1 2011-08-03 00:00:03 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
   2 2011-08-03 00:00:03 <gribble> 2004621.59159859
   3 2011-08-03 00:00:39 <lfm> ;;bc,spotestimate
   4 2011-08-03 00:00:43 <gribble> 2039050.94253
   5 2011-08-03 00:01:45 <lfm> MaggyO: doesnt seem its gone up that much, how did you estimate it?
   6 2011-08-03 00:02:38 grbgout has joined
   7 2011-08-03 00:03:32 <MaggyO> bitcoinwatch
   8 2011-08-03 00:03:44 <MaggyO> went from 12000GH to 16500GH from 31july to 2 aug
   9 2011-08-03 00:04:28 <lfm> ya, how did you measure that?
  10 2011-08-03 00:05:47 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
  11 2011-08-03 00:05:53 <gribble> The read operation timed out
  12 2011-08-03 00:05:57 <edcba> grmbl
  13 2011-08-03 00:06:22 <lfm> and thats only 73 %
  14 2011-08-03 00:06:31 Lachesis has joined
  15 2011-08-03 00:08:24 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  16 2011-08-03 00:09:06 theorb has joined
  17 2011-08-03 00:09:30 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  18 2011-08-03 00:09:35 <lfm> or 138% perhaps
  19 2011-08-03 00:09:40 theorb is now known as theorbtwo
  20 2011-08-03 00:10:01 TuxBlackEdo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  21 2011-08-03 00:10:32 kish`_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  22 2011-08-03 00:10:49 kish` has joined
  23 2011-08-03 00:12:34 eoss has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  24 2011-08-03 00:14:36 AStove has quit ()
  25 2011-08-03 00:21:23 kluge has joined
  26 2011-08-03 00:26:10 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  27 2011-08-03 00:27:55 Evious has joined
  28 2011-08-03 00:29:15 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  29 2011-08-03 00:31:04 eian has joined
  30 2011-08-03 00:35:20 bitcoinbulletin has joined
  31 2011-08-03 00:37:58 <nexes> Does anyone know of a safe way to edit the wallet of a running bitcoind?
  32 2011-08-03 00:38:30 <nexes> I need to be able to swap keys in and out very quickly.
  33 2011-08-03 00:38:32 <lfm> ya, use bitcoind commands
  34 2011-08-03 00:39:13 <lfm> dunno how you swap keys in and out tho. there might be a patch for that.
  35 2011-08-03 00:39:27 <doublec> nexes: there's a patch for importing/exporting keys
  36 2011-08-03 00:39:30 <doublec> nexes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/220
  37 2011-08-03 00:39:42 <nexes> doublec: Awesome, thanks. :D
  38 2011-08-03 00:40:05 <nexes> I really should look through the pull requests. >_>
  39 2011-08-03 00:40:24 <imsaguy> its supposed to be in the official soon
  40 2011-08-03 00:40:26 <imsaguy> .4 I think
  41 2011-08-03 00:40:45 T_X has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  42 2011-08-03 00:41:09 sacarlson has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  43 2011-08-03 00:41:24 <lfm> sounds dangerous. seems like it would be easy to abuse/misuse that
  44 2011-08-03 00:41:33 <nexes> How so?
  45 2011-08-03 00:41:51 <lfm> messup your wallet, lose keys etc etc
  46 2011-08-03 00:42:22 <nexes> I don't think they'll add a poorly implemented feature to the mainline client.
  47 2011-08-03 00:42:36 <lfm> dream on
  48 2011-08-03 00:42:56 <nexes> Well, regardless, for my purposes if it breaks the wallet a rollback is trivial anyway.
  49 2011-08-03 00:43:04 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
  50 2011-08-03 00:43:12 <b4epoche_> well, export != delete
  51 2011-08-03 00:43:48 <lfm> ok ya, no delete would be a little safer
  52 2011-08-03 00:43:49 again has joined
  53 2011-08-03 00:44:41 <jrmithdobbs> really needs a delete option
  54 2011-08-03 00:44:50 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
  55 2011-08-03 00:45:23 <b4epoche_> seems like the foundation is also in place for multiple wallet.dat files but I'm not sure when that will be used
  56 2011-08-03 00:45:48 again is now known as tower
  57 2011-08-03 00:45:52 <lfm> people use multiple wallet.dat files now
  58 2011-08-03 00:46:21 <b4epoche_> in a hackish way
  59 2011-08-03 00:46:27 <lfm> not something Id recomend but they do it
  60 2011-08-03 00:46:32 normanrichards has joined
  61 2011-08-03 00:47:02 <lfm> if file copy and rename is "hacking" then I spoze you could call it that
  62 2011-08-03 00:47:22 AAA_awright has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  63 2011-08-03 00:47:32 <b4epoche_> okay, let's call it kludgish
  64 2011-08-03 00:47:33 storrgie has joined
  65 2011-08-03 00:47:42 Lachesis has joined
  66 2011-08-03 00:50:29 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  67 2011-08-03 00:54:42 sacarlson has joined
  68 2011-08-03 00:58:25 T_X has joined
  69 2011-08-03 00:58:25 T_X has quit (Changing host)
  70 2011-08-03 00:58:25 T_X has joined
  71 2011-08-03 01:00:10 Cusipzzz has joined
  72 2011-08-03 01:01:27 AAA_awright has joined
  73 2011-08-03 01:02:04 IO- is now known as IO_afk
  74 2011-08-03 01:02:41 Jefff has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  75 2011-08-03 01:02:50 Jefff has joined
  76 2011-08-03 01:03:26 pixglen has quit (Quit: pixglen)
  77 2011-08-03 01:05:25 osmosis has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  78 2011-08-03 01:05:50 AAA_awright has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  79 2011-08-03 01:09:08 AAA_awright has joined
  80 2011-08-03 01:11:38 puhc has joined
  81 2011-08-03 01:12:27 Tycale has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
  82 2011-08-03 01:13:07 minimoose has joined
  83 2011-08-03 01:13:27 zeropointo has joined
  84 2011-08-03 01:14:15 mologie has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  85 2011-08-03 01:15:00 insanehitz has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  86 2011-08-03 01:15:06 mologie has joined
  87 2011-08-03 01:16:20 Tycale has joined
  88 2011-08-03 01:16:41 insanehitz has joined
  89 2011-08-03 01:17:42 osmosis has joined
  90 2011-08-03 01:19:34 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  91 2011-08-03 01:20:23 storrgie has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  92 2011-08-03 01:20:59 copumpkin has joined
  93 2011-08-03 01:21:27 tcatm has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  94 2011-08-03 01:22:31 tcatm has joined
  95 2011-08-03 01:24:14 eastender2 has joined
  96 2011-08-03 01:24:30 eastender has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  97 2011-08-03 01:24:58 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
  98 2011-08-03 01:25:31 tower has joined
  99 2011-08-03 01:28:59 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 100 2011-08-03 01:29:34 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 101 2011-08-03 01:29:45 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 102 2011-08-03 01:30:29 dbitcoin has joined
 103 2011-08-03 01:35:11 bitcoinbulletin has joined
 104 2011-08-03 01:35:36 pixglen has joined
 105 2011-08-03 01:35:47 m03sizlak has joined
 106 2011-08-03 01:36:21 lolwat` has joined
 107 2011-08-03 01:36:22 <m03sizlak> hey, ive launched a HTML5 bitcoin blackjack site, check it out  http://bitjack21.com
 108 2011-08-03 01:37:11 <MaggyO> nice work
 109 2011-08-03 01:37:23 <m03sizlak> why thank you
 110 2011-08-03 01:37:36 <MaggyO> wheres the source
 111 2011-08-03 01:38:30 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 112 2011-08-03 01:39:00 <m03sizlak> MaggyO, its 100% honest i assure you
 113 2011-08-03 01:39:08 <m03sizlak> im reluctant to post my source, yet
 114 2011-08-03 01:39:31 <MaggyO> why i want to steal it and use it on my site
 115 2011-08-03 01:39:37 <MaggyO> dont be greedy mang
 116 2011-08-03 01:39:58 <lfm> but its ok if you are MaggyO ?
 117 2011-08-03 01:40:13 <MaggyO> i didnt expect that question
 118 2011-08-03 01:40:38 <lfm> no body expects the spanish inquisition.
 119 2011-08-03 01:41:06 <MaggyO> who are you a bitcoin irs
 120 2011-08-03 01:41:11 <MaggyO> come to go over my records
 121 2011-08-03 01:41:26 <MaggyO> its all clean, i dont have 17000btc from bitomat
 122 2011-08-03 01:41:29 <lfm> our main weapons are surprize and fear
 123 2011-08-03 01:41:40 <MaggyO> my share was only 2000btc
 124 2011-08-03 01:42:05 <lfm> whats bitomat?
 125 2011-08-03 01:42:07 moa7 has left ()
 126 2011-08-03 01:42:09 <MaggyO> 1. pay amazon technician to be inept   2. ??? 3. profit
 127 2011-08-03 01:43:13 Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 128 2011-08-03 01:44:45 Cory has joined
 129 2011-08-03 01:44:46 Cory has quit (Excess Flood)
 130 2011-08-03 01:45:14 Guest1839 has joined
 131 2011-08-03 01:45:15 Guest1839 has quit (Excess Flood)
 132 2011-08-03 01:45:47 Guest1839 has joined
 133 2011-08-03 01:45:48 Guest1839 has quit (Excess Flood)
 134 2011-08-03 01:47:11 <MaggyO> whats it coded in m03sizlak
 135 2011-08-03 01:47:15 <MaggyO> jscript?
 136 2011-08-03 01:47:38 <m03sizlak> jscript, jquery is the game client
 137 2011-08-03 01:47:42 <m03sizlak> server is php mysql
 138 2011-08-03 01:48:18 <m03sizlak> plays in all major browsers including android and ipad
 139 2011-08-03 01:48:38 <m03sizlak> plays *beautifully* in all major browsers i should say
 140 2011-08-03 01:49:28 <m03sizlak> come play!
 141 2011-08-03 01:49:44 <m03sizlak> min bet: 0.01 BTC, max bet [currently]: 0.25 BTC
 142 2011-08-03 01:50:06 <cjdelisle> cool, you ought to add betting on the stock market
 143 2011-08-03 01:50:24 <m03sizlak> rouletter is next
 144 2011-08-03 01:50:30 <m03sizlak> *roulette
 145 2011-08-03 01:51:12 <cjdelisle> ya wanna make a lot of people really really mad... long term pools on how long celebrities and politicians will live.
 146 2011-08-03 01:51:32 <m03sizlak> ppl wouldnt trust the site to stay alive that long
 147 2011-08-03 01:51:42 <cjdelisle> betting is morally reprehensable. cheating is downright evil
 148 2011-08-03 01:51:54 <m03sizlak> so far, people have deposited money, either lost it, or doubled,tripled it & then withdrew it all
 149 2011-08-03 01:52:14 <m03sizlak> and i dont cheat, i assure you mu site is 100% legit
 150 2011-08-03 01:52:22 <cjdelisle> games vs people who are good at math
 151 2011-08-03 01:52:23 <MaggyO> words are words
 152 2011-08-03 01:52:24 <m03sizlak> i will be making hand histories and stats available
 153 2011-08-03 01:52:41 <m03sizlak> you check the dealer bust %, currently its about 30%
 154 2011-08-03 01:52:46 <m03sizlak> right where it should be
 155 2011-08-03 01:52:57 <MaggyO> doesnt your server control that number
 156 2011-08-03 01:53:02 <m03sizlak> no
 157 2011-08-03 01:53:05 <m03sizlak> random numbers do
 158 2011-08-03 01:53:16 <m03sizlak> theres 8 decks, shuffled before every hand
 159 2011-08-03 01:53:18 <MaggyO> where is the number taken from to be displayed
 160 2011-08-03 01:53:27 <m03sizlak> the database of all games played
 161 2011-08-03 01:53:29 <MaggyO> not your server?
 162 2011-08-03 01:53:34 <m03sizlak> yes
 163 2011-08-03 01:53:36 <cjdelisle> if you're willing to do 10 minute wait times, you can bet on the last bytes of the hash of the next block, that's pretty honest
 164 2011-08-03 01:53:37 <Namegduf> MaggyO: It's not a number taken from a place to be displayed
 165 2011-08-03 01:53:43 <MaggyO> lawl
 166 2011-08-03 01:53:43 vragnaroda has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 167 2011-08-03 01:53:45 <m03sizlak> but math says the number should be about 28.5%
 168 2011-08-03 01:53:46 <Namegduf> It's a percentage of events
 169 2011-08-03 01:54:01 <Namegduf> Of events which meet X criteria
 170 2011-08-03 01:54:09 <MaggyO> you worked on this with him?
 171 2011-08-03 01:54:11 <Namegduf> As those events are available to others, it can hypothetically be confirmed
 172 2011-08-03 01:54:12 <Namegduf> No
 173 2011-08-03 01:54:25 <Namegduf> I've no remote connection to this, I just understand probability.
 174 2011-08-03 01:54:33 <Namegduf> Let's say there's a betting site which lets you bet on the roll of a die.
 175 2011-08-03 01:54:35 <m03sizlak> me too, im a degenerate gambler
 176 2011-08-03 01:54:46 <m03sizlak> put 2K on black last week
 177 2011-08-03 01:54:47 <m03sizlak> lost
 178 2011-08-03 01:54:48 <Namegduf> If it's 6, you get five times your money back.
 179 2011-08-03 01:54:50 <MaggyO> Namegduf: then how do you know he isnt just displaying some number
 180 2011-08-03 01:54:57 <Namegduf> MaggyO: Because it's not being displayed.
 181 2011-08-03 01:55:09 <Namegduf> It's being calculated and the basis for the calculation is public information
 182 2011-08-03 01:55:11 <m03sizlak> correct, but it will be soon
 183 2011-08-03 01:55:14 <MaggyO>  <m03sizlak> you check the dealer bust %, currently its about 30%
 184 2011-08-03 01:55:18 <Namegduf> So anyone can just repeat the calculation
 185 2011-08-03 01:55:19 <m03sizlak> ill show all YOUR hand histories
 186 2011-08-03 01:55:23 <MaggyO> how can i check something if its not displayed
 187 2011-08-03 01:55:28 <m03sizlak> and the dealer bust % vs YOU
 188 2011-08-03 01:55:30 <Namegduf> By calculating it yourself
 189 2011-08-03 01:55:34 <MaggyO> lawl
 190 2011-08-03 01:55:34 <m03sizlak> or that^^
 191 2011-08-03 01:55:56 <m03sizlak> eventually ill post my code
 192 2011-08-03 01:56:04 <m03sizlak> but not until my site is more established
 193 2011-08-03 01:56:05 <MaggyO> that wont matter
 194 2011-08-03 01:56:16 <MaggyO> source doesnt mean much, you can change it
 195 2011-08-03 01:56:21 <m03sizlak> true
 196 2011-08-03 01:56:38 <cjdelisle> I have seen an nist random number generator implemented entirely in sql
 197 2011-08-03 01:56:53 <m03sizlak> mysql> select sum(netGain) from games where player != 'moeSizlak';
 198 2011-08-03 01:56:53 <m03sizlak> +--------------+
 199 2011-08-03 01:56:53 <m03sizlak> | sum(netGain) |
 200 2011-08-03 01:56:53 <m03sizlak> +--------------+
 201 2011-08-03 01:56:53 <m03sizlak> |          114 |
 202 2011-08-03 01:56:54 <m03sizlak> +--------------+
 203 2011-08-03 01:57:09 <m03sizlak> that shows that my site thus far (over 2 days) has LOST 1.14 BTC to players
 204 2011-08-03 01:57:11 <m03sizlak> :P
 205 2011-08-03 01:57:23 IO_afk is now known as IO-
 206 2011-08-03 01:57:26 <Namegduf> MaggyO: Let's say there's a site which gives you 5 times your money back on rolling a 6 on a 1d6.
 207 2011-08-03 01:57:38 <MaggyO> Namegduf: i dont think you understand my points tbh
 208 2011-08-03 01:57:48 <Namegduf> I don't think you understand statistics.
 209 2011-08-03 01:57:48 * m03sizlak loves probability
 210 2011-08-03 01:57:53 Guest1839 has joined
 211 2011-08-03 01:57:54 Guest1839 has quit (Excess Flood)
 212 2011-08-03 01:57:56 <Namegduf> Statistically, the dice should give money back 1/6th of the time.
 213 2011-08-03 01:58:04 <MaggyO> and
 214 2011-08-03 01:58:05 <m03sizlak> say you have 3 missiles, one hits its target 70% of the time, the other 80%, the other 90%
 215 2011-08-03 01:58:10 <Namegduf> So it should have roughly a 16.66% chance of doing so.
 216 2011-08-03 01:58:12 <m03sizlak> you fire all 3 at the same target
 217 2011-08-03 01:58:13 <MaggyO> you need a high enough sample to determine the real rate
 218 2011-08-03 01:58:17 <Namegduf> Yes, and?
 219 2011-08-03 01:58:20 <m03sizlak> what is the probability target is hit?
 220 2011-08-03 01:58:22 Pasha has joined
 221 2011-08-03 01:58:23 Pasha has quit (Excess Flood)
 222 2011-08-03 01:58:31 <MaggyO> how muhc money you going to blow testing if some site is legit?
 223 2011-08-03 01:58:49 <MaggyO> how do you know its legit on all bets? maybe its just the small ones
 224 2011-08-03 01:58:51 Pasha has joined
 225 2011-08-03 01:58:51 Pasha has quit (Excess Flood)
 226 2011-08-03 01:58:52 <m03sizlak> bah, im off to bed, come gamble!
 227 2011-08-03 01:58:53 <Namegduf> The point is that the percentage is not "displayed", it cannot be tampered with by the server, all of that crap is nonsense
 228 2011-08-03 01:59:05 <cjdelisle> I tend to assume that it is legit, still I don't gamble so it does me little good.
 229 2011-08-03 01:59:07 <MaggyO> maybe if(btc_bet > 0.25) { halve_odds }
 230 2011-08-03 01:59:17 <Namegduf> It can be independently calculated.
 231 2011-08-03 01:59:19 Pasha has joined
 232 2011-08-03 01:59:20 Pasha has quit (Excess Flood)
 233 2011-08-03 01:59:35 <Namegduf> All reasonable points, but none of them substantiate your original whining about "where is displaying" it.
 234 2011-08-03 01:59:46 <MaggyO> he said check it out
 235 2011-08-03 02:00:04 <MaggyO> that assumes you can see the 30% he is claiming somewhere without having to do 100 bets to determine it
 236 2011-08-03 02:00:04 <Namegduf> Just 'cause you understand it now doesn't mean you don't get to be wrong when you didn't.
 237 2011-08-03 02:00:07 <Namegduf> Anyways, I should go.
 238 2011-08-03 02:00:11 <MaggyO> haha
 239 2011-08-03 02:00:14 <m03sizlak> smart blackjack players playing against a continuous shuffling machine do not change their bet
 240 2011-08-03 02:00:15 <lfm> 99.4%
 241 2011-08-03 02:00:20 <m03sizlak> lfm, correct
 242 2011-08-03 02:00:29 <Namegduf> MaggyO: Or people who played could share their results, you know
 243 2011-08-03 02:00:29 Pasha has joined
 244 2011-08-03 02:00:30 Pasha has quit (Excess Flood)
 245 2011-08-03 02:00:45 <MaggyO> Namegduf: right, and how do you know they arent paid by him
 246 2011-08-03 02:00:54 <m03sizlak> and MaggyO , i will be posting the stats soon
 247 2011-08-03 02:00:58 <cjdelisle> hehe
 248 2011-08-03 02:01:00 <Namegduf> Still fails to connect to your original complaint
 249 2011-08-03 02:01:01 <m03sizlak> the site is new, and my time is limited
 250 2011-08-03 02:01:18 <MaggyO> Namegduf: i think your reading comprehension is too bad to understand my point(s)
 251 2011-08-03 02:01:34 <Namegduf> I think repeating that over and over isn't going to win you any points.
 252 2011-08-03 02:01:43 marf_away has joined
 253 2011-08-03 02:02:04 <Namegduf> You said "doesn't your server control that number".
 254 2011-08-03 02:02:06 <lfm> understanding statistics doesnt really help you detect cheaters
 255 2011-08-03 02:02:12 <cjdelisle> "how do you know they arent paid by him" reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_Conspiracy which I just heard about the other day.
 256 2011-08-03 02:02:26 <MaggyO> Namegduf: yes under the assumption it was showing some 30% number like he implied
 257 2011-08-03 02:02:30 eastender has joined
 258 2011-08-03 02:02:48 <Namegduf> No, that's not what the word "control" means.
