1 2011-07-03 00:00:11 <marioxcc> actual hashing and block cracking are NOT crypto
   2 2011-07-03 00:00:22 <marioxcc> it's the same mistake than most math teachers fall into
   3 2011-07-03 00:00:30 <marioxcc> they think computing sums and divisions is math
   4 2011-07-03 00:00:32 <marioxcc> no, it isn't
   5 2011-07-03 00:00:53 <marioxcc> math studies the properties of sums, doing the sums is a work for computers, and is not math
   6 2011-07-03 00:01:11 <dusski> here is the deal, i'll do this until i'm bored and when i get there i'll just get to something else :)
   7 2011-07-03 00:01:19 Shuddertrixer has joined
   8 2011-07-03 00:01:26 <dsockwell> i'm with dusski on this one, y'all are naysayers
   9 2011-07-03 00:01:36 <marioxcc> dusski: if you're so inclined to work as a damn computer, then memorize digits of pi and maybe you can get a prize or something
  10 2011-07-03 00:01:50 devrandom has joined
  11 2011-07-03 00:02:06 <dusski> XD well, u said u dont want to judge :)
  12 2011-07-03 00:02:27 sabalaba has joined
  13 2011-07-03 00:02:43 <dsockwell> marioxcc: don't discourage him, he said he was going to read a book!  this guy has potential
  14 2011-07-03 00:02:48 <spq> duski, try hasing an already solved block by hand and look if you find the same resolution :)
  15 2011-07-03 00:02:57 <dsockwell> oh, good one
  16 2011-07-03 00:03:01 <marioxcc> dsockwell: don't get me wrong, cyyprography is good
  17 2011-07-03 00:03:04 Shuddertrix has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  18 2011-07-03 00:03:04 <marioxcc> learning is cool
  19 2011-07-03 00:03:17 <marioxcc> cracking blocks by hand is a plain waste of time
  20 2011-07-03 00:03:36 <dsockwell> duski: here's an arbitrary block -- new best=0000000000002aa07ac5
  21 2011-07-03 00:03:38 <marioxcc> if you want to 'waste' time in the computer you could as well surf wikipedia and find something interesting :)
  22 2011-07-03 00:03:38 <dusski> i know a little bit of everything and i want to know a little bit of this too :)
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  24 2011-07-03 00:03:55 <marioxcc> dusski: computing hashes won't makes you more knowledgeful
  25 2011-07-03 00:04:02 <dsockwell> dusski: the criteria for a bitcoin block is that the binary value of the hash has to be <= a certain number
  26 2011-07-03 00:04:07 <jtaylor> the time is better spent implementing the hashing in some language of choice
  27 2011-07-03 00:04:19 <marioxcc> dusski: however, learning how hash functions work will
  28 2011-07-03 00:04:22 <jtaylor> choose brainfuck or shakespeare for a chalange
  29 2011-07-03 00:04:30 <dsockwell> haha
  30 2011-07-03 00:04:51 <dsockwell> if he does it on pen and paper he'll learn to appreciate programming by himself
  31 2011-07-03 00:05:07 <spq> implementing the block solving without additional libs could be a nice learning work
  32 2011-07-03 00:05:08 <dusski> well trough this i will learn how hash functions work :)
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  36 2011-07-03 00:06:16 <dusski> gonna go now, gotta sleep :), bye
  37 2011-07-03 00:06:18 Shuddertrixer is now known as Shuddertrix
  38 2011-07-03 00:06:19 <spq> you'll only learn much about boolean algebra
  39 2011-07-03 00:06:21 <dusski> gonna be here tomorow :) if i have time
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  67 2011-07-03 00:38:44 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,ud gockels
  68 2011-07-03 00:38:45 <gribble> Error: "bc,ud" is not a valid command.
  69 2011-07-03 00:38:55 <Mad7Scientist> ;;ud gockels
  70 2011-07-03 00:38:55 <gribble> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Gockel | ... God bless Jessy James · God bless the U.S.A. · God bless you · God Bless Your Soul · God Bling · God Block. Gockel isn't defined yet. ...
  71 2011-07-03 00:40:33 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  72 2011-07-03 00:41:11 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  73 2011-07-03 00:41:38 <Mad7Scientist> ;;ud jock
  74 2011-07-03 00:41:38 <gribble> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jock | To clear things up, there is a major difference between a jock and athletes. Jocks tend to abuse their popularity, while the athletes don't really ...
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  78 2011-07-03 00:46:17 <dsockwell> ;;ud cockles
  79 2011-07-03 00:46:18 <gribble> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cockles | ballsack, testicles; from the song Kickapoo by Tenacious D.
  80 2011-07-03 00:48:15 <b4epoche_> ;;ud scrobble
  81 2011-07-03 00:48:16 <gribble> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Scrobble | When Last.fm automatically sends the name of each song played by audio player, they call this “scrobbling.”
  82 2011-07-03 00:48:44 <b4epoche_> damn, #1 def changed.
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  86 2011-07-03 00:51:28 <b4epoche_> actually, looks like last.fm cleaned out the old funny definition(s)
  87 2011-07-03 00:52:28 <luke-jr>   what():  Db::open: Invalid argument
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 109 2011-07-03 01:35:49 <jgarzik> ;;seen sirius-m
 110 2011-07-03 01:35:49 <gribble> sirius-m was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 11 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <sirius-m> sipa: it's updated already?
 111 2011-07-03 01:35:58 <kika> Diablo-D3: i just installed a clean fedora 14 system and installed the catalyst 11.6 and it works ok, now im downloading the 2.4 sdk
 112 2011-07-03 01:36:02 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 113 2011-07-03 01:36:09 rethaw has joined
 114 2011-07-03 01:36:09 <kika> Diablo-D3: can you help me to install the 2.4 sdk ?
 115 2011-07-03 01:36:17 <jgarzik> kika: what hardware?
 116 2011-07-03 01:36:25 <kika> jgarzik: 6990 ati
 117 2011-07-03 01:36:47 <kika> jgarzik: what more do you need to know ? :)
 118 2011-07-03 01:36:50 <jgarzik> kika: yeah, 2.4 should be the best.  though #bitcoin-mining is probably a better place to ask
 119 2011-07-03 01:36:58 spq has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 120 2011-07-03 01:37:13 <kika> jgarzik: okay
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 124 2011-07-03 01:39:05 <dsockwell> crap
 125 2011-07-03 01:39:14 <dsockwell> i ran bitcoin out of disk space or RAM or something
 126 2011-07-03 01:39:28 <dsockwell> EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
 127 2011-07-03 01:39:28 <dsockwell> DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
 128 2011-07-03 01:39:54 Shuddertrixer is now known as Shuddertrix
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 131 2011-07-03 01:41:22 <lfm> dsockwell: delete all but wallet.dat and bitcoin.conf from your .bitcoin dir and restart
 132 2011-07-03 01:41:39 <dsockwell> how much disk space should I allocate for bitcoin?
 133 2011-07-03 01:41:56 <jgarzik> dsockwell: 1GB if you are planning ahead
 134 2011-07-03 01:42:02 <lfm> I would have a couple gb free at least
 135 2011-07-03 01:42:04 <dsockwell> should that hold me indefinitely?
 136 2011-07-03 01:42:22 <dsockwell> or at least until i can upgrade?
 137 2011-07-03 01:42:44 <lfm> I think 2gb should be good for a year
 138 2011-07-03 01:43:21 <dsockwell> right now one of my clients is using 556mb
 139 2011-07-03 01:43:31 <dsockwell> er, 503
 140 2011-07-03 01:43:35 <dsockwell> not counting testnet
 141 2011-07-03 01:44:06 <dsockwell> the main difficulty here is i'm using a ramdisk because sync i/o sucks
 142 2011-07-03 01:44:13 <lfm> I have a test machine using 1.17gb but that should be exceptional
 143 2011-07-03 01:44:17 xelister has joined
 144 2011-07-03 01:44:32 <dsockwell> lfm: do you have a large number of transactions?
 145 2011-07-03 01:44:49 <dsockwell> -rw------- 1 dsockwell dsockwell 326M Jul  2 16:35 blk0001.dat
 146 2011-07-03 01:44:49 <dsockwell> -rw------- 1 dsockwell dsockwell 152M Jul  2 17:40 blkindex.dat
 147 2011-07-03 01:44:54 <dsockwell> ok
 148 2011-07-03 01:45:14 <lfm> the block chain should be the same for everyone but the wallet can be large if you play around a lot (like on testnet)
 149 2011-07-03 01:45:14 <dsockwell> the Bad Things happened when my ramdisk hit about 500MB
 150 2011-07-03 01:45:29 <dsockwell> yes, i had a very large wallet after I did about 7k testnet transactions
 151 2011-07-03 01:45:40 <dsockwell> decided that wasn't optimal
 152 2011-07-03 01:45:50 <dsockwell> yes i'm that jerk >_>
 153 2011-07-03 01:46:04 <lfm> thats what testnet is for sorta
 154 2011-07-03 01:46:13 <dsockwell> ok
 155 2011-07-03 01:46:31 <dsockwell> actually i can resize tempfs on the fly, what am i complaining about
 156 2011-07-03 01:47:29 <spq> why do clients have to keep the whole blockchain? to check if a coin isnt double spendet its enough to hold the transactions with unused outputs, right?
 157 2011-07-03 01:47:52 <lfm> spq yup and some unspent coins are very old
 158 2011-07-03 01:48:04 <spq> like the first :)
 159 2011-07-03 01:48:32 <lfm> spq also to support new node who want to veryfiy the whole chain to get up to speed
 160 2011-07-03 01:48:42 E-sense has joined
 161 2011-07-03 01:49:29 <lfm> ie for forensic purposes or just curiosity
 162 2011-07-03 01:49:58 <spq> yea - one would either need to trust anyone who gives only the unspent txo's or you have to check the whole chain
 163 2011-07-03 01:50:39 <dsockwell> ok
 164 2011-07-03 01:50:40 <spq> but the unused tx could still be compressed - cause they are not needed for runtime
 165 2011-07-03 01:50:44 <dsockwell> restarting
 166 2011-07-03 01:50:56 <spq> ahm, the used
 167 2011-07-03 01:51:17 <dsockwell> does bootstrapping normally go faster when you have an existing wallet.dat?
 168 2011-07-03 01:51:26 <lfm> well there may be a way to work around that. see the total of all unspent txn should add up to the total number of coins in circulation (with one slamm deviation.
 169 2011-07-03 01:51:41 <lfm> small
 170 2011-07-03 01:52:16 <lfm> so the total of all
 171 2011-07-03 01:52:21 <dsockwell> there, gave it 2gb
 172 2011-07-03 01:52:22 <spq> yea - but every "in-point" of a tx means there is one out point which is not needed anymore
 173 2011-07-03 01:52:32 <lfm>       unspent txn should add up to less than  the total number of coins in circulation
 174 2011-07-03 01:53:35 ThomasV has joined
 175 2011-07-03 01:53:57 <lfm> or the total in circulation should be less than the total generated
 176 2011-07-03 01:54:05 <spq> well, depends - if a tx has more than one out, all have to be spent to throw the tx away
 177 2011-07-03 01:54:41 <lfm> since one guy dropped 0.01000001 btc into nowhere once (to see if he could do it)
 178 2011-07-03 01:55:10 <lfm> spq ya by unspent txn I mean unspent outputs
 179 2011-07-03 01:55:23 <spq> one has to keep the whole tx i think
 180 2011-07-03 01:55:46 <lfm> ya, you cant throw away a txn till all the outputs are spent
 181 2011-07-03 01:56:00 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rb7cfd33 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Finished adding all the old optimizations, increase speed like 1-2% - http://bit.ly/lGWdNb
 182 2011-07-03 01:56:09 <lfm> that still gets rid of quite a few
 183 2011-07-03 01:59:51 cryptocnt has joined
 184 2011-07-03 02:03:55 <spq> hm, 544400 / 750301 tx could be marked as done
 185 2011-07-03 02:04:09 <spq> (until block 131177)
 186 2011-07-03 02:06:18 <lfm> I should be able to verify that for ya shortly
 187 2011-07-03 02:07:33 <lfm> Number of spent transactions: 885045
 188 2011-07-03 02:07:53 <lfm> hmm, I mighta got that wrong
 189 2011-07-03 02:08:39 <spq> well the blockfile i used is two days or so
 190 2011-07-03 02:09:20 xtalmath has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 191 2011-07-03 02:09:24 <spq> have a small tool which reads a raw blockfile and stores the stuff in memory, nicely linked for lookup and such - just needs 10s to read the whole file and put into memory :)
 192 2011-07-03 02:09:48 <spq> *two days old
 193 2011-07-03 02:10:48 Soak has quit ()
 194 2011-07-03 02:12:23 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 195 2011-07-03 02:13:13 <lfm> spent transactions: 663710
 196 2011-07-03 02:13:22 <lfm> Total number of transactions: 796193
 197 2011-07-03 02:14:01 <lfm> not sure if both those totals include coinbase txn tho
 198 2011-07-03 02:15:09 stuhood has joined
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 200 2011-07-03 02:16:35 Lobster_Man has joined
 201 2011-07-03 02:17:01 <spq> those have to be counted
 202 2011-07-03 02:17:04 <spq> and i counted them
 203 2011-07-03 02:19:13 <lfm> wonder where I am getting all the txn then seems a lot for 2 days
 204 2011-07-03 02:19:17 LobsterMan has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 205 2011-07-03 02:21:51 <spq> my db contains 131177 blocks
 206 2011-07-03 02:22:05 Gonzago has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 207 2011-07-03 02:22:08 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
 208 2011-07-03 02:22:09 <gribble> 134482
 209 2011-07-03 02:22:40 <lfm> 3000 blocks is more than 2 days
 210 2011-07-03 02:22:49 <spq> yea 2-3 days
 211 2011-07-03 02:23:05 <lfm> 144 blocks /day nominal?
 212 2011-07-03 02:23:37 <spq> hm lemme check
 213 2011-07-03 02:23:42 <lfm> 2016 blocks is two weeks nominal, (one diff change)
 214 2011-07-03 02:23:58 <[Tycho]> Who is the author of bitcoincharts.com ?
 215 2011-07-03 02:24:28 <spq> ok, i used http://bitcoin.bluematt.me/bitcoin-nightly/blockchain-nightly/bitcoin-blockchain-20110629.tar.gz - some more days :)
 216 2011-07-03 02:24:49 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 217 2011-07-03 02:25:14 <spq> [Tycho]: tcatm iirc
 218 2011-07-03 02:25:19 <[Tycho]> Thanks.
 219 2011-07-03 02:26:57 <lfm> spq so its getting pretty old, maybe isnt being updated correctly
 220 2011-07-03 02:27:47 <lfm> or it may be intentionally not fully up to date so you get the latest blocks from the live net
 221 2011-07-03 02:28:54 <spq> i should download a newer one or get th tool for live updating that db ready
 222 2011-07-03 02:28:59 <lfm>  spent transactions: 663741 of 930713
 223 2011-07-03 02:29:13 <lfm> from live data
 224 2011-07-03 02:30:01 <lfm> so its about 2/3rds anyway
 225 2011-07-03 02:30:25 <spq> you count the tx or the outpoints?
 226 2011-07-03 02:30:37 <lfm> txn
 227 2011-07-03 02:30:50 <spq> k
 228 2011-07-03 02:30:55 <lfm> I think
 229 2011-07-03 02:31:33 <dsockwell> ;;bc,blocks
 230 2011-07-03 02:31:33 <gribble> 134482
 231 2011-07-03 02:33:32 rethaw has quit (Quit: rethaw)
 232 2011-07-03 02:33:57 quellhorst has joined
 233 2011-07-03 02:34:05 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 234 2011-07-03 02:35:10 <marioxcc> ;;bc,blocks
 235 2011-07-03 02:35:10 <gribble> 134483
 236 2011-07-03 02:35:35 rethaw has joined
 237 2011-07-03 02:36:48 <spq> well gnight
 238 2011-07-03 02:37:06 lolwat` has joined
 239 2011-07-03 02:37:46 * lolwat` puts out a tin and begs for TestBTC.  Anyone?
 240 2011-07-03 02:38:01 earthmeLon has joined
 241 2011-07-03 02:38:01 earthmeLon has quit (Changing host)
 242 2011-07-03 02:38:01 earthmeLon has joined
 243 2011-07-03 02:38:03 <lolwat`> mjGCXAzRFghFu5ZBRZLJv3NubwgcPrgnND
 244 2011-07-03 02:38:07 dbasch has joined
 245 2011-07-03 02:38:49 <rethaw> lolwat
 246 2011-07-03 02:38:58 <lolwat`> yes?
 247 2011-07-03 02:39:07 <rethaw> http://bc.to/61
 248 2011-07-03 02:39:22 <rethaw> http://bc.to/6l
 249 2011-07-03 02:39:29 <rethaw> hmmm
 250 2011-07-03 02:39:29 <lolwat`> url not found
 251 2011-07-03 02:40:00 <rethaw> lol I see http://btc.to/61
 252 2011-07-03 02:40:08 <lfm> lolwat how many you need?
 253 2011-07-03 02:40:24 <rethaw> i am writing a trading bot, i could use some test funds
 254 2011-07-03 02:41:05 <rethaw> the minimum is 1 USD on mtgox for a trade right?
 255 2011-07-03 02:41:26 <lolwat`> lfm uh what are tx fees?
 256 2011-07-03 02:41:36 <num1> lolwat` txfee is 0.01
 257 2011-07-03 02:41:37 <rethaw> so about .15 btc
 258 2011-07-03 02:41:47 <lolwat`> enough to do 20 tx will hold me for a long time
 259 2011-07-03 02:41:52 <lolwat`> i dunno how scarce these are
 260 2011-07-03 02:42:05 <num1> testbtc are fairly common
 261 2011-07-03 02:42:08 <lolwat`> hell ill even send them back in my test tx
 262 2011-07-03 02:42:14 <num1> just keep asking and you'll et them
 263 2011-07-03 02:42:35 <lfm> send them to faucet when you're done
 264 2011-07-03 02:42:44 <lolwat`> ok
 265 2011-07-03 02:42:57 <lolwat`> oh i didnt realize thre was a faucet for test, ill go try that
 266 2011-07-03 02:43:01 <lfm> rethaw what addr?
 267 2011-07-03 02:43:15 underscor has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 268 2011-07-03 02:43:22 <rethaw> i was just begging as well
 269 2011-07-03 02:43:36 <rethaw> but I can fund it myself
 270 2011-07-03 02:43:44 <rethaw> I'm messing around with writing a trading bot
 271 2011-07-03 02:43:55 pyro-Der_ has joined
 272 2011-07-03 02:44:22 <rethaw> is there a mtgox test api so I don't throw away the little btc I have
 273 2011-07-03 02:44:37 <marioxcc> rethaw: what do you mean?
