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41 2011-07-06 00:29:09 <b4epoche> grey and blue, this is a depressing group
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52 2011-07-06 00:41:01 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: did I mention that -rc3 was tagged? I forget.
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55 2011-07-06 00:42:00 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yes, building now...though I fucked up the gitian file (again), so its on run 2...damn cp same file onto itself
56 2011-07-06 00:42:16 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: cool, np
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61 2011-07-06 00:44:29 <BlueMatt> speaking of which, its just finishing up should be on the list in a couple minutes (assuming nothing bad happens in the final stretch)
62 2011-07-06 00:44:44 <genjix> anyone know a way i can use enum class to do this: http://ideone.com/CqYRz so that I don't need that workaround and can do myenum enum = myenum::foo?
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72 2011-07-06 01:00:51 <egecko> wow, to say bitoption.org is sparse is a bit of an understatement
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74 2011-07-06 01:01:17 <egecko> who the hell is writing the options? they got unrealistic strikes for later out this year
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77 2011-07-06 01:01:38 <egecko> oops wrong channel :)
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89 2011-07-06 01:09:39 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: and yea, blockchain nightles had been frozen for some time now (thats what happens when you change internal ips...) running an upload now which should fix it
90 2011-07-06 01:09:50 <BlueMatt> thanks for the heads up
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127 2011-07-06 01:44:06 <sacarlson> I was thinking about mergeing with bitcoin-qt anyone tried this?
128 2011-07-06 01:44:58 <sacarlson> it seems there code in base of bitcoin is a bit far out
129 2011-07-06 01:45:06 <sacarlson> of date I should say
130 2011-07-06 01:45:46 <sacarlson> or just has so many differences I can't find a simple method to merge yet
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132 2011-07-06 01:47:43 <yebyen> ;;bc,calc 200000000
133 2011-07-06 01:47:44 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 8 hours, 13 minutes, and 37 seconds
134 2011-07-06 01:47:51 <yebyen> ;;bc,calc 200000
135 2011-07-06 01:47:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 200000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 48 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 12 minutes, and 8 seconds
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152 2011-07-06 02:15:03 <AlonzoTG> the comments in my implementation of the bitcoin protocol could probably be sub-titled "the exploits of Bozo the Clown".
153 2011-07-06 02:15:07 <AlonzoTG> =\
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155 2011-07-06 02:15:28 <AlonzoTG> For example, instead of using network byte order like a good protocol should, everything is in little-endian. =\
156 2011-07-06 02:15:39 <AlonzoTG> And that's just one example.
157 2011-07-06 02:15:42 <AlonzoTG> =\
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174 2011-07-06 02:36:40 <AlonzoTG> ugh,
175 2011-07-06 02:36:48 <AlonzoTG> most of the code for this beastie was put in the HEADERS. =(
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178 2011-07-06 02:39:14 <gmaxwell> AlonzoTG: nah, it's not most of the code by far. This is also a normal and accepted practice for C++. (I think it's oboxious too, but it's certantly not something unique to bitcoin)
179 2011-07-06 02:40:03 <AlonzoTG> You should only do it if it's: A) inline, B) seldom #included, C) performance critical.
180 2011-07-06 02:40:31 <AlonzoTG> Yeah, C++ implementations suck balls next to Java but that's how the shit gets done.
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183 2011-07-06 02:42:09 <gmaxwell> Well a lot of the stuff is little helpful functions which can be performance critical. And the compiler _will_ inline it, of course. Seldom included isn't really much of an issue compared to the hideously slow compiles the boost template crap causes.
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185 2011-07-06 02:43:08 <AlonzoTG> I'll have to look into that but I'm implementing my own Bitcoin daemon, It will be written to my exacting standards.
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188 2011-07-06 02:45:41 <midnightmagic> I like how you capitalise "It"
189 2011-07-06 02:45:49 <midnightmagic> Say It with authority!
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217 2011-07-06 03:13:21 <AlonzoTG> warez da kode for the command strings?
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219 2011-07-06 03:14:36 <AlonzoTG> OMFG!!! I found something smart in the API!!!!
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222 2011-07-06 03:15:59 <AlonzoTG> MOTHER OF GOD!!! WHAT HORROR!!!
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237 2011-07-06 03:29:12 is now known as Netsniper|!~se@adsl-76-251-228-251.dsl.ipltin.sbcglobal.net|Netsniper
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250 2011-07-06 03:47:29 <grbgout> Does an account not appear in listaccounts until after it has received some BTC?
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258 2011-07-06 04:00:40 <gmaxwell> grbgout: no, thats a bug. I believe the pull with the account fixes fixes that.
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262 2011-07-06 04:04:04 <grbgout> gmaxwell: er, so the accounts I just created with btcd getnewaddress "Non-existant Account" are not associated with any account? I didn't see the account listed in listaccounts.
263 2011-07-06 04:04:54 <apr> how many confirmations are required for a block to go from "immature" to mature?
264 2011-07-06 04:04:55 <gmaxwell> grbgout: I expect they'll show up after you restart bitcoin.
265 2011-07-06 04:05:02 <apr> and when it's mature, can you assume it's not "invalid" as suc?
266 2011-07-06 04:05:06 <apr> s/suc/such/;
267 2011-07-06 04:05:15 <gmaxwell> apr: "immature" is a status shown on newly generated bitcoin.
268 2011-07-06 04:05:41 <grbgout> gmaxwell: ah, and it's safe to use the addresses of course?
269 2011-07-06 04:05:43 <apr> right, so is it always immature until it's used in a transaction? or until after a set number of confirmations?
270 2011-07-06 04:05:53 <gmaxwell> It's already in a block but it's immature for 120 blocks to avoid issues caused by coin being lost after a block is invalidated.
271 2011-07-06 04:06:07 <apr> aha
272 2011-07-06 04:06:14 <gmaxwell> grbgout: Yes, as far as I can tell.
273 2011-07-06 04:06:49 <apr> thanks! and one more quick thing, how does a block become / get invalidated? can it be found out before waiting for it to mature? are all matured blocks definatly valid?
274 2011-07-06 04:06:52 <grbgout> gmaxwell: cool, thanks.
275 2011-07-06 04:08:19 <gmaxwell> apr: a block is invalidated if it doesn't become part of the longest chain. _Normally_ this would happen within two blocks of its creation. But, for example, if you got disconnected from the internet and mined on your own for a while you wouldn't notice the blocks you created while disconnected were invalidated until you rejoined the network and found out that there were many more blocks not based on yours out there.
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277 2011-07-06 04:09:05 <apr> gmaxwell: aha, so a pool pays out before the block is normally "matured", but, after X blocks have followed?
278 2011-07-06 04:09:25 <apr> assuming the pool has the funds to cover the payout before matureity etc
279 2011-07-06 04:09:33 <gmaxwell> apr: depends on the pool.
280 2011-07-06 04:09:53 <apr> yes :) but i mean, as in maturity is not linked to validation right? :P
281 2011-07-06 04:10:05 <gmaxwell> Deepbit pays out prematurely. I think everyone else doesn't pay out until maturity. Eligius pays you directly in the generated block.
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283 2011-07-06 04:11:09 <gmaxwell> apr: I'm not following you. A block is considered mature when there are 120 blocks after it in the chain. There won't be blocks after it if other nodes don't consider it valid (because they won't extend a chain they don't consider valid and the best)
284 2011-07-06 04:11:10 <apr> kk sorry 1 hopefully last question, if a block is made invalid also, does this make the 'transaction' change from immature to "invalid" ? or similar? or is the transaction rejected before this?
285 2011-07-06 04:12:13 <apr> gmaxwell: I think I get it now, that validity and maturity are completely different thing :) just trying to figure out, when i generate a new block, and i get a tx in bitcoin, how to decide, if it's valid or not from just the 'gettransactions'
286 2011-07-06 04:12:17 <gmaxwell> The generated bitcoin (the 'immature' stuff) becomes hidden if the block becomes invalid (or also/better called orphaned). There is a patch to show those in list transaction as 'invalid'
287 2011-07-06 04:13:18 <apr> aha where can i find this patch?
288 2011-07-06 04:15:43 <apr> (e.g. does latest github have it included?)
289 2011-07-06 04:17:49 <gmaxwell> apr: hmph. I can't find it now.
290 2011-07-06 04:18:07 <gmaxwell> (it's not one I run, but I doubt I imagined it)
291 2011-07-06 04:19:35 <apr> kk ty i'll search for it, or, by the sounds of it it cant be a hard patch to rewrite - worse case i'll rewrite it
292 2011-07-06 04:19:38 <apr> thanks guys :)
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296 2011-07-06 04:24:08 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,blocks
297 2011-07-06 04:24:09 <gribble> 134965
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299 2011-07-06 04:26:52 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,blocks
300 2011-07-06 04:26:55 <gribble> 134965
301 2011-07-06 04:27:06 <jrmithdobbs> gribble is behind by 3 blocks
302 2011-07-06 04:27:09 <jrmithdobbs> wtf
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304 2011-07-06 04:29:29 <nanotube> jrmithdobbs: gribble pulls from bbe
305 2011-07-06 04:29:35 <nanotube> so bbe is behind :)
306 2011-07-06 04:31:12 <da2ce7> ey, nanotube, we should really be starting to think about a distributed bbe system. So if/when bbe goes down it dosn't take down everything with it.
307 2011-07-06 04:31:35 <nanotube> da2ce7: well, every bitcoin client has the potential to be a bbe
308 2011-07-06 04:31:40 <nanotube> since they all have the blockchain
309 2011-07-06 04:31:44 <da2ce7> yep
310 2011-07-06 04:31:50 <nanotube> just need to add the gui to the client to explore the chain
311 2011-07-06 04:31:58 <nanotube> and maybe add a few more indexes to the db
312 2011-07-06 04:32:40 manifold_ has joined
313 2011-07-06 04:33:59 <Sami345> What is BBE?
314 2011-07-06 04:36:00 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
315 2011-07-06 04:36:21 <nanotube> blockexplorer.com
316 2011-07-06 04:36:34 <nanotube> (the first b stands for the omitted 'bitcoin'
317 2011-07-06 04:36:34 <nanotube> )
318 2011-07-06 04:37:30 manifold_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
319 2011-07-06 04:39:04 FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
320 2011-07-06 04:39:26 <ThomasV> blockexplorer should charge users a fee for access to the blockchain ...
321 2011-07-06 04:39:58 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
322 2011-07-06 04:40:04 <ThomasV> perhaps have a "premium account" service
323 2011-07-06 04:42:03 <Sami345> I think there is something wrong with block 134966
324 2011-07-06 04:42:22 <jrmithdobbs> why
325 2011-07-06 04:42:44 <jrmithdobbs> 'wrong' or just something bbe doesn't understand
326 2011-07-06 04:42:49 <jrmithdobbs> because that's two very different things
327 2011-07-06 04:43:34 <Sami345> I think there is something strange in it
328 2011-07-06 04:43:43 <Sami345> Because bbe doesn't understand it
329 2011-07-06 04:44:09 <jrmithdobbs> looks like it understands it fine to me
330 2011-07-06 04:44:28 <jrmithdobbs> just a bunch of shitty bitdust spam in it
331 2011-07-06 04:44:42 <jrmithdobbs> and some laundering fun
332 2011-07-06 04:45:12 <jrmithdobbs> this is why we can't have nice things: http://blockexplorer.com/tx/083f70208dc5cdddfc1d6a0d8201790558a99a59c59dc311c4cb6b307ee9bede
333 2011-07-06 04:45:25 <jrmithdobbs> (aka, why required fees for shit txns are a good thing)
334 2011-07-06 04:47:15 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r1dc8116 / (lib/bitcoin.js package.json): Version bump to 0.0.6. (+13 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/pP99xL https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/1dc811635440a2e15e717259d8439d2c6be91efb
335 2011-07-06 04:51:32 nemesis51 has quit ()
336 2011-07-06 04:52:56 <kunnis> jrmithdobbs Yeah... *wonders what that person is doing* look at http://blockexplorer.com/address/18qr2srETSvQq4kP7yBYRqQ4LzmjhtRmcD
337 2011-07-06 04:54:25 <jrmithdobbs> kunnis: looks pretty obviously to me
338 2011-07-06 04:54:27 <diki> i am still wondering...jgarzik's miner should only submit if hash < target
339 2011-07-06 04:54:37 <kunnis> jrmithdobbs I don't get it..
340 2011-07-06 04:54:37 <diki> well...all the hashes it sends are within a few seconds and rejected
341 2011-07-06 04:54:53 <diki> for solo at diff 1.3 mills ofc
342 2011-07-06 04:55:19 <jrmithdobbs> kunnis: looks like a pool payout address, as soon as he pays out he distributes it out to a bunch of different addresses, probably for laundering-type reasons thinking he's smart (but isn't) etc
343 2011-07-06 04:55:45 <kunnis> Ahh... I wouldn't mind a payout system like that.
344 2011-07-06 04:55:52 <jrmithdobbs> why
345 2011-07-06 04:55:54 <kunnis> so I don't have to worry about getting a payout
346 2011-07-06 04:56:06 <kunnis> I don't have to go to a website and hit a payout button
347 2011-07-06 04:56:10 <jgarzik> diki: "jgarzik's miner should only submit if hash < target" <-- that is an incorrect assumption
348 2011-07-06 04:56:10 <jrmithdobbs> you're going to spend so much in txn fees dispersing and recombining it's not worth it
349 2011-07-06 04:56:28 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: not from diki! never!
350 2011-07-06 04:56:49 SixEch0 has left ("Leaving")
351 2011-07-06 04:56:53 <kunnis> well it's going to my final destination, there's no expense recombining it
352 2011-07-06 04:58:15 Clipse has joined
353 2011-07-06 04:58:32 <jrmithdobbs> kunnis: when you spend it later you have to pull from all those tiny inputs though unless you want to wait forever to combine it back into one input and then send from that
354 2011-07-06 04:58:49 <jrmithdobbs> (which can be done with time without a fee but not automatically with any publically available software i know of)
355 2011-07-06 05:02:10 Tim-7967 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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358 2011-07-06 05:02:32 <kunnis> Ah, I expected the destinations to be used multiple times
359 2011-07-06 05:02:54 <kunnis> they are only used once
360 2011-07-06 05:07:05 Clipse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
361 2011-07-06 05:10:24 Fairuser is now known as Fairuser|AFK
362 2011-07-06 05:11:39 spirals_away has joined
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364 2011-07-06 05:15:50 <kunnis> I'm trying to understand the basic scripting. it's something like.. OP_DUP OP_HASH160 c86b24db8805cfcdc66203f4fd3ac2eee2e24052 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG so the pk starts on the stack, it gets duped, hashed and checked to the bitcoin address. Then also check the sig to make sure the pk signs the message.
365 2011-07-06 05:16:26 folklore has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
366 2011-07-06 05:16:51 <kunnis> so if it's just OP_CHECKSIG, any signed transaction could transfer the money?
367 2011-07-06 05:17:36 fluffle has joined
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369 2011-07-06 05:18:06 <Tamo> Hi, where would be the best place to get the most recent price per BTC data? in usd/eur/gbp
370 2011-07-06 05:18:22 <egecko> bitcoinwatch.com is pretty good
371 2011-07-06 05:18:34 <Tamo> Do they have a feed do you knw?
372 2011-07-06 05:18:39 <Tamo> I'm looking to make some local graphs
373 2011-07-06 05:19:09 folklore has joined
374 2011-07-06 05:19:28 <Tamo> ;;bc,convert gbp
375 2011-07-06 05:19:28 <Tamo> style
376 2011-07-06 05:19:30 <gribble> 1 BTC = 14.29 US dollars = 8.9056 British pounds sterling
377 2011-07-06 05:20:43 Clipse has joined
378 2011-07-06 05:26:26 <Tamo> http://bitcoincharts.com/t/weighted_prices.json
379 2011-07-06 05:26:28 <Tamo> Sorted
380 2011-07-06 05:28:31 Gekz has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
381 2011-07-06 05:30:00 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r50969a1 / README.md : Updated and simplified README. - http://bit.ly/peyjyE https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/50969a1c4ed4a8760981195e41a0f6aaa64a2f06
382 2011-07-06 05:31:05 Gekz has joined
383 2011-07-06 05:34:07 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r9077bcd / daemon/start.js : Config path should be relative to current working directory. - http://bit.ly/mZ0M3W https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/9077bcdd017cca5c116a39075e668b28a291e316
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386 2011-07-06 05:37:56 <egecko> so what has to be done to start a pool?
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419 2011-07-06 06:24:21 <skEwb> simple question for you all, have bitcoind going and json-rpc as well as blkmond, if a block is ever found is it displayed on these consoles? how does one know if a block has been successfully found?
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464 2011-07-06 07:23:40 <skEwb> nobody around?
465 2011-07-06 07:24:43 <rethaw> doesn't look like it
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468 2011-07-06 07:25:53 <sturles> skEwb: bitcoin listtransactions "" will list all transactions, including blocks found.
469 2011-07-06 07:26:14 <skEwb> awesome
470 2011-07-06 07:26:20 <skEwb> thank you!
471 2011-07-06 07:26:43 <erus`> what db does bitcoind use internally?
472 2011-07-06 07:27:07 <skEwb> i thought it needs berkley when it compiles
473 2011-07-06 07:27:10 <skEwb> so i guess that
474 2011-07-06 07:28:09 <erus`> old school
475 2011-07-06 07:28:10 <erus`> :)
476 2011-07-06 07:28:21 conjre has joined
477 2011-07-06 07:28:28 <skEwb> sturles is the patch still needed for that?
478 2011-07-06 07:30:59 NickelBot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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485 2011-07-06 07:34:31 <skEwb> nvm works
486 2011-07-06 07:35:10 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
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489 2011-07-06 07:37:00 <phantomcircuit> sturles, it's only the last 10
490 2011-07-06 07:37:15 <phantomcircuit> and only for the default account
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499 2011-07-06 07:45:19 Nexus_7 is now known as Nexus7
500 2011-07-06 07:45:20 <sturles> Default is 10. You can get more (or less) by adding a number at the end.
501 2011-07-06 07:45:21 Nexus7 has quit (Changing host)
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503 2011-07-06 07:46:04 <sturles> My coins are always generated in the default account, but you can get another one by putting it inside the "".
