1 2011-07-02 00:00:15 <BlueMatt> n8{away}: but it will only show up after it has at least one confirmation
   2 2011-07-02 00:00:37 <n8{away}> strange. balance on my wallet there has lowered. a transaction ID has been created but i cant see it neither on my receiver bitcoin nor in the explorer
   3 2011-07-02 00:00:39 <n8{away}> hmm, ok
   4 2011-07-02 00:00:44 <BlueMatt> you can find it otherwise on bitcoincharts
   5 2011-07-02 00:00:52 <BlueMatt> on the page with all the unconfirmed transactions
   6 2011-07-02 00:00:54 <sipa> jgarzik: i would really prefer avoiding cwallet now
   7 2011-07-02 00:01:16 IncitatusOnWater has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
   8 2011-07-02 00:01:20 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I think bitcoin charts is still e.g. now showing txn with <0.01 outputs and only 0.0005 fee
   9 2011-07-02 00:01:26 <gmaxwell> s/now/not/
  10 2011-07-02 00:01:40 <BlueMatt> oh, well you might find it there then
  11 2011-07-02 00:02:08 unclemantis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  12 2011-07-02 00:02:13 <sipa> otherwise, you need only the synch fix from #358
  13 2011-07-02 00:03:06 <n8{away}> hm.. and its not on bitcoincharts either ^^
  14 2011-07-02 00:03:11 <n8{away}> i will just wait..
  15 2011-07-02 00:03:22 <n8{away}> might be my bitcoind with allowing jsut 1 connection..
  16 2011-07-02 00:03:33 <BlueMatt> n8{away}: try with -dnsseed
  17 2011-07-02 00:03:37 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: are you even connected?
  18 2011-07-02 00:03:59 <n8{away}> -dnsseed? Dont know that one
  19 2011-07-02 00:04:07 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
  20 2011-07-02 00:04:08 <n8{away}> how do i check if it is connected on ssh?
  21 2011-07-02 00:04:08 <gmaxwell> what block number do you have?
  22 2011-07-02 00:04:14 <BlueMatt> it will get you a ton more conections (more easily)
  23 2011-07-02 00:04:23 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: bitcoind getinfo
  24 2011-07-02 00:04:37 <gmaxwell> how many connections and how many blocks?
  25 2011-07-02 00:04:52 <n8{away}> 134291 blocks
  26 2011-07-02 00:04:58 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
  27 2011-07-02 00:04:59 <gribble> 134294
  28 2011-07-02 00:05:02 <n8{away}> connections 1
  29 2011-07-02 00:05:07 briareus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  30 2011-07-02 00:05:09 <BlueMatt> you need to try -dnsseed
  31 2011-07-02 00:05:11 <n8{away}> so its not properly synced i guess
  32 2011-07-02 00:05:13 theorb has joined
  33 2011-07-02 00:05:22 <n8{away}> will that increase the memory footprint?
  34 2011-07-02 00:05:26 <BlueMatt> no its behind 3 blocks
  35 2011-07-02 00:05:37 <BlueMatt> if it has more connections, yea it might increase memory a bit
  36 2011-07-02 00:05:37 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: he has maxconnections 1 I think.
  37 2011-07-02 00:05:41 <kunnis> I wish there was a way to figure out which block was the most recent, and show that on the client
  38 2011-07-02 00:05:42 <BlueMatt> oh, really
  39 2011-07-02 00:05:48 <n8{away}> got maxconnections 1
  40 2011-07-02 00:05:50 <BlueMatt> well then try -connect=a better node
  41 2011-07-02 00:06:02 <n8{away}> if it is higher my server crashes in a matter of hours ><
  42 2011-07-02 00:06:12 <BlueMatt> how much memory do you have?
  43 2011-07-02 00:06:14 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  44 2011-07-02 00:06:15 <n8{away}> any nodes to recommend?
  45 2011-07-02 00:06:18 <jgarzik> Shipping a cherry-picked release means throwing away all upstream git testing since the last release, which isn't the best release engineering decision in the world...
  46 2011-07-02 00:06:18 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
  47 2011-07-02 00:06:21 <n8{away}> 512 max
  48 2011-07-02 00:06:31 <BlueMatt> bitcoin shouldnt use that much
  49 2011-07-02 00:06:45 <n8{away}> top shows 224
  50 2011-07-02 00:06:48 <jgarzik> I thought CWallet was just code movement, so it seems like correcting code movement bugs should be straightforward?
  51 2011-07-02 00:07:05 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: you're probably looking at virtual memory space not actually used?
  52 2011-07-02 00:07:11 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: code movement and quite a bit of cleaning the way it interacts
  53 2011-07-02 00:07:20 <n8{away}> could be
  54 2011-07-02 00:07:24 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: so yea, bugs should be easy to fix, the question is if we have found them all yet
  55 2011-07-02 00:07:26 <dsockwell> what's virtual memory space?
  56 2011-07-02 00:07:27 <n8{away}> i am not that familiar with linux
  57 2011-07-02 00:07:56 <dsockwell> are you reading total RAM usage for all processes, or the bitcoin process only?
  58 2011-07-02 00:07:58 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_address_space
  59 2011-07-02 00:08:14 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: how are you measuring the usage?
  60 2011-07-02 00:08:20 diggan has joined
  61 2011-07-02 00:08:28 <gmaxwell> In any case, each connection doesn't use that much memory incrementally.
  62 2011-07-02 00:08:32 OneFixt has joined
  63 2011-07-02 00:08:43 <n8{away}> with "top" it shows bitcoind under VIRT having 224mb
  64 2011-07-02 00:08:44 <BlueMatt> n8{away}: in top you need to be reading %mem, not VIRT, RES or SHR
  65 2011-07-02 00:08:46 <n8{away}> guess that is virtual
  66 2011-07-02 00:08:49 OneFixt has quit (Changing host)
  67 2011-07-02 00:08:49 OneFixt has joined
  68 2011-07-02 00:08:54 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: whats RES?
  69 2011-07-02 00:09:23 <n8{away}> 37m
  70 2011-07-02 00:09:33 <BlueMatt> ah, that sounds better
  71 2011-07-02 00:09:39 <n8{away}> 14,5% mem
  72 2011-07-02 00:09:46 <dsockwell> perfectly acceptable
  73 2011-07-02 00:09:53 briareus has joined
  74 2011-07-02 00:09:58 <n8{away}> good to hear that ,0)
  75 2011-07-02 00:10:12 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  76 2011-07-02 00:10:16 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  77 2011-07-02 00:10:19 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: are you still behind btw?
  78 2011-07-02 00:10:22 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: you are the release mangler, its up to you...
  79 2011-07-02 00:10:35 Pinion has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  80 2011-07-02 00:10:48 <BlueMatt> s/mangler/wrangler/
  81 2011-07-02 00:11:01 <gmaxwell> hopefully more of the latter than the former.
  82 2011-07-02 00:11:23 <n8{away}> ;;bc,blocks
  83 2011-07-02 00:11:23 <gribble> 134295
  84 2011-07-02 00:11:25 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: well at the most basic level, I was confused as to what people wanted in 0.3.24.  It sounded to me like people meant "push current upstream out + these necessary fixes, rather than waiting for wallet encryption"
  85 2011-07-02 00:11:28 <n8{away}> now i am synced
  86 2011-07-02 00:11:28 <b4epoche_> was guessing 'manager'
  87 2011-07-02 00:11:31 <dsockwell> n8{away}: what do you mean crashes?
  88 2011-07-02 00:11:32 <dsockwell> btw
  89 2011-07-02 00:11:33 <jgarzik> the cherry picking was not clear to me at all
  90 2011-07-02 00:11:46 <dsockwell> what kind of server is it?
  91 2011-07-02 00:12:12 <jgarzik> but it's not a fiat decision, if I want one thing and everybody else wants something else, then we ignore what I want ;-)
  92 2011-07-02 00:12:18 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well the idea was mostly to get "Limit response to getblocks to half of output buffer size" out
  93 2011-07-02 00:12:19 <n8{away}> dsockwell: Well, server doesnt allow any more incoming traffic. neither ssh, http or whatnot and needs to be restarted. I GUESS it is the bitcoind because it happens only if i have it running with maxconnections > 1
  94 2011-07-02 00:12:34 <n8{away}> virtual server, Debian Squeeze
  95 2011-07-02 00:12:47 nhodges has joined
  96 2011-07-02 00:12:55 <dsockwell> n8{away}: can you open an out-of-band console?
  97 2011-07-02 00:13:00 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: frankly, I dont care too much as long as that makes it in, its really a question of do we want to do broad field-testing of cwallet yet, or keep it in git until 0.4 and do it with wallet crypto
  98 2011-07-02 00:13:03 <dsockwell> also what hypervisor / provider ?
  99 2011-07-02 00:13:07 <n8{away}> out-of-band?
 100 2011-07-02 00:13:11 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: if it runs out of ram it should just kill the offending task (or, well, other random ones)
 101 2011-07-02 00:13:39 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: now that I say it, cwallet sounds just as good as not so I dont really care, but maybe gmaxwell and/or sipa have a strong opinion
 102 2011-07-02 00:13:40 <dsockwell> someone told me that it could be a network queue filling up
 103 2011-07-02 00:13:44 rich has quit (Quit: rich)
 104 2011-07-02 00:13:46 <kunnis> It could be that it's running the system out of sockets
 105 2011-07-02 00:13:53 <dsockwell> could be
 106 2011-07-02 00:14:06 <n8{away}> no idea... i am totally new to this and just wanted to use bitcoind on my webserver to use it with php
 107 2011-07-02 00:14:06 <sipa> to me 0.3.24 was "just 0.3.23, with only trivial fixes"
 108 2011-07-02 00:14:07 <dsockwell> n8{away}: again, what provider, and hypervisor?
 109 2011-07-02 00:14:09 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I have roughly zero desire to test cwallet on its own, it's basically redundant to testing wallet crypto without encryption enabled, which I've done a fair amount of.
 110 2011-07-02 00:14:24 <n8{away}> provider, hypervisor?
 111 2011-07-02 00:14:28 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: no, Im saying get it out to test in a release
 112 2011-07-02 00:14:40 <dsockwell> n8{away}: so you have a virtual server, right?
 113 2011-07-02 00:14:48 <n8{away}> sorry from keeping you guys away from your -dev stuff.. btw
 114 2011-07-02 00:14:51 <n8{away}> yes
 115 2011-07-02 00:14:54 <dsockwell> n8{away}: did you set it up on your own hardware?
 116 2011-07-02 00:15:01 <n8{away}> oh.. no. Its rented
 117 2011-07-02 00:15:04 <gmaxwell> kunnis: with 125 connections at most? Not likely.
 118 2011-07-02 00:15:07 <dsockwell> who did you rent it from?
 119 2011-07-02 00:15:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: it was, but does it make since to do a broad test of cwallet now, or wait and do it with crypto together in 0.4?
 120 2011-07-02 00:15:15 <n8{away}> x-isp.de
 121 2011-07-02 00:15:23 <kunnis> gmaxwell  If it's not cleaning up the sockets correctly, maybe.
 122 2011-07-02 00:15:25 <jgarzik> with my Release Mangler hat on, one-off untested branches should be generally avoided, since they have zero testing beforehand, and are dead-end branches.  Dead end branches make for annoying bug reports, because they are not directly applicable to current upstream or last release or anywhere in between.
 123 2011-07-02 00:15:31 Guest84257 has quit (Quit: Guest84257)
 124 2011-07-02 00:15:39 <jgarzik> but like all Pirate Rules... that's just a guideline
 125 2011-07-02 00:15:40 <gmaxwell> kunnis: in any case then it would run other people out too.
 126 2011-07-02 00:15:52 <jgarzik> if it doesn't make sense for this release, then we can buck convention wisdom :)
 127 2011-07-02 00:16:17 <dsockwell> n8{away}: the hypervisor there is xen
 128 2011-07-02 00:16:23 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: its also conventional wisdom to not pull a fix and push a release within 24 hours, but we are doing that here too so...
 129 2011-07-02 00:16:39 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: -rc1 != final
 130 2011-07-02 00:16:42 <n8{away}> dsockwell: thanks.. now i know what you mean
 131 2011-07-02 00:16:50 <kunnis> gmaxwell  depends on his hosting situation... but he may just be running out of sockets locally.  If a socket gets opened and doesn't get closed, it'll be left sitting there left open until it is closed.
 132 2011-07-02 00:16:56 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: gotta get at least some sanity testing from the community
 133 2011-07-02 00:17:00 <sipa> there is one functional change in cwallet: it removes code to handle incoming ip transfers
 134 2011-07-02 00:17:03 <kunnis> Why would it impact other users?
 135 2011-07-02 00:17:12 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well I suppose for kernel release method it is, but in most software a ton of people depend strongly that your beta releases work
 136 2011-07-02 00:17:25 unclemantis has joined
 137 2011-07-02 00:17:27 <kunnis> *edits*  WHy would it impact other guest machines on the same host?
 138 2011-07-02 00:17:41 minimoose has joined
 139 2011-07-02 00:17:42 <BlueMatt> sipa: wait, it does, but then isnt it still in ui.cpp? I thought I saw some when I was doing crypto?
 140 2011-07-02 00:17:52 <gmaxwell> kunnis: It would hit other _bitcoin_ users elsewhere.
 141 2011-07-02 00:18:26 <kunnis> Valid point...
 142 2011-07-02 00:18:36 <sipa> BlueMatt: i don't touch ui code
 143 2011-07-02 00:18:41 <dsockwell> n8{away}: can you check your i/o performance?  does top show you a lot of i/o wait usage?
 144 2011-07-02 00:19:01 <kunnis> perhaps how his box works is brining out some edge case?
 145 2011-07-02 00:19:05 <dsockwell> n8{away}: bitcoind loves its synchronous i/o
 146 2011-07-02 00:19:13 <dsockwell> could be
 147 2011-07-02 00:19:37 <n8{away}> not sure where to look at
 148 2011-07-02 00:19:51 <dsockwell> n8{away}: top.
 149 2011-07-02 00:20:16 lolwat` has joined
 150 2011-07-02 00:20:16 blueadept has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 151 2011-07-02 00:20:16 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 152 2011-07-02 00:20:27 <dsockwell>  0.3%wa
 153 2011-07-02 00:20:40 <n8{away}> 7.4%wa
 154 2011-07-02 00:20:42 copumpkin has joined
 155 2011-07-02 00:20:45 <n8{away}> ..wa?
 156 2011-07-02 00:20:47 <dsockwell> wait
 157 2011-07-02 00:20:49 <dsockwell> i/o wait
 158 2011-07-02 00:20:51 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, sipa: writing another mail to bitcoin-dev, back in ~30 (baby bedtime)
 159 2011-07-02 00:20:53 <n8{away}> ahh
 160 2011-07-02 00:21:05 <dsockwell> n8{away}: that is probably your limiting factor
 161 2011-07-02 00:21:15 <dsockwell> n8{away}: can you adjust to 2 connections and see how i/o wait responds?
 162 2011-07-02 00:21:30 <n8{away}> i thought that whats behind cpu might be the load of the various CPUs on the host mashines..
 163 2011-07-02 00:21:31 <dsockwell> n8{away}: on my machine with 8 connections i see between 0 and .1 i/o wait
 164 2011-07-02 00:21:42 <n8{away}> ok, i'll see
 165 2011-07-02 00:21:51 <gmaxwell> dsockwell: er. Why would increasing connections meaningfully increase io? and why would he be unable to login with busy IO?
 166 2011-07-02 00:22:03 <dsockwell> n8{away}: load average has nothing to do with CPU activity, it's the number of processes waiting for CPU time
 167 2011-07-02 00:22:15 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 168 2011-07-02 00:22:16 <sipa> btw, as walletcrypto does not contain any fixes for cwallet, i suppose cwallet is somewhat tested already, and 0.3.24 could be seen as full test for cwallet
 169 2011-07-02 00:22:31 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: I'd suggest just running with the default settings + -nolisten then you'll get 8 connections to other listening nodes and no more
 170 2011-07-02 00:22:57 <BlueMatt> sipa: well it does add a return statement or two in keystore.* iirc, but that only means crappy compilers like vc would be made happy
 171 2011-07-02 00:23:00 <dsockwell> gmaxwell: i agree, it shouldn't, but bitcoin seems to have some quirks with regard to its berkeley database that increases sync i/o
 172 2011-07-02 00:23:02 <jgarzik> wow, that was the shortest baby bedtime in history
 173 2011-07-02 00:23:12 <n8{away}> wa seems to be stable at arround 8% again
 174 2011-07-02 00:23:23 * jgarzik resumes writing
 175 2011-07-02 00:23:27 <dsockwell> give it a few minutes.  is your load average creeping up?
 176 2011-07-02 00:23:49 <n8{away}> looooks stable
 177 2011-07-02 00:23:51 <gmaxwell> dsockwell: yes, bitcoin uses a fair amount of sync io, but it's not connection proportional at all.
 178 2011-07-02 00:24:08 <dsockwell> gmaxwell: i'll take your word for that, i haven't tested that relationship
 179 2011-07-02 00:24:52 <gmaxwell>     "connections" : 811,
 180 2011-07-02 00:24:58 <gmaxwell> Cpu(s):  0.6%us,  0.3%sy,  0.9%ni, 98.2%id,  0.0%wa,  0.0%hi,  0.0%si,  0.0%
 181 2011-07-02 00:25:07 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: holy shit...811?
 182 2011-07-02 00:25:36 <dsockwell> gmaxwell: my hypothesis is that he's on an exceptionally shitty node with an i/o bottleneck
 183 2011-07-02 00:25:40 <dsockwell> of some kind
 184 2011-07-02 00:25:42 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yes. I have maxconnections at 2048 I think.
 185 2011-07-02 00:25:45 <n8{away}> ;;bc,blocks
 186 2011-07-02 00:25:46 <gribble> 134296
 187 2011-07-02 00:25:50 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: uh...why?
 188 2011-07-02 00:26:01 <n8{away}> ok, connections 2 and blocks at the same amount
 189 2011-07-02 00:26:13 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: because it has the resources to handle it..set it that way when I was the only node in some of the irc channels.
 190 2011-07-02 00:26:37 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
 191 2011-07-02 00:26:55 <gmaxwell> it didn't used to have so many because nodes kept getting flooded off, but w/ sipa's patch they stay connected.
 192 2011-07-02 00:27:09 <BlueMatt> n8{away}: try -addnode=58.211.20.150 -addnode=
 193 2011-07-02 00:27:10 <BlueMatt> 50.129.99.36
 194 2011-07-02 00:27:30 <n8{away}> id is at 100%
 195 2011-07-02 00:27:34 <n8{away}> is that ok or not?
 196 2011-07-02 00:27:36 <dsockwell> id is idle
 197 2011-07-02 00:27:39 <gmaxwell> it's fine.
 198 2011-07-02 00:27:43 <n8{away}> ok
 199 2011-07-02 00:27:44 zamgo has left ()
 200 2011-07-02 00:27:47 <dsockwell> n8
 201 2011-07-02 00:27:48 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: damn, well good for you
 202 2011-07-02 00:27:51 <n8{away}> those nodes go into the conf, right?
 203 2011-07-02 00:27:59 <BlueMatt> n8{away}: or the command line
 204 2011-07-02 00:28:03 <dsockwell> n8{away}: my server that's running bitcoind with ~8 connections is using 287MB RAM
 205 2011-07-02 00:28:26 <dsockwell> thats' with ~7 bitcoind processes, each using 27MB
 206 2011-07-02 00:28:30 bliket_ has quit (Quit: twixt)
 207 2011-07-02 00:28:32 <dsockwell> if i read this right
 208 2011-07-02 00:28:41 <dsockwell> so i would say it probably is just running out of RAM
 209 2011-07-02 00:28:48 <BlueMatt> n8{away}: also, what does tail ~/.bitcoin/debug.log show?
 210 2011-07-02 00:28:49 <dsockwell> and you should pay for more
 211 2011-07-02 00:29:04 shLONG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 212 2011-07-02 00:29:10 <gmaxwell> dsockwell: er. no. Why would you have more than 1 bitcoin _process_?
 213 2011-07-02 00:29:31 <gmaxwell> dsockwell: his memory usage was not high at all.
 214 2011-07-02 00:29:45 <n8{away}> sorry for pasting:
 215 2011-07-02 00:29:47 <n8{away}> Bitcoin version 0.3.23-beta
 216 2011-07-02 00:29:47 <n8{away}> Default data directory /root/.bitcoin
 217 2011-07-02 00:29:47 <n8{away}> Bound to port 8333
 218 2011-07-02 00:29:47 <n8{away}> Loading addresses...
 219 2011-07-02 00:29:47 <n8{away}> dbenv.open strLogDir=/root/.bitcoin/database strErrorFile=/root/.bitcoin/db.log
 220 2011-07-02 00:29:48 <n8{away}> Loaded 87466 addresses
 221 2011-07-02 00:29:48 <n8{away}>  addresses              1528ms
 222 2011-07-02 00:29:49 <n8{away}> Loading block index...
 223 2011-07-02 00:29:49 <n8{away}> LoadBlockIndex(): hashBestChain=00000000000006ee3f65  height=134296
 224 2011-07-02 00:30:06 <BlueMatt> thats the end?
 225 2011-07-02 00:30:11 <n8{away}> yes
 226 2011-07-02 00:30:12 <BlueMatt> it shows no connections
 227 2011-07-02 00:30:16 <BlueMatt> did you just restart bitcoin?
 228 2011-07-02 00:30:21 <n8{away}> yes
 229 2011-07-02 00:30:21 <sipa> don't do that please
 230 2011-07-02 00:30:23 <n8{away}> after adding the nodes
 231 2011-07-02 00:30:31 <sipa> use pastebin
 232 2011-07-02 00:30:32 <BlueMatt> also, pastebin.com
 233 2011-07-02 00:30:39 <n8{away}> will do
 234 2011-07-02 00:30:43 <BlueMatt> ok, wait a sec, then pastebin it again
 235 2011-07-02 00:30:46 <n8{away}> or rather, wont ,0)
 236 2011-07-02 00:30:47 <dsockwell> running bitcoin as root is probably unwise, also
 237 2011-07-02 00:31:10 <n8{away}> will change it to another user once it is running
 238 2011-07-02 00:31:36 <gmaxwell> yea.. if it is using too much ram that might be why its blowing up the system instead of being killed (don't root processes get an OOM pass?)
 239 2011-07-02 00:31:39 dvide has quit ()
 240 2011-07-02 00:32:03 <n8{away}> http://pastebin.com/bMhLbMHX
 241 2011-07-02 00:32:22 <dsockwell> gmaxwell: how much RAM is your 800-connection instance using, just out of curiosity?
 242 2011-07-02 00:32:29 <BlueMatt> n8{away}: is the connection count not up yet?
 243 2011-07-02 00:32:37 <gmaxwell> dsockwell: 1.9g
 244 2011-07-02 00:32:47 <dsockwell> just for bitcoind?
 245 2011-07-02 00:32:53 <n8{away}> getinfo: Connections 2
 246 2011-07-02 00:32:55 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: which patches are you running on on that one?
 247 2011-07-02 00:33:03 <BlueMatt> n8{away}: sorry, not connections, blocks
 248 2011-07-02 00:33:14 <n8{away}> "blocks" : 134296,
 249 2011-07-02 00:33:54 quellhorst has joined
 250 2011-07-02 00:34:29 <n8{away}> tail debug.log shows nothing really different from before
 251 2011-07-02 00:34:31 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: sipa, one that makes it join many IRC channels, some mining specific ones (e.g. luke's extranonce patch) though I don't mine off it anymore, changes to the outgoing connection logic I've been testing.
 252 2011-07-02 00:34:45 <n8{away}> so you think if i run bitcoind not from root it might get killed if it uses too much ram?
 253 2011-07-02 00:34:48 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: at least you're in sync with the network now.
 254 2011-07-02 00:35:17 <n8{away}> thats a start ,0)
 255 2011-07-02 00:35:26 <BlueMatt> ;;bc,blocks
 256 2011-07-02 00:35:27 <gribble> 134296
 257 2011-07-02 00:35:54 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: I think linux tries to avoid killing root owned processes when out of memory, yes.
 258 2011-07-02 00:36:16 <n8{away}> ok..
 259 2011-07-02 00:36:22 <n8{away}> i will start it from another user..
 260 2011-07-02 00:36:22 <dsockwell> will it take out something like sshd first?
 261 2011-07-02 00:36:27 <dsockwell> or at the same priority?
 262 2011-07-02 00:36:31 <BlueMatt> does someone have a ip-transaction-accepting testnet node I can test?
 263 2011-07-02 00:36:53 <dsockwell> BlueMatt: what do you mean ip-transaction-accepting?
 264 2011-07-02 00:37:02 <dsockwell> just an open port or is it a special directive?
 265 2011-07-02 00:37:19 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: it accepts transactions sent to an ip instead of address
 266 2011-07-02 00:37:23 <BlueMatt> ie old version of bitcoin
 267 2011-07-02 00:37:36 <BlueMatt> or...actually when was that removed?
 268 2011-07-02 00:37:39 <BlueMatt> or has it been?
 269 2011-07-02 00:37:43 <dsockwell> how old?
 270 2011-07-02 00:37:46 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: reading the kernel source it appears that niced processed are killed earlier
 271 2011-07-02 00:37:53 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: well do you have a testnet node which accepts incoming connections?
 272 2011-07-02 00:38:04 <gmaxwell> so e.g. starting bitcoin with "nice ./bitcoind ..." may be helpful if thats your issue.
 273 2011-07-02 00:38:07 <dsockwell> i think so, let me PM you the address
 274 2011-07-02 00:38:22 <n8{away}> ok
 275 2011-07-02 00:40:16 Niedar has left ()
 276 2011-07-02 00:40:20 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Eric Hosmer master * r12a4af4 / src/makefile.vc : Further updated Visual C++ makefile. - http://bit.ly/klmmni
 277 2011-07-02 00:40:21 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Eric Hosmer master * r58d9bad / src/makefile.vc : Add keystore.h to makefile.vs's header list. - http://bit.ly/kVztSQ
 278 2011-07-02 00:40:21 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * rcfbcb1d / src/makefile.vc :
 279 2011-07-02 00:40:21 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #373 from EricJ2190/master
 280 2011-07-02 00:40:21 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Another Visual C++ Makefile Update - http://bit.ly/jnvpDY
 281 2011-07-02 00:40:36 <jgarzik> email sent to bitcoin-development
 282 2011-07-02 00:40:40 <n8{away}> alright, started it from another user
 283 2011-07-02 00:40:45 <jgarzik> request that comments continue there...
 284 2011-07-02 00:40:56 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 285 2011-07-02 00:43:07 <sipa> jgarzik: i'm goin to bed now; i can live with both, but slight preference for (a) still
 286 2011-07-02 00:43:08 <briareus> crazy trade http://is.gd/W30ckf
 287 2011-07-02 00:43:27 <briareus> wwops wrong channel
 288 2011-07-02 00:43:44 <gmaxwell> briareus: wtf, dude, I'm sitting in public.
 289 2011-07-02 00:44:00 <briareus> I'm sorry, it was a wrong channel
 290 2011-07-02 00:44:12 <briareus> if I would have caught it sooner I'd have said so
 291 2011-07-02 00:44:27 * briareus sincerely apologizes
 292 2011-07-02 00:44:33 <gmaxwell> just be sad you didn't get to see my panic rush to close my laptop screen. :)
 293 2011-07-02 00:44:36 <n8{away}> interestering what is talked about in -dev ,0)
 294 2011-07-02 00:47:20 <n8{away}> ok guys.-.. thanks for the input here. i think i will go to bed now. if my server keeps running tomorrow everything will be fine i guess :0)
 295 2011-07-02 00:47:53 <gmaxwell> n8{away}: good luck!
 296 2011-07-02 00:48:05 Raccoon has quit ()
 297 2011-07-02 00:49:10 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: lol?
 298 2011-07-02 00:49:39 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: Will this go to an -rc release first?
 299 2011-07-02 00:49:59 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: everything does
 300 2011-07-02 00:50:13 <gmaxwell> okay, well, that softens my concern some.
 301 2011-07-02 00:52:29 Raccoon has joined
 302 2011-07-02 00:53:08 <n8{away}> ;;bc,blocks
 303 2011-07-02 00:53:09 <gribble> 134300
 304 2011-07-02 00:55:09 <n8{away}> ok, server is running, block count is synced... and the balance is changed. Can transactions become orphaned?
 305 2011-07-02 00:55:15 <n8{away}> (Ok no sleep yet..)
 306 2011-07-02 00:59:15 Ramen has left ()
 307 2011-07-02 00:59:41 BlueMattBot has joined
 308 2011-07-02 00:59:50 kika has joined
 309 2011-07-02 01:01:30 zeta-51b has joined
 310 2011-07-02 01:01:57 Gonzago has joined
 311 2011-07-02 01:01:59 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r686eab9 / package.json :
 312 2011-07-02 01:01:59 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Add dependency on JSON-RPC.
 313 2011-07-02 01:01:59 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Also added Bill as contributor and fixed repo url. - http://bit.ly/jQebTc
 314 2011-07-02 01:02:00 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r66e0895 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Added JSON RPC API. Added first API method: getblockcount. - http://bit.ly/lSkuiA
 315 2011-07-02 01:05:46 _ui has joined
 316 2011-07-02 01:05:55 <Zarutian> hmm... was someone talking about the make utility earlier? One trick I heard about was to have a bash script that did nothing but translate project spefic makefile formats into the format used by the local make utility.
 317 2011-07-02 01:07:57 <BlueMatt> no, I was just commenting that one has to use ugly hacks to get stuff to work, but no need for even uglier things like that
 318 2011-07-02 01:10:01 n8{away} is now known as n8{BNC|off}
 319 2011-07-02 01:10:49 <Zarutian> it was an trick from the time when each commercial UNIX distributer made their own make clone.
 320 2011-07-02 01:11:02 MetaV has joined
 321 2011-07-02 01:12:08 <BlueMatt> and its still used today, in the form of autotools
 322 2011-07-02 01:12:39 <Zarutian> but what makefiles do is to keep track of interdependencies between files
 323 2011-07-02 01:12:58 <Zarutian> exactly and all the headaches that result from that come along for the ride.
 324 2011-07-02 01:13:21 <Zarutian> !bc,stats
 325 2011-07-02 01:13:51 wolfspraul has joined
 326 2011-07-02 01:13:55 <Zarutian> ;;bc,stats
 327 2011-07-02 01:13:59 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134303 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 768 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 12 hours, 35 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1582753.94799272
 328 2011-07-02 01:14:00 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: that's not an issue any more. it's safe to require gmake as a build dep
 329 2011-07-02 01:14:11 Lobster_Man has joined
 330 2011-07-02 01:14:15 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: because if you can't build gmake on your platform on the platform you're cross compiling from, well, fuck you ;p
 331 2011-07-02 01:14:26 <jrmithdobbs> s/platform on/platform or/
 332 2011-07-02 01:15:02 estornudo has joined
 333 2011-07-02 01:15:05 <jrmithdobbs> (because it builds everywhere, basically)
 334 2011-07-02 01:15:50 arthurb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 335 2011-07-02 01:17:09 <Zarutian> I have always been on the opinion that make (and variants) is a hack that comes about due to  non-virtualzation of the filesystem interface. (Which something like fuse partially solves)
 336 2011-07-02 01:18:00 Leo_II has joined
 337 2011-07-02 01:18:04 <Zarutian> think about it, the information that is already present in the source and header files is also kept in makefiles.
 338 2011-07-02 01:18:14 LobsterMan has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 339 2011-07-02 01:18:23 <jrmithdobbs> no it's not
 340 2011-07-02 01:19:13 <Zarutian> and who hasnt been bitten by the fact that sometimes those two representations go out of sync with each other.
 341 2011-07-02 01:19:33 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: sure stuff like compiler options are only kept in the makefiles.
 342 2011-07-02 01:19:47 <jrmithdobbs> there's lots of stuff not present in the source directly
 343 2011-07-02 01:20:31 <Zarutian> I never said it was present in the source directly but the information is more diffused there then in the makefiles.
 344 2011-07-02 01:20:36 Leo_II1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 345 2011-07-02 01:20:41 <jrmithdobbs> compiler options, linker options, inter-dependency information, default defines and processing for other values for said defines, etc
 346 2011-07-02 01:20:50 <jrmithdobbs> actually, less
 347 2011-07-02 01:21:12 <jrmithdobbs> except for header deps (which there are several methods of auto-determining so make doesn't *have* to know about them specifically)
 348 2011-07-02 01:21:26 arthurb has joined
 349 2011-07-02 01:21:44 <Zarutian> what about module linking?
 350 2011-07-02 01:22:05 <jrmithdobbs> what about it?
 351 2011-07-02 01:22:16 <Zarutian> is that only present in makefiles and not source files?
 352 2011-07-02 01:22:48 <jrmithdobbs> it can be inferred from the source with a lot of trickery (and often is) but usually only in the makefiles
 353 2011-07-02 01:23:50 <Zarutian> yes, and sometimes the information in the makefiles goes out of sync with the infromation that can be inferred from the source.
 354 2011-07-02 01:24:32 <jrmithdobbs> you missed the "a lot of trickery" part, it's actually, especially for smaller projects, easier to manage it manually than to infer it
 355 2011-07-02 01:26:02 <Zarutian> compilers, assemblers and linkers seem to handle this "trickery" very well yet something that is tasked with finding files interdependecies cant.
 356 2011-07-02 01:26:18 <Zarutian> why is that?
 357 2011-07-02 01:26:33 theymos has joined
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 360 2011-07-02 01:26:34 LobsterMan has joined
 361 2011-07-02 01:26:58 * Zarutian waves to theymos
 362 2011-07-02 01:27:09 * theymos waves back.
 363 2011-07-02 01:27:20 <Zarutian> perhaps we are talking past each other on this issue, jrmithdobbs.
 364 2011-07-02 01:27:37 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: the linker never handles it automagically
 365 2011-07-02 01:27:42 <jrmithdobbs> neither does the compiler
 366 2011-07-02 01:27:55 <Zarutian> alright, the compile driver (such as gcc)
 367 2011-07-02 01:27:56 <jrmithdobbs> it's only done "automagically" with intermediary trickery (usually using autotools)
 368 2011-07-02 01:28:02 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: no
 369 2011-07-02 01:28:45 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: build systems are annoying as shit for this exact reason. the compiler/linker *can't* figure that stuff out itself
 370 2011-07-02 01:29:05 <jrmithdobbs> it requires either human intervention or crazy intermediary steps to guess well
 371 2011-07-02 01:29:21 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: that is exactly what I want to discuss, why the heck are build systems this annoying?
 372 2011-07-02 01:29:21 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: just a side note to be aware of. Im not sure where you pulled your dnsseed list from, but some of the static nodes arent good for dnsseed.  There was a guy on here quite a ways ago who was saying that his static node was put in there because it had good uptime a long time ago but is hosted on a 24k dialup modem so...
 373 2011-07-02 01:29:53 kluge has quit (Quit: ....)
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 375 2011-07-02 01:31:42 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 376 2011-07-02 01:32:43 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: hmm.. have you ever cooked, say, a three course by following a ?overview? recipie that depends on other recipies to make the subcomponents?
 377 2011-07-02 01:33:19 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: buzzword buzzword buzzword.... none of that parsed for me
 378 2011-07-02 01:33:51 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: and they're so annoying because people want to spend as little time as possible with the build system and that means it's usually easier to force a sane system ontop of existing tools than to properly recreate the tools
 379 2011-07-02 01:34:06 <jrmithdobbs> which is how we end up with abominations like autotools and ant
 380 2011-07-02 01:34:17 <jrmithdobbs> (and if you think autotools/gmake are evil, jesus christ fuck ant)
 381 2011-07-02 01:34:52 <Zarutian> I have seen Ant. Burn it out of existence with gamma-ray fire please
 382 2011-07-02 01:35:32 sanchaz has joined
 383 2011-07-02 01:37:24 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: re build systems being annoying because people spend as little time as possible with build systems: might this not be sign of vicious cycle? That people do this exactly because build systems have generally been annoying?
 384 2011-07-02 01:38:53 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: yes it is.
 385 2011-07-02 01:38:59 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: also, it's funny that you hate ant.
 386 2011-07-02 01:39:13 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: because ant tries (very poorly) to do basically what you were describing
 387 2011-07-02 01:39:16 Soak has quit ()
 388 2011-07-02 01:39:36 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: store all the build info/deps in the source itself (in awful horrible ways, but i digress)
 389 2011-07-02 01:39:44 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: classic Sun NIH crap
 390 2011-07-02 01:39:44 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: poorly yes and I think it is because it is a solution to a poorly understood problem
 391 2011-07-02 01:40:12 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: the honest truth is, it's a boring problem, so people who could do it better just don't focus on it ;p
 392 2011-07-02 01:40:13 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: I want to understand the problem before starting thinking about solutions to it.
 393 2011-07-02 01:40:40 KhaosT has joined
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 395 2011-07-02 01:41:31 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: bridge design structural checking is a boring problem but yet someone went ahead, understood it and solved it.
 396 2011-07-02 01:42:01 <Zarutian> buildsystems can be rather boring yet it is a crucial part of any project.
 397 2011-07-02 01:42:14 <b4epoche_> what I don't get is headers...  why not just do what LaTeX does an do multiple passes
 398 2011-07-02 01:42:34 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: also, any replacement for it needs to be as portable as current solutions so even if someone DID fix it (I actually kind of like djb's build/packaging stuff, I know I'm in the minority, but just for instance)
 399 2011-07-02 01:42:45 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: it'd take forever to get adopted
 400 2011-07-02 01:43:09 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: simple, make the replacement buildable with current solutions.
 401 2011-07-02 01:43:17 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: because that would make compilers infinitely more complex
 402 2011-07-02 01:43:38 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: that's what autotools *does*
 403 2011-07-02 01:44:06 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: poorly if people are always bitcing about autotools
 404 2011-07-02 01:44:06 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: for new embedded platforms c89 compilers get ported first thing, usually in a month or 2
 405 2011-07-02 01:44:17 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: if the compiler has to be more complicated that slows that process *way* down
 406 2011-07-02 01:44:46 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: and "a month or 2" is an overcompensating estimation. in some cases it's as short as 1-2 weeks
 407 2011-07-02 01:45:22 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: and that usually includes a fairly portable libc
 408 2011-07-02 01:45:23 <Zarutian> I thought a small forth system was the first to be ported inside hours from the first prototypes returning from the factory
 409 2011-07-02 01:45:40 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: ok the first *useful* thing (just kidding <3 forth)
 410 2011-07-02 01:45:57 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: and that depends on the platform ;p
 411 2011-07-02 01:45:58 <sacarlson> are there any escrow sites left for bitcoins?
 412 2011-07-02 01:46:04 <Zarutian> it is used to excersie the hardware and look for faults.
 413 2011-07-02 01:46:23 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: ya i meant the first thing for actual development
 414 2011-07-02 01:47:05 hallowworld has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 415 2011-07-02 01:47:35 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: I havent gotten it yet why nobody has bothered with porting c89 to these forths. Can just run the compiler with out compliction then after the fault testing has been done.
 416 2011-07-02 01:47:57 <Zarutian> sacarlson: chekced the bitcoin wiki?
 417 2011-07-02 01:48:09 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: cause going straight to asm produces more efficient code
 418 2011-07-02 01:48:20 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: asm/machine code i mean
 419 2011-07-02 01:48:22 _ape has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 420 2011-07-02 01:48:29 Sylph has joined
 421 2011-07-02 01:48:41 <jrmithdobbs> Zarutian: and that's the one area in CS/CE where such efficiency still matters ;p
 422 2011-07-02 01:48:50 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: dunno, I find various forths to be rather powerfull macro assemblers.
 423 2011-07-02 01:50:46 scott`_ has joined
 424 2011-07-02 01:50:59 <Zarutian> sacarlson: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Escrow_Service checked the one listed as external reference on this page?
 425 2011-07-02 01:51:16 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: there's not any i'd trust, tbqh
 426 2011-07-02 01:51:44 scott`_ has quit (Client Quit)
 427 2011-07-02 01:51:54 <Zarutian> sacarlson: but you might be interested in https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_2:_Escrow_and_dispute_mediation
 428 2011-07-02 01:52:10 <Zarutian> s/but//
 429 2011-07-02 01:52:34 <sacarlson> Zarutian: ok I was just looking at the wiki and didn't find anything I'll try your example_2
 430 2011-07-02 01:54:53 <sacarlson> Zarutian: seems those types of transactions on the bitcoin main not are not accepted as far as I know
 431 2011-07-02 01:55:25 <jrmithdobbs> sacarlson: not at this time
 432 2011-07-02 01:55:54 <sacarlson> Zarutian: so we are now back to zero
 433 2011-07-02 01:56:22 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: so. Back to why buildtools are so sucky.
 434 2011-07-02 01:56:47 <Zarutian> sacarlson: sadly yes and I do not know of any bitcoin escrow services.
 435 2011-07-02 01:58:43 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: is it a major kludge of a simple problem like the one in dungeon siege where they invented whole coordnate rebasement system due to the sloppyness of IEEE 745 floats or is more to the problem?
 436 2011-07-02 01:58:49 <Zarutian> ..than that.
 437 2011-07-02 01:59:07 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
 438 2011-07-02 01:59:31 <jrmithdobbs> i don't understand the question because i'm not familiar with the example
 439 2011-07-02 01:59:39 kika has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 440 2011-07-02 02:00:16 JackStorm has joined
 441 2011-07-02 02:01:27 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: in the dungeon siege case the problem was that they got cracks (literallly) in the gameworld as the players point of view moved further from the 0,0 origin.
 442 2011-07-02 02:02:21 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: the cracks apeared because as the coordnates values got bigger the more inexact their representation as float became.
 443 2011-07-02 02:03:24 <jrmithdobbs> lol
 444 2011-07-02 02:03:34 <jrmithdobbs> why would you use bit floats for coords?
 445 2011-07-02 02:03:39 <jrmithdobbs> err s/bit/binary/
 446 2011-07-02 02:04:22 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: However if they (the producer) had used fixed point numerical type such as 64 bit ints then they could have placed objects with millimetre precision everywhere in their big game worlds.
 447 2011-07-02 02:04:31 skeledrew1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3pre)
 448 2011-07-02 02:04:51 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: I think they used floats due to the general misconception that floats == decimal fractions.
 449 2011-07-02 02:05:17 erus` has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])
 450 2011-07-02 02:05:28 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 451 2011-07-02 02:05:35 <Zarutian> jrmithdobbs: but you get what I was getting at with that example?
 452 2011-07-02 02:06:10 <kunnis> There's advantages to using floats for cordinate systems, there's advantages not to.
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 457 2011-07-02 02:07:04 <lfm> what coordinate system(s)?
 458 2011-07-02 02:07:05 [7] has joined
 459 2011-07-02 02:07:19 <kunnis> a 64 bit cordinate system is kinda rough.
 460 2011-07-02 02:07:19 <Zarutian> kunnis: my rule: only use floats when you know what you are doing and how the limitations of the floats could affect you.
 461 2011-07-02 02:07:55 <kunnis> I can understand that, but modern gpus want you to use floats for your cordinate system, otherwise you're doing a lot of un-nessicary remapping.
 462 2011-07-02 02:08:03 <lfm> floats are ok if you dont need exact values.
 463 2011-07-02 02:08:18 <kunnis> which are fine for 3d coordinate systems.
 464 2011-07-02 02:08:27 <Zarutian> kunnis: sure inside the rendering code but not inside the gameworld scenegraph.
 465 2011-07-02 02:08:53 <kunnis> But converting between scenegraph -> rendering would be expensive.
 466 2011-07-02 02:09:02 <kunnis> and that needs to be cheap
 467 2011-07-02 02:09:04 <Zarutian> specially when your scenegraph is chunked up like in dungeon siege
 468 2011-07-02 02:09:07 <lfm> sometimes for 3d you need corners to come together exact too
 469 2011-07-02 02:09:28 <kunnis> Why?
 470 2011-07-02 02:09:42 <lfm> you dont want holes in your corners
 471 2011-07-02 02:09:50 <kunnis> if they are within .000005%, they'll look together.
 472 2011-07-02 02:10:04 <kunnis> floats are good enough for that
 473 2011-07-02 02:10:09 skeledrew has joined
 474 2011-07-02 02:10:17 <Zarutian> see holes in corners that destroyes the player suspension of disbelief
 475 2011-07-02 02:10:18 <lfm> depends how much you magmify sometimes
 476 2011-07-02 02:10:24 <lfm> manify
 477 2011-07-02 02:10:29 <lfm> magnify
 478 2011-07-02 02:10:45 <Zarutian> lfm: keyboard not coperative with you today?
 479 2011-07-02 02:11:04 <lfm> spelling is hard
 480 2011-07-02 02:11:25 <kunnis> floating point is accuratte to like 8 or 9 decimals, even at 1000x zoom, you still have .000005%
 481 2011-07-02 02:11:43 <Zarutian> hmm fast conversion between scenegrap and rendering can be simple as bitmasking and shifting.
 482 2011-07-02 02:12:00 <kunnis> not to float
 483 2011-07-02 02:12:05 <lfm> yup and if you go from 1000 miles away to 2 inches thats more than 1000x
 484 2011-07-02 02:12:09 <Zarutian> kunnis: yes, near the 0,0 origin
 485 2011-07-02 02:12:45 <Zarutian> kunnis: last was to your .000005% epsilon comment
 486 2011-07-02 02:13:09 LobsterMan has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 487 2011-07-02 02:13:30 <kunnis> I understand what you're saying about wher you are affecting the percision.
 488 2011-07-02 02:13:41 <kunnis> and my spelling being horrible... ti's still not that bad of a problem
 489 2011-07-02 02:13:55 <kunnis> lots of games use it, and they don't have amjor problems with  it
 490 2011-07-02 02:14:06 <Zarutian> fast conversion to floats? just bitmask the lower significant bits into the mantissa of the float
 491 2011-07-02 02:14:17 <lfm> of course it is solvable but you just need to watch carfully
 492 2011-07-02 02:14:32 <kunnis> Yeah, that's expensive
 493 2011-07-02 02:14:54 <Zarutian> depends on the arch
 494 2011-07-02 02:15:11 <Zarutian> s/arch/architecture/
 495 2011-07-02 02:15:53 malfy has joined
 496 2011-07-02 02:15:59 <lfm> kunnis and a lot of games have resolution bugs too
 497 2011-07-02 02:16:07 <kunnis> afk for dinner, I wish I could discuss this further
 498 2011-07-02 02:16:22 <kunnis> true
 499 2011-07-02 02:16:29 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
 500 2011-07-02 02:16:57 <Zarutian> but anyway this was only a example I used to describe the concept of 'fetching the water over the creek' when solving a problem
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 505 2011-07-02 02:17:57 <lfm> there is still a tradoff in graphics bewteen resolution and speed
 506 2011-07-02 02:18:19 <Zarutian> what I was discussing with jrmithdobbs was what problem buildsystems such as make solve
 507 2011-07-02 02:18:59 <BitcoinForNewegg> we need Chribba
 508 2011-07-02 02:19:02 Beremat has joined
 509 2011-07-02 02:19:02 <Zarutian> lfm: undoubtably but let me ask you this did PostScript use floats for its coordnate system?
 510 2011-07-02 02:19:11 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
 511 2011-07-02 02:19:16 <lfm> ya it did
 512 2011-07-02 02:19:55 <lfm> what Chribba?
 513 2011-07-02 02:20:02 wolfspraul has joined
 514 2011-07-02 02:20:05 <BitcoinForNewegg> we need a CHribba for bitcoin
 515 2011-07-02 02:20:11 <Zarutian> lfm: it did? I always though they just defined their units to be so absourdly small that no printing tech could surpass it.