 259 2011-08-03 02:02:51 <MaggyO> only some fool would say "try my gambling system enough times and it will show you 30%"
 260 2011-08-03 02:02:52 <Namegduf> "control" does not mean "can fake"
 261 2011-08-03 02:02:55 <Namegduf> It means "gets to set"
 262 2011-08-03 02:03:01 <MaggyO> haha ok
 263 2011-08-03 02:03:20 <MaggyO> resume your high school studies mang
 264 2011-08-03 02:03:21 Cory has joined
 265 2011-08-03 02:03:22 Cory has quit (Excess Flood)
 266 2011-08-03 02:03:22 eastender2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 267 2011-08-03 02:03:56 <lfm> have you heard of the non-transitive dice?
 268 2011-08-03 02:05:13 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 269 2011-08-03 02:05:56 <Evious> Slot machines don't match their outcomes to the number of symbols they display. They're popular.
 270 2011-08-03 02:06:02 <Evious> Surely gambling sites don't need to either?
 271 2011-08-03 02:06:20 Xunie has quit (Quit: Can God microwave a taco so hot that not even *HE* can eat it without burns?)
 272 2011-08-03 02:06:51 <MaggyO> every gambling site operator says the same thing
 273 2011-08-03 02:07:07 <MaggyO> are you ever going to meet someone promoting the fact the odds are even more rigged in his favour?
 274 2011-08-03 02:08:04 <lfm> I think we can take it as a rule that a cheating site would say the same things as an honest one.
 275 2011-08-03 02:08:32 <Cusipzzz> that's why betting on sports is the safest online gambling ..can't be rigged by code... referees, yes, but not code :)
 276 2011-08-03 02:09:01 <MaggyO> yah cept not enough people do it so its hard to do that Cusipzzz
 277 2011-08-03 02:09:05 <lfm> well they can rig the odds
 278 2011-08-03 02:09:06 <cjdelisle> bet on the last byte of the hash of the next block
 279 2011-08-03 02:09:23 <cjdelisle> it's not so much fun but rigging it is going to be hell
 280 2011-08-03 02:09:55 <MaggyO> unless a site has a large bankroll they are essentially using other peoples bets to give you winnings
 281 2011-08-03 02:10:05 <Cusipzzz> betting sports, the odds are displayed upfront. if you don'tlike it, move to the next game. pretty easy
 282 2011-08-03 02:10:12 <MaggyO> and in a direct fashion, unlike most bookies
 283 2011-08-03 02:11:05 <Namegduf> Huh?
 284 2011-08-03 02:11:07 <Namegduf> The house always wins
 285 2011-08-03 02:11:11 <Namegduf> The house has always always won
 286 2011-08-03 02:11:17 <Namegduf> This isn't news
 287 2011-08-03 02:11:45 <Namegduf> Not scammy, just gambling
 288 2011-08-03 02:12:08 <cjdelisle> also it would make sense to put bets into escrow transactions in the chain (at least on the longer term) since then if the house goes bust then the players all have what they started with.
 289 2011-08-03 02:12:11 <MaggyO> youre confusing the points again Namegduf
 290 2011-08-03 02:12:23 <Namegduf> No, I'm replying to what you're writing.
 291 2011-08-03 02:12:32 <MaggyO> just because gambling is known that the "House wins" doesnt mean the odds people think they are getting are rigged
 292 2011-08-03 02:12:49 <Namegduf> They're not rigged. The house just wins more often than not.
 293 2011-08-03 02:12:53 <MaggyO> haha
 294 2011-08-03 02:12:58 <Namegduf> And if they don't think they're getting that they're outright morons.
 295 2011-08-03 02:13:07 <Namegduf> Everywhere is that way, always has been.
 296 2011-08-03 02:13:09 <MaggyO> theyre not rigged? lawl
 297 2011-08-03 02:13:13 <lfm> and sometimes the house rigs the odds to win more often than that
 298 2011-08-03 02:13:17 <Namegduf> And most of them advertise their odds.
 299 2011-08-03 02:13:19 <MaggyO> you speak on behalf of every btc gambling operation now, nice
 300 2011-08-03 02:13:23 <Namegduf> (And the house wins more)
 301 2011-08-03 02:13:32 <MaggyO> Namegduf the BTC gambling regulator
 302 2011-08-03 02:13:35 <Namegduf> No, I don't. Do not put words in my mouth.
 303 2011-08-03 02:13:45 <Namegduf> I'm talking about gambling in general, giving you the 10 year old explanation.
 304 2011-08-03 02:13:51 <Namegduf> Since you seem to need it.
 305 2011-08-03 02:13:55 <MaggyO> <Namegduf> They're not rigged.
 306 2011-08-03 02:13:55 <cjdelisle> heh
 307 2011-08-03 02:14:07 <MaggyO> implies gambling will never be rigged
 308 2011-08-03 02:14:17 <Namegduf> No, it doesn't.
 309 2011-08-03 02:14:23 <Cusipzzz> btcsportsbet.com is not rigged, and cannot be rigged by the site...there are exceptions
 310 2011-08-03 02:14:24 <Namegduf> That is what is called a strawman argument.
 311 2011-08-03 02:14:31 <MaggyO> lawl, <Namegduf> They're not rigged.
 312 2011-08-03 02:14:35 <MaggyO> pretty much states it
 313 2011-08-03 02:14:38 <MaggyO> 3 words
 314 2011-08-03 02:14:57 <Namegduf> Well, aside the change in tense, and the "They're" referring to the previous line, not all bitcoin operations everywhere
 315 2011-08-03 02:15:19 <lfm> they're could refer to some specific subset of sites
 316 2011-08-03 02:15:22 <Namegduf> (The previous line containing "the odds", which are the offered rates of winning)
 317 2011-08-03 02:15:41 <MaggyO> yes to a non specific "house" that you dont know is rigged or not
 318 2011-08-03 02:15:43 <MaggyO> yet you claim it isnt
 319 2011-08-03 02:15:55 <Namegduf> The offered rates cannot be rigged by definition.
 320 2011-08-03 02:16:01 <MaggyO> everyone knows the "House always wins" its a given
 321 2011-08-03 02:16:06 <Namegduf> They are not the real percentage of times you win, thus the phrase "beating the odds".
 322 2011-08-03 02:16:17 <MaggyO> what we are discussing are operators who offer even lower odds behind the scenes than they should to win more often
 323 2011-08-03 02:16:21 <MaggyO> if you could read well, you would get this
 324 2011-08-03 02:16:29 <Namegduf> You can't "offer" behind the scenes.
 325 2011-08-03 02:16:33 <Namegduf> Consider the meaning of the word "offer".
 326 2011-08-03 02:16:45 <MaggyO> ok, who "set"
 327 2011-08-03 02:16:58 <Namegduf> Those are not "the odds".
 328 2011-08-03 02:17:27 <Namegduf> In such a case, there are two sets of odds, the publicised offered odds and the real ones.
 329 2011-08-03 02:17:32 <Namegduf> "the odds" refers to the former.
 330 2011-08-03 02:17:37 <MaggyO> haha
 331 2011-08-03 02:17:42 <MaggyO> in your mind they do
 332 2011-08-03 02:18:03 <m03sizlak> ffs, my site is legit
 333 2011-08-03 02:18:07 <Namegduf> Actually, you said "the odds people think they're getting"
 334 2011-08-03 02:18:09 eastender has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 335 2011-08-03 02:18:13 <m03sizlak> go gamble!
 336 2011-08-03 02:18:17 <Namegduf> By definition, those odds aren't rigged because they're the ones they think they're getting
 337 2011-08-03 02:18:25 <Namegduf> :P
 338 2011-08-03 02:18:27 <lfm> horse betting you dont always get the odds that you bet on. the payout is adjusted after the results are in
 339 2011-08-03 02:18:32 imsaguy has quit ()
 340 2011-08-03 02:18:35 <MaggyO> you like arguing on the internet eh Namegduf
 341 2011-08-03 02:19:13 <MaggyO> the classic fail to read correctly what is being said, argue about the failed reading comprehension, then wind it back to "either way im right"
 342 2011-08-03 02:19:35 <lfm> bah, no one can read everything
 343 2011-08-03 02:19:57 <Namegduf> If this happens to you a lot, maybe it's not so much a problem at the "reading" end.
 344 2011-08-03 02:19:58 <Namegduf> Just sayin'
 345 2011-08-03 02:20:28 tower has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 346 2011-08-03 02:20:29 <Namegduf> Also you insist on reading errors long before you have enough data to conclude that- and I have to quote back to you what you actually wrote
 347 2011-08-03 02:20:36 <Namegduf> So let's just say your credibility in such matters is kinda poor
 348 2011-08-03 02:21:01 <MaggyO> ok sir, either way you are right
 349 2011-08-03 02:23:12 <cjdelisle> Entering in to round 12, Namegduf brused but still ready for a fight and MaggyO a bit bloody and apparently hoping to win this match with his old faithful move.
 350 2011-08-03 02:23:18 <cjdelisle> *ding*
 351 2011-08-03 02:23:42 lolwat` has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 352 2011-08-03 02:24:48 osmosis has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 353 2011-08-03 02:25:31 <MaggyO> cjdelisle: my point to you is not that you are running a rigged site, but that you need a way impart trust to your users
 354 2011-08-03 02:25:41 <MaggyO> maybe your full name, drivers license and social security number on the site
 355 2011-08-03 02:25:47 <cjdelisle> don't hit the ref :(
 356 2011-08-03 02:25:48 tower has joined
 357 2011-08-03 02:25:55 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 358 2011-08-03 02:27:29 <cjdelisle> anyway, looks like you're our last word champion, your words will now be entered into the book if Truth and you get this wonderful e-trophy, how do you feel?
 359 2011-08-03 02:29:16 BGL has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 360 2011-08-03 02:29:56 zapnap has joined
 361 2011-08-03 02:30:18 enquirer_ has joined
 362 2011-08-03 02:30:54 enquirer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 363 2011-08-03 02:30:59 enquirer_ is now known as enquirer
 364 2011-08-03 02:31:01 zapnap has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 365 2011-08-03 02:31:08 zapnap has joined
 366 2011-08-03 02:31:27 nefario has joined
 367 2011-08-03 02:35:21 <[Tycho]> ;bc,stats
 368 2011-08-03 02:35:42 Backburn has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 369 2011-08-03 02:35:42 <[Tycho]> ;;bc,stats
 370 2011-08-03 02:35:45 <gribble> Current Blocks: 139369 | Current Difficulty: 1888786.7053531 | Next Difficulty At Block: 141119 | Next Difficulty In: 1750 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 14 hours, 3 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1987568.10649582
 371 2011-08-03 02:36:12 Backburn has joined
 372 2011-08-03 02:38:49 osmosis has joined
 373 2011-08-03 02:40:12 jgarzik has quit (Quit: moving houses)
 374 2011-08-03 02:41:01 blueadept has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 375 2011-08-03 02:41:01 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 376 2011-08-03 02:44:42 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 377 2011-08-03 02:45:12 bitcoinbulletin has joined
 378 2011-08-03 02:45:56 osmosis has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 379 2011-08-03 02:49:00 TheSeven has quit (Disconnected by services)
 380 2011-08-03 02:49:14 [7] has joined
 381 2011-08-03 02:54:07 Lachesis has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 382 2011-08-03 02:57:52 Go0dOkFgf has joined
 383 2011-08-03 02:58:36 Go0dOkFgf has quit (Client Quit)
 384 2011-08-03 02:59:04 Go0dOkFgf has joined
 385 2011-08-03 02:59:19 osmosis has joined
 386 2011-08-03 03:00:00 Go0dOk has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 387 2011-08-03 03:00:13 Go0dOkFgf has quit (Client Quit)
 388 2011-08-03 03:02:56 <lfm> ;;bc,spotestimate
 389 2011-08-03 03:02:57 <gribble> 2031627.81616
 390 2011-08-03 03:03:36 pogden has joined
 391 2011-08-03 03:08:45 MaggyO has quit ()
 392 2011-08-03 03:09:33 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 393 2011-08-03 03:12:05 jimon has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 394 2011-08-03 03:15:09 eastender has joined
 395 2011-08-03 03:15:25 asher^ has joined
 396 2011-08-03 03:16:00 BGL has joined
 397 2011-08-03 03:17:34 jimon has joined
 398 2011-08-03 03:25:57 karnac has joined
 399 2011-08-03 03:26:22 magn3ts has joined
 400 2011-08-03 03:39:05 <asher^> anyone know if cdhowie hangs around here?
 401 2011-08-03 03:43:23 HaltingState has joined
 402 2011-08-03 03:44:05 <[Tycho]> Yes.
 403 2011-08-03 03:45:08 <asher^> what time of day is he typically on?
 404 2011-08-03 03:45:31 <[Tycho]> "SerajewelKS"
 405 2011-08-03 03:45:46 <[Tycho]> If you are talking about the proxy author.
 406 2011-08-03 03:45:58 <asher^> thanks
 407 2011-08-03 03:46:55 joepie92 has joined
 408 2011-08-03 03:47:28 wolfspraul has joined
 409 2011-08-03 03:47:40 imsaguy has joined
 410 2011-08-03 03:48:24 joepie91 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 411 2011-08-03 03:49:46 HaltingState has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 412 2011-08-03 03:51:10 normanrichards has joined
 413 2011-08-03 03:51:35 joepie92 is now known as joepie91
 414 2011-08-03 03:51:59 moa7 has joined
 415 2011-08-03 03:53:00 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 416 2011-08-03 03:55:19 bitcoinbulletin has joined
 417 2011-08-03 03:56:42 <m03sizlak> hey, ive launched a HTML5 bitcoin blackjack site, check it out  http://bitjack21.com
 418 2011-08-03 03:57:15 underscor has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 419 2011-08-03 03:57:25 <asher^> has anyone here set up cdhowie's proxy software btw?
 420 2011-08-03 03:57:38 HaltingState has joined
 421 2011-08-03 03:59:25 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 422 2011-08-03 04:02:09 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 423 2011-08-03 04:05:11 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
 424 2011-08-03 04:05:21 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 425 2011-08-03 04:05:56 Cusipzzz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 426 2011-08-03 04:09:13 <asher^> i tried using it yesterday but my server quickly became overloaded
 427 2011-08-03 04:09:58 osmosis has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 428 2011-08-03 04:10:06 <Blitzboom> devs, how is the 0.4 progress?
 429 2011-08-03 04:13:07 gasteve has joined
 430 2011-08-03 04:13:46 osmosis has joined
 431 2011-08-03 04:15:51 clarkbox has quit (Quit: bya!)
 432 2011-08-03 04:19:37 enquirer has joined
 433 2011-08-03 04:21:16 Qatz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 434 2011-08-03 04:22:22 clarkbox has joined
 435 2011-08-03 04:22:35 gasteve has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 436 2011-08-03 04:29:39 hachque has joined
 437 2011-08-03 04:31:19 ssxls has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 438 2011-08-03 04:32:02 ssxls has joined
 439 2011-08-03 04:43:25 minimoose has quit (Quit: minimoose)
 440 2011-08-03 04:45:03 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 441 2011-08-03 04:47:20 moa7 has left ()
 442 2011-08-03 04:47:35 puhc has left ("Leaving")
 443 2011-08-03 04:49:54 pumpkin has joined
 444 2011-08-03 04:51:15 gasteve has joined
 445 2011-08-03 04:52:41 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin_
 446 2011-08-03 04:52:50 gasteve has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 447 2011-08-03 04:53:22 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 448 2011-08-03 04:55:53 Rabbit67890 has joined
 449 2011-08-03 04:58:07 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 450 2011-08-03 05:00:45 copumpkin_ is now known as copumpkin
 451 2011-08-03 05:04:11 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 452 2011-08-03 05:05:32 Rabbit67890 has joined
 453 2011-08-03 05:06:12 huk has joined
 454 2011-08-03 05:07:58 <Rabbit67890> it doesn't matter; i didn't trade with gribble and i don't trust gribble
 455 2011-08-03 05:09:14 RazielZ has joined
 456 2011-08-03 05:12:55 pogden has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 457 2011-08-03 05:14:38 wardearia has joined
 458 2011-08-03 05:16:42 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 459 2011-08-03 05:18:10 karnac has joined
 460 2011-08-03 05:19:01 Rabbit67890 has joined
 461 2011-08-03 05:19:32 eian has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 462 2011-08-03 05:25:16 Darnoth has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 463 2011-08-03 05:28:55 mmoya has joined
 464 2011-08-03 05:35:16 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 465 2011-08-03 05:38:43 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
 466 2011-08-03 05:42:11 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 467 2011-08-03 05:49:22 enquirer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 468 2011-08-03 05:49:32 Darnoth has joined
 469 2011-08-03 05:49:59 Pinion has joined
 470 2011-08-03 05:50:41 hugolp has joined
 471 2011-08-03 05:56:42 zeropointo has quit (Quit: leaving)
 472 2011-08-03 05:58:18 kish`_ has joined
 473 2011-08-03 06:01:37 kish` has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 474 2011-08-03 06:03:12 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 475 2011-08-03 06:03:33 MrTiggr has joined
 476 2011-08-03 06:04:01 zapnap has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 477 2011-08-03 06:04:12 ThomasV has joined
 478 2011-08-03 06:12:35 Rabbit67890 has joined
 479 2011-08-03 06:18:04 gjs278 has joined
 480 2011-08-03 06:20:36 Akinava is now known as away!~lis@pff.eltel.net|Akinava
 481 2011-08-03 06:21:51 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 482 2011-08-03 06:24:11 Pinion has quit (Quit: Has quit)
 483 2011-08-03 06:24:56 Zagitta has joined
 484 2011-08-03 06:29:35 normanrichards has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 485 2011-08-03 06:29:37 toffoo has joined
 486 2011-08-03 06:34:30 TCA has joined
 487 2011-08-03 06:37:35 Akinava has quit (Quit: Akinava)
 488 2011-08-03 06:37:46 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 489 2011-08-03 06:38:17 hachque has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 490 2011-08-03 06:41:51 hwolf has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 491 2011-08-03 06:43:36 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 492 2011-08-03 06:46:23 Rabbit67890 has joined
 493 2011-08-03 06:46:32 Akinava has joined
 494 2011-08-03 06:46:32 Zagitta has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 495 2011-08-03 06:46:46 Rabbit67890 has quit (Client Quit)
 496 2011-08-03 06:49:34 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 497 2011-08-03 06:52:35 Rabbit67890 has joined
 498 2011-08-03 07:00:50 redhatzero has joined
 499 2011-08-03 07:02:43 ybit has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 500 2011-08-03 07:06:41 Akinava has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 501 2011-08-03 07:07:14 Rabbit67890_ has joined
 502 2011-08-03 07:08:05 eastender has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 503 2011-08-03 07:10:43 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 504 2011-08-03 07:10:43 Rabbit67890_ is now known as Rabbit67890
 505 2011-08-03 07:12:29 Akinava has joined
 506 2011-08-03 07:13:24 Xunie has joined
 507 2011-08-03 07:20:18 theorbtwo has joined
 508 2011-08-03 07:25:19 marf_away has joined
 509 2011-08-03 07:25:38 Zagitta has joined
 510 2011-08-03 07:26:59 Tiggr has joined
 511 2011-08-03 07:28:38 fakap has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 512 2011-08-03 07:28:55 MrTiggr has quit (Disconnected by services)
 513 2011-08-03 07:29:00 Tiggr is now known as MrTiggr
 514 2011-08-03 07:32:17 <lfm> what do addresses 1ARanTkswPiVM6tUEYvbskyqDsZpweiciu and mpwY5WqrkR9k8DN5x7tyhgCA5sAXqzvuSu have in common?
 515 2011-08-03 07:32:40 <asher^> same key?
 516 2011-08-03 07:32:44 <lfm> ya
 517 2011-08-03 07:33:06 magn3ts has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 518 2011-08-03 07:42:44 fakap has joined
 519 2011-08-03 07:42:52 MBS has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 520 2011-08-03 07:46:55 MBS has joined
 521 2011-08-03 07:47:01 erus` has joined
 522 2011-08-03 07:51:32 <erus`> http://imgur.com/gallery/APmQQ
 523 2011-08-03 07:55:19 vegardno is now known as vegard
 524 2011-08-03 07:58:55 fnord0 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 525 2011-08-03 08:02:35 <xelister> lfm / asher^ how do you know/how to check this?