504 2011-07-06 07:46:14 hahuang6_ has joined
505 2011-07-06 07:47:17 <sturles> This will give the last 100 transactions on your shop account: bitcoin listtransactions "shop" 100
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533 2011-07-06 08:26:23 <TD> mornin
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543 2011-07-06 08:39:09 <sipa> mornin, TD
544 2011-07-06 08:39:42 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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550 2011-07-06 08:46:46 Fuehrer is now known as Fireball
551 2011-07-06 08:48:02 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,stats
552 2011-07-06 08:48:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 134995 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 76 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 10 hours, 54 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1565264.28185423
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556 2011-07-06 08:55:58 <vegard> so it's still going up.
557 2011-07-06 08:56:29 Fireball has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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561 2011-07-06 08:58:53 <TD> sipa: http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/7/6/bitcoin-android-app-tips/
562 2011-07-06 08:59:10 <TD> i tried it. it works fine. he extended bitcoinj a bit. too early/risky for serious usage but it's a neat look at what's to come
563 2011-07-06 08:59:14 danbri has joined
564 2011-07-06 09:02:03 <TD> hey does anyone here have mod powers on the forum?
565 2011-07-06 09:02:11 <TD> it'd be good to sticky a post about the bitcoin-development mailing list
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568 2011-07-06 09:03:39 <sipa> TD: agree
569 2011-07-06 09:03:54 <sipa> i don't have mod powers though
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593 2011-07-06 09:47:45 <sipa> ''bc,stats
594 2011-07-06 09:47:48 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
595 2011-07-06 09:47:50 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135004 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 67 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 35 minutes, and 5 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1567241.08765187
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607 2011-07-06 10:05:59 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,stats
608 2011-07-06 10:06:02 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135005 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 66 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 9 hours, 28 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1566015.59408457
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625 2011-07-06 10:43:37 <diki> for solo at diff 1.3 mills ofc
626 2011-07-06 10:43:40 <diki> ...
627 2011-07-06 10:43:44 <diki> ;;bc,stats
628 2011-07-06 10:43:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135014 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 57 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 8 hours, 10 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1569464.81007888
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658 2011-07-06 11:35:23 <phantomcircuit> getaccountaddress "" is reliably freezing bitcoind for me :|
659 2011-07-06 11:35:47 DaQatz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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661 2011-07-06 11:36:52 <BlueMatt> version?
662 2011-07-06 11:37:26 <phantomcircuit> git head
663 2011-07-06 11:38:44 <sipa> any other rpc calls being done?
664 2011-07-06 11:38:45 Clipse has joined
665 2011-07-06 11:39:09 <phantomcircuit> sipa, nope
666 2011-07-06 11:39:29 <BlueMatt> wtf...lenovo ships laptops from hong kong when you order them to the us...
667 2011-07-06 11:39:34 <BlueMatt> youd think that is a waste of money
668 2011-07-06 11:40:16 <phantomcircuit> they ship them from hong kong either way
669 2011-07-06 11:40:26 <BlueMatt> and ups still says 4 business days to delivery
670 2011-07-06 11:40:36 <phantomcircuit> it's only a question of if it's in pieces or a while laptop
671 2011-07-06 11:40:44 <phantomcircuit> it'll take longer than 4 days
672 2011-07-06 11:40:48 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i can run 10 threads in parallel continuously doing that call on bitcoind here (also git head)
673 2011-07-06 11:40:49 <BlueMatt> yea, but they can ship a container full of parts and assemble them state side
674 2011-07-06 11:40:50 <phantomcircuit> customs ALWAYS holds them up
675 2011-07-06 11:40:54 <BlueMatt> yep
676 2011-07-06 11:41:01 <gmaxwell> In my past expirence the lenovo stuff came surprisingly fast.
677 2011-07-06 11:41:04 <BlueMatt> customs is a bitch
678 2011-07-06 11:41:26 <gmaxwell> (but its been a while)
679 2011-07-06 11:41:27 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i've never had anything they shipped from china show up in under 2 weeks
680 2011-07-06 11:41:50 <BlueMatt> this is why I buy newegg
681 2011-07-06 11:41:59 <BlueMatt> guaranteed 3-day shipping for free
682 2011-07-06 11:42:13 <phantomcircuit> buying lenovo is a long term investment
683 2011-07-06 11:42:26 <phantomcircuit> i've also never had to wait > 1 day for a support request
684 2011-07-06 11:42:45 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: wow, well, thats not my expirence at all. For a recent example, 9mart express shipment (~$20) of pci-e cables took two days.
685 2011-07-06 11:43:17 <BlueMatt> well it all depends on customs for me...
686 2011-07-06 11:43:29 <phantomcircuit> well i've only ever dont laptops and expensive components
687 2011-07-06 11:43:33 <phantomcircuit> i think those take longer
688 2011-07-06 11:44:04 sipa has left ()
689 2011-07-06 11:44:05 <BlueMatt> yea, they shipped a drive bay adapter really quick from the same state
690 2011-07-06 11:44:54 <phantomcircuit> yeah
691 2011-07-06 11:45:08 <phantomcircuit> they have components in the US but always do assembly in china
692 2011-07-06 11:45:20 again is now known as tower
693 2011-07-06 11:45:25 <BlueMatt> cheaper there...
694 2011-07-06 11:45:37 <phantomcircuit> yeah orders of magnitude cheaper
695 2011-07-06 11:45:53 oozyburglar has joined
696 2011-07-06 11:45:56 <BlueMatt> shame, oh well
697 2011-07-06 11:46:22 <JFK911> phantomcircuit: you in the usa?
698 2011-07-06 11:46:24 Stellar has joined
699 2011-07-06 11:47:23 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, not right now
700 2011-07-06 11:47:29 <JFK911> ahh
701 2011-07-06 11:47:50 <JFK911> lenovo ships UPS from china, and they guarantee expedited customs clearance to the USA for them
702 2011-07-06 11:50:49 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r121 /trunk/ (pom.xml src/com/google/bitcoin/core/VersionMessage.java): Bump version number to 0.3-SNAPSHOT http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r121/
703 2011-07-06 11:52:30 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, yeah that doesn't actually happen
704 2011-07-06 11:52:36 tandy80 has joined
705 2011-07-06 11:52:44 <phantomcircuit> JFK911, i had a laptop from hong kong to san francisco get stuck in customs for 2 weeks
706 2011-07-06 11:52:46 <JFK911> it did for me
707 2011-07-06 11:54:54 <BlueMatt> TD: can you add "dnsseed.bluematt.me" to the the dnsseed list?
708 2011-07-06 11:55:43 <BlueMatt> also, now that I look at bitcoinj, damn it looks nice
709 2011-07-06 11:55:49 <BlueMatt> clean code, it looks like heaven
710 2011-07-06 11:56:57 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
711 2011-07-06 11:57:49 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
712 2011-07-06 11:59:54 <TD> BlueMatt: yes sir!
713 2011-07-06 11:59:57 <TD> that's the one being auto generated right?
714 2011-07-06 12:00:00 <TD> great work
715 2011-07-06 12:00:04 <BlueMatt> yep, thats the one
716 2011-07-06 12:00:16 Rabbit67890 has joined
717 2011-07-06 12:00:42 <phantomcircuit> i rebuilt and rm -rf ~/.bitcoin
718 2011-07-06 12:00:51 <phantomcircuit> now im getting
719 2011-07-06 12:00:52 <phantomcircuit> EXCEPTION: 11DbException
720 2011-07-06 12:00:52 <phantomcircuit> DbEnv::open: Invalid argument
721 2011-07-06 12:00:53 <TD> seems the standard naming scheme is bitseed.* so far, but it doesn't matter
722 2011-07-06 12:00:56 <phantomcircuit> what did you guys do :|
723 2011-07-06 12:01:37 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r122 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/discovery/DnsDiscovery.java: Add dnsseed.bluematt.me to the DNS discovery list. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r122/
724 2011-07-06 12:02:57 mmoya has joined
725 2011-07-06 12:03:33 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r123 /trunk/tests/com/google/bitcoin/core/WalletTest.java: Remove the test prefix from WalletTest methods. It's unnecessary with JUnit 4. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r123/
726 2011-07-06 12:08:04 <BlueMatt> TD: oh, oops, oh well I had dnsseed.bitcoin.bit in the example conf and didnt bother changing it much...oh well yea it doesnt matter
727 2011-07-06 12:14:46 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r124 /trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Fix a bug in Transaction.getValueSentFromMe() in which inputs connected to outputs that existed in the wallet but were not actually owned by us were counted. Resolves issue 36. Patch from Jan Møller. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r124/
728 2011-07-06 12:16:18 Stellar has joined
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731 2011-07-06 12:24:47 <Zoiah> BlueMatt: I regularly receive packages from Hong Kong within 3 days on my doorstep in the Netherlands.
732 2011-07-06 12:30:34 Xenland has joined
733 2011-07-06 12:30:43 <Xenland> whats up mate
734 2011-07-06 12:30:47 <Xenland> mates*
735 2011-07-06 12:31:10 <Xenland> any body know why I get a LIBCURL_CHECK_CONFIG(, 7.10.1, ,' when doing ./configure on pushpool 5.1
736 2011-07-06 12:33:08 bittwist is now known as bitler
737 2011-07-06 12:33:30 <jgarzik> Xenland: this has already been posted to multiple pushpool tech support threads. use the release tarball. do not build the configure script yourself, using autogen.
738 2011-07-06 12:33:47 jivvz has joined
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741 2011-07-06 12:36:40 <diki> jgarzik:what does NPAR do?
742 2011-07-06 12:36:49 <diki> in sha256_4way.x
743 2011-07-06 12:36:52 <diki> *c
744 2011-07-06 12:38:26 <jgarzik> diki: set parallelism level
745 2011-07-06 12:38:51 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r125 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/BlockChain.java: Support attaching multiple wallets to a single BlockChain. Patch from Jan Møller. Resolves issue 39. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r125/
746 2011-07-06 12:39:33 <diki> why does the program crash if i set NPAR to 1 instead of 4,8,16,32 etc
747 2011-07-06 12:40:18 <jgarzik> diki: read the code. you must understand SSE and the sha256 algorithm.
748 2011-07-06 12:40:19 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
749 2011-07-06 12:40:36 <diki> nonce += NPAR;..meaning that if nonce = 0, then on each foreach it would increase by 32, ie 32,64,96
750 2011-07-06 12:40:46 <diki> each for*
751 2011-07-06 12:41:45 <lfm> yes, what part of that do you not understand?
752 2011-07-06 12:41:55 omes has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
753 2011-07-06 12:42:19 estornudo has joined
754 2011-07-06 12:42:36 <diki> also...can any of the improvements in the kernels for the GPU be applied to the 4way code for the CPU?
755 2011-07-06 12:43:25 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
756 2011-07-06 12:44:02 nus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
757 2011-07-06 12:46:42 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r126 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Wallet.java: Add a removeEventListener method. Idea from Andreas. Resolves issue 27. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r126/
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759 2011-07-06 12:46:48 im_gone_who is now known as b4epoche
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762 2011-07-06 12:48:36 <Xenland> jgarzik: thanks mate. I've been out of the game for a while and I forgot some stuff along the way, sorry to be a bother
763 2011-07-06 12:49:26 Jkessler has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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766 2011-07-06 12:51:29 <diki> i also got that once
767 2011-07-06 12:51:35 <diki> but dont know how i fixed it
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774 2011-07-06 13:01:04 <Xenland> jgarzik: not to sound like a smart ass but you said to not use autogen.sh, The only way I know how to spawn a./configure file is if i run ./autogen.sh (NOTE: this problem is with the tar.gz file)
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779 2011-07-06 13:10:50 <copumpkin> in the bitcoin gui client, what's the difference between "All transactions" and "Sent/received"?
780 2011-07-06 13:10:57 <copumpkin> are there transactions that aren't sends or receives?
781 2011-07-06 13:11:01 <b4epoche> mined
782 2011-07-06 13:11:10 <bitler> Xenland: just came across https://github.com/Xenland/MiningFarm about 10min ago, nice.
783 2011-07-06 13:11:11 <copumpkin> but the client doesn't mine
784 2011-07-06 13:11:16 <b4epoche> it did
785 2011-07-06 13:11:19 <copumpkin> oh
786 2011-07-06 13:11:45 <b4epoche> but I still think it will show coins you've mined solo
787 2011-07-06 13:11:57 <copumpkin> oh, maybe
788 2011-07-06 13:12:29 <b4epoche> already got legacy stuff from the good ol' days
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794 2011-07-06 13:14:59 erus`_ is now known as erus`
795 2011-07-06 13:15:44 disqk is now known as disq
796 2011-07-06 13:16:14 disq is now known as Guest29385
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800 2011-07-06 13:21:18 <copumpkin> :)
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805 2011-07-06 13:24:04 <cut> kermit: supz
806 2011-07-06 13:24:22 <cut> your ip was showing ;p
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824 2011-07-06 13:36:08 <TD> BlueMatt: seems the network is segmenting quite badly already
825 2011-07-06 13:36:16 <TD> i wonder if it's time to use the broadcast/alert function
826 2011-07-06 13:36:34 <TD> the next challenge will be that the client is basically unresponsive to network traffic whilst downloading the chain :/
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829 2011-07-06 13:37:11 Crshman_ is now known as Crshman
830 2011-07-06 13:37:11 Naked is now known as Hadaka
831 2011-07-06 13:37:12 Llamab2t is now known as BCBot
832 2011-07-06 13:37:17 _johndoe0711 is now known as johndoe0711
833 2011-07-06 13:38:23 <doublec> TD: use the alert to say what?
834 2011-07-06 13:38:27 <TD> to upgrade
835 2011-07-06 13:38:56 <doublec> to 32400?
836 2011-07-06 13:39:17 <sacarlson> doublec: we up to 32400 now?
837 2011-07-06 13:39:29 <doublec> sacarlson: that's the release candidate I think
838 2011-07-06 13:40:00 <sacarlson> doublec: oh ok so do we have qt4 libs in this next one?
839 2011-07-06 13:40:04 <diki> ;;bc,stats
840 2011-07-06 13:40:06 <doublec> I'm not sure if TD meant current version fixes issues or if the soon-to-be-released version does
841 2011-07-06 13:40:07 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135033 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 38 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 hours, 28 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1569014.63501509
842 2011-07-06 13:40:12 <diki> d-day soon
843 2011-07-06 13:40:17 <TD> soon to be released version
844 2011-07-06 13:40:32 <TD> with the flood fix
845 2011-07-06 13:40:41 <doublec> right
846 2011-07-06 13:40:42 <TD> i was connected for quite a while to nodes that don't seem to have the full chain
847 2011-07-06 13:40:46 <TD> not good ....
848 2011-07-06 13:40:51 Glasswalker has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
849 2011-07-06 13:41:26 <sacarlson> I'm not sure I should put effort into my merge with bitcoin-qt if I know this bitcoin will soon be supporting qt4
850 2011-07-06 13:43:11 btcrowan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
851 2011-07-06 13:43:40 <sacarlson> does anyone know at what point the branch of bitcoin-qt is branched into bitcoin?
852 2011-07-06 13:43:41 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r127 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Peer.java: Fix the getBlock() method to use the correct message type. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r127/
853 2011-07-06 13:44:28 Sedra- is now known as Sedra
854 2011-07-06 13:44:51 btcrowan has joined
855 2011-07-06 13:45:05 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r128 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/BlockChain.java: Add a constructor that allows wallet-less operation (now possible due to the previous patch to support multiple wallets). http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r128/
856 2011-07-06 13:45:38 <Xenland> Thanks bitler if your still there
857 2011-07-06 13:46:25 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r129 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/examples/FetchBlock.java: Add a tool that prints out an arbitrary block given its hash. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r129/
858 2011-07-06 13:48:22 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,stats
859 2011-07-06 13:48:25 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135034 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 37 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 hours, 19 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1569308.00337984
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862 2011-07-06 13:50:59 <Taveren93HGK> hey, does anybody have a factory 6990 bios i could download?
863 2011-07-06 13:51:36 bitler is now known as bittwist
864 2011-07-06 13:53:54 blueadept has joined
865 2011-07-06 13:54:18 <devon_hillard> is there any bitcoin fiction to date?
866 2011-07-06 13:54:38 Jkessler has joined
867 2011-07-06 13:54:58 Gonzago has joined
868 2011-07-06 13:55:13 <sacarlson> is there any team that is working on a qt lib link with this bitcoin? or is there anyone that would like to be?
869 2011-07-06 14:00:36 <Xenland> I honsetly wished I learned qt it seems like fun project
870 2011-07-06 14:00:55 <Xenland> devon_hillard: what is bitcoin fiction?
871 2011-07-06 14:02:04 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * ra9f2ec0 / (7 files in 3 dirs): Increase Java VM max stack size limit to 32mb from 16mb, create ... https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/a9f2ec0314fcbbf7c57cd67e7ecb2699fadcb45d
872 2011-07-06 14:02:24 <mtrlt> bitcoin porn?
873 2011-07-06 14:02:58 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
874 2011-07-06 14:03:34 <sacarlson> Xenland: well all the hard work seems to have already been done by bitcoin-qt group I just see a gap from where my branches are here in bitcoin to some how merge them
875 2011-07-06 14:03:40 kermit has joined
876 2011-07-06 14:04:21 <Xenland> ahh
877 2011-07-06 14:04:32 <sacarlson> Xenland: or beter yet find a way to keep them merged
878 2011-07-06 14:04:51 <BlueMatt> TD: oh, yea thats really not good, at a minimum I am planning on changing the dns config to only have nodes which are >=0.3.24 on release
879 2011-07-06 14:04:59 <Xenland> I would try to contact them directly if they have a thread
880 2011-07-06 14:05:00 karnac has joined
881 2011-07-06 14:05:26 <Xenland> but github is good for code managment although difficult at times in my opionion.
882 2011-07-06 14:05:32 <devon_hillard> Xenland: sci-fi featuring bitcoin-like digital currencies
883 2011-07-06 14:05:43 <BlueMatt> TD: the problem with upgrades currently is the fee issue...there is a decent number of people who refuse to upgrade off of 0.3.20 because the fee handling changed in .21
884 2011-07-06 14:06:06 <Xenland> interesting... I think i might use this idear for some wierd trippy indie video projects I've been thinking about latley
885 2011-07-06 14:06:35 btcrowan has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
886 2011-07-06 14:06:41 btcrowan has joined
887 2011-07-06 14:07:55 <Taveren93HGK> is there anyone around with a 4gig sapphire 6990?
