1 2011-07-15 00:06:14 theorbtwo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
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   4 2011-07-15 00:10:28 <Zagitta> BlueMatt: Nope, still don't get it... this is what i get for programming in c# i guess
   5 2011-07-15 00:12:36 Strom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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   7 2011-07-15 00:13:56 <sneak> anyone heard from/seen mizerydearia lately?
   8 2011-07-15 00:15:26 <phantomcircuit> yes
   9 2011-07-15 00:15:40 <phantomcircuit> wardearia, ^
  10 2011-07-15 00:20:11 Strom has joined
  11 2011-07-15 00:20:26 <bliket_> http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?action=profile;u=17006;sa=showPosts
  12 2011-07-15 00:20:48 <bliket_> reading this makes me hurt deep in my stomach
  13 2011-07-15 00:23:06 <Zagitta> poor guy
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  15 2011-07-15 00:24:58 <phantomcircuit> key pool bit him in the ass right
  16 2011-07-15 00:25:14 <BlueMatt> shame, was fixed already in git at the time, but it .23 wasnt released till 14 days later...
  17 2011-07-15 00:25:34 <BlueMatt> well maybe it wasnt in git yet, oh well was very soon thereafte
  18 2011-07-15 00:25:34 <BlueMatt> r
  19 2011-07-15 00:26:42 <BlueMatt> ouch was merged on the 7th, written on the 3rd
  20 2011-07-15 00:26:49 <BlueMatt> that guy missed by 2 weeks
  21 2011-07-15 00:29:20 noagendamarket has joined
  22 2011-07-15 00:29:25 <IO-> holy shit
  23 2011-07-15 00:29:28 <IO-> i just read that
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  28 2011-07-15 00:41:41 <b4epoche> he got a new address but that address/privKey wasn't stored in the wallet?
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  32 2011-07-15 00:47:49 <curiositysquared> My bitcoin client has stopped downloading blocks at 129316. Any reasons why this could happen? I'm connected to 8 piers and I've restarted a few times. It just reconnects to the peers but doesn't download any of the newer blocks.
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  51 2011-07-15 01:14:44 <curiositysquared> Question about addresses that expire. I've seen fair mentoin of bitcoin recieving addresses that are only supposed to work for a short period. Often "this address is only good for 6 hours". What happens to bitcoins sent to those addresses after 6 hours? Lost forever? That seems like a poor design choice for businesses to use. If they keep addresses over 6 hours around forever and just refund any btc sent after the address expires th
  52 2011-07-15 01:14:51 <curiositysquared> Just curious what others thoughts on this are.
  53 2011-07-15 01:14:59 Strom has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  54 2011-07-15 01:15:07 <curiositysquared> But I'm going to be afk for a while. Please pm me any responces. Thanks!
  55 2011-07-15 01:15:50 traviscj has joined
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  57 2011-07-15 01:19:51 <gmaxwell> curiositysquared: but where would they refund it to?
  58 2011-07-15 01:20:16 <gmaxwell> The source might have been some random web wallet, and not be connected to any particular account.
  59 2011-07-15 01:20:22 <knotwork> is there info somewhere on how to make a tran sacton that pay multiple recipient addresses?
  60 2011-07-15 01:27:41 glassresistor has joined
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  63 2011-07-15 01:28:18 <bliket_> gmaxwell: what's a reputable vps company?
  64 2011-07-15 01:28:46 mmoya has joined
  65 2011-07-15 01:29:27 <gmaxwell> knotwork: it's just the sendmanyrpc
  66 2011-07-15 01:29:53 <knotwork> ah its in rpc now eh? thanks
  67 2011-07-15 01:30:28 <bliket_> any good vps company?
  68 2011-07-15 01:33:49 shLONG has quit ()
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  70 2011-07-15 01:36:57 <senseles> for what purpose
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  72 2011-07-15 01:38:47 <jgarzik> gmaxwell: how many 0.3.24 nodes out there, today?
  73 2011-07-15 01:38:53 <jgarzik> versus 0.3.23, I suppose
  74 2011-07-15 01:39:57 * jgarzik is curious if there are any 0.3.25 nodes, too
  75 2011-07-15 01:39:59 denisx has joined
  76 2011-07-15 01:41:11 <ewal> ¡ʞɔoןq
  77 2011-07-15 01:41:27 <ewal> nm, wrong channel :)
  78 2011-07-15 01:41:52 minimoose has joined
  79 2011-07-15 01:43:23 <BlueMatt> jgarzik: though I can confirm there are .25 nodes in the wild, I cannot release accurate version counts, so I wont try
  80 2011-07-15 01:50:11 rynx has joined
  81 2011-07-15 01:50:23 <tcatm> jgarzik: 32300: 31% 32100: 24% 32400: 21% 32200: 11% 32002: 5% 31900: 2% 32001: 1%
  82 2011-07-15 01:52:23 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  83 2011-07-15 01:55:43 <jgarzik> pretty decent uptake
  84 2011-07-15 01:55:53 HardDisk_WP has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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  87 2011-07-15 01:59:21 <denisx> and there is even no OSX version of 0.3.24
  88 2011-07-15 01:59:46 <moa7> anybody building using wxwidgets2.9.2 ?
  89 2011-07-15 02:00:18 <gmaxwell> helps that it finally got into the forum header.
  90 2011-07-15 02:01:25 <moa7> at least 1 0.3.25 node here
  91 2011-07-15 02:03:17 <senseles> why would there be a 0.3.25 node?
  92 2011-07-15 02:03:34 <senseles> does it really matter ? with the different versions ?
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  95 2011-07-15 02:04:26 <moa7> senseless: i don't know jgarzik asked
  96 2011-07-15 02:06:02 HardDisk_WP has joined
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  99 2011-07-15 02:07:20 <senseles> i was just curious
 100 2011-07-15 02:08:22 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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 105 2011-07-15 02:12:27 Gonzago has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 106 2011-07-15 02:18:06 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I owe you nothing. kthx.
 107 2011-07-15 02:21:27 ewal has quit (Quit: ewal)
 108 2011-07-15 02:21:34 ewal has joined
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 110 2011-07-15 02:25:35 <jgarzik> denisx: yeah, our OSX buildmaster _and_ our forum overlord are both MIA for many days :(
 111 2011-07-15 02:25:44 <jgarzik> senseles: because 0.3.25 is in git
 112 2011-07-15 02:26:10 <jgarzik> luke-jr: do you have ipv6 split-out in a git branch anywhere?
 113 2011-07-15 02:26:21 <jgarzik> luke-jr: and did you ever test bitcoind + IPv6?  :)
 114 2011-07-15 02:26:25 <luke-jr> jgarzik: the IPv6 branch, still incomplete
 115 2011-07-15 02:26:35 <luke-jr> jgarzik: I got it to the point where IPv4 worked again
 116 2011-07-15 02:26:44 <jgarzik> heh
 117 2011-07-15 02:32:26 abadr has joined
 118 2011-07-15 02:32:47 <luke-jr> jgarzik: funny how BlueMatt immediately jumps to blame me for block chain spam when the spam clearly had the fee set to cover the bitcoind defaults…
 119 2011-07-15 02:33:33 <luke-jr> (but NOT enough to cover Eligius's rules-- I wonder how it got by…)
 120 2011-07-15 02:34:05 <jgarzik> luke-jr: what, you're unaware of the "if <blah>, blame luke-jr" rule?
 121 2011-07-15 02:34:06 <jgarzik> ;-)
 122 2011-07-15 02:34:19 <luke-jr> no, I just knew of "when in doubt, kill luke-jr"
 123 2011-07-15 02:34:23 <luke-jr> but that's n/a here
 124 2011-07-15 02:34:30 <jgarzik> hehehe
 125 2011-07-15 02:34:50 <luke-jr> (mafia-ish games)
 126 2011-07-15 02:35:11 <luke-jr> jgarzik: any interest in supporting X-Roll-Ntime and noncerange in cpuminer? :D
 127 2011-07-15 02:35:45 kika has joined
 128 2011-07-15 02:35:56 <kika> do you guys think its legal for a business to accept anonymous customers?
 129 2011-07-15 02:36:02 <jgarzik> luke-jr: heh...  conman's cgminer is the main fork now
 130 2011-07-15 02:36:15 <luke-jr> cgminer? isn't that OpenCL?
 131 2011-07-15 02:36:22 <jgarzik> kika: depends on the business.  most American businesses accept anonymous customers (read: cash) every day
 132 2011-07-15 02:36:25 <luke-jr> kika: why not?
 133 2011-07-15 02:36:32 <moa7> so with wallet encryption the private key(s) must be decrypted to sign a sendtx right?
 134 2011-07-15 02:36:33 <jgarzik> luke-jr: "c" == cpu, "g" == gpu.  it does both.
 135 2011-07-15 02:36:40 <kika> jgarzik: so you mean cash is anonymous?
 136 2011-07-15 02:36:50 <jgarzik> kika: yes
 137 2011-07-15 02:36:52 <luke-jr> jgarzik: so that means you've passed the torch on that one?
 138 2011-07-15 02:36:54 <jgarzik> moa7: yes
 139 2011-07-15 02:36:59 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: I blamed you, in fact.
 140 2011-07-15 02:37:00 <kika> jgarzik: most of the business that accept cash need a signature to sign up for a contract btw
 141 2011-07-15 02:37:03 <jgarzik> luke-jr: I hope so yes
 142 2011-07-15 02:37:11 <kika> jgarzik: so thats not truly anonymous services
 143 2011-07-15 02:37:12 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: oh well, your problem
 144 2011-07-15 02:37:25 <moa7> at what point does that happen ... in mem. on disk, etc
 145 2011-07-15 02:37:25 <jgarzik> kika: I don't sign a contract with the convenience store, when I pay cash for drinks
 146 2011-07-15 02:37:29 <luke-jr> kika: what contract?
 147 2011-07-15 02:37:38 <jgarzik> kika: I don't sign a contract with wal-mart, when I buy an area rug with cash for my new house
 148 2011-07-15 02:37:45 <kika> luke-jr: like when you sign up with an ISP
 149 2011-07-15 02:37:51 <kika> luke-jr: and pay using cash
 150 2011-07-15 02:38:07 <luke-jr> kika: last ISP I signed up with didn't require a contract
 151 2011-07-15 02:38:07 <phantomcircuit> kika, i have literally never done that
 152 2011-07-15 02:38:10 <jgarzik> moa7: decryption is always memory-only, never on disk
 153 2011-07-15 02:38:10 <kika> jgarzik: wallmart will have you filmed on their cams btw
 154 2011-07-15 02:38:11 <phantomcircuit> in fact i dont think you cant
 155 2011-07-15 02:38:20 <jgarzik> kika: sure.  that's not a contract though.
 156 2011-07-15 02:38:20 <moa7> jgarzik: thnx
 157 2011-07-15 02:38:29 <luke-jr> jgarzik: not even swap?
 158 2011-07-15 02:38:36 <jgarzik> luke-jr: nope.  mlock.
 159 2011-07-15 02:38:39 <kika> jgarzik: but that makes you non anonymous customer
 160 2011-07-15 02:38:54 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, the openssl contexts are mlocked also i presume?
 161 2011-07-15 02:38:57 <phantomcircuit> (hint hint)
 162 2011-07-15 02:38:57 <luke-jr> kika: Bitcoin is no more anonymous than that
 163 2011-07-15 02:39:09 <kika> i think bitcoin is truly anonymous
 164 2011-07-15 02:39:16 <kika> maybe im wrong
 165 2011-07-15 02:39:17 <moa7> jgarzik: any attempt to make sure the decrypted key leaves mem after signing is complete?
 166 2011-07-15 02:39:18 <luke-jr> kika: then you're not thinking straight
 167 2011-07-15 02:39:29 <jgarzik> kika: there are US laws in specific areas that require identity verification, but it is not universal
 168 2011-07-15 02:39:35 <jgarzik> kika: no, bitcoin is not anonymous
 169 2011-07-15 02:39:46 <kika> jgarzik: how come bitcoin is not anonymous?
 170 2011-07-15 02:39:48 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: yep, know about that.  IIRC BlueMatt was going to replace openssl malloc
 171 2011-07-15 02:39:52 <kika> jgarzik: i think its really anonymous
 172 2011-07-15 02:39:57 <jgarzik> kika: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity
 173 2011-07-15 02:40:16 <jgarzik> kika: then you haven't read the wiki or examined the unencrypted protocol
 174 2011-07-15 02:40:30 <kika> jgarzik: ok let me read thats new
 175 2011-07-15 02:40:37 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: went along with you producing your own transaction with >1500 outputs including ones like 0.00000576
 176 2011-07-15 02:40:42 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, replace the malloc? why all of the openssl contexts can be allocated on the stack...
 177 2011-07-15 02:41:37 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: bet my transactions all total far far less than DeepBit in a day
 178 2011-07-15 02:42:17 <gmaxwell> Proportional to mining power? .. Well, perhaps. But that doesn't mean you're not both stupid. :)
 179 2011-07-15 02:42:26 <phantomcircuit> doing it as a single transaction doesn't save very much effort
 180 2011-07-15 02:42:30 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: just saying that covers some of what matters, not 100%.  I'm agreeing with you it's an as-yet-uncovered area :)
 181 2011-07-15 02:42:59 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, well, as a clue gnupg threw out mlock and uses mlockall now
 182 2011-07-15 02:43:14 <jgarzik> yep
 183 2011-07-15 02:43:16 <phantomcircuit> finding all the instances of key leakage is... useless
 184 2011-07-15 02:43:31 gim has quit (Quit: sleep)
 185 2011-07-15 02:43:32 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: in a GUI mlockall quickly runs into process limits
 186 2011-07-15 02:43:33 <gmaxwell> mlockall has fun behaviores when you later run out of mlockable memory.
 187 2011-07-15 02:43:35 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
 188 2011-07-15 02:43:39 <jgarzik> indeed
 189 2011-07-15 02:43:40 <gmaxwell> (boom)
 190 2011-07-15 02:43:48 <phantomcircuit> yes SIGSEGV
 191 2011-07-15 02:43:50 <phantomcircuit> loverly
 192 2011-07-15 02:43:52 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: miners need to be paid
 193 2011-07-15 02:44:14 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: they can't actually spend that 0.00000576 btc most likely.
 194 2011-07-15 02:44:18 <luke-jr> jgarzik: GUI shouldn't ever touch keys ;)
 195 2011-07-15 02:44:32 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: nonsense
 196 2011-07-15 02:44:49 <gmaxwell> process seperation for the wallet backend.
 197 2011-07-15 02:45:13 osmosis has joined
 198 2011-07-15 02:45:16 * luke-jr has been advocating separating wallet from the rest for a long time ☺
 199 2011-07-15 02:45:55 karnac has joined
 200 2011-07-15 02:46:14 abadr has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 201 2011-07-15 02:48:45 <moa7> so after first encryption of a wallet what does it do to the previous unencrypted copy on the disk?
 202 2011-07-15 02:49:00 <jgarzik> moa7: intentionally corrupts it
 203 2011-07-15 02:49:00 <luke-jr> moa7: destroys it. probably insecurely.
 204 2011-07-15 02:49:09 <luke-jr> jgarzik: does it write over w/ random data first? :P
 205 2011-07-15 02:49:09 <jgarzik> yep
 206 2011-07-15 02:49:15 <jgarzik> nope
 207 2011-07-15 02:49:23 <moa7> specifically command, etc
 208 2011-07-15 02:49:34 <luke-jr> moa7: …
 209 2011-07-15 02:49:35 <denisx> this does not work on a COW fs
 210 2011-07-15 02:49:41 <denisx> like ZFS
 211 2011-07-15 02:49:44 <luke-jr> denisx: only so much a userland app can do
 212 2011-07-15 02:49:54 <denisx> thats true
 213 2011-07-15 02:50:05 <denisx> same with SSDs today
 214 2011-07-15 02:50:16 <kika> so its legal to use anonymous coins?
 215 2011-07-15 02:50:16 <luke-jr> jgarzik: happen to know-- does it mark the old keypool as "potentially compromised" and create a new only-encrypted one?
 216 2011-07-15 02:50:24 jjjx has joined
 217 2011-07-15 02:50:28 <luke-jr> kika: cash is anonymous
 218 2011-07-15 02:50:40 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 219 2011-07-15 02:50:44 <luke-jr> bitcoin is not
 220 2011-07-15 02:50:46 <jgarzik> luke-jr: no; corrupts wallet just enough that older versions will refuse to load it
 221 2011-07-15 02:50:47 <jjjx> Wow. A lot of devs working on Bitcoin these days or what?
 222 2011-07-15 02:50:52 <jjjx> I remember when this was a channel of 20 people.
 223 2011-07-15 02:50:54 <jgarzik> jjjx: I wish...
 224 2011-07-15 02:50:58 <gmaxwell> I cry for the world that people seem to automatically assume all kinds of random things that harm no one are illegal. :-/
 225 2011-07-15 02:51:03 <luke-jr> jgarzik: it might be good to get those changed :P
 226 2011-07-15 02:51:19 <jjjx> jgarzik: Spectator sport eh? :-)
 227 2011-07-15 02:51:24 <luke-jr> jjjx: yes, though not all on the Satoshi client
 228 2011-07-15 02:51:57 <moa7> sorry, are my questions not welcome?
 229 2011-07-15 02:52:27 <jgarzik> kika: what are anonymous coins?
 230 2011-07-15 02:52:35 <jgarzik> moa7: your questions are fine
 231 2011-07-15 02:53:09 <kika> jgarzik: anonymous coins would be coins that arent able to be traced back to an identity
 232 2011-07-15 02:53:22 <kika> jgarzik: like the coins of all the initial miners
 233 2011-07-15 02:53:48 <kika> jgarzik: the coinbase tx doesnt identify anyone
 234 2011-07-15 02:54:12 Georgyo_ has joined
 235 2011-07-15 02:54:26 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: What did you think about the dyanmic block size limit stuff? Is there really a reason to allow blocks which are 10x larger than the average?
 236 2011-07-15 02:54:29 <luke-jr> moa7: C software doesn't use commands, they just do things
 237 2011-07-15 02:54:33 <kika> if i generate 50 btc by mining anonymously for example via toor then those 50 btc are truly anonymous
 238 2011-07-15 02:54:37 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: yes
 239 2011-07-15 02:54:37 <jjjx> I've heard wallet encryption is imminent.
 240 2011-07-15 02:54:38 <jjjx> Hey can someone explain to me how the network is able to validate that I own coins -- and still maintain anonymity (supposing I am using Tor or something) -- when I change my sending address to mask it?
 241 2011-07-15 02:54:46 <jjjx> How does the network know that I ever received them in the first place?
 242 2011-07-15 02:55:01 <briareus> bitcoin.pdf
 243 2011-07-15 02:55:04 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: if DeepBit decides to be a PITA and demand 1 BTC fee for everything, right now that won't hurt too much
 244 2011-07-15 02:55:27 <luke-jr> jjjx: you can't change sending addresses
 245 2011-07-15 02:55:31 <moa7> luke-jr : C just does things with the instruction commands IIRC
 246 2011-07-15 02:55:58 <luke-jr> moa7: no, C is high-level, it isn't assembly
 247 2011-07-15 02:56:10 <moa7> you are two layers above where things really get "done"
 248 2011-07-15 02:56:27 <luke-jr> moa7: the point was that there are no "commands"
 249 2011-07-15 02:56:33 <luke-jr> moa7: and if you want source, it's on GitHub
 250 2011-07-15 02:56:42 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: it wouldn't be an issue either using a median operator, unless they have 50% (and perhaps they do) but in that case if they want to be jerks they can just refuse to extend anyone elses blocks.
 251 2011-07-15 02:56:46 <moa7> thnx i knew that.
 252 2011-07-15 02:57:00 <jjjx> luke-jr: Is that right? I thought you could generate an unlimited number of sending/receiving addresses...
 253 2011-07-15 02:57:11 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: median might work, given enough sane logic; it's a slippery slope, though
 254 2011-07-15 02:57:24 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: be sure you modify the mining part to actually not create such blocks, too
 255 2011-07-15 02:57:34 <luke-jr> jjjx: only receiving
 256 2011-07-15 02:58:21 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: also note that those spam transactions paid the *default fee*, but *not* the Eligius fee (which apparently has bugs in actual implementation)
 257 2011-07-15 02:58:31 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: so it could have hit *any* miner
 258 2011-07-15 02:59:49 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: Yea, earlier what I suggested was using N times the median of the last M (dunno good values yet)... And I'd suggested both soft and hard ways to impose the limit. Obviously you'd make the mining code also follow the same rules.
 259 2011-07-15 03:00:11 <luke-jr> M needs to be at least a week. maybe 2
 260 2011-07-15 03:00:34 <luke-jr> but I agree getting rid of the 1 MB max is needed ASAP
 261 2011-07-15 03:00:38 MC-Eeepc has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 262 2011-07-15 03:00:44 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: yea, sorry about that, my brain hadn't caught up with MIN_RELAY_TX_FEE dropping. Though do you have the logic disabled that hikes the fees as the block gets bigger?
 263 2011-07-15 03:01:05 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it *should*, but like I said there's obviously a bug somewhere
 264 2011-07-15 03:01:15 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: Eligius also boosts the fee when outputs look like data
 265 2011-07-15 03:01:29 <jjjx> Am I reading this correctly? Are miners now in a position to be able to demand transaction fees to not fork the chain?
 266 2011-07-15 03:01:33 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: so even if they paid the old 0.01 BTC per KB, Eligius should have still rejected it
 267 2011-07-15 03:01:51 <luke-jr> jjjx: they always were
 268 2011-07-15 03:01:54 <gmaxwell> Well your criteria is that the output is not zero value, right? which kinda sucks because at least zero value ouputs can be pruned.
 269 2011-07-15 03:02:08 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: I prefer not to publish my criteria for spam detection
 270 2011-07-15 03:02:09 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
 271 2011-07-15 03:02:27 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 272 2011-07-15 03:02:30 <luke-jr> and outputs can't be pruned. only transactions can.
 273 2011-07-15 03:02:37 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: So fair enough except for the fact that you happen to hold the prize for some of the crappiest spam mined. :)
 274 2011-07-15 03:02:41 <jjjx> Wow... But what incentive could they have to do it? That forked chain would be worthless, wouldn't it?
 275 2011-07-15 03:02:43 <luke-jr> so as long as there's one output at least 1 Satoshi, it's stuck in there
 276 2011-07-15 03:03:00 <gmaxwell> A 200k block too.. that'll be great for encouraging people to get .24 deployed... ugh.
 277 2011-07-15 03:03:04 <luke-jr> jjjx: who said they had an incentive?
 278 2011-07-15 03:03:18 <luke-jr> jjjx: but DeepBit could fork, and sicne they have 50% of the hashpower, achieve 100% of the rewards
 279 2011-07-15 03:03:32 <jjjx> luke-jr: Are they actually any signs that they might?
 280 2011-07-15 03:03:35 <gmaxwell> hmph. why did my google just switch to german
 281 2011-07-15 03:03:41 <jjjx> gmaxwell: Using Tor?
 282 2011-07-15 03:03:46 <luke-jr> jjjx: afaik Eligius is still getting valid blocks regularly
 283 2011-07-15 03:03:55 <gmaxwell> jjjx: yea, that was the first thing I checked!
 284 2011-07-15 03:04:03 <jjjx> luke-jr: (I don't know what Eligius is)
 285 2011-07-15 03:05:00 <kika> what if i setup a bitcoin ebay ?
 286 2011-07-15 03:06:03 <gmaxwell> luke-jr: well, we don't know how much hash power deepbit has, bitcoin watch claims its about 40%, but that depends on self reports.
 287 2011-07-15 03:08:10 <jjjx> Does Deepbit or its operators show any sign that they might actually do some kind of 'hostile takeover' ?
 288 2011-07-15 03:08:10 Fat-Albert has joined
 289 2011-07-15 03:09:09 <gmaxwell> jjjx: It doesn't really matter, even if they were perfect bonded-against-misdeeds angels someone could compromise their systems.
 290 2011-07-15 03:09:34 <jjjx> I see
 291 2011-07-15 03:09:45 <sacarlson>  so now you have elected a new king and it is Deepbit, we must now all bow our heads to the king
 292 2011-07-15 03:09:52 <jjjx> So the original Bitcoin design never accounted for the possibility of mining pools then?
 293 2011-07-15 03:09:53 <denisx> jjjx: tell the truth, are you on deepbit? ;)
 294 2011-07-15 03:10:05 <jjjx> denisx: No, I don't mine at all.
 295 2011-07-15 03:10:15 <moa7> good side effect of the recession is acceleration of open source projects ... linux distros ubuntu 11.04 and fedora 15 are kick ass compared to old days
 296 2011-07-15 03:10:15 <jjjx> denisx: Just an observer, like everyone else here apparently. :-)
 297 2011-07-15 03:10:52 RenaKunisaki has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 298 2011-07-15 03:11:40 Kiba` has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 299 2011-07-15 03:13:01 <jjjx> moa7: Weren't they always getting better? :-)
 300 2011-07-15 03:13:14 <jjjx> What is Eligius, guys?
 301 2011-07-15 03:13:48 Warlord has joined
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 303 2011-07-15 03:15:35 <luke-jr> kika: BiddingPond?
 304 2011-07-15 03:16:42 <luke-jr> jjjx: Eligius is my pool; http://eligius.st #Eligius
 305 2011-07-15 03:16:52 <jjjx> Ahh...
 306 2011-07-15 03:16:55 <moa7> jjjx: yeah, but right now they almost as good as proprietary stuff, never been that close imo
 307 2011-07-15 03:17:05 <luke-jr> moa7: LOL
 308 2011-07-15 03:17:13 <moa7> reliability, usability
 309 2011-07-15 03:17:20 <kika> luke-jr: i see
 310 2011-07-15 03:17:24 <luke-jr> moa7: they've been better than proprietary garbage for a long time
 311 2011-07-15 03:17:34 <moa7> of course proprietary crap never had the flexibility
 312 2011-07-15 03:17:42 <moa7> depends on your metric
 313 2011-07-15 03:18:21 <moa7> front end stuff was what I was refferring to
 314 2011-07-15 03:18:28 <kika> luke-jr: im more interested in create a bitcoin ad network
 315 2011-07-15 03:18:34 <moa7> how long is it since devs had time to do that stuff on OSS?
 316 2011-07-15 03:18:43 <kika> luke-jr: do you think i can get legal problems by running a bitcoin ad network?
 317 2011-07-15 03:19:29 <jgarzik> jjjx: I don't think satoshi ever counted on mining pools being the dominant network force for bitcoin.  I think satoshi thought / hoped that most people would mine, and mining power would be greatly and widely distributed.
 318 2011-07-15 03:19:31 <moa7> bitcoin is not illegal
 319 2011-07-15 03:19:32 <kika> luke-jr: for example if some of my publishers place ads from my network on their website next to their page that contains copyrighted content from someone else for example youtube
 320 2011-07-15 03:20:03 unclemantis has joined
 321 2011-07-15 03:20:20 Gekz has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
 322 2011-07-15 03:20:31 <unclemantis> i just did a wallet dump, which one is the private key that i would give for the other person to import and get money?
 323 2011-07-15 03:20:51 Gekz has joined
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 325 2011-07-15 03:20:52 Gekz has joined
 326 2011-07-15 03:20:55 <unclemantis> i see addr, reserve, sec and label
 327 2011-07-15 03:21:14 <moa7> jgarzik: but the variance always was going to lead to pooling, in hindsight I suppose ...
 328 2011-07-15 03:21:21 <denisx> maybe satoshi should have made the outcome smaller instead of the difficulty higher
 329 2011-07-15 03:21:27 zapnap has joined
 330 2011-07-15 03:21:35 <jjjx> denisx: That's what I think.
 331 2011-07-15 03:22:21 <moa7> the pools are made up of individual miners in the most part
 332 2011-07-15 03:22:38 <moa7> it is just they are all routing through 1 or few bitcoind nodes
 333 2011-07-15 03:22:47 <jgarzik> yep
 334 2011-07-15 03:23:14 <moa7> so how's that p2p pool solution coming?
 335 2011-07-15 03:23:20 MMavipc has left ()
 336 2011-07-15 03:24:50 <moa7> some kind of preferable pool solution that requires you to have a node up
 337 2011-07-15 03:25:02 spirals has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 338 2011-07-15 03:26:13 <luke-jr> moa7: it's inherently flawed
 339 2011-07-15 03:26:32 Diablo-D3 has joined
 340 2011-07-15 03:26:41 <moa7> luke: what is?
 341 2011-07-15 03:26:53 <luke-jr> moa7: p2p pool
 342 2011-07-15 03:27:16 <unclemantis> with a walletdump, which key is the private key?
 343 2011-07-15 03:28:10 <moa7> maybe, the p2p net is already there, bitcoin, how to pool with others such that you run a node and split proceeds? (and is better than deepbit)
 344 2011-07-15 03:28:13 spirals has joined
 345 2011-07-15 03:30:12 <jgarzik> I trust deepbit's [Tycho] more than a lot of these fly-by-night operators
 346 2011-07-15 03:30:25 <jgarzik> just wish the pool wasn't so big, though.  a single compromise or FSB visit...
 347 2011-07-15 03:30:41 * moa7 shudders
 348 2011-07-15 03:30:51 <unclemantis> "addr": "1JfQJPVKy6fxxxxxxxxxxbzxuEZ88d9Frw", "sec": "5KTXhkuzaBGjq1PQsVxxxxxxxxxxG11SsP6MfmD1HkJc7w6sAuQ" is the public/private key pair?
 349 2011-07-15 03:31:51 rynx has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 350 2011-07-15 03:32:13 <moa7> actually the more it shakes out the more bitcoin is looking like a settlement clearing system like interbank market e.g.
 351 2011-07-15 03:32:52 <denisx> jgarzik: fly-by-night sounds like btcguild ;)
 352 2011-07-15 03:32:56 wardearia has joined
 353 2011-07-15 03:33:13 <moa7> high security, fidelity, integrity
 354 2011-07-15 03:33:48 <moa7> high vol. instantaneous, anonymous transactions processing could be another layer feeding into bitcoin
 355 2011-07-15 03:34:14 <unclemantis> man i just love being ignored. :)
 356 2011-07-15 03:35:00 <moa7> uncle: looks feasible ... without seeing the exact numbers
 357 2011-07-15 03:35:18 <denisx> lolz, there is another pools which simply has copied the pollpidfile patch and gets the last block and not the new one ;)
 358 2011-07-15 03:36:05 <unclemantis> i am looking at the bitbills.com site and I just ran a python script on my wallet, so just wondering if it is pulling out the same keys that would be needed to create my own bitbill
 359 2011-07-15 03:40:59 <moa7> uncle: bitlottos has posted script doing this on forums also, discussion there is probably useful.
 360 2011-07-15 03:41:46 <jgarzik> moa7: RE "settlement clearing system"  <<-- EXACTLY
 361 2011-07-15 03:42:16 ewal has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 362 2011-07-15 03:42:22 <jgarzik> moa7: it is presumed by many that a future bitcoin (if successful) will involve a secondary layer that can handle higher volumes, microtransactions, etc.
 363 2011-07-15 03:42:35 <jgarzik> moa7: bitcoin will be the highly secure lower layer
 364 2011-07-15 03:42:35 <moa7> uncle:  there is this also https://github.com/joric/pywallet
 365 2011-07-15 03:42:59 <moa7> jgarzik: do you think this is what 'satoshi' had in mind?
 366 2011-07-15 03:43:27 <jgarzik> moa7: probably.  satoshi always acknowledged that bitcoin was -not- built for microtransactions
 367 2011-07-15 03:43:32 <moa7> seems convenient given the parlous state of our current interbank clearing system
 368 2011-07-15 03:43:52 ruku56021 has joined
 369 2011-07-15 03:44:05 <moa7> so condensation of mining power is probably not such a big deal in that scenario
 370 2011-07-15 03:44:05 ruku56021 has left ()
 371 2011-07-15 03:45:24 conjre has joined
 372 2011-07-15 03:45:58 conjre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 373 2011-07-15 03:46:11 <kika> jgarzik: coinbase coins are truly anonymous, right?
 374 2011-07-15 03:46:32 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Dawid Spiechowicz master * r494fc9a / locale/pl/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po : added polish wallet encryption messages - http://bit.ly/qKvWZI https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/494fc9a85752f3025b59376e71769ec0ab62b93b
 375 2011-07-15 03:46:33 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Jeff Garzik master * r5b0fc31 / locale/pl/LC_MESSAGES/bitcoin.po : Merge pull request #414 from spiechu/polish-translation ... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5b0fc31b1c3d25039262ae2043474b35c14bd30b
 376 2011-07-15 03:47:02 <jgarzik> kika: no
 377 2011-07-15 03:47:07 <moa7> as an interbank clearing system it is actually rather rapid, compared with 24, 48 hour or over weekend of current systems
 378 2011-07-15 03:47:13 <unclemantis> i am playing around with the public keys and blockexplorer and my balance doesn't match
 379 2011-07-15 03:47:14 <jgarzik> moa7: yep ;-)
 380 2011-07-15 03:47:29 <jgarzik> moa7: way faster than the "legacy" banking systems in use... and IMHO more secure
 381 2011-07-15 03:47:37 <jgarzik> moa7: you would be surprised how -insecure- modern, major banks are
 382 2011-07-15 03:47:56 <kika> jgarzik: why? if i create a random address and login to deepbit using toor and place my random address there as withdrawal address and i withdraw from deepbit my coins earned by mining, then those coins are anonymous i think
 383 2011-07-15 03:47:57 <moa7> have some idea
 384 2011-07-15 03:48:09 <Fat-Albert> citibanks big hack
 385 2011-07-15 03:48:14 <Fat-Albert> doesnt get much bigger
 386 2011-07-15 03:49:46 <unclemantis> so entering a public address alone will not give me the balance of that wallet. that sucks. how do i find out the blance through blockexplorer?
 387 2011-07-15 03:50:13 <moa7> uncle: might find some help here https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24546.msg334053#msg334053
 388 2011-07-15 03:50:24 <unclemantis> appreciated :)
 389 2011-07-15 03:50:42 <moa7> uncle: and here http://www.bitlotto.com/botg0.1.1.tar.gz
 390 2011-07-15 03:51:25 <moa7> uncle: not regards blockexplorer questin
 391 2011-07-15 03:51:46 somuchwin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 392 2011-07-15 03:52:22 somuchwin has joined
 393 2011-07-15 03:52:44 <unclemantis> so i am not getting the private keys by default right now, i need to hack it
 394 2011-07-15 03:52:49 <unclemantis> correct?
 395 2011-07-15 03:54:29 kika has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 396 2011-07-15 03:55:27 sacarlson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 397 2011-07-15 03:55:47 moa7 has left ()
 398 2011-07-15 03:56:41 ewal has joined
 399 2011-07-15 04:04:37 denisx has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 400 2011-07-15 04:04:56 <jgarzik> hum
 401 2011-07-15 04:05:09 <jgarzik> I wonder if I can get a [legal] copy of OSX for free somewhere?
 402 2011-07-15 04:05:12 <jgarzik> to run in a VM
 403 2011-07-15 04:05:41 <Diablo-D3> no
 404 2011-07-15 04:05:43 <Diablo-D3> not only that
 405 2011-07-15 04:05:48 <Diablo-D3> you have to use the server edition
 406 2011-07-15 04:05:52 <IO-> apple doesn't even allow that, i think
 407 2011-07-15 04:06:11 <Fat-Albert> yeah, only if its on an apple machine
 408 2011-07-15 04:06:13 <IO-> but then again, they dont even use product keys for OSX
 409 2011-07-15 04:06:15 <Fat-Albert> gotta drink the koolaid
 410 2011-07-15 04:06:35 <Diablo-D3> IO-: no
 411 2011-07-15 04:06:38 <Diablo-D3> apple ONLY allows that
 412 2011-07-15 04:06:41 <IO-> get an NZB
 413 2011-07-15 04:06:53 <jgarzik> c.f. "legal"
 414 2011-07-15 04:06:56 <Diablo-D3> and it took a LOT of bullshit for the virtualbox guys to actually let apple let them do it officially
 415 2011-07-15 04:07:05 <IO-> then to go the apple store and buy a box
 416 2011-07-15 04:07:15 <Diablo-D3> and the sever edition is like $500 or some shit
 417 2011-07-15 04:07:23 <Diablo-D3> and its nearly identical to normal osx
 418 2011-07-15 04:07:26 Katapult has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 419 2011-07-15 04:07:26 <jgarzik> if it's going to be building bitcoin officially, it damn sure is -not- going to be warez
 420 2011-07-15 04:07:34 <IO-> oh
 421 2011-07-15 04:07:37 <unclemantis> the value in "sec" is 51 characters and they all start with the number 5. I did a wallet dump using joric-pywallet-5452b8f>pywallet.py on my wallet where I am using windows client 0.3.23-beta. Is THIS the priate key or do i need to complile and run sipa's version from https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/220
 422 2011-07-15 04:07:44 ThisDB has left ("Leaving")
 423 2011-07-15 04:08:11 <IO-> better off getting a used apple laptop with OSX and doing it all that way, cheaper then a legal copy of OSX server
 424 2011-07-15 04:08:11 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Test build #9: STILL FAILING in 14 sec: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin-Test/9/
 425 2011-07-15 04:08:11 <BlueMattBot> spiechu: added polish wallet encryption messages
 426 2011-07-15 04:08:17 denisx has joined
 427 2011-07-15 04:08:18 <Zagitta> jgarzik: there are plenty of clean p2p places, just don't use a public tracker and you'll be fine
 428 2011-07-15 04:09:21 wolfspraul has joined
 429 2011-07-15 04:10:03 <jgarzik> Zagitta: no, that's not legal
 430 2011-07-15 04:10:05 <IO-> i wish there was an inexpensive automated HTTP load testing service
 431 2011-07-15 04:10:38 <IO-> anyone know any botnet masters that wanna get paid in BTC for easy work?
 432 2011-07-15 04:10:49 <Zagitta> jgarzik: obviously not, but i thought you were refering to the risk of it being infected
 433 2011-07-15 04:11:14 <jgarzik> No, I was referring to -not- breaking the law.  :)
 434 2011-07-15 04:11:21 <unclemantis> topic is not private keys tonight, that is for sure ;)
 435 2011-07-15 04:12:06 sacarlson has joined
 436 2011-07-15 04:12:06 noagendamarket has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 437 2011-07-15 04:12:25 <Zagitta> jgarzik: technically it's not breaking the law, copy right infringement is a civil offense :)
 438 2011-07-15 04:12:45 <IO-> tell that to the FBI sweeps they did back in 2004
 439 2011-07-15 04:14:33 <Zagitta> IO-: never heard of those, got a link?
 440 2011-07-15 04:15:21 <IO-> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/FBI%27s_covert_%22Operation_Site_Down%22_targets_top_international_warez_and_piracy_sites
 441 2011-07-15 04:15:34 <IO-> there where like ~4 sweeps, lots of arrests
 442 2011-07-15 04:15:39 <IO-> jail time for some
 443 2011-07-15 04:15:52 <IO-> most that got busted got a couple of years of probation
 444 2011-07-15 04:16:12 <IO-> Bushs' henchman Ashcroft was the AG
 445 2011-07-15 04:16:18 <IO-> he was just a grunt for the MPAA/RIAA
 446 2011-07-15 04:16:30 <IO-> i'm trying to remember the other op names
 447 2011-07-15 04:16:51 <IO-> there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fastlink
 448 2011-07-15 04:17:11 * IO- pours a beer on the ground
 449 2011-07-15 04:18:08 <Zagitta> IO-: I'm pretty sure all those were busted for selling the software in one way or another
 450 2011-07-15 04:18:13 <IO-> no
 451 2011-07-15 04:18:26 <IO-> all where siteop's or affils
 452 2011-07-15 04:18:33 <IO-> zero topsites at that
 453 2011-07-15 04:19:01 <Zagitta> IO-: they could have had subscription fees
 454 2011-07-15 04:19:09 <IO-> these guys just ran invite only ftp servers
 455 2011-07-15 04:19:43 <IO-> all scene members in some respect
 456 2011-07-15 04:19:58 <IO-> the warez scene bans you if you sell anything in any way
 457 2011-07-15 04:20:25 <IO-> this was before torrents where popular
 458 2011-07-15 04:20:43 <Zagitta> IO-: hmm okay, turns out i was wrong then... at least about the US law then, in Denmark it's strictly speaking not illigal
 459 2011-07-15 04:20:44 <IO-> back then you had to know someone that knew someone that could get you an account, which was usually a ratio account to start
 460 2011-07-15 04:20:54 <IO-> the US is retarded
 461 2011-07-15 04:21:17 <IO-> here people have gone to jail for harming the MPAA's hypothetical income
 462 2011-07-15 04:21:32 <IO-> but only when republicans where in charge
 463 2011-07-15 04:22:21 <Zagitta> It's mostly just a question about capitalism being flawed because of the human nature
 464 2011-07-15 04:22:44 Katapult has joined
 465 2011-07-15 04:22:50 <Fat-Albert> as is every other human endeavor
 466 2011-07-15 04:23:04 <Fat-Albert> little circular there :P
 467 2011-07-15 04:23:15 <Zagitta> Touché
 468 2011-07-15 04:23:42 <IO-> its more complicated then that here. we have fundament flaws like corps are legal people. lobbyiests give legal bribes. $$$ corps write their own laws for bribed congressmen
 469 2011-07-15 04:23:56 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 470 2011-07-15 04:24:14 <unclemantis> i have confirmed that i have the actual private key and public key pairs with no modifications nessasary
 471 2011-07-15 04:24:19 <IO-> our own currency and national pledge is unconstitutional
 472 2011-07-15 04:24:19 <unclemantis> you may continue
 473 2011-07-15 04:24:50 <Zagitta> IO-: which boils down to human greed aka the flawed nature of mankind :)
 474 2011-07-15 04:25:10 <upb> unclemantis: yeah too bad you censored 7.5 bytes of hte private key instead of 4
 475 2011-07-15 04:25:23 <IO-> if it was simple human greed all other countries would be in the same sad state
 476 2011-07-15 04:25:29 <unclemantis> upb what do you mean?
 477 2011-07-15 04:25:33 <IO-> Denmark is a nice place though, at least compared
 478 2011-07-15 04:25:40 <upb> 7.5 is too much to bruteforce :)
 479 2011-07-15 04:25:44 TheZimm has joined
 480 2011-07-15 04:25:46 <Zagitta> IO-: not all places have the same political system so no
 481 2011-07-15 04:25:47 TheZimm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 482 2011-07-15 04:25:54 <unclemantis> upb :P not stupid :)
 483 2011-07-15 04:26:33 <unclemantis> so if i import ONE private key do i have access to the entire balance?
 484 2011-07-15 04:26:38 <Fat-Albert> is there an official term for wallets that are lost, forgotten, or destroyed?
 485 2011-07-15 04:26:47 <unclemantis> or do i have to import all of them?
 486 2011-07-15 04:26:52 <upb> unclemantis: the entire balance of that address yes
 487 2011-07-15 04:27:03 <unclemantis> of the ADDRESS. OK
 488 2011-07-15 04:27:21 <unclemantis> so then I need to back up all the keys then
 489 2011-07-15 04:27:22 <Zagitta> IO-: Denmark sucks hard in other aspects though... 50% taxes for example and 25% taxes on all goods
 490 2011-07-15 04:27:36 <IO-> wow
 491 2011-07-15 04:27:38 <unclemantis> Fat-Albert same thing that happens to gifts cards
 492 2011-07-15 04:28:01 vorlov has joined
 493 2011-07-15 04:28:17 <IO-> we have about 35% taxes if your not rich and about 10% sales tax where i live. we are also so terribly poor people without health care just die and our education is ranked like 40 of 50
 494 2011-07-15 04:28:17 vorlov has left ()
 495 2011-07-15 04:28:17 <Zagitta> obviously income taxes are dependant on your income but for rich people it's around 50%
 496 2011-07-15 04:29:13 brooss has joined
 497 2011-07-15 04:29:28 <upb> i would imagine the rich people dont take their income as salary :)
 498 2011-07-15 04:29:55 <Zagitta> IO-: there's another aspect to the other end of the scala though, for example how would you feel about having to pay for the bum down the street's healthcare when he does nothing every day but drink?
 499 2011-07-15 04:30:13 AStove has joined
 500 2011-07-15 04:30:13 <IO-> well since I can't afford a proper HTTP stress test i'll IRC from the web farm and piss off a bunch of romanians on IRC
 501 2011-07-15 04:30:14 <IO-> that'll work
 502 2011-07-15 04:30:29 <Zagitta> haha
 503 2011-07-15 04:30:43 <IO-> might ddos my ISP down
 504 2011-07-15 04:31:08 <upb> for stress testing http ab is fine
 505 2011-07-15 04:31:24 <IO-> i have to stress test the LB also though, so i need a ton of remote clients
 506 2011-07-15 04:31:37 <IO-> not just a couple of shells or even 100 shells
 507 2011-07-15 04:31:44 <upb> aha
 508 2011-07-15 04:32:04 <IO-> so - back to pissing off .ro
 509 2011-07-15 04:32:11 <IO-> that's free and effective
 510 2011-07-15 04:32:12 <upb> they would just fill your pipe tho
 511 2011-07-15 04:32:19 <Fat-Albert> unclemantis: whats that?