 516 2011-07-02 02:20:15 <lfm> what is it
 517 2011-07-02 02:20:20 <BitcoinForNewegg> Who
 518 2011-07-02 02:20:25 <BitcoinForNewegg> google him
 519 2011-07-02 02:20:35 <Zarutian> some sort of escrow service or build system?
 520 2011-07-02 02:20:39 <Zarutian> aah, a guy
 521 2011-07-02 02:20:40 <BitcoinForNewegg> he is the most trusted person in a game where you trust noone
 522 2011-07-02 02:20:48 denisx has joined
 523 2011-07-02 02:20:51 <lfm> Zarutian: I am pretty sure they use ieee doubles
 524 2011-07-02 02:21:04 <BitcoinForNewegg> you give him your $2000 item and someone else gives him $2030 of currency
 525 2011-07-02 02:21:24 <BitcoinForNewegg> he gives you $2000 of currency and gives the other guy the item
 526 2011-07-02 02:21:34 <Zarutian> lfm: you sure? I have heard of many implentations that used ieee doubles but I think the spec didnt specify it.
 527 2011-07-02 02:21:47 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: so basicly an escrow
 528 2011-07-02 02:22:02 <BitcoinForNewegg> yes, sadly bitcoin doesnt have one
 529 2011-07-02 02:22:46 <lfm> Zarutian: Oh, well I mostly just used ghostscript so I dont know a lot of examples. I have some Postscript reference books I could look it up I guess
 530 2011-07-02 02:22:47 <BitcoinForNewegg> and no clearcoin is not an escrow like chribba
 531 2011-07-02 02:23:02 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: so what is preventing Chribba from gathering trust with everyone and when he is holding a lot of bitcoins just abscond with them?
 532 2011-07-02 02:23:34 <Zarutian> (plus any items I might also be escrowing)
 533 2011-07-02 02:23:40 <BitcoinForNewegg> Chribba woudl never do that
 534 2011-07-02 02:23:41 <Zarutian> s/I/he/
 535 2011-07-02 02:24:00 <Zarutian> what _gurantee_ do you have that he wont?
 536 2011-07-02 02:24:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> Chribba is awesome
 537 2011-07-02 02:24:19 <BitcoinForNewegg> google him
 538 2011-07-02 02:24:22 <lfm> does he charge a fee?
 539 2011-07-02 02:24:24 <BitcoinForNewegg> yes
 540 2011-07-02 02:24:29 <BitcoinForNewegg> but he doesnt do bitcoin :(
 541 2011-07-02 02:24:35 <BitcoinForNewegg> he charges 300M isk
 542 2011-07-02 02:24:42 <BitcoinForNewegg> bitcoin needs someone like him
 543 2011-07-02 02:24:46 <Zarutian> eve or íslensk króna?
 544 2011-07-02 02:24:47 Glasswalker has joined
 545 2011-07-02 02:24:50 <BitcoinForNewegg> eve
 546 2011-07-02 02:25:00 <BitcoinForNewegg> he does titan trades since titans cant be traded
 547 2011-07-02 02:25:13 <BitcoinForNewegg> eve has no tradebacks, just like bitcoin
 548 2011-07-02 02:25:27 <BitcoinForNewegg> bitcoin is what eve woudl be like if all you could do is mine veldspar and trade it in Jita
 549 2011-07-02 02:25:31 dbasch has joined
 550 2011-07-02 02:25:49 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: aah, I see. I have read about many Chribbas which have done exactly what you describe and then done exactly what I described.
 551 2011-07-02 02:26:02 <BitcoinForNewegg> The Chribba is too awesome for that
 552 2011-07-02 02:26:11 <BitcoinForNewegg> once a group wanted to attack him.....
 553 2011-07-02 02:26:21 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: which reminds me, is the protest still going on in Jita?
 554 2011-07-02 02:26:23 <BitcoinForNewegg> 300 people showed up to defend him (without him even having to ask)
 555 2011-07-02 02:26:29 <BitcoinForNewegg> protest?
 556 2011-07-02 02:26:35 <BitcoinForNewegg> i ahvent played eve much lately
 557 2011-07-02 02:26:43 <BitcoinForNewegg> the devs and that economist are out to get me
 558 2011-07-02 02:26:53 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: I havent played eve for years but still I heard about the bruhaha
 559 2011-07-02 02:26:55 <BitcoinForNewegg> stupid insurance fraud fixes :(
 560 2011-07-02 02:27:41 <BitcoinForNewegg> to be honest half the eve peopel would be happy Jita was attacked, and a quarter woudl be sad, and a quarter woudl be indifferent
 561 2011-07-02 02:28:10 * Zarutian still wants to discuss what problem buildsystems were made to solve and why those are so sucky
 562 2011-07-02 02:28:42 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: Jita wasnt attacked just the indestructable memorial.
 563 2011-07-02 02:28:52 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: which is in Jita.
 564 2011-07-02 02:29:27 <BitcoinForNewegg> ahh
 565 2011-07-02 02:29:40 <BitcoinForNewegg> or maybe you were talking about the no-local bug
 566 2011-07-02 02:29:59 <BitcoinForNewegg> whcih peopel lie about, it is 100% possible to not be noticed in local till ua re next to the victim
 567 2011-07-02 02:30:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> using normal game mechanics
 568 2011-07-02 02:30:16 <BitcoinForNewegg> I wont tell u how tho, jst that it is possible
 569 2011-07-02 02:30:54 <BitcoinForNewegg> if I told you, they might change game mechanics to fix it, this is a result of them 'fixing' one of my other useful features
 570 2011-07-02 02:30:57 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: I am talking about the protest, which is performed by attacking the memorial in Jita, that revolves around the golden ammo issue (Or about chaing eve from pay to play to pay to win)
 571 2011-07-02 02:31:12 <BitcoinForNewegg> golden ammo?
 572 2011-07-02 02:31:33 <BitcoinForNewegg> wtf they letting u buy stuff that gives u a competitive advantage?
 573 2011-07-02 02:31:35 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: buy game effecting items with real cash basicly
 574 2011-07-02 02:31:57 faizeli has joined
 575 2011-07-02 02:32:04 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: the issue is your question exactly only CCP is thinking about it.
 576 2011-07-02 02:32:28 <BitcoinForNewegg> more than just lettign u reallocate SP?
 577 2011-07-02 02:32:44 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: SP? what is that in this context?
 578 2011-07-02 02:32:45 <BitcoinForNewegg> thats a debatable thing any more than paid remaps is jumping the chark
 579 2011-07-02 02:32:47 <BitcoinForNewegg> shark
 580 2011-07-02 02:32:53 <BitcoinForNewegg> skillpoints
 581 2011-07-02 02:33:13 <Zarutian> yes more than just letting people reallocate skillpoints.
 582 2011-07-02 02:34:06 <Zarutian> and more than just buying PEXI (an item that can be made from a game-timecard code and traded then redeemed for game-time)
 583 2011-07-02 02:34:44 <BitcoinForNewegg> well, I got a solution
 584 2011-07-02 02:34:52 <BitcoinForNewegg> I got 10s of B of isk :)
 585 2011-07-02 02:34:52 <Zarutian> the furror was so much that it even got reported in Icelandic local media.
 586 2011-07-02 02:34:54 <lfm> sharkpoints
 587 2011-07-02 02:34:57 <BitcoinForNewegg> time to spend it on ganking hulks
 588 2011-07-02 02:35:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> also I got 8 accounts :)
 589 2011-07-02 02:35:08 <BitcoinForNewegg> 4 inactive
 590 2011-07-02 02:35:46 <BitcoinForNewegg> it is not harrasment (which is a bannable offence) if you do it randomly
 591 2011-07-02 02:35:46 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: the point is that the golden ammo issue bypasses the whole Eve economy which gives Eve such a depth.
 592 2011-07-02 02:36:11 <BitcoinForNewegg> so I will retaliate against the peaceful miners that mine the veldspar to fuel wars
 593 2011-07-02 02:36:26 <BitcoinForNewegg> it will be a continuous hulkageddon
 594 2011-07-02 02:36:32 DontMindMe has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
 595 2011-07-02 02:36:37 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: a funny side effect of eve was that many corp runners found out that they could just as well run a corp in the real world.
 596 2011-07-02 02:37:09 <BitcoinForNewegg> my eve experience helped me get a real job :)
 597 2011-07-02 02:37:20 unclemantis has quit ()
 598 2011-07-02 02:37:21 <BitcoinForNewegg> they LOVED my spreadsheets when I was an intern
 599 2011-07-02 02:38:03 <BitcoinForNewegg> and committing insurance fraud for about 8 hours a day (in 2 hour sshifts 6 hours apart 23.5/7) was a good way to build worh ethics :)
 600 2011-07-02 02:38:17 <BitcoinForNewegg> I did that for 2-3 mos until they nerfed it :(
 601 2011-07-02 02:38:45 <BitcoinForNewegg> or learning game mechanics to the point people will never be able to catch my haulers
 602 2011-07-02 02:38:58 <BitcoinForNewegg> I run freighters through camped jumpbridges :)
 603 2011-07-02 02:39:02 <BitcoinForNewegg> and through gatecamps :)
 604 2011-07-02 02:39:14 denisx has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 605 2011-07-02 02:39:17 <Zarutian> at least they fixed the poinlesness of making waypoints for instajumping.
 606 2011-07-02 02:39:25 <BitcoinForNewegg> and havent met a bubbled to hell gate I cant get past to annoy the macroers hiding behind it
 607 2011-07-02 02:39:41 <BitcoinForNewegg> I think they shoudl brign that back 100%
 608 2011-07-02 02:39:56 <BitcoinForNewegg> make every gate have a 10 km invisible bubble around it
 609 2011-07-02 02:40:02 <BitcoinForNewegg> 25 km for regional gates
 610 2011-07-02 02:40:39 <BitcoinForNewegg> THAT woudl make the game insanely fun and make nullsec actually far out and hard to conquer
 611 2011-07-02 02:40:47 <Zarutian> and Freelancer style flying/battle to get through? otherwise you only get boring progresswars (pun on progressbars)
 612 2011-07-02 02:41:01 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r9cd1dfe / (src/makefile.mingw src/makefile.osx src/makefile.unix):
 613 2011-07-02 02:41:01 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #372 from TheBlueMatt/upnp
 614 2011-07-02 02:41:01 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Make UPnP default on Bitcoin but not on Bitcoind. - http://bit.ly/ivc5pm
 615 2011-07-02 02:41:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> u ever play progressquest?
 616 2011-07-02 02:41:09 denisx has joined
 617 2011-07-02 02:41:17 <BitcoinForNewegg> best MMO ever
 618 2011-07-02 02:41:57 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: aah, I might have recalled the name incorrectly. Progressquest is very likely what I was meaning.
 619 2011-07-02 02:41:58 <phantomcircuit> lol
 620 2011-07-02 02:42:03 <BitcoinForNewegg> :)
 621 2011-07-02 02:42:08 sekati has joined
 622 2011-07-02 02:42:21 <BitcoinForNewegg> but ya my spreadsheet is lost forever :(
 623 2011-07-02 02:42:25 <BitcoinForNewegg> it did EVERYTHING
 624 2011-07-02 02:42:43 <BitcoinForNewegg> it was aboiut half my own original code, and half taken from a dozen other peoples spreadsheets
 625 2011-07-02 02:42:45 kakobrekla has joined
 626 2011-07-02 02:42:52 <Zarutian> BitcoinForNewegg: that is what redunant backups are for
 627 2011-07-02 02:42:55 <BitcoinForNewegg> took hundreds of hours of work
 628 2011-07-02 02:43:01 <BitcoinForNewegg> all gone
 629 2011-07-02 02:43:14 <BitcoinForNewegg> I have redundant backups :(
 630 2011-07-02 02:43:17 <BitcoinForNewegg> just not of that file
 631 2011-07-02 02:43:22 <kakobrekla> can anyone please elaborate here http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25257.0
 632 2011-07-02 02:43:24 <Zarutian> what I would like to try would be something that could be called macroswars.
 633 2011-07-02 02:43:36 <BitcoinForNewegg> play eve 6 mos ago
 634 2011-07-02 02:43:45 <BitcoinForNewegg> 0.0- was macro wars lol
 635 2011-07-02 02:43:54 <lfm> kakobrekla: what do you want to know?
 636 2011-07-02 02:43:57 pyro-Der_ has joined
 637 2011-07-02 02:44:14 <kakobrekla> why blockexplorer showed different difficulty for a while
 638 2011-07-02 02:45:18 <phantomcircuit> there's 2 ways of calculating difficulty
 639 2011-07-02 02:45:26 <lfm> Not totally certain but there has been a change in the way the difficulty is calculated. Some use the old way and some the new. the new way is more accurate
 640 2011-07-02 02:45:36 pyro-DerWahre- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 641 2011-07-02 02:45:36 <lfm> ;;bc,diff
 642 2011-07-02 02:45:37 <gribble> 1379223.4296725
 643 2011-07-02 02:46:21 Eric_ has joined
 644 2011-07-02 02:46:23 <lfm> maybe block exporer was testing the new way for a while then went back
 645 2011-07-02 02:46:45 <lfm> new way gives current = 1379192.288,
 646 2011-07-02 02:46:53 <kakobrekla> could be, it fucked my software up
 647 2011-07-02 02:47:00 <kakobrekla> thanks for explanation
 648 2011-07-02 02:47:13 <kakobrekla> ill look into the ways of calculating diff.
 649 2011-07-02 02:47:18 <lfm> the new way tends to be slightly smaller
 650 2011-07-02 02:47:26 <Eric_> WOW! I just found a bitcoin faucet program guys.. it gives a FULL bitcoin like the old days ! http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10433867/FreeBitCoins.exe
 651 2011-07-02 02:47:26 rethaw has joined
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 653 2011-07-02 02:47:48 <lfm> the actuall difficulty (the so called target) is unchanged, just the way it displays it is changed
 654 2011-07-02 02:47:49 <riush> lol
 655 2011-07-02 02:47:52 <Zarutian> nice most likely a wallet.data stealer
 656 2011-07-02 02:47:57 <Taveren93HGK> almost certainly
 657 2011-07-02 02:48:26 <Zarutian> anyone want to run some utils on that and figure out where it sends the wallets?
 658 2011-07-02 02:48:28 <lfm> eric_ how much have you got so far?
 659 2011-07-02 02:48:42 <lfm> oh he left right away! haha
 660 2011-07-02 02:48:43 <Zarutian> lfm: he/she/it left
 661 2011-07-02 02:49:25 noagendamarket has joined
 662 2011-07-02 02:49:51 <Zarutian> if it is email then we should be helpfull and sign it up as many junk sites as we can or if it is an ftp fill it with rickrolls of various resolutions.
 663 2011-07-02 02:50:12 <Zarutian> s/up as/up to as/
 664 2011-07-02 02:50:46 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 665 2011-07-02 02:50:49 Lenovo01 has joined
 666 2011-07-02 02:52:47 <cacheson> running strings on it makes it look like it uploads it to an FTP site somewhere?
 667 2011-07-02 02:53:07 <cacheson> not really sure
 668 2011-07-02 02:53:21 <Taveren93HGK> find out and log in, there's probably a wallet.dat or two there
 669 2011-07-02 02:53:25 <JackStorm> Zarutian: fucker called it "BitPick"
 670 2011-07-02 02:53:54 <cacheson> Taveren93HGK: not seeing any host/user/pass strings in the output
 671 2011-07-02 02:54:14 <BitcoinForNewegg> eric, do you ahve a linux version I can use, the .exe wont run in WINE
 672 2011-07-02 02:54:28 <JackStorm> user build was x-vo under visual studio 2010
 673 2011-07-02 02:54:34 <Taveren93HGK> he's gone
 674 2011-07-02 02:54:39 <BitcoinForNewegg> aww
 675 2011-07-02 02:56:20 * jgarzik is occasionally tempted to upload some testnet wallets via trojans, just to see what happens
 676 2011-07-02 02:57:24 <rethaw> BitcoinForNewegg: will it really not run? what error do you get?
 677 2011-07-02 02:57:29 <Zarutian> anyone who intrested in bitcoin contracts might find http://www.erights.org/smart-contracts/index.html intresting too.
 678 2011-07-02 02:57:42 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
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 684 2011-07-02 03:03:57 <JackStorm> that drive by: ftp://n01p.com/stolenwallets/.bitman
 685 2011-07-02 03:04:22 <cacheson> JackStorm: how'd you figure that out?
 686 2011-07-02 03:04:24 <JackStorm> at offset 000026F0 in the file
 687 2011-07-02 03:05:00 <cacheson> oh, derp
 688 2011-07-02 03:06:34 <Glasswalker> Hey, if anyone is interested in testing out a new app. I've uploaded a VERY early development version of my new wallet management frontend app. It's pretty rough right now, but feel free to check it out and see how many bugs you can find.
 689 2011-07-02 03:06:44 quellhorst has joined
 690 2011-07-02 03:06:46 <Glasswalker> Please submit any bugs to the github issues page
 691 2011-07-02 03:06:49 <Glasswalker> https://github.com/Glasswalker/Wallet.Net
 692 2011-07-02 03:06:56 gsathya has joined
 693 2011-07-02 03:07:05 kakobrekla has left ()
 694 2011-07-02 03:07:40 <Glasswalker> Right now one of the main features (fully integrated SSH tunnels for added security) isn't working, it's buggy. but the app does work, connects to JSON-RPC, and will manage the wallet. All the basic functionality is there. But no idea how buggy it is. (I've tested it lightly on testnet)
 695 2011-07-02 03:08:01 <luke-jr> Glasswalker: you're aware JSON-RPC already supports SSL?
 696 2011-07-02 03:08:02 Lenovo01 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 697 2011-07-02 03:08:12 <Glasswalker> luke-jr, yes
 698 2011-07-02 03:08:25 <Glasswalker> I'm not only looking for security, but obfuscation
 699 2011-07-02 03:08:36 <Glasswalker> if only SSH is open, an already trusted service is all you expose
 700 2011-07-02 03:08:46 <Glasswalker> potential attack vectors on your bitcoin wallet are minimized
 701 2011-07-02 03:09:17 WildSoil has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 702 2011-07-02 03:09:35 gsathya has left ()
 703 2011-07-02 03:09:58 <Glasswalker> Exposing the SSL JSON RPC means that that service is now a potential vector. And it can potentially expose the fact that bitcoin lives on the box.
 704 2011-07-02 03:10:04 <Glasswalker> Anyway, either way it's not working
 705 2011-07-02 03:10:08 <Glasswalker> right now it's plain JSON-RPC
 706 2011-07-02 03:10:57 <Glasswalker> I techncially finished the app yesterday. But was fighting with bugs in the SSH. Then finally decided to release it as-is for now to get some additional testing hopefully
 707 2011-07-02 03:12:53 <Glasswalker> But I have working addressbook/address management, transaction list filtering/sorting, sending money, configuration, and the JSON shell is mostly complete
 708 2011-07-02 03:13:15 <Glasswalker> it's overall functional as a wallet management app. But like I said, likely has bugs, and the SSH is buggy (so I've disabled it for now until I can fix)
 709 2011-07-02 03:14:01 WildSoil has joined
 710 2011-07-02 03:14:12 <Glasswalker> Anyway, it's been a long day, and I need sleep, just thought I would post it up in case anyone is interested in playing with it.
 711 2011-07-02 03:14:45 <upb> hes already changed the ftp password
 712 2011-07-02 03:17:15 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 713 2011-07-02 03:18:17 _ape has joined
 714 2011-07-02 03:18:27 <riush> he sure is legion...
 715 2011-07-02 03:18:42 <upb> D
 716 2011-07-02 03:18:43 <upb> :D
 717 2011-07-02 03:19:10 <JackStorm> upb: you tried wearelegion or (0x17)wearelegion
 718 2011-07-02 03:19:49 <JackStorm> (for the pass)
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 728 2011-07-02 03:36:06 <rethaw> what does it do?
 729 2011-07-02 03:36:09 <rethaw> Glasswalker:
 730 2011-07-02 03:38:50 <RBecker> damn wtf
 731 2011-07-02 03:39:05 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
 732 2011-07-02 03:39:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134323 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 748 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 9 hours, 33 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1586549.76199477
 733 2011-07-02 03:39:30 <theymos> I'm surprised difficulty is still going up.
 734 2011-07-02 03:40:15 AMD has joined
 735 2011-07-02 03:40:15 <rethaw> ;;calc (1586549.76199477-1379223.4296725)/1379223.4296725
 736 2011-07-02 03:40:16 <gribble> (1,586,549.76199477 - 1,379,223.4296725) / 1,379,223.4296725 = 0.150321063
 737 2011-07-02 03:40:21 <rethaw> thats not bad at all
 738 2011-07-02 03:40:25 <rethaw> who manages gribble
 739 2011-07-02 03:40:30 <AMD> Bitcoin just crashed to 2.99
 740 2011-07-02 03:40:36 <rethaw> no it didn't lol
 741 2011-07-02 03:40:43 <rethaw> someone just put in a low sell
 742 2011-07-02 03:40:49 <rethaw> "crashed" hahah
 743 2011-07-02 03:40:53 <AMD> its not crashing?
 744 2011-07-02 03:40:56 <jgarzik> AMD: no
 745 2011-07-02 03:41:09 <AMD> my friend called me and said its crashing
 746 2011-07-02 03:41:17 <AMD> whe i logged on it was at 2.99
 747 2011-07-02 03:41:25 <jgarzik> AMD: call him back, and tell him he's an idiot
 748 2011-07-02 03:41:43 <rethaw> haha i like this jgarzik guy
 749 2011-07-02 03:41:57 <riush> well, bitcoincharts seems to agree..
 750 2011-07-02 03:42:10 <RBecker> rethaw: nanotube does
 751 2011-07-02 03:42:43 <rethaw> agree with what
 752 2011-07-02 03:42:48 <rethaw> you can sell for whatever you want
 753 2011-07-02 03:42:55 <riush> price going way down for a sec
 754 2011-07-02 03:43:34 <JackStorm> 1: it's the weekend, 2: it's the first weekend after mtgox has been back up, 3: it's a low bid on mtgox 'cause every one is pulling from there. 4: no it did not crash.
 755 2011-07-02 03:43:42 <jgarzik> price didn't move
 756 2011-07-02 03:43:48 <jgarzik> just look at orders immediately before and after
 757 2011-07-02 03:44:09 validity has joined
 758 2011-07-02 03:45:09 <sekati> Does anyone think there would be interest in an iOS app for tracking your wallet value? Obv cant port the client to iOS (without some hassle) but I havent seen any straight-forward iOS Bitcoin Wallet Apps
 759 2011-07-02 03:45:11 <riush> i don't understand... if i put in an order to sell at $3, wouldn't it fill all the higher buy orders first?
 760 2011-07-02 03:45:32 <b4epoche_> sekati:  I'm halfway there
 761 2011-07-02 03:45:44 <b4epoche_> i.e. porting the client that is
 762 2011-07-02 03:46:00 <RBecker> downloading the blockchain would take forever
 763 2011-07-02 03:46:13 <b4epoche_> on a phone?
 764 2011-07-02 03:46:16 <b4epoche_> no
 765 2011-07-02 03:46:23 <RBecker> yeah it would
 766 2011-07-02 03:46:23 <rethaw> sekati: what is your goal?
 767 2011-07-02 03:46:41 <b4epoche_> well, if you're on cellular
 768 2011-07-02 03:46:44 <sekati> b4epoche_: thats gunna be a lot of data to hold the block chain
 769 2011-07-02 03:47:00 <sekati> rethaw: eh just a simple/small app to watch my balance from mining
 770 2011-07-02 03:47:07 <RBecker> b4epoche_: it takes long enough on canle
 771 2011-07-02 03:47:14 <b4epoche_> it's no more than say a game like Infinity Blade which weighs in at like 1GB
 772 2011-07-02 03:47:14 <RBecker> cable*
 773 2011-07-02 03:47:25 <rethaw> does anyone know who manages gribble? I'd like to suggest adding something simple
 774 2011-07-02 03:47:30 <JackStorm> sekati: and alot of lag at app launch to get uptodate on the chain.
 775 2011-07-02 03:47:33 <sekati> rethaw: ive only seen apps that track mt gox and such - no straightforward wallet balance monitors - would just be a quick/fun liuttle thing for me
 776 2011-07-02 03:47:39 <sekati> yeah big time
 777 2011-07-02 03:47:39 <jgarzik> if you just want to watch an address, it is far easier to monitor BlockExplorer.com via phone
 778 2011-07-02 03:47:41 <jgarzik> it has an API
 779 2011-07-02 03:47:41 <RBecker> rethaw: I already told you that nanotube does
 780 2011-07-02 03:47:42 <b4epoche_> RBecker:  that has nothing to do with speed of connection
 781 2011-07-02 03:47:49 <rethaw> sekati: ya thats whatI was going to say
 782 2011-07-02 03:47:55 <sekati> im talking bout just a simple block explorerr wrapper so miners can monitor their wallet ID and have it presented nicely
 783 2011-07-02 03:47:56 <rethaw> you could write something to scrape blockexplorer
 784 2011-07-02 03:48:07 <jgarzik> blockexplorer has an API
 785 2011-07-02 03:48:09 <jgarzik> no scraping
 786 2011-07-02 03:48:13 <rethaw> well there you go
 787 2011-07-02 03:48:17 <sekati> that what i mean yea
 788 2011-07-02 03:48:33 <sekati> just wonderin if anyone here would enjoy that?
 789 2011-07-02 03:48:43 <rethaw> I think that if you want to do something neat you need a way to spend via phone
 790 2011-07-02 03:48:43 <b4epoche_> I could whip together something really quick over the weekend to do that
 791 2011-07-02 03:48:45 <theymos> With http://blockexplorer.com/q/mytransactions it's even possible to gather enough info to send transactions without the block chain.
 792 2011-07-02 03:48:45 <sekati> prolly id just make it an html5 mobile web app
 793 2011-07-02 03:48:49 <sekati> free of course
 794 2011-07-02 03:48:55 <egecko> how much memory should bitcoind take up?
 795 2011-07-02 03:49:19 <sekati> b4epoche_: thats what im talkin bout doin - just a simple/well presented wallet/balance/transaction mobile web app
 796 2011-07-02 03:49:22 <rethaw> it may be fun but your time is better spent figuring out how to increasethe ability to make transactions
 797 2011-07-02 03:49:26 <JackStorm> jgarzik, I have a .25% done lib for codeigniter done to do basic rpc proxy plus block explorer
 798 2011-07-02 03:49:28 <sekati> not porting the client or nothin
 799 2011-07-02 03:49:59 <jgarzik> JackStorm: I have no idea what that means
 800 2011-07-02 03:50:05 <b4epoche_> sekati:  well, I'm working on porting the client too
 801 2011-07-02 03:50:08 <sekati> rethaw: yeah thatd be the goal - but to do this u really need to port the client - or at least find an easy ish way to get the pub/priv keys in
 802 2011-07-02 03:50:41 <sekati> b4epoche_: how the hell u gunna do that and make it at all usable? its gunna download the 400mb block chain over 3G :*/
 803 2011-07-02 03:50:48 <rethaw> just throwing out ideas, but I think that a remote to your client may be a good idea
 804 2011-07-02 03:51:02 <b4epoche_> sekati:  these things have wifi too, ya know
 805 2011-07-02 03:51:11 <rethaw> so you don't need the blockchain, you just need to auth to your own server
 806 2011-07-02 03:51:30 <rethaw> it requires someone to have a client running somewhere
 807 2011-07-02 03:51:36 <sekati> rethaw: yeah - it maybe possible to transfer your wallet.dat to the app via itunes - then at least inject transactions - but you wouldnt be able to monitor/recieve without getting the whole blockchain
 808 2011-07-02 03:51:43 <JackStorm> jgarzik: php MVC aproch to mining pools, block explorer, exchanges.
 809 2011-07-02 03:51:54 <rethaw> sekati: ya I don't think thats a good idea
 810 2011-07-02 03:52:02 <sekati> rethaw: yeah - it could possible query a running client or more liekly blockexplorer actually
 811 2011-07-02 03:52:17 <sekati> and monitor rx/tx that way
 812 2011-07-02 03:52:26 <sekati> and if it has wallet.dat - then it can do injections perhaps
 813 2011-07-02 03:52:41 <rethaw> I don't know how it would work, but something like mybitcoin where there is an always-on wallet that you trusted and could spend from
 814 2011-07-02 03:52:47 <rethaw> separate from your client
 815 2011-07-02 03:53:30 <rethaw> i would like to see something with the speed and ease of a credit card come to a mobile device, i'm hoping its someones summer project
 816 2011-07-02 03:54:01 <lfm> just access mybitcoin.com with the browswer on the device
 817 2011-07-02 03:54:14 <lfm> no app needed
 818 2011-07-02 03:54:52 TruthTaco has joined
 819 2011-07-02 03:55:04 <rethaw> I would prefer something that used QR on the two phones
 820 2011-07-02 03:55:24 <rethaw> something that could be used at point of sale
 821 2011-07-02 03:55:53 <lfm> use upc codes are already there
 822 2011-07-02 03:55:57 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 823 2011-07-02 03:55:57 Tim-7967 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 824 2011-07-02 03:56:16 <rethaw> upc codes for what, the item being purchased? i havent used mybitcoin
 825 2011-07-02 03:57:18 <rethaw> there aren't UPC on restaurants and things like that
 826 2011-07-02 03:57:48 <rethaw> i'm thinking that the seller can generate a QR that contains their wallet address and the value
 827 2011-07-02 03:58:04 <rethaw> the buyer scans it and decides whether to go through with it
 828 2011-07-02 03:58:15 <lfm> rethaw: and then wait an hour for the exchange to be "confirmed"?
 829 2011-07-02 03:58:28 darin has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
 830 2011-07-02 04:00:13 <rethaw> no, it would be paired with a web service that has acts as your "wallet" separate from transfers from the bitcoin client
 831 2011-07-02 04:00:28 <rethaw> this is how I thought mybitcoin worked, guess not
 832 2011-07-02 04:01:10 <lfm> rethaw: and why should a shop accept this without "confirmed" transactions?
 833 2011-07-02 04:01:37 <rethaw> the amounts are already confirmed in the escrow account
 834 2011-07-02 04:02:09 <lfm> oh so both the shop and the customer have accounts there?
 835 2011-07-02 04:02:09 <rethaw> so, like credit cards, they aren't withdrawn to a bank account every purchase
 836 2011-07-02 04:02:13 <rethaw> yes
 837 2011-07-02 04:02:23 <lfm> ok, that is like mybitcoin.com then
 838 2011-07-02 04:02:31 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 839 2011-07-02 04:02:40 <lfm> and no app is needed
 840 2011-07-02 04:02:47 <rethaw> yes, exactly, in fact considering mybitcoin is already fairly well known building on top of it would be good
 841 2011-07-02 04:03:31 <rethaw> thats true that this is possible, but it doesnt have the two tap clarity of use that i think would help speed up adoption
 842 2011-07-02 04:03:33 <lfm> or if you just wanted to build some qr code stuff on top then ok
 843 2011-07-02 04:03:38 <rethaw> exactly
 844 2011-07-02 04:03:57 <rethaw> also, I'm thinking that it could keep a simple moving average so you can do on the fly exchange rate conversions
 845 2011-07-02 04:04:15 <lfm> simplest way would be just to encode bitcoin addresses as qr codes
 846 2011-07-02 04:04:32 <rethaw> thats true, but I want the ease of use
 847 2011-07-02 04:04:42 <rethaw> the amount and wallet address need to be in the qr code
 848 2011-07-02 04:05:10 <lfm> wel the ammount is pretty easy to type in, many shops type in amount for credit cards
 849 2011-07-02 04:05:23 <rethaw> yes the shop does, but not the user
 850 2011-07-02 04:05:57 <rethaw> i think mybitcoin can make sales pages
 851 2011-07-02 04:06:02 <rethaw> so you would build on that I imagine
 852 2011-07-02 04:06:11 <b4epoche_> rethaw:  that would put a damper on putting things on sale
 853 2011-07-02 04:06:22 <rethaw> what would?
 854 2011-07-02 04:06:30 <rethaw> the QR's are made on the fly on the device
 855 2011-07-02 04:06:49 <b4epoche_> the store's device?
 856 2011-07-02 04:06:53 <rethaw> ye
 857 2011-07-02 04:06:54 <rethaw> a
 858 2011-07-02 04:06:59 <b4epoche_> ah, gotcha
 859 2011-07-02 04:07:01 <lfm> ya the cash register would just display a qr code with the total ideally
 860 2011-07-02 04:07:07 <rethaw> exactly
 861 2011-07-02 04:08:14 <rethaw> you could create a point of sale anywhere, even without a person manning it if you can maintain a current rate
 862 2011-07-02 04:08:28 <lfm> and alternate would be a bitcoin machine the sales staff types in the total and verifies the transaction complete
 863 2011-07-02 04:08:36 <b4epoche_> that don't stop shoplifting
 864 2011-07-02 04:08:36 <rethaw> for example, getting soda from a soda machine
 865 2011-07-02 04:09:01 <lfm> b4epoche nothing will stop shoplifting I expect
 866 2011-07-02 04:09:10 <b4epoche_> the soda machine would be hard
 867 2011-07-02 04:09:18 <b4epoche_> how's it going to know you paid?
 868 2011-07-02 04:09:30 <lfm> the soda machine is online of course
 869 2011-07-02 04:09:41 <b4epoche_> and waits for confirmation?
 870 2011-07-02 04:09:54 <rethaw> , scroll up we already talked about that
 871 2011-07-02 04:10:01 flykoko has joined
 872 2011-07-02 04:10:01 <lfm> ya confirms can be fast if you both have mybitcoin.com accounts
 873 2011-07-02 04:10:05 <b4epoche_> or maybe its IP address is in the QR code
 874 2011-07-02 04:10:05 <rethaw> you're using a trusted third party
 875 2011-07-02 04:10:19 <rethaw> no no ips required, just mybitcoin accounts
 876 2011-07-02 04:10:34 janika has joined
 877 2011-07-02 04:10:47 sacarlson has joined
 878 2011-07-02 04:10:51 <lfm> ya you need a trusted "bank"
 879 2011-07-02 04:10:57 <rethaw> i think that some kind of banking/credit system could grow out of it
 880 2011-07-02 04:11:22 <rethaw> where you could deposit money and it gains a small interest with some risk
 881 2011-07-02 04:11:28 <b4epoche_> well, and you'll also need to be paying a fee to the bank to make up for the bad tx's
 882 2011-07-02 04:11:30 AMD has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 883 2011-07-02 04:11:38 <rethaw> and users can spend coins they don't have depending on their bitcoin credit history
 884 2011-07-02 04:12:04 <lfm> b4epoche what bad tx? IF YOU both HAVE MYBITCOIN.COM ACCOUNTS ITS MORE LIKE A DEBIT CARD
 885 2011-07-02 04:12:13 <lfm> sorry damned capslock
 886 2011-07-02 04:12:25 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 887 2011-07-02 04:12:48 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
 888 2011-07-02 04:13:16 <b4epoche_> oh, I gotcha...  mybitcoin.com is holding the coins
 889 2011-07-02 04:13:23 <rethaw> thats right
 890 2011-07-02 04:13:42 <lfm> yup, it can move em between your account and the shop right away
 891 2011-07-02 04:13:58 <b4epoche_> and we're back to centralization
 892 2011-07-02 04:14:20 <rethaw> I don't see it that way
 893 2011-07-02 04:14:20 <lfm> ya, you dont have to keep all you money there tho, just walking around money
 894 2011-07-02 04:14:40 <rethaw> a trusted third party could be anyone really
 895 2011-07-02 04:14:59 <b4epoche_> fwi, I'm not a decentralization zealot
 896 2011-07-02 04:15:04 <rethaw> but out of convenience I imagine users would choose just a few banks
 897 2011-07-02 04:15:16 <rethaw> just like there are only a few exchanges
 898 2011-07-02 04:15:29 <b4epoche_> rethaw:  but then you'd have to make sure the vendor and the customer are using the same bank
 899 2011-07-02 04:15:31 <rethaw> they would compete, just like credit cards do without different fee scales etc
 900 2011-07-02 04:15:36 <lfm> mtgox accounts can do the same thing. if mtgox and mybitcoin.com work together they could do quick tranfers to accounts on the other service even then
 901 2011-07-02 04:15:54 <rethaw> thats true
 902 2011-07-02 04:16:01 Tim-7967 has joined
 903 2011-07-02 04:17:35 <jgarzik> full nodes will require more and more resources, starting to look (gasp) like real banks after a while
 904 2011-07-02 04:17:51 <jgarzik> bitcoin users will be mostly SPV clients lacking the full block chain and incoming tx/block firehose
 905 2011-07-02 04:18:16 <rethaw> SPV?
 906 2011-07-02 04:18:37 <jgarzik> Simplified Payment Verification, a la bitcoinj
 907 2011-07-02 04:18:45 <b4epoche_> so, why do bank transfers presently take so long?  banks lazy?  people don't care?  regulations?
 908 2011-07-02 04:18:59 <jgarzik> their computer systems were written in 1960 or so?
 909 2011-07-02 04:19:13 <lfm> based on cheque exchanges
 910 2011-07-02 04:19:19 <rethaw> jgarzik: this is OK I think, are you saying this is a problem?
 911 2011-07-02 04:19:22 <phantomcircuit> so how should an exchange handle fractional components of orders which are smaller than the lowest fractional component they support (10^8)
 912 2011-07-02 04:19:26 <b4epoche_> it's seriously a computing power issue?
 913 2011-07-02 04:19:48 kon is now known as Kothar
 914 2011-07-02 04:19:48 <lfm> phantomcircuit: you think thats needed?
 915 2011-07-02 04:20:15 <phantomcircuit> lfm, 10^8? no but the same issue applies with any amount
 916 2011-07-02 04:20:27 <phantomcircuit> 0.01 * 0.01 = 0.0001
 917 2011-07-02 04:20:41 <theymos> Some separate P2P system needs to be designed to alert SPV clients when they receive a payment. Right now even SPV clients have to receive full blocks. Maybe this would be a good place to use those obscure/complex network designs I hear of all the time.
 918 2011-07-02 04:20:57 <b4epoche_> jgarzik:  so why are they still using ancient systems?  is there no pressure to modernize?
 919 2011-07-02 04:20:57 <lfm> same way fractional pennies are handled in current accounting systems perhaps
 920 2011-07-02 04:21:19 <phantomcircuit> lfm, accounting systems? they aren't
 921 2011-07-02 04:21:26 <jgarzik> theymos: nah just query for a portion of an address
 922 2011-07-02 04:21:28 <lfm> b4epoche the dalays can also make them money
 923 2011-07-02 04:21:29 <phantomcircuit> accounting is +- no */
 924 2011-07-02 04:21:31 <phantomcircuit> :P
 925 2011-07-02 04:21:37 <jgarzik> rethaw: ?
 926 2011-07-02 04:22:00 <rethaw> just wondering if you making a value judgment
 927 2011-07-02 04:22:12 <phantomcircuit> i guess limiting the precision of the rate/quantity of bids/asks such that the fractional component is always > 1/10^8 would work
 928 2011-07-02 04:22:16 <phantomcircuit> but that's only 1/10^4
 929 2011-07-02 04:22:19 <rethaw> you were*
 930 2011-07-02 04:22:20 <b4epoche_> lfm:  I see that as the same as people don't care
 931 2011-07-02 04:22:44 <lfm> phantomcircuit: you still have % sales taxes and interest rates. so they round up or down to the nearest penny, whichever way the most advantage is ofr the one doing the calculation usually
 932 2011-07-02 04:23:05 <theymos> jgarzik: That might work. I wonder if enough peers will donate resources to fill those queries, though.
 933 2011-07-02 04:23:21 <phantomcircuit> lfm, yeah and the rules for that are set by law :P
 934 2011-07-02 04:23:39 <jgarzik> theymos: if they don't, the masses won't have a way of using bitcoin at all, in the future...
 935 2011-07-02 04:23:56 <jgarzik> theymos: it's pretty much a requirement
 936 2011-07-02 04:24:13 <lfm> phantomcircuit: sometimes ya, depends what its for
 937 2011-07-02 04:24:14 * b4epoche_ worked MICR encoding checks one summer ~1989...  if the deposited amount was less than $1 off, the bank just ignored it
 938 2011-07-02 04:24:14 <rethaw> why cant a bank handle the day to day transactions?
 939 2011-07-02 04:24:18 <rethaw> I must be missing something
 940 2011-07-02 04:24:34 <b4epoche_> btw, what a seriously boring job
 941 2011-07-02 04:24:44 <rethaw> so that transactions in the block chain are not affected, but day to day spending can occur
 942 2011-07-02 04:25:05 <rethaw> just like everyday spending needn't be reported to the IRS, but large deposits are
 943 2011-07-02 04:25:07 <jgarzik> rethaw: I was exaggerating, but quite seriously, "modern" Big Banks have really awful, high latency processes.  Sometimes they only fully balance (sync) everything once a day
 944 2011-07-02 04:25:24 <jgarzik> most banking systems were written pre-1990 and limp along with mainframe upgrades
 945 2011-07-02 04:25:27 <lfm> rethaw: bitcoin has a lot of consiracy theorists includeing ones who distrust or even hate the faintest idea of a bank so you get resistance to any idea resembling a bank
 946 2011-07-02 04:25:43 <rethaw> thats ok, they can keep their money in encrypted wallets
 947 2011-07-02 04:25:50 <theymos> jgarzik: Maybe there could be some distributed database of address ->transaction information supported by lightweight clients. Lightweight clients won't be able to run nodes, but they might be willing to donate a bit of disk/network resources for this.
 948 2011-07-02 04:25:52 <jgarzik> a new brand-new banks were able to undercut this, simply by writing new systems from scratch rather than buying one from another IBM shop
 949 2011-07-02 04:25:58 <rethaw> and when they want to go out on a date they transfer 5BTC to a bank account
 950 2011-07-02 04:26:09 <lfm> and wait an hour for the payment for their coffee to clear! grin
 951 2011-07-02 04:26:26 <rethaw> well, assumedly you do it before you go out on the date
 952 2011-07-02 04:26:33 <b4epoche_> yea, they'll move their money from under the mattress to an encrypted wallet, which they'll store on a USB drive....  under the mattress
 953 2011-07-02 04:26:58 <lfm> and still wait an hour for the payment to clear
 954 2011-07-02 04:27:01 skeledrew has joined
 955 2011-07-02 04:27:04 Raccoon is now known as iamboxxy\yousee
 956 2011-07-02 04:27:17 <phantomcircuit> lfm, see the problem as i see it is that you want people to be able to trade 100% of the funds on deposit, but that means the exchange rate must always be >=1
 957 2011-07-02 04:27:24 <jgarzik> most people are simply not able to adequately secure their own computer systems, so third party providers will emerge to do this for the Average Joe
 958 2011-07-02 04:27:28 <jgarzik> like instawallet
 959 2011-07-02 04:27:35 wardearia has joined
 960 2011-07-02 04:27:38 <phantomcircuit> lfm, or rather the fractional component of the exchange rate must always be 0
 961 2011-07-02 04:27:41 <rethaw> thats what I'm saying
 962 2011-07-02 04:27:43 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 963 2011-07-02 04:27:54 <jgarzik> theymos: yeah, there have been proposals along those lines...
 964 2011-07-02 04:28:09 <lfm> phantomcircuit: look at mtgox, its almost impossible to get the last fraction of a penny cashed out
 965 2011-07-02 04:28:12 ar4s has joined
 966 2011-07-02 04:28:13 <jgarzik> theymos: definitely need some solution for the Little Guy that keeps bitcoin outside total cartel control
 967 2011-07-02 04:28:19 <phantomcircuit> lfm, true
 968 2011-07-02 04:28:20 <jgarzik> (which is an unfortunate end state anyway)
 969 2011-07-02 04:28:36 <phantomcircuit> lfm, i guess ill just publish rounding rules
 970 2011-07-02 04:28:39 <lfm> phantomcircuit: most people just accept they lost part of a penny
 971 2011-07-02 04:28:40 <theymos> Usenet is run by servers, and it's still pretty free.
 972 2011-07-02 04:29:14 <phantomcircuit> lfm, limiting quantity and rate to 1/10^4 would allow the current database schema to continue without issue
 973 2011-07-02 04:29:19 <theymos> Probably Bitcoin will end up being used as a backing for an Open-Transactions-like system. The bitcoins themselves don't need to move much.
 974 2011-07-02 04:29:20 <jgarzik> heh, not really.  there are a tiny number of large Usenet servers.  (Full disc.: I used to sling NNTP news for a living)
 975 2011-07-02 04:29:28 <phantomcircuit> but hopefully that will be a problem at some point
 976 2011-07-02 04:29:41 <jgarzik> ah, the days when spinne.com was high in the Top 1000 were glorious
 977 2011-07-02 04:29:46 <lfm> phantomcircuit: publishing the rounding rules sure wouldnt hurt tho
 978 2011-07-02 04:29:54 <phantomcircuit> theymos, OT is silly, you end up trusting 2 different people
 979 2011-07-02 04:30:21 <theymos> phantomcircuit: Why 2?
 980 2011-07-02 04:30:32 <phantomcircuit> theymos, you have to trust the issuer and the transaction server
 981 2011-07-02 04:30:34 b4epoche_ is now known as b4epoche_is_slee
 982 2011-07-02 04:30:49 <phantomcircuit> lfm, yeah i guess just publishing the rules would be good enough
 983 2011-07-02 04:31:31 <theymos> I haven't really looked into OT specifically. A BlindBitcoin-like system then.
 984 2011-07-02 04:32:00 pyro-Der_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 985 2011-07-02 04:32:19 <Graet> Diablo-D3 Pool comparison table Ghash/s and Graphs http://mksv.ath.cx/bit/  and   http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25284.  obviously more pools needed i there, but its agood start i think :)
 986 2011-07-02 04:32:57 <phantomcircuit> theymos, yeah OT in particular is over engineered to the max
 987 2011-07-02 04:33:36 mmoya has joined
 988 2011-07-02 04:35:35 samlander has joined
 989 2011-07-02 04:35:41 <samlander> any c# devs here with socket experience?
 990 2011-07-02 04:35:54 shLONG has joined
 991 2011-07-02 04:36:26 <lfm> samlander: are you writing C# that will also run on Linux and OS/2?
 992 2011-07-02 04:36:44 <lfm> OSX I mean
 993 2011-07-02 04:36:49 <samlander> preferably
 994 2011-07-02 04:36:53 <folklore> why osx
 995 2011-07-02 04:36:58 <samlander> mono
 996 2011-07-02 04:37:07 AStove has joined
 997 2011-07-02 04:37:07 <folklore> windows, and nix are where its at
 998 2011-07-02 04:37:14 <samlander> i use vs personally cause im a winwhore.. but would be nice if it were mono compatible
 999 2011-07-02 04:37:16 conjre has joined
1000 2011-07-02 04:37:23 <lfm> sam I mean are you actually testing it on Linux and stuff?
1001 2011-07-02 04:37:29 <samlander> no
1002 2011-07-02 04:37:33 <samlander> im a winwhore
1003 2011-07-02 04:37:38 <lfm> oh , too bad
1004 2011-07-02 04:37:41 <samlander> but i may want it to be compatiblee
1005 2011-07-02 04:37:48 <samlander> i need a socket library written for me on a 2 btc bounty
1006 2011-07-02 04:38:10 <lfm> huh? doesnt C# have those?
1007 2011-07-02 04:38:18 <samlander> im trying to get data from the bitcoincharts telnet and my data is hit or miss
1008 2011-07-02 04:38:21 <samlander> im not getting it all
1009 2011-07-02 04:38:35 <samlander> and my program depends on having all available realtime info
1010 2011-07-02 04:38:54 <egecko> then you probably shouldnt be scraping bitcoincharts
1011 2011-07-02 04:39:05 <samlander> ?