 526 2011-08-03 08:02:41 abragin has joined
 527 2011-08-03 08:02:41 abragin has quit (Changing host)
 528 2011-08-03 08:02:41 abragin has joined
 529 2011-08-03 08:11:06 Clipse has joined
 530 2011-08-03 08:14:30 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 531 2011-08-03 08:19:56 [Tycho] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 532 2011-08-03 08:21:53 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 533 2011-08-03 08:22:19 copumpkin has joined
 534 2011-08-03 08:27:23 nefario has left ()
 535 2011-08-03 08:31:35 Rabbit67890 has joined
 536 2011-08-03 08:33:46 TD has joined
 537 2011-08-03 08:43:08 noot has joined
 538 2011-08-03 08:43:29 noot has left ()
 539 2011-08-03 08:47:18 datagutt has joined
 540 2011-08-03 08:48:14 <asher^> what is the max amount of time reasonable between a worker getting work and them submitting it?
 541 2011-08-03 08:53:14 <Eliel> how would you define reasonable in this context?
 542 2011-08-03 08:54:30 <asher^> ok, some context.. this is for a pool. i want to not store more data than necessary in memory (tracking work) but i don't want people to submit work to have it not be recognised either
 543 2011-08-03 08:56:32 <Eliel> well, basically, you need to decide what's the minimum hashing speed you want miners to have to have them in your pool
 544 2011-08-03 08:56:43 <asher^> right
 545 2011-08-03 08:56:52 <asher^> i was also thinking that there could be other factors
 546 2011-08-03 08:56:59 <asher^> like some miners get extra work in advance
 547 2011-08-03 08:57:51 <Eliel> that is true, but I tend to think that practise ought to be discouraged.
 548 2011-08-03 08:58:12 <asher^> i agree
 549 2011-08-03 08:58:38 fakap has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 550 2011-08-03 08:58:39 <asher^> but someone using the pool and seeing lots of rejected shares probably wont ask why
 551 2011-08-03 08:58:45 fakap- has joined
 552 2011-08-03 09:00:03 <Eliel> asher^: likely, but that's not really the question. The question is would you want them mining in the first place
 553 2011-08-03 09:00:16 <Eliel> on your pool
 554 2011-08-03 09:00:21 <asher^> true
 555 2011-08-03 09:00:37 <Eliel> if you do want them, make system work for them, if not...
 556 2011-08-03 09:00:42 <asher^> yeah
 557 2011-08-03 09:01:35 <Eliel> if your pool is a small one, you might want to begin by having the system work for everyone but then tighten the rules when you hit the limit on how many the system can handle.
 558 2011-08-03 09:01:55 Tiggr has joined
 559 2011-08-03 09:02:09 <asher^> another question... if i get work and start mining, find a solution, submit the share, will i keep iterating the nonce until i find another, or will i start on new work, or will the merkle root get updated or something so i need to start again anyway?
 560 2011-08-03 09:03:02 <Eliel> asher^: that depends on the miner software. For example, poclbm tends to find 4-5 shares per work for me. 7-8 on my faster card.
 561 2011-08-03 09:03:13 <asher^> or.. will the miner reset the timestamp and restart the nonce? (does the miner even change the timestamp?)
 562 2011-08-03 09:03:30 <Caesium> it can, with Roll-NTime?
 563 2011-08-03 09:03:35 MrTiggr has quit (Disconnected by services)
 564 2011-08-03 09:03:41 Tiggr is now known as MrTiggr
 565 2011-08-03 09:03:45 <Eliel> Caesium: yes, Roll-NTime is the feature that makes this possible
 566 2011-08-03 09:04:00 <asher^> i need to look into that more
 567 2011-08-03 09:04:37 <asher^> Eliel right, so i need to keep the work data so the miners have time to submit 4-8 shares (in your case)
 568 2011-08-03 09:04:56 <Eliel> luke (Eligius pool) has basically eliminated long poll delay based rejects by doing some tweaking through selectively enabling or disabling roll-ntime
 569 2011-08-03 09:05:12 <Eliel> and setting nonceranges
 570 2011-08-03 09:05:29 <asher^> interesting
 571 2011-08-03 09:06:21 <Eliel> some miners don't support rollntime at all though
 572 2011-08-03 09:07:03 <Caesium> isn't all that only relevant for a miner with very low MH?
 573 2011-08-03 09:07:21 <Caesium> .. miners you don't really want :)
 574 2011-08-03 09:07:32 <asher^> i dont have a problem with slow miners
 575 2011-08-03 09:07:45 <Caesium> you will when they do 20 getworks per share ;)
 576 2011-08-03 09:07:46 briareus has joined
 577 2011-08-03 09:07:47 briareus has quit (Changing host)
 578 2011-08-03 09:07:47 briareus has joined
 579 2011-08-03 09:07:54 <asher^> heh
 580 2011-08-03 09:08:12 <asher^> i need a better understanding of this stuff
 581 2011-08-03 09:08:23 <asher^> what makes a miner do a getwork?
 582 2011-08-03 09:08:25 Incitatus has joined
 583 2011-08-03 09:08:29 <asher^> certain amount of time?
 584 2011-08-03 09:08:55 <Eliel> that depends on the miner
 585 2011-08-03 09:09:16 * Caesium loves these answers :)
 586 2011-08-03 09:09:16 <[7]> asher^: max age for work on most pools is 120 seconds, <60 seconds are recommended
 587 2011-08-03 09:09:24 <Caesium> almost every answer is (validly) "it depends" :D
 588 2011-08-03 09:09:28 <Eliel> for example, phoenix never touches ntime, so it'll do 2**32 hashes and then ask more.
 589 2011-08-03 09:09:50 <asher^> you mean on average?
 590 2011-08-03 09:10:08 <Caesium> actually, does phoenix stop when it finds a share?
 591 2011-08-03 09:10:09 <Eliel> no, 2**32 is how many hashes there is on one full noncerange
 592 2011-08-03 09:10:14 <asher^> ah
 593 2011-08-03 09:10:16 <Caesium> so the average will be half that?
 594 2011-08-03 09:10:41 <Eliel> Caesium: I don't think the newer versions do that anymore.
 595 2011-08-03 09:11:00 <asher^> Eliel what are the hashrates on your cards that do 7-8 shares/work?
 596 2011-08-03 09:11:10 <Eliel> 350Mh/s
 597 2011-08-03 09:11:23 <Caesium> with rollntime I assume
 598 2011-08-03 09:11:28 <Eliel> yes
 599 2011-08-03 09:11:31 <Eliel> poclbm
 600 2011-08-03 09:11:36 <Caesium> that bumps it up. a lot.
 601 2011-08-03 09:11:39 <asher^> ok cool
 602 2011-08-03 09:12:00 <asher^> [7] thanks too, 2 mins is lower than i thought it would be
 603 2011-08-03 09:12:39 <[7]> the general recommendation is to stay below 60 seconds to allow for new transactions to propagate into blocks fast enough
 604 2011-08-03 09:12:56 <Eliel> I'm not sure how many ntime possibilities there are but it's like extra bits for the nonce :)
 605 2011-08-03 09:13:09 <Caesium> not sure if there's a limit on it?
 606 2011-08-03 09:13:16 <asher^> i need to read over how ntime works, ive only glanced at it
 607 2011-08-03 09:13:18 <Caesium> you can keep on incrementing until LP, I guess?
 608 2011-08-03 09:13:29 <Eliel> Caesium: pretty much
 609 2011-08-03 09:13:33 <[7]> Caesium: that way you would only be mining old transactions
 610 2011-08-03 09:13:41 <[7]> that's the reason for that 60 second limit
 611 2011-08-03 09:13:51 <[7]> (most pools enforce 120 seconds but recommend 60 seconds)
 612 2011-08-03 09:14:00 <Caesium> as a tiny startup I've set it to 10 minutes.
 613 2011-08-03 09:14:16 <Caesium> I realise this means I'll miss transactions, but I don't think the network will suffer out of my one block a week
 614 2011-08-03 09:14:24 <Caesium> and I need to encourage growth ;)
 615 2011-08-03 09:14:25 <[7]> so sane miner software will ask for new work at least every 60 seconds
 616 2011-08-03 09:14:31 <asher^> so having a longer time limit is better for the pool but bad for the network
 617 2011-08-03 09:14:48 <Eliel> Caesium: is there some benefit for your pool from that 10 minutes?
 618 2011-08-03 09:14:49 <Caesium> yeah thats about the long and short of it
 619 2011-08-03 09:14:54 <[7]> asher^: I don't think it affects the pool much
 620 2011-08-03 09:14:56 <Caesium> Eliel: I have a guy mining on his htpc ;)
 621 2011-08-03 09:15:04 <Caesium> Eliel: so he does a share every 8 minutes or so
 622 2011-08-03 09:15:11 <[7]> you could do some logging to check if anyone ever exceeds the 120 second limit
 623 2011-08-03 09:15:21 <Caesium> and he came and asked very nicely about it
 624 2011-08-03 09:15:41 <[7]> only doing a share every 8 minutes doesn't affect this at all
 625 2011-08-03 09:15:56 <[7]> you'll only need to request new work at least every 60 seconds, even if you haven't fully processed the old work
 626 2011-08-03 09:16:03 <Caesium> well, he wasn't
 627 2011-08-03 09:16:11 <[7]> that's broken miner software then
 628 2011-08-03 09:16:21 <Caesium> didn't catch what miner he was using, he's still around on IRC sometimes, I'll check with him
 629 2011-08-03 09:17:01 <Eliel> also, for slow miners, you can easily have many slow miners sharing one getwork from bitcoind.
 630 2011-08-03 09:17:07 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 631 2011-08-03 09:17:10 <Eliel> just set the nonceranges
 632 2011-08-03 09:17:23 <Caesium> which miners obey that so far?
 633 2011-08-03 09:17:28 <Caesium> seems fairly new and unsupported?
 634 2011-08-03 09:18:01 <Eliel> some do, some don't. you can most likely make lists on which clients do and don't.
 635 2011-08-03 09:18:24 <Eliel> and then try to encourage people using bad miners to upgrade/switch
 636 2011-08-03 09:19:31 <Eliel> you might perhaps ask luke if he would share his lists. I know he's made some.
 637 2011-08-03 09:21:27 bittwist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 638 2011-08-03 09:21:29 zeropointo has joined
 639 2011-08-03 09:22:05 Clipse has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 640 2011-08-03 09:24:01 zeropointo has quit (Quit: leaving)
 641 2011-08-03 09:25:15 bitcoinbulletin has joined
 642 2011-08-03 09:33:10 bittwist has joined
 643 2011-08-03 09:35:03 Clipse has joined
 644 2011-08-03 09:42:08 <asher^> are miners connecting to pools essentially persistent connections? or do they close?
 645 2011-08-03 09:43:43 nemesis51 has joined
 646 2011-08-03 09:44:11 <Caesium> Eliel: having just thought about it while taking a shower (tmi) I don't see how noncerange helps against LP stales
 647 2011-08-03 09:44:30 <Caesium> Eliel: a stale is generated when old work is submitted, fine, but a noncerange doesn't help a miner against that - it simply causes work to be fetched more often
 648 2011-08-03 09:44:38 <Caesium> it doesn't matter if the work is 1 second old or 45 seconds old?
 649 2011-08-03 09:45:44 <Eliel> Caesium: ok, let's see the problem first. The problem with rejects on LP is that on bigger pools it can take several seconds until the pool manages to LP the new work to the client. If any work gets done during this time, it's stale, so gets rejected.
 650 2011-08-03 09:45:59 <Caesium> right.
 651 2011-08-03 09:46:21 <Caesium> so the better fix would be to get LPs out quicker? :)
 652 2011-08-03 09:46:23 <Eliel> the problem is caused by the fact that bitcoind's getwork is pretty slow.
 653 2011-08-03 09:46:47 <Caesium> so with noncerange it becomes a tossup between doing possibly stale work, or doing no work
 654 2011-08-03 09:46:51 <Eliel> so, if you can reduce calls needed to bitcoind, you can get people fresh work faster.
 655 2011-08-03 09:47:21 <Caesium> yeah, ok
 656 2011-08-03 09:47:27 <Caesium> guess that makes sense :)
 657 2011-08-03 09:48:13 <Eliel> so, on LP, you don't give people full getworks but rather subdivide one bitcoind getwork so you can give it to several. This is a lot faster than asking bitcoind for a work each time
 658 2011-08-03 09:48:48 <Eliel> but you only do this on LP when it's crucial to get work out fast
 659 2011-08-03 09:50:00 <Eliel> give enough work to keep them busy until you're done with giving everyone some work and then you can proceed to sending them more work.
 660 2011-08-03 09:50:03 <Eliel> full works
 661 2011-08-03 09:50:28 <Eliel> of course, this requires taking the miner's hashrate into account in deciding how much work to give
 662 2011-08-03 09:51:03 TheAncientGoat has joined
 663 2011-08-03 09:51:33 TheMalon has joined
 664 2011-08-03 09:53:08 TheMalon has left ()
 665 2011-08-03 09:53:37 <Caesium> noncerange changes don't seem to be public
 666 2011-08-03 09:53:48 <Caesium> can't find em on his gitorious, there was a noncerange branch but it's been deleted
 667 2011-08-03 09:54:27 <Eliel> you mean luke's gitorious repo? He's probably already merged the changes to his main branch
 668 2011-08-03 09:54:37 <Caesium> yeah
 669 2011-08-03 09:56:05 <Eliel> the changes have been running on eligius for quite a while now and I haven't seen hiccups, so they're pretty stable :)
 670 2011-08-03 09:56:16 <Eliel> well, a few days
 671 2011-08-03 09:57:40 <Caesium> don't see it in main branch either
 672 2011-08-03 09:57:43 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
 673 2011-08-03 09:59:56 bliket_ has joined
 674 2011-08-03 10:00:12 <bliket_> developers developers developers developers
 675 2011-08-03 10:00:19 <bliket_> zebellafruit zebellafruit zebellafruit zebellafruit
 676 2011-08-03 10:06:43 <lfm> huh
 677 2011-08-03 10:07:23 MobiusL_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 678 2011-08-03 10:07:30 MobiusL has joined
 679 2011-08-03 10:32:13 Tiggr has joined
 680 2011-08-03 10:35:21 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 681 2011-08-03 10:35:28 Tiggr is now known as MrTiggr
 682 2011-08-03 10:37:59 Tiggr has joined
 683 2011-08-03 10:38:55 MrTiggr has quit (Disconnected by services)
 684 2011-08-03 10:39:01 Tiggr is now known as MrTiggr
 685 2011-08-03 10:40:24 upb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 686 2011-08-03 10:43:03 BlueMatt has joined
 687 2011-08-03 10:45:08 klikklak has joined
 688 2011-08-03 11:00:22 Blitzboom_ has joined
 689 2011-08-03 11:00:39 Blitzboom has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 690 2011-08-03 11:01:09 erle- has joined
 691 2011-08-03 11:04:38 Blitzboom_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 692 2011-08-03 11:05:02 Blitzboom has joined
 693 2011-08-03 11:05:02 Blitzboom has quit (Changing host)
 694 2011-08-03 11:05:02 Blitzboom has joined
 695 2011-08-03 11:09:00 Tiggr has joined
 696 2011-08-03 11:10:16 MrTiggr has quit (Disconnected by services)
 697 2011-08-03 11:10:19 Tiggr is now known as MrTiggr
 698 2011-08-03 11:14:44 Superbest has joined
 699 2011-08-03 11:18:02 denisx has joined
 700 2011-08-03 11:22:09 upb has joined
 701 2011-08-03 11:24:06 maikmerten has joined
 702 2011-08-03 11:32:42 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 703 2011-08-03 11:35:24 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 704 2011-08-03 11:40:28 sgornick has joined
 705 2011-08-03 11:45:25 dbitcoin has joined
 706 2011-08-03 11:46:23 theorbtwo has joined
 707 2011-08-03 11:48:46 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 708 2011-08-03 11:55:20 BlueMatt has joined
 709 2011-08-03 11:55:26 howard has joined
 710 2011-08-03 11:58:14 <howard> hi! please do me a favor and send some testnet coins to      my96BYHsQXCfitVoSyipAp43VeUSrPo1x2      , that would be greatly appreciated! thanks!
 711 2011-08-03 11:58:39 Incitatus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 712 2011-08-03 11:59:02 Katapult has joined
 713 2011-08-03 12:00:50 somuchwin2 has joined
 714 2011-08-03 12:01:36 somuchwin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 715 2011-08-03 12:04:43 Incitatus has joined
 716 2011-08-03 12:06:25 kluge has quit (Quit: ....)
 717 2011-08-03 12:06:43 <Caesium> howard: sure
 718 2011-08-03 12:07:39 <howard> thank you :)
 719 2011-08-03 12:08:13 <Caesium> done, 30 btc
 720 2011-08-03 12:10:20 SISUbtcX has joined
 721 2011-08-03 12:12:04 MrTiggr has quit (Quit: TTFN Ta!Ta! For Now)
 722 2011-08-03 12:14:54 <Caesium> 1 confirmation at my end
 723 2011-08-03 12:17:37 MrTiggr has joined
 724 2011-08-03 12:18:10 dvide has quit ()
 725 2011-08-03 12:19:10 RealSolid has joined
 726 2011-08-03 12:20:24 Tiggr has joined
 727 2011-08-03 12:21:53 Tiggr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 728 2011-08-03 12:22:43 m1nus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 729 2011-08-03 12:23:15 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVM•AVTEM•CENSEO•CVTTENBERC•ESSE•DELENDVM)
 730 2011-08-03 12:23:24 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 731 2011-08-03 12:26:51 gp5st1 has joined
 732 2011-08-03 12:27:00 gp5st1 has quit (Client Quit)
 733 2011-08-03 12:28:50 <JFK911> http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/00002207.html
 734 2011-08-03 12:28:52 MrTiggr has joined
 735 2011-08-03 12:30:01 mmoya has joined
 736 2011-08-03 12:31:23 <RealSolid> nice
 737 2011-08-03 12:33:52 <asher^> how long should long poll connections be kept alive before being dropped?
 738 2011-08-03 12:35:41 hugolp has quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
 739 2011-08-03 12:35:59 Akinava has quit (Quit: Akinava)
 740 2011-08-03 12:36:24 b4epoche_ has joined
 741 2011-08-03 12:42:26 Superbest has quit (Quit: It's time to man up and end this)
 742 2011-08-03 12:44:09 MrTiggr has quit (Quit: bainow)
 743 2011-08-03 12:47:38 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 744 2011-08-03 12:48:23 normanrichards has joined
 745 2011-08-03 12:50:20 normanrichards has quit (Client Quit)
 746 2011-08-03 12:53:17 MrTiggr has joined
 747 2011-08-03 12:54:27 AStove has joined
 748 2011-08-03 12:59:15 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 749 2011-08-03 13:05:47 cdecker has joined
 750 2011-08-03 13:06:55 normanrichards has joined
 751 2011-08-03 13:11:04 cdecker has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 752 2011-08-03 13:11:29 DaQatz has joined
 753 2011-08-03 13:11:47 BlueMatt has joined
 754 2011-08-03 13:14:18 MrTiggr has quit (Quit: bainow)
 755 2011-08-03 13:16:37 vigilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 756 2011-08-03 13:19:31 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 757 2011-08-03 13:19:32 MrTiggr has joined
 758 2011-08-03 13:20:11 copumpkin has joined
 759 2011-08-03 13:23:25 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 760 2011-08-03 13:24:32 SomeoneWeird has joined
 761 2011-08-03 13:25:08 b4epoche_ has joined
 762 2011-08-03 13:25:10 <SomeoneWeird> Hey guys, where abouts in the bitcoin source is the block transaction stuff?
 763 2011-08-03 13:25:43 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
 764 2011-08-03 13:27:55 MagicalTux has quit (Quit: Bye, see you later!)