 512 2011-07-15 04:32:22 <upb> woulnt really test your lb
 513 2011-07-15 04:32:26 <Zagitta> back to topic: this endianess thing is confusing the heck out of me because i for the life of me can't find a way to do it propperly in c#
 514 2011-07-15 04:33:30 <IO-> Abell (a.k.a. "joebob") pled guilty to conspiracy to commit copyright infringement on February 28, 2005. He was sentenced to 15 months in prison, 400 hours of community service and two years probation.[1] The case is 5:04-cr-00681
 515 2011-07-15 04:33:56 <upb> IO-: what about setting one of your boxes infront of the lb and hitting with ab from different ips ?
 516 2011-07-15 04:34:10 <unclemantis> Fat-Albert they just disafreakinpear
 517 2011-07-15 04:34:18 <IO-> ... thats a good idea
 518 2011-07-15 04:34:19 <IO-> wow
 519 2011-07-15 04:34:22 <unclemantis> what happens when you loose a dollar in a fire? same thing
 520 2011-07-15 04:34:30 <IO-> i can alias a whole /24 on it
 521 2011-07-15 04:34:35 <Fat-Albert> right, was wondering if there was a term for it
 522 2011-07-15 04:34:50 <IO-> and i can max the gig eth easy to
 523 2011-07-15 04:34:50 <Fat-Albert> like, stores call loss to theft, etc "spoilage"
 524 2011-07-15 04:36:14 <upb> yep
 525 2011-07-15 04:36:22 <IO-> thanks for the great idea!
 526 2011-07-15 04:36:37 justmoon has joined
 527 2011-07-15 04:36:43 <IO-> ab [ -A auth-username:password ] [ -c concurrency ] [http://]hostname[:port]/path
 528 2011-07-15 04:37:31 <IO-> can't specify source IP though
 529 2011-07-15 04:37:32 <upb> doesnt seem to support binding to specific ips tho
 530 2011-07-15 04:37:47 <upb> have to patch it or find smth else:)
 531 2011-07-15 04:37:56 <IO-> it's always somethin
 532 2011-07-15 04:38:11 x6763 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 533 2011-07-15 04:38:22 <unclemantis> Fat-Albert i would call it LOST
 534 2011-07-15 04:38:22 <IO-> i'm putting a server in front of the LB right now
 535 2011-07-15 04:38:32 <IO-> i'll find somethin
 536 2011-07-15 04:38:38 <IO-> even php+curl if need be
 537 2011-07-15 04:38:42 x6763 has joined
 538 2011-07-15 04:39:05 <upb> maybe jmeter supports it
 539 2011-07-15 04:39:15 <unclemantis> had to do some digging to find the public/private key pair that held the balance of my test wallet! found it though!!!
 540 2011-07-15 04:39:30 <unclemantis> my 0.05000001btc is not lost afterall!
 541 2011-07-15 04:39:50 <Fat-Albert> economists usually have specific terms, so when you're searching and learning about something, it helps knowing the lingo
 542 2011-07-15 04:40:04 <Fat-Albert> and, good - that's 7$ lol
 543 2011-07-15 04:40:11 <Fat-Albert> err, .70, nm
 544 2011-07-15 04:40:30 <unclemantis> .70 is .70
 545 2011-07-15 04:41:00 justmoon has quit (Client Quit)
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 547 2011-07-15 04:46:00 <Zagitta> no wonder this is so confusing
 548 2011-07-15 04:46:03 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 549 2011-07-15 04:47:40 <Zagitta> the endianess of BigInteger is the opposite so i have to convert twice -.-
 550 2011-07-15 04:54:13 <IO-> N=2
 551 2011-07-15 04:54:13 <IO-> while [ "$N" -lt "253" ]
 552 2011-07-15 04:54:13 <IO-> do
 553 2011-07-15 04:54:13 <IO->         echo "Assigning IP 192.168.254.$N"
 554 2011-07-15 04:54:14 <IO->         ifconfig eth1:$N 192.168.254.$N netmask 255.255.255.0
 555 2011-07-15 04:54:14 <IO->         N=$(expr $N + 1)
 556 2011-07-15 04:54:15 <IO-> done
 557 2011-07-15 04:54:16 <IO-> hehe
 558 2011-07-15 04:54:17 <IO-> this'll be fun
 559 2011-07-15 05:02:11 <unclemantis> would be neat to get a public and private key pair ingraved on a bar of silver :) very ironic
 560 2011-07-15 05:02:47 <unclemantis> or have it engraved under my wedding band LOL
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 566 2011-07-15 05:10:00 <BlueMattBot> Project Bitcoin-Sanitytest build #57: SUCCESS in 1 hr 2 min: http://www.bluematt.me/jenkins/job/Bitcoin-Sanitytest/57/
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 600 2011-07-15 05:43:32 * unclemantis just figured out why one should use a new public address for each payment
 601 2011-07-15 05:43:47 <unclemantis> so folks don't know your total balance!
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 605 2011-07-15 05:52:51 <diki> ;;bc,stats
 606 2011-07-15 05:52:53 <gribble> Current Blocks: 136345 | Current Difficulty: 1563027.9961162 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 742 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 19 hours, 12 minutes, and 58 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1649818.06234375
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 615 2011-07-15 06:40:07 <lfm> ls
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 617 2011-07-15 06:41:27 <forrestv> contrib  COPYING  doc  locale  README  README.md  share  src
 618 2011-07-15 06:41:43 <lfm> rm *
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 621 2011-07-15 06:42:14 <lfm> rm -r *
 622 2011-07-15 06:42:48 <forrestv> wtf, you just destroyed my branch i was working on :(
 623 2011-07-15 06:42:55 <lfm> oh sorry
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 626 2011-07-15 06:43:43 <unclemantis> LOL
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 638 2011-07-15 07:17:04 <pixglen> building bitcoind on an amazon micro instance ... painful...
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 642 2011-07-15 07:22:49 <Zagitta> pixglen: just wait untill you have to start downloading the block chain
 643 2011-07-15 07:23:03 <pixglen> *ouch*
 644 2011-07-15 07:23:20 <forrestv> i tried compiling on an NSLU2
 645 2011-07-15 07:23:22 <Zagitta> took 24 hours afaik
 646 2011-07-15 07:23:25 <forrestv> tiny embedded network storage thing
 647 2011-07-15 07:23:29 <pixglen> hey i just wanted somewhere i could put up my exchange API for testing
 648 2011-07-15 07:23:30 <forrestv> took a week
 649 2011-07-15 07:23:43 <Zagitta> holy crap forrestv
 650 2011-07-15 07:23:46 <pixglen> s'pose i could compile on a centos vm and try uploading that
 651 2011-07-15 07:24:03 <Zagitta> pixglen: should be perfectly fine
 652 2011-07-15 07:24:27 <pixglen> hopefully testnet doesn't hv too many blocks in the block chain
 653 2011-07-15 07:24:33 <Zagitta> or change the instance type to the big one for an hour or so
 654 2011-07-15 07:24:45 reQunix has joined
 655 2011-07-15 07:25:23 <pixglen> um, yeah it errors on compiling rpc -- internal error -- so trying -param ggc-min-expand=0 --param ggc-min-heapsize=8192 to keep mem to a minimum, and it's taking a loooooong time
 656 2011-07-15 07:27:05 <Zagitta> forrestv: if i try running my pool software against the "testnet in a box" would that happen to interfer with the H != 0 check? because my share checker keeps erroring at that check although bitcoind accepts it :s
 657 2011-07-15 07:27:24 <forrestv> Zagitta, yep
 658 2011-07-15 07:27:53 <forrestv> Zagitta, the testnet-in-a-box has difficulty .125, which is target 0xffff * 2**211
 659 2011-07-15 07:28:15 <Zagitta> forrestv: aha thanks and whew haha
 660 2011-07-15 07:28:30 <forrestv> H being ... 7
 661 2011-07-15 07:28:57 <forrestv> H <= 7
 662 2011-07-15 07:29:14 <Zagitta> hmm i'm not sure it gives 7 though
 663 2011-07-15 07:29:29 <forrestv> due to byte swapping it might be something else
 664 2011-07-15 07:29:30 <Diablo-D3> you mean almost 7
 665 2011-07-15 07:29:41 Optimo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 666 2011-07-15 07:29:50 nus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 667 2011-07-15 07:30:33 <Zagitta> well on the top of my head remember the last share being H = 3k something
 668 2011-07-15 07:31:24 <Zagitta> easy enough to check, hang on...
 669 2011-07-15 07:32:09 <Zagitta> H = 824326182
 670 2011-07-15 07:32:12 <Zagitta> :<
 671 2011-07-15 07:32:31 tomat has joined
 672 2011-07-15 07:32:34 <Diablo-D3> Zagitta: thats still H == 0
 673 2011-07-15 07:32:41 <Diablo-D3> theres just a few shortened steps in there
 674 2011-07-15 07:33:04 <Zagitta> whut?
 675 2011-07-15 07:33:10 <forrestv> yeah... what?
 676 2011-07-15 07:33:34 <Zagitta> although i think it's the wrong share that was in my ctrl-c cache
 677 2011-07-15 07:34:13 <Diablo-D3> its 0xA41F32E7
 678 2011-07-15 07:34:30 <Diablo-D3> but basically, the final step is something like H += some value, then if H==0
 679 2011-07-15 07:34:36 <Diablo-D3> why bother having the add at all
 680 2011-07-15 07:34:46 Clipse has joined
 681 2011-07-15 07:35:00 <Diablo-D3> just subtract that value from 0, and you get 0xA41F32E7
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 686 2011-07-15 07:37:10 <Zagitta> 1) the other share was already reversed
 687 2011-07-15 07:37:38 <Zagitta> 2) can't say i followed you on all of that Diablo-D3... i don't do the hashing myself
 688 2011-07-15 07:37:57 <Zagitta> 3) this is for pool share checking not miner share checking, just in case you thought otherwise :9
 689 2011-07-15 07:38:15 <Diablo-D3> Zagitta: er
 690 2011-07-15 07:38:24 <Diablo-D3> if its checking it, it still has to solve it
 691 2011-07-15 07:39:11 <Zagitta> well yeah but i since miners already skip some checks i thought you were talking about another shortcut
 692 2011-07-15 07:39:15 <Zagitta> but nvm that
 693 2011-07-15 07:39:38 <Zagitta> i've got another share: 00000001bfb3c18140c1f9aaf35162b0843a0304abedf48fb4a9669f43462b83000000004453a58136f150b4861e02f77c92be7e95e895bd14e5725288bca2b8f3f7a33d4e1fed071d07fff82f02cb4 (lots of 0's here ofc)
 694 2011-07-15 07:39:55 <Zagitta> H = 1799712367 on that one
 695 2011-07-15 07:40:16 <Diablo-D3> uh no
 696 2011-07-15 07:40:23 <Diablo-D3> H is clearly 0 on that
 697 2011-07-15 07:40:47 traviscj has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 698 2011-07-15 07:42:03 <Zagitta> oh well... I guess i'll write some code to grab a few hundred raw blocks from blockexplorer and see if i get H != 0 on any of those
 699 2011-07-15 07:43:19 abadr has quit (Quit: abadr)
 700 2011-07-15 07:49:44 <forrestv> Zagitta, H is the first 32 bits of the hash...
 701 2011-07-15 07:50:01 <forrestv> Zagitta, what language are you using?
 702 2011-07-15 07:50:05 <Zagitta> C#
 703 2011-07-15 07:50:26 <mtrlt> look at the last 32 bits too, in case someone's got it backwards :p
 704 2011-07-15 07:50:28 <forrestv> ah... i have (what i believe is) a really nice python implementation of the bitcoin data structures
 705 2011-07-15 07:50:46 <mtrlt> because it's actually not the first 32 bits, bitcoin just reverts the hash
 706 2011-07-15 07:51:19 <Zagitta> currently i'm converting the last 4 bytes of the hash into an int32 and then checking H != 0
 707 2011-07-15 07:51:50 <mtrlt> have you checked that your hash function works correctly
 708 2011-07-15 07:51:51 <Zagitta> if i check for the first 4 bytes H = 1119614264
 709 2011-07-15 07:51:55 <Zagitta> on the share i posted previously
 710 2011-07-15 07:51:59 <Zagitta> it does
 711 2011-07-15 07:52:03 <Zagitta> i didn't implement it myself
 712 2011-07-15 07:52:11 <Zagitta> it's the .net one
 713 2011-07-15 07:52:29 <forrestv> check some block's hashes against the actual hash (via blockexplorer)
 714 2011-07-15 07:52:33 <mtrlt> did you check it or are you just assuming it works because it's included in the language :P
 715 2011-07-15 07:53:00 <Zagitta> and if i use the block from the example at: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm i end up with the correct hash
 716 2011-07-15 07:53:08 <mtrlt> ah
 717 2011-07-15 07:53:11 <mtrlt> that's good, then :P
 718 2011-07-15 07:53:21 <Zagitta> no shit sherlock ;P
 719 2011-07-15 07:53:28 <mtrlt> yep
 720 2011-07-15 07:54:04 <Zagitta> but yes forrestv, i'm currently writting some small debugging code to download and construct block headers from blockexplorer
 721 2011-07-15 07:54:16 <Zagitta> that i can run through my share checker
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 725 2011-07-15 08:04:15 <Zagitta> forrestv: did you have that python script? (just in case)
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 730 2011-07-15 08:14:23 <forrestv> Zagitta, it's at svn://forre.st/p2pool . to get a block hash, you'd do something like .. p2pool.bitcoin.data.block_header_type.hash256(dict(version=1, previous_block=0x..., merkle_root=0x..., timestamp=..., target=..., nonce=...))
 731 2011-07-15 08:14:27 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 732 2011-07-15 08:15:14 <forrestv> and it'd give you an integer. you could get H by doing that_hash//(2**224)
 733 2011-07-15 08:15:28 <forrestv> or that_hash >> 224 ;P
 734 2011-07-15 08:16:44 <Zagitta> forrestv: thanks :) i'll take a look at it if my code ends up failing at the blocks from blockexplorer :)
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 737 2011-07-15 08:21:09 CheapScotsman has joined
 738 2011-07-15 08:23:31 <CheapScotsman> For mining with two cards in GUIMiner, does one need to set two separate tabs or just one?
 739 2011-07-15 08:23:36 Gonzago has quit ()
 740 2011-07-15 08:23:57 <Zagitta> separate afaik
 741 2011-07-15 08:24:08 <Zagitta> there's a total stats page or something though
 742 2011-07-15 08:24:36 <CheapScotsman> Does that eat up twice as much CPU resources? The windows bug is already eating up 50+% of both my cores
 743 2011-07-15 08:25:04 <Zagitta> go into process manager and set affinity to only one of your cores
 744 2011-07-15 08:25:30 <CheapScotsman> I'm mainly worried about heat issues, as I have an Athlon x2 FX chip that runs hot on idle
 745 2011-07-15 08:25:48 <Zagitta> forrestv: if the nonce is so short for a block that the block header hex isn't 160 chars long you just append 0's on the end right?
 746 2011-07-15 08:26:03 <forrestv> Zagitta, erm
 747 2011-07-15 08:26:15 <forrestv> pack the nonce as a 32 bit little endian integer
 748 2011-07-15 08:26:39 <Zagitta> that's not my problem
 749 2011-07-15 08:26:41 <forrestv> to answer your question, yes
 750 2011-07-15 08:26:50 <Zagitta> look at http://blockexplorer.com/rawblock/000000000000026adebee547717795b0a7fe97070c886694bec73963f781eaf6
 751 2011-07-15 08:27:01 <Zagitta> the nonce is stored as an int
 752 2011-07-15 08:27:06 <mtrlt> little endian uint.
 753 2011-07-15 08:27:13 <mtrlt> 32
 754 2011-07-15 08:27:42 <forrestv> the nonce is 68622458
 755 2011-07-15 08:27:43 <Zagitta> erh that might be the error then
 756 2011-07-15 08:28:21 <mtrlt> which is 0x0417187A, so, 7A181704 in little-endian order.
 757 2011-07-15 08:29:06 <Zagitta> hmm
 758 2011-07-15 08:29:22 <Zagitta> the .net hex converter gives me 417187a
 759 2011-07-15 08:29:30 <mtrlt> well that's what i said?
 760 2011-07-15 08:30:25 <Zagitta> i know the 0 infront is meaningless but i've got a feeling it's what makes my raw string pulled from blockexplorer 1 char too short
 761 2011-07-15 08:30:53 <mtrlt> wat
 762 2011-07-15 08:31:48 <Zagitta> yep that was the problem
 763 2011-07-15 08:31:53 <Zagitta> now H == 0 for that block
 764 2011-07-15 08:32:12 <Zagitta> bloody c#
 765 2011-07-15 08:33:46 <mtrlt> that's why i love C++
 766 2011-07-15 08:33:59 <mtrlt> don't have to convert everything to strings if i want to manipulate binary data
 767 2011-07-15 08:34:44 <Zagitta> well neither do i
 768 2011-07-15 08:34:56 <Zagitta> it's just more of an issue when it comes from a string
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 770 2011-07-15 08:36:14 <mtrlt> i don't understand how you can have that kinda problem :P
 771 2011-07-15 08:36:29 <mtrlt> in the raw block from blockexplorer, the nonce is a decimal number
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 774 2011-07-15 08:36:48 <mtrlt> just read that into a uint32, everything's done :P
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 779 2011-07-15 08:37:04 <Zagitta> the header hex recieved from miners is one long string
 780 2011-07-15 08:37:15 <mtrlt> yea
 781 2011-07-15 08:37:21 <mtrlt> but it's of fixed length
 782 2011-07-15 08:37:33 <Zagitta> yeah yeah that's not an issue
 783 2011-07-15 08:38:02 <Zagitta> first i tried converting it to a byte array directly and then swapping around as required by the whole endianess thing
 784 2011-07-15 08:38:06 Nexus7 has joined
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 786 2011-07-15 08:38:09 <Zagitta> but i never managed to get it working
 787 2011-07-15 08:38:13 <mtrlt> :p
 788 2011-07-15 08:39:03 <Zagitta> so i had to resort to swapping the individual hex parts in the string
 789 2011-07-15 08:39:18 <Zagitta> which is a horrible solution
 790 2011-07-15 08:39:21 <mtrlt> :D
 791 2011-07-15 08:39:37 <Zagitta> but after not having been able to make the other thing work for 3 days straight i just gave up
 792 2011-07-15 08:39:40 <Zagitta> at least for now
 793 2011-07-15 08:40:32 <Zagitta> i've got the hex2bin part done in the fast way though
 794 2011-07-15 08:40:44 <Zagitta> thanks to google that is :p
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 798 2011-07-15 08:45:09 <CheapScotsman> Does running one core at 100% 24/7 cause much risk of failure/overheating?
 799 2011-07-15 08:46:21 <Zagitta> why would the answer be any different from running a gfx at 100% 24/7?
 800 2011-07-15 08:47:03 <Zagitta> as long as you have sufficient cooling there's no need to worry
 801 2011-07-15 08:47:31 <CheapScotsman> Because I know that GPUs burn out quite quickly at 100% fan speed/OCd heavily
 802 2011-07-15 08:47:37 <CheapScotsman> But I am entirely unfamiliar with CPUs
 803 2011-07-15 08:48:06 <Zagitta> a chip is still a chip
 804 2011-07-15 08:48:44 <Zagitta> the only way they're different is how the transistors are arranged
 805 2011-07-15 08:50:20 <midnightmagic> CPUs are a little more resistant to failure imo.
 806 2011-07-15 08:50:24 <Zagitta> also the most of the time the gpu chip itself doesn't die, it's most likely to be one of the other components on the card like the voltage regulators or capasitors
 807 2011-07-15 08:50:30 <midnightmagic> too much important stuff is riding on them.
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 809 2011-07-15 08:50:56 <CheapScotsman> Midnight that certainly seems my experience with GPUs vs CPUs, but then again I know nothing of transistor arrangement.
 810 2011-07-15 08:51:12 <Zagitta> thing is
 811 2011-07-15 08:51:15 <CheapScotsman> I have never had a CPU die on me
 812 2011-07-15 08:51:25 <Zagitta> you rarely throw 200-300 watt through a CPU
 813 2011-07-15 08:52:13 <CheapScotsman> I miss the good old days when OpenCL would use 0% CPU for me....damn windows errors
 814 2011-07-15 08:52:46 <Zagitta> why not just install ubuntu and follow the guides on the forum?
 815 2011-07-15 08:53:03 <midnightmagic> yes, i've personally watched three video cards fry themselves, and in all cases the onboard caps just exploded.
 816 2011-07-15 08:53:33 <midnightmagic> i even took usb microscope pics of one of them, you can see the holes and everything
 817 2011-07-15 08:53:44 <CheapScotsman> Zagitta: I am almost ready to set up my second build which I do intend to use linux with, but for this one it seems too much of a hassle for a week of use.
 818 2011-07-15 08:53:57 <CheapScotsman> Also I use this comp for Word and so on
 819 2011-07-15 08:54:27 <CheapScotsman> midnightmagic: sounds traumatic
 820 2011-07-15 08:55:31 <midnightmagic> they were cheap geforce $40 pieces of crap, i wasn't surprised at all.
 821 2011-07-15 08:55:37 <midnightmagic> least they didn't take out my computer with them
 822 2011-07-15 08:56:08 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
 823 2011-07-15 08:56:13 <CheapScotsman> Yes that is a bonus. I'm currently concerned that my PSU may do that
 824 2011-07-15 08:56:25 <Zagitta> ah yeah i don't have linux on my desktop either but i don on my mining rig
 825 2011-07-15 08:56:47 <CheapScotsman> I just slapped the second card in and between powering two cards and an overloaded CPU my PSU is quite hot to the touch
 826 2011-07-15 08:57:20 <Zagitta> you should check how many amps the 12v line can deliver
 827 2011-07-15 08:58:31 <CheapScotsman> Zag is that on the "output distribution list?"
 828 2011-07-15 08:58:36 Marf has joined
 829 2011-07-15 08:58:40 <CheapScotsman> It's a 700W PSU bbut it is generally known to be a POS
 830 2011-07-15 08:59:22 <Zagitta> erhh i think so
 831 2011-07-15 08:59:54 <Zagitta> not sure what you mean but it usually says on the side of the psu
 832 2011-07-15 09:00:22 <CheapScotsman> It has four listed on that list: Device, CPU1, PCIE1/CPU2, MB Accessory and PCIE-1
 833 2011-07-15 09:00:51 <Zagitta> where are you see that? in software?
 834 2011-07-15 09:00:58 <CheapScotsman> on the side of the PSU
 835 2011-07-15 09:01:04 <Zagitta> o _O
 836 2011-07-15 09:01:18 <CheapScotsman> Ill get a link
 837 2011-07-15 09:02:19 <CheapScotsman> http://ncix.com/products/?sku=39657
 838 2011-07-15 09:03:23 <Zagitta> lol 36 amps on the 3.3V
 839 2011-07-15 09:03:53 <Zagitta> calling that PSU 700W is like calling africa rich
 840 2011-07-15 09:04:35 <Zagitta> anyway what gfx are you running on it? because the 12v has 210W roughly
 841 2011-07-15 09:04:37 <CheapScotsman> Yeah it's a PSU known for burning out, assumably because people think actually is 700w
 842 2011-07-15 09:04:40 <Zagitta> wich isn't very much...
 843 2011-07-15 09:04:49 <CheapScotsman> two 5830s
 844 2011-07-15 09:05:00 <Zagitta> that's pushing it
 845 2011-07-15 09:05:07 <Zagitta> i probably wouldn't risk it
 846 2011-07-15 09:05:09 <CheapScotsman> I figured so based on the amount of heat coming off this thing
 847 2011-07-15 09:05:29 <Zagitta> maybe 1 card
 848 2011-07-15 09:05:37 <CheapScotsman> I have a corsair 850W TX power supply just sitting here...but I was hoping to use that for my new build
 849 2011-07-15 09:05:47 <pixglen> bitcoind finally built and run on an amazon micro instance... lotsa patching, ugh... now d/l blockchain for testnet, looks pretty slow with json rpc
 850 2011-07-15 09:06:21 <Zagitta> you could short 2 pins in the 24pin cord and connect the PCI-e connectors to the two cards
 851 2011-07-15 09:06:32 <Zagitta> (shorting the 2 pins to turn it on)
 852 2011-07-15 09:06:37 <pixglen> e.g. when i call JSON RPC with getinfo, it takes a couple of seconds of thinking b4 it comes back to me
 853 2011-07-15 09:06:52 <Zagitta> yeah i had same problem pixglen
 854 2011-07-15 09:07:01 <pixglen> is that because it is busy d/l the blockchain??
 855 2011-07-15 09:07:03 <Zagitta> it's basically starved for cpu and ram
 856 2011-07-15 09:07:15 <Zagitta> it's because it checks the blocks it downloads
 857 2011-07-15 09:07:26 <CheapScotsman> zagitta: That sounds like ancient Greek to me, but I assume this would lower the wattage load from the cards?
 858 2011-07-15 09:07:27 <Zagitta> there's a mirror somewhere you can use instead
 859 2011-07-15 09:07:29 <Zagitta> much faster
 860 2011-07-15 09:07:48 <pixglen> ah ok, so after it d/l everything it should be a little snappier -- (assuming it doesn't crash first ;-) )
 861 2011-07-15 09:07:54 <Zagitta> CheapScotsman: No you basically run the cards on the second PSU
 862 2011-07-15 09:08:37 <Zagitta> pixglen: http://bitcoin.bluematt.me/bitcoin-nightly/blockchain-nightly/ download the newest and unpack it into you .bitcoin dir
 863 2011-07-15 09:08:38 <pixglen> is the recommendation still to link against Berkeley DB 4.7? the mainline is at least at 5.1 now
 864 2011-07-15 09:09:13 <CheapScotsman> zagitta: ohh, I get you, how do you short two pins?
 865 2011-07-15 09:09:28 <pixglen> Zagitta: actually i'm after -testnet
 866 2011-07-15 09:09:32 davro has joined
 867 2011-07-15 09:09:41 <pixglen> Zagitta: nice thot though
 868 2011-07-15 09:09:51 <Zagitta> CheapScotsman: http://www.overclock.net/faqs/96712-how-jump-start-power-supply-psu.html
 869 2011-07-15 09:10:04 <pixglen> is there a testnet block explorer somewhere?
 870 2011-07-15 09:10:11 <Zagitta> pixglen: ah okay
 871 2011-07-15 09:10:14 <Zagitta> donno
 872 2011-07-15 09:10:32 <Zagitta> http://blockexplorer.com/testnet
 873 2011-07-15 09:10:34 <pixglen> i'm not seriously running bitcoin on a micro instance -- this is just a test
 874 2011-07-15 09:10:52 <Zagitta> well you might have been as stupid as me :p
 875 2011-07-15 09:11:43 <CheapScotsman> zagitta: THanks for the link, though this looks like something I would be liable to screw up and destroy my computer in the process
 876 2011-07-15 09:13:13 <Zagitta> CheapScotman: haha maybe although there isn't much risk in it if you're careful
 877 2011-07-15 09:14:00 ivan has joined
 878 2011-07-15 09:16:24 <Zagitta> pixglen: why did you build bitcoind on the machine though? i just threw the linux binary at it without issues
 879 2011-07-15 09:16:30 <CheapScotsman> Just had a laugh at how this Corsiar PSU comes in a velvet bag.
 880 2011-07-15 09:17:39 <Zagitta> my XFX had two stiff polyester bags with modular cables in it
 881 2011-07-15 09:17:55 <CheapScotsman> I can't help but assume that is $10 of the cost right there
 882 2011-07-15 09:18:03 <Zagitta> lol
 883 2011-07-15 09:18:20 <Zagitta> it's fairly pointless yes
 884 2011-07-15 09:18:33 <Zagitta> i haven't seen many people carry around their PSU's like that
 885 2011-07-15 09:18:45 <CheapScotsman> I kind of hope not, though I can't say I would be surprised
 886 2011-07-15 09:18:52 <CheapScotsman> This is the age of "muscle PCs"
 887 2011-07-15 09:19:44 <CheapScotsman> I also don't have any proper paper clips asides one with rubber coating
 888 2011-07-15 09:20:00 <CheapScotsman> just a lot of staples
 889 2011-07-15 09:20:05 <Zagitta> use a piece of wire then
 890 2011-07-15 09:20:10 <Zagitta> or cable
 891 2011-07-15 09:20:25 <Zagitta> or soldering tin
 892 2011-07-15 09:20:48 <Zagitta> it's just about being creative :p
 893 2011-07-15 09:20:49 <CheapScotsman> Oh you naive man, you assume I have any useful wires or cables on hand
 894 2011-07-15 09:21:10 Fireball has quit (Quit: ROS is the power.)
 895 2011-07-15 09:21:17 <CheapScotsman> I am a perpetual graduate student so I live in a bubble apartment with pre-packaged food and an Ikea tool kit.
 896 2011-07-15 09:21:58 <Zagitta> yeah okay fair enough, there's hardly much space in such an apartment
 897 2011-07-15 09:22:19 <Zagitta> i'm also moving into 32m^2 in september ><
 898 2011-07-15 09:22:28 <CheapScotsman> Well there is space, it's just that apartment living tends to be infantalizing.
 899 2011-07-15 09:22:35 <CheapScotsman> "fix it MYSELF?"
 900 2011-07-15 09:22:49 <Zagitta> lol
 901 2011-07-15 09:24:20 <Zagitta> how about a scissor and tinfoil... do you have that?
 902 2011-07-15 09:25:02 <CheapScotsman> lol I have little bits of tinfoil from dark chocolate wrappers
 903 2011-07-15 09:25:18 <CheapScotsman> a staple must be too short eh?
 904 2011-07-15 09:26:07 <Zagitta> yeah and too thin aswell
 905 2011-07-15 09:26:22 <Zagitta> also how can you NOT have tinfoil?
 906 2011-07-15 09:26:42 <Zagitta> granted i live at home but STILL
 907 2011-07-15 09:27:19 <Zagitta> how about soda cans?
 908 2011-07-15 09:27:19 <CheapScotsman> Living as a student tends to be rather savage
 909 2011-07-15 09:27:34 <CheapScotsman> hah no, actually I don't drink pop
 910 2011-07-15 09:27:48 <CheapScotsman> I have a feeling I will be searching through a dumpster soon
 911 2011-07-15 09:27:55 <Zagitta> haha
 912 2011-07-15 09:28:27 <Zagitta> do you really have nothing lying around that's electrically conductive?
 913 2011-07-15 09:28:34 <JFK911> there's all kinds of good stuff in dumpsters
 914 2011-07-15 09:28:44 <CheapScotsman> You're right Mr JFK
 915 2011-07-15 09:28:54 <CheapScotsman> and no I'm looking now but nothing that is thin and pure metal
 916 2011-07-15 09:29:05 <CheapScotsman> my one paper clip is rubber coated as said
 917 2011-07-15 09:29:06 <JFK911> what are you seeking
 918 2011-07-15 09:29:24 <CheapScotsman> something to conduct electricity with
 919 2011-07-15 09:29:33 <JFK911> for what purpose?
 920 2011-07-15 09:29:49 <CheapScotsman> for using two PSUs with one system
 921 2011-07-15 09:29:57 <JFK911> oh, you need to have one of them on?
 922 2011-07-15 09:29:59 <CheapScotsman> to lower the risk of blowing one PSU to an early grave
 923 2011-07-15 09:30:11 <Zagitta> CheapScotsman: how do you dry your clothes?
 924 2011-07-15 09:30:12 <JFK911> you need to strap the grounds together too
 925 2011-07-15 09:30:19 <CheapScotsman> zagitta: drying machine
 926 2011-07-15 09:30:26 <Zagitta> damnit
 927 2011-07-15 09:30:33 <CheapScotsman> JFK the ground?
 928 2011-07-15 09:30:39 <JFK911> eh the earths
 929 2011-07-15 09:30:48 <CheapScotsman> I still don't know, but I am techy illiterate
 930 2011-07-15 09:30:57 <JFK911> heh
 931 2011-07-15 09:31:04 <JFK911> find an electrician or radio dude
 932 2011-07-15 09:31:04 <Zagitta> JFK, it's recommended but not neccesary
 933 2011-07-15 09:31:38 <CheapScotsman> This is a beautiful PSU though... I would just slap the new one in if I didnt intend on the new build shortly
 934 2011-07-15 09:31:51 <Zagitta> aha i got it!
 935 2011-07-15 09:31:55 <CheapScotsman> yes
 936 2011-07-15 09:31:59 <Zagitta> go grab a fork
 937 2011-07-15 09:31:59 <JFK911> well, all the mains cables should have earth.  but i'd still make sure there is lots of earth conductivity
 938 2011-07-15 09:32:22 <CheapScotsman> I have forks
 939 2011-07-15 09:32:23 <Zagitta> bend two or three of the legs a bit so they don't plug into the other pins
 940 2011-07-15 09:32:39 <Zagitta> tadaa
 941 2011-07-15 09:32:42 <CheapScotsman> Im a little disturbed by this message on the boards though: "The psu should be using 14-16 AWG wire for the 20/24 pin cord, I suggest you use similar sized wire, or you could catch something on fire."
 942 2011-07-15 09:32:55 <JFK911> you need to ground the green wire to make the psu come on right?
 943 2011-07-15 09:33:04 <CheapScotsman> jfk911: Uhh...yes?
 944 2011-07-15 09:33:04 <JFK911> if you have a paperclip you can unlatch the contact from the connector
 945 2011-07-15 09:33:07 <JFK911> and pull the wire out
 946 2011-07-15 09:33:21 <CheapScotsman> no paper clip
 947 2011-07-15 09:33:23 <JFK911> then just hold it to earth under a screw or something
 948 2011-07-15 09:33:29 <JFK911> well, something pointy and small
 949 2011-07-15 09:33:31 sipa has left ()
 950 2011-07-15 09:33:34 <JFK911> hair pin, etc
 951 2011-07-15 09:33:54 <Zagitta> or small screwdriver
 952 2011-07-15 09:34:03 <JFK911> yeah if its thin enough down the shaft
 953 2011-07-15 09:34:09 <Zagitta> i still think my gheto fork is a better idea
 954 2011-07-15 09:34:10 <Zagitta> :P
 955 2011-07-15 09:34:19 <JFK911> hopefully you dont ruin the contact so you can shove it back in, it clicks and is normal again
 956 2011-07-15 09:34:19 <CheapScotsman> This all sounds rather beyond me, I'm thinking I should likely just pull a card out and wait a week
 957 2011-07-15 09:34:26 <CheapScotsman> but I do like more hash..
 958 2011-07-15 09:35:00 <Zagitta> considering weed in denmark is called hash that sounds wrong :p
 959 2011-07-15 09:35:18 <CheapScotsman> mhash, if preferred
 960 2011-07-15 09:35:32 <CheapScotsman> Also, you Danes are so whipped by feminists.
 961 2011-07-15 09:35:36 <CheapScotsman> But that's a slight sidetrack
 962 2011-07-15 09:36:17 <Zagitta> we are?
 963 2011-07-15 09:36:33 <davro> nothing wrong being whipped by feminists!
 964 2011-07-15 09:36:56 <CheapScotsman> zagitta: You are
 965 2011-07-15 09:37:07 <Zagitta> how and why exactly?
 966 2011-07-15 09:37:46 <davro> CheapScotsman: insert logical fallacy
 967 2011-07-15 09:37:50 <CheapScotsman> Because all of you Scandinavian countries have similar gender equality laws which attempt to deny biology and claim men are just like women minus genetailia.
 968 2011-07-15 09:38:16 <CheapScotsman> And, to my knowledge, you have the same prostitution laws as Sweden now, which essentially amount to: "women sell their sex legally, men are punished for buying"
 969 2011-07-15 09:38:22 <CheapScotsman> regardless of circumstance
 970 2011-07-15 09:38:41 <Zagitta> erhh no?
 971 2011-07-15 09:38:45 <davro> CheapScotsman: thats like saying all people from scotland are skag heads !
 972 2011-07-15 09:38:54 <CheapScotsman> davro: And of course they are.
 973 2011-07-15 09:39:05 <CheapScotsman> Zagitta: Not the same case in Denmark?
 974 2011-07-15 09:39:09 <Zagitta> afaik prostitution is a legal business as long as you're registered
 975 2011-07-15 09:39:26 <Zagitta> but can't say it's something i've researched
 976 2011-07-15 09:39:27 <CheapScotsman> Ah you have the Dutch model then
 977 2011-07-15 09:39:43 <CheapScotsman> my understanding was that the Swedish model spread to Denmark, Finland etc
 978 2011-07-15 09:40:04 <Zagitta> also how is equal human rights "being whipped by femenist"?
 979 2011-07-15 09:40:56 <CheapScotsman> Modern feminism is not about equal rights, at least not in North America, Britain and Sweden
 980 2011-07-15 09:41:06 <davro> How has this got anything todo with bitcoin development ?
 981 2011-07-15 09:41:13 <CheapScotsman> It is about retaining calls to chivalry while perpetually painting women as victims of everything
 982 2011-07-15 09:41:32 <CheapScotsman> Davro: The BTC conversation hit a wall once I realized that splitting PSUs was beyond my capacity
 983 2011-07-15 09:41:52 <davro> CheapScotsman: well jog on then !
 984 2011-07-15 09:42:06 <CheapScotsman> to?
 985 2011-07-15 09:42:33 erus` has joined
 986 2011-07-15 09:42:40 <davro> anywhere !
 987 2011-07-15 09:42:57 <CheapScotsman> I kind of like it here, with my feminist friends
 988 2011-07-15 09:43:13 <Zagitta> well women do tend to complain more but i fail to see your point, are you talking about equallity on the labor market? i don't watch or read political news so i don't know if you're talking about any recent events or somethign
 989 2011-07-15 09:44:08 <CheapScotsman> zagitta: The feminist legal system, mainly. In Canada and the states women receive less punishment for virtually every crime and receive custody of children in the vast majority of cases, far superior divorce settlements etc etc
 990 2011-07-15 09:44:30 <Zagitta> Canada != Denmark
 991 2011-07-15 09:44:34 <CheapScotsman> Sweden is even worse, and everything in Sweden is considered "rape." Julian Assange knows that well.
 992 2011-07-15 09:45:48 <Zagitta> well if you absolutly want to conform to gender roles and what not aren't men supposed to suck it up because "we're the stronger gender"
 993 2011-07-15 09:47:20 <Zagitta> also i tell you ghetto fork is a perfectly viable solution: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/imag0070ke.jpg/
 994 2011-07-15 09:47:38 <CheapScotsman> Well I dont believe we have been rewarded as, or acted as, the "stronger gender" for quite a while
 995 2011-07-15 09:47:49 <CheapScotsman> That does look impressive
 996 2011-07-15 09:48:04 <CheapScotsman> I basically just dont know how to set it up properly
 997 2011-07-15 09:48:43 <pixglen> Zagitta: I was applying the listsinceblock patch for a custom build https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/199#issuecomment-1514952
 998 2011-07-15 09:49:31 <Zagitta> pixglen: ah
 999 2011-07-15 09:50:10 <Zagitta> CheapScotsman: short the black and green wire on the main cable and then just connect the gfx cords as you normally would from the other PSU
1000 2011-07-15 09:50:25 <pixglen> grr... patched and rebuilding again ... it had to be that problematic rpc.cpp file...
1001 2011-07-15 09:50:58 <Zagitta> CheapScotsman: but the whole fork thing was mostly a joke
1002 2011-07-15 09:51:13 <CheapScotsman> zagitta: It seems someone takes your joke seriousl
1003 2011-07-15 09:51:13 <CheapScotsman> y
1004 2011-07-15 09:51:24 <Zagitta> :p
1005 2011-07-15 09:51:37 <CheapScotsman> So literally you dont even plug in the new PSU to the computer? You just short it and hook it up with a power cord?
1006 2011-07-15 09:52:29 <Zagitta> that's at least what i did when i upgraded my graphics card a long time ago only to realize my 400W psu wasn't big enough
1007 2011-07-15 09:52:40 <CheapScotsman> hmm, what of that fire risk?
1008 2011-07-15 09:53:04 <CheapScotsman> My PSU is suddenly not hot now despite nothing changing..that is disturbing
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1011 2011-07-15 09:53:50 <Zagitta> donno what that could be but ssrly at least wait till you have a propper way of shorting the 2 pins
1012 2011-07-15 09:53:53 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
1013 2011-07-15 09:54:20 <CheapScotsman> yeah maybe I'll pick up a couple paper clips tomorrow
1014 2011-07-15 09:54:41 <CheapScotsman> I really wish I could find a way to run my GPUs without the CPU error though
1015 2011-07-15 09:54:53 <CheapScotsman> it seems to contribute a lot to heat
1016 2011-07-15 09:54:59 <Zagitta> dualboot linux and windows :)
1017 2011-07-15 09:55:54 <Zagitta> anyway
1018 2011-07-15 09:55:56 <CheapScotsman> is it literally never an issue in linux?
1019 2011-07-15 09:56:18 <Zagitta> nope
1020 2011-07-15 09:56:26 <CheapScotsman> what miner do you use in linux?
1021 2011-07-15 09:56:32 <Zagitta> phoenix
1022 2011-07-15 09:56:43 <CheapScotsman> any GUI miners or does one have to get code-friendly?
1023 2011-07-15 09:56:54 <Zagitta> no gui miners
1024 2011-07-15 09:57:06 <Zagitta> but it's really not hard
1025 2011-07-15 09:57:29 MC-Eeepc has joined
1026 2011-07-15 09:57:35 <Zagitta> just look at the phoenix thread or even your pool and you'll basically get all the command line arguments fed to you
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1029 2011-07-15 09:59:20 <CheapScotsman> Yeah I may check that out
1030 2011-07-15 09:59:56 <CheapScotsman> It is disturbing me how the PSU is almost cool to the touch suddenly
1031 2011-07-15 10:00:06 <CheapScotsman> I could barely keep my fingers on it prior
1032 2011-07-15 10:01:17 <Zagitta> odd
1033 2011-07-15 10:02:31 <gjs278> ;;bc,stats
1034 2011-07-15 10:02:38 <gribble> Current Blocks: 136376 | Current Difficulty: 1564057.4508376 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 711 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 14 hours, 36 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1655259.97347356
1035 2011-07-15 10:03:06 <CheapScotsman> That's lower than expected.
1036 2011-07-15 10:03:23 <CheapScotsman> particularly to all the "EVERY DIFFICULTY WILL RAISE 50%" crowd
1037 2011-07-15 10:04:54 davro has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1039 2011-07-15 10:06:07 <Zagitta> my bet is 1.8 million because we're only half way through
1040 2011-07-15 10:07:23 <Zagitta> anyway i'm off for a whiel
1041 2011-07-15 10:07:24 <Zagitta> *while
1042 2011-07-15 10:07:31 <CheapScotsman> I factored in for 2.5 mil when I bought my cards so Im good for a bit
1043 2011-07-15 10:07:35 <CheapScotsman> alright cheers and thanks for the help
1044 2011-07-15 10:07:41 <Zagitta> np
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1066 2011-07-15 10:36:28 DDD has joined
1067 2011-07-15 10:36:43 <DDD> Hey :)
1068 2011-07-15 10:37:15 DDD is now known as MrDD
1069 2011-07-15 10:37:48 <MrDD> Anyone CPU Solomining with pool? :D
1070 2011-07-15 10:40:09 <MrDD> Where can i get patches for pushpoool
1071 2011-07-15 10:40:21 <MrDD> to it can take more CPU miners
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1074 2011-07-15 10:49:14 BlueMatt has joined
1075 2011-07-15 10:55:23 <MrDD> my pushpool crashing :(
1076 2011-07-15 10:56:51 <MrSam> :)
1077 2011-07-15 10:57:35 <MrDD> :D
1078 2011-07-15 10:57:58 <[Tycho]> MrDD, try asking for help on the bitcoin forum.
1079 2011-07-15 10:58:02 AnatolV has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1080 2011-07-15 10:58:24 AnatolV has joined
1081 2011-07-15 10:58:34 <MrDD> maybe this can help:
1082 2011-07-15 10:58:34 <MrDD> https://174.143.149.98/smf/index.php?topic=8707.160
1083 2011-07-15 10:59:00 <MrDD> changing that limits
1084 2011-07-15 11:00:41 <MrDD>       fs.file-max = 200000
1085 2011-07-15 11:00:41 <MrDD>       net.ipv4.tcp_fin_timeout = 10
1086 2011-07-15 11:00:41 <MrDD>       net.ipv4.ip_local_port_range = 10000 65000
1087 2011-07-15 11:00:52 <MrDD>       fs.file-max = 200000
1088 2011-07-15 11:00:52 <MrDD>       net.ipv4.tcp_fin_timeout = 10
1089 2011-07-15 11:00:52 <MrDD>       net.ipv4.ip_local_port_range = 10000 65000
1090 2011-07-15 11:01:00 p0s has joined
1091 2011-07-15 11:01:39 <MrDD> root     soft    nofile      34096
1092 2011-07-15 11:01:39 <MrDD> root     hard    nofile      34096
1093 2011-07-15 11:01:46 <MrDD> are this limits ok?
