06-23 20:03:10 <falcnor> Make it purdy for the iPad please.
2505 2011-06-23 20:03:11 <unclemantis> gavinandresen can you explain why the connection would be timing out?
2506 2011-06-23 20:03:18 * emock is not sure why Apple rejected that one client
2507 2011-06-23 20:03:38 <prof7bit> apple will not allow bitcoin because of the "scripts" in the transactions (which should be left away in bitcoin v2.0 because they are nonsense)
2508 2011-06-23 20:03:41 <falcnor> emock: serisouly though.  You need testers?
2509 2011-06-23 20:03:45 <gavinandresen> unclemantis: nope.  Make sure you're connecting to the right port (18332, if I remember rightly) with the right rpcuser/password
2510 2011-06-23 20:03:46 <ahbritto> emock: Apple has banned bitcoin apps: deals with an intermediate currency.
2511 2011-06-23 20:03:46 <unclemantis> i am sure i have the correct port since if i use the mainline port i get an error that i can't connnect imediatlyu
2512 2011-06-23 20:03:56 BMoney has quit ()
2513 2011-06-23 20:03:59 <unclemantis> the username and password is correct
2514 2011-06-23 20:04:02 <emock> since it seems there are a lot (a few) of OSX users here…  UI question:
2515 2011-06-23 20:04:18 TheZimm has quit (Excess Flood)
2516 2011-06-23 20:04:23 TheZimm has joined
2517 2011-06-23 20:04:33 <emock> ahbritto: that 'ban' seems like one rejection…  and I really wonder about there being a misunderstanding
2518 2011-06-23 20:04:36 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2519 2011-06-23 20:04:38 <jgarzik> I would love to drop scripts in btc2, and change algos to RSASSA-PSS.  Of course, with the network effect, very little urgency to creating btc2.
2520 2011-06-23 20:04:39 <unclemantis> the config files in folder 1 and 2. the one in folder 2 is a bit different. Do i need to set the username and password in both config files or just the first one?
2521 2011-06-23 20:04:43 <jgarzik> and scripts can be useful
2522 2011-06-23 20:05:06 <ahbritto> emock: The currency objection seems pretty explicit.  Although there are paypal and dwolla apps.
2523 2011-06-23 20:05:18 <emock> yea,
2524 2011-06-23 20:05:32 <emock> UI question:  (I'd forgotten)
2525 2011-06-23 20:05:41 <egecko> ive been meaning to ask.. what exactly is the CScript class for?
2526 2011-06-23 20:05:43 <emock> the tab view seems dumb to me...
2527 2011-06-23 20:05:55 <emock> how about just check boxes for what you want to see.
2528 2011-06-23 20:05:56 <vonnieda> I hear there is a Cocoa client up for testing in here?
2529 2011-06-23 20:06:00 d1234_ has joined
2530 2011-06-23 20:06:17 <vragnaroda> vonnieda: *will be soon*, not quite yet
2531 2011-06-23 20:06:20 d1234 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2532 2011-06-23 20:06:26 <emock> seems like the current client abuses the tab metaphor
2533 2011-06-23 20:06:34 <unclemantis> i think i located the problem, brb
2534 2011-06-23 20:06:38 <vonnieda> vragnaroda: Ah, excellent!
2535 2011-06-23 20:07:01 <emock> christ folks…  I'm a mech eng prof….  but hold on, will have a dropbox link in a few minutes
2536 2011-06-23 20:07:32 <unclemantis> rpcusername is what i had, i think i am supposed to have rpcuser
2537 2011-06-23 20:07:39 eternal1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2538 2011-06-23 20:07:40 <vegard> egecko: scripts determine if you're allowed to redeem a transaction output (i.e. spent bitcoins)
2539 2011-06-23 20:07:55 eternal1 has joined
2540 2011-06-23 20:08:16 <vegard> egecko: they're scripts to allow a bit of flexibility in what you "need" in order to be able to spend
2541 2011-06-23 20:08:25 <vragnaroda> what i'd really like is an up-to-date bitcoin client in macports
2542 2011-06-23 20:08:33 <emock> are there 'splinter' dev channels?
2543 2011-06-23 20:08:50 <emock> like could we make a bitcoin-dev-cocoa channel?
2544 2011-06-23 20:09:18 <unclemantis> Request timeout still
2545 2011-06-23 20:09:19 <unclemantis> wtf
2546 2011-06-23 20:09:36 <vragnaroda> emock: you can make one :)
2547 2011-06-23 20:09:51 * emock would if he remember how
2548 2011-06-23 20:10:05 devrandom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2549 2011-06-23 20:10:17 <vragnaroda> emock: /j it first, then /msg chanserv register <channelname>
2550 2011-06-23 20:11:09 devrandom has joined
2551 2011-06-23 20:11:34 <prof7bit> doesn't it have to search the entire blockchain for the inputs if it validates a transaction?
2552 2011-06-23 20:12:01 <prof7bit> will it search from the end backwards or will it start at the beginning?
2553 2011-06-23 20:12:17 <unclemantis> gavinandresen the http://user:password@localhost:18333 correct?
2554 2011-06-23 20:12:34 <emock> vragnaroda: chanserv = ?
2555 2011-06-23 20:12:35 <prof7bit> i am seeing permanent harddisk activity
2556 2011-06-23 20:12:45 djoot has joined
2557 2011-06-23 20:12:50 <vragnaroda> emock: chanserv handles registering channels
2558 2011-06-23 20:12:50 <emock> but might be there already:  #bitcoin-dev-cocoa
2559 2011-06-23 20:13:01 djoot has quit (Changing host)
2560 2011-06-23 20:13:01 djoot has joined
2561 2011-06-23 20:13:07 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2562 2011-06-23 20:13:08 <vragnaroda> emock: freenode lets you /j channels ad-hoc anyway
2563 2011-06-23 20:13:34 <vegard> prof7bit: transactions include a reference to the transactions it spends. so it looks up those in the block chain. and all blocks in the chain should already be validated, so it doesn't need to go further. (I think this is right.)
2564 2011-06-23 20:14:08 <prof7bit> maybe some kind of index to easier find the block number for a given transaction would speed things up and decrease disk io
2565 2011-06-23 20:14:17 <vegard> it exists
2566 2011-06-23 20:14:35 <prof7bit> it would waste more disk space but speed up things
2567 2011-06-23 20:14:38 <vegard> blkindex.dat lets you look up blocks and transactions by transaction id
2568 2011-06-23 20:14:43 d1234_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2569 2011-06-23 20:14:55 <vegard> s/id/hash/
2570 2011-06-23 20:15:35 <emock> CocoaBitcoin testers wanted in #bitcoin-dev-cocoa
2571 2011-06-23 20:15:37 Breign has joined
2572 2011-06-23 20:16:09 <ius> jgarzik: Did anyone ever propose an alternative to the bitcoind<>pushpool interface? The huge number of tcp sockets it's using still appears to be an issue for pools
2573 2011-06-23 20:17:34 <prof7bit> i'm trying to find a logical reason why it is taking longer and longer to validate a block although the blocks around 123000 where i am at the moment dont seem to be 10 times larger than the ones i saw yesterday when it went 10 times faster
2574 2011-06-23 20:17:50 <jgarzik> ius: well the solution is obvious, but as yet uncoded :)  need constant TCP connections, rather than current connect+transact+disconnect w/ HTTP 1.0.  First half of solution is async I/O: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/214  Second half of solution is HTTP/1.1 persistent connection support.  Patches welcome/requested for that.
2575 2011-06-23 20:17:57 <gim> is there any testnet equivalent of this http://blockexplorer.com/q/reorglog ?
2576 2011-06-23 20:19:11 <ius> I see
2577 2011-06-23 20:19:57 netrin has joined
2578 2011-06-23 20:21:27 <dinox> I want to get change to the same address I send from
2579 2011-06-23 20:21:28 <dinox> Looking at CommitTransaction in main.cpp, how may I set reservekey to the sending key?
2580 2011-06-23 20:21:50 <netrin> hello, i've been looking through the 0.3.23 code, regarding the -keypool=100. CWalletDB::ReserveKeyFromKeyPool(int64& nIndex, CKeyPool& keypool)
2581 2011-06-23 20:22:41 <TD> right
2582 2011-06-23 20:22:49 * TD added another example and more detail to the Contracts page
2583 2011-06-23 20:23:04 <netrin> I can't tell if the 100 keys in reserve pool are all keys in the wallet, or only those unused/future keys. I want to prove an assumption to myself (that there are ALWAYS 100 more keys than I have seen in the UI)
2584 2011-06-23 20:25:15 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2585 2011-06-23 20:25:28 <gavinandresen> unclemantis: 18332 is the rpc port.  333 is the p2p port.