1012 2011-07-02 04:39:21 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1013 2011-07-02 04:39:34 <samlander> bitcoincharts telnet exposes both th and mtgox as well as others... im only interested in th and mtgox though
1014 2011-07-02 04:39:34 <egecko> why would you want a middle-man delaying your data? you're dependent on bitcoincharts
1015 2011-07-02 04:39:35 <Diablo-D3> <Graet> Diablo-D3 Pool comparison table Ghash/s and Graphs http://mksv.ath.cx/bit/  and   http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25284.  obviously more pools needed i there, but its agood start i think :)
1016 2011-07-02 04:39:45 <Diablo-D3> Graet: poolname should be first
1017 2011-07-02 04:40:11 <egecko> why not just get the data from mtgox and th directly?
1018 2011-07-02 04:40:18 wardearia has quit (Changing host)
1019 2011-07-02 04:40:18 wardearia has joined
1020 2011-07-02 04:40:25 <samlander> because mtgox's socket is screwed right now
1021 2011-07-02 04:41:14 <Graet> i'll apss the message Diablo-D3 . cheers for the feedack :)
1022 2011-07-02 04:41:52 <lfm> ;;bc,mtgox
1023 2011-07-02 04:41:53 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":16.45999,"low":15.26,"avg":15.872588027,"vol":35249,"last":15.3401,"buy":15.3401,"sell":15.34999}}
1024 2011-07-02 04:42:40 grnbrg has joined
1025 2011-07-02 04:43:12 <Graet> Diablo-D3 check now please :)
1026 2011-07-02 04:43:38 <Graet> we will continue to poulate it
1027 2011-07-02 04:44:20 enquirer has joined
1028 2011-07-02 04:44:53 mmoya has quit (Quit: Saliendo)
1029 2011-07-02 04:45:24 egecko has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
1030 2011-07-02 04:46:27 <Diablo-D3> he shouldnt have multiple servers from the same pool listed
1031 2011-07-02 04:47:32 egecko has joined
1032 2011-07-02 04:48:17 <samlander> so any of you c# devs care to take on my library for me? 2 btc bounty...
1033 2011-07-02 04:48:34 lolwat` has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1034 2011-07-02 04:48:49 <samlander> btclistner btcl = new btclistner(); btcl.Tradereceived+=MyHandler; btcl.Subscribe();
1035 2011-07-02 04:48:50 Stellar has joined
1036 2011-07-02 04:50:24 num1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1037 2011-07-02 04:50:46 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1038 2011-07-02 04:50:53 <samlander> where tradereceived returns the trade in question in a trade object
1039 2011-07-02 04:51:55 Jkessler has joined
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1047 2011-07-02 05:04:41 <shLONG> listen
1048 2011-07-02 05:05:23 <shLONG> trys to coax her sun in the bath, through the window I can hear him splash, lisiten.... children..... droped out in the silence here in the song
1049 2011-07-02 05:05:27 nefario1 has joined
1050 2011-07-02 05:05:36 <shLONG> corners of the room are brightening
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1062 2011-07-02 05:16:39 accel has joined
1063 2011-07-02 05:16:49 <accel> dumb question: if mtgox has a cap on bitcoins
1064 2011-07-02 05:16:55 <accel> why did the bitcoin attacker not use multiple accounts
1065 2011-07-02 05:17:00 <accel> to transfer out bitcoins?
1066 2011-07-02 05:17:59 <phantomcircuit> because there were not a very sophisticated attacker
1067 2011-07-02 05:18:07 <phantomcircuit> depressing answer is depressing
1068 2011-07-02 05:18:22 <samlander> accel: because the point was to buy a shitton at a low price from the enevitable storm and withdraw later
1069 2011-07-02 05:18:30 <samlander> gox doing the rollback fucked the plan
1070 2011-07-02 05:18:36 <samlander> it's the only thing that makes sense
1071 2011-07-02 05:19:36 <accel> err
1072 2011-07-02 05:19:40 <accel> how could they not expect a rollback?
1073 2011-07-02 05:19:53 <accel> it seems like they pretty much had one shot
1074 2011-07-02 05:19:57 <accel> i.e. as soon as it tanked to 0.01
1075 2011-07-02 05:20:08 <accel> they had to buy + get out of mtgox as many coints as possible
1076 2011-07-02 05:21:29 earthmeLon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1077 2011-07-02 05:25:53 <samlander> accel: i didnt expect the rollback
1078 2011-07-02 05:27:05 <cacheson> the rollback wasn't what stopped them from getting away with more coins
1079 2011-07-02 05:27:10 <copumpkin> nobody expects the spanish inquisition
1080 2011-07-02 05:27:19 <cacheson> it's the fact that people were like, "holy shit, free coins!" and drove the price back up
1081 2011-07-02 05:27:24 <accel> shutting mtgox was what prevented them?
1082 2011-07-02 05:27:33 <accel> oh
1083 2011-07-02 05:27:34 <cacheson> no, they got away with 2000 btc
1084 2011-07-02 05:27:44 <accel> wait, so the limiting factor
1085 2011-07-02 05:27:48 <accel> was that they only got 2000 btc
1086 2011-07-02 05:27:52 <accel> before the rest of the market
1087 2011-07-02 05:27:55 <gjs278> they could have been non retarded and got away with all of them
1088 2011-07-02 05:27:56 <accel> drove the prices backup?
1089 2011-07-02 05:27:57 <cacheson> they didn't get away with more because the price had rebounded
1090 2011-07-02 05:28:15 <accel> so the attackers never acquired all that many coints in the first place then?
1091 2011-07-02 05:28:17 <cacheson> accel: yeah, there's a default $1000 per day withdrawal limit, for both USD and BTC
1092 2011-07-02 05:28:37 <accel> 2000 coins @0.01 is $20.00 ...
1093 2011-07-02 05:28:58 <cacheson> the price wasn't at 0.01 when they went to withdraw
1094 2011-07-02 05:29:16 <accel> ah
1095 2011-07-02 05:29:17 <accel> so basically
1096 2011-07-02 05:29:19 <accel> they had shitting timing?
1097 2011-07-02 05:29:29 <accel> i.e. they needed to keep the price at 0.01 for long enough
1098 2011-07-02 05:29:36 <accel> to (1) buy it up at 0.01 and (2) withdraw it
1099 2011-07-02 05:29:37 <cacheson> wouldn't have been possible
1100 2011-07-02 05:29:40 <accel> why not?
1101 2011-07-02 05:29:49 <accel> if they could sell 500K, why couldn't they sell another 500K
1102 2011-07-02 05:29:49 <cacheson> if you looked at the graph then, it was a straight line back up
1103 2011-07-02 05:29:55 <accel> which graph?
1104 2011-07-02 05:29:59 <cacheson> the price graph
1105 2011-07-02 05:30:12 sekati has left ("Leaving")
1106 2011-07-02 05:30:17 <accel> url?
1107 2011-07-02 05:30:33 <cacheson> what I saw was on mtgoxlive, it's not there anymore
1108 2011-07-02 05:30:44 <cacheson> I know there's a youtube video of the crash happening floating around
1109 2011-07-02 05:31:23 <cacheson> I wonder if bitcoincharts shows it
1110 2011-07-02 05:31:59 grnbrg has left ("Leaving")
1111 2011-07-02 05:32:06 <cacheson> nope
1112 2011-07-02 05:32:11 nhodges has joined
1113 2011-07-02 05:33:20 <phantomcircuit> cacheson, they didn't need to crash the price, but they were incompetent
1114 2011-07-02 05:33:36 <accel> phantomcircuit: how should they have done it?
1115 2011-07-02 05:33:41 <phantomcircuit> if they had fished around a bit they would have learned that the 1000USD/day withdrawal limit was trivially circumvented
1116 2011-07-02 05:33:50 <accel> how so?
1117 2011-07-02 05:33:55 <cacheson> phantomcircuit: crashing the price makes it easier though
1118 2011-07-02 05:33:59 <phantomcircuit> create a ton of accounts
1119 2011-07-02 05:34:05 <phantomcircuit> move funds to those accounts
1120 2011-07-02 05:34:11 <phantomcircuit> each has a 1k USD/day limit
1121 2011-07-02 05:34:14 <phantomcircuit> shazam
1122 2011-07-02 05:34:21 <accel> well yeah; but they still have to crash the price enough
1123 2011-07-02 05:34:24 <accel> where buying it makes sense
1124 2011-07-02 05:34:28 <phantomcircuit> there's a reason the merchant api is still down
1125 2011-07-02 05:34:30 <accel> i.e. they have to use real USD to buy the bitcoins right?
1126 2011-07-02 05:34:39 <phantomcircuit> accel, facepalm
1127 2011-07-02 05:34:45 <accel> ?
1128 2011-07-02 05:34:46 <accel> enlighten me
1129 2011-07-02 05:34:49 <cacheson> accel: no, they didn't have any actual BTC or USD
1130 2011-07-02 05:34:57 <accel> how did they buy BTC then?
1131 2011-07-02 05:35:02 <cacheson> accel: they just assigned themselves money in the database
1132 2011-07-02 05:35:04 <phantomcircuit> THEY DIDNT
1133 2011-07-02 05:35:08 <accel> oh
1134 2011-07-02 05:35:12 <accel> they just assigned it to themselves?
1135 2011-07-02 05:35:18 <cacheson> in other words, on the ledger, but not in the vault
1136 2011-07-02 05:35:20 <accel> and the crashing was merely as a way to get the BTC out?
1137 2011-07-02 05:35:25 <cacheson> right
1138 2011-07-02 05:35:31 <phantomcircuit> a very stupid way
1139 2011-07-02 05:35:44 <accel> i.e. the whole point of "crashing" .... was to circumvent the $1000.00 daily limit?
1140 2011-07-02 05:35:52 <phantomcircuit> which says something about the caliber of attacker that was able to get in...
1141 2011-07-02 05:35:53 <cacheson> accel: presumably
1142 2011-07-02 05:36:00 <egecko> thats ridiculous
1143 2011-07-02 05:36:32 <phantomcircuit> egecko, it really is
1144 2011-07-02 05:36:47 <egecko> thats like robbing half a million from a bank in 10s and then selling them for a penny each.. absolutely ridiculous
1145 2011-07-02 05:36:57 <dubbz82> ...wouldn't it be more beneficial to trade through a multitude of other sources
1146 2011-07-02 05:37:03 <dubbz82> rather than just dealing with mtgox
1147 2011-07-02 05:37:06 <egecko> obviously a super criminal mastermind </sarcasm>
1148 2011-07-02 05:37:08 <dubbz82> or am i just being too logical?
1149 2011-07-02 05:37:44 <phantomcircuit> egecko, lol yeah that's the worst part of the entire thing, the attacker is just so clearly incompetent, what does that say about mtgox?
1150 2011-07-02 05:38:22 <egecko> all that says about mtgox is that they need more resources to continue their progression to being a major exchange
1151 2011-07-02 05:38:38 <egecko> look at the flash crash in the nyse in may 2010
1152 2011-07-02 05:38:57 <phantomcircuit> egecko, the flash crash on the nyse is in no way related to what happened with mtgox
1153 2011-07-02 05:39:05 <phantomcircuit> they're not even in the same ball park
1154 2011-07-02 05:39:09 <phantomcircuit> let me put it this way
1155 2011-07-02 05:39:22 <dubbz82> mtgox needs to move their shit to an outside country
1156 2011-07-02 05:39:24 <phantomcircuit> 100% of trades on the NYSE when the flash crash occurred where legitimate
1157 2011-07-02 05:39:32 <egecko> bullshit.
1158 2011-07-02 05:39:34 <dubbz82> where they don't have to worry about the 1000 per day limit.
1159 2011-07-02 05:39:58 <phantomcircuit> egecko, lol what do you think caused the flash crash? hackers? nope 1 guy with 1 trade for 1 billion dollars in P&G
1160 2011-07-02 05:40:04 <phantomcircuit> egecko, and the trade was legit
1161 2011-07-02 05:40:53 <egecko> that was the inital cause, yes, and it was then exacerbated by trading algorithms... and i wasnt trying to link the two causually
1162 2011-07-02 05:41:14 <phantomcircuit> the flash crash was caused by a combination of algorithmic trading and a failure to take into account the outsized effect that P&G had on the stability indexes
1163 2011-07-02 05:41:18 <egecko> but in the flash crash you had the major indices plummet by a rather significant percentage
1164 2011-07-02 05:41:25 <egecko> just like with the hack of mt gox
1165 2011-07-02 05:41:41 <dubbz82> though tbh, the 1000 per day limit is fine for most people anyways
1166 2011-07-02 05:41:43 <phantomcircuit> yes the difference being that all of the trades on the major indexes where with real money
1167 2011-07-02 05:41:55 <dubbz82> because MOST PEOPLE aren't actually pulling 1000 dollars per day out
1168 2011-07-02 05:41:55 <egecko> the end result being the people in the nyse crash DID lose money and significantly larger amounts than the fuss being made about mtgox
1169 2011-07-02 05:42:05 <phantomcircuit> what happened on mtgox was as if the NYSE credited someone with a trillion dollars and they used that to crash the market
1170 2011-07-02 05:42:42 <phantomcircuit> egecko, the only people who lost money in the flash crash where people with stop loss orders, and guess what? they deserve what they got
1171 2011-07-02 05:42:49 <phantomcircuit> a stop loss order is foolish
1172 2011-07-02 05:42:53 <egecko> im not drawing causual links, im talking about the fallout in economic terms
1173 2011-07-02 05:43:03 <egecko> a stop loss order isnt foolish
1174 2011-07-02 05:43:06 <phantomcircuit> the fallout is very different
1175 2011-07-02 05:43:15 <egecko> it is if you are playing with a few grand of life savings, yes
1176 2011-07-02 05:43:17 darin has joined
1177 2011-07-02 05:43:25 <egecko> but say you're trading millions or hundreds of millions
1178 2011-07-02 05:43:30 <egecko> and its not your own money
1179 2011-07-02 05:43:50 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: I'm still a beleaver in stop loss limit orders
1180 2011-07-02 05:43:58 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
1181 2011-07-02 05:44:27 TecnoBrat has quit (Quit: Bye!)
1182 2011-07-02 05:44:33 <egecko> the problem with stop loss orders is in the event of a huge crash you are gonna have to take the loss even though it may only be temporary and a flaw
1183 2011-07-02 05:44:45 <phantomcircuit> with a stop loss a trader with a lot of money and brass balls can run through the stops causing a market sell off and then purchase shares at pennies on the dollar
1184 2011-07-02 05:45:00 <egecko> but for less volatile investments its a good c.y.a. if you got serious bucks riding on it
1185 2011-07-02 05:45:03 <phantomcircuit> a stop loss is a great plan if you want to be vulnerable to a known (LEGAL!) trading attack
1186 2011-07-02 05:45:06 TecnoBrat has joined
1187 2011-07-02 05:45:36 <egecko> the only way to not be vulnerable is to never hold an investment for longer than a day
1188 2011-07-02 05:46:17 <phantomcircuit> there's a difference between vulnerable to market fluctuations and vulnerable to a calculated attack to trigger your algorithmic trading (which is what a stop loss is)
1189 2011-07-02 05:46:21 <egecko> and that means you're now a day trader and subject to the PDT ruler.. not a easy rule to comply with.
1190 2011-07-02 05:46:53 <phantomcircuit> basically i see a stop loss as the simplest algorithmic trading tool available
1191 2011-07-02 05:47:12 <phantomcircuit> it's like trying to fight a lion with a toothpick
1192 2011-07-02 05:47:15 <egecko> its going to be interesting to see how the sec/finra/central banks and govts respond to bitcoin
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1194 2011-07-02 05:47:47 <egecko> stop losses are just a way of saying "im too lazy to watch this investment, but i dont wanna lose *all* my money if it crashes"
1195 2011-07-02 05:48:15 <egecko> at which point you should have your money being managed by a professional, i.e. put it in a mutual fund with a good manager
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1197 2011-07-02 05:48:42 <egecko> it would be interesting if there was a BTC-stock exchange
1198 2011-07-02 05:49:06 <phantomcircuit> egecko, that was actually my point
1199 2011-07-02 05:49:08 darin has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
1200 2011-07-02 05:49:29 <phantomcircuit> a stop loss is retarded, it's basically an admission that you dont have the time to watch your own investments
1201 2011-07-02 05:50:11 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1202 2011-07-02 05:50:14 <egecko> true, but we dont want fools to throw away all their money and then be a drain on society do we? :)  at least with the stop loss, society is only on the hook for like 90% of their foolishness
1203 2011-07-02 05:50:30 <phantomcircuit> what?
1204 2011-07-02 05:50:39 <phantomcircuit> society shouldn't be on the hook at all
1205 2011-07-02 05:50:40 <phantomcircuit> ;)
1206 2011-07-02 05:51:11 <egecko> shouldn't, but that's in the perfect world where there's also perfect newtonian physics too :)
1207 2011-07-02 05:51:32 <phantomcircuit> heh
1208 2011-07-02 05:51:33 <phantomcircuit> well
1209 2011-07-02 05:51:37 <phantomcircuit> i can say this
1210 2011-07-02 05:51:43 <phantomcircuit> britcoin will never reverse a trade
1211 2011-07-02 05:51:44 <phantomcircuit> ever
1212 2011-07-02 05:52:01 <TruthTaco> EVER
1213 2011-07-02 05:52:10 <phantomcircuit> yes
1214 2011-07-02 05:52:11 <phantomcircuit> ever
1215 2011-07-02 05:52:19 <phantomcircuit> that's what i sai
1216 2011-07-02 05:52:19 <phantomcircuit> d
1217 2011-07-02 05:52:48 <egecko> hey, more power to 'em! :)
1218 2011-07-02 05:53:35 <egecko> im ambivalent with whether or not the rollback was right or not
1219 2011-07-02 05:53:59 <phantomcircuit> with mtgox or the nyse
1220 2011-07-02 05:54:11 <phantomcircuit> with mtgox i believe it was necessary because he literally couldn't cover
1221 2011-07-02 05:54:22 <egecko> mtgox... on the ideaological side, sure, it definately shouldn't have been done.. free market and what not.. mt gox's E&O insurance should have covered their loss/liabilities
1222 2011-07-02 05:54:26 <phantomcircuit> with the nyse it was just a give away to the algo traders who lost a ton of money
1223 2011-07-02 05:54:38 <phantomcircuit> i doubt he has insurance
1224 2011-07-02 05:54:49 <egecko> but on the other hand, half a million is getting to the ballpark where people end up getting violent over that kind of cash disappearing
1225 2011-07-02 05:55:07 <egecko> if he doesnt have insurance, then he should get the shaft and be on the line for 100% of the losses
1226 2011-07-02 05:55:35 <egecko> (thats kind of the purpose of having business insurance ;))
1227 2011-07-02 05:55:48  has quit (Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-240-203-214.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Quit: Anarchism, really stands for the liberation of the human mind from the dominion of religion; the liberation of the human body from the dominion of property; liberation from the shackles and restraint of government. -Emma Goldman)
1228 2011-07-02 05:56:06 <egecko> afk
1229 2011-07-02 05:56:44 <phantomcircuit> egecko, no it was 500K BTC
1230 2011-07-02 05:56:49 <phantomcircuit> so 8.6 million USD
1231 2011-07-02 05:56:55 <phantomcircuit> (at the price right before crash)
1232 2011-07-02 06:01:40 <egecko> even more so then.. thats the kind of money people start disappearing over
1233 2011-07-02 06:02:25 <phantomcircuit> kind of my point really
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1239 2011-07-02 06:13:53 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: heh, that's awful big talk :)  all mature markets reverse trades at one time or another.  It is likely that UK has laws just like other countries, about knowingly distributing stolen funds.  If that is the case, legal obligations can force a trade reverse.
1240 2011-07-02 06:15:11 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, let me be clear, britcoin will never reverse trades unless literally forced to do so by authorities
1241 2011-07-02 06:15:21 Kothar is now known as kon
1242 2011-07-02 06:15:40 nefario1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1243 2011-07-02 06:16:45 <lfm> bitcoin did a rollback once too on the overflow bug
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1254 2011-07-02 06:24:05 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: ok :)
1255 2011-07-02 06:24:37 <jgarzik> s/never/never ... unless/
1256 2011-07-02 06:24:45 <jgarzik> indeed
1257 2011-07-02 06:25:05 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1258 2011-07-02 06:25:36 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, never unless it's out of our hands
1259 2011-07-02 06:25:36  has joined
1260 2011-07-02 06:26:26 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, although i do not believe there are any uk regulations about rolling back trades, there likely are however regulations about bankruptcy liquidation which would be the actual solution to a major fuck up
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1264 2011-07-02 06:28:34 <wasabi2> Yay. My miner works.
1265 2011-07-02 06:30:01  is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-240-195-227.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
1266 2011-07-02 06:30:53 enquirer has left ("back soon")
1267 2011-07-02 06:31:35 <rethaw> wasabi2: you wrote a miner?
1268 2011-07-02 06:32:40 <wasabi2> Uh huh.
1269 2011-07-02 06:32:54 <wasabi2> windows only .Net
1270 2011-07-02 06:33:02 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1271 2011-07-02 06:33:07 <rethaw> nice!
1272 2011-07-02 06:34:08 Zyrkon has joined
1273 2011-07-02 06:36:33 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i can say however that the 2 trades for 0.01GBP @ 5000 GBP/BTC will not be reversed
1274 2011-07-02 06:36:59 <JFK911> haha what
1275 2011-07-02 06:37:20 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1276 2011-07-02 06:37:30 <phantomcircuit> yeah some joker put in 2 trades for 0.01GBP @ 5000 GBP/BTC before the order matching was changed to be fifo
1277 2011-07-02 06:37:56 <phantomcircuit> so they managed to buy BTC @ 5000 GBP/BTC but only for a very small amount
1278 2011-07-02 06:38:00 Tim-7967 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1279 2011-07-02 06:38:14 <JFK911> cool way to waste $100
1280 2011-07-02 06:38:26 <phantomcircuit> no they wasted 0.01GBP
1281 2011-07-02 06:38:39 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|and they got 5000 btc?
1282 2011-07-02 06:38:42 <JFK911> 5000 gbp per btc
1283 2011-07-02 06:38:46 <JFK911> is how i read that
1284 2011-07-02 06:38:47 <phantomcircuit> actually i forget lemme see
1285 2011-07-02 06:39:06 <JFK911> that would mean 50gbp for 0.01 btc right
1286 2011-07-02 06:39:28 <phantomcircuit> yes but they spent < 1 GBP
1287 2011-07-02 06:39:33 <phantomcircuit> forget exactly how much it was
1288 2011-07-02 06:39:40 <JFK911> so what did they get for bitcoins
1289 2011-07-02 06:39:43 <phantomcircuit> you can do VERY sub fractional cents on britcoin
1290 2011-07-02 06:39:45 amiller has joined
1291 2011-07-02 06:40:29 <phantomcircuit> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/britcoinGBP#rg60zig1-minzvztgSzm1g10zm2g25
1292 2011-07-02 06:40:33 <phantomcircuit> lol chart is lol
1293 2011-07-02 06:41:27 <phantomcircuit> you cant see the real trades because of the ridiculous outliers
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1299 2011-07-02 06:52:45 <pogden> guys
1300 2011-07-02 06:52:47 <pogden> guys
1301 2011-07-02 06:52:48 <pogden> guys
1302 2011-07-02 06:52:50 <pogden> guys
1303 2011-07-02 06:53:00 <pogden> I met jargon irl last night
1304 2011-07-02 06:53:11 <phantomcircuit> uh
1305 2011-07-02 06:53:12 <phantomcircuit> neat?
1306 2011-07-02 06:53:14 <phantomcircuit> who is that
1307 2011-07-02 06:53:17 <pogden> oh
1308 2011-07-02 06:53:26 <pogden> he was on here a few weeks ago
1309 2011-07-02 06:53:42 <pogden> talking about base58.h
1310 2011-07-02 06:54:01 <neofutur> 2 days ago he trolle base58
1311 2011-07-02 06:54:16 <neofutur> but with another username
1312 2011-07-02 06:54:23 <pogden> really?
1313 2011-07-02 06:54:32 <neofutur> (10:20) <    pogden>  jargon@nsasec:root/sec> echo "hello"|base64
1314 2011-07-02 06:54:32 <neofutur> (10:21) <   pierre`> jargon@nsasec:root/sec <- lol the $USER
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1316 2011-07-02 06:54:41 <neofutur> pogden
1317 2011-07-02 06:54:57 <neofutur> pretty sillhy copy/paste :p
1318 2011-07-02 06:55:25 <pogden> oh
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1320 2011-07-02 06:55:43 <neofutur> nearly telling jgarzik was an alien infiltrated in bitcoins :p
1321 2011-07-02 06:55:45 <pogden> maybe i shouldn't have let him use my computer
1322 2011-07-02 06:55:52 <neofutur> i exagerate , but just a little
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1324 2011-07-02 06:55:56 <pogden> he's definitely insane
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1350 2011-07-02 07:48:41 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1351 2011-07-02 07:48:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134341 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 730 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 8 hours, 1 minute, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1576142.36891222
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1398 2011-07-02 09:33:48 HoboNamedJobo is now known as Evious
1399 2011-07-02 09:34:07 <norulez> hey guys. does bitcoind have memory leaks? the memory usage seems to be going up and not slowing down.. been running for 12 hours now
1400 2011-07-02 09:35:01 <Diablo-D3> thats normal
1401 2011-07-02 09:35:11 MartianW has quit (Quit: Bye all.)
1402 2011-07-02 09:35:17 <Diablo-D3> eventually it will gain sentience and have sex with your female relatives.
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1404 2011-07-02 09:36:06 <doublec> norulez: how much memory is it using?
1405 2011-07-02 09:36:19 <norulez> it got up to 1GB
1406 2011-07-02 09:37:27 <doublec> I've seen it hit that too
1407 2011-07-02 09:37:30 <samlander> can you guys tell me what the significance of \0 is?
1408 2011-07-02 09:37:51 <viggi> Null char?
1409 2011-07-02 09:38:03 <norulez> is that normal? seems to get to 1GB with no problems at all
1410 2011-07-02 09:39:36 <doublec> it floats between 200MB-1GB for me
1411 2011-07-02 09:39:46 <midnightmagic> nice. mrb_ hints in #bitcoin-mining that there exists SHA-256 algorithmic optimization which will run a 5970 at 1GH/s+
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1415 2011-07-02 09:41:18 <Hetairie> Hello
1416 2011-07-02 09:41:29 <Hetairie> for what bitcoin is no secure?
1417 2011-07-02 09:42:23 <Hetairie> you are new developpers?
1418 2011-07-02 09:45:44 <norulez> doublec: is there any way i can get my bitcoind memory usage down?
1419 2011-07-02 09:46:42 <phantomcircuit> Hetairie, try that again... but making sense
1420 2011-07-02 09:46:49 <doublec> norulez: no idea, sorry
1421 2011-07-02 09:47:40 <phantomcircuit> Hetairie, people in belgium speak english right?
1422 2011-07-02 09:48:38 djoot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1424 2011-07-02 10:01:08 <Hetairie> phantomcircuit people in belgium speak french.
1425 2011-07-02 10:01:52 <Hetairie> only colonisator come in beligum for try to take power speak other language.
1426 2011-07-02 10:02:16 <phantomcircuit> wat
1427 2011-07-02 10:02:18 <phantomcircuit> i got the first part
1428 2011-07-02 10:03:13 <Hetairie> so..
1429 2011-07-02 10:03:19 <Hetairie> for what bitcoin is no secure?
1430 2011-07-02 10:03:52 <Leo_II> can somebody tell me how to tackle my biggest concern about pools? I've posted it several times on the forum (just now here again: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25026.msg314726#msg314726 ) and on the wiki but nobody seems to care. so either it is too dumb to even answer it or nobody has an answer as its actually real.
1431 2011-07-02 10:05:44 <cacheson> Leo_II: cuddlefish had a proposal a while ago to render pools unable to pull off attacks
1432 2011-07-02 10:05:56 <cacheson> don't know if people are still working on it or what
1433 2011-07-02 10:06:14 <Leo_II> cacheson: you have a link?
1434 2011-07-02 10:06:22 <cacheson> not at the moment
1435 2011-07-02 10:06:27 <cacheson> let me see if I can find it
1436 2011-07-02 10:06:41 <Leo_II> cacheson: so the line of thought is a real threat?
1437 2011-07-02 10:06:50 <Leo_II> i'm not just paranoid?
1438 2011-07-02 10:07:03 <cacheson> lots of people are nervous about the pools, yes
1439 2011-07-02 10:07:40 <cacheson> found it
1440 2011-07-02 10:07:44 <cacheson> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9137.0
1441 2011-07-02 10:08:20 <Leo_II> my proposal burns down to: let not my miner mine for his bitcoind but for my bitcoind and my bitcoind talks with pools about shares
1442 2011-07-02 10:08:23 <Leo_II> thanx
1443 2011-07-02 10:08:46 <cacheson> looks like no activity since june 8th
1444 2011-07-02 10:12:47 <Leo_II> :(
1445 2011-07-02 10:13:16 <doublec> Leo_II: there's also this approach http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18313
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1448 2011-07-02 10:20:50 <justmoon> Leo_II, can you articulate your concern in a sentence and I'll try to answer it
1449 2011-07-02 10:21:38 <cacheson> justmoon: large mining pools represent a single point of failure for the bitcoin network
1450 2011-07-02 10:21:43 <Leo_II> doublec: thanx but this one sounds not practical
1451 2011-07-02 10:22:31 <doublec> Leo_II: what about it sounds not practical
1452 2011-07-02 10:22:54 <justmoon> cacheson, Leo_II: ok, that's a FAQ. pools have no power of their own since they don't do any hashing of their own. If they misbehave their members switch away to other pools, because network destabilization means lower exchange rate, means less income for miners.
1453 2011-07-02 10:22:54 <Leo_II> justmoon: mining pools getting big easily by rewarding more, being able to destroy smaller pools by faking to be a miner and stay on top by just rewarding more than others.
1454 2011-07-02 10:23:15 <justmoon> in fact the one time a pool (deepbit) got more than 51% miners switches away preemptively
1455 2011-07-02 10:23:32 <justmoon> finally, pools themselves also make more money if the network is stable and running well
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1459 2011-07-02 10:24:11 <cacheson> I'm still not exactly comfortable with that
1460 2011-07-02 10:24:23 <cacheson> it's a problem that should be dealt with
1461 2011-07-02 10:24:35 <cacheson> a good solution was proposed, but implementation seems to have stagnated
1462 2011-07-02 10:25:28 <Leo_II> justmoon: what if those 20 pools all were controlled by one mastermind? they all look different and all take zero to negative fee. greed will drive miners there and they will rely on others to fix the problem while they get btc easily. in fact as a miner i couldn't care less if the btc gets to a low point as difficulty will follow.
1463 2011-07-02 10:25:48 <justmoon> Leo_II, again, as soon as the 20 controlled pools start misbehaving miners would switch away
1464 2011-07-02 10:26:07 <justmoon> note that 51% of hashing power can't actually do anything, but temporarily mess with processing
1465 2011-07-02 10:26:29 <justmoon> so it doesn't matter if anyone abuses his 51% as long as we can detect it and it'll fix itself
1466 2011-07-02 10:26:59 <justmoon> and it *will* fix itself, because whatever miners are in those pools are gonna see the exchange rate drop like a stone and switch asap to restore network functionality
1467 2011-07-02 10:27:37 <cacheson> justmoon: it's not a doomsday scenario, but it's still definitely not good
1468 2011-07-02 10:27:52 <justmoon> cacheson, yeah, but it's also extremely unlikely to happen
1469 2011-07-02 10:27:53 <Leo_II> justmoon: how would they know who the evils are? so you claim if half the hashing power goes into invalid blocks as the other half decided to cut the difficulty in half by refusing the other half's blocks that is not a problem?
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1471 2011-07-02 10:28:11 <cacheson> justmoon: about as unlikely as mtgox being hacked
1472 2011-07-02 10:28:16 <justmoon> Leo_II, well, you can see if your hashing power went into the evil blocks
1473 2011-07-02 10:28:32 <justmoon> cacheson, no, a hell of a lot less likely
1474 2011-07-02 10:28:35 <Leo_II> justmoon: how?
1475 2011-07-02 10:28:49 <justmoon> cacheson, hackers have every incentive to break into gox, however pools have no incentive to misbehave
1476 2011-07-02 10:28:51 <Leo_II> i see my blocks did not get invalidated?
1477 2011-07-02 10:29:17 <Leo_II> justmoon: as long as it's not the enemies of bitcoin
1478 2011-07-02 10:29:17 <justmoon> Leo_II, you can see that your blocks don't confirm any transactions from the normal transaction pools
1479 2011-07-02 10:29:30 <cacheson> justmoon: someone who wants to harm the network would want to crack deepbit
1480 2011-07-02 10:29:57 <cacheson> justmoon: they wouldn't get money out of it, but it would demonstrate a deeper flaw than just an insecure exchange
1481 2011-07-02 10:30:07 <cacheson> and we're already getting a lot of shit over security issues right now
1482 2011-07-02 10:30:10 <Leo_II> i often see the claim that btc can not be brought down as nobody can buy that many video cards. that's stupid as you can use the miners video cards as their greed for the btc that you are about to destroy will drive them to you.
1483 2011-07-02 10:30:12 <justmoon> cacheson, yeah, ok, a hack of multiple big pools would disrupt the network until the pools fix their servers
1484 2011-07-02 10:31:08 <justmoon> cacheson, what i'd suggest is putting up a bounty for somebody to hack the pools, and not publish it, but have them fix it
1485 2011-07-02 10:31:23 <cacheson> justmoon: eh?
1486 2011-07-02 10:31:26 <Leo_II> so buy 1,000,000$ worth of BTC and give them to the miners that help you on your evil plan and they will happily do ...
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1489 2011-07-02 10:32:10 <justmoon> cacheson: your concern is with pool security - they way you fix somebody's security is hack them and tell them about it instead of exploiting it
1490 2011-07-02 10:32:17 <justmoon> if you can't hack yourself, pay somebody to
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1493 2011-07-02 10:32:48 <cacheson> justmoon: that doesn't make the current situation any more tenable
1494 2011-07-02 10:32:56 <Leo_II> i mean the whole point is we could have pools operate more secure by supporting it in bitcoind but instead we claim the majority of miners will act knowing the prisoner dilemma by heart.
1495 2011-07-02 10:33:11 <justmoon> Leo_II, again, not a big problem - if somebody does this, we'll thank them for the extra money and continue as normal
1496 2011-07-02 10:34:02 <justmoon> cacheson: what are you worried about - nothing is perfect - if bitcoin goes down for a day it's not the end of the world - especially since most transactions will still get processed, it'll just take a day to confirm them
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1498 2011-07-02 10:34:55 <justmoon> if anything, someone trying to get 51% is what we *want* them to do - think of it as a trap for the suckers among our enemies :)
1499 2011-07-02 10:35:06 <cacheson> justmoon: I'm worried that someone pulling off that sort of attack would bring more negative attention than we can really handle
1500 2011-07-02 10:35:17 <justmoon> cacheson, there is no such thing as negative publicity
1501 2011-07-02 10:35:25 <cacheson> "bitcoin fundamentally vulnerable, stay away"
1502 2011-07-02 10:35:34 <cacheson> justmoon: I strongly disagree
1503 2011-07-02 10:36:04 <justmoon> schumers bullshit got me an invitation to speak at a pretty exclusive technology congress - now I'm consulting with an actual bank who wants to become a bitcoin exchange
1504 2011-07-02 10:36:41 <justmoon> same thing with mtgox hack - only tangible result is that we got some articles in major magazines and newspapers and a lot more users than before
1505 2011-07-02 10:36:46 <cacheson> posturing by some windbag is a lot less threatening than the security issues
1506 2011-07-02 10:37:02 <justmoon> cacheson, it's not a security issue, remembers, nobody will lose any coins
1507 2011-07-02 10:37:14 <justmoon> it'll just be a day of bad transaction processing
1508 2011-07-02 10:37:44 <cacheson> like I've said, that's not my primary concern
1509 2011-07-02 10:37:57 <justmoon> if a 25k bitcoins stolen news story doesn't hurt us then this certainly won't
1510 2011-07-02 10:38:02 <cacheson> I'm concerned about people being scared off from bitcoin
1511 2011-07-02 10:38:08 <cacheson> and I do think that kind of stuff is hurting us
1512 2011-07-02 10:38:17 <cacheson> we don't have infinite capacity to absorb negative press
1513 2011-07-02 10:39:05 <justmoon> there is no such thing as negative press - there is only attention and what your product is like when people try it/research it
1514 2011-07-02 10:39:20 <cacheson> repeating that doesn't make it true
1515 2011-07-02 10:40:01 <Leo_II> gahhh justmoon. your pov somehow drives me nuts. you don't care about the miners and the btc generation if you claim it is not a problem. my point is that it is a big problem and a problem that can be addressed: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9137.0
1516 2011-07-02 10:40:03 <justmoon> just look at bitcoins history
1517 2011-07-02 10:41:00 <Leo_II> if it is no problem for you that a single entity can grab some 20% of all coins generated virtually for free, then yes, there is no problem.
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1519 2011-07-02 10:41:34 <justmoon> Leo_II, why don't banks do that?
1520 2011-07-02 10:41:41 <justmoon> just keep their customers money?
1521 2011-07-02 10:42:02 <justmoon> the reason is that it takes a lot of effort to build a bank up
1522 2011-07-02 10:42:04 <justmoon> gain customers
1523 2011-07-02 10:42:06 <justmoon> gain trust
1524 2011-07-02 10:42:11 <justmoon> same thing with a pool
1525 2011-07-02 10:42:28 <justmoon> why on earth would a pool operator want to throw that away for a quick payout
1526 2011-07-02 10:42:37 <samlander> justmoon: a real bank wants to exchange btc?
1527 2011-07-02 10:42:40 <samlander> that's fucking awesome!
1528 2011-07-02 10:42:45 <justmoon> and if he does - well he's no longer a pool operator
1529 2011-07-02 10:42:51 <justmoon> problem solved
1530 2011-07-02 10:43:10 <cacheson> justmoon: oh yeah, tell us more about the bank thing
1531 2011-07-02 10:43:24 <justmoon> if you have a better, more efficient solution great, but don't treat it as an end of the world scenario
1532 2011-07-02 10:43:33 <samlander> cacheson: you do realize that the number of miners have increase since the hack right
1533 2011-07-02 10:43:42 <samlander> we're now over 14 THash / s on network speed
1534 2011-07-02 10:43:45 <samlander> i wouldnt worry so much
1535 2011-07-02 10:43:57 <cacheson> samlander: when does the number of miners not increase?
1536 2011-07-02 10:43:59 <justmoon> @bank: it's a german forex bank, full banking license - they already trade gold, linden dollars etc. and they are interested in adding bitcoin - that's all I can say about it
1537 2011-07-02 10:44:10 <cacheson> justmoon: ah, cool
1538 2011-07-02 10:44:37 <cacheson> samlander: I think we can absorb *some* negative press.  I don't think we can endure limitless amounts of it though
1539 2011-07-02 10:45:17 <cacheson> I mean, I could be wrong, but I don't like the assumption that any attention is good
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1541 2011-07-02 10:46:07 <cacheson> seems like that's just people falling back on conventional wisdom
1542 2011-07-02 10:46:11 <justmoon> cacheson, the thing is - I used to have that point of view, and the negative press kept coming: exchange rate crash, drugs, 25000 hacked, biggest exchange hacked - and all that happened every time was that we fixed it and kept going with slightly more users than before
1543 2011-07-02 10:46:59 <cacheson> justmoon: well, I hope you're right
1544 2011-07-02 10:47:27 <cacheson> I think more importantly we shouldn't take it as an excuse to be reckless
1545 2011-07-02 10:47:54 <cacheson> if we can make it so that large pools aren't a viable attack vector, we should
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1547 2011-07-02 10:48:12 <justmoon> cacheson: agreed
1548 2011-07-02 10:48:55 <justmoon> people just have a tendency to exaggerate problems and then propose solutions that cause more problems than they solve
1549 2011-07-02 10:49:17 <cacheson> it's true
1550 2011-07-02 10:49:41 <cacheson> ugh, it's almost 7 AM here
1551 2011-07-02 10:49:56 <cacheson> can't sleep, must code
1552 2011-07-02 10:50:01 <justmoon> :)
1553 2011-07-02 10:50:13 <justmoon> it's 12:44pm here, just woke up
1554 2011-07-02 10:50:45 <diki> ;;bc,calc 11000
1555 2011-07-02 10:50:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 11000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 17 years, 3 weeks, 6 days, 20 hours, 52 minutes, and 36 seconds
1556 2011-07-02 10:51:02 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 11000 1
1557 2011-07-02 10:51:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 11000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 6 minutes and 30 seconds
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1561 2011-07-02 10:54:51 <diki> what're you coding cache
1562 2011-07-02 10:55:06 <cacheson> gpg authentication module for django
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1564 2011-07-02 11:00:52 <MrSam> jej
1565 2011-07-02 11:00:55 <MrSam> me is happy
1566 2011-07-02 11:01:10 <MrSam>         "category" : "immature",
1567 2011-07-02 11:01:10 <MrSam>         "amount" : 50.00750000,
1568 2011-07-02 11:01:48 <cacheson> MrSam: congrats
1569 2011-07-02 11:01:51 <MrSam> thx :)
1570 2011-07-02 11:02:16 <cacheson> that's what, two 5870s paid off?
1571 2011-07-02 11:02:44 <cacheson> er
1572 2011-07-02 11:02:45 <cacheson> more than that
1573 2011-07-02 11:02:47 <cacheson> heh
1574 2011-07-02 11:02:52 <Leo_II> justmoon: ok you got me convince that bitcoin will not crumble from any 51% attack but as a miner it would really be good to have a mechanism in place like described above. strategy now is go with the biggest pool and let the coders solve the problems. not nice as i prefer mining for a smaller pool but so be it.
1575 2011-07-02 11:03:15 <cacheson> Leo_II: why would you go with the biggest pool?
1576 2011-07-02 11:03:40 <Leo_II> why not?
1577 2011-07-02 11:03:56 <Leo_II> it is not a problem
1578 2011-07-02 11:04:02 <Leo_II> we just agreed on that
1579 2011-07-02 11:04:06 <cacheson> uh
1580 2011-07-02 11:04:12 <cacheson> it's not that it isn't a problem
1581 2011-07-02 11:04:22 <cacheson> it's just not an "end of bitcoin" scenario
1582 2011-07-02 11:04:51 <justmoon> yeah, you should should weigh the advantage of going with the biggest pool with the risk of it becoming too big
1583 2011-07-02 11:05:08 <justmoon> as a miner you want a high exchange rate, right?
1584 2011-07-02 11:05:16 <cacheson> bigger doesn't mean better with pools anyway
1585 2011-07-02 11:05:23 <Graet> a *lot* of new people just 'join the biggest" without research i have noticed
1586 2011-07-02 11:05:24 <cacheson> you want a reliable pool with a low fee
1587 2011-07-02 11:05:27 manifold_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1588 2011-07-02 11:05:29 <cacheson> regardless of size
1589 2011-07-02 11:06:13 <justmoon> exactly, big pools may be big because they're good, but all things being equal you should always go with the smaller pool
1590 2011-07-02 11:06:19 T_X1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1591 2011-07-02 11:06:32 <justmoon> as long as it's big enough to create a block every once in a while it shouldn't make any difference
1592 2011-07-02 11:06:38 <Leo_II> cacheson: we mined solo til now. i found one block on my desktop :) my brother showed me his eligius stats with 4/10 blocks being invalid. things like that smell like some 51% scenario to me so better be on the strong part till devs give me the tools to control what's going on
1593 2011-07-02 11:07:31 <justmoon> explain, you mined 10 blocks and 4 of them were rejected by the network?
1594 2011-07-02 11:07:57 <cacheson> Leo_II: pretty sure those aren't the result of a 51% attack
1595 2011-07-02 11:08:13 <Leo_II> justmoon: he mined for eligius and on the stats page for his account he read that he contributed to 10 blocks in a row which of 4 were rejected
1596 2011-07-02 11:08:14 <cacheson> sounds more like eligius crapped out
1597 2011-07-02 11:08:34 <cacheson> hence my point about picking a *reliable* pool
1598 2011-07-02 11:08:35 <Leo_II> a week ago that was.
1599 2011-07-02 11:08:46 <Leo_II> somehow eligius seems to be history anyway
1600 2011-07-02 11:08:50 <justmoon> Leo_II, eligius is luke-jr's pool, he's ... very experimentative
1601 2011-07-02 11:08:56 <justmoon> running custom software etc.
1602 2011-07-02 11:09:04 <Leo_II> :)
1603 2011-07-02 11:09:04 <cacheson> yeah
1604 2011-07-02 11:09:15 <justmoon> so that's what I would imagine is going on
1605 2011-07-02 11:09:18 <justmoon> but no idea
1606 2011-07-02 11:09:25 <Leo_II> i know about luke-jr. had an edit war with him
1607 2011-07-02 11:09:33 <justmoon> lol, who hasn't :D
1608 2011-07-02 11:09:38 <cacheson> I switched back to eligius briefly, only to find that I was getting huge runs of rejected shares because of some new feature that luke implemented
1609 2011-07-02 11:09:52 <justmoon> Leo_II, if the edit war wasn't about tonal bitcoin, you're one of the lucky ones
1610 2011-07-02 11:10:10 <Leo_II> he claims that solo mining with 500Mh grants a 96% chance to never find a block ever. at 8Th total
1611 2011-07-02 11:10:10 <justmoon> anyway if any pool shows that kind of rejection statistics I'd just switch period
1612 2011-07-02 11:10:45 <justmoon> Leo_II, never ever, can't be, even if I hash with paper and pencil I'll eventually find a block - in a trillion years
1613 2011-07-02 11:10:58 <justmoon> it's probabilistic
1614 2011-07-02 11:11:08 <Leo_II> justmoon: I read about tonals but sorry, if you need that crap ... there are people writing everything backwards. makes just as much sense.
1615 2011-07-02 11:11:38 <justmoon> Leo_II, yeah, the only one if favor of tonal is luke-jr, that's why we've all had edit wars with him over it
1616 2011-07-02 11:12:52 erus` has joined
1617 2011-07-02 11:12:55 <justmoon> mike hearn and I actually missed our train back from geneva when we discovered that luke added tonal bitcoin to the History page
1618 2011-07-02 11:12:59 <justmoon> good times xD
1619 2011-07-02 11:13:40 <Leo_II> justmoon: well ... i reworked the math and given our preconditions of exponential growth in difficulty you will have bad luck with pen and paper. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_pooled_mining
1620 2011-07-02 11:13:56 <Leo_II> :)
1621 2011-07-02 11:14:38 <justmoon> Leo_II, this is getting a bit nit-picky, but you can't extrapolate growth ad-infinitum
1622 2011-07-02 11:14:50 <justmoon> I guess on the balance of it you're more right though
1623 2011-07-02 11:15:08 <justmoon> I'd die before I find a block anyway :)
1624 2011-07-02 11:16:02 Nexus7 has quit ()
1625 2011-07-02 11:16:03 <justmoon> wouldn't it be frustrating if I got the right nonce once day, but made an error while calculating the hash?
1626 2011-07-02 11:17:29 <justmoon> final thought before I go back to doing actual work: bitcoin could very much so be implemented with pen and paper and carrier pidgeons, food for thought :)
1627 2011-07-02 11:18:59 Titeuf_87 has joined
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1629 2011-07-02 11:26:24 <Leo_II> proof of pidgen food kind of concept?
1630 2011-07-02 11:28:22 <justmoon> ;)
1631 2011-07-02 11:28:51 <Joric> is there a patch that adds total number of blocks to the status bar?