1094 2011-07-15 11:04:25 huk has quit ()
1095 2011-07-15 11:10:19 <b4epoche> MrDD:  the only reason you might want to have a bunch of CPU miners is if you're running a botnet...
1096 2011-07-15 11:10:45 <MrDD> I want to run all CPU and GPU
1097 2011-07-15 11:10:51 <MrDD> for other ppl
1098 2011-07-15 11:10:59 _sgstair has joined
1099 2011-07-15 11:10:59 sgstair has quit (Disconnected by services)
1100 2011-07-15 11:10:59 <MrDD> but its crashing when testing
1101 2011-07-15 11:11:00 _sgstair is now known as sgstair
1102 2011-07-15 11:12:25 <b4epoche> then you should tell the people using your pool that it's extremely stupid to mine with a cpu
1103 2011-07-15 11:12:41 Akinava has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1104 2011-07-15 11:13:07 <BitcoinForNewegg> why doesnt someone make their bothet GPU mine bitcoins while PC is idle .....
1105 2011-07-15 11:14:58 Katapult has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1106 2011-07-15 11:15:48 <b4epoche> that's what I don't get...  but I suspect botnet computers have terrible gpu's
1107 2011-07-15 11:16:50 Akinava has joined
1108 2011-07-15 11:17:18 <phedny> probably because botnet owners can earn a decent amount of money the dumb way and aren't even considering to upgrade it to a smart way
1109 2011-07-15 11:17:54 <Mpower> i got a botnet,,
1110 2011-07-15 11:18:01 <Mpower> can u help phedny
1111 2011-07-15 11:18:09 <Mpower> how to setup a gpu miners?
1112 2011-07-15 11:18:13 <Mpower> it need sdk be installed
1113 2011-07-15 11:18:19 <Mpower> and a check for gpu
1114 2011-07-15 11:18:43 <Mpower> do u know someone mining with botnet using gpu miner?
1115 2011-07-15 11:18:56 <phedny> can? probably .. but I don't intend to help with such activities
1116 2011-07-15 11:18:58 <b4epoche> and so the truth comes out...  MrDD and Mpower gotsa botnet.
1117 2011-07-15 11:19:10 <Mpower> i do
1118 2011-07-15 11:19:13 <Mpower> i dont know MrDD
1119 2011-07-15 11:19:29 <phedny> on Radio 1 in The Netherlands: "The Euro is under pressure, maybe the Bitcoin will take over." :)
1120 2011-07-15 11:19:40 <Mpower> do u have botnet too MrDD ?
1121 2011-07-15 11:19:50 <BitcoinForNewegg> i know a guy who
1122 2011-07-15 11:19:58 <Mpower> true, can make much $ out of a botnet while u manage it business way.
1123 2011-07-15 11:20:02 <BitcoinForNewegg> well, his bussy has hundreds of thousands of bots :/
1124 2011-07-15 11:20:06 <BitcoinForNewegg> buddy*
1125 2011-07-15 11:20:08 <Mpower> think the postive side
1126 2011-07-15 11:20:08 <MrDD> nah, i want to build pool only
1127 2011-07-15 11:20:12 cdecker has joined
1128 2011-07-15 11:20:40 <Mpower> nice BitcoinForNewegg then i might like to meet ur friend
1129 2011-07-15 11:20:52 <BitcoinForNewegg> my friend doesnt do that stuff anymore
1130 2011-07-15 11:21:00 <BitcoinForNewegg> I dont knwo if he is in cotact with his friend
1131 2011-07-15 11:21:09 <Mpower> imagine
1132 2011-07-15 11:21:09 <BitcoinForNewegg> or maybe it was 'his friend'
1133 2011-07-15 11:21:14 <Mpower> a botnet of 100k gpu miners
1134 2011-07-15 11:21:22 <Mpower> each at least 50mhs
1135 2011-07-15 11:21:27 <Mpower> how much would u gain ;/
1136 2011-07-15 11:21:28 <b4epoche> you fellas are too stupid to run a botnet
1137 2011-07-15 11:21:28 <b4epoche> [18:43:38] MrDD: Mpower is my friend
1138 2011-07-15 11:21:29 <b4epoche> [18:43:49] Mpower: hi
1139 2011-07-15 11:21:30 <BitcoinForNewegg> 100ks plural
1140 2011-07-15 11:21:45 <Mpower> Laugh Out Loud and u r the smart guy
1141 2011-07-15 11:21:58 <MrDD> lol
1142 2011-07-15 11:22:02 <BitcoinForNewegg> it would dominate bitcoin
1143 2011-07-15 11:22:18 <b4epoche> idiots.
1144 2011-07-15 11:22:26 <BitcoinForNewegg> but I dont ahve a botnet so I don't care
1145 2011-07-15 11:22:52 <BitcoinForNewegg> im case modding right now :)
1146 2011-07-15 11:23:10 <BitcoinForNewegg> drilling a 120MM hole in 1 MM cold rolled steel with a 10mm drikll bit
1147 2011-07-15 11:23:12 <Mpower> Laugh Out Loud b4epoche when u get ur self a botnet then making at least 20k$ month
1148 2011-07-15 11:23:18 <Mpower> start talking whats smart and whatsnot
1149 2011-07-15 11:23:22 <Mpower> anyway u r off
1150 2011-07-15 11:23:42 <BitcoinForNewegg> ya, u make more money doing other stuff
1151 2011-07-15 11:23:48 <b4epoche> where's BlueMatt ?
1152 2011-07-15 11:23:49 <BitcoinForNewegg> but if business is slow ever :)
1153 2011-07-15 11:24:02 <BlueMatt> b4epoche: Im here
1154 2011-07-15 11:24:03 <Mpower> many stuff,, but joining btc will make more extra
1155 2011-07-15 11:24:33 <BitcoinForNewegg> ya theres always p[eope that want to rent, or casinoes that havent paid their protectiopn money  lol
1156 2011-07-15 11:25:33 <Mpower> anyway,, who might help,, managing pool for me?
1157 2011-07-15 11:25:41 <Mpower> he will get a good share/donation
1158 2011-07-15 11:25:48 <Mpower> if all keep going smooth
1159 2011-07-15 11:26:13 Burgundy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1160 2011-07-15 11:26:17 <BlueMatt> why does everyone all of a sudden want to make a pool???
1161 2011-07-15 11:26:19 <BlueMatt> its not that easy
1162 2011-07-15 11:26:27 <BlueMatt> nor is it worth doing
1163 2011-07-15 11:26:29 <b4epoche> Mpower:  mining on a botnet is probably illegal and you're not going to get any help here.
1164 2011-07-15 11:26:30 <Mpower> i already have one,, which keep crashing Laugh Out Loud
1165 2011-07-15 11:26:36 <BlueMatt> unless you have a shitton of time to promote it
1166 2011-07-15 11:27:01 <Mpower> BlueMatt with my f'up pool i can make 35btc day +
1167 2011-07-15 11:27:11 <Mpower> and its fu'up
1168 2011-07-15 11:27:22 <BlueMatt> using a botnet?
1169 2011-07-15 11:27:33 <Mpower> keep crashing... it eats cpu to 99% with time
1170 2011-07-15 11:27:40 <Mpower> doesnt take more than 30 mins and it reach 99%
1171 2011-07-15 11:27:51 <senseles> running it on an atom?
1172 2011-07-15 11:27:56 <Mpower> yes.
1173 2011-07-15 11:28:00 <senseles> lol.
1174 2011-07-15 11:28:19 <Mpower> Laugh Out Loud What The F*ck
1175 2011-07-15 11:28:20 <Mpower> [2011-07-15 11:18:0.124778] HTTP request failed: Failed to connect to 127.0.0.1: Cannot assign requested address
1176 2011-07-15 11:28:20 <Mpower> [2011-07-15 11:18:0.130188] HTTP request failed: Failed to connect to 127.0.0.1: Cannot assign requested address
1177 2011-07-15 11:28:20 <Mpower> [2011-07-15 11:18:0.135743] HTTP request failed: Failed to connect to 127.0.0.1: Cannot assign requested address
1178 2011-07-15 11:28:20 <Mpower> [2011-07-15 11:18:8.569573] shutting down
1179 2011-07-15 11:28:22 <Mpower> X=X
1180 2011-07-15 11:28:27 <BlueMatt> stop spamming
1181 2011-07-15 11:28:33 <BlueMatt> and dont run on an atom
1182 2011-07-15 11:28:42 <Mpower> i thought u meant At The Moment
1183 2011-07-15 11:28:47 Qatz has joined
1184 2011-07-15 11:28:50 <Mpower> what is an atom?
1185 2011-07-15 11:28:53 DaQatz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1186 2011-07-15 11:29:08 <Mpower> am running this > http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/eq6
1187 2011-07-15 11:29:29 <BlueMatt> no one cares nor is going to help you use a botnet to mine
1188 2011-07-15 11:29:50 <BlueMatt> we avoid discussion of illegal stuff here
1189 2011-07-15 11:30:07 <Mpower> 50btc for that tho :>
1190 2011-07-15 11:30:11 wardearia has joined
1191 2011-07-15 11:30:17 <Mpower> pm me
1192 2011-07-15 11:30:30 Mpower has joined
1193 2011-07-15 11:30:54 grbgout has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1194 2011-07-15 11:30:55 <senseles> its kind of retarded
1195 2011-07-15 11:31:05 <senseles> because you'd have to cash out btc to real money eventually
1196 2011-07-15 11:31:14 <senseles> and that's all tracable
1197 2011-07-15 11:31:15 <Mpower> not a big deal man
1198 2011-07-15 11:31:21 <Mpower> not really
1199 2011-07-15 11:31:27 <BlueMatt> yes it is
1200 2011-07-15 11:31:39 <Mpower> not when u have droppers
1201 2011-07-15 11:31:53 <senseles> are you from romania by any chance?
1202 2011-07-15 11:31:55 <senseles> or china
1203 2011-07-15 11:31:58 <Mpower> nope
1204 2011-07-15 11:32:20 <phantomcircuit> lol @ sweden
1205 2011-07-15 11:32:24 <phantomcircuit> nice proxy ya got there
1206 2011-07-15 11:32:24 <Mpower> Laugh Out Loud
1207 2011-07-15 11:32:24 <BlueMatt> its absolutely traceable by anyone with enough effort, but that is enough discussion of this
1208 2011-07-15 11:32:52 <senseles> blue, was i reading it correctly that you're adding encryption into the wallet program itself?
1209 2011-07-15 11:32:57 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1210 2011-07-15 11:33:05 <BlueMatt> senseles: its there
1211 2011-07-15 11:33:11 <BlueMatt> latest nightlies/git head have it
1212 2011-07-15 11:33:12 <senseles> in .24?
1213 2011-07-15 11:33:18 <BlueMatt> no
1214 2011-07-15 11:33:18 <senseles> is it stable yet?
1215 2011-07-15 11:33:37 <BlueMatt> I wouldnt use it on something mission-critical, but if you have a wallet backup, yea its stable enough
1216 2011-07-15 11:33:52 <senseles> will it be in the next rc or release?
1217 2011-07-15 11:33:57 <BlueMatt> yes
1218 2011-07-15 11:34:03 <senseles> k, cool ill just wait then
1219 2011-07-15 11:35:10 b4epoche has joined
1220 2011-07-15 11:35:57 b4epoche is now known as _b4epoche
1221 2011-07-15 11:36:17 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1222 2011-07-15 11:36:25 <WakiMiko> what is the default connection limit?
1223 2011-07-15 11:36:38 <BlueMatt> 125 iirc
1224 2011-07-15 11:36:41 spm_Draget has joined
1225 2011-07-15 11:36:57 rynx has joined
1226 2011-07-15 11:36:58 <WakiMiko> reached :)
1227 2011-07-15 11:37:17 <_b4epoche> BlueMatt: have u banned Mpower
1228 2011-07-15 11:37:25 <BlueMatt> its become notoriously easy to hit conn limit, its kinda bad
1229 2011-07-15 11:37:32 <BlueMatt> net really isnt that healthy...
1230 2011-07-15 11:37:41 <BlueMatt> _b4epoche: na, hes shut up (for now)
1231 2011-07-15 11:38:00 <WakiMiko> why are more connections bad for the net?
1232 2011-07-15 11:38:05 <_b4epoche> He's ddos'ing me
1233 2011-07-15 11:38:16 <BlueMatt> _b4epoche: then banning him wont help
1234 2011-07-15 11:38:30 * Mpower sitting to learn somthing usefull here.
1235 2011-07-15 11:38:36 <BlueMatt> WakiMiko: it indicates that there arent enough nodes listening
1236 2011-07-15 11:39:15 <_b4epoche> I realize that.  Just didn't think we wanted that rifraf around here
1237 2011-07-15 11:39:32 <WakiMiko> _b4epoche: get a cloak
1238 2011-07-15 11:40:16 <_b4epoche> People here shouldn't need to hide
1239 2011-07-15 11:40:26 <WakiMiko> so, in a perfect world with no NATs and firewalls, would all clients have approx. 8 connections?
1240 2011-07-15 11:40:28 zapnap has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1241 2011-07-15 11:42:00 <_b4epoche> The stupid thing is that he's really ddos'ing a dynamic ip
1242 2011-07-15 11:42:18 <WakiMiko> get a cloak, change your ip, done
1243 2011-07-15 11:42:51 <MrDD> I think when he changes IP he ll be ddosed again hmm.. not sure =)
1244 2011-07-15 11:43:06 <BlueMatt> WakiMiko: no...all clients would make 8 outgoing, then since each client needs 8 more connections split across the net, each client would have 16 connections (if Im getting my logic right)
1245 2011-07-15 11:43:21 <BlueMatt> _b4epoche: since when can a cell accept incoming connections, aka how can he ddos you?
1246 2011-07-15 11:43:32 <_b4epoche> I'm not just saying that we don't want botnet operators around here
1247 2011-07-15 11:43:35 <Mpower> lets test that
1248 2011-07-15 11:43:47 <BlueMatt> most carriers just drop syns
1249 2011-07-15 11:43:52 <_b4epoche> It can't
1250 2011-07-15 11:43:54 rynx has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1251 2011-07-15 11:44:17 b4epoche has joined
1252 2011-07-15 11:44:20 <_b4epoche> Ddos is at comcast
1253 2011-07-15 11:44:23 <BlueMatt> ah
1254 2011-07-15 11:44:40 <b4epoche> ban those fuckers
1255 2011-07-15 11:44:57 <BlueMatt> do you have any proof it is Mpower?
1256 2011-07-15 11:45:08 Speeder has joined
1257 2011-07-15 11:45:08 <b4epoche> trying to fucking intimidate me via pm's too
1258 2011-07-15 11:45:11 <b4epoche> wtf.
1259 2011-07-15 11:45:23 <BlueMatt> pastebing?
1260 2011-07-15 11:45:25 sgstair has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1261 2011-07-15 11:45:26 <BlueMatt> s/g//
1262 2011-07-15 11:45:51 <b4epoche> BlueMatt:  he's already said he's running a botnet and needs help getting them to mine
1263 2011-07-15 11:45:54 <Mpower> not true :)
1264 2011-07-15 11:45:59 <Mpower> word.
1265 2011-07-15 11:46:07 sgstair has joined
1266 2011-07-15 11:46:13 <BlueMatt> b4epoche: can you post the stuff he is saying in pm to a pastebin was my question
1267 2011-07-15 11:46:33 <Mpower> i dont care to pm b4epoche
1268 2011-07-15 11:46:47 <WakiMiko> sure is #kindergarten in here
1269 2011-07-15 11:46:51 <_b4epoche>  privately says to _b4epoche} just learn to shut ur mouth or talk somthing usefull.   (notice)
1270 2011-07-15 11:46:53 <Mpower> anyway, iam off of that kid.
1271 2011-07-15 11:46:59 <Mpower> whatever i said was a notice :)
1272 2011-07-15 11:47:21 <BlueMatt> WakiMiko: yea
1273 2011-07-15 11:47:21 <Mpower> which doesnt conflict with rules of chan
1274 2011-07-15 11:47:30 <BlueMatt> no, it clearly does
1275 2011-07-15 11:47:31 <Mpower> [01:37] -> -_b4epoche- {privately says to _b4epoche}>shut ur mouth or talk somthing usefull.
1276 2011-07-15 11:47:38 <b4epoche> he pm's me my ip address...  network goes down...
1277 2011-07-15 11:47:42 <Mpower> when i do talk it in the channel then it does i belive
1278 2011-07-15 11:48:07 <Mpower> anyway, not interested in discussing somthing useless
1279 2011-07-15 11:48:21 <BlueMatt> ok happy?
1280 2011-07-15 11:48:25 <b4epoche> thank you
1281 2011-07-15 11:48:28 <BlueMatt> god
1282 2011-07-15 11:48:58 <b4epoche> I'd hope this would have been automatic
1283 2011-07-15 11:49:15 sanchaz has joined
1284 2011-07-15 11:49:15 <b4epoche> I mean, god, did you see his questions?
1285 2011-07-15 11:49:26 <WakiMiko> hm my server is also at hetzner, like the botnet guys
1286 2011-07-15 11:49:33 <b4epoche> unless we want to be helping botnet miners
1287 2011-07-15 11:49:36 ville-__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1288 2011-07-15 11:49:39 <BlueMatt> well I told him to shutup and he did, so I was gonna leave him, I dont like banning
1289 2011-07-15 11:50:12 <b4epoche> and MrDD is his accomplice
1290 2011-07-15 11:50:13 AnatolV has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
1291 2011-07-15 11:50:16 ferrouswheel has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1292 2011-07-15 11:50:21 TecnoBrat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1293 2011-07-15 11:50:24 AnatolV has joined
1294 2011-07-15 11:50:36 coderrr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1295 2011-07-15 11:50:36 _joe has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1296 2011-07-15 11:50:41 _sgstair has joined
1297 2011-07-15 11:50:42 sgstair has quit (Disconnected by services)
1298 2011-07-15 11:50:42 _sgstair is now known as sgstair
1299 2011-07-15 11:50:48 <WakiMiko> as decentralized and authorityless bitcoin is, i support a dictatorship in the irc :P
1300 2011-07-15 11:50:57 Mouse has joined
1301 2011-07-15 11:51:03 TecnoBrat has joined
1302 2011-07-15 11:51:04 <b4epoche> those idiots said they didn't know each other today when last night MrDD brought Mpower in
1303 2011-07-15 11:51:13 <Mouse> shush
1304 2011-07-15 11:51:19 <Mouse> b4epoche
1305 2011-07-15 11:51:26 <Mouse> stop moaning,
1306 2011-07-15 11:51:29 <b4epoche> and when I called them out...  wtf?
1307 2011-07-15 11:51:45 <MrDD> b4 who are you to talk someone they are idiots
1308 2011-07-15 11:51:53 _joe has joined
1309 2011-07-15 11:52:04 <BlueMatt> can we all just stfu and move on?
1310 2011-07-15 11:52:06 <WakiMiko> can we shut about this crap now
1311 2011-07-15 11:52:23 ferrouswheel has joined
1312 2011-07-15 11:52:24 * Mouse agrees.
1313 2011-07-15 11:52:29 Mpower has joined
1314 2011-07-15 11:52:33 <Mpower> Thanks tho.
1315 2011-07-15 11:52:55 phungus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1316 2011-07-15 11:53:37 ville-_ has joined
1317 2011-07-15 11:53:49 <b4epoche> he's probably the one ddos'ing all the other pools
1318 2011-07-15 11:54:06 coderrr has joined
1319 2011-07-15 11:54:11 <BlueMatt> when you have evidence aside form i dont like this guy, then come back
1320 2011-07-15 11:54:27 graingert has joined
1321 2011-07-15 11:55:12 <graingert> how are multi input tx's handled? it it sig = sign(sign(sign(tx))) for a 3 input tx?
1322 2011-07-15 11:55:17 <graingert> is it*
1323 2011-07-15 11:56:00 <_b4epoche> BlueMatt: read the history
1324 2011-07-15 11:56:49 <_b4epoche> Btw. Being ddos'd again
1325 2011-07-15 11:56:58 phungus has joined
1326 2011-07-15 11:57:11 <graingert> _b4epoche, whois?
1327 2011-07-15 11:57:13 <graingert> !ticker
1328 2011-07-15 11:57:22 <sacarlson> graingert: I would be interested in multi inputs as we now have multi output escrow but now multi input
1329 2011-07-15 11:57:33 <sacarlson> not multi input
1330 2011-07-15 11:57:54 <graingert> sacarlson, multi output escrow?
1331 2011-07-15 11:57:55 <MrDD> poor you b4epoche
1332 2011-07-15 11:57:59 <graingert> sacarlson, in the protocol?
1333 2011-07-15 11:58:02 <MrDD> kiddy
1334 2011-07-15 11:58:09 <graingert> sacarlson, how does that work?
1335 2011-07-15 11:58:35 <_b4epoche> This is just ridiculous.  I'm here helping bitcoin dev and you're letting botnet owners run things
1336 2011-07-15 11:58:38 <sacarlson> graingert: we have implemented in Multicoin multisign escrow that has multi output but we are also looking to create multi input
1337 2011-07-15 11:59:23 <sacarlson> graingert: you can look at the code as I didn't write it.  talk to groffer
1338 2011-07-15 11:59:31 <graingert> sacarlson, so you sign a tx that says send blah to blah send to charity if I don't release
1339 2011-07-15 11:59:51 <graingert> (in x blocks)
1340 2011-07-15 12:00:02 <graingert> then I sign a message saying release these funds?
1341 2011-07-15 12:00:03 <_b4epoche> Well I'm about ready to say fuck this all and I'll use my summer to do other things
1342 2011-07-15 12:00:14 <MrDD> anyone knows how to link 2 pushpools into 1?
1343 2011-07-15 12:00:26 <graingert> sacarlson, ^
1344 2011-07-15 12:00:42 <_b4epoche> Don't help MrDD
1345 2011-07-15 12:00:43 <sacarlson> graingert: no in this version you have 3rd parties or x parties that have vote on who will get the outputs
1346 2011-07-15 12:00:47 <BlueMatt> can we not discuss anything about pushpool or botnets or crap for a while here?
1347 2011-07-15 12:00:59 <MrDD> i dont care for botnets
1348 2011-07-15 12:01:03 <graingert> sacarlson, crumbs and miners support this
1349 2011-07-15 12:01:04 <graingert> ?
1350 2011-07-15 12:01:04 <MrDD> i need to setup my pool
1351 2011-07-15 12:01:12 <_b4epoche> You're running one
1352 2011-07-15 12:01:14 <BlueMatt> and I dont care for people setting up more pools ok
1353 2011-07-15 12:01:16 <graingert> sacarlson, linky link to details
1354 2011-07-15 12:01:20 <MrDD> its is not working b4epoche
1355 2011-07-15 12:02:06 <sacarlson> graingert: you can look in this link in the escrow section that has a link to example sesion http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=24209.0
1356 2011-07-15 12:02:23 <WakiMiko> _b4epoche: i told you to just get a cloak and be done with it
1357 2011-07-15 12:02:32 <graingert> sacarlson, and this works today?
1358 2011-07-15 12:02:55 <sacarlson> graingert: yes on my proto chains and in testnet
1359 2011-07-15 12:03:05 b4epoche has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1360 2011-07-15 12:03:27 <_b4epoche> I have to cloak myself here because you people like helping botnet operators?
1361 2011-07-15 12:03:33 <graingert> sacarlson, ah okay so it's not in bitcoin-current
1362 2011-07-15 12:03:41 <graingert> sacarlson, any planz for implimentation ?
1363 2011-07-15 12:04:24 <sacarlson> graingert:  well they tell me if I can get the miner to open it up it will work there to but to accelerate development we have moved on to new Alternate block chains
1364 2011-07-15 12:04:56 <graingert> sacarlson, ah okay
1365 2011-07-15 12:05:01 <graingert> sacarlson, interesting
1366 2011-07-15 12:05:13 b4epoche has joined
1367 2011-07-15 12:06:00 <sacarlson> graingert: you are welcome to join use in the development of the future at #multicoin
1368 2011-07-15 12:06:29 <graingert> sacarlson, could a block chain of block chains work?
1369 2011-07-15 12:06:44 <sacarlson> graingert: yes we are working on that method
1370 2011-07-15 12:07:00 <sacarlson> linked chains
1371 2011-07-15 12:07:02 <graingert> sacarlson, that's how this works?
1372 2011-07-15 12:07:12 <graingert> sacarlson, you link chains using a "master chain"
1373 2011-07-15 12:07:39 <sacarlson> graingert: no this just sets up a script to perform a nonstandard transaction
1374 2011-07-15 12:07:48 <graingert> kk
1375 2011-07-15 12:08:06 DDD has joined
1376 2011-07-15 12:08:10 <graingert> is it possible in the current bitcoin
1377 2011-07-15 12:08:38 <graingert> to create a tx from a bunch of addresses you don't own and one you do - then send the tx around to each person
1378 2011-07-15 12:08:55 <graingert> each person add's their signature to the onion of sigs
1379 2011-07-15 12:08:56 <sacarlson> graingert: and where as bitcoin at this time doesn't to my knoledge accept nonsstandard transaction but weeds, testnet and the future beertokens do
1380 2011-07-15 12:09:28 <graingert> this would not be a nonstandard transaction is the sign(sign(tx)) was how multi inputs works
1381 2011-07-15 12:10:24 MrDD has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1382 2011-07-15 12:10:44 DDD is now known as MrDD
1383 2011-07-15 12:10:56 <sacarlson> graingert: are you saying this escrow we now have will work on bitcoin?  Multicoin also supports bitcoin
1384 2011-07-15 12:11:27 <graingert> sacarlson, no this would not be escrow
1385 2011-07-15 12:11:34 <sacarlson> ok
1386 2011-07-15 12:11:40 <graingert> sacarlson, it would be a secure method of laundering
1387 2011-07-15 12:12:07 <sacarlson> graingert: well when you figure it out let me know
1388 2011-07-15 12:12:29 <graingert> sacarlson, I don't know how the signature of a multi input tx works
1389 2011-07-15 12:12:34 <graingert> sacarlson, I assume you do?
1390 2011-07-15 12:12:56 <sacarlson> graingert: no I've never seen any examples of script with multi input
1391 2011-07-15 12:13:47 <graingert> sacarlson, http://blockexplorer.com/tx/0db374e65327acb711a777d0b4bf16cd5448ff6699b59f0c1d8c6dc08bfb28d4
1392 2011-07-15 12:13:55 <graingert> sacarlson, no idea what you mean by "script"
1393 2011-07-15 12:14:00 Mouse has quit (Quit: Hates DDOS.)
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1395 2011-07-15 12:15:55 <graingert> sacarlson, they seem to be separatly signed...
1396 2011-07-15 12:17:01 <sacarlson> graingert: I don't know of any API that enables such a transaction
1397 2011-07-15 12:17:36 <sacarlson> graingert: but it would apear it can be done
1398 2011-07-15 12:17:45 <graingert> sacarlson, well it seems each input has to sign the inter output section
1399 2011-07-15 12:18:03 <graingert> entire*
1400 2011-07-15 12:18:37 <graingert> which would still work for this method of alowing multiple private persons to complete one transaction
1401 2011-07-15 12:18:54 <sacarlson> graingert: I guess an escrow when redeemed might look like that from the block explorer
1402 2011-07-15 12:19:05 <graingert> sacarlson, >.<
1403 2011-07-15 12:19:10 <graingert> sacarlson, not talking about escrow
1404 2011-07-15 12:20:17 <sacarlson> nope I"m wrong
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1409 2011-07-15 12:21:44 <sacarlson> graingert: I"ve only yestarday got my block explorer to work on weeds so I will have to analize the output of an escrow and or multi sign transaction to see what it ends up looking like
1410 2011-07-15 12:22:09 <graingert> kk
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1412 2011-07-15 12:22:58 <[Tycho]> It would be so much fun to create new scripts :(
1413 2011-07-15 12:23:09 MC-Eeepc has joined
1414 2011-07-15 12:23:14 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: you run a pool, you can
1415 2011-07-15 12:23:24 <sacarlson> [Tycho] so what's stoping you?
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1418 2011-07-15 12:26:21 <WakiMiko> would it get accepted by the rest of the network
1419 2011-07-15 12:26:38 <BlueMatt> if its in a block, yes
1420 2011-07-15 12:26:41 <sacarlson> BlueMatt: do we have any plans to be able to create custom scripts that can be entered from the API?
1421 2011-07-15 12:27:02 <BlueMatt> sacarlson: if you link against bitcoin as a library, of course, via rpc...probably not
1422 2011-07-15 12:27:07 <BlueMatt> but maybe in the future sometime
1423 2011-07-15 12:27:21 <sacarlson> BlueMatt ok thanks
1424 2011-07-15 12:28:21 <senseles> just make your own api using the binary
1425 2011-07-15 12:28:40 <sacarlson> senseles: ya that's what I was thinking
1426 2011-07-15 12:28:50 <bliket_> Is Tycho here?
1427 2011-07-15 12:29:07 <bliket_> I got this email from him: At this moment lots of miners with different IP addresses are accessing your DeepBit account. This doesn't looks like normal situation, so we ask you to explain this. Please, tell us, why there are so many PCs in different locations mining for you ?  We don't like to be used for illegal activities, so your account will be locked in 24 hours since the moment of sending this message until your explanati
1428 2011-07-15 12:29:10 <sacarlson> senseles: I just don't like to do anything if it's already in the works or been done
1429 2011-07-15 12:29:32 <senseles> deciphering someone else's api is not fun; specially if it's not documented.
1430 2011-07-15 12:30:00 <bliket_> I wrote my own java script to use deepbits pool
1431 2011-07-15 12:30:14 <bliket_> and he didn't like it
1432 2011-07-15 12:30:22 <sacarlson> senseles: well in my branch of MultiCoin I think it would be cool to have
1433 2011-07-15 12:30:29 <bliket_> "Sorry, we can't allow this. Can you please move your miners somewhere else in next 12 hours ?"
1434 2011-07-15 12:30:45 <WakiMiko> well thats essentially like runnigna botnet so yeah
1435 2011-07-15 12:30:53 redshark1802 has joined
1436 2011-07-15 12:31:10 <bliket_> running a botnet?
1437 2011-07-15 12:31:13 <senseles> heh, you could load it in a hidden iframe ~
1438 2011-07-15 12:31:22 <senseles> but it would take forever to generate a block and so would not be worth it
1439 2011-07-15 12:31:25 <spq> is it correct that one requires ~1h of trying when one can perform 1*2^20 hashes per second? to calculate an diff 1 solution?
1440 2011-07-15 12:31:40 <redshark1802> hello, one quick question: are generated addresses deleted from a wallet ever?
1441 2011-07-15 12:32:05 <WakiMiko> no addresses are deleted ever, unless you use an external tool to extract them
1442 2011-07-15 12:32:14 <redshark1802> thank you
1443 2011-07-15 12:32:21 <bliket_> in my deepbit account: "Your account is using multiple IPs and is a suspected botnet. If you think that this is a mistake, please contact us, otherwise it will be blocked in next 12 hours"
1444 2011-07-15 12:32:34 <BlueMatt> bliket_: I do think [Tycho] is here, please pm him
1445 2011-07-15 12:32:47 <senseles> bliket_: theres a way to get around that
1446 2011-07-15 12:33:08 <bliket_> yeah I don't really care anymore
1447 2011-07-15 12:33:13 <bliket_> but i thought that it was funny
1448 2011-07-15 12:33:24 <bliket_> It's like asking to get ddosed
1449 2011-07-15 12:33:28 minimoose has joined
1450 2011-07-15 12:33:42 <bliket_> kind of like how sony asked to get fucked with when they disabled other os
1451 2011-07-15 12:34:00 <BlueMatt> can we not discuss ddosing anymore today?
1452 2011-07-15 12:34:07 <BlueMatt> Ive had enough for one day
1453 2011-07-15 12:34:53 <[Tycho]> Yes, i'm here.
1454 2011-07-15 12:34:55 <bliket_> I was thinking of making a screen saver included in my program that mines for bitcoins
1455 2011-07-15 12:35:11 <bliket_> I don't get the whole "botnet" thing
1456 2011-07-15 12:35:17 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1457 2011-07-15 12:35:33 <bliket_> unless I am sending emails with your computers or your keystrokes it should be of no ones concern
1458 2011-07-15 12:35:57 <bliket_> as long as I put something about it in the user agreement in the fine print where nobody will ever read it :)
1459 2011-07-15 12:36:06 <[Tycho]> "<BlueMatt> [Tycho]: you run a pool, you can" - I didn't checked yet if there is something that can cause other nodes to decline my blocks with strange scripts.
1460 2011-07-15 12:36:10 <BlueMatt> if you are running any software on another person's computer without their knowledge and consent, its illegal
1461 2011-07-15 12:36:31 <bliket_> BlueMatt: What law?
1462 2011-07-15 12:36:35 <sacarlson> bliket_: that might be a good idea when your not siting at your computer then it mines.  not hard in linux as you can start scripts when screen saver starts and stops
1463 2011-07-15 12:36:35 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: there isnt, only normal nodes wont include them, but the blocks are accepted
1464 2011-07-15 12:36:46 <BlueMatt> bliket_: moral law and the law of just about ever jurisdiction
1465 2011-07-15 12:36:52 <senseles> tresspassing
1466 2011-07-15 12:36:57 <bliket_> lol
1467 2011-07-15 12:37:13 <BlueMatt> enough discussion of mining without consent for today , PLEASE
1468 2011-07-15 12:37:21 redshark1802 has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
1469 2011-07-15 12:37:23 <bliket_> Have you ever used windows and experienced like 5 tool bars run without your consent?
1470 2011-07-15 12:37:29 <senseles> my first mining box gets delivered today :D
1471 2011-07-15 12:37:34 <WakiMiko> bliket_: i havent
1472 2011-07-15 12:37:40 <bliket_> sensless: what gfx cards?
1473 2011-07-15 12:37:40 <BlueMatt> bliket_: very, very, very different
1474 2011-07-15 12:37:44 <senseles> 4x 5830
1475 2011-07-15 12:37:53 <BlueMatt> bliket_: and those toolbars always have their own page in the installer that askes
1476 2011-07-15 12:37:55 <bliket_> sensless: $120 or $140 each?
1477 2011-07-15 12:37:58 <senseles> i can do 6x with the board
1478 2011-07-15 12:38:00 erus` has joined
1479 2011-07-15 12:38:00 <senseles> 129$
1480 2011-07-15 12:38:08 <senseles> but im not there to do the custom mods
1481 2011-07-15 12:38:11 <senseles> so i have to run 4 :(
1482 2011-07-15 12:38:17 <[Tycho]> bliket_, what is your login name at deepbit ?
1483 2011-07-15 12:38:26 <BlueMatt> bliket_: mining on other people's hardware is illegal and immoral, period, and we dont discuss illegal things here
1484 2011-07-15 12:38:28 <bliket_> tlrdrdn71@gmail.com
1485 2011-07-15 12:38:37 <bliket_> but I already disabled everything
1486 2011-07-15 12:38:47 <bliket_> I am running legit miners on different account btw
1487 2011-07-15 12:38:59 <bliket_> I moved all my illegal practices to my own private pool :)
1488 2011-07-15 12:39:13 <[Tycho]> That's good.
1489 2011-07-15 12:39:22 <bliket_> if it didn't work with deepbit I didn't want to go around to different pools either
1490 2011-07-15 12:39:23 <WakiMiko> thats debatable
1491 2011-07-15 12:39:32 <bliket_> I just started my own private pool and problem solved
1492 2011-07-15 12:39:47 bliket_ has joined
1493 2011-07-15 12:39:51 <bliket_> ...
1494 2011-07-15 12:39:56 <senseles> whats with kids these days anyway
1495 2011-07-15 12:39:57 <bliket_> I was talking to tycho
1496 2011-07-15 12:40:01 <senseles> its no wonder so many of them get busted
1497 2011-07-15 12:40:04 <BlueMatt> lets STOP discussing that kind of crap
1498 2011-07-15 12:40:08 <BlueMatt> them pm him
1499 2011-07-15 12:40:09 <senseles> it's irc ffs
1500 2011-07-15 12:40:29 <bliket_> I can't believe i got kicked for that
1501 2011-07-15 12:40:36 <[Tycho]> Actually most botnet issues were resolved as a side-effect of losing compatibility with Ufasoft.
1502 2011-07-15 12:40:55 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: we dont discuss illegal things here, get it?
1503 2011-07-15 12:41:02 <bliket_> nobody uses ufasoft's miner anyway
1504 2011-07-15 12:41:08 <BlueMatt> bliket_: ^
1505 2011-07-15 12:41:10 <[Tycho]> Oh yes they do.
1506 2011-07-15 12:41:13 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: ?
1507 2011-07-15 12:41:17 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: sorr
1508 2011-07-15 12:41:17 <BlueMatt> y
1509 2011-07-15 12:41:18 <bliket_> really?
1510 2011-07-15 12:41:30 <Blitzboom> illegal in which country, anyway?
1511 2011-07-15 12:41:33 <BlueMatt> bliket_: well I did say it like 3 times before kicking you
1512 2011-07-15 12:41:33 <Blitzboom> :P
1513 2011-07-15 12:41:39 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: the us, or eu
1514 2011-07-15 12:41:44 <[Tycho]> I had one legal user with more than 9000 Ufasoft clients.
1515 2011-07-15 12:41:44 <BlueMatt> or anywhere a dev/mod is
1516 2011-07-15 12:41:46 <bliket_> I thought phoenix always got better mhash/sec then any other miner
1517 2011-07-15 12:41:49 <Blitzboom> ok
1518 2011-07-15 12:42:23 <bliket_> according to the mining page, nobody uses ufasoft's miner to do any legit comparisons. Plus whenever you look at a graphics card's highest mhash they are never using ufasoft's miner
1519 2011-07-15 12:42:25 ThomasV has joined
1520 2011-07-15 12:42:41 <BlueMatt> the ufasoft algo was ported to cpuminer
1521 2011-07-15 12:42:46 <BlueMatt> so people just use that
1522 2011-07-15 12:44:25 <bliket_> [Tyco]: Over 9000 ufasoft clients?
1523 2011-07-15 12:44:50 <bliket_> [Tycho]: Did he install somethig on every computer in his school's computer lab?
1524 2011-07-15 12:44:58 <bliket_> something*
1525 2011-07-15 12:46:18 <bliket_> [05:38] <[Tycho]> I had one legal user with more than 9000 Ufasoft clients.
1526 2011-07-15 12:46:27 <bliket_> I don't get the logistics of that
1527 2011-07-15 12:46:43 <bliket_> How was this made possible?
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1529 2011-07-15 12:51:02 vigilyn has joined
1530 2011-07-15 12:51:57 <[Tycho]> Why do you think it's impossible ?
1531 2011-07-15 12:52:16 <bliket_> I thought you were just referencing a meme "more than 9000"
1532 2011-07-15 12:52:39 <bliket_> I just don't get the logistics of running over 9000 cpu miners
1533 2011-07-15 12:52:53 <bliket_> I mean, nobody would buy rigs to do cpu mining
1534 2011-07-15 12:53:28 skeledrew has joined
1535 2011-07-15 12:53:30 <bliket_> So how would one get access to over 9000 computers to do cpu mining? is what I am wondering about
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1537 2011-07-15 12:54:36 <senseles> cybercafes could do that
1538 2011-07-15 12:54:45 <senseles> There are tons of cybercafes here in the philippines. Was considering doing that myself
1539 2011-07-15 12:54:55 <bliket_> but 9000?
1540 2011-07-15 12:55:04 <senseles> ya, there are tons of cybercafes here
1541 2011-07-15 12:55:07 <senseles> every street corner has one
1542 2011-07-15 12:55:19 <bliket_> you are talking about a warehouse style cybercafe
1543 2011-07-15 12:55:30 <senseles> no, im talking about 20 systems
1544 2011-07-15 12:55:37 <senseles> with 5-10 locations in a small area
1545 2011-07-15 12:55:42 <senseles> a few big chains
1546 2011-07-15 12:55:52 <senseles> could make a deal to run it in the background in exchange for a portion of income
1547 2011-07-15 12:56:01 <[Tycho]> No, it's not meme, it was over 9000
1548 2011-07-15 12:56:32 <senseles> correct, go from area to area and get the cafe owners to sign on. Most have lower end ati/nvidia gpus as well
1549 2011-07-15 12:56:36 <senseles> so could do cpu and gpu mining
1550 2011-07-15 12:56:55 <senseles> 200 comps go a few km down the road
1551 2011-07-15 12:56:57 <senseles> another 200
1552 2011-07-15 12:57:01 <bliket_> sensles: the average cybercaft cpu won't do more then 1-2mhash, so your 5-10 cyber cafes with 20 systems each won't generate more then 1 5830 :)
1553 2011-07-15 12:57:32 <bliket_> what motherboard are you getting senseles?
1554 2011-07-15 12:57:40 <senseles> secret ~
1555 2011-07-15 12:57:46 <senseles> i dont want newegg to sell out of components
1556 2011-07-15 12:57:54 <bliket_> 890fxa-gd70?
1557 2011-07-15 12:57:54 <senseles> was planning on ordering 10 more after this one was built
1558 2011-07-15 12:58:06 <pixglen> ok, the test web service for my bitcoin exchange is up: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=29057.0
1559 2011-07-15 12:58:06 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1560 2011-07-15 12:58:10 <bliket_> but... there is no more money to be made in mining :)
1561 2011-07-15 12:58:18 <senseles> you're crazy
1562 2011-07-15 12:58:29 <senseles> ROI on my machine is < 3 months at current difficulty
1563 2011-07-15 12:58:32 <pixglen> would love your testing / feedback / critique / room for improvement etc.
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1565 2011-07-15 12:58:52 <Namegduf> senseles: You realise difficulty changes every two weeks and has been known to double before, right?
1566 2011-07-15 12:58:59 <senseles> yep
1567 2011-07-15 12:59:47 <Namegduf> Extrapolating based on current difficulty on a scale of months is like extrapolating the next month's weather based on a single day.
1568 2011-07-15 13:00:10 <Namegduf> Except at least the weather doesn't actually trend in any particular direction. :P
1569 2011-07-15 13:00:19 <senseles> yep
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1571 2011-07-15 13:00:32 <senseles> i figured at most it would be 10% every 2 weeks or so
1572 2011-07-15 13:00:58 <senseles> even so, the machine is capable of up to 2 month ROI
1573 2011-07-15 13:01:01 <senseles> if i was there to custom mod it
1574 2011-07-15 13:01:16 <bliket_> senseles: why didn't you buy 6 gfx cards?
1575 2011-07-15 13:01:19 <Namegduf> "at most" it's been over 100% in a two week period
1576 2011-07-15 13:01:25 <senseles> because no one there to mod it
1577 2011-07-15 13:01:30 Qatz is now known as DaQatz
1578 2011-07-15 13:01:39 <senseles> but on average its like 10%?
1579 2011-07-15 13:01:44 <Namegduf> I don't think so.
1580 2011-07-15 13:02:29 <Namegduf> http://bitcoin.sipa.be/
1581 2011-07-15 13:02:37 <senseles> worst case ill open a small render cluster and rent it out
1582 2011-07-15 13:02:45 <Namegduf> See the size of the jumps in the red lines.
1583 2011-07-15 13:03:37 <senseles> Sure, from what i understand difficulty is set based upon the collective network hashing rate
1584 2011-07-15 13:03:42 <Namegduf> It *may* drop this two week period, which is almost unprecedented
1585 2011-07-15 13:03:49 <senseles> so, it should plateau eventually, no?
1586 2011-07-15 13:04:14 <Namegduf> It will plateau when collective hashing capacity does.
1587 2011-07-15 13:04:16 <senseles> the only unknown factor there
1588 2011-07-15 13:04:25 <senseles> is the number of kids willing to overpay on 69xx series
1589 2011-07-15 13:04:25 <Namegduf> Which is to say, when it is no longer profitable to start mining.
1590 2011-07-15 13:04:31 <senseles> and end up losing money on it
1591 2011-07-15 13:04:37 <senseles> thats what i was saying
1592 2011-07-15 13:04:48 <senseles> for some profitability is irrelevant
1593 2011-07-15 13:05:10 <senseles> but even at a ROI of 10 months
1594 2011-07-15 13:05:21 <senseles> that's still the same ROI i'd get for buying a server colocating it and renting it out
1595 2011-07-15 13:05:35 <senseles> guaranteed client as long as the BTC market is stable
1596 2011-07-15 13:05:38 <senseles> can't complain about that
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1599 2011-07-15 13:05:51 <senseles> plus, no customers to deal with
1600 2011-07-15 13:05:51 <senseles> ..