888 2011-07-06 14:08:30 <devon_hillard> if you got a 6990 just for bitcoin, I feel sorry for you :)
889 2011-07-06 14:08:52 Tim-7967 has joined
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892 2011-07-06 14:09:25 <Taveren93HGK> actually, i got two
893 2011-07-06 14:09:38 <Taveren93HGK> and they've paid for themselves already, so now i have bitcoins AND hardware.
894 2011-07-06 14:09:44 <Taveren93HGK> so, no pity needed.
895 2011-07-06 14:10:00 nidefawl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
896 2011-07-06 14:10:24 koleg has joined
897 2011-07-06 14:10:40 <sacarlson> Taveren93HGK: ya some day when I'm rich I would like to have something like a 6990 or equivalent
898 2011-07-06 14:11:13 <sacarlson> I'll wait till next year or so when they are selling 2nd hand cheap
899 2011-07-06 14:13:10 <copumpkin> I hear they're a bitch to cool
900 2011-07-06 14:13:23 Glasswalker has joined
901 2011-07-06 14:14:31 <Taveren93HGK> sacarlson - by then i'll be running 7000's
902 2011-07-06 14:15:07 <Xenland> I rented my 6990 for $70 a month
903 2011-07-06 14:15:41 <Xenland> 4gb diamond its awsome :D
904 2011-07-06 14:15:58 <Xenland> games are soo freaking smooth I can even mine on one GPU and play L4D2 on the other :D
905 2011-07-06 14:16:22 <Taveren93HGK> i mine on BOTH gpu's and game anyway, i just set the -f low (like 90)
906 2011-07-06 14:19:10 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
907 2011-07-06 14:20:08 wolfspraul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
908 2011-07-06 14:21:08 pyro_ has joined
909 2011-07-06 14:22:30 <TD> BlueMatt: what is their complaint exactly?
910 2011-07-06 14:22:30 <nanotube> devon_hillard: kiba started writing a novel on the forums a bit back. never finished, but it was imo a decent statr :)
911 2011-07-06 14:22:32 <nanotube> start
912 2011-07-06 14:22:52 <TD> i mean refusing to upgrade financial software is not smart ....
913 2011-07-06 14:23:11 <BlueMatt> TD: that 0.3.21 makes you pay a fee if your inputs are new and prio is less than a threshold
914 2011-07-06 14:23:14 <BlueMatt> however 0.3.20 does not
915 2011-07-06 14:23:34 <TD> surely that just results in very slow transactions for 0.3.20 users?
916 2011-07-06 14:24:04 <BlueMatt> yes I would bet so
917 2011-07-06 14:24:23 <BlueMatt> but people dont care if they dont have to pay a fee
918 2011-07-06 14:24:31 <TD> it'd be useful to crawl the network and graph what versions people are using
919 2011-07-06 14:24:43 <TD> so we know how many people that actually affects
920 2011-07-06 14:24:43 <BlueMatt> well I can tell you for nodes that are listening
921 2011-07-06 14:24:48 <jrmithdobbs> someone should pull the .3.20 download from sourceforge
922 2011-07-06 14:24:51 <jrmithdobbs> just sayin
923 2011-07-06 14:24:51 <BlueMatt> but I dont know about non-listening ones
924 2011-07-06 14:24:55 <TD> right, of course
925 2011-07-06 14:25:07 <TD> so what are the stats for listening nodes?
926 2011-07-06 14:25:13 <TD> and yes restricting the dns seeds to the latest version is a good idea
927 2011-07-06 14:25:21 Pinion has joined
928 2011-07-06 14:25:25 <nanotube> devon_hillard: see also 'the great simoleon caper' by stephenson
929 2011-07-06 14:25:30 <TD> i wonder if we should have some bot kicking older nodes out of IRC as well, to try and reduce the segmentation issue
930 2011-07-06 14:26:07 pmazur has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
931 2011-07-06 14:26:21 <BlueMatt> that would mean old nodes get no connections...or use up all the static nodes' connection slots
932 2011-07-06 14:26:37 <BlueMatt> and that static list is not particularly good
933 2011-07-06 14:27:00 <BlueMatt> there was someone on here a month or so ago complaining that his node was on that list but its on dial up
934 2011-07-06 14:28:05 <TD> oh, wow
935 2011-07-06 14:28:07 <TD> that's nuts
936 2011-07-06 14:28:12 <TD> how does he even have a static ip with dialup
937 2011-07-06 14:28:18 <BlueMatt> no idea
938 2011-07-06 14:28:58 <BlueMatt> might have been bs, but anyway that static list hasnt been updated in a long time
939 2011-07-06 14:29:08 <BlueMatt> and it was pulled blindly just based on nodes which had good uptime at the time
940 2011-07-06 14:29:37 <TD> but yeah you're right. kicking nodes out of irc won't help much
941 2011-07-06 14:29:44 <TD> it'd stop other nodes trying to connect to them
942 2011-07-06 14:31:11 <BlueMatt> heres what I have for stats: http://pastebin.com/GGk9z9G6
943 2011-07-06 14:31:32 <BlueMatt> sorry, its not 0.3.21 that made the change its 0.3.20
944 2011-07-06 14:32:32 <BlueMatt> TD: ^
945 2011-07-06 14:32:54 <sacarlson> is IRC still the majority of how nodes bootstrap? I thought the hardcoded and remembered addresses would be the mojority
946 2011-07-06 14:33:08 <BlueMatt> no, irc is I would guess
947 2011-07-06 14:33:14 <BlueMatt> hardcoded waits a while before being used
948 2011-07-06 14:33:24 <BlueMatt> and if it gets one node from irc, it wont use hardcoded ones
949 2011-07-06 14:33:31 <BlueMatt> (IIRC)
950 2011-07-06 14:34:12 <TD> so there's, what, 60 holdouts on 0.3.19 ?
951 2011-07-06 14:34:14 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
952 2011-07-06 14:34:20 <TD> not that many
953 2011-07-06 14:34:24 <TD> i guess most nodes aren't listening
954 2011-07-06 14:34:34 <BlueMatt> theres only a couple thousant total
955 2011-07-06 14:34:44 <BlueMatt> though tbh its less that I thought
956 2011-07-06 14:34:49 <BlueMatt> it used to be more
957 2011-07-06 14:35:10 <phantomcircuit> total nodes?
958 2011-07-06 14:35:22 <BlueMatt> no, only ones which accept incoming
959 2011-07-06 14:35:26 <BlueMatt> but total accepting
960 2011-07-06 14:35:44 <BlueMatt> I have 1282 accepting on port 8333
961 2011-07-06 14:35:44 <phantomcircuit> there has never been that many
962 2011-07-06 14:35:57 <phantomcircuit> when there where 4k nodes there where ~400 listening
963 2011-07-06 14:35:59 <BlueMatt> (which responded really quickly, I have low timeout)
964 2011-07-06 14:36:25 <BlueMatt> so its probably more like 3000, but the percent here should be roughly right
965 2011-07-06 14:36:29 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, getaccountaddress hangs if there isn't an account address btw
966 2011-07-06 14:36:43 <BlueMatt> it doesnt return "wtf"?
967 2011-07-06 14:36:56 <BlueMatt> well thats shit
968 2011-07-06 14:37:03 <phantomcircuit> afaict it never returns
969 2011-07-06 14:37:07 <BlueMatt> wait, no it does
970 2011-07-06 14:37:09 <phantomcircuit> not sure why though looking at the code
971 2011-07-06 14:37:12 <BlueMatt> it grabs from keypool
972 2011-07-06 14:37:16 denisx has joined
973 2011-07-06 14:37:18 <BlueMatt> on git head?
974 2011-07-06 14:37:29 <phantomcircuit> yeah
975 2011-07-06 14:37:35 <phantomcircuit> ill try building again?
976 2011-07-06 14:37:49 <BlueMatt> well Ill go see if I can duplicate it again
977 2011-07-06 14:38:12 glassresistor has joined
978 2011-07-06 14:39:16 <BlueMatt> s/again/first/
979 2011-07-06 14:40:07 TD_ has joined
980 2011-07-06 14:41:16 Breign has quit ()
981 2011-07-06 14:42:11 meLon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
982 2011-07-06 14:42:28 meLon has joined
983 2011-07-06 14:42:28 meLon has quit (Changing host)
984 2011-07-06 14:42:28 meLon has joined
985 2011-07-06 14:42:50 TD has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
986 2011-07-06 14:42:50 TD_ is now known as TD
987 2011-07-06 14:43:13 <gmaxwell> 07:22 <@BlueMatt> but people dont care if they dont have to pay a fee
988 2011-07-06 14:43:20 <BlueMatt> TD: you change hosts more than anyone else I know
989 2011-07-06 14:43:46 <TD> i should set up an irc proxy
990 2011-07-06 14:43:49 <TD> i used to have one
991 2011-07-06 14:43:54 <gmaxwell> The difference is mostly imagined. People hit the fee their very first txn, and get irritated and change versions. By the time they send their next txn their inputs are aged enough not to have problems too often.
992 2011-07-06 14:43:56 slux has joined
993 2011-07-06 14:43:57 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: in many situations, maybe not all
994 2011-07-06 14:44:03 <TD> i was switching from internal wifi to guest wifi so i can connect to my laptop from my phone
995 2011-07-06 14:44:23 <gmaxwell> Ones that aren't like that end up in #bitcoin asking why their transaction has been stuck for two weeks.
996 2011-07-06 14:44:26 <BlueMatt> that sounds over-complicated
997 2011-07-06 14:44:49 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yep, in any case we should reasonably change the fee system
998 2011-07-06 14:45:00 <BlueMatt> that should get people up-to-date
999 2011-07-06 14:45:03 <gmaxwell> So .. the partitioning. Yea it sucks. There are a bunch of issues.
1000 2011-07-06 14:45:26 <BlueMatt> it should go away slowly and naturally as people upgrade to 0.3.24
1001 2011-07-06 14:45:44 <gmaxwell> For example, clients only get a hundred or so responses to /who sometimes there are no listeners in the responses at all. Then they learn about joins, but joining hosts are mostly new hosts.
1002 2011-07-06 14:46:16 <gmaxwell> The last seen check in the outbound logic makes it strongly prefer hosts they've seen join, thus promoting partitioning.
1003 2011-07-06 14:46:39 <BlueMatt> yea, irc is just not good for this
1004 2011-07-06 14:46:44 <gmaxwell> It doesn't re-attempt addnode-ed nodes with any special vigor, it's one shot— so addnoding good nodes doesn't fix things.
1005 2011-07-06 14:47:29 <gmaxwell> The backoff logic means that after a local internet connection problem all of your recently seen good peers from addr.dat can be stuck in a long backed off state.
1006 2011-07-06 14:47:44 <BlueMatt> yea, imo that should be changed now that -dnsseed will get you good nodes quick
1007 2011-07-06 14:48:03 <gmaxwell> The flood logic also makes new nodes disconnect from healthy ones, but this is fixed. (hurray)
1008 2011-07-06 14:48:10 <BlueMatt> addnode should keep nodes, it was needed originally, but...
1009 2011-07-06 14:48:40 karnac has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1010 2011-07-06 14:49:33 <gmaxwell> so I have patches for the connection logic and addnodes, also a patch that makes it join two IRC channels, and randomly hop every few hours. But I have no good way to test to see the impact on the network overall.
1011 2011-07-06 14:49:36 lizthegr1y is now known as lizthegrey
1012 2011-07-06 14:49:52 <gmaxwell> I'm thinking that we shouldn't even bother with the IRC stuff, because we should be migrating away from IRC.
1013 2011-07-06 14:49:58 <BlueMatt> not sure about bothering with irc channels...
1014 2011-07-06 14:50:03 <BlueMatt> yea
1015 2011-07-06 14:50:07 <MrSam> :)
1016 2011-07-06 14:50:17 <BlueMatt> but addnode at a minimum should be changed to be more active
1017 2011-07-06 14:50:33 <MrSam> and maybe support dns lookup ?
1018 2011-07-06 14:50:34 <gmaxwell> yea, then addnode also becomes a defense against sybil attacks.
1019 2011-07-06 14:50:40 <BlueMatt> and connections logic should be better esp for sybil
1020 2011-07-06 14:50:53 freakazoid has joined
1021 2011-07-06 14:51:04 <BlueMatt> yep both of those sound probably very good
1022 2011-07-06 14:51:22 <gmaxwell> (miners addnoding each othr will prevnt a sybil attacker from partitioning the miners in ordr to divide hash power for making chain splits.)
1023 2011-07-06 14:51:26 RBecker_ is now known as RBecker
1024 2011-07-06 14:51:27 RBecker has quit (Changing host)
1025 2011-07-06 14:51:28 RBecker has joined
1026 2011-07-06 14:52:05 <BlueMatt> yea, I absolutely think mtgox/miners/other merchants need to addnode each other
1027 2011-07-06 14:52:20 <MrSam> there is actually a discussion about that
1028 2011-07-06 14:52:21 <MrSam> right now
1029 2011-07-06 14:52:27 <gmaxwell> (wow, my 'e' key is almost dead— I'm be Ernest Vincent Wright in no time)
1030 2011-07-06 14:52:49 <MrSam> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=22585.msg331781#msg331781
1031 2011-07-06 14:52:49 <gmaxwell> MrSam: well it doesn't work at the moment, because addnode is one-shot but thats a trivial fix.
1032 2011-07-06 14:53:00 <BlueMatt> MrSam: yes, Matt happens to be me :)
1033 2011-07-06 14:53:07 <MrSam> ah okay
1034 2011-07-06 14:53:10 <MrSam> *bow*
1035 2011-07-06 14:54:01 <RBecker> ;;ident
1036 2011-07-06 14:54:10 <RBecker> ;;info RBecker
1037 2011-07-06 14:54:10 <gribble> Error: The command "info" is available in the Factoids, GPG, MessageParser, and RSS plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "info".
1038 2011-07-06 14:54:20 <RBecker> ;;gpg info RBecker
1039 2011-07-06 14:54:32 <gmaxwell> I'd _like_ to have the ability to specify trusted peers which are authenticated and are given preference, reserved slots, etc. But one step at a time.
1040 2011-07-06 14:54:41 <gribble> You are not identified.
1041 2011-07-06 14:54:42 <gribble> User 'RBecker', with keyid 8B2731A00F23E23F and fingerprint 2C423D6DAE3CE952191B66EC8B2731A00F23E23F, registered on Sat Apr 9 14:11:19 2011. Currently not authenticated.
1042 2011-07-06 14:54:49 <RBecker> ;;eauth RBecker
1043 2011-07-06 14:54:49 <gribble> Request successful for user RBecker, hostmask RBecker!~Ryan@unaffiliated/rbecker. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/8B2731A00F23E23F
1044 2011-07-06 14:55:30 <RBecker> ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:1e9a4561dfb7f1c214ca7d48cbb8d8e8344edae66f5f53ef6497ed54
1045 2011-07-06 14:55:30 <gribble> You are now authenticated for user 'RBecker' with key 8B2731A00F23E23F
1046 2011-07-06 14:55:34 <RBecker> ;;voiceme
1047 2011-07-06 14:56:00 <BlueMatt> RBecker: can you do that in private instead of on here?
1048 2011-07-06 14:56:13 <RBecker> i'm done
1049 2011-07-06 14:56:20 <RBecker> and yes, I'm physically able to
1050 2011-07-06 14:57:05 <BlueMatt> could you do so in the future then?
1051 2011-07-06 14:57:27 <gmaxwell> I was about to ask the same thing of RBecker. That bot should not allow crap like that in public.
1052 2011-07-06 14:57:40 <BlueMatt> it doesnt in other channels
1053 2011-07-06 14:57:58 <BlueMatt> not sure why here...
1054 2011-07-06 14:58:47 <RBecker> probably because people do things like [bc,stats]
1055 2011-07-06 14:58:55 <RBecker> which should've worked
1056 2011-07-06 14:59:25 Gonzago has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1057 2011-07-06 14:59:30 <gmaxwell> It's fine that the bot can talk, things like ;;bc,stats are general interest too. Auth messages are not. :)
1058 2011-07-06 14:59:35 <BlueMatt> but nanotube can set it up to respond to auth in private, even if bc,stats and such is public
1059 2011-07-06 14:59:44 <BlueMatt> nanotube: care to do that?
1060 2011-07-06 15:00:38 <MacRohard> is anythign wrong with bitcoin block explorer? i can't see some transactiosn that should have happened there
1061 2011-07-06 15:00:52 <BlueMatt> are they marked confirmed in your client?
1062 2011-07-06 15:01:03 <MacRohard> i'm using that android client. it doesn't say
1063 2011-07-06 15:01:22 WakiMiko_ has joined
1064 2011-07-06 15:01:30 <BlueMatt> well they wont be in bbe until they are confirmed...
1065 2011-07-06 15:01:49 koleg has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1066 2011-07-06 15:01:53 <MacRohard> it's been more than 10min tho'
1067 2011-07-06 15:01:54 <doublec> MacRohard: is it listed here http://www.bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/
1068 2011-07-06 15:02:08 <BlueMatt> blocks can go from 1 minutes to an hour or more
1069 2011-07-06 15:02:22 <BlueMatt> the 10 minute thing is really just an average
1070 2011-07-06 15:02:36 <MacRohard> doublec, hmm nope.
1071 2011-07-06 15:02:53 <BlueMatt> does it have recent inputs, small outputs?
