1 2011-07-10 00:00:01 <tcatm> I'm going to doublespend
   2 2011-07-10 00:00:17 <jav__> tcatm: the same as the website, 208.76.245.137 .. but it doesn't accept incoming connections
   3 2011-07-10 00:01:14 wirehead has joined
   4 2011-07-10 00:01:29 <jav__> tcatm: cool, give it a try... I just tried it and failed, sort of, only one tx made it and was seen be 98% of the nodes... I'm going to try again with better timing
   5 2011-07-10 00:02:18 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
   6 2011-07-10 00:03:33 <tcatm> jav__: txs broadcasted
   7 2011-07-10 00:04:08 <jav__> tcatm: what are the two txs?
   8 2011-07-10 00:04:56 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
   9 2011-07-10 00:05:19 <tcatm> 09c0846e1048c51fc8680bd7fb132bf2a38c3ad29cc5fa37599a13f0d70161d6 and d5261eae87001387b6e40ab58dff4f4ace90eb8495411eb302881e0cb70ce809
  10 2011-07-10 00:06:08 <jav__> tcatm: hm.. the site only picked up the second one.. from 96 nodes (so far)
  11 2011-07-10 00:06:12 theorbtwo has joined
  12 2011-07-10 00:06:25 <tcatm> yep, that's the only one that got confirmations
  13 2011-07-10 00:07:28 <tcatm> I placed both send dialogs above each other so a double click would send both and made sure to connect to two different nodes.
  14 2011-07-10 00:09:21 <jav__> tcatm: that's kind of how I did it as well
  15 2011-07-10 00:09:30 noagendamarket has quit (Excess Flood)
  16 2011-07-10 00:09:34 <Happy0> ehh... can someone give me a link to that sourceforge testnet thingymajiggy?
  17 2011-07-10 00:09:56 <jav__> now I wrote a shell script instead: e9d69e545e1818308bd66a176d31e1ee90437a014d42931279d6263e18d4900c and cbaf603ff22fb069f5c1e0c8ff7d68e39ac1a0e104bb5552ddf9a1e7746c6ef2
  18 2011-07-10 00:10:19 <jav__> turned out much "nicer"... radar sees 76 vs 20
  19 2011-07-10 00:10:52 glassresistor has joined
  20 2011-07-10 00:10:57 noagendamarket has joined
  21 2011-07-10 00:11:33 <tcatm> jav__: it might be useful to make your site detect actual double spents
  22 2011-07-10 00:12:01 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  23 2011-07-10 00:12:36 <jav__> tcatm: hm, yeah maybe... much more complex though, since I would need the full transactions to see which ones are in conflict
  24 2011-07-10 00:13:04 <tcatm> just keep a list of inputs
  25 2011-07-10 00:13:14 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  26 2011-07-10 00:13:32 <jav__> tcatm: no, I mean from those 100 nodes... right now I only listen for "invs" and never request the full transaction
  27 2011-07-10 00:14:29 <jav__> on the other hand.. I only need to request a transaction once.. hadn't thought of that
  28 2011-07-10 00:14:51 <tcatm> yep
  29 2011-07-10 00:17:14 jlewis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  30 2011-07-10 00:18:01 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r8b2f96b / lib/rpc/getwork.js : Ported luke-jr's dedupe patch to BitcoinJS. - http://bit.ly/okh77T https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/8b2f96bb38c71ed1445f45b61d6eadaff7436b75
  31 2011-07-10 00:18:57 <luke-jr> o.O
  32 2011-07-10 00:19:00 <luke-jr> they copied the buy?
  33 2011-07-10 00:19:02 <luke-jr> bug*
  34 2011-07-10 00:19:03 jlewis has joined
  35 2011-07-10 00:19:21 <justmoon> luke-jr, did I miss something?
  36 2011-07-10 00:19:44 <luke-jr> justmoon: my dedupe patch was a bugfix for bitcoind
  37 2011-07-10 00:19:46 eoss has joined
  38 2011-07-10 00:19:58 <luke-jr> porting it to BitcoinJS means they copied the bug it fixed
  39 2011-07-10 00:20:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: they here would mean justmoon
  40 2011-07-10 00:20:23 <luke-jr> oh
  41 2011-07-10 00:20:25 <justmoon> luke-jr, yes, BitcoinJS uses the same rules for everything, which included when to iterate extraNonce
  42 2011-07-10 00:20:42 <luke-jr> justmoon: interesting
  43 2011-07-10 00:21:34 denisx has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  44 2011-07-10 00:22:11 <luke-jr> justmoon: so is it a literal 1:1 port? or just the rules were kept strictly the same?
  45 2011-07-10 00:22:13 OneFixt_ has joined
  46 2011-07-10 00:22:39 <justmoon> luke-jr, 1:1 with the exception that we're not interested in having a built-in wallet or GUI
  47 2011-07-10 00:22:59 <justmoon> BitcoinJS has a wallet and GUI, but they are separate pieces of software in separate repositories
  48 2011-07-10 00:23:15 <luke-jr> how do you make work, without a wallet?
  49 2011-07-10 00:23:21 cryptocnt has joined
  50 2011-07-10 00:23:35 <BlueMatt> ;;seen tcatm
  51 2011-07-10 00:23:35 <gribble> tcatm was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 8 minutes and 43 seconds ago: <tcatm> yep
  52 2011-07-10 00:23:38 <BlueMatt> ;;seen jgarzik
  53 2011-07-10 00:23:38 OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  54 2011-07-10 00:23:38 <gribble> jgarzik was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 hours, 45 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <jgarzik> knotwork: use an older version
  55 2011-07-10 00:23:43 <BlueMatt> ;;seen sipa
  56 2011-07-10 00:23:43 <gribble> sipa was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 hours, 26 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <sipa> for all accounts combined
  57 2011-07-10 00:23:49 OneFixt_ has quit (Changing host)
  58 2011-07-10 00:23:49 OneFixt_ has joined
  59 2011-07-10 00:23:52 OneFixt_ is now known as OneFixt
  60 2011-07-10 00:23:58 <justmoon> ummm *embarassed* - hardcoded pubkey right now - pretty soon, we'll integrate with webcoin's merchant api
  61 2011-07-10 00:24:07 <luke-jr> XD
  62 2011-07-10 00:24:29 <justmoon> BlueMatt: see, now I've got a new thing that I'll obsessively fix ;)
  63 2011-07-10 00:25:09 <luke-jr> justmoon: sounds pretty cool
  64 2011-07-10 00:25:14 <BlueMatt> justmoon: hey, whatever keeps you up at night coding ;)
  65 2011-07-10 00:25:16 <tcatm> justmoon: could bitcoinjs handle multiple bitcoin-like networks in a single process?
  66 2011-07-10 00:26:09 <BlueMatt> I want to get a decision on wallet crypto backward compatibility tonight/tomorrow if people dont mine...
  67 2011-07-10 00:26:14 <BlueMatt> tcatm: your opinion?
  68 2011-07-10 00:26:27 <BlueMatt> s/mine/mind/
  69 2011-07-10 00:26:28 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: good luck getting people to stop mining for your decision :P
  70 2011-07-10 00:26:49 <justmoon> tcatm: hmm, getwork uses some static variables and you can't use the default start script... other than that, it *should* work
  71 2011-07-10 00:27:12 <justmoon> tcatm, so unless you wanna mine on all of then, yeah I'd say it should work
  72 2011-07-10 00:27:22 <justmoon> them*
  73 2011-07-10 00:27:27 kish has joined
  74 2011-07-10 00:27:51 <tcatm> justmoon: great. I'll try to use it for the decentral pool protocol
  75 2011-07-10 00:28:03 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: care to pull request the dedupe stuff...seriously please just sign up for github under a false name so they cant make you pay...I mean come on
  76 2011-07-10 00:28:20 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I don't give my word unless I plan to keep it.
  77 2011-07-10 00:28:29 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  78 2011-07-10 00:28:38 <BlueMatt> oh god...ok can someone else please pull req luke's patch?
  79 2011-07-10 00:28:51 <tcatm> BlueMatt: what are the options for backward compatibility?
  80 2011-07-10 00:29:14 <justmoon> tcatm: don't hesitate to ask questions - it's pretty young software, but I'm dedicated to supporting it
  81 2011-07-10 00:29:37 moa7 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  82 2011-07-10 00:29:50 <BlueMatt> tcatm: either a. rename wallet to something like wallet-crypted.dat and let old clients just make their own unencrypted wallets, or b. dont and let old clients throw errors and just handle the "oh you opened this wallet on an old version" case gracefully on 0.4 (not too hard)
  83 2011-07-10 00:30:31 <BlueMatt> or c. do you have a better idea?
  84 2011-07-10 00:30:35 Incitatus has joined
  85 2011-07-10 00:30:47 kish_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  86 2011-07-10 00:31:00 <Incitatus> tcatm, you there?
  87 2011-07-10 00:31:09 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I'd personally do everything I could to break the older versions, so long as there's a "Downgrade Wallet" option in the newer one
  88 2011-07-10 00:31:23 <Incitatus> i'm wondering if there's anyway to tell how many BTCs have been sold on exchanges in their history
  89 2011-07-10 00:31:26 <Incitatus> tcatm, UP
  90 2011-07-10 00:31:29 <tcatm> BlueMatt: b sounds like a simple enough idea (along with a big warning when 0.4 is released to not open the wallet with < 0.4 ever again)
  91 2011-07-10 00:31:31 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: oddly enough, I would agree here
  92 2011-07-10 00:31:40 <tcatm> Incitatus: I'm here.
  93 2011-07-10 00:31:50 <BlueMatt> tcatm: ok, thanks...
  94 2011-07-10 00:31:54 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  95 2011-07-10 00:31:58 <Incitatus> because that number could tell us what the maximum amount miners could still have
  96 2011-07-10 00:32:05 * BlueMatt is slightly amazed he agrees with luke-jr on something...
  97 2011-07-10 00:32:14 <Incitatus> which might be a useful thing to know
  98 2011-07-10 00:32:18 <tcatm> Incitatus: like sum(volume)?
  99 2011-07-10 00:32:25 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: btw, any plans to pull coinbaser?
 100 2011-07-10 00:32:33 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: coinbaser?
 101 2011-07-10 00:32:33 <Incitatus> yea basically
 102 2011-07-10 00:32:36 <Incitatus> of all exchanges
 103 2011-07-10 00:32:38 <luke-jr> or txinfo?
 104 2011-07-10 00:32:43 <BlueMatt> txinfo?
 105 2011-07-10 00:32:44 <Incitatus> all history
 106 2011-07-10 00:32:51 <BlueMatt> links? more clear names?
 107 2011-07-10 00:33:01 <Incitatus> maybe there's an easy way on bitcoincharts but i couldn't find it
 108 2011-07-10 00:33:12 <tcatm> Incitatus: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=21KP5QGq
 109 2011-07-10 00:33:16 <luke-jr> -coinbaser 'some command' : execute 'some command' when creating a new block for getwork, and parse its stdout for how to distribute the rewards
 110 2011-07-10 00:33:33 <Incitatus> very cool tcatm, thanks
 111 2011-07-10 00:33:38 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git/shortlog/refs/heads/coinbaser
 112 2011-07-10 00:33:43 <justmoon> luke-jr, awesome that would solve my hardcoded pubkey problem!
 113 2011-07-10 00:33:58 <luke-jr> justmoon: lol, not a 1:1 port of it ;)
 114 2011-07-10 00:34:12 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: you realize noone ever sees anything you do because you dont post it?
 115 2011-07-10 00:34:26 <luke-jr> justmoon: it has strong failover techniques-- if coinbaser fails for any reason, or doesn't distribute the full amount, it does the best thing IMO
 116 2011-07-10 00:34:36 <justmoon> BlueMatt, did you complain a few days ago that luke is posting everything to the bot xD
 117 2011-07-10 00:34:48 <justmoon> didnt*
 118 2011-07-10 00:34:58 <BlueMatt> justmoon: if he posts to the bot, noone sees it because it looks like spam ;)
 119 2011-07-10 00:35:06 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: txinfo adds 'pooledtx', 'currentblocktx', and 'currentblocksize' to getinfo
 120 2011-07-10 00:35:11 <BlueMatt> (and alot of it is luke-specific stuff, which is my real complaint there)
 121 2011-07-10 00:35:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: basically none of it is luke-specific
 122 2011-07-10 00:35:33 <justmoon> luke-jr, sending the money to me doesn't sound so bad as a failover... lol
 123 2011-07-10 00:35:36 <justmoon> j/k
 124 2011-07-10 00:35:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: those sound like very luke-specific patches, or I suppose eligius' payout method-specific
 125 2011-07-10 00:35:45 <tcatm> justmoon: is it possible to re-use the p2p code in bitcoinjs with a slightly different protocol?
 126 2011-07-10 00:36:06 <justmoon> tcatm, sure, it's javascript, you can monkey patch the shit out of it, if you want
 127 2011-07-10 00:36:12 <justmoon> or just fork it
 128 2011-07-10 00:36:18 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: force_send (in theory) adds a 2nd option to settxfee, whether to send coins with under-bitcoind-rules-minimum anyway
 129 2011-07-10 00:37:02 <luke-jr> hub_mode is evil connect-to-every-peer that jgarzik hates :p
 130 2011-07-10 00:37:25 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: that one has been submitted in various forms many times, the problem there is that noobs will use it like crazy to generate txes that will neither spend, relay, nor allow reversing
 131 2011-07-10 00:37:36 <luke-jr> minfee_modes changes the GetMinFee API to support different fees for relay/send/accept
 132 2011-07-10 00:37:41 <BlueMatt> so even advanced users who think they are smart will get problems with it
 133 2011-07-10 00:37:57 <BlueMatt> that said, fees need massive changes to how ddos is protected, etc, etc
 134 2011-07-10 00:38:06 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: and hub-mode is really, really bad for the network
 135 2011-07-10 00:38:10 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: really bad
 136 2011-07-10 00:38:18 gjs278 has joined
 137 2011-07-10 00:38:27 <luke-jr> threaded_rpc and rpc_keepalive are self-explanatory
 138 2011-07-10 00:38:43 <luke-jr> signal_blk_notify sends SIGUSR1 to -notifyblkpidfile <filename>
 139 2011-07-10 00:39:00 <BlueMatt> something like those will be pulled eventually, but please tell people that you did that, so it doesnt get redone
 140 2011-07-10 00:39:23 <luke-jr> just did
 141 2011-07-10 00:39:24 <luke-jr> :P
 142 2011-07-10 00:39:27 <justmoon> tcatm, make sure you read this page: https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/wiki - you can use bitcoinjs as a replacement for bitcoind, or for more advanced tasks you can use it as a library, extend stuff, change stuff etc.
 143 2011-07-10 00:39:31 <sipa> hehe
 144 2011-07-10 00:39:42 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: I forget shit like that really, really quick...
 145 2011-07-10 00:39:58 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 146 2011-07-10 00:40:18 gjs278 has joined
 147 2011-07-10 00:40:59 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: re: signal_blk_notify yea that one is an interesting one...I agree its very useful, but it does seem like feature creep, and that is something I want to fight really hard against until the codebase is really clean, at which point that kind of thing should be pulled
 148 2011-07-10 00:41:08 <BlueMatt> that said, its always a question of priority
 149 2011-07-10 00:41:19 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: yeah, but it's also like 5 lines total
 150 2011-07-10 00:41:24 <BlueMatt> if enough people really want that, well yea it will be pulled
 151 2011-07-10 00:41:29 <luke-jr> rather trivial and very useful
 152 2011-07-10 00:41:31 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: weve seen way less than that cause problems
 153 2011-07-10 00:41:34 wolfspraul has joined
 154 2011-07-10 00:42:01 <jgarzik> no one would surrender to the Dread Pirate Westley
 155 2011-07-10 00:42:12 <sipa> ...?
 156 2011-07-10 00:42:25 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: whats your opinion on wallet encryption backward compatibility, and wtf????
 157 2011-07-10 00:43:14 * jgarzik enjoys being random
 158 2011-07-10 00:43:20 cryptocnt has joined
 159 2011-07-10 00:43:23 <jgarzik> just watching The Princess Bride
 160 2011-07-10 00:43:25 <BlueMatt> ...ok?
 161 2011-07-10 00:44:11 jav__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 162 2011-07-10 00:45:03 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 163 2011-07-10 00:45:44 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 164 2011-07-10 00:46:03 <^1bitc0inplz> jgarzik: inconceivable!
 165 2011-07-10 00:46:07 gjs278 has joined
 166 2011-07-10 00:46:15 <jgarzik> :)
 167 2011-07-10 00:46:39 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 168 2011-07-10 00:46:51 * sipa -> dream land
 169 2011-07-10 00:46:55 gjs278 has joined
 170 2011-07-10 00:47:09 <BlueMatt> sipa: have fun, hopefully wallet crypto merge tomorrow...
 171 2011-07-10 00:47:15 <BlueMatt> (or Im targeting anyway)
 172 2011-07-10 00:47:21 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: good suggestions in the crypto forum thread.  no spectacular new insights :)
 173 2011-07-10 00:47:53 <jgarzik> 98 connections 187m RSS
 174 2011-07-10 00:47:54 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: So, tomorrow I will learn how to compile Bitcoin!
 175 2011-07-10 00:48:10 <BlueMatt> cuddlefish: there are always nightly builds at bitcoin.bluematt.me ;)
 176 2011-07-10 00:48:18 <cuddlefish> oh, right, gitian
 177 2011-07-10 00:48:25 <jgarzik> cuddlefish: cd src ; g++ -o bitcoin *.cpp
 178 2011-07-10 00:48:26 <jgarzik> :)
 179 2011-07-10 00:48:27 <BlueMatt> no, those arent gitian...
 180 2011-07-10 00:48:46 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: More pulling in deps
 181 2011-07-10 00:49:12 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: theres nothing on the forum thread about backward compat...
 182 2011-07-10 00:49:46 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: sure there is, e.g. suggestion to zero wallet.dat and call new one ewallet.dat
 183 2011-07-10 00:49:56 <BlueMatt> that was on forum?
 184 2011-07-10 00:50:11 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: the main thing is finding a good behavior for old clients with new crypted wallet
 185 2011-07-10 00:50:16 <BlueMatt> no, you must be thinking of mailing list
 186 2011-07-10 00:50:27 <BlueMatt> well thats why Im asking, what would you prefer...
 187 2011-07-10 00:50:33 <jgarzik> somewhere in electronic dataspace anyway
 188 2011-07-10 00:51:00 <luke-jr> jgarzik: would you prefer I not publish super-hub-mode branch?
 189 2011-07-10 00:51:25 denisx has joined
 190 2011-07-10 00:51:44 <jgarzik> luke-jr: you can publish whatever you wish.  I think hub mode as designed is a mistake not to be encouraged.
 191 2011-07-10 00:52:06 <luke-jr> B⃦0.01
 192 2011-07-10 00:52:08 <BlueMatt> either a. have old clients just open up to a freshwalet or maybe try to chmod 000 wallet.dat so old clients on some oses will fail with unable to open file stuff, or b. dont do that and let old nodes act a bit wonky (0.3.23+ will not open with errors, and 0.3.22- will show txes but not be able to spend/fill keypool/have a balance)
 193 2011-07-10 00:52:59 <BlueMatt> my concern: errors/wonkyness, or show a blank page to the user making them think their wallet is gone
 194 2011-07-10 00:53:57 markio has joined
 195 2011-07-10 00:54:19 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 196 2011-07-10 00:55:38 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: your opinion? its really a tradeoff and question of personal choice, so I want to get everyone's opinion
 197 2011-07-10 00:55:46 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: surely there's some way to craft a wallet.dat that throws an error?
 198 2011-07-10 00:56:26 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: LoadWallet is surprisingly immune to return false;
 199 2011-07-10 00:56:26 <jgarzik> yeah, you can corrupt it
 200 2011-07-10 00:56:55 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: gonna think on it a bit.  weekend means time for beer, not working :)
 201 2011-07-10 00:57:03 <luke-jr> XD
 202 2011-07-10 00:57:04 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: As far as network architecture, how about something like this: Supernodes/subnodes. Subnodes connect to 8 or so supernodes, and send transactions only to them. Supernodes also connect to 8ish other supernodes, and broadcast recieved transactions to other supernodes first, and then to subnodes. To be a supernode you have to explicitly say so, perhaps with either a new packet or a version number; you also need to have your ports o
 203 2011-07-10 00:57:17 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: lol, ok then Ill anxiously await your response ;)
 204 2011-07-10 00:57:46 <BlueMatt> cuddlefish: that is the plan afaik, the devil is in the details ;)
 205 2011-07-10 00:58:12 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: that's pretty much the details
 206 2011-07-10 00:58:20 <BlueMatt> not really
 207 2011-07-10 00:58:37 <BlueMatt> most specifically is how to fight sybil due to relay of nodes list
 208 2011-07-10 00:58:42 <BlueMatt> and how to indicate supernode status
 209 2011-07-10 00:59:03 <BlueMatt> we have flags, but its |= ed all the time, so you cant unset
 210 2011-07-10 00:59:14 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: What happens if bitcoin recieves a bad packet?
 211 2011-07-10 00:59:28 <BlueMatt> what does that have to do with anything?
 212 2011-07-10 00:59:33 <BlueMatt> Im not talking about the connection
 213 2011-07-10 00:59:35 <BlueMatt> thats not hard
 214 2011-07-10 00:59:39 <BlueMatt> set fClient
 215 2011-07-10 00:59:42 <cuddlefish> Oh, I see
 216 2011-07-10 00:59:56 <BlueMatt> its a question of passing the list around and sybil protection...
 217 2011-07-10 01:00:05 <BlueMatt> and many other similar details
 218 2011-07-10 01:00:10 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: require POW for supernode status?
 219 2011-07-10 01:00:29 <BlueMatt> that in no way protects you from other nodes changing the value...
 220 2011-07-10 01:00:34 <BlueMatt> and seems like overdoing it
 221 2011-07-10 01:00:42 <cuddlefish> Oh, list of supernodes?
 222 2011-07-10 01:00:48 <BlueMatt> in the addr response
 223 2011-07-10 01:01:02 <lfm> communications capability does not always imply processing power
 224 2011-07-10 01:01:51 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: If I change the list of supernodes I feed a client, isn't that just as bad as a wonky normal addr packet?
 225 2011-07-10 01:03:24 <BlueMatt> cuddlefish: no, i think fClient is also |= ed like flags, so if you set the supernode flag on all subnodes you know of, now all clients think every node is a supernode
 226 2011-07-10 01:04:39 <lfm> so 0 = super and 1 = sub
 227 2011-07-10 01:05:04 <BlueMatt> lfm: and do you |= them when you get an addr packet, and then how do you handle downgrade?
 228 2011-07-10 01:05:16 <BlueMatt> lfm: the problem is if you change that too, you get backward compat problems
 229 2011-07-10 01:05:25 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: can't you send 2 addr packets?
 230 2011-07-10 01:05:25 <BlueMatt> as fClient is a standard we can rely on
 231 2011-07-10 01:05:34 <BlueMatt> cuddlefish: that would break backward compat
 232 2011-07-10 01:05:55 <BlueMatt> and how does that solve it?
 233 2011-07-10 01:05:59 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: That's why we'd bump the version number
 234 2011-07-10 01:06:06 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: 1 for super, 1 for sub
 235 2011-07-10 01:06:26 <BlueMatt> no, you have to use fClient or something to make sure old nodes only connect to supernodes
 236 2011-07-10 01:07:53 <cuddlefish> no, you wouldn't. subnodes could send along a list of supernodes and promptly drop the connection
 237 2011-07-10 01:07:54 <lfm> ya the sub is the new type. flag it as do not connect somehow
 238 2011-07-10 01:08:29 <BlueMatt> cuddlefish: that is really ugly, fClient is set up for this exact purpose
 239 2011-07-10 01:08:48 <BlueMatt> fClient is for this reason, but how to use it/pass it on new nodes/and does that solve the issue here?
 240 2011-07-10 01:09:56 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: Where's this defined?
 241 2011-07-10 01:10:00 <BlueMatt> I have nfc, Im just asking questions in case you didnt notice ;)
 242 2011-07-10 01:10:06 <BlueMatt> cuddlefish: net.* somewhere Id assume
 243 2011-07-10 01:10:08 Leo_II has joined
 244 2011-07-10 01:10:25 <cuddlefish> BlueMatt: in the source
 245 2011-07-10 01:10:32 <BlueMatt> net.* Id assume
 246 2011-07-10 01:10:35 <BlueMatt> net.cpp or net.h
 247 2011-07-10 01:11:01 <cuddlefish> Oh, thought you were talking about a java package <<
 248 2011-07-10 01:11:23 <BlueMatt> lulwut?
 249 2011-07-10 01:11:34 Leo_II1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 250 2011-07-10 01:11:48 <cuddlefish> for bitcoinJ or something
 251 2011-07-10 01:13:06 <cuddlefish> Okay, so what do I do differently if one of my peers has fClient on
 252 2011-07-10 01:13:23 <BlueMatt> are you actually writing this?
 253 2011-07-10 01:13:46 <cuddlefish> No, hypothetically
 254 2011-07-10 01:13:48 <BlueMatt> I think gavin is already (currently) working on the blockheaders branch and wants to update that a ton
 255 2011-07-10 01:13:58 <BlueMatt> which should fix 99% of the problems here anyway
 256 2011-07-10 01:15:38 Guest40990 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 257 2011-07-10 01:15:55 <lfm> near as I can see fClient is never on
 258 2011-07-10 01:16:26 <BlueMatt> yes that is currently true
 259 2011-07-10 01:16:35 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 260 2011-07-10 01:16:37 <BlueMatt> but its there for this exact reason in the future
 261 2011-07-10 01:16:57 <BlueMatt> its handled in such a way that clients which dont store the chain should set it
 262 2011-07-10 01:18:40 <lfm> one thing to have the chain of block headers another to have all the spent TXN
 263 2011-07-10 01:19:15 <BlueMatt> true...satoshi left the exact fClient definition to us I believe
 264 2011-07-10 01:19:55 <BlueMatt> though one would need to go back and read all the checks on fClient to make sure
 265 2011-07-10 01:20:18 <lfm> mosty assert(!fClient);
 266 2011-07-10 01:20:45 <BlueMatt> no, Im talking about other nodes, not this node
 267 2011-07-10 01:20:55 <BlueMatt> from the clients pov
 268 2011-07-10 01:22:47 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 269 2011-07-10 01:22:49 TheZimm has joined
 270 2011-07-10 01:23:24 <BlueMatt> anyway, Im off to bed
 271 2011-07-10 01:24:09 The_SLain_MAn has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 272 2011-07-10 01:24:23 <lfm> k bye
 273 2011-07-10 01:25:03 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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 275 2011-07-10 01:28:32 <roconnor> has the blockchain really increased in size by 20% in the last 2 days?
 276 2011-07-10 01:28:53 * roconnor is looking at http://bitcoin.bluematt.me/bitcoin-nightly/blockchain-nightly/
 277 2011-07-10 01:29:44 <lfm> roconnor: no
 278 2011-07-10 01:31:48 Teslah has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 279 2011-07-10 01:33:24 <lfm> roconnor: that is not the whole chain. it is a few weeks old and stopped artificially so you still need to download a few weeks of the chain after you start running
 280 2011-07-10 01:33:56 <roconnor> bitcoin-blockchain-20110709.tar.bz2
 281 2011-07-10 01:34:01 <roconnor> doesn't sound a few weeks old
 282 2011-07-10 01:34:32 <lfm> look at the last block header inside the file
 283 2011-07-10 01:35:15 <lfm> also it changed compression type there
 284 2011-07-10 01:35:59 <justmoon> roconnor: there was a problem with bluematt's node that generates the nightlies, it's fixed now, hence the jump in size
 285 2011-07-10 01:36:10 <roconnor> justmoon: ah
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 299 2011-07-10 02:10:12 <^1bitc0inplz> justmoon: did I read right, did you guys incorporate the extraNonce patch into the Node Bitcoin project?
 300 2011-07-10 02:11:04 <cuddlefish> luke-jr: 19:08 <@ljrbot> Txn 7bee253b1c2a6216c92a8a471210cca15c6b8724ed35c87e08dd59b30ffc572d: 1JyvSzqb5z2jJfjYSWJ14XHETJCJ4iTGyt  7.23 TBC, 1LZJg7RZS4cesFvfYGxa82UkV85JqVLQ3j 0.0104974 BTC
 301 2011-07-10 02:11:09 <cuddlefish> THIS IS WHY we don't use tonal
 302 2011-07-10 02:11:28 <luke-jr> cuddlefish: hmm?
 303 2011-07-10 02:12:50 <jackmcbarn> no block in over a half hour? really?
 304 2011-07-10 02:12:56 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 305 2011-07-10 02:13:09 <justmoon> ^1bitc0inplz, yes, we did
 306 2011-07-10 02:13:21 <^1bitc0inplz> that is sweet!
 307 2011-07-10 02:13:42 <^1bitc0inplz> I was looking over your code the other day, very cleanly written!
 308 2011-07-10 02:13:49 <justmoon> thanks :)
 309 2011-07-10 02:14:02 <justmoon> I've got some more fixes to do regarding block chain download, then i'll do a screencast, how to install it
 310 2011-07-10 02:15:07 <^1bitc0inplz> I see your using mongoDB, how hard would it be to stub some of that out to give someone a choice of their data store? I'm kinda partial to Redia ATM :-D
 311 2011-07-10 02:16:14 <justmoon> ^1bitc0inplz, you mean Redis?
 312 2011-07-10 02:16:26 <^1bitc0inplz> sorry, sleeping kid in my lap
 313 2011-07-10 02:16:28 <^1bitc0inplz> yes, Redis
 314 2011-07-10 02:17:06 <justmoon> ^1bitc0inplz, we are planning to switch to database agnostic models, but that would be a major change and not at all our priority right now
 315 2011-07-10 02:17:42 <roconnor> Tonal Bitcoin ?!
 316 2011-07-10 02:17:50 <^1bitc0inplz> justmoon: gotcha, I was fearing it would be difficult
 317 2011-07-10 02:17:54 <roconnor> ``. This is an alternative to decimal and the metric system, which improves usability drastically by allowing for infinite binary division.
 318 2011-07-10 02:18:17 <roconnor> Um ... I hate to break it to these tonal people, but the decimal system already allows for infinite binary division.
 319 2011-07-10 02:18:28 <roconnor> as it happens 2 is a factor of 10
 320 2011-07-10 02:18:29 [7] has quit (Disconnected by services)
 321 2011-07-10 02:18:36 <justmoon> roconnor, there is only one tonal person, luke, so take it up with him
 322 2011-07-10 02:18:39 TheSeven has joined
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 329 2011-07-10 02:23:51 Clipse has joined
 330 2011-07-10 02:23:59 <JackStorm> could always just force .001BTC to be displayed as 1E-3 and improve the US education system in the process :)
 331 2011-07-10 02:24:27 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 332 2011-07-10 02:28:21 ^1bitc0inplz has quit (Quit: ^1bitc0inplz)
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 337 2011-07-10 02:40:45 <luke-jr> roconnor: read the book
 338 2011-07-10 02:43:08 <lfm> roconnor: I read the tonal book and its not worth your time unless you really like folding rulers
 339 2011-07-10 02:43:40 <roconnor> is folding a verb or an adjective?
