1 2011-07-04 00:00:19 <sipa> not at all
   2 2011-07-04 00:01:10 <sipa> i am saying that parameters for encryption should go in aglobak field,not a masterket specific one
   3 2011-07-04 00:01:20 <sipa> a global field
   4 2011-07-04 00:01:27 <sipa> masterkey
   5 2011-07-04 00:01:31 <BlueMatt> why so?
   6 2011-07-04 00:01:39 kermit has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
   7 2011-07-04 00:01:50 <sipa> because they are global for the whole wallet?
   8 2011-07-04 00:02:12 kermit has joined
   9 2011-07-04 00:02:16 <BlueMatt> well I mean the point of doing this in keys is so you can crypt keys with different methods, but why not extend to regular keys instead of just mkeys?
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  13 2011-07-04 00:02:48 <sipa> oh, you mean the parameters for encryption of the masterkey itself, not the wallet ekeys?
  14 2011-07-04 00:02:58 <BlueMatt> I mean both
  15 2011-07-04 00:02:59 <sipa> hmm
  16 2011-07-04 00:02:59 kermit has joined
  17 2011-07-04 00:03:31 <BlueMatt> I feel like if you are going to go all the way on one, do it on both
  18 2011-07-04 00:03:42 <sipa> agree
  19 2011-07-04 00:03:43 <BlueMatt> now all the way on keys, is just an int imo
  20 2011-07-04 00:03:58 viggi has joined
  21 2011-07-04 00:04:12 <sipa> but all ekeys need the same encryption
  22 2011-07-04 00:04:15 <shLONG> guys
  23 2011-07-04 00:04:21 <BlueMatt> why?
  24 2011-07-04 00:04:28 <shLONG> how long does it take for bitcoins to be sent to anohter account ive been waititng like 40 mins
  25 2011-07-04 00:04:30 <BlueMatt> they just need to be able to use the same size key
  26 2011-07-04 00:04:45 <sipa> because there is only one masterkey?
  27 2011-07-04 00:05:06 <BlueMatt> hence why they need to be able to use the same size key(s)
  28 2011-07-04 00:05:10 <BlueMatt> in this case 2x32
  29 2011-07-04 00:05:19 <BlueMatt> that doesnt mean it has to be encryption method x or y
  30 2011-07-04 00:05:41 <sipa> meh, that it is exaggerated extensibility
  31 2011-07-04 00:05:43 skeledrew1 has joined
  32 2011-07-04 00:05:59 <BlueMatt> as is a huge map/vector in CMasterKey
  33 2011-07-04 00:06:11 <BlueMatt> what key derivation method has more than maybe 4 parameters max?
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  37 2011-07-04 00:06:40 <sipa> if one encryption is not safe enough, reencrypt the whole wallet with a better type
  38 2011-07-04 00:06:50 <sipa> and that should be possible
  39 2011-07-04 00:07:03 <BlueMatt> that would easily be possible
  40 2011-07-04 00:07:04 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  41 2011-07-04 00:07:26 <sipa> but not changing encryption type per ekey
  42 2011-07-04 00:07:31 kon has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  43 2011-07-04 00:07:49 <kiba> sipa: think about donating it?
  44 2011-07-04 00:08:00 <kiba> donating some bitcent to http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=23934.msg300078#msg300078
  45 2011-07-04 00:08:35 <sipa> kiba: ill do that tomorrow
  46 2011-07-04 00:09:16 <mrenouf> Is there any language neutral documentation of the bitcoin protocol? I do not grok C++ but wish to create a new implementation.
  47 2011-07-04 00:09:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: i see the encryption type for ekeys as defined by the masterkey
  48 2011-07-04 00:09:33 <mrenouf> Or perhaps someone could just help me clarify a few things?
  49 2011-07-04 00:09:45 <sipa> BlueMatt: only it is a part that canot be encrypted itself
  50 2011-07-04 00:09:46 <BlueMatt> well if you have multiple master keys, they all have to have the same thing, so it would have to be global in a setting instead of masterkeys
  51 2011-07-04 00:10:03 <sipa> my point exactly
  52 2011-07-04 00:10:13 <sipa> there is only one masterkey
  53 2011-07-04 00:10:29 <sipa> it is only possibly stored more than once
  54 2011-07-04 00:10:46 <BlueMatt> but my point is there is nothing wrong with different types on each ckey. actually my point isnt that there is nothing wrong with that, but that I see the extensibility there as the same as adding a vector or map to masterkey
  55 2011-07-04 00:11:42 <sipa> but being able to change the encryption of the whole file is useful
  56 2011-07-04 00:11:59 <sipa> changing that of a single ckey isnt
  57 2011-07-04 00:12:06 <BlueMatt> oh absolutely, but whats wrong with a uint256 instead of that much stuff
  58 2011-07-04 00:12:35 <sipa> that's combining the disadvantages of both
  59 2011-07-04 00:12:59 <sipa> a non-transparent encoding, and inefficient
  60 2011-07-04 00:13:55 bravest has joined
  61 2011-07-04 00:14:12 <BlueMatt> I just see a map or vector as a pain to read out on bitcointools or other programs...
  62 2011-07-04 00:14:27 suriv has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
  63 2011-07-04 00:14:45 <sipa> it's just encoded as a list of pairs
  64 2011-07-04 00:16:11 <BlueMatt> still much more of a pain than 4 ints
  65 2011-07-04 00:16:18 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  66 2011-07-04 00:17:16 liltoe has joined
  67 2011-07-04 00:17:23 <sipa> then use 4 ints :)
  68 2011-07-04 00:17:36 <BlueMatt> ...
  69 2011-07-04 00:19:06 <sipa> i just told you what is imho the cleanest way of supporting what i consider possibly useful
  70 2011-07-04 00:19:23 <sipa> but we're talking about details
  71 2011-07-04 00:19:30 denisx has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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  73 2011-07-04 00:20:12 <sipa> please, go ahead with 4 ints, it's vsery likely more than enough
  74 2011-07-04 00:20:22 suriv has joined
  75 2011-07-04 00:20:55 <BlueMatt> ok, Ill do that then
  76 2011-07-04 00:21:15 B0g4r7_ has joined
  77 2011-07-04 00:21:30 <sipa> nDerivationMethod nIterations nParam1 nParam2 ?
  78 2011-07-04 00:21:51 <BlueMatt> nSecondDerivationParameter, nThirdDerivationParameter, nFourthDerivationParameter
  79 2011-07-04 00:21:57 <BlueMatt> and nDeriveIterations
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  82 2011-07-04 00:22:15 <sipa> ok :)
  83 2011-07-04 00:22:19 <BlueMatt> and fifth
  84 2011-07-04 00:22:29 <sipa> ...
  85 2011-07-04 00:22:44 <BlueMatt> that totals 4 + iterations?
  86 2011-07-04 00:22:47 <BlueMatt> I thought that was 4?
  87 2011-07-04 00:22:52 <BlueMatt> or just 4 total?
  88 2011-07-04 00:24:00 <sipa> what about using a string?
  89 2011-07-04 00:24:16 <sipa> + iterations
  90 2011-07-04 00:24:27 Soak has quit ()
  91 2011-07-04 00:24:35 <BlueMatt> thats why I said uint256, but...aw fuck it Ill just do a vch
  92 2011-07-04 00:24:40 jav__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  93 2011-07-04 00:24:55 <BlueMatt> nDeriveIterations and
  94 2011-07-04 00:24:58 <BlueMatt> vchOtherDerivationParameters
  95 2011-07-04 00:25:06 <sipa> so you'd store "evp/sha512" now, the only thing supported
  96 2011-07-04 00:25:28 <BlueMatt> oh, remove nDerivationMethod too?
  97 2011-07-04 00:25:31 suriv has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  98 2011-07-04 00:25:44 <sipa> and later maybe "scrypt/1,8"
  99 2011-07-04 00:26:15 <sipa> i don't care :)
 100 2011-07-04 00:26:17 <BlueMatt> I thought nDerivationMethod stays to represent that stuff, and vchOtherDerivationParameters for whatever other crap someone might need
 101 2011-07-04 00:26:28 <sipa> ok, fine
 102 2011-07-04 00:26:59 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 103 2011-07-04 00:27:55 <BlueMatt> ok Ill do that, and leave the vch empty for now
 104 2011-07-04 00:28:10 <sipa> yup
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 131 2011-07-04 01:09:24 <Graet> Diablo-D3 http://mksv.ath.cx/bit/stats.php is coming along now, need to add more pools, unfortunately not many pool owners are adding themselves :S
 132 2011-07-04 01:09:42 <Graet> so i'll be going thru and doing it when i have time
 133 2011-07-04 01:09:43 suriv has joined
 134 2011-07-04 01:11:45 BlueMattBot has joined
 135 2011-07-04 01:11:49 <Diablo-D3> lolbit
 136 2011-07-04 01:13:13 <BlueMatt> ok, to ask for the 100th time, vchPrivKeys are 271 bytes correct?
 137 2011-07-04 01:13:26 <Graet> how often are you going to update the top 10? ars is at 48ghash ozco.in at 63 ghash, it would help my pool to be in top 10 if it qualifies
 138 2011-07-04 01:13:36 <Graet> ars 48ghash
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 146 2011-07-04 01:18:13 <da2ce7> yo noagendamarket
 147 2011-07-04 01:18:30 <da2ce7> redirect bitcoin.com.au to http://184.22.42.25/
 148 2011-07-04 01:19:06 <^1bitc0inplz> Graet: good question, it's something I've wondered too.... those top 10 stickies need to be updated often, and updated by the pools "true" hash rate.... Ars is reporting to be 65GH/s when they are really *much* smaller
 149 2011-07-04 01:19:22 <noagendamarket> hey
 150 2011-07-04 01:19:24 <Graet> yes ^1bitc0inplz
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 156 2011-07-04 01:22:18 <Graet> Diablo-D3 how often are you going to update the top 10?
 157 2011-07-04 01:22:21 clr_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 158 2011-07-04 01:22:31 clr_ has joined
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 160 2011-07-04 01:24:16 <Diablo-D3> when I feel like it
 161 2011-07-04 01:24:36 <Diablo-D3> its not like pool rankings shift often
 162 2011-07-04 01:24:36 <Graet> thanks for your support
 163 2011-07-04 01:24:37 adrian is now known as Guest35416
 164 2011-07-04 01:24:54 <Graet> at the bottom of th 10 i think you will find it does
 165 2011-07-04 01:25:16 <Diablo-D3> yeah, maybe way down there
 166 2011-07-04 01:25:21 <Graet> and ppl in 11th that are annoeyd when they shoukld be in the 10 based on hashrates will be here talking to you
 167 2011-07-04 01:25:23 <Diablo-D3> but the majority of btc hashing power is in the top 5
 168 2011-07-04 01:25:35 <Diablo-D3> Graet: yes, and when someone bitches, it'll change
 169 2011-07-04 01:25:49 <Graet> if you are going to do a top 10 you ned to set criteria and do it properly or its invalid
 170 2011-07-04 01:25:52 <Graet> i am
 171 2011-07-04 01:26:00 <Graet> <Graet> how often are you going to update the top 10? ars is at 48ghash ozco.in at 63 ghash, it would help my pool to be in top 10 if it qualifies
 172 2011-07-04 01:26:16 <Diablo-D3> dear lord, does everyone own a pool now?
 173 2011-07-04 01:26:34 <Graet> wel;l we have been going nearly a month no
 174 2011-07-04 01:26:40 <Graet> lots have started since we did
 175 2011-07-04 01:26:49 <Graet> now*3
 176 2011-07-04 01:26:55 <^1bitc0inplz> Diablo-D3: did you not know about "all" the pools, before you stickyed the "top 10", lol
 177 2011-07-04 01:27:22 <Diablo-D3> ^1bitc0inplz: if pools dont make themselves known, they do not get stickied
 178 2011-07-04 01:27:36 <Graet> Diablo-D3 i asked you day one of your top 10
 179 2011-07-04 01:27:40 <Graet> nothing has changed
 180 2011-07-04 01:27:40 <^1bitc0inplz> ok, Diablo-D3: consider pool.bitp.it known, please stickie me :-D
 181 2011-07-04 01:28:06 <Graet> of what was the criteria for "best" and how oftem you would update
 182 2011-07-04 01:28:14 wolfspraul has joined
 183 2011-07-04 01:28:43 <Diablo-D3> Graet: what was the url for that table again?
 184 2011-07-04 01:28:56 <Graet> http://mksv.ath.cx/bit/stats.php
 185 2011-07-04 01:29:12 <Graet> he has prioper damain name waiting on dns atm
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 191 2011-07-04 01:31:50 <Diablo-D3> deeobit, btcguild, slush, bitcoinslc, mtred, ars, ...
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 196 2011-07-04 01:32:25 <Diablo-D3> need to add eclipse and bitp, and remove bitclockers and mineco.in
 197 2011-07-04 01:32:40 <Graet> um ok, buit why?
 198 2011-07-04 01:32:49 <Graet> remove?
 199 2011-07-04 01:33:00 <Diablo-D3> from the sticky list
 200 2011-07-04 01:33:05 <Graet> ahh cool :)
 201 2011-07-04 01:33:22 <Diablo-D3> whats the fourm threads for eclipse and bitp
 202 2011-07-04 01:34:38 <^1bitc0inplz> Diablo-D3: thank you, bitp.it -> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12181.0
 203 2011-07-04 01:35:23 <josephholsten> Diablo-D3: thank you!
 204 2011-07-04 01:36:15 <Graet> cant find one for eclipse :/ scrolled through and searched
 205 2011-07-04 01:36:31 <Diablo-D3> hrm, I need to add ozcoin too
 206 2011-07-04 01:36:36 * Diablo-D3 tries that again
 207 2011-07-04 01:36:39 <Graet> wooot :D
 208 2011-07-04 01:36:52 <Diablo-D3> oh wtf
 209 2011-07-04 01:36:58 <Diablo-D3> Graet: eligius isnt on that list
 210 2011-07-04 01:37:57 <Graet> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=14085.0  ,, ozco.in
 211 2011-07-04 01:38:10 <Diablo-D3> eclipse: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=16385.0
 212 2011-07-04 01:38:15 <Graet> i will register elgius on that site now
 213 2011-07-04 01:38:34 <Graet> ahh, you are better than me at forum stuff :)
 214 2011-07-04 01:39:19 ultrixx has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 215 2011-07-04 01:41:39 <Graet> thanks you Diablo-D3 , i d appreciate your efforts very much and will expand that list - hopefully it will become a useful tool to you :D
 216 2011-07-04 01:41:56 <Diablo-D3> stickies are now updated for the time being
 217 2011-07-04 01:42:38 <Graet> thank you Diablo-D3 :D
 218 2011-07-04 01:42:50 <Graet> now i'm in there i wont hassle you ;)
 219 2011-07-04 01:42:54 <Diablo-D3> Graet: that table is wrong
 220 2011-07-04 01:42:58 <Diablo-D3> it says bitclockers is at 10
 221 2011-07-04 01:43:00 <Diablo-D3> they're at 100
 222 2011-07-04 01:43:20 <ewal> bitclockers says 99 on my screen
 223 2011-07-04 01:43:24 <Graet> mm it scrapes from dites, but i'll let mperth know, thanks
 224 2011-07-04 01:43:34 <Diablo-D3> ewal: 99 != 10
 225 2011-07-04 01:43:38 <Graet> actually mine too
 226 2011-07-04 01:43:43 <Graet> refresh?
 227 2011-07-04 01:43:52 <Diablo-D3> ahh
 228 2011-07-04 01:43:55 <Graet> :)
 229 2011-07-04 01:43:57 <Diablo-D3> glitch I guess
 230 2011-07-04 01:44:00 <ewal> I thought you were saying it was supposed to be at 100.  99 is close enough.
 231 2011-07-04 01:44:12 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 232 2011-07-04 01:44:17 <Diablo-D3> well then someone gets nuked
 233 2011-07-04 01:44:17 HardDisk_WP has joined
 234 2011-07-04 01:44:26 <Graet> heh
 235 2011-07-04 01:46:21 <Diablo-D3> and its bitpit that gets it
 236 2011-07-04 01:46:36 <Graet> aww
 237 2011-07-04 01:46:44 <Graet> ^1bitc0inplz :9
 238 2011-07-04 01:46:59 <^1bitc0inplz> I'd be honored :-)
 239 2011-07-04 01:47:07 <^1bitc0inplz> to be in the list
 240 2011-07-04 01:48:02 <Diablo-D3> argh btcmine isnt on the list either
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 248 2011-07-04 02:01:43 <Graet> Diablo-D3 gotta go do stuff, thanks for your help :D
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 252 2011-07-04 02:04:44 <Blitzboom> http://www.links.org/files/decentralised-currencies.pdf
 253 2011-07-04 02:05:22 B0g4r7_ has joined
 254 2011-07-04 02:05:53 darin has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 255 2011-07-04 02:07:06 <Blitzboom> 7 got me thinking …
 256 2011-07-04 02:07:14 Beccara has joined
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 259 2011-07-04 02:08:02 gsathya has joined
 260 2011-07-04 02:08:29 <Blitzboom> would that be possible?
 261 2011-07-04 02:08:35 gsathya has quit (Client Quit)
 262 2011-07-04 02:08:56 accel has joined
 263 2011-07-04 02:08:58 <accel> random musings
 264 2011-07-04 02:09:06 <accel> has there been any case, where a bitcoin client developer
 265 2011-07-04 02:09:07 gsathya has joined
 266 2011-07-04 02:09:10 <accel> sneaks a backdoor into a bitconi client
 267 2011-07-04 02:09:14 <accel> and uses it to steal bitcoin wallets?
 268 2011-07-04 02:09:21 <Blitzboom> … no
 269 2011-07-04 02:09:21 gsathya has quit (Client Quit)
 270 2011-07-04 02:09:23 <accel> [I just realized the temptatino this provides ---
 271 2011-07-04 02:09:31 <accel> i.e. instead of attacking mtgox, people could attack the open source projects
 272 2011-07-04 02:09:35 <accel> and steal entire wallets
 273 2011-07-04 02:09:40 <sneak> attacking mtgox will remain easy though
 274 2011-07-04 02:09:45 <sneak> seeing as they have nfc what they're doing
 275 2011-07-04 02:09:46 <Blitzboom> the source code is very scrutinized
 276 2011-07-04 02:09:51 <Blitzboom> people would notice
 277 2011-07-04 02:09:55 flykoko has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 278 2011-07-04 02:10:00 <sneak> the thing is, there are lots of people debugging and analyzing bitcoin
 279 2011-07-04 02:10:12 <sneak> there are only a handful of security-clueless people trying to secure mtgox
 280 2011-07-04 02:10:20 <sneak> sites like that will remain the low-hanging fruit for some time
 281 2011-07-04 02:10:21 <kuboosh> i love the fact its licensed using MIT code :P
 282 2011-07-04 02:10:27 <sneak> also, idiots on windows who run any binaries they find on the web
 283 2011-07-04 02:11:58 <marioxcc> kuboosh: using "MIT code", huh?
 284 2011-07-04 02:12:06 <kuboosh> Licensed
 285 2011-07-04 02:12:11 <b4epoche_> is there a vector-based bitcoin logo anywhere?  Or does anyone know the font of the base B?
 286 2011-07-04 02:12:25 <marioxcc> kuboosh: maybe you mean MIT *license*, which is a meaningless statement as well as the MIT has used several different licenses
 287 2011-07-04 02:12:33 karnac has joined
 288 2011-07-04 02:12:35 <kuboosh> yes im aware of that
 289 2011-07-04 02:12:39 <kuboosh> with all the contributors
 290 2011-07-04 02:12:43 <kuboosh> :P no hard feelings
 291 2011-07-04 02:12:47 <b4epoche_> nm...  found some
 292 2011-07-04 02:13:02 <marioxcc> kuboosh: of course no, why would someone feel otherwise?
 293 2011-07-04 02:13:10 <b4epoche_> why is it that I always find the stuff I ask about after search for 10 minutes?
 294 2011-07-04 02:13:12 <kgo> Hey I'm trying to run a miner on testnet.  I want to make sure I'm setup right.  It seems like I'm running, but I don't get hits for difficulty 0 like I do on a normal pool.  Is this right?
 295 2011-07-04 02:13:14 <kuboosh> xD
 296 2011-07-04 02:13:35 clr_ has joined
 297 2011-07-04 02:14:01 <kuboosh> its pretty sick though, my buddy is developing a portfolio code to optimize skewed portfolios using MATLAB and were using the MIT licensed code. kind of neat
 298 2011-07-04 02:14:43 <marioxcc> kgo: don't you mean difficulty 1?
 299 2011-07-04 02:15:15 <b4epoche_> "portfolio code to optimize skewed portfolios"?
 300 2011-07-04 02:15:20 <b4epoche_> please elaborate
 301 2011-07-04 02:15:47 <b4epoche_> kuboosh ^
 302 2011-07-04 02:15:52 <kuboosh> Well this project isn't regarding bitcoin
 303 2011-07-04 02:15:56 <kgo> marioxcc, Possibly.  But when I'm mining with a pool, I see hashes that get accepted all the time.  I'm not seeing that with my current setup on -testnet.  I want to make sure this is normal.  That I'll only see 'accepted' on a real hit.  Or that I've got a crazy config.
 304 2011-07-04 02:16:12 <b4epoche_> kuboosh:  oh...  yea
 305 2011-07-04 02:16:14 <kgo> That I need to fix.
 306 2011-07-04 02:16:16 <kuboosh> yea :P
 307 2011-07-04 02:16:30 <kuboosh> ill keep you guys updated
 308 2011-07-04 02:16:52 <b4epoche_> kuboosh:  I've been really wanting to use my 15 years of experience with Matlab and Mathematica to use to make some money ;-)
 309 2011-07-04 02:16:58 <kuboosh> whoa
 310 2011-07-04 02:17:00 <kuboosh> :P
 311 2011-07-04 02:17:02 <kuboosh> awesome to know
 312 2011-07-04 02:17:03 <clr_> Has anyone got a client working with go?
 313 2011-07-04 02:17:06 <kuboosh> others use matlab here
 314 2011-07-04 02:17:07 <kuboosh> :P
 315 2011-07-04 02:17:08 karnac has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 316 2011-07-04 02:17:14 <kuboosh> well
 317 2011-07-04 02:17:32 <kuboosh> hes by no means a finance guru
 318 2011-07-04 02:17:34 <kuboosh> coder
 319 2011-07-04 02:17:49 <kuboosh> C++/C#/Matlab/fluent/nlopt
 320 2011-07-04 02:18:02 <b4epoche_> yea, I use those for physics, not finance
 321 2011-07-04 02:18:16 <kuboosh> yep
 322 2011-07-04 02:18:21 <b4epoche_> CFD
 323 2011-07-04 02:18:37 <b4epoche_> openfoam ftw
 324 2011-07-04 02:19:30 <b4epoche_> anyway, I'd like to learn more...  and while this /is/ off-topic for this room, it's not really interfering with coding talk
 325 2011-07-04 02:20:33 <b4epoche_> and I just got my client front-end to dump wallet priv keys to QR codes, so I'm done coding for the evening
 326 2011-07-04 02:20:49 <SeriousWorm> how come testnet is so high difficulty now? took a hour and a half or so to generate a block with my 300mhash/sec.
 327 2011-07-04 02:21:17 <kgo> SeriousWorm, I feel your pain.  Need 5 more confirms to test something.
 328 2011-07-04 02:21:31 copumpkin has joined
 329 2011-07-04 02:21:49 <SeriousWorm> does anyone think it will become valid for trades eventually? :) because if this continues, someone will probably start a testnet<>btc exchange since it's easy. on the other hand, it could be as easily reset.
 330 2011-07-04 02:21:50 <SeriousWorm> right?
 331 2011-07-04 02:22:18 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 332 2011-07-04 02:22:37 jimpsson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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 334 2011-07-04 02:23:48 <lolwat`> why doesnt someone just start a new testnet
 335 2011-07-04 02:23:54 <lolwat`> something between testnet-in-a-box and testnet
 336 2011-07-04 02:24:07 mindful has joined
 337 2011-07-04 02:24:18 <lolwat`> one that will get wiped more frequently, say every day at midnight
 338 2011-07-04 02:24:41 <lolwat`> would this be useful to others? if so i'd make one
 339 2011-07-04 02:24:57 <lolwat`> maybe also make blocks more frequent than 10 minutes
 340 2011-07-04 02:26:53 clr_ has left ("Ex-Chat")
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 344 2011-07-04 02:29:16 <nanotube> testnet in a box gets wiped as often as you like
 345 2011-07-04 02:32:01 copumpkin has joined
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 347 2011-07-04 02:37:22 <Graet> lolwat` on the internet dude. who's midnight lol
 348 2011-07-04 02:37:58 <lolwat`> true
 349 2011-07-04 02:38:01 <lolwat`> utc
 350 2011-07-04 02:38:06 <Graet> :0
 351 2011-07-04 02:38:11 <Graet> :)*
 352 2011-07-04 02:38:21 <lolwat`> programmer's midnight is always utc :]
 353 2011-07-04 02:38:25 <cacheson> british time clock
 354 2011-07-04 02:38:27 <Graet> yer true :)
 355 2011-07-04 02:38:30 <cacheson> (btc)
 356 2011-07-04 02:38:52 <Graet> see but my initials are GMT so meantime holds a special place in my heart :P
 357 2011-07-04 02:38:58 <Graet> lmao
 358 2011-07-04 02:39:55 <nanotube> SeriousWorm: i'll sell you some testnetbtc :P
 359 2011-07-04 02:40:04 <SeriousWorm> :)
 360 2011-07-04 02:43:19 slush has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 361 2011-07-04 02:46:12 <jgarzik> SeriousWorm: yes, we've reset testnet in the past.  created a new genesis block.  currently we're on testnet v2.
 362 2011-07-04 02:46:32 <jgarzik> ;;seen ArtForz
 363 2011-07-04 02:46:32 <gribble> ArtForz was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 weeks, 5 days, 4 hours, 28 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <ArtForz> eternal beta. hah, satoshi is secretly a google employee!
 364 2011-07-04 02:46:53 <SeriousWorm> I know. Also, good night, it's 4:43 and I really ought to get some sleep. :)
 365 2011-07-04 02:47:16 <Blitzboom> actually i have read that satoshi wanted to take bitcoin out of beta with the 0.3 release
 366 2011-07-04 02:50:24 <kunnis> I was wondering if there's much intrest in improving the networking code to make it more efficent/faster.  I was thinking of maybe trying to help it out some.
 367 2011-07-04 02:51:15 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 368 2011-07-04 02:52:30 <sacarlson> kunnis: I don't think you will find many complaining about faster
 369 2011-07-04 02:53:14 <kunnis> One usually leads to the other
 370 2011-07-04 02:57:58 <jgarzik> faster than what?
 371 2011-07-04 02:58:46 <jgarzik> the networking code isn't exactly bottlenecking on anything, in 0.3.24
 372 2011-07-04 02:58:56 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
 373 2011-07-04 02:59:08 TheSeven has joined
 374 2011-07-04 02:59:13 <jgarzik> more efficient is always welcome.  "faster" seems subjective, and difficult without actually changing the protocol.
 375 2011-07-04 03:03:28 <wasabi2> kunnis: Add IPv6 support, if anything. :)
 376 2011-07-04 03:03:51 <jgarzik> luke-jr already has an IPv6 patch, iirc
 377 2011-07-04 03:03:56 <wasabi2> Oh, nevermind then.
 378 2011-07-04 03:04:02 <wasabi2> (also, yay)
 379 2011-07-04 03:04:30 freakazoid has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 380 2011-07-04 03:05:52 <luke-jr> jgarzik: not complete
 381 2011-07-04 03:05:55 marioxcc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 382 2011-07-04 03:06:49 <kunnis> Downloading the block chain from scratch is rather show for how much data is in it.
 383 2011-07-04 03:06:53 <kunnis> slow
 384 2011-07-04 03:07:27 <wasabi2> It would be useful to have an export/import block chain function.
 385 2011-07-04 03:08:07 <luke-jr> jgarzik: btw, do you maintain pushpool still, or did your comment the other day imply it is now unmaintained?
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 390 2011-07-04 03:22:52 <jgarzik> luke-jr: pushpool is actively maintained.  no idea what comment to which you refer
 391 2011-07-04 03:23:17 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 392 2011-07-04 03:23:22 <luke-jr> jgarzik: giving up on pool stuff because of legal issues
 393 2011-07-04 03:23:45 <jgarzik> luke-jr: that's just xf2.org hosting
 394 2011-07-04 03:23:46 nidefawl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 395 2011-07-04 03:24:04 <luke-jr> isn't that the extent of your involvemnet in pools?
 396 2011-07-04 03:25:48 <jgarzik> luke-jr: There do not appear to be any obvious legal issues with maintaining pool software.  There are substantial legal uses in all countries and territories.
 397 2011-07-04 03:26:24 <luke-jr> so you just maintain it… to maintain it? XD
 398 2011-07-04 03:26:37 <nanotube> kunnis: yea blockchain retrieval could be improved...
 399 2011-07-04 03:26:43 <mekel> anyone on attend summercon this year?
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 405 2011-07-04 03:37:25 <noagendamarket> Do you think they will try to classify miners as money transmitters ?