1632 2011-07-02 11:29:21 <justmoon> you mean including the blocks the client hasn't downloaded yet?
1633 2011-07-02 11:29:25 <Joric> yes
1634 2011-07-02 11:29:31 <Leo_II> ah :)
1635 2011-07-02 11:29:38 <Leo_II> how would you know?
1636 2011-07-02 11:29:45 <justmoon> that's not entirely trivial, you can't really trust other nodes about what they say the block chain length is
1637 2011-07-02 11:29:53 <Joric> i've read clients share that information already
1638 2011-07-02 11:29:54 <Leo_II> the client has to check the chain for validity
1639 2011-07-02 11:30:26 <justmoon> yeah anything you display there wouldn't be 100% reliable - might still make sense, idk
1640 2011-07-02 11:30:40 <justmoon> to answer your question: no, i don't know a patch
1641 2011-07-02 11:30:58 <cuddlefish> doLamportSig(construct.Struct("transaction")); tellSupernode(HAVDATA, "TX", transaction + sig);
1642 2011-07-02 11:31:34 <cuddlefish> heh, wrong window <<
1643 2011-07-02 11:31:51 <Joric> gmaxwell, hi there
1644 2011-07-02 11:32:18 <Joric> gmaxwell, you told client already exchanges that information "version message: version 32100, blocks=133643"
1645 2011-07-02 11:32:24 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 90000 1
1646 2011-07-02 11:32:24 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 90000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 47 seconds
1647 2011-07-02 11:33:00 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 180000 1
1648 2011-07-02 11:33:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 180000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 23 seconds
1649 2011-07-02 11:33:34 <Joric> total blocks is it's not a number that you should trust it's more like a progress bar
1650 2011-07-02 11:33:34 _ui has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1651 2011-07-02 11:34:01 <cuddlefish> 3: Struct("HAVDATA", Enum(UBInt8("type"), tx=0, peer=1, block=2, metablock=3, keyblock=4), String("data_hash", 64)),
1652 2011-07-02 11:34:09 <cuddlefish> <<
1653 2011-07-02 11:34:13 <cuddlefish> money-fighting middleclick
1654 2011-07-02 11:35:18 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r35c4dab / lib/peermanager.js :
1655 2011-07-02 11:35:18 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Require fewer minimum known peers.
1656 2011-07-02 11:35:18 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: minKnownPeers causes the client to re-execute DNS peer discovery again
1657 2011-07-02 11:35:18 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: and again until the number is reached. It should therefore be low
1658 2011-07-02 11:35:18 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: enough to be easily reached with DNS peer discovery.
1659 2011-07-02 11:35:18 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: We'll add more soft low limits that trigger peer discovery through
1660 2011-07-02 11:35:19 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: other means (including the p2p network "addr" command). - http://bit.ly/lcueQB
1661 2011-07-02 11:36:51 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1662 2011-07-02 11:37:00 f33x has joined
1663 2011-07-02 11:43:03 <Joric> hehe i like mingw naming convention d:\ becomes /d/
1664 2011-07-02 11:43:47 <AAA_awright> Now why doesn't Windows use that
1665 2011-07-02 11:44:15 <Joric> aha
1666 2011-07-02 11:44:40 <Joric> unfortunately there is problem with a total number of blocks - "Maximum is a silly statistic however, since it just takes one silly node to claim an outrageously high value and cause a lot of confusion"
1667 2011-07-02 11:44:40 <AAA_awright> It's this impossible game of "Hey we're gonna make absolute paths and relative paths indistinguishable"
1668 2011-07-02 11:45:09 zamgo has joined
1669 2011-07-02 11:45:27 <cuddlefish> AAA_awright: sure, they're distinguishable
1670 2011-07-02 11:45:40 <cuddlefish> /home/cuddlefish/.bitcoin: absolute
1671 2011-07-02 11:45:51 <cuddlefish> if i'm in /home
1672 2011-07-02 11:45:59 <cuddlefish> cuddlefish/.bitcoin: relative
1673 2011-07-02 11:46:11 <Joric> maybe it's worth take a weighted maximum, instead of just maximum )
1674 2011-07-02 11:46:47 <AAA_awright> cuddlefish: In Windows? There's no leading / and you have to worry if another file is case-insensitive the same name, or if there's a : in your filename, etc
1675 2011-07-02 11:48:23 <cuddlefish> AAA_awright: Oh, derp, thought you were advocating Windowsy 'namespaced paths'
1676 2011-07-02 11:48:38 <Joric> bitcoin has 248 forks on github already :)
1677 2011-07-02 11:48:46 <AAA_awright> Also, huh https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p neat
1678 2011-07-02 11:49:39 <zamgo> love the fork que
1679 2011-07-02 11:51:57 <Joric> tried to build it using gitian, found out gitian wants hardware VTx (for a virtual machine) which i don't have :(
1680 2011-07-02 11:52:29 erus`_ has joined
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1682 2011-07-02 11:53:38 <Joric> just made a patch showing "downloaded blocks / total number of blocks" cool, it works
1683 2011-07-02 11:53:53 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1684 2011-07-02 11:54:07 erus`_ is now known as erus`
1685 2011-07-02 11:54:25 <cuddlefish> Joric: how do you get the total
1686 2011-07-02 11:54:38 <Joric> it's in the protocol
1687 2011-07-02 11:55:10 <cuddlefish> ah, nice
1688 2011-07-02 11:55:19 <cuddlefish> that's in Carrot too, didn't know bitcoin did it
1689 2011-07-02 11:55:32 <Joric> the problem is it may be forged so it needs some additional work to eliminate 'bad' nodes with outrageously high value
1690 2011-07-02 11:56:21 <Joric> main.cpp:2446 printf("version message: version %d, blocks=%d\n", pfrom->nVersion, pfrom->nStartingHeight);
1691 2011-07-02 11:56:46 <D0han> Joric: you can take actual time and date and calculate if number of blocks is possible
1692 2011-07-02 11:56:48 <Joric> i just added nMaxHeight = nMaxHeight < pfrom->nStartingHeight ? pfrom->nStartingHeight : nMaxHeight;
1693 2011-07-02 11:58:07 <Joric> D0han, or that, or just eliminate random blasts somehow
1694 2011-07-02 11:59:39 <cuddlefish> Joric: the more I see this sort of thing, the more proud I am of carrot's architecture
1695 2011-07-02 11:59:49 <Joric> what's carrot
1696 2011-07-02 12:00:00 <cuddlefish> Joric: Alternate cryptocurrency
1697 2011-07-02 12:00:32 <Joric> oh shit i was afraid of that :) so bitcoins are obsolete already?
1698 2011-07-02 12:01:03 <cacheson> Joric: pretty much.  you can't eat bitcoins, after all
1699 2011-07-02 12:01:49 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1700 2011-07-02 12:02:12 <wumpus> so everything you can't eat is obsolete? uh oh
1701 2011-07-02 12:02:40 <cacheson> better act fast, there's gonna be a run on the grocery stores soon
1702 2011-07-02 12:02:57 <Joric> looks like the gui client does not use rpc calls, more like a spaghetti code
1703 2011-07-02 12:03:01 erus` has joined
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1705 2011-07-02 12:03:37 <wumpus> at least you can eat spaghetti
1706 2011-07-02 12:05:25 <wumpus> Joric: where's your patch? I'd like to include it in my gui as well
1707 2011-07-02 12:05:59 <cuddlefish> Joric: Carrot solves a lot of problems with Bitcoin, mostly scalability-related
1708 2011-07-02 12:06:05 <Joric> wumpus, it's very naive, just read the irc log it's pretty much all
1709 2011-07-02 12:06:56 <Joric> look for "%d blocks" in gui.cpp and add nMaxHeight there
1710 2011-07-02 12:08:10 <wumpus> ah I see, so your patch believes the highest reported number of blocks?
1711 2011-07-02 12:08:12 <Joric> gavin already made something called nTotalBlocksEstimate it's in the current branch
1712 2011-07-02 12:08:16 <Joric> yeah
1713 2011-07-02 12:10:34 <Joric> i'm also using coderrr's patch for better anonymity (send from specific address + show non-anonymous addresses :)
1714 2011-07-02 12:12:39 <Joric> still didn't try money laundering though :) don't know if mybitcoin/mtgox will do the trick
1715 2011-07-02 12:12:46 <wumpus> I wrote the ntotalblocks estimate stuff, but it was kind of a preparation for what you're doing.. it currently has a hardcoded estimate, and is used to show a progress bar on initial download in my GUI
1716 2011-07-02 12:13:33 <wumpus> the estimate could certainly be improved using input from other nodes, but the problem was that I didn't simply want to trust their input.. (on the other hand, implementing a median is also a pain)
1717 2011-07-02 12:14:10 <BlueMatt> Joric: yea, dont bother, send it through mtgox or any of the exchanges and its traceable, dont and you have bitcoins, have fun spending those...
1718 2011-07-02 12:14:10 mrenouf has joined
1719 2011-07-02 12:15:25 <BlueMatt> Joric: all the exchanges follow the relevant laws, meaning they will comply if the authorities ask for info on how/what/when/where/etc x bitcoins went through the exchange
1720 2011-07-02 12:15:26 <Joric> wumpus, it's not a median, it's more like a high-pass filter :)
1721 2011-07-02 12:16:10 <BlueMatt> wumpus: also, why did sipa recommend that you drop the hard-coded estimate to a very low number?
1722 2011-07-02 12:18:55 <wumpus> BlueMatt: the number he wanted to reduce to a low number was the 'initial download threshold'..  it is considered initial download when the current downloading block number is smaller than (total blocks estimate - threshold)
1723 2011-07-02 12:19:42 <BlueMatt> oh, that number
1724 2011-07-02 12:19:50 <BlueMatt> I thought it was block estimate that he wanted changed
1725 2011-07-02 12:19:58 <BlueMatt> yea, it would make sense to have a small number there
1726 2011-07-02 12:20:38 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1727 2011-07-02 12:23:33 <Joric> don't sure 'total number of blocks' should be 'estimated'. it's in the protocol, i'd take the most reported number assuming most clients have all the blocks
1728 2011-07-02 12:23:46 <wumpus> it *IS* an estimate
1729 2011-07-02 12:23:53 <Joric> well, yes
1730 2011-07-02 12:23:58 <wumpus> so I call it that, so people will only use it for visual purposes
1731 2011-07-02 12:24:17 <wumpus> and not to, let's say, allocate a data structure :P
1732 2011-07-02 12:24:34 <Joric> it's very handy though, i'm glad i'm finally seeng this without blockexplorer
1733 2011-07-02 12:24:39 <wumpus> yep
1734 2011-07-02 12:25:33 minimoose has joined
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1736 2011-07-02 12:28:52 spq has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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1738 2011-07-02 12:29:45 abragin has quit (Changing host)
1739 2011-07-02 12:29:45 abragin has joined
1740 2011-07-02 12:31:08 <wumpus> also, is that maximum updated during the run of the client? or only when it initially connects?
1741 2011-07-02 12:34:17 spq has joined
1742 2011-07-02 12:34:31 <Joric> wumpus, 'patch' http://pastebin.com/0tkSnvLB
1743 2011-07-02 12:34:55 <Joric> wumpus, it's updating on every connection
1744 2011-07-02 12:35:08 xtalmath has joined
1745 2011-07-02 12:35:22 <wumpus> thanks
1746 2011-07-02 12:35:29 <Joric> oops forgot to paste another bit
1747 2011-07-02 12:37:27 <Joric> here http://pastebin.com/EjiawDMu
1748 2011-07-02 12:37:34 <diki> so if there is pyopencl
1749 2011-07-02 12:37:42 <diki> is there a Copencl?
1750 2011-07-02 12:37:54 <Diablo-D3> ....
1751 2011-07-02 12:37:56 <Joric> wumpus, that's pretty much all
1752 2011-07-02 12:37:58 <Diablo-D3> opencl is natively C you moron
1753 2011-07-02 12:38:48 dvide_ has joined
1754 2011-07-02 12:39:19 <diki> it really sucks there is no example in c using opencl for mining
1755 2011-07-02 12:39:31 <diki> everything is done on languages such as python,java and whatnot
1756 2011-07-02 12:39:40 <Joric> wut?
1757 2011-07-02 12:39:45 Technic has joined
1758 2011-07-02 12:40:03 <Joric> i've seen c openclminer
1759 2011-07-02 12:40:16 <wumpus> why care about the programming language that much anyway
1760 2011-07-02 12:40:23 <Diablo-D3> diki: the code is identical, dude
1761 2011-07-02 12:40:24 <Joric> *oclminer
1762 2011-07-02 12:40:32 <wumpus> it's a miner, it mines... woo hoo
1763 2011-07-02 12:40:45 <diki> the opencl stuff might be the same, idk
1764 2011-07-02 12:40:51 abragin has quit ()
1765 2011-07-02 12:40:54 <diki> but the other part of the miner isn't
1766 2011-07-02 12:40:59 <Joric> oclminer is in the git
1767 2011-07-02 12:41:10 <Joric> ready to download
1768 2011-07-02 12:41:12 <wumpus> yes the opencl stuff is the same, which is the important part
1769 2011-07-02 12:41:24 erle- has joined
1770 2011-07-02 12:42:05 <doublec> diki: https://github.com/tcatm/oclminer
1771 2011-07-02 12:42:15 <diki> although i do care about the opencl stuff, i need more information on the other stuff
1772 2011-07-02 12:42:32 <diki> where other is nonces,midstates etc
1773 2011-07-02 12:42:39 <diki> and how they are used to produce a hash
1774 2011-07-02 12:43:04 <cut> define 'stuff'
1775 2011-07-02 12:43:20 <doublec> diki: oclminer, linked to inthat github link, is an opencl miner written in C
1776 2011-07-02 12:43:39 * diki remebered about jgarzik's minerd with gpu support
1777 2011-07-02 12:43:42 <diki> so i will first see that
1778 2011-07-02 12:44:06 oozyburglar has joined
1779 2011-07-02 12:44:11 <diki> i had completely forgotten that jgarzik wrote that in c..
1780 2011-07-02 12:44:48 pyro-DerWahre- has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1781 2011-07-02 12:45:16 <Joric> i was thinking of pixel shader miner but jgarzik sait it's a really slow toy :)
1782 2011-07-02 12:46:04 <Joric> though there's a sha256 code written in glsl floating around
1783 2011-07-02 12:46:05 RobinPKR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1784 2011-07-02 12:46:13 pyro-DerWahre- has joined
1785 2011-07-02 12:46:18 <wumpus> lol why use a pixel shader
1786 2011-07-02 12:46:33 <wumpus> we used to do that for gpgpu before opencl and friends came along, but now...
1787 2011-07-02 12:47:07 <Joric> most gpu's in the world are integrated into mb
1788 2011-07-02 12:47:43 <Diablo-D3> that implies Intel sells GPUs.
1789 2011-07-02 12:47:58 <wumpus> most gpus in the world are useless for mining
1790 2011-07-02 12:48:29 erus`_ has joined
1791 2011-07-02 12:49:07 <wumpus> (ie, the ones in mobile phones and laptops)
1792 2011-07-02 12:49:24 b4epoche_is_slee is now known as b4epoche_
1793 2011-07-02 12:49:38 <Joric> who knows, nobody ever wrote a glsl miner yet :)
1794 2011-07-02 12:49:55 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1795 2011-07-02 12:50:01 <wumpus> if you do the math you know it won't be worth your time :)
1796 2011-07-02 12:50:06 erus`_ is now known as erus`
1797 2011-07-02 12:52:26 RobinPKR has joined
1798 2011-07-02 12:54:25 <MrSam> hej guys
1799 2011-07-02 12:54:32 <MrSam> can anyone help me with the GetMinFee in main.h ?
1800 2011-07-02 12:54:42 <MrSam> i'm not quite sure where
1801 2011-07-02 12:54:43 <MrSam>         // Raise the price as the block approaches full
1802 2011-07-02 12:54:44 <MrSam> is for
1803 2011-07-02 12:57:41 <diki> wow
1804 2011-07-02 12:57:44 <diki> a new opt is out
1805 2011-07-02 12:57:56 <diki> however it doesnt fucking say what to replace in the cl file..
1806 2011-07-02 12:58:08 <Diablo-D3> diki: url
1807 2011-07-02 12:58:14 <b4epoche_> opt?  where?
1808 2011-07-02 12:58:29 <diki> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25135.0
1809 2011-07-02 13:00:59 <Diablo-D3> diki: heh, those are kinda pointless optimizations
1810 2011-07-02 13:01:03 <Diablo-D3> if those work, then the compiler is broken
1811 2011-07-02 13:01:20 <b4epoche_> yea, thinking the same
1812 2011-07-02 13:01:31 <b4epoche_> most of that stuff should be optimized out
1813 2011-07-02 13:02:01 <Diablo-D3> Im writing a perl script to demacro frakenkernel so I can just fix all this shit
1814 2011-07-02 13:02:01 <Joric> MrSam, what do you want to make with GetMinFee?
1815 2011-07-02 13:02:05 <Diablo-D3> fucking. macros.
1816 2011-07-02 13:02:15 Titeuf_87 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1817 2011-07-02 13:04:49 <MrSam> Joric: pfft i'm trying to figure out how much a tx is going to cost me before i send it
1818 2011-07-02 13:05:17 <MrSam> i understand
1819 2011-07-02 13:05:17 <MrSam>                 // Transactions under 10K are free
1820 2011-07-02 13:05:22 <MrSam> and
1821 2011-07-02 13:05:22 <MrSam>         // To limit dust spam, require MIN_TX_FEE/MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE if any output is less than 0.01
1822 2011-07-02 13:05:37 <MrSam> but not the last one
1823 2011-07-02 13:05:40 <diki> what is this frankenkernel?
1824 2011-07-02 13:06:38 <MrSam> Joric: can't i comment everything out except the min tx fee ?
1825 2011-07-02 13:07:06 <MrSam> it's not so much that i don't want to pay fee's it just sucks that i don't know it in advance when json'ing transactions
1826 2011-07-02 13:08:13 <Joric> MrSam, just set MIN_TX_FEE/MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE to zero for god's sake, you would not spam with dust transactions, would you?
1827 2011-07-02 13:08:14 nocreativenick1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1828 2011-07-02 13:08:15 theorb has joined
1829 2011-07-02 13:08:52 nocreativenick1 has joined
1830 2011-07-02 13:09:13 <MrSam> Joric: but if i send a transaction of 0.001 then it would never get confirmations ?
1831 2011-07-02 13:09:24 <MrSam> with MIN_TX_FEE at 0
1832 2011-07-02 13:10:10 theorbtwo has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
1833 2011-07-02 13:10:24 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
1834 2011-07-02 13:12:40 <Hetairie> .block 300
1835 2011-07-02 13:13:00 <Joric> i don't know really, wonder how much fee pays bitcoin faucet for a shitload of 0.001 transactions
1836 2011-07-02 13:13:03 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1837 2011-07-02 13:13:44 <Hetairie> me wan money for all transaction checked by my computer for make motivation to use bitcoin.
1838 2011-07-02 13:14:17 <b4epoche_> that's something I've been wondering...  what prevents someone from just modding the code and spamming?
1839 2011-07-02 13:14:20 <Hetairie> you understand devel?
1840 2011-07-02 13:14:39 abragin has joined
1841 2011-07-02 13:15:34 <Hetairie> where go 0.01 btc for transaction?
1842 2011-07-02 13:16:07 abragin has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1843 2011-07-02 13:16:28 <Hetairie> me need the same, if i lunch bitcoin i need money for all transaction checked.
1844 2011-07-02 13:16:48 Titeuf_87 has joined
1845 2011-07-02 13:17:17 abragin has joined
1846 2011-07-02 13:17:19 Jkessler has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1847 2011-07-02 13:17:29 <Hetairie> because mining solo stupid, for what use bitcoin? now devel find system to paid any user who check transaction.
1848 2011-07-02 13:17:40 <Hetairie> ça va Titeuf_87?
1849 2011-07-02 13:18:02 liltoe has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1850 2011-07-02 13:18:04 DukeOfURL has joined
1851 2011-07-02 13:18:06 <Titeuf_87> Hetairie, yes, just internet connection acting weird
1852 2011-07-02 13:19:02 <Hetairie> belgacom is big shit because flamoutch in the head of enterprise.
1853 2011-07-02 13:19:48 <Titeuf_87> it usually works fine for me
1854 2011-07-02 13:19:56 <Titeuf_87> just every now and then it randomly disconnects
1855 2011-07-02 13:20:33 <xtalmath> you 2 from belgium?
1856 2011-07-02 13:20:39 <Hetairie> not for me and for other...  in a dream i view one tower of belgacom crash, lol funny.
1857 2011-07-02 13:20:48 <Titeuf_87> I am xtalmath
1858 2011-07-02 13:21:04 <Hetairie> I am Butterfly.
1859 2011-07-02 13:21:11 <xtalmath> ?
1860 2011-07-02 13:21:39 <Hetairie> me in a jail in belgium
1861 2011-07-02 13:21:48 <Hetairie> i try to make money with bitcoin but no possible
1862 2011-07-02 13:22:23 <Hetairie> so my freedom for make any movement with money is no possible.
1863 2011-07-02 13:23:02 <Hetairie> flamoutch take all my money and poisoning me and put me in a jail...
1864 2011-07-02 13:23:26 <Hetairie> i need money for freedom, i try bitcoin but no work for me i think
1865 2011-07-02 13:23:59 <Titeuf_87> I had no idea you could get net access in jail.
1866 2011-07-02 13:24:16 <Hetairie> 300Mhash/s mining... i wait, i wait, i wait...  and 1 power suplie death...
1867 2011-07-02 13:24:27 <Hetairie> Titeuf_87 by WiFi ! :-)
1868 2011-07-02 13:24:53 <Hetairie> people out give me acces because i am in jail for nothing
1869 2011-07-02 13:26:07 <Hetairie> i have other idea for out of that jail... make bomb with water hydrogen
1870 2011-07-02 13:26:16 <Hetairie> but i try to out of this jail normaly
1871 2011-07-02 13:26:28 <Titeuf_87> What're you in jail for?
1872 2011-07-02 13:26:32 <Hetairie> after i explode the jail if i find no other solution
1873 2011-07-02 13:26:39 <Hetairie> in brux HELL
1874 2011-07-02 13:27:00 zamgo has quit ()
1875 2011-07-02 13:27:33 <Hetairie> iron atom, atonium... l'en FER !!!
1876 2011-07-02 13:27:39 <Hetairie> je fais de la taule !
1877 2011-07-02 13:27:41 <Hetairie> pour rien.
1878 2011-07-02 13:30:02 <Hetairie> it's possible for devel to make a solution for payd any user who check transaction? for motivate to use bitcoin?
1879 2011-07-02 13:31:08 <Titeuf_87> Check to see if transactions are valid?
1880 2011-07-02 13:31:45 <Hetairie> yes, if you paid 0.01 of charge, for what user no receive 0.005 or other?
1881 2011-07-02 13:32:44 <Hetairie> because my computer use lot of power for miner and lot of bandwith and both give me 0$ actualy...
1882 2011-07-02 13:33:40 <Hetairie> with no motivation i think stop use correctly bitcoin, and i go hack bitcoin for take money by the force.
1883 2011-07-02 13:33:52 <Titeuf_87> You could join a mining pool if you haven't yet?
1884 2011-07-02 13:34:00 TheAncientGoat has joined
1885 2011-07-02 13:34:17 <Hetairie> no good link for join good pool.
1886 2011-07-02 13:34:21 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVM•AVTEM•CENSEO•CVTTENBERC•ESSE•DELENDVM)
1887 2011-07-02 13:35:17 <Titeuf_87> Solo mining is hard now because there are so many miners out there.
1888 2011-07-02 13:35:23 ThomasV has joined
1889 2011-07-02 13:35:48 <Hetairie> but if developpers make good solution for pay anybody check transaction, that is correct too.
1890 2011-07-02 13:35:50 <Graet> hahaah Hetairie gave us as security lecture before in #bitcoin-aus
1891 2011-07-02 13:35:55 <Titeuf_87> I don't know the numbers as I don't mine myself, but you'd need plenty of luck to mine a block on your own.
1892 2011-07-02 13:35:59 cuddlefish has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1893 2011-07-02 13:38:30 <Hetairie> Graet it's no a joke, if have no motivation for continue to use bitcoin, i stop the project to make correct money and i take all bitcoin by forcing hack, holdup and everything else.
1894 2011-07-02 13:38:33 Joric has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1895 2011-07-02 13:38:57 Joric has joined
1896 2011-07-02 13:38:57 Joric has quit (Changing host)
1897 2011-07-02 13:38:57 Joric has joined
1898 2011-07-02 13:39:02 <Hetairie> because my computer work for nothing, and me is in a jail because other user take all my bitcoin because bitcoin no secure.
1899 2011-07-02 13:39:08 <Hetairie> i go make the same
1900 2011-07-02 13:39:14 <Graet> um iirc you said someone hacked your network and mined bitcoins
1901 2011-07-02 13:39:17 <Hetairie> for come back all my money
1902 2011-07-02 13:39:41 <Graet> so again i say each user must secure thier own network!!
1903 2011-07-02 13:39:58 <Graet> but anyway ... troll away :) i got better things to do
1904 2011-07-02 13:40:28 <Hetairie> i say again, my network is now secure, but hackers take wallet.dat with a java script when you visiting a website.
1905 2011-07-02 13:41:02 <Hetairie> after, your computer work 100% because java script force you to mining.
1906 2011-07-02 13:41:04 Joric has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1907 2011-07-02 13:41:06 <Hetairie> and that is real.
1908 2011-07-02 13:41:24 Joric has joined
1909 2011-07-02 13:41:35 Joric has quit (Changing host)
1910 2011-07-02 13:41:35 Joric has joined
1911 2011-07-02 13:41:37 <cut> Hetairie is an hero and doesnt afraid of anything
1912 2011-07-02 13:42:28 <Hetairie> exactement, j'ai peur de personne, alors faites pas chier.
1913 2011-07-02 13:42:40 <Hetairie> je signal que je suis en prison car on m'a volé tout mon argent
1914 2011-07-02 13:42:47 norulez has joined
1915 2011-07-02 13:42:47 <Hetairie> alors vous allez me le rendre vite fait
1916 2011-07-02 13:42:57 <Hetairie> sinon je vais faire la même chose que vous pour reprendre mes affaires
1917 2011-07-02 13:44:44 <norulez> hey. can anyone tell me why i'm getting this error when i'm trying to launch pushpool? - "tcp socket: Address family not supported by protocol". i've tried disabling IPv6 and rebooting.
1918 2011-07-02 13:46:32 T_X has joined
1919 2011-07-02 13:50:49 <Hetairie> who reception all the fee?
1920 2011-07-02 13:51:22 <justmoon> transaction fees go to the miner who solved the block that a transaction is included in
1921 2011-07-02 13:52:06 <Hetairie> lol :-)
1922 2011-07-02 13:52:42 rakkkta has joined
1923 2011-07-02 13:52:47 <Hetairie> and for what fee go not to a checker transaction?
1924 2011-07-02 13:52:53 <justmoon> ?
1925 2011-07-02 13:53:02 <Hetairie> you think me is a cheap?
1926 2011-07-02 13:53:08 <justmoon> ?
1927 2011-07-02 13:53:42 <Hetairie> if you think me is a cheap for make your job you make big mystake
1928 2011-07-02 13:53:50 <Hetairie> all work need money
1929 2011-07-02 13:53:55 <norulez> dude, learn english
1930 2011-07-02 13:54:00 <Hetairie> so give me money when my computer work for you
1931 2011-07-02 13:54:30 <b4epoche_> this conversation is probably even more amusing with /ignore
1932 2011-07-02 13:54:31 <justmoon> if you mine properly, you'll get bitcoins
1933 2011-07-02 13:54:31 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1934 2011-07-02 13:54:40 <justmoon> if you don't know how to mine properly, don't mine
1935 2011-07-02 13:54:55 <Hetairie> if no, i can place bot lier for crash all your bitcoin system and more other solution for take all my money.
1936 2011-07-02 13:55:25 <justmoon> Hetairie, you can't, smarter people have tried. no offense
1937 2011-07-02 13:55:29 <ThomasV> b4epoche: lol
1938 2011-07-02 13:56:21 <Hetairie> no joke with me, is say again, bitcoin crash soon because i can place bot liar who accept anything transaction because i am no pay for work.
1939 2011-07-02 13:56:33 <Hetairie> 1 week work and my account 0$
1940 2011-07-02 13:56:35 <Hetairie> no normal
1941 2011-07-02 13:56:49 <justmoon> did you mine alone or in a pool?
1942 2011-07-02 13:56:55 <b4epoche_> here's a question...  what prevents someone from not reporting a solved block back to the pool?
1943 2011-07-02 13:57:06 <justmoon> b4epoche, if they don't report it they don't get paid
1944 2011-07-02 13:57:12 <iz> b4epoche_: nothing, but why would they do that?
1945 2011-07-02 13:57:22 <Hetairie> alone @ 300Mhas/s but normaly all transaction checked by user need paiment.
1946 2011-07-02 13:57:35 <Joric> doubt 'you think me is a cheap' is a proper english, it should be 'you think I am cheap' i'm not a native speaker though
1947 2011-07-02 13:57:35 <justmoon> b4epoche, remember the blocks contain the pool's address for the 50 BTC reward, not the miners
1948 2011-07-02 13:57:40 <iz> b4epoche_: they can't use the solution themselves either, b/c they don't have the transaction tree
1949 2011-07-02 13:57:42 <Hetairie> and developper think people are cheap or sheep...
1950 2011-07-02 13:57:57 <b4epoche_> iz:  that's what I was wondering
1951 2011-07-02 13:58:03 <Hetairie> me no a sheep so give me money for all transaction checked.
1952 2011-07-02 13:58:17 <iz> yeah, also as justmoon said, the generate transaction will already be for the pool's address
1953 2011-07-02 13:58:32 <justmoon>  ;;bc,calc 300000
1954 2011-07-02 13:58:34 <Hetairie> or i place in your system lot of bot liar who crash your system with accept any transaction.
1955 2011-07-02 13:58:38 karnac has joined
1956 2011-07-02 13:58:40 <justmoon> ;;bc,calc 300000
1957 2011-07-02 13:58:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 32 weeks, 4 days, 12 hours, 55 minutes, and 31 seconds
1958 2011-07-02 13:59:01 <justmoon> Hetairie, at 300 MHash/s you need to mine 32 weeks on average to get a 50 BTC block
1959 2011-07-02 13:59:11 <justmoon> join a pool and you'll get paid in smaller increments
1960 2011-07-02 13:59:12 <iz> Hetairie: it doesn't matter how many nodes there are, just how much hashing power they are contributing
1961 2011-07-02 13:59:46 <Hetairie> 32 weeks... you joke or what? 280Watt*24*7*32 ? you joke? and is no sure after 32 week to find 1 block.
1962 2011-07-02 14:00:01 <justmoon> Hetairie, correct
1963 2011-07-02 14:00:02 <Hetairie> when i have other solution, payd any user check transaction.
1964 2011-07-02 14:00:58 <Hetairie> when i have money, i go play casino accept bitcoin and my try to play.
1965 2011-07-02 14:01:08 <Hetairie> is easy
1966 2011-07-02 14:01:18 <Hetairie> because now, bitcoin make jail...
1967 2011-07-02 14:01:25 <ThomasV> Hetairie: are you in jail because of something related to bitcoin ?
1968 2011-07-02 14:01:43 <justmoon> ThomasV, yes, he's writing to us from the jail right now
1969 2011-07-02 14:01:49 <justmoon> troll jail
1970 2011-07-02 14:02:08 <ThomasV> they have internet in that jail ?
1971 2011-07-02 14:02:15 <justmoon> yes, troll internet
1972 2011-07-02 14:02:17 <ThomasV> what country is that ?
1973 2011-07-02 14:02:20 <Hetairie> i am in jail because fucking asshole compromise my network by poisonning and place miner in all my computer.
1974 2011-07-02 14:02:20 <norulez> anyone know how to solve that error with pushpool and ubuntu 11.04?  :( "tcp socket: Address family not supported by protocol"
1975 2011-07-02 14:02:20 <justmoon> belgium
1976 2011-07-02 14:02:22 <Hetairie> the asshole make lot of money with my computers
1977 2011-07-02 14:02:41 <Hetairie> now i call the police
1978 2011-07-02 14:02:53 <Hetairie> the police remove bitcoin of all my computer
1979 2011-07-02 14:03:03 <Hetairie> i placer myself bitcoin in a only 1 computer
1980 2011-07-02 14:03:13 <Joric> there are several possible attacks, you may start an explosive complexity growth but it's quite expensive
1981 2011-07-02 14:03:22 <Hetairie> for testing
1982 2011-07-02 14:03:24 <ThomasV> the police knows how to remove the bitcoin daemon ?
1983 2011-07-02 14:03:47 <Joric> namecoins were attacked like that a few days ago
1984 2011-07-02 14:03:48 <Hetairie> yes, in belgium the E cop is like a geek police.
1985 2011-07-02 14:04:15 <justmoon> Joric, end result?
1986 2011-07-02 14:04:16 <ThomasV> oh, and the e cop sent you to jail ? or is than an e jail ?
1987 2011-07-02 14:04:25 <Hetairie> geek police is a very very old pirate hackers.
1988 2011-07-02 14:05:00 <iz> Hetairie: if there were a bunch of bitcoin miners programs, there wouldn't have been bitcoin (accounts) on those machines anyway
1989 2011-07-02 14:05:03 <Joric> justmoon, well, it's not that profitable to mine namecoins anymore
1990 2011-07-02 14:05:32 <justmoon> Joric, k
1991 2011-07-02 14:06:01 <Hetairie> now, you paid me for anything transaction checked or not?  i no need lot of money, but a minimum for to play.
1992 2011-07-02 14:07:03 <justmoon> Hetairie, nobody here makes any money with bitcoin, this is the developer channel, we do this shit without getting paid
1993 2011-07-02 14:07:05 <iz> Hetairie: are you trying to ask us if we paid you the 50 btc reward yet for mining?  because you are eager to play online poker with it?
1994 2011-07-02 14:07:55 <Hetairie> yes i need to play, because i am in a jail, or i play or my spirit say me suicide or agrecive comportement.
1995 2011-07-02 14:07:58 <iz> it doesn't work like that.. it's decentralized.. no one is controlling it
1996 2011-07-02 14:08:23 <justmoon> iz: I'm actually controlling it, but don't tell anyone
1997 2011-07-02 14:08:31 <iz> you should use a mining pool though, if you want to just make some quick bitcoins
1998 2011-07-02 14:08:32 <Joric> Hetairie, do you have google+ invites? i'd buy for, say, 0.01 btc :)
1999 2011-07-02 14:08:41 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2000 2011-07-02 14:09:09 <Hetairie> i existing without my choix, i think jew play with my brain and connect me by force in a network blocked by money protocol...
2001 2011-07-02 14:09:24 molecular has joined
2002 2011-07-02 14:09:26 <Hetairie> i need play or no exist.
2003 2011-07-02 14:09:27 <justmoon> alright I gotta go back to work, good luck with your revenge Het
2004 2011-07-02 14:10:37 <Hetairie> i think, jew creat hitler, and hitler destruct all jew.
2005 2011-07-02 14:11:15 <Hetairie> for what i existing here without my chose for jew make money with me?
2006 2011-07-02 14:11:23 <Hetairie> choice
2007 2011-07-02 14:11:37 <iz> well, are you saying "you" with a heavy accent or talking about jewish ppl?
2008 2011-07-02 14:11:49 <Joric> both starting from H
2009 2011-07-02 14:12:33 Strogge has joined
2010 2011-07-02 14:12:45 <Hetairie> i am like an animal violated for elevate me and after killing me for eat me?
2011 2011-07-02 14:13:12 <iz> yes
2012 2011-07-02 14:13:13 <Hetairie> you no idea what you risk to eat me :-)
2013 2011-07-02 14:13:23 <Hetairie> i am a jew killer
2014 2011-07-02 14:13:47 <Hetairie> eat me and i destruc all you inside
2015 2011-07-02 14:13:54 <Hetairie> eat me and i destruct all you inside
2016 2011-07-02 14:14:10 <Hetairie> because i exist without my choice.
2017 2011-07-02 14:14:19 <iz> okay, okay.. i won't eat you then..
2018 2011-07-02 14:14:47 <Hetairie> anybody try to contain me, finish burned.
2019 2011-07-02 14:14:55 <Hetairie> or explosed
2020 2011-07-02 14:15:07 <iz> Finnish burned?
2021 2011-07-02 14:15:12 <Hetairie> in the begin i am cool.
2022 2011-07-02 14:15:26 <norulez> don't burn the finnish D:
2023 2011-07-02 14:15:34 <Hetairie> but if you think me is a sheep, you make big big big mystake...
2024 2011-07-02 14:15:53 <Hetairie> with only 2L of water, i destruct all your home.
2025 2011-07-02 14:15:54 gim has joined
2026 2011-07-02 14:16:14 <Hetairie> no need dynamit or TNT or C4, only 2L of water.
2027 2011-07-02 14:16:23 <Hetairie> and BIG BOUM BADABOUM!
2028 2011-07-02 14:16:34 <iz> with just the water?
2029 2011-07-02 14:16:37 <Hetairie> yes
2030 2011-07-02 14:16:48 <iz> how do you do that?
2031 2011-07-02 14:17:08 Shuddertrix has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2032 2011-07-02 14:17:37 <Hetairie> water is very explosive, i am in a jail, if i find no other solution for out of here, i explose the jail with water, and my body 85Kg of water... that a big bomb H !!!
2033 2011-07-02 14:17:38 <Hetairie> ahahaha
2034 2011-07-02 14:18:04 <iz> oh.. like.. seperate it into O2 and H2 gases first maybe..
2035 2011-07-02 14:18:12 <norulez> you could make millions if you tell me your amazing water secrets
2036 2011-07-02 14:18:27 <iz> then you could make water explode pretty easily
2037 2011-07-02 14:18:46 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2038 2011-07-02 14:19:03 <Hetairie> or i play for sleep, or if i continue to make wakup because asshole mining with my compter, i make the last solution for stop that.
2039 2011-07-02 14:19:14 norulez has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2040 2011-07-02 14:20:11 <iz> yeah.. you and me both man.. well.. take it easy..
2041 2011-07-02 14:20:14 * iz wanders off..
2042 2011-07-02 14:20:27 <Hetairie> you understand? jew think dreamer is a bug, the bug placed in the jail by mystake.
2043 2011-07-02 14:20:56 <Hetairie> i need to out of here or i kill you all jew developpers of bad softwares make hell in a computer of innocent people.
2044 2011-07-02 14:20:57 <b4epoche_> water bullets:  http://gizmodo.com/5817650/water-caught-at-7000-fps-is-mesmerizing
2045 2011-07-02 14:22:31 <xtalmath> Hetairie: your so full of shit, photo or I dont believe it, link to credible belgian newspaper article about your case or get outta here
2046 2011-07-02 14:23:52 <Hetairie> xtalmath come here and look center of brussels is like africa, real belgian placed in the jail and colonisator dwell in our homes
2047 2011-07-02 14:24:17 <xtalmath> Hetairie: your still full of shit, I _live_ in belgium
2048 2011-07-02 14:24:19 <Hetairie> it's the same story of trojan
2049 2011-07-02 14:24:42 <Hetairie> xtalmath you are not a real belgian boy but a colonisator if you life good in belgium
2050 2011-07-02 14:25:08 <Hetairie> xtalmath what is your real nationality?
2051 2011-07-02 14:25:13 <xtalmath> who are your "colonisator"s anyway?
2052 2011-07-02 14:25:19 <xtalmath> Hetairie: double nationality
2053 2011-07-02 14:25:30 <xtalmath> US, Belgian
2054 2011-07-02 14:25:57 <Hetairie> who find US? christophe colon... colon = colonisateur.
2055 2011-07-02 14:25:58 <xtalmath> Hetairie: I live good enough, but im certainly below middle class
2056 2011-07-02 14:26:22 <Hetairie> what money for life in belgium any month?
2057 2011-07-02 14:26:35 <xtalmath> life IS a colony
2058 2011-07-02 14:27:10 <Hetairie> me under 760 it's impossible to life with that so i think holdup a bank or kill people.
2059 2011-07-02 14:27:19 <xtalmath> Hetairie: if thats your definition of colonisators, then who is not a colonisator? rocks?
2060 2011-07-02 14:27:33 <xtalmath> you spend 760 euros a month?
2061 2011-07-02 14:28:00 shLONG has joined
2062 2011-07-02 14:28:03 <xtalmath> Hetairie: holdup a bank or kill people is not a solution
2063 2011-07-02 14:28:04 <ThomasV> rocks can be colonisators...
2064 2011-07-02 14:28:14 kom has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2065 2011-07-02 14:28:18 <Hetairie> me no colonisator, me real belgian people, belgium is a royaume with a king.  belgium like a big house, but in the house enter trojan try to take power.
2066 2011-07-02 14:28:48 <Hetairie> and me in the jail in the house of my father.
2067 2011-07-02 14:28:51 <xtalmath> Hetairie: me like french fries too!
2068 2011-07-02 14:28:59 <ThomasV> Hetairie: is there a channel for belgian bitcoiners held in jail ?
2069 2011-07-02 14:28:59 <gmaxwell> Spatula. Duck. Rutabaga. Tromp.
2070 2011-07-02 14:29:11 <xtalmath> the jail of the house of your father? how old are you?
2071 2011-07-02 14:29:31 <xtalmath> guess they hand out netbooks to toddlers in their cribs these days
2072 2011-07-02 14:30:03 <Hetairie> xtalmath when you hack a computer, you change root password for take power.  the real owner no access and in the jail.
2073 2011-07-02 14:30:21 <xtalmath> in the jail of his father yes...
2074 2011-07-02 14:30:28 <Hetairie> the dreamer is in the jail...
2075 2011-07-02 14:30:40 <ThomasV> or of his mother..
2076 2011-07-02 14:30:50 <Hetairie> me wan kill my mother
2077 2011-07-02 14:31:12 <ThomasV> oh that's a brilliant idea
2078 2011-07-02 14:31:14 <gmaxwell> Hetairie: Does your mother develop bitcoin?
2079 2011-07-02 14:31:24 <b4epoche_> his mother is Satoshi
2080 2011-07-02 14:31:24 <Hetairie> because it's my mother poisonning me.
2081 2011-07-02 14:31:44 <Hetairie> as a witch
2082 2011-07-02 14:31:49 <ThomasV> hmm let us start #bitcoin-poison
2083 2011-07-02 14:31:50 <xtalmath> his mother stole his gaming gpu to get rich, now shes in bahamas and feels stuck in jail
2084 2011-07-02 14:31:58 <xtalmath> and he feels...
2085 2011-07-02 14:32:15 <gmaxwell> xtalmath: And this is related to bitcoin development how?
2086 2011-07-02 14:32:23 <xtalmath> I have no clue
2087 2011-07-02 14:32:41 * gmaxwell directs everyone to #bitcoin-incoherent-gibbering
2088 2011-07-02 14:32:56 <xtalmath> I see he s french speaking natively, perhaps he has hard time expressing a real bitcoin related problem in english?
2089 2011-07-02 14:33:06 zamgo has joined
2090 2011-07-02 14:33:25 <Joric> Hetairie, speak french already, most ppl here learned it in school
2091 2011-07-02 14:33:31 <Hetairie> xtalmath me life here with 760 euros a month, that no a life but a jail
2092 2011-07-02 14:33:42 <Hetairie> je parle très bien français
2093 2011-07-02 14:33:48 <ThomasV> Hetairie: how old are you ?
2094 2011-07-02 14:33:54 <iz> i think he originally came in here to complain that it was taking to long for us to issue the mining rewards for solo mining
2095 2011-07-02 14:33:56 <Hetairie> 36
2096 2011-07-02 14:33:58 <xtalmath> hetairie: i survive on what I get: 200-300 euro a month
2097 2011-07-02 14:34:06 <iz> too
2098 2011-07-02 14:34:21 <Hetairie> tu dois pas payer de loyer alors xtalmath
2099 2011-07-02 14:34:27 <Joric> Hetairie, super
2100 2011-07-02 14:34:34 <xtalmath> mais oui je doi
2101 2011-07-02 14:34:56 <xtalmath> jhabite dans un home d universite
2102 2011-07-02 14:35:07 <Hetairie> et combient tu paies ton loyé?
2103 2011-07-02 14:35:11 <Burgundy> Please stop speaking turkish!
2104 2011-07-02 14:35:19 <xtalmath> 130 euros
2105 2011-07-02 14:35:30 <Hetairie> et comment tu fais pour manger?
2106 2011-07-02 14:35:37 <Hetairie> ou pour t'amuser?
2107 2011-07-02 14:35:51 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
2108 2011-07-02 14:35:56 rakkkta has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2109 2011-07-02 14:36:00 <xtalmath> je fume meme, quant tu sais vivre pas chere ca suffice
2110 2011-07-02 14:36:28 <Hetairie> tu manges low cost et tu te fais pas empoisonner comme moi?
2111 2011-07-02 14:36:31 <zamgo> je ne sais pas
2112 2011-07-02 14:36:38 <Hetairie> car moi en prison, dans la nourriture il y a du poison.
2113 2011-07-02 14:36:46 p0s has joined
2114 2011-07-02 14:36:48 <Joric> Allons enfants de la Patrie,
2115 2011-07-02 14:36:52 <xtalmath> quel prison ou?
2116 2011-07-02 14:36:55 <Joric> Le jour de gloire est arrive !
2117 2011-07-02 14:37:10 <Hetairie> allons enfants de l'anarchi iieuuu, le jour de gloire est arrivé!!!!
2118 2011-07-02 14:37:44 <Hetairie> A là pêche aux moules moules moules, je vais y retourner maman, tuer les gens de la ville ville ville, qui m'ont volé mon panier maman! :-)
2119 2011-07-02 14:37:48 <MrSam> why does compiling bitcoind has to take so looooooooooooon
2120 2011-07-02 14:38:13 <Hetairie> xtalmath à bruxelles
2121 2011-07-02 14:38:20 <MrSam> wow, depuis quand #bitcoin-dev est devenu un chan francais ? :P
2122 2011-07-02 14:38:26 <Hetairie> bruxelles est une prison.
2123 2011-07-02 14:38:33 <MrSam> brussel halle vilvoorde voil hoer !
2124 2011-07-02 14:38:38 <MrSam> hier spreekt men nederlands :P
2125 2011-07-02 14:38:41 <Hetairie> MrSam depuis que tu as trouvé un block et recu des bitcoins :-)
2126 2011-07-02 14:39:08 <xtalmath> MrSam: the virtual machine hidden in the macros, is quite complex to convert to gimple, you cant convince an entire network of security related people that the code is safe AND have it compile fast
2127 2011-07-02 14:39:21 <Hetairie> les flamants sont des trojans qui veulent prendre bruxelles et ils ne sont pas contant parce qu'il y a un firewallON
2128 2011-07-02 14:39:33 <xtalmath> djeezes
2129 2011-07-02 14:39:42 <MrSam> i don't care, im from leuven and i don't vote for de wever :P
2130 2011-07-02 14:39:50 <Burgundy> how about less french and less policitis?
2131 2011-07-02 14:39:59 <Burgundy> make that politics
2132 2011-07-02 14:40:09 <MrSam> xtalmath: yeah, i know, but i like to complain
2133 2011-07-02 14:40:14 <MrSam> like all devs do i guess
2134 2011-07-02 14:40:31 <dsockwell> did someone say complain?
2135 2011-07-02 14:40:35 <xtalmath> MrSam: was joking
2136 2011-07-02 14:41:10 <Hetairie> here in belgium not gouvernament, for what? because i have capacity to drive with water and free energy, when people know that, gouvernemant is in danger because gouvernement take lot money of people.