 274 2011-07-03 02:45:12 <upb> sure the live is the test
 275 2011-07-03 02:45:23 pyro-DerWahre- has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 276 2011-07-03 02:46:27 <rethaw> hah, ya I wanted to test out of live
 277 2011-07-03 02:46:29 <rethaw> with fake btc
 278 2011-07-03 02:46:45 Teslah has joined
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 283 2011-07-03 02:58:20 <rethaw> doesn't exist I'm guessing
 284 2011-07-03 02:58:56 <lfm> like learning poker,
 285 2011-07-03 02:59:52 <lfm> "Sure Ill teach you how to play poker. How much Money do you have?"
 286 2011-07-03 03:00:31 <dsockwell> rethaw: you'll have to simulate it
 287 2011-07-03 03:01:16 <rethaw> its just the actual API calls to mtgox I'd like to be able to test
 288 2011-07-03 03:01:39 <rethaw> its not so complicated of an algorithm that I need to simulate the market
 289 2011-07-03 03:02:15 <Joric> BlockExplorer is now mirrored by MtGox Live http://109.123.116.245
 290 2011-07-03 03:02:19 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 291 2011-07-03 03:02:32 <cacheson> rethaw: just place low bids and high asks that won't get filled
 292 2011-07-03 03:02:34 [7] has joined
 293 2011-07-03 03:02:38 <rethaw> well if mtgox is down it doesn't work anyway
 294 2011-07-03 03:02:49 <rethaw> got a mysql error
 295 2011-07-03 03:03:32 <Joric> source code is available here https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-explorer
 296 2011-07-03 03:03:41 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 297 2011-07-03 03:04:08 <rethaw> are you of Mtgox joric?
 298 2011-07-03 03:05:05 <Joric> nope i just happy there's a mirror
 299 2011-07-03 03:10:00 <upb> justmoon: btw, doesnt base58_decode leak all the bignums and tmp ?
 300 2011-07-03 03:10:23 <justmoon> upb: hmm?
 301 2011-07-03 03:10:44 <lfm> upb probably
 302 2011-07-03 03:10:59 <justmoon> someone give me some context please ^^
 303 2011-07-03 03:11:30 <lfm> memory leaks in part of bitcoin client
 304 2011-07-03 03:11:45 <justmoon> ahh the C++ version of the base58_encode?
 305 2011-07-03 03:11:51 <justmoon> yeah, patches welcome :)
 306 2011-07-03 03:12:05 <upb> nah i meant his nodejs thingy
 307 2011-07-03 03:12:47 <lfm> oh in block explorer?
 308 2011-07-03 03:12:47 <jgarzik> [ANN] Bitcoin v0.3.24 release candidate available - http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25515.0
 309 2011-07-03 03:13:18 <justmoon> I assume he's talking about: https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/blob/master/native.cc
 310 2011-07-03 03:13:59 <justmoon> and yeah if that leaks memory that would affect BitcoinJS Explorer (node-bitcoin-explorer)
 311 2011-07-03 03:14:42 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 312 2011-07-03 03:15:05 <lolwat`> oh wow i got 0.11 from the faucet and 100 and 10 from 2 other people, thanks whoever sent !
 313 2011-07-03 03:15:45 <lfm> testnet == cheap
 314 2011-07-03 03:16:02 <lolwat`> haha yeah I assumed its not a big deal. still feels weird to beg tho
 315 2011-07-03 03:16:37 TheZimm has joined
 316 2011-07-03 03:17:08 <lolwat`> i thought blockexplorer was closed source?
 317 2011-07-03 03:17:21 <justmoon> lolwat`, I wrote a clone from scratch
 318 2011-07-03 03:17:38 <lolwat`> oh nice infact the reason I asked for testnet coins was to do the same thing
 319 2011-07-03 03:17:45 <lolwat`> I guess I can cross that off my list
 320 2011-07-03 03:17:53 <justmoon> no don't, the more the merrier
 321 2011-07-03 03:18:15 <justmoon> I'm still working on stability and we don't have the same search functionality yet
 322 2011-07-03 03:18:17 <lolwat`> ill probably do it anyway, I want a python implementation
 323 2011-07-03 03:18:29 <lolwat`> for a client, and figured blockexplorer clone would be a good star
 324 2011-07-03 03:18:50 <justmoon> full python implementation of bitcoin protocol?
 325 2011-07-03 03:19:11 <justmoon> or RPC-based?
 326 2011-07-03 03:19:23 <lolwat`> full
 327 2011-07-03 03:19:38 <b4epoche_> where is Value defined in the client code?  or is that a Boost type?
 328 2011-07-03 03:19:39 <justmoon> awesome!
 329 2011-07-03 03:19:43 <lolwat`> point was to use as example to learn protocol
 330 2011-07-03 03:19:49 <justmoon> yeah, it's the best way
 331 2011-07-03 03:20:07 <justmoon> look at bitcoinj - mike's code is the best place to learn the protocol imho
 332 2011-07-03 03:20:18 <lolwat`> yes that is what I was using :]
 333 2011-07-03 03:20:39 <justmoon> then get back to work gogogo :D
 334 2011-07-03 03:20:52 Joric_ has joined
 335 2011-07-03 03:20:52 Joric_ has quit (Changing host)
 336 2011-07-03 03:20:52 Joric_ has joined
 337 2011-07-03 03:20:58 <Joric_> damnit
 338 2011-07-03 03:21:02 <lolwat`> people who have to follow other people's coding specs write such more readable code, it's amazing
 339 2011-07-03 03:21:03 Joric has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 340 2011-07-03 03:21:23 Shuddertrix has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 341 2011-07-03 03:21:43 <Joric_> lolwat`, there's no 'realtime stats' in this sources i'm studying it atm
 342 2011-07-03 03:21:54 <rethaw> when trying to get my funds balance from mtgox via API I get error: bad token
 343 2011-07-03 03:22:08 <rethaw> or must be logged in, I know, I'm doing it wrong
 344 2011-07-03 03:24:10 <lolwat`> Joric_, huh?
 345 2011-07-03 03:24:45 <lolwat`> is there any kind of DOS protection in the client
 346 2011-07-03 03:24:52 <lfm> Joric_: ya block exporer has always been on a periodic update
 347 2011-07-03 03:25:02 <lolwat`> like if I join the channel with 3 or 4 accounts from the same IP will it flag me
 348 2011-07-03 03:25:28 <lolwat`> i looked and didn't see but just to be sure..
 349 2011-07-03 03:26:03 ThomasV has joined
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 351 2011-07-03 03:28:31 <Joric_> lolwat`, i'm speaking of http://blockexplorer.com/q it's not implemented in the git
 352 2011-07-03 03:28:46 <rethaw> anyone have experience with mtgox api?
 353 2011-07-03 03:29:32 <cacheson> rethaw: what's your question?
 354 2011-07-03 03:29:54 <rethaw> I am just trying to do get funds
 355 2011-07-03 03:30:16 <rethaw> i get either "Must be logged in" or "Bad token"
 356 2011-07-03 03:30:40 <cacheson> I haven't written anything for the API directly
 357 2011-07-03 03:30:46 <cacheson> I use this: https://github.com/ezl/mtgox
 358 2011-07-03 03:30:58 <cacheson> you can either use it yourself, or check and see how he does it
 359 2011-07-03 03:31:33 denisx has left ()
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 369 2011-07-03 03:51:45 shLONG has joined
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 371 2011-07-03 03:52:45 shLONG has joined
 372 2011-07-03 03:53:17 <upb> justmoon: what am i missing ? http://pastebin.com/3f7jKNZc
 373 2011-07-03 03:53:40 <shLONG> I want 3 bitcoins for £20
 374 2011-07-03 03:53:43 <shLONG> any sellers?
 375 2011-07-03 03:54:00 <marioxcc> shLONG: try britcoin
 376 2011-07-03 03:54:26 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 377 2011-07-03 03:54:32 <justmoon> upb: node --version ?
 378 2011-07-03 03:54:43 <upb> v0.5.0-pre
 379 2011-07-03 03:55:04 <justmoon> try 0.4.x branch, we support the stable release now
 380 2011-07-03 03:55:23 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 381 2011-07-03 03:55:24 <justmoon> because the 0.5.0 is broken and they are saying it will be so for a while
 382 2011-07-03 03:55:32 <upb> oh
 383 2011-07-03 03:55:45 <upb> yeah looking at what make install installed for node, that header isnt there
 384 2011-07-03 03:55:53 <phantomcircuit> looking for input on britcoin v2 design decisions
 385 2011-07-03 03:56:00 <phantomcircuit> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25509.0
 386 2011-07-03 03:56:07 <phantomcircuit> thoughts would be appreciated
 387 2011-07-03 03:57:52 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r6d601dd / lib/peermanager.js : Added connect="auto" mode and obey initialPeers configuration. - http://bit.ly/m5IfgT
 388 2011-07-03 03:57:53 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r8383120 / (lib/bitcoin.js package.json): Bump version to 0.0.5. - http://bit.ly/lUOZVi
 389 2011-07-03 03:57:53 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r63f1143 / README.md : Updated README: Node.js 0.5.0 no longer required. - http://bit.ly/mM00nG
 390 2011-07-03 03:58:43 osmosis has joined
 391 2011-07-03 04:03:27 <^1bitc0inplz> CIA-103: thats cool, a bitcoin client in node... been thinking of writing one myself, looks like I can just be lazy :-)
 392 2011-07-03 04:03:52 <justmoon> you're talking to the repository bot, bro :)
 393 2011-07-03 04:03:58 <nanotube> hehe
 394 2011-07-03 04:04:00 <^1bitc0inplz> :-(
 395 2011-07-03 04:04:05 <nanotube> bots are people too
 396 2011-07-03 04:04:11 <^1bitc0inplz> surely they have feelings
 397 2011-07-03 04:04:13 <^1bitc0inplz> lol
 398 2011-07-03 04:04:13 <justmoon> nanotube, only gribble!
 399 2011-07-03 04:04:16 <justmoon> ;;pet
 400 2011-07-03 04:04:16 <gribble> *purrrrrrrr*
 401 2011-07-03 04:04:33 <nanotube> justmoon: :D
 402 2011-07-03 04:04:44 <^1bitc0inplz> justmoon: that your repo?
 403 2011-07-03 04:04:54 <justmoon> nanotube, you should make it so if anyone except you tries to pet gribble they get bitten :)
 404 2011-07-03 04:05:09 B0g4r7 has joined
 405 2011-07-03 04:05:14 <justmoon> yep those commits are from me
 406 2011-07-03 04:05:24 <nanotube> justmoon: hehe i want him to be friendly. maybe then people will ,,feed him more :D
 407 2011-07-03 04:05:24 <gribble> Feed me... Feed me bitcoins! 1MgD6rah5zUgEGYZnNmdpnXMaDR3itKYzU
 408 2011-07-03 04:05:46 <justmoon> awww, ok, I think I can space a bitcent!
 409 2011-07-03 04:05:50 <^1bitc0inplz> justmoon: is the aim of it to be a complete, drop in, replacement for bitcoin (including bitcoind)?
 410 2011-07-03 04:06:25 <gribble> justmoon \o/ :)
 411 2011-07-03 04:06:58 suriv has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 412 2011-07-03 04:07:17 suriv has joined
 413 2011-07-03 04:08:12 <justmoon> bitcoinplz: it wasn't going to be in the beginning, it was meant mostly as a backend for webcoin
 414 2011-07-03 04:08:20 DaQatz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 415 2011-07-03 04:08:23 <^1bitc0inplz> ah
 416 2011-07-03 04:08:24 <justmoon> but recently yeah, I think we'll make it a drop-in replacement for bitcoind
 417 2011-07-03 04:08:31 kika has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 418 2011-07-03 04:08:35 DaQatz has joined
 419 2011-07-03 04:09:08 kon is now known as Kothar
 420 2011-07-03 04:09:27 <^1bitc0inplz> my pool runs entirely off of node (expect bitcoind), and the only none scaleable bit is bitcoind.... lately I've been pondering what it would take to replace that memory hog with something more streamlined for a pools need
 421 2011-07-03 04:09:55 <justmoon> :O
 422 2011-07-03 04:10:00 <^1bitc0inplz> ?
 423 2011-07-03 04:10:11 <justmoon> you have a pool where everything runs off of node, except for bitcoind?
 424 2011-07-03 04:10:16 <^1bitc0inplz> yes
 425 2011-07-03 04:10:21 <justmoon> you're like our perfect customer :D
 426 2011-07-03 04:10:32 <^1bitc0inplz> no pushpool, or anything, all custom in coffeescript and running on node
 427 2011-07-03 04:10:42 <^1bitc0inplz> indeed :-D
 428 2011-07-03 04:10:50 <justmoon> node-bitcoin-p2p is a bit too unstable for practical use, but please do play with it if you get a chance
 429 2011-07-03 04:11:01 <justmoon> I need to fix/update the docs badly though
 430 2011-07-03 04:11:30 <^1bitc0inplz> I've already "watched" it on github... I'll have to play around with it
 431 2011-07-03 04:11:30 sacarlson has joined
 432 2011-07-03 04:11:53 <justmoon> cool, let me know if you need any help!
 433 2011-07-03 04:12:14 <^1bitc0inplz> I will, you've got me actually thinking removing bitcoind might be doable
 434 2011-07-03 04:12:37 <^1bitc0inplz> the parts that scare me look like the parts you've already done, transaction verification, IRC, P2P, etc
 435 2011-07-03 04:13:54 <justmoon> yeah, well, the devil is in the details, for now my priority is adding the JSON-RPC and some of the daemon infrastructure (like a script to start/stop etc.)
 436 2011-07-03 04:16:43 nhodges has joined
 437 2011-07-03 04:16:44 caedes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 438 2011-07-03 04:17:17 <justmoon> nanotube, ok, gribble fed :)
 439 2011-07-03 04:17:49 <lolwat`> so there are a bunch of things that are disabled in the main client
 440 2011-07-03 04:17:53 <lolwat`> but would be accepted in blocks
 441 2011-07-03 04:17:59 <lolwat`> nlocktime, tx replacement
 442 2011-07-03 04:18:09 <justmoon> lolwat`, custom scripts...
 443 2011-07-03 04:18:20 <lolwat`> if you turned those on in your own client
 444 2011-07-03 04:18:24 <lolwat`> you'd get all the TX fees
 445 2011-07-03 04:18:43 <lolwat`> so if we can get enough people using them
 446 2011-07-03 04:18:53 <lolwat`> miners will demand they be turned on in main client
 447 2011-07-03 04:19:11 <justmoon> hehe, well, luke-jr already accepts non-standard transaction afaik
 448 2011-07-03 04:19:21 <lolwat`> awesome
 449 2011-07-03 04:19:36 <lolwat`> really all i want is to be able to do untrusted trades
 450 2011-07-03 04:19:56 Guest1598725452 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 451 2011-07-03 04:20:20 <justmoon> lolwat`, I've been thinking about adding a "custom transaction builder" tool to webcoin, but it's not a priority obviously :)
 452 2011-07-03 04:20:34 <lolwat`> so i actually started on a compiler
 453 2011-07-03 04:20:49 <lolwat`> that would let you specify txs in a functional language
 454 2011-07-03 04:20:56 <lolwat`> and it would compile it down to the stack language
 455 2011-07-03 04:21:05 <justmoon> oh wow
 456 2011-07-03 04:21:07 <lolwat`> that is what I want to test on testnet
 457 2011-07-03 04:21:09 <justmoon> that's cool stuff
 458 2011-07-03 04:21:19 <luke-jr> lolwat`: not possible
 459 2011-07-03 04:21:20 <Joric_> could anyone explain how mybitcoin.com accepts payments via merchant service without waiting 10 minutes for the next block?
 460 2011-07-03 04:21:22 <lolwat`> but i dont think these things will even work on testnet
 461 2011-07-03 04:21:27 <luke-jr> lolwat`: scripts aren't turing complete
 462 2011-07-03 04:21:30 <lolwat`> luke-jr, ?
 463 2011-07-03 04:21:33 <lolwat`> er ofcourse
 464 2011-07-03 04:21:37 <luke-jr> Joric_: the same way anyone can
 465 2011-07-03 04:21:43 Lexikahn has joined
 466 2011-07-03 04:21:52 <Joric_> luke-jr, is it safe?
 467 2011-07-03 04:21:56 Joric_ is now known as Joric
 468 2011-07-03 04:22:12 <lolwat`> luke-jr, ofcourse not full power, just its more convient to write things in a normal language than in stack assembly
 469 2011-07-03 04:22:28 <luke-jr> Joric: same risk as usual
 470 2011-07-03 04:22:30 <lolwat`> luke-jr, the language is basically C without loops.  but with if/else
 471 2011-07-03 04:22:37 <luke-jr> Joric: unless MyBitcoin eats that
 472 2011-07-03 04:22:53 <luke-jr> lolwat`: ok
 473 2011-07-03 04:22:59 <Joric> well it's like instant and ready to withdraw
 474 2011-07-03 04:23:29 <justmoon> when you withdraw it, is the new transaction based on the money you put in?
 475 2011-07-03 04:23:35 Lexikahn has quit (Client Quit)
 476 2011-07-03 04:23:44 <justmoon> if so - reversal of the original transaction will reverse the followup transactions as well
 477 2011-07-03 04:23:45 <Joric> i didn't check this
 478 2011-07-03 04:24:43 <luke-jr> justmoon: unlikely
 479 2011-07-03 04:25:18 <justmoon> luke-jr, I remember someone asking about doing this using the accounts feature
 480 2011-07-03 04:26:01 <justmoon> but I think the guy who asked was the instawallet dude, not mybitcoin
 481 2011-07-03 04:26:15 <luke-jr> justmoon: that's intentionally NOT supported by accounts
 482 2011-07-03 04:26:21 nanook7 has joined
 483 2011-07-03 04:26:52 Castor_ has joined
 484 2011-07-03 04:27:09 <nanotube> justmoon: \o/ thank you :)
 485 2011-07-03 04:27:31 <luke-jr> https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25537.0
 486 2011-07-03 04:27:37 <luke-jr> err
 487 2011-07-03 04:27:39 <luke-jr> wrong channel
 488 2011-07-03 04:28:32 koleg has joined
 489 2011-07-03 04:29:16 <diki> ;;bc,calc 11000000
 490 2011-07-03 04:29:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 11000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 6 days, 5 hours, 35 minutes, and 19 seconds
 491 2011-07-03 04:29:36 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 11000000 1
 492 2011-07-03 04:29:37 <gribble> Error: '0.390451572364' is not a valid integer.
 493 2011-07-03 04:29:44 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 1 11000000
 494 2011-07-03 04:29:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 11000000, is 1498117 years, 37 weeks, 1 day, 22 hours, 13 minutes, and 20 seconds
 495 2011-07-03 04:29:49 <diki> ....
 496 2011-07-03 04:29:54 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 11000000 1
 497 2011-07-03 04:29:54 <gribble> Error: '0.390451572364' is not a valid integer.
 498 2011-07-03 04:30:04 <diki> this thing is broken
 499 2011-07-03 04:30:12 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 11000000 1.2
 500 2011-07-03 04:30:12 <gribble> Error: '0.468541886836' is not a valid integer.
