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   2 2011-08-09 00:04:22 <ImRoot702> k. thx!
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  32 2011-08-09 00:48:48 <glassresistor> who here uses ozco.in for mining?  i forgot my pin and can't chnage any settings
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  71 2011-08-09 02:25:32 * luke-jr wonders if one could compress data by replacing every chunk with a position in blk0001.dat
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  80 2011-08-09 02:36:17 <copumpkin> luke-jr: you serious?
  81 2011-08-09 02:36:33 <copumpkin> an information theorist wants to have a talk with you :)
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  84 2011-08-09 02:37:15 <tcatm> luke-jr: not everyone has the same blk0001.dat
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  90 2011-08-09 02:42:23 <copumpkin> luke-jr: I can explain why that probably wouldn't work if you want
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  96 2011-08-09 02:51:33 <luke-jr> copumpkin: because the file is so big, the pointers would take up more space? :P
  97 2011-08-09 02:51:41 <copumpkin> basically :)
  98 2011-08-09 02:54:28 <luke-jr> we can compress the pointers!
  99 2011-08-09 02:54:30 <luke-jr> oh wait…
 100 2011-08-09 02:54:32 <copumpkin> :)
 101 2011-08-09 02:54:36 <luke-jr> ;)
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 124 2011-08-09 03:38:41 <JamesBBB> so i guess i was not away tradehill no longer usese dwolla?
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 126 2011-08-09 03:38:47 <JamesBBB> #tradehill
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 171 2011-08-09 05:52:08 <osmosis> please link me to the wiki page that has the seed hosts.
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 183 2011-08-09 06:07:49 <nanotube> ;;bc,wiki fallback nodes
 184 2011-08-09 06:07:49 <gribble> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes | Fallback Nodes. From Bitcoin. Jump to: navigation, search. This is a list of nodes which are considered reliable. Nodes from this list which are down for ...
 185 2011-08-09 06:07:56 <nanotube> ah he's gone heh
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 187 2011-08-09 06:11:35 <lfm> who
 188 2011-08-09 06:11:44 <lfm> oh
 189 2011-08-09 06:11:54 <lfm> ya
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 208 2011-08-09 06:46:45 <Doktor99_> if a miner does a getwork() a starts hashing, how long before the work is stale?
 209 2011-08-09 06:47:05 <Doktor99_> can I increment the timestamp and keep going...
 210 2011-08-09 06:47:23 <Doktor99_> or do I just quit if I exhaust the nonce space, and call getwork() again
 211 2011-08-09 06:48:09 <luke-jr> Doktor99_: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getwork
 212 2011-08-09 06:48:18 <luke-jr> Doktor99_: specifically, see the rollntime extension
 213 2011-08-09 06:53:14 <Doktor99_> i.e. the native client
 214 2011-08-09 06:53:26 <Doktor99_> and if yes, what time does it give
 215 2011-08-09 06:53:47 <Doktor99_> for expire
 216 2011-08-09 06:54:36 <Doktor99_> and then, if I find a block but it's missing some transactions, under what conditions will it be rejected by the network
 217 2011-08-09 06:56:34 ybit has quit (Changing host)
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 219 2011-08-09 06:56:50 <Doktor99_> I mean, obviously it will be rejected if a new block has been found in the meantime
 220 2011-08-09 06:57:00 <Doktor99_> but that is not the question
 221 2011-08-09 06:57:51 <lfm> ya you can take as long as you feel like risking a new block showing up
 222 2011-08-09 06:58:29 <lfm> and if you are just mining solo with boicoin(d) you can increase the time stamp
 223 2011-08-09 06:59:04 <Doktor99_> so what is the incentive to bother incorporating new transactions, other than the transaction fees
 224 2011-08-09 07:00:01 <lfm> just being nice generally. Some people figure if you include free txn you make for more widespread use of bitcoin in general
 225 2011-08-09 07:00:14 <Doktor99_> that makes sense
 226 2011-08-09 07:00:31 <Doktor99_> do any pools support rollntime
 227 2011-08-09 07:00:55 <lfm> not sure which ones
 228 2011-08-09 07:00:57 <Doktor99_> i'd think not, since they want you to getwork() to ensure all transactions are included and they get their fees
 229 2011-08-09 07:01:16 <Doktor99_> (since most pools keep the fees, at the moment)
 230 2011-08-09 07:01:23 <lfm> most are going to the long-pole instead of plain getwork
 231 2011-08-09 07:01:40 <lfm> poll
 232 2011-08-09 07:02:04 <Doktor99_> right, but long-pole isn't relevant to my question: that just ensures that you getwork() straight away if a new block is found
 233 2011-08-09 07:02:25 <lfm> or a new txn with fee wants to get in
 234 2011-08-09 07:02:42 sgornick has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 235 2011-08-09 07:03:03 <Doktor99_> does long-pole trigger if a new fee paying transaction shows up?
 236 2011-08-09 07:03:09 <Doktor99_> or is that up to the pool?
 237 2011-08-09 07:03:15 <lfm> I think so, it should
 238 2011-08-09 07:03:19 <Doktor99_> right
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 241 2011-08-09 07:04:20 <Doktor99_> ok, i think that about clears it up
 242 2011-08-09 07:05:17 <Doktor99_> just to be clear: if I getwork() from bitcoind, do I need to explicitly request with  "X-Roll-NTime" header, or can I just take that liberty
 243 2011-08-09 07:05:54 <Doktor99_> i.e. if I getwork() and I decide to roll the timestamp "without permission", then find a new block and submit my result with another call to getwork(), what will happen?
 244 2011-08-09 07:05:57 <lfm> no, bitcoin(d) accepts "rolltime" by default. it won't recognize that header
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 246 2011-08-09 07:06:23 <lfm> it should be accepted
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 249 2011-08-09 07:07:28 <lfm> your only problem is if you start updating the time too fast and you get like an hour ahead or something
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 251 2011-08-09 07:08:00 <Doktor99_> lfm: what, then there is a change that the timestamp is invalid?
 252 2011-08-09 07:08:11 <Doktor99_> chance
 253 2011-08-09 07:08:23 <Doktor99_> the timestamp is Unix time or something, right
 254 2011-08-09 07:08:44 <Doktor99_> so long as your inserting the actual time, you should be good
 255 2011-08-09 07:08:55 <lfm> ya, it is really quite relaxed but there is an extreme chance the timestamp would be rejected.
 256 2011-08-09 07:09:40 <lfm> unix or mswin time() call ya
 257 2011-08-09 07:10:45 <Doktor99_> I guess the other way to ask the question is: how fast would you have to be hashing to rip through an entire nonce space every second... actually maybe only something like 4.5 GHash/s
 258 2011-08-09 07:10:57 <lfm> yup
 259 2011-08-09 07:10:59 <Doktor99_> is the timestamp to the second, right??
 260 2011-08-09 07:11:06 <lfm> yup
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 264 2011-08-09 07:17:05 <Doktor99_> ok, so what triggers an update of the overflow nonce (new Merkle root)... what logic... I can only imagine it would be necessary if the transaction rate was low and the hash rate very very high
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 268 2011-08-09 07:23:35 <Doktor99_> like, if I am hashing at > 4.5 GHash/s, then varying the none and timestamp is insufficient... but how do I communicate with my getwork() call that I have overflowed
 269 2011-08-09 07:25:15 <Doktor99_> lfm: since I cannot just go ahead and update the root myself
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 271 2011-08-09 07:35:34 <Doktor99_> if I call getwork() twice in a short enough interval (no new transactions, no 'new work' to do), will the overflow nonce automatically be incremented?
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 279 2011-08-09 07:38:43 <kenny__> Hi everyone / Bonjour tout le monde
 280 2011-08-09 07:40:04 <lfm> Doktor99_: well the bitcoind design doesnt handle it very gracefully I dont think. it was orginally designed with cpu hash rates in mind and not many of them either. I think it kinda assumes you wont be hashing much greater than 4gh/s
 281 2011-08-09 07:40:24 <lfm> (not many cores)
 282 2011-08-09 07:40:41 <Doktor99_> one option that I can think of would be to use multiple receiving addresses
 283 2011-08-09 07:40:42 <Doktor99_> for the award
 284 2011-08-09 07:40:55 <Doktor99_> which are trivial to generate, right?
 285 2011-08-09 07:41:12 abragin has joined
 286 2011-08-09 07:41:12 <lfm> yup, there is also a thing in the "coinbase" txn called an extra nonce
 287 2011-08-09 07:41:31 <Doktor99_> I'm aware of that; is it automatically incremented
 288 2011-08-09 07:41:45 nr9 has joined
 289 2011-08-09 07:41:55 <lfm> Im not sure of the details of its use really
 290 2011-08-09 07:41:59 stalled has joined
 291 2011-08-09 07:42:08 <Doktor99_> so if I call bitcoin(d) getwork() twice, it will automatically increment I assume
 292 2011-08-09 07:42:14 <MrSam> yes
 293 2011-08-09 07:42:20 <MrSam> extranounce
 294 2011-08-09 07:42:42 <Doktor99_> actually, bitcoin(d) must automatically use your current wallet address for the award
 295 2011-08-09 07:42:44 <lfm> there does seem to be a limit to how many miners the standard bitcoin(d) can handle. I think its something like 10 or 12
 296 2011-08-09 07:42:47 <Doktor99_> so that doesn't work for extra entropy
 297 2011-08-09 07:43:46 <lfm> not sure if it uses the default next address/key or it has it's own
 298 2011-08-09 07:44:07 <kenny__> Hi, just a question can i use bitcoins on 3 computers at home (1pc and 2 servers) ?