 406 2011-07-04 03:37:37 <noagendamarket> or as mints ?
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 412 2011-07-04 03:47:29 Workbench is now known as workbench
 413 2011-07-04 03:49:29 <linagee> what does this mean? "Block-chain lock-in at 134444"
 414 2011-07-04 03:50:27 <linagee> is this to hard code part of the block chain or something
 415 2011-07-04 03:54:06 lolwat` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 416 2011-07-04 03:55:18 <Diablo-D3> I just thought of a funny idea
 417 2011-07-04 03:55:34 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 418 2011-07-04 03:55:37 <Diablo-D3> a pool that is a lottery
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 423 2011-07-04 04:04:28 <[Tycho]> Diablo-D3, yeah. Name it "solo mining"
 424 2011-07-04 04:04:37 <Diablo-D3> [Tycho]: no, even better
 425 2011-07-04 04:04:44 <Diablo-D3> once a week I do a payout to a random share
 426 2011-07-04 04:07:55 <Diablo-D3> so it could be 50, 100, 150, who knows
 427 2011-07-04 04:12:02 sacarlson has joined
 428 2011-07-04 04:13:10 <cacheson> then people could make pools that get work from your pool, in order to reduce the variance
 429 2011-07-04 04:15:15 mekel has joined
 430 2011-07-04 04:16:41 <mekel> hey does anyone know of a custom install of windows? Like a modded version of the OS that includes things from all the different windows installs?
 431 2011-07-04 04:17:57 <Diablo-D3> cacheson: let them
 432 2011-07-04 04:18:28 <Evious> Hi, I'm writing an Erlang wrapper library for bitcoind, and have questions. 1. Are there any existing best practices for running bitcoind I should know about? 2. Is it possible to use stdin/stdout for commands instead of JSON-RPC, without using bitcoin as a wrapper?
 433 2011-07-04 04:18:38 <cacheson> Diablo-D3: very meta
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 440 2011-07-04 04:25:39 <^1bitc0inplz> Envious: I've not seen any provisions in the code for STDIN/STDOUT operations.... it looks like JSON-RPC is the only means of controlling it externally
 441 2011-07-04 04:26:15 <^1bitc0inplz> however, I've pondered the idea of linking against it to remove the need to JSON-RPC and just making function calls... but, I'm too lazy :-)
 442 2011-07-04 04:26:56 kgo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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 445 2011-07-04 04:33:28 * Evious is mostly confused by the basic HTTP auth on a service restricted to localhost. In most cases someone can make a connection from localhost. I guess it's a casual deterrent in a multi-user system where users can't read each other's files...
 446 2011-07-04 04:35:52 Stellar has joined
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 448 2011-07-04 04:38:01 <hamush> does anyone know offhand if the bitcoin client is backwards compatible, network-wise? in other words, is 0.3.21 borked now that 0.3.23 is out?
 449 2011-07-04 04:38:57 <nanotube> hamush: no
 450 2011-07-04 04:39:00 <nanotube> not borked
 451 2011-07-04 04:39:21 <hamush> thanks, good to know :)
 452 2011-07-04 04:39:28  has joined
 453 2011-07-04 04:39:36 <nanotube> that said, never a bad idea to upgrade to .23 :)
 454 2011-07-04 04:40:13 <hamush> i'd like to, but i'm on an older, linux distro that doesn't include the build prereqs or a glibc version new enough to run the .23 binaries
 455 2011-07-04 04:40:37 <hamush> so i'm sticking with .21 until i upgrade
 456 2011-07-04 04:41:10 <nanotube> ah
 457 2011-07-04 04:42:40 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 458 2011-07-04 04:47:17 <jgarzik> hamush: try .24rc1.  I -think- BlueMatt built it on older distro
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 461 2011-07-04 04:49:16 <hamush> jgarzik: i'll give that a try, thank you!
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 464 2011-07-04 04:59:35 <doublec> I get an error building latest git with miniupnp 1.5.20110623
 465 2011-07-04 05:00:04 <doublec> error: too few arguments to function ‘UPNPDev* upnpDiscover(int, const char*, const char*, int, int, int*)’
 466 2011-07-04 05:00:05  is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-69-208-142-58.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net|Netsniper
 467 2011-07-04 05:00:10 <doublec> on linux
 468 2011-07-04 05:01:18 <doublec> using: make -f makefile.unix USE_UPNP=0 bitcoind
 469 2011-07-04 05:01:36 <jgarzik> doublec: gah.  I just love it when upstream arbitrarily changes a function signature.  I mean... who would have thought API breakage matters to anyone?
 470 2011-07-04 05:02:02 <jgarzik> jansson did that too.  changed the number of arguments passed to json_loads(), without any thought to compatibility.
 471 2011-07-04 05:02:10 <doublec> yeah, pretty frustrating
 472 2011-07-04 05:02:40 <doublec> what version was used for building?
 473 2011-07-04 05:02:51 <doublec> the build-unix.txt only mentions 1.5
 474 2011-07-04 05:03:27 <doublec> UPNP_AddPortMapping has also changed number of arguments it seems
 475 2011-07-04 05:03:57 <doublec> either that or the bitcoin code is wrong. It checks for a WX define to see if its windows and passes a different number of arguments if it is
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 478 2011-07-04 05:07:03 <jgarzik> doublec: poke BlueMatt tomorrow, or file an issue on github.  We'll take care of it, one way or another.
 479 2011-07-04 05:07:05 Beccara has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 480 2011-07-04 05:07:36 <doublec> jgarzik: will do
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 506 2011-07-04 06:07:27 <OneFixt> does anyone know how to get in touch with slush?
 507 2011-07-04 06:08:55 noagendamarket has joined
 508 2011-07-04 06:11:51 <[Tycho]> Have you tried PM on forum ?
 509 2011-07-04 06:12:12 kuboosh has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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 511 2011-07-04 06:12:29 <Shuro> Hi there, how did i create a bitcoin-pool? :-)
 512 2011-07-04 06:12:56 <[Tycho]> Hello, Shuro. Search for pushpoold.
 513 2011-07-04 06:14:03 <Shuro> Thanks, did i also need expensive hardware for a pool?
 514 2011-07-04 06:14:32  is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-240-195-102.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
 515 2011-07-04 06:15:24 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 516 2011-07-04 06:15:52 <[Tycho]> Well, actually you don't need any hardware. You'll just rent some dedicated servers.
 517 2011-07-04 06:17:12 manifold_ has joined
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 521 2011-07-04 06:18:09 <Shuro> I think a dedicated server is much less than multiple mining rigs.  did pushpoold supports the default mining clients? is there an alternative to pushpoold?
 522 2011-07-04 06:18:50 <[Tycho]> AFAIK it's the only existing open-source pool software.
 523 2011-07-04 06:19:32 manifold_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 524 2011-07-04 06:19:47 f33x has quit (Quit: f33x)
 525 2011-07-04 06:20:27 <Shuro> Okay, but it is compatible to mining clients like Phoenix-miner or Poclbm ?
 526 2011-07-04 06:20:42 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 527 2011-07-04 06:21:20 <Shuro> Thats cool :-) Thanks
 528 2011-07-04 06:23:26 dbasch has joined
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 530 2011-07-04 06:32:20 <rethaw> its so quiet
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 535 2011-07-04 06:35:55 <Joric> 0.3.24rc1 patch to show total number of blocks http://pastebin.com/ESurLrrL
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 540 2011-07-04 06:42:50 <devrandom> ;;later tell BlueMatt ami-7a21d213 is a Windows ami
 541 2011-07-04 06:42:51 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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 588 2011-07-04 08:23:36 <Joric> just made win32 build with wallet encription, ain't it cool http://i55.tinypic.com/f9mn8h.png
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 622 2011-07-04 08:49:11 <sivu> damnit why does the testnest difficulty have to be so hard. takes forever to test software
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 631 2011-07-04 08:53:49 <sipa> sivu: try testnet-in-a-box
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 653 2011-07-04 09:14:03 <sipa> ;;bc,satts
 654 2011-07-04 09:14:03 <gribble> Error: "bc,satts" is not a valid command.
 655 2011-07-04 09:14:05 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
 656 2011-07-04 09:14:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134682 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 389 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 14 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1575302.31125655
 657 2011-07-04 09:14:17 <sipa> ;;bc,nethash
 658 2011-07-04 09:14:18 <gribble> 11850.246642337084
 659 2011-07-04 09:17:14 <Joric> Just figured out if you're trying to read encrypted wallet with official client (0.3.24rc1 in my case) wallet gets destroyed and not readable by anything
 660 2011-07-04 09:17:18 <Joric> not nice!
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 662 2011-07-04 09:17:26 <epscy> that difficulty jump doesn't look too huge
 663 2011-07-04 09:17:32 <epscy> compared to previous ones
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 668 2011-07-04 09:20:17 <JFK911> ha
 669 2011-07-04 09:22:04 <Joric> i've just lost 20 btc i mined in 2009 :) not much but still
 670 2011-07-04 09:22:49 <sipa> Joric: encrypted by BlueMatt's newenc branch?
 671 2011-07-04 09:23:04 <Joric> yeah
 672 2011-07-04 09:23:10 <sipa> it shouldn't destroy it, i believe
 673 2011-07-04 09:23:19 <sipa> but you shouldn't use that branch for production either
 674 2011-07-04 09:23:25 <Joric> just kidding i've used dummy wallet
 675 2011-07-04 09:23:42 <Joric> i didn't expect it anyway
 676 2011-07-04 09:25:23 <lfm> epscy: you're right, it is a relativly small difficulty increase coming up. Fallout of the mtgox hack I suspect.
 677 2011-07-04 09:25:34 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 678 2011-07-04 09:26:04 <Joric> sipa, also in crypter.cpp you have to move headers.h to the very top otherwise you'll get a whole bunch of "Cannot convert from 'const wchar_t *' to '_TCHAR *'" (more precisely, wx.h should be included before windows.h)
 679 2011-07-04 09:26:10 <Joric> i wrote about it already
 680 2011-07-04 09:26:48 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt < Joric> sipa, also in crypter.cpp you have to move headers.h to the very top otherwise you'll get a whole bunch of "Cannot convert from 'const wchar_t *' to '_TCHAR *'" (more precisely, wx.h should be included before windows.h)
 681 2011-07-04 09:26:48 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 682 2011-07-04 09:26:50 <epscy> lfm: at least it is still going up...
 683 2011-07-04 09:27:04 sipa has left ()
 684 2011-07-04 09:27:19 <epscy> i can't help thinking that the mtgox hack and a medium term cooling of the market is probably a good thing
 685 2011-07-04 09:27:51 <lfm> epscy: ya, I spoze a lot of people might agree with that
 686 2011-07-04 09:30:23 <epscy> it seems to me bitcoin is far more likely to take off in the east first than the west
 687 2011-07-04 09:30:34 <epscy> bitcoin does micropayments very well
 688 2011-07-04 09:30:53 <epscy> and in places like india they have micro loans which have been quite successful
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 691 2011-07-04 09:31:31 <epscy> what we need is a small low power device, possibly solar powered that stores a wallet and allows you to send and receive transactions
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 693 2011-07-04 09:32:00 <epscy> i could see such an "electronic wallet" taking off big in developing countries
 694 2011-07-04 09:34:59 <UukGoblin> it'd require a 3g network
 695 2011-07-04 09:35:23 <UukGoblin> and to receive transactions it'd have to be powered on
 696 2011-07-04 09:35:39 <UukGoblin> transmitting 3g data is inherently non-low-power ;-)
 697 2011-07-04 09:36:16 <UukGoblin> well... maybe receiving isn't transmitting... we could ask the network to multicast bitcoin transactions via udp... ;-P
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 701 2011-07-04 09:43:58 <lfm> epscy: there is the confirmation delay still
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 705 2011-07-04 09:46:22 <epscy> UukGoblin: yeah I guess ubiquitous internet is a neccessary requirement as well
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 707 2011-07-04 09:47:10 <epscy> lfm: I dobut the confirmation delay would be much of a factor for day to day small transactions, but i could be wrong
 708 2011-07-04 09:47:35 <epscy> it won't be more of a problem than it is for anyone else at least
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 711 2011-07-04 09:50:19 <knotwork> does -allowrpc work? googling bitcoind -allowprc all I find is someone else having problems and the responses think maybe it is a work in progress and you cannot yet actually connect to bitcoind from another machine?
 712 2011-07-04 09:50:33 <knotwork> oops I mean -rpcallowip
 713 2011-07-04 09:51:42 <knotwork> heh maybe I made that same slip in a script somewhere that would explain it
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 718 2011-07-04 09:53:25 <UukGoblin> epscy, for developing countries: bitbills
 719 2011-07-04 09:53:55 <lfm> epscy: what scenerios do you see a portable wallet being used?
 720 2011-07-04 09:54:26 <epscy> the same scenearios that micro loans are used
 721 2011-07-04 09:54:35 <epscy> but i haven't looked into this very closely
 722 2011-07-04 09:54:43 <epscy> so it could just be a brain fart
 723 2011-07-04 09:55:35 <lfm> ah, ya maybe that would work. loans do tend to take a while to transact anyway.
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 729 2011-07-04 09:59:47 <lfm> not so sure about developing countries, they dont always have the internet substructure needed
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 732 2011-07-04 10:01:10 <lfm> like is someone who would find a micro loan usefull gonna pay monthly internet access bills?
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 735 2011-07-04 10:03:11 <epscy> you don't neccessarily need to online all the time
 736 2011-07-04 10:03:50 <epscy> if a person can get to a wifi hotspot within a couple of miles then I can see it working reasonable
 737 2011-07-04 10:04:24 <epscy> and internet does exist in developing countries, though I agree it may not be commonplace enough yet
 738 2011-07-04 10:04:33 <lfm> well ya, you could just "dial up" when you need to do a transaction and bitcoin will try to catch back up to the block chain, then if you receive funds you need to stay for an hour to confirm, but I spoze you could do it that way
 739 2011-07-04 10:04:39 <spq> you need to be online to verify that the other one really sent the payment and that is valid
 740 2011-07-04 10:05:39 <spq> you dont even require to be online to send a payment, you could also give the one who wants the money the transaction and he could later submit it
 741 2011-07-04 10:05:51 accel has joined
 742 2011-07-04 10:05:57 <lfm> has anyone here ever run bitcoin on a dial up connection? is the data load handled ok?
 743 2011-07-04 10:06:23 <accel> why not?
 744 2011-07-04 10:06:36 <lfm> accel it can be rather a lot
 745 2011-07-04 10:06:37 <spq> but you need the whole blockchain until the transaction and some blocks after the transaction was embedded in a block to verify the transaction took place
 746 2011-07-04 10:06:40 <accel> it only needs to sync every 10 minutes or so, no?
 747 2011-07-04 10:06:52 <lfm> spq yup
 748 2011-07-04 10:06:57 <accel> lfm: what is announced besides when someone discovers a new block?
 749 2011-07-04 10:07:14 <epscy> i get the impression in some developing countries that currency is used as often as bartering
 750 2011-07-04 10:07:38 <lfm> accel:  every transaction is sent out to every node bewteen blocks also
 751 2011-07-04 10:07:48 <epscy> i think it was genjix who said that in africa and india they use mobile phone top up cards as currency
 752 2011-07-04 10:08:18 <epscy> so i see bitcoin as being one option of payment
 753 2011-07-04 10:08:31 <accel> lfm: I thought the way transactions worked (I'm probably totally wrong, so correct my understanding)
 754 2011-07-04 10:08:34 <lfm> epscy: yes, but their mobile phones tend to be a bit different from ours I think.
 755 2011-07-04 10:08:37 <accel> is that you take a bunch of transactions, you create a hash of it
 756 2011-07-04 10:08:52 <accel> then you embed this hash into the new block that is discovered
 757 2011-07-04 10:08:53 <Joric> UukGoblin, check this out :) just made a qr code for myself http://twitpic.com/5l12rn
 758 2011-07-04 10:09:13 <spq> accel: right
 759 2011-07-04 10:09:23 <lfm> accel: yes and if the transactions do not get spread around BEFORE the block, how would they get included in the block?
 760 2011-07-04 10:09:51 <accel> lfm: those get into the next block
 761 2011-07-04 10:10:16 <accel> (I don't know if that's for certain; this is my mental model of how bitcoin works)
 762 2011-07-04 10:10:25 <lfm> accel: ya but they are not part of a block till they are included in one
 763 2011-07-04 10:11:53 <lfm> accel: so the txn go out to everyone right away. the blocks then come in to confirm the ones they have seen
 764 2011-07-04 10:12:13 <UukGoblin> Joric, great ;-)
 765 2011-07-04 10:14:08 <epscy> lfm: different in what way?, here in the uk we have mobile phone top cards
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 768 2011-07-04 10:14:32 <epscy> in fact they sell ones that are aimed at people from the developing world
 769 2011-07-04 10:14:36 <Joric> V05, error correction level H
 770 2011-07-04 10:14:37 <lfm> or in special cases the blocks only confirm the txn they wish to honor liek if some txn didnt have enuf fee to satisfy that miner
 771 2011-07-04 10:15:05 <Joric> just like BBC logo
 772 2011-07-04 10:15:25 <Joric> except BBC logo is not that ugly
 773 2011-07-04 10:15:37 <lfm> epscy: ya, those cards are the same, the phones tend to be the very cheap voice only no data phones from what I have heard.
 774 2011-07-04 10:16:07 <epscy> yeah i wasn't suggesting they use the phones as bitcoin clients
 775 2011-07-04 10:16:12 <lfm> like cheaper that you can even find most places like Canada (where I am)
 776 2011-07-04 10:16:53 <epscy> jsut commenting on the fact that using mobile phone top up cards as currency suggests there is a need that bitcoin could fulfil
 777 2011-07-04 10:17:01 <lfm> epscy: ok, you were proposing a special purpose device then? for bitcoin only?
 778 2011-07-04 10:17:31 <epscy> maybe UukGoblin is right and bitbills are the way to go, but i don't they lend themselves to small transactions very well
 779 2011-07-04 10:17:36 <epscy> lfm: yeah
 780 2011-07-04 10:17:56 <epscy> but obviously there are some technical issues that would need to be worked out
 781 2011-07-04 10:18:03 <epscy> and probably some social ones as well
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 784 2011-07-04 10:18:20 <MacRohard> someone could easily make an SMS driven bitcoin application
 785 2011-07-04 10:18:38 <MacRohard> entring bitcoin addresses might be a bit of a pain though i guess
 786 2011-07-04 10:18:40 <epscy> sms exchange, that is a good idea
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 788 2011-07-04 10:18:48 <lfm> epscy: I just dont see it happening. the reason they use phone cards instead of cash is the local currency is unstable (i guess) not cuz they are looking for some electronic technological way to do things
 789 2011-07-04 10:19:23 <lfm> MacRohard: iiiieee. you know how expensive SMS is tho? itd kill ya
 790 2011-07-04 10:19:23 <MacRohard> lfm, no it's because they can be sent electronically.. it's a means of remote paying
 791 2011-07-04 10:19:36 <Joric> http://btc.to/6a is not painful
 792 2011-07-04 10:19:40 <MacRohard> lfm, i don't, but i dobut that
 793 2011-07-04 10:19:52 <epscy> lfm: i thought it was partly because phone cards can be moved between countries easily without paying fees
 794 2011-07-04 10:20:13 <lfm> MacRohard: SMS is about 50000 times more expensive than email
 795 2011-07-04 10:20:30 <phedny> lfm: hmm.. you must have cheap SMS in that case :)
 796 2011-07-04 10:20:33 <MacRohard> lfm, email is free so that doesn't really mean anything
 797 2011-07-04 10:21:01 <epscy> lfm: in the west sms is expensive, for various reasons
 798 2011-07-04 10:21:17 <epscy> but once the infrastructure is in place sms can be quite cheap
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 802 2011-07-04 10:21:33 <epscy> of course an sms charge is essentially a fee
 803 2011-07-04 10:21:34 <lfm> MacRohard: per second of network time used, SMS is about a million times more expensive than voice calls. Youd be better of useing a 300 baud acoustic modem then SMS
 804 2011-07-04 10:21:37 <MacRohard> i expect sms is similarly priced in africa to the west.. if you're transferring say $10 or something then $0.14 isn't that much of a transaction fee to pay
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 808 2011-07-04 10:22:07 <epscy> MacRohard: micro loans are typically a dollar or less
 809 2011-07-04 10:22:09 <Grady2000> hey all, is it possible to view the updated balance of a "savings account btc wallet" through block explorer?
 810 2011-07-04 10:22:17 <MacRohard> lfm, maybe. but irrelevant - gsm data is usually a better deal than 3g on a byte basis too
 811 2011-07-04 10:22:21 <lfm> MacRohard: maybe for you 14 cents isnt much!
 812 2011-07-04 10:22:46 <MacRohard> epscy, i dunno abotu that.. it seems unlikely to me. you can't buy anything with $1 in africa any more than you can here
 813 2011-07-04 10:23:48 <lfm> epscy: As I understood them micro loans were $100 or less typically
 814 2011-07-04 10:24:06 <MacRohard> when people say things like people are living on less than $1/day it just means that there's virtually no money used in day to day transactions.. more barter. It doesn't mean that if you had $100 you'd be rich
 815 2011-07-04 10:24:18 <epscy> i am sure i heard about one dollar loans in rural india
 816 2011-07-04 10:24:40 <lfm> MacRohard: yes yes and they grow their own food and dont pay rent or taxes
 817 2011-07-04 10:24:47 <MacRohard> lfm, right
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 819 2011-07-04 10:25:38 <lfm> epscy: The architypical micro loan I always heard about was enuf to buy a sewing machine to start a taylor buisness
 820 2011-07-04 10:27:11 <lfm> (note they still make manual foot powered sewing machines that dont need electricity
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 822 2011-07-04 10:28:27 <epscy> fair enough, i may be off base with this one then
 823 2011-07-04 10:28:51 <MacRohard> more like they take out a micro-loan and buy a bus ticket to the nearest large city and then beg from tourists to repay it ;)
 824 2011-07-04 10:29:19 <lfm> MacRohard: Um I dont think they give out those typical microloans for that tho
 825 2011-07-04 10:29:30 <MacRohard> ever heard of fraud?
 826 2011-07-04 10:29:51 <MacRohard> it's when you say you're doing something for one reason when actually you're doing it for another reason
 827 2011-07-04 10:30:10 <lfm> are you say you will repay when you wont
 828 2011-07-04 10:30:32 <MacRohard> i dunno.. some prolly repay some prolly don't *shrug*
 829 2011-07-04 10:30:53 <lfm> they claim they get like a 95% repayment rate
 830 2011-07-04 10:31:11 <MacRohard> maybe they have good loan enforcement officers ;)
 831 2011-07-04 10:31:24 <lfm> note also they mostly give the micro loans to women
 832 2011-07-04 10:31:37 <enquirer> no they won't use bitcoins
 833 2011-07-04 10:31:40 <MacRohard> that's generally what pimps do
 834 2011-07-04 10:31:42 <lfm> women are better with money
 835 2011-07-04 10:31:55 <MacRohard> tell women they're in debt and then make them work in a brothel until the debt is payed
 836 2011-07-04 10:32:47 <lfm> MacRohard: well that may work but I dont think the microloan people are doing that
 837 2011-07-04 10:32:51 <enquirer> bitcoin brothel makes sense
 838 2011-07-04 10:33:04 <lfm> enquirer: lol yup
 839 2011-07-04 10:33:08 <MacRohard> lfm, maybe not directly but i'm sure the people on the ground are
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 845 2011-07-04 10:33:49 <enquirer> considering 99% miners are nerd virgins
 846 2011-07-04 10:34:05 <epscy> maybe small denominations of bitbills is a better idea
 847 2011-07-04 10:34:12 <lfm> lots of competition for brothels already, no need to finace them generally
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 849 2011-07-04 10:34:27 <Shuro> did someone know an alternative rpc class for php? the class in the bitcoin-wiki is not very clear with exceptions
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 851 2011-07-04 10:35:16 <lfm> epscy: why not just use regular money?
 852 2011-07-04 10:35:40 <epscy> lfm: yeah you have a point
 853 2011-07-04 10:35:57 <epscy> the only reason is if the local currency is unstable as you said earlier
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 855 2011-07-04 10:36:30 <lfm> epscy: once there social systems get built up to the interent age level then we can convert them to bitcoin
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 857 2011-07-04 10:36:54 <MacRohard> people in cities have cellphones
 858 2011-07-04 10:36:59 <MacRohard> people in villages are moving into the cities
 859 2011-07-04 10:37:29 <erus`> people get rich and move back to the country
 860 2011-07-04 10:37:29 <lfm> epscy: I think the most popular way out is to start using US$ or Euro then
 861 2011-07-04 10:37:50 <phedny> several African countries use M-Pesa for mobile payments and it's used very widely in some countries
 862 2011-07-04 10:37:53 <phedny> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-Pesa
 863 2011-07-04 10:38:02 <epscy> lfm: and what if the euro and dollare are instable? ;)
 864 2011-07-04 10:38:11 <epscy> bitcoin! thats what
 865 2011-07-04 10:38:18 <lfm> coss that bridge when we come to it.
 866 2011-07-04 10:38:24 <lfm> cross
 867 2011-07-04 10:38:27 <phedny> so it would be interesting to use the M-Pesa concept with Bitcoin and convince African people to use it
 868 2011-07-04 10:38:30 <MacRohard> we need an iranian bitcoin exchange
 869 2011-07-04 10:38:38 <MacRohard> those guys have serious problems paying for shit internationally
 870 2011-07-04 10:38:39 <phedny> they're already used to SMS for payments, the change is the currency that's used
 871 2011-07-04 10:38:55 <MacRohard> oil for bitcoins
 872 2011-07-04 10:39:10 <lfm> I dont think any solution that relys on electricity and internet is really suitable there
 873 2011-07-04 10:39:28 <erus`> now we have bitcoin porn i thought usage would explode
 874 2011-07-04 10:39:35 <erus`> maybe bitcoin livecams
 875 2011-07-04 10:39:44 <phedny> lfm: and agent handling Bitcoin payments offering an SMS interface may
 876 2011-07-04 10:40:12 <lfm> phedny: ya maybe, for international payments especially
 877 2011-07-04 10:40:27 <Joric> speaking of encryption, "Set the number of SHA512 rounds based on the speed of the computer." is it ok? :) i mean pocket pc processors are slower
 878 2011-07-04 10:41:02 <Joric> keepass uses fixed 6000 encryption rounds
 879 2011-07-04 10:41:20 sacredchao has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 880 2011-07-04 10:41:28 <lfm> Joric: I dont get it? just set the numvber of rounds to be suitable for the slowest machine. if that isnt enuf security then its just wrong
 881 2011-07-04 10:42:12 <Joric> i mean this pull request https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/352
 882 2011-07-04 10:42:44 <Joric> it's not ajustable
 883 2011-07-04 10:43:01 fnord0 has joined
 884 2011-07-04 10:43:08 <lfm> ya its for a wallet passphrase hash key? same objection. why do extra rounds if the slowest is good enuf
 885 2011-07-04 10:43:10 <enquirer> brad cohen collected porn specifically to jump-start bit torrent
 886 2011-07-04 10:43:46 BlueMatt has joined
 887 2011-07-04 10:44:04 <Joric> cohen claims he has Asperger syndrome based on a self diagnosis :)
 888 2011-07-04 10:44:41 <lfm> ok so either he has it and he is right or he is just nuts
 889 2011-07-04 10:44:48 <enquirer> well most bitcoiners do have asperger, satoshi for sure )
 890 2011-07-04 10:44:59 <Joric> count me out
 891 2011-07-04 10:45:05 <erus`> most people who use IRC
 892 2011-07-04 10:45:11 <lfm> I dont think I have that excuse
 893 2011-07-04 10:45:17 <erus`> 99% of programmers
 894 2011-07-04 10:45:32 <lfm> occasional mild OCD perhaps
 895 2011-07-04 10:46:03 <lfm> and 98% of stats are made up on the spot
 896 2011-07-04 10:46:14 <erus`> 1 in 5 female chess players are gay
 897 2011-07-04 10:46:23 <erus`> honestly
 898 2011-07-04 10:46:28 <erus`> i read it on a blog
 899 2011-07-04 10:46:38 <lfm> you checked out all 5 yourself?
 900 2011-07-04 10:46:52 <erus`> theres hundreds of hot female chess players
 901 2011-07-04 10:47:13 <lfm> you didnt say you were only counting the hot ones
 902 2011-07-04 10:48:24 <erus`> well if hotness doesnt factor into wether women like chess or not then we can extrapolate that hundreds * (average and ugly girls) girls play chess
 903 2011-07-04 10:48:42 <erus`> i think thats > 5
 904 2011-07-04 10:48:52 <Joric> if we belived every antisocial dick who self diagnosed with assburgers
 905 2011-07-04 10:49:06 <lfm> ok so how many did you check for "gayness" yourself?