1072 2011-07-06 15:02:59 <BlueMatt> or pay a fee
1073 2011-07-06 15:03:18 <MacRohard> i don't know. i sent it from cavirtex
1074 2011-07-06 15:03:53 <BlueMatt> well Id say wait for a couple more blocks and then try to figure it out
1075 2011-07-06 15:03:55 <MacRohard> i guess i'll just have to wait and hope it didn't disappear itno the ether :/
1076 2011-07-06 15:04:03 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1077 2011-07-06 15:04:31 puhc has joined
1078 2011-07-06 15:04:53 karnac has joined
1079 2011-07-06 15:06:14 <MacRohard> aha. it just appaered on blockexplorer
1080 2011-07-06 15:07:13 <BlueMatt> "Denver's medical marijuana dispensaries now outnumber their Starbucks"
1081 2011-07-06 15:07:14 <BlueMatt> damn
1082 2011-07-06 15:07:21 <phantomcircuit> lol
1083 2011-07-06 15:07:29 <b4epoche> time to merge the two
1084 2011-07-06 15:07:30 <phantomcircuit> there's only like 6 of them in san francisco
1085 2011-07-06 15:07:31 <MacRohard> maybe someone poked block explorer
1086 2011-07-06 15:07:31 <phantomcircuit> guess why
1087 2011-07-06 15:08:35 <gmaxwell> MacRohard: Why would you think that?
1088 2011-07-06 15:08:36 Harpy6 has joined
1089 2011-07-06 15:08:48 <gmaxwell> MacRohard: if it just appears its almost certantly because it just got mined.
1090 2011-07-06 15:08:49 <MacRohard> gmaxwell, maybe not. it could just be it took a long time to confirm
1091 2011-07-06 15:09:53 <MacRohard> gmaxwell, yeah. nm, it first appeared in teh current top block
1092 2011-07-06 15:09:56 * MacRohard shuts up
1093 2011-07-06 15:10:26 <gmaxwell> Blocks don't happen every 10 minutes. They happen an average of ten minutes. Not the same thing. :)
1094 2011-07-06 15:10:33 <MacRohard> indeed
1095 2011-07-06 15:11:01 <doublec> namecoiners know all about 'average of ten minutes' and the real meaning :)
1096 2011-07-06 15:11:09 <gmaxwell> According to the timestamps it took about 35 minutes for this one.
1097 2011-07-06 15:11:27 Superbest has joined
1098 2011-07-06 15:11:43 <gmaxwell> doublec: bitcoiner's are mostly spoiled, with the growth it's often been running 6-8 minutes on average so >>10 has been uncommon.
1099 2011-07-06 15:12:02 <doublec> yeah
1100 2011-07-06 15:12:08 btcrowan has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1101 2011-07-06 15:12:51 sshc has joined
1102 2011-07-06 15:12:56 btcrowan has joined
1103 2011-07-06 15:13:27 <jine> Anyone that got a yubikey?
1104 2011-07-06 15:14:29 pakiaries has joined
1105 2011-07-06 15:15:10 DD- has quit ()
1106 2011-07-06 15:18:19 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r130 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/ (Block.java NetworkParameters.java Sha256Hash.java): Optimize Block.cloneAsHeader() which was taking about 25% of the CPU during ... http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r130/
1107 2011-07-06 15:18:21 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r130 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/ (Block.java NetworkParameters.java Sha256Hash.java): Optimize Block.cloneAsHeader() which was taking about 25% of the CPU during ... http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r130/
1108 2011-07-06 15:20:38 <gmaxwell> After this http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/04/business/media/04link.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all I'm canceling my eff membership: I question their competence that they can't manage to not accept BTC for the reasonable reason of not wanting to be wrapped up in something they might be called to defend, without managing to be quoted as calling it probably unlawful.
1109 2011-07-06 15:22:43 <Diablo-D3> I'd cancel mine, but I dont have one
1110 2011-07-06 15:22:47 <Diablo-D3> eff has been failing for years
1111 2011-07-06 15:23:09 Harpy6 has left ()
1112 2011-07-06 15:23:38 amiller has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1113 2011-07-06 15:23:58 cyberchriss_ has joined
1114 2011-07-06 15:25:04 estornudo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1115 2011-07-06 15:25:28 suriv has joined
1116 2011-07-06 15:26:02 <yebyen> isn't ny times the sensationalist organization that charges readers for a subscription after they have read three articles, or tells them to go home?
1117 2011-07-06 15:27:51 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r131 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/BitcoinSerializer.java: Don't construct a debug message unless that channel is enabled. Takes serialize() out of the profiles. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r131/
1118 2011-07-06 15:28:20 <b4epoche> yea, wtf eff
1119 2011-07-06 15:29:11 conjre has joined
1120 2011-07-06 15:29:57 <b4epoche> afraid of the legal issues? they should be trying to provoke a legal battle
1121 2011-07-06 15:30:17 nidefawl has joined
1122 2011-07-06 15:30:43 puhc has quit (Quit: Sleeping)
1123 2011-07-06 15:31:19 <BlueMatt> I have to say I completely understand what they did here
1124 2011-07-06 15:32:32 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r132 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Block.java: Clone cached hash in Block.cloneAsHeader(). Before this hash recalculation was about half the time spent inside BoundedOverheadBlockStore.put(), now it does not appear in the profiles. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r132/
1125 2011-07-06 15:32:47 <yebyen> i've heard the word "amicus curiae" tossed around
1126 2011-07-06 15:32:53 <yebyen> and i don't really know what it means
1127 2011-07-06 15:32:58 danbri has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1128 2011-07-06 15:33:06 <yebyen> but i get that if they were trading bitcoins, or accepting donations of them, they can't file one
1129 2011-07-06 15:33:13 <yebyen> do you pay your lawyer in bitcoins?
1130 2011-07-06 15:33:56 <BlueMatt> no, the idea here is that an amicus brief is someone who isnt a part of a case, but files to inform the court as to its opinion
1131 2011-07-06 15:34:08 <BlueMatt> typically only used in higher courts
1132 2011-07-06 15:34:11 <BlueMatt> aka fried of the court
1133 2011-07-06 15:34:15 <BlueMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amicus_curiae
1134 2011-07-06 15:34:36 <BlueMatt> obviously if eff accepted bitcoins they are an involved party if someone gets sued to make bitcoin illegal
1135 2011-07-06 15:34:57 danbri has joined
1136 2011-07-06 15:37:22 cyberchriss_ is now known as cyberchriss
1137 2011-07-06 15:37:46 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1138 2011-07-06 15:37:48 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135045 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 26 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 hours, 44 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1568383.48127131
1139 2011-07-06 15:38:49 amiller has joined
1140 2011-07-06 15:40:52 <b4epoche> EFF afraid of a legal fight?
1141 2011-07-06 15:41:19 <b4epoche> I guess when it comes down to their money, they have no teeth
1142 2011-07-06 15:41:39 btcrowan has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1143 2011-07-06 15:42:01 btcrowan has joined
1144 2011-07-06 15:42:36 <BlueMatt> no, they arent in the business of making fights
1145 2011-07-06 15:42:43 <BlueMatt> they are there to defend not fight
1146 2011-07-06 15:43:42 * luke-jr ponders whether to share his super-hub-mode patch which joins every Bitcoin IRC channel <.<
1147 2011-07-06 15:43:46 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1148 2011-07-06 15:44:08 <b4epoche> well, then they should be defending whoever it is that gets sued over bitcoin
1149 2011-07-06 15:44:15 Harpy6 has joined
1150 2011-07-06 15:44:24 <BlueMatt> and Id bet they will, well they better
1151 2011-07-06 15:44:28 <b4epoche> and they certainly do pick fights
1152 2011-07-06 15:44:34 <cacheson> b4epoche: and who's been sued over bitcoin?
1153 2011-07-06 15:44:44 dbasch has joined
1154 2011-07-06 15:45:17 <b4epoche> cacheson: see chat history
1155 2011-07-06 15:45:29 <BlueMatt> wait, someone has been?
1156 2011-07-06 15:45:32 <BlueMatt> afaik no one yet
1157 2011-07-06 15:45:45 * b4epoche wasn't implying someone had been
1158 2011-07-06 15:45:58 <cacheson> b4epoche: exactly
1159 2011-07-06 15:46:00 shLONG has joined
1160 2011-07-06 15:46:08 <shLONG> right
1161 2011-07-06 15:46:14 <shLONG> i had an idea
1162 2011-07-06 15:46:20 <shLONG> top increase bitcoin spending
1163 2011-07-06 15:46:28 <shLONG> the bitcoin client needs an app store.
1164 2011-07-06 15:46:30 <b4epoche> cacheson: if you read the chat history you'll understand the conversation
1165 2011-07-06 15:46:37 <bx_> shLONG solid
1166 2011-07-06 15:46:40 <cacheson> b4epoche: I've been watching it
1167 2011-07-06 15:46:44 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r133 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/BitcoinSerializer.java: Replace reflection with an if ladder for deserialization, as reflection was dominating the profiles (60% of all time spent downloading the chain). Takes us from around 250-300 blocks per second to over 400. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r133/
1168 2011-07-06 15:46:47 <shLONG> an easy centralised point to access bitcoin services
1169 2011-07-06 15:47:08 <shLONG> apps would be made for the app store using a scripting langauge
1170 2011-07-06 15:47:22 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r134 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Ping.java: Minor style fix http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r134/
1171 2011-07-06 15:47:26 <shLONG> this would give access to connections with remote webservers to communicate with PHP that uses JSON-RPC
1172 2011-07-06 15:47:36 <shLONG> or winsock connections for custom daemons
1173 2011-07-06 15:47:43 <shLONG> also access to basic graphic functions
1174 2011-07-06 15:47:50 <shLONG> so people can build their own user interfaces
1175 2011-07-06 15:47:54 <shLONG> and ofcourse input
1176 2011-07-06 15:48:08 <b4epoche> shLONG: the problem is populating the app store...
1177 2011-07-06 15:48:16 suriv has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1178 2011-07-06 15:48:16 <b4epoche> and not getting sued for calling it that
1179 2011-07-06 15:48:17 <shLONG> I would build for it
1180 2011-07-06 15:48:25 <shLONG> haha everyone calls it an app store
1181 2011-07-06 15:48:28 <shLONG> android have one
1182 2011-07-06 15:48:30 <shLONG> amazon
1183 2011-07-06 15:48:33 <shLONG> apple
1184 2011-07-06 15:48:33 conjre has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1185 2011-07-06 15:48:35 <shLONG> windows
1186 2011-07-06 15:48:48 Harpy6 has left ()
1187 2011-07-06 15:48:48 <b4epoche> and all but Apple is getting sued about it
1188 2011-07-06 15:49:02 <shLONG> really lol
1189 2011-07-06 15:49:09 <shLONG> they cant really chase bitcoin
1190 2011-07-06 15:49:14 <shLONG> it's free software
1191 2011-07-06 15:49:16 <shLONG> and as for the apps
1192 2011-07-06 15:49:20 <b4epoche> they can chase /you/
1193 2011-07-06 15:49:27 <shLONG> payments are pretty much anonymous
1194 2011-07-06 15:49:37 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1195 2011-07-06 15:49:42 <shLONG> and it wouldent hold up in court
1196 2011-07-06 15:49:48 <shLONG> but we could call it comething else
1197 2011-07-06 15:49:53 <shLONG> bitcoin service store
1198 2011-07-06 15:50:21 <shLONG> what do you guys think?
1199 2011-07-06 15:50:37 <shLONG> I could start work on this
1200 2011-07-06 15:50:48 <b4epoche> I think it's a good idea but you need to have stuff to sell
1201 2011-07-06 15:50:57 <b4epoche> that's the hard part
1202 2011-07-06 15:51:00 <shLONG> do we use an existing scripting language?
1203 2011-07-06 15:51:11 rethaw has joined
1204 2011-07-06 15:51:12 <shLONG> or make our own up that wraps around WX Widgets and stuff
1205 2011-07-06 15:51:23 <shLONG> existing would be easier for the lgoic etc
1206 2011-07-06 15:51:30 <shLONG> what should we use
1207 2011-07-06 15:51:47 <b4epoche> the issue: half the people on here could probably get an "AppStore" running… but I don't see anyone that can get it populated with merchandise
1208 2011-07-06 15:52:36 <luke-jr> shLONG: not wx
1209 2011-07-06 15:52:51 <luke-jr> shLONG: the Satoshi client is moving to Qt, so QtScript would make sense :p
1210 2011-07-06 15:53:31 <shLONG> qt?
1211 2011-07-06 15:53:40 rethaw has quit (Client Quit)
1212 2011-07-06 15:53:46 <b4epoche> and there's problem #0
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1214 2011-07-06 15:54:46 <Mad7Scientist> Is there a way I can verify that my bitcoin -server has miners properly connected and running on it?
1215 2011-07-06 15:55:05 <Mad7Scientist> I like Qt
1216 2011-07-06 15:55:48 dr_win has joined
1217 2011-07-06 15:56:15 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r135 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/store/BoundedOverheadBlockStore.java: Store 2050 blocks in the BoundedOverheadBlockStore memory cache. This eliminates the delay on difficulty transitions. We now regularly hit 500 blocks per second, ie, we are sender-constrained. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r135/
1218 2011-07-06 15:56:31 erus` has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])
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1220 2011-07-06 15:57:00 <BlueMatt> Mad7Scientist: unless you are planning on running a pool, or have a supercomputer worth of gpus, join a pool
1221 2011-07-06 15:57:12 <Mad7Scientist> blueadept, too unreliable
1222 2011-07-06 15:57:19 <Mad7Scientist> btcguild is under DoS, I'm running local for a while
1223 2011-07-06 15:57:22 <BlueMatt> too unreliable?
1224 2011-07-06 15:57:32 <BlueMatt> you wont get anything running yourself
1225 2011-07-06 15:57:38 <Mad7Scientist> I won't?
1226 2011-07-06 15:57:42 <denisx> Mad7Scientist: just join a smaller pool
1227 2011-07-06 15:57:46 <BlueMatt> so switch to another pool when your main one is down
1228 2011-07-06 15:57:50 <Mad7Scientist> I will win 50 BTC in about 40 days
1229 2011-07-06 15:57:54 <BlueMatt> ...
1230 2011-07-06 15:58:09 <Mad7Scientist> When the pool goes back up all connect again
1231 2011-07-06 15:58:19 <denisx> Mad7Scientist: yes, but only with the actual difficulty which will change in some hours
1232 2011-07-06 15:58:21 <BlueMatt> not in 40 days, in an average of 40 days
1233 2011-07-06 15:58:24 <BlueMatt> not nearly worth it
1234 2011-07-06 15:58:33 <Mad7Scientist> I could get 50 BTC in 3 days
1235 2011-07-06 15:58:38 <Mad7Scientist> or 100 days
1236 2011-07-06 15:58:42 <Mad7Scientist> It's like a lottery
1237 2011-07-06 15:58:44 <BlueMatt> just use a different pool
1238 2011-07-06 15:58:48 koleg has joined
1239 2011-07-06 15:58:56 <nanotube> BlueMatt: if he's willing to take the variance, why not.
1240 2011-07-06 15:59:13 <Mad7Scientist> Is there a verbose option that I can run bitcoin with that will make it print information on the console?
1241 2011-07-06 15:59:20 <BlueMatt> nanotube: as a backup for a pool variance seems like a bad idea
1242 2011-07-06 15:59:21 Joric has joined
1243 2011-07-06 15:59:26 <devrandom> Mad7Scientist: the difficulty is likely to double in less than 40 days, so you may have a >50% chance of finding nothing
1244 2011-07-06 15:59:31 <BlueMatt> because you will be doing it so rarely
1245 2011-07-06 15:59:35 <nanotube> BlueMatt: better than having no backup.
1246 2011-07-06 15:59:43 <BlueMatt> ...true
1247 2011-07-06 15:59:44 <nanotube> as long as it's maintaining total network hash power... it's all good.
1248 2011-07-06 15:59:51 <BlueMatt> but different pool as backup seems better
1249 2011-07-06 16:00:03 <Mad7Scientist> Too many people on pools is bad isn't it
1250 2011-07-06 16:00:14 <Mad7Scientist> A massive DoS could take down all pools and the network could be taken over
1251 2011-07-06 16:00:16 <BlueMatt> not really
1252 2011-07-06 16:00:16 <b4epoche> please, folks, let idiots be idiots ;-)
1253 2011-07-06 16:00:24 <BlueMatt> oh, well that is just not true
1254 2011-07-06 16:00:32 <devrandom> need more pools
1255 2011-07-06 16:00:39 <devrandom> but pools are important
1256 2011-07-06 16:00:45 <Mad7Scientist> If there are 100 pools a DoS could take them all down easily
1257 2011-07-06 16:00:49 <BlueMatt> too few pools is bad as they could use their hash power to potentially do a >51% attack, but pools all going down is not
1258 2011-07-06 16:01:04 <BlueMatt> as diff adjusts slowly and is limited in adjustment per round
1259 2011-07-06 16:01:16 <Mad7Scientist> There is nothing wrong with having some variance in life
1260 2011-07-06 16:02:00 <Mad7Scientist> I am actually making more money since there is no donation, and server load with idle miners is not an issue, and it is much more reliable
1261 2011-07-06 16:02:07 <denisx> BlueMatt: I would like to object the Native Long Polling Support patch
1262 2011-07-06 16:02:20 <BlueMatt> denisx: why?
1263 2011-07-06 16:02:28 <BlueMatt> and which one?
1264 2011-07-06 16:02:35 <denisx> BlueMatt: I tested it and it seems that it fires too early
1265 2011-07-06 16:02:55 <denisx> from the joelkatz patch
1266 2011-07-06 16:03:10 <BlueMatt> I wasnt saying it would be pulled as-is w/o testing, I was commenting on its ability to be pulled if its done right
1267 2011-07-06 16:03:29 <denisx> I always got the old block and not the new one, so I moved to code a little down in that function and then it worked
1268 2011-07-06 16:03:43 <BlueMatt> well tell joel that
1269 2011-07-06 16:03:49 <denisx> BlueMatt:ok
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1274 2011-07-06 16:11:09 <Mad7Scientist> I found -printtoconsole
1275 2011-07-06 16:12:38 DukeOfURL has joined
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1277 2011-07-06 16:15:25 <Mad7Scientist> I'll just have to have blind faith that 50 BTC will show up in 40 to 60 days
1278 2011-07-06 16:15:27 <Mad7Scientist> :)
1279 2011-07-06 16:16:47 <BlueMatt> have fun
1280 2011-07-06 16:16:51 <b4epoche> or maybe today!
1281 2011-07-06 16:18:51 sanity has joined
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1285 2011-07-06 16:24:06 <osmosis> Mad7Scientist, reading stuff like that scares me.