 765 2011-08-03 13:27:58 <edcba> grep
 766 2011-08-03 13:27:59 <edcba> use it
 767 2011-08-03 13:28:12 <edcba> or alternatively an IDE
 768 2011-08-03 13:28:16 devrando1 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 769 2011-08-03 13:29:43 MT`AwAy has joined
 770 2011-08-03 13:30:41 <wumpus> SomeoneWeird: main.cpp mostly
 771 2011-08-03 13:31:07 MT`AwAy is now known as MagicalTux
 772 2011-08-03 13:31:12 MagicalTux has quit (Changing host)
 773 2011-08-03 13:31:12 MagicalTux has joined
 774 2011-08-03 13:31:21 <SomeoneWeird> i've tried edcba, but alot of stuff comes up when i grep block or whatever
 775 2011-08-03 13:31:27 <SomeoneWeird> k thanks wumpus
 776 2011-08-03 13:33:47 <edcba> yes anyway everything is in main.cpp :(
 777 2011-08-03 13:34:48 vigilyn has joined
 778 2011-08-03 13:34:49 devrandom has joined
 779 2011-08-03 13:37:40 Tritonio has joined
 780 2011-08-03 13:44:38 <wumpus> edcba: cool uh, you never have to wonder
 781 2011-08-03 13:44:54 temporalcause has joined
 782 2011-08-03 13:44:55 <edcba> lol
 783 2011-08-03 13:46:40 howard has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 784 2011-08-03 13:52:27 p0s has joined
 785 2011-08-03 13:53:10 bitcoinbulletin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 786 2011-08-03 13:55:13 bitcoinbulletin has joined
 787 2011-08-03 13:56:00 RobinPKR has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 788 2011-08-03 13:56:14 RobinPKR has joined
 789 2011-08-03 14:10:02 kreal- has joined
 790 2011-08-03 14:12:22 kreal- has left ()
 791 2011-08-03 14:17:01 {3r1c} has joined
 792 2011-08-03 14:17:45 glassresistor has joined
 793 2011-08-03 14:17:55 temporalcause has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 794 2011-08-03 14:18:39 Tritonio has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 795 2011-08-03 14:20:51 cjdelisle has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 796 2011-08-03 14:22:43 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 797 2011-08-03 14:26:20 erle- has joined
 798 2011-08-03 14:31:18 Zagitta has quit ()
 799 2011-08-03 14:31:55 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
 800 2011-08-03 14:36:08 nr9 has joined
 801 2011-08-03 14:43:59 devon_hillard has joined
 802 2011-08-03 14:47:40 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 803 2011-08-03 14:48:17 b4epoche_ has joined
 804 2011-08-03 14:49:08 copumpkin has joined
 805 2011-08-03 14:50:45 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 806 2011-08-03 14:52:57 b4epoche_ has joined
 807 2011-08-03 15:04:17 undersco2 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 808 2011-08-03 15:06:53 shawn-p has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 809 2011-08-03 15:07:57 neofutur has joined
 810 2011-08-03 15:08:15 <neofutur> hi all, a little question concerning the currency issuance limit of 21 million bitcoins
 811 2011-08-03 15:09:11 <neofutur> when coins disappear ( like the coins "lost" at mybitcoin or bitomat ) , will they be automatically somewhat replaced  by the software/network/miners
 812 2011-08-03 15:09:26 <tcatm> neofutur: nope
 813 2011-08-03 15:09:30 <neofutur> or is it possible to loose 20 million bitcoins and finally have only 1 million ?
 814 2011-08-03 15:09:36 <tcatm> neofutur: they're lost forever
 815 2011-08-03 15:09:41 <[7]> that's very likely actually :)
 816 2011-08-03 15:09:46 <neofutur> seems a little dangerous imho
 817 2011-08-03 15:09:47 <[7]> there is no way to detect if a coin was lost
 818 2011-08-03 15:10:08 <copumpkin> it's unsettling, but there's no solution
 819 2011-08-03 15:10:09 <copumpkin> :P
 820 2011-08-03 15:10:17 <tcatm> neofutur: we have nearly infinite precision so (currently limited to 8 decimals)
 821 2011-08-03 15:10:34 <neofutur> but its also one more reason to have the bitcoin price go up . . .
 822 2011-08-03 15:11:42 shawn-p has joined
 823 2011-08-03 15:12:52 <neofutur> bitcoin is really deisgned to go up / built for success ;)
 824 2011-08-03 15:15:17 BlueMatt has joined
 825 2011-08-03 15:16:13 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt, how is 0.4 progressing?
 826 2011-08-03 15:17:12 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 827 2011-08-03 15:21:23 <BlueMatt> you'll have to ask sipa
 828 2011-08-03 15:21:29 <BlueMatt> its just import/export thats left
 829 2011-08-03 15:21:41 <BlueMatt> and I have no idea when/if thats pull-able now
 830 2011-08-03 15:24:07 <Blitzboom> i think it would be a good move if we finally would have wallet encryption …
 831 2011-08-03 15:24:33 <BlueMatt> ;;seen sipa
 832 2011-08-03 15:24:33 <gribble> sipa was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 3 days, 4 hours, 13 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <sipa> ;;later tell riush could you try again? the 'unknown key' error should be fixed when removing keys
 833 2011-08-03 15:24:42 <Blitzboom> after the mybitcoin debacle
 834 2011-08-03 15:24:48 <Blitzboom> and bitomat debacle
 835 2011-08-03 15:24:51 <Blitzboom> and mtgox debacle
 836 2011-08-03 15:24:55 <Blitzboom> and allinvain debacle
 837 2011-08-03 15:24:58 <BlueMatt> very different cases
 838 2011-08-03 15:25:03 <Blitzboom> not really
 839 2011-08-03 15:25:09 <BlueMatt> mybitcoin, no shit they are gonna run away with your money
 840 2011-08-03 15:25:15 <Blitzboom> all of them were too lazy to do proper backuped encrypted wallets
 841 2011-08-03 15:25:17 <BlueMatt> bitomat, hahahahahahahaha
 842 2011-08-03 15:25:25 <BlueMatt> huh?
 843 2011-08-03 15:25:25 <Blitzboom> i mean all of their customers
 844 2011-08-03 15:25:27 <BlueMatt> not relevant
 845 2011-08-03 15:25:31 <Blitzboom> ?
 846 2011-08-03 15:25:39 <BlueMatt> their customers dont get to back up the wallets
 847 2011-08-03 15:25:52 <Blitzboom> i mean they sohuld have used OWN WALLETS
 848 2011-08-03 15:25:53 <BlueMatt> and none of them lost because their wallets were stolen
 849 2011-08-03 15:25:59 <BlueMatt> well thats true
 850 2011-08-03 15:26:03 <Blitzboom> we need to make it easy to actually use bitcoin >_>
 851 2011-08-03 15:26:06 <MrTiggr> For the rcord guys -->  #bitcoin-police :: Report Bitcoin Offences here. CURRENT INVESTIGATION INTO MYBITCOIN.COM INFO HERE  http://pastebin.com/MfPt99eR
 852 2011-08-03 15:26:08 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 853 2011-08-03 15:26:23 <BlueMatt> lulwut
 854 2011-08-03 15:26:28 <Blitzboom> with the encrypted wallet feature in bitcoin, at least you don’t have to use trucrypt or something else
 855 2011-08-03 15:26:37 <Blitzboom> so it gets a bit easier
 856 2011-08-03 15:26:40 <BlueMatt> yea
 857 2011-08-03 15:26:51 <BlueMatt> though not many have lost coins due to lack of encryption
 858 2011-08-03 15:26:54 <Blitzboom> deterministic wallets would make it even easier
 859 2011-08-03 15:26:59 <BlueMatt> in fact, encryption of wallets does almost nothing
 860 2011-08-03 15:27:02 <BlueMatt> mostly pr
 861 2011-08-03 15:27:22 Pilate has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
 862 2011-08-03 15:27:23 <Blitzboom> i doubt that keyloggers are as common/easy as simple wallet stealers …
 863 2011-08-03 15:27:38 <BlueMatt> not realy
 864 2011-08-03 15:27:45 Pilate has joined
 865 2011-08-03 15:27:52 <BlueMatt> its not gonna take long for someone to write a really nice wallet stealing program
 866 2011-08-03 15:27:55 coderrr has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 867 2011-08-03 15:27:57 <edcba> keyloggers are more widespread of course
 868 2011-08-03 15:27:57 <BlueMatt> and then people will just use that...
 869 2011-08-03 15:28:15 <edcba> they don't need a wallet stealing program
 870 2011-08-03 15:28:19 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: so i guess online bank accounts and paypal are useless too?
 871 2011-08-03 15:28:20 <edcba> they just need to copy a file
 872 2011-08-03 15:28:54 no has joined
 873 2011-08-03 15:29:03 <BlueMatt> well I mean a nice wallet stealer that will parse your keylogger nicely and steal the wallet and make sure you get the exact passphrase
 874 2011-08-03 15:29:15 <BlueMatt> Blitzboom: from the security perspective, actually yes
 875 2011-08-03 15:29:19 SomeoneWeird has quit (Disconnected by services)
 876 2011-08-03 15:29:24 no is now known as SomeoneWeird
 877 2011-08-03 15:29:31 <Blitzboom> my bank account has never been robbed, neither paypal
 878 2011-08-03 15:29:36 <BlueMatt> thats my point
 879 2011-08-03 15:29:39 <Blitzboom> so i guess i’m fine, like 99% of other people
 880 2011-08-03 15:29:47 <BlueMatt> as with unencrypted wallets
 881 2011-08-03 15:29:49 suriv has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 882 2011-08-03 15:30:30 <Blitzboom> BlueMatt: unencrypted wallets make it easy to back them up
 883 2011-08-03 15:30:36 <gmaxwell> Not nothing, which is why its worth doing, but almost nothing.
 884 2011-08-03 15:30:38 suriv has joined
 885 2011-08-03 15:30:39 <Blitzboom> er, encrypted one
 886 2011-08-03 15:30:48 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yep
 887 2011-08-03 15:30:58 <BlueMatt> as many have pointed out, its largely pr
 888 2011-08-03 15:31:22 <gmaxwell> I'm still concerned that the net effect of encrypted wallet will be more loss for users, but there isn't much we can do about that.
 889 2011-08-03 15:31:55 <Blitzboom> i doubt that it is a net loss in bitcoins
 890 2011-08-03 15:31:57 <BlueMatt> MrTiggr: lol that pastebin is quite laughable
 891 2011-08-03 15:32:03 <Blitzboom> maybe a net loss in users losing their wallets
 892 2011-08-03 15:32:24 <Blitzboom> if you actually have a lot, you won’t simply forget your passphrase …
 893 2011-08-03 15:32:36 <gmaxwell> Blitzboom: it happens.
 894 2011-08-03 15:32:38 * BlueMatt agrees with gmaxwell 
 895 2011-08-03 15:32:48 <Blitzboom> i don’t know, show me statistics :P
 896 2011-08-03 15:33:10 coderrr has joined
 897 2011-08-03 15:33:54 <gmaxwell> We know for a fact that people frequently forget passwords, but you'll just argue that any stat I give you from e.g. something like a bank where passwords are recoverable, are distorted by the fact that passwords are recoverable. ::shrugs::
 898 2011-08-03 15:34:23 <IO-> its not just PR, once its encrypted someone can't come up to my computer/phone send out all my BTC without my password. like having a pin on my debt card makes it safer then not having a pin to spend on it
 899 2011-08-03 15:34:25 <IO-> thats nice
 900 2011-08-03 15:34:34 <edcba> gmaxwell: they can note passwords...
 901 2011-08-03 15:34:43 <edcba> and put it in their wallet
 902 2011-08-03 15:34:52 <BlueMatt> IO-: but if someone can copy your wallet, they can install a keylogger
 903 2011-08-03 15:34:58 <BlueMatt> so...
 904 2011-08-03 15:35:01 <gmaxwell> IO-: it's not just PR, I agree. But what it does is fairly minimal, less than a lot of people expect.
 905 2011-08-03 15:35:07 <edcba> not necessarily but...
 906 2011-08-03 15:35:17 <IO-> its another level of protection and it's a good idea
 907 2011-08-03 15:35:21 <gmaxwell> edcba: Everyone should do that, but 99.9999% won't.
 908 2011-08-03 15:35:27 <IO-> someone can look over my shoulder at my debt pin number to
 909 2011-08-03 15:35:42 <IO-> someone can put a gun to my head for my bank info also.
 910 2011-08-03 15:35:46 <IO-> can't protect from everything
 911 2011-08-03 15:36:35 <RealSolid> which one of you early adopters took all the USD from mtgox
 912 2011-08-03 15:36:44 <BlueMatt> Im not saying its not good to have ,just that in reality, it does very, very little
 913 2011-08-03 15:36:46 <gmaxwell> IO-: I think you're under a mistaken perception of the position BlueMatt and I are advancing.  He spent a lot of time writing the software. I spent a lot of time testing it. We both support the feature.
 914 2011-08-03 15:37:04 <IO-> its a great feature and it'll help adoption
 915 2011-08-03 15:37:09 <gmaxwell> But it's also important to be realistic about its limits and risks, otherwise it'll burn you too.
 916 2011-08-03 15:37:11 <IO-> you both did really well and its appreciated
 917 2011-08-03 15:37:49 <MrTiggr> BlueMat if you have contradictory info then please tell us
 918 2011-08-03 15:37:49 sytse_ has joined
 919 2011-08-03 15:37:57 sytse has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 920 2011-08-03 15:38:05 sytse_ is now known as sytse
 921 2011-08-03 15:38:17 evelyn66 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 922 2011-08-03 15:38:25 <BlueMatt> no, I just find it comical, what are you going to do?
 923 2011-08-03 15:38:37 <BlueMatt> even if you do trace it to a person, so what?
 924 2011-08-03 15:38:43 <gmaxwell> It's most effective against the (soon to be ex-)wife attack. It's pretty much ineffective against the cracker attacks which inspired a lot of demand for it.  It makes backups slightly more likely to be secure, but also less likely to be effective.
 925 2011-08-03 15:38:43 <jtaylor> BlueMatt: installing a keylogger usually requires admin rights, copying a wallet does not, huge difference
 926 2011-08-03 15:38:53 <BlueMatt> not on windows
 927 2011-08-03 15:39:21 <BlueMatt> admin rights are laughably easy to get on windows, or really any desktop environment
 928 2011-08-03 15:39:40 <jtaylor> when the user is stupid yes
 929 2011-08-03 15:39:44 <jtaylor> nothing can protect against that
 930 2011-08-03 15:39:55 <BlueMatt> if the user is smart, you arent gonna lose your wallet anyway ;)
 931 2011-08-03 15:39:56 <RealSolid> windows servers are fine
 932 2011-08-03 15:39:59 <BlueMatt> haha
 933 2011-08-03 15:40:04 <gmaxwell> (I myself have old encrypted backups from >10 years ago which I can't access because I don't remember the pass phrase— I don't _think_ I've lost any data do to that, but I'm not sure because I can't open the file)
 934 2011-08-03 15:40:13 <RealSolid> many of the largest sites are windows servers, they dont get hacked
 935 2011-08-03 15:40:20 <BlueMatt> haha
 936 2011-08-03 15:40:26 <IO-> i've lost old backups because i forgot the password also
 937 2011-08-03 15:40:31 <RealSolid> more than top linux ones anyhow
 938 2011-08-03 15:40:33 <BlueMatt> "many of the largest sites are windows servers" <--- hahahaha
 939 2011-08-03 15:40:44 WakiMiko has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 940 2011-08-03 15:41:39 <RealSolid> codeproject
 941 2011-08-03 15:41:54 <BlueMatt> how is that a "largest sites"?
 942 2011-08-03 15:41:57 <RealSolid> msn.com
 943 2011-08-03 15:42:01 <BlueMatt> hahaha
 944 2011-08-03 15:42:08 <RealSolid> and others :P
 945 2011-08-03 15:42:15 <BlueMatt> yea...no
 946 2011-08-03 15:42:24 <BlueMatt> anyway
 947 2011-08-03 15:42:28 WakiMiko has joined
 948 2011-08-03 15:42:37 <RealSolid> godday?
 949 2011-08-03 15:42:39 <BlueMatt> do we enforce connection count per ip on incoming connections?
 950 2011-08-03 15:42:40 <RealSolid> godaddy rather
 951 2011-08-03 15:42:47 <BlueMatt> hahahahaha
 952 2011-08-03 15:42:52 <RealSolid> theres many big sites on windows is all im saying
 953 2011-08-03 15:42:56 <BlueMatt> have you ever seen godaddy's site?
 954 2011-08-03 15:43:03 <RealSolid> yeah its slow
 955 2011-08-03 15:43:08 <BlueMatt> if their coders/it/etc people had any idea wtf they were doing...
 956 2011-08-03 15:43:09 <RealSolid> im just talking hacks though
 957 2011-08-03 15:43:13 <BlueMatt> well lets just say they need to be shot
 958 2011-08-03 15:43:18 <RealSolid> windows server isnt inherently insecure
 959 2011-08-03 15:43:27 <BlueMatt> never said it was
 960 2011-08-03 15:43:29 <RealSolid> its the websites built on it and shitty admins which make it insecure, like linux
 961 2011-08-03 15:43:50 <BlueMatt> but it has had disproportionately more security vulns that any other os, by far
 962 2011-08-03 15:43:53 <BlueMatt> like way far
 963 2011-08-03 15:43:59 <RealSolid> server side even?
 964 2011-08-03 15:44:01 <BlueMatt> yes
 965 2011-08-03 15:44:37 <RealSolid> interesting, well ive run some windoze sites, and they are nice and secure multiple years now
 966 2011-08-03 15:44:42 <RealSolid> not a single attack
 967 2011-08-03 15:44:51 <RealSolid> successful rather
 968 2011-08-03 15:44:53 <BlueMatt> that doesnt mean too much
 969 2011-08-03 15:45:23 Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 970 2011-08-03 15:45:37 <BlueMatt> you see someone like google say that to run a windows computer for any reason on campus you have to get permission from some rather high-up it guys, well...
 971 2011-08-03 15:46:05 <RealSolid> on campus?
 972 2011-08-03 15:46:13 <BlueMatt> ie on their site and on their network
 973 2011-08-03 15:46:16 <RealSolid> ah yes
 974 2011-08-03 15:46:20 <cut> you have to do that anywhere that doesnt have an open network
 975 2011-08-03 15:46:32 <BlueMatt> huh?
 976 2011-08-03 15:46:39 <cut> not just google
 977 2011-08-03 15:46:45 <RealSolid> google just want their employers to use chrome as their os and google.com as their start button
 978 2011-08-03 15:46:47 <BlueMatt> no, I mean you can gladly log in with linux or osx, but to run windows you have to get special permission
 979 2011-08-03 15:46:50 <RealSolid> employees rather
 980 2011-08-03 15:47:27 <BlueMatt> but they specifically selected to stop using windows because of some security exploits
 981 2011-08-03 15:47:50 <cut> so the google admins would rather have unidentified linux machines on their network
 982 2011-08-03 15:47:52 underscor has joined
 983 2011-08-03 15:47:55 <imsaguy2> The security exploits in Windows past aren't the same as today's
 984 2011-08-03 15:48:05 <BlueMatt> uh...that was like a year ago
 985 2011-08-03 15:48:20 <BlueMatt> and what was it like 3 weeks ago they patched a very critical vuln in the bluetooth stack
 986 2011-08-03 15:48:27 <RealSolid> if linux was as popular on the desktop theyd likely have as many "exploits"
 987 2011-08-03 15:48:28 <BlueMatt> that let anyone get kernel-level code running
 988 2011-08-03 15:48:41 <BlueMatt> without any user notifications, just by you having bluetooth on
 989 2011-08-03 15:48:55 <RealSolid> and linux is too varied to make a generic virus
 990 2011-08-03 15:49:08 <imsaguy2> If linux were as user centric as Windows with every dick and jane running it, it would see more problems.
 991 2011-08-03 15:49:08 <BlueMatt> RealSolid: actually, since linux has such a large majority in the server market, people are very interested in linux
 992 2011-08-03 15:49:14 <RealSolid> which is also why developers stay away
 993 2011-08-03 15:49:17 <BlueMatt> haha
 994 2011-08-03 15:49:24 <jtaylor> don't feed the troll
 995 2011-08-03 15:49:34 <RealSolid> bluematt: compare money made on windows software vs linux :P
 996 2011-08-03 15:49:35 <BlueMatt> I know more developers who prefer linux by sooo much...
 997 2011-08-03 15:49:36 <imsaguy2> nom nom nom
 998 2011-08-03 15:49:42 <BlueMatt> uhhh...linux is free
 999 2011-08-03 15:49:50 <RealSolid> the software written for windows
1000 2011-08-03 15:49:55 <BlueMatt> hahaha
1001 2011-08-03 15:49:58 <BlueMatt> trolololololol
1002 2011-08-03 15:50:02 <RealSolid> devs want to get paid son
1003 2011-08-03 15:50:17 <BlueMatt> keep living in a dream world
1004 2011-08-03 15:50:18 <imsaguy2> 'son'
1005 2011-08-03 15:50:40 <RealSolid> bluematt: have you developed anything for desktop linux
1006 2011-08-03 15:50:48 <BlueMatt> yea...bitcoin
1007 2011-08-03 15:50:56 <RealSolid> haha
1008 2011-08-03 15:51:11 <BlueMatt> have you ever done any research on windows vulns
1009 2011-08-03 15:51:11 <RealSolid> what else
1010 2011-08-03 15:51:13 <BlueMatt> clearly not
1011 2011-08-03 15:51:25 <RealSolid> i used to write security software for windows, but yeah clearly not ;)
1012 2011-08-03 15:51:33 <BlueMatt> hahaha
1013 2011-08-03 15:51:47 <RealSolid> what vulns in particular?