2586 2011-06-23 20:25:55 Incitatus has joined
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2588 2011-06-23 20:28:02 <unclemantis> gavinandresen so what should i connect to using a Rest Client
2589 2011-06-23 20:28:33 <netrin> Is a buffer of 100 keys guaranteed in the current wallet whenever bitcoin client starts up? (I've been looking through db.cpp for confirmation, but I can't tell if "setKeyPool" is the total set of keys, or the 'buffer'/unused keys)
2590 2011-06-23 20:28:36 <gavinandresen> unclemantis: 18332
2591 2011-06-23 20:28:47 <unclemantis> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/
2592 2011-06-23 20:28:52 <unclemantis> that says to connect to 18333
2593 2011-06-23 20:29:22 <unclemantis> I am trying 18332 in case there is a typo
2594 2011-06-23 20:29:34 <unclemantis> nope
2595 2011-06-23 20:29:40 pusle has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2596 2011-06-23 20:29:41 <unclemantis> 18332 got me a connection refused
2597 2011-06-23 20:29:48 <unclemantis> 18333 gives me a timeout
2598 2011-06-23 20:30:53 freakazoid has joined
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2603 2011-06-23 20:33:13 <unclemantis> gavinandresen would showing you my debug.log be any help to you?
2604 2011-06-23 20:33:40 <gavinandresen> unclemantis: one sec...
2605 2011-06-23 20:34:43 <unclemantis> gavinandresen i would appreciate it
2606 2011-06-23 20:35:31 <jgarzik> unclemantis: you have already tried 8332, I guess?
2607 2011-06-23 20:35:46 <gavinandresen> Sorry, I misremembered the testnet rpc port-- jgarzik is right, it is 8332
2608 2011-06-23 20:35:47 phearful has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2609 2011-06-23 20:35:48 <unclemantis> 8332 is the mainline and ya i tried it, could not connect
2610 2011-06-23 20:36:09 <jgarzik> unclemantis: connection refused?
2611 2011-06-23 20:36:29 <gavinandresen> curl --user "":123 --data-binary '{"jsonrpc": "1.0", "id":"curltest", "method": "getinfo", "params": [] }' http://localhost:8332
2612 2011-06-23 20:36:33 <unclemantis> I have tried connecting with 8332 when i have the bitcoind -daemon running and it works fine. But when i have the bitcoind running with the testnet data directrories and using that 18333 i get a timeout
2613 2011-06-23 20:36:36 <gavinandresen> ... works for my testnet-in-a-box node
2614 2011-06-23 20:37:09 <lfm> unclemantis: try 18332
2615 2011-06-23 20:37:23 <gavinandresen> No, 8332 is the right rpc port, unless you've changed bitcoin.conf
2616 2011-06-23 20:37:29 <unclemantis> {"result":{"version":32100,"balance":4550.00000000,"blocks":210,"connections":1,"proxy":"","generate":false,"genproclimit":-1,"difficulty":1.00000000,"hashespersec":0,"testnet":true,"keypoololdest":1300081203,"paytxfee":0.00000000,"errors":""},"error":null,"id":"curltest"}
2617 2011-06-23 20:37:41 xtalmath has joined
2618 2011-06-23 20:37:44 <unclemantis> hmmm
2619 2011-06-23 20:38:00 <unclemantis> so i STILL connect with port 8332?
2620 2011-06-23 20:38:21 DukeOfURL has joined
2621 2011-06-23 20:38:33 <unclemantis> !!!!!
2622 2011-06-23 20:38:38 <unclemantis> wtf
2623 2011-06-23 20:38:39 p0s has joined
2624 2011-06-23 20:38:41 <unclemantis> it works
2625 2011-06-23 20:38:55 <lfm> ya that makes sense now
2626 2011-06-23 20:38:57 <unclemantis> i have been trying to connect to port 18333 this entire time and i didn't need to?
2627 2011-06-23 20:39:12 <unclemantis> that is just dumb of the directions to even tell me about port 18333 then
2628 2011-06-23 20:39:21 <unclemantis> gavinandresen thank you very very much
2629 2011-06-23 20:39:42 <lfm> 8333 and 18333 are the p2p port, separate from the rpc port
2630 2011-06-23 20:39:54 vonnieda has left ()
2631 2011-06-23 20:40:13 <jgarzik> unclemantis: the setup of the default client is 8332/8333 for RPC/mainnet P2P, or 8332/18333 for RPC/testnet P2P.  I cannot say whether testnet-in-a-box changes that; running two daemons, I would guess that it does change at least one of those.
2632 2011-06-23 20:40:18 Ramokk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2633 2011-06-23 20:40:44 <lfm> ya testnet in a box changes ONE of the rpc ports
2634 2011-06-23 20:40:53 Diablo-D3 has joined
2635 2011-06-23 20:40:56 <lfm> and makes one node -nlisten
2636 2011-06-23 20:41:00 <unclemantis> i can c onnect to the testnet box using 8332
2637 2011-06-23 20:41:03 <lfm> nolisten
2638 2011-06-23 20:41:18 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
2639 2011-06-23 20:41:24 <gribble> Current Blocks: 132876 | Current Difficulty: 877226.66666667 | Next Difficulty At Block: 133055 | Next Difficulty In: 179 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 17 hours, 48 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1352016.35284656
2640 2011-06-23 20:42:07 falcnor is now known as falcnor-away
2641 2011-06-23 20:42:43 <unclemantis> "unclemantis" : 0.00000000
2642 2011-06-23 20:42:48 <unclemantis> works like a cham p
2643 2011-06-23 20:42:50 <unclemantis> thank you so much folkls
2644 2011-06-23 20:42:58 <lfm> have fun
2645 2011-06-23 20:43:07 <unclemantis> works like a champ. Thank you very much folks. Thank you very much lfm and gavinandresen
2646 2011-06-23 20:43:25 * unclemantis is going to go watch a movie with the wifey. Spent all day on this
2647 2011-06-23 20:43:42 <lfm> lol
2648 2011-06-23 20:44:19 T_X has joined
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2655 2011-06-23 20:46:42 <vegard> netstat -tlnp might have solved it faster :-/
2656 2011-06-23 20:47:19 <lfm> alphabet soup
2657 2011-06-23 20:49:27 prof7bit has quit (Quit: erection reset by beer)
2658 2011-06-23 20:53:28 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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2660 2011-06-23 20:54:21 <luke-jr> anyone else seeing signs of Deepbit abusing its power?
2661 2011-06-23 20:54:41 <ionspin> luke-jr, how?
2662 2011-06-23 20:55:13 BTCTrader has quit (Quit: I am away from my computer right now.  please email me at tradebitcoin@gmail.com)
2663 2011-06-23 20:55:17 <luke-jr> ionspin: blocking other miners from getting blocks
2664 2011-06-23 20:55:23 o_0oo has joined
2665 2011-06-23 20:55:33 <ionspin> luke-jr, oh
2666 2011-06-23 20:56:01 <ionspin> luke-jr, as in invalidating them on purpose, or just pure brute power overtaking them?
2667 2011-06-23 20:56:12 <ionspin> in a race sense
2668 2011-06-23 20:56:14 zamgo has joined
2669 2011-06-23 20:56:27 <luke-jr> ionspin: on purpose
2670 2011-06-23 20:56:44 <ionspin> luke-jr, well thats a pretty serious accusation
2671 2011-06-23 20:56:50 <lfm> ya forking the block chain then using his power to make that fork dominant
2672 2011-06-23 20:56:54 <luke-jr> no accusation yet
2673 2011-06-23 20:57:05 <luke-jr> it could be coincidence
2674 2011-06-23 20:57:20 <lfm> Iv seen no evidence
2675 2011-06-23 20:58:01 <luke-jr> lfm: unusually high invalid blocks
2676 2011-06-23 20:58:04 <luke-jr> rate of*
2677 2011-06-23 20:58:33 <lfm> well even without malice, if there was a normal fork, he would tend to win it for his side
2678 2011-06-23 20:59:06 <luke-jr> yeah
2679 2011-06-23 20:59:09 <ionspin> I got one question about incoming addresses, the bitcoin client calculates 100 in advance, right? why not 1000 or 10^6? Processing power needed?