2137 2011-07-02 14:41:26 <Hetairie> le gouvernement en belgique il est parti car il a peur de nous
2138 2011-07-02 14:41:31 <Hetairie> on est reveillé
2139 2011-07-02 14:41:46 <Hetairie> et les flamants vont se faire massacrer car ils ont reveillé hitler.
2140 2011-07-02 14:42:02 quellhorst has joined
2141 2011-07-02 14:42:08 <Hetairie> ils l'ont rendu fou à retirer les inscriptions francophones sur les plaque des rues.
2142 2011-07-02 14:42:27 <Hetairie> alors que ce n'est pas le pays des flamants ici, les flamants leur pays c'est la hollande.
2143 2011-07-02 14:42:41 <xtalmath> did anybody notice that the new google tries to suppress wikipedia articles unless you explicitly add wikipedia?
2144 2011-07-02 14:43:04 <MrSam> hmm
2145 2011-07-02 14:43:17 <gim> the "new google"?
2146 2011-07-02 14:43:23 Jkessler has joined
2147 2011-07-02 14:43:38 Teslah has joined
2148 2011-07-02 14:43:39 <MrSam> xtalmath: http://www.google.com/search?q=bitcoin returns wiki ?
2149 2011-07-02 14:44:15 <Joric> xtalmath, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PageRank
2150 2011-07-02 14:44:17 <Hetairie> for wikipedia call nick elfix that is the responsable in freenode, but eflix is a pedophilia user, make poisonning with wikipedia majority of information of wikipedia it's no true.
2151 2011-07-02 14:44:54 * xtalmath /ignore s Hetairie
2152 2011-07-02 14:45:44 * gim slaps git for not being able to cope with code moving from one file to another
2153 2011-07-02 14:46:56 <MrSam> real men use cvs
2154 2011-07-02 14:46:57 <MrSam> :P
2155 2011-07-02 14:47:08 <MrSam> and telnet, ssh is overrated
2156 2011-07-02 14:47:10 <nus> real men use rcs
2157 2011-07-02 14:47:13 <nus> :-P (-;
2158 2011-07-02 14:47:21 <Hetairie> xtalmath when i show you in bruxelles, i kick your face, you no belive me bruxelles is a jail, you no belive me me existing whithout my choice, you look what you creat with play with my object.
2159 2011-07-02 14:47:35 <Hetairie> you are in ULB auderghem
2160 2011-07-02 14:47:40 <Hetairie> i smell that xtalmath
2161 2011-07-02 14:47:43 <nus> Hetairie, your english stalls my parser
2162 2011-07-02 14:47:49 <dsockwell> xtalmath: it seems you're either with him, or you're with the pedophiles.
2163 2011-07-02 14:47:54 <dsockwell> you'd better reconsider
2164 2011-07-02 14:48:00 dbasch has joined
2165 2011-07-02 14:48:03 <Hetairie> toi espece d'a nus ta gueule enfoiré de merde
2166 2011-07-02 14:48:09 <xtalmath> dsockwell: how so?
2167 2011-07-02 14:48:14 <luke-jr> Leo_II: I didn't claim anythign about %s; the problem was you were just outright deleting stuff, rather than fixing what you perceived as a problem
2168 2011-07-02 14:48:37 <dsockwell> xtalmath: i'm only the messenger here
2169 2011-07-02 14:48:55 <Hetairie> like cipher in matrix ?
2170 2011-07-02 14:48:58 <dsockwell> xtalmath: also you're usama bin laden
2171 2011-07-02 14:49:13 <MrSam> terrorist use bitcoins !
2172 2011-07-02 14:49:16 <nus> Hetairie, what?
2173 2011-07-02 14:49:18 <xtalmath> what other nonsense
2174 2011-07-02 14:49:25 <dsockwell> xtalmath: would you believe hitler, too?
2175 2011-07-02 14:49:28 <Hetairie> USA ma .bin .exe. laden ?
2176 2011-07-02 14:50:00 <xtalmath> you must be that antibirthcontrol pill guy, lemme find his link
2177 2011-07-02 14:50:12 <Leo_II> luke-jr: the whole article was plain wrong and the upper half still is. yes i was not motivated to do the maths at first but stating something that might be computable but stating it wrong can not stay as an article as it is missleading to readers. thus -> {{delete}}
2178 2011-07-02 14:50:22 <xtalmath> making early nietschzian wordplay
2179 2011-07-02 14:50:22 <Joric> 'nMaxBlocks' patch: http://pastebin.com/EjiawDMu screenshot: http://i52.tinypic.com/b997oj.jpg
2180 2011-07-02 14:50:50 Teslah has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2181 2011-07-02 14:51:09 Teslah has joined
2182 2011-07-02 14:51:26 dbasch has quit (Client Quit)
2183 2011-07-02 14:51:35 <Joric> i.e. nMaxHeight :) note blocks / total blocks
2184 2011-07-02 14:51:39 <dsockwell> xtalmath: on the contrary, the penis is evil; it poisons earth with the plague of man
2185 2011-07-02 14:51:42 <Hetairie> me lunch my cross game ('swastika') in a face of all jew.
2186 2011-07-02 14:51:44 Clipse has joined
2187 2011-07-02 14:51:48 <Hetairie> HELL !
2188 2011-07-02 14:52:01 <dsockwell> Hetairie: that's 'heil'
2189 2011-07-02 14:52:05 <Joric> you funny
2190 2011-07-02 14:52:07 <Hetairie> no
2191 2011-07-02 14:52:18 <Hetairie> heil is a deformation jew for poisonning people
2192 2011-07-02 14:53:07 <nus> heh, no ops around? or is this the channels' favorite troll?-)
2193 2011-07-02 14:53:28 <Joric> he's belgian
2194 2011-07-02 14:53:29 <luke-jr> Leo_II: the conclusion is still correct, no matter the math
2195 2011-07-02 14:53:31 <nus> s/channels'/channel's/
2196 2011-07-02 14:53:35 <Joric> i like waffles
2197 2011-07-02 14:53:55 <Hetairie> normaly it's ail! because when hitler burn all jew, jew say ail hurts !
2198 2011-07-02 14:54:10 <Hetairie> ahahaha :-)
2199 2011-07-02 14:54:17 <xtalmath> Hetairie: did you know that in #witcoin you can get BTC for just talking?
2200 2011-07-02 14:54:22 <Leo_II> luke-jr: which conclusion?
2201 2011-07-02 14:54:42 <luke-jr> Leo_II: that pooled mining is always better than solo mining
2202 2011-07-02 14:54:47 <nus> Joric, does being belgian excuse trolling?
2203 2011-07-02 14:54:49 <Leo_II> luke-jr: that mining in a pool gives more profit than mining solo? no, that is not correct.
2204 2011-07-02 14:54:51 <luke-jr> from a profits view
2205 2011-07-02 14:54:53 <luke-jr> yes it is
2206 2011-07-02 14:54:59 <Leo_II> no it isn't
2207 2011-07-02 14:55:06 <Hetairie> no need tal king, i need play or no exist, is easy to understand that or not?
2208 2011-07-02 14:55:33 <Leo_II> 5% chance to gain 20 is as profitable as 100% chance to gain 1
2209 2011-07-02 14:56:19 <luke-jr> Leo_II: except solo mining wastes hashing power
2210 2011-07-02 14:56:45 <gim> Leo_II:  if you need 1 to survive the second game is better
2211 2011-07-02 14:56:50 <Leo_II> so does pool mining. at least at eligius when the client is fucked up again
2212 2011-07-02 14:56:54 <Leo_II> (sorry)
2213 2011-07-02 14:56:54 <gim> if you need 20 play the first one
2214 2011-07-02 14:56:55 <Joric> xtalmath, are you sure they don't pay in 'witcoins'?
2215 2011-07-02 14:57:32 <Hetairie> the duck make coin coin...
2216 2011-07-02 14:57:40 <Hetairie> and me kill bitcoin
2217 2011-07-02 14:57:55 <xtalmath> Joric: just trying to lure Hetairie away from here
2218 2011-07-02 14:58:01 <Joric> i hate racism and belgians
2219 2011-07-02 14:58:05 <Leo_II> yes, long polling can give you a 2% advantage but this is quick gone when the pool is DOSd 2% of the time
2220 2011-07-02 14:58:12 rethaw has joined
2221 2011-07-02 14:58:18 <xtalmath> Joric: not all belgians are racists
2222 2011-07-02 14:58:24 <luke-jr> Leo_II: you overlook that miners support failover
2223 2011-07-02 14:58:29 <Hetairie> yes all belgian are racist
2224 2011-07-02 14:58:34 <xtalmath> ...
2225 2011-07-02 14:58:40 <Hetairie> because belgium are closed country normaly
2226 2011-07-02 14:58:48 <nus> Hetairie, how old are you, btw?
2227 2011-07-02 14:58:58 <Hetairie> poisonning open country, but when poison is out, i kill all people in my house.
2228 2011-07-02 14:58:59 <zamgo> fun with /ignore
2229 2011-07-02 14:59:08 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2230 2011-07-02 14:59:10 <Hetairie> 36 espece d'a nus
2231 2011-07-02 14:59:15 <Leo_II> luke-jr: no worries, I know thee is failover but cases like 40% invalid blocks is nothing i can prevent with automated failover.
2232 2011-07-02 14:59:26 <Hetairie> 36 ans que je suis en prison ici bande d'enculé de merde
2233 2011-07-02 14:59:36 <xtalmath> zamgo: tried that but then dsockwell started piping the info thru nevertheless
2234 2011-07-02 14:59:39 Insti has joined
2235 2011-07-02 14:59:49 <zamgo> bummer
2236 2011-07-02 14:59:58 <luke-jr> Leo_II: your risk of invalid blocks is greater solo mining
2237 2011-07-02 15:00:09 <luke-jr> and not 40% in either case
2238 2011-07-02 15:00:23 <Leo_II> pool is a single point of failure and not getting work from there is one way to fail. how many % account for other ways to fail?
2239 2011-07-02 15:00:40 <Hetairie> USA is a shit country who speak a fucking no precise language and make lot mystake because that.
2240 2011-07-02 15:00:43 <luke-jr> Leo_II: pool is only a single point of failure if you make it one
2241 2011-07-02 15:00:45 <xtalmath> lets discuss how to get rid of Hetairie in #hetairie
2242 2011-07-02 15:00:56 <Joric> sajoin?
2243 2011-07-02 15:00:58 <luke-jr> no, Hetairie is right
2244 2011-07-02 15:01:05 <Leo_II> luke-jr: i don't know much about eligius. it's just my brother who was slightly pissed to see 4/10 blocks in a row being invalid at some point
2245 2011-07-02 15:01:27 <Hetairie> the president of USA is a black hackers ahahah him take all your money with play with your love... ahahaha
2246 2011-07-02 15:01:34 Shuddertrix has joined
2247 2011-07-02 15:01:44 <luke-jr> Leo_II: random works like that
2248 2011-07-02 15:01:53 <luke-jr> although in that case, there was some reporting issues
2249 2011-07-02 15:02:10 <luke-jr> small sample size = no statistical use
2250 2011-07-02 15:02:23 <Leo_II> i know the maths.
2251 2011-07-02 15:02:36 <Joric> Hetairie, belgian queen is fat
2252 2011-07-02 15:02:55 <Hetairie> Joric the king and the queen in belgium it's not the true king.
2253 2011-07-02 15:03:09 <luke-jr> Leo_II: so you're intentionally trolling?
2254 2011-07-02 15:03:11 <Hetairie> i say again, belgium country are hacked by trojan and hacker.
2255 2011-07-02 15:03:18 <Leo_II> anyway ... pools have no chance to outperform solo mining just due to long polling 2% speed bonus.
2256 2011-07-02 15:04:13 <gmaxwell> Leo_II: it's pretty trivial to have long polling solo, and it's not a 2% speed bonus by far, at least not if you set your askrate to 1.
2257 2011-07-02 15:04:18 <Leo_II> luke-jr: no, i'm not intentionally trolling. you are if you still insist that pools in general are superior to solo mining just based on these 2% while your own pool is down.
2258 2011-07-02 15:04:31 <Hetairie> belgium are listen by e cop, all transaction in belgium are recorded.
2259 2011-07-02 15:04:52 <xtalmath> Hetairie: thats why cryptography can help you out
2260 2011-07-02 15:05:03 <Joric> tor aswell
2261 2011-07-02 15:05:04 <Namegduf> Hetairie: Belgium is a kind of chocolate, right?
2262 2011-07-02 15:05:14 <luke-jr> Leo_II: you just admitted to making conclusions based on what you knew was useless statistical samples
2263 2011-07-02 15:05:14 <Leo_II> gmaxwell: i have no problem accepting luke-jr's 2% claim as it is easily outperformed by other mechanisms like pools going down.
2264 2011-07-02 15:05:22 <Hetairie> no because in reality, in 1 second all project of bitoin is finish.
2265 2011-07-02 15:05:28 <luke-jr> Leo_II: pools going down doesn't hurt performance
2266 2011-07-02 15:05:32 <Hetairie> you don't know my power.
2267 2011-07-02 15:05:37 <Namegduf> Hetairie: Your hovercraft is full of eels
2268 2011-07-02 15:05:48 <dsockwell> is that a blessing or a curse?
2269 2011-07-02 15:05:49 caedes has joined
2270 2011-07-02 15:05:50 caedes has quit (Changing host)
2271 2011-07-02 15:05:50 caedes has joined
2272 2011-07-02 15:05:53 <xtalmath> Hetairie: so now you claim you found a vulnerability in the bitcoin protocol?
2273 2011-07-02 15:05:55 <xelister> Hetairie: if you are interested in crypto and privacy, did you seen #btcfn ?  Transporting bitcoin data securly over freeNET, Tor, i2p etc ;)
2274 2011-07-02 15:06:05 <Hetairie> now bitcoin miner existing because me no work realy for that
2275 2011-07-02 15:06:21 <gmaxwell> Hetairie: Mijn luchtkussenboot zit vol paling.
2276 2011-07-02 15:06:24 <Hetairie> if i work realy for miner, 1 sec for found all block
2277 2011-07-02 15:06:25 <Namegduf> He's trolling, except he doesn't know English so it's kind of sad.
2278 2011-07-02 15:06:26 <knotwork> if another node connects to you but you cannot connect to it because it has no incoming ports, can you both get the blockchain from each other or is the firewalled one stuck with your chain unable to give you its chain?
2279 2011-07-02 15:06:29 <Leo_II> luke-jr: up in the log you might find others claiming that you had trouble getting the client right what resulted in invalid blocks. although it is statistically possible to get 100 invalid blocks in a row, it is unlikely
2280 2011-07-02 15:06:44 <luke-jr> nonsense
2281 2011-07-02 15:06:45 zapnap has joined
2282 2011-07-02 15:07:01 <Hetairie> it's no a nonsense, but you no understand supercomputer.
2283 2011-07-02 15:07:16 <gmaxwell> Hetairie: Then who was microprocessor?
2284 2011-07-02 15:07:16 <Hetairie> with supercomputer, all block found in 1 sec.
2285 2011-07-02 15:07:18 MartianW has joined
2286 2011-07-02 15:07:19 MartianW has quit (Changing host)
2287 2011-07-02 15:07:19 MartianW has joined
2288 2011-07-02 15:07:21 <xtalmath> Hetairie: full of shit
2289 2011-07-02 15:07:25 <Namegduf> Hetairie: U moeder is zo dik da elke bilhelft een eigen postcode heeft.
2290 2011-07-02 15:07:31 <Hetairie> xtalmath... you dont belive me?
2291 2011-07-02 15:07:33 <gmaxwell> xtalmath: Why are you responding?
2292 2011-07-02 15:07:35 <Hetairie> you idiot or what?
2293 2011-07-02 15:07:53 <Namegduf> No, I don't think anyone is taking you remotely seriously, Hetairie.
2294 2011-07-02 15:08:16 MartianW has quit (Client Quit)
2295 2011-07-02 15:08:20 <Hetairie> if i activate my network here, all block bitcoin is for me and you go in a jail because me have take all.
2296 2011-07-02 15:08:22 <xtalmath> gmaxwell: because its the closest bitcoin related claim/statement he makes?
2297 2011-07-02 15:08:38 <Hetairie> in the begin i am cool.
2298 2011-07-02 15:08:42 <gmaxwell> xtalmath: Okay, that excuses that one...
2299 2011-07-02 15:08:46 <Namegduf> No, no you aren't.
2300 2011-07-02 15:08:53 <Hetairie> but if you place me in a jail, i activate my power.
2301 2011-07-02 15:08:57 <nus> heh, yeah, ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US
2302 2011-07-02 15:09:12 <Namegduf> Hetairie: You have no chance to survive, make your time.
2303 2011-07-02 15:09:17 <xtalmath> Hetairie: tell us how you will find "all blocks in one second"?
2304 2011-07-02 15:09:20 <gmaxwell> Move zig for great power.
2305 2011-07-02 15:09:32 <Leo_II> luke-jr: so if that is nonsense (did you talk to me?) what are the odds to get an invalid block in general? is that roughly the odds to generate a block within the same second/10s/minute as another one was created? so what's the odds to hit that time interval 4/10 times?
2306 2011-07-02 15:09:35 <Hetairie> xtalmath, with a supercalculator.
2307 2011-07-02 15:09:42 Gonzago has joined
2308 2011-07-02 15:09:44 <b4epoche_> lrn2/ignore
2309 2011-07-02 15:09:44 <MrSam> luke-jr: ?
2310 2011-07-02 15:09:53 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2311 2011-07-02 15:09:58 <Hetairie> how you think you need power for terminate to found all block?
2312 2011-07-02 15:09:59 <Namegduf> I already have three supercalculators
2313 2011-07-02 15:09:59 <Leo_II> how long does it take for a block to propagate worldwide?
2314 2011-07-02 15:10:05 <xtalmath> Hetairie: the current bitcoin network is a "supercalculator" doing just that
2315 2011-07-02 15:10:11 <gmaxwell> xtalmath: just stop
2316 2011-07-02 15:10:14 <xtalmath> ok
2317 2011-07-02 15:10:37 <Hetairie> xtalmath... no no, GPU graphic carde is a fucking trap for people pay energy.
2318 2011-07-02 15:10:46 <Hetairie> 300Mhash/s cost 280watt power
2319 2011-07-02 15:11:00 <Joric> Leo_II, i don't get you, what solo mining? http://bitcoinwatch.com - "other" is 5%, tops
2320 2011-07-02 15:11:17 <Namegduf> You know, I don't understand how someone this stupid could actually know all this about bitcoin.
2321 2011-07-02 15:11:22 <Namegduf> They can read, but not write English?
2322 2011-07-02 15:11:23 <Hetairie> realy litle cpu with only 4 watt generate 100mhash...  only 80Mhz processor...
2323 2011-07-02 15:11:40 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: victory
2324 2011-07-02 15:12:06 <Hetairie> do you know play with me? i finish directly all block. and you miner finish because all block found.
2325 2011-07-02 15:12:16 <Hetairie> i accept no user super calculator because i am cool
2326 2011-07-02 15:12:17 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2327 2011-07-02 15:12:21 <Namegduf> You can't because I already found them all first.
2328 2011-07-02 15:12:31 <Hetairie> but joke with me and you know what is the power of my computer.
2329 2011-07-02 15:12:40 gjs278 has joined
2330 2011-07-02 15:12:48 <dsockwell> selling bitcoin rainbow tables, $400,000
2331 2011-07-02 15:12:51 <Namegduf> I'm not joking with you, I'm joking at you.
2332 2011-07-02 15:12:51 phungus has quit (Quit: leaving)
2333 2011-07-02 15:12:54 <dsockwell> includes $200k storage array
2334 2011-07-02 15:13:08 xelister has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2335 2011-07-02 15:13:10 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: I like cheese.
2336 2011-07-02 15:13:20 <b4epoche_> Namegduf:  my experience:  stupid people often have no job and a lot of free time, they use the free time to try to figure out how to get rich quick, bitcoin (to a stupid person) looks like a candidate
2337 2011-07-02 15:13:36 rich has joined
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2340 2011-07-02 15:13:56 <Namegduf> b4epoche_: That would make sense.
2341 2011-07-02 15:14:02 <Namegduf> I'm not sure what this guy's endgame plan is.
2342 2011-07-02 15:14:06 <rethaw> b4epoche: thats ok when they have money to begin with
2343 2011-07-02 15:14:19 <Namegduf> Is he trying to get people to give him BTC or just trying to sound big and failing miserably?
2344 2011-07-02 15:14:19 <Leo_II> luke-jr: i would assume (please give better numbers) it takes 20s. so if i find a block within that 20s out of 10 minutes, i most likely fail to validate. that is 20/600=1/30. so i would expect to see 3% invalid blocks and the magnitude should be right. hitting those 3% 4/10 times is super unlikely.
2345 2011-07-02 15:14:35 <Hetairie> xtalmath alors tu me crois maintenant?
2346 2011-07-02 15:14:56 <b4epoche_> I have no idea what he's doing, he got /ignored after his third comment
2347 2011-07-02 15:15:21 jondoe has joined
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2349 2011-07-02 15:15:40 <b4epoche_> last thing I saw:  [09:12:24] <Hetairie> you understand devel?
2350 2011-07-02 15:15:43 <Namegduf> Wow, this list of Flemish insults is awesome.
2351 2011-07-02 15:16:07 <b4epoche_> wow...  2 hours and people are still listening to him?
2352 2011-07-02 15:16:13 <Leo_II> Joric: pardon? I'm arguing with luke-jr about the term "profitable" for solo mining vs. pool mining. he insists that pool mining is more profitable and we had an edit war in the wiki about it here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_pooled_mining
2353 2011-07-02 15:16:23 lianj has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2354 2011-07-02 15:16:32 <knotwork> if another node connects to you but you cannot connect to it because it has no incoming ports, can you both get the blockchain from each other or is the firewalled one stuck with your chain unable to give you its chain?
2355 2011-07-02 15:16:36 <Hetairie> flemish is a trojan people who try to take power in belgium with poisonning people.
2356 2011-07-02 15:17:11 <Namegduf> Your mother's Flemish.
2357 2011-07-02 15:17:18 lianj has joined
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2359 2011-07-02 15:17:19 lianj has joined
2360 2011-07-02 15:17:21 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: do not feed.
2361 2011-07-02 15:17:21 <Hetairie> i kill my mother
2362 2011-07-02 15:17:35 <Hetairie> my mother is a bitch
2363 2011-07-02 15:17:42 <Leo_II> feed? :)
2364 2011-07-02 15:17:44 <Hetairie> and me an sun of a bitch
2365 2011-07-02 15:17:51 <Hetairie> this is true
2366 2011-07-02 15:17:53 <Namegduf> Both literally and metaphorically.
2367 2011-07-02 15:17:58 <Titeuf_87> knotwork, sockets communicate in two directions. If another node conencts to you he will be able to get the full blockchain from you
2368 2011-07-02 15:18:05 <Namegduf> gmaxwell: Aw, okay.
2369 2011-07-02 15:18:24 <knotwork> thanks! was worried about starting chains for people then them not actually getting them from me due to my firewall
2370 2011-07-02 15:18:30 <Joric> Leo_II, mtred doesn't take fee, does it make it at least equally profitable? )
2371 2011-07-02 15:18:32 * Leo_II slaps Hetairie around a bit with a large trout (sorry if this is not the exact mirc wording. i'm not on mirc right now)
2372 2011-07-02 15:18:56 zamgo has left ()
2373 2011-07-02 15:19:11 <Joric> i don't mention risks even
2374 2011-07-02 15:19:32 Insti has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2375 2011-07-02 15:19:44 * Hetairie attrape Leo_II et le viole
2376 2011-07-02 15:20:00 <Leo_II> Joric: I could live with equally profitable but i have a problem with a pool owner insisting in pools being more profitable than solo mining in the wiki. this is plain misleading. the "only" service pools should be able to provide is flattening out the earnings.
2377 2011-07-02 15:20:41 <gmaxwell> Leo_II: well, thats not completely true. For example, the pool may operate bitcoind more competently than you do.
2378 2011-07-02 15:20:57 <Joric> whoa some serious math there
2379 2011-07-02 15:21:07 <gmaxwell> (this is important esp. because stock bitcoind is not up to the task of high speed mining)
2380 2011-07-02 15:21:30 <Leo_II> gmaxwell: ok, a pool might also assist in setting up your stuff. it also can tell you about good and bad shares. solo you never know if you don't find a block due to missconfig.
2381 2011-07-02 15:21:40 <Joric> hail to pure theoretical math
2382 2011-07-02 15:22:03 m00p has joined
2383 2011-07-02 15:22:04 <gmaxwell> Leo_II: well you should mine on testnet to be sure, but right, people don't bother trying.
2384 2011-07-02 15:22:12 * b4epoche_ is looking at pooled mining page:  where did "So we're looking at a base probability of 0.00342634853731." come from?
2385 2011-07-02 15:22:19 <luke-jr> Leo_II: it can take minutes for blocks to traverse the network
2386 2011-07-02 15:22:29 <btcrowan> Also, in a pool you are getting ~your average earnings throughout a difficulty, whereas in solo you may not find a block for a couple difficulty changes, to the point where your chances of finding a block approach zero
2387 2011-07-02 15:22:32 <luke-jr> Leo_II: and again, it is the same whether pool or solo
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2389 2011-07-02 15:22:44 <luke-jr> Leo_II: except that pools are more likely to have better connectivity
2390 2011-07-02 15:22:51 <Leo_II> hmmm ... good point. we decided to mine on a pool to at least see our setup that's running (more or less) since three weeks is working ;)
2391 2011-07-02 15:23:02 huk has joined
2392 2011-07-02 15:23:10 <gmaxwell> btcrowan: the difficulty changes don't impact the _expected_ (average) return.
2393 2011-07-02 15:23:35 Insti has joined
2394 2011-07-02 15:24:15 <gmaxwell> btcrowan: Each share now has 50/d expected value, pool or not (-pool fees;±reliablity). When the difficulty changes it will change for everyone at once, pool and no.
2395 2011-07-02 15:24:24 <btcrowan> True, but it does represent your chances of ever seeing that continually diminishing
2396 2011-07-02 15:24:53 <gmaxwell> btcrowan: right, but thats a variance differences, not an expected return difference.
2397 2011-07-02 15:25:04 <gmaxwell> And yes, pooling improves variance.
2398 2011-07-02 15:25:16 <Leo_II> thanx gmaxwell :)
2399 2011-07-02 15:25:26 <Joric> shortened that string to nMaxHeight = max(nBestHeight, max(nMaxHeight, pfrom->nStartingHeight));
2400 2011-07-02 15:26:08 <Joric> why client is so huge and why the hell did you use boost ? ) 90 megs unstripped
2401 2011-07-02 15:26:16 <btcrowan> if you are using practical rather than theoretical to infinity expected returns, then a pool is more profitable probably at ~20days expected generation time at current difficulty if not sooner
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2403 2011-07-02 15:26:44 <gmaxwell> ITSM a lot of people seem to misunderstand variance as meeaning "you'll eventually catch up" but thats not so, it means that if there were $large_number of you, and you averaged their earnings then it would equal the expectation.
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2407 2011-07-02 15:27:01 <gmaxwell> btcrowan: no. it is not "more profitable probably".
2408 2011-07-02 15:27:50 <btcrowan> sorry, poor word choice, the average earnings will be higher
2409 2011-07-02 15:27:58 <gmaxwell> The "omg what if you get no blocks" is counterbalanced by "omg I just got 5 in one day!".
2410 2011-07-02 15:28:03 <gmaxwell> btcrowan: they will not be.
2411 2011-07-02 15:29:07 <btcrowan> limit(your life time)
2412 2011-07-02 15:29:11 <gmaxwell> They have a lower chance of earning you very little, and a matching lower chance of earning you very much. But the _average_ is the same (±reliability, fees, competent operation, etc)
2413 2011-07-02 15:29:43 <gmaxwell> No, no limit involved. Imagine that all mining stops 2016 blocks from now. The _average_ earnings will not favor the pool.
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2415 2011-07-02 15:30:28 <Joric> could anyone explain how mybitcoin.com accepts payments (via merchant service) so fast without waiting 10 minutes for the next block? can it be fooled by the modified client?
2416 2011-07-02 15:30:58 <btcrowan> I just saw this nonesense being discussed and couldn't help but weigh in.  I am reasonably sure I understand what you're saying, and I agree in the case of extensions to the infinite, but in a practical model I disagree.  Now I must actually do some work., later y'all
2417 2011-07-02 15:31:02 <gmaxwell> If you were to take two million btcrowans, and half mined solo and half pooled (with zero fees and equal reliablity) then the average of each half would be approximately the same when hypothetical bitcoin ended in 2016 blocks.
2418 2011-07-02 15:31:36 <b4epoche_> whoever wrote the top half of https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_pooled_mining is missing something...  not sure what it is yet, but there's something wrong there
2419 2011-07-02 15:31:39 <btcrowan> P.S.  Oh MY God:  Someone's wrong on the internet!
2420 2011-07-02 15:31:53 <gmaxwell> btcrowan: Sadly, it's you. :-/
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2423 2011-07-02 15:32:11 <gmaxwell> b4epoche_: yea, that page is incorrect.
2424 2011-07-02 15:32:25 <gmaxwell> The expected value is the same even on finite time scales.
2425 2011-07-02 15:32:30 <Namegduf> While some people will, with a limit, find they get unlucky and don't get any blocks, others will get an above average number of blocks.
2426 2011-07-02 15:32:38 <Namegduf> Higher variability doesn't mean a lower average.
2427 2011-07-02 15:32:44 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: ding ding.
2428 2011-07-02 15:33:00 <Namegduf> Very short term, look at a day.
2429 2011-07-02 15:33:25 * b4epoche_ hates statistics but loves statistical mechanics
2430 2011-07-02 15:33:27 <Namegduf> You might get, say, 0.2 BTC on a pool, average.
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2432 2011-07-02 15:33:35 <Namegduf> And are likely to get quite close to that.
2433 2011-07-02 15:33:43 <Namegduf> (Assuming a large enough pool)
2434 2011-07-02 15:33:46 <gmaxwell> Now, you might find "above average" worthless, and "none" to be really bad... in which case, yes, pools will make you happier. Duh. thats why people use them _in spite_ of their typical cost to the average. But that doesn't mean pools improve the average.
2435 2011-07-02 15:34:11 <Namegduf> If you don't use a pool, you have very high odds of getting none at all.
2436 2011-07-02 15:34:16 <Leo_II> b4epoche_: thanx dude. that was where i threw in a {{delete}} and was forced to do the lower part due to a stupid edit war. I love wiki as it forces people to bring up results ;)
2437 2011-07-02 15:34:46 <Namegduf> But you have a small chance of getting a full block. And a miniscule chance of getting more than one.
2438 2011-07-02 15:35:01 <Namegduf> Because getting a full block pays so MUCH, the average works out the same.
2439 2011-07-02 15:35:18 <Namegduf> Nothing really tricky about it all.
2440 2011-07-02 15:35:37 <b4epoche_> Namegduf:  I think people would understand it better if winning was easier and payout was smaller
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2446 2011-07-02 15:37:32 <iz> b4epoche_: that's what pools do
2447 2011-07-02 15:37:46 <sacarlson> b4epoche: well than you should know the less you invest the less you can make
2448 2011-07-02 15:37:50 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: ping
2449 2011-07-02 15:38:04 xelister has joined
2450 2011-07-02 15:38:14 <b4epoche_> I'm just saying people might understand things better
2451 2011-07-02 15:38:16 <Joric> for me solo mining is basically the same as never
2452 2011-07-02 15:39:00 <Joric> btw can i reuse collected hashes if i'm switching from solo to a pool
2453 2011-07-02 15:39:01 <sacarlson> b4epoche: draw them an estimated graph is all we can do
2454 2011-07-02 15:39:50 <b4epoche_> I don't mean understand mathematically, I mean understand intuitively
2455 2011-07-02 15:40:41 rich has quit (Quit: rich)
2456 2011-07-02 15:40:49 <sacarlson> b4epoche: I guess that's why I'm not a good teacher I can't find a way to teach everyone
2457 2011-07-02 15:41:25 <b4epoche_> probability is a hard thing to understand intuitively (for the vast majority of people, including me)
2458 2011-07-02 15:42:07 <b4epoche_> hmm, maybe I should try to teach a statistical mechanics class to force myself to understand it better
2459 2011-07-02 15:42:15 <iz> that's how casios stay in business
2460 2011-07-02 15:42:31 <iz> casinos
2461 2011-07-02 15:42:38 <b4epoche_> and lotteries...
2462 2011-07-02 15:42:43 <iz> yeah
2463 2011-07-02 15:42:56 <sacarlson> b4epoche: iz: and insurance companies
2464 2011-07-02 15:43:02 <iz> heh, yeah
2465 2011-07-02 15:43:17 <b4epoche_> it's funny how lotteries are characterised by a tax on poor people
2466 2011-07-02 15:43:25 <b4epoche_> it's really more of a tax on stupid people
2467 2011-07-02 15:43:31 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: ping
2468 2011-07-02 15:43:42 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I think you mean pong...
2469 2011-07-02 15:44:10 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: do you have any comments on the address book fix pull wrt any testing that might have been done indirectly when you were testing it + wallet crypto?
2470 2011-07-02 15:44:18 <BlueMatt> or directly
2471 2011-07-02 15:44:51 <b4epoche_> sacarlson:  I view insurance companies a little differently...
2472 2011-07-02 15:44:52 <sacarlson> anyone every get bitcoin-qt to compile on a ubuntu 10.04 or similar?
2473 2011-07-02 15:45:52 <BlueMatt> does the guy who wrote bitcoin-qt ever get on here?
2474 2011-07-02 15:46:17 <sacarlson> BlueMatt I don't know I just started to play with it
2475 2011-07-02 15:46:42 <BlueMatt> dont think Ive ever seen him, I was just hoping
2476 2011-07-02 15:47:09 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: when I find him I'll tell him your looking for him
2477 2011-07-02 15:47:27 <BlueMatt> well I can always respond on the mailing list...
2478 2011-07-02 15:47:37 lianj has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2479 2011-07-02 15:48:02 <BlueMatt> I was just thinking maybe he would be able to do a makefile hack for qt to get merged now until someone has time to get autotools to work
2480 2011-07-02 15:48:02 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: did anyone fix the not starting stuff?
2481 2011-07-02 15:48:13 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I think he did
2482 2011-07-02 15:48:14 <b4epoche_> what's the feeling about me adding a bunch of stuff to the CocoaBitcoin UI that's not in the wx/qt one?
2483 2011-07-02 15:48:21 lianj has joined
2484 2011-07-02 15:48:34 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: I would prefer that happens after a pull request...
2485 2011-07-02 15:48:54 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2486 2011-07-02 15:49:06 <b4epoche_> what exactly is a 'pull request'?  what is that telling others?
2487 2011-07-02 15:49:29 <BlueMatt> it means you think it is ready to get merged upstream and you request for it to be pulled
2488 2011-07-02 15:49:40 <BlueMatt> (by clicking pull reqeust on github)
2489 2011-07-02 15:50:12 <BlueMatt> though jgarzik indicated that he would very much like to at least find out why you are importing some kind of SATA? related headers which defined CDB
2490 2011-07-02 15:50:49 <b4epoche_> so, I should request that my latest commit by merged upstream?
2491 2011-07-02 15:51:10 <sacarlson> I assume at some point we can have a selection of qtX libs or WX libs and others to drive bitcoin as I've seen with most other programs of this type,  I have no interest in supporting gui stuf
2492 2011-07-02 15:51:13 [Tycho] has quit (Changing host)
2493 2011-07-02 15:51:13 [Tycho] has joined
2494 2011-07-02 15:51:13 <BlueMatt> well the current version isnt in your github
2495 2011-07-02 15:51:38 rich has joined
2496 2011-07-02 15:51:45 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: what?
2497 2011-07-02 15:52:12 <xtalmath> warning: after telling him to stop the foreplay and show me the proof that he found a security flaw in bitcoin, Hetaire announced that in a few moments he will shut bitcoin down
2498 2011-07-02 15:52:23 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  yea, it's SCSI...  I can't remember the detailed header call path but somehow Foundation.h (which essentially all cocoa apps need) winds up referencing a header with some SCSI stuff in it
2499 2011-07-02 15:52:28 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: also, it would be requested that you give up all copyright and mark it as (c) Bitcoin Developers
2500 2011-07-02 15:52:30 kika has joined
2501 2011-07-02 15:52:35 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: I guess we don't need a connection to gui and the workings of bitcoin
2502 2011-07-02 15:52:49 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: well yea, that needs to hapen asap
2503 2011-07-02 15:53:09 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: ok good to hear
2504 2011-07-02 15:53:33 <b4epoche_> "The IOCDBCommandInterface, which provides functions that create and execute CDB (command descriptor block) commands"
2505 2011-07-02 15:53:35 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: it got a *ton* better with sipa's CWallet, but more needs to happen
2506 2011-07-02 15:53:56 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: ok, so where are you including that is the real question, and can it be fixed?
2507 2011-07-02 15:54:31 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  it's an OS thing...
2508 2011-07-02 15:55:01 <BlueMatt> b4epoche: yes, but does it have to be included is the question?
2509 2011-07-02 15:55:05 <BlueMatt> ie what file is it in?
2510 2011-07-02 15:57:01 <b4epoche_> I could customize my core headers (like messing with stuff in X11 headers on Unix)
2511 2011-07-02 15:57:47 <b4epoche_> it's part of the OSServices.framework on OSX
2512 2011-07-02 15:57:50 <BlueMatt> what file is it getting included in from the list of ones you are including is the question
2513 2011-07-02 15:58:06 <b4epoche_> Foundation.h
2514 2011-07-02 15:58:13 kon is now known as Kothar
2515 2011-07-02 15:58:24 <BlueMatt> and let me guess, you absolutely have to have Foundation.h to do most anything?
2516 2011-07-02 15:58:25 <b4epoche_> but not directly from Foundation.h
2517 2011-07-02 15:58:28 <Joric> who's running bitcoinstats.com? great domain name but poor content
2518 2011-07-02 15:58:42 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  it's not called Foundation.h for nothing ;-)
2519 2011-07-02 15:58:43 <BlueMatt> cdecker is
2520 2011-07-02 15:58:46 <BlueMatt> Joric: cdecker|awy
2521 2011-07-02 15:58:59 <Joric> i'd place all possible charts there )
2522 2011-07-02 15:59:11 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: well as long as there is no way around it, I dont think jgarzik will object, just wanted to make sure there isnt an easy way to fix that
2523 2011-07-02 15:59:29 <BlueMatt> Joric: iirc he doesnt do too much with bitcoin any more
2524 2011-07-02 15:59:45 <b4epoche_> there's an easy way to fix /for me/...  but if you want it to be compilable for other people, then no
2525 2011-07-02 15:59:55 <BlueMatt> and that is?
2526 2011-07-02 16:00:13 <b4epoche_> that is changing me core OS headers
2527 2011-07-02 16:00:19 <b4epoche_> s/me/my
2528 2011-07-02 16:00:21 <BlueMatt> oh, well then no
2529 2011-07-02 16:00:31 <BlueMatt> uh, ok so a couple things, can you commit and push the latest version?
2530 2011-07-02 16:01:00 <Joric> BlueMatt, who cares about irc, i mean market charts, hashrate distribution, etc
2531 2011-07-02 16:01:01 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 241000 1.30
2532 2011-07-02 16:01:02 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 241000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1.30, is 23 seconds
2533 2011-07-02 16:01:18 <b4epoche_> well, the latest version includes a bunch of new stuff
2534 2011-07-02 16:01:40 <BlueMatt> Joric: yep, but we have bitcoinwatch for that stuff, so...meh
2535 2011-07-02 16:01:45 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: ok, so push it?
2536 2011-07-02 16:02:02 <b4epoche_> but the latest version on github is what should get merged, I think
2537 2011-07-02 16:02:13 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: your current master is just the changes to the source code
2538 2011-07-02 16:02:19 DukeOfURL has joined
2539 2011-07-02 16:02:27 <b4epoche_> eh?
2540 2011-07-02 16:02:38 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/ericmock/bitcoin/tree/master/src
2541 2011-07-02 16:02:44 <BlueMatt> only your 0.3 branch has the cocoa stuff
2542 2011-07-02 16:02:57 <Joric> hows 0.4.0 going, any changelogs? :)
2543 2011-07-02 16:03:12 <BlueMatt> Joric: its going good, but 0.3.24 first
2544 2011-07-02 16:03:59 <b4epoche_> shit
2545 2011-07-02 16:04:41 <b4epoche_> doesn't git commit -a commit all stuff in the directory?
2546 2011-07-02 16:04:43 <Joric> i use heavily patched 0.3.23 currently http://i52.tinypic.com/b997oj.jpg
2547 2011-07-02 16:04:43 <xtalmath> and Hetairie claims hes the result of incest
2548 2011-07-02 16:05:09 <xtalmath> all the while, the network is up and running as before
2549 2011-07-02 16:05:24 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: you might have to git add ... first; also, you need to git push to get it on github
2550 2011-07-02 16:05:49 <b4epoche_> no, I've never not pushed after a commit
2551 2011-07-02 16:06:08 <BlueMatt> well then you probably need to git add src/cocoa or whatever
2552 2011-07-02 16:06:15 <b4epoche_> yea
2553 2011-07-02 16:11:01 <diki>  <Joric> i use heavily patched 0.3.23 currently http://i52.tinypic.com/b997oj.jpg<-ewww.so win98
2554 2011-07-02 16:13:47 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
2555 2011-07-02 16:14:40 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2556 2011-07-02 16:15:02 <Joric> 'send from address' shows tangled addresses that may be traced
2557 2011-07-02 16:15:56 Zarutian has joined
2558 2011-07-02 16:15:59 <Joric> and corresponding balances ("-" basically means 0)
2559 2011-07-02 16:16:27 <b4epoche_> @BlueMatt:  pushed
2560 2011-07-02 16:17:33 <BlueMatt> b4epoche: thanks, now I just have to get my osx vm updated and this crazy bootloader to work on the latest version so I can test and such
2561 2011-07-02 16:18:03 <Joric> does 0.3.24 provide wallet encryption?
2562 2011-07-02 16:18:08 <BlueMatt> no
2563 2011-07-02 16:18:16 <Joric> how so
2564 2011-07-02 16:18:18 osmosis has joined
2565 2011-07-02 16:18:29 <b4epoche_> how so no?
2566 2011-07-02 16:18:32 <BlueMatt> 0.3.24 is just a minor update to enable dnsseed and upnp by default and fix the send limits
2567 2011-07-02 16:18:49 <BlueMatt> which are resulting in problems getting the latest blocks
2568 2011-07-02 16:19:19 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  did you see that Apple allows (will allow) Lion (not Server) to be virtualized now?
2569 2011-07-02 16:19:39 <b4epoche_> it'll make things easier, instead of hacking around the previous locks
2570 2011-07-02 16:19:52 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: nice, not that I really care as Im virtualizing on a pc on linux which is against the rules anyway so...
2571 2011-07-02 16:20:16 <BlueMatt> but they still will require you to do it on mac hardware which means on vmware or parallels
2572 2011-07-02 16:20:32 <BlueMatt> running on linux still wont provide their weird chips which the os checks for before booting
2573 2011-07-02 16:20:55 <nus> which weird chips?
2574 2011-07-02 16:21:10 <BlueMatt> theres one specific one, but I cant remember its name atm...
2575 2011-07-02 16:21:24 <b4epoche_> wow, that goes back to the old Mac ROM
2576 2011-07-02 16:21:39 <b4epoche_> making a hackintosh isn't really too hard
2577 2011-07-02 16:21:53 <BlueMatt> nope, its really easy these days thanks to the intel switch
2578 2011-07-02 16:22:11 <BlueMatt> though I tried it once even before that via...oh god what was that ppc emulator called?
2579 2011-07-02 16:22:24 <BlueMatt> worked pretty well, but damn was it slow
2580 2011-07-02 16:22:40 <b4epoche_> whoa...  were you like 10 years old at the time?
2581 2011-07-02 16:22:46 <nus> BlueMatt, there're no TPM modules in apples
2582 2011-07-02 16:22:55 <BlueMatt> nus: no, its not a tpm
2583 2011-07-02 16:23:07 <BlueMatt> just some obscure chip that no one has in pcs
2584 2011-07-02 16:23:21 <nus> bullshit
2585 2011-07-02 16:23:26 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: uh...close, but not quite...
2586 2011-07-02 16:23:45 <BlueMatt> well all you really need for a hackintosh is efi instead of bios and...oh god whats it called
2587 2011-07-02 16:23:59 <Joric> b4epoche, tell me about it ) i made 12 iphone games without a mac and without the actual iphone
2588 2011-07-02 16:24:05 <shLONG> hey
2589 2011-07-02 16:24:09 <shLONG> wheres the bitcoin daemon repo
2590 2011-07-02 16:24:16 <b4epoche_> what games joric?
2591 2011-07-02 16:24:22 larsivi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2592 2011-07-02 16:24:26 <BlueMatt> shLONG: in the same place as the main one, just do make -f makefile.* bitcoind
2593 2011-07-02 16:24:35 <Joric> didn't make a fortune though with all it was nothing but a great financial loss
2594 2011-07-02 16:24:52 <b4epoche_> Joric:  that's been my AppStore experience too
2595 2011-07-02 16:24:55 <Joric> b4epoche_, crappy ones
2596 2011-07-02 16:25:18 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2597 2011-07-02 16:25:44 <Joric> spend most time writting engines as always
2598 2011-07-02 16:26:17 lianj has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2603 2011-07-02 16:27:09 <Joric> last one - http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/king-strike/id338512238?mt=8
2604 2011-07-02 16:27:20 <b4epoche_> I actually think my game is pretty good...  but swamped in the ocean
2605 2011-07-02 16:27:46 dbitcoin has joined
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2607 2011-07-02 16:28:25 <shLONG> i mean where the url
2608 2011-07-02 16:28:38 <shLONG> is it sourceforge, github?
2609 2011-07-02 16:28:45 <Joric> physics engine, gfx engine, enormous expences and $200 profit for 6 months
2610 2011-07-02 16:28:46 iamboxxy\yousee has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2611 2011-07-02 16:28:48 <BlueMatt> github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
2612 2011-07-02 16:28:51 TheAncientGoat has joined
2613 2011-07-02 16:28:54 <shLONG> ty
2614 2011-07-02 16:29:04 copumpkin has joined
2615 2011-07-02 16:29:08 <shLONG> $200 is nothing O_O
2616 2011-07-02 16:29:10 <shLONG> wtf
2617 2011-07-02 16:29:11 <b4epoche_> Joric:  http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/polywords-with-pals-deluxe/id387603186?mt=8
2618 2011-07-02 16:29:17 <shLONG> for 6 months?!
2619 2011-07-02 16:30:10 <b4epoche_> I wrote my own 'physics engine' too...
2620 2011-07-02 16:30:18 <b4epoche_> used opengl for the rest
2621 2011-07-02 16:30:39 <b4epoche_> he's probably made more than me
2622 2011-07-02 16:30:49 <b4epoche_> I think I've paid more in dev fees than I've made
2623 2011-07-02 16:31:01 <Joric> i worked fulltime since 2008
2624 2011-07-02 16:31:04 wardearia has joined
2625 2011-07-02 16:31:12 <b4epoche_> but this isn't my source of income (thank god)
2626 2011-07-02 16:31:32 <b4epoche_> it's a hobby, and I wanted to learn ObjC/C/OpenGL/etc
2627 2011-07-02 16:31:46 rich has quit (Quit: rich)
2628 2011-07-02 16:32:20 <Joric> practically flushed my cs degree down the toilet
2629 2011-07-02 16:32:39 <b4epoche_> Joric:  you in US?