 906 2011-07-04 10:49:24 <erus`> i read it on a blog, i didnt check the figures
 907 2011-07-04 10:50:11 <enquirer> anyway his bet on porn succeede hugely
 908 2011-07-04 10:50:16 <lfm> ok, I guess if it was in a blog we must beleive it
 909 2011-07-04 10:50:30 <enquirer> today 50% of world internet traffic is bittoren
 910 2011-07-04 10:50:55 <enquirer> we should start pushing porn for btc
 911 2011-07-04 10:51:13 <enquirer> and i think porn is better than drugs )
 912 2011-07-04 10:51:16 <Joric> it's already there, check tor
 913 2011-07-04 10:51:22 `10` has joined
 914 2011-07-04 10:51:26 <lfm> enquirer: enquirer I think thats old figure, I heard video from youtube and netflix and a few of the other main sites was bigger than bittorrent now
 915 2011-07-04 10:51:45 kubhoosh has joined
 916 2011-07-04 10:51:48 <erus`> as soon as a joe blogs starts using bitcoin, the government will intervene
 917 2011-07-04 10:52:04 <lfm> erus last week?
 918 2011-07-04 10:53:01 <erus`> my IT manager doesnt even know about bitcoin
 919 2011-07-04 10:53:05 <erus`> and hes in IT
 920 2011-07-04 10:53:15 kuboosh has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 921 2011-07-04 10:53:20 <erus`> let alone my friends
 922 2011-07-04 10:53:33 <lfm> well why havnt you told them?
 923 2011-07-04 10:55:00 <erus`> I do. they dont understand how it works and i told them to read the wiki page but why would they
 924 2011-07-04 10:55:08 <erus`> you cant do much with them yet
 925 2011-07-04 10:55:16 <lfm> ok so they have heard of it then from you
 926 2011-07-04 10:55:56 sacredchao has joined
 927 2011-07-04 10:56:36 <erus`> forgotten by now
 928 2011-07-04 10:57:35 <lfm> naw, if they see another reference to it from somewhere else within the next couple week they will prolly remember you were on to it first and your rep will go up a notch
 929 2011-07-04 10:58:42 Sebastan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 930 2011-07-04 11:02:52 <Joric> speaking of brad cohen and freenode http://bramcohen.livejournal.com/72298.html
 931 2011-07-04 11:03:56 <enquirer> i see one direct benefit for btc already - it's better to mine btc and buy wow gold than to run wow bots on your computer
 932 2011-07-04 11:05:13 <Joric> i doubt about the profitability of the latter comparing to the profitability of the former
 933 2011-07-04 11:07:32 <Joric> though i don't know exact numbers on wow gold farming
 934 2011-07-04 11:19:18 _W_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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 936 2011-07-04 11:28:05 <enquirer> an average chinese inmate makes $2.50 a day farming wow gold
 937 2011-07-04 11:29:07 <joepie91> this can't be right: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor?blocked=0&building=0&dispatching=0&finished=0&pkgname=bitcoin&project=home%3Acxd&scheduled=0&signing=0&succeeded=0
 938 2011-07-04 11:31:07 Soak has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 939 2011-07-04 11:31:52 <enquirer> my bot barely makes $0.5 a day, and am lucky i was never banned
 940 2011-07-04 11:35:37 pirrr has joined
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 947 2011-07-04 11:36:25 <Joric> joepie91, after examining the source, i've decided it should be redone from scratch :)
 948 2011-07-04 11:36:27 Speeder has joined
 949 2011-07-04 11:36:41 <joepie91> ...wat
 950 2011-07-04 11:37:50 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r7074dde / src/main/resources/DiabloMiner.cl : Remove dead code that never gets executed - http://bit.ly/mhuj4d
 951 2011-07-04 11:38:45 <erus`> if i wanna receive a payment from a specific user, i create a new address and then check getrecievedbyaddress?
 952 2011-07-04 11:39:10 <erus`> is that gonna get slow when i have thousands of addresses in my wallet?
 953 2011-07-04 11:40:52 <Joric> just make a new wallet then
 954 2011-07-04 11:41:08 m00p has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 955 2011-07-04 11:41:39 <erus`> whats the command for that?
 956 2011-07-04 11:42:06 <Joric> there's none, yet
 957 2011-07-04 11:43:10 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 958 2011-07-04 11:43:15 <erus`> so how do i make a new wallet?
 959 2011-07-04 11:43:58 <Joric> move files, restart
 960 2011-07-04 11:44:16 <erus`> thats a bit hacky
 961 2011-07-04 11:44:31 <erus`> how many addresses before things start slowing down do you recon?
 962 2011-07-04 11:44:42 <erus`> i could set up an address pool and reuse them
 963 2011-07-04 11:44:51 <phantomcircuit> a lot
 964 2011-07-04 11:46:35 <erus`> Id like to know how others are doing it really
 965 2011-07-04 11:46:59 <phantomcircuit> keep a database of address -> user mappings
 966 2011-07-04 11:48:02 <Joric> address, user, balance
 967 2011-07-04 11:48:02 <erus`> phantomcircuit: the thing is you cant delete an address after you create it
 968 2011-07-04 11:48:27 Shattienator has joined
 969 2011-07-04 11:48:31 <erus`> so i have to store old addresses when people delete their account i think
 970 2011-07-04 11:48:33 <phantomcircuit> worry about it when it's a problem
 971 2011-07-04 11:48:56 sacredchao has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 972 2011-07-04 11:48:59 <phantomcircuit> i dont think anybody including mtgox has that problem yet
 973 2011-07-04 11:49:17 <erus`> they must have a pool
 974 2011-07-04 11:49:17 <lfm> erus`: no it wont get slow
 975 2011-07-04 11:49:28 <phantomcircuit> they dont have a pool
 976 2011-07-04 11:49:33 <Joric> computers are fast :)
 977 2011-07-04 11:49:40 <erus`> when you get to thousands of users registering and leaving a day
 978 2011-07-04 11:49:42 <jeremias> depends on the implementation
 979 2011-07-04 11:49:53 <jeremias> a lousy coder can make even the most trivial thing slow
 980 2011-07-04 11:50:04 <lfm> erus`: the wallet doesnt get slow with thousands of addresses in it. I have tested on testnet
 981 2011-07-04 11:50:10 <erus`> well memory isnt infinite
 982 2011-07-04 11:50:23 <erus`> so i would rather not keep creating addresses until it becomes a problem
 983 2011-07-04 11:50:29 <jeremias> if you store bitcoin addresses in database table & use indexing, then it's highly improbable that you will ever run into scaling issues
 984 2011-07-04 11:50:53 <phantomcircuit> erus`, so you expect to be millions of times more successful than mtgox?
 985 2011-07-04 11:50:56 <phantomcircuit> uh huh
 986 2011-07-04 11:51:00 <jeremias> and i guess the official implementation is good
 987 2011-07-04 11:51:04 <phantomcircuit> we'll get right on that
 988 2011-07-04 11:51:11 <phantomcircuit> the official implementation is shit
 989 2011-07-04 11:51:14 <lfm> erus`: addresses are CHEAP. you can easily afford to produce as many as you will ever need and more and you wont notice the cost of storage or speed
 990 2011-07-04 11:51:47 <Joric> what's the real length of those, before base58?
 991 2011-07-04 11:51:47 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 992 2011-07-04 11:51:49 <erus`> ok
 993 2011-07-04 11:52:00 <erus`> just seems wasteful
 994 2011-07-04 11:52:24 Netsniper has joined
 995 2011-07-04 11:52:29 <lfm> erus`: like did you know that bitcoin generates 100 addresses in advance for you without asking? then your wallet backup will still be valid even when you use the next 100 addresses
 996 2011-07-04 11:52:46 eternal1 has joined
 997 2011-07-04 11:53:03 <lfm> erus`: do you know what 1 megabyte of disk space costs?
 998 2011-07-04 11:53:07 <Joric> on the other hand, wxwidgets are not that fast if you use gui
 999 2011-07-04 11:54:11 <phantomcircuit> erus`, it is, but you're almost certainly not going to see number of addresses as the bottle neck
1000 2011-07-04 11:54:17 <lfm> joric compared to what?
1001 2011-07-04 11:54:22 <phantomcircuit> you might however find yourself with something else as the bottleneck
1002 2011-07-04 11:55:07 <erus`> lfm: why spend money on storage that you dont have to though
1003 2011-07-04 11:55:13 <lfm> erus some things are so cheap it is a good idea to use them for minor things like privacy.
1004 2011-07-04 11:55:22 Stellar has quit (Quit: Signed)
1005 2011-07-04 11:55:26 TheZimm has joined
1006 2011-07-04 11:56:31 <lfm> erus if 1 tb cost 100$ (and it is actually less but lets use the round number0 then 1gb is 0.10 dollar and 1 mb is 0.0001 dollar
1007 2011-07-04 11:57:16 <erus`> how big is an address + label?
1008 2011-07-04 11:57:43 <lfm> maybe 1 or two kb
1009 2011-07-04 11:58:37 <erus`> how long should a transaction take (with 1 conf) ?
1010 2011-07-04 11:58:42 <lfm> ie 0.0000001 $ or 0.0000002 $
1011 2011-07-04 11:59:02 <Joric> 20 bytes + label, actually
1012 2011-07-04 11:59:54 <lfm> erus nominally a block (confirmation) shows up every 10 min so on average a txn will be confirmed in 5 min but it is random and sometimes it takes an hour or more for the first confirm
1013 2011-07-04 12:00:34 <lfm> Joric: that is only the public key, there is also the private key
1014 2011-07-04 12:00:34 <btcrowan> Anyone know what's up with: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/  -- it looks like all the data from 2011 is missing
1015 2011-07-04 12:01:15 <Joric> lfm, yeah, it's the whole keypair i don't really know how much it weights
1016 2011-07-04 12:02:01 Stellar has joined
1017 2011-07-04 12:02:09 <erus`> when i recieve a payment into a labels address/account will it also show in account "" ?
1018 2011-07-04 12:02:49 <joepie91> <erus`>so how do i make a new wallet?
1019 2011-07-04 12:02:56 <joepie91> I believe you can start it with a commandline argument
1020 2011-07-04 12:02:58 <joepie91> defining a data directory
1021 2011-07-04 12:03:07 <joepie91> I'm not sure if that goes for just the wallet or also things like the blockchain etc though
1022 2011-07-04 12:03:50 <Joric> blockchain too
1023 2011-07-04 12:04:17 <Joric> there's no separate wallet directory yet
1024 2011-07-04 12:04:17 <erus`> I'll just make a new address for each user then
1025 2011-07-04 12:04:26 <erus`> will make life easier
1026 2011-07-04 12:04:52 diki has joined
1027 2011-07-04 12:06:53 <lfm> ok I just generated 100 addresses with unique 5 char labels and it took 81920 bytes, so thats 819 bytes each
1028 2011-07-04 12:07:19 Beccara has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1029 2011-07-04 12:07:37 Beccara has joined
1030 2011-07-04 12:07:52 <upb> huh, joepie91 still roaming free ÖP
1031 2011-07-04 12:07:54 <upb> ;P
1032 2011-07-04 12:08:25 <joepie91> ...
1033 2011-07-04 12:09:13 <lfm> best if your smart is one wallet per computer
1034 2011-07-04 12:09:27 <erus`> my transaction is showing in block explorer but still no money in the account ...
1035 2011-07-04 12:09:53 <erus`> this might be too slow to be practical
1036 2011-07-04 12:10:02 <lfm> the standard gui wont show it till there is 1 confirmation
1037 2011-07-04 12:10:36 <erus`> im using bitcoind
1038 2011-07-04 12:10:37 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
1039 2011-07-04 12:10:38 <gribble> 134704
1040 2011-07-04 12:11:13 <lfm> erus`: did it miss getting into a block or something? It might take 30 minutes or more to get retryed
1041 2011-07-04 12:11:14 pixglen has joined
1042 2011-07-04 12:11:29 <erus`> lfm: how would i know?
1043 2011-07-04 12:12:02 <lfm> look at the timestamp on the newest block?
1044 2011-07-04 12:14:17 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
1045 2011-07-04 12:14:19 <gribble> 134706
1046 2011-07-04 12:14:49 <lfm> ok well there are 2 new block since we started wondering
1047 2011-07-04 12:15:02 <erus`> mine is in here Block 134703
1048 2011-07-04 12:15:05 <lfm> wundering
1049 2011-07-04 12:15:29 <lfm> oh ok its been there a while then
1050 2011-07-04 12:16:31 <erus`> http://blockexplorer.com/tx/952ac050064270ed8a8b8f7debf4e5925e506d8817bec9190298dfaaa17dfacb#o0 that look ok?
1051 2011-07-04 12:16:45 <erus`> i have double checked the address
1052 2011-07-04 12:17:12 skeledrew1 has quit (Quit: Instantbird 0.3pre)
1053 2011-07-04 12:18:10 <lfm> erus`: ok what block number is your client on that is looking for atht txn?
1054 2011-07-04 12:18:22 skeledrew has joined
1055 2011-07-04 12:18:37 <erus`> how do i find out?
1056 2011-07-04 12:18:57 <lfm> either getinfo or look at the bootom line of the window
1057 2011-07-04 12:19:27 <erus`> "blocks" : 63732,
1058 2011-07-04 12:19:54 <lfm> iiiii, it is way way  out of date,. how many connections?
1059 2011-07-04 12:20:00 <erus`> 8
1060 2011-07-04 12:20:10 <lfm> ok how many blocks now?
1061 2011-07-04 12:20:13 eternal1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1062 2011-07-04 12:20:13 <erus`> slowish internet at the moment
1063 2011-07-04 12:20:33 <erus`> "blocks" : 66355,
1064 2011-07-04 12:20:58 <lfm> ok you need to wait till it gets block 134703 then of course
1065 2011-07-04 12:20:58 <erus`> i guess i have to wait until thats around my block number right?
1066 2011-07-04 12:21:05 <erus`> good
1067 2011-07-04 12:21:22 <erus`> thought my .01 btc was lost in the tubes
1068 2011-07-04 12:21:29 <erus`> i only have .02
1069 2011-07-04 12:21:31 <lfm> yup, it kinda is
1070 2011-07-04 12:21:35 B0g4r7_ has joined
1071 2011-07-04 12:22:02 <erus`> i have mined for hours just for some test money
1072 2011-07-04 12:22:27 nhodges has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1073 2011-07-04 12:22:52 <iz> erus: there is a testnet you can use for testing, where block difficulty is only at like.. 175
1074 2011-07-04 12:23:15 <lfm> Ya, these days its hard to get real bitcoin. you might try testnet for test money, I could give you more testnet btc that you prolly need
1075 2011-07-04 12:23:33 nhodges has joined
1076 2011-07-04 12:23:36 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1077 2011-07-04 12:23:39 <lfm> or look at testnet in a can
1078 2011-07-04 12:23:40 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
1079 2011-07-04 12:23:47 pixglen has quit (Quit: pixglen)
1080 2011-07-04 12:24:43 <erus`> ok cheers
1081 2011-07-04 12:27:25 <lfm> erus ok about that suse status page? it looks like its not  a valid package yet.
1082 2011-07-04 12:28:19 <lfm> prolly cuz bitcoin depends on beta version of wx widgets
1083 2011-07-04 12:28:21 bliket_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1084 2011-07-04 12:29:29 <erus`> im on windows atm...
1085 2011-07-04 12:30:05 <erus`> if internet drops out does bitcoind reconnect?
1086 2011-07-04 12:30:35 pixglen has joined
1087 2011-07-04 12:31:12 <lfm> erus yes it should, you can see the connection count
1088 2011-07-04 12:32:33 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1089 2011-07-04 12:32:35 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134707 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 364 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 2 hours, 39 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1578590.86316805
1090 2011-07-04 12:34:47 seventoe has joined
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1092 2011-07-04 12:39:15 p0s has joined
1093 2011-07-04 12:40:52 <lfm> when I do ;;bc,help its not all there, how do I get the rest?
1094 2011-07-04 12:43:29 <erus`> <amount> is a real and is rounded to 8 decimal places. So 1000000 = 0.01 BTC ?
1095 2011-07-04 12:43:56 <lfm> not a real, it is a integer
1096 2011-07-04 12:44:05 gwillen has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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1100 2011-07-04 12:46:36 <erus`> what is a real? is that a json thing?
1101 2011-07-04 12:47:22 <BlueMatt> its a standard data type
1102 2011-07-04 12:47:28 <lfm> json maybe makes it a real incorrectly
1103 2011-07-04 12:47:30 <BlueMatt> well not of defined bytesize afaik
1104 2011-07-04 12:47:46 <erus`> is it a floating point type?
1105 2011-07-04 12:47:50 <BlueMatt> yea
1106 2011-07-04 12:47:59 <lfm> it should not be a floating point type
1107 2011-07-04 12:48:07 <BlueMatt> a real? yes it is
1108 2011-07-04 12:48:16 vokoda has joined
1109 2011-07-04 12:48:16 <lfm> amount?
1110 2011-07-04 12:48:20 <erus`> ah ok
1111 2011-07-04 12:48:27 <erus`> 0.01 is 0.01 then :)
1112 2011-07-04 12:48:40 kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1113 2011-07-04 12:48:40 <BlueMatt> no, 0.01 has no binary representation
1114 2011-07-04 12:48:49 <lfm> you should never use floats for btc amounts
1115 2011-07-04 12:48:56 <BlueMatt> but rpc makes you
1116 2011-07-04 12:49:12 <lfm> json makes you? not rpc
1117 2011-07-04 12:49:12 <erus`> yeah
1118 2011-07-04 12:49:21 <BlueMatt> sorry, the bitcoin rpc makes you
1119 2011-07-04 12:49:26 <diki> i was wondering..how exactly do you send an rpc command?
1120 2011-07-04 12:49:28 <BlueMatt> not the rpc/json standard
1121 2011-07-04 12:49:37 DukeOfURL has joined
1122 2011-07-04 12:49:37 <diki> is it via a query string or..it's more of a socket level thing?
1123 2011-07-04 12:49:39 <lfm> take it as a char string and convert it to satoshis directly
1124 2011-07-04 12:49:44 <erus`> diki: either connect to the tcp port or do bitcoind <command>
1125 2011-07-04 12:49:46 DukeOfURL has quit (Client Quit)
1126 2011-07-04 12:49:54 <BlueMatt> lfm: but bitcoin doesnt let you...
1127 2011-07-04 12:50:01 <diki> yeah, via port, but how do you pass the command?
1128 2011-07-04 12:50:07 <erus`> string
1129 2011-07-04 12:50:18 <diki> how?
1130 2011-07-04 12:50:36 <lfm> bluematt well bitcoin is wrong then. (and I dont think it is bitcoin that prevents it, it is some stupid socet package)
1131 2011-07-04 12:50:39 <erus`> send the string down the socket
1132 2011-07-04 12:50:50 <diki> and the client responds?
1133 2011-07-04 12:50:58 <lfm> socket
1134 2011-07-04 12:51:05 <erus`> the server responds?
1135 2011-07-04 12:51:05 <BlueMatt> lfm: no, bitcoin could easily represent all money in satoshis, but it currently doesnt
1136 2011-07-04 12:51:12 <BlueMatt> lfm: and I totally agree, it should
1137 2011-07-04 12:51:45 <erus`> what is a satoshi?
1138 2011-07-04 12:51:55 <lfm> bluemat well it is gonna get round off errors then. where is it doing this? in the rpc.cpp module?
1139 2011-07-04 12:51:59 <BlueMatt> erus`: base unit
1140 2011-07-04 12:52:33 <lfm> erus 1 satoshi is 0.00000001 BTC
1141 2011-07-04 12:52:36 <BlueMatt> lfm: yea, but no it doesnt get round off errors as it rounds everything to the 8 decimal places bitcoin supports and that is well within the size of a float
1142 2011-07-04 12:52:43 kudu is now known as IToldYa
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1145 2011-07-04 12:53:07 <lfm> size of a double anyway,
1146 2011-07-04 12:53:25 <BlueMatt> yea
1147 2011-07-04 12:53:29 <erus`> I thought someone said in the future you will be able to divide a bitcoin smaller than 8 decimal places
1148 2011-07-04 12:54:13 <lfm> bluematt and I think there can still be nasty surprizes if the code is not very very carefull
1149 2011-07-04 12:54:20 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1150 2011-07-04 12:54:40 <lfm> erus only theoreticlly, practically it is not divisible smaller
1151 2011-07-04 12:54:48 <BlueMatt> lfm: oh, I know, but currently it is careful enough that it is not currently a problem
1152 2011-07-04 12:55:02 <BlueMatt> however, yea, we should not continue to use floats if we have a major change elsewhere
1153 2011-07-04 12:55:14  has joined
1154 2011-07-04 12:55:40 <erus`> BlueMatt usings some bignum type datatype instead?
1155 2011-07-04 12:55:47 <lfm> sigh. it is also a bad example for other people too, they'll think they can do it when they dont know how to be careful enuf
1156 2011-07-04 12:56:02 <BlueMatt> lfm: absolutely
1157 2011-07-04 12:56:08 <BlueMatt> erus`: no, a whole number
1158 2011-07-04 12:56:11 <lfm> erus 64 bit ints are fine
1159 2011-07-04 12:56:15 <BlueMatt> an int64
1160 2011-07-04 12:56:53 <Diablo-D3> wtf
1161 2011-07-04 12:57:02 <erus`> i keep forgetting there well only ever be a finite number of bitcoins in existence
1162 2011-07-04 12:57:13 <b4epoche_> Diablo-D3:  nice intro
1163 2011-07-04 12:57:23 <lfm> erus yup, 21 million btc
1164 2011-07-04 12:57:31 vrs_ is now known as vrs
1165 2011-07-04 12:57:35 vrs has quit (Changing host)
1166 2011-07-04 12:57:35 vrs has joined
1167 2011-07-04 12:57:36 <Diablo-D3> I delete code that equates to zero
1168 2011-07-04 12:57:39 <lfm> less a few cents
1169 2011-07-04 12:57:42 <Diablo-D3> it no longer works right
1170 2011-07-04 12:57:56 Netsniper has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1171 2011-07-04 12:57:58 <Joric> i totally missed the point where "Bitcoins are divisible to 8 decimal places. We are very proud of this fact" had become "fuck you! you should not use more than two, all after that is a dust spam"
1172 2011-07-04 12:58:22 <Diablo-D3> Joric: lol
1173 2011-07-04 12:58:30 <Diablo-D3> someone fails at deflationary code
1174 2011-07-04 12:59:17 <lfm> joric you like dust spam or ???
1175 2011-07-04 12:59:25 <b4epoche_> Diablo-D3:  you writing house-of-cards code?
1176 2011-07-04 13:00:41 <Diablo-D3> er
1177 2011-07-04 13:00:45 <Diablo-D3> someone fails at deflationary currency
1178 2011-07-04 13:00:46 <Diablo-D3> also
1179 2011-07-04 13:00:49 <Diablo-D3> (Zrotr(0x00000000U, 25) ^ Zrotr(0x00000000U, 14) ^ ((0x00000000U) >> 3U))
1180 2011-07-04 13:00:52 <Diablo-D3> is this not 0?
1181 2011-07-04 13:02:38 Kudu is now known as kudu
1182 2011-07-04 13:02:39 <lfm> whats Zrotr?
1183 2011-07-04 13:03:18 <mu-b> hmmm, if the shift is logical and not arthimetic, then that should be zero i think :)
1184 2011-07-04 13:03:48 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
1185 2011-07-04 13:03:49 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 days, 14 hours, 43 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> shLONG: you're probably passing "0.0" instead of float("0.0") to your JSON library.
1186 2011-07-04 13:03:55 <lfm> I never seen a rotate turn a zero word into a non zero word
1187 2011-07-04 13:04:29 <b4epoche_> is there any way to 'private message' someone on the forums?
1188 2011-07-04 13:04:41 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1189 2011-07-04 13:04:42 <lfm> ya
1190 2011-07-04 13:04:52 <b4epoche_> or does anyone know how to contact "udibr"
1191 2011-07-04 13:05:09 <Diablo-D3> mu-b: if its arthimetic is STILL ZERO
1192 2011-07-04 13:05:14 <BlueMatt> yea, click their name, and find the private message button
1193 2011-07-04 13:05:30 <Diablo-D3> 0 rotated in any direction with any method is still 0.
1194 2011-07-04 13:05:37 <b4epoche_> well, I suppose it would help if I were actually logged in on the forums
1195 2011-07-04 13:08:47 <lfm> Diablo-D3: you might find a use for such code by carefully timeing it you could tell which particular model of some CPU line you are on by how the hardware optimizes it?
1196 2011-07-04 13:09:38 <Diablo-D3> lfm: its a gpu, not a cpu.
1197 2011-07-04 13:09:57 <Diablo-D3> okay so Im going about.... 378.
1198 2011-07-04 13:10:08 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  it's that second part "find the private message button" that seems to be the problem (even when logged in).  Maybe because I'm a "Brand new" user.
1199 2011-07-04 13:10:10 <Diablo-D3> it got very tiny little faster with hand chopping dead code out
1200 2011-07-04 13:10:54 <Diablo-D3> to get any more optimum, I'd have to draw fucking bits out
1201 2011-07-04 13:11:17 <Diablo-D3> like, little fucking graphs and shit
1202 2011-07-04 13:11:29 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: I always see "Send this member a personal message." though I think users can turn it off for themselves if they want
1203 2011-07-04 13:11:29 <lfm> b4epoche_ ya, thats probably it. you are too new to write private messages
1204 2011-07-04 13:11:59 <BlueMatt> really, new users cant pm, thats shit
1205 2011-07-04 13:12:08 <Diablo-D3> either that, or start removing instructions and see which ones it doenst actually need
1206 2011-07-04 13:12:11 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1207 2011-07-04 13:12:25 <BlueMatt> spamers wont spam by pm, they do it by posts-more views that way
1208 2011-07-04 13:12:32 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  I can see that...
1209 2011-07-04 13:12:42 <Joric> BlueMatt, are you sure number of rounds should depend of cpu power? what if the wallet would be transferred on a pocket pc? keepass uses fixed 6000 rounds.
1210 2011-07-04 13:12:58 bittwist has joined
1211 2011-07-04 13:13:24 <lfm> b4epoche_ when I went to user udibr 's page I found the button to "Send this member a personal message."
1212 2011-07-04 13:13:33 <BlueMatt> Joric: it would still work on a pocket pc, it would just take a second or two, I mean .1 seconds on high end hardware would still only be something like 2-3 seconds on really slow hardware
1213 2011-07-04 13:14:19 <b4epoche_> so, with no pm on forums, does anyone know how to contact "udibr"?
1214 2011-07-04 13:14:34 <b4epoche_> lfm:  yea, I don't see that:  http://snapplr.com/xs9w
1215 2011-07-04 13:14:38 <erus`> can bitcoind handle concurrent requests?
1216 2011-07-04 13:14:40 <BlueMatt> <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  I can see that... <- why cant you pm if you can see that?
1217 2011-07-04 13:14:42 <lfm> b4epoche I found button to send him private message
1218 2011-07-04 13:14:54 <BlueMatt> oh cant...
1219 2011-07-04 13:15:18 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  no, I was saying that "I can see" why n00bs can't pm
1220 2011-07-04 13:15:19 Glasswlkr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1221 2011-07-04 13:15:31 <BlueMatt> hm, disagree, but ok
1222 2011-07-04 13:15:32 <lfm> b4epoche_ http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?action=profile;u=4443
1223 2011-07-04 13:15:37 <wardearia> ;;seen cdecker
1224 2011-07-04 13:15:38 <gribble> cdecker was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 days, 17 hours, 1 minute, and 53 seconds ago: <cdecker> See you ^^
1225 2011-07-04 13:15:39 <b4epoche_> unfortunate choice of words ;-)
1226 2011-07-04 13:15:57 <wardearia> ;;later tell cdecker #BCBot is joining and parting #bitcoin-unreg every 60 seconds
1227 2011-07-04 13:15:58 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1228 2011-07-04 13:16:02 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: the link work: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=4443
1229 2011-07-04 13:16:07 <BlueMatt> ?
1230 2011-07-04 13:16:08 <wardearia> durr, -#
1231 2011-07-04 13:16:29 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt:  http://snapplr.com/m76m
1232 2011-07-04 13:16:41 <BlueMatt> nope, ok
1233 2011-07-04 13:16:44 <BlueMatt> then you need to post more ;)
1234 2011-07-04 13:17:05 <b4epoche_> hmm...  isn't too much posting part of the problem?
1235 2011-07-04 13:17:08 <lfm> b4epoche_ oh ok, I see you snap, ya the button is not there, you must be too new
1236 2011-07-04 13:17:50 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
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1244 2011-07-04 13:25:29 Cherothald has joined
1245 2011-07-04 13:27:21 <riush> is the wallet dump format (showwallet branch) fixed now, or might it still change?
1246 2011-07-04 13:27:28 <Joric> BlueMatt, did you notice wxGetPasswordFromUser doesnt pay attention to what was pressed - ok, cancel or close? =) i'd use wxTextEntryDialog(parent, message, caption, defaultValue,
1247 2011-07-04 13:27:29 <Joric>                                wxOK | wxCANCEL | wxTE_PASSWORD)
1248 2011-07-04 13:28:05 <BlueMatt> well if you hit cancel, it returns empty string, and it can just tell you to enter something next time
1249 2011-07-04 13:28:09 <BlueMatt> (like it does now)
1250 2011-07-04 13:28:50 <Joric> not nice!
1251 2011-07-04 13:29:26 <BlueMatt> meh, it works
1252 2011-07-04 13:31:10 <lfm> does it return empty string even if there IS a password entered?