2680 2011-06-23 20:59:22 <lfm> last fork my node has seen was Block-f #132846 2011-06-23 17:10:59
2681 2011-06-23 20:59:35 <luke-jr> but these seem to be like he's waiting a minute after a block is found, and if he gets a competing one within that minute, trying to build on that
2682 2011-06-23 20:59:41 <zamgo> you can tell it how many to generate at start  (and it's not at STARTUP.. but at start of first trigger action..)
2683 2011-06-23 20:59:46 BTCTrader has joined
2684 2011-06-23 20:59:55 <iz> luke-jr: do you think it could be malicious miners on your pool?
2685 2011-06-23 21:00:00 <luke-jr> iz: impossible
2686 2011-06-23 21:00:05 <lfm> ionspin: ya it does take some cpu time
2687 2011-06-23 21:00:20 <ionspin> lfm: thanks!
2688 2011-06-23 21:00:38 x6763 has joined
2689 2011-06-23 21:01:50 devserial has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2690 2011-06-23 21:02:18 <iz> luke-jr: what if they create a merkle root for a block that matches the work you are requesting, and filter sending up the share with the solution that passes difficulty?  is the matching transaction tree the part that is impossible?
2691 2011-06-23 21:02:31 <lfm> iz: imposible
2692 2011-06-23 21:02:58 <iz> because the miner doesn't know the transaction tree, right?
2693 2011-06-23 21:03:11 <lfm> iz you cant make a merkle root to order
2694 2011-06-23 21:03:34 <iz> ah okay.. it's that unpredictable, huh?
2695 2011-06-23 21:03:46 <lfm> iz ya right, you cant know other peoples coinbase txn if they do it right
2696 2011-06-23 21:04:09 phearful has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2701 2011-06-23 21:07:36 <sipa> anyone with a dev environnement on osx?
2702 2011-06-23 21:07:48 <emock> sure
2703 2011-06-23 21:08:01 <emock> what you need?>
2704 2011-06-23 21:08:10 suriv has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2705 2011-06-23 21:08:51 <jgarzik> sipa: some bitcoin crashes reported on the forums
2706 2011-06-23 21:08:58 <jgarzik> sipa: when no network connectivity is available
2707 2011-06-23 21:08:59 <sipa> jgarzik: in 0.3.23?
2708 2011-06-23 21:09:05 <jgarzik> sipa: yes
2709 2011-06-23 21:09:12 <jgarzik> sipa: 0.3.22 is claimed to work, under those conditions
2710 2011-06-23 21:09:21 pnicholson has quit (Quit: pnicholson)
2711 2011-06-23 21:09:51 <sipa> i believe bluematt did some fix in 0.3.23 for a bug that occurred when no connections are available
2712 2011-06-23 21:10:33 <sipa> emock: try to build https://github.com/jaromil/bitcoin/tree/autotools3
2713 2011-06-23 21:10:47 <emock> okay...
2714 2011-06-23 21:11:04 <sipa> jgarzik: can you try to build on fedora?
2715 2011-06-23 21:11:58 <emock> is Lion okay?
2716 2011-06-23 21:12:13 <sipa> i have no idea :)
2717 2011-06-23 21:12:17 <kinlo> jgarzik: I just had a crash here to
2718 2011-06-23 21:12:21 erus`_ has joined
2719 2011-06-23 21:12:24 <sipa> is that .5 or .6?
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2721 2011-06-23 21:12:51 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2722 2011-06-23 21:12:52 <kinlo> jgarzik: os snowleopard, bitcoinclient 0.3.23 and just had a network issue
2723 2011-06-23 21:12:58 erus`_ is now known as erus`
2724 2011-06-23 21:13:00 <sipa> kinlo: define issue?
2725 2011-06-23 21:13:04 <sipa> crash?
2726 2011-06-23 21:13:22 <kinlo> issue in that sentence was that my network was unavailable
2727 2011-06-23 21:13:30 <emock> 10.7 sipa
2728 2011-06-23 21:13:32 <kinlo> crash is a crash yes...
2729 2011-06-23 21:13:48 <kinlo> and I have snowleopard, 10.6
2730 2011-06-23 21:13:55 <lfm> seh v or ?
2731 2011-06-23 21:13:58 <emock> sipa: automake?
2732 2011-06-23 21:14:02 <lfm> seg v or ?
2733 2011-06-23 21:14:22 <jgarzik> sipa: configure script doesn't build at all
2734 2011-06-23 21:14:36 <jgarzik> sipa: aclocal and autoconf both have complaints
2735 2011-06-23 21:14:38 <sipa> jgarzik: ow
2736 2011-06-23 21:14:44 <jgarzik> sipa: I'll look at it later
2737 2011-06-23 21:14:48 devserial has joined
2738 2011-06-23 21:14:59 <sipa> emock: yes, autoreconf -i, then autoconf, then ./configure, make
2739 2011-06-23 21:15:16 <jgarzik> sipa: needs an autogen.sh for canonical script rebuild too
2740 2011-06-23 21:15:52 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2741 2011-06-23 21:16:03 <kinlo> let me see if I can build the bitcoin client
2742 2011-06-23 21:16:12 lurker has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2743 2011-06-23 21:16:22 <sipa> jgarzik: i don't know much about autoconf, i just want this merged :)
2744 2011-06-23 21:16:30 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2745 2011-06-23 21:16:30 agent-x has left ()
2746 2011-06-23 21:16:35 glassresistor has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2747 2011-06-23 21:16:51 <emock> sipa: all went well until:
2748 2011-06-23 21:16:53 <lfm> bad autoconf is worse than none
2749 2011-06-23 21:16:56 <emock> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.
2750 2011-06-23 21:17:08 Teslah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2751 2011-06-23 21:17:43 <emock> gotta head home...
2752 2011-06-23 21:18:04 <sipa> emock: did you run configure?
2753 2011-06-23 21:18:12 <emock> yea
2754 2011-06-23 21:18:16 <emock> configure finished fine
2755 2011-06-23 21:18:18 <sipa> lfm: of course, that's why it needs to be tested
2756 2011-06-23 21:18:24 <sipa> hmm, strange
2757 2011-06-23 21:18:30 <emock> oh, wait…  no it didn't
2758 2011-06-23 21:18:39 <emock> ./configure: line 7126: syntax error near unexpected token `SSL,'
2759 2011-06-23 21:18:47 <emock> ./configure: line 7126: `PKG_CHECK_MODULES(SSL, libssl >= 0.9, :,'
2760 2011-06-23 21:19:02 <lfm> ah!
2761 2011-06-23 21:19:06 ericmock has quit (Quit: ericmock)
2762 2011-06-23 21:20:36 <lfm> does apple have special libssl?
2763 2011-06-23 21:20:49 <vragnaroda> apple is just special
2764 2011-06-23 21:21:04 <egecko> shortbus special perhaps
2765 2011-06-23 21:21:06 <emock> not sure...
2766 2011-06-23 21:21:12 * emock will be back in 30 minutes
2767 2011-06-23 21:21:13 <egecko> :)
2768 2011-06-23 21:21:23 <lfm> vragnaroda: you mean as use in the phrase "special ed"?
2769 2011-06-23 21:21:48 <vragnaroda> lfm: yes, sometimes
2770 2011-06-23 21:21:53 <upb> sipa: configure finishes fine without DBD and compilation fails, shouldnt this be addressed ?:P
2771 2011-06-23 21:21:58 <vragnaroda> (and i'm on a mac)
2772 2011-06-23 21:22:10 <upb> BDB*
2773 2011-06-23 21:22:10 <sipa> upb: good to know
2774 2011-06-23 21:22:19 Nachtwind has joined
2775 2011-06-23 21:22:29 <Nachtwind> hi
2776 2011-06-23 21:22:49 <Nachtwind> short question - did anyone manage to make or run bitcoind on centos 5.4?
2777 2011-06-23 21:22:50 <lfm> Nachtwind: hi
2778 2011-06-23 21:23:03 <Nachtwind> been biting my teeth out for a few hours
2779 2011-06-23 21:23:06 traviscj has joined
2780 2011-06-23 21:23:27 RobboNZ has joined
2781 2011-06-23 21:23:48 <lfm> some centos people were doing a "special" build for it I think
2782 2011-06-23 21:24:05 <Nachtwind> could be the one i found on the forums...