 299 2011-08-09 07:44:12 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 300 2011-08-09 07:44:18 <lfm> sure
 301 2011-08-09 07:44:21 <Doktor99_> well, it has to be your address... so either it's the current address or some new valid addres
 302 2011-08-09 07:44:22 nanotube has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 303 2011-08-09 07:44:32 <lfm> yup
 304 2011-08-09 07:44:56 <kenny__> ok then how i redirect my port 8333 on each...? :D
 305 2011-08-09 07:45:03 <Doktor99_> I guess the code will say it all
 306 2011-08-09 07:45:25 <Doktor99_> if I feel like digging through the bitcoin(d) code
 307 2011-08-09 07:45:28 <Doktor99_> to find out
 308 2011-08-09 07:46:04 <lfm> oh only one would be visible from the outside on port 8333 of course on a NAT lan. the other should be fine just using outgoin connections tho
 309 2011-08-09 07:46:51 <kenny__> ok i understand thank you :)
 310 2011-08-09 07:47:24 <lfm> you can add the -addnode= parms to link the local nodes together
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 313 2011-08-09 07:48:37 <kenny__> ok hummm how i can do that..? and what is the node
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 315 2011-08-09 07:49:16 <lfm> just the ip number - its not reqally needed
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 318 2011-08-09 07:50:47 <kenny__> ok, im not really a good informatician... where i put this -addnode= params
 319 2011-08-09 07:51:09 <imsaguy> in the commandline
 320 2011-08-09 07:51:19 <imsaguy> if you use a shortcut, you have to add it in
 321 2011-08-09 07:51:28 <imsaguy> if you launch the program manually, you just type it in at the end
 322 2011-08-09 07:51:32 <lfm> no, you dont have to
 323 2011-08-09 07:51:44 <lfm> ya its command line parm
 324 2011-08-09 07:51:50 <kenny__> ok
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 326 2011-08-09 07:53:30 <kenny__> i make something like a batch with bitcoind.exe -addnode=..... on the bitcoinD (server)
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 329 2011-08-09 07:56:22 <osmosis> anyone have the link to the seed list on the wiki?
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 331 2011-08-09 07:56:51 <imsaguy> hold on osmosis
 332 2011-08-09 07:57:04 <imsaguy> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Fallback_Nodes
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 345 2011-08-09 08:41:18 <Plasma-> Hello devs. With the listtransactions RPC call for the official Bitcoin client, a 'time' field is returned that is a 64bit number. Am I correct in saying its the unix timestamp (and so its also in UTC) of when the transaction was received by the network (and not my local bitcoin client)?
 346 2011-08-09 08:41:29 <Plasma-> I am wanting to work out the 'date' of the transaction
 347 2011-08-09 08:41:54 <osmosis> imsaguy, thx
 348 2011-08-09 08:43:30 <edcba> received by the client ?
 349 2011-08-09 08:43:35 <edcba> not sure of that
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 351 2011-08-09 08:44:09 <edcba> it may be dated by tx creator
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 354 2011-08-09 08:56:54 <lfm> if you have linux you can use the date -d @number command to work out the dat
 355 2011-08-09 08:58:40 <lfm> so like "date -d @1309780976" displays your local time corresponding to that number
 356 2011-08-09 08:58:52 E-sense has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
 357 2011-08-09 08:59:07 <lfm> like "Mon Jul  4 06:02:56 MDT 2011"
 358 2011-08-09 08:59:24 E-sense has joined
 359 2011-08-09 08:59:29 <lfm> or date -u -d @number" would show the utc time for it
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 361 2011-08-09 09:00:48 <phantomcircuit> Plasma-, it's either the time your client received it or the time it was included in a block
 362 2011-08-09 09:00:51 <phantomcircuit> i cant remember
 363 2011-08-09 09:00:52 <phantomcircuit> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#tx
 364 2011-08-09 09:02:55 <lfm> probably timestamp from your local ssytem when it first sees the txn
 365 2011-08-09 09:04:16 <phantomcircuit> i think that the timestamp is the block timestamp once it's included
 366 2011-08-09 09:06:50 <lfm> nope I just checked, they dont match
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 369 2011-08-09 09:11:07 <lfm> oh they do match for received txn, for txn I sent the time is different
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 375 2011-08-09 09:21:25 <Plasma-> thanks everyone; im running a test (sent a coin while offline, will check back in a while to check the time difference)
 376 2011-08-09 09:21:48 <Plasma-> was using http://www.unixtimestamp.com/ to quickly do a timestamp conversion, got confused because the output is in EST( -5hrs) instead of UTC heh :)
 377 2011-08-09 09:22:20 <phantomcircuit> lfm, lul
 378 2011-08-09 09:22:25 <phantomcircuit> lfm, that's probably a bug
 379 2011-08-09 09:23:10 <Plasma-> back later, but will find out whats going on soon. thanks for the advice. afk
 380 2011-08-09 09:23:24 <Darnoth> http://www.epochconverter.com/ will show your timezone and GMT.
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 413 2011-08-09 10:24:28 <sacarlson> there must be a way to resend a transaction,  seems when I sent one of my transactions I lost connection and now that send won't get confirmed
 414 2011-08-09 10:25:01 <sacarlson> I was able to send another transaction from the same source and the secound already confirmed
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 421 2011-08-09 10:39:23 <sacarlson> -rescan seem not to have helped
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 423 2011-08-09 10:41:38 <wumpus> rescan does not re-send transactions
 424 2011-08-09 10:41:50 <wumpus> afaik they are automatically rebroadcasted after a while
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 433 2011-08-09 11:17:16 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, i wrote a patch that adds a resendtxs rpc call
 434 2011-08-09 11:18:38 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: cool I'll check it out
 435 2011-08-09 11:19:03 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: github ?
 436 2011-08-09 11:19:28 <phantomcircuit> yeah one sec i made improvements since then
 437 2011-08-09 11:23:17 <phantomcircuit> sacarlson, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/421
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 439 2011-08-09 11:27:03 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: ok thanks I'll check it out
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 453 2011-08-09 11:58:23 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: oh weard even before I looked at that code a few more blocks came it and it finaly got confirmed just one block back
 454 2011-08-09 11:58:38 <phantomcircuit> heh
 455 2011-08-09 11:59:07 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: so when would that be needed then if it self corrects your resend?
 456 2011-08-09 11:59:45 <phantomcircuit> the resend happens randomly between the first connection and 30 minutes
 457 2011-08-09 11:59:51 <phantomcircuit> which personally i find to be annoying as fuck
 458 2011-08-09 12:00:01 <phantomcircuit> but i can understand why it's there
 459 2011-08-09 12:00:24 <sacarlson> phantomcircuit: oh ok well if I had known that I might of just waited,  but the disconect was like 3 hours ago so I didn't know
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 474 2011-08-09 12:16:40 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,mtgox
 475 2011-08-09 12:16:41 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":10.25,"low":7.6,"avg":8.498840737,"vwap":8.771925917,"vol":75535,"last":10.1,"buy":10.1,"sell":10.14464}}
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 479 2011-08-09 12:18:49 <Plasma-> <phantomcircuit> Plasma-, it's either the time your client received it or the time it was included in a block <---- to answer my own question from earlier, the 'time' field in the rpc call getlatesttransactions appears to be a unix timestamp (so UTC) of when the txn was accepted/broadcast/etc? by the network
 480 2011-08-09 12:18:52 * jgarzik pokes the network... confirm, darn you!
 481 2011-08-09 12:19:03 HaltingState has left ()
 482 2011-08-09 12:19:10 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, lol
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 489 2011-08-09 12:38:22 <xelister> 12.00 already BUY BUY BUY we are going in for 13 in next hour, 17 in evening
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 494 2011-08-09 12:47:42 <lfm> xelister: we?
 495 2011-08-09 12:48:21 <b4epoche_> him and his mom
 496 2011-08-09 12:49:53 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
 497 2011-08-09 12:49:57 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":12.1,"low":7.6,"avg":8.876262773,"vwap":9.217614992,"vol":91339,"last":10.487,"buy":10.25024,"sell":10.5}}
 498 2011-08-09 12:50:21 <edcba> wait this morning it was 8 no ?
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 506 2011-08-09 13:08:33 <copumpkin> edcba: yeah
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 524 2011-08-09 14:23:37 <b4epoche_> is there a 'bitcoincharts' forum?  or is it just best to find tcatm here?
