1 2011-07-13 00:01:58 <gavinTAS> BlueMatt: cool, I somehow missed that comment reviewing diffs.
2 2011-07-13 00:02:58 <gavinTAS> nit: "are then be encrypted" crypter.h:22
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15 2011-07-13 00:08:08 <jgarzik> I'm pretty happy with the encryption code so far
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17 2011-07-13 00:08:30 <jgarzik> though I have a vague worry that there needs to be some significant messaging/docs for end users
18 2011-07-13 00:08:46 <lfm> No one has broken it yet?
19 2011-07-13 00:09:10 <jgarzik> I more worry about people doing dumb things and losing their money in the upgrade
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22 2011-07-13 00:09:58 <lfm> Ya, like how many times per day will we have people come on here and ask how to decode their wallets after they forgot their passphrase
23 2011-07-13 00:10:52 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: more popups can be added...
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27 2011-07-13 00:13:56 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I think a "wallet encryption howto" would make sense
28 2011-07-13 00:14:26 <BlueMatt> gavinTAS: updated
29 2011-07-13 00:14:38 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: thats why I wrote that whole README thing
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35 2011-07-13 00:20:12 <b4epoche_> I learned how to work with the OSX keychain so I can have the wallet password store there in the osx client... I assume someone can do the same for the Windows equiv
36 2011-07-13 00:20:17 stuhood has left ()
37 2011-07-13 00:20:42 <b4epoche_> and I assume Linux users are smart enough not to lose their password, or at least smart enough not to come in here and whine about it
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40 2011-07-13 00:23:44 <ThomasV> hello. I lost my mtgox password. It does not work anymore. it was qzei5ute9
41 2011-07-13 00:23:50 <WakiMiko_> lol
42 2011-07-13 00:24:03 <BlueMatt> ThomasV: not in here, go to #mtgox or pm magicaltux
43 2011-07-13 00:24:06 <WakiMiko_> you probably want to join #mtgox
44 2011-07-13 00:24:22 <WakiMiko_> and you should not tell your password to anyone, regardless of it working or not
45 2011-07-13 00:24:27 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: there is no windows equiv...
46 2011-07-13 00:24:29 <ThomasV> oh sorry, wrong login
47 2011-07-13 00:24:30 <ThomasV> BlueMatt: just kidding
48 2011-07-13 00:24:37 <BlueMatt> yea, thought so
49 2011-07-13 00:25:43 <WakiMiko_> bitcoin could have an actual help entry in the help menu, that opens a static html page in the defualt browser (or uses one of those help browser most DEs have), to explain the most import client features
50 2011-07-13 00:25:53 * ThomasV joins #bitcoin-early-adopters
51 2011-07-13 00:25:54 <WakiMiko_> ofc someone would have to write all that :P
52 2011-07-13 00:26:04 <BlueMatt> WakiMiko_: please, by all means write it :)
53 2011-07-13 00:26:08 <WakiMiko_> haha
54 2011-07-13 00:26:20 <BlueMatt> ThomasV: what is the minimum join-time for that?
55 2011-07-13 00:26:25 <WakiMiko_> maybe when my exams are done
56 2011-07-13 00:26:26 <ThomasV> lol
57 2011-07-13 00:26:35 <ThomasV> BlueMatt: you reached it
58 2011-07-13 00:26:37 <BlueMatt> ie when did you join?
59 2011-07-13 00:26:43 <BlueMatt> (the project)
60 2011-07-13 00:27:07 <ThomasV> uh, did I really join it ?
61 2011-07-13 00:27:13 kish_ has joined
62 2011-07-13 00:27:24 <BlueMatt> the bitcoin project, ie how long have you been here?
63 2011-07-13 00:27:31 <ThomasV> I do not develop the bitcoin software
64 2011-07-13 00:27:42 <BlueMatt> I dont care about development, I care about community
65 2011-07-13 00:27:48 <ThomasV> I registered on otc in december
66 2011-07-13 00:27:53 <BlueMatt> oh, ok
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69 2011-07-13 00:28:14 <ThomasV> I followed a bit before, but was not registered
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71 2011-07-13 00:28:36 <ThomasV> after the october slashdotting, I guess
72 2011-07-13 00:28:52 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
73 2011-07-13 00:28:56 <b4epoche_> BlueMatt: seriously? no keychain manager?
74 2011-07-13 00:29:21 <BlueMatt> b4epoche_: nope, that is specific to osx, gnome, kde? and maybe other linux wms
75 2011-07-13 00:29:28 <BlueMatt> but nothing like that in windows
76 2011-07-13 00:29:40 <BlueMatt> (or if it is, no one uses it that I have ever seen)
77 2011-07-13 00:29:50 <BlueMatt> actually, I take that back for gnome, I think there is one, but Im not sure
78 2011-07-13 00:30:03 <BlueMatt> kde I have nfc, but I think I recall seeing one at some point...
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80 2011-07-13 00:30:06 <b4epoche_> but they have to store internet passwords
81 2011-07-13 00:30:17 <BlueMatt> yes, ever browser does itself
82 2011-07-13 00:30:24 <BlueMatt> even chrome and ff do it on mac iirc
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84 2011-07-13 00:30:25 <b4epoche_> oh... nice
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86 2011-07-13 00:30:31 <BlueMatt> only safari does that manually
87 2011-07-13 00:30:43 <BlueMatt> s/manually/via keychain/
88 2011-07-13 00:30:44 <BlueMatt> afaik
89 2011-07-13 00:30:50 <b4epoche_> could be
90 2011-07-13 00:30:59 <freewil> BlueMatt: there is seahorse for gnome
91 2011-07-13 00:31:10 <BlueMatt> though its not encrypted so it doesnt matter what you use to store it...
92 2011-07-13 00:31:21 <BlueMatt> only some passwords are encrypted, website stuff, that isnt
93 2011-07-13 00:31:25 <lfm> gpg too
94 2011-07-13 00:31:38 <BlueMatt> lfm: not the same (at all)
95 2011-07-13 00:32:30 * b4epoche_ can't remember the password that unlocks the password that unlocks his wallet
96 2011-07-13 00:32:47 <BlueMatt> ...that might not be good...
97 2011-07-13 00:32:50 <ThomasV> b4epoche: it must be "toto"
98 2011-07-13 00:33:00 <ThomasV> or "root"
99 2011-07-13 00:33:05 <lfm> and there is some sort of key manager in gnome for wireless keys
100 2011-07-13 00:33:06 <BlueMatt> maybe toor
101 2011-07-13 00:33:23 <ThomasV> or perhaps "1337"
102 2011-07-13 00:33:33 <BlueMatt> lfm: I think network-manager and wicd handle that themselves
103 2011-07-13 00:33:39 <WakiMiko_> there is gnome-keyring, it stores ssh, gpg, wireless and a few other keys (like samba mounts etc)
104 2011-07-13 00:33:56 <BlueMatt> ah, thats what it was, knew there was something...
105 2011-07-13 00:34:35 <BlueMatt> oh well, better than windows ;)
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113 2011-07-13 00:40:30 <denisx> TheSeven: der jgarzik meinte letztens, dass work nicht aelter als 60 sekunden sein sollte
114 2011-07-13 00:40:42 <denisx> und ab 120 wird es dann abgelehnt
115 2011-07-13 00:40:42 <TheSeven> ja
116 2011-07-13 00:40:55 <denisx> TheSeven: also Du solltest Dich dann eher an die 60 halten
117 2011-07-13 00:41:01 <TheSeven> mein miner versucht im bereich zwischen 30-45 zu bleiben
118 2011-07-13 00:41:04 <denisx> ok
119 2011-07-13 00:41:13 <BlueMatt> why are you writing a miner?
120 2011-07-13 00:41:25 <TheSeven> aber das problem war dass nach long polls das kurzzeitig hochgeht, weil der miner schneller work kriegt als er es verarbeiten kann, wenn er mehrere pools hat
121 2011-07-13 00:41:44 <TheSeven> und dann warens manchmal knapp über 120
122 2011-07-13 00:41:45 <denisx> TheSeven: , did'nt notice we are in the dev channel, but found you here! ;)
123 2011-07-13 00:41:56 <TheSeven> ah
124 2011-07-13 00:42:19 estornudo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
125 2011-07-13 00:42:21 <TheSeven> anyway, it does now discard work that would grow older than ~90 seconds
126 2011-07-13 00:42:43 gim has quit (Quit: Leaving)
127 2011-07-13 00:42:52 <BlueMatt> dont we have enough miners?
128 2011-07-13 00:42:57 Ramen has left ()
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130 2011-07-13 00:43:48 <denisx> TheSeven: er meint Dich! ;)
131 2011-07-13 00:43:56 <BlueMatt> ja
132 2011-07-13 00:44:25 <TheSeven> well, not for the hardware i needed it for
133 2011-07-13 00:44:48 <BlueMatt> custom hardware?
134 2011-07-13 00:45:22 <WakiMiko_> toasters
135 2011-07-13 00:45:23 <TheSeven> yes :)
136 2011-07-13 00:45:24 <TheSeven> fpgas
137 2011-07-13 00:45:29 <denisx> can I use a .bitcoin folder generated with 03.24 with 0.3.23?
138 2011-07-13 00:45:30 <BlueMatt> nice
139 2011-07-13 00:45:36 <BlueMatt> denisx: yes
140 2011-07-13 00:45:40 <denisx> good
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142 2011-07-13 00:47:05 <denisx> can I change the number of connections without restarting bitcoind?
143 2011-07-13 00:47:11 <BlueMatt> no
144 2011-07-13 00:47:19 <lfm> unplug you modem
145 2011-07-13 00:47:54 <lfm> changes it to zero
146 2011-07-13 00:48:20 <denisx> lfm: there is no modem involved
147 2011-07-13 00:48:31 <lfm> ethernet?
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149 2011-07-13 00:48:41 <BlueMatt> put up a firewall
150 2011-07-13 00:49:14 <denisx> BlueMatt: it is firewalled already, I wanted to increase the number of outgoing connections
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153 2011-07-13 00:49:28 <lfm> cant increase em
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155 2011-07-13 00:49:32 <lianj> denisx: its defined in there source
156 2011-07-13 00:49:36 <lianj> *the
157 2011-07-13 00:49:36 <BlueMatt> no, you ahve to rebuild for that
158 2011-07-13 00:49:41 <denisx> lianj: I know
159 2011-07-13 00:49:46 <denisx> damn
160 2011-07-13 00:49:51 <lianj> so rebuild and restart then
161 2011-07-13 00:49:55 <lfm> there is -maxconnect switch, you have to restart
162 2011-07-13 00:50:12 freewil has joined
163 2011-07-13 00:50:25 <lfm> oh outgoin
164 2011-07-13 00:50:40 <lfm> -maxconnect limits incomming
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167 2011-07-13 00:59:58 <cuqa> sup. question regarding pushpool: disable X-Rollntime .. what is that feature?
168 2011-07-13 01:00:04 <denisx> ok, found it in net.cpp
169 2011-07-13 01:00:09 <cuqa> anyone can elaborate pls?
170 2011-07-13 01:00:59 <lfm> I think that allows or disallows miners to update the time stamp independantly
171 2011-07-13 01:02:15 <cuqa> mh k. ty
172 2011-07-13 01:02:41 <lfm> I can think of no reason to disallow it
173 2011-07-13 01:03:18 <cuqa> just read something about it in the forums
174 2011-07-13 01:04:08 <lfm> some pools historicly didn't support it, maybe still don't
175 2011-07-13 01:05:48 <forrestv> why doesn't bitcoin say that the next block can't be more than two hours ahead of the last block (or the median of the last 11?)
176 2011-07-13 01:05:48 Leo_II1 has joined
177 2011-07-13 01:05:49 <forrestv> instead of two hours ahead of now
178 2011-07-13 01:06:21 <lfm> forrestv: well if your time/date is set right, then it doesnt matter
179 2011-07-13 01:07:07 <forrestv> yeah, but it's simpler - block verification only depends on the last block, and right now attacks based on driving nodes' timestamps off to prevent block acceptance are possible
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185 2011-07-13 01:11:03 <lfm> forrestv: should be easy to change if it is really a problem
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187 2011-07-13 01:13:41 <lesh> hey, sorry if I'm intruding into wrong channel with this question: I implemented a bitcoin payment system for my site, and I'm wondering how scared should I be of double spending? how hard is to do that? and do people do it?
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190 2011-07-13 01:14:20 <lfm> lesh: well its very easy to do a zero confirmation double spend
191 2011-07-13 01:14:49 <lfm> I havnt heard of anyone actually trying
192 2011-07-13 01:15:17 <lesh> should the person modify the client for such a thing?
193 2011-07-13 01:15:28 <lesh> mybitcoin.com accepts 0 confirmation payments I believe
194 2011-07-13 01:15:29 <lfm> each confirmation will add to your security againt it
195 2011-07-13 01:15:32 <BlueMatt> realistically, if you make sure you have enough connections, just check that you have enough confirmations
196 2011-07-13 01:15:57 * Graet confirms that
197 2011-07-13 01:16:08 <lfm> lesh mybitcoin only acccepts it from other mybitcoin users. if it is outside then I think you need to wait
198 2011-07-13 01:16:18 <IO-> on a server with -hub=3 i can get over 120 p2p connections, with the stock bitcoind i can get about 60 with a port in the firewall forwarded
199 2011-07-13 01:16:34 <BlueMatt> IO-: NEVER, EVER, EVER USE THE HUB MODE PATCH
200 2011-07-13 01:16:37 <BlueMatt> PERIOD
201 2011-07-13 01:16:40 <IO-> no?
202 2011-07-13 01:16:43 <BlueMatt> NO
203 2011-07-13 01:16:51 <IO-> what is it breaking?
204 2011-07-13 01:17:07 <BlueMatt> its terrible for the network and offers you no advantage
205 2011-07-13 01:17:10 <IO-> its in the bitcoin4pool git fork by defauolt
206 2011-07-13 01:17:18 <IO-> oki'll kill it
207 2011-07-13 01:17:33 <BlueMatt> dont know who runs bitcoin4pools, but hub mode offers no advantage whatsoever
208 2011-07-13 01:17:48 <BlueMatt> s/runs/manages/
209 2011-07-13 01:18:14 <IO-> the theory I read on the forms was more connections == faster confirms
210 2011-07-13 01:18:17 <IO-> so that's BS ?
211 2011-07-13 01:18:25 <BlueMatt> absolutely
212 2011-07-13 01:18:34 <IO-> awesome, good to know!
213 2011-07-13 01:18:39 <BlueMatt> in a only very remotely theoretical way, yues
214 2011-07-13 01:18:43 <BlueMatt> realistically, not at al
215 2011-07-13 01:18:53 <lfm> IO-: with just 8 connections each it would still only take a few seconds to pass txn across the whole net
216 2011-07-13 01:18:56 <IO-> reality trumps theory every time
217 2011-07-13 01:19:27 <IO-> changing my pool servers now
218 2011-07-13 01:19:34 <lfm> so you might reduse 5 sec to 4
219 2011-07-13 01:20:04 <BlueMatt> luke has claimed that he got islanded once, but the solution isnt hub mode, its to addnode other high-availability and large-miner nodes
220 2011-07-13 01:20:05 <lesh> lfm: I don't think so, but I should confirm, it takes around 5 seconds for them to detect external payment
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222 2011-07-13 01:20:58 <IO-> is there a wiki page with HA nodes?
223 2011-07-13 01:21:08 <BlueMatt> there is the fallback node page
224 2011-07-13 01:21:14 <lfm> lesh ya, if there is a double spend they would have to reverse all dependant transactions.
225 2011-07-13 01:21:16 <IO-> thanks
226 2011-07-13 01:21:27 <BlueMatt> I would ask around though
227 2011-07-13 01:21:28 <IO-> found it
228 2011-07-13 01:21:39 <BlueMatt> ie ask luke for the eligius one, slush for his pool's one, etc
229 2011-07-13 01:21:46 <BlueMatt> as those are the ones you really want
230 2011-07-13 01:22:09 <BlueMatt> oh wait, slush has his on the fallback node page
231 2011-07-13 01:22:11 <cuqa> is it useful to have more p2p connections?
232 2011-07-13 01:22:20 <BlueMatt> no
233 2011-07-13 01:22:33 <BlueMatt> in a only very remotely theoretical way, yes
234 2011-07-13 01:22:40 <BlueMatt> realistically, not at all
235 2011-07-13 01:22:41 <lfm> cuqa: beyond the standard 8, not much that you could tell
236 2011-07-13 01:23:33 <[Tycho]> bitcoinpool once said that they got "islanded" - http://www.bitcoinpool.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4682#p4682
237 2011-07-13 01:23:45 <BlueMatt> luke claimed the same
238 2011-07-13 01:23:46 <[Tycho]> But this would be very strange.
239 2011-07-13 01:23:53 <BlueMatt> its possible, but just addnodeing works fine
240 2011-07-13 01:24:07 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
241 2011-07-13 01:24:12 <BlueMatt> speaking of which, [Tycho] why do you not release the ip of your nodes?
242 2011-07-13 01:24:21 <[Tycho]> At least they had a reason to decimate the number of invalids in their history :)
243 2011-07-13 01:24:31 <IO-> [Tycho]: What LB do you use for your pool servers? I'm playing around with building a private pool with HA clusters
244 2011-07-13 01:24:33 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt, I care about safety of my pool.
245 2011-07-13 01:24:36 <lfm> cuqa: It is usefull to allow incomming connections thru your router or allow upnp and that will tend to open up more connections but its mainly just allowing others to make their 8 connections that way
246 2011-07-13 01:24:43 <[Tycho]> What is "LB" ?
247 2011-07-13 01:24:48 <IO-> load balancer
248 2011-07-13 01:24:58 <[Tycho]> nginx
249 2011-07-13 01:25:00 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: that has nothing to do with it, your coin-holder probably shouldnt be on the p2p net itself, so it shouldnt matter
250 2011-07-13 01:25:25 <IO-> thanks
251 2011-07-13 01:25:25 <cuqa> okay. but I dont get shit lol
252 2011-07-13 01:25:36 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: if I were you (and Im not) I would do a public-facing node and one private connect-only-to-the-public-node node which holds my coins
253 2011-07-13 01:25:54 <cuqa> that bitcoin stuff is way beyond my level :[
254 2011-07-13 01:26:19 <lfm> cuqa: shit? do you have ANY connections?
255 2011-07-13 01:26:34 <[Tycho]> BlueMatt, of course I have different nodes. But I think it's better not to disclose them.
256 2011-07-13 01:26:39 <cuqa> nono, it was just a quesiton because someone mentioned that he got >120 connections through hub mode
257 2011-07-13 01:26:46 <moa7> if it is not more usefull to have more p2p connections why does the client download so many addresses?
258 2011-07-13 01:26:48 <cuqa> everything's fine
259 2011-07-13 01:27:09 <lfm> cuqa: ya he was just bragging, theres no point to such really
260 2011-07-13 01:27:20 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: I understand that, and you probably shouldnt release them publicly, but to people like slush/mtgox/etc you should probably be addnodeing them
261 2011-07-13 01:27:38 <BlueMatt> (well once addnode gets updated to keep connections alive instead of just one-off adding)
262 2011-07-13 01:27:45 <BlueMatt> speaking of which, I might go do that...
263 2011-07-13 01:28:26 <IO-> [Tycho]: do you use the stock bitcoind on your pool servers or do you have all your pool servers talking to 1 bitcoind on another server?
264 2011-07-13 01:28:43 <lfm> moa7: mainly in case of major net breakage, you have better chance of finding nodes if they were to become hard to connect, like the cases where major undersea cables have broke
265 2011-07-13 01:29:16 <IO-> lfm: I wasn't bragging I was asking if that helps make confirms come in faster or not
266 2011-07-13 01:29:18 <[Tycho]> IO-, I'm using modified bitcoind.
267 2011-07-13 01:29:22 <moa7> is there any limit to how many AddAddresses() the client will perform?
268 2011-07-13 01:29:25 <IO-> ok
269 2011-07-13 01:29:27 <lfm> io ok
270 2011-07-13 01:29:40 <moa7> or is there switch to limit?
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272 2011-07-13 01:29:49 <BlueMatt> IO-: bitcoin is no where near able to handle the load of a pool of miners
273 2011-07-13 01:29:49 <lfm> moa7: disk space limit would be all
274 2011-07-13 01:29:59 <BlueMatt> IO-: modified client is kind of the only option
275 2011-07-13 01:30:35 <lfm> moa7: see the size of addr.dat
276 2011-07-13 01:30:40 <BlueMatt> lol, most of the fallback node's connections are full
277 2011-07-13 01:31:04 <IO-> I'm reading a lot about that but I'm not sure what modified client and i'm not sure how many bitcoind's. I'm using patches from JoelKatz now
278 2011-07-13 01:31:05 <moa7> lfm: what about size of addr.dat?
279 2011-07-13 01:31:19 <lfm> moa7: thats where those addresses are stored
280 2011-07-13 01:31:34 <moa7> and I can limit that?
281 2011-07-13 01:31:58 <BlueMatt> IO-: most of those patches seem good, I havent reviewed them in-depth, but they seem reasonable and good upgrades. Aside from minor fixes, the only really important one for pools is the multi threaded rpc stuff
282 2011-07-13 01:31:59 <lfm> moa7: huh? no one said anything about limiting it. there is no need.
283 2011-07-13 01:32:32 <moa7> well i have the 8 connections i need and don't want 30,000 addresses downloaded unnecessarily
284 2011-07-13 01:32:44 <moa7> maybe 300 would be good.
285 2011-07-13 01:32:47 <IO-> From playing around I made a LB'ed cluster of 3 bitcoind's with the patches and round robined it. the pushpoold server(s) had too many problems. I had to move a bitcoind on to each pushpoold server and connect to 127.0.0.1
286 2011-07-13 01:32:57 <lfm> moa7: why not? dont worry about it. it doent hurt really
287 2011-07-13 01:33:13 <IO-> that was with the threaded RPC patches to, and the LB was in TCP mode
288 2011-07-13 01:33:19 <moa7> well notfor you but i have hardware/net limitations
289 2011-07-13 01:33:41 <moa7> i am worried or else i wouldn't be asking
290 2011-07-13 01:33:46 <lfm> moa7: ok stop bitcoin delete addr.dat and start it up again, solved
291 2011-07-13 01:34:09 <moa7> and it starts downloading addresses again .. how does that solve anything?
292 2011-07-13 01:34:26 <BlueMatt> moa7: are you on 0.3.24?
293 2011-07-13 01:34:29 <lfm> moa7: do that whenever it gets too big for you
294 2011-07-13 01:34:39 <IO-> the problem with that solution is multiple wallet.dats. so I'd have to automatically move all coins in the pool servers wallets to a central wallet that the web cluster can send auto and instant payments from
295 2011-07-13 01:34:53 <moa7> i want to stop downlaoding addresses is there a fix for this?!
296 2011-07-13 01:35:07 joepie91 has joined
297 2011-07-13 01:35:07 <BlueMatt> moa7: no
298 2011-07-13 01:35:16 <moa7> thank you for your honesty
299 2011-07-13 01:35:16 <BlueMatt> moa7: that is a requirement of any p2p network client
300 2011-07-13 01:35:19 <BlueMatt> not just bitcoin
301 2011-07-13 01:35:22 <BlueMatt> so...no
302 2011-07-13 01:35:25 <IO-> [Tycho]: thanks for the notes, appreciated
303 2011-07-13 01:35:35 <BlueMatt> though bitcoin can be smarter about what it stores, but it has to store something
304 2011-07-13 01:35:36 * [Tycho] never tried pushpools
305 2011-07-13 01:35:42 <IO-> really?
306 2011-07-13 01:35:55 <IO-> do you use the python version ?
307 2011-07-13 01:36:18 <[Tycho]> No, my pool is comletely written from scratch
308 2011-07-13 01:36:25 <[Tycho]> *p
309 2011-07-13 01:36:25 <moa7> it is completely out of proportion to have 8 connections and download 30,000 ... simple math, it should be configurable
310 2011-07-13 01:36:25 <IO-> ooh
311 2011-07-13 01:36:35 <BlueMatt> his pool was out before the oss poolservers existed
312 2011-07-13 01:36:36 <moa7> rant over.
313 2011-07-13 01:36:49 <BlueMatt> moa7: yep, addr.dat should be purged
314 2011-07-13 01:36:53 <IO-> pushpool leaves a lot to be desired
315 2011-07-13 01:37:04 <lfm> moa7: thatd be great if you knew which 8 or which 300 you would need in advance of the time you need them
316 2011-07-13 01:37:09 <IO-> i'd love an alternative. diablo said he was working on a java poold
317 2011-07-13 01:37:11 joepie91 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
318 2011-07-13 01:37:19 <BlueMatt> oh god
319 2011-07-13 01:37:22 <BlueMatt> why would you do that?
320 2011-07-13 01:37:24 <moa7> lfm: how about a pool of 3000
321 2011-07-13 01:37:31 <[Tycho]> Yeah, he even deai that he was working on a java miner.
322 2011-07-13 01:37:32 <BlueMatt> you are just asking for a performance nightmare...
323 2011-07-13 01:37:34 <[Tycho]> *said
324 2011-07-13 01:37:40 <moa7> or 10,000 or user configurable?
325 2011-07-13 01:37:44 <moa7> endless is not right.
326 2011-07-13 01:38:04 huk has quit ()
327 2011-07-13 01:38:08 <IO-> the JRE might load slow but once it's up and running java can be fast these days, totally depends on the code
328 2011-07-13 01:38:41 <[Tycho]> Well, my pool runs on JVM (but not written in Java)
329 2011-07-13 01:38:46 <moa7> net/disk churhing for miminal gain
330 2011-07-13 01:38:50 <denisx> IO-: yeah, I hear that alot. and then they call me in and I need put an varnish/nginx/squid before their setup ;)
331 2011-07-13 01:39:02 <moa7> s/churhing/churning
332 2011-07-13 01:39:03 <IO-> :)
333 2011-07-13 01:39:18 <BlueMatt> gavinTAS: just saw the ack, thanks
334 2011-07-13 01:39:23 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: tcatm you two are next ;)
335 2011-07-13 01:40:01 <moa7> that and wallet vulnerability encourage clients to go off-line not on-line
336 2011-07-13 01:40:14 <BlueMatt> what wallet vulnerability?
337 2011-07-13 01:40:32 <gavinTAS> BlueMatt: I updated bitcointools to at least dump out encrypted ckeys/mkeys (maybe eventually I'll teach it to decrypt when given a passphrase...)
338 2011-07-13 01:40:52 <BlueMatt> IO-: depends, though it typically can be slow as fuck compared to native...any software vm will be
339 2011-07-13 01:40:55 <BlueMatt> no way around that
340 2011-07-13 01:41:02 <BlueMatt> gavinTAS: I already did that...
341 2011-07-13 01:41:03 <IO-> yup
342 2011-07-13 01:41:13 <BlueMatt> gavinTAS: its in a pull
343 2011-07-13 01:41:22 <IO-> native over vm if at all possible for sure
344 2011-07-13 01:41:39 <BlueMatt> yea, especially if you want to run a mining server...which needs pretty high perf
345 2011-07-13 01:41:55 <IO-> the only reason to make a poold in java would be porability. but who wants to run it a pool server on a windows box or a cell phone?
346 2011-07-13 01:42:01 <IO-> portability*
347 2011-07-13 01:42:14 <[Tycho]> What is "TAS" ?
348 2011-07-13 01:42:19 <BlueMatt> tasmania
349 2011-07-13 01:42:22 <gavinTAS> BlueMatt: d'oh!
350 2011-07-13 01:42:35 <BlueMatt> sorry, guess I should have pointed that out earlier...
351 2011-07-13 01:43:20 <gavinTAS> BlueMatt: my fault, I forgot about the pull request (I did see it before)
352 2011-07-13 01:43:46 <BlueMatt> meh, not a big deal in any case
353 2011-07-13 01:43:53 rynx has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
354 2011-07-13 01:43:59 <BlueMatt> though the crypto will be a decent amount of work...
355 2011-07-13 01:45:15 <IO-> I have 11 servers to play around with. redoing a SQL server HA cluster. I originally setup a MySQL NDB cluster, even with the offical mysql.com bin package, and it was a joke. even with a LB in front I would get timeouts when one of the mysqld nodes rebooted.
356 2011-07-13 01:45:28 <BlueMatt> who is we, might I ask?
357 2011-07-13 01:45:50 <BlueMatt> sorry, read we instead of I for some reason
358 2011-07-13 01:45:57 <IO-> just me
359 2011-07-13 01:46:16 <IO-> i WISH i had help
360 2011-07-13 01:46:24 <BlueMatt> are you just now setting this up, seems like a lot of hardware to play around with for a starting pool
361 2011-07-13 01:46:43 <IO-> ya. i've been testing different methods since last friday
362 2011-07-13 01:47:17 <IO-> all ESX advanced blades at a colo, so I have full hardware level redundancy. I can move VM's from servr to server in real time without any packet loss
363 2011-07-13 01:47:33 <edGe06> fancy pants
364 2011-07-13 01:47:40 <IO-> it is very fancy
365 2011-07-13 01:47:43 <BlueMatt> you have way too much hardware to be starting a pool here...
366 2011-07-13 01:47:55 <IO-> no way
367 2011-07-13 01:48:05 <BlueMatt> oh, wait, can I ask if you might be able to provide either a nightly mirror for my nightly blockchain builds, or a dnsseed?
368 2011-07-13 01:48:06 <IO-> i'm having so much fun
369 2011-07-13 01:48:09 <BlueMatt> since you have all this...
370 2011-07-13 01:48:24 <BlueMatt> bitcoin really needs more well-hosted dnsseeds
371 2011-07-13 01:48:26 rynx has joined
372 2011-07-13 01:48:38 <IO-> sure
373 2011-07-13 01:48:46 <BlueMatt> pm?
374 2011-07-13 01:49:03 <IO-> I have an active/passive firewall LB'ing an active/active nginx web farm
375 2011-07-13 01:49:12 <IO-> yup
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388 2011-07-13 01:56:32 <edGe06> hey guys, anyone using the simplecoin frontend?
389 2011-07-13 02:02:17 Kiba has joined
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398 2011-07-13 02:13:12 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r0bad8e4 / (24 files in 3 dirs): Merge pull request #352 from TheBlueMatt/newenc ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/0bad8e423754cae582ceb99389709953f56947bc
399 2011-07-13 02:14:00 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: pulled
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402 2011-07-13 02:14:53 <BlueMatt> nice...
403 2011-07-13 02:15:17 f33x has quit (Quit: f33x)
404 2011-07-13 02:15:38 <BlueMatt> oh crap, now jenkins is gonna get confused about the win32 makefile...
405 2011-07-13 02:16:39 enquirer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
406 2011-07-13 02:17:20 <jgarzik> sipa: where is wallet import/export?
407 2011-07-13 02:17:58 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: he closed it temporarily as it included all the crypto stuff in it
408 2011-07-13 02:18:06 <BlueMatt> and the crypto commits might be out of date now
409 2011-07-13 02:18:08 enquirer has joined
410 2011-07-13 02:18:24 <BlueMatt> well out of date by a comment or two...
411 2011-07-13 02:18:40 Leo_II has joined
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417 2011-07-13 02:21:19 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r696d340 / (3 files in 2 dirs): Merge pull request #396 from jayschwa/nsis-branding ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/696d34069a4b87ceaeb64fc0efe78904bba140bc
418 2011-07-13 02:21:51 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r61e3c01 / share/pixmaps/bitcoin.ico : Merge pull request #402 from jayschwa/hirez-icon ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/61e3c011f5506b4ebd0014e49ea8b61ae916d20d
419 2011-07-13 02:21:56 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #84: ABORTED in 4 min 42 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/84/
420 2011-07-13 02:22:03 <BlueMatt> yea fu
421 2011-07-13 02:22:04 BlueMattBot has quit ()
422 2011-07-13 02:22:22 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: can we close pull #378 and #381 both?
423 2011-07-13 02:22:42 <BlueMatt> no, one of those needs pulled
424 2011-07-13 02:22:52 <BlueMatt> up to you which, I prefer 378, but doesnt matter
425 2011-07-13 02:24:08 BlueMattBot has joined
426 2011-07-13 02:24:24 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: #378 makes upwards compatibility impossible, which seems undesirable
427 2011-07-13 02:24:39 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: in the future we may add optional keys to the wallet, that we don't want stomped
428 2011-07-13 02:25:04 <BlueMatt> true, but 378 means you get a matrix of supported stuff without needing to implement one
429 2011-07-13 02:25:31 <BlueMatt> though I suppose that doesnt matter much as alternate implementations dont use our db format
430 2011-07-13 02:26:37 <BlueMatt> either one is fine with me...