 501 2011-07-03 04:30:20 <diki> ;;bc,calcd
 502 2011-07-03 04:30:20 <gribble> (bc,calcd <an alias, 2 arguments>) -- Alias for "echo The average time to generate a block at $1 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of $2, is [time elapsed [math calc 1/((2**224-1)/$2*$1*1000/2**256)]]".
 503 2011-07-03 04:30:31 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 11000 1
 504 2011-07-03 04:30:31 <lolwat`> were can I find info on pool payouts
 505 2011-07-03 04:30:31 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 11000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 6 minutes and 30 seconds
 506 2011-07-03 04:30:46 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 1100000 1
 507 2011-07-03 04:30:46 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1100000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 3 seconds
 508 2011-07-03 04:30:49 <lolwat`> I dont understand how PPS makes sense
 509 2011-07-03 04:30:56 <diki> it doesnt lolwat
 510 2011-07-03 04:30:56 Guest30065 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 511 2011-07-03 04:31:09 <diki> unless you pack quite a few ghash/s
 512 2011-07-03 04:31:11 <lolwat`> er i mean because of difficulty changes
 513 2011-07-03 04:31:12 WildSoil has joined
 514 2011-07-03 04:31:21 <WildSoil> ;;bd,stats
 515 2011-07-03 04:31:22 <gribble> Error: "bd,stats" is not a valid command.
 516 2011-07-03 04:31:24 <luke-jr> lolwat`: PPS makes perfect sense
 517 2011-07-03 04:31:27 <riush> pps payout changes when difficulty changes
 518 2011-07-03 04:31:30 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
 519 2011-07-03 04:31:31 <lolwat`> oh
 520 2011-07-03 04:31:32 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134501 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 570 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 6 hours, 51 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1592644.46933330
 521 2011-07-03 04:31:40 <luke-jr> yeah, share reward drops
 522 2011-07-03 04:31:44 <lolwat`> then it doesn't make sense because I don't understand it :]
 523 2011-07-03 04:31:51 <lolwat`> where can I find an explanation clearly
 524 2011-07-03 04:32:02 <^1bitc0inplz> PPS only makes sense if the miners are honest
 525 2011-07-03 04:32:10 <luke-jr> lolwat`: for each share you submit, you get paid N
 526 2011-07-03 04:32:21 <luke-jr> ^1bitc0inplz: cheating is a problem no matter how you pay
 527 2011-07-03 04:32:50 <^1bitc0inplz> luke-jr: however, in PPS cheaters get paid while preventing the pool from getting paid. Result, payout > income
 528 2011-07-03 04:33:05 <luke-jr> ^1bitc0inplz: only with straight PPS
 529 2011-07-03 04:33:14 <luke-jr> ^1bitc0inplz: MPPS and SMPPS handle it ok
 530 2011-07-03 04:33:16 <lolwat`> im looking at luke-jr's pool thread
 531 2011-07-03 04:33:22 <lolwat`> I see you just tak address as username
 532 2011-07-03 04:33:26 <lolwat`> why doesn't everyone do that
 533 2011-07-03 04:33:41 <luke-jr> lolwat`: cuz they want to track you :P
 534 2011-07-03 04:33:49 <upb> because they dont know how to implement this i guess :)
 535 2011-07-03 04:34:06 <lolwat`> seems like the obvious way to do it to me
 536 2011-07-03 04:34:34 <lolwat`> it seems to me the most straightforward payment scheme would be this:
 537 2011-07-03 04:34:56 <lolwat`> the N shares with lowest hash get paid out 1/N of the reward
 538 2011-07-03 04:35:37 <lolwat`> is there some reason no pool does that that I'm missing?
 539 2011-07-03 04:36:30 <lolwat`> (where N is choosen appropriately.  N = 1 is solo mining, N=1000 or 10000 for a big pool)
 540 2011-07-03 04:36:50 <lolwat`> the pool would just be a big scoreboard, and your goal is to get yourself on the scoreboard
 541 2011-07-03 04:36:53 <luke-jr> lolwat`: interesting
 542 2011-07-03 04:37:14 <luke-jr> lolwat`: it doesn't fit the primary purpose of pools, but it would be interesting to see in practice
 543 2011-07-03 04:37:41 <lolwat`> er so I guess I consider that to be in some sense the purest form of pool
 544 2011-07-03 04:37:53 <lolwat`> once you start counting work between blocks it seems to become another beast altogether
 545 2011-07-03 04:39:12 nanook7 has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
 546 2011-07-03 04:39:15 <lolwat`> i was thinking about how to do instant TX in bitcoin while still having security
 547 2011-07-03 04:39:31 <lolwat`> if bitcoin was basically a big scoreboard that would accomplish it
 548 2011-07-03 04:39:49 <lolwat`> if you're verifying TX you really just care about the top of the scoreboard, it will be much much lower than even the 2nd place
 549 2011-07-03 04:40:44 <lolwat`> so if you had a giant scoreboard and miners submitted to it immediately, you could know before a block comes that your pretty sure your tx is getting in
 550 2011-07-03 04:41:00 <kreal-> if english is  en_US  what is german ?
 551 2011-07-03 04:41:21 <kreal-> de_DE ?
 552 2011-07-03 04:42:58 amiller has joined
 553 2011-07-03 04:43:49 james has joined
 554 2011-07-03 04:44:15 james is now known as Guest60703
 555 2011-07-03 04:46:40 <nanotube> kreal-: which german? austrian german, switzerland german, germany german, ...?
 556 2011-07-03 04:46:51 <nanotube> kreal-: if you are looking for germany-german, then yes, de-DE
 557 2011-07-03 04:46:55 <kreal-> uh no idea.
 558 2011-07-03 04:47:07 <kreal-> its a request for localization for my pool script.
 559 2011-07-03 04:47:13 <kreal-> but thanks.
 560 2011-07-03 04:47:17 <kreal-> we will go with de_DE
 561 2011-07-03 04:48:44 skeledrew has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3pre)
 562 2011-07-03 04:49:03 <kreal-> by we I mean me.
 563 2011-07-03 04:49:10 <nanotube> kreal-: :)
 564 2011-07-03 04:49:23 <justmoon> kreal-, we also refer to ourselves as we!
 565 2011-07-03 04:49:35 <nanotube> kreal-: (as you may expect, there are multiple versions of en- as well)
 566 2011-07-03 04:49:43 <kreal-> yes
 567 2011-07-03 04:49:49 <kreal-> en_US, en_GB and so on.
 568 2011-07-03 04:49:52 <nanotube> right
 569 2011-07-03 04:49:56 marioxcc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 570 2011-07-03 04:49:57 <kreal-> just dont know about germany.
 571 2011-07-03 04:50:20 <kreal-> in denmark we only have  da_DK
 572 2011-07-03 04:50:47 <nanotube> kreal-: hehe you have it easy, then hehe
 573 2011-07-03 04:50:59 <kreal-> :)
 574 2011-07-03 04:51:38 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Abraham Jewowich master * rdc74e6e / native.cc : Fixed leaking of OpenSSL structures - http://bit.ly/klBLhf
 575 2011-07-03 04:51:38 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r144201e / native.cc :
 576 2011-07-03 04:51:38 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Merge pull request #17 from AbrahamJewowich/master
 577 2011-07-03 04:51:38 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Fixed leaking of OpenSSL structures. - http://bit.ly/jHwOzK
 578 2011-07-03 04:52:28 <kreal-> my basement got flooded today :(
 579 2011-07-03 04:52:53 <kreal-> thats so nasty..
 580 2011-07-03 04:52:54 <nanotube> kreal-: hopefully that's not where you had your mining rigs
 581 2011-07-03 04:52:55 <justmoon> kreal-, so much for having it easy o_O
 582 2011-07-03 04:53:05 <kreal-> nanotube: it was.
 583 2011-07-03 04:53:13 <justmoon> no way o_O
 584 2011-07-03 04:53:22 <justmoon> do you have a damage estimate?
 585 2011-07-03 04:53:41 <nanotube> kreal-: oh... in that case, hopefully the rigs did not get flooded and died because they were high enough off the ground ...?
 586 2011-07-03 04:53:52 <kreal-> no I had it raised.
 587 2011-07-03 04:54:03 <justmoon> ah
 588 2011-07-03 04:54:08 <nanotube> cloud, silver lining, check. :)
 589 2011-07-03 04:54:10 <kreal-> lucky me..
 590 2011-07-03 04:54:32 <nanotube> still yea, sucks... where did the water come from? broken pipe? or what
 591 2011-07-03 04:55:05 <kreal-> http://ekstrabladet.dk/template/v3-0/direct/article/picProxy.jsp?url=http://multimedia.ekstrabladet.dk/archive/00680/foto3_680590o.jpg&iw=926&ih=691&secid=1241&cbw=1484&cbh=899
 592 2011-07-03 04:55:06 <phungus> sump pump broke
 593 2011-07-03 04:55:09 <kreal-> from today...
 594 2011-07-03 04:55:18 <kreal-> Not my truck haha!
 595 2011-07-03 04:55:38 <kreal-> nanotube: from the sky.
 596 2011-07-03 04:55:49 <kreal-> insane amounts of suddenly.
 597 2011-07-03 04:55:53 <kreal-> +water
 598 2011-07-03 04:56:03 <nanotube> ah hehe
 599 2011-07-03 04:56:28 <phungus> wow, we're in a really bad drought and danced when we got 2 hours of rain today
 600 2011-07-03 04:56:45 <phungus> surrounded by really bad wildfires
 601 2011-07-03 04:57:01 <kreal-> then come to denmark...
 602 2011-07-03 04:57:17 <phungus> yeah, just send it up here to 8,000ft. :-)
 603 2011-07-03 04:57:17 <kreal-> you'll drown
 604 2011-07-03 04:57:55 <kreal-> hey I noticed something, I18N is boooring.
 605 2011-07-03 04:58:12 Optimo has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 606 2011-07-03 04:58:27 Optimo has joined
 607 2011-07-03 04:59:24 <kreal-> :)
 608 2011-07-03 05:01:12 skeledrew has joined
 609 2011-07-03 05:02:04 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * ra70f9d0cf331 gentoo/net-p2p/bitcoind/ (4 files in 2 dirs): net-p2p/bitcoind-0.3.24_rc1 (and updates for 9999) http://tinyurl.com/3oo8cfr
 610 2011-07-03 05:03:18 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 611 2011-07-03 05:07:17 nefario has joined
 612 2011-07-03 05:12:04 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rece2fc3c1103 gentoo/net-p2p/wxbitcoin/ (4 files in 2 dirs): net-p2p/wxbitcoin-0.3.24_rc1 http://tinyurl.com/3mzpgm7
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 616 2011-07-03 05:25:46 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r974b258 / lib/node.js : Fixed handoff of settings to BlockChain class. Fixes GH-11. - http://bit.ly/j8idgf
 617 2011-07-03 05:26:29 <justmoon> ah damn linked to the wrong ticket -_-
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 621 2011-07-03 05:37:27 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r8f63b65 / lib/schema/transaction.js : Fixed bug with non-standard inPubKeys. - http://bit.ly/lkCTrb
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 625 2011-07-03 05:44:42 <justmoon> what does the "data" parameter to getwork do?
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 633 2011-07-03 06:06:12 <rethaw> cacheson: thanks for the link to that git project
 634 2011-07-03 06:06:22 <rethaw> its a much better implementation than I had started anyhow
 635 2011-07-03 06:06:45 kreal- has joined
 636 2011-07-03 06:07:43 <cacheson> rethaw: sure thing
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 639 2011-07-03 06:10:09 <shLONG> hat the hell I move money from my overall account into a specific account right
 640 2011-07-03 06:10:15 <shLONG> and even though i dont have the bitcoins
 641 2011-07-03 06:10:22 <shLONG> it registers them as being in that specific account
 642 2011-07-03 06:10:33 <shLONG> what am I meant to do? adding confirmations doesnt make a difference
 643 2011-07-03 06:10:40 <shLONG> how can I give myself bitcoins I dont even have?!
 644 2011-07-03 06:16:29 <wumpus> you can't...
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 646 2011-07-03 06:18:30 <nanotube> probably your total balance is still 0. it just creates posititive balance in accountX, but offets it with negative balance on your default account.
 647 2011-07-03 06:22:22 stuhood has left ()
 648 2011-07-03 06:31:27 <shLONG> if I call sendfrom() without specifying an account
 649 2011-07-03 06:31:42 <shLONG> nevermind
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 657 2011-07-03 06:50:30 <shLONG> i've moved a load of money around from account to account that i dont have
 658 2011-07-03 06:50:36 <shLONG> and it's messedup my overall balance
 659 2011-07-03 06:50:58 <shLONG> how do i reset it so that any ballance i dont actually have in my wallet doesnt show up?
 660 2011-07-03 06:51:47 <wumpus> have you tried -rescan?
 661 2011-07-03 06:52:14 <shLONG> that means restarting the daemon :(
 662 2011-07-03 06:54:11 <shLONG> rescan didnt work though :(
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 703 2011-07-03 08:33:56 <dsockwell> so my bitcoin installation has chewed up all 2GB of disk space that I gave it.  What lives in ~/.bitcoin/database ?
 704 2011-07-03 08:35:35 <dsockwell> i see 96 of these: -rw------- 1 dsockwell dsockwell 9.6M Jul  3 12:32 log.0000000096
 705 2011-07-03 08:35:43 <dsockwell> i don't suppose there's a chance that they're safe to delete?
 706 2011-07-03 08:36:19 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
 707 2011-07-03 08:41:15 <phantomcircuit> dsockwell, 2GB of disk space?
 708 2011-07-03 08:41:27 <dsockwell> yes
 709 2011-07-03 08:41:43 <phantomcircuit> 503M	/home/phantomcircuit/.bitcoin/
 710 2011-07-03 08:41:48 <phantomcircuit> you have a problem
 711 2011-07-03 08:41:56 <dsockwell> i hate those
 712 2011-07-03 08:42:09 <phantomcircuit> du -h ~/.bitcoin
 713 2011-07-03 08:42:37 <dsockwell> 500mb in ~/.bitcoin and then 900mb in ~/.bitcoin/database
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 715 2011-07-03 08:42:41 <dsockwell> consisting of 96 10mb files
 716 2011-07-03 08:43:17 <phantomcircuit> hmm
 717 2011-07-03 08:43:19 <phantomcircuit> restart
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 719 2011-07-03 08:43:33 <phantomcircuit> i believe those are crash logs
 720 2011-07-03 08:43:44 <dsockwell> shit.
 721 2011-07-03 08:43:48 <phantomcircuit> a write ahead log in case of crash
 722 2011-07-03 08:43:50 osmosis has joined
 723 2011-07-03 08:44:11 <phantomcircuit> dsockwell, what does debug.log look like
 724 2011-07-03 08:45:03 <dsockwell> i've been watching it for a while, there's nothing too exciting in there
 725 2011-07-03 08:45:17 <dsockwell> i did just bootstrap from 0 blocks though
 726 2011-07-03 08:45:32 <neofutur> websoket back at mtgox
 727 2011-07-03 08:45:45 <dsockwell> i restarted the client and they're gone now
 728 2011-07-03 08:45:58 <dsockwell> they appear to have built up steadily throughout the bootstrapping process
 729 2011-07-03 08:46:08 <neofutur> but the websocket is up for only hours
 730 2011-07-03 08:46:27 <neofutur> not necessarily stable / full featured yet
 731 2011-07-03 08:46:38 <neofutur> feel free to test it and report pbs on #mtgox
 732 2011-07-03 08:46:49 <dsockwell> and the creation stopped when synchronization was achieved
 733 2011-07-03 08:47:43 <dsockwell> i wonder if those are supposed to get cleaned up eventually, and i'm just especially affected because of my space limitation
 734 2011-07-03 08:48:11 <dsockwell> i'd sort of rather it happen sooner than 6h after they were created
 735 2011-07-03 08:49:12 <dsockwell> also no wonder the client blew up before when i thought i'd be good with 500MB
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 797 2011-07-03 10:58:20 <voot545> I'm trying to look in main.cpp for where execution starts, I can't seem to find it
 798 2011-07-03 10:58:29 x6763 has joined
 799 2011-07-03 10:58:44 <lfm> voot545: thats right
 800 2011-07-03 10:58:47 <BlueMatt> its in init.cpp
 801 2011-07-03 10:58:53 <voot545> ah, thanks
 802 2011-07-03 10:59:06 <BlueMatt> or, if you are in gui, ui.cpp:AppInit
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 806 2011-07-03 11:14:54 <sipa> BlueMatt: ok, another idea: expose a bool CCryptoKeyStore::ChangeMasterKey(const CMasterKey &vMasterOld, const CMasterKey &vMasterNew)
 807 2011-07-03 11:15:19 <BlueMatt> idea to fix what?
 808 2011-07-03 11:15:32 <sipa> long-locking of masterkey
 809 2011-07-03 11:15:46 <sipa> wth
 810 2011-07-03 11:15:49 <sipa> i'm stupid
 811 2011-07-03 11:16:17 <sipa> nevermind!
 812 2011-07-03 11:16:25 <BlueMatt> ok
 813 2011-07-03 11:16:41 <dsockwell> BlueMatt: i found out what my crash was, the space on my tmpfs ran out and bitcoin kindly deleted the offending files when it restarted.
 814 2011-07-03 11:16:53 <BlueMatt> ah, makes sense
 815 2011-07-03 11:17:00 <BlueMatt> thought it would have to be something like that
 816 2011-07-03 11:17:00 <dsockwell> i cranked up the space to 2GB and it just about filled that
 817 2011-07-03 11:17:23 <dsockwell> made 96 log.000000000 files in ~/.bitcoin/database, each having a size of 10MB
 818 2011-07-03 11:17:33 <dsockwell> that was during the downloading of the block chain
 819 2011-07-03 11:17:45 <BlueMatt> makes sense
 820 2011-07-03 11:17:51 <BlueMatt> it doesnt flush right until it closes
 821 2011-07-03 11:17:54 <BlueMatt> though it should
 822 2011-07-03 11:18:00 <dsockwell> i'd kind of rather it throw those away at a more convenient rate
 823 2011-07-03 11:18:12 <BlueMatt> yep, it should
 824 2011-07-03 11:20:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: ok, yet another idea: move vMasterKey from CCryptoKeyStore to CWallet, together with the lock/unlock logic, and have a virtual GetMasterKey in CCryptoKeyStore, implemented by CWallet, and a bool CCryptoKeyStore::TestMasterKey()
 825 2011-07-03 11:21:09 <sipa> that way, all management of the masterkey is done in the same place
 826 2011-07-03 11:23:24 <BlueMatt> frankly, I dont see what the huge problem is here...if someone wants to use CWallet as a lib and dont lock vMasterKey, they dont have to, it would work fine, all the functions will lock it as well
 827 2011-07-03 11:23:35 <sipa> true
 828 2011-07-03 11:23:47 <BlueMatt> there is just the chance that it gets changed between IsLocked() and whatever they are gonna do
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 830 2011-07-03 11:24:01 <sipa> agree
 831 2011-07-03 11:25:27 <sipa> i just don't like the idea of exposing a cs on an internal datastructure, only for the purpose of allowing higher-layer pieces of code to be sure it doesn't get changed
 832 2011-07-03 11:25:43 <sipa> but bitcoin does so all the time already
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 837 2011-07-03 11:37:11 <nathan7> Hi Xunie
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 850 2011-07-03 11:55:09 <Xunie> nathan7, ahoy!