1253 2011-07-04 13:31:19 <erus`> what if my password is "" ?
1254 2011-07-04 13:31:20 <BlueMatt> yes
1255 2011-07-04 13:31:27 <BlueMatt> erus`: then it tells you to fuck off
1256 2011-07-04 13:31:32 <erus`> lol
1257 2011-07-04 13:31:39 <lfm> erus you deserve what you get then
1258 2011-07-04 13:31:49 <erus`>     "blocks" : 124026,
1259 2011-07-04 13:31:53 <erus`> nearly there :O
1260 2011-07-04 13:32:07 <BlueMatt> erus`: then it posts your wallet on the forum and informs people that you are a dumbass ;)
1261 2011-07-04 13:32:09 <Joric> lfm, this is not the point, pressing cancel you should expect cancel )
1262 2011-07-04 13:32:53 <erus`> jokes on them it was the stolen mtgox account
1263 2011-07-04 13:33:09 <lfm> Joric: ya, theoreticlly Id agree but I think to conform to "bitcoin sytle and practices guide" you would need to take BlueMatt's side
1264 2011-07-04 13:33:25 <BlueMatt> lfm: ???
1265 2011-07-04 13:33:46 <lfm> Im saying there are much worse things in htere to worry about
1266 2011-07-04 13:33:55 <Joric> lfm, it should just close the dialog, without nagging
1267 2011-07-04 13:34:10 <BlueMatt> actually, it checks size too late, let me got change that
1268 2011-07-04 13:34:32 <Joric> now it spawns additional dialog 'are you sure to encrypt your wallet'? in ALL cases
1269 2011-07-04 13:34:39 <BlueMatt> yep, thats wrong
1270 2011-07-04 13:37:17 jav__ has joined
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1272 2011-07-04 13:38:48 jav__ has joined
1273 2011-07-04 13:42:24 <erus`> is anyone charging tx fee yet?
1274 2011-07-04 13:43:40 <Joric> probably no merchants transfer less than 0.01 currently
1275 2011-07-04 13:44:41 <Joric> though i didn't try that with mybitcoin
1276 2011-07-04 13:45:50 <lfm> erus depends what you're doing. I think Luke-jr's pool will only mine with txn with a fee
1277 2011-07-04 13:46:11 <BlueMatt> Joric: well, Ill fix that, but wxTextEntryDialog becomes a pain as it needs parent...its not a big problem anyway, if you want to code it Ill push it, but its not worth the time
1278 2011-07-04 13:46:12 <lfm> He only generates a few blocks a day thos it seems
1279 2011-07-04 13:46:36 pixglen has quit (Quit: pixglen)
1280 2011-07-04 13:47:49 <Joric> BlueMatt, are you getting paid there? i'd go fulltime )
1281 2011-07-04 13:48:01 <BlueMatt> Im getting paid for this?
1282 2011-07-04 13:48:03 <BlueMatt> since when?
1283 2011-07-04 13:50:16 mmoya has joined
1284 2011-07-04 13:50:40 <erus`> rpc commands are taking ages to complete :(
1285 2011-07-04 13:50:57 <lfm> Bluematt you going to that CIA conference, get them to hire you to do bitcoin stuff! grin
1286 2011-07-04 13:51:14 <BlueMatt> what cia conference?
1287 2011-07-04 13:51:17 <lfm> Oh ya it was Gavin goin gthere
1288 2011-07-04 13:51:21 <BlueMatt> gavin gave a presentation there very briefly
1289 2011-07-04 13:51:26 <BlueMatt> quite a while ago
1290 2011-07-04 13:51:38 <gavinandresen> ages and weeks ago....
1291 2011-07-04 13:51:50 <BlueMatt> wait, when did you get on?
1292 2011-07-04 13:51:51 <lfm> I thot there was a bigger one comming up
1293 2011-07-04 13:52:04 <Joric> they only pay for CIA patches
1294 2011-07-04 13:52:09 <enquirer> i provide assassination services for btc
1295 2011-07-04 13:52:28 <lfm> enquirer: oh cool, hows buisness?
1296 2011-07-04 13:53:07 <gavinandresen> Can somebody sanity-check my no-commas pull request?  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/379
1297 2011-07-04 13:53:32 <enquirer> that's advert in case cia reads this thread
1298 2011-07-04 13:53:33 <Joric> haha poor Germans
1299 2011-07-04 13:54:06 <Joric> along with russians though
1300 2011-07-04 13:54:51 <lfm> isnt there localization for commas and decimal points?
1301 2011-07-04 13:54:54 <jtaylor> btc does not use test driven development? this seems like a perfect case where it would be better than manual review
1302 2011-07-04 13:55:09 AnonX has joined
1303 2011-07-04 13:55:47 <erus`> jtaylor: they wanna use tests but they need to be written first
1304 2011-07-04 13:55:58 <Joric> don't know for germans, i never ever use a comma and localized excel drives me crazy
1305 2011-07-04 13:55:59 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: jwsample * r120 /branches/keystore: Branch for key store interface
1306 2011-07-04 13:56:01 <erus`> there was an issue ticket
1307 2011-07-04 13:57:02 <apr> anyone here got any info about pushpool?
1308 2011-07-04 13:57:34 <apr> what does the upstrearesult and ourresult field mean in the share table? when is upstreamresult set to anything ? (currently it seems to be empty regardless of ourresult)
1309 2011-07-04 13:57:40 <jtaylor> erus`: that does not seem very hard in this case, or is there no test runner in place?
1310 2011-07-04 13:57:57 darbsllim has joined
1311 2011-07-04 13:58:13 <erus`> i dunno. search on github there was a ticket and a few devs commented on it
1312 2011-07-04 13:58:19 <gavinandresen> jtaylor: there's a test framework in place, although there's also a pull to improve it....
1313 2011-07-04 13:59:24 <lfm> gavinandresen  isnt there localization for commas and decimal points?
1314 2011-07-04 13:59:31 <jtaylor> urg boost unit test, I don't like that one
1315 2011-07-04 14:00:22 <gavinandresen> lfm: yup.  I did the simplest possible thing that can work, which is : decimal point is .   And no commas.
1316 2011-07-04 14:00:22 Burgundy has joined
1317 2011-07-04 14:00:56 <lfm> ie ignore localizeation, might work I guess
1318 2011-07-04 14:01:22 <gavinandresen> lfm: to do it "right" means do all the localization stuff and then write new dialog boxes that parrot back the amount you're sending, just in case you have your locale setup wrong
1319 2011-07-04 14:01:38 <Joric> gavinandresen, you just removed thousands separators, that's it? how about further localization
1320 2011-07-04 14:01:44 <gavinandresen> lfm: ... and that's way too much work for too little gain.
1321 2011-07-04 14:01:46 <erus`> will bitcoind stop using so much cpu when it catches up with the block head?
1322 2011-07-04 14:01:54 <lfm> ya, Ive never actually tried it, just heard about it
1323 2011-07-04 14:02:33 <gavinandresen> Joric:  knock yourself out, but the whole "enter how many bitcoins" UI is changing anyway.
1324 2011-07-04 14:02:46 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: it is?
1325 2011-07-04 14:02:49 <BlueMatt> or do you mean qt?
1326 2011-07-04 14:02:54 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I mean qt
1327 2011-07-04 14:02:57 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
1328 2011-07-04 14:02:58 <erus`> ugh qt
1329 2011-07-04 14:03:05 <erus`> why you no like wx?
1330 2011-07-04 14:03:20 <gavinandresen> (and the whole "Send 11 millicoins" instead of "send 0.011 BTC")
1331 2011-07-04 14:03:21 <BlueMatt> because we have like one person even willing to touch it
1332 2011-07-04 14:03:25 <Joric> i'd love having the fee settings page in 0.4 along with wallet encryption
1333 2011-07-04 14:03:38 <BlueMatt> what fee settings page?
1334 2011-07-04 14:04:06 <gavinandresen> When we see lots of people working on, and progress on, the qt GUI and NO progress on the wx GUI, that's an easy decision.
1335 2011-07-04 14:04:07 common-lisp has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1337 2011-07-04 14:04:59 <lfm> plus all the build problems with wx
1338 2011-07-04 14:05:27 <BlueMatt> well thats just because we used a development release instead of a stable one
1339 2011-07-04 14:05:32 <BlueMatt> why satoshi did that I have no clue
1340 2011-07-04 14:05:43 common-lisp has quit (Client Quit)
1341 2011-07-04 14:05:55 <Joric> http://i53.tinypic.com/2dj2flk.png
1342 2011-07-04 14:06:01 <lfm> bluematt it was something to do with char set support ofr the other language support
1343 2011-07-04 14:06:03 <Joric> 'transaction fees'
1344 2011-07-04 14:06:03 common-lisp has joined
1345 2011-07-04 14:06:13 <Joric> from http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10923.0
1346 2011-07-04 14:06:44 <BlueMatt> Joric: well I never bothered to update that to CWallet, someone did, its a pull req on my repo, but imo that is a bad change anyway
1347 2011-07-04 14:06:52 common-lisp has quit (Client Quit)
1348 2011-07-04 14:07:06 <BlueMatt> Joric: mostly from the point of "users can send txes that will never be confirmed or relayed" pov
1349 2011-07-04 14:07:13 common-lisp has joined
1350 2011-07-04 14:07:29 <BlueMatt> though the clearer messages is probably better
1351 2011-07-04 14:09:23 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1358 2011-07-04 14:13:22 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: that patch seems fine to me...
1359 2011-07-04 14:13:30 <Joric> gavinandresen, how's the whole architecture btw is there a strict ui<->core separation?
1360 2011-07-04 14:13:33 <BlueMatt> but dont take that as meaning anything
1361 2011-07-04 14:14:06 marvin__ has joined
1362 2011-07-04 14:14:10 <marvin__> ;;bc,estimate
1363 2011-07-04 14:14:10 <gribble> 1586263.64353264
1364 2011-07-04 14:14:11  is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-252-2-183.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
1365 2011-07-04 14:15:22 <gavinandresen> Joric: internal architecture is a mess, but the plan is to incrementally clean it up (sipa's CWallet is a first step)
1366 2011-07-04 14:16:15 <marvin__> ;;bc,estimate
1367 2011-07-04 14:16:16 <gribble> 1586263.64353264
1368 2011-07-04 14:19:40 <Joric> marvin__, why twice?
1369 2011-07-04 14:20:16 Teslah has joined
1370 2011-07-04 14:23:30 <Joric> btw it's getting tougher
1371 2011-07-04 14:23:39 <Joric> c97e476877c7c7ffb56240be6ee0f0844f77df973dba8cab434c1d5524e03a45 06.23.11 01:55:08 never forget
1372 2011-07-04 14:23:44 <Joric> 4,124,050 shares
1373 2011-07-04 14:24:00 <Joric> doucheblocks
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1377 2011-07-04 14:28:59 <Joric> upnp setting grayed out in 0.3.24rc1
1378 2011-07-04 14:29:12 <Joric> not sure why
1379 2011-07-04 14:29:24 gjs278 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1380 2011-07-04 14:29:30 jav__ has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
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1383 2011-07-04 14:30:51 <BlueMatt> Joric: the built one?
1384 2011-07-04 14:31:35 <Joric> the official one
1385 2011-07-04 14:31:42 <BlueMatt> oh god wtf...
1386 2011-07-04 14:31:44 <BlueMatt> win32 or linux?
1387 2011-07-04 14:31:47 <b4epoche_> Joric:  it's pretty decoupled UI/Core
1388 2011-07-04 14:31:48 <Joric> win32
1389 2011-07-04 14:31:59 <BlueMatt> alright, Ill make sure its fixed in the next one
1390 2011-07-04 14:32:13 <zapnap> looks like my endian fixes for mac in pushpool don't work quite right :( compiles but i think the byte ordering is still wrong. getting garbled parameters.
1391 2011-07-04 14:32:37 <zapnap> cpuminer seems to have the same issue? anyone have any luck / experience with this?
1392 2011-07-04 14:33:46 marvin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1393 2011-07-04 14:34:10 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: couple things: you broke mingw makefile with unit test (you forgot to link boost_unit_test_framework) also, why is test_bitcoin not test_bitcoin.exe?
1394 2011-07-04 14:34:39 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: 'cause I'm an idiot.
1395 2011-07-04 14:34:46 TheAncientGoat has joined
1396 2011-07-04 14:34:46 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * rc08c11c / src/main/resources/DiabloMiner.cl : Removed more dead code - http://bit.ly/lOwy2E
1397 2011-07-04 14:35:06 <gavinandresen> (and I don't have a mingw-cross-compile environment setup)
1398 2011-07-04 14:36:02 <Joric> i'm rebuilding rc1 with USE_UPNP:=1 added in the beginning not sure it'll help
1399 2011-07-04 14:36:04 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: ah, ok well you just need -lboost_unit_test_framework-mgw45-mt-s-1_43 and test_bitcoin->test_bitcoin.exe
1400 2011-07-04 14:36:49 seventoe is now known as seventoes
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1402 2011-07-04 14:37:17 <Joric> it actually helped, upnp is not grayed out anymore
1403 2011-07-04 14:37:39 <BlueMatt> Joric: yea, the makefile mustve been messed up, Ill investigate more before I build again
1404 2011-07-04 14:37:58 Glasswlkr has joined
1405 2011-07-04 14:38:54 <Joric> care to add total number of blocks as here? http://pastebin.com/ESurLrrL :) i just love it
1406 2011-07-04 14:39:34 <BlueMatt> problem is any bad node can mess with you then
1407 2011-07-04 14:39:44 <Joric> yeah, not very safe as is
1408 2011-07-04 14:40:02 <BlueMatt> its not high on the priority list, and would need redone before it could be merged
1409 2011-07-04 14:42:25 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
1410 2011-07-04 14:42:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134731 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 340 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 22 hours, 56 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1586057.70213134
1411 2011-07-04 14:42:49 AAA_awright_ has joined
1412 2011-07-04 14:45:46 <erus`> my money has gone in
1413 2011-07-04 14:45:56 <erus`> only took a few hours :D
1414 2011-07-04 14:46:50 <Joric> erus`, did you try different merchant services? which one is the best?
1415 2011-07-04 14:46:57 <erus`> is the bitcoin gui just a wrapper over bitcoind?
1416 2011-07-04 14:47:09 <erus`> Joric: no im writing my own
1417 2011-07-04 14:47:28 <Joric> erus`, it's linked, not using rpc
1418 2011-07-04 14:48:41 <erus`> does bitcoin.exe start bitcoind or just copy the code from bitcoind?
1419 2011-07-04 14:49:14 wardearia has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1420 2011-07-04 14:49:33 jandd_ has joined
1421 2011-07-04 14:49:35 <Joric> they work independently, bitcoin.exe is just oversized bitcoind
1422 2011-07-04 14:50:58 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1423 2011-07-04 14:51:06 i2pn00b has joined
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1427 2011-07-04 14:52:03 Blitzboom has joined
1428 2011-07-04 14:52:56 <BlueMatt> ;;seen jgarzik
1429 2011-07-04 14:52:57 <gribble> jgarzik was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 9 hours, 45 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <jgarzik> doublec: poke BlueMatt tomorrow, or file an issue on github.  We'll take care of it, one way or another.
1430 2011-07-04 14:54:07 <erus`> move <fromaccount> <toaccount> <amount> [minconf=1] [comment]
1431 2011-07-04 14:54:13 <erus`> what format is comment in here?
1432 2011-07-04 14:56:07 pixglen has quit (Quit: pixglen)
1433 2011-07-04 14:57:22 MartianW has joined
1434 2011-07-04 14:57:30 <apr> guys, how many shares can i expect to mine on "testnet" before hitting a block ?
1435 2011-07-04 14:57:43 MartianW has quit (Client Quit)
1436 2011-07-04 14:58:03 molecular has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1437 2011-07-04 14:59:06 etneg has joined
1438 2011-07-04 14:59:07 <Joric> apr, http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/q/getdifficulty
1439 2011-07-04 14:59:08 <etneg> hi
1440 2011-07-04 14:59:15 <etneg> just trying to understand bitcoin transanctions
1441 2011-07-04 14:59:19 <etneg> so when a new transaction takes place, it is broadcast to the entire network and then anyone who wants can try to construct a block incorporating the new transactions? and whoever is first at generating a valid block and broadcasting it is rewarded with a certain number of new bitcoins?
1442 2011-07-04 14:59:45 <Joric> more specifically, http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/q/hashestowin
1443 2011-07-04 14:59:56 <Joric> more precisely, hashestowin / 2^32
1444 2011-07-04 15:00:00 <nanotube> etneg: yes
1445 2011-07-04 15:00:02 <etneg> was tha for me?
1446 2011-07-04 15:00:16 <Joric> nanotube, does gribble have testnet stats?
1447 2011-07-04 15:00:23 <etneg> nanotube: sweet
1448 2011-07-04 15:00:29 <nanotube> Joric: no
1449 2011-07-04 15:01:02 <etneg> i think im missig some subtle details here
1450 2011-07-04 15:01:12 <etneg> is there anything else besides say transanction fees, etc?
1451 2011-07-04 15:01:22 Katapult_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1452 2011-07-04 15:01:52 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: are you planning on "Do not use comma as thousands separator" for 0.3.24?
1453 2011-07-04 15:01:55 <apr> Joric: am I right in reading that, as "on average" (very loose) 500 shares of difficulty 1?
1454 2011-07-04 15:02:11 <nanotube> etneg: there are transaction fees, and block bounty, to reward the block creator.
1455 2011-07-04 15:02:22 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I think it is critical enough (and safe enough) that it should be in 0.3.24.
1456 2011-07-04 15:02:23 Katapult has joined
1457 2011-07-04 15:02:36 <nanotube> then what doyou use as thousands separator?
1458 2011-07-04 15:02:44 <nanotube> space maybe
1459 2011-07-04 15:02:46 <BlueMatt> nanotube: you dont
1460 2011-07-04 15:02:47 <nanotube> ?
1461 2011-07-04 15:02:50 <nanotube> ah
1462 2011-07-04 15:02:51 <nanotube> heh
1463 2011-07-04 15:03:47 copumpkin has joined
1464 2011-07-04 15:03:53 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: yep sounds good...Im trying to finalize what version of ubuntu I can use to build on, then Ill send in a pull to include all the gitian cross-compile stuff and then Id say we're ready for a 0.3.24rc2 (and probably final) tag
1465 2011-07-04 15:03:56 <Joric> 1 share is 2^32 hashes average, hashestowin is difficulty * 2^32
1466 2011-07-04 15:04:40 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1467 2011-07-04 15:04:53 <Joric> with difficulty 1 you'll have to submit only 1 share, am i right?
1468 2011-07-04 15:05:10 <erus`> what happens if i send to an address that doesnt exist?
1469 2011-07-04 15:05:47 <nanotube> Joric: yes, a "share" is a difficulty-1 block.
1470 2011-07-04 15:06:05 <Joric> well, it's not 'average' actually it's the worst case :) average is probably 2^32/2
1471 2011-07-04 15:06:07 <nanotube> erus`: if the address doesn't pass checksum, it'll be rejected by your client. if it does pass checksum, you lose those bitcoins forever.
1472 2011-07-04 15:06:46 Incitatus has joined
1473 2011-07-04 15:07:32 <erus`> eventually all bitcoins will be lost
1474 2011-07-04 15:07:45 <gavinandresen> eventually the universe will cease to exist.
1475 2011-07-04 15:08:33 <phungus> yes, when Bitcoin 2.0 is released
1476 2011-07-04 15:08:49 <phungus> that will be the culmination of all things
1477 2011-07-04 15:09:11 <Joric> eventually i don't like the thing with fees and the dust spam looks like it needs some central regulation
1478 2011-07-04 15:09:24 * nanotube hides in the nearest black hole to wait out the big crunch.
1479 2011-07-04 15:09:30 <nanotube> hehe
1480 2011-07-04 15:09:34 <erus`> dust spam?
1481 2011-07-04 15:11:14 pyro_ has joined
1482 2011-07-04 15:11:27 <Joric> erus`, it's was like "did you know bitcoins are divisible to 8 decimal places? forget about it!"
1483 2011-07-04 15:11:54 <justmoon> fuggeddabboutit!
1484 2011-07-04 15:12:01 <justmoon> but I totally agree
1485 2011-07-04 15:12:08 <justmoon> fees should be set by the market
1486 2011-07-04 15:12:37 marvin_ has joined
1487 2011-07-04 15:13:08 <marvin_> ::bc.calc 1000
1488 2011-07-04 15:13:14 <marvin_> ;;bc,calc 1000
1489 2011-07-04 15:13:15 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 187 years, 43 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours, 38 minutes, and 44 seconds
1490 2011-07-04 15:13:26 <marvin_> ;;bc,calc 6000
1491 2011-07-04 15:13:27 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 31 years, 15 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 16 minutes, and 27 seconds
1492 2011-07-04 15:13:40 <marvin_> ;;bc,calc 6000000
1493 2011-07-04 15:13:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 6000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 1 week, 4 days, 10 hours, 14 minutes, and 46 seconds
1494 2011-07-04 15:16:05 <erus`> if my transaction isnt showing on block exploere is that bad news?
1495 2011-07-04 15:16:45 <nanotube> erus`: it will show up once it makes it into a block
1496 2011-07-04 15:16:52 talpan has left ("Verlassend")
1497 2011-07-04 15:17:04 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1498 2011-07-04 15:17:23 <Joric> erus`, check if it's here http://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
1499 2011-07-04 15:17:25 <justmoon> nanotube: plus a minute or so after that, because block explorer doesn't update instantly iirc
1500 2011-07-04 15:17:38 <neofutur> erus`: you can also watch transactions on #bitcoin-watch
1501 2011-07-04 15:17:47 <neofutur>  /lastlog yourbtcadress
1502 2011-07-04 15:17:49 <nanotube> justmoon: heh well yea
1503 2011-07-04 15:17:56 <neofutur> often faste'r than blockexplorer
1504 2011-07-04 15:18:08 <marvin_> ::bc,estimate
1505 2011-07-04 15:18:14 <marvin_> ;;bc,estimate
1506 2011-07-04 15:18:14 <gribble> 1586057.70213134
1507 2011-07-04 15:18:26 <erus`> ;;bc,stats
1508 2011-07-04 15:18:29 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134731 | Current Difficulty: 1379223.4296725 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 340 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 2 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1586057.70213134
1509 2011-07-04 15:18:42 <erus`> im on the current block :|
1510 2011-07-04 15:18:52 <Joric> btw mybitcoin.com accepts payments instantly i don't know how does it do that
1511 2011-07-04 15:19:00 <marvin_> Wow, I thought difficulty changed every 2 weeks
1512 2011-07-04 15:19:12 <Joric> probably it accepts 'unverified' e.g. self-verified transactions
1513 2011-07-04 15:19:26 <marvin_> If difficulty changes tomorrow, that'll be only about 9 days since the last change in difficulty
1514 2011-07-04 15:20:09 <Joric> erus`, are you sure you want your customers to wait for 10 minutes? =)
1515 2011-07-04 15:20:10 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
1516 2011-07-04 15:20:27 <etneg> nanotube: gotcha
1517 2011-07-04 15:20:30 <erus`> Joric i will operate like a bank
1518 2011-07-04 15:20:39 <erus`> holding money until you want to spend it instantly
1519 2011-07-04 15:20:52 <erus`> but i cant even get my send payments working
1520 2011-07-04 15:20:58 <erus`> im losing them in the void
1521 2011-07-04 15:21:03 <Joric> the problem still remains
1522 2011-07-04 15:21:23 <nanotube> marvin_: difficulty changes every 2016 blocks.
1523 2011-07-04 15:21:27 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1524 2011-07-04 15:21:44 <nanotube> marvin_: which can be slower or faster than 2 weeks, depending on whether hashing power is increasing or decreasing.
1525 2011-07-04 15:22:46 <marvin_> @nanotube:  I'm trying to find the forumula for calcuating that, based on nethash power
1526 2011-07-04 15:22:54 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Chris Howie * r2539bd2d919e mining-proxy/htdocs/common.inc.php: Use HTTP_HOST instead of SERVER_NAME http://tinyurl.com/6z8yjys
1527 2011-07-04 15:23:04 <nanotube> marvin_: formula for calculating what?
1528 2011-07-04 15:23:14 <nanotube> marvin_: time to next difficulty change?
1529 2011-07-04 15:23:28 Guest21467 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1530 2011-07-04 15:23:33 <marvin_> @nanotube:  estimates for next difficulty level and time to next difficulty
1531 2011-07-04 15:23:35 <erus`> i made a new address with bitcoind newaddress accountname
1532 2011-07-04 15:23:48 <nanotube> marvin_: well, basically, you look at average time between last X blocks
1533 2011-07-04 15:23:49 <erus`> i did bitcoind getaddress accountname
1534 2011-07-04 15:23:53 <nanotube> marvin_: and extrapolate to the future. :)
1535 2011-07-04 15:23:54 <erus`> then sent to that address
1536 2011-07-04 15:23:55 <marvin_> @nanotube:  and more generally, if hash power is running too fast or slow
1537 2011-07-04 15:23:56 datagutt has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1538 2011-07-04 15:24:08 <nanotube> ;;bc,interval 100
1539 2011-07-04 15:24:09 <gribble> 512
1540 2011-07-04 15:24:17 <nanotube> marvin_: ^ that's average interval between blocks for the last 100
1541 2011-07-04 15:24:25 <nanotube> target time is 10 minutes per block, or 600 seconds
1542 2011-07-04 15:24:28 <nanotube> we're running fast
1543 2011-07-04 15:24:39 <nanotube> ;;calc 600/512
1544 2011-07-04 15:24:40 <gribble> 600 / 512 = 1.171875
1545 2011-07-04 15:24:41 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1546 2011-07-04 15:24:45 flykoko has joined
1547 2011-07-04 15:24:46 <nanotube> so we're about 17percent too fast
1548 2011-07-04 15:24:46 <marvin_> Isn't there a simple way to calculate that based on nethash?
1549 2011-07-04 15:24:58 <nanotube> marvin_: nethash is derived from that
1550 2011-07-04 15:25:06 <marvin_> 17% is better than the last round when we jumped up 50% in difficulty
1551 2011-07-04 15:25:12 <nanotube> ;;bc,diffchange
1552 2011-07-04 15:25:13 <gribble> 14.9964297306 % estimated difficulty change this period
1553 2011-07-04 15:25:16 <marvin_> ah, I see re: nethash
1554 2011-07-04 15:25:26 <nanotube> about 15% estimated diff change
1555 2011-07-04 15:25:37 <marvin_> 15% is fine with me
1556 2011-07-04 15:25:40 <nanotube> (the disparity is because diff change is not based on only 100 last blocks)
1557 2011-07-04 15:25:58 <marvin_> That's a huge decrease in diff change over the last few diff changes
1558 2011-07-04 15:26:04 <marvin_> Can gribble list the last X diff changes?
1559 2011-07-04 15:26:10 james has joined
1560 2011-07-04 15:26:38 <gmaxwell> 03:39 < lfm> Joric: I dont get it? just set the numvber of rounds to be suitable for the slowest machine. if that isnt enuf security then its just wrong
1561 2011-07-04 15:26:45 james is now known as Guest35567
1562 2011-07-04 15:26:46 <nanotube> marvin_: no, gribble doesn't have historica data like that
1563 2011-07-04 15:27:04 Guest35567 is now known as topace_
1564 2011-07-04 15:27:06 <marvin_> kk
1565 2011-07-04 15:27:16 <nanotube> marvin_: you can look it up in blockexplorer
1566 2011-07-04 15:27:19 sipa has joined
1567 2011-07-04 15:27:26 <marvin_> yupyup
1568 2011-07-04 15:27:27 <Joric> what do you hate most, autotools or cmake?
1569 2011-07-04 15:27:58 <gmaxwell> lfm: Thats the wrong way of looking at it: 'enuf' security to prevent dictionary attacks completely would require seconds of delay for the user (because the attacker can use a faster hash engine). Few users would tolerate that, they'd just leave their wallet unlocked.
1570 2011-07-04 15:28:27 <Joric> i see the autotools push request is the most discussed hope it will be shut down
1571 2011-07-04 15:28:40 wolfspraul has quit (Quit: leaving)
1572 2011-07-04 15:28:57 <BlueMatt> Joric: so you prefer cmake?
1573 2011-07-04 15:29:09 <Joric> guilty as charged
1574 2011-07-04 15:29:15 <gmaxwell> lfm: to instead it gets as much the users are likely to tolerate on whatever computers they have, clamped to a sane minimum.
1575 2011-07-04 15:29:38 Reapz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1576 2011-07-04 15:29:52 <BlueMatt> Joric: well then go write a bitcoin cmake builder before someone gets the chance to write a real autotools one
1577 2011-07-04 15:30:21 <sipa> BlueMatt: do you intend to do more forced updates to newenc soon?
1578 2011-07-04 15:30:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: no, sorry
1579 2011-07-04 15:30:56 <sipa> no problem if you do, it's just a question
1580 2011-07-04 15:30:58 <BlueMatt> all Ive done today was just move some stuff in ui.cpp around and rebase onto master
1581 2011-07-04 15:31:03 <BlueMatt> no, I dont
1582 2011-07-04 15:31:09 <sipa> if you don't, i can rebase showwallet against it
1583 2011-07-04 15:31:34 <BlueMatt> no, unless someone else has bugs to report, I dont plan on touching it
1584 2011-07-04 15:33:04 Tim-7967 has joined
1585 2011-07-04 15:33:04 Tim-7967 has quit (Changing host)
1586 2011-07-04 15:33:04 Tim-7967 has joined
1587 2011-07-04 15:35:08 <erus`> i think instantwallet.org didnt send the payment ...