431 2011-07-13 02:27:20 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: I don't mind 381 so much... see if gavinTAS will ACK
432 2011-07-13 02:28:42 Pinion has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
433 2011-07-13 02:28:42 <BlueMatt> anyway, its 4am...Im off to bed as soon as jenkins finishes, next nightly will have wallet crypto :)
434 2011-07-13 02:28:53 f33x has joined
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437 2011-07-13 02:37:08 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/381#issuecomment-1559614
438 2011-07-13 02:37:08 cuqa has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
439 2011-07-13 02:37:18 <BlueMatt> when the birds are waking up, its time for bed...gnight all
440 2011-07-13 02:37:29 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r0fa89d8 / (src/db.cpp src/db.h src/init.cpp src/wallet.cpp): Merge pull request #381 from TheBlueMatt/nminversion ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/0fa89d8e816807a621419495d7bdc6366979a0f0
441 2011-07-13 02:38:08 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #85: FAILURE in 14 min: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/85/
442 2011-07-13 02:38:09 <BlueMattBot> * codler: Minor translation changes for latest build
443 2011-07-13 02:38:09 <BlueMattBot> * matt: Prepare codebase for Encrypted Keys.
444 2011-07-13 02:38:10 <BlueMattBot> * matt: mlock() all private keys in memory
445 2011-07-13 02:38:10 <BlueMattBot> * jgarzik: Compile 'sv' translation
446 2011-07-13 02:38:11 <BlueMattBot> * laanwj: remove magic number: change threshold for nLockTime to constant
447 2011-07-13 02:38:11 <BlueMattBot> * matt: Make mlock() and munlock() portable to systems that require the address to be on a page boundary.
448 2011-07-13 02:38:13 <BlueMatt> damnit
449 2011-07-13 02:38:42 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: get some sleep
450 2011-07-13 02:38:50 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: don't worry, your mailbox will be full in the morning
451 2011-07-13 02:38:58 <gavinTAS> don't code drunk or sleepy.
452 2011-07-13 02:39:12 <BlueMatt> makefile.linux-mingw problem...should be an easy fix...
453 2011-07-13 02:39:17 * jgarzik is, perhaps, evil for merging awesome stuff right before BlueMatt's bedtime :)
454 2011-07-13 02:40:06 <jgarzik> gavinTAS: yeah, a couple beers and my code quality noticeably deteriorates. learned that long ago...
455 2011-07-13 02:40:17 <BlueMatt> na, just forgot to update that one (it got merged after newenc was mostly done)
456 2011-07-13 02:40:18 <jgarzik> don't get me wrong, I like beer :)
457 2011-07-13 02:41:38 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: merge newenc again, hopefully that will shut jenkins up
458 2011-07-13 02:42:02 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: huh? life is good here on git -tip
459 2011-07-13 02:42:04 bender32 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
460 2011-07-13 02:42:09 <BlueMatt> specifically https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/bitcoin/commit/d5b0a7aa2d6907ec06ee25ea3f906093620d56a1
461 2011-07-13 02:42:14 bender32 has joined
462 2011-07-13 02:42:17 <BlueMatt> its just the cross compile makefile
463 2011-07-13 02:42:29 <BlueMatt> oh and missed a space
464 2011-07-13 02:42:34 <BlueMatt> between crypter.h and init.h
465 2011-07-13 02:42:45 <BlueMatt> (damn lack of contacts makes seeing hard, let alone coding)
466 2011-07-13 02:43:10 <BlueMatt> anyway, now Im off jenkins should shut up when thats done
467 2011-07-13 02:43:33 <infinitevs> hehe
468 2011-07-13 02:43:35 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #86: ABORTED in 5 min 23 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/86/
469 2011-07-13 02:43:35 <BlueMattBot> matt: Add minversion to wallet.
470 2011-07-13 02:43:44 <BlueMatt> well after the next one then
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476 2011-07-13 02:47:38 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Matt Corallo master * r0ca8324 / src/makefile.linux-mingw : Update makefile.linux-mingw to work with crypter and UPnP fix. - http://bit.ly/pwLTyA https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/0ca8324f599eda83cae5f6a99ed9d1d40ec3ff2d
477 2011-07-13 02:48:17 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
478 2011-07-13 02:50:29 Zagitta has joined
479 2011-07-13 02:51:03 <Zagitta> aaand the c# noob is back to pester your lives :)
480 2011-07-13 02:53:01 pyro_ has joined
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482 2011-07-13 02:54:10 <jgarzik> ;;seen sirius-m
483 2011-07-13 02:54:11 <gribble> sirius-m was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 4 weeks, 4 days, 3 hours, 29 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <sirius-m> sipa: it's updated already?
484 2011-07-13 02:54:17 <jgarzik> sigh
485 2011-07-13 02:54:29 <jgarzik> I wonder what would happen if the forums were simply de-linked from bitcoin.org front page?
486 2011-07-13 02:55:01 magn3ts has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
487 2011-07-13 02:55:04 <noagendamarket> nothing of value would be lost
488 2011-07-13 02:56:48 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #87: STILL FAILING in 7 min 30 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/87/
489 2011-07-13 02:56:49 <BlueMattBot> jgarzik: Update makefile.linux-mingw to work with crypter and UPnP fix.
490 2011-07-13 02:57:31 magn3ts has joined
491 2011-07-13 03:00:42 <jgarzik> noagendamarket: heh
492 2011-07-13 03:00:45 <jgarzik> so true
493 2011-07-13 03:02:58 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: it would be nice to replace them with ... something.
494 2011-07-13 03:02:59 * luke-jr decides he prefers bitmap fonts over vector :|
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496 2011-07-13 03:04:34 <gmaxwell> sweet. wallet crypto merged.
497 2011-07-13 03:05:16 <justmoon> what's the next release?
498 2011-07-13 03:05:22 <justmoon> 0.4 or 0.3.25?
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501 2011-07-13 03:07:01 <luke-jr> justmoon: 0.4
502 2011-07-13 03:07:14 skeledrew has joined
503 2011-07-13 03:07:28 <justmoon> nice! with wallet crypto and key import/export?
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509 2011-07-13 03:16:31 <IO-> luke-jr: do you use pushpoold for your pool?
510 2011-07-13 03:18:44 <Sthebig> Incoming transactions don't use up keys from the key pool, do they? For example, if I wanted to generate a new wallet.dat on a known good/clean machine and save a few of the addresses in a text document somewhere, then securely wipe the wallet.dat (after making a backup) could I indefinitely receive bitcoins at those addresses (and be able to access those coins in the future) without ever
511 2011-07-13 03:18:44 <Sthebig> launching the bitcoin client again with the wallet.dat?
512 2011-07-13 03:19:04 <justmoon> Sthebig, yes
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514 2011-07-13 03:19:47 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * ra1a404e / (7 files in 4 dirs): Added --forcenode command line option. - http://bit.ly/pDDkSX https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/a1a404e8e9c1f1b983e9ca2d3089417e55804766
515 2011-07-13 03:19:48 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * re57c34d / (lib/rpc/jsonrpcserver.js lib/rpc/proxy.js): Added RPC call gettransactionraw to get serialized txs as hex. - http://bit.ly/qfH2EM https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/e57c34d78549c17c502b678b0155c1849632c520
516 2011-07-13 03:19:49 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r7906902 / (lib/util.js native.cc): Added ECDSA signature verification in native code. - http://bit.ly/qZPN3f https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/7906902b1a87caeb551f2ec07ebf778d9d8d4b55
517 2011-07-13 03:19:50 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r073522e / (6 files in 3 dirs): Add OP_CHECKSIG support to script interpreter. - http://bit.ly/rjmVFG https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/073522ebc30f8cba045c3bbbb84a1f2c8aafd538
518 2011-07-13 03:20:15 <luke-jr> IO-: yes
519 2011-07-13 03:20:56 <Sthebig> luke-jr: I just started using your pool the other day. :)
520 2011-07-13 03:21:33 <IO-> When I run bitcoind on another server I get rpc timeout and other issues. do you run bitcoind on the pool server?
521 2011-07-13 03:21:47 <luke-jr> justmoon: nice
522 2011-07-13 03:21:56 <luke-jr> IO-: of course
523 2011-07-13 03:22:11 <IO-> ok
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525 2011-07-13 03:22:32 <Zagitta> luke-jr: what hardware are we looking at to handle 300 ghash/s?
526 2011-07-13 03:24:01 <luke-jr> Zagitta: if you have issues on Eligius, I'll do my best to handle the load
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529 2011-07-13 03:24:54 <Zagitta> luke-jr: oh no not at all :) i was just wondering because i'm considering setting up my own pool
530 2011-07-13 03:25:24 <luke-jr> Zagitta: it's not in my interests to help people setup competing pools ;)
531 2011-07-13 03:25:37 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r4ea952d / (11 files in 2 dirs): Merge pull request #399 from muggenhor/warning-fixes ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/4ea952d5c03e18b9ddd0e97f4434cd9092358dab
532 2011-07-13 03:26:49 <Zagitta> luke-jr: it's not like a ballpark estimate of the preformance pushpool&bitcoind delivers is going to make or break any competition ;)
533 2011-07-13 03:27:13 <unclemantis> when the hell is the bitcoin inflation going to burst and drop back to NORMAL PRICES?
534 2011-07-13 03:27:19 <luke-jr> Zagitta: perhaps, but it would involve spending time trying to find an answer
535 2011-07-13 03:27:32 <luke-jr> unclemantis: you mean rise back to normal prices?
536 2011-07-13 03:27:48 <unclemantis> ya sure, rise back to like 3 or 4usd per btc
537 2011-07-13 03:27:49 <IO-> I was thinkin $14 is low
538 2011-07-13 03:27:56 <IO-> $16 was the old normal
539 2011-07-13 03:28:09 <unclemantis> see what i mean? We have these noobs that THINK THIS IS NORMAL
540 2011-07-13 03:28:10 <jgarzik> does anyone know if 'error' from forums is on IRC?
541 2011-07-13 03:28:22 <ewal> unclemantis: jsut as soon as difficulty drops back down to 100,000
542 2011-07-13 03:28:25 <unclemantis> it wasn't like this over 2 months ago
543 2011-07-13 03:28:30 <IO-> its been $14+ long enough to
544 2011-07-13 03:28:32 <luke-jr> unclemantis: LOL fail
545 2011-07-13 03:28:33 <Zagitta> luke-jr: ah okay, i though everyone running a pool would know the hardware backing it up lol... but fair enough :)
546 2011-07-13 03:28:44 <luke-jr> unclemantis: normal is like $25-$30 ea
547 2011-07-13 03:28:44 <unclemantis> big fail, epic :)
548 2011-07-13 03:28:58 <unclemantis> luke-jr that was a fluke
549 2011-07-13 03:29:01 <luke-jr> unclemantis: actual value based on scarsity is probably a lot higher
550 2011-07-13 03:29:02 <jgarzik> will bitcoin value go up, now that we support encryption?
551 2011-07-13 03:29:04 <jgarzik> :)
552 2011-07-13 03:29:21 <IO-> can't hurt
553 2011-07-13 03:29:27 <unclemantis> meh
554 2011-07-13 03:29:49 <luke-jr> jgarzik: we don't until it's released :p
555 2011-07-13 03:30:00 * luke-jr speculates and buys a bunch XD
556 2011-07-13 03:30:24 <jgarzik> ;)
557 2011-07-13 03:31:10 AAA_awright_ is now known as AAA_awright
558 2011-07-13 03:31:21 * luke-jr wants to see the price back above TBC<->USCent parity again :P
559 2011-07-13 03:31:21 Pinion has joined
560 2011-07-13 03:33:48 <dsockwell> TBC?
561 2011-07-13 03:34:20 <dsockwell> oh
562 2011-07-13 03:34:30 <dsockwell> i need my coffee
563 2011-07-13 03:34:58 <unclemantis> and freaking dwolla is being an ass with bitcoin7 so i can't freaking buy cheap btc and sell high at the other markets
564 2011-07-13 03:35:31 <luke-jr> unclemantis: if it was easily done, someone would have beat you to it
565 2011-07-13 03:35:37 <unclemantis> and liberty reserve is just too damn confusing
566 2011-07-13 03:36:35 ewal__ has joined
567 2011-07-13 03:37:04 <Zagitta> The full hash of a block shown on blockexplorer is the same as the block header right?
568 2011-07-13 03:38:26 ewal__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
569 2011-07-13 03:39:07 <unclemantis> screw this i am going to go lye down
570 2011-07-13 03:39:10 <unclemantis> later folks
571 2011-07-13 03:40:01 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #88: STILL FAILING in 10 min: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/88/
572 2011-07-13 03:40:01 <BlueMattBot> * me: fix warning on 64bit systems: cast to pointer from integer of different size [-Wint-to-pointer-cast]
573 2011-07-13 03:40:02 <BlueMattBot> * me: fix warnings: expression result unused [-Wunused-value]
574 2011-07-13 03:40:02 <BlueMattBot> * me: fix warnings: using the result of an assignment as a condition without parentheses [-Wparentheses]
575 2011-07-13 03:40:03 <BlueMattBot> * me: fix warning: comparison of unsigned expression < 0 is always false [-Wtautological-compare]
576 2011-07-13 03:40:03 <BlueMattBot> * me: fix warning: X enumeration values not handled in switch [-Wswitch-enum]
577 2011-07-13 03:40:04 <BlueMattBot> * me: fix warning: unused variable 'X' [-Wunused-variable]
578 2011-07-13 03:40:04 <BlueMattBot> * me: fix warning: unused function 'SigIllHandlerSSE2' [-Wunused-function]
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583 2011-07-13 03:48:16 <sacarlson> does anyone understand why I would see testnet address in the link to weeds block explorer when the address now start with header byte 243? http://john-edwin-tobey.org:2750/block/00000005400046930a280d489f05be4475de08717767df3127f95787f5690f63
584 2011-07-13 03:49:01 <sacarlson> is that data in the block or is that in the way that the tools format it?
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590 2011-07-13 03:51:07 <justmoon> sacarlson, the blocks only contain the 160-bits hashes, not the version byte or the checksum
591 2011-07-13 03:51:08 <sacarlson> or maybe I need to make some changes in the miner software?
592 2011-07-13 03:51:34 <justmoon> so whatever it uses as the version byte in the addresses would depend on the block explorer software
593 2011-07-13 03:51:41 <sacarlson> justmoon: ok so I could just change the format in the python to fix it?
594 2011-07-13 03:51:54 <justmoon> I don't see why not
595 2011-07-13 03:52:02 <sacarlson> justmoon: cool it had me woried there
596 2011-07-13 03:52:59 <sacarlson> justmoon: thanks I'll take a closer look at tobey's software to find where he gets the version from
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616 2011-07-13 04:14:09 <Zagitta> justmoon: in your reply to sacalrson, what checksum are you talking about?
617 2011-07-13 04:14:50 <justmoon> Zagitta, addresses are in the format: [version byte][160-bit hash][4 byte checksum]
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620 2011-07-13 04:15:38 <Zagitta> justmoon: oh you were talking about addresses, i missunderstood it as the block hashes
621 2011-07-13 04:15:56 <Zagitta> justmoon: any idea what format those are in?
622 2011-07-13 04:16:30 <justmoon> the block hashes? they are SHA256
623 2011-07-13 04:16:40 <justmoon> 256-bit integers
624 2011-07-13 04:17:07 <Zagitta> yes but on in blockexplorer they're trunecated or something
625 2011-07-13 04:17:39 <justmoon> Zagitta, on blockexplorer they aren't: http://blockexplorer.com/block/000000008d9dc510f23c2657fc4f67bea30078cc05a90eb89e84cc475c080805
626 2011-07-13 04:18:18 <justmoon> count the characters if you don't believe me, it's 64 characters hex = 32 byte = 256 bits
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629 2011-07-13 04:19:12 <Zagitta> hmm what am i missing because the hash produced by miners is much longer?
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631 2011-07-13 04:19:30 <justmoon> the hash produced by miners? you mean what they submit?
632 2011-07-13 04:19:38 <Zagitta> aye
633 2011-07-13 04:19:41 <justmoon> what they submit isn't the block hash, but the block header
634 2011-07-13 04:19:53 <justmoon> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#Block_Headers
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637 2011-07-13 04:20:42 <Zagitta> i was of the understanding that those were the same but apperently not... thanks!
638 2011-07-13 04:20:59 <justmoon> the hash is what comes out when you run sha256 on the block header twice
639 2011-07-13 04:21:55 <justmoon> the miners change the nonce in the block header until the hash - as a number - is below the given difficulty target
640 2011-07-13 04:21:57 <Zagitta> ahhaaaa
641 2011-07-13 04:22:29 <justmoon> then they submit the block header, the bitcoind calculates the hash and thereby confirms that the miner did the work
642 2011-07-13 04:24:43 <Zagitta> so 4 rounds of hashing is involved?
643 2011-07-13 04:24:45 <sacarlson> would anyone like to give me a namecoin to play with at some point to make and test MultiCoin to be able to transact them?
644 2011-07-13 04:24:57 freakazoid has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
645 2011-07-13 04:24:59 <justmoon> Zagitta, no, just two
646 2011-07-13 04:25:17 <midnightmagic> sacarlson: i will, but i have a condition
647 2011-07-13 04:25:29 ewal has quit (Quit: ewal)
648 2011-07-13 04:25:32 <sacarlson> midnightmagic: sure what might that be?
649 2011-07-13 04:25:32 <justmoon> Zagitta, the miner hashes two rounds and the server hashes two rounds, but they're the same two rounds, the server is doing it to confirm the result the miner claims
650 2011-07-13 04:25:37 ewal has joined
651 2011-07-13 04:26:10 <Zagitta> ahhaa yes that makes sense
652 2011-07-13 04:27:10 <Zagitta> thanks a lot justmoon :)
653 2011-07-13 04:31:04 <justmoon> sure thing
654 2011-07-13 04:31:07 <upb> lol i see i almost managed to sneak a double free into that node.js thing
655 2011-07-13 04:31:09 <upb> sorry about that
656 2011-07-13 04:31:20 <justmoon> upb: no worries
657 2011-07-13 04:31:32 <justmoon> upb: we do test, you know ;)
658 2011-07-13 04:31:37 <upb> :)
659 2011-07-13 04:31:59 <justmoon> to compensate I added a new memory leak too, btw xD
660 2011-07-13 04:32:04 <upb> hahaha
661 2011-07-13 04:32:33 <justmoon> it's in sha256_midstate
662 2011-07-13 04:32:36 AStove has joined
663 2011-07-13 04:32:55 <justmoon> actually I might fix that right now
664 2011-07-13 04:34:33 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r5dd69be / native.cc : Fix missing free() in sha256_midstate(). - http://bit.ly/qVSLV2 https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/5dd69be2cbaa347af93f52078d5ef7921e107454
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674 2011-07-13 04:44:39 <upb> justmoon: btw did you figure out what the different SIGHASH_BLAH's do ?
675 2011-07-13 04:44:49 <upb> whats their purpose
676 2011-07-13 04:45:02 <upb> to modify a pre signed transaction while its in transit or smth ?
677 2011-07-13 04:47:38 Marf has joined
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679 2011-07-13 04:54:20 <justmoon> upb, those make the signature independent from other inputs or outputs
680 2011-07-13 04:54:42 <justmoon> useful if you want to have it constructed by different people and then put together at the end
681 2011-07-13 04:58:24 <justmoon> SIGHASH_NONE in particular is fun: blank check :)
682 2011-07-13 04:58:49 <sacarlson> looks like I will be changing the 4 byte magic number in weeds to fix several of my problems. I assume from looking at the code that the mined blocks will still be good just the config will have to be changed in all clients
683 2011-07-13 04:59:13 kish has joined
684 2011-07-13 04:59:22 <justmoon> sacarlson, I'm curious what is weeds? do you have a link or a one-sentence explanation? :)
685 2011-07-13 04:59:38 <sacarlson> justmoon: weeds in another test crypto chain
686 2011-07-13 04:59:38 alystair has joined
687 2011-07-13 04:59:52 <alystair> \o/ birthday!
688 2011-07-13 04:59:53 <alystair> woooo
689 2011-07-13 04:59:57 <justmoon> sacarlson, just for fun or are you trying to do something specific?
690 2011-07-13 05:00:05 <justmoon> alystair, shut up, go away
691 2011-07-13 05:00:09 <justmoon> alystair, just kidding!
692 2011-07-13 05:00:15 <justmoon> alystair, happy birthday!!
693 2011-07-13 05:00:17 * alystair goes to get his rope
694 2011-07-13 05:00:22 <sacarlson> justmoon: it was the proof of concept of using Multicoin
695 2011-07-13 05:00:52 <justmoon> right... multicoin... and what is that again
696 2011-07-13 05:00:56 <sacarlson> justmoon: an example of some of the things you can do with multicoin to create and transact alternate chains
697 2011-07-13 05:00:56 * justmoon feels left out :(
698 2011-07-13 05:01:26 <sacarlson> justmoon: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24209.0
699 2011-07-13 05:01:37 <justmoon> sacarlson, thanks :)
700 2011-07-13 05:02:11 <justmoon> sacarlson, cool stuff!
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704 2011-07-13 05:11:14 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r116df55 / (src/db.h src/wallet.cpp src/wallet.h): Update CWallet::LoadWallet for proper return type. - http://bit.ly/pDir5j https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/116df55e21e5380c1cf4bccc62546757d44c1294
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711 2011-07-13 05:15:14 <jgarzik> wow
712 2011-07-13 05:15:18 <jgarzik> some big testnet blocks in there
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722 2011-07-13 05:21:35 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #89: STILL FAILING in 7 min 17 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/89/
723 2011-07-13 05:21:35 <BlueMattBot> jgarzik: Update CWallet::LoadWallet for proper return type.
724 2011-07-13 05:22:53 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r24a0def / (5 files in 4 dirs): Bump version to 0.3.25 ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/24a0def8cda671e9faedb84e6590eb761ba7487e
725 2011-07-13 05:24:27 <Zagitta> is there somewhere i can get a blockheader that was valid and obviously already has been submitted to the network?
726 2011-07-13 05:24:42 Stellar has joined
727 2011-07-13 05:25:01 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * re9fd7d9 / doc/README : doc/README: word wrap into something readable - http://bit.ly/qdeUY5 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/e9fd7d9fad9fdb142d039d2a625dd6d50090e495
728 2011-07-13 05:25:26 <jgarzik> Zagitta: every bitcoin node has over 130,000 examples
729 2011-07-13 05:29:13 <Zagitta> i meant easily extractable :p
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731 2011-07-13 05:31:27 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #90: STILL FAILING in 7 min 9 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/90/
732 2011-07-13 05:31:28 <BlueMattBot> jgarzik: Bump version to 0.3.25
733 2011-07-13 05:31:32 <sacarlson> zagitta: you can look at the blocks in the block explorer
734 2011-07-13 05:32:14 <Zagitta> sacarlson: not the block header as far as i can see?
735 2011-07-13 05:32:50 mmoya has joined
736 2011-07-13 05:33:19 <sacarlson> zagitta: the magic number 4 bytes?
737 2011-07-13 05:34:12 <sacarlson> I think I'm not ever close
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739 2011-07-13 05:35:16 <Zagitta> sacarlson: nope, the header that the block hash was calculated from AKA the one miners submit to bicoind/a pool
740 2011-07-13 05:38:27 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #91: STILL FAILING in 6 min 59 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/91/
741 2011-07-13 05:38:28 <BlueMattBot> jgarzik: doc/README: word wrap into something readable
742 2011-07-13 05:38:43 <jgarzik> BlueMattBot: shocking!
743 2011-07-13 05:38:43 <BlueMattBot> jgarzik did you mean me? Unknown command 'shocking!'
744 2011-07-13 05:38:43 <BlueMattBot> Use 'BlueMattBot-hide-me: help' to get help!
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747 2011-07-13 05:42:41 <AlonzoTG> om
748 2011-07-13 05:42:57 <AlonzoTG> --- And I thought I was too lazy to write comments. =(
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754 2011-07-13 05:51:24 <sacarlson> how do these number sound for the new weeds 4 byte magic number in hex \xf8\xbf\xb5\xda as compared to testnet \xfa\xbf\xb5\xda this makes if different from all that I know including namecoin and mainnet
755 2011-07-13 05:53:10 <sacarlson> ok then the trial with this number will begin
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758 2011-07-13 05:59:42 <sacarlson> shouldn't it fail to connect to others that are still using the other 4 byte magic numbers? I still get one connect from one that still runs the original
759 2011-07-13 06:00:39 <sacarlson> oh ok now it descontected it just takes a bit of time
760 2011-07-13 06:03:24 <sacarlson> I get socket no message in first 60 seconds, 0 1
761 2011-07-13 06:03:24 <sacarlson> disconnecting node 208.71.168.184:38333
762 2011-07-13 06:03:24 <sacarlson> so it will still connect to others on the IRC bootstrap but disconnect them when it see's they don't recognize the 4 byte magic code
763 2011-07-13 06:07:33 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r6dea29b / lib/schema/transaction.js : Implement SIGHASH_SINGLE. - http://bit.ly/oOeR83 https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/6dea29b529e40054cdea08a65fd74509071b6a65
764 2011-07-13 06:07:33 <CIA-103> bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p: Stefan Thomas master * r8eeb0cf / (3 files in 2 dirs): Implemented Script.findAndDelete(). - http://bit.ly/pxTQi9 https://github.com/bitcoinjs/node-bitcoin-p2p/commit/8eeb0cf7cb461f95bbb89cf6f6d7c0ae054202d0
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788 2011-07-13 06:51:34 <upb> sacarlson: why not create another nick prefix
789 2011-07-13 06:51:50 <upb> so you dont pollute the bitcoin nodes with ones that arent connectable anyway
790 2011-07-13 06:52:08 <sacarlson> upb: nick prefix?
791 2011-07-13 06:52:15 <sacarlson> like weeds?
792 2011-07-13 06:52:22 <sacarlson> to weeds2?
793 2011-07-13 06:53:11 <upb> oh youre already doing it ?
794 2011-07-13 06:53:27 <sacarlson> upb: yes that's what I'm in the process of doing now
795 2011-07-13 06:53:53 <sacarlson> upb: weeds was created when I was first learning about bitcoin software so has many flaws
796 2011-07-13 06:54:58 <sacarlson> I've also working on the changes needed in bitcoin-abe to support the new changes
797 2011-07-13 06:56:17 <sacarlson> cool thing is so far even with the changes the originaly created blocks are still working
798 2011-07-13 06:56:43 E-sense has joined
799 2011-07-13 07:00:27 <Zagitta> it's a pretty cool project sacarlson
800 2011-07-13 07:00:54 <Zagitta> i wish i wasn't a dumb c# noob so i could help haha
801 2011-07-13 07:01:38 <sacarlson> Zagitta: well it's not all c# I also need php and python support to make a full infrastructure
802 2011-07-13 07:03:38 <Zagitta> wait are you actually coding in c#? i just asumed you'd be working in c or c++
803 2011-07-13 07:04:07 <Zagitta> and by dumb c# noob i meant that i suck at everything but c#
804 2011-07-13 07:04:16 <sacarlson> zagitta: two months ago I know almost nothing about c++ but bitcoin is a very interesting project
805 2011-07-13 07:04:50 <sacarlson> Zagitta: you can imbed c
806 2011-07-13 07:05:16 <sacarlson> zagitta: I write mostly in c# I guess it still works in c++
807 2011-07-13 07:05:32 <sacarlson> or is c# = c++?
808 2011-07-13 07:06:03 <mtrlt> as much as java is c#
809 2011-07-13 07:06:39 <sacarlson> mtrlt: I'm not up on terminology or symboligy
810 2011-07-13 07:06:52 <mtrlt> different languages are different :P
811 2011-07-13 07:07:13 <sacarlson> mtrlt: but what is the word name for c#?
812 2011-07-13 07:07:33 <mtrlt> c sharp
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814 2011-07-13 07:08:17 <sacarlson> mtrlt: most computer languages to me are much the same as I look at the sourounding code it's easy to pick up the differences
815 2011-07-13 07:09:07 <sacarlson> execptions like APL and I'm sure others look like some alien wrote it
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817 2011-07-13 07:10:00 <mtrlt> to you, maybe, but not to compilers
818 2011-07-13 07:10:37 <Zagitta> c++ confuse me because there's no type safty
819 2011-07-13 07:13:07 <xelister> Zagitta: you drunk bro?
820 2011-07-13 07:13:17 <sacarlson> Zagitta: bigist confusion in c++ is I thought << meant rotate, I thought it was still fully compatible in some super set way to C but that took me hours to figure out
821 2011-07-13 07:13:27 <xelister> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_safety#C.2B.2B
822 2011-07-13 07:13:40 <Zagitta> xelister: nope, just hyper after an allnighter
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826 2011-07-13 07:14:31 <Zagitta> sacarlson: haha
827 2011-07-13 07:14:53 vegard is now known as Guest51257
828 2011-07-13 07:15:25 <sacarlson> were my old human logic confliced with the new
829 2011-07-13 07:15:42 darksk1ez has joined
830 2011-07-13 07:15:54 <Zagitta> xelister: sure there are type safety features in c++ but it's like wall made of wet cardboard compared to c# type safety lol
831 2011-07-13 07:16:45 <xelister> Zagitta: then use it in type-safe way =)
832 2011-07-13 07:19:00 <Zagitta> xelister: too dumb for that... Mind you i'm only 18½, have never had any computer science because i went to a shitty highschool and is as such completly self thaught... I essentially shutgun debug till i've learned how something works :p
833 2011-07-13 07:19:04 TD has joined
834 2011-07-13 07:19:15 <forrestv> sacarlson, << isn't rotate in C ...
835 2011-07-13 07:19:18 <xelister> ;)
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841 2011-07-13 07:24:49 <sacarlson> forrestv: ROL32(i32,n)=((unsigned long)i32,<<n)+((unsigned long)i32>>(32-n)); this is how I remember it http://www.edaboard.com/thread163366.html
842 2011-07-13 07:25:19 spirals_away is now known as spirals
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846 2011-07-13 07:28:47 <sacarlson> In C-inspired languages, the left and right shift operators are "<<" and ">>", respectively. The number of places to shift is given as the second argument to the shift operators. For example, x = y << 2;
847 2011-07-13 07:29:04 ThomasV has joined
848 2011-07-13 07:33:53 molecular has joined
849 2011-07-13 07:35:08 <lfm> In C when you >> a signed value the filled in bits on the left are undefined
850 2011-07-13 07:35:14 zyb has quit (Quit: leaving)
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852 2011-07-13 07:35:43 reflect_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
853 2011-07-13 07:35:51 <lfm> a signed negative value that is
854 2011-07-13 07:37:38 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
855 2011-07-13 07:42:29 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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862 2011-07-13 07:53:17 <jgarzik> not undefined, implementation-defined. in practice, it is left up to the CPU, which behaves predictably.
863 2011-07-13 07:53:42 ahihi2 has joined
864 2011-07-13 07:56:15 shLONG has joined
865 2011-07-13 07:58:44 <lfm> jgarzik: arnt all undefined results implementation defined?
866 2011-07-13 07:59:41 <lfm> hmm, nm I guess not
867 2011-07-13 08:12:33 langley has joined
868 2011-07-13 08:17:56 <Zagitta> hmm... Isn't the amount of shares that's required to be kept in memory by the pool to check for duplicates absurdly large?
869 2011-07-13 08:18:25 E-sense has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
870 2011-07-13 08:18:38 <mtrlt> not more than the shares for the current round.
871 2011-07-13 08:18:40 harrigan has left ()
872 2011-07-13 08:18:53 sgstair has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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876 2011-07-13 08:21:55 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
877 2011-07-13 08:22:24 slux has joined
878 2011-07-13 08:22:56 <Zagitta> obviously but for an average round at current difficulty that's still around a million or something
879 2011-07-13 08:24:01 Stellar has joined
880 2011-07-13 08:24:20 <lfm> Zagitta: use a unique extra nonce for each user
881 2011-07-13 08:26:45 <Zagitta> lfm: i'm not following you on how that avoids having to check for duplicates?