 525 2011-08-09 14:25:50 <CIA-101> DiabloMiner: Patrick McFarland master * r39df3ef / src/main/java/com/diablominer/DiabloMiner/DiabloMiner.java : Improved error handling more, remove usage of System.exit() and blanket ... https://github.com/Diablo-D3/DiabloMiner/commit/39df3efc14c52b000714b358a2158b7022e424e3
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 530 2011-08-09 14:30:30 <tcatm> b4epoche_: either msg me here or email info@bitcoincharts.com
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 548 2011-08-09 14:57:10 <ImRoot702> i've heard the client pre-generates bitcoin addresses when you create a wallet. But when I run 'bitcoind getaddressbyaccount "" ', i just get one address. can someone address my misconception?
 549 2011-08-09 14:57:54 <asher^> you still need to go through the process of making a new address
 550 2011-08-09 14:57:59 <tcatm> ImRoot702: the pre-generated addresses are "hidden" until you use them
 551 2011-08-09 14:58:01 <asher^> it pre-generates them just to save time when you do that
 552 2011-08-09 14:58:04 shLONG has joined
 553 2011-08-09 14:58:34 <arcatan> "Returns the current bitcoin address for receiving payments to this account." says the wiki
 554 2011-08-09 14:58:46 <arcatan> whoops, sorry, read the wrong line
 555 2011-08-09 14:59:10 gut4 has joined
 556 2011-08-09 14:59:26 <ImRoot702> ok. thanks guys. a wiki link would be nice if someone has it handy
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 559 2011-08-09 15:01:26 <jtaylor> ImRoot702: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Key_pool
 560 2011-08-09 15:01:36 <jtaylor> hm ok its not ver long ^^
 561 2011-08-09 15:02:38 <jtaylor> and its not really to save time, but so you don't need to backup your wallet after every new adress
 562 2011-08-09 15:03:02 <ImRoot702> ok. thanks for that! but I still dont understand the purpose of "hiding" them or why they are not visible. would gavin's bitcointools be able to reveal those pregenerated addresses?
 563 2011-08-09 15:03:27 <tcatm> bitcointools shows them
 564 2011-08-09 15:03:35 <asher^> because many people have no use for 100 addresses
 565 2011-08-09 15:04:05 <tcatm> they are hidden so they can be used for change transactions without confusing the user
 566 2011-08-09 15:04:33 <ImRoot702> ah. k. thanks tcatm asher^  jtaylor !!! just trying to make sure I have a solid understanding
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 568 2011-08-09 15:06:13 <ImRoot702> once a wallet has been generated, is there a way to pregen any more addresses if I felt the need given a backup schedule and new use or would it just be more prudent to recreate a new wallet with the option to specify more pregen'd addresses?
 569 2011-08-09 15:07:17 <asher^> when would you need more than 100 new ones at once?
 570 2011-08-09 15:08:24 <ImRoot702> not at once, just over a period of time between a wallets backup i guess
 571 2011-08-09 15:10:21 <asher^> iirc when you use one, another is generated so theres always 100 spare
 572 2011-08-09 15:10:35 <b4epoche_> asher^:  get to bed, you got classes tomorrow ;-)
 573 2011-08-09 15:11:12 <ImRoot702> and what if I only receive at a wallet's address... the backup/pregenerated address problem only comes into play if I have a lot of "change" from sends. if it's receive only for a long period of time, the problem doesn't come into play. is that correct?
 574 2011-08-09 15:11:31 <asher^> b4epoche hehe
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 576 2011-08-09 15:14:21 <b4epoche_> copumpkin:  ping
 577 2011-08-09 15:19:34 <copumpkin> pong
 578 2011-08-09 15:19:38 <copumpkin> kind of busy though :)
 579 2011-08-09 15:20:52 <Eliel> tcatm: the change transactions are actually confusing in some respects _because_ the addresses are hidden.
 580 2011-08-09 15:21:23 <Eliel> I know there are at least a few people who have bungled up their backups because of it.
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 582 2011-08-09 15:22:45 <b4epoche_> copumpkin:  just wanted to introduce you to tcatm, another haskeller ;-)
 583 2011-08-09 15:22:52 <copumpkin> oh yay
 584 2011-08-09 15:22:58 <copumpkin> moar haskell
 585 2011-08-09 15:23:21 <Eliel> although, granted, most of them were also because of the client failing to generate the first 100 addresses at wallet creation.
 586 2011-08-09 15:23:33 <Eliel> ah, more haskellers :) good good
 587 2011-08-09 15:24:02 Clipse has joined
 588 2011-08-09 15:24:25 <b4epoche_> maybe we'll eventually have a haskell backend to bitcoincharts, eh tcatm ?
 589 2011-08-09 15:24:32 <copumpkin> :D
 590 2011-08-09 15:26:28 <tcatm> b4epoche_: unlikely. I'm not going to rewrite 9623 SLOC again. (first version of bitcoincharts was shellscripts + perl)
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 592 2011-08-09 15:28:09 <copumpkin> pff
 593 2011-08-09 15:28:13 <copumpkin> that'd be like 10 lines of haskell, duh
 594 2011-08-09 15:28:31 <tcatm> 10 very long lines ;)
 595 2011-08-09 15:28:33 <copumpkin> you just need to use the zygohistomorphic prepromorphism
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 610 2011-08-09 16:06:25 <vegard> hm, guys
 611 2011-08-09 16:06:29 <vegard> maybe this has been suggested before
 612 2011-08-09 16:07:00 <vegard> but couldn't transactions include a proof of work?
 613 2011-08-09 16:07:08 <vegard> to discourage flooding, I mean
 614 2011-08-09 16:08:18 <Diablo-D3> no because it was not built into the original system
 615 2011-08-09 16:08:33 <dreamer_> I doubt the goddess of weather will flood your house just because of lack of proof of work :)
 616 2011-08-09 16:08:40 <vegard> it doesn't have to become a part of the block chain
 617 2011-08-09 16:08:42 <Diablo-D3> the system already deals with the flooding problem with tx fees.
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 619 2011-08-09 16:09:04 <vegard> but miners could include transactions that have a valid proof of work associated
 620 2011-08-09 16:09:11 <Diablo-D3> vegard: no
 621 2011-08-09 16:09:16 <Diablo-D3> btc is designed as a pay to play system
 622 2011-08-09 16:10:47 <vegard> are you afraid of taking away the incentive to mine once all the coins have been minted?
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 624 2011-08-09 16:11:23 <Diablo-D3> yes
 625 2011-08-09 16:11:31 <Diablo-D3> I mean, this is one of the core principals of the system
 626 2011-08-09 16:11:37 <vegard> then say so ;) it's much easier to understand that.
 627 2011-08-09 16:11:41 <Diablo-D3> if tx fees didnt exist, your way would already be used.
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 630 2011-08-09 16:14:34 <vegard> well, what about a proof of work just for broadcasting messages?
 631 2011-08-09 16:15:01 <vegard> nevermind, I guess it's not necessary.
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 652 2011-08-09 16:44:05 <CIA-101> bitcoin: Gavin Andresen master * r9f0ac16 / src/net.cpp : Do-nothing MapPort() ifndef USE_UPNP. fixes #450 - http://bit.ly/mSHAFD https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/9f0ac16942d9f15ec57204448436cd429badf481
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 704 2011-08-09 17:55:07 <forrestv> my bitcoind just locked up - no cpu usage, no answering rpc calls
 705 2011-08-09 17:55:14 <forrestv> i have a backtrace of all the threads from gdb: http://pastebin.com/na6tbVhT
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 708 2011-08-09 17:56:16 k9quaint is now known as Mad8Scientist
 709 2011-08-09 17:56:17 <forrestv> looks like most of the threads are waiting on CRITICAL_BLOCK(cs_mapAddresses)?
 710 2011-08-09 17:56:26 Mad8Scientist is now known as k9quaint
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 712 2011-08-09 17:57:00 <forrestv> this is from git, commit 9326234
 713 2011-08-09 17:57:28 <gavinandresen> forrestv: see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/453
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 716 2011-08-09 18:00:37 <forrestv> not sure that it's the same thing. i'm not using an encrypted wallet or the gui
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 720 2011-08-09 18:03:23 <xelister> lolo http://www.squarewear.biz/image/cache/data/smallStoreBitcoinMemory-200x200.jpg  I'm old :(
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 725 2011-08-09 18:10:49 <dooglus> is there some way to unencrypt my wallet once I've encrypted it?
 726 2011-08-09 18:11:53 <dooglus> I tried using 'walletpassphrasechange' with the 2nd arg being '', but it gives me a usage error
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 741 2011-08-09 18:39:11 <diki> i want someone to tell me, in pushpool, msg.c check_hash function, the line with if(hash[27] == 0) which checks if the hash should be sent to bitcoind, someone told me that i can also add hash[26] == 0
 742 2011-08-09 18:39:12 <diki> why?