1286 2011-07-06 16:24:21 <Mad7Scientist> yeah
1287 2011-07-06 16:24:36 <Mad7Scientist> It's hard not being able to verify if it is really working or not
1288 2011-07-06 16:24:44 <Mad7Scientist> poclbm is connected and showing me the Khash rate
1289 2011-07-06 16:25:04 <Mad7Scientist> 97% chance it will work without a problem I guess
1290 2011-07-06 16:25:30 <osmosis> Mad7Scientist, i just arrived. what happened? you solved the block but didnt get paid?
1291 2011-07-06 16:25:36 bx_ has left ()
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1296 2011-07-06 16:30:12 <Mad7Scientist> osmosis, no btcguild is down and I switched to local mining, but I can't be 100% sure it is working until I get 50 BTC
1297 2011-07-06 16:30:32 <denisx> Mad7Scientist: what is your hashrate?
1298 2011-07-06 16:30:45 <Mad7Scientist> 1.5Ghsh
1299 2011-07-06 16:30:53 <Mad7Scientist> I'll be at 2.0 in a few days
1300 2011-07-06 16:31:03 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,gen 2000000
1301 2011-07-06 16:31:05 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 1.45857599288 BTC per day and 0.0607739997032 BTC per hour.
1302 2011-07-06 16:31:41 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,help
1303 2011-07-06 16:31:41 <gribble> Alias bc,24hprc, Alias bc,avgprc, Alias bc,bcm, Alias bc,blocks, Alias bc,btceur, Alias bc,btcgbp, Alias bc,btcguild, Alias bc,btcrub, Alias bc,btcto, Alias bc,calc, Alias bc,calcd, Alias bc,channels, Alias bc,convert, Alias bc,deepbit, Alias bc,diff, Alias bc,diffchange, Alias bc,eligius, Alias bc,estimate, Alias bc,fx, Alias bc,gen, Alias bc,gend, Alias bc,help, Alias bc,hextarget, (1 more message)
1304 2011-07-06 16:32:05 freakazoid has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1305 2011-07-06 16:32:09 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,calc 2000000
1306 2011-07-06 16:32:10 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 4 weeks, 6 days, 6 hours, 43 minutes, and 12 seconds
1307 2011-07-06 16:32:25 btcrowan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1308 2011-07-06 16:32:35 <osmosis> Mad7Scientist, whats your estimaged time to generate a block?
1309 2011-07-06 16:32:37 suriv has joined
1310 2011-07-06 16:32:42 <Mad7Scientist> ^^^
1311 2011-07-06 16:33:05 <osmosis> oic....so about a month. got it
1312 2011-07-06 16:33:07 <Mad7Scientist> It's just that there is no indication in the bitcoin program that the miners are connected and working. The miners show that they are connected.
1313 2011-07-06 16:33:14 <osmosis> Mad7Scientist, you could use another pool? im on eligius
1314 2011-07-06 16:33:19 <Mad7Scientist> well 6 weeks
1315 2011-07-06 16:33:38 <Mad7Scientist> I kinda wanted to do local mining it's just a bit scary not being able to verify
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1317 2011-07-06 16:34:35 <osmosis> Mad7Scientist, i local mined for 6 months...never got a block. I was only at 4000 Khps though
1318 2011-07-06 16:34:50 <osmosis> Mad7Scientist, now i use the pool, and i make some change
1319 2011-07-06 16:34:59 <osmosis> ;;bc,get 4000
1320 2011-07-06 16:35:00 <gribble> Error: "bc,get" is not a valid command.
1321 2011-07-06 16:35:09 <osmosis> ;;bc,gen 4000
1322 2011-07-06 16:35:10 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 4000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 0.00291715198575 BTC per day and 0.000121547999406 BTC per hour.
1323 2011-07-06 16:35:11 <Tamo> Does anyone know of any open source btc escrow scripts?
1324 2011-07-06 16:35:16 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,calc 4000
1325 2011-07-06 16:35:17 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 4000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 46 years, 50 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 7 minutes, and 23 seconds
1326 2011-07-06 16:35:33 <Mad7Scientist> You just didn't wait 46 years
1327 2011-07-06 16:35:55 <Tamo> ;;bc,calc 10000
1328 2011-07-06 16:35:56 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 10000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 18 years, 40 weeks, 6 days, 0 hours, 2 minutes, and 57 seconds
1329 2011-07-06 16:36:02 <osmosis> 6 months ago the difficulty wasnt so much
1330 2011-07-06 16:36:06 btcrowan has joined
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1333 2011-07-06 16:36:43 <gdoteof> so i've got this virtual server that bitcoind outgre
1334 2011-07-06 16:36:44 <gdoteof> w*
1335 2011-07-06 16:37:10 <gdoteof> i think it's fine if it hits swap space, but i'm not sure how to tell *just* bitcoind to use swap, if possible
1336 2011-07-06 16:37:11 sanity has joined
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1338 2011-07-06 16:39:57 <Namegduf> You can't; that kind of control is not available to applications.
1339 2011-07-06 16:40:46 <Namegduf> Virtual memory doesn't work that way.
1340 2011-07-06 16:41:33 <Namegduf> The OS pretends each application has a huge, all in memory, private-to-it memory space, and maps memory access to real locations as necessary, paging things in and out as it wishes.
1341 2011-07-06 16:42:07 <Namegduf> The closest thing you get is the ability to force things to be in RAM on a per-application basis, used for passwords and whatnot, but the application has to use it.
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1352 2011-07-06 16:59:59 <pakiaries> hi
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1358 2011-07-06 17:03:55 <Optimo> nice rebound
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1363 2011-07-06 17:06:55 <ThomasV> hi. anyone has a link to today's aljazeera video on bitcoin ?
1364 2011-07-06 17:07:35 alfakini has joined
1365 2011-07-06 17:07:39 <JFK911> is that why its going up?
1366 2011-07-06 17:07:59 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1367 2011-07-06 17:08:37 SecretSJ has joined
1368 2011-07-06 17:08:59 <asm> deepbit has 50% of all mining capacity: http://bitrigs.com/pools
1369 2011-07-06 17:09:41 Taveren93HGK has joined
1370 2011-07-06 17:10:00 unclemantis_home has joined
1371 2011-07-06 17:10:17 <ThomasV> mining pools should refuse new clients when they reach 33%
1372 2011-07-06 17:10:27 unclemantis_home has left ()
1373 2011-07-06 17:10:43 <asm> not really in their interest ;)
1374 2011-07-06 17:11:04 dan_a has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1375 2011-07-06 17:11:11 <copumpkin> [Tycho]: please don't be bad!
1376 2011-07-06 17:11:16 unclemantis has joined
1377 2011-07-06 17:11:20 <vegard> so, um, does deepbit.net actually load at the moment?
1378 2011-07-06 17:11:32 <unclemantis> Is there an iphone version in the works either jailbroken or not? http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/7/6/bitcoin-android-app-tips/
1379 2011-07-06 17:11:33 <vegard> I seem to be getting: The page you are looking for is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later.
1380 2011-07-06 17:11:46 <copumpkin> everyone join me in asking him not to be bad!
1381 2011-07-06 17:11:52 <asm> haha
1382 2011-07-06 17:11:53 <copumpkin> or if he must be bad, be bad in my favor
1383 2011-07-06 17:11:59 * copumpkin bows
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1400 2011-07-06 17:29:28 <pakiaries> hi
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1406 2011-07-06 17:42:21 <osmosis> are there any graphs/statistics for the growth of bitcoin on github?
1407 2011-07-06 17:42:36 <osmosis> like commits over time, lines of code, contributors
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1412 2011-07-06 17:44:34 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1413 2011-07-06 17:44:37 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135057 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 14 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 hours, 1 minute, and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1566973.05643124
1414 2011-07-06 17:44:41 <diki> d-day soon
1415 2011-07-06 17:46:28 <pakiaries> hi
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1418 2011-07-06 17:47:29 pakiaries2 has joined
1419 2011-07-06 17:47:34 <pakiaries> hello
1420 2011-07-06 17:47:58 <pakiaries> i dont think the log is working
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1436 2011-07-06 18:07:18 <pakiaries> helo
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1441 2011-07-06 18:11:24 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,stats
1442 2011-07-06 18:11:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135058 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 13 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 53 minutes, and 6 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1565696.69993164
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1446 2011-07-06 18:12:57 <pakiaries> he
1447 2011-07-06 18:17:01 altamic has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1448 2011-07-06 18:17:17 pakiaries2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1449 2011-07-06 18:18:22 <Mad7Scientist> Eeach time it says Got IRC my miners all stop
1450 2011-07-06 18:18:35 <Mad7Scientist> IRC got join it says
1451 2011-07-06 18:18:40 <Mad7Scientist> hangs up the whole thing
1452 2011-07-06 18:21:29 Fireball has joined
1453 2011-07-06 18:21:37 Netsniper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1454 2011-07-06 18:21:59 Netsniper has joined
1455 2011-07-06 18:22:02 pakiaries2 has joined
1456 2011-07-06 18:22:03 <pakiaries> hi
1457 2011-07-06 18:22:30 pakiaries2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1458 2011-07-06 18:23:26 slux has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1459 2011-07-06 18:23:53 Pinion has joined
1460 2011-07-06 18:24:47 brunner has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1461 2011-07-06 18:26:14 Zarutian has joined
1462 2011-07-06 18:26:44 huk has joined
1463 2011-07-06 18:27:39 dvide has joined
1464 2011-07-06 18:27:42 koleg has quit (2!kvirc@79.133.143.99|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1465 2011-07-06 18:29:43 justmoon has joined
1466 2011-07-06 18:31:09 <diki> d-day soon
1467 2011-07-06 18:31:15 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1468 2011-07-06 18:31:17 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135059 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 12 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 44 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1564364.54853038
1469 2011-07-06 18:32:42 Ramen has joined
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1471 2011-07-06 18:32:59 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1472 2011-07-06 18:33:00 <Ramen> ;;bc,stats
1473 2011-07-06 18:33:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135059 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 12 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 44 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1564364.54853038
1474 2011-07-06 18:33:23 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1475 2011-07-06 18:36:03 <erus`> who has the most BTC in this chennl?
1476 2011-07-06 18:36:08 <erus`> channel*
1477 2011-07-06 18:36:20 conjre has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1478 2011-07-06 18:36:23 <erus`> i have 1180626
1479 2011-07-06 18:36:27 <erus`> satoshis
1480 2011-07-06 18:36:32 <pakiaries> ;;bc,stats
1481 2011-07-06 18:36:54 <gribble> Current Blocks: timed out | Current Difficulty: timed out | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 11 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 36 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1563563.67702979
1482 2011-07-06 18:41:00 <pakiaries> hi
1483 2011-07-06 18:41:01 pakiaries2 has joined
1484 2011-07-06 18:41:07 <pakiaries> so
1485 2011-07-06 18:41:44 pakiaries2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1486 2011-07-06 18:44:20 pakiaries2 has joined
1487 2011-07-06 18:44:20 <pakiaries> blah
1488 2011-07-06 18:44:51 pakiaries2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1489 2011-07-06 18:45:18 <jgarzik> ;;seen sipa
1490 2011-07-06 18:45:18 <gribble> sipa was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 7 hours, 4 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <sipa> phantomcircuit: i can run 10 threads in parallel continuously doing that call on bitcoind here (also git head)
1491 2011-07-06 18:46:29 <pakiaries> hi
1492 2011-07-06 18:46:30 pakiaries2 has joined
1493 2011-07-06 18:46:35 <pakiaries> i am asif
1494 2011-07-06 18:48:15 liltoe has joined
1495 2011-07-06 18:48:49 pakiaries2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1496 2011-07-06 18:49:06 <Mad7Scientist> How do I make IRC got join go away
1497 2011-07-06 18:49:21 <justmoon> Mad7Scientist, what client are you using?
1498 2011-07-06 18:49:28 pakiaries2 has joined
1499 2011-07-06 18:49:29 <Mad7Scientist> erus`, is a Satoshis 1/1000 ?
1500 2011-07-06 18:49:31 <erus`> does gribble look back through the logs or store every user and their last line?
1501 2011-07-06 18:49:39 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: you are solo mining?
1502 2011-07-06 18:49:43 <erus`> 0.00000001
1503 2011-07-06 18:49:44 <Mad7Scientist> jgarzik,
1504 2011-07-06 18:49:50 <Mad7Scientist> solo mining
1505 2011-07-06 18:49:53 pakiaries2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1506 2011-07-06 18:50:03 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: have you ever solved a block, in the past couple months? :)
1507 2011-07-06 18:50:06 <Mad7Scientist> IRC got join freezes up miners for a few seconds
1508 2011-07-06 18:50:16 <Mad7Scientist> jgarzik, why do you ask?
1509 2011-07-06 18:50:21 <Mad7Scientist> I have been mining for a few hours now
1510 2011-07-06 18:50:33 <erus`> Mad7Scientist: because you dont get paid until you do
1511 2011-07-06 18:50:41 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: because unless you have a data center full of computers, you will never get paid
1512 2011-07-06 18:50:47 <Mad7Scientist> I'll have to wait a month or so to get paid
1513 2011-07-06 18:51:00 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: what is your hash rate?
1514 2011-07-06 18:51:12 <Mad7Scientist> I'll hopefully be at 2.5GH soon
1515 2011-07-06 18:51:37 <Mad7Scientist> im at 1.5 now
1516 2011-07-06 18:51:44 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1517 2011-07-06 18:51:52 <Mad7Scientist> I'm trying to order and make this stupid 240V extension cord
1518 2011-07-06 18:52:03 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: you probably want to mine in a pool, since that is longer than the next difficulty adjustment period
1519 2011-07-06 18:52:14 <Mad7Scientist> $40 for a plug can you imagine
1520 2011-07-06 18:52:23 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: you might -never- get paid, if your luck is below average
1521 2011-07-06 18:52:29 <Mad7Scientist> whet the Dosing ends I'll go back to pool
1522 2011-07-06 18:52:38 <Mad7Scientist> I could get paid today
1523 2011-07-06 18:52:42 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: but to answer your qestion, you can just turn off IRC with -noirc
1524 2011-07-06 18:52:48 <Mad7Scientist> thanks
1525 2011-07-06 18:52:50 Nexus7 has quit ()
1526 2011-07-06 18:52:53 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: yes, you -could-
1527 2011-07-06 18:53:01 <Mad7Scientist> I found the bitcoin help by using grep on the sources
1528 2011-07-06 18:53:10 <Mad7Scientist> but bitcoin --help doesn't seem to do anything
1529 2011-07-06 18:53:27 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: but it is statistically unlikely
1530 2011-07-06 18:53:38 <Mad7Scientist> But the reward would be great
1531 2011-07-06 18:53:45 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: at 12.5 Ghps, we had to switch from solo mining to pool long ago
1532 2011-07-06 18:53:56 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: <shrug> you are gambling, and odds are long
1533 2011-07-06 18:54:25 <Mad7Scientist> 12.5G you would win like every week
1534 2011-07-06 18:54:31 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: wrong
1535 2011-07-06 18:54:53 <Mad7Scientist> well when did you win?
1536 2011-07-06 18:55:12 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: variance is a bitch
1537 2011-07-06 18:55:30 <jgarzik> ;;bc,stats 2500000
1538 2011-07-06 18:55:31 <Mad7Scientist> You could have won right away ...
1539 2011-07-06 18:55:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135063 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 8 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 9 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1564382.35499338
1540 2011-07-06 18:55:52 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: you are a professional gambler, not a scientist, with that logic ;-)
1541 2011-07-06 18:55:52 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,calc 2500000
1542 2011-07-06 18:55:53 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 2500000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1379192.2882281 , is 3 weeks, 6 days, 10 hours, 10 minutes, and 34 seconds
1543 2011-07-06 18:56:01 <Mad7Scientist> gambling is a science
1544 2011-07-06 18:56:12 <Mad7Scientist> and since the casino is rigged so the house wins, it's best not to do it
1545 2011-07-06 18:56:16 <jgarzik> lol
1546 2011-07-06 18:56:17 <Mad7Scientist> but this is different
1547 2011-07-06 18:56:37 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: "You could have won right away" is gambler logic. Hope, not science.
1548 2011-07-06 18:56:53 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: people with far more Ghps than you have concluded otherwise
1549 2011-07-06 18:57:13 <Mad7Scientist> well they don't like variation
1550 2011-07-06 18:57:26 <Mad7Scientist> Just like the poor people around here who call the power company to have them even out their power bill
1551 2011-07-06 18:57:33 <gmaxwell> Mad7Scientist: variation? no. They don't like the risk that they'll get very little.
1552 2011-07-06 18:57:49 <Mad7Scientist> There is a risk that they could get a lot
1553 2011-07-06 18:57:54 <gmaxwell> And they don't feel that the equal and opposite risk of getting very much actually outweighs the risk of very little.
1554 2011-07-06 18:58:00 <jgarzik> variance > diff adjustment period is a -huge- risk
1555 2011-07-06 18:58:13 <gmaxwell> Because when you have no money the first $1 is a LOT more valuable to you than the second one.
1556 2011-07-06 18:58:23 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: Thats ... misleading.
1557 2011-07-06 18:58:23 <Mad7Scientist> wait does everything reset or something on a different adjustment period?
1558 2011-07-06 18:58:35 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: You're promoting a miconception by suggesting that the difficulty change has anything to do with the expected returns. Even if bitcoin were to end completely in 2016 blocks, the expectation is what it is.
1559 2011-07-06 18:58:53 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: The risk is sucky, absolutely, but it's sucky regardless of the difficulty adjustments.
1560 2011-07-06 18:59:28 <gmaxwell> The only effect of the difficulty adjustments is that you can't personally expect to average out 'eventually' but that would have been a bad assumption regardless.
1561 2011-07-06 19:00:40 <erus`> #windows
1562 2011-07-06 19:00:43 <erus`> woops
1563 2011-07-06 19:01:25 <gmaxwell> If you really were indifferent to varience. The a 50% chance at $1000 was exactly as valuable to you as a 100% chance at $500, then you wouldn't pool mine. But real people don't value things like that. And thats okay.