882 2011-07-13 08:27:24 <mtrlt> well you only have to check the shares with the same prevblock and merkleroot
883 2011-07-13 08:27:36 <lfm> like dont you require they return the same block as they were sent?. Maybe two blocks per connection at most
884 2011-07-13 08:28:43 <Zagitta> atm i've only gotten so far that i rcp getwork from bitcoind and rewrite the target
885 2011-07-13 08:28:56 molecular has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
886 2011-07-13 08:29:29 molecular has joined
887 2011-07-13 08:29:50 <lfm> Zagitta: ok well that wont get you very far. You really need to assemble you own blocks with txn
888 2011-07-13 08:30:36 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
889 2011-07-13 08:30:56 <mtrlt> yep
890 2011-07-13 08:31:01 <mtrlt> bitcoind's getwork isn't really scalable
891 2011-07-13 08:31:09 <Zagitta> lfm: yeah i do... which in turn means i need to write code to maintain a blockchain and node connections and what not
892 2011-07-13 08:31:27 <lfm> or borrow code
893 2011-07-13 08:31:29 karnac has joined
894 2011-07-13 08:32:58 <Zagitta> haven't really found anything suitable in c# other than http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinsharp/ which gave me an exception when i tried to load my wallet, didn't really look that much into it after
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897 2011-07-13 08:33:33 flok has joined
898 2011-07-13 08:33:53 <lfm> ok, if you're dead set on it all being in c# then I guess you write your own
899 2011-07-13 08:34:51 <Zagitta> well it's a requirement that the code is cross platform to linux with mono and i at least haven't checked if pinvoke workes through mono
900 2011-07-13 08:35:11 [Tycho] has joined
901 2011-07-13 08:35:23 <lfm> oh, does mono work?
902 2011-07-13 08:36:03 <lfm> no idea what pinvoke is
903 2011-07-13 08:36:30 <Zagitta> well i tested it on my ubuntu server a while ago when my implementation was much simpler and it worked just fine
904 2011-07-13 08:37:51 <Zagitta> pinvoke = [DllImport("nativeDllFileHere.dll")]
905 2011-07-13 08:38:16 <Zagitta> c# way of interop
906 2011-07-13 08:39:37 <lfm> still no idea what pinvoke is. interop bewtween whats?
907 2011-07-13 08:39:39 wirehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
908 2011-07-13 08:40:30 <lfm> D11 like DriectX 11?
909 2011-07-13 08:42:42 Burgundy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
910 2011-07-13 08:43:45 <Zagitta> look here for an example of using a native windows dll from c#: http://pinvoke.net/default.aspx/user32.GetAsyncKeyState
911 2011-07-13 08:43:57 <lfm> oh DLL. so you're thinking of using some dll from windows on mono?
912 2011-07-13 08:44:35 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
913 2011-07-13 08:44:50 <lfm> If it is a device driver it probably wont work
914 2011-07-13 08:46:02 <Zagitta> no it was just an example
915 2011-07-13 08:46:17 wirehead has joined
916 2011-07-13 08:49:13 <Zagitta> when you said that i could do the block fetching in another language i just thought of pinvoke as the obvious way to communicate but i guess you could instead fork the current bitcoind and apply the mulithreaded rcp patch and write code to fetch my own blocks with txn
917 2011-07-13 08:50:03 <lfm> Oh did I say that?
918 2011-07-13 08:50:21 <Zagitta> about 20minutes ago yes :p
919 2011-07-13 08:51:08 <Zagitta> or at least something a long those lines
920 2011-07-13 08:51:28 Kiba has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
921 2011-07-13 08:52:10 * lfm mainly wonders why we need yet another pool server
922 2011-07-13 08:52:34 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
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924 2011-07-13 08:55:10 <Zagitta> actually my software is opensource so it's more to create an alternative to pushpool
925 2011-07-13 08:57:52 <Zagitta> not to mention i like the challenge so i learn something new :p
926 2011-07-13 08:58:11 <bittwist> is pushpool still the only decent pool software?
927 2011-07-13 08:59:10 rethaw has quit (Quit: rethaw)
928 2011-07-13 08:59:17 <Zagitta> i haven't heard of other backends but i'm also relatively new to bitcoin...
929 2011-07-13 09:00:09 nemesis51 is now known as nemesis51|away
930 2011-07-13 09:00:41 <bittwist> i only took a look some time ago but it was rather sparse out there, with all the attention on pushpool or extending it
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933 2011-07-13 09:07:08 <Zagitta> sometimes i don't get how people can hate .net, it has so many usefull classes! ArraySegment<T> for one
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935 2011-07-13 09:08:23 <bittwist> mark of the beast
936 2011-07-13 09:09:26 <Zagitta> bittwist: and that's supposed to mean what exactly? *confused*
937 2011-07-13 09:09:52 <bittwist> it means that people often have an irrational distaste for a name thats been thrust into their face all of their lives
938 2011-07-13 09:10:17 <bittwist> so MS = evil = .net is the evil too
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941 2011-07-13 09:13:33 <Zagitta> following that logic MS can't really be considered evil as Gates donated 20 billions to global health care
942 2011-07-13 09:14:29 kreal- has joined
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944 2011-07-13 09:19:47 <bittwist> Zagitta: i focus that irrational urge to hate into one of their products, say, Windows ME
945 2011-07-13 09:19:52 <bittwist> Zagitta: and leave it at that :)
946 2011-07-13 09:20:11 <Zagitta> bittwist: haha good call
947 2011-07-13 09:20:48 <bittwist> Zagitta: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/dirty-socks-could-help-fight-malaria/story-e6frfku0-1226094065243
948 2011-07-13 09:20:56 <bittwist> on the topic of his foundation
949 2011-07-13 09:24:39 <Zagitta> bittwist: i think the article is worded poorly, (not that i'm a MS fanboi) but i'm pretty sure the breakthrough was the creation of the synthetic compound, not the idea of using socks ;)
950 2011-07-13 09:25:01 <bittwist> yes news.com.au likes to flavor up their titles
951 2011-07-13 09:25:35 <bittwist> still, the foundation giving out more loot to help fight COMMON ailements, not just first world ones
952 2011-07-13 09:29:03 <Zagitta> I'm not quite sure wheter you consider that good or bad?
953 2011-07-13 09:29:04 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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955 2011-07-13 09:29:27 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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959 2011-07-13 09:34:44 <bittwist> Zagitta: good
960 2011-07-13 09:35:05 <Zagitta> bittwist: then we're in agreement :)
961 2011-07-13 09:36:55 <lfm> Gates is hardly Microsoft especially now
962 2011-07-13 09:37:57 <Zagitta> well the image of MS being the big bad company comes from when he was part of it
963 2011-07-13 09:37:59 shLONG has joined
964 2011-07-13 09:38:15 wirehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
965 2011-07-13 09:38:53 <lfm> He wasnt doing all his philanthropy then
966 2011-07-13 09:39:32 <lfm> Just means that Gates was ok, only Microsoft corrupted him
967 2011-07-13 09:39:50 <bittwist> gotta make stacks off first worlders before you can help others
968 2011-07-13 09:39:52 <lfm> He recovered somewhat when he got out
969 2011-07-13 09:39:57 <bittwist> i think he got it right
970 2011-07-13 09:40:15 shLONG has quit (Client Quit)
971 2011-07-13 09:40:48 <lfm> the old saying "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutly"
972 2011-07-13 09:41:03 <Zagitta> it was just an entirely stupid analogy from my side with (gates = good) = (ms = good)
973 2011-07-13 09:41:21 Burgundy has joined
974 2011-07-13 09:41:39 <Zagitta> point is that i'll enjoy my ArraySegment<T> class and you can hate it as much as you want :P
975 2011-07-13 09:42:26 <lfm> isnt a segment of an array just another array?
976 2011-07-13 09:42:59 <Zagitta> it's just a wrapper class
977 2011-07-13 09:44:04 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
978 2011-07-13 09:44:11 <lfm> sure, that explains it all.
979 2011-07-13 09:45:10 <Zagitta> wich i just extended to make cutting out the different data segments of the block header easier
980 2011-07-13 09:45:12 copumpkin has joined
981 2011-07-13 09:45:47 * lfm wanders away muttering about &$^%$& object oriented %$$&$&
982 2011-07-13 09:45:52 genjix_ has joined
983 2011-07-13 09:46:02 <Zagitta> lfm: haha <3
984 2011-07-13 09:47:43 * lfm mutters about 5 pages of code to do a for loop
985 2011-07-13 09:47:54 <Zagitta> lfm: sorry my ignorance but isn't it a pain in the a** to program non OOP?
986 2011-07-13 09:48:12 f33x has joined
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989 2011-07-13 09:48:19 OneFixt_ has joined
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991 2011-07-13 09:48:48 <UukGoblin> Zagitta, depends what you program
992 2011-07-13 09:49:05 <UukGoblin> OOP is good for some uses, but sucks at others
993 2011-07-13 09:49:34 <UukGoblin> some problems are better solved with procedural or functional languages
994 2011-07-13 09:50:18 <UukGoblin> (or logical)
995 2011-07-13 09:50:28 <Zagitta> yeah... data processing is a bit of a pain with OOP
996 2011-07-13 09:50:46 meLon has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
997 2011-07-13 09:50:46 genjix has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
998 2011-07-13 09:50:46 liltoe has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
999 2011-07-13 09:50:46 repl has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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1001 2011-07-13 09:50:47 daveparrish has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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1009 2011-07-13 09:50:47 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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1013 2011-07-13 09:50:55 <Zagitta> F# to the rescue! or not lol
1014 2011-07-13 09:50:57 OneFixt_ is now known as OneFixt
1015 2011-07-13 09:51:06 daveparrish has joined
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1018 2011-07-13 09:51:30 <lfm> sounds painful too close to F###
1019 2011-07-13 09:51:31 <UukGoblin> that's a log of ping timeouts in a minute
1020 2011-07-13 09:51:56 <lfm> theyr all the same guy
1021 2011-07-13 09:52:08 Nicksasa has joined
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1023 2011-07-13 09:52:35 <Zagitta> so much MS hate lfm
1024 2011-07-13 09:52:43 torsthaldo has joined
1025 2011-07-13 09:52:53 <lfm> oh is F# from MS?
1026 2011-07-13 09:53:04 <Zagitta> aye
1027 2011-07-13 09:53:20 Beccara_ has joined
1028 2011-07-13 09:53:20 <lfm> C# not good enuf for them
1029 2011-07-13 09:53:23 <UukGoblin> Zagitta, MS hate is well founded
1030 2011-07-13 09:53:25 redhatzero has joined
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1033 2011-07-13 09:54:00 <Zagitta> You guys have obviously NEVER worked with WPF
1034 2011-07-13 09:54:13 * lfm never heard of WPF
1035 2011-07-13 09:54:22 <UukGoblin> why would we want to?
1036 2011-07-13 09:54:35 <UukGoblin> it's got "windows" in its name
1037 2011-07-13 09:54:40 * UukGoblin stays away
1038 2011-07-13 09:54:55 <lfm> Does it run on Linux? no? thats why I never heard of it.
1039 2011-07-13 09:55:26 Beccara has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1040 2011-07-13 09:56:17 <UukGoblin> lfm, I'm sure you have heard of warcraft II or duke nukem 3d
1041 2011-07-13 09:56:18 <dsockwell> WPF?
1042 2011-07-13 09:56:36 <UukGoblin> dsockwell, they misspelled P for T
1043 2011-07-13 09:56:48 <dsockwell> ok
1044 2011-07-13 09:56:49 <lfm> UukGoblin: true, I have
1045 2011-07-13 09:56:58 <dsockwell> yeah it looks like a drag-and-drop GUI editor
1046 2011-07-13 09:57:05 <dsockwell> why do you want to waste my RAM Zagitta ?
1047 2011-07-13 09:57:28 <Zagitta> Different goals obviously have different solutions... but WPF is deffintly good if you want a good looking UI that doesn't take ages to create
1048 2011-07-13 09:57:28 torsthaldo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1049 2011-07-13 09:58:01 <Zagitta> dscockwell: want a few coins so you can buy more than 512mb?
1050 2011-07-13 09:58:03 <Zagitta> ;)
1051 2011-07-13 09:58:05 pixglen has joined
1052 2011-07-13 09:58:14 <UukGoblin> Zagitta, *G*UI
1053 2011-07-13 09:58:19 <UukGoblin> who needs GUIs anyway
1054 2011-07-13 09:58:36 <Zagitta> regular people
1055 2011-07-13 09:58:40 <UukGoblin> they're good for CAD, but regular work...
1056 2011-07-13 09:58:44 <dsockwell> Zagitta: I have 8GB on this machine
1057 2011-07-13 09:59:01 <dsockwell> and I'm horrified at how much of it is wasted by windowing systems
1058 2011-07-13 09:59:30 <lfm> Zagitta: Linux runs a hell of a lot better on any given amount of memory than mswin does, even 256mb
1059 2011-07-13 09:59:36 <UukGoblin> I have 4GB, and the 256-client limit to X is annoying
1060 2011-07-13 09:59:38 <Zagitta> agreed
1061 2011-07-13 09:59:49 repl has joined
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1063 2011-07-13 10:00:07 <UukGoblin> I only have 4x4 workspaces
1064 2011-07-13 10:00:16 <UukGoblin> and only about 10 terminals on each
1065 2011-07-13 10:00:23 <Zagitta> however windows gives an equally better user friendlyness poportional to the extra ram it uses...
1066 2011-07-13 10:00:37 liltoe has joined
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1068 2011-07-13 10:00:44 <dsockwell> what is user friendliness?
1069 2011-07-13 10:00:45 <UukGoblin> Zagitta, depends what's a user
1070 2011-07-13 10:00:50 * UukGoblin isn't one ;-]
1071 2011-07-13 10:01:11 <lfm> ya mswin may be better for people who know nothing about computers. that does not explain why you like it Zagitta
1072 2011-07-13 10:01:26 <midnightmagic> "Meanwhile, as previously mentioned, the mining cluster is ready for production, we will publish technical specifications tomorrow and open orders briefly later."
1073 2011-07-13 10:01:36 datagutt has joined
1074 2011-07-13 10:01:40 <midnightmagic> well. asicminer a possibility after all?
1075 2011-07-13 10:01:44 <Zagitta> i like it because i play games
1076 2011-07-13 10:01:47 torsthaldo has joined
1077 2011-07-13 10:01:53 <midnightmagic> who's gonne be the first to try and order it?
1078 2011-07-13 10:02:24 <UukGoblin> midnightmagic, I've already maxed out my home power supply
1079 2011-07-13 10:02:31 <dsockwell> guys, listen, Linux is a cool front-end and optimization for MS windows, but in the end Linux users are pirating MS core DLLs. It's still against IP laws to run a computer without a Windows license.
1080 2011-07-13 10:02:40 <UukGoblin> and I don't think I want to exchange my GPUs for ASICs...
1081 2011-07-13 10:03:01 yebyen has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1082 2011-07-13 10:03:15 <lfm> dsockwell: Huh? I can only assume that was meant to be humourous.
1083 2011-07-13 10:03:29 <dsockwell> I mean it's a neat project, and a fun toy
1084 2011-07-13 10:03:30 <Zagitta> obviously it's sarcasm
1085 2011-07-13 10:03:32 <midnightmagic> UukGoblin: no? is it for the general-purpose-ness of the GPU miners?
1086 2011-07-13 10:04:01 <UukGoblin> midnightmagic, yeah... and better sellability in case of SNAFUs
1087 2011-07-13 10:04:09 WakiMiko_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1088 2011-07-13 10:04:10 <midnightmagic> hrm..
1089 2011-07-13 10:04:13 <dsockwell> but linux is an unacceptable liability for anyone but the hobbyist.
1090 2011-07-13 10:04:25 <UukGoblin> midnightmagic, how much is an ASIC mining platform going to cost anyway?
1091 2011-07-13 10:04:51 Nicksasa_ has joined
1092 2011-07-13 10:04:59 torsthaldo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1093 2011-07-13 10:05:16 <midnightmagic> UukGoblin: $200-$250 per child board, each one doing ~ 500MH/s.
1094 2011-07-13 10:05:27 earthmeLon has joined
1095 2011-07-13 10:05:41 <UukGoblin> midnightmagic, that's cheap! what about the parent board?
1096 2011-07-13 10:05:43 <dsockwell> midnightmagic: is this your own project?
1097 2011-07-13 10:05:50 <midnightmagic> dsockwell: god no.
1098 2011-07-13 10:05:52 <dsockwell> ok
1099 2011-07-13 10:05:56 Leo_II has joined
1100 2011-07-13 10:06:09 <dsockwell> because it's better to leave computer stuff to the professionals
1101 2011-07-13 10:06:13 <midnightmagic> UukGoblin: not a clue. but who knows if this thing even exists, the blog is all over the place.
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1104 2011-07-13 10:06:28 <UukGoblin> midnightmagic, ah.
1105 2011-07-13 10:06:39 <midnightmagic> asicminer.net
1106 2011-07-13 10:06:50 <UukGoblin> lol
1107 2011-07-13 10:06:51 pyro_ is now known as Guest8415
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1109 2011-07-13 10:07:02 <UukGoblin> Security risk blocked for your protection
1110 2011-07-13 10:07:03 <UukGoblin> Reason:
1111 2011-07-13 10:07:03 <UukGoblin> This Websense category is filtered: Potentially Damaging Content. Sites in this category may pose a security threat to network resources or private information, and are blocked by your organization.
1112 2011-07-13 10:07:15 <UukGoblin> (re asicminer.net)
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1114 2011-07-13 10:07:49 <midnightmagic> UukGoblin: but, hilariously enough they have an OGD1 system there they claim is doing 300MH/s. *I* have an OGD1..! I want that damn design! lol
1115 2011-07-13 10:07:49 <lfm> Is this Art Forzz's thing then?
1116 2011-07-13 10:07:54 <midnightmagic> lfm: doubt it.
1117 2011-07-13 10:08:13 <dsockwell> good, UukGoblin, amateur software is definitely a risk to the integrity of your Windows machine.
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1119 2011-07-13 10:08:22 <lfm> It claims to be the first asci miner
1120 2011-07-13 10:08:26 <lfm> asic
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1144 2011-07-13 10:08:56 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, obvious donation bait is obvious
1145 2011-07-13 10:08:59 <midnightmagic> i got.. like the second OGD1 ever produced, and probably the first one ever sold.
1146 2011-07-13 10:09:12 agricocb has joined
1147 2011-07-13 10:09:17 <midnightmagic> phantomcircuit: so it seems. :) but they did set themselves a deadline.
1148 2011-07-13 10:09:19 glitch-mod has joined
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1151 2011-07-13 10:10:18 <UukGoblin> "by using the 8 Giga\hash raw power of the device, the whole hash space is scanned at very fast rates and at random multiple ranges, multiple times." <- wtf is that supposed to mean
1152 2011-07-13 10:10:27 <lfm> We did so by adding a oil-cooling system, yikes
1153 2011-07-13 10:10:30 <midnightmagic> yeah see? that's what i'm talking about.
1154 2011-07-13 10:10:32 <UukGoblin> the whole hash space is 2^256
1155 2011-07-13 10:10:44 <UukGoblin> you can't scan it even once
1156 2011-07-13 10:10:46 <midnightmagic> but they might just be talking about a single work unit.
1157 2011-07-13 10:10:47 f33x has quit (Quit: f33x)
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1159 2011-07-13 10:10:55 <midnightmagic> bad english and all
1160 2011-07-13 10:11:10 sytse has joined
1161 2011-07-13 10:11:23 <lfm> and their reliability must suck if they think they should scan multiple times
1162 2011-07-13 10:11:27 <midnightmagic> marketdroid doing the blog updates.. i mean who knows.
1163 2011-07-13 10:11:33 hachque has joined
1164 2011-07-13 10:11:43 <dsockwell> UukGoblin: seemed like they were using testnet, is that still 256 bits?
1165 2011-07-13 10:12:26 <UukGoblin> dsockwell, I've no idea what you're talking about
1166 2011-07-13 10:12:46 <midnightmagic> grumpy sock is grumpy
1167 2011-07-13 10:15:27 <lfm> testnet is also 256 bit hashes, yes.
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1176 2011-07-13 10:19:03 <Zagitta> hmm... asuming it takes 1 million shares for one round and i can get away with storing only the nonce of 4 bytes, that's almost 4 gigs of ram... That sure as hell is going to make the garbage collector choke
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1178 2011-07-13 10:20:21 <dsockwell> what?
1179 2011-07-13 10:20:27 Backburn has quit ()
1180 2011-07-13 10:20:30 <dsockwell> 1 million * 4 = 4 billion?
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1183 2011-07-13 10:20:59 <lfm> dsockwell: he is trying to figure out how to detect and prevent duplicate shares for his new miner
1184 2011-07-13 10:21:23 <dsockwell> i don't understand where the factor of 1000 comes from
1185 2011-07-13 10:21:26 <Zagitta> 4 milion bytes / 1024 bytes = 3900 mb afaik
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1187 2011-07-13 10:22:18 <dsockwell> it sounds like you're just talking about 4 megabytes per round
1188 2011-07-13 10:23:07 <lfm> It must me microsoft arithmetic v2.0
1189 2011-07-13 10:23:14 <Zagitta> ofc i'm an idiot
1190 2011-07-13 10:23:15 <lfm> must be
1191 2011-07-13 10:23:27 <Zagitta> skipped the kilobyte part
1192 2011-07-13 10:23:42 <dsockwell> i mean
1193 2011-07-13 10:23:58 <dsockwell> yeah i was going to play the C# card sooner or later
1194 2011-07-13 10:25:18 * lfm wonders if he has considered miners upping the timestamp
1195 2011-07-13 10:26:38 <Zagitta> what difference is that going to have on the nonce?
1196 2011-07-13 10:26:47 <lfm> hehehehehe
1197 2011-07-13 10:27:14 <dsockwell> so you're using a 4096 bit nonce?
1198 2011-07-13 10:27:27 <dsockwell> er
1199 2011-07-13 10:27:29 <lfm> naw just 64
1200 2011-07-13 10:27:38 <dsockwell> shit
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1202 2011-07-13 10:27:49 <dsockwell> something is making me stupid tonight
1203 2011-07-13 10:27:59 <forrestv> Zagitta, why not just store the hashes of the shares?
1204 2011-07-13 10:28:08 <dsockwell> i mean more so than usual
1205 2011-07-13 10:28:08 <lfm> not to mention the exranonce
1206 2011-07-13 10:28:10 kreal- has joined
1207 2011-07-13 10:28:20 <Zagitta> dsockwell: welcome to the club
1208 2011-07-13 10:28:21 <lfm> extranonce
1209 2011-07-13 10:29:50 <UukGoblin> thought the nonce was 32bit
1210 2011-07-13 10:30:05 <Zagitta> forresttv: isn't that both more cpu and memory intensive than storing the nonce only?
1211 2011-07-13 10:30:10 <dsockwell> i thought it was 32kbit
1212 2011-07-13 10:30:21 <lfm> ya, well in certain ways one might consider the timestamp to be an extension of the nonce
1213 2011-07-13 10:30:36 <dsockwell> Zagitta: is it 32bit or 32kbit?
1214 2011-07-13 10:30:41 <UukGoblin> same as the privkey may be an extension to it
1215 2011-07-13 10:30:46 <Zagitta> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm says nonce is 32bit
1216 2011-07-13 10:30:46 <lfm> also the xtranonce is variable size, whatever you want
1217 2011-07-13 10:30:48 <sipa> the block header nonce is 32 bits
1218 2011-07-13 10:30:53 <dsockwell> oh ok
1219 2011-07-13 10:30:57 <dsockwell> then wtf are you worried about
1220 2011-07-13 10:30:59 <sipa> and extranonce is variable length
1221 2011-07-13 10:31:13 <dsockwell> that's a great use for 4 megabytes
1222 2011-07-13 10:31:27 <Zagitta> i'm not worried anymore, i was just being an idiot when i converted from bytes to mb
1223 2011-07-13 10:31:33 <dsockwell> ah
1224 2011-07-13 10:31:41 <dsockwell> well i could have told you that ;)
1225 2011-07-13 10:31:43 yebyen has joined
1226 2011-07-13 10:31:51 <lfm> sipa ya, well in certain ways one might consider the timestamp to be an extension of the nonce
1227 2011-07-13 10:32:16 <Zagitta> i don't need anyone to tell me i'm an idiot... that's one of the few things i'm good at myself :P
1228 2011-07-13 10:32:18 <dsockwell> lfm: that would require some synchronization though right?
1229 2011-07-13 10:32:29 <dsockwell> or, no
1230 2011-07-13 10:32:35 <dsockwell> if the miners only use server time
1231 2011-07-13 10:32:51 <dsockwell> ...
1232 2011-07-13 10:33:19 <lfm> so long as you use timestamps that are within a few minutes of actual time, you are fine
1233 2011-07-13 10:33:23 f33x has joined
1234 2011-07-13 10:33:58 <lfm> I have no idea what the current pool servers out there will do with them
1235 2011-07-13 10:35:42 <dsockwell> jfc
1236 2011-07-13 10:35:51 <sipa> you have a 70-minute window to choose from for the timestamp, right?
1237 2011-07-13 10:35:52 <lfm> If you look at the reference miner in bitcoin it treats the timestamp sorta like an overflow for the nonce
1238 2011-07-13 10:35:53 <dsockwell> afk, i can't stand this any more
1239 2011-07-13 10:36:14 <sipa> that's 12 extra bits of nonce indeed, though it has some meaning as well
1240 2011-07-13 10:36:19 <Zagitta> a question: Isn't the nonce the variable that miners increase untill it overflows and then requests new work? if so how exactly does it help storing the nonce if it will be changed when i get it back?
1241 2011-07-13 10:36:39 <sipa> hmm?
1242 2011-07-13 10:36:59 <sipa> Zagitta: what are you doing exactly?
1243 2011-07-13 10:37:41 <dsockwell> wut
1244 2011-07-13 10:37:51 <lfm> sipa: he is trying to figure out how to detect and prevent duplicate shares for his new miner
1245 2011-07-13 10:38:09 <lfm> for for his pool server I should say
1246 2011-07-13 10:38:10 <dsockwell> Zagitta: a nonce is a secret between alice and bob so that they know zha zha isn't doing a replay attack
1247 2011-07-13 10:38:36 <UukGoblin> this is fucking weird
1248 2011-07-13 10:38:36 <Zagitta> i think i missunderstood what i was supposed to store
1249 2011-07-13 10:38:41 <lfm> dsockwell: well, not quite in this sense
1250 2011-07-13 10:38:46 <UukGoblin> I haven't found a block in 12 days at 21Ghash/sec
1251 2011-07-13 10:38:48 <dsockwell> oh?
1252 2011-07-13 10:38:51 <sipa> Zagitta: you store the nonces per getwork that were returned
1253 2011-07-13 10:38:58 <sipa> ;;bc,prob 21000000 12d
1254 2011-07-13 10:38:59 <gribble> 0.960965291035
1255 2011-07-13 10:39:20 <sipa> Zagitta: on average, there will be only one such nonce per getwork
1256 2011-07-13 10:39:21 <UukGoblin> quite high, eh?
1257 2011-07-13 10:39:39 <lfm> UukGoblin: unless of course you have a bug
1258 2011-07-13 10:40:16 <Zagitta> yeah i was thinking that i should store something when i give a miner the work it request AKA i was being stupid again
1259 2011-07-13 10:40:22 <lfm> sipa assuming he is using difficulty 1.0
1260 2011-07-13 10:40:23 <UukGoblin> lfm, nothing's really changed from the previous month where I did find some blocks
1261 2011-07-13 10:40:30 <Zagitta> thanks a bunch, i think i got it now
1262 2011-07-13 10:41:10 <dsockwell> ;;bc,prob 21000000 7d
1263 2011-07-13 10:41:10 <gribble> 0.849219081342
1264 2011-07-13 10:41:18 <dsockwell> ;;bc,prob 21000000 1d
1265 2011-07-13 10:41:19 <gribble> 0.23683066406
1266 2011-07-13 10:41:49 <dsockwell> UukGoblin: do you think you could be getting screwed by difficulty increases?
1267 2011-07-13 10:41:57 <dsockwell> when was the last one?
1268 2011-07-13 10:43:01 <UukGoblin> I did find 5212374 "attempts" in the last 12 days
1269 2011-07-13 10:43:10 <lfm> 2011-07-06 20:35:46,
1270 2011-07-13 10:43:12 coderrr has joined
1271 2011-07-13 10:43:27 <lfm> last diff change ^^
1272 2011-07-13 10:44:07 <sipa> lfm: if the difficulty is 1.00000000000, he'll get 1.000015259 (distinct) nonces per share :)
1273 2011-07-13 10:44:25 danbri has joined
1274 2011-07-13 10:45:56 <Zagitta> sipa: so there's a tiny chance i'm discarding propper work by checking if the nonce already exists?
1275 2011-07-13 10:46:05 <sipa> ?
1276 2011-07-13 10:46:15 <lfm> sipa: close enuf
1277 2011-07-13 10:47:02 <lfm> Zagitta: kinda depends how many miners and what speed they are
1278 2011-07-13 10:47:50 <Zagitta> lfm: i see
1279 2011-07-13 10:48:41 <lfm> if they're slow like a cpu then they will be unlikely to overflo to updating the timestamp
1280 2011-07-13 10:51:04 <Zagitta> hmm
1281 2011-07-13 10:51:10 ThomasV has joined
1282 2011-07-13 10:55:23 <lfm> Hey we just passed 1 million transactions in the last few days
1283 2011-07-13 10:56:00 <lfm> (including coinbase txn)
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1285 2011-07-13 10:58:39 <sipa> ;;later tell jgarzik i made a mistake in fixing the synchronize default address - automatically generated addresses are not added to the address book anymore
1286 2011-07-13 10:58:40 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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1291 2011-07-13 11:06:16 <sipa> lfm: in total?
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1295 2011-07-13 11:07:49 <lfm> sipa ya, total in the regular block chain
1296 2011-07-13 11:08:45 <lfm> got a ways to go yet to match visa millions per day
1297 2011-07-13 11:09:27 <Zagitta> does anyone happen to know a good way of running collection.Contains(object) concurrently when there might be added objects to the collection while enumerating?
1298 2011-07-13 11:10:17 Marf has joined
1299 2011-07-13 11:11:29 Stellar has joined
1300 2011-07-13 11:12:58 <sytse> hmm.. apparently, the date information has been lost entirely on mtgox transactions before mtgox went down for a week. Is there a file with (transaction id, date) mappings for all old transactions somewhere?
1301 2011-07-13 11:13:10 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1302 2011-07-13 11:13:24 <sytse> (at least I don't get dates at getTrades.php)
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1305 2011-07-13 11:15:49 <justmoon> sytse, you might have more luck in #mtgox
1306 2011-07-13 11:16:39 <BlueMatt> sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/404
1307 2011-07-13 11:17:17 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Matt Corallo master * rd5e9d00 / src/makefile.linux-mingw : Fix makefile.linux-mingw - http://bit.ly/rffRB9 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/d5e9d0000d68548f10b43dfa1fa3a8ef11b91003
1308 2011-07-13 11:17:17 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Pieter Wuille master * r225e60c / src/makefile.linux-mingw : Merge pull request #404 from TheBlueMatt/newenc ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/225e60ce34d8756f23e7e76b545131601f60e1dc
1309 2011-07-13 11:17:41 <sytse> justmoon: good point.
1310 2011-07-13 11:17:54 wolfspraul has joined
1311 2011-07-13 11:18:04 <sipa> i wonder how "sent to change address" transactions show up in the gui
1312 2011-07-13 11:19:29 <sipa> ok, it'll just show "Received with: <address>"
1313 2011-07-13 11:19:33 genjix_ is now known as genjix
1314 2011-07-13 11:19:50 <lfm> sipa you mean like a refund or something?
1315 2011-07-13 11:20:00 <sipa> lfm: could be, just in general
1316 2011-07-13 11:20:03 genjix has left ()
1317 2011-07-13 11:20:18 <sipa> 0.3.24 has a bug (my fault) that does not add autogenerated addresses to the address book
1318 2011-07-13 11:20:32 <sipa> and receiving addresses without entry in the address book are considered change addresses
1319 2011-07-13 11:21:18 noagendamarket has joined
1320 2011-07-13 11:21:24 <lfm> oh so the keys are ok, just not filed quite right?
1321 2011-07-13 11:21:30 <sipa> indeed
1322 2011-07-13 11:21:35 <BlueMatt> why did jgarzik tag the current git head 0.3.25, I thought the definition of 0.4 was wallet encryption...
1323 2011-07-13 11:21:44 <sipa> BlueMatt: read the commit msg
1324 2011-07-13 11:22:21 <BlueMatt> ok, still...
1325 2011-07-13 11:22:27 <BlueMatt> not that it matters, was just complaining...
1326 2011-07-13 11:29:24 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #1: FAILURE in 6 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin-Test/1/
1327 2011-07-13 11:29:33 <BlueMatt> wtf
1328 2011-07-13 11:29:40 <BlueMatt> oh, why did that build?
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1335 2011-07-13 11:37:36 <BlueMattBot> Yippie, build fixed!