1588 2011-07-04 15:36:53 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1589 2011-07-04 15:38:16 <sipa> ;;later tell dinox can you confirm the wrong balance issue is fixed in showwallet now?
1590 2011-07-04 15:38:16 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1591 2011-07-04 15:38:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: whats the status of wallet export/import, or is that showwallet?
1592 2011-07-04 15:39:05 <sipa> yeah, name is very badly chosen
1593 2011-07-04 15:39:33 <BlueMatt> ok, but its pretty much good to go right?
1594 2011-07-04 15:39:56 <sipa> current branch survives my (shallow) testing
1595 2011-07-04 15:40:12 <BlueMatt> nice, ok
1596 2011-07-04 15:40:16 <sipa> BlueMatt: current newenc doesn't compile, btw
1597 2011-07-04 15:40:24 <BlueMatt> huh
1598 2011-07-04 15:40:26 <sipa> ui.cpp: In member function ‘virtual void CMainFrame::OnMenuOptionsEncryptWallet(wxCommandEvent&)’:
1599 2011-07-04 15:40:29 <sipa> ui.cpp:1187: error: ‘strWalletPassTest’ was not declared in this scope
1600 2011-07-04 15:40:52 <BlueMatt> no, I tested the changes...
1601 2011-07-04 15:41:06 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: even with that .24 fix so that it doesn't screw up encrypted wallets, people will still downgrade to older versions. Perhaps the encrpytion should do something more to convince older versions to not screw up the file?
1602 2011-07-04 15:41:19 TruthTaco has joined
1603 2011-07-04 15:41:20 <erus`> ah man
1604 2011-07-04 15:41:26 <erus`> hours of mining gone to waste
1605 2011-07-04 15:41:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: fixed
1606 2011-07-04 15:41:37 slux has joined
1607 2011-07-04 15:41:40 <nanotube> erus`: you can contact instawallet about it
1608 2011-07-04 15:41:48 <erus`> i sent an email
1609 2011-07-04 15:41:48 <Joric> encryption should be reversible no doubt
1610 2011-07-04 15:42:09 <sipa> i think we need a feature array for wallets
1611 2011-07-04 15:42:29 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: sadly there are very few return false's in LoadWallet...
1612 2011-07-04 15:42:29 <sipa> like the ext family for filesystems has
1613 2011-07-04 15:42:39 <gmaxwell> Er, reversible wasn't something that I was talking about. (and I don't know if it would be good)
1614 2011-07-04 15:42:43 <erus`> you need a "removeaccount <account>" command
1615 2011-07-04 15:42:46 <BlueMatt> sipa: I think thats overkill...
1616 2011-07-04 15:42:55 <sipa> maybe, but it's not that hard to implement
1617 2011-07-04 15:42:57 <sipa> "If you don't know this feature, don't touch the wallet"
1618 2011-07-04 15:43:07 <sipa> "If you don't know this feature, ignore it"
1619 2011-07-04 15:43:09 <Optimo> gdamned market manipulators ;p
1620 2011-07-04 15:43:12 <BlueMatt> well my pull req pretty much does that
1621 2011-07-04 15:43:15 <sipa> "If you don't know this feature, don't do transactions"
1622 2011-07-04 15:43:16 <gmaxwell> Joric: right now old versions of bitcoin will /corrupt/ encrypted wallets.
1623 2011-07-04 15:43:19 <BlueMatt> in a slightly indirect way, but less overkill
1624 2011-07-04 15:43:41 <Joric> gmaxwell, i probably noticed that first
1625 2011-07-04 15:43:53 <sipa> how can it corrupt?
1626 2011-07-04 15:43:54 <BlueMatt> or maybe crypter should try to load them...its not that hard, its just that old versions write an unencrypted privkey to wallet
1627 2011-07-04 15:44:02 <sipa> it can't touch ckey's
1628 2011-07-04 15:44:25 <BlueMatt> maybe crypter can notify users "Your wallet got f'd up, can I have your pass to fix it?"
1629 2011-07-04 15:44:27 <sipa> its pool keys refer to private keys that cannot be loaded. though
1630 2011-07-04 15:44:47 <sipa> Joric, gmaxwell: care to elaborate how it corrupts?
1631 2011-07-04 15:44:48 <erus`> when someone sends money to an address. how do clients know who owns the address? (how can one prove it owns it?)
1632 2011-07-04 15:44:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: and when old versions see that, they make a new, unencrypted, private key for vchDefaltKey
1633 2011-07-04 15:44:53 <BlueMatt> sipa: which makes crypter freak out
1634 2011-07-04 15:45:00 <gmaxwell> sipa: bluematt just did, it adds unencrypted keys.
1635 2011-07-04 15:45:11 <sipa> right
1636 2011-07-04 15:45:13 <Joric> sipa, pull request 352
1637 2011-07-04 15:45:29 <sipa> the old encrypted keys still exist, but there are unencrypted keys in addition to that
1638 2011-07-04 15:45:32 <BlueMatt> no, pull 378 is the relevant one here
1639 2011-07-04 15:45:38 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea
1640 2011-07-04 15:45:54 <BlueMatt> it doesnt really cause damage, but crypter (rightfully imo) refuses to load such wallets
1641 2011-07-04 15:47:05 <sipa> BlueMatt: how about adding an intentionally invalid key entry in the db?
1642 2011-07-04 15:47:12 <sipa> just an empty string or so
1643 2011-07-04 15:47:22 <sipa> which crypter code can check for and ignore
1644 2011-07-04 15:47:27 <BlueMatt> I dont think old bitcoin will stop if it sees that
1645 2011-07-04 15:47:53 <apr> mmm
1646 2011-07-04 15:48:01 <apr> what happens after pushpool has found a block / proof of work o.O?
1647 2011-07-04 15:48:06 <BlueMatt> oh, maybe it will
1648 2011-07-04 15:48:17 hvala has joined
1649 2011-07-04 15:48:30 <apr> oh wait nm i see.
1650 2011-07-04 15:48:39 <gmaxwell> If that works, make the new version match the content, so the same thing can be used to break compatiblity in the future.
1651 2011-07-04 15:48:47 <sipa> BlueMatt: no, sorry, it won't
1652 2011-07-04 15:48:50 <BlueMatt> nope, nvm
1653 2011-07-04 15:49:10 <BlueMatt> there are way too few return false's in loadwallet
1654 2011-07-04 15:49:10 <gmaxwell> oh. hm. How about changing the file name?
1655 2011-07-04 15:49:54 <sipa> v0.3.21 does not have any 'return' in LoadWallet, except for succes at the end, and one for error from bdb
1656 2011-07-04 15:50:10 <BlueMatt> yea, that was kind of poor planning
1657 2011-07-04 15:50:13 <gmaxwell> (though its thats done, please add some compatiblity entry so it doesn't need to be done again)
1658 2011-07-04 15:50:34 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/378 is the compatibility entry
1659 2011-07-04 15:50:34 redrixx has joined
1660 2011-07-04 15:50:53 <BlueMatt> if (dont know what the strType is) return false;
1661 2011-07-04 15:51:10 num1 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1662 2011-07-04 15:52:22 redrixx is now known as redrix
1663 2011-07-04 15:52:30 <gmaxwell> Hm. Might it be better to just have a min_version field? avoiding the overkill of a bitmap but allowing some compatiblity. Otherwise every little change will break it.
1664 2011-07-04 15:53:30 <BlueMatt> you know what we might be able to do, make a setting that used to be an int into a string, or smth, that way it will freak out
1665 2011-07-04 15:53:43 <BlueMatt> fGenerateBitcoins is a prime target
1666 2011-07-04 15:54:09 redrix has left ()
1667 2011-07-04 15:54:09 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: imo every little change *should* break it, we arent here to support old versions
1668 2011-07-04 15:54:31 <BlueMatt> if you have a real reason to use an old version, you know enough to downgrade, if you dont, then you shouldnt
1669 2011-07-04 15:55:02 <sipa> no min_version field means that every incompatible change should add a new unused field type
1670 2011-07-04 15:55:15 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: installing/running against an old version has to do something sane; users 'accidently' downgrade all the time.
1671 2011-07-04 15:55:47 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: absolutely, hence why I say just make it refuse to load a wallet which has types the old version doesnt know about
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1673 2011-07-04 15:56:26 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: RE: renaming the wallet.dat : we should consider doing that.  Downside is it would break existing wallet-backup scripts
1674 2011-07-04 15:56:48 <BlueMatt> that may very well be the only reasonable option...
1675 2011-07-04 15:56:49 <sipa> it will cause old client to just create a new wallet
1676 2011-07-04 15:57:11 <gavinandresen> Yup, which is perfectly safe behavior.
1677 2011-07-04 15:57:20 * diki was doing 660mhash, but now does 717
1678 2011-07-04 15:57:26 <sipa> indeed
1679 2011-07-04 15:57:27 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: well, breaking it all the time fill frustrate troubleshooting and beta testing.
1680 2011-07-04 15:57:29 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: safe, but not ideal...
1681 2011-07-04 15:57:44 <gavinandresen> I take safe over ideal any day
1682 2011-07-04 15:57:44 gim has joined
1683 2011-07-04 15:57:50 <BlueMatt> gavinandresen: very true
1684 2011-07-04 15:58:02 <sipa> i prefer creating a new wallet over getting an incomprehensible exception message
1685 2011-07-04 15:58:03 <nanotube> whats that about renaming wallet.dat?
1686 2011-07-04 15:58:04 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: true, but tbh, how often will we add more types to wallet?
1687 2011-07-04 15:58:42 <sipa> nanotube: old clients corrupt the encrypted wallets
1688 2011-07-04 15:58:47 BitcoinForNewegg has quit ()
1689 2011-07-04 15:58:56 <sipa> to a state where the new client does not load them anymore either
1690 2011-07-04 15:58:59 subpar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1691 2011-07-04 15:59:03 <nanotube> sipa: ah... i see
1692 2011-07-04 15:59:21 <BlueMatt> well the problem isnt strictly that they corrupt it, its that they add unencrypted keys
1693 2011-07-04 15:59:24 <lolcat> How is the wallet encrypted?
1694 2011-07-04 15:59:34 <nanotube> sipa: that only happens if encryption is turned on right?
1695 2011-07-04 15:59:35 <lolcat> How to decrypt?
1696 2011-07-04 15:59:48 <nanotube> lolcat: probably some aes256 symmetric encryption scheme
1697 2011-07-04 15:59:49 <gavinandresen> afk for a bit
1698 2011-07-04 16:00:02 * nanotube hasn't really been following along with that heh
1699 2011-07-04 16:00:11 <BlueMatt> what is also fine, would be crypter just saying "hey your wallet has a mix of keys, you probably ran an old version, please enter your pass to crypt the rest of the keys"
1700 2011-07-04 16:00:31 <lolcat> nanotube: i mean, do I have to enter a passphrase to decrypt it?
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1703 2011-07-04 16:01:00 <sipa> lolcat: decryption is not yet supported (as in, converting back to unencrypted format)
1704 2011-07-04 16:01:03 <diki> ;;bc,calc 717000
1705 2011-07-04 16:01:06 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 717000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379223.4296725 , is 13 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 56 minutes, and 52 seconds
1706 2011-07-04 16:01:20 <sipa> lolcat: to use an encrypted wallet (= do transactions with it), it requests the passphrase
1707 2011-07-04 16:02:34 subpar has joined
1708 2011-07-04 16:03:12 <nanotube> BlueMatt: yes, when running on a 'mixed' wallet, new version could just say "hey, i see some unencrypted keys in the wallet, probably because you ran with an old version. would you like me to encrypt those for you?
1709 2011-07-04 16:03:15 <nanotube> "
1710 2011-07-04 16:03:53 <BlueMatt> nanotube: well currently, the idea is that if you have a mixed wallet, something is wrong, and you need to figure out what, so it just say "Cant load wallet.dat" and exits
1711 2011-07-04 16:04:08 <BlueMatt> the problem is old clients will say "hey, I dont have this key" when trying to send...
1712 2011-07-04 16:04:32 Soak has joined
1713 2011-07-04 16:04:42 <nanotube> well, maybe renaming the file is the simplest/safest solution, then...
1714 2011-07-04 16:04:52 <jrmithdobbs> maybe make encrypted wallets be stored in a file named differently?
1715 2011-07-04 16:04:59 <BlueMatt> well there is no damage done when old client says "no key, wtf"
1716 2011-07-04 16:05:02 <BlueMatt> afaik
1717 2011-07-04 16:05:14 <sipa> agree
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1719 2011-07-04 16:05:23 <jrmithdobbs> or even better
1720 2011-07-04 16:05:47 <jrmithdobbs> make wallet.dat only track the actual txns and use crypter as an opportunity to split the key storage off completely from the wallet?
1721 2011-07-04 16:06:04 <gmaxwell> still confusing as heck— you downgrade and then it doesn't work right.
1722 2011-07-04 16:06:32 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs++ there, but ugh, more delays. It would make backups a lot nicer.
1723 2011-07-04 16:06:33 <nanotube> jrmithdobbs: yea splitting transaction cache, private key storage, and public key storage would be good i think
1724 2011-07-04 16:06:33 <jrmithdobbs> downgrading with an encrypted wallet is just not going to work anyways
1725 2011-07-04 16:06:48 <nanotube> jrmithdobbs: not least because we could run a 'public only' node, which has no capability to create transactions
1726 2011-07-04 16:07:02 <gmaxwell> not work is fine— looking like it works but failing strangely is less fine.
1727 2011-07-04 16:07:05 <nanotube> thereby enabling an easy airgap-separation for the private key store
1728 2011-07-04 16:07:09 <jrmithdobbs> nanotube: well, that requires quite a bit more work
1729 2011-07-04 16:07:18 <jrmithdobbs> but ya it makes it possible down the line
1730 2011-07-04 16:07:21 <nanotube> jrmithdobbs: yes, but first step, separate storage :)
1731 2011-07-04 16:08:29 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: oh, i see some of your proposals/objections now, didn't read the whole conversation before commenting
1732 2011-07-04 16:08:32 <jrmithdobbs> also
1733 2011-07-04 16:08:45 <jrmithdobbs> "it will break wallet backup scripts" is a pretty bad reason not to rename it or split it to sep storage
1734 2011-07-04 16:09:06 <jrmithdobbs> all current wallet backup scripts are so dangerous that breaking them should be a goal, not something to avoid, once dumpwallet/etc are in
1735 2011-07-04 16:09:09 <gmaxwell> eh, its a reason to not do it all the time.
1736 2011-07-04 16:09:23 <mark__> Does anyone know if bitcoin uses a locking db/dbm  (for transactions)...eg, when doing something like: Customer transfers coins to another customer: move "userid1" "userid2" <amount>
1737 2011-07-04 16:09:40 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: no it's not
1738 2011-07-04 16:09:54 <sipa> not sure i like splitting off storage of transactions and keys right now
1739 2011-07-04 16:09:58 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: because once sipa's showwallet is in you shouldn't be backing up that way at all and backups wont rely on file names/location
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1741 2011-07-04 16:10:11 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: hm. because of the update race.. right.. I suppose.
1742 2011-07-04 16:10:36 <jrmithdobbs> i mean i'm not saying change filenames every release or something dumb ;p
1743 2011-07-04 16:10:40 <sipa> somewhere in the future, different backends for storing transactions and keys are definitely necessary
1744 2011-07-04 16:11:00 <sipa> but current wallet.dat is a collection of all private data, and if you keep wallet.dat together, it remains always consistent
1745 2011-07-04 16:11:18 <sipa> and i prefer keeping it that way
1746 2011-07-04 16:11:32 <lolcat> sipa: Thank you for clearing that up for me :)
1747 2011-07-04 16:11:35 <sipa> if there is a way for exporting/importing/inspecting its contents
1748 2011-07-04 16:11:40 <nanotube> mark__: it uses berkeleydb... i /presume/ it does... but you have to look at the code to be sure.
1749 2011-07-04 16:11:48 graingert has joined
1750 2011-07-04 16:11:48 <mark__> thanks
1751 2011-07-04 16:11:50 <gmaxwell> sipa: fine enough.
1752 2011-07-04 16:12:24 <graingert> cool
1753 2011-07-04 16:12:29 <mark__> berkeleydb does do locking... but you have to set it. I am pretty sure they do... will check -thanks!
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1755 2011-07-04 16:12:42 <sipa> maybe renaming isn't so bad an option
1756 2011-07-04 16:12:58 <sipa> it's pretty useful to be able to see whether a file is encrypted or not without needing to open bitcoin
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1758 2011-07-04 16:14:54 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: but txn history isn't really private data
1759 2011-07-04 16:14:56 <sipa> also, since CWallet the only place where the filename is defined is init.cpp, so it should be pretty easy to use another name
1760 2011-07-04 16:15:02 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: s/private/personal
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1762 2011-07-04 16:16:21 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: well, at the least the 'personal' data needs to run in it's own bdb env at some point so that txn logs (bdb txns, not btc txns) can actually be usefully backed up imho
1763 2011-07-04 16:16:44 <sipa> there i definitely agree
1764 2011-07-04 16:16:56 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: you made the counter argument yourself— the export stuff.
1765 2011-07-04 16:17:03 <sipa> it should be possible to specify a wallet file yourself, on a separate location
1766 2011-07-04 16:17:41 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ya but there's still worst case recovery scenarios where usable, and separate, bdb txn logs could be useful
1767 2011-07-04 16:18:17 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: and doing that is pretty much a req for multiple wallet support anyways
1768 2011-07-04 16:18:32 <sipa> multiple wallets if useful
1769 2011-07-04 16:18:38 <Joric> how to view someone's job profile on github? can't find it
1770 2011-07-04 16:19:10 <sipa> but making the wallet.dat file visible to the user is far more important
1771 2011-07-04 16:19:33 <sipa> if people need to select a wallet to open, they can link their wallet to that file mentally
1772 2011-07-04 16:19:51 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1773 2011-07-04 16:20:06 <sipa> now the client effectively makes them wonder "how the hell does my computer know which coins belong to me"
1774 2011-07-04 16:20:24 <Herodes> it's a good point imo.
1775 2011-07-04 16:21:00 <gmaxwell> yea, also— people sometimes screw themselves trying to swap files in order check backups, access secondary wallets, etc.
1776 2011-07-04 16:21:28 <Herodes> yes, for mass adoption the client must be idiot proof.
1777 2011-07-04 16:21:31 <Herodes> as much as possible.
1778 2011-07-04 16:22:02 <sipa> if you want it idiot proof, it would need a cloud-based storage/backup mechanism
1779 2011-07-04 16:22:07 <gmaxwell> Herodes: To some extent. I expect idiotproofness will mostly come from things like webwallets, which can be much more idiotpoof.
1780 2011-07-04 16:22:10 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: i think it should be a goal to actually hide the actual storage format from the users
1781 2011-07-04 16:22:11 <sipa> people cannot be trusted with their own money in a file
1782 2011-07-04 16:22:38 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: let them import/export via showwallet in the gui (at some point) so that the "files" they import are actually the semi-portable dumps instead of the actual storage
1783 2011-07-04 16:22:40 <Herodes> yes, but then again we have centralized solutions.
1784 2011-07-04 16:22:49 <jrmithdobbs> (I know i'm contradicting myself all over the place here, thanks ;p)
1785 2011-07-04 16:22:55 <Herodes> If we want to go with the decentralized idea, that's what we should aim for.
1786 2011-07-04 16:22:55 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: that's another and possible better option indeed
1787 2011-07-04 16:23:39 dvide has joined
1788 2011-07-04 16:23:53 <sipa> what we really need is a libbitcoin, and let all usability experts create their own client
1789 2011-07-04 16:24:13 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 2000 1
1790 2011-07-04 16:24:14 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 35 minutes and 47 seconds
1791 2011-07-04 16:24:14 <Joric> as a pro idiot i didn't know each address is a separate keypair it thought it's just private key + nonce didn't expect i'll lose funds using the old backup
1792 2011-07-04 16:24:46 <sipa> some may be lowlevel and have the ability to micromanage wallets, keypairs, transactions
1793 2011-07-04 16:24:59 <sipa> some may be centralized, cloud-based, interacting with a e-wallet
1794 2011-07-04 16:25:59 <Herodes> I have an idea, don't know what you people think of it. But alas it's probably just usable for computer saavy people. If someone invented a client/server system where you run the bitcoin client on your home system that's connected to the net, and then you don't have to have the block-chain on say your android phone to make a purchase, because the android app would just connect to the home machine of the user to check. Could somethin
1795 2011-07-04 16:25:59 <Herodes> g like that work? Also web-solution or other centralized solutions over mobile network is possible, but if tech saavy users could just run a server at home, we'd have thosands of servers running, instead of a few centralized servers that easy to take down. Just something I tought of, what do you think of such a system?
1796 2011-07-04 16:26:01 <nanotube> Joric: hrm, well that's described in the 'securing your wallet' wiki page. that said, you're not the only one to lose coins due to old backup.
1797 2011-07-04 16:26:01 warpi has joined
1798 2011-07-04 16:26:26 <nanotube> Herodes: already exists: https://github.com/tcatm/bitcoin-js-remote
1799 2011-07-04 16:26:34 <Herodes> thaht's cool
1800 2011-07-04 16:26:37 <Herodes> will check it out.
1801 2011-07-04 16:27:12 <Herodes> 'often when you think of something, some others have already tought of it.'
1802 2011-07-04 16:27:13 <Herodes> hehe
1803 2011-07-04 16:27:26 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: definitely
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1805 2011-07-04 16:28:28 <sipa> gtg
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1807 2011-07-04 16:29:03 <nanotube> Herodes: indeed
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1810 2011-07-04 16:38:06 <Joric> coderrr, did you update 'send from specific address' to 0.3.24? it looks totally different
1811 2011-07-04 16:38:25 <coderrr> I haven't, did 0.3.24 just come out ?
1812 2011-07-04 16:38:31 <coderrr> or what do you mean ?
1813 2011-07-04 16:38:31 <Joric> rc1
1814 2011-07-04 16:38:34 <coderrr> ah
1815 2011-07-04 16:38:45 <coderrr> you want me to merge it into that ?
1816 2011-07-04 16:39:24 <Joric> i failed at it
1817 2011-07-04 16:39:34 <coderrr> k ill take a look at it later
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1845 2011-07-04 17:05:28 <graingert> Joric, what are the changes in 24rc1?
1846 2011-07-04 17:05:41 <diki> ;;bc,calcd 8000 1
1847 2011-07-04 17:05:41 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 8000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 8 minutes and 56 seconds
1848 2011-07-04 17:08:01 aldiyen__ is now known as aldiyen
1849 2011-07-04 17:08:25 <Joric> graingert, https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25515.0
1850 2011-07-04 17:08:46 deceit has joined
1851 2011-07-04 17:09:35 <graingert> Joric, cryface no crypto
1852 2011-07-04 17:09:49 <Joric> happyface no crypto
1853 2011-07-04 17:10:02 <Joric> it fucks up the wallet currently
1854 2011-07-04 17:10:23 <BlueMatt> coderrr: what branch do you maintain?
1855 2011-07-04 17:10:36 <BlueMatt> Joric: no it doesnt, it just confuses old versions
1856 2011-07-04 17:10:44 <coderrr> BlueMatt, https://github.com/coderrr/bitcoin/tree/v0.3.23%2Bcoderrr
1857 2011-07-04 17:10:47 <BlueMatt> really, the only major problem is that new bitcoin fails to load
1858 2011-07-04 17:10:58 <coderrr> BlueMatt http://coderrr.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/patching-the-bitcoin-client-to-make-it-more-anonymous/
1859 2011-07-04 17:11:01 ProjectNitro has joined
1860 2011-07-04 17:12:14 <BlueMatt> coderrr: oh, so it allows one to chose inputs for txes, what else?
1861 2011-07-04 17:12:27 <coderrr> BlueMatt, also shows what addresses have been linked togehter
1862 2011-07-04 17:12:31 <coderrr> thats about it
1863 2011-07-04 17:12:34 <BlueMatt> oh, thats kinda cool
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1868 2011-07-04 17:14:52 <b4epoche_> so, how big could the information contained in a tx theoretically be with a custom block chain?  Any size?
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1871 2011-07-04 17:17:13 <justmoon> b4epoche, an entirely custom block chain? in a custom chain you make the rules, so the limit would be whatever practical hardware limitations your system has
1872 2011-07-04 17:17:14 <b4epoche_> lying in bed last night I got to thinking about an IPCoin (IP = intellectual property)
1873 2011-07-04 17:17:37 <justmoon> b4epoche, for something like that you'd only include a hash in the block chain, not the whole data
1874 2011-07-04 17:17:38 erus` has joined
1875 2011-07-04 17:18:05 <b4epoche_> yea, I was thinking that too...  but it would be nice to include at least some data
1876 2011-07-04 17:18:28 <justmoon> DHT is a perfectly viable decentralized datastore
1877 2011-07-04 17:18:37 <justmoon> you only need a block chain for proof of time
1878 2011-07-04 17:18:44 <b4epoche_> let's overthrow the patent system!!!
1879 2011-07-04 17:18:53 <b4epoche_> DHT?
1880 2011-07-04 17:19:22 <justmoon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_hash_table
1881 2011-07-04 17:19:25 <coderrr> b4epoche, there have been some websites that did this before, of course thats a centralized solution, but I dunno if anyone has actually tried to use them in any legal sense
1882 2011-07-04 17:19:28 <justmoon> man, I'm slow at googling :)
1883 2011-07-04 17:19:39 deceit has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1884 2011-07-04 17:19:54 <justmoon> yeah, a patent system needs enforcement
1885 2011-07-04 17:19:58 <coderrr> or liek some else suggested, posting the hash to a mailing list
1886 2011-07-04 17:20:06 <coderrr> thast pretty much proof enuf of a timestamp
1887 2011-07-04 17:20:31 <b4epoche_> well, it would be more about undermining the patent system
1888 2011-07-04 17:20:35 deceit has joined
1889 2011-07-04 17:20:38 <justmoon> coderrr, yes - if the chance that someone else is submitting a similar work at a similar time is very small
1890 2011-07-04 17:21:00 aldiyen has joined
1891 2011-07-04 17:21:12 <b4epoche_> because if you can prove that something has been disclosed previously (in public) then it can't be patented (basically)
1892 2011-07-04 17:21:26 <justmoon> hmm
1893 2011-07-04 17:21:32 <coderrr> yea, im just curious if anyone has acutally used hashes to prove that in court
1894 2011-07-04 17:22:04 <justmoon> I don't think it's that simple in practice, you can always claim that there is some obscure distinction that makes your idea still novel
1895 2011-07-04 17:22:17 <b4epoche_> you gotta think if DNA testing is admissible then "hash testing' would be
1896 2011-07-04 17:22:18 <coderrr> justmoon, yea but at least its a start
1897 2011-07-04 17:22:40 <justmoon> b4epoche, certainly you could use hashes in court why not?
1898 2011-07-04 17:22:58 <b4epoche_> justmoon:  yea, I'm not a patent lawyer.  although one of my former students is
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1901 2011-07-04 17:23:26 <justmoon> you'd need an expert explaining why it's secure, but there is nothing legally wrong with any line of evidence as long as it's reliable
1902 2011-07-04 17:23:43 <b4epoche_> but I'm wondering about a system like this since it costs so damn much to file a patent
1903 2011-07-04 17:23:59 <b4epoche_> although I guess the (US) patent system is getting an overhaul
1904 2011-07-04 17:24:25 <justmoon> patents are expensive because it's expensive to pretend to do the impossible
1905 2011-07-04 17:24:40 <justmoon> the only way you can appear to do the impossible is to bury the truth in layers of complexity
1906 2011-07-04 17:24:52 <b4epoche_> which requires lawyers
1907 2011-07-04 17:25:06 <justmoon> so whenever the government tries to legislate something that is logically impossible you end up with some legal behemoth system
1908 2011-07-04 17:25:26 <justmoon> similar thing happens with software that tries to do something impossible too, btw
1909 2011-07-04 17:25:50 <justmoon> it gets more and more complex until nobody knows anymore if it actually ultimately does what it was supposed to do :)
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1911 2011-07-04 17:27:04 <justmoon> and for completeness: the impossible problem I'm refering to that the patent system is trying to solve is: where does one idea stop and another idea begin?
1912 2011-07-04 17:27:05 <b4epoche_> that method also works for getting papers published and proposals funded
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1914 2011-07-04 17:27:52 <justmoon> b4epoche, publishing papers is a good use case I think
1915 2011-07-04 17:28:14 <justmoon> also news stories, pretty much anything where it might matter who said it first, when it was said, etc.
1916 2011-07-04 17:28:59 erus` has joined
1917 2011-07-04 17:29:30 <b4epoche_> yea, my first thought was paper publishing but there are repositories (although centralized for a given field) that do it okay
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1919 2011-07-04 17:29:52 <justmoon> that's always the question, where do you actually need decentralization?