 340 2011-07-10 02:43:47 <luke-jr> lfm: no u
 341 2011-07-10 02:43:48 <lfm> adj
 342 2011-07-10 02:44:14 <luke-jr> lfm: at least you understand what is meant by infinite binary division ;p
 343 2011-07-10 02:44:24 marvin_ has joined
 344 2011-07-10 02:44:29 pyro__ has joined
 345 2011-07-10 02:44:34 <lfm> I understand what you both mean
 346 2011-07-10 02:44:40 <marvin_> ;;bc,stats
 347 2011-07-10 02:44:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135552 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 1535 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1608756.31443102
 348 2011-07-10 02:44:56 marvin_ has quit (Client Quit)
 349 2011-07-10 02:45:23 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 350 2011-07-10 02:45:33 <lfm> roconnor: it was written before the invention of tape measures so this guy though folding rulers were very important to get right
 351 2011-07-10 02:45:44 <lfm> thought
 352 2011-07-10 02:45:49 <roconnor> oh
 353 2011-07-10 02:45:56 <roconnor> that makes sense
 354 2011-07-10 02:46:17 pyro_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 355 2011-07-10 02:46:48 unclemantis has joined
 356 2011-07-10 02:46:55 <lfm> also he didnt understand logarithms very well imho
 357 2011-07-10 02:47:02 <luke-jr> lfm: quit trolling
 358 2011-07-10 02:47:12 <luke-jr> tape measures don't obsolete rulers
 359 2011-07-10 02:47:17 <luke-jr> they complement them
 360 2011-07-10 02:47:26 <luke-jr> and that's not even the main point
 361 2011-07-10 02:47:40 <roconnor> O_o
 362 2011-07-10 02:47:55 <lfm> ya, thats why you find folding rulers in every carpeter's tool box today, wait, no you don't
 363 2011-07-10 02:48:17 <lfm> carpenter's
 364 2011-07-10 02:48:34 wolfspraul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 365 2011-07-10 02:49:11 <luke-jr> are there still carpenters today?
 366 2011-07-10 02:49:16 <[Tycho]> "[06:08] <cuddlefish> THIS IS WHY we don't use tonal" - why exactly in this case ?
 367 2011-07-10 02:49:18 <gmaxwell> i have a long folding ruler in my toolbox. ::shrugs:: can't use a tape measure as a long straight-edge.
 368 2011-07-10 02:49:18 <lfm> carpeter's too I spoze
 369 2011-07-10 02:49:41 <lfm> gmaxwell: well you'r just weird
 370 2011-07-10 02:49:51 <roconnor> gmaxwell: I have a laser
 371 2011-07-10 02:49:55 liltoe has joined
 372 2011-07-10 02:50:04 kgo has left ("Leaving")
 373 2011-07-10 02:50:05 <JackStorm> luke-jr: yes there are, and even fewer wood workers, let alone masters
 374 2011-07-10 02:50:22 <luke-jr> [Tycho]: because he's too stupid to snoop in other peoples' trades when they don't use units he knows? :p
 375 2011-07-10 02:52:26 <lfm> if cubits were good enuf for Noah they should be good enuf for anyone
 376 2011-07-10 02:54:40 <cuddlefish> [Tycho]: Because the bot output binary instead of hex
 377 2011-07-10 02:54:48 <luke-jr> …
 378 2011-07-10 02:55:02 <luke-jr> it output tonal for a tonal transaction, just as it should
 379 2011-07-10 02:55:07 <luke-jr> brb
 380 2011-07-10 02:55:18 <cuddlefish> can we stick to ascii?
 381 2011-07-10 02:55:52 <lfm> cuddlefish: tonal requires the use of characters not found in ascii
 382 2011-07-10 02:56:05 <roconnor> cuddlefish: I'm using Ƀ  :/
 383 2011-07-10 02:56:09 <cuddlefish> lfm: << well, that's too bad, it looked promising.
 384 2011-07-10 02:56:24 ThomasV has joined
 385 2011-07-10 02:56:24 <roconnor> (not for tonal though)
 386 2011-07-10 02:57:40 <lfm> in fact I suspect tonal characters would be hard to find in any or the known char sets you could find.
 387 2011-07-10 02:58:29 <lfm> unless you get a copy from luke-jr
 388 2011-07-10 02:59:02 noagendamarket has joined
 389 2011-07-10 02:59:28 <roconnor> is U+E9D9 private use area?
 390 2011-07-10 03:00:08 <lfm> unicode?
 391 2011-07-10 03:00:21 wardearia has joined
 392 2011-07-10 03:00:32 <roconnor> those are the unicode characters on https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tonal_Bitcoin
 393 2011-07-10 03:00:52 <luke-jr> roconnor: high-bit tonal digits are U+E9Dx
 394 2011-07-10 03:00:58 conjre is now known as afk_conjre
 395 2011-07-10 03:01:03 wolfspraul has joined
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 397 2011-07-10 03:02:59 <roconnor> ya, U+E000 to U+F8FF is a private use area
 398 2011-07-10 03:03:37 <luke-jr> roconnor: from the perspective of Unicode; they encourage smaller communities to setup standards within PUA
 399 2011-07-10 03:04:00 <lfm> they dont seem to be part of any standard unless I am missing something
 400 2011-07-10 03:04:04 eao has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 401 2011-07-10 03:04:48 <lfm> Contained in the Private Use Area Unicode block.
 402 2011-07-10 03:06:24 mrb_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 403 2011-07-10 03:06:43 mrb_ has joined
 404 2011-07-10 03:07:09 <cuddlefish> Hmmmm.
 405 2011-07-10 03:07:17 <cuddlefish> sent 7 BTC from instawallet
 406 2011-07-10 03:07:25 <cuddlefish> an hour ago
 407 2011-07-10 03:07:35 <cuddlefish> no confirms... not in bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin...
 408 2011-07-10 03:08:09 <cuddlefish> and yet my balance was decremented
 409 2011-07-10 03:09:16 folklore has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 410 2011-07-10 03:09:19 <lfm> ya the sender loses the amount right away when a txn is sent
 411 2011-07-10 03:09:33 <cuddlefish> But you'd think they'd propagate the transaction....
 412 2011-07-10 03:09:46 <lfm> No fee?
 413 2011-07-10 03:09:55 folklore has joined
 414 2011-07-10 03:09:58 <freewil> yeah instawallet has no fees
 415 2011-07-10 03:10:03 <freewil> give it another hour or so
 416 2011-07-10 03:10:07 Teslah has joined
 417 2011-07-10 03:10:10 <gmaxwell> Might only meet the .22/.23 fee rules.
 418 2011-07-10 03:10:14 <cuddlefish> lfm: fee wouldn't matter, though
 419 2011-07-10 03:10:24 <luke-jr> it could
 420 2011-07-10 03:10:28 <cuddlefish> since it's not even on the network yet
 421 2011-07-10 03:10:38 <gmaxwell> Sure it would. bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin only shows stuff its heard about.
 422 2011-07-10 03:10:38 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 423 2011-07-10 03:10:42 <luke-jr> cuddlefish: the network won't even consider it if the fees aren't met
 424 2011-07-10 03:10:49 <freewil> FAQ: A: Please be patient. Instawallet currently includes no fees in transactions (this feature is planned however) and as such they can sometimes take a very long time to confirm. Please wait at least 24 hours before contacting me. You can check Bitcoin Charts for currently unconfirmed transactions.
 425 2011-07-10 03:10:53 <lfm> if a node judges the fee is too small it might not hand off the txn to other nodes
 426 2011-07-10 03:10:58 <cuddlefish> Ah, right, propagation rules
 427 2011-07-10 03:11:03 <cuddlefish> ffffs
 428 2011-07-10 03:11:18 <luke-jr> cuddlefish: next time connect to the Free Relay Network :P
 429 2011-07-10 03:11:29 <cuddlefish> luke-jr: i'll tell instawallet to
 430 2011-07-10 03:11:46 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: worthless currently in any case— addnode makes no effort to keep the connection up.
 431 2011-07-10 03:12:27 <cuddlefish> It's weird though
 432 2011-07-10 03:12:29 <gmaxwell> Also, bitcoincharts imposes the same anti-spam rules as everyone else, a txn which isn't getting propagated won't show up there even if you happen to be connected to it.
 433 2011-07-10 03:12:45 <cuddlefish> a 1 BTC transaction an hour earlier worked
 434 2011-07-10 03:12:45 <lfm> gmaxwell: It could be better at getting the txn to a node that will mine with it
 435 2011-07-10 03:12:47 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I was told it did
 436 2011-07-10 03:12:55 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: #bitcoin-watch is on free-relay
 437 2011-07-10 03:12:57 <cuddlefish> but this 7 BTC transaction didn't.
 438 2011-07-10 03:13:10 <cuddlefish> ooooh, I know why, maybe it sends from different addresses
 439 2011-07-10 03:13:12 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: go look at the code, it clearly only does a one shot connection to addnodes nodes.
 440 2011-07-10 03:13:33 <luke-jr> :/
 441 2011-07-10 03:13:51 <cuddlefish> luke-jr: #bitcoin-watch hasn't shown my TX either ;_;
 442 2011-07-10 03:13:54 <cuddlefish> the network hates me
 443 2011-07-10 03:14:08 <luke-jr> cuddlefish: it has to get to the FRN first :P
 444 2011-07-10 03:14:12 <gmaxwell> It's a simple change to change that... I guess I should submit a pull request for just that.
 445 2011-07-10 03:14:27 <cuddlefish> luke-jr: guess my coins, like fine wine, must mature
 446 2011-07-10 03:14:28 folklore has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 447 2011-07-10 03:14:36 <cuddlefish> hopefully it won't take several decades.
 448 2011-07-10 03:14:40 folklore has joined
 449 2011-07-10 03:14:53 <gmaxwell> cuddlefish: still, I don't know why instawallet would be hitting low priority... it should have a standing balance.
 450 2011-07-10 03:15:25 <lfm> cuddlefish: ya, there is "newness" considered by some nodes to invoke fees, including spending "change" from another recent txn
 451 2011-07-10 03:15:50 <gmaxwell> Yes, though bitcoin considers that in picking which inputs to spend.
 452 2011-07-10 03:16:06 <gmaxwell> er, well, it intends to at least, I have my doubts. :)
 453 2011-07-10 03:16:46 Lachesis has joined
 454 2011-07-10 03:16:51 <lfm> ya, it so out of the user's control that it looks like magic
 455 2011-07-10 03:17:30 <gmaxwell> might be useful if listtransactions told you the priority of non-confirmed txn.
 456 2011-07-10 03:17:41 <lfm> wave the lucky coin wand over your computer before sending
 457 2011-07-10 03:17:59 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 458 2011-07-10 03:18:04 <cuddlefish> ./bitcoind getpriority send 1foo 1.3
 459 2011-07-10 03:18:38 <gmaxwell> Yea, thats useless— because if you recieve something or spend something the decision may be entirely different.
 460 2011-07-10 03:18:43 <lfm> cuddlefish: the good news, as such, is that the newness will wear off in a couple days and let the txn go thru
 461 2011-07-10 03:18:56 <cuddlefish> lfm: Hooray!... not.
 462 2011-07-10 03:19:03 <gmaxwell> If its newness ant not bitcoind being down.
 463 2011-07-10 03:19:25 <gmaxwell> Or some attack filling all its connections with useless nodes.
 464 2011-07-10 03:20:29 <lfm> cuddlefish: would you care to reveal the address you sent to so we can watch ofr it?
 465 2011-07-10 03:20:35 <cuddlefish> lfm: one sec
 466 2011-07-10 03:21:58 <cuddlefish> Oh, you're kidding me. managed to trigger a bug in the Bitcoin android app that dropped my wallet. Never mind, it's not relevant anymore.
 467 2011-07-10 03:22:04 <cuddlefish> i'll be over here, crying.
 468 2011-07-10 03:22:10 <luke-jr> o.o
 469 2011-07-10 03:22:38 <gmaxwell> Man— you sent coin to a wallet that wasn't backed up?
 470 2011-07-10 03:22:55 <cuddlefish> gmaxwell: It was an Android app
 471 2011-07-10 03:23:32 upb has joined
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 474 2011-07-10 03:32:06 <Lachesis> is there a good reason that there's no RPC command to calculate the fee a spend would incur?
 475 2011-07-10 03:32:24 <Lachesis> or is it just that no one has the time for that?
 476 2011-07-10 03:34:00 shLONG has joined
 477 2011-07-10 03:34:16 <luke-jr> Lachesis: probably partly because it could change at any time
 478 2011-07-10 03:34:25 <Lachesis> how so?
 479 2011-07-10 03:34:46 <luke-jr> lots of ways
 480 2011-07-10 03:34:57 shLONG has quit (Client Quit)
 481 2011-07-10 03:35:16 <Lachesis> i mean, that's why i don't want to code it in my external program
 482 2011-07-10 03:35:28 <Lachesis> but shouldn't there just be a "calculate fee for transaction" function in the C++?
 483 2011-07-10 03:36:27 <luke-jr> just creating the transaction itself
 484 2011-07-10 03:38:01 <Lachesis> so can I call CWallet::CreateTransaction() and get the fee from that?
 485 2011-07-10 03:38:09 <Lachesis> or will that actually _place_ the transaction?
 486 2011-07-10 03:38:15 shLONG has joined
 487 2011-07-10 03:39:00 <luke-jr> I don't think it will place it
 488 2011-07-10 03:39:05 <luke-jr> you still need to do more for that
 489 2011-07-10 03:39:11 <Lachesis> ok
 490 2011-07-10 03:39:21 <Lachesis> thinking more, i realized that in my particular application, fees are unlikely
 491 2011-07-10 03:39:22 <Lachesis> but
 492 2011-07-10 03:39:25 <luke-jr> fyi, updated/fixed trades in #bitcoin-watch
 493 2011-07-10 03:39:37 <luke-jr> Lachesis: personally, I hacked my bitcoind to never send fees
 494 2011-07-10 03:39:45 <luke-jr> it either errors out, or forces without a fee
 495 2011-07-10 03:40:04 <luke-jr> which is why I have a 1 Satoshi txn tied up that will probably never get confirmed :|
 496 2011-07-10 03:40:08 f33x has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 497 2011-07-10 03:40:15 <Lachesis> lol
 498 2011-07-10 03:40:27 <Lachesis> can't you make Eligius accept it?
 499 2011-07-10 03:41:51 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 500 2011-07-10 03:43:01 <luke-jr> Lachesis: not yet
 501 2011-07-10 03:43:15 <Lachesis> oh? why not?
 502 2011-07-10 03:43:25 <luke-jr> Lachesis: I'd have to write a mod for the bitcoind to do so
 503 2011-07-10 03:43:30 <Lachesis> oh well yeah
 504 2011-07-10 03:43:39 <Lachesis> just if address == "", accept
 505 2011-07-10 03:43:41 <Lachesis> now ""
 506 2011-07-10 03:43:42 <luke-jr> lol
 507 2011-07-10 03:43:43 <Lachesis> not*
 508 2011-07-10 03:43:57 <Lachesis> or if value = 1 satoshi :)
 509 2011-07-10 03:44:13 <luke-jr> actually, it'd be nice to let miners submit a txid with their share ;)
 510 2011-07-10 03:44:14 <Lachesis> just make sure to turn it _off_ after you get the coins :D
 511 2011-07-10 03:44:20 <luke-jr> if it's a valid share, accept that txid
 512 2011-07-10 03:44:27 <Lachesis> hmm that's interesting
 513 2011-07-10 03:44:36 <Lachesis> probably would want more than 1 share
 514 2011-07-10 03:44:44 <Lachesis> btw, is there any good reason that pools don't use diff > 1.0 shares?
 515 2011-07-10 03:44:55 <luke-jr> Lachesis: is there any reason to?
 516 2011-07-10 03:45:00 <Lachesis> it seems that you could dramatically decrease pool server load
 517 2011-07-10 03:45:03 <luke-jr> we don't have any load issues on that side
 518 2011-07-10 03:45:11 <luke-jr> most of the work is the getwork
 519 2011-07-10 03:45:16 <Lachesis> alright
 520 2011-07-10 03:45:16 <luke-jr> which isn't reduced by a higher target
 521 2011-07-10 03:45:17 f33x has joined
 522 2011-07-10 03:45:19 <Lachesis> yeah
 523 2011-07-10 03:45:31 <Lachesis> what we really need is the binary pool protocol
 524 2011-07-10 03:45:32 <luke-jr> also, pushpool doesn't support it
 525 2011-07-10 03:45:43 <luke-jr> Eligius supports the binary pool protocol :p
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 532 2011-07-10 03:54:06 <Lachesis> which of the ecdsa curve does bitcoin use?
 533 2011-07-10 03:54:22 <Lachesis> and/or is there code somewhere that'll generate a public key given a private one?
 534 2011-07-10 03:55:40 <luke-jr> given a sig, at least, I think
 535 2011-07-10 03:56:50 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 536 2011-07-10 03:57:15 <justmoon> Lachesis, secp256k
 537 2011-07-10 03:57:26 <Lachesis> justmoon, ty
 538 2011-07-10 03:57:44 <justmoon> might have to switch p and k always get those two confused ^^
 539 2011-07-10 03:58:51 Kiba` has joined
 540 2011-07-10 03:59:48 <justmoon> yeah, secp256k1 it is
 541 2011-07-10 03:59:54 Kiba` is now known as kiba`
 542 2011-07-10 03:59:58 karnac has joined
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 546 2011-07-10 04:04:42 denisx has joined
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 548 2011-07-10 04:04:44 <denisx> hi
 549 2011-07-10 04:04:56 <denisx> my payoutd had a little fuckup
 550 2011-07-10 04:05:05 blueadept has joined
 551 2011-07-10 04:05:21 moa7 has joined
 552 2011-07-10 04:05:23 <denisx> it repeated a transaktion again and again because bitcoind said it had failed but it didnt
 553 2011-07-10 04:05:46 <denisx> it seems the money is still here but where are the transactions saved?
 554 2011-07-10 04:07:10 <denisx> so can I move back my wallet? I deleted the rest and started a fresh blockchain
 555 2011-07-10 04:07:27 <denisx> or is it possible that there a still transaction in the wallet?
 556 2011-07-10 04:07:36 <denisx> I don't think so but I want to be sure
 557 2011-07-10 04:07:45 <luke-jr> probably is
 558 2011-07-10 04:08:43 kiba`` has joined
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 560 2011-07-10 04:09:35 kiba`` is now known as kiba
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 562 2011-07-10 04:14:18 <Lachesis> anyone know of code that can accept a private key and generate a public key or address for bitcoin?
 563 2011-07-10 04:14:26 <Lachesis> i've got the key in the format of sipa's old patch
 564 2011-07-10 04:14:29 <Lachesis> that is, base58 encoded
 565 2011-07-10 04:16:43 Gonzago has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 566 2011-07-10 04:17:48 rynx has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 567 2011-07-10 04:18:21 <denisx> lolz, my wallet is 68MB in size
 568 2011-07-10 04:21:02 <cuddlefish> Hey, guys
 569 2011-07-10 04:21:09 <cuddlefish> how do I get bitcoind to listen to all IPs
 570 2011-07-10 04:21:11 <justmoon> Lachesis, if it's really just the raw 256 bit key (not familiar with "sipa's old patch") you can download bitcoinjs-gui, open it up in a browser that has a javascript console (firefox w/ firebug, or chrome) and type: new Bitcoin.ECKey(Bitcoin.Base58.decode("...")).getBitcoinAddress().toString()
 571 2011-07-10 04:21:44 <Lachesis> nice, thanks!
 572 2011-07-10 04:21:45 <justmoon> cuddlefish, you mean the rpc?
 573 2011-07-10 04:23:03 <cuddlefish> justmoon: yeah
 574 2011-07-10 04:23:09 umkvec has joined
 575 2011-07-10 04:23:23 <justmoon> cuddlefish, tried rpcallowip=* ?
 576 2011-07-10 04:23:33 <cuddlefish> Oooh
 577 2011-07-10 04:23:51 wtfman is now known as awayman
 578 2011-07-10 04:26:04 <Lachesis> justmoon, the "bitcoinjs-gui/scripts/bitcoinjs-lib/" folder is empty
 579 2011-07-10 04:26:13 <Lachesis> and chromium is complaining that it couldn't find resources
 580 2011-07-10 04:26:17 <justmoon> git submodule update --init
 581 2011-07-10 04:26:36 <justmoon> run that in the bitcoinjs-gui folder
 582 2011-07-10 04:26:56 <Lachesis> thanks
 583 2011-07-10 04:27:40 umkvec has left ()
 584 2011-07-10 04:28:45 Beccara has joined
 585 2011-07-10 04:30:44 <Lachesis> hmm so i have the 256-bit key with an 8-bit version prepended to it
 586 2011-07-10 04:30:48 conjre has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 587 2011-07-10 04:31:00 glitch-mod has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 588 2011-07-10 04:31:08 <justmoon> and a checksum appended?
 589 2011-07-10 04:31:13 <justmoon> or just the version?
 590 2011-07-10 04:31:14 <Lachesis> possibly
 591 2011-07-10 04:31:17 <Lachesis> i think just the version
 592 2011-07-10 04:31:25 <justmoon> ok, can you: Bitcoin.Base58.decode("...").length
 593 2011-07-10 04:31:33 <justmoon> so we know what we're dealing with
 594 2011-07-10 04:31:42 <Lachesis> 27
 595 2011-07-10 04:31:44 <Lachesis> **
 596 2011-07-10 04:31:44 <Lachesis> 37
 597 2011-07-10 04:31:52 <justmoon> i was about to say :D
 598 2011-07-10 04:31:54 <Lachesis> lol ya
 599 2011-07-10 04:32:06 <Lachesis> so that's 37 bytes?
 600 2011-07-10 04:32:13 <justmoon> so 32 bytes private key, 1 byte version, ...
 601 2011-07-10 04:32:17 <Lachesis> 1 byte version + 32 byte key + 4 byte checksum?
 602 2011-07-10 04:32:27 <Lachesis> does JS have slicing notation of any sort?
 603 2011-07-10 04:32:27 <justmoon> yep that should be it
 604 2011-07-10 04:32:33 <justmoon> sure does
 605 2011-07-10 04:32:43 <Lachesis> 1:-4 work?
 606 2011-07-10 04:32:46 <Lachesis> nope :)
 607 2011-07-10 04:32:56 glitch-mod has joined
 608 2011-07-10 04:32:58 <Lachesis> oh, slice :)
 609 2011-07-10 04:32:58 <Lachesis> ok
 610 2011-07-10 04:32:58 <justmoon> new Bitcoin.ECKey(Bitcoin.Base58.decode("...").slice(1, 33).getBitcoinAddress().toString()
 611 2011-07-10 04:33:11 <midnightmagic> incredible.. corrupted wallet.dat, looks like the root node is corrupted. is there a raw hex key extractor out there yet?
 612 2011-07-10 04:34:34 <Lachesis> crap
 613 2011-07-10 04:34:45 <Lachesis> so i tried that and all other slices
 614 2011-07-10 04:34:53 <Lachesis> well not all
 615 2011-07-10 04:35:04 <Lachesis> but starting at 1,2,3,4, and 5
 616 2011-07-10 04:35:12 <Lachesis> and the address doesn't match expected
 617 2011-07-10 04:35:18 <Lachesis> let me go pick through the patch some more
 618 2011-07-10 04:35:24 <justmoon> Lachesis, note that this is start,end not start,length
 619 2011-07-10 04:35:29 <Lachesis> yeah
 620 2011-07-10 04:35:41 <Lachesis> here, this isn't a live key
 621 2011-07-10 04:35:41 <Lachesis> 5KLNnLYrxAKVjTCwjxAA13HnCQeZcGDNr72kYtEnYtHrtBoMVb3 <- testing privkey
 622 2011-07-10 04:35:41 <Lachesis> 1JsY2djutV1mr2Myatotsjhk44p7JT4zhg <- corresponding address
 623 2011-07-10 04:35:54 Beccara has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 624 2011-07-10 04:36:04 <Lachesis> i did 1,33, 2,34, 3,35, ...
 625 2011-07-10 04:36:10 Beccara has joined
 626 2011-07-10 04:36:38 <justmoon> uh
 627 2011-07-10 04:36:41 <justmoon> I get that address
 628 2011-07-10 04:36:46 <justmoon> new Bitcoin.ECKey(Bitcoin.Base58.decode("5KLNnLYrxAKVjTCwjxAA13HnCQeZcGDNr72kYtEnYtHrtBoMVb3").slice(1, 33)).getBitcoinAddress().toString()
 629 2011-07-10 04:37:47 <Lachesis> really?
 630 2011-07-10 04:37:50 <Lachesis> hold on, maybe i borked it
 631 2011-07-10 04:38:09 <Lachesis> oh balls
 632 2011-07-10 04:38:13 <Lachesis> i dropped the 5 by accident
 633 2011-07-10 04:38:18 <Lachesis> lol thanks for sanity check
 634 2011-07-10 04:38:39 <justmoon> np
 635 2011-07-10 04:38:47 <justmoon> bitcoin <3
 636 2011-07-10 04:39:13 <Lachesis> what's your license for that js lib?
 637 2011-07-10 04:39:25 <justmoon> MIT
 638 2011-07-10 04:39:29 <Lachesis> cool
 639 2011-07-10 04:39:37 <Lachesis> i'm going to shamelessly steal as much of your code as i can
 640 2011-07-10 04:39:40 <kiba> hey folks
 641 2011-07-10 04:39:42 <Lachesis> have a donation address?
 642 2011-07-10 04:39:44 <Lachesis> hi kiba
 643 2011-07-10 04:40:32 <justmoon> Lachesis, 1E4WsxQqjXCH4YKg33NJBW8QQQfJzCm7Cx
 644 2011-07-10 04:40:47 <justmoon> Lachesis, but let me know what you're working on, I'll give you a shout out on our twitter!
 645 2011-07-10 04:40:50 <kiba> hmm?
 646 2011-07-10 04:41:01 <justmoon> hi kiba!
 647 2011-07-10 04:41:07 _ape has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 648 2011-07-10 04:41:09 * justmoon waves awkwardly
 649 2011-07-10 04:41:15 * kiba waves
 650 2011-07-10 04:41:25 <kiba> you like, rich? right?
 651 2011-07-10 04:41:32 <justmoon> oh boy
 652 2011-07-10 04:41:36 <kiba> 80,000 BTC or was it something like?
 653 2011-07-10 04:41:42 <justmoon> not exactly
 654 2011-07-10 04:41:45 <justmoon> it was 9000
 655 2011-07-10 04:41:49 <Lachesis> nice
 656 2011-07-10 04:41:50 <justmoon> and I lost a wallet of 7000
 657 2011-07-10 04:41:55 <Lachesis> jeez
 658 2011-07-10 04:41:57 <justmoon> yeah
 659 2011-07-10 04:42:04 <kiba> you lost a wallet of 7000?
 660 2011-07-10 04:42:05 <Lachesis> through stupidity, bad luck, or hacking?
 661 2011-07-10 04:42:07 <justmoon> pretty dedicated to creating better clients since then
 662 2011-07-10 04:42:10 koleg has joined
 663 2011-07-10 04:42:12 <moa7> the ad budget
 664 2011-07-10 04:42:14 <justmoon> Lachesis, stress and stupidity
 665 2011-07-10 04:42:21 <Lachesis> yeah
 666 2011-07-10 04:42:25 <Lachesis> i lost 65 to similar
 667 2011-07-10 04:42:28 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 668 2011-07-10 04:42:30 <Lachesis> and bluematt's bug
 669 2011-07-10 04:42:32 <Lachesis> but 7k...
 670 2011-07-10 04:42:42 <justmoon> I only had three backups (dropbox, usb stick and a virtualbox), but never tested them
 671 2011-07-10 04:42:52 <kiba> you don't have 8500 K btc anymore?
 672 2011-07-10 04:43:15 <justmoon> kiba, I also invested myself, so I'm not bitcoin broke, but I have a lot less than I could have
 673 2011-07-10 04:43:16 * kiba still have 400 BTC and he hangs on to them, tight
 674 2011-07-10 04:43:17 <Lachesis> kiba, that's too many btc to exist
 675 2011-07-10 04:44:02 <kiba> bitcoinweekly is back to profitablity after wreckless spending
 676 2011-07-10 04:44:05 <moa7> justmoon: so lost or stolen?
 677 2011-07-10 04:44:11 <justmoon> moa7: lost
 678 2011-07-10 04:44:15 <justmoon> still sitting there
 679 2011-07-10 04:44:19 <justmoon> quiet waiting
 680 2011-07-10 04:44:19 <kiba> 7 K BTC lost
 681 2011-07-10 04:44:22 <justmoon> for a transaction
 682 2011-07-10 04:44:24 <justmoon> that will never come
 683 2011-07-10 04:44:34 <moa7> if lost everybody holding btc is better off
 684 2011-07-10 04:44:34 Beccara has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 685 2011-07-10 04:44:37 <moa7> at least there is that
 686 2011-07-10 04:44:49 <justmoon> moa7, yeah those were promised to benefit the community, so I guess...
 687 2011-07-10 04:44:53 <justmoon> it kinda did that
 688 2011-07-10 04:45:01 Beccara has joined
 689 2011-07-10 04:45:03 <kiba> meh
 690 2011-07-10 04:45:11 <kiba> your video were great anyway
 691 2011-07-10 04:45:15 <justmoon> thanks
 692 2011-07-10 04:45:22 <moa7> maybe if we trump it as a big "story" for the msm it will have same effect it was intended for
 693 2011-07-10 04:45:51 <kiba> (not to mention I no longer have the responsiblity of holding it)
 694 2011-07-10 04:45:59 puhc has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 695 2011-07-10 04:45:59 <moa7> yeah, video is up to 0.5 mill hits now
 696 2011-07-10 04:46:02 <midnightmagic> err.. sorry i can't scroll back, did someone mention something about a hex recovery of a wallet?
 697 2011-07-10 04:46:26 <midnightmagic> (stupid iphone)
 698 2011-07-10 04:46:46 <kiba> I finally have a job
 699 2011-07-10 04:46:59 <kiba> so I can start pumping up my holding in BTC
 700 2011-07-10 04:47:09 <kiba> and buying stuff in BTC
 701 2011-07-10 04:47:12 kluge has joined
 702 2011-07-10 04:47:25 <justmoon> midnightmagic, nobody replied, sorry
 703 2011-07-10 04:47:34 <moa7> 0.58 mill ... and growing and 20k new hits per day actually
 704 2011-07-10 04:48:02 <justmoon> midnightmagic, I have a script that looks for the keyA and so can extract corrupted wallets from a dead harddrive, but it sounds like you need a scalpel, not a shovel
 705 2011-07-10 04:48:56 * kiba wishes Bitcoin Weekly becomes popular overnight
 706 2011-07-10 04:49:00 <midnightmagic> gah brutal..