1601 2011-07-15 13:05:54 <senseles> that's a big time plus
1602 2011-07-15 13:06:07 DDD has joined
1603 2011-07-15 13:06:10 <senseles> If i get another "it don't work" support ticket I'm going to start shooting people
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1615 2011-07-15 13:19:22 <epscy> ;;bc,stats
1616 2011-07-15 13:19:24 <gribble> Current Blocks: 136400 | Current Difficulty: 1564057.4508376 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 687 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 11 hours, 3 minutes, and 27 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1659299.28882959
1617 2011-07-15 13:19:39 Burgundy has joined
1618 2011-07-15 13:19:54 <epscy> difficulty drops are not unprecedented, admittedly recently they have been rare
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1631 2011-07-15 13:44:30 <bliket_> i got a question
1632 2011-07-15 13:45:06 <bliket_> why hasnt someone made their own motherboard to run unlimited amounts of gpus?
1633 2011-07-15 13:45:36 <BlueMatt> lol
1634 2011-07-15 13:45:45 <bliket_> my laptop for example has a 5870m and it does 150mhash/sec
1635 2011-07-15 13:45:53 <bliket_> and the graphics card itself is like 2 by 3 inches
1636 2011-07-15 13:45:59 <bliket_> its a tiny card
1637 2011-07-15 13:46:19 <bliket_> why not put like a million of these card together
1638 2011-07-15 13:46:23 <BlueMatt> someone made their own mobo? are you joking?
1639 2011-07-15 13:46:41 <BlueMatt> soooo much cheaper to buy a TON of one gpu ones than make one like 20 gpu one
1640 2011-07-15 13:46:48 <BlueMatt> if 20 gpus is even possible with current chipsets
1641 2011-07-15 13:46:51 <bliket_> how about the guys that made the DES crack board
1642 2011-07-15 13:46:54 <BlueMatt> Id say youd have to design your own chipset...
1643 2011-07-15 13:47:05 <bliket_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFF_DES_cracker
1644 2011-07-15 13:47:16 <[Tycho]> It would be more effective to just order some real ASICs :)
1645 2011-07-15 13:47:16 <BlueMatt> people have make their own custom asics/etc to hash
1646 2011-07-15 13:47:26 <BlueMatt> but making a custom mobo with gpus...lol
1647 2011-07-15 13:47:49 <[Tycho]> Should be tens of times more energy-efficient than GPUs.
1648 2011-07-15 13:48:37 <[Tycho]> You don't need to create new chipsets, PCIe switches are more suitable for that.
1649 2011-07-15 13:48:51 <BlueMatt> oh, yea that would work too
1650 2011-07-15 13:49:03 <bliket_> ok how about this
1651 2011-07-15 13:49:11 <bliket_> you know how motherboards have pci-e x16 slots
1652 2011-07-15 13:49:23 <bliket_> theoretically 16 lanes means you can run 16 gfx cards
1653 2011-07-15 13:49:27 <BlueMatt> no
1654 2011-07-15 13:49:29 <bliket_> no?
1655 2011-07-15 13:49:33 <[Tycho]> Yes.
1656 2011-07-15 13:49:35 <bliket_> yes?
1657 2011-07-15 13:49:40 <BlueMatt> well you can sort of
1658 2011-07-15 13:49:52 <[Tycho]> 1 lane is enough
1659 2011-07-15 13:49:58 <bliket_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Pinout
1660 2011-07-15 13:50:06 <bliket_> you see the pinout?
1661 2011-07-15 13:50:09 <BlueMatt> yes, but you cant shove 16 gpus on 1 pcie x16 slot
1662 2011-07-15 13:50:36 <BlueMatt> you can put a gpu on a x4 easily or even x1 if you can convince your mobo and gpu to work on a x1
1663 2011-07-15 13:50:47 nus has joined
1664 2011-07-15 13:50:49 <bliket_> you should be able to, if you send the correct "wake" message to the gpu and motherboard, you should be able to splice some ribbon cables together to put 16 gpus in 1 pci-e x16
1665 2011-07-15 13:51:07 <bliket_> BlueMatt I do, I short out 2 pins and it works flawlessly
1666 2011-07-15 13:51:20 <bliket_> Actually all my gfx cards run on x1
1667 2011-07-15 13:51:27 <BlueMatt> I highly doubt a standard mobo will be willing to run many gpus on a single slot
1668 2011-07-15 13:51:30 <BlueMatt> if more than one at all
1669 2011-07-15 13:51:32 <BlueMatt> but I could be wrong
1670 2011-07-15 13:51:38 <bliket_> you probably are wrong
1671 2011-07-15 13:51:43 <bliket_> :P
1672 2011-07-15 13:51:51 <BlueMatt> meh whatever
1673 2011-07-15 13:52:22 <bliket_> the first pins of a pci-e x1 are just wake and power
1674 2011-07-15 13:52:32 <bliket_> the real lane is like 4 pins
1675 2011-07-15 13:52:47 <BlueMatt> no, I have no doubt pcie pinout and standard support it
1676 2011-07-15 13:52:50 <bliket_> Lane 0 transmit data, + and − and Lane 0 receive data, + and −
1677 2011-07-15 13:52:54 <BlueMatt> but will a standard chipset?
1678 2011-07-15 13:53:02 <bliket_> true
1679 2011-07-15 13:53:04 <bliket_> touche
1680 2011-07-15 13:53:55 magn3ts has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1681 2011-07-15 13:54:05 <bliket_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Pinout
1682 2011-07-15 13:54:07 <bliket_> look at this
1683 2011-07-15 13:54:10 <bliket_> someone
1684 2011-07-15 13:54:14 <BlueMatt> actually, does the standard support it?
1685 2011-07-15 13:54:38 <BlueMatt> doesnt look like it
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1687 2011-07-15 13:55:21 devon_hillard has joined
1688 2011-07-15 13:55:26 <bliket_> there is no reason you can't use 16 individual graphics cards in 1 pci-e x16 slot if you sent the correct wake commands and apply the correct power to the first couple pins on each of those individual graphics cards
1689 2011-07-15 13:56:02 <BlueMatt> just because the pinout looks like it will work, doesnt mean the standard actually supports it
1690 2011-07-15 13:56:30 _sgstair has joined
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1692 2011-07-15 13:56:32 _sgstair is now known as sgstair
1693 2011-07-15 13:56:34 magn3ts has joined
1694 2011-07-15 13:56:46 <senseles> bliket
1695 2011-07-15 13:56:49 <senseles> make your own board
1696 2011-07-15 13:56:53 <bliket_> lol
1697 2011-07-15 13:56:54 <bliket_> thanks
1698 2011-07-15 13:56:56 <senseles> that will route it correctly
1699 2011-07-15 13:57:01 <senseles> ill buy a bunch off you
1700 2011-07-15 13:57:04 <bliket_> :)
1701 2011-07-15 13:57:22 <senseles> get a board with 8x pcie slots
1702 2011-07-15 13:57:28 <senseles> and stick 16 cards on each slot
1703 2011-07-15 13:57:29 <senseles> :/
1704 2011-07-15 13:57:30 <BlueMatt> oh, no you are right, standard claims to support it, I just doubt a standard gpu will be willing to run on it...
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1706 2011-07-15 13:58:11 <senseles> 128 gpus on one board o_O
1707 2011-07-15 13:58:13 <bliket_> BlueMatt: The "standard" doesn't support me to use a x1 cable in an x16 card, but after dremelling and hotwiring pin #1 to #17 it does
1708 2011-07-15 13:58:20 <bliket_> senseless: more like 52
1709 2011-07-15 13:58:35 <senseles> there is that gigabyte board with 8x 16x pci-e
1710 2011-07-15 13:58:51 <BlueMatt> bliket_: you dont need to dremmel and hotwire, you can just tape the ports that you dont want
1711 2011-07-15 13:58:55 <BlueMatt> ie all of them after x1
1712 2011-07-15 13:58:59 <BlueMatt> and it works fine
1713 2011-07-15 13:59:57 <bliket_> yeah i actually did need to hotwire a bunch of x1 ports to make it pickup my pci-e gpus
1714 2011-07-15 14:00:11 <BlueMatt> that makes no sense
1715 2011-07-15 14:00:38 <bliket_> http://blog.zorinaq.com/images/pcie-short-schematic.png
1716 2011-07-15 14:00:38 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1717 2011-07-15 14:00:46 <bliket_> now does it make sense?
1718 2011-07-15 14:01:06 klikklak has joined
1719 2011-07-15 14:01:09 <UukGoblin> bliket_, it does, I do that
1720 2011-07-15 14:01:18 <bliket_> it works flawlessly
1721 2011-07-15 14:01:23 <BlueMatt> because I know 100% people who have just taped off the pins higher than the target speed ant it works fine
1722 2011-07-15 14:01:24 <UukGoblin> yup
1723 2011-07-15 14:01:43 <BlueMatt> unless you dont want to cut the part on your mobo so it will plug in
1724 2011-07-15 14:02:00 <BlueMatt> yea you can do it that way, but there are easier ways
1725 2011-07-15 14:02:26 <bliket_> you know whats weird
1726 2011-07-15 14:02:35 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1727 2011-07-15 14:02:37 <bliket_> I actually have to short those two pins out on x16 slots as well
1728 2011-07-15 14:02:44 <bliket_> and some of them i dont need to
1729 2011-07-15 14:02:55 sgstair has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1730 2011-07-15 14:02:55 <bliket_> it's really weird, must be the way the motherboard is made
1731 2011-07-15 14:02:57 datagutt has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1732 2011-07-15 14:03:35 datagutt has joined
1733 2011-07-15 14:03:40 <BlueMatt> if you plug in a x16 gpu to a x1 slot (and cut the bit of plastic you need to on the mobo to get it to fit) it will gladly downgrade to x1
1734 2011-07-15 14:03:58 <BlueMatt> if you tape the pins higher than the target speed on a gpu, it will downgrade to that speed
1735 2011-07-15 14:04:06 <BlueMatt> no crazy mods necessary
1736 2011-07-15 14:04:11 <bliket_> i dont get that, "tape the pins"
1737 2011-07-15 14:04:27 <bliket_> tape the pins so they dont touch the pins on the motherboard?
1738 2011-07-15 14:04:27 <BlueMatt> put tape on the pins between the gpu and the mobo so there is no electrical contact
1739 2011-07-15 14:04:31 <BlueMatt> literally put tape there
1740 2011-07-15 14:04:42 <bliket_> ah
1741 2011-07-15 14:05:47 <bliket_> so... it's not possible to connect 16 individual gpus to 1 pci-e x16 slot
1742 2011-07-15 14:05:53 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1743 2011-07-15 14:05:55 <BlueMatt> it might be
1744 2011-07-15 14:06:21 <bliket_> http://www.msi.com/product/mb/Big-Bang-Marshal--B3-.html#?div=Detail
1745 2011-07-15 14:06:25 <bliket_> - PCI_E1 supports up to PCIE x16 speed (when PCI_E3 is empty) - PCI_E2 supports up to PCIE x1 speed - PCI_E3 supports up to PCIE x8 speed - PCI_E4 supports up to PCIE x1 speed - PCI_E5 supports up to PCIE x16 speed (when PCI_E7 is empty) - PCI_E6 supports up to PCIE x1 speed - PCI_E7 supports up to PCIE x8 speed - PCI_E8 supports up to PCIE x1 speed
1746 2011-07-15 14:06:38 <bliket_> i am using this board as an example
1747 2011-07-15 14:06:51 SeriousWorm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1748 2011-07-15 14:06:52 <BlueMatt> and you want to plug in multiple gpus per slot?
1749 2011-07-15 14:06:55 <bliket_> you can see that it has (physically) 8 pci-e x16 slots
1750 2011-07-15 14:06:56 <BlueMatt> you alerady have enough
1751 2011-07-15 14:06:57 <bliket_> yes
1752 2011-07-15 14:07:02 <bliket_> no i dont
1753 2011-07-15 14:07:23 <BlueMatt> if you have that kind of money to spend on gpus, just buy a new mobo, or go asic
1754 2011-07-15 14:08:21 Xunie has quit (Excess Flood)
1755 2011-07-15 14:08:21 <bliket_> you can see that the msi big bang marshal has 8 pci-e x16 slots, but in reality according to the specs, slot #1) does x16 when slot 3 is empty slot #2) is only x1 slot #3) is x8 slot #4 is x1 speed etc
1756 2011-07-15 14:08:38 <bliket_> a total of 52 lanes
1757 2011-07-15 14:08:40 <BlueMatt> mining doesnt care about speed
1758 2011-07-15 14:08:51 <bliket_> yes i wasnt saying differently
1759 2011-07-15 14:09:13 Xunie has joined
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1761 2011-07-15 14:09:40 <bliket_> so theoretically 52 lanes should mean you could hack the mobo and gpu to send the correct wake messages and then splice some pci-e ribbon cables to 52 individual pci-e graphics cards
1762 2011-07-15 14:09:42 kermit has joined
1763 2011-07-15 14:09:46 Joric has joined
1764 2011-07-15 14:09:59 <BlueMatt> its the hack the mobo and gpu part that I dont think is feasible
1765 2011-07-15 14:10:02 <bliket_> and also splice the correct pci-e power
1766 2011-07-15 14:10:11 <Joric> i've tried bootstrapping from torrent trackers once :)
1767 2011-07-15 14:10:20 <BlueMatt> Joric: using what hash?
1768 2011-07-15 14:10:26 <Joric> random
1769 2011-07-15 14:10:32 <BlueMatt> how is that going to help?
1770 2011-07-15 14:10:37 <Joric> well, not entirely random
1771 2011-07-15 14:10:46 <Joric> you may use a function of date or something
1772 2011-07-15 14:11:13 <BlueMatt> no, you would have to use one set hash for everyone
1773 2011-07-15 14:11:20 <Joric> the problem is... tracker hosters
1774 2011-07-15 14:11:24 <BlueMatt> otherwise you wouldnt be bootstrapping anything
1775 2011-07-15 14:11:24 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1776 2011-07-15 14:11:27 <BlueMatt> but seriously, why?
1777 2011-07-15 14:11:33 <BlueMatt> we have dnsseeds now, which work great
1778 2011-07-15 14:11:34 <IO-> i'm so tried I read trashed hookers
1779 2011-07-15 14:11:41 <IO-> those ARE a problem though
1780 2011-07-15 14:12:02 <BlueMatt> ???
1781 2011-07-15 14:12:08 minus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1782 2011-07-15 14:12:14 <IO-> ^?Joric
1783 2011-07-15 14:12:57 <D0han> where can i read how exactly dns seed work?
1784 2011-07-15 14:13:25 <BlueMatt> its really complicated, bitcoin looksup the ips of a domain name and adds those nodes
1785 2011-07-15 14:13:29 <BlueMatt> really, really complicated
1786 2011-07-15 14:13:41 BurtyB has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1787 2011-07-15 14:14:22 <D0han> 'really complicated' == 'we dont have any docs on that'?
1788 2011-07-15 14:14:22 <IO-> you could do a service, Matt, you run the seed and make a few different 20 line zone files. other people jsut have to cron a wget once in a while and add an $INCLUDE line
1789 2011-07-15 14:14:24 <IO-> much easier
1790 2011-07-15 14:14:36 <bliket_> they already use two gpus per slot, what do you think the 6990 is... right?
1791 2011-07-15 14:14:42 <IO-> i could set that up my self to
1792 2011-07-15 14:15:04 <BlueMatt> D0han: really complicated == I just explained everything there is to it
1793 2011-07-15 14:15:11 <bliket_> i will not quit trying to figure out how to stuff 16 graphics cards in 1 slot until someone explains me why it's not doable
1794 2011-07-15 14:15:13 Kobier has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1795 2011-07-15 14:15:19 <BlueMatt> IO-: no, its better to have more scanners
1796 2011-07-15 14:15:21 <bliket_> (that's what she said)
1797 2011-07-15 14:15:24 blishchrot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1798 2011-07-15 14:15:25 <senseles> bliket
1799 2011-07-15 14:15:27 <senseles> it is possible
1800 2011-07-15 14:15:27 <bliket_> yes
1801 2011-07-15 14:15:30 <senseles> it's just expensive
1802 2011-07-15 14:15:30 <bliket_> it has to be
1803 2011-07-15 14:15:37 <bliket_> where is the expense?
1804 2011-07-15 14:15:38 <senseles> there are tons of pcie expansion chassis
1805 2011-07-15 14:15:43 <senseles> but nothing cheaper than like 1500$
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1807 2011-07-15 14:15:52 <D0han> BlueMatt: not really, 'bitcoin looksup the ips of a domain name' - what domain name?
1808 2011-07-15 14:16:00 <BlueMatt> hardcoded ones
1809 2011-07-15 14:16:04 minus has joined
1810 2011-07-15 14:16:06 blishchrot has joined
1811 2011-07-15 14:16:07 <senseles> ive seen 1 pci-e x16 to 7 pcie x16
1812 2011-07-15 14:16:07 <bliket_> oh
1813 2011-07-15 14:16:08 <bliket_> "Expand one PCI Express slot to single or multiple PCI Express slots in a separate enclosure with dedicated power and cooling."
1814 2011-07-15 14:16:20 <bliket_> nice
1815 2011-07-15 14:16:22 <bliket_> so i am right
1816 2011-07-15 14:16:29 <senseles> ya..
1817 2011-07-15 14:16:34 _b4epoche has joined
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1819 2011-07-15 14:16:39 <gmaxwell> There is a 1 to 3 splitter (small switch) for 1x out there for about $50.
1820 2011-07-15 14:16:41 <bliket_> well what's so expensive about it?
1821 2011-07-15 14:16:50 <Joric> "run a tracker if you really love the protocol. opentracker is free. but please don't abuse other people's servers. if I found you doing that I would silently begin inserting false addresses and removing the ones you put there
1822 2011-07-15 14:16:51 <bliket_> link
1823 2011-07-15 14:16:52 <bliket_> ?
1824 2011-07-15 14:17:00 _b4epoche has left ()
1825 2011-07-15 14:17:05 <senseles> i dunno they're just expensive
1826 2011-07-15 14:17:08 <D0han> so there are hardcoded domains with multiple A records, handled by somebody
1827 2011-07-15 14:17:08 <senseles> the ones i found online
1828 2011-07-15 14:17:10 <senseles> theres one thats called
1829 2011-07-15 14:17:12 <BlueMatt> bliket_: well the first part is that you have to have room in your case for 200 gpus
1830 2011-07-15 14:17:13 <bliket_> 1-3 isnt expensive
1831 2011-07-15 14:17:13 <senseles> gpu xpander
1832 2011-07-15 14:17:16 <senseles> dell makes one
1833 2011-07-15 14:17:20 <senseles> theres the magma chassis
1834 2011-07-15 14:17:21 <BlueMatt> D0han: thats the idea
1835 2011-07-15 14:17:52 <D0han> and how is that unstopabble? usa already blocked few domains in past
1836 2011-07-15 14:18:20 <BlueMatt> D0han: there is no such thing as an unstoppable bootstraping method
1837 2011-07-15 14:18:29 <gmaxwell> Who says its unstoppable? bitcoin is _trivially_ blocked, regardless of the bootstraping method.
1838 2011-07-15 14:18:37 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin is not an anti-censorship network.
1839 2011-07-15 14:18:48 <phedny> still.. it's not trivially blocked
1840 2011-07-15 14:18:54 <senseles> can change port
1841 2011-07-15 14:18:54 ar4s has joined
1842 2011-07-15 14:18:59 <phedny> at best the currently used communication methods can be blocked
1843 2011-07-15 14:19:00 <gmaxwell> If you want that, use TOR. (which is alsonot much of an anti-censorship network, but much  better)
1844 2011-07-15 14:19:04 <Joric> i've used udp trackers btw, because i've mostly used udp traffic
1845 2011-07-15 14:19:04 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1846 2011-07-15 14:19:05 <bliket_> gmaxwell: what was that 1-3 splitter you were talking about called?
1847 2011-07-15 14:19:08 <BlueMatt> senseles: lol
1848 2011-07-15 14:19:11 <senseles> does bitcoin encrypt between peers?
1849 2011-07-15 14:19:19 <gmaxwell> senseles: No. There is no encryption.
1850 2011-07-15 14:19:19 <senseles> as long as there is encryption and a non-standard port
1851 2011-07-15 14:19:23 <senseles> theres no real way to filter it
1852 2011-07-15 14:19:37 <gmaxwell> bliket_: I would have linked it if I remembered the name.
1853 2011-07-15 14:19:37 <BlueMatt> yes there is
1854 2011-07-15 14:19:40 <senseles> but if it's no encrypted it would take <1ms to scan the packet and filter it
1855 2011-07-15 14:19:51 <BlueMatt> senseles: its trivial to filter based on heuristics of the protocol
1856 2011-07-15 14:19:57 <BlueMatt> senseles: many isps do it
1857 2011-07-15 14:20:02 <BlueMatt> it takes hardware, but dpi exists
1858 2011-07-15 14:20:03 <senseles> that sucks
1859 2011-07-15 14:20:04 <BlueMatt> and is used
1860 2011-07-15 14:20:04 estornudo has joined
1861 2011-07-15 14:20:16 <senseles> are any countries actively blocking bitcoin?
1862 2011-07-15 14:20:17 <gmaxwell> Again, bitcoin is not an anti-censorship system. There are anticensorship systems, bitcoin will work with them.
1863 2011-07-15 14:20:20 <senseles> thailand? china?
1864 2011-07-15 14:20:23 <gmaxwell> Reinventing the wheel is not smart.
1865 2011-07-15 14:20:23 <BlueMatt> senseles: not yet
1866 2011-07-15 14:21:13 DrSeuss has joined
1867 2011-07-15 14:22:02 TheZimm has joined
1868 2011-07-15 14:22:05 DrSeuss is now known as Dr_Seuss
1869 2011-07-15 14:22:39 <D0han> "bitseed.xf2.org", "bitseed.bitcoin.org.uk", "dnsseed.bluematt.me"
1870 2011-07-15 14:22:45 <BlueMatt> those are them
1871 2011-07-15 14:22:45 Dr_Seuss is now known as Graphene
1872 2011-07-15 14:22:54 <D0han> huh, i expected like ~20 domains
1873 2011-07-15 14:22:56 <D0han> not 3 ;p
1874 2011-07-15 14:23:04 <IO-> look em up
1875 2011-07-15 14:23:04 <BlueMatt> more are on the way
1876 2011-07-15 14:23:06 Graphene is now known as Graphane
1877 2011-07-15 14:23:08 <bliket_> what is so expensive about pci-e expansion systems?
1878 2011-07-15 14:23:12 <gmaxwell> There will be more.
1879 2011-07-15 14:23:16 <senseles> the people who make them charge a lot
1880 2011-07-15 14:23:16 <BlueMatt> bliket_: the case
1881 2011-07-15 14:23:17 <bliket_> why are they at least $1500?
1882 2011-07-15 14:23:32 <bliket_> i think i should buy one and copy the PCB
1883 2011-07-15 14:23:35 <IO-> dell makes one so $$$ you have to call a rep
1884 2011-07-15 14:23:37 <senseles> do it
1885 2011-07-15 14:23:40 <senseles> ill buy clones from you
1886 2011-07-15 14:23:56 <senseles> just make sure to space the slot for double height/width cards
1887 2011-07-15 14:24:03 <IO-> ya!
1888 2011-07-15 14:24:06 <senseles> 8 slots per pcie should be sufficient
1889 2011-07-15 14:24:14 <IO-> i hope its out in production before asic is cheap enough
1890 2011-07-15 14:24:25 Graphane has left ()
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1892 2011-07-15 14:24:57 blishchrot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1893 2011-07-15 14:24:58 Kobier has joined
1894 2011-07-15 14:25:24 <bliket_> The EB7-X8G2-RAS is an expansion chassis in 4U height that provides 7 full-length PCI Express slots. These chassis can be daisy-chained while giving up one usable slot per chassis excepting for the last one in the chain. The total number of PCI Express slots derived will be determined by the number of root complex ports supported by the Host.
1895 2011-07-15 14:25:33 blishchrot has joined
1896 2011-07-15 14:26:05 <senseles> so what does that mean
1897 2011-07-15 14:26:08 <senseles> 128 cards per slot?
1898 2011-07-15 14:26:17 <bliket_> not sure
1899 2011-07-15 14:26:28 <IO-> 7 single slot PCIe cards per case I think
1900 2011-07-15 14:26:30 <bliket_> how about those pci to pci-e converters
1901 2011-07-15 14:26:36 <bliket_> has anyone used one before?
1902 2011-07-15 14:26:41 <senseles> ive heard of pcie to pci
1903 2011-07-15 14:26:44 <senseles> but not pci to pcie
1904 2011-07-15 14:26:52 <bliket_> https://cablesaurus.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=21&zenid=30179449d8e11f96c4e11e33ac73c85c
1905 2011-07-15 14:26:52 Blojack has joined
1906 2011-07-15 14:26:54 <IO-> they exist but i haven't tried em
1907 2011-07-15 14:26:55 <bliket_> click
1908 2011-07-15 14:27:10 minus has quit (Quit: Bye)
1909 2011-07-15 14:27:32 stalled has joined
1910 2011-07-15 14:27:35 minus has joined
1911 2011-07-15 14:28:08 <senseles> cool stuff
1912 2011-07-15 14:28:22 IO- is now known as IO-afk
1913 2011-07-15 14:28:39 <bliket_> here is a cheaper one: http://cgi.ebay.com/150619756121
1914 2011-07-15 14:28:55 <bliket_> same thing, just not the cablesaurus tax
1915 2011-07-15 14:29:50 <bliket_> whoever made that pci to pci-e converter card must be smart enough to make a pci-e expander
1916 2011-07-15 14:30:04 <bliket_> that doesnt cost $1500-$5000
1917 2011-07-15 14:30:38 jandd has joined
1918 2011-07-15 14:31:18 minus has quit (Client Quit)
1919 2011-07-15 14:31:20 <gmaxwell> In any case, the existing drivers (closed source) only allow 8 GPUs iirc.
1920 2011-07-15 14:31:36 minus has joined
1921 2011-07-15 14:32:04 <bliket_> not true
1922 2011-07-15 14:32:11 <bliket_> i drove to magma and i taked with the guy
1923 2011-07-15 14:32:16 <Blojack> bliket_:   Google about for the mod to add a pci card to a macmini
1924 2011-07-15 14:32:17 <bliket_> he says unlimited gpus in linux
1925 2011-07-15 14:32:19 ville-_ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1926 2011-07-15 14:32:25 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1927 2011-07-15 14:32:49 <bliket_> Apple - Mac mini - The most affordable, energy-efficient Mac.
1928 2011-07-15 14:33:25 <Blojack> They had some interesting discussion About pci stuff
1929 2011-07-15 14:34:35 <Blojack> It seem applicable because you don't need a lot of bus bandwidth
1930 2011-07-15 14:34:38 <gmaxwell> bliket_: well, I could test that easily enough.
1931 2011-07-15 14:34:54 copumpkin has joined
1932 2011-07-15 14:36:05 <Blojack> They had some good alternatives to magma stuff
1933 2011-07-15 14:36:59 <Blojack> I found the discussion looking for magma alternatives
1934 2011-07-15 14:38:14 <Joric> pci-e to pcmcia adapter might be an interesting solution
1935 2011-07-15 14:38:19 <Joric> http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4H.html
1936 2011-07-15 14:38:25 <Joric> i've seen that on ebay once
1937 2011-07-15 14:39:26 <bliket_> whoa nice
1938 2011-07-15 14:39:41 <bliket_> we need to be able to connect our graphics cards with USB
1939 2011-07-15 14:39:44 <bliket_> :D
1940 2011-07-15 14:39:53 <bliket_> why dont we make an adapter PCI-E to USB?
1941 2011-07-15 14:40:00 <bliket_> for like max $100
1942 2011-07-15 14:40:08 <bliket_> we could use any motherboard
1943 2011-07-15 14:40:16 <bliket_> and we'd have external power
1944 2011-07-15 14:40:20 <Joric> file that idea to those chinese
1945 2011-07-15 14:40:20 <bliket_> and a USB hub
1946 2011-07-15 14:40:35 <bliket_> i don't have a contact with the chinese
1947 2011-07-15 14:41:50 minus has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1948 2011-07-15 14:42:19 quellhorst has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1949 2011-07-15 14:42:36 superman2016 has joined
1950 2011-07-15 14:42:40 karnac has joined
1951 2011-07-15 14:42:49 minus has joined
1952 2011-07-15 14:43:06 <Joric> mac mini has a pcmcia port intended to hold the
1953 2011-07-15 14:43:07 <Joric> airport extreme card
1954 2011-07-15 14:43:44 <senseles> i like the USB idea
1955 2011-07-15 14:43:53 <senseles> use a giant USB hub
1956 2011-07-15 14:44:00 <senseles> with external enclosures
1957 2011-07-15 14:44:01 <Joric> oh no sorry, it's either prorprietary or minipci
1958 2011-07-15 14:44:31 freakazoid has joined
1959 2011-07-15 14:45:07 <Blojack> Yea they were running pci through airport slot
1960 2011-07-15 14:45:42 <D0han> anyone tried to ask AMD for GPU-like card, with less memory and more parallelization?
1961 2011-07-15 14:45:43 <Joric> there ARE usb to pcmcia adapters not sure the whole thing would work though
1962 2011-07-15 14:45:43 <Blojack> Nope it works with mini
1963 2011-07-15 14:46:03 <D0han> much better for calculations, less expensive than graphic cards
1964 2011-07-15 14:46:40 <senseles> so usb -> pcmcia -> pci-e card?
1965 2011-07-15 14:46:44 <senseles> would still need an external box
1966 2011-07-15 14:46:47 <senseles> and most are too expensive
1967 2011-07-15 14:46:53 <bliket_> usb <-> pci-e
1968 2011-07-15 14:46:57 <bliket_> we need this
1969 2011-07-15 14:47:06 <Joric> adapter costs 80 bucks
1970 2011-07-15 14:47:15 <Joric> pci-e adapter
1971 2011-07-15 14:48:13 <Blojack> Seriously all this has been hashed out for macminis
1972 2011-07-15 14:48:16 <bliket_> so per graphics card you would need 1) usb <-> pci-e and also 2) 1 power supply (like a laptop power supply) per card to run the pci-e external and internal power
1973 2011-07-15 14:48:46 <bliket_> what is the limit for max usb devices?
1974 2011-07-15 14:49:15 <BlueMatt> it would be really funny if the next rev of nvidia gpus has a one-clock rotate op to get better at mining :)
1975 2011-07-15 14:49:21 glassresistor has joined
1976 2011-07-15 14:49:30 <bliket_> A USB network is built from USB hubs connected downstream to USB ports, which themselves may stem from USB hubs. USB hubs can extend a USB network to a maximum of 127 ports.
1977 2011-07-15 14:49:58 <senseles> is that 127 additional ports
1978 2011-07-15 14:49:59 <senseles> from the base
1979 2011-07-15 14:50:02 <senseles> or 127 ports total
1980 2011-07-15 14:50:08 <bliket_> per host controller
1981 2011-07-15 14:50:09 <senseles> so if you have 2 usb controllers on board with 4 ports each
1982 2011-07-15 14:50:11 <senseles> ah
1983 2011-07-15 14:50:14 <bliket_> and a mobo has many host controllers
1984 2011-07-15 14:50:21 <senseles> so it would be possible to just buy pci or pcie usb controllers
1985 2011-07-15 14:50:25 <senseles> and slap 127 video cards per
1986 2011-07-15 14:50:33 <bliket_> you could mine on your laptop with 127 video cards per host controller
1987 2011-07-15 14:50:38 <Blojack> Are there any nvidia folks involved
1988 2011-07-15 14:51:16 <senseles> i still like the idea of the external pcie board clone
1989 2011-07-15 14:51:26 <senseles> just need the board with a small mounting system to reduce cost
1990 2011-07-15 14:51:27 <bliket_> doesnt a good motherboard have like 8 host controllers
1991 2011-07-15 14:51:40 <senseles> for usb? i doubt it
1992 2011-07-15 14:51:40 <Blojack> Joked before that intel should have a bitcoin mining spot on next chip
1993 2011-07-15 14:52:00 <BlueMatt> we are way, way too small a community for any hardware to change for us
1994 2011-07-15 14:52:24 <bliket_> there would be a pretty big market for a PCI-E to USB dongle
1995 2011-07-15 14:52:34 <senseles> bliket, so when are you going to design an external pcie enclosure
1996 2011-07-15 14:52:36 <bliket_> I mean, I could probably sell like 20-100 per day
1997 2011-07-15 14:52:38 <BlueMatt> no there wouldnt
1998 2011-07-15 14:52:47 <BlueMatt> usb is way, way too slow
1999 2011-07-15 14:52:51 <bliket_> to just people in this channel
2000 2011-07-15 14:52:53 <senseles> i need a 50$ enclosure including psu for 1x 150watt card
2001 2011-07-15 14:52:54 <BlueMatt> if you want external pcie go thunderboolt
2002 2011-07-15 14:53:00 <BlueMatt> it is, by definition external pcie
2003 2011-07-15 14:53:05 <bliket_> USB is way too slow for bitcoin mining?
2004 2011-07-15 14:53:10 <Joric> they probably would name that nvidia-bisla
2005 2011-07-15 14:53:15 <senseles> usb bandwidth should be fine
2006 2011-07-15 14:53:16 <Joric> *bitsla
2007 2011-07-15 14:53:21 <senseles> if its only 70 bytes of data a second
2008 2011-07-15 14:53:22 <BlueMatt> bliket_: no, but bitcoin mining is not a target market, its too smal
2009 2011-07-15 14:53:33 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2010 2011-07-15 14:53:43 Guest6766 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2011 2011-07-15 14:53:53 <senseles> usb2 is what, 100mbyte/s?
2012 2011-07-15 14:54:06 <BlueMatt> no
2013 2011-07-15 14:54:20 <senseles> 60mbyte
2014 2011-07-15 14:54:30 <erska_> 60mbytes/s theoretical, in practice maybe around half of that
2015 2011-07-15 14:54:37 <BlueMatt> yea
2016 2011-07-15 14:54:39 <Joric> http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2010/11/15/announcing-cluster-gpu-instances-for-amazon-ec2/
2017 2011-07-15 14:54:41 Gonzago has joined
2018 2011-07-15 14:54:51 <BlueMatt> Joric: really, old and nvidia
2019 2011-07-15 14:55:43 <bliket_> so you are saying we would need more then 60mbytes/s for bitcoin mining?
2020 2011-07-15 14:55:50 <senseles> no
2021 2011-07-15 14:55:52 <senseles> it should be fine
2022 2011-07-15 14:55:56 <senseles> even for over 100 cards
2023 2011-07-15 14:56:05 <BlueMatt> no, Im saying no one will make a product for bitcoin mining
2024 2011-07-15 14:56:14 <BlueMatt> unless they are the miner
2025 2011-07-15 14:57:15 <BlueMatt> ;;seen ArtForz
2026 2011-07-15 14:57:16 <gribble> ArtForz was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 4 weeks, 2 days, 16 hours, 37 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <ArtForz> eternal beta. hah, satoshi is secretly a google employee!
2027 2011-07-15 14:57:16 <senseles> would be really nice to have over 100 gpus on one machine
2028 2011-07-15 14:57:21 <Joric> BlueMatt, and it costs $2.10/hour for two nvidia teslas :)
2029 2011-07-15 14:57:30 <bliket_> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/861/mafiaiiint.jpg/
2030 2011-07-15 14:58:07 <BlueMatt> Joric: yea you lose a ton of money mining on amazon
2031 2011-07-15 14:58:22 <BlueMatt> bliket_: yes, therea re some usb gpus and those would work fine
2032 2011-07-15 14:58:27 <BlueMatt> s/would/should/
2033 2011-07-15 14:58:35 <bliket_> that isnt usb
2034 2011-07-15 14:58:40 <BlueMatt> you could also use thunderboolt
2035 2011-07-15 14:58:51 <BlueMatt> thunderbolt is, by definition, pcie over cable
2036 2011-07-15 14:59:56 <bliket_> how many pci-e cards does thumderbolt support?
2037 2011-07-15 15:00:09 <senseles> when i do a google for thunderbolt
2038 2011-07-15 15:00:12 <senseles> i get comics and cell phones
2039 2011-07-15 15:00:13 <BlueMatt> no clue, I think you should be able to get quite a few
2040 2011-07-15 15:00:23 <BlueMatt> yea, you would have to make your own stuff for tunderbolt
2041 2011-07-15 15:00:31 SISUbtcX has joined
2042 2011-07-15 15:00:33 <senseles> nvm found it
2043 2011-07-15 15:00:33 <BlueMatt> its so new all they sell is some nas boxes
2044 2011-07-15 15:00:47 <bliket_> Daisy chain 	Yes, up to 7 devices[3]
2045 2011-07-15 15:00:53 <bliket_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_%28interface%29
2046 2011-07-15 15:01:15 <bliket_> but it's apple
2047 2011-07-15 15:01:22 <bliket_> and I hate that faggot steve jobs
2048 2011-07-15 15:01:29 <BlueMatt> no, its intel
2049 2011-07-15 15:01:30 <bliket_> moving on...
2050 2011-07-15 15:01:41 <BlueMatt> apple just happens to be the only hardware mfgr who supports it
2051 2011-07-15 15:01:55 Blojack has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
2052 2011-07-15 15:02:01 <bliket_> As of July 2011, the first two meter Thunderbolt cable from Apple costs US$49.00. [32] It is an active cable, and includes circuitry inside the cable.
2053 2011-07-15 15:02:01 <BlueMatt> lol hate steve jobs
2054 2011-07-15 15:02:23 <BlueMatt> you have to admit steve jobs is one of, if not the best, ceo of any tech company out there
2055 2011-07-15 15:03:03 <bliket_> apple will have to pry $49 from my cold dead hands
2056 2011-07-15 15:03:13 <BlueMatt> lol, why the apple hate?
2057 2011-07-15 15:03:27 <bliket_> everyone knows only faries use macs
2058 2011-07-15 15:03:38 <bliket_> fairies*
2059 2011-07-15 15:03:41 <BlueMatt> you have to admit they have damn good hardware
2060 2011-07-15 15:03:44 <BlueMatt> that no one can deny
2061 2011-07-15 15:03:53 <BlueMatt> and if you do, you are lying to yourself
2062 2011-07-15 15:04:00 <bliket_> yeah too bad everybody uses the same hardware as well
2063 2011-07-15 15:04:09 wardearia has joined
2064 2011-07-15 15:04:14 WakiMiko_ has joined
2065 2011-07-15 15:04:18 <BlueMatt> no, their enclosures, etc
2066 2011-07-15 15:04:22 <bliket_> back when they were using powerpc they at least were unique
2067 2011-07-15 15:04:24 <BlueMatt> great screens
2068 2011-07-15 15:04:31 <bliket_> they don't make screens
2069 2011-07-15 15:04:37 <BlueMatt> yes they do
2070 2011-07-15 15:04:39 <bliket_> but they do have nice cases, i'll give them that
2071 2011-07-15 15:04:47 <BlueMatt> and some of the best batteries
2072 2011-07-15 15:04:53 <BlueMatt> though nonremoveable
2073 2011-07-15 15:04:54 sipa has joined
2074 2011-07-15 15:04:55 <bliket_> I had to buy replacement screens from ebay and they all say samsung
2075 2011-07-15 15:05:07 <Joric> looks like github becomes as slow as sourceforge :( got a few request timeouts recently
2076 2011-07-15 15:05:10 <bliket_> apple isn't a LCD making company
2077 2011-07-15 15:05:16 <BlueMatt> they dont make lcds
2078 2011-07-15 15:05:27 <BlueMatt> but they make the monitor in total
2079 2011-07-15 15:05:31 <bliket_> apple doesn't make anything other then cases and software on a macintosh
2080 2011-07-15 15:05:37 <BlueMatt> thats bs
2081 2011-07-15 15:05:43 <bliket_> not bs
2082 2011-07-15 15:05:48 <Wuked> aren't all mac batteries replaceable ?
2083 2011-07-15 15:05:51 <bliket_> not even the motherboard is made by them
2084 2011-07-15 15:05:55 <BlueMatt> Wuked: not even close
2085 2011-07-15 15:06:05 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
2086 2011-07-15 15:06:06 <Wuked> what device can't you change it in ?
2087 2011-07-15 15:06:08 <BlueMatt> bliket_: what other computer mfgr makes mobos?
2088 2011-07-15 15:06:15 <phantomcircuit> bliket_, they design the motherboard actually
2089 2011-07-15 15:06:21 <Wuked> everything I've read says you can take it to the store and they will intall a new battery for you
2090 2011-07-15 15:06:21 <gmaxwell> well no one you know 'makes' anything— you always contract out to manufacturing companies...
2091 2011-07-15 15:06:22 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2092 2011-07-15 15:06:25 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: no they contract other people to design mobos
2093 2011-07-15 15:06:28 <BlueMatt> but I count that
2094 2011-07-15 15:06:29 darkskiez has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2095 2011-07-15 15:06:30 <Wuked> even for "closed" devices
2096 2011-07-15 15:06:33 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, same diff
2097 2011-07-15 15:06:51 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: exactly
2098 2011-07-15 15:07:07 <Joric> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_liquid_crystal_display_manufacturers includes apple
2099 2011-07-15 15:07:07 <bliket_> just because apple contacts other people out to make their mobo doesn't mean apple makes the mobo, same with the batteries screens cpu hard drive etc.
2100 2011-07-15 15:07:09 <BlueMatt> I count apple as the mfgr of the mobos in their laptops even though they dont make them, but they pay for the design
2101 2011-07-15 15:07:10 <BlueMatt> so...
2102 2011-07-15 15:07:23 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2103 2011-07-15 15:07:31 <senseles> bliket so when is your expansion chassis gonna be done? :/
2104 2011-07-15 15:07:32 <ersi> Uh, most Apple devices you can change the batteries pretty easily
2105 2011-07-15 15:07:36 <ersi> there's just a few "bad apples"
2106 2011-07-15 15:07:38 <Wuked> how far do you go down the chain then bliket_ ?
2107 2011-07-15 15:07:47 <ersi> Sure, it's not slot-out slot-in..
2108 2011-07-15 15:07:48 <bliket_> senseles, wait a second, someone is wrong on the internet
2109 2011-07-15 15:07:57 <BlueMatt> ersi: no, you have to take them apart with a screw driver, I dont count that
2110 2011-07-15 15:08:15 <senseles> the reason apple sucks is because it's just a fancy case with a logo on a custom xwindows interface
2111 2011-07-15 15:08:19 <bliket_> http://xkcd.com/386/
2112 2011-07-15 15:08:21 <Wuked> does the mobo manufacture not make the mobo because they don't make all the chips on it?
2113 2011-07-15 15:08:25 <ersi> BlueMatt: Meh
2114 2011-07-15 15:08:38 <BlueMatt> ersi: more specifically, it voids your warranty
2115 2011-07-15 15:08:39 <ersi> BlueMatt: they're still quite easy to change
2116 2011-07-15 15:08:39 <senseles> the reason apple users suck is because they buy into the hype making them some of the most difficult users to deal with for uspport
2117 2011-07-15 15:08:49 <ersi> BlueMatt: Oh yes, *that* however.
2118 2011-07-15 15:08:54 <Wuked> BlueMatt: If you take it to the store it doesn't
2119 2011-07-15 15:08:59 <Wuked> they will repalce the battery for you
2120 2011-07-15 15:09:04 <ersi> BlueMatt: Then again.. if you're replacing the battery.. "most likely" it's out of your warranty-period
2121 2011-07-15 15:09:04 <BlueMatt> senseles: that can be true sometimes, but isnt as much a rule as it used to be
2122 2011-07-15 15:09:19 <Joric> apple doesn't suck apart from their prices, well, not more than sony
2123 2011-07-15 15:09:20 <senseles> i welcome you to provide support for my users for a few weeks
2124 2011-07-15 15:09:28 <BlueMatt> ersi: change your battery when it runs out on a plane...not gonna work
2125 2011-07-15 15:09:48 <Wuked> senseles: my experience is the exact opposite
2126 2011-07-15 15:09:50 <BlueMatt> senseles: I wouldnt do support to save my life...
2127 2011-07-15 15:09:52 <Wuked> I wish all our customers used mac
2128 2011-07-15 15:10:04 <Wuked> that would be easy to support
2129 2011-07-15 15:10:13 <ersi> BlueMatt: And how many is doing.. that. I bet you'd be raped in security with an extra notebook battery
2130 2011-07-15 15:10:21 <senseles> one thing i like about OSX users
2131 2011-07-15 15:10:25 <BlueMatt> ersi: lol are you kidding me?
2132 2011-07-15 15:10:28 <senseles> is they pay my 20$ remote installation fee
2133 2011-07-15 15:10:39 <BlueMatt> ersi: I do it, and why the hell would security care?
2134 2011-07-15 15:10:53 <gmaxwell> So. Bitcoin.