1336 2011-07-13 11:37:36 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin build #92: FIXED in 20 min: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin/92/
1337 2011-07-13 11:37:37 <BlueMattBot> matt: Fix makefile.linux-mingw
1338 2011-07-13 11:37:50 <BlueMatt> :) :) :) :)
1339 2011-07-13 11:40:54 hachque has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1341 2011-07-13 11:41:46 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1342 2011-07-13 11:43:05 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #2: STILL FAILING in 11 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin-Test/2/
1343 2011-07-13 11:45:37 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #3: STILL FAILING in 2.4 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin-Test/3/
1344 2011-07-13 11:45:48 <MrSam> lol
1345 2011-07-13 11:45:53 <MrSam> BlueMattBot: git config !
1346 2011-07-13 11:45:53 <BlueMattBot> MrSam did you mean me? Unknown command 'git'
1347 2011-07-13 11:45:53 <BlueMattBot> Use 'BlueMattBot-hide-me: help' to get help!
1348 2011-07-13 11:46:18 erus` has joined
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1350 2011-07-13 11:46:53 <erus`> my github news feed looks like bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin
1351 2011-07-13 11:47:40 BlueMattBot has joined
1352 2011-07-13 11:47:50 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #4: STILL FAILING in 9.9 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin-Test/4/
1353 2011-07-13 11:48:07 anarchyx has joined
1354 2011-07-13 11:48:16 <BlueMatt> ok good, now its failing due to the issues in the repo...
1355 2011-07-13 11:48:19 anarchyx has quit (Changing host)
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1357 2011-07-13 11:49:30 <sipa> hmm, there are currently pull requests for pay-to-url and for sign-arbitrary-data
1358 2011-07-13 11:49:38 <sipa> i think there is a very interesting way to combine them
1359 2011-07-13 11:49:46 vigilyn has joined
1360 2011-07-13 11:49:50 <sipa> have a url which includes a bitcoin address
1361 2011-07-13 11:50:13 dvide has joined
1362 2011-07-13 11:50:28 <sipa> and the data retrieved by fetching the url, should including a data signature that corresponds to the bitcoin address in the url
1363 2011-07-13 11:51:48 <sipa> that way you can give someone a URL they can pay to, but the URL itself can give a separate address to each payee
1364 2011-07-13 11:52:23 <BlueMatt> that seems over-complicated...at the point give each user a different url
1365 2011-07-13 11:52:39 <BlueMatt> and also bad for privacy - they get your ip
1366 2011-07-13 11:52:43 <sipa> eh
1367 2011-07-13 11:52:59 <sipa> you could as well give each payer just a separate address
1368 2011-07-13 11:53:03 <sipa> but you can't do that dynamically
1369 2011-07-13 11:53:50 <sipa> i want to let each payer get a different address, but i want them to be able to verify that it's verified by me
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1375 2011-07-13 12:03:00 <makomk> midnightmagic: I don't believe them about the OGD1, somehow.
1376 2011-07-13 12:06:09 <sacarlson> hay I have an idea a gps race you put the key number on a peace of paper or object that you hide at a location. you somehow give hints where to find this object with the number one it. you can't move the object but when you get the number you have to be first to find a way to capture the walet
1377 2011-07-13 12:06:48 <sacarlson> you provide gps lat long and hints to find it
1378 2011-07-13 12:08:49 <sacarlson> I guess they would have to be some what local games or no the same walet data could be repeated in many places in the world
1379 2011-07-13 12:08:55 <ThomasV> I am using http://jeromeetienne.github.com/jquery-qrcode/ ; any idea why it requires a type 5 qr code in order to store a bitcoin address ? type 3 should be enough...
1380 2011-07-13 12:10:59 <tcatm> who runs bitomat.pl?
1381 2011-07-13 12:11:07 <sacarlson> oh and I changed the 4 byte magic number on the weedsnet today as documented http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24209.0 and the new weeds config found here http://exchange.beertokens.info/docs/multicoin/bitcoin.conf.weeds
1382 2011-07-13 12:11:20 Sedra has joined
1383 2011-07-13 12:13:19 <sacarlson> the above would be the scavanger hunt of the future paid for by advertizers or paid entry to get the hints
1384 2011-07-13 12:14:35 <sacarlson> ok no interest here I'll stop rambling sorry
1385 2011-07-13 12:15:54 <Zagitta> sacarlson: something like that already exists just without bitcoin involvement
1386 2011-07-13 12:16:01 <Zagitta> also
1387 2011-07-13 12:16:08 <Zagitta> BigInteger is pissing me off: http://pastebin.com/EHVw48KW
1388 2011-07-13 12:16:19 <sacarlson> Zagitta: I'll take a look
1389 2011-07-13 12:16:51 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1390 2011-07-13 12:17:18 <sacarlson> Zagitta: I don't see any connection
1391 2011-07-13 12:17:54 <sacarlson> Zagitta: oh I thought the pastbin was a link to what your were talking about
1392 2011-07-13 12:17:55 hachque_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1393 2011-07-13 12:18:06 <Zagitta> sacarlson: i don't get why it's failing either... anyway i remember the thing you're talking about, it's called geocaching: http://www.geocaching.com/
1394 2011-07-13 12:19:05 <sacarlson> Zagitta: I'm looking at it, but publicity like that could also put bitcoin on the map
1395 2011-07-13 12:19:23 <Zagitta> yeah just had the same thought...
1396 2011-07-13 12:19:24 skeledrew has joined
1397 2011-07-13 12:21:39 <sacarlson> Zagitta: ya that adds even more as you can have evedence of the order that you found the article in 3d space by what other document in secret as merkleblocks to get the 2nd and Xnd place winnings
1398 2011-07-13 12:22:24 <Zagitta> sacarlson: huh? didn't catch any of that
1399 2011-07-13 12:22:25 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1400 2011-07-13 12:23:09 moa7 has left ()
1401 2011-07-13 12:23:36 <sacarlson> Zagitta: I should say the pzatimestamp sting could be added by each group that find it to put there order into the winings of more than one finder
1402 2011-07-13 12:24:02 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1403 2011-07-13 12:25:07 <Zagitta> sacarlson: good idea
1404 2011-07-13 12:25:45 <sacarlson> each time some group find the location with the info they add another string or sentance like "we were here with wendy on 3/13/12 when we found it"
1405 2011-07-13 12:26:08 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1406 2011-07-13 12:27:08 <sacarlson> and to get more hints you give more clues from each of the advertizers sites you must vist to find them
1407 2011-07-13 12:27:54 molecular has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1408 2011-07-13 12:27:59 <sacarlson> so since the advertizer gets more trafic form people looking for clues they help pay for tha bounty
1409 2011-07-13 12:28:51 Blitzboom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1410 2011-07-13 12:28:55 <sacarlson> ok magic wand waves make it so
1411 2011-07-13 12:29:39 hachque has joined
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1413 2011-07-13 12:33:47 Blitzboom has joined
1414 2011-07-13 12:34:10 <sacarlson> ok next on the list of thing I need to add to MultiCoin is the ablility to transact namecoin transactions. any one can tell me the big differences other than the IRC boostrap and the 4 byte magic code and the 1 byte address header that I need to know to transact this type of coin?
1415 2011-07-13 12:34:52 Gonzago has joined
1416 2011-07-13 12:34:57 <spq> Zagitta: what do you think will integer division of X / Y do, if Y > X ?
1417 2011-07-13 12:35:45 kokjo has joined
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1420 2011-07-13 12:38:16 <Zagitta> spg: result is zero, but why exactly is y > x? did i swap something around compared to the wiki?
1421 2011-07-13 12:38:34 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1422 2011-07-13 12:38:55 <spq> compare the comments, where you say correctly results in...
1423 2011-07-13 12:39:37 stalled has joined
1424 2011-07-13 12:39:53 <spq> you missed the part thats involved in the shifting of the number
1425 2011-07-13 12:39:59 <spq> 2**(8*(0x1b - 3)) was only an example!
1426 2011-07-13 12:40:40 <spq> (0x1b was the example here iirc)
1427 2011-07-13 12:40:41 <Zagitta> ** in my book is raising to the power of something
1428 2011-07-13 12:41:19 Avemo_ has joined
1429 2011-07-13 12:41:49 <spq> its simple left shifting by whole bytes <first byte as uint8> - 3 or something
1430 2011-07-13 12:42:03 klikklak has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
1431 2011-07-13 12:42:35 <Avemo_> I am observing 800 connections on my bitcoind (it is the max allowed in conifg), usually it is just 50-60, should I be concerned?
1432 2011-07-13 12:42:58 klikklak has joined
1433 2011-07-13 12:43:03 minimoose has joined
1434 2011-07-13 12:43:49 <Avemo_> I am basically wondering if there is new code with DNS based bootstrap or if it is an attack
1435 2011-07-13 12:43:59 <Eliel_> Avemo_: I've seen loads of connections randomly too, it's usually just a few though
1436 2011-07-13 12:47:11 <Zagitta> spq: thanks, although i'm even more confused now lol
1437 2011-07-13 12:47:34 <spq> Zagitta: yw ;)
1438 2011-07-13 12:48:38 f33x has quit (Quit: f33x)
1439 2011-07-13 12:49:15 <Zagitta> i wish there was some better pesudo code for it
1440 2011-07-13 12:49:54 Diablo-D3 has joined
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1443 2011-07-13 12:51:34 peck has quit (Quit: I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I think.)
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1447 2011-07-13 12:57:11 sipa has joined
1448 2011-07-13 12:57:36 <sipa> BlueMatt: apparently i misread a bit - you write the bitcoind version in the minversion field?
1449 2011-07-13 12:57:55 <BlueMatt> yea
1450 2011-07-13 12:57:56 <BlueMatt> why?
1451 2011-07-13 12:58:20 <sipa> i thought it would be a separate wallet version number, that could increase independently
1452 2011-07-13 12:58:24 E-sense has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1453 2011-07-13 12:58:37 <BlueMatt> no, does it really matter though
1454 2011-07-13 12:59:05 <BlueMatt> I kinda doubt many alternate clients will use the same wallet storage so...
1455 2011-07-13 12:59:09 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1456 2011-07-13 12:59:18 <sipa> it makes it harder for bitcointools-like things
1457 2011-07-13 12:59:36 <BlueMatt> not really, they just have to read the version and compare to what it knows to implement
1458 2011-07-13 12:59:44 kermit has joined
1459 2011-07-13 12:59:51 <sipa> and eg when changing the version from 0.3.25 to 0.4.0, we should make sure 0.3.25 keeps being written
1460 2011-07-13 12:59:55 <BlueMatt> no harder than net stuff...
1461 2011-07-13 13:00:07 <sipa> or you cause pointless incompatibilities
1462 2011-07-13 13:00:19 <BlueMatt> well it currently doesnt write any version to the file
1463 2011-07-13 13:00:21 <BlueMatt> just compares
1464 2011-07-13 13:00:28 <sipa> right
1465 2011-07-13 13:00:29 <BlueMatt> (as wallet crypto already breaks old nodes)
1466 2011-07-13 13:00:41 <BlueMatt> you can change the compare if you want, I dont care, just need something there
1467 2011-07-13 13:04:51 fnord0 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1468 2011-07-13 13:07:36 malaimo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1469 2011-07-13 13:08:15 hachque_ has joined
1470 2011-07-13 13:08:17 fnord0 has joined
1471 2011-07-13 13:08:30 <MrSam> aah
1472 2011-07-13 13:08:36 <MrSam> 1716154.362981] possible SYN flooding on port ****. Sending cookies.
1473 2011-07-13 13:08:41 <MrSam> the perks of running a pool
1474 2011-07-13 13:08:49 <MrSam> free incoming traffic
1475 2011-07-13 13:08:59 hachque has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1476 2011-07-13 13:09:29 scott`_ has joined
1477 2011-07-13 13:10:14 netxshare has joined
1478 2011-07-13 13:13:53 <Zagitta> MrSam: it's the pushpool's RPC port that gets ddos'ed right?
1479 2011-07-13 13:13:58 <MrSam> yeah
1480 2011-07-13 13:14:13 <MrSam> no biggie, had to increase ulimit
1481 2011-07-13 13:14:38 <MrSam> allready working on a firewallscript
1482 2011-07-13 13:14:51 peck has joined
1483 2011-07-13 13:15:06 lesh has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1484 2011-07-13 13:15:55 lesh has joined
1485 2011-07-13 13:16:39 <Zagitta> are they sending propper RCP requests or are they just empty requests?
1486 2011-07-13 13:16:50 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1487 2011-07-13 13:16:57 <[Tycho]> What pool is ddosed ?
1488 2011-07-13 13:17:21 <MrSam> every pool every day ? :p
1489 2011-07-13 13:17:29 <[Tycho]> I mean, this time
1490 2011-07-13 13:17:34 <xelister> you are not checking up on your ddos oreders? :P
1491 2011-07-13 13:17:59 <dsockwell> this is why we can't have nice things tycho
1492 2011-07-13 13:18:14 AndyBr has joined
1493 2011-07-13 13:18:36 <AndyBr> g'day
1494 2011-07-13 13:18:37 <MrSam> i should create an ipad app
1495 2011-07-13 13:18:39 <MrSam> Angry miners
1496 2011-07-13 13:18:46 <Zagitta> haha
1497 2011-07-13 13:18:59 <MrSam> for miners that only use cpu, and are now using it for ping -p and bragging that they are hackers
1498 2011-07-13 13:19:07 <MrSam> ping -f even
1499 2011-07-13 13:19:25 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1500 2011-07-13 13:20:05 <dsockwell> there's already a parody comic, angry nerds
1501 2011-07-13 13:20:35 <D0han> link?
1502 2011-07-13 13:20:35 <MrSam> :P
1503 2011-07-13 13:20:53 <MrSam> http://www.atlassian.com/en/angrynerds
1504 2011-07-13 13:21:18 <Zagitta> regarding the way that difficulty is stored in blocks, is that packing custom or widly used so i can go read up on it on my own?
1505 2011-07-13 13:23:14 <forrestv> Zagitta, custom
1506 2011-07-13 13:23:31 <forrestv> sadly
1507 2011-07-13 13:23:34 <Zagitta> :[
1508 2011-07-13 13:23:43 molecular has joined
1509 2011-07-13 13:25:05 <Zagitta> why on earth didn't it occur to me before now that i could just look at bitcoinsharp's code...
1510 2011-07-13 13:26:00 <Diablo-D3> http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/89710-the-fanless-spinning-heatsink-the-heatsink-is-the-fan
1511 2011-07-13 13:26:03 <Diablo-D3> dear lord people are stupid
1512 2011-07-13 13:27:11 <dsockwell> what
1513 2011-07-13 13:27:33 <dsockwell> it looks like he just took the impeller off of a regular hsf
1514 2011-07-13 13:27:57 <Diablo-D3> dsockwell: no
1515 2011-07-13 13:28:04 <Diablo-D3> he made the heatsink the shape of an impeller
1516 2011-07-13 13:28:07 <Diablo-D3> and is spinning the heatsink
1517 2011-07-13 13:28:24 <Diablo-D3> in other words, the fan is now a heatsink
1518 2011-07-13 13:28:43 <edGe06> but..how.. spinning...
1519 2011-07-13 13:28:51 <Diablo-D3> edGe06: I havent figured that part out yet
1520 2011-07-13 13:29:07 <Diablo-D3> I assume its a central heatpipe and a liquid transfer
1521 2011-07-13 13:29:13 <Marf> no
1522 2011-07-13 13:29:26 <dsockwell> just what everyone needed, a passive component that's more prone to breaking
1523 2011-07-13 13:29:32 <Marf> it hovers like an tablehookpuck
1524 2011-07-13 13:29:41 <dsockwell> quick, let's make capacitors spin too
1525 2011-07-13 13:29:42 <Marf> 0.2 mm of air
1526 2011-07-13 13:29:46 <Diablo-D3> Marf: yeah but how do you get the heat into the rotating heatsink fins
1527 2011-07-13 13:29:54 <edGe06> yeah Marf is right, on 0.001" of air
1528 2011-07-13 13:29:56 <Marf> over that 0.2 mm air
1529 2011-07-13 13:30:03 <Diablo-D3> that sounds retarded
1530 2011-07-13 13:30:14 <dsockwell> that does in fact sound retarded
1531 2011-07-13 13:30:34 <Diablo-D3> air is extremely shitty at thermal transfers
1532 2011-07-13 13:30:37 <edGe06> sounds like it could easily fuck up
1533 2011-07-13 13:30:40 <Diablo-D3> and thats very easy to get dirty
1534 2011-07-13 13:31:05 <Marf> it spins so fast it doesnt get dirty, says the inventor
1535 2011-07-13 13:31:16 <dsockwell> that's the stupidest thing i've ever heared
1536 2011-07-13 13:31:17 <Diablo-D3> the high pressure clean effect is somewhat of a myth
1537 2011-07-13 13:31:26 <Marf> we will see
1538 2011-07-13 13:31:28 <Diablo-D3> it reduces dirt by a shitload
1539 2011-07-13 13:31:31 <Diablo-D3> but it still gets dirty
1540 2011-07-13 13:31:47 <Diablo-D3> although if the fan blades are driven in a way I can just pop the fan off
1541 2011-07-13 13:31:49 <dsockwell> dude should stick to cluster bombs
1542 2011-07-13 13:31:51 <Diablo-D3> then I can just clean it periodically
1543 2011-07-13 13:32:17 <edGe06> ill stick to my thermal paste, heatsink, and fan i can take apart and replace if needed :)
1544 2011-07-13 13:32:21 <Zagitta> diablo
1545 2011-07-13 13:32:24 <Zagitta> yes air is shitty
1546 2011-07-13 13:32:34 <Diablo-D3> Zagitta: I meant as opposed to pure copper
1547 2011-07-13 13:32:55 <Marf> i want supraconducter
1548 2011-07-13 13:33:03 <Zagitta> but if you read the whitepaper you see that because the fan is spinning the air in the gap gets turbulent and just like water that makes it transfer heat MUCH better
1549 2011-07-13 13:33:13 <Diablo-D3> but yeah, my idea works better
1550 2011-07-13 13:33:31 <Diablo-D3> take a central heatpipe, seal it with liquid metal in the gap
1551 2011-07-13 13:34:17 <Diablo-D3> then power it with a ring motor
1552 2011-07-13 13:39:01 <Diablo-D3> heh, you could make them huge too
1553 2011-07-13 13:39:07 <Diablo-D3> like really tall and wide
1554 2011-07-13 13:39:11 skeledrew1 has joined
1555 2011-07-13 13:39:16 <Diablo-D3> have it pull air from the board level
1556 2011-07-13 13:39:19 <Diablo-D3> and shove it out of the case
1557 2011-07-13 13:40:07 <Zagitta> forrestv: http://pastebin.com/xWePEjB8 :[ that's what it takes to unpack that custom packing in c# >< and i'm not even sure that it works (stolen from http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinsharp/source/browse/src/Core/Utils.cs#255)
1558 2011-07-13 13:41:17 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1560 2011-07-13 13:44:03 <forrestv> fun
1561 2011-07-13 13:44:58 ThomasV has joined
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1567 2011-07-13 13:49:11 <lfm> Diablo-D3: isnt that a standard heat pump?
1568 2011-07-13 13:49:26 jrmithdobbs has joined
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1577 2011-07-13 14:04:15 Incitatus has joined
1578 2011-07-13 14:04:39 <Incitatus> hi tcatm, i think my team would be happy to help you with your code
1579 2011-07-13 14:05:08 <Incitatus> tcatm, on the NYSE and legitimate platforms there are always these orders
1580 2011-07-13 14:05:39 <Incitatus> tcatm, it may be illegal actually to not allow people to sell them for what they want to, certainly price fixing is not good for bitcoin
1581 2011-07-13 14:06:24 <Incitatus> tcatm, also in the future you will be dealing with currencies like the Zimbabwe dollar and such so you will need to adapt your code and phantom has offered to help
1582 2011-07-13 14:07:21 ar4s has joined
1583 2011-07-13 14:07:21 <tcatm> I could easily deal with more digits. It's just a matter of migrating the database scheme. the problem is: how many digits are enough?
1584 2011-07-13 14:07:55 <Incitatus> ah, i see, there will always need to be some limitation you're right
1585 2011-07-13 14:08:02 <Incitatus> I never tought about that tcatm
1586 2011-07-13 14:08:06 <nanotube> tcatm: since it is illegal to not allow people to sell for what they want to, the answer is "infinity" :)
1587 2011-07-13 14:08:22 <nanotube> no go and comply with the law, you lawbreaker you!
1588 2011-07-13 14:08:24 <nanotube> hehe
1589 2011-07-13 14:08:43 <nanotube> s/no/now/
1590 2011-07-13 14:08:47 <Incitatus> well nanotube there are certainly currencies
1591 2011-07-13 14:08:51 <Incitatus> that deal in the billions
1592 2011-07-13 14:08:54 <tcatm> oh woah, that would surely inflate the database (which already is about 8 GB mostly decimals)
1593 2011-07-13 14:08:56 <Incitatus> for rather nominal amounts
1594 2011-07-13 14:09:05 <nanotube> yes i know Incitatus :)
1595 2011-07-13 14:09:28 <Incitatus> it also would have been nice to be told about this decisions
1596 2011-07-13 14:09:31 <Incitatus> decision*
1597 2011-07-13 14:09:34 <nanotube> but how do you deal with someone trying to sell 1 btc at 98732459872349872394872938472938470294850384609804598098450698234097 usd?
1598 2011-07-13 14:09:37 <lfm> Do they have actual 1 unit currency still?
1599 2011-07-13 14:09:41 <Incitatus> instead of being in the dark
1600 2011-07-13 14:10:01 <Incitatus> nanotube, that is more USD than exists in the world
1601 2011-07-13 14:10:06 <tcatm> Incitatus: what limit do you propose? currently it's 10.8
1602 2011-07-13 14:10:19 <Incitatus> perhaps we should limit to 21 mil BTC and 10 tril USD
1603 2011-07-13 14:10:25 <nanotube> Incitatus: not your problem, since you say it is illegal to not allow people to sell for what they want.
1604 2011-07-13 14:10:42 <nanotube> (just making fun of the law, not of you, of course)
1605 2011-07-13 14:10:50 <Incitatus> well, obv there are ceilings because of the amount incirculation
1606 2011-07-13 14:10:50 <nanotube> (if said law actually exists)
1607 2011-07-13 14:10:54 <lfm> if the currency doesnt exist you dont have to sell for that
1608 2011-07-13 14:11:14 <Incitatus> not sure of the law, but it just feels wrong to not allow people to do what they want
1609 2011-07-13 14:11:17 <Incitatus> with their GBP
1610 2011-07-13 14:11:24 <nanotube> heh ic
1611 2011-07-13 14:11:36 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1612 2011-07-13 14:12:49 <BlueMatt> "Mark Zuckerberg has decided to leave Google's new social network because he 'doesn't want to be tracked." lulwut????
1613 2011-07-13 14:13:19 <lfm> he's a tool, everyone knows it
1614 2011-07-13 14:13:44 <BlueMatt> he leaves g+ over privacy concerned, but stays on facebook?
1615 2011-07-13 14:14:24 <makomk> BlueMatt: propaganda, obviously.
1616 2011-07-13 14:14:39 <BlueMatt> no shit, was just so ironic its hilarious...
1617 2011-07-13 14:15:21 <lfm> he just doesnt want Google to track him. If someone pays him he's fine with it.
1618 2011-07-13 14:15:31 <sipa> Didn't quit (Score:4, Informative)
1619 2011-07-13 14:15:31 <sipa> by mother_reincarnated (1099781) on Wednesday July 13, @09:53AM (#36747922)
1620 2011-07-13 14:15:32 <sipa> The article (I know, I must leave now) does NOT say he quit G+. It says that he along with the top Mgmt at Google all seem to have opted for tighter privacy controls overnight. The number of friends and followers can no longer be *tracked*.
1621 2011-07-13 14:15:51 <xelister> well it /was/ google's CEO that said - "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to worry about."
1622 2011-07-13 14:15:57 danbri has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1623 2011-07-13 14:16:03 <BlueMatt> sipa: ah, my bad thats what I get for not reading comments...
1624 2011-07-13 14:16:10 <xelister> ok they kicked his stupid ass since, but still. bad evil corps =)
1625 2011-07-13 14:16:26 <sipa> BlueMatt: no, /. editor is to blame for not verifying the summary :)
1626 2011-07-13 14:16:32 <BlueMatt> well that too
1627 2011-07-13 14:16:39 <makomk> Of course, if it was Facebook I'm not sure he'd be able to lock down his account like that ;-)
1628 2011-07-13 14:16:41 <Incitatus> tcatm could you tell us in advance about these issues next time, we were doing this for months and we wake up today and had no idea why we weren't on bitcoinwatch
1629 2011-07-13 14:17:07 <lfm> and you'r wrong if you don't enjoy advertizing in every possible conceivable venue
1630 2011-07-13 14:17:52 Fireball has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1631 2011-07-13 14:19:17 <lfm> prolly he doesnt have freinds, just fans
1632 2011-07-13 14:19:24 <tcatm> Incitatus: I'm working on an automated email feature so the server will email exchange operators automatically when there are problems with the API.
1633 2011-07-13 14:20:14 <tcatm> Incitatus: for now you are free to check http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/status.html anytime there are problems
1634 2011-07-13 14:21:08 MartianW has quit (Quit: Bye all.)
1635 2011-07-13 14:22:33 <Incitatus> i see, tcatm, I understand though now that it's your unpublished dynamic limit
1636 2011-07-13 14:22:41 <Incitatus> and not your hard limit
1637 2011-07-13 14:23:17 <Incitatus> tcatm, have there been changes in this code because of mtgox reporting problems?
1638 2011-07-13 14:23:39 <tcatm> which code? the update script? no
1639 2011-07-13 14:23:47 karnac has joined
1640 2011-07-13 14:24:11 Akinava is now known as Akinava|away
1641 2011-07-13 14:25:33 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, 10.8?
1642 2011-07-13 14:25:45 <phantomcircuit> you mean you're using a NUMERIC(10,8) ?
1643 2011-07-13 14:27:49 <tcatm> DecimalField(max_digits=18, decimal_places=8)
1644 2011-07-13 14:27:49 iddo has joined
1645 2011-07-13 14:31:32 skeledrew1 has joined
1646 2011-07-13 14:31:45 <AndyBr> ^ mark zuckerberg leaves g+ because of privacy concerns? *blink fast 25 times*
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1655 2011-07-13 14:39:59 Akinava has quit (away!~lis@pff.eltel.net|Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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1658 2011-07-13 14:45:08 <OneTimePad> Can someone give me a command line example of sendmany? I keep getting a type mismatch
1659 2011-07-13 14:45:25 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, getDepth is now filtered such that only orders where the amount is < 10^8 will be shown
1660 2011-07-13 14:46:03 langley has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1661 2011-07-13 14:46:20 <UukGoblin> ah btw - wanted to ask - has anyone started any work on "intentional double-spends", the scenario where you want to re-send a transaction with a higher fee?
1662 2011-07-13 14:48:47 <iddo> in 0.4 client, wallet is encrypted with symmetric aes256, how do you add addresses beyond 100 without prompting the user for password?
1663 2011-07-13 14:49:08 <sipa> not
1664 2011-07-13 14:50:07 <OneTimePad> disregard, tossed my question in the wrong forum
1665 2011-07-13 14:50:31 <sipa> being able to do so was considered for a while, but it presents a security flaw: if keys can be added while the wallet is locked, an attacker with write access to your wallet.dat could add his own keys to your keypool
1666 2011-07-13 14:50:59 BaltarNZ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1667 2011-07-13 14:51:08 <phedny> so you claim not only confidentiality, but also integrity?
1668 2011-07-13 14:51:35 <TD> well
1669 2011-07-13 14:51:37 <TD> that's a stronger model
1670 2011-07-13 14:51:42 <TD> i suspect there are ways to screw with the wallet still
1671 2011-07-13 14:51:45 <TD> that could harm the user
1672 2011-07-13 14:51:58 <TD> the next step i guess is to allow multiple wallets and/or selective key encryption
1673 2011-07-13 14:52:18 <TD> the all-or-nothing model right now provides limited protection as you can't have any concept of checking vs savings accounts
1674 2011-07-13 14:52:29 <TD> UukGoblin: No. I don't think there's consensus that's the right way to go
1675 2011-07-13 14:52:51 <sipa> TD: there was a proposal which used public key encryption for keys, so you could add keys to it with the wallet locked
1676 2011-07-13 14:52:53 <BlueMatt> TD: really?
1677 2011-07-13 14:53:06 <sipa> but that wasn't implemented
1678 2011-07-13 14:53:08 <iddo> i don't get it, the private keys are stored in encrypted form, so how could anyone add keys to your wallet?
1679 2011-07-13 14:53:16 <BlueMatt> I thought that was satoshi's intent and I havent heard disagreement
1680 2011-07-13 14:53:18 <sipa> iddo: not
1681 2011-07-13 14:53:56 <erus`> by satoshis beard
1682 2011-07-13 14:54:01 <sipa> iddo: the question is whether being able to do so would be useful
1683 2011-07-13 14:54:35 <diki> i was wondering...is there any program out there that gets a block(hash) as an argument and computes with what difficulty it was solved at?
1684 2011-07-13 14:55:14 <iddo> i was also thinking of using public-key encryption for wallet, that way you can add new keys without problems (encrypted under the public key), but you must use your aes256 key to decrypt the private key that decrypts the private keys
1685 2011-07-13 14:55:16 <UukGoblin> TD, thanks
1686 2011-07-13 14:55:22 <redhatzero> diki, blockexplorer.com ;)
1687 2011-07-13 14:55:24 <diki> cause i do get a lot of hash < target so i wish to know what the hash's target was
1688 2011-07-13 14:55:30 <diki> blockexplorer is for solved blocks
1689 2011-07-13 14:55:36 <diki> i am talking about rejected hashes from bitcoin
1690 2011-07-13 14:55:52 <redhatzero> ah, i see
1691 2011-07-13 14:55:56 <UukGoblin> TD, were there any other proposals?
1692 2011-07-13 14:56:14 <BlueMatt> TD, UukGoblin I thought that was satoshi's intent and I havent heard disagreement
1693 2011-07-13 14:56:42 <redhatzero> i've made a php class that decodes a block, but there you only have target .. i haven't figured out yet to calculate the difficulty from target in php
1694 2011-07-13 14:56:44 <UukGoblin> satoshi indeed made a post about it, and I haven't heard anything against it either (so far)
1695 2011-07-13 14:57:02 <diki> that is what i want, get the target from the rejected hash
1696 2011-07-13 14:57:12 unclemantis has joined
1697 2011-07-13 14:57:14 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki difficulty
1698 2011-07-13 14:57:14 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty | Jul 1, 2011 ... Difficulty is a measure of how difficult it is to find a new block compared to ... The highest possible target (difficulty 1) is defined as ...
1699 2011-07-13 14:57:16 <nanotube> redhatzero: ^
1700 2011-07-13 14:57:26 <iddo> so what is implemented in 0.4 ? encrypted wallet with constant 100 keys that never change?
1701 2011-07-13 14:57:40 <sipa> iddo: they are topped up when the wallet is unlocked
1702 2011-07-13 14:57:50 DD- has quit ()
1703 2011-07-13 14:57:52 <diki> willing to share redhat?
1704 2011-07-13 14:58:06 <redhatzero> nanotube: yeah, i know how theoretically i could calculate the diff, but i haven't managed to implement it in php yet ^^
1705 2011-07-13 14:58:22 <nanotube> redhatzero: er well... once you know the target... the difficulty is just a ratio of two numbers.
1706 2011-07-13 14:58:33 <nanotube> redhatzero: (namely, max target, divided by current target)
1707 2011-07-13 14:58:34 <iddo> i thought that the wallet gets unlocked only when you send bitcoins to someone ?
1708 2011-07-13 14:58:40 <nanotube> i'd hope you can figure out how to divide in php :D
1709 2011-07-13 14:59:12 <sipa> iddo: yes, or through rpc
1710 2011-07-13 14:59:13 <lfm> iddo the wallet records stuff when you receive too
1711 2011-07-13 14:59:46 <redhatzero> nanotube: ^^ i hope so too ;) maybe i'll figure out what i was doing wrong, when i take a fresh look at it :)
1712 2011-07-13 14:59:51 <redhatzero> diki: mom
1713 2011-07-13 15:00:00 <nanotube> redhatzero: :)
1714 2011-07-13 15:00:01 <iddo> but all other stuff except the private part of ECDSA keys isn't encrypted with aes256, right?