1014 2011-08-03 15:52:07 <RealSolid> kernel sploits? user -> kernel breaking?
1015 2011-08-03 15:52:22 <wumpus> haha, yes if you want to earn money with 'security software' windows is a very good platform
1016 2011-08-03 15:52:32 glassresistor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1017 2011-08-03 15:52:39 <BlueMatt> there have been too many kernel vulns, and just general poor coding vulns
1018 2011-08-03 15:52:43 <RealSolid> XP had its share of kernel vulns
1019 2011-08-03 15:52:51 <BlueMatt> wrt to privilege escalation
1020 2011-08-03 15:52:54 <RealSolid> BlueMatt: most of the vuls are overstated
1021 2011-08-03 15:53:04 <BlueMatt> not really
1022 2011-08-03 15:53:08 <BlueMatt> if you know how to read they arent
1023 2011-08-03 15:53:36 <RealSolid> vista and more in particular the x64 series of windows fixed a lot of kernel flaws
1024 2011-08-03 15:53:46 <BlueMatt> some
1025 2011-08-03 15:53:51 <RealSolid> 32bit is still a little loose if you can manage to load a driver
1026 2011-08-03 15:53:54 <BlueMatt> still cause a shitton more
1027 2011-08-03 15:53:56 <RealSolid> 64bit much harder to do that
1028 2011-08-03 15:54:01 <RealSolid> need signed drivers now
1029 2011-08-03 15:54:24 <BlueMatt> so? if the drivers that are there have vulns you dont need your own drivers
1030 2011-08-03 15:55:14 <RealSolid> yah but unless youre running custom drivers, windows itself is fairly tight
1031 2011-08-03 15:55:24 <BlueMatt> hahahaha
1032 2011-08-03 15:55:29 <RealSolid> most of the time we sold our products on the notion that competitors were vulnerable
1033 2011-08-03 15:55:37 <RealSolid> and were sloppily coded in the kernel
1034 2011-08-03 15:55:52 <xelister> RealSolid: lol windows is secure
1035 2011-08-03 15:56:05 <BlueMatt> windows is tight, but the kernel is sloppy in many cases and that often leaves vulns there for years before they are found by m$
1036 2011-08-03 15:56:06 <xelister> RealSolid: son
1037 2011-08-03 15:56:09 <RealSolid> which they often were
1038 2011-08-03 15:56:14 <xelister> RealSolid: linux kernel developers are paid
1039 2011-08-03 15:56:19 <RealSolid> i know xelister
1040 2011-08-03 15:56:27 <RealSolid> its hard to make money as a 3rd party developer for desktop linux
1041 2011-08-03 15:56:36 <RealSolid> much harder than windows
1042 2011-08-03 15:56:40 <BlueMatt> hahaha
1043 2011-08-03 15:56:44 Darnoth has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1044 2011-08-03 15:56:56 <RealSolid> much less market for a start
1045 2011-08-03 15:56:56 d1g1t4l has joined
1046 2011-08-03 15:56:59 <BlueMatt> yes, its harder to make money on an os with 1% desktop market share...
1047 2011-08-03 15:57:01 <BlueMatt> wonder why
1048 2011-08-03 15:57:11 <RealSolid> 1%?
1049 2011-08-03 15:57:14 <BlueMatt> and yet for some reason the resulting programs tend to be better
1050 2011-08-03 15:57:19 <RealSolid> thought it was higher
1051 2011-08-03 15:57:22 <BlueMatt> or at least free
1052 2011-08-03 15:57:23 <xelister> BlueMatt: depends
1053 2011-08-03 15:57:24 <BlueMatt> desktop no
1054 2011-08-03 15:57:29 <RealSolid> bluematt: free yes, better no
1055 2011-08-03 15:57:34 <BlueMatt> server its like 80% depending on who you ask
1056 2011-08-03 15:57:34 <xelister> BlueMatt: linux does not have a good email gui client
1057 2011-08-03 15:57:37 glassresistor has joined
1058 2011-08-03 15:57:42 <BlueMatt> oh, I disagree there, but ok
1059 2011-08-03 15:57:51 <BlueMatt> haha, have you ever used windows applications?
1060 2011-08-03 15:58:08 <RealSolid> linux desktop neeeds to move away from X -server
1061 2011-08-03 15:58:10 <BlueMatt> 99% of them you have to pay for and like 2% actually do the thing they claim to without eating 99% cpu
1062 2011-08-03 15:58:12 <RealSolid> its junk
1063 2011-08-03 15:58:17 <xelister> RealSolid: so what then?
1064 2011-08-03 15:58:32 <RealSolid> once they have a solid base it will encourage developers
1065 2011-08-03 15:58:39 <BlueMatt> everyone loves to hate on X, unless you are programming directly for it (which no one does) its great
1066 2011-08-03 15:58:43 <xelister> what if not X-server?
1067 2011-08-03 15:58:46 <BlueMatt> it hasnt been buggy in years
1068 2011-08-03 15:59:02 <RealSolid> bluematt: conversely MANY windows apps talk directly to windows
1069 2011-08-03 15:59:14 <RealSolid> if you want to get conversions, make it easy
1070 2011-08-03 15:59:18 <BlueMatt> we have a very different architecture
1071 2011-08-03 15:59:24 <jtaylor> xelister: wayland :D
1072 2011-08-03 15:59:29 <BlueMatt> most linux apps talk directly to the windowing system
1073 2011-08-03 15:59:35 <RealSolid> wayland is nicer than windows API, so if that takes off willbe nice
1074 2011-08-03 15:59:36 <BlueMatt> sorry, window manager
1075 2011-08-03 15:59:36 <xelister> waylwhat?
1076 2011-08-03 15:59:49 <BlueMatt> wayland its that crap ubuntu keeps talking about switching to
1077 2011-08-03 15:59:53 <BlueMatt> nice api, but...
1078 2011-08-03 15:59:56 <jtaylor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)
1079 2011-08-03 16:00:00 spm_Draget has left ("Joining #reallife")
1080 2011-08-03 16:00:00 <RealSolid> nice API and nice design
1081 2011-08-03 16:00:18 <RealSolid> can still run crappy X on it
1082 2011-08-03 16:00:28 <RealSolid> but the new core desktop is better than windows
1083 2011-08-03 16:00:32 <BlueMatt> no one programs for x....
1084 2011-08-03 16:00:35 <RealSolid> which is something linux can hang its hat on
1085 2011-08-03 16:00:38 <BlueMatt> you program with gtk or qt
1086 2011-08-03 16:00:44 <RealSolid> bluematt: well they use X
1087 2011-08-03 16:00:54 <BlueMatt> but no end programmer has to know anything about x
1088 2011-08-03 16:00:55 <RealSolid> i mean wayland supports all the existing stuff
1089 2011-08-03 16:01:00 <BlueMatt> so it doesnt really matter
1090 2011-08-03 16:01:07 <RealSolid> bluematt: not really ,but yeah
1091 2011-08-03 16:01:18 <BlueMatt> in other words, your argument is invalid
1092 2011-08-03 16:01:21 <RealSolid> most people use SDL/Qt/etc because X is crap
1093 2011-08-03 16:01:28 <RealSolid> they wouldnt have to if it wasnt
1094 2011-08-03 16:01:34 <RealSolid> and then their apps would be lighter
1095 2011-08-03 16:01:37 <BlueMatt> no, because if you dont, your app wont look right
1096 2011-08-03 16:01:56 <BlueMatt> no windows applications talk directly to the frambuffer except games/etc, and those still go through dx
1097 2011-08-03 16:02:26 <RealSolid> like i said, MANY thousands of windows program speak directly to windows api
1098 2011-08-03 16:02:33 <RealSolid> on X its unheard of like you say
1099 2011-08-03 16:02:39 <BlueMatt> which is comparable to gtk
1100 2011-08-03 16:02:46 <BlueMatt> which all apps do
1101 2011-08-03 16:03:32 <RealSolid> gtk is standard?
1102 2011-08-03 16:03:35 d1g1t4l has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1103 2011-08-03 16:04:13 TheAncientGoat has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1104 2011-08-03 16:04:26 <BlueMatt> between it and qt, yes
1105 2011-08-03 16:04:37 <BlueMatt> (depending on whether you go gnome/kde/etc)
1106 2011-08-03 16:04:45 <RealSolid> too many linux fanatics love and admire the variance in guis, etc , when there should only be one for desktop linux
1107 2011-08-03 16:04:49 <RealSolid> hopefully thats wayland
1108 2011-08-03 16:05:02 <BlueMatt> lulwut
1109 2011-08-03 16:05:17 <mtrlt> that's the open source way of doing things
1110 2011-08-03 16:05:21 <BlueMatt> there are sooo many more useful guis for linux than for windows
1111 2011-08-03 16:05:22 <mtrlt> instead of solving disputes, fork it! :-)
1112 2011-08-03 16:05:27 <RealSolid> heh
1113 2011-08-03 16:05:36 <RealSolid> and thats why things like compiz still suck compared to vista/win7
1114 2011-08-03 16:05:43 <BlueMatt> well that is a problem, but if there is a legitimate feature you want that doesnt fit in...
1115 2011-08-03 16:05:44 <RealSolid> because the X-server architecture is ancient
1116 2011-08-03 16:05:47 <BlueMatt> hahahahaha
1117 2011-08-03 16:05:56 <BlueMatt> you think compiz sucks compared to win7?
1118 2011-08-03 16:05:58 <RealSolid> wayland will modernize linux desktop
1119 2011-08-03 16:06:03 <BlueMatt> hahaha
1120 2011-08-03 16:06:10 <RealSolid> bluematt: if you understood how both worked internally yes
1121 2011-08-03 16:06:17 <RealSolid> compiz has more features than vista
1122 2011-08-03 16:06:20 <BlueMatt> never said it worked nicely internaly
1123 2011-08-03 16:06:23 <RealSolid> more effects
1124 2011-08-03 16:06:29 <mtrlt> lol @ effects
1125 2011-08-03 16:06:30 <BlueMatt> but it works really well, has more useful effects
1126 2011-08-03 16:06:34 <mtrlt> effects suk
1127 2011-08-03 16:06:34 <RealSolid> compiz is a giant hack, full of flaws, designed to work on X
1128 2011-08-03 16:06:42 <RealSolid> they cant do it nicely like Vista did
1129 2011-08-03 16:06:44 <BlueMatt> I dont care about effects, but it has nice window placement stuff, and some really useful features
1130 2011-08-03 16:06:47 <xelister> UukGoblin: the 100$ has comed to be!
1131 2011-08-03 16:06:49 <mtrlt> i hate wobbly windows that don't allow me to do anything.
1132 2011-08-03 16:06:53 <xelister> UukGoblin: you can buy 10 btc @100 from me even today \o/
1133 2011-08-03 16:07:17 <RealSolid> bluematt: compiz does many things better than vista/win7 , has more features, but internally its much worse
1134 2011-08-03 16:07:23 <RealSolid> more wasteful, more inherent flaws
1135 2011-08-03 16:07:33 <xelister> BlueMatt, RealSolid while at it, they could make linux sound systems not suck an titanic cock
1136 2011-08-03 16:07:33 <BlueMatt> who cares?
1137 2011-08-03 16:07:46 <RealSolid> desktop users
1138 2011-08-03 16:08:07 <RealSolid> you can sit back on 1980s X-server technology and think thats going to get market share
1139 2011-08-03 16:08:13 <RealSolid> can/cant
1140 2011-08-03 16:08:18 <BlueMatt> no one cares about market share
1141 2011-08-03 16:08:20 <UukGoblin> xelister, no, I want to sell 10 btc @ 100, wanna buy?
1142 2011-08-03 16:08:27 <BlueMatt> also, have you used /any/ recent linux distro?
1143 2011-08-03 16:08:28 <xelister> UukGoblin: yes,
1144 2011-08-03 16:08:31 <RealSolid> xelister: they are also working on this i believe
1145 2011-08-03 16:08:38 <xelister> UukGoblin: if you first buy 20 btc from me @ 100
1146 2011-08-03 16:08:47 <RealSolid> i recently had to port something to linux and write for X-server and also pulseaudio
1147 2011-08-03 16:08:52 <RealSolid> was interesting
1148 2011-08-03 16:08:54 <UukGoblin> xelister, that's a "no"
1149 2011-08-03 16:09:00 <BlueMatt> you wrote it for X-server?
1150 2011-08-03 16:09:04 <BlueMatt> lol no wonder you hate it
1151 2011-08-03 16:09:08 Titeuf_87 has joined
1152 2011-08-03 16:09:09 <xelister> UukGoblin: you're not doing your part to bring @100 feauture to us
1153 2011-08-03 16:09:11 <xelister> =)
1154 2011-08-03 16:09:20 <RealSolid> bluematt: yeah to lower requirements for the app, runs on more distros
1155 2011-08-03 16:09:28 <RealSolid> i dont need anythnig but a framebuffer so
1156 2011-08-03 16:09:30 <BlueMatt> gtk will gladly run on any distro
1157 2011-08-03 16:09:40 <xelister> RealSolid: like, it is easier to run on LFS on FPGA with Hurd?
1158 2011-08-03 16:09:41 <RealSolid> sure, but my app isnt coded in gtk
1159 2011-08-03 16:09:51 <BlueMatt> if you can name one distro that wont work in gtk, or qt...
1160 2011-08-03 16:10:00 <xelister> BlueMatt: my LFS
1161 2011-08-03 16:10:10 <BlueMatt> thats not a distro
1162 2011-08-03 16:10:25 <BlueMatt> unless you are giving copies of it out
1163 2011-08-03 16:10:38 <RealSolid> bluematt: the other thing that sucks about linux is the library hell
1164 2011-08-03 16:11:04 <xelister> BlueMatt: want to bet there exist actuall linux distros (say for over 1 year) that do not have GTK packed (normally/in main default enabled repository of distro's packets or code)? say... 1 btc
1165 2011-08-03 16:11:06 <RealSolid> though this can be avoided by developers if they code like i do, but most dont
1166 2011-08-03 16:11:12 <RealSolid> because they want to use gtk, qt, etc
1167 2011-08-03 16:11:13 <BlueMatt> yes, lets all go to windows and have every application static link in its copy of every library
1168 2011-08-03 16:11:34 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1169 2011-08-03 16:11:34 <RealSolid> bluematt: yah lets all go to linux so we can recompile gtk to the right version for one app :P
1170 2011-08-03 16:11:47 <xelister> btw not linking the libs can suck too... if the lib had exploit and your version didnt
1171 2011-08-03 16:11:48 <BlueMatt> if your app cant use the built-in version, its not a sane app
1172 2011-08-03 16:12:08 <RealSolid> bluematt: lawl, so many linux apps have complicated instructions to use
1173 2011-08-03 16:12:10 <RealSolid> like codeblocks
1174 2011-08-03 16:12:12 b4epoche_ has joined
1175 2011-08-03 16:12:19 <BlueMatt> have you ever seen a package manager?
1176 2011-08-03 16:12:22 <RealSolid> conversely the windows instructions are like "run setup.exe"
1177 2011-08-03 16:12:35 <xelister> BlueMatt: I know application that can not use built-in versions of popular ( > 100,000 users) distro, and the app is popular (> 50,000 downloads). Want to bet 1 btc?
1178 2011-08-03 16:12:43 <RealSolid> until you can solve these issues you wont get as many users on linux
1179 2011-08-03 16:12:51 <xelister> BlueMatt: will you put 1 btc where your mouth =)
1180 2011-08-03 16:12:58 <BlueMatt> sudo apt-get install firefox vs go to mozilla.com, click download, click "I know its a security vuln" 2 times, run setup, reboot, then use firefox
1181 2011-08-03 16:13:01 <RealSolid> bluematt: sure ,but they often dont have latest version
1182 2011-08-03 16:13:01 <BlueMatt> somewhat different there
1183 2011-08-03 16:13:18 <xelister> BlueMatt: will you put 1 btc where your mouth is >_>
1184 2011-08-03 16:13:22 <BlueMatt> but they do check for sec vulns
1185 2011-08-03 16:13:30 <BlueMatt> xelister: hmmm...bitocin?
1186 2011-08-03 16:13:45 <BlueMatt> oh wait, it actually can
1187 2011-08-03 16:13:54 <xelister> yea bitcoin
1188 2011-08-03 16:13:55 <xelister> =)
1189 2011-08-03 16:14:02 <BlueMatt> in what distro is it broken?
1190 2011-08-03 16:14:07 <xelister> ubuntu?
1191 2011-08-03 16:14:11 <xelister> wx2.9
1192 2011-08-03 16:14:24 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1193 2011-08-03 16:14:26 <jtaylor> whats is actually the rational on btc using wx2.9? the gui does not look like it needs bleeding edge :/
1194 2011-08-03 16:14:26 <BlueMatt> so if you go to bitcoin.org, click download and run it, it wont work on ubuntu?
1195 2011-08-03 16:14:28 <RealSolid> bluematt: not enough gtk? :P
1196 2011-08-03 16:14:31 <BlueMatt> I think you are mistaken
1197 2011-08-03 16:14:33 <RealSolid> haha
1198 2011-08-03 16:14:52 <xelister> BlueMatt: yeap it will not run unless its static linked
1199 2011-08-03 16:14:55 <BlueMatt> jtaylor: something to do with utf string conversion, but its really worthless...
1200 2011-08-03 16:15:12 <jtaylor> no other nn-development library can do that?
1201 2011-08-03 16:15:18 <jtaylor> s/nn/non/
1202 2011-08-03 16:15:20 nhodges has joined
1203 2011-08-03 16:15:22 <xelister> wx sucked an tytanick cock about unicode
1204 2011-08-03 16:15:30 <xelister> boy, why everyone wants my cock this days.
1205 2011-08-03 16:15:33 <BlueMatt> no, its really quite easy to port bitcoin back to wx2.8
1206 2011-08-03 16:15:37 b4epoche_ has joined
1207 2011-08-03 16:15:41 Kobier has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1208 2011-08-03 16:15:49 <RealSolid> xelister: thats because OS handle unicode differently and wxwidget was built from UTF16 knowledge i believe
1209 2011-08-03 16:16:07 <RealSolid> any smart GUI will be UTF-8 these days and upconvert when necessary
1210 2011-08-03 16:16:20 <BlueMatt> wx doesnt count as a "smart GUI"
1211 2011-08-03 16:16:23 eastender has joined
1212 2011-08-03 16:16:25 <RealSolid> indeed
1213 2011-08-03 16:16:34 <BlueMatt> which is kinda why almost no one uses it
1214 2011-08-03 16:16:39 <BlueMatt> ...except for some reason satoshi
1215 2011-08-03 16:16:41 <erus`> all gui should be html + css with a webserver backend
1216 2011-08-03 16:16:43 <xelister> :(
1217 2011-08-03 16:16:45 <erus`> *ducks*
1218 2011-08-03 16:16:46 <RealSolid> lawl
1219 2011-08-03 16:16:54 * xelister poverizes erus` with his tytanic cock
1220 2011-08-03 16:17:02 <RealSolid> bluematt: yeah except on windoze, no one has Qt by default
1221 2011-08-03 16:17:09 <RealSolid> so youre stuck sending some 5MB binary otherwise
1222 2011-08-03 16:17:14 * BlueMatt thinks xelister needs to seriously stfu about his cock
1223 2011-08-03 16:17:17 lesh has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1224 2011-08-03 16:17:23 <BlueMatt> you have to do that with any windows app
1225 2011-08-03 16:17:25 Shuro has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1226 2011-08-03 16:17:26 BurtyB has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1227 2011-08-03 16:17:35 <RealSolid> bluematt: wxwidgets doesnt need to as much since it relies on windows api
1228 2011-08-03 16:17:37 <erus`> titanic*
1229 2011-08-03 16:17:47 blishchrot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1230 2011-08-03 16:17:49 <RealSolid> its dll is a lot smaller
1231 2011-08-03 16:17:49 <BlueMatt> you still have to link wx
1232 2011-08-03 16:17:52 <RealSolid> i believe
1233 2011-08-03 16:17:55 MagicalTux has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1234 2011-08-03 16:18:03 <RealSolid> i havent checked in a while but it should be
1235 2011-08-03 16:18:15 <BlueMatt> binary size really doesnt matter much, it doesnt make a perf diff
1236 2011-08-03 16:18:25 chinaskibit has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1237 2011-08-03 16:18:27 <RealSolid> does in download size
1238 2011-08-03 16:18:31 zyb has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1239 2011-08-03 16:18:36 <BlueMatt> its really a question of, well on windows I end up with 2000 copies of openssl linked in various places, whereas in linux, its in one
1240 2011-08-03 16:18:38 <RealSolid> your QT app on windows is going to be +5MB whatever you do
1241 2011-08-03 16:18:49 <BlueMatt> and half of them are old with security vulns
1242 2011-08-03 16:18:50 <RealSolid> whereas a straight win32 app wont have that
1243 2011-08-03 16:19:02 blishchrot has joined
1244 2011-08-03 16:19:02 <BlueMatt> oh noes 5mb, whatever shall we do
1245 2011-08-03 16:19:16 <RealSolid> it all adds u
1246 2011-08-03 16:19:17 <RealSolid> up
1247 2011-08-03 16:19:24 zyb has joined
1248 2011-08-03 16:19:26 <BlueMatt> yes, that is why you dont use windows
1249 2011-08-03 16:19:28 <RealSolid> as if you want some 400K bitcoin client to be 5400K instead
1250 2011-08-03 16:19:48 <RealSolid> look at utorrents success
1251 2011-08-03 16:19:51 <BlueMatt> that is the principal behind linux shipping libs
1252 2011-08-03 16:19:57 <RealSolid> small and feature packed = win
1253 2011-08-03 16:19:57 blomqvist has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1254 2011-08-03 16:20:04 <BlueMatt> (up until 3.0)
1255 2011-08-03 16:20:16 <RealSolid> theres no issue with linux shipping libs
1256 2011-08-03 16:20:18 <BlueMatt> thats why I like transmission
1257 2011-08-03 16:20:19 <RealSolid> the issue is no standardization
1258 2011-08-03 16:20:24 <BlueMatt> what?