2135 2011-07-15 15:10:57 <ersi> BlueMatt: No, I don't have any idea on how many does that. I've never seen one have a spare battery for their notebook
2136 2011-07-15 15:11:06 <gmaxwell> How is encrypted wallet working for people?
2137 2011-07-15 15:11:10 <BlueMatt> ersi: find me an i7 which runs through a 8 hour plane flight followed back-to-back by a 5 hour one
2138 2011-07-15 15:11:36 <bliket_> lol $20 remote installation fee for what?
2139 2011-07-15 15:11:53 <Joric> gmaxwell, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/407
2140 2011-07-15 15:11:59 <senseles> for someone to login and setup software on their computer
2141 2011-07-15 15:12:01 <ersi> BlueMatt: Find me a car that gets me 100 miles on a tank that carries fuel for 50 miles?
2142 2011-07-15 15:12:18 <BlueMatt> ersi: the difference is I can pull it off, you cant
2143 2011-07-15 15:12:30 <bliket_> BlueMatt: Find me a car that drives over 9000 miles on 1 gallon of gas
2144 2011-07-15 15:12:47 <BlueMatt> bliket_: different because I cant refil in the middle, but can easily bring along a second tank
2145 2011-07-15 15:12:50 <ersi> BlueMatt: I got an "ultra slim" notebook just so I can get that amount of time on my notebook
2146 2011-07-15 15:12:52 <BlueMatt> whereas apples cant
2147 2011-07-15 15:13:02 <ersi> BlueMatt: then again.. I could have a spare notebook battery :D
2148 2011-07-15 15:13:06 <BlueMatt> and can you compile and code on said notebook?
2149 2011-07-15 15:13:35 <bliket_> can apple users even ru 5830s 6870s or 6970s or 6990s?
2150 2011-07-15 15:13:38 <bliket_> run*
2151 2011-07-15 15:14:01 <bliket_> do apple users even run their computers without a case?
2152 2011-07-15 15:14:14 <bliket_> apple users are very mysterious to me...
2153 2011-07-15 15:14:20 <Wuked> macbook air last about 7 hours of coding on a flight
2154 2011-07-15 15:14:35 <Wuked> if you can do that much coding on a flight then i salute you :)
2155 2011-07-15 15:14:53 <bliket_> I used to love mac os 9, that was the coolest os in the word, but I was about 6 at the time
2156 2011-07-15 15:14:56 <gmaxwell> Speaking of mac— where is 0.3.24 for mac?
2157 2011-07-15 15:15:01 <BlueMatt> Wuked: what the hell else am I supposed to be doing?
2158 2011-07-15 15:15:22 <Wuked> having a break ? :)
2159 2011-07-15 15:15:27 <BlueMatt> Wuked: and 7 hours isnt enough if you fly from germany to california
2160 2011-07-15 15:16:16 <Wuked> I use flights as an excuse not to use the computer
2161 2011-07-15 15:16:22 <Wuked> sometimes watch a film on it
2162 2011-07-15 15:16:29 <BlueMatt> well I do that too...
2163 2011-07-15 15:16:38 <BlueMatt> whatever, its nice to have that kind of battery if you need it
2164 2011-07-15 15:16:49 <Wuked> yeah
2165 2011-07-15 15:16:52 <bliket_> why dont you just use a low power cpu?
2166 2011-07-15 15:17:00 PwnusMaximus has joined
2167 2011-07-15 15:17:05 <BlueMatt> because I want to be able to compile in some sane amount of time
2168 2011-07-15 15:17:23 <gmaxwell> "Stop using C++?"
2169 2011-07-15 15:17:28 Blojack has joined
2170 2011-07-15 15:17:39 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: recoding bitcoin might take a while...
2171 2011-07-15 15:18:03 <gmaxwell> Think of all the compiling time you'll save? :)
2172 2011-07-15 15:18:11 <BlueMatt> true...
2173 2011-07-15 15:19:07 <ersi> BlueMatt: Sure, I guess it'll take a while though ;)
2174 2011-07-15 15:19:41 <ersi> lol at "having a break" on a plane
2175 2011-07-15 15:19:50 <ersi> that's just no resting place
2176 2011-07-15 15:20:11 <gmaxwell> ersi: on international flights— fly business class. :)
2177 2011-07-15 15:20:16 <Joric> i used to write iphone games in 2008-2011, it's quite uncomfortable to debug game logic on a mac luckily the only thing you really need there is to build/upload the final version of the app
2178 2011-07-15 15:20:34 Marf has joined
2179 2011-07-15 15:20:52 <ersi> I dunno, but something about taking half the freaking day and being trapped in a flying metal tube up with hundreds of people make me a little uneasy or restless
2180 2011-07-15 15:20:59 <BlueMatt> ersi: if you are flying 10 hours, not fyling business is not an option
2181 2011-07-15 15:21:02 <ersi> I guess that'd be valid if I'd move to biz class
2182 2011-07-15 15:21:17 <ersi> BlueMatt: Heh, I guess
2183 2011-07-15 15:22:02 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, fly economy and spend half the difference on booze
2184 2011-07-15 15:22:02 quellhorst has joined
2185 2011-07-15 15:22:13 <senseles> bliket, did you make the expansion chassis yet?
2186 2011-07-15 15:22:18 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: lol that works too
2187 2011-07-15 15:22:19 <senseles> can i buy one now? :/
2188 2011-07-15 15:22:24 <gmaxwell> ugh. I end up dehydrated on planes already, adding booze wouldn'thelp.
2189 2011-07-15 15:22:29 <gmaxwell> I feel sick thinking about it.
2190 2011-07-15 15:23:01 <gmaxwell> Speaking of travel, Anyone else here going to be at IETF in Quebec?
2191 2011-07-15 15:23:11 <bliket_> fuck canada
2192 2011-07-15 15:23:22 <bliket_> no senseles
2193 2011-07-15 15:23:24 <Wuked> I always get free G+Ts on the plane ;)
2194 2011-07-15 15:23:25 <BlueMatt> bliket_: is there anything you do like?
2195 2011-07-15 15:23:28 <bliket_> i am figuring it out
2196 2011-07-15 15:23:49 <[Tycho]> Flying business class ? Who would do that...
2197 2011-07-15 15:24:13 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: you dont make many long flights do you?
2198 2011-07-15 15:24:21 <[Tycho]> I do.
2199 2011-07-15 15:24:41 <gmaxwell> On long international flights... its the only way to be functional when you land.
2200 2011-07-15 15:24:51 <BlueMatt> exactly
2201 2011-07-15 15:24:53 <[Tycho]> Actually I never traveled on a plane less than 10 hours.
2202 2011-07-15 15:25:07 <[Tycho]> But the price diffrence is like 5 times or so.
2203 2011-07-15 15:25:19 kermit has joined
2204 2011-07-15 15:25:24 <BlueMatt> so?
2205 2011-07-15 15:25:26 <lfm> when someone else is paying
2206 2011-07-15 15:25:27 <Wuked> you fly business when someone else foots the bill
2207 2011-07-15 15:25:36 <BlueMatt> you kind of have to sleep on a internation flight
2208 2011-07-15 15:25:38 <BlueMatt> al
2209 2011-07-15 15:25:47 <BlueMatt> and to do that it has to be business
2210 2011-07-15 15:25:48 <bliket_> i am going to call it a night
2211 2011-07-15 15:25:49 <senseles> i got stuck in coach for 24 hours
2212 2011-07-15 15:25:49 <Wuked> and a lot of people get upgraded
2213 2011-07-15 15:25:55 <senseles> when flying from cincinnati to philippines
2214 2011-07-15 15:25:58 <Wuked> frequent flyers
2215 2011-07-15 15:26:04 <[Tycho]> What stops you from sleeping in economy class ?
2216 2011-07-15 15:26:06 * BlueMatt gets upgraded, though not for international
2217 2011-07-15 15:26:07 <senseles> when you're on a plane that long it's worth the upgrade
2218 2011-07-15 15:26:14 <senseles> people around you
2219 2011-07-15 15:26:21 <senseles> i had to get drunk to sleep
2220 2011-07-15 15:26:21 <BlueMatt> [Tycho]: the seats?
2221 2011-07-15 15:26:32 <Wuked> it depends what value you put on being refreshed when you land
2222 2011-07-15 15:26:49 <Wuked> london -> NY is like £400 normal, and like £2000? business
2223 2011-07-15 15:26:49 <senseles> business class is ftw
2224 2011-07-15 15:26:51 <gmaxwell> It's usually not a 5x price difference in my expirence. And if you use airline miles to upgrade it's usually not all that costly.
2225 2011-07-15 15:26:52 <wasabi2> I see nothing wrong with getting drunk on an airplane.
2226 2011-07-15 15:27:14 <BlueMatt> wasabi1: you are one of the dicks that keeps everyone else from sleeping
2227 2011-07-15 15:27:30 <[Tycho]> Moscow - Hanoi is like 220 Euro economy and 1000 Euro business.
2228 2011-07-15 15:27:35 <ersi> BlueMatt: By the way, going to Chaos Camp?
2229 2011-07-15 15:27:45 <BlueMatt> chaos camp?
2230 2011-07-15 15:27:59 <BlueMatt> no, Im not
2231 2011-07-15 15:28:09 <Wuked> [Tycho]:  Surely deepbit has its own aeroplane by now ?? :P
2232 2011-07-15 15:28:15 <ersi> BlueMatt: http://events.ccc.de/camp/2011/Home/
2233 2011-07-15 15:28:18 <ersi> BlueMatt: Ah, 'k.
2234 2011-07-15 15:28:22 <BlueMatt> you?
2235 2011-07-15 15:28:30 <ersi> Yeah, I'm going
2236 2011-07-15 15:28:34 <ersi> Flying from .SE
2237 2011-07-15 15:28:55 <gmaxwell> Someone ought to be presenting on bitcoin at events like that.
2238 2011-07-15 15:29:38 AnatolV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2239 2011-07-15 15:30:52 <BlueMatt> ersi: sounds fun
2240 2011-07-15 15:31:05 <ersi> I guess the call for talks is over
2241 2011-07-15 15:31:20 <BlueMatt> by now it has to be
2242 2011-07-15 15:31:24 <ersi> maybe there's time to apply for a "Lightning talk" (short 5min talk)
2243 2011-07-15 15:31:37 pixglen has quit (Quit: pixglen)
2244 2011-07-15 15:32:14 <bliket_> hey
2245 2011-07-15 15:32:16 <bliket_> senseles
2246 2011-07-15 15:32:17 <bliket_> http://cgi.ebay.com/290586984169
2247 2011-07-15 15:32:17 uzyn has joined
2248 2011-07-15 15:32:22 <bliket_> what is this?
2249 2011-07-15 15:33:42 <bliket_> is this what i think it is
2250 2011-07-15 15:33:51 <BlueMatt> yes
2251 2011-07-15 15:33:55 <BlueMatt> have fun finding a case
2252 2011-07-15 15:34:02 <bliket_> I dont need a case
2253 2011-07-15 15:34:04 <bliket_> and I never will
2254 2011-07-15 15:34:10 <bliket_> I know how to make frames out of wood
2255 2011-07-15 15:34:11 <bliket_> and I do
2256 2011-07-15 15:34:12 <BlueMatt> have fun fitting more than one gpu
2257 2011-07-15 15:34:24 <BlueMatt> in a computer with a ton of those
2258 2011-07-15 15:34:25 <bliket_> have you heard of pci-e riser cables?
2259 2011-07-15 15:34:33 <senseles> it's an expander card for a dell server
2260 2011-07-15 15:34:39 <senseles> you can by flexible riser cables
2261 2011-07-15 15:34:41 <senseles> on amazon
2262 2011-07-15 15:34:43 <senseles> for like 20$ each
2263 2011-07-15 15:34:54 <BlueMatt> but there is a limit to the length of risers you can have on a slot
2264 2011-07-15 15:34:56 <Joric> we need the same but with like 10 slots :)
2265 2011-07-15 15:34:59 <BlueMatt> and once you add that splitter...
2266 2011-07-15 15:35:01 <bliket_> BlueMatt, can you ignore me? you never contribute anything good to what i have to say
2267 2011-07-15 15:35:08 <UukGoblin> senseles, wood isn't great for heat dissipation
2268 2011-07-15 15:35:19 <senseles> wood?
2269 2011-07-15 15:35:31 <bliket_> you mean me
2270 2011-07-15 15:35:34 <bliket_> he meant me
2271 2011-07-15 15:35:34 <UukGoblin> oh sorry I meant bliket_
2272 2011-07-15 15:35:37 <UukGoblin> yeah
2273 2011-07-15 15:35:43 <Joric> well, 8 slots, as the existing closed source drivers only allow 8 GPU's
2274 2011-07-15 15:35:48 <senseles> why not just use aluminum
2275 2011-07-15 15:35:50 <bliket_> yeah it doesnt matter
2276 2011-07-15 15:35:52 <bliket_> I use wood and it works good for me
2277 2011-07-15 15:35:56 <BlueMatt> bliket_: Id say telling you to keep in mind the size of the space you have to keep the gpus is quite useful...
2278 2011-07-15 15:36:06 <UukGoblin> mhm
2279 2011-07-15 15:36:07 karnac has joined
2280 2011-07-15 15:36:07 <bliket_> because it was easier to make it with wood
2281 2011-07-15 15:36:12 <UukGoblin> I have one box with wood and it works too
2282 2011-07-15 15:36:14 <UukGoblin> yeah
2283 2011-07-15 15:36:27 <bliket_> it been running for a month perfectly with a couple pieces of wood
2284 2011-07-15 15:36:59 <Joric> http://www.bitcoinminingaccidents.com read carefully :)
2285 2011-07-15 15:37:11 <bliket_> Bitcoin Miner Wets His Bed wtf?
2286 2011-07-15 15:37:22 <devrandom> hi BlueMatt
2287 2011-07-15 15:37:30 <BlueMatt> devrandom: whats up?
2288 2011-07-15 15:37:47 <devrandom> I'm going to look into building wxWidgets separately
2289 2011-07-15 15:38:06 <BlueMatt> Joric: wtf?
2290 2011-07-15 15:38:11 pixglen has joined
2291 2011-07-15 15:38:23 pixglen has quit (Client Quit)
2292 2011-07-15 15:38:32 <gmaxwell> Btw the 3 way splitter I mentioned before: http://www.amfeltec.com/products/x1pcie-splitter3.php  but its more expensive than I recalled. :-/
2293 2011-07-15 15:38:40 <bliket_> oh shit
2294 2011-07-15 15:38:41 <bliket_> thanks
2295 2011-07-15 15:39:22 <devrandom> BlueMatt: it's annoying having to build everything each run
2296 2011-07-15 15:39:26 <gmaxwell> They appear to have a 4 way now too.
2297 2011-07-15 15:39:41 <BlueMatt> if you have to "request a quote" you probably dont want to...
2298 2011-07-15 15:39:50 <BlueMatt> shouldnt be that expensive though
2299 2011-07-15 15:40:08 <bliket_> well so how about this part from dell that I mentioned earlier? http://cgi.ebay.com/290586984169
2300 2011-07-15 15:40:48 <BlueMatt> that looks like pci on the card, not pcie...
2301 2011-07-15 15:40:51 <bliket_> $48 is pretty cheap
2302 2011-07-15 15:41:00 <bliket_> the title says DELL R557C POWEREDGE R710 PCI-E EXPANSION CARD RISER
2303 2011-07-15 15:41:06 <BlueMatt> I know what it says
2304 2011-07-15 15:41:14 <BlueMatt> but doesnt that look like pci to you?
2305 2011-07-15 15:41:21 <bliket_> I think they are x4 or x8 slots
2306 2011-07-15 15:41:24 <BlueMatt> in any case, that should work
2307 2011-07-15 15:42:04 <BlueMatt> but youll have to buy flexible risers
2308 2011-07-15 15:42:06 <BlueMatt> long ones
2309 2011-07-15 15:42:24 <BlueMatt> no, those look like pci...
2310 2011-07-15 15:42:44 <bliket_> http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-PowerEdge-R710-PCIe-Riser-Card-R557C-/110524930514
2311 2011-07-15 15:42:44 <BlueMatt> http://gudlyf.com/media/mobo_sm.jpg
2312 2011-07-15 15:42:54 <bliket_> Slot1 PCIe_G2_X4  Slot2 PCI-eG2_X4
2313 2011-07-15 15:42:54 AStove has joined
2314 2011-07-15 15:43:02 <BlueMatt> odd
2315 2011-07-15 15:43:08 <bliket_> yeah turns out
2316 2011-07-15 15:43:12 <bliket_> you are wrong again
2317 2011-07-15 15:43:16 <bliket_> they are pci-e x4
2318 2011-07-15 15:43:21 <BlueMatt> no those things on the hardware are not x4
2319 2011-07-15 15:43:22 <bliket_> everytime you say something
2320 2011-07-15 15:43:25 <BlueMatt> if anything they are x8
2321 2011-07-15 15:43:26 <bliket_> you turn out to be wrong
2322 2011-07-15 15:43:35 <bliket_> PCI-eG2_X4
2323 2011-07-15 15:43:45 <BlueMatt> go look at a picture of a x4 slot
2324 2011-07-15 15:43:59 <BlueMatt> google image search pcie x4
2325 2011-07-15 15:44:02 <BlueMatt> those are not x4
2326 2011-07-15 15:44:22 <gmaxwell> yea, that looks like 8x.
2327 2011-07-15 15:44:39 <bliket_> well you originally said they are pci slots
2328 2011-07-15 15:44:42 <BlueMatt> looks like pci to me
2329 2011-07-15 15:44:57 <BlueMatt> if they are pcie its x8, but those are pci
2330 2011-07-15 15:45:09 <BlueMatt> which of these does it look like to you: http://itshootout.com/ben/foxconn/slots.jpg
2331 2011-07-15 15:45:17 <Joric> you would need pci-e x16 to mine, afaik
2332 2011-07-15 15:45:29 <BlueMatt> Joric: not at all
2333 2011-07-15 15:45:32 vorlov has joined
2334 2011-07-15 15:45:34 <BlueMatt> you neex pcie x1
2335 2011-07-15 15:45:39 <BlueMatt> to plug in a gcard
2336 2011-07-15 15:45:41 <Joric> okay
2337 2011-07-15 15:45:42 <BlueMatt> more than that is overkill
2338 2011-07-15 15:45:47 m00p has joined
2339 2011-07-15 15:46:00 <BlueMatt> devrandom: wx isnt bad, its boost that takes forever
2340 2011-07-15 15:46:32 <mtrlt> boost boosts your compile time and binary size
2341 2011-07-15 15:46:34 <mtrlt> >_<
2342 2011-07-15 15:46:48 <bliket_> do you not see what it says in the description here: http://cgi.ebay.com/110524930514
2343 2011-07-15 15:47:09 <Joric> boost occuped 4 gigs on my hdd
2344 2011-07-15 15:47:33 <BlueMatt> bliket_: yes the description says it has 2 slots, I see 3
2345 2011-07-15 15:47:43 <BlueMatt> it also says pcie, i see pci
2346 2011-07-15 15:48:00 <bliket_> one of them is meant for if you want to turn the board 90 degrees or something probably
2347 2011-07-15 15:48:12 <BlueMatt> what?
2348 2011-07-15 15:48:19 <BlueMatt> you cant plug it in in a different way
2349 2011-07-15 15:48:23 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2350 2011-07-15 15:48:29 <lfm> It is perfectly ok to link them all dll
2351 2011-07-15 15:48:35 <BlueMatt> the pic you are looking at is pci, this one is pcie: http://www.stuartconnections.com/store/en/riser/957-dell-poweredge-r710-pci-express-riser-card-board-r557c.html
2352 2011-07-15 15:48:45 blondo has joined
2353 2011-07-15 15:48:46 <BlueMatt> note the difference in orientation and size
2354 2011-07-15 15:48:51 <diki> ;;bc,stats
2355 2011-07-15 15:48:55 <BlueMatt> wait...
2356 2011-07-15 15:48:56 <gribble> Current Blocks: 136418 | Current Difficulty: 1564057.4508376 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 669 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 7 hours, 8 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1662706.87612284
2357 2011-07-15 15:49:14 <BlueMatt> oh, they do have the back side clip
2358 2011-07-15 15:49:16 <diki> let's hope at least one from those 669 blocks will be mine
2359 2011-07-15 15:49:32 <BlueMatt> no thats pcie
2360 2011-07-15 15:49:36 `10` has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2361 2011-07-15 15:49:39 <devrandom> BlueMatt: I'll do boost after
2362 2011-07-15 15:49:46 <bliket_> that doesn't look like pci to me
2363 2011-07-15 15:49:50 <blondo> Joric:  you can delete most of that boost crap
2364 2011-07-15 15:49:53 <bliket_> that looks like pci-e
2365 2011-07-15 15:50:09 <BlueMatt> it is pcie, from the top you cant see the clip on the back which makes it look like pci
2366 2011-07-15 15:50:25 <BlueMatt> the ports look different pcie has isnt a straight flat side
2367 2011-07-15 15:50:26 <BlueMatt> pci is
2368 2011-07-15 15:50:59 <bliket_> if you google "R710 Riser Card R557C"
2369 2011-07-15 15:51:00 <lfm> that riser card is only usefull for those dell boxen
2370 2011-07-15 15:51:12 <bliket_> you will notice that all search results say PCIE
2371 2011-07-15 15:51:18 <BlueMatt> theres an actual good pic at http://www.stuartconnections.com/store/en/riser/957-dell-poweredge-r710-pci-express-riser-card-board-r557c.html
2372 2011-07-15 15:51:22 <BlueMatt> it is pcie
2373 2011-07-15 15:51:37 <blondo> lfm:  but what that riser card says is that it should be cheap
2374 2011-07-15 15:51:39 <BlueMatt> I said that like 5 minutes ago
2375 2011-07-15 15:51:51 <bliket_> yeah it says it in the title "Dell PowerEdge R710 PCI Express Riser Card Board R557C"
2376 2011-07-15 15:51:53 <diki> what exactly does x-roll-ntime do?
2377 2011-07-15 15:51:55 <diki> what is it for?
2378 2011-07-15 15:52:00 <BlueMatt> lfm: no, if you can get a proper mount for it, it should work on any machine
2379 2011-07-15 15:52:00 <bliket_> "PCI Express"
2380 2011-07-15 15:52:12 <BlueMatt> its designed to mount in that dell server
2381 2011-07-15 15:52:21 <BlueMatt> it /should/ work on any machine though
2382 2011-07-15 15:52:24 <bliket_> yeah but it should work in any
2383 2011-07-15 15:52:27 <uzyn> does anyone knows why blkmond keeps dying after a minute or so?
2384 2011-07-15 15:52:29 <bliket_> i was just about to say that
2385 2011-07-15 15:52:33 <diki> lfm:do you have any enhancements for the diff calculator you wrote a while back?
2386 2011-07-15 15:52:43 <BlueMatt> but my original point that how the hell are you going to fit that many gpus in one box is still valid
2387 2011-07-15 15:52:48 <BlueMatt> even if you custom build the case
2388 2011-07-15 15:52:49 <gmaxwell> I wonder if the system firmware is going to bother probing and activating a three cards on one slot.
2389 2011-07-15 15:52:56 <BlueMatt> the pcie risers are gonna get too long
2390 2011-07-15 15:53:11 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: case? https://people.xiph.org/~greg/v1.jpg
2391 2011-07-15 15:53:20 Titeuf_87 has joined
2392 2011-07-15 15:53:28 <bliket_> thank you gmaxwell
2393 2011-07-15 15:53:29 <blondo> you need pcie on a cable…  i.e. thunderbolt
2394 2011-07-15 15:53:40 <gmaxwell> (another 1x2x8" board adds a second tier to that. :) )
2395 2011-07-15 15:53:42 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: look at the dell riser, it has gpus coming out parallel to the mobo
2396 2011-07-15 15:53:46 <bliket_> case is the least of my problems, making it work is my #1 concern
2397 2011-07-15 15:53:50 <BlueMatt> you cant fit gpus like that
2398 2011-07-15 15:53:54 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yes, put extenders on it.
2399 2011-07-15 15:54:00 <bliket_> exactly
2400 2011-07-15 15:54:04 <bliket_> thank you gmaxwell for being here
2401 2011-07-15 15:54:08 <BlueMatt> 6 gpus vertically on top of each other
2402 2011-07-15 15:54:13 <BlueMatt> extenders would get too long to work
2403 2011-07-15 15:54:14 <bliket_> yes its doable
2404 2011-07-15 15:54:27 <blondo> gmaxwell:  is that your setup?
2405 2011-07-15 15:54:35 <BlueMatt> iirc there is a limit to the length of pcie extenders
2406 2011-07-15 15:54:39 <gmaxwell> I could see how I could get one of those onto my systems. Though probably not more.
2407 2011-07-15 15:54:40 <BlueMatt> or thats what Art said at one point...
2408 2011-07-15 15:54:59 <lfm> diki I cleaned it up a little maybe, you want the current one?
2409 2011-07-15 15:55:05 <bliket_> BlueMatt: but they dont make pci-e extenders that go out of that spec because they would be worthless cables
2410 2011-07-15 15:55:06 <blondo> physical limits or electronic limits on length?
2411 2011-07-15 15:55:09 <BlueMatt> think about the verical length of a gpu, now multiply by 6, will an extender work?
2412 2011-07-15 15:55:16 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: I think 20cm is spec but there are pics with people that have two 20cm extenders chained.
2413 2011-07-15 15:55:40 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: 40 cm is still not 6 gpus
2414 2011-07-15 15:55:53 <BlueMatt> devrandom: cool, sounds good
2415 2011-07-15 15:56:06 <gmaxwell> To get one of those onto a board, I'd go one out horizontally, one out and up and one straight up.
2416 2011-07-15 15:56:14 xelister has joined
2417 2011-07-15 15:56:20 <gmaxwell> But yea, that would only work for one.
2418 2011-07-15 15:56:20 <MrDD> i dont know what should i do with my pool, anyone want to rent it?
2419 2011-07-15 15:56:22 <MrDD> :D
2420 2011-07-15 15:56:27 <BlueMatt> hes saying fill his mobo (which has what 6 pcie slots one after another)
2421 2011-07-15 15:56:30 <BlueMatt> with those
2422 2011-07-15 15:56:44 <BlueMatt> so considering gpus are 2 deep, you have to do 6 on top of each other
2423 2011-07-15 15:56:49 <BlueMatt> minus those you can do sideways
2424 2011-07-15 15:56:51 <gmaxwell> yea, I don't think that would work unless it will electrically drive out of spec double/trippleed up extenders.
2425 2011-07-15 15:57:00 <BlueMatt> thats my point
2426 2011-07-15 15:57:03 <bliket_> if you powerhack the extenders
2427 2011-07-15 15:57:10 <bliket_> then it should be doable
2428 2011-07-15 15:57:13 <BlueMatt> and I really, really doubt any extender is going to work at 3x spec
2429 2011-07-15 15:57:18 <BlueMatt> no, not at all
2430 2011-07-15 15:57:22 <gmaxwell> the signal quality and the reflections from the extenders willget you eventually.
2431 2011-07-15 15:57:34 <bliket_> reflections?
2432 2011-07-15 15:57:38 <BlueMatt> plus consider that the splitter there has to be counted as an extender
2433 2011-07-15 15:57:38 <bliket_> signal quality?
2434 2011-07-15 15:57:42 <BlueMatt> crosstalk
2435 2011-07-15 15:57:43 <blondo> signal reflections
2436 2011-07-15 15:57:50 <BlueMatt> from 20 extenders being beside each other
2437 2011-07-15 15:57:52 <gmaxwell> Thes are not slow busses...
2438 2011-07-15 15:57:53 <blondo> electromagnetic crosstalk
2439 2011-07-15 15:57:54 <bliket_> the lanes are split up
2440 2011-07-15 15:58:15 <bliket_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Pinout
2441 2011-07-15 15:58:24 <bliket_> look the actual pins are seperated
2442 2011-07-15 15:58:29 <bliket_> there is no cross talk
2443 2011-07-15 15:58:29 JRWR has joined
2444 2011-07-15 15:58:29 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
2445 2011-07-15 15:58:29 JRWR has joined
2446 2011-07-15 15:58:30 <BlueMatt> so, 20 extenders within that close range...
2447 2011-07-15 15:58:33 <BlueMatt> yes there would be
2448 2011-07-15 15:58:35 <gmaxwell> Well, no point arguing it.
2449 2011-07-15 15:58:40 <gmaxwell> Try it out and report if it works.
2450 2011-07-15 15:58:42 <BlueMatt> I mean you can try it
2451 2011-07-15 15:58:45 <BlueMatt> its worth a shot
2452 2011-07-15 15:58:50 <blondo> bliket_:  there is always crosstalk
2453 2011-07-15 15:58:51 <BlueMatt> you could probably get 2 gpu per splitter
2454 2011-07-15 15:58:53 <gmaxwell> Alternatively, you can send me two more gpus and I'll try one.
2455 2011-07-15 15:58:55 <bliket_> really?
2456 2011-07-15 15:58:55 <BlueMatt> well maybe
2457 2011-07-15 15:59:03 <bliket_> this is the first time i hear about cross talk
2458 2011-07-15 15:59:17 <BlueMatt> bliket_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosstalk
2459 2011-07-15 16:00:03 <BlueMatt> ever guessed why 100m ethernet is only speced for 100m on cat5?
2460 2011-07-15 16:00:06 <bliket_> wait so cross talk can be caused just by two pci-e extenders touching eachother, right?
2461 2011-07-15 16:00:09 <gmaxwell> In any case, boards/cpus are cheap once you have 6 cards per board.
2462 2011-07-15 16:00:20 <gmaxwell> bliket_: they don't have to be touching.
2463 2011-07-15 16:00:26 <BlueMatt> bliket_: its not touch its e&m so within close proximity
2464 2011-07-15 16:00:26 <bliket_> mine are
2465 2011-07-15 16:00:39 hahuang65 has joined
2466 2011-07-15 16:00:40 <gmaxwell> nearby and running in parallel for a long distance is enough.
2467 2011-07-15 16:00:54 <bliket_> my pci-e riser cables are touching, they are actually squished toghether, and I never had a problem
2468 2011-07-15 16:00:59 <gmaxwell> In any case, its stupid to debate this. It might work, it might not.
2469 2011-07-15 16:01:04 <bliket_> my pci-e riser cables are touching, they are actually squished toghether, and I never had a problem
2470 2011-07-15 16:01:12 erus` has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])
2471 2011-07-15 16:01:19 <BlueMatt> for short distances it shouldnt be
2472 2011-07-15 16:01:32 <BlueMatt> but once you are going 3x riser cables with 3 cables running beside each other
2473 2011-07-15 16:01:38 <Namegduf> Crosstalk adds interference. Interference may or may not cause problems.
2474 2011-07-15 16:01:40 <BlueMatt> I would say you might run into interference
2475 2011-07-15 16:01:47 <bliket_> i got 6 cables running beside eachother
2476 2011-07-15 16:01:49 <bliket_> right now
2477 2011-07-15 16:01:54 <bliket_> on 10 different rigs
2478 2011-07-15 16:02:00 <bliket_> and i got no problems
2479 2011-07-15 16:02:02 <BlueMatt> for 1 riser cable?
2480 2011-07-15 16:02:06 <bliket_> no
2481 2011-07-15 16:02:09 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: right, it's more of an issue if you're already out of spec due to going way over the distance limits, and having multiple connectors.
2482 2011-07-15 16:02:12 <BlueMatt> no, I mean 20cm?
2483 2011-07-15 16:02:14 <bliket_> 6 cables for 6 graphics cards
2484 2011-07-15 16:02:17 <Namegduf> Yeah.
2485 2011-07-15 16:02:20 <bliket_> i think they are 15cm
2486 2011-07-15 16:02:28 <BlueMatt> then you are within spec
2487 2011-07-15 16:02:43 <gmaxwell> yea, you're not going to get more cards in with extenders that short however.
2488 2011-07-15 16:02:51 <BlueMatt> if you start going 60cm with 24 riser cables...
2489 2011-07-15 16:02:52 <gmaxwell> You're going to need at least twice that.
2490 2011-07-15 16:02:54 <BlueMatt> then I wouldnt be sure
2491 2011-07-15 16:03:08 <BlueMatt> seriously, compared to another gpu, a mobo and proc are really cheap
2492 2011-07-15 16:03:15 <BlueMatt> just do that
2493 2011-07-15 16:03:18 <bliket_> i will make a half circle of graphics cards
2494 2011-07-15 16:03:31 <bliket_> i think that will solve the distance problem
2495 2011-07-15 16:03:34 <gmaxwell> All to lower your per slot cost from $40 to $30 or whatever.
2496 2011-07-15 16:04:03 <lfm> and then you need a 2000w psu
2497 2011-07-15 16:04:08 <BlueMatt> bliket_: think about the total number of cards here, what 8 slots times 3 24 cards...
2498 2011-07-15 16:04:12 <gmaxwell> Well, no, you need N smaller psu.
2499 2011-07-15 16:04:13 <BlueMatt> lfm: no much more
2500 2011-07-15 16:04:20 <BlueMatt> so many smaller ones
2501 2011-07-15 16:04:34 Marf has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2502 2011-07-15 16:04:55 <bliket_> http://compare.ebay.com/like/360345028440 <- the dell riser card for just $20
2503 2011-07-15 16:04:58 <bliket_> might be worth a try
2504 2011-07-15 16:05:03 <bliket_> you know what
2505 2011-07-15 16:05:06 <bliket_> I'll try and report back
2506 2011-07-15 16:05:14 <gmaxwell> My 6 card systems have 2x 1000w psu and its not enough (but I already had them). Many PSUs are somewhat optimistically rated.
2507 2011-07-15 16:05:23 <gmaxwell> bliket_: please do.
2508 2011-07-15 16:05:31 <bliket_> yep
2509 2011-07-15 16:05:36 <bliket_> thanks gmaxwell
2510 2011-07-15 16:05:39 <BlueMatt> bliket_: oh please do, I think there is a decent chance of it working, I want to see
2511 2011-07-15 16:05:48 <bliket_> yep :)
2512 2011-07-15 16:05:48 <BlueMatt> I just dont think you should get your hopes up
2513 2011-07-15 16:05:56 <bliket_> its worth trying
2514 2011-07-15 16:06:16 <bliket_> whats an extra $20 to test something
2515 2011-07-15 16:06:17 <BlueMatt> probably
2516 2011-07-15 16:06:29 <gmaxwell> If it works then I could pretty easily add a couple cards to each of my machines, once people start selling off their cards cheap. ;)
2517 2011-07-15 16:06:34 <Namegduf> The problem with PSU ratings
2518 2011-07-15 16:06:42 <Namegduf> Is that their rating is maximum combined
2519 2011-07-15 16:06:54 <BlueMatt> yea you have to check the specific pcie rails
2520 2011-07-15 16:07:03 <Namegduf> And they can't essentially deliver the full output on specific rails, yeah.
2521 2011-07-15 16:07:16 <Namegduf> (Generally can't, I think)
2522 2011-07-15 16:07:16 <BlueMatt> but most good psus will have 90% of their rating in the pcie rails
2523 2011-07-15 16:07:33 Georgyo_ is now known as Georgyo
2524 2011-07-15 16:07:42 <gmaxwell> Namegduf: well, my 1kws claim 900w on the 12v.
2525 2011-07-15 16:08:22 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr combo * r35caa5dfd3a7 poclbm-personal/ (BitcoinMiner.py HttpTransport.py): Merge branch 'submit_retry' into combo http://tinyurl.com/6hz99kq
2526 2011-07-15 16:08:23 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr combo * rd7250eec637e poclbm-personal/ (BitcoinMiner.py HttpTransport.py): Merge branch 'efficiency' into combo http://tinyurl.com/5u4hh9n
2527 2011-07-15 16:08:25 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr combo * r76caa71ad2e4 poclbm-personal/HttpTransport.py: Merge branch 'extended_timeout' into combo http://tinyurl.com/62crenl
2528 2011-07-15 16:08:34 <thermal> is the 8 peer connections hardcoded or in a config entry somewhere?
2529 2011-07-15 16:08:50 <gmaxwell> And they clearly don't provide it under sustained load. Or rather, I have at least one which is clearly weaker than most of the rest.
2530 2011-07-15 16:08:55 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: again, does that really need to be in the chan? how many people use your version of poclbm?
2531 2011-07-15 16:09:13 <BlueMatt> thermal: net.cpp
2532 2011-07-15 16:09:22 BurtyB has joined
2533 2011-07-15 16:09:22 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: about 100 I think
2534 2011-07-15 16:09:22 <gmaxwell> thermal: Why would you want to configure it?
2535 2011-07-15 16:09:29 <thermal> BlueMatt: ty
2536 2011-07-15 16:09:32 <lfm> thermal: its in the source. youd have to rebuild
2537 2011-07-15 16:09:34 <thermal> gmaxwell: i want to increase it
2538 2011-07-15 16:09:37 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: your poclbm instead of the stock one or diablo?
2539 2011-07-15 16:09:41 <luke-jr> yes
2540 2011-07-15 16:09:41 <gmaxwell> thermal: please don't.
2541 2011-07-15 16:09:50 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: and you have any evidence beyond guesses?
2542 2011-07-15 16:09:57 <gmaxwell> Thats the outbound, inbound is limited to 125, and it's set by maxconnections.  If you want more connections, get the port forwarded.
2543 2011-07-15 16:10:01 <BlueMatt> thermal: no reason to, dont do that
2544 2011-07-15 16:10:02 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I don't need it.
2545 2011-07-15 16:10:15 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: seriously? wtf is wrong with you man?
2546 2011-07-15 16:10:31 <thermal> hmm ok
2547 2011-07-15 16:10:33 <lfm> thermal: if you just open up the incomming ports you will get extra connections
2548 2011-07-15 16:10:55 <gmaxwell> Lots of extra connections. If you're running .24 you should be maxed out basically right away.
2549 2011-07-15 16:11:08 <gmaxwell> The network is short on listening ports.
2550 2011-07-15 16:11:25 <thermal> so the 8 connections in the status bar represents 8 inbound connections?
2551 2011-07-15 16:11:34 <lfm> thermal: no outbound
2552 2011-07-15 16:11:35 <BlueMatt> outbound
2553 2011-07-15 16:12:05 <gmaxwell> Well the status shows in plus out, but if you only have 8 then you're not listening / firewalled off from inbound.
2554 2011-07-15 16:12:08 JRWR has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2555 2011-07-15 16:12:12 <thermal> i have upnp enabled. wouldn't that be the same as manually port forwarding?
2556 2011-07-15 16:12:15 <lfm> themal 8 outbound is plenty. but if you can open up your inbound ports it will help things al over
2557 2011-07-15 16:12:21 <gmaxwell> thermal: it would, if it was working.
2558 2011-07-15 16:12:27 <BlueMatt> thermal: only if your router supports it
2559 2011-07-15 16:12:47 <lfm> thermal: if you are only seeing 8 connects then your upnp isnt working
2560 2011-07-15 16:13:01 <thermal> i see. i'm pretty sure my router does. a little 'working' indicator, such as what the bittorrent client has, would be nice
2561 2011-07-15 16:13:14 <thermal> oh, i'm using tor
2562 2011-07-15 16:13:17 <thermal> that's probably why
2563 2011-07-15 16:13:24 <luke-jr> FAIL
2564 2011-07-15 16:13:24 <BlueMatt> yep that would do it
2565 2011-07-15 16:13:27 <lfm> thermal: oh forget tor
2566 2011-07-15 16:13:50 <thermal> well, i was considering selling plants
2567 2011-07-15 16:14:02 <lfm> thermal: tor wont help you there
2568 2011-07-15 16:14:03 <BlueMatt> ...
2569 2011-07-15 16:14:05 <luke-jr> thermal: so sell legal plants
2570 2011-07-15 16:14:07 <luke-jr> plenty of those
2571 2011-07-15 16:14:19 <thermal> plus i'd prefer the anonymity
2572 2011-07-15 16:14:24 <BlueMatt> yea, tor wont help you if you do something illegal
2573 2011-07-15 16:14:34 <BlueMatt> nor will bitcoin
2574 2011-07-15 16:14:39 <lfm> thermal: tor wont effect your annonymity with bitcoin really
2575 2011-07-15 16:14:43 <thermal> won't help me how?
2576 2011-07-15 16:14:51 <BlueMatt> it wont make you anonymous
2577 2011-07-15 16:14:55 <bliket_> except when you are buying drugs, bitcoin is good for that :)
2578 2011-07-15 16:14:58 <luke-jr> thermal: tor only keeps you anonymous from non-government
2579 2011-07-15 16:15:03 <BlueMatt> bliket_: no, its actually not
2580 2011-07-15 16:15:15 <BlueMatt> thermal: someone who has the time can still track you down
2581 2011-07-15 16:15:37 <luke-jr> BlueMatt: I think they need gov't cooperation too, for subpoenas.
2582 2011-07-15 16:15:43 <thermal> interesting. could you cite some sources for this information? i'd love to read about it
2583 2011-07-15 16:15:57 <Namegduf> BlueMatt: I think Tor has enough background activity to make actually pulling off a timing attack hard
2584 2011-07-15 16:16:07 <Namegduf> It's pretty overloaded a lot of the time
2585 2011-07-15 16:16:09 <BlueMatt> luke-jr: well true, but if they have the time and feel like social engineering...
2586 2011-07-15 16:16:10 <thermal> also, i was joking about the plants. anonymity is still very important, however
2587 2011-07-15 16:16:21 <BlueMatt> Namegduf: Im not talking about timing attacks against bitcoin+tor
2588 2011-07-15 16:16:39 <lfm> thermal: I might look up some sources for you if I cared if you get caught selling drugs or not
2589 2011-07-15 16:16:44 cdecker has joined
2590 2011-07-15 16:17:07 <Joric> you have to go through several trusted money launderers to become 'anonymous'
2591 2011-07-15 16:17:09 <thermal> lfm: if what you say is true, there are greater implications than just selling drugs
2592 2011-07-15 16:17:25 <BlueMatt> thermal: not track you down technologically, but if someone has the time (ie you become big enough) someone can ask mtgox for info on your address, trace back the mail, etc, etc, etc
2593 2011-07-15 16:17:27 <Joric> mtgox/mybitcoin are not them
2594 2011-07-15 16:17:34 <lfm> thermal: yes, great implications about anonymity
2595 2011-07-15 16:17:36 <BlueMatt> there are any number of ways you could be traced
2596 2011-07-15 16:17:56 <bliket_> the cyber police will back trace you
2597 2011-07-15 16:17:59 <thermal> BlueMatt: who said anything about mtgox?
2598 2011-07-15 16:18:14 <BlueMatt> thermal: well any exchange
2599 2011-07-15 16:18:25 <bliket_> consequences will never be the same
2600 2011-07-15 16:18:34 <BlueMatt> bliket_: ...
2601 2011-07-15 16:18:34 <thermal> thermal: i'm talking about bitcoin + tor alone
2602 2011-07-15 16:18:42 nhodges has joined
2603 2011-07-15 16:18:54 <thermal> so, just to be clear, you guys have challenged the ability of tor to be anonymous
2604 2011-07-15 16:18:55 <BlueMatt> talking to yourself now?
2605 2011-07-15 16:19:00 <lfm> thermal: so why do you think you need more than 8 connections anyway? thats just stupid
2606 2011-07-15 16:19:24 <BlueMatt> thermal: bitcoin alone is pretty anonymous, its once you start using it for stuid things that you could get traced
2607 2011-07-15 16:19:33 <BlueMatt> thermal: bitcoin over tor actually doesnt help much at all
2608 2011-07-15 16:19:36 <Joric> probably the only way to get anonymous money is a solo mining
2609 2011-07-15 16:19:47 <BlueMatt> but then you cant spend it
2610 2011-07-15 16:19:50 <Namegduf> Tor is fine aside for timing attacks assuming not all three nodes used are compromised. Not 100% sure it's necessary for bitcoin.
2611 2011-07-15 16:19:57 <lfm> themawe know you can totally bypass tor if you are tracing ill gotten bitcoins.
2612 2011-07-15 16:20:17 <thermal> Namegduf: i agree
2613 2011-07-15 16:20:24 <Namegduf> As you can't easily put an IP address to a bitcoin address anyway
2614 2011-07-15 16:20:35 <BlueMatt> also, tor is not helpful for bitcoin, bitcoin actually offers plausible deniability if you are trying to think about timing attacks
2615 2011-07-15 16:20:42 <thermal> lfm: the last transaction i sent took several minutes to be confirmed
2616 2011-07-15 16:20:43 <BlueMatt> and that plausible is actually really good
2617 2011-07-15 16:20:52 <Namegduf> I *think* your node propagating a locally generated change looks just like a node propagating a change made elsewhere
2618 2011-07-15 16:20:55 <BlueMatt> (unless they are tapping your internet)
2619 2011-07-15 16:21:00 <thermal> lfm: i'd like that to take less time. how is that stupid?