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 746 2011-08-09 18:45:18 <Zagitta> diki: i would assume it's because the difficulty is >1 mil now but i'm not entirly sure
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 748 2011-08-09 18:48:02 <Caesium> yeah, assume it's that 1048576 in hex is 100000, so there is another zero to take advantage of
 749 2011-08-09 18:48:31 <Caesium> anything below and hash[27] wouldn't be zero, so it only works at diff >= 1048576
 750 2011-08-09 18:48:43 <Caesium> er 26
 751 2011-08-09 18:49:44 <Caesium> hash32[7] checks the last 4 in one operation, then hash[27] checks the fifth from the end
 752 2011-08-09 18:50:00 <Caesium> I tihnk ;)
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 789 2011-08-09 19:42:40 <zyphlar> Has anyone seen jargon lately? I need to pass an urgent message from Kaminsky
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 792 2011-08-09 19:49:30 <FractalUniverse> ;;seen jargon
 793 2011-08-09 19:49:31 <gribble> jargon was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 day, 8 hours, 44 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <jargon> Why do Humans make such good tv antennas, yet we don't have telepathy so much.
 794 2011-08-09 19:49:45 <FractalUniverse> no;)
 795 2011-08-09 19:52:38 <edcba> that jargon : http://pastebin.com/2ADv2FL5 ?
 796 2011-08-09 19:53:14 darkskiez has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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 798 2011-08-09 19:53:31 <zyphlar> Damn, I must transfer this vital knowledge to him
 799 2011-08-09 19:54:02 <edcba> vital knowledge being kaminsky drunk ?
 800 2011-08-09 19:54:57 <zyphlar> I've been watching kaminsky for days
 801 2011-08-09 19:55:15 <zyphlar> He knows things about bitcoin
 802 2011-08-09 19:55:21 <edcba> lol no shit
 803 2011-08-09 19:55:37 <upb> lol
 804 2011-08-09 19:55:40 <edcba> maybe he even did some conference about it !
 805 2011-08-09 19:55:52 <zyphlar> Its possible, I can't confirm
 806 2011-08-09 19:56:15 <upb> there is an imminent threat to bitcoin but he can only reveal it to the affected parties right
 807 2011-08-09 19:56:18 <edcba> yeah maybe he wasn't him after all
 808 2011-08-09 19:56:27 <edcba> haha
 809 2011-08-09 19:56:30 <upb> and the details will be released at the next conference
 810 2011-08-09 19:56:40 <upb> tickets can be bought here:
 811 2011-08-09 19:56:45 <zyphlar> Absolutely, I need to let everyone know that they can't know
 812 2011-08-09 19:56:59 <edcba> sell ! sell !
 813 2011-08-09 19:57:10 <edcba> ;;bc,mtgox
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 815 2011-08-09 19:57:14 <gribble> {"ticker":{"high":12.1,"low":7.61,"avg":9.495312924,"vwap":9.661233753,"vol":104624,"last":10.16455,"buy":10.16456,"sell":10.21224}}
 816 2011-08-09 19:57:20 <edcba> no wait, buy buy !
 817 2011-08-09 19:57:28 <upb> sell sell
 818 2011-08-09 19:57:34 <upb> so we can buy buy
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 820 2011-08-09 19:57:43 <edcba> i already have bitcoins !
 821 2011-08-09 19:57:51 <upb> i dont:)
 822 2011-08-09 19:57:57 <zyphlar> Sell them and then buy them back
 823 2011-08-09 19:58:02 <zyphlar> Its the only way
 824 2011-08-09 19:58:08 <edcba> yes ! i'll become rich !
 825 2011-08-09 19:58:23 <upb> i sold at 12, bought at 8.25, sold at 10.5
 826 2011-08-09 19:59:19 <zyphlar> What's the coolest thing you bought with bitcoins?
 827 2011-08-09 19:59:32 <upb> usd
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 829 2011-08-09 19:59:55 <zyphlar> I heard jargon bought liquid plutonium
 830 2011-08-09 19:59:59 <FractalUniverse> :)
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 832 2011-08-09 20:00:34 <zyphlar> 0.51 btc
 833 2011-08-09 20:00:50 toffoo has quit ()
 834 2011-08-09 20:01:03 <zyphlar> For like a bagful
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 837 2011-08-09 20:02:22 * edcba sold DoS against bitcoin client
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 839 2011-08-09 20:05:48 <iz> edcba: did you accept payment in bitcoin?
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 843 2011-08-09 20:06:46 <edcba> iz: i did of course but i don't know if it still works
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 845 2011-08-09 20:07:03 <edcba> and dunno if exploitable
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 909 2011-08-09 21:47:32 <m03sizlak> hey, ive launched a HTML5 bitcoin blackjack site, check it out  http://bitjack21.com
 910 2011-08-09 21:48:11 <copumpkin> man, this has to go be the first time I've ever heard of that fucking blackjack site
 911 2011-08-09 21:48:17 <copumpkin> never seen that before
 912 2011-08-09 21:48:24 <copumpkin> :)
 913 2011-08-09 21:50:32 <doublec> it does look pretty nifty however
 914 2011-08-09 21:52:21 <m03sizlak> i just enabled a "honesty" algorithm
 915 2011-08-09 21:52:38 <m03sizlak> allows me to prove that the order of the cards is random and didnt change during the hand
 916 2011-08-09 21:52:43 <m03sizlak> its actually quite cool:
 917 2011-08-09 21:52:51 <m03sizlak> http://bitjack21.com/cryptoproof
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 919 2011-08-09 21:54:23 <copumpkin> yeah, that's neat :)
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 921 2011-08-09 21:54:38 <copumpkin> we did a lot of stuff like that in the iphone jailbreak community back in the day
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 932 2011-08-09 22:04:49 <diki> [21:43:04] <Caesium> anything below and hash[27] wouldn't be zero, so it only works at diff >= 1048576
 933 2011-08-09 22:05:11 <diki> so
 934 2011-08-09 22:05:42 <diki> is it possible that when hash[27] doesnt evaluate to 0, but hash[26] does, is it possible that could solve a block(if it meets target)?
 935 2011-08-09 22:10:44 E-sense has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 936 2011-08-09 22:10:51 <Diablo-D3> http://www.betabeat.com/2011/08/08/mybitcoin-spokesman-finally-comes-forward-what-did-you-think-we-did-after-the-hack-we-got-shitfaced/
 937 2011-08-09 22:11:01 <Diablo-D3> I lol'd.
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 940 2011-08-09 22:12:47 <Diablo-D3> I dont think that MyBitcoin site existed anyhow
 941 2011-08-09 22:14:56 <tcatm> does anybody know if satoshi ever explained why he set the limit to 21M?
 942 2011-08-09 22:15:41 <Diablo-D3> tcatm: approximate number of sha256 hashes that start with a few 0s.
 943 2011-08-09 22:16:00 <tcatm> src?
 944 2011-08-09 22:16:15 <Diablo-D3> there isnt one, its sorta obvious
 945 2011-08-09 22:16:42 <tcatm> that might be, but is that the reason for the limit?
 946 2011-08-09 22:16:50 <jtaylor> ? can't sha256 theretically hash to 0?
 947 2011-08-09 22:16:58 <eastender> my windows defender is detecting one of my miners as CoinMiner is this a false positive?
 948 2011-08-09 22:17:15 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 949 2011-08-09 22:17:27 * TheSeven falls off his chair
 950 2011-08-09 22:18:12 copumpkin has joined
 951 2011-08-09 22:18:27 coderrr has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 952 2011-08-09 22:18:47 coderrr has joined
 953 2011-08-09 22:19:10 b4epoche_ has joined
 954 2011-08-09 22:19:41 pumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 955 2011-08-09 22:20:01 <tcatm> Diablo-D3: how did you approximate that number?
 956 2011-08-09 22:20:41 briareus has quit (Quit: leaving)
 957 2011-08-09 22:20:56 <edcba> jtaylor: so ?
 958 2011-08-09 22:21:30 <jtaylor> I don't get the connection with 21M
 959 2011-08-09 22:22:00 <TheSeven> the 21M limit is probably just what happens if you cut the generated coins into half every n-th block
 960 2011-08-09 22:22:18 <edcba> 21M is sum of some algebric suite
 961 2011-08-09 22:22:39 <tcatm> yes, that's visible from the code. but why 21M and not some other limit?
 962 2011-08-09 22:23:04 <edcba> ie start at (50+25+12+6+3+1)*x
 963 2011-08-09 22:23:16 bender32 has joined
 964 2011-08-09 22:23:23 <edcba> because satoshi liked 50 ?
 965 2011-08-09 22:23:38 <edcba> why 10 minutes ?
 966 2011-08-09 22:23:40 Tracker has joined
 967 2011-08-09 22:23:40 <edcba> because
 968 2011-08-09 22:23:43 <lfm> tcatm: on possibility I noticed, (I dont know if its real) is 21000000.00000000 is an amount that still fits accuratly into a double float.
 969 2011-08-09 22:24:04 <edcba> you can't trust that
 970 2011-08-09 22:24:06 <jtaylor> no
 971 2011-08-09 22:24:13 <jtaylor> it are 2 digits
 972 2011-08-09 22:24:19 <jtaylor> a float can carry ~9 digits
 973 2011-08-09 22:24:26 <edcba> he said double
 974 2011-08-09 22:24:27 <lfm> double float
 975 2011-08-09 22:24:27 <jtaylor> +exponent
 976 2011-08-09 22:24:36 <jtaylor> double float 15 digits then
 977 2011-08-09 22:24:42 <jtaylor> still 2 vs 15
 978 2011-08-09 22:25:02 <edcba> anyway he doesn't use floats nor double
 979 2011-08-09 22:25:17 <lfm> jtaylor: it actually 51 or 52 BITS, not digits you know?