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 858 2011-07-03 12:20:45 <zamgo> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification  is very good detailed information about the protocol.  Is there the same depth of info available for db formats of addr.bat, blk0001.dat, blkindex.dat, and wallet.dat ?
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 862 2011-07-03 12:21:56 <sipa> addr.dat, blkindex.dat and wallet.dat are bdb database files
 863 2011-07-03 12:22:06 <zamgo> yes
 864 2011-07-03 12:22:08 <sipa> blk0001.dat is a concatenation of bitcoin blocks
 865 2011-07-03 12:22:27 <sipa> and a good specification would be nice, but i don't think it's written down anywhere
 866 2011-07-03 12:22:45 <zamgo> so I'm using Berkeley DB 4.7.25
 867 2011-07-03 12:23:10 <zamgo> db_verify blk0001.dat comes up with pretty errors, all the other *.dat's verify ok, and db_dump  ok
 868 2011-07-03 12:23:23 <sipa> blk0001.dat is no bdb file
 869 2011-07-03 12:23:26 <zamgo> ah!
 870 2011-07-03 12:23:30 <sipa> it's just a concatenation of bitcoin blocks
 871 2011-07-03 12:23:34 <zamgo> duh on me
 872 2011-07-03 12:23:58 <zamgo> ok, that makes sense now
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 875 2011-07-03 12:39:52 <diki> ;;bc,stats
 876 2011-07-03 12:39:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134546 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 525 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 1 hour, 47 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1582405.42663260
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 904 2011-07-03 13:42:41 <sipa> BlueMatt: i just realized: CPrivKey (ssl-serialized private key) is now used as a way for passing private keys around, but that's a detour
 905 2011-07-03 13:43:19 <BlueMatt> you mean we should pass CSecrets around?
 906 2011-07-03 13:43:40 <sipa> eg. if you do a GetPrivKey on a CCryptoKeyStore, it will construct a CKey, use SetSecret to rebuild it, use GetPrivKey to serialize it, return the CPrivKey to the caller, which will use it to initialize a CKey again, and do a signature with that CKey
 907 2011-07-03 13:44:08 <sipa> you can just return a CKey: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/220ce9244deb4257592dbcd386f7fc1ff92db98f
 908 2011-07-03 13:44:24 <BlueMatt> oh, well yea that too
 909 2011-07-03 13:44:59 <sipa> there are now two separate serialized formats for CKey's, but if you request one, you want to get a CKey eventually anyway
 910 2011-07-03 13:45:21 <BlueMatt> yep, looks good Ill put that in the pull...
 911 2011-07-03 13:45:21 <Eremes> any 5970 users here ? wanna know how much MH it made
 912 2011-07-03 13:45:47 <BlueMatt> as a side note, do you happen to know on what os gavin used to build the linux releases when he did that?
 913 2011-07-03 13:46:01 <BlueMatt> Eremes: #bitcoin-mining
 914 2011-07-03 13:46:07 <sipa> BlueMatt: not sure
 915 2011-07-03 13:46:31 <Eremes> BlueMatt: thanks
 916 2011-07-03 13:48:34 <BlueMatt> maybe he wasnt using an lts...
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 920 2011-07-03 13:55:11 <b4epoche_> good morning
 921 2011-07-03 13:56:03 <JRWR> Morning!
 922 2011-07-03 13:57:45 suriv has joined
 923 2011-07-03 13:57:48 <sipa> i wonder what the correct behaviour should be if we want to decouple the location of wallet.dat with that of the other database files
 924 2011-07-03 13:59:08 <sipa> would you have the database log files in a subdir of the wallet.dat's location, or combined with the rest, eg.
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 926 2011-07-03 13:59:37 <sipa> if your wallet.dat is on a memory stick, you don't want any log files there
 927 2011-07-03 13:59:49 <BlueMatt> you would absolutely do a different Dbenv so the logs are with the wallet
 928 2011-07-03 13:59:53 <BlueMatt> yes you do
 929 2011-07-03 14:00:07 <BlueMatt> and if your wallet crashes and you move the crashed wallet to another machine?
 930 2011-07-03 14:00:14 <BlueMatt> it cant recover because it doesnt have logs
 931 2011-07-03 14:00:25 <BlueMatt> and if it does have logs, they are likely for another wallet, which would just kill you
 932 2011-07-03 14:00:36 * b4epoche_ is unfamiliar with the way bdb does things, but what are the logs used for other the information that isn't 'needed'?
 933 2011-07-03 14:00:47 <sipa> well, an alternative is having the wallet.dat renamed to wallet.dat_locked or something when opening
 934 2011-07-03 14:00:48 <neofutur> but too much logs could kill you usb stick . . .
 935 2011-07-03 14:00:49 <BlueMatt> its the safe-write model
 936 2011-07-03 14:00:58 <sipa> and renamed back when closing
 937 2011-07-03 14:01:10 <BlueMatt> write to log what you are going to do, do it, remove from log
 938 2011-07-03 14:01:12 <b4epoche_> ah, BlueMatt, thanks for unintentionally answering my question
 939 2011-07-03 14:01:19 <sipa> or an "in use" value written to it
 940 2011-07-03 14:01:31 <sipa> so you get a warning/error when opening it on a different system
 941 2011-07-03 14:02:42 <BlueMatt> well I suppose you could do that, but then people are likely to just remove the .lock all the time...
 942 2011-07-03 14:02:47 <BlueMatt> what do other programs do?
 943 2011-07-03 14:03:45 <b4epoche_> not use bdb
 944 2011-07-03 14:03:57 <BlueMatt> got a better suggestion?
 945 2011-07-03 14:04:17 <b4epoche_> you asked what others do ;-)
 946 2011-07-03 14:04:24 <BlueMatt> people always say use something else, but never have a better thing to use
 947 2011-07-03 14:04:44 <sipa> sqlite is a possibility
 948 2011-07-03 14:04:45 <BlueMatt> many, many programs use bdb
 949 2011-07-03 14:04:52 <sipa> but overkill
 950 2011-07-03 14:04:53 <b4epoche_> I know
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 952 2011-07-03 14:05:34 <b4epoche_> how likely is it that a db gets corrupt?
 953 2011-07-03 14:05:52 <sipa> bitcoin crashes do occur
 954 2011-07-03 14:05:53 <BlueMatt> pretty rarely, but addr.dat does quite often if bitcoin crashes
 955 2011-07-03 14:05:55 <b4epoche_> can you do something like wallet.bak?
 956 2011-07-03 14:06:29 <BlueMatt> but if we have logs, a bdb crash means little as it typically can recover just fine
 957 2011-07-03 14:06:41 Kothar is now known as kon
 958 2011-07-03 14:07:22 <b4epoche_> at some point, isn't the idea that only keys will be stored in wallet?
 959 2011-07-03 14:07:34 <sipa> where would the rest go?
 960 2011-07-03 14:07:47 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
 961 2011-07-03 14:07:47 <sipa> wallet.dat now contains all 'personal' data
 962 2011-07-03 14:07:59 <sipa> you'd have to move the rest around with it
 963 2011-07-03 14:08:00 <b4epoche_> yea, I know, and preference, etc.
 964 2011-07-03 14:08:08 <BlueMatt> well settings could be moved to an os-specific thing
 965 2011-07-03 14:08:14 <sipa> agree
 966 2011-07-03 14:08:18 <BlueMatt> but keys/txes/etc will always be in wallet
 967 2011-07-03 14:08:29 <b4epoche_> okay, yea, was not thinking about 'moving' it around
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 969 2011-07-03 14:09:00 <b4epoche_> but you could always make backup files whenever something changes.
 970 2011-07-03 14:09:05 <BlueMatt> master crypto keys could also go in os-specific things, esp for mac which has their own system for how to handle passwords and such
 971 2011-07-03 14:09:14 molecular has joined
 972 2011-07-03 14:09:34 <BlueMatt> but I just dont know how comfortable I am with that...
 973 2011-07-03 14:09:36 <b4epoche_> are new keys generated frequently?  i.e. does it always keep ~100 keys ?
 974 2011-07-03 14:11:53 <b4epoche_> can tx's be 'regenerated'?
 975 2011-07-03 14:12:24 <sipa> yes, from the block chain
 976 2011-07-03 14:12:34 <sipa> but they won't have all the necessary information
 977 2011-07-03 14:12:39 <b4epoche_> don't windows and linux (depending on flavor) have 'keychains'?
 978 2011-07-03 14:12:43 <sipa> such as accounts
 979 2011-07-03 14:13:11 <BlueMatt> Windows, not an encrypted one, linux...Im not 100% sure, but I think both kde and gnome have one
 980 2011-07-03 14:13:15 <b4epoche_> accounts?  stuff in addr.dat?
 981 2011-07-03 14:13:22 <BlueMatt> addr is addresses
 982 2011-07-03 14:13:28 <BlueMatt> as in ip addresses of other nodes
 983 2011-07-03 14:13:36 <b4epoche_> yea, but what are accounts?
 984 2011-07-03 14:13:48 <BlueMatt> a poorly-implemented "feature"
 985 2011-07-03 14:13:50 <b4epoche_> oh, duh, write
 986 2011-07-03 14:13:56 <b4epoche_> right
 987 2011-07-03 14:14:05 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Accounts_explained
 988 2011-07-03 14:14:25 <b4epoche_> I'm always confused because it's called Addresses in the UI
 989 2011-07-03 14:14:35 <sipa> no, addresses are something else
 990 2011-07-03 14:14:43 <sipa> they're related to labels in the gui
 991 2011-07-03 14:14:46 <sipa> but not the same thing
 992 2011-07-03 14:15:00 <b4epoche_> yea, I know the difference...  just get them mixed up
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 995 2011-07-03 14:16:09 <b4epoche_> but I think always have a wallet.bak would be an okay way to handle wallet.dat corruption
 996 2011-07-03 14:16:15 kon is now known as Kothar
 997 2011-07-03 14:16:53 <BlueMatt> not a bad idea...but we should solve the problem instead of hacking around it
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1000 2011-07-03 14:17:39 <b4epoche_> that's not really hacking around it...
1001 2011-07-03 14:17:56 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ffs dont tell people to use accounts
1002 2011-07-03 14:18:04 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
1003 2011-07-03 14:18:12 <b4epoche_> well, maybe, but having logs is also 'hacking around it'
1004 2011-07-03 14:18:42 <b4epoche_> having a db not get corrupt on a bitcoin crash would be 'solving it'
1005 2011-07-03 14:18:54 <phantomcircuit> cant do that
1006 2011-07-03 14:19:06 <BlueMatt> well having logs is part of the db, making a backup would be like saying "well we are screwed anyway, so lets have a way to recover when the inevitable occurs", I agree that a backup would be a good additional measure, but its not a solution
1007 2011-07-03 14:19:18 <phantomcircuit> with the current code base turning off asynchronous writes would be disastrous to performance
1008 2011-07-03 14:21:00 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i don't
1009 2011-07-03 14:21:22 <sipa> but accounts (as they are implemented now), are a very useful feature for some particular use cases
1010 2011-07-03 14:22:33 <BlueMatt> yay, now to build bitcoin, you have to download a 1.3GB iso from m$ for one little header file...oh wtf?
1011 2011-07-03 14:22:47 <sipa> ?
1012 2011-07-03 14:22:57 <BlueMatt> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24841.0
1013 2011-07-03 14:23:19 <BlueMatt> that file you can only get through the "Windows Platform SDK" which is a lovely 1.3GB iso
1014 2011-07-03 14:23:27 <sipa> nice
1015 2011-07-03 14:23:34 <b4epoche_> is LGPL compatible with bitcoin client?
1016 2011-07-03 14:23:45 <BlueMatt> for commit, no
1017 2011-07-03 14:23:57 <BlueMatt> depends what you mean by compatible
1018 2011-07-03 14:24:09 <BlueMatt> can bitcoin go in lgpl code, yea, can lgpl code go in bitcoin, dont think so
1019 2011-07-03 14:24:22 <b4epoche_> well, the only c-based QR code generator I could find is LGPL
1020 2011-07-03 14:24:32 <BlueMatt> then it cant go in bitcoin
1021 2011-07-03 14:24:39 <sipa> not sure about that
1022 2011-07-03 14:24:39 <BlueMatt> (IIRC)
1023 2011-07-03 14:24:54 koleg has joined
1024 2011-07-03 14:24:57 <sipa> MIT license does not restrict what is distributed along with it
1025 2011-07-03 14:25:03 <b4epoche_> it's really strange...  lots of Java, PHP generators but only qrencode for C
1026 2011-07-03 14:25:10 <BlueMatt> yes, but its a question of will we pull it, no
1027 2011-07-03 14:25:19 <BlueMatt> can he release them together, absolutely
1028 2011-07-03 14:25:39 <sipa> whether we 'can' or 'will' is a different question :)
1029 2011-07-03 14:25:40 <b4epoche_> it's also strange because there are many QR code reader libs that don't generate
1030 2011-07-03 14:26:16 <BlueMatt> ok, fine we can, but wont
1031 2011-07-03 14:26:20 <b4epoche_> is was hoping to use zxing but that only reads
1032 2011-07-03 14:26:26 <b4epoche_> -is
1033 2011-07-03 14:26:48 <BlueMatt> solution-find a js mit parser, and use some of the js libs :)
1034 2011-07-03 14:27:11 <b4epoche_> eh?
1035 2011-07-03 14:27:30 <b4epoche_> or use Facebooks PHP to C stuff
1036 2011-07-03 14:27:34 <sipa> haha
1037 2011-07-03 14:27:41 <sipa> or reimplement it yourself
1038 2011-07-03 14:27:43 <BlueMatt> I dont know, but tcatm generates qr codes in js-ui so...
1039 2011-07-03 14:27:46 nefario has joined
1040 2011-07-03 14:27:57 <BlueMatt> sipa: na, adding 20 more libs and wrappers is way more fun
1041 2011-07-03 14:28:13 <b4epoche_> js-ui?
1042 2011-07-03 14:28:21 <BlueMatt> bitcoin-js-ui
1043 2011-07-03 14:28:27 <b4epoche_> where?
1044 2011-07-03 14:28:38 <BlueMatt> github.com/tcatm
1045 2011-07-03 14:28:49 <b4epoche_> web based?  you sure he's not generating on server?
1046 2011-07-03 14:28:55 <BlueMatt> yea, webbased
1047 2011-07-03 14:29:05 <BlueMatt> though I cant say for sure qr isnt pulling another server
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1049 2011-07-03 14:30:18 <b4epoche_> 			var QRurl = 'https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?chs=' + size + 'x' + size + '&cht=qr&chl=' + uri + '&choe=UTF-8';
1050 2011-07-03 14:30:18 <b4epoche_> 			var html = '<img src="' + QRurl + '" />';
1051 2011-07-03 14:30:23 <BlueMatt> nope, nvm
1052 2011-07-03 14:30:38 <BlueMatt> well you could always just pull that too...
1053 2011-07-03 14:31:17 <b4epoche_> I suppose that would be really easy, at least with cocoa...  not sure about wx/boost
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1055 2011-07-03 14:31:50 <BlueMatt> that was about as much a joke as earlier
1056 2011-07-03 14:31:52 <BlueMatt> dont do that
1057 2011-07-03 14:32:13 <b4epoche_> was just going to say I don't really like that solution...
1058 2011-07-03 14:32:27 <b4epoche_> better keep things local/bundled
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1060 2011-07-03 14:33:16 <nefario> looking to get a signed ssl cert
1061 2011-07-03 14:33:25 <nefario> anyone know a site that accepts btc?
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1063 2011-07-03 14:33:31 <b4epoche_> what should the QR code of a privKey represent?  the base58 representation?
1064 2011-07-03 14:34:00 <sipa> b4epoche_: my dumpprivkey patch defines a base58 format for private keys
1065 2011-07-03 14:34:15 <b4epoche_> sipa:  using that
1066 2011-07-03 14:35:01 <sipa> it's very comparable to the address format
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1068 2011-07-03 14:35:30 <b4epoche_> wants to generate privKey QR codes for printable backup...  so I just want to know what the thinking is about privKey human-readable formats
1069 2011-07-03 14:35:46 <b4epoche_> anyway, I'll just generate a QR from the base58 format
1070 2011-07-03 14:35:54 <sipa> just know that QR is very inefficient for base58 material
1071 2011-07-03 14:36:05 <sipa> you want base36 actually, QR is optimized for that
1072 2011-07-03 14:36:09 <sipa> or just numbers
1073 2011-07-03 14:36:41 <b4epoche_> 36?  no lower/upper case?
1074 2011-07-03 14:36:50 <sipa> all uppercase, indeed
1075 2011-07-03 14:37:07 <sipa> QR has 4 encoding modes, numeric, alphanumeric, 8-bit, and kanji
1076 2011-07-03 14:37:24 <sipa> the alphanumeric encoding does not support lowercase character
1077 2011-07-03 14:37:34 <sipa> so it will switch to 8-bit encoding for base58 material
1078 2011-07-03 14:37:36 <b4epoche_> ah, was reading about that last night
1079 2011-07-03 14:37:59 <b4epoche_> didn't realize the limits of alphanumeric
1080 2011-07-03 14:38:27 <sipa> also, you may want some metadata in backups of private keys
1081 2011-07-03 14:38:33 <sipa> such as the first block where they are used
1082 2011-07-03 14:38:53 <xelister> b4epoche_: yo my buddy did same thing like yesterday
1083 2011-07-03 14:39:03 <xelister> b4epoche_: you want to bacup wallet to paper?
1084 2011-07-03 14:39:15 <b4epoche_> was thinking about adding that
1085 2011-07-03 14:39:22 <xelister> most easy way I found is to use optar progtram that creates a big QR like images for any datafile
1086 2011-07-03 14:39:39 <xelister> edit the sources easly to increase the dot size thoug
1087 2011-07-03 14:39:55 <b4epoche_> what?  wallet.dat -> QR?
1088 2011-07-03 14:39:59 <xelister> a wallet should take 3-4 pages
1089 2011-07-03 14:40:08 Gonzago has joined
1090 2011-07-03 14:40:13 <xelister> well it is like QR but takes entire page and has say 100x100 dots per page
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1092 2011-07-03 14:40:49 <b4epoche_> and how do you read it?  scanner?