1715 2011-07-13 15:00:09 <diki> redhatzero:??
1716 2011-07-13 15:00:21 <nanotube> diki: mom == one moment
1717 2011-07-13 15:00:23 <sipa> iddo: indeed, only private keys are encrypted
1718 2011-07-13 15:00:26 <diki> oh
1719 2011-07-13 15:00:29 <nanotube> diki: not a reference to your parent :)
1720 2011-07-13 15:00:37 <diki> that's what i thought it meant
1721 2011-07-13 15:00:42 <nanotube> hehe
1722 2011-07-13 15:00:45 <sipa> iddo: so you can receive transactions just fine
1723 2011-07-13 15:00:52 <lfm> ok
1724 2011-07-13 15:01:01 <redhatzero> hehe
1725 2011-07-13 15:01:53 <iddo> sipa: so i dont understand whats the answer to my first question, how do you add more than 100 keys if you have to encrypt with aes256 and you only have the password for aes256 when you send bitcoins ?
1726 2011-07-13 15:01:55 conjre has joined
1727 2011-07-13 15:02:07 <sipa> iddo: and my answer was 'not'
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1729 2011-07-13 15:02:14 <lfm> iddo you misunderstood the 100 keys
1730 2011-07-13 15:02:41 <sipa> iddo: but you only need those 100 keys when you are doing a transaction anyway, at which time, the password will be present
1731 2011-07-13 15:02:42 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1732 2011-07-13 15:02:55 <iddo> you said the 100 keys are topped up when the wallet is unlocked? what does that mean?
1733 2011-07-13 15:03:03 WakiMiko_ has joined
1734 2011-07-13 15:03:04 <sipa> unlock wallet == give password
1735 2011-07-13 15:03:25 <lfm> iddo if less than 100 unused keys then make some new ones
1736 2011-07-13 15:03:41 <TD> UukGoblin, bluematt: what satoshi said is that implementing it would be non trivial
1737 2011-07-13 15:03:51 <iddo> so when you send bitcoins, you wallet gets unlocked, and new keys beyond the first 100 keys can be added then?
1738 2011-07-13 15:03:52 <TD> i don't think he expressed an opinion on it more than that
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1740 2011-07-13 15:04:11 <TD> it's not clear to me that this idea is the best way to resolve the "what fee?" issue anyway
1741 2011-07-13 15:04:24 <sipa> iddo: yes
1742 2011-07-13 15:04:24 <UukGoblin> well the argument was that he proposed intentional double-spend as a solution to incrementing the fee after the tx has been sent problem
1743 2011-07-13 15:04:40 <sipa> but that won't work
1744 2011-07-13 15:04:42 <TD> the problem exists only because it's not clear what fee to set, in a world where miners charge fees
1745 2011-07-13 15:04:51 <TD> you can solve it also, by introducing that clarity
1746 2011-07-13 15:04:56 <TD> which is better than just repeatedly guessing and waiting
1747 2011-07-13 15:04:59 <BlueMatt> TD, UukGoblin: that is true, it would take quite a bit of work to do it right. And yes, it isnt a solution to the fee problem, but I think its an important part of the solution (well after an algo revamp, not before)
1748 2011-07-13 15:05:09 <redhatzero> diki: https://github.com/derfloh/PHP-Blockhash-decoder/blob/master/bitcoinBlock.php
1749 2011-07-13 15:05:17 skeledrew1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1750 2011-07-13 15:05:18 <BlueMatt> no, you do that, but its still a very useful feature
1751 2011-07-13 15:05:22 shLONG has joined
1752 2011-07-13 15:05:29 <BlueMatt> ie well i said send in 24 hours, but I actually need it now...
1753 2011-07-13 15:05:32 <UukGoblin> TD, well I think the design says that miners are free to set their fee policies, and it might be hard to stop them from doing so
1754 2011-07-13 15:05:43 <sipa> and you shouldn't
1755 2011-07-13 15:05:49 <iddo> sipa: but aren't you supposed to also add new keys when you receive bitcoins, because then you have fewer unused addresses ?
1756 2011-07-13 15:05:51 <TD> exactly
1757 2011-07-13 15:05:58 <TD> so a better solution is to support direct miner negotiations
1758 2011-07-13 15:06:04 <TD> eg, you should be able to export a transaction
1759 2011-07-13 15:06:19 <TD> submit it to some collection of miners you provide. you pick them based on what fee policies you find acceptable.
1760 2011-07-13 15:06:24 <TD> those policies can then be arbitrarily complex
1761 2011-07-13 15:06:29 <TD> eg, maybe you get a discount if you're a loyal customer or something
1762 2011-07-13 15:06:35 <lfm> iddo: you "use" a key when you display it to give out
1763 2011-07-13 15:06:38 <TD> there are all kinds of conditions you can't do with a pure broadcast model
1764 2011-07-13 15:06:39 <sipa> BlueMatt: hmm, what happens when you click 'new key' in the GUI, but no key is available in the pool?
1765 2011-07-13 15:06:40 <BlueMatt> that is a potential very-long-term solution but is a lot of work
1766 2011-07-13 15:06:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: new key in the gui always forces password entry
1767 2011-07-13 15:06:58 <lfm> iddo or with the "newaddress" command
1768 2011-07-13 15:06:58 <TD> well, from an implementation perspective i think it's easier than replacement. you just replace the broadcast step with an export step
1769 2011-07-13 15:07:11 <BlueMatt> not really
1770 2011-07-13 15:07:16 <sipa> TD: right but it requires a lot more infrastructure around it
1771 2011-07-13 15:07:19 <TD> yes
1772 2011-07-13 15:07:22 briareus has quit (Quit: leaving)
1773 2011-07-13 15:07:28 <BlueMatt> TD: think about the end-user experience there...its way too complicated
1774 2011-07-13 15:07:34 <nanotube> TD: tx import/export would also help with maintaining the airgap on an airgapped savings wallet
1775 2011-07-13 15:07:36 <TD> but it will take years (?) before miners charge complex fees
1776 2011-07-13 15:07:51 <TD> bluematt: the default could easily be to just broadcast
1777 2011-07-13 15:08:09 <BlueMatt> if we come up with a very good algorithm now that miners can accept, then there is no need
1778 2011-07-13 15:08:11 <TD> but actually i think in the longer run, fees will be paid by merchants
1779 2011-07-13 15:08:16 <TD> export can handle that case too
1780 2011-07-13 15:08:21 <BlueMatt> I agree there
1781 2011-07-13 15:08:22 <lfm> and allow a higher fee double spend to replace the lowwer fee one
1782 2011-07-13 15:08:22 <TD> you create a tx with no fee. export it. send to the merchant.
1783 2011-07-13 15:08:31 <TD> the merchant creates a tx that spends the first one and adds a fee. broadcasts them together.
1784 2011-07-13 15:08:40 <TD> the merchant is the one who cares about reversal risk after all
1785 2011-07-13 15:09:01 <TD> a generic export/submit model does require supporting/surrounding infrastructure, like the ability to submit a tx via HTTP or something
1786 2011-07-13 15:09:11 <TD> some other protocol to be defined. but it's much more flexible.
1787 2011-07-13 15:09:20 <sipa> indeed
1788 2011-07-13 15:09:28 <BlueMatt> no, I see it more merchants pay a payment processor (lets face it what merchant wants to do payment processing themselves these days) who mines and prioritizes the merchant's txes (for a fee)
1789 2011-07-13 15:09:50 <BlueMatt> then no existing infrastructure changes...
1790 2011-07-13 15:09:55 <BlueMatt> which just keeps things simple
1791 2011-07-13 15:10:49 Nicksasa_ has joined
1792 2011-07-13 15:10:55 <BlueMatt> that also solves the mining problem ;)
1793 2011-07-13 15:11:10 <vegard> hey TD, when do we get "1 btc to usd" in google search?
1794 2011-07-13 15:11:12 <lfm> or the merchant displays a qr code with the price, address and the fee wich is to be subtracted from the price. the customer app then sends it
1795 2011-07-13 15:11:13 <UukGoblin> well
1796 2011-07-13 15:11:26 <UukGoblin> the mining problem ;-]
1797 2011-07-13 15:11:30 brunner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1798 2011-07-13 15:11:55 <UukGoblin> imho, the best strategy for a miner who doesn't care about bandwidth/storage much, is to accept all transactions that have a fee and drop all transactions that don't
1799 2011-07-13 15:11:59 brunner has joined
1800 2011-07-13 15:12:07 <TD> i think rather than doing tx replacement, recursively considering un-included dependencies would work better
1801 2011-07-13 15:12:12 <TD> it would only let you raise fees not lower them
1802 2011-07-13 15:12:13 <TD> but that's ok
1803 2011-07-13 15:12:15 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: that is the problem I said it was solving
1804 2011-07-13 15:12:27 <TD> to pay more fee, you broadcast another tx that spends the first and includes a fee
1805 2011-07-13 15:12:34 <sipa> TD: indeed
1806 2011-07-13 15:13:03 <TD> this also simplifies things for end users
1807 2011-07-13 15:13:11 <TD> they are given a bitcoin address + price. they pay it. no fees, ever.
1808 2011-07-13 15:13:15 <BlueMatt> TD: lowering fees is probably not something we want anyway, but that is a only solves it in a specific case
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1811 2011-07-13 15:13:21 <TD> the merchant ensures it's included by doing a 2nd tx
1812 2011-07-13 15:13:35 <TD> so yeah, that approach means no additional protocol needed. seems better.
1813 2011-07-13 15:13:41 <TD> and i guess it'd be easy to implement
1814 2011-07-13 15:13:42 <BlueMatt> TD: if Im paying a merchant and I decide I want it to go through quick (for a merchant who doesnt do a fee thing) I want to be able to add more fee
1815 2011-07-13 15:13:49 <lfm> so txn with too small fee (or none) get priority boosted if another fee depnds on them?
1816 2011-07-13 15:13:56 <TD> why would you, as a purchaser, ever want to pay a fee?
1817 2011-07-13 15:14:10 <UukGoblin> then again, a single merchant might only mine a block after a week
1818 2011-07-13 15:14:13 <lfm> td same reason you pay a tax
1819 2011-07-13 15:14:16 <TD> the problem the fee solves is not your problem, and the reversal risk is something judged by the merchant (eg, you may be trusted, so then it doesn't matter if it takes a week to confirm)
1820 2011-07-13 15:14:18 <UukGoblin> i.e. if there's about 10k merchants in the world
1821 2011-07-13 15:14:23 <BlueMatt> TD: well if I post one tx and say I dont care if I get the payment through in 24 hours or more, then for some reason I decide I need it now
1822 2011-07-13 15:14:50 <sipa> BlueMatt: if you create the tx, you're the one losing money
1823 2011-07-13 15:15:00 <TD> send the additional fee amount to the recipient and ask them to create the 2nd fee paying tx
1824 2011-07-13 15:15:03 <BlueMatt> TD: how do you incentivize people to use fees aside from quicker confirms
1825 2011-07-13 15:15:04 <TD> i think that's a rare scenario anyway
1826 2011-07-13 15:15:15 <AndyBr> if i want to make a send/receive BTC system and need redundancy (windows), what can i do? 2 wallets? one shared datadir on network share?
1827 2011-07-13 15:15:17 Joric has joined
1828 2011-07-13 15:15:19 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes, people pay for expidited shipping all the time ;)
1829 2011-07-13 15:15:35 <TD> well the merchant can just add it to the price if they want it
1830 2011-07-13 15:15:42 <BlueMatt> TD: well I think its an even more rare scenario for a merchant to care when the payment comes in
1831 2011-07-13 15:15:43 <TD> my point is that the user shouldn't have to configure their bitcoin app to attach fees
1832 2011-07-13 15:15:44 <sipa> BlueMatt: your concern is getting the merchant to send you the goods
1833 2011-07-13 15:15:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: his concern is getting your money
1834 2011-07-13 15:15:57 <lfm> td if its just a psyc problem, the fee is included in the price, you as a sender dont worry about how the txn is formatted, just what it costs you.
1835 2011-07-13 15:16:06 <TD> bluematt: if the merchant doesn't care when the payment comes in, and neither does the buyer, no problems. it can just sit in the memory pool for a week until age gives it priority.
1836 2011-07-13 15:16:13 <TD> lfm: exactly
1837 2011-07-13 15:16:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: no, Im saying the merchant doesnt care when the money comes in, but you do as you care about when you get your stuff
1838 2011-07-13 15:16:36 marvin__ has joined
1839 2011-07-13 15:16:42 <TD> that doesn't make sense. if you don't get your stuff until the tx confirms, by definition the merchant does care
1840 2011-07-13 15:16:44 <marvin__> ;;bc,stats
1841 2011-07-13 15:16:47 <gribble> Current Blocks: 136089 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 998 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 15 hours, 24 minutes, and 10 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1631293.15723098
1842 2011-07-13 15:16:51 <lfm> td so a qr code that specifies the total price, the address and the (fee) for the txn format would work fine
1843 2011-07-13 15:16:59 Zagitta has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1844 2011-07-13 15:17:05 <TD> it's a quirk of the bitcoin design that the sender attaches the fee, but it's the recipient that actually cares about what the fee pays for
1845 2011-07-13 15:17:06 <sipa> BlueMatt: you seem to think those are related; of course, if the merchants only sends after getting the money, you are right; but all is required for the merchant is being sure he gets it - that's something very different from having the money available
1846 2011-07-13 15:17:15 <BlueMatt> TD: well Im saying yes, they care when it comes in but they dont care if they have to wait a week to send your stuff or an hour, they dont really care directly, they just have to pay attention to it
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1848 2011-07-13 15:17:23 <TD> lfm: why make it the users responsibility at all ?
1849 2011-07-13 15:17:57 <lfm> td the user does have an interest in getting the txn thru too.
1850 2011-07-13 15:17:57 <BlueMatt> sipa: If I were a merchant, Im not going to accept a tx (no matter what kind of fee/miner/etc setup there is) until it has several confirms
1851 2011-07-13 15:17:57 <TD> i've discussed this with justmoon in the past
1852 2011-07-13 15:18:03 <BlueMatt> and I dont think any merchant should
1853 2011-07-13 15:18:09 <TD> i think we could easily end up in a world where many/most txns don't have any fee attached, ever
1854 2011-07-13 15:18:12 <BlueMatt> thus the merchant waits for a tx to be confirmed before sending
1855 2011-07-13 15:18:12 <TD> and may not even be broadcast at all
1856 2011-07-13 15:18:15 <UukGoblin> the user is the one who sends a transaction, and it's often his business that the transactions gets into the blockchain
1857 2011-07-13 15:18:18 <UukGoblin> not always, but often
1858 2011-07-13 15:18:29 <BlueMatt> for once, I agree with UukGoblin
1859 2011-07-13 15:18:31 <sipa> BlueMatt: if you're using a payment processor you don't have any concept of 'confirmations' or even transactions at all
1860 2011-07-13 15:18:38 <TD> they just get handed around outside the network in a bundle until they cross a trust boundary and somebody pays a fee to ensure the coins don't get double spent
1861 2011-07-13 15:18:56 <BlueMatt> sipa: indirectly you do, the pp has to wait until it has confirms until it tells you to send the stuff, the tx is accepted
1862 2011-07-13 15:18:57 <lfm> td well thats the way satoshi envisioned it too, he hoped there would always be some support for free txn
1863 2011-07-13 15:19:06 marvin__ has quit (Client Quit)
1864 2011-07-13 15:19:08 <BlueMatt> TD: I really dont see that
1865 2011-07-13 15:19:10 <Diablo-D3> [09:46:12] <lfm> Diablo-D3: isnt that a standard heat pump?
1866 2011-07-13 15:19:10 <sipa> BlueMatt: why would the pp need to wait?
1867 2011-07-13 15:19:16 <TD> right now that approach is fine except for scalability ... it means a gigantic memory pool. one more reason to support tx export.
1868 2011-07-13 15:19:16 <Diablo-D3> lfm: the heatpipe setup? sure
1869 2011-07-13 15:19:18 <BlueMatt> sipa: why wouldnt they?
1870 2011-07-13 15:19:25 <Diablo-D3> lfm: but read the paper
1871 2011-07-13 15:19:28 <sipa> BlueMatt: it may be economically better to not wait
1872 2011-07-13 15:19:39 <TD> BlueMatt: if I send coins to you, why should either of us pay a fee? You can trust me >:-) as I'm not going to try and take the coins back
1873 2011-07-13 15:19:45 <BlueMatt> sipa: well ok, yes, maybe a merchant can pay big for insurance, but normally, no way
1874 2011-07-13 15:19:45 <sipa> BlueMatt: for small transactions a pp can just say "yeah, it's fine"
1875 2011-07-13 15:19:54 <TD> when there is a pre-existing trust relationship, it's redundant to add fees. we don't need the block chain at all.
1876 2011-07-13 15:20:03 <TD> the chain becomes useful when that trust doesn't exist.
1877 2011-07-13 15:20:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: small txes can get double spent as much as big ones
1878 2011-07-13 15:20:12 <BlueMatt> sipa: and a ton of small double spends == a big one
1879 2011-07-13 15:20:13 <sipa> BlueMatt: yes
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1881 2011-07-13 15:20:22 <sipa> a pp will do risk assessment
1882 2011-07-13 15:20:28 <sipa> and charge based on that
1883 2011-07-13 15:20:38 <TD> eg, if I send some coins to you by attaching a tx to an email (or whatever), and it has no fees, then you send some of the coins to a merchant, again it has no fees because hey - you already know you can trust yourself - then the merchant takes those transactions together
1884 2011-07-13 15:20:39 <BlueMatt> TD: exactly, but in a merchant/pp/user scenario you have no trust
1885 2011-07-13 15:20:39 pyro_ is now known as Guest92536
1886 2011-07-13 15:20:48 <TD> and broadcasts them, with his own tx that adds a fee
1887 2011-07-13 15:20:49 <BlueMatt> sipa: or they can wait for confirms
1888 2011-07-13 15:20:55 <sipa> BlueMatt: indeed
1889 2011-07-13 15:20:56 <TD> now the right person is paying fees and they get to pick how much they trust you
1890 2011-07-13 15:21:03 <lfm> td simply for efficiency it seems better if a txn can be completed in a single txn
1891 2011-07-13 15:21:08 <sipa> but that's up to the pp, not up to the payer nor the merchant
1892 2011-07-13 15:21:21 <TD> lfm: why?
1893 2011-07-13 15:21:27 skeledrew has joined
1894 2011-07-13 15:21:29 <lfm> efficiency?
1895 2011-07-13 15:21:37 <sipa> the pp tells you "send tx here", you do so, and after some time tells the merchant "ok, transaction cleared"
1896 2011-07-13 15:21:49 <TD> lfm: the coins are moving between people. they have to be broadcast at some point.
1897 2011-07-13 15:21:53 <BlueMatt> sipa: quite the opposite, neither the pp nor the merchant care how long it takes, its up to the customer to decide if they want faster access to their purchase
1898 2011-07-13 15:22:01 <TD> the only question is do they get passed around fee-less outside the network, or are all of them broadcast
1899 2011-07-13 15:22:04 <BlueMatt> sipa: and if I want my digital good faster?
1900 2011-07-13 15:22:19 <luke-jr> TD: if I send you Bitcoins, and you take your time putting them on the chain, my change is tied up until then
1901 2011-07-13 15:22:24 <BlueMatt> TD: I really dont see anyone doing that aside from large txes between big players
1902 2011-07-13 15:22:35 <sipa> BlueMatt: the merchant can pay the pp to have an option "guaranteed processing within time interval X"
1903 2011-07-13 15:22:39 <sipa> BlueMatt: and pay for that
1904 2011-07-13 15:22:50 <BlueMatt> sipa: exactly, but its much, much more elegant to let the user do that
1905 2011-07-13 15:22:53 <BlueMatt> much simpler
1906 2011-07-13 15:23:02 <TD> luke-jr: yeah. when doing that you might want to create a tx with an output of exactly the right size first i guess.
1907 2011-07-13 15:23:08 <sipa> it's also completely non user friendy
1908 2011-07-13 15:23:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: that is what tx fees are for, otherwise where would miners come from?
1909 2011-07-13 15:23:16 <luke-jr> TD: that takes just as long as broadcasting it in the first place
1910 2011-07-13 15:23:32 <lfm> td oh well if its like mybitcoin or mtgox users trading outside the main net then all bets are off. they can indeed be done quickly and inexpensivly
1911 2011-07-13 15:23:32 <TD> luke-jr: not if you already have an output of the right size.
1912 2011-07-13 15:23:38 <luke-jr> TD: which is rather unlikely
1913 2011-07-13 15:23:49 <BlueMatt> sipa: I disagree, I think its not really much different in user-friendly ness (if done right on the client side)
1914 2011-07-13 15:24:13 <TD> luke-jr: in practice i think we'll see clients in future automatically "break" big outputs into smaller ones.
1915 2011-07-13 15:24:26 <luke-jr> TD: and pay a fee?
1916 2011-07-13 15:24:33 <BlueMatt> TD: what advantage is there to do txes outside of the net, I see no reason why anyone would switch?
1917 2011-07-13 15:24:34 <TD> luke-jr: because otherwise you get information leaks (i can see that the person or company who just sent me coins is rich)
1918 2011-07-13 15:24:36 <luke-jr> "omg my wallet is slowly decreasing"
1919 2011-07-13 15:24:49 <TD> luke-jr: the breaking txns don't really matter, you aren't going to reverse your own transactions. again, they can be broadcast but fee-less
1920 2011-07-13 15:25:02 <luke-jr> TD: you're assuming miners accept fee-less
1921 2011-07-13 15:25:02 <TD> luke-jr: eventually some tx that depends on them will contain a fee and the miners will recursively include them all
1922 2011-07-13 15:25:06 <sipa> BlueMatt: if speed of confirmation is related to how fast you get your goods, you may care about it
1923 2011-07-13 15:25:24 <TD> no. i'm assuming they are willing to take a tx and put it to one side if there's no fee attached (not include it)
1924 2011-07-13 15:25:32 <UukGoblin> geez, I ended up as a troll now I think...
1925 2011-07-13 15:25:39 <sipa> BlueMatt: but there is 1) no guarantee bitcoin can make about the speed of transaction processing, and 2) there is no guarantee that the merchant will ship immediately after the transaction is getting confirmed
1926 2011-07-13 15:25:40 <TD> they'd do it because it's reasonable to assume one day a fee paying tx will appear that depends on it
1927 2011-07-13 15:25:43 <BlueMatt> sipa: how is that related to doing txes outside the net, that is a matter of seconds, not potentially a matter of hours with no fee
1928 2011-07-13 15:25:48 <luke-jr> btw, I think we should remove the stupid 100-block generation-spend limit
1929 2011-07-13 15:26:08 <luke-jr> or at least make an exception for transactions without outputs
1930 2011-07-13 15:26:12 <luke-jr> <.<
1931 2011-07-13 15:26:18 <TD> UukGoblin: no. it's a worthwhile topic that needs to be discussed.
1932 2011-07-13 15:26:28 <TD> nobody is quite sure how things will work in a fee-paying world
1933 2011-07-13 15:26:56 <OneTimePad> Is this someone just reserving all the first bits or transaction spam? http://blockexplorer.com/tx/701563082e1654561fc1b15964174f0d12e87e1cf66feb34c4e2f1f4f28454ee#i1582757
1934 2011-07-13 15:27:02 <BlueMatt> sipa: 1) that is why we have fees 2) with digital goods they will Im not thinking amazon here, Im thinking buying music or smth
1935 2011-07-13 15:27:16 <sipa> BlueMatt: the point is that as a customer i don't care when the transaction confirms, as long as i have a guarantee i get my goods after a predefined time
1936 2011-07-13 15:27:27 <BlueMatt> exactly
1937 2011-07-13 15:27:35 <sipa> BlueMatt: and that i want the merchant to be responsible for getting his transaction confirmed
1938 2011-07-13 15:27:49 <BlueMatt> but as a merchant/pp, I dont care how long it takes to give the goods, I just care when the tx confirms
1939 2011-07-13 15:28:02 <sipa> BlueMatt: no, you care about certainty that it gets confirmed
1940 2011-07-13 15:28:04 <sipa> not when
1941 2011-07-13 15:28:06 <BlueMatt> as a merchant/pp, I wait for confirm before sending of goods
1942 2011-07-13 15:28:09 blishchrot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1943 2011-07-13 15:28:18 <Joric> are you planning to add importprivkey to 0.3.25?
1944 2011-07-13 15:28:20 <TD> no
1945 2011-07-13 15:28:26 <BlueMatt> and to get certainty, it needs confirms
1946 2011-07-13 15:28:28 <TD> satoshi explicitly said that people selling IP wouldn't wait for confirmations
1947 2011-07-13 15:28:31 <BlueMatt> Joric: its 0.4, and yes
1948 2011-07-13 15:28:35 <TD> because the cost of a fraudulent reversal is "zero"
1949 2011-07-13 15:28:46 <TD> reversal risk is born by the merchant. that's fundamental.
1950 2011-07-13 15:28:53 <TD> users just want to send some coins and get their stuff
1951 2011-07-13 15:29:02 <TD> this is the same as in the CC world. merchants do a risk analysis on each customer.
1952 2011-07-13 15:29:10 <TD> the cost of that risk analysis is hidden in the price
1953 2011-07-13 15:29:23 <TD> it's not split out separately. maybe people would understand the cost of credit cards more, if it was
1954 2011-07-13 15:29:24 <lfm> ya, its not really zero
1955 2011-07-13 15:29:27 <TD> but it's generally not
1956 2011-07-13 15:29:27 <BlueMatt> Im not sure about that, I understand that merchants do and will continue to do some risk management
1957 2011-07-13 15:29:39 <BlueMatt> however, a part of that in bitcoin is some certainty that a block will have the tx
1958 2011-07-13 15:29:44 <BlueMatt> that is part of risk management imo
1959 2011-07-13 15:29:45 sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1960 2011-07-13 15:29:49 <TD> yeah. but why expose that to a user?
1961 2011-07-13 15:30:02 <TD> why explicitly tell the user via qrcode or whatever, "you must pay more because you are riskier"
1962 2011-07-13 15:30:05 <BlueMatt> well ok, they get the how long do you want to wait
1963 2011-07-13 15:30:13 <TD> the merchant may choose to do things differently anyway, eg via an insurance company
1964 2011-07-13 15:30:14 <BlueMatt> question
1965 2011-07-13 15:30:23 <lfm> td it is REALLY easy to do a zero confirm double spend
1966 2011-07-13 15:30:25 <BlueMatt> most merchants will (in the form of a pp)
1967 2011-07-13 15:30:28 <TD> that's assuming txns are broadcast at all. in future maybe broadcast will become disused.
1968 2011-07-13 15:30:36 <TD> and txns will be submitted to miners directly based on pre-arranged contract
1969 2011-07-13 15:30:42 <BlueMatt> but the pp then does the risk management including waiting for confirms (usually)
1970 2011-07-13 15:30:44 <TD> eg you'd buy 5mb of txns per month, up front
1971 2011-07-13 15:31:02 <TD> lfm: not that easy. you must mine a block. that costs you some money for electricity and hardware.
1972 2011-07-13 15:31:07 <UukGoblin> TD, thing is, the miner can't ensure how fast your txn will get confirmed
1973 2011-07-13 15:31:07 <BlueMatt> TD: I still dont see any scenario where broadcasts stop being used, what advantage is there for that?
1974 2011-07-13 15:31:19 <UukGoblin> TD, and therefore, they can easily cheat
1975 2011-07-13 15:31:24 <lfm> td no zero confirms need no blocks
1976 2011-07-13 15:31:24 <TD> scalability. control. broadcast doesn't let you pick which miner gets your tx.
1977 2011-07-13 15:31:40 <TD> ok, gotta go for meeting
1978 2011-07-13 15:31:44 <BlueMatt> when did people start careing which miner gets your tx?
1979 2011-07-13 15:31:45 <TD> meeting[s]
1980 2011-07-13 15:31:49 <BlueMatt> have fun
1981 2011-07-13 15:31:49 <TD> including meetings with lawyers >:-)
1982 2011-07-13 15:31:52 <lfm> td ok have fun
1983 2011-07-13 15:31:54 <BlueMatt> :(
1984 2011-07-13 15:32:02 <BlueMatt> about bitcoin (I hope)?
1985 2011-07-13 15:33:18 <sipa> ideally: merchants says "pay via payment processor X, and you have the goods within 3 days. Guaranteed", merchant pays pp to do all processing for him, pp tells you "do bitcoin tx negociated via URL X" and if succesful, tells the merchant the transaction is done
1986 2011-07-13 15:33:48 <lfm> sipa how bout for digital good like music
1987 2011-07-13 15:34:05 <UukGoblin> sipa, well the user then goes to another store, with another PP, and quietly double-spends
1988 2011-07-13 15:34:11 traviscj_ has joined
1989 2011-07-13 15:34:12 <lfm> people maybe dont wanna wait for confirms
1990 2011-07-13 15:34:16 <sipa> UukGoblin: that's a risk, yes
1991 2011-07-13 15:34:24 <sipa> UukGoblin: and that risk will be estimated
1992 2011-07-13 15:34:33 <sipa> and that is what the merchant pays for
1993 2011-07-13 15:34:33 <BlueMatt> sipa: negotiated via URL X????
1994 2011-07-13 15:34:46 <BlueMatt> this is getting way too complicated for no reason
1995 2011-07-13 15:34:57 <UukGoblin> sipa, I have to say I don't like that solution. It involves politics rather than technology
1996 2011-07-13 15:35:15 <BlueMatt> there is no way that would be done, its a simple here is the payment needed, pay to address X
1997 2011-07-13 15:35:27 <BlueMatt> (shown by the pp to the user)
1998 2011-07-13 15:35:43 Guest92536 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1999 2011-07-13 15:35:46 <sipa> BlueMatt: just generalized - it can be just an address to pay to, or an url to fetch an address from, or some out-of-band protocol for sending the tx itself
2000 2011-07-13 15:36:05 <BlueMatt> I still see no advantage for out-of-band tx sendings...
2001 2011-07-13 15:36:27 <sipa> so fees can be added in a dependent tx, for example
2002 2011-07-13 15:36:37 <BlueMatt> a pp will (well maybe should) mine themselves so they handle that stuff, or they can just addnode to a big miner and send them the hashes of all the txes
2003 2011-07-13 15:36:40 <lfm> for people who want delivery RIGHT NOW, like itunes maybe
2004 2011-07-13 15:36:48 <BlueMatt> that doesnt mean you send txes out-of-band
2005 2011-07-13 15:36:52 <BlueMatt> there is no reason for that...
2006 2011-07-13 15:37:03 <sipa> or for the case where tx broadcasting is simply not viable anymore, and txs are always sent to miners directly by pp's
2007 2011-07-13 15:37:10 sytse has quit (Read error: No route to host)
2008 2011-07-13 15:37:11 <BlueMatt> in fact, it adds security to not do that as double-spend detection might be able to be done before it gets into a miner
2009 2011-07-13 15:37:23 <BlueMatt> well no end-users will be on the p2p net
2010 2011-07-13 15:37:26 <lfm> sipa that seems weird to me, not bircoin any more
2011 2011-07-13 15:37:30 <BlueMatt> that is just miners/pps/etc
2012 2011-07-13 15:37:36 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2013 2011-07-13 15:37:39 <sipa> i'm not saying all these changes will necessarily happen
2014 2011-07-13 15:38:01 <sipa> i'm just using general terminology to show that the systems will keep working
2015 2011-07-13 15:38:06 traviscj_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2016 2011-07-13 15:38:13 <BlueMatt> Im saying there is no scenario I can think of where it is advantageous for anyone to do that and hence *wont* happen
2017 2011-07-13 15:38:15 <BlueMatt> not they might not
2018 2011-07-13 15:38:32 <BlueMatt> unless someone doesnt understand bitcoin and implements it...which I suppose is probably likely
2019 2011-07-13 15:38:44 Avemo_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2020 2011-07-13 15:38:46 <lfm> inevitable
2021 2011-07-13 15:39:05 <sipa> BlueMatt: what precisely in the above scenario doesn't have advantages?
2022 2011-07-13 15:39:08 <BlueMatt> anyway, Id hope the pps would be smart enough
2023 2011-07-13 15:39:17 <BlueMatt> sipa: the out-of-band tx stuff
2024 2011-07-13 15:39:23 <BlueMatt> just referring to that
2025 2011-07-13 15:39:29 <sipa> that is just for the case where tx broadcast doesn't work anymore
2026 2011-07-13 15:39:40 <BlueMatt> I dont see why that wont be
2027 2011-07-13 15:39:47 <BlueMatt> at that point, its not a p2p net...