1259 2011-08-03 16:20:29 <RealSolid> i cant rely on nearly ANYTHING being on a linux distru
1260 2011-08-03 16:20:32 chinaskibit has joined
1261 2011-08-03 16:20:36 <BlueMatt> uhhh...yea you can
1262 2011-08-03 16:20:41 <RealSolid> example
1263 2011-08-03 16:20:59 <jtaylor> linux standard base?
1264 2011-08-03 16:21:04 zz_MT`AwAy has joined
1265 2011-08-03 16:21:04 <BlueMatt> any reasonable linux distro will have a copy of every package known to man that is somewhat stable and is old enough in its repos
1266 2011-08-03 16:21:19 <RealSolid> i like how you add "reasonable"
1267 2011-08-03 16:21:19 <jtaylor> BlueMatt: no
1268 2011-08-03 16:21:20 mblomqvist has joined
1269 2011-08-03 16:21:28 <jtaylor> just compare the packages of fedora and debian, huge difference
1270 2011-08-03 16:21:30 <RealSolid> many people arent reasonable and expect your app to run on their distro
1271 2011-08-03 16:21:35 <jtaylor> fedora not reasonable?
1272 2011-08-03 16:21:40 <BlueMatt> difference in versioning, yes
1273 2011-08-03 16:22:01 <BlueMatt> difference in actual packages, not really
1274 2011-08-03 16:22:02 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1275 2011-08-03 16:22:06 <RealSolid> so code for support of multiple versions of libs?
1276 2011-08-03 16:22:09 zz_MT`AwAy is now known as MT`AwAy
1277 2011-08-03 16:22:12 <BlueMatt> (aside from like openssl patent stuff and whatnot)
1278 2011-08-03 16:22:14 <RealSolid> lowest common denominator?
1279 2011-08-03 16:22:20 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1280 2011-08-03 16:22:21 <BlueMatt> thats what you have to do with windows
1281 2011-08-03 16:22:23 <RealSolid> its a head ache
1282 2011-08-03 16:22:25 <BlueMatt> you still have to support xp
1283 2011-08-03 16:22:36 <BlueMatt> and a lot has changed since
1284 2011-08-03 16:22:37 <RealSolid> theres almost nothing you need to do to run on xp thats different
1285 2011-08-03 16:22:37 <jtaylor> RealSolid: thats pretty much it :/
1286 2011-08-03 16:22:44 <jtaylor> look at the systemd debate on the debian mailing list
1287 2011-08-03 16:22:48 <RealSolid> unless youre some system app
1288 2011-08-03 16:22:55 <jtaylor> some 30 freebsd users wil probably block adoption
1289 2011-08-03 16:23:01 <RealSolid> thats the beauty of windows, standardization
1290 2011-08-03 16:23:05 <BlueMatt> fuck freebsd
1291 2011-08-03 16:23:06 MT`AwAy is now known as MagicalTux
1292 2011-08-03 16:23:06 b4epoche_ has joined
1293 2011-08-03 16:23:07 <RealSolid> i can rely on X being on Y
1294 2011-08-03 16:23:09 <BlueMatt> hahahaha
1295 2011-08-03 16:23:09 MagicalTux has quit (Changing host)
1296 2011-08-03 16:23:09 MagicalTux has joined
1297 2011-08-03 16:23:15 <BlueMatt> no, you really cant
1298 2011-08-03 16:23:21 <RealSolid> on linux its way too open, my linux port static links EVERYTHING
1299 2011-08-03 16:23:30 <BlueMatt> hahaha
1300 2011-08-03 16:23:30 <RealSolid> because i cant trust any distro, and it works on every distro
1301 2011-08-03 16:23:35 <BlueMatt> wow you really dont get it do you?
1302 2011-08-03 16:23:44 Shuro has joined
1303 2011-08-03 16:23:53 Backburn has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1304 2011-08-03 16:23:57 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1305 2011-08-03 16:23:58 <RealSolid> how many windows apps have you made bluematt
1306 2011-08-03 16:24:08 <RealSolid> ive sold about 14
1307 2011-08-03 16:24:14 <BlueMatt> ...and?
1308 2011-08-03 16:24:24 <RealSolid> so i probably know more about developing on windows than you
1309 2011-08-03 16:24:41 devrandom has joined
1310 2011-08-03 16:24:44 <luke-jr> RealSolid: Windows is obsolete. Get over it.
1311 2011-08-03 16:24:55 <luke-jr> writing software for Windows is idiotic
1312 2011-08-03 16:24:57 <BlueMatt> I dont care how much you know or claim to know, you are used to writing for one platform, which is great, and when you port to another you dont get how things are done and you complain about it
1313 2011-08-03 16:25:10 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1314 2011-08-03 16:25:20 <RealSolid> bluematt: i know how things are done, they are done poorly on linux because you have to code for many more variables
1315 2011-08-03 16:25:28 <RealSolid> otherwise i wouldnt have linux apps either :P
1316 2011-08-03 16:25:30 <luke-jr> Windows support is a second-hand feature
1317 2011-08-03 16:25:48 <dooglus> luke-jr: obsolete: n. no longer in use or no longer useful
1318 2011-08-03 16:25:50 b4epoche_ has joined
1319 2011-08-03 16:25:52 <luke-jr> RealSolid: that's because Linux isn't an OS
1320 2011-08-03 16:26:04 <luke-jr> RealSolid: exactly. it's not useful, and nobody much uses it
1321 2011-08-03 16:26:09 <luke-jr> dooglus*
1322 2011-08-03 16:26:20 <BlueMatt> if you want to code for linux, code for not the most recent, but a version back libs and it will work everywhere, static link and you just look like another windows-coder who doesnt get the first thing about linux
1323 2011-08-03 16:26:23 <dooglus> luke-jr: nobody uses Windows?
1324 2011-08-03 16:26:26 <jtaylor> just 98% of computer users
1325 2011-08-03 16:26:27 <luke-jr> the rare instances tend to be "gaming rigs"
1326 2011-08-03 16:26:30 <luke-jr> that's not real use
1327 2011-08-03 16:26:30 <jtaylor> not even 100% so nothing
1328 2011-08-03 16:26:43 <RealSolid> bluematt: yeah except my linux intstructions are "unzip and run"
1329 2011-08-03 16:26:54 <luke-jr> RealSolid: fail
1330 2011-08-03 16:26:59 <RealSolid> instead of "1. make sure wx widgets is 2.9.  2. ensure freetype is 2.3.5"
1331 2011-08-03 16:27:04 <BlueMatt> no one on linux installs apps that way
1332 2011-08-03 16:27:10 <luke-jr> most Linux-based OS are designed properly
1333 2011-08-03 16:27:11 BuiZe has joined
1334 2011-08-03 16:27:14 <BlueMatt> when I see an application like that I just facepalm
1335 2011-08-03 16:27:15 <luke-jr> they have package managers
1336 2011-08-03 16:27:20 <RealSolid> right everything is on package managers
1337 2011-08-03 16:28:18 <BlueMatt> you are clearly a windows developer by trade, great so stick to windows and dont bitch when you see linux and arent used to how things are done
1338 2011-08-03 16:28:35 <imsaguy2> lol
1339 2011-08-03 16:28:35 <RealSolid> why cant i bitch
1340 2011-08-03 16:28:44 <luke-jr> RealSolid: because you don't live in the real world
1341 2011-08-03 16:29:01 <RealSolid> the real world being one where desktop linux is majority share or something?
1342 2011-08-03 16:29:35 <RealSolid> do you work as a programmer bluematt?
1343 2011-08-03 16:29:48 <gjs278> macs are truly the os where can "zip the program and install" but they don't have a majority share
1344 2011-08-03 16:30:00 <gjs278> so I guess they are trash and and the zip program and install method is garbage
1345 2011-08-03 16:30:09 Speeder has joined
1346 2011-08-03 16:30:26 <BlueMatt> Im sorry your only experience with linux is porting an app to it, I really am, but that by no means linux sucks
1347 2011-08-03 16:30:33 <luke-jr> gjs278: Macs don't even have install usually
1348 2011-08-03 16:30:37 <BlueMatt> porting an app is always hard and makes the os you arre porting to look terrible
1349 2011-08-03 16:30:42 <luke-jr> gjs278: and almost never have any way to uninstall
1350 2011-08-03 16:30:44 <gjs278> yeah they just run the dmg
1351 2011-08-03 16:30:50 <gjs278> yeah it's stupid
1352 2011-08-03 16:30:51 <RealSolid> bluematt: my app i ported recently has almost no windows code in it
1353 2011-08-03 16:30:57 <gjs278> but it matches his "method"
1354 2011-08-03 16:31:01 <RealSolid> about 300 lines of windows code
1355 2011-08-03 16:31:05 <gjs278> lol
1356 2011-08-03 16:31:07 <gjs278> only 300 lines
1357 2011-08-03 16:31:09 redhatzero has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1358 2011-08-03 16:31:10 <gjs278> are you kidding me
1359 2011-08-03 16:31:13 <gjs278> for what function
1360 2011-08-03 16:31:20 <gjs278> did you write to the registry?
1361 2011-08-03 16:31:21 <luke-jr> RealSolid: then it's a Qt program
1362 2011-08-03 16:31:28 <RealSolid> creating a window, setting up opengl and directsound/wasapi
1363 2011-08-03 16:31:31 <luke-jr> or non-graphical
1364 2011-08-03 16:31:33 <gjs278> lol
1365 2011-08-03 16:31:36 <RealSolid> no its my own gui
1366 2011-08-03 16:31:39 <luke-jr> …
1367 2011-08-03 16:31:45 <luke-jr> ok, that's worse than all of the above
1368 2011-08-03 16:31:48 <gjs278> the whole point of opengl is to be cross platform and *not* rely on windows code
1369 2011-08-03 16:32:01 <imsaguy2> whats the point of all of this  (other than bitching)? Its the same old left vs right debate thats been going on forever and neither side's gonna convince the other
1370 2011-08-03 16:32:04 <luke-jr> gjs278: and it's for 3D stuff, not for inventing your own toolkit :P
1371 2011-08-03 16:32:04 <RealSolid> it doesnt rely on windows code, but you need some windows code to initialize opengl on windows
1372 2011-08-03 16:32:07 <imsaguy2> so whats the point in arguing?
1373 2011-08-03 16:32:33 <gjs278> imsaguy2 one day I would argue with one of you "there's no point in arguing people" but you guys never want to do it
1374 2011-08-03 16:32:34 <BlueMatt> imsaguy2: but someone is wrong on the internet
1375 2011-08-03 16:32:48 <imsaguy2> lol gjs278
1376 2011-08-03 16:32:56 <lianj> luke-jr: not true :P
1377 2011-08-03 16:33:03 <imsaguy2> I'd argue that both systems have their positives
1378 2011-08-03 16:33:04 <xelister> someone is wrong???
1379 2011-08-03 16:33:06 <xelister> IN MY INTERNET?
1380 2011-08-03 16:33:07 <luke-jr> lianj: yes it is
1381 2011-08-03 16:33:19 <imsaguy2> BlueMatt, the internet is full of experts
1382 2011-08-03 16:33:35 <luke-jr> Windows users are not experts
1383 2011-08-03 16:33:45 <lianj> luke-jr: tell that clutter
1384 2011-08-03 16:33:50 <BlueMatt> imsaguy2: hehe
1385 2011-08-03 16:33:55 <luke-jr> lianj: who?
1386 2011-08-03 16:34:10 <imsaguy2> can we fight about bitcoin features instead?
1387 2011-08-03 16:34:16 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1388 2011-08-03 16:34:17 <imsaguy2> that's much more fun
1389 2011-08-03 16:34:26 <lianj> luke-jr: http://www.clutter-project.org/
1390 2011-08-03 16:34:26 <gjs278> what if people start porting in windows only code to bitcoin
1391 2011-08-03 16:34:32 <gjs278> because we never bother to argue if it is acceptable or not
1392 2011-08-03 16:34:43 <luke-jr> ok. Bitcoin clients should charge a fee and automatically send their authors 0.0005 BTC every week they're used
1393 2011-08-03 16:34:50 <gjs278> and then nobody wants to tell the developer to stop doing that because LIVE AND LET LIVE lOL
1394 2011-08-03 16:34:52 <sacarlson> imsaguy2 what feature do you want?
1395 2011-08-03 16:34:52 <imsaguy2> luke-jr: ghey
1396 2011-08-03 16:35:11 <luke-jr> lol
1397 2011-08-03 16:35:14 glassresistor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1398 2011-08-03 16:35:14 mblomqvist is now known as blomqvist
1399 2011-08-03 16:35:18 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1400 2011-08-03 16:35:35 glassresistor has joined
1401 2011-08-03 16:35:35 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
1402 2011-08-03 16:35:35 glassresistor has joined
1403 2011-08-03 16:35:56 <imsaguy2> does namecoin allow a person to send coins to a person in the form imsaguy.domain.com?
1404 2011-08-03 16:36:29 <luke-jr> that would be ironic
1405 2011-08-03 16:36:40 <gjs278> damn $11 coins
1406 2011-08-03 16:36:51 <imsaguy2> I don't seen the irony, please explain :)
1407 2011-08-03 16:36:54 <luke-jr> gjs278: hoping they fall a bit more so I can buy cheap
1408 2011-08-03 16:37:01 <imsaguy2> me too
1409 2011-08-03 16:37:10 <gjs278> I am holding onto 60 of them at the moment
1410 2011-08-03 16:37:10 <imsaguy2> buy a shitton
1411 2011-08-03 16:37:11 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: the point of namecoin is to kill .com
1412 2011-08-03 16:37:15 lesh has joined
1413 2011-08-03 16:37:17 <imsaguy2> gotcha
1414 2011-08-03 16:37:27 b4epoche_ has joined
1415 2011-08-03 16:37:38 <imsaguy2> I think allowing anyone and their brother to start a tld is gonna kill .com
1416 2011-08-03 16:38:25 <luke-jr> I think namecoin is dumb
1417 2011-08-03 16:38:28 Darnoth has joined
1418 2011-08-03 16:38:39 <sacarlson> any miners ready to test merge mining?  multicoin-exp is ready to test with beerA
1419 2011-08-03 16:38:41 <imsaguy2> I concur
1420 2011-08-03 16:39:05 <luke-jr> sacarlson: Eligius maybe
1421 2011-08-03 16:39:20 <luke-jr> sacarlson: especially if you'll buy beerA coins with BTC from us
1422 2011-08-03 16:39:26 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVM•AVTEM•CENSEO•CVTTENBERC•ESSE•DELENDVM)
1423 2011-08-03 16:39:42 wolfspraul has joined
1424 2011-08-03 16:40:42 Kobier has joined
1425 2011-08-03 16:40:51 <sacarlson> luke-jr beerA only pays .0001 per block mined but also pays transaction fee's
1426 2011-08-03 16:41:17 <luke-jr> sacarlson: shrug. the key thing is that I can exchange them for BTC :P
1427 2011-08-03 16:41:31 <sacarlson> pay's in beer that is presently selling for 1 BTC = 14 beer last I looked
1428 2011-08-03 16:41:45 <luke-jr> …
1429 2011-08-03 16:42:12 <sacarlson> at the central exchange
1430 2011-08-03 16:43:15 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1431 2011-08-03 16:44:01 <sacarlson> at block count 50000 the plan is to raise the mining subsidy to .001 beer
1432 2011-08-03 16:44:21 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1433 2011-08-03 16:44:43 wolfspraul has joined
1434 2011-08-03 16:46:32 <imsaguy2> hey
1435 2011-08-03 16:46:35 <imsaguy2> down to 10.50
1436 2011-08-03 16:46:39 <imsaguy2> almost time to buy my shitton
1437 2011-08-03 16:47:23 <luke-jr> let me know before you do
1438 2011-08-03 16:47:39 <luke-jr> ;;bc,calcd 308000 503
1439 2011-08-03 16:47:39 <gribble> The average time to generate a block at 308000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 503, is 1 hour, 56 minutes, and 54 seconds
1440 2011-08-03 16:47:41 <imsaguy2> why?
1441 2011-08-03 16:47:46 <imsaguy2> so you can beat me to the punch
1442 2011-08-03 16:47:49 <luke-jr> imsaguy2: yeah
1443 2011-08-03 16:47:51 <imsaguy2> ;)
1444 2011-08-03 16:48:04 <imsaguy2> wel, it will be before they hit $1.00
1445 2011-08-03 16:48:04 <luke-jr> is there an easy way to get bitcoind to run at diff 1?
1446 2011-08-03 16:48:26 b4epoche_ has joined
1447 2011-08-03 16:49:06 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1448 2011-08-03 16:49:21 devrandom has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1449 2011-08-03 16:49:53 hrngfd has joined
1450 2011-08-03 16:51:40 macuser has joined
1451 2011-08-03 16:51:52 b4epoche_ has joined
1452 2011-08-03 16:52:42 <sacarlson> luke-jr: I run bitcoind at diff .125 is that small enuf?
1453 2011-08-03 16:52:56 <sacarlson> I also have nets at .05
1454 2011-08-03 16:53:00 nr9 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1455 2011-08-03 16:54:11 mmoya has joined
1456 2011-08-03 16:55:04 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1457 2011-08-03 16:55:12 <macuser> hey all
1458 2011-08-03 16:55:34 mosi has joined
1459 2011-08-03 16:56:56 b4epoche_ has joined
1460 2011-08-03 16:59:40 macuser has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1461 2011-08-03 16:59:41 GMP has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1462 2011-08-03 16:59:58 MagicalTux has quit (Quit: Bye, see you later!)
1463 2011-08-03 17:00:04 MagicalTux has joined
1464 2011-08-03 17:00:08 MagicalTux has quit (Changing host)
1465 2011-08-03 17:00:08 MagicalTux has joined
1466 2011-08-03 17:00:58 blishchrot has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1467 2011-08-03 17:02:07 eian has joined
1468 2011-08-03 17:02:16 jeremias has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1469 2011-08-03 17:02:18 blishchrot has joined
1470 2011-08-03 17:02:23 jeremias has joined
1471 2011-08-03 17:02:33 theymos has joined
1472 2011-08-03 17:06:04 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1473 2011-08-03 17:06:17 erle- has joined
1474 2011-08-03 17:07:30 devrandom has joined
1475 2011-08-03 17:07:44 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1476 2011-08-03 17:10:59 b4epoche_ has joined
1477 2011-08-03 17:11:22 maqr has joined
1478 2011-08-03 17:13:01 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1479 2011-08-03 17:13:39 nr9 has joined
1480 2011-08-03 17:13:43 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1481 2011-08-03 17:15:51 b4epoche_ has joined
1482 2011-08-03 17:16:17 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1483 2011-08-03 17:16:32 codler has joined
1484 2011-08-03 17:16:42 nr9 has quit (Client Quit)
1485 2011-08-03 17:16:51 nr9 has joined
1486 2011-08-03 17:17:20 nr9 has quit (Client Quit)
1487 2011-08-03 17:19:32 b4epoche_ has joined
1488 2011-08-03 17:19:55 Mad7Scientist is now known as WOW_CRASHING
1489 2011-08-03 17:20:15 zeropointo has joined
1490 2011-08-03 17:20:17 WOW_CRASHING is now known as Mad7Scientist
1491 2011-08-03 17:20:18 SISUbtcX has quit (Quit: SISUbtcX)
1492 2011-08-03 17:23:00 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1493 2011-08-03 17:23:05 ThomasV has joined
1494 2011-08-03 17:23:14 sgstair has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1495 2011-08-03 17:23:40 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1496 2011-08-03 17:23:45 sgstair has joined
1497 2011-08-03 17:24:24 b4epoche_ has joined
1498 2011-08-03 17:25:33 hrngfd has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1499 2011-08-03 17:27:28 Speeder has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1500 2011-08-03 17:32:35 BlueMattBot has joined
1501 2011-08-03 17:33:31 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1502 2011-08-03 17:40:27 Dirus has joined
1503 2011-08-03 17:40:27 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1504 2011-08-03 17:40:53 <Dirus> anyone have more info on the defcon thing?