1093 2011-07-03 14:41:03 <sipa> my dumpwallet patch creates dumps that are a lot smaller than the wallet.dat file :)
1094 2011-07-03 14:41:08 <sipa> and they're already human readable
1095 2011-07-03 14:41:16 <b4epoche_> sipa:  yea
1096 2011-07-03 14:41:30 <xelister> b4epoche_: yes, scaner
1097 2011-07-03 14:41:32 <b4epoche_> I mean, I could just print the base58 rep
1098 2011-07-03 14:41:49 <xelister> b4epoche_: we tried it, it worked, even if paper was damaged a bit (few spots, dust etc)
1099 2011-07-03 14:41:54 <b4epoche_> print base58, scan, OCR would be easier than a page of QR
1100 2011-07-03 14:42:13 <xelister> well I found the QR-like idea nicer
1101 2011-07-03 14:42:40 <sipa> maybe dumpwallet can support encryption pass-through for encrypted wallets
1102 2011-07-03 14:42:41 <xelister> if a spot covers 3 digits on your printout - you are done,
1103 2011-07-03 14:42:48 <xelister> and OPTAR will just repair this
1104 2011-07-03 14:42:58 <xelister> sipa: use gpg -c like a white person
1105 2011-07-03 14:43:06 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
1106 2011-07-03 14:43:08 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134569 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 502 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 22 hours, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1589800.43256655
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1108 2011-07-03 14:45:22 <b4epoche_> sipa:  doesn't mapDump contain all the keys?
1109 2011-07-03 14:45:32 <sipa> mapDump?
1110 2011-07-03 14:45:46 <sipa> ah, in my patch
1111 2011-07-03 14:45:50 <b4epoche_> yea
1112 2011-07-03 14:45:57 <b4epoche_> nm
1113 2011-07-03 14:46:03 <b4epoche_> it did spit them all out
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1120 2011-07-03 14:56:43 <denisx> is it advisable that any miner has his own worker in pushpoold?
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1124 2011-07-03 15:03:27 <b4epoche_> dumb question:  what's a .la lib?
1125 2011-07-03 15:05:28 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r6cb0940 / native.cc : Fixed double free in base58_encode(). - http://bit.ly/iTcXO2
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1135 2011-07-03 15:23:04 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * rd547a44 / src/main.cpp : Block-chain lock-in at 134444 - http://bit.ly/jAr00V
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1150 2011-07-03 15:37:20 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
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1153 2011-07-03 15:46:39 <sipa> estimated total number of hashes performed by the network: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/hashes.png
1154 2011-07-03 15:48:35 <b4epoche_> interesting graph
1155 2011-07-03 15:49:31 <b4epoche_> seems to have gone from linear to exp around Jun '10
1156 2011-07-03 15:50:06 <nidefawl> it will explode
1157 2011-07-03 15:50:19 <nidefawl> and crash! SELL NOW!
1158 2011-07-03 15:50:24 <sipa> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-ever.png is easier to see that
1159 2011-07-03 15:51:07 germanMNY has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1160 2011-07-03 15:51:20 <b4epoche_> what happened in Jun?  GPU mining?
1161 2011-07-03 15:51:28 <sipa> slashdot
1162 2011-07-03 15:51:33 <nidefawl> oh
1163 2011-07-03 15:51:37 <nidefawl> wow
1164 2011-07-03 15:51:39 <sipa> gpu mining was a few months later
1165 2011-07-03 15:52:19 <justmoon> anybody understand getwork's hash1 - I can see the code that generates, I see satoshi's post saying it's a "formatted hash buffer for second hash", but what the hell is it for? I don't get it :(
1166 2011-07-03 15:52:28 <justmoon> generates it*
1167 2011-07-03 15:52:39 <sipa> justmoon: it's the hash after one sha256 step
1168 2011-07-03 15:52:45 <sipa> sorry, no
1169 2011-07-03 15:52:56 <b4epoche_> I'm surprised there wasn't a sharp increase when GPU miners became available...  unless that was a gradual transition
1170 2011-07-03 15:52:57 <sipa> bitcoin hashes is double sha256 on a 80-byte buffer
1171 2011-07-03 15:53:12 <justmoon> sipa: ok, following so far
1172 2011-07-03 15:53:22 <mtrlt> it is a buffer with the sha-256 padding
1173 2011-07-03 15:53:29 <sipa> as sha256 progresses by taking 64-byte blocks, it needs to do two blocks for the first sha256 step
1174 2011-07-03 15:53:32 <mtrlt> for 80 bytes.
1175 2011-07-03 15:53:35 <nidefawl> b4epoche the scale is already exp
1176 2011-07-03 15:53:52 <sipa> and then one other third sha256 step for the second step
1177 2011-07-03 15:53:53 <sipa> ok?
1178 2011-07-03 15:54:00 <b4epoche_> nidefawl:  I know
1179 2011-07-03 15:54:10 <b4epoche_> a line would be exp growth
1180 2011-07-03 15:54:33 <sipa> total hashes on linear scale: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/hashes-lin.png
1181 2011-07-03 15:54:58 <justmoon> sipa: ok, hmm, I don't understand sha256 well enough, but thanks for the explanation, some googling and I should get it now I think
1182 2011-07-03 15:55:15 <nidefawl> now that looks fun
1183 2011-07-03 15:55:44 <sipa> justmoon: sha256 on a 80-byte buffer is essentially sha256block(second64bytes,sha256block(first64bytes,[]))
1184 2011-07-03 15:56:11 <justmoon> I see
1185 2011-07-03 15:56:13 <sipa> *last16bytes
1186 2011-07-03 15:56:18 <Diablo-D3> yes, and the whole hashing process is 3 blocks
1187 2011-07-03 15:56:22 sacredchao has joined
1188 2011-07-03 15:56:30 <justmoon> hmm I had a different thought just now, hash1 is always the same right?
1189 2011-07-03 15:56:31 <sipa> justmoon: so the whole bitcoin hash is sha256block(sha256block(last16bytes,sha256block(first64bytes,[])),[])
1190 2011-07-03 15:56:36 <justmoon> so I could just include it as a constant?
1191 2011-07-03 15:56:41 <sipa> no it's not constant
1192 2011-07-03 15:56:41 <Diablo-D3> sha256(sha256()), where the inner does 2 blocks on a 80 (padded to 128) header
1193 2011-07-03 15:56:49 <mtrlt> justmoon: it is a buffer with the sha-256 padding that you can do yourself
1194 2011-07-03 15:56:54 <sipa> but it only depends on the first 64 bytes of the header
1195 2011-07-03 15:56:56 <mtrlt> sipa: you're talking about midstate? hash1 is just the padding
1196 2011-07-03 15:57:02 <Diablo-D3> justmoon: miners already shortcut the first block
1197 2011-07-03 15:57:06 <sipa> mtrlt: oh my, you're right
1198 2011-07-03 15:57:13 <justmoon> Diablo-D3, I'm writing a client, not a miner
1199 2011-07-03 15:57:19 <Diablo-D3> ahh
1200 2011-07-03 15:58:19 eureka^ has joined
1201 2011-07-03 15:58:54 <justmoon> yeah, hash1 is definitely constant - it only depends on its own length and that's always sizeof(uint256)
1202 2011-07-03 15:59:15 <mtrlt> no
1203 2011-07-03 15:59:20 <mtrlt> it depends on the length of the block header
1204 2011-07-03 15:59:22 <mtrlt> ..which is always constant
1205 2011-07-03 15:59:29 <justmoon> FormatHashBlocks(&tmp.hash1, sizeof(tmp.hash1));
1206 2011-07-03 15:59:41 <justmoon> sizeof(tmp.hash1) - tmp.hash1 is defined as uint256
1207 2011-07-03 16:01:21 zapnap has joined
1208 2011-07-03 16:02:40 <justmoon> alright, I got it! generating midstate will be a bit tricky, but I understand what it is now
1209 2011-07-03 16:02:53 <justmoon> thanks sipa, mtrlt
1210 2011-07-03 16:03:26 <sipa> justmoon: you can't do midstate without access to sha256's internal datastructures
1211 2011-07-03 16:03:54 <Diablo-D3> midstate is just what A through H look like after the first block of the inner sha256
1212 2011-07-03 16:04:24 <zapnap> bummer, still having connection issues with pushpool. can anyone help?
1213 2011-07-03 16:04:57 <zapnap> if i telnet-connect to it, it sees the connection. but if i use a client (diablominer or phoenix) it never seems to connect
1214 2011-07-03 16:04:59 <zapnap> weeeird
1215 2011-07-03 16:05:16 <zapnap> (tried both the binary and json-rpc protocol)
1216 2011-07-03 16:06:03 <justmoon> sipa, yep, I understand that - I've got a native C++ extension I might pack it in there, or I might build something based on a javascript sha256 implementation - both approaches should work
1217 2011-07-03 16:06:07 Soak has joined
1218 2011-07-03 16:08:40 <denisx> zapnap: did you start the pushpoold with -D 2?
1219 2011-07-03 16:08:49 <zapnap> denisx: yup
1220 2011-07-03 16:08:56 <denisx> and what does it say?
1221 2011-07-03 16:08:59 <zapnap> like i said, seeing output when i telnet in ("client connected")
1222 2011-07-03 16:09:02 <zapnap> but seeing nothing when my clients connect
1223 2011-07-03 16:09:03 <zapnap> nothing at all
1224 2011-07-03 16:09:14 Clipse has joined
1225 2011-07-03 16:09:22 <Diablo-D3> zapnap: $5 says your port is wrong
1226 2011-07-03 16:09:28 <denisx> zapnap: the also simply open a connection, you MUST see it then
1227 2011-07-03 16:09:33 <denisx> the client
1228 2011-07-03 16:09:36 <zapnap> Diablo-D3: i think you'll probably lose that 5 bucks :)
1229 2011-07-03 16:09:43 <zapnap> as i've triple checked that
1230 2011-07-03 16:09:58 <denisx> can I connect to it?
1231 2011-07-03 16:10:00 <zapnap> and wireshark-snooped it
1232 2011-07-03 16:10:08 <zapnap> denisx: unfortunately it's only on my local net :/
1233 2011-07-03 16:10:10 <denisx> firewall?
1234 2011-07-03 16:10:22 <zapnap> nope, same  host even. i'm really scratching my head...
1235 2011-07-03 16:10:48 <denisx> try another port
1236 2011-07-03 16:10:58 nathan7 has left ()
1237 2011-07-03 16:11:08 <zapnap> good call, will do
1238 2011-07-03 16:11:29 <zapnap> (using 8337 btw, bitcoind itself running on 8332)
1239 2011-07-03 16:11:36 <zapnap> i'm assuming i should be using the json-rpc protocol?
1240 2011-07-03 16:12:01 <denisx> I would put bitcoind on another port and would use 8332 for pushpoold
1241 2011-07-03 16:12:10 <zapnap> ok
1242 2011-07-03 16:12:26 LanceRushing has joined
1243 2011-07-03 16:12:53 <b4epoche_> n00b bit operation question:  what's the best way to get the last bit of a byte?
1244 2011-07-03 16:13:45 <denisx> & 0x01
1245 2011-07-03 16:13:46 <gribble> Error: "0x01" is not a valid command.
1246 2011-07-03 16:13:47 magn3ts has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1247 2011-07-03 16:13:51 <denisx>  & 0x01
1248 2011-07-03 16:14:04 <b4epoche_> thx...
1249 2011-07-03 16:14:21 <denisx> with big endian it is & 0x80
1250 2011-07-03 16:15:14 <zapnap> denisx: hmm now i'm getting 403s... progress.
1251 2011-07-03 16:15:19 eureka^ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1252 2011-07-03 16:15:32 <zapnap> but oddly, the server still shows no output (seeing 403 from diablo)
1253 2011-07-03 16:15:40 <zapnap> even with -D 2
1254 2011-07-03 16:15:52 <zapnap> before i was getting a connection refused from diablo
1255 2011-07-03 16:16:16 <zapnap> ah shit, no, that's because i'm dumb. i didn't change the diablo port number. so it's trying to connect directly to bitcoind now.
1256 2011-07-03 16:16:19 <zapnap> lemme switch that
1257 2011-07-03 16:16:30 <Diablo-D3> dont use -D, bad mojo
1258 2011-07-03 16:16:38 <Diablo-D3> zapnap: HAHAHAH
1259 2011-07-03 16:16:43 <Diablo-D3> [12:07:19] <Diablo-D3> zapnap: $5 says your port is wrong
1260 2011-07-03 16:16:54 <zapnap> Diablo-D3: dude :p i just changed the ports
1261 2011-07-03 16:17:02 <zapnap> denisx suggested switching them
1262 2011-07-03 16:17:04 magn3ts has joined
1263 2011-07-03 16:17:15 <zapnap> same issue here. 403s.
1264 2011-07-03 16:17:24 <zapnap> why is -D "bad mojo"??
1265 2011-07-03 16:17:27 RobinPKR has quit (Quit: RobinPKR)
1266 2011-07-03 16:17:34 eureka^ has joined
1267 2011-07-03 16:17:46 <denisx> zapnap: is your database running, can pushpool connect  to a bitcoin server?
1268 2011-07-03 16:17:56 LanceRushing has quit (Quit: LanceRushing)
1269 2011-07-03 16:18:03 <zapnap> pushpool can connect to bitcoind, db is up
1270 2011-07-03 16:18:15 <denisx> how about memcached?
1271 2011-07-03 16:18:17 <zapnap> it's not showing me any output that would indicate the contrary (but i guess debug output may suck)
1272 2011-07-03 16:18:27 <zapnap> memcache also up, receiving connections. port and host info should match.
1273 2011-07-03 16:18:29 magn3ts has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1274 2011-07-03 16:18:38 <denisx> zapnap: and the db has the right tables setup?
1275 2011-07-03 16:18:47 <zapnap> i'm guessing at least one of those is somehow wrong. but i'm amazed that there isn't any output here
1276 2011-07-03 16:18:55 <zapnap> denisx: yes, theoreitcally :)
1277 2011-07-03 16:19:00 <zapnap> theoretically, even :)
1278 2011-07-03 16:19:37 magn3ts has joined
1279 2011-07-03 16:19:53 <zapnap> ok, rolling back some local changes i get a new issue
1280 2011-07-03 16:20:00 <zapnap> ERROR: Can't connect to Bitcoin: Bitcoin disconnected during response: 400 invalid args
1281 2011-07-03 16:20:29 <denisx> zapnap: you need to change teh pushpool config to reflect the new bitcoind port
1282 2011-07-03 16:20:31 <zapnap> so at least it seems to be communicating now. i guess i'm just surprised there's no indication of the connection via client, but there is from a telnet connection. bizarre.
1283 2011-07-03 16:20:41 <zapnap> denisx: yes, i've done that.
1284 2011-07-03 16:20:47 <zapnap> the rpc.url is changed, and the listen port is changed
1285 2011-07-03 16:20:57 <denisx> you only see accepted shares in the output
1286 2011-07-03 16:21:03 <denisx> not every connect I guess
1287 2011-07-03 16:21:11 <zapnap> denisx: but if i telnet-connect, i see it in the debug output
1288 2011-07-03 16:21:15 <zapnap> if i client-connect, i do not
1289 2011-07-03 16:21:28 <zapnap> [2011-07-03 15:56:58.617982] client host 192.168.1.119 port 58898 connected
1290 2011-07-03 16:21:43 eureka^ has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
1291 2011-07-03 16:21:43 <zapnap> i guess that's what led me to asking in the first place
1292 2011-07-03 16:21:55 <denisx> and diablo gets no work?
1293 2011-07-03 16:22:08 <zapnap> diablo gets a "can't connect" error
1294 2011-07-03 16:22:11 hahuang6_ has joined
1295 2011-07-03 16:22:13 <zapnap> [7/3/11 12:17:34 PM] ERROR: Can't connect to Bitcoin: Bitcoin disconnected during response: 400 invalid args
1296 2011-07-03 16:22:32 <zapnap> i'm going to have to fire tcpdump up on this i guess
1297 2011-07-03 16:22:58 <denisx> zapnap: one question? is your bitcoin port open to the public?
1298 2011-07-03 16:23:20 <zapnap> it's not open to anyone outside of my local (private) network
1299 2011-07-03 16:23:29 <zapnap> but it should be accessible to hosts on my net
1300 2011-07-03 16:23:30 <denisx> zapnap: has it at least one connection?
1301 2011-07-03 16:23:42 jzknight has joined
1302 2011-07-03 16:23:48 <zapnap> it reports 1 connections atm
1303 2011-07-03 16:24:15 <denisx> maybe thats pushpoold
1304 2011-07-03 16:24:18 RobinPKR has joined
1305 2011-07-03 16:24:20 netsky has joined
1306 2011-07-03 16:24:29 <denisx> bitcoind can't distribute work without connection to another node
1307 2011-07-03 16:24:30 <zapnap> denisx: well, i just ctrl-c'd pushpool
1308 2011-07-03 16:24:34 <zapnap> and it's still showing 1 connections
1309 2011-07-03 16:24:36 <denisx> ok
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1314 2011-07-03 16:25:13 <zapnap> denisx: my bitcoin.conf is stock, except for rpcuser and rpcpassword (and now rpcport)
1315 2011-07-03 16:25:58 <denisx> how about rpcallowip
1316 2011-07-03 16:26:17 <zapnap> denisx: not explicitly set
1317 2011-07-03 16:26:25 <denisx> try it
1318 2011-07-03 16:26:33 <zapnap> will do
1319 2011-07-03 16:27:04 RobinPKR has quit (Client Quit)
1320 2011-07-03 16:27:34 <zapnap> bummer, same issue
1321 2011-07-03 16:28:00 jzknight has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1322 2011-07-03 16:28:02 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1323 2011-07-03 16:28:09 <denisx> hmm, then I don't know ;)
1324 2011-07-03 16:28:19 <zapnap> well, thanks for your help anyway. very much appreciated.
1325 2011-07-03 16:28:45 <zapnap> i'll re-test it on my linux box too, to sanity check
1326 2011-07-03 16:29:17 zamgo has quit ()
1327 2011-07-03 16:29:41 <b4epoche_> sorry for the dumb questions:  but *qr_code->data & 0x01 where qr_code->data is unsigned char just gives me all 0x01
1328 2011-07-03 16:30:11 <b4epoche_> nm, duh
1329 2011-07-03 16:31:14 <denisx> then try with 0x80
1330 2011-07-03 16:33:15 hahuang6_ has quit ()
1331 2011-07-03 16:33:42 <denisx> zapnap: I have rpcurl in bitcoin on 9332 and in pushpool I have rpc.url with :9332
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1335 2011-07-03 16:34:17 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
1336 2011-07-03 16:34:46 <zapnap> denisx: in my pushpool json config i have
1337 2011-07-03 16:34:49 <zapnap>   "rpc.url" : "http://127.0.0.1:8337/",
1338 2011-07-03 16:35:15 <apr> I have a pushpool problem also, any pushpool experts/devs here?
1339 2011-07-03 16:35:15 <zapnap> and in bitcoin.conf
1340 2011-07-03 16:35:16 <zapnap> rpcport=8337
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1354 2011-07-03 17:01:38 AAA_awright has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
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1358 2011-07-03 17:02:15 <roconnor> finally. my code no longer parses TxOut scripts until they are used.