2783 2011-06-23 21:24:15 <Nachtwind> which was x64 only i'm afraid and i am running x86
2784 2011-06-23 21:24:23 <Nachtwind> darn ><
2785 2011-06-23 21:25:05 <lfm> Nachtwind: well they may have some clues for building it then
2786 2011-06-23 21:25:15 <Nachtwind> and if i trun the prebuild binaries i get "./bitcoind: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `GLIBCXX_3.4.11' not found (required by ./bitcoind)"
2787 2011-06-23 21:25:43 <Nachtwind> yet i am kind of new to centos or rather YUM and have no idea how to force the installation of a newer glibc - anyone here who can give me a hint/hand?
2788 2011-06-23 21:25:43 <lfm> Nachtwind: thats the c++ standard libs
2789 2011-06-23 21:25:47 <sipa> seems you have an earlier libstdc++ than the one required by bitcoind
2790 2011-06-23 21:26:27 <lfm> Nachtwind: I think youd need to rebuild bitcoin
2791 2011-06-23 21:26:51 <Nachtwind> well got libstdc++-4.1.2-50.el5.i386 here... from what i understand ,0)
2792 2011-06-23 21:27:06 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2793 2011-06-23 21:27:09 <Nachtwind> ok.. rebuilding.. i was afraid someone said that ,0)
2794 2011-06-23 21:30:00 <lfm> my ubuntu here has /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6.0.10
2795 2011-06-23 21:30:26 zamgo has left ()
2796 2011-06-23 21:30:57 pakaran has joined
2797 2011-06-23 21:32:02 <Nachtwind> hmmmm... i thought i had boost on my sys.. darn
2798 2011-06-23 21:32:13 <Nachtwind> main.h:854: error: 'BOOST_FOREACH' was not declared in this scope
2799 2011-06-23 21:32:31 <Nachtwind> Package boost-1.33.1-10.el5.i386 already installed and latest version
2800 2011-06-23 21:32:36 <Nachtwind> any hints?
2801 2011-06-23 21:33:48 <jrmithdobbs> stop using rhel
2802 2011-06-23 21:33:54 <jrmithdobbs> or centos whichever
2803 2011-06-23 21:34:13 <jrmithdobbs> Nachtwind: you're going to have to fix the specified libraries to link against because of how rh builds boost
2804 2011-06-23 21:34:19 <jrmithdobbs> in the makefile
2805 2011-06-23 21:34:49 <Nachtwind> uck...
2806 2011-06-23 21:34:53 <jrmithdobbs> actually whoa, 1.33? you need to upgrade to at least 1.40
2807 2011-06-23 21:34:54 <Nachtwind> now that sounds hard ,0)
2808 2011-06-23 21:35:11 <Nachtwind> the problem i am stuck on a few _old_ systems here
2809 2011-06-23 21:35:15 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
2810 2011-06-23 21:35:19 <lfm> just deinstall boost than build the new one
2811 2011-06-23 21:35:45 <lfm> I should say "just"
2812 2011-06-23 21:35:53 <lfm> shouldnt
2813 2011-06-23 21:35:54 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
2814 2011-06-23 21:36:04 <Nachtwind> i can choose between: Ubuntu 9, Debian Lenny, Centos 5.4(updated to 5.6) Fedora 11, Gentoo 2008, Gentoo 10
2815 2011-06-23 21:36:18 Soak has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2816 2011-06-23 21:36:34 <lfm> whay not a current one?
2817 2011-06-23 21:37:07 quellhorst has joined
2818 2011-06-23 21:37:10 <Nachtwind> i asked that the support for my VServer a few dozen times already.. no answer yet that was satisfactioning
2819 2011-06-23 21:37:43 devserial has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2820 2011-06-23 21:37:47 <lfm> oic
2821 2011-06-23 21:37:49 ericmock has joined
2822 2011-06-23 21:38:05 <lfm> try debian
2823 2011-06-23 21:38:25 devserial has joined
2824 2011-06-23 21:38:26 <Nachtwind> used lenny for a while, but was unable to build on lenny either
2825 2011-06-23 21:38:32 <lfm> k
2826 2011-06-23 21:38:48 <Nachtwind> ok, reinstalling on lenny
2827 2011-06-23 21:39:49 b1U\-\a10 has joined
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2830 2011-06-23 21:39:58 meelu has joined
2831 2011-06-23 21:40:14 <b1U\-\a10> And developers prepared to clone bitcoin yet?
2832 2011-06-23 21:40:15 denisx has joined
2833 2011-06-23 21:40:34 <b1U\-\a10> You don't have much time left before they'll put out hundreds all at once.
2834 2011-06-23 21:40:44 Nachtwind_ has joined
2835 2011-06-23 21:40:44 <b1U\-\a10> I wrote up my position paper.
2836 2011-06-23 21:40:51 <sipa> ?
2837 2011-06-23 21:40:52 <ericmock> and us adding more helps how?
2838 2011-06-23 21:41:21 <Nachtwind_> ok.. re
2839 2011-06-23 21:41:37 <Nachtwind_> forgot that reinstalling my server would kill the BNC i am using ,0)
2840 2011-06-23 21:41:40 <lfm> b1U\-\a10: huh, can we read your paper?
2841 2011-06-23 21:41:53 <b1U\-\a10> I don't have the balls to put it online
2842 2011-06-23 21:42:01 <sipa> or at least know what it is about?
2843 2011-06-23 21:42:02 <b1U\-\a10> can I transfer an html file here?
2844 2011-06-23 21:42:16 <b1U\-\a10> I outline what need to happen to protect bitcion.
2845 2011-06-23 21:42:21 <lfm> well we cant really worry about it then can we
2846 2011-06-23 21:42:34 <b1U\-\a10> all you have to do it fork it twice
2847 2011-06-23 21:42:45 <b1U\-\a10> aren't you developers?
2848 2011-06-23 21:42:48 Nachtwind has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2849 2011-06-23 21:42:53 <b1U\-\a10> I'd do it but I'm a finance guy
2850 2011-06-23 21:42:55 <b1U\-\a10> not a developer
2851 2011-06-23 21:43:12 <sipa> how the the number of times your fork it matter?
2852 2011-06-23 21:43:14 <sipa> *does
2853 2011-06-23 21:43:16 <b1U\-\a10> I tell you now
2854 2011-06-23 21:43:20 <b1U\-\a10> yes
2855 2011-06-23 21:43:31 <b1U\-\a10> if they fork it a thousand times all at once it will be bad.
2856 2011-06-23 21:43:41 <b1U\-\a10> if we fork it twice right now it will be good
2857 2011-06-23 21:43:50 <sipa> i have no idea what you mean
2858 2011-06-23 21:43:59 <b1U\-\a10> it's oligarchy versus straight competitioon
2859 2011-06-23 21:44:06 <b1U\-\a10> it's an economic concept
2860 2011-06-23 21:44:11 <b1U\-\a10> read
2861 2011-06-23 21:44:14 <b1U\-\a10> I'll put it here
2862 2011-06-23 21:44:17 <b1U\-\a10> copy it if you like
2863 2011-06-23 21:44:21 dbasch_ has joined
2864 2011-06-23 21:44:23 o_0oo_ has joined
2865 2011-06-23 21:44:30 <b1U\-\a10> I can't tranfer a basic text file huh?
2866 2011-06-23 21:44:32 segfault64 has joined
2867 2011-06-23 21:44:37 <lfm> b1U\-\a10: so you want 3 competeing bitcoins?
2868 2011-06-23 21:44:48 o_0oo has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2869 2011-06-23 21:44:50 <b1U\-\a10> Yep, 3 is the min
2870 2011-06-23 21:44:52 <sipa> and you mean forking the block chain?
2871 2011-06-23 21:44:56 <sipa> or forking the client?
2872 2011-06-23 21:44:57 <b1U\-\a10> to create a pareto optimality
2873 2011-06-23 21:45:01 <b1U\-\a10> and a barrier to entry
2874 2011-06-23 21:45:10 <b1U\-\a10> it WILL be forked by the other team
2875 2011-06-23 21:45:10 <lfm> I think he wants 3 competeing currencies
2876 2011-06-23 21:45:14 <b1U\-\a10> thousands of times.