2630 2011-07-02 16:32:45 <Joric> ru
2631 2011-07-02 16:34:06 <Joric> it's hopeless to compete with hindu in freelancing they smarter, work better and eat less :)
2632 2011-07-02 16:35:33 <b4epoche_> you made the games for others?
2633 2011-07-02 16:35:43 <shLONG> guys
2634 2011-07-02 16:35:43 <shLONG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUH0JpLWKuI
2635 2011-07-02 16:35:48 <shLONG> this is he funniest video ever
2636 2011-07-02 16:37:34 <Joric> b4epoche, fee contracts mostly, 30 to 60%
2637 2011-07-02 16:37:39 rafsoaken1 has joined
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2644 2011-07-02 16:39:24 <rafsoaken1> is there already a viable TAN solution to bitcoin ?
2645 2011-07-02 16:39:47 <rafsoaken1> and is this the right place to ask? (sorry if im rude)
2646 2011-07-02 16:40:05 <BlueMatt> how the hell would you do a tan?
2647 2011-07-02 16:40:43 <BlueMatt> you could implement it in software, but doing that securely...the only reason tans work is because both ends have them, there is only one side in bitcoin
2648 2011-07-02 16:40:47 <Burgundy> all the heat can get you a tan I guess.
2649 2011-07-02 16:41:03 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2650 2011-07-02 16:41:12 <BlueMatt> I believe that would be the sun, not the heat
2651 2011-07-02 16:42:17 <Burgundy> not exactly the sun, as there's no sun in tan studios.
2652 2011-07-02 16:42:17 <kinlo> if I do a sendmany, am I going to pay less fee's then when I'm doing multiple sendfrom's?
2653 2011-07-02 16:42:28 <BlueMatt> quite possibly
2654 2011-07-02 16:42:40 <shLONG> right so the bitcoin source is filly portable?
2655 2011-07-02 16:42:45 <shLONG> fully*
2656 2011-07-02 16:42:50 <kinlo> I've just payed with the rpc interface, but it is createing 2 distinct transactions for the sendmany, which is not how I understood it would work
2657 2011-07-02 16:42:55 <shLONG> it juses java for the interface does it/
2658 2011-07-02 16:43:18 <BlueMatt> nus: ah found it, the thing that apple likes to check for is an "smc" see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Management_Controller
2659 2011-07-02 16:43:39 <Joric> shLONG, fascinating video
2660 2011-07-02 16:43:43 <BlueMatt> it does actual hardware control, and thus needs to be emulated for boot
2661 2011-07-02 16:43:54 <shLONG> Joric: indeed :P
2662 2011-07-02 16:44:11 TheAncientGoat has joined
2663 2011-07-02 16:44:32 <yorick> upb: permission to distribute bitcoinAddress as a node.js package?
2664 2011-07-02 16:45:10 <BlueMatt> shLONG: lineendings are unix so wont work on notepad
2665 2011-07-02 16:46:00 <BlueMatt> because no one codes for bitcoin in windows...
2666 2011-07-02 16:46:13 <rafsoaken1> @BlueMatt I'm thinking about TANs that only unlock say between 1 and 200 BTC in 5 BTC increments. So even if you start a transaction of 63BTC, only 65BTC are ever unlocked und trojans couldnt get to it
2667 2011-07-02 16:46:50 <rafsoaken1> no need to ever unlock you whole file
2668 2011-07-02 16:47:06 <BlueMatt> rafsoaken1: oh, well you could theoretically do that, you would have to do a ton of work though
2669 2011-07-02 16:47:29 <BlueMatt> as you would have to, every time you recieve btc, move them around so that you always have max 5 btc spendable per priv key
2670 2011-07-02 16:47:39 <rafsoaken1> true
2671 2011-07-02 16:47:49 <BlueMatt> then also have independent encryption keys on the privkeys, which is a real pain to do...
2672 2011-07-02 16:47:54 <rafsoaken1> thats the only annoyance i could find so far
2673 2011-07-02 16:47:58 <shLONG> @BlueMatt: lol I use notepad++ they will work fine
2674 2011-07-02 16:48:01 <BlueMatt> in any case, possible, but slightly ridiculous
2675 2011-07-02 16:48:06 <shLONG> @BlueMatt: and why do you assume I use windows
2676 2011-07-02 16:48:13 <Joric> satoshi obfuscates code with unix line endings! this is going right onto boing boing
2677 2011-07-02 16:48:21 <BlueMatt> shLONG: responding to that video
2678 2011-07-02 16:48:35 <shLONG> oh its not my video :P
2679 2011-07-02 16:48:38 <shLONG> just one I found
2680 2011-07-02 16:48:48 <BlueMatt> Joric: actually satoshi used win line endings, we switched them because all the devs use linux
2681 2011-07-02 16:48:49 <Hetairie> trojan in bitcoin?
2682 2011-07-02 16:48:50 danbri has joined
2683 2011-07-02 16:48:52 <BlueMatt> gavin did iirc
2684 2011-07-02 16:48:59 <BlueMatt> shLONG: I know
2685 2011-07-02 16:49:05 <shLONG> whats the preferred os for programming bitcoin? :P
2686 2011-07-02 16:49:10 <BlueMatt> Hetairie: no
2687 2011-07-02 16:49:13 <rafsoaken1> BlueMatt
2688 2011-07-02 16:49:16 <BlueMatt> shLONG: whatever you can get it to compile in
2689 2011-07-02 16:49:20 <BlueMatt> s/in/on/
2690 2011-07-02 16:49:27 <rafsoaken1> sry, just thx for your thought
2691 2011-07-02 16:50:02 <shLONG> so the interface is it java, and if so is the interface in this repo too?
2692 2011-07-02 16:50:15 <Hetairie> BlueMatt you have an shit in ascii arts a side your nick, it's normal?
2693 2011-07-02 16:50:25 <BlueMatt> shLONG: no, wx
2694 2011-07-02 16:50:42 <shLONG> and if im going to modify the bitcoin client, is it best I hook into the repo with SVN, what would be the suggested way to make "plugins" for it
2695 2011-07-02 16:50:49 <shLONG> wxwidgets cool
2696 2011-07-02 16:50:54 <BlueMatt> shLONG: its git
2697 2011-07-02 16:51:02 <shLONG> ah sorry :p
2698 2011-07-02 16:51:13 <BlueMatt> and yea git clone the repo, make yourself a fork on github
2699 2011-07-02 16:51:14 <shLONG> i have never used git ill get the client, whats the difference
2700 2011-07-02 16:51:17 <BlueMatt> and start coding
2701 2011-07-02 16:51:22 <BlueMatt> git is nice
2702 2011-07-02 16:51:36 <shLONG> but if I go hacking up the source, how will I keep it uptodate with the latest build?
2703 2011-07-02 16:51:56 <BlueMatt> git fetch upstream; git rebase -i upstream/master
2704 2011-07-02 16:52:12 <BlueMatt> or git pull upstream master
2705 2011-07-02 16:52:27 <BlueMatt> though rebase is better if you are targeting merge
2706 2011-07-02 16:52:31 <BlueMatt> into upstream
2707 2011-07-02 16:52:33 <shLONG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byi9aJZWKJo - LOL
2708 2011-07-02 16:53:11 <shLONG> @BlueMatt: how does that work :S
2709 2011-07-02 16:53:16 <BlueMatt> lol, that guy isnt even right
2710 2011-07-02 16:53:21 <BlueMatt> bitcoin isnt quite anonymous
2711 2011-07-02 16:53:39 <shLONG> lol
2712 2011-07-02 16:53:42 <shLONG> free of debt?
2713 2011-07-02 16:53:47 <BlueMatt> shLONG: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=4571.0
2714 2011-07-02 16:53:58 <BlueMatt> yea, free of debt doesnt make sense either
2715 2011-07-02 16:54:19 <Hetairie> shLONG video translate in french, what the guy say?
2716 2011-07-02 16:54:47 <Hetairie> how to go to jail with use bitcoin?
2717 2011-07-02 16:55:27 <nus> BlueMatt, SMCs are not unique (cf. IPMI/BMC), and, as you said, it's realatively easy to emulate them.
2718 2011-07-02 16:56:03 <BlueMatt> nus: yes, they are, but even a pc that might have something similar wont be the same as the apple one, and thus osx wont boot
2719 2011-07-02 16:56:10 <BlueMatt> so one has to emulate them
2720 2011-07-02 16:56:10 <upb> yorick: sure do whatever you want
2721 2011-07-02 16:56:18 <BlueMatt> ie you cant just boot osx as-is on a pc that supports efi
2722 2011-07-02 16:56:39 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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2725 2011-07-02 16:58:21 <nus> BlueMatt, I'm well aware (-:
2726 2011-07-02 16:58:22 <shLONG> Hetairie: i dont know french lol :S
2727 2011-07-02 16:58:29 <Hetairie> ok
2728 2011-07-02 16:58:55 Jkessler has quit (Changing host)
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2730 2011-07-02 16:59:02 <Hetairie> me no love english because is a fucking bot language.
2731 2011-07-02 16:59:56 Tim-7967 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2732 2011-07-02 16:59:56 <nus> BlueMatt, my point was that something TPM'ish wouldn't be as easy to simulate on the same scale... Anyway, now I see what you had in mind, talking 'bout "weird chips" (-:
2733 2011-07-02 17:00:10 <Hetairie> for idiot people, and all people are idiot, all speak english...
2734 2011-07-02 17:00:20 <BlueMatt> yea, I wasnt saying it was hard, just that you had to do something more than just efi
2735 2011-07-02 17:00:36 <nus> he is not fed yet?-)
2736 2011-07-02 17:01:11 <osmosis> shLONG, HAHA
2737 2011-07-02 17:01:23 <BlueMatt> Hetairie: please dont make such comments, its a broad generalization and should be kept to yourself
2738 2011-07-02 17:02:13 <copumpkin> Hetairie just has a simplistic worldview
2739 2011-07-02 17:02:14 <shLONG> LOL
2740 2011-07-02 17:02:20 <Namegduf> He's just a trolling moron
2741 2011-07-02 17:02:26 <Namegduf> Mock, don't appreciate
2742 2011-07-02 17:03:02 m00p has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2743 2011-07-02 17:03:47 <Hetairie> BlueMatt here it's not a free channel? i have make a mistake? is freenode or jailnode here?
2744 2011-07-02 17:03:57 Shuddertrix has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2745 2011-07-02 17:04:02 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  you moved to Frankfurt from NC?
2746 2011-07-02 17:04:07 janika has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
2747 2011-07-02 17:04:20 <BlueMatt> its a reasonable channel, not a "Im gonna go make fun of broad groups of people just for the hell of it"
2748 2011-07-02 17:04:21 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: yes
2749 2011-07-02 17:04:25 <copumpkin> Hetairie: channel operators are free to remove disruptive (or just dumb) people
2750 2011-07-02 17:04:43 <b4epoche_> that makes you suspiciously part of a 'banking' family ;-)
2751 2011-07-02 17:05:01 <BlueMatt> youd think so, but actually no
2752 2011-07-02 17:05:04 wardearia has joined
2753 2011-07-02 17:05:32 <Hetairie> copumpkin i accept who user flood, but if user say opinion, kick or ban is like chinese cencure...
2754 2011-07-02 17:05:54 Kothar is now known as kon
2755 2011-07-02 17:05:55 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
2756 2011-07-02 17:05:58 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134420 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 651 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1591224.63444355
2757 2011-07-02 17:06:04 <copumpkin> Hetairie: opinions aren't free
2758 2011-07-02 17:06:22 <BlueMatt> Hetairie: if "all people who speak english are stupid" is free speech to you, find a different channel that is more tolerating of that kind of crap
2759 2011-07-02 17:06:24 <copumpkin> you need to be able to justify them or they're just stupidity/prejudice
2760 2011-07-02 17:06:31 <Joric> Hetairie, are swiss similar to belgians? wife wants me to move to switzerland but i'm starting to doubt
2761 2011-07-02 17:06:40 <Hetairie> in a free and open channel, you need accept opinion of users.
2762 2011-07-02 17:06:59 <copumpkin> Hetairie: you're assuming a premise here (the "free and open channel") which is not 100% true
2763 2011-07-02 17:07:35 <shLONG> lol Hetairie I think your only still in this channel due to commical value
2764 2011-07-02 17:07:42 <shLONG> i wouldent push it
2765 2011-07-02 17:07:44 <copumpkin> probably :)
2766 2011-07-02 17:08:06 <copumpkin> I thought that was my role as the local haskell evangelist
2767 2011-07-02 17:08:15 <copumpkin> but sadly I've been outdone
2768 2011-07-02 17:08:20 iddo has joined
2769 2011-07-02 17:08:50 Tim-7967 has joined
2770 2011-07-02 17:08:50 Tim-7967 has quit (Changing host)
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2774 2011-07-02 17:10:10 <Hetairie> Joric swiss people not like belgian people, belgian people are high violate, colonisator no joke longtime in my country originaly closed and open by hack.
2775 2011-07-02 17:10:42 <b4epoche_> copumpkin:  how's the mining?
2776 2011-07-02 17:11:37 <copumpkin> b4epoche_: going well
2777 2011-07-02 17:12:18 <Hetairie> any solution for place good driver opencl for make more hash/s with 6950 amd card?
2778 2011-07-02 17:12:36 <Joric> copumpkin, how many mhashes?
2779 2011-07-02 17:12:42 <Hetairie> because i dont belive 3 millards transistors make only 292mhash/s
2780 2011-07-02 17:12:54 <copumpkin> Joric: just over 1400
2781 2011-07-02 17:13:05 <copumpkin> Hetairie: I get over 350 on those cards
2782 2011-07-02 17:13:23 <shLONG> so why is github more popular than sourceforge these days?
2783 2011-07-02 17:13:24 <Joric> hehe over 9000 would be definitely better
2784 2011-07-02 17:13:34 <Hetairie> i need good driver
2785 2011-07-02 17:13:42 iddo has left ()
2786 2011-07-02 17:14:05 <Hetairie> because little processor make with only 80Mhz 80mhash/s and use only 4 watt..
2787 2011-07-02 17:14:12 <nus> copumpkin, got any neophytes?-)
2788 2011-07-02 17:14:58 <copumpkin> :o
2789 2011-07-02 17:15:24 SISUbtcX has joined
2790 2011-07-02 17:15:54 <nus> Hetairie, you know of Haskell?
2791 2011-07-02 17:16:03 <Hetairie> it's problem with logical in AMD graffic card? or is a consomation trap?
2792 2011-07-02 17:16:05 <nus> (let's see where *that* goes)
2793 2011-07-02 17:16:10 <Hetairie> haskell?
2794 2011-07-02 17:16:10 <Hetairie> no
2795 2011-07-02 17:16:18 <Hetairie> it's a language?
2796 2011-07-02 17:16:46 <nus> Hetairie, yes, which you could be learning to your profit, instead of idly chatting here
2797 2011-07-02 17:17:22 <shLONG> if I create a bitcoin fork, is that also open source?
2798 2011-07-02 17:17:39 <jrmithdobbs> nus: lol
2799 2011-07-02 17:17:40 <shLONG> can other people see my changes without me needing to publish them or soemthing?
2800 2011-07-02 17:17:52 <jrmithdobbs> nus: turn the troll table to something productive. nice job ;p
2801 2011-07-02 17:17:54 <yorick> upb: http://sprunge.us/bQWK?diff for node.js, requires the bigint on npm. takes 2 ms instead of 25
2802 2011-07-02 17:17:58 <Joric> Hetairie, you need a haskell os to speed things up http://programatica.cs.pdx.edu/House/
2803 2011-07-02 17:18:17 <yorick> shLONG: only if you publish binary
2804 2011-07-02 17:18:29 <Hetairie> nus you try to fuck my brain with your langage? in 1 cycle of processor your langage haskell impossible to make +1 with 3 millards of transistor? LOL !
2805 2011-07-02 17:18:43 <jrmithdobbs> shLONG: you mean on github? yes, if you just click the fork button it publishes it publically by default
2806 2011-07-02 17:18:59 warpi has joined
2807 2011-07-02 17:19:21 <jrmithdobbs> also: fuck cmake
2808 2011-07-02 17:19:22 <jrmithdobbs> <3
2809 2011-07-02 17:19:33 <justmoon> yorick: node-bitcoin-p2p contains a native Node.js extension for base58 en/decode: https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/blob/master/native.cc
2810 2011-07-02 17:19:35 <knotwork> Fedora does not include in its openssl some stuff bitcoin needs
2811 2011-07-02 17:19:38 <Joric> i like cmake :(
2812 2011-07-02 17:19:55 <jrmithdobbs> additionally: fuck autotools ;p
2813 2011-07-02 17:19:55 <knotwork> also some of its libs are different
2814 2011-07-02 17:20:07 <Joric> what's wrong with cmake?
2815 2011-07-02 17:20:20 WildSoil has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2816 2011-07-02 17:20:23 <yorick> justmoon: that won't work in browser :)
2817 2011-07-02 17:20:24 <knotwork> if I change some stuff to make it compile on fedora, what would be best way to publisj that?
2818 2011-07-02 17:20:30 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: it's just another reinvention of the wheel
2819 2011-07-02 17:20:37 <knotwork> maybe a github fork containing only those changes?
2820 2011-07-02 17:20:46 SISUbtcX has left ()
2821 2011-07-02 17:20:48 <yorick> justmoon: neither will this, but the thing my changes are based on will
2822 2011-07-02 17:20:50 <justmoon> yorick: well your patch won't either o_O
2823 2011-07-02 17:20:53 <justmoon> kk
2824 2011-07-02 17:21:07 <knotwork> or is there some way already planned for determining platform at runtime and adjusting accordingly?
2825 2011-07-02 17:21:15 <Hetairie> what is the probleme of algorithme with grafic card amd 6950 ? it's not normal, normaly over 7Ghash/s with 6950 amd card...
2826 2011-07-02 17:21:31 <knotwork> (maybe just create a Makefile.Fedora15 to use instead of Makefile.unix ?)
2827 2011-07-02 17:21:33 <Joric> jrmithdobbs, what about wxWidgets? a weird choice for gpled software imo
2828 2011-07-02 17:21:41 <copumpkin> Hetairie: actually GHC is a very efficient compiler, and can produce code that's way faster than most high-level languages, and that even approaches low-level ones
2829 2011-07-02 17:21:42 <copumpkin> :)
2830 2011-07-02 17:21:46 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: i don't like wx either ;p
2831 2011-07-02 17:21:53 <Hetairie> 3 millards of transistor for only 300mhash/s lol ahahaha  AMD = MAD?  madoff trap? :-)
2832 2011-07-02 17:21:53 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: there's lots of stuff i don't like
2833 2011-07-02 17:21:57 <jrmithdobbs> heh
2834 2011-07-02 17:22:21 <Joric> do you like windows?
2835 2011-07-02 17:22:27 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: i don't like lowest common denominator ui toolkits in general
2836 2011-07-02 17:22:32 dbasch has joined
2837 2011-07-02 17:22:51 <Joric> because i just love windows
2838 2011-07-02 17:22:57 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: and X is an abomination
2839 2011-07-02 17:23:22 sabalaba has joined
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2841 2011-07-02 17:23:44 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: i don't own a windows license past nt4 (serious) and don't have any unlicensed versions running either
2842 2011-07-02 17:24:14 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2843 2011-07-02 17:24:15 zapnap has joined
2844 2011-07-02 17:24:19 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: but if my choice is a linux desktop or a windows desktop, i'd choose windows every time
2845 2011-07-02 17:24:43 <Hetairie> in ASM language, how much you need transistor for make -> mov dl,"X" ?
2846 2011-07-02 17:24:43 <Joric> high five
2847 2011-07-02 17:24:55 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: luckily that's a false choice ;p
2848 2011-07-02 17:26:26 <Joric> *rimshot*
2849 2011-07-02 17:27:04 <Hetairie> GUIminer is created by new devel? for what software no use correctly all transitor in the computer?
2850 2011-07-02 17:28:29 <Joric> you're using all the transistor you have
2851 2011-07-02 17:28:36 <Hetairie> no
2852 2011-07-02 17:28:52 <Hetairie> impossible to use over 3 milliards of transistor for make 1 operation
2853 2011-07-02 17:28:53 traviscj_ has joined
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2858 2011-07-02 17:30:01 Netsniper has joined
2859 2011-07-02 17:30:38 <Hetairie> i need explanation for understand what you hide in my computer
2860 2011-07-02 17:31:03 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2861 2011-07-02 17:31:04 <b4epoche_> jrmithdobbs:  what do you use personally?
2862 2011-07-02 17:31:11 <b4epoche_> for computing that is
2863 2011-07-02 17:31:39 zapnap has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2864 2011-07-02 17:31:40 <phrontist> Hetairie: yup, believe it or not pretty much all the transistors are "used" in every operation
2865 2011-07-02 17:32:16 erle- has joined
2866 2011-07-02 17:32:55 <Hetairie> phrontist it's not possible, because in ASM exemple mov ah,2 no use more over 10 or 100 transitors.
2867 2011-07-02 17:33:18 <Hetairie> so what you hide in my computer with over 3 milliards of transistor?
2868 2011-07-02 17:33:48 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: macs for desktops/laptops
2869 2011-07-02 17:34:55 <shLONG> lol i see the latest bitcoin client doesnt have a generate bitcoins option anymore
2870 2011-07-02 17:35:04 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, b4epoche_: mega-headers like Foundation.h and Windows.h generally have ways to ignore major subsystems (sets of symbols) that we don't want.  Rather than just say "It's called Foundation.h, the end" we need to look deeper, for the method Apple engineers provided us to ignore the SCSI symbol 'CDB'
2871 2011-07-02 17:35:13 <Hetairie> you mining with ASM software or other langage with bad compilator?
2872 2011-07-02 17:35:41 * jgarzik -> poof
2873 2011-07-02 17:36:07 <phrontist> Hetairie: Intel provides data sheets describing the hardware
2874 2011-07-02 17:36:12 <b4epoche_> actually, I was looking into that at one point...  trying to find a compiler director
2875 2011-07-02 17:36:31 <Hetairie> phrontist you have link for?
2876 2011-07-02 17:36:39 <phrontist> Hetairie: implementing all this takes a ton of transistors https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File:Intel_Pentium_MMX_arch.svg
2877 2011-07-02 17:37:26 <phrontist> Hetairie: google "intel datasheet"?
2878 2011-07-02 17:37:32 ThomasV has joined
2879 2011-07-02 17:37:53 <Joric> Hetairie, you said you got 80 Mh what GPU do you use?
2880 2011-07-02 17:40:56 <Hetairie> reprogrammable umbeded processor Altera EP4CE115C7 for exemple.
2881 2011-07-02 17:41:43 <Hetairie> but i think in the network, all information of that is cencured, i think intel or amd no love that.
2882 2011-07-02 17:42:44 <Hetairie> because little processor make over 8 or 10 more power for only 80mhz frequency.
2883 2011-07-02 17:42:44 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  this:  #if !__LP64__
2884 2011-07-02 17:42:45 <b4epoche_> #ifndef __SCSI__
2885 2011-07-02 17:42:45 <b4epoche_> #include <OSServices/SCSI.h>
2886 2011-07-02 17:42:45 <b4epoche_> #endif
2887 2011-07-02 17:42:49 <Joric> not sure if trolling or just belgian
2888 2011-07-02 17:42:49 huk has quit ()
2889 2011-07-02 17:43:18 <b4epoche_> looks like I'd just need to undefine __SCSI__
2890 2011-07-02 17:43:30 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: so, probably set __LP64__ and if that removes more than you want also __SCSI__
2891 2011-07-02 17:43:47 <b4epoche_> I'm not sure what LP64 is
2892 2011-07-02 17:44:00 <Hetairie> look the last amd 1055t 6 core make only 15mhash/s for 6x2.8Ghz.. LOL :-) it's a joke i think.
2893 2011-07-02 17:44:32 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
2894 2011-07-02 17:44:59 egecko has quit (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~)
2895 2011-07-02 17:45:18 egecko has joined
2896 2011-07-02 17:46:24 * BlueMatt just booted osx in a vm sans-iboot or other bootloader and with only one additional kext :) all you need is FakeSMC
2897 2011-07-02 17:47:25 <Hetairie> with that software and my logic, i think realy bitcoin is a trap consumption to sell energy to miners...
2898 2011-07-02 17:47:45 <Hetairie> who found never block.
2899 2011-07-02 17:48:13 <Burgundy> it's not only that...
2900 2011-07-02 17:48:20 Hetairie has joined
2901 2011-07-02 17:48:31 <Burgundy> don't you think hardware (mainly GPU) manufacturers would be selling goods as well ?
2902 2011-07-02 17:49:32 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2903 2011-07-02 17:49:43 <Joric> i've seen some calculations miners influence on AMD is really insignificant
2904 2011-07-02 17:49:57 <MrSam> new incentive on triplemining :) https://www.triplemining.com/pool_stats
2905 2011-07-02 17:50:00 <Hetairie> and botnet problem, wallet.dat problem and more and more insecure solution for take money if you found block.
2906 2011-07-02 17:50:09 <Burgundy> you can't be sure if the calculations are right and also, any plus is a plus
2907 2011-07-02 17:50:10 <b4epoche_> well, that didn't work...
2908 2011-07-02 17:50:20 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2909 2011-07-02 17:50:35 blueadept has joined
2910 2011-07-02 17:50:40 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: you just publically admitted to breaking multiple laws fyi
2911 2011-07-02 17:51:12 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: should probably be careful about that.
2912 2011-07-02 17:51:13 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: you mean running osx on non-apple hardware? yea I know so? its only breaking apple's eula not even dmca
2913 2011-07-02 17:51:17 <Burgundy> no, he did not, his computer just sent some bits over the internet, nobody saw him in person say anything
2914 2011-07-02 17:51:28 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2915 2011-07-02 17:51:43 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: the day apple starts going after everyone who runs osx on non-apple hardware is the day I buy a private islan
2916 2011-07-02 17:51:44 <BlueMatt> d
2917 2011-07-02 17:51:58 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: definitely breaks dmca since you have to cicumvent a prevention device
2918 2011-07-02 17:52:05 <BlueMatt> only sort of
2919 2011-07-02 17:52:18 <BlueMatt> I only emulate apple hardware which wasnt designed as a prevention device
2920 2011-07-02 17:52:19 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: doesn't matter, not something you should be publically endorsing or admitting to
2921 2011-07-02 17:52:23 <Joric> in what universe kicking a belgian is a crime
2922 2011-07-02 17:52:36 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: meh
2923 2011-07-02 17:52:38 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: especially with the scrutiny bitcoin is getting lately
2924 2011-07-02 17:53:00 <BlueMatt> well that would be a good point
2925 2011-07-02 17:53:43 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVM•AVTEM•CENSEO•CVTTENBERC•ESSE•DELENDVM)
2926 2011-07-02 17:53:53 * Optimo lays low
2927 2011-07-02 17:54:23 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: hm... Project "MacBitcoin.xcodeproj cannot be opened because it is missing a projecect.pbxproj file"
2928 2011-07-02 17:54:37 <Optimo> typo
2929 2011-07-02 17:54:41 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: did you get your stuff up on git? where is it?
2930 2011-07-02 17:54:54 <b4epoche_> it's up
2931 2011-07-02 17:54:57 <b4epoche_> ericmock/bitcoin
2932 2011-07-02 17:55:07 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: I just cloned that 10 secs ago
2933 2011-07-02 17:55:17 <BlueMatt> and I get that error
2934 2011-07-02 17:55:28 * Optimo goes for a row
2935 2011-07-02 17:55:38 <b4epoche_> hmm...
2936 2011-07-02 17:55:58 <jrmithdobbs> is that rebased on current head or just 3.23?
2937 2011-07-02 17:56:09 <b4epoche_> hmm...  I bet the xcodeproj directory wasn't added
2938 2011-07-02 17:56:15 <b4epoche_> jrmithdobbs:  rebase
2939 2011-07-02 17:56:23 enquirer has joined
2940 2011-07-02 17:57:08 <b4epoche_> git add cocoa ?
2941 2011-07-02 17:57:20 <Joric> btw how does it look like on mac? heard mac users hate wxWidgets
2942 2011-07-02 17:57:48 <enquirer> source code is one-way function, easy to write, impossible to decrypt
2943 2011-07-02 17:58:02 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: i shall use your project as my first test of github.app !
2944 2011-07-02 17:58:27 <b4epoche_> okay...  BlueMatt et al. should be fixed
2945 2011-07-02 17:58:42 <Joric> i've tried to use wxWidgets on mac, found out they lack a ton of things http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1966192&group_id=9863&atid=309863
2946 2011-07-02 17:59:03 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2947 2011-07-02 17:59:09 <jrmithdobbs> hmm, I can't figure out how to browse OTHER PEOPLE'S projects with github.app ... that makes this kind of useless
2948 2011-07-02 17:59:27 <Joric> since osx moved from carbon to cocoa most apis are just inaccesible
2949 2011-07-02 18:00:00 <BlueMatt> wx actually wraps cocoa now, so wx is using cocoa, just not natively
2950 2011-07-02 18:00:11 <jrmithdobbs> poorly
2951 2011-07-02 18:00:14 LanceRushing_ has joined
2952 2011-07-02 18:00:14 <BlueMatt> yea
2953 2011-07-02 18:00:27 <b4epoche_> it uglifies it terribly
2954 2011-07-02 18:01:33 <BlueMatt> thats fair, wx does do a poor job, hence why we have b4epoche_ to code us a cocoa ui ;)
2955 2011-07-02 18:01:58 <b4epoche_> and all kinds of cool extras
2956 2011-07-02 18:02:13 <jrmithdobbs> ok, i declare github.app worthless
2957 2011-07-02 18:02:21 AStove has joined
2958 2011-07-02 18:02:26 <jrmithdobbs> why did they even release this if i can't browse other people's repos with it
2959 2011-07-02 18:02:29 <jrmithdobbs> waste of time
2960 2011-07-02 18:03:55 LanceRushing has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2961 2011-07-02 18:03:55 LanceRushing_ is now known as LanceRushing
2962 2011-07-02 18:04:25 <BlueMatt> they should spend their time writing an actual bug handling system for the webui
2963 2011-07-02 18:04:36 <jrmithdobbs> it's a cool idea
2964 2011-07-02 18:04:40 <jrmithdobbs> but ya
2965 2011-07-02 18:04:54 <jrmithdobbs> seems like a huge waste of time considering you can't do anything that's awesome about github with it ...
2966 2011-07-02 18:05:29 wardearia has joined
2967 2011-07-02 18:05:30 <jrmithdobbs> kinda works if i manually clone first but if i have to do that why bother with github.app at all
2968 2011-07-02 18:05:33 <jrmithdobbs> heh
2969 2011-07-02 18:05:44 <copumpkin> jrmithdobbs: at least it's attractive
2970 2011-07-02 18:05:48 <copumpkin> jrmithdobbs: that's all that matters
2971 2011-07-02 18:05:53 <b4epoche_> you don't want to pull that anyway...
2972 2011-07-02 18:06:06 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: i'm not pulling it just cloning
2973 2011-07-02 18:06:15 nhodges has joined
2974 2011-07-02 18:06:16 <jrmithdobbs> i know it's not ready for prime time, just want to see your progress so far ;p
2975 2011-07-02 18:06:19 <b4epoche_> well, clone either...
2976 2011-07-02 18:06:50 <b4epoche_> as a git n00b I pushed some half-finished stuff...
2977 2011-07-02 18:07:26 <jrmithdobbs> well i'm looking at it whether you like it or not ;p
2978 2011-07-02 18:07:30 <b4epoche_> and I think that had the CDB problem
2979 2011-07-02 18:08:14 josephholsten has joined
2980 2011-07-02 18:08:17 <b4epoche_> feel free to look...  and be flabergast about my poor coding
2981 2011-07-02 18:08:28 <shLONG> whats this irc.h and cpp for in the bitcoin source
2982 2011-07-02 18:08:31 <Joric> microsoft basically does the same, now you should use guid and atl to invoke a file dialog
2983 2011-07-02 18:08:40 <shLONG> why does bitcoin need to connect to irc
2984 2011-07-02 18:09:00 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: are you using xcode 3 or 4?
2985 2011-07-02 18:09:05 <b4epoche_> 4
2986 2011-07-02 18:09:12 <BlueMatt> is that the one you have to pay for?
2987 2011-07-02 18:09:18 <jrmithdobbs> k was just wondering how many of these warnings to ignore immediately, guess none ;p
2988 2011-07-02 18:09:40 * b4epoche_ ignores all warnings...
2989 2011-07-02 18:09:43 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: your xibs are pretty for sure, good job in general so far ;p
2990 2011-07-02 18:10:02 * b4epoche_ learned how to use IB a couple weeks ago
2991 2011-07-02 18:10:22 <Joric> any screenshots?
2992 2011-07-02 18:10:47 Sylph has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2993 2011-07-02 18:10:55 <b4epoche_> http://snapplr.com/wn3v
2994 2011-07-02 18:11:02 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2995 2011-07-02 18:11:06 dobalina has joined
2996 2011-07-02 18:11:08 <b4epoche_> I tried to keep the same hideous look ;-)
2997 2011-07-02 18:11:16 <BlueMatt> can we add " Book" at the end of Address
2998 2011-07-02 18:11:23 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: it's an improvement, visually, already though
2999 2011-07-02 18:11:39 koleg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3000 2011-07-02 18:11:41 <BlueMatt> whats the high, low, last?
3001 2011-07-02 18:12:00 <b4epoche_> okay, just pushed something that should compile and run
3002 2011-07-02 18:12:11 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  stuff I pull from MtGox
3003 2011-07-02 18:12:22 <jrmithdobbs> take that out
3004 2011-07-02 18:12:24 <BlueMatt> oh mtgox price
3005 2011-07-02 18:12:29 <BlueMatt> yea, take that out
3006 2011-07-02 18:12:31 <b4epoche_> http://snapplr.com/e0zr
3007 2011-07-02 18:12:32 <Joric> i beg you for christ's sake add estimated blocks to the status bar i've tired of blockexplorer
3008 2011-07-02 18:12:40 <jrmithdobbs> client shouldn't be endorsing or using data from any exchange
3009 2011-07-02 18:12:49 <jrmithdobbs> especially if which exchange to use isn't configurable
3010 2011-07-02 18:12:52 <BlueMatt> it looks nice, but its not something for a bitcoin client
3011 2011-07-02 18:12:52 <b4epoche_> that's stuff for me
3012 2011-07-02 18:13:51 <jrmithdobbs> i think having it is a good idea, but don't think it should be turned on by default and needs to support multiple exchanges before included at all tbqh
3013 2011-07-02 18:14:01 <b4epoche_> it's my day-trader branch ;-)
3014 2011-07-02 18:14:19 <b4epoche_> jrmithdobbs:  http://snapplr.com/ytef
3015 2011-07-02 18:14:28 <BlueMatt> well, if you could remove that and put it in a branch, so this can be merged, it would be nice
3016 2011-07-02 18:14:55 <jrmithdobbs> ya other than it not being buildable atm and the exchange thing it looks quite nice so far
3017 2011-07-02 18:15:21 <copumpkin> b4epoche_: biggest feature will be command+h support!
3018 2011-07-02 18:15:22 <copumpkin> woohoo
3019 2011-07-02 18:15:32 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  yea, I had removed it...  but then pushed it accidently with the xcodeproj stuff...
3020 2011-07-02 18:16:05 dbasch has joined
3021 2011-07-02 18:16:07 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: you can branch this stuff you know
3022 2011-07-02 18:16:32 <b4epoche_> I know I can...  I just don't know how...  or how to maintain two branches
3023 2011-07-02 18:16:47 * b4epoche_ would rather just use compiler directives ;-)
3024 2011-07-02 18:16:49 zapnap has joined
3025 2011-07-02 18:16:52 dbasch has quit (Client Quit)
3026 2011-07-02 18:16:55 <copumpkin> you can merge back and forth between them easily
3027 2011-07-02 18:17:09 <BlueMatt> well I dont know if you can do it in xcode gui, but its really easy via git branch, git checkout, etc
3028 2011-07-02 18:17:43 <b4epoche_> Xcode seems to be pretty 'git feature complete'
3029 2011-07-02 18:17:51 <sanity> in the Bitcoin JSON API, with the sendfrom and sendtoaddress methods, why is the amount rounded to the nearest 0.01?
3030 2011-07-02 18:17:56 <b4epoche_> the problem is that I don't know how to use cvs's in general
3031 2011-07-02 18:18:14 <Joric> we need two instant currences for an arbitrage :) it's not easy to move usd between exchanges
3032 2011-07-02 18:18:59 <copumpkin> Joric: then arbitrage opportunities will evaporate quickly :)
3033 2011-07-02 18:18:59 <BlueMatt> lol, tom from myspace is apparently really active on Google+
3034 2011-07-02 18:19:10 <copumpkin> the only reason they're there is because it's a pain to move currency
3035 2011-07-02 18:20:45 dbasch has joined
3036 2011-07-02 18:21:03 <egecko> sanity, it isnt
3037 2011-07-02 18:21:14 <egecko> bitcoins arent floats
3038 2011-07-02 18:21:46 <sanity> egecko: it is according to the documentation: "<amount> is a real and is rounded to the nearest 0.01", see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls_list
3039 2011-07-02 18:22:07 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: this is a pretty good read iirc
3040 2011-07-02 18:22:09 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: http://book.git-scm.com/
3041 2011-07-02 18:22:18 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: should get you familiar with all the git basics
3042 2011-07-02 18:22:30 <BlueMatt> its no longer rounded to the nearest 0.01
3043 2011-07-02 18:22:32 <b4epoche_> thx, taking a look
3044 2011-07-02 18:22:39 <egecko> docs out of date?
3045 2011-07-02 18:22:44 <sanity> BlueMatt: someone should update the doc then
3046 2011-07-02 18:23:04 <sanity> BlueMatt: i can do it (i think - the wiki allows anonymous edits?)
3047 2011-07-02 18:23:15 <BlueMatt> sanity: I think youll have to register, but go ahead
3048 2011-07-02 18:23:29 <sanity> BlueMatt: how are those values stored?  arbitrary precision?
3049 2011-07-02 18:23:42 dan_a has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3050 2011-07-02 18:23:45 <BlueMatt> up to 8 decimal places
3051 2011-07-02 18:23:47 <BlueMatt> but still floats
3052 2011-07-02 18:24:00 <copumpkin> floats :o
3053 2011-07-02 18:24:13 <sanity> BlueMatt: isn't it bad practice to use floats to store currency due to rounding inaccuracies?
3054 2011-07-02 18:24:15 <BlueMatt> well internally nothing is float, but rpc is all float
3055 2011-07-02 18:24:19 <copumpkin> oh okay
3056 2011-07-02 18:24:22 <BlueMatt> sanity: yep, its terrible
3057 2011-07-02 18:24:40 <sanity> BlueMatt: is there a ticket to fix it?
3058 2011-07-02 18:24:47 <BlueMatt> I think there are several
3059 2011-07-02 18:24:53 <BlueMatt> but with rpc there isnt much of an option
3060 2011-07-02 18:25:13 <shLONG> yo i have cracked a commercial software
3061 2011-07-02 18:25:21 <shLONG> where can I upload it so people know about it?
3062 2011-07-02 18:25:28 <BlueMatt> not here?
3063 2011-07-02 18:25:36 <shLONG> i know it's a bit off topic
3064 2011-07-02 18:25:39 <BlueMatt> thepiratebay maybe?
3065 2011-07-02 18:25:45 <shLONG> how does all that work
3066 2011-07-02 18:25:46 <copumpkin> o.O
3067 2011-07-02 18:25:49 <shLONG> i have to serve it off my home pc?
3068 2011-07-02 18:25:51 <sanity> BlueMatt: I don't think JSON specifies any particular rounding requirement
3069 2011-07-02 18:25:57 <copumpkin> O.o
3070 2011-07-02 18:25:57 <shLONG> untill enough people have dopwnloaded it
3071 2011-07-02 18:25:58 erle- has joined
3072 2011-07-02 18:26:08 <sanity> BlueMatt: according to the JSON spec, a number can have any number of decimal digits
3073 2011-07-02 18:26:11 <BlueMatt> shLONG: yea, just dont post it its illegal anyway
3074 2011-07-02 18:26:25 <BlueMatt> sanity: in JSON, every number is a float if it has decimals iirc
3075 2011-07-02 18:26:40 <copumpkin> well
3076 2011-07-02 18:26:40 <Joric> shLONG, and this channel is pretty well logged
3077 2011-07-02 18:26:42 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: I dont feel like building, can you just send me the relevant libs?
3078 2011-07-02 18:26:43 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3079 2011-07-02 18:26:45 <copumpkin> it's just a text format
3080 2011-07-02 18:26:52 <sanity> BlueMatt: not according to the spec described here: http://www.json.org/
3081 2011-07-02 18:27:01 <b4epoche_> shLONG:  wtf?  you shouldn't be talking about cracking software to developers...
3082 2011-07-02 18:27:08 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: that's not the spec bitcoin uses
3083 2011-07-02 18:27:09 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  libs?
3084 2011-07-02 18:27:09 T_X has joined
3085 2011-07-02 18:27:19 <sanity> jrmithdobbs: then Bitcoin isn't using JSON
3086 2011-07-02 18:27:20 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: there's apparently like 10 different json-rpc specs
3087 2011-07-02 18:27:23 <b4epoche_> they should all be included
3088 2011-07-02 18:27:39 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: you're looking for the json-rpc over http 2.0 spec
3089 2011-07-02 18:27:45 <Soak> any plan to manage bitcoin memory (especially the daemon)? +27% memory needed in 2 two days without reboot..
3090 2011-07-02 18:27:47 <sanity> jrmithdobbs: surely the spec at http://json.org/ is authoritative?
3091 2011-07-02 18:27:53 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: you'd think that
3092 2011-07-02 18:27:56 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  you want the entire binary?
3093 2011-07-02 18:28:01 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: shit confused me too
3094 2011-07-02 18:28:09 <b4epoche_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1041468/CocoaBitcoin.app.zip
3095 2011-07-02 18:28:24 <shLONG> sorry
3096 2011-07-02 18:28:41 <shLONG> it's just an old game I developed with a team
3097 2011-07-02 18:28:43 <shLONG> the team went bus
3098 2011-07-02 18:28:45 <shLONG> bust*
3099 2011-07-02 18:28:49 <shLONG> no one makes money from it anymore
3100 2011-07-02 18:28:53 <sanity> jrmithdobbs: well, Bitcoin needs arbitrary precision numbers, and the original JSON spec appears to permit these - so my vote would be to stick with the original JSON spec
3101 2011-07-02 18:28:56 <shLONG> so i cracked the release so people can play it
3102 2011-07-02 18:29:02 <shLONG> no one sells it so
3103 2011-07-02 18:29:06 <shLONG> theres no other way really
3104 2011-07-02 18:29:09 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: preaching to the choir, i don't like the current rpc implementation at all
3105 2011-07-02 18:29:12 <Hetairie> what is the linux command for find these jews who hide in my computer please?
3106 2011-07-02 18:29:29 <upb> jewgrep
3107 2011-07-02 18:29:31 <jrmithdobbs> Hetairie: go away
3108 2011-07-02 18:29:35 <Hetairie> ok
3109 2011-07-02 18:29:36 <xelister> Hetairie: grep -i -r jew .
3110 2011-07-02 18:30:05 <Hetairie> and for windows?
3111 2011-07-02 18:30:16 <xelister> who uses windows
3112 2011-07-02 18:30:22 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: this is the right one i think
3113 2011-07-02 18:30:23 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: http://groups.google.com/group/json-rpc/web/json-rpc-over-http
3114 2011-07-02 18:30:23 <Hetairie> me
3115 2011-07-02 18:30:33 <xelister> Hetairie: you do sound like it indeed
3116 2011-07-02 18:30:54 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: it still doesn't follow it in regards to error messages being in fucking html but i'm not going to rant about that atm
3117 2011-07-02 18:31:26 <b4epoche_> jrmithdobbs:  here's the plan for the exchange functionality:  http://snapplr.com/vfjd
3118 2011-07-02 18:31:53 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3119 2011-07-02 18:32:01 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_:  i think it shouldn't be turned on by default at all
3120 2011-07-02 18:32:17 <b4epoche_> yea, it won't
3121 2011-07-02 18:32:20 <jrmithdobbs> b4epoche_: and you need wider support for more exchanges before including it, tbqh
3122 2011-07-02 18:32:44 <jrmithdobbs> including that in mainline bitcoin would be tantamount to saying those are the only trustworthy exchanges
3123 2011-07-02 18:32:45 <b4epoche_> yea, those are just placeholders really
3124 2011-07-02 18:32:49 <sanity> BlueMatt: wiki updated
3125 2011-07-02 18:32:53 <jrmithdobbs> which isn't something for the client to be endorsing
3126 2011-07-02 18:32:54 <jrmithdobbs> imho
3127 2011-07-02 18:33:17 <jrmithdobbs> (especially given my feelings on mtgox and tradehill, both of which should diaf imho)
3128 2011-07-02 18:33:27 <jrmithdobbs> heh
3129 2011-07-02 18:33:31 <b4epoche_> jrmithdobbs:  I completely agree.
3130 2011-07-02 18:33:33 DukeOfURL has joined
3131 2011-07-02 18:33:44 DukeOfURL has quit (Client Quit)
3132 2011-07-02 18:34:00 <sanity> can anyone direct my attention to the issue for supporting arbitrary precision decimals?
3133 2011-07-02 18:34:03 <jrmithdobbs> also, i just want to point out that my comments on cocoa bitcoin prove that I don't hate everything ;p
3134 2011-07-02 18:34:08 DukeOfURL has joined
3135 2011-07-02 18:34:12 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
3136 2011-07-02 18:34:16 <b4epoche_> thank you, I think ;-)
3137 2011-07-02 18:34:18 BlueMatt has joined
3138 2011-07-02 18:35:18 <sanity> actually, where is the bitcoin bugtracker?
3139 2011-07-02 18:35:34 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: github.com/bitcoin/issues
3140 2011-07-02 18:35:57 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: arbitrary precision isn't on the table though, seeing as 1btc should only be dividable to 8 decimal places
3141 2011-07-02 18:36:13 <jrmithdobbs> just like $1 usd is only dividable to $0.01
3142 2011-07-02 18:36:42 <sanity> jrmithdobbs: isn't that an arbitrary limitation?
3143 2011-07-02 18:36:55 <sanity> jrmithdobbs: i mean, just because USD does it, doesn't mean that Bitcoin has to
3144 2011-07-02 18:37:36 <jrmithdobbs> arbitrary? maybe. but the decision has already been made and widely published
3145 2011-07-02 18:38:04 <sanity> jrmithdobbs: i see, so its part of the Bitcoin spec, not just a characteristic of the implementation of the bitcoin client?
3146 2011-07-02 18:38:11 <jrmithdobbs> ya
3147 2011-07-02 18:38:34 erus`_ has joined
3148 2011-07-02 18:38:38 <sanity> unfortunate - it could prove short-sighted
3149 2011-07-02 18:38:40 <jrmithdobbs> there are several people that think using floats in the rpc is bad and it should be strings
3150 2011-07-02 18:38:42 puhc has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3151 2011-07-02 18:38:46 <jrmithdobbs> though
3152 2011-07-02 18:38:56 <jrmithdobbs> you're not the first to bring it up
3153 2011-07-02 18:39:01 dbasch has joined
3154 2011-07-02 18:39:33 <sanity> jrmithdobbs: yeah, its an obvious problem.  when programming with currency, rule #1 is to be very careful about how you handle rounding - and that you should really avoid it completely
3155 2011-07-02 18:40:04 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3156 2011-07-02 18:40:11 erus`_ is now known as erus`
3157 2011-07-02 18:40:20 <jrmithdobbs> sanity: yell at gavin, it's his code/spec iirc ;p
3158 2011-07-02 18:40:21 <sanity> jrmithdobbs: although I still see no reason that JSON-RPC can't support arbitrary precision decimals, there is nothing in the JSON spec to prevent it
3159 2011-07-02 18:40:49 <sanity> anyway, i'll quit ranting now :-)
3160 2011-07-02 18:41:36 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3161 2011-07-02 18:45:08 pusle has joined
3162 2011-07-02 18:46:10 jhudgins has left ()
3163 2011-07-02 18:47:47 <Hetairie> now you give me the solution for use normaly all my transistor in my computer, because not normal only 300Mhash/s with 3 milliards transistors.