 707 2011-07-10 04:49:27 <midnightmagic> justmoon; does it use page pattern matching or does it look for the root node?
 708 2011-07-10 04:49:41 <midnightmagic> god i hate reversing berkeley db
 709 2011-07-10 04:49:42 <moa7> kiba: ru n a story on phone hacking corruption in UK
 710 2011-07-10 04:50:00 <kiba> is it about bitcoin?
 711 2011-07-10 04:50:07 <kiba> anyway
 712 2011-07-10 04:50:09 <moa7> make some crap up about people getting paid in bitcoins
 713 2011-07-10 04:50:14 <kiba> my writers write whatever they want
 714 2011-07-10 04:50:21 <moa7> that's what news of world did ....
 715 2011-07-10 04:50:34 <kiba> but Bitcoin Weekly doesn't do news
 716 2011-07-10 04:50:40 <justmoon> midnightmagic, note how every public key is preceded by "keyA" and then a 0x04 byte, that's what it looks for and then extracts 1KB from there, meaning it'll definitely catch the private keys, just won't know what the private keys are in all the garbage
 717 2011-07-10 04:50:40 <Blitzboom> kiba: should’ve hoarded more
 718 2011-07-10 04:50:52 <justmoon> midnightmagic, so if you already have the wallet.dat this won't help you any
 719 2011-07-10 04:50:55 <Blitzboom> you guys should generally hoard more
 720 2011-07-10 04:51:20 <kiba> Blitzboom: I didn't have a job so I can't hoard much
 721 2011-07-10 04:51:28 <kiba> now I can horde more
 722 2011-07-10 04:51:34 <Blitzboom> ah
 723 2011-07-10 04:51:34 <kiba> just need to set up my dwolla account
 724 2011-07-10 04:51:52 <midnightmagic> hrm.. justmoon: is the privkey at an expected point after that? is there a preceding pattern?
 725 2011-07-10 04:51:58 <kiba> (and through stupidity I lost my GPG key :()
 726 2011-07-10 04:52:09 <moa7> hypothetically, if someone wanted to buy 25k btc what is best way to do that right now?
 727 2011-07-10 04:52:22 osmosis has joined
 728 2011-07-10 04:52:33 <Blitzboom> buy ’em on mtgox
 729 2011-07-10 04:52:36 <midnightmagic> moa7: send money to mtgox, buy on the market at the next dip
 730 2011-07-10 04:52:55 <justmoon> midnightmagic, I was gonna just look for the right publickey (that one is always at the same place) and only worry about extracting the private key if I found the right public key - I never did, so project abandoned
 731 2011-07-10 04:52:57 <Blitzboom> i doubt there’ll be a next dip
 732 2011-07-10 04:53:01 <moa7> would you put 0.5mill into gox?
 733 2011-07-10 04:53:21 <midnightmagic> okay, thanks justmoon, i appreciate it.
 734 2011-07-10 04:53:24 <kiba> I don't trust exchanges anymore
 735 2011-07-10 04:53:27 <forrestv> Blitzboom, the exchange rate will never go down? :p
 736 2011-07-10 04:53:48 <Blitzboom> not from this point
 737 2011-07-10 04:53:51 <kiba> I believe mtgox is more secure, though
 738 2011-07-10 04:54:09 <Blitzboom> mtgox is good if you use their yubikey
 739 2011-07-10 04:54:17 <Blitzboom> it’s used for logins and withdraws
 740 2011-07-10 04:54:44 <Blitzboom> i trust MT, so i’m comfortable having my bitcoins there now
 741 2011-07-10 04:55:07 <doublec> moa7: do it in chunks, deposit, buy btc, withdraw, repeat
 742 2011-07-10 04:55:11 <doublec> moa7: across multiple exchanges
 743 2011-07-10 04:55:33 <Blitzboom> hypothetically, of course
 744 2011-07-10 04:55:45 <doublec> moa7: that'll help avoid the $1000 limit some exchnages have too
 745 2011-07-10 04:55:46 <moa7> hypothetically of course
 746 2011-07-10 04:55:56 <Blitzboom> and coincidentally, that’s the same amount of BTC allinvain lost!
 747 2011-07-10 04:56:15 <moa7> but he's not selling those anymore!
 748 2011-07-10 04:57:20 <justmoon> Blitzboom, so I guess the best way to invest into 25k bitcoin is hire some hackers :P
 749 2011-07-10 04:57:24 <doublec> I wonder if you'd get busted for structuring
 750 2011-07-10 04:57:29 <doublec> for using multiple exchanges and accounts
 751 2011-07-10 04:57:32 <moa7> just s threshold to use to consider the next level of potential btc adopter
 752 2011-07-10 04:57:32 <Blitzboom> justmoon: LOL. so true …
 753 2011-07-10 04:57:33 <doublec> to avoid the $1000 limit
 754 2011-07-10 04:57:53 <Blitzboom> justmoon: i’m pretty angry at how profitable it is to be a bitcoin criminal
 755 2011-07-10 04:58:15 <Blitzboom> shit incentives right there
 756 2011-07-10 04:58:18 <justmoon> Blitzboom, everybody is working on it right now I think
 757 2011-07-10 04:58:21 <moa7> blitzboom: the security consultants should be asking more to protect
 758 2011-07-10 04:58:26 <justmoon> including myself (webcoin)
 759 2011-07-10 04:58:44 denisx has left ()
 760 2011-07-10 04:59:10 <Blitzboom> mybitcoin accounts were robbed too, after the mtgox leak
 761 2011-07-10 04:59:36 <Blitzboom> it’s just too fucking easy to withdraw bitcoins everywhere
 762 2011-07-10 04:59:52 <Blitzboom> email confirmation should be the bare minimum
 763 2011-07-10 04:59:56 <kiba> hmm
 764 2011-07-10 05:00:01 <Blitzboom> and mtgox didn’t even require that
 765 2011-07-10 05:00:07 * kiba yawn
 766 2011-07-10 05:00:40 <moa7> * moa7 coughs
 767 2011-07-10 05:01:06 <moa7> irc noob
 768 2011-07-10 05:01:16 <lolcat> How much is btc at now?
 769 2011-07-10 05:01:27 <justmoon> moa7, /me coughs
 770 2011-07-10 05:01:40 <moa7> thnx
 771 2011-07-10 05:01:44 <Blitzboom> i would rather have coins lost than stolen
 772 2011-07-10 05:01:56 <doublec> I would rather have coins
 773 2011-07-10 05:02:49 <kiba> I am tired
 774 2011-07-10 05:02:51 <Blitzboom> would it be possible for bitcoin clients to demand additional verification than your private keys?
 775 2011-07-10 05:02:53 <kiba> I wanna code some more..
 776 2011-07-10 05:02:59 <kiba> but I need to sleep
 777 2011-07-10 05:03:21 <Blitzboom> i don’t see how it could be enfocred for every client though
 778 2011-07-10 05:04:13 <justmoon> Blitzboom, what additional verification are you thinking of?
 779 2011-07-10 05:04:29 <Blitzboom> could be anything. yubikey for example
 780 2011-07-10 05:05:21 <Blitzboom> but that can’t work decentralized, can it?
 781 2011-07-10 05:05:39 <justmoon> Blitzboom, there are three major avenues that I know of, gavin's split keys, gmaxwell's deterministic wallet and hardware devices
 782 2011-07-10 05:06:07 <Blitzboom> care to explain 1 and 2?
 783 2011-07-10 05:06:14 <justmoon> the only thing that's really secure against trojans is and will always be hardware devices
 784 2011-07-10 05:06:49 <justmoon> split keys is you split the key and one half is on a server, so the server needs to give it's ok, so it's like a bank you can tell them to enforce limits etc.
 785 2011-07-10 05:06:53 <Blitzboom> yes, but those include counterparty risk … ?
 786 2011-07-10 05:07:12 <justmoon> you can read split keys thread on the forum
 787 2011-07-10 05:08:12 <Blitzboom> i see. i guess it’s a tradeoff …
 788 2011-07-10 05:08:24 <Blitzboom> either you have counterparty risk or security risk being yourself
 789 2011-07-10 05:09:31 <justmoon> well there is risk of loss and risk of theft and those kinda require a balance, too
 790 2011-07-10 05:09:32 nocreativenick1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 791 2011-07-10 05:09:43 <justmoon> more copies: less risk of loss, more risk of theft, etc.
 792 2011-07-10 05:10:03 <moa7> if you assume a secure environment you can parade your keys naked, if you assume an insecure envirnoment you have to be more discreet about when you reveal your privates
 793 2011-07-10 05:10:04 <Blitzboom> depending on your encryption strength
 794 2011-07-10 05:10:35 <justmoon> Blitzboom, I have an encrypted wallet of 7000 coins here on an ironkey, 4 tries left, no fucking idea what the password is
 795 2011-07-10 05:10:49 <moa7> oh feck
 796 2011-07-10 05:10:54 <Blitzboom> if we continue to strip bitcoin of its fundamental advantages, will in the end be anything left of bitcoin at all?
 797 2011-07-10 05:10:56 skEwb has joined
 798 2011-07-10 05:10:57 <justmoon> like not even a clue, I was so stressed out and sleep deprived when I set that up
 799 2011-07-10 05:11:04 <moa7> 4 tries ... shall we run a lottery on the passwrd?
 800 2011-07-10 05:11:33 <justmoon> moa7, lol, it's a cryptographically secure password, because I'm me
 801 2011-07-10 05:11:56 <Blitzboom> justmoon: i always considered such passwords dangerous
 802 2011-07-10 05:12:07 <Blitzboom> if you don’t write them down
 803 2011-07-10 05:12:20 <justmoon> but that's my point, if you use a secure password you risk loss, if you write it down you risk theft, it goes on and on
 804 2011-07-10 05:12:35 <moa7> yep.
 805 2011-07-10 05:12:36 f33x has joined
 806 2011-07-10 05:12:42 <Blitzboom> no perfect solution :(
 807 2011-07-10 05:12:44 <moa7> that's the nature of the beast
 808 2011-07-10 05:13:13 <moa7> security vs. usuability thingy
 809 2011-07-10 05:13:35 <Blitzboom> my thought is that if we continue to make bitcoin more usable, will it be bitcoin at all when we’re done?
 810 2011-07-10 05:13:43 <Blitzboom> it will be more and more centralized
 811 2011-07-10 05:14:09 <justmoon> Blitzboom, centralization != monopoly
 812 2011-07-10 05:14:22 nocreativenick1 has joined
 813 2011-07-10 05:14:25 <justmoon> centralization if there are no barriers to entry is not a problem
 814 2011-07-10 05:14:26 Tim-7967 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 815 2011-07-10 05:14:36 <justmoon> soon as the central thing messes up in any way other will jump in
 816 2011-07-10 05:14:41 <justmoon> others*
 817 2011-07-10 05:14:55 <Blitzboom> true, but if bitcoin succeeds, i fear there will be barriers to entry
 818 2011-07-10 05:15:02 <Blitzboom> legal ones
 819 2011-07-10 05:15:23 <justmoon> Blitzboom, yeah, that worries me too
 820 2011-07-10 05:15:48 <moa7> the monetary economics part is in the protocol and that can't be centralised without risking dis-engagement
 821 2011-07-10 05:16:32 <moa7> people stop playng a rigged game eventually
 822 2011-07-10 05:16:36 enquirer has joined
 823 2011-07-10 05:16:47 <moa7> even if it is only one in town
 824 2011-07-10 05:16:52 <justmoon> moa7, yeah, but you know the frog and the slow boil
 825 2011-07-10 05:17:07 <Blitzboom> i think it’s possible that even with bitcoin, people will get tricked into central and fractional reserve banking again
 826 2011-07-10 05:17:08 <moa7> "the monkey throw the peanuts out of the cage" syndrome
 827 2011-07-10 05:17:36 <justmoon> Blitzboom, exactly, same as gold - then again, no reason to be pessimistic
 828 2011-07-10 05:17:40 <Blitzboom> the only hope is that the decentralized bitcoin will be more accessible and easier to use
 829 2011-07-10 05:17:46 <moa7> Blitzboom: not the people now at the core of bitcoin apparently
 830 2011-07-10 05:17:48 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 831 2011-07-10 05:17:55 <justmoon> right now we're in a better position than we were in the last 98 years
 832 2011-07-10 05:17:57 <Blitzboom> justmoon: because you can’t warp gold
 833 2011-07-10 05:18:21 <moa7> and there is always namecoin ;)
 834 2011-07-10 05:18:30 <Blitzboom> so the argument coud be made that the only reason for central and fractional reserve banking is that it’s more convenient
 835 2011-07-10 05:18:33 <cuddlefish> tcatm: Hey, mind helping me with bitcoin-js-remote?
 836 2011-07-10 05:18:53 <Blitzboom> now we have bitcoin with the potential to be more convenient than the current system
 837 2011-07-10 05:19:35 <Blitzboom> meh, we’ll see how it plays out. history tends to repeat itself though
 838 2011-07-10 05:20:47 <justmoon> Blitzboom, if history does repeat itself, it'll take 120 years and a civil war to get bitcoin off of sound money ;)
 839 2011-07-10 05:21:22 <justmoon> (that's glossing over a lot of the details, but I don't have time for a detailed analysis of american monetary history, so gimme a break)
 840 2011-07-10 05:22:28 <Blitzboom> i don’t think there were lots of people who cared for the abandonment of the gold standard
 841 2011-07-10 05:22:52 <justmoon> cared for? you mean cared about?
 842 2011-07-10 05:23:00 <Blitzboom> erm, yes
 843 2011-07-10 05:23:39 <justmoon> well, in the 70s there weren't but in the 19th century they were definitely fighting to get back on some kind of gold standard after the civil war
 844 2011-07-10 05:23:47 <justmoon> they* weren't
 845 2011-07-10 05:23:53 <Blitzboom> if the US still had the gold standard, they couldn’t afford to spend so much at war
 846 2011-07-10 05:25:20 <justmoon> hehe, "war stimulates the economy" haven't you heard? ....
 847 2011-07-10 05:29:04 <Blitzboom> of course, without war we wouldn’t have internet
 848 2011-07-10 05:29:19 <dsockwell> you don't think so?
 849 2011-07-10 05:29:42 <nanotube> we'd probably have much better internet :)
 850 2011-07-10 05:29:45 <justmoon> dsockwell, you DO think so? o_O
 851 2011-07-10 05:29:51 <Blitzboom> haha, i don’t know. but military pressure certainly forces states to innovate
 852 2011-07-10 05:30:10 <nanotube> competition forces businesses to innovate
 853 2011-07-10 05:30:13 <Blitzboom> competition on nation basis actually
 854 2011-07-10 05:30:19 <nanotube> without all the wasteful destruction
 855 2011-07-10 05:30:31 <justmoon> Blitzboom, woooot, I'm with nanotube here
 856 2011-07-10 05:30:42 <Blitzboom> yeah, i agree as well
 857 2011-07-10 05:30:55 <Blitzboom> war has probably killed off much more innovation than it has ever created
 858 2011-07-10 05:30:58 <justmoon> the private sector also provides sustainable innovation not moon rockets can we can't even replicate a few decades later
 859 2011-07-10 05:31:14 <nanotube> Blitzboom: nations are made of people. :) any 'war-time innovation' is simply peace-time innovation redirected.
 860 2011-07-10 05:31:30 <nanotube> there's no magical extra innovation coming out of nowhere
 861 2011-07-10 05:31:40 <nanotube> there's no magical extra capital coming out of nowhere either
 862 2011-07-10 05:31:40 <Blitzboom> nanotube: it’s the uniforms
 863 2011-07-10 05:31:51 <justmoon> Blitzboom, lol
 864 2011-07-10 05:31:53 <nanotube> ah right, forgot all about those. :)
 865 2011-07-10 05:32:28 <justmoon> I always wanted a uniform like those banana republic dictators always have
 866 2011-07-10 05:32:37 <justmoon> like 600 medals on that shit
 867 2011-07-10 05:33:25 <justmoon> http://media.monstersandcritics.com/galleries/1887291/0184442655085.jpg
 868 2011-07-10 05:33:27 <justmoon> hell yeah
 869 2011-07-10 05:33:30 <justmoon> gimme some of that
 870 2011-07-10 05:33:35 <Blitzboom> hahaha, i just googled the same
 871 2011-07-10 05:33:48 <Blitzboom> http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/gaddafi_02_571469a.jpg
 872 2011-07-10 05:33:57 <Blitzboom> i want this keyboard
 873 2011-07-10 05:33:58 <wirehead> slap a couple boyscout sashes on that, who'll know the difference
 874 2011-07-10 05:34:51 <justmoon> lol apparently borat/bruno had the same idea: http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/sacha-baron-cohens-dictator-revealed-20110610-1fw0l.html
 875 2011-07-10 05:34:57 <Blitzboom> justmoon: i’m a bit sad that those space missions are cancelled
 876 2011-07-10 05:35:38 <Blitzboom> probably it’ll be china who sends the first man to mars
 877 2011-07-10 05:36:08 <Blitzboom> justmoon: haha, that’s a great uniform
 878 2011-07-10 05:36:13 <justmoon> who gives a shit who sends somebody somewhere first, I wanna go to space myself, not some dude on tv
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 882 2011-07-10 05:36:23 <justmoon> and virgin galactic is a much better shot for me to do that than the gov
 883 2011-07-10 05:36:38 <Blitzboom> i want a trip to the moon too
 884 2011-07-10 05:37:37 <justmoon> Blitzboom, same thing
 885 2011-07-10 05:38:00 <justmoon> virgin galactic is a better chance for you to go to the moon than the government
 886 2011-07-10 05:38:51 <doublec> sending the government to the moon sounds like a great idea
 887 2011-07-10 05:38:54 <doublec> we could leave them there
 888 2011-07-10 05:39:01 <justmoon> doublec, xD
 889 2011-07-10 05:39:04 <Blitzboom> :D
 890 2011-07-10 05:39:15 <justmoon> well, if they keep going the way they are, they might need to flee to the moon
 891 2011-07-10 05:39:16 <Blitzboom> white house now residing on the moon
 892 2011-07-10 05:39:56 <Blitzboom> justmoon: haha, modern europeans/US and revolution
 893 2011-07-10 05:40:03 <Blitzboom> that’ll probably need 10 more bailouts
 894 2011-07-10 05:41:22 <justmoon> hmm well, the other option is a 20th century re-run
 895 2011-07-10 05:41:43 <JackStorm> doublec: that does no good, you need to not send the gov to the moon, but the people who voted for gov to the moon, else you are stuck in an infinite loop .... and you could sell it as "Come see Wylzak"
 896 2011-07-10 05:41:47 <justmoon> or I guess option 3: something else happens
 897 2011-07-10 05:42:02 <Blitzboom> JackStorm: you don’t "vote" for government
 898 2011-07-10 05:42:42 copumpkin has joined
 899 2011-07-10 05:43:48 <doublec> JackStorm: good point
 900 2011-07-10 05:44:04 <JackStorm> Blitzboom: well you vote people in who influence local to county, and then vote on those who influence state and then ...well on and on
 901 2011-07-10 05:44:24 <doublec> In new zealand we vote for government
 902 2011-07-10 05:44:30 <Blitzboom> also, there will always come a new generation which favors government
 903 2011-07-10 05:44:43 <Blitzboom> abort them? :D
 904 2011-07-10 05:45:17 <JackStorm> Blitzboom: no, then you work on the education system :)
 905 2011-07-10 05:45:19 <doublec> we need a option for "I choose none of these" when voting
 906 2011-07-10 05:45:23 <Blitzboom> people want someone to be in charge so they can blame that person
 907 2011-07-10 05:45:43 <cuddlefish> doublec: it's called not voting.
 908 2011-07-10 05:45:49 <justmoon> JackStorm, the problem isn't the people in government - they have to do what they do, or they won't be able to get reelection
 909 2011-07-10 05:45:59 <moa7> war accelerates innovation but destroys infrastructure ... trade wars are preferable but they tend to escalate
 910 2011-07-10 05:46:07 <doublec> cuddlefish: but that doesn't give a stat for people who delibrately don't want any of the choices vs the lazy ones who don't vote
 911 2011-07-10 05:46:13 <JackStorm> Honestly, I kinda like the "forced to serve the gov, so you can vote" option.
 912 2011-07-10 05:46:31 <Blitzboom> doublec: can’t you just leave it blank or write gibberish?
 913 2011-07-10 05:46:41 <JackStorm> justmoon: and thats the problem, forced job security based on FUD
 914 2011-07-10 05:46:53 <cuddlefish> doublec: perhaps you can vote independent, since with first-past-the-post it's basically a null vote?
 915 2011-07-10 05:46:54 <Blitzboom> that’s in the stats here
 916 2011-07-10 05:46:55 <doublec> Blitzboom: there still wouldn't be official recognition of the choice
 917 2011-07-10 05:47:08 <doublec> I think it'd be interesting to know how many people voted "No" to everyone
 918 2011-07-10 05:47:09 <Blitzboom> no, but at least it would be in the published statistics
 919 2011-07-10 05:47:36 <doublec> I should just start a "We don't want to govern" party and see who votes
 920 2011-07-10 05:47:46 <doublec> It'd suck to get voted in though
 921 2011-07-10 05:47:50 <Blitzboom> i’d rather like to vote on governmental system and economic system
 922 2011-07-10 05:47:59 <JackStorm> doublec: there was a study done on that in the US, and I can't remember when, or who
 923 2011-07-10 05:48:11 <justmoon> Blitzboom, still you're voting
 924 2011-07-10 05:48:11 <Blitzboom> i don’t particularly like crony capitalism, and i think neither does the majority of people
 925 2011-07-10 05:48:21 <Blitzboom> so that’s undemocratic
 926 2011-07-10 05:48:25 <cuddlefish> Hey, i'm giving away 0.05 BTC to the first person who links to a QR code of their address.
 927 2011-07-10 05:48:29 Diablo-D3 has joined
 928 2011-07-10 05:48:42 <cuddlefish> have at it
 929 2011-07-10 05:48:45 <justmoon> Blitzboom, the only way to get freedom is vote with your feet - like have different systems in different places and let people move freely
 930 2011-07-10 05:49:01 <justmoon> unfortunately no new places to discover, except the internet In a sense
 931 2011-07-10 05:49:12 <Blitzboom> true
 932 2011-07-10 05:49:27 <Blitzboom> the internet is the free citizen’s last resort
 933 2011-07-10 05:49:27 <justmoon> or seasteading if you're quite forward thinking/crazy :D
 934 2011-07-10 05:49:32 <JackStorm> doublec: come to think of it, Michigan got in some heat over it here in the US, they put something on the Ballot where if you read it, you would vote no, did not care vote no, but the no's really ment yes
 935 2011-07-10 05:49:48 <doublec> cuddlefish: http://qr.ma.eatgold.com/temp/bitcoin1B7CBdZzvURFkEjAWDv3N7JjtyEXTByCfw.png
 936 2011-07-10 05:50:02 <nanotube> http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=8&d=1F1dPZxdxVVigpGdsafnZ3cFBdMGDADFDe
 937 2011-07-10 05:50:06 <nanotube> bah, too late
 938 2011-07-10 05:50:09 <nanotube> beaten by doublec :)
 939 2011-07-10 05:50:12 <doublec> :)
 940 2011-07-10 05:50:16 <moa7> doublec: vote libertarianz
 941 2011-07-10 05:50:19 <doublec> It took me a while to find a qr service
 942 2011-07-10 05:50:31 <cuddlefish> doublec: sent.
 943 2011-07-10 05:50:35 <moa7> it is like a non-vote
 944 2011-07-10 05:50:45 <doublec> cuddlefish: received, thanks!
 945 2011-07-10 05:50:53 <doublec> cuddlefish: did you use the android app?
 946 2011-07-10 05:51:41 <cuddlefish> doublec: not after it ate my wallet, no.
 947 2011-07-10 05:51:51 <cuddlefish> I used bitcoin-js-remote and an android phone
 948 2011-07-10 05:51:53 <cuddlefish> works WAY better
 949 2011-07-10 05:51:57 <JackStorm> moa7: next election everythong should do a write in for Roshambo and see if anyone gets it.
 950 2011-07-10 05:51:59 <doublec> nice
 951 2011-07-10 05:52:00 <cuddlefish> account support, all that fun
 952 2011-07-10 05:52:06 <cuddlefish> HIGHLY recommended
 953 2011-07-10 05:52:18 <doublec> I'll give it a try
 954 2011-07-10 05:52:31 <cuddlefish> scans QR codes, shows current block number (since it's an RPC call, you connect it to your bitcoind)
 955 2011-07-10 05:52:49 <cuddlefish> nice to be able to see connections, too
 956 2011-07-10 05:53:19 <cuddlefish> Hmmm. Should address generation throw out addresses with offensive language?
 957 2011-07-10 05:53:59 <cuddlefish> I mean, if Grandpa discovers bitcoin, tries it out, and gets 1F1dPZxdxVVigpGdsafnZ3cFBdMGDcunt9
 958 2011-07-10 05:54:05 <cuddlefish> it's really all bad
 959 2011-07-10 05:55:00 <infinitevs> LOL
 960 2011-07-10 05:55:19 <infinitevs> he can deal with it
 961 2011-07-10 05:55:38 <nanotube> haha yea, he survived ww2, he can survive an accidental badword.
 962 2011-07-10 05:55:54 <cuddlefish> i have an address starting with 1666, too
 963 2011-07-10 05:56:00 <infinitevs> the chances against him getting that what co-incide with the chances that dude was actually being a cunt
 964 2011-07-10 05:56:07 <justmoon> you guys have it good, I see bad words in EVERY address
 965 2011-07-10 05:56:15 <cuddlefish> 1w369u
 966 2011-07-10 05:56:27 <cuddlefish> hmm
 967 2011-07-10 05:56:36 <cuddlefish> *fires up vanitygen and pms BitcoinPorn*
 968 2011-07-10 05:56:39 <nanotube> 1F1dPZxdxVVigpGdsafnZ3cFBdMGDcunt9 <-- the bad word here is Vigp, right? :D
 969 2011-07-10 05:56:48 <infinitevs> hehehehe~!
 970 2011-07-10 05:56:52 <nanotube> you fsckin vigp!
 971 2011-07-10 05:57:15 <nanotube> justmoon: :)
 972 2011-07-10 05:57:29 <infinitevs> :)
 973 2011-07-10 05:57:34 <nanotube> hehe
 974 2011-07-10 05:59:08 <moa7> wanna hear a vision of totalitarian bitcoin dystopia?
 975 2011-07-10 05:59:42 <justmoon> moa7, oh yeah, I was just thinking - you know what I'd love? I'd love to hear a vision of totalitarian bitcoin dystopia
 976 2011-07-10 05:59:53 Glyph-sheep has joined
 977 2011-07-10 05:59:59 <justmoon> no but go ahead
 978 2011-07-10 06:00:01 <nanotube> read my mind!
 979 2011-07-10 06:00:02 <nanotube> hehe
 980 2011-07-10 06:00:14 <doublec> there should be a market in interesting addresses
 981 2011-07-10 06:00:20 <doublec> buying/selling private keys for them
 982 2011-07-10 06:00:34 <Blitzboom> you can’t sell private keys
 983 2011-07-10 06:00:46 <moa7> WNO OWG co-opts btc, everyone gets one address, generated beginning with 1666 and noone may buy or sell without using it
 984 2011-07-10 06:00:47 <Blitzboom> as you can never be sure it will be deleted by the seller
 985 2011-07-10 06:00:59 <doublec> true
 986 2011-07-10 06:01:20 <moa7> s/WNO/NWO
 987 2011-07-10 06:01:39 <Blitzboom> that’s why i think satoshi can’t really make use of most of his bitcoins
 988 2011-07-10 06:01:43 <dsockwell> lol.
 989 2011-07-10 06:02:14 <moa7> QR code /pub key CUYA
 990 2011-07-10 06:02:25 <moa7> *QR code tatoo
 991 2011-07-10 06:02:50 <Blitzboom> because a party that you would trust so much to not abuse private keys you wouldn’t really do business with anyway
 992 2011-07-10 06:02:53 <Blitzboom> you’d share
 993 2011-07-10 06:03:20 <JackStorm> nanotube: Yeah, grandpa was in WWII, and C-Rations included smokes and a condom in the pacific theater, but grandpa's fruit thinks she has a snowflake, so it might be a non issue
 994 2011-07-10 06:03:53 <nanotube> hehe
 995 2011-07-10 06:09:10 thesheff17 has joined
 996 2011-07-10 06:09:12 <moa7> is why we need namecoin and torcoin and *coin ... more the merrier
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1000 2011-07-10 06:10:46 Diablo-D3 has joined
1001 2011-07-10 06:11:50 <Blitzboom> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26985.0
1002 2011-07-10 06:11:51 <Blitzboom> LOL
1003 2011-07-10 06:11:57 Tim-7967 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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1010 2011-07-10 06:13:54 <billy_ran_away> Anyone active here?
1011 2011-07-10 06:13:59 <infinitevs> #circuits
1012 2011-07-10 06:16:36 <doublec> haha, nice banners
1013 2011-07-10 06:17:29 <Blitzboom> i especially like the first
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1016 2011-07-10 06:20:19 AStove has joined
1017 2011-07-10 06:22:37 <cuddlefish> Heeey!
1018 2011-07-10 06:22:48 <cuddlefish> I just realized
1019 2011-07-10 06:22:53 <cuddlefish> you guys are using Boost, no?
1020 2011-07-10 06:22:55 <cuddlefish> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_46_1/libs/python/doc/tutorial/doc/html/python/exposing.html
1021 2011-07-10 06:23:18 <cuddlefish> i'll make you a Bitcoin Python library
1022 2011-07-10 06:25:19 <knotwork> my router is a SpeedStream 6520 Series, miniupnpc seems to either set some weird wrong value in it or read sme weird value trying to list what it did to it
1023 2011-07-10 06:26:15 <knotwork> does upnpc-static / upnpc-shred normally show chars from strange character-sets as port number?
1024 2011-07-10 06:26:16 <sacarlson> your router?  I thought it was your ISP's router?