1920 2011-07-04 17:30:30 <justmoon> Hal Varian, chief economist at google called bitcoin a solution in search of a problem
1921 2011-07-04 17:30:57 <dbasch> Hal Varian is an idiot if he doesn't see the obvious problems
1922 2011-07-04 17:31:09 <b4epoche_> Google has a chief economist?
1923 2011-07-04 17:31:09 <justmoon> hey I'm not saying I agree with him
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1925 2011-07-04 17:31:16 <nanotube> justmoon: ouch, my respect for hal varian just dropped a little.
1926 2011-07-04 17:31:18 <egecko> he's got tons of his fiat currency, he doesnt give a crap
1927 2011-07-04 17:31:30 <justmoon> b4epoche, google hal varian, he made a video explanation of the adsense auction system
1928 2011-07-04 17:31:37 <dbasch> for example, he's never tried to send $ from USA to Argentina
1929 2011-07-04 17:31:48 <b4epoche_> honestly, I can kinda see what he's (probably) saying
1930 2011-07-04 17:31:53 <justmoon> nanotube, his field is microeconomics, give him a break ;)
1931 2011-07-04 17:31:57 <dbasch> where you lose 10% and several days of time
1932 2011-07-04 17:32:27 <b4epoche_> for the 'average' person the current currency system really isn't a problem
1933 2011-07-04 17:32:58 <justmoon> dbasch, can you actually do that more cheaply with bitcoins already? or are you saying that one day bitcoin will make it more cheaply?
1934 2011-07-04 17:33:12 <b4epoche_> but I suspect that will slowly change...
1935 2011-07-04 17:33:16 <dbasch> justmoon: I'm saying that the problem is there, and I know lots of people who suffer it
1936 2011-07-04 17:33:29 <dbasch> bitcoin addresses exactly that issue
1937 2011-07-04 17:33:39 <b4epoche_> I see bitcoin as a solution to a growing problem
1938 2011-07-04 17:33:54 joepie91 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1939 2011-07-04 17:33:59 <b4epoche_> people see the problem coming, and a solution will be necessary
1940 2011-07-04 17:34:00 <dbasch> the Argentinian government gets in the way of international money transfers
1941 2011-07-04 17:34:05 <justmoon> b4epoche, agreed - though we might get blamed for the very problems in the existing system
1942 2011-07-04 17:34:14 <justmoon> depending on how big bitcoin is by then
1943 2011-07-04 17:34:18 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1944 2011-07-04 17:34:38 <dbasch> if I want to send $500 to my mother, she has to physically go to a bank and justify where the money comes from
1945 2011-07-04 17:34:45 <dbasch> do paperwork
1946 2011-07-04 17:34:49 <jeremias> i have always wondered why downloading the block chain is so slow
1947 2011-07-04 17:34:52 <dbasch> and lose at least $50
1948 2011-07-04 17:34:52 <b4epoche_> no, bitcoin won't get blamed but it might not be the solution that wins
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1956 2011-07-04 17:35:31 <egecko> dbasch, good thing you didnt send her $600 or she would have had to pay taxes on it as income
1957 2011-07-04 17:35:38 <justmoon> dbasch, let's be realistic though, once bitcoin becomes more mainstream, maybe exchanges will be just as bureaucratic, don't you think?
1958 2011-07-04 17:36:01 <nanotube> justmoon: yes, and as a microeconomist, i expected him to be smarter than a macroeconomist :)
1959 2011-07-04 17:36:03 <sivu> hmm... if i use testnet-in-a-box and generate blocks to it, the block becomes orphan as soon as another block is generated
1960 2011-07-04 17:36:04 <dbasch> justmoon: well, if bitcoin works as intented why do you care about exchanges?
1961 2011-07-04 17:36:06 <sivu> whatte
1962 2011-07-04 17:36:10 <justmoon> nanotube, lolz
1963 2011-07-04 17:36:19 <dbasch> if my mom can go to the grocery store and pay with bitcoin, we win
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1965 2011-07-04 17:36:36 <nanotube> dbasch: well, she can go to mezegrill in nyc and buy lunch, at least. :) that's a start
1966 2011-07-04 17:36:44 erus` has joined
1967 2011-07-04 17:36:45 <justmoon> dbasch, oh ok, well, that's a pretty high goal indeed - not only mainstream acceptance, but global mainstream acceptance
1968 2011-07-04 17:37:06 <dbasch> some countries are much more ready for virtual currencies than the US
1969 2011-07-04 17:37:23 <justmoon> dbasch, I agree
1970 2011-07-04 17:37:36 joepie91 has joined
1971 2011-07-04 17:37:41 <dbasch> my beef is with Hal Varian saying that "there are no problems to be solved"
1972 2011-07-04 17:37:43 <BitcoinForNewegg> anyone interested in writing somethign I can run on my linuxcoin live USB stick that will start mining using all GPU for a pool specified in a config file? I got 2 bitcoins I can give you in payment
1973 2011-07-04 17:37:53 <dbasch> that's just an incredibly myopic statement
1974 2011-07-04 17:38:08 <Joric> http://www.google.com/trends?q=bitcoin
1975 2011-07-04 17:38:21 warpi has joined
1976 2011-07-04 17:38:29 <b4epoche_> at the very least bitcoin might force the 'man' to make some changes
1977 2011-07-04 17:38:31 <Joric> god knows why russia
1978 2011-07-04 17:38:40 <BitcoinForNewegg> if you can make it run when the live cd boots il mine for a day or 2 for you :)
1979 2011-07-04 17:39:36 <justmoon> BitcoinForNewegg, on your 386? :D
1980 2011-07-04 17:39:38 dehuman has left ()
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1982 2011-07-04 17:40:09 <BitcoinForNewegg> I will do 5 mh/s
1983 2011-07-04 17:40:14 <BitcoinForNewegg> 5 gh/s
1984 2011-07-04 17:40:29 <justmoon> hehe ok, good deal then!
1985 2011-07-04 17:40:38 <BitcoinForNewegg> so thats what another 5-10 coin?
1986 2011-07-04 17:41:01 <justmoon> is there a gribble command for that calculation?
1987 2011-07-04 17:41:24 <BitcoinForNewegg> I will have 16x 6950s, I have about half of them now, the rest are being shipped
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1989 2011-07-04 17:41:45 <BitcoinForNewegg> ;;bc,calc 5000000000
1990 2011-07-04 17:41:47 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5000000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 19 minutes and 44 seconds
1991 2011-07-04 17:41:51 <BitcoinForNewegg> ;;bc,calc 5000000
1992 2011-07-04 17:41:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 5000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 1 week, 6 days, 17 hours, 5 minutes, and 17 seconds
1993 2011-07-04 17:42:43 <BitcoinForNewegg> so howabout 2 bitcoins when u write it + the first 10 bitcoins I mine go to you
1994 2011-07-04 17:42:52 <BitcoinForNewegg> and you can distribute it freely and ask for donations
1995 2011-07-04 17:43:04 shLONG has joined
1996 2011-07-04 17:43:09 <nanotube> dbasch: so where did he say that, got link?
1997 2011-07-04 17:44:32 <dbasch> nanotube: someone said it here about 10' ago, no idea where from
1998 2011-07-04 17:44:36 <b4epoche_> BitcoinForNewegg:  wouldn't you just need a script and an existing miner?
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2000 2011-07-04 17:44:47 <BitcoinForNewegg> i have the pyoclbm thing
2001 2011-07-04 17:44:49 <dbasch> justmoon: do you have a link?
2002 2011-07-04 17:44:58 <BitcoinForNewegg> I just want a script written to mine with all GPU
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2005 2011-07-04 17:45:21 <NxTitle_> ;;bc,calc 360000
2006 2011-07-04 17:45:22 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 360000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 27 weeks, 1 day, 10 hours, 40 minutes, and 4 seconds
2007 2011-07-04 17:45:27 <b4epoche_> what do other multi-GPU miners use?
2008 2011-07-04 17:45:53 <BitcoinForNewegg> figure it out and make it automatic and theres 2 bitcons + tmy first 10 mined in to for u :)
2009 2011-07-04 17:45:59 torsthaldo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2010 2011-07-04 17:47:59 <Joric> "just give me all GPUs you have" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrIeP798hiQ
2011 2011-07-04 17:48:55 NaturalOrder8 has joined
2012 2011-07-04 17:49:00 <NaturalOrder8> I started a Global Sports Book on the bitcoin forum... check it out if your into sports betting, instant payouts! http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25263.0
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2067 2011-07-04 17:54:35 <Happy0> lul :|
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2074 2011-07-04 17:55:35 <diki> for some reason...blkmond stopped working...it's not notifying about a new block...well, long polling doesnt work
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2078 2011-07-04 17:55:59 <BitcoinForNewegg> anyone here able to write an automatic mining script for linuxcoin, I will pay for the work
2079 2011-07-04 17:58:09 <BitcoinForNewegg> paying 12 bitcoins + $200 credit card for automatic mining script for linuxcoin
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2085 2011-07-04 18:01:49 <Joric> BitcoinForNewegg, solo or pool mining?
2086 2011-07-04 18:02:20 currentB has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2087 2011-07-04 18:03:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> pool
2088 2011-07-04 18:03:19 <Joric> BitcoinForNewegg, rc.local: python poclbm.py -d 0 --host= --port= --user= --pass= &
2089 2011-07-04 18:03:22 <BitcoinForNewegg> and it must use a config file
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2092 2011-07-04 18:04:57 <BitcoinForNewegg> all I want is to have 'something' I can stick in a miing computer and boot from it
2093 2011-07-04 18:05:11 <BitcoinForNewegg> I got linuxcoin working, but I cant figure out how to mine with it
2094 2011-07-04 18:05:39 <BitcoinForNewegg> I woudl liek to be able to just edit the pool address, and the user/pass in a file
2095 2011-07-04 18:05:53 <BitcoinForNewegg> so I can mke new ones for each miner
2096 2011-07-04 18:06:46 <MrSam> i gues you could do some linux on a stick thing
2097 2011-07-04 18:07:17 <BitcoinForNewegg> i got linuxcoin working just I woudl like some files to put on my usb stick so I can just boot the stick and it magically works
2098 2011-07-04 18:08:24 <BitcoinForNewegg> also how many pool accounts do I need, just one? one per machine? one per GPU?
2099 2011-07-04 18:08:31 <justmoon> just one
2100 2011-07-04 18:08:41 <Joric> do you realize you pay $400 for a single line in rc.local
2101 2011-07-04 18:08:51 <BitcoinForNewegg> it is worth it for me :)
2102 2011-07-04 18:08:58 <b4epoche_> BitcoinForNewegg:  While I've used Unix for many years, I'm not sure how exactly you'd do something in Linux, but you should look at /etc/rc.common
2103 2011-07-04 18:09:13 <b4epoche_> or rc.local
2104 2011-07-04 18:09:54 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
2105 2011-07-04 18:12:36 <BitcoinForNewegg> so who wants to write it :)
2106 2011-07-04 18:13:14 <jtaylor> linuxcoin is ubuntu based or?
2107 2011-07-04 18:13:27 <BitcoinForNewegg> i honestly have no clue im pretty noob at linux
2108 2011-07-04 18:13:29 <JackStorm> BitcoinForNewegg: you mean a script like this: http://pastebin.com/QJpFAgYy
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2111 2011-07-04 18:13:57 <justmoon> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/LinuxCoin
2112 2011-07-04 18:14:03 <justmoon> it's not ubuntu, but it is debian based
2113 2011-07-04 18:14:13 <BitcoinForNewegg> that loks like what I need
2114 2011-07-04 18:14:57 <BitcoinForNewegg> let me run it and see if it works, then u can show me how to make it run when linux starts
2115 2011-07-04 18:15:02 <BitcoinForNewegg> thne il send the money :)
2116 2011-07-04 18:15:26 <jtaylor> you can get better scripts for 12 btc ^^
2117 2011-07-04 18:15:53 <BitcoinForNewegg> I dont need better :) just working
2118 2011-07-04 18:16:10 <justmoon> wise words
2119 2011-07-04 18:16:17 <BitcoinForNewegg> and its 2 bitcoin + $200 cc + the first 10 bitcoin I mine
2120 2011-07-04 18:16:34 <BitcoinForNewegg> so take me ~2-3 days to get he 10
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2122 2011-07-04 18:16:51 <jtaylor> you must have to much money o_O
2123 2011-07-04 18:17:10 <BitcoinForNewegg> i see how much money I am wasting with my servers idleing :/
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2128 2011-07-04 18:18:51 <JackStorm> BitcoinForNewegg,  and to have it autostart, just copy it to /etc/init.d ; and if it's called launcher.sh  run "update-rc.d launcher.sh defaults" for it to auto start with the system
2129 2011-07-04 18:19:18 <BitcoinForNewegg> hmm, small problem
2130 2011-07-04 18:19:20 <jtaylor> init.d is so 1980 ^^
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2132 2011-07-04 18:19:41 <JackStorm> jtaylor, yeah need to convert it to upstart :)
2133 2011-07-04 18:19:43 <BitcoinForNewegg> i wont be able to run the update-rc script cause its a live cd
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2135 2011-07-04 18:20:01 <jtaylor> you could also just use xdg autostart
2136 2011-07-04 18:20:09 <jtaylor> and systemd is nicer than upstart :P
2137 2011-07-04 18:20:51 <BitcoinForNewegg> do u knwo how to edit a .squashfs?
2138 2011-07-04 18:21:46 <dsockwell> there are livecd cookers for debian
2139 2011-07-04 18:21:46 <BitcoinForNewegg> or should I boot it as a persistant live cd and edit it there?
2140 2011-07-04 18:21:51 <dsockwell> or you could, you know, install
2141 2011-07-04 18:21:52 <dsockwell> the os
2142 2011-07-04 18:22:04 <jtaylor> maybe there is no harddisk?
2143 2011-07-04 18:22:14 <jtaylor> a persistent live cd should be easier
2144 2011-07-04 18:22:14 <BitcoinForNewegg> no HDD, just a flash drive
2145 2011-07-04 18:22:22 <jtaylor> or live usb
2146 2011-07-04 18:22:29 <dsockwell> you'll kill a flash drive with a real bitcoin installation
2147 2011-07-04 18:22:37 <dsockwell> but running a miner should be fine
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2149 2011-07-04 18:22:44 <BitcoinForNewegg> ya just a miner
2150 2011-07-04 18:22:56 <BitcoinForNewegg> a pool miner :)
2151 2011-07-04 18:23:05 <BitcoinForNewegg> a full miner would definatly kill something
2152 2011-07-04 18:23:09 <jtaylor> you could load most into a ram tmpfs
2153 2011-07-04 18:23:10 <dsockwell> no
2154 2011-07-04 18:23:20 <dsockwell> actually yeah that's how i do it
2155 2011-07-04 18:23:29 <dsockwell> you just need 2 gigabytes to bootstrap the thing
2156 2011-07-04 18:23:45 <dsockwell> wait i'm talking about bitcoind again and not poclminer
2157 2011-07-04 18:23:51 <dsockwell> or whatever it's called
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2162 2011-07-04 18:26:18 <BitcoinForNewegg> it woudl stop workign when the blockchain is larger than ram...
2163 2011-07-04 18:26:27 <BitcoinForNewegg> thats why pooled mining is the only real way to mine
2164 2011-07-04 18:26:49 <jtaylor> you could place the blockchain on a network filesytem with a harddisk :9
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2166 2011-07-04 18:27:21 <jtaylor> you only need one daemon running, so you don't even need that ^^
2167 2011-07-04 18:28:14 <dsockwell> BitcoinForNewegg: for my installation 2GB was enough to start the client
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2170 2011-07-04 18:32:58 <JackStorm> BitcoinForNewegg, yeah it looks like booting persistence would do it, but don't use update-rc.d edit /etc/xdg/lxsession/LXDE/autostart and add @/home/<user>/laucher.sh or what ever you called it
2171 2011-07-04 18:33:27 <JackStorm> (that way the miner will have access to the xsession as the user logged in, and will run)
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2173 2011-07-04 18:34:25 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r8ba1910 / lib/schema/block.js : Split mineNextBlock into mineNextBlock and prepareNextBlock. - http://bit.ly/iIkXWp
2174 2011-07-04 18:34:25 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rf893e79 / lib/connection.js : New master error handler for problem during message processing. - http://bit.ly/iTyPPW
2175 2011-07-04 18:34:26 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rd05754e / lib/blocklocator.js :
2176 2011-07-04 18:34:26 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Handle case where BlockLocator query turns up empty.
2177 2011-07-04 18:34:26 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: This shouldn't happen in normal operation, but can happen if there is
2178 2011-07-04 18:34:26 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: an issue with the database, so we need to handle it. - http://bit.ly/mgLDMU
2179 2011-07-04 18:34:26 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * rfb8bfd7 / lib/rpc/jsonrpcserver.js : Added getwork command - read-only. - http://bit.ly/koarpX
2180 2011-07-04 18:35:19 alystair has joined
2181 2011-07-04 18:37:22 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r9de9214 / package.json : Needs jsonrpc2 >= 0.0.3 due to syntax changes. - http://bit.ly/m5834G
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2192 2011-07-04 18:46:29 <Moonies> could someone point me to a blockchain downoad? I'm turtling somewhere around 135k
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2197 2011-07-04 18:50:36 <diki> jgarzik, your miner seems to give a lot of rejects when not in a pool
2198 2011-07-04 18:50:48 <diki> i am doing solo directly to bitcoin...a ton of rejects
2199 2011-07-04 18:52:17 <CIA-103> bitcoin: various gitignore * rc1c7f7..1c528e bitcoind-personal/ (17 files in 6 dirs): (27 commits) http://tinyurl.com/42xwlrr
2200 2011-07-04 18:52:45 m00p has joined
2201 2011-07-04 18:52:48 <jgarzik> diki: duh :)
2202 2011-07-04 18:52:51 WildSoil has joined
2203 2011-07-04 18:52:55 <jgarzik> diki: solo mining is a lot harder :)
2204 2011-07-04 18:53:06 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
2205 2011-07-04 18:53:09 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134758 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 313 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 19 hours, 28 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1584487.44301871
2206 2011-07-04 18:53:30 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r7386cca / README.md : Simplified installation instructions. - http://bit.ly/iQwdlo
2207 2011-07-04 18:54:03 <gmaxwell> Moonies: if you addnode=71.191.197.79 it should get the chain fairly fast. (thats one running the flood protection patch) I never remember where the http blockchain download is...
2208 2011-07-04 18:55:42 gwillen_ is now known as gwillen
2209 2011-07-04 18:56:23 <Moonies> thank you <3
2210 2011-07-04 18:56:39 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2211 2011-07-04 18:56:56 <diki> jgarzik:but...other miners dont seems to submit like that
2212 2011-07-04 18:57:04 <diki> your miner is the first to submit shares for solo
2213 2011-07-04 18:57:35 <diki> other miners just get new work...and dont submit
2214 2011-07-04 19:01:44 <warpi> hello! do anyone know how to fix this? https://github.com/warpi/BitPay/issues/8
2215 2011-07-04 19:04:07 warpi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2216 2011-07-04 19:04:14 <diki> also..how does your miner work? Does it work on one getwork via two GPUs or each gpu get's it's own work?
2217 2011-07-04 19:05:55 <pogden> warpi: BitPay/src/com/bitcoin/bitpay/BitPayHttpsConnection.java:16
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2219 2011-07-04 19:08:47 Glasswlkr is now known as Glasswalker
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2222 2011-07-04 19:10:49 <luke-jr> is there a reason for the 2 second sleep in CheckBlock?
2223 2011-07-04 19:11:57 AkiTensai has joined
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2227 2011-07-04 19:13:43 <justmoon> you mean CheckWork?
2228 2011-07-04 19:14:08 <justmoon> that causes the miner to stop for a second when it found a block
2229 2011-07-04 19:14:12 <justmoon> seems reasonable?
2230 2011-07-04 19:14:20 <justmoon> two seconds*
2231 2011-07-04 19:14:53 <justmoon> luke-jr: ^
2232 2011-07-04 19:15:05 <luke-jr> no
2233 2011-07-04 19:15:07 <luke-jr> why should it?
2234 2011-07-04 19:15:23 <BlueMatt> to let everything figure it all out with a new block
2235 2011-07-04 19:15:26 <justmoon> to give the block a chance to get published
2236 2011-07-04 19:15:31 oozyburglar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2237 2011-07-04 19:15:32 <BlueMatt> ie wallet figure out what is his, publish block
2238 2011-07-04 19:15:34 <BlueMatt> etc etc
2239 2011-07-04 19:15:40 <justmoon> yeah -> that
2240 2011-07-04 19:17:11 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: huh?
2241 2011-07-04 19:17:18 <luke-jr> why would it sitting idle do that?
2242 2011-07-04 19:17:30 NaturalOrder8 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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2245 2011-07-04 19:18:17 <justmoon> luke-jr, the miner is separate process iirc, if it loops right back into mining it'll get a bogus getwork because the client's state hasn't updated
2246 2011-07-04 19:18:26 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: because it might take some cputime to loop over txes, refresh ui, etc, etc
2247 2011-07-04 19:18:31 <BlueMatt> and to send it out over the net
2248 2011-07-04 19:19:04 briareus has joined
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2250 2011-07-04 19:19:19 <luke-jr> grmbl
2251 2011-07-04 19:19:34 <justmoon> there are certainly more elegant ways I agree :)
2252 2011-07-04 19:20:07 <BlueMatt> seriously, how many btc are you going to lose by not mining for 2 secs?
2253 2011-07-04 19:20:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: more like miners whining about network problems
2254 2011-07-04 19:21:02 <BlueMatt> ??
2255 2011-07-04 19:21:07 datagutt has quit (Quit: kthxbai)
2256 2011-07-04 19:21:11 <BlueMatt> oh, na they wont see anything for 2 secs
2257 2011-07-04 19:21:24 TheZimm has joined
2258 2011-07-04 19:21:27 <BlueMatt> who will notice that?
2259 2011-07-04 19:21:30 TheZimm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2260 2011-07-04 19:21:31 <b4epoche_> you're the one that got into dealing with people and their money
2261 2011-07-04 19:21:32 <luke-jr> "OMG longpoll exception!"
2262 2011-07-04 19:21:43 pogden has joined
2263 2011-07-04 19:21:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: they'll timeout
2264 2011-07-04 19:21:54 <BlueMatt> what miner times out after 2 seconds???
2265 2011-07-04 19:21:59 <luke-jr> most it seems
2266 2011-07-04 19:22:05 <BlueMatt> wow, thats shitty
2267 2011-07-04 19:22:18 <luke-jr> or at least, the getwork client that monitors my uptime :P
2268 2011-07-04 19:22:30 <BlueMatt> well thats your fault
2269 2011-07-04 19:22:33 <luke-jr> not really
2270 2011-07-04 19:23:00 <justmoon> maybe the delay should be moved from CheckWork to BitcoinMiner?
2271 2011-07-04 19:23:00 <BlueMatt> yea really
2272 2011-07-04 19:23:05 <wasabi2> I'm curious about this approach to nonce saturation, by updating the time. What benefit does that actually give?
2273 2011-07-04 19:23:12 <wasabi2> That wouldn't be given by just getting more work.
2274 2011-07-04 19:23:13 <justmoon> CheckWork is used by the rpc and the delay makes a lot less sense in that context
2275 2011-07-04 19:23:24 <luke-jr> justmoon: I was thinking more of a bool
2276 2011-07-04 19:23:29 <BlueMatt> justmoon: no, because no one uses BitcoinMiner, but CheckWork is used by everyone
2277 2011-07-04 19:23:43 <luke-jr> when you get/find a block, it sets fReadyToMine to false
2278 2011-07-04 19:23:44 <justmoon> well yeah, that's why I'm suggesting it
2279 2011-07-04 19:23:47 <luke-jr> until it's ready
2280 2011-07-04 19:23:50 <BlueMatt> and you need it whenever you get a new block, now whenever you are cpu mining
2281 2011-07-04 19:23:54 <justmoon> do you need the delay when you use an external miner?
2282 2011-07-04 19:23:58 oozyburglar has joined
2283 2011-07-04 19:24:27 skEwb has joined
2284 2011-07-04 19:24:42 <BlueMatt> for the same reason as when you are using an internal miner
2285 2011-07-04 19:24:57 <BlueMatt> its not about when bitcoin finds a new block from cpumining, its about when it finds a new block itself
2286 2011-07-04 19:25:14 <justmoon> well there is network delay anyway because the miner has to make another call to request more work, no?
2287 2011-07-04 19:25:22 <b4epoche_> wow, exchange rate taking another dump
2288 2011-07-04 19:25:26 <skEwb> i'm having an issue i run bitcoind in daemon mode and i look at nestat and it listens on 8332 and 8333, however when phoenix miner tries to connect it gets a connection rejected
2289 2011-07-04 19:25:44 <b4epoche_> miners must have forgot they needed extra beer/chicks money for the long weekend (in US)
2290 2011-07-04 19:25:49 <skEwb> running on ubuntu server
2291 2011-07-04 19:25:49 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: yea, its on a steady downward track
2292 2011-07-04 19:26:21 <skEwb> any ideas what might cause this? i've changed ssh to different ports and they work, so i know its not a firewall issue
2293 2011-07-04 19:26:28 <diki> ;;bc,stats
2294 2011-07-04 19:26:31 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134762 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 309 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 18 hours, 44 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1585220.75770879
2295 2011-07-04 19:27:15 <justmoon> skEwb, miner running on the same computer?
2296 2011-07-04 19:27:23 <skEwb> nope
2297 2011-07-04 19:27:28 <skEwb> external machine
2298 2011-07-04 19:27:30 <BlueMatt> firewall then
2299 2011-07-04 19:27:36 <skEwb> hmm
2300 2011-07-04 19:27:38 talpan has left ("Verlassend")
2301 2011-07-04 19:27:48 <JackStorm> or bitcoin only listening on localhost
2302 2011-07-04 19:27:53 <skEwb> i look at HyperVM and it says connection refused on 8322
2303 2011-07-04 19:28:01 <skEwb> err
2304 2011-07-04 19:28:02 <skEwb> 8332
2305 2011-07-04 19:28:18 <BlueMatt> is it listening on localhost:8332 or *:8332?
2306 2011-07-04 19:28:26 <skEwb> let me check
2307 2011-07-04 19:29:36 <skEwb> tcp        0      0 localhost.localdom:8332 *:*                     LISTEN
2308 2011-07-04 19:29:36 <skEwb> tcp        0      0 *:8333                  *:*                     LISTEN
2309 2011-07-04 19:29:47 <BlueMatt> you need to change that
2310 2011-07-04 19:29:58 <briareus> 14.40! awesome!
2311 2011-07-04 19:30:20 <BlueMatt> skEwb: -rpcallowip
2312 2011-07-04 19:30:26 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
2313 2011-07-04 19:30:32 <skEwb> on startup?
2314 2011-07-04 19:30:36 <BlueMatt> yea
2315 2011-07-04 19:30:37 <skEwb> lemme try it
2316 2011-07-04 19:31:19 <skEwb> now its
2317 2011-07-04 19:31:20 disq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2318 2011-07-04 19:31:20 <skEwb> tcp        0      0 *:8332                  *:*                     LISTEN
2319 2011-07-04 19:31:20 <skEwb> tcp        0      0 *:8333                  *:*                     LISTEN
2320 2011-07-04 19:31:26 <justmoon> skEwb, should work now then
2321 2011-07-04 19:32:01 <skEwb> im double checking
2322 2011-07-04 19:32:02 <skEwb> tcp        0      0 *:8332                  *:*                     LISTEN
2323 2011-07-04 19:32:02 <skEwb> tcp        0      0 *:8333                  *:*                     LISTEN
2324 2011-07-04 19:32:03 <skEwb> errr
2325 2011-07-04 19:32:08 <skEwb> [04/07/2011 12:29:24] Phoenix 1.50 starting...
2326 2011-07-04 19:32:08 <skEwb> [04/07/2011 12:29:24] Failed to connect, retrying...
2327 2011-07-04 19:32:08 <skEwb> [04/07/2011 12:29:39] Failed to connect, retrying...
2328 2011-07-04 19:32:16 pogden has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2329 2011-07-04 19:32:21 <BlueMatt> you have -rpcallowip=<ip of remote miner>?
2330 2011-07-04 19:32:28 <skEwb> ill try
2331 2011-07-04 19:32:46 <BlueMatt> how about you call bitcoind -help before asking questions...
2332 2011-07-04 19:32:56 <skEwb> im looking at the wiki
2333 2011-07-04 19:33:00 <skEwb> i have all the command line options
2334 2011-07-04 19:33:16 <skEwb> i just dont know why it wont connect, its running and it generates the wallet.dat and database logs and everything
2335 2011-07-04 19:33:17 <justmoon> BlueMatt, you mean bitcoind --help
2336 2011-07-04 19:33:24 <BlueMatt> oh, yea sorry
2337 2011-07-04 19:33:35 <BlueMatt> skEwb: because you didnt allow it to
2338 2011-07-04 19:34:37 erus` has joined
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2348 2011-07-04 19:44:01 <luke-jr> hmm
2349 2011-07-04 19:44:11 <luke-jr> am I wasting my time splitting up this 3diff txt?
2350 2011-07-04 19:44:17 <luke-jr> has someone already done it?