1564 2011-07-06 19:02:52 <gmaxwell> This constant repeating of "if you don't have X power then you can't mine solo" furthers the belief that mining is substantially a race which contributes to the fact that bitcoin's security assumptions are now trivially compromised by super-sized pool operators which have or could easily obtain >50% hash power.
1565 2011-07-06 19:05:14 conjre has joined
1566 2011-07-06 19:05:22 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1567 2011-07-06 19:05:25 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135063 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 8 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 hour, 9 minutes, and 52 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1564382.35499338
1568 2011-07-06 19:07:10 Clipse has joined
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1570 2011-07-06 19:08:54 skEwb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1571 2011-07-06 19:12:08 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1572 2011-07-06 19:12:22 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: You're looking at it from a purely math perspective, which ignores historical experience. Folks such as mystery miner have intentionally brought online hash power before diff adjustment period, and turned off hash power immediately after diff adjustment. Therefore, any miner looking at the ";;bc,calc" number, and thinking that a number > diff adjustment period is -any- reliable predictor of their generatio
1573 2011-07-06 19:12:22 <jgarzik> n probability is deluding themselves.
1574 2011-07-06 19:13:28 peck has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1575 2011-07-06 19:13:39 meLon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1577 2011-07-06 19:13:46 meLon has quit (Changing host)
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1582 2011-07-06 19:14:21 <erus`> if i delete my wallet im not gonna lose my blockchain aswell right
1583 2011-07-06 19:14:51 <justmoon> erus`, no you wont
1584 2011-07-06 19:15:18 <erus`> good good
1585 2011-07-06 19:15:34 <erus`> i tried explaining bitcoin to my old man today and he said "is that like facebook"
1586 2011-07-06 19:15:39 <erus`> i gave up after that
1587 2011-07-06 19:15:59 <gmaxwell> ... sigh. At this instant: You can choose A or B. A gives you $100 with 50% probablity, B gives you $50 with $100 probablity. You may never get to play again. If you consider these options identical, then you'd also not care about e.g. the mystery miner showing up later. The process is memoryless. It's not irrational for people to think this way, if you look at bitcoin as just a fun adventure then perhaps you do value these things equally.
1588 2011-07-06 19:16:08 <jgarzik> erus`: "it is a currency, like US dollar or euro"
1589 2011-07-06 19:16:30 <erus`> yeah i said that lol
1590 2011-07-06 19:16:43 Fireball has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1591 2011-07-06 19:16:48 <erus`> does every client need a copy of the entire blockchain?
1592 2011-07-06 19:17:29 roconnor has joined
1593 2011-07-06 19:17:47 <gmaxwell> Most people don't value those options equally. And thats fine to. But it's not a question of ignoring future risk or "a purely math perspective", it's a question about the relative utility and risk tolerance.
1594 2011-07-06 19:18:04 oozy_burgler has joined
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1596 2011-07-06 19:18:40 oozy_burgler has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1597 2011-07-06 19:18:51 <gmaxwell> There is even a nice argument for solo mining due to _low_ hashpower: If your btc income is so small that continued pooled mining is unlikely to make a meaningful improvement in your life, you might be better off solo for the _chance_ that you'll be lucky which will make an improvement, even though its not likely.
1598 2011-07-06 19:19:11 <erus`> solo mining is a tax on the poor and stupid
1599 2011-07-06 19:19:18 <jgarzik> yep
1600 2011-07-06 19:19:26 oozy_burglar has joined
1601 2011-07-06 19:19:28 <mtrlt> tax?
1602 2011-07-06 19:19:41 <erus`> the lottery is a tax on the poor and stupid
1603 2011-07-06 19:19:43 <mtrlt> lottery is a tax because you lose money
1604 2011-07-06 19:19:51 <mtrlt> but solo mining doesn't really lose your money directly
1605 2011-07-06 19:20:06 <mtrlt> makesnosense
1606 2011-07-06 19:20:08 <gmaxwell> The lottery has negative expectation, mining doesn't (yet, for most people with gpus at least!)
1607 2011-07-06 19:20:36 <mtrlt> yep, that.
1608 2011-07-06 19:20:37 <erus`> dont listen to me guys i really dont know enough about bitcoin :P
1609 2011-07-06 19:20:43 <K_F> presuming excess capacity anyways, not investment in new rigs
1610 2011-07-06 19:20:45 <mtrlt> and it shows.
1611 2011-07-06 19:20:51 peck has joined
1612 2011-07-06 19:21:01 <gmaxwell> now… PPS mining with 10% fees sounds like a tax on the math impaired. :)
1613 2011-07-06 19:21:08 <copumpkin> solo mining is probably better expectation than lottery
1614 2011-07-06 19:21:40 Soak has joined
1615 2011-07-06 19:21:44 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: yes, it's positive. (otherwise pooled mining would be unprofitable too!) Lotteries aren't or they'd go bankrupt. :)
1616 2011-07-06 19:21:50 oozyburglar has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1617 2011-07-06 19:21:53 <justmoon> mining is a business requiring, so unless there are non-monetary incentives for mining it should always have +EV in the long run
1618 2011-07-06 19:22:00 <justmoon> requiring capital*
1619 2011-07-06 19:22:02 <copumpkin> even solo CPU mining, I mean
1620 2011-07-06 19:22:10 <roconnor> I expect the big pools to conspire to eliminate solo mining. I'm surprised it hasn't happend yet.
1621 2011-07-06 19:22:11 <gmaxwell> justmoon: well, not +EV for everyone.
1622 2011-07-06 19:22:14 oozy_burglar is now known as oozyburglar
1623 2011-07-06 19:22:14 pusle has joined
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1625 2011-07-06 19:22:20 <justmoon> gmaxwell, ah you're right
1626 2011-07-06 19:22:23 <K_F> I guess an argument could be made for power consumption, if you were too be pedantic :)
1627 2011-07-06 19:22:26 <copumpkin> oh hi roconnor
1628 2011-07-06 19:22:27 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: if you have modern power efficient CPUs it is at least.
1629 2011-07-06 19:22:46 * copumpkin mines solo on his old 486 dx2
1630 2011-07-06 19:22:53 <copumpkin> it's a blast
1631 2011-07-06 19:22:59 <gmaxwell> Mining breakeven is at (17179869184*diff*kwh)/(719989013671875*exc*mhj)=1
1632 2011-07-06 19:23:06 <roconnor> Hi copumpkin. ... I get to ponder about insane things like: what happens when someone puts a transaction lock on a coinbase transaction.
1633 2011-07-06 19:23:20 <copumpkin> roconnor: coinbase transaction?
1634 2011-07-06 19:23:32 <roconnor> copumpkin: it is a transaction that comes from mining.
1635 2011-07-06 19:23:44 <gmaxwell> (exchange rate (exc) is $/BTC, khw is $/kilowatt-hour, mhj is million hashes per joule)
1636 2011-07-06 19:23:47 <justmoon> copumpkin, the coinbase is the first transaction in each block that pays the miner the 50 BTC out of nowhere
1637 2011-07-06 19:24:00 <roconnor> copumpkin: in principle someone could build a transaction from mining and put a lock on it meaning; don't include it in the chain just yet.
1638 2011-07-06 19:24:02 <copumpkin> ah
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1640 2011-07-06 19:24:05 JunK-Y has joined
1641 2011-07-06 19:24:22 freakazo_ has joined
1642 2011-07-06 19:24:22 <roconnor> so I have to make sure I do whatever bitcoin does in this insane case; just in case.
1643 2011-07-06 19:24:53 <roconnor> really, couldn't satoshi have made a separate type for coinbase transactions.
1644 2011-07-06 19:25:04 <gmaxwell> roconnor: I'd _assume_ that the same check which validates the locktime is also applied there.
1645 2011-07-06 19:25:10 agricocb has joined
1646 2011-07-06 19:25:10 <gmaxwell> meh, more special case code to be broken.
1647 2011-07-06 19:25:12 <copumpkin> by satoshi's grace, bitcoin v2 will have that
1648 2011-07-06 19:25:14 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1649 2011-07-06 19:25:14 freakazo_ is now known as freakazoid
1650 2011-07-06 19:25:31 <copumpkin> (much like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icTrzUuWlHI)
1651 2011-07-06 19:25:47 <roconnor> gmaxwell: OTOH it eliminates all the checking that there is only 1 coinbase transaction and that it is the first one.
1652 2011-07-06 19:25:50 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1653 2011-07-06 19:25:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135066 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 5 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 43 minutes and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1563737.12959381
1654 2011-07-06 19:27:32 <zamgo> tick tock
1655 2011-07-06 19:27:36 Happy0 has joined
1656 2011-07-06 19:28:40 <erus`> copumpkin: LOL
1657 2011-07-06 19:28:50 <erus`> i htought i had seen all of mitchel and webb
1658 2011-07-06 19:30:40 <erus`> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKTsWjbjQ8E haha
1659 2011-07-06 19:31:03 <makomk> roconnor: yeah, I see why that might be a problem...
1660 2011-07-06 19:31:17 <roconnor> makomk: what?
1661 2011-07-06 19:31:43 <makomk> Handling locktime on coinbase transactions differently from the official client.
1662 2011-07-06 19:31:56 <roconnor> yep
1663 2011-07-06 19:32:09 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1664 2011-07-06 19:32:12 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135066 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 5 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 43 minutes and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1563737.12959381
1665 2011-07-06 19:32:20 <roconnor> it's hard to get things right in cases that are irrelevent.
1666 2011-07-06 19:32:40 * roconnor fixes his client to check the lock on coinbase transactions
1667 2011-07-06 19:34:14 warpi has joined
1668 2011-07-06 19:35:02 <roconnor> One day I'll make a large test suite
1669 2011-07-06 19:35:23 <copumpkin> pff, you're a coq users
1670 2011-07-06 19:35:24 <copumpkin> -s
1671 2011-07-06 19:35:34 <copumpkin> don't make a large test suite, reimplement it in coq and prove it correct
1672 2011-07-06 19:35:37 <roconnor> One day I'll reimplement this in Agda.
1673 2011-07-06 19:35:44 <copumpkin> I thought you didn't like agda
1674 2011-07-06 19:36:02 <roconnor> well, it is hard to prove thing in Agda
1675 2011-07-06 19:36:15 <roconnor> but maybe it is easier to program
1676 2011-07-06 19:36:23 <copumpkin> yeah, probably
1677 2011-07-06 19:37:01 <erus`> roconnor: hows your client coming along?
1678 2011-07-06 19:37:13 dbasch has joined
1679 2011-07-06 19:37:39 <roconnor> erus`: pretty well
1680 2011-07-06 19:37:45 <roconnor> ask copumpkin :)
1681 2011-07-06 19:38:00 <erus`> is it on github?
1682 2011-07-06 19:38:08 <copumpkin> I haven't had time to play with it yet! but it appeared to be working a couple of weeks ago when I last checked :)
1683 2011-07-06 19:38:22 <roconnor> erus`: nope. But I'm slowing moving it into a darcs repo
1684 2011-07-06 19:38:49 * roconnor thinks his isFinalTx code isn't right
1685 2011-07-06 19:38:53 <diki> i added a few features to cgminer
1686 2011-07-06 19:38:57 <erus`> are there free darks hosts?
1687 2011-07-06 19:38:58 <diki> like telling me which thread got work
1688 2011-07-06 19:39:07 <erus`> darcs....
1689 2011-07-06 19:39:10 <diki> when it found a hash, what was the nonce it was found with, and the hash itself
1690 2011-07-06 19:39:17 <roconnor> erus`: I'm not sure, but you can grab my repo: darcs get http://r6.ca/Purecoin
1691 2011-07-06 19:39:32 <copumpkin> erus`: patch-tag and darcsden, as far as I know
1692 2011-07-06 19:39:41 Fuehrer has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1693 2011-07-06 19:39:50 altamic has joined
1694 2011-07-06 19:40:00 <roconnor> copumpkin: is there reason to use them instead of my own host?
1695 2011-07-06 19:40:06 <copumpkin> not really
1696 2011-07-06 19:40:54 <roconnor> erus`: but I have more code than what is in there at the moment.
1697 2011-07-06 19:41:06 <erus`> roconnor: mirror on github
1698 2011-07-06 19:41:15 <erus`> you will get much more attention
1699 2011-07-06 19:41:25 <roconnor> I'm not sure I want much more attention :D
1700 2011-07-06 19:42:06 <jrmithdobbs> roconnor: is that that .net monstrosity?
1701 2011-07-06 19:42:08 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
1702 2011-07-06 19:42:42 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1703 2011-07-06 19:42:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135066 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 5 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 43 minutes and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1563737.12959381
1704 2011-07-06 19:42:46 <jrmithdobbs> oh haskell, sorry, didn't mean to insult you like that
1705 2011-07-06 19:42:56 freakazoid has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1706 2011-07-06 19:42:58 <diki> after block 5 is found...
1707 2011-07-06 19:43:03 <diki> the next will come rather faster
1708 2011-07-06 19:43:13 <roconnor> :)
1709 2011-07-06 19:43:16 <erus`> Don't we all like .net now?
1710 2011-07-06 19:43:20 <erus`> I can't keep up
1711 2011-07-06 19:43:25 freakazoid has joined
1712 2011-07-06 19:43:35 bittwist has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1713 2011-07-06 19:43:51 <roconnor> diki: how do you mean?
1714 2011-07-06 19:44:30 meLon has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1715 2011-07-06 19:44:38 meLon has joined
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1717 2011-07-06 19:44:38 meLon has joined
1718 2011-07-06 19:44:49 <diki> on avg -> a few fast blocks, a harder one, normal speed/faster speed
1719 2011-07-06 19:45:13 <roconnor> why would there be a few fast block?
1720 2011-07-06 19:45:17 Fireball has joined
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1722 2011-07-06 19:45:17 Fireball has joined
1723 2011-07-06 19:45:19 <jrmithdobbs> erus`: no why would we
1724 2011-07-06 19:45:30 <jrmithdobbs> and by we i mean anyone sane
1725 2011-07-06 19:45:33 <erus`> f# and mono and stuff
1726 2011-07-06 19:45:48 <diki> roconnor:the last two blocks were found in under 5 minutes
1727 2011-07-06 19:45:50 genjix has joined
1728 2011-07-06 19:46:08 <roconnor> yes, but that was only due to random chance
1729 2011-07-06 19:46:28 genjix has left ()
1730 2011-07-06 19:47:05 <diki> need doctor diki say nothing is random?
1731 2011-07-06 19:47:41 <copumpkin> ick
1732 2011-07-06 19:47:42 <copumpkin> no .net
1733 2011-07-06 19:47:54 <copumpkin> roconnor: come work with us!
1734 2011-07-06 19:48:05 <roconnor> I'm tempted
1735 2011-07-06 19:48:05 <copumpkin> I know edwardk already bugged you plenty :P
1736 2011-07-06 19:48:13 <copumpkin> but I'll add to the pressure too
1737 2011-07-06 19:48:14 <roconnor> but I don't want to move to Boston
1738 2011-07-06 19:48:17 <copumpkin> aw
1739 2011-07-06 19:48:22 huk has quit ()
1740 2011-07-06 19:48:36 warpi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1741 2011-07-06 19:48:39 <roconnor> why not relocate to Canada, where our national currency is actually worth something ;)
1742 2011-07-06 19:48:50 <copumpkin> or to bitcoinia!
1743 2011-07-06 19:48:55 <roconnor> SeaLand!
1744 2011-07-06 19:48:57 <copumpkin> :P
1745 2011-07-06 19:49:21 <copumpkin> or we could take over http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inaccessible_Island
1746 2011-07-06 19:49:22 <diki> dikiland
1747 2011-07-06 19:49:24 dbasch has quit (Quit: dbasch)
1748 2011-07-06 19:49:35 <copumpkin> I doubt they'd even bother taking it back if we conquered it
1749 2011-07-06 19:49:51 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
1750 2011-07-06 19:50:01 <diki> if you dont name it dikiland, i will come and make it so("make it so" is a reference to start trek)
1751 2011-07-06 19:50:03 <K_F> didn't a casino buy Sealand?
1752 2011-07-06 19:51:09 TheZimm has joined
1753 2011-07-06 19:52:24 huk has joined
1754 2011-07-06 19:52:43 <copumpkin> beats me :)
1755 2011-07-06 19:53:30 <copumpkin> roconnor: proving stuff about hashing seems tricky... you'd have to prove that the probability of something bad is no better than if you were guessing randomly, in most cases, I guess?
1756 2011-07-06 19:54:17 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1757 2011-07-06 19:54:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135067 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 4 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 35 minutes and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1562170.78188470
1758 2011-07-06 19:54:22 <roconnor> copumpkin: I'd be happy enough to prove that the number of coins in ciruclation is always correct. :)
1759 2011-07-06 19:54:38 <copumpkin> well, coins can get permanently lost
1760 2011-07-06 19:54:45 <copumpkin> or you mean the number generated?
1761 2011-07-06 19:54:59 <roconnor> the sum of all the outstanding Outputs
1762 2011-07-06 19:55:24 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1763 2011-07-06 19:55:27 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135067 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 4 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 35 minutes and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1562170.78188470
1764 2011-07-06 19:56:29 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1765 2011-07-06 19:56:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135067 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 4 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 35 minutes and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1562170.78188470
1766 2011-07-06 19:56:35 dan_a has joined
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1768 2011-07-06 19:57:46 <Ramen> 4 more to go
1769 2011-07-06 19:57:55 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1770 2011-07-06 19:57:58 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1771 2011-07-06 19:58:00 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135068 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 3 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 26 minutes and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1562441.61323740
1772 2011-07-06 19:58:06 <roconnor> copumpkin: sometimes I'm tempted to use ViewPatterns
1773 2011-07-06 19:58:07 <diki> like i said...the next will be fast
1774 2011-07-06 19:58:13 <copumpkin> oh, I love view patterns
1775 2011-07-06 19:58:21 <copumpkin> and pattern guards (which are part of h2010)
1776 2011-07-06 19:58:29 <copumpkin> both of them are lots of fun, especially with GADTs
1777 2011-07-06 19:58:48 <roconnor> copumpkin: I have a bunch of functions designed to be used with them.
1778 2011-07-06 19:59:26 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1779 2011-07-06 19:59:39 <roconnor> lockView, headTailView, opView ...