1025 2011-07-10 06:26:27 <knotwork> yeah my ISPs really
1026 2011-07-10 06:26:34 <sacarlson> ok
1027 2011-07-10 06:26:45 <knotwork> mine hasnt been used in years, it predates upnp I think
1028 2011-07-10 06:27:02 dr_win has joined
1029 2011-07-10 06:27:20 <knotwork> but mainstream ISP presumably is using pretty standard router so all the windows users dont complain that xbox or msn live or whatever wont work
1030 2011-07-10 06:27:30 <sacarlson> I was surprized with my billion router I couldn't turn it off
1031 2011-07-10 06:28:03 <knotwork> well gsoh we cant let you shut bill gates out y'know
1032 2011-07-10 06:28:37 <sacarlson> I guess not
1033 2011-07-10 06:28:58 unclemantis has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1034 2011-07-10 06:29:11 <sacarlson> only way to really stop them is to preassign all to my server but I decieded to just give them all above 1024
1035 2011-07-10 06:29:58 <sacarlson> and I preassign my own for proto coins
1036 2011-07-10 06:30:09 <cuddlefish> Woooooo! this is gonna be GREAT
1037 2011-07-10 06:30:22 <cuddlefish> 1 Python Bitcoin module, coming right up
1038 2011-07-10 06:30:25 <sacarlson> what's up cudd?
1039 2011-07-10 06:30:41 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: Discovered http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_46_1/libs/python/doc/tutorial/doc/html/python/exposing.html
1040 2011-07-10 06:31:00 <sacarlson> opps didn't know I was on this channel
1041 2011-07-10 06:31:13 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: why wouldn't they
1042 2011-07-10 06:31:51 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: sorry I thought I was on #multicoin as I saw knotwork's green leters
1043 2011-07-10 06:31:57 <cuddlefish> ah
1044 2011-07-10 06:32:04 <cuddlefish> those were green?
1045 2011-07-10 06:32:06 * cuddlefish is confused
1046 2011-07-10 06:32:15 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: ya hee's a martian
1047 2011-07-10 06:32:28 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1048 2011-07-10 06:33:19 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1049 2011-07-10 06:34:27 <cuddlefish> But yeah, we'll be seeing some nice innovation VERY soon
1050 2011-07-10 06:35:26 clarkbox has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1051 2011-07-10 06:36:09 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: what you making in python?
1052 2011-07-10 06:36:26 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: First, just the awesomeness of having a Bitcoin shell
1053 2011-07-10 06:36:40 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: I think we have one
1054 2011-07-10 06:36:44 clarkbox has joined
1055 2011-07-10 06:37:02 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: No, one that actually runs Satoshi's code, not some brain-dead re-implementation
1056 2011-07-10 06:37:06 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: you might want to look at the one they have
1057 2011-07-10 06:37:16 <cuddlefish> where?
1058 2011-07-10 06:37:28 <sacarlson> no the one I know just does rpc into the bitcoin I think
1059 2011-07-10 06:37:32 <cuddlefish> yeah.
1060 2011-07-10 06:37:40 <cuddlefish> this is actually calling the internals
1061 2011-07-10 06:37:49 <sacarlson> this sounds like a more direct to the function level
1062 2011-07-10 06:38:02 <cuddlefish> bitcoind built as a shared library, with python wrapper
1063 2011-07-10 06:38:20 <sacarlson> ya that's the one forget the name
1064 2011-07-10 06:38:20 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: It ain't Bitcoin unless you can make it segfault!
1065 2011-07-10 06:38:55 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: well for a while it was the only gui I had that ran on ubuntu without compiled extra libs
1066 2011-07-10 06:39:05 <cuddlefish> spesmilo?
1067 2011-07-10 06:39:09 <cuddlefish> no, no
1068 2011-07-10 06:39:10 <sacarlson> yes
1069 2011-07-10 06:39:13 <cuddlefish> that's just a RPC interface
1070 2011-07-10 06:39:21 <cuddlefish> that doesn't create innovation in the way I mean
1071 2011-07-10 06:39:25 <sacarlson> well bitcoind is all I play with
1072 2011-07-10 06:39:38 <sacarlson> or was playing with at the time
1073 2011-07-10 06:40:00 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: now I've moved on to the qt based gui
1074 2011-07-10 06:40:03 <cuddlefish> I mean "Screwing around with transactions! Double-spending for fun! Manual transaction relaying! Signing weird things with your wallet.dat!
1075 2011-07-10 06:40:29 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: sounds cool to me
1076 2011-07-10 06:40:47 <cuddlefish> actually interactively hacking the internals of Bitcoin
1077 2011-07-10 06:40:56 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: I think the block explorrer is also writen in python
1078 2011-07-10 06:41:06 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: it RPCs in
1079 2011-07-10 06:41:29 <sacarlson> no I think it just takes apart the index files
1080 2011-07-10 06:41:33 <cuddlefish> patches for custom RPCs, though
1081 2011-07-10 06:41:39 <sacarlson> and formats them for human readability
1082 2011-07-10 06:42:05 <cuddlefish> that wouldn't work, they're locked
1083 2011-07-10 06:42:19 <sacarlson> no there open if you provide the priv
1084 2011-07-10 06:42:29 <sacarlson> the db files
1085 2011-07-10 06:42:50 <cuddlefish> Okay, what I've heard is that he's got custom RPCs
1086 2011-07-10 06:42:54 <cuddlefish> but, maybe I'm wrong
1087 2011-07-10 06:43:19 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: no this is not spesmillo it's some other code writen in python
1088 2011-07-10 06:43:35 <cuddlefish> where?
1089 2011-07-10 06:43:36 warpi has joined
1090 2011-07-10 06:43:43 <sacarlson> abe?
1091 2011-07-10 06:43:46 <cuddlefish> warpi: are you the BitPay guy?
1092 2011-07-10 06:43:52 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: Ah, the blockexplorer clone
1093 2011-07-10 06:43:54 billy_ran_away has quit (Quit: billy_ran_away)
1094 2011-07-10 06:43:54 <sacarlson> another block explorrer?
1095 2011-07-10 06:43:58 <warpi> cuddlefish, yepp
1096 2011-07-10 06:44:01 <warpi> morning :)
1097 2011-07-10 06:44:02 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: that dumps out into a Postgres DB
1098 2011-07-10 06:44:36 <sacarlson> ya and also the bitcoin tools some are in python, I'm no expert on this subject
1099 2011-07-10 06:44:38 <cuddlefish> warpi: Please. Connection lost means basically nothing, would you mind perhaps reading the error the API gives you?
1100 2011-07-10 06:44:45 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: again, just DB manipulation
1101 2011-07-10 06:44:47 <cuddlefish> no fun
1102 2011-07-10 06:45:11 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: I got ya man,  fun with a new toy
1103 2011-07-10 06:45:14 <cuddlefish> warpi: other than that, great app
1104 2011-07-10 06:45:34 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: If you see weird transactions, you'll know who it is :P
1105 2011-07-10 06:45:54 <warpi> cuddlefish, yes. we have targeted these issues for next release https://github.com/warpi/BitPay/issues?milestone=1&state=open
1106 2011-07-10 06:46:10 <warpi> cuddlefish, thx :)
1107 2011-07-10 06:46:12 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: well I'm one on the top of the list for strange transactions with escrow and manipulated settings
1108 2011-07-10 06:46:29 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: you want them or you do them
1109 2011-07-10 06:46:40 <sacarlson> I have them
1110 2011-07-10 06:46:51 <sacarlson> in my present build of multicoin
1111 2011-07-10 06:47:02 <cuddlefish> jgarzik: how do I compile bitcoind and not Bitcoin
1112 2011-07-10 06:47:46 <sacarlson> make -f makefile.unix USE_UPNP= bitcoind
1113 2011-07-10 06:47:56 wirehead has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1114 2011-07-10 06:47:56 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: that also disables upnp
1115 2011-07-10 06:48:15 <sacarlson> you might not what that part
1116 2011-07-10 06:48:20 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: I do
1117 2011-07-10 06:48:36 <sacarlson> oh and that's on unix
1118 2011-07-10 06:48:48 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: yeah, I wouldn't be hacking anywhere else :P
1119 2011-07-10 06:49:00 <sacarlson> yes I should presume
1120 2011-07-10 06:49:29 <sacarlson> but others that might be watching might thing that the only line they will ever need
1121 2011-07-10 06:50:13 <cuddlefish> Hmm, no autoconf? that's annoying
1122 2011-07-10 06:50:58 <sacarlson> funny I own a corporation with your name Cuddlefish holdings LLC in both thailand and USA
1123 2011-07-10 06:52:20 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1125 2011-07-10 06:52:33 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: wut
1126 2011-07-10 06:52:40 <cuddlefish> sacarlson: trying to pull a Pascazi?
1127 2011-07-10 06:53:01 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: just strang coinsidence
1128 2011-07-10 06:53:07 <cuddlefish> huuh.
1129 2011-07-10 06:53:08 <cuddlefish> Why?
1130 2011-07-10 06:53:31 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: why what?
1131 2011-07-10 06:53:39 <cuddlefish> why that name
1132 2011-07-10 06:53:44 <sacarlson> I just chose the name at random
1133 2011-07-10 06:53:49 <cuddlefish> oh wow
1134 2011-07-10 06:54:05 <sacarlson> easy to remember
1135 2011-07-10 06:54:49 <cuddlefish> what does it hold
1136 2011-07-10 06:55:31 <sacarlson> cuddlefish: It's an investment trust holds anything I want
1137 2011-07-10 06:55:37 <cuddlefish> ah
1138 2011-07-10 06:56:09 brunner1 has joined
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1140 2011-07-10 06:56:53 <cuddlefish> wow, rpc.cpp takes forever to compile
1141 2011-07-10 07:00:32 <cuddlefish> there we go
1142 2011-07-10 07:00:40 <cuddlefish> Okay, got it compiling
1143 2011-07-10 07:00:52 <sacarlson> anyone ready to try my new MultiCoin-qt  I think I got most the bugs out of it https://github.com/sacarlson/MultiCoin-qt
1144 2011-07-10 07:02:14 <sacarlson> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24209.0  for more details
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1148 2011-07-10 07:09:28 <cuddlefish> Okay.... trying initial compile
1149 2011-07-10 07:09:32 <cuddlefish> hooope this woorks
1150 2011-07-10 07:09:52 brunner1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1151 2011-07-10 07:12:28 <knotwork> cuddlefish it works pretty well actually, we've used it sucessfully with groupcoins
1152 2011-07-10 07:12:57 <cuddlefish> knotwork: what works
1153 2011-07-10 07:13:09 <knotwork> oh sorry thought you meant multicoin
1154 2011-07-10 07:13:49 <cuddlefish> no. I'm creating the Hacker's Toolkit
1155 2011-07-10 07:14:00 <cuddlefish> weird transactions, rejoice!
1156 2011-07-10 07:14:49 <cuddlefish> Okay, about to build the one modified file...
1157 2011-07-10 07:17:00 manifold_ has joined
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1164 2011-07-10 07:36:46 <cosurgi> luke-jr: can I sonfigure ljrbot, just for me, for example in /msg, so that it will not use TBC?
1165 2011-07-10 07:37:02 cuddlefish is now known as lukejr
1166 2011-07-10 07:37:04 <lukejr> No.
1167 2011-07-10 07:37:06 lukejr is now known as cuddlefish
1168 2011-07-10 07:37:15 <cosurgi> luke-jr: it's impossible to read
1169 2011-07-10 07:37:29 cuddlefish is now known as lukejr
1170 2011-07-10 07:37:32 <lukejr> Learn.
1171 2011-07-10 07:37:34 lukejr is now known as cuddlefish
1172 2011-07-10 07:37:40 <cosurgi> anybody knows some other channel, with similar functionality, but without TBC ?
1173 2011-07-10 07:37:43 <kinlo> it's getting confusing, who's who :p
1174 2011-07-10 07:37:48 <cuddlefish> #bitcoin-market
1175 2011-07-10 07:37:55 <cuddlefish> that only has tradees though
1176 2011-07-10 07:37:56 <cosurgi> cuddlefish isn't luke-jr for sure.
1177 2011-07-10 07:38:08 <kinlo> yeah :p
1178 2011-07-10 07:38:29 <cuddlefish> WOOOO
1179 2011-07-10 07:38:42 wirehead has joined
1180 2011-07-10 07:38:58 <cuddlefish> "import bitcoin" succeded!
1181 2011-07-10 07:39:01 <cuddlefish> now to define stuff
1182 2011-07-10 07:39:16 <cosurgi> I'm not going to upgrade squeeze to wheezy, only to have latest UTF-8 fonts that can disply tonal
1183 2011-07-10 07:39:17 <kinlo> you're working on a python interface ? :)
1184 2011-07-10 07:39:35 <senseles> Am I really the last bastard on earth still using centos? No one has downloaded my precompiled bin :(
1185 2011-07-10 07:39:39 <senseles> either they think it has a virus
1186 2011-07-10 07:39:41 <cosurgi> this TBC stuff displays incorrectly. Some YTF-8 fonts are missing
1187 2011-07-10 07:39:45 <senseles> or i'm the only one using cent :(
1188 2011-07-10 07:40:08 <cosurgi> senseles: centoin would sound better :)
1189 2011-07-10 07:40:18 <cuddlefish> kinlo: a python hacker's toolkit
1190 2011-07-10 07:41:26 <kinlo> :)
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1199 2011-07-10 08:01:59 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-gui: Stefan Thomas master * r3c17076 / (20 files in 3 dirs): Bundle Anonymous Pro font. - http://bit.ly/rmCc4j https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-gui/commit/3c17076f9560b8f0e3e18ee49271fbc08a685065
1200 2011-07-10 08:05:33 <cuddlefish> >>> import bitcoin
1201 2011-07-10 08:05:33 <cuddlefish> >>> bitcoin
1202 2011-07-10 08:05:33 <cuddlefish> <module 'bitcoin' from 'bitcoin.so'>
1203 2011-07-10 08:05:33 <cuddlefish> >>> help(bitcoin)
1204 2011-07-10 08:05:33 <cuddlefish> >>> bitcoin.test()
1205 2011-07-10 08:05:35 <cuddlefish> True
1206 2011-07-10 08:05:38 <cuddlefish> >>>
1207 2011-07-10 08:05:40 <cuddlefish> *clap*
1208 2011-07-10 08:06:53 <kinlo> :)
1209 2011-07-10 08:07:08 <kinlo> you made a tool that can ping the bitcoin daemon? :)
1210 2011-07-10 08:07:10 <cuddlefish> o
1211 2011-07-10 08:07:11 <cuddlefish> no
1212 2011-07-10 08:07:14 <cuddlefish> that's Bitcoind
1213 2011-07-10 08:07:17 <cuddlefish> build as a shared library
1214 2011-07-10 08:07:20 <cuddlefish> being imported
1215 2011-07-10 08:07:21 <kinlo> oh
1216 2011-07-10 08:07:23 <cuddlefish> and used from Python
1217 2011-07-10 08:07:25 <kinlo> ok :p
1218 2011-07-10 08:07:39 <cuddlefish> now, which function to export now
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1224 2011-07-10 08:11:55 <cuddlefish> Okay, Hacker's Toolkit, take 2, now with useful functions!
1225 2011-07-10 08:12:05 * cuddlefish glares at make
1226 2011-07-10 08:13:09 <cuddlefish> *cough*
1227 2011-07-10 08:13:11 wirehead has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1228 2011-07-10 08:13:14 <cuddlefish> there we goo
1229 2011-07-10 08:14:19 Strobe_ has joined
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1235 2011-07-10 08:22:31 <cuddlefish> Alright!!1!!
1236 2011-07-10 08:23:44 <kinlo> :)
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1250 2011-07-10 09:05:27 <sipa> luke-jr: did you have an ipv6 patch for bitcoin? how up-to-date is it?
1251 2011-07-10 09:08:31 Gonzago has joined
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1253 2011-07-10 09:11:40 <senseles> bitcoin should already work with ipv6
1254 2011-07-10 09:12:07 <senseles> at least when it binds it's binding :ffff:ipv4
1255 2011-07-10 09:12:21 <senseles> havent tried it but you should be able to toss an ipv6 ip in there
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1257 2011-07-10 09:13:18 <Dagger2> it passes IPs around in unsigned ints though, so it's not going to work properly
1258 2011-07-10 09:14:34 <cuddlefish> ... what
1259 2011-07-10 09:15:52 <sipa> the protocol supports ipv
1260 2011-07-10 09:15:54 <sipa> 6
1261 2011-07-10 09:16:32 <sipa> the implementation definetly doesn't
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1298 2011-07-10 10:45:37 <enquirer> v 0.3.24 usage report: stuck after downloading  12 blocks; restarted after adding fallback nodes form the wiki; downloaded 200 remaining blocks in 42 minutes
1299 2011-07-10 10:47:22 <jtaylor> yeah 24 seems loads blocks very slowly and sometimes it just stops
1300 2011-07-10 10:49:26 <enquirer> may be add some ftp sites for bootstrapping?
1301 2011-07-10 10:50:13 <sipa> the problem is not your version but the version of the one you are downloading from
1302 2011-07-10 10:50:35 kluge has quit (Quit: ....)
1303 2011-07-10 10:50:36 <sipa> 0.3.24 is massively better at submitting blocks
1304 2011-07-10 10:51:00 <sipa> but you won't notice until most nodes have upgraded
1305 2011-07-10 10:51:13 <BlueMatt> well you should though
1306 2011-07-10 10:51:26 <enquirer> my send tx shows 0/offline? what should i do?
1307 2011-07-10 10:51:26 <BlueMatt> my dnsseed only shows nodes of 0.3.24 (or higher?)
1308 2011-07-10 10:51:38 <enquirer> restart?
1309 2011-07-10 10:51:38 <BlueMatt> enquirer: how many connections do you have?
1310 2011-07-10 10:51:42 <enquirer> 8
1311 2011-07-10 10:51:46 <sipa> huh
1312 2011-07-10 10:51:54 <sipa> that is strange
1313 2011-07-10 10:51:56 <enquirer> behind isp nat ..
1314 2011-07-10 10:51:58 <BlueMatt> how is it offline...
1315 2011-07-10 10:52:10 TheAncientGoat has joined
1316 2011-07-10 10:52:22 <sipa> offline means no nodes have downloaded the tx from you
1317 2011-07-10 10:53:18 devon_hillard has joined
1318 2011-07-10 10:53:30 <enquirer> shows lively transmission activity in debug.log
1319 2011-07-10 10:54:00 Joric has joined
1320 2011-07-10 10:54:12 <Joric> is it a real error message? http://i.imgur.com/VbO1Q.png
1321 2011-07-10 10:54:19 <Joric> (from http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26985.0)
1322 2011-07-10 10:54:51 <sipa> no
1323 2011-07-10 10:55:24 <Joric> yeah looks like there's no such string
1324 2011-07-10 10:55:45 <enquirer> i guess my error was that i sent while blocks were still downloading
1325 2011-07-10 10:55:49 <Joric> banners are great tho
1326 2011-07-10 10:56:30 <enquirer> here! got 1/uncorfirmed after 20 minutes
1327 2011-07-10 10:56:56 <sipa> direct from offline to 1/unconfirmed?
1328 2011-07-10 10:57:10 <enquirer> yes
1329 2011-07-10 10:57:21 <Joric> enquirer, every 'confirmation' is just a new block, one block every 10 minutes
1330 2011-07-10 10:57:29 <sipa> that shouldn't happen either
1331 2011-07-10 10:57:41 tildeleb has joined
1332 2011-07-10 10:58:02 <enquirer> right after new block 135602 appeared
1333 2011-07-10 10:58:03 warpi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1334 2011-07-10 10:58:20 <sipa> ah, ok
1335 2011-07-10 10:58:24 <BlueMatt> well the offline mustve been wrong, at some point someone got that tx and all the nodes around you now knew about it...
1336 2011-07-10 10:58:34 <BlueMatt> so they didnt ask for it and your client thought offline
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1338 2011-07-10 11:00:49 <Joric> is there any real reason to show 'confirmed' after 5 blocks?
1339 2011-07-10 11:01:08 <BlueMatt> because its confirmed?
1340 2011-07-10 11:01:20 <Joric> by who?
1341 2011-07-10 11:01:29 <BlueMatt> read the bitcoin paper
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1347 2011-07-10 11:03:57 <enquirer> 2 peers at version 32100, 8 at 32300 and 1 at 32400
1348 2011-07-10 11:04:08 TheAncientGoat has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1349 2011-07-10 11:04:46 <enquirer> need a mandatory upgrade a la Chrome )
1350 2011-07-10 11:07:17 <BlueMatt> and you are running 0.3.24?
1351 2011-07-10 11:10:04 <Joric> BlueMatt, because probability drops to less than 0.001? still looks like a randomly chosen number (like 1 hour is enough)
1352 2011-07-10 11:10:27 <BlueMatt> Joric: what are you talking about?
1353 2011-07-10 11:10:37 <BlueMatt> you mean why 6 confirms?
1354 2011-07-10 11:10:41 <Joric> yes
1355 2011-07-10 11:10:51 <BlueMatt> no its not random, its exactly because the target prob was .1%
1356 2011-07-10 11:12:53 manifold has joined
1357 2011-07-10 11:13:10 <BlueMatt> if you have a better way to chose the number, please share
1358 2011-07-10 11:15:00 <pusle> for each new tx, the miner scans all the previous tx's to check for fraud?
1359 2011-07-10 11:15:08 <pusle> or I guess not all the way back to block 0
1360 2011-07-10 11:15:17 <pusle> 100 or so?
1361 2011-07-10 11:15:21 <BlueMatt> no, it scans the new tx
1362 2011-07-10 11:15:26 <BlueMatt> just the new tx
1363 2011-07-10 11:15:35 <pusle> but it gotta compare it to something
1364 2011-07-10 11:15:37 <BlueMatt> because it knows all previously accepted txes are valid
1365 2011-07-10 11:16:04 <pusle> well the ones in the recent blocks might not be
1366 2011-07-10 11:16:18 <BlueMatt> yes they are
1367 2011-07-10 11:16:22 <BlueMatt> because you checked them
1368 2011-07-10 11:16:29 <devon_hillard> is the slush pool down, btw?
1369 2011-07-10 11:16:38 <slush> yes, DDoS
1370 2011-07-10 11:16:44 <pusle> against previous ones tho right?
1371 2011-07-10 11:17:15 <pusle> looking for double spend etc
1372 2011-07-10 11:17:44 <BlueMatt> for (tx.txin) { if prevout.spent return false }
1373 2011-07-10 11:17:45 <BlueMatt> done
1374 2011-07-10 11:19:07 <pusle> but what does that one do, scans the whole block chain?
1375 2011-07-10 11:19:17 <pusle> previous 100 blocks ?
1376 2011-07-10 11:19:38 <Joric> could anyone explay carrot.org what it is all about? their software looks terrifying
1377 2011-07-10 11:20:21 <BlueMatt> gavin is the only one with alert keys, right?
1378 2011-07-10 11:20:56 <BlueMatt> Joric: its a joke
1379 2011-07-10 11:21:11 <sipa> BlueMatt: and satoshi :)
1380 2011-07-10 11:21:50 <BlueMatt> sipa: well both are about as useful right now... oh well I was just hoping we could get an alert to get people up to 0.3.24
1381 2011-07-10 11:22:31 <sipa> how is adoption of 0.3.24 ?
1382 2011-07-10 11:22:44 manifold has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1383 2011-07-10 11:22:59 <BlueMatt> not as quick as I'd hoped
1384 2011-07-10 11:23:19 <BlueMatt> only 212 that dont have their slots full afaik, with 2836 still on.23
1385 2011-07-10 11:23:30 <sipa> let's do a test
1386 2011-07-10 11:23:37 <BlueMatt> ?
1387 2011-07-10 11:23:39 <sipa> empty datadir, default command line opts
1388 2011-07-10 11:24:00 <sipa> on a firewalled node (no upnp)
1389 2011-07-10 11:24:07 <BlueMatt> Id hope that gets you mostly .24 nodes...but once you restart after that, I dont know
1390 2011-07-10 11:24:12 <sipa> how long does it take to get the chain
1391 2011-07-10 11:24:24 <BlueMatt> first run is probably .24 connections, second...probably not
1392 2011-07-10 11:25:11 <Joric> i never achieved more than 8 connections behind nat, even with upnp. only with 8333 portmapping
1393 2011-07-10 11:25:26 <sipa> no more than 8 connections == no incoming connections
1394 2011-07-10 11:25:31 <BlueMatt> well you will never get >8 if you have no incoming connections
1395 2011-07-10 11:25:45 <BlueMatt> if you have upnp on on your router, and bitcoin, you should get more though
1396 2011-07-10 11:25:55 <lfm> with upnp you should get more! is that not working right?
1397 2011-07-10 11:26:01 <Joric> upnp supposed to do the trick but it's not working for some reason
1398 2011-07-10 11:26:14 <BlueMatt> that would be a router config problem most likely
1399 2011-07-10 11:26:23 <BlueMatt> upnp is on on your router and such?
1400 2011-07-10 11:26:24 <lfm> could be your router is nfg
1401 2011-07-10 11:26:25 <Joric> no, router is fine, utorrent works fine
1402 2011-07-10 11:26:41 <Joric> upnp daemon is up and running
1403 2011-07-10 11:26:46 <BlueMatt> does utorrent show ability to get connections?
1404 2011-07-10 11:26:52 <Joric> sure
1405 2011-07-10 11:27:01 <BlueMatt> odd
1406 2011-07-10 11:27:08 <Joric> i'm talking just about it
1407 2011-07-10 11:28:03 nefario has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1408 2011-07-10 11:28:54 <Joric> i'll recheck on official 0.3.23
1409 2011-07-10 11:32:21 stalled has joined
1410 2011-07-10 11:32:48 DontMindMe has joined
1411 2011-07-10 11:33:02 <sipa> 50000 blocks
1412 2011-07-10 11:34:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: when I dont use -noirc, I get mostly non-.24 nodes
1413 2011-07-10 11:35:00 <BlueMatt> as irc nodes are still preferred to dnsseed
1414 2011-07-10 11:35:42 <sipa> meh
1415 2011-07-10 11:36:21 <BlueMatt> or...no thats wrong
1416 2011-07-10 11:36:38 <BlueMatt> irc isnt, but after you get the first addr it prefers those
1417 2011-07-10 11:36:41 <BlueMatt> sorry, my bad
1418 2011-07-10 11:36:47 <Joric> oh 24 has been released already
1419 2011-07-10 11:36:48 <BlueMatt> in any case, I get mostly 0.3.23
1420 2011-07-10 11:37:51 <BlueMatt> and often the first connection isnt from dnsseed, its from irc, which means you get no .24 nodes
1421 2011-07-10 11:41:48 <lfm> I just started .24 and I am also getting mostly .23 with a few .22 and .20
1422 2011-07-10 11:42:22 <lfm> I have incomming open with maxconnect=50
1423 2011-07-10 11:42:27 <Joric> still getting 8 connections with upnp enabled, that's all
1424 2011-07-10 11:42:45 <lfm> 36 connects now
1425 2011-07-10 11:44:06 <diki> bluematt
1426 2011-07-10 11:44:24 <diki> why after a certain amount of getworks per second bitcoin refuses connections for a while?
1427 2011-07-10 11:44:44 <diki> in cgminwe it's referred as "No buffer space"
1428 2011-07-10 11:44:52 <diki> s/cgminwe/cgminer
1429 2011-07-10 11:45:21 <lfm> diki cuz there is no buffer space probably
1430 2011-07-10 11:45:32 <BlueMatt> lfm: really .20, odd I dont see many of those, though I see some .19s, mostly 3.20.02, some .21, .22 and mostly .23
1431 2011-07-10 11:45:33 <diki> and what is buffer space?
1432 2011-07-10 11:45:46 <BlueMatt> diki: because bitcoin rpc is poorly written
1433 2011-07-10 11:45:55 <lfm> ya by .20 I meant .20.02
1434 2011-07-10 11:48:00 <lfm> diki buffer space would be a memory area
1435 2011-07-10 11:50:36 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1436 2011-07-10 11:50:47 <sipa> BlueMatt: *"o" is identical to 'o' :)
1437 2011-07-10 11:51:41 <BlueMatt> sipa: ...ok, what are you reading, that was hacked together in 5 minutes to see if I could get it to look like it works...
1438 2011-07-10 11:51:50 vigilyn has joined
1439 2011-07-10 11:51:53 <BlueMatt> unless I pushed that to the wrong branch...
1440 2011-07-10 11:51:57 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1441 2011-07-10 11:52:21 <BlueMatt> no, sipa what branch are you reading from?
1442 2011-07-10 11:52:35 <sipa> BlueMatt: upgradeenc
1443 2011-07-10 11:52:42 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
1444 2011-07-10 11:52:51 <BlueMatt> yea that was hacked for a 10 sec, make it work thing
1445 2011-07-10 11:52:57 <BlueMatt> though it doesnt work atm...
1446 2011-07-10 11:53:08 kuboosh has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1447 2011-07-10 11:55:34 maikmerten has joined
1448 2011-07-10 11:56:55 <Joric> just tried Microsoft Internet Connectivity Evaluation Tool it said upnp not supported wtf
1449 2011-07-10 11:58:37 <lfm> so its not just bitcoin
1450 2011-07-10 12:00:18 manifold_ has joined
1451 2011-07-10 12:00:34 <Joric> don't know why utorrent says ok probably uses udp punchthrough instead
1452 2011-07-10 12:00:35 <diki> how many possible combinations are there for a getwork?
1453 2011-07-10 12:01:15 <lfm> diki I heard it was 12 at one time
1454 2011-07-10 12:01:38 <diki> 12 million, billion?
1455 2011-07-10 12:01:45 <Joric> strange i'm having /bin/mini_upnpd -wsc /tmp/wscd_config -igd /tmp/igd_config & and /bin/miniupnpd -i ppp0 -a 10.1.1.1 -p 49152 on the router
1456 2011-07-10 12:01:52 <lfm> no 12 at once for one bitcoind
1457 2011-07-10 12:02:04 <diki> you probably misunderstood
1458 2011-07-10 12:02:07 <sipa> waaah
1459 2011-07-10 12:02:15 <sipa> i get tons of orphan blocks
1460 2011-07-10 12:02:34 <diki> how many possible getworks till you run out of work for the current block and start doing duplicate works
1461 2011-07-10 12:02:36 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
1462 2011-07-10 12:02:39 <gribble> 135606
1463 2011-07-10 12:02:55 <BlueMatt> Joric: -i ppp0 sounds wrong there
1464 2011-07-10 12:03:11 <lfm> diki I think its like 12 per 10 second period or so
1465 2011-07-10 12:03:40 <lfm> diki it is not a lot
1466 2011-07-10 12:05:37 <sipa> one block the client missed, it seems
1467 2011-07-10 12:06:03 <lfm> sipa I should eventually get it and link up the orphans
1468 2011-07-10 12:06:23 <sipa> after restarting it did so immediately
1469 2011-07-10 12:06:23 <lfm> it
1470 2011-07-10 12:06:30 <diki> what's your speed sipa
1471 2011-07-10 12:06:30 <lfm> ah cool
1472 2011-07-10 12:06:46 <sipa> speed of what, diki?