2351 2011-07-04 19:45:13 erus`_ has joined
2352 2011-07-04 19:45:37 <BlueMatt> I think so
2353 2011-07-04 19:45:38 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2354 2011-07-04 19:45:42 erus`_ is now known as erus`
2355 2011-07-04 19:46:03 erus` has quit (Client Quit)
2356 2011-07-04 19:46:09 <BlueMatt> what, out of it, do you want?
2357 2011-07-04 19:47:09 <zapnap> wow, i finally tracked down my os x issue with pushpool.... this is bizarre. not endian at all, it appears that the content-length is one less than it ought to be for some reason. wtf?
2358 2011-07-04 19:47:24 <zapnap> on linux, all is fine
2359 2011-07-04 19:47:27 <zapnap> sooo weird.
2360 2011-07-04 19:48:05 zamgo has joined
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2362 2011-07-04 19:48:59 DaQatz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2363 2011-07-04 19:50:00 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: all of it :P
2364 2011-07-04 19:50:11 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: then why split it up?
2365 2011-07-04 19:50:21 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I like clean git trees :o
2366 2011-07-04 19:50:24 Nexus7 has quit ()
2367 2011-07-04 19:50:28 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
2368 2011-07-04 19:50:40 <luke-jr> and I want to merge different parts at differnet times
2369 2011-07-04 19:50:58 <luke-jr> so I can have a "client version" and a "pool verison"
2370 2011-07-04 19:51:51 shLONG has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2371 2011-07-04 19:52:17 <CIA-103> bitcoin: David Joel Schwartz bugfix_CreateThread_leak * r5bf87ab4daab bitcoind-personal/src/ (net.cpp util.h):
2372 2011-07-04 19:52:17 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Bugfix: Resource leak in CreateThread A tiny bug in CreateThread caused bitcoind
2373 2011-07-04 19:52:17 <CIA-103> bitcoin: to leak address space. This doesn't matter much with the original code because
2374 2011-07-04 19:52:17 <CIA-103> bitcoin: the leak occurs when a thread terminates, and the original code doesn't do that
2375 2011-07-04 19:52:17 <CIA-103> bitcoin: except when it's shutting down. But the hub mode patches and the RPC patches do
2376 2011-07-04 19:52:17 <CIA-103> bitcoin: use dynamic threads. So this fix is needed to prevent address space exhaustion
2377 2011-07-04 19:52:18 <CIA-103> bitcoin: on 32-bit operating systems. http://tinyurl.com/6eu27z4
2378 2011-07-04 19:53:50 aldiyen has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2379 2011-07-04 19:54:00 Hans-Martin has joined
2380 2011-07-04 19:54:05 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: why is your personal bitcoin repo in CIA?
2381 2011-07-04 19:54:29 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: why wouldn't it be?
2382 2011-07-04 19:54:40 jandd_ is now known as jandd
2383 2011-07-04 19:54:44 <luke-jr> better question is why CIA spams the whole stupid commit message
2384 2011-07-04 19:54:48 <luke-jr> rather than the first line
2385 2011-07-04 19:54:48 graingert has joined
2386 2011-07-04 19:54:49 <BlueMatt> because its a personal repo
2387 2011-07-04 19:54:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: as is everything
2388 2011-07-04 19:55:04 <BlueMatt> if you want to put personal repos in there, put up like 20,000 of them
2389 2011-07-04 19:55:09 <BlueMatt> which is too much spam
2390 2011-07-04 19:55:19 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, nothing is a personal repo
2391 2011-07-04 19:55:26 <BlueMatt> unless there is only one person on the project
2392 2011-07-04 19:55:36 <BlueMatt> bitcoin otoh, has many people and a central repo
2393 2011-07-04 19:55:44 <BlueMatt> noone else puts their personal repo on cia
2394 2011-07-04 19:55:49 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: they should
2395 2011-07-04 19:55:54 <luke-jr> I'd be interested to see everyone's commits
2396 2011-07-04 19:55:55 <BlueMatt> no, they shouldnt
2397 2011-07-04 19:55:59 <BlueMatt> its way too spammy
2398 2011-07-04 19:56:03 <BlueMatt> then subscribe on github
2399 2011-07-04 19:56:04 Hans-Martin has left ()
2400 2011-07-04 19:56:04 BitcoinForNewegg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2401 2011-07-04 19:56:09 <luke-jr> Github won't let me
2402 2011-07-04 19:56:11 disq has joined
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2404 2011-07-04 19:56:11 disq has joined
2405 2011-07-04 19:56:12 <BlueMatt> you can watch the repo and pull a feed
2406 2011-07-04 19:56:15 <BlueMatt> then get a damn account there
2407 2011-07-04 19:56:23 <BlueMatt> you dont have to spam everyone with your commits
2408 2011-07-04 19:56:25 <luke-jr> they won't let me unless I promise $$$
2409 2011-07-04 19:56:48 <BlueMatt> you realize they have that only because it is effectively a requirement of the dmca
2410 2011-07-04 19:56:52 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'm not interested in elitist attitude.
2411 2011-07-04 19:56:57 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, it isn't.
2412 2011-07-04 19:57:07 <BlueMatt> yes it is, they arent allowed to say no to a takedown request
2413 2011-07-04 19:57:11 <luke-jr> irrelevant
2414 2011-07-04 19:57:21 <BlueMatt> hence if they get sued its your job to hire lawyers or say fuck it, take it down
2415 2011-07-04 19:57:35 <luke-jr> that's not what their ToS say
2416 2011-07-04 19:57:45 dbasch has joined
2417 2011-07-04 19:57:48 Stellar has joined
2418 2011-07-04 19:57:51 <BlueMatt> alright fine, dont sign up for github, I dont feel like discussing this, but take your spam off of cia
2419 2011-07-04 19:58:07 dbasch has quit (Client Quit)
2420 2011-07-04 19:58:10 <luke-jr> [15:54:43] <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'm not interested in elitist attitude.
2421 2011-07-04 19:58:21 <luke-jr> your commits are no more or less important than anyone else's
2422 2011-07-04 19:58:22 <BlueMatt> how is that elitist?
2423 2011-07-04 19:58:27 <BlueMatt> my commits arent in cia
2424 2011-07-04 19:58:30 <BlueMatt> for a reason
2425 2011-07-04 19:58:34 <luke-jr> s/your/gavin et al's/
2426 2011-07-04 19:58:52 dissipate has joined
2427 2011-07-04 19:58:55 <BlueMatt> no, gavin's arent either, only original client ones are
2428 2011-07-04 19:59:00 <BlueMatt> huge difference
2429 2011-07-04 19:59:08 mtrlt has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2430 2011-07-04 19:59:15 <BlueMatt> its also a big difference in that hundreds of people use that client, where as 1 uses yours
2431 2011-07-04 19:59:23 <BlueMatt> if you have a great commit, good share it please
2432 2011-07-04 19:59:28 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: that was a commit on the original client
2433 2011-07-04 19:59:29 <BlueMatt> but not every damn commit
2434 2011-07-04 19:59:41 <luke-jr> also, you forgot Diablo miner, Intersango, etc
2435 2011-07-04 19:59:45 <BlueMatt> no, that was a commit based on the original client to your repo, meaning it has a target audience of 1
2436 2011-07-04 20:00:39 <BlueMatt> look, Im just saying, unless you have people using your client who care about every commit, take it out of here
2437 2011-07-04 20:00:52 <BlueMatt> as it is only used by one person, and noone else needs to know about it
2438 2011-07-04 20:00:54 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ^
2439 2011-07-04 20:01:41 mtrlt has joined
2440 2011-07-04 20:02:29 <graingert> luke-jr, it would be good to have the latest rc added to the topic
2441 2011-07-04 20:02:46 divergenta has joined
2442 2011-07-04 20:07:21 <midnightmagic> hey, BlueMatt, where are those other hash-migration requests? I did look for them before submitting mine, perhaps my ineptitude re: github was getting in the way.
2443 2011-07-04 20:08:10 dbasch has joined
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2446 2011-07-04 20:12:16 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr signal_blk_notify * rddb68b002bbd bitcoind-personal/src/main.cpp: Send SIGUSR1 to another process when best block changes (-blknotifypidfile option) http://tinyurl.com/5wyl877
2447 2011-07-04 20:13:15 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: I know Ive seen atleast one "we should have a strategy to switch hashes" on github before, but its another one of those topics that many noobs look at bitcoin and come up with...
2448 2011-07-04 20:13:26 <BlueMatt> so it comes up quite often on here
2449 2011-07-04 20:13:31 <BlueMatt> like once a month or so
2450 2011-07-04 20:14:15 <BlueMatt> its a valid point, its just not something that we strictly have to do now
2451 2011-07-04 20:14:30 <BlueMatt> no hash function ever goes from unbroken to 100% broken overnight
2452 2011-07-04 20:14:35 <BlueMatt> so we will have time
2453 2011-07-04 20:14:45 <BlueMatt> plus if it becomes urgent, we can switch hashes pretty damn quick
2454 2011-07-04 20:14:56 <BlueMatt> rolling out a new release takes maybe a couple days
2455 2011-07-04 20:15:31 <zamgo> rolling out, meaning to 51% of network?
2456 2011-07-04 20:16:00 <BlueMatt> no pushing to people
2457 2011-07-04 20:16:06 <BlueMatt> 51% doesnt matter in this case
2458 2011-07-04 20:16:13 <zamgo> ok
2459 2011-07-04 20:16:14 Beccara has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2460 2011-07-04 20:16:19 <BlueMatt> just reasonable so that you can connect to new nodes
2461 2011-07-04 20:16:25 <BlueMatt> and with dnsseeds that becomes easier
2462 2011-07-04 20:16:43 <BlueMatt> in the conf file, I can just say "at least version 0.X to be in dns"
2463 2011-07-04 20:16:46 mosimo has joined
2464 2011-07-04 20:17:01 <BlueMatt> which Ill probably do for 0.3.24, as it fixes sendlimits again
2465 2011-07-04 20:17:11 <luke-jr> erm
2466 2011-07-04 20:17:17 <luke-jr> switching hashes requires at least 51% still
2467 2011-07-04 20:17:42 <BlueMatt> no, if you switch you will just make a fork, that means new blocks after the switch will eventually become invalid
2468 2011-07-04 20:17:55 <BlueMatt> so miners who do switch need to be able to find each other
2469 2011-07-04 20:17:57 <BlueMatt> as do clients
2470 2011-07-04 20:18:02 <luke-jr> or people will reject your switch because it reverses transactions
2471 2011-07-04 20:18:08 <BlueMatt> but 51% is irrelevant as everything on the old hash is bad
2472 2011-07-04 20:18:14 <BlueMatt> no it doesnt
2473 2011-07-04 20:18:20 <luke-jr> if everything on the old hash is bad, so is the history
2474 2011-07-04 20:18:27 <BlueMatt> people will reject your switch...wait WHAT?
2475 2011-07-04 20:18:47 <kinlo> how can I find the blocknumber of an orphan block from the client?  listtransactions does not tell me thsi
2476 2011-07-04 20:18:52 <BlueMatt> you can easily do it w/o reversing/harming history
2477 2011-07-04 20:19:12 <BlueMatt> 10 huge blocks at the beginning of the new hash and you have your whole history again
2478 2011-07-04 20:19:15 netsky has joined
2479 2011-07-04 20:19:23 again has joined
2480 2011-07-04 20:19:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: nobody has dictatorial power over Bitcoin. you can't force people to change to another hash when it harms them by reversing their payments
2481 2011-07-04 20:19:37 netsky is now known as move0
2482 2011-07-04 20:19:39 <BlueMatt> no, it doesnt reverse their payments is my point
2483 2011-07-04 20:19:42 move0 is now known as move9
2484 2011-07-04 20:19:49 <luke-jr> the transactions depend on the hash
2485 2011-07-04 20:19:59 <BlueMatt> <BlueMatt> 10 huge blocks at the beginning of the new hash and you have your whole history again
2486 2011-07-04 20:20:09 <luke-jr> you can't re-sign the history
2487 2011-07-04 20:20:19 <BlueMatt> yes you can
2488 2011-07-04 20:20:24 <luke-jr> not w/o the keys
2489 2011-07-04 20:20:27 <BlueMatt> happens all the time with blockchain reorg
2490 2011-07-04 20:20:39 <luke-jr> blockchain reorg doesn't change the hash
2491 2011-07-04 20:20:41 <BlueMatt> no, but you can say "these are the actually vaid txes with the old hash"
2492 2011-07-04 20:20:52 <luke-jr> and everyone just trusts you?
2493 2011-07-04 20:20:52 <BlueMatt> other than that all old-hash txes are invalid
2494 2011-07-04 20:20:54 dissipate has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2495 2011-07-04 20:21:14 <BlueMatt> ok, fine, its not ideal, and how the fuck do you propose to fix bitcoin is sha256 gets broken?
2496 2011-07-04 20:21:39 <luke-jr> it's basically impossible afaik
2497 2011-07-04 20:21:47 <BlueMatt> but pretty much everyone would trust a combination of gavin, jgarzk, sipa, etc, etc
2498 2011-07-04 20:21:54 <BlueMatt> then that is the way it would be done
2499 2011-07-04 20:22:03 <BlueMatt> its not ideal, but its open and the best way
2500 2011-07-04 20:22:15 Beccara has joined
2501 2011-07-04 20:22:21 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: Have any of the devs heard anything interesting at all regarding whatever the hell mrb_ is talking about?
2502 2011-07-04 20:22:22 <jgarzik> luke-jr: "switching hashes requires at least 51% still"   <<---  no the clients still decide which blocks to relay, or not.  If majority of clients switch to LukeJrHash, but miners fail to follow, the network simply becomes partitioned.
2503 2011-07-04 20:22:40 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: I havent
2504 2011-07-04 20:22:43 <jgarzik> a crazy miner with 90% hash power can still self-select themselves away from the network
2505 2011-07-04 20:22:45 <luke-jr> "everyone in the world would trust a combination of 5-10 random software developers"
2506 2011-07-04 20:23:00 <BlueMatt> a majority would
2507 2011-07-04 20:23:01 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I meant 51% of clients
2508 2011-07-04 20:23:04 nus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2509 2011-07-04 20:23:12 <jgarzik> luke-jr: yes, -that- is true
2510 2011-07-04 20:23:20 <BlueMatt> a majority of people who have been trusting those devs for quite some time
2511 2011-07-04 20:24:01 nus has joined
2512 2011-07-04 20:24:01 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: or trusting the fact that many more people besides them have audited the code to varying degrees
2513 2011-07-04 20:24:01 <BlueMatt> Me and sipa could put a virus in the next version that steals your coins and gives them to us, but people trust that we wont
2514 2011-07-04 20:24:34 <BlueMatt> yea, some people build themselves, but such a huge majority dont, that the minority who do dont really matter
2515 2011-07-04 20:24:49 <BlueMatt> great, everyone else moves to a new hash and system, and you sit in a corner playing with lukejrcoin
2516 2011-07-04 20:24:51 <BlueMatt> have fun
2517 2011-07-04 20:25:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: your idea *might* be possible, if the first version also verified the new block chain against all the old blocks stored on your own computer
2518 2011-07-04 20:25:43 <luke-jr> ie, compared the content, not just the SHA256
2519 2011-07-04 20:25:53 <BlueMatt> you can absolutely do that
2520 2011-07-04 20:26:10 <luke-jr> then you have every Bitcoin 1.0 user verifying the block chain start for 2.0
2521 2011-07-04 20:26:13 <BlueMatt> problem is many people could be compromised by then
2522 2011-07-04 20:26:30 <BlueMatt> but whatever, you get the point
2523 2011-07-04 20:26:33 <jgarzik> My fun idea for proof-of-work algo:  a miner selects a nonce, and uses that as a seed to (a) fill 16MB with random data, and (b) select the order in which a set of hash algos (whirlpool, sha256, skein, and on and on) is executed on that data.  block hash is the end result.
2524 2011-07-04 20:26:33 <luke-jr> afaik you can't re-upload blocks once the client gets it
2525 2011-07-04 20:26:36 <BlueMatt> and Im done discussing
2526 2011-07-04 20:27:07 <BlueMatt> yea you can, reorg
2527 2011-07-04 20:27:13 <luke-jr> jgarzik: don't forget transactions use SHA256 too
2528 2011-07-04 20:27:35 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: chain reorgs don't delete the old blocks afaik
2529 2011-07-04 20:28:15 <BlueMatt> thats right in mem, but Im not sure about on disk
2530 2011-07-04 20:28:15 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: I've updated my request on github; the implication from Gavin is that he hasn't heard anything substantive either. The potential for an order-of-magnitude differential between mining capacity based on an algorithm is troublesome to someone like myself who has invested relatively heavily in mining equipment.
2531 2011-07-04 20:28:19 <jgarzik> luke-jr: chain reorgs orphan blocks, and for new clients they are never seen.  so, deleted for some, not for others.
2532 2011-07-04 20:28:21 <BlueMatt> I dont know at all about on-disk
2533 2011-07-04 20:28:48 <luke-jr> jgarzik: right, so everyone who had Bitcoin 1.0 before the compromise, can verify it
2534 2011-07-04 20:28:53 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: well we will notice if he does do something major ;)
2535 2011-07-04 20:29:10 <luke-jr> actually, crap. they'd still need to trust the "last 1.0" block hash
2536 2011-07-04 20:29:23 <luke-jr> actually, the whole 1.0 chain of hashes
2537 2011-07-04 20:29:24 <BlueMatt> anyway, Im done discussing this, everyone here knows the implications and what would need to be done
2538 2011-07-04 20:29:25 <midnightmagic> god-damned mrb_ anyway.. :(
2539 2011-07-04 20:29:41 <jgarzik> luke-jr: if you want to verify old data, you have to use old [possibly compromised] hash algo, yes
2540 2011-07-04 20:29:52 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: nothing we can do about it
2541 2011-07-04 20:30:25 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: and we wont switch hash algos if someone has found a way to double or triple their hash speed, not worth it
2542 2011-07-04 20:30:39 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: Well, the discussion here is impromtu and informal. I was hoping for codification and/or plan. If devs aren't ready to do that, fine also. But mrb_ isn't just any old douchebag..
2543 2011-07-04 20:30:54 [Tycho] has joined
2544 2011-07-04 20:31:07 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: GPUs made a magnitude of improvement on hashspeed too
2545 2011-07-04 20:31:14 <BlueMatt> no, noone is going to spend their time doing a formal plan for this
2546 2011-07-04 20:31:16 <luke-jr> midnightmagic: it's just normal development of mining
2547 2011-07-04 20:31:38 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: No, and I wouldn't expect you to, but that sort of optimization is often a precursor to further optims, and eventually a break. If it's happening now, for real, that someone can use preimage to speed up hashing, it is a sign the hash isn't as secure as people thought it was.
2548 2011-07-04 20:31:47 <midnightmagic> luke-jr: That's completely different.
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2551 2011-07-04 20:32:16 <BlueMatt> midnightmagic: if we get indication, real, solid indication, maybe someone will spend the time to write it all out and code it, until then, I really highly doubt it
2552 2011-07-04 20:32:49 sytse_ is now known as sytse
2553 2011-07-04 20:32:55 <midnightmagic> BlueMatt: There will be no indication; there's no way to measure it.
2554 2011-07-04 20:33:06 <justmoon> midnightmagic, what are you guys talking about - does somebody claim to have a shortcut on sha256?!
2555 2011-07-04 20:33:07 <jgarzik> midnightmagic: I would be surprised if he could speed up the first, as well as second, sha256.  since we do double-sha256, call that strength 2, maybe he can reduce it to strength 1.5, but 1.0 seems unlikely.
2556 2011-07-04 20:33:12 <jgarzik> < 1.0 seems more unlikely
2557 2011-07-04 20:33:29 <jgarzik> but all crypto is time-based.  it will eventually be broken
2558 2011-07-04 20:33:30 <midnightmagic> justmoon: Yes, ~2x speedup on 5970 putting it to "1GH/s+"
2559 2011-07-04 20:33:30 <BlueMatt> even 1.99 seems unlikely
2560 2011-07-04 20:33:35 <midnightmagic> justmoon:  Just a claim right now.
2561 2011-07-04 20:33:42 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: yes, my point exactly.
2562 2011-07-04 20:33:45 <justmoon> midnightmagic, k thx for the info
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2569 2011-07-04 20:42:43 <midnightmagic> jgarzik: I agree re: time-based, except there do exist reduced-round meet-in-the-middle attacks against sha-2 right now, which mean its preimage resistance is in question. 2 of the 5 finalists, according to Gligoroski in "Narrow-pipe SHA-3 candidates differ significantly from ideal random functions defined over big domains" are not random, which means SHA-3 might not be an upgrade path after the winner is chosen by NIST.
2570 2011-07-04 20:43:01 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: any bug reports for 0.3.24 trickling in?
2571 2011-07-04 20:43:13 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: aside from build problems, not that ive seen
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2574 2011-07-04 20:43:27 <BlueMatt> Ive gotten the windows stuff worked out fine, but linux is posing a bit more of a problem
2575 2011-07-04 20:43:53 <BlueMatt> 9.10 doesnt work as its not quite old enough, but 9.04 isnt in the repos anymore so vmbuilder doesnt work
2576 2011-07-04 20:44:01 <BlueMatt> and gitian doesnt work outside of ubuntu atm
2577 2011-07-04 20:44:24 <BlueMatt> so its either hack up gitian to work on debian or other distro, or screw over old-distro users which I dont want to do
2578 2011-07-04 20:45:16 <BlueMatt> but that might be more of an issue for a later release, as it might take some time to do
2579 2011-07-04 20:45:19 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: comments?
2580 2011-07-04 20:45:28 <midnightmagic> \o Tycho
2581 2011-07-04 20:45:36 <[Tycho]> Hello.
2582 2011-07-04 20:45:40 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you know what I think -- stop building binaries for Linux
2583 2011-07-04 20:46:00 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: and invite the community to start building distro-specific builds and packages
2584 2011-07-04 20:46:05 <BlueMatt> until we can tell people to install wx-2.8 or qt to build, we cant really do that
2585 2011-07-04 20:46:23 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: we can do that right now.  nothing stopping us.
2586 2011-07-04 20:46:26 marioxcc has joined
2587 2011-07-04 20:46:40 <BlueMatt> except for the issue of users not being able to build either...
2588 2011-07-04 20:46:40 <marioxcc> there is no build system bundled with bitcoin?
2589 2011-07-04 20:46:42 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: "build <foo> dependency, version <bar>" is a normal part of build instructions
2590 2011-07-04 20:46:56 <devrandom> BlueMatt: what about using 8.04?
2591 2011-07-04 20:46:57 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: you gotta build a special openssl on fedora already
2592 2011-07-04 20:47:10 <marioxcc> (in the tarball for GNU/Linux)
2593 2011-07-04 20:47:33 <BlueMatt> devrandom: doesnt have db4.7
2594 2011-07-04 20:47:43 <BlueMatt> and we cant really downgrade bdb
2595 2011-07-04 20:47:54 <devrandom> hm...
2596 2011-07-04 20:48:19 <devrandom> and 10.04 is causing libc issues for older distros?
2597 2011-07-04 20:48:33 Strogge has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2598 2011-07-04 20:48:40 <BlueMatt> yea anything but 9.04 doesnt work apparently
2599 2011-07-04 20:48:50 AStove has quit ()
2600 2011-07-04 20:48:51 <BlueMatt> which is what gavin used to use to build
2601 2011-07-04 20:49:11 <marioxcc> how are are supposed to build bitcoin?
2602 2011-07-04 20:49:16 <marioxcc> no configure, no makefiles
2603 2011-07-04 20:49:22 <BlueMatt> there are makefiles
2604 2011-07-04 20:49:39 <marioxcc> oh, true
2605 2011-07-04 20:49:39 <BlueMatt> in src
2606 2011-07-04 20:49:44 <marioxcc> yeah
2607 2011-07-04 20:49:56 <devrandom> BlueMatt: maybe not support older distros?
2608 2011-07-04 20:50:04 <devrandom> or build db4.7 from source on 8.04?
2609 2011-07-04 20:50:39 <SeriousWorm> do any miner devs come around here? specifically I'd like to talk to a phoenix dev / someone who knows a lot about kernels :)
2610 2011-07-04 20:51:07 <BlueMatt> yea I was thinking build bdb4.7 from source on 8.04
2611 2011-07-04 20:51:08 <marioxcc> SeriousWorm: just throw your question, if someone can help he will answer
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2613 2011-07-04 20:51:16 <SeriousWorm> it's kinda technical.
2614 2011-07-04 20:51:28 <BlueMatt> SeriousWorm: Diablo-D3 develops the Diablo miner
2615 2011-07-04 20:51:32 <SeriousWorm> basically I increased the vector dimension from 2 to 4
2616 2011-07-04 20:51:39 <SeriousWorm> I guess a lot of newbies try that.
2617 2011-07-04 20:51:41 <devrandom> SeriousWorm: #bitcoin-mining could be a better forum
2618 2011-07-04 20:51:44 <SeriousWorm> ah, right.
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2622 2011-07-04 20:52:51 <devrandom> BlueMatt: are you trying to get this resolved for 0.3.24 or for 0.4?
2623 2011-07-04 20:53:43 <zapnap> jgarzik: got a quick moment for a pushpool q?
2624 2011-07-04 20:53:59 <jgarzik> zapnap: yes
2625 2011-07-04 20:54:22 <BlueMatt> devrandom: well Id like to have it fixed for 0.3.24, so Ill probably just build bdb from source, but I was just trying everything to not have to do that
2626 2011-07-04 20:55:03 <zapnap> jgarzik: i'm seeing a really odd situation when running on os x... where the reported content-length appears to be off by one. if i do a strlen on the body, i get, for ex, 62, but content-length is being reported as 61, so my json gets truncated. this only happens on os x. it's fine on linux, both tested with same codebase and using pyminer as a client
2627 2011-07-04 20:55:22 <jgarzik> zapnap: that's very strange :)
2628 2011-07-04 20:55:24 <zapnap> can you think of... any reason that might be the case? :p i'm scratching my head.
2629 2011-07-04 20:55:25 <devrandom> BlueMatt: I can try to get a gitian build of bdb in isolation tomorrow...
2630 2011-07-04 20:55:33 <jgarzik> zapnap: no ideas off the top of my head
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2632 2011-07-04 20:55:51 <zapnap> i assume trusting strlen would be a bad idea...
2633 2011-07-04 20:55:57 <BlueMatt> devrandom: well, Ill probably just do it that way tonight and see if its deterministic or not, if its not, well that is something for 0.4, if it is great
2634 2011-07-04 20:56:17 <devrandom> ok
2635 2011-07-04 20:56:33 <diki> jgarzik, what exactly is NPAR?
2636 2011-07-04 20:56:36 <diki> "#define NPAR 32"??
2637 2011-07-04 20:56:45 <devrandom> BlueMatt: as part of the existing build, or as a separte build?
2638 2011-07-04 20:56:45 <zapnap> jgarzik: i guess that was my question, really. i'm not sure why it's happening. it's fixed locally for me by using strlen, but i assume that's a bad idea technically (a patch would not get accepted, in other words)
2639 2011-07-04 20:57:02 <BlueMatt> devrandom: it would be in 0.3.24
2640 2011-07-04 20:57:29 <BlueMatt> or the next rc thereof
2641 2011-07-04 20:57:35 <devrandom> BlueMatt: I mean, are you extending the bitcoin gitian build script or are you creating a separate build script for bdb?
2642 2011-07-04 20:57:53 <BlueMatt> extending
2643 2011-07-04 20:58:00 <devrandom> ok
2644 2011-07-04 20:58:00 <BitcoinForNewegg> is mtgox broken?
2645 2011-07-04 20:58:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> look at market channel
2646 2011-07-04 20:58:18 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: well, re-sha3: DJB thinks pretty lowly of most of the distinguishers people have reported. No hash function is a real random oracle, the fact that you can find some property doesn't mean you've found a useful one.
2647 2011-07-04 20:58:28 <BlueMatt> devrandom: I mean I could, but that is just too complicated for just bitcoin for now
2648 2011-07-04 20:58:34 <BitcoinForNewegg> it seems stuck foing dozens of trades instantly at one price
2649 2011-07-04 20:58:53 marioxcc has left ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
2650 2011-07-04 20:59:12 <zapnap> actually i take that back. the Content-Length header is correct. the strlen of the body_str is just incorrect after the strndup
2651 2011-07-04 20:59:15 <devrandom> BlueMatt: you mean it's too complicated to have a separate build script?
2652 2011-07-04 20:59:29 <coderrr> BitcoinForNewegg, check out mtgoxlive.com
2653 2011-07-04 20:59:40 <BlueMatt> devrandom: yea, I mean its not to complicated, but too much effort
2654 2011-07-04 20:59:52 <zapnap> again, only seems to be an issue on OS X. no idea why.
2655 2011-07-04 21:00:49 <jgarzik> zapnap: maybe there is an issue with C's terminating NUL.  that is a common off-by-one cause.