1780 2011-07-06 19:59:49 <copumpkin> :o
1781 2011-07-06 20:00:01 <roconnor> actually I think that is it at the moment
1782 2011-07-06 20:00:15 puhc has joined
1783 2011-07-06 20:00:22 <copumpkin> I can imagine what headTailView does :)
1784 2011-07-06 20:00:25 <copumpkin> what are the other two?
1785 2011-07-06 20:00:35 <roconnor> copumpkin: but I don't acutally use view patterns. I just write:
1786 2011-07-06 20:00:36 <b4epoche> "The island has guano deposits"
1787 2011-07-06 20:00:40 <roconnor> sFinalTx blockNum blockTime (lock, _) = go (lockView lock)
1788 2011-07-06 20:00:48 <roconnor> ...
1789 2011-07-06 20:01:02 <copumpkin> roconnor: why not pattern guards, at least, since they're officially part of the standard now?
1790 2011-07-06 20:01:14 <copumpkin> oh, are these recursive?
1791 2011-07-06 20:01:19 <b4epoche> Inaccessible Island that is...
1792 2011-07-06 20:01:39 <b4epoche> guana coins
1793 2011-07-06 20:01:42 <pakiaries> blah
1794 2011-07-06 20:01:42 pakiaries2 has joined
1795 2011-07-06 20:01:43 <b4epoche> o
1796 2011-07-06 20:01:43 <roconnor> copumpkin: lockView decomposes a Lock into either Unlocked, or a LockTime, or a LockBlock
1797 2011-07-06 20:02:13 <roconnor> copumpkin: It allows you to pattern match, without exposing the actuall constructors (which would allow users to create invalid data)
1798 2011-07-06 20:02:21 pakiaries2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1799 2011-07-06 20:02:26 pakiaries2 has joined
1800 2011-07-06 20:02:28 <pakiaries> he
1801 2011-07-06 20:02:42 <copumpkin> roconnor: I see why you'd do that, but why not use pattern guards (or view patterns, ideally)
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1804 2011-07-06 20:03:02 <copumpkin> the go pattern is common for the static argument transformation on recursive functions
1805 2011-07-06 20:03:12 <roconnor> I guess I'd be fine with pattern guards.
1806 2011-07-06 20:03:13 <copumpkin> but your example doesn't look recursive
1807 2011-07-06 20:03:24 <copumpkin> is your issue with view patterns just that it's an extension?
1808 2011-07-06 20:03:43 <roconnor> ya, I just end up using go whenever I need to refine the actual inputs before doing the actual main body of the function.
1809 2011-07-06 20:03:50 <roconnor> yes that is my issue.
1810 2011-07-06 20:03:56 <copumpkin> ah
1811 2011-07-06 20:04:08 <roconnor> what if people want to build using Jhc or Yhc?
1812 2011-07-06 20:04:10 <copumpkin> very noble of you :P
1813 2011-07-06 20:04:19 <copumpkin> most of my projects turn on a dozen extensions or so
1814 2011-07-06 20:04:38 gim has joined
1815 2011-07-06 20:07:12 * roconnor thinks he fixed his problem with isFinalTx
1816 2011-07-06 20:08:07 <jgarzik> Bitcoin 0.3.24 release candidate #3 uploaded. Please test. http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25515.msg333136#msg333136
1817 2011-07-06 20:08:13 <roconnor> These non-final transactions are very interesting
1818 2011-07-06 20:08:24 <roconnor> I'm starting to vaguely see their purpose.
1819 2011-07-06 20:08:38 conjre has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1820 2011-07-06 20:09:07 <roconnor> but not entirely :P
1821 2011-07-06 20:10:31 mrtn_ is now known as mrtn
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1825 2011-07-06 20:11:56 <diki> like i said...the next will be fast
1826 2011-07-06 20:11:59 <diki> oops
1827 2011-07-06 20:12:00 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: what changed in rc3?
1828 2011-07-06 20:12:01 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1829 2011-07-06 20:12:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135068 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 3 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 26 minutes and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1562441.61323740
1830 2011-07-06 20:12:23 <jgarzik> jrmithdobbs: RTFL
1831 2011-07-06 20:12:37 RobinPKR has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1834 2011-07-06 20:15:01 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1835 2011-07-06 20:15:03 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135069 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 2 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 17 minutes and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1561729.21741304
1836 2011-07-06 20:15:07 <diki> i knew it
1837 2011-07-06 20:15:31 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1838 2011-07-06 20:15:46 jzknight has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1839 2011-07-06 20:15:59 <diki> i knew it
1840 2011-07-06 20:16:01 <diki> ;;bc,stats
1841 2011-07-06 20:16:04 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135069 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 2 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 17 minutes and 34 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1561729.21741304
1842 2011-07-06 20:16:05 <jrmithdobbs> shut up
1843 2011-07-06 20:16:11 <diki> history man, history
1844 2011-07-06 20:16:20 karnac has joined
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1849 2011-07-06 20:22:31 <osmosis> is it true that difficulty never goes down? so even if people stop mining, the difficulty wont be decreased?
1850 2011-07-06 20:22:49 Fireball has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1851 2011-07-06 20:22:54 <BlueMatt> that is patent ably wrong
1852 2011-07-06 20:23:10 <BlueMatt> diff can go down just as much as it can go u[p
1853 2011-07-06 20:23:17 <BlueMatt> s/[//
1854 2011-07-06 20:24:23 Fireball has joined
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1859 2011-07-06 20:26:09 <makomk> Can go down, just is unlikely to in practice.
1860 2011-07-06 20:26:23 <AlonzoTG> DEBIT!
1861 2011-07-06 20:26:58 <AlonzoTG> =(
1862 2011-07-06 20:27:45 <AlonzoTG> (When someone exclaims DEBIT! you are supposed to respond "CREDIT!", to which someone else is obliged to say "DEBIT!" and so on and so forth. =(
1863 2011-07-06 20:28:46 <upb> lol
1864 2011-07-06 20:29:12 the22mafia has joined
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1869 2011-07-06 20:30:59 <erus`> can i set -server up in the .conf somehow?
1870 2011-07-06 20:31:02 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
1871 2011-07-06 20:31:06 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135071 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1563027.99611622
1872 2011-07-06 20:31:10 <erus`> like allways on server
1873 2011-07-06 20:32:30 * roconnor wonders if that non-sensical output of gribble is due to that minor bug in bitcoin's difficulty timespan calculation
1874 2011-07-06 20:32:37 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1875 2011-07-06 20:32:40 <WildSoil> did difficult changed ?
1876 2011-07-06 20:32:56 <MrSam> hmm
1877 2011-07-06 20:33:05 <MrSam> i tought it was going to 1563027
1878 2011-07-06 20:33:11 <MrSam> "difficulty" : 1379192.28822808,
1879 2011-07-06 20:33:59 <gjs278> can you guys read
1880 2011-07-06 20:34:03 <jgarzik> rofl
1881 2011-07-06 20:34:09 <WildSoil> no
1882 2011-07-06 20:34:36 sipa has joined
1883 2011-07-06 20:34:40 <roconnor> it says that the difficulty will change in 0 more blocks and it will take a week and 5 days to produce these 0 blocks
1884 2011-07-06 20:35:02 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1885 2011-07-06 20:35:10 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135071 | Current Difficulty: 1379192.2882281 | Next Difficulty At Block: 135071 | Next Difficulty In: 0 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 6 hours, 33 minutes, and 36 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1563027.99611622
1886 2011-07-06 20:35:19 <gjs278> the bot is busy hashing the last block, it doesn't have time to respond
1887 2011-07-06 20:35:25 <shLONG> has anyone developed a bitcoin daemon for beagleboard or arduino?
1888 2011-07-06 20:35:36 <WildSoil> bot is pussy
1889 2011-07-06 20:35:43 <WildSoil> not busy
1890 2011-07-06 20:35:54 <shLONG> seemins as webservers are popular on beagleboard and arduino it would be nice if one could run the bitcoin deamon on them
1891 2011-07-06 20:36:34 hahuang6_ has joined
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1893 2011-07-06 20:40:25 <MrSam> "difficulty" : 1563027.99611622,
1894 2011-07-06 20:40:26 <MrSam> :)
1895 2011-07-06 20:40:47 cryptocnt has joined
1896 2011-07-06 20:41:16 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r136 /branches/peergroup/src/com/google/bitcoin/ (7 files in 2 dirs): PeerGroup first draft http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r136/
1897 2011-07-06 20:41:37 <MrSam> ;;bc,stats
1898 2011-07-06 20:41:41 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135073 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 2014 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 10 hours, 41 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6252138.64834896
1899 2011-07-06 20:41:42 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r137 /branches/peergroup/src/com/google/bitcoin/ (3 files in 2 dirs): PeerGroup first draft - new files http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r137/
1900 2011-07-06 20:41:55 pakiaries2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1901 2011-07-06 20:41:59 <MrSam> 6252138.64834896? :)
1902 2011-07-06 20:42:44 <diki> needs to adjust
1903 2011-07-06 20:42:49 <diki> but still...two blocks already??
1904 2011-07-06 20:42:53 Soak has quit ()
1905 2011-07-06 20:44:11 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r138 /branches/peergroup/src/com/google/bitcoin/ (3 files in 2 dirs): PeerGroup - fix copyright and text http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r138/
1906 2011-07-06 20:44:37 <Ramen> ;;bc,stats
1907 2011-07-06 20:44:40 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135074 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 2013 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 11 hours, 18 minutes, and 57 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6252138.64834896
1908 2011-07-06 20:44:53 suriv_ has joined
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1910 2011-07-06 20:45:14 <Ramen> weee 6252138.64834896 epic win
1911 2011-07-06 20:45:20 denisx has joined
1912 2011-07-06 20:45:27 <Ramen> in 3 days lol
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1920 2011-07-06 20:50:41 <marvin_> ;;bc,stats
1921 2011-07-06 20:50:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135075 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 2012 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 10 hours, 11 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 6252138.64834896
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1931 2011-07-06 21:00:08 <rlifchitz> ;;bc,stats
1932 2011-07-06 21:00:11 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135076 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 2011 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 16 hours, 50 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 5817740.88872427
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1936 2011-07-06 21:01:14 <MrSam> difficulty 6m ?
1937 2011-07-06 21:01:14 <MrSam> http://make-everything-ok.com/
1938 2011-07-06 21:01:43 Infraworst has joined
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1943 2011-07-06 21:04:30 <Mad7Scientist> ;;bc,stats
1944 2011-07-06 21:04:33 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135076 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 2011 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 16 hours, 50 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 5817740.88872427
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1959 2011-07-06 21:17:24 <Incitatus> hey guys, we (the people from Britcoin) opened a EUR exchange today at www.intersango.com
1960 2011-07-06 21:17:50 suriv has joined
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1966 2011-07-06 21:20:46 <xenland> Whats up mates i cant find out for the life of y why pushpool continues to say "mysql pswd error at fetch" do u think its a linux user permission touse mysql? I already have my sql users with full access for testing.
1967 2011-07-06 21:20:48 Fireball has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1968 2011-07-06 21:20:59 <workbench> britcoin.... quite funny;P
1969 2011-07-06 21:21:12 <Mad7Scientist> I only have 22 connections, is that because of -noirc?
1970 2011-07-06 21:21:47 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: possibly. is your incoming port 8333 accurate? do you, perhaps, need to forward port 8333 on your router, or turn on -upnp?
1971 2011-07-06 21:21:54 hahuang6_ has quit ()
1972 2011-07-06 21:22:41 <jgarzik> Incitatus: have any trades occurred yet? you should contact tcatm and make sure it is listed on bitcoincharts and bitcoinwatch
1973 2011-07-06 21:22:57 xenland has quit (Client Quit)
1974 2011-07-06 21:23:26 <Mad7Scientist> jgarzik, it's the default port with no firewall
1975 2011-07-06 21:23:28 evelyn66 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1976 2011-07-06 21:23:40 <Mad7Scientist> it has 22 connections before it had 110 connections
1977 2011-07-06 21:25:31 <tcatm> Incitatus, jgarzik: already added. It should appear on both sites as soon as the first trade happens.
1978 2011-07-06 21:25:45 <Mad7Scientist> does the 0.001 donation slow it down?
1979 2011-07-06 21:26:08 Infraworst has joined
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1985 2011-07-06 21:30:15 <erus`> guys, what should params look like in a jsonrpc request (if its not empty)
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1987 2011-07-06 21:30:36 <erus`> just "params":["first", "second"] ??
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1989 2011-07-06 21:35:35 <jgarzik> erus`: yep
1990 2011-07-06 21:35:39 <jgarzik> Mad7Scientist: no
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2049 2011-07-06 22:19:32 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
2050 2011-07-06 22:19:36 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135084 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 2003 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 10 hours, 17 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 2059395.62787979
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2058 2011-07-06 22:26:52 <RBecker> ;;bc,stats
2059 2011-07-06 22:26:55 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135086 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 2001 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 6 hours, 14 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 2266719.27299715
2060 2011-07-06 22:27:21 <kinlo> not looking good
2061 2011-07-06 22:27:21 Fireball has joined
2062 2011-07-06 22:27:30 <kinlo> we have too much mining power
2063 2011-07-06 22:28:09 <Eliel_> that estimate is overblown.
2064 2011-07-06 22:28:11 <phantomcircuit> sipa, im pretty sure accounts in git head are broken
2065 2011-07-06 22:28:21 <phantomcircuit> try and deposit btc into an address in an account
2066 2011-07-06 22:28:58 <phantomcircuit> goes into default account
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2070 2011-07-06 22:34:17 <sipa> phantomcircuit: that's pretty serious
2071 2011-07-06 22:34:40 <phantomcircuit> looks like listtransactions is broken actually one sec let me investigate more
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2076 2011-07-06 22:36:04 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i restarted and now they're in the proper accounts
2077 2011-07-06 22:36:09 nemesis51 has joined
2078 2011-07-06 22:36:10 <phantomcircuit> so there is a serious bug there
2079 2011-07-06 22:36:14 nidefawl has joined
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2082 2011-07-06 22:37:49 <phantomcircuit> also i just sent a bitcoin and it hasn't even reached the bitcoincharts.com list of unconfirmed transactions
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2096 2011-07-06 22:41:18 <phantomcircuit> no me gusta
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2102 2011-07-06 22:43:03 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i just did a transaction, reaches bitcoincharts fine
2103 2011-07-06 22:43:13 massive56 has joined
2104 2011-07-06 22:43:18 <sipa> which doesn't mean anything of course
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2109 2011-07-06 22:44:43 <tcatm> well it means the transaction is valid and made is known to the network. bitcoincharts is connected to > 800 nodes
2110 2011-07-06 22:44:44 <sipa> phantomcircuit: can you find out since which commit the problem exists?
2111 2011-07-06 22:45:04 <sipa> tcatm: no i mean: it's not because i can do a valid transaction, that there is no bug
2112 2011-07-06 22:45:16 <phantomcircuit> well that doesn't mean it's not a bug
2113 2011-07-06 22:45:38 <sipa> exactly
2114 2011-07-06 22:45:45 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2115 2011-07-06 22:46:04 <sipa> still, if i can't reproduce it, it's hard to find
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2126 2011-07-06 22:50:33 <phantomcircuit> sipa, the first bug should be easy enough to reproduce
2127 2011-07-06 22:54:11 MC1984 has joined
2128 2011-07-06 22:56:02 <sipa> phantomcircuit: testing it
2129 2011-07-06 22:56:03 noagendamarket has joined
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2131 2011-07-06 22:57:47 <sipa> phantomcircuit: not sure it's not related to having no confirmations
2132 2011-07-06 22:57:55 torsthaldo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2133 2011-07-06 22:58:27 <phantomcircuit> sipa, no they had 10/9/8
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2138 2011-07-06 23:01:16 <OppieT30> Someone should make it so it can be ran on a gaming system, like the xbox or playstation.
2139 2011-07-06 23:01:41 <MrSam> ps3 and xbox360 are actually both old hardware
2140 2011-07-06 23:02:04 <OppieT30> Ok
2141 2011-07-06 23:02:23 <lfm> OppieT30: could run bitcoind on xbox prolly not too hard. not poin mining tho
2142 2011-07-06 23:03:38 erus` has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])
2143 2011-07-06 23:06:56 <lfm> bc,mtgox
2144 2011-07-06 23:07:10 <sipa> phantomcircuit: had any chance to test it with earlier versions?
2145 2011-07-06 23:07:44 <phantomcircuit> im waiting for this transaction to clear
2146 2011-07-06 23:08:48 adulau has joined
2147 2011-07-06 23:09:00 <sipa> ok, works perfectly here
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2149 2011-07-06 23:09:05 cdecker has left ()
2150 2011-07-06 23:09:14 <sipa> i have two unconfirmed transaction to the same account address here
2151 2011-07-06 23:09:21 Lachesis has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2152 2011-07-06 23:09:24 <sipa> one before client restarted, one after
2153 2011-07-06 23:09:32 <sipa> getbalance "acc" shows both
2154 2011-07-06 23:09:39 dbasch has joined
2155 2011-07-06 23:10:33 <phantomcircuit> sipa, strange
2156 2011-07-06 23:11:18 <sipa> and i am on 0.3.24rc2
2157 2011-07-06 23:11:20 <sipa> eh rc3
2158 2011-07-06 23:11:23 <phantomcircuit> sipa, http://pastebin.com/EiKE7Phi
2159 2011-07-06 23:11:47 <phantomcircuit> getaccount fails also
2160 2011-07-06 23:12:38 <sipa> always, or only before restart?
2161 2011-07-06 23:13:16 <sipa> works fine here
2162 2011-07-06 23:13:56 <sipa> how did you create the account's address? getaccountaddress?
2163 2011-07-06 23:15:44 dbitcoin_ has joined
2164 2011-07-06 23:16:04 <jgarzik> sipa: want me to add your email address and/or PGP public key to bitcoin.org front page?