2028 2011-07-13 15:39:53 <sipa> sure it is
2029 2011-07-13 15:40:06 <BlueMatt> well if everything is out-of-band...
2030 2011-07-13 15:40:09 <sipa> not at all
2031 2011-07-13 15:40:18 <sipa> blocks remain p2p
2032 2011-07-13 15:40:24 <BlueMatt> mmm
2033 2011-07-13 15:40:24 <sipa> and you can't change that
2034 2011-07-13 15:40:27 <lfm> seems to me like the "bank" is the natural solution to immediat txn and maybe to free txn too
2035 2011-07-13 15:40:33 ar4s has quit (Quit: ar4s)
2036 2011-07-13 15:40:56 <nanotube> lfm: indeed
2037 2011-07-13 15:40:58 <BlueMatt> well by the time there are too many txes, its only miners and pps on a big backbone net
2038 2011-07-13 15:41:05 <BlueMatt> and they can easily handle a ton of txes
2039 2011-07-13 15:41:14 <sipa> exactly
2040 2011-07-13 15:41:24 <sipa> but you can still run your own lightweight bitcoin client
2041 2011-07-13 15:41:27 <BlueMatt> so I dont see when tx broadcast wouldnt work...
2042 2011-07-13 15:41:33 <sipa> maybe behind some filtering node
2043 2011-07-13 15:41:42 redhatzero has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2044 2011-07-13 15:41:43 <BlueMatt> yea no one would join the p2p net
2045 2011-07-13 15:41:49 <sipa> and remain in control of your funds
2046 2011-07-13 15:41:56 <BlueMatt> it would all be connected through a proxy which is on the p2p net
2047 2011-07-13 15:42:00 <BlueMatt> like webcoin
2048 2011-07-13 15:42:07 <sipa> for example
2049 2011-07-13 15:42:14 <BlueMatt> yea
2050 2011-07-13 15:42:22 <BlueMatt> that is why I just dont see this ever happening
2051 2011-07-13 15:42:23 <lfm> have another class of node that only receives completed blocks, not the separate txn?
2052 2011-07-13 15:42:29 <BlueMatt> webcoin could just as easily just drop tx broadcasts
2053 2011-07-13 15:42:47 <BlueMatt> but miners will always, it just makes much more sense
2054 2011-07-13 15:42:52 <BlueMatt> it gives a slight bit of security...
2055 2011-07-13 15:42:56 <sipa> will always what?
2056 2011-07-13 15:42:57 <BlueMatt> s/of/more/
2057 2011-07-13 15:43:03 <BlueMatt> broadcast txes
2058 2011-07-13 15:43:12 <sipa> why would they?
2059 2011-07-13 15:43:14 <BlueMatt> /accept tx broadcasts
2060 2011-07-13 15:43:21 <BlueMatt> why wouldnt they is my question
2061 2011-07-13 15:43:30 <lfm> sipa for the next txn with a fee that depends on it?
2062 2011-07-13 15:43:32 <BlueMatt> why would they would be if they had to change, but they dont, so why wouldnt they
2063 2011-07-13 15:43:56 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2064 2011-07-13 15:44:03 <sipa> maybe because no txs are broadcast anymore :)
2065 2011-07-13 15:44:15 <BlueMatt> but why would that ever change?
2066 2011-07-13 15:44:22 <BlueMatt> there is no advantage, and slight advantages against it
2067 2011-07-13 15:44:29 <sipa> because it's not viable to broadcast all txs anymore
2068 2011-07-13 15:44:34 <sipa> i'm not saying that it will be
2069 2011-07-13 15:44:40 <BlueMatt> among high-power backend servers? no
2070 2011-07-13 15:44:41 <sipa> there are many different futures here
2071 2011-07-13 15:44:55 <lfm> keeping everything flowing is to everyones interest long term
2072 2011-07-13 15:45:05 <sipa> but i think at least one viable future is that miners work directly with pp's, and get their transactions directly
2073 2011-07-13 15:45:30 <lfm> sipa so you would have to wait for YOUR pp to find a block?
2074 2011-07-13 15:45:47 <BlueMatt> I can definitely see pps telling miners which txes are theirs and need prioritized, but not broadcasting seems like it wont work
2075 2011-07-13 15:45:48 <sipa> pp's would obviously have deals with many miners
2076 2011-07-13 15:45:54 <BlueMatt> or would be the miners ;)
2077 2011-07-13 15:45:54 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: how goes it?
2078 2011-07-13 15:46:03 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: good, why do you ask?
2079 2011-07-13 15:46:06 <unclemantis> hey check this out http://www.mastercard.us/google-wallet.html
2080 2011-07-13 15:46:13 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: just checking in
2081 2011-07-13 15:46:18 <BlueMatt> how you doing?
2082 2011-07-13 15:46:30 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: are we building yet?
2083 2011-07-13 15:46:34 <BlueMatt> yep
2084 2011-07-13 15:46:36 <lfm> sipa better to send your txn to ALL pp and let the first one to include it win the fee
2085 2011-07-13 15:46:37 <jgarzik> good
2086 2011-07-13 15:46:45 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: sorry, had missed a space in the commit last night...
2087 2011-07-13 15:46:51 <BlueMatt> init.hcrypter.h wasnt a file...
2088 2011-07-13 15:46:55 <jgarzik> sipa: saw your bug report. fixed? also, wallet import/export?
2089 2011-07-13 15:47:26 <unclemantis> looks like google is taking a stab at the POS market
2090 2011-07-13 15:47:27 <sipa> jgarzik: not tested, but pull 405 should fix it
2091 2011-07-13 15:47:39 <sipa> jgarzik: i just wonder how serious it is
2092 2011-07-13 15:48:12 <sipa> jgarzik: for wallet import/export, i reopened #220, but it is rebased now against #403 already
2093 2011-07-13 15:48:50 sshc_ has joined
2094 2011-07-13 15:48:53 <jgarzik> any reports, positive or negative, trickling in RE encryption?
2095 2011-07-13 15:48:55 shLONG has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2096 2011-07-13 15:49:00 koleg has joined
2097 2011-07-13 15:49:22 <BlueMatt> none that Ive seen
2098 2011-07-13 15:49:25 <sipa> not that i know of, but i'm quite sure it has a lot more testing by people like gmaxwell before merging than now in git master
2099 2011-07-13 15:49:27 <jgarzik> I ran -tip on testnet last night w/ bitcoind
2100 2011-07-13 15:49:36 <jgarzik> but didn't set any environment variables or anything
2101 2011-07-13 15:50:10 sshc has joined
2102 2011-07-13 15:50:55 OneTimePad has left ()
2103 2011-07-13 15:54:33 Titeuf_87 has joined
2104 2011-07-13 15:55:39 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, sipa: <sipa> why not return enum DBError? <<--- hey, it's BlueMatt's code, I was only fixing it to work :) avoiding enum doesn't not bother me, as I do that all the time in C. What actually bothered me was using DB_xxx namespace, which potentially conflicts with bdb. I would have preferred that CDB_xxx or similar be used.
2105 2011-07-13 15:55:46 OneTimePad has joined
2106 2011-07-13 15:56:12 <BlueMatt> hey, its not my repo, change it to whatever you want
2107 2011-07-13 15:56:17 <sipa> haha
2108 2011-07-13 15:56:30 <sipa> hey, it's not my code, change it to whatever you think is best!
2109 2011-07-13 15:57:02 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * rb8cbbc2 / src/wallet.cpp : Merge pull request #405 from sipa/syncdefault ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/b8cbbc2c28679295a5cfb7ac553ee81dd950fbf5
2110 2011-07-13 15:57:45 <sipa> from a code separation pov it's not nice to expose CWalletDB's errors through CWallet
2111 2011-07-13 15:58:22 <BlueMatt> hey, I was told to return something nice, so thats what I did (instead of false), not sure what a better way really would be...
2112 2011-07-13 15:58:33 <sipa> but i guess that's something we need to live with
2113 2011-07-13 15:58:52 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r9cd22ab / (src/rpc.cpp src/wallet.cpp): Merge pull request #406 from muggenhor/warning-fixes ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/9cd22ab86296ae7039132423c7f9847bdc19a644
2114 2011-07-13 15:59:00 <lfm> what do you do when there is a file error? halt and catch fire?
2115 2011-07-13 15:59:21 brunner has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2116 2011-07-13 15:59:31 <BlueMatt> well I voted for rm -rf /, but people seemed to not like that idea, so halt and error message is what is done
2117 2011-07-13 15:59:42 <UukGoblin> lfm, call aunt helen
2118 2011-07-13 15:59:48 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2119 2011-07-13 15:59:57 TD_ has joined
2120 2011-07-13 16:00:00 <sipa> BlueMatt: why assume a unix environnement? just remove all wallet keys :)
2121 2011-07-13 16:00:03 brunner has joined
2122 2011-07-13 16:00:21 <BlueMatt> well wiping drive via dod-verified 7-layer wipe might work better...
2123 2011-07-13 16:00:41 <UukGoblin> I thought it was 21 layer
2124 2011-07-13 16:00:55 <BlueMatt> meh, 1 works just as well
2125 2011-07-13 16:01:13 <lfm> just spawn dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda is more efficient, dod wipes are silly
2126 2011-07-13 16:01:34 <UukGoblin> lfm, depends on how many files you have
2127 2011-07-13 16:01:52 <UukGoblin> or how big the drive is
2128 2011-07-13 16:01:53 ewal has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2129 2011-07-13 16:02:03 <BlueMatt> whats that distro that corrects all the incorrect commands you type in the shell to rm -rf /
2130 2011-07-13 16:02:21 denisx has joined
2131 2011-07-13 16:02:21 <Joric> it should be rm -rf --no-preserve-root / (since coreutils 6.4)
2132 2011-07-13 16:02:23 <jgarzik> BlueMatt: seen issue #407?
2133 2011-07-13 16:02:29 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2134 2011-07-13 16:02:32 <lfm> UukGoblin: well ys wipe your modt important files firt you're saying? I can live with that.
2135 2011-07-13 16:02:47 tower has joined
2136 2011-07-13 16:03:06 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: actually handling the cancel different than a blank string requires a *ton* more effort and odd variable-passing
2137 2011-07-13 16:03:11 nhodges has joined
2138 2011-07-13 16:03:22 <BlueMatt> though maybe the text could be better...
2139 2011-07-13 16:04:34 Backburn has joined
2140 2011-07-13 16:04:53 <b4epoche> wow⦠reading the logs and it's amazing how smart the people here think they are ;-)
2141 2011-07-13 16:05:22 <BlueMatt> no, I know Im stupid, I just like to think otherwise...
2142 2011-07-13 16:05:56 * b4epoche wasn't talking about you ;-) cough, cough Diablo-D3
2143 2011-07-13 16:06:02 traviscj has joined
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2145 2011-07-13 16:07:12 <lfm> I made a mistake once. I thought I had made a misatake but I hadn't. My actual mistake was thinking I had.
2146 2011-07-13 16:07:15 <Joric> pywallet damaged 0.3.25 wallet somehow i've added max_version 32400
2147 2011-07-13 16:07:27 <Joric> added unencrypted key now it hangs
2148 2011-07-13 16:07:41 <BlueMatt> lfm: lol
2149 2011-07-13 16:07:57 * b4epoche hates when it's the verification that is messed up, not the result
2150 2011-07-13 16:08:10 <BlueMatt> Joric: why is pywallet?
2151 2011-07-13 16:08:15 <BlueMatt> s/why/what/
2152 2011-07-13 16:08:30 <Joric> https://github.com/joric/pywallet
2153 2011-07-13 16:08:45 <BlueMatt> why dont you just use bitcointools?
2154 2011-07-13 16:08:56 <BlueMatt> well hack up bitcointools
2155 2011-07-13 16:09:18 <sipa> because writing code is easier than reading code :p
2156 2011-07-13 16:09:23 <BlueMatt> that already has the read/write stuff in it...
2157 2011-07-13 16:09:34 <Joric> it's based on bitcointools but they lack some cryptography for importing shortened privkeys
2158 2011-07-13 16:10:02 <BlueMatt> so add it to bitcointools, why redo a ton of work?
2159 2011-07-13 16:10:09 <BlueMatt> sipa: so true, so true...
2160 2011-07-13 16:12:16 <sipa> jgarzik: for key import/export, i want to add a removeprivkey method as well
2161 2011-07-13 16:12:35 <sipa> jgarzik: for wallet import/export... i guess that mostly needs testing
2162 2011-07-13 16:13:21 pyro_ has joined
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2164 2011-07-13 16:14:37 <jgarzik> sipa: best way to test is to push it ;)
2165 2011-07-13 16:14:56 <sipa> well, depends on how stable you want git head to be
2166 2011-07-13 16:15:19 <sipa> but yes indeed
2167 2011-07-13 16:15:43 <sipa> jgarzik: anyway, have you looked at #403 ?
2168 2011-07-13 16:16:51 <BlueMatt> oh, I added the bitcoin_test unit tester to jenkins, but it doesnt build needs part of #363...
2169 2011-07-13 16:17:01 <BlueMatt> vegard: pin
2170 2011-07-13 16:17:02 <BlueMatt> g
2171 2011-07-13 16:18:12 sytse has joined
2172 2011-07-13 16:18:53 danbri has joined
2173 2011-07-13 16:19:04 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #5: STILL FAILING in 18 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin-Test/5/
2174 2011-07-13 16:19:04 <BlueMattBot> * pieter.wuille: Bugfix: add autogenerated addresses to address book
2175 2011-07-13 16:19:05 <BlueMattBot> * me: fix warning: variable ânMinDepthâ set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable]
2176 2011-07-13 16:19:05 <BlueMattBot> * me: fix warning: control reaches end of non-void function [-Wreturn-type]
2177 2011-07-13 16:19:14 Marf has quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
2178 2011-07-13 16:19:15 <BlueMatt> as you can see...
2179 2011-07-13 16:22:26 <devrandom> hi BlueMatt
2180 2011-07-13 16:22:35 <BlueMatt> devrandom: hi
2181 2011-07-13 16:23:00 <Diablo-D3> [12:02:56] * b4epoche wasn't talking about you ;-) cough, cough Diablo-D3
2182 2011-07-13 16:23:03 <Diablo-D3> troll much?
2183 2011-07-13 16:23:41 <BlueMatt> wow, when you start changing stuff and tracing, you realize we have quite a few variables that we just dont use at all...
2184 2011-07-13 16:25:59 <sipa> BlueMatt: btw, i'm more and more convinced that more compiler warning would be a good thing, but that would probably mean fixing a lot of things that are not actually a problem
2185 2011-07-13 16:26:16 <BlueMatt> yep
2186 2011-07-13 16:26:21 <jgarzik> <sipa> well, depends on how stable you want git head to be <<-- does your patch break anything existing features? :) I thought it just added new stuff.
2187 2011-07-13 16:26:26 <jgarzik> anyway, time to test it :)
2188 2011-07-13 16:26:33 * jgarzik -> lunch
2189 2011-07-13 16:26:33 karnac has joined
2190 2011-07-13 16:26:37 <jgarzik> haven't looked at #403 yet
2191 2011-07-13 16:26:39 <BlueMatt> that old -Wall - stuff pull was actually reasonable...
2192 2011-07-13 16:27:05 <lfm> I love -Wall
2193 2011-07-13 16:27:05 <BlueMatt> oh well, how close are we to being able to use -Wall after all these warning fixes
2194 2011-07-13 16:27:15 <sipa> BlueMatt: it was reasonable, but with that many exceptions not very useful
2195 2011-07-13 16:27:21 <BlueMatt> yep
2196 2011-07-13 16:27:24 <devrandom> BlueMatt: now that you all are working on 0.4, I was wondering how I can help with gitian adoption...
2197 2011-07-13 16:27:48 TD has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2198 2011-07-13 16:27:48 TD_ is now known as TD
2199 2011-07-13 16:27:52 <BlueMatt> but now that we have had like 10 rounds of Wall fixes, how many of those can be removed?
2200 2011-07-13 16:27:56 p0s has joined
2201 2011-07-13 16:28:13 b4epoche_ has joined
2202 2011-07-13 16:28:53 E-sense has joined
2203 2011-07-13 16:28:58 <b4epoche> [09:23:05] Diablo-D3: dear lord people are stupid <--- makes you look stupid
2204 2011-07-13 16:29:57 <Diablo-D3> b4epoche: what, because I dont subscribe to the YO DAWG, I HERD YOU LIKE COOLING, SO I PUT A HEATSINK IN YOUR FAN SO YOU CAN COOL WHILE YOU COOL school of thought?
2205 2011-07-13 16:30:05 <BlueMatt> devrandom: hmm...well lets see, I need to go look at gui wrappers around downloader...Ive been getting distracted... also, I still have no idea if the gitian win32 builds are nearly deterministic, I havent really had time to check those thoroughly...that is probably the first thing that needs to happen
2206 2011-07-13 16:30:24 AStove has joined
2207 2011-07-13 16:30:54 <b4epoche> you obviously did not read the article the guy wrote⦠it's a really good idea.
2208 2011-07-13 16:31:06 <b4epoche> but it's probably over your head anyway...
2209 2011-07-13 16:31:17 slux has joined
2210 2011-07-13 16:31:25 <devrandom> BlueMatt: we could focus on the linux version first and do a dress-rehearsal of an update (e.g. from rc-1 to rc-2)
2211 2011-07-13 16:32:32 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2212 2011-07-13 16:32:51 <Diablo-D3> b4epoche: did you miss the part where I fixed the entire design flaw?
2213 2011-07-13 16:33:03 <BlueMatt> devrandom: could, though I think in the long-term gitian will be a windows thing...linux should move towards distro-specific packaging and I dont think gitian is something that fits in at a package-specific level there (though package managers should be capable of using something like gitian sometime...)
2214 2011-07-13 16:33:05 <b4epoche> there's no design flaw
2215 2011-07-13 16:33:16 <BlueMatt> devrandom: mac...well thats another thing entirely
2216 2011-07-13 16:33:24 <b4epoche> yea, I'm sure Sandia will be making you an offer shortly
2217 2011-07-13 16:34:38 bender32 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2221 2011-07-13 16:35:57 <devrandom> BlueMatt: I assume adoption into distros is months away
2222 2011-07-13 16:36:51 <devrandom> in the mean time it would be great if there was a secure way for people to keep up to date
2223 2011-07-13 16:37:01 <BlueMatt> devrandom: probably more...I have no problem with doing a gitian thing for linux, its probably a good idea, was just saying dont spend too much effort on it...
2224 2011-07-13 16:37:25 <BlueMatt> hadnt you written a bitcoin gitian-downloader config a while back?
2225 2011-07-13 16:37:27 <BlueMatt> where is that?
2226 2011-07-13 16:37:51 <devrandom> it's in the gitian-tools repo
2227 2011-07-13 16:38:12 <devrandom> maybe it makes sense to have a pull request of that into bitcoin?
2228 2011-07-13 16:38:15 again has joined
2229 2011-07-13 16:38:34 <BlueMatt> probably...
2230 2011-07-13 16:39:16 <lfm> Zero defects: The result of shutting down a production line.
2231 2011-07-13 16:39:53 <devrandom> BlueMatt: it's in gitian-builder in share/gitian-updater
2232 2011-07-13 16:40:32 <devrandom> it can be customized with the bitcoin config (there's a flag for that) and generates bitcoin-config
2233 2011-07-13 16:41:16 <devrandom> --customize
2234 2011-07-13 16:41:35 bender32 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2235 2011-07-13 16:41:38 <BlueMatt> devrandom: no, I thought the actual config file was written somewhere, not the program to handle it?
2236 2011-07-13 16:41:56 <devrandom> you can go either way
2237 2011-07-13 16:42:18 bender32 has joined
2238 2011-07-13 16:42:23 <devrandom> if you run --customize you get a single file, so people can just get started by downloading that
2239 2011-07-13 16:42:30 <BlueMatt> no, I meant that I thought you had written a config file for bitcoin specifically?
2240 2011-07-13 16:42:38 <devrandom> yeah
2241 2011-07-13 16:42:41 <devrandom> sec
2242 2011-07-13 16:45:31 <Joric> what the hell is addrIncoming what did you put in it? it broke my reader
2243 2011-07-13 16:45:44 <BlueMatt> read the commit
2244 2011-07-13 16:47:10 <CIA-103> bitcoin-release: Dev Random master * r3f3e746 / bitcoin-download-config : Add updater download config - http://bit.ly/oDnhuR https://github.com/devrandom/bitcoin-release/commit/3f3e746d0c0e8e34750d52a8106828407acaafac
2245 2011-07-13 16:47:11 <CIA-103> bitcoin-release: Dev Random master * r9eb845e / (2 files): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:devrandom/bitcoin-release - http://bit.ly/nYnx8o https://github.com/devrandom/bitcoin-release/commit/9eb845e54eab5bd3d40b396033714f1b63de6bbd
2246 2011-07-13 16:47:43 <BlueMatt> ah...
2247 2011-07-13 16:48:00 jav__ has joined
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2250 2011-07-13 16:48:44 elnato has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2251 2011-07-13 16:48:44 <devrandom> BlueMatt: here it is
2252 2011-07-13 16:49:27 <BlueMatt> devrandom: why does sipa get a keyid and no one else?
2253 2011-07-13 16:49:38 skeledrew has joined
2254 2011-07-13 16:50:12 <devrandom> BlueMatt: to disambiguate his many subkeys
2255 2011-07-13 16:50:46 <BlueMatt> ah, ok
2256 2011-07-13 16:51:40 ForceMajeure has joined
2257 2011-07-13 16:51:48 mosimo has joined
2258 2011-07-13 16:56:04 * BlueMatt -> dinner, devrandom Ill take a rebaseing break and work on gitian stuff for a day or two, sorry it had totally slipped my mind recently...
2259 2011-07-13 16:57:03 <jav__> is there a way with stock bitcoind to list the input addresses used in a transaction?
2260 2011-07-13 16:59:41 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2263 2011-07-13 17:01:57 medstflow has joined
2264 2011-07-13 17:01:58 <devrandom> BlueMatt: sounds good, let me know how I can help
2265 2011-07-13 17:02:08 wirehead` is now known as wirehead
2266 2011-07-13 17:02:41 koolfy has joined
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2268 2011-07-13 17:04:24 <medstflow> question for dev: is there a way to "lockterminal" the official client so a password needs to be entered so the client can run unsupervised while others walk through the room with your computer?
2269 2011-07-13 17:05:01 <b4epoche> you want to just lock the app?
2270 2011-07-13 17:05:11 <medstflow> yes
2271 2011-07-13 17:05:15 <medstflow> so others can still surf
2272 2011-07-13 17:05:18 <b4epoche> that could be done
2273 2011-07-13 17:05:22 glassresistor has joined
2274 2011-07-13 17:05:24 <b4epoche> and is probably a good idea
2275 2011-07-13 17:05:40 <medstflow> than it should be done :D
2276 2011-07-13 17:05:46 <medstflow> who is responsible?
2277 2011-07-13 17:05:57 <b4epoche> I'm not sure how the wallet encryption/locking is to be implemented from the UI
2278 2011-07-13 17:06:07 <BlueMatt> medstflow: see: wallet encryption and latest nightly and see if that is what you mean
2279 2011-07-13 17:06:15 <BlueMatt> well, maybe tomorrow's nightly
2280 2011-07-13 17:06:45 <medstflow> sorry - whats a latest nightly? new distribution?
2281 2011-07-13 17:06:47 <b4epoche> BlueMatt: for CocoaBitcoin, how often should I be rebasing the core code?
2282 2011-07-13 17:07:44 <BlueMatt> b4epoche: up to you...
2283 2011-07-13 17:07:56 <BlueMatt> medstflow: nightly builds of bitcoin's unstable tree see bitcoin.bluematt.me
2284 2011-07-13 17:08:12 E-sense has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2285 2011-07-13 17:08:12 <medstflow> thank you
2286 2011-07-13 17:08:14 <BlueMatt> medstflow: warning: dont use those in production
2287 2011-07-13 17:08:37 <BlueMatt> b4epoche: Id say keep it rebased all the time and release in sync?
2288 2011-07-13 17:08:44 <b4epoche> BlueMatt: I was thinking that I would just rebase when a new release came out⦠meaning CocoaBitcoin would be slightly behind
2289 2011-07-13 17:08:52 <medstflow> i ll check it out in 3 days and report back
2290 2011-07-13 17:08:59 <BlueMatt> keep it rebased and then release when bitcoin releases
2291 2011-07-13 17:09:04 <b4epoche> yea, that would be optimal...
2292 2011-07-13 17:09:04 <medstflow> goodby i am off
2293 2011-07-13 17:09:30 medstflow has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2294 2011-07-13 17:10:05 <b4epoche> maybe when a release is close⦠like when is the next release planned?
2295 2011-07-13 17:10:13 da2ce7 has joined
2296 2011-07-13 17:10:16 <Optimo_> 0.4 ..
2297 2011-07-13 17:10:29 <b4epoche> I guess I should rebase on one of these rc versions
2298 2011-07-13 17:10:30 bender32 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2299 2011-07-13 17:10:45 Optimo_ is now known as Optimo
2300 2011-07-13 17:13:14 bender32 has joined
2301 2011-07-13 17:13:57 <Joric> this addrIncoming thing is twisted
2302 2011-07-13 17:14:20 <Joric> sure there's no another solution? :)
2303 2011-07-13 17:15:15 <gmaxwell> Twisted isn't very descriptive.
2304 2011-07-13 17:15:45 <jav__> any good patch floating around that lets 'gettransaction' return some more information? like the input addresses used for the transaction?
2305 2011-07-13 17:15:52 <gmaxwell> The obvious improvements there are to only rumor nodes which you really believe to be recently alive and listening...
2306 2011-07-13 17:16:04 <TD> back
2307 2011-07-13 17:18:06 <TD> devrandom: sup
2308 2011-07-13 17:18:55 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: .24 stats?
2309 2011-07-13 17:19:08 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: and is the seed probing working better now?
2310 2011-07-13 17:19:22 <b4epoche> Optimo: http://db.tt/oGZeFpv
2311 2011-07-13 17:20:45 <TD> BlueMatt: could you let me/bitcoin-development know when you switch your DNS server to only list .24 clients? there are some complaints from (indirect) bitcoinj users that they can't get the chain
2312 2011-07-13 17:21:22 brooss_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2313 2011-07-13 17:21:22 <TD> i think the mobile apps are already using your node by default (don't know off hand as they aren't my programs)
2314 2011-07-13 17:21:32 <TD> but when they do, that should resolve the issue i think
2315 2011-07-13 17:21:44 <b4epoche> and anyone else that has a MtGox account and would like to test Bitcoin Trader.app (see above link)
2316 2011-07-13 17:22:33 <gmaxwell> TD: dunno about that, it won't resolve the issue if there are only a few hundred .24 nodes and their connection slots are always full.
2317 2011-07-13 17:23:55 da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2318 2011-07-13 17:24:26 <TD> there aren't that many mobile users :)
2319 2011-07-13 17:24:29 <TD> but yeah
2320 2011-07-13 17:24:38 <TD> we need ~everyone to upgrade
2321 2011-07-13 17:24:48 <TD> i think a network alert is justified, but nobody replied to that suggestion
2322 2011-07-13 17:24:48 <BlueMatt> TD: already done a while ago
2323 2011-07-13 17:24:59 <BlueMatt> TD: sorry, should have posted I guess
2324 2011-07-13 17:25:01 <gmaxwell> Well, the same nodes are going to be mobbed by everyoneâ since older nodes tend to hang up on you the connections on new nodes will be hot.
2325 2011-07-13 17:25:59 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I really dont trust my even comparative ratios of node counts anymore...
2326 2011-07-13 17:26:14 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: Im kinda hoping more dnsseeds come along...
2327 2011-07-13 17:26:24 <gmaxwell> well, better than mineâ which are utterly saturated by 32100,32002
2328 2011-07-13 17:26:47 <TD> BlueMatt: ah great
2329 2011-07-13 17:26:50 <BlueMatt> well maybe Ill set one up in my basement again, but until then I just dont think my numbers are better than no numbers
2330 2011-07-13 17:27:05 <gmaxwell> okay, well, I could also run a scan.
2331 2011-07-13 17:27:22 scott`_ has quit (Quit: scott`_)
2332 2011-07-13 17:27:22 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/dnsseed
2333 2011-07-13 17:27:32 dev_ has joined
2334 2011-07-13 17:28:23 Fireball has joined
2335 2011-07-13 17:28:26 <gmaxwell> man, I think it was a really bad idea to split the IRC channels in one step. Poor .21 nodes are desperate for love now.
2336 2011-07-13 17:29:14 * BlueMatt thinks he needs to run a net scan again and if the numbers are bad (which I think they might still be) a notification is in order
2337 2011-07-13 17:29:49 <gmaxwell> we've certantly not done all that we could first.
2338 2011-07-13 17:29:59 <BlueMatt> what else could we do now?
2339 2011-07-13 17:30:18 <gmaxwell> Before doing a notification we should get banners onto the big bitcoin sites, startup repeated automatic nags in IRC
2340 2011-07-13 17:30:23 <TD> well
2341 2011-07-13 17:30:27 <TD> people on old software should upgrade
2342 2011-07-13 17:30:34 <TD> more aggressive upgrade nags are definitely worth having
2343 2011-07-13 17:31:18 <gmaxwell> Alsoâ there are still no mac binaries on the site.
2344 2011-07-13 17:31:25 <b4epoche> was there any end-user reason to upgrade?
2345 2011-07-13 17:31:27 <BlueMatt> wonder where laszlo went?
2346 2011-07-13 17:31:27 again is now known as tower
2347 2011-07-13 17:31:30 <gmaxwell> So running a notification when some users can't actually upgrade.
2348 2011-07-13 17:31:39 <gmaxwell> b4epoche: bitcoin not failing to work is an end user reason.
2349 2011-07-13 17:31:45 <BlueMatt> didnt realize laszlo still hadnt built...
2350 2011-07-13 17:31:54 B0g4r7_ has joined
2351 2011-07-13 17:32:26 <b4epoche> but was there anything compelling? seems like the .2x didn't offer a compelling reason to upgrade
2352 2011-07-13 17:32:29 <gmaxwell> TD: I'd prefer to really treat the network notice as a last resort, so that we actually have one.
2353 2011-07-13 17:32:41 <b4epoche> I think the encrypted wallet will compel users
2354 2011-07-13 17:33:00 <TD> i think breaking the ability for new users to get on board is pretty critical
2355 2011-07-13 17:33:05 <b4epoche> I'd be happy to make some Mac (Wx and Cocoa) binaries
2356 2011-07-13 17:33:08 <gmaxwell> b4epoche: lower fees, not sitting at 0 connected for a half hour at startup. These are really compelling things.
2357 2011-07-13 17:33:29 freakazoid has joined
2358 2011-07-13 17:33:34 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2359 2011-07-13 17:33:37 <b4epoche> didn't .21 not have fees or something?
2360 2011-07-13 17:33:38 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
2361 2011-07-13 17:33:39 TheAncientGoat has joined
2362 2011-07-13 17:33:46 AndyBr has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2363 2011-07-13 17:34:06 <b4epoche> you'd have 0 connected for half an hour at /every/ startup?
2364 2011-07-13 17:34:31 jav__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2365 2011-07-13 17:34:44 <BlueMatt> .24, by enabling dnsseeds automatically also meant that it got ridiculously fast times to first connect
2366 2011-07-13 17:34:52 <BlueMatt> often the first one before the gui loads
2367 2011-07-13 17:36:58 fahadsadah has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2368 2011-07-13 17:37:21 BTC832 has joined
2369 2011-07-13 17:37:23 <BTC832> hi
2370 2011-07-13 17:37:33 <BTC832> i'm trying to read teh source
2371 2011-07-13 17:38:15 <BTC832> is there a javascript implementation of bitcoin address validation ?
2372 2011-07-13 17:38:34 <diki> ;;bc,stats
2373 2011-07-13 17:38:37 <gribble> Current Blocks: 136109 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 978 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 10 hours, 18 minutes, and 24 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1641448.67751913
2374 2011-07-13 17:39:29 <BTC832> question about line 105: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/base58.h
2375 2011-07-13 17:39:35 koleg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2376 2011-07-13 17:39:36 BTC832 is now known as jazzanova_
2377 2011-07-13 17:39:46 <jazzanova_> can someone explain to me what's it doing there
2378 2011-07-13 17:39:47 <jazzanova_> ?
2379 2011-07-13 17:40:55 fahadsadah has joined
2380 2011-07-13 17:41:50 <gmaxwell> jazzanova_: decodes the address, hashes the first 160 bits, compares the result with the last 32.