1473 2011-07-10 12:07:01 <diki> if you get tons of orpahned blocks, it means you are mining
1474 2011-07-10 12:07:07 <diki> thus, the speed of the miners
1475 2011-07-10 12:07:22 ratface has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1476 2011-07-10 12:07:26 TheAncientGoat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1477 2011-07-10 12:07:31 <lfm> different kind of orphans I think
1478 2011-07-10 12:07:37 denisx has joined
1479 2011-07-10 12:07:37 <sipa> that would be stale blocks
1480 2011-07-10 12:07:48 <sipa> it's quite comparable, actually
1481 2011-07-10 12:07:58 <sipa> but this is just a new client downloading blocks, and having missed one
1482 2011-07-10 12:08:18 <sipa> so it receives a ton of blocks, while missing a parent block
1483 2011-07-10 12:08:23 tildeleb has quit (Quit: tildeleb)
1484 2011-07-10 12:09:06 Joric has quit ()
1485 2011-07-10 12:09:21 BlueMattBot has joined
1486 2011-07-10 12:11:22 <diki> how does it miss a block?
1487 2011-07-10 12:11:27 <diki> i thought it's a chain
1488 2011-07-10 12:12:25 <cuddlefish> that's why it's orphaned
1489 2011-07-10 12:12:30 TheAncientGoat has joined
1490 2011-07-10 12:12:46 <lfm> communication error?
1491 2011-07-10 12:13:23 <sipa> it is in the chain, but there was a problem while downloading the chain, it seems
1492 2011-07-10 12:16:51 erus` has joined
1493 2011-07-10 12:17:23 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1494 2011-07-10 12:25:51 redshark1802 has joined
1495 2011-07-10 12:26:20 <redshark1802> Hello, I'll give 50$ if someone can resolve this issue  http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=27045.0
1496 2011-07-10 12:26:25 manifold_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1497 2011-07-10 12:27:41 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1498 2011-07-10 12:27:44 joepie91 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1499 2011-07-10 12:27:46 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135607 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 1480 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 2 hours, 8 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1594658.70309186
1500 2011-07-10 12:30:57 <diki> redshark1802:bounty is in BTC
1501 2011-07-10 12:30:59 joepie91 has joined
1502 2011-07-10 12:30:59 <diki> not USD
1503 2011-07-10 12:31:35 <redshark1802> it's in USD
1504 2011-07-10 12:31:42 rynx has joined
1505 2011-07-10 12:31:51 <redshark1802> or may be i could buy some BTC
1506 2011-07-10 12:32:14 <diki> and no one will trust you with paypal
1507 2011-07-10 12:32:21 <diki> so bitcoin is the ONLY choice you got
1508 2011-07-10 12:32:32 <redshark1802> okay, i'll buy some
1509 2011-07-10 12:35:59 <WakiMiko_> does anyone else except satoshi have the private keys for alert msgs?
1510 2011-07-10 12:36:06 nefario has joined
1511 2011-07-10 12:36:09 TheZimm has joined
1512 2011-07-10 12:36:49 <denisx> redshark1802: which miner do you use?
1513 2011-07-10 12:36:57 <redshark1802> phoenix 1.5
1514 2011-07-10 12:37:10 <denisx> redshark1802: windows?
1515 2011-07-10 12:37:22 <redshark1802> linux (ubuntu)
1516 2011-07-10 12:37:33 <denisx> redshark1802: then update it
1517 2011-07-10 12:37:56 roconnor has joined
1518 2011-07-10 12:38:06 <denisx> "sudo svn up" if you use linuxcoin
1519 2011-07-10 12:38:13 <redshark1802> ubuntu or phoenix?
1520 2011-07-10 12:38:18 <denisx> phoenix
1521 2011-07-10 12:38:50 <roconnor> copumpkin: here is a recent heap profile of a test run: http://i.imgur.com/IaDPJ.png
1522 2011-07-10 12:39:03 <redshark1802> both are up to date
1523 2011-07-10 12:39:29 <redshark1802> and i'm not using linuxcoin
1524 2011-07-10 12:40:58 <denisx> redshark1802: ok, then what revision is phoenix then?
1525 2011-07-10 12:41:26 <sipa> WakiMiko_: gavin does have the alert key
1526 2011-07-10 12:41:37 <redshark1802> it's the 1.50 from the official thread
1527 2011-07-10 12:41:47 <redshark1802> i download the svn tree
1528 2011-07-10 12:42:10 samr7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1529 2011-07-10 12:43:09 <denisx> redshark1802: then tell me the revision ;)
1530 2011-07-10 12:43:19 samr7 has joined
1531 2011-07-10 12:45:33 <sipa> BlueMatt: any idea how i can easily rebase cbitcoinaddress against your new newenc?
1532 2011-07-10 12:45:42 <sipa> using rebase -i gives massive amounts of conflicts
1533 2011-07-10 12:46:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: cbitcoinaddress?
1534 2011-07-10 12:47:07 cuddlefish has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1535 2011-07-10 12:47:28 <redshark1802> i have now r101
1536 2011-07-10 12:47:38 <denisx> redshark1802: ok, still too old
1537 2011-07-10 12:47:51 <denisx> upgrade to 108
1538 2011-07-10 12:47:55 <sipa> BlueMatt: the patch to remove mapPubKeys
1539 2011-07-10 12:48:03 <sipa> it was based on newenc
1540 2011-07-10 12:48:14 <BlueMatt> what did I change that changed that?
1541 2011-07-10 12:48:22 <sipa> not much, probably
1542 2011-07-10 12:48:27 <sipa> but git is confused
1543 2011-07-10 12:48:29 <BlueMatt> sees like all Ive ever done is just rebase onto master...
1544 2011-07-10 12:48:57 <BlueMatt> maybe I refactored a name...
1545 2011-07-10 12:48:58 <redshark1802> thats weird it's the current version from svn
1546 2011-07-10 12:49:06 <redshark1802> where can i download 108?
1547 2011-07-10 12:49:09 <sipa> svn is obsolete
1548 2011-07-10 12:49:16 <sipa> it's not updated anymore, i believe
1549 2011-07-10 12:49:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: well then the only option is probably grep for ===== and look for what confused it
1550 2011-07-10 12:49:22 <denisx> sipa: lolz
1551 2011-07-10 12:49:50 <denisx> sipa: 2011-06-23 — Apache Subversion 1.7.0-alpha2 Released
1552 2011-07-10 12:49:52 <sipa> oh, or you talking about phoenix?
1553 2011-07-10 12:49:59 <redshark1802> yep ;)
1554 2011-07-10 12:50:06 <sipa> denisx: no no, i mean, bitcoin's svn is obsolete
1555 2011-07-10 12:50:20 <denisx> sipa: ah, ok ;)
1556 2011-07-10 12:50:30 <denisx> redshark1802: then try this r101 first
1557 2011-07-10 12:50:41 <redshark1802> i'm on it
1558 2011-07-10 12:50:49 <denisx> redshark1802: still unknown-work?
1559 2011-07-10 12:50:54 <redshark1802> not yet
1560 2011-07-10 12:51:24 <sipa> BlueMatt: i get conflicts for every single change you made in newenc
1561 2011-07-10 12:51:38 <redshark1802> i'm away for a moment, i'll report the results when i'm back
1562 2011-07-10 12:51:48 <BlueMatt> sipa: huh...that seems completely wrong...do you have this old one up somewhere?
1563 2011-07-10 12:52:16 <sipa> on github, newenc+cbitcoinaddres branch
1564 2011-07-10 12:54:04 suriv has joined
1565 2011-07-10 12:54:36 <BlueMatt> sipa: when you rebase, make sure you cut out the lines that are already in newenc, git thinks you did the commit because its a different commitid because some minor change or two was made, so you are trying to apply newenc twice
1566 2011-07-10 12:54:53 <BlueMatt> for me, I get two errors, both of which look very minor
1567 2011-07-10 12:55:55 <sipa> which commands did you use exactly?
1568 2011-07-10 12:56:05 <sipa> shouldn't matter who does them
1569 2011-07-10 12:56:14 <BlueMatt> git rebase -i newenc, then remove I think there were two commits
1570 2011-07-10 12:56:21 Gonzago has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1571 2011-07-10 12:56:22 <BlueMatt> when git opens up your editor
1572 2011-07-10 12:57:26 <diki> does a user's wallet address have anything to do with generating work?
1573 2011-07-10 12:58:27 <doublec> why do you ask?
1574 2011-07-10 12:58:37 <diki> for information?
1575 2011-07-10 12:58:43 <doublec> it's just an odd question
1576 2011-07-10 12:58:54 <doublec> like, what a "user's wallet address"
1577 2011-07-10 12:58:59 <doublec> there are lots of addresses in a wallet
1578 2011-07-10 12:59:14 <doublec> do you mean does any given address in a wallet, affect in some way work obtained from getwork?
1579 2011-07-10 12:59:21 <diki> yes
1580 2011-07-10 12:59:24 <doublec> no
1581 2011-07-10 13:00:54 <doublec> (in answer to your question)
1582 2011-07-10 13:01:09 <diki> erm, yeah i got that\
1583 2011-07-10 13:03:01 <redshark1802> denisx: i get still unknown-work
1584 2011-07-10 13:03:17 <diki> from who's miner?
1585 2011-07-10 13:03:33 <redshark1802> from phoenix-miner
1586 2011-07-10 13:03:38 <redshark1802> my
1587 2011-07-10 13:03:42 <diki> i said who's, not from which
1588 2011-07-10 13:03:51 <diki> yours, your 1500 mhash friend
1589 2011-07-10 13:04:08 <redshark1802> my miner, sorry
1590 2011-07-10 13:04:12 <doublec> redshark1802: does the same thing happen from any other miner?
1591 2011-07-10 13:04:13 <luke-jr> cosurgi: if your IRC client is broken, that's your problem. font issues just mean you'll have boxes instead of high-bit digits, which is not a problem if you're ignoring it anyway
1592 2011-07-10 13:04:18 <doublec> redshark1802: or is it just phoenix?
1593 2011-07-10 13:04:25 <luke-jr> sipa: it wasn't complete
1594 2011-07-10 13:04:28 <diki> luke, talking to yourself?
1595 2011-07-10 13:05:12 <redshark1802> i'll check that. but it shouldn't be a problem if the miner works on other pools or is it?
1596 2011-07-10 13:05:37 <diki> redshark, give me your pool's url and i'll point my miner there
1597 2011-07-10 13:05:43 <diki> to see if i've got the same problem
1598 2011-07-10 13:05:56 <redshark1802> it's a closed pool, sorry
1599 2011-07-10 13:06:03 <redshark1802> but thanks
1600 2011-07-10 13:06:11 <diki> doesnt matter if it's closed, there's always an ip
1601 2011-07-10 13:06:14 <diki> and a test account
1602 2011-07-10 13:06:46 <sipa> luke-jr: ok
1603 2011-07-10 13:09:58 <sipa> BlueMatt: thanks, that was it
1604 2011-07-10 13:09:58 nocreativenick1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1605 2011-07-10 13:10:06 <sipa> didn't realize it was reapplyingh
1606 2011-07-10 13:10:16 nocreativenick1 has joined
1607 2011-07-10 13:10:27 <BlueMatt> sipa: yea, git gets really dumb anytime you squash commits or push -f
1608 2011-07-10 13:11:24 * sipa wonders if we can get ipv6 support for 0.4.0
1609 2011-07-10 13:11:44 <BlueMatt> afaik the only ipv6 branch is really, really incomplete
1610 2011-07-10 13:11:53 <sipa> it can't be too hard
1611 2011-07-10 13:12:08 <BlueMatt> shouldnt be
1612 2011-07-10 13:12:20 <BlueMatt> I havent looked at it since I fist started with bitcoin, so I have no real guess
1613 2011-07-10 13:12:38 <sipa> listen/connect logic needs to support it, dns lookup code, outputting of addresses
1614 2011-07-10 13:12:42 <sipa> anything else?
1615 2011-07-10 13:12:47 <sipa> luke-jr probably knows best how much work it is
1616 2011-07-10 13:12:52 <BlueMatt> not afaik
1617 2011-07-10 13:14:42 <redshark1802> brb
1618 2011-07-10 13:15:04 redshark1802 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1619 2011-07-10 13:17:26 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1620 2011-07-10 13:18:44 spq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1621 2011-07-10 13:18:49 vigilyn has joined
1622 2011-07-10 13:20:09 zapnap has joined
1623 2011-07-10 13:29:51 <luke-jr> sipa: IIRC there were lots of IPv4 assumptions hard-coded all over
1624 2011-07-10 13:29:59 <luke-jr> sipa: using the address as basically a random seed
1625 2011-07-10 13:30:59 TD has joined
1626 2011-07-10 13:31:45 <Happy0> does anyone have a testnet address i can send my 0.11 coins to... then could you kindly send them back? :P
1627 2011-07-10 13:32:24 <sipa> luke-jr: you mean the IsRoutable()-like tests in some places?
1628 2011-07-10 13:32:52 <luke-jr> sipa: no, I mean it uses arbitrary bytes from the address as part of an algorithm
1629 2011-07-10 13:32:58 <sipa> hmm, ok
1630 2011-07-10 13:33:14 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1631 2011-07-10 13:33:20 <luke-jr> sipa: also, the CAddress class was kinda messed up
1632 2011-07-10 13:33:30 <luke-jr> so it's properly abstracted in the IPv6 branch
1633 2011-07-10 13:33:36 <luke-jr> that part is done, I think
1634 2011-07-10 13:33:53 <sipa> there were lots of places where its internal representation was used still
1635 2011-07-10 13:35:03 <luke-jr> IIRC, last I touched it, the IPv6 branch was working correctly on IPv4 ;)
1636 2011-07-10 13:35:15 <Happy0> okay.jpg :(
1637 2011-07-10 13:35:19 <TD> luke-jr: you're developing native ipv6 support?
1638 2011-07-10 13:35:26 <luke-jr> TD: was
1639 2011-07-10 13:35:28 <sipa> he was, some time ago
1640 2011-07-10 13:35:31 <TD> oh
1641 2011-07-10 13:35:34 <TD> why stop/
1642 2011-07-10 13:35:40 <sipa> and i think it's time ipv6 goes into mainline
1643 2011-07-10 13:35:47 <luke-jr> TD: it wasn't furthering my goals, and taking up a lot of time
1644 2011-07-10 13:35:50 <BlueMatt> might help listening a bit
1645 2011-07-10 13:35:54 <TD> ok
1646 2011-07-10 13:36:00 <TD> fair enough
1647 2011-07-10 13:36:04 <Dagger2> luke-jr, your public code (https://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/bitcoin/luke-jr-bitcoin/commits/IPv6) doesn't compile though, due to a merge conflict in net.h
1648 2011-07-10 13:36:06 <luke-jr> I mean, it'd be nice to have IPv6, but it's not something I can personally justify the time to do
1649 2011-07-10 13:36:10 <TD> i have native ipv6 connectivity at work. i keep meaning to use that as a testbed
1650 2011-07-10 13:36:18 <luke-jr> Dagger2: I know.
1651 2011-07-10 13:36:20 <TD> but i suspect it could be a source of annoying bugs, similar to the flood controls
1652 2011-07-10 13:36:30 prax has joined
1653 2011-07-10 13:36:31 prax has quit (Changing host)
1654 2011-07-10 13:36:31 prax has joined
1655 2011-07-10 13:36:37 <sipa> TD: meh, i have sixxs and teredo tunnels, and my vps has ipv6 native
1656 2011-07-10 13:36:52 <luke-jr> "native" doesn't matter much :P
1657 2011-07-10 13:36:55 <sipa> indeed
1658 2011-07-10 13:36:55 <TD> well, right
1659 2011-07-10 13:36:57 <Dagger2> well, then it doesn't work on ipv4 either, at least for any of the rest of us :P
1660 2011-07-10 13:36:58 <sipa> the problem is probably not actually making ipv6 work
1661 2011-07-10 13:36:58 <BlueMatt> he tunnels ftw
1662 2011-07-10 13:37:02 <TD> but it sure is convenient :-)
1663 2011-07-10 13:37:02 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: except you get more mtu
1664 2011-07-10 13:37:16 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: which isn't too important IMO
1665 2011-07-10 13:37:31 <sipa> but finding the correct heuristics, like eg. the current no connects within the same /16
1666 2011-07-10 13:37:45 WombatFarmer has joined
1667 2011-07-10 13:37:55 <luke-jr> sipa: yeah, you'll want to treat 6to4 addresses as IPv4
1668 2011-07-10 13:37:57 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: not particularly, but depending on the method for ipv6 address allocation on the nat, some oses are too stupid to auto-figure out the proper mtu making all kinda of problems
1669 2011-07-10 13:38:00 <sipa> luke-jr: indeed
1670 2011-07-10 13:38:08 <sipa> also, should you relay ipv6 addresses to non-ipv6 capable hosts?
1671 2011-07-10 13:38:10 <luke-jr> sipa: and probably something with the last 32 bits too
1672 2011-07-10 13:38:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes
1673 2011-07-10 13:38:21 <sipa> maybe we need a services bit to indicate ipv6-readyness
1674 2011-07-10 13:38:23 nus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1675 2011-07-10 13:38:36 <BlueMatt> sipa: no, old nodes will ignore them as they should, but they should be relayed
1676 2011-07-10 13:38:45 <sipa> true, that's probably best
1677 2011-07-10 13:39:24 <luke-jr> inevitably, anti-sybil measures will do some retarded stuff, but I'm not sure that's a real problem
1678 2011-07-10 13:39:47 <sipa> i'm not sure about the exact relaying semantics right now - maybe relaying addresses that cannot be verified to be accepting poses some problem
1679 2011-07-10 13:39:48 <luke-jr> ie, assume a MAC address portion is close to an IPv4 NAT64 address
1680 2011-07-10 13:39:50 <sipa> s
1681 2011-07-10 13:40:14 slux has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1682 2011-07-10 13:40:25 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1683 2011-07-10 13:40:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: you are right, they shouldnt be relayed, but currently they are, so thats a separate issue
1684 2011-07-10 13:40:37 <luke-jr> alternatively, someone could write code so Bitcoin sets up a private Teredo in the case that it can't use IPv6 ;)
1685 2011-07-10 13:40:54 <sipa> haha
1686 2011-07-10 13:41:00 <sipa> fuck nat!
1687 2011-07-10 13:41:04 Glasswlkr has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1688 2011-07-10 13:41:12 <BlueMatt> oh god...
1689 2011-07-10 13:41:23 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: Windows 7 already does it
1690 2011-07-10 13:41:25 <Dagger2> yeah, we went over this. please don't implement teredo in bitcoin, that really should be done at the OS level >.>
1691 2011-07-10 13:41:39 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: difference between doing teredo in client and in os...
1692 2011-07-10 13:41:42 <luke-jr> :P
1693 2011-07-10 13:41:51 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: sure, but UPnP should have been in the OS too
1694 2011-07-10 13:41:54 <BlueMatt> lets put a full ip stack in bitcoin...
1695 2011-07-10 13:41:56 <sipa> Dagger2: of course
1696 2011-07-10 13:42:01 <sipa> we were joking
1697 2011-07-10 13:42:28 <BlueMatt> ooo, we should do BitcoinOS, its like chrome os, but the entire thing is one big binary blob, incl network stack, kernel, etc, etc
1698 2011-07-10 13:44:17 nefario has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1699 2011-07-10 13:44:29 <Dagger2> sipa: I'm just making sure. there seemed to be a bit of confusion last time :P
1700 2011-07-10 13:45:50 <sipa> another issue: maybe you should try to detect ipv6 tunnels (teredo, ...), and give native ipv4/ipv6 priority over those, when downloading the block chain
1701 2011-07-10 13:46:07 <BlueMatt> no, let the os do that
1702 2011-07-10 13:46:12 <sipa> ?
1703 2011-07-10 13:46:17 <BlueMatt> if the os' default ipv6 route is through teredo, let it be
1704 2011-07-10 13:46:23 <BlueMatt> even if you have native
1705 2011-07-10 13:46:27 <BlueMatt> thats not our problem
1706 2011-07-10 13:46:31 <sipa> not what i mean
1707 2011-07-10 13:46:40 <sipa> if a host has ipv4 and teredo ipv6
1708 2011-07-10 13:46:46 <BlueMatt> you mean give ipv4 over teredo
1709 2011-07-10 13:46:51 <sipa> and it sees ipv4 and ipv6 caddresses
1710 2011-07-10 13:46:55 <BlueMatt> na, still too much effort...
1711 2011-07-10 13:47:01 <Happy0> does anyone have a testnet address i can send my 0.11 coins to... then could you kindly send them back? :P
1712 2011-07-10 13:47:03 <sipa> it should not use an ipv6 one to download the chain from
1713 2011-07-10 13:47:04 <BlueMatt> CAddress can hold two addresses?
1714 2011-07-10 13:47:07 <sipa> no
1715 2011-07-10 13:47:10 <BlueMatt> ok
1716 2011-07-10 13:47:14 <BlueMatt> so Id say leave it
1717 2011-07-10 13:47:15 <sipa> but you can see ipv4 ones and ipv6 ones
1718 2011-07-10 13:47:17 <BlueMatt> teredo isnt that slow
1719 2011-07-10 13:47:19 <Dagger2> getaddrinfo() does that sorting (see RFC3484)... but that's only for DNS resolution
1720 2011-07-10 13:47:44 <sipa> Happy0: sorry, no full testnet node here
1721 2011-07-10 13:47:53 <Happy0> sipa: thanks for replying anyway =]
1722 2011-07-10 13:48:08 <Happy0> sipa: can you send from one of your own addresses to another of your own addresses? :P
1723 2011-07-10 13:48:10 <Dagger2> can you tell that a particular pair of ipv4/6 addresses even belong to the same node?
1724 2011-07-10 13:48:17 <Happy0> using 'sendfrom'
1725 2011-07-10 13:48:45 <sipa> Happy0: sendfrom does not in any way determine which coins are used
1726 2011-07-10 13:48:55 <sipa> Happy0: it's the largest misconception about accounts
1727 2011-07-10 13:49:03 <Happy0> haha yeah, i get that... =p
1728 2011-07-10 13:49:05 <Dagger2> unless there's some way to match them up, they'd look like two different nodes
1729 2011-07-10 13:49:13 <Happy0> but is it still possible?
1730 2011-07-10 13:49:19 <sipa> Happy0: and yes, you can do a transaction to an address of yourself
1731 2011-07-10 13:49:24 <Happy0> just for the sake of knowing if my 'sendfrom' function works =p
1732 2011-07-10 13:49:28 <Happy0> great, thanks sipa =]
1733 2011-07-10 13:49:30 <Dagger2> (this is a question I could probably answer myself if I knew /anything at all/ about the bitcoin protocol...)
1734 2011-07-10 13:50:00 phungus has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
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1737 2011-07-10 13:53:08 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1738 2011-07-10 13:55:04 <Happy0> *waits patiently on testnet faucet coins arriving in his wallet* :P
1739 2011-07-10 13:55:32 TheAncientGoat has joined
1740 2011-07-10 13:57:41 again has joined
1741 2011-07-10 13:58:27 <TD> it would be good if bitcoin always had a local RPC port open
1742 2011-07-10 13:58:34 <TD> that listened only on the loopback address
1743 2011-07-10 13:58:51 slux has joined
1744 2011-07-10 13:58:56 <TD> there is a browser extension that adds a "send bitcoins" button next to addresses. but it needs a third party tool and you need to reconfigure bitcoin
1745 2011-07-10 13:59:32 <luke-jr> TD: it could just use a bitcoin: URI
1746 2011-07-10 13:59:38 <Dagger2> then anybody on the same machine could connect to your bitcoind and spend your coins... that seems like a bad plan
1747 2011-07-10 13:59:46 <TD> only for shared user machines
1748 2011-07-10 13:59:51 <TD> which is not at all the majority
1749 2011-07-10 13:59:57 <TD> it could be on for windows/macos x by default
1750 2011-07-10 14:00:12 <TD> but i was really thinking of non-TCP sockets anyway
1751 2011-07-10 14:00:17 <TD> they wouldn't have that problem
1752 2011-07-10 14:00:38 <luke-jr> TD: Spesmilo supports bitcoin: URIs, and I wrote a patch to add it to wxBitcoin
1753 2011-07-10 14:01:11 <TD> yeah, that solves the case of triggering from a browser. it'd be useful to let other apps do the same thing.
1754 2011-07-10 14:01:18 redshark1802 has joined
1755 2011-07-10 14:01:22 <luke-jr> any app can trigger a URI handler
1756 2011-07-10 14:01:42 <TD> yeah, but the rpc interface can do more than a uri handler can
1757 2011-07-10 14:01:45 <TD> you can get responses back, for instance
1758 2011-07-10 14:01:48 <luke-jr> true
1759 2011-07-10 14:01:53 <redshark1802> denisx: hello denis, i'm now testing with diablominer, so far no stales.
1760 2011-07-10 14:01:58 <luke-jr> but that's a potential security concern, even on single-user systems
1761 2011-07-10 14:02:20 <luke-jr> anyhow, heading to church, bbl
1762 2011-07-10 14:03:03 <redshark1802> denisx: but the speed is mucher lower, on one card i get about 50mh/s with phoenix, with diablo only 30mh/s i have to tweak it a bit. but where is the difference between them?
1763 2011-07-10 14:05:52 <denisx> redshark1802: the opencl kernel
1764 2011-07-10 14:06:04 <denisx> try poclbm
1765 2011-07-10 14:06:12 <redshark1802> okay
1766 2011-07-10 14:09:22 <Happy0> anyone know how long transactions tend to take on the testnet? :P
1767 2011-07-10 14:10:24 <TD> varies
1768 2011-07-10 14:10:24 <sipa> if nobody is mining: forever
1769 2011-07-10 14:10:26 <TD> it's not super reliable
1770 2011-07-10 14:10:34 <Happy0> argh =p
1771 2011-07-10 14:10:55 <Happy0> sipa: can you mine with a CPU on the testnet? should i generate my own? :S
1772 2011-07-10 14:11:00 <Happy0> and if so, how long would that take? :P
1773 2011-07-10 14:12:17 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: sipa tcatm jgarzik et al. simple make old clients crash on load of encrypted wallets commit: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/86c012bf748f7cf701fd61118a45d9d477e44011
1774 2011-07-10 14:12:30 <BlueMatt> now Im happy with newenc
1775 2011-07-10 14:12:51 <manveru> Happy0: you can, it's pretty fast
1776 2011-07-10 14:13:10 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1777 2011-07-10 14:13:13 <manveru> nobody wastes ressources there, so difficulty is close to 1
1778 2011-07-10 14:13:29 <Happy0>     "difficulty" : 502.92155041,
1779 2011-07-10 14:13:31 molecular has joined
1780 2011-07-10 14:13:32 <Happy0> it says
1781 2011-07-10 14:13:34 <manveru> huh
1782 2011-07-10 14:13:51 <manveru> still feasable for cpu
1783 2011-07-10 14:14:01 <Happy0> do i just do
1784 2011-07-10 14:14:02 <sipa> BlueMatt: what was this addrincoming?
1785 2011-07-10 14:14:04 <manveru> i was thinking of the namecoin testnet
1786 2011-07-10 14:14:14 <Happy0> ./bitcoind setgenerate 1 ?
1787 2011-07-10 14:14:17 <BlueMatt> sipa: nfc, its not referenced anywhere in the code aside from definitions
1788 2011-07-10 14:14:19 Titeuf_87 has joined
1789 2011-07-10 14:14:27 <manveru> Happy0: yeah
1790 2011-07-10 14:14:30 <sipa> BlueMatt: also, no p in front of the variable name - it's not a pointer
1791 2011-07-10 14:14:38 <Happy0> manveru: any idea how long it's likely to take? :o
1792 2011-07-10 14:14:40 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh sorry, my bad
1793 2011-07-10 14:14:44 <sipa> </pedantry>
1794 2011-07-10 14:14:55 <sipa> but i like it
1795 2011-07-10 14:15:12 <manveru> Happy0: what's your cpu?
1796 2011-07-10 14:15:20 <sipa> i think crashing sooner is better than people unknowingly creating a new unencrypted wallet
1797 2011-07-10 14:15:23 <Happy0> manveru: i don't actually know, i'm running this on a VPS :|
1798 2011-07-10 14:15:23 <TD> Happy0: there is a testnet in a box
1799 2011-07-10 14:15:31 <TD> Happy0: you can run your own testnet locally and mine pretty fast
1800 2011-07-10 14:15:33 <TD> (with a cpu)
1801 2011-07-10 14:15:34 <BlueMatt> sipa: I totally agree
1802 2011-07-10 14:15:46 <Happy0> TD: that's probably a good shout... thanks :)
1803 2011-07-10 14:15:50 <Happy0> i think i saw that somewhere
1804 2011-07-10 14:16:11 <manveru> yeah, your own genesis block
1805 2011-07-10 14:16:19 <TD> it uses the same genesis block actually
1806 2011-07-10 14:16:31 <TD> it just runs two nodes and doesn't let them connect to the public nodes
1807 2011-07-10 14:16:32 <manveru> oO
1808 2011-07-10 14:16:36 <TD> it comes with a README
1809 2011-07-10 14:16:38 <manveru> heh
1810 2011-07-10 14:16:38 rynx has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1811 2011-07-10 14:16:56 <manveru> damn, 500 difficulty takes 10 days with 2400kh/s
1812 2011-07-10 14:17:15 <TD> yeah the public testnet needs more code in the main client.
1813 2011-07-10 14:17:17 <Happy0> TD: great, i'll look into it =p
1814 2011-07-10 14:17:20 <TD> it was already reset once when somebody dumped GPUs into it
1815 2011-07-10 14:17:25 <TD> then the same thing happened
1816 2011-07-10 14:17:33 <TD> very clearly testnet users cannot be relied on to not screw the commons
1817 2011-07-10 14:17:37 <TD> so there needs to be a difficulty cap
1818 2011-07-10 14:18:11 <Happy0> http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/ - this is what i'm looking for, yeah?
1819 2011-07-10 14:18:15 <manveru> well, a faster difficulty adjustment would be enough, i think?
1820 2011-07-10 14:18:36 <TD> Happy0: yeah
1821 2011-07-10 14:18:40 <TD> manveru: better to just cap it
1822 2011-07-10 14:18:40 <manveru> say, every 100 blocks or so
1823 2011-07-10 14:18:52 <TD> testnet difficulty should just always be 1
1824 2011-07-10 14:18:53 <manveru> also nicer to test those transitions
1825 2011-07-10 14:19:33 <manveru> how do you test non-1 difficulty if it's at 1 all the time?