2877 2011-06-23 21:45:22 knightrage has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2878 2011-06-23 21:45:29 <b1U\-\a10> they will use this to create phychological warfare
2879 2011-06-23 21:45:35 <sipa> you know there are already forked chains, right?
2880 2011-06-23 21:45:39 <b1U\-\a10> shake the public confidence
2881 2011-06-23 21:45:49 <b1U\-\a10> they will move soon to gain tracion from the hack
2882 2011-06-23 21:45:50 <sipa> there is namecoin, testnet, weeds
2883 2011-06-23 21:45:51 <b1U\-\a10> they are on this shit
2884 2011-06-23 21:45:59 <b1U\-\a10> they want it to die
2885 2011-06-23 21:46:00 <ericmock> I think mtgox hack shook the public confidence
2886 2011-06-23 21:46:02 <b1U\-\a10> desperately
2887 2011-06-23 21:46:03 <lfm> public has very little confidence in bitcoin in any case
2888 2011-06-23 21:46:18 <b1U\-\a10> but we can make it defensible for the long term
2889 2011-06-23 21:46:21 <b1U\-\a10> here:
2890 2011-06-23 21:46:38 _ape has joined
2891 2011-06-23 21:46:44 <b1U\-\a10> my disertation, copy if you like
2892 2011-06-23 21:46:56 spirals has joined
2893 2011-06-23 21:47:03 <ericmock> start a new channel and just copy paste what you want
2894 2011-06-23 21:47:10 <ericmock> if it's just text
2895 2011-06-23 21:47:15 <b1U\-\a10> k
2896 2011-06-23 21:47:26 <lfm> or pastebin.com
2897 2011-06-23 21:47:27 <b1U\-\a10> #SaveBitcoin
2898 2011-06-23 21:47:33 <b1U\-\a10> go there
2899 2011-06-23 21:48:59 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: good news, we've already forked bitcoin four and a half times.
2900 2011-06-23 21:49:04 <gmaxwell> b1U\-\a10: vitory.
2901 2011-06-23 21:49:08 bosch has joined
2902 2011-06-23 21:49:24 <sipa> b1U\-\a10: sorry, i'm not impressed
2903 2011-06-23 21:49:41 <ericmock> wants to see this dissertation
2904 2011-06-23 21:49:42 <gmaxwell> Well, actually three and a half.
2905 2011-06-23 21:49:53 <sipa> the only reason a fork can succeed from the network effect established by the current chain, is iif it offers clear advantages
2906 2011-06-23 21:50:02 <gmaxwell> Where is the paper?
2907 2011-06-23 21:50:06 <lfm> gmaxwell: and how many more we havnt heard from yet eh?
2908 2011-06-23 21:50:39 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
2909 2011-06-23 21:50:52 <gmaxwell> "Is your account secure? Click here for more info if you want to keep your coins." < btcguild is using weird scare tactics.
2910 2011-06-23 21:51:01 <gmaxwell> (to get people to change their passwords)
2911 2011-06-23 21:51:08 segfault64 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2912 2011-06-23 21:51:31 <bosch> hi there ...
2913 2011-06-23 21:51:38 <lfm> bosch: hi
2914 2011-06-23 21:51:48 mosimo has joined
2915 2011-06-23 21:51:49 underscor has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2916 2011-06-23 21:52:28 <bosch> just a question ... if i got the latest anouncements at mt.gox right the portal will open again in 5hours10min ???
2917 2011-06-23 21:52:49 <BTCTrader> btcguild looks nasty
2918 2011-06-23 21:52:54 <lfm> bosch: you know as much as we do then
2919 2011-06-23 21:52:57 <BTCTrader> dont even have a legit ssl cert
2920 2011-06-23 21:53:20 o_0oo_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2921 2011-06-23 21:53:24 o_0oo has joined
2922 2011-06-23 21:53:33 <bosch> ok .. the reason i'm asking is because they mentioned an email explaining the login procedure being send ?!
2923 2011-06-23 21:53:33 f33x has joined
2924 2011-06-23 21:53:43 <bosch> i reclaimed my account but have not got it?
2925 2011-06-23 21:54:02 <sipa> nobody got their account yet
2926 2011-06-23 21:54:27 <ali1234> BTCTrader: yes they do. someone must be running a mitm attack on you
2927 2011-06-23 21:54:54 <BTCTrader> why do you say that?
2928 2011-06-23 21:55:02 <gmaxwell> Because they have a valid cert for me.
2929 2011-06-23 21:55:04 <bosch> sipa: i just wondered because of what they wrote on their ticker: Between now and tomorrow at 3:00 GMT you should receive an email with instructions on how to access your account, provided you have successfully completed the reclaim process
2930 2011-06-23 21:55:15 <lfm> valid != legit
2931 2011-06-23 21:55:30 _ape has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2932 2011-06-23 21:55:47 <ali1234> legit = signed be a recognised CA, does not throw up a self signed warning
2933 2011-06-23 21:56:09 eoss has joined
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2935 2011-06-23 21:56:37 <BTCTrader> hmm it shows a godaddy cert
2936 2011-06-23 21:56:48 <lfm> BTCTrader: your ca certs old maybe?
2937 2011-06-23 21:57:11 <BTCTrader> i tried it in a brand new chrome and safari
2938 2011-06-23 21:57:43 <lfm> whats wrong with godaddy cert?
2939 2011-06-23 21:57:57 <BTCTrader> idk, but my browsers dont like it
2940 2011-06-23 21:58:12 <BTCTrader> "signed by an unknown authority"
2941 2011-06-23 21:58:33 <gmaxwell> BTCTrader: what browser are you using?
2942 2011-06-23 21:58:39 <BTCTrader> chrome/safari
2943 2011-06-23 21:59:08 <bosch> lfm: ok. so hopefully the mails anounced will be send out within the next 5 hours ...
2944 2011-06-23 21:59:25 <gmaxwell> the fingerprint of the cert ends with 36:F2:6A:95
2945 2011-06-23 21:59:40 <gmaxwell> (I'd copy the whole thing but firefox won't let you copy and paste it.
2946 2011-06-23 22:00:14 bosch has left ()
2947 2011-06-23 22:00:40 <BTCTrader> yeah i am seeing that gmaxwell
2948 2011-06-23 22:00:40 <ali1234> may be related: http://blog.boxedice.com/2009/05/11/godaddy-ssl-certificates-and-cannot-verify-identity-on-macsafari/
2949 2011-06-23 22:00:49 czaanja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2950 2011-06-23 22:01:34 <BTCTrader> To fix this, you need to use gd_bundle.crt and provide it as an option for SSLCertificateChainFile in Apache in your SSL config files:
2951 2011-06-23 22:01:40 <BTCTrader> == not fun
2952 2011-06-23 22:02:26 <ali1234> easy enough if you a server admin
2953 2011-06-23 22:02:44 <lfm> BTCTrader: my firefox sez it was verified by GoDaddy also but did not object at all
2954 2011-06-23 22:04:36 tandy80 has joined
2955 2011-06-23 22:04:46 <lfm> firfox when I ask for detains sez btcguild is "run by (unknown)" thats all I have noticed odd so far
2956 2011-06-23 22:05:13 <lfm> This web site does not supply ownership information.
2957 2011-06-23 22:06:28 Wuked has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2958 2011-06-23 22:07:05 LightRider is now known as afk!~LightRide@unaffiliated/lightrider|LightRider
2959 2011-06-23 22:07:21 <lfm> OU = http://certificates.godaddy.com/repository
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2973 2011-06-23 22:20:36 <xtalmath> I am trying to better understand the reason why bitcoin is linked against 3 threading libraries: boost thread, pthread posix, gthread (gnome ?) I find the following APIs http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_46_1/doc/html/thread/thread_management.html , http://cursuri.cs.pub.ro/~apc/2003/resources/pthreads/uguide/document.htm , http://developer.gnome.org/glib/2.28/glib-Threads.html
2974 2011-06-23 22:21:14 <xtalmath> not sure if the last api is right since its glib = libg? while the linked library is libgthread-2.0
2975 2011-06-23 22:21:49 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2976 2011-06-23 22:22:44 <xtalmath> now I am trying to find calls of each api in the Bitcoin code with grep, I can find pthread and boost::thread calls, but havent found libg thread or gthread calls (not sure what to look for, not sure if the 3rd api above is right)
2977 2011-06-23 22:22:59 <xtalmath> what is the reason of this heterogenous threading support?