2656 2011-07-04 21:00:49 again has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2657 2011-07-04 21:00:54 <BitcoinForNewegg> ty coderrr
2658 2011-07-04 21:01:21 <zapnap> jgarzik: sounds likely. just wasn't sure how that'd happen. like i said, been awhile since i've done much c programming so feel free to slap me :)
2659 2011-07-04 21:01:39 <devrandom> BlueMatt: I am hopeful that ar -rD will create deterministic .a archives, but I haven't tried it yet
2660 2011-07-04 21:01:54 <b4epoche_> BitcoinForNewegg:  also:  http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/order-book/#
2661 2011-07-04 21:01:54 <zapnap> jgarzik: also, sent you a pull request (unrelated) for the sha password storage stuff.
2662 2011-07-04 21:02:03 <zapnap> and thanks as always for your help
2663 2011-07-04 21:03:11 <BlueMatt> devrandom: sounds cool, but Ill leave that to you ;)
2664 2011-07-04 21:03:27 <devrandom> BlueMatt: and if that works, just output the .a, .h files from the library gitian build and stick them in the inputs directory for all future bitcoin builds
2665 2011-07-04 21:03:32 <devrandom> BlueMatt: sounds good
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2679 2011-07-04 21:12:15 <CIA-103> bitcoin: David Joel Schwartz threaded_rpc * rc81aee370996 bitcoind-personal/src/ (net.cpp net.h rpc.cpp): support multi-threaded RPC http://tinyurl.com/3swwzkc
2680 2011-07-04 21:12:19 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr threaded_rpc * rcb2915aa9edf bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Implement ThreadSafeRPC and ThreadUnsafeRPC system to allow specific parts to be made thread-safe http://tinyurl.com/45x2e6z
2681 2011-07-04 21:12:23 roconnor has joined
2682 2011-07-04 21:13:01 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: really, do you have to publish those?
2683 2011-07-04 21:13:25 <zapnap> erhmm.... no strndup on os x. heh. i wonder where that function is coming from then?
2684 2011-07-04 21:13:31 <zapnap> didn't realize that wasn't ansi-c
2685 2011-07-04 21:13:35 <BitcoinForNewegg> wouldn't a 3d graph of time versus bid-ask spread be awesome?
2686 2011-07-04 21:13:55 cuddlefish has joined
2687 2011-07-04 21:15:51 <b4epoche_> BitcoinForNewegg:  Is that a feature request for my Bitcoin Trader app?
2688 2011-07-04 21:17:17 <BitcoinForNewegg> sure :)
2689 2011-07-04 21:17:27 <devrandom> BlueMatt: I built bdb manually a couple of times, .o files seem deterministic
2690 2011-07-04 21:18:36 <BlueMatt> devrandom: good to know, Ill put together the right build descriptor and maybe jgarzik will pull the required stuff and tag a 0.3.24rc2 for tomorrow
2691 2011-07-04 21:19:35 rethaw1 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
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2695 2011-07-04 21:21:25 <nido> Is this the right place to ask about compilation problems? I can't seem to find an openssl/ecdsa.h on fedora15 and I am reluctant to repackage it myself
2696 2011-07-04 21:22:03 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: no, but some people appreciate it, and it also serves as an automatic pull request
2697 2011-07-04 21:22:15 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr threaded_rpc * r5e3bcff490db bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Allow at least CreateNewBlock (in getwork) to run in parallel with other JSON-RPC requests http://tinyurl.com/3h3wju9
2698 2011-07-04 21:23:01 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: lol, no that in no way constitutes an automatic pull request, and until you can find one other person besides you who enjoys it, I still say noone does
2699 2011-07-04 21:23:08 <BlueMatt> and it is therefore spam
2700 2011-07-04 21:24:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: not everyone is as ungrateful as you
2701 2011-07-04 21:24:26 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ungrateful for what, spam?
2702 2011-07-04 21:24:28 Anduck has joined
2703 2011-07-04 21:24:30 <Anduck> sup
2704 2011-07-04 21:24:36 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: for my improvements to bitcoind
2705 2011-07-04 21:24:45 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: it's no more spam than any other CIA message
2706 2011-07-04 21:24:47 <Anduck> why is bitcoind eating all the processor?
2707 2011-07-04 21:24:59 <luke-jr> Anduck: because you did -gen=1 or something silly like that?
2708 2011-07-04 21:25:04 <Anduck> no
2709 2011-07-04 21:25:08 <Anduck> i didnt use any attributes
2710 2011-07-04 21:25:12 <Anduck> just ./bitcoind
2711 2011-07-04 21:25:16 <luke-jr> Anduck: at some time in the past?
2712 2011-07-04 21:25:20 <Anduck> nope
2713 2011-07-04 21:25:20 <luke-jr> it remembers
2714 2011-07-04 21:25:23 <Anduck> fresh install
2715 2011-07-04 21:25:30 <luke-jr> oh
2716 2011-07-04 21:25:37 <luke-jr> then it's probably downloading and verifying the block chain
2717 2011-07-04 21:25:47 <Anduck> it uses up all the processor for a while, then for some while it doesn't
2718 2011-07-04 21:25:48 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: no, everyone appreciates improvements to the client, but not if you spam the chan with commits that only apply to you
2719 2011-07-04 21:25:49 <Anduck> ok
2720 2011-07-04 21:25:51 <Anduck> might be that =D
2721 2011-07-04 21:26:15 <Anduck> how to stop it downloading and verifying blockchai?
2722 2011-07-04 21:26:20 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: and no, the cia messages for bitcoin itself are good for people who watch to read each change to bitcoin
2723 2011-07-04 21:26:27 <luke-jr> Anduck: bitcoind stop
2724 2011-07-04 21:26:33 <Anduck> but i wanna keep bitcoind running
2725 2011-07-04 21:26:35 <luke-jr> Anduck: note it's not useful until it does that tohugh
2726 2011-07-04 21:26:42 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I know, at a minimum, me, sipa, jgarzk, tcam, and gavin do
2727 2011-07-04 21:26:46 <Anduck> luke-jr, yeah
2728 2011-07-04 21:26:50 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: and that's what it is: changes to bitcoin
2729 2011-07-04 21:26:59 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: changes to *your* bitcoin
2730 2011-07-04 21:27:04 <Anduck> but for my testing purposes- i wanna keep bitcoind up and answering but not loading blocks
2731 2011-07-04 21:27:11 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: again, I'm not interested in your elitist crap
2732 2011-07-04 21:27:25 <luke-jr> Anduck: then run a testnet in a box
2733 2011-07-04 21:27:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: ok, Ill just ban CIA-103
2734 2011-07-04 21:27:46 <zapnap> jgarzik: fyi, turns out it was a flawed local implementation of strndup, since os x doesn't actually include strndup as part of its core
2735 2011-07-04 21:27:50 <zapnap> i'll send a pull request
2736 2011-07-04 21:27:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: thankfully you don't have that power to abuse
2737 2011-07-04 21:27:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I dont?
2738 2011-07-04 21:27:59 <cuddlefish> luke-jr: he's opped.
2739 2011-07-04 21:28:01 <cuddlefish> run
2740 2011-07-04 21:28:06 <luke-jr> who made that mistake?
2741 2011-07-04 21:28:16 <Anduck> he will not be opped too long if he starts to abuse his powers although
2742 2011-07-04 21:28:34 <Anduck> but: to topic, is it possible to stop bitcoind loading blockchain but still keep it running? =)
2743 2011-07-04 21:28:41 <luke-jr> Anduck: testnet in a box
2744 2011-07-04 21:28:44 <Anduck> i just want the process to run but not use ANY cpu
2745 2011-07-04 21:28:53 <Anduck> hmm
2746 2011-07-04 21:28:57 <luke-jr> Anduck: it doesn't do anything useful if it doesn't have a valid block chain
2747 2011-07-04 21:29:08 <Anduck> hmmm
2748 2011-07-04 21:29:14 <luke-jr> testnet in a box will make its own block chain from scratch I think
2749 2011-07-04 21:29:21 <Anduck> what attributes are needed to do it=?
2750 2011-07-04 21:29:36 <luke-jr> Anduck: I think it's a script
2751 2011-07-04 21:29:42 <luke-jr> Anduck: never used it myself, try Google
2752 2011-07-04 21:29:51 <luke-jr> or maybe someone else here knows
2753 2011-07-04 21:29:52 <Anduck> alrdy am :D ty too
2754 2011-07-04 21:31:09 Sedra- has joined
2755 2011-07-04 21:31:49 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: Has djb put these musing up online somewhere that I could read them too?
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2761 2011-07-04 21:33:47 <nido> does anyone compile bitcon on fedora?
2762 2011-07-04 21:34:20 diki has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2763 2011-07-04 21:34:30 <b4epoche_> can someone please tell me how to make all my commits to CocoaBitcoin spam this channel?
2764 2011-07-04 21:34:33 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2765 2011-07-04 21:34:47 Sedra- is now known as Sedra
2766 2011-07-04 21:34:49 <cuddlefish> b4epoche_: github's commit hooks
2767 2011-07-04 21:35:12 <b4epoche_> can someone please tell me how to use github's commit hooks?
2768 2011-07-04 21:36:11 * b4epoche_ really wants to feel as important as luke-jr...  by announcing everything
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2783 2011-07-04 21:52:12 <coderrr> repatched 'send from address(es) and show address linkages' onto v0.3.24rc1 https://github.com/coderrr/bitcoin/commit/b32016a314bcbb15c97f14c733a8f49d43c5e8b2
2784 2011-07-04 21:52:22 <justmoon> luke-jr, BlueMatt: it's possible to set CIA to only print the first line of each commit - any objections to me setting that up? more info: http://cia.vc/doc/rulesets/  >> Formatter >> lineLimit
2785 2011-07-04 21:52:49 <BlueMatt> justmoon: go right ahead
2786 2011-07-04 21:53:06 <justmoon> kk will take a sec
2787 2011-07-04 21:57:37 eternal1 has joined
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2789 2011-07-04 22:01:43 B0g4r7_ has joined
2790 2011-07-04 22:01:48 <justmoon> ok, testing:
2791 2011-07-04 22:01:57 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r9c58cd8 / lib/rpc/jsonrpcserver.js :
2792 2011-07-04 22:01:57 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Handle getwork with an argument (submitting work).
2793 2011-07-04 22:01:57 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: This is just a stub for now. - http://bit.ly/kVRMsg
2794 2011-07-04 22:02:03 <justmoon> fail.
2795 2011-07-04 22:04:44 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2796 2011-07-04 22:04:47 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
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2800 2011-07-04 22:08:41 devon_hillard has joined
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2807 2011-07-04 22:15:38 <justmoon> ok time for another test
2808 2011-07-04 22:15:46 <CIA-103> Stefan Thomas master * r8111a1b / lib/rpc/jsonrpcserver.js : Sanitize data parameter for getwork. ...
2809 2011-07-04 22:15:53 <justmoon> nice and short
2810 2011-07-04 22:15:55 <justmoon> :)
2811 2011-07-04 22:16:07 <justmoon> hmm
2812 2011-07-04 22:16:20 <justmoon> but now it doesn't show the project name anymore...
2813 2011-07-04 22:16:45 <justmoon> or the url
2814 2011-07-04 22:17:29 <justmoon> the project name is easy to add, the url could be tricky though, since github seems to just deliver it as part of the commit message if I interpret this correctly
2815 2011-07-04 22:17:59 peterpansen_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2816 2011-07-04 22:18:50 <devrandom> BlueMatt: https://github.com/devrandom/bdb-release - gitian build for bdb
2817 2011-07-04 22:18:56 jzknight has joined
2818 2011-07-04 22:18:56 <devrandom> I'll have a build report shortly
2819 2011-07-04 22:19:00 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
2820 2011-07-04 22:19:02 pmazur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2821 2011-07-04 22:19:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134787 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 284 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 15 hours, 7 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1589533.82211305
2822 2011-07-04 22:19:11 jondoe has joined
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2824 2011-07-04 22:19:17 <MrSam> http://www.triplemining.com/pool_stats
2825 2011-07-04 22:19:17 <MrSam> bleh
2826 2011-07-04 22:19:23 pirrr has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2827 2011-07-04 22:19:23 <MrSam> didn't get to 50 :/
2828 2011-07-04 22:19:44 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,stats
2829 2011-07-04 22:19:46 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134787 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 284 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 15 hours, 7 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1589533.82211305
2830 2011-07-04 22:21:15 <BlueMatt> devrandom: oh, ok, well Im gonna finish working out boost stuff for bitcoin for hardy and Ill go try than and merge it to get it put in bitcoin repo with the rest of them before 0.3.24
2831 2011-07-04 22:21:17 again has joined
2832 2011-07-04 22:21:21 <BlueMatt> (if you dont mind)
2833 2011-07-04 22:21:22 <MrSam> no one here that could spare 5ghz ? :)
2834 2011-07-04 22:22:09 <rethaw> ;;calc (1589533.82211305-1379192.2882281) / 1379192.2882281
2835 2011-07-04 22:22:10 <gribble> (1,589,533.82211305 - 1,379,192.2882281) / 1,379,192.2882281 = 0.152510666
2836 2011-07-04 22:23:35 cuddlefish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2837 2011-07-04 22:24:31 <justmoon> re: CIA - project name added back in, working on url
2838 2011-07-04 22:24:52 <BlueMatt> justmoon: awsome, thanks
2839 2011-07-04 22:25:36 <justmoon> thank me if I get working, not convinced their scripting language is powerful enough to extract the url out of the msg :/
2840 2011-07-04 22:26:09 marioxcc has joined
2841 2011-07-04 22:26:10 <marioxcc> hello
2842 2011-07-04 22:26:22 <marioxcc> what does blkindex.data holds?
2843 2011-07-04 22:26:25 pmazur has joined
2844 2011-07-04 22:26:29 <spq> what do you think about pgp signed btc adresses - imagine the unpossible: an exchange getting hacked ;) - the hackers could easily modify the website code to always show their bitcoin addresses instead of the addresses of the exchange - with any kind of signature it would be possible to detect that
2845 2011-07-04 22:26:31 <marioxcc> I get things like
2846 2011-07-04 22:26:32 <marioxcc> key: 27478004b7831f6f406c23ffffffcb7d1d9ffffff90ffffffd56f39107fffffffebffffffe8ffffffc9ffffff82ffffffa5fffffff75affffff87254143ffffffea
2847 2011-07-04 22:26:33 <marioxcc> value: ffffffc87d0010007114fffffff58fffffff11afffffff5821000ffffffc048fffffff58ffffffb55cfffffff581000ffffffc048fffffff58ffffffb55cfffffff58
2848 2011-07-04 22:26:34 <marioxcc> in a dump
2849 2011-07-04 22:27:41 <spq> marioxcc: its a bdb file
2850 2011-07-04 22:28:13 <marioxcc> spq: indeed, and that's the hex of a record
2851 2011-07-04 22:28:28 <marioxcc> what does it means?
2852 2011-07-04 22:28:31 <spq> dont know exactly but i think it contains references to blocks and transactions
2853 2011-07-04 22:28:32 Neskia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2854 2011-07-04 22:28:45 <spq> because the blk0001.dat(eg) is badly designed for fast lookup
2855 2011-07-04 22:28:53 Nesetalis has joined
2856 2011-07-04 22:28:53 pusle has quit ()
2857 2011-07-04 22:29:02 <spq> and lookup of a given hash is regularly required
2858 2011-07-04 22:29:27 <marioxcc> thanks, but i'm asking of the meaning of this data
2859 2011-07-04 22:29:59 Glasswlkr has joined
2860 2011-07-04 22:30:04 <marioxcc> per se, it don't looks like an bare offset
2861 2011-07-04 22:30:27 <BlueMatt> devrandom: hm, well you know what, wx wont build on hardy...so now Im pretty much sol, older versions wont work, and newer versions arent in the repo and cant be used...
2862 2011-07-04 22:30:31 <marioxcc> I will look in the code (yuck)
2863 2011-07-04 22:30:42 erus` has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])
2864 2011-07-04 22:31:15 <devrandom> BlueMatt: ugh
2865 2011-07-04 22:32:11 peterpansen_ has joined
2866 2011-07-04 22:32:20 <marioxcc> that happens when you use ubuntu
2867 2011-07-04 22:33:42 Glasswalker has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2868 2011-07-04 22:33:47 puhc has joined
2869 2011-07-04 22:33:51 <BlueMatt> and if I had used another distro, it would be even further incompatible with users who use ubuntu, which something like 90% do
2870 2011-07-04 22:34:23 <nido> how's debian for bitcoin?
2871 2011-07-04 22:34:35 <sturles> Good.
2872 2011-07-04 22:34:35 <BlueMatt> works fine afaik
2873 2011-07-04 22:34:39 <marioxcc> nido: it works
2874 2011-07-04 22:34:42 <BlueMatt> bitcoind is even in the repos
2875 2011-07-04 22:34:49 <nido> cool!
2876 2011-07-04 22:35:14 <marioxcc> BlueMatt: so then use Windows, even more dorks use windows
2877 2011-07-04 22:35:18 <nido> I found the ecdsa parts of openssl aren't in fedora, so i'm putting debian in an vm
2878 2011-07-04 22:35:39 kish has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2879 2011-07-04 22:35:56 <BlueMatt> marioxcc: thats an entirely different problem, but I said Im using ubuntu to build bitcoin, not strictly on anything specific
2880 2011-07-04 22:36:10 kish has joined
2881 2011-07-04 22:36:21 <BlueMatt> nido: yep, you have to build ossl yourself, they rip it out due to patent concerns
2882 2011-07-04 22:36:32 <BlueMatt> (on fedora)
2883 2011-07-04 22:36:38 devon_hillard_ has joined
2884 2011-07-04 22:36:45 sneak has quit (Quit: leaving)
2885 2011-07-04 22:36:45 devon_hillard_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2886 2011-07-04 22:36:52 <nido> BlueMatt: indeed. openssl isn't something i'd want to maintain on my systems. I'll trust upstream on that
2887 2011-07-04 22:37:01 sneak has joined
2888 2011-07-04 22:37:02 sneak has quit (Changing host)
2889 2011-07-04 22:37:02 sneak has joined
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2891 2011-07-04 22:38:44 <marioxcc>         // Clear and free memory
2892 2011-07-04 22:38:44 <marioxcc>         memset(datValue.get_data(), 0, datValue.get_size());
2893 2011-07-04 22:38:44 <marioxcc>         free(datValue.get_data());
2894 2011-07-04 22:38:47 <marioxcc> db.h: 87
2895 2011-07-04 22:38:52 <marioxcc> ???
2896 2011-07-04 22:39:16 <BlueMatt> lol, like any of us pay attention
2897 2011-07-04 22:39:16 <BlueMatt> though I suppose that only effects windows and mac users due to how bitcoin is built
2898 2011-07-04 22:39:18 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2899 2011-07-04 22:40:00 <gmaxwell> marioxcc: whats the ??? for?
2900 2011-07-04 22:40:24 Breign has quit ()
2901 2011-07-04 22:40:26 <nido> zeroing out data before freeing makes sense for sensitive data
2902 2011-07-04 22:41:10 <BlueMatt> that can be sensitive data, you are reading things from db
2903 2011-07-04 22:41:12 <BlueMatt> including privkeys
2904 2011-07-04 22:41:13 <devrandom> BlueMatt: I think that standardizing on a 10.04 build is good enough for the vast majority of users
2905 2011-07-04 22:41:40 <devrandom> BlueMatt: users on older distros can probably build manually
2906 2011-07-04 22:41:57 sneak has quit (Client Quit)
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2910 2011-07-04 22:42:43 <BlueMatt> devrandom: yea, I was just writing up an explanation as to why the builds for 8.04 etc will no longer be provided
2911 2011-07-04 22:43:02 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: ping
2912 2011-07-04 22:43:09 lorenzoIT has joined
2913 2011-07-04 22:43:16 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: ?
2914 2011-07-04 22:43:22 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: want to do rc2 tonight?
2915 2011-07-04 22:43:22 <justmoon> ok, another test - this one might print the url twice:
2916 2011-07-04 22:43:23 <denisx> does bitcoin only connect to addnodes at start or also later?
2917 2011-07-04 22:43:31 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r9b98ea4 / lib/checkpoints.js : Added latest checkpoint a 134444. - http://bit.ly/m0TwEl https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/9b98ea419a4ee4ccc8336c689d8d13390b641e88
2918 2011-07-04 22:43:40 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: what is there, besides gavin's block chain lockin?
2919 2011-07-04 22:43:50 <justmoon> hmm :|
2920 2011-07-04 22:43:57 <jgarzik> justmoon: ?
2921 2011-07-04 22:44:16 <gmaxwell> denisx: only at start right now.
2922 2011-07-04 22:44:22 <justmoon> jgarzik, we had a kerfuffle about the bot being to spammy so I'm writing a ruleset to make it print only the first line for each commit message
2923 2011-07-04 22:44:32 <justmoon> too*
2924 2011-07-04 22:44:39 <gmaxwell> denisx: if they get disconnected they're like any other nodes in addr.dat as far as I can tell.
2925 2011-07-04 22:44:45 <jgarzik> I don't think the bot is too spammy
2926 2011-07-04 22:44:50 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: Im gonna submit a bunch of stuff thats the build stuff to be put in the repo, and let people test the updates to the win32 builds, also gavin wanted https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/379 and I say either https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/378 or some nMinVersion in wallet is strictly necessary
2927 2011-07-04 22:44:56 <jgarzik> even showing luke-jr's commits here is just fine with me
2928 2011-07-04 22:45:01 <jgarzik> it shows community work
2929 2011-07-04 22:45:23 <gim> hmm what's the current boost version requirement?
2930 2011-07-04 22:45:29 <jgarzik> though calling them an implicit pull request is the height of silliness
2931 2011-07-04 22:45:37 <jgarzik> luke-jr, BlueMatt: ^^
2932 2011-07-04 22:45:45 <justmoon> jgarzik, well, it looks like I'm not going to succeed anyway, so I'll probably revert to the old settings in a minute here
2933 2011-07-04 22:45:49 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: it absolutely can get spammy sometimes if you are trying to discuss something and there are suddenly 10 lines of commit stuff
2934 2011-07-04 22:46:29 <jgarzik> <shrug>  sometimes you're trying to discuss something, and then xelister or Diablo-D3 speaks
2935 2011-07-04 22:46:31 <jgarzik> same diff
2936 2011-07-04 22:46:43 <justmoon> woah, burn
2937 2011-07-04 22:46:53 <BlueMatt> whatever, justmoon fixed it
2938 2011-07-04 22:47:24 <justmoon> BlueMatt, not really - it now shows the long url instead of the shortened one, and for single line commit messages it shows the url twice
2939 2011-07-04 22:47:55 <jgarzik> I'd just say that CIA* should avoid showing merge commits.  Other than that, CIA is probably the less spammy than IRC join/quit notifications
2940 2011-07-04 22:47:57 <BlueMatt> justmoon: hey, in one message that is 100x better than it used to be
2941 2011-07-04 22:48:06 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: you know you can hide those
2942 2011-07-04 22:48:15 <justmoon> BlueMatt, I'll leave that up to you and jeff then
2943 2011-07-04 22:48:25 <BlueMatt> meh, looks fine to me
2944 2011-07-04 22:48:31 <BlueMatt> much better than it was
2945 2011-07-04 22:48:51 erus` has joined
2946 2011-07-04 22:49:24 lorenzoIT has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2947 2011-07-04 22:49:45 <justmoon> jgarzik, BlueMatt, you can toggle the old way and the new way at any time by switching between "Filter by project" and "Custom filter" on the bot's main settings page
2948 2011-07-04 22:50:26 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: what is the behavior of 0.3.20 with encrypted wallet.dat?
2949 2011-07-04 22:50:41 Diablo-D3 has joined
2950 2011-07-04 22:50:42 noagendamarket has joined
2951 2011-07-04 22:50:50 noagenda_ has joined
2952 2011-07-04 22:50:50 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: cant test on this machine, why would it be different than 0.3.22?
2953 2011-07-04 22:50:57 <erus`> can someone send me some testnet BTC please? mx8q7e31ZgYMjHzYLXDgXf3g6LXiQJUhPQ
2954 2011-07-04 22:51:05 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I was picking a random version.  what is the behavior of 0.3.22?
2955 2011-07-04 22:51:35 <gim> erus`: http://testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com/
2956 2011-07-04 22:51:37 <jgarzik> erus`: https://testnet.freebitcoins.appspot.com/
2957 2011-07-04 22:51:49 <BlueMatt> "In version 0.3.22 (and I'd assume prior versions as well), Bitcoin opens fine and displays transactions, however shows a total balance of what is help only in unencrypted keys (of which it also writes a minimum of one before opening), and each transaction shows only confirmation count,
2958 2011-07-04 22:51:49 <BlueMatt> date, no description, and a debit/credit of 0.00.  When you try to perform any action which attempts to read keypool, you get the "ReserveKeyFromKeyPool() : unknown key in key pool" error."
2959 2011-07-04 22:52:11 <BlueMatt> "In version 0.3.23, Bitcoin dies with "ReserveKeyFromKeyPool() : unknown key in key pool" after writing one unencrypted private key to the (otherwise) encrypted wallet."
2960 2011-07-04 22:52:29 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: what about the suggestion to use nMinVersion or somesuch, to get < 0.3.24 to shit themselves in a predictable way?
2961 2011-07-04 22:52:33 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2962 2011-07-04 22:53:21 <BlueMatt> currently, the only way to get <0.3.24 to freak out would be to fill something like fGenerateBitcoins with a non-int but I havent tested that so Im not sure it will work
2963 2011-07-04 22:53:27 Gonzago has joined
2964 2011-07-04 22:53:32 <erus`> this android bitcoin wallet is burning up my phone :P
2965 2011-07-04 22:53:46 <BlueMatt> other than read errors, there are no return false;s in LoadWallet()
2966 2011-07-04 22:54:14 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2967 2011-07-04 22:54:40 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: an nMinVersion is just for >=0.3.24
2968 2011-07-04 22:55:47 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: basically, I don't see a -lot- of value in #378, because we must consider the case of behavior w/out #378 anyway.  so adding #378 simply creates three possibilities to deal with (+enc, -enc +378, and -enc) rather than just two (+enc, -enc)
2969 2011-07-04 22:56:11 <jgarzik> I'd rather just find a uniform behavior across all -enc versions
2970 2011-07-04 22:56:24 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: 378 has nothing to do with now, it is simply for future similar changes
2971 2011-07-04 22:56:26 <BlueMatt> (and now)
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2973 2011-07-04 22:56:42 Fairuser is now known as Fairuser|AFK
2974 2011-07-04 22:56:54 <BlueMatt> 378 solves the problem entirely, and Id prefer a solution over consistency across previous releases anytime
2975 2011-07-04 22:57:53 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: re:379 <gavinandresen> BlueMatt: I think it is critical enough (and safe enough) that it should be in 0.3.24.
2976 2011-07-04 22:58:55 TruthTaco is now known as BTC
2977 2011-07-04 22:59:22 BTC is now known as TruthTaco
2978 2011-07-04 22:59:40 TruthTaco is now known as BTC
2979 2011-07-04 22:59:46 BTC is now known as TruthTaco
2980 2011-07-04 23:00:08 <sneak> hi
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2982 2011-07-04 23:02:18 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/380
2983 2011-07-04 23:02:56 TruthTaco is now known as MtGox
2984 2011-07-04 23:03:00 MtGox is now known as TruthTaco
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2989 2011-07-04 23:04:19 <bx_> Hey calling all web devs pm me if you're interested in working on a few bitcoin projects with me and my team, Thanks!
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2998 2011-07-04 23:19:40 <knotwork> I forked bitcoin-qt as https://github.com/knotwork/bitcoin-qt to make groupcoin-qt but didnt see a rename option
2999 2011-07-04 23:20:16 <knotwork> now I want to fork bitcoin-qt again as something else again, but last time i tried to fork it a second time nothing seemed to happen
3000 2011-07-04 23:20:48 <knotwork> was that maybe simply because my existing fork had not at that time changed any so system figured I already have a pristine fork
3001 2011-07-04 23:20:49 DoomDum is now known as DoomDumas
3002 2011-07-04 23:22:22 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25804.0  < made for you, — vanity address generator that uses pid+time as the search starting point.
3003 2011-07-04 23:22:27 jav__ has joined
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3005 2011-07-04 23:30:22 <gim> mmm, so this generator has already been patched by a debian dev? :)
3006 2011-07-04 23:32:33 <MrSam> hmm
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3009 2011-07-04 23:36:31 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Matt Corallo master * rfa105b1 / (8 files in 4 dirs): Added a couple minor things to match newer build process. ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/fa105b1d3a055e076a78674b96d0e9b859dfe5b2
3010 2011-07-04 23:36:31 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r06c903b / (8 files in 4 dirs): Merge pull request #380 from TheBlueMatt/buildupdates ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/06c903b26c5e64f481858464a0615d43c427a32e
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3020 2011-07-04 23:54:47 <b4epoche_> for your amusement:  http://www.panic.com/blog/2011/07/yay-fireworks-2011/
3021 2011-07-04 23:54:52 <makomk> gmaxwell: I'm hoping whoever created it is mistaken about that part...
3022 2011-07-04 23:55:17 <gmaxwell> makomk: What do you mean by that?
3023 2011-07-04 23:55:49 <makomk> They're using standard OpenSSL functions.
3024 2011-07-04 23:56:34 <gmaxwell> oh, dur. yea, then its fin.
3025 2011-07-04 23:56:36 <gmaxwell> er fine.
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