1359 2011-07-03 17:02:50 <apr> any reason why pushpoold (if anyone knows about it) would just hang / not reply?
1360 2011-07-03 17:03:43 <zapnap> apr: i wish i knew :)
1361 2011-07-03 17:03:52 <zapnap> apr: have you set up your config?
1362 2011-07-03 17:03:56 <zapnap> btw, what os are you on?
1363 2011-07-03 17:04:04 <apr> debian, and yes the config i think is all correct :(
1364 2011-07-03 17:04:14 <zapnap> try running with -E -D 2?
1365 2011-07-03 17:05:12 <apr> yeah :( it's not outputting anything
1366 2011-07-03 17:05:17 <apr> it's wierd too becuase first time i connect
1367 2011-07-03 17:05:26 <apr> and do "get /" i get back a 400 back request
1368 2011-07-03 17:05:35 <apr> then, it just hangs if i connect to it again
1369 2011-07-03 17:05:36 <apr> bad *
1370 2011-07-03 17:06:23 darbsllim has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1371 2011-07-03 17:06:35 Strogge has quit ()
1372 2011-07-03 17:06:53 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell gavinandresen Do you happen to know off-hand what version of ubuntuyou had been building Bitcoin from?
1373 2011-07-03 17:06:54 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1374 2011-07-03 17:08:12 <zapnap> apr: sounds similar to what i'm seeing. if i try to telnet connect to the port it's listening on, i get a 400
1375 2011-07-03 17:08:18 <zapnap> and it registers the request
1376 2011-07-03 17:08:27 <zapnap> but if i try to connect with a client, i see no output
1377 2011-07-03 17:08:28 <apr> yes, but only once right?
1378 2011-07-03 17:08:36 <zapnap> let me recheck
1379 2011-07-03 17:08:44 <apr> like i get 400 the first time i connect to it
1380 2011-07-03 17:08:47 <apr> then if i try again, no reply
1381 2011-07-03 17:09:09 <zapnap> apr: via telnet or via a proper client?
1382 2011-07-03 17:09:12 <apr> telnet
1383 2011-07-03 17:09:16 <apr> proper client just hangs
1384 2011-07-03 17:09:21 <zapnap> if i telnet i get as many 400s as i want :p
1385 2011-07-03 17:09:35 <apr> =[ i only get the first.
1386 2011-07-03 17:09:53 <zapnap> it should dump you from the session, no?
1387 2011-07-03 17:10:00 <zapnap> and then you re-run telnet and it hangs?
1388 2011-07-03 17:10:15 <zapnap> my client, otoh, is always getting the same
1389 2011-07-03 17:10:15 <zapnap> [7/3/11 12:25:57 PM] ERROR: Can't connect to Bitcoin: Bitcoin disconnected during response: 400 invalid args
1390 2011-07-03 17:10:35 <zapnap> i need to set up my env on my linux box too (been testing on mac) just to sanity-check
1391 2011-07-03 17:10:56 <apr> ok i think it might be to do with memcacehd
1392 2011-07-03 17:11:14 <apr> e.g. now i can get as many 400's aswell as i want
1393 2011-07-03 17:11:27 <apr> wait, no i lie.
1394 2011-07-03 17:11:32 <apr> back to hanging :(
1395 2011-07-03 17:13:16 <zapnap> bummer
1396 2011-07-03 17:13:26 <zapnap> i'll let you know once i have this up. bringing up a virtualbox to test, sigh
1397 2011-07-03 17:14:31 ThomasV has joined
1398 2011-07-03 17:15:25 <apr> mmm
1399 2011-07-03 17:15:42 <apr> zapnap: after you've connected a client
1400 2011-07-03 17:15:46 <apr> and it's failed
1401 2011-07-03 17:15:50 <apr> can you still get / for 400?
1402 2011-07-03 17:16:19 <zapnap> apr: yes. in my request log i can see multiple attempts to connect with the appropriate username, requesting '/'
1403 2011-07-03 17:16:23 <zapnap> all result in 400 invalid args
1404 2011-07-03 17:16:30 <apr> after, you have tried, to connect a miner thou?
1405 2011-07-03 17:16:33 <zapnap> yes
1406 2011-07-03 17:17:52 <apr> mm i think it might be my sql failing ~.~ at least i hgope
1407 2011-07-03 17:18:42 <zapnap> that sounds likely. make sure you have the shares and workers tables set up
1408 2011-07-03 17:18:46 Sthebig has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1409 2011-07-03 17:18:47 warpi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1410 2011-07-03 17:18:52 <zapnap> and the right entry in there for the connecting client
1411 2011-07-03 17:18:59 <apr> dont need shares until i have a shares stmt right?
1412 2011-07-03 17:19:21 <zapnap> i suspect you just need workers to connect.
1413 2011-07-03 17:20:49 <apr> it seems to log into the database fine hmm
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1423 2011-07-03 17:49:59 <phantomcircuit> ;;bc,blocks
1424 2011-07-03 17:50:00 <gribble> 134585
1425 2011-07-03 17:55:51 jav__ has joined
1426 2011-07-03 17:57:17 <Optimo> b4epoche: making a Print menu for the app? ;p
1427 2011-07-03 17:57:32 <b4epoche_> yea
1428 2011-07-03 17:58:23 <b4epoche_> got the privKey as QR data...  trying to figure out how to get that into an NSImage
1429 2011-07-03 17:58:44 <b4epoche_> seems like it should be easy but it's not working
1430 2011-07-03 18:00:31 <b4epoche_> well, that's progress:  http://snapplr.com/m5yp
1431 2011-07-03 18:01:02 <b4epoche_> :-)
1432 2011-07-03 18:01:22 <apr> zapnap: i nailed my problem ;)
1433 2011-07-03 18:01:27 <apr> or at least, found it's source.
1434 2011-07-03 18:01:34 <zapnap> apr: do tell :)
1435 2011-07-03 18:01:39 <apr> zapnap: see if you have any luck without memcached running
1436 2011-07-03 18:01:48 <zapnap> disable memcache?
1437 2011-07-03 18:01:53 <apr> yes.
1438 2011-07-03 18:02:01 <zapnap> or just remove it from the conf??
1439 2011-07-03 18:02:16 <apr> well, i just set it to a wrong address to start
1440 2011-07-03 18:02:23 <apr> (it'll still run dw)
1441 2011-07-03 18:02:38 koleg has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
1442 2011-07-03 18:02:58 <zapnap> it's definitely right here. i can telnet to that port :/
1443 2011-07-03 18:03:02 <apr> yes same.
1444 2011-07-03 18:03:04 <apr> disable it.
1445 2011-07-03 18:03:10 <zapnap> k
1446 2011-07-03 18:03:11 <apr> as in, i have memcache working etc
1447 2011-07-03 18:03:21 <apr> but, the program seems to fail to use it correctly/causes it all to hang / explode
1448 2011-07-03 18:03:56 DukeOfURL has joined
1449 2011-07-03 18:04:13 <shLONG> guys I moved a load of money around in my accounts that I dont have
1450 2011-07-03 18:04:14 <b4epoche_> Optimo:  you see my 'day trader' version?
1451 2011-07-03 18:04:27 <shLONG> so now I have a loaf of minus and + balance for bitcoins that dont exist
1452 2011-07-03 18:04:33 <shLONG> what can i do to fix this?
1453 2011-07-03 18:04:41 <shLONG> so only real bitcoins are displayed
1454 2011-07-03 18:06:33 <apr> zapnap: any luck? ;)
1455 2011-07-03 18:06:35 <kinlo> If I change rpc.cpp, add right before "if (!pwalletMain->CommitTransaction(wtx, keyChange))" a new throw JSONRPCError(), would that clean up all memory and destroy the transaction without any problems?
1456 2011-07-03 18:06:43 <apr> zapnap: and if so, what memcached are you running? see if it's the same as mine
1457 2011-07-03 18:07:40 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1458 2011-07-03 18:08:00 cryptocnt has joined
1459 2011-07-03 18:10:28 <zapnap> nah same issue
1460 2011-07-03 18:10:57 <zapnap> except now i get [2011-07-03 18:08:20.434844] memcached store(/pushpoold/cred_cache/zapnap) failed: SYSTEM ERROR in addition :)
1461 2011-07-03 18:11:30 <kinlo> anyone familiar with the bitcoin internals?
1462 2011-07-03 18:17:05 genjix has joined
1463 2011-07-03 18:17:08 <genjix> hey
1464 2011-07-03 18:17:42 <genjix> the input script for the transaction in a coinbase generation should be empty right (or anything you want)?
1465 2011-07-03 18:17:57 <genjix> so what is the CBigNum(4) all about in the genesis block?
1466 2011-07-03 18:18:07 <genjix>         txNew.vin[0].scriptSig = CScript() << 486604799 << CBigNum(4) << vector<unsigned char>((const unsigned char*)pszTimestamp, (const unsigned char*)pszTimestamp + strlen(pszTimestamp));
1467 2011-07-03 18:18:31 XX01XX has joined
1468 2011-07-03 18:19:17 <jgarzik> genewitch: the input script can be just about anything
1469 2011-07-03 18:19:29 <jgarzik> genjix: ^^
1470 2011-07-03 18:19:33 AAA_awright_ has joined
1471 2011-07-03 18:20:01 <genjix> yep thanks jgarzik... im just wondering what that CBigNum(4) is all about
1472 2011-07-03 18:20:09 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1473 2011-07-03 18:20:13 <genjix> the first number is the bits for the difficulty
1474 2011-07-03 18:20:16 <jav__> in my profiling the bitcoin code spends quite some time in EncodeBase58() .. has anyone thought of speeding that up? .. maybe just throwing memory at it and caching the results it calculates?
1475 2011-07-03 18:20:46 <genjix> jav__: i think it's about as fast as it can be... not many easy ways to improve base encoding :p
1476 2011-07-03 18:20:46 <jgarzik> genjix: pblock->vtx[0].vin[0].scriptSig = CScript() << pblock->nBits << CBigNum(nExtraNonce);
1477 2011-07-03 18:20:53 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1478 2011-07-03 18:20:58 <jgarzik> genjix: you could say it is extranonce
1479 2011-07-03 18:21:05 <genjix> aha ok
1480 2011-07-03 18:21:05 <jgarzik> genjix: but it's really just... anything
1481 2011-07-03 18:21:22 <genjix> yep... just seeing if there was some intended 'meaning'
1482 2011-07-03 18:22:20 <jav__> genjix: I guess so... so how about storing the results of an encoding in case it will have to be calculated again? in some form of cache
1483 2011-07-03 18:23:12 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1484 2011-07-03 18:23:52 <genjix> there are better ways to improve bitcoin speed
1485 2011-07-03 18:24:17 <genjix> like the blocking code
1486 2011-07-03 18:24:57 <jav__> I'm sure there are... but nothing I would feel confident about doing myself as I have limited C++ skills and this is financial software after all
1487 2011-07-03 18:25:03 gsathya_ has joined
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1490 2011-07-03 18:26:30 gsathya_ has joined
1491 2011-07-03 18:26:52 <xelister> when doing a transaction can I include a comment there?
1492 2011-07-03 18:26:56 gsathya_ has left ()
1493 2011-07-03 18:26:56 <justmoon> when I call bitcoin getwork I get data = "00000001a05f332..." - so the version is "00000001", big endian, shouldn't it be little endian?!
1494 2011-07-03 18:26:57 <Ycros> jgarzik: do you think it'd be possible to increase the share size for pooled miners? is that something that could be done pool-side?
1495 2011-07-03 18:27:07 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: oh, do you happen to know what version of ubuntu gavin was using to build bitcoin prior to gitian?
1496 2011-07-03 18:27:26 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1497 2011-07-03 18:27:35 <xelister> Ycros: so that less frequently sheres need to be reported? sure it can be done just pool for difficluty say 2 or 10 or whatever you like
1498 2011-07-03 18:27:41 <genjix> justmoon: XD
1499 2011-07-03 18:27:51 <genjix> big endian little endian mess in bitcoin
1500 2011-07-03 18:27:58 Glasswlkr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1501 2011-07-03 18:28:05 <justmoon> genjix: yeah ok, but how the hell is this working?!
1502 2011-07-03 18:28:15 <Ycros> xelister: exactly. Where do I tweak this value?
1503 2011-07-03 18:28:25 T_X has joined
1504 2011-07-03 18:28:36 <xelister> Ycros: the TARGET value in pool software, change it to other value
1505 2011-07-03 18:28:45 <xelister> like bitshift it <<4 = *16
1506 2011-07-03 18:28:52 <genjix> no idea
1507 2011-07-03 18:29:01 <Ycros> xelister: I figured it was the target
1508 2011-07-03 18:29:12 <xelister> the target for pool clients
1509 2011-07-03 18:29:15 <Ycros> xelister: just wanted to make sure
1510 2011-07-03 18:29:21 <xelister> triy it and see =)
1511 2011-07-03 18:29:37 erle- has joined
1512 2011-07-03 18:29:38 <Ycros> I wonder if any miner clients are written to expect a certain target though
1513 2011-07-03 18:29:50 <Ycros> hmm
1514 2011-07-03 18:30:03 <Ycros> xelister: do you know of any pool that's done this?
1515 2011-07-03 18:30:11 <erle-> when will bitcoin be ported to autotools or similar?
1516 2011-07-03 18:30:24 <Ycros> everyone seems to complain about scalability, but increasing share size seems like a simple solution to me
1517 2011-07-03 18:31:20 <neofutur> +1 for erle request
1518 2011-07-03 18:31:24 <neofutur> =100
1519 2011-07-03 18:31:32 <genjix> justmoon: yes it is little endian i think, since bitcoin is using memcpy internally
1520 2011-07-03 18:31:41 <Ycros> autotools is butt
1521 2011-07-03 18:31:41 <genjix> memset rather
1522 2011-07-03 18:31:58 <justmoon> yeah, but run bitcoin getwork - do you get little endian?
1523 2011-07-03 18:32:02 <erle-> Ycros, yes, but the current state is worse
1524 2011-07-03 18:32:24 <Ycros> erle-: I haven't actually looked at it, but I can't imagine much worse than autotools :P
1525 2011-07-03 18:32:32 <zapnap> apr: so i'm unclear... is that working for you now?
1526 2011-07-03 18:33:04 peck has joined
1527 2011-07-03 18:33:45 <luke-jr> kreal-: en_US is American, not English-- that's en_GB
1528 2011-07-03 18:33:53 <genjix> justmoon: yeah you're right lol
1529 2011-07-03 18:33:59 <genjix> this is weird
1530 2011-07-03 18:34:00 <justmoon> the thing is midstate is calculated based on the same data, so midstate should also be wrong
1531 2011-07-03 18:34:05 <erle-> at least you use git - thats great!
1532 2011-07-03 18:34:14 <kreal-> luke-jr: wow delay.
1533 2011-07-03 18:34:14 <justmoon> so how the f*** is this not broken :D
1534 2011-07-03 18:34:16 <kreal-> but thanks :)
1535 2011-07-03 18:34:23 <Ycros> justmoon: magic
1536 2011-07-03 18:35:02 <xelister> Ycros: why would you like that?
1537 2011-07-03 18:35:05 <erle-> luke-jr, american english is closer to the english 200 years ago when they got seperated
1538 2011-07-03 18:35:18 <Ycros> xelister: reduce load on the pool
1539 2011-07-03 18:35:38 <genjix> justmoon:     memset(pdata + len, 0, 64 * blocks - len);
1540 2011-07-03 18:35:43 <genjix> it's copying backwards
1541 2011-07-03 18:35:49 <genjix> from the end to 0
1542 2011-07-03 18:36:04 <justmoon> line?
1543 2011-07-03 18:36:15 <justmoon> nvm I can search durr
1544 2011-07-03 18:36:15 <genjix> 2595 of main.cpp
1545 2011-07-03 18:36:17 <justmoon> thx
1546 2011-07-03 18:36:29 <erle-> g++ eats hundres of megabytes building bitcoin ...
1547 2011-07-03 18:36:49 <justmoon> hmm
1548 2011-07-03 18:36:59 gsathya has joined
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1550 2011-07-03 18:37:56 <justmoon> I don't see how that fixes it
1551 2011-07-03 18:38:32 <justmoon> it would have to reverse it in 4-byte blocks to fix it, no?
1552 2011-07-03 18:39:21 <justmoon> also... memset isn't copying, it's setting the memory to zero
1553 2011-07-03 18:39:30 <genjix> ahh
1554 2011-07-03 18:39:51 <genjix> ah yes my bad
1555 2011-07-03 18:39:59 <luke-jr> erle-: citation needed
1556 2011-07-03 18:40:29 <genjix> yep it's the lines below that do the copying
1557 2011-07-03 18:40:37 <genjix>     memcpy(pdata, &tmp.block, 128);
1558 2011-07-03 18:41:07 <justmoon> that's all fine, the version still comes out the wrong way in the end
1559 2011-07-03 18:41:36 <genjix> one has to wonder why though
1560 2011-07-03 18:41:44 <justmoon> if you hash the data that getwork gives you you'll get a hash for a block with version 16777216
1561 2011-07-03 18:42:21 <justmoon> unless I'm missing something - which I am, because obviously it's working
1562 2011-07-03 18:43:01 minimoose has joined
1563 2011-07-03 18:45:05 <justmoon> ok, so it's doing the reversing here:
1564 2011-07-03 18:45:07 <justmoon>     for (int i = 0; i < sizeof(tmp)/4; i++)
1565 2011-07-03 18:45:07 <justmoon>         ((unsigned int*)&tmp)[i] = ByteReverse(((unsigned int*)&tmp)[i]);
1566 2011-07-03 18:45:27 <apr> zapnap: yes, just commeneted out memcached and it's working - no wierd hangs.
1567 2011-07-03 18:45:40 <justmoon> and that *is* in four byte blocks
1568 2011-07-03 18:46:01 <justmoon> so it must be some SHA256 preprocessing or something
1569 2011-07-03 18:46:07 <zapnap> apr: yeah i get the same error with or without it it seems
1570 2011-07-03 18:46:45 manifold_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1571 2011-07-03 18:48:10 <b4epoche_> w00t:  http://snapplr.com/frby
1572 2011-07-03 18:48:26 <b4epoche_> sure, kinda small but...
1573 2011-07-03 18:48:30 <genjix> justmoon: no because it doesnt enter that second branch if you supply 0 args
1574 2011-07-03 18:49:10 <genjix> oh wait
1575 2011-07-03 18:49:25 <genjix> ok not sure how we missed that XD
1576 2011-07-03 18:50:11 <justmoon> hey, at least the channel is logged, so it's all preserved for posterity :)
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1578 2011-07-03 18:54:28 vokoda`` is now known as vokoda
1579 2011-07-03 18:55:43 <diki> i still wonder how this -pthreads works...jgarzik uses almost no loops on his miners and pushpoold yet he still is able to make the program work as it should
1580 2011-07-03 18:55:44 <diki> how/?