2620 2011-07-15 16:21:13 <Namegduf> Confirmations will NOT happen faster.
2621 2011-07-15 16:21:23 <Namegduf> Confirmations happen an average of once per ten minutes
2622 2011-07-15 16:21:28 <Namegduf> And are a network-wide constant
2623 2011-07-15 16:21:31 <lfm> thermal: ya bitcoin takes an average of 1 hour to confirm any transaction, the number of connections is irrelevant
2624 2011-07-15 16:21:38 <BlueMatt> slightly lower since mining speed is increasing...
2625 2011-07-15 16:21:55 <Joric> thermal, it's designed to be so, blocks appear every 10 minutes, every 'confirmation' is just a new block
2626 2011-07-15 16:22:03 <thermal> oh, right. i see
2627 2011-07-15 16:22:05 <Namegduf> The first confirmation happens the first time a node who knows about your change generates a block.
2628 2011-07-15 16:22:05 <BlueMatt> but yea, 1 connection is as good as 100 if you are sending coins
2629 2011-07-15 16:22:13 <lfm> thermal: if you think the number of connections will make your transactions confirm faster, you are mistaken
2630 2011-07-15 16:22:16 <Namegduf> Making it faster makes confirmations less safe.
2631 2011-07-15 16:22:22 <Namegduf> So you'd ant more.
2632 2011-07-15 16:22:24 <thermal> lfm: i was mistaken, i understand now
2633 2011-07-15 16:22:40 <Namegduf> 60 confirmations at 1 minute each is about the same as 6 at 10 minutes each.
2634 2011-07-15 16:22:57 <Namegduf> In terms of reliabiliablity.
2635 2011-07-15 16:23:01 SISUbtcX has quit (Quit: SISUbtcX)
2636 2011-07-15 16:23:02 <thermal> a new block every minute would have been a nice design
2637 2011-07-15 16:23:06 <lfm> thermal: ok you're not stupid, just uninformed
2638 2011-07-15 16:23:20 <thermal> lfm: thanks for the validation
2639 2011-07-15 16:23:27 <Namegduf> thermal: That would cause more block chain forks
2640 2011-07-15 16:23:27 <BlueMatt> thermal: but it comes with many other problems
2641 2011-07-15 16:23:30 <BlueMatt> read the paper
2642 2011-07-15 16:23:32 <Namegduf> Where two blocks are generated at once
2643 2011-07-15 16:23:37 <BlueMatt> chain forks and less security per block
2644 2011-07-15 16:23:50 <thermal> BlueMatt: ok, i'll check it out again. i won't skim this time though
2645 2011-07-15 16:23:52 <Namegduf> And one gets canceled retroactively next time the chain generates a block
2646 2011-07-15 16:23:53 <UukGoblin> and more likelihood of invalid blocks
2647 2011-07-15 16:23:55 <BlueMatt> so if you had a block every 1 minute instead of 10, youd want to wait for >60 confirms instead of 6
2648 2011-07-15 16:24:09 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin's security requires that the number of blocks solved in less than the communication time betwen nodes be very small.
2649 2011-07-15 16:24:19 <senseles> bliket
2650 2011-07-15 16:24:23 <thermal> i see. all to prevent rogue forks, right?
2651 2011-07-15 16:24:24 <lfm> thermal: you pretty mch just gotta accept, thats how bitcoin works, 10 minutes per block is deaply entrenched
2652 2011-07-15 16:24:40 <senseles> nvm
2653 2011-07-15 16:24:45 <gmaxwell> thermal: in order to make sure that the networks computational power will be focused on extending a common chain.
2654 2011-07-15 16:25:16 <Namegduf> thermal: Basically.
2655 2011-07-15 16:25:30 <thermal> ok, thanks for all the helpful feedback.
2656 2011-07-15 16:25:36 <thermal> going to go read more about it :-)
2657 2011-07-15 16:25:47 <gmaxwell> oh hey, new scalablity limit: the speed of light means that bitcoin can't effectively be used from other planets.
2658 2011-07-15 16:25:57 <Namegduf> thermal: In terms of anonymity, be warned: Bitcoin transactions are psuedonomyous.
2659 2011-07-15 16:25:57 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: known issue
2660 2011-07-15 16:26:11 <Joric> any merchant is able to semi-confirm your transaction immediately after it hits the network (just by checking your public key signature), mybitcoin does that
2661 2011-07-15 16:26:24 <Namegduf> thermal: This means what your addresses do and who they trade with is a matter of public record- it's just there's no way to attach that to your real identity easily.
2662 2011-07-15 16:26:27 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: thanks for the bug report, we have dispatched a talented team of monkeys to fix the problem
2663 2011-07-15 16:26:35 <Namegduf> But it is very very hard to get real money into bitcoin
2664 2011-07-15 16:26:39 <Namegduf> Or ship real goods
2665 2011-07-15 16:26:44 <gmaxwell> Spaaaaacccceee monkeys.
2666 2011-07-15 16:26:54 <Namegduf> Without potentially compromising that psuedonomyous identity
2667 2011-07-15 16:26:55 <lfm> gmaxwell: I thot of a separate interplanetary bitcoin system that could just do one block per day or something, just for interplanetary currecy transfers
2668 2011-07-15 16:27:10 <Namegduf> By attaching it to a real identity via transaction records at an exchange with a bank account
2669 2011-07-15 16:27:14 <BlueMatt> still take too long, what if we are on pluto?
2670 2011-07-15 16:27:22 <gmaxwell> lfm: you'd just have currency per planet, and exchanges that just use one of the currencies remotely.
2671 2011-07-15 16:27:47 * luke-jr wonders if Bitcoin would work from the moon, actually
2672 2011-07-15 16:27:58 <thermal> Namegduf: i see. so would an address setup to accept transactions, break them up into randomly smaller parts and then send them out again be a way to break the tracking chain?
2673 2011-07-15 16:28:03 <lfm> gmaxwell: ya, youd have to have an extra exchange for the interplanetary to local currencies
2674 2011-07-15 16:28:15 <Namegduf> thermal: Yes- but you'd need to trust said address.
2675 2011-07-15 16:28:26 <gmaxwell> Yes, you could mine on the moon okay.
2676 2011-07-15 16:28:30 <gmaxwell> RTT is only ~2 seconds.
2677 2011-07-15 16:28:36 <BlueMatt> lfm: I take that back, its only 4 hours from pluto to earth
2678 2011-07-15 16:28:42 <luke-jr> ok, I want to move to the moon
2679 2011-07-15 16:28:42 <Namegduf> thermal: That's referred to as a bitcoin laundry; you can reliably determine someone used one, but not who they sent to through it.
2680 2011-07-15 16:28:45 <thermal> Namegduf: surely a service like that will exist eventually, given enough demand
2681 2011-07-15 16:28:59 denisx has joined
2682 2011-07-15 16:29:02 <Namegduf> thermal: I think Silk Road does it, and I know some one did exist, but neither are IMO trustworthy
2683 2011-07-15 16:29:13 <lfm> gmaxwell: even to mars with a 10-20 minute lag would not be too bad loss once a day for miners
2684 2011-07-15 16:29:36 <Namegduf> You could setup a Tor-like arrangement, hypothetically, in which multiple such accounts paid into each other, unaware of the actual source, based on instructions sent along a recursively encrypted stream
2685 2011-07-15 16:29:42 <diki> ;;bc,calc 720000
2686 2011-07-15 16:29:43 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 720000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1564057.4508376 , is 15 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 39 minutes, and 26 seconds
2687 2011-07-15 16:29:47 <Namegduf> But none exists AFAIK
2688 2011-07-15 16:29:52 <diki> ;;bc,gen 720000
2689 2011-07-15 16:29:53 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 720000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1564057.4508376 , is 0.463024189829 BTC per day and 0.0192926745762 BTC per hour.
2690 2011-07-15 16:30:00 <BlueMatt> diki: in private please
2691 2011-07-15 16:30:12 <gmaxwell> lfm: nah, if there was a lot of hash power on each side the chain would fork a lot, giving attackers an edge.
2692 2011-07-15 16:30:21 <diki> lfm:do you have any enhancements for the diff calculator you wrote a while back?
2693 2011-07-15 16:30:25 JRWR has joined
2694 2011-07-15 16:30:25 JRWR has quit (Changing host)
2695 2011-07-15 16:30:25 JRWR has joined
2696 2011-07-15 16:30:42 <lfm> gmaxwell: nope it wouldnt fork often with only one block a day and a 20 minute lag
2697 2011-07-15 16:30:55 <Joric> https://github.com/msporny/dna/pull/1
2698 2011-07-15 16:31:07 <Joric> combine human dnk with bitcoins and you'll get communism
2699 2011-07-15 16:31:13 <thermal> gmaxwell: then, at some stage after technological progression, all the planet's separate currencies could be unified and we would have... universalisation :D
2700 2011-07-15 16:31:26 <lfm> gmaxwell: it would take a long time to confirm tho like 6 days or something
2701 2011-07-15 16:31:30 darkmethod has joined
2702 2011-07-15 16:31:42 <Namegduf> thermal: But we can hardly even stand other humans in globalisation
2703 2011-07-15 16:31:45 <BlueMatt> lfm: confimations take a different meaning if block time is an hour
2704 2011-07-15 16:31:48 <gmaxwell> lfm: sorry, I'd missed that you were still talking about one block per day. Sure.
2705 2011-07-15 16:31:50 AStove has quit ()
2706 2011-07-15 16:31:51 <BlueMatt> lfm: or day
2707 2011-07-15 16:32:21 <thermal> Namegduf: true. we should probably focus on one planet at a time
2708 2011-07-15 16:32:44 <lfm> gmaxwell: itd still be a lot faster than any rocket
2709 2011-07-15 16:33:14 <lfm> the moon could proll join earth's bitcoin net without much trouble really
2710 2011-07-15 16:33:39 <gmaxwell> Yea, I said that above. The moon would be okay.
2711 2011-07-15 16:33:47 <thermal> what about quantum entanglement?
2712 2011-07-15 16:33:53 <Joric> i just downloaded his dna from github, looks like a whole human being's makefile fits in 24mb of structured data
2713 2011-07-15 16:34:11 <lfm> thermal: good luck with that, I expect it would still be speed of light
2714 2011-07-15 16:34:15 <phantomcircuit> Joric, that sounds too small
2715 2011-07-15 16:34:20 <Namegduf> That makes it slightly larger and less readable than the average open source project.
2716 2011-07-15 16:34:23 <Namegduf> Slightly.
2717 2011-07-15 16:34:34 <BlueMatt> lfm: no, by definition quantum entanglement is not speed of light
2718 2011-07-15 16:34:51 <BlueMatt> thermal: but good luck with that in any case...might be slightly difficult
2719 2011-07-15 16:35:14 <lfm> bluematt but to use it for actuall communications it might be speed of light
2720 2011-07-15 16:35:35 <BlueMatt> evidence?
2721 2011-07-15 16:35:52 <BlueMatt> I have to admit I havent followed it *that* closely but last I heard it was faster
2722 2011-07-15 16:36:28 <gmaxwell> er. no. quantum entanglement can't communicate _information_ faster than light.
2723 2011-07-15 16:37:06 <bliket_> is the new harry potter movie any good?
2724 2011-07-15 16:37:10 <UukGoblin> I read somewhere than FTL comms would basically mean time travel
2725 2011-07-15 16:37:22 <BlueMatt> I was under the impression you could encode things in the entanglement
2726 2011-07-15 16:37:29 <BlueMatt> ie modify the rotation
2727 2011-07-15 16:37:35 <BlueMatt> and buy that read a binary 1 or smth
2728 2011-07-15 16:38:11 <lfm> well when they start replaceing undersea cables with quantum entanglement lines, Ill woryy about it
2729 2011-07-15 16:38:30 <BlueMatt> lol, that might be...a ways out
2730 2011-07-15 16:39:53 <senseles> entanglement just entangles 2 atoms so their states will always be opposite to each other
2731 2011-07-15 16:39:57 <senseles> no communication can be done
2732 2011-07-15 16:40:12 <BlueMatt> can you not modify the state of one atom and thus the state of another?
2733 2011-07-15 16:40:15 <senseles> it's like a encryption key
2734 2011-07-15 16:40:16 <senseles> no
2735 2011-07-15 16:40:24 <senseles> if you modify one it will be out of sync with the other
2736 2011-07-15 16:40:25 <BlueMatt> ah, then I was mistaken...
2737 2011-07-15 16:40:34 <BlueMatt> yep, ok
2738 2011-07-15 16:40:48 <senseles> wormholes work just fine though
2739 2011-07-15 16:40:51 <devrandom> BlueMatt: https://github.com/devrandom/wxWidgets-release ... will have a build signature in a few min
2740 2011-07-15 16:40:57 <devrandom> this is for linux for now
2741 2011-07-15 16:41:01 <senseles> micro wormhole used for communication between 2 points
2742 2011-07-15 16:41:03 <lfm> hehe for certain definitions of "work"
2743 2011-07-15 16:41:17 <devrandom> will do boost and mingw this weekend
2744 2011-07-15 16:41:24 <BlueMatt> that one also might pose some problems implementing
2745 2011-07-15 16:41:28 <senseles> all we need is some exotic matter with negative mass and it's a done deal
2746 2011-07-15 16:41:34 <senseles> get on that
2747 2011-07-15 16:41:37 <senseles> let me know when its done
2748 2011-07-15 16:41:45 <Namegduf> Okay
2749 2011-07-15 16:41:48 <Namegduf> Working on it
2750 2011-07-15 16:42:09 <senseles> but you could have a communications hub with microwormholes from all over the world
2751 2011-07-15 16:42:11 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: you can do ftl key agreement, but you cant choose the bits selected in advance.
2752 2011-07-15 16:42:13 <BlueMatt> senseles: thanks for the bug report, we have dispatched a talented team of monkeys to fix the problem
2753 2011-07-15 16:42:16 <senseles> 10ms ping to asia, 10ms ping to europe
2754 2011-07-15 16:42:19 <devrandom> BlueMatt: then need to modify the bitcoin build script to repack the libs (they are unpacked because ranlib has non-deterministic metadata)
2755 2011-07-15 16:42:21 SecretSJ has joined
2756 2011-07-15 16:42:29 <lfm> negative mass and negative energy, colder than absolute zero and faster than light
2757 2011-07-15 16:42:35 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yep
2758 2011-07-15 16:42:52 <UukGoblin> ftl key agreement?
2759 2011-07-15 16:43:05 <lfm> they're prolly all linked
2760 2011-07-15 16:43:07 <BlueMatt> faster than light
2761 2011-07-15 16:43:12 <UukGoblin> how?
2762 2011-07-15 16:43:20 <lfm> unified fields
2763 2011-07-15 16:43:23 <Namegduf> Read state of entangled matter
2764 2011-07-15 16:43:31 <Namegduf> At both ends
2765 2011-07-15 16:43:45 <Namegduf> That said, right now we need to physically transfer the matter, generated together, right?
2766 2011-07-15 16:43:52 Gonzago has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2767 2011-07-15 16:43:53 <Namegduf> We can't do the entangling FTL?
2768 2011-07-15 16:44:04 <Namegduf> So it boils down to preshared keys in its present form.
2769 2011-07-15 16:44:07 <senseles> you cant communicate with entangled atoms
2770 2011-07-15 16:44:28 <UukGoblin> do you mean that peer A and peer B can securely agree on a cryptographic key for encryption of data in less time it takes light to travel from A to B?
2771 2011-07-15 16:44:30 <BlueMatt> devrandom: cool, cant wait
2772 2011-07-15 16:44:37 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: yes
2773 2011-07-15 16:44:43 <devrandom> BlueMatt: also added -j and -m flags to gbuild to choose procs and memory
2774 2011-07-15 16:44:53 abadr has joined
2775 2011-07-15 16:44:58 <senseles> but it's not FTL
2776 2011-07-15 16:45:04 <senseles> the key is predetermined
2777 2011-07-15 16:45:13 <_W_> FTL transfer of information implies time travel back in time and all its inherent paradoxes
2778 2011-07-15 16:45:22 <senseles> you'd have to entangle the atoms then physically transport them to location b
2779 2011-07-15 16:45:30 <BlueMatt> devrandom: oooh, thats really nice, no more -j2, back to my -j20
2780 2011-07-15 16:45:48 <Joric> funny, some or dna patches there are based on actual data https://github.com/cariaso/dna/commit/dcc4b64f0b53f3dde2222b482e98ad2e869a3312
2781 2011-07-15 16:45:50 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, I assume you don't need any data transferred to generate the cryptographic key then..?
2782 2011-07-15 16:45:52 <lfm> oh, could add entropy reversal and time travel, all linked by the hypothetical unified feild theory
2783 2011-07-15 16:46:18 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: no, though as senseles current methods of entanglement require entangling the atoms when they are together
2784 2011-07-15 16:46:57 MrDD has quit ()
2785 2011-07-15 16:47:05 <UukGoblin> BlueMatt, "no" == "data transfer is not required"?
2786 2011-07-15 16:47:14 <BlueMatt> yes
2787 2011-07-15 16:47:29 <UukGoblin> ok, so don't need any quantum magic for that then
2788 2011-07-15 16:47:37 <BlueMatt> you both get data, but you dont get to chose the data
2789 2011-07-15 16:48:06 <UukGoblin> hm
2790 2011-07-15 16:48:20 <UukGoblin> then you must generate the data locally... which actually means choosing it...
2791 2011-07-15 16:48:31 <devrandom> BlueMatt: you really have 20 cores?
2792 2011-07-15 16:48:32 freakazoid has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2793 2011-07-15 16:48:34 * UukGoblin baffled
2794 2011-07-15 16:48:39 <senseles> the entangled atoms are only used for encryption keys
2795 2011-07-15 16:48:49 <senseles> you can have a billion atoms each representing 1 bit
2796 2011-07-15 16:48:53 <senseles> be your encryption key
2797 2011-07-15 16:48:59 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
2798 2011-07-15 16:49:00 coderrr`brb is now known as coderrr
2799 2011-07-15 16:49:00 <BlueMatt> devrandom: no, 8, but x2 is good and if you have more memory, why not
2800 2011-07-15 16:49:03 <senseles> and each location (due to the quantum entanglement) can read the atoms at any point
2801 2011-07-15 16:49:09 <senseles> to know what the encryption and decryption key is
2802 2011-07-15 16:49:40 `10` has joined
2803 2011-07-15 16:49:47 <UukGoblin> it'd take at least (distance(A, B) / c) time for the atoms to reach the other peer... entangled or not...
2804 2011-07-15 16:49:56 <senseles> it doesnt matter
2805 2011-07-15 16:49:59 <senseles> it's a physical process
2806 2011-07-15 16:50:02 <devrandom> BlueMatt: ok, unfortunately I use the same number for cpus and make procs...  so max -j8 for you
2807 2011-07-15 16:50:04 <senseles> there is no transfer of data
2808 2011-07-15 16:50:17 <BlueMatt> devrandom: awwww
2809 2011-07-15 16:50:31 <senseles> im trying to think of an analogy but i cant come up with one
2810 2011-07-15 16:50:34 <BlueMatt> devrandom: does kvm let you make more cores than you have?
2811 2011-07-15 16:50:48 <UukGoblin> senseles, so you split a quantum particle earlier and give each split part to each peer?
2812 2011-07-15 16:51:01 <devrandom> BlueMatt: hm... good question, don't know
2813 2011-07-15 16:51:11 <senseles> there is no splitting
2814 2011-07-15 16:51:13 <senseles> you have 2 atoms
2815 2011-07-15 16:51:16 <senseles> you entangle them
2816 2011-07-15 16:51:20 <senseles> take one atom to europe and one to asia
2817 2011-07-15 16:51:24 <UukGoblin> senseles, so that when one peer observes its state he'll know the state of the other one?
2818 2011-07-15 16:51:26 <BlueMatt> devrandom: Id assume it does...doesnt matter too much -j8 is already fast
2819 2011-07-15 16:51:32 <senseles> read atom's state in EU = 1 then asia must be 0
2820 2011-07-15 16:51:41 <lfm> I thot they usually did two photons but I may be wrong
2821 2011-07-15 16:51:42 <BlueMatt> devrandom: plus its 4 physical cores, so in reality -j8 offers very little gain over -j4
2822 2011-07-15 16:51:42 <UukGoblin> hmm
2823 2011-07-15 16:51:44 <senseles> correct
2824 2011-07-15 16:51:58 <UukGoblin> well, how can you protect about the state being observed in transit?
2825 2011-07-15 16:52:04 <senseles> you cant
2826 2011-07-15 16:52:05 <UukGoblin> s/about/from/
2827 2011-07-15 16:52:07 <devrandom> BlueMatt: hopefully we will have to build the deps just once, and be able to use them for months
2828 2011-07-15 16:52:12 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
2829 2011-07-15 16:52:13 <senseles> if someone takes the entangled atoms they can decrypt the stuff
2830 2011-07-15 16:52:18 <BlueMatt> devrandom: yep
2831 2011-07-15 16:52:21 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: go look up quantum encryption.
2832 2011-07-15 16:52:40 <senseles> but the encryption key itself is physically located at both ends it is not transmitted
2833 2011-07-15 16:52:45 <senseles> all someone could do is attempt to crack the code
2834 2011-07-15 16:52:53 <senseles> but for a key that could be over a billion digits in length
2835 2011-07-15 16:52:54 <gmaxwell> UukGoblin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_key_distribution
2836 2011-07-15 16:52:55 <senseles> good luck
2837 2011-07-15 16:53:01 <UukGoblin> gmaxwell, thanks
2838 2011-07-15 16:53:03 <lfm> you can tell if it's intercepted
2839 2011-07-15 16:53:11 <lfm> and change the key
2840 2011-07-15 16:53:21 <UukGoblin> well, thanks to all that explained the stuff to me, actually... very interesting
2841 2011-07-15 16:53:27 mosimo has joined
2842 2011-07-15 16:55:25 <senseles> i still want a wormhole so i can offer 10$/mbit in singapore :/
2843 2011-07-15 16:55:46 <BlueMatt> 10/mbit, damn thats expensive
2844 2011-07-15 16:56:10 <BlueMatt> even compared to residential in the states
2845 2011-07-15 16:56:18 <UukGoblin> senseles, you want a lot... are wormholes actually proven to exist?
2846 2011-07-15 16:56:26 <BlueMatt> UukGoblin: yes
2847 2011-07-15 16:56:33 <BlueMatt> well theoretically...
2848 2011-07-15 16:56:33 <senseles> theoretically wormholes could exist from the big bang
2849 2011-07-15 16:56:42 <senseles> as far as i know no one has ever seen one or made one
2850 2011-07-15 16:56:44 <BlueMatt> so...no
2851 2011-07-15 16:56:55 <UukGoblin> mhm
2852 2011-07-15 16:57:00 abadr has quit (Quit: abadr)
2853 2011-07-15 16:57:01 <UukGoblin> they'd be nice to have, I agree
2854 2011-07-15 16:57:18 <UukGoblin> but I think there are easier ways of offering bandwidth in singapore ;-]
2855 2011-07-15 16:57:42 <senseles> its a conspiracy by the airline industry ~ they're preventing wormhole technology ..
2856 2011-07-15 16:58:01 <UukGoblin> thought they were preventing anti-grav tech first
2857 2011-07-15 16:58:09 <senseles> that too
2858 2011-07-15 16:58:18 <UukGoblin> bastards
2859 2011-07-15 16:58:26 * UukGoblin unleashes illuminati on them
2860 2011-07-15 16:58:47 <UukGoblin> oh... hang on...
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2870 2011-07-15 17:16:23 <uzyn> when running pushpool, do I need to set generate=1?
2871 2011-07-15 17:16:24 <bliket_> What does it mean when I get "Generated (50 matures in 38 more blocks) credit 0.00" mean in my transactions?
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2875 2011-07-15 17:17:01 <blondo> congrats!
2876 2011-07-15 17:17:19 <blondo> but you have to wait for mined coins to mature before spending them
2877 2011-07-15 17:17:19 <mtrlt> it means you found a block
2878 2011-07-15 17:17:30 <mtrlt> because it's 50 BTC
2879 2011-07-15 17:18:12 <bliket_> awesome
2880 2011-07-15 17:18:23 <gmaxwell> bliket_: well, what block number does your bitcoin think its at?
2881 2011-07-15 17:18:24 <uzyn> when running pushpool, do I need to set bitcoind to generate=1?
2882 2011-07-15 17:18:40 <bliket_> 136429
2883 2011-07-15 17:18:45 <gmaxwell> oh cool.
2884 2011-07-15 17:18:51 <gmaxwell> bliket_: how much hash power are you using?
2885 2011-07-15 17:18:54 <jgarzik> uzyn: no
2886 2011-07-15 17:19:04 <uzyn> jgarzik: Thanks.
2887 2011-07-15 17:19:18 <bliket_> 140mhash i was literally just testing my private pool
2888 2011-07-15 17:19:21 <blondo> gmaxwell:  do you mine?
2889 2011-07-15 17:19:28 <uzyn> jgarzik: I've been trying to mine on testnet, got 1600 shares now and still no block found. Guess I'm just unlucky
2890 2011-07-15 17:19:31 <gmaxwell> blondo: Sure.
2891 2011-07-15 17:19:36 amiller has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
2892 2011-07-15 17:19:45 <gmaxwell> bliket_: :) quite cool.
2893 2011-07-15 17:19:45 kermit has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2894 2011-07-15 17:19:54 <blondo> yea, that's awesome.
2895 2011-07-15 17:19:59 <blondo> gmaxwell:  do you mine solo?
2896 2011-07-15 17:20:29 <gmaxwell> I have, I'm not at the moment.
2897 2011-07-15 17:20:33 <mtrlt> bliket_: lol you got insane luck :P
2898 2011-07-15 17:20:54 <diki> is photoshop a heavy program?
2899 2011-07-15 17:21:02 <diki> both CPU wise and memory wise?
2900 2011-07-15 17:21:03 <blondo> heavy?
2901 2011-07-15 17:21:18 <blondo> well, if you just run it and don't do anything with it, no
2902 2011-07-15 17:21:47 <diki> however, is it usually a heavy program?
2903 2011-07-15 17:21:54 brunner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2904 2011-07-15 17:21:59 <blondo> it really depends how you use it
2905 2011-07-15 17:22:33 brunner has joined
2906 2011-07-15 17:23:05 <diki> but i've used it and uses around 500 megs of ram at startup
2907 2011-07-15 17:23:09 <diki> but it starts fast
2908 2011-07-15 17:23:24 <blondo> oh, crap, that's only 0.14 Ghash/s…  thought there was an extra couple zeros in there…  bliket_ is /very/ lucky
2909 2011-07-15 17:23:24 Bachfischer has joined
2910 2011-07-15 17:23:27 <lfm> uzyn there is no "shares" on testnet.
2911 2011-07-15 17:23:57 <uzyn> lfm: what does that mean? current difficulty on public testnet is 502.92155041
2912 2011-07-15 17:24:15 <diki> can someone make a new testnet?
2913 2011-07-15 17:24:23 <gmaxwell> blondo: sure, luck happens...
2914 2011-07-15 17:24:38 <uzyn> I've been mining with 1GH/s via pushpool that's connected to the public testnet for an hour now
2915 2011-07-15 17:24:39 <lfm> blondo: photoshop can use a lot of memory and cpu. depends what you're doing and how large the images are.
2916 2011-07-15 17:24:50 <uzyn> and generated 1600+ logged shares
2917 2011-07-15 17:24:56 <uzyn> am I testing it wrong?
2918 2011-07-15 17:25:06 <uzyn> my bitcoind balance is still 0.0000
2919 2011-07-15 17:25:08 <diki> setting aside that photoshop is an image processing program
2920 2011-07-15 17:25:13 <diki> is bitcoin photoshop then?
2921 2011-07-15 17:25:17 <blondo> lfm:  yes, /I/ am aware of that…  diki, not so much
2922 2011-07-15 17:25:18 <uzyn> or am I just unlucky?
2923 2011-07-15 17:25:33 <lfm> uzyn: your running pushpool yourself on testnet?
2924 2011-07-15 17:25:41 <diki> cause, it's not, yet it's slow as hell on startup
2925 2011-07-15 17:25:44 <uzyn> lfm: yup
2926 2011-07-15 17:25:46 <gmaxwell> 2x difficulty isn't _that_ unlucky.
2927 2011-07-15 17:25:52 <gmaxwell> oh 1600?
2928 2011-07-15 17:25:57 <uzyn> 1700 now
2929 2011-07-15 17:26:04 pnicholson has left ()
2930 2011-07-15 17:26:12 <gmaxwell> yea, well... 3x isn't either.. lets see..
2931 2011-07-15 17:26:18 <lfm> uzyn: ya, that seems kinda unlucky, whats the testnet difficulty now?600 or so?
2932 2011-07-15 17:26:30 <blondo> startup time is a completely different issue.
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2934 2011-07-15 17:26:34 <uzyn> lfm: my bitcoind is connected to public testnet, pushpool connected to the bitcoind, and 2 1GH/s miners connected to my own pushpool
2935 2011-07-15 17:26:39 <uzyn> 502 difficulty
2936 2011-07-15 17:26:53 <uzyn> I'll wait awhile more then I guess
2937 2011-07-15 17:26:59 <blondo> diki:^
2938 2011-07-15 17:27:13 <uzyn> first time setting all these up so not sure if I'm doing it right
2939 2011-07-15 17:27:13 <lfm> uzyn: so ya you should get a block about once in 500 shares then
2940 2011-07-15 17:27:14 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2941 2011-07-15 17:27:39 <uzyn> lfm: how do I know when I get a block?
2942 2011-07-15 17:27:47 <gmaxwell> uzyn: 3x difficulty or greater is is p=.04978706836786394
2943 2011-07-15 17:28:16 <uzyn> lfm: i was checking my balance. and now I just remembered that it needs 120 confirmations to show up on my bitcoind balance
2944 2011-07-15 17:28:26 <CIA-103> bitcoin: Luke Dashjr combo * r477a823bf64a poclbm-personal/ (BitcoinMiner.py poclbm.py): Merge branch 'show_all_shares' into combo http://tinyurl.com/6jw87p8
2945 2011-07-15 17:28:45 <lfm> uzyn ya, look at your logs to see if you generated any
2946 2011-07-15 17:29:19 <lfm> uzyn: try "grep generated ~/.bitcoin/debug.log"
2947 2011-07-15 17:29:38 <diki> so, when all the bugs bitcoin has(if any) are fixed, i think we should move on the problem of the slow startup and too much memory usage
2948 2011-07-15 17:29:58 <lfm> uzyn: I mean grep generated ~/.bitcoin/testnet/debug.log"
2949 2011-07-15 17:30:00 <diki> cause bitcoin is a wallet
2950 2011-07-15 17:30:05 <diki> it needs to be instant
2951 2011-07-15 17:30:08 <uzyn> lfm: none. :(
2952 2011-07-15 17:30:12 <uzyn> lfm: thanks!
2953 2011-07-15 17:30:28 <lfm> diki it doesnt use too much memory
2954 2011-07-15 17:30:36 <uzyn> is that how you usually know if you found a block? by polling debug.log?
2955 2011-07-15 17:30:39 <diki> if 150-100 is not much...
2956 2011-07-15 17:30:48 <diki> uzyn-you check the client
2957 2011-07-15 17:31:02 <lfm> uzyn: I usuualy found out when my balance showed it
2958 2011-07-15 17:31:21 clr_ has joined
2959 2011-07-15 17:31:29 <uzyn> lfm: that will be 120 confirmations late, won't it?
2960 2011-07-15 17:31:58 <uzyn> oh i did generated 2 blocks.
2961 2011-07-15 17:31:58 <diki> uzyn-at least 10-12 hours
2962 2011-07-15 17:32:01 <luke-jr> ;;bc,status
2963 2011-07-15 17:32:01 <gribble> Error: "bc,status" is not a valid command.
2964 2011-07-15 17:32:03 <luke-jr> ;;bc,stats
2965 2011-07-15 17:32:05 <uzyn> was checking ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
2966 2011-07-15 17:32:05 <gribble> Current Blocks: 136430 | Current Difficulty: 1564057.4508376 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 657 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 5 hours, 17 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1663313.07277917
2967 2011-07-15 17:32:05 <lfm> uzyn: ya but you cant spend it till then anyway
2968 2011-07-15 17:32:24 <uzyn> lfm: just realized that you pointed to testnet/debug.log later
2969 2011-07-15 17:32:31 <lfm> uzyn: there ya go ... grats
2970 2011-07-15 17:32:34 <uzyn> lfm: thanks!
2971 2011-07-15 17:33:01 <lfm> so ya 2 blocks is just about average then
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2974 2011-07-15 17:33:30 <uzyn> yeah
2975 2011-07-15 17:33:47 <uzyn> and regarding pushpool, I guess upstream_result shows if a block is valid?
2976 2011-07-15 17:34:27 <lfm> uzyn: I never tried puchpool myself, I just mine solo direct
2977 2011-07-15 17:34:59 <uzyn> lfm: how do you mine solo without setting up an rpc service like pushpool?
2978 2011-07-15 17:35:06 <uzyn> lfm: you can connect to your own bitcoind?
2979 2011-07-15 17:35:17 <lfm> uzyn: bitcoin does getwork rpc too
2980 2011-07-15 17:35:36 <uzyn> lfm: oh! I thought I needed pushpool!
2981 2011-07-15 17:35:37 <lfm> yup
2982 2011-07-15 17:35:46 <uzyn> lfm: thanks!! that's helpful
2983 2011-07-15 17:36:16 <lfm> thats why I said you have no shares at first, I didnt understand that you set up pushpool for it
2984 2011-07-15 17:36:47 <uzyn> lfm: I thought I needed that to have multiple miners connect to a single bitcoind
2985 2011-07-15 17:36:53 <diki> no
2986 2011-07-15 17:36:58 <gmaxwell> no, you can just point them at it.
2987 2011-07-15 17:37:17 <gmaxwell> Though for stats/monitoring reasons, pushpool can still be helpful.
2988 2011-07-15 17:37:22 <lfm> naw you can connect a few miners to a bitocind, its not as many as a full pool server but few people have that many
2989 2011-07-15 17:37:50 <uzyn> lfm: I have only 2. lol. I didn't know I can connect directly
2990 2011-07-15 17:37:56 <uzyn> lfm: learned something today. thanks!
2991 2011-07-15 17:38:18 <lfm> directly is how we all used to do it
2992 2011-07-15 17:38:58 <uzyn> i'm kind of new to this. but really appreciate your help
2993 2011-07-15 17:39:21 <lfm> seems like you're doing fine
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3007 2011-07-15 17:44:04 <ersi> Well, apparently there'll be atleast one talk related to Bitcoin: http://events.ccc.de/camp/2011/Fahrplan/events/4450.en.html
3008 2011-07-15 17:48:45 <senseles> cool stuff
3009 2011-07-15 17:52:54 <senseles> ;;bc,calc 13000
3010 2011-07-15 17:52:55 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 13000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1564057.4508376 , is 16 years, 20 weeks, 0 days, 17 hours, 56 minutes, and 24 seconds
3011 2011-07-15 17:53:00 <senseles> ;;bc,calc 13000000
3012 2011-07-15 17:53:01 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 13000000 Khps, given current difficulty of 1564057.4508376 , is 5 days, 23 hours, 32 minutes, and 16 seconds
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3028 2011-07-15 18:04:47 <diki> how much btw would a person want to hack me some code in cgminer to only send hashes, which pass this condition->if (hash[27] == 0 || hash[26] == 0)
3029 2011-07-15 18:04:51 <diki> s/btw/btc
3030 2011-07-15 18:05:10 <diki> where hash[27] contains the binary representation of the hash
3031 2011-07-15 18:05:10 colinn has joined
3032 2011-07-15 18:05:30 <colinn> My Bitcoin daemon on Linux isn't updating blocks, but connections are being made. Any ideas?
3033 2011-07-15 18:06:01 <lfm> ;;bc,blocks
3034 2011-07-15 18:06:03 <gribble> HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable
3035 2011-07-15 18:07:42 <lfm> colinn: so how many blocks do you have? I have 136433,
3036 2011-07-15 18:08:02 <diki> same
3037 2011-07-15 18:08:17 <colinn> 135094 on my Linux client.
3038 2011-07-15 18:08:29 <colinn> On a different PC on a different network running Windows I have the correct number
3039 2011-07-15 18:08:31 <lfm> k thats bad
3040 2011-07-15 18:08:36 <colinn> Quite. :P
3041 2011-07-15 18:08:37 <genewitch> [1]+  Killed                  nohup ./bitcoind <--- why does this happen 2+ times a day?
3042 2011-07-15 18:08:48 <genewitch> bitcoind crashes constantly on my server
3043 2011-07-15 18:08:58 <lfm> colinn: ya try a restart, it should get all 8 new connects
3044 2011-07-15 18:09:09 xelister has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3045 2011-07-15 18:09:18 <lfm> genewitch: log?
3046 2011-07-15 18:09:28 <genewitch> lfm: probably huge, where should i put it
3047 2011-07-15 18:09:46 <lfm> genewitch: I mean does it log anything when it shuts down?
3048 2011-07-15 18:09:58 <colinn> lfm: anything else I could try? It's a production server and I'd rather not restart it :/
3049 2011-07-15 18:10:13 <lfm> colinn: just restart bitcoin
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3051 2011-07-15 18:10:36 <colinn> lfm: Ah, yeah I just did, and it instantly picked up 10 connections. Isn't updating blocks though
3052 2011-07-15 18:11:50 <genewitch> lfm: not that i see in syslog, messages, etc
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3055 2011-07-15 18:13:03 <lfm> colinn: try a -addnode= to a known good node
3056 2011-07-15 18:13:30 <colinn> lfm: Already tried that, used my Windows PC, but it still refused to update.
3057 2011-07-15 18:13:48 <lfm> genewitch: well kinda hard to tell what happened from what you have told us
3058 2011-07-15 18:13:48 <colinn> lfm: I didn't wait very long though, so I'll try it again and wait longer
3059 2011-07-15 18:14:13 <lfm> colinn: ya give it like 1/2 hour or so
3060 2011-07-15 18:16:12 <lfm> genewitch: "Killed" indicates someone or something is sending it a kill signal. if you. only think I can think of is if your machine is too small or running out of resources (like memory maybe).
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3063 2011-07-15 18:20:22 <genewitch> lfm: ok is there a way to make bitcoin use less memory then
3064 2011-07-15 18:22:00 <Zagitta> what would you need that for diki?
3065 2011-07-15 18:24:12 rynx has joined
3066 2011-07-15 18:26:55 <lfm> genewitch: not really. move your bitcoins to mybitcion.com maybe
3067 2011-07-15 18:27:45 <lfm> genewitch: give it a swapfile
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3078 2011-07-15 18:41:11 <genewitch> lfm: giving it a swapfile will cost too much money ;-)
3079 2011-07-15 18:42:47 <luke-jr> lfm: are you seriously recommending mybitcoin?
3080 2011-07-15 18:42:57 <luke-jr> genewitch: if you want a web wallet, MtGox works well nowadays
3081 2011-07-15 18:43:12 <luke-jr> only one address, but oh well
3082 2011-07-15 18:43:24 <luke-jr> actually, nm, IIRC they change addresses automatically
3083 2011-07-15 18:43:31 <luke-jr> just no way to label them
3084 2011-07-15 18:44:53 <genewitch> i don't need a web wallet, i need a bitcoind that doens't crash randomly and with no errors
3085 2011-07-15 18:45:10 <jjjx> Isn't instacoin or whatever pretty good? It looks good...
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3091 2011-07-15 18:52:32 <forrestv> i'm getting a crash when using rpc a lot - http://im.forre.st/pb/95944928.txt
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3093 2011-07-15 18:53:28 <gmaxwell> genewitch: bitcoind is crashing on you?
3094 2011-07-15 18:54:00 <gmaxwell> genewitch: What version, what os?
3095 2011-07-15 18:54:13 <gmaxwell> genewitch: any idea what triggers the crash?
3096 2011-07-15 18:54:17 Fireball has quit (Quit: ROS is the power.)
3097 2011-07-15 18:55:17 <colinn> Any other ideas why my Linux client isn't updating blocks?
3098 2011-07-15 18:55:37 <gmaxwell> colinn: How many connections do you have?
3099 2011-07-15 18:55:40 <sipa> which version?
3100 2011-07-15 18:56:07 <colinn> gmaxwell: Steady 10-30. After I just started it it rose to 100, now it's steady at around 20.
3101 2011-07-15 18:56:27 <gmaxwell> And your block count isn't going up?
3102 2011-07-15 18:56:38 <gmaxwell> anything interesting showing up in you debug log?
3103 2011-07-15 18:56:54 <colinn> Wheres the debug log located? ~/.bitcoin/ ?
3104 2011-07-15 18:57:07 <forrestv> yes
3105 2011-07-15 18:57:23 <ersi> genewitch: do you have any swap what so ever?
3106 2011-07-15 18:57:29 <gmaxwell> ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
3107 2011-07-15 18:57:37 <ersi> genewitch: and/or do you see any spikes in resources?
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3110 2011-07-15 18:58:54 <genewitch> gmaxwell: what's the bitcoin command to get it to dump the 12 lines of info?
3111 2011-07-15 18:59:29 <genewitch> getinfo
3112 2011-07-15 18:59:30 <genewitch> dur
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3115 2011-07-15 19:00:29 <genewitch> "version" : 32200,  2.6.38-8-virtual #42-Ubuntu SMP x86_64, no idea what triggers the crash
3116 2011-07-15 19:00:33 <genewitch> ersi: no swap
3117 2011-07-15 19:00:52 <genewitch> turning on swap would cost me a ton of money per month and i am not willing to spend money on this venture
3118 2011-07-15 19:00:59 <gmaxwell> genewitch: well, you're running an old version. Though I'm not thinking of any crash fixes off the top of my head.
3119 2011-07-15 19:01:15 <gmaxwell> oh wait... are you running out of memory?
3120 2011-07-15 19:01:19 <genewitch> gmaxwell: i can get a new version, it's just a straight upgrade, right?
3121 2011-07-15 19:01:31 <genewitch> gmaxwell: no idea, it says bitcoind is using 14%
3122 2011-07-15 19:01:48 <gmaxwell> Yea, the upgrade is boring-easy.
3123 2011-07-15 19:01:53 <genewitch> ok let me do that
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3127 2011-07-15 19:04:41 <genewitch> gmaxwell: "version" : 32400,
3128 2011-07-15 19:05:07 <genewitch> ;bc;;stats
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3132 2011-07-15 19:06:23 <colin_> gmaxwell: In my debug.log I'm getting a lot of: ProcessMessage(inv, 37 bytes) : CHECKSUM ERROR nChecksum=adb99219 hdr.nChecksum=00000101
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3134 2011-07-15 19:07:05 <gmaxwell> colin_: o_o
3135 2011-07-15 19:07:49 <colin_> gmaxwell: Is.. Is that bad? :o
3136 2011-07-15 19:08:08 <gmaxwell> colin_: Well, it seems to indicate that _something_ is busted, but I don't know what.
3137 2011-07-15 19:08:48 <gmaxwell> I see none of those in the last 24 hours on a public facing node.
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3139 2011-07-15 19:10:41 <colin_> gmaxwell: Well, that's not too good. Should I try reinstalling, then restoring my wallet.dat?
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3142 2011-07-15 19:11:16 <gmaxwell> colin_: I think it's indicating that the network traffic is being corrupted.
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3146 2011-07-15 19:21:47 <Blitzboom> we are satoshi
3147 2011-07-15 19:21:49 <Blitzboom> expect us
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3168 2011-07-15 19:57:48 <diki> per getwork, how many nonces can you try?
3169 2011-07-15 19:58:24 <diki> luke has been talking about some kind of 4 gigahashes or something...
3170 2011-07-15 20:00:42 <ewal> otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|2^32 without incrementing the ntime
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3178 2011-07-15 20:07:48 <ewal> otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|and since you can increment the ntime once per second, that means you only run out if you have enough hash power to go through 4 billion (2^32) hashes in one secong (4GH/s)
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3185 2011-07-15 20:10:49 <gmaxwell> ewal|otg: you can increment it much faster than once per second if you like.
3186 2011-07-15 20:11:09 <gmaxwell> You just can't get more than two hours into the future.
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3188 2011-07-15 20:11:53 <gmaxwell> ewal|otg: but there is no reason to do that, you should be updating the merkle tree from time to time to gather more transactions.
3189 2011-07-15 20:12:08 MC-Eeepc has joined
3190 2011-07-15 20:12:48 <ewal> otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|gmaxwell: I think the discussion (at least luke's part) was in the context of a miner for a pool who doesn't control the merkle tree and wants to be able to do as much as possible with as many miners as possible with as few getwork requests as possible
3191 2011-07-15 20:13:16 <diki> is there a bit more info on this ntime thing?
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3198 2011-07-15 20:16:59 <Zagitta> diki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm look at the ntime = timestamp afaik
3199 2011-07-15 20:17:17 <diki> what does that exactly do when mining?