 980 2011-08-09 22:25:17 <edcba> i think it's just more convenient to "sell"
 981 2011-08-09 22:25:33 <TheSeven> double guarantees 63 bits
 982 2011-08-09 22:25:36 <jtaylor> lfm: I know but your apparently talking of digits
 983 2011-08-09 22:25:49 <lfm> jtaylor: look again
 984 2011-08-09 22:25:55 <edcba> ie saying to a novice you'll win 50 bitcoins each block instead of 128
 985 2011-08-09 22:26:02 <jtaylor> you know what float in floating point number stands for?
 986 2011-08-09 22:26:18 <edcba> it's less dense than water ?
 987 2011-08-09 22:26:19 <TheSeven> er, wait, 52 was correct, sorry
 988 2011-08-09 22:26:47 <jtaylor> a now I get what you mean
 989 2011-08-09 22:26:50 <jtaylor> sorry I'm a bit slow
 990 2011-08-09 22:26:53 <edcba> lol
 991 2011-08-09 22:27:36 <lfm> ok, now that we seem to agree, did Satoshi do it on purpose do you think?
 992 2011-08-09 22:28:49 <Eliel> lfm: I'd be inclined to believe it's on purpose.
 993 2011-08-09 22:29:19 <Eliel> I mean, he did do similar things elsewhere. Like the base-58 thing.
 994 2011-08-09 22:29:28 <Eliel> Try to protect against people making mistakes.
 995 2011-08-09 22:29:50 <Diablo-D3> [06:14:27] <tcatm> Diablo-D3: how did you approximate that number?
 996 2011-08-09 22:29:52 <edcba> he did a lot of thing on purpose
 997 2011-08-09 22:29:53 <Eliel> and bad programmers using doubles is almost a given
 998 2011-08-09 22:29:56 <Diablo-D3> more of a question on how satoshi did
 999 2011-08-09 22:29:57 <Diablo-D3> I dont know
1000 2011-08-09 22:30:14 <lfm> Eliel: yes he surely did think thru a lot of things that we are still struggling to think thru ourselves
1001 2011-08-09 22:30:19 <edcba> bitcoin has really been thought a lot
1002 2011-08-09 22:30:32 <Eliel> (or lazy... in case you want to consider lazy programmer to be different from bad)
1003 2011-08-09 22:30:42 <Diablo-D3> it also dictated what number he started with
1004 2011-08-09 22:30:49 <Diablo-D3> such as 50 instead of 100 or whatever
1005 2011-08-09 22:31:14 <edcba> dunno why he didn't choose 100
1006 2011-08-09 22:31:31 <Diablo-D3> edcba: I just said why earlier
1007 2011-08-09 22:31:35 <lfm> ya 100 wouldnt work, it would be too big
1008 2011-08-09 22:31:39 <Eliel> I'm curious, though, where the number 210000 for the mining reward halving cycle comes from.
1009 2011-08-09 22:31:58 <Diablo-D3> he chose an approximate number of sha256 hashes that have enough 0s
1010 2011-08-09 22:32:15 <lfm> it maybe got rounded off a little for humans
1011 2011-08-09 22:32:51 <jtaylor> Diablo-D3: maybe I'm slow again, but I don't see how the number of 0's in a hash has something to do with it?
1012 2011-08-09 22:33:02 <jtaylor> isn't it random?
1013 2011-08-09 22:33:13 <Diablo-D3> you do realize how mining works, right?
1014 2011-08-09 22:33:24 <jtaylor> yes
1015 2011-08-09 22:33:34 <edcba> but how rewards are connected ???
1016 2011-08-09 22:33:41 <Diablo-D3> he chose a number that works
1017 2011-08-09 22:33:59 <edcba> reward is not related to difficulty afaik
1018 2011-08-09 22:34:05 <Diablo-D3> too low, and there are a lot of sha256s that could have been valid
1019 2011-08-09 22:34:06 p0s- has joined
1020 2011-08-09 22:34:13 <lfm> he starts with 21e14 as aprrox 2^51 the pics 8 bigits for fractional part (arbitrary?
1021 2011-08-09 22:34:16 <Diablo-D3> too high, and mining may never complete
1022 2011-08-09 22:34:37 <edcba> he could have started with diff 1
1023 2011-08-09 22:34:41 p0s- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1024 2011-08-09 22:34:43 <Diablo-D3> he did start with diff 1.
1025 2011-08-09 22:34:52 <jtaylor> you mean he took a reasonable number of zeros for the hardware at the time and that coincided with 21 M?
1026 2011-08-09 22:34:53 <Diablo-D3> but he didnt know what future diffs would reach
1027 2011-08-09 22:35:01 <Diablo-D3> jtaylor: vaguely
1028 2011-08-09 22:35:07 <Diablo-D3> its a ballpark figure
1029 2011-08-09 22:35:21 <Diablo-D3> he only needed to get in the right ballpark
1030 2011-08-09 22:35:30 erus` has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0.1/20110707182747])
1031 2011-08-09 22:35:40 <lfm> he prolly benchmarked his own cpu and said, that is 1 (about)
1032 2011-08-09 22:35:41 <edcba> there is nothing related between difficulty and total bitcoins
1033 2011-08-09 22:35:54 <edcba> they are independant
1034 2011-08-09 22:35:55 <Diablo-D3> edcba: not true.
1035 2011-08-09 22:36:11 <edcba> so give me the formula :)
1036 2011-08-09 22:36:15 p0s has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1037 2011-08-09 22:36:17 <Diablo-D3> if difficulty spikes too high that we, say, need 255 binary 0s first, we're doomed.
1038 2011-08-09 22:36:36 <lfm> then switch to sha512
1039 2011-08-09 22:36:47 <Diablo-D3> lfm: nope
1040 2011-08-09 22:36:53 <lfm> why not?
1041 2011-08-09 22:36:56 <Diablo-D3> you cannot make changes that require new clients.
1042 2011-08-09 22:36:57 <edcba> difficulty regulates block time, rewards are function of block count
1043 2011-08-09 22:37:05 <edcba> so they are not dependant
1044 2011-08-09 22:37:10 <Diablo-D3> edcba: time is money.
1045 2011-08-09 22:37:14 <jtaylor> you can, you just need enough rollo9ut time
1046 2011-08-09 22:37:14 <edcba> ...
1047 2011-08-09 22:37:32 <Eliel> Diablo-D3: in an event when previous clients would stop functioning anyway, you can pretty much make sure the network upgrades.
1048 2011-08-09 22:37:32 <lfm> not a danger anyway barring math breakthroughs
1049 2011-08-09 22:37:32 <wasabi2> No. Becuase any new clients wuold be incomptible with old clients.
1050 2011-08-09 22:37:38 <wasabi2> Hello typoes.
1051 2011-08-09 22:37:41 <edcba> still having some diff starting at 1000 woulnd't chante total amount of bitcoin or whatever
1052 2011-08-09 22:37:42 <jtaylor> we need 250 zeros now, so within a year all clients should update, that should be possible
1053 2011-08-09 22:37:57 copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1054 2011-08-09 22:37:59 <wasabi2> jtaylor: An old client would be unable to verify blocks of new clients.
1055 2011-08-09 22:38:02 <Diablo-D3> edcba: why start at 1000? the diff can only go up
1056 2011-08-09 22:38:09 <edcba> only ? :)
1057 2011-08-09 22:38:21 <lfm> it goes up and down actually
1058 2011-08-09 22:38:24 <Diablo-D3> since diff 1 was one of satoshi's cpus? yes.
1059 2011-08-09 22:38:37 <lfm> very roughly
1060 2011-08-09 22:38:40 <jtaylor> wasabi2: a client can do both and on a certain agreed block they all switch, and who doesn't gets excluded from the network?
1061 2011-08-09 22:38:43 <edcba> like when the guy stopped mining with amazon ec2
1062 2011-08-09 22:38:43 <Diablo-D3> to drop below diff 1 on the main network, EVERYONE would have to stop mining.
1063 2011-08-09 22:38:50 <edcba> he went up lol
1064 2011-08-09 22:39:02 <lfm> it actually WAS below 1 for the first year
1065 2011-08-09 22:39:08 <edcba> oh yes of course it can't go below 1
1066 2011-08-09 22:39:10 <Diablo-D3> lfm: vaguely.
1067 2011-08-09 22:39:24 <wasabi2> I supose.
1068 2011-08-09 22:39:33 <edcba> or i mean below 1 bit in distance
1069 2011-08-09 22:39:33 <Eliel> you could also do a soft upgrade. First start preparing the network for the move, so that all new clients support the new hash and when majority of the miners support that, switch.
1070 2011-08-09 22:39:38 <lfm> well actual diff pinned to 1 but the actual rate was below that
1071 2011-08-09 22:39:39 <Diablo-D3> lfm: his machine wasnt on 24/7
1072 2011-08-09 22:39:47 <lfm> right
1073 2011-08-09 22:40:07 <Eliel> if the miners are mostly onboard, people are basically forced to migrate to the new system.