2381 2011-07-13 17:41:51 p0s- has joined
2382 2011-07-13 17:42:10 <jazzanova_> I mean the bit with the leading zeros
2383 2011-07-13 17:42:13 p0s has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2384 2011-07-13 17:42:21 <jazzanova_> for (const char* p = psz; *p == pszBase58[0]; p++) nLeadingZeros++;
2385 2011-07-13 17:42:28 <jazzanova_> i don't follow
2386 2011-07-13 17:42:31 <gmaxwell> Oh I missed your prior line.
2387 2011-07-13 17:42:54 <jazzanova_> i changed nick from BTC832 to jazzanova
2388 2011-07-13 17:43:39 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
2389 2011-07-13 17:44:02 <gmaxwell> jazzanova_: if you have a values that begins with zeros, it just explicitly packs them as base58 zeros ("1"s)
2390 2011-07-13 17:44:37 SecretSJ has joined
2391 2011-07-13 17:45:29 <jazzanova_> aaa..
2392 2011-07-13 17:45:36 estornudo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2393 2011-07-13 17:46:44 <jazzanova_> base58 looses zeros, if number is converted from string to actual number.
2394 2011-07-13 17:46:50 <jazzanova_> i get it
2395 2011-07-13 17:47:05 <jazzanova_> hasn't anyone coded up in javascript this check ?
2396 2011-07-13 17:47:21 <jazzanova_> basically, I want validate_address in javascript
2397 2011-07-13 17:48:43 <OneTimePad> a regex would be an easy check to see if it is in the right format
2398 2011-07-13 17:48:44 <jazzanova_> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#Addresses <-- here it says that "leading zeroes are kept as single zeroes when conversion happens". So where is the single zero ?
2399 2011-07-13 17:48:50 erle- has joined
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2403 2011-07-13 17:48:56 <jazzanova_> is that only relevant for encode ?
2404 2011-07-13 17:48:57 <erle-> who fucked up the icon?
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2409 2011-07-13 17:51:58 <jazzanova_> OneTimePad: how'd you check with the regex ? that it starts with 1 and has no spaces ?
2410 2011-07-13 17:53:43 <OneTimePad> There are good regex on the forum, check that it starts with a 1, no white space, certain length, and only contains base58 characters.
2411 2011-07-13 17:55:02 dbram32 has joined
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2415 2011-07-13 18:00:34 <gmaxwell> So how do we get an obnoxous please upgrade your bitcoin notice on the forum?
2416 2011-07-13 18:01:06 <BlueMatt> first we get the 0.3.24 thread stickied
2417 2011-07-13 18:01:56 ahbritto has joined
2418 2011-07-13 18:01:58 <tcatm> bitcoin could check automatically for new updates. whenever it sees a version message with a later version it could notify the user
2419 2011-07-13 18:02:20 <BlueMatt> too much nasty node anoy users potential there...
2420 2011-07-13 18:02:23 <gmaxwell> "sees a version message with a later version" nah, thats way too easily abused.
2421 2011-07-13 18:02:28 <BlueMatt> but I am working on a gitian updater thing...
2422 2011-07-13 18:02:48 <gmaxwell> We could add another kind of notification though. E.g. something a little less obnoxious than the alerts.
2423 2011-07-13 18:03:02 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2424 2011-07-13 18:03:29 <tcatm> or if > 30% of connected nodes (when connection count is >= 8) have a newer version
2425 2011-07-13 18:03:58 <gmaxwell> thats at least a bit less prone to abuse...
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2429 2011-07-13 18:05:05 <unclemantis> is there something fuggly going on with mtgox today?
2430 2011-07-13 18:05:19 <tcatm> then again, it's probably easier to have http://bitcoin.org/latest_version.json that is checked once at every startup
2431 2011-07-13 18:05:55 <unclemantis> I deposited 50btc. I put in a sell order for 50btc. The stupid thing puts in an order for like 31btc and then that is not correct so i cancel that order and now i have 31btc in my account. WHERE IS THE OTHER 19!?
2432 2011-07-13 18:06:10 dikidera has joined
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2434 2011-07-13 18:08:26 <unclemantis> never mind
2435 2011-07-13 18:08:30 <unclemantis> mtgox is WEIRD
2436 2011-07-13 18:08:37 <unclemantis> not using mtgox again
2437 2011-07-13 18:08:39 <unclemantis> EVER
2438 2011-07-13 18:10:25 <edGe06> you find your 19 btc?
2439 2011-07-13 18:10:33 Joric has joined
2440 2011-07-13 18:12:20 stuhood has joined
2441 2011-07-13 18:12:22 <unclemantis> ya i got it
2442 2011-07-13 18:12:32 <unclemantis> their reporting system is unlike tradehill
2443 2011-07-13 18:12:32 <tcatm> unclemantis: try britcoin for a really weird exchange :)
2444 2011-07-13 18:13:13 stuhood has left ()
2445 2011-07-13 18:13:17 <unclemantis> i am usualy a tradehiller but i was cashing out 50btc so i figured i would use mtgox this time around
2446 2011-07-13 18:13:23 <unclemantis> nearly shit myself LOL
2447 2011-07-13 18:13:30 <edGe06> lol yeah no kidding
2448 2011-07-13 18:14:14 conjre has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2449 2011-07-13 18:14:23 <unclemantis> and what is up with those occasional MYSQL connection error messages?
2450 2011-07-13 18:14:27 <unclemantis> that freaks me the hell out
2451 2011-07-13 18:14:44 <unclemantis> if my bank ever did that I would be at the nearest branch faster than .....
2452 2011-07-13 18:15:25 bc has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2453 2011-07-13 18:18:27 TD has joined
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2455 2011-07-13 18:21:14 <upb> so what happened ith the 19btc ?:P
2456 2011-07-13 18:21:51 darksk1ez has joined
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2458 2011-07-13 18:22:40 <devrandom> TD: hi there
2459 2011-07-13 18:22:42 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
2460 2011-07-13 18:22:43 <TD> yo
2461 2011-07-13 18:23:02 molecular has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2462 2011-07-13 18:23:13 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr combo * rc76625a1e054 poclbm-personal/phatk.cl: Merge branch 'optimized_phatk' into combo http://tinyurl.com/6ffobek
2463 2011-07-13 18:23:14 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr combo * r26cefdea1f6f poclbm-personal/BitcoinMiner.py: Merge branch 'submit_retry' into combo http://tinyurl.com/6l2w5of
2464 2011-07-13 18:23:15 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr combo * r5af72839a2dd poclbm-personal/BitcoinMiner.py: Merge branch 'efficiency' into combo http://tinyurl.com/69khu7g
2465 2011-07-13 18:23:40 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: does that really need to show up in the chan?
2466 2011-07-13 18:24:40 <unclemantis> upb it ended up being sold into usd like i wanted
2467 2011-07-13 18:24:51 <unclemantis> the screen glitched though
2468 2011-07-13 18:25:00 molecular has joined
2469 2011-07-13 18:25:01 <unclemantis> and some how it split the transaction
2470 2011-07-13 18:25:10 <unclemantis> and then just put in for 19 and not the rest
2471 2011-07-13 18:25:17 <unclemantis> so i had to manualy put in seperate orders
2472 2011-07-13 18:25:31 <unclemantis> i guess 50 was too big for market
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2478 2011-07-13 18:33:34 <upb> thats really weird
2479 2011-07-13 18:33:40 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVMÂAVTEMÂCENSEOÂCVTTENBERCÂESSEÂDELENDVM)
2480 2011-07-13 18:34:04 again has joined
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2482 2011-07-13 18:35:09 <forrestv> nanotube, in the p2pool thread, what'd you mean by 'framework'?
2483 2011-07-13 18:35:18 pyro_ is now known as Guest82181
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2487 2011-07-13 18:38:59 again is now known as tower
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2495 2011-07-13 18:53:27 <forrestv> ah, the way it does the p2p stuff
2496 2011-07-13 18:53:53 pakimon has quit ()
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2501 2011-07-13 18:59:16 <denisx> so, mal wieder alle miner an den start gebracht
2502 2011-07-13 18:59:21 <denisx> oder bringen lassen
2503 2011-07-13 19:00:45 relm has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2504 2011-07-13 19:01:42 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2505 2011-07-13 19:01:54 <denisx> ups
2506 2011-07-13 19:01:56 <denisx> fc
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2514 2011-07-13 19:10:19 <Incitatus> tcatm, are you online
2515 2011-07-13 19:11:13 Sedra- has joined
2516 2011-07-13 19:13:38 <tcatm> Incitatus: yes
2517 2011-07-13 19:14:07 Sedra has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2518 2011-07-13 19:14:36 <nanotube> forrestv: i mean, how does it work :) a writeup similar to http://privwiki.dreamhosters.com/wiki/Distributed_mining_pool_proposal
2519 2011-07-13 19:16:43 molecular has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2520 2011-07-13 19:17:17 <gmaxwell> 11:22 < unclemantis> and some how it split the transaction
2521 2011-07-13 19:17:31 <gmaxwell> Have you ever used e.g. a stock market before?
2522 2011-07-13 19:17:40 <gmaxwell> sounds like 19 of your order were filled right away.
2523 2011-07-13 19:17:52 <gmaxwell> MTGOX doesn't have fill-or-kill transactions orthe like.
2524 2011-07-13 19:18:34 Fireball has quit (Quit: ROS is the power.)
2525 2011-07-13 19:20:41 <Incitatus> tcatm, could you not say because of data consistency errors
2526 2011-07-13 19:20:45 senseles has quit (Quit: ircN 8.00 for mIRC (20100904) - www.ircN.org)
2527 2011-07-13 19:20:52 <Incitatus> because that is simply not true
2528 2011-07-13 19:21:32 pyro_ has joined
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2530 2011-07-13 19:22:38 <tcatm> Incitatus: sure. if you can get wardearia to remove that stupid forum post, too.
2531 2011-07-13 19:23:59 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, those will be implemented on britcoin soon ;)
2532 2011-07-13 19:25:40 AlonzoTG has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2533 2011-07-13 19:25:41 nus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2534 2011-07-13 19:26:01 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: ::shrugs:: I think they're mostly of little value, but...
2535 2011-07-13 19:26:17 SecretSJ has quit (Quit: Always try to be modest, and be proud about it!)
2536 2011-07-13 19:26:22 <phantomcircuit> they have value as market orders with a cap
2537 2011-07-13 19:26:27 nus has joined
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2539 2011-07-13 19:30:39 <TD> huh
2540 2011-07-13 19:30:48 <TD> a tx i sent just changed status to "0/offline?"
2541 2011-07-13 19:30:53 <TD> but i'm not offline. just catching up with the chain
2542 2011-07-13 19:31:00 <kreal-> is http://svn.json-rpc.org/trunk/python-jsonrpc down ?
2543 2011-07-13 19:31:18 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2544 2011-07-13 19:31:32 <tcatm> TD: from 0/unconfirmed or from X/confirmed?
2545 2011-07-13 19:31:40 <TD> from 0/unconfirmed
2546 2011-07-13 19:31:52 <TD> i wonder if the tx didn't get broadcast because it was so overloaded processing new blocks
2547 2011-07-13 19:32:32 <tcatm> I think the client considers it offline if it receives a new block without the tx.
2548 2011-07-13 19:32:36 * TD retrestarts bitcoin
2549 2011-07-13 19:32:37 <TD> oh, right
2550 2011-07-13 19:32:53 <kreal-> anyone got a place I can download python-jsonrpc
2551 2011-07-13 19:35:02 <makomk> Hmmmm. Any ideas what might cause this build failure for the Gentoo ebuild? http://pastebin.com/ba9vMAVk
2552 2011-07-13 19:35:14 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, so the problem was that there was an order with amount or rate higher than 9999999999.99999999 correct?
2553 2011-07-13 19:35:35 <jgarzik> makomk: it's confused about bitcoin version
2554 2011-07-13 19:35:43 <jgarzik> makomk: all source code was moved into 'src' directory recently
2555 2011-07-13 19:36:13 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: not exactly. the decimal representation of the amount didn't fit in 10.8 digits
2556 2011-07-13 19:36:53 <phantomcircuit> so anything not fitting in a NUMERIC(18,8) will be rejected by the api and cause the entire exchange to be delisted?
2557 2011-07-13 19:37:10 <tcatm> yes
2558 2011-07-13 19:37:19 danbri has joined
2559 2011-07-13 19:37:24 <phantomcircuit> then how is tradehill still listed?
2560 2011-07-13 19:37:35 <phantomcircuit> ['1523810004.9300000668', '0.0100000000'] in asks
2561 2011-07-13 19:39:38 <kreal-> ok thne
2562 2011-07-13 19:39:38 <gmaxwell> when tradehill first went up I put in an order at 999 and knocked all of tcam's pretty graphs off-scale.
2563 2011-07-13 19:41:53 <makomk> Aha. On closer inspection, the build directory... is almost entirely empty.
2564 2011-07-13 19:42:29 <gmaxwell> but that was fixed pretty quickly.
2565 2011-07-13 19:43:36 Guest72717 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2566 2011-07-13 19:44:28 BTCTrader has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2567 2011-07-13 19:44:47 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: that's a bug. it looks like the number is rounded
2568 2011-07-13 19:44:54 Sedra- is now known as Sedra
2569 2011-07-13 19:45:03 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, rounded on your end?
2570 2011-07-13 19:45:08 rob-cameron has joined
2571 2011-07-13 19:45:09 <tcatm> yes
2572 2011-07-13 19:45:15 <rob-cameron> hhey
2573 2011-07-13 19:45:18 <phantomcircuit> im assuming it's because they pass it as a json string and you're using decimal.Decimal
2574 2011-07-13 19:45:27 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: probably
2575 2011-07-13 19:45:37 <rob-cameron> anyone buying i have 42 @ 14ppusd
2576 2011-07-13 19:45:38 <rob-cameron> pm
2577 2011-07-13 19:46:06 liltoe has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2578 2011-07-13 19:46:28 <BlueMatt> rob-cameron: #bitcoin-otc not here
2579 2011-07-13 19:46:53 <TD> wow
2580 2011-07-13 19:46:56 <TD> the network instability is brutal
2581 2011-07-13 19:47:06 * TD is watching andreas' android app try to sync the block chain
2582 2011-07-13 19:47:06 <BlueMatt> instability as in?
2583 2011-07-13 19:47:11 <TD> i had to restart it several times to get a 0.3.24+ peer :(
2584 2011-07-13 19:47:23 <BlueMatt> just use dnsseed and clear your addr.dat
2585 2011-07-13 19:47:24 <TD> there are tons of "connection timed out" or "socket disconnected" errors. sigh.
2586 2011-07-13 19:47:25 liltoe has joined
2587 2011-07-13 19:47:32 <TD> this is the android app so there's no addr.dat :)
2588 2011-07-13 19:47:38 <TD> i guess it isn't using your dns seed yet
2589 2011-07-13 19:47:41 <BlueMatt> doesnt it keep something similar?
2590 2011-07-13 19:47:44 <TD> nope
2591 2011-07-13 19:47:50 <TD> discovers new peers on every startup
2592 2011-07-13 19:47:51 <gmaxwell> Thats busted.
2593 2011-07-13 19:48:07 <phantomcircuit> not really
2594 2011-07-13 19:48:11 <gmaxwell> (and extra vulnerable to attack by sybils or the IRC operators)
2595 2011-07-13 19:48:15 <TD> it doesn't use irc
2596 2011-07-13 19:48:16 <TD> it uses dns
2597 2011-07-13 19:48:39 traviscj has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2598 2011-07-13 19:48:44 <gmaxwell> well, then the likewise, totally vulnerable to attack by the dns seed operators.
2599 2011-07-13 19:49:45 <BlueMatt> TD: my dnsseed is 0.3.24 only, the rest...probably all old and full of connections...
2600 2011-07-13 19:49:49 <jrmithdobbs> well it's a 'thin' client or whatever they're called anyways
2601 2011-07-13 19:49:54 <TD> yeah
2602 2011-07-13 19:49:57 <jrmithdobbs> seed operator issues are the least of it's worries
2603 2011-07-13 19:49:58 <gmaxwell> Does it at least have hardcoded checkpoints? or can I get all its connections and feed it a fantasy difficulty 1 chain?
2604 2011-07-13 19:50:00 <TD> i've asked andreas to patch up to the latest bitcoinj
2605 2011-07-13 19:50:06 <TD> i have a feeling they aren't doing it because the wallet format changed
2606 2011-07-13 19:50:14 <rob-cameron> anyone wonna buy 41btc at 13ppusd
2607 2011-07-13 19:50:21 <BlueMatt> rob-cameron: NOT HERE
2608 2011-07-13 19:50:25 <TD> gmaxwell: yes, you can feed it a fantasy chain. the apps both come with health warnings at the bottom :)
2609 2011-07-13 19:50:29 clarkbox has quit (Quit: bya!)
2610 2011-07-13 19:50:37 bc has joined
2611 2011-07-13 19:50:40 <TD> honestly they released prodnet versions without really asking me
2612 2011-07-13 19:50:45 <TD> kind of jumped the gun a bit
2613 2011-07-13 19:51:03 <jrmithdobbs> ya sonuds like that shouldn't really be available tothe masses yet
2614 2011-07-13 19:51:18 <gmaxwell> Thats crap. :-/
2615 2011-07-13 19:51:22 * TD shrugs
2616 2011-07-13 19:51:40 <TD> well, it's not robust against sophisticated attackers
2617 2011-07-13 19:51:47 <TD> as it says at the bottom
2618 2011-07-13 19:51:52 <TD> it'll get better over time
2619 2011-07-13 19:52:14 <gmaxwell> Mining a fantasy chain isn't exactly all that sophisticated.
2620 2011-07-13 19:52:18 * jrmithdobbs goes and rates it down in the market
2621 2011-07-13 19:52:31 Speeder has quit (Quit: Speeder)
2622 2011-07-13 19:52:35 datagutt has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2623 2011-07-13 19:53:08 traviscj has joined
2624 2011-07-13 19:53:13 <BlueMatt> nanotube: that was scottlad?
2625 2011-07-13 19:53:17 <nanotube> BlueMatt: yes
2626 2011-07-13 19:53:31 <gmaxwell> I wondered... uk.. same moronic behavior.
2627 2011-07-13 19:53:33 freakazoid has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2628 2011-07-13 19:53:34 <BlueMatt> damn that guy is anoying...
2629 2011-07-13 19:54:25 <BlueMatt> the node in my basement keeps filling with connections...the second node which downloads the chain for the nightly chains isnt able to get a connection...
2630 2011-07-13 19:54:26 <jrmithdobbs> jesus christ
2631 2011-07-13 19:54:30 <jrmithdobbs> why is that 14MB?
2632 2011-07-13 19:54:30 <TD> there are a crapload of nodes out there was incomplete chains
2633 2011-07-13 19:54:43 <TD> jrmithdobbs: it includes a copy of the block chain headers up until sunday
2634 2011-07-13 19:54:49 <TD> so you don't have to wait for it to download
2635 2011-07-13 19:55:17 <TD> 07-13 21:50:01.658: WARN/System.err(17090): 1630402 [backgroundThread] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.NetworkConnection - Connected to peer: version=32400, subVer='', services=0x1, time=Wed Jul 13 21:50:55 CEST 2011, blocks=40000
2636 2011-07-13 19:55:21 <jrmithdobbs> well if it ever actually finishes installing i'll rate it down ;p
2637 2011-07-13 19:55:21 <TD> 07-13 21:50:02.236: WARN/System.err(17090): 1630981 [backgroundThread] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.NetworkConnection - Connected to peer: version=32400, subVer='', services=0x1, time=Wed Jul 13 21:50:55 CEST 2011, blocks=136136
2638 2011-07-13 19:55:26 <TD> 07-13 21:50:05.123: WARN/System.err(17090): 1633869 [backgroundThread] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.NetworkConnection - Connected to peer: version=32400, subVer='', services=0x1, time=Wed Jul 13 21:50:36 CEST 2011, blocks=24594
2639 2011-07-13 19:55:35 <TD> :(
2640 2011-07-13 19:55:41 <BlueMatt> that guy has to be on initial download...
2641 2011-07-13 19:55:45 <TD> hopefully
2642 2011-07-13 19:55:45 <makomk> TD: wallet format changed? Fun...
2643 2011-07-13 19:55:52 clarkbox has joined
2644 2011-07-13 19:55:53 <BlueMatt> oh you know what, dnsseed should check that it has a sane block height...
2645 2011-07-13 19:55:54 <TD> makomk: like i said. it wasn't really ready to be used in user facing apps
2646 2011-07-13 19:56:14 <makomk> There was someone onthe forums who needed to get his keys out of the Android app, which appears to be really buggy. Guess that explains it.
2647 2011-07-13 19:56:31 <jrmithdobbs> TD: ya, no, bitcoinj is awesome, having released a prodnet client at this point not so much
2648 2011-07-13 19:56:34 <jrmithdobbs> ;p
2649 2011-07-13 19:56:46 <TD> yeah. well, it's partly buggyness
2650 2011-07-13 19:56:49 <TD> but mostly network problems
2651 2011-07-13 19:56:55 <TD> there are a LOT of nodes that won't serve the block chain
2652 2011-07-13 19:57:04 <TD> unfortunately i don't have any kind of version restrict in there
2653 2011-07-13 19:57:11 <TD> so these mobile apps spend a lot of time getting flooded off
2654 2011-07-13 19:57:11 <makomk> Ah.
2655 2011-07-13 19:57:34 <BlueMatt> TD: well that should be in the dnsseed stuff not in the node...
2656 2011-07-13 19:57:48 <TD> yeah, it could be either
2657 2011-07-13 19:58:37 <TD> btw this is the one i mean
2658 2011-07-13 19:58:37 <TD> https://market.android.com/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet
2659 2011-07-13 19:58:43 dedeibel has joined
2660 2011-07-13 19:58:44 <TD> it's pretty slick, ui wise
2661 2011-07-13 19:58:49 <phantomcircuit> sometimes im tempted to setup a node that just returns bullshit data
2662 2011-07-13 19:58:49 <TD> it's the core that lets it down :)
2663 2011-07-13 19:58:54 <BlueMatt> who wrote it?
2664 2011-07-13 19:59:25 <BlueMatt> I wish you could do both backend and/or rpc based on settings...
2665 2011-07-13 19:59:33 <BlueMatt> looks really awsome but I prefer to run my own node
2666 2011-07-13 19:59:45 <TD> andreas schildbach
2667 2011-07-13 19:59:54 <BlueMatt> do you know his nick?
2668 2011-07-13 19:59:58 <TD> well i suppose it could be forced to connect to a specific node
2669 2011-07-13 20:00:01 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: there already are some
2670 2011-07-13 20:00:01 <TD> it'd be a power user feature
2671 2011-07-13 20:00:07 <TD> damn thing isn't seeing my sent coins for some reason
2672 2011-07-13 20:00:17 <BlueMatt> no, I mean rpc client instead of full thing
2673 2011-07-13 20:00:19 <TD> BlueMatt: don't think he is on irc
2674 2011-07-13 20:00:22 <TD> oh right, i see
2675 2011-07-13 20:00:25 <BlueMatt> forum?
2676 2011-07-13 20:00:26 <jrmithdobbs> TD: blockchain snapshot should be a separate app not the main app. now you have to re-download newer blocks every time an update gets pushed from the market
2677 2011-07-13 20:00:28 <TD> there is BitPay, frontend to instawallet
2678 2011-07-13 20:00:42 <TD> BlueMatt: goonie on the forum
2679 2011-07-13 20:00:53 <phantomcircuit> tcatm, lol intentionally?
2680 2011-07-13 20:00:55 <TD> jrmithdobbs: yeah it should probably be fetched via http when the app first starts or something
2681 2011-07-13 20:01:36 <tcatm> phantomcircuit: no idea. I've seen them while writing my "connect to every node and dump everything it broadcasts" client
2682 2011-07-13 20:01:47 <jrmithdobbs> TD: no way to manually specify a trusted peer either?
2683 2011-07-13 20:01:51 <jrmithdobbs> wow
2684 2011-07-13 20:02:01 <TD> nope. it's not designed for power users.
2685 2011-07-13 20:02:03 freakazoid has joined
2686 2011-07-13 20:02:13 <TD> and i disagree mining a fake chain is an easy attack
2687 2011-07-13 20:02:31 <TD> it means you have to be able to intercept the guys phones internet connection, and do a trade with him in an untrusted manner
2688 2011-07-13 20:02:41 <jrmithdobbs> like
2689 2011-07-13 20:02:43 <TD> which *today* isn't gonna happen because most bitcoiners, if they meet face to face
2690 2011-07-13 20:02:47 <TD> are not going to trade lots of money
2691 2011-07-13 20:02:57 <jrmithdobbs> convince him to join your wifi network?
2692 2011-07-13 20:03:00 <jrmithdobbs> seems pretty easy to me
2693 2011-07-13 20:03:18 <TD> by the time untrusted counterparties are using android bitcoin apps regularly, this stuff will be fixed
2694 2011-07-13 20:03:21 <TD> there'll be checkpoints and so on
2695 2011-07-13 20:03:30 <TD> making the damn thing work at all is the first priority
2696 2011-07-13 20:03:37 <IO-> well I will when i hire hitmen for bitcoins
2697 2011-07-13 20:03:41 <IO-> we'll call them bitmen
2698 2011-07-13 20:03:58 viggi has quit (Quit: leaving)
2699 2011-07-13 20:04:11 * jrmithdobbs goes to release a cyanogen update.zip with bitcoin stealing code in the wifi hotspot
2700 2011-07-13 20:04:12 <IO-> Also - I hate people that don't ever use subjects in emails. Fuck them.
2701 2011-07-13 20:04:14 <TD> i suspect the problem is partly my phone or connection somehow
2702 2011-07-13 20:04:22 <TD> the market app is flaky as hell too
2703 2011-07-13 20:04:31 <TD> it was seeing lots of connection resets. annoying.
2704 2011-07-13 20:04:35 <jrmithdobbs> ya it's downloading the headers fine for me
2705 2011-07-13 20:04:51 <TD> hmm
2706 2011-07-13 20:04:56 <TD> just me then. crapola.
2707 2011-07-13 20:05:00 <jrmithdobbs> there's no way to exit this app?!
2708 2011-07-13 20:05:08 <TD> hm? it's an android app
2709 2011-07-13 20:05:12 <TD> there's no exit. just use the back button
2710 2011-07-13 20:05:17 <jrmithdobbs> oh there it goes it kills the background process with the back button
2711 2011-07-13 20:05:54 amiller has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2712 2011-07-13 20:06:47 <TD> there we go. switching to 3G made it a lot more stable.
2713 2011-07-13 20:06:50 <TD> annoying. i wonder what's up with my wifi
2714 2011-07-13 20:07:00 <TD> btw the newer bitcoinj is much faster to download the chain
2715 2011-07-13 20:07:28 Xunie has joined
2716 2011-07-13 20:07:59 <jrmithdobbs> better be, was going pretty slow on my wimax connection
2717 2011-07-13 20:08:03 <jrmithdobbs> heh
2718 2011-07-13 20:08:03 <IO-> TD: maybe it doesn't support upnp?
2719 2011-07-13 20:08:19 <IO-> does 3G gives you a public ip?
2720 2011-07-13 20:08:20 <jrmithdobbs> it doesn't support inbound connections at all so why would that matter
2721 2011-07-13 20:08:24 <dikidera> the client enforces 120 blocks before you get your block confirmed, right? I heard you can change that 120 block limit to something lower
2722 2011-07-13 20:08:25 <IO-> oh
2723 2011-07-13 20:08:26 <TD> i was getting 3/4 blocks per second
2724 2011-07-13 20:08:27 <dikidera> how lower?
2725 2011-07-13 20:08:33 <TD> not high enough :)
2726 2011-07-13 20:08:42 <jrmithdobbs> dikidera: don't
2727 2011-07-13 20:08:54 <dikidera> and why not?
2728 2011-07-13 20:09:02 <jrmithdobbs> dikidera: you can technically lower it to 101 but it is not in your interest to do so
2729 2011-07-13 20:09:14 <gmaxwell> 12:59 < TD> and i disagree mining a fake chain is an easy attack
2730 2011-07-13 20:09:14 <gmaxwell> 12:59 < TD> it means you have to be able to intercept the guys phones internet connection, and do a trade with him in an untrusted manner
2731 2011-07-13 20:09:27 <gmaxwell> TD: it just means I need to be able to control or poison his dns.
2732 2011-07-13 20:09:36 <TD> and obviously, know enough about bitcoin to actually make a fake chain in the first place
2733 2011-07-13 20:09:45 <jrmithdobbs> if something bad/unexpected happens in those 19 blocks you can end up with bad things(tm) happening
2734 2011-07-13 20:09:49 <TD> and then hope that the user doesn't notice the dates reset to 2009 in his notification bar
2735 2011-07-13 20:10:00 <TD> gmaxwell: yes, exactly.
2736 2011-07-13 20:10:12 <jrmithdobbs> TD: i'll go throw up an update.zip somewhere to help people do this if it'll get you to get them to pull the app
2737 2011-07-13 20:10:26 <TD> an update.zip that does what
2738 2011-07-13 20:10:30 <gmaxwell> They won't reset to 2009. You remove the checkpoints, and then just don't connect to the main net. Connect to a second isolated node and it will make a nice fake chain.
2739 2011-07-13 20:10:36 <jrmithdobbs> it seriously would be trivial to mod the wifi hotspot/tether stuff to do bad things to anyone who connect's bitcoin connections
2740 2011-07-13 20:10:56 <TD> gmaxwell: the user will see it downloading the new fake chain
2741 2011-07-13 20:11:07 <TD> gmaxwell: it shows you the date it's downloaded up to in the notification bar
2742 2011-07-13 20:11:17 <TD> but at any rate, we're not discussing what may happen a year or two from now.
2743 2011-07-13 20:11:18 dbram32 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2744 2011-07-13 20:11:21 josephholsten has joined
2745 2011-07-13 20:11:22 josephholsten has quit (Excess Flood)
2746 2011-07-13 20:11:24 <gmaxwell> TD: Not if it starts off with a fake chain.
2747 2011-07-13 20:11:28 <TD> this sort of attack is probably not going to happen in the next few months
2748 2011-07-13 20:11:35 <gmaxwell> A year or two from now? this is an attack I could perform this week.
2749 2011-07-13 20:11:39 <TD> no it's not
2750 2011-07-13 20:11:47 <jrmithdobbs> yes it is?
2751 2011-07-13 20:11:52 <gmaxwell> It would take me five days to mine up to the current block count at difficulty one.
2752 2011-07-13 20:12:23 josephholsten has joined
2753 2011-07-13 20:12:23 <gmaxwell> The only thing that makes the attack unattractive is that not many people use that vulnerable client.
2754 2011-07-13 20:12:24 josephholsten has quit (Excess Flood)
2755 2011-07-13 20:12:25 <TD> and then you have to get my phone to connect to your node, and prevent me from noticing that my existing transactions all vanished
2756 2011-07-13 20:12:36 <TD> and hope i don't notice the date roll back to 2009 and then grow again
2757 2011-07-13 20:12:42 <TD> when it takes ages to download the new chain from scratch
2758 2011-07-13 20:12:49 <TD> well there you go. that's what i am saying
2759 2011-07-13 20:12:55 <jrmithdobbs> not if the new chain all comes from the local net it doesn't
2760 2011-07-13 20:13:00 <TD> *in practice* there are not many people using an experimental, buggy client
2761 2011-07-13 20:13:04 <gmaxwell> Hopefully if you've actually seen the real chain you wouldn't switch to a fork at lower difficulty. Otherwise it's not applying the correct length rule.
2762 2011-07-13 20:13:10 <TD> by the time there are lots of people doing so, there will be more security features
2763 2011-07-13 20:13:21 <TD> it is indeed using the right length rule
2764 2011-07-13 20:13:30 <TD> so yeah, you're right. thinking about it, you wouldn't be able to replace with a fake chain
2765 2011-07-13 20:13:32 <gmaxwell> In any case, fantasy chanins are killed dead by good checkpoints.
2766 2011-07-13 20:13:34 <TD> it already has a copy of the real one
2767 2011-07-13 20:13:44 <gmaxwell> TD: not if its a new node, however.
2768 2011-07-13 20:13:54 <TD> as jrmithdobbs observed, a copy of the headers comes with the app
2769 2011-07-13 20:14:02 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: chain hashes are in the app download (they shouldn't be, though)
2770 2011-07-13 20:14:09 <gmaxwell> Oh they do? well then yea, I'm done then. Cool.