3200 2011-07-15 20:18:36 <phantomcircuit> diki, it's basically an extended nonce which is cheaper than changing extranonce (but onyl a bit)
3201 2011-07-15 20:19:01 <gmaxwell> diki: normally it's a timestamp, it gets updated periodically.
3202 2011-07-15 20:19:11 cdecker has joined
3203 2011-07-15 20:19:15 <diki> and if you dont?
3204 2011-07-15 20:19:30 <gmaxwell> But you can increment it when the nonce runs out, so long as your bitcoind is setup in a way where that won't result in duplicates.
3205 2011-07-15 20:19:49 emock has joined
3206 2011-07-15 20:19:55 <gmaxwell> diki: if you don't _ever_ change it you blocks will eventually violate the rules.
3207 2011-07-15 20:19:59 <diki> so basically, you try the 2^32 nonces, then this ntime is incremented and you try them again?
3208 2011-07-15 20:20:00 <gmaxwell> But why would you not change it?
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3210 2011-07-15 20:20:50 <gmaxwell> or try fewer nonces and update it the next time the cpu interupts to make the time more accurate. Doesn't really matter.
3211 2011-07-15 20:21:27 <mtrlt> or just increment the time every second
3212 2011-07-15 20:21:34 <mtrlt> and let the nonces roll around
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3216 2011-07-15 20:22:54 <WakiMiko2> the bitcoin client remembers a list of nodes it was connected to when shutting down, right?
3217 2011-07-15 20:23:14 <gmaxwell> WakiMiko2: it remembers the nodes its talked to and the ones its heard of.
3218 2011-07-15 20:23:21 <WakiMiko2> ok, thanks
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3220 2011-07-15 20:24:42 <diki> it's not like i am very techy to know how this ntime works
3221 2011-07-15 20:24:53 <diki> but luke said, you dont even have time to try out all the nonces
3222 2011-07-15 20:25:05 <mtrlt> yea unless you have 2^32 H/s of hashpower
3223 2011-07-15 20:25:14 <mtrlt> but in one machine it's not really possible :P
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3225 2011-07-15 20:25:49 <diki> so, when you mine, you try out a few nonces, and then this ntime updates
3226 2011-07-15 20:25:56 <diki> and you start all over?
3227 2011-07-15 20:26:06 <mtrlt> you can start from nonce 0 or just keep going :P
3228 2011-07-15 20:26:24 <mtrlt> doesn't really matter as long as you don't try the same nonce with the same ntime twice
3229 2011-07-15 20:27:07 <gmaxwell> diki: would you please give up on this starting over rubbish. No work is lost when you set the nonce back to zero, because none was conserved in the first place.
3230 2011-07-15 20:27:24 <gmaxwell> All that matters is that no one in the world ever hashes the same whole blockheader twice.
3231 2011-07-15 20:27:32 emock has quit (Quit: emock)
3232 2011-07-15 20:27:40 <gmaxwell> so long as thats true then there is no waste.
3233 2011-07-15 20:28:45 <diki> doesnt a cpu miner waste work?
3234 2011-07-15 20:29:00 <diki> a gpu on avg finds at least one hash < target in a single getwork
3235 2011-07-15 20:29:08 <diki> while my cpu does not and requests new work
3236 2011-07-15 20:29:34 <ewal> otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|yes, that was what luke was suggesting a solution to.  take one getwork and divide up portions of the "nonce space" to many slow CPU miners.
3237 2011-07-15 20:29:51 <diki> and is it not what i suggested to change cgminer to?
3238 2011-07-15 20:30:04 <ewal> otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|I have no idea what you suggested :)
3239 2011-07-15 20:30:08 <diki> each thread to work on the same getwork, but split the nonces to try per thread?
3240 2011-07-15 20:30:11 <gmaxwell> diki: no, a gpu doesn't find one hash less than the network target in a single getwork. That would be fantastic.
3241 2011-07-15 20:30:12 Happy0 is now known as GORDON_MARTIN
3242 2011-07-15 20:30:13 <diki> this is for cpu
3243 2011-07-15 20:30:27 <gmaxwell> diki: no a CPU miner wastes nothing. There is no waste.
3244 2011-07-15 20:30:44 <diki> i was not talking to you gmax
3245 2011-07-15 20:30:47 <diki> but to ewal
3246 2011-07-15 20:30:52 <ewal> otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|CPU power on the pool server creating getwork responses is what is wasted
3247 2011-07-15 20:31:27 GORDON_MARTIN is now known as Happy0
3248 2011-07-15 20:31:42 <diki> still, is my suggestion not almost the same as luke's?
3249 2011-07-15 20:31:49 <gmaxwell> ewal|otg: sure, but it's pretty insignificant, two sha-256 operations unless the pool is kinda broken.
3250 2011-07-15 20:32:26 <gmaxwell> ewal|otg: luke's complication is, I guess, that he does some stupidly expensive operations in getwork, and doesn't cache it between subsiquent near getworks.
3251 2011-07-15 20:32:30 <ewal> otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|luke's pool is more complicated than a normal pool because each getwork response has to have a generate transaction figured out that includes the latest balances of all of the pool members who are due payment
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3253 2011-07-15 20:33:10 <gmaxwell> ewal|otg: he could simply save that and only update that every N seconds, only updating the extranonce on getworks that are sooner than that deadline.
3254 2011-07-15 20:33:15 <ewal> otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|and he has a person with a corporate farm of CPU miners that he wants to allow to connect but doesn't want 6000 getwork requests from 6000 individual CPU miners
3255 2011-07-15 20:34:10 <jrmithdobbs> i hope whoever is setting that up gets caught and fired
3256 2011-07-15 20:34:18 <upb> hmmmmmmm corporate farm...
3257 2011-07-15 20:34:25 <gmaxwell> ewal|otg: you'd still have the tcp connections and longpools for that though.
3258 2011-07-15 20:34:30 <upb> is it a russian spamming corporation by any chance ?
3259 2011-07-15 20:34:34 <b4epoche> is this Mr Botnet Mpower ?
3260 2011-07-15 20:34:35 <diki> if i were to give a gpu and a cpu absolutely the same getwork, gpu will be the fastest, but due to this ntime, will the cpu eventually produce the same hash?
3261 2011-07-15 20:34:37 <jgarzik> sounds like a euphemism for "botnet"
3262 2011-07-15 20:34:38 <jgarzik> yeah
3263 2011-07-15 20:34:43 <gmaxwell> ewal|otg: really an intermediate proxy would be better.
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3265 2011-07-15 20:35:00 <b4epoche> because that ass ddos'd me this morning for calling him out…
3266 2011-07-15 20:35:05 <jrmithdobbs> jgarzik: even if it is in a corporate setting i doubt the power costs for said endeavor have been approved
3267 2011-07-15 20:35:10 <b4epoche> he admitted he runs a botnet with MrDD
3268 2011-07-15 20:35:13 <ewal> otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|gmaxwell: right.  that's what he was suggesting a proposal for.  a way for a proxy to make a single getwork request and divide it up between many miners.
3269 2011-07-15 20:35:44 <gmaxwell> ewal|otg: might as well make that work by simply rolling ntime for them... no protocol change required.
3270 2011-07-15 20:35:49 <ewal> otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|regarding it being a botnet, you'd have to ask luke.  I am only repeating the details as I understand them from eavesdropping in IRC
3271 2011-07-15 20:35:57 <b4epoche> btw, please don't help Mpower with his pool...
3272 2011-07-15 20:36:40 <b4epoche> and why he wasn't banned this morning for his behavior is /way/ beyond me
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3275 2011-07-15 20:37:20 <gmaxwell> b4epoche: you got ddosed? thats nuts.
3276 2011-07-15 20:37:51 <gmaxwell> What idiots. Botnet opertors could probably operate completely unnoticed and profitably, if only they'd keep the freeking DDOS attacks in their pants.
3277 2011-07-15 20:38:33 <b4epoche> yea, it was crazy this morning
3278 2011-07-15 20:38:54 <b4epoche> sent me threatening pm and then internet died...
3279 2011-07-15 20:39:07 <b4epoche> check the logs…  interesting reading
3280 2011-07-15 20:40:12 ivan has quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
3281 2011-07-15 20:40:25 Fairuser is now known as AFK!~Fairuser@static-50-53-33-113.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net|Fairuser
3282 2011-07-15 20:40:28 <nanotube> b4epoche: that's why people get freenode cloaks :)
3283 2011-07-15 20:40:43 <b4epoche> they won't cloak me
3284 2011-07-15 20:40:55 <nanotube> why not?
3285 2011-07-15 20:40:55 <diki> Cloak Engaged
3286 2011-07-15 20:41:02 <nanotube> freenode gives out unaffiliated cloaks to anyone
3287 2011-07-15 20:41:08 <jrmithdobbs> nanotube: they wouldn't to me
3288 2011-07-15 20:41:10 <b4epoche> "too new" or something
3289 2011-07-15 20:41:30 <gmaxwell> b4epoche: wow, well he was banned at least
3290 2011-07-15 20:41:31 <gmaxwell> 04:45 -!- mode/#bitcoin-dev [+b *!*Me@195.20.207.*] by BlueMatt
3291 2011-07-15 20:41:31 <gmaxwell> 04:45 -!- Mpower was kicked from #bitcoin-dev by BlueMatt [learn to stfu and keep your botnet crap out of the chan]
3292 2011-07-15 20:41:44 <jrmithdobbs> nanotube: but then, i had my original registered nickserv account frozen until it was old enough to deactivate and give to someone else
3293 2011-07-15 20:41:51 <diki> luke==mpower?
3294 2011-07-15 20:41:52 <gmaxwell> Also, don't IRC from home.
3295 2011-07-15 20:41:54 <jrmithdobbs> nanotube: lilo didn't like me ;p
3296 2011-07-15 20:41:58 <b4epoche> "due to the potential for abuse we will ocassionally ask very new accounts to wait a short while before we will cloak them"
3297 2011-07-15 20:42:11 <nanotube> well, it's usually a week or two
3298 2011-07-15 20:42:15 <nanotube> not like months or anything
3299 2011-07-15 20:42:28 <b4epoche> but he lifted the ban
3300 2011-07-15 20:42:29 <jrmithdobbs> nanotube: they outright refused me because 'it was too much work'
3301 2011-07-15 20:42:30 <jrmithdobbs> lol
3302 2011-07-15 20:42:36 <b4epoche> and then the ddos'ing started again
3303 2011-07-15 20:42:42 <nanotube> jrmithdobbs: wut? weird
3304 2011-07-15 20:43:09 <nanotube> jrmithdobbs: just ask again
3305 2011-07-15 20:43:10 <nanotube> heh
3306 2011-07-15 20:43:16 <jrmithdobbs> nanotube: i've been glined from freenode a few times tho (lilo really didn't like me)
3307 2011-07-15 20:43:19 <jrmithdobbs> meh, d/c
3308 2011-07-15 20:43:58 ivan has joined
3309 2011-07-15 20:44:24 <nanotube> heh well... never hurts to ask again...
3310 2011-07-15 20:44:56 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: well that particular problem is no more, ::shrugs::
3311 2011-07-15 20:45:35 <jrmithdobbs> nanotube: if they have a big enough botnet that speaks ipv6 then i'll happily take the ddos tbqh ;p
3312 2011-07-15 20:45:46 <nanotube> heh
3313 2011-07-15 20:46:00 <gmaxwell> hah. v6 as a way to avoid botnet ddos.
3314 2011-07-15 20:46:09 <gmaxwell> Thats actually a quite interesting idea!
3315 2011-07-15 20:46:20 <gmaxwell> at least for a little while. :)
3316 2011-07-15 20:46:33 <b4epoche> gmaxwell:  note that Mpower is still here…  BlueMatt unbanned him (for whatever reason)
3317 2011-07-15 20:46:39 <luke-jr> gmaxwell: it works pretty well
3318 2011-07-15 20:47:12 gim has joined
3319 2011-07-15 20:47:43 <gmaxwell> I assume the existing miner software just works (tm) with v6?
3320 2011-07-15 20:47:46 Beremat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3321 2011-07-15 20:47:47 <diki> so
3322 2011-07-15 20:47:58 <diki> my cpu is at it's third getwork and still no hahs
3323 2011-07-15 20:48:01 <diki> reason?
3324 2011-07-15 20:48:13 <diki> make that forth
3325 2011-07-15 20:48:19 <diki> my gpu would've found a few already
3326 2011-07-15 20:48:32 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3327 2011-07-15 20:49:07 <diki> 5th now
3328 2011-07-15 20:49:08 Beremat has joined
3329 2011-07-15 20:49:57 <diki> if the cpu really didn't waste any getworks, it would've found something
3330 2011-07-15 20:50:08 <diki> i hate my adhd, otherwise i would've fix this somehow
3331 2011-07-15 20:50:24 <diki> s/fix/fixed
3332 2011-07-15 20:50:57 v_y has joined
3333 2011-07-15 20:51:02 <Zagitta_> probably because copying data to the gpu is kinda expensive so to keep the preformance up they go through the whole nonce, extranonce and maybe even ntime untill a certain amount of time have passed and extra transactions might have occured
3334 2011-07-15 20:51:06 Blitzboom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3335 2011-07-15 20:51:42 <v_y> how do i go from scriptPubKey at the +50 transaction in a block to the destination  address?
3336 2011-07-15 20:52:00 <diki> what does a transaction have to do with the whole mining process?
3337 2011-07-15 20:52:57 <Zagitta_> diki: read the first line under the table: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block_hashing_algorithm
3338 2011-07-15 20:53:15 <gmaxwell> diki: because your gpu is faster, so it's calculated more hashes in a given amount of time. Thats all there is to it.
3339 2011-07-15 20:53:38 <diki> then please say it wastes work
3340 2011-07-15 20:54:27 <upb> 15 14:20 < Mpower> Laugh Out Loud b4epoche when u get ur self a botnet then making at least 20k$ month
3341 2011-07-15 20:54:30 <upb> 15 14:20 < Mpower> start talking whats smart and whatsnot
3342 2011-07-15 20:54:33 <upb> 15 14:20 < Mpower> anyway u r off
3343 2011-07-15 20:54:35 <upb> hahahahahahha
3344 2011-07-15 20:54:49 <b4epoche> and he's still here...
3345 2011-07-15 20:55:00 <jgarzik> b4epoche: scroll up 6 lines
3346 2011-07-15 20:55:12 <b4epoche> oh, thanks...
3347 2011-07-15 20:55:23 rynx has joined
3348 2011-07-15 20:55:27 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3349 2011-07-15 20:55:35 <b4epoche> and MrDD is his buddy…  but he seems to have disappeared
3350 2011-07-15 20:55:46 maikmerten has quit (Quit: Leaving)
3351 2011-07-15 20:55:55 <b4epoche> I knew something was up with them when they claimed this morning they didn't know each other
3352 2011-07-15 20:56:22 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3353 2011-07-15 20:57:26 iserdo has joined
3354 2011-07-15 20:58:09 BlueMatt has joined
3355 2011-07-15 20:58:37 Fuehrer has joined
3356 2011-07-15 20:58:38 Fuehrer has quit (Changing host)
3357 2011-07-15 20:58:38 Fuehrer has joined
3358 2011-07-15 21:00:23 Fuehrer is now known as Fireball
3359 2011-07-15 21:00:24 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3360 2011-07-15 21:00:26 skeledrew has joined
3361 2011-07-15 21:00:59 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3362 2011-07-15 21:01:28 molecular has joined
3363 2011-07-15 21:01:52 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
3364 2011-07-15 21:02:01 Beccara has joined
3365 2011-07-15 21:03:16 <b4epoche> [16:58:36] <Mpower> for reall
3366 2011-07-15 21:03:17 <b4epoche> [16:58:41] <Mpower> i can just put u in mind
3367 2011-07-15 21:03:17 <b4epoche> [16:58:59] <Mpower> then u would cry being damned.
3368 2011-07-15 21:03:24 <b4epoche> nice fella, eh?
3369 2011-07-15 21:03:25 Blitzboom has joined
3370 2011-07-15 21:03:25 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
3371 2011-07-15 21:03:25 Blitzboom has joined
3372 2011-07-15 21:03:35 <diki> how does bitcoin verify if a hash has been hashed twice?
3373 2011-07-15 21:03:46 <diki> erm...block header
3374 2011-07-15 21:04:11 PPilate has joined
3375 2011-07-15 21:04:17 Zoiah_ has joined
3376 2011-07-15 21:04:38 jgarzik_ has joined
3377 2011-07-15 21:04:50 <jrmithdobbs> diki: how do you not get the basics still 2 months later
3378 2011-07-15 21:04:52 <jrmithdobbs> seriously
3379 2011-07-15 21:05:03 <diki> adhd probably
3380 2011-07-15 21:05:20 <jrmithdobbs> your question doesn't even make sense
3381 2011-07-15 21:05:31 <b4epoche> sorry, but this is too funny:
3382 2011-07-15 21:05:32 <b4epoche> [17:01:10] <Mpower> i can read what ur posting in channel ediot
3383 2011-07-15 21:05:32 <b4epoche> [17:01:13] <Mpower> i dont care a fuck
3384 2011-07-15 21:05:32 <b4epoche> [17:01:23] <Mpower> but u will care,
3385 2011-07-15 21:05:32 <b4epoche> [17:01:27] <Mpower> now u asked for it.
3386 2011-07-15 21:05:35 <jrmithdobbs> (per normal)
3387 2011-07-15 21:05:45 <diki> b4epoche:ediot?
3388 2011-07-15 21:05:48 <diki> new word?
3389 2011-07-15 21:05:48 <jgarzik_> ...and now I cannot login as 'jgarzik'
3390 2011-07-15 21:05:50 <jgarzik_> yawn
3391 2011-07-15 21:05:53 <jgarzik_> IRC stupidity
3392 2011-07-15 21:05:57 hahuang65 has quit ()
3393 2011-07-15 21:06:41 b4epoche has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3394 2011-07-15 21:07:17 b4epoche has joined
3395 2011-07-15 21:07:38 <b4epoche> the ediot's trying to ddos psu.edu
3396 2011-07-15 21:07:50 <gmaxwell> jgarzik_: you can use the ghost command to nickerserv to recover the name.
3397 2011-07-15 21:07:59 freakazoid has joined
3398 2011-07-15 21:08:06 erus` has joined
3399 2011-07-15 21:08:36 <Fireball> jgarzik_ - try /ns release jgarzik, if ghosting doesn't work
3400 2011-07-15 21:08:45 <luke-jr> I wish generation could have inputs :p
3401 2011-07-15 21:08:50 <jgarzik_> Fireball: just did that
3402 2011-07-15 21:08:54 <Fireball> tower just helped me with the same problem
3403 2011-07-15 21:08:58 <jgarzik_> Fireball: now jgarzik is 'temporarily unavailable'
3404 2011-07-15 21:09:06 b4epoche has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3405 2011-07-15 21:09:14 <upb> 195.20.207.194:80 has a nice modified ircd for irc C&C :P
3406 2011-07-15 21:09:41 <Fireball> I had temp unavailable, and /ns release Fireball worked like a charm really
3407 2011-07-15 21:10:17 <gmaxwell> upb: you should report the botnet operations to GleSYS Internet Services AB, I suppose.
3408 2011-07-15 21:10:30 <gmaxwell> oh nice are they attacking freenode now?
3409 2011-07-15 21:10:40 <jgarzik_> Fireball: I continue to release, and it continues to be temporarily unavailable
3410 2011-07-15 21:10:43 <jgarzik_> oh well
3411 2011-07-15 21:10:51 <jgarzik_> not a big deal
3412 2011-07-15 21:10:52 dr_win has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3413 2011-07-15 21:11:44 Zoiah_ is now known as Zoiah
3414 2011-07-15 21:12:22 b4epoche has joined
3415 2011-07-15 21:13:17 BlueMattBot has joined
3416 2011-07-15 21:13:23 Fireball has quit (Quit: ROS is the power.)
3417 2011-07-15 21:13:46 Fireball has joined
3418 2011-07-15 21:13:49 jgarzik_ is now known as jgarzik
3419 2011-07-15 21:13:54 Fireball has quit (Changing host)
3420 2011-07-15 21:13:55 Fireball has joined
3421 2011-07-15 21:14:00 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
3422 2011-07-15 21:14:00 jgarzik has joined
3423 2011-07-15 21:14:04 <Zagitta_> this is odd... i've run my share checker through the last 1000 blocks and it reports H != 0 on some of them :/
3424 2011-07-15 21:14:29 huk has joined
3425 2011-07-15 21:14:29 huk has quit (Client Quit)
3426 2011-07-15 21:14:37 huk has joined
3427 2011-07-15 21:15:17 nullrouten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3428 2011-07-15 21:15:23 Fireball has quit (Client Quit)
3429 2011-07-15 21:15:45 <b4epoche> any thoughts of moving this channel to a server/channel that doesn't attract riffraff?
3430 2011-07-15 21:16:04 nullrouten has joined
3431 2011-07-15 21:17:01 Fireball has joined
3432 2011-07-15 21:17:35 <upb> like efnet ?:P
3433 2011-07-15 21:17:43 <upb> ddos paradise
3434 2011-07-15 21:17:55 <BlueMatt> we could go back to lfnet, which is the bitcoin irc net
3435 2011-07-15 21:17:59 <BlueMatt> run by laszlo
3436 2011-07-15 21:18:02 <BlueMatt> the one the nodes connect to
3437 2011-07-15 21:18:10 <b4epoche> or something 'private'
3438 2011-07-15 21:18:16 <BlueMatt> lfnet is private
3439 2011-07-15 21:18:20 <BlueMatt> its only used by bitcoin
3440 2011-07-15 21:18:22 <b4epoche> oh, nice
3441 2011-07-15 21:18:26 <jgarzik> I'm not worried
3442 2011-07-15 21:18:29 <CIA-103> bitcoin: various listtx_generate_fold * r0e9758..f23f9a bitcoind-personal/ (77 files in 23 dirs): (132 commits) http://tinyurl.com/62ek73l
3443 2011-07-15 21:18:38 Phsy-Ops has joined
3444 2011-07-15 21:18:39 <BlueMatt> though seriously, freenode tends to be good
3445 2011-07-15 21:18:48 larsivi has joined
3446 2011-07-15 21:18:51 <jgarzik> whereever you go, cockroaches like Mpower will find the channel
3447 2011-07-15 21:18:58 <BlueMatt> all the floss have channels here
3448 2011-07-15 21:19:05 <Phsy-Ops> Hello
3449 2011-07-15 21:19:12 <luke-jr> would like reviews of output from listtx_generate_fold
3450 2011-07-15 21:19:19 <luke-jr> proposed change to JSON-RPC format
3451 2011-07-15 21:19:27 Cryo has joined
3452 2011-07-15 21:19:33 <jgarzik> just letting The Process do its work, and being a good open source project, works well enough, albeit with temporary interruptions
3453 2011-07-15 21:19:44 <luke-jr> (code might only be draft-quality)
3454 2011-07-15 21:19:51 Phsy-Ops has left ()
3455 2011-07-15 21:19:54 Cryo is now known as Guest82468
3456 2011-07-15 21:20:11 <BlueMatt> what were gavin's plans re getting bitcoin into some floss org, or did he decide against that?
3457 2011-07-15 21:20:34 citiz3n has joined
3458 2011-07-15 21:20:46 <b4epoche> yea, probably just best to sit tight and let mpower use his botnet in more productive ways (for him)
3459 2011-07-15 21:22:02 Guest82468 has quit (Changing host)
3460 2011-07-15 21:22:02 Guest82468 has joined
3461 2011-07-15 21:22:04 osmosis has joined
3462 2011-07-15 21:22:41 <luke-jr> http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/w/bitcoind/luke-jr.git/commitdiff/0e97588d41a77846b3f1acaed7fd9c63653a0188
3463 2011-07-15 21:23:00 <jrmithdobbs> what does listtx_generate_fold do?
3464 2011-07-15 21:23:30 erus` has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3465 2011-07-15 21:23:37 wardearia has joined
3466 2011-07-15 21:24:25 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: reformats listtransactions output
3467 2011-07-15 21:25:00 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: category: send/receive/move; from:"generation" for generate; status:orphan/validating/processing/confirmed/expired
3468 2011-07-15 21:26:22 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,getblocks
3469 2011-07-15 21:26:23 <gribble> Error: "bc,getblocks" is not a valid command.
3470 2011-07-15 21:26:28 erus` has joined
3471 2011-07-15 21:26:32 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,getblock
3472 2011-07-15 21:26:32 <gribble> Error: "bc,getblock" is not a valid command.
3473 2011-07-15 21:26:38 <jrmithdobbs> erm wtf
3474 2011-07-15 21:27:10 <jrmithdobbs> ;;bc,blocks
3475 2011-07-15 21:27:11 <gribble> 136461
3476 2011-07-15 21:28:33 Guest82468 is now known as Cryo
3477 2011-07-15 21:29:00 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
3478 2011-07-15 21:30:26 molecular has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
3479 2011-07-15 21:31:58 <Zagitta_> Chain download 99% done Chain download 99% done Chain download 99% done  Process is terminated due to StackOverflowException.
3480 2011-07-15 21:31:59 kermit has joined
3481 2011-07-15 21:32:02 <Zagitta_> :(
3482 2011-07-15 21:32:14 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
3483 2011-07-15 21:34:09 devon_hillard has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3484 2011-07-15 21:34:11 uzyn has quit (Quit: uzyn)
3485 2011-07-15 21:35:57 karnac has joined
3486 2011-07-15 21:36:35 stuhood has joined
3487 2011-07-15 21:36:52 <diki> oh man, deleted a ton of crap from my c drive
3488 2011-07-15 21:37:45 <BlueMatt> lol c drive, I remember those
3489 2011-07-15 21:37:59 stuhood has left ()
3490 2011-07-15 21:38:22 <BlueMatt> seriously you need to learn to use linux
3491 2011-07-15 21:38:45 <Fireball> [01:33] <...> oh man, deleted a ton of crap from my /home
3492 2011-07-15 21:38:47 <Fireball> :)
3493 2011-07-15 21:39:11 <jrmithdobbs> you $HOME
3494 2011-07-15 21:39:15 <jrmithdobbs> s/you/you mean/
3495 2011-07-15 21:39:35 <Fireball> yeah
3496 2011-07-15 21:39:36 <jrmithdobbs> if you're gonna linux dickwave at least be semantically correct guys
3497 2011-07-15 21:40:25 <jrmithdobbs> using linux as a desktop is pretty much the opposite of something to be proud of anyways ;p
3498 2011-07-15 21:40:43 <Zagitta_> i'm with ya on that one
3499 2011-07-15 21:40:44 <Fireball> it's not an os made for desktops
3500 2011-07-15 21:40:56 <Fireball> it's an os for servers
3501 2011-07-15 21:41:10 <JunK-Y> Fireball: false!
3502 2011-07-15 21:41:41 <Fireball> JunK-Y - sorry, but that's true
3503 2011-07-15 21:41:47 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: ::shrugs:: depends on how you use the computer.
3504 2011-07-15 21:41:51 rynx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3505 2011-07-15 21:42:13 <luke-jr> wow, fail
3506 2011-07-15 21:42:15 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: being "proud" of any os choice for a desktop isn't exactly a good quality period ;p
3507 2011-07-15 21:42:23 <luke-jr> KDE is the best desktop on the market these days
3508 2011-07-15 21:42:30 <gmaxwell> I use a browser and a zillion terminals for coding, doing signal processing, ssh into remote hosts, etc. Linux works just fine for this.
3509 2011-07-15 21:42:32 Jefff has joined
3510 2011-07-15 21:42:36 <gmaxwell> okay, now that much is a good point.
3511 2011-07-15 21:42:39 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: if by best you mean ugliest, sure
3512 2011-07-15 21:42:54 <luke-jr> jrmithdobbs: LOL, far from it
3513 2011-07-15 21:42:56 <Fireball> haha, OS holywars came to bitcoin too
3514 2011-07-15 21:43:08 <luke-jr> KDE looks however you want, and quite nice out of the box
3515 2011-07-15 21:43:11 <JunK-Y> Fireball: but i still love you!
3516 2011-07-15 21:43:22 <Fireball> JunK-Y - thanks
3517 2011-07-15 21:43:22 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: the "looks however you want" part is exactly my point
3518 2011-07-15 21:43:41 <jrmithdobbs> luke-jr: most people what their desktop to look attrocious and kde accomodates them and makes my point valid
3519 2011-07-15 21:43:45 Titeuf_87 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3520 2011-07-15 21:43:47 <jrmithdobbs> s/what/want/
3521 2011-07-15 21:43:57 <luke-jr> no, n00b
3522 2011-07-15 21:44:17 <Fireball> I will suggest reactos as a desktop OS of course :P
3523 2011-07-15 21:44:23 * luke-jr facepalms
3524 2011-07-15 21:44:40 <diki> damn
3525 2011-07-15 21:44:42 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3526 2011-07-15 21:44:44 <diki> my windows got snappier
3527 2011-07-15 21:44:50 <luke-jr> people need to stop using BAHT for BTC
3528 2011-07-15 21:45:12 * luke-jr votes B⃦
3529 2011-07-15 21:45:32 <gmaxwell> How about © ? :)
3530 2011-07-15 21:45:43 <jrmithdobbs> i vote btc
3531 2011-07-15 21:45:49 TheZimm has joined
3532 2011-07-15 21:45:52 <jrmithdobbs> fuck your moonlanguage non-ascii crap
3533 2011-07-15 21:46:03 <luke-jr> ASCII is lame
3534 2011-07-15 21:46:05 <luke-jr> ☺
3535 2011-07-15 21:46:23 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs is not a friend of mojibake?
3536 2011-07-15 21:47:11 <jgarzik> Fireball: how well does reactos work these days?
3537 2011-07-15 21:47:26 * diki remebers tsonicos
3538 2011-07-15 21:47:32 <jrmithdobbs> ‸̵̵̧̊̊̃‸̵̵̵̵̧̱̱̱̣̌̊̆̌̆̆̃̌̌̋̆̃̃‸̱̣̋̋̃̆‸̧̣̱̱̱̌̋̌̌‸‸̵̱̱̃̊̆‸̧̆̃̊‸̱̆‸̧̧̱̣̱̆̃‸̱̌‸̵̵̵̵̵̵̧̧̧̧̧̧̣̱̣̣̣̣̱̣̃̊̊̃̃̋̋̊̌̊̃̆̋̋̌̋
3539 2011-07-15 21:47:36 <jrmithdobbs> ‸̵̵̧̊̊̃‸̵̵̵̵̧̱̱̱̣̌̊̆̌̆̆̃̌̌̋̆̃̃‸̱̣̋̋̃̆‸̧̣̱̱̱̌̋̌̌‸‸̵̱̱̃̊̆‸̧̆̃̊‸̱̆‸̧̧̱̣̱̆̃‸̱̌‸̵̵̵̵̵̵̧̧̧̧̧̧̣̱̣̣̣̣̱̣̃̊̊̃̃̋̋̊̌̊̃̆̋̋̌̋
3540 2011-07-15 21:47:40 <jrmithdobbs> ‸̵̵̧̊̊̃‸̵̵̵̵̧̱̱̱̣̌̊̆̌̆̆̃̌̌̋̆̃̃‸̱̣̋̋̃̆‸̧̣̱̱̱̌̋̌̌‸‸̵̱̱̃̊̆‸̧̆̃̊‸̱̆‸̧̧̱̣̱̆̃‸̱̌‸̵̵̵̵̵̵̧̧̧̧̧̧̣̱̣̣̣̣̱̣̃̊̊̃̃̋̋̊̌̊̃̆̋̋̌̋
3541 2011-07-15 21:47:44 <jrmithdobbs> ‸̵̵̧̊̊̃‸̵̵̵̵̧̱̱̱̣̌̊̆̌̆̆̃̌̌̋̆̃̃‸̱̣̋̋̃̆‸̧̣̱̱̱̌̋̌̌‸‸̵̱̱̃̊̆‸̧̆̃̊‸̱̆‸̧̧̱̣̱̆̃‸̱̌‸̵̵̵̵̵̵̧̧̧̧̧̧̣̱̣̣̣̣̱̣̃̊̊̃̃̋̋̊̌̊̃̆̋̋̌̋
3542 2011-07-15 21:47:48 <jrmithdobbs> ‸̵̵̧̊̊̃‸̵̵̵̵̧̱̱̱̣̌̊̆̌̆̆̃̌̌̋̆̃̃‸̱̣̋̋̃̆‸̧̣̱̱̱̌̋̌̌‸‸̵̱̱̃̊̆‸̧̆̃̊‸̱̆‸̧̧̱̣̱̆̃‸̱̌‸̵̵̵̵̵̵̧̧̧̧̧̧̣̱̣̣̣̣̱̣̃̊̊̃̃̋̋̊̌̊̃̆̋̋̌̋
3543 2011-07-15 21:47:52 <jrmithdobbs> ‸̵̵̧̊̊̃‸̵̵̵̵̧̱̱̱̣̌̊̆̌̆̆̃̌̌̋̆̃̃‸̱̣̋̋̃̆‸̧̣̱̱̱̌̋̌̌‸‸̵̱̱̃̊̆‸̧̆̃̊‸̱̆‸̧̧̱̣̱̆̃‸̱̌‸̵̵̵̵̵̵̧̧̧̧̧̧̣̱̣̣̣̣̱̣̃̊̊̃̃̋̋̊̌̊̃̆̋̋̌̋
3544 2011-07-15 21:47:56 <jrmithdobbs> ‸̵̵̧̊̊̃‸̵̵̵̵̧̱̱̱̣̌̊̆̌̆̆̃̌̌̋̆̃̃‸̱̣̋̋̃̆‸̧̣̱̱̱̌̋̌̌‸‸̵̱̱̃̊̆‸̧̆̃̊‸̱̆‸̧̧̱̣̱̆̃‸̱̌‸̵̵̵̵̵̵̧̧̧̧̧̧̣̱̣̣̣̣̱̣̃̊̊̃̃̋̋̊̌̊̃̆̋̋̌̋
3545 2011-07-15 21:48:05 jrmithdobbs has joined
3546 2011-07-15 21:48:08 * diki slaps jrmithdobbs around a bit with a large trout
3547 2011-07-15 21:48:13 <jrmithdobbs> that flood made a valid point, thx
3548 2011-07-15 21:48:39 Fireball has quit (Quit: ROS is the power.)
3549 2011-07-15 21:49:34 <diki> bitcoin is very fast
3550 2011-07-15 21:49:37 Titeuf_87 has joined
3551 2011-07-15 21:49:39 <phantomcircuit> i vote BTC and fuck ISO
3552 2011-07-15 21:49:41 <diki> it's been 5 minutes and no gui
3553 2011-07-15 21:49:42 IO-afk is now known as IO-
3554 2011-07-15 21:49:52 <Zagitta_> What exactly is the biggest load on pool servers? handling all the http connections that keep getting initialized due to no keep-alive?
3555 2011-07-15 21:50:02 <phantomcircuit> Zagitta_, more or less
3556 2011-07-15 21:50:09 v_y has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
3557 2011-07-15 21:50:22 <IO-> I just started bench testing today
3558 2011-07-15 21:50:40 <IO-> I can get about 420 GET's/SEC before I get gateway timeouts
3559 2011-07-15 21:51:16 <IO-> I'm not sure how many GET's/sec a miner usually uses
3560 2011-07-15 21:51:36 <jrmithdobbs> 1
3561 2011-07-15 21:51:47 <jrmithdobbs> 1-2
3562 2011-07-15 21:51:48 <IO-> per GPU or per mining app?
3563 2011-07-15 21:51:59 <phantomcircuit> mining app obviously
3564 2011-07-15 21:51:59 <jrmithdobbs> per gpu
3565 2011-07-15 21:52:06 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, lol wat
3566 2011-07-15 21:52:09 <phantomcircuit> seriously?
3567 2011-07-15 21:52:12 <IO-> makes sense
3568 2011-07-15 21:52:14 <phantomcircuit> that's fucktarded
3569 2011-07-15 21:52:14 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: yup
3570 2011-07-15 21:52:20 <IO-> each GPU gets different work
3571 2011-07-15 21:52:32 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: ~300Mhash/s is ~1/s
3572 2011-07-15 21:52:35 <phantomcircuit> oh
3573 2011-07-15 21:52:41 <phantomcircuit> it's based on overall hashrate
3574 2011-07-15 21:52:45 <phantomcircuit> yeah that makes sense
3575 2011-07-15 21:53:03 <jrmithdobbs> not just that
3576 2011-07-15 21:53:18 <jrmithdobbs> because each gpu gets it's own set of work
3577 2011-07-15 21:53:35 <IO-> lets do some math!
3578 2011-07-15 21:53:41 <jrmithdobbs> anything doing >= ~300Mhash/s needs at least 1/s to stay busy
3579 2011-07-15 21:53:56 <Zagitta_> if people absolutly insist on using json-rcp can't we at least give miners a bunch of getwork replies in one batch?
3580 2011-07-15 21:54:22 <IO-> that means one pool can handle about 1.2T/s if that math is right
3581 2011-07-15 21:54:33 <IO-> 1Th/s to be safe
3582 2011-07-15 21:55:02 <IO-> did I fuck that math up? 420GETS/s (1sec) * 300Mhs 1.26Ths
3583 2011-07-15 21:55:08 vorlov has quit (Quit: vorlov)
3584 2011-07-15 21:55:29 <jrmithdobbs> per bitcoind maybe
3585 2011-07-15 21:55:34 <IO-> ya
3586 2011-07-15 21:55:41 <IO-> per bitcoind = ~420
3587 2011-07-15 21:55:49 <jrmithdobbs> sounds about right
3588 2011-07-15 21:55:52 <IO-> tcp4 settings changed a ton
3589 2011-07-15 21:55:58 v_y has joined
3590 2011-07-15 21:56:01 <jrmithdobbs> depending on hardware
3591 2011-07-15 21:56:03 <IO-> timewaits reduced a lot, timeouts reduced
3592 2011-07-15 21:56:18 <jrmithdobbs> actually no it doesn't
3593 2011-07-15 21:56:28 <IO-> tcp mem increased and buffers also
3594 2011-07-15 21:56:34 <Zagitta_> asuming you use bitcoind wich is quite a stupid thing from a software design point of view imo
3595 2011-07-15 21:56:39 <jrmithdobbs> well, i dunno, i never through that much hash power at an unpatched bitcoind
3596 2011-07-15 21:56:43 <jrmithdobbs> because i knew it wouldn't work ;p
3597 2011-07-15 21:56:51 <IO-> the bottleneck seems to be the amount of tcp connections being made and timeouts
3598 2011-07-15 21:56:51 <jrmithdobbs> s/through/threw/
3599 2011-07-15 21:57:20 <jrmithdobbs> nah, rpc-async-io patch takes that number up significantly
3600 2011-07-15 21:57:24 <phantomcircuit> it's actually really easy to handle shittons of tcp connections
3601 2011-07-15 21:57:25 <IO-> I have 3 pool servers balanced to start and I can add 8 more
3602 2011-07-15 21:57:33 <phantomcircuit> but most people just dont know how to do it
3603 2011-07-15 21:57:36 <phantomcircuit> which is lulz
3604 2011-07-15 21:57:47 <jrmithdobbs> problem isn't the os, it's the bitcoind rpc code
3605 2011-07-15 21:57:49 <IO-> i have a patched bitcoind with the rpc patch
3606 2011-07-15 21:58:02 <IO-> does it even reuse connections?
3607 2011-07-15 21:58:30 <phantomcircuit> what you want to do is calculate the getwork values yourself
3608 2011-07-15 21:58:35 <IO-> i'm about to start throwing traffic at em again
3609 2011-07-15 21:59:30 <jrmithdobbs> my geode 450 can handle >450req/s serving static content ;p
3610 2011-07-15 21:59:45 <phantomcircuit> lol @ geode
3611 2011-07-15 21:59:47 <jrmithdobbs> so ya, it's seriously not the os level
3612 2011-07-15 21:59:47 AStove has quit ()
3613 2011-07-15 22:00:02 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: my geode is awesome and you're jealous admit it
3614 2011-07-15 22:00:17 <jjjx> Are there any issues compiling Bitcoin for PPC Mac OS X 10.5 ?
3615 2011-07-15 22:00:30 <phantomcircuit> my i3-2100 can do 10k requests/second with apache
3616 2011-07-15 22:00:32 <jrmithdobbs> yes it wont work
3617 2011-07-15 22:00:36 <jrmithdobbs> jjjx: ^
3618 2011-07-15 22:00:38 <jjjx> jrmithdobbs: Jolly good then.
3619 2011-07-15 22:00:48 <jjjx> What needs to be patched to make it work?
3620 2011-07-15 22:00:57 <jrmithdobbs> jjjx: it'll probably build, but it wont actually function
3621 2011-07-15 22:01:16 <jrmithdobbs> jjjx: the entirety of the netcode, for starters
3622 2011-07-15 22:01:28 <jrmithdobbs> (bitcoin speaks le over the wire)
3623 2011-07-15 22:01:34 devon_hillard has joined
3624 2011-07-15 22:01:52 graingert has quit (Disconnected by services)
3625 2011-07-15 22:01:59 <jrmithdobbs> jjjx: the encoding functions
3626 2011-07-15 22:02:05 <gmaxwell> jjjx: you'll have to rewrite a good chunk of it.
3627 2011-07-15 22:02:05 <jrmithdobbs> jjjx: the script functions
3628 2011-07-15 22:02:06 <jjjx> Lawd.
3629 2011-07-15 22:02:18 <jrmithdobbs> basically 80% of the code
3630 2011-07-15 22:02:22 <gmaxwell> There are lots of things where in memory representations get hashed.
3631 2011-07-15 22:02:25 graingert_ has joined
3632 2011-07-15 22:02:25 <jjjx> :-) Well fuck that then.
3633 2011-07-15 22:02:34 <phantomcircuit> [124664.696818] TCP: Possible SYN flooding on port 81. Sending cookies.
3634 2011-07-15 22:02:40 <phantomcircuit> i love seeing that when benchmarking shit
3635 2011-07-15 22:02:41 glassresistor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3636 2011-07-15 22:02:46 Beccara_ has joined
3637 2011-07-15 22:03:30 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: where?
3638 2011-07-15 22:03:36 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: most of that stuff is actually the easy part
3639 2011-07-15 22:03:39 <phantomcircuit> lighttpd serving 1 static file never used > 4KB of ram
3640 2011-07-15 22:03:40 <phantomcircuit> rofl
3641 2011-07-15 22:03:46 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: since they get converted into bignums (be) first
3642 2011-07-15 22:04:14 <jrmithdobbs> you'd just have to fix the handling of the bignum conversion to not destroy the data
3643 2011-07-15 22:04:24 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: I have no idea where all the places are — but the obvious giveaway is that it gets a different hash for the genesis block!
3644 2011-07-15 22:04:38 <jrmithdobbs> i'm not entirely sure it would
3645 2011-07-15 22:04:42 <phantomcircuit> you do
3646 2011-07-15 22:04:43 <phantomcircuit> lol
3647 2011-07-15 22:04:47 <phantomcircuit> it's *everywhere*
3648 2011-07-15 22:04:57 <phantomcircuit> le<->be<->le<->be
3649 2011-07-15 22:05:05 <jrmithdobbs> actually
3650 2011-07-15 22:05:14 <gmaxwell> jrmithdobbs: it does! try it out. :)
3651 2011-07-15 22:05:42 <gmaxwell> when you run on ppc it bombs out on the checkpoint check for the genesis block because the hash value is different.
3652 2011-07-15 22:05:51 <jrmithdobbs> a lot of it *claims* to be le<->be<->le<->be but is actually le<->be<->le or le<->be<->le<->be<->le
3653 2011-07-15 22:05:54 <jrmithdobbs> lol
3654 2011-07-15 22:06:00 <jrmithdobbs> confusing as fuck
3655 2011-07-15 22:06:15 Beccara has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3656 2011-07-15 22:06:27 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: ya but is that because it's computing the checksum wrong or because the hardcoded checksum gets inverted? ;p
3657 2011-07-15 22:07:13 <jrmithdobbs> gmaxwell: see what i mean?
3658 2011-07-15 22:07:19 maxnbk has joined
3659 2011-07-15 22:07:27 JFK911 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3660 2011-07-15 22:07:32 JFK911 has joined
3661 2011-07-15 22:07:50 <jrmithdobbs> i don't have a ppc box handy (my dead ibook needs a new ata drive)
3662 2011-07-15 22:08:20 <jrmithdobbs> and no i didn't mean sata
3663 2011-07-15 22:09:13 <phantomcircuit> interesting
3664 2011-07-15 22:09:27 <phantomcircuit> lighttpd is about 50% faster than apache/nginx at serving a static file on this system
3665 2011-07-15 22:09:37 <phantomcircuit> 15k requests/second vs 10k
3666 2011-07-15 22:09:52 <phantomcircuit> surprising that nginx is just as fast as apache
3667 2011-07-15 22:10:50 <phantomcircuit> oh
3668 2011-07-15 22:10:55 <phantomcircuit> [125155.178529] nf_conntrack: table full, dropping packet.