1826 2011-07-10 14:19:46 <TD> the testnet isn't actually meant for testing code changes
1827 2011-07-10 14:19:51 <manveru> but yeah, there should probably more than one
1828 2011-07-10 14:19:52 <TD> that's what unit tests are for
1829 2011-07-10 14:19:53 E-sense has joined
1830 2011-07-10 14:20:05 <manveru> *be
1831 2011-07-10 14:20:45 <Happy0> TD: woops =p
1832 2011-07-10 14:22:59 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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1834 2011-07-10 14:24:21 <BlueMatt> ;;seen jrmithdobbs
1835 2011-07-10 14:24:22 <gribble> jrmithdobbs was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 14 hours, 49 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <jrmithdobbs> sipa: wait no, i'm not talking about this after this much beer, nm, catch me tomorrow or somehitg
1836 2011-07-10 14:24:33 <Happy0> argh why is there no bitcoin executable in this testnet in a box zip :S
1837 2011-07-10 14:25:05 <sipa> Happy0: because you're supposed to use your own
1838 2011-07-10 14:25:12 <sipa> ;;bc,stats
1839 2011-07-10 14:25:14 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135617 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 1470 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 0 hours, 55 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1592130.17815433
1840 2011-07-10 14:25:47 somuchwin2 has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1841 2011-07-10 14:25:49 <TD> Happy0: read the readme
1842 2011-07-10 14:25:56 <TD> Happy0: it explains how to use your current one with it
1843 2011-07-10 14:26:23 <Happy0> no it doesnt, TD =p
1844 2011-07-10 14:26:35 <Happy0> but okay, that's what i'll do :|
1845 2011-07-10 14:26:48 <TD> what is lacking?
1846 2011-07-10 14:26:52 * TD built the testnet-in-a-box
1847 2011-07-10 14:26:58 <TD> so i'd like to improve it, if elements are confusing :)
1848 2011-07-10 14:27:10 <diki> after a few thousand getworks, it takes a few seconds for a miner to request new work
1849 2011-07-10 14:27:16 <diki> restarting bitcoin fixes it
1850 2011-07-10 14:27:17 <Happy0> TD: good work :)
1851 2011-07-10 14:27:24 <Happy0> TD: there's no description about using your own bitcoin exe
1852 2011-07-10 14:27:28 <TD> yes there is
1853 2011-07-10 14:27:43 <Happy0> TD: on what line number?
1854 2011-07-10 14:27:57 <TD> Use it as follows:
1855 2011-07-10 14:27:57 <TD>   $ cd ~/testnet-box
1856 2011-07-10 14:27:57 <TD>   $ bitcoin -datadir=1 -daemon
1857 2011-07-10 14:27:58 <TD>   $ bitcoin -datadir=2 -daemon
1858 2011-07-10 14:28:03 <TD> the instructions use UNIX notation
1859 2011-07-10 14:28:06 <Happy0> okay, but there's no mention about
1860 2011-07-10 14:28:11 <TD> but it should still be clear
1861 2011-07-10 14:28:11 <Happy0> copying your own bitcoin exe
1862 2011-07-10 14:28:15 <Happy0> to the directory in order to do that
1863 2011-07-10 14:28:16 <TD> you don't have to copy any EXEs
1864 2011-07-10 14:28:17 <Happy0> that makes me think
1865 2011-07-10 14:28:22 <Happy0> that there's already a bitcoin exe in there
1866 2011-07-10 14:28:24 <TD> just run it with thos command line switches, from the testnet directory
1867 2011-07-10 14:28:43 <Happy0> TD: now you're confusing me...
1868 2011-07-10 14:28:49 <TD> no, you haven't understood what the testnet-in-a-box is. it's two bitcoin data directories which contain configuration files and block chains set up to give you a private network
1869 2011-07-10 14:28:51 <Happy0> i've CD'd into the testnet-box directory
1870 2011-07-10 14:29:01 <TD> yes
1871 2011-07-10 14:29:06 <TD> so you'd do something like
1872 2011-07-10 14:29:10 <Happy0> right, so i've to copy those directories where my original bitcoin exe is?
1873 2011-07-10 14:29:19 <sipa> Happy0: you don't copy anything
1874 2011-07-10 14:29:22 <TD> "c:\program files\bitcoin\bitcoin.exe" -datadir=1 -daemon
1875 2011-07-10 14:29:30 <TD> then again for the second one. i assume something like that would work
1876 2011-07-10 14:29:31 <sipa> you just use the testnet-in-a-box directories as datadirs for bitcoin
1877 2011-07-10 14:29:38 <TD> the box was developed on mac/linux
1878 2011-07-10 14:29:44 <TD> but you should be able to figure this out
1879 2011-07-10 14:29:59 <Happy0> TD: yeah, alright, i get it now... but i still don't think it's particularly clear =p
1880 2011-07-10 14:30:11 <Happy0> and thanks for providing this service =]
1881 2011-07-10 14:30:15 <diki> -daemon...hides the gui?
1882 2011-07-10 14:30:25 <TD> it does assume some familiarity with how bitcoin works, indeed
1883 2011-07-10 14:30:29 <sipa> diki: no, it daemonizes
1884 2011-07-10 14:30:34 <sipa> diki: i.e., backgrounds
1885 2011-07-10 14:30:44 <diki> daemon means server
1886 2011-07-10 14:30:46 <Happy0> TD: it seems to imply that there's a bitcoin exe already in the ~/testnet-box directory, is all i'm saying
1887 2011-07-10 14:30:48 <Happy0> your instructions
1888 2011-07-10 14:30:50 <diki> that's my understanding of it
1889 2011-07-10 14:30:54 <Happy0>  $ cd ~/testnet-box
1890 2011-07-10 14:30:54 <Happy0>   $ bitcoin -datadir=1 -daemon
1891 2011-07-10 14:30:54 <sipa> diki: daemon means background service
1892 2011-07-10 14:30:54 <Happy0>   $ bitcoin -datadir=2 -daemon
1893 2011-07-10 14:31:03 <Happy0> if i followed that, then my terminal would ask me
1894 2011-07-10 14:31:07 <Happy0> 'where is this bitcoin exe you speak of?'
1895 2011-07-10 14:31:14 <Happy0> so yeah, i have to have prior knowledge...
1896 2011-07-10 14:31:18 <TD> that's because you're on windows, whereas most bitcoin developers aren't
1897 2011-07-10 14:31:22 <Happy0> i'm not on windows =p
1898 2011-07-10 14:31:29 <TD> the instructions do sort of assume familiarity with unix
1899 2011-07-10 14:31:36 <TD> ok
1900 2011-07-10 14:31:42 <Happy0> i've not got 'bitcoin' set up as a 'alias' or whatever
1901 2011-07-10 14:31:49 <Happy0> and i didn't realise it assumed you had
1902 2011-07-10 14:32:02 <Happy0> but TD, you're right, i'm the one that's being an idiot here
1903 2011-07-10 14:32:10 <Happy0> sorry for wasteing your time, and thanks for your help :)
1904 2011-07-10 14:32:11 <TD> you're not being an idiot
1905 2011-07-10 14:32:24 <Happy0> haha, thanks :P
1906 2011-07-10 14:32:33 <TD> i can see why you might have read the instructions that way
1907 2011-07-10 14:32:47 <Happy0> i guess it's implied by the fact there's no
1908 2011-07-10 14:32:48 <Happy0> ./
1909 2011-07-10 14:33:00 <Happy0> before bitcoin :P
1910 2011-07-10 14:33:02 <Happy0> woops xD
1911 2011-07-10 14:33:37 <Happy0> anyway, thanks again... *and googles how to set up aliases* :P
1912 2011-07-10 14:34:39 eoss has joined
1913 2011-07-10 14:35:22 <Happy0> you're right, i'm more familiar with windows despite the fact i'm using unix for this
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1919 2011-07-10 14:43:51 <MrSam> UNK ?
1920 2011-07-10 14:43:52 <MrSam> http://blockexplorer.com/block/0000000000000719a1468efd7059b21ce07d4d854b4b7c50d3f67e04da335ed1
1921 2011-07-10 14:43:57 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1922 2011-07-10 14:44:02 <MrSam> nvm ;)
1923 2011-07-10 14:44:03 DontMindMe has joined
1924 2011-07-10 14:46:34 <Joric> just made myself a 'vanity' address :) ain't it cool? http://blockexplorer.com/address/1JoricCBkW8C5m7QUZMwoRz9rBCM6ZSy96
1925 2011-07-10 14:47:17 <dsockwell> that's better than all ipv6 addresses being beef:beef:beef
1926 2011-07-10 14:47:46 <dsockwell> how long did it take you to get that one?
1927 2011-07-10 14:47:56 phaedrus487 has quit (Quit: phaedrus487)
1928 2011-07-10 14:48:58 <Joric> 10 hours
1929 2011-07-10 14:49:59 <dsockwell> what did you do, loop bitcoin --new-address |grep -i Joric ?
1930 2011-07-10 14:50:06 <sacarlson> Joric: 10 hours and the comit hits and we are all dead?  or six girls knock on my door needing me
1931 2011-07-10 14:50:21 <dsockwell> sacarlson: the last one is in 11 hours
1932 2011-07-10 14:50:32 <dsockwell> the comet is coming in 10
1933 2011-07-10 14:50:41 <sacarlson> crap
1934 2011-07-10 14:50:52 <sacarlson> I never get lucky
1935 2011-07-10 14:51:20 <sipa> dsockwell: i suppose he used vanitygen :)
1936 2011-07-10 14:51:37 <Joric> dsockwell, https://github.com/samr7/vanitygen + https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/branches/showwallet
1937 2011-07-10 14:51:39 <dsockwell> ah
1938 2011-07-10 14:52:33 <Joric> trying to find out why upnp doesn't work with the current client on win7
1939 2011-07-10 14:53:27 <Joric> oddly but upnpc-exe-win32-20110215\upnpc-static.exe -l doesn't list connections while other clients do
1940 2011-07-10 14:54:33 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1941 2011-07-10 14:54:45 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1942 2011-07-10 14:55:39 Nicksasa has quit (Disconnected by services)
1943 2011-07-10 14:56:20 Nicksasa- has joined
1944 2011-07-10 14:57:03 <Joric> say http://www.wiseorbit.com/projects/downloads/UPnPPW_UI.exe lists all port mappings in the same time
1945 2011-07-10 14:58:11 <Joric> i'll try linux client maybe it's all because of win7
1946 2011-07-10 15:01:28 tandy80 has joined
1947 2011-07-10 15:02:23 WakiMiko has joined
1948 2011-07-10 15:03:25 Nicksasa has joined
1949 2011-07-10 15:04:07 <Joric> linux upnpc-static -l won't work either, GetGenericPortMappingEntry() returned -3 ((null))
1950 2011-07-10 15:04:44 DontMindMe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1951 2011-07-10 15:04:52 <Joric> maybe i have a lousy router
1952 2011-07-10 15:04:53 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1953 2011-07-10 15:05:01 estornudo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1954 2011-07-10 15:05:30 <sacarlson> did anyone read my article on Alternate Chain Licensed Mining? http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24209.0 if so I would like feedback good or bad is accepted
1955 2011-07-10 15:05:35 DontMindMe has joined
1956 2011-07-10 15:07:56 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,gen 2.4
1957 2011-07-10 15:07:57 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2.4 Khps, given current difficulty of 1563027.9961162 , is 1.54443050246e-06 BTC per day and 6.43512709359e-08 BTC per hour.
1958 2011-07-10 15:08:02 <Diablo-D3> er
1959 2011-07-10 15:08:05 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,gen 2400
1960 2011-07-10 15:08:06 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 2400 Khps, given current difficulty of 1563027.9961162 , is 0.00154443050246 BTC per day and 6.43512709359e-05 BTC per hour.
1961 2011-07-10 15:10:25 again is now known as tower
1962 2011-07-10 15:10:29 <Joric> how do you like addresses like 1BTC8hTuA4STT7Xbh14B2g2rTS5jtpiSeC ? vanitygen generates those almost instantly :)
1963 2011-07-10 15:11:59 Cryo has quit (Excess Flood)
1964 2011-07-10 15:12:19 Cryo has joined
1965 2011-07-10 15:12:52 Cryo is now known as Guest32316
1966 2011-07-10 15:13:13 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,gen 800000
1967 2011-07-10 15:13:14 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 800000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1563027.9961162 , is 0.514810167487 BTC per day and 0.0214504236453 BTC per hour.
1968 2011-07-10 15:13:16 <TD> sacarlson: i scanned it quickly
1969 2011-07-10 15:13:44 <TD> sacarlson: it looked like a forked client with more generalized chain support
1970 2011-07-10 15:13:49 <TD> and a bunch of other peoples patches
1971 2011-07-10 15:14:29 <doublec> TD: I think he wants feedback on the very last comment about licensed miners
1972 2011-07-10 15:14:33 <sacarlson> TD: yes that sound correct
1973 2011-07-10 15:14:46 <TD> oh right
1974 2011-07-10 15:14:49 <TD> sorry, i'll read that now
1975 2011-07-10 15:14:53 <sacarlson> doublec: yes that more correct
1976 2011-07-10 15:15:24 <doublec> vinced is coming out with a version of namecoind that handles cross chain mining soon
1977 2011-07-10 15:15:29 <doublec> it'll be interesting to see how that works
1978 2011-07-10 15:15:51 <doublec> http://dot-bit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=217
1979 2011-07-10 15:15:57 <TD> i think it's better to just piggyback on the bitcoin miners
1980 2011-07-10 15:16:14 <TD> mining is so centralized currently that once work sharing is implemented properly, you could get virtually all the bitcoin power behind your alternative
1981 2011-07-10 15:16:28 <sacarlson> doublec: yes I would like to incorporate all options into one with just changes in config and plugins if needed
1982 2011-07-10 15:17:05 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1983 2011-07-10 15:17:33 <sacarlson> TD: well I already requested how I could add my escrow transactions into bitcoin but was not looking very promising
1984 2011-07-10 15:18:28 <sacarlson> TD: as I think it's on the edge untested I think it belongs in the smaller relm of micro nets until tested fully
1985 2011-07-10 15:19:10 <denisx> why does bitcoind not give me a txid when I do sendtoaddress but still saves the transfer in the wallet?
1986 2011-07-10 15:19:29 <sacarlson> as the lic mining would provide a jumping point with security for a time until posible odoption into main stream
1987 2011-07-10 15:20:34 <sacarlson> td: to accelerate advancement and not wait for miner adoption I came to you with this idea of lic mining
1988 2011-07-10 15:22:16 <sacarlson> and how it can be implemented
1989 2011-07-10 15:22:45 <Joric> sacarlson, whoa that's a nice client
1990 2011-07-10 15:23:05 <sacarlson> Joric: thank you sir
1991 2011-07-10 15:23:44 <Joric> i guess satoshi nakamoto's client will give up soon just like bram cohen's bittorent client
1992 2011-07-10 15:23:55 <sacarlson> Joric: and witch one might that be as there are two different branches in our group
1993 2011-07-10 15:25:15 dedeibel has joined
1994 2011-07-10 15:25:20 <sacarlson> jaric: as I hope you note in the release this is alpha not meant for main stream
1995 2011-07-10 15:25:50 <TD> sacarlson: once work sharing is implemented, you won't have to get approval for each new feature or chain format
1996 2011-07-10 15:25:59 <TD> you'd just provide some software that connects to the main bitcoind
1997 2011-07-10 15:26:06 <TD> have you read the Alternative Chains wiki ?
1998 2011-07-10 15:26:36 <sacarlson> td: that was already a planed objective as an option in the plan to push for sharing
1999 2011-07-10 15:27:15 <sacarlson> td: but all options are open by configs
2000 2011-07-10 15:27:32 <redshark1802> denisx: hello, thanks so far yor your help. with poclbm i get a stable speed and not uknown-work anymore. but this does not solve this issue.
2001 2011-07-10 15:28:16 kokjo has joined
2002 2011-07-10 15:28:50 <kokjo> POSSIBLE HACK? maybe?: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=27611.0 what do you think?
2003 2011-07-10 15:29:08 <denisx> redshark1802: still problems?`
2004 2011-07-10 15:29:49 <redshark1802> denisx: only with phoenix-miner as it seems.
2005 2011-07-10 15:30:26 <denisx> redshark1802: then what issues are left?
2006 2011-07-10 15:30:47 <redshark1802> denisx: but on other pools using pushpool i have no problems with phoenix
2007 2011-07-10 15:31:25 <denisx> redshark1802: check your clock!
2008 2011-07-10 15:32:06 <redshark1802> host: So 10. Jul 15:28:58 UTC 2011 miner: So 10. Jul 15:29:14 UTC 2011
2009 2011-07-10 15:32:12 <Joric> i'm currently using patches 'show total number of blocks' + 'send from specific address'
2010 2011-07-10 15:33:31 again has joined
2011 2011-07-10 15:33:52 <sacarlson> kokjo: I will look at that closer as I have opened non standard scripting as an option in my release
2012 2011-07-10 15:34:34 <Joric> omg MagicalTux is a github/bitcoin member? what does he do? php security? :)
2013 2011-07-10 15:34:38 <kokjo> thanks
2014 2011-07-10 15:34:42 <TD> kokjo: why don't you implement it yourself?
2015 2011-07-10 15:34:50 <TD> and find out? i think it won't work
2016 2011-07-10 15:35:14 <kokjo> TD: why not?
2017 2011-07-10 15:35:36 <sacarlson> kokjo: oh and that was my release of MultiCoin and MultiCoin-qt not bitcoin
2018 2011-07-10 15:36:05 <TD> because the scripts are evaluated independently.
2019 2011-07-10 15:36:11 <TD> they aren't concatenated then evaluated as a whole
2020 2011-07-10 15:37:28 <kokjo> no they are not,. the scripts are just smashed together.
2021 2011-07-10 15:38:04 <sacarlson> TD: thanks for giving me confidence we aren't totaly screewed YET in kokjo's link, I'm not a script expert yet
2022 2011-07-10 15:38:07 icy has joined
2023 2011-07-10 15:38:21 <kokjo> TD: i think you are wrong.
2024 2011-07-10 15:38:40 <sacarlson> kokjo: well like he said prove it
2025 2011-07-10 15:39:04 <TD> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/script.cpp#L1152
2026 2011-07-10 15:39:07 <sacarlson> kokjo: I'll make a simple tool to create scripts to try
2027 2011-07-10 15:39:10 <TD> as you can see, there are two EvalScript calls
2028 2011-07-10 15:39:13 <TD> they share the stack
2029 2011-07-10 15:39:19 <TD> but, they do not share execution environments otherwise
2030 2011-07-10 15:39:27 <TD> thus you cannot PUSHDATA things that are not a part of that script
2031 2011-07-10 15:41:06 <kokjo> TD: you are right! i was about to getting nervouse
2032 2011-07-10 15:41:54 <Joric> kokjo, what are the consequences?
2033 2011-07-10 15:42:01 nus has joined
2034 2011-07-10 15:42:17 <kokjo> joric: none apperently.
2035 2011-07-10 15:42:44 <Joric> i mean, theoretically :)
2036 2011-07-10 15:42:53 <TD> you could spend other peoples money
2037 2011-07-10 15:43:06 <kokjo> else it would be that anyone could use any transaction with an address hash that ends with 75
2038 2011-07-10 15:43:24 <icy> if I'm accepting payments via BTC from customers and generate a new address for each "checkout", is the best way to process incoming payments by polling via "listtransactions" and increasing the "count" param in case the most recently processed transaction is not in the list?
2039 2011-07-10 15:44:35 tandy80 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2040 2011-07-10 15:45:19 <TD> icy: good question. i think that may be the case, yeah. you could also use the accounts feature to create an account for each user
2041 2011-07-10 15:45:22 <TD> then poll its balance
2042 2011-07-10 15:45:27 <TD> there is a patch somewhere that lets bitcoind call you back
2043 2011-07-10 15:45:33 <TD> so you get immediate updates about the status of your wallet
2044 2011-07-10 15:45:35 <TD> it should be merged
2045 2011-07-10 15:45:57 <TD> bitcoins support for merchants is very poor currently :(
2046 2011-07-10 15:46:22 <icy> well the api in general is.. not ideal I'd say :)
2047 2011-07-10 15:46:30 <icy> starts with inconsistent naming hehe
2048 2011-07-10 15:46:36 <TD> yeah
2049 2011-07-10 15:46:48 <TD> but the bigger deal is lack of a really thorough guide to integrating with your online store
2050 2011-07-10 15:46:59 <icy> that's why I have trouble getting my head around it to find the optimal way to implement what I want
2051 2011-07-10 15:50:57 <icy> move/sendfrom (but not sendtoaddres?) accept a minconf parameter, what is that doing? I can see how it is used for listing transactions but not when sending
2052 2011-07-10 15:51:48 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2053 2011-07-10 15:53:35 <TD> it's not a useful concept when sending
2054 2011-07-10 15:53:42 <TD> minconf is about measuring the risk of funds sent to you
2055 2011-07-10 15:53:49 <TD> in practice, the risk is almost zero even with minconf=0
2056 2011-07-10 15:53:53 sabalaba has joined
2057 2011-07-10 15:53:58 <TD> but if you were a high risk merchant (eg, a currency exchange) you'd set it higher
2058 2011-07-10 15:54:49 <icy> I know what the concept is for when listing existing transaction
2059 2011-07-10 15:54:54 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r140 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Optimize chain download further by skipping merkle root verification unless there are transactions relevant to a wallet in the block. Refactor some code out of WalletTest into a new static TestUtils class. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r140/
2060 2011-07-10 15:55:00 <icy> but I can't imagine what it would be used for when creating new transactions
2061 2011-07-10 15:55:25 <TD> presumably for selecting the inputs
2062 2011-07-10 15:55:29 <TD> i never looked closely at that
2063 2011-07-10 15:55:36 <icy> ah that makes sense
2064 2011-07-10 15:56:39 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r141 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Transaction.java: Delete unused setFakeHashForTesting method. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r141/
2065 2011-07-10 15:59:07 phaedrus487 has joined
2066 2011-07-10 16:00:00 <Joric> btw mybitcoin.com accepts transactions almost instantly without waiting for finishing the next block
2067 2011-07-10 16:00:29 somuchwin has joined
2068 2011-07-10 16:03:53 nus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2069 2011-07-10 16:04:56 <icy> TD: thinking about the "account per user" method. I guess it would reduce privacy aswell as needing more polling (you need to poll each account to see if users have sent money)
2070 2011-07-10 16:04:59 <Joric> most vendors i tried do, i mean if you accept money (i.e. for gambling) you can't make customer wait 10 (or 50) minutes
2071 2011-07-10 16:09:30 <TD> icy: well, only the ones you are expecting to send you money
2072 2011-07-10 16:09:47 <TD> Joric: well for something like mybitcoin it's riskier because they let you send the coins out again
2073 2011-07-10 16:09:52 <icy> TD: which in my case I don't know
2074 2011-07-10 16:09:58 <TD> Joric: for vendors who are selling things, it's not such a big deal imo
2075 2011-07-10 16:10:03 da2ce7 has quit ()
2076 2011-07-10 16:11:17 infinitevs has quit ()
2077 2011-07-10 16:11:59 <icy> is the list returned by "listtransactions" guaranteed to be ordered by timestamp and not possible to return previously unseen transactions when one remembers the last seen transaction?
2078 2011-07-10 16:12:19 <Joric> back to upnpc i've found the 'bug' in my router (or maybe in upnpc) URLBase in rootDesc.xml was is wrong (i've set router to 10.1.1.1 but urlbase remained 192.168.1.1) it doesn't allow upnpc client to function normally
2079 2011-07-10 16:12:47 <TD> icy: it's generally not safe to try and build up a list of transactions that way ... transactions are fluid and can disappear
2080 2011-07-10 16:12:49 <Joric> *was wrong
2081 2011-07-10 16:12:56 <TD> it's better to check the balance of a given address
2082 2011-07-10 16:13:02 <icy> transactions can disappear?
2083 2011-07-10 16:13:05 <TD> yes.
2084 2011-07-10 16:13:18 <icy> hm
2085 2011-07-10 16:13:36 <icy> is that due to some kind of garbage collection?
2086 2011-07-10 16:13:46 <TD> no. bitcoin establishes a distributed consensus on who owns what
2087 2011-07-10 16:13:55 <TD> if that consensus changes, you can "lose" coins you thought you had
2088 2011-07-10 16:14:04 <TD> it's unlikely/rare/actually hardly ever happened
2089 2011-07-10 16:14:06 freakazoid has joined
2090 2011-07-10 16:14:07 <TD> but it's a theoretical possibility
2091 2011-07-10 16:14:24 <icy> well yea but the balance for an address would change too in that case
2092 2011-07-10 16:14:59 <icy> plus I don't even see a method to get the balance for a given address
2093 2011-07-10 16:15:15 <TD> oh, hmm
2094 2011-07-10 16:15:22 cryptocnt has joined
2095 2011-07-10 16:15:27 <TD> i wonder how other services do it
2096 2011-07-10 16:15:31 Joric has quit ()
2097 2011-07-10 16:15:35 <TD> i don't run a bitcoin accepting site so i'm not the best person to help i'm afraid
2098 2011-07-10 16:15:43 <TD> gribble: seen gavinandresen
2099 2011-07-10 16:15:48 <TD> ;;seen gavinandresen
2100 2011-07-10 16:15:48 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 6 days, 0 hours, 15 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> afk for a bit
2101 2011-07-10 16:15:58 <icy> "a bit" :P
2102 2011-07-10 16:16:02 nus has joined
2103 2011-07-10 16:16:20 <TD> gavin has been very quiet lately
2104 2011-07-10 16:16:23 <TD> i wonder what's up with that
2105 2011-07-10 16:16:31 Lachesis has joined
2106 2011-07-10 16:16:52 <BlueMatt> TD: vacation
2107 2011-07-10 16:17:01 <TD> ah, again? thought he just got back from france
2108 2011-07-10 16:17:06 <BlueMatt> or out of country, not sure why
2109 2011-07-10 16:17:07 Lachesis has quit (Client Quit)
2110 2011-07-10 16:18:18 <icy> BlueMatt: do you happen to know what guarantees "listtransactions" gives?
2111 2011-07-10 16:18:19 <BlueMatt> ok, I submit pull 352 wallet encryption is done
2112 2011-07-10 16:18:47 <BlueMatt> sipa: tcatm jgarzik ^
2113 2011-07-10 16:19:10 <BlueMatt> icy: I dont know most of the rpc commands off-hand
2114 2011-07-10 16:20:02 <icy> :(
2115 2011-07-10 16:21:07 <phantomcircuit> icy, pull the transactions from listtransactions into a db
2116 2011-07-10 16:21:12 <phantomcircuit> unique key the txid
2117 2011-07-10 16:21:20 <phantomcircuit> add a processed field
2118 2011-07-10 16:21:32 <phantomcircuit> call listtransactions a lot
2119 2011-07-10 16:21:38 <phantomcircuit> hope you never miss one
2120 2011-07-10 16:22:32 <icy> that was what I head in mind
2121 2011-07-10 16:23:04 lyspooner has joined
2122 2011-07-10 16:24:06 <icy> question is if e.g. on poll #1 it returns a list like (a,b,d) and I note "last procssed d" and on poll #2 it returns (a,b,c,d,e,f) then I would miss c
2123 2011-07-10 16:24:52 <icy> hence my question if it guarantees that this kind of thing would not happen
2124 2011-07-10 16:25:11 <BlueMatt> read the code
2125 2011-07-10 16:25:49 karnac has joined
2126 2011-07-10 16:26:27 <icy> BlueMatt: reading the code will probably not be enough, I'd need to get a thorough understanding of the whole system to answer my question with confidence
2127 2011-07-10 16:27:41 <dsockwell> you dont want to miss a transaction icy?
2128 2011-07-10 16:28:04 <dsockwell> oh /m
2129 2011-07-10 16:28:27 <dsockwell> icy: to be safe you would need to pull the entire history and insert it into your db
2130 2011-07-10 16:28:38 <dsockwell> using txid as a unique key
2131 2011-07-10 16:28:57 <dsockwell> and just offload your problem to the db engine
2132 2011-07-10 16:29:05 <icy> dsockwell: yea but that would be horribly slow with a bigger number of transactions
2133 2011-07-10 16:29:18 <icy> you have to check EACH on every poll
2134 2011-07-10 16:29:26 <dsockwell> yup
2135 2011-07-10 16:29:34 <dsockwell> better have a fast computer
2136 2011-07-10 16:29:44 <BlueMatt> bitcoin has no way of managing that either, so...
2137 2011-07-10 16:29:55 <BlueMatt> either bitcoin keeps that db, or you
2138 2011-07-10 16:30:46 <sacarlson> does bitcoind have an api to create custom scripts?
2139 2011-07-10 16:30:47 <dsockwell> icy: or you can do one better, grab the last 100 transactions every minute (or whatever rate has a high hit rate) and then pull the entire db every 5
2140 2011-07-10 16:31:01 <icy> well since it all is based off of a blockchain, I could assume that no new transactions will appear for blacks that I have already processed?
2141 2011-07-10 16:31:12 <dsockwell> icy: that's reasonable
2142 2011-07-10 16:31:25 <dsockwell> however if you're counting confirmations it could get tricky
2143 2011-07-10 16:31:30 <sipa> icy: use gavin's monitorreveidedpatch
2144 2011-07-10 16:31:56 <sipa> it will notify you each time a wallet tx is added
2145 2011-07-10 16:32:43 <icy> does it handle failures of the api?
2146 2011-07-10 16:32:58 <sipa> define failure?
2147 2011-07-10 16:33:24 <icy> if it notifies me and it can't for whatever reason, will it retry?
2148 2011-07-10 16:33:31 <sipa> no
2149 2011-07-10 16:33:51 <icy> then I can't use that either
2150 2011-07-10 16:34:46 <sipa> when your listener starts up, it should poll for all transactions it isn't sureanout yetanyway
2151 2011-07-10 16:34:54 <sipa> sure about
2152 2011-07-10 16:34:57 freakazoid has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2153 2011-07-10 16:34:57 WildSoil has joined
2154 2011-07-10 16:35:14 <sipa> so i don't see the problem
2155 2011-07-10 16:35:17 <WildSoil> ;;bc,stats
2156 2011-07-10 16:35:20 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135633 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 1454 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 21 hours, 29 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1597000.40024692
2157 2011-07-10 16:35:36 <sipa> either you are listening, and you get notified
2158 2011-07-10 16:35:56 <sipa> or you're not and you will need to catch up
2159 2011-07-10 16:36:26 <icy> that is the idea of listtransactions which brings us back to the guarantees of ordering
2160 2011-07-10 16:36:55 <phantomcircuit> icy, dont use a last processed
2161 2011-07-10 16:39:38 <phantomcircuit> icy, listtransactions will give you the transaction id, have a table with the transaction id UNIQUE, processed BOOLEAN DEFAULT FALSE
2162 2011-07-10 16:39:44 Guest32316 is now known as Cryo
2163 2011-07-10 16:39:49 Cryo has quit (Changing host)
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2165 2011-07-10 16:39:54 <phantomcircuit> then you can just insert into the table whatever you get from listtransactions
2166 2011-07-10 16:40:01 <phantomcircuit> and process anything where processed=False
2167 2011-07-10 16:40:03 <phantomcircuit> magic
2168 2011-07-10 16:40:16 zapnap has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2169 2011-07-10 16:40:39 <icy> phantomcircuit: that is what dsockwell suggested and will be horribly slow for any bigger amount of transactions
2170 2011-07-10 16:41:03 <phantomcircuit> uh no it really wont
2171 2011-07-10 16:42:21 <icy> you will have thousands of inserts for each poll after a while no?