2165 2011-07-06 23:16:05 <phantomcircuit> sipa, getnewaddress
2166 2011-07-06 23:16:13 <phantomcircuit> getaccountaddress stalled the rpc
2167 2011-07-06 23:16:36 dbitcoin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2168 2011-07-06 23:17:11 <sipa> jgarzik: not for now, don't feel like getting extra email as well
2169 2011-07-06 23:17:24 Raccoon has quit ()
2170 2011-07-06 23:17:35 <jgarzik> sipa: ok
2171 2011-07-06 23:18:27 <phantomcircuit> sipa, http://pastebin.com/NASuCYUH
2172 2011-07-06 23:18:32 <phantomcircuit> exact same txid
2173 2011-07-06 23:18:37 <phantomcircuit> different accounts
2174 2011-07-06 23:18:38 <phantomcircuit> :|
2175 2011-07-06 23:19:12 sacredchao has joined
2176 2011-07-06 23:19:46 <sipa> phantomcircuit: somehow i suspect there's something strange with your wallet
2177 2011-07-06 23:20:07 <sipa> but all my tests work fine
2178 2011-07-06 23:20:30 <phantomcircuit> brand new wallet
2179 2011-07-06 23:20:49 <sipa> :S
2180 2011-07-06 23:22:48 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2181 2011-07-06 23:23:00 <sipa> phantomcircuit: which other patches are you running?
2182 2011-07-06 23:23:16 <sipa> '"amount" : "200000000"' does not come from 0.3.24rc3
2183 2011-07-06 23:23:20 <phantomcircuit> removed all the upnp code
2184 2011-07-06 23:23:23 <phantomcircuit> plus
2185 2011-07-06 23:23:34 <phantomcircuit> https://gitorious.org/intersango/bitcoind/commit/665294c486f1eba1bcd84025a42fa5e2886a89a9
2186 2011-07-06 23:23:57 kreal- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2187 2011-07-06 23:24:11 <sipa> that shouldn't affect it
2188 2011-07-06 23:24:30 <sipa> but please, can you find since which commit the problems appear?
2189 2011-07-06 23:24:45 <phantomcircuit> if someone sends me some testnet coins
2190 2011-07-06 23:24:48 semarjt has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2191 2011-07-06 23:25:24 <sipa> hmm, have none here
2192 2011-07-06 23:25:48 <gim> testnet faucet has some no?
2193 2011-07-06 23:25:58 kreal- has joined
2194 2011-07-06 23:26:10 <jgarzik> yeah I'd see if it could be reproduced on unpatched bitcoind first
2195 2011-07-06 23:26:14 <phantomcircuit> 0.11 per visit
2196 2011-07-06 23:26:15 <phantomcircuit> lol
2197 2011-07-06 23:26:19 <jgarzik> who knows what's in the highly patched version
2198 2011-07-06 23:26:20 estornudo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2199 2011-07-06 23:26:37 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i just posted the gitorious
2200 2011-07-06 23:26:44 Raccoon has joined
2201 2011-07-06 23:26:44 <phantomcircuit> it's git head + no upnp + that
2202 2011-07-06 23:27:09 <sipa> that sounds reasonably safe
2203 2011-07-06 23:27:42 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2204 2011-07-06 23:28:04 <sipa> but i need sleep now
2205 2011-07-06 23:28:10 <sipa> hope you find something
2206 2011-07-06 23:28:12 NickelBot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2207 2011-07-06 23:28:39 pakiaries2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2208 2011-07-06 23:30:43 <phantomcircuit> really
2209 2011-07-06 23:30:50 Superbest has quit (Quit: It's time to man up and end this)
2210 2011-07-06 23:30:55 <phantomcircuit> faucet has 500 testnet btc
2211 2011-07-06 23:31:00 <phantomcircuit> and only gives 0.11 /visit
2212 2011-07-06 23:32:32 <BlueMatt> you can test just as much with 0.01 as you can with 5000
2213 2011-07-06 23:32:40 <DaQatz> Thunderstorm rolling in, so I need to roll out.
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2215 2011-07-06 23:33:12 <justmoon> phantomcircuit, get the pitchforks, I'll get the torches
2216 2011-07-06 23:33:19 <phantomcircuit> lol
2217 2011-07-06 23:33:28 <phantomcircuit> how many blocks are in testnet?
2218 2011-07-06 23:33:31 Glasswalker has joined
2219 2011-07-06 23:33:41 <justmoon> 30000 something
2220 2011-07-06 23:33:43 <gim> "blocks" : 30424,
2221 2011-07-06 23:33:44 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2222 2011-07-06 23:34:45 sipa has left ()
2223 2011-07-06 23:35:04 num1 has joined
2224 2011-07-06 23:35:08 SeaBlue has joined
2225 2011-07-06 23:35:10 <num1> hey, what's up with http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=85353491
2226 2011-07-06 23:35:16 <SeaBlue> ok
2227 2011-07-06 23:35:25 <SeaBlue> I'm not sure I understand the whole bitcoin thing
2228 2011-07-06 23:35:53 <SeaBlue> can someone explain the mining thing?
2229 2011-07-06 23:36:07 <num1> SeaBlue #bitcoin
2230 2011-07-06 23:36:41 <MrSam> SeaBlue: it's like free money
2231 2011-07-06 23:36:42 <num1> but in essence, you're doing work, then you get coins in exchange for the work you've done
2232 2011-07-06 23:36:44 <MrSam> :P
2233 2011-07-06 23:36:44 <phantomcircuit> he isn't identified
2234 2011-07-06 23:36:57 <phantomcircuit> SeaBlue, sure i can explain, just how much do you know
2235 2011-07-06 23:37:31 <MrSam> SeaBlue: did you allready made an account at http://www.triplemining.com ?
2236 2011-07-06 23:37:59 <SeaBlue> ok I guess my question is what sort of "work" is it a way for companies to use shared computing power or something?
2237 2011-07-06 23:38:30 <MrSam> SeaBlue: no it is a way for the system to verify it's own transactions
2238 2011-07-06 23:38:38 <MrSam> no not like SETI or so
2239 2011-07-06 23:38:48 <SeaBlue> hmmm
2240 2011-07-06 23:39:09 <SeaBlue> so it pays you to track it's transaction
2241 2011-07-06 23:39:20 <jgarzik> SeaBlue: everyone is competing against one another, working on the same problem: verifying 10 minutes worth of bitcoin transactions.
2242 2011-07-06 23:39:27 <SeaBlue> ah
2243 2011-07-06 23:39:35 <SeaBlue> first 1 done gets the coin?
2244 2011-07-06 23:39:58 <MrSam> 50 actually
2245 2011-07-06 23:39:59 <phantomcircuit> MrSam, why would you ask that
2246 2011-07-06 23:40:02 <MrSam> an transaction fee's
2247 2011-07-06 23:40:15 <MrSam> phantomcircuit: a salesguy sees an opportunity when it presents itself :P
2248 2011-07-06 23:40:22 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
2249 2011-07-06 23:40:31 <MrSam> ENOCARE ;)
2250 2011-07-06 23:40:34 <SeaBlue> what is the transaction fee?
2251 2011-07-06 23:40:47 <SeaBlue> is it drawn from the coins earned?
2252 2011-07-06 23:40:50 estornudo has joined
2253 2011-07-06 23:40:51 <MrSam> http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000000006cc79fadb036771cf2b7473162cf798c7785bc65be26b0419d6
2254 2011-07-06 23:40:51 <SeaBlue> or actual cash?
2255 2011-07-06 23:41:08 <MrSam> this is a found block with transactions in it
2256 2011-07-06 23:41:12 <MrSam> some of the transactions have a fee
2257 2011-07-06 23:41:13 <jgarzik> SeaBlue: the sum of all transaction fees attached to the last 10 minutes worth of transactions
2258 2011-07-06 23:41:29 <jgarzik> SeaBlue: each transaction may, or may not, include a transaction fee sent to the miner (winner)
2259 2011-07-06 23:42:36 <SeaBlue> ah ok I think I get it...
2260 2011-07-06 23:43:15 <MrSam> SeaBlue: and to prevent the system from failing
2261 2011-07-06 23:43:18 sabalaba has joined
2262 2011-07-06 23:43:42 <MrSam> there is a difficulty involved that acts as a failsafe so it allways takes around 10 minutes
2263 2011-07-06 23:44:12 <SeaBlue> hmmm
2264 2011-07-06 23:44:15 <MrSam> current difficulty would take an average gpu around 2 months to find a solution
2265 2011-07-06 23:44:23 <SeaBlue> wow
2266 2011-07-06 23:44:27 <MrSam> so they came up with the idea of pooled mining
2267 2011-07-06 23:44:39 Beccara has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2268 2011-07-06 23:44:46 <MrSam> so all computing power is joined, in the quest of finding a solution
2269 2011-07-06 23:45:03 <MrSam> whenever it is found, the "money" is split against all users that helped searching
2270 2011-07-06 23:45:03 <SeaBlue> so having SLI cards won't help?
2271 2011-07-06 23:45:10 <SeaBlue> ah
2272 2011-07-06 23:45:28 <MrSam> if you join a very big pool you would get a block every 30 min or so
2273 2011-07-06 23:45:35 <MrSam> but your share would be equivalent
2274 2011-07-06 23:45:40 disqk is now known as disq
2275 2011-07-06 23:45:49 <MrSam> so you would only get like 0.00012314123
2276 2011-07-06 23:45:51 <pasky> ;;bc,calc 300000
2277 2011-07-06 23:45:52 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 300000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1563027.9961162 , is 36 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 53 minutes, and 0 seconds
2278 2011-07-06 23:46:07 <pasky> I think your estimate "average gpu around 2 months to find a solution" is a tiny bit optimistic
2279 2011-07-06 23:46:17 DukeOfURL has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2280 2011-07-06 23:46:18 <MrSam> pasky: #define average ;)
2281 2011-07-06 23:46:26 <MrSam> SeaBlue: you can check your hardware here
2282 2011-07-06 23:46:27 <MrSam> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
2283 2011-07-06 23:46:27 <pasky> (and I think "average gpu" is a lot less than 300Mps anyway)
2284 2011-07-06 23:46:35 <clarkbox> ;;bc,calc 1600000
2285 2011-07-06 23:46:36 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 1600000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1563027.9961162 , is 6 weeks, 6 days, 13 hours, 28 minutes, and 41 seconds
2286 2011-07-06 23:47:17 <MrSam> SeaBlue: find your hardware in the list
2287 2011-07-06 23:47:18 <MrSam> and use
2288 2011-07-06 23:47:18 <MrSam> http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php
2289 2011-07-06 23:47:23 <MrSam> or the ;;bc bot here
2290 2011-07-06 23:47:50 <MrSam> these are offcourse only estimates in case you would find a block
2291 2011-07-06 23:47:56 <SeaBlue> ok so one more question and then I'll stop noobing up the room
2292 2011-07-06 23:48:54 <SeaBlue> is there an exchange rate? Meaning if you could buy the coins directly how many would 1 dollar US buy?
2293 2011-07-06 23:49:04 <MrSam> SeaBlue: join #bitcoin-market
2294 2011-07-06 23:49:23 <MrSam> its 14.77 or so right now
2295 2011-07-06 23:49:26 <justmoon> ;;bc,mtgox
2296 2011-07-06 23:49:27 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":16.5,"low":12.575,"avg":14.721551028,"vol":112068,"last":14.71999,"buy":14.70046,"sell":14.71999}}
2297 2011-07-06 23:49:31 <jgarzik> SeaBlue: see http://bitcoinwatch.com/
2298 2011-07-06 23:49:37 <MrSam> or
2299 2011-07-06 23:49:37 <MrSam> http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
2300 2011-07-06 23:49:38 <jgarzik> SeaBlue: there are -many- exchange rates
2301 2011-07-06 23:49:50 <jgarzik> SeaBlue: because bitcoin is traded on any free market
2302 2011-07-06 23:50:05 <justmoon> confucius say: three people explaining something is worse than no people explaining it
2303 2011-07-06 23:50:09 <MrSam> SeaBlue: you must understand that since there is no control organism on the market
2304 2011-07-06 23:50:15 <MrSam> that it is very volatile
2305 2011-07-06 23:50:19 <SeaBlue> thanks guys, I'm gonna go read try to wrap my mind around this...
2306 2011-07-06 23:50:23 <MrSam> np
2307 2011-07-06 23:50:30 <MrSam> and dont forget ;) triplemining.com
2308 2011-07-06 23:50:31 <MrSam> :P
2309 2011-07-06 23:50:34 <SeaBlue> lol
2310 2011-07-06 23:50:37 SeaBlue has left ()
2311 2011-07-06 23:50:42 AStove has quit ()
2312 2011-07-06 23:50:47 <MrSam> allmost had my first costumer there
2313 2011-07-06 23:50:53 <justmoon> jgarzik, are there three unanswered inquiries on -press right now? or are people just not ccing the list
2314 2011-07-06 23:50:56 <gim> so, how much $ spent a day in mining to secure roughly 100M$ worth of bitcoins? can gribble do the math?
2315 2011-07-06 23:51:01 <MrSam> customer ?
2316 2011-07-06 23:51:02 <MrSam> hmm
2317 2011-07-06 23:51:36 <jgarzik> justmoon: dunno. I try to CC the list when I respond
2318 2011-07-06 23:51:49 <justmoon> hrm
2319 2011-07-06 23:52:32 glitch-mod has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2320 2011-07-06 23:53:07 <jgarzik> justmoon: I certainly delete a fair amount without responding
2321 2011-07-06 23:53:20 <jgarzik> justmoon: just too many smaller bloggers and podcasts who want time
2322 2011-07-06 23:53:45 <justmoon> well, I'll do risky business then, I like them
2323 2011-07-06 23:53:54 <Graet> gim i defy anyone to do the math. for starters pp payier boses etc0 to many for power depind on lots pof things.............like location, cheating
2324 2011-07-06 23:54:16 <Graet> hmm that didnt work
2325 2011-07-06 23:54:49 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
2326 2011-07-06 23:54:53 <Graet> 4gim i defy anyone to do the math. for starters many different ppl pay very different power costs
2327 2011-07-06 23:55:02 NickelBot has joined
2328 2011-07-06 23:55:05 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, how long between blocks on testnet?
2329 2011-07-06 23:55:18 torsthaldo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2330 2011-07-06 23:55:22 <MrSam> to long for me :/
2331 2011-07-06 23:55:23 SixEch0_ has joined
2332 2011-07-06 23:55:26 <MrSam> testnet-inabox
2333 2011-07-06 23:55:33 again has joined
2334 2011-07-06 23:56:01 <phantomcircuit> yeah this is ridiculous
2335 2011-07-06 23:56:06 <phantomcircuit> difficulty on testnet should be capped
2336 2011-07-06 23:56:14 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: http://blockexplorer.com/testnet
2337 2011-07-06 23:56:17 <SeriousWorm> phantomcircuit: on my 300mhash/sec 6870 it took around 1.5 hours for a 50 testcoins block
2338 2011-07-06 23:56:35 <phantomcircuit> facepalm
2339 2011-07-06 23:56:39 <phantomcircuit> that's ridiculous
2340 2011-07-06 23:56:41 Gonzago has joined
2341 2011-07-06 23:56:56 <SeriousWorm> yeah
2342 2011-07-06 23:57:03 <SeriousWorm> I'm thinking of opening a testnet exchange
2343 2011-07-06 23:57:05 <gim> Graet: we may just count the cost as an energy, joules or MWh
2344 2011-07-06 23:57:10 <SeriousWorm> (just kidding) :D
2345 2011-07-06 23:57:12 <SeriousWorm> (maybe)
2346 2011-07-06 23:57:13 <MrSam> SeriousWorm: :P
2347 2011-07-06 23:57:17 <SeriousWorm> :p
2348 2011-07-06 23:57:20 <MrSam> i have plenty of testcoins :P
2349 2011-07-06 23:57:26 <SeriousWorm> I have 50
2350 2011-07-06 23:57:30 <MrSam> lol
2351 2011-07-06 23:57:40 <phantomcircuit> fucking hell
2352 2011-07-06 23:57:48 <phantomcircuit> can you send me some testnet faucet isn't working
2353 2011-07-06 23:57:56 SixEch0 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2354 2011-07-06 23:58:03 <gim> so question about testnet. how to perform unit tests without automated testcoin creation?
2355 2011-07-06 23:58:06 <MrSam> faucet was giving 50 each last time
2356 2011-07-06 23:58:13 <phantomcircuit> mxtuv2aukdtGdLGQ4GB1ikhuQNHRtY8Cp2
2357 2011-07-06 23:58:22 <OppieT30> it isn't any more
2358 2011-07-06 23:58:22 <phantomcircuit> someone plz
2359 2011-07-06 23:58:32 <phantomcircuit> MrSam, it's now pretending to give 0.11
2360 2011-07-06 23:58:38 <phantomcircuit> and afaict it isn't actually doing it
2361 2011-07-06 23:58:43 <b4epoche_> can gribble do the calc to determine the average number of hashes needed to solve 'the problem' given the difficulty?
2362 2011-07-06 23:58:45 <gim> i've sent you half of my fortuen
2363 2011-07-06 23:58:49 <MrSam> howmuch real coins do i get for 50 testcoins ? :P
2364 2011-07-06 23:58:52 <gim> (my testfortune)
2365 2011-07-06 23:58:58 <MrSam> gim: you spoiled my deal
2366 2011-07-06 23:59:04 <BlueMatt> MrSam: 0.00000001
2367 2011-07-06 23:59:09 <MrSam> hmm
2368 2011-07-06 23:59:11 <MrSam> do you think
2369 2011-07-06 23:59:12 <b4epoche_> phantomcircuit: sent
2370 2011-07-06 23:59:12 <BlueMatt> probably less
2371 2011-07-06 23:59:21 <MrSam> there is an idea in a testnet pool ? :P
2372 2011-07-06 23:59:26 SixEch0_ has left ()
2373 2011-07-06 23:59:27 <BlueMatt> lolno
2374 2011-07-06 23:59:30 <MrSam> since the difficulty is so high :P
2375 2011-07-06 23:59:31 <phantomcircuit> loverly
2376 2011-07-06 23:59:39 <MrSam> i could change triplemining to testnet
2377 2011-07-06 23:59:43 <phantomcircuit> also the bug i found isn't in git head
2378 2011-07-06 23:59:45 <OppieT30> faucet sent me 0.001 coins.
2379 2011-07-06 23:59:49 <phantomcircuit> or maybe it's not in testnet
2380 2011-07-06 23:59:50 <phantomcircuit> sigh
2381 2011-07-06 23:59:59 <b4epoche_> is there a gribble command library somewhere?