1505 2011-08-03 17:41:16 <sacarlson> Dirus: defcon about what?
1506 2011-08-03 17:42:35 <Dirus> sorry, I mean Black Hat
1507 2011-08-03 17:42:39 b4epoche_ has joined
1508 2011-08-03 17:44:26 <sacarlson> Dirus: what? some new weakness in bitcoin?
1509 2011-08-03 17:45:14 <theymos> The "exploit" that I've heard of wasn't an exploit at all. Though maybe something else has been announced.
1510 2011-08-03 17:46:43 karnac has joined
1511 2011-08-03 17:47:31 The_SLain_MAn has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1512 2011-08-03 17:49:12 <Dirus> I don't have any specifics of what will be released today, other than it's in the same vein as the user transaction stuff released previously
1513 2011-08-03 17:49:40 <Dirus> I thought maybe someone had heard something else, with the run on the market and all
1514 2011-08-03 17:50:17 <Optimo_> it's really not a high volume thing happening today
1515 2011-08-03 17:50:25 <Optimo_> but it's a long way back to 12/14
1516 2011-08-03 17:50:30 <xelister> PETITION TO ROLLBACK BITCOINS to 2011-07-20 !!!!  make this send to lost bitomat.pl and mybitcoin.com invalid
1517 2011-08-03 17:51:10 <xelister> + if (bock->age > date("2011-07-20")) return INVALID_BLOCK
1518 2011-08-03 17:51:20 <xelister> && < 2011_08_04
1519 2011-08-03 17:51:20 <gribble> Error: "&" is not a valid command.
1520 2011-08-03 17:52:30 <sacarlson> xelister: I saw you asking about gui for ubuntu the bitcoin-qt gui works in ubuntu and so does multicoin-qt
1521 2011-08-03 17:52:32 <theymos> I don't think the Defcon presentation will discover anything serious.
1522 2011-08-03 17:53:19 <Dirus> seriously?
1523 2011-08-03 17:53:41 <Dirus> that was directed at xelister
1524 2011-08-03 17:54:39 DukeOfURL has joined
1525 2011-08-03 17:55:50 Zagitta has joined
1526 2011-08-03 17:55:52 <sacarlson> Dirus: most the problems I know of in bitcoin are website problems not connected to the protocol but can sometimes cause the same effect
1527 2011-08-03 17:57:14 <Zagitta> looks like people found out that bitcoins are pretty useless :3
1528 2011-08-03 17:57:22 <xelister> Dirus: nope
1529 2011-08-03 17:57:35 <xelister> sacarlson: hmm thanks.. I asked for that?
1530 2011-08-03 17:57:51 koleg has joined
1531 2011-08-03 17:57:55 <xelister> sacarlson: I ment that the wx widgets default gui is not working on ubuntu since dep on wx2.9
1532 2011-08-03 17:58:15 <sacarlson> xelister: yes I use ubuntu and that's why I like the qt versions
1533 2011-08-03 17:59:13 <sacarlson> xelister: I think the future will move to the qt version that is much better other than not as many languages yet
1534 2011-08-03 17:59:59 ssxls has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1535 2011-08-03 18:00:12 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1536 2011-08-03 18:00:21 bitMemory has joined
1537 2011-08-03 18:00:33 <sacarlson> shouldn't take too much effort to port the languages we now have in wx into qt
1538 2011-08-03 18:00:57 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1539 2011-08-03 18:01:02 Optimo_ is now known as Optimo
1540 2011-08-03 18:01:42 <bitMemory> wth there is no user friendly backup wizard in the bitcoin client? ... making it user friendly would allow novice users to use bitcoin
1541 2011-08-03 18:02:18 <Eliel> yep, would do wonders to have even a menuentry labeled "backup wallet" that opens a save file dialog so the user can say where yo save
1542 2011-08-03 18:02:48 <bitMemory> average person cannot understand bitcoin theory .. making a userfriendly client would boost user base
1543 2011-08-03 18:02:54 ssxls has joined
1544 2011-08-03 18:02:58 citiz3n has joined
1545 2011-08-03 18:03:08 <wumpus> Eliel: yes
1546 2011-08-03 18:03:14 <jrmithdobbs> bitMemory: get to it
1547 2011-08-03 18:03:21 <bitMemory> is there a new version being developed?
1548 2011-08-03 18:03:28 <sacarlson> bitMemory: if users want it that easy why not auto backup
1549 2011-08-03 18:04:01 <bitMemory> auto backup is also good
1550 2011-08-03 18:04:10 <sacarlson> bitMemory: there are branches of bitcoin-qt and multicoin-qt and others
1551 2011-08-03 18:04:18 <forrestv> you can't backup without user intervention ...
1552 2011-08-03 18:04:37 <forrestv> unless you just automatically copy an encrypted wallet.dat onto all inserted media
1553 2011-08-03 18:04:45 <bitMemory> ya user should have options available with him
1554 2011-08-03 18:04:49 <sacarlson> forrestv: they do it for me auto in microsoft word and in openoffice
1555 2011-08-03 18:05:13 <Evious> MS Word eats documents for dinner.
1556 2011-08-03 18:05:30 <forrestv> those 'backups' protect against user error and the program crashing
1557 2011-08-03 18:05:41 <bitMemory> but user should be asked minimal things to do it ... average guy would get lost with all the jargon and might not understand the process
1558 2011-08-03 18:05:48 <sacarlson> Evious: well I never had a problem in openoffice that auto backs up
1559 2011-08-03 18:06:03 <forrestv> bitcoin doesn't let the user mess up the wallet.dat with normal use and rarely corrupts it, so the point of a backup is to avoid losses due to hardware error
1560 2011-08-03 18:06:10 <xelister> 0.00 BTC - TICKER IS SEGFAULTING
1561 2011-08-03 18:06:38 <sacarlson> bitMemory: ya so complicated put address in and money to be sent push send.  that might be hard for some
1562 2011-08-03 18:06:58 <bitMemory> hardware error can be critical, while harddrives are reliable, one cannot consider it 100%safe
1563 2011-08-03 18:06:59 BlueMatt has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1564 2011-08-03 18:07:20 <xelister> bitcoin is going!!! SEUY SEUY SEUY!
1565 2011-08-03 18:07:44 <sacarlson> bitMemory: no in this case the real value is located localy so care must be taken
1566 2011-08-03 18:08:01 <bitMemory> thats what i am saying
1567 2011-08-03 18:09:15 <sacarlson> bitMemory: well there is a cool patch I like that I hope to incorporate into multicoin with export private key that might do what you want
1568 2011-08-03 18:09:48 <sacarlson> bitMemory: it's already high on the priority list
1569 2011-08-03 18:09:57 <wumpus> I'd really like the option to export private keys in a printable format, for most people, paper is safer than any digital storage they have
1570 2011-08-03 18:10:26 <sacarlson> wumpus: ya that could be done
1571 2011-08-03 18:10:29 theymos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1572 2011-08-03 18:10:37 <bitMemory> exporting private keys into a file is good option. it can also be like you maintain one single file and export multiple private keys from different clients into it to merge it
1573 2011-08-03 18:10:48 <sacarlson> long key like alot of leters to type but?
1574 2011-08-03 18:10:52 <wumpus> yeah I know it can be done :) though the OCR part is more challenging
1575 2011-08-03 18:11:00 <wumpus> maybe use QR codes
1576 2011-08-03 18:11:26 <wumpus> yeah ofc you can also type everything
1577 2011-08-03 18:11:32 <wumpus> but with >100 keys that's a bit sad
1578 2011-08-03 18:11:46 <bitMemory> ya with each key being super long
1579 2011-08-03 18:11:46 <luke-jr> holy crap bzip2: 13 GB to 103 MB
1580 2011-08-03 18:11:54 <sacarlson> bitMemory: Wallet and key import and export
1581 2011-08-03 18:11:55 <sacarlson> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/220
1582 2011-08-03 18:12:03 <wumpus> keys are not *that* long are they?
1583 2011-08-03 18:12:08 <bitMemory> ok
1584 2011-08-03 18:12:17 <wumpus> at least if you represent them as base58
1585 2011-08-03 18:12:27 koleg has joined
1586 2011-08-03 18:12:36 <jtaylor> luke-jr: try xz, its usually better than bzip2 (+faster)
1587 2011-08-03 18:12:45 <luke-jr> jtaylor: faster too?
1588 2011-08-03 18:13:01 BurtyB has joined
1589 2011-08-03 18:13:04 <sacarlson> wumpus: most they keys I see are in hex so not sure how much smaller they might get but over 2 lines
1590 2011-08-03 18:13:09 koleg has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1591 2011-08-03 18:13:22 <jtaylor> nzip2 is probably the slowest of the compression possibilities
1592 2011-08-03 18:13:26 <jtaylor> b
1593 2011-08-03 18:13:31 <luke-jr> sacarlson: 3.6 times smaller
1594 2011-08-03 18:13:54 <sacarlson> luke-jr: like I said never seen them
1595 2011-08-03 18:14:24 <wumpus> hm even with base58 they'd be +- 44 chars
1596 2011-08-03 18:14:41 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1597 2011-08-03 18:14:47 <sacarlson> what about that cool graphic barcode on paper for your key?
1598 2011-08-03 18:15:04 <wumpus> yes that's why I said QR codes
1599 2011-08-03 18:15:04 Go0dOk has joined
1600 2011-08-03 18:15:21 <wumpus> much easier to OCR too
1601 2011-08-03 18:15:35 <sacarlson> wumpus: I see support for qr code in some jave code
1602 2011-08-03 18:16:09 <sacarlson> wumpus: it seems setup to transact with portable phones
1603 2011-08-03 18:16:21 Go0dOk has left ()
1604 2011-08-03 18:16:26 <wumpus> well that'd allow for interesting things
1605 2011-08-03 18:16:48 <wumpus> like scanning the keys into your phone and using them with the portable client
1606 2011-08-03 18:17:04 TD has joined
1607 2011-08-03 18:17:11 <sacarlson> wumpus: I also see patches for some cool offline transactions that could use qr code
1608 2011-08-03 18:17:21 <wumpus> yep
1609 2011-08-03 18:17:38 b4epoche_ has joined
1610 2011-08-03 18:17:38 Lenovo01 has joined
1611 2011-08-03 18:17:54 Castor_ has joined
1612 2011-08-03 18:17:56 <wumpus> there's a lot possible, let's hope btc doesn't completely crashed, it's a lot of fun
1613 2011-08-03 18:18:27 <sacarlson> wumpus: well add the patches to multicoin and I'll incorporate them
1614 2011-08-03 18:18:45 Lenovo01 has left ()
1615 2011-08-03 18:19:11 bulletbill has joined
1616 2011-08-03 18:19:18 <sacarlson> wumpus: sorry we are self server we don't do everything for you
1617 2011-08-03 18:19:31 <wumpus> huh I'm not saying you have to do anything for me
1618 2011-08-03 18:19:36 <wumpus> just discussing some ideas :p
1619 2011-08-03 18:19:54 <sacarlson> wumpus: some have already been done just have to add the patches
1620 2011-08-03 18:20:31 <wumpus> ok
1621 2011-08-03 18:20:39 <sacarlson> wumpus: it's just a pick and choose
1622 2011-08-03 18:20:48 PEPSIman has joined
1623 2011-08-03 18:21:33 PEPSIman has left ()
1624 2011-08-03 18:26:52 kilimanjaro has joined
1625 2011-08-03 18:27:12 kilimanjaro has quit (Client Quit)
1626 2011-08-03 18:28:36 p0s has joined
1627 2011-08-03 18:29:11 Go0dOkFgf has joined
1628 2011-08-03 18:29:26 Go0dOkFgf has quit (Client Quit)
1629 2011-08-03 18:29:59 CounterStrike has joined
1630 2011-08-03 18:31:17 CounterStrike has quit (Client Quit)
1631 2011-08-03 18:31:48 theorbtwo has joined
1632 2011-08-03 18:31:49 CounterStrike has joined
1633 2011-08-03 18:33:34 CounterStrike has left ()
1634 2011-08-03 18:33:48 pumpkin has joined
1635 2011-08-03 18:36:19 BlueMatt has joined
1636 2011-08-03 18:36:33 ADMan2011 has joined
1637 2011-08-03 18:36:42 bulletbill has left ()
1638 2011-08-03 18:36:45 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1639 2011-08-03 18:42:40 ADMan2011 has left ()
1640 2011-08-03 18:44:54 <luke-jr> yay roller coaster
1641 2011-08-03 18:46:41 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVM•AVTEM•CENSEO•CVTTENBERC•ESSE•DELENDVM)
1642 2011-08-03 18:47:48 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1643 2011-08-03 18:47:53 bender32 has joined
1644 2011-08-03 18:49:09 b4epoche_ has joined
1645 2011-08-03 18:49:31 gasteve has joined
1646 2011-08-03 18:49:32 ewal-otg has joined
1647 2011-08-03 18:50:37 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin
1648 2011-08-03 18:51:08 mosi has joined
1649 2011-08-03 18:53:24 mosi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1650 2011-08-03 18:53:30 RazielZ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1651 2011-08-03 18:54:12 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1652 2011-08-03 18:55:17 RAM2012 has joined
1653 2011-08-03 18:56:10 bitMemory has left ()
1654 2011-08-03 18:57:19 b4epoche_ has joined
1655 2011-08-03 18:57:27 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1656 2011-08-03 18:58:05 b4epoche_ has joined
1657 2011-08-03 18:58:41 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1658 2011-08-03 18:59:46 b4epoche_ has joined
1659 2011-08-03 19:03:13 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1660 2011-08-03 19:03:28 denisx has joined
1661 2011-08-03 19:05:55 erle- has joined
1662 2011-08-03 19:06:43 zeropointo has quit (Quit: leaving)
1663 2011-08-03 19:06:50 b4epoche_ has joined
1664 2011-08-03 19:08:16 Jefff has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1665 2011-08-03 19:08:26 Jefff has joined
1666 2011-08-03 19:09:07 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1667 2011-08-03 19:09:47 eavab has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1668 2011-08-03 19:09:56 eavab has joined
1669 2011-08-03 19:10:22 TbbW has joined
1670 2011-08-03 19:12:20 lebish has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1671 2011-08-03 19:14:00 zeropointo has joined
1672 2011-08-03 19:19:40 WildSoil has quit ()
1673 2011-08-03 19:21:37 pumpkin has joined
1674 2011-08-03 19:23:09 Xunie has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1675 2011-08-03 19:23:58 SomeoneWeird has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1676 2011-08-03 19:24:04 copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1677 2011-08-03 19:26:39 localhost has joined
1678 2011-08-03 19:26:49 pumpkin is now known as copumpkin
1679 2011-08-03 19:27:52 ee1 has joined
1680 2011-08-03 19:29:50 lebish has joined
1681 2011-08-03 19:31:31 Herodes has joined
1682 2011-08-03 19:32:53 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1683 2011-08-03 19:38:14 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1684 2011-08-03 19:38:52 b4epoche_ has joined
1685 2011-08-03 19:39:16 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1686 2011-08-03 19:40:30 b4epoche_ has joined
1687 2011-08-03 19:40:43 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1688 2011-08-03 19:43:05 koleg has quit (2!kvirc@79.133.148.20|Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1689 2011-08-03 19:43:10 b4epoche_ has joined
1690 2011-08-03 19:44:10 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1691 2011-08-03 19:44:34 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1692 2011-08-03 19:44:53 wolfspraul has joined
1693 2011-08-03 19:48:54 b4epoche_ has joined
1694 2011-08-03 19:53:50 <xelister> who develops namecoin? same people as bitcoin?
1695 2011-08-03 19:54:08 <BlueMatt> no
1696 2011-08-03 19:54:10 JackStorm has quit (Quit: JackStorm)
1697 2011-08-03 19:54:44 Zagitta has quit ()
1698 2011-08-03 19:56:46 JackStorm has joined
1699 2011-08-03 19:57:01 <BlueMatt> damn kernel 3.0 takes almost 2x the power as 2.6.38
1700 2011-08-03 19:57:11 koleg has joined
1701 2011-08-03 19:58:13 maikmerten has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1702 2011-08-03 19:58:27 <luke-jr> Eliel: FYI, Eligius does not use/support noncerange yet; my recent tweaks are unrelated to that
1703 2011-08-03 19:58:40 TD has joined
1704 2011-08-03 19:59:48 SecretSJ has joined
1705 2011-08-03 20:01:28 HardDisk_WP has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1706 2011-08-03 20:03:59 Dirus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1707 2011-08-03 20:03:59 bliket_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1708 2011-08-03 20:04:04 <tcatm> short downtime for fixing tradehill data. needs database migration because they use more precise numbers (10 decimals instead of 8) than what the database layout supports
1709 2011-08-03 20:07:38 koleg has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1710 2011-08-03 20:07:40 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1711 2011-08-03 20:09:01 <makomk> BlueMatt: oh, not again... effing kernel developers.
1712 2011-08-03 20:09:41 denisx has joined
1713 2011-08-03 20:10:05 <BlueMatt> no idea, I literally disabled all devices in the bios just to compare evenly, and its like 2x
1714 2011-08-03 20:10:33 b4epoche_ has joined
1715 2011-08-03 20:10:35 <m03sizlak> hey, ive launched a HTML5 bitcoin blackjack site, check it out  http://bitjack21.com
1716 2011-08-03 20:11:29 [Tycho] has joined
1717 2011-08-03 20:11:36 <TD> m03sizlak: wrong channel. please stop spamming old threads with your link as well
1718 2011-08-03 20:11:50 <m03sizlak> old threads?
1719 2011-08-03 20:11:58 localhost has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1720 2011-08-03 20:12:53 HardDisk_WP has joined
1721 2011-08-03 20:12:53 HardDisk_WP has quit (Changing host)
1722 2011-08-03 20:12:53 HardDisk_WP has joined
1723 2011-08-03 20:14:29 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1724 2011-08-03 20:15:11 BGL has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1725 2011-08-03 20:21:15 BlueMatt has joined
1726 2011-08-03 20:22:06 JackStorm has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1727 2011-08-03 20:23:54 localhost has joined
1728 2011-08-03 20:23:55 <kinlo> is there a recent version of the getblockinfo patch that jeff Garzik made?
1729 2011-08-03 20:24:02 <kinlo> a patch that applies to 0.3.24?
1730 2011-08-03 20:24:09 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1731 2011-08-03 20:24:33 <kinlo> seems that his git branches are out of date
1732 2011-08-03 20:25:28 JackStorm has joined
1733 2011-08-03 20:26:53 abragin has quit ()
1734 2011-08-03 20:26:55 b4epoche_ has joined
1735 2011-08-03 20:27:25 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1736 2011-08-03 20:28:34 localhost has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1737 2011-08-03 20:29:39 mmoya has joined
1738 2011-08-03 20:29:51 b4epoche_ has joined
1739 2011-08-03 20:31:38 <mercora> hello all :) is there a "nice" way to load balance multiple bitcoind sharing the same database ?
1740 2011-08-03 20:32:00 mrb_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1741 2011-08-03 20:32:11 <BlueMatt> no
1742 2011-08-03 20:32:18 localhost has joined
1743 2011-08-03 20:33:18 <mercora> hmm that sounds clear :D
1744 2011-08-03 20:33:31 mrb_ has joined
1745 2011-08-03 20:34:16 <BlueMatt> theres not a way to share the same wallet on two instances
1746 2011-08-03 20:35:29 localhost has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1747 2011-08-03 20:36:21 <mercora> is this really impossible because for example a limitation in berkley db ? or asked otherwise would it be hard to implement another database backend like postgresql to share the data ?