1074 2011-08-09 22:40:49 <lfm> a single ATI 5770 GPU like mine by itself would make for a difficulty of 45 I figure
1075 2011-08-09 22:41:13 <Diablo-D3> well do the math lfm
1076 2011-08-09 22:41:30 <Diablo-D3> 100mhash does 2^32 hashes in 45 seconds
1077 2011-08-09 22:41:54 <Diablo-D3> 2012 blocks are supposed to be done in 2 weeks
1078 2011-08-09 22:42:42 <Diablo-D3> thats 1209600 seconds
1079 2011-08-09 22:43:05 <edcba> 1 block is supposed to do in 10 minutes ?
1080 2011-08-09 22:43:06 <Diablo-D3> so a diff of 26880 just with one 5850
1081 2011-08-09 22:43:10 <Diablo-D3> edcba: yes
1082 2011-08-09 22:43:12 <edcba> isn't easier to calc ? :)
1083 2011-08-09 22:43:31 <Diablo-D3> its easier to calc when the two numbers arent near each other.
1084 2011-08-09 22:43:34 <Diablo-D3> er sorry
1085 2011-08-09 22:43:42 <Diablo-D3> its 26880 with one 100mhash card
1086 2011-08-09 22:44:03 <lfm> well easier to calc 600 seconds for a nominal block
1087 2011-08-09 22:44:14 <Diablo-D3> its 101069 with a 5850
1088 2011-08-09 22:44:24 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,diff
1089 2011-08-09 22:44:25 <gribble> 1888786.7053531
1090 2011-08-09 22:44:58 abragin has quit ()
1091 2011-08-09 22:45:16 <Diablo-D3> that means we have about 7 ghash if my math is right
1092 2011-08-09 22:45:32 <jtaylor> total?
1093 2011-08-09 22:45:36 <Diablo-D3> at least, I should be in the right ballpark
1094 2011-08-09 22:45:41 <Diablo-D3> jtaylor: yeah
1095 2011-08-09 22:45:47 <jtaylor> network hashrate is ~13 TH
1096 2011-08-09 22:45:57 <Diablo-D3> yeah, Im in the right ballpark
1097 2011-08-09 22:46:10 <jtaylor> 3 orders of magnitude a ballpark?
1098 2011-08-09 22:46:15 <Diablo-D3> er
1099 2011-08-09 22:46:26 <lfm> er 7 mhash?
1100 2011-08-09 22:46:27 <Diablo-D3> I think my math is wrong somewhere.
1101 2011-08-09 22:47:58 <Diablo-D3> 45 seconds for a diff 1 block at 100 mhash
1102 2011-08-09 22:48:01 <lfm> ;;calc 2^32/600
1103 2011-08-09 22:48:01 <gribble> (2^32) / 600 = 7,158,278.83
1104 2011-08-09 22:48:20 <jtaylor> total hashrate/difficulty/100mhash?
1105 2011-08-09 22:48:30 <jtaylor> would make 0.06 difficulty if I did not make typos
1106 2011-08-09 22:48:32 <lfm> 45/600
1107 2011-08-09 22:48:38 <lfm> ;;calc 45/600
1108 2011-08-09 22:48:39 <gribble> 45 / 600 = 0.075
1109 2011-08-09 22:48:56 <lfm> ;;calc 600/45
1110 2011-08-09 22:48:57 <gribble> 600 / 45 = 13.3333333
1111 2011-08-09 22:50:15 <Diablo-D3> heh
1112 2011-08-09 22:50:53 <lfm> difficulty 13 would be one gpu dominating the whole net
1113 2011-08-09 22:50:53 <Diablo-D3> oh wait, 1209600 is wrong
1114 2011-08-09 22:51:01 <Diablo-D3> its 172800
1115 2011-08-09 22:51:06 <Diablo-D3> no wait no
1116 2011-08-09 22:51:17 <Diablo-D3> 60*60*24*7*2 = 1209600
1117 2011-08-09 22:51:37 <lfm> ok thats minutes
1118 2011-08-09 22:51:44 <Diablo-D3> actually hell, even just 10 minutes
1119 2011-08-09 22:51:53 <lfm> now divide by 10 for 10 miniute blocks
1120 2011-08-09 22:52:27 <Diablo-D3> wait no, 10 minutes is retarded
1121 2011-08-09 22:52:37 <Diablo-D3> I want to know how often it creates a diff 1 block
1122 2011-08-09 22:52:41 <Diablo-D3> its every 45 seconds
1123 2011-08-09 22:52:47 <lfm> oh ok yes
1124 2011-08-09 22:53:28 <Diablo-D3> so shouldnt it be 1888786 / 600 * 45?
1125 2011-08-09 22:53:37 <Diablo-D3> that gives me 141685 * 100 mhash
1126 2011-08-09 22:53:38 <lfm> and if you want it to take 600 seconds, set the diff to 13.3
1127 2011-08-09 22:54:00 <Diablo-D3> which is... 14 thash?
1128 2011-08-09 22:54:10 <lfm> no 100 ghash
1129 2011-08-09 22:54:31 <Diablo-D3> 14168.5 ghash, 14.1 thash
1130 2011-08-09 22:54:36 <lfm> 14 thash is diff 1.6million
1131 2011-08-09 22:54:50 <lfm> isnt it?
1132 2011-08-09 22:54:56 HaltingState has joined
1133 2011-08-09 22:54:56 HaltingState has quit (Changing host)
1134 2011-08-09 22:54:56 HaltingState has joined
1135 2011-08-09 22:55:23 <Diablo-D3> lfm: not with my math
1136 2011-08-09 22:55:25 shadders has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1137 2011-08-09 22:55:39 <lfm> currently for difficulty of 1.88879e+06 is overall 1.35207e+13 hash/s
1138 2011-08-09 22:55:48 <owowo> !bc,estimate
1139 2011-08-09 22:56:18 <Diablo-D3> btw apparently its 43 seconds not 45
1140 2011-08-09 22:56:26 <lfm> ;;bc,nethash
1141 2011-08-09 22:56:27 <gribble> 12401.866387646673
1142 2011-08-09 22:56:44 <lfm> dunno what units gribble is using
1143 2011-08-09 22:56:46 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc.diff
1144 2011-08-09 22:56:48 <gribble> Error: "bc.diff" is not a valid command.
1145 2011-08-09 22:56:50 <Diablo-D3> er
1146 2011-08-09 22:56:52 <Diablo-D3> ;;bc,diff
1147 2011-08-09 22:56:53 <gribble> 1888786.7053531
1148 2011-08-09 22:57:13 <lfm> ;;bc,estimate
1149 2011-08-09 22:57:13 <gribble> 1830502.27179797
1150 2011-08-09 22:57:22 <lfm> ;;bc,spotestimate
1151 2011-08-09 22:57:22 <gribble> 1732494.28941
1152 2011-08-09 22:57:33 <Diablo-D3> (1 888 786.7053531 / 600) * 43 = 135 363.047
1153 2011-08-09 22:57:37 <owowo> ;;bc,estimate
1154 2011-08-09 22:57:38 <gribble> 1830502.27179797
1155 2011-08-09 22:57:39 HaltingState has left ()
1156 2011-08-09 22:57:47 <owowo> ;;bc,eta
1157 2011-08-09 22:57:47 <gribble> Error: "bc,eta" is not a valid command.
1158 2011-08-09 22:58:02 <Diablo-D3> (135 363.047 / 10) / 1 000 = 13.5363047
1159 2011-08-09 22:58:09 DukeOfURL has joined
1160 2011-08-09 22:58:11 <Diablo-D3> so there
1161 2011-08-09 22:58:15 <owowo> ;;bc,diffchange
1162 2011-08-09 22:58:16 <gribble> -3.08581341608 % estimated difficulty change this period
1163 2011-08-09 22:58:21 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,estimate] /600 * 43
1164 2011-08-09 22:58:22 <gribble> (1,830,502.27179797 / 600) * 43 = 131,185.996
1165 2011-08-09 22:58:22 <owowo> ;o)
1166 2011-08-09 22:58:23 <Diablo-D3> to maintain the current diff, you need 13.5 thash.
1167 2011-08-09 22:58:32 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,spotestimate] /600 * 43
1168 2011-08-09 22:58:33 <gribble> (1,732,494.28941 / 600) * 43 = 124,162.091
1169 2011-08-09 22:58:50 <Diablo-D3> there. I did the fucking maths.
1170 2011-08-09 22:58:54 <lfm> ;;bc,nethash
1171 2011-08-09 22:58:54 <gribble> 12401.866387646673
1172 2011-08-09 22:59:03 <owowo> ;;bc,timetonext
1173 2011-08-09 22:59:04 <gribble> 5 days, 23 hours, 31 minutes, and 50 seconds
1174 2011-08-09 22:59:06 <Diablo-D3> lfm: thats probably current actual
1175 2011-08-09 22:59:12 <Diablo-D3> remember, the estimate is lower than current
1176 2011-08-09 22:59:30 <Diablo-D3> oh hey
1177 2011-08-09 22:59:41 <Diablo-D3> 12401 / 10 / 1000 = 12.4 ghash.