1581 2011-07-03 18:59:30 <Ycros> diki: magic
1582 2011-07-03 19:00:00 puhc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1588 2011-07-03 19:15:24 <BlueMatt> ok, well it looks like there are two options here, either keep the builds not working on old linuxes with old libcs, or build bdb4.8 ourselves instead of using packages... jgarzik sipa tcatm?
1589 2011-07-03 19:18:16 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVM•AVTEM•CENSEO•CVTTENBERC•ESSE•DELENDVM)
1590 2011-07-03 19:18:52 <b4epoche_> there's hope for you:  http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2011/0627/Worried-about-jobs-college-women-go-geek
1591 2011-07-03 19:20:28 <BlueMatt> holy shit, there just might be
1592 2011-07-03 19:20:54 * b4epoche_ met his wife working at McDonalds ;-)
1593 2011-07-03 19:21:03 <BlueMatt> lol, oh that is an interesting one
1594 2011-07-03 19:21:25 <b4epoche_> not many places to work in the small town I'm from
1595 2011-07-03 19:21:29 <luke-jr> does wallet.dat contain unconfirmed txns to broadcast?
1596 2011-07-03 19:21:34 <luke-jr> or is that another file?
1597 2011-07-03 19:21:34 <BlueMatt> yes
1598 2011-07-03 19:22:15 <BlueMatt> wallet.dat
1599 2011-07-03 19:23:32 <BlueMatt> can someone who has an amazon account boot ami-7a21d213 and cat /etc/issue?
1600 2011-07-03 19:23:37 marioxcc has joined
1601 2011-07-03 19:23:39 <marioxcc> hello
1602 2011-07-03 19:23:44 <sipa> wallet.dat contains all 'your' transactions, confirmed and uncobfirmed
1603 2011-07-03 19:23:45 <marioxcc> what's usualy understood as a block?
1604 2011-07-03 19:23:51 TheZimm has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1605 2011-07-03 19:24:00 <marioxcc> the text encapsulated into the double SHA256
1606 2011-07-03 19:24:07 <BlueMatt> unconfirmed txes that arent yours dont touch disk
1607 2011-07-03 19:24:08 <marioxcc> or the above and transactions?
1608 2011-07-03 19:24:28 <sipa> a block is a block header + its transactions
1609 2011-07-03 19:24:54 <marioxcc> ok
1610 2011-07-03 19:25:22 <marioxcc> does blkXXXX.dat stores the transactions as well?
1611 2011-07-03 19:25:42 <Ycros> marioxcc: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#block
1612 2011-07-03 19:26:48 <marioxcc> Ycros: thanks but that don't enanswer my question unless I'm missing something else :)
1613 2011-07-03 19:27:21 <Ycros> it doesn't answer your most recent question
1614 2011-07-03 19:28:17 <marioxcc> Ycros: ok, you meant the previous one, sorry and thanks again
1615 2011-07-03 19:33:08 TheZimm has joined
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1617 2011-07-03 19:33:44 <marioxcc> what's the point of having a 'bits' field in a block?
1618 2011-07-03 19:35:59 <justmoon> marioxcc: bits is the compressed form of the target, see: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty
1619 2011-07-03 19:36:06 <Titeuf_87> marioxcc, that's used to calculate the difficulty of a block
1620 2011-07-03 19:36:32 <marioxcc> yes, but why does the block needs to state it?
1621 2011-07-03 19:36:36 <marioxcc> what it is used for?
1622 2011-07-03 19:36:58 <marioxcc> ¿don't the client alredy know the current difficulty?
1623 2011-07-03 19:37:45 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: oh, additionally, can we get a bitcoin-announce list which announces new releases and rcs so we can point translators that direction so they know when they need to update their translations?
1624 2011-07-03 19:39:56 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1627 2011-07-03 19:41:20 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I think that's what bitcoin-list @ SF is for
1628 2011-07-03 19:41:33 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: theymos was sending release announcements there for a while (copying satoshi's announcements there)
1629 2011-07-03 19:41:43 <BlueMatt> from what I can tell on that one, it used to also have other people's posts
1630 2011-07-03 19:41:46 <b4epoche_> okay, I got QR codes export working...  but with the LGPL qrencode
1631 2011-07-03 19:41:49 <BlueMatt> but either way, can it be used for that now then?
1632 2011-07-03 19:42:00 <b4epoche_> should I keep that in my 'Pro' client?
1633 2011-07-03 19:42:01 diki has quit ()
1634 2011-07-03 19:42:29 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: no objection from me
1635 2011-07-03 19:42:29 warpi has joined
1636 2011-07-03 19:42:39 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ask gavin and theymos their thoughts, maybe
1637 2011-07-03 19:42:41 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: well it would be you who has to do the posting ;)
1638 2011-07-03 19:42:58 <BlueMatt> ok, well Ill see when they get on next...
1639 2011-07-03 19:43:13 <BlueMatt> but out of date translations is becoming a problem
1640 2011-07-03 19:45:20 sytse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1643 2011-07-03 19:47:22 <b4epoche_> anyone?
1644 2011-07-03 19:53:36 <neofutur> for translations do you have a easy sytem for translators ?
1645 2011-07-03 19:59:36 germanMNY has joined
1646 2011-07-03 20:05:56 Katapult has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1647 2011-07-03 20:06:11 <b4epoche_> so, I suppose pubKeys should be dumped as QR too, eh?
1648 2011-07-03 20:06:46 warpi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1649 2011-07-03 20:08:18 <sipa> b4epoche_: ?
1650 2011-07-03 20:09:00 <b4epoche_> well, if you're going to backup your wallet with QR codes, shouldn't both pub and priv keys be there?
1651 2011-07-03 20:09:04 <BlueMatt> no, just secret, not even full privkey
1652 2011-07-03 20:09:25 <b4epoche_> well pub address I mean
1653 2011-07-03 20:09:28 <BlueMatt> pubkeys can be calculated from privkey
1654 2011-07-03 20:09:43 <b4epoche_> oh, okay...  I wasn't sure about that
1655 2011-07-03 20:09:52 <sipa> b4epoche_: look at my showwallet branch
1656 2011-07-03 20:09:54 mindful has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1657 2011-07-03 20:10:10 <b4epoche_> sipa/bitcoin?
1658 2011-07-03 20:10:16 <sipa> yes
1659 2011-07-03 20:10:23 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r7326288 / (lib/util.js native.cc test/util.js): Added sha256_midstate() partial hashing function and tests. - http://bit.ly/jdfLqZ
1660 2011-07-03 20:10:33 <justmoon> sipa: I did it :D - thanks again for the explanation
1661 2011-07-03 20:10:33 <BlueMatt> or crypto, that does calculation as well
1662 2011-07-03 20:10:38 <BlueMatt> but showwallet is probably better
1663 2011-07-03 20:10:49 <sipa> justmoon: yw
1664 2011-07-03 20:10:57 <BlueMatt> did what, might I ask?
1665 2011-07-03 20:10:59 germanMNY has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4)
1666 2011-07-03 20:11:14 <sipa> implement midstate for getwork
1667 2011-07-03 20:11:20 <BlueMatt> ah, nice
1668 2011-07-03 20:11:27 <BlueMatt> on the js implementation?
1669 2011-07-03 20:11:30 <justmoon> yep
1670 2011-07-03 20:11:41 <BlueMatt> wait, it has full script implementation?
1671 2011-07-03 20:11:52 <justmoon> BlueMatt, only standard transactionss
1672 2011-07-03 20:11:58 <b4epoche_> free testnet privKey:  http://snapplr.com/rvm6
1673 2011-07-03 20:11:59 <BlueMatt> then why are you enabling mining?
1674 2011-07-03 20:12:12 <justmoon> because standard transactions are enough for mining :)
1675 2011-07-03 20:12:22 <BlueMatt> meh, shouldnt be...
1676 2011-07-03 20:12:38 <justmoon> well, if you want, implement full script support, patches welcome :P
1677 2011-07-03 20:12:49 <BlueMatt> ha, Id rather not...
1678 2011-07-03 20:12:54 <justmoon> ;)
1679 2011-07-03 20:13:37 <b4epoche_> sipa:  I (think I) used your show wallet code to grab the privKeys and convert them to base58 strings which I converted to QR codes and displayed
1680 2011-07-03 20:13:55 <sipa> ok
1681 2011-07-03 20:14:50 <b4epoche_> seem to work...  I was able to scan it from my laptop screen to my phone
1682 2011-07-03 20:17:05 darbsllim has joined
1683 2011-07-03 20:17:21 <b4epoche_> but I still haven't found a MIT QR generator lib
1684 2011-07-03 20:17:47 <b4epoche_> so, I'll keep this stuff in the 'Pro' version...
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1722 2011-07-03 21:28:25 <RBecker> ;;bc,mtgox
1723 2011-07-03 21:28:26 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":15.689,"low":15.311,"avg":15.476469223,"vol":19172,"last":15.47801,"buy":15.47811,"sell":15.479}}
1724 2011-07-03 21:35:49 CrazyEddy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1725 2011-07-03 21:41:32 validity has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1726 2011-07-03 21:41:58 kiba has joined
1727 2011-07-03 21:42:28 <makomk> Ycros: the only miners that assume difficulty=1 that I know of are the FPGA ones...
1728 2011-07-03 21:45:34 validity has joined
1729 2011-07-03 21:49:54 dbasch has joined
1730 2011-07-03 21:50:14 kgo has joined
1731 2011-07-03 21:52:06 <JFK911> haha tradehill ticker
1732 2011-07-03 21:52:08 <JFK911> last: 15.11110000017328019407381736
1733 2011-07-03 21:52:23 <dsockwell> tradehill ticker did 9/11
1734 2011-07-03 21:52:36 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1735 2011-07-03 21:52:41 <kgo> Is there a way for me to query to see if I will be charged a tx fee?  I'm using the JSON-RPC interface with ruby.
1736 2011-07-03 21:54:59 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
1737 2011-07-03 21:55:38 rethaw has joined
1738 2011-07-03 21:56:01 <marioxcc-AFK> kgo: YOU choose the fee
1739 2011-07-03 21:56:04 marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc
1740 2011-07-03 21:56:05 <marioxcc> back
1741 2011-07-03 21:56:26 <kgo> Well I'm messing around on testnet.
1742 2011-07-03 21:56:37 <kgo> Sent 0.025 BTC and got an unexpected fee.
1743 2011-07-03 21:56:48 <kgo> I don't mind paying it if I know it's going to get charged first.
1744 2011-07-03 21:56:55 <kgo> So I can keep my books balanced.
1745 2011-07-03 21:57:35 <kgo> In this case I would only send 0.0245 or whatever, so the sum was 0.025
1746 2011-07-03 21:58:03 <marioxcc> kgo: I mean, the client decides how much fee to pay and the miner decides whether to take it or not
1747 2011-07-03 21:58:23 <kgo> Yeah, that I understand.
1748 2011-07-03 21:58:42 <kgo> But for example, in the normal client, it will alert me first and ask if I want to pay a fee.
1749 2011-07-03 21:58:45 <marioxcc> now, I don't know if there is a way to query the client for how much fee it will default to
1750 2011-07-03 21:58:51 <marioxcc> kgo: yes, got it
1751 2011-07-03 21:58:55 <kgo> I don't see a way to do this in JSON-RPC>
1752 2011-07-03 21:58:57 <marioxcc> you will have to search in the code
1753 2011-07-03 21:59:05 norulezapply has joined
1754 2011-07-03 21:59:08 <kgo> thanks
1755 2011-07-03 21:59:22 <marioxcc> kgo: you're welcome
1756 2011-07-03 21:59:57 <norulezapply> hey guys. can anyone help me solve this error when starting pushpoold? - [2011-07-03 21:42:6.364029] tcp socket: Address family not supported by protocol
1757 2011-07-03 22:00:33 <marioxcc> norulezapply: are you trying to connect to a IPv6?
1758 2011-07-03 22:00:45 <norulezapply> no. i'm doing it locally
1759 2011-07-03 22:00:56 WildSoil has quit ()
1760 2011-07-03 22:01:13 <kgo> I was also surprised it charged a fee at all.  I sent a single transaction of 101 bitcoins.  Then sent my "rake" of 0.025 off.  I thought at that point the bitcoins would be compacted, and I was above 0.01.  But I guess that's another story.
1761 2011-07-03 22:01:42 <kiba> hey bitcoiners
1762 2011-07-03 22:01:56 peterpansen has joined
1763 2011-07-03 22:02:15 <marioxcc> kgo: the fee is currently decided on the size of the transaction
1764 2011-07-03 22:02:17 <norulezapply> marioxcc: trying to connect on 127.0.0.1
1765 2011-07-03 22:02:29 <marioxcc> norulezapply: lol, ok
1766 2011-07-03 22:03:26 <norulezapply> >_>
1767 2011-07-03 22:03:47 <marioxcc> I can't help you, sorry
1768 2011-07-03 22:04:13 <kiba> you guys heard of my effort to ransom articles?
1769 2011-07-03 22:04:15 <norulezapply> no problem. thanks anyway
1770 2011-07-03 22:05:10 <marioxcc> kiba: no
1771 2011-07-03 22:05:45 <kiba> marioxcc: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=23934.msg300078#msg300078
1772 2011-07-03 22:11:06 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1773 2011-07-03 22:13:56 <RBecker> yo, slush
1774 2011-07-03 22:14:53 peterpansen_ has joined
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1776 2011-07-03 22:16:33 ultrixx has joined
1777 2011-07-03 22:16:39 dbasch has joined
1778 2011-07-03 22:17:04 <slush> RBecker: yep?
1779 2011-07-03 22:17:28 <RBecker> slush: any plans to implement long polling on your pool?
1780 2011-07-03 22:17:41 <slush> RBecker: yes
1781 2011-07-03 22:17:48 <RBecker> slush: when
1782 2011-07-03 22:17:53 <slush> soon
1783 2011-07-03 22:17:55 <RBecker> ok
1784 2011-07-03 22:18:19 * AlonzoTG gave up trying to get ada working and is now using C++.
1785 2011-07-03 22:18:26 dbasch has quit (Client Quit)
1786 2011-07-03 22:18:28 peterpansen has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1787 2011-07-03 22:18:33 mtrlt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1788 2011-07-03 22:18:40 <AlonzoTG> I'm studying socket programming now.
1789 2011-07-03 22:19:51 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1790 2011-07-03 22:19:59 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
1791 2011-07-03 22:20:34 talpan has joined
1792 2011-07-03 22:20:41 <talpan> hello
1793 2011-07-03 22:20:52 <kgo> hello
1794 2011-07-03 22:21:19 <sipa> hello
1795 2011-07-03 22:21:22 <talpan> can anyone give a solution from pushpool where the upstream_result = Y (an block was found), please
1796 2011-07-03 22:21:27 <talpan> *give me
1797 2011-07-03 22:21:28 genjix has joined
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1802 2011-07-03 22:25:41 rethaw has quit (Quit: rethaw)
1803 2011-07-03 22:25:56 <talpan> anyone?
1804 2011-07-03 22:26:52 jav__ has joined
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1808 2011-07-03 22:31:14 <talpan> i give 0.25BTC for a solution from pushpool where the upstream_result is 'Y'
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1811 2011-07-03 22:36:40 <Zarutian> kiba: rasom articles? I thought the usual term was payment-embargoed data. (Or just embargoed data)
1812 2011-07-03 22:38:06 dbasch has joined
1813 2011-07-03 22:40:36 <luke-jr> is there a way to force bitcoind to retransmit all its pending transactions?
1814 2011-07-03 22:40:55 <luke-jr> talpan: on testnet/
1815 2011-07-03 22:40:57 <luke-jr> ?
1816 2011-07-03 22:42:02 <MrSam> hmm
1817 2011-07-03 22:46:42 phatsphere has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1818 2011-07-03 22:48:23 eternal1 has joined
1819 2011-07-03 22:48:27 <xelister> talpan: ?
1820 2011-07-03 22:50:51 josephholsten has joined
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1822 2011-07-03 22:55:48 llama has joined
1823 2011-07-03 22:56:26 <shLONG> hey guys
1824 2011-07-03 22:56:30 <shLONG> so this is what ive been working on
1825 2011-07-03 22:56:30 <shLONG> http://bitgambler.sytes.net/
1826 2011-07-03 22:56:33 <shLONG> its finished now :D
1827 2011-07-03 22:56:49 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1828 2011-07-03 23:01:46 darin has joined
1829 2011-07-03 23:04:00 <kiba> Zarutian: hmm? Never heard of it.
1830 2011-07-03 23:04:09 <kiba> I heard it as ransom, ransom, and ransom
1831 2011-07-03 23:05:35 <Zarutian> kiba: I also heard that something is ransom-packaged which is the same but avoids the connection to kidnapping and ransomware.
1832 2011-07-03 23:09:54 <Raccoon> hmm ok
1833 2011-07-03 23:10:08 <Raccoon> remind me
1834 2011-07-03 23:10:18 <Zarutian> kibe: also (this was on a rather strange Gaia Online lookalike forum) vendobox
1835 2011-07-03 23:10:19 AStove has quit ()
1836 2011-07-03 23:10:31 <Raccoon> what key space are bitcoin addresses? (hashing algo, bitsize)?
1837 2011-07-03 23:11:23 WildSoil has joined
1838 2011-07-03 23:12:35 <upb> its bitsize is 1 bit per bit
1839 2011-07-03 23:13:01 <sipa> Raccoon: 160 bits
1840 2011-07-03 23:13:21 <Raccoon> and block hashes are 256 (SHA-256) right?
1841 2011-07-03 23:13:34 <sipa> an address is a base58 encoding of a 8-bit version number, a 160 bit hash of a public key, and 32 bits of checksum
1842 2011-07-03 23:13:38 <talpan> sorry: luke-jr and xelister i was afk
1843 2011-07-03 23:13:49 <talpan> no, not on testnet please
1844 2011-07-03 23:13:58 <sipa> block hashes are double sha-256, 256 bit indeed
1845 2011-07-03 23:14:23 <Raccoon> so a bitcoin address is 200 bits in entirety
1846 2011-07-03 23:14:24 DukeOfURL has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1847 2011-07-03 23:14:42 <sipa> after base58 decoding, yes
1848 2011-07-03 23:14:53 <sipa> but the address space is only 2^160 large
1849 2011-07-03 23:15:29 <Raccoon> the '8-bit version number' is always static or has room for play?
1850 2011-07-03 23:15:38 <Raccoon> just '1' ?
1851 2011-07-03 23:15:44 <sipa> it is always 0 now
1852 2011-07-03 23:15:50 <Raccoon> 0 now?
1853 2011-07-03 23:15:52 <sipa> yes
1854 2011-07-03 23:15:56 <Raccoon> was it 1?