2978 2011-06-23 22:23:12 BlueMattBot has joined
2979 2011-06-23 22:23:37 <JRWR> multiplatform?
2980 2011-06-23 22:23:45 joepie91 has joined
2981 2011-06-23 22:23:56 <xtalmath> and can someone point me to a bitcoin file that uses gthread-2.0 (as seen dynamically linked into bitcoin)
2982 2011-06-23 22:24:35 <xtalmath> JRWR: i look at makefile.unix
2983 2011-06-23 22:25:13 <sipa> i'll remove gthread and see what breaks :)
2984 2011-06-23 22:26:10 defaultman has joined
2985 2011-06-23 22:26:41 stalled has joined
2986 2011-06-23 22:27:20 <xtalmath> also, grep with 'pthread' and 'boost::thread' give different amount of hits and different files, so I dont believe theres macros around them for multiplatform support
2987 2011-06-23 22:28:22 <xtalmath> sipa: not sure if that would break compile-time or runtime on the specific supported platform if thats the explanation
2988 2011-06-23 22:28:31 jsnyder has joined
2989 2011-06-23 22:28:43 <sipa> my guess that some other linked library depends on it
2990 2011-06-23 22:29:07 <xtalmath> theres real lack of documentation, thats why Im investigating the code, would like to write bunch of articles on internal workings
2991 2011-06-23 22:29:37 b1U\-\a10 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2993 2011-06-23 22:31:48 ionspin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2994 2011-06-23 22:32:05 <sipa> ok,  bitcoind just builds without gthread
2995 2011-06-23 22:32:38 KBme has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2996 2011-06-23 22:32:50 o_0oo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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2999 2011-06-23 22:35:32 <upb> if another linked library depends on it, you dont need to lin it
3000 2011-06-23 22:35:54 <xtalmath> could you let gavin know and investigate the matter better or are we all fiddlers, who are only interested in specific sections of code and shy away from "top level centralized archaic computer science cruft"?
3001 2011-06-23 22:35:57 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3002 2011-06-23 22:36:31 <xtalmath> upb: thats what I thought all the time
3003 2011-06-23 22:36:38 <sipa> it depends
3004 2011-06-23 22:36:51 <xtalmath> on?
3005 2011-06-23 22:36:57 <sipa> anyway, i'm not going to fix this now, as we're moving the autotools anyway
3006 2011-06-23 22:37:06 defaultman has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3007 2011-06-23 22:38:04 <xtalmath> could we investigate the reason why pthread is mixed with boost thread? see ./json/json_spirit_reader_template.h://#define BOOST_SPIRIT_THREADSAFE  // uncomment for multithreaded use, requires linking to boost.thread
3008 2011-06-23 22:40:06 rgm3 has joined
3009 2011-06-23 22:40:10 vokoda has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3010 2011-06-23 22:40:22 <rgm3> I don't think the client should be generating while it's verifying the block chain.
3011 2011-06-23 22:40:56 DiSTANT187 has quit ()
3012 2011-06-23 22:41:00 <xtalmath> note that the line is NOT uncommented and NOTE the comment after it
3013 2011-06-23 22:41:25 hachque has joined
3014 2011-06-23 22:41:31 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3015 2011-06-23 22:42:32 earthmeLon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3016 2011-06-23 22:42:55 <xtalmath> what parts of boost are we actually using? or plan to use? could we drop either boost or pthread library?
3017 2011-06-23 22:43:04 <Diablo-D3> DROP BOOST
3018 2011-06-23 22:43:05 <Diablo-D3> DO IT
3019 2011-06-23 22:43:07 <Diablo-D3> BOOST IS EVIL
3020 2011-06-23 22:43:17 <Diablo-D3> DEATH TO BOOST
3021 2011-06-23 22:43:21 <coderrr> BOOST_FOREACH
3022 2011-06-23 22:44:09 DiSTANT187 has joined
3023 2011-06-23 22:44:18 phatsphere has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3024 2011-06-23 22:44:49 Teslah has joined
3025 2011-06-23 22:45:21 <xtalmath> alternatively shouldnt we use openmp? GCC's built in threading?
3026 2011-06-23 22:45:57 Nachtwind_ has quit ()
3027 2011-06-23 22:45:59 <xtalmath> note that I have little to no experience in threading, just think that if the codebase can be simplified more people will actively develop
3028 2011-06-23 22:46:22 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3029 2011-06-23 22:46:23 Incitatus has joined
3030 2011-06-23 22:46:24 <xtalmath> will also be easier to refactor afterwards, looks like a clusterfuck now
3031 2011-06-23 22:46:25 <Diablo-D3> xtalmath: openmp is shit
3032 2011-06-23 22:46:29 <gjs278> yeah it is
3033 2011-06-23 22:46:31 <erus`> developers developers developers developers
3034 2011-06-23 22:46:32 <Diablo-D3> just use normal fucking C threads.
3035 2011-06-23 22:46:35 <gjs278> mpich2 is garbage
3036 2011-06-23 22:46:54 <ericmock> yea, lets run the client on clusters
3037 2011-06-23 22:47:08 <Diablo-D3> threads are not some deep magic dragons be here shit, dude
3038 2011-06-23 22:47:29 <gjs278> what threadning even happens
3039 2011-06-23 22:47:36 <gjs278> it backgrounds a thread for blockgen
3040 2011-06-23 22:47:44 <gjs278> what else
3041 2011-06-23 22:47:49 <xtalmath> I hate threading, and have always avoided it, thats why I try to understand why we mix 2 threading libraries
3042 2011-06-23 22:47:53 <ericmock> it background the whole thing...
3043 2011-06-23 22:48:07 <xtalmath> theres at least 3 threads
3044 2011-06-23 22:48:19 <ericmock> so the UI can show up before finishing loading all the db stuff
3045 2011-06-23 22:48:43 Nicksasa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3046 2011-06-23 22:48:47 <xtalmath> im not sure apart from generating thread, which responsibilities are carried by which thread
3047 2011-06-23 22:48:48 <gjs278> when I wrote a file before they told me to use boost
3048 2011-06-23 22:49:16 <xtalmath> gjs278: who is they?
3049 2011-06-23 22:49:20 TheMaskedMan has joined
3050 2011-06-23 22:49:26 <gjs278> the developers developers developers developers of bitcoin
3051 2011-06-23 22:49:27 <sipa> rpc is a separate thread
3052 2011-06-23 22:49:33 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
3053 2011-06-23 22:49:36 <sacarlson> I think I might have  posibility for securing micro net block chains,  if you had only trusted licensed minners.   I'm not sure how you would deligate who was allowed to be a minner yet but at least when there was foul play you could at least ban bad minners and only provide them to know trusted parties
3054 2011-06-23 22:49:40 <xtalmath> being gavin?
3055 2011-06-23 22:49:47 <gjs278> not him exactly but one of them
3056 2011-06-23 22:49:56 <xtalmath> sipa: is net and rpc carried by the same thread?
3057 2011-06-23 22:50:02 <sipa> xtalmath: no
3058 2011-06-23 22:50:13 Geebus has joined
3059 2011-06-23 22:50:23 <jsnyder> I'm curious whether it is normal for the Mac build of Bitcoin to take several minutes to launch?
3060 2011-06-23 22:50:34 <sipa> jsnyder: if your disk is slow, yes
3061 2011-06-23 22:50:51 <gjs278> http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5376/screenshotliv.png
3062 2011-06-23 22:50:56 <sipa> there needs to be a 'bitcoin is loading' think
3063 2011-06-23 22:50:57 mrh00d has joined
3064 2011-06-23 22:50:58 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3065 2011-06-23 22:50:58 <gjs278> to delete a pid file I was told to use boost
3066 2011-06-23 22:51:02 <xtalmath> so theres mining, ui, net, rpc, ... and main thread? does main thread finish after init or does it keep waiting for blocks?
3067 2011-06-23 22:51:41 <mrh00d> Hello im looking to hire a developer who can create my bitcoin poker site
3068 2011-06-23 22:51:48 <jsnyder> sipa: not terribly slow (5400 rpm, 500GB in a laptop), but it's probably fragmented.  based on sampling the process it looks like it's doing db transactions, very low cpu usage though
3069 2011-06-23 22:52:05 <sipa> yes
3070 2011-06-23 22:52:13 Nicksasa has joined
3071 2011-06-23 22:52:29 <sipa> xtalmath: block download is just done by network
3072 2011-06-23 22:52:41 <gjs278> umm
3073 2011-06-23 22:52:45 <gjs278> 5400 rpm is terribly slow
3074 2011-06-23 22:52:48 <gjs278> you cant get much slower
3075 2011-06-23 22:52:53 WakiMiko has joined
3076 2011-06-23 22:52:53 <gjs278> unless you were like running on an sd card
3077 2011-06-23 22:52:59 <xtalmath> sipa: what thread does the checking of new blocks?