1178 2011-08-09 22:59:51 <Diablo-D3> now I know how gribble estimates current
1179 2011-08-09 22:59:56 <lfm> estimates can vary widley up and down especially at the start of a new difficulty
1180 2011-08-09 22:59:57 ee133 has joined
1181 2011-08-09 23:00:07 <Diablo-D3> so I like my figure better
1182 2011-08-09 23:00:09 <Diablo-D3> its 13.5 thash
1183 2011-08-09 23:00:31 <Diablo-D3> [06:40:13] <jtaylor> network hashrate is ~13 TH+
1184 2011-08-09 23:00:38 <Diablo-D3> so. there.
1185 2011-08-09 23:00:49 ee1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1186 2011-08-09 23:01:09 <lfm> so that ;;bc,nethash is in ghash/sec
1187 2011-08-09 23:01:09 ee1 has joined
1188 2011-08-09 23:01:17 <Diablo-D3> yes
1189 2011-08-09 23:01:25 <Diablo-D3> but it means you can calculate it yourself
1190 2011-08-09 23:01:33 Graet has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1191 2011-08-09 23:01:47 <Diablo-D3> (2^32) + 65 536 = 4 295 032 832 = diff 1
1192 2011-08-09 23:02:04 MrTiggr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1193 2011-08-09 23:02:10 b4epoche_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1194 2011-08-09 23:02:26 <Diablo-D3> / 100m = 42.9503283
1195 2011-08-09 23:02:53 FractalUniverse has quit (Quit: ZZZzzzz)
1196 2011-08-09 23:03:31 <Diablo-D3> current diff / 10 minutes * that seconds / 10 / 1000 (->ghash->thash) = thash needed to maintain that diff
1197 2011-08-09 23:03:54 <Diablo-D3> ;;calc [bc,estimate] / 600 * 43 / 10 / 1000
1198 2011-08-09 23:03:55 <gribble> (((1,830,081.80988365 / 600) * 43) / 10) / 1,000 = 13.1155863
1199 2011-08-09 23:04:01 <lfm>  1.35207e+13 hash/s
1200 2011-08-09 23:04:01 <Diablo-D3> ;;calc [bc,diff] / 600 * 43 / 10 / 1000
1201 2011-08-09 23:04:02 <gribble> (((1,888,786.7053531 / 600) * 43) / 10) / 1,000 = 13.5363047
1202 2011-08-09 23:04:14 <Diablo-D3> so there.
1203 2011-08-09 23:04:16 copumpkin has joined
1204 2011-08-09 23:04:21 <Diablo-D3> Diablo's magic thash calculator.
1205 2011-08-09 23:04:25 ee133 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1206 2011-08-09 23:04:32 <lfm> whats 43 from?
1207 2011-08-09 23:04:43 <Diablo-D3> [06:56:13] <Diablo-D3> (2^32) + 65 536 = 4 295 032 832 = diff 1
1208 2011-08-09 23:04:47 <Diablo-D3> [06:56:52] <Diablo-D3> / 100m = 42.9503283
1209 2011-08-09 23:05:03 b4epoche_ has joined
1210 2011-08-09 23:05:08 <lfm> oh
1211 2011-08-09 23:05:13 <Diablo-D3> 100 mhash takes 43 seconds to do a diff 1
1212 2011-08-09 23:05:24 <Diablo-D3> 1 ghash takes 4.3 seconds
1213 2011-08-09 23:05:36 TheZimm has joined
1214 2011-08-09 23:07:14 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,diff]/2^32/600
1215 2011-08-09 23:07:15 <gribble> (1,888,786.7053531 / (2^32)) / 600 = 7.32945707 * 10^(-7)
1216 2011-08-09 23:07:39 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,diff]*2^32/600
1217 2011-08-09 23:07:40 <gribble> (1,888,786.7053531 * (2^32)) / 600 = 1.35204619 * 10^(13)
1218 2011-08-09 23:07:52 mosi has quit (out!~mos@dongs.dtegaming.com|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1219 2011-08-09 23:08:07 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,diff]*2^32/600/1e12
1220 2011-08-09 23:08:07 <gribble> ((1,888,786.7053531 * (2^32)) / 600) / 1e12 = 13.5204619
1221 2011-08-09 23:08:52 <Diablo-D3> ;;calc [bc,diff] / 2577019.7
1222 2011-08-09 23:08:53 <gribble> 1,888,786.7053531 / 2,577,019.7 = 0.732934523
1223 2011-08-09 23:08:57 <Diablo-D3> derp
1224 2011-08-09 23:09:49 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1225 2011-08-09 23:09:52 <Diablo-D3> ;;calc [bc,diff] / 2.5770197
1226 2011-08-09 23:09:53 <gribble> 1,888,786.7053531 / 2.5770197 = 732,934.523
1227 2011-08-09 23:10:00 <Diablo-D3> nope thats not right
1228 2011-08-09 23:10:32 <lfm> ;;calc 600*1e12/2^32
1229 2011-08-09 23:10:33 <gribble> (600 * 1e12) / (2^32) = 139,698.386
1230 2011-08-09 23:10:41 TheZimm has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1231 2011-08-09 23:11:12 <Diablo-D3> ((2^32) + 65 536) / 1 000 000 000 = 4.29503283 = diff 1 at 1 ghash
1232 2011-08-09 23:11:27 <Diablo-D3> (((2^32) + 65 536) / 1 000 000 000) / 1 000 = 0.00429503283 = diff 1 at 1 thash
1233 2011-08-09 23:11:44 cypherpunk01 has joined
1234 2011-08-09 23:11:50 <Diablo-D3> (600 * (((2^32) + 65 536) / 1 000 000 000)) / 1 000 = 2.5770197 = diff 1s at 1 thash in ten minutes
1235 2011-08-09 23:12:13 <Diablo-D3> ;;calc [bc,diff] / 2.5770197
1236 2011-08-09 23:12:14 <gribble> 1,888,786.7053531 / 2.5770197 = 732,934.523
1237 2011-08-09 23:12:22 <Diablo-D3> we sure as hell arent doing 732 thash.
1238 2011-08-09 23:12:55 <lfm> is 2^32 + 2^15 right?
1239 2011-08-09 23:13:00 <lfm> is 2^32 + 2^16 right?
1240 2011-08-09 23:13:04 <Diablo-D3> yes
1241 2011-08-09 23:13:57 <lfm> i use 2^32/600
1242 2011-08-09 23:14:25 <lfm> ratio of diff 1 hash to seconds
1243 2011-08-09 23:14:44 <lfm> its not exact but close enuf for me
1244 2011-08-09 23:14:44 <Diablo-D3> that seems too simple
1245 2011-08-09 23:15:21 <Diablo-D3> ;;calc [bc,diff] / 7158388.05
1246 2011-08-09 23:15:22 <gribble> 1,888,786.7053531 / 7,158,388.05 = 0.263856429
1247 2011-08-09 23:15:31 <Diablo-D3> fail.
1248 2011-08-09 23:15:37 <lfm> ;;calc2^32/600
1249 2011-08-09 23:15:37 <gribble> Error: "calc2^32/600" is not a valid command.
1250 2011-08-09 23:15:40 <lfm> ;;calc 2^32/600
1251 2011-08-09 23:15:41 <gribble> (2^32) / 600 = 7,158,278.83
1252 2011-08-09 23:16:24 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,diff] *  7158388.05
1253 2011-08-09 23:16:25 <gribble> 1,888,786.7053531 * 7,158,388.05 = 1.35206682 * 10^(13)
1254 2011-08-09 23:16:39 <lfm> multiply
1255 2011-08-09 23:16:53 <Diablo-D3> also, derp
1256 2011-08-09 23:16:56 <Diablo-D3> [07:05:53] <Diablo-D3> (((2^32) + 65 536) / 1 000 000 000) / 1 000 = 0.00429503283 = diff 1 at 1 thash
1257 2011-08-09 23:17:02 <Diablo-D3> no, it'd be * 1000
1258 2011-08-09 23:17:25 <Diablo-D3> ;;calc [bc,diff] * 2577019.7
1259 2011-08-09 23:17:26 <gribble> 1,888,786.7053531 * 2,577,019.7 = 4.86744055 * 10^(12)
1260 2011-08-09 23:17:44 <Diablo-D3> thats not helpful!
1261 2011-08-09 23:18:14 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,diff] *  7158388.05
1262 2011-08-09 23:18:15 <gribble> 1,888,786.7053531 * 7,158,388.05 = 1.35206682 * 10^(13)
1263 2011-08-09 23:18:22 eastender2 has joined
1264 2011-08-09 23:18:43 <Diablo-D3> 600 * (((2^32) + 65 536) / 1 000 000 000) * 1 000 = 2 577 019.7
1265 2011-08-09 23:19:23 <Diablo-D3> so 1 thash does 2577019.7 diff 1 blocks in ten minutes
1266 2011-08-09 23:20:07 squeamish has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1267 2011-08-09 23:20:09 eastender has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1268 2011-08-09 23:20:53 <lfm> ;;calc 1e12/2^32
1269 2011-08-09 23:20:54 <gribble> 1e12 / (2^32) = 232.830644
1270 2011-08-09 23:21:00 Graet has joined
1271 2011-08-09 23:21:05 <Diablo-D3> wait my math is still wrong somewhere.