3164 2011-07-02 18:48:03 <nathan7> milliard is not an English word.
3165 2011-07-02 18:48:08 <nathan7> Did you mean: billion
3166 2011-07-02 18:48:21 <copumpkin> milliard
3167 2011-07-02 18:48:24 <copumpkin> is an english word
3168 2011-07-02 18:48:29 <Hetairie> 3 billion of processor for 300mhash/s is a joke?
3169 2011-07-02 18:48:37 <Hetairie> you joke with me devel?
3170 2011-07-02 18:48:55 <nathan7> Hetairie: If you were using all transistors, no work would be possible.
3171 2011-07-02 18:49:13 <Hetairie> nathan7 you know how to work a processor?
3172 2011-07-02 18:49:19 <nathan7> The amount of transistors also has nothing to do with speed.
3173 2011-07-02 18:49:26 <makomk> milliard is a very old-fashioned English word, even.
3174 2011-07-02 18:49:27 <copumpkin> Hetairie: if you whip your GPU, it'll go faster
3175 2011-07-02 18:49:41 <copumpkin> it has to do with the difference between the long scale and short scale
3176 2011-07-02 18:49:43  has joined
3177 2011-07-02 18:49:48 <copumpkin> some people consider billion to be 10^12
3178 2011-07-02 18:49:53 <copumpkin> in which case milliard is 10^9
3179 2011-07-02 18:50:14 <nathan7> 10^9 1,000,000,000 (one billion, short scale; one thousand million, long scale) is the natural number following 999,999,999 and preceding 1,000,000,001.
3180 2011-07-02 18:50:17 <nathan7> erm
3181 2011-07-02 18:50:17 <nathan7> 1,000,000,000 (one billion, short scale; one thousand million, long scale) is the natural number following 999,999,999 and preceding 1,000,000,001.
3182 2011-07-02 18:50:21 <nathan7> In scientific notation, it is written as 109.
3183 2011-07-02 18:50:22 nameless has left (!~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|)
3184 2011-07-02 18:50:22 nameless has joined
3185 2011-07-02 18:50:25 <copumpkin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
3186 2011-07-02 18:50:26 <nathan7> Hi nameless|
3187 2011-07-02 18:50:29 <makomk> copumpkin: yeah, though that definition of billion's nearly died out.
3188 2011-07-02 18:50:29 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|hey nathan7
3189 2011-07-02 18:50:37 <copumpkin> there's a whole article on the scales :)
3190 2011-07-02 18:50:38 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|I was just trying to see if my ops would return
3191 2011-07-02 18:50:39 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3192 2011-07-02 18:50:41 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|They did not :\
3193 2011-07-02 18:50:54 <Hetairie> 3.000.000.000 transitor for only 300mhash/s with 1.25Ghz clock it's a joke? you joke with me or is true?
3194 2011-07-02 18:50:59 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|danke
3195 2011-07-02 18:51:03 <copumpkin> you don't have a 1.25ghz clock
3196 2011-07-02 18:51:07 <copumpkin> you have 810, probably
3197 2011-07-02 18:51:14 <copumpkin> you have 1.25ghz on the memory
3198 2011-07-02 18:51:17 <copumpkin> and that's irrelevant
3199 2011-07-02 18:51:18 <nathan7> You have no clue what you are talking about, Hetairie
3200 2011-07-02 18:51:22 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
3201 2011-07-02 18:51:43 <Hetairie> 1 intruction with processor use how much transistor?
3202 2011-07-02 18:51:48 <copumpkin> Hetairie's been bitching in here about off-topic stuff for a while now
3203 2011-07-02 18:51:58 <copumpkin> Hetairie: there's not a one-to-one correspondence
3204 2011-07-02 18:52:12 <nathan7> Hetairie: A transistor does one thing, be on or off.
3205 2011-07-02 18:52:17 dbasch has joined
3206 2011-07-02 18:52:25 <nathan7> It's a switch, nothing more nothing less
3207 2011-07-02 18:52:56 <Hetairie> not normal, not normal, i think you joke with me or compilator and opencl no good.
3208 2011-07-02 18:53:08 <copumpkin> Hetairie: use overdrive control and overclock your GPU to 860
3209 2011-07-02 18:53:16 <copumpkin> then use poclbm with often publicized parameters
3210 2011-07-02 18:53:22 <copumpkin> and get 350 or more mhash/s out of it
3211 2011-07-02 18:53:27 <UukGoblin> http://lev.uukgoblin.net/goblin/qrcode-quiz.png <- I'll pay 1 BTC to someone who can decode this qrcode and show me how. With software only, no manual reading pixel by pixel! :-P
3212 2011-07-02 18:53:28 <copumpkin> do some research, it really isn't that hard
3213 2011-07-02 18:53:35  is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-252-37-81.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
3214 2011-07-02 18:53:39 <Hetairie> copumpkin for win what? 50mhash/s? lol it's a joke too.
3215 2011-07-02 18:53:51 <copumpkin> Hetairie: did you do research before buying the card?
3216 2011-07-02 18:53:59 <copumpkin> 350-400 is the common range for a pushed version of that
3217 2011-07-02 18:54:14 <copumpkin> UukGoblin: holy shit that's a big QR code
3218 2011-07-02 18:54:22 <nathan7> You're offtopic in bitcoin-dev and unwilling to understand or read.
3219 2011-07-02 18:54:27 Hetairie has joined
3220 2011-07-02 18:54:36 <nathan7> Autorejoin?
3221 2011-07-02 18:54:38 <nathan7> How lame.
3222 2011-07-02 18:54:46 <b4epoche_>  /ignore
3223 2011-07-02 18:54:54 <UukGoblin> copumpkin, it's not anything important, I know what it contains, I'm just curious about how to do it ;-]
3224 2011-07-02 18:54:59 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|oh
3225 2011-07-02 18:55:02 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|nathan7: I got this
3226 2011-07-02 18:55:03 <nathan7> I'm really going to laugh if he PMs me now.
3227 2011-07-02 18:55:03 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|watch
3228 2011-07-02 18:55:05 <copumpkin>  /kickban is more efficient than having a few hundred people /ignore
3229 2011-07-02 18:55:09 Hetairie has joined
3230 2011-07-02 18:55:12 * nameless !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|wants some fun
3231 2011-07-02 18:55:12 <Hetairie> what is the hell here ? you make jail with users?
3232 2011-07-02 18:55:19 Hetairie has joined
3233 2011-07-02 18:55:22 <Hetairie> fuck
3234 2011-07-02 18:55:26 <copumpkin> lol
3235 2011-07-02 18:55:28 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|Oh right, I don't have my script on in here
3236 2011-07-02 18:55:32 * nameless !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|changes
3237 2011-07-02 18:55:33 nus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3238 2011-07-02 18:55:33 * Hetairie kick nameless|
3239 2011-07-02 18:55:33 * nathan7 awaits
3240 2011-07-02 18:55:39 * Hetairie kick nathan7
3241 2011-07-02 18:55:45 <copumpkin> Hetairie: if you're going to be a douchebag to people who are volunteering their time, then don't expect good treatment
3242 2011-07-02 18:55:56 <nathan7> I'm just waiting for nameless|
3243 2011-07-02 18:56:05 Hetairie has joined
3244 2011-07-02 18:56:19 <nathan7> Nice.
3245 2011-07-02 18:56:27 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|nathan7: sorry, I have it set to only certain channels to avoid being a total ass
3246 2011-07-02 18:56:29 <nathan7> Maybe we should ask nanotube to add that to gribble
3247 2011-07-02 18:56:36 Hetairie has joined
3248 2011-07-02 18:56:37 <Hetairie> fuck you pedophila operator
3249 2011-07-02 18:56:41 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|oh
3250 2011-07-02 18:56:41 <copumpkin> lol
3251 2011-07-02 18:56:43 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|and ban evasion
3252 2011-07-02 18:56:45 <nathan7> There.
3253 2011-07-02 18:56:50 <Eremes> where all the BTC payment fees go guys ?
3254 2011-07-02 18:56:56 <copumpkin> Eremes: miners
3255 2011-07-02 18:56:57 <nathan7> To miners, Eremes.
3256 2011-07-02 18:57:05 <Eremes> which miners ?
3257 2011-07-02 18:57:06 <sanity> so, what are the "comment" and "comment-to" parameters to "sendtoaddress" for?
3258 2011-07-02 18:57:11 Hetairie has joined
3259 2011-07-02 18:57:13 <Hetairie> fuck you jew operator !
3260 2011-07-02 18:57:16 <nathan7> *ahem*
3261 2011-07-02 18:57:16 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|offs
3262 2011-07-02 18:57:19 <copumpkin> Hetairie: lol
3263 2011-07-02 18:57:21 <nathan7> Although he *is* right
3264 2011-07-02 18:57:26 <nathan7> I'm Jewish.
3265 2011-07-02 18:57:36 <copumpkin> just ban *!*@ that host
3266 2011-07-02 18:57:37 <vrs> how about *!*@*.dyn.as47377.net
3267 2011-07-02 18:57:41 <copumpkin> he's just changing his user
3268 2011-07-02 18:57:52 <copumpkin> vrs: I'd imagine that's the whole ISP
3269 2011-07-02 18:57:59 <vrs> mh, probably is
3270 2011-07-02 18:58:01 <copumpkin> *!*@@cust-69-78-109-94.dyn.as47377.net
3271 2011-07-02 18:58:07 <copumpkin> ack, without two @
3272 2011-07-02 18:58:07 <Eremes> anyone know how many BTC block left to mine ?
3273 2011-07-02 18:58:11 <nathan7> erm
3274 2011-07-02 18:58:32 <nathan7> There you go.
3275 2011-07-02 18:58:37 <copumpkin> :)
3276 2011-07-02 18:58:56 nus has joined
3277 2011-07-02 18:58:57 <jtaylor> Eremes infinite as long as people make transactions, but the fixed reward will go down with time
3278 2011-07-02 18:59:10 kloeri has joined
3279 2011-07-02 18:59:18 <Joric> UukGoblin, i'll try to decode it wait a minute
3280 2011-07-02 18:59:24 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|nathan7: Now I'll kb anyone that autorejoins after a kick
3281 2011-07-02 18:59:27 <copumpkin> I'm curious what's in it
3282 2011-07-02 18:59:29 <nathan7> Hi kloeri.
3283 2011-07-02 18:59:36 <nathan7> nameless|: (=
3284 2011-07-02 18:59:45 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|I think
3285 2011-07-02 18:59:50 * nameless !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|goes to test
3286 2011-07-02 18:59:58 <copumpkin> you can test on me
3287 2011-07-02 18:59:59 <copumpkin> :P
3288 2011-07-02 19:00:03 * copumpkin says something annoying about haskell
3289 2011-07-02 19:00:06 <Joric> UukGoblin, i badly need 1 BTC :)
3290 2011-07-02 19:00:09 <nathan7> This is actually the first time I use my op privs for something useful
3291 2011-07-02 19:00:09 <Eremes> jtaylor: cool , thanks
3292 2011-07-02 19:00:31 <nameless> !~root@mindjail.subluminal.net|nathan7: I had to kickban a spammer after mtgox
3293 2011-07-02 19:00:37 <nathan7> Interesting.
3294 2011-07-02 19:01:54 <Eremes> till today I still can't believe my BTC got hacked =(
3295 2011-07-02 19:01:57 <Joric> UukGoblin, zxing.org says "A:14C"
3296 2011-07-02 19:02:11 <UukGoblin> Joric, nope, it's much longer than that
3297 2011-07-02 19:02:24 <kloeri> hi nathan7
3298 2011-07-02 19:02:43 <UukGoblin> Joric, it doesn't contain such string
3299 2011-07-02 19:03:25 <Joric> okay, hang on
3300 2011-07-02 19:03:45 <copumpkin> lol, [02:59:50 PM] <Kapetan> Any body know for what Radeon 6950 use 3.000.000.000 of transistor for only 300Mhahs/s?
3301 2011-07-02 19:03:55 <copumpkin> I wonder who that could be
3302 2011-07-02 19:04:13 MartianW has joined
3303 2011-07-02 19:04:37 <sanity> is there any practical limit to the number of accounts / addresses a bitcoin client can handle?  could it have hundreds of thousands, for example?
3304 2011-07-02 19:04:42 Hetairie has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3305 2011-07-02 19:06:08 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Matt Corallo master * r013df1c / src/net.cpp : Give more detailed error messages for connection failure. - http://bit.ly/m00HEL
3306 2011-07-02 19:06:09 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r1a19fc1 / src/net.cpp :
3307 2011-07-02 19:06:09 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Merge pull request #374 from TheBlueMatt/neterror
3308 2011-07-02 19:06:09 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Give more detailed error messages for connection failure. - http://bit.ly/mzL0HP
3309 2011-07-02 19:06:37 dbasch has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3310 2011-07-02 19:06:48 NickelBot has joined
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3312 2011-07-02 19:07:01 <shLONG> guys
3313 2011-07-02 19:07:09 <shLONG> if im sending money from my account to some one
3314 2011-07-02 19:07:17 <shLONG> i dont really care about how many confirmations do i./
3315 2011-07-02 19:07:19 <shLONG> ?
3316 2011-07-02 19:07:31 Shuddertrix has joined
3317 2011-07-02 19:07:59 <Eremes> I think as long you see your balance deduct u can immediately disconect from internet
3318 2011-07-02 19:08:14 <Eremes> CMIIW
3319 2011-07-02 19:10:54 nidefawl has joined
3320 2011-07-02 19:11:18 <BlueMatt> shLONG: no, you do care about confirmations, what you dont care about is when you get them, big difference
3321 2011-07-02 19:12:17 <xtalmath> you care in both cases, suppose you buy/sell a bicycle with bitcoins, you dont want to hand out the bike untill youre sure you received the BTC, and you dont want to send the BTC untill your sure you get the bike
3322 2011-07-02 19:17:18 josephholsten has quit (Quit: josephholsten)
3323 2011-07-02 19:18:17 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
3324 2011-07-02 19:19:40 MartianW has left ("Bye all.")
3325 2011-07-02 19:22:31 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3326 2011-07-02 19:27:41 <diki> i was wondering
3327 2011-07-02 19:28:00 <diki> if only one round of sha256 what used instead of two, would it not after many tries still produce a valid hash?
3328 2011-07-02 19:28:19 <upb> sure
3329 2011-07-02 19:28:19 pusle has quit ()
3330 2011-07-02 19:28:23 <diki> what i mean is sha256(data) instead of sha256(sha256(data))
3331 2011-07-02 19:28:34 <copumpkin> nobody really knows why that was done, as far as I know
3332 2011-07-02 19:30:03 suriv has joined
3333 2011-07-02 19:30:04 <xelister> ;;bc,gen 3000
3334 2011-07-02 19:30:05 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 3000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 0.0021878145896 BTC per day and 9.11589412333e-05 BTC per hour.
3335 2011-07-02 19:30:38 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
3336 2011-07-02 19:32:32 dbasch_ has quit (Quit: dbasch_)
3337 2011-07-02 19:34:06 nefario has left ()
3338 2011-07-02 19:35:50 WildSoil has joined
3339 2011-07-02 19:38:06 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
3340 2011-07-02 19:38:08 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134436 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 635 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1588706.97944858
3341 2011-07-02 19:39:09 Stellar has joined
3342 2011-07-02 19:41:47 dbasch has joined
3343 2011-07-02 19:42:48 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3344 2011-07-02 19:44:23 Raccoon0 is now known as Raccoon
3345 2011-07-02 19:44:38 Raccoon has quit (Changing host)
3346 2011-07-02 19:44:38 Raccoon has joined
3347 2011-07-02 19:45:57 Shuddertrix has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3348 2011-07-02 19:47:59 Eremes has quit ()
3349 2011-07-02 19:49:21 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
3350 2011-07-02 19:51:03 xelister is now known as xelister_
3351 2011-07-02 19:51:04 xelister_ is now known as xelister
3352 2011-07-02 19:51:17 alex__ has joined
3353 2011-07-02 19:51:51 alex__ has quit (Client Quit)
3354 2011-07-02 19:52:14 undersco2 has joined
3355 2011-07-02 19:54:21 NickelBot has joined
3356 2011-07-02 19:55:02 Grouver has joined
3357 2011-07-02 19:56:55 <MrSam> ;;bc,gen 21899561
3358 2011-07-02 19:56:56 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 21899561 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 15.9707263539 BTC per day and 0.665446931412 BTC per hour.
3359 2011-07-02 19:57:18 <minus> ;;bc,stats
3360 2011-07-02 19:57:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134439 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 632 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 15 hours, 15 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1589476.37467581
3361 2011-07-02 19:57:39 eao has joined
3362 2011-07-02 19:57:56 <minus> 1.6M? wow
3363 2011-07-02 19:58:28 <MrSam> bleh
3364 2011-07-02 19:58:29 <MrSam> sucks
3365 2011-07-02 19:58:48 <MrSam> cant everyone stop mining for 14 days
3366 2011-07-02 19:59:03 wardearia has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3367 2011-07-02 19:59:04 <MrSam> and then that would be one heck of a 14 days following :P
3368 2011-07-02 19:59:05 Sylph has joined
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3378 2011-07-02 20:07:24 <gim> sipa: just in case, maybe you have pending update for rejectedtx branch? ...cause merging it with master is like hell :-x
3379 2011-07-02 20:07:28 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
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3385 2011-07-02 20:12:17 <sipa> gim: i consider rewriting it
3386 2011-07-02 20:12:27 <sipa> for current master
3387 2011-07-02 20:12:30 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
3388 2011-07-02 20:12:49 <sipa> BlueMatt: bitcoin-qt developer is wumpus here
3389 2011-07-02 20:13:10 <BlueMatt> oh, didnt know that
3390 2011-07-02 20:13:15 <gim> you mean do it differently?
3391 2011-07-02 20:13:30 <sipa> no, just redo from scratch
3392 2011-07-02 20:13:37 <gim> ah ok :)
3393 2011-07-02 20:13:46 <sipa> just too much that changed internally
3394 2011-07-02 20:13:58 xtalmath has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3395 2011-07-02 20:14:12 abragin has joined
3396 2011-07-02 20:14:14 <sipa> MrSam: from leuven?
3397 2011-07-02 20:14:17 <sipa> me too
3398 2011-07-02 20:14:34 <diki> let's see if i can compile gpumine/minerd under mingw
3399 2011-07-02 20:14:40 <MrSam> sipa: cool
3400 2011-07-02 20:14:58 phrontist is now known as ZeroCool
3401 2011-07-02 20:15:04 ZeroCool is now known as phrontist
3402 2011-07-02 20:16:17 wardearia has joined
3403 2011-07-02 20:16:51 <MrSam> sipa: do you work ? or a student ?
3404 2011-07-02 20:18:42 <MrSam> whoop whoop
3405 2011-07-02 20:18:44 <MrSam> my hack works
3406 2011-07-02 20:18:45 <MrSam> error: {"code":-4,"message":"Total : 0.001 + 0.0005"}
3407 2011-07-02 20:19:03 <MrSam> getting calculated txfee's from bitcoind
3408 2011-07-02 20:19:44 <MrSam> now all i have to do is keep it closed source under the name samcoins and convice everyone to switch to my blockchain
3409 2011-07-02 20:21:26 <phrontist> calculated txfees?
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3413 2011-07-02 20:23:34 pesco_ is now known as pesco
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3415 2011-07-02 20:24:23 <diki> so, the readme of gpumine says "Install libcurl, copy libcurl.m4 into /mingw/share/aclocal"
3416 2011-07-02 20:24:33 <diki> ok, but it doesnt go into details...compile from source or what?
3417 2011-07-02 20:24:39 <BlueMatt> sipa: IMHO rejectedtx is something that we need, but something that we need is way down on the list still so...
3418 2011-07-02 20:24:39 <diki> it just says install as if i am psychic
3419 2011-07-02 20:24:43 josephholsten has joined
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3421 2011-07-02 20:24:53 <diki> well newsflash, i am not
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3423 2011-07-02 20:39:11 marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK
3424 2011-07-02 20:41:40 <sipa> MrSam: phd student
3425 2011-07-02 20:42:43 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes, we need a lot of things :)
3426 2011-07-02 20:43:25 <BlueMatt> sipa: what is your phd research on?
3427 2011-07-02 20:43:41 <sipa> functional abstractions in constraint programming
3428 2011-07-02 20:45:11 <jgarzik> sipa, BlueMatt: so it sounds like we just need to pull fixes for whatever known CWallet bugs there are
3429 2011-07-02 20:45:20 <BlueMatt> ...interesting, had never heard of constraint programming
3430 2011-07-02 20:45:32 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: that would be the first commit on the address book pull
3431 2011-07-02 20:45:39 <sipa> indeed
3432 2011-07-02 20:45:50 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/358
3433 2011-07-02 20:45:54 <BlueMatt> 4d410cf
3434 2011-07-02 20:45:56 <jgarzik> 4d410cf 		Fix AddressBook syncrhonization between a CWallet and CWalletDB
3435 2011-07-02 20:45:59 <jgarzik> ok
3436 2011-07-02 20:46:03 <sipa> that one, indeed
3437 2011-07-02 20:46:17 <BlueMatt> then rc1 tag and Ill have a build by midnight
3438 2011-07-02 20:46:19 <jgarzik> sipa: any other known bugs outstanding, that did not exist before CWallet?
3439 2011-07-02 20:46:25 AAA_awright has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
3440 2011-07-02 20:46:28 <sipa> not that i know of
3441 2011-07-02 20:46:32 Shuddertrix has joined
3442 2011-07-02 20:46:55 <BlueMatt> dont think so either
3443 2011-07-02 20:47:46 erle- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3444 2011-07-02 20:48:38 <diki> wtf?? "checking whether the C compiler works... no"
3445 2011-07-02 20:48:41 <diki> how could it not work
3446 2011-07-02 20:48:44 <diki> gcc works just fine
3447 2011-07-02 20:48:48 <diki> stupid coder of mingw
3448 2011-07-02 20:48:58 AAA_awright has joined
3449 2011-07-02 20:49:03 <sipa> jgarzik, BlueMatt: should we remove the other remaining parts of IP transactions too?
3450 2011-07-02 20:49:15 <BlueMatt> Id say no, but absolutely in 0.4
3451 2011-07-02 20:49:20 <jgarzik> sipa: you said yesterday CWallet removed IP transactions?  was that a total removal, or are bits of https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/253 still needed?
3452 2011-07-02 20:49:23 <sipa> given that cwallet already dropped support for accepting the message
3453 2011-07-02 20:49:31 <jgarzik> heh
3454 2011-07-02 20:49:49 <sipa> jgarzik: only dropped accepting the message
3455 2011-07-02 20:49:49 <BlueMatt> well we havent accepted the message for quite a while now
3456 2011-07-02 20:49:59 <sipa> well, the code for doing so is removed now
3457 2011-07-02 20:50:06 <sipa> indeed, it was already disabled
3458 2011-07-02 20:50:09 E-sense has joined
3459 2011-07-02 20:50:28 <sipa> so i guess there are still bits remaining
3460 2011-07-02 20:50:43 <BlueMatt> I think just the send parts remain
3461 2011-07-02 20:51:02 <sipa> yes, that's possible
3462 2011-07-02 20:51:13 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * ra768996 / (src/rpc.cpp src/ui.cpp src/wallet.cpp src/wallet.h): Merge branch 'tmp2' into tmp3 - http://bit.ly/mtvpF1
3463 2011-07-02 20:51:16 <BlueMatt> well yea, that all gets ripped out in 0.4 imo
3464 2011-07-02 20:51:47 <jgarzik> well, it's not important
3465 2011-07-02 20:51:50 <jgarzik> disabled by default
3466 2011-07-02 20:51:58 erle- has joined
3467 2011-07-02 20:51:59 <BlueMatt> yea I think its fine till 0.4
3468 2011-07-02 20:52:30 <sipa> BlueMatt: btw, for preventing the 'long' cs_masterkey lock when changing keys
3469 2011-07-02 20:52:44 <sipa> mkey id's always go up, right?
3470 2011-07-02 20:52:50 <BlueMatt> yes
3471 2011-07-02 20:53:09 <sipa> so, you could cache (in CWallet) the id of the last key an unlock was done with
3472 2011-07-02 20:53:12 <BlueMatt> though, after thinking about it after you said it, I think cs_masterkey locked gets locked very, vary rarely
3473 2011-07-02 20:53:24 <BlueMatt> long locked
3474 2011-07-02 20:53:26 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: is there any sort of README or other doc for wallet encryption, that will serve as a readable introduction for users?
3475 2011-07-02 20:53:50 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: hm, no but what would be put there that isnt already in the ui?
3476 2011-07-02 20:54:03 <sipa> BlueMatt: when you do a change the passphrase, you just do a (re)unlock, check the unlock id, add the new key, and then remove the old id
3477 2011-07-02 20:54:18 <sipa> if that old id doesn't exist anymore, nobody cares
3478 2011-07-02 20:54:48 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: just thinking if we want users to properly prepare, they should know how the code will behave and affect their valuable wallets -before- they run wallet encryption for the first time
3479 2011-07-02 20:54:51 <BlueMatt> and if the password gets changed via rpc at the same time
3480 2011-07-02 20:54:54 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: that sort of stuff requires a plan
3481 2011-07-02 20:54:56 <BlueMatt> now you have two valid passwords...
3482 2011-07-02 20:55:01 <sipa> BlueMatt: yup
3483 2011-07-02 20:55:02 marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc
3484 2011-07-02 20:55:09 <BlueMatt> sipa: that seems broken
3485 2011-07-02 20:55:39 <BlueMatt> though I agree multiple passwords would be cool, a hack like that to get it seems wrong
3486 2011-07-02 20:55:39 <sipa> well, theonly real solution is fully supporting multiple passphrases :)
3487 2011-07-02 20:55:45 <BlueMatt> well that too
3488 2011-07-02 20:56:20 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: hm ok, Ill write something up for the release notes...also: can we have a release notes file sitting in git that gets updated on every commit and/or release?
3489 2011-07-02 20:56:37 erle- has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3490 2011-07-02 20:56:55 <gim> i was wondering, would it be possible to implement an address revocation mechanism
3491 2011-07-02 20:57:10 <gim> anything on this subject?
3492 2011-07-02 20:57:16 <b4epoche_> what is the thinking for multiple wallets and passwords?
3493 2011-07-02 20:57:25 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * rb4b536d / (4 files in 3 dirs): Bump version to 0.3.24. - http://bit.ly/jstsq0
3494 2011-07-02 20:57:26 <b4epoche_> maybe an Open Wallet... menu
3495 2011-07-02 20:57:38 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: say, a backup key that you print out
3496 2011-07-02 20:57:39 <sipa> b4epoche_: i am very very much in favor of that
3497 2011-07-02 20:57:53 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: sure
3498 2011-07-02 20:58:05 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  backup key?
3499 2011-07-02 20:58:07 <sipa> just to make users 'feel' there is some object they are interacting with that represents their wallet (a file)
3500 2011-07-02 20:58:08 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it's not gonna get updated on every commit, though, I can tell you that right now ;-)
3501 2011-07-02 20:58:39 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: ie when you encrypt your wallet, you also can chose for a backup key (really a pass, but they dont need to know that ;) ) that you print out in case you lose your password
3502 2011-07-02 20:58:52 <b4epoche_> you could have it open the last opened wallet on launch for convenience
3503 2011-07-02 20:59:01 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well yea, it *should* be, but will never be...in any case, it would be nice to have
3504 2011-07-02 20:59:08 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  oh
3505 2011-07-02 20:59:57 <b4epoche_> are you going to have the private key password protected?
3506 2011-07-02 21:00:03 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * rfc27eb1 / contrib/Bitcoin.app/Contents/Info.plist : Bump OSX version to 0.3.24 (missed in previous commit) - http://bit.ly/leD1mF
3507 2011-07-02 21:00:11 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: of course, otherwise why encrypt?
3508 2011-07-02 21:00:51 <b4epoche_> oh, a backup key...  I was thinking a backup password
3509 2011-07-02 21:00:54 <gim> i don't understand the password backup thing, what's the point? to split the private info in two locations?
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3512 2011-07-02 21:01:23 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: well it is a password, but it would be presented as a bunch of random chars or words
3513 2011-07-02 21:01:41 <sipa> gim: just two separate passphrases
3514 2011-07-02 21:01:54 <b4epoche_> where is this private key going to be stored?  in a bdb?  or just like 'normal'
3515 2011-07-02 21:02:03 <zapnap> jgarzik: hey another pushpool q.... would you have anything against my adding support for SHA1-hashed passwords (as stored in db)? Or is there any specific reason to keep those db passwords plaintext??
3516 2011-07-02 21:02:04 <BlueMatt> just like another password
3517 2011-07-02 21:02:06 <sipa> that both unlock the masterkey, with which the wallet's private keys are encrypted
3518 2011-07-02 21:02:40 <b4epoche_> is the entire wallet.dat going to be encrypted or the data inside it?
3519 2011-07-02 21:02:44 <jgarzik> zapnap: sounds like a good improvement to me
3520 2011-07-02 21:02:50 <gim> so it would be a 1-out-of-2 scheme?
3521 2011-07-02 21:02:54 <sipa> no, only the private keys will be encrypted
3522 2011-07-02 21:02:55 <zapnap> jgarzik: okay. just wasn't sure if there was a reason...
3523 2011-07-02 21:03:03 <jgarzik> zapnap: pushpool welcomes constructive improvements :)
3524 2011-07-02 21:03:08 <zapnap> i'll work on that today. blow the dust off my c/openssl chops :p
3525 2011-07-02 21:03:19 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: just the private keys
3526 2011-07-02 21:03:21 <zapnap> one of these days i'll get back to work on my ruby frontend haha
3527 2011-07-02 21:03:40 <zapnap> jgarzik: for sure, awesome. just wanted to check first.
3528 2011-07-02 21:03:44 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, sipa: tag v0.3.24rc1 pushed to github, let the building commence
3529 2011-07-02 21:04:14 <BlueMatt> yay
3530 2011-07-02 21:04:34 <b4epoche_> wait, okay, there will be a private key to unlock the wallet private keys, right?
3531 2011-07-02 21:04:51 <BlueMatt> yep, and that key will be encrypted with a passphrase
3532 2011-07-02 21:04:56 <BlueMatt> so you will need that pass to send coins
3533 2011-07-02 21:04:56 <sipa> b4epoche_: not a private key, it's symmetric encryption
3534 2011-07-02 21:05:22 <BlueMatt> sipa: its still private and a key...just not private in a pair of public/private
3535 2011-07-02 21:05:22 <sipa> b4epoche_: there will be a passphrase, using which a master key is encrypted, using which the wallet private keys are encrypted
3536 2011-07-02 21:05:24 <BlueMatt> ;)
3537 2011-07-02 21:05:36 <b4epoche_> ah, okay...
3538 2011-07-02 21:06:02 <b4epoche_> and that master key is stored where?  in wallet.dat?
3539 2011-07-02 21:06:21 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: source tarball uploaded to https://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.24/test/
3540 2011-07-02 21:06:44 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: if you could update doc/release-process.txt with useful gitian info (the placeholder should be obvious), that would be appreciated
3541 2011-07-02 21:06:45 <sipa> b4epoche_: yes
3542 2011-07-02 21:07:20 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: one thing at a time, I need to write your readme first...
3543 2011-07-02 21:07:36 currentB has joined
3544 2011-07-02 21:07:47 <BlueMatt> sipa: make sure you update your makefile.linux-mingw before mingw building (if you build it)
3545 2011-07-02 21:08:02 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: yeah, it's low priority.  readme and other doc stuff is for v0.4.  builds for 0.3.24rc1 are more immediate
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3547 2011-07-02 21:08:04 <diki> oh cool
3548 2011-07-02 21:08:05 <diki> In file included from miner.h:15:0,
3549 2011-07-02 21:08:06 <diki>                  from cpu-miner.c:30:
3550 2011-07-02 21:08:06 <diki> C:/APP/include/CL/cl.h:32:28: fatal error: CL/cl_platform.h: No such file or dir
3551 2011-07-02 21:08:06 <diki> ectory
3552 2011-07-02 21:08:26 <currentB> Anyone happen to have extensive price data for btcs, preferably by the tick or even "level 2" if that's possible? I'd be willing to pay if you have good stuff
3553 2011-07-02 21:08:44 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,gen 1500
3554 2011-07-02 21:08:46 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 1500 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 0.0010939072948 BTC per day and 4.55794706167e-05 BTC per hour.
3555 2011-07-02 21:08:48 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3556 2011-07-02 21:08:54 nocreativenick1 has joined
3557 2011-07-02 21:09:08 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,stats
3558 2011-07-02 21:09:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134444 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 627 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 14 hours, 54 minutes, and 33 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1586703.16398318
3559 2011-07-02 21:09:19 <Mad7Scientist> nocreativenick1, that's very creative
3560 2011-07-02 21:10:38 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,gen 2000
3561 2011-07-02 21:10:39 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 0.00145854305973 BTC per day and 6.07726274889e-05 BTC per hour.
3562 2011-07-02 21:11:14 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,gen 2000000
3563 2011-07-02 21:11:15 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 1.45854305973 BTC per day and 0.0607726274889 BTC per hour.
3564 2011-07-02 21:11:32 <sipa> BlueMatt: i'm not going to build now,
3565 2011-07-02 21:12:02 <diki> anyone have a solution for me?
3566 2011-07-02 21:12:09 <diki> paths are correct...
3567 2011-07-02 21:12:24 <BlueMatt> sipa: alright, Ill handle the mingw one then...or are they deterministic, I thought they werent...
3568 2011-07-02 21:13:02 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: look good https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/2fae10460d59172a3e6015255c6710327581448c ?
3569 2011-07-02 21:13:16 <BlueMatt> I think I should rebase all these commits into one...just seems wrong this way
3570 2011-07-02 21:13:48 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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3573 2011-07-02 21:15:54 <diki> i really hate when i have to now open all them files and put direct paths in order to compile
3574 2011-07-02 21:16:29 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: it's a good start.  I was thinking of something a bit longer, that explains what happens to old wallets, explains that it is partial encryption and not whole-wallet encryption, how and when to backup before the encryption process, etc.
3575 2011-07-02 21:16:41 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: anyway, this is a v0.4 documentation issue and not for today
3576 2011-07-02 21:16:46 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I can help write something
3577 2011-07-02 21:16:48 <BlueMatt> oh...everything
3578 2011-07-02 21:16:53 <BlueMatt> alright Ill go do that instead
3579 2011-07-02 21:17:32 pogden has joined
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3581 2011-07-02 21:18:06 <gim> BlueMatt: s/noone/no one/
3582 2011-07-02 21:18:10 * jgarzik disappears for a few hours of family time, back around 8:30pm EST
3583 2011-07-02 21:18:21 <sipa> could we have the dependencies/patches/scripts/... for building the official binaries in a bitcoin/ tree?
3584 2011-07-02 21:18:23 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3585 2011-07-02 21:18:32 <sipa> instead of some developer's private ktree
3586 2011-07-02 21:18:33 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: lol family...what is that?
3587 2011-07-02 21:18:49 osmosis has joined
3588 2011-07-02 21:19:11 <BlueMatt> well the makefile.linux-mingw was gonna be skipped when we got autotools merged at 0.4
3589 2011-07-02 21:19:14 liltoe has joined
3590 2011-07-02 21:19:16 <BlueMatt> but...well that didnt work out
3591 2011-07-02 21:19:30 osmosis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3592 2011-07-02 21:19:32 <b4epoche_> where is mapKeys declared?
3593 2011-07-02 21:20:12 <sipa> CKeyStore
3594 2011-07-02 21:20:18 <b4epoche_> thx...  just found it
3595 2011-07-02 21:21:13 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3596 2011-07-02 21:21:33 arthurb has joined
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3598 2011-07-02 21:24:33 <Glasswalker> Hey just popping on at a more reasonable hour (and after less alcohol) to post a new app I released. For connecting to a remote wallet and managing it (currently for windows)
3599 2011-07-02 21:24:36 <Glasswalker> https://github.com/Glasswalker/Wallet.Net
3600 2011-07-02 21:24:47 <Glasswalker> I fixed the major bug or two from the original version from last night
3601 2011-07-02 21:25:19 <Glasswalker> If anyone wants to help test (using testnet preferably) I would appreciate it. I just whipped it up quick so it's still rough around the edges, not quite complete and might (likely) have bugs.
3602 2011-07-02 21:25:38 <Glasswalker> If you find any issues, please submit them via the github issues page.
3603 2011-07-02 21:27:00 <neofutur> ssh allows me to connect a remote wallet and managing it ;)
3604 2011-07-02 21:27:30 <diki> so..shouldnt mingw produce binariers that work natively on windows?
3605 2011-07-02 21:27:45 <diki> i compiled minerd finally and it works on migw's cli, but not otherwise
3606 2011-07-02 21:28:29 cuddlefish has joined
3607 2011-07-02 21:28:42 <cuddlefish> Where does Bitcoin get the entropy for key gen?
3608 2011-07-02 21:28:55 <cuddlefish> PRNG? what's it seeded with
3609 2011-07-02 21:29:09 <xtalmath> it uses OpenSSL
3610 2011-07-02 21:29:16 <cuddlefish> Ah, good.
3611 2011-07-02 21:29:18 <xtalmath> so its wherever openssl gets its entropy
3612 2011-07-02 21:29:27 puhc has joined
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3614 2011-07-02 21:29:40 <cuddlefish> k, thought it might be possible to attack MyBitcoin if it was time-seeded
3615 2011-07-02 21:29:48 <xtalmath> well at least the ecdsa part, im not sure where it comes from wherever else entropy is needed in bitcoin
3616 2011-07-02 21:29:50 <Glasswalker> neofutur, my app is intended to provide a gui. Yes SSH allows you to do it via commandline, but not everyone wants a commandline. (and my app eventually will have working ssh tunnelling built in)
3617 2011-07-02 21:30:02 <cuddlefish> xtalmath: Yeah, I was just worried it was seeded with a timestamp
3618 2011-07-02 21:30:04 <phantomcircuit> anybody else notice that -nolisten doesn't work
3619 2011-07-02 21:30:05 <phantomcircuit> at all
3620 2011-07-02 21:30:16 <Glasswalker> Anyway, no need for everyone to use it, just made it for myself because I wanted it. And thought it might be useful to others.
3621 2011-07-02 21:30:22 Blitzboom has joined
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3623 2011-07-02 21:30:23 Blitzboom has joined
3624 2011-07-02 21:30:26 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: pong this when you get back
3625 2011-07-02 21:30:39 <xtalmath> also im not sure where the statically linked in openssl derives its entropy from, I guess it calls the OS's random gen, but how safe these are in various distros,... no clue
3626 2011-07-02 21:31:03 traviscj_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3627 2011-07-02 21:31:03 <cuddlefish> xtalmath: yeah, as long as it's not pure timebased, Windows should be safe
3628 2011-07-02 21:31:11 <cuddlefish> ... derp, MyBitcoin
3629 2011-07-02 21:31:43 <xtalmath> also I can imagine, that the current directory has priority in some distros/OSes, so if openssl looks for a lib for random, having a malicious .so or .dll in the same folder as bitcoin could be dangerous
3630 2011-07-02 21:31:44 <phantomcircuit> xtalmath, openssl uses a combination of /dev/random and it's own internal entropy pool
3631 2011-07-02 21:32:02 <xtalmath> ok
3632 2011-07-02 21:32:16 <xtalmath> does it block when entropy pool is empty?
3633 2011-07-02 21:32:17 <phantomcircuit> on windows it uses the built in entropy pool
3634 2011-07-02 21:32:31 <phantomcircuit> but iirc the windows entropy pool is un documented
3635 2011-07-02 21:32:32 <xtalmath> built in entropy pool is what exactly?
3636 2011-07-02 21:32:50 <phantomcircuit> nobody knows
3637 2011-07-02 21:32:52 <phantomcircuit> it's undocumented
3638 2011-07-02 21:32:52 <xtalmath> derived from how it was loaded?
3639 2011-07-02 21:33:01 <phantomcircuit> what?
3640 2011-07-02 21:33:13 <andyfletcher> phantomcircuit, on debian I've seen delayed logins on ssh when the entropy pool is low
3641 2011-07-02 21:33:17 <xtalmath> openssl's "built-in entropy pool"
3642 2011-07-02 21:33:21 <phantomcircuit> no the os has an entropy pool that is seeded by network/disk/user interaction
3643 2011-07-02 21:33:23 <sipa> phantomcircuit: -nolisten seems to work
3644 2011-07-02 21:33:55 <xtalmath> phantomcircuit: yes, thats what is used to generate /dev/random
3645 2011-07-02 21:34:20 <xtalmath> so I dont know what openssl's own internal entropypool is based on
3646 2011-07-02 21:34:22 <sipa> on systems where it exists, i'm sure openssl uses /dev/random
3647 2011-07-02 21:34:41 <xtalmath> yeah
3648 2011-07-02 21:35:12 <phantomcircuit> it uses mersene twister iirc
3649 2011-07-02 21:35:19 <andyfletcher> munin is a good way at looking at the entropy pool on linux
3650 2011-07-02 21:35:19 <phantomcircuit> i spelled that wrong but close enough
3651 2011-07-02 21:35:54 <cuddlefish> working on Carrot's 'escape pod' so I got thinking about proper entropy generation
3652 2011-07-02 21:35:59 <cacheson> phantomcircuit: merseine twister is deterministic, it's not a source of entropy
3653 2011-07-02 21:36:31 <phantomcircuit> cacheson, it's often used as a prng around an entropy pool
3654 2011-07-02 21:36:36 <cacheson> right
3655 2011-07-02 21:36:42 <cuddlefish> phantomcircuit: There're some snazzy Linux drivers that seed randomness from a soundcard
3656 2011-07-02 21:36:49 <phantomcircuit> so you pool entropy and then run it through twisted 1:1
3657 2011-07-02 21:37:05 puhc has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3658 2011-07-02 21:37:12 <cuddlefish> phantomcircuit: you might as well hash it if you're going 1-1
3659 2011-07-02 21:37:27 <phantomcircuit> i forget why but hashing isn't a good idea
3660 2011-07-02 21:37:39 <phantomcircuit> also the linux kernel prng is slow as fuck
3661 2011-07-02 21:37:41 puhc has joined
3662 2011-07-02 21:37:54 <phantomcircuit> cuddlefish, audio-entropyd
3663 2011-07-02 21:38:10 <phantomcircuit> there's also video-entropyd and time-entropyd
3664 2011-07-02 21:38:16 <cuddlefish> mmmyup
3665 2011-07-02 21:38:28 <phantomcircuit> http://www.vanheusden.com/ved/
3666 2011-07-02 21:38:35 <xtalmath> some processors have built-in TRNG's
3667 2011-07-02 21:38:51 <phantomcircuit> xtalmath, only one i know of is VIA
3668 2011-07-02 21:38:58 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3669 2011-07-02 21:39:03 <xtalmath> yep, im amazed theres not more of them
3670 2011-07-02 21:39:11 <xtalmath> I thought one of the pentiums had it too
3671 2011-07-02 21:39:12 NickelBot has joined
3672 2011-07-02 21:39:13 <phantomcircuit> yeah it's dumb as fuck
3673 2011-07-02 21:39:19 shLONG has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3674 2011-07-02 21:39:25 <phantomcircuit> lol there was a pentium with one
3675 2011-07-02 21:39:30 <phantomcircuit> turned out to not be random though
3676 2011-07-02 21:39:31 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
3677 2011-07-02 21:39:32 <phantomcircuit> oops
3678 2011-07-02 21:39:49 <cuddlefish> phantomcircuit: you can get super-expensive quantum RNGs
3679 2011-07-02 21:39:50 Nesetalis has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3680 2011-07-02 21:39:57 <xtalmath> but then again, perhaps lots of CPU's do and we only refer to them as the VIA trng, like we refer to x86
3681 2011-07-02 21:40:15 <phantomcircuit> cuddlefish, $$$
3682 2011-07-02 21:40:26 <cuddlefish> phantomcircuit: yep
3683 2011-07-02 21:40:30 <phantomcircuit> xtalmath, no only VIA supports them
3684 2011-07-02 21:40:37 <xtalmath> chaotic waterwheel trumps all
3685 2011-07-02 21:40:38 <phantomcircuit> i suspect because it's harder than you would think
3686 2011-07-02 21:40:54 <xtalmath> of course it is very hard
3687 2011-07-02 21:41:03 <xtalmath> and temperature sensitive
3688 2011-07-02 21:41:07 MetaV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3689 2011-07-02 21:42:02 <cuddlefish> phantomcircuit: Basically two traces running VERY close by eachother, put microamps through one and get nanoamps out the other (tunneling)
3690 2011-07-02 21:42:39 <phantomcircuit> cuddlefish, yes but you have to shield the traces and guarantee constant supply
3691 2011-07-02 21:42:44 <phantomcircuit> which isn't trivial
3692 2011-07-02 21:42:45 <cuddlefish> phantomcircuit: yeah
3693 2011-07-02 21:42:50 <cuddlefish> that's why they're expensive :P
3694 2011-07-02 21:43:10 <cuddlefish> and maybe the universe's RNG isn't seeded right
3695 2011-07-02 21:43:15 <b4epoche_> irrelevant (I think) but (I think)  bool CKeyStore::AddKey(const CKey& key) in keystore.cpp
3696 2011-07-02 21:43:22 <b4epoche_> s/but/bug
3697 2011-07-02 21:43:41 <phantomcircuit> what is it?
3698 2011-07-02 21:43:53 <xtalmath> a but bug is one that bites you in the ass
3699 2011-07-02 21:43:56 <b4epoche_> doesn't return anything
3700 2011-07-02 21:44:27 devon_hillard has joined
3701 2011-07-02 21:45:07 <cuddlefish> soooomeone ignored compiler warnings >>
3702 2011-07-02 21:45:15 warpi has quit (Quit: Lämnar)
3703 2011-07-02 21:45:24 <phantomcircuit> cuddlefish, build bitcoin with -Wall
3704 2011-07-02 21:45:26 <phantomcircuit> laugh
3705 2011-07-02 21:45:32 <BlueMatt> whats wallet.dat location on osx again?
3706 2011-07-02 21:45:45 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
3707 2011-07-02 21:45:45 <gribble> 134450
3708 2011-07-02 21:45:48 <b4epoche_> for cocoabitcoin or wx?
3709 2011-07-02 21:45:52 <BlueMatt> wx
3710 2011-07-02 21:45:53 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: should be in .bitcoin, no?
3711 2011-07-02 21:46:02 <BlueMatt> where is .bitcoin is my question
3712 2011-07-02 21:46:03 Nesetalis has joined
3713 2011-07-02 21:46:05 <b4epoche_> ~/Library/Application Support/bitcoin
3714 2011-07-02 21:46:08 <BlueMatt> thanks
3715 2011-07-02 21:46:12 <diki> lolwut?
3716 2011-07-02 21:46:16 <b4epoche_> but for mine it's .bitcoin
3717 2011-07-02 21:46:21 <diki> bluemat...you dont know where bitcoin is on windows?
3718 2011-07-02 21:46:22 <BlueMatt> dont do that
3719 2011-07-02 21:46:50 <b4epoche_> yea, I meant to change that
3720 2011-07-02 21:47:10 rich has joined
3721 2011-07-02 21:47:16 * b4epoche_ needs to figure out how to do that...  I guess just hardcode datadir, eh?