3078 2011-06-23 22:53:07 <gmaxwell> in a laptop.. 4200 rpm.
3079 2011-06-23 22:53:29 <sipa> xtalmath: network
3080 2011-06-23 22:53:30 <upb> lol gjs278
3081 2011-06-23 22:53:49 <xtalmath> would it make sense to  make the group files in the src directory according to thread kind?
3082 2011-06-23 22:53:50 <upb> but yes its true, it abstracts out the difference :)
3083 2011-06-23 22:53:51 <jsnyder> gjs278: depends on transaction types, contiguous large reads and writes can be reasonably fast, but anything requiring a lot of seeking is, of course, terrible :-)
3084 2011-06-23 22:54:04 <sipa> xtalmath: no
3085 2011-06-23 22:54:04 <doublec> mrh00d: how much are you looking to pay?
3086 2011-06-23 22:54:18 <sipa> xtalmath: since they all call eachother
3087 2011-06-23 22:54:34 <xtalmath> i.e. src/init, src/net, src/rpc, src/ui
3088 2011-06-23 22:54:43 <upb> the most sensible method is to get rid of the other files and just put them all into main.cpp
3089 2011-06-23 22:54:52 <xtalmath> why would they not be able to call each other in different directories?
3090 2011-06-23 22:54:57 mtrlt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3091 2011-06-23 22:55:12 <upb> since it cointains methods from different classes anyway
3092 2011-06-23 22:55:24 mtrlt has joined
3093 2011-06-23 22:55:58 <jsnyder> In any case, it's not a bug, which is basically what I wanted to know :-)
3094 2011-06-23 22:56:26 <sipa> xtalmath: you just can't separate them per thread
3095 2011-06-23 22:56:45 brianml has joined
3096 2011-06-23 22:56:52 Teslah has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3097 2011-06-23 22:57:09 <sipa> main, net, db, init, key, util, uint256 and serialize are probably used by +- all threads
3098 2011-06-23 22:57:13 Teslah has joined
3099 2011-06-23 22:57:34 underscor has joined
3100 2011-06-23 22:57:34 <xtalmath> since most people learn non threaded neuman programming before multithreading, it seems to make much more sense to me to make top level seperation thread, just like you dont mix 2 programs codes simply because they call each other now and then
3101 2011-06-23 22:57:54 <xtalmath> i realize theres a difference between threads and processes
3102 2011-06-23 22:57:59 <xtalmath> in that threads share same memory
3103 2011-06-23 22:58:07 <sipa> there are much more important code cleanup things to do first
3104 2011-06-23 22:58:10 <xtalmath> functionality would be much clearer no
3105 2011-06-23 22:58:29 <upb> false
3106 2011-06-23 22:58:32 Ramen has left ()
3107 2011-06-23 22:58:33 <xtalmath> please give examples of such cleanups, I might do them
3108 2011-06-23 22:58:50 <upb> its tedious to work on many files while developing a project, the best is if all the code is in one file
3109 2011-06-23 22:59:01 <upb> thats why there are just a few cpp files
3110 2011-06-23 22:59:08 <xtalmath> otherwise states: if functionality is not clearer by seperating threads, then probably the code wasnt factored right into threads in first place
3111 2011-06-23 22:59:23 <sipa> i disagree
3112 2011-06-23 22:59:54 <xtalmath> where did "otherwise states:" come from
3113 2011-06-23 23:00:02 <sipa> all code that manages common datastructures is common to all threads accessing those datastructures, eg.
3114 2011-06-23 23:00:19 MC-Eeepc has joined
3115 2011-06-23 23:00:20 ar4s has quit (Quit: zZzZZz)
3116 2011-06-23 23:00:45 <sipa> and bitcoin is 90% about managing data structures
3117 2011-06-23 23:01:50 <upb> yep, thus all threads should be in the same file as the code implementing those structures
3118 2011-06-23 23:01:58 <upb> which is main.cpp
3119 2011-06-23 23:02:45 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3120 2011-06-23 23:02:50 <sipa> now i definitely disagree :)
3121 2011-06-23 23:03:12 <xtalmath> do all lines of code calling threading functions contain "thread" ?
3122 2011-06-23 23:03:26 <sipa> i suppose
3123 2011-06-23 23:03:30 <kfr> I tend to try to keep every source file below 15 KiB
3124 2011-06-23 23:03:33 <kfr> If not less
3125 2011-06-23 23:03:49 <ericmock> it all depends on the IDE you're using...
3126 2011-06-23 23:04:00 MC1984 has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
3127 2011-06-23 23:04:11 <ericmock> if vim is your preferred coding utility, well then one file is good
3128 2011-06-23 23:04:16 <kunnis> ericmock  Not just that, but also what plugins you have.  Resharper for VS makes a huge diff.
3129 2011-06-23 23:04:26 <WakiMiko> what is the difference between getblockcount and getblocknumber?
3130 2011-06-23 23:04:27 <kfr> ericmock no, it also increases compilation time
3131 2011-06-23 23:04:35 <upb> kfr: wtf
3132 2011-06-23 23:04:55 <kfr> upb: When you modify a 200 KiB file, then you need to recompile all of it
3133 2011-06-23 23:04:58 <xtalmath> please go to the source dir and do [  grep -r "thread" .  ] if you ignore the readme and makefiles theres very little threadrelated code
3134 2011-06-23 23:05:04 <upb> ofcourse! to make sure you didnt make a mistake
3135 2011-06-23 23:05:06 <xtalmath> a lot of them are comments
3136 2011-06-23 23:05:11 <kfr> If it's split up into lots of smaller files, then rebuilds are faster
3137 2011-06-23 23:05:15 <upb> if you just recompile one file it might compile ok but segfault later
3138 2011-06-23 23:05:17 <kfr> Because you only need to rebuild 15-30 KiB of code
3139 2011-06-23 23:05:26 <upb> rebuilds NEED to rebuild everything
3140 2011-06-23 23:05:36 MC-Eeepc is now known as MC1984
3141 2011-06-23 23:05:43 <upb> like now, if you change one header the while bitcoin is rebuilt to make sure everything is in order
3142 2011-06-23 23:05:46 <upb> which is good :)
3143 2011-06-23 23:05:49 <sipa> no
3144 2011-06-23 23:05:51 <sipa> it's bad
3145 2011-06-23 23:06:02 <sipa> and it's because every source file includes every f*cking header
3146 2011-06-23 23:06:19 BaltarNZ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3147 2011-06-23 23:06:21 <kunnis> upb   That's considered bad form for most large apps.  Though bitcoin is nowhere near a large app.
3148 2011-06-23 23:06:39 rynx has joined
3149 2011-06-23 23:06:42 <sipa> if you have a nice separation between the source files, you know you don't need to recompile everything when something small changes
3150 2011-06-23 23:06:52 <sipa> of course for a full build you always rebuild from scratch, to be sure
3151 2011-06-23 23:06:56 <upb> dunno maybe im misunderstanding something but in my view getting rid of the extra cpp files would be better
3152 2011-06-23 23:06:57 nidefawl has joined
3153 2011-06-23 23:06:57 <sipa> but while developing... no need
3154 2011-06-23 23:07:16 <upb> also consolidating every header in headers.h so we end up with main.cpp and headers.h, simple
3155 2011-06-23 23:07:22 <lfm> and try to avoid touching the .h files
3156 2011-06-23 23:07:36 <xtalmath> ok will somebody please help me be constructive? I want to find out *which threads run, *what their call trees are to find overlapping code, *see how little or much this is and try make threads more independent
3157 2011-06-23 23:07:41 <ericmock> ugh, headers.h sux
3158 2011-06-23 23:07:44 <lfm> cuz some of the code is actually in .h files (the wonders of c++)
3159 2011-06-23 23:07:56 <sipa> xtalmath: don't try to separate threads, try to separate the code
3160 2011-06-23 23:07:59 <ericmock> hpp sux too
3161 2011-06-23 23:08:01 wolfspraul has joined
3162 2011-06-23 23:08:19 <sipa> like wallet handling, memory pool handling, block database handling
3163 2011-06-23 23:08:25 <xtalmath> theres tools to find call trees but I dont believe they will be able to generate a call tree for threads
3164 2011-06-23 23:08:36 wolfspraul has quit (Client Quit)
3165 2011-06-23 23:09:46 rgm3 has quit (Quit: rgm3)
3166 2011-06-23 23:09:56 <ericmock> if anyone wants to alpha test CocoaBitcoin d/l here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1041468/CocoaBitcoin.app.zip) and come to #bitcoin-dev-cocoa
3167 2011-06-23 23:10:53 <ericmock> don't run until you get some info from me ;-)
3168 2011-06-23 23:11:59 <upb> xtalmath: i have to admit i was trolling, you have good points. but i think you will never be able to do this restructuring
3169 2011-06-23 23:12:36 T_X has joined
3170 2011-06-23 23:14:13 <xtalmath> is it possible to take a c++ code block and make ctags/cscope/cflow interprete it as a function? this way it would be easier generate call trees for threads no?