3669 2011-07-15 22:11:31 clr_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3670 2011-07-15 22:11:39 danbri has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
3671 2011-07-15 22:11:47 <jjjx> Anyone know the irssi command to split windows offhand?
3672 2011-07-15 22:12:16 maxnbk has left ()
3673 2011-07-15 22:12:40 freakazoid has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3674 2011-07-15 22:13:15 freakazoid has joined
3675 2011-07-15 22:13:19 danbri has joined
3676 2011-07-15 22:14:14 <phantomcircuit> lol nvm
3677 2011-07-15 22:14:14 d4de has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3678 2011-07-15 22:14:15 <phantomcircuit> Requests per second:    5748.66 [#/sec] (mean)
3679 2011-07-15 22:14:17 <phantomcircuit> apache sucks
3680 2011-07-15 22:15:13 <IO-> static files are easy to serve fast
3681 2011-07-15 22:15:24 jine has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3682 2011-07-15 22:15:32 ersi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3683 2011-07-15 22:15:43 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: apache has to pass through a lot of very useful logic is why it's slower
3684 2011-07-15 22:15:50 <IO-> my 420/sec was pulling real GETWORK from the real network
3685 2011-07-15 22:15:58 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: throw any kind of processing into the mix on lighttpd and it slows down just as much
3686 2011-07-15 22:16:07 <phantomcircuit> yeah that's true
3687 2011-07-15 22:16:26 <gmaxwell> "use the right tool for the job"
3688 2011-07-15 22:16:34 SiliWar has joined
3689 2011-07-15 22:17:12 <jrmithdobbs> hate that "lighttpd is SO MUCH FASTER THAN APACHE" crap
3690 2011-07-15 22:17:27 <jrmithdobbs> sure, it is, if you're just serving static conetnt and not letting httpd rewrite url or anything
3691 2011-07-15 22:17:30 <jrmithdobbs> heh
3692 2011-07-15 22:17:49 <phantomcircuit> yeah
3693 2011-07-15 22:17:54 <phantomcircuit> but that is what im doing
3694 2011-07-15 22:17:55 <phantomcircuit> lol
3695 2011-07-15 22:17:55 <IO-> 1463 connections in 60seconds, 406/sec, no lost work or gateway timeouts. i can do better to
3696 2011-07-15 22:18:29 <phantomcircuit> whoever was DDoSing deepbit was pretty incompetent
3697 2011-07-15 22:18:44 <phantomcircuit> you can DDoS them without swamping their bandwidth pretty trivially
3698 2011-07-15 22:18:54 <prof7bit> any C gurus here?
3699 2011-07-15 22:19:00 <phantomcircuit> define guru
3700 2011-07-15 22:19:07 <sipa> better to just ask your question
3701 2011-07-15 22:19:14 <sipa> maybe a non guru knows the answe
3702 2011-07-15 22:19:15 <sipa> r
3703 2011-07-15 22:19:16 <phantomcircuit> sipa, shh we were playing a game
3704 2011-07-15 22:19:17 <prof7bit> #define OBJ_secp256k1           OBJ_secg_ellipticCurve,10L  <-- what kind of strange syntax is this, what is defined here?
3705 2011-07-15 22:19:27 <phantomcircuit> lol
3706 2011-07-15 22:19:28 <prof7bit> the comma and the 10L
3707 2011-07-15 22:19:33 <jrmithdobbs> huh
3708 2011-07-15 22:19:33 <phantomcircuit> it's just a hack
3709 2011-07-15 22:19:38 <jrmithdobbs> it's not strange?
3710 2011-07-15 22:19:39 <sipa> macros are simply substitutions
3711 2011-07-15 22:19:45 <sipa> and , is valid operator
3712 2011-07-15 22:20:02 <prof7bit> i am trying to translate this header into something readable.
3713 2011-07-15 22:20:10 <phantomcircuit> prof7bit, it literally replaces all occurances of the text "OBJ_secp256k1" with "OBJ_secg_ellipticCurve,10L
3714 2011-07-15 22:20:11 <phantomcircuit> ""
3715 2011-07-15 22:20:12 <jrmithdobbs> what header?
3716 2011-07-15 22:20:38 <jrmithdobbs> openssl?
3717 2011-07-15 22:20:41 <jrmithdobbs> cause don't bother ;p
3718 2011-07-15 22:20:43 <prof7bit> yes
3719 2011-07-15 22:20:44 <gmaxwell> Thats not even an especially frightening macro—
3720 2011-07-15 22:20:52 <sipa> show me a place where that macro is used
3721 2011-07-15 22:21:09 <jrmithdobbs> it's used in crypto/ec/*
3722 2011-07-15 22:21:23 jine has joined
3723 2011-07-15 22:21:33 <jrmithdobbs> in the stuff that builds out EC_KEY and EC_CURVE
3724 2011-07-15 22:21:41 <jrmithdobbs> err EC_GROUP not CURVE
3725 2011-07-15 22:21:49 <prof7bit> i dont yet know whether I need it. Just translating a bunch of headers until the ECDSA example runs
3726 2011-07-15 22:21:54 ersi has joined
3727 2011-07-15 22:22:27 <jrmithdobbs> if you're trying to re-implement ec you don't
3728 2011-07-15 22:23:00 <jrmithdobbs> that's internals semantics for how it abstracts the functions to work with different curves
3729 2011-07-15 22:23:08 d4de has joined
3730 2011-07-15 22:23:13 <prof7bit> btw they [openssl] are using an enum in the struct EC_KEY that is meant to be used by programs that link to this lib. I assume this is always stored 32 bit?
3731 2011-07-15 22:23:32 <jrmithdobbs> i wouldn't assume that
3732 2011-07-15 22:23:34 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Nick Welch master * r90ca0e4 / (3 files): Launch java with 'exec'. ... https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/90ca0e4a16d5fa7f66c8e7b1c97fcae3b4ec4ae5
3733 2011-07-15 22:23:34 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r88653e5 / (3 files): Merge pull request #25 from mackstann/master ... https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/88653e5639434bf40081c94c2d00fc099bf30648
3734 2011-07-15 22:23:45 <prof7bit> how can they the put it into their API?
3735 2011-07-15 22:23:49 eoss has joined
3736 2011-07-15 22:23:56 <jrmithdobbs> what do you mean?
3737 2011-07-15 22:24:15 <prof7bit> how should i use this struct if i dont know how big it is?
3738 2011-07-15 22:24:26 Zarutian has joined
3739 2011-07-15 22:24:28 <sipa> is it a pointer to a struct?
3740 2011-07-15 22:24:31 <sipa> or the struct itself?
3741 2011-07-15 22:24:41 Tiraspol has joined
3742 2011-07-15 22:24:41 <sipa> ie. does the type definition include a '*
3743 2011-07-15 22:24:43 <sipa> '
3744 2011-07-15 22:24:55 <jrmithdobbs> the definition will compile the same from the header on the same machine, for one thing
3745 2011-07-15 22:24:55 <Tiraspol> Current Blocks: 136463 | Current Difficulty: 1564057.4508376 | Next Difficulty At Block: 137087 | Next Difficulty In: 624 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 0 hours, 12 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1666037.60089461
3746 2011-07-15 22:25:01 <prof7bit> i get a pointer bt at one poiunt i have to acces key->group
3747 2011-07-15 22:25:02 <Tiraspol> Anyone know how that information is generated?
3748 2011-07-15 22:25:12 lumos has joined
3749 2011-07-15 22:25:14 <sipa> ask nanotube
3750 2011-07-15 22:25:17 <jrmithdobbs> and ya, most of the stuff in the api headers use pointers to structs, you're not supposed to manip the structs themselves
3751 2011-07-15 22:25:28 lumos has left ("Leaving")
3752 2011-07-15 22:25:31 <prof7bit> it will not compile at all. because i am using pascal.
3753 2011-07-15 22:25:32 <jrmithdobbs> you use the api functions to set all those values
3754 2011-07-15 22:26:23 <jrmithdobbs> why would you do that to yourself
3755 2011-07-15 22:26:31 <prof7bit> http://www.openssl.org/docs/crypto/ecdsa.html
3756 2011-07-15 22:26:39 <prof7bit> the example at the bottom
3757 2011-07-15 22:26:55 <prof7bit> they are poking aroun in the key obect
3758 2011-07-15 22:27:13 <prof7bit> how would i do this correctly?
3759 2011-07-15 22:27:30 <sipa> it's probably in some public header file
3760 2011-07-15 22:27:51 <jrmithdobbs> actually
3761 2011-07-15 22:28:00 <jrmithdobbs> iirc those examples don't work outside of the lib itself
3762 2011-07-15 22:28:00 <jrmithdobbs> lol
3763 2011-07-15 22:28:06 RAM2012 has joined
3764 2011-07-15 22:28:09 <jrmithdobbs> openssl api docs are crap ;p
3765 2011-07-15 22:28:25 <sipa> openssl is not an api
3766 2011-07-15 22:28:28 <prof7bit> also EC_GROUP_new_by_nid() is defined nowhere
3767 2011-07-15 22:28:30 <sipa> it is a bunch of functions
3768 2011-07-15 22:29:03 <prof7bit> i assume i should use EC_GROUP_new_by_curve_name()
3769 2011-07-15 22:29:10 <jrmithdobbs> those examples work inside the lib itself or if you include headers that aren't actually usually copied to /usr/include
3770 2011-07-15 22:29:39 larsivi has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3771 2011-07-15 22:29:56 <jrmithdobbs> there's functions that set/get all those values for you if you dig around
3772 2011-07-15 22:30:04 SiliWar has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3773 2011-07-15 22:30:17 <jrmithdobbs> prof7bit: for getting grep for get0 in crypto/ec
3774 2011-07-15 22:30:18 eternal1 has joined
3775 2011-07-15 22:30:28 <jrmithdobbs> prof7bit: setting depends on the specific case
3776 2011-07-15 22:30:43 <phantomcircuit> prof7bit, openssl is easy, forget about the docs, read the header files
3777 2011-07-15 22:30:44 <phantomcircuit> heh
3778 2011-07-15 22:30:55 <phantomcircuit> your first misstep was trying to use the docs at all
3779 2011-07-15 22:31:07 <jrmithdobbs> for some of the ec stuff it's actually easier to read the actual impl instead of the headers
3780 2011-07-15 22:31:10 <jrmithdobbs> heh
3781 2011-07-15 22:31:14 <sipa> jrmithdobbs: exactly
3782 2011-07-15 22:31:22 asuk has joined
3783 2011-07-15 22:31:34 <prof7bit> speaking of examples... is there an example anywhere for proper usage with some example data and example output so I can easily test whether my pascal translation actually works?
3784 2011-07-15 22:31:37 <jrmithdobbs> s/some/most/
3785 2011-07-15 22:31:49 <jrmithdobbs> no
3786 2011-07-15 22:32:43 shLONG has joined
3787 2011-07-15 22:32:44 <jrmithdobbs> prof7bit: best bet would be to dig through the make test target of the install
3788 2011-07-15 22:32:49 <sipa> you'll use EC_KEY_new_by_curve_name(NID_secp256k1)
3789 2011-07-15 22:32:59 <sipa> which returns a EC_KEY*
3790 2011-07-15 22:33:04 <sipa> so you don't need its size
3791 2011-07-15 22:33:16 <prof7bit> ok, i'll try to find this function
3792 2011-07-15 22:33:27 <phantomcircuit> iirc there is actually a short function for that
3793 2011-07-15 22:33:37 <sipa> it's in ec.h
3794 2011-07-15 22:33:42 <jrmithdobbs> no that is the short function
3795 2011-07-15 22:33:46 <upb> 16 01:22 < prof7bit> it will not compile at all. because i am using pascal.
3796 2011-07-15 22:33:49 <upb> porting openssl ?:P
3797 2011-07-15 22:33:50 <upb> haha
3798 2011-07-15 22:34:02 <sipa> EC isn't that hard to implement
3799 2011-07-15 22:34:07 <prof7bit> i'm porting only some headers
3800 2011-07-15 22:34:13 <sipa> maybe it's easier than trying to link to openssl :)
3801 2011-07-15 22:34:16 <phantomcircuit> it's basically 2 bignum multiplies right?
3802 2011-07-15 22:34:28 <sipa> an EC multiplication is quite a bit more
3803 2011-07-15 22:34:37 <sipa> than a bignum multiplication
3804 2011-07-15 22:34:51 <phantomcircuit> <-- never actually bothered to learn how ec works
3805 2011-07-15 22:34:51 <phantomcircuit> heh
3806 2011-07-15 22:34:57 <phantomcircuit> ecc
3807 2011-07-15 22:34:59 <phantomcircuit> *
3808 2011-07-15 22:35:27 <prof7bit> i found a native pascal implementation yesterday and also a big integer library but something seemed wrong with it. it did not use the b parameter.
3809 2011-07-15 22:35:40 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: the "long" way to create a EC_GROUP using EC_GROUP_new() then setting it, then EC_POINT_new(yourgroup) the EC_KEY_new() and EC_KEY_set_group(yourkey,yourgroup)
3810 2011-07-15 22:35:49 JackStorm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3811 2011-07-15 22:35:57 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: is probably what you're thinking of ;p
3812 2011-07-15 22:36:02 <phantomcircuit> jrmithdobbs, oh wow
3813 2011-07-15 22:36:07 <phantomcircuit> also lol @ openssl malloc
3814 2011-07-15 22:36:11 <sipa> right, the "short" way
3815 2011-07-15 22:36:11 <phantomcircuit> that shit is just ridiculous
3816 2011-07-15 22:36:22 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
3817 2011-07-15 22:36:33 <jrmithdobbs> why do you say that? it's not that bad
3818 2011-07-15 22:37:05 <phantomcircuit> makes it hard to handle some things
3819 2011-07-15 22:37:16 <jrmithdobbs> also, i'm surprising myself with how much of the openssl stuff i actually understand/remember off the top of my head, lol
3820 2011-07-15 22:37:44 nemesis51 is now known as away!~nemesis@178-25-106-201-dynip.superkabel.de|nemesis51
3821 2011-07-15 22:37:47 <jrmithdobbs> phantomcircuit: only if you're using some bastard language like c++
3822 2011-07-15 22:37:54 <phantomcircuit> ;)
3823 2011-07-15 22:38:01 <prof7bit> i assume i will need openssl anyways, i already use it for sha256 and ripemd160 and it would also be needed by lNet should I ever decide to do something with SSL, so i decided to link it against openssl and do all the crypto stuff with openssl and not try to implement anything myself
3824 2011-07-15 22:38:15 mosimo has joined
3825 2011-07-15 22:38:33 <sipa> that's probably the best way
3826 2011-07-15 22:38:39 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3827 2011-07-15 22:39:35 Blojack has joined
3828 2011-07-15 22:40:02 <jrmithdobbs> prof7bit: you could just use a non-dead language that already has the bindings you need ;p
3829 2011-07-15 22:40:21 <prof7bit> i am not using a dead language.
3830 2011-07-15 22:40:29 <prof7bit> i am using pascal.
3831 2011-07-15 22:41:07 <Blojack> Why not implement it in bash?
3832 2011-07-15 22:41:14 <gmaxwell> Are the comments in latin?
3833 2011-07-15 22:41:19 <prof7bit> its younger than C++ has more features, is nicer and less error prone. and actively developed while C++ is slowly dying.
3834 2011-07-15 22:41:19 <sipa> Blojack: someone did that :)
3835 2011-07-15 22:41:25 <Blojack> jrmithdobbs could help
3836 2011-07-15 22:41:30 skeledrew has joined
3837 2011-07-15 22:42:02 <phantomcircuit> lolololol
3838 2011-07-15 22:42:06 huk has quit ()
3839 2011-07-15 22:42:56 <RAM2012> c++ is dying? jesus I write all my supercomputer code in c++
3840 2011-07-15 22:43:08 <BTCTrader> prof7bit: i am not using a dead language.
3841 2011-07-15 22:43:09 <BTCTrader> [3:37pm] prof7bit: i am using pascal.
3842 2011-07-15 22:43:09 <prof7bit> porting C headers to Pascal is hard. Its a process of decreasing the entropy. making order and beauty out of chaos and disorder. This is hard. The other way is easy of course, thats why everyone is doing it.
3843 2011-07-15 22:43:10 <BTCTrader> LOL
3844 2011-07-15 22:43:11 CheapScotsman has joined
3845 2011-07-15 22:43:36 <Blojack> Can someone help mpower set up his pool so his botnet can work on mining instead ddos'ing me?
3846 2011-07-15 22:43:55 <gmaxwell> Blojack: why is he dosing you?
3847 2011-07-15 22:44:16 * Blojack b4epoche
3848 2011-07-15 22:44:52 <Blojack> Sorry forgot to change nick
3849 2011-07-15 22:45:07 <gmaxwell> oh
3850 2011-07-15 22:45:11 <prof7bit> when I am done with this EC thing then there will be documentation.
3851 2011-07-15 22:45:11 ewal has quit (otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|Quit: ewal|otg)
3852 2011-07-15 22:45:31 <prof7bit> and beautiful pascal code.
3853 2011-07-15 22:45:45 <gmaxwell> Parse error.
3854 2011-07-15 22:46:00 <RAM2012> that 1% of coders will know how what it means...
3855 2011-07-15 22:46:11 <prof7bit> no
3856 2011-07-15 22:46:14 <Blojack> If you want readable code see objc
3857 2011-07-15 22:46:15 stuhood has joined
3858 2011-07-15 22:46:24 <prof7bit> actually pascal is extremely easy to read
3859 2011-07-15 22:46:34 <prof7bit> even for C programmers
3860 2011-07-15 22:46:43 <sipa> the easiest language is always the one you already know
3861 2011-07-15 22:46:44 <gmaxwell> Unless you want to know the order of operations of various operators.
3862 2011-07-15 22:46:45 <RAM2012> I prefer Mathematica
3863 2011-07-15 22:46:59 danieldaniel has joined
3864 2011-07-15 22:47:06 <danieldaniel> Hello
3865 2011-07-15 22:47:11 <danieldaniel> I was wondering the following:
3866 2011-07-15 22:47:14 <Blojack> RAM2012: me to!
3867 2011-07-15 22:47:20 <danieldaniel> How would I extract my private key
3868 2011-07-15 22:47:26 <danieldaniel> from my bitcoin address?
3869 2011-07-15 22:47:29 <RAM2012> actually Mathematica is a fucking strong tool.
3870 2011-07-15 22:47:35 <sipa> danieldaniel: you can't obviously
3871 2011-07-15 22:47:40 <sipa> danieldaniel: an address is public
3872 2011-07-15 22:47:41 <phantomcircuit> mathematica is boss
3873 2011-07-15 22:47:43 <danieldaniel> I mean
3874 2011-07-15 22:47:44 <danieldaniel> like
3875 2011-07-15 22:47:45 <sipa> a private key is eh... private
3876 2011-07-15 22:47:50 <phantomcircuit> lol
3877 2011-07-15 22:47:51 <danieldaniel> my private key
3878 2011-07-15 22:47:53 <danieldaniel> for my wallet
3879 2011-07-15 22:47:54 <danieldaniel> sorry
3880 2011-07-15 22:48:01 <sipa> you can use my showwallet branch
3881 2011-07-15 22:48:01 <danieldaniel> Did not word it correctly
3882 2011-07-15 22:48:02 <phantomcircuit> uh
3883 2011-07-15 22:48:02 <danieldaniel> :)
3884 2011-07-15 22:48:02 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
3885 2011-07-15 22:48:03 <phantomcircuit> wat
3886 2011-07-15 22:48:09 <danieldaniel> Well, when I tried
3887 2011-07-15 22:48:11 <sipa> it includes an rpc call dumpprivkey
3888 2011-07-15 22:48:13 <danieldaniel> it would not compile
3889 2011-07-15 22:48:14 <Blojack> Funny my wife is enjoying this ddos'ing
3890 2011-07-15 22:48:18 <danieldaniel> on my mac
3891 2011-07-15 22:48:24 <gmaxwell> Mathematic is too often inexplicable. Change something around it it goes from taking one second, to taking 10 years to solve something...
3892 2011-07-15 22:48:25 <phantomcircuit> Blojack, wat?
3893 2011-07-15 22:48:28 <gmaxwell> er mathematica.
3894 2011-07-15 22:48:32 <sipa> danieldaniel: does the mainline release compile?
3895 2011-07-15 22:48:39 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, that's how math works xD
3896 2011-07-15 22:48:40 <danieldaniel> One sec, lemme check
3897 2011-07-15 22:48:51 <Blojack> No Internet for kids
3898 2011-07-15 22:48:54 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: yea, but it's extra inexplicable sometimes.
3899 2011-07-15 22:48:56 <RAM2012> yeah, mathematica is definitely a bitch. But you can't do virtual x-ray spectroscopy with MATLAB lol
3900 2011-07-15 22:48:58 <danieldaniel> can you give me a link to it?
3901 2011-07-15 22:49:01 stuhood has left ()
3902 2011-07-15 22:49:01 <sipa> danieldaniel: if you didn't spend at least half an hour tracing all dependencies and stuff, it probably won't
3903 2011-07-15 22:49:11 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
3904 2011-07-15 22:49:29 <gmaxwell> RAM2012: sure you can, matlab's scripting is turing complete... :)
3905 2011-07-15 22:50:03 <RAM2012> yeah but it doesn't support complex integrals very well. And it refuses to solve transcendental equations
3906 2011-07-15 22:50:21 skeledrew has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3907 2011-07-15 22:50:21 <danieldaniel> wait
3908 2011-07-15 22:50:24 <CIA-103> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r1bcbb3f / src/main/resources/DiabloMiner.cl : Merge pull request #26 from mtrlt/master ... https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/1bcbb3fd85178692941b5e168aecf71e755a3909
3909 2011-07-15 22:50:25 <danieldaniel> how do I apply the patch
3910 2011-07-15 22:50:25 <Blojack> Symbol toolbox ftl
3911 2011-07-15 22:50:28 <danieldaniel> to my bitcoin?
3912 2011-07-15 22:50:40 skeledrew has joined
3913 2011-07-15 22:50:50 <danieldaniel> client*
3914 2011-07-15 22:51:01 <sipa> danieldaniel: you don't - you just use my branch :)
3915 2011-07-15 22:51:07 <danieldaniel> Where is it?
3916 2011-07-15 22:51:10 <danieldaniel> Can I havea link?
3917 2011-07-15 22:51:11 <Blojack> What matlab  can certainly solve numerically trans sans
3918 2011-07-15 22:51:12 <RAM2012> symbol tollkit is weak
3919 2011-07-15 22:51:17 <Blojack> Eqns
3920 2011-07-15 22:51:28 <danieldaniel> By the way, I appreciate the help!  :)
3921 2011-07-15 22:51:32 <prof7bit> <RAM2012> that 1% of coders will know how what it means...  <-- there is a whole generation of programmers who grew up with it. They are still alive.
3922 2011-07-15 22:51:34 <sipa> danieldaniel: git clone http://github.com/sipa/bitcoin.git; git checkout showallet
3923 2011-07-15 22:51:38 <danieldaniel> Thanks!
3924 2011-07-15 22:51:41 ewal has joined
3925 2011-07-15 22:51:43 <RAM2012> I struggled getting MATLAB to run my transcendental EQs with DLVO forces...
3926 2011-07-15 22:51:44 ewal has quit (otg!~ewal@pat-default.epic.com|Client Quit)
3927 2011-07-15 22:51:48 <Blojack> Sym toolbox is maple
3928 2011-07-15 22:51:58 <prof7bit> programmers! not "coderz"
3929 2011-07-15 22:52:00 <danieldaniel> How do I install git on a mac?
3930 2011-07-15 22:52:00 <danieldaniel> :)
3931 2011-07-15 22:52:08 <sipa> danieldaniel: go ask steve
3932 2011-07-15 22:52:12 <denisx> danieldaniel: install xcode4
3933 2011-07-15 22:52:16 <sipa> sorry, no idea :)
3934 2011-07-15 22:52:17 <Blojack> But I hate matlab foo
3935 2011-07-15 22:52:17 <danieldaniel> I have it
3936 2011-07-15 22:52:23 <denisx> then you have git
3937 2011-07-15 22:52:46 <danieldaniel> Its not working
3938 2011-07-15 22:52:47 <danieldaniel> but
3939 2011-07-15 22:52:51 <Blojack> danieldaniel: I can help when I'm not being ddos'd
3940 2011-07-15 22:52:54 <danieldaniel> can I just download a zip file?
3941 2011-07-15 22:52:57 <sipa> no
3942 2011-07-15 22:53:06 <sipa> unless someone is willing to make you one
3943 2011-07-15 22:53:23 <sipa> but getting your system configured to get the source to build is a lot harder than installing git
3944 2011-07-15 22:54:22 <danieldaniel> Im actually just gonna boot up linux
3945 2011-07-15 22:54:23 <danieldaniel> brb
3946 2011-07-15 22:54:37 <sipa> that'll be somewhat easier
3947 2011-07-15 22:55:39 <Blojack> explaining something with a virtual keyboard is kinda hard
3948 2011-07-15 22:56:03 <Blojack> what's danieldaniel trying to do?
3949 2011-07-15 22:56:20 <Blojack> just compile the client on a mac?
3950 2011-07-15 22:56:36 <sipa> yes
3951 2011-07-15 22:56:55 Beccara has joined
3952 2011-07-15 22:56:58 <phantomcircuit> he's attempting the impossible
3953 2011-07-15 22:57:08 <phantomcircuit> doing that which apple has not explicitly allowed
3954 2011-07-15 22:57:20 <Blojack> then I must be a friggin' genius
3955 2011-07-15 22:58:22 <RAM2012> I have a $6,000 mac computer at work. It cannot run a bitcoin miner other than the main client.
3956 2011-07-15 22:58:22 lumos has joined
3957 2011-07-15 22:58:33 Beccara_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
3958 2011-07-15 22:58:51 <Blojack> RAM2012: then you don't know what you're doing
3959 2011-07-15 22:59:01 lumos has left ("Leaving")
3960 2011-07-15 22:59:12 <RAM2012> its only Leopard, cannot be upgraded to Snow Leopard. No OpenCL
3961 2011-07-15 22:59:22 <phantomcircuit> RAM2012, ooh but i bet you can play minecraft at like 15 fps!
3962 2011-07-15 22:59:26 <Blojack> well, then it's not worth $6k now
3963 2011-07-15 22:59:27 <RAM2012> I'd love some advice though
3964 2011-07-15 22:59:28 <danieldaniel> sipa?
3965 2011-07-15 22:59:28 <IO-> can't OSX run diablo ok?
3966 2011-07-15 22:59:37 <danieldaniel> What exactly do I run?
3967 2011-07-15 22:59:42 <danieldaniel> I did those 2 commands
3968 2011-07-15 22:59:43 <Blojack> it runs diablo just fine
3969 2011-07-15 22:59:49 <RAM2012> I got Diablo2 running on my Lucid box this week. :) :) :)
3970 2011-07-15 22:59:53 <sipa> danieldaniel: yes?
3971 2011-07-15 22:59:55 <Blojack> no snow leopard means ppc
3972 2011-07-15 23:00:01 <danieldaniel> What do I run
3973 2011-07-15 23:00:04 <danieldaniel> after doing those commands
3974 2011-07-15 23:00:09 <sipa> i don't know
3975 2011-07-15 23:00:18 <sipa> i have no idea how you compile things on a mac
3976 2011-07-15 23:00:22 <danieldaniel> linux
3977 2011-07-15 23:00:25 <sipa> ah
3978 2011-07-15 23:00:27 eternal1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3979 2011-07-15 23:00:36 <RAM2012> I tried diablo miner, phoenix, garziks miner, nothing would run on that shitty Mac Leopard
3980 2011-07-15 23:00:53 eternal1 has joined
3981 2011-07-15 23:00:54 <sipa> danieldaniel: cd src; make -f makefile.unix
3982 2011-07-15 23:01:02 <danieldaniel> thanks!
3983 2011-07-15 23:01:37 <Blojack> RAM2012: you obviously have an old PPC machine...
3984 2011-07-15 23:01:41 <sipa> you'll probably need to install a bunch of dependencies first though
3985 2011-07-15 23:01:41 <danieldaniel> and it gives me 4000000 errors
3986 2011-07-15 23:01:42 <danieldaniel> :)
3987 2011-07-15 23:01:45 <danieldaniel> oh
3988 2011-07-15 23:01:48 <danieldaniel> that works
3989 2011-07-15 23:02:09 <Blojack> danieldaniel: why are you trying to compile it?
3990 2011-07-15 23:02:32 <sipa> yorick had a python tool that can do the same, danieldaniel
3991 2011-07-15 23:02:33 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r146 /branches/peergroup/src/com/google/bitcoin/ (9 files in 2 dirs): PeerGroup cleanup 2 http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r146/
3992 2011-07-15 23:02:35 <sipa> maybe that's easier?
3993 2011-07-15 23:02:37 <danieldaniel> What?
3994 2011-07-15 23:02:38 <danieldaniel> where?
3995 2011-07-15 23:02:43 skeledrew has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3996 2011-07-15 23:02:44 <sipa> search the forum
3997 2011-07-15 23:02:47 <danieldaniel> ok
3998 2011-07-15 23:03:11 <Blojack> are there no pre-built binaries?
3999 2011-07-15 23:03:35 <danieldaniel> i dont think so
4000 2011-07-15 23:03:42 <sipa> for what?
4001 2011-07-15 23:03:55 <Blojack> for whatever danieldaniel is using
4002 2011-07-15 23:04:03 <sipa> no, don't think so
4003 2011-07-15 23:04:38 <Blojack> he could grab my OSX build
4004 2011-07-15 23:04:45 <danieldaniel> :O
4005 2011-07-15 23:05:05 <sipa> well, if you can do a build of my showwallet branch, he'll be very happy i guess
4006 2011-07-15 23:05:11 <danieldaniel> I would be
4007 2011-07-15 23:05:20 <danieldaniel> :)
4008 2011-07-15 23:06:59 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r147 /branches/ (20 files in 7 dirs): Merge trunk into peerroup http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r147/
4009 2011-07-15 23:07:07 <Blojack> http://db.tt/Ps7Km4x
4010 2011-07-15 23:07:08 b4epoche has joined
4011 2011-07-15 23:07:15 <Blojack> that's OSX build
4012 2011-07-15 23:07:26 <danieldaniel> It just quits for some reason
4013 2011-07-15 23:07:27 <Blojack> hey, I'm back...
4014 2011-07-15 23:07:35 <sipa> that's cocoabitcoin?
4015 2011-07-15 23:07:58 <danieldaniel> What are the dependencies?
4016 2011-07-15 23:07:58 <Blojack> well, that's the one with all the exchange integration
4017 2011-07-15 23:08:00 <phantomcircuit> sipa, think qtbitcoin
4018 2011-07-15 23:08:23 <Blojack> dependencies for what?  linux or osx?
4019 2011-07-15 23:08:27 <danieldaniel> osx
4020 2011-07-15 23:08:37 <Blojack> they're all bundled
4021 2011-07-15 23:08:40 <sipa> danieldaniel: if it doesn't include showwallet, it won't be much good to him
4022 2011-07-15 23:08:49 <sipa> or you have that?
4023 2011-07-15 23:08:54 <danieldaniel> what?
4024 2011-07-15 23:09:01 <sipa> eh
4025 2011-07-15 23:09:05 <sipa> that was for Blojack
4026 2011-07-15 23:09:07 <danieldaniel> OH
4027 2011-07-15 23:09:11 <danieldaniel> fail caps lock
4028 2011-07-15 23:09:13 <danieldaniel> oh*
4029 2011-07-15 23:09:19 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4030 2011-07-15 23:09:58 <Blojack> oh, he needs to dump his wallet?
4031 2011-07-15 23:10:17 <danieldaniel> blo
4032 2011-07-15 23:10:20 <Blojack> bitcointools would probably be best bet, no?
4033 2011-07-15 23:10:21 <danieldaniel> It does not even run
4034 2011-07-15 23:10:21 <danieldaniel> D:
4035 2011-07-15 23:10:27 <CheapScotsman> Have any WIn7 miners learned how to overcome the GUIMiner CPU usage curse?
4036 2011-07-15 23:10:33 <Blojack> that osx client dumps qr codes of the privkeys though
4037 2011-07-15 23:10:54 <prof7bit> "dead language" ...
4038 2011-07-15 23:10:54 <Blojack> danieldaniel:   what version you running?
4039 2011-07-15 23:11:03 <danieldaniel> 10.6.7
4040 2011-07-15 23:11:10 BlueMattBot has joined
4041 2011-07-15 23:11:17 <Blojack> hold on...
4042 2011-07-15 23:11:27 <danieldaniel> ok
4043 2011-07-15 23:11:31 <Blojack> can you run console?
4044 2011-07-15 23:11:31 cdecker has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4045 2011-07-15 23:11:37 <danieldaniel> terminal?
4046 2011-07-15 23:11:37 <danieldaniel> Yeah
4047 2011-07-15 23:11:43 <Blojack> no console
4048 2011-07-15 23:11:48 <danieldaniel> console?
4049 2011-07-15 23:11:49 <Blojack> to see logs
4050 2011-07-15 23:11:52 <danieldaniel> Probably
4051 2011-07-15 23:11:52 <danieldaniel> Oh
4052 2011-07-15 23:11:55 <danieldaniel> where is it?
4053 2011-07-15 23:12:04 <Blojack>  /Applications/Utilities
4054 2011-07-15 23:12:06 <danieldaniel> found it
4055 2011-07-15 23:12:11 <danieldaniel> one sec
4056 2011-07-15 23:12:29 * prof7bit feels affronted
4057 2011-07-15 23:12:32 <Blojack> that might be a bad build but I could have sworn someone else was testing that one
4058 2011-07-15 23:13:06 nemesis51 is now known as nemesis51|away
4059 2011-07-15 23:13:23 eternal1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
4060 2011-07-15 23:13:42 eternal1 has joined
4061 2011-07-15 23:13:44 <danieldaniel> http://i.imgur.com/3WXVK.png
4062 2011-07-15 23:13:54 <Blojack> crap, still no internet
4063 2011-07-15 23:14:04 eternal1 has quit (Client Quit)
4064 2011-07-15 23:14:09 <danieldaniel> It gave me a few errors
4065 2011-07-15 23:14:11 <danieldaniel> in console
4066 2011-07-15 23:14:36 <danieldaniel> oh wow
4067 2011-07-15 23:14:38 <sipa> seems bitcoin is already running?
4068 2011-07-15 23:14:39 <danieldaniel> bitcoin was running
4069 2011-07-15 23:14:41 <sipa> some other version
4070 2011-07-15 23:14:42 <danieldaniel> that fixed it
4071 2011-07-15 23:14:50 <prof7bit> ECDSA_do_sign() <-- do i pass the message to this or the hash of the message?
4072 2011-07-15 23:15:17 <Blojack> ah, good, I was going to say those messages shouldn't be fatal
4073 2011-07-15 23:15:21 <danieldaniel> :)
4074 2011-07-15 23:15:28 <sipa> prof7bit: sha256(sha256(message))
4075 2011-07-15 23:15:32 <danieldaniel> wait
4076 2011-07-15 23:15:36 <prof7bit> ok
4077 2011-07-15 23:15:41 <danieldaniel> why are there 100 qr codes?
4078 2011-07-15 23:15:42 <danieldaniel> lol
4079 2011-07-15 23:15:49 <danieldaniel> Do I only need one?
4080 2011-07-15 23:15:52 <sipa> because you have 100 keys :D
4081 2011-07-15 23:15:55 <danieldaniel> D:
4082 2011-07-15 23:15:57 <Blojack> yep
4083 2011-07-15 23:16:02 <danieldaniel> Which one do I choose?
4084 2011-07-15 23:16:08 <sipa> the one you need
4085 2011-07-15 23:16:20 <danieldaniel> How do I know which one has my coins in it?
4086 2011-07-15 23:16:26 <Blojack> what exactly are you trying to do?
4087 2011-07-15 23:16:38 <danieldaniel> I want
4088 2011-07-15 23:16:38 <danieldaniel> to
4089 2011-07-15 23:16:42 <prof7bit> i ask because in one of the papers I read the hashing were actually *part* of the signing procedure.
4090 2011-07-15 23:16:42 <danieldaniel> have a QR code
4091 2011-07-15 23:16:46 <Blojack> they're probably in order
4092 2011-07-15 23:16:48 <danieldaniel> that I can scan in later
4093 2011-07-15 23:16:51 <danieldaniel> and get my coins
4094 2011-07-15 23:16:54 <sipa> prof7bit: it is
4095 2011-07-15 23:17:27 <sipa> not sure if openssl does another hashing step though
4096 2011-07-15 23:17:28 <prof7bit> so openssl will internally hash it once again while creating the signature?
4097 2011-07-15 23:17:35 <Blojack> that's a qr code of the base58 representation of the privacy
4098 2011-07-15 23:17:43 <Blojack> privkey
4099 2011-07-15 23:18:04 <sipa> prof7bit: i don't know, but you need to pass the double sha256 to ecdsa_do_sign
4100 2011-07-15 23:18:11 <prof7bit> ok
4101 2011-07-15 23:18:20 <Blojack> the top left one is probably the key you want
4102 2011-07-15 23:18:21 <prof7bit> this is actually what i need to know
4103 2011-07-15 23:19:50 magn3ts has quit (Quit: Leaving)
4104 2011-07-15 23:20:08 <danieldaniel> back
4105 2011-07-15 23:20:28 <danieldaniel> ok
4106 2011-07-15 23:20:30 <danieldaniel> thanks blo
4107 2011-07-15 23:20:40 <Blojack> danieldaniel: big picture what are you trying to do?
4108 2011-07-15 23:20:58 <danieldaniel> Trying to physically keep my bitcoins
4109 2011-07-15 23:21:10 <prof7bit> how is i2d_ECDSA_SIG() supposed to be used? do I call it twice, first with NULL to get the size and then allocate memory and pass a pointer to the pointer to the function and call it again?
4110 2011-07-15 23:21:31 <danieldaniel> afk
4111 2011-07-15 23:21:40 <Blojack> oh, okay... I thought you'd lost something
4112 2011-07-15 23:22:15 <Blojack> sorry but I really haven't implemented printing yet
4113 2011-07-15 23:22:39 <Blojack> but screenshot will work ;-)
4114 2011-07-15 23:22:52 kermit has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4115 2011-07-15 23:25:29 <danieldaniel> blo?  How do I import the keys?
4116 2011-07-15 23:25:29 <danieldaniel> lol
4117 2011-07-15 23:28:20 jgarzik has quit (Quit: restart xchat)
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4119 2011-07-15 23:28:56 jgarzik has quit (Changing host)
4120 2011-07-15 23:28:56 jgarzik has joined
4121 2011-07-15 23:29:01 <CIA-103> bitcoinj: miron@google.com * r148 /branches/peergroup/src/com/google/bitcoin/ (core/Peer.java examples/FetchBlock.java): Fix bug in FetchBlock introduced by peergroup merge http://bitcoinj.googlecode.com/svn-history/r148/
4122 2011-07-15 23:29:24 <IO-> cool
4123 2011-07-15 23:29:29 CheapScotsman has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4124 2011-07-15 23:29:32 danieldaniel has left ()
4125 2011-07-15 23:29:45 <sipa> prof7bit: exactly
4126 2011-07-15 23:29:48 mosimo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4127 2011-07-15 23:30:05 <prof7bit> ok
4128 2011-07-15 23:31:39 <jgarzik> sipa: we should poke gavin to review CBitcoinAddress
4129 2011-07-15 23:34:29 Blojack has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
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4132 2011-07-15 23:36:59 <prof7bit> generating key...
4133 2011-07-15 23:36:59 <prof7bit> signing message...
4134 2011-07-15 23:37:00 <prof7bit> verifying message...
4135 2011-07-15 23:37:00 <prof7bit> 1
4136 2011-07-15 23:37:21 <prof7bit> seems it does at least not crash.
4137 2011-07-15 23:37:26 <prof7bit> :-)
4138 2011-07-15 23:37:51 <sipa> jgarzik: yeah
4139 2011-07-15 23:38:16 <sipa> jgarzik: concerning rejectedtx... it needs a rewrite indeed, but it also needs some gui/rpc work
4140 2011-07-15 23:39:16 jjjx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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4142 2011-07-15 23:40:19 Beccara has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
4143 2011-07-15 23:40:35 <prof7bit> http://pastebin.com/BaksJ4DY
4144 2011-07-15 23:41:16 <prof7bit> http://pastebin.com/1Asnv88u  <-- now i can clean up 90% of this, a lot of unneeded functions.
4145 2011-07-15 23:41:25 <prof7bit> and definitions
4146 2011-07-15 23:41:53 b4epoche has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4147 2011-07-15 23:42:05 Beccara has joined
4148 2011-07-15 23:42:21 <IO-> jgarzik: you're famous: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/heroin-a-click-away-one-website-sells-illegal-drugs-to-be-shipped-to-your-home
4149 2011-07-15 23:43:07 <jgarzik> IO-: they did a poor job of quoting... as usual
4150 2011-07-15 23:44:05 <prof7bit> ok, another piece of the puzzle is solved, some more questions are answered, this should be enough for today.
4151 2011-07-15 23:44:11 <prof7bit> good night.
4152 2011-07-15 23:44:16 <prof7bit> and tnx for help
4153 2011-07-15 23:44:48 <IO-> they made it sound like anyone can get the name and address of anyone that does a BTC trade
4154 2011-07-15 23:44:54 <IO-> bad reporter
4155 2011-07-15 23:45:15 <dsockwell> shoudl have asked the weatherman to explain
4156 2011-07-15 23:45:16 Blojack has quit (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
4157 2011-07-15 23:45:38 spirals has joined
4158 2011-07-15 23:45:46 <dsockwell> i've noticed the weatherman is usually the most educated person in the newsroom
4159 2011-07-15 23:45:47 <IO-> bad reporter! no donut! bad! baaaaaad
4160 2011-07-15 23:47:20 Blojack has joined
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4164 2011-07-15 23:53:28 * prof7bit is away: abwesend
4165 2011-07-15 23:53:57 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, the incompetency of major media is mind boggling
4166 2011-07-15 23:54:11 kermit has joined
4167 2011-07-15 23:54:15 <phantomcircuit> so far every single interviewer has slightly misquoted me
4168 2011-07-15 23:54:15 glitch-mod has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
4169 2011-07-15 23:54:18 LobsterMan has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
4170 2011-07-15 23:54:23 <phantomcircuit> it's fucking incredible
4171 2011-07-15 23:54:41 <JFK911> welcome to journalism
4172 2011-07-15 23:55:22 <phantomcircuit> i already had a sneaking suspicion judging from the stupidity of the girls who are "communications" majors
4173 2011-07-15 23:55:31 <phantomcircuit> but really the level of just plain incompetence is absurd
4174 2011-07-15 23:55:41 <JFK911> wait til you get googled before your next job interview
4175 2011-07-15 23:55:45 <JFK911> heroin website headlines
4176 2011-07-15 23:56:09 gavinandresen has joined
4177 2011-07-15 23:56:21 <gmaxwell> Lots of greed and lazyness too, folks who are competent enough but get paid just as well for paraphrasing crap from press releases without any criticial thought.
4178 2011-07-15 23:56:43 jjjx has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
4179 2011-07-15 23:56:46 TheZimm has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
4180 2011-07-15 23:56:48 jjjx has joined
4181 2011-07-15 23:56:54 <sipa> ohai gavinandresen
4182 2011-07-15 23:57:01 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: yep
4183 2011-07-15 23:57:09 <gmaxwell> There are some competent reporters out there— for example, I have ones send me articles for checking. But they are rare.
4184 2011-07-15 23:57:46 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
4185 2011-07-15 23:58:03 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: anywhere close to "major media" / MSM, and they go into an interview with the story already written in their head.  they ask questions until they get the choice quote they were already looking for (even if your words must be taken out of context to do so)
4186 2011-07-15 23:58:18 <gavinandresen> NPR planet money reporters were EXTREMELY thorough and careful....
4187 2011-07-15 23:58:24 erus` has joined
4188 2011-07-15 23:58:25 <jgarzik> I had press training, thanks to day job
4189 2011-07-15 23:58:26 <phantomcircuit> im not even talking out of context
4190 2011-07-15 23:58:31 <jgarzik> and _still_ I had no idea this was so bad
4191 2011-07-15 23:58:37 <phantomcircuit> i mean pcworld printed a direct quote... which i never said
4192 2011-07-15 23:58:37 <jgarzik> yeah some even blatantly misquoted me
4193 2011-07-15 23:59:02 <phantomcircuit> and stupidly for them i was in the UK at the time
4194 2011-07-15 23:59:13 <phantomcircuit> so im pretty sure the interview fell under UK law
4195 2011-07-15 23:59:22 <jgarzik> Michael Crichton's _Airframe_ was useful press interview prep
4196 2011-07-15 23:59:39 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit: careful they might have hacked your phone ;-)