3722 2011-07-02 21:47:38 <BlueMatt> no, why did you change it in the first place?
3723 2011-07-02 21:47:44 <BlueMatt> leave it in Application Support
3724 2011-07-02 21:47:49 <BlueMatt> as all other mac apps do
3725 2011-07-02 21:47:55 <b4epoche_> I didn't change anything
3726 2011-07-02 21:48:01 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
3727 2011-07-02 21:48:06 <BlueMatt> I thought you had dont it in the client
3728 2011-07-02 21:48:28 <b4epoche_> not sure why it's there in wx
3729 2011-07-02 21:48:42 <BlueMatt> why wahts there?
3730 2011-07-02 21:49:09 <b4epoche_> ah, #ifdef __WXMAC_OSX__
3731 2011-07-02 21:49:57 <b4epoche_> should I change that to #if defined( __WXMAC_OSX__) || defined(__MAC_OSX__)
3732 2011-07-02 21:50:21 <BlueMatt> well all ifdef __WX...__ stuff should be renamed
3733 2011-07-02 21:50:49 <b4epoche_> yea, but that should probably be done all at once
3734 2011-07-02 21:50:59 <BlueMatt> yep
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3737 2011-07-02 21:58:02 <Joric> UukGoblin, are you stil there?
3738 2011-07-02 21:58:42 <Joric> UukGoblin, extracted 31755 bytes of binary data from your QR code don't know what it can be
3739 2011-07-02 21:59:31 <Joric> private key of a wallet with 1 BTC inside? :)
3740 2011-07-02 21:59:44 ThomasV has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3741 2011-07-02 22:00:04 <BlueMatt> what do people think of this readme on wallet encryption: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/d774a2e8bdb83c9de873aa1afc942f5d6c47d163
3742 2011-07-02 22:01:31 tuoppi has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3743 2011-07-02 22:01:48 <BlueMatt> newer one: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/d774a2e8bdb83c9de873aa1afc942f5d6c47d163
3744 2011-07-02 22:02:03 <BlueMatt> ...oh
3745 2011-07-02 22:02:36 AStove has quit ()
3746 2011-07-02 22:05:20 <nus> BlueMatt, the question is why it's not enabled by default?
3747 2011-07-02 22:05:37 <gim> mmm, if only the backup could be done from the gui....
3748 2011-07-02 22:05:49 <BlueMatt> "If you lose this passphrase,you will lose access to spend all of the bitcoins in your wallet"
3749 2011-07-02 22:05:55 <BlueMatt> nus: thats why ^
3750 2011-07-02 22:06:25 <BlueMatt> gim: yes...but sadly it cant yet...it wouldnt be hard to program if you go do it
3751 2011-07-02 22:06:25 <nus> BlueMatt, so? same happens if you loose your wallet
3752 2011-07-02 22:06:32 <BlueMatt> gim: but its really low on the todo list
3753 2011-07-02 22:06:58 <BlueMatt> nus: new users will enter any password get a bitcoin, and come back in a month when they actually have a use for it only to have forgotten their password
3754 2011-07-02 22:07:01 <iz> nus: you might not really be ready to make a passphrase when you first create a wallet.dat
3755 2011-07-02 22:07:54 <gim> BlueMatt: most users will stop reading at the 3rd paragraph
3756 2011-07-02 22:08:07 <BlueMatt> gim: most users wont read the readme at all
3757 2011-07-02 22:08:12 <gim> true :)
3758 2011-07-02 22:08:29 <xtalmath> what would the metallic value of each euro coin be?
3759 2011-07-02 22:08:34 <BlueMatt> thats why its also in all caps in the gui when they enter their pass
3760 2011-07-02 22:08:54 WildSoil has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3761 2011-07-02 22:09:57 <kika> Diablo-D3: hello
3762 2011-07-02 22:09:59 <nus> BlueMatt, is better for them to come back, operate some more, and then, suddenly to find their wallet's keys were leaked?
3763 2011-07-02 22:10:21 <BlueMatt> nus: yes
3764 2011-07-02 22:10:39 <BlueMatt> nus: because the number of people that will happen to compared to the lost-pass case, is very, very small
3765 2011-07-02 22:10:53 <Diablo-D3> kika: hi
3766 2011-07-02 22:10:55 <xtalmath> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/04/euro_coin_recyc.html LOL
3767 2011-07-02 22:11:17 <nus> nah, just wait until there circulates more bc-wallet targeted trojans
3768 2011-07-02 22:11:31 <nus> s/circulates/circulate/
3769 2011-07-02 22:11:37 <xtalmath> reminds me of the old belgian frank days, when at a certain time the copper of cents was worth more than their official value, and people just melted their coins and sold them to metal dealers
3770 2011-07-02 22:12:04 undersco2 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3771 2011-07-02 22:12:32 <kika> Diablo-D3: ati catalyst 11.4 usted to work with my 6990 card on my linux box, but not it doesnt work anymore, when i reboot and reinstall the whole system, it just crashes on boot when trying to load the driver weird
3772 2011-07-02 22:12:48 <Diablo-D3> kika: weird.
3773 2011-07-02 22:12:52 <gim> users might want an unencrypted wallet on their box and make a encrypted backup
3774 2011-07-02 22:13:01 <gim> are there instructions to do that?
3775 2011-07-02 22:13:14 <kika> Diablo-D3: maybe my card burn out?
3776 2011-07-02 22:13:21 <gim> actually i'm in this case
3777 2011-07-02 22:13:22 <Diablo-D3> gim: .... the instructions would be the same for any other encrypted backup
3778 2011-07-02 22:13:24 <nus> And most loudly complaining users would be that lost more significant sums
3779 2011-07-02 22:13:30 <Diablo-D3> kika: that would suck
3780 2011-07-02 22:13:40 <kika> Diablo-D3: it works with catalyst 11.6 btw but i cant get the amd sdk for opencl to work with catalyst 11.6
3781 2011-07-02 22:13:53 <Diablo-D3> kika: on windows or linux
3782 2011-07-02 22:14:01 <kika> Diablo-D3: linux
3783 2011-07-02 22:14:10 <Diablo-D3> kika: 2.4 works fine with 11.6
3784 2011-07-02 22:14:14 <kika> Diablo-D3: the amd sdk opencl sdk says it needs 11.4
3785 2011-07-02 22:14:21 <gim> Diablo-D3: the point is that the procedure might be rather complicated
3786 2011-07-02 22:14:58 <Diablo-D3> gim: depends on your backup software
3787 2011-07-02 22:14:58 <kika> Diablo-D3: do you have the instructions to install 2.4 on catalyst 11.6 ?
3788 2011-07-02 22:14:58 <Diablo-D3> kika: and no, you need at least 11.2 for 2.4
3789 2011-07-02 22:14:59 abragin has quit ()
3790 2011-07-02 22:14:59 <Diablo-D3> kika: instructions? you just untar it, do the icd-reg step, and set your LD_LIBRARY_PATH
3791 2011-07-02 22:15:04 <kika> Diablo-D3: are you sure it works? you tested 2.4 with 11.6 ?
3792 2011-07-02 22:15:17 <Diablo-D3> Im on 11.6 right now, 2.1 and 2.4 both work
3793 2011-07-02 22:15:26 <kika> Diablo-D3: i already did that however i got some errors when trying to test the opencl samples
3794 2011-07-02 22:15:46 <kika> Diablo-D3: okay ill be back tonight and re-install the whole system using catalyst 11.6 and ill let you know to install 2.4
3795 2011-07-02 22:15:47 <gim> Diablo-D3: the backup software i talk about is bitcoin client
3796 2011-07-02 22:15:53 <kika> Diablo-D3: thanks, good bye, i need to leave
3797 2011-07-02 22:16:42 <Diablo-D3> gim: you dont backup the wallet any differently than any other file
3798 2011-07-02 22:16:49 <Diablo-D3> kika: seeya
3799 2011-07-02 22:17:05 devon_hillard has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3800 2011-07-02 22:17:27 <gim> Diablo-D3: i think you missed the beginning of the conversation
3801 2011-07-02 22:17:48 <nus> Diablo-D3, you'd expect a general user to setup an encrypted backup scheme?
3802 2011-07-02 22:20:21 <Diablo-D3> nus: if they dont want people to gank their shit? yes.
3803 2011-07-02 22:21:03 <gim> well, in fact users should not ask for what i asked, so never mind
3804 2011-07-02 22:22:36 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  any suggestions for pulled the pub/priv key pairs...  they seem to be stored in mapPubKeys and mapKeys
3805 2011-07-02 22:23:29 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: mapPubKeys maps addresses (well Hash160s) to pubkeys and mapKeys maps pubkeys to privkeys
3806 2011-07-02 22:23:32 <BlueMatt> what are you asking about?
3807 2011-07-02 22:24:00 <b4epoche_> trying out making QR codes with them
3808 2011-07-02 22:24:23 <BlueMatt> well call GetPrivKey like it should as that will change in crypto
3809 2011-07-02 22:24:35 <BlueMatt> dont access internal datastructures like mapKeys or mapPubKeys
3810 2011-07-02 22:24:54 <b4epoche_> "well call GetPrivKey like it should as that will change in crypto"
3811 2011-07-02 22:24:55 <b4epoche_> ?
3812 2011-07-02 22:25:07 <BlueMatt> keys wont be in mapKeys
3813 2011-07-02 22:25:18 <BlueMatt> in crypto
3814 2011-07-02 22:25:30 <b4epoche_> yea, I plan to call GetPrivKeys but I'm not sure what to pass it
3815 2011-07-02 22:25:37 <BlueMatt> a pubkey
3816 2011-07-02 22:26:01 <b4epoche_> which means I need to use mapPubKeys, no?
3817 2011-07-02 22:26:15 <jrmithdobbs> i feel dirty
3818 2011-07-02 22:26:18 <jrmithdobbs> i just bought like paper and writing implements
3819 2011-07-02 22:26:23 <jrmithdobbs> who the fuck has this shit lying around their house any more
3820 2011-07-02 22:26:37 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/220/files#diff-9 for how to do it properly
3821 2011-07-02 22:26:41 <b4epoche_> people with kids in grade school
3822 2011-07-02 22:26:42 <cacheson> I don't think I own any blank paper anymore
3823 2011-07-02 22:26:55 <cacheson> I'm down to scavenging when I need something to write on
3824 2011-07-02 22:27:24 noagendamarket has joined
3825 2011-07-02 22:28:02 MartianW has joined
3826 2011-07-02 22:28:11 MartianW has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3827 2011-07-02 22:28:51 conjre has joined
3828 2011-07-02 22:29:01 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3829 2011-07-02 22:29:21 <Joric> upnp has opened a shitload of ports for me - 8 ports, mostly 10xx, is it normal?
3830 2011-07-02 22:29:29 <BlueMatt> no
3831 2011-07-02 22:29:32 <BlueMatt> thats not bitcoin
3832 2011-07-02 22:30:01 <Joric> what's that???
3833 2011-07-02 22:30:06 <BlueMatt> unless you are talking about the local port used to make 8 outgoing connections
3834 2011-07-02 22:30:09 <BlueMatt> which arent really open
3835 2011-07-02 22:30:12 <BlueMatt> and not opened by upnp
3836 2011-07-02 22:30:13 <jrmithdobbs> cacheson: i have like half a ream of printer paper i bought (stole) 10 years ago
3837 2011-07-02 22:30:15 <gim> yes i think so
3838 2011-07-02 22:30:16 <jrmithdobbs> left
3839 2011-07-02 22:30:25 blishchrot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3840 2011-07-02 22:30:37 <cacheson> jrmithdobbs: I was using printer paper, but I haven't had a working printer for a couple years now
3841 2011-07-02 22:31:00 <jrmithdobbs> cacheson: i just bought another one cause gf is doing school stuff and i've had to print some legal crap lately
3842 2011-07-02 22:31:47 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  +void static GetWalletDump(map<uint160,CKeyDump> &mapDump)  ?
3843 2011-07-02 22:32:13 <BlueMatt> that patch dumps wallets, take a look at where it dumps keys
3844 2011-07-02 22:32:16 <BlueMatt> and copy that stuff
3845 2011-07-02 22:32:34 <b4epoche_> yea
3846 2011-07-02 22:32:39 <Joric> what the hell is 49152 tcp
3847 2011-07-02 22:32:55 <BlueMatt> an outoing port most likely
3848 2011-07-02 22:33:01 xtalmath has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3849 2011-07-02 22:33:05 <BlueMatt> where are you seeing it?
3850 2011-07-02 22:33:39 NickelBot has joined
3851 2011-07-02 22:34:36 <Joric> iptables -L -n input chain
3852 2011-07-02 22:35:33 <BlueMatt> what is your iptables setup?
3853 2011-07-02 22:35:39 <BlueMatt> ie what router is this being executed on?
3854 2011-07-02 22:35:45 <Joric> iftop shows 8 outcoming 8333 with random incoming
3855 2011-07-02 22:35:58 <BlueMatt> outcoming?
3856 2011-07-02 22:36:03 <BlueMatt> thats an oxymoron
3857 2011-07-02 22:37:03 caedes has joined
3858 2011-07-02 22:37:11 <Joric> BlueMatt, http://pastebin.com/zQMmBZCh
3859 2011-07-02 22:37:19 <BlueMatt> 8 outgoint to 8333 and random local port is exactly what bitcoin does
3860 2011-07-02 22:37:32 <BlueMatt> yea, that is bitcoin
3861 2011-07-02 22:37:36 <BlueMatt> its not opening ports
3862 2011-07-02 22:37:44 <BlueMatt> that is just how iftop will show connections
3863 2011-07-02 22:37:53 <BlueMatt> it doesnt differentiate between outoing and incoming
3864 2011-07-02 22:37:57 <Joric> upnp should open ports
3865 2011-07-02 22:38:06 <BlueMatt> but iftop doesnt show open ports
3866 2011-07-02 22:38:12 <BlueMatt> nor does iptables on the host
3867 2011-07-02 22:38:18 bitanarchy has joined
3868 2011-07-02 22:38:34 blishchrot has joined
3869 2011-07-02 22:39:23 <jrmithdobbs> iftop sucks, use iptraf to get some useful output
3870 2011-07-02 22:39:27 <cuddlefish> Joric: it's not opening ports locally that counts, it's opening ports on your NAT device
3871 2011-07-02 22:39:51 <Joric> it's the nat device
3872 2011-07-02 22:40:08 <Joric> soho router
3873 2011-07-02 22:40:21 <Joric> i'm 10.1.1.8
3874 2011-07-02 22:41:16 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: you're reading the output wrong, is the gist of things
3875 2011-07-02 22:41:24 MetaV has joined
3876 2011-07-02 22:41:57 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
3877 2011-07-02 22:42:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134458 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 613 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 12 hours, 58 minutes, and 7 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1589991.25184017
3878 2011-07-02 22:42:37 <Joric> http://pastebin.com/FEXzud3w - MINIUPNPD chain
3879 2011-07-02 22:42:57 <Joric> well everything seems to be in order )
3880 2011-07-02 22:43:25 <Joric> it's not opening 8333 it's opening random ports after the initial handshake
3881 2011-07-02 22:43:33 stuhood has joined
3882 2011-07-02 22:43:35 <cuddlefish> Joric: No, it's not opening ports.
3883 2011-07-02 22:43:45 <cuddlefish> Joric: those are outgoing connection
3884 2011-07-02 22:43:47 <Joric> according to upnpd it does
3885 2011-07-02 22:43:54 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: um
3886 2011-07-02 22:43:57 <BlueMatt> you need to read a network primer
3887 2011-07-02 22:43:58 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: read that output again
3888 2011-07-02 22:44:04 <jrmithdobbs> those are all udp
3889 2011-07-02 22:44:04 osmosis has joined
3890 2011-07-02 22:44:10 <jrmithdobbs> there is exactly zero possibility that is bitcoin
3891 2011-07-02 22:44:26 <dsockwell> is this on a desktop?
3892 2011-07-02 22:44:36 <Joric> this is on a router
3893 2011-07-02 22:44:38 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: sure you didn't open skype or something?
3894 2011-07-02 22:44:48 <Joric> desktop is wide open )
3895 2011-07-02 22:44:54 Strogge has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3896 2011-07-02 22:45:09 <Joric> no, i don't have a skype, just a browser with a shitload of tabs
3897 2011-07-02 22:45:20 osmosis has quit (Client Quit)
3898 2011-07-02 22:45:27 <dsockwell> ugh.
3899 2011-07-02 22:45:31 <cuddlefish> Joric: any tabs with flesh in them?
3900 2011-07-02 22:45:35 <cuddlefish> ... heh, flash
3901 2011-07-02 22:45:36 <dsockwell> my bitcoin daemon has been stuck on block 114754 all night.
3902 2011-07-02 22:45:37 <Joric> closed
3903 2011-07-02 22:46:00 <dsockwell> at least according to RPC getinfo
3904 2011-07-02 22:47:00 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: none of that came from bitcoin
3905 2011-07-02 22:47:15 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: something else, that maybe you don't know about, is running on your network
3906 2011-07-02 22:47:21 <jrmithdobbs> find it.
3907 2011-07-02 22:47:26 <jrmithdobbs> (before your wallet gets stolen)
3908 2011-07-02 22:47:47 <Joric> i have USE_UPNP:=0 in makefile shouldn't it be :=1? oddly enough gui has this option
3909 2011-07-02 22:48:00 <Joric> i.e. the checkbox
3910 2011-07-02 22:48:18 <Joric> don't know maybe it's just for fun
3911 2011-07-02 22:48:54 <jrmithdobbs> no
3912 2011-07-02 22:49:00 <dsockwell> here's an interesting thing i found in my logs:
3913 2011-07-02 22:49:02 <dsockwell> http://pastebin.com/CSEqVuh8
3914 2011-07-02 22:49:24 <MrSam> :P
3915 2011-07-02 22:49:24 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  those classes use CSecret...  does that just duplicate CPrivKey (atm)?
3916 2011-07-02 22:49:46 <Joric> speaking of logs, my debug.log is 200 megs already
3917 2011-07-02 22:49:59 xtalmath has joined
3918 2011-07-02 22:50:02 <Joric> how to disable it?
3919 2011-07-02 22:50:05 cuddlefish has quit (Quit: Bye)
3920 2011-07-02 22:50:10 <b4epoche_> I remember seeing code that should trim that
3921 2011-07-02 22:50:42 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: no, its smaller and is only the privkey part of the privkey instead of all the openssl crap
3922 2011-07-02 22:50:50 * dsockwell tries deleting his wallet and starting over
3923 2011-07-02 22:51:08 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: just restart bitcoin, it gets trunc'ed
3924 2011-07-02 22:51:16 <cacheson> ugh
3925 2011-07-02 22:51:38 <cacheson> american express no longer has an 8-character maximum password length, but they're still stupid about passwords
3926 2011-07-02 22:51:40 rich has quit (Quit: rich)
3927 2011-07-02 22:51:56 <cacheson> "Your new password cannot have any spaces and will not be case sensitive."
3928 2011-07-02 22:52:01 <cacheson> derrrrrp
3929 2011-07-02 22:52:14 <jrmithdobbs> lol
3930 2011-07-02 22:52:16 <BlueMatt> guess what, they dont hash your pass
3931 2011-07-02 22:52:30 <jrmithdobbs> or there's no way they'd care
3932 2011-07-02 22:52:32 <BlueMatt> what kind of shitty website doenst hash passes these days, and a financial one too
3933 2011-07-02 22:52:32 <cacheson> BlueMatt: oh, even better
3934 2011-07-02 22:52:36 <dsockwell> uh
3935 2011-07-02 22:52:39 <BlueMatt> I mean seriously, wtf?
3936 2011-07-02 22:52:42 <dsockwell> they can check it before they hash
3937 2011-07-02 22:52:55 <dsockwell> if you're basing this no-hash claim on being picky about the password's content
3938 2011-07-02 22:53:03 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: they can, but why would they have any limits if they do hash
3939 2011-07-02 22:53:10 <BlueMatt> except for like it cant be 10000 chars long
3940 2011-07-02 22:53:18 <dsockwell> to stop people from taking their hash database and breaking it
3941 2011-07-02 22:53:19 <jrmithdobbs> dsockwell: except there's no reason to limit passwords like that if you are hashing (and even if you're not there's no reason, but still)
3942 2011-07-02 22:53:28 <BlueMatt> well they can force your pass better
3943 2011-07-02 22:53:31 <stuhood> dsockwell: ...
3944 2011-07-02 22:53:33 <BlueMatt> but instead they force it worse
3945 2011-07-02 22:53:40 <Joric> guys with mtgox database bruteforced a ton of random 8+ char mixed case passwords, i was impressed for life
3946 2011-07-02 22:53:47 <BlueMatt> no website which hashes a pass has any reason to do that
3947 2011-07-02 22:53:51 <Joric> don't know what hardware did they use
3948 2011-07-02 22:53:53 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: no,  he did not
3949 2011-07-02 22:53:58 <dsockwell> that's just dumb
3950 2011-07-02 22:54:08 <UukGoblin> Joric, there's only 2704 bytes of data there
3951 2011-07-02 22:54:10 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: the ones that have been found so far are rand UP TO 8 char, or NOT RANDOM over 8 char
3952 2011-07-02 22:54:12 <dsockwell> do you know how many people would use their usernames as passwords if they could?
3953 2011-07-02 22:54:16 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: big difference
3954 2011-07-02 22:54:16 <Joric> UukGoblin, got it
3955 2011-07-02 22:54:25 <UukGoblin> Joric, pastebin it ;-]
3956 2011-07-02 22:54:25 <cacheson> they also heavily restrict punctuation chars
3957 2011-07-02 22:54:31 <cacheson> wrong way to stop SQL injection, guys
3958 2011-07-02 22:54:45 <Joric> UukGoblin, its completely random and different every time )
3959 2011-07-02 22:54:47 <cacheson> no *, no @, no ;
3960 2011-07-02 22:54:47 <dsockwell> they're doing the right thing
3961 2011-07-02 22:54:47 <UukGoblin> Joric, it should be all alphanumeric characters
3962 2011-07-02 22:54:52 <Joric> UukGoblin, okay
3963 2011-07-02 22:54:53 <BlueMatt> lol, I mean seriously, what kind of shitty site are they running over there?
3964 2011-07-02 22:55:00 <jrmithdobbs> cacheson: they need to be brought up on criminal negligence charges tbqh
3965 2011-07-02 22:55:00 <dsockwell> that's not to say they aren't being idiots about it
3966 2011-07-02 22:55:08 <BlueMatt> is it a financial institution or a lemonade stand?
3967 2011-07-02 22:55:33 <dsockwell> so no insight into my awesome bitcoind crash before i nuke the installation?
3968 2011-07-02 22:55:36 <jrmithdobbs> cacheson: i'm sick of these people who leak financial institution's shit getting pound me in the ass prison time and the financial institutions that fucked up horribly and caused it in the first place not even getting a slap on the wrist
3969 2011-07-02 22:55:37 <dsockwell> er, the wallet
3970 2011-07-02 22:55:47 <cacheson> jrmithdobbs: sounds about right.  when I first signed up I couldn't figure out why I couldn't log in... turns out my password had been truncated to 8 characters
3971 2011-07-02 22:55:47 <BlueMatt> what crash?
3972 2011-07-02 22:55:47 <Joric> UukGoblin, i'll try to finetune libdecodeqr it uses opencv i've had some opencv experience lately
3973 2011-07-02 22:56:04 <dsockwell> BlueMatt: http://pastebin.com/CSEqVuh8
3974 2011-07-02 22:56:08 <dsockwell> there's the log i retained about it
3975 2011-07-02 22:56:12 <UukGoblin> Joric, cool, thanks for trying ;-]
3976 2011-07-02 22:56:12 <Joric> UukGoblin, it's just a lens distortion, but very nasty i can't fix it manually )
3977 2011-07-02 22:56:21 <jrmithdobbs> cacheson: discover's isn't quite that bad but they limit char values to prevent injection
3978 2011-07-02 22:56:33 <UukGoblin> Joric, it was printed on paper with a 600dpi laser printer and then scanned at 1200dpi
3979 2011-07-02 22:56:34 <jrmithdobbs> cacheson: i have another provider who still limits to 8 chars
3980 2011-07-02 22:56:37 <jrmithdobbs> cacheson: want to kill them
3981 2011-07-02 22:56:42 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: odd
3982 2011-07-02 22:56:45 <UukGoblin> Joric, 3.5cm on paper ;-]
3983 2011-07-02 22:57:04 <Joric> UukGoblin, printed? but it warped as hell :)
3984 2011-07-02 22:57:16 <jrmithdobbs> cacheson: bank of america is a dispicable company, but at least their online banking shit is sane
3985 2011-07-02 22:57:26 <dsockwell> BlueMatt: i should mention that i'm running the db in a ramdisk because the sync i/o kills me
3986 2011-07-02 22:57:32 <dsockwell> linux tmpfs
3987 2011-07-02 22:57:49 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  while I'm a C++ n00b, does "class CSecret : public CPrivKey{};" basically just dupe CPrivKey?
3988 2011-07-02 22:57:58 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r389d6a5 / (daemon/settings.example.js lib/settings.js): Settings updated, mostly comments, but added new "connect" setting. (+6 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/lLK4lF
3989 2011-07-02 22:58:03 <b4epoche_> s/does/doesn't
3990 2011-07-02 22:58:08 <cacheson> hopefully I can just get these paid off soon and dump their shitty site
3991 2011-07-02 22:58:09 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: interesting, I suppose more load testing on high i/o capable systems needs done
3992 2011-07-02 22:58:34 <dsockwell> so now my db won't advance past that block
3993 2011-07-02 22:58:36 <dsockwell> is my issue
3994 2011-07-02 22:58:46 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: i'm ablo to read v40 qr codes printed on a b&w consumer laserjet blown up to 110% original size and read them back in with my phone (with M ecc)
3995 2011-07-02 22:58:51 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: might it have been doing a reorg at the time?
3996 2011-07-02 22:59:02 conjre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3997 2011-07-02 22:59:02 <dsockwell> i'm afraid that part of the log has been trunc'd out
3998 2011-07-02 22:59:03 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: ooo, can you ul your .bitcoin folder then?
3999 2011-07-02 22:59:14 <dsockwell> sure
4000 2011-07-02 22:59:20 <dsockwell> where can i put a tgz?
4001 2011-07-02 22:59:29 <BlueMatt> any file-upload site
4002 2011-07-02 22:59:36 <dsockwell> like those exist anymore
4003 2011-07-02 22:59:38 <BlueMatt> dropbox, megaupload, etc?
4004 2011-07-02 22:59:49 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: without having to scan them back into digital and read them off a lcd
4005 2011-07-02 23:00:01 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: what'd you use to create the qr codes?
4006 2011-07-02 23:00:04 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, how big are they on paper?
4007 2011-07-02 23:00:08 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, qrencode
4008 2011-07-02 23:00:27 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: sec i've got some with dummy data, i'll just show you
4009 2011-07-02 23:00:47 <jrmithdobbs> (well, not dummy data, actually they're debian-broken-openssl-prng-generated ec keys ;p)
4010 2011-07-02 23:00:47 <JFK911> why even print them, you can read them off a screen
4011 2011-07-02 23:00:55 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, I'm curious at how densely you can pack it up on paper
4012 2011-07-02 23:01:19 MetaV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
4013 2011-07-02 23:01:28 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: my experiments say v40 isn't the way to go
4014 2011-07-02 23:01:39 rethaw1 has joined
4015 2011-07-02 23:01:46 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: v30 2 per side at M ecc holds more data
4016 2011-07-02 23:02:06 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, well the problem I seem to be having is with alignment
4017 2011-07-02 23:02:23 <UukGoblin> 2 per side... that's huge ;-]
4018 2011-07-02 23:02:32 <UukGoblin> that's maybe 3kb per page?
4019 2011-07-02 23:02:45 <jrmithdobbs> uh no
4020 2011-07-02 23:02:51 <jrmithdobbs> look how much v30 holds ;p
4021 2011-07-02 23:03:01 <jrmithdobbs> that's about 12-20k/page
4022 2011-07-02 23:03:14 <jrmithdobbs> iirc
4023 2011-07-02 23:03:19 <dsockwell> bluematt: http://76.73.57.52/bitcoinerror.tgz
4024 2011-07-02 23:03:27 <dsockwell> i really thought i'd turned that httpd off
4025 2011-07-02 23:03:37 <UukGoblin> in my v40 I was able to store 2.7kB of alphanumeric data (not even binary, base64 encoded)
4026 2011-07-02 23:03:42 <UukGoblin> which is about 2kb binary
4027 2011-07-02 23:03:52 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: you're doin it wrong
4028 2011-07-02 23:03:54 <diki> v40?
4029 2011-07-02 23:03:55 <dsockwell> also if anyone wants my wallet.dat they can have it
4030 2011-07-02 23:04:01 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: don't store base64 encoded binary data
4031 2011-07-02 23:04:05 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, qrencode doesn't work with binary data
4032 2011-07-02 23:04:14 <UukGoblin> and I didn't feel like fixing it
4033 2011-07-02 23:04:16 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: right, you want to store ascii
4034 2011-07-02 23:04:23 <jrmithdobbs> you get more out of the format storing ascii
4035 2011-07-02 23:04:27 <jrmithdobbs> with no special chars
4036 2011-07-02 23:04:38 <UukGoblin> base64 is ascii
4037 2011-07-02 23:04:46 <jrmithdobbs> alphanum ascii i should say
4038 2011-07-02 23:05:13 <UukGoblin> base64 is alphanum ascii
4039 2011-07-02 23:05:18 <UukGoblin> with a +/= here and there
4040 2011-07-02 23:05:28 <jrmithdobbs> yup and that matters with qrencoding
4041 2011-07-02 23:05:50 traviscj has joined
4042 2011-07-02 23:05:52 <dsockwell> so if I qrencode http://lmgtfy?q=this+that
4043 2011-07-02 23:05:53 <JFK911> qr codes are pretty weak
4044 2011-07-02 23:05:55 <dsockwell> that's bad?
4045 2011-07-02 23:06:03 <JFK911> aztec is pretty hoppin
4046 2011-07-02 23:06:39 <UukGoblin> jrmithdobbs, http://www.denso-wave.com/qrcode/vertable4-e.html <- that here says v40 can store up to 2,953 bytes of binary with L ecc
4047 2011-07-02 23:07:09 <UukGoblin> and v30 is 1,732 bytes
4048 2011-07-02 23:07:27 <jrmithdobbs> oh i was able to get 4/side readable with v30 i think is what it was
4049 2011-07-02 23:07:49 <UukGoblin> ok that gives about 12kB
4050 2011-07-02 23:07:53 HopsNBarley has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4051 2011-07-02 23:07:56 <jrmithdobbs> 12-20K is what i said ;p
4052 2011-07-02 23:07:57 <jrmithdobbs> heh
4053 2011-07-02 23:07:59 <jrmithdobbs> but ya
4054 2011-07-02 23:08:06 <dsockwell> BlueMatt: have you got the file?
4055 2011-07-02 23:08:17 <dsockwell> i'd like to delete it pretty soon.
4056 2011-07-02 23:08:23 <jrmithdobbs> i destroyed the v30 tests cause they had live data on them
4057 2011-07-02 23:08:41 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: http://home.jrbobdobbs.org/mith/qr-examples.jpg
4058 2011-07-02 23:08:42 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: yep, got it, Ill take a look when I get a chance
4059 2011-07-02 23:09:01 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: no s: http://home.jrbobdobbs.org/mith/qr-example.jpg
4060 2011-07-02 23:09:27 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: that's v40 output by libqrencode and blown up to 110% size using preview.app before printing
4061 2011-07-02 23:09:34 <dsockwell> in the meantime i'll start over and see if i can reproduce it
4062 2011-07-02 23:09:46 <UukGoblin> mhm
4063 2011-07-02 23:09:51 <rethaw1> jrmithdobbs: link doesn't work?
4064 2011-07-02 23:09:52 <jrmithdobbs> UukGoblin: and is readable (with proper lighting) on my htc evo using the stock google barcode scanner
4065 2011-07-02 23:09:58 <jrmithdobbs> rethaw1: second link
4066 2011-07-02 23:10:31 <JFK911> this photo could have been scanned had you put a thought into it jrmithdobbs
4067 2011-07-02 23:10:50 <JFK911> i think the shakycam syndrome hurts it most
4068 2011-07-02 23:10:55 <Joric> jrmithdobbs, what's there? a private key + all addresses? )
4069 2011-07-02 23:11:14 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: a dump of private keys btc address encoded plus account name
4070 2011-07-02 23:11:15 <Joric> i mean how many keypairs are there
4071 2011-07-02 23:11:28 <jrmithdobbs> let me scan real quick, i forget which set of tests this was
4072 2011-07-02 23:11:36 <UukGoblin> JFK911, you say aztec is more error- and misalignment- friendly?
4073 2011-07-02 23:11:51 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: it's a shockingly small number, tho
4074 2011-07-02 23:12:03 <Joric> i'm currently working with libdecodeqr/opencv
4075 2011-07-02 23:12:26 <JFK911> UukGoblin: i'm not sure about that, but it seems to be friendlier to me
4076 2011-07-02 23:12:33 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: i played with several libs and decided libqrencode works best
4077 2011-07-02 23:12:36 <Joric> unfortunately it does not remove any distortion except the perspective one
4078 2011-07-02 23:12:53 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: everything else i messed with (perl/ruby/python implementations ESPECIALLY) took for fucking ever to gen v30/v40
4079 2011-07-02 23:13:01 <JFK911> i am preferental to pdf and datamatrix codes - but they are not so good for laypeople to use
4080 2011-07-02 23:13:13 <roconnor> is datamatrix free?
4081 2011-07-02 23:13:15 <Joric> i don't gen, i decode that damn paper )
4082 2011-07-02 23:13:17 <JFK911> roconnor: yes
4083 2011-07-02 23:13:21 <JFK911> roconnor: iirc
4084 2011-07-02 23:13:26 <JFK911> its very high density
4085 2011-07-02 23:13:30 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: oh you wont be able to decode that image (and that was intentional)
4086 2011-07-02 23:13:33 <roconnor> the one from xerox?
4087 2011-07-02 23:13:36 <JFK911> but less easy to read than qr
4088 2011-07-02 23:13:42 <jrmithdobbs> JFK911: data matrix doesn't have ecc tho
4089 2011-07-02 23:13:50 <dsockwell> oh, BlueMatt, this may have happened while I was caching keypairs into an external database through rpc.
4090 2011-07-02 23:14:00 <dsockwell> er, btc addresses, not actual keypairs
4091 2011-07-02 23:14:08 <Joric> jrmithdobbs, we'll see, we'll see...
4092 2011-07-02 23:14:09 * dsockwell seeks coffee
4093 2011-07-02 23:14:19 <BlueMatt> so...probably a problem with your patch
4094 2011-07-02 23:14:24 <roconnor> ah no I was thinking datamatrix was something else
4095 2011-07-02 23:14:33 <JFK911> jrmithdobbs: sure seems to have ecc
4096 2011-07-02 23:14:33 <dsockwell> pretty sure i didn't patch
4097 2011-07-02 23:14:48 <JFK911> im pretty sure i set ecc options in bartender
4098 2011-07-02 23:14:48 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: i specifically took a shakey picture with fucked up lighting (from the laptop) and then resized the photo to tiny after import ;p
4099 2011-07-02 23:14:51 <makomk> phantomcircuit: by the way, I hope you're not using mersenne twister as a cryptograpic PRNG.
4100 2011-07-02 23:15:07 <JFK911> speaking of bartender its a pretty good warez to play with if you are experimenting with barcodes
4101 2011-07-02 23:15:08 <jrmithdobbs> Joric: but like i said, those are test keys with no coins associated
4102 2011-07-02 23:15:44 <dsockwell> BlueMatt: d92e2689e392475da4b85b8fd1fd6891  ./bitcoind is the md5sum of the binary i'm using
4103 2011-07-02 23:15:50 <JFK911> datamatrix and pdf417 are used as postage
4104 2011-07-02 23:16:08 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: that doesnt help in the least if you are using a custom patch
4105 2011-07-02 23:16:30 <JFK911> with these tiny symbols its got to have ecc
4106 2011-07-02 23:16:47 <JFK911> otherwise it would be worthless for postal use
4107 2011-07-02 23:16:49 <dsockwell> BlueMatt: i never said i was using a custom patch, why do you think that?
4108 2011-07-02 23:17:15 <BlueMatt> dsockwell: oh, I thought you were saying you were grabbing keypairs from bitcoin and putting them in a db via rpc
4109 2011-07-02 23:17:29 <dsockwell> i misspelled 'btc addresses'
4110 2011-07-02 23:17:41 <phantomcircuit> makomk, it's pretty common for things needing a VERY fast prng
4111 2011-07-02 23:17:58 <roconnor> BlueMatt: don't trust md5sum; it's trap! :D
4112 2011-07-02 23:18:07 <bitanarchy> If you sign something with a private key... how an you check the signature is authentic using bitcoin address, which is essentially a hash of the pubkey?
4113 2011-07-02 23:18:15 Clipse has joined
4114 2011-07-02 23:18:46 <jrmithdobbs> actually that example image was one of the failure tests lol
4115 2011-07-02 23:18:56 <phantomcircuit> although i actually just use aes-256-cfb with a random key
4116 2011-07-02 23:19:01 <jrmithdobbs> it doesn't scan, but you get the idea of the size from that
4117 2011-07-02 23:20:03 <makomk> phantomcircuit: it's not suitable for use as a cryptographic PRNG, though, even if it's good for other purposes requiring lots of good-quality pseudorandom numbers.
4118 2011-07-02 23:20:29 <phantomcircuit> makomk, yeah i know but people still use it as a prng all the time
4119 2011-07-02 23:21:18 <Joric> here's a good online generator with a lot of options http://www.racoindustries.com/barcodegenerator/2d/qr-code.aspx
4120 2011-07-02 23:21:44 <Joric> just to compare
4121 2011-07-02 23:22:29 <phantomcircuit> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/CryptGenRandom
4122 2011-07-02 23:22:37 <phantomcircuit> lol so basically they just stole HAVAGE
4123 2011-07-02 23:23:15 copumpkin has joined
4124 2011-07-02 23:24:08 <Joric> lol my gpg signature won't fit into V40
4125 2011-07-02 23:25:31 <Joric> just fyi most phones are able to read only V01..V04
4126 2011-07-02 23:26:07 <sacarlson> wow this bitcoin-qt is working, I wonder how far off sync it is with the standard bitcoin
4127 2011-07-02 23:28:48 <sacarlson> seems bitcoin-qt is calling itself bitcoin 0.3.23-beta in this build
4128 2011-07-02 23:29:10 shLONG has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4129 2011-07-02 23:30:28  has joined
4130 2011-07-02 23:31:40 <sacarlson> first gui I've seen running on Ubuntu in some time
4131 2011-07-02 23:32:19 <dsockwell> what's wrong with ubuntu?
4132 2011-07-02 23:32:21 <dsockwell> ... this time?
4133 2011-07-02 23:33:10 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4134 2011-07-02 23:33:48 <Joric> somebody should make ncurses client, like rtorrent :) a waay more usable
4135 2011-07-02 23:34:36 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
4136 2011-07-02 23:34:40 <cacheson> Joric: at one point I was thinking about creating an extremely minimalist ncurses client
4137 2011-07-02 23:35:16 <cacheson> single address, only connects to one other node (presumably the mainline client that you're also running)
4138 2011-07-02 23:35:20 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: pong
4139 2011-07-02 23:35:29 <cacheson> the idea would be to use it for a "savings account"
4140 2011-07-02 23:35:44 <cacheson> with no danger of your backups becoming outdated
4141 2011-07-02 23:35:47 Technic has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4142 2011-07-02 23:36:08 <jgarzik> for "savings account", create a wallet, get an address, close wallet and encrypt.
4143 2011-07-02 23:36:16 <jgarzik> deposit at will, watch balance in blockexplorer
4144 2011-07-02 23:36:21 <cacheson> yeah, that works too
4145 2011-07-02 23:36:27 <cacheson> part of the reason why I didn't pursue it
4146 2011-07-02 23:36:41 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: couple things: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/d774a2e8bdb83c9de873aa1afc942f5d6c47d163 look like what you want?  Also, https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/daecddb47971840141f2c5a2e6c78b17c3c17a06 is the current instructions after you have finished the initial set up, note the wgets from my repo for files that I planned on never committing as we were going to autotools, but maybe it might be time to go ahead and
4147 2011-07-02 23:36:41 <BlueMatt>  do that
4148 2011-07-02 23:38:40 dusski has joined
4149 2011-07-02 23:38:56 <dusski> hello, anyone there?
4150 2011-07-02 23:39:02 <BlueMatt> nope
4151 2011-07-02 23:39:10 <dusski> haha what a stupid qustion XD
4152 2011-07-02 23:39:24 <dusski> so... i was wondering
4153 2011-07-02 23:39:25 <BlueMatt> it always is when you logged in 10 seconds ago ;)
4154 2011-07-02 23:39:26 <jgarzik> we do answer stupid questions here, on occasion
4155 2011-07-02 23:39:33 <dusski> what do miners exactly do?
4156 2011-07-02 23:39:39 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: what are you talking about, I always answer stupid questions
4157 2011-07-02 23:40:07 <sacarlson> dsockwell: the problems I had with Ubuntu in the past bit bitcoin was not having the versions of wx needed in the repositories,  but I guess ubuntu loves qt so bitcoin-qt seems to work and with features I don't recall seeing before.
4158 2011-07-02 23:40:12 <BlueMatt> dusski: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/How_bitcoin_works#Bitcoin_mining
4159 2011-07-02 23:41:29 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: both commits look good
4160 2011-07-02 23:41:36 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: no, the second looks terrible
4161 2011-07-02 23:41:42 <jgarzik> hehe
4162 2011-07-02 23:41:45 <dusski> well, this is a little different from what i read
4163 2011-07-02 23:41:47 <BlueMatt> release-process.txt, pull from my repo???
4164 2011-07-02 23:41:50 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: a good start
4165 2011-07-02 23:42:02 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: sure.  branch?
4166 2011-07-02 23:42:09 <BlueMatt> yea, its on a branch on my repo
4167 2011-07-02 23:43:21 <dusski> i read that computer on the network solves a certain problem thus creating a "block" and thus receiving 50 coins, is this not true?
4168 2011-07-02 23:43:52 <dsockwell> dusski: the computer that creates the block gets the privilege of recording a 50 bitcoin credit to his own account
4169 2011-07-02 23:43:52  has quit (Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-252-19-167.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4170 2011-07-02 23:43:56 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well the question is whether or not https://raw.github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/crosscompile/src/makefile.linux-mingw can be committed
4171 2011-07-02 23:43:58 <dsockwell> dusski: the miner records it in the block.
4172 2011-07-02 23:44:14 <dsockwell> dusski: and then everyone in the network copies the block and it becomes part of the block chain forever.
4173 2011-07-02 23:44:20 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: and I suppose https://raw.github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/crosscompile/contrib/gitian-win32.yml
4174 2011-07-02 23:44:40 * jgarzik disappears for dinner + baby bedtime
4175 2011-07-02 23:44:56 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: well I got it up to 379 or so
4176 2011-07-02 23:45:18 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ok, have fun
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4182 2011-07-02 23:47:02 <Diablo-D3> mtrlt: the interesting part, 2.4 is like 375
4183 2011-07-02 23:47:46 <dusski> well ok but i was thinking "why should the computer do all the work?" so i was wondering is there a way to make "logical" problem for a human to solve?
4184 2011-07-02 23:48:17 <dsockwell> dusski: because the computer does it at hundreds of millions of problems per second
4185 2011-07-02 23:48:49 <dsockwell> that's enough work in a second for a human to do in a lifetime
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4187 2011-07-02 23:49:52 <dusski> but i like to solve problems :) and why not make something like that, i mean, a program that will convert problems into "logical" problems? if that's even possible :)
4188 2011-07-02 23:49:59 <dusski> like math problems
4189 2011-07-02 23:50:02 <dsockwell> dusski: if you want to do your own blockchain on pen and paper, though, you can set the bar really low, and do the digital logic for yourself
4190 2011-07-02 23:50:26 <dusski> well how?
4191 2011-07-02 23:51:02 <dsockwell> dusski: bitcoin blocks are cryptographic hashes.  the miners guess random numbers and apply a hash algorithm, and if the resulting hash has certain properties it's a block.
4192 2011-07-02 23:51:13 <dsockwell> or is part of a block, or something
4193 2011-07-02 23:51:35 <dsockwell> dusski: so you could just do it by hand with a very simple hash
4194 2011-07-02 23:52:15 rethaw1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4195 2011-07-02 23:52:22 <dsockwell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function#Hash_function_algorithms
4196 2011-07-02 23:52:48 <dsockwell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hash_functions
4197 2011-07-02 23:53:06 <dusski> i read about cryptography and i could read more and solve problems as long as "cryptographic hashes = cryptography" :)
4198 2011-07-02 23:53:41 <dsockwell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearson_hashing
4199 2011-07-02 23:53:48 <dsockwell> if you want to do it by hand, do that, it's only 8 bits
4200 2011-07-02 23:53:51 <dsockwell> a mere mortal could do it
4201 2011-07-02 23:53:55 <dsockwell> and maybe even find a block
4202 2011-07-02 23:54:21 <bitanarchy> dusski: for humans it is better to design cryptographic currencies instead of hashing blocks :-)
4203 2011-07-02 23:54:46 <dusski> and how do i convert them to blocks :)
4204 2011-07-02 23:55:01 <dsockwell> dusski: if you want real difficulty on par with bitcoin, though, there are only about 64 blocks that can exist
4205 2011-07-02 23:55:22 <dsockwell> dusski: have you read the bitcoin whitepaper?
4206 2011-07-02 23:55:33 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  okay, I got all that implemented to using sipa's GetPrivKey...
4207 2011-07-02 23:55:38 <dusski> not really :)
4208 2011-07-02 23:55:46 <dsockwell> dusski: start there, imo
4209 2011-07-02 23:56:03 <dusski> can u give me a link?
4210 2011-07-02 23:56:12 <b4epoche_> mapDump maps uint160 pubKeys to CKeyDump privKeys, correct?
4211 2011-07-02 23:56:30 <dsockwell> www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
4212 2011-07-02 23:56:59 <b4epoche_> CKeyDump contains vchSecret which is the actual privKey, correct?
4213 2011-07-02 23:57:51 <dusski> well this isnt pretty hard :) i can do this
4214 2011-07-02 23:58:03 <dusski> i only need to read a few books
4215 2011-07-02 23:58:22 <dsockwell> dusski: do you have a reason for wanting to do bitcoin by hand, other than curiosity?
4216 2011-07-02 23:58:25 <dusski> since it's summer holiday :) i can do those books in few weeks
4217 2011-07-02 23:58:32 <dsockwell> i.e. is it a school project?
4218 2011-07-02 23:58:53 groffer has joined
4219 2011-07-02 23:59:08 <dusski> well not really, i'm just to curious, like they say "curiosity killed the cat" :)
4220 2011-07-02 23:59:19 <dsockwell> i'm not going to judge you, but have fun knowing more about boolean algebra than you ever cared to
4221 2011-07-02 23:59:33 <dusski> hope to start my own group someday :)
4222 2011-07-02 23:59:37 <marioxcc> dusski: cracking blocks manually is plain STUPID
4223 2011-07-02 23:59:47 <Joric> as in sha256? :)
4224 2011-07-02 23:59:51 <dusski> well i want to do it :)
4225 2011-07-02 23:59:56 <dsockwell> i told him to do the pearson hash, it's 8 bits
4226 2011-07-02 23:59:59 <marioxcc> cryptography studies the algorithms to crack blocks and develop hash functions