1748 2011-08-03 20:37:13 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1749 2011-08-03 20:37:21 <nanotube> mercora: well, it should be possible to implement... that said i don't think that much db abstraction has been done, so you'll have to do all the legwork.
1750 2011-08-03 20:38:55 linuxnub has joined
1751 2011-08-03 20:39:03 Ycros has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1752 2011-08-03 20:39:21 <mercora> ok than i will look into it :) thanks
1753 2011-08-03 20:39:35 b4epoche_ has joined
1754 2011-08-03 20:39:43 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1755 2011-08-03 20:39:54 <linuxnub> Can someone help a nub? In linux I added a new user. When I log in with SSH I can weird text, not the last command. The original ubuntu user I log in, and the up arrow still gives me the last command. What do I need to add for my new user?
1756 2011-08-03 20:40:01 <luke-jr> who has admin on the forum again?
1757 2011-08-03 20:40:13 <luke-jr> linuxnub: wtf does this have to do with bitcoin?
1758 2011-08-03 20:40:36 <linuxnub> I'm hitting ./bitcoind getinfo and i don't want to type it each time i want to scroll up
1759 2011-08-03 20:40:57 <jrmithdobbs> your question doesn't make any sense
1760 2011-08-03 20:40:58 <jrmithdobbs> go away
1761 2011-08-03 20:41:22 <linuxnub> ^[[A
1762 2011-08-03 20:41:31 <linuxnub> That's what I get instead of my last command, how does that not make sense?
1763 2011-08-03 20:41:38 b4epoche_ has joined
1764 2011-08-03 20:41:52 <luke-jr> linuxnub: sounds like a problem wiht your SSH client
1765 2011-08-03 20:42:18 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1766 2011-08-03 20:42:33 <linuxnub> Using the same SSH client and all I do is log in with the other user that I didn't create, and it works fine. You guys must not have a lot of experience with linux. Thought you might, I'll head elswhere
1767 2011-08-03 20:45:01 Ycros has joined
1768 2011-08-03 20:46:30 eZP-[i] has joined
1769 2011-08-03 20:47:44 karnac has joined
1770 2011-08-03 20:48:23 Ycros has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1771 2011-08-03 20:49:21 b4epoche_ has joined
1772 2011-08-03 20:49:27 <luke-jr> linuxnub: people with Linux experience generally don't use Ubuntu
1773 2011-08-03 20:49:33 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1774 2011-08-03 20:49:53 <denisx> people with linux experience don't use linux! ;)
1775 2011-08-03 20:50:01 <neofutur> linuxnub: each user have a different history
1776 2011-08-03 20:50:30 erus` has joined
1777 2011-08-03 20:50:30 <linuxnub> Sorry, thought I logged out. Ubuntu channel said it was the .profile
1778 2011-08-03 20:50:37 Ycros has joined
1779 2011-08-03 20:50:38 <neofutur> linuxnub: its mostly impossible to understand your question, even after 13 years s linux experience, you could try to pefect your english
1780 2011-08-03 20:50:52 <linuxnub> Found out what it is and creating it now. Piss off all you assholes and thanks to let's see, no one. <#
1781 2011-08-03 20:50:56 <erus`> whats 4chans favourite unix command? cp
1782 2011-08-03 20:51:09 Ycros has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1783 2011-08-03 20:51:17 <jrmithdobbs> linuxnub: sorry we're not adept at deciphering idiot speak and couldn't assist you
1784 2011-08-03 20:51:22 <jrmithdobbs> we'll try harder
1785 2011-08-03 20:51:26 <jrmithdobbs> (no we won't)
1786 2011-08-03 20:51:39 <linuxnub> Try taking some english lessons then
1787 2011-08-03 20:51:43 linuxnub has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1788 2011-08-03 20:51:59 <neofutur> I d already have banned him for insulting people trying to help politely
1789 2011-08-03 20:52:51 b4epoche_ has joined
1790 2011-08-03 20:53:44 p0s has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1791 2011-08-03 20:54:48 Ycros has joined
1792 2011-08-03 20:55:02 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1793 2011-08-03 20:58:02 b4epoche_ has joined
1794 2011-08-03 20:59:03 <asher^> anyone know where in the bitcoin source the transaction for 50btc when generating a new block can be found?
1795 2011-08-03 20:59:33 <gmaxwell> asher^: yes.
1796 2011-08-03 21:00:24 glassresistor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1797 2011-08-03 21:00:32 MobiusL has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1798 2011-08-03 21:00:43 <gmaxwell> asher^: Woudl you like to know where it is, or did you just want to make sure someone knew?
1799 2011-08-03 21:01:01 <asher^> i would like to know where :)
1800 2011-08-03 21:01:03 <gmaxwell> asher^: see CreateNewBlock in main.cpp
1801 2011-08-03 21:01:07 <asher^> thanks!
1802 2011-08-03 21:01:40 <jtaylor> not in theGetBlockValue?
1803 2011-08-03 21:02:09 <jtaylor> -the
1804 2011-08-03 21:02:12 <gmaxwell> jtaylor: Well, thats not where the transaction is created.
1805 2011-08-03 21:02:22 glassresistor has joined
1806 2011-08-03 21:02:22 glassresistor has quit (Changing host)
1807 2011-08-03 21:02:22 glassresistor has joined
1808 2011-08-03 21:03:29 <jtaylor> ah yes misinterpreted the question
1809 2011-08-03 21:06:47 glassresistor has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1810 2011-08-03 21:09:30 Beremat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1811 2011-08-03 21:09:40 aaa3 has joined
1812 2011-08-03 21:10:06 Beremat has joined
1813 2011-08-03 21:10:12 [Tycho] has quit (Changing host)
1814 2011-08-03 21:10:12 [Tycho] has joined
1815 2011-08-03 21:10:12 OneTimePad1 has joined
1816 2011-08-03 21:11:00 Rabbit67890 has joined
1817 2011-08-03 21:11:02 eZP-[i] has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1818 2011-08-03 21:11:28 underscor has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1819 2011-08-03 21:11:28 iz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1820 2011-08-03 21:11:41 RAM2012 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1821 2011-08-03 21:11:45 ByronJohnson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1822 2011-08-03 21:12:20 doublec has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1823 2011-08-03 21:12:22 iz has joined
1824 2011-08-03 21:12:36 Herodes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1825 2011-08-03 21:12:49 doublec has joined
1826 2011-08-03 21:13:38 OneTimePad has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1827 2011-08-03 21:13:44 asher^ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1828 2011-08-03 21:15:55 codler has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])
1829 2011-08-03 21:16:12 owowo has joined
1830 2011-08-03 21:20:37 ByronJohnson has joined
1831 2011-08-03 21:22:30 RAM2012 has joined
1832 2011-08-03 21:24:31 underscor has joined
1833 2011-08-03 21:30:19 BlueMattBot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1834 2011-08-03 21:30:22 <nhodges> does jav (instawallet) come on irc atall
1835 2011-08-03 21:30:30 <nhodges> or would he be better reached on the  ofurs
1836 2011-08-03 21:30:31 <nhodges> forums
1837 2011-08-03 21:30:40 <jrmithdobbs> never heard of him
1838 2011-08-03 21:31:30 BlueMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1839 2011-08-03 21:32:13 BlueMatt has joined
1840 2011-08-03 21:32:16 gjs278 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1841 2011-08-03 21:33:53 BGL has joined
1842 2011-08-03 21:34:12 <nhodges> jrmithdobbs: this guy - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=32818.0
1843 2011-08-03 21:37:14 cjdelisle has joined
1844 2011-08-03 21:41:20 glassresistor has joined
1845 2011-08-03 21:46:45 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1846 2011-08-03 21:47:21 BlueMattBot has joined
1847 2011-08-03 21:48:23 <Eliel> bitcoincharts has been down for maintenance for quite a while now :/
1848 2011-08-03 21:49:06 <tcatm> Eliel: I need to change the database layout for tradehill and migrating 2.7 GByte of data takes time.
1849 2011-08-03 21:49:25 wolfspraul has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1850 2011-08-03 21:50:59 <Eliel> oh
1851 2011-08-03 21:51:11 <Eliel> yes, that would take a while.
1852 2011-08-03 21:51:57 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1853 2011-08-03 21:59:41 dvide has joined
1854 2011-08-03 22:00:05 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1855 2011-08-03 22:03:56 BuiZe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1856 2011-08-03 22:05:47 TheZimm has joined
1857 2011-08-03 22:09:05 ewal-otg has quit (Quit: ewal-otg)
1858 2011-08-03 22:10:56 underscor has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1859 2011-08-03 22:11:41 <erus`> now on my phenom 2
1860 2011-08-03 22:11:44 <erus`> not*
1861 2011-08-03 22:13:15 Lachesis has joined
1862 2011-08-03 22:13:28 moa7 has joined
1863 2011-08-03 22:13:43 erle- has quit (Quit: CETERVM•AVTEM•CENSEO•CVTTENBERC•ESSE•DELENDVM)
1864 2011-08-03 22:16:11 ee1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1865 2011-08-03 22:16:20 Rabbit67890 has quit (Quit: Rabbit67890)
1866 2011-08-03 22:18:37 Firefly007 has joined
1867 2011-08-03 22:19:40 mpr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1868 2011-08-03 22:19:44 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1869 2011-08-03 22:19:45 Rabbit67890 has joined
1870 2011-08-03 22:22:35 ThomasV has joined
1871 2011-08-03 22:25:04 Rabbit67890 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1872 2011-08-03 22:26:25 TheZimm has joined
1873 2011-08-03 22:26:40 nemesis51 is now known as nemesis51|away
1874 2011-08-03 22:27:22 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1875 2011-08-03 22:29:53 ThomasV has joined
1876 2011-08-03 22:30:32 mpr has joined
1877 2011-08-03 22:30:37 vrs has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1878 2011-08-03 22:30:51 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1879 2011-08-03 22:32:09 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
1880 2011-08-03 22:32:36 toffoo has quit ()
1881 2011-08-03 22:33:08 Raccoon` has joined
1882 2011-08-03 22:33:23 toffoo has joined
1883 2011-08-03 22:35:05 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1884 2011-08-03 22:35:31 Raccoon has joined
1885 2011-08-03 22:37:39 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1886 2011-08-03 22:37:44 Bwild has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1887 2011-08-03 22:38:01 Raccoon` has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1888 2011-08-03 22:38:35 arima has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1889 2011-08-03 22:38:43 Raccoon` has joined
1890 2011-08-03 22:38:44 ybit has joined
1891 2011-08-03 22:40:26 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1892 2011-08-03 22:40:27 Raccoon` is now known as Raccoon
1893 2011-08-03 22:41:48 Raccoon has quit (Client Quit)
1894 2011-08-03 22:42:09 Titeuf_87 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1895 2011-08-03 22:42:35 Raccoon has joined
1896 2011-08-03 22:47:16 meazsa has joined
1897 2011-08-03 22:49:52 Rabbit67890 has joined
1898 2011-08-03 22:50:53 arima has joined
1899 2011-08-03 22:52:34 meazsa has quit (Quit: Page closed)
1900 2011-08-03 22:52:40 Bwild has joined
1901 2011-08-03 22:52:40 klikklak has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1902 2011-08-03 22:53:17 Raccoon` has joined
1903 2011-08-03 22:53:42 klikklak has joined
1904 2011-08-03 22:53:47 Rabbit67890 has quit (Client Quit)
1905 2011-08-03 22:54:35 marf_away has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1906 2011-08-03 22:54:43 <erus`> is the guy who runs moonco.in on here?
1907 2011-08-03 22:54:55 Zarutian has joined
1908 2011-08-03 22:55:51 vrs has joined
1909 2011-08-03 22:56:04 normanrichards has quit (Quit: normanrichards)
1910 2011-08-03 22:56:05 Raccoon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1911 2011-08-03 22:56:06 Raccoon` is now known as Raccoon
1912 2011-08-03 22:56:07 copumpkin has joined
1913 2011-08-03 22:59:04 karnac has quit (Quit: karnac)
1914 2011-08-03 22:59:26 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1915 2011-08-03 22:59:26 bit_monger has joined
1916 2011-08-03 22:59:52 karnac has joined
1917 2011-08-03 23:00:41 Rabbit67890 has joined
1918 2011-08-03 23:03:57 MobiusL has joined
1919 2011-08-03 23:05:13 Optimo has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1920 2011-08-03 23:05:47 Optimo has joined
1921 2011-08-03 23:07:10 bit_monger has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1922 2011-08-03 23:10:47 mosi has quit (out!~mos@dongs.dtegaming.com|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1923 2011-08-03 23:11:00 coderrr is now known as coderrr`brb
1924 2011-08-03 23:11:57 gjs278 has joined
1925 2011-08-03 23:13:49 vrs has quit (Quit: Reconnecting)
1926 2011-08-03 23:13:53 vrs has joined
1927 2011-08-03 23:13:53 vrs has quit (Changing host)
1928 2011-08-03 23:13:53 vrs has joined
1929 2011-08-03 23:14:43 <moa7> erus` : that would be mr_moon ... is known to haunt #namecoin
1930 2011-08-03 23:15:05 wardearia has joined
1931 2011-08-03 23:21:00 bit_monger has joined
1932 2011-08-03 23:23:27 <nexes> Does someone know whether it's necessary to implement a transaction queue for a high volume of rpc calls to bitcoind? Or does it handle that itself. I'm wondering if it's likely to throw errors if I hammer it or if it will queue things up itself nicely. :x
1933 2011-08-03 23:24:07 <nexes> I haven't looked experimented much with it yet, so I apologize if it's an obvious answer. :)
1934 2011-08-03 23:25:31 <xelister> #bitcoin-market is dead?
1935 2011-08-03 23:25:52 <imsaguy> the bot is
1936 2011-08-03 23:25:56 <imsaguy> broken feed
1937 2011-08-03 23:26:05 <xelister> ~8.9 .. ? wtf is this
1938 2011-08-03 23:26:39 Pinion has joined
1939 2011-08-03 23:27:20 <gmaxwell> nexes: it'll block but I don't think it will throw errors.
1940 2011-08-03 23:27:44 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1941 2011-08-03 23:27:55 Stellar has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1942 2011-08-03 23:28:04 <nexes> gmaxwell: Good to know. Thanks.
1943 2011-08-03 23:28:35 wardearia has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1944 2011-08-03 23:29:30 Cusipzzz has joined
1945 2011-08-03 23:29:50 <gmaxwell> nexes: there are patches floating around to make the RPC interface async, but I'd be really surprised if they didn't expose some race conditions in the bitcoin code.
1946 2011-08-03 23:31:19 ciscoftw_l33t has quit ()
1947 2011-08-03 23:31:22 <nexes> gmaxwell: That isn't strictly necessary. Do you happen to know how mtgox and others handle high volume?
1948 2011-08-03 23:31:41 <nexes> Can they handle it with a single bitcoind or do they have multiple instances they manage?
1949 2011-08-03 23:32:14 <gmaxwell> I don't think anyone is handling a volume beyond what a single instance would be fine for, except some of the larger pools handling mining traffic.
1950 2011-08-03 23:32:41 owowo has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1951 2011-08-03 23:32:45 <nexes> Good point. I suppose deepbit is more likely to encounter that issue than mtgox.
1952 2011-08-03 23:32:59 <gmaxwell> (keep in mind that every bitcoin user is already validating the whole network— the only real scale issues I'd expect for something like mtgox come from having wallets with many available inputs)
1953 2011-08-03 23:33:00 <nexes> Then again, they have geographically spread servers.
1954 2011-08-03 23:33:21 ThomasV has joined
1955 2011-08-03 23:33:27 <gmaxwell> In any case, if I hit scaling issues I'd just run multiple bitcoinds. Easier than improving the software.
1956 2011-08-03 23:33:44 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1957 2011-08-03 23:34:03 karnac_ has joined
1958 2011-08-03 23:34:19 <nexes> Well, but then running multiple bitcoind's can be tricky. You'd need to ensure you're accessing the instance with the right keys.
1959 2011-08-03 23:34:27 <imsaguy> thats not so pad
1960 2011-08-03 23:34:30 <imsaguy> bad*
1961 2011-08-03 23:34:45 <imsaguy> you look up their bitcoin instance based off their login
1962 2011-08-03 23:34:52 <imsaguy> pretty easy actually
1963 2011-08-03 23:35:02 karnac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1964 2011-08-03 23:35:16 <nexes> Yeah, so you can't just assign an instance on demand. You'd need to decide in advance to have a particular user on a particular instance.
1965 2011-08-03 23:35:16 <imsaguy> if one server is overloaded, you move some wallets
1966 2011-08-03 23:35:23 <imsaguy> nah
1967 2011-08-03 23:35:26 <imsaguy> you can move them around
1968 2011-08-03 23:35:33 b4epoche_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1969 2011-08-03 23:35:36 <imsaguy> export from one and import to another
1970 2011-08-03 23:35:46 <nexes> True.
1971 2011-08-03 23:36:10 <nexes> Anyway, I'm probably just overplanning. It's better to just get writing code and worry about scale issues if they ever come up. :p
1972 2011-08-03 23:36:31 <gmaxwell> nexes: "have a particular user on a particular instance" no you don't.
1973 2011-08-03 23:36:51 <gmaxwell> If you're using multiple users against a wallet then you're already pooling.
1974 2011-08-03 23:36:56 b4epoche_ has joined
1975 2011-08-03 23:37:17 <gmaxwell> e.g. a payment into user A may be redeemed for a payment from user B.
1976 2011-08-03 23:37:18 <imsaguy> no
1977 2011-08-03 23:37:26 <imsaguy> you should always be thinking about scaling
1978 2011-08-03 23:37:31 <imsaguy> ounce of prevention
1979 2011-08-03 23:38:08 <nexes> gmaxwell: In my particular case, that won't work.
1980 2011-08-03 23:38:26 <gmaxwell> Since the software will always already pool multiple "accounts" there would be no harm in just randomly spreading txn over bitcoinds.. other than you'll have to make sure you keep the balances somewhat equalized.
1981 2011-08-03 23:38:42 <gmaxwell> nexes: if that won't work you're probably misunderstanding what bitcoin does in a dangerous way.
1982 2011-08-03 23:39:53 <gmaxwell> So you should tell me why you think it won't work.
1983 2011-08-03 23:40:15 <lfm> dont use bitcoin accounts.
1984 2011-08-03 23:40:42 <lfm> just keep one balance
1985 2011-08-03 23:40:58 <lfm> keep track of who owns what separtly
1986 2011-08-03 23:41:59 <imsaguy> thats possible too
1987 2011-08-03 23:42:04 <nexes> Sorry, back.
1988 2011-08-03 23:42:14 <nexes> gmaxwell: I'm going to be using multisign.
1989 2011-08-03 23:42:19 <gmaxwell> A lot of people think bitcoin accounts == multiple wallets, but thats not how it works.
1990 2011-08-03 23:42:50 <gmaxwell> What do you mean by multisign?
1991 2011-08-03 23:42:52 <nexes> gmaxwell: Do you mind if I PM you?
1992 2011-08-03 23:43:19 <gmaxwell> No, if I didn't want your PM's I'd just ignore them anyways.
1993 2011-08-03 23:43:28 nulonymous has joined
1994 2011-08-03 23:44:24 <lfm> nexes: you know mitisign isnt supported in the main net yet
1995 2011-08-03 23:44:31 <lfm> multisign
1996 2011-08-03 23:44:55 wardearia has joined
1997 2011-08-03 23:46:34 erus` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1998 2011-08-03 23:46:46 TheZimm has joined
1999 2011-08-03 23:49:48 <nexes> lfm: So I just found out. :\
2000 2011-08-03 23:51:18 <gmaxwell> And it'll be at least a little while before it is— even once isStandard changes it will take a while for the network to upgrade before these txn will be reliable.
2001 2011-08-03 23:51:44 <gmaxwell> I'd like to see the isStandard change happen sooner rather than later though, I posted about it but it's had very few followups.
2002 2011-08-03 23:52:25 <nexes> Yeah, the potential here is pretty significant. It's too bad it won't work now.
2003 2011-08-03 23:54:15 devon_hillard has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2004 2011-08-03 23:56:41 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2005 2011-08-03 23:57:09 Pinion has quit (Quit: Has quit)
2006 2011-08-03 23:58:09 normanrichards has joined
2007 2011-08-03 23:59:43 <gmaxwell> If you're planning on making a business that makes use of it, I'd suggest that you keep working on it, and also keep prodding people to get it included.
2008 2011-08-03 23:59:51 bit_monger has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330])