3171 2011-06-23 23:14:22 ezl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3172 2011-06-23 23:16:04 Pinion has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3173 2011-06-23 23:16:23 DiSTANT187 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3174 2011-06-23 23:16:52 <kfr> <lfm> cuz some of the code is actually in .h files (the wonders of c++)
3175 2011-06-23 23:17:03 <kfr> In the new standard that is no longer necessary IIRC
3176 2011-06-23 23:17:06 <xtalmath> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2170222/pthread-vs-boostthread
3177 2011-06-23 23:17:12 <kfr> Templates can now be put into .cpp files
3178 2011-06-23 23:17:18 ne0futur has quit (Quit: leaving)
3179 2011-06-23 23:18:01 <kfr> Or something like that
3180 2011-06-23 23:18:14 <kfr> Although I'm not entirely certain how that works at a lower level
3181 2011-06-23 23:18:38 <xtalmath> the stack overflow link :"Which particular functionality can't you access through Boost? pthread attributes - priorities, etc."
3182 2011-06-23 23:18:38 <xtalmath> ./util.h:    // It's unclear if it's even possible to change thread priorities on Linux,
3183 2011-06-23 23:18:38 <xtalmath> ./util.h:    // but we really and truly need it for the generation threads.                 <<Bitcoin code
3184 2011-06-23 23:19:32 <xtalmath> but then again the generation was disabled in .23
3185 2011-06-23 23:19:48 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3186 2011-06-23 23:20:50 <phantomcircuit> HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT THE KITTENS http://covertinferno.org/~phantomcircuit/kittens.html
3187 2011-06-23 23:21:06 BaltarNZ has joined
3188 2011-06-23 23:21:12 <xtalmath> fine, I get it, ill play processor myself and start from main and see what threads are created along the way and what main does (I think it keeps the console open for messages no?)
3189 2011-06-23 23:21:52 <ericmock> sheesh, two hours ago everyone wants cocoa client...  now nuthin
3190 2011-06-23 23:22:10 <xtalmath> phantomcircuit: nice try, clamav caught the jpeg buffer overflow
3191 2011-06-23 23:22:22 <xtalmath> whats cocoa?
3192 2011-06-23 23:22:25 <phantomcircuit> xtalmath, rofl
3193 2011-06-23 23:22:37 <phantomcircuit> aint no such thing there
3194 2011-06-23 23:22:51 ne0futur has joined
3195 2011-06-23 23:22:52 ne0futur has quit (Changing host)
3196 2011-06-23 23:22:52 ne0futur has joined
3197 2011-06-23 23:23:02 <nuthin> MagicalTux: hi, I tried to reclaim my account, but haven't gotten a verification email yet after giving proof
3198 2011-06-23 23:24:17 <crocopod> <nuthin>nobody did get an email yet
3199 2011-06-23 23:24:28 <picci> phantomcircuit: there's a stupid tradehill ref which i don't get the point of
3200 2011-06-23 23:24:36 <nuthin> oh, okay
3201 2011-06-23 23:24:37 <picci> do you get paid for everyone that clicks on your ref ?
3202 2011-06-23 23:24:38 <phantomcircuit> picci, the point is kittens
3203 2011-06-23 23:24:44 <phantomcircuit> picci, i actually have no idea
3204 2011-06-23 23:24:47 <picci> no 'tis not
3205 2011-06-23 23:25:00 <phantomcircuit> just pointing out that the refcode is set even if the user doesn't actively click on it
3206 2011-06-23 23:25:02 Teslah has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3207 2011-06-23 23:25:12 Sylph2 has joined
3208 2011-06-23 23:25:21 <picci>  <iframe src="http://tradehill.com/?r=TH-R1217" width="0" height="0"></iframe>
3209 2011-06-23 23:25:24 <picci> <img src="http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Kitten2.jpg" />
3210 2011-06-23 23:25:26 <nuthin> wouldn't it be funny if lulzsec got ahold of the submitted proof you gave for your account ...
3211 2011-06-23 23:25:57 <picci> ah, so it saves it... interesting.. look at my kittes: http://no..nvm
3212 2011-06-23 23:26:10 <xtalmath> are pseudonyms on internet like carnival? people assuming roles?
3213 2011-06-23 23:26:20 JRWR has quit (Read error: No route to host)
3214 2011-06-23 23:28:35 <xtalmath> shit I guess I just have to learn ctags, cflow and cscope so I can write my own code analysis tools, manually mark all thread related functions, mark all called by functions to mark it contains a threading function up till right below main, so that traversing main I can see which calls deep down may result in threads
3215 2011-06-23 23:28:38 Sylph has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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3217 2011-06-23 23:29:09 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
3218 2011-06-23 23:29:09 JRWR has joined
3219 2011-06-23 23:29:12 <xtalmath> why does this tool not exist or where can I find it if it does?
3220 2011-06-23 23:29:39 ne0futur has left ()
3221 2011-06-23 23:30:12 dr_win has joined
3222 2011-06-23 23:30:32 brianml has left ()
3223 2011-06-23 23:30:45 Fairuser is now known as Fairuser|AFK
3224 2011-06-23 23:31:13 <vragnaroda> anyone running -testnet?
3225 2011-06-23 23:31:43 Pinion has joined
3226 2011-06-23 23:33:45 DiSTANT187 has joined
3227 2011-06-23 23:36:36 <gim> i do
3228 2011-06-23 23:38:05 Mrh00d_ has joined
3229 2011-06-23 23:39:21 <gim> vragnaroda: i'm playing with double spending
3230 2011-06-23 23:39:26 _ape has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3231 2011-06-23 23:39:59 <vragnaroda> gim: practice makes perfect :D
3232 2011-06-23 23:40:39 Mrh00d_ has quit (Client Quit)
3233 2011-06-23 23:40:55 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3234 2011-06-23 23:41:06 <gim> got tons of rejected transactions, dunno how to get rid of those lines :)
3235 2011-06-23 23:41:35 <gim> not that easy to identify dependencies
3236 2011-06-23 23:42:04 Sylph2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3237 2011-06-23 23:43:43 Nexus7 has quit ()
3238 2011-06-23 23:43:48 noagendamarket has joined
3239 2011-06-23 23:44:22 TheZimm is now known as TheZimm|away
3240 2011-06-23 23:46:46 Woellchen has joined
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3242 2011-06-23 23:51:03 ionspin_ is now known as ionspni
3243 2011-06-23 23:51:07 ionspni is now known as ionspin
3244 2011-06-23 23:54:16 JRWR has quit (Read error: No route to host)
3245 2011-06-23 23:54:18 <WakiMiko> guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuys
3246 2011-06-23 23:54:20 <WakiMiko> what is the difference between getblockcount and getblocknumber?
3247 2011-06-23 23:55:42 <xtalmath> WakiMiko: I dont know, but if sidechains can temporarily form I think blockcount is depth of tree, while blocknumber your local index to the blocks in the order you received them? dont know check first
3248 2011-06-23 23:56:01 Qatz is now known as DaQatz
3249 2011-06-23 23:56:42 <WakiMiko> hmmmmm
3250 2011-06-23 23:57:04 <WakiMiko> from the "bitcoin help" descriptions, they both sound like the same to me
3251 2011-06-23 23:58:28 _ape has joined
3252 2011-06-23 23:58:59 ionspin has quit (Quit: Leaving)