1272 2011-08-09 23:21:08 Graet is now known as Guest86299
1273 2011-08-09 23:21:16 <lfm> ;;calc 1e12/2^32*600
1274 2011-08-09 23:21:16 <gribble> (1e12 / (2^32)) * 600 = 139,698.386
1275 2011-08-09 23:21:58 <lfm> should be close
1276 2011-08-09 23:22:43 MrTiggr has joined
1277 2011-08-09 23:22:47 * Diablo-D3 tries this AGAIN
1278 2011-08-09 23:23:27 <Diablo-D3> ((2^32) + 65536) / 1000000000000 = 0.00429503283 = 1 thash doing a diff 1
1279 2011-08-09 23:23:59 <Diablo-D3> ((2^32) + 65536) / 1000000000000 * 600 = diff 1s done by 1 thash in ten minutes
1280 2011-08-09 23:24:12 <Diablo-D3> = 2.5770197
1281 2011-08-09 23:24:45 <Diablo-D3> hrm.
1282 2011-08-09 23:25:31 c00w has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1283 2011-08-09 23:25:46 <Diablo-D3> no, that should be 600 / ((2^32) + 65536) / 1000000000000)
1284 2011-08-09 23:26:09 <Diablo-D3> maybe.
1285 2011-08-09 23:26:48 dr_win has joined
1286 2011-08-09 23:27:07 dr_win_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1287 2011-08-09 23:27:09 <Diablo-D3> I hate algebra _so much_
1288 2011-08-09 23:27:22 <Diablo-D3> it takes 0.004 seconds for 1 thash to do a diff 1
1289 2011-08-09 23:27:38 <lfm> should be 2^32 + 65537
1290 2011-08-09 23:27:49 <Diablo-D3> shuddup lfm
1291 2011-08-09 23:28:02 <Diablo-D3> so 600 / that = 139969.255
1292 2011-08-09 23:28:05 <Diablo-D3> thus
1293 2011-08-09 23:28:12 <copumpkin> Diablo-D3: what's wrong with algebra?
1294 2011-08-09 23:28:14 * copumpkin comforts algebra
1295 2011-08-09 23:28:15 <Diablo-D3> ;;calc [bc,diff] / 139969.255
1296 2011-08-09 23:28:16 <gribble> 1,888,786.7053531 / 139,969.255 = 13.4942971
1297 2011-08-09 23:28:19 <Diablo-D3> THERE
1298 2011-08-09 23:28:22 <Diablo-D3> THERE GODDAMNIT
1299 2011-08-09 23:28:25 <Diablo-D3> ONE FUCKING NUMBER
1300 2011-08-09 23:28:28 * copumpkin backs away slowly
1301 2011-08-09 23:29:00 <lfm> rofl
1302 2011-08-09 23:29:20 TheZimm has joined
1303 2011-08-09 23:29:46 <Diablo-D3> no inaccuracies
1304 2011-08-09 23:29:57 agricocb has joined
1305 2011-08-09 23:30:01 <lfm> off by one still
1306 2011-08-09 23:30:22 clr_ has joined
1307 2011-08-09 23:30:34 clr_ is now known as c00w
1308 2011-08-09 23:34:07 eastender2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1309 2011-08-09 23:35:15 <lfm> ;;calc 1e12/(2^32+2^16+1)*600
1310 2011-08-09 23:35:15 <gribble> (1e12 / ((2^32) + (2^16) + 1)) * 600 = 139,696.255
1311 2011-08-09 23:35:44 anatolbroder has joined
1312 2011-08-09 23:37:12 sytse has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1313 2011-08-09 23:38:44 TD has quit (Quit: TD)
1314 2011-08-09 23:41:08 mmoya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1315 2011-08-09 23:42:02 <Diablo-D3> lfm: no
1316 2011-08-09 23:42:08 <Diablo-D3> pretty sure its 65536
1317 2011-08-09 23:42:09 tower has quit (Disconnected by services)
1318 2011-08-09 23:42:27 tower has joined
1319 2011-08-09 23:43:01 <Diablo-D3> so Im thinking
1320 2011-08-09 23:43:11 <Diablo-D3> 1.8 million * 4.3 billion / 600
1321 2011-08-09 23:43:34 <lfm> ;;calc 2^256/(2^224-2^208)-2^32
1322 2011-08-09 23:43:34 <gribble> ((2^256) / ((2^224) - (2^208))) - (2^32) = 65,537
1323 2011-08-09 23:44:13 <Diablo-D3> lfm: because its 2^256 - 1.
1324 2011-08-09 23:44:26 <Diablo-D3> counting starts at one.
1325 2011-08-09 23:44:32 <Diablo-D3> er zero
1326 2011-08-09 23:44:32 <lfm> 2^256 possible hashes
1327 2011-08-09 23:44:59 <Diablo-D3> yes, but only one of them gets you into willy wonka's chocolate factory
1328 2011-08-09 23:45:19 <lfm> unless sha256 somehow excludes possible zero result or something but I dont think it does
1329 2011-08-09 23:45:35 <Diablo-D3> yeah but you're doing + 1 at the wrong spot
1330 2011-08-09 23:46:07 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin itself defines it as 2^32 + 65536 period
1331 2011-08-09 23:46:10 <lfm> the 000ffff000... is 2^224-2^208 right?
1332 2011-08-09 23:46:23 <Diablo-D3> no
1333 2011-08-09 23:46:31 <Diablo-D3> otherwise it'd be 00 10000 000
1334 2011-08-09 23:46:37 <lfm> subtract
1335 2011-08-09 23:46:47 <Diablo-D3> ff is 255 not 256, for example
1336 2011-08-09 23:47:06 toffoo has joined
1337 2011-08-09 23:47:09 <lfm> ya 2^256 possible hashes
1338 2011-08-09 23:47:20 knotwork has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1339 2011-08-09 23:47:30 <lfm> from 0 to fff...fff
1340 2011-08-09 23:47:50 <lfm> 256 possible values in a byte
1341 2011-08-09 23:48:01 <Diablo-D3> anyhow
1342 2011-08-09 23:48:07 <Diablo-D3> bitcoin defines diff 1 very specifically
1343 2011-08-09 23:48:11 <Diablo-D3> your argument is invalid
1344 2011-08-09 23:48:26 <lfm> defines diff 1 as the 000ffff000 value only
1345 2011-08-09 23:48:42 <Diablo-D3> yes, but Im still sleeping with your mom.
1346 2011-08-09 23:48:52 <lfm> hehe have fun
1347 2011-08-09 23:48:58 <Diablo-D3> so
1348 2011-08-09 23:49:20 <Diablo-D3> ((((1 888 786.7053531 * ((2^32) + 65 536)) / 600) / 1 000) / 1 000) / 1 000 = 13 520.6682
1349 2011-08-09 23:49:32 <Diablo-D3> er
1350 2011-08-09 23:49:39 <Diablo-D3> 1888786.7053531 * (2^32 + 65536) / 600 / 1000 / 1000 / 1000 / 1000
1351 2011-08-09 23:49:46 <Diablo-D3> so there
1352 2011-08-09 23:49:53 <Diablo-D3> the math conceptualized better
1353 2011-08-09 23:50:06 <Diablo-D3> current diff * hashes in a diff 1 / 600 seconds / 1 thash
1354 2011-08-09 23:50:09 <lfm> ;;[bc,diff]*600e12/(2^32+2^16)
1355 2011-08-09 23:50:09 <gribble> Error: "1888786.7053531" is not a valid command.
1356 2011-08-09 23:50:18 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,diff]*600e12/(2^32+2^16)
1357 2011-08-09 23:50:18 <gribble> (1,888,786.7053531 * 600e12) / ((2^32) + (2^16)) = 2.63856428 * 10^(11)
1358 2011-08-09 23:50:32 Superbest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1359 2011-08-09 23:50:49 sytse has joined
1360 2011-08-09 23:51:00 <lfm> oh now I did it backwards again
1361 2011-08-09 23:51:16 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,diff]*(2^32+2^16)/600e12
1362 2011-08-09 23:51:17 <gribble> (1,888,786.7053531 * ((2^32) + (2^16))) / 600e12 = 13.5206682
1363 2011-08-09 23:51:23 nhodges has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1364 2011-08-09 23:52:02 asuk_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1365 2011-08-09 23:52:16 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,estimate]*(2^32+2^16)/600e12
1366 2011-08-09 23:52:16 <gribble> (1,828,748.57884197 * ((2^32) + (2^16))) / 600e12 = 13.090892
1367 2011-08-09 23:53:53 <lfm> ;;calc [bc,diff]/[bc,spotestimate]
1368 2011-08-09 23:53:54 <gribble> 1,888,786.7053531 / 1,741,481.15485 = 1.08458636
1369 2011-08-09 23:58:52 Incitatus has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)