2771 2011-07-13 20:14:15 <jrmithdobbs> they're going to have to be removed to be able to do proper updates
2772 2011-07-13 20:14:25 <jrmithdobbs> that was pretty short sighted
2773 2011-07-13 20:14:29 <TD> yeah, android market doesn't do delta updates :(
2774 2011-07-13 20:14:48 <gmaxwell> Considering chrome's crazy delta updates, I'm surprised.
2775 2011-07-13 20:14:57 <TD> chrome and android don't overlap much, unfortunately
2776 2011-07-13 20:15:02 <jrmithdobbs> right now updating the app would wipe the app's knowledge of it's own txn history
2777 2011-07-13 20:15:04 <TD> android could benefit from doing things more chrome-like, imho
2778 2011-07-13 20:15:14 <TD> jrmithdobbs: why do you say that ?
2779 2011-07-13 20:15:41 <jrmithdobbs> TD: because new app would start with a new snapshot of the chain which, if your txns are older than the new snapshot, that means you wont see your own txns
2780 2011-07-13 20:16:05 <TD> transactions are stored in the wallet
2781 2011-07-13 20:16:19 <TD> the block chain file only stores headers. it's used for handling re-orgs and checking difficulty transitions, etc
2782 2011-07-13 20:16:47 <jrmithdobbs> where does it store the wallet btw? /data?
2783 2011-07-13 20:16:48 josephholsten has joined
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2785 2011-07-13 20:16:59 <TD> in the apps private data area, yeah
2786 2011-07-13 20:17:12 <jrmithdobbs> so no way to copy it off the device?
2787 2011-07-13 20:17:21 <jrmithdobbs> (without being rooted)
2788 2011-07-13 20:17:46 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2789 2011-07-13 20:17:48 <TD> right. one of the many problems and missing features.
2790 2011-07-13 20:17:55 <TD> well
2791 2011-07-13 20:17:57 <TD> also a security feature
2792 2011-07-13 20:18:02 <TD> there needs to be a controlled way to export the wallet
2793 2011-07-13 20:18:03 viggi has joined
2794 2011-07-13 20:18:04 BTCTrader has joined
2795 2011-07-13 20:18:24 <TD> if you have a fully up to date phone, like a nexus s, i don't think there's an easy way to get the wallet off the device even if you steal it.
2796 2011-07-13 20:18:32 <TD> reflashing it via the bootloader wipes data
2797 2011-07-13 20:18:34 BTCTrader is now known as Guest95771
2798 2011-07-13 20:18:42 <jrmithdobbs> ya you can
2799 2011-07-13 20:18:48 <TD> you'd have to find a new local root exploit that wasn't patched yet. AFAIK there aren't any for latest gingerbread
2800 2011-07-13 20:19:05 <jrmithdobbs> you use one of the runtime priv escalations and grab it
2801 2011-07-13 20:19:13 <TD> which one?
2802 2011-07-13 20:19:20 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2803 2011-07-13 20:19:26 <jrmithdobbs> ok, sure if they're running 2.3.4 *right now* you're right
2804 2011-07-13 20:19:29 <TD> yeah
2805 2011-07-13 20:19:32 <TD> aren't all nexus s users?
2806 2011-07-13 20:19:38 <TD> i know tons of people aren't
2807 2011-07-13 20:19:42 <jrmithdobbs> but that's exactly 2 classes of phone, the nexus s, and people running cm7.1-rc
2808 2011-07-13 20:19:50 <TD> dunno how many manufacturers backported the fixes to their forks
2809 2011-07-13 20:19:52 <jrmithdobbs> so, what, ~4% of the android userbase?
2810 2011-07-13 20:19:58 <TD> nexus 1 is also fully up to date, afaik
2811 2011-07-13 20:20:05 <jrmithdobbs> ok so ~15%
2812 2011-07-13 20:20:17 <TD> and like i said, some OEMs do backport fixes. i don't know which ones have it. but i understand your point
2813 2011-07-13 20:20:23 <TD> smartphones aren't exactly smartcards
2814 2011-07-13 20:21:02 <jrmithdobbs> motorola/se/htc phones all still have the local priv escalations in their current firmwares afaik
2815 2011-07-13 20:21:13 <jrmithdobbs> and non-nexus samsungs
2816 2011-07-13 20:21:26 torsthaldo_ has joined
2817 2011-07-13 20:21:26 * BlueMatt is pissed that they are coming out with another nexus a month or two after he has to buy a new phone...
2818 2011-07-13 20:21:29 <BlueMatt> damn you google
2819 2011-07-13 20:21:35 pyro_ has joined
2820 2011-07-13 20:22:01 pyro_ is now known as Guest80003
2821 2011-07-13 20:22:07 torsthaldo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2822 2011-07-13 20:22:19 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: are they actually going to release one with enough storage to be usable or a sdcard slot this time?
2823 2011-07-13 20:22:24 <jrmithdobbs> because the nexus s is trash
2824 2011-07-13 20:22:33 <BlueMatt> what phone do you have?
2825 2011-07-13 20:22:35 <jrmithdobbs> 16G? what is this 2006?
2826 2011-07-13 20:22:52 <jrmithdobbs> htc evo
2827 2011-07-13 20:23:26 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, lol my aria is 512MB
2828 2011-07-13 20:23:26 <jrmithdobbs> most likely going back to iphone if apple will get off their ass and upgrade the hardware already
2829 2011-07-13 20:23:29 <phantomcircuit> feels bad man
2830 2011-07-13 20:23:35 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: ya but it has an sdcard slot
2831 2011-07-13 20:23:48 <phantomcircuit> some apps cant be app2sd'd
2832 2011-07-13 20:24:01 <phantomcircuit> i always run out of space
2833 2011-07-13 20:24:02 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: don't care about apps, i have ~20G of data on my phone
2834 2011-07-13 20:24:10 <phantomcircuit> oh
2835 2011-07-13 20:24:16 <jrmithdobbs> mostly music
2836 2011-07-13 20:24:18 <phantomcircuit> yeah whatever i can get a 32 gb sd card
2837 2011-07-13 20:24:26 <jrmithdobbs> ya i have one
2838 2011-07-13 20:24:39 <jrmithdobbs> can't use it in a nexus s or i'd already have gotten one, lol
2839 2011-07-13 20:26:10 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2840 2011-07-13 20:26:18 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: where'd you see they're releasing a new phone?
2841 2011-07-13 20:26:19 sgornick has joined
2842 2011-07-13 20:26:45 <BlueMatt> jrmithdobbs: not official yet...
2843 2011-07-13 20:27:03 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: right but i don't see any rumor sites or anything talking about it either
2844 2011-07-13 20:27:06 <BlueMatt> but the amount of rumors appear to be fairly reliable that it will come out some time later this yet
2845 2011-07-13 20:27:08 <BlueMatt> ar
2846 2011-07-13 20:27:18 <BlueMatt> http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/15/exclusive-google-nexus-4g-detailed-720p-display-4g-lte-android-4-0/
2847 2011-07-13 20:28:18 Guest95771 is now known as BTCTrader_
2848 2011-07-13 20:29:00 <jrmithdobbs> no word on yes/no on sdcard :(
2849 2011-07-13 20:29:07 <BlueMatt> probably will
2850 2011-07-13 20:30:36 <jrmithdobbs> ya i'm probably just going to go iphone and jailbreak for free tethering. it's the only thing i can do with android that iphone os 5 wont do out of the box so w/e
2851 2011-07-13 20:31:09 <BlueMatt> meh, I got so tired of the iphone...
2852 2011-07-13 20:31:18 <BlueMatt> had to jailbreak just to do anything useful
2853 2011-07-13 20:31:52 Beccara_ has joined
2854 2011-07-13 20:32:01 copumpkin is now known as cowworker
2855 2011-07-13 20:32:21 <jrmithdobbs> eh, they're copying the notification system (which was one of my biggest complaints) and adding wifi itunes syncing (icloud/mobileme rename 10) which was my other big complaint (and i can do on android, and have been able to for over a year)
2856 2011-07-13 20:32:39 <jrmithdobbs> only thing missing at that point is openvpn support which i don't use often enough to matter anyways
2857 2011-07-13 20:32:51 <BlueMatt> maybe, but you never know what kind of crazy stuff is in android 4,9
2858 2011-07-13 20:32:53 <BlueMatt> 4.0
2859 2011-07-13 20:33:33 <jrmithdobbs> don't really care, either, since it's looking more and more like google has no intention of opening it back up
2860 2011-07-13 20:34:11 <BlueMatt> opening it back up?
2861 2011-07-13 20:34:34 <jrmithdobbs> and if i'm going to use a closed platform i might as well use the closed platform that i don't have to install 3rd party firmwares to actually *access* the interesting new features of the newer android versions
2862 2011-07-13 20:34:38 <jrmithdobbs> (aka, cyanogenmod)
2863 2011-07-13 20:34:41 <dikidera> i was thinking of looking at amd's adl library
2864 2011-07-13 20:34:43 Titeuf_87 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2865 2011-07-13 20:34:46 <dikidera> to see how to monitor temps
2866 2011-07-13 20:34:54 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: you been living in a cave? 3.x has been closed all along
2867 2011-07-13 20:35:07 yellowhat has joined
2868 2011-07-13 20:35:09 <BlueMatt> not really sure what you mean closed...
2869 2011-07-13 20:35:13 <dikidera> and create a program which is actually a server and view the temps by visiting the pc's ip and a port
2870 2011-07-13 20:35:16 <dikidera> via a web browser
2871 2011-07-13 20:35:20 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: they keep saying "next release" then came 3.1 and they said "next release" and then came 3.2 and now they're saying "next release again"
2872 2011-07-13 20:35:30 <BlueMatt> you mean to oss it?
2873 2011-07-13 20:35:39 JRWR has joined
2874 2011-07-13 20:35:45 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: um, full honeycomb sources are not available on AOSP like all previous versions
2875 2011-07-13 20:36:00 <TD> the next release has always meant ice cream sandwich
2876 2011-07-13 20:36:08 <BlueMatt> ok, so?
2877 2011-07-13 20:36:10 <jrmithdobbs> they should say that then
2878 2011-07-13 20:36:14 <TD> i think it was said
2879 2011-07-13 20:36:19 <jrmithdobbs> when?
2880 2011-07-13 20:36:28 <jrmithdobbs> never was in any of the press i read
2881 2011-07-13 20:37:17 <TD> http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2011/04/i-think-im-having-gene-amdahl-moment.html
2882 2011-07-13 20:37:22 josephholsten has joined
2883 2011-07-13 20:37:23 josephholsten has quit (Excess Flood)
2884 2011-07-13 20:37:24 <TD> "As I write this the Android team is still hard at work to bring all the new Honeycomb features to phones. As soon as this work is completed, weâll publish the code."
2885 2011-07-13 20:37:25 <BlueMatt> still the lack of it being oss isnt a huge deal if its a generally better os
2886 2011-07-13 20:37:29 <BlueMatt> its not like the competition is either
2887 2011-07-13 20:37:33 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: it's not though
2888 2011-07-13 20:37:55 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2889 2011-07-13 20:37:56 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: right now the major difference is the notification system
2890 2011-07-13 20:38:02 <BlueMatt> compared to iphone, hell yes it is
2891 2011-07-13 20:38:04 <jrmithdobbs> BlueMatt: which iphone os 5 fixes
2892 2011-07-13 20:38:06 cowworker is now known as copumpkin
2893 2011-07-13 20:38:08 <BlueMatt> sooo much more useable...
2894 2011-07-13 20:38:15 <BlueMatt> widgets?
2895 2011-07-13 20:38:25 <jrmithdobbs> widgets are the opposite of usable
2896 2011-07-13 20:38:36 spm_Draget has joined
2897 2011-07-13 20:38:41 <BlueMatt> quite the opposite
2898 2011-07-13 20:38:49 <BlueMatt> I jbed my iphone to get such things
2899 2011-07-13 20:38:55 <BlueMatt> and sbsettings
2900 2011-07-13 20:38:57 josephholsten has joined
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2902 2011-07-13 20:39:03 <gmaxwell> Ripple has been brought up a few times in here before... looks like someone on the forum has managed to reinvent it and propose it as a tool for fast bitcoin txn verification. I think thats a really nice idea (better than ripple by itself), http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=28565
2903 2011-07-13 20:39:05 <jrmithdobbs> i didn't and wont miss them
2904 2011-07-13 20:39:08 <BlueMatt> you cant do any kind of customization on iphone
2905 2011-07-13 20:39:26 <Blitzboom> do testnet coins have the same generation curve as BTC?
2906 2011-07-13 20:39:34 <jrmithdobbs> i don't need customization, i need a working device i don't feel like throwing against the wall at least 3 times a week
2907 2011-07-13 20:39:48 <Blitzboom> (in theory, i know itâs being reset)
2908 2011-07-13 20:39:55 <jrmithdobbs> and when i do throw it against the wall i want something with build quality to prevent that from destroying it ;p
2909 2011-07-13 20:40:16 fnord0 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2910 2011-07-13 20:40:25 <gmaxwell> Blitzboom: yes.
2911 2011-07-13 20:40:36 <unclemantis> anyone know how long it takes from mtgox usd withdrawl request to their dwolla account? Hours? Days?
2912 2011-07-13 20:40:46 <gmaxwell> Blitzboom: though it will almost certantly never live long enough to hit the first bend in the rate.
2913 2011-07-13 20:40:59 <Blitzboom> yup
2914 2011-07-13 20:41:12 ahihi2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2915 2011-07-13 20:41:22 <unclemantis> The webpage at https://www.mtgox.com/ might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.
2916 2011-07-13 20:41:39 AStove has quit ()
2917 2011-07-13 20:41:40 <unclemantis> man i love that website. this is the LAST TIME i deal with MtGox. I am sticking with TraderHill from now on
2918 2011-07-13 20:41:42 nus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2919 2011-07-13 20:42:04 <jrmithdobbs> TD: that says honeycomb when it's ready nowhere does it say ics
2920 2011-07-13 20:42:17 amiller has joined
2921 2011-07-13 20:42:26 <TD> no. it says "when the features of honeycomb are brought to phones"
2922 2011-07-13 20:42:32 <TD> there hasn't been any major phone release since honeycomb
2923 2011-07-13 20:42:44 <TD> so that condition obviously can't be true yet
2924 2011-07-13 20:43:17 <jrmithdobbs> i'll believe it when i see the code
2925 2011-07-13 20:43:41 <TD> ok
2926 2011-07-13 20:44:05 nus has joined
2927 2011-07-13 20:45:03 <jrmithdobbs> considering how ugly some of the existing code *is* I don't buy the "it isn't ready to be seen" argument or they wouldn't be shipping it on tablets
2928 2011-07-13 20:45:09 <BlueMatt> why cant they release the next nexus this month...
2929 2011-07-13 20:45:48 ahihi2 has joined
2930 2011-07-13 20:46:19 <TD> it's not about "not ready to be seen". the issue is that some OEMs (ie the cheap ones) would try and cram it onto phones in some half-assed way. the ui wasn't even fitting on phone screens when honeycomb was released. it's a part of the brand/open source balancing act
2931 2011-07-13 20:48:08 Pinion has joined
2932 2011-07-13 20:48:11 wasabi3 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2933 2011-07-13 20:48:28 <jrmithdobbs> they said not ready to be seen ("they" being whoever it was that gave the honeycomb reveal speech, i forget)
2934 2011-07-13 20:48:28 wasabi2 has joined
2935 2011-07-13 20:49:07 <BlueMatt> no, what TD just said is exactly what all the reports said when it was released
2936 2011-07-13 20:49:30 <jrmithdobbs> in the speech he said it wasn't ready to be seen, i distinctly remember watching said speech
2937 2011-07-13 20:49:57 <BlueMatt> the conference might not have said it, but the reports all said it so it was made clear
2938 2011-07-13 20:50:38 * TD shrugs
2939 2011-07-13 20:50:39 <TD> whatever
2940 2011-07-13 20:50:56 <TD> let me know when there's a nice android wallet for the iphone
2941 2011-07-13 20:51:02 <jrmithdobbs> "the primary source nevr said it publically so the secondary sources must have gotten it right" <-- that's what you're saying and it makes no sense
2942 2011-07-13 20:51:31 <BlueMatt> no, Im saying google reps said it after the press conference
2943 2011-07-13 20:51:36 <BlueMatt> not in the press conference
2944 2011-07-13 20:52:11 earthmeLon has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2945 2011-07-13 20:52:57 <wardearia> tcatm, What is your response to http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=28496.msg359993#msg359993 in regards to delisting Britcoin/Intersango for "absurd data?"
2946 2011-07-13 20:52:59 fnord0 has joined
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2950 2011-07-13 20:55:18 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: hearn@google.com * r143 /trunk/src/com/google/bitcoin/core/Peer.java: Quick hack to not crash when connected to a node that has less of the chain than we do. Real fix must wait for PeerGroup to land. Resolves issue 44. http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r143/
2951 2011-07-13 20:55:27 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2952 2011-07-13 20:56:15 <tcatm> wardearia: 1523810004.9300 fits in 10.8
2953 2011-07-13 20:58:07 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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2964 2011-07-13 21:08:38 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
2965 2011-07-13 21:08:50 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: can you pm me the ip of your accept-many-connections peer for testing really quick?
2966 2011-07-13 21:08:59 Pinion has quit (Quit: Has quit)
2967 2011-07-13 21:09:16 <BlueMatt> my node's connections are full after having my ip reset only 15 minutes ago...
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2980 2011-07-13 21:17:05 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: ping
2981 2011-07-13 21:18:50 alfakini has left ()
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2986 2011-07-13 21:22:01 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: pong
2987 2011-07-13 21:22:40 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: oh okay
2988 2011-07-13 21:22:48 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: Im assuming the ip hasnt changed (I found it)
2989 2011-07-13 21:23:17 <gmaxwell> Yea, hasn't changed.
2990 2011-07-13 21:23:36 ThomasV has joined
2991 2011-07-13 21:23:47 <gmaxwell> hm. unmodified bitcoin filling up fast. Interesting.
2992 2011-07-13 21:24:31 <BlueMatt> yea, mine got clobbered in 15 minutes after ip reset
2993 2011-07-13 21:24:35 <BlueMatt> 150 connections in 15 minutes...
2994 2011-07-13 21:26:04 <jrmithdobbs> my node's sitting at 99 connections and hasn't been restarted in quite a while
2995 2011-07-13 21:26:07 <jrmithdobbs> something weird going on?
2996 2011-07-13 21:26:33 <jrmithdobbs> (that's abnormally high)
2997 2011-07-13 21:26:43 <jrmithdobbs> not modified to be in multiple irc channels or anything crazy
2998 2011-07-13 21:27:27 <BlueMatt> maybe ddos going on
2999 2011-07-13 21:29:11 <MrSam> "connections" : 8,
3000 2011-07-13 21:29:15 <MrSam> does this mean that i suck ?
3001 2011-07-13 21:29:24 <jrmithdobbs> that means that inbound connections are blocked
3002 2011-07-13 21:29:27 <jrmithdobbs> and yes, you suck
3003 2011-07-13 21:29:28 <MrSam> :P
3004 2011-07-13 21:29:51 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,blocks
3005 2011-07-13 21:29:52 <gribble> 136147
3006 2011-07-13 21:29:58 <MrSam> "blocks" : 129345,
3007 2011-07-13 21:30:03 <MrSam> this is taking ages
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3020 2011-07-13 21:39:46 <b4epoche> damn it, can I block nodes with "dialin" in their domain name? xxx.xxx.psu.edu:56339->pd4b8818c.dip.t-dialin.net:8333
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3022 2011-07-13 21:41:08 <BlueMatt> t-dialin is a huge percent of germany
3023 2011-07-13 21:41:24 <BlueMatt> its pppoe from t-home aka deutsche telekom
3024 2011-07-13 21:41:37 f33x has joined
3025 2011-07-13 21:41:49 <b4epoche> speed?
3026 2011-07-13 21:42:04 <b4epoche> 56kbaud?
3027 2011-07-13 21:42:29 <BlueMatt> no up to 16mbps
3028 2011-07-13 21:42:30 <BlueMatt> no, more
3029 2011-07-13 21:43:07 <b4epoche> okay, that's good⦠just recycling DNs?
3030 2011-07-13 21:43:11 <BlueMatt> its pppoe aka dsl
3031 2011-07-13 21:43:37 <BlueMatt> I dont think they do, I think each client gets a domain name
3032 2011-07-13 21:43:49 Breign has quit ()
3033 2011-07-13 21:44:18 <BlueMatt> though keep in mind everyone's ip changes every 24 hours after pppoe reset
3034 2011-07-13 21:44:29 <BlueMatt> which gets ridiculously annoying
3035 2011-07-13 21:44:46 <jgarzik> some dns blocklists (intended for email server use) list all known home-dialup or home-broadband IPs
3036 2011-07-13 21:45:11 <BlueMatt> they do up to 50mbps I think
3037 2011-07-13 21:45:13 E-sense has joined
3038 2011-07-13 21:45:23 <jgarzik> it's really effective for blocking lots of spam, even if you wind up blocking valid email from superusers (linux users) who run their own SMTP servers
3039 2011-07-13 21:45:24 <b4epoche> so, dialin has a different meaning in DE?
3040 2011-07-13 21:45:37 <BlueMatt> no, dsl is dialin
3041 2011-07-13 21:45:41 <b4epoche> i.e. over phone line, but not dialup
3042 2011-07-13 21:45:41 <BlueMatt> its pppoe dialin
3043 2011-07-13 21:45:54 <BlueMatt> no, t-dialin is over the phone line its dsl
3044 2011-07-13 21:45:58 <b4epoche> you have to call a phone number?
3045 2011-07-13 21:46:04 <BlueMatt> no, but its over the phone line
3046 2011-07-13 21:46:08 <BlueMatt> dsl is over the phone line
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3049 2011-07-13 21:46:32 <b4epoche> yes, that's what I mean⦠dialin is over phone line, but dialup is call a phone number
3050 2011-07-13 21:46:50 <BlueMatt> no, its dialin
3051 2011-07-13 21:46:55 <BlueMatt> same meaning here
3052 2011-07-13 21:47:05 <b4epoche> I read 'dialin' and think dial a phone number
3053 2011-07-13 21:47:22 <BlueMatt> true...but its ppp and all ppp can be classified as dialin
3054 2011-07-13 21:47:28 <BlueMatt> (ish)
3055 2011-07-13 21:47:33 glitch-mod has joined
3056 2011-07-13 21:47:43 <BlueMatt> well thats what the config files all seem to think ;)
3057 2011-07-13 21:48:08 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: yea, I have to pay for a mail redirection thing to send email...
3058 2011-07-13 21:48:30 b4epoche is now known as b4_going_home
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3062 2011-07-13 21:48:56 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i hate when people use DNS black lists
3063 2011-07-13 21:48:59 <phantomcircuit> shits so annoying
3064 2011-07-13 21:49:14 <BlueMatt> rollernet.us works really damn well, and its really simple
3065 2011-07-13 21:49:18 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: <shrug> from ISP perspective it is highly effective
3066 2011-07-13 21:49:19 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
3067 2011-07-13 21:49:47 <BlueMatt> I was pissed when google started it, gmail didnt do that for a really long time, but they turned it on some time in the past year
3068 2011-07-13 21:49:51 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, fortunately most ATT DSL ips aren't black listed since you have to explicitly call and ask for outbound smtp to be unblocked
3069 2011-07-13 21:50:01 <jgarzik> I really wish ISPs would just cut off IPs from the Internet, if caught spamming
3070 2011-07-13 21:50:08 <jgarzik> their owners would clean up their malware really quickly
3071 2011-07-13 21:50:14 <BlueMatt> yea
3072 2011-07-13 21:50:39 <BlueMatt> all malware-infected people should be
3073 2011-07-13 21:50:43 germanMNY has joined
3074 2011-07-13 21:50:48 <BlueMatt> aka all windows users
3075 2011-07-13 21:58:48 vrs has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3076 2011-07-13 21:59:06 <Blitzboom> aka 90% of the internet
3077 2011-07-13 21:59:49 <BlueMatt> yep
3078 2011-07-13 21:59:55 <BlueMatt> if you use windows, you shouldnt be on the internet
3079 2011-07-13 22:00:15 <Blitzboom> i disagree
3080 2011-07-13 22:00:20 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,blocks
3081 2011-07-13 22:00:22 <gribble> 136150
3082 2011-07-13 22:00:45 <Blitzboom> you can use windows and not suffer from any malware if you just donât click every shit
3083 2011-07-13 22:00:51 <BlueMatt> well ok, if you have windows and no av, you shouldnt be on the internet
3084 2011-07-13 22:01:12 <BlueMatt> isps should put a virus in your pages and if you get it, you get disconnected for being a dumbass
3085 2011-07-13 22:01:22 <BlueMatt> like a really old flash exploit or something
3086 2011-07-13 22:03:25 <gim> pull/388 on git hub gives 404, wth?
3087 2011-07-13 22:03:26 <jrmithdobbs> i've never had a problem with malware on windows
3088 2011-07-13 22:03:28 <jrmithdobbs> tbqh
3089 2011-07-13 22:03:35 <jrmithdobbs> on *my* machines, i mean
3090 2011-07-13 22:05:58 <jrmithdobbs> so since upnp is on by default now what's the option to turn it off?
3091 2011-07-13 22:06:09 traviscj has joined
3092 2011-07-13 22:06:11 <JFK911> A+ jrmithdobbs
3093 2011-07-13 22:06:12 <IO-> -dick
3094 2011-07-13 22:06:21 <JFK911> windows works great when you don't drive it like you're drunk!
3095 2011-07-13 22:06:32 <jrmithdobbs> i wouldn't say great
3096 2011-07-13 22:06:54 <IO-> he's right tho, i haven't ever had a windows virus btu i clean them up all the time
3097 2011-07-13 22:07:12 <IO-> and they always have 13 IE toolbars
3098 2011-07-13 22:08:09 <Joric> how to list addresses via rpc?
3099 2011-07-13 22:08:36 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3100 2011-07-13 22:08:51 <Joric> i'm trying to view my namecoind addresses
3101 2011-07-13 22:09:03 B0g4r7_ has joined
3102 2011-07-13 22:09:53 wardearia has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number)
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3104 2011-07-13 22:11:02 <gim> that stuff should be merged https://github.com/patvarilly/bitcoin/commit/cd37f4c3f2ef64e12572272ad32c4e4134508791
3105 2011-07-13 22:11:23 <gim> i got a huge number of disconnection before all the AddAdresses were finnished
3106 2011-07-13 22:11:57 <gim> now i'm up to date wrt Addresses connexions are stable
3107 2011-07-13 22:12:13 B0g4r7 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3108 2011-07-13 22:12:14 B0g4r7_ is now known as B0g4r7
3109 2011-07-13 22:12:23 <gim> dunno why the pull request disapeared from github
3110 2011-07-13 22:12:25 <BlueMatt> it will be
3111 2011-07-13 22:12:30 <BlueMatt> oh, it did?
3112 2011-07-13 22:12:37 <gim> 404
3113 2011-07-13 22:12:37 <BlueMatt> I thought it was pulled
3114 2011-07-13 22:12:45 <BlueMatt> 404 doesnt mean closed...
3115 2011-07-13 22:12:53 <gim> yes 404 is strange
3116 2011-07-13 22:13:05 wardearia has joined
3117 2011-07-13 22:13:22 b4epoche has joined
3118 2011-07-13 22:13:44 <gim> that commit was the old one (before tab -> space conversion)
3119 2011-07-13 22:13:45 <jrmithdobbs> 404 means deleted
3120 2011-07-13 22:13:55 <BlueMatt> you cant delete a pull req on github
3121 2011-07-13 22:14:00 <gim> can't find the ref to the new one
3122 2011-07-13 22:14:20 wardearia has quit (Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number)
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3129 2011-07-13 22:18:32 <marvin__> ;;bc,stats
3130 2011-07-13 22:18:34 <gribble> Current Blocks: 136150 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 937 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 3 hours, 3 minutes, and 25 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1659938.08690295
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3144 2011-07-13 22:35:25 <gmaxwell> 14:47 <@BlueMatt> all malware-infected people should be
3145 2011-07-13 22:35:38 <gmaxwell> ^ really fantastic when they misidentify bitcoin as malware!
3146 2011-07-13 22:35:54 <BlueMatt> lol
3147 2011-07-13 22:35:55 noagendamarket has joined
3148 2011-07-13 22:36:00 <BlueMatt> it was a joke to begin with...
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3151 2011-07-13 22:39:09 <gmaxwell> llkkk
3152 2011-07-13 22:39:12 <gmaxwell> oops
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3193 2011-07-13 23:37:52 <jjjx> Hey guys, what's new in the world of bitcoin-dev? :-)
3194 2011-07-13 23:39:06 <BlueMatt> wallet encryption :)
3195 2011-07-13 23:39:19 <jjjx> Ah, very good!
3196 2011-07-13 23:39:38 falafell has joined
3197 2011-07-13 23:39:40 <moa7> so what does it look like for the user?
3198 2011-07-13 23:39:58 <moa7> passwords, keys?
3199 2011-07-13 23:40:03 <BlueMatt> passphrase
3200 2011-07-13 23:40:11 <moa7> just one?
3201 2011-07-13 23:40:20 <BlueMatt> yea
3202 2011-07-13 23:40:23 <moa7> per wallet
3203 2011-07-13 23:40:27 <BlueMatt> yea
3204 2011-07-13 23:40:44 <moa7> and what is encryption?
3205 2011-07-13 23:41:01 <jjjx> Hmmm :-)
3206 2011-07-13 23:41:25 <moa7> maybe a link to relevant discusion/forum thread will be better
3207 2011-07-13 23:41:47 <moa7> didn't track which one was the production
3208 2011-07-13 23:42:21 <nanotube> iirc it encrypts the privkeys with aes256
3209 2011-07-13 23:42:39 <WakiMiko_> it encrypts with double rot13
3210 2011-07-13 23:42:42 slux has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3211 2011-07-13 23:42:43 jjjx has quit (Quit: leaving)
3212 2011-07-13 23:42:48 <moa7> keys or the whole wallet.dat file?
3213 2011-07-13 23:42:49 <D0han> WakiMiko_: sounds legit
3214 2011-07-13 23:42:49 <D0han> ;D
3215 2011-07-13 23:42:54 <BlueMatt> no, this new encryption I invented rot14
3216 2011-07-13 23:43:25 Lexa has joined
3217 2011-07-13 23:43:31 <moa7> okay so nothing serious yet then?
3218 2011-07-13 23:43:50 <BlueMatt> no, keys are encrypted with aes256-cbc merged yesterday
3219 2011-07-13 23:44:02 <BlueMatt> random private key, public key hashes as IVs
3220 2011-07-13 23:44:05 <WakiMiko_> the real encryption is serious, i was just joking
3221 2011-07-13 23:44:12 moa7 has left ()
3222 2011-07-13 23:44:27 <BlueMatt> private key is crypted with aes-256-cbc with key derivation sha512
3223 2011-07-13 23:45:10 <D0han> anyone checked that encryption against bitcoin mining rig? lets say ~200mhash/s? crackable in hours?
3224 2011-07-13 23:45:21 <BlueMatt> rounds changes based on cpu speed
3225 2011-07-13 23:45:28 <BlueMatt> but sanity says there is no way in hell
3226 2011-07-13 23:45:44 <D0han> im talking about GPU
3227 2011-07-13 23:45:54 <BlueMatt> yes, so am i
3228 2011-07-13 23:45:59 <BlueMatt> but rounds changes based on cpu speed
3229 2011-07-13 23:47:22 <BlueMatt> basic sanity says any passphrase >6 chars will be crackable in...way too long
3230 2011-07-13 23:47:55 <D0han> for now
3231 2011-07-13 23:48:05 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
3232 2011-07-13 23:48:06 <BlueMatt> so use a longer passphrase?
3233 2011-07-13 23:48:12 <wasabi2> This is a dumb conversation.
3234 2011-07-13 23:48:32 <D0han> i know, im just bored ;p
3235 2011-07-13 23:49:28 ThomasV has joined
3236 2011-07-13 23:50:01 <BlueMatt> to check each round, you have to do sha512 rounds, aes256cbc decrypt of the master key, decrypt of one public key with that master key, and then ecdsa key derivation
3237 2011-07-13 23:50:03 <BlueMatt> so...
3238 2011-07-13 23:50:14 <BlueMatt> not just sha needs broken
3239 2011-07-13 23:50:26 <D0han> nice chain
3240 2011-07-13 23:55:58 wirehead has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3241 2011-07-13 23:56:10 <BlueMatt> thanks, design was mostly sipa
3242 2011-07-13 23:56:16 b4epoche_ has joined
3243 2011-07-13 23:56:22 <BlueMatt> well, pretty much all sipa
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