2172 2011-07-10 16:44:31 <phantomcircuit> you'll only insert if the transaction isn't already there
2173 2011-07-10 16:45:58 <upb> but you cant know that before trying to insert
2174 2011-07-10 16:46:21 <upb> unless you pull the data form db which would be even more pointless
2175 2011-07-10 16:46:32 <icy> exactly
2176 2011-07-10 16:47:18 koleg has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2177 2011-07-10 16:48:15 <upb> i think it would make sense to write a patch that publishes transactions to a mq with guaranteed delivery
2178 2011-07-10 16:48:42 <icy> my hope would be that if you do listtransactions and process those which have at least say 1 confirmation then it would mean you have that block and no new transactions prior to the one you last processed can appear
2179 2011-07-10 16:48:45 AStove has quit ()
2180 2011-07-10 16:49:35 <icy> but my understanding of the blockchain is not deep enough
2181 2011-07-10 16:50:51 freakazoid has joined
2182 2011-07-10 16:52:37 datagutt has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2183 2011-07-10 16:53:28 datagutt has joined
2184 2011-07-10 16:55:52 <phantomcircuit> upb, SELECT txid FROM transactions WHERE txid IN ();
2185 2011-07-10 16:56:03 <phantomcircuit> that's going to be pretty fast
2186 2011-07-10 16:59:26 sabalaba has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2187 2011-07-10 17:00:45 bk128 has quit (Quit: bk128)
2188 2011-07-10 17:02:58 Joric has joined
2189 2011-07-10 17:04:37 <b4epoche> what's this?  Moving away from db?  ;-)
2190 2011-07-10 17:05:15 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2191 2011-07-10 17:05:33 <b4epoche> how about parallel db's for a while?  db for important stuff until the new one gets a good workout?
2192 2011-07-10 17:06:01 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
2193 2011-07-10 17:06:15 huk has joined
2194 2011-07-10 17:07:25 koleg has joined
2195 2011-07-10 17:07:48 <icy> phantomcircuit: no that's not gonna be fast since you have a HUGE list for that IN ()
2196 2011-07-10 17:08:28 <phantomcircuit> icy, you get the last 100 transactions every minute
2197 2011-07-10 17:08:34 datagutt has joined
2198 2011-07-10 17:08:36 <phantomcircuit> last 1k every hour
2199 2011-07-10 17:08:45 <phantomcircuit> all of them daily at lowest point
2200 2011-07-10 17:08:51 <phantomcircuit> magic
2201 2011-07-10 17:09:06 <upb> its not magic but fucking bullshit
2202 2011-07-10 17:09:28 <phantomcircuit> alternatively you could just listtransactions by block
2203 2011-07-10 17:09:28 <icy> I was about to say something similar :)
2204 2011-07-10 17:09:39 <phantomcircuit> although you cant do that with rpc afaik
2205 2011-07-10 17:09:50 b4epoche has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
2206 2011-07-10 17:09:52 <upb> your pounding a db from both sides for nothing
2207 2011-07-10 17:10:40 <upb> if theres a patch to do a http request when a transaction is 'discovered' by bitcoind
2208 2011-07-10 17:10:56 <phantomcircuit> you're going to lose transactions
2209 2011-07-10 17:10:58 <phantomcircuit> guaranteed
2210 2011-07-10 17:11:01 Fireball has joined
2211 2011-07-10 17:11:15 <upb> replace that http request with a mq publish on a guaranteed delivery channel
2212 2011-07-10 17:11:21 <upb> and you avoid the db
2213 2011-07-10 17:12:03 <phantomcircuit> inserting 100k transactions took 15 seconds on postgresql with statement_commit on
2214 2011-07-10 17:12:27 <phantomcircuit> doing that once a day should be fine
2215 2011-07-10 17:12:33 <icy> and during those 15 seconds your websites comes to a halt?
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2219 2011-07-10 17:15:24 <icy> also what after a few years you have accumulated a few million transactions
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2224 2011-07-10 17:19:33 <icy> by the way, seems like this would do the trick: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/199
2225 2011-07-10 17:26:59 Gonzago has joined
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2227 2011-07-10 17:27:16 <upb> seems so :)
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2240 2011-07-10 17:41:11 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r142 /trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Don't pre-calculate the hash in the Transaction parse code. Speeds up processing of large blocks with no relevant transactions. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r142/
2241 2011-07-10 17:41:16 ahihi2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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2246 2011-07-10 17:50:55 <codemojo> suppose I modified the bitcoin client to return change to the old input
2247 2011-07-10 17:51:10 <codemojo> so, to not generate a new address for the change
2248 2011-07-10 17:51:15 <codemojo> would that be bad?
2249 2011-07-10 17:52:32 <codemojo> (if I want to give users one address they can check on blockexplorer)
2250 2011-07-10 17:54:22 <denisx> is this address valid: 1sEga7Q5g6UkAXy57YBc8oMwGcJPeq5yC
2251 2011-07-10 17:54:23 <denisx> ?
2252 2011-07-10 17:55:10 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2253 2011-07-10 17:55:24 <redshark1802> yep
2254 2011-07-10 17:55:26 upb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2255 2011-07-10 17:55:31 wolfspraul has joined
2256 2011-07-10 17:55:51 <codemojo> denisx: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=1026.0
2257 2011-07-10 17:56:10 <sacarlson> denisx: the only problem with that address is it's not mine so I guess I don't get the money
2258 2011-07-10 17:56:46 <denisx> but this address is one char shorter than all other addresses
2259 2011-07-10 17:57:07 <Titeuf_87> denisx, blockexplorer has a tool to check addresses: http://blockexplorer.com/q/checkaddress
2260 2011-07-10 17:57:28 <Titeuf_87> it looks to be correct
2261 2011-07-10 17:58:04 <denisx> yeah, but bitcoind seems not to like it
2262 2011-07-10 17:58:26 <redshark1802> it does
2263 2011-07-10 17:59:00 <denisx> but I can't send coins to it
2264 2011-07-10 17:59:01 <redshark1802> ./bitcoind validateaddress 1sEga7Q5g6UkAXy57YBc8oMwGcJPeq5yC
2265 2011-07-10 17:59:01 <redshark1802>   "isvalid" : true,  "address" : "1sEga7Q5g6UkAXy57YBc8oMwGcJPeq5yC", "ismine" : false
2266 2011-07-10 17:59:26 <sacarlson> redshark1802: I concure
2267 2011-07-10 18:00:10 <sacarlson> denisx: what client is that?
2268 2011-07-10 18:00:29 Joric has quit ()
2269 2011-07-10 18:00:30 <denisx> sacarlson: bitcoind 0.3.23 on freebsd
2270 2011-07-10 18:01:18 <sacarlson> denisx: did you try the validateaddress what does that give you in that envirnment
2271 2011-07-10 18:02:04 <sacarlson> denisx: for me it returns the same as redshark1802 see's
2272 2011-07-10 18:02:12 <denisx> yeah, here too
2273 2011-07-10 18:02:53 <denisx> but when I try to send coins bitcoind yells:
2274 2011-07-10 18:02:54 <denisx> WARNING: sendtoadress() failed for wallet: 1sEga7Q5g6UkAXy57YBc8oMwGcJPeq5yC amount:0.056947 : Error: The transaction was rejected.  This might happen if some of the coins in your wallet were already spent, such as if you used a copy of wallet.dat and coins were spent in the copy but not marked as spent here.
2275 2011-07-10 18:02:54 <sacarlson> well denisx sounds like a good bluf to get someone to try it, but I'm broke
2276 2011-07-10 18:03:00 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
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2278 2011-07-10 18:03:24 <sacarlson> oh denisx your broke too
2279 2011-07-10 18:03:35 <denisx> no, I'm not
2280 2011-07-10 18:03:54 <denisx> "balance" : 14.36385991,
2281 2011-07-10 18:04:26 <sacarlson> denisx:  maybe rescan -scan ?
2282 2011-07-10 18:05:34 <sacarlson> denisx: try -rescan
2283 2011-07-10 18:05:37 <denisx> ok
2284 2011-07-10 18:05:53 slux has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2285 2011-07-10 18:05:56 Fireball has quit (Quit: ROS is the power.)
2286 2011-07-10 18:06:06 <Joric> got upnp working, found out i just had a crappy router with hardcoded 'URLBase' :) i just replaced all URLBase to ARLBase in libminiupnpc.a and voila - 20 connections :) i'd recommend to update miniupnpc though, utorrent doesn't give a fuck about URLBase
2287 2011-07-10 18:06:23 <sacarlson> sounds like corrupted wallet or split with same wallet on two systems
2288 2011-07-10 18:06:27 <BlueMatt> well utorrent is broken then
2289 2011-07-10 18:08:34 TD has joined
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2292 2011-07-10 18:12:59 <denisx> sacarlson: is -rescan the same as -server but also with a rescan?
2293 2011-07-10 18:13:05 <denisx> it doesn't come back
2294 2011-07-10 18:13:11 <BlueMatt> no
2295 2011-07-10 18:13:16 <denisx> I mean it does no finish
2296 2011-07-10 18:13:17 <BlueMatt> rescan is just rescan
2297 2011-07-10 18:13:23 <denisx> not
2298 2011-07-10 18:13:26 <BlueMatt> yes it does, it can take a sec though
2299 2011-07-10 18:13:37 <denisx> ok
2300 2011-07-10 18:14:05 <denisx> it runs for several minutes now
2301 2011-07-10 18:14:34 <BlueMatt> then it might be broken
2302 2011-07-10 18:14:56 <denisx> but I can start another bitcoind with getinfo
2303 2011-07-10 18:14:58 <denisx> and that works
2304 2011-07-10 18:16:12 ahihi2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2305 2011-07-10 18:16:45 <sipa> rescan shouldn't take more than a few seconds
2306 2011-07-10 18:16:51 <sipa> if your disk is fast
2307 2011-07-10 18:17:09 <sipa> but there is no feedback, so you won't know that it's finished
2308 2011-07-10 18:17:33 ahihi2 has joined
2309 2011-07-10 18:17:39 <denisx> sipa: ok, after that it drops to servermode?
2310 2011-07-10 18:17:46 <phantomcircuit> rescan can be much slower than that for larger wallets
2311 2011-07-10 18:18:13 <sipa> denisx: then it goes on with whatever it was supposed to do
2312 2011-07-10 18:19:05 <sipa> but unless you're upgrading from pre-0.3.23, you shouldn't ever need -rescan
2313 2011-07-10 18:19:41 <phantomcircuit> if you manually swap out wallets
2314 2011-07-10 18:19:57 <sipa> even then
2315 2011-07-10 18:20:10 <sipa> only if you're manually tinkering with your wallet
2316 2011-07-10 18:20:22 <phantomcircuit> yeah only took 7 seconds
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2318 2011-07-10 18:21:01 <sipa> since 0.3.22, it does an automatic partial rescan if it detects the blockchain changed
2319 2011-07-10 18:21:57 <b4epoche> might bitcointools help?
2320 2011-07-10 18:22:02 tandy80 has joined
2321 2011-07-10 18:22:33 <sipa> for what?
2322 2011-07-10 18:25:45 <denisx> ok, then it seems my wallet if healthy
2323 2011-07-10 18:26:25 <denisx> but my bitcoind has problems with transaction to this address: 1sEga7Q5g6UkAXy57YBc8oMwGcJPeq5yC
2324 2011-07-10 18:26:38 <denisx> it says: The transaction was rejected
2325 2011-07-10 18:26:46 <denisx> but I can still see it in listtransactions
2326 2011-07-10 18:26:52 <denisx> so something is fishy
2327 2011-07-10 18:26:55 <sipa> how does it tell you that?
2328 2011-07-10 18:27:11 <denisx> errormsg from sendtoaddress
2329 2011-07-10 18:27:22 tandy80 has left ()
2330 2011-07-10 18:28:50 <sipa> does that error remain if you restart the client?
2331 2011-07-10 18:29:33 <sipa> and which error do you see in debug.log
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2333 2011-07-10 18:30:45 <denisx> sipa: for what should I grep in the debug.log?
2334 2011-07-10 18:30:51 <denisx> txid or the address?
2335 2011-07-10 18:31:38 <sipa> for "CommitTransaction() : Error"
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2341 2011-07-10 18:38:27 <prof7bit> why does the header of the "version" message have an empty checksum field? will it be rejected if I send a proper checksum anyways or will it be ignored? And why was this ugly exception from the rule chosen in the first place?
2342 2011-07-10 18:38:49 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2343 2011-07-10 18:38:55 <sipa> i have no idea
2344 2011-07-10 18:39:03 <forrestv> prof7bit, it's not empty - it's completely missing
2345 2011-07-10 18:39:12 <b4epoche> bitcointools to dump his wallet to see if it's corrupt...  but apparently not needed now
2346 2011-07-10 18:39:14 <forrestv> yes, it will be rejected as the clients expect it to be missing
2347 2011-07-10 18:39:36 <forrestv> prof7bit, and it's for compatibility with older clients - i believe that clients before version 209 didn't use checksums anywhere
2348 2011-07-10 18:39:37 <prof7bit> argh...
2349 2011-07-10 18:40:36 <prof7bit> ok. then it is understandable, otherwise i could not parse the version message at all
2350 2011-07-10 18:40:46 AStove has joined
2351 2011-07-10 18:41:55 <prof7bit> should be mentioned in the wiki
2352 2011-07-10 18:42:05 <prof7bit> (the older clients)
2353 2011-07-10 18:43:56 <prof7bit> next question: the timestamp: in the example hex dump it a local time zone is mentioned. Is this used for anything? why not UTC? will it be used to determine the client's time zone?
2354 2011-07-10 18:45:19 <sipa> where do you read that?
2355 2011-07-10 18:45:59 again is now known as tower
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2357 2011-07-10 18:46:22 <Titeuf_87> prof7bit, afaik, the timestamp is a standard unix one, so it is in UTC already
2358 2011-07-10 18:46:38 senseles has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2359 2011-07-10 18:46:49 <prof7bit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#version
2360 2011-07-10 18:47:10 <prof7bit> there is a hex dump and its commented with a time in EST
2361 2011-07-10 18:47:19 <sipa> yes it's shown in local time
2362 2011-07-10 18:47:34 <sipa> but the timestamp itself (the 32 bit value) is a unix time stamp
2363 2011-07-10 18:47:38 <sipa> which is always in UTC
2364 2011-07-10 18:49:57 <lyspooner> how will a different planet record timestamps
2365 2011-07-10 18:50:02 <prof7bit> ok, then i will just send what my clock says is UTC
2366 2011-07-10 18:50:28 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2367 2011-07-10 18:50:29 <prof7bit> i was confused by the comment written next to it
2368 2011-07-10 18:50:32 <sipa> just send the current time_t
2369 2011-07-10 18:51:46 <wasabi2> Cool. That shows that IPv4 addresses are IPv6 encoded properly.
2370 2011-07-10 18:52:53 <unclemantis> is there a recommended usb drive for bitcoin?
2371 2011-07-10 18:53:28 <sipa> usb drive for what?
2372 2011-07-10 18:53:30 <redshark1802> i recommend the corsair voyager series
2373 2011-07-10 18:53:42 <redshark1802> fast and reliable
2374 2011-07-10 18:54:13 <prof7bit> <sipa> just send the current time_t  <---   i'm writing it in pascal :-) there I need to make the timestamp myself because in pascal the TDateTime is a double and it all works a bit different in that universe.
2375 2011-07-10 18:54:22 blueadept has joined
2376 2011-07-10 18:54:49 <sipa> oh i see
2377 2011-07-10 18:54:50 <unclemantis> sipa for the bitcoin wallet and client you silly goose
2378 2011-07-10 18:55:20 <sipa> unclemantis: could be that you wanted one for mining, or for storing a wallet for a long time
2379 2011-07-10 18:55:30 <redshark1802> awesome: http://www.corsair.com/usb-drives/flash-voyager/flash-voyager/flash-voyager-usb-3-16gb-usb-flashdrive.html
2380 2011-07-10 18:55:40 m00p has joined
2381 2011-07-10 18:55:41 <unclemantis> sipa a shopping wallet :)
2382 2011-07-10 18:55:48 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2383 2011-07-10 18:55:53 <unclemantis> keychain wallet
2384 2011-07-10 18:56:12 <unclemantis> at a library "ohhh i wanna buy that." kinda usb drive
2385 2011-07-10 18:59:49 Tim-7967 has joined
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2392 2011-07-10 19:05:35 <ewal> unclemantis: https://www.ironkey.com/demo-basic
2393 2011-07-10 19:09:10 <Joric> hmm... cryptochip
2394 2011-07-10 19:09:26 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2395 2011-07-10 19:09:44 <Joric> wonder how many sha256 it does per second
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2404 2011-07-10 19:24:23 * luke-jr smacks BlueMatt
2405 2011-07-10 19:26:13 <BlueMatt> ?
2406 2011-07-10 19:27:12 Tim-7967 has joined
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2409 2011-07-10 19:28:12 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: stop breaking the CIA filter.
2410 2011-07-10 19:28:21 <BlueMatt> broke it how?
2411 2011-07-10 19:28:30 <luke-jr> don't know what you're trying to do with it, but it keeps filtering out practically everything
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2416 2011-07-10 19:31:25 <BlueMatt> there, happy now?
2417 2011-07-10 19:32:18 <luke-jr> I'm pretty sure that will still lose most
2418 2011-07-10 19:32:24 <luke-jr> what exactly are you trying to do?
2419 2011-07-10 19:32:26 <BlueMatt> how?
2420 2011-07-10 19:32:54 <BlueMatt> that will just reject everything with bitcoind-personal in the files and accept everything else
2421 2011-07-10 19:32:57 <phantomcircuit> redshark1802, i dont know of any flash drive that can saturate usb 2.0
2422 2011-07-10 19:32:57 <luke-jr> project=bitcoin handles almost everything
2423 2011-07-10 19:33:04 <phantomcircuit> going usb 3.0 seems kind of ridiculous
2424 2011-07-10 19:33:17 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: oh, missed the not part
2425 2011-07-10 19:33:18 <BlueMatt> no, it clearly doesnt
2426 2011-07-10 19:33:24 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: in any case, those should be included too
2427 2011-07-10 19:33:41 <BlueMatt> no they shouldnt
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2434 2011-07-10 19:53:07 <kreal-> Hi
2435 2011-07-10 19:53:14 <kreal-> the txid is the same on both sides right?
2436 2011-07-10 19:53:41 <sipa> 'sides' ?
2437 2011-07-10 19:54:01 <sipa> a txid is the hash of the tx data, so if the tx doesn't change, its id remains the same as well
2438 2011-07-10 19:54:04 <kreal-> I mean if I send 1 bitcoin to an address, my transaction txid would be the same as his transaction txid?
2439 2011-07-10 19:56:04 <sipa> 'his' ?
2440 2011-07-10 19:56:20 eoss has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2441 2011-07-10 19:56:20 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2443 2011-07-10 19:56:29 <kreal-> nevermind.
2444 2011-07-10 19:56:36 <kreal-> i fail at explaning what I mean.
2445 2011-07-10 19:56:43 <sipa> a transaction is identified by its txid
2446 2011-07-10 19:57:01 <sipa> so if you're talking about one particular transaction, its txid is the same, everywhere
2447 2011-07-10 19:57:08 _nomit has joined
2448 2011-07-10 19:57:10 <kreal-> hmm okie
2449 2011-07-10 19:57:16 <redshark1802> yes kreal. the transaction you send gets an txid and the txid will be the same for the receiver
2450 2011-07-10 19:57:16 <phantomcircuit> lol that guy who tried to trademark is an idiot
2451 2011-07-10 19:57:23 <kreal-> so I would be able to identify a trade by the txid.
2452 2011-07-10 19:57:29 <sipa> yes
2453 2011-07-10 19:57:31 <phantomcircuit> he basically admitted to perjuring himself in an email to someone
2454 2011-07-10 19:57:31 <kreal-> nice
2455 2011-07-10 19:57:32 <kreal-> thanks.
2456 2011-07-10 19:57:48 <kreal-> thats what I was after.
2457 2011-07-10 19:58:13 <kreal-> cause Im selling something and want then to respond me there email and someform of identification of the transactions.
2458 2011-07-10 19:58:23 <kreal-> and txid would do perfectly I think then.
2459 2011-07-10 19:58:40 <luke-jr> kreal-: if you want to be scammed
2460 2011-07-10 19:58:58 <kreal-> luke-jr: Ill reather not.
2461 2011-07-10 19:59:06 <luke-jr> kreal-: txid is public record
2462 2011-07-10 19:59:12 <luke-jr> anyone can claim to have sent it
2463 2011-07-10 19:59:21 <kreal-> hmm yes
2464 2011-07-10 19:59:25 <sipa> kreal-: if you need to verify a tx, use a different address for each sale
2465 2011-07-10 19:59:31 <redshark1802> just wait until the btcs are in your wallet or at least in the blockchain and then you can look the txid up on blockexplorer
2466 2011-07-10 19:59:37 nomit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2467 2011-07-10 19:59:39 <sipa> if the necessary funds arrive at that address, the sale is complete
2468 2011-07-10 19:59:42 erle- has joined
2469 2011-07-10 19:59:53 <luke-jr> kreal-: Real Soon Now, people will be able to sign emails with the transaction keys
2470 2011-07-10 20:00:05 <luke-jr> to prove they sent it
2471 2011-07-10 20:00:14 <kreal-> would be perfect.
2472 2011-07-10 20:00:24 <kreal-> coming after wallet encryption ?
2473 2011-07-10 20:00:30 <luke-jr> probably
2474 2011-07-10 20:00:35 <luke-jr> maybe at the same time?
2475 2011-07-10 20:00:38 <sipa> somewhere in the 0.4.x branch probably, yes
2476 2011-07-10 20:00:41 <luke-jr> time will tell
2477 2011-07-10 20:00:55 <sipa> doubtful it will go in 0.4.0
2478 2011-07-10 20:01:03 <luke-jr> actually, 0.4.0 won't have it user friendly I bet, even if it has JSON-RPC
2479 2011-07-10 20:01:05 <kreal-> ok goodie goodie, ill figure something out :
2480 2011-07-10 20:01:06 <kreal-> :)
2481 2011-07-10 20:01:26 <sipa> but the advised way is definitely using a different address for each trade
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2490 2011-07-10 20:15:07 <makomk> justmoon: BTW, I did write a more automated way to recover bitcoin private keys... possibly partly based on your info even: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25091.0
2491 2011-07-10 20:15:59 phatsphere has joined
2492 2011-07-10 20:16:46 <justmoon> makomk, awesome gj!
2493 2011-07-10 20:17:27 <luke-jr> makomk: nuts, I was hoping for a tool to recover private keys from public keys ☹
2494 2011-07-10 20:17:55 <makomk> luke-jr: somehow I don't think I'd be releasing that one publicly ;-)
2495 2011-07-10 20:18:05 <luke-jr> :p
2496 2011-07-10 20:18:41 wtfman is now known as awayman
2497 2011-07-10 20:18:50 <lyspooner> makomk: what's the easiest, fastest way to lose your wallet
2498 2011-07-10 20:18:57 <lyspooner> non-recoverable
2499 2011-07-10 20:19:06 <luke-jr> supermagnet?
2500 2011-07-10 20:19:19 <lyspooner> easiest?
2501 2011-07-10 20:19:21 Beccara has joined
2502 2011-07-10 20:19:50 <luke-jr> smash it?
2503 2011-07-10 20:19:53 <makomk> lyspooner: feck knows, but the first successful use of this was by someone that'd run shred on their wallet file first so that's out...
2504 2011-07-10 20:20:20 <unclemantis> ewal how large will my bitcoin client %appdata% directory get? Will it stay under a gig? will it stay under 2?
2505 2011-07-10 20:20:55 <unclemantis> right now it is currently just over 800MB
2506 2011-07-10 20:21:35 <sipa> it won't stay under any predefined value
2507 2011-07-10 20:21:58 <luke-jr> someday it will be TBs
2508 2011-07-10 20:22:06 <unclemantis> luke-jr ???
2509 2011-07-10 20:22:19 <unclemantis> that is pretty liducrist
2510 2011-07-10 20:22:29 <luke-jr> hopefully we have YB disks by then
2511 2011-07-10 20:22:53 <sipa> i think it's reasonable that we one day reach a block chain of 1 TB
2512 2011-07-10 20:23:08 <sipa> i doubt you'll still be running a full node by then, though
2513 2011-07-10 20:23:24 <unclemantis> probably
2514 2011-07-10 20:24:15 <luke-jr> I think the absolute maximum is 2 EB
2515 2011-07-10 20:24:26 <unclemantis> if i plug a usb drive in that has my appdata on it that has been offline for a week. How fast can I be able to plug it in, spend money and unmount it? Do i have to wait until it is up to date before i can do anything?>
2516 2011-07-10 20:24:36 <unclemantis> what is an EB?
2517 2011-07-10 20:24:38 <luke-jr> and that's if every Satoshi gets split down to a single txn each
2518 2011-07-10 20:24:40 <unclemantis> wait, never mind
2519 2011-07-10 20:24:44 <luke-jr> exabyte
2520 2011-07-10 20:25:06 <sipa> unclemantis: you can do spends immediately
2521 2011-07-10 20:25:24 <sipa> you won't see any confirmations before it catches up
2522 2011-07-10 20:25:25 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2523 2011-07-10 20:25:49 <unclemantis> OK
2524 2011-07-10 20:26:21 <unclemantis> If i am going to use the USB drive for my wallet I should only use that as my live wallet and back up just the wallet.dat somewhere safe for savings. right?
2525 2011-07-10 20:26:38 <sipa> yes
2526 2011-07-10 20:26:49 <enquirer> but you should be sure that other nodes got your transaction
2527 2011-07-10 20:26:50 <unclemantis> it would not make much sence to have a live wallet appdata directory on my C drive and on my USB drive. It is one or the other
2528 2011-07-10 20:27:39 <unclemantis> unless I am spending bitcoin I don't need to have the client running all the time, right?
2529 2011-07-10 20:27:42 <enquirer> so you should wait until block chain downloads and you see 1/unconfirmed
2530 2011-07-10 20:28:00 <enquirer> or look into debug.log and try to figure out )
2531 2011-07-10 20:28:11 <sipa> just double-click on the tx after send it
2532 2011-07-10 20:28:18 <sipa> it will tell you to how many nodes it was relayed
2533 2011-07-10 20:28:29 * unclemantis is trying to figure out which one to get so that the blockchain doesn't run out of room anytime soon https://store.ironkey.com/basic
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2536 2011-07-10 20:33:26 <gmaxwell> unclemantis: Why do you care about putting the blockchain on a usb stick?
2537 2011-07-10 20:34:48 ThomasV has joined
2538 2011-07-10 20:35:02 <unclemantis> so i can use it where every i go
2539 2011-07-10 20:35:09 <unclemantis> look a leather wallet and paper money :)
2540 2011-07-10 20:35:18 <unclemantis> unless you have a better idea
2541 2011-07-10 20:36:51 <enquirer> better buy bitbills
2542 2011-07-10 20:37:10 <unclemantis> i see
2543 2011-07-10 20:37:15 <gmaxwell> unclemantis: Thats an excellent way to lose all your money, any one of the many machines you use has a trojan and you're toast.
2544 2011-07-10 20:37:21 <unclemantis> can't i make my own bitbills?
2545 2011-07-10 20:37:38 <enquirer> i thnk you can
2546 2011-07-10 20:37:44 <gmaxwell> You could, sure.
2547 2011-07-10 20:37:55 <sipa> just export your private key(s), and print them on paper
2548 2011-07-10 20:38:01 <gmaxwell> Use a web wallet for that mobile usage.
2549 2011-07-10 20:38:30 <gmaxwell> sipa: doing that doesn't solve the issue of the remote machines not having bitcoin. A web wallet does.
2550 2011-07-10 20:38:56 <enquirer> sign it and we have bitchecks
2551 2011-07-10 20:39:03 <unclemantis> so use a web wallet. Ok. So use my client as my bank and just transfer what i need to my web wallet?
2552 2011-07-10 20:39:25 <gmaxwell> Thats what I'd do if I cared much about bitcoin-on-the-go
2553 2011-07-10 20:39:28 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2554 2011-07-10 20:39:52 <gmaxwell> (what I do is just have a wallet on a SSH accessible host that I can ssh into to spend from)
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2563 2011-07-10 20:49:47 <unclemantis> gmaxwell so have a usbdrive with a ssh client for windows and linux and have my login key stored too and connect to my server that is in a safe and locked down location?
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2565 2011-07-10 20:52:06 <gmaxwell> Yes. It would also be advisable to not keep all your btc online, only what you may need access to soon.
2566 2011-07-10 20:52:30 <unclemantis> like a real wallet :)
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2570 2011-07-10 20:56:28 <phantomcircuit> unclemantis, crazy right
2571 2011-07-10 20:56:30 <phantomcircuit> :P
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2576 2011-07-10 20:58:15 <b4epoche> unclemantis:  my bitcoin front end exports your priv keys to QR codes
2577 2011-07-10 20:58:48 <b4epoche> feel free to steal my testnet coins:  http://snapplr.com/6xpj
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2593 2011-07-10 21:18:00 <diki> i gotta ask
2594 2011-07-10 21:18:09 <diki> does bitcoin check the getwork you send back
2595 2011-07-10 21:18:20 <diki> i.e if it originated from that client?
2596 2011-07-10 21:18:51 <diki> you get work from bitcoin client A but send it to client B
2597 2011-07-10 21:19:29 <phantomcircuit> huh
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2599 2011-07-10 21:19:52 <justmoon> diki, client B won't have that merkle root cached so he can't reconstruct the transactions and will reject the work
2600 2011-07-10 21:20:11 <diki> i hope you got me right
2601 2011-07-10 21:20:27 <diki> miner requests work from client A, but sends the SOLVED work to client B
2602 2011-07-10 21:20:31 <justmoon> yes
2603 2011-07-10 21:20:41 <justmoon> the work doesn't contain the full block, only the header
2604 2011-07-10 21:20:41 <sipa> getwork results are not full blocks
2605 2011-07-10 21:20:51 <justmoon> client b doesn't have the rest of the block
2606 2011-07-10 21:20:57 <justmoon> so the work's useless to it
2607 2011-07-10 21:20:59 <sipa> it needs information stored by the client that created it to complete it back to a full block
2608 2011-07-10 21:21:00 <UukGoblin> hrm, the 0.3.24 (and perhaps earlier) versions have issues on slightly older distros (e.g. helena mint) - GLIBC_2.11 isn't found, there's only libc 2.10 there
2609 2011-07-10 21:21:18 <diki> so it wont work?
2610 2011-07-10 21:21:22 <UukGoblin> yeah
2611 2011-07-10 21:21:26 <justmoon> diki no
2612 2011-07-10 21:21:31 <justmoon> it wont
2613 2011-07-10 21:21:37 <justmoon> ever
2614 2011-07-10 21:21:43 <justmoon> :)
2615 2011-07-10 21:23:07 <IO-> when you run pushpoold , with -D2 , and it doesn't initialize and there is nothing in the log and no obvious reason, how to you troubleshoot pushpoold ?
2616 2011-07-10 21:23:22 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2617 2011-07-10 21:23:30 <diki> dont run it with --debug or --stderr
2618 2011-07-10 21:23:36 <diki> then check the system logs
2619 2011-07-10 21:23:42 <diki> the error is there
2620 2011-07-10 21:23:45 <diki> i guarantee
2621 2011-07-10 21:23:53 cut has quit (Quit: leaving)
2622 2011-07-10 21:23:57 <IO-> ya i'm watching those
2623 2011-07-10 21:24:57 <diki> common reasons it doesnt initalize is if it can't connect to bitcoin,mysql(or prefered engine) is not running
2624 2011-07-10 21:25:04 <diki> or the pid file cannot be made
2625 2011-07-10 21:25:11 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2626 2011-07-10 21:25:20 <diki> or the config file is missing
2627 2011-07-10 21:25:41 cut has joined
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2631 2011-07-10 21:27:51 <diki> dif you fix it?
2632 2011-07-10 21:28:54 <IO-> ya got it! thanks, the mysql user couldn't login, needed to give it access from the new pool's IP
2633 2011-07-10 21:31:41 sytse has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2634 2011-07-10 21:33:25 <diki> you making a pool?
2635 2011-07-10 21:33:51 <IO-> whole cluster
2636 2011-07-10 21:34:27 <IO-> 2 pool servers load balanced, 3 bitcoind servers in hub mode, 2 web servers load balanced, and a cluster of 5 SQL servers
2637 2011-07-10 21:34:42 <IO-> active/passive firewall+load balancer cluster to
2638 2011-07-10 21:34:52 <IO-> I can reboot a firewall and the miners dont even notice
2639 2011-07-10 21:35:12 <diki> good luck, pushpool will be at it's limit when each instance reaches 500 ghash/s
2640 2011-07-10 21:35:13 <denisx> nice
2641 2011-07-10 21:35:23 <IO-> thats ok
2642 2011-07-10 21:35:37 <IO-> i can addd up to 10 more pushpool servers without adding anymore hardware
2643 2011-07-10 21:35:37 <diki> not to mention that little limit in it that might start causing dropped connection in near future
2644 2011-07-10 21:35:47 <diki> but that's not a whole lot confirmed so...
2645 2011-07-10 21:35:52 <diki> dont be bothered by it
2646 2011-07-10 21:35:58 <IO-> thats ok to, the load balancer can limit the # of connections per backend pool server
2647 2011-07-10 21:36:17 kluge has joined
2648 2011-07-10 21:36:23 <denisx> and you expect to get all the money back?
2649 2011-07-10 21:36:37 <IO-> i had the hardware just sitting around doing nothing
2650 2011-07-10 21:37:13 <IO-> its all at a colo to, so i have redundant bandwidth
2651 2011-07-10 21:38:29 freakazoid has joined
2652 2011-07-10 21:39:34 <IO-> my goal is a pool that never goes down
2653 2011-07-10 21:39:42 <IO-> i can reboot 1/2 the servers and miners aren't effected
2654 2011-07-10 21:40:19 <diki> be prepared for ddos
2655 2011-07-10 21:40:23 <diki> every pool gets it
2656 2011-07-10 21:40:26 <diki> once in a while
2657 2011-07-10 21:40:38 <diki> and if deepbit went down...
2658 2011-07-10 21:40:41 <IO-> thats my only worry
2659 2011-07-10 21:41:04 <IO-> the LB has ddos protection but if they flood my upstreams pipe there isn't much i can do but get a redirection service
2660 2011-07-10 21:41:18 <IO-> i already have a quote for $300 a month for a small ddos protection plan
2661 2011-07-10 21:42:40 <IO-> a ddos attack is a big problem for everyone
2662 2011-07-10 21:43:11 <diki> all you need to do is get the person's ip
2663 2011-07-10 21:43:18 <diki> and WE start ddosing him
2664 2011-07-10 21:43:38 <denisx> diki: what do you think stands the first D for?
2665 2011-07-10 21:43:50 <diki> denial?
2666 2011-07-10 21:43:54 <IO-> even if we had it, and they wheren't behind a proxy or vpn, we'd just knock their own connection off. the zombies would just keep on going
2667 2011-07-10 21:44:03 <IO-> distributed
2668 2011-07-10 21:44:03 <denisx> diki: no, thats the second
2669 2011-07-10 21:44:11 <diki> right
2670 2011-07-10 21:44:25 <diki> then get all the ips
2671 2011-07-10 21:44:26 <IO-> 100000's of zombie/virus computers sending a small amount of packets
2672 2011-07-10 21:44:33 Fireball has joined
2673 2011-07-10 21:44:37 <diki> then go buy that google 1gb internet or whatever
2674 2011-07-10 21:44:41 <diki> sit back and relax
2675 2011-07-10 21:44:44 <IO-> wouldn't that be wonderful
2676 2011-07-10 21:44:48 <diki> 1 gigabit
2677 2011-07-10 21:44:52 <IO-> gives me wood thinkin about it
2678 2011-07-10 21:45:22 <IO-> getting a headache thinkin about writing the frontend, i hate web programming
2679 2011-07-10 21:45:30 <IO-> i'm more of a network and system engineer kinda guy
2680 2011-07-10 21:46:06 <diki> i also started with the frontend
2681 2011-07-10 21:46:19 <diki> it's indeed more than what i thought it would be
2682 2011-07-10 21:46:24 <diki> i thought it would be easy
2683 2011-07-10 21:46:28 <diki> i was dead wrong
2684 2011-07-10 21:46:29 sytse has joined
2685 2011-07-10 21:46:33 <denisx> and it will not end
2686 2011-07-10 21:46:44 <IO-> ever
2687 2011-07-10 21:46:54 cryptocnt has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2688 2011-07-10 21:46:55 <IO-> its like inviting life-cancer
2689 2011-07-10 21:46:56 <IO-> ugh
2690 2011-07-10 21:47:25 <diki> speaking of systems
2691 2011-07-10 21:47:33 <IO-> wish i had help
2692 2011-07-10 21:47:38 <diki> a friend of mine has a 10 year old computer with an AMD duron in it
2693 2011-07-10 21:47:53 <diki> his HDD is a maxtor 20GB or sumtin and it has over 700 bad sectors
2694 2011-07-10 21:48:02 <diki> i was at his apartment a few days ago
2695 2011-07-10 21:48:20 <diki> he complained that while his pc did reboot and/or freeze, it was ok for a month
2696 2011-07-10 21:48:33 <diki> i decided to touch the cooler to see if it was working....and his pc insta freezed
2697 2011-07-10 21:48:40 <diki> beeng freezing and rebooting ever since
2698 2011-07-10 21:48:54 <diki> the bsod says win32k.sys
2699 2011-07-10 21:49:03 <IO-> thats what you get for even touching an old box like that
2700 2011-07-10 21:49:07 <IO-> and he'll blame you for it
2701 2011-07-10 21:49:25 <UukGoblin> yeah bitcoin 0.3.24 doesn't work on slax because of the glibc
2702 2011-07-10 21:49:26 <diki> the only thing i touched slightly was his molex cable for his cd drive
2703 2011-07-10 21:49:28 <diki> and boom
2704 2011-07-10 21:49:47 <IO-> trying to use cent5.X is a real bitch because of old glibc also
2705 2011-07-10 21:50:01 <IO-> i wish cent6 was out and stable already
2706 2011-07-10 21:50:09 <IO-> i have to use ubuntu for pool servers
2707 2011-07-10 21:50:29 <UukGoblin> well imho if bitcoin is released as static binaries, it should be compiled against older glibc
2708 2011-07-10 21:50:58 <IO-> the web cluster is working great, as i refresh it points me to new web host every once in a while, and if one goes down i dont even notice
2709 2011-07-10 21:51:25 <UukGoblin> i.e. not the bleeding edge that's in ubuntu
2710 2011-07-10 21:51:33 dedeibel has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2711 2011-07-10 21:51:35 <IO-> thats one thing windows has, I can run win16 apps from te windows 95 days
2712 2011-07-10 21:51:57 <IO-> costs a lot for that kinda backwards compatibility though
2713 2011-07-10 21:52:10 <IO-> if apple can cut ties and move forward MS can to
2714 2011-07-10 21:52:16 <IO-> its better in the long run
2715 2011-07-10 21:52:40 <UukGoblin> tbh, they don't work very well
2716 2011-07-10 21:52:50 <UukGoblin> on windows 95, you could run dos apps easily
2717 2011-07-10 21:53:27 <IO-> i need a limited ddos http stress test soon. i need to know how much i can handle to set the LB ddos limits
2718 2011-07-10 21:54:33 <UukGoblin> ixia is quite good for that, but you probably can't afford it ;-]
2719 2011-07-10 21:54:59 <diki> is it normal to get mentally exhausted when dealing with code?
2720 2011-07-10 21:55:17 <sipa> yes
2721 2011-07-10 21:55:26 <IO-> i want to outsource it
2722 2011-07-10 21:55:31 <IO-> yes
2723 2011-07-10 21:55:45 <IO-> i worked 35 hours straight getting me cluster up and running
2724 2011-07-10 21:55:46 <prof7bit> the "bleeding edge" problem is very strong in the bitcoin development. commonly agreed DO's and DONT's end experience of generations software developers are ignored.
2725 2011-07-10 21:55:54 <IO-> passed out at 5am before the sun came up
2726 2011-07-10 21:56:05 * diki doesnt like the sun
2727 2011-07-10 21:56:11 <diki> i can barely see when its up
2728 2011-07-10 21:56:18 <prof7bit> s/end/and
2729 2011-07-10 21:56:24 <IO-> went out on a date to see the boss movie and now i'm back
2730 2011-07-10 21:56:32 <prof7bit> s/developers/development
2731 2011-07-10 21:56:41 <IO-> developers developers developers developers developers
2732 2011-07-10 21:56:47 <IO-> *throws a chair*
2733 2011-07-10 21:56:52 <sipa> prof7bit: talking about satoshi's client code?
2734 2011-07-10 21:56:57 <UukGoblin> is there a bug tracker for bitcoin?
2735 2011-07-10 21:56:58 <diki> boss movie?
2736 2011-07-10 21:56:59 <prof7bit> yes
2737 2011-07-10 21:57:38 <sipa> there is large consensus that code isn't particularly high standards
2738 2011-07-10 21:57:44 <prof7bit> wx 2.9 for example when 2.8 was stable for example
2739 2011-07-10 21:58:35 <UukGoblin> hrm, bitcoin could seriously use a bug tracker
2740 2011-07-10 21:58:41 <prof7bit> it shouldn't have been written in C++ anyways.
2741 2011-07-10 21:58:53 <prof7bit> the reference implementation
2742 2011-07-10 21:58:58 <UukGoblin> C++ is OK
2743 2011-07-10 21:59:05 josephholsten has joined
2744 2011-07-10 21:59:08 <UukGoblin> what would you rather have it written in? C?
2745 2011-07-10 21:59:09 <sipa> i don't think C++ is a problem
2746 2011-07-10 21:59:11 <prof7bit> not particularly good for prototyping
2747 2011-07-10 21:59:18 <sipa> wx2.9 is definitely a bad choice
2748 2011-07-10 21:59:27 <prof7bit> and easy compact self documenting code
2749 2011-07-10 21:59:29 <sipa> but we're moving away from wx entirely soon, probably
2750 2011-07-10 21:59:56 <diki> using what?
2751 2011-07-10 22:00:00 <sipa> UukGoblin: github has a bug tracker
2752 2011-07-10 22:00:00 <prof7bit> wx is not a problem. only if one does not know how to use it properly
2753 2011-07-10 22:00:18 <UukGoblin> sipa, ah, good point
2754 2011-07-10 22:00:20 <sipa> wx2.9 is a problem
2755 2011-07-10 22:00:44 <skEwb> why? its not hard to install the libs
2756 2011-07-10 22:00:47 <prof7bit> but wx <--> qt is a somehow religious discusson (like vi vs. emacs)
2757 2011-07-10 22:01:01 <UukGoblin> 2.9 isn't on any distros
2758 2011-07-10 22:01:12 <UukGoblin> therefore it's next to impossible to package bitcoin
2759 2011-07-10 22:01:15 <sipa> skEwb: it's impossible to get programs statically linked with gui libs in package reposotories
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2763 2011-07-10 22:01:32 <sipa> and as wx2.9 is a dev release, it is not in those repositories separately
2764 2011-07-10 22:01:32 <prof7bit> link against 2.8 and all problems are gone
2765 2011-07-10 22:01:43 wirehead has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2766 2011-07-10 22:01:56 <skEwb> LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib put that in your .bashrc or compile with an option where the libs are exactly..
2767 2011-07-10 22:02:05 <skEwb> it hasn't failed me yet
2768 2011-07-10 22:02:06 <UukGoblin> prof7bit, except that it won't compile with 2.8
2769 2011-07-10 22:02:10 <prof7bit> yes
2770 2011-07-10 22:02:10 <sipa> prof7bit: yes, there is a pull req for that, but it's not nice, and since we're moving to qt soon anyway
2771 2011-07-10 22:02:22 <sipa> skEwb: but the libraries are not available
2772 2011-07-10 22:02:57 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2773 2011-07-10 22:03:48 <prof7bit> and thats the problem. before starting a new poject that should be used on more than 3 computers it is usually a good idea to research which versions of libs are used and available on the average end user machine and program against that common denominator.
2774 2011-07-10 22:04:04 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2775 2011-07-10 22:04:46 <sipa> i don't think satoshi ever intended this version to be actually used mainstream
2776 2011-07-10 22:05:02 <luke-jr> XD
2777 2011-07-10 22:05:04 <sipa> a lot of it looks like it was just a first attempt, with several parts never implemented
2778 2011-07-10 22:05:14 <luke-jr> I think I have a bugfix. Could I get it reviewed?
2779 2011-07-10 22:05:18 <prof7bit> for TorChat I am requiring python >=2.5 and wx >=2.6, everything more bleeding edge would cause problems with my users
2780 2011-07-10 22:05:45 <BlueMatt> sipa: oh btw, where are you with the fee recommendation, or does that need done?
2781 2011-07-10 22:05:47 <prof7bit> some of them use debian
2782 2011-07-10 22:05:58 <prof7bit> where everything is 3 years old
2783 2011-07-10 22:06:06 <luke-jr> prof7bit: even Debian stable has Python 3.1
2784 2011-07-10 22:06:32 <prof7bit> maybe i can now update to python 2.7 and wx 2.8
2785 2011-07-10 22:06:35 <diki> ;;bc,stats
2786 2011-07-10 22:06:37 <sipa> luke-jr: i'll have a look if you want
2787 2011-07-10 22:06:43 <sipa> BlueMatt: not far enough
2788 2011-07-10 22:06:43 <gribble> Current Blocks: 135660 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 1427 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes, and 5 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1579003.46471890
2789 2011-07-10 22:06:47 <luke-jr> prof7bit: Python 2.7 code isn't compatible with 3.1
2790 2011-07-10 22:06:52 pogden has joined
2791 2011-07-10 22:07:03 <prof7bit> but it doesn't really give me any features that i dont have with the old versions
2792 2011-07-10 22:07:11 <prof7bit> i know.
2793 2011-07-10 22:07:14 <luke-jr> prof7bit: the old versions are being phased out I think
2794 2011-07-10 22:07:17 <luke-jr> if not already, soon
2795 2011-07-10 22:07:23 <luke-jr> so new projects should be 3.x
2796 2011-07-10 22:07:39 <prof7bit> it will stay 2.x for a long time. python 2.7 is here to stay a while.
2797 2011-07-10 22:07:42 suriv has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2798 2011-07-10 22:07:42 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2799 2011-07-10 22:08:24 <luke-jr> prof7bit: IMO, the newest version available on both RHEL and Debian stable is ideal for new stuff
2800 2011-07-10 22:08:26 <prof7bit> and before that i might rewite it in FPC/Lazarus
2801 2011-07-10 22:08:28 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2802 2011-07-10 22:08:53 <prof7bit> which will free me from all dependency hell
2803 2011-07-10 22:09:12 <prof7bit> one small static binary with no depencencies
2804 2011-07-10 22:09:45 <luke-jr> prof7bit: static binary = worse than dependency hell
2805 2011-07-10 22:09:55 <prof7bit> no. not in this case.
2806 2011-07-10 22:11:30 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr bugfix_getwork_newblk_race * r3aca38a47e87 bitcoind-personal/src/rpc.cpp: Bugfix: If a new block is received while creating our new work, the work ... http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git/commitdiff/3aca38a47e87ee65101685dd189241bf4d948034
2807 2011-07-10 22:11:35 <luke-jr> sipa: ^
2808 2011-07-10 22:13:19 gut4 has joined
2809 2011-07-10 22:14:37 <diki> ur new work, the work ... <- the work what?
2810 2011-07-10 22:15:06 <justmoon> diki: click the link
2811 2011-07-10 22:15:56 <sipa> luke-jr: you're trying to prevent a race condition where pindexBest is modified during the processing of a getwork()'s result/
2812 2011-07-10 22:16:02 <sipa> seems correct to me
2813 2011-07-10 22:16:13 <luke-jr> sipa: but is the bug really there?
2814 2011-07-10 22:16:43 <sipa> there is no critical section around it that prevents updates to pindexBest
2815 2011-07-10 22:19:27 tildeleb has joined
2816 2011-07-10 22:21:43 TheZimm has joined
2817 2011-07-10 22:21:50 <luke-jr> sipa: reason for all this is, we're seeing longpoll results with the old work in it ;)
2818 2011-07-10 22:22:11 suriv has joined
2819 2011-07-10 22:22:15 <sipa> but what do you want to happen
2820 2011-07-10 22:22:18 <denisx> luke-jr: I asked you about it already, but did not answer
2821 2011-07-10 22:22:22 traviscj_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2822 2011-07-10 22:22:24 <luke-jr> it's supposed to deliver *new* work ;p
2823 2011-07-10 22:22:36 <luke-jr> ie, based on the block that was just discovered
2824 2011-07-10 22:22:45 <denisx> luke-jr: the pollpidfile code fires too early
2825 2011-07-10 22:22:52 gut4 has quit (Quit: gut4)
2826 2011-07-10 22:22:58 traviscj has joined
2827 2011-07-10 22:23:06 <luke-jr> denisx: I fixed that part already, before
2828 2011-07-10 22:23:53 huk has quit ()
2829 2011-07-10 22:24:39 gut4 has joined
2830 2011-07-10 22:25:29 <sipa> luke-jr: you could consider putting a critical section around it
2831 2011-07-10 22:25:43 <luke-jr> sipa: that would cause problems for me :p
2832 2011-07-10 22:25:55 <sipa> yes, there may be performance issues their
2833 2011-07-10 22:26:17 <sipa> there
2834 2011-07-10 22:26:27 <luke-jr> this way, if it does hit a race, it just does a little more work
2835 2011-07-10 22:26:49 <sipa> btw, in this case, if pindexBest is different from pindexMyBest at the end, i think you can just return false, no?
2836 2011-07-10 22:28:32 <luke-jr> no?
2837 2011-07-10 22:28:37 <luke-jr> maybe do it over
2838 2011-07-10 22:28:54 gut4 has quit (Client Quit)
2839 2011-07-10 22:31:11 <luke-jr> reasonably implementing do-over would require the threaded_rpc branch XD
2840 2011-07-10 22:31:50 <sipa> i'm just wondering - if pindexBest does change, it means the submission was slightly too late
2841 2011-07-10 22:33:56 ThomasV has joined
2842 2011-07-10 22:34:22 <luke-jr> sipa: this isn't submission code
2843 2011-07-10 22:34:27 <luke-jr> sipa: this is getting work
2844 2011-07-10 22:35:30 <denisx> luke-jr: but why does it matter, wouln't pushpoold get the signal for the new block anyway?
2845 2011-07-10 22:35:30 <sipa> right, but at the end of that piece of code, if pindexBest changed, you've essentially given out stale work
2846 2011-07-10 22:35:34 <denisx> and get it  then?
2847 2011-07-10 22:36:46 <sipa> the real solution is a readers/writers-lock, many threads are allowed to read pindexBest, but as long as at least one is reading, it cannot be written to
2848 2011-07-10 22:42:47 Fireball has quit (Quit: ROS is the power.)
2849 2011-07-10 22:43:12 kokjo has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2850 2011-07-10 22:51:43 phatsphere has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2851 2011-07-10 22:52:27 <ThomasV> MagicalTux: could you install Extension:Google maps on your wiki ?
2852 2011-07-10 22:54:47 <MagicalTux> ThomasV: shouldn't be a problem, send me the link to meta on mark@tibanne.com
2853 2011-07-10 22:54:56 magn3ts has joined
2854 2011-07-10 22:56:34 <ThomasV> MagicalTux: done
2855 2011-07-10 22:57:18 <ThomasV> I would like to setup a map of bitcoin accepting brick-and-mortar shops
2856 2011-07-10 22:58:04 Teslah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2857 2011-07-10 22:58:32 <MagicalTux> :p
2858 2011-07-10 22:58:52 <MagicalTux> ThomasV: for information here at Mt.Gox we are working on a bitcoin-accepting PoS
2859 2011-07-10 22:58:55 <denisx> add the burger in berlin where you can pay with BTC even to a good ratio
2860 2011-07-10 22:59:39 <Happy0> confusing o is confusing :|
2861 2011-07-10 22:59:42 <Happy0> :: tilts head :: :P
2862 2011-07-10 22:59:47 <ThomasV> denisx: where is it ?
2863 2011-07-10 22:59:50 <cosurgi> luke-jr: I would prefer to see the volume in decimal. is there any chance for that?
2864 2011-07-10 22:59:50 <Happy0> ratio... ratiO
2865 2011-07-10 22:59:54 <Happy0> how did you do that, denisx? :o
2866 2011-07-10 23:00:03 <Happy0> rati_o_
2867 2011-07-10 23:00:11 <cosurgi> luke-jr: or maybe there is some other channel with another bot, where I could go instead?
2868 2011-07-10 23:00:16 <luke-jr> cosurgi: it shows both
2869 2011-07-10 23:00:40 <cosurgi> omg, I'm blind.
2870 2011-07-10 23:00:42 <denisx> ThomasV: in berlin kreuzberg, graefestr. 77, it is called room77
2871 2011-07-10 23:00:45 <cosurgi> let me look again.
2872 2011-07-10 23:00:56 <ThomasV> denisx: does it have a url ?
2873 2011-07-10 23:00:58 <cosurgi> luke-jr: and yes, I see just boxes drawn with dashed lines
2874 2011-07-10 23:01:11 <luke-jr> cosurgi: the left side is BTC
2875 2011-07-10 23:01:14 <redshark1802> thx denisx for the hint, i'm in berlin in august :)
2876 2011-07-10 23:01:25 <denisx> redshark1802: for the camp?
2877 2011-07-10 23:01:48 <redshark1802> which camp?
2878 2011-07-10 23:01:54 <cosurgi> "trade MtGox:          0.592… BTC @   14.80       MTGUSD |      388.73䇄両 TBC @    0.0096993… MTGUSD"
2879 2011-07-10 23:02:06 <cosurgi> means that 0.592 BTC == 388.73 TBC ?
2880 2011-07-10 23:02:21 <luke-jr> yes
2881 2011-07-10 23:02:47 <luke-jr> well, 388.73 TBC
2882 2011-07-10 23:02:55 <denisx> redshark1802: chaos communication camp
2883 2011-07-10 23:02:56 josephholsten has quit (Quit: josephholsten)
2884 2011-07-10 23:03:04 <cosurgi> luke-jr: I get it! thanks :)
2885 2011-07-10 23:03:08 <luke-jr> cosurgi: but if you just want BTC, you can ignore the TBC side
2886 2011-07-10 23:03:14 <cosurgi> ok
2887 2011-07-10 23:03:33 <redshark1802> no work related, but i'll probably drop by
2888 2011-07-10 23:03:33 <denisx> redshark1802: http://events.ccc.de/camp/2011/
2889 2011-07-10 23:03:43 <cosurgi> luke-jr: it's clear now. sorry for bothering you
2890 2011-07-10 23:03:49 <luke-jr> np
2891 2011-07-10 23:06:40 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2892 2011-07-10 23:07:05 <redshark1802> i looking forward to the 28c3, it's going to be fun
2893 2011-07-10 23:07:43 <redshark1802> *i'm
2894 2011-07-10 23:07:53 <denisx> redshark1802: but thats in december
2895 2011-07-10 23:08:00 nhodges has joined
2896 2011-07-10 23:08:00 <redshark1802> yeah i know
2897 2011-07-10 23:08:52 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2898 2011-07-10 23:08:53 <redshark1802> last year was great. sitting in this big room and watching that the ps3 was fully hacked xD
2899 2011-07-10 23:09:14 <redshark1802> just awesome
2900 2011-07-10 23:12:31 Teslah has joined
2901 2011-07-10 23:13:57 <luke-jr> cosurgi: would it be clearer if I replaced the | with = ?
2902 2011-07-10 23:14:11 <Joric> how about moving from berkeley db to sqlite? would be easier to handle
2903 2011-07-10 23:17:03 suriv has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2904 2011-07-10 23:18:17 <Joric> i'm reading bitcointools code, wallet format is a real pita
2905 2011-07-10 23:18:31 suriv has joined
2906 2011-07-10 23:19:02 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: ya it should be & ~ not just &
2907 2011-07-10 23:19:05 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: ^
2908 2011-07-10 23:19:21 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: is the current version correct?
2909 2011-07-10 23:19:35 <jrmithdobbs> no i haven't updated been busy, let me update the branch
2910 2011-07-10 23:19:38 jgarzik has joined
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2913 2011-07-10 23:20:41 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: I did that
2914 2011-07-10 23:20:52 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: Im asking if the current version in the pull request is correct?
2915 2011-07-10 23:20:54 puhc has joined
2916 2011-07-10 23:20:55 <jrmithdobbs> oh, let me look
2917 2011-07-10 23:22:13 <jrmithdobbs> yup should be
2918 2011-07-10 23:22:37 <jrmithdobbs> wait no
2919 2011-07-10 23:22:46 <jrmithdobbs> it still needs the shift left
2920 2011-07-10 23:22:56 <ThomasV> MagicalTux: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Real_world_shops
2921 2011-07-10 23:23:10 <ThomasV> ^^should work once the extension is installed
2922 2011-07-10 23:23:25 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: see the pull request, i wrote test code for it
2923 2011-07-10 23:23:34 <ThomasV> "first we take manhattan, then we take berlin" :-)
2924 2011-07-10 23:23:37 <MagicalTux> ThomasV: maybe we should create a kml too
2925 2011-07-10 23:23:43 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: it should be & ~((PAGESIZE-1)<<1)
2926 2011-07-10 23:23:49 <jrmithdobbs> err <<1 then -1
2927 2011-07-10 23:23:56 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: k
2928 2011-07-10 23:23:57 <sipa> why <<1 ?
2929 2011-07-10 23:24:43 <ThomasV> maybe
2930 2011-07-10 23:25:01 <jrmithdobbs> because <<1 moves the bit left one then -1 turns off the bit it was shifted to and all the lower ones
2931 2011-07-10 23:25:19 <jrmithdobbs> err turns off the one it was shifted to and ON the lower ones
2932 2011-07-10 23:25:34 dr_win has joined
2933 2011-07-10 23:25:58 <sipa> if the page size is 4096 bytes
2934 2011-07-10 23:26:05 <ThomasV> MagicalTux: actually, when a map gets really populated, you need a sql table to display markers only at the requested region
2935 2011-07-10 23:26:10 <sipa> i want to mask out all bits present in the number 4095
2936 2011-07-10 23:26:11 <sipa> no?
2937 2011-07-10 23:26:26 <jrmithdobbs> one sec
2938 2011-07-10 23:26:27 <ThomasV> you dont want to download all the list
2939 2011-07-10 23:26:53 <jrmithdobbs> sorry catte attack
2940 2011-07-10 23:27:18 denisx has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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2944 2011-07-10 23:29:59 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2945 2011-07-10 23:30:04 <jrmithdobbs> sipa: trying to find the test code i used to test (I somehow left the ~ out of the final result for whatever reason)
2946 2011-07-10 23:30:20 yellowhat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2947 2011-07-10 23:31:05 yellowhat has joined
2948 2011-07-10 23:31:17 <upb> everwhere ive seen page align its done as &= ~(PAGE_SIZE - 1)
2949 2011-07-10 23:31:29 Blitzboom has joined
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2952 2011-07-10 23:31:31 <upb> which makes sense
2953 2011-07-10 23:31:39 <sipa> that's how i do it as well
2954 2011-07-10 23:32:37 <cosurgi> luke-jr: better with ==
2955 2011-07-10 23:32:44 <cosurgi> luke-jr: but, yes.
2956 2011-07-10 23:32:45 wirehead has joined
2957 2011-07-10 23:33:25 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2958 2011-07-10 23:34:08 <jrmithdobbs> ya you're right, mine sets it to a multiple of 2*pagesize basically, no idea what i was thinking
2959 2011-07-10 23:34:38 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: ya that code is right
2960 2011-07-10 23:35:03 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: ok good, thanks
2961 2011-07-10 23:39:48 moa7 has joined
2962 2011-07-10 23:40:52 <jrmithdobbs> ha, found the test code, i had it right there and actually copied the shift from one of the other implementations for no reason, makes sense
2963 2011-07-10 23:41:02 <jrmithdobbs> remind me not to write code while on conference calls ;p
2964 2011-07-10 23:41:53 Beremat has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2965 2011-07-10 23:44:21 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2966 2011-07-10 23:47:40 <IO-> i get distracted easily when i'm coding to
2967 2011-07-10 23:47:42 <IO-> its like I zone
2968 2011-07-10 23:47:50 <IO-> phone calls and music/tv fuck with me
2969 2011-07-10 23:48:07 <IO-> i can have phone calls and talk to them and not remember a word of it
2970 2011-07-10 23:48:29 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2971 2011-07-10 23:48:32 <IO-> i found a great mysql benchmark tool if anyone wants one
2972 2011-07-10 23:48:43 <IO-> small, fast, perl, threaded
2973 2011-07-10 23:50:01 falafell has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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2977 2011-07-10 23:56:43 underscor has joined
2978 2011-07-10 23:57:05 <sacarlson> I'm still looking for feed back on my article on a Alternate Chain Licensed Mining addition idea http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24209.msg347203#msg347203
2979 2011-07-10 23:59:31 sanchaz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)