1855 2011-07-03 23:15:59 <sipa> no
1856 2011-07-03 23:16:01 <Raccoon> ok
1857 2011-07-03 23:16:03 <gim> luke-jr: I think pending transactions are broadcasted every 30 min
1858 2011-07-03 23:16:05 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
1859 2011-07-03 23:16:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134621 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 450 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 14 hours, 22 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1583392.16258251
1860 2011-07-03 23:16:14 <sipa> it causes a 1 in front of the base58 encoding
1861 2011-07-03 23:16:15 <Raccoon> why do bitcoin addresses always start with '1'
1862 2011-07-03 23:16:45 <sipa> because '1' is the base58 of the base58-number 0
1863 2011-07-03 23:16:57 <Raccoon> oic.  base58 with an index of 1
1864 2011-07-03 23:17:15 <gim> luke-jr: wallet.cpp:516
1865 2011-07-03 23:17:24 <Raccoon> what is the entire cipher string of base58?
1866 2011-07-03 23:17:32 <sipa> >
1867 2011-07-03 23:17:36 <sipa> ?
1868 2011-07-03 23:17:44 <Raccoon> 1234567890abcdefg...ABCDEFG...?
1869 2011-07-03 23:17:53 <sipa> look at base58.h in the source code
1870 2011-07-03 23:18:07 graingert has joined
1871 2011-07-03 23:18:14 <Raccoon> hmm.
1872 2011-07-03 23:18:25 <Raccoon> 10+26+26 is 62
1873 2011-07-03 23:18:31 <Raccoon> there must be some characters omitted
1874 2011-07-03 23:18:39 <Raccoon> (4 anyway)
1875 2011-07-03 23:18:49 <sipa> please read why base58 is used instead of base64
1876 2011-07-03 23:19:01 <Raccoon> i can figure out why base64 isn't used.
1877 2011-07-03 23:19:11 <sipa> (also explained in the source, btw)
1878 2011-07-03 23:19:18 <Raccoon> alright, thanks.
1879 2011-07-03 23:19:20 <gim> smthign like "0Ilo" are omited
1880 2011-07-03 23:20:54 <Raccoon> and all this time i thought the '1' address was a clever prefix
1881 2011-07-03 23:20:54 <graingert> neat
1882 2011-07-03 23:21:10 <Raccoon> obvious versioning at a glance
1883 2011-07-03 23:21:25 <Raccoon> in the event we modify the address space in the future
1884 2011-07-03 23:22:41 <Raccoon> i suppose it would be possible to change the 8bit 'version' to intentionally yield a '2' after rebasing
1885 2011-07-03 23:23:08 <sipa> that would be possible
1886 2011-07-03 23:23:16 <sipa> but i'm not sure whether we will
1887 2011-07-03 23:23:19 <Raccoon> not that we'll ever need 256 versions.
1888 2011-07-03 23:23:31 <sipa> there are already 4 version bytes defined
1889 2011-07-03 23:23:41 <Raccoon> orly
1890 2011-07-03 23:23:44 <sipa> 0 and 111 for realnet and testnet addresses
1891 2011-07-03 23:23:46 <Raccoon> but only one in implimentation?
1892 2011-07-03 23:23:57 <sipa> 128 and 239 for realnet and testnet private keys
1893 2011-07-03 23:23:58 <Raccoon> i see
1894 2011-07-03 23:24:17 <Raccoon> why 111
1895 2011-07-03 23:24:24 <sipa> no idea :)
1896 2011-07-03 23:24:38 <gim> change addresses have a special version number also?
1897 2011-07-03 23:24:47 <sipa> no
1898 2011-07-03 23:24:50 <xelister> talpan: what do you want?
1899 2011-07-03 23:24:53 <gim> remebrering m and n as prefixes on testnet
1900 2011-07-03 23:25:06 <sipa> they are intentionally indistinguishable from 'true' addresses
1901 2011-07-03 23:25:34 <talpan> a solution from pushpool where the upstream result is 'Y' ( not from testnet)
1902 2011-07-03 23:25:37 <Raccoon> but, are all clients/miners smart enough to pay attention to the version number :p
1903 2011-07-03 23:26:02 <xelister> talpan: I dont understand... you want to see a block?
1904 2011-07-03 23:26:10 <Raccoon> would be weird if a few 111 addresses got stuck in the block record like slivers
1905 2011-07-03 23:26:27 <sipa> version numbers don't exist in the protocol
1906 2011-07-03 23:26:39 <sipa> they are only used for communicating with humans
1907 2011-07-03 23:26:53 <Raccoon> sipa: but certainly there is a sanity check
1908 2011-07-03 23:27:02 <sipa> yes, when communicating with humans
1909 2011-07-03 23:27:07 <Raccoon> no u
1910 2011-07-03 23:27:14 <lfm> sipa there are version words in the protocol too
1911 2011-07-03 23:27:21 <talpan> not really, i need a share from pushpool where upstream result is 'Y' (a block was found)
1912 2011-07-03 23:27:22 <Raccoon> i'm talking about the 0 vs 111 and 128 vs 239
1913 2011-07-03 23:27:27 <sipa> lfm: sure, but differennt ones
1914 2011-07-03 23:27:29 <Raccoon> you cannot tell me there isn't a sanity check
1915 2011-07-03 23:27:37 <sipa> Raccoon: those do not exist in the p2p protcol
1916 2011-07-03 23:27:38 <lfm> sipa ya different ones
1917 2011-07-03 23:27:47 <Raccoon> to prevent version 111 keys from receiving coins on realnet
1918 2011-07-03 23:27:55 <Raccoon> they exist if someone generates and sends one
1919 2011-07-03 23:27:57 <sipa> the keys are the same
1920 2011-07-03 23:28:11 <sipa> if i generate a testnet key
1921 2011-07-03 23:28:13 <Raccoon> or are you saying that byte is stripped
1922 2011-07-03 23:28:17 <sipa> yes
1923 2011-07-03 23:28:21 <Raccoon> then say so :p
1924 2011-07-03 23:28:27 Tamo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1925 2011-07-03 23:28:49 <sipa> i just told they don't exist in the p2p protocol - they're not really stripped, they just don't exist
1926 2011-07-03 23:28:58 <Raccoon> so you're saying that versioning will not ever be useful to enhance the protocol
1927 2011-07-03 23:29:00 <lfm> ok ya the version byte in the address is not used in the protocol
1928 2011-07-03 23:29:00 <sipa> they are part of the encoding to text form
1929 2011-07-03 23:29:22 <Raccoon> ie, "upgrading" to RIPE-1024 hashes
1930 2011-07-03 23:29:26 llama has quit (Quit: llama)
1931 2011-07-03 23:29:32 <sipa> of course it can be
1932 2011-07-03 23:29:38 <BlueMatt> sipa: in the master key on disk, it stores client version, should I instead store version 0, or no version?
1933 2011-07-03 23:29:40 <sipa> other types of hashes can be added
1934 2011-07-03 23:29:43 <Raccoon> not if clients can't distinguish
1935 2011-07-03 23:29:54 <sipa> Raccoon: read about scripts
1936 2011-07-03 23:30:15 <sipa> Raccoon: clients can do a lot of things, and it's sure possible to add other types of hashes
1937 2011-07-03 23:30:25 <Raccoon> into the wild?
1938 2011-07-03 23:30:29 <Raccoon> that enter blockdom?
1939 2011-07-03 23:30:30 <sipa> but it's not encoding as a version number in the p2p protocol
1940 2011-07-03 23:30:39 <sipa> just using script opcodes
1941 2011-07-03 23:30:39 <lfm> bluemattit should be a key version, only change if the key format changes Id think
1942 2011-07-03 23:30:45 <sipa> BlueMatt: hmm?
1943 2011-07-03 23:30:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: let me have a look at the source
1944 2011-07-03 23:31:11 <BlueMatt>         if (!(nType & SER_GETHASH))
1945 2011-07-03 23:31:11 <BlueMatt>             READWRITE(nVersion);
1946 2011-07-03 23:31:20 <BlueMatt> results in 32400 on disk
1947 2011-07-03 23:31:39 <BlueMatt> (Im writing the companion stuff for bitcointools atm)
1948 2011-07-03 23:32:02 <Raccoon> ok, another question
1949 2011-07-03 23:32:15 <Raccoon> at present difficulty (approx) how many leading bits of a block hash are zero?
1950 2011-07-03 23:32:24 <sipa> ;;bc,hextarget
1951 2011-07-03 23:32:25 <gribble> 0000000000000C2A120000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
1952 2011-07-03 23:32:31 <Raccoon> huh.
1953 2011-07-03 23:32:35 <Raccoon> why leading and trailing?
1954 2011-07-03 23:32:42 <Raccoon> oh, nvm. :p
1955 2011-07-03 23:32:58 <lfm> Raccoon: the trailing are insignificant
1956 2011-07-03 23:33:00 <Raccoon> so
1957 2011-07-03 23:33:00 <sipa> 52 bits are zero no
1958 2011-07-03 23:33:03 <sipa> now
1959 2011-07-03 23:33:30 <sipa> BlueMatt: not sure if it's useful to write client version number there
1960 2011-07-03 23:33:39 <Raccoon> 204 bits of useful hash
1961 2011-07-03 23:33:45 <Raccoon> or 203ish
1962 2011-07-03 23:34:03 <BlueMatt> sipa: well originally it was a copy/paste mistake, but now that I look at it, Im not entirely opposed to it being there, I mean it can only help
1963 2011-07-03 23:34:10 <lfm> Raccoon: its all usefull
1964 2011-07-03 23:34:30 <Raccoon> lfm: so to speak. i'm trying to do something where it applies though
1965 2011-07-03 23:34:50 llama has joined
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1967 2011-07-03 23:34:50 llama has joined
1968 2011-07-03 23:34:55 <lfm> bluematt you cant rely on it being all random bit you know
1969 2011-07-03 23:35:14 <BlueMatt> lfm: what being all random?
1970 2011-07-03 23:35:26 <lfm> sorry I ment raccon
1971 2011-07-03 23:35:27 llama has quit (Client Quit)
1972 2011-07-03 23:35:35 <BlueMatt> ah
1973 2011-07-03 23:35:45 <Raccoon> lfm: explain
1974 2011-07-03 23:36:02 <Raccoon> i can't use a block hash as a 'random' number?
1975 2011-07-03 23:36:28 <Raccoon> at least pseudo-random within the realm of comparitively tiny numbers
1976 2011-07-03 23:36:37 <lfm> Raccoon: it was random then it was selected for < traget, so it is less random, particularly the histest non-zero bits
1977 2011-07-03 23:36:50 <gim> well first leading non-zero number are a bit biased
1978 2011-07-03 23:37:00 <Raccoon> well yes
1979 2011-07-03 23:37:18 <Raccoon> but if i only pay attention to the last 160 bits :)
1980 2011-07-03 23:37:26 <lfm> gin in theory it effects all the bits even if it is hard to tell
1981 2011-07-03 23:37:31 <Raccoon> i'm pretty good for a while until difficulty reaches profound levels
1982 2011-07-03 23:37:45 <gim> no trailling zeros are useful for unbiased hashs ;)
1983 2011-07-03 23:37:59 <gim> no->so
1984 2011-07-03 23:38:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: i don't like using client version numbers for such things
1985 2011-07-03 23:38:37 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok, thats what I was thinking though, Ill write a 0 then?
1986 2011-07-03 23:38:47 <sipa> BlueMatt: use a masterkey version number if needed, which you only change when the masterkey format changes
1987 2011-07-03 23:38:50 <sipa> yes
1988 2011-07-03 23:39:05 <BlueMatt> yea, I do like the idea of another version number
1989 2011-07-03 23:39:23 <lfm> bluematt is the file meant to be read by other programs which use different verion numbers? then it should be a file format verion number independant of any program
1990 2011-07-03 23:39:26 <BlueMatt> its already there, and others can use it for that second scrypt number
1991 2011-07-03 23:39:37 <lfm> bluematt read and/or written
1992 2011-07-03 23:39:45 <BlueMatt> lfm: then it becomes a "Im compatible with xxx"...
1993 2011-07-03 23:40:27 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1994 2011-07-03 23:42:24 <lfm> bluematt consider if in the future the std bitcoin client is no longer used, some tother program maintains the file, how would it make a new version number? it would be kinda meaningless (yes you COULD do it but it wouldnt be nice)
1995 2011-07-03 23:42:32 <BlueMatt> ok, wile I was at it I added nVersion and nSecondDerivationParameter and removed VERSION
1996 2011-07-03 23:42:59 <BlueMatt> lfm: no, I wasnt arguing that it was better to not, I was just saying it really works fine if you do
1997 2011-07-03 23:43:00 <sipa> what about nFirstDerivationParameter?
1998 2011-07-03 23:43:10 <BlueMatt> that remains nDeriveIterations
1999 2011-07-03 23:43:19 <sipa> ahm ok
2000 2011-07-03 23:43:24 <lfm> bluematt ya, ok
2001 2011-07-03 23:43:25 <BlueMatt> unless I should refactor that?
2002 2011-07-03 23:43:36 <sipa> what about just adding vchDerivationParameters
2003 2011-07-03 23:43:47 <BlueMatt> oh that gets even more complicated...
2004 2011-07-03 23:43:52 <sipa> how so?
2005 2011-07-03 23:44:03 <BlueMatt> so then what, a vector of unsigned chars?
2006 2011-07-03 23:44:08 <sipa> yes
2007 2011-07-03 23:44:17 <BlueMatt> and for us just pull out an int then...
2008 2011-07-03 23:44:27 <BlueMatt> hm...that becomes even harder to parse in bitcointools...
2009 2011-07-03 23:44:33 <sipa> no, you use nIterations for that
2010 2011-07-03 23:44:40 <sipa> parameters is for other things
2011 2011-07-03 23:44:50 <BlueMatt> oh a second thing...
2012 2011-07-03 23:44:50 <sipa> like the scrypt arguments
2013 2011-07-03 23:45:03 <BlueMatt> I was thinking replace both nDeriveIterations and other stuff with one vector
2014 2011-07-03 23:45:05 <sipa> or you could make it a map<string,int>
2015 2011-07-03 23:45:15 <BlueMatt> I thought scrypt takes just two args?
2016 2011-07-03 23:45:22 <sipa> n, p and r
2017 2011-07-03 23:45:28 <sipa> n=iterations
2018 2011-07-03 23:45:33 <sipa> p=typically 1
2019 2011-07-03 23:45:48 <BlueMatt> oh thats why I was confused, everyone uses 1 for one of them ;)
2020 2011-07-03 23:45:50 <kiba> yo
2021 2011-07-03 23:45:51 <sipa> r is 8 in the examples in the paper
2022 2011-07-03 23:46:20 <BlueMatt> I was under the impression you could specify how much mem you want and how long (ie rounds)
2023 2011-07-03 23:46:31 <BlueMatt> remember I never did much on scrypt beyond just some surface googleing
2024 2011-07-03 23:46:38 <sipa> sure
2025 2011-07-03 23:47:08 <sipa> not sure how the memory and time constraints are used to determine p and r
2026 2011-07-03 23:47:37 <BlueMatt> hmmm...well if we are going crazy with extensibility, should we also do a similar thing for keys, ie what encryption method was used on keys?
2027 2011-07-03 23:47:51 <sipa> i was just about to ask that :D
2028 2011-07-03 23:48:06 <BlueMatt> oh god
2029 2011-07-03 23:48:09 DukeOfURL has joined
2030 2011-07-03 23:48:11 <sipa> there may be need for encryption parameters
2031 2011-07-03 23:48:28 <sipa> which is now 0=AES256-CBC
2032 2011-07-03 23:48:33 <BlueMatt> god, this is kind of why I didnt want to do this originally...
2033 2011-07-03 23:48:41 <sipa> hehe
2034 2011-07-03 23:48:41 <BlueMatt> it gets ugly quick
2035 2011-07-03 23:48:59 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2036 2011-07-03 23:49:25 <kiba> yo?
2037 2011-07-03 23:49:26 <kiba> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=23934.0
2038 2011-07-03 23:49:27 <sipa> now
2039 2011-07-03 23:49:31 <kiba> donate some bitcent!
2040 2011-07-03 23:49:37 <kiba> if you want discounts, email me!
2041 2011-07-03 23:49:44 <sipa> those encryption parameters will always be wallet-wise
2042 2011-07-03 23:49:54 <sipa> and be the same for all masterkeys
2043 2011-07-03 23:49:57 <kiba> I'll give you a unique address for you and once that is confirmed, you get discounts from bitbrew
2044 2011-07-03 23:51:00 tandy80 has joined
2045 2011-07-03 23:51:59 <BlueMatt> alright, to keep this reasonable, unsigned int for keys, to indicate AES256-CBC, and in master key, an unsigned int and a uint256 that can be split for several parameters
2046 2011-07-03 23:53:01 <BlueMatt> ?
2047 2011-07-03 23:53:42 <BlueMatt> and also, nDerivationMethod fills the need for version, so Ill skip version
2048 2011-07-03 23:54:42 <lfm> kiba that seems kinda expensive 0.7 BTC
2049 2011-07-03 23:55:08 <sipa> BlueMatt: i would ignore encryption type fow now
2050 2011-07-03 23:55:15 alanp has joined
2051 2011-07-03 23:55:16 <kiba> lfm: 2 articles and 1 comics are ransomed for .70 BTC
2052 2011-07-03 23:55:38 <kiba> plus, you can donate as little as you like or as much as you like
2053 2011-07-03 23:55:47 <lfm> thats like $10 right?
2054 2011-07-03 23:55:48 <sipa> if that ever changes, you can easily add a 'encparam' field to the wallet format
2055 2011-07-03 23:55:52 <kiba> lfm: yes.
2056 2011-07-03 23:56:24 <lfm> kiba oh is this ransom for each person or you are trying to collect that total?
2057 2011-07-03 23:56:30 <BlueMatt> sipa: ok well that makes it more convenient...now its the same size as it always was
2058 2011-07-03 23:56:36 <kiba> lfm: collect total
2059 2011-07-03 23:57:02 <sipa> BlueMatt: if it were up to me, i'd say nDerivationMethod, nDerivatioIterations, vchDerivationParameters
2060 2011-07-03 23:57:04 <lfm> kiba oh, ok, I missed that somehow
2061 2011-07-03 23:57:15 <lfm> kiba thats not so bad then
2062 2011-07-03 23:57:28 <sipa> or mapDerivationParameters
2063 2011-07-03 23:57:38 <BlueMatt> sipa: its as much up to you as me
2064 2011-07-03 23:57:43 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2065 2011-07-03 23:57:49 <kiba> lfm: you're going to donate
2066 2011-07-03 23:57:54 <BlueMatt> sipa: probably more...
2067 2011-07-03 23:58:13 <sipa> you're rhe one doing it
2068 2011-07-03 23:58:18 <lfm> kiba thinking about it
2069 2011-07-03 23:58:34 <BlueMatt> in any case, if no encryption method for keys, why so many parameters for derivation of key?
2070 2011-07-03 23:59:02 viggi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2071 2011-07-03 23:59:25 <sipa> how are those related?
2072 2011-07-03 23:59:39 <b4epoche_> anyone want to steal my testnet wallet?  http://snapplr.com/s6ed
2073 2011-07-03 23:59:54 <BlueMatt> it just seems to me that you are arguing for infinite extensibility of